# Why Would You Want To Spend Three Or Four Times As Much For The Same Quality?



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Ibanez AG-95 hollow body guitar.


Comments from experienced musicians who have had the "other" competitive models have classed this as equal or better than them, so why pay $2000.00-3500.00 for something that's no better? Click on the link below for the reviews.


Ibanez AG95 Electric Guitar | Musician's Friend


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Not sure Musicians Friend is a reliable source of what to buy, but I am open to all feedback myself


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Only one reason I can think of....
The Gibby will be worth alot more in 20 years if you still have it.
This is a very nice looking instrument, I must say.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Not sure Musicians Friend is a reliable source of what to buy, but I am open to all feedback myself


For me, it's just a source of good information because they carry more items than just about any other online supplier. Plus their website is very user friendly. Sometimes they have some real good deals, especially for those of us that are close to the USA border. Last week you could have got this for 15% off or $600.00 - $90.00=$510.00 with free shipping to Buffalo and no tax although you would likely have to pay the HST when you came across the border unless you stayed overnight and brought it back as part of the duty free that's allowed.


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

I guess this is one of those cork sniffing moments for me, because I would never buy another ibanez. Their acoustics are the equivalent of sparkly poop, and the two electrics i've owned have been crippled by cheap hardware. Albeit it's hard to go too far wrong with tune-o-matic bridges, and even gibson laminates their hollowbody guitars as far as I know. That specific model looks like it would be a good instrument. one thing I can definitely say about ibanez is that their products are not lacking in comfort or visual appeal...it's the functionality and sound output that have put me off the brand.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

loudtubeamps said:


> Only one reason I can think of....
> The Gibby will be worth alot more in 20 years if you still have it.
> This is a very nice looking instrument, I must say.


Will you be alive in 20 years? What if you invested the extra $1500.00 for 20 years? 98% of people who buy a new guitar don't buy it for collecting, they buy it to play. I'm a player. If I'm going to invest in something to make money it will be property, diamonds or gold/silver. That's where you can make real money if that is why you buy guitars. If you invested $2500.00 in gold 10 years ago, you would have made $30,000.00 on it by now. If you're buying guitars as a collector that's not making money, that's spending it. Regards, Steadfastly


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

mike_oxbig said:


> I guess this is one of those cork sniffing moments for me, because I would never buy another ibanez. Their acoustics are the equivalent of sparkly poop, and the two electrics i've owned have been crippled by cheap hardware. Albeit it's hard to go too far wrong with tune-o-matic bridges, and even gibson laminates their hollowbody guitars as far as I know. That specific model looks like it would be a good instrument. one thing I can definitely say about ibanez is that their products are not lacking in comfort or visual appeal...it's the functionality and sound output that have put me off the brand.


The acoustics are not what I'm discussing here or their cheap guitars. Granted, their acoustics are worth about what you pay for them.

The Artcore series are world renowned for their quality at very affordable prices. Of all the reviews I've read about them praise them with exceptions non-existent for very difficult to find. Owning one myself, I have to agree.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

http://www.guitarscanada.com/electric-guitar/48895-new-guitar-day.html

lofu


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

It's $4 cheaper at L&M. 

Long & McQuade - Ibanez AG95DBS Artcore - Dark Brown Sunburst


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

I have owned guitars at both ends of the spectrum, Heritage and Ibanez (and also Peerless), for extended periods of time. Not exact specs, but rather similar. Even though it is hard to put a dollar value, there is really no comparison. I really do not care if people raising questions like these want to accept it or not, but in my particular experience the Heritages are simply at a different level.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Thats a beautiful looking Ibanez, but how well could it hold up to a real beating?..........


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Steadfastly said:


> The acoustics are not what I'm discussing here or their cheap guitars. Granted, their acoustics are worth about what you pay for them.
> 
> The Artcore series are world renowned for their quality at very affordable prices. Of all the reviews I've read about them praise them with exceptions non-existent for very difficult to find. Owning one myself, I have to agree.


The ibanez acoustic i owned was within 100$ of that price, and the electrics I've owned were more expensive. Not saying price always reflects quality, but once bitten twice shy...like I said that's a beautiful looking guitar with different hardware than that which made me disgruntled with the other ibanez electrics I owned, so i would imagine i'd have less quarrels with it, I just have a bad impression about ibanez guitars from my experience with them. beautiful guitars that were meant to be hung on the wall was my verdict. I'm not trying to convince you that your guitar isn't good, i'm just telling you why I personally would spend an extra couple hundred dollars on a similar guitar from a different brand.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

GONE


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

All the guitars I've owned have been in the $450 to $600 - used or trade value. Since I work in social services, I will always be somewhat financially challenged. I also play rarely outside of th apartment. So I have to justify what I spend and look for best value for the money. I just got an AG95 on a trade last week for a guitar valued at $500. So far, it seems to be worth at least every penny in sound and playability. It's going to Gene at Lil Demon for a setup with 12 flats. then I will be able to judge it better. (Gene used to be at the shop at Danforth Rd an Danforth Ave in Toronto)


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Steadfastly said:


> Will you be alive in 20 years? What if you invested the extra $1500.00 for 20 years? 98% of people who buy a new guitar don't buy it for collecting, they buy it to play. I'm a player. If I'm going to invest in something to make money it will be property, diamonds or gold/silver. That's where you can make real money if that is why you buy guitars. If you invested $2500.00 in gold 10 years ago, you would have made $30,000.00 on it by now. If you're buying guitars as a collector that's not making money, that's spending it. Regards, Steadfastly


Have you looked at the price of (in their day) $100.00 Les Paul juniors or $600.00 3 bolt Strats lately?
Alot lighter to cart around as well.
If you kick off , you can always leave them to your family or friends or......I'll send you my shipping address.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Robert1950 said:


> It's $4 cheaper at L&M.
> 
> Long & McQuade - Ibanez AG95DBS Artcore - Dark Brown Sunburst



Yes, but I can get another 15% off at MF and I'm 15 minutes from the border. That makes it $510.00. I doubt L & M would match the price.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Yes, but I can get another 15% off at MF and I'm 15 minutes from the border. That makes it $510.00. I doubt L & M would match the price.


I believe they will still charge you 6% duty because it is not made anywhere Canada has a free trade agreement with. That adds another $30.60. So I guess you are still winning out by $50.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Unless you're headed south of the border for other reasons, factor in the gas and your time too.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Late 70's models where well made and still a few of them command a good price. Not sure these will hold there own in a few years. It is a good looking instrument though.


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

sulphur said:


> Unless you're headed south of the border for other reasons, factor in the gas and your time too.


Exactly... and if the savings are marginal, why wouldn't one support a Canadian retailer rather than a US one?


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Money doesn't dictate whether or not I like something, just whether or not I can afford something. I have some corksniffer guitars, flattops from a couple of builders, that had what I wanted and the price wasn't negotiable and availability limited to what that builder produced. Either I bought them or I did without. At the time I had the means and opportunity so I did the deed. These are more expensive then the stuff I list below, but they were also a personal and professional priority. Compared to today's prices, I did pretty good.

Likewise, some Ibanez, Fender Protone MIJ Fenders, Godin, Dobro, and GoldTone instruments were within my means and I liked them so I did the deed. They were way cheaper than the flattops but they are great instruments by most reasonable standards of comparison.

Besides my instruments, I live a fairly frugal existence, and I like it that way.

Anyone remember Lonesome Charlie, or Old Sailor?

Peace, Mooh.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

I have had a few Artcores. Nice guitars. I've said it before and I'll say it again...they are somewhat toy-like in comparison to more robust guitars of that style and their pickups aren't great.

To me, if I had the money and I was in the market for a semi-hollow, I'd get the Gibson. It is higher quality than the Ibanez IMO and worth it (if I had 'it').


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

sulphur said:


> Unless you're headed south of the border for other reasons, factor in the gas and your time too.


I go every couple of weeks to get gas and dairy products. I usually save around $80.00 per trip just for that.



> I believe they will still charge you 6% duty because it is not made anywhere Canada has a free trade agreement with. That adds another $30.60. So I guess you are still winning out by $50.


There is no duty on them. I've brought them across before. It's just 13% HST unless I get a person in a real good mood and sometimes they'll let you go.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

smorgdonkey said:


> I have had a few Artcores. Nice guitars. I've said it before and I'll say it again...they are somewhat toy-like in comparison to more robust guitars of that style and their pickups aren't great.
> 
> To me, if I had the money and I was in the market for a semi-hollow, I'd get the Gibson. It is higher quality than the Ibanez IMO and worth it (if I had 'it').



Your opinion. You're entitled to it.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

starjag said:


> Exactly... and if the savings are marginal, why wouldn't one support a Canadian retailer rather than a US one?


That, and the fact that a warranty claim would be out of the question if the neck went wonky or something .


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> Your opinion. You're entitled to it.


Yes...and you don't have to post telling me so 

*but since you are so F'ing condescending, you probably believe that you do. *


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> I go every couple of weeks to get gas and dairy products. I usually save around $80.00 per trip just for that.
> 
> 
> .


 Really ? Of all the things I would consider buying in the US,dairy would not be on the list .


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

^^^^
... and if you feel like posting in this thread again, please do so... if you feel like it that is. And specially if you can rationalize the dollar value of all dimensions of "quality."


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I can't even entertain the idea of a guitar that costs 4x more. So I have to consider the lesser priced alternatives. So far, I feel I have made good choices for the money.  Would I sell off 4 guitars valued at $500 each for a $2000 one? Giving up a strat, a semi-hollow, a jazz box and an LP alternative for a single guitar? I don't think I'd want to give up the diversity of sounds. Besides, my strat is at least 90% of any custom shop I've tried. And I don't have the desire to get sucked into the law of diminished returns, especially when I can't afford it.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

So a guy asks for a simple opinion from his fellow musicians, and a schittstorm starts brewing, I had to double check what site I was on...all good, no men with porn stars as avatars, had me going for a minute though.


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

Not sure I'm buyin' that entirely, Jimmy D - sorta came across as like being told Shawn Lane is the greatest guitar player of all time, and anyone with a differing opinion is obviously wrong... 

Apparently there are no better guitars than the Ibanez - even if you're willing to pay thousands more.



> so why pay $2000.00-3500.00 for something that's no better?


"no better" sorta eliminates any request for opinions in my books, since there's not really any wiggle room there. Not sure if this opinion makes me a corksniffer or not (I currently own PRS, Fender, Martin, Godin & St. Blues)


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Jimmy_D said:


> So a guy asks for a simple opinion from his fellow musicians, and a schittstorm starts brewing, I had to double check what site I was on...all good, no men with porn stars as avatars, had me going for a minute though.


There is really only one dude on here that is like that. Every time there is a thread even hinting that Gibson is not the be all and end all of all guitars, he jumps on it. Some people just don't realize that other nations have caught up to North American companies in terms of quality guitar manufacturing. It took decades for people to come around in the auto industry to admit that Japan made every bit as good an automobile and sometimes better than North American cars. I guess it shouldn't surprise us that the same thing would happen in the guitar industry.

I should just ignore him rather than respond to his obvious angry tirades. Regards, Steadfastly


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)




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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

sulphur said:


>


Sulphur: You don't want to know what my wine book says about cork sniffing! Let me just suffice not to do this in a restaurant unless you want the staff laughing at you out in the kitchen.









If you ever come to St. Catharines, PM me and I'll take you on one of the wine tours in the region if you like wine, that is. Some of the tours are really worth it. I didn't know there was so much to know even about drinking wine that even makes it taste better. Regards, Steadfastly


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> There is really only one dude on here that is like that. Every time there is a thread even hinting that Gibson is not the be all and end all of all guitars, he jumps on it.


Your entire premise is to condescend to someone who buys an expensive guitar. It is so thinly veiled as to be transparent.
I mentioned Gibson but there are plenty of guitars that fit the bill...Hamer makes amazing hollows that blow the Ibanez into smithereens. Heritage also does the same. 

You read my post.

I said 'if I had the money, I would buy X'.
Even the inept can glean from that, that one has a budget to adhere to first and perhaps beyond that they can glean that one should buy what one can afford.

Your 'problem' with me is that I call you on your BS (let me mention the thread again that you never admitted that you were wrong about after lying to someone about who made a certain guitar).



Jimmy_D said:


> So a guy asks for a simple opinion from his fellow musicians, and a schittstorm starts brewing, I had to double check what site I was on...all good, no men with porn stars as avatars, had me going for a minute though.


Hey, why don't you pop over there...he posts the exact threads there as he does here - he must feel better about spreading the condescending word that way (greater numbers perhaps?).

I posted this (in part) to him regarding his 'thoughts' in his identical theread over there:
*"...you are though, in your own habitual way, condescending to people and in essence calling them stupid if they buy a more expensive guitar.

True. That's how you roll."*

To which, he replied with this: "Funny, I thought you were doing this when you post your sanctimonious comments about how wise and intuitive you are with your guitar knowledge and purchases. Anyone that doesn't agree with your admiration of Gibson guitars you try and put down and having less insight than you do. Regards, Steadfastly"

He's just angry...and the worst part of it is that it seems like it is as childish as maybe he can't spend X so he craps on people who do.

*EDIT* and after reading his last post (above) it seems he is as proficient with wine as he is with whine.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

Have you ever just picked up a nice looking guitar, and it felt cheaply made, and you put it back without playing it..I have did this a few times .. I once pick up a 800.00 Gretsch made in Korea, and it just didn't feel right, it felt like one person said toy like.
Then i pick up a Gretsch white Falcon 4x the price and it felt solid, and very high quality like it should.
There are alot of pretty nice looking guitars out there but that's just a small part of it.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Lets not bring Hamer into this, they are wayyyy out of Ibanezes league...........


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

It upsets me when there's arguing that i'm not involved in


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Rick31797 said:


> Have you ever just picked up a nice looking guitar, and it felt cheaply made, and you put it back without playing it..I have did this a few times .. I once pick up a 800.00 Gretsch made in Korea, and it just didn't feel right, it felt like one person said toy like.
> Then i pick up a Gretsch white Falcon 4x the price and it felt solid, and very high quality like it should.
> There are alot of pretty nice looking guitars out there but that's just a small part of it.


Yup..been there.
I was in awe when I had the chance to own one of these.
Years ago I bought this really weird guitar($350.00 as I recall) that you could only play standing because of the body shape.
It was made by Gibson in the 60's, I think.
Anyway, I used it for a few months but really did not like it much.
The neck felt like a 2x4 and it just didn't work for me so I sold it to someone (for $350.00)who hopefully appreciated the guitar more than me. 
Price and brand name can sometimes sway your judgment call.
sigiifa


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

mike_oxbig said:


> It upsets me when there's arguing that i'm not involved in


Good point, Mike. I appoint you to get wired in for the rest of us who don't really have an axe to grind in this discussion!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Rick31797 said:


> Have you ever just picked up a nice looking guitar, and it felt cheaply made, and you put it back without playing it..I have did this a few times .. I once pick up a 800.00 Gretsch made in Korea, and it just didn't feel right, it felt like one person said toy like.
> Then i pick up a Gretsch white Falcon 4x the price and it felt solid, and very high quality like it should.
> There are alot of pretty nice looking guitars out there but that's just a small part of it.


I did that with the Godin 5th Avenue but I played it a little and started having second thoughts about whether it felt cheap or just extra light compared to the competitors guitars. Anyway, I put it back and then a couple years later, I picked up another one. This time it felt right. Maybe it was just the mood I was in the first day???


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Accept2 said:


> Lets not bring Hamer into this, they are wayyyy out of Ibanezes league...........


Yes, we can. They make fine guitars. So do Gibson. Are they wayyyy out of Ibanezes league? They are about 4-5 times the price. Are they 4-5 times better? I would like you to tell me why they are wayyyy better, for if there is a reason, I would like to know what it is since production guitars are all pretty much made the same way these days.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

smorgdonkey said:


> He's just angry...and the worst part of it is that it seems like it is as childish as maybe he can't spend X so he craps on people who do.


Nope, not angry. Frankly, your posts make me smile when I see you speculating about my views and others about guitars if they don't agree with yours. 

Just to let you know, I've made over 6 figures in the last couple of years and have virtually no bills. Not to brag but you've tried to make this point a couple of times on the forum even though, you have no idea of my income, so to let you know, I can afford expensive guitars if I wish. So far, I have not seen the need. Some do see that need for various reasons. Obviously, you think you have good reasons for certain brand names on the head stocks.

I hope you continue to enjoy your guitar playing and the forum. Regards, Steadfastly


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## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

So other than the guy's name on it, what makes this Ibanez worth $2500 more than the one that started the thread? Ibanez GB10 George Benson Hollowbody Electric | Musician's Friend


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## Guest (May 18, 2012)

Steadfastly said:


> If you ever come to St. Catharines, PM me and I'll take you on one of the wine tours in the region if you like wine, that is. Some of the tours are really worth it. I didn't know there was so much to know even about drinking wine that even makes it taste better. Regards, Steadfastly


We've been wanting to hit that route (got family in St. Catharines).
Maybe we'll meet in the middle someday.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

The trick to buying a Hamer, is to buy used.

This was around $1200 shipped...


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

sulphur said:


> The trick to buying a Hamer, is to buy used.
> 
> This was around $1200 shipped...


We'll need undisputable proof that this one is 3x better than the $400 Ibanez!!!


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

This has grown quickly

Any way--I did consider an AG95 a few years ago when I bought my AF95
The bubinga looks great and I did like it, but the AF95 is an inch wider--and it makes a difference int he sound, and I liked the AF95 sound better.
But I wouldn't put anybody down for buying the AG95.

Next--how much you spend will depend on what you can afford, and what you're using it for.

I play at home for fun, so for me to buy a Gibson doesn't make sense.
I have played some higher end archtops, and they're quite nice.

But the AF95 suits me, I like the sound, I like the way it plays, and it looks cool too.

Some of the comments were on semi hollows, bu as the AG95 and AF95 are full hollows--I stick with those for discussion.

If I did have the cash to buy a Gibson or one of the boutique archtops--I might, but part of me would be against it--unless I made my living playing guitar, or an archtop was my dream guitar.

For most of my years I didn't like archtops, had no desire for one, but gradually over time I came to like them--especially when I was out guitar shopping before I bought my AF 95.

Any way--here's my AF95, for those who haven't seen it or forgot about it.

Not expensive, plays well, sounds great for what I'm doing with it any way.
And while not a bubinga body--it's still a beautiful look...


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## FrankyNoTone (Feb 27, 2012)

washburned said:


> So other than the guy's name on it, what makes this Ibanez worth $2500 more than the one that started the thread? Ibanez GB10 George Benson Hollowbody Electric | Musician's Friend


Don't know, but I guess if this George Benson character isn't playing one of those Gibson/Hamer/Heritage guitars that blow away Ibanez's then he clearly doesn't know anything about guitars


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

But that Benson sig is as much as some of the others mentioned.

Tony Bennetts guitarist Gray Sargent uses a Godin, doesn't he?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

zontar said:


> This has grown quickly
> 
> Any way--I did consider an AG95 a few years ago when I bought my AF95
> The bubinga looks great and I did like it, but the AF95 is an inch wider--and it makes a difference int he sound, and I liked the AF95 sound better.
> ...


That one's very nice too. I didn't realize the difference in the body sizes. I can see how that would make a difference in the sound.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> Nope, not angry. Frankly, your posts make me smile when I see you speculating about my views and others about guitars if they don't agree with yours.


I don't know what posts you are talking about as I don't 'speculate about your views and others about guitars'. Good one though. Really good.

As for your income...why would you drive to the USA to buy gas & milk to save $80 in 2 weeks if you made that much?

Should someone start a post "Why would you want to drive 3 to 4 times as far to save $80?"?

One thing that you did really well in that post though - it's what you do well with all of the time - condescend.


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

smorgdonkey said:


> As for your income...why would you drive to the USA to buy gas & milk to save $80 in 2 weeks if you made that much?


I think I have an unbiased answer for this question


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

Sorry to interrupt the pi$$ing match, boys,LOL, but to get back on topic...I just bought my first Ibanez, a 1989 AM400. I have owned just about every flavour of the top brand-name guitars (Gibson, Fender, PRS, etc.) over the last 45 years (and still have a few of them) and all I can say is that this Ibanez takes a back seat to none of them. It, in fact, has become my go-to guitar on stage. Maybe the 70's and 80's Ibanez's are better, I don't know, but the fit, finish, tone and playability of this guitar are exceptional. I picked it up for $900 because the AM series guitars are considered "collectable" and rarely come up for sale, but I now consider that a steal. Just my 2 cents.

BD


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

Big_Daddy said:


> Sorry to interrupt the pi$$ing match, boys,LOL, but to get back on topic...I just bought my first Ibanez, a 1989 AM400. I have owned just about every flavour of the top brand-name guitars (Gibson, Fender, PRS, etc.) over the last 45 years (and still have a few of them) and all I can say is that this Ibanez takes a back seat to none of them. It, in fact, has become my go-to guitar on stage. Maybe the 70's and 80's Ibanez's are better, I don't know, but the fit, finish, tone and playability of this guitar are exceptional. I picked it up for $900 because the AM series guitars are considered "collectable" and rarely come up for sale, but I now consider that a steal. Just my 2 cents.


Those Ibanez hollow and semi-hollow pieces from the 70s and 80s appear be something else indeed! Congrats!


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

> , I've made over 6 figures in the last couple of years and have virtually no bills.




The big question in my mind is , How does a window washer make 6 figure income, and who's windows is he washing.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

GONE


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I was reading an article last night that cross boarder shopping is costing Canada $20 billion a year and is expected to get much higher in the coming years. There still appears to be a gap in pricing even though the dollar has been pretty much equal for 4 years


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I was reading an article last night that cross boarder shopping is costing Canada $20 billion a year and is expected to get much higher in the coming years. There still appears to be a gap in pricing even though the dollar has been pretty much equal for 4 years


A lot this has to do with the volume buying power of US chains I've heard. That puts them in a better postion to bully for lower prices.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Robert1950 said:


> A lot this has to do with the volume buying power of US chains I've heard. That puts them in a better postion to bully for lower prices.


I think in some cases that is most likely true.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

I dont think cross border shopping is worth the drive ..I do cross border shopping by way of Ebay. You can get good buys on small items.. Like a simple fuel filter for my lawn tractor, 2 for 8.00 Total ...... Canada tire 9.99 plus tax for 1... air cleaner CTC 29.00 plus tax Ebay 8.46 plus 4.60 shipping 
and it comes to my door..
I have bought Guitars off ebay, but only ones that are hard to get.., but too buy a passport and drive two hrs to Watertown and back or Rochester ( house of Guitars ), i dont think you save much,, if i did the trip it would be more then just going to buy something and come home.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

> _A lot this has to do with the volume buying power of US chains I've heard. That puts them in a better postion to bully for lower prices._


Thats why in Most cases Walmart has such good prices, huge buying power..


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

The best way to get good deals on guitars is to befriend store owners lol

I'm getting a brand new solid wood 12 string for 150$ because it came with a defective bridge....plus he's gonna install the new bridge for me so long as i go buy it from the folklore center.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

I know a guy that went into a Pawnshop and seen a 12 string guitar ( Cort ) for 200.00, He plugged it into the amp and it wouldn't work, the sales guy says give me 100.00, the guy says i will give you 75.00 for it, " sold " he was telling me about it, and he didnt realize it takes a battery too run it and that's all it needed.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Rick31797 said:


> I dont think cross border shopping is worth the drive ..I do cross border shopping by way of Ebay. You can get good buys on small items.. Like a simple fuel filter for my lawn tractor, 2 for 8.00 Total ...... Canada tire 9.99 plus tax for 1... air cleaner CTC 29.00 plus tax Ebay 8.46 plus 4.60 shipping
> and it comes to my door..
> I have bought Guitars off ebay, but only ones that are hard to get.., but too buy a passport and drive two hrs to Watertown and back or Rochester ( house of Guitars ), i dont think you save much,, if i did the trip it would be more then just going to buy something and come home.


For where you live, I would have to agree with you. You are just too far away. But if you were having to drive to Cornwall anyway, that's a different story.

Where I live, people go across the border all the time because it's worth it. I've met several of my friends while getting gas or groceries while I've been there.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

mike_oxbig said:


> The best way to get good deals on guitars is to befriend store owners lol
> 
> I'm getting a brand new solid wood 12 string for 150$ because it came with a defective bridge....plus he's gonna install the new bridge for me so long as i go buy it from the folklore center.



Mike: You may be buying us our guitars from now on!:rockon2:


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Rick31797 said:


> The big question in my mind is , How does a window washer make 6 figure income, and who's windows is he washing.


I could tell you but then I'd have to kill ya and I hate violence. I just wish I played guitar as well as I can clean windows. Ah well.......if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride, my Mom always told me. Regards to you Rick.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> That one's very nice too. I didn't realize the difference in the body sizes. I can see how that would make a difference in the sound.


Hey, the AG95 is still a real nice guitar and I almost bought one...

I wouldn't turn down one if I got one as a gift or prize (as long as no unethical strings were attached)


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## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I was reading an article last night that cross boarder shopping is costing Canada $20 billion a year and is expected to get much higher in the coming years. There still appears to be a gap in pricing even though the dollar has been pretty much equal for 4 years





Robert1950 said:


> A lot this has to do with the volume buying power of US chains I've heard. That puts them in a better postion to bully for lower prices.


I don't think it's that simple. Data regarding the average differences in cost of goods to consumers in the US and Canada is available, some the reasons for these differences are simple, some quite nuanced. This deserves a separate thread, but it's a difficult discussion to have without getting into some heavy politics. 

As far as the OP's question:
"Why Would You Want To Spend Three Or Four Times As Much For The Same Quality?"
which is loaded with several very debatable assumptions: 
among the many answers - because it makes me feel good.


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## mrfiftyfour (Jun 29, 2008)

To get back on topic and stir the pot a little...
There is no Artcore or and other similar priced guitar that could hold a candle to the higher priced Ibanez, Gibson, Gretch, D'Angelico or Benedetto's.
I live in Vancouver and quite willing to meet up at the local L&M with anyone who cares to dispute this. Bring your "Gibson buster" with you or we'll just pull cheapies off the wall and compare with the more expensive models.
I'm tired of this cheapie vs. expensive crap. Buy whatever guitar you want and have fun playing it, but stop bulls**ting yourself.


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## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

mrfiftyfour said:


> To get back on topic and stir the pot a little...
> There is no Artcore or and other similar priced guitar that could hold a candle to the higher priced Ibanez, Gibson, Gretch, D'Angelico or Benedetto's.
> I live in Vancouver and quite willing to meet up at the local L&M with anyone who cares to dispute this. Bring your "Gibson buster" with you or we'll just pull cheapies off the wall and compare with the more expensive models.
> I'm tired of this cheapie vs. expensive crap. Buy whatever guitar you want and have fun playing it, but stop bulls**ting yourself.


Commendably direct. I have tended to think along those line, but I think the goalposts have actually moved on the past few years, and there are now fairly low-cost instruments from China that are just as good as anything being made elsewhere. My hat is off to the folks at Eastman for what they have accomplished over the past few years - as mentioned in another post, I was so impressed by their least expensive laminated archtop that I went out and got one. And I distribute a brand of guitars that competes directly with Eastman to boot.

I'm not in Vancouver much these days, but I recommend comparing a Gibson ES-175 or ES-165 to an Eastman AR371CE (there must be a Eastman retailer in town somewhere), a guitar that streets for less than $700 all day long. I'd be most interested in hearing your opinion. I'm not about to run off and embrace all Furutama with any fervor, but I think at least one Chinese shop has been able to deliver the quality goods. With more to come, I suspect.


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## mrfiftyfour (Jun 29, 2008)

I'm not in Vancouver much these days, but I recommend comparing a Gibson ES-175 or ES-165 to an Eastman AR371CE (there must be a Eastman retailer in town somewhere), a guitar that streets for less than $700 all day long. I'd be most interested in hearing your opinion. I'm not about to run off and embrace all Furutama with any fervor, but I think at least one Chinese shop has been able to deliver the quality goods. With more to come, I suspect.[/QUOTE]

Never said that weren't great guitars coming out of China. I've got no issues with buying Chinese, or any other Asian, guitars. But again, just the laminate maple top on the Eastman loses to the full maple tops of the expensive guitars. This is why people pay 3-4 times the price.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I can't comment on the Artcores but a friend of mine really likes the look and specs of the ART series. Un fortunately every one we've looked at feels as cheap as the price. I wish they made a higher quality version in that series (if they do I'd like to hear about it).


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## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

Hammertone said:


> I'm not in Vancouver much these days, but I recommend comparing a Gibson ES-175 (w/one pickup) or ES-165 (w/set-in pickup) to an Eastman AR371CE (there must be a Eastman retailer in town somewhere), a guitar that streets for less than $700 all day long.





mrfiftyfour said:


> Never said that weren't great guitars coming out of China. I've got no issues with buying Chinese, or any other Asian, guitars. But again, just the laminate maple top on the Eastman loses to the full maple tops of the expensive guitars. This is why people pay 3-4 times the price.


Fair enough but, having agreed on the generalities, I think specifics and accuracy are useful as well. Regarding the Eastman in question - it is a DIRECT version on the ES-175 with a few tweaks, and as such is a useful example. In this case, people pay 3-4 times the price because of the perceived but intangible brand equity of the Gibson brand, or because they have not had the opportunity to play the Eastman. 

For clarity, some general specifications:
Gibson ES-175 w/one pickup (or Gibson ES-165):-- Eastman AR371CE (their version of a Gibson ES-175) 
- street price new ES-175 @$3,000-3,500?--------- street price new @$700
- street price new ES 165 @ $2,250-$2,500?
- @16" full-depth archtop---------------------------- @16" full-depth archtop
- @24 3/4" scale-------------------------------------- @24 3/4" scale
- @3 12/32" rim depth------------------------------- @3 9/32" rim depth
- unfigured maple laminate top, rims, back-------- unfigured maple laminate top, rims, back
- rosewood board w/plasic double trap inlays------ rosewood board w/plasic double trap inlays
- sunburst nitro finish-------------------------------- sunburst nitro finish
etc.

Many of their other archtops can similarly be compared to American products, including 
- a 16" archtop with set-in pickup, carved top/laminated sides & backs;
- fully carved 16" archtops with set-in or floating pickups; 
- fully carved 17" archtops with floating pickups;
as well as some instruments with unique specifications.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

The unfortunate truth about quality in manufacturing is that it goes far beyond the skill of the employees. When comparing a Gibby and an Artcore or Eastman (even if we take replaceable electronics out of the equation) the Ibanez / Eastman can never be judged equal or better quality, because of the materials. At the end of the day it’s not skill or manufacturing methods that separates them from us, it’s materials used.



The Chinese and Koreans can easily have the same skill level, engineering and production techniques as Americans if they so desire, so they should be able to make an instrument of the same quality, but because they don’t use premium materials they don’t, IMO end of story, they two guitars cannot be compared.


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## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

Jimmy_D said:


> The unfortunate truth about quality in manufacturing is that it goes far beyond the skill of the employees. When comparing a Gibby and an Artcore or Eastman (even if we take replaceable electronics out of the equation) the Ibanez / Eastman can never be judged equal or better quality, because of the materials. At the end of the day it’s not skill or manufacturing methods that separates them from us, it’s materials used. The Chinese and Koreans can easily have the same skill level, engineering and production techniques as Americans if they so desire, so they should be able to make an instrument of the same quality, but because they don’t use premium materials they don’t, IMO end of story, they two guitars cannot be compared.


Too GENERAL, IMO. Getting to SPECIFICS, some Chinese and Korean shops DO use premium materials and hardware. Some use the SAME wood as the Americans. Certainly Eastman (anyone have any other examples?) uses materials of the same quality as far as I can see, and I've played many of them. Some Japanese shops certainly do as well.


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## FrankyNoTone (Feb 27, 2012)

The (ESP) Ltd deluxe guitars made in Korea use EMG, Seymour Duncan PU's and Floyd Rose trems. I see Ltd's being used by pro's so they must be good and reliable.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Hammertone said:


> Too GENERAL, IMO. Getting to SPECIFICS, some Chinese and Korean shops DO use premium materials and hardware. Some use the SAME wood as the Americans. Certainly Eastman (anyone have any other examples?) uses materials of the same quality as far as I can see, and I've played many of them. Some Japanese shops certainly do as well.


Too general, fair enough. So tell us specifically what materials are used in the two guitars you're comparing please.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

FrankyNoTone said:


> The (ESP) Ltd deluxe guitars made in Korea use EMG, Seymour Duncan PU's and Floyd Rose trems. I see Ltd's being used by pro's so they must be good and reliable.


They are good and reliable as well asd very cheap on the used market.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Phil X sig guitar is an LTD. Not sure if it's available though.

He beats the hell out of it on stage too.

[video=youtube;0-l5VtevVrQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-l5VtevVrQ&amp;feature=results_main&amp;playnext=1&amp;list=PLD 5F8F40C531EFCC2[/video]


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## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

FrankyNoTone said:


> The (ESP) Ltd deluxe guitars made in Korea use EMG, Seymour Duncan PU's and Floyd Rose trems. I see Ltd's being used by pro's so they must be good and reliable.


The ESP line is more custom oriented based on players' preferences; the upper end LTD guitars are more "off the shelf", but with the same or similar quality parts as ESP. And yes, both ESP and LTD make guitars good enough for professional use, some at exhorbitant prices, others quite reasonably priced. LTD also makes good beginner/amateur level guitars. ESP began as a very serious US based custom shop, and moved to Japan later. LTD are now Korean, Indonesian or Chinese mfgr. I own a Korean LTD Les Paul copy that seems to be the equal of a "good" Les Paul in every way imaginable: in fact I traded my Les Paul BFG without a moments hesitation. I doubt I will ever sell my LTD.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

sulphur said:


> Phil X sig guitar is an LTD. Not sure if it's available though.
> 
> He beats the hell out of it on stage too.
> 
> [video=youtube;0-l5VtevVrQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-l5VtevVrQ&amp;feature=results_main&amp;playnext=1&amp;list=PLD 5F8F40C531EFCC2[/video]


I suppose someone could put whatever sticker they want on a guitar. Billy Gibbons could put a Jay Turser sticker on a Pearly if they paid him enough.

That said, a good guitar is in the hands of a beholder...I'm sure there's thousands of $500 gits that can outplay a $5000 one. I posess the talent to make all guitars of any price point sound equally bad.. OPs thread acts like its made some kind of groundbreaking discovery, but the Epi vs Gibby debate has been going on for decades and will never be resolved.
Reminds me of the old Nike commercial " ...it's gotta be the shoes!"


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

mrfiftyfour said:


> To get back on topic and stir the pot a little...
> There is no Artcore or and other similar priced guitar that could hold a candle to the higher priced Ibanez, Gibson, Gretch, D'Angelico or Benedetto's.
> I live in Vancouver and quite willing to meet up at the local L&M with anyone who cares to dispute this. Bring your "Gibson buster" with you or we'll just pull cheapies off the wall and compare with the more expensive models.
> I'm tired of this cheapie vs. expensive crap. Buy whatever guitar you want and have fun playing it, but stop bulls**ting yourself.


Since the guitars we are speaking of in this thread are all produced the same way and many with the same woods, binding, etc., what in your opinion make them better? I mean better, not just different because the minor differences will make them sound a little different but how are they better?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Hammertone said:


> Too GENERAL, IMO. Getting to SPECIFICS, some Chinese and Korean shops DO use premium materials and hardware. Some use the SAME wood as the Americans. Certainly Eastman (anyone have any other examples?) uses materials of the same quality as far as I can see, and I've played many of them. Some Japanese shops certainly do as well.


Of course they do. Some of these companies have been around a long time and have stockpiles of premium woods just like other manufacturers that charge exorbitant prices for their products.


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## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

Hammertone said:


> Too GENERAL, IMO. Getting to SPECIFICS, some Chinese and Korean shops DO use premium materials and hardware. Some use the SAME wood as the Americans. Certainly Eastman (anyone have any other examples?) uses materials of the same quality as far as I can see, and I've played many of them. Some Japanese shops certainly do as well.





Jimmy_D said:


> Too general, fair enough. So tell us specifically what materials are used in the two guitars you're comparing please.


I'll confirm a few things and edit the post with more accurate information, but:
- bridges & fingerboards of both are Rosewood, probably Indian Rosewood.
- frets on the Eastman are Dunlop 6130. Not sure of the Gibson.
- bodies of both are both laminated plain maple - Eastman has 6 plys - looks like a set of three doubled up; older ES-175s used maple/poplar/maple).
- neck of the Eastman is three-piece hard maple, probably Acer Saccharum. Neck of Gibson is mahogany, whatever species/variety they use
- bindngs and purflings of both are plastic, probably similar in composition. The Eastman has more and fancier binding
- fingerboard inlays of both are some kind of plastic. The Eastman inlays are not swirly, more plain white
- I don't know what materials are used for the headstock overlays 
- headstock inlays on both are mother-of-pearl
- tailpiece of the Eastman is probably plated brass combined with plated cast pot-metal for the cross-bar. Tailpiece of the Gibson is plated brass.
- finishes on both are nitro-cellulose lacquer.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

washburned said:


> ESP began as a very serious US based custom shop, and moved to Japan later.


Just a technical issue on that statement: they were in Japan first, had a custom shop(s) in the USA for a short while and then closed it(them). I don't think that they even closed their Japan custom shop when they had custom shop presence in the USA.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> Of course they do. Some of these companies have been around a long time and have stockpiles of premium woods just like other manufacturers that charge exorbitant prices for their products.


Remember: your window cleaning price would likely be considered exorbitant compared to the squeegee kid who can do just as good a job for $0.50.

Regards,smorgdonkey.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

> Remember: your window cleaning price would likely be considered exorbitant compared to the squeegee kid who can do just as good a job for $0.50.


LOL I wonder if he cleans the Queen's glasses...


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Rick31797 said:


> LOL I wonder if he cleans the Queen's glasses...


I get asked that fairly often. I tell people.........Yes, but you have to leave your glasses on! Then I pick up my 30" window mop and we have a good laugh.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

smorgdonkey said:


> Remember: your window cleaning price would likely be considered exorbitant compared to the squeegee kid who can do just as good a job for $0.50.
> 
> Regards,smorgdonkey.



We love these guys. They always disappear when the weather turns cold, they often don't show up and their customer gets disgruntled, they do a bad job because they never maintain their equipment, which is the cheapest you can buy, they are often unkempt, have no liability insurance, no HST number and always want cash. Yes, we love these guys because we have picked up oodles of business from them. 

If any of you know where some of them are working, feel free to PM me anytime and let me know where it is. Regards, Steadfastly


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> they do a bad job because they never maintain their equipment,
> which is the cheapest you can buy,
> they are often unkempt,
> have no liability insurance,
> no HST number


Sounds like you are describing many, many, many foreign guitar factory workers.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

smorgdonkey said:


> Steadfastly said:
> 
> 
> > they do a bad job because they never maintain their equipment,
> ...


In case Alannis Morisette is reading this thread, THAT'S actually ironic (vs bad luck). Oh crap, I just pointed it out so I guess it no longer is, nevermind.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

smorgdonkey said:


> Sounds like you are describing many, many, many foreign guitar factory workers.


You have a prejudice against people living in other countries? Guess where our grand parents came from unless your are a descended from native Americans.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> You have a prejudice against people living in other countries? Guess where our grand parents came from unless your are a descended from native Americans.


How does my comment reflect or suggest in the slightest of prejudice?

It doesn't. 

So, your grandparents are Chinese then?


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## urko99 (Mar 30, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I was reading an article last night that cross boarder shopping is costing Canada $20 billion a year and is expected to get much higher in the coming years. There still appears to be a gap in pricing even though the dollar has been pretty much equal for 4 years


If I may ad to this, It's more than Just Money here, It's about the Variety and Choices, Generally speaking as far as merchandise.
Always great deals to be had normally every time I go over. We shop Both sides no matter what we buy and what financially makes sence usually wins. I stress that some items that have warranty concernes weighs heavily on what we decide and usually purchase in Canada. Living in a Border city proves to have its advantages, as long as you play your cards right.


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## mrfiftyfour (Jun 29, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> Since the guitars we are speaking of in this thread are all produced the same way and many with the same woods, binding, etc., what in your opinion make them better? I mean better, not just different because the minor differences will make them sound a little different but how are they better?


Seriously? C'mon man, if you've been playing guitar for more than a couple years, you know damn well what I mean.
The opinion of the original post was that an Ibanez Artcore was the same quality of a quitar 3 to 4 times that price.
There's not too many similarities between an Artcore and a Gibson, besides the fact that their both guitars made of wood.
Nobody at Ibanez would agree that the Artcore is just as good as the George Benson or Pat Metheny models.
The differences are even greater when you get into the smaller luthier shops like Benedetto.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

mrfiftyfour said:


> Seriously? C'mon man, if you've been playing guitar for more than a couple years, you know damn well what I mean.
> The opinion of the original post was that an Ibanez Artcore was the same quality of a quitar 3 to 4 times that price.
> There's not too many similarities between an Artcore and a Gibson, besides the fact that their both guitars made of wood.
> Nobody at Ibanez would agree that the Artcore is just as good as the George Benson or Pat Metheny models.
> The differences are even greater when you get into the smaller luthier shops like Benedetto.


If I'm just playing it at home, and that kind of stuff, the Artcore is more than sufficient...


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

> If I'm just playing it at home, and that kind of stuff, the Artcore is more than sufficient...


You could play a Artcore on stage, many pro players today started out with much less, look what EVH made for his first guitar ,now they sell Replicas for 12 grand


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Rick31797 said:


> You could play a Artcore on stage, many pro players today started out with much less, look what EVH made for his first guitar ,now they sell Replicas for 12 grand


Well of course, and I would have no trouble doing that if I were gigging.

My point was not that, but that since I am playing the guitar at home for fun, and I don't have a lo of extra cash, and I like the Artcores--why do I need to spend a ton of money or why should I do that to get a guitar that may be better in a variety of ways, just because it's better?

I say, get a guitar to fit what it's going to be used for.
If you can afford thousands of dollars, go for it.

I can't afford that, but I do not feel I have compromised by buying an Artcore.


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

zontar said:


> I can't afford that, but I do not feel I have compromised by buying an Artcore.


If you cannot afford a certain thing, it is obvious that you will have to reach a compromise if you are to buy anything remotely similar.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

How about a comprimise?

Just get both...one of each.

That's what I'd do. evilGuitar:


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

> Well of course, and I would have no trouble doing that if I were gigging.
> 
> My point was not that, but that since I am playing the guitar at home for fun, and I don't have a lo of extra cash, and I like the Artcores--why do I need to spend a ton of money or why should I do that to get a guitar that may be better in a variety of ways, just because it's better?
> 
> ...



I get you, and i have been there, my first guitar was homemade ( not by me ) i cut grass and saved up 60.00 back in 1969, it was terrible, my second guitar was given to me by my brother, 1966 Guild semi-hollowbody electric, it was great and still have it..When i started working, before i got married i wanted to buy a new Les Paul Custom, was making 2.36 per hr and bought a new 1982 Les Paul Custom ..1800.00 awesome guitar ) still have it... since then over the years i have bought cheaper guitars under a grand and high end guitars such as a Gretsch white Falcon. The one guitar i play the most is a 1999 DeArmond starfire ,made in Korea bought new for 749.00 12 fret... and i just play guitar at home for fun ,so i do get it.


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## FrankyNoTone (Feb 27, 2012)

I'm pretty sure there are a lot more $3000 guitars being played in homes by people making a nice non-musical living (i.e. doctors, lawyers, window cleaners) than in clubs by people living the wretchedly poor existence of most professional musicians. Expensive guitars up the tally in the toy department but music wise, it would be far better to buy good, honest guitars like the Artcore and spend the money on music lessons.


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

^^^^ Wouldn't you rather be a doctor or a lawyer? And do both, buy "toys" (funny word choice, really) and take lessons?


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

sulphur said:


> How about a comprimise?
> 
> Just get both...one of each.
> 
> That's what I'd do. evilGuitar:


You're a brilliant man.

The end.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Taking the original post literally, "Why would you want to spend three or four times as much for the same quality?", is easy for me. If both guitars are of the same quality I would take the less expensive. Is the Articore mentioned the same quality as the same but more expensive guitar from another maker? Don't know. The last Articore I tried was a 2001 AF75 D and I was comparing it against an old EKO 100. And as far as guitars mentioned in this thread go, I would sooner have the 1966 Guild semi-hollow that Rick31797 at a reasonable price if it was for sale and he was closer so I could try it before buying it. And, if it's in good shape I think it might be a better guitar than the Articores I have tried. But that's just my opinion and I just play for fun.


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## FrankyNoTone (Feb 27, 2012)

starjag said:


> ^^^^ Wouldn't you rather be a doctor or a lawyer? And do both, buy "toys" (funny word choice, really) and take lessons?


Nah, doctors are surrounded by sick people and lawyers... well, I'd rather fall down a septic tank. In any event, most have little free time to invest in the huge amount of effort required to become and maintain proficiency at the guitar, i.e. at least 1 hour a day of practice for basic maintenance and much more for advancement.

As far as using the word "toys", you have to reach a certain level of maturity to realize that boys don't grow up, but the price of our toys sure do. There are also "toys" and there are "tools of the trade": a set of clubs for a pro tour golfer is a tool and a source of endorsement income but that same set of clubs is a toy in the hands of amateurs who could never come close to the performance limits of those clubs.

So the objective of any boy regardless of age who actually has a pair, is to acquire as many toys as possible, and better ones than what other boys have.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

"He who dies with the most toys wins.", right Franky? As far as doctors and lawyers and window washers go, Seems both docs and lawyers are surrounded by sick people. My apologies to any doctors out there. If the window washers are the guys who hang off the sides of buildings, to me that's totally insane. As a side note, in his last year of high school, my son played in a band of students and people over 40 who took up music again. My Dr. was one of them and as it turned out so was my ex wife's lawyer.


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## FrankyNoTone (Feb 27, 2012)

Electraglide said:


> "He who dies with the most toys wins.", right Franky?


Exactly! And your ex wife's lawyer is one of those rare exceptions I guess, kind of like those random, genetically mutated creatures that crawled out of the primordial swamp to start evolution on land.

Its pretty clear to me that modern technology (and skilled/cheap labor) enables the making of very high quality musical instruments at a modest cost. Beyond the needs of musical performance, there is of course no limit to what can be done to a guitar as a crafted artifact, and no limit to the intangible value given to certain guitars or brands.

Add to this the obvious truth that a lot of great music was performed on cheap guitars (i.e. "student" Melody Makers, Mustangs, etc.), the answer to the original post's question is because one can, and because a guitar is more than something used to make music.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

> _"He who dies with the most toys wins.", right Franky?_



well this may be true, he wins but if there is a She, Then she may lose, as she has too deal with getting rid of all the toys...lol but ya the more toys the better...


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> "He who dies with the most toys wins."


But they still die.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

zontar said:


> But they still die.


And that is definitely not a win.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

My idiot logic would lead me to say, "No way I'm spending X amount of money on a Gibson!"

Then buy four or five Artcores.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

> And that is definitely not a win.


depends how healthy you are.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Rick31797 said:


> depends how healthy you are.


Dyin' ain't much of a livin'

[video=youtube;ZEClGMJ2r3g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEClGMJ2r3g[/video]


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Rick31797 said:


> depends how healthy you are.


I've always thought being dead is about as unhealthy as you can get.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> I've always thought being dead is about as unhealthy as you can get.


Yup, see the video I posted above your post...


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## FrankyNoTone (Feb 27, 2012)

Steadfastly said:


> I've always thought being dead is about as unhealthy as you can get.


Thought wrong bud. You could turn into a zombie, and when you tried things like pull-offs and slides, your fingers would shred all over your strings and finger board. That's gross.

Better to be buried with your guitars or burned on a pyre made of them. That's a clean honorable end to a lifetime of GAS.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

FrankyNoTone said:


> Thought wrong bud. You could turn into a zombie, and when you tried things like pull-offs and slides, your fingers would shred all over your strings and finger board. That's gross.
> 
> Better to be buried with your guitars or burned on a pyre made of them. That's a clean honorable end to a lifetime of GAS.


How about never dying? That's the best. Then I can continue to work on my guitar playing. Even I can get good in that time.


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## Exposey (May 25, 2012)

Even the high priced guitars feel off to me! I think I prefer used to new. I find the necks on the new gibsons feel sticky. Emailed Gibson and they said to wipe lighter fluid on the neck to help cure the finish? Really? I hate white plastic on bindings too! I like the old ibanez guitars, hate the new ones. I don't like shiny finishs either, too much glare and it looks cheap. I have a bad feeling that those thick finishs are killing the tone those jazz box body guitars have. The Prs bodies are made from carved wood, not plywood, I think that should be a consideration in buying a jazz box. Most are plywood, even the 335s Gibson makes. But, you could say its the pickups that make the sound! A strat in 1955 cost 275 and today that guitar can cost upwards of 150,000. But what if guitars have no value at all thirty years from now? All those guitar collectors are doomed!


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Exposey said:


> But what if guitars have no value at all thirty years from now? All those guitar collectors are doomed!


I believe they will be all worthless eventually. Technology rulez all and replaces all. All bow to technology.......


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## Exposey (May 25, 2012)

[_Nigel Tufnel is showing Marty DiBergi one of his favorite guitars_] 
*Nigel Tufnel*: The sustain, listen to it. 
*Marty DiBergi*: I don't hear anything. 
*Nigel Tufnel*: Well you would though, if it were playing.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)




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## Exposey (May 25, 2012)

I missed Nigel Tufnell day, sulphur, how could I miss Nigel Tufnel day?!? 11/11/2011


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## PaulS (Feb 27, 2006)

Had the chance to test out the Gibson 339 along side the Epi 339 and I was not overly impressed with the Gibson model, find it hard to pay that price when the Epi's are almost as nice and very useable. In this case I would have to say I liked the Epi over the Gibson. The Gibson came poorly set up but that was corrected. The big thing that stood out on the Gison was the fretboard. It had a LOT of open grain on it whereas the Epi was very fine. The hardware is basically the same but I like the Epi's pickups and the choice of splitting them and getting a very useable chimey sound. Hands down I would put out the cash for the Epi, under $500, to the Gibson at $1500+ .


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I tried a Gibson 339 at a local store a little while ago. I too was not overly impressed either.

Of course, when I'm handed the guitar, the tuning is way out of whack,
so when I go to tune the thing up, at least three of the strings were pinging while being tuned.
A tell tale sign to me, that the nut needed work. 
Sometimes, you might find one, maybe two strings doing that on other guitars.
Not a big fan of shelling out over two grand for something that needs work, off the shelf.
I had asked the guy one the floor if they ever get in Epi 339s and he gave me a line about L&M getting them all.
That may be true though, who knows. I'd like to try one to compare though.
I like the option of the push pull pots on the Epi also.


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