# Interesting old pickups. Neck replaced. 2021 UPDATE.



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Matsumoko-made guitar branded Raven for $25 at a yard sale today.

The electronics sounded quite good. Four-ply pickguard. Decent materials and workmanship inside. Appears to be a copper plate on the bottom of each pickup and unknown (to me) innards.

Any info or speculation appreciated.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Not uncommon. I have a pair laying about a bud gave me .... i havent tried them though. Meant to put em in a few things but then just didnt happen. 

You see them on a rather wide variety of models from stratish like yours to hollowbodies.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

Those are a craps shot from really awesome to totally Microphonic. 

I had a set similar in an El Dégas Rickenbacher copy.  They were amazing. I got them wax potted and they were still good but not as awesome as previous. One us know how the experimentation goes.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

sambonee said:


> Those are a craps shot from really awesome to totally Microphonic.
> 
> I had a set similar in an El Dégas Rickenbacher copy. They were amazing. I got them wax potted and they were still good but not as awesome as previous. One us know how the experimentation goes.


These sound way too rich for normal single coils. No kidding, they are quite nice. @Granny Gremlin they are definitely calling out for a semi-hollow or something. No unwanted noise and easy on the treble.

The little black tone switch is great for rhythm -- a must-have for making fuller chords sound clear.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

That is one nicely-made harness.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

ditto , some time went into that ( and craftsmanship )


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

KapnKrunch said:


> The little black tone switch is great for rhythm -- a must-have for making fuller chords sound clear.


What's the cap value on that ?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Using clear tubing is a cool idea. Somehow it looks much better than shrink tube...IMO.

I know, I know...I must try to get out more these days...LOL


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> What's the cap value on that ?


Dang! I got her put back together, and no time to check. (Back to the lake tomorrow.) I would call it a bass cut or HPF. If you need to know for a project, PM me later in the year, GG. Its worth knowing, very effective.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

greco said:


> Using clear tubing is a cool idea. Somehow it looks much better than shrink tube...IMO.
> 
> I know, I know...I must try to get out more these days...LOL


You _can_ get clear shrink tubing, Dave. Once you slide it on, it's up to you whether you want to leave it loose or tighten it up with heat.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> What's the cap value on that ?


If it's like the "strangle" switch on the Fender Jaguar, given the DC resistance of the pickups (indirectly indexed by the use of 500k volume and tone pots), I'm going to guess something in the 2,200-10,000pf (.0022-.01uf) zone.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> You _can_ get clear shrink tubing, Dave. Once you slide it on, it's up to you whether you want to leave it loose or tighten it up with heat.


Thanks. Live and learn....and try to get out more often.

I might be going to Sayal in early August with my son-in-law as he can't resist going there when they visit . It is less than 10 minutes away and is huge. However, the prices and quality are not always that great (IMO)


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Mustang knock-off?


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

That wiring set up looks a lot nicer than this $1600 Carvin/Kiesel someone is selling on Kijiji


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

mhammer said:


> If it's like the "strangle" switch on the Fender Jaguar, given the DC resistance of the pickups (indirectly indexed by the use of 500k volume and tone pots), I'm going to guess something in the 2,200-10,000pf (.0022-.01uf) zone.


Lol 10k pF. you’d drive my anal retentive 11 th grade physics teacher bonkers. 

In all seriousness though, that’s still quite the range. Though I guess I got a whack tonne of caps in the nF range so I could experiment, but there’s nothing like having someone give you the value to start with in order to get you into the ballpark. Or rather the infeild.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Start with .01uf, and if it doesn't seem to cut bass audibly, drop the value until you find the sweet spot.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Lol 10k pF. you’d drive my anal retentive 11 th grade physics teacher bonkers.
> 
> In all seriousness though, that’s still quite the range. Though I guess I got a whack tonne of caps in the nF range so I could experiment, but there’s nothing like having someone give you the value to start with in order to get you into the ballpark. Or rather the infeild.


OK, I managed to weasel the pickguard out from under the strings...

50V.002

Or two million microinfinity farads as brilliantly deduced by @mhammer 

EDIT: seriously @mhammer ... nice job!


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Up next, the 24.75" neck is too badly warped for any kind of detailed playing. Intonation is good, tho.

Any suggestions for a "fender" style short-scale replacement got cheap?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

KapnKrunch said:


> OK, I managed to weasel the pickguard out from under the strings...
> 
> 50V.002
> 
> ...


Thanks for the nod, but nothing special on my part. The Jaguar uses .003uf (which would be .0033uf or 3300pf in contemporary parlance). The "Contour" or "Bass" control, found on many Reverend guitars and some G&L guitars, goes beyond the in/out-of-circuit that this guitar and the Jaguar use, and provides a variable bypass of the "strangle" cap.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Way back when I taught guitar those were already old guitars.
So I recognized that as Matsumoku made,

They had some in a storage room and a couple in the guitar room.
I didn't like them, but if you like it--cool, enjoy.

I sometimes used them if I was doing something earlier in the day & it was inconvenient to have my guitar with me.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

zontar said:


> Way back when I taught guitar those were already old guitars.
> So I recognized that as Matsumoku made,
> 
> They had some in a storage room and a couple in the guitar room.
> ...


Its not a great guitar although I like the sound of the pickups. 

Of course the action is way too high because of the bowed neck. Would a shim under the heel help?

The frets seem too skimpy -- not really positive to touch. 

Worst case ontario, a set of resophonic strings and a slide. Or a different neck.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

May be cool for slide.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Unrelated but... it's hard to find knobs that just say V or T on them. Had a few Tseico/Kawai guitars with the knobs replaced, and trying to find ones close to orginal with just V or T... not easy. Oddly they'd rather spell out the full word than just the first letter on the after markets.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

The neck on this Raven is badly bowed and a bit twisted. Forget about it. 

It measures out to be a typical 24-3/4" neck with a six-in-line headstock. You know, a Gibson scale with an Fender appearance. Or should I say "ABG" dimensions and "XYF" look?

I have taken Zontar's suggestion and made a "slide" out of it, but after a week or so of fun, it's back to the regular stuff I am working on, so no time to really master open tunings. 

I would like to replace the neck with a CHEAP CHEAP (but playable) three peg-per-side short-scale. 

This thing is just a novelty that has a different sound. If the new neck is not good enough I will revert to slide and at least the slide nut will be properly centred, instead of pulled to one side by the six pegs.

My usual hack job will be performed, no need for "boutique lutherie". 

Watcha got? Help me out bro's. Thanks.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Learn slide in standard tuning?
I get the bit about standard vs open tuning--that's part of the reason I'm not better at slide--but having a guitar dedicated to open tuning helps.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

zontar said:


> Learn slide in standard tuning?
> I get the bit about standard vs open tuning--that's part of the reason I'm not better at slide--but having a guitar dedicated to open tuning helps.


When I say slide I mean "lap steel". I have done a bit of the "glass finger" thing in standard, but I find it uncomfortable. I want to use the C6 tuning because there is so much great instruction on YouTube. 

A guy phoned me today about that auction in Estevan, so I went over to his house to talk about gear. He is a great lap steel player and gave me some groovy tips on this guitar. So yeah, if I can't get it fretting properly it will become a slide. Sounds great with a bit of dirt in the mix.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

KapnKrunch said:


> When I say slide I mean "lap steel". I have done a bit of the "glass finger" thing in standard, but I find it uncomfortable. I want to use the C6 tuning because there is so much great instruction on YouTube.
> 
> A guy phoned me today about that auction in Estevan, so I went over to his house to talk about gear. He is a great lap steel player and gave me some groovy tips on this guitar. So yeah, if I can't get it fretting properly it will become a slide. Sounds great with a bit of dirt in the mix.


Sure, I was thinking it could work for lap steel as well.
I have played these guitars so size wise they would work for lap still.
(I was also wondering about that with the nut on there.)


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

zontar said:


> Sure, I was thinking it could work for lap steel as well.
> I have played these guitars so size wise they would work for lap still.
> (I was also wondering about that with the nut on there.)


I may end up at that yet. My friend suggested another piece of metal on the bridge to level the neck radius. Intonation doesn't seem to be an issue. "Use your ears", he said.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

KapnKrunch said:


> Up next, the 24.75" neck is too badly warped for any kind of detailed playing. Intonation is good, tho.
> 
> Any suggestions for a "fender" style short-scale replacement got cheap?


Ebay. they make all sorts of that kind of stuff in China. Making it fit may require some work though....


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Still looking for 24-3/4" neck...


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Would an Epiphone Les Paul Special neck fit? The bolt on ones... sometimes you can buy them for under $100.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Epiphone Special 2 neck, Epiphone Special 2 neck | Guitars | Kitchener / Waterloo | Kijiji Price: $ 75


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Yes, i have been looking for the cheap Epiphone Les Paul. No luck so far in this underpopulated area. 

This morning I did some measurements after realizing this guitar has a 21-FRET neck, not the typical 22-frets. 

As it turns out, because of the shallow 21-fret pocket, a 25.5" neck would be set forward one whole fret, putting the twelfth fret at close to 12-5/8". I should be able to intonate with the available bridge travel. 

Any one got a cheap 25.5" neck out there? Would be worth a try...

Pickups sound great on this thing, unlike anything else I have. Very nice "strangle" switch to thin out the sound for rhythm. Rich, thick notes for lead.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

KapnKrunch said:


> Yes, i have been looking for the cheap Epiphone Les Paul. No luck so far in this underpopulated area.
> 
> This morning I did some measurements after realizing this guitar has a 21-FRET neck, not the typical 22-frets.
> 
> ...


Do you mean 25.5" (Fender scale)? I don't think 25.25" is very common.


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## nnieman (Jun 19, 2013)

Guitar Necks

Lost of options for fender but not a lot of Gibson..

Heres one
Eden 24.75

Nathan


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

gtrguy said:


> Do you mean 25.5" (Fender scale)? I don't think 25.25" is very common.


Dang. Yes. 25.5"

Thanks


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I've got one for you Kapn. Let me know if you need it. Strat headstock


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Just note that if you've raised the strings higher, with that add-on nut, to convert it to a slide-only instrument, you may want to raise the height of the pickups as well, so that the sustain and tone is optimized.

Guitar Fetish carries 24.75" necks of various types and headstock styles: Necks, Bodies, and Kits


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Lincoln said:


> I've got one for you Kapn. Let me know if you need it. Strat headstock


PM'd


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

mhammer said:


> Just note that if you've raised the strings higher, with that add-on nut, to convert it to a slide-only instrument, you may want to raise the height of the pickups as well, so that the sustain and tone is optimized.
> 
> Guitar Fetish carries 24.75" necks of various types and headstock styles: Necks, Bodies, and Kits


Hey Mark. I am scrapping the slide idea entirely. Can't keep interested for more than a day or two.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

Just know that if you put in a 25.5È neck, the tone will change, partly because the pickups wont sit at harmonic points (if they ever did).

For example, the neck pickup on a Strat sits where the 24th fret would go.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Rollin Hand said:


> Just know that if you put in a 25.5È neck, the tone will change, partly because the pickups wont sit at harmonic points (if they ever did).
> 
> For example, the neck pickup on a Strat sits where the 24th fret would go.


I realize that might happen but its definitely splitting hairs on a $20 guitar whose main feature is its novelty. I will find out soon enough... 

Glen MacDougall of Fury guitars had a research guitar where he could move the pickups around and test the results. He maintained that conventional wisdom about the "nodes" was not necessarily the best way to go for highest output and longest sustain because of the way the magnetism worked on the string. He preferred between the nodes rather than on them, I think. Of course he also had his special hollow magnets...

I know nothing. This will be a crap shoot.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

The progress thus far. 

Need to replace rollers with blade type bridge for intonation perfection. Not enough travel with the springs. The scale was changed from 24-3/4 to 25-1/4.

Broke one neck screw which caused a slight lift when strings tuned up. Quite playable as is and perfect for slide.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

UPDATE: screw replaced, whammy bar found and hole re-threaded, neck shimmed, body routed to re-position bridge for intonation and nut filed properly. It is now a total player. All work done at Janzens in Winkler. $100


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

One last thing I will suggest. I have become enamored of the half-out-of-phase mod, that first came to my attention on the Jerry Donahue Telecaster. It involves installation of a phase reverse switch, in tandem with a bass-cut on the neck pickup. On the JD Tele, when neck and bridge are engaged, it does a striking emulation of neck+middle "cluck" on a Strat. I have installed it on two of my guitars. One is a dual-SC beater with a rewound Jaguar pickup in the bridge, and the other is an old Vantage with what seem to be dual-cream Schaller HBs. The single-coils make one do a double take at how close it comes to N+M cluck with only two pickups. The dual-HB is obviously NOT going to do any sort of Strat emulation, but trimming the bass off the neck pickup results in another very different-sounding N+B tone without any volume drop and without the annoying nasal sound one normally associates with phase-reversal. If you're interested, it IS the sort of thing that can be implemented on a standard push-pull Tone pot. I can draw you up a wiring diagram.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Thanks @mhammer . I have a 1991 Carvin with a phase switch. Also has coil switches so all HB/SC options are available. Two volumes are handy for adjusting the strength of the effect. Also I have a Fury with an SSH configuration with tap on HB. All bases covered I think. 

Besides my last "simple" project went so far south, I have sworn off the soldering iron forever.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

My experience with phase-switching is that I generally end up thinking "Well, it certainly sounds _different_. But can I *use* it? I can think of a few places, I suppose.". But it's like the difference between a flathead or Phillips screwdriver and a torx. Yes, there are places where only a torx will work, but there are a LOT more places/times where a flathead/Phillips is what does the trick.

And that is precisely what attracted me to the half-out-of-phase mod. It sounds SO normal you can think of all sorts of uses for it. And because it doesn't get the volume drop produced by greater cancellation, it's not as disruptive to switch to it when playing.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

mhammer said:


> the half-out-of-phase mod


Yeah Mark, draw that up for us. I may get it done on the Carvin just for fun. Thanks. The Carvin has a phase switch in place already.


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