# Daylight savings what’s the point



## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

Honestly this confuses me.

in the winter we get “ I’m tired of waking up in the dark”so they move the time in order wake up with the sunlight.

now it’s “ let’s change thetime so we wake up in the dark”

also cows yes cows. Cows are on a timed milking schedule and they can’t be switching their time or they could die .

come on people think of the cows !


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

There's been discussions regarding getting rid of it. But it was also mentioned that we need Quebec and New York to do the same thing. For whatever reason I can't remember why but it has been talked about in the provincial government level as far as I know.


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

Chito said:


> There's been discussions regarding getting rid of it. But it was also mentioned that we need Quebec and New York to do the same thing. For whatever reason I can't remember why but it has been talked about in the provincial government level as far as I know.


Them darn Quebec folks 😂 .
Disclaimer that’s a joke


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Time to change your clocks again. Here's why daylight saving time is an unspeakable scourge


Daylight saving time starts on Sunday, March 13, and clocks will spring forward one hour at 2 a.m.




nationalpost.com




_The European Parliament voted to get rid of DST in 2019. British Columbia also promised to kill the practice in 2019. More than 30 US states have passed resolutions begging for a federal end to annual clock changes.

Nothing has happened. Governments either get distracted, or they get spooked by some legislative red herring.

BC broke their promise to end DST because neighbouring Washington State wasn’t going to follow suit. You know, because everyone knows it’s economic suicide to have trade partners who observe a different time zone than you do.

So there you have it, DST is stupid. Fortunately, it’s the only dumb and wasteful practice we do purely out of collective habit. There are no others._


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

The merits (and demerits) of daylight savings time adjustments have been debated for decades.

I'm of the opinion that it should be discontinued as soon as possible.

I see no benefits and some definite negative impacts.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

Well, if we stayed on Standard Time here in Southern Ontario by June it would start getting light in the morning just after 4:00 am. I'm an early riser but that's a bit early even for me.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

GuitarT said:


> Well, if we stayed on Standard Time here in Southern Ontario by June it would start getting light in the morning just after 4:00 am. I'm an early riser but that's a bit early even for me.


Right, so we leave it on Daylight savings time. We're there now.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Yup, just leave it on DST. An hour of light after (most people's) work in the winter would be helpful. No need to save candles for businesses, or whatever the excuse was for the time change, any more...and if your neighbouring provinces and states don't want to do, screw them, these are our new hours of operation, deal with it, make the call an hour later, or earlier.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Yup, just leave it on DST. An hour of light after (most people's) work in the winter would be helpful. No need to save candles for businesses, or whatever the excuse was for the time change, any more...and if your neighbouring provinces and states don't want to do, screw them, these are our new hours of operation, deal with it, make the call an hour later, or earlier.



I agree. Having daylight while I'm woring in my office is of little value to me. It's not like I turn lights off or any other energy saving measures.

Give me some useable daylight AFTER work and I'm happy.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I have no quarrel with daylight savings time itself. But I seem to recall that it never used to be introduced this early in the year. 

We got married at the beginning of May, and one of the annoyances was that the clocks changed that weekend. (Start and end dates were subsequently changed in 1986). After the wedding, we flew back from Ottawa to Edmonton. Between flying west, the clocks moving ahead, the fact that Edmonton is much farther north than Ottawa (so morning daylight comes a lot earlier in the spring), and our bedroom curtains not being nearly thick enough to keep the sun out and let us sleep, I was messed up for a week.

Which brings up the other aspect. Daylight savings time makes sense near the Canada/US border and further south. But many Canadian provinces and territories extend so far north that it's not clear what is being "saved". At the height of summer, there is probably 4 more hours of daylight in Edmonton, Churchill, Prince George, and Happy Valley/Goose Bay, than there is in Windsor, Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal. And switching over in mid-March, when things are still pretty dark much of the day for most parts of the provinces with northern reach doesn't really buy you anything of use. Even with the clock change, those folks are still waking up and going to bed in the dark. Problem is, we can't just draw a horizontal line through the country and apply DST to the portion south of that line.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

all I know is that it screws up schedules now that I have hired people in regina who don't have DST changes.


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## Griff (Sep 7, 2016)

The problem with staying on DST through the winter is that the sun would come up very late in the morning. This may not affect southern Ontario as much as other places, but in the Prairies it would be pretty bad.

I guess Russia went permanent DST in 2012, and switched back to standard 2 years later. Similar latitudes to us. 

I know the switch is annoying but both alternatives seem worse, to me.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Griff said:


> The problem with staying on DST through the winter is that the sun would come up very late in the morning. This may not affect southern Ontario as much as other places, but in the Prairies it would be pretty bad.
> 
> I guess Russia went permanent DST in 2012, and switched back to standard 2 years later. Similar latitudes to us.
> 
> I know the switch is annoying but both alternatives seem worse, to me.



The sun coming up late in the morning is fine with me. I'm up and working before the sun every day anyway. I really don't care if it's dark for the first few hours. All that means is I wait a little longer to open the curtains.

Again, it's of much more value to me to have useable daylight AFTER the work day.

The disruption to sleep that many of us experience twice every year, lasting for about two weeks (until our circadian rythym makes the adjustment) is not worth it to me.


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## Griff (Sep 7, 2016)

Milkman said:


> The sun coming up late in the morning is fine with me. I'm up and working before the sun every day anyway. I really don't care if it's dark for the first few hours. All that means is I wait a little longer to open the curtains.
> 
> Again, it's of much more value to me to have useable daylight AFTER the work day.
> 
> The disruption to sleep that many of us experience twice every year, lasting for about two weeks (until our circadian rythym makes the adjustment) is not worth it to me.


This was discussed a LOT here in Alberta this past fall, when we had a referendum on it. Here is an article to read on the topic:









Circadian rhythm expert cautions Albertans against permanent daylight savings time


Oct. 18 referendum neglects permanent standard time, the right option for public health, says UCalgary psychologist




arts.ucalgary.ca





This expert basically says that the disruption to your sleep isn't because of the hour time change, but rather that you've shifted the time away from what your body would consider normal. The few weeks that you feel 'off' is actually just the sun catching up to the time change.

It's fine to say you prefer dark mornings, but there is generally a reason we're awake when we are... it's because of the sun.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Griff said:


> This was discussed a LOT here in Alberta this past fall, when we had a referendum on it. Here is an article to read on the topic:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The "change" is the problem, not whether it goes up or down. I would be quite content to keep the clocks as they are right now, throughout the year.

That's just my opinion.


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## Griff (Sep 7, 2016)

Milkman said:


> The "change" is the problem, not whether it goes up or down. I would be quite content to keep the clocks as they are right now, throughout the year.
> 
> That's just my opinion.


It's an interesting topic. The opinions are pretty diverse, because we're all diverse.

I work shift work and have messed up sleep all of the time... but the worst shift of the year is working overnight when clocks 'fall' back. A 12 hour shift becomes 13, and it seems like a small difference but it is terrible.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Griff said:


> It's an interesting topic. The opinions are pretty diverse, because we're all diverse.
> 
> I work shift work and have messed up sleep all of the time... but the worst shift of the year is working overnight when clocks 'fall' back. A 12 hour shift becomes 13, and it seems like a small difference but it is terrible.


For various reasons I have some significant sleep problems. DST is only one of them, but it does cause me probelsm twice a year.

The spring forward change is actually not as bad as the fall back change. I find myself watching the clock every morning waiting for it to be time to get up. This morning I just didn't have to wait quite as long.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

I was chatting with my nephew and his girlfriend about this. They were both of the opinion it wasn't necessary. 

She said: "plus, then it wouldn't get dark so soon". 
Me: except, this is "standard time". 
Her: it is?? That sucks!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I go to sleep when I am sleepy and wake up when I am not sleepy. Haven't had a bedroom clock for, well, ever. It is a good way to live. Lucky for me my natural wake up time is somewhere in the vicinity of 4:00 and 5:00. It would be a miracle if I could manage to sleep until 7:00. Maybe we move the clocks ahead 2 hours just for me, so I can say I slept in.
I would appreciate it.

Still though, permanent daylight savings time wouldn't bother me much. Winter is a write off anyhow, might as well soak as much summer sun as we can


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Right, so we leave it on Daylight savings time. We're there now.


The argument there has always been the safety concerns around kids walking to school in the dark during the winter as it would still be dark until around 8:30 am.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Again, the problematic natures of DST is not the _province-to-province_ discrepancies, but rather the _north-to-south_ ones.

Here's an interesting graph of dark/light times over the year in Whitehorse. Sunrise and sunset times in Whitehorse In January, there is about 6hrs of daylight in a day. Today there is just under 12hrs. In one month from today, there will be 14.5hrs, and in two months, daylight for 17.17hrs each day.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)




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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

F**k, just pick one and keep it there. You don't get _more _ daylight ffs. I've always found it ridiculous.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

You certainly don't get *more* daylight. It's a question of when that daylight occurs in the schedule of expected activities. And if shifting the *occurrence* of daylight hours, such that it aligns better with some expected activities, so much the better, taking into account my caveat that the shift is imperceptible for many northerly parts of the country that have daylight to spare in the warmer months.

I know when I used to work downtown, it was a very different physical experience waiting for, and taking, the bus ride home at 5:30 in the dark vs in the daylight. Now that I'm retired at home, the increasing day-length is one of those things you simply "find out about", rather than _experience_.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

laristotle said:


> …
> _…So there you have it, DST is stupid. Fortunately, it’s the only dumb and wasteful practice we do purely out of collective habit. There are no others._


Irony alert?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Yup, just leave it on DST. An hour of light after (most people's) work in the winter would be helpful. No need to save candles for businesses, or whatever the excuse was for the time change, any more...and if your neighbouring provinces and states don't want to do, screw them, these are our new hours of operation, deal with it, make the call an hour later, or earlier.


Yup Saskatchewan doesn't seem to care what neighbor Alberta does.


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

I also dislike the time changes and for many of the reasons stated above. But I would add the following: I think it's important for us as individuals and as a larger society to witness changes in nature and to adapt ourselves to those changes. While turning the clocks back and forth may certainly seem like an adaptation due to a loss of daylight, it also signals a historical desire to control our environment that is both sad and naive. By going back and forth in terms of changing time to suit our own needs, we lose track of how the days get longer or shorter - we don't take the opportunity to observe how the world around us changes in a cyclical manner every year. This puts ourselves as humans at the centre of everything, and it is this attitude which we need to shake off to prevent our own downfall.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)




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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)




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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

One market closes and another stays open, trading on the sleeping giants' losses. If there's dollar signs attached to the numbers you better believe it has nothing to do with societal good.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Staying on DST year round is what most people want, except of course if you live in the far north then you'd rather go the other way to at least you have a sunset before 1030PM, even if the sun rises at 3AM. 

Apparently there are significant energy savings to having daylight extend later in the evenings vs early mornings. 
And a big one..drumroll........ they found people stopped on the way home from work more often to shop when it's daylight outside...but less so when it's dark. DST is worth billions to big business


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

What if everyone stopped looking at their clocks?


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

We don’t like change in SK, we like it the same everyday!


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## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

Kinda like making a blanket longer by cutting it in half and sewing it to the bottom.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

zztomato said:


> F**k, just pick one and keep it there. You don't get _more _ daylight ffs. I've always found it ridiculous.


Interesting. Keep the clock where it is and shift our activities. Half the year businesses open at 8 and half the year they open at 9.


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## Griff (Sep 7, 2016)

US Senate just voted to make DST permanent in Nov 2023. Still has some hoops to go through but some people here may get their wish.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Griff said:


> US Senate just voted to make DST permanent in Nov 2023. Still has some hoops to go through but some people here may get their wish.


They called it the "Sunshine Protection Act"

Ha!


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Griff said:


> US Senate just voted to make DST permanent in Nov 2023. Still has some hoops to go through but some people here may get their wish.


And, even though we are currently in DST, and have just left Standard, they would set the clocks to make this the standard. It would keep it lighter later in the winter. It would also make it darker longer in the morning in winter. Not sure parent groups would dig that. That’s a common complaint. “Too dark when the kiddies go to school”.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

SWLABR said:


> And, even though we are currently in DST, and have just left Standard, they would set the clocks to make this the standard. It would keep it lighter later in the winter. It would also make it darker longer in the morning in winter. Not sure parent groups would dig that. That’s a common complaint. “Too dark when the kiddies go to school”.


It won't last, it will be "oh this is great" for a year or two, then everyone will clue in that the logical answer is standard time. It is why it is the standard. 

The best approach would be the way it was done before Greenwich Mean Time and that is every locality set the time where they are according to the sun and there was no standard.... but that does not work in the new (old) connected world so, some of us suffer. 'Mericans, that south won't really notice much difference, they are equatorial.... us Northern Folk on the other hand.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I understand that the Senate just passed a bill to make DST permanent and it's on its way to the House. If it passes that barrier, it will apply in 2023. The "Sunshine Protection Act of 2021".


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

I like more light in the morning. Standard for me.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm very much a morning person.

I'm up before the sun everyday and by the time it wakes up I've already been working for hours. I work in an office so it really has zero impact on me whether it's light or dark outside.I want sun when I'm done work so I can do some things around the house, enjoy a little time in the yard with the missus, et cetera.

I'd be quite happy with DST remaining in place permanently.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

zztomato said:


> I like more light in the morning. Standard for me.


As a former golfer, I'd say make DST the new standard so I can still be coming done 18 at 9:00 at night, but now that I don't golf, ya... give me morning sun. Keep Standard standard.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

SWLABR said:


> As a former golfer, I'd say make DST the new standard so I can still be coming done 18 at 9:00 at night, but now that I don't golf, ya... give me morning sun. Keep Standard standard.


This is one thing that is a pro and con. Parents of young children point out how difficult it can be to get kids to bed etc with the later sunsets, however one thing that often gets passed over by those parents is that as their kids get older they forget to realize that if the sun is going down at 8pm, they will have to get them to outdoor activities (soccer, softball etc) correspondingly earlier too. It can be difficult enough to get home, feed the kidlings, get to an activity as it is, now try and do that an hour earlier.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

SWLABR said:


> As a former golfer, I'd say make DST the new standard so I can still be coming done 18 at 9:00 at night, but now that I don't golf, ya... give me morning sun. Keep Standard standard.


With standard time a person could get in a full 18 before work. 
I row at the Ottawa Rowing Club. It's kind of a morning sport- best water is in the morning- so standard time works best for that sport anyway.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I don't see the benefit to DST out here on the coast, in the early days of summer the sun comes up around 3:45, or at least you know it is there and goes down 'round about 10. That seems like crazy talk to me. Either way, it makes no difference to me. I will keep waking up when I am done sleeping and going to sleep when I am sleepy. If I don't feel like working in the dark, I will leave later or come home earlier.... or something something.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

zztomato said:


> With standard time a person could get in a full 18 before work.
> I row at the Ottawa Rowing Club. It's kind of a morning sport- best water is in the morning- so standard time works best for that sport anyway.


You'll get as many differing opinions as people on this. I agree early morning is the best for flatwater sports. I personally don't like morning golf, even though many would consider me an early riser. Wet grass before the dew burns off, watering and maintenance all done in the mornings, off the course before the bar opens for a post-round beer. No thanks


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

ZeroGravity said:


> You'll get as many differing opinions as people on this. I agree early morning is the best for flatwater sports. I personally don't like morning golf, even though many would consider me an early riser. Wet grass before the dew burns off, watering and maintenance all done in the mornings, off the course before the bar opens for a post-round beer. No thanks


Yeah, the post round beer is a little weird at 9 a.m.
I probably row more in the evening actually- even though the water is never as good. I'm good with either and will adjust accordingly.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

ZeroGravity said:


> You'll get as many differing opinions as people on this. I agree early morning is the best for flatwater sports. I personally don't like morning golf, even though many would consider me an early riser. Wet grass before the dew burns off, watering and maintenance all done in the mornings, off the course before the bar opens for a post-round beer. No thanks


I loved early morning golf! The dew should have been a hinderance, but for some reason I loved it. I absolutely love golf, and miss is deeply. (sad face)


zztomato said:


> Yeah, the post round beer is a little weird at 9 a.m.


Duh! That's why God invented "Breakfast Beer"


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Oh lord, let's not make any decisions around golf. The most boring fucking sport in the world. Boring to play and even worse to watch. Then there's the size of the game table. What a good place for affordable housing.

.....and yes, I used to play it, that's how I know.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Jim DaddyO said:


> .....and yes, I used to play it, that's how I know.


C'mon, admit it, you sucked at it and that's why you hate it.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Jim DaddyO said:


> The most boring fucking sport in the world


It isn't a sport, it is an objective fueled walk-about. At least it is when I play, I am terrible but it gets my lazy ass outside


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

For the record, I may be one of the very few sales professionals who have never played or been inclined to play golf. I don't hate it, but I don't have any interest.

Surprisingly I think in terms of social interaction and developing relationships with buyers, being a guitar nut has been very helpful.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Brunz said:


> It isn't a sport, it is an objective fueled walk-about. At least it is when I play, I am terrible but it gets my lazy ass outside



For many it's not even a walk about. Most of the people I know use carts when they play.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Milkman said:


> For many it's not even a walk about. Most of the people I know use carts when they play.


You have to walk from the cart to the ball... and, if the green is tucked away in a little nook, it can be pretty far.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Milkman said:


> For many it's not even a walk about. Most of the people I know use carts when they play.


Then there truly is no soul left in the engagement. What is the point of being out in a beautiful, natural(ish) setting enjoying the day if you just hop in a cart and just drive all over the place. 

Another question is how much lazier can you really make the laziest possible "sport". It takes a whole butt load of skill to be good at, but I am not sure that being skillful makes it a sport.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Oh lord, let's not make any decisions around golf. The most boring fucking sport in the world. Boring to play and even worse to watch. Then there's the size of the game table. What a good place for affordable housing.
> 
> .....and yes, I used to play it, that's how I know.


It is hard to ignore when "According to The Economic Impact of Golf in Canada (2019), the Canadian golf industry employs the equivalent of nearly 249,000 people through direct and spin-off effects and contributed to *$10.6B in household income*"

I agree as a love or hate kind of activity, it can be a bit of a lightning rod, but you could easily insert soccer, softball, touch football, cricket, hurling, lacrosse, or any other outdoor, organized sport and all of those are across all age groups, kids to adults.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

ZeroGravity said:


> I agree as a love or hate kind of activity, it can be a bit of a lightning rod, but you could easily insert soccer, softball, touch football, cricket, *hurling*, lacrosse, or any other outdoor, organized sport and all of those are across all age groups, kids to adults.


What sport or game is "hurling"? Is that part of the event commonly called "pub crawl"?


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Hurling is an extremely violent sport. Like Field Hockey, mixed with Lacrosse, and Aussie Rules Rugby. 

The Irish love it.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

What I loved and hated about daylight saving time was, if I was playing in the local bar on Saturday night when the clocks changed, the clocks sprung forward in the spring so we got to stop playing an hour early but when the clocks fell back in the fall, we had to play for another hour.  . . . . . That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

But just to make nobody happy, let’s split the difference.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

SWLABR said:


> Hurling is an extremely violent sport. Like Field Hockey, mixed with Lacrosse, and Aussie Rules Rugby.
> 
> The Irish love it.


That's a pretty good description of it. Hell of a sport to watch. Take a field hockey stick and put a flat spot on it, up and down the field to score with a lacrosse sized ball, with all the body contact of lacrosse and Aussie rules and stick work of lacrosse.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Standard time works best for the dawn patrol of most outdoor activities.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

ZeroGravity said:


> That's a pretty good description of it. Hell of a sport to watch. Take a field hockey stick and put a flat spot on it, up and down the field to score with a lacrosse sized ball, with all the body contact of lacrosse and Aussie rules and stick work of lacrosse.


Yes, I failed to mention that instead of a stick with a little net on the end, you are basically using a big long spoon! How on earth they can catch anything on the end of that...


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

zztomato said:


> C'mon, admit it, you sucked at it and that's why you hate it.


I was good enough at it to invest in my own set of clubs instead of renting them. Not great, but I didn't suck.

To be honest though, unless it has 4 wheels and excessive horsepower, I don't follow any sports.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

2 wheels and excessive HP works well too.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

oldjoat said:


> 2 wheels and excessive HP works well too.


Video never does justice to the sound.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

zztomato said:


> I like more light in the morning. Standard for me.


Lots will agree with that and the first winter where the sun rises at 845 instead of 745, or for God's sake 945 in Edmonton, for all of Dec, people will ask if this is what they really want.
Yes, sunrise on Christmas in Edmonton is around 845AM on ST.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Mooh said:


> But just to make nobody happy, let’s split the difference.


"...and a half hour in Newfoundland"


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I'd say leave it at DST.

The clock change pisses me off because I'm on the 401 twice a day and when the clock changes it rewinds the sun so it's back in my eyes again.


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