# Guitar Vrs. Amplifier ... where do you stand?



## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

Ok folks
I would like to know which camp you belong in.:

The Guitar Camp says:
I have tweaked my guitar to give me the tone that I love.
Changed the pickups.... pots and caps to my choosing...strings to my specific taste. etc. etc.
I can plug this guitar into almost any amp ( within reason) and I can get the tone that I expect.

The Amplifier Camp says:
Finally got my amp. I replaced all the tubes to suit my tone.
I first replaced the speaker so that it sounds the way I want it.
I can plug almost any guitar ( within reason) into this amp and I will get the tone that I expect.

So...are you in the Guitar OR Amplifier camp ( both is not a very good answer ...lol) ?
looking forward to your opinions.
G.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I like to experiment with string brands, gauges and types (e.g. flat wound) and wound 3rd
I have also experimented with pickups, pot values and caps.



GTmaker said:


> ....( both is not a very good answer ...lol)


Unfortunately, I will mess up this by saying that I have enjoyed trying MANY various speakers.


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## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

I am not a one dimensional person when it comes to guitars, so why would you ask everyone to choose a limitation of one way?

That throws the concept of many guitars, amps, pedals, rooms, etc. out, and makes your way right?


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

A crappy amp will sound like crap no matter what.
As long as a guitar is set up well and plays well, a good amp will sound good no matter what the guitar.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Different amps sound different with different guitars. I like both.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

It's all in the Pick!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

My live rig consists of 4 bone stock components and a string gauge thats different from factory.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Amps.

Lots of guitars sound great through the amps I bought.

Guitars need to play well first, then you can change the pickups.

I have one guitar that sounds bad through good amps.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

I'm in the Amp Camp. Play any guitar through a crappy amp and it will sound, well crappy. Play almost any guitar from the cheapest Squier to the most expensive custom shop and they will all sound good through a decent amp.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Personally I think it's a combination of both...which is slightly skewed to the guitar side. I mean, a Strat almost always sounds like a Strat.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

My guitar, and the way I play it, dictates my tone the most. I sound like myself on all of my amps. If I play a shitty amp, I sound like myself but with poor sound quality like a bad bootleg.


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## NashvilleDeluxe (Feb 7, 2018)

My first reaction would be to say that both are important. But, a high quality amp will reveal a bad-sounding/setup guitar. A good guitar is half about the way it plays, and the other half the way it sounds.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

It’s all in the fingers. The more I practice the better my shit sounds. ^)@#


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## Zifnab (Dec 1, 2017)

They are both two parts of the whole. One cannot sound good without the other. But I have friends who are way more accomplished at playing guitar than I am and even if I play a song through my rig, and pass them the guitar right after it sounds so different than when I play. 

True tone is in the hands I think.


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## Yamariv (Jan 15, 2018)

GTmaker said:


> Ok folks
> I would like to know which camp you belong in.:
> 
> The Guitar Camp says:
> ...


Why would you only do one side of the equation?? Mod both and you have your sound!! So yes Both is a good answer


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

The guitar has to be well set up and fit my bitchy little fret hand very, very well and be comfortable to hold and play overall. Doesn't matter if the amp is sent from above, if the guitar doesn't meet the requirements I have stated, ... forget it.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I am in neither camp. I am in the multi fx camp. I don't need to change pickups, pots, caps, etc.unless it was for quality purposes. I pick my guitars for their playability and get the tone I want from my multi fx unit.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

jdto said:


> Different amps sound different with different guitars. I like both.


That was gonna be my answer.

I have have a bunch of amps and guitars. They all have individual characteristics and respond differently in various combinations.

I like all of them. It’s nice to have options but if I had to go back to one guitar and one amp well I could make that work too.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Just like some people do, some guitars, and some amps, and some pedals, have "strong personalities" that demand the spotlight and bring everything and everyone around them to comply with it. For instance, a big-box jazz guitar is going to sound like itself, virtually independent of the amp used, as long as the amp is run clean. In some instances, the guitar will take on the personality of the amp (and many "superstrats" fit that category). And in yet other instances, the guitar has to be married to the right amp. Telecasters being paired up with something that aims for Fender chimey-ness is a good example of that. The guitar itself has a relatively strong personality, but requires a certain context to really bring it out.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Steadfastly said:


> I am in neither camp. I am in the multi fx camp. I don't need to change pickups, pots, caps, etc.unless it was for quality purposes. I pick my guitars for their playability and get the tone I want from my multi fx unit.


Which multi fx unit do you use?


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

I do have to say....even though initially I said the amp is more important, the more I think about it, I have played way more crappy guitars than I have crappy amps. Most amp out there will do the job.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I've owned many really high end boutique amps, some costing as much as 5k. I've also owned many high end guitars. In the end I now have some pretty high end guitars and an amp that is nothing overly special or expensive but does exactly what I need it to do. So I have to go with guitars being the most important.


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

Its all in the fingers, IMHO... But then I constantly tweak both my guitars and amps!


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I can't separate the 2 for some reason. Don't seem to get loud enough without 1 or the other. I'll choose both. Like others, specific Amp/Guitar combos for different things. I've changed speakers on all of my amps, and a pickup or 2 on all guitars. Except for my A&L Q1 Acoustic.


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## Fuzzy dagger (Jun 3, 2016)

I have the experience of using my guitar and my amp one week and it sounds great, and the next week not so much. Same equipment and settings. So what's that? Operator error? Hearing fatigue? On the whole, the amp I have now, Traynor yba1-mod1, sounds better for me than my fender, with the same guitars.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Amp 80 guitar 20. Why play your custom shop whatever through a Gorilla? But a cheap Chinese clone, as long as set up to be playable, will sound awesome through a good amp, or at least has a good chance.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

RBlakeney said:


> Which multi fx unit do you use?


This is the one I have at the moment. For guitar effects only, I am sure there are better ones at this price point but for what I do, I don't need the top of the line unit.






This will be the next one I get if I make any changes.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Short and sweet and I am saying both.


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## Ronbeast (Nov 11, 2008)

I usually stand to the right, but that’s because there’s a wall on the left.

I’m another for the “both” camp. It’s a combination of all elements coming together.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Amp for sure. I'd say the amp controls 70% of the tone.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Guncho said:


> Amp for sure. I'd say the amp controls 70% of the tone.


Yet no matter what I do with my amp I can't get my strat to sound like a les paul or my tele to sound like a strat.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

The guitar, the amp and the player/hands are one system (not accounting for peripherals, like pedals, which I'd include with the amps). 

I believe each is 33.3% of the formula. The last 0.1% is mojo.


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## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

From what I have witnessed many, many times, is that true talent trumps all equipment. I am not in that camp, but wish I was.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I'm all about the amp in terms of tone, and all about the guitar in terms of comfort.
I don't mod amps at all...they either work for me or they don't.
I don't mod guitars much either other than sometimes livelier pickups if the tone is muddy. the better my amp is, the less fussing with my guitars I have to do.


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## Judas68fr (Feb 5, 2013)

Mmh, hard to quantify. I'd say that most of the final tone is the amp, but the guitar does play a significant role too. For instance, only a Telecaster can give you that fat bridge pick up twang. Only a 335 can give you that full woody neck pick up tone. 

If I'd have to quantify, I'd say it's 80% amp, 20% guitar. The player can make a pretty big difference too. I've come to this conclusion while lending my guitar to a friend during a soundcheck. He was playing my guitar, my amp, with my settings, but it did sound different. I always set my amps to the edge of breakup for my playing style. He couldn't get them to crunch, it was dead clean. I have a strong right hand attack (lots of flamenco/acoustic guitar playing before getting to electric guitars).


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

Amp.
No shit a strat won't sound like a Les paul, I don't think we're debating that


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

With the right pedals or FX unit, you can make a strat sound like anything you want.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Please post clips of your Strat through $200 mfx pedal sounding like this.










Or even sounding like a Gretsch would be a stretch, and that's at least in the same universe.

I kinda wish my ears were so bad that I couldn't tell the difference between my 6120 and a Strat through am RP200. I don't know what I woulda done with all the money I saved. Probably take up hard drugs or something...........


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> With the right pedals or FX unit, you can make a strat sound like anything you want.


with the right FX unit, ...you won't have to play at all


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

As long as amp and guitar meet my minimum threshold of quality (playability, tone, build, versatility) I'm happy. If either is sub-par I change it. Some choices are great, but generally I have to have both.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

The longer I'm in this game, the more I realize it's 'learn how to play' more than anything else, especially the gear.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Please post clips of your Strat through $200 mfx pedal sounding like this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dude I was in HS with took 30 feet of pvc pipe, fitted a tuba mouthpiece to one end and laid the whole thing around the inside of a silo near Goodwood, Ontario in or about 1975. Well, it quickly became aparrent that the prototype would need to be refined if he was to take it on the road so the whole rig was shortened to a size that could be worn and a stainless steel kitchen sink was attached to the other end for better sound projection as the silo was not really producing the anticipated sonic results and was impossible to transport easily.


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> With the right pedals or FX unit, you can make a strat sound like anything you want.


yeah, no.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> With the right pedals or FX unit, you can make a strat sound like anything you want.[/QU


No comment.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

TDeneka said:


> yeah, no.


Have you tried a high quality FX unit?


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

I am a strat guy as a strat can kind of get close to a Les Paul sound, but a Les Paul can never get that strat quack, or, even that fat strat neck pup tone.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> The longer I'm in this game, the more I realize it's 'learn how to play' more than anything else, especially the gear.


Yeah, there's been times when I had guitars that weren't much better than a diddley bow but still managed to get something out of them.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> Have you tried a high quality FX unit?





Dorian2 said:


> No comment.


I know I shouldn't but....
Just more troll posts,this and your original one on this thread,you can't seriously believe this crap.​What do you consider high quality ?
What makes it "high quality"? ...marketing ? $200 ?$400?...I'm sure it's not $600 for you.
Have you ever played a "high quality" FX unit live in front of paying customers?
For that matter,have you ever played anything in a live band situation ?
There is a world of difference between playing in your living room and playing with a full band at volume live.
Go ahead and live in your world.but don't pretend it's the real one .


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

I have several guitars, amps, effects and can sound like absolute garbage with any combination of them.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Bubb said:


> I know I shouldn't but....
> Just more troll posts,this and your original one on this thread,you can't seriously believe this crap.​What do you consider high quality ?
> What makes it "high quality"? ...marketing ? $200 ?$400?...I'm sure it's not $600 for you.
> Have you ever played a "high quality" FX unit live in front of paying customers?
> ...


Okay, so I will ask you the same question. Have you played a real high quality FX unit? I'm not talking about $300.00-400.00 units. I am not going to get into a big argument with you here but I have heard them and can see what they can do. There is no way on this earth that you could tell what was being played if you were blindfolded unless you guessed.


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## SG-Rocker (Dec 30, 2007)

If Johan Segeborn has taught me anything, the tone is in the speakers/cabinet.
The guitar has to be comfortable in your hands.

The amp can affect dynamics, gain and sustain.

The speakers and cab, however, sing the song.

The fact that Johan can make any amp sound like a Plexi when driving a vintage Marshall 4x12 with Pulsonic Greenbacks is a testament to this.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

I'll humour you.
I've played a few,and at various price points.
To tell you the truth they don't really interest me.I've never been interested enough to buy one.
To me a little delay or reverb and a touch of distortion is plenty,
A wah wah is(was) pushing it.



Steadfastly said:


> There is no way on this earth that you could tell what was being played if you were blindfolded unless you guessed.


You say that like it's a good thing,(If you can't identify it that's a positive )?MJF$#
You put enough A1 sauce on ground beef it will taste like a sirloin with A1 on it.
I want to hear the guitar I am playing.
A single coil guitar sounds fundamentally different than a dual humbucker whether you want to admit it or not.
I'm a guitar> amp guy,if I want to hear single coils ,I play a guitar with single coils.
My LP copy with pickup switching can approximate a sort of single coil sound but even my wife can tell the difference between that and the real thing.
If you can't ,then I guess that is in your favourGF^%@


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

RBlakeney said:


> I have several guitars, amps, effects and can sound like absolute garbage with any combination of them.


WOW!....same here! 
We should get together and form a band!


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> With the right pedals or FX unit, you can make a strat sound like anything you want.





Steadfastly said:


> Have you tried a high quality FX unit?





Steadfastly said:


> Okay, so I will ask you the same question. Have you played a real high quality FX unit? I'm not talking about $300.00-400.00 units. I am not going to get into a big argument with you here but I have heard them and can see what they can do. There is no way on this earth that you could tell what was being played if you were blindfolded unless you guessed.


This is the Steadly I miss, I really do, where have you been? Keep this up and I’ll let you be Komarov while I be Marchand.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Bubb said:


> I'll humour you.
> I've played a few,and at various price points.
> To tell you the truth they don't really interest me.I've never been interested enough to buy one.
> To me a little delay or reverb and a touch of distortion is plenty,
> A wah wah is(was) pushing it.


I understand. Each to his own. If you're happy with that then that is a good thing. For those that like the new way of doing things with all the new electronics out these days, that's a good thing for them.


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2018)

RBlakeney said:


> I have several guitars, amps, effects and can sound like absolute garbage with any combination of them.





greco said:


> WOW!....same here!
> We should get together and form a band!


or a support group. lol.
oh wait .. that's why we're here.
carry on.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> I understand. Each to his own. If you're happy with that then that is a good thing. For those that like the new way of doing things with all the new electronics out these days, that's a good thing for them.


Sorry Steadly. You seem to be moving the goal posts just a little bit here. The thread is about 2 items in a typical guitar players sound arsenal, as the title of the Thread states. Now if your AMP is a Pre amp in an FX unit running to specific speakers, typically an in house PA if live or some setup at home like FRFR, then I'd suggest that you are talking about an Amp. So I guess you choose AMP. Can you tell me which Pre amp in your effects unit, even with effects, can make a Gibson LP sound like a Fender Strat?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Dorian2 said:


> Sorry Steadly. You seem to be moving the goal posts just a little bit here. The thread is about 2 items in a typical guitar players sound arsenal, as the title of the Thread states. Now if your AMP is a Pre amp in an FX unit running to specific speakers, typically an in house PA if live or some setup at home like FRFR, then I'd suggest that you are talking about an Amp. So I guess you choose AMP. Can you tell me which Pre amp in your effects unit, even with effects, can make a Gibson LP sound like a Fender Strat?


There are a few that I don't think you could tell the difference. Have you tried any to prove they can't?


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> There are a few that I don't think you could tell the difference. Have you tried any to prove they can't?


No I haven't. Which ones?


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> There are a few that I don't think you could tell the difference. Have you tried any to prove they can't?


Those goal posts just disappeared entirely.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Dorian2 said:


> No I haven't. Which ones?


Neither have I done so personally, I have owned a few middle of the road ones and even with these there is a lot of tweaking you can do to get hundreds if not thousands of variations. I have heard better quality units that literally can give you thousands of different sounds and variations of sounds, making your guitar even sound like a different instrument. With a GR-55;, for example, you can actually tune each string. It has just about endless possibilities. I would think with the new Line 6 Helix and its competitors, you could get just about any sound out of them as well. Some members own these now and maybe they will chime in.

In the following demo the guitar is a Godin LGX and the demo is based on a classic strat (last sentence in the video).


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

The Helix really does amps and effects (and cabs and microphones etc). It models the whole signal chain, but it still sounds like the amp it's modelling and doesn't make your guitar sound like another guitar.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

@Steadfastly , sure he said the unit was based on a Classic Strat but it sure as hell didn't sound like one. You're talking about effects masking the true tone of the instrument and Amplifier by adding effects to it. Something like that is better suited in the Effects forum, not as part of this discussion. I'm really trying to be polite but you're sounding rather obtuse about this to be honest.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


> ... but you're sounding rather obtuse about this to be honest.


hmm, seems out of character for the guy. I'll allow it for now, proceed.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

lol


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Dorian2 said:


> @Steadfastly , sure he said the unit was based on a Classic Strat but it sure as hell didn't sound like one. You're talking about effects masking the true tone of the instrument and Amplifier by adding effects to it. Something like that is better suited in the Effects forum, not as part of this discussion. I'm really trying to be polite but you're sounding rather obtuse about this to be honest.


Remember that was just a short demo. Don't base a 15 minute demo on what that and other effects can do. It takes hours and hours to go through everything these things will do. Check it out for yourself in you're really interested. I am not going to spend anymore time on it.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> Remember that was just a short demo. Don't base a 15 minute demo on what that and other effects can do. It takes hours and hours to go through everything these things will do. Check it out for yourself in you're really interested. I am not going to spend anymore time on it.


LOL you just used that video as an example to prove your point, then you said "Don't base a 15 minute demo on what that and other effects can do" (which actually doesn't make sense).

So does the video prove your point or not?


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2018)

jdto said:


> So does the video prove your point or not?


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> Remember that was just a short demo. Don't base a 15 minute demo on what that and other effects can do. It takes hours and hours to go through everything these things will do. Check it out for yourself in you're really interested. I am not going to spend anymore time on it.


Actually, I'm basing my opinion on over 30 years of music experience in bands and recording guitars. And I've spent the "hours and hours" of time on a number of effects processors as I went to them for about 15 years until fairly recently. I'm not interested in how effects processors color my sound. I'm interested in the nuances of tone I get from my amps and guitars. The pedals and FX are just color for the base tone.


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> Have you tried a high quality FX unit?


I have an axe fx 2. So yes.

My comment still stands. You're incorrect.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Steadfastly said:


> Neither have I done so personally, I have owned a few middle of the road ones and even with these there is a lot of tweaking you can do to get hundreds if not thousands of variations. I have heard better quality units that literally can give you thousands of different sounds and variations of sounds, making your guitar even sound like a different instrument. With a GR-55;, for example, you can actually tune each string. It has just about endless possibilities. I would think with the new Line 6 Helix and its competitors, you could get just about any sound out of them as well. Some members own these now and maybe they will chime in.
> 
> In the following demo the guitar is a Godin LGX and the demo is based on a classic strat (last sentence in the video).


Doesn't the lgx have a midi pick up and isn't the gr55 is a guitar synth? ( I might be wrong )... so really aren't you using the guitar as a controller for a synth, and it wouldn't matter what kind of guitar you used so long as you equipped it with a synth pickup?

So when it came down to it, the synth would sound the same no matter which guitar was used, the amp would make the biggest difference in sound..
So you choose amp?


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Dorian2 said:


> @Steadfastly , sure he said the unit was based on a Classic Strat but it sure as hell didn't sound like one. You're talking about effects masking the true tone of the instrument and Amplifier by adding effects to it. Something like that is better suited in the Effects forum, not as part of this discussion. I'm really trying to be polite but you're sounding rather obtuse about this to be honest.


Yes, curious tangent this has taken. I don't think I've ever heard anyone anywhere, ever, say that a cheap ($400) multi-fx unit can make guitars sound like other guitars. That would take ears of stone, IMO.

As you mentioned, most modelers are aimed at amp and effect modeling, not guitar modeling. Entirely different things.

Now if he would have been talking about an L6 VariAxe or similar, maybe an argument could be made. I've played them before and I all can say is they approximate the guitar models they claim to be modeling, but they are far from dead ringers. Perhaps if you invest enough time and energy into fine tuning one and using it a lot, you could get their. But if you regularly play a strat or tele or LP or 335, they just aren't there out of the box.

The fact that Steve Howe uses one live to cover sounds like his Coral Sitar and acoustic tells me it can be dialed in 'close enough'. But the fact that he still plays his ES175, ES335 and Strat for most of the night (among others) tells me it isn't really accurate. Why bother carrying all those extra guitars?

Just the fact that most every guitar player, professional or amateur, uses single coil and humbucker guitars differently tells me that. In fact, when I'm in a two guitar band, I go out of my way to play the opposite of what ever the other guitar player is using, just to broaden our tonal spectrum. MFX pedals just don't do that.

Just complete falacy/fail.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

it seems to me that the more FX introduced between your guitar and an amp the less your guitar tone becomes a factor.
I would also suggest that if you introduce enough FX, you could use any guitar as a sound source and your tone would be the same.
I am not suggesting that a lot of FX is a bad thing. If that is the tone you are after, then it is what it is.
G.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

GTmaker said:


> it seems to me that the more FX introduced between your guitar and an amp the less your guitar tone becomes a factor.
> I would also suggest that if you introduce enough FX, you could use any guitar as a sound source and your tone would be the same.
> I am not suggesting that a lot of FX is a bad thing. If that is the tone you are after, then it is what it is.
> G.


Good point, GT. In the 80's, I only had a couple of guitars. But I played them through fairly high gain amps (or amp /pedal combinations) and I didn't hear nearly the difference I hear now, playing a much wider array of music, and playing more of a clean tone.

I still use effects and gain, but not as much and not all the time (I don't think I turned my chorus pedal off from 1982 till 1989 LOL). 

With a cleanish amp, if you can't hear the diff between an LP and a Strat and a G6120, you are deaf. Or high. Or maybe both.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> I don't think I turned my chorus pedal off from 1982 till 1989 LOL


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

well, sitting around at home I can play a guitar without an amp, but an amp without a guitar does me no good...
But if they both work together well--cool.

I do agree a good amp and not so good guitar will sound better than the other way around though...

but tweak, improve, mod or buy better for both--as it is available & as you can afford.


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