# Speaker Cables



## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

How much does it make a difference. I've been using a heavy gauge lamp cable with the proper ends for years. Is it worth getting a proper Yorkville or Planetwaves heavy duty?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

How long are the cables?
What is the gauge of your "heavy gauge wire"?

There was a long thread about this recently. I'll see if I can find it.
Here it is...Wiring up a Cab
It is a long, but interesting, thread....if you are into electronics and CONFUSION...LOL

This should be a helpful guideline for you...


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Lamp cord = speaker wire (usually 18-16 guage). Speaker wire just makes more of a marketting push about being 99% oxegen free copper and other gimmicks. Some hifi audiophile stuff is has silver content (then there's the ones that claim to be directional..... no comment). Planet Waves or Yorkville is the same stuff (plain copper unsheilded pair) in an extra outer jacket. Personally I don't like that cuz it's harder to tell what is a speaker vs patch cable, but it does look nicer and is easier to fit into a jack vs the parallel tear away stuff. Save your money and keep rolling yer own as you were (do pay attention to that chart from @greco tho; I use 18 guage most of the time, but I never go more than , say, 6 feet from head to cab anyways; I have a few longer speaker cables that are 16 or maybe 14ga, but even then overkill cuz still just 18 ft or so; use them for stereo spread, or isolating a cab in another room to avoid bleed when recording). I use that same 18 ga stuff for internal cab wiring.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Personally I don't like that cuz it's harder to tell what is a speaker vs patch cable...


For this specific reason alone, I always wrap the "barrels" of the plugs on speaker cables with blue painter's tape.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

The ultimate (one of many) threads on Gearslutz highlights the insane length (pun intended) and expense some folks go to find the ultimate speaker cable....

Are expensive speaker cables better than cheap ones? Sorry guys, I’m changing team! - Gearslutz Pro Audio Community

My recipe is to buy well constructed and pliable wire of the correct gauge and fit good quality connectors. Job done.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Just make sure your polarity is the same at both plugs. If I don't check twice when I make new speaker cables, I ALWAYS invert the polarity. DOH ...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Lamp cord = speaker wire (usually 18-16 guage). Speaker wire just makes more of a marketting push about being 99% oxegen free copper and other gimmicks. Some hifi audiophile stuff is has silver content (then there's the ones that claim to be directional..... no comment). Planet Waves or Yorkville is the same stuff (plain copper unsheilded pair) in an extra outer jacket. Personally I don't like that cuz it's harder to tell what is a speaker vs patch cable, but it does look nicer and is easier to fit into a jack vs the parallel tear away stuff. Save your money and keep rolling yer own as you were (do pay attention to that chart from @greco tho; I use 18 guage most of the time, but I never go more than , say, 6 feet from head to cab anyways; I have a few longer speaker cables that are 16 or maybe 14ga, but even then overkill cuz still just 18 ft or so; use them for stereo spread, or isolating a cab in another room to avoid bleed when recording). I use that same 18 ga stuff for internal cab wiring.


I think it bears consideration that the wire feeding a _music reproduction _speaker, expected to deliver very wide bandwidth, capable of reproducing all nuances of acoustic orchestral music, has much greater demands placed upon it than speaker wire feeding speakers that kind of crap out over 6-7khz, and carry distorted guitar signal. Moreover, wire going from a reproduction amplifier to wall-mounted or corner-situated speakers often (though admittedly, not _always_) travels a greater distance than wire from an amp head to a cab sitting beneath it. So cables for reproduction also have to content with what distance does, moreso than music-cab cables do.

That's not to say that choice of cable is entirely unimportant. Rather, the requirements are different for the two contexts, and the sorts of things listeners notice and prefer in the one context, may simply not apply to players in the other. This has been a recurring thing between the audiophile and musician communities, whether it be speaker wire, capacitor choice, or whatnot. That's not a criticism of anyone. Rather, it is simply important to always consider context when judging the importance and impact of something.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

mhammer said:


> I think it bears consideration that the wire feeding a _music reproduction _speaker, expected to deliver very wide bandwidth, capable of reproducing all nuances of acoustic orchestral music, has much greater demands placed upon it than speaker wire feeding speakers that kind of crap out over 6-7khz, and carry distorted guitar signal. Moreover, wire going from a reproduction amplifier to wall-mounted or corner-situated speakers often (though admittedly, not _always_) travels a greater distance than wire from an amp head to a cab sitting beneath it. So cables for reproduction also have to content with what distance does, moreso than music-cab cables do.
> 
> That's not to say that choice of cable is entirely unimportant. Rather, the requirements are different for the two contexts, and the sorts of things listeners notice and prefer in the one context, may simply not apply to players in the other. This has been a recurring thing between the audiophile and musician communities, whether it be speaker wire, capacitor choice, or whatnot. That's not a criticism of anyone. Rather, it is simply important to always consider context when judging the importance and impact of something.


But connectors and particularly speaker wire is so cheap that it doesn't make any sense, IMO, to use anything less than audiophile-grade speaker cable for your guitar amp speaker cables as well. It may pass less bandwidth but I can't be bothered to save $2 or $3 bucks.

And by audiophile-grade speaker cable, I mean decent quality 16 or 18 gauge cable. Maybe 14 or 12 if you're running lots of power at 4 ohms over a significant distance (+25 feet or so). But you don't need to pay $30 or $40 for some brand-name 5 foot cable. Pure snake oil. Good cable soldered to good connectors - which I play approximately $12 - $15 for anything from 3 feet to 15 feet (and make myself).


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## Guest (May 10, 2017)

greco said:


> I always wrap the "barrels" of the plugs on speaker cables with blue painter's tape.


Aren't speaker cable generally a little 'thicker' as well?

I can understand the thicker gauge for cable, however, I've seen thinner wire inside the cab itself.
Am I confused for no reason?

(google pic)


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

laristotle said:


> Aren't speaker cable generally a little 'thicker' as well?
> 
> I can understand the thicker gauge for cable, however, I've seen thinner wire inside the cab itself.
> Am I confused for no reason?


Yes, the rubber covered speaker wire (like Rapco, etc) is thicker/larger diameter. Neutrik actually makes a special 1/4 inch plug for speaker wire of this type. It has a larger internal diameter in the rubber "boot". I "marked" them with the tape just in case someone grabbed one of the longer ones thinking that it was an instrument cable.


Regarding the pic of the inside of the cab, I would always use 14 or 16 gauge stranded wire for this purpose. Overkill on my part ..very likely.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> But connectors and particularly speaker wire is so cheap that it doesn't make any sense, IMO, to use anything less than audiophile-grade speaker cable for your guitar amp speaker cables as well. It may pass less bandwidth but I can't be bothered to save $2 or $3 bucks.
> 
> And by audiophile-grade speaker cable, I mean decent quality 16 or 18 gauge cable. Maybe 14 or 12 if you're running lots of power at 4 ohms over a significant distance (+25 feet or so). But you don't need to pay $30 or $40 for some brand-name 5 foot cable. Pure snake oil. Good cable soldered to good connectors - which I play approximately $12 - $15 for anything from 3 feet to 15 feet (and make myself).


I don't think we disagree here....not unless the "decent quality 16 or 18 gauge cable" you are thinking of is vastly different than what I have in mind. Possible also that the "audiophile" speaker cable for home listening cabs is different than what you had in mind too. For my part, 12-14 gauge zip cord is fine for guitar-amp speaker cables. I would probably look into alternatives for connecting high-end monitors up to a high-quality power amp for music-listening purposes.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

mhammer said:


> I don't think we disagree here....not unless the "decent quality 16 or 18 gauge cable" you are thinking of is vastly different than what I have in mind. Possible also that the "audiophile" speaker cable for home listening cabs is different than what you had in mind too. For my part, 12-14 gauge zip cord is fine for guitar-amp speaker cables. *I would probably look into alternatives for connecting high-end monitors up to a high-quality power amp for music-listening purposes.*


Why? I wouldn't. 

I've used Mogami for my MI and SR applications for years - mostly because it is flexible and rugged/reliable. I pay a bit more for it but if I'm possibly going to be stretching it around cabinets or walking on it, the extra expense is worth it. 

For 'low-tread' home use, I think good quality zip cord or speaker cable soldered to good quality banana plugs is as good as anything - full stop. I don't go in for the monster hype and silver coated, variable gauge stranded yada yada stuff. It has never been proven to be better and is always shot down in any of the AV/Hifi forums I go to. The only proven benefit is to the salesmen's commissions. Correct me if I'm wrong - people have been trying to for years.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Again, we are not in disagreement. I'm not one to be persuaded by audiophile hype, but you're not recommending Canadian Tire zip-cord for music-listening speakers either, right? And I would definitely agree that the ability to lie flat or turn corners, etc., etc., is part of what might make some cable more desirable than others, when it comes to home speakers or monitors for recording studios.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong - people have been trying to for years.


Did anyone succeed? 
Sorry, I just couldn't resist. However, you did set yourself up for the likelihood of this happening...LOL


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

mhammer said:


> I think it bears consideration that the wire feeding a _music reproduction _speaker, expected to deliver very wide bandwidth, capable of reproducing all nuances of acoustic orchestral music, has much greater demands placed upon it than speaker wire feeding speakers that kind of crap out over 6-7khz, and carry distorted guitar signal.


In practical terms there is nothing special required of a speaker cable in either circumstance. Audio signals can't really be described as "wide bandwidth", as it is a very limited range of frequencies on the very lowest end of the scale. If you were talking transmission lines used for signals in the Ghz range, or circuits that were extremely high impedance, the physical attributes of the wire would come into play. For low impedance and low frequency signals it isn't worthy of discussion, imo, beyond the gauge required for distance/load impedance/power. 

I lump this argument into the same category as someone trying to argue that only a high horsepower Caterpillar engine, driving an elaborate and well tuned mechanism is truly capable of moving a teaspoon of mud.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm as much an advocate of "meh, good enough" as anyone, and I'm also well aware of the psycho-perceptual distortions that obsessive audiophiles can fall prey to. At the same time, unless I'm in the room and able to declare with confidence "I just don't hear it", I have to give some credence - albeit limited, and liberally seasoned with scepticism - to the view that when folks with great systems, the right program material, and decent unbiased ears "hear" something, that maybe they've actually heard something. It might not be happening for the reasons they think it is, but they may well have actually heard a difference, even if it requires special circumstances (e.g., 40ft cables and an anechoic chamber) to be audible. So, I'm not going to dismiss anything and everything beyond 14-gauge zip cord with a wave of the hand. I'm certainly going to insist that any alternative cable exhibit _reproducible_ improvements to sound in a broad range of conditions, but I will remain open to alternatives.

And yes, compared to signals with bandwidth that demands we buy better scopes to measure, the difference between 6khz and 20khz bandwidth seems puny and negligible. But things that impact on the HF content of a mixed-down multi-source musical signal may have no impact whatsoever on the tonal quality of a single-source guitar signal of modest bandwidth, particularly since the hearer is not burdened with having to assign harmonics to multiple sound sources at once


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

laristotle said:


> I can understand the thicker gauge for cable, however, I've seen thinner wire inside the cab itself.
> Am I confused for no reason?
> 
> (google pic)


That will be solid core wire, which will have a smaller diameter for given gauge than stranded. For example, 12 gauge house electrical copper solid core versus 12 gauge speaker cable.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

I have been using simple stuff. Over 10 ft regardless of distance as I believe it to act like a filter for the unwanted highs and such. 

Hasn't made capital records take down any of my platinum albums!!


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I am in the "good enough" camp. A cable suited for the job. If you move the item a lot you want a bit more ruggedness. You want a decent connector. Zip cord works fine for speakers. It's not moving sound, it's moving electrons, ohms per foot is the rule. Most everything else is marketing hype. I am always reminded of this, a bit old, but as true today as ever.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

mhammer said:


> Again, we are not in disagreement. I'm not one to be persuaded by audiophile hype, but you're not recommending Canadian Tire zip-cord for music-listening speakers either, right? And I would definitely agree that the ability to lie flat or turn corners, etc., etc., is part of what might make some cable more desirable than others, when it comes to home speakers or monitors for recording studios.


I wouldn't go that cheap. Decent speaker wire is already pretty cheap. I bought a couple spools for less than $80 when I rewired my living room to 7.1 and used 14 gauge speaker wire (the twinned clear stuff you can see the conductors inside). I use something a little better (Mogami 12 gauge) for my front L/R because I listen to those alone in hi-fi mode and the speakers are a higher level than any of the surrounds (KEF LS50's vs Q series as center/surround). 

Plus I had the old Mogami for years and used that with the Magneplanars and the cables were already in place. I just didn't need any surrounds with the Maggies - they were a fully enveloping stereo pair. But, ya know, GAS exists in the hi-fi world too. Those Maggies aren't gone, just in storage for a while. I replaced some fancy 10 gauge cable with the Mogami when I moved into my house. The 10 gauge was harder to wire and hide because it was a bit short - and I didn't hear one iota of difference between the two when I made the change.



greco said:


> Did anyone succeed?
> Sorry, I just couldn't resist. However, you did set yourself up for the likelihood of this happening...LOL


Not yet, but I (try to) remain open-minded to the possibility. I've listened to crazy expensive wires and just didn't hear any difference - certainly not enough to throw $600+ at it. Maybe my technical bent blocks my ability to 'hear the magic'. I'm also of the opinion that sonic memory is short, like less than a minute short. If it takes you longer than that to switch cables, you are more and more hearing what you expect to hear (confirmation bias). That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

ronmac said:


> In practical terms there is nothing special required of a speaker cable in either circumstance. Audio signals can't really be described as "wide bandwidth", as it is a very limited range of frequencies on the very lowest end of the scale. If you were talking transmission lines used for signals in the Ghz range, or circuits that were extremely high impedance, the physical attributes of the wire would come into play. For low impedance and low frequency signals it isn't worthy of discussion, imo, beyond the gauge required for distance/load impedance/power.
> 
> I lump this argument into the same category as someone trying to argue that only a high horsepower Caterpillar engine, driving an elaborate and well tuned mechanism is truly capable of moving a teaspoon of mud.


Maybe that's part of my problem as well.

I've worked for years on transmission equipment that operates from 2 GHz (long gone now because of cellphones) to 18 GHz. While waveguide (hollow brass tubes) is used at the power end (to couple the radio equipment to the feedhorn/antenna), hardline (coax in copper tubing) is used to connect the signal at RF frequencies. Very good quality coax with N or SMA connectors is used at the IF stages. No one technical, including the radio builders, ever suggests fancy silver coated wires or various gauges of stranding for this application, so I have a hard time thinking it's going to help at ULF, stuff below 40KHz.

But I try and remain open to the possibility, as illogical as it seems.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> Not yet, but I (try to) remain open-minded to the possibility. I've listened to crazy expensive wires and just didn't hear any difference - certainly not enough to throw $600+ at it. Maybe my technical bent blocks my ability to 'hear the magic'. _I'm also of the opinion that sonic memory is short, like less than a minute short. If it takes you longer than that to switch cables, you are more and more hearing what you expect to hear (confirmation bias). That's my story and I'm sticking to it_.


I'll buy that.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

If you're interested, @mhammer , I think this is still one of the best resources regarding the science of speaker cable.

Speaker Wire

Although I do find strings like that huge one on gearslutz to be entertaining. Lots of bickering (and name dropping) about what people like or prefer, not so much about what is accurate.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks. Any source that cites Floyd Toole (a native New Brunswicker who wrote the book on audio measurement for the NRC) AND Stereo Review is alright by me.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

This looks like good stuff...











OR you could go with the cheaper product form the same folks...


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Cables like that are completely useless without crystals. Ya gotta have crystals.

Audio Accessories - Crystals, Brilliant Pebbles


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## NorlinNorm (Dec 31, 2016)

greco said:


> For this specific reason alone, I always wrap the "barrels" of the plugs on speaker cables with blue painter's tape.


I also "mark" my speaker cables with tape...


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## mr trick (Sep 21, 2013)

computers always use only the best wire, usually silver coated copper, gold contacts and other good things, there must be a reason, so I made a guitar cable from an old printer cable and was surprised at how good it sounded, but without shielding they were a bit noisy, so I stripped a coax cable and put that on, and things improved, a lot of bother but mostly a fun experiment


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

Wow, those Everest cables improve 'Rhythm, timing, pace, tonality, extension, expression, Everest is a master of all these elements.'

I wish I could hook up my drummer through some of these...


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

TheYanChamp said:


> Wow, those Everest cables improve 'Rhythm, timing, pace, tonality, extension, expression, .......'


They missed one: 'the salesman's paycheque.'



> I wish I could hook up my drummer through some of these...


LOL

I would pay huge to have a cable that did that!


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

1300 a foot, is the wire pure gold?


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

knight_yyz said:


> 1300 a foot, is the wire pure gold?


Do you realize how many snakes you have to squeeze to get enough oil to make a foot of that stuff? And I believe they are poisonous snakes, only found under palm tress on Antarctica. Sheeeeaaaaat, a bargain at 13,000/foot! 

But ya gotta get the crystals. None of this works as well without the crystals.


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