# 600$ to fix my 1960 Martin...ouch. Should I do it?



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

So I brought in my 1960 Martin 000-18 to get the side and back cracks repaired (40 bucks). The repair guy said its a really nice sounding guitar and is worthy of a restoration. He wants to do a neck re-set and fret job.
600$!!! 
He is a top notch luthier and I trust him completely, and he has done lots of high end guitar restorations.
I paid 800$ for the guitar.
The thing is, I don't even play acoustic that much. Just a bit of open cord fingerpicking.
The guitar does sound really really nice.
I am worried if I do the work, it will change the character of the guitar?
Should I shell out the cash or keep it as-is??
Its a tough one.
Cheers


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

If I recall you were really excited about this guitar. So excited that you ignored a bunch of advice to pass on the purchase. Now I'm not saying you were wrong, actually the opposite. After all, out of all the opinions in the previous thread...you were the only one that played it. My advice? If you loved it before the quote...you'll love it even more when it's up to snuff.


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

Thanks JB. I know I should have passed, but I did really like it in person. It was not nearly as bad as I made it sound in my first thread. The top is perfect and never had a crack. Plus, the neck is slim with a bit of a V and fits my finger-challenged hand very well.
Now I need to find some user friendly easy picking songs to play.
Maybe even take a singing lesson or two which has always been a goal of mine.
Cheers


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2018)

If you like it 'as is' and since you don't play acoustic much, I'd pass on the resto.


capnjim said:


> *He* wants to do a neck re-set and fret job.


Can't blame him for trying to drum up business. lol.


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

It will be $600 well spent considering what you paid and how much you can get for it if you sell.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Do it. $1400 for a 1960 Martin that won't need a neck reset or probably any other work until 2060? That's a good deal, IMO.

The neck reset will only make it sound better, by most estimations. It corrects the break angle of the strings over the saddle. And being a 1960, it probably has a Brazilian RW fretboard and bridge.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Jim: I am thinking you bought this to keep and not really interested in the resale value. I wouldn't let just anyone fool with that guitar but you might look around at some other luthiers and get another quote or two. I would do the refret myself. Maybe you don't need to do a complete refret at this time. Just a few suggestions. I hope they are helpful to you.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I agree with laristotle. If the action is low enough for you and the frets don't buzz or look overly worn anywhere then pass on the neck reset and refret for now. For me as long as the action was as low as I like it and I had a reasonable break angle on the saddle I wouldn't have the neck reset. I hate when there is almost nothing left on the saddle and the strings have almost no break angle so under that circumstance I'd have the neck reset right away. In that case there'd definitely be lots of improvement.


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

the saddle is almost down to nothing. The action is a full 1/4" above spec.
Frets are extremely worn as well. the original owner played all open cords. Maybe he can do a partial re-fret.
I have known this guy for a long time, he is not trying to "drum up business"  he is crazy busy and in demand. He charges a fraction of what most luthiers would charge.
600$ is for the complete refret, neck reset which also includes a new bone nut and saddle.
He only charged me 40$ to fix the cracks and hole in the side.
I'll pick it up today(Crack repairs only for now), and play it a bit more.
I do think I will keep it. The size and neck are perfect for me.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Pass for now, unless that is a "today only rate". He will hopefully still be able to do it for roughly the same amount later, when you do want the work done.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2018)

Post your financial statements, your net worth, tax returns for the last three years plus cash on hand and in the bank. That will give us a better idea if you should do it.


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

I have a deal with the wife, I spend on guitars only from what I sell. not a penny from the household. I would need to sell something as right now there is zero in the fund.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

capnjim said:


> I have a deal with the wife, I spend on guitars only from what I sell. not a penny from the household. I would need to sell something as right now there is zero in the fund.


Well, at least you have your answer. And it is not totally unplayable and you did get a pretty decent deal. All is not lost. Now, whatcha gonna sell?


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

It’s money in the bank. $600 spent to increase the value by $900-$1200 perhaps. Those guitars are in demand. 

I’m jealous.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2018)

capnjim said:


> the saddle is almost down to nothing. The action is a full 1/4" above spec.
> Frets are extremely worn as well. the original owner played all open cords. Maybe he can do a partial re-fret.


In that case, I'd say go for it then.
Not that you need my permission. lol.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

If his work is top notch as you say and you get a nut, saddle, frets and neck reset for $600.... I'd say do it. I have an old Southern Jumbo that's on the borderline for a neck reset and if I remember correctly I was quoted over $600 just for that.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

Ah, the smell of hide glue.....don't miss out on that!


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

You already invested in an instrument that you knew needed some attention. Its a classic... 

Its like an old muscle car, it works... but for $600, you can bring it to pristine condition... plus better now then later if ever you decide to sell since hard to justify $600 to $1K later to sell a guitar... Might as well invest now and get back pleasure from your investment and have the best instrument you possibly can for YOUR ENJOYMENT !

Cause, Hey! You deserve it !


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

If all you ever need is the one good vintage acoustic and it's a keeper, go for it. It's a vintage Martin afterall. Have you checked what they are worth in good well maintained condition??


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2018)

capnjim said:


> I have a deal with the wife, I spend on guitars only from what I sell. not a penny from the household. I would need to sell something as right now there is zero in the fund.


There is a way to bring the action down without a neck reset. Loosen off the strings or remove them. Boil water in a kettle, and put the steam into the hole for 2-3 minutes. Then seal the hole. Do this every day or two for a couple of months. When you take a shower bring it into the room to absorb some of moisture. The guitar should return to it's original state over time.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

You can also pick up cash jobs to add to the fund


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Put it aside for the time until you get $$$ in gear fund. I assume you have a case for it, so buy a guitar humidifier. I like the OASIS in guitar one.

- for guitars, ukuleles, bass and mandolins


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

i do humidify my guitars in the winter. I use the ole sponge in a baggie trick and it works fine. I don't think I could bring this back with humidity. not when its 1/4" out.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2018)

capnjim said:


> i do humidify my guitars in the winter. I use the ole sponge in a baggie trick and it works fine. I don't think I could bring this back with humidity. not when its 1/4" out.


My luthier gets results with the technique I described.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2018)

Budda said:


> You can also pick up cash jobs to add to the fund


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Player99 said:


> There is a way to bring the action down without a neck reset. Loosen off the strings or remove them. Boil water in a kettle, and put the steam into the hole for 2-3 minutes. Then seal the hole. Do this every day or two for a couple of months. When you take a shower bring it into the room to absorb some of moisture. The guitar should return to it's original state over time.


Unless it's an acoustic that has been severely dried out that sounds like a surefire method to pop the bridge and warp the top, like in the picture bellow.


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## Guest (Jun 14, 2018)

Morkolo said:


> Unless it's an acoustic that has been severely dried out that sounds like a surefire method to pop the bridge and warp the top, like in the picture bellow.


If you believe that, absolutely don't do it.


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## NashvilleDeluxe (Feb 7, 2018)

Player99 said:


> There is a way to bring the action down without a neck reset. Loosen off the strings or remove them. Boil water in a kettle, and put the steam into the hole for 2-3 minutes. Then seal the hole. Do this every day or two for a couple of months. When you take a shower bring it into the room to absorb some of moisture. The guitar should return to it's original state over time.


NOOOooooooOOOOOOooo! Don't you dare!
First, if you really love this family heirloom, and it's a simple humidity issue, I have a house really close to you, in St-Lazare. I have a humidity controlled music room with a Martin, Gibson, Fender, Tone King...and so forth.. You are welcome to bring and visit your baby over the summer as it settles from years of dryness. 
However, if this is a simple buy and dump instrument purchase, Caveat Emptor.


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

Don't worry, I wouldn't try the humidity thing. Its almost 60 years old. it needs a proper re-set. The only thing I don't understand, is the action is 1/4" too low. Once the neck has been re-set, does that mean the neck will slope down 1/4" from the 15th fret on? I don't think they shim the fretboard.


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## Tarbender (Apr 7, 2006)

The other thing to think about is that most older Martin's didn't have a truss rod so a neck reset might be the only way to get the action back to snuff.


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

I am probably going to go for it. But the physics of it is driving me crazy.

My main question and what I don't understand, is why doesn't the fretboard need shimming? Shouldn't it need to be raised slightly from the body?? To match the new angle of the neck??

If by shaving a bit of the heel, the headstock is being pulled back a bit. The neck is now at a slightly different angle, but the fretboard end still sits flat on the body which hasn't changed. I have watched videos and they never mention it, and it doesn't seem to be a problem.
I think there is a bit of witchcraft involved.
Maybe I am not supposed to know the answer. 

I am a scientist and have a pretty good knowledge of physics, and this re-set thing makes no sense. I can't see how its possible for the fretboard to still be straight.


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## fogdart (Mar 22, 2017)

Spend the dough. $600 to your luthier is money well spent on this one.

Whenever I buy a "keeper" guitar I always bring it to my luthier and have him do whatever needs to be done to make it perfect. It's usually in the ballpark of $200-300, but I have spent much more on one or two. These old guitars deserve it, and you will love the results when a good luthier has the go ahead to do whatever is needed.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I would do it. 

If the guitar is that old it most likely needs a neck reset and refret anyway.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

capnjim said:


> I am probably going to go for it. But the physics of it is driving me crazy.
> 
> My main question and what I don't understand, is why doesn't the fretboard need shimming? Shouldn't it need to be raised slightly from the body?? To match the new angle of the neck??
> 
> ...


Well, you've raised my curiosity. I hope you answer these questions when you find out.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

It is simple geometry to calculate the neck angle and saddle height to an optimal playing position. If you trust your guy, by reputation or previous personal experience, you should be satisfied with the result.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I’d spend the $600 on it.
IIRC, you’re mad at your wife anyway...perfect excuse down the road.

I’ve justified all sorts of crazy purchases to my wife that way “...ya, well I was pissed off at you when I bought X”. If there’s something extravagant that I want to buy, I just wait until we have a big blowout. She’s already mad, so nothing to lose...and sometimes it takes the focus of what she’s really mad about.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

If its a keeper, i would spend the money. I am sure you will enjoy it even more so after its set-up. You trust your luthier so go with that.Let us know how things turn out Jim.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

If it's playable right now, enjoy it while you put money aside for the reset. You'll like it way more set up properly.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

capnjim said:


> i do humidify my guitars in the winter. I use the ole sponge in a baggie trick and it works fine. I don't think I could bring this back with humidity. not when its 1/4" out.


No it won't work. Or else no one would get a neck reset. They'd just shower with their guitars. Not going to help the frets either. Sounds like the best thing to do is bite the bullet and get the work done.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Tarbender said:


> The other thing to think about is that most older Martin's didn't have a truss rod so a neck reset might be the only way to get the action back to snuff.


Truss rod has nothing to do with the need for a neck reset. Truss rod adjusts the relief on the neck. Neck reset changes the neck angle on the guitar.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> Truss rod has nothing to do with the need for a neck reset.


I met a husband and wife to buy an old Yamaha acoustic that they advertised on Kijiji. The guitar needed a neck reset (you could drive a truck under the strings). The husband insisted, with a somewhat loud and authoritative voice, that tweaking the truss rod would solve the problem. I left without trying to convince him otherwise.


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## Ronbeast (Nov 11, 2008)

I’d go ahead and get the work done. Life’s too short to play a guitar that isn’t playing to its full ability; if you enjoy it now, imagine when it’s up to snuff and playing like a professional instrument.

Plus, even if you don’t play much acoustic, a 60’s Martin is a bloody good guitar to have in your arsenal for when the moment strikes. 

I wouldn’t hesitate to get the work done.


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## oheare (Jun 18, 2012)

Tarbender said:


> The other thing to think about is that most older Martin's didn't have a truss rod so a neck reset might be the only way to get the action back to snuff.


Martin has used a neck reinforcement since the 1920s, first ebony bars, then a steel T-bar from the mid '30s to the mid '60s (with a pause around WWII), thence a box section ("square tube", people often call it) to the mid '80s, and an adjustable truss rod since then.

But if a guitar needs a neck reset, adjusting the truss rod is not an alternative; the fingerboard is actually bent at the neck/body joint. This also explains why it won't need a fingerboard shim, etc. -- sorting out the neck to body joint will straighten the fingerboard. 

Hope that helps.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

You seem to be a guy who constantly turns guitars over. If I was in your shoes, I’d be waiting to see if I liked it as much after the honeymoon period passed. I’d also be asking myself if I could sell it for what’s invested.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

I’ll give you $600 for it.


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## gitapik (Aug 5, 2016)

The 000-18 is, for me, one of, if not THE best acoustic guitars ever built. The ‘60s were wonderful years for Martins. It was before everyone wanted one and they didn’t have to meet that expanded demand.

When did you pay $800 for it? That’s beyond just a steal if it was within the last three decades.

I have a beautiful OM-21 that I never play anymore but I doubt I’ll ever sell that guitar. If anything I’ll hand it down to someone.

$600 is a fair price for that repair. My take is keep it. If you DO sell it, do so at a very high price. Excellent ax.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

gitapik said:


> The 000-18 is, for me, one of, if not THE best acoustic guitars ever built. The ‘60s were wonderful years for Martins. It was before everyone wanted one and they didn’t have to meet that expanded demand.
> 
> When did you pay $800 for it? That’s beyond just a steal if it was within the last three decades.
> 
> ...


As Paul Harvey would say: "And now you know the rest of the story".

https://guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/how-much-does-this-damage-affect-value.218185/

https://guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/ngd-i-bought-the-1960-martin-000-18.219345/


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## gitapik (Aug 5, 2016)

High/Deaf said:


> As Paul Harvey would say: "And now you know the rest of the story".
> 
> https://guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/how-much-does-this-damage-affect-value.218185/
> 
> https://guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/ngd-i-bought-the-1960-martin-000-18.219345/


Ahhh...got it. 

This was prescient from one of your posters in the first thread:

“Not an expensive fix at all. BUT, such damage would cause me to determine if there are other issues such as does it need the neck reset...”

One thing leads to another. 

Still worth the money in my book. I play fingerstyle and the 000-18 excels in that genre. 

Regarding the proverbial “Music Fund Spousal Accord”:

Someone mentioned the, “Well...I was pissed off at you at the time”, axiom. This is, indeed, a time honored and tested reply. Just be ready for the time honored, unspoken, “You owe me, now, pal”in the comix strip thought balloon coming from your beloved’s cranium. 

Seriously, though; it’s definitely tough when you don’t have the cash. Makes it easier if you’ve got something to sell, but then you’re not playing the Martin much, which is a consideration. I’m coming from a place of adoring that ax...but if you’re not, it’s a whole different thing. 

Can the job wait without the problem worsening? That’s a biggie. If not, then my advice is get it done. It’ll increase resale value or be a wonderful keeper.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

gitapik said:


> Can the job wait without the problem worsening? That’s a biggie. If not, then my advice is get it done. It’ll increase resale value or be a wonderful keeper.


But I'm also of the mind "why fix it when you're close to selling and let someone else enjoy the improvements". Do it ASAP and enjoy those improvements yourself - you'll still get the advantage when selling (unless your going to be around another 50 years when it's needed again).

I also think this guitar would have Brazilian fretboard and bridge? That is just one more reason to restore it, IMO. 

If I could get a neck reset, etc, for my early 70s D18S for that price, I would probably proceed. The ballparks I've got so far are a few hundred more than that. I need to do more research, but I won't wait a decade before doing it (it is still very playable, just noy much saddle left to adjust).


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Ronbeast said:


> Life’s too short to play a guitar that isn’t playing to its full ability;


I just got two guitars setup properly this week. All I want to do is play them.


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## Blind Dog (Mar 4, 2016)

capnjim said:


> ... I think there is a bit of witchcraft involved. ...


Sounds ridiculous! 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

But _otoh_ I won't tease Jean about moving to a place called, "Oxsnard". again. 

+1 fix, and if you don't like it, you're unlikely to lose any money in the sale.


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## gitapik (Aug 5, 2016)

Nice ax, Blind Dog, lol. I've got two of those stands. Nice and stable.


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## Blind Dog (Mar 4, 2016)

gitapik said:


> Nice ax, Blind Dog, lol. I've got two of those stands. Nice and stable.


Thanks Greco, and glad you found the humor too gitapik. Guess I'm on the cliques ignore list in mass. 

I do like the stands, and find them less susceptible to accidents, than the neck & lower bout stands.


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## gitapik (Aug 5, 2016)

Blind Dog said:


> I do like the stands, and find them less susceptible to accidents, than the neck & lower bout stands.


No doubt. The broom is cool. Nice DIY!


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## Larry (Sep 3, 2016)

capnjim said:


> So I brought in my 1960 Martin 000-18 to get the side and back cracks repaired (40 bucks). The repair guy said its a really nice sounding guitar and is worthy of a restoration. He wants to do a neck re-set and fret job.
> 600$!!!
> He is a top notch luthier and I trust him completely, and he has done lots of high end guitar restorations.
> I paid 800$ for the guitar.
> ...


There is a 1961 000-18 For Sale on Reverb Canada for $4,328.61


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

They actually sell for around 2-2.5k and with the issues this one has, I think I paid right about what its worth.
Reverb has as many dreamers as Kijiji and eBay.


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## fernieite (Oct 30, 2006)

Beautiful guitar and great price for the purchase and the restoration repair quote.

I'd be tempted to leave well enough alone and make sure the honeymoon period is over before shelling out anymore money.

You could still sell this guitar in this condition for a profit and leave it up to the new owner to do the repairs.

Personally, I can't bond with the feel of Martins. The flatter fingerboard radius always throws me off. I had an early 1970 d-28 for a few years, but eventually sold it off.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

fernieite said:


> Beautiful guitar and great price for the purchase and the restoration repair quote.
> 
> I'd be tempted to leave well enough alone and make sure the honeymoon period is over before shelling out anymore money.
> 
> ...


Interesting. While I'm not a regular acoustic player, I don't even pay attention to radius on an acoustic. Whereas on an electric I have fairly strict preferences.


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## fernieite (Oct 30, 2006)

Yeah, I'm mainly an electric player as well and grew up playing vintage Fenders and Gibsons which have rounder radii. 7 1/4" for Fender and 10" or 12" for Gibson.

Post 1930s ( ? ) Martins are usually quite flat at 16" radius or so. I don't like the feel.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

fernieite said:


> Yeah, I'm mainly an electric player as well and grew up playing vintage Fenders and Gibsons which have rounder radii. 7 1/4" for Fender and 10" or 12" for Gibson.
> 
> Post 1930s ( ? ) Martins are usually quite flat at 16" radius or so. I don't like the feel.


I prefer 7.25 on my electrics too, but I don't even think about it on acoustic


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