# Small tube amp



## fastrack (Mar 21, 2006)

Hi all. I'm looking for a small tube amp. I tried the avt20 from Marshall, i think that's what it's called  . I liked it. But i've heard they're not the most reliable. I've never owned a tube amp before, any thing else i should look at. I don't really want to pay much more then $500. I'm not planning on playing any gigs, it's just to jam in my basement evilGuitar: thx.


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## SnowBlind (Feb 26, 2006)

fastrack said:


> Hi all. I'm looking for a small tube amp. I tried the avt20 from Marshall, i think that's what it's called  . I liked it. But i've heard they're not the most reliable. I've never owned a tube amp before, any thing else i should look at. I don't really want to pay much more then $500. I'm not planning on playing any gigs, it's just to jam in my basement evilGuitar: thx.


I hear nothing but great reviews from the epiphone valve junior. Its a class A tube amp. 5W Its 180 dollars at L and M. Or you can get the head version for cheaper.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Valve Junior Head. Thye've resolved the noise issues that were evident in the combo Appears to be the bargin of the century. Get the speaker cab of your choice.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Mixed reviews on the Valve Junior..even after supposed "improvements". I've been using the recent Gibson GA-5 and both quality & sound are outstanding on this amp. I'm paring everything down to what's gig-able however so, unfortunately, the amp won't be with me much longer.  It's hard to argue against the simplicity and ruggedness of P-T-P hand-built amps though. As is typical, you should expect to get just what you pay for.


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## Tarl (Feb 4, 2006)

Take a look at the Crate V series. They have both a 5 and 15 watt model. They also make an 18 watt Palimino tube amp allthough I have never heard it in action. ( I swore I would never buy a Crate product until I heard these Vs...great sounds)

Tarl


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Used Traynor Bassmate, Guitarmate, or Bass Master. You never need to sell these.

TG


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## MaxWedge (Feb 24, 2006)

Did you buy the YBA-2A with 6V6's.


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## jem7vwh (Feb 2, 2006)

AVTs are not tube. Not to mention they suck. Any of the above sugestions would be good.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

MaxWedge said:


> Did you buy the YBA-2A with 6V6's.


Asked for pics and the seller never sent them or responded? :confused-smiley-010


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## MaxWedge (Feb 24, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> Asked for pics and the seller never sent them or responded? :confused-smiley-010


I saw you respond to the ad real quick. This is a terrific smallish amp. I understand most were not tubed as 6V6's and that's what makes that particular one desireable(rare?) I am fortunate to have one myself and couldn't be happier. The addition of a standby switch is a good idea, and It'll be getting that on the next trip to the shop.


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## hoser (Feb 2, 2006)

peavey classic 30.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...i recommend the fender pro junior.

that said, for the purpose you describe, i personally prefer solid state or digital.

to get the kind of response you need at low volume, tube amps have to be pushed to uncomfortable levels.

-david


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## Yerffej (Feb 7, 2006)

jem7vwh said:


> AVTs are not tube. Not to mention they suck. Any of the above sugestions would be good.


tube pre-amp. I have heard much worse, but they arent super spectacular


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

The Roland Cube amps have had much better reviews than other SS amps. I tried the Cube 30 a few times and was relatively impressed, but I needed $$ for car repairs and bought a Marshall SS instead - a moderate sized mistake. (though changing the speaker has improved it.) The Cube 60 seems to have it fans (see The Gear Page)

By the way, what do you consider a small tube amp


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...i recommend the fender pro junior.
> 
> that said, for the purpose you describe, i personally prefer solid state or digital.
> 
> ...



A 5 watt Pro Junior would be your ticket (still loud), if there was such a thing.


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## SCREEM (Feb 2, 2006)

hoser said:


> peavey classic 30.


+1

I love mine, at low volumes you can use the preamp channel to emulate clean channel breakup, its small, gigable and with some simple mods it can kick some ass evilGuitar:


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> A 5 watt Pro Junior would be your ticket (still loud), if there was such a thing.


...loud doesn't begin to cover it. the pro junior is a must-have amp, in my opinion, especially in the studio.

as a bedroom amp, it is severe overkill.

probably ideal for fastrack, though, for basement jamming.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

SCREEM said:


> +1
> I love mine, at low volumes you can use the preamp channel to emulate clean channel breakup, its small, gigable and with some simple mods it can kick some ass evilGuitar:



...this is an amp i plan to buy sometime this year, having compared it to most other 1-12 combos.


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## fastrack (Mar 21, 2006)

I tried a traynor, wow. Very nice. A bit too big for my wife's liking  I live in a small town and they don't have too many amps to try out  I'll be going to Kelowna soon, so i'll try that Pro Junior, i know they carry Fender there. Thx for all the info guys.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

The 6V6 versions are not really all that rare. Yes, they used EL 84s from about 1970-71 on, but the 6V6s were in for years.

Still never heard from the seller . . . ?





MaxWedge said:


> I saw you respond to the ad real quick. This is a terrific smallish amp. I understand most were not tubed as 6V6's and that's what makes that particular one desireable(rare?) I am fortunate to have one myself and couldn't be happier. The addition of a standby switch is a good idea, and It'll be getting that on the next trip to the shop.


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> Used Traynor Bassmate, Guitarmate, or Bass Master. You never need to sell these.
> 
> TG



True Dat. Plus, they`ll appreciate. 

CT.


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## ianderson (Apr 23, 2006)

You might want to try a Rivera disigned '80's Fender Champ II. 12 watts of full tube power, verb and a great overdrive.


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## DaveEEE (Feb 3, 2006)

I really like the Peavey Classic 30 (as well as the 50W and 100W). I would love to own one in combo form just for practicality....and the tone is great (although I'd probably swap the speaker out soon after).
I also briefly tried out one of the Crate V series (I think it was the 15W version) and thought it was very nice.
I have never tried the Pro Junior but that seems like a cool little amp...especially for the price.

Get out there and try all of these amps, thats the only way.

Dave


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## 55 Jr (May 3, 2006)

I'm at a point now where unless the amp is a really good deal (Epi Valve Jr Head) I'm not too interested in it.

A Super Champ sounds exactly like what you need....however they probably above your price point.

Another amp to consider is the Champ II

This is one of the the 80's Fender/Rivera series of amps.

Theres been a few on eBay lately.

Check this link:

http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/champ_II.html

These amps sound good at lower levels (they have a very good master volume).

They sound better turned up.

They are loud enough to gig with.

They sound great pushing an external cabinet.

They are hand wired.

They are only going up in value.

I had an early tweed Pro Jr. Great amp...but I would rather have the Champ II










Best regards,

Brian


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## gpower (May 12, 2006)

I have a Traynor YCV-20 and I love it. It's been retubed with a set recommended by Bob at Eurotubes and is about to get a Weber Blue Dog recommended by Ted Weber.

It was a good little amp to start with and improved tremendously with the retube. I can't wait to get the Weber and break it in.


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## lenbone (May 12, 2006)

I was at a yardsale last sat. and picked up a '76 Fender vibro champ for $45 ! hows that for a deal ?


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Check this thread out on the Fender Pro Junior:

http://forums.birdsandmoons.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26560


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

ianderson said:


> You might want to try a Rivera disigned '80's Fender Champ II. 12 watts of full tube power, verb and a great overdrive.


Not many of those around. Don't think I've ever even seen one that wasn't in a picture!!

CT.


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

*Older IS Better!*

Just some unasked-for advice from an old "geezer ranter"!

I make my living making, fixing and modding amps. All amps are the same during warranty but once the warranty is over you have to pay for service work. You might want to think about a few things when you first pull out your wallet.

Amp makers have always tried to keep their production costs as low as possible. Point-to-point wiring and hand-wired eyelet board methods gave way to printed circuit boards over 25 years ago. Printed circuit boards (pcbs) can be stuffed with parts and soldered by machines, which always work for less than people!

While this put more profit into the manufacturers' pockets it didn't always give more value to the player. Often, he got less!

There are extra things to worry about when designing a pcb for a tube amp. The biggest one is that tubes heat up and cool down, which can cause all those little solder connections from the parts to the copper traces on the board to expand and contract. Often by the time the amp is a few years past warranty that expansion/contraction stuff has flexed the connections enough that the solder breaks and you get a poor or intermittent connection. The amp develops funny problems that come and go, or makes scratchy noises at the slightest vibration.

Another problem is a designer who came fresh from community college knowing lots about transistors and little about tubes. He designs a board that is nice and cheap for the company buyer but the traces are too thin and if some part fails it burns out big chunks of those copper traces! This can be a time consuming bitch of a service job. In some cases you have to replace the entire board, which can be a big portion of the cost of the entire amp.

There are amps with good pcbs but there are a LOT of not so good ones! 

If the amp never has a failure it doesn't matter but if you have to pay the service charge out of your own pocket you may have to pay for more labour time hours to get it fixed. That great deal when you bought it may not look so good when you pony up youre first repair bill.

What if you want your amp modded for a more unique tone? With an older style amp wires and parts can be easily changed to a new configuration. With a pcb the wires are copper traces on the bottom of the pcb, literally "carved in stone". You can still do a few things but nothing like what can be done with an old Fender or Traynor from the late 60's. I can and have taken an old 100+ watt Traynor Bass head and grafted in a preamp like that from a Marshall JCM 800. I did the entire wiring portion of the job in an afternoon. Try that in a modern amp and it just wouldn't be cost-effective. It would be far cheaper to just buy another amp.

That's why a boutique amp industry has grown over the years. These guys do a small number of hand-wired amps with custom tone and features. You pay more up front for the extra labour of hand wiring instead of machines but you save FAR more in labour time if you have to pay for service or want some mods done!

Mind you, if you are addicted to all the new solid-state processed sound stuff you can't easily add such circuits into a vintage Fender or Marshall circuit using hand wiring. But if that's your scene you probably don't want a tube amp anyway. You're happy running your 200 watt "Sorta Tubey" head that weighs only 10 lbs including 4 10" neo-magnet speakers made in China.

I'm just saying that if you want a true tube head don't turn your nose up at some old Fender or Traynor. Or even a custom build from a boutique guy. I've found many old Traynors from $25-$100. Just before Christmas I picked up an old Bass Master for $50. It ran 60 watts from a pair of EL 34's. I gutted it out and wired it up like an old Marshall Plexi. I use it as a loaner 'cuz the player then rarely bugs me about how long the repair is taking. He's having too much fun with the loaner! Better yet, I can sell the loaner for $500 and still make a reasonable profit on my parts and time. Not meaning to make a shameless plug - my point is that there are lots of guys around the country that can do such things for you. 

I'm not at all slagging buying a brand new amp. Just ask around and find out if other guys have had to take the same amp in for repair and when they knocked on the repair shop door the tech turned white, slammed the door in their face and put up the "Closed" sign. Or worse yet, when he saw the type of amp he started to rub his hands together, cackle with glee and yell out to his family in the back : "Hot damn, Cindy Lou! We just got your university money!"

Like with most things in life, if you check things out before hand you may find you've got other options.

---Wild Bill


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## fastrack (Mar 21, 2006)

ianderson said:


> You might want to try a Rivera disigned '80's Fender Champ II. 12 watts of full tube power, verb and a great overdrive.


I've seen a few Vibro champ, anyone know anything about those.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I own a Traynor YGM-3 that I love volume/power wise....but it's a beast to carry around. 

I have a Princeton Reverb that I consider perfect in size and power. But they aren't that easy to come by. It too me forever to find one at a reasonable price.

The best deal I have come across is here though: http://www.littledawgamps.com . I just ordered a Champ clone from him for $399 US. I read about him on a bunch of Fender forums, and I know people who have bought his amps. I got a "Champster Special" which is a modded circuit he does that runs at 14 watts instead of the 5-6 of a normal Champ. He will basically mod the amps any way you want. You have ot pay for shipping and stuff, but still his prices are insanely low for a handbuilt, custom amp.

I 29 years old and have owned a few amps. But it didn't take me long to learn the lesson that Wild Bill mentioned. A lot of newer amps are almost designed to be disposable. Older amps are so easy to service with the point to point wiring, I have figured out many things myself. Plus I just have to take one look at the parts inside my Traynors to see the difference.


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## ianderson (Apr 23, 2006)

CocoTone said:


> Not many of those around. Don't think I've ever even seen one that wasn't in a picture!!
> 
> CT.


I picked mine up on eBay for $250.00 USD and seem to alway be available there, and I have so say, these thing have it all for not much money. The silly thing was six month later a saw one at a dealer in Cambridge Ont. (long gone now) for three bills CDN. Anyone who own one of these little monster know what a great piece they are!


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## ianderson (Apr 23, 2006)

fastrack said:


> I've seen a few Vibro champ, anyone know anything about those.


60's and early 70's Champs, Vibro Champs are great machines. For me I'd rather have some verb in the mix before I chased the vibrato feature though. Either way with a verb an you have great tone in a practice volume kit. While I don't know it this is true... I've heard Jimmy Page in the early days used Champs cranked to volume ten and recorded in the studio for that sound. They do sound good! From a tone and all-in-one perspective thats why I love the Riviera disigned Champ. All tube, the tone, verb and overdirve. If you can find one you'll never give it up!!


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## ianderson (Apr 23, 2006)

Wild Bill said:


> Just some unasked-for advice from an old "geezer ranter"!
> 
> Older is better
> 
> ---Wild Bill


Bill agreed! You can't beat well disigned point to poiint wired amps - big named or lesser named. It simply blowes away any new gear for the money...


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## ianderson (Apr 23, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> I have a Princeton Reverb that I consider perfect in size and power. But they aren't that easy to come by. It too me forever to find one at a reasonable price.
> .


Agreed, the quintessential amp to me is a 60's Princeton reverb amp. It’s good enough to gig with in a small venue. Put a Mic in it with a feed to the board and you have all the tone you will need in a bigger environment too!

The only modern amp that I would consider is a Kendrick.... awesome amps!!!


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

There are plenty of amp builders I like, but could never afford. Allen makes some amazing looking amps. I'd personally take one of their 'Sweet Spots" over my Princeton, but they cost $1400 US. My Princeton was less than half of that.

In my opinion the ideal lower wattage amp is the Traynor YGM-3 though. They sound incredible and are constructed amazing. But they designed the cabs way too big and bulky for them. I know it contributes to the sound, but if it was being miked it wouldn't matter anyway. They weigh almost 50 lbs, and the deimensions are huge for a 25 watt amp. I often think about getting a new cab custom built for mine. Then it would be the perfect amp.


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> There are plenty of amp builders I like, but could never afford. Allen makes some amazing looking amps. I'd personally take one of their 'Sweet Spots" over my Princeton, but they cost $1400 US. My Princeton was less than half of that.
> 
> In my opinion the ideal lower wattage amp is the Traynor YGM-3 though. They sound incredible and are constructed amazing. But they designed the cabs way too big and bulky for them. I know it contributes to the sound, but if it was being miked it wouldn't matter anyway. They weigh almost 50 lbs, and the deimensions are huge for a 25 watt amp. I often think about getting a new cab custom built for mine. Then it would be the perfect amp.


I'd like one in a head version.

CT.


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## fastrack (Mar 21, 2006)

Well i got my amp :rockon2: I ended up getting a no so small amp  I got a fender 65 Deluxe Reverb. I tried a few of them, and that's the one that did it for me. Money wasn't really a issue, so i got the one that sounded the best for me. Thx guys for ur input.


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

*"Pay me now or pay more later..."*



David St Hubbins said:


> What about a Marshall JCM2000 DSL401? Not the smallest of amps but might do the trick. I have had one for several years, very powerful and versatile. price is not too bad, if you can find one used even better.


Not a bad sounding amp, if you like your tone more "Yngwie". 
As I said before, the downside is that there is more transistor stuff inside around the tubes and the circuit board is very crowded. This means that you'll pay for longer repair times and serious mods may be not just a big pain in the ass but all but impossible.

Still, if nothing ever goes wrng...geos rwggon..gos rng...


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

ianderson said:


> Agreed, the quintessential amp to me is a 60's Princeton reverb amp.


...so many players say that, it has me wondering why fender has never offered a reissue.

-dh


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Well they have a new "Princeton" out, but it's definitely far from a reissue. It's the "Princeton Recording Amp" and while it's all tube it have a bunch of effects built into it and stuff. B ut it weighs something like 50 lbs as well which is pretty much the opposite of the things that make a Princeton Reverb so great. it also has a $1000 US price tag. You can still get late 60's SF Princeton Reverbs (same circuit as the BF) for around $600 US with some shopping. I got my 68' for $600.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> Well they have a new "Princeton" out, but it's definitely far from a reissue. It's the "Princeton Recording Amp" and while it's all tube it have a bunch of effects built into it and stuff. B ut it weighs something like 50 lbs as well which is pretty much the opposite of the things that make a Princeton Reverb so great. it also has a $1000 US price tag. You can still get late 60's SF Princeton Reverbs (same circuit as the BF) for around $600 US with some shopping. I got my 68' for $600.


...it wasn't that long ago that you could walk into 12th fret or songbird and pick up a vintage princeton reverb for $400-$500.

had i but known...

:frown: 

-dh


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> Used Traynor Bassmate, Guitarmate, or Bass Master. You never need to sell these.
> 
> TG



Double Ditto!!! Just bought my third Guitarmate!!

CT.


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

I've got a Fender Super Champ that is great, a Garnet Gnome (super amp) and a really fine Vagabond 7 watt tube amp (made by garnet and sold by Eatons), and it snarls with some mean blues. I've also got a Traynor YBA-2 that is cool.

I've been thinking about picking up a SS small practice amp, simply because I don't have one. I'm just not sure which one to go with.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Ripper, I have a Vox Pathfinder that is great. They don't make them anymore, but you can pick them up for under $100 used. I got mine for $80. Mine is a 15r and it has reverb and tremolo in it. They are basically a SS version of an AC15, and they sound REALLY good. I have even used it for the occasional jam run into an extension speaker. Anytime anyone is looking for a SS amp, I have no hesitation recommending them.


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

Torndownunit, you are actually the second person to recommend that amp to me. I'm going to have to give it a look for sure. What kind of distortion/gain is it capable of?? I know where there is a Vox AD15VT that a guy wants to get rid of. Maybe I should check it out.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Ripper if you want a few decent effects and amp models in your practice and I don't think you can beat a VOX AD amp or a Roland cube. And if you want 'hi-gain' settings as well, the AD amps have that.

In my case I like things a little more simple, and the Pathfinder is basically made to be a SS version of an Vox AC15. And it does a very good job at that. It's gain sounds similar to the highest gain you would get on a tube Vox. And since it's SS and has a master volume, you can get gain at pretty much any volume.

When they discontinued these, they brought out the VR series which have the same tube hybrid stuff going on as the AD amps. But IMO the Pathfinders are still a much better sounding amp. You can find nice deals on the VR amps used as well though.


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

I am going to have to give one of those pathfinders a try. It sound right along with what I want. I'd like something that I can use to go to impromptu jams with and not need to take my pedals etc. It doesn't have to be high gain and I don't need anything fancy (mostly just blues jams)


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Ripper said:


> I've got a Fender Super Champ that is great, a Garnet Gnome (super amp) and a really fine Vagabond 7 watt tube amp (made by garnet and sold by Eatons), and it snarls with some mean blues. I've also got a Traynor YBA-2 that is cool.
> 
> I've been thinking about picking up a SS small practice amp, simply because I don't have one. I'm just not sure which one to go with.



That's quite a collection of good small tube amps you have there. As for SS amps - don't get a marshall. Tech 21 or Roland cube have received good review. I've also heard they are as different from each other as a Marshall 18 watter and a Deluxe Reverb.


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

Yeah, I've got a few amps. Got my first tube amp in 1976. When I got most of those amps, they sure weren't the sought after items of today. I am a self professed tube snob. All my bigger amps, except for the bass amps are tube.

I've heard good things about both the Tech 21 and Roland. There is a Roland dealer near me, but no one close that sells tech 21. I have fixed enough of the SS marshalls to know they aren't for me. I guess I need to head into the bright lights and do some testing to see what turns my crank.


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

The Peavey Classic 30 and then the Calssic 50 get my vote. Used they are inexpensive. Tonally they are very cool... they represent exceptional value.

Khingpynn


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Ripper said:


> Yeah, I've got a few amps. Got my first tube amp in 1976. When I got most of those amps, they sure weren't the sought after items of today. I am a self professed tube snob. All my bigger amps, except for the bass amps are tube.
> 
> I've heard good things about both the Tech 21 and Roland. There is a Roland dealer near me, but no one close that sells tech 21. I have fixed enough of the SS marshalls to know they aren't for me. I guess I need to head into the bright lights and do some testing to see what turns my crank.


Good thing is, all those amps are pretty cheap. You have a lot to choose from. I think the Vox AD amps are nice too, and there are a lot of people who even choose to gig with them now.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Ripper said:


> I am going to have to give one of those pathfinders a try. It sound right along with what I want. I'd like something that I can use to go to impromptu jams with and not need to take my pedals etc. It doesn't have to be high gain and I don't need anything fancy (mostly just blues jams)


...i have a pathfinder 15r as well. great little amp, and pretty loud - i even used it at a gig one time, although i did have to mike it. it might be loud enough for jams, depending on the drummer.

-dh


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