# Toronto, The Most Miserable City In Canada: Study



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Toronto, the most miserable city in Canada: study

1 hour, 46 minutes ago
Michael Bolen
Yahoo! Canada News

Bigger may not be better after all.

A study conducted by the Canadian Centre for the Study of Living Standards has concluded what many Canadians have long believed: That Toronto is the most miserable city in the country.

Toronto the most miserable city in Canada: study - Yahoo! Canada News


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Not planning any trips to Scarberia anytime soon


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

I have been coast to coast living in BC for 15 years.
What I can say is every city is very different once you get the feel of the flow.

Don't want to comment on good or bad, I am a bit jaded.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

that may be true, but from my pespective, toronto beats philly by a country mile.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

A lovely city if you can walk to the places you need to go to. An absolutely aggravating city if you have to get in a car to go anywhere. You can feel it the moment you enter the 401, 400, 427, DVP, or Gardiner. People resent what they have to go through to get anywhere, and they hold it against YOU. That's why they cut across 4 lanes without signalling other than via their middle finger.

That being said, a *statistically significant* difference is not always the same as a *meaningful* difference. A mean rating of 4.37/5.0 (what Sherbrooke rated) may be reliably higher than the mean rating obtained for Toronto (4.15/5.0), but it may not be meaningfully different. In other words Torontonians seem pretty happy, according to this scale, though not deliriously so. Folks in the other cities studied are also not deliriously blissed out (as evidenced by the top of the list being 4.37); they're just a tad happier than Torontonians. And I'll bet if you excluded those Torontonians who had to commute by car on the day/s the data was acquired, there'd likely be no difference.

The flaw is not in the numbers - I believe them - but rather in what the article chooses to make of the numbers. The numbers tell the truth, but the writer may not. Of course, nobody ever said you needed to have taken and passed a 3rd year stats course to write for an online news service.

Of course, if the folks living in tents outside Port-au-Prince, or living in Turkmenistan, Darfur, Zimbabwe, or Kandahar never drop lower than 4.15 on that scale (i.e., ALL ratings will fall somewhere between 4.15 and 4.37 or maybe 4.4), then I'd be willing to make something of the differences being reported. But I think we need a lot more information before jumping to the conclusions the writer is making.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

When it comes to cities, bigger is never better, 99% of the time. When I first moved from N.B. to Toronto's west end in 1972, the brown pollution cloud was out as far as the 427. Now it's quite a bit farther west just past Trafalgar Rd. towards Milton and the traffic is at least 3 times as bad on the highways but about the same on the streets as you get the same amount of business there as you always did. I won't even talk about the increase in violence.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

There are way too many factors to consider for any rating to be meaningful. If I had lots of money, lived in a nice home within walking distance to work and had a private plane that got me to the Muskoka cottage in a reasonable time I would say it was a heck of a place to live. 

The reality, for me when I put in my 10 years there, was traffic, traffic, traffic. Life is too short.

Right now I work out of my home, live by the sea and have enough money to get by. I'll give that a 4.85


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Most people I know who live in Toronto like it there. My daughter lives downtown and likes it there. Mind you, a lot of the people, mainly those who live downtown and not in the burbs, will be a little more miserable after December 1st. 

...And people who define a city in terms of driving, shouldn't be living there anyway.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I used to joke with people that if I ever ran for office, my slogan and platform would be ABT - Anywhere but Toronto. Not that I had anything against the place, but it simply didn't need to be any bigger than it was/is and more growth would ultimately work against it. So, if you wanted to emigrate to Canada, live anywhere outside of a 50-mile radius of Toronto and I'd make it worth your while, tax-wise. If you want to start a business, situate it anywhere outside of Toronto, and I'll make it worth your while. If you currently live in the GTA, move somewhere away from Toronto, and I'll make it worth your while. Toronto wouldn't miss 100,000 people, but Chatham NB and ON could probably use another 1,000 each. Swift Current, Napanee, Riviere-du-loup, Truro and Amherst could use another 2,000 each. Brandon another 2-3,000. Sudbury maybe a coupla thou, and 3,000 would bring Cornerbrook up to where it ought to be. And so on. These are all great places to live that would be even greater if there were some more customers for the businesses there. Toronto doesn't really need them.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

I was in Squamish BC a few weeks ago watching the eagles and seals in the river, standing in the rain and looking at the mountains.
This to me was just pure peace, I could taste it even more than that real fresh air.
The feeling is still there and I am thinking of retiring out there, if I was single I would buy a trailer home for $40,000 get a $10 dollar and hour job and start to live that life style I miss so bad. Of course I would find work in my field eventualy bike the life would come first.

My only fear is that i may be to old to enjoy the extreme sport portion of that life when I get back.










http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll189/bevo137/DSC_0458.jpg[/IMG

[IMG]http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll189/bevo137/DSC_0463.jpg


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Who won't be miserable when all the sports teams in TO suck. Leafs, Raptors, Jays, Argos, etc...


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Toronto is a beautiful city to visit. Getting in and out is a pain in the ass. Our mass transit systems are piss poor in this country. 

Having said that, I wouldn't want to live in ANY major city. 100km away is as close as I want to be.


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

I've always loved Tronno when I've visited, but so many big cities are much like other major cities in a lot of ways. If you're into shopping, nightlife, diverse food, etc., then the big cities can't be beat, but for actual day-to-day commuting and chilling out, they suck.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Milkman said:


> Toronto is a beautiful city to visit. Getting in and out is a pain in the ass. Our mass transit systems are piss poor in this country.
> 
> Having said that, I wouldn't want to live in ANY major city. 100km away is as close as I want to be.


i ride the ttc to work and back everyday. from lake ontario, all the way to vaughn. it's easy to see where improvents could be made, but for me, i think it's pretty good compared to anywhere else i have ever been.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Haha what I like about Toronto? You can drive there from Fort Erie and unless you miss a road sign, you will never know when you left one town for the next before getting there. Land divisions are mostly in the minds of the people who want to write a different word other than "Toronto" on their mailbox. The greater truth is that there is very little land between New Market and Fort Erie that isn't city and I am a good 6 or 8 years out of the loop for how dense the build up is.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Toronto has sucked since the early '80's at least, before that I don't know. Was too young to drive. I have never got to my destination on the first try in that hell hole, the people are cold and rushed. I just do not like the place.

BTW, what is blue and white, blue and white, blue and white, and lives in the basement.........the leafs, argos, and jays


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

cheezyridr said:


> i ride the ttc to work and back everyday. from lake ontario, all the way to vaughn. it's easy to see where improvents could be made, but for me, i think it's pretty good compared to anywhere else i have ever been.


Ever been to Japan?

If you live anywhere outside of the GTA you have to take a greyhound or maybe via rail.

It's not practical. Right in Toronto the subways. streetcars and buses suffice, but the reason so many people drive cars in Southern Ontario is because the mass transit is lacking.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Milkman said:


> Ever been to Japan?


that's why i used the qualifier, _compared to anywhere else i've ever been_. my wife is from japan, so i have heard all about their public transit. with the population density they have, they couldn't otherwise exist.
however, i am from the states, and our transit makes toronto look like a shining example. it's that bad. hahahaha
probably just like everywhere else, toronto will step up their game when the time is long past due, with measures that fall quite short.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

cheezyridr said:


> that's why i used the qualifier, _compared to anywhere else i've ever been_. my wife is from japan, so i have heard all about their public transit. with the population density they have, they couldn't otherwise exist.
> however, i am from the states, and our transit makes toronto look like a shining example. it's that bad. hahahaha
> probably just like everywhere else, toronto will step up their game when the time is long past due, with measures that fall quite short.


Yes it's true, mass transit all over North America is light years behind Japan and much of Europe as well. Toronto is much like most major urban centres on this continent in that it's still much more convenient for anyone not living in the core, to drive their own car as opposed to using mass transit.

It's not really that I think Toronto is such a lousy place. It's ALL major cities.

As I mentioned, Toronto is a great place to visit.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Milkman said:


> It's ALL major cities.


no argument there, hahahaha. i never liked city livin. i tolerate it now, but i hope to escape someday.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Bevo said:


> I was in Squamish BC a few weeks ago watching the eagles and seals in the river, standing in the rain and looking at the mountains.
> This to me was just pure peace, I could taste it even more than that real fresh air.
> The feeling is still there and I am thinking of retiring out there, if I was single I would buy a trailer home for $40,000 get a $10 dollar and hour job and start to live that life style I miss so bad. Of course I would find work in my field eventualy bike the life would come first.
> 
> ...


 Oh Bev, you got my attention now. nice bikes! I can't wait to get a new one this spring. Likely getting a Cannondale Flash 29r. LOVE squamish too btw.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Bevo said:


> I was in Squamish BC a few weeks ago watching the eagles and seals in the river, standing in the rain and looking at the mountains.
> This to me was just pure peace, I could taste it even more than that real fresh air.
> The feeling is still there and I am thinking of retiring out there, if I was single I would buy a trailer home for $40,000 get a $10 dollar and hour job and start to live that life style I miss so bad. Of course I would find work in my field eventualy bike the life would come first.
> 
> ...


I like the mountains too but I prefer less spinning of the tire when I descend and more of the "swish" sound at 60-70mph.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

the coolest bike in the world


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It kinda looks like what I'd end up with if IKEA made bikes and I tried to assemble a normal one.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> the coolest bike in the world


must be a B Otch to get up hills though!


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Hey Bevo lots of older folks bike up those hills all the time out here, the only biatch is that here in BC a 2 bedroom will sell for around $725,000.00 were as being where you are you guys apperently sell homes for about $200,000.00 less for the same home and good luck finding a job out that way for $10.00/hour sorry but they are almost always grabbed up by our friends from Aussie and New Zealanders looking to ski Whistler and Blackcomb for a few years.
But it is gorgeous looking at all those eagles and rivers up that way, did you get to Shannon falls while you were out here.Ship........oh and hiking the Black Tusk is kinda fun to except for the occasional bear or two.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...well said!



mhammer said:


> A lovely city if you can walk to the places you need to go to. An absolutely aggravating city if you have to get in a car to go anywhere. You can feel it the moment you enter the 401, 400, 427, DVP, or Gardiner. People resent what they have to go through to get anywhere, and they hold it against YOU. That's why they cut across 4 lanes without signalling other than via their middle finger.
> 
> That being said, a *statistically significant* difference is not always the same as a *meaningful* difference. A mean rating of 4.37/5.0 (what Sherbrooke rated) may be reliably higher than the mean rating obtained for Toronto (4.15/5.0), but it may not be meaningfully different. In other words Torontonians seem pretty happy, according to this scale, though not deliriously so. Folks in the other cities studied are also not deliriously blissed out (as evidenced by the top of the list being 4.37); they're just a tad happier than Torontonians. And I'll bet if you excluded those Torontonians who had to commute by car on the day/s the data was acquired, there'd likely be no difference.
> 
> ...


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