# lip Synching



## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Should it be proclaimed in advance? I think so, while some of these people are performers, I don't think they should call themselves singers.

http://www.cbc.ca/arts/music/story/2009/11/06/britney-lip-sync-australia-concerts.html


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Is it live or Memorex? 

Honestly, if Spears and other pop stars are just going to lip synch while dancing, they might as well stop touring and just release DVDs.


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

I wish Brit would stop touring _*and *_stop releasing DVDs. :smile::smile:


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> Is it live or Memorex?
> 
> Honestly, if Spears and other pop stars are just going to lip synch while dancing, they might as well stop touring and just release DVDs.


...in defense of brtitney, madonna, mj etc, my voice pathologist tells me that it is virtually impossible for a human being to dance and sing (properly) simultaneously.

the exception to this is bruce springsteen. he admitted there is no scientific explanation for that man's ability to give both his body and and his vocal chords such a superhuman workout each night.

-dh


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

david henman said:


> ...in defense of brtitney, madonna, mj etc, my voice pathologist tells me that it is virtually impossible for a human being to dance and sing (properly) simultaneously.
> 
> the exception to this is bruce springsteen. he admitted there is no scientific explanation for that man's ability to give both his body and and his vocal chords such a superhuman workout each night.
> 
> -dh


yeah you can usually tell pretty easily who's singing and not.
if they are bouncing around like mad, and they voice doesn't waver in the slightest, that's clue #1.
still, the Aussie judge does have a point. might as well lay it out clearly in the marketing.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

david henman said:


> ...in defense of brtitney, madonna, mj etc, my voice pathologist tells me that it is virtually impossible for a human being to dance and sing (properly) simultaneously.
> 
> *the exception to this is bruce springsteen. he admitted there is no scientific explanation for that man's ability to give both his body and and his vocal chords such a superhuman workout each night.*
> 
> -dh


Might be the difference between singing and shouting, or dancing and stomping :sport-smiley-002: 

I'm obviously not in favour of lip synching, but its just the most obvious abuse of technology in live performances, not the only one. As long as the artist originally sang the part (unlike, say Milli Vaniili), I'm not sure its that much worse than when musicians use loops and samples live or drummers using drum machines/midi through headphones to help keep time, or even "extra" musicians playing while hiding behind the curtain. All are just "cheats" to deliver a better sounding concert by bringing that studio mojo magic to the stage.

In the end, its up to the fans to decide...and most of the artists doing lip synching, cater to audiences who dont really give a damn, they're just in awe of being in the presence of the persona and the whole spectacle, not artistic integrity.



Thats a great pic, Puckhead. Never saw it before. Luv Ashlee's expression "there goes my musical career! Hope I can do something to get another reality show!".

Sad thing is, her cd at the time was actually pretty good for that genre. More Avril Lavigne than Jessica Simpson.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

you rarely get the real deal. even most of your great guitarist use a fake set up on stage. it looks like they're playing through that giant marshall they endorse in the magazine, but actually, under the stage is the real set up they use, mic'd into the p/a. jimmy page was notorious for this very thing.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

With the changes in concerts over the past 15 years or so it does not surprise me. The "new" generation of acts are all about the "show". They are major extravaganzas and are meant to be more of a visual experience than a sonic one. The music and songs just become a part of the actual show and are not the centerpiece at all. 

Of course, theatre in live concerts is not exactly new, Alice Cooper etc

But when have you ever seen a concert review of someone like Britney Spears and so many others like her where someone posted "what a great set-list"? It's never about the songs, it's about the show. My daughter went to see Brit twice on this tour and thought it was the greatest thing she has ever seen. maybe it was, but it was the show and not the music. The productions themselves are huge and they are complex and entertaining. But when you stretch out a 2 minute song into a 15 minute mini movie it's purely filling in the alloted stage time.

Frankly, I don't understand what the complaints are about. If she came out and just sang for two hours people would be demanding their money back. She and her handlers are giving the ticket buyers exactly what they want. A spectacle and a great visual experience.

I am so glad that I lived in an era where I got to see bands like Rush, Triumph, AC/DC, Kiss, Floyd, Zep, VH, Metallica, Scorpions and so many more in their prime years. I will even go to see them now. At least it's in your face rock and rock and they are actually playing those intruments.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

When I go to see a live performance I prefer it to be live. I'll do without the dancing. If I want dancing I can go to a disco or stripper bar.

I would MUCH rather have the music performed live than synced to alow someone to dance.


That's just me.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> With the changes in concerts over the past 15 years or so it does not surprise me. The "new" generation of acts are all about the "show". They are major extravaganzas and are meant to be more of a visual experience than a sonic one. The music and songs just become a part of the actual show and are not the centerpiece at all.
> 
> Of course, theatre in live concerts is not exactly new, Alice Cooper etc
> 
> ...


I agree with everything in your post except, 1 minor detail...the inclusion of Metallica in a list of great performers. After seeing those sloppy drunks stumble around the stage, getting the timing and in a lot of cases, notes, wrong all night at Copps Coliseum in the early 90's, I pretty much wanted a refund. Biggest disappointment in a live performance in my life. They were pretty much the anti-Britney, although equally arrogant. Instead of cheating to enhance the performance, it was as if they couldnt care less how bad they performed. We were to simply feel honoured to pay to be in their inebriated presence with a ton of volume behind them. Any musical quality was simply a bonus.
Sorry for the rant, I just became a very disillusioned fan from the subpar experience.

Bang on about the Britney concert though. I watched her Live in Las Vegas DVD, for some reason thinking it might be entertaining....Terrible. Bizarre medleys of half songs of hits spliced together, interrupted by interludes of long pre-recorded videos clips with strange pedophilic overtones, and tons of costume changes. She looked great though, and the kids didnt seem to notice.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

check out this guy getting caught...ha ha ha...:smile:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc27kgv0Fq0


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

jimihendrix said:


> check out this guy getting caught...ha ha ha...:smile:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc27kgv0Fq0



Man, I can't believe people put up with this shit. Honestly, isn't it as bad as the "Matrix", all these talentless millionaire assholes pretending to be performers? The list of top entertainers that engage in this scam is over the top. When they *do* get caught, they almost invariably feign ill health, or strained vocal chords. If Eric Clapton sprained his wrist or cut his hand, what would his fans make of him "air guitaring" a concert? Maybe that's just it, if the fans put up with it....they deserve it!

Shawn


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

If they're actually singing and playing instruments-it's a concert.
If they're faking it's a performance.

Just be upfront about it.

Some acts people go to see the choreography--so whether it's sung live or not really doesn't matter to them--they want to see the dance moves.

But it's a dance performance, not a musical concert.

Just be open about it.

I like when you go to a concert and they make a mistake, and then work it in to the show.
Mark Knopfler did that years ago when he got some unexpected feedback during a song, and he got a big cheer for it.
Never would have happened with lip synching and air guitar.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

jimihendrix said:


> check out this guy getting caught...ha ha ha...:smile:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc27kgv0Fq0


That was awesome - thanks for posting. kkjuw


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## Spikezone (Feb 2, 2006)

Milkman said:


> When I go to see a live performance I prefer it to be live. I'll do without the dancing. If I want dancing I can go to a disco or stripper bar.
> 
> I would MUCH rather have the music performed live than synced to alow someone to dance.


TOTALLY!
-Mikey


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Neal Peart touchs on the subject of loops in his last book Roadshow. ALthough they really don't like to do it, they realise that some songs require a loop or two as they are only a three piece. However, they keep their integrity by taking turns triggering the necessary parts. No one pushes a button for them.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> Neal Peart touchs on the subject of loops in his last book Roadshow. ALthough they really don't like to do it, they realise that some songs require a loop or two as they are only a three piece. However, they keep their integrity by taking turns triggering the necessary parts. No one pushes a button for them.


Loops I can understand. A lot of rock songs have loops that can't be covered by the musicians live. For instance, I really like the Muse, and Matt is a great pianist and guitarist, but many songs have both parts simultaneously. Early in their career, before they could afford a touring keyboardist, some keys were covered by loops or pre-recorded stuff and he only played live keys for songs that didn't require guitar at the same time. I can dig that, because at least he and the rest of the band were actually playing and singing something else at the time. 

However, pre-recorded stuff can be tricky. Who else remembers the infamous Van Halen "Jump" performance?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

jimihendrix said:


> check out this guy getting caught...ha ha ha...:smile:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc27kgv0Fq0


Yeah that's a good one for sure. He was down for quite awhile. I'm sure nobody noticed, LOL.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

at least green day hire a guitarist (jason white) to play with them on stage to cover overdubs etc...you can clearly see him on stage...even though they keep him in the shadows somewhat...

he's shown at 2:36 here...3:50 (solo section)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzhyt8LsRAQ


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

jimihendrix said:


> check out this guy getting caught...ha ha ha...:smile:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc27kgv0Fq0


Wow, that's a lot of wireless guitars! kqoct

The worst thing about this is that the singer doesn't even look like he's practiced lip synching. It doens't even look real, and that's before his swan dive.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

hollowbody said:


> Wow, that's a lot of wireless guitars! kqoct
> 
> The worst thing about this is that the singer doesn't even look like he's practiced lip synching. It doens't even look real, and that's before his swan dive.


Great song this, wireless in 1963 hwopv 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j09C8clJaXo

Oh heck, they even have invisible amps too :rockon2:


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

hollowbody said:


> Loops I can understand. A lot of rock songs have loops that can't be covered by the musicians live. For instance, I really like the Muse, and Matt is a great pianist and guitarist, but many songs have both parts simultaneously. Early in their career, before they could afford a touring keyboardist, some keys were covered by loops or pre-recorded stuff and he only played live keys for songs that didn't require guitar at the same time. I can dig that, because at least he and the rest of the band were actually playing and singing something else at the time.
> 
> However, pre-recorded stuff can be tricky. Who else remembers the infamous Van Halen "Jump" performance?


Never liked Van Halen so was never on my radar.

I do agree about loops and other segments. Ian Anderson (Jethro Tull) does that in his performance and admits it too. As he says, it is against all matters of physics to play a flute and sing at the same time. For songs created in studio, one person laying all the tracks, the idea they can do that LIVE is ... insane. Some performers have hired guest musicians, others use their prerecording. Its still honest, which is a word Britt is possibly not familiar with.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i thought the ventures did pipeline? kqoct


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

keeperofthegood said:


> Great song this, wireless in 1963 hwopv
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j09C8clJaXo
> 
> Oh heck, they even have invisible amps too :rockon2:


Well, I think we can count these sort of performances as exceptions--I think most people knew they weren't really playing live.
Heck, I knew that as a small child that on variety shows, chances are they were lip synching.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

cheezyridr said:


> i thought the ventures did pipeline? kqoct


kqoct I had too, till my wife showed me that. I don't know what else these boys did, but they sure started a musical continuance!




zontar said:


> Well, I think we can count these sort of performances as exceptions--I think most people knew they weren't really playing live.
> Heck, I knew that as a small child that on variety shows, chances are they were lip synching.



:bow: I was always slow as a kid when it came to anything as done by humans.


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

keeperofthegood said:


> Great song this, wireless in 1963 hwopv
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j09C8clJaXo
> 
> Oh heck, they even have invisible amps too :rockon2:


to be fair, it would be pretty tough to play like with intense choreography like that :smile:


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

Diablo said:


> Might be the difference between singing and shouting, or dancing and stomping :sport-smiley-002:
> 
> I'm obviously not in favour of lip synching, but its just the most obvious abuse of technology in live performances, not the only one. As long as the artist originally sang the part (unlike, say Milli Vaniili), I'm not sure its that much worse than when musicians use loops and samples live or drummers using drum machines/midi through headphones to help keep time, or even "extra" musicians playing while hiding behind the curtain. All are just "cheats" to deliver a better sounding concert by bringing that studio mojo magic to the stage.
> 
> ...


Ashlee Simpson is very cute now that she's been to the...err...dentist.


Beyonce just did a show in Seoul. I read that some people who attended weren't happy that she lip synced. I can understand their frustration. She seems to have a good voice, far better than most of the local pop singers (many lip sync because they are tone deaf). That's what she's better known for here, not her long legs. Her fans showed up expecting a concert, not a "performance".

Well, kinda...

http://www.theinsider.com/news/2066540_Howard_Sterm_Exposes_Beyonce_Lip_Syncing


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

keeperofthegood said:


> Great song this, wireless in 1963 hwopv
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j09C8clJaXo
> 
> Oh heck, they even have invisible amps too :rockon2:


Things were different back then. Many TV audio engineers couldn't figure out how to properly mic rock bands to make them sound good. Also, if the band lip sync'ed, the show only had to pay scale since the band didn't actually "play". In other words, the band comes off looking good, sounding good, gets a ton of exposure and makes a few bucks at the same time. It was all part of the "Dick Clark's American Bandstand" syndrome.


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