# Les Paul 1959 reissue vs. Other LP



## mobydick (Oct 24, 2009)

Hi, could someone who has experience playing a 1959 LP reissue let me know if it is better or worse for playability and sound than other conventional LP guitars? The reissues are obviously more money and collectibles, however are they everyday players? Thanks


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

mobydick said:


> Hi, could someone who has experience playing a 1959 LP reissue let me know if it is better or worse for playability and sound than other conventional LP guitars? The reissues are obviously more money and collectibles, however are they everyday players? Thanks


Yup, they are...:smile:


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## -TJ- (Aug 28, 2006)

nonreverb said:


> Yup, they are...:smile:


on average yes, but I've played a few RI's R8, R9, and R0 (well only one of these and it was good but not great) that were good guitars, but definitely underwhelming for the price tag.... on the other hand I played a few that were just phenomenal instruments, I would not buy without trying a bunch first 

just my opinion:smile:


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## Stevo (Apr 3, 2008)

I think with R9's you are paying the premium for the figured top. I think R7's, R8's or R0's are every bit as toneful and playable as an R9. At least with the ones I have tried. 

In my experience, most Custom Shop stuff tends to be of better quality than the Gibson USA stuff. Not all the time but in the majority. In my last LP hunt, I managed to get three prospective LP's home and running through my rig. Two Gibson USA's (LP Faded and LP Traditional) and a custom Shop LP (used Warren Haynes sig LP). The Haynes LP was almost double the price but three times the guitar of the other two.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

yes, they are meant to be players. 

IMO the historic line is head and shoulders above the USA line.

R9s and R0s have the extra charge for both the figured top and (in theory) lighter mahogany. As far as playability and tone, I think the R7s and R8s are basically the same as R9/0.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

that is a simple question but the answers can get complicated.
in a word: yes.

but to explain in detail why an R9 is better than a lot of other LPs takes some time.
first thing to understand is that the Historic Reissues, whether and R9, R8, R6 etc. are just that..."Reissues". they are not originals but are as close a facsimilie as Gibson has made of any of their classic 50's electric guitars since...well the 1950's.
they are not 'exact' copies. and there are lots of nitpickers who will tell you all the details that are not exactly the same as a real 1959 LP. 
oh the plastic is different, the pickups are different, the wood is different, the paint job is different etc etc. but hey, they are built in the 2000s not the 1950s. 
but they are still excellent guitars that have a lot of hand made details on them. and generally speaking of the oh 100 or so Historics i've played in the past few years, most are smooth playing and great sounding guitars.
obviously some are better than others. 
what they have going for them over other Gibson LPs is that they are are all solid bodies (no chambering or weight-relief holes in the body) and the fit and finish is what you would expect from the Custom shop.

now that is not to say that regular Gibson USA LPs are crap. because they aren't. but if you are into the mythology of a bunch of geriatric old rock dinosaurs like Page, Taylor, Green, Clapton, Beck, Bloomfield etc then you will probably get closer to the playing experience, feel, tone and sound with one of these Historic reissues than a basic LP.


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## northern1 (Feb 2, 2006)

Yes Historic's are definately players a Les Paul is ok with some ware on it, PRS's are ugly with marks on them cause they are so pretty, I sold my last S245 artist because it was to dam nice looking to play or take it out of the house. The Historic's in my experience are much better and more consistant with slight tone and feel differences in the same model I have owned 2 R9's and an R7 and they were all great players and tone that would make a LP lover lofu 
The regular production LP's are extremely hit and miss the best one I played was a 2004 and it was a great guitar but 15 to 20 other standards I have played in the last 4 or 5 years didn't have the mojo feel or tone not even close in fact they are getting further away than close to the real LP vibe.
Good luck.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

you'll get a lot of different answers on a question like this

the only way to make up your mind is to play a bunch & compare them

theoretically & from a marketing perspective the historics should be a better guitar....but are they worth the $$? 

only you can answer that

I have played standard LP's, studio LP's, and even copies, that with decent pickups, became amazing guitars. one of my faves is an old Tokai, it certainly holds up. LP studio's may not have the flash, but they are very solid gtrs

so my answer: if you're on a budget get a standard or studio etc, it will certainly do the job & will kick ass if you get some good pickups

if you've got money to burn, are into collectibles, or worry about pedigree go ahead & get an historic, they are great but not necessary to make great music

in the end it's the player that matters.....and what inspires you to play

and if an historic inspires you to play more, more power to you sdsre


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

hey there...listen very carefully to jimmy page's words here...his '59 les paul has been refinished...which is a big "no-no" in collector's circles...he's also altered the tuners...installed a push/pull knob...installed a phase reversal switch...yikes...it's hardly "original" anymore...

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLSz5vD9Dho]xLSz5vD9Dho[/youtube]


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## Cdn_Cracker (Oct 7, 2006)

-TJ- said:


> on average yes, but I've played a few RI's R8, R9, and R0 (well only one of these and it was good but not great) that were good guitars, but definitely underwhelming for the price tag.... on the other hand I played a few that were just phenomenal instruments, I would not buy without trying a bunch first
> 
> just my opinion:smile:


Totally agree with you TJ.... If you look at an R8 vs and R9 or R0... there is little difference except a slightly different neck carve and the R9/R0's have a more figured top. If you want to pay $2000+ for those to slight variances... then fill your boots.. however most every LP has its own personality. I have also played some Traditionals and Standards that blow those reissues out of the water.

Then again, I have also played a Gibson LP Pearly Gates (several $$thousand more than a R9) and it was an incredible experience and I have never touched a LP that comes anywhere near that.

For me....I thought a lot about grabbing a Lester and ended up with a Larrivee RS-4. It is better than most LPs I have played. It has Re-issue like electronics (high quality) and Lollar Imperials (arguably one of the best PAF style HBs on the market), as well as amazing playability for a price that is much less than any re-issue.


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## Evilmusician (Apr 13, 2007)

jimihendrix said:


> hey there...listen very carefully to jimmy page's words here...his '59 les paul has been refinished...which is a big "no-no" in collector's circles...he's also altered the tuners...installed a push/pull knob...installed a phase reversal switch...yikes...it's hardly "original" anymore...
> 
> [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLSz5vD9Dho]xLSz5vD9Dho[/youtube]


Yeah but it belongs to Page ! so its worth more there than ever it could stock!plus these guys are players not collectors if it makes it a better player to you mod the hell outta it! enjoy your guitars guys!


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## SteveS (Apr 25, 2006)

I bought a used 2006 Les Paul Standard online a couple of years ago and I found it was pretty close to new ones I had tried in the stores. I kept it for a couple of years and after I got used to it was pretty happy with it. It had some issues (mainly going out of tune), which likely could have been easily fixed if I had taken it in for a good set up.

I started taking notice of the Historics and originally thought there's absolutely NO WAY I'm paying that much for a guitar.......

I played a new R7 in a local shop and aside from the baseball bat neck, which I didn't like at first but quickly got used to, thought it was an ok guitar. I certainly wasn't going to pay $3800 plus tax for it though.

Anyway..... fast forward a bit, I did some research, and I started thinking seriously about maybe looking at a Historic. I started considering an R7, then an R8, and then decided f$#k it. If I'm going to take the plunge, get the one I want, which of course was the R9 with the nicer (to some) top, which is the only major difference between the R8 and R9.

I decided to buy used as the new ones at the local Long & Mcquade's were $6200 plus tax. Too much for me, so I did a lot of looking and found I could get a nice used one for $4000 to $4500. 

I waited and watched until a nice used one came up here. It belonged to Northern1. He and I made a deal and the guitar arrived. 

As it was I wasn't 100% happy with it. It had what I thought was a mushy tone and the tone controls didn't work very well. The volume's wouldn't hold any treble when they were turned down and the tone controls did virtually nothing. Apparently this is common on many Historics and easily fixed.

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble here....:smile:, to make a long story short, I started hanging around the Les Paul Forum and MYLESPAUL.com. There is a wealth of information there. I made a few modifications to this R9 and transformed it from a guitar I was thinking about selling to my absolute favorite guitar. I like it much better than the Standard.

I do think that the workmanship that went into this R9, and the tone it has now is much better then the Standard I had. No question to me there.
Are they worth that much more money than a Standard? I don't think so but that's the price of admission if you want a Historic.

I've seen some great buys on used R7's, and R8's.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

I've got an '07 Standard that I love despite (or maybe because??) of the chambering. Some people say it negatively affects tone, but I think it sounds awesome and just like a LP should.

Having said that, I _am_ GASing for an historic guitar and I'd probably go with an R8 over the R9 just because of the additional upcharge for the top. A nice R7 Goldtop would be good too!


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## Gene Machine (Sep 22, 2007)

*my $.02*

I have a Standard and an Historic R7. Here is my experience:

Standards are great guitars.

Historics are better.

Whether or not the difference in quality/playability/tone is worth the $$?
- that is entirely up to you to decide.

To me, it is. But I got mine used. (Thanks, Northern1).

Gene


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Gene Machine said:


> Whether or not the difference in quality/playability/tone is worth the $$?
> - that is entirely up to you to decide.


that's the thing with an Historic. You pay quite a bit to get the little bit extra. And a lot to get a flametop over a plaintop. Diminishing returns. 

I felt it was worth it too.


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## ssdeluxe (Mar 29, 2007)

"you only live once....or twice.." tone regret need not be necessary.

what I mean by this is, I've learnt by buying lesser instruments in the past, and never being satisified and wasting much more money buying and selling such instruments.

get the best (to you) you can afford and play it 1st.

I agree with all that has been said, nice well-rounded pile of info here imho :food-smiley-004:"


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## Jaggery (Mar 12, 2006)

Great thread. Now I have some basic info on Les Pauls.

Never played one but getting some gas for the first time ever.

How much would a new plain top LP standard cost new?


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## mobydick (Oct 24, 2009)

mobydick said:


> Hi, could someone who has experience playing a 1959 LP reissue let me know if it is better or worse for playability and sound than other conventional LP guitars? The reissues are obviously more money and collectibles, however are they everyday players? Thanks


Hey guys thanks for all your opinions and know how. I think bottom line is I will have to play and compare the RI's to the Standard LP's before I buy. Either are big investments.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Jaggery said:


> Great thread. Now I have some basic info on Les Pauls.
> 
> Never played one but getting some gas for the first time ever.
> 
> How much would a new plain top LP standard cost new?


Over $2000 last I checked.


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

^ do they even still make new plain top Standards? I thought the last ones were made around 10 years ago.

mobydick, my username is R9. I don't think I need to tell you which one I prefer. :smile:


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

*well here goes...*

Here's what I think I have learned owning various Standards and Historics and before the flaming starts, this is only my opinion (based on my experience)
1. better deals are to be had on used vs. new regardless of whether Standard USA or Custom Arts and Historic division.
2. I don't buy into the commonly stated "fact" that there is significantly discernable variation in tone between Standards and Historics or within the Historic family for that matter unless you're comparing a humbucker version to a P90 for instance. Personally, I have come to prefer P90's so my R6 is my current go to gat.
3. If you don't care about a figured top, there are deals to be found on used R6's, R7's and R8's that rival Standard prices, but you have to be patient.
4. If you are looking for a figured top, there are great deals on older (<2002) R8's whose tops are every bit as good and sometimes better than their counterpart R9's.
5. Within the Historic family, the most important aspect to me (now) is the neck profile. They vary, period. This may be the only practical reason to test drive before buying. That said, the profiles on most R7's, R8's and R9's are reasonably consistent. The profiles on R0's are significantly slimmer. I have come to prefer the thicker neck profile so R0's are out for me (although I still own one...)
6. Before you make your choice you should consider (not necessarily in this order):
-your budget (this will help determine to some extent whether USA Std or Historic is right for you)
-what neck profile you prefer (this will point you either to R6-R9 or R0) and there are still good deals on used plain top R0's. Remember that electronics, hardware and plastic can be changed, necks and bodies are little tougher)
-what pickups you like (I mean humbucker vs P90, not variations in humbuckers since those are easy to change) and this will point you to either R6 or R7-R0 territory.
-when you have narrowed down these first points and chosen, then: consider that '03 and later (Historics) have certain attributes that make them closer to their original sisters such as sharper inlays, faux bumblebee caps etc) but this may not matter to you.
-finally, you will never be content with just one Les Paul anyway, so any mistakes you make now you'll correct on your next purchase. And oh yeah, though they are great guitars, most Historics aren't collectible to anyone but you, so get that out of your head now. 

Disclaimer: I realize everything I've said here is subjective.

Swervin:smile:


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

Swervin55 said:


> Here's what I think I have learned owning various Standards and Historics and before the flaming starts, this is only my opinion (based on my experience)
> 1. better deals are to be had on used vs. new regardless of whether Standard USA or Custom Arts and Historic division.
> 2. I don't buy into the commonly stated "fact" that there is significantly discernable variation in tone between Standards and Historics or within the Historic family for that matter unless you're comparing a humbucker version to a P90 for instance. Personally, I have come to prefer P90's so my R6 is my current go to gat.
> 3. If you don't care about a figured top, there are deals to be found on used R6's, R7's and R8's that rival Standard prices, but you have to be patient.
> ...


no flaming here.
i agree with almost everything you wrote.


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## mobydick (Oct 24, 2009)

Swervin55 said:


> Here's what I think I have learned owning various Standards and Historics and before the flaming starts, this is only my opinion (based on my experience)
> 1. better deals are to be had on used vs. new regardless of whether Standard USA or Custom Arts and Historic division.
> 2. I don't buy into the commonly stated "fact" that there is significantly discernable variation in tone between Standards and Historics or within the Historic family for that matter unless you're comparing a humbucker version to a P90 for instance. Personally, I have come to prefer P90's so my R6 is my current go to gat.
> 3. If you don't care about a figured top, there are deals to be found on used R6's, R7's and R8's that rival Standard prices, but you have to be patient.
> ...


Swervin, thanks for your insight and the check list!


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

You're very welcome. Good hunting!

Swervin:smile:


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

Swervin55 said:


> 2. I don't buy into the commonly stated "fact" that there is significantly discernable variation in tone between Standards and Historics or within the Historic family for that matter unless you're comparing a humbucker version to a P90 for instance. Personally, I have come to prefer P90's so my R6 is my current go to gat.


Not arguing with you here but this is really up to each individual to determine. Historics do sound slightly different to me than weight-relieved LPs...both plugged in and especially unplugged. WR LPs seem to be missing a little something...not much, though, they are very close. I joking say - you can hear the wood. :smile:

Please don't take this as one is "better" than the other. I'm saying this based on my personal experience playing an infinite number of Gibson Les Pauls over the past couple years. A guy at another forum also once posted a guessing game audio clip of his 4 Les Pauls - 2 historics, 1 WR LP, 1 chambered LP. I was able to pick out which 2 were the historics and that's from just a poorly recorded audio clip. Maybe it was just luck, maybe the electronics had more to do with it, who knows?...but I was 4 for 4.

I'm not ragging on WR Les Pauls - in fact, I own 2, myself - just saying that some people can hear a difference and some cannot. Heck, my cousin was over one day and I demo-ed all my (then) guitars for him. The 7 Les Pauls, SG & 335 all sounded exactly the same to him. Even my R6 - exactly the same as my LPs with humbuckers to him. WTF??  The only guitars he could tell sounded different were my Strat & Tele but he said those two guitars sounded exactly the same. I guess the point is each person is different.


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

R9: Right you are! That's why I used the word "significantly". I probably should have highlighted it. The point I was trying to make was that in very basic terms, a Les Paul sounds like a Les Paul. Unless the OP is able to tell the difference between a USA Std (weight relieved or otherwise) and a Historic, he may not want to spend the additional dough for the Historic. But your point is well taken.
Swervin:smile:


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## Jaggery (Mar 12, 2006)

Question on the Gibson Custom.

Is the custom shop emblem (the thing below the Gibson on the headstock) no longer used?


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

^ it's only used on the LP Custom. Be it, modern or historic Custom. None of the other LP models get it. A few other Gibson guitars also have it - like the SG Custom, ES-359 & a few others, I'm sure.


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## Jaggery (Mar 12, 2006)

On standards or otherwise, when did chambering start?

I played a 02 LP at the shop today and it was really light.


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## Gene Machine (Sep 22, 2007)

*I thinks...*



Jaggery said:


> On standards or otherwise, when did chambering start?
> 
> I played a 02 LP at the shop today and it was really light.


I believe the recent chambering began in 2006. However 2002-2005 (mayybe earlier?) had weight relief holes in the mahogony under the maple cap.

Some guy on lespaulforum.com did an xray of his git, you could see the holes. it looked like swiss cheese. about 2" diameter holes. I have a nice light 2002 Std, and love it. No issue with sustain or otherwise, it rings 
bee-yootiful.

Gene.


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## Jaggery (Mar 12, 2006)

Gene Machine said:


> I believe the recent chambering began in 2006. However 2002-2005 (mayybe earlier?) had weight relief holes in the mahogony under the maple cap.
> 
> Some guy on lespaulforum.com did an xray of his git, you could see the holes. it looked like swiss cheese. about 2" diameter holes. I have a nice light 2002 Std, and love it. No issue with sustain or otherwise, it rings
> bee-yootiful.
> ...


Well, I played it unplugged and it was ringing very well indeed.
The tag had the word "02 LP Std Lite".


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

the 'swiss cheese' weight relief holes started way back, about '83.


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