# How much money per gig?



## marcos

Just wanted an idea what the average gigging musician is making in this big country of ours.What kind of gig your playing most of the time and how many times are you getting out a year?To get things started i play about 20 gigs yearly,about half what i used to do a few years ago,and get about 100.00 to 200.00 a nite depending where and what kind of venue I am playing.I hope you feel comfortable sharing this info with others(dont worry,i am not with Revenue Canada):smilie_flagge17:


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## snacker

that's about the same as i'm getting.....

solo - $200
duo - $150ea.
trio - $125 ea.
quartet - $100ea.

on average - we always try for a bit more......

corporate and private parties generally pay a bit better


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## ajcoholic

$800 for two nights (Generally FRiday and Saturday, 3 one hour sets) at the local bars. Thats $200 each since we are a 4 piece.

If we do a private function, its between $600 and $800 for the evening.

AJC


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## marcos

*Money per gig.*

It will be interresting to see the comparison from NewFoundland to Vancouver.


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## Michelle

Yep, about $100 - $125 for a bar is the usual, don't know about corp/private gigs, biker weddings would be cool.


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## dwagar

While most of the time we play for free (for our community), when we do charge we generally get $800 to $1200, but there are 6 of us, so $125-200. 

We play at the community 9 or 10 times a year, paid gigs maybe 6 or 7 a year. We don't really go looking for paid gigs - we prefer something tied to a community rental - that's where we keep our equipment, we don't like hauling our gear. And we're mainly playing for the fun of it.


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## hollowbody

Last gig I played we got $400 for the show, but we were a 5-piece, so $80 each. Although the venue had never heard of us and we were just starting out at a band and couldn't really offer any references or anything like that.


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## scottomy

My band seems to get paid like most of you say - a hundred bucks a person for a 1 nighter, but is often less (75 - 90) for a Friday, Saturday. 

But how do you handle the PA? Do you supply and operate it, or the club? Do you charge them for it? Do you own or rent?? This can really affect your take-home pay!


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## snacker

we own a pa that works for bars or small theatre gigs - there have been a few times where we had larger outdoor gigs where we billed the company that hired us for a soundguy and big outdoor rig


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## dwagar

we own a PA. I think it's wise to have your own, it doesn't have to be an expensive system, but it has to work. Older used gear can save a lot. I think I've got about $1000 into the PA, plus mics, cords, stands, etc.

the last gig we played supplied the PA, mics, sound man, etc. Most we play do not offer that.


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## marcos

*Money per gig.*

I also own my own PA.I have invested a lot of money in it but i find that i can control it better.My equip. is always in top shape,no surprises.If we play a really big venue,the Pa is usually set-up for us.


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## ajcoholic

Same here, I play in two gigging bands. For one, I own the gear (manybe $2500 worth) and its fine for the bar scene.

In the band I play rythm guitar in, the bass player owns most of the gear and he has a bigger set up than me.

But if you want to play private parties, weddings, etc you need your own stuff anyhow. Its easier and you know its working.

AJC


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## allthumbs56

It's been about 5 years since I quit playing the bars. As a five-piece we'd get about $75 - $80 apiece then for a night. Sometimes food and a bar tab thrown in - always loved the owner that would send over a pizza and a pitcher for the band during a break :food-smiley-004:

BTW, I owned the FOH system and the drummer owned the monitors (amp & wedges). Everyone was responsible for their own mics.


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## avalancheMM

We generally farm out our sound,engineer, and lights, when we contract the production ourselves, we are charging $1800 for the night, and if production is supplied, we are at $1200. My lead singer and I own our own production ( he owns lights, riser, backdrop, and I own big PA, monitors and mics, cables etc.), if we use our own gear, which we haven't been as we are both self employed and usually too busy to take a half day off of work to set up, etc, we charge the $1800, and split it 6 ways for 4 guys. He and I take an extra share each for the gear. The band isn't responsible for blown amps or speakers or bulbs, or bad cables etc., just the two of us who have ownership. We have been playing together since high school (20+years), and have developed kind of a following. Plus, we've the great privilege of opening for some great bands locally ( Nitty Gritty, Sawyer Brown, Chilliwack, Emerson Drive, Aaron Pritchett), so we sort of accidentally and happily earned somewhat of a reputation. We have had *great* luck, and a modest amount of talent. Sorry, I really am grateful and write this with the humblest of intentions.

Regards


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## StevieMac

I've been with a 5-piece band for several years now and we generally earn $100+ pp a night, plus food and drinks. We charge extra for sound (at cost only) if the house doesn't supply it. Seems to work well for us.


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## Wild Bill

*This always breaks my heart ...*

I've heard this so many times yet each time I could just cry and cry again.

We've slipped so far!

Back in the early 70's (before the last Ice Age) I was a roadie for a 'C' level band. We played around Ontario, based out of Hamilton. We weren't considered good enough to get many gigs in Hamilton and certainly never in Toronto. So we would play from WallaceBurg through small town after small town, all the way up to Hurst and Kapuskasing and then back down to home.

We would do this as a tour for 6-9 months at a time, playing mostly 3 nighters and 6 nighters, depending on the size of the club. Clubs in those days were MUCH larger than today! Even a small town like Seabringville outside of Stratford would have a club that could hold a couple of hundred people. Clubs were for drinking and dancing. People thought nothing of driving 20 miles to see a band that they liked.

We would play the odd high school dance on the tour. We could get enough from two high schools back to back Friday and Saturday nights to equal one 3 night engagement at a club.

So how much did we get paid? Typically $1600 for a 3 nighter and $2400 for 6 nights. We charged $800-$900 for a high school dance.

Remember, gasoline at the time was maybe $0.25/gallon, which is 4.55 litres! A pack of smokes was about $0.35. A draft beer was $0.25.

We had our own converted school bus and our own PA.

As their roadie I slugged gear, mixed the sound and ran the lights during the performances. Just about every club was large enough with a real stage area in front of the dance floor that I could run my sound and lights from the back, through 75-100 foot 'snake' cables. PA was not as sophisticated as that of today and more expensive so we miked the vocals, maybe 4 mikes on the drums and one each for the guitars and bass.

Because the clubs were bigger they could sell enough beer to pay for bands like us. Because people had more disposable income for fun/entertainment they could come out 6 nights a week, if they cared enough!

With that kind of money, we put on a REAL show! A dedicated front man singer, who didn't have to play a guitar! TWO main guitarists, doing lots of harmony leads! Fog and smoke bombs! Stage clothes for all the players! 

Now a band is lucky to get a Friday or a Saturday night. The club might have 50 people, tops. There's often no real stage but a corner with one plug for the whole band. In Hamilton there's usually no dance floor. The owners don't want to give up a couple of tables' worth of chicken wings!

Since there's such poor money, the bands are usually just 3 piece. The set lists are all very similar. Easy standards so the players don't have to rehearse much, if at all. The players go on stage in jeans and tshirt, often with a baseball cap turned backwards. You can't tell until they go on stage that they're the entertainment. They look like some guys who just stumbled in the door.

No fancy lights. No fog machines. No harmony licks. No dedicated front man. Just one guitarist doing pretty well all the vocal duties as well. 3-part vocal harmonies? Hah! You're lucky if the drummer and bass will add the odd shoutback, let alone sing along in harmony.

So I don't go out much anymore. Just the odd set to catch one of my customers and hear how my amp work sounds! It's friendship and business with the players, not to actually get entertained.

Compared to what I grew up with, today's scene is just too lame ass! It's been said that we older boomers won't come out to clubs so there's no point in catering to our tastes. I can't speak for everyone my age but I know that for myself, the product being offered is such a sad shadow of the 'glory days' that there's just no way I'm gonna drag myself out.

Call me an old fart but I'd rather just sit at home with my vinyl collection, thank you!

:food-smiley-004:


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## Rugburn

The big venues today feature very little in the way of live music. My reasoning is the explosion in Dance/hip-hop "DJing". I accept that some of these people are valid artists that use snipits of recorded music to create new soundcapes. Though the majority of it, to me, seems marginal at best. These guys will however, pack a large venue at a fraction of the cost and hassle of a full live band. I did sucurity with a friend for a rap show at our local college a few years back for a guy named "Choclair". 3,000 people watching one guy on a microphone, and another at a turntable. I think the tickets were $15. I'm sure the cost of security that night was a few grand alone. No fog machines, but lots of lights. 

Shawn :smile:


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## marcos

Wild Bill and Rugburn,I hear you.Times have changed a lot.The world has changed and so has this business we call music.Yes it is a business today.I think back then I was making less money but there were more musicians in the band,Aprox.7 at one time.It was a great time to play in bars,dances and clubs.
I remember playing in the States for a week in 1970 and comming back home with no money and had lost a few pounds because we had to keep the cash to put gas in the truck to get us back home,and our guitar player had pneumonia so we had to go to a doctor and get some antibiotics..So I too, like Wild Bill,am greatfull for everything we got back then.And you know what,we are not old farts,we have just settled in to a more comfortable lifestyle,I think.LOL.:rockon2:Thanks guys for sharing your experiences,it makes me feel good to know that I am not alone.


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## noobcake

Wild Bill said:


> I've heard this so many times yet each time I could just cry and cry again.
> 
> We've slipped so far!
> 
> Back in the early 70's (before the last Ice Age) I was a roadie for a *'C' level *band. :


Well damn, if a "C level band" packed that big a punch (lights, smoke, 3 part vocal harmonies, etc.), I guess you would consider most of today's bands to be "F levels" or something.


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## Milkman

I toured throughout the late seventies and 80s with several bands. We ran full sound and lights, fog, specials and sometimes even pyro. We had a two man crew and generally a four piece band.

We made more money then than bands do now. It was mostly split weeks (Monday ~ Wed in one town and Thurs ~ Sat in the next). An average week would have been $2000 ~ $2800. One nighters were generally $1000 or more. Of course, we had higher overhead than most bar bands do now.

These days bars pay between $400 and $600 per night but full week engagements are rare. It's a different scene now for sure.


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## Wild Bill

noobcake said:


> Well damn, if a "C level band" packed that big a punch (lights, smoke, 3 part vocal harmonies, etc.), I guess you would consider most of today's bands to be "F levels" or something.


Yeah, I guess I do! I've seen many individually great players but as a band there's not much to impress as far as a collective sound and show.

I leave it to you to imagine how A and B level bands looked and sounded back in those glory years.

It all comes down to money. Part of the problem could be solved if we compensated for smaller clubs with a cover charge. I've heard that in New York if you want to go see a great jazz band you pay a $20 cover. That also gets you your first two drinks. Apparently, they have some GREAT jazz bands!

Today, we're used to the old days of not having a cover charge but we don't seat enough people to pay for a decent band. I don't see any other solution. 40 people can't possibly buy enough beer or chicken wings to pay the bands any more than a couple of hundred bucks. Otherwise, the owner would lose money on the night. If the band got nothing from the owner but took a $10 cover instead, that would be $400! You can see the possibilities.

:food-smiley-004:


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## Gizmo

If you can stand the frequent bouts of antagonism and negativity expressed on this site, there is some enlightening discussion about the live music scene in Ottawa here:

http://ottawasux.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=general

Check out the thread "Time To Stand Together......!!!!!"

(no, I've never posted to this board! )


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## Wild Bill

Gizmo said:


> If you can stand the frequent bouts of antagonism and negativity expressed on this site, there is some enlightening discussion about the live music scene in Ottawa here:
> 
> http://ottawasux.proboards44.com/index.cgi?board=general
> 
> Check out the thread "Time To Stand Together......!!!!!"
> 
> (no, I've never posted to this board! )


Thanks, Gizmo! I only scanned a few pages but it looks like some interesting conversation. I did notice that no one on those few pages seemed to make the connection between smaller clubs and less money to pay bands. Perhaps I'll find that point later. Still, I've met almost NO players who have realized this! Lots of complaining about owners 'being cheap' but no one thinking about how much money is coming in to be shared.

This is surprising! When I was that young roadie everyone understood that it was a business and like any business it all depended on how much money was involved. If the band wanted more money they had to help the owner sell more beer!

It seems today's players take that part for granted, looking for a bar to be a venue to showcase their talent. Some seem to think that it might lead to a 'Lana Turner' discovery, where some fat agent with a big cigar will notice the girl with the tight sweater and offer her a big contract to make her a star. Like that's gonna happen in a typical downtown bar that seats maybe 40-50 people, IF it's full!

The bottom level for making any sort of money today seems to be small to medium concerts. I don't know why anyone interested in a career path would even bother to play the typical club. I mean, it's ok if you just want to show off to your friends but to go home with $50 or less after playing to 2:00 am...why bother?

The nice thing about covers is that it gives no risk at all to the owner. He hopes to sell more beer. A better band will become a bigger draw. You can't add seats to a small bar but a popular band will command a larger cover. Plus sellling CDs and tshirt stuff, of course.

In the days of the Beatles and the Stones starting out bands used to rent banquet halls and sponsor their own dances. They'd sell as many tickets as they could and often pocket some serious cash! It can be a little scary to have to poney up the night's rental for the hall and then hope the dance is successful but hey! That's what it means to be in business! If you have a good show and put some effort into advertising it shouldn't be a risk.

I also blame rock and roll for bailing on the dancers! This seemed to happen in the late 80's and early 90's, which has been already pointed out to be 'grunge' time. Women love to dance and I've seen them leave rock clubs in frustration. My country customers get twice as many gigs for at least twice the money. They actively support dancing with their music. They tell me that's where all the young chicks seem to be ending up.

I asked my 18 year old daughter about this and she told me she couldn't imagine dancing to today's rock and roll. It seems the only dancing modern bands write for is slam dancing!

Clubs took such a financial hit in the 70's that many just shrunk to tiny little places trying to be all things to all people. They want to be a club, a restaurant, a pool hall, a neighbourhood darts pub, all under one roof and that roof is only big enough for a few dozens of people. If they want a band its only because they think it will draw more tables to order chicken wings. They pay only $200 or so because that's all their budget will allow! There isn't any more profit to split!

Rock and roll without dancing can't draw large enough numbers of people to make it worthwhile to build bigger clubs. Dancers get thirsty and drink more beer.

It seems a catch 22 situation but somebody has to sit down, analyze it and adapt to it before it can ever change. 

Sitting around bitching and waiting for the owners to cough up more money is never gonna happen!

:food-smiley-004:


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## marcos

*Money per gig.*

Thanks Gizmo,some good reading for sure,a lot of ranting dough.It is a sad time for live music in the Ottawa area and i assume all over Canada.There is no easy fix for getting good wages.The bar owners are mostly concerned about making money.I guess the better clubs have found a better way for paying descent wages per night and the other ones are all struggling,so it seems.As my own carreer slowly comes to an end,I am worried about the future of clubs and bars with live music.There was a time when the Union was the way to go,but its different now for sure.We got stiffed a few times but our Union always came in to pay us Union wages and they would go after the club owners and give them a hard time by blacklisting them etc..It worked for a while then they(bars) would just hire non Union musicians and that would solve there prob.Sometime it just feels good to do a freebee, for charitable reasons of course,and be treated with respect and dignity.:smilie_flagge17:


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## Rugburn

Catch 22 is right. Most musicians I know have day jobs. If they're lucky they have a gig once a week that pays $200. Ponying up for a large hall and the necessary advertising on top of it, in the hopes of making real money is no small feet. As much as I would like to see it, I don't think this generation is interested. Whatever happened to the small time promoter? Most of them I've met are sleazeballs, but hey, they know how to finesse people. Something most musicians can't stand.

Shawn


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## bolero

wow, good thread...no easy solution either


that said, I am seeing more live music in toronto....the horseshoe, rivoli, silver dollar have all been busy each time I've been there

live jazz & folk isn't too bad: resovoir lounge, c'est what, the rex, momo's on the queensway....hey do we have a "places to go to" live music thread yet?


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## Gizmo

One of my favorite threads on that site I posted is about a local big business dinner at mega$$ per plate. They advertised for a band to play for free, saying they would get great contacts...yeah right! 

if they can pay the juggler and the waitress why can't they pay the band, who probably has to work most of the day to do the gig.

While I agree with it being a catch 22 situation, what I'm finding here is that hard work, making contacts and supporting some of the other local bands pays off. There is so MUCH great talent around here and so few places to play, that it is hard to resist the temptation to play for less. Our band has agreed that we will do one free (charity) gig a year...thats it.

So much to be said about all this...


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## marcos

*Money per gig*

I wonder today if you could put on a dance,rent the hall, equip. etc..and make it work.We also did this in the 60's and we were sucessfull a few times.Not sure if you could profit even at 10 bucks a ticket after all is paid for.Any thoughts on this?


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## Rugburn

marcos said:


> I wonder today if you could put on a dance,rent the hall, equip. etc..and make it work.We also did this in the 60's and we were sucessfull a few times.Not sure if you could profit even at 10 bucks a ticket after all is paid for.Any thoughts on this?


All this talk of hard work and taking action is great, but in my experience somewhere in this equation there has to be a benefactor. Whether it's a club/bar owner who's interested in the quality of the music, as well as making some money or a promoter who can sell a band to a prospective venue, you need some grease on the wheel. I know the owner of the Boathouse Bar in Kitchener, and he's one of those guys that has come close to losing his shirt several times. It's his passion and his bar has the best live music in the city. It takes a commitment from all parties involved to make a vibrant scene. 

Shawn :smile:


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## Younggun

My Band has only played 2 Gigs so far (an HS Dance and a Coffee House). Our earnings covered our gas and quarter pounder meals for each of the Band members each night. You have to start somewhere.


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## Mooh

My knee jerk response to the OP's question is that I won't leave the house for less than $100, but it ain't necessarily true. Last night I pocketed only $70 with my regular country/rock band (I don't really even like country very much) because it was so local I could go home at break if I wanted, the venue is level entry with lots of stage space, free food and drink for the band, and no expenses. The other exception to my self-imposed rule are some one-off fundraisers and charitable gigs. In a small town, small market, off season, situation, you do what ya gotta so you can play when you wanna.

Normally though, $100 to $200 is my take. More for weddings.

This isn't the first go round for this topic, I should look to see what I wrote on others.

Peace, Mooh.


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## james on bass

My band's general rule is $100 each. We're a 5 piece though, and it's hard to find bars, especially in London, that will pay $500 a night. There is a bar here though that we play a few times a year for about $75 each, just because it is such a fun night.

Private parties and summer/fall fairs is where it's at.


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## bleedingfingers

2 things I want to say .
It's sad but people will pay a cover charge to get into a dance bar where 
theres no band playing .


And there's always some bunch of keeners who will play for no money just to go play and ruin it for everyone else .

Some Club owners and promoters will tell you to come in for a low price the first time you play there venue and you'll make more the next time .
That almost never happens.



One other thing playing gigs for exposure
you can die of exposure .


If you're gonna play for free do it for a legit charity and do some good .

oops thats more than 2 things make that a few things .

Since I started playing the money has only gotten worse 
there are fewer venues and most of the ones that are out there only book 1 or 2 nights a week.

Support Live music or soon there won't be any B.


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## marcos

*Money per gig.*

When I started this post,i thought that it would die off after a few comments but I soon realized that its getting very interresting after hearing from one end of the country to the other.People are passionate about there craft and it shows.Nice blend of new and old.Like everyone else,i have an opinion on the state of live music but its not easy finding a solution to fix it.No one is wrong here,we just have different opinions.Its too bad we cant turn back the clock.:smilie_flagge17:


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## Wild Bill

bleedingfingers said:


> 2 things I want to say .
> 
> It's sad but people will pay a cover charge to get into a dance bar where
> theres no band playing .


You're proving my point! They want to dance!

Next time you play a club, look around. How big is the dance floor? IS there a dance floor?

Now look at your playlist. How much of it is easy for dancing?

There will be exceptions but I bet that's exactly what they'll be...exceptions!

Somehow, back in the early 90's the world changed and owners either forgot or were too new to know that a club is a club. Young folks went there to drink, dance, chat each other up and sneak out to the bushes!

The band was expected to keep them dancing. Dancers get thirsty and buy more beer. Sets were typically no more than 40 minutes long or even 30, with 20 minute breaks. That way that cute girl in front knew that it wouldn't be long before that cute guy would be along to try to chat her up.

This was a tried and true format that had worked for clubs since the 1920's, if not longer. It was proven and tested.

After the change, everyone seemed to think that a club was just a small concert. The band played music, everyone listened and there was nowhere for dancing. Some owners seemed to think that the band was just a latter-day version of those two Italian guys in "Lady and the Tramp", playing a violin and an accordion while the young couples ate their spaghetti. They were there to sell more pasta!

Every band seemed to think they were "Journey", playing 60-90 minute sets and ALL concert material! Dance rock disappeared, except for slam dancing.

I would go to a club and see with my own eyes what was happening. The women would be twitching their legs, wanting to dance but there was no dance music and no dance floor. Meanwhile, the band would be playing ON and ON and ON! They'd be eying some guy and waiting for him to hit on them but there was no point. Nothing could be heard over the music. 

Sometimes they didn't even wait for the end of the first set before they bailed. As I posted before, some of them went to country bars to dance. Others went to raves and techno dance clubs.

The bands wound up with fewer and smaller places to play, wondering why it was happening. They really thought that it was all about them. It wasn't. It was all about selling beer and helping young folks get laid!

Clubs weren't just small concert venues at all. They were entry paths towards getting popular enough to get OUT of playing clubs and into playing concerts!

Last month at the Corktown in Hamilton there was a blues night with several bands and artists. I went down to see a friend play. I was amazed to see all kinds of young women Goths in medieval times costumes, splattered in tats and boogying their butts off to Texas Blues! They saw a chance to dance to something danceable and they seized it!

It breaks my heart to see rock fade away in clubs, while country keeps on chugging, line-dancing the night away.

:food-smiley-004:


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## Rugburn

Wild Bill said:


> You're proving my point! They want to dance!
> 
> Next time you play a club, look around. How big is the dance floor? IS there a dance floor?
> 
> Now look at your playlist. How much of it is easy for dancing?
> 
> There will be exceptions but I bet that's exactly what they'll be...exceptions!
> 
> Somehow, back in the early 90's the world changed and owners either forgot or were too new to know that a club is a club. Young folks went there to drink, dance, chat each other up and sneak out to the bushes!
> 
> The band was expected to keep them dancing. Dancers get thirsty and buy more beer. Sets were typically no more than 40 minutes long or even 30, with 20 minute breaks. That way that cute girl in front knew that it wouldn't be long before that cute guy would be along to try to chat her up.
> 
> This was a tried and true format that had worked for clubs since the 1920's, if not longer. It was proven and tested.
> 
> After the change, everyone seemed to think that a club was just a small concert. The band played music, everyone listened and there was nowhere for dancing. Some owners seemed to think that the band was just a latter-day version of those two Italian guys in "Lady and the Tramp", playing a violin and an accordion while the young couples ate their spaghetti. They were there to sell more pasta!
> 
> Every band seemed to think they were "Journey", playing 60-90 minute sets and ALL concert material! Dance rock disappeared, except for slam dancing.
> 
> I would go to a club and see with my own eyes what was happening. The women would be twitching their legs, wanting to dance but there was no dance music and no dance floor. Meanwhile, the band would be playing ON and ON and ON! They'd be eying some guy and waiting for him to hit on them but there was no point. Nothing could be heard over the music.
> 
> Sometimes they didn't even wait for the end of the first set before they bailed. As I posted before, some of them went to country bars to dance. Others went to raves and techno dance clubs.
> 
> The bands wound up with fewer and smaller places to play, wondering why it was happening. They really thought that it was all about them. It wasn't. It was all about selling beer and helping young folks get laid!
> 
> Clubs weren't just small concert venues at all. They were entry paths towards getting popular enough to get OUT of playing clubs and into playing concerts!
> 
> Last month at the Corktown in Hamilton there was a blues night with several bands and artists. I went down to see a friend play. I was amazed to see all kinds of young women Goths in medieval times costumes, splattered in tats and boogying their butts off to Texas Blues! They saw a chance to dance to something danceable and they seized it!
> 
> It breaks my heart to see rock fade away in clubs, while country keeps on chugging, line-dancing the night away.
> 
> :food-smiley-004:


Your both proving my initial point. If one kid at a turntable can pack a club that holds over a thousand people and charge a cover, why hire a band in a genre of music that's less popular? The two kinds of clubs that work today are dance/hip-hop and country "roadhouse" type venues. It does warm the heart that some ladies were shaking their a$$es to "Texas Blues" in this day and age.

Shawn :smile:


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## Mooh

The instinctive and impulsive need to dance? Twas always thus. You gotta move.

Fwiw, I made as much money per gig 30 years ago as I do now, but sports bars, video dances, karaoke, disco, DUI laws, serving restrictions, consumption habits, competing events, home entertainment, and the tragic realization that I'm not hip have all eaten into the profit margin.

C'est la vie.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Wild Bill

Rugburn said:


> Your both proving my initial point. If one kid at a turntable can pack a club that holds over a thousand people and charge a cover, why hire a band in a genre of music that's less popular? The two kinds of clubs that work today are dance/hip-hop and country "roadhouse" type venues. It does warm the heart that some ladies were shaking their a$$es to "Texas Blues" in this day and age.
> 
> Shawn :smile:


Ah Shawn, but a good band can provide a show that a kid at a turntable just can't!

If it works for a country roadhouse then why is it that rock can't compete? Obviously, rock must be doing something wrong.

A front man who swaggers like David Lee Roth. A guitarist who gets out onto the dance floor or better yet, hops onto a bar table and plays a wicked solo! Then walks over and gives a shy girl a kiss as he winds up in a crescendo!

Most club bands are just not adequate to compete. What's more, as long as they think the people are there to hear them throw a concert they can never compete with a DJ.

You have to compare apples with apples. Today, the rock bands in clubs seem to be offering "road apples". They let the market slip through their fingers. Now it will take more effort to try to get it back.

Still, I don't believe that rock by itself is less popular than country, or techno/rave. It just no longer offers something the club market wants, for so long that an entire generation has grown up thinking that rock is NOT an option if you want to go dancing!

Everyone thought blues was dead, until along came Jake and Elwood...

:food-smiley-004:


----------



## marcos

*Money per gig*

Having done the country scene in the 90,s i came to a conclusion that country fans are very loyal to there music and dont take themselves seriously as other genres.They actually go out to dance,have a few brews and enjoy themselves.
It was for me the best audiences that i had played for since the 60's.They support the bars and bands more because they actually give a shit about the music.Anybody who has played small bars in the country will tell you that.


----------



## Rugburn

Well....some days I'm not even sure I'm much for rock n' roll. Today the dance stuff/hip-hop *IS* the rock n' roll. Parents don't give a $hit if their kids listen to Nickleback or Sam Roberts. They *DO* care if their kids listen to 50 Cent or Lil' Wayne. With all due respect your talking about jumping/dancing guitar players,David Lee Roth and lazy rock musicians. Go see a Rap show (if you can stand it), there's lots of jumping around, sexual overtures and the audience dances. What went over at a Stones or Van Halen concert in the 80's, is not what gets young people excited anymore. I agree that it's not a static condition. Someone will come along and change it. Everybody seemed to think it was gonna be the White Stripes, but I don't think that revolution made it much past the pen tips of the various music critics that championed them. Not to say they're not good enough....it's just not their time.

Shawn :food-smiley-004:


----------



## Beatles

Wild Bill said:


> Ah Shawn, but a good band can provide a show that a kid at a turntable just can't!
> 
> If it works for a country roadhouse then why is it that rock can't compete? Obviously, rock must be doing something wrong.
> 
> A front man who swaggers like David Lee Roth. A guitarist who gets out onto the dance floor or better yet, hops onto a bar table and plays a wicked solo! Then walks over and gives a shy girl a kiss as he winds up in a crescendo!
> 
> Most club bands are just not adequate to compete. What's more, as long as they think the people are there to hear them throw a concert they can never compete with a DJ.
> 
> You have to compare apples with apples. Today, the rock bands in clubs seem to be offering "road apples". They let the market slip through their fingers. Now it will take more effort to try to get it back.
> 
> Still, I don't believe that rock by itself is less popular than country, or techno/rave. It just no longer offers something the club market wants, for so long that an entire generation has grown up thinking that rock is NOT an option if you want to go dancing!
> 
> Everyone thought blues was dead, until along came Jake and Elwood...
> 
> :food-smiley-004:


I tend to agree with your observations WB. I can't recall the last time I saw a rock band put on a good show. Sure I've seen some great musicians and great bands, but there is no "show" to speak of. I also think there are more bands out there now who are chasing after a diminishing bar/club market. There are fewer and fewer opportunities in these venues IMO. And I also believe that the younger kids have an even more difficult time to get out and play. In some cases they have to actually PAY to gig. Unbelievable. 

My band (4 piece) does about 12 to 18 gigs a year. Depending on the venue, we are paid anywhere between $650 and $1200 per gig. There are the odd gigs where we would be paid $400. We play 50's and 60's dance music, with the emphasis on dance. Our last gig was at a seniors retirement centre, and it was another great gig for us. The crowd was dancing all night, because the music was good and they all knew the songs. They booked us at the end of the night for next new years. So I guess that you have to go after the tyoe of market that will pay decently. We don't like doing the bars anymore, and our gigs are usually afternoons, and the Fri/Sat ones are finished by 11:30/12:00.


----------



## Wild Bill

Beatles said:


> I tend to agree with your observations WB. I can't recall the last time I saw a rock band put on a good show. Sure I've seen some great musicians and great bands, but there is no "show" to speak of. I also think there are more bands out there now who are chasing after a diminishing bar/club market. There are fewer and fewer opportunities in these venues IMO. And I also believe that the younger kids have an even more difficult time to get out and play. In some cases they have to actually PAY to gig. Unbelievable.


Agreed, Mr. B! Unbelievable!

I think as we talk here we're all circling around one central theme...musician's ego! They don't realize what they are supposed to accomplish at a club 'cuz all they can think of is impressing everyone with their magic fingers! And they don't think about the entire band and its stage appearance 'cuz they only care about their OWN magic fingers!

Perhaps they WANT to think of a club as a concert venue! For most players today, it's the closest to a real concert stage they're ever gonna get!

The problem is, that's not good business. It's just wankin'!

I realize that the money isn't there to pay for a better show. That being said, the money often isn't there to justify playing a club at all! So why worry about it?

Maybe players should take the attitude that they're making an investment in the future by using the money to spruce up the total show rather than taking home enough to just pay for their beer, gas and parking. Work out a 4 or even 5 piece act, with their own PA, lights and sound man. You don't need concert level PA equipment to give a decent sound in a club but you do need someone out front to adjust it and re-adjust it through the night, or better yet to provide vocal effects during songs. 

I saw a band last Saturday night in Jordan, Ontario. Good players and good vocals, or so I'm told. I couldn't make out the vocals so I can't say for sure. it was like listening at home with the tweeters and upper mid speakers blown in your hifi setup. I'm sure that some adjustment could have helped immensely. I saw one guy adjust a knob or two from beside his piano just before they started to play. That was it for tweaking the PA that I saw. I guess he thought that it would sound the same where he was as it did to those of us in the audience. Maybe it did! Perhaps he liked it to sound like ass!

Still, the band went over well and one strong reason was that at all times they played like a BAND! Everything fit together and everything was tasty. No 30 minute solos.

I'm convinced that a REAL show could pack the place, once the word got out! You'd have to choose a bigger club where the opportunity existed to sell a lot of beer. There's still some around seating 150 or so. After packing the place a few times with a hallful of thirsty dancers any owner with any sense would cheerfully allow a band to keep the cover. Once it became a popular spot then the idea might spread.

Maybe I'm just an old guy dreaming. I dunno, but nobody else seems to know either. I'm a techie and techies think that if you have an idea the only way to prove it is to test it!

These days, I don't see anybody testing anything new. However, it's pretty obvious the status quo isn't working well.

Perhaps all the rockers on this board who want to make some money should just switch to country or become DJ's.

:food-smiley-004:


----------



## Beatles

Wild Bill said:


> Perhaps all the rockers on this board who want to make some money should just switch to country or become DJ's.
> 
> :food-smiley-004:


Or be a one man show and go the Karaoke route :smile:


----------



## Rugburn

Wild Bill said:


> Agreed, Mr. B! Unbelievable!
> 
> I think as we talk here we're all circling around one central theme...musician's ego! They don't realize what they are supposed to accomplish at a club 'cuz all they can think of is impressing everyone with their magic fingers! And they don't think about the entire band and its stage appearance 'cuz they only care about their OWN magic fingers!
> 
> Perhaps they WANT to think of a club as a concert venue! For most players today, it's the closest to a real concert stage they're ever gonna get!
> 
> The problem is, that's not good business. It's just wankin'!
> 
> I realize that the money isn't there to pay for a better show. That being said, the money often isn't there to justify playing a club at all! So why worry about it?
> 
> Maybe players should take the attitude that they're making an investment in the future by using the money to spruce up the total show rather than taking home enough to just pay for their beer, gas and parking. Work out a 4 or even 5 piece act, with their own PA, lights and sound man. You don't need concert level PA equipment to give a decent sound in a club but you do need someone out front to adjust it and re-adjust it through the night, or better yet to provide vocal effects during songs.
> 
> I saw a band last Saturday night in Jordan, Ontario. Good players and good vocals, or so I'm told. I couldn't make out the vocals so I can't say for sure. it was like listening at home with the tweeters and upper mid speakers blown in your hifi setup. I'm sure that some adjustment could have helped immensely. I saw one guy adjust a knob or two from beside his piano just before they started to play. That was it for tweaking the PA that I saw. I guess he thought that it would sound the same where he was as it did to those of us in the audience. Maybe it did! Perhaps he liked it to sound like ass!
> 
> Still, the band went over well and one strong reason was that at all times they played like a BAND! Everything fit together and everything was tasty. No 30 minute solos.
> 
> I'm convinced that a REAL show could pack the place, once the word got out! You'd have to choose a bigger club where the opportunity existed to sell a lot of beer. There's still some around seating 150 or so. After packing the place a few times with a hallful of thirsty dancers any owner with any sense would cheerfully allow a band to keep the cover. Once it became a popular spot then the idea might spread.
> 
> Maybe I'm just an old guy dreaming. I dunno, but nobody else seems to know either. I'm a techie and techies think that if you have an idea the only way to prove it is to test it!
> 
> These days, I don't see anybody testing anything new. However, it's pretty obvious the status quo isn't working well.
> 
> Perhaps all the rockers on this board who want to make some money should just switch to country or become DJ's.
> 
> :food-smiley-004:


I should make it clear that generally I agree or gain great insights from your posts Bill. Remarks like "magic fingers" seem at odds with my numerous and varied experiences over the last ten years. When I was a kid everywhere I went the somewhat older guys were all about Floyd, SRV, Hendrix, Jeff Beck and the like. I rarely see lengthy solos anymore. The new "look at me types" tend to be the singers. Maybe it's all that "Idol, Supernova" crap floating around on TV......I dunno. Considering in an earlier post you mentioned you rarely get out to shows anymore, you should know that guitar showboating is about as cool as polka in the bars and smaller clubs these days. Blues venues being about the last safe haven for "magic fingers" on the scene. I would love to play country. The only problem being I like Willie, Waylon and the boys. The "New Country" sounds like sucky Eagles/America type stuff to me. I think it's funny that in other threads on this forum many members went to great pains to make the case that things haven't changed that much. Were all forgetting what it was like when we were kids and so on. But yet, here we are talking with varied agreement that things *have* changed.....and maybe, just maybe, not for the best. Very interesting indeed. I hope people, all people not just the musicians, begin to realize that live music is like many art forms today.....endangered. Ask any kid today about art and music programs at their schools, it's a pretty dismal state of affairs. At least when I went to school there was some foundation for appreciating the arts. Nowdays that's just stuff you get for free off the Net.

Take care Shawn :smile:


----------



## james on bass

marcos said:


> i came to a conclusion that country fans are very loyal to there music and dont take themselves seriously as other genres.They actually go out to dance,have a few brews and enjoy themselves.
> It was for me the best audiences that i had played for since the 60's.They support the bars and bands more because they actually give a shit about the music.Anybody who has played small bars in the country will tell you that.



Exactly!! Many, many people that come to see my band are in their 40s or older, and want to get out once in awhile to dance to some country music, have a few drinks and some fun. I've even noticed a few couples coming to see us in different cities just because the first time they saw us they never left the dance floor.

I enjoyed playing classic and prog rock, but it really sucks it out of you to see people straining to hold a conversation and not caring about the music until the band goes on break and the DJ comes on.


----------



## bolero

plus all those "classic rock" radio stations are giving it a bad name....playing the same 100 songs to the same demographic over and over and over. 


Q107 used to be great when the DJ's would actually listen to new music & make their own playlists..now it's a big corporate walkover of recycled music


----------



## Mooh

bolero said:


> plus all those "classic rock" radio stations are giving it a bad name....playing the same 100 songs to the same demographic over and over and over.
> 
> 
> Q107 used to be great when the DJ's would actually listen to new music & make their own playlists..now it's a big corporate walkover of recycled music


Imho, traditional radio is dead, even my beloved CBC is nearly in the grave. Online radio is the way to go. I'm listening to it now.

Peace, Mooh.


----------



## dwagar

Mooh said:


> Imho, traditional radio is dead, even my beloved CBC is nearly in the grave. Online radio is the way to go. I'm listening to it now.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


I agree. I never thought I'd be forced to pay for radio, but I've gone to satellite radio in my car. The standard 20 song light rock mix set on repeat on most stations makes me gag.


----------



## Gene Machine

*yup*



bolero said:


> plus all those "classic rock" radio stations are giving it a bad name....playing the same 100 songs to the same demographic over and over and over.
> 
> 
> Q107 used to be great when the DJ's would actually listen to new music & make their own playlists..now it's a big corporate walkover of recycled music


I signed up for live365.com. they have a bunch of free stations, you name it. they even have a) an Allman Brothers' station and b) a Journey station, and c) a Frank Zappa station (I know, I know, but what can I say, every now and then you want a certain kind of music).

There are still 'Classic Rock' bands putting out new stuff, but the CR stations only play the old stuff. 

I'd love to turn on the radio in my car and here Derek Trucks. But I know it ain't gonna happen.

G.


----------



## Gene Machine

*ya know*

I was just thinking as I wrote my last post, that the music biz in general is changing BIG time. In the 70's, it was Album oriented rock, big concerts, and disco. Then in the 80's, Video killed the radio star. Everything was about Rock videos and selling albums through your videos.

Then late 90's Napster had people downloading stuff, and now with Itunes and all the online MP3 venues, anyone can 1) make an album with pro tools 2) distribute it on internet and probably not make a lot of cash with it (a lot of illegal copying) and 3)) your seeing big concerts coming back where tickets are sky high $100+ each.

So maybe with all the internet downloading, bands will have to go out and tour, play to people to make money. 

There are a couple local venues that carry original bands. Places that would carry, for example Joe Bonamassa or Garrett Mason. But, most of the bars I've played locally are at best $400/night venues that only do cover bands. 

Sorry, not sure what my point is in all this, just some random thoughts. I just finished a 12 hour backshift.... LOL

g.


----------



## Rugburn

LOVE Live365. Too many stations to choose from.
:smile:


----------



## david henman

...you beat me to it, wild bill!

in going through a bunch of old paper recently, i found some of my journals from the 70s, when i fronted an original and decidedly raunchy punk rock band called the debutantes in quebec. although none of us had day jobs and were practically living on the street, we would never have agreed to play for the pitiful $300-$350 per night that clubs now offer. i haven't been offered a two-nighter in decades, except for the ganny in port hope. in the 70s, many clubs hired you for a five-to-six day run, and often provided free accomodations.

meaning that, as bill said, we could afford a decent sound and light system, and pay people to run it.

at sixty-one, i now find myself transporting, carrying and running my own sound and lights.

good thing i love to play!

-dh




Wild Bill said:


> I've heard this so many times yet each time I could just cry and cry again.
> 
> We've slipped so far!
> 
> Back in the early 70's (before the last Ice Age) I was a roadie for a 'C' level band. We played around Ontario, based out of Hamilton. We weren't considered good enough to get many gigs in Hamilton and certainly never in Toronto. So we would play from WallaceBurg through small town after small town, all the way up to Hurst and Kapuskasing and then back down to home.
> 
> We would do this as a tour for 6-9 months at a time, playing mostly 3 nighters and 6 nighters, depending on the size of the club. Clubs in those days were MUCH larger than today! Even a small town like Seabringville outside of Stratford would have a club that could hold a couple of hundred people. Clubs were for drinking and dancing. People thought nothing of driving 20 miles to see a band that they liked.
> 
> We would play the odd high school dance on the tour. We could get enough from two high schools back to back Friday and Saturday nights to equal one 3 night engagement at a club.
> 
> So how much did we get paid? Typically $1600 for a 3 nighter and $2400 for 6 nights. We charged $800-$900 for a high school dance.
> 
> Remember, gasoline at the time was maybe $0.25/gallon, which is 4.55 litres! A pack of smokes was about $0.35. A draft beer was $0.25.
> 
> We had our own converted school bus and our own PA.
> 
> As their roadie I slugged gear, mixed the sound and ran the lights during the performances. Just about every club was large enough with a real stage area in front of the dance floor that I could run my sound and lights from the back, through 75-100 foot 'snake' cables. PA was not as sophisticated as that of today and more expensive so we miked the vocals, maybe 4 mikes on the drums and one each for the guitars and bass.
> 
> Because the clubs were bigger they could sell enough beer to pay for bands like us. Because people had more disposable income for fun/entertainment they could come out 6 nights a week, if they cared enough!
> 
> With that kind of money, we put on a REAL show! A dedicated front man singer, who didn't have to play a guitar! TWO main guitarists, doing lots of harmony leads! Fog and smoke bombs! Stage clothes for all the players!
> 
> Now a band is lucky to get a Friday or a Saturday night. The club might have 50 people, tops. There's often no real stage but a corner with one plug for the whole band. In Hamilton there's usually no dance floor. The owners don't want to give up a couple of tables' worth of chicken wings!
> 
> Since there's such poor money, the bands are usually just 3 piece. The set lists are all very similar. Easy standards so the players don't have to rehearse much, if at all. The players go on stage in jeans and tshirt, often with a baseball cap turned backwards. You can't tell until they go on stage that they're the entertainment. They look like some guys who just stumbled in the door.
> 
> No fancy lights. No fog machines. No harmony licks. No dedicated front man. Just one guitarist doing pretty well all the vocal duties as well. 3-part vocal harmonies? Hah! You're lucky if the drummer and bass will add the odd shoutback, let alone sing along in harmony.
> 
> So I don't go out much anymore. Just the odd set to catch one of my customers and hear how my amp work sounds! It's friendship and business with the players, not to actually get entertained.
> 
> Compared to what I grew up with, today's scene is just too lame ass! It's been said that we older boomers won't come out to clubs so there's no point in catering to our tastes. I can't speak for everyone my age but I know that for myself, the product being offered is such a sad shadow of the 'glory days' that there's just no way I'm gonna drag myself out.
> 
> Call me an old fart but I'd rather just sit at home with my vinyl collection, thank you!
> 
> :food-smiley-004:


----------



## Robert1950

Our band in the 60s (high school) got paid $100+ a number of times. The highest was $150. We also did a couple of weekends at the Myna Bird in Yorkville - but we only got paid $40 a night. But I think we would have done that for free. Our band was really tight and did well there. We would have gone back except threats from parents about playing in that evil hippie den with their mary-gee-wanna and stuff and girlfriends who didn't want to spend weekends at home.

And about vinyl - I gave mine away to my brother ten years ago. found it too much too look after, especially after I lost twenty percent of it to minor flood damage.


----------



## Wild Bill

david henman said:


> ...you beat me to it, wild bill!
> 
> in going through a bunch of old paper recently, i found some of my journals from the 70s, when i fronted an original and decidedly raunchy punk rock band called the debutantes in quebec. although none of us had day jobs and were practically living on the street, we would never have agreed to play for the pitiful $300-$350 per night that clubs now offer. i haven't been offered a two-nighter in decades, except for the ganny in port hope. in the 70s, many clubs hired you for a five-to-six day run, and often provided free accomodations.
> 
> meaning that, as bill said, we could afford a decent sound and light system, and pay people to run it.
> 
> at sixty-one, i now find myself transporting, carrying and running my own sound and lights.
> 
> good thing i love to play!
> 
> -dh


I forgot about rooms for the band included, David! There was the Crystal Beach Hotel, where there were all kinds of wads of tissue paper stuffed into holes in the ceiling to keep the rain out!

The fire escape was a rope coiled by a window. The funny thing was that an extension had been built to the hotel so the rope didn't provide access to the ground. It just flopped onto the roof of the extension! Stepping out of the window did exactly the same thing.

Most times the linen was clean but I guess the owners grew tired of bands trashing rooms after a while. Often we would have 4 or 5 sheets on top of each other, so that the holes were overlapped.

The food was usually good! Hotels in those days didn't cater to an evening dining crowd. They catered to working men who would stop in for lunch, ordering a meat loaf plate with their beer. Good hearty food at a cheap price. That's where the old saying came from: "If the sandwich is free you're paying too much for the beer!"

When we played Northern Ontario in the winter, every hotel was heated with hot water systems. The hot water for the taps and showers was always scalding! We used to make instant coffee with hot water straight from the tap. We didn't need a kettle.

The old-fashioned storm windows were our refrigerator! You could keep cold cuts, milk and lettuce between the inner and outer windows. By adjusting how much the inner window was raised let you adjust the temperature of your 'refrigerator'!

One night we caught a 'rubbie' crawling along the outside window ledge, trying to steal our cold cuts! We thought this was hilarious! We felt sorry for the old bum and made him a sandwich.

Those were the happiest, most fun-filled times of my life!

:food-smiley-004:


----------



## marcos

*Gig money*

You had linen on the beds and a fire escape rope.Wow,pretty fancy place if you ask me.LOL.Some of the places i played in the 60's(across from Hawksberry Ont.)a dump called the BarX had no linen or sheets,no doors just a curtain and the fire escape was a window(from the second floor)The guy who ran it had a great name and I kid you not,It was Fred Crook.He ran a tight ship cause it was a biker bar and lets just say he kept the peace with a loaded 45 under is coat at all times.I miss those days too.LOL:smilie_flagge17:











Wild Bill said:


> I forgot about rooms for the band included, David! There was the Crystal Beach Hotel, where there were all kinds of wads of tissue paper stuffed into holes in the ceiling to keep the rain out!
> 
> The fire escape was a rope coiled by a window. The funny thing was that an extension had been built to the hotel so the rope didn't provide access to the ground. It just flopped onto the roof of the extension! Stepping out of the window did exactly the same thing.
> 
> Most times the linen was clean but I guess the owners grew tired of bands trashing rooms after a while. Often we would have 4 or 5 sheets on top of each other, so that the holes were overlapped.
> 
> The food was usually good! Hotels in those days didn't cater to an evening dining crowd. They catered to working men who would stop in for lunch, ordering a meat loaf plate with their beer. Good hearty food at a cheap price. That's where the old saying came from: "If the sandwich is free you're paying too much for the beer!"
> 
> When we played Northern Ontario in the winter, every hotel was heated with hot water systems. The hot water for the taps and showers was always scalding! We used to make instant coffee with hot water straight from the tap. We didn't need a kettle.
> 
> The old-fashioned storm windows were our refrigerator! You could keep cold cuts, milk and lettuce between the inner and outer windows. By adjusting how much the inner window was raised let you adjust the temperature of your 'refrigerator'!
> 
> One night we caught a 'rubbie' crawling along the outside window ledge, trying to steal our cold cuts! We thought this was hilarious! We felt sorry for the old bum and made him a sandwich.
> 
> Those were the happiest, most fun-filled times of my life!
> 
> :food-smiley-004:


----------



## RIFF WRATH

off topic............lol...........Bill, you just described my old farmhouse.........renovations coming soon .............lol


----------



## fretboard

Thanks for the Wallaceburg reference Wild Bill - I lived there for a bit in the 70's - 80's. Gonna guess the Riviera Tavern or the Weber Hotel for the Wallaceburg hotspots back then. 

I can remember going to my guitar lessons once in the mid-80's and my teacher telling me "we're going to see someone for today's guitar lesson." We walked about 3 blocks to the Riv Tavern and Ted Nugent was in there noodling on some other bands gear. He said he was doing some hunting in and around the area (Paincourt & Walpole Island) and needed to drop the bow for a while and bend some different kinds of strings. Chatted us up quite nicely for an hour or so on a whole mess of topics. 

My dad wasn't too happy waiting an extra 30 minutes or more for me, only to see wandering back to the music store without my guitar case in my hands and the smell of beer on my underage breath.


----------



## 4345567

__________


----------



## Wild Bill

nkjanssen said:


> Luxury! Most of the places I played in the 60's didn't even have beds. You had to sleep sitting upright on a bicycle with no seat. There were no doors, no windows and certainly no fire escape. Every night they'd seal you up in a room with mortar and bricks. You had to keep pedalling the bicycle all night to pump air into the room. Then, at 5am every morning, they'd jackhammer you out and start it all over the next day.
> 
> It was tough, but we liked it that way. Man, those were good times.


You got sealed in a ROOM? We would have killed for a room! We had to sleep in a hole in the road, with a layer of tar for a blanket!

We would have given anything to be sealed up in a room!

Air? You got to pump air?----

:food-smiley-004:


----------



## bolero

you guys are killing me here....LOL

more war stories!!





fretboard said:


> I can remember going to my guitar lessons once in the mid-80's and my teacher telling me "we're going to see someone for today's guitar lesson." We walked about 3 blocks to the Riv Tavern and Ted Nugent was in there noodling on some other bands gear. He said he was doing some hunting in and around the area (Paincourt & Walpole Island) and needed to drop the bow for a while and bend some different kinds of strings. Chatted us up quite nicely for an hour or so on a whole mess of topics.
> 
> My dad wasn't too happy waiting an extra 30 minutes or more for me, only to see wandering back to the music store without my guitar case in my hands and the smell of beer on my underage breath.



that's awesome :bow: :bow:


----------



## scottomy

the way my band sees it, we get paid to lug the equipment back and forth...we play for free!


----------



## marcos

*Money per gig.*

Now thats funny Scott.Your sense of humour will help you through the tough times.:rockon2:








scottomy said:


> the way my band sees it, we get paid to lug the equipment back and forth...we play for free!


----------



## peter benn

It's actually worse in Toronto now. A lot of the bar market has evolved into two versions of "play for free."

In the first, younger and hipper version, maximum advantage is made of a younger band's energy and desire to play for their friends. Band gets nothing and must run their own door. In extreme cases, scuttlebutt has it, bands actually pay to play up front, as well as do the ticket thing.

In the second, "jam night" version, one person gets small money to host a jam, in an attempt to build a neighbourhood cult on the night or afternoon in question, much like the old days. It can be a useful venue for pro musicians to use to top up chops between appearances, and of course a great thing for beginners and medium players.

Advantages are the supplied backline of some basic sort, eliminating transportation overhead, and a limited time commitment for the performer. 

Disadvantage include buying your own drinks, the luck of the draw with your fellow players/performers, a certain sameness in the material played, and, for the host, the embarrassment of having the venue's Karaoke night outdraw your jam night. 

Improving things brings up the irony of expanding the host's budget to pay for a resident competent bass player, then a rhythm section. Which isn't going to happen for the small neighbourhood places.


----------



## david henman

scottomy said:


> the way my band sees it, we get paid to lug the equipment back and forth...we play for free!



...ain't that the truth!!!!

-dh


----------



## jfk911

haha getting paid i think my band gets paid for about half our shows and we maybe get about 100 bucks for the band. that's is in part because we are an original band and we are metal but i play cause i love music not to make money that's the way that i look at it


----------



## Steve_F

I've made everything from 20 bucks to 200, honestly, I'm just in it because I enjoy playing so much, it's nice to get some cash out of it, but so long as my gas and stuff is covered, I'm really not too concerned.


----------



## Milkman

peter benn said:


> It's actually worse in Toronto now. A lot of the bar market has evolved into two versions of "play for free."
> 
> In the first, younger and hipper version, maximum advantage is made of a younger band's energy and desire to play for their friends. Band gets nothing and must run their own door. In extreme cases, scuttlebutt has it, bands actually pay to play up front, as well as do the ticket thing.
> 
> In the second, "jam night" version, one person gets small money to host a jam, in an attempt to build a neighbourhood cult on the night or afternoon in question, much like the old days. It can be a useful venue for pro musicians to use to top up chops between appearances, and of course a great thing for beginners and medium players.
> 
> Advantages are the supplied backline of some basic sort, eliminating transportation overhead, and a limited time commitment for the performer.
> 
> Disadvantage include buying your own drinks, the luck of the draw with your fellow players/performers, a certain sameness in the material played, and, for the host, the embarrassment of having the venue's Karaoke night outdraw your jam night.
> 
> Improving things brings up the irony of expanding the host's budget to pay for a resident competent bass player, then a rhythm section. Which isn't going to happen for the small neighbourhood places.



And the third "play for free" variation that sucks many young bands in is the "Battle of the Bands".

These guys often charge an entrance fee of $50 or more and then push the young bands to sell tickets. 

Then, basically the most popular band wins because their fans populate the bar.


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## Phatchrisrules

I don't think I have too much to input here as we are only playing our fourth show this Friday, but I'll try. I agree with many of the above posters about how bands don't do anything entertaining anymore. I have seen my fair share of bands play and I would have to say maybe about 6 or 7 have even been entertaining. If you look bored, your audience will be bored because they think you just aren't into it or just don't care. Most of the bands I see play like they have cement in their shoes and are forbidden to move. Frankly, it bores me to tears to see them do that. Sure, you can make up for it if the music is awesome but stage presence IMO is at least half of the battle when performing.

When my band plays, we try to have fun and we jump around and I played a solo on my knees last time. We're just kids (well 20) who are up there having fun and trying to play our music. We'll crack jokes and stuff just to lighten the atmosphere. I think another part of the problem is every band is starting to sound exactly the same as everyone else. As Jack Endino once said "People plagiarize more than they think" or something to that effect. I can't tell you how many times I could have sworn I heard the exact same song being played by the band before the one currently playing. They all try and sound like a mix of Fall Out Boy, Nickelback, and Sam Roberts. Which is fine, I don't care what type of music you are into but they even start dressing the same and acting the same which is the scary part. 

I don't really know where I am going with this, I just like to have fun when I play and hopefully the audience enjoys it. I always think of this before I go on stage, they PAYED to see you tonight, give them something to enjoy. Oh and so far we have been $30 for one afternoon, so $10 each. I never said I was in it for the money!


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## lbrown1

being new to the gigging thing - having started this whole guitar obsession later in life...I started out jamming with some seasoned musicians that I knew as friends, acquaintances and co-workers....I basically brought us all together because I was itching to play.......this turned into a little project which resulted in my first paying gig was last summer - it wasn't much - but it felt pretty good to get any money at all...I mean to be thought of as worth paying to see / hear - that was HUGE for me.......it was a birthday party with approx 70 or 80 people of all ages in attendance. Luckily there were a few seasoned musicians in the project that knew to ensure the set list was going to be likable to all ages - people were there from age 6 to 60 (note to self - if you want to play indulgent rock songs - pick from the "Rock Band or Guitar Hero" song list - the kids loved it.)

We have a charity show lined up this summer here in Oshawa in support of Cancer research.....but we have only gotten these because of who we know (well - we did have to submit a recording too so they'd be sure we didn't suck)...

since I am now starting a new project - with the intent on paying regular performances - not only have I found this thread incredibly informative on what kind of $$$ to charge - but to also stay away from bars and clubs as potential venus....sounds cutthroat - all I want to do is play ...getting paid for us is important - it establishes value in what you're providing - and there are costs to cover....but we all have day jobs and no delusions of anything greater.

but we also need to learn a thing or 2 about how to get gigs - which is another thread altogether I guess.


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## marcos

*Money per gig.*

I think you are heading in the right direction and with the right attitude.The more i read this column,the more i sense that some musicians are still passionate enough and just want to have fun.When I started this thread,it was about money or lack of it.Now i see it differently.Its good to get paid,but its better to have fun on stage.Also, we must not forget the people who do this for a living and encourage them when we can.Maybe there is hope for us yet!!!:smilie_flagge17:















lbrown1 said:


> being new to the gigging thing - having started this whole guitar obsession later in life...I started out jamming with some seasoned musicians that I knew as friends, acquaintances and co-workers....I basically brought us all together because I was itching to play.......this turned into a little project which resulted in my first paying gig was last summer - it wasn't much - but it felt pretty good to get any money at all...I mean to be thought of as worth paying to see / hear - that was HUGE for me.......it was a birthday party with approx 70 or 80 people of all ages in attendance. Luckily there were a few seasoned musicians in the project that knew to ensure the set list was going to be likable to all ages - people were there from age 6 to 60 (note to self - if you want to play indulgent rock songs - pick from the "Rock Band or Guitar Hero" song list - the kids loved it.)
> 
> We have a charity show lined up this summer here in Oshawa in support of Cancer research.....but we have only gotten these because of who we know (well - we did have to submit a recording too so they'd be sure we didn't suck)...
> 
> since I am now starting a new project - with the intent on paying regular performances - not only have I found this thread incredibly informative on what kind of $$$ to charge - but to also stay away from bars and clubs as potential venus....sounds cutthroat - all I want to do is play ...getting paid for us is important - it establishes value in what you're providing - and there are costs to cover....but we all have day jobs and no delusions of anything greater.
> 
> but we also need to learn a thing or 2 about how to get gigs - which is another thread altogether I guess.


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## BMCM

I played last Saturday night and made $150. It was a bar. Private gigs are normally $250 per man.


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## MachineGunMolly

Humm,last time i played in front of an audience,was also my first gig ever.
I played cheap bass,for "Climax"at a after-ski party in Tremblant.
I was supposed to make 100$,but it ended up,it was us howing money to the bar management,after "FrankyFarGone" Guitar/Vocal when into crazy Gear destruction,a rack mount device and a 4x12marshall from bar management
was dammaged in the process.Francis being a total gentleman gave me some
appologies and my 100$...since i had ALOT of fun and never felt so alive,i told him to keep the cash and call me back whenever he need me.
Man that gotta be rock n roll!
-MGM-


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## Big_Daddy

fretboard said:


> Thanks for the Wallaceburg reference Wild Bill - I lived there for a bit in the 70's - 80's. Gonna guess the Riviera Tavern or the Weber Hotel for the Wallaceburg hotspots back then.
> 
> I can remember going to my guitar lessons once in the mid-80's and my teacher telling me "we're going to see someone for today's guitar lesson." We walked about 3 blocks to the Riv Tavern and Ted Nugent was in there noodling on some other bands gear. He said he was doing some hunting in and around the area (Paincourt & Walpole Island) and needed to drop the bow for a while and bend some different kinds of strings. Chatted us up quite nicely for an hour or so on a whole mess of topics.
> 
> My dad wasn't too happy waiting an extra 30 minutes or more for me, only to see wandering back to the music store without my guitar case in my hands and the smell of beer on my underage breath.


This thread is fun and entertaining and brings back a lot of memories. The reference to Wallyburg cracks me up coz I grew up near there (Port Lambton) and played my first professional gig in the Burg at the CBD club in 1965. The reference to Teddie Nugent is even crazier as I used to see him play in the area a lot in the 60's at Rondeau, even at the local High School, WDSS. Bob Seger and the Last Herd were also regulars in the area. 

When I went to Western in '69, I joined up with some other students and formed a band that played the local clubs like the York, the Vic, the CPR (the Ceeps). Standard payment for these old bars was $35-$50 per night _for the whole band._. The kicker was that we got a tray of draft after every set (20 draft per tray) and played 5 sets a night. Truly drunk rock in every sense of the word. For any of you UWO grads, we were the very first live act to ever play at the Spoke & Rim. I think we got paid $150 for that gig and we thought we had made it. :rockon2: We even had an acoustic version (unplugged) of the band and played the local coffee houses when we weren't rockin' out on Led Zep, Stones, Jethro Tull, etc. The point is, _we wanted to play_, any way we could and for pretty much any kind of money (or booze) we could get.


When the rock venues dried up, I moved onto bluegrass 'coz _that's what the people wanted to hear_, playing a circuit of clubs in New Dundee, Milverton, Paris, Seaforth, London and venues like Home County Folk Festival, and Mariposa. We had a 5 piece group called Homemade Stew with 2 beautiful girls up front, guitar, banjo and stand-up bass, 4-part harmonies and, gawd was that fun. Average gig was 6 nights and we made $150-250 a week each, depending on the take. So, it was in our interest to pack the place

Life and the music pulled me out to BC. Just like some other previous posters, if we couldn't find a gig, we would make our own...rent a community centre in New Denver, Nakusp, Kaslo, wherever, for $100, put up posters, charge $5 admission and pack the place coz people were starving for a good time. We would often make $200 each a night and once we did this in a town, we could count on coming back in 5 or 6 weeks and pack the place again. People wanted to _dance_.

The most I ever made at playing was with a Top 40 power trio out of Port Coquitlam called Workshy. We were getting $1500-2000 a week and were constantly on the road. I remember packing up in 100 Mile House on a Saturday night and have to be in Fort St. John (900 miles away) for Monday night, do six nights there, then haul ass over to Saskatoon for the following Monday, the 3 of us and all our equipment packed so tight into my van that no one even had room to lie down to sleep. Talk about getting paid, how about paying your dues?

I finally hung it up in '86 when I came back to London and there was no place left to play....DJ's had taken over the clubs. I feel for guys trying to make a living in the present environment. It doesn't sound like too much has changed since I became a basement rock star.

Thanks for indulging me.


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## Gene Machine

*interesting*

kuul story, Big Daddy.

When I was in high school/college, there were a few local musicians who told me to get a day job and play music for fun. So that's what I did. As you say, the DJs have a lot of the market tied up. still play in bars, but it's for fun, not for a living.

Gene


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## Mark N

We are a quartet and are located in New Brunswick...we get $600 a gig. My neighbour's band commands $1500 plus per gig...so go figure


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## fretboard

Nice work, Big Daddy.

My wife is a Lambtonite - well technically from out on Lambton Line, but still close enough...

By the time I made it to WDSS (1984), the only band coming to town that I remember was The Romantics... I do remember going to the CBD to watch a few of my buddies older brothers playing there.

And to think, my brother and I went to Detroit to see Seger at some point - we should have just asked him to come back to Wallaceburg and play for us there.


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## Big_Daddy

fretboard said:


> Nice work, Big Daddy.
> 
> My wife is a Lambtonite - well technically from out on Lambton Line, but still close enough...
> 
> By the time I made it to WDSS (1984), the only band coming to town that I remember was The Romantics... I do remember going to the CBD to watch a few of my buddies older brothers playing there.
> 
> And to think, my brother and I went to Detroit to see Seger at some point - we should have just asked him to come back to Wallaceburg and play for us there.



Small world, eh? We probably know a lot of the same people.:smile:


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## Guest

Gotta love those DJs. It must take hours of practice to learn how to push buttons like that. I hope the copyright police decide to ride them one day and hopefully live entertainment will come back into vogue. Up here in Sudbury, the scene took a dive in the eighties when kids started offering their F+ services for $800/3 day. The decent bands were commanding +$1200 at the time. It was a slippery slope from then on. Then came DJs for $500, then the smoking laws, well you know the story. I'd rather play at my buddy's garage in Levac for beer instead of getting raped by our little Sudbury business :sport-smiley-002:men.


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## JimiGuy7

I think this all has to do with whether you are an original or cover act. I know that we get paid, as an original act, between $400-700 in bars that know who we are. But, the bars that don't, well I don't expect too much from them. We have seen $100-200 and half of the door, which may or may not work out in your favor. Sometimes we have seen no money at all. I mean as an original act, sometimes just playing in a new town and getting your name out there is your payment. Maybe you sell a couple of CD's and get some more food and gas money. But, as a cover band, which I played in a few years ago, we could get $100 per person easliy, a lot of times we got a lot more then that, like $200 a person for one night. The thing that sets bands apart is professionalism, press package. Whether your a cover or original act, a press pack will always make you stand out from the rest. In ours we have a band photo and individual shots with a band bio and a copy of our album, to give them an idea of what to expect. When I was in the cover band, we had a band shot and a copy of our entire set list witha little bit of a bio on the band. The bar owners always say that is what set us apart from the rest of the bands, as a cover act, and as an original act you never know when you are going to need one. Also, like most of the other forum members have said, having a PA does'nt hurt. It will pay for itself in no time, plus, you can generate more income for your band by eliminating the cost of PA rentals. Dont mean to blab, just trying to help.


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## shoretyus

Big_Daddy said:


> Life and the music pulled me out to BC. Just like some other previous posters, if we couldn't find a gig, we would make our own...rent a community centre in New Denver, Nakusp, Kaslo,


Yikes..... Nakusp...... what a town that was in the 70's .... can you say hippies from Oshawa .. ha ha ...


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## Big_Daddy

shoretyus said:


> Yikes..... Nakusp...... what a town that was in the 70's .... can you say hippies from Oshawa .. ha ha ...



HaHa! Sure can and I knew a few of them! In fact, the lead singer in our band.


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## lbrown1

*resurrecting an old thread*

we're a hobby band like many others...and we have done a lot of performances for either a) free (really to get to know each other and get known) or b) free for one charity or another...

but we're getting our first corporate gig this coming Dec- a relatively small Xmas party - 2 hours of play time.....$1000

I'm thinking this is the place to look for more gigs

we're not in this to make $$ really, but with that kind of scratch, we can sure start upgrading the equipment we use...this will pay for a new headphone monitor system - YESSSSSS


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## JonDrover

Its all about supply and demand. If you offer something that is in high demand and short in supply you will get more money.

The big dollars are in corporate gigs and festivals. To even be considered for these gigs you have to offer something that is different, professional and good!!! If some company is going to fork out $3000 to have you perform at their event they need to be assured that everyone is going to have a good time.

My current band (in Newfoundland) was a standard five piece and we got about $600-$800 per night. We added a horn section, changed up the set list and two years later we're playing corporate gigs for $2500-$3000 per show.

Cheers, 
Jon_


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## neilli

I'm in a Metallica tribute band based in Vancouver, and earnings tend to vary greatly. Vancouver is a shitty city for live music, so we've earned anywhere between nothing and $500 for playing in town. Our best market is Whistler (ski resort) which is just up the road and we get $1500 per show, plus hotels and food. And generally a big turnout and a great show because it's a holiday town...


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## valriver40

the last time i played for money i recived 3.00 dollars. that was in 1959. there were three of us. is was a country dance. we played from 9-1 am. the other two members of the band have passed away.


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## marcos

*How much money*

That is the saddest story i have ever herd.





valriver40 said:


> the last time i played for money i recived 3.00 dollars. that was in 1959. there were three of us. is was a country dance. we played from 9-1 am. the other two members of the band have passed away.


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## Gretsch6120

valriver40 said:


> the last time i played for money i recived 3.00 dollars. that was in 1959. there were three of us. is was a country dance. we played from 9-1 am. the other two members of the band have passed away.


Sounds almost like the last time I played and got paid, everything sounds about right except for the year and everyone is still alive in my band.


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## Allfingers

I've played solo classical a few times at fund raisers. Background solos in dim lighting while the guests stroll around the plant conservatory, etc. These are put on by the energy conpanies here in Calgary for the SPCA, Zoo, Glenbow Museum, etc. They usually pay $350 to $500 for the night...all of which my wife and I always donate back to whatever cause is being helped out.

We get far more return in the long run from contacts we make in the energy industry in which we both work in as consulting geologists. We can have fun and help a good cause in the community at the same time.


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## bagpipe

valriver40 said:


> the last time i played for money i recived 3.00 dollars. that was in 1959. there were three of us. is was a country dance. we played from 9-1 am. the other two members of the band have passed away.


any videos ?


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## Gee-ter Guy

Yes i know this is off topic (sorry) but Can a band run there own sound? we have a P.A system but we dont need someone runnin it for us right??


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## lbrown1

Gee-ter Guy said:


> Yes i know this is off topic (sorry) but Can a band run there own sound? we have a P.A system but we dont need someone runnin it for us right??


our bass player runs sound while he's playing.......he ventures out in front of the mains from time to time (he uses wireless) - while it looks like he's trying to engage the crowd, he's really trying to make sure the sound is still where it should be for the house


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## robare99

We play generally corporate parties, and this one bar. We are paid well for the night. But that being said, we roll in with well over $25k worth of gear (all mine, except for the other musicians personal instruments, amps etc) we have a buddy who will mix us via iPad for the bigger gigs, other than that, we mix from the stage My drum mics alone cost over $1500. We bring full on lights & sound for our gigs. 

5000W FOH
1500W monitors.


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## captainbrew

We're a 4 piece funk/blues band and we generally make 400-500 per show. Enough to pay for our rehearsal space and some studio time as well as misc band expenses. We've also only started playing shows recently so maybe the money will get better?
We love playing so getting paid is a bonus.


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## hollowbody

robare99 said:


> We play generally corporate parties, and this one bar. We are paid well for the night. But that being said, we roll in with well over $25k worth of gear (all mine, except for the other musicians personal instruments, amps etc) we have a buddy who will mix us via iPad for the bigger gigs, other than that, we mix from the stage My drum mics alone cost over $1500. We bring full on lights & sound for our gigs.
> 
> 5000W FOH
> 1500W monitors.


Wow. That is a pretty sweet setup! Need another guitarist?? 



captainbrew said:


> We're a 4 piece funk/blues band and we generally make 400-500 per show. Enough to pay for our rehearsal space and some studio time as well as misc band expenses. We've also only started playing shows recently so maybe the money will get better?
> We love playing so getting paid is a bonus.


Yeah, that's pretty much where my band is at as well. None of us are doing it to get rich, we're just weekend rockers. It's a hobby that now pays for itself, so I can't complain!


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## robare99

hollowbody said:


> Wow. That is a pretty sweet setup! Need another guitarist??


That's my all time favorite/all time hated venue. 

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/a398c5b1.jpg
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/3cfa472a.jpg
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/2fb4f26b.jpg

All time favorite, in that I love a nice big stage to move around on. All time hated because of this:The way they rent the place is by the day. So you load in that day, but then you have to load out after the gig. If the guy has to let you in the next day, they are charged another day. TOTALLY sucks. 

Because of that, this is my favorite venue...Rodeo Grounds. (this was with my old mixer/racks)

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/49da7c8c.jpg


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## hollowbody

robare99 said:


> All time favorite, in that I love a nice big stage to move around on. All time hated because of this:The way they rent the place is by the day. So you load in that day, but then you have to load out after the gig. If the guy has to let you in the next day, they are charged another day. TOTALLY sucks.


Ouch, yeah, I know how much of a pain it is for my 5-piece to load out the same night. I thought the stage was yours too, that would have been even worse!!

Normally, we have a 16ch mixer in a case, 2x powered mains, 2 or 3x power monitors, 2 guitar amps, drums, bass kit, etc. so we're lugging around a bunch of gear as well. We're just shy the keys and the subs 

I filled in for a friend's band playing an outdoor private party and they had a tent we had to put up, as well as the stage and all the PA gear, etc. Man, was that ever a long day! And it all came down that same night. I think I'm STILL sore from that gig!!!


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## robare99

Nice!! Yeah the stage is part of the venue. Its only a few years old, and doesn't leave the site. The town has another older stage that gets rented out. It's in not as nice shape. The ironic thing, is there's a stage right behind us. During renovations, they boarded over it and closed it up. It's still there behind the wall, and is used for storage now. 

-facepalm-

We do a couple tent gigs a year. I try to time it so we are there after the tent is up. 

LoL

http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/0a97e831.jpg 

It was raining so I built a secondary tent over the Mixer/racks, just in case(old setup) 
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/30d02488.jpg


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## hollowbody

This is the tent we played under (this was when we were still a four-piece and opened for the band I was filling in for). It was too low for the stage to be set up properly, so we just laid the board down flat on the ground 

It pissed rain all day while we were loading in and setting up, but cleared up after the tent was up. Boooo!!!!


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## robare99

Nice!! That's what we do as well, just lay the stage decks on the ground, it's about all you can do.


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## Morkolo

Back when I used to play around we could get $3-400 split between the three of us. Then the clubs stopped using their own soundman and PA systems... $3-400 doesn't go far when you have to hire a soundman at $150 and then get gouged for a PA system. In the end we weren't even paying for the gas and a few beer for the night.


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## Mooh

We recently started using a soundman instead of trying to do our own sound from the stage. It was a matter of whether and how we split the fee. We all felt it was fair to split the sound guy in for an even share, and why not, he's there as long as the rest of us and works just as hard. Besides, he makes us sound better. So, we all take a little less to sound a lot better. We've tried to offset this by attempting to negotiate a higher fee. If we make $100 each per show at least we get work in this miserable live music economy.

Peace, Mooh.


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## hollowbody

Mooh said:


> We recently started using a soundman instead of trying to do our own sound from the stage. It was a matter of whether and how we split the fee. We all felt it was fair to split the sound guy in for an even share, and why not, he's there as long as the rest of us and works just as hard. Besides, he makes us sound better. So, we all take a little less to sound a lot better. We've tried to offset this by attempting to negotiate a higher fee. If we make $100 each per show at least we get work in this miserable live music economy.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


$100/person is about what I like too. Of course, the more the better. Unfortunately, as a 5 piece, we get stuck with a lot of bars that don't want to pay more than $400, so we get shorted because we choose to be a 5-piece.


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## robare99

Yeah, a sound guy makes a big difference. I do sound when I'm not playing with my band. I know I make a difference when I'm doing sound for other bands. I mix them, adjust the monitor mix, bring up solos etc stc. They just sound better, and can concentrate on their performance.


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## allthumbs56

Anyone got any rules-of-thumb for wedding gigs? We've been approached for one and I just know that it's a whole nuther' deal. Anybody active in this market? What time commitment is required (meetings/planning/new tunes, etc)? How's that reflect in the rate? Do I need to get my powder blue tux out of storage?


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## captainbrew

allthumbs56 said:


> Anyone got any rules-of-thumb for wedding gigs? We've been approached for one and I just know that it's a whole nuther' deal. Anybody active in this market? What time commitment is required (meetings/planning/new tunes, etc)? How's that reflect in the rate? Do I need to get my powder blue tux out of storage?


I"ve only ever done traditional gigs and parties. Can't help you with the weddings, sorry.


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## marcos

allthumbs56 said:


> Anyone got any rules-of-thumb for wedding gigs? We've been approached for one and I just know that it's a whole nuther' deal. Anybody active in this market? What time commitment is required (meetings/planning/new tunes, etc)? How's that reflect in the rate? Do I need to get my powder blue tux out of storage?


Done over 100 and all of the above may apply to you.More time consuming than a normal bar gig and you will need to meet face to face to plan it all. Some people want additional music during super time( cd's,MP3's etccc) Usually a 4 hr. gig should do it unless the party takes off and they want more so best negotiate this before the end. Learning new tunes is a pain in the butt. Some people will ask for ridiculous songs that cant be performed by you or your band (Céline Dion etc....) Suggest having a MP3 player if you cant perform their request. Dress well. Not a tux but clean pants('no jeans !!!!) black shirt or jacket on top,clean shoes(no sneakers) Last but not least, the money. Ask them what they have for a budget and work from there. Some have thousands to spare and some dont. Be reasonable and charge extra for the prerecorded music if you have to supply it. Look at about 150.00 to 200.00 each musician for the gig and if you get more then more power to you.
I hate playing recorded music during breaks and what I ask them is that they supply the music and you will put it through your sound system and tell them you will not be responsible for the choice of music (you'll see when some kids ask you to play Lady Gaga,hip hop,rap music that you never herd before and get upset when you tell them you dont have it)
Other than that you should be o.k 
Good luck!!!!


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