# Delay pedal suggestion



## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Hi all,

I need you help to figure out the best delay for my use. Keep in mind, I am not a delay junky or heavy user at all but I like some flexibility.

I have a Boss DD-500 since 2-3 weeks now. This thing is awesome but I am only using analog and tape settings. Plus, I get lost and confuse with all the editing process. Linked to a computer, it's pretty easy but on the go, not so much. Kind of a waste since this thing can do everything.

My needs are pretty simple:
- I don't care if it's analog or digital.
- I don't really need tap tempo.
- 600 ms is good enough for me.
- I want control over certain parameters:
The basics: Delay time, mix, rengen or feedback.​Add to that what I would like to control:
-Tone; to get some flexibility over the repeat. From prestine to murky. Clear to dark.
-Modulation; I can get some slapback, reverb like or go full trippy.
-Expression control; I like self oscilation and sweel.​Am I better to keep the DD-500 even if I don't use it's full potential since it can do all the above or there's something else that can suits my needs without all the screens, numerous sub menus and parameters?

In the past I tried the following:

Malekko - Ekko 600D and Ekko 616 Dark. - Sounded good, nice modulation but no expression possibility and no tone control.
Maxon AD-9 Pro+ and AD-999 Pro - Sounded good too but no control over modulation or tone.
Boss DM-2W - One of my fave but like the Maxon, lacks the tone and mod contols.
EHX DMM - Sounded good, modulation is perfect but the preamp overload was a PITA with my Les Paul.
Diamond Memory Lane 2 - Sounded really good, modulation was perfect, checked all the boxes for me but this thing was too expensive to keep on the board and I was in need of money at the time.

Thanks for the help!


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## CathodeRay (Jan 12, 2018)

Ti-Ron said:


> EHX DMM - Sounded good, modulation is perfect but the* preamp overload* was a PITA with my Les Paul.


Pardon my ignorance Ti-Ron.
Preamp overload? Doesn't the Gain take care of O/P on the DMM? Or do you mean DMM's input overload?


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Ray Cathode said:


> Pardon my ignorance Ti-Ron.
> Preamp overload? Doesn't the Gain take care of O/P on the DMM? Or do you mean DMM's input overload?


I am not sure what is the right term, but I hated the fact that when playing with stronger signal, the DMM distorted. When playing clean with single coil, that was okay, even pleasant, but with distortion or fuzz and humbucker, totally unusable to me.


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## vokey design (Oct 24, 2006)

I would stick with the DD-500. I have it and also only use a few patches right now ... but sometimes I do want something funky or out of my norm and its there waiting for me. Dont forget it has a looper function too.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Try the strymon el capistan. Favourite switch means its a 2 in 1. You may prefer the tone over the dd500.

I went DL4-flashback X4-dd500-timeline-fx8 haha


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

I've been on a similar delay quest for a while, except that I wanted tap tempo and a bit longer delay times. Here are some of my thoughts.

*Belle Epoch Deluxe*
There is no "tone" control, but the mode you pick takes care of that with brighter tape, darker analog, and a DMM simulation in the middle. There are separate "record level" and "echo volume" controls that can adjust how gritty your repeats are, and perhaps that could take care of your issue with DMM distorting. The expression pedal in most modes emulates the "playback level" from the Echoplex. The "Echo Osc" button is actually just an alternate feedback setting you can adjust internally. From the factory it puts the pedal into oscillation, or you could adjust it to just ride the edge to infinite sustain, or dial it all the way back for just one repeat. There are some other modes that could be kind of fun to play around with too. And there's the EP Pre inside with an internal trimpot to adjust. The biggest drawbacks are the price and possibly the build quality since Howard left Catalinbread. It could be a good pedal for you, but ultimately it wasn't for me because it lacked a tap-tempo and the unit I bought had a defect with the expression pedal function.

*MXR Carbon Copy Deluxe & DOD Rubberneck*
I haven't played these, but heard some very good accounts. Either might be a good fit for your needs, but just be careful about the external pedal connections. The DOD has an input for a proprietary footswitch only, not an expression pedal. And with the MXR, the expression pedal cannot control the feedback or mix, only the delay time. The ability to control feedback/mix with expression on an all-analog pedal seems to be very hard to find.

*Strymon Brigadier/El Capistan*
Either you love them or hate them, but I fall into the "love them" camp. Compared with the big Timeline (or your Boss pedal), these are so much easier to use. An expression pedal can be used to control any combination of knobs you want in any direction. There are secondary functions on both to change the tone of the repeats. The external Fav switch @Budda mentioned is nice too, but you can't have that AND connect an expression pedal. The Brigadier seems to be less popular (even though it can reproduce a DMM very well) so you can sometimes find them for a pretty good price.

*Diamond Memory Lane Jr. / Counter Point / Memory Lane Dlx*
I'll agree, the Diamond stuff sounds great! I picked up a Counter Point pedal on sale and it was a great find. Lots of functionality, great sound, and very simple controls. The Memory Lane Jr. and Counter Point use the same kind of sampling/filtering technique where the raw sample is digital, but all the manipulation and filtering is analog. The various modes on the Counter Point suit my needs for a "darker" or "brighter" sound, and this is actually the pedal I'm sticking with because it sounds so good (along with a Boss DM-2w for slap & short delays). It looks like Diamond is also currently working on a new Deluxe version of the original Memory Lane, so perhaps that might also be worth waiting for.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Some years back, I asked members on the diystompbox forum about delays, and it seems that the 600-800msec zone is a kind of breakpoint. People who use delays for one sort of application (giving a sense of space) have little need for anything more than maybe 600-800msec. People who find 800msec insufficient have other applications in mind.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

I echo Vokey.

(pun intended)


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

Got the same sale as @troyhead for the Diamond Counterpoint. It rules for great but simple delay needs. Another vote for Diamond.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

You need to Meet Maude. 

Fairfield Circuitry Meet Maude Analogue Delay | Axe... And You Shall Receive






I have one and it's a seriously good delay.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

When you're looking at Diamond stuff son't lose sight of this one. Pretty awesome.

Diamond Pedals | QTL1 QUANTUM LEAP


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

The Dunlop Echoplex EP-3?


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

vokey design said:


> I would stick with the DD-500. I have it and also only use a few patches right now ... but sometimes I do want something funky or out of my norm and its there waiting for me. Dont forget it has a looper function too.


Yeah, I always forget about the looper.
I must give it more time to see how I can use it!


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Budda said:


> Try the strymon el capistan. Favourite switch means its a 2 in 1. You may prefer the tone over the dd500.
> 
> I went DL4-flashback X4-dd500-timeline-fx8 haha


I can see the fx8 as a great touring tool but I would totally freak out if I had to change parameters on the fly!


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Some years back, I asked members on the diystompbox forum about delays, and it seems that the 600-800msec zone is a kind of breakpoint. People who use delays for one sort of application (giving a sense of space) have little need for anything more than maybe 600-800msec. People who find 800msec insufficient have other applications in mind.


I found that 900 ms (When I had the maxon ad-999 pro) that it is not a "delay" anymore, at least, to me. Some cool ambient possibilites but nothing "rythmic" for the lack of words.


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

garrettdavis275 said:


> Got the same sale as @troyhead for the Diamond Counterpoint. It rules for great but simple delay needs. Another vote for Diamond.





davetcan said:


> When you're looking at Diamond stuff son't lose sight of this one. Pretty awesome.
> 
> Diamond Pedals | QTL1 QUANTUM LEAP


Since the Conterpoint hasn't any tone control, do you consider that the different mods can act as different delay tone?

Is there a way to put a exp pedal to them?


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

butterknucket said:


> The Dunlop Echoplex EP-3?


Oh, you touch something there! The "hidden" tone knob is really interessing!


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

sulphur said:


> You need to Meet Maude.
> 
> Fairfield Circuitry Meet Maude Analogue Delay | Axe... And You Shall Receive
> 
> ...


Is it dark?
I will be at Sonore festival in Montreal next month and Guillaume will be there too, I will try it for sure!


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Ti-Ron said:


> Oh, you touch something there! The "hidden" tone knob is really interessing!


It also has tap tempo, which you said was a requirement.


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

troyhead said:


> I've been on a similar delay quest for a while, except that I wanted tap tempo and a bit longer delay times. Here are some of my thoughts.
> 
> *Belle Epoch Deluxe*
> There is no "tone" control, but the mode you pick takes care of that with brighter tape, darker analog, and a DMM simulation in the middle. There are separate "record level" and "echo volume" controls that can adjust how gritty your repeats are, and perhaps that could take care of your issue with DMM distorting. The expression pedal in most modes emulates the "playback level" from the Echoplex. The "Echo Osc" button is actually just an alternate feedback setting you can adjust internally. From the factory it puts the pedal into oscillation, or you could adjust it to just ride the edge to infinite sustain, or dial it all the way back for just one repeat. There are some other modes that could be kind of fun to play around with too. And there's the EP Pre inside with an internal trimpot to adjust. The biggest drawbacks are the price and possibly the build quality since Howard left Catalinbread. It could be a good pedal for you, but ultimately it wasn't for me because it lacked a tap-tempo and the unit I bought had a defect with the expression pedal function.
> ...


WOW, thanks a lot for the very detailed answer!

I had looked at the Bell epoch in the past, liked it but I was afraid the internal preamp would do the same thing as the one in the DMM I had. Will check the deluxe!
The standard Carbon Copy didn't stick with me. Sounded really generic to me, I prefered the DM2W to it. The rubberneck looks like a strong contender.
Strymon pedals look nice, but when they came out, they were selling like hot cake and never had the chance to buy one. Things have changed since then, maybe I can scoop one on the used market.
Okay, everybody seems to like the counter point, this one is first on my list!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Ti-Ron said:


> I can see the fx8 as a great touring tool but I would totally freak out if I had to change parameters on the fly!


It's very easy. Also, I don't change anything on the fly. That's also why I'd put tape over the knobs of previous pedals - nothing needs to change. I may bump the volume on my OCD for the last song here and there.

I still don't really understand how to get the most out of the FX8 - I've just got it doing what I need it to do.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

Ti-Ron said:


> Since the Conterpoint hasn't any tone control, do you consider that the different mods can act as different delay tone?
> 
> Is there a way to put a exp pedal to them?


The Counterpoint has 4 modes with different tones that I would describe thusly:

*Analog *- Kind of a dark, not as dark as the DM-2w standard mode, probably a little closer to the custom mode on that pedal. Great sounding modulation.
*Galloping 8's* - This is the dotted eighth setting similar in tone to mode 1, with an added quieter tap on the straight eighth.
*Ambient *- Sounds more like a reverb. I don't really use this one because the mix feels relatively low, but I might if I didn't have a reverb pedal already.
*Faux tape* - Not really that tape-y to me, but it is a brighter sound than mode 1. The modulation is a bit different.
A couple of things to note, the mode selection switch is actually very easy to use with your foot. The modulation is also foot-switchable by holding down the Tap switch.

The biggest drawback is that there is no expression pedal input.  It's really too bad, because the near-infinite and oscillation sounds are awesome (again, all the filtering is analog and it sounds sweet!). I would have liked expression control too. I wanted to get some over-the-top and also more mild sounds from the same pedal, so started looking for one with presets. But then thought of the magical solution of using the small (and very nice sounding) DM-2w for subtle/slap sounds, and then leave mix & feedback high on the Counterpoint.



Ti-Ron said:


> I had looked at the Bell epoch in the past, liked it but I was afraid the internal preamp would do the same thing as the one in the DMM I had. Will check the deluxe!


The other modes on the Belle Epoch Deluxe are pretty cool beyond just the tape mode, and the expression control along with the dedicated Echo Oscillation (or alternate feedback, as I like to call it) might be what you are looking for. If you can try it in-store or order from somewhere that has an excellent return policy, you might find a fun delay. Catalinbread's Youtube channel has some great demos. If you've got some time, here's a couple good ones to get you started:


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Ti-Ron said:


> The "hidden" tone knob is really interessing!


wha? Where? Huhhh?!? I know about the tape age, wet/dry & trails, but Hidden Tone?


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

bzrkrage said:


> wha? Where? Huhhh?!? I know about the tape age, wet/dry & trails, but Hidden Tone?


If you push the Volume knob, it ages the sound of your repeats/darken the tone.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Ti-Ron said:


> Is it dark?
> I will be at Sonore festival in Montreal next month and Guillaume will be there too, I will try it for sure!


It cn be with the tone knob, or brighter if you wish.


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## gitapik (Aug 5, 2016)

I've got an El Capistan that will probably never leave my board. I opted for the favorite switch over the expression pedal. Only downside to that is that the trails only work when turning off the unit entirely; not when you switch between the two presets. But that's ok for me and 95% of my needs.

There are a lot of wonderful things you can do with El Cap, but for me the most important thing is the way that the original signal will still come through clear as a bell, regardless of the repeat volume. My basic, short echo sound that's on my favorite switch preset is set like a brand new, clean tape. I get into the more off the wall stuff with the main unit. 

I used to have a Roland Space Echo, long ago. I often wished I could keep some of the sounds of the tape as it degraded. El Cap does that, if you want. It's a great delay pedal if you're into tape delay.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

You could probably find an empress superdelay cheaper these days. I've had it on my board for at least 6 years now and it checks all your boxes. .

Instead of a tone knob it has a a hi-pass, flat and low-pass switch for the repeats. The internal preamp sounds really good with a level control than can cut or really boost if you want. Save up to 8 presets, but always goes back to the last one used when fired up. Easy to adjust on the fly. Tap tempo if you want it. 

But if you like using an expression pedal it is switchable to control repeats or mix level which is awesome Imo. It was the delay to have 6 or 7 years ago lol. 

Sent from my H3223 using Tapatalk


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

IIRC those superdelays are still $325 or so on the used market. I think I sold mine here for $300. 

Empress has their regular tape delay as well!


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## gitapik (Aug 5, 2016)

Budda said:


> IIRC those superdelays are still $325 or so on the used market. I think I sold mine here for $300.
> 
> Empress has their regular tape delay as well!


I did a side by side by side with both those Empress pedals and El Cap. Great store nearby had them all. I ended up liking the slightly darker basic tone of El Cap but it wasn’t really that big a factor. It basically came down to flipping a coin. They’re all excellent units.


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## CDWaterloo (Jul 18, 2008)

I use Boss DD500, but I like to tweak delay pedals. I find this especially useful for recording guitars. If you want a nice sounding, flexible but simple delay pedal, I think Source Audio's Nemesis Delay is one of the best options.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

@Ti-Ron if you want to feel overwhelmed, head to www.effectsdatabase.com and browse the delay section.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

I came pretty close to getting this one too. I think it has everything you are looking for and then some. But also not cheap. Electric Mojo Guitars has one in stock. 

https://www.stonedeaffx.com/syncopy


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

I was just at L&M yesterday and the super delay was 599.99! Unreal. 

Sent from my H3223 using Tapatalk


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

gitapik said:


> I've got an El Capistan that will probably never leave my board. I opted for the favorite switch over the expression pedal. Only downside to that is that the trails only work when turning off the unit entirely; not when you switch between the two presets. But that's ok for me and 95% of my needs.
> 
> There are a lot of wonderful things you can do with El Cap, but for me the most important thing is the way that the original signal will still come through clear as a bell, regardless of the repeat volume. My basic, short echo sound that's on my favorite switch preset is set like a brand new, clean tape. I get into the more off the wall stuff with the main unit.
> 
> I used to have a Roland Space Echo, long ago. I often wished I could keep some of the sounds of the tape as it degraded. El Cap does that, if you want. It's a great delay pedal if you're into tape delay.


The El Cap is on my list since day one but they seem to sell too fast! I'll have to work harder to hunt one on the used market.



TheYanChamp said:


> You could probably find an empress superdelay cheaper these days. I've had it on my board for at least 6 years now and it checks all your boxes. .
> 
> Instead of a tone knob it has a a hi-pass, flat and low-pass switch for the repeats. The internal preamp sounds really good with a level control than can cut or really boost if you want. Save up to 8 presets, but always goes back to the last one used when fired up. Easy to adjust on the fly. Tap tempo if you want it.
> 
> ...


The smaller one, Tape Delay I think, seem more up to my alley. I'll have a look on this one. Thanks.



Budda said:


> IIRC those superdelays are still $325 or so on the used market. I think I sold mine here for $300.
> 
> Empress has their regular tape delay as well!


Damn, they keep their value!



gitapik said:


> I did a side by side by side with both those Empress pedals and El Cap. Great store nearby had them all. I ended up liking the slightly darker basic tone of El Cap but it wasn’t really that big a factor. It basically came down to flipping a coin. They’re all excellent units.





CDWaterloo said:


> I use Boss DD500, but I like to tweak delay pedals. I find this especially useful for recording guitars. If you want a nice sounding, flexible but simple delay pedal, I think Source Audio's Nemesis Delay is one of the best options.


Yeah, it's probably the main use for the DD500, a swiss knife for studio works!



Budda said:


> @Ti-Ron if you want to feel overwhelmed, head to www.effectsdatabase.com and browse the delay section.


I am already overwhelmed by this thread alone! 



troyhead said:


> I came pretty close to getting this one too. I think it has everything you are looking for and then some. But also not cheap. Electric Mojo Guitars has one in stock.
> 
> https://www.stonedeaffx.com/syncopy


Holly Molly, this is perfect! Except of the price!



TheYanChamp said:


> I was just at L&M yesterday and the super delay was 599.99! Unreal.
> 
> Sent from my H3223 using Tapatalk


Way too much for my wallet! At 315$ used for the DD500, this was already my limit!


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

I doubt they sell many at that price point. I think I payed $420 for mine when our dollar was at par with the greenback. 

Sent from my H3223 using Tapatalk


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

I've had a number of delay pedals over the years and I got rid of them all.
The only one I ever kept (and still have) is the MOOG MF-Delay.
Warm analogue delay with simple controls and no glitchiness.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

One of my faves for size/flexibility/tone balance is the old TC NovaDelay. Small footprint, 10 presets, lots of variety, you can even set input sensitivity - but requires a 12 volt supply (I think). Fairly cheap used these days, but alas no exp pedal input. I wished it had one.


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## Dg87 (Oct 22, 2016)

Anybody has experience with both the Quantum Leap and the Counterpoint and would like to share their experience?


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## vokey design (Oct 24, 2006)

@Ti-Ron what did you end up with, or is the search still on?


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Oh, sorry, I totally forgot to update the thread!

I ended up with a Diamond Memory Lane Junior. The price was good and the thing sounds fabulous without being over complicated.

To me, a pedal is a great when it is sounds good but also if the design/layout is easy and intuitive. The mljr thicks all the boxes.

The modulation sits perfectly without being over the top. I like the trail fonction and the 4 differents modes.

I still need to get used to tap tempo but otherwise that little grey box is perfect!


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

ML JR is a great pedal. Really looking forward to the ML DLX. Apparently coming spring of 2019


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## gitapik (Aug 5, 2016)

Ti-Ron said:


> Oh, sorry, I totally forgot to update the thread!
> 
> I ended up with a Diamond Memory Lane Junior. The price was good and the thing sounds fabulous without being over complicated.
> 
> ...



That's funny. I got one off of craigslist recently as a second delay for one of my boards and a standalone for my Quilter. I couldn't be happier. Was going to chime in again but you beat me to it!

I'm with you: simple with a very, very nice sound and presence. 

Congrats!


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## Boogyin1979 (May 14, 2018)

troyhead said:


> I've been on a similar delay quest for a while, except that I wanted tap tempo and a bit longer delay times. Here are some of my thoughts.
> 
> *Belle Epoch Deluxe*
> There is no "tone" control, but the mode you pick takes care of that with brighter tape, darker analog, and a DMM simulation in the middle. There are separate "record level" and "echo volume" controls that can adjust how gritty your repeats are, and perhaps that could take care of your issue with DMM distorting. The expression pedal in most modes emulates the "playback level" from the Echoplex. The "Echo Osc" button is actually just an alternate feedback setting you can adjust internally. From the factory it puts the pedal into oscillation, or you could adjust it to just ride the edge to infinite sustain, or dial it all the way back for just one repeat. There are some other modes that could be kind of fun to play around with too. And there's the EP Pre inside with an internal trimpot to adjust. The biggest drawbacks are the price and possibly the build quality since Howard left Catalinbread. It could be a good pedal for you, but ultimately it wasn't for me because it lacked a tap-tempo and the unit I bought had a defect with the expression pedal function.
> ...


+1 on the Belle Epoch Deluxe. Super-Fantastic.


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## vokey design (Oct 24, 2006)

Boogyin1979 said:


> +1 on the Belle Epoch Deluxe. Super-Fantastic.


+2 just picked one up on Friday, beautiful sounding echo.


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