# Another Fake Gibson



## Stonehead (Nov 12, 2013)

I'm no expert but the headstock logo looks wrong as does the diamond inlay. Vol/tone knobs look out of line as well. Thoughts?

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-guitar/calga...nt/1047392895?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

looks fine to me- 
but whenever i see les pauls my eyes go all blurry and i hear people saying blah blah blah.
fake or real, i dont like them.
so what do i know.
obviously nothing.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

The logo looks wrong.


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

Real. Welcome to the Norlin era.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

ISIS are killing and raping people by the thousands, Syria has lost 10's of thousands in their civil war, 40,000 people die each year due to malnutrition and we could go on and on. Another fake guitar. It's not even on the scale.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> ISIS are killing and raping people by the thousands, Syria has lost 10's of thousands in their civil war, 40,000 people die each year due to malnutrition and we could go on and on. Another fake guitar. It's not even on the scale.


Tragic for sure, but I don't get it - why are you here on a guitar forum?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

dradlin said:


> Tragic for sure, but I don't get it - why are you here on a guitar forum?


Exactly, while it is not on the same scale as being killed or tortured or whatever, it does mean people are ripped off of their money--and that is not right.
All injustice is injustice, no matter how big or small.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

They're both real....end of story...ISIS or no ISIS.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

Steadfastly said:


> ISIS are killing and raping people by the thousands, Syria has lost 10's of thousands in their civil war, 40,000 people die each year due to malnutrition and we could go on and on. Another fake guitar. It's not even on the scale.


Nevermind, I thought twice about what I was going to say. :sSig_Idontgetit:


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Looks real to me, although not the Les Paul I would be looking for.

I think it's the official guitar of the ISIS band.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

As pictures go it looks real to me. Don't like the colour and wouldn't pay the price. Sometimes "rare" just means that it was not popular in the first place.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> As pictures go it looks real to me. Don't like the colour and wouldn't pay the price. Sometimes "rare" just means that it was not popular in the first place.


I just noticed the price. LMAO, maybe somebody would pay $4800 for an 86 LP, but not me.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

allthumbs56 said:


> As pictures go it looks real to me. Don't like the colour and wouldn't pay the price. *Sometimes "rare" just means that it was not popular in the first place.*


^^^ This. Price inflated with super-heated air. Hope it's not a GCer I'm dissing!


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

With ISIS oil money you could 



Milkman said:


> I just noticed the price. LMAO, maybe somebody would pay $4800 for an 86 LP, but not me.


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## Stonehead (Nov 12, 2013)

Steadfastly said:


> ISIS are killing and raping people by the thousands, Syria has lost 10's of thousands in their civil war, 40,000 people die each year due to malnutrition and we could go on and on. Another fake guitar. It's not even on the scale.


Whats the point? You interrupt this thread to bring us the news? I posted this because i wasn't sure if the guitar was fake or not?


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Stonehead said:


> Whats the point? You interrupt this thread to bring us the news? I posted this because i wasn't sure if the guitar was fake or not?


Full Steadly effect. Just a moment, I'll turn things around...ok, here goes...



Have you considered Godin?


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2015)




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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

EWW YACHT rock......


laristotle said:


>


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

kenny loggins lol-
hes almost as awesome as chicken man.
the greatest crime fighter the world has ever known.
i got beer all over my desk now.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Springsteen killed off the Chicken man in Atlantic City 

"Well they blew up the chicken man in Philly last
Night now they blew up his house too"




fraser said:


> hes almost as awesome as chicken man.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2015)

fraser said:


> hes almost as awesome as chicken man.
> the greatest crime fighter the world has ever known.
> i got beer all over my desk now.


he's everywhere, he's everywhere .. 










[video=youtube;-3j7fjzJvnA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3j7fjzJvnA[/video]


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## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

allthumbs56 said:


> As pictures go it looks real to me. Don't like the colour and wouldn't pay the price. Sometimes "rare" just means that it was not popular in the first place.


....and mint means rarely played because it sounds 'just not right'.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

ed2000 said:


> ....and mint means rarely played because it sounds 'just not right'.


...or because of it's spine crushing weight.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

smorgdonkey said:


> Have you considered Godin?


But why, when you could spend $1200 on this guitar with the $3600 upcharge for the authentic, timeless Gibson script attached to it? Thats a deal at $600 per letter. I should scoop it.


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

Is this the Ultimate Guitar forums?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

dradlin said:


> Tragic for sure, but I don't get it - why are you here on a guitar forum?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have learned a lot here and continue to do so. I couldn't care less about a fake Gibson, Fender, Godin, PRS or a Sears-Roebuck.

- - - Updated - - -



Stonehead said:


> Whats the point? You interrupt this thread to bring us the news? I posted this because i wasn't sure if the guitar was fake or not?


Frankly, I don't see the point in threads about fake guitars. If you're not sure, just move on. We all know there are fakes out there. There are lots of guitars for sale if you are truly interested in buying one. Someone's always got X guitar for sale.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Why not?? There have been debates over more useless subjects on this forum without some high handed intervention...This topic is useful to those who don't know the difference even if you do....If it's not to your liking, then I suggest you take your own advice and move on.



Steadfastly said:


> I have learned a lot here and continue to do so. I couldn't care less about a fake Gibson, Fender, Godin, PRS or a Sears-Roebuck.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...


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## Disbeat (Jul 30, 2011)

Seriously?
This is a guitar forum I can't imagine a better place to ask questions like this.

And since I've been coming here you have probably posted some of the most irrelevant crap.
Maybe your having a bad day? We all have em it's understandable, this attitude seems out of character even for you.



Steadfastly said:


> I have learned a lot here and continue to do so. I couldn't care less about a fake Gibson, Fender, Godin, PRS or a Sears-Roebuck.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2015)




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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Come on fellas. Steadly's just a great guy who always wants to help and now you dudes don't give him the latitude to declare the validity of a thread topic and the freedom to condescend to others' thoughts & ideas?


You guys are harsh.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Disbeat said:


> *Seriously?*
> This is a guitar forum I can't imagine a better place to ask questions like this.
> 
> And since I've been coming here you have probably posted some of the most irrelevant crap.
> Maybe your having a bad day? We all have em it's understandable, this attitude seems out of character even for you.


Yep, seriously.


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## Disbeat (Jul 30, 2011)

You sir are a fool
If you can't see the validity of this thread on this forum I'm afraid there is no hope for you.
And to think I thought for a long time maybe smorgdonkey was kinda hard on you, boy was I wrong.



Steadfastly said:


> Yep, seriously.


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## Stonehead (Nov 12, 2013)

I was searching my local kijiji for LP's and came across this one. I have just never seen a logo that looked like that before. The diamond inlay looks like it goes under the tuning peg. I did search a few other forums and Gibson's site but did not find any specific info on that type of Gibson logo. So I thought i would ask here and get a quick answer. Now it has spiralled to almost silly. 
Thanks to those that knew the answer and posted now I too have learned something.

I can try to understand how boring a topic like this may be if one had over 9000 posts over a myriad of topics including this one. What i don't understand is why would you even try to compare it to world events? It's almost like your trying to enlighten us all of the great pain and suffering that parts of the world are in. How insignificant me asking about a guitar on a guitar forum is in comparison. How we all live in denial of the absolute shit that goes on in this world and bringing this to light in a obscure Canadian guitar forum is going to help that cause in any way, or just bring awareness to a few more people. I think the most likely reason would be just make you feel a little better about yourself. 

Sounds like depression, go seek help.


Tongue firmly in Cheek! :smile-new:


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

I say the guitar is real.... here is my Norlen headstock, i see nothing wrong with it...


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Stonehead said:


> I think the most likely reason would be just make you feel a little better about yourself.
> 
> Sounds like depression, go seek help.


Now you can expect about a week of dumb puns and pat on the back posts all followed by the smilie faces.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2015)

Rick31797 said:


> I say the guitar is real.... here is my Norlen headstock, i see nothing wrong with it...


I can see when they're side by each, how the diamond seems a little bigger. Even though 
the washers are a touch larger, the tip of the TRC also covers over the diamond edge.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

Rick31797 said:


> I say the guitar is real.... here is my Norlen headstock, i see nothing wrong with it...


Yep. The logo on my 71 SG looks exactly like that.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Rick31797 said:


> I say the guitar is real.... here is my Norlen headstock, i see nothing wrong with it...


Look at the proportions of the "diamond" inlay (gap width vertically down center), and its position relative to the center tuner posts. Certainly they are different...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2015)

then again, how many counterfeiters take the time for the nibs. this guitar 
could be a 'second', even though it's not stamped as such (that I can tell).


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

This guitar is pretty typical for early 80's. I had a silverburst Custom many moons ago with the split diamond inlay touching the truss rod cover.....one thing about Gibby's, there all unique for better or worse.




laristotle said:


> then again, how many counterfeiters take the time for the nibs. this guitar
> could be a 'second', even though it's not stamped as such (that I can tell).


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

laristotle said:


> then again, how many counterfeiters take the time for the nibs.


That's an area in which I believe that Gibson really screwed up-not doing the nibs any more. It really was one thing that pretty much nobody else ever did.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

What about serial numbers and phoning Gibson's head office? Do some investigative homework! 

I know my guitars are what I paid for because I did some serious homework before I bought. I work too damned hard to get ripped off like that!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Lola said:


> What about serial numbers and phoning Gibson's head office? Do some investigative homework!
> 
> I know my guitars are what I paid for because I did some serious homework before I bought. I work too damned hard to get ripped off like that!


Exactly. It just stands to reason to do this if you are concerned.


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## Disbeat (Jul 30, 2011)

I thought you didn't care about this stuff?

And unless you didn't realize, if you can fake a guitar chances are you can fake a serial number.



Steadfastly said:


> Exactly. It just stands to reason to do this if you are concerned.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Lola said:


> What about serial numbers and phoning Gibson's head office? Do some investigative homework!
> 
> I know my guitars are what I paid for because I did some serious homework before I bought. I work too damned hard to get ripped off like that!


You can't do it that way but there is a verification method. I believe the best counterfeit makers get all of the details on one guitar and essentially copy that one. This way the serial checks out with the model and finish etc. So even the verification may not help. Familiarity with instruments is often the intangible that allows an experienced individual to point out a construction anomaly which points to authenticity or counterfeit.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

I can still tell the difference. You can tell the real thing if you've seen enough of them. When and if the Chinese start shooting them in nitro and do proper binding, contouring and pegheads, I'll always be able to tell. The Chibson's are still easy to spot.


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## Disbeat (Jul 30, 2011)

So can I, and probably the majority of people who have any interest in Gibson guitars. 
But there are probably still people out there getting ripped off and that is the problem



nonreverb said:


> I can still tell the difference. You can tell the real thing if you've seen enough of them. When and if the Chinese start shooting them in nitro and do proper binding, contouring and pegheads, I'll always be able to tell. The Chibson's are still easy to spot.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

I don't see anything in the pictures that say its fake, the china copies are not hard to see...they dont have the nibs, they dont have an ebony fret board.. ...and if you still think its fake, go look at it and if it weights 11.5 lbs, its real...LP were very heavy back then..


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## Stonehead (Nov 12, 2013)

Rick31797 said:


> I don't see anything in the pictures that say its fake, the china copies are not hard to see...they dont have the nibs, they dont have an ebony fret board.. ...and if you still think its fake, go look at it and if it weights 11.5 lbs, its real...LP were very heavy back then..


The guy is asking way too much for it. I was just curious to know if it was a fake or not, hence the starting of this thread.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

yes the price is crazy.. he thinks because of the color it should be worth the high asking price..




Stonehead said:


> The guy is asking way too much for it. I was just curious to know if it was a fake or not, hence the starting of this thread.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

nonreverb said:


> I can still tell the difference. You can tell the real thing if you've seen enough of them. When and if the Chinese start shooting them in nitro and do proper binding, contouring and pegheads, I'll always be able to tell. The Chibson's are still easy to spot.


I am not familiar with the telltale evidence of a fake Gibson! Could you tell me the what the dead giveaways would be? I guess there doing knock offs of Parker Nite Flys and such? The Chinese knock everything off. The local flea market is full of designer knock offs. It was on a local new station that the marshals went and confiscated a whole bunch of boot leg Chanel and Gucci purses! Women love to buy them and lie about them. " Oh look Rose, I bought a Gucci purse and it cost me a mortgage payment!" lmao


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Well, I am not as confident as the others in saying that I can always spot the fakes but the most obvious now that they have the truss rod cover, the pot placement and more of the obvious things under control (like the nibs as stated but not for any new model or one claiming to be new) is the nitro finish.

Nitro can be made to shine nicely but it doesn't reflect the light like poly...the fakes normally look like glass because that poly throws light around like mad. Nitro reflects more mellow like morning light instead of high noon.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

The most obvious is hardware but I suspect that will change eventually. Body contours still are funky and the headstocks are still wrong. As stated, the nib-less binding is another giveaway. The finishes are usually thick and very glossy as they're shot in poly. This is where the knockoff makers have difficulty as it's a time consuming art to apply good nitro finishes. They won't be able to do them and keep the price where they are now. Having said that who knows what the future holds. 



Lola said:


> I am not familiar with the telltale evidence of a fake Gibson! Could you tell me the what the dead giveaways would be? I guess there doing knock offs of Parker Nite Flys and such? The Chinese knock everything off. The local flea market is full of designer knock offs. It was on a local new station that the marshals went and confiscated a whole bunch of boot leg Chanel and Gucci purses! Women love to buy them and lie about them. " Oh look Rose, I bought a Gucci purse and it cost me a mortgage payment!" lmao


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Here we go again....
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-guitar/city-...om/1151803449?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

That's a really poor looking fake too. So sad.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Pretty obvious why he didn't post a pic of the front of headstock straight on. The back is scary enough.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

And another....

http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/bnc/msg/5470677723.html










Those knobs just don't seem right to me.


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## Misterock (May 30, 2009)

Guys from Epiphone seems to be making a lot of money selling those bridges....
I got in the wrong business...lol


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## Steve Adams (Dec 31, 2009)

Guys you act like Gibson has quality control. Over the past 5 years I have seen gibsons with great quality and others that were worse than the Chinese copies. Saw one a couple of weeks ago at a friends who does guitar repairs etc, it was a complete pile, bought brand new about 3 months earlier from an authorised Gibson dealer. The Gibson logo was just a sticker, and poorly applied at that. They are the most overrated pieces of wood being sold. They are pumping more guitars out now than the Chinese copiers. And with less quality control. Next up from Gibson is the joe Jonas and Justin beiber signature models.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

although i seem to hear alot of someone-who-knows-someone that got a bad gibby, it's a rare thing to see someone say _ i myself got a bad one, and here are the pics._
not that they aren't out there. i have seen a couple, in the last few years. i bought mine sight unseen 2 yrs ago, and my only complaint is one sticky slot in the plek-cut nut. all the ones i've picked up in the stores have been proper, but that could be due to where i shop, i dunno. for what they charge, there should be near zero factory defects. but IME, they're quality control doesn't seem to be any worse than anyone else out there


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Steve Adams said:


> Guys you act like Gibson has quality control. Over the past 5 years I have seen gibsons with great quality and others that were worse than the Chinese copies. Saw one a couple of weeks ago at a friends who does guitar repairs etc, it was a complete pile, bought brand new about 3 months earlier from an authorised Gibson dealer. The Gibson logo was just a sticker, and poorly applied at that. They are the most overrated pieces of wood being sold. They are pumping more guitars out now than the Chinese copiers. And with less quality control. Next up from Gibson is the joe Jonas and Justin beiber signature models.


They're part way there...


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## grumpyoldman (Jan 31, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> And another....
> 
> http://vancouver.craigslist.ca/bnc/msg/5470677723.html
> 
> ...


Hmmm...I dunno about this one... I did a Google search (https://www.google.ca/#q=gibson+faded+les+paul+double+cut+special) and then selected "images", and I can't see any difference in the knobs at all...they line up the same, and anyone can switch a reflector knob for a plain black witch-hat knob (I do it all the time). Absolutely no connection to the seller, by the way. I question whether or not this particular guitar is, in fact, a fake...at least, based on the pic and description alone...

John
thegrumpyoldman


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

cheezyridr said:


> although i seem to hear alot of someone-who-knows-someone that got a bad gibby, it's a rare thing to see someone say _ i myself got a bad one, and here are the pics._


Just saying but...who's going to admit have spent 2k in a worthless piece of wood?


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

The only thing i thought Gibson should have never did, is when they started selling seconds..b grade, whatever you call it, a very bad marketing decision for a company promoting quality. How many high end guitar companies do this...I only know of Gibson, this was many years ago but i walked in a store and they had 8 seconds and still wanted a pretty good dollar for them, one even had a twisted neck.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

sulphur said:


> They're part way there...
> 
> View attachment 19578


http://www.guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/bieber-gibson.59187/#post-509636
The "Biebs" J lefty was "confiscated" at boarder & sold a few years back.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Rick31797 said:


> The only thing i thought Gibson should have never did, is when they started selling seconds..b grade, whatever you call it, a very bad marketing decision for a company promoting quality. How many high end guitar companies do this...I only know of Gibson, this was many years ago but i walked in a store and they had 8 seconds and still wanted a pretty good dollar for them, one even had a twisted neck.



A friend of mine bought a high end snare for a good price that turned out to be a factory second. Even some of the good companies do it.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

amagras said:


> Just saying but...who's going to admit have spent 2k in a worthless piece of wood?


that's just the thing. with the way the internet is, i would fully expect to see it get posted. if you buy in the states you have a lifetime warranty. here in canada you get a year, i think. either way, with a new guitar you're not stuck with a lemon if you do get one.

i would expect if there was alot of it, you would see posts go something like "i bought this LP, and the the binding is bad, or the finish has mistakes, etc, should i take it back?" or "i took home this guitar and noticed this problem so i took it back and got something else." i'm very sure if that was happening i would have seen it on one of the 4 guitar forums i frequent daily. but i haven't seen that more than a couple of times in the last 3 or so yrs. for sure you would see it on the gibson forum and the gear page.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I agree, cheezy. Never played a bad Gibson, but I've only played hundreds of them. 

I have played a couple of bad Go........oh, I don't want to name names, but they are Canadian made and some people here just love them. So horse for courses - I just don't come here and rag on them when someone else is singing their praises, as I'm sure they make many more good guitars than bad. I was tainted by a couple of bad experiences. 



Rick31797 said:


> The only thing i thought Gibson should have never did, is when they started selling seconds..b grade, whatever you call it, a very bad marketing decision for a company promoting quality. How many high end guitar companies do this...I only know of Gibson, this was many years ago but i walked in a store and they had 8 seconds and still wanted a pretty good dollar for them, one even had a twisted neck.


Twisted neck would be nasty - but that can happen with non-seconds as well.

I bought a '77 LPC that was a 2nd (and still have it). The 12 fret inlay is miscolored - slightly yellowish. I'm glad they didn't throw away a stunning 10 lb example of that guitar over a blemish. I'm extra glad I lucked into a killer deal for a guitar I probably couldn't afford otherwise at the time (I was close to buying an Ibanez Musician for the same money, a great guitar but not iconic - and no comparison in resale value). 

@grumpyoldman You are probably right - I stumbled over that ad just after reading this string - and I probably jumped to conclusions. The angle just made the alignment of those pots look wrong. Upside up, not so much.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

High/Deaf: I'm OK with you not loving Godins as long as you're OK with me not loving Gibsons. Sound fair?

This whole Gibson quality control issue is one of those classic zombie topics I have seen resurrected time and time again on guitar forums. Nothing ever gets resolved, although a whole lot of feathers get ruffled along the way and people keep confusing opinions with facts.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

All I can say is that, the information I got, from people in the retail end that I trust...

"We send back way more Gibson's than Fender's"

That's not intended to (re)start the debate between the two, just what I was told. I doubt many duds (from any decent manufacturer) actually reach the wall o' guitars in any decent store. Which would explain the tales of poor QC _and_ the lack of first hand evidence.

There's also the fact that a set neck design, as opposed to bolt on, is more susceptible to any possible damage from environmental factors that might occur in transit, or in the store after delivery. A Fender might need an adjustment and go on the rack, but the Gibson can't be adjusted and has gotta go back.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I've owned plenty of both Gibsons and Fenders and love them all.

I've seen a couple of Gibson duds, but the ones I've owned have all been great guitars including the two I currently have.

I think making a guitar with a set neck and a carved top laminated to a different material for the back, is more challenging than bolting a Strat together.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

High/Deaf said:


> I agree, cheezy. *Never played a bad Gibson,* but I've only played hundreds of them.


Be that as it may, that doesn't mean all the people who have are lying. There are members here who have played bad ones and have no reason to lie about it.

All companies make bad guitars for one reason or another. If you go on eBay looking for a Godin, there are companies that regularly sell "B" stock Godins. Godin has sold them to these companies as such and the price is reduced. I don't believe I have ever seen that with Gibsons, Fenders or PRS. Perhaps they do and I just haven't seen it.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

You might notice I said "Never played a bad Gibson" and not "Gibson never made a bad guitar". I'm well aware of the difference in those two statements.



Steadfastly said:


> Be that as it may, that doesn't mean all the people who have are lying. There are members here who have played bad ones and have no reason to lie about it.
> 
> All companies make bad guitars for one reason or another. *If you go on eBay looking for a Godin, there are companies that regularly sell "B" stock Godins. Godin has sold them to these companies as such and the price is reduced. I don't believe I have ever seen that with Gibsons, Fenders or PRS. Perhaps they do and I just haven't seen it.*


From my above quote
__________
I bought a '77 LPC (1977 Gibson Les Paul Custom) that was a 2nd (and still have it). The 12 fret inlay is miscolored - slightly yellowish. I'm glad they didn't throw away a stunning 10 lb example of that guitar over a blemish. I'm extra glad I lucked into a killer deal for a guitar I probably couldn't afford otherwise at the time (I was close to buying an Ibanez Musician for the same money, a great guitar but not iconic - and no comparison in resale value). 
__________

So there's your answer. Gibson was doing it in 1978.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

IF you go to L&M web site they list B stock guitars from Gibson

https://www.long-mcquade.com/page/bstock/




I really have not owned alot of Gibsons, order two brand new ones , 28 yrs apart, the first one was great the second one was terrible..I have had better luck with fenders, i own 5 of them, The 3 USA models were great, right out of the case, the Korea model


Steadfastly said:


> Be that as it may, that doesn't mean all the people who have are lying. There are members here who have played bad ones and have no reason to lie about it.
> 
> All companies make bad guitars for one reason or another. If you go on eBay looking for a Godin, there are companies that regularly sell "B" stock Godins. Godin has sold them to these companies as such and the price is reduced. I don't believe I have ever seen that with Gibsons, Fenders or PRS. Perhaps they do and I just haven't seen it.


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