# Martin D-28 volume



## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

I dont know if its me or what but i find that my D-28 does not project as much volume as my little Martin OM16 when played acoustically. I dont get it. Anyone can offer some info on this or am i dreaming?
Thanks


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Hi Marc,

Do you sense this in one particular room or is it everywhere?

I think you know where I'm going with this. It might be a resonant frequency with the OM that is amplified / enhanced by the acoustics in the room.

The D28 _should _be louder I would think.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

You might not be dreaming. I have a parlour that is punchier than my dread, though the dread is more balanced. The parlour has a cedar top, which tends to be lighter than spruce and therefore more responsive. Lots of things can affect apparent volume - wood types and bracing systems would be the two differences I would investigate first.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Have you got at least 13's on the D-28? If, for example you have 12's on both its possible that the top on the D-28 isn't being driven enough. 
For me I had a problem with an HD-28V I used to own. It was a beautiful lush tone but easily lost in a jam even with just one other guitar. After getting my D-28 authentic I never have a volume problem now.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Milkman said:


> Hi Marc,
> 
> Do you sense this in one particular room or is it everywhere?
> 
> ...


Its in the same room that i usually play in Mike. You might be on to something though. I started noticing this when a friend of mine was playing the D28 and somehow the OM was louder. ?


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

bw66 said:


> You might not be dreaming. I have a parlour that is punchier than my dread, though the dread is more balanced. The parlour has a cedar top, which tends to be lighter than spruce and therefore more responsive. Lots of things can affect apparent volume - wood types and bracing systems would be the two differences I would investigate first.


Much appreciate the info. Will have a closer look,


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> Have you got at least 13's on the D-28? If, for example you have 12's on both its possible that the top on the D-28 isn't being driven enough.
> For me I had a problem with an HD-28V I used to own. It was a beautiful lush tone but easily lost in a jam even with just one other guitar. After getting my D-28 authentic I never have a volume problem now.


I do have 12's on it and thats what Martin recommends. Will ask around about the 13's . I am always afraid of putting to much stress on the body with heavier strings but get what your saying. Thanks


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

marcos said:


> I do have 12's on it and thats what Martin recommends. Will ask around about the 13's . I am always afraid of putting to much stress on the body with heavier strings but get what your saying. Thanks


Martin does not recommend 12's on a D-28 or likely any of their dreadnoughts. Especially if its a modern standard braced D-28. Those are built pretty heavy. I have 2 martin dreadnoughts a D-28 authentic 1941 and a D-18 authentic 1939 and they are both the lightest built guitars that Martin does. Just like they did prewar. I string nothing but 13's on them.
Spend some time over at the Martin forum and you'll see that 90% of the players string with 13's on their dreads. However there are some who do prefer 12's for the playability. You will get somewhat less volume, although in my opinion not a lot less. I've tried 12's but for me they feel too loose. If you aren't in a jam or competing with another guitar thats drowning you out then I wouldn't worry about it. Enjoy it with 12's if thats what you like.

The D-28's generally come from the factory strung with Martin Lifespans medium (13-56)






D-28 | Standard Series | Martin Guitar


Shop D-28 and other Martin Guitar apparel, accessories, and guitar straps!




www.martinguitar.com


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

All of my Martin dreads came with 13s on them. And they’re actually pretty easy to play as long as you don’t think you’re going to do a full step band on the G string. I tried 12s once and took them off pretty much right away because the loss of volume and thump was quite noticeable to me. That said though I have an HD 35 which is loud but does not project as well as the D 18 and the HD 28V. String type comes into it as well; I found that the 28V is a bit muddy with ph/brz so 80/20s for that one cleans it up. The 2012 D18 is a loud SOB with ph/brz strings. I can see how a smaller body guitar might cut better in some circumstances and maybe appear louder.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> Martin does not recommend 12's on a D-28 or likely any of their dreadnoughts. Especially if its a modern standard braced D-28. Those are built pretty heavy. I have 2 martin dreadnoughts a D-28 authentic 1941 and a D-18 authentic 1939 and they are both the lightest built guitars that Martin does. Just like they did prewar. I string nothing but 13's on them.
> Spend some time over at the Martin forum and you'll see that 90% of the players string with 13's on their dreads. However there are some who do prefer 12's for the playability. You will get somewhat less volume, although in my opinion not a lot less. I've tried 12's but for me they feel too loose. If you aren't in a jam or competing with another guitar thats drowning you out then I wouldn't worry about it. Enjoy it with 12's if thats what you like.
> 
> The D-28's generally come from the factory strung with Martin Lifespans medium (13-56)
> ...


Interresting. Thanks. I was missinformed i guess


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Wardo said:


> All of my Martin dreads came with 13s on them. And they’re actually pretty easy to play as long as you don’t think you’re going to do a full step band on the G string. I tried 12s once and took them off pretty much right away because the loss of volume and thump was quite noticeable to me. That said though I have an HD 35 which is loud but does not project as well as the D 18 and the HD 28V. String type comes into it as well; I found that the 28V is a bit muddy with ph/brz so 80/20s for that one cleans it up. The 2012 D18 is a loud SOB with ph/brz strings. I can see how a smaller body guitar might cut better in some circumstances and maybe appear louder.


Also very interresting Wardo. Thanks. All good info and i can start experimenting on strings and see what happens


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## NashvilleDeluxe (Feb 7, 2018)

"Loud" could be "mid-forward" in this case. The big Martins are definitely mid-scooped, especially the scalloped-braced ones, like my HD 28. Taylors tend to be more mid-forward, generally speaking. So, not to be a contrarian, but many "mature" dreadnoughts (5+ years old) that have aged well are more balanced with 12's than 13's. I have very few clients putting 13's on a resonant Dread these days. Sometimes the "driving the top" thing is because the saddle has been lowered significantly, or a guitar that hasn't had many hours of playing on it. Case in point, my HD 28 is all boom when I put 13's on. And to the comment above about putting "at least 13's" on it...do NOT go heavier than 13's. Some Martins even have a stamp in the back centre strips to avoid Darwinism.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Have you got a DB meter? Sometimes we might perceive a punchier guitar (like an OM) as louder than a D-28, which is fairly scooped-sounding. But a D-28 should have plenty of power and punch, regardless of whether it's got 12s or 13s on it. In a smaller space, the difference might not be as notable in terms of volume, so the punchier guitar might win.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

NashvilleDeluxe said:


> "Loud" could be "mid-forward" in this case. The big Martins are definitely mid-scooped, especially the scalloped-braced ones, like my HD 28. Taylors tend to be more mid-forward, generally speaking. So, not to be a contrarian, but many "mature" dreadnoughts (5+ years old) that have aged well are more balanced with 12's than 13's. I have very few clients putting 13's on a resonant Dread these days. Sometimes the "driving the top" thing is because the saddle has been lowered significantly, or a guitar that hasn't had many hours of playing on it. Case in point, my HD 28 is all boom when I put 13's on. And to the comment above about putting "at least 13's" on it...do NOT go heavier than 13's. Some Martins even have a stamp in the back centre strips to avoid Darwinism.
> View attachment 397002


Great info also. Thank you


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

jdto said:


> Have you got a DB meter? Sometimes we might perceive a punchier guitar (like an OM) as louder than a D-28, which is fairly scooped-sounding. But a D-28 should have plenty of power and punch, regardless of whether it's got 12s or 13s on it. In a smaller space, the difference might not be as notable in terms of volume, so the punchier guitar might win.


Good idea. I dont have a meter but figure that i should be able to get one on my cel. phone


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

The Martin D28; you get out of them what you put into them.

They are tough guitars. made to last and withstand the heaviest of pickers. If you don't move those strings, you wont move the wood. 
It's funny, when I get one in for a top crack, they are actually hard to repair because of the solid build on them. You try to move the wood to work glue into the crack and they barely budge. 

Compare a guitar like that to a lightly built finger-style guitar and you will get a lot more movement with less effort from it. But, the D28 will take over easily when the playing gets more aggressive and a flatpick is involved. 

I have a D28 and a little 1964 Epiphone Cortez. The Cortez is my favourite for my style of playing. It's much more pronounced, nuanced and vocal for finger-style playing. If I want to strum something to get a big full wash of acoustic guitar, the Martin wins easily.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

zztomato said:


> The Martin D28; you get out of them what you put into them.
> 
> They are tough guitars. made to last and withstand the heaviest of pickers. If you don't move those strings, you wont move the wood.
> It's funny, when I get one in for a top crack, they are actually hard to repair because of the solid build on them. You try to move the wood to work glue into the crack and they barely budge.
> ...


Thanks Jerome. I saw a video a few weeks ago comparing the HD28 to a normal D28 and found the HD had more overall volume, well anyways on the video. I am not a hard player and use very soft pics (Dunlop 60-80 mm) but use the same on the small OM 16 that you did a tune-up last year on. Hmmm, maybe it needs some of your majic work to be done on it lol. Merci.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

marcos said:


> Good idea. I dont have a meter but figure that i should be able to get one on my cel. phone


I have an app called Decibel X on my iPhone that gets the job done alright.


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## diyfabtone (Mar 9, 2016)

My 76' D-28 doesn't sound that loud to me as I play, especially when jamming with others. But when others play it and I stand more than 10 feet away it projects incredibly well. The guitar's natural 'EQ' makes it seem less loud than others when you play?


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

jdto said:


> I have an app called Decibel X on my iPhone that gets the job done alright.


I have that one too. I upgraded to "Pro" because I liked it, but now I see that the Pro version is $40 and they have various subscription packages that all cost more than I paid for my lifetime upgrade. I'm sure that the trial version would get the job done.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

bw66 said:


> I have that one too. I upgraded to "Pro" because I liked it, but now I see that the Pro version is $40 and they have various subscription packages that all cost more than I paid for my lifetime upgrade. I'm sure that the trial version would get the job done.


If memory serves, I did the same several years back. But yeah, if they have changed to subscriptions and stuff, that's a bit much.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

diyfabtone said:


> My 76' D-28 doesn't sound that loud to me as I play, especially when jamming with others. But when others play it and I stand more than 10 feet away it projects incredibly well. The guitar's natural 'EQ' makes it seem less loud than others when you play?


When my buddy plays it, its not loud at all but he has a different attack on the acoustic than i have.Thanks


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

marcos said:


> Thanks Jerome. I saw a video a few weeks ago comparing the HD28 to a normal D28 and found the HD had more overall volume, well anyways on the video. I am not a hard player and use very soft pics (Dunlop 60-80 mm) but use the same on the small OM 16 that you did a tune-up last year on. Hmmm, maybe it needs some of your majic work to be done on it lol. Merci.


The HD28 should be more responsive and lighter due to the scalloped bracing. Oddly though, I just had an HD28 in the shop for a setup and my D28 standard had more volume and generally a better sound- subjective as that is. Even within the same model range there can be significant differences between guitars. I use a set of 12-56 on mine. I kind of like the firm bass and lighter top end. Feel free to bring it by for a setup- you never know, could help.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

zztomato said:


> The HD28 should be more responsive and lighter due to the scalloped bracing. Oddly though, I just had an HD28 in the shop for a setup and my D28 standard had more volume and generally a better sound- subjective as that is. Even within the same model range there can be significant differences between guitars. I use a set of 12-56 on mine. I kind of like the firm bass and lighter top end. Feel free to bring it by for a setup- you never know, could help.


You got it buddy. Merci


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## Tom T (May 3, 2016)

Like others have said your OM16 might seem louder because it is punchier, or, you might have a quiet D-28 which is common too. The volume of the D-28 will depend on the build, straight, scalloped or tapered bracing, forward or rear shifted bracing etc, there are a lot of factors. 70’s D-28’s with the large rosewood bridgeplates tend to be on the mellower side. As far as strings go, 13’s are most common, certainly for Bluegrass but I’ve only played 12’s on my Martin dreads for many years and have perceived no real difference in volume.
Sounds like you have a nice and loud OM 16 though!


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Tom T said:


> Like others have said your OM16 might seem louder because it is punchier, or, you might have a quiet D-28 which is common too. The volume of the D-28 will depend on the build, straight, scalloped or tapered bracing, forward or rear shifted bracing etc, there are a lot of factors. 70’s D-28’s with the large rosewood bridgeplates tend to be on the mellower side. As far as strings go, 13’s are most common, certainly for Bluegrass but I’ve only played 12’s on my Martin dreads for many years and have perceived no real difference in volume.
> Sounds like you have a nice and loud OM 16 though!


Interresting about the bracing. Much appreciated.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

If you have an Apple phone, NIOSH makes a good meter app.





NIOSH Sound Level Meter App | NIOSH | CDC


The NIOSH Sound Level Meter app combines the best features of professional sound levels meters and noise dosimeters into a simple, easy-to-use package




www.cdc.gov


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

My advice - go to the .13's, which is what a 28 should have. After that, try getting someone else to play both of these guitars and stand in front of them. D28's don't just _*have*_ volume - they radiate volume more than most acoustics I've played. You'd be surprised the difference you'll hear when you're not sitting on top of it. Also, watch where your strumming hand sits - D28's have a pretty high quality top spruce, and you can but a lot of resonance out from simply having your hand contacting it - cheaper woods and laminates seem to be less impacted by this and they throw out a very focused frequency, which can be mistaken for volume when it's in your hands.


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

I wonder if it's a bit like speakers and bass response

If you play with the same intensity on both more of the vibration energy of the strings goes into bass response on the bigger bodied instrument which will sound less loud in the room 

the smaller instrument has more of its energy focused in mid and high frequencies which don't take as much oomph to produce at a similar perceived loudness

a small bodied guitar is easier to mic than a dred - less boomy and more detailed - and i might be reverse engineering a BS explanation outta my ear but my assumption has always been that the big instrument produces more sound that usually gets EQ'd out of the mix as far as what seems like a desirable recorded or amplified acoustic guitar tone these days

j


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## gretsch4me (Jun 2, 2018)

Not sure if the OP has had any success yet. I can relate to the D-28 volume issue though, as I always thought my '83 D-28 wasn't playing to it's full potential. It is now and this is what I discovered. 

First, some background on my '83 D-28. It was an absolute junker when I got it super cheap four years ago now. Sunken top, right hand converted to left and back, rosewood bridge, top and back cracks, in desperate need of a neck reset and some more. I had Dennis Kwasnycia in Chatham do a total refinish on it. Total cost was cheaper than buying a new D-28 (and quite frankly the new one I played in L&M Woodstock didn't sound that great either). Anyway, six months later and with fingers crossed I picked up the '83 from Dennis. I can't praise his skills enough, the old '83 was transformed...better than new.

When I got it back I knew it was rather stiff and needed to be played a lot in order for it to get that volume and tone. So this is what I discovered:

1. I've had most of the big brand strings on it in 12's (big nope) and 13's. I've settled on, or rather my D-28 settled on EB Aluminum Bronze 13's as THE best sounding string for tone and volume hands down.

2. For whatever reason, it absolutely resonates the most when the RH% is between 37% and 47%. I know, not really controllable, but too much RH% and the D-28 sounds like it was stuffed with socks.

3. After 40 years of fingerstyle, I have recently discovered that the right pick contributes tremendously to volume and tone. I'm a cheap bastard, so the most expensive pick I'll spring for is a 3-pack of Primetone Jazz III XL 1.4mm at over $10. HUGE difference compared to a regular nylon Jazz III 1.4mm. 

I should point out that I acquired the guitar and subsequent work done as my reward for surviving a heart attack at the time and enduring the nightmare of a quad bypass, before Dennis finished it. So, to the people who poo-poo refins and say how much value is lost in the guitar, or it lost its mojo...I could not care less about any of that. It is my cold dead hands guitar.

Bottom line, between the strings and pick, my D-28 isn't just loud, it is super frickin' LOUD! But also very controllable depending on how light-handed your pick attack is. The overall tone? Miles better than my friends '68 D-28 with brazalian rosewood. 

Anyway, this was my quest and I wish the OP luck with his. It is a journey.










Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk


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## Eric Reesor (Jan 26, 2020)

D28s by and large produce more grunt below 220Hertz but can be noticeably weaker above 440 especially when new.

Most full jumbo designs do the same thing because of the increased mass of the top. However a well aged spruce jumbo can have a more full balanced and rich set of overtones that enhance the bass. The best way to test the character of any guitar is to play a note on the bass strings and then stop it and listen carefully to the sympathetic overtones created by that single note. You will notice that F on the 6th string first fret will excite a dissonant set of overtones F# slightly less, G third fret will excite the third sting one octave higher and the upper first partial D on the Fourth string. A flat will again become more dissonant in character and of course A at the fifth fret 6 string will bring up a warmer balanced set of sympathetic harmonics on a guitar that is well intoned and well built. Every guitar you pick up will sound different doing this test but the best guitars seem to avoid wolf tones but still cause harmonic overtones that create the richness of sound that comes from a good guitar.

There are studies on this subject on the classical guitar and many luthiers tune their instruments while unfinished or partially finished with this method and chromatically go through the entire register of the guitar to see if there are any dead spots in the registers.

Factory guitars like Martins are formula guitars designed to achieve a reasonably repeatable sound quality. But like all factory guitars every once and a while one just jumps off the rack and outshines the other 2 to 3 hundred built in that production cycle. 

My experience over the years is that aged spruce if well cared for and played will sweeten up in the upper register and develop more grunt in the lower register. The aging of spruce to enhance vibrational character is a difficult change to quantify. But most people find well played and aged D28s have a richer if not louder sound than new ones.

I have seen and played on 28s from the early 70's with wide grain Sitka tops that when played in, sound spectacular but the original owners hated them because the sound seemed muted when the guitar came from the factory. Some people called them Martin's worst guitars. How wrong they have been proven to be on that account.

Tighter grain wood does not mean a better sounding instrument unless the spruce is too soft and wimpy then the spruce is best suited for lamination purposes. The old original laminated Yamaha FG 180 dreads can sound great if they have been played for years. So there are many factors involved in getting the most out of tone woods.

Some of the best sounding jumbos I have heard are actually small jumbos with an expanded OM body design and especially one custom build by Laskin to that design. Too bad it had too much bling bling custom inlay on it, consequently it looked like a pimped up Larrivee clone IMO.


Another technique to check out the intonation, balance and power of a guitar is to play a diatonic scale at the 9th position and check the intonation relationship to the harmonics at the twelfth.


> _For example play the scale; e harmonic 12th fourth finger left hand, d second finger first string 10th fret, c# 9th fret first finger, b fourth finger harmonic twelfth fret second string, a second finger 10th fret second string, g third string twelfth fret harmonic, f# third finger third string 11th fret, e first finger 9th fret third string and finally d forth finger harmonic at the twelfth fret. _


This test will sound out of tune on any guitar but on the very best ones the character of the guitar will make the descending diatonic Dorian scale sound pleasant and surprisingly musical if you play it with accentuations and musical commitment. The very best guitars I have played pass muster with this test because the intonation though not perfect is as balanced as is possible.

I have played D28s that sounded like dogs with this simple test but then again there have been ones that you just want to keep on playing and playing until Duende takes you to another level. So yes D28s can be magical but they can also be guitars that will take years of playing to develop rarely are they complete dogs.

PS: The post above this one is by @gretsch4me is spot on. The ridiculous dictum that refinishing a Martin will kill the sound is absolute crap. As stated it can give it a new lease on life to factory guitars if done right by a great luthier! A Martin D28 is not a freaking Stradivarius and refinishing one will help preserve it if the finish is too damaged especially if the wood is in danger of damage from too much Willy Nelson willy hole disease. 

Good luthiers can patch holes and most old violins have Dutchman type or crack sliver repairs that restore top and structural stability. As well as centuries of redone varnish or other sophisticated old school re polish work along with upgrades to the bass bar to take steel strings on instruments that were originally designed to take much lower tension stringing. 
So the anti refinish crowd during a restoration is full of bull and hype.


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## butterscotchmusic (11 mo ago)

marcos said:


> Also very interresting Wardo. Thanks. All good info and i can start experimenting on strings and see what happens


My experience has always been to put 13s on Martins and lights on Gibsons. Not sure why. Yes, Martins come with Medium strings, but not sure it's the best decision. I've heard people rave about lights on Martins. String tension is a big part as well.


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