# Beginner Wiring Question



## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

Hello All,
So I purchased a 1960's Japanese Bass and the tone knob seems to do nothing. I have been looking at pictures and videos and there seems to be lots of wiring options. I am excited to start my soldering career but could use some guidance from the vast wisdom of the forum. Here is a picture.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Is there a capacitor on there that I can't see? If not that'd probably do it


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

There's a capacitor missing. You can see where it was soldered to the body of the control.


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

There is a little green one under the orange wire. Here is a better picture. But from my limited research there seems to be a lack of grounding.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Shouldn't one of the lugs be soldered to the housing of the pot? IIRC, one lug soldered to housing, one lug to switch, one lug with cap to housing. It's been a while though....


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

Honestly, I don't know. This is my first night ever looking into how guitars are wired. I am hoping to learn lots.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

is the capacitor attached to the middle lug or just chillin? It looks like something was grounded on the back of the pot that isn't anymore.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Also if you take a picture of the full wiring it might be easier to tell what goes where


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

Here's a pic of the whole thing.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

I'm by no means a wiring expert so I could be very wrong, but I think if you make sure the capacitor is grounded on the back of that pot, and soldered on the lug that it looks to be attached to already it should work.
If it is attached on the middle lug, detach it from there and solder it in the clump of solder already on the pot.


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

Ok, So I cut the capacitor from the middle lung and held it on the back of the pot. Tone seems to be working but there is a notable buzz when I turn the tone up.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Honestly it's a pretty shoddy wiring job (I'm not even sure if the volume pot is grounded). If I were you I would love right in and rewire it. The worst thing that could happen is you cook the pots and get stuck...in which case new pots and a switch professionally installed doesn't cost an arm and a leg.


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

Cool, I am all for trying it. Where would I get an accurate wiring diagram?


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Muskoka Man said:


> Ok, So I cut the capacitor from the middle lung and held it on the back of the pot. Tone seems to be working but there is a notable buzz when I turn the tone up.


Is it held on or soldered on? It may make it buzz more if you are touching wires.


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

I was holding the capacitor with pliers. I found my soldering iron but no solder wire.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Muskoka Man said:


> I was holding the capacitor with pliers. I found my soldering iron but no solder wire.


There is solder on the back of that pot already that will probabaly work.


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

soldered on and still buzzing. I am guessing the lack of grounding is an issue?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Can you take a clear closeup of what the wiring on the tone pot looks like now.


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

I added some paper behind it to reduce glare.


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2018)

Solder the black wire to the same lug as the orange wire.
eg;


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Muskoka Man said:


> I added some paper behind it to reduce glare.
> 
> View attachment 191185


Nice pic!.. and very helpful. Thanks
While you are doing the change suggested by @laristotle, you might want to consider re-soldering the ground connection on the output jack...
"strike while the iron is hot" sort of thing..LOL I would remove all the old wire and solder from the joint and start fresh.










You might enjoy this...





Let us know if the buzzing has stopped.

Cheers

Dave


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

Thanks Everyone,
I'll be getting some solder supplies this afternoon and cleaning this all up. While I have your attention the toggle switches for the pick ups are super loose. I used contact cleaner to help with the crackle but is it possible to replace them? If so where would I get one?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

You could start here and go down a few rabbit holes...

guitar rocker switch - Google Search

I checked StewMac..no luck.

You could also make up a plate and mount 2 new mini toggles (or rocker switches or whatever).

Something like this...


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## Guest (Apr 8, 2018)

Not sure where you can find replacements, but, as greco points out, retro-fit some modern switches into it?
If you have patience and feel that you can restore them, I found this;


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

Okay , First soldering attempt down. I suddenly have massive respect for people that can do this accurately and neatly. Good news, volume level has improved. However, still buzz when I turn up the tone.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

You would find soldering lighter gauge wires much easier. 
About 22 gauge or so hookup wire is excellent

Look for places where the ground might be touching the "hot" side and make sure there is no contact. 

Is the green wire touching the terminal with the red wire?


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

Yes, lighter wire would be easier. I was rolling with what I had around the house. I will get some smaller wire this week and redo some of this to make it neater. But no, the green isn't touching the red wire terminal. I am also learning its hard to take decent photos of small detailed items.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Don't worry to much about the photos.

When you are testing the controls, are you putting the pickguard back over the control cavity (with no screws)? Try that...see if it buzzes less ..or at all.

Cheers

Dave


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

Update: So, I have just re-done the ground wire with more appropriate gauge wire. And, I did a much neater job with the solder. The buzz out of the tone pot is almost non existent. 
I assume the next step in my solder career is to start building pedals.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Now that you are getting skilled and confident, you might want to change the tone pot for a new one someday. Unless you find the source of the buzzing before doing that. 

Does the amplitude or nature of the "buzzing" change when you turn the knob on the tone pot? 

Is the tone pot changing the tone in the manner you would typically find on a guitar? 

I'm also wondering if the cap might be failing...I just don't know what that would sound like.

This is a mystery to me.


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

The tone knob seems to work but I find the range of tone change is less than expected. Yes, the amplitude of the buzz does change when I turn the knob. I would totally try changing the pot and resistor in the near future.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Muskoka Man said:


> pot and resistor


"Pot" is short for "potentiometer" ...which is a variable resistor

The other component is a "Cap" ...short for "capacitor" 

Just out of curiosity, what is written on the capacitor?

It should be a number& letter combination something like this


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I found this series of articles helpful in the past. Just to get a grounding (pun intended) in the subject.

How Do Volume and Tone Pots Work For Guitar? - Lindy Fralin Pickups

and for the full list

Tech Tips - Lindy Fralin Pickups


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

davetcan said:


> grounding (pun intended)


'Intended' and extremely important in all regards.

The source of much frustration when not working well... followed by elation/relief when solved.


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

Davecan, Puns are always welcome!!! 
Greco, I guess before I quit my job and start a boutique pedal empire I should get my basic electronic terminology correct. The capacitor has -0022 on it.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Muskoka Man said:


> The capacitor has -0022 on it.


Careful...is that 0.022 or .0022? 
(0.022 uF [micro Farads] would be somewhat typical)

This is a huge difference in the capacitor world. 

Others can/will correct me, but I have been under the impression that bass guitars often use 0.047 uF capacitors. I am not all that familiar with bass guitars in general.


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

Hard to say. I was using a magnifying glass and couldn't see if or where the decimal was.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Muskoka Man said:


> Hard to say. I was using a magnifying glass and couldn't see if or where the decimal was.


OK ...Sorry if I came across as a jerk...it was not intended.

If you decide to change the cap ...try one of a value of 0.047 uF (50 volt rating is plenty)

Here is some interesting (in my 'nerdie' opinion) reading from a bass forum...
Capacitor difference??


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

No worries. I did not perceive any jerkiness. But i understand how typing and texting can be misunderstood. It's all good. I am still really excited (and somewhat) intimidated by exploring electronics.
I went to the local radio shack to get some 22 gauge wire and they had no idea what I wanted. Funny, I remember them having all kinds of actual electronic stuff. Now its only cell phones and printer cartridges.
I really do appreciate all your advice and suggestions.


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

I don't know exactly how much it matters but the volume and tone pot are 500 k and the bass has single coil pickups


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

PM me with your mailing address and I'll send you some caps and wire.

500K Ohm pots are fairly typical with humbuckers *in guitars*. 
250K pots are often found with single coil pickups* in guitars.
*
I have no clue about the specifics of bass guitars. 
*Where are all the bass players around here...especially when we need them!...LOL
*
Exploring guitar/bass electronic is fun, inexpensive (unless you start buying pickups) and safe...the voltages and current in passive (or even circuits with 9 volt batteries) circuits could not harm a mouse.


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

greco said:


> PM me with your mailing address and I'll send you some caps and wire.
> 
> 500K Ohm pots are fairly typical with humbuckers *in guitars*.
> 250K pots are often found with single coil pickups* in guitars.
> ...


I am much braver trying wiring with the bass rather than my les paul.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Refer to the schematic Larry posted earlier. 250k pots and 0.047 cap.



greco said:


> PM me with your mailing address and I'll send you some caps and wire.
> 
> 500K Ohm pots are fairly typical with humbuckers *in guitars*.
> 250K pots are often found with single coil pickups* in guitars.
> ...


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

davetcan said:


> Refer to the schematic Larry posted earlier. 250k pots and 0.047 cap.


Excellent memory! 

I had forgotten all about that post/schematic.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

If you are going to solder a capacitor 'leg' to a terminal, use something to absorb the heat (called a 'heat sink') so that the 'body' of the capacitor doesn't get hot and possibly damaged. An alligator clip is fine.


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## alwaysflat (Feb 14, 2016)

Good thread so far ... those look like gold foil PU's ? Interested in how they sound after its all done up.


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

Hello All,
Update: I spent some quality time with my bass today. I soldered on the 2 capacitors in parallel. Re-did my ground lines (including the bridge ground with was just a bare wire possibly making contact). Thank you Greco for sending me some wire and capacitors. The tone range has improved. However, there still a notable buzz when the tone is rolled in. It's completely gone with the tone off. It lessens when my hands are making contact with the strings. Any thoughts?

Chris


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

....wiring gremlins....


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

JBFairthorne said:


> ....wiring gremlins....


I must have tried soldering after midnight?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Muskoka Man said:


> However, there still a notable buzz when the tone is rolled in. It's completely gone with the tone off. It lessens when my hands are making contact with the strings. Any thoughts?


I would consider changing the tone pot. I'm not sure why, but it would seem to be worth a try.

If the buzz lessens with your hands touching the strings, it would suggest some sort of grounding issue.

Good Luck! (meant with sincerity)


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

Thanks, where would you suggest I get a new pot from?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Jon at NextGen guitars has a good assortment of pots, caps and wire.
I added the caps and wire to your shopping list because you might want to order a nice proper 0.047 uF cap (if the 0.044 uF cap [2 x 0.022 uF in parallel] sound good) and some extra wire (as I didn't send you very much).


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

How do I decide which pot to get? I should use a 250K but there are several to choose from


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Muskoka Man said:


> How do I decide which pot to get?


Talk to Jon at Next Gen. He will help you to decide on the choice (250k ohm vs 500k, long shaft vs short shaft, metric knob size ,etc.)


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## Muskoka Man (Jan 22, 2017)

greco said:


> Talk to Jon at Next Gen. He will help you to decide on the choice (250k ohm vs 500k, long shaft vs short shaft, metric knob size ,etc.)


Awesome. Thanks I'll give him a call/send e-mail.


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