# Gibson Takes Advantage Of Easy PR Opportunity



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Gibson obviously saw an advantage here and like most companies do nowadays, trumpeted their "good deed" all over their web page so the world would know what good Samaritans they are. 

A good deed is a good deed when you do it without letting others know what you did.

[h=1]Gibson Saves the Day[/h]*Andrew Vaughan*
|
01.10.2013















Earlier this week musician Dave Schneider was told by Delta Airlines that he couldn’t carry on his 1963 Gibson ES-335 TD guitar on a flight to Detroit and had to check it.
Unfortunately, on landing, Schneider discovered that his guitar had been crushed between a service elevator and loading dock at the gate.
Dave turned down Delta’s offer of $1,000 for his $10,000 vintage guitar. Luckily, Gibson came to the rescue by giving Dave a new ES-335, which he picked up today at Gibson’s New York Showroom.
“As soon as we saw the picture of the crushed guitar case and heard Dave’s story, we felt immense sympathy for him,” said Gibson CEO Henry Juszkiewicz. “At Gibson we’re committed to music and those who love and appreciate their instruments. For musicians like Dave, instruments are practically members of their family. It was only right to replace his guitar, and we are happy to have him at our showroom."


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Thay also offered to fix the damaged guitar for free (besides the free guitar) but Mr Schneider had already made arrangements for someone to begin the work.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

A $10,000 guitar and he had it in a basic hard shell?

I would never check a guitar that was worth anything but if I did I wouldn't dream of doing so without an ATA case.

Those guys actually throw bags including guitars and anything else they have to handle.

You can watch them out the window of most commercial flights.

Although lots of guitarists regularly convince the flight attendants to keep their guitar up front somewhere, technically, any flight attendant can refuse to allow the guitar on board. There are clearly indicated limitations on size and quantity of bags each passenger is allowed to carry on board.

Guitars don't fit the criteria. If you're going to roll those dice you'd better have a back up plan (ATA flight case).


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Milkman said:


> A $10,000 guitar and he had it in a basic hard shell?
> I would never check a guitar that was worth anything but if I did I wouldn't dream of doing so without an ATA case.


Milkman..please understand that I am not disagreeing with you here. I am just not familiar with the degree of punishment that an ATA case can withstand. I know very little about these models of cases, although I'm sure that they are far superior to the standard hardshell cases. 

Given this preamble, my simple question is ....Would an ATA case be able to "survive" what happened (and hence protect the guitar) in the tragic situation we are specifically referring to? 
I'm being totally sincere here...not smarta$$.

Cheers

Dave


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Milkman said:


> A $10,000 guitar and he had it in a basic hard shell?
> 
> I would never check a guitar that was worth anything but if I did I wouldn't dream of doing so without an ATA case.
> 
> ...


I agree 100%. You need to take care of your own gear. Guitar like that I would have a dynamite proof case


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

> A good deed is a good deed when you do it without letting others know what you did.


i don't know if I agree with your definition. It certainly is more noble to do a good deed without taking public credit it for it, but sometimes a good deed is what it is.
i suspect if it were an entity other than the evil empire of Gibson, we wouldn't be so cynical about it.
so I applaud them for it.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Diablo said:


> > A good deed is a good deed when you do it without letting others know what you did.
> 
> 
> i don't know if I agree with your definition. It certainly is more noble to do a good deed without taking public credit it for it, but sometimes a good deed is what it is.
> ...


+1. Sometimes I get the feeling that this is Fox News & Gibson is Barack Obama.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

He tried to buy a seat for it, and has always done so in the past. He had no intention of letting it go undercarriage. They refused him for whatever reason this one time. Imagine, you're good to go on your trip, you're at the airport. Do you walk away? For whatever reason, he didn't.

I say, good on Gibson. Sure, it's a PR move - it's still a big deal to the guy getting the guitar! And to lots of onlookers too. We have enough cynicism in the world, I say give ole Henry J. a pass on this one, he does and will tee up lots of other fat pitches for us to swing at.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

greco said:


> Milkman said:
> 
> 
> > A $10,000 guitar and he had it in a basic hard shell?
> ...


You can rent ATA approved flight cases from places like Capsule Music in Toronto. 

On my old band's last day in Tokyo we were stuck without transport and I had to carry my guitar on the subway to the airport. By the end of the day we were literally sliding the case down flights of stairs. 

I have to agree with Milkman here. I can't imagine touring with a $10,000 guitar and then taking a gamble by transporting it in a hard shell case. At least go buy a $500 Epiphone for the road. 

"From Wilson Case, Inc.

ATA-300 (Category I) is a list of specifications for reusable shipping cases and containers put forth by the Air Transport Association. Category I containers are built to withstand at least 100 one way trips of normal airline cargo handling. The ATA has also classified Category II to withstand up to 10 trips and Category III for one trip. In order for a shipping case manufacturer to certify that their product is rated ATA-300 (Category I), their product must pass a strict set of tests performed by an independent testing facility.

Why do you need it? The primary job of an ATA-300 (Category I) shipping case is that it protects the equipment inside during transit. Each year millions of dollars worth of equipment are damaged when not properly packed for transit. When sourcing a shipping case manufacturer look for a company that has been in the business a long while, has experienced, professional design engineers, excels at custom shipping case design and offers quality customer service."


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

greco said:


> Milkman..please understand that I am not disagreeing with you here. I am just not familiar with the degree of punishment that an ATA case can withstand. I know very little about these models of cases, although I'm sure that they are far superior to the standard hardshell cases.
> 
> Given this preamble, my simple question is ....Would an ATA case be able to "survive" what happened (and hence protect the guitar) in the tragic situation we are specifically referring to?
> I'm being totally sincere here...not smarta$$.
> ...


Maybe. ATA is not a brand. It's a specification. Certainly a good ATA case would be the baseline for me if I travelled with a prized instrument.
the one's I have have steel edging and heavy bull nose corners.

I think such a case would jam that conveyor and the guitar might be unscathed.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

keto said:


> He tried to buy a seat for it, and has always done so in the past. He had no intention of letting it go undercarriage. They refused him for whatever reason this one time. Imagine, you're good to go on your trip, you're at the airport. Do you walk away? For whatever reason, he didn't.
> 
> I say, good on Gibson. Sure, it's a PR move - it's still a big deal to the guy getting the guitar! And to lots of onlookers too. We have enough cynicism in the world, I say give ole Henry J. a pass on this one, he does and will tee up lots of other fat pitches for us to swing at.


Based on what I read, he always carries it on and the attendants put it somewhere safe in the cabin ( the freebie solution) He only tried to buy a seat as a last resort and ths time the flight was full.

His bad IMO.

Normal hard shells are good enough if you or someone you know and trust is handling the instrument.

ATA rated cases are much, much more robust.

http://www.google.ca/search?num=10&...ULSEMMLE2wX1koD4Dg#biv=i|10;d|pMe5NlBXkE7c6M:


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I hope the vintage owners take note of this if they travel with their gear.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Budda said:


> I hope the vintage owners take note of this if they travel with their gear.


Actually, that's what's so surprising about this story. Most people who own high end vintage instruments or just high end instruments in general know damned well not to do what this guy did.

I'm sorry to blame the victim, but this shouldn't have happened.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

more importantly i think; is that all of you seem perfectly ok knowing that the airlines will treat your stuff with zero respect. and you'll pay them handsomely to do it. if more people voted with their wallet they wouldn't wonder why consumers seem to have no voice.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Milkman said:


> Based on what I read, he always carries it on and the attendants put it somewhere safe in the cabin ( the freebie solution) He only tried to buy a seat as a last resort and ths time the flight was full.
> 
> His bad IMO.





Milkman said:


> Actually, that's what's so surprising about this story. Most people who own high end vintage instruments or just high end instruments in general know damned well not to do what this guy did.
> 
> I'm sorry to blame the victim, but this shouldn't have happened.


I listened to an interview with him the other day.

he asked at every opportunity if he could do what he wanted to do and he was told at every stage "you will have to ask at the next point".

This time, they failed him. If it were me, perhaps I would have said "it will be ok this one time" and really, HOW THE F did that case get 'sucked' into that small gap?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

smorgdonkey said:


> I listened to an interview with him the other day.
> 
> he asked at every opportunity if he could do what he wanted to do and he was told at every stage "you will have to ask at the next point".
> 
> This time, they failed him. If it were me, perhaps I would have said "it will be ok this one time" and really, *HOW THE F did that case get 'sucked' into that small gap*?


every now and again things just beat the odds.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

So, if I've understood correctly, it's not JUST United that breaks guitars; it's Delta as well?

I think one of the problems is that, when a guitar manufacturer produces a case for their instrument, the intention is to have something that fits the specific instrument perfectly (no bouncing around inside the case), and allows the user to carry it around comfortably (i.e., lowest possible weight and good balance). The goal is never to have something that is easily and safely stacked for transit. Unfortunately, guitar cases shaped like guitars are not easily stacked or otherwise placed with other rectangular shipping cases and trunks. I suppose sometimes that can work to your advantage in that very little is going to be stacked on top of them if it makes things unstable. But it can also work to your disadvantage if it does not conform to the usual manner in which baggage is handled.

Not blame, so much as a challenge.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

While the Airline is guilty for damaging the guitar and being pig-headed about letting it be carried on, and Mr. Schneider is partly to blame for not having it in a better case, Gibson did not come to any rescue out of the goodness of their heart. They came to the rescue in rescue of their bottom line. If this was not the case, we would have not heard of this or we would have heard of it through some third party.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> They came to the rescue in rescue of their bottom line. If this was not the case, we would have not heard of this or we would have heard of it through some third party.


Actually...I DID hear about it through some third party.

CBC radio.

I never saw anything about it on Gibson's site and in fact I never heard about the Gibson involvement in offering him a new guitar and offering him free repair on the old one until the 3rd time that I heard a piece on this story.

...and...you posted the story here as one of those 'third parties'.
I know that you are a Gibson hater so I hope that you can sleep at night.hwopv


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

smorgdonkey said:


> Actually...I DID hear about it through some third party.
> 
> CBC radio.
> 
> ...


Point #1) If you would have done a bit of homework, you would have noticed on the original post that this is taken from Gibson's web page and not from a third party. Check out the URL for yourself here: Gibson Saves the Day

Point #2) Regarding 3rd party, a number of newscasters have picked up the story so you could have heard about it from a number of sources. Gibson made sure others knew about their "good" deed by posting it on the website and possibly other ways as well.

Point #3) I do not necessarily hate Gibson. I do not like any business that conducts itself in the manner that Gibson does, that includes others like Fender and other companies having nothing to do with musical instruments. What I dislike is the way many companies do business marketing. Gibson and Fender are only two of many, many that mislead people by their marketing methods. Do they make fine guitars? Yes. Do they make bad guitars? Not likely, perhaps some mediocre ones.

So, my dear Smorgdonkey I'll add a busted for you since you have failed to do your homework. hwopv

Regards, Steadfastly


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

12th century Jewish philosopher/theologian/physician Maimonides' eight degrees of charity:

********************************************************************

There are eight levels of _tzedaka _(charity), each greater than the next. The greatest level, above which there is no other, is to strengthen the name of another by giving him a present or loan, or making a partnership with him, or finding him a job in order to strengthen his hand until he needs no longer [beg from] people. For it is said, "You shall strengthen the stranger and the dweller in your midst and live with him," {Leviticus XXV:35} that is to say, strengthen him until he needs no longer fall [upon the mercy of the community] or be in need. 

Below this is the one who gives _tzedaka_ to the poor, but does not know to whom he gives, nor does the recipient know his benefactor. For this is performing a (righteous deed_)_ for the sake of Heaven. This is like the Secret [Anonymous] Office in the Temple. There the righteous gave secretly, and the good poor drew sustenance anonymously. This is much like giving _tzedaka_ through a _tzedaka_ box. One should not put into the box unless he knows that the one responsible for the box is faithful and wise and a proper leader like Rabbi Hananya ben Teradyon.

Below this is one who knows to whom he gives, but the recipient does not know his benefactor. The greatest sages used to walk about in secret and put coins into the doors of the poor. It is worthy and truly good to do this if those who are responsible for collecting _tzedaka_ are not trustworthy. 

Below this is one who does not know to whom he gives, but the poor person does know his benefactor. The greatest sages used to pack coins into their scarves and roll them up over their backs, and the poor would come and pick [the coins out of the scarves] so that they would not be ashamed. 

Below this is one who gives to the poor person before being asked. 

Below this is one who gives to the poor person after being asked. 

Below this is one who gives to the poor person gladly and with a smile. 

Below this is one who gives to the poor person unwillingly. 

*******************************

And perhaps below this is the one who mulls it over for a bit, discusses it with the legal department and marketing people, poses for pictures (shaking hands with the beneficiary), and posts it on their web-site, writing if off as a deductible business expense.

It's still charitable, just a different _degree_ of charity.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

If my memory is correct when United broke that other guy's Taylor guitar, Taylor got involved to help the guy out. Gibson is following suit and if they didn't would be criticized. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Point #3) I do not necessarily hate Gibson. I do not like any business that conducts itself in the manner that Gibson does, that includes others like Fender and other companies having nothing to do with musical instruments. What I dislike is the way many companies do business marketing. Gibson and Fender are only two of many, many that mislead people by their marketing methods. Do they make fine guitars? Yes. Do they make bad guitars? Not likely, perhaps some mediocre ones.


Oddball designs? Sometimes. Spotty QC? Agreed. But I'm curious as to how you feel Gibson & Fender's marketing methods mislead ppl. That's kind of a blanket statement, do you have any specific examples?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> Point #1) If you would have done a bit of homework, you would have noticed on the original post that this is taken from Gibson's web page and not from a third party. Check out the URL for yourself here: Gibson Saves the Day
> 
> Point #2) Regarding 3rd party, a number of newscasters have picked up the story so you could have heard about it from a number of sources. Gibson made sure others knew about their "good" deed by posting it on the website and possibly other ways as well.
> 
> ...


Re:bolded, I wish every company's marketing campaign was based around giving away free product 

seriously, there's lots of things to criticize Gibson for, but marketing? Meh....all I can think of is some silly and /or expensive models, and tons of product placement in tv shows and movie. Really doesn't seem so bad.
its not like their Big oil or tobacco or fast food or something.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> Point #1) If you would have done a bit of homework, you would have noticed on the original post that this is taken from Gibson's web page and not from a third party. Check out the URL for yourself here: Gibson Saves the Day
> 
> Point #2) Regarding 3rd party, a number of newscasters have picked up the story so you could have heard about it from a number of sources. Gibson made sure others knew about their "good" deed by posting it on the website and possibly other ways as well.


Point #1) I didn't see any url in your first post...perhaps there is an easy way to get one from it. I don't know how to do it. I am definitely not a computer wiz...I know what a great guitar is though! Ok. You win that one.

Point #2) Gibson posted it on the 10th of January but the guy who had the crushed guitar posted it on Facebook (that he was being offered a new guitar) the day before that and the news spread everywhere. Now, one could say that he isn't a third party but everyone on Facebook is and the MyLesPaul site had it posted on the 9th (one full day ahead of Gibson) & the thread carrying the story was started on the 5th..Yahoo news on the 4th. 
65 gibson es 335 crushed!!!! - Les Paul Forums
By the time that 24 hours had passed and Gibson put it on their site, perhaps 50% of the people who know now, already knew about it. 

Furthermore, if I were running an iconic guitar company and someone had a vintage instrument (of my brand) ruined or damaged like that, I would want to try to help out in some way. I win that one.

Point #3) Hater! I win that one too.

2 to 1 for me...so you are the one who is busted.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

smorgdonkey said:


> Point #1) I didn't see any url in your first post...perhaps there is an easy way to get one from it. I don't know how to do it. I am definitely not a computer wiz...I know what a great guitar is though! Ok. You win that one.
> 
> Point #2) Gibson posted it on the 10th of January but the guy who had the crushed guitar posted it on Facebook (that he was being offered a new guitar) the day before that and the news spread everywhere. Now, one could say that he isn't a third party but everyone on Facebook is and the MyLesPaul site had it posted on the 9th (one full day ahead of Gibson) & the thread carrying the story was started on the 5th..Yahoo news on the 4th.
> 65 gibson es 335 crushed!!!! - Les Paul Forums
> ...


Don't hate, congratulate.


Alternate response:

Maybe someone should sip on something relaxing like chamomile tea or cognac instead of drinking so much Hatorade?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Steadfastly said:


> While the Airline is guilty for damaging the guitar and being pig-headed about letting it be carried on, and Mr. Schneider is partly to blame for not having it in a better case, Gibson did not come to any rescue out of the goodness of their heart. They came to the rescue in rescue of their bottom line. If this was not the case, we would have not heard of this or we would have heard of it through some third party.


For anyone that has flown in the past say 8 years it is extremely evident that carry on luggage space is at a premium. Since the airlines started charging for checked bags the overheads are jammed. How some of these people are getting on board with these sized bags is beyond me. Years ago you would never be running on the plane looking for overhead room, there was always plenty. So I can understand why this happened, they may simply have had no room for it on the plane. All flights are sold out now. The days of planes flying half full are long gone.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

smorgdonkey said:


> Furthermore, if I were running an iconic guitar company and someone had a vintage instrument (of my brand) ruined or damaged like that, I would want to try to help out in some way.



And that is a wonderful quality to have. I trust that you would also have the integrity to not let your right hand know what your left is doing and be satisfied with helping someone out. That is where real satisfaction comes from as I'm sure you realize through your own life's experiences. Regards, Steadfastly


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> For anyone that has flown in the past say 8 years it is extremely evident that carry on luggage space is at a premium. Since the airlines started charging for checked bags the overheads are jammed. How some of these people are getting on board with these sized bags is beyond me. Years ago you would never be running on the plane looking for overhead room, there was always plenty. So I can understand why this happened, they may simply have had no room for it on the plane. All flights are sold out now. The days of planes flying half full are long gone.


True, things are not what they used to be. But he said he'd never had a problem carrying it on before. I don't know if he exhausted all avenues but If he didn't, I certainly would have asked to speak to management.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> And that is a wonderful quality to have. I trust that you would also have the integrity to not let your right hand know what your left is doing and be satisfied with helping someone out. That is where real satisfaction comes from as I'm sure you realize through your own life's experiences. Regards, Steadfastly


...er...if you don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing, that could be interpretted as fraudulent or shady decisions - perhaps even deceitful. 

I don't know who made the decision at Gibson to do the guitar offer and the offer for free repair but they wouldn't have hurt themselves to stay out of it as the airline and the guitar owner were getting all of the flak anyway. 

I don't think many people are going to run out and get new $1000 guitars because of their actions either but I guess I don't have a way of knowing that. The fact is that they offered a few thousand to someone who they had no responsibility for.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

smorgdonkey said:


> ...er...if you don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing, that could be interpretted as fraudulent or shady decisions - perhaps even deceitful.
> 
> I don't know who made the decision at Gibson to do the guitar offer and the offer for free repair but they wouldn't have hurt themselves to stay out of it as the airline and the guitar owner were getting all of the flak anyway.
> 
> I don't think many people are going to run out and get new $1000 guitars because of their actions either but I guess I don't have a way of knowing that. *The fact is that they offered a few thousand to someone who they had no responsibility for.*


You can have sympathy without having responsibility.
i give to charities frequently even if I had nothing to do with the diseases/illnesses afflicting the people who benefit from the donation


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

smorgdonkey said:


> ...er...if you *don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing*, that could be interpretted as fraudulent or shady decisions - perhaps even deceitful.


That saying has nothing to do with being deceitful. It means keeping your good deeds to yourself and not be bragging about what a good and caring person or organization you are. Regards, Steadfastly


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Diablo said:


> You can have sympathy without having responsibility.
> i give to charities frequently even if I had nothing to do with the diseases/illnesses afflicting the people who benefit from the donation


That's what I was getting at. They had no responsibility and did it anyway. 



Steadfastly said:


> That saying has nothing to do with being deceitful. It means keeping your good deeds to yourself and not be bragging about what a good and caring person or organization you are. Regards, Steadfastly


So, when he stated that Gibson offered him the guitar and the free repair service and then people in the media asked Gibson for a statement, they should have just denied that they did it?

Hater.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

smorgdonkey said:


> That's what I was getting at. They had no responsibility and did it anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whatever, Smorgy, whatever.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

It's not like Henry J did something out of kindness and then plastered it all over the newpapers.

It's a company, any press is good press.
As stated already, they had nothing to do with the damage, yet they offered to help.
If they didn't, there would be a thread about how the Gibson company didn't do anything for this guy.

It is what it is, nothing to see here folks.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

If it was me who got the guitar and repair offer, I would be gushing praise on Gibson and if they want to get a little PR out of it, more power to them. I would cooperate with photos, endorsements and anything else they wanted to do for publicity. Hmmm... ES 335 plus repairs of my damaged one in exchange for a little of my time AND free publicity for my band? No brainer.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

bluzfish said:


> If it was me who got the guitar and repair offer, I would be gushing praise on Gibson and if they want to get a little PR out of it, more power to them. I would cooperate with photos, endorsements and anything else they wanted to do for publicity. Hmmm... ES 335 plus repairs of my damaged one in exchange for a little of my time AND free publicity for my band? No brainer.



That's nice.

But, if it was you there would be no advantage for Gibson to help you and I assure you we wouldn't be discussing Gibson's "kindness".

I don't like to speek negatively about a kind deed, but we need to remember that guitars are damaged every day and most of us would be laughed at if we mentioned it to Gibson.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

...but I don't think the the guy "mentioned" anything to Gibson, they stepped forward with the gesture.

I don't see the harm in that, or letting people know that your company did something positive.

It's probably because it became viral and was brought to their attention.
I don't see what all the fuss is about.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Gibson can't replace all the damaged guitars they sell. Does giving to one charity diminish it's value because you didn't give to another? It's an isolated act that benefited both parties. I simply don't see the need to judge who got the best of the deal.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

bluzfish said:


> Gibson can't replace all the damaged guitars they sell. Does giving to one charity diminish it's value because you didn't give to another? It's an isolated act that benefited both parties. I simply don't see the need to judge who got the best of the deal.


I agree man...


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