# Opinions: Agile 3100 vs Epi Elitist



## Hired Goon (Mar 4, 2008)

Have not tried either brand before. Specifically I'm looking at these:

http://www.rondomusic.com/product2121.html

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=350135507164

Bidding has already ended on the Epi, but it was about twice the price of the Agile. I hear good things about Agiles and the higher end Epis, but for the price I think I'm leaning towards the Agile.


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I've noodled on a few Elitists and I haven't found one I didn't like. The only Elitist in production now is the Casino. Any others you'd have to find used. I remember an Elitist Casino and SG that particularly blew me away. If I only had the money at the time.

Never been able to try an Agile, so I cannot comment.


----------



## hoser (Feb 2, 2006)

For the money, Agile hands down.

If you plan on reselling it, epiphone. Agiles have no resale value at all.


----------



## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

What Hoser said. But I would look at the 3000 series and up. I think they hold their own against the Elitists, no problem.

But resale value? As ever, if it ain't Gibson or Fender it's dicey. Me, I don't buy for resale value. If I land a guitar it turns out I don't want to keep, I trade it away.

Good luck - and let us know what you get!


----------



## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

I can't speak to the Elitist Epi as I've never tried one but I've heard good things. I currently own an Agile AL3100 and I did have a Korean made Epi LP Ultra which I sold not long after I got the Agile. 

I'd agree with what the other guys said about getting the 3000 series and resale value. The 3000 series is top of the line for Agile but since your initial outlay would be less resale is not as big a deal. 

For what it's worth here's a youtube video of a guy doing a side by side comparo between an AL3000 and a Gibson LP Standard (he does a few in other vids)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDaxIQNkirk


----------



## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Hamstrung said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDaxIQNkirk


Gee I know what his distortion pedal sounds like but little else ...


----------



## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> Gee I know what his distortion pedal sounds like but little else ...


I suppose the guy who posted the videos could be lying but at the end of the video he claims the gear used was a Marshall MKII with a Laney 4x12 cab and no pedals. 
Besides that he did appear to play the same rig and the same riffs on both guitars so at least it was an "apples to apples" comparison despite any other limitations be the technical or otherwise. 
We all know YouTube isn't known for it's high fidelity sound so obviously it's not going to be as valueable as an in-person comparison but I think it gives a fair idea how the Agile compares to a guitar that's about 6x its price. 
There's a couple more vids from the same guy and a few others using various settings if the distortion is too much of a distraction.


----------



## 2005fz1 (Oct 9, 2006)

Another vote for the Agile, Great Guitars!

:food-smiley-004:

Mike


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I echo what hoser said as well. The high end Agile's are beautiful instruments. They have great pickups and great hardware as well. Plus they offer some really cool LP models that no one else offers. Their spalted models are absolutely beautiful.

You would take a resale beating, but you would take a bit of a hit on the Epi as well. The difference is you'd be paying under $500 USD for the Agile. Which to me means one thing..... track down a used 3100 someone already bought a case for and get a deal on it


----------



## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> The only Elitist in production now is the Casino.


make sure you are getting what is advertised.


----------



## Hired Goon (Mar 4, 2008)

Thanks for replies. Resale isn't an issue as I tend to buy and hold, or sometimes give older guitars to relatives.

I noted the comparison spec sheet on the Rondo site, and I prefer the 3100 over the 3000 simply because I think the mother of pearl inlays look more authentic than the abalone inlays. For dot inlays or rosettes on acoustics I like abalone, but for a big LP style inlay the abalone looks almost plasticy or fake to me.

I'd look at a used 3100 but I don't really see much on Ebay.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Hired Goon said:


> Thanks for replies. Resale isn't an issue as I tend to buy and hold, or sometimes give older guitars to relatives.
> 
> I noted the comparison spec sheet on the Rondo site, and I prefer the 3100 over the 3000 simply because I think the mother of pearl inlays look more authentic than the abalone inlays. For dot inlays or rosettes on acoustics I like abalone, but for a big LP style inlay the abalone looks almost plasticy or fake to me.
> 
> I'd look at a used 3100 but I don't really see much on Ebay.


Ya I am with you on the Abalone inlays. Rondo listens to peoples suggestions on the AGF forums, which is why they have started using the MOP more.

I'd suggest putting up a WTB ad on a couple of forums. That is how I got the Agile I bought. It even came with a great tweed case. It only took me about 2 weeks of looking, and I saved ton. The guitar has since been sold to a forum member.


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

For the Agiles, I would go with the 3100, or, if it's available, a 4000. I haven't seen a 4000 in some time, or else I would buy it, and I have severe regret over not pulling the trigger on an absolutely gorgeous out-of-production 3100.

The specs on the 3100 and 4000 make it an absolutely killer guitar for the money, but I would stay away from the 2500 or 2800 or whatever else is below the 3100, simply due to the wood being used in the body.

I'm not a huge LP fan, and I won't pay Gibby prices for a guitar I know will not seem #1 duty, but I would love to have an Agile LP on hand for when I need that LP sound.


----------



## 1PUTTS (Sep 8, 2007)

Hired Goon said:


> Have not tried either brand before. Specifically I'm looking at these:
> 
> http://www.rondomusic.com/product2121.html
> 
> ...


Funny, I was just looking at the exact same Agile yesterday and thinking, "hmmmmm". I need another guitar like I need a kick in the groin but you can't fault a guy for looking. I love spalted maple, I love a rootbeer finish and I don't own a Les Paul style guitar...so it's a perfect match for me. And, having bought another Agile earlier this year, I can say the quality of the parts, fit & finish, feel and overall playability of it far exceeds what I paid for it. You can tell it's a quality instrument from the minute you pick it up.


----------



## Hired Goon (Mar 4, 2008)

1PUTTS said:


> Funny, I was just looking at the exact same Agile yesterday and thinking, "hmmmmm". I need another guitar like I need a kick in the groin but you can't fault a guy for looking. I love spalted maple, I love a rootbeer finish and I don't own a Les Paul style guitar...so it's a perfect match for me. And, having bought another Agile earlier this year, I can say the quality of the parts, fit & finish, feel and overall playability of it far exceeds what I paid for it. You can tell it's a quality instrument from the minute you pick it up.


Haha, yeah I bought 9 guitars already this year (all around $500 or so), and I had already posted here about how many guitars does a guy really need, but damn those Agiles look tempting. 

I love the look of that spalted root beer. The only improvement I'd like is to see the 3/4" maple cap on it that the 3000M version has. 

I watched some the of Youtube vids on the 3100 - all good reviews. Some guys have upgraded the pickups and tail piece, but seems like the electronics/wiring, and tuners are solid. I wonder if the Agile line will continue to improve and encroach on the quality of the Gibsons while maintaining a reasonable price, which is arguably their biggest draw.


----------



## hoser (Feb 2, 2006)

If you want an agile, try over on harmony central...see if anyone is selling an lp2000.
I love mine.


----------



## 1PUTTS (Sep 8, 2007)

Hired Goon said:


> I wonder if the Agile line will continue to improve and encroach on the quality of the Gibsons while maintaining a reasonable price, which is arguably their biggest draw.


Bang for the buck is definitely what makes the Agile line attractive. You get a lot of guitar for the dough. The lower end SX line is also a modders dream...if you like to tinker and just want a good platform from which to start, you can't beat them either.

When I got the Agile, I also got an SX (hey, why not...I'm already paying shipping)...and you can tell it's a lesser quality build. But for the $120 or whatever I paid for it...who cares? It's very playable but could stand an upgrade here and there (pickups, machine heads, nut). But for the price I paid, it's a perfectly fine guitar.

One nice thing about the Kurt (the owner), is that he brings out models with upgraded components if enough people ask and are willing to pay a little extra for some nice add-ons. Hence the MOP inlays, better pickups, more guitars with binding etc.

Whichever way you decide to go, best of luck finding just the right axe...:food-smiley-004:


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Ya their customer service is excellent. Not only the service, but the fact that they actually read the AGF forums and implement a ton of people's requests. And that forum is not even really affiliated with them, it's a forum Agile/SX/Douglas owners/fans started.

My 'only' problem with them is their quality control can be bad. They tend to just ship the guitars out and not even check them. They do offset that with an extremely liberal return policy though. And the higher end guitars like the Agile's aren't as likely to have the QC issues anyway. But still, it's another good reason to track down used ones. You can get one that's already been tested, maybe already upgraded, and maybe with a case for a big discount.

The AFG Online forums have a buy and sell section, so you might want to try there. Most of the sellers will be in the States, but you can save a bunch of cash not only on the used prices, but by getting them to ship it to you USPS instead of Fedex. That alone knocks $40 or so in brokerage fees off the price.


----------



## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

The Agile you linked to has an incredible array of features for $400.00 U.S.!!


----------



## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> My 'only' problem with them is their quality control can be bad.


I would agree, although I find that QC on the basses tend to be better than the guitars. The 3 most common deficiencies that I notice with SX guitars are;

1) Nuts - usually cracked.
2) Frets - slightly uneven and scuffed.
3) Screws - tend to strip (pups, trussrod cover).

Fit and finish in general is impressive and pretty consistent. I haven't received a bad guitar yet. The first bass I bought a couple of years ago was a disaster, but it was replaced without issue. I did notify Rondo via email that I was sending it back and requested that the replacement be examined physically and electronically before shipping. The replacement was 100% and I still own an play it. 

Rondo is definitely a first class operation, and Kurt is great to deal with. Just recently, I was doing a minor pickup adjustment on one of my basses, and most of the screws started to strip. They're a brass colour and an unusual size, not readily available in a hardware store. I emailed Kurt to see if he happened to have any. I received a reply within hours that although he doesn't stock items like that, he knows he has some lying around and will send me what he has. FedEx arrived 4 days later with a box of screws.

Now that's service.


----------



## salv (Sep 24, 2008)

I don't even see the real difference between a 3000 and 3100. I've always had my eye on the 3000 with slim neck. Would love to give an LP with a slim neck a try.


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

salv said:


> I don't even see the real difference between a 3000 and 3100. I've always had my eye on the 3000 with slim neck. Would love to give an LP with a slim neck a try.


The only difference, as far as I know is the 3000 has abalone markers, and the 3100 has MOP.

I wonder what that slim neck feels like, if it's Strat-ish at all. I almost pulled the trigger on a slim neck CSB last year.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Fajah said:


> I would agree, although I find that QC on the basses tend to be better than the guitars. The 3 most common deficiencies that I notice with SX guitars are;
> 
> 1) Nuts - usually cracked.
> 2) Frets - slightly uneven and scuffed.
> ...



Again though SX and Agile are 2 different matters. I agree with your SX comments for sure. And with guitars that price you need to have some flexibility.

The problem is, they use the same QC on the Agiles which cost 3-4 times as much. They don't even look in the box before they ship them out. I guess they have figured somewhere along the line that doing the refunds is cheaper than paying someone to do QC. Because they have no issue whatsoever doing refunds even for the smallest issues. 

I have one other good experience when it comes to ROndo service. I received an SX Jr. that had some weird finish issues around the pickups. They weren't horrible, but the guitar should have been listed as B-Stock. I didn't want to have to ship it back over these issues. I sent Kurt detailed photos, and gave me a partial refund knocking it down to B-stock price. Which was pretty cool.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Yup, kurt is a good guy.

want to know why agile has a few 7-string models? www.sevenstring.org. yeah, we chose the specs.

there's a T-7 coming out (*ender shape) - which we decided on, and one of my buddies in brampton did the design and colours.

I'd like an agile LP to compare to my gibson, plus the backup factor doesnt hurt!


----------



## blink (Jul 29, 2008)

When I was searching for an LP style guitar I played quite a few different brands to see what I would like. I played a number of Epis' including an Elitist and personally couldn't see myself owning any of them.

During my quest I kept seeing references to Agile Al's, and at first just sort of dismissed it, funny thing was the references were usually in threads or articles concerning Epi LP's. So I thought, well, whats the deal with these Agiles I see being mentioned. I started researching Agile and 99% of the reviews were so good (and there's a lot of reviews) that it convinced me to buy Agile. I'm way glad I did now.

I also own two SX stl's tele copies as well, an ash and a /H which is the semi. I bought both with the intention of using as modding platforms. The ash is almost complete and I must say is probably my favourite guitar now, with the Agile Al-3100 close behind it (on some days it takes the lead). I've got a Fender MIM strat and a Jackson Dinky that are sitting gathering dust...the Rondo guitars just won't give them no show.


----------



## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

There is absolutely no contest here. Elitist all the way.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Archer said:


> There is absolutely no contest here. Elitist all the way.


And what is your reasoning for that? The high end Agiles are very comparable in construction, craftmanship, and electronics/hardware/pickups. They only get written off by people who downplay Agile or know nothing about them.

Looking at this spec sheet, what makes the Elitest 'Clearly" better, other than the name on it and the price?

http://www.rondomusic.com/product2121.html

And this isn't even the highest end model Agile makes.

There is a difference between an opinion and a fact in some cases.


----------



## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

I never said that and I'm not going to get into some sort of internet argument if that is what you are hoping for .

I'll rephrase.....IT IS MY OPINION that there is no contest b/w the 2. Though I can't fathom how a person can compare the 2 for playability, build quality, fit and finish and tone and consider the Agile in the same category. If one does then that is good for them

****edit***

I see you modified your post to make it less argumentative.

Not cool. I have no interest in an exchange with a person that backtracks. Perhaps others that like the Epi will speak with you on the matter.


----------



## Hired Goon (Mar 4, 2008)

Archer said:


> There is absolutely no contest here. Elitist all the way.


As the original poster I am interested in your opinion. Most here seem to lean towards the Agile. Can you tell me specifically why you think the Elitist is so much better. The specs on the Agile seem quite good. The pickups on the Elitist would be probably better, but what else?


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

aren't those guitars so similarly spec'd its not even funny?

did anyone factor in that chances are they're built in the same factory?

IMO, get whichever one costs you less - they're both really good guitars from what i've read *but i have never played an elitist les paul or an agile AL*


----------



## 1PUTTS (Sep 8, 2007)

I should qualify that I've never played an Elitist, or even a Les Paul style guitar for that matter. So I'm not comparing the two in any way.

All I'm saying is that I own an Agile and an SX. Both guitars were priced well below what I would expect to pay for what I got. The Agile is a step up in quality, for sure. It just feels better and plays better...the machine heads are nice and smooth, the graphite nut was cut perfectly, the pickups sound good, the frets were all smoothed out on the edges. Just a better quality instrument compared to the SX.

And dealing with Rondo Music was absolutely no problem...I'd order from them again (and most likely will). That's all I'm sayin'...


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Archer said:


> I never said that and I'm not going to get into some sort of internet argument if that is what you are hoping for .
> 
> I'll rephrase.....IT IS MY OPINION that there is no contest b/w the 2. Though I can't fathom how a person can compare the 2 for playability, build quality, fit and finish and tone and consider the Agile in the same category. If one does then that is good for them
> 
> ...


NO it was changed to be more fact based and show the specs. Which your post didn't do. It's nothing to do with argumentative, it's a straight forward question. I believe your posts shows an obvious bias towards the Elitest and does not give any reason why. Every other post in this thread posts a reason why. I found your post insinuating that some of us should 'clearly know better'. When I do know my facts quite well. Then you follow it up with a more demeaning post, 'but don't want to argue'.



> aren't those guitars so similarly spec'd its not even funny?
> 
> did anyone factor in that chances are they're built in the same factory?
> 
> The point I was getting it. They are not "clearly' different guitars. The high end Agile's are the same, and in some cases better specs.


That is the point I was getting at. And that Archer hasn't answered. He'd rather insult me instead.

So pull whatever attitude you want towards me, and have fun with it. The thread was posted to get advice. No one else has made a post knocking one of the models and not giving any reason why. A post like yours doesn't help the OP or the thread. And insulting me for rewording something in a thread is lame. That is why we have an edit button. Should we not use it anymore on your account? If it makes your day to try to talk down to me like a little kid, than have fun. I'd prefer trying to give a useful answer to the OP's question. 

Ya, I am a total backtracker.


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

another vote for the agile from me. 
Wait for the elitist's neck to start warping


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

TDeneka said:


> Wait for the elitist's neck to start warping


I'm assuming that everyone knows this - the Elitists are *Japanese *made.


----------



## blink (Jul 29, 2008)

I have played a couple Elitists, but to be fair, only one before I bought the Agile. The Elitist was a VERY nice guitar indeed, particularly the tone but I just didn't like the way it felt. Plus the feature set are so close to the Agile 3000/3100 it didn't justify paying almost double for the same thing..of course that is solely my opinion and we all know what personal opinions are like 

I think it all comes down to preference and trying to sway someone who already has made their choice is not really productive. Like telling a Ford person that a Chevy is way better , etc.

The opinion only becomes valuable when someone is asking for it as the OP did.

Peace, and Happy Holidays!


----------



## Hired Goon (Mar 4, 2008)

Robert1950 said:


> I'm assuming that everyone knows this - the Elitists are *Japanese *made.


Yup aware of that, and I realize they have a long history of making guitars. Do the Japanese build better guitars than the Koreans (or Chinese)? Well they tend to make better electronics and cars, but I think the gap is a lot less than it used to be. I think I'm ok with Korean work ethic/product [my wife is Korean  ].

I like my Japanese strat, but I also like my Chinese Hagstrom and Korean Tele-copy.

I don't think I'd decide on the Agile vs the Elitist simply based on Japan vs Korea myself.


----------



## WannabeGood (Oct 24, 2007)

One more vote for the Agile. Because............

# High quality Spalted *Canadian* Maple Spalted Top (100% real wood top-not a photo top!)

Regards,


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

It's a hard call to make, because odds are you're not going to be able to try an Agile before you buy, unless you find a used one in a store somewhere, but the price difference alone is enough to sway me the Agile's way. The spec sheet on the Agile's seems so good that it's hard not to have faith in the company and just go with it. That, and the numerous strong reviews, make it pretty easy to buy with at least some confidence.

The last time I bought a guitar without playing it first, based solely on hype, was my CV Tele, which I absolutely adore and gets more playing time than my US Deluxe Strat lately.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

blink said:


> I think it all comes down to preference and trying to sway someone who already has made their choice is not really productive. Like telling a Ford person that a Chevy is way better , etc.
> 
> The opinion only becomes valuable when someone is asking for it as the OP did.
> 
> Peace, and Happy Holidays!



Ya I didn't want to come across as a jerk in my posts. It's just as you said though, when someone is asking for help, posting something that doesn't give an explanation isn't helping in any way. I was just upset because of the wording used (the clearly better part). Saying something like that and not backing it up with information doesn't help the thread, or the OP.

I think the Elitest are great guitars. But there are other great guitars, and a lot of great emerging guitar companies now. I don't believe in knocking a company just because you don't know much about them. 

One MAJOR factor in Rondo's low prices is, like a lot of new companies, they are using a new business model. They have no retailers or middle-man. The products are only advertised through word of mouth, and on their site. That reduces the end cost of a product a TON. If Fender and Epiphone were following that business model, their products would be way cheaper too. And it wouldn't reflect the quality of the product, it would reflect the fact that they are using a more cost effective business model.

The sweat shop labour and the ethics of it is another issue all together. But the major companies and Rondo are both making guitars in the same places now. And the Rondos are half the price of the standard Epis.


----------



## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> The sweat shop labour and the ethics of it is another issue all together.


Excellent point. Unfortunately, in todays society, most people are prepared to swallow that bitter pill for the sake of lower cost (hence the Walmart domination these days).

Once again, Merry Consumption Day everyone! :smile:


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

you guys appear to haev scared off the OP, or he's busy playing guitar


----------



## Hired Goon (Mar 4, 2008)

Nah man I've been following the thread, and I think I'm probably going to go with the Agile. I'm sure the Epi is good but I think only the one guy on here seems to think it's really better than the Agile. Most of the posts seem to be pro Agile, and the return policy seems flexible.


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Hired Goon said:


> Most of the posts seem to be pro Agile, and the return policy seems flexible.


That's the clincher, really. Even if your guitar seems to be sub-par compared to other Agiles, Rondo seems pretty good about replacing it. I was going to buy one this year with my x-mas bonus, except that with the whole economy going out of whack, it was smaller than last years kqoct


----------



## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

*A modest question...*

Have any of you who voted for one or the other of these guitars played both the Epiphone Elitist and the Agile 3100? Just curious.

I have not played either one, although from reading the Rondo webpage, the Agile 3100 has an incredible list of features for the price.

I have played one SX, an SJM 75, which was a solid ash body Jazz Master style, with twin P90's.

The neck was thick and chunky, just like I like it, the frets were perfect, and the tone was fat and bluesy.

The thick finish was not to my taste, but ymmv.


----------



## Drazden (Oct 26, 2007)

Well, I've got an Elitist Les Paul coming in the next few days (with any luck) so you guys are starting to make me nervous! I can sympathize with the OP's position, though--it's tough to not be able to test anything out before you have to lay your cash on the line. I think that's the biggest decision here--exactly how much money to risk on a guitar you can't play. Probably sticking to the lower cost is a better choice, especially when the feature set is so similar.

Still, though, in my experiences with the Elitists, I've never found them to be less than impeccably-finished, great-playing instruments, well worth the price and more. 

I'm actually choosing this Elitist over a Gibson Les Paul Classic--for literally half the price of a Classic, I'm getting a guitar with similar hardware, better tuners, (on paper) the same neck profile, better inlays, no weight chambers, long neck tenon, etc etc--the only thing I need to put into it aftermarket are the pickups, and I'd have to switch out the ones on the Gibbo anyway because they're only 2-conductor and I need coiltaps! --but I have never played an Agile. From cruising the Harmony Central forums as well as these ones, I've never heard a bad thing about the Agile, especially for the price. 

I've never been able to find where they're built, though? I've been super impressed with some of the stuff coming from China right now--the Ibanez artcore line, as well as some of the lower-end set-neck Epiphone stuff are just fantastic.

For me, though, when it came down to the wire and I had to choose between the $1100 Epiphone Elitist, the $500 Ibanez Artist and the $400 Epiphone China Les Paul Standard, I had to go with the Elitist. Because from what I know of the product, the Japanese Fujigen factory puts out not just some of the best-sounding, best-playing guitars around, they do it consistently enough I felt pretty darn confident putting my money on the table for one.

Just my thoughts. Good luck on your quest, Hired Goon! 

Oh--by the way, don't discount the Ibanez Artists, Epiphone standards, LTD EC series, Dillon, Tokai, and every other company that has a Les Paul clone around that you can actually get in your hands and play before you have to pay for it.


----------



## Gene Machine (Sep 22, 2007)

*+1 for agile*

Hi, i played my buddy's agile LP, and it's solid. he has two other agile axes, a tele and a MM axis type, both great gits. i would say better quality than epis. YMMV

there is however, a great deal of satisfaction in playng it first before dropping down some quid.

cheers and merry christmas

gene.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Hired Goon said:


> Have not tried either brand before. Specifically I'm looking at these:
> 
> http://www.rondomusic.com/product2121.html
> 
> ...


Keep leaning, you're leaning in the right direction.


----------

