# How the vaccines work?



## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

I think this is a fairly unbiased video on the main vaccine options and some pros/cons. Im quite interested in the upcoming novovax.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I agree good video. I believe in maintaining health for protection. I've always been focused on health but really took it up a notch 6 months ago with healthy eating, good sleep patterns. Actually my sleep patterns have been great since I stopped gigging a couple years ago.
I was exposed to the covid recently. I have no idea how I didn't get it. My 19 year old grand daughter came over to my house for dinner a week and a half ago. Was there all night. She brought a couple dishes of food that we shared. I kissed and hugged her when she left. And really wasn't careful the whole evening about being close. She started to feel off that night and the next day she was sick and got a test that resulted in positive. It was 4 days before she told me (when she got her test results) I went on day 6 after contact got a test and it came back negative. My grand daughter is still in bed. Really hit her hard. All I can say is either, this virus isn't as contagious as they say, or my healthy life style helped or I just got lucky. I guess if I just got lucky it, for whatever reason wasn't that infectious.


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## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

I thought this was an excellent explanation on the efficacy numbers:


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I watched half of the first one and couldn't take much more. What I find troublesome about his video is that it is a purely molecular biology perspective, with no attention to public health or contagion spread. That's not irrelevant, but it is far from complete, as a strategy. One's own "natural immunities", real or imagined, are moot_ if the spread of the disease in the general population has been halted_. Me, I have no idea whatsoever if I have "natural immunities" to smallpox or leprosy, neither do I care, because I know neither disease is _running rampant_ in my community. Prevalence and incidence counts for as much, and occasionally more than, vaccines. Moreover, as much as he almost brags about his own "natural immunities", how does he actually *know* that this exists? More importantly, how would any of the people watching the video know that they have some sort of "natural immunity"?

As for early reports about people being more susceptible to variants after a 2nd dose, one MUST factor in better evidence of health behaviours. Chances are pretty good that people who had NOT been vaccinated yet were still taking precautions, and those vaccinated began "living life normally" (i.e., perhaps NOT taking precautions); potentially before they had actually developed immunity in response to vaccination (immune systems don't all share the same clock). To be fair, we don't _know_ that this is what happened, but we also don't know that it didn't. Viruses don't Uber over to your place, and come in to the house like a cat. Their spread depends on *human behaviour*, and few of the studies that don't involve direct human challenges in controlled conditions are able to reliably account for that. This is why VERY large numbers of volunteers are required for efficacy studies.

The Vox video was much better in my view, and took a big-picture public health perspective. It does a nice job of contrasting the conditions under which the different vaccines were tested, clearly demonstrating that if one's dependent measure is number infected in this vs that condition, the background infection rate in the general populace, at the time of measurement, matters VERY much. The only quarrel I would have with it is the absence of the word "estimate". (Honestly, sometimes getting an economist or an epidemiologist to use the word "estimate", whether as a noun or a verb, is like pulling an impacted rear molar out of them.) What one arrives at is an *estimate* of the_ probability_ of getting infected. I'm confident, as are regulatory bodies, that it's in the ballpark of reality, but as the video also makes clear, people can read far too much into these numerical estimates. My own graduate training made a point of drawing one's attention to potential "time-of-measurement" confounds (i.e., if I had measured X at a different point in history, would I have observed the same result? Is what I think I'm seeing really just something going on in the background everywhere, or a result of what I *think* is doing the causing?) I thought the Vox video also did a nice job of asking, and illustrating, what the spectrum of vaccination outcomes is that may truly matter. As keeps being noted on this forum, there is a whole lot of territory between died-on-a-ventilator-in-the-ICU and nah-never-got-even-the-least-bit-sick.


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

mhammer said:


> I watched half of the first one and couldn't take much more. What I find troublesome about his video is that it is a purely molecular biology perspective, with no attention to public health or contagion spread. That's not irrelevant, but it is far from complete, as a strategy. One's own "natural immunities", real or imagined, are moot_ if the spread of the disease in the general population has been halted_. Me, I have no idea whatsoever if I have "natural immunities" to smallpox or leprosy, neither do I care, because I know neither disease is _running rampant_ in my community. Prevalence and incidence counts for as much, and occasionally more than, vaccines. Moreover, as much as he almost brags about his own "natural immunities", how does he actually *know* that this exists? More importantly, how would any of the people watching the video know that they have some sort of "natural immunity"?
> 
> As for early reports about people being more susceptible to variants after a 2nd dose, one MUST factor in better evidence of health behaviours. Chances are pretty good that people who had NOT been vaccinated yet were still taking precautions, and those vaccinated began "living life normally" (i.e., perhaps NOT taking precautions); potentially before they had actually developed immunity in response to vaccination (immune systems don't all share the same clock). To be fair, we don't _know_ that this is what happened, but we also don't know that it didn't. Viruses don't Uber over to your place, and come in to the house like a cat. Their spread depends on *human behaviour*, and few of the studies that don't involve direct human challenges in controlled conditions are able to reliably account for that. This is why VERY large numbers of volunteers are required for efficacy studies.
> 
> The Vox video was much better in my view, and took a big-picture public health perspective. It does a nice job of contrasting the conditions under which the different vaccines were tested, clearly demonstrating that if one's dependent measure is number infected in this vs that condition, the background infection rate in the general populace, at the time of measurement, matters VERY much. The only quarrel I would have with it is the absence of the word "estimate". (Honestly, sometimes getting an economist or an epidemiologist to use the word "estimate", whether as a noun or a verb, is like pulling an impacted rear molar out of them.) What one arrives at is an *estimate* of the_ probability_ of getting infected. I'm confident, as are regulatory bodies, that it's in the ballpark of reality, but as the video also makes clear, people can read far too much into these numerical estimates. My own graduate training made a point of drawing one's attention to potential "time-of-measurement" confounds (i.e., if I had measured X at a different point in history, would I have observed the same result? Is what I think I'm seeing really just something going on in the background everywhere, or a result of what I *think* is doing the causing?) I thought the Vox video also did a nice job of asking, and illustrating, what the spectrum of vaccination outcomes is that may truly matter. As keeps being noted on this forum, there is a whole lot of territory between died-on-a-ventilator-in-the-ICU and nah-never-got-even-the-least-bit-sick.


*"how does he actually know that this exists? More importantly, how would any of the people watching the video know that they have some sort of "natural immunity"?"*
He has had his antibodies checked (Not that that's an absolute reliability). And by that logic, how do you know that you have immunity from the vaccine? Many people are not healthy to form a robust immune response to the vaccine. You really don't. No one does follow up testing. We all just hope for the best.

*As for early reports about people being more susceptible to variants after a 2nd dose, one MUST factor in better evidence of health behaviours. Chances are pretty good that people who had NOT been vaccinated yet were still taking precautions, and those vaccinated began "living life normally" (i.e., perhaps NOT taking precautions);*
Very true. But that still doesn't discount the finding. Yes, it's very early...as are these vaccines in general. But this is also Israel. They have BY FAR had the most robust vaccine program. As of Feb. 23, Israel had given at least one dose of COVID-19 vaccine to more than 70 per cent of its adult population, And they have an estimate of above 70% mask compliance. If this was Florida, Yeah for sure.

I do see what you are saying, but I still feel that both the video and early findings on variants are relevant. If the vaccine is ineffective on a variant that differs from the original by a minuscule amount, I'll still stick by good old natural immunity from infection. Data now shows there is also cross immunity between the 7 main corona viruses including SARS-COV2.








Cross-immunity between respiratory coronaviruses may limit COVID-19 fatalities - PubMed


Of the seven coronaviruses associated with disease in humans, SARS-CoV, MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2 cause considerable mortality but also share significant sequence homology, and potentially antigenic epitopes capable of inducing an immune response. The degree of similarity is such that perhaps...




pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

guitarman2 said:


> I agree good video. I believe in maintaining health for protection. I've always been focused on health but really took it up a notch 6 months ago with healthy eating, good sleep patterns. Actually my sleep patterns have been great since I stopped gigging a couple years ago.
> I was exposed to the covid recently. I have no idea how I didn't get it. My 19 year old grand daughter came over to my house for dinner a week and a half ago. Was there all night. She brought a couple dishes of food that we shared. I kissed and hugged her when she left. And really wasn't careful the whole evening about being close. She started to feel off that night and the next day she was sick and got a test that resulted in positive. It was 4 days before she told me (when she got her test results) I went on day 6 after contact got a test and it came back negative. My grand daughter is still in bed. Really hit her hard. All I can say is either, this virus isn't as contagious as they say, or my healthy life style helped or I just got lucky. I guess if I just got lucky it, for whatever reason wasn't that infectious.


Good for you! No matter what the cause is, keep looking after yourself and you will fair far better regardless.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

RJP110 said:


> And by that logic, how do you know that you have immunity from the vaccine? Many people are not healthy to form a robust immune response to the vaccine. You really don't. No one does follow ups testing. We all just hope for the best.


Correct. My concern is that too few people _understand_ vaccination and the development of immunity, and public immunization programs - as you rightly note - will not check for actual immune response in individuals. Immunization programs look for the _population-wide_ result. I.E., I don't need to know what your _particular_ immune response is, or how far along it is progressing; what I need to know is the aggregate case-count and trends in that case-count as a consequence of the coverage of the immunization program. It may well be that some percentage of those that get vaccinated do NOT develop any sort of robust immune response. But if they aren't surrounded by other folks shedding gobs of virus every time they sneeze, then their_ individual_ immunity matters less.


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

mhammer said:


> Correct. My concern is that too few people _understand_ vaccination and the development of immunity, and public immunization programs - as you rightly note - will not check for actual immune response in individuals. Immunization programs look for the _population-wide_ result. I.E., I don't need to know what your _particular_ immune response is, or how far along it is progressing; what I need to know is the aggregate case-count and trends in that case-count as a consequence of the coverage of the immunization program. It may well be that some percentage of those that get vaccinated do NOT develop any sort of robust immune response. But if they aren't surrounded by other folks shedding gobs of virus every time they sneeze, then their_ individual_ immunity matters less.


I guess what good would it be to even check for an immune response post vaccine. A poor response is largely due to diseases of lifestyle. And we already know how well the masses are at making those changes. We are in a society that frikken rewards getting the vaccine with a doughnut!

Agreed and I see your point. And the "Asymptomatic spread" model is seriously under question. No symptoms, no vectors or transmission and for the most part lower viral loads. 

I see what you're saying about the video but I like it as it's less of a "cookie cutter" response that the government has been handing out regarding vaccinations, eligibility and who should and maybe shouldn't get it.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

I did not watch and I won't : I am fed up with info on Covid stuff !


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

mhammer said:


> I watched half of the first one and couldn't take much more. What I find troublesome about his video is that it is a purely molecular biology perspective, with no attention to public health or contagion spread. That's not irrelevant, but it is far from complete, as a strategy. One's own "natural immunities", real or imagined, are moot_ if the spread of the disease in the general population has been halted_. Me, I have no idea whatsoever if I have "natural immunities" to smallpox or leprosy, neither do I care, because I know neither disease is _running rampant_ in my community. Prevalence and incidence counts for as much, and occasionally more than, vaccines. Moreover, as much as he almost brags about his own "natural immunities", how does he actually *know* that this exists? More importantly, how would any of the people watching the video know that they have some sort of "natural immunity"?
> 
> As for early reports about people being more susceptible to variants after a 2nd dose, one MUST factor in better evidence of health behaviours. Chances are pretty good that people who had NOT been vaccinated yet were still taking precautions, and those vaccinated began "living life normally" (i.e., perhaps NOT taking precautions); potentially before they had actually developed immunity in response to vaccination (immune systems don't all share the same clock). To be fair, we don't _know_ that this is what happened, but we also don't know that it didn't. Viruses don't Uber over to your place, and come in to the house like a cat. Their spread depends on *human behaviour*, and few of the studies that don't involve direct human challenges in controlled conditions are able to reliably account for that. This is why VERY large numbers of volunteers are required for efficacy studies.
> 
> The Vox video was much better in my view, and took a big-picture public health perspective. It does a nice job of contrasting the conditions under which the different vaccines were tested, clearly demonstrating that if one's dependent measure is number infected in this vs that condition, the background infection rate in the general populace, at the time of measurement, matters VERY much. The only quarrel I would have with it is the absence of the word "estimate". (Honestly, sometimes getting an economist or an epidemiologist to use the word "estimate", whether as a noun or a verb, is like pulling an impacted rear molar out of them.) What one arrives at is an *estimate* of the_ probability_ of getting infected. I'm confident, as are regulatory bodies, that it's in the ballpark of reality, but as the video also makes clear, people can read far too much into these numerical estimates. My own graduate training made a point of drawing one's attention to potential "time-of-measurement" confounds (i.e., if I had measured X at a different point in history, would I have observed the same result? Is what I think I'm seeing really just something going on in the background everywhere, or a result of what I *think* is doing the causing?) I thought the Vox video also did a nice job of asking, and illustrating, what the spectrum of vaccination outcomes is that may truly matter. As keeps being noted on this forum, there is a whole lot of territory between died-on-a-ventilator-in-the-ICU and nah-never-got-even-the-least-bit-sick.



I'll take healthy immune system, healthy living over being some fat slob stuffing wendys burgers down my throat daily, smoking, with big belly, any day. All that health isn't a guarantee. And neither is the vaccine. I expect mutated variants will render any of the current vaccines near useless. But when you're as strong and healthy as possible at least you give your self a chance.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

mawmow said:


> I did not watch and I won't : I am fed up with info on Covid stuff !


Not sure why you bothered with the thread then.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

RJP110 said:


> I guess what good would it be to even check for an immune response post vaccine. A poor response is largely due to diseases of lifestyle. And we already know how well the masses are at making those changes. We are in a society that frikken rewards getting the vaccine with a doughnut!
> 
> Agreed and I see your point. And the "Asymptomatic spread" model is seriously under question. No symptoms, no vectors or transmission and for the most part lower viral loads.
> 
> I see what you're saying about the video but I like it as it's less of a "cookie cutter" response that the government has been handing out regarding vaccinations, eligibility and who should and maybe shouldn't get it.


I agree. The government does nothing but pedal fear. Just like those weather reports that predict the apocalypse snow storms then we get 2 inches in an overnight snow fall.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> The government does nothing but pedal fear.


Given the rather foolish unmasked protests and crowds that keep cropping up, apparently not_ enough_ fear. It's a pity that sheer reason doesn't work on a great many people, and you have to appeal to their emotions to get them to act in their own or their community's best interests. But that's people for ya.

Like yourself, I'll take healthy living as well, but for some things healthy living isn't enough and needs a little help. I haven't had more than maybe 2 sick days in total over the last 4 years. I haven't really changed my "health" regimen very much. Maybe a bit more fruit and vegetables, but nothing drastic. But what I _have_ done is stopped taking a crowded commuter bus to work 5 days a week. Not sharing seats and handrails with hundreds of other strangers has been the biggest improvement in my health in ages.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Given the rather foolish unmasked protests and crowds that keep cropping up, apparently not_ enough_ fear. It's a pity that sheer reason doesn't work on a great many people, and you have to appeal to their emotions to get them to act in their own or their community's best interests. But that's people for ya.
> 
> Like yourself, I'll take healthy living as well, but for some things healthy living isn't enough and needs a little help. I haven't had more than maybe 2 sick days in total over the last 4 years. I haven't really changed my "health" regimen very much. Maybe a bit more fruit and vegetables, but nothing drastic. *But what I have done is stopped taking a crowded commuter bus to work 5 days a week. Not sharing seats and handrails with hundreds of other strangers has been the biggest improvement in my health in ages.*


Is that good. We have become such germaphobes that we sterilize our environment until our immune systems are so out of shape the first bug that hits us knocks us on our ass or kills us.
If we want to be able to lift 50 pounds with out hurting our selves we exercise our muscles. When we sit on the couch (lockdowns really tie us to our couches) then our muscles atrophy. Keeping our selves away from everything with a sterile environment and does our immune system also atrophy? I'm not suggesting we play careless during a global pandemic, I'm just wondering if our strategy (the one forced on us ) is the healthiest for our health, physical, mental, financial.


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## Griff (Sep 7, 2016)

guitarman2 said:


> Just like those weather reports that predict the apocalypse snow storms then we get 2 inches in an overnight snow fall.


You think that's government trying to pedal fear?


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

guitarman2 said:


> Is that good. We have become such germaphobes that we sterilize our environment until our immune systems are so out of shape the first bug that hits us knocks us on our ass or kills us.
> If we want to be able to lift 50 pounds with out hurting our selves we exercise our muscles. When we sit on the couch (lockdowns really tie us to our couches) then our muscles atrophy. Keeping our selves away from everything with a sterile environment and does our immune system also atrophy? I'm not suggesting we play careless during a global pandemic, I'm just wondering if our strategy (the one forced on us ) is the healthiest for our health, physical, mental, financial.


I wear my mask, but I really don't think they do anything besides psychological. And lockdowns? Maybe some benefit early on....MAYBE. But this virus is endemic in most parts of the world. Nope.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Griff said:


> You think that's government trying to pedal fear?


No thats the weather guy.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

I have room for a vaccine in each butt cheek and one in the neck.

I will use this efficacy chart to guide my choices when I figure out a way to get all 3.

And when the novo comes, I’ll get it right in my nipple.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

Always12AM said:


> I have room for a vaccine in each butt cheek and one in the neck.
> 
> I will use this efficacy chart to guide my choices when I figure out a way to get all 3.
> 
> And when the novo comes, I’ll get it right in my nipple.


I'm coming over to your house for the post covid party.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

HighNoon said:


> I'm coming over to your house for the post covid party.


I’m going to have a 25 piece guitar orchestra on my driveway. Bring your loudest amp.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

New Israeli drug cured 29 of 30 moderate/serious COVID cases in days — hospital


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

Jim DaddyO said:


> New Israeli drug cured 29 of 30 moderate/serious COVID cases in days — hospital


Very cool. Growth Factors, stem cell therapy.....treatments to hold the fort so they have time to work out the bugs in the injectables.....or not.


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

Check out the papers and video explanations on the cover-19 vaccines as explained by Geert Vanden Bossche, PhD degree in Virology from the University of Hohenheim, Germany. He has an impressive resume.
Website: https://www.geertvandenbossche.org
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/geertvandenbossche/
Videos: 



 




Experience








Independent Researcher
Dates Employed Mar 2018 – Present
Employment Duration 3 yrs 2 mos
Location 3040 Huldenberg








Managing Director
Company Name
VARECO
Dates Employed Sep 2012 – 2019
Employment Duration 7 yrs
Location Europe
Independent vaccine consultant with a long- standing track record in Academia, Vaccine Industry and Global Health (GH); providing support on vaccine project management as well as advice, guidance and expert opinion on preclinical development of vaccines & biologicals, from project selection up to IND. 
Assignments include prophylactic and therapeutic vaccine projects in Human and Veterinary Vaccine Industry, Small Biotech, Global Health organizations in the US or Europe

My knowledge, insights and skills cover a diversified spectrum of Life Science domains including:

Life Science Project Management (in early and late dvpt)
Due diligence on technologies & processes related to vaccines, adjuvants and biologicals
Patent writing and strategic IP management
Guidance on regulatory requirements to CMC documentation, DMF files
Target product profiling and SWOT analysis
Infectious and immune-mediated diseases including their (immune) pathogenesis and epidemiology
Host-pathogen interactions and mechanisms of immune escape
Innate and adaptive immunology (both, humoral and cell-mediated)
Antigen discovery
Preclinical vaccine development (including animal experimentation as well as immunological
and physicochemical characterization of vaccines and biologicals)
- Vaccine formulation science and modern vaccine delivery technologies (incl. devices); modern
technologies for enhancement of antimicrobicidal activity in multidose vaccines
- Small-scale pre-GMP vaccine manufacturing (incl. synthetic chemistry of Ag or adjuvant,
recombinant Ag expression, viral vectors, upstream and downstream processing)

To enhance the quality and capacity of my consultancy services, I leverage an extensive network of professional contacts providing direct access to US and European governmental and regulatory agencies, Academia and Research Institutions, Human and Veterinary Vaccine Industry, Global & Public Health organizations and CROs in the US and Europe.see less








Head of the Vaccine Development Office
Company Name
German Centre for Infection Research (DZIF)
Dates Employed Aug 2017 – Dec 2017
Employment Duration 5 mos
Location Cologne, Germany
Spearheading a portfolio of translational vaccine research projects, conducted at German universities and research centres sponsored by DZIF. Holding overall accountability for strategic alignment of translational infection research in support of preclinical and early clinical testing.
 Developing a trans-academic translational network for Vaccine development totalling eight universities and research organizations across Germany.see less










Chief Innovation & Scientific Officer
Company Name
Univac
Dates Employed Nov 2014 – Nov 2016
Employment Duration 2 yrs 1 mo
Location Huldenberg
II founded Univac as inventor of a new vaccine technology which I subsequently further developed as CSO of the Company. The technology enables the development of universal vaccines educating the host immune system to redirect immune targeting away from canonical antigens to a widely divergent spectrum of vitally vulnerable pathogen-derived ‘self-mimicking’ antigens, irrespective of MHC polymorphism. Although ‘non-self’ and exposed on the surface of infected or pathologically altered cells, these antigens are not effectively recognised upon natural infection or disease. 
This new type of vaccines harnesses the power of the immune system by unlocking the untapped potential of self-centered Natural Killer (NK) cells capable of recognising these unconventional antigens. The resulting type of immune response is unprecedented and licenses the host immune system to readily eliminate infection or to cure disease across a broad range of unrelated pathogens and/ or mammalian species. This sharply contrasts with conventional targeting of natural immune responses as induced by conventional vaccines. 
Because of their fast (NK cells) and universally protective effect, Univac vaccines are uniquely suited to prevent pathogenic agents from escaping host immune responses as of an early stage of infection or immune-mediated disease. The technology obviates the need for traditional adjuvants, multiple boost injections or expensive manufacturing processes and is readily compatible with intradermal or mucosal administration. Hence, it also offers unprecedented advantages in terms of safety, convenience and cost-effectiveness.see less








Program Manager
Company Name
Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunisation (GAVI)
Dates EmployedMar 2015 – Mar 2016
Employment Duration 1 yr 1 mo
LocationGeneva Area, Switzerland
During my term at GAVI, I coordinated GAVI’s Ebola Vaccine Program and contributed to the implementation of an integrated vaccine work plan in collaboration with Global Health Partners (WHO, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, CDC, UNICEF), regulators (FDA) and vaccine manufacturers to enable timely deployment or stockpiling of Ebola vaccine candidate(s) that suitably meet the requirements for use in an Ebola epidemic. In this capacity, I also contributed to several workshops aimed at proposing novel and efficient approaches to improving preparedness in cases of Global Health Emergencies of international concern.see less








DVM, PhD, adjunct professor
Company Name
Positions in Academia
Dates EmployedSep 1980 – Sep 2015
Employment Duration 35 yrs 1 mo
LocationBelgium - Germany
- Training in Veterinary Medicine at the faculty Notre-Dame-de-la-Paix and the State University of 
Ghent (1980-1983)

Doctoral degree in Veterinary Medicine from State University of Ghent (1983)
Postdoctoral training in Equine Medicine and Surgery at the Free University of Berlin, Germany
(1984-1987)
- Postdoctoral Fellowship in Virology at James A. Baker Institute for Animal Health, Cornell 
University, Ithaca, NY 14850, USA (Sept 1990- mid 1991)
- Research scientist in Virology, Immunology and Molecular Biology at the Robert Koch 
Institute in Berlin, Germany (1987- 1990)

Board certified in Veterinary Virology (1990)
Senior Research Scientist and Head of Environmental Virology at University of Hohenheim,
Stuttgart, Germany (1990-1994)

Board certified in Veterinary Microbiology and Animal Hygiene (1992)
Visiting Professor in Environmental Virology at the European Faculty for Environmental Sanitation
(1998-2004)
- Adjunct Professor in Environmental Virology and Zoonotic Diseases at University of Hohenheim, 
Stuttgart, Germany (1997-2000)
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Senior Program Officer, Global Health, Vaccine Discovery
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Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF)
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Location Seattle, Washington 98102, USA
Responsible for operating Vaccine Programs (e.g., HIV-1, Malaria, TB, Polio...) and establishing international product development partnerships for immune interventions in Global Health (e.g., with Academia, Biotech Industry, NIH, Welcome Trust, WHO, PATH). Coordinating and spearheading international collaborations and consortia on innovative vaccine approaches and steering multidisciplinary vaccine initiativessee less









Global Project Director Influenza Vaccines
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Solvay Biologicals
Dates Employed Jul 2007 – May 2008
Employment Duration 11 mos
Location Weesp, the Netherlands
Responsible for leading the operational aspects of an interdisciplinary project team including the planning and implementation of adjuvanted Influenza vaccines that enable dose sparing.

Implementation of commercial-scale production of cell-based methods and expansion of Influenza vaccine production capacity such as to meet DHSS (U.S. Department of Human Health Services) contractual requirements (Pandemic Influenza Preparedness Plan)see less








Director, Research Program Leader and Head of Adjuvants
Company Name
Novartis Vaccines & Diagnostics
Dates Employed Aug 2006 – Jul 2007
Employment Duration 1 yr
Location Siena, Italy & Emeryville, USA
Vaccine Research Program/Adjuvant Program responsibilities: 

Project leader of NVD's RSV vaccine project (Respiratory Syncytial Virus)
Coordinator of preclinical activities on combined seasonal RSV-Influenza vaccine for elderly &
high risk adults
- Responsible for defining and shaping the scope and strategy of NVD's adjuvant and vaccine 
delivery technologies including management of NVD’s adjuvant portfolio, opportunity sourcing, and 
establishment of an internal interdisciplinary due diligence team for the evaluation of relevant 
extramural opportunities.see less








Head of Adjuvant Technologies and Alternative Deliveries, R&D
Company Name
Glaxo Smith Kline Biologicals
Dates EmployedMay 2001 – May 2006
Employment Duration 5 yrs 1 mo
Location Rixensart, Belgium
- Research Program Leader on Vaccine Formulation Development & Alternative Deliveries and in 
charge of biophysical characterization activities on adjuvanted vaccine formulations.
- Coordination and follow-up of extramural contracts & collaboration agreements on new 
immunization strategies and innovative vaccine adjuvant, delivery or formulation technologies 
(e.g., co-delivery, mucosal, subcutaneous, intradermal immunization)

Development and validation of vaccine and adjuvant characterization assays
Study of adjuvant-antigen interaction and of adjuvant structure-function relationship
Coordination and resource management of preclinical activities including CMC section of INDs
and cGMP production of (adjuvanted) vaccine candidates
- Planning laboratory activities and establishing outside collaborations with academiasee less









Company NameGSK Biologicals
Total Duration6 yrs 4 mos
Title New Biotech Vaccine Development and QC-QA Manager
Dates EmployedFeb 1995 – May 1998
Employment Duration 3 yrs 4 mos
LocationRixensart, Belgium
Major responsibilities (3 direct reports; 6 technicians): 

- Management and coordination of vaccine product development, optimization as well as validation 
of analytical methods in accordance with regulatory requirements or guidelines and vaccine 
marketing constraints

Budget management of all activities related to QC assay development
Transfer from R&D and further development of new QC-relevant characterization techniques on
new vaccine candidates (e.g., HSV-2 vaccine, Lyme disease vaccine); contacts with national/ 
international regulatory and health authorities (e.g., FDA, NIBSC, IHE, WHO,…) on technical 
dossiers; active participation in pre-IND meetingssee less

 
TitleSenior Project Leader ‘Adolescent Vaccine Projects'
Dates Employed Jun 1998 – May 2001
Employment Duration 3 yrs
LocationRixensart, Belgium
Major responsibilities:
Project Management on Raw Material Traceability (RAMATRA) and vaccine projects in Late Development, e.g., Herpes Simplex Virus type 2, Hepatitis B, Streptococcus Pneumoniae and Enterotoxic Escherichia Coli (in collaboration with SBL Vaccines, Sweden)
 

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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

OMG, please stop.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

mhammer said:


> Correct. My concern is that too few people _understand_ vaccination and the development of immunity, and public immunization programs - as you rightly note - will not check for actual immune response in individuals. Immunization programs look for the _population-wide_ result. I.E., I don't need to know what your _particular_ immune response is, or how far along it is progressing; what I need to know is the aggregate case-count and trends in that case-count as a consequence of the coverage of the immunization program. It may well be that some percentage of those that get vaccinated do NOT develop any sort of robust immune response. But if they aren't surrounded by other folks shedding gobs of virus every time they sneeze, then their_ individual_ immunity matters less.


If you scroll through Twitter a bit you'll see memes making fun about why should people wear a mask, or social distance, after getting vaccinated. At this point it seems half the people treat it all like a joke and don't want to bother learning what they can or should do.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

zztomato said:


> OMG, please stop.


I agree. It's amazing how some people think it's their duty to bring people around to their way of thinking.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

tomee2 said:


> If you scroll through Twitter a bit you'll see memes making fun about why should people wear a mask, or social distance, after getting vaccinated. At this point it seems half the people treat it all like a joke and don't want to bother learning what they can or should do.


There is precious little on Twitter that would lure me into either looking at it or registering. But yeah, this is yet another example illustrating "Hammer's Law", that I proposed in 1994 or so, after the web became established and I stumbled across the "sock puppets" page on the Dilbert site. Hammer's Law states that "The easier and cheaper it is to disseminate information, the less discriminating people will be about what they consider to BE 'information' ".

It would seem that snarky jabs and zingers, posted on impulse from a phone (itself a device that caters to impulsiveness and impatience) are supposed to be _worth_ making public, and allocating time to consuming. I've no intention of going all Clint Eastwood on people, but what you describe is not a good trend. Public health measures should not be treated like a bunch of youths sitting around on the steps trying to outdo each other's insults about "your mama".


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

tomee2 said:


> If you scroll through Twitter a bit you'll see memes making fun about why should people wear a mask, or social distance, after getting vaccinated. At this point it seems half the people treat it all like a joke and don't want to bother learning what they can or should do.


My SIL in South Carolina and cousin in Georgia both buy into the conspiracy-thing and refuse to get vaccinated. The only hope for them would be if Trump came out of hiding and told them to do it because he personally invented the vaccines or something like that.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

social media will be the cause of the next mass extinction. Not climate change. 😋


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

Some good news for those scared to go outside...


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I love these threads,. a little spam, some conspiracy theory, sprinkle of distraction and the inevitable lock/delete/move to the dumpster.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

mhammer said:


> I've no intention of going all Clint Eastwood on people


Hey, come on. If more people were comfortable with the whole 'talking to empty chairs' thing, we might be through this mess already.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Here we go, news outlets reporting that ON is opening vaccinations to 40+ group.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

ZeroGravity said:


> Here we go, news outlets reporting that ON is opening vaccinations to 40+ group.


how dare they!


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

vadsy said:


> how dare they!


But no golf for you, come back one year


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

ZeroGravity said:


> But no golf for you, come back one year


been taking ten drops of Lorenzo's oil, diluted, every morning over the last ten days. no covid here


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Is that the brand-name Lorenzo's, or the cheaper generic stuff?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Is that the brand-name Lorenzo's, or the cheaper generic stuff?


you can get it at the Bulk Barn


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Serious note.

One of the difficulties posed by a site like this is that the provinces are introducing different vaccination regimens, and the decisions keep changing along with case-counts and vaccine supply, yet forum members from all over the country are both posting and reading posts from folks in other parts of the country. And we wonder why people are confused and there are conflicting messages. There are times when the internet is not especially helpful.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Lincoln said:


> social media will be the cause of the next mass extinction. Not climate change. 😋


.............. lol

That’s probably correct.


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

zztomato said:


> OMG, please stop.


Stop what?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Midnight Rider said:


> Stop what?


the spam


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

vadsy said:


> the spam


What spam?

https://anti-empire.com/amp/mick-ja...ti-deep-state-song/?__twitter_impression=true


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Midnight Rider said:


> Stop what?


....if you have to ask....


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

Midnight Rider said:


> Stop what?


Just line up and get the jab. You will be part of the real time challenge study. That's the part where after all the testing, and after having gotten the injection, they expose the subjects to the virus to see what happens. Much better odds than a lottery ticket. You'll feel better after, knowing you've done your bit to help to serve society and, 'save the world'.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

HighNoon said:


> Just line up and get the jab. You will be part of the real time challenge study. That's the part where after all the testing, and after having gotten the injection, they expose the subjects to the virus to see what happens. Much better odds than a lottery ticket. You'll feel better after, knowing you've done your bit to help to serve society and, 'save the world'.


Personally...I`m one of those selfish cunts that`s gonna sit back and wait until they sort out just how many times I`m gonna have to get stuck with this shit regarding all the variant strains. I`m not interested in endless jabs annually. I don`t take flu shots either. I`m not a lab rat. Short term adverse reaction numbers are pretty low, so that`s reassuring, but I`m still not with the program like some.

I`m not judging although...just looking out for my own interests. I`ll follow the herd at some point possibly, but at a reasonable distance in tow.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

__





Social trap - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Probably gonna be booster shots along the way as this thing evolves assuming you accept the idea of vaccinations.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

mhammer said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


From the link you posted...

_*Jump to navigation*_*Jump to search*
_*In psychology, a social trap is a situation in which a group of people act to obtain short-term individual gains, which in the long run leads to a loss for the group as a whole.*_

Too bad for you.

While i still have some personal rights left, I`m going to exercise them. Go indirectly shame someone who actually adheres to social pressure. I`m not that guy. You`re wasting your time.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

Jim Wellington said:


> _*Jump to navigation*_*Jump to search*
> _*In psychology, a social trap is a situation in which a group of people act to obtain short-term individual gains, which in the long run leads to a loss for the group as a whole.*_


On second thought, what you offered illustrates the activities of bureaucrats and elected officials perfectly...more so than anything I might be capable of.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Social traps occur when individuals forego group benefit, which_ includes_ them, largely because they think "Hell, I'm not gonna be the sucker who has to give up anything".

A wonderful book I was referred to by our former Clerk of the Privy Council, began with an anecdote, in which the author, a Swedish sociologist, was at a social event connected to a talk he was invited to give in Moscow. A Russian official approached him and, to make small talk, asked what percentage of Swedes paid their taxes. "We estimate about 94%" the author replied. The Russian official was aghast. "Here, it is around 21%", he said.. Why? Well, with no tax revenue to provide social programs and similar benefits, the way that the Swedish, and other Scandinavian governments do, Russians figure "Hell no! I'm not gonna be the sucker that has to pay. And for what? We don't get anything.". Of course, the reason they don't get anything is because, quite apart from corruption, the treasury doesn't have the money to provide programs, further reinforcing the perception that taxes are a fool's game. They forfeit what *could* provide collective benefit to themselves as well as others.

Another example he gives involves taxis in a major Italian city. Normally, a dispatcher assigns fares to cabs in an equitable manner. Individual cabbies started thinking "Hell, I'm not gonna wait", and would listen in on the radio, and scoop up a nearby fare before the cab the dispatcher was assigning it to could get there. It didn't take very long for the entire dispatcher system to stop being heeded, as more cabbies started thinking "F*** this, I'm not getting my far share. I'm gonna snatch whatever I can find.", and the dispatcher system was abandoned, requiring all cabbies to spend more time and gas money driving around, keeping an eye out for fares.

The "I'm not gonna be a guinea pig" attitude is fundamentally the same. One forfeits the personal and social benefits of herd immunity, by declining to help achieve it. One is either helping to pull the rope in the tug-of-war against the disease, or you're simply touching it with a finger to *look* like you're helping.

I lament, but understand the mistrust many have of authority. But the question one always has to begin with is "What would be required to address and fix social problem X?". And nearly every time, it requires the involvement of authority. As Jason Kenney painfully learned, leaving things up to "people's good judgment" is no miracle cure for anything. That doesn't imply blind trust in authority. Far from it. Humans gonna human, and authority folks are human. But it does mean one can't achieve the desired objective without a role for authority and _collective_ action. The alternative is social traps.

Sorry for the oblique political slant. That's as far as I'll go here.


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

mhammer said:


> Social traps occur when individuals forego group benefit, which_ includes_ them, largely because they think "Hell, I'm not gonna be the sucker who has to give up anything".
> 
> A wonderful book I was referred to by our former Clerk of the Privy Council, began with an anecdote, in which the author, a Swedish sociologist, was at a social event connected to a talk he was invited to give in Moscow. A Russian official approached him and, to make small talk, asked what percentage of Swedes paid their taxes. "We estimate about 94%" the author replied. The Russian official was aghast. "Here, it is around 21%", he said.. Why? Well, with no tax revenue to provide social programs and similar benefits, the way that the Swedish, and other Scandinavian governments do, Russians figure "Hell no! I'm not gonna be the sucker that has to pay. And for what? We don't get anything.". Of course, the reason they don't get anything is because, quite apart from corruption, the treasury doesn't have the money to provide programs, further reinforcing the perception that taxes are a fool's game. They forfeit what *could* provide collective benefit to themselves as well as others.
> 
> ...


Please,... Stop with the

















and or the








logic.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Midnight Rider said:


> Please,... Stop with the
> View attachment 361566
> 
> View attachment 361565


lol. no, he typed all of that. no copy/paste


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

vadsy said:


> lol. no, he typed all of that. no copy/paste


What's the difference?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The difference is I had to think about it,and edited it so as to provoke thought in others. But apparently,my efforts didn't work flawlessly.

Ah well, humans gonna human.


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

mhammer said:


> The difference is I had to think about it,and edited it so as to provoke thought in others. But apparently,my efforts didn't work flawlessly.
> 
> Ah well, humans gonna human.


Well then,... I suppose the post must be irrefutable.
With all due respect,... but sometimes,... you come across as being just a taaaaaaad full of yourself.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Yeah, that's me alright.


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

mhammer said:


> Yeah, that's me alright.


I concur,... carry on.


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