# Smooth Jazz ?? ...anybody??...be honest...LOL



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Why is it that smooth jazz never gets a mention in the forum?

I started a thread on this topic many years ago and everyone seemed to go "EWWWWWW...YUK"

Is it really that distasteful or are there folks in the forum that just won't admit to listening to this underground music?


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

I don't mind smooth jazz, but I think that most of it, especially lately, is designed to be background music so it really doesn't command one's attention. I think that its biggest crime is being inoffensive.


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## Hear Ye Music (Dec 19, 2012)

I am a big fan of the late Jeff Golub. His playing is always tasteful and melodic.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Hear Ye Music said:


> I am a big fan of the late Jeff Golub. His playing is always tasteful and melodic.


Ironic you should mention Jeff Golub. I have had one of his CD's for years and always enjoyed it. Shame that he passed away at such a young age (59). A lot of sadness in his last few years.

From Wiki...

In 2011, Golub started to lose his eyesight due to a collapsed optic nerve. In September 2012, he fell on the tracks of a subway but was saved by people nearby. He was taken to the hospital with minor injuries.[2][4][5][6] Soon after, he released the album _The Train Keeps A-Rollin'_ with keyboardist Brian Auger.[2]

In 2014, he was diagnosed with a rare brain disease, progressive supranuclear palsy, and in 2015 he died from the disease at the age of 59.[2][5][7]


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I think the jazz.fm station in Toronto plays smooth jazz a reasonable amount. I used to try and listen to that station fairly frequently over the wintertime, so I know I heard some .

I don't mind it, but I don't go looking for it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Over the years, jazz made a conscious effort to liberate itself from the strictures of classic melody, harmony, and song structure. That's not wrong, but it requires concentration to enjoy, and in any event is only enjoyable in moderate doses. Swinging the pendulum the complete other way, jazz has always been conscious of melody, but melody in the absence of trajectory and a sense of movement and dynamics, can get boring pretty quick too.

Creed Taylor's CTI label always cornered the market on melodic-but-interesting jazz., while Manfred Eicher's ECM label took the other corner of melodic-but-exploratory jazz, and content that covered the overlap between jazz and "new music". Both labels released plenty of music that could be enjoyed without having to pay close attention, which sort of makes them contenders for "smooth jazz".

My sense is that any general antipathy towards smooth jazz is really antipathy towards Kenny G. Is Pat Metheny or Bill Frisell "smooth jazz"? If they are thinking about melodic structure, and not simply going through the moves, then I would say no.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

I am more of a classic old time jazz listener but not into all smooth jazz tunes. Some of them are very good. Question of taste i guess.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Not sure what "Smooth Jazz" is, but the spotify playlist "Coffeetable Jazz" gets a decent amount of play at our house. Great way to wind down the evening. I could listen to a decent brass or woodwind lead over soft piano any time I want to wind my brain down after a rough day.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Antonio Carlos Jobim. Genius.

Jerry Murad and his Harmonicats. Love it. 

George Benson. Saw him at the Village Vanguard playing toons from _The Other Side of Abbey Road._ 

Al DiMeola. I own & study his book: _Scales, Chords, and Arpeggios_ 

"People couldn't recognize good music if it bit them on the ass." -- Frank Zappa 

I also like a lot of "soft rock". Whatever that is...


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

Kapn, i don't consider any of those you mention to be smooth jazz. Just great players and music. Don't forget Earl Klug.
Kenny G. on the other hand is ear pablum for the hearing impaired. Elevator music.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

It's a fine line. One guy's pablum is another guy's dynamite.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)




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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

I don't know if this is smooth or just cool. But Dan Berglund is my favourite jazz bassist.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@Xelebes Thanks very much for posting this! I thoroughly enjoyed it. I would not call it "smooth jazz" personally, but it is excellent jazz, IMO. 

Here is one for you in return...





I found this while researching E.S.T....So sad!!

*Esbjörn Svensson* (16 April 1964 – *14 June 2008*) was a Swedish jazz pianist and founder of the jazz group Esbjörn Svensson Trio, commonly known as E.S.T. Svensson became one of Europe's most successful jazz musicians at the turn of the 21st century before dying, at the *age of 44, in a scuba diving accident.*


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Hmmmmmmm,....*NO.*


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Robert1950 said:


> Hmmmmmmm,....*NO.*


Mmmmmmmmmmmm,...*NO WHAT?*


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Smooth Jazz, be honest, do I like it? .................... NO. Don't hate it, just don't like it.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

"smooth jazz" annoys me, just like elevator music does

I do like "non-smooth jazz" though, quite a lot. Even though I can't play it to save my life

I forgive George Benson for being an official "smooth jazz" endorser, complete with the "smooth jazz" cruise ship thing,.... yuck.....just because he is such a monster player and I like a lot of his older stuff.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I listen to lots of jazz. Anything from Thelonius Monk to John Coltrane, Lionel Hampton, Oscar Peterson.... List goes on


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Not a big fan, just a very marginal one.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Based on the affinity many here have for Marshalls and Les Pauls, I suspect the failure-to-bond is simply a result of that segment of jazz not being aggressive or energetic enough. I suspect that if we were to identify a segment of popular music as "smooth rock", it would be disliked by the same folks. They expect (and this is not a weakness or character failure on anyone's part; merely an aesthetic preference) that music should exhibit a quality that is _not_ relaxing; that it should have, and build to, peaks. And, in the spirit of the very earliest rock-and-roll, it should have at least _some_ rebellion to it. And jazz that concentrates on melodic structure, in a more pensive way, lacks a lot of that.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Budda said:


> I think the jazz.fm station in Toronto plays smooth jazz a reasonable amount. I used to try and listen to that station fairly frequently over the wintertime, so I know I heard some .
> 
> I don't mind it, but I don't go looking for it.


I'll bet that you are referring to JAZZ FM 91.1 
JAZZ.FM91 - Jazz and the Arts

It is a very well regarded station and covers all aspects of Jazz. 

IIRC, there is also a program on Saturday evenings devoted to the Blues


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I think any jazz can be smooth jazz if you listen to it through a waterpipe.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

greco said:


> I'll bet that you are referring to JAZZ FM 91.1
> JAZZ.FM91 - Jazz and the Arts
> 
> It is a very well regarded station and covers all aspects of Jazz.
> ...


Thats the one.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

Jazz FM is a great station, I listen to it all the time

great blues session saturdays

also if you're into live music do one of their "jazz safari's"

they drive you around in a bus all night, to different venues, accompanied by one of the DJ's.

so you can drink and not worry about driving 

I've done it a couple times, it's a blast. James B is hilarious


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

bolero said:


> Jazz FM is a great station, I listen to it all the time
> 
> great blues session saturdays
> 
> ...


Their jazz safaris are so tempting!

They did a "safari" to our local jazz club in Waterloo recently. I go there reasonably often and it gave me a sense of pride that they chose it.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I like kick ass jazz.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Wardo said:


> I like kick ass jazz.


Any examples from Youtube, etc?


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## mario (Feb 18, 2006)

If "Smooth Jazz" includes the likes of Wes Montgomery, Pat Metheny, Larry Carlton then yes I'm a huge fan.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mario said:


> If "Smooth Jazz" includes the likes of Wes Montgomery, Pat Metheny, Larry Carlton then yes I'm a huge fan.


Personally, I would not include any of those guitarists in a list of smooth jazz artists. However, it is like extremely subjective.


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## mario (Feb 18, 2006)

greco said:


> Personally, I would not include any of those guitarists in a list of smooth jazz artists. However, it is like extremely subjective.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mario said:


>


No, no...be 

I would prefer to listen to virtually any of the guitarists you mentioned in comparison to many (but not all) of the "Smooth Jazz" guitarists!


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Budda said:


> I think the jazz.fm station in Toronto plays smooth jazz a reasonable amount. I used to try and listen to that station fairly frequently over the wintertime, so I know I heard some .
> 
> I don't mind it, but I don't go looking for it.


The smooth jazz label for me is the background music @bw66 described. I guess it boils down to semantics but maybe soft jazz is sometimes played on jazz.fm but i would not categorize it as smooth jazz.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Alex said:


> The smooth jazz label for me is the background music @bw66 described. I guess it boils down to semantics but maybe soft jazz is sometimes played on jazz.fm but i would not categorize it as smooth jazz.


I'm not enough of a jazz guy to know haha.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

greco said:


> Personally, I would not include any of those guitarists in a list of smooth jazz artists. However, it is like extremely subjective.


Not sure exactly what you consider _smooth jazz_? You've commented on some you think are not, but it may be more helpful to mention more who you think are.
You also mentioned 'underground' which confuses me even more. When Kenny G is the name that seems to pop up most often, the only relation to 'underground' I can figure is when the elevator is below ground floor.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

greco said:


> Any examples from Youtube, etc?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Wardo said:


>


OK


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

greco said:


> OK


Sugar Pie DeSanto - Rock Me Baby (Live 1964) - YouTube


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

ok here ya go....this appears to be a good sampler of SMOOTH JAZZ






and if you need some more, here is another 10 hours of it:







where is that confounded baby oil....


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

From the undisputed source of all truth:
Smooth jazz - Wikipedia


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@jb welder It seems that @bolero and @bw66 did all of the work for me. 

@bolero Excellent choices!...Thanks for taking the time to find and post them. 

@bw66 I was actually going to post the same thing from Wiki. Thanks.

Here is some additional information..
Category:Smooth jazz guitarists - Wikipedia

As for any genre, it will be somewhat difficult to be precise because of the subjectivity, cross over and some similarities, etc.



jb welder said:


> You also mentioned 'underground' which confuses me even more.


"underground" was a bad choice of a word on my part. I should have used something like "closet listeners".


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

I wouldn't know what "smooth" jazz is but after borrowing some jazz cd's, I'm really starting to like it, especially at work. I'm getting weary of heavy music. For years I listened to hard rock and early metal but now I find it too dark and angry. I need music to keep me calm. I switched more to blues and now moving into this jazz stuff.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

bolero said:


> Jazz FM is a great station, I listen to it all the time


I listened to it a lot in my old apartment ... my rig would pick it up (until I moved it across the room).

Then for a while there in the late 90s/early 2000s, rock radio really sucked so that was the least offensive thing to listen to in the car.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I suspect that if we collectively listened to much of the jazz that preceded 1958 or so, a great deal of it would be lumped under the "smooth" banner, simply because a significant share (though certainly not all) was primarily concerned with melody and being danceable, often close to one's dance partner. "Jazz" has become so inextricably linked with improvisation and more frenetic rhythms, that if it _doesn't_ contain improvisational elements and bold departures from the melody or chord structure, we tend to think of it as too tame, and hence too "smooth". We forget that, once upon a time, Benny Goodman, Artie Shaw, and Glenn Miller were considered adventurous artists. Same way, the Beatles or even the Ventures would be considered pretty safe and innocuous these days, despite having elicited a "WTF?" reaction in their day.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

bolero said:


> ok here ya go....this appears to be a good sampler of SMOOTH JAZZ
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Bo, this pretty much nails it. "Music to do something else to."


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

And that's why I said "a great deal of it", and not ALL of it. There is plenty of older stuff that is as rockin' as we expect from contemporary artists. But there is also plenty that we would think of as soporific, even if it made 17 years olds in 1943 horny as hell.

Tastes and styles change. What had the subtext of "rebellious" in 1933 is not necessarily recognized as such now. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. And thanks for the clips.


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

Before 1945, jazz was pretty much confined to dancefloors. After 1945, the ballroom tax hit which caused jazz to find other venues. Namely, coffeehouses. Because the ballroom tax made performing expensive, racism kicked in and black artists found themselves not playing in ballrooms anymore. Bebop formed in the coffeehouses as a form of rebellion by black artists. Also, due to racism, several thinkers started declaring that jazz was the classical music for the African American. This idea spread to Africa and so Highlife was developed. As the notions of classical music began to take hold, different theories began to pop up: mode, free, cool, smooth. Remember, these all developed in the 1950s.

Prior to 1945, it was ballrooms all the time. The shim sham, the lindy hop, the charleston, the black bottom, the rag, the barbary coast dances, and so on. Stuff that was for bars and cabarets was usually blues, soul and gospel.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Xelebes said:


> Before 1945, jazz was pretty much confined to dancefloors. After 1945, the ballroom tax hit which caused jazz to find other venues. Namely, coffeehouses. Because the ballroom tax made performing expensive, racism kicked in and black artists found themselves not playing in ballrooms anymore. Bebop formed in the coffeehouses as a form of rebellion by black artists. Also, due to racism, several thinkers started declaring that jazz was the classical music for the African American. This idea spread to Africa and so Highlife was developed. As the notions of classical music began to take hold, different theories began to pop up: mode, free, cool, smooth. Remember, these all developed in the 1950s.
> 
> Prior to 1945, it was ballrooms all the time. The shim sham, the lindy hop, the charleston, the black bottom, the rag, the barbary coast dances, and so on. Stuff that was for bars and cabarets was usually blues, soul and gospel.


Thanks! VERY interesting. 
What source(s) would you suggest for reading more on this topic?


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

nkjanssen said:


> "Smooth jazz" didn't really become a thing until the 70's. Kenny G is the quintessential smooth jazz artist. *Nothing in the 50's or prior sounds anything like that (thank god).*


Thanks for the laugh!


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I don't know what I am talking about with Jazz. I am not fond of the stuff where it sounds like everyone in the band is playing a different tune at the same time.

I like this though...is that classified as smooth jazz?


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

greco said:


> Thanks! VERY interesting.
> What source(s) would you suggest for reading more on this topic?


For the death of the Big Band, look here:

My Jazz Can Beat Up Your Jazz: Jazz, Tax, Facts


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Dedicated to @nkjanssen .... NOTE ...*apparently* from the Newport *JAZZ *Festival


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

nkjanssen said:


> I can't think of a single song before the 60's that I'd consider "smooth jazz". Slow jazz? Sure. But nothing that sounds anything like the smooth jazz genre. "Smooth jazz" didn't really become a thing until the 70's. Kenny G is the quintessential smooth jazz artist. Nothing in the 50's or prior sounds anything like that (thank god).


Try Nat King Cole. A terrific piano player, and his guitarist Oscar Moore was a great picker, and I like it, but it was music you could nurse a decaf to.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)




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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Sure, he sounds nothing like what contemporary "smooth jazz" is understood to be. My comment was with reference to an earlier post in the thread that a great deal of early , as hip and revolutionary as it may have been for its time, sounds quite tame to contemporary audiences...tame enough that they might treat it as the smooth jazz of an earlier era. We also categorize Buddy Holly and Elvis as rock-and-roll artists but a listen to "True Love Ways" or "Love Me Tender" would instantly put them in the "easy listening category".

I may not have been clear enough earlier, but the superficial perception that anything jazzy that never gets loud and concentrates more on melody, can get mistakenly classified as "smooth jazz". My point is that this is inaccurate. And if it was even a wee bit accurate then that would make a whole lot of jazz from the first 2/3 of the 20th century "smooth"....which it wasn't. And if anyone was fool enough to put Lenny Breau in that category, well I guess I'd have to find out where they live, come over to their house, and hurt them.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@nkjanssen 

Did you see (my) post #55? 
Are we still friends?


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Scotty said:


> ... I switched more to blues and now moving into this jazz stuff.


There's a local FM jazz station which I listen to when I'm driving. You should probably be able to get it. It's mixed up styles fairly well and there's some english guy has an afternoon show plays a lot of hard core old jazz. As for radio, the only things I can stand usually are the classical stations and the jazz station.


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2017)

Let's throw some fiddle/violin into the mix.


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

Jim DaddyO said:


> I don't know what I am talking about with Jazz. I am not fond of the stuff where it sounds like everyone in the band is playing a different tune at the same time.
> 
> I like this though...is that classified as smooth jazz?


lol. What you said is more or less what the other guitarist in my old band said. Direct quote from him: "Jazz is five different people playing five different songs at the same time." I've never forgotten that. As for smooth jazz, I think Kenny G is probably the ambassador for that style of playing.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

smooth jazz...floating down the gutter, on a piece of bread and butter


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

laristotle said:


> Let's throw some fiddle/violin into the mix.


I saw Jean-Luc Ponty play with Frank Zappa in Maple Leaf Gardens in the early seventies. Only two songs were sung: _Redunzel_ and _Cosmic_ _Debris_. The rest was an instrumental jam-session, while the wives sat on a couch at a coffee table with drinks. Guess this puts Frankie Z in the smooth jazz category now, too! Lol.


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

I'm taking my son to see Branford Marsalis and his quartet in Markham next spring (he's also going to Roger Waters and then Dream Theater before then...) He's the bassist for his high school jazz band so I thought it might be a good night of music for him. The majority of my knowledge of Branford is from his fantastic sit-in's with the Grateful Dead - but I would expect it'll hold our attention.

I have to hand it to the Flato Theatre, they have a "student discount" which reduced his ticket from $75 down to $9.50. Sure makes rolling the dice on a show like this easier to take.


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