# Hockey Fights - the debate continues



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I saw this story on the 6:00 PM news last night.

Minor hockey brawl under investigation - KitchenerToday.com

What surprises me is that anyone is surprised when our kids follow the examples we and other role models set for them.

When I go to NHL games and the place just erupts with applause every time a fight breaks out....

The double standard is mind numbing to me.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Brawl?

The video shows one kid on top of another. The kid on top gets sucker punched by another kid. The kid who got sucker punched gets up and goes after the kid that hit him as does another kid. A little wrestling match ensues. Done. It looks like a total of 4 kids were involved with maybe 3-5 punches thrown (with gloves and helmets on) and some hugging. I wouldn't call any of that "fighting" either. 

I think the editor was looking to get some clicks.

With that said, we obviously don't know what happened in the game to lead to that "brawl" but the coaches and kids involved will get suspensions. Kids with raging hormones playing a physical sport are going to cross the line sometimes. So long as everybody knows the consequences and those consequences are stiff enough then these incidents won't happen nearly as often as they used to when we were that age. Heck, I bet they rarely happen now compared to when I was a kid but because this stuff gets plastered all over social media the instant it happens we act like this happens ever week in every arena around the country.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Don’t see the outrage. [Insert Simpsons think of the children meme] Life goes on.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

pubes begin showing, kids fight = life


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

I played against my younger brother many times at that age and would call that video mild.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Parents were cheering and coaches were seen high fiving the kids after the incident.

It is what it is.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Milkman said:


> It is what it is.


And probably will always be.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

The best fights are usually after the game.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I blame child labour laws. In the good ol' days, kids used to work out their frustrations in the mines or farms, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. Some good old sweat equity kept them in check. Ahhhhh, the good ol' days.

So we did away with that and kids used sports instead to help dissipate the emotions. And now, we want to take that away, too. Pussies! We are a cruel species in a slow death spiral.


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

Same Brantford Alliance organization had fighting suspensions and court appearance for an incident involving 16 year olds in 2013. Apparently history does repeat. Disgusting to see and hear the parents supporting the behaviour, coaches condoning it and the goalie skating near centre ice, looking at the bench and then tapping his stick in approval of what is happening. Given past history, suspend the players involved based on degree of interaction and write in the league constitution for upcoming years that similar actions will result in immediate ejection of the instigating players from the league, with no return of registration fees, and coaching dismissals. Send a message. Of course the league management won't go that far given past behaviours so one can expect similar incidents in the future.


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

Milkman said:


> Parents were cheering and coaches were seen high fiving the kids after the incident.
> 
> It is what it is.


Actually, no it's not. Given the change in the professional game, it should be possible to introduce and socialize change at younger age levels. Educate and demand it from coaches and players. No buy in? Then play or coach somewhere else. This has happened in this league before. The league management needs to be held accountable to drive the change. I wonder what sanctions a minor league like this faces when it has ongoing indents like this? Of course in the long run, it will probably be the victim who leaves and the bully who remains, so in that case I suppose you are correct...it is what it is,sadly.


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

NHL season games with fights by %.

–
*2018-19* 16.74% 
*2017-18* 17.86% 
*2016-17* 24.88% 
*2015-16* 23.41% 
*2014-15* 26.91% 
*2013-14* 29.76% 
*2012-13* 36.67% 
*2011-12* 34.39% 
*2010-11* 37.24% 
*2009-10* 40.08% 
*2008-09* 41.38% 
*2007-08* 38.46% 
*2006-07* 31.22% 
*2005-06* 29.02% 
*2003-04* 41.14% 
*2002-03* 37.72% 
*2001-02* 42.20% 

Fighting is decrease in the pro game. Now is the time to socialize the change in the developmental age groups.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I guess maybe something’s wrong with me, but when I see parents at a game cheering and high fiving their young kids because two supposed professional athletes who are supposed to be role models lose control and assault each other, I feel a real sense of disappointment.

I just sit and wait for that shit to be done with.

If I want MMA it’s not hard to find.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Don Cherry was (and still is) idolized in Canada. Can you say Rock 'em, Sock 'em 48?

I wonder if Russians go through the same kind of hand-wringing over diving in hockey? Do they try and get their kids, their bantams and midgets, to not dive when brushed by another player? I doubt it. That _is_ their game. Don't they know they can hurt themselves, flopping on the ice with such theatrics? Scary shit there.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I started playing hockey when I was 5 to about 13. I wasn't a big kid but fast, and I clearly remember parents calling for my head. Like someone else mentioned, after the games it could get a bit dicey in the arena and outside with the kids carrying the game grudge. All I can say is the NHL had nada to do with it at all. It was all about the gamemanship and the team. Edmonton High Schools abolished hockey back in the 80's because it was getting pretty nasty before, during, and after games. Humans are a funny bunch of animals, aren't we. I don't have an issue with the fighting personally. But I've been a Philly fan since I was 9 and a B's fan previously. MAybe it's a specific characteristic of some people.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Dorian2 said:


> I started playing hockey when I was 5 to about 13. I wasn't a big kid but fast, and I clearly remember parents calling for my head. Like someone else mentioned, after the games it could get a bit dicey in the arena and outside with the kids carrying the game grudge. All I can say is the NHL had nada to do with it at all. It was all about the gamemanship and the team. Edmonton High Schools abolished hockey back in the 80's because it was getting pretty nasty before, during, and after games. Humans are a funny bunch of animals, aren't we. I don't have an issue with the fighting personally. But I've been a Philly fan since I was 9 and a B's fan previously. MAybe it's a specific characteristic of some people.


LOL

When I worked in the Saddledome in the 80s, an Oilers game was always interesting. The upper level (loges) was sold on a per-game basis, no season tickets. So fans of the 'away' team we're very present up there, and with a team like Edmonton in town it was probably 2/3rds Oilers fans. Extra security was brought in for that level, fistfights all night long, a dozen people ejected. The fights carried on into the parking lot.

I'd go down to the event (ice) level after the game and see MacInnis, Roberts, Coffey and Gretsky standing around, chatting with each other. They could separate the sport from their real life --- and yet, many of the fans could not.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Discuss.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Garage band I was in during and after high school had a few punch ups about how to play songs we were doing; I remember my best friend, who was the drummer, standing up and walking right through his kit to get to bass player - fucking drums and cymbals all over the place .. lol


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

I miss a good hockey brawl.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Wardo said:


> Garage band I was in during and after high school had a few punch ups about how to play songs we were doing; I remember my best friend, who was the drummer, standing up and walking right through his kit to get to bass player - fucking drums and cymbals all over the place .. lol


That would never happen nowadays. We had our singer/guitar quit because me and my brother got into a fight on the side of the road coming home from Prince George after two months on the road. Didn’t even have anything to do with him.

Me and bro were having dinner and a couple beer together an hour later. Singer guy called us up later in the week and quit because of the violence he had witnessed haha.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

tdotrob said:


> ... Me and bro were having dinner and a couple beer together an hour later. .


That's pretty much what it was like - we'd all grown up together so a few scraps along the way and then forgotten. Good times and we all ended up in Edmonton for awhile which was the biggest blast ever; lived beside a bunch of bikers who were good people and made sure no one killed us .. lol


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

tdotrob said:


> That would never happen nowadays. We had our singer/guitar quit because me and my brother got into a fight on the side of the road coming home from Prince George after two months on the road. Didn’t even have anything to do with him.
> 
> Me and bro were having dinner and a couple beer together an hour later. Singer guy called us up later in the week and quit because of the violence he had witnessed haha.


I would have likely quit also. It's not something I would be able to laugh off. If it happened once, I'd be waiting for the next time.

Imagine if someone in your office started swinging.

But, we also never trashed hotel rooms, screwed each others wives or girlfriends or got wasted before a show.

Fights between brothers happen, but in a band or company.....


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I would have likely quit also. It's not something I would be able to laugh off. If it happened once, I'd be waiting for the next time.
> 
> Imagine if someone in your office started swinging.
> 
> ...


In all the years that I toured I got in to a fight in a band once back in the early 90's. A coked up drummer that went over the line (the 6 months he was in the band he was one of those that couldn't shut up about how tough he was).
Finally I had enough one night and snapped. The leader\lead singer of the band did nothing but try to instigate a fight between us cause thats just the kind of guy he was. After the fight I quit the band. If I were in a band nowadays and saw a fight break out I'd be outa there. I have not time for that crap and I aint young anymore.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> In all the years that I toured I got in to a fight in a band once back in the early 90's. A coked up drummer that went over the line (the 6 months he was in the band he was one of those that couldn't shut up about how tough he was).
> Finally I had enough one night and snapped. The leader\lead singer of the band did nothing but try to instigate a fight between us cause thats just the kind of guy he was. After the fight I quit the band. If I were in a band nowadays and saw a fight break out I'd be outa there. I have not time for that crap and I aint young anymore.


I have fired a band mate because of violent tendencies before (alcohol related). That shit may have been romanticized by some but I wouldn't stand for it. It's not just buddies sorting out their differences to me.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Milkman said:


> I would have likely quit also. It's not something I would be able to laugh off. If it happened once, I'd be waiting for the next time.
> 
> Imagine if someone in your office started swinging.
> 
> ...


I can understand that. Everybody handles that stuff differently.

It was unfortunate because its the only time me and my brother had ever had a physical dustup and was over some petty crap after 2 months being on top of each other in a van roaming Canada. A lot different than swinging it up at work or an office.

I have also witnessed multiple bandmate fights in other bands on the road.

We laughed about it then and still do, singer obviously it was more than he could handle.

I look at these types of things different for each situation. We aren’t violent people or fighters. It wasn’t a regular thing and there was never any other conflict. Just happened against better judgement once, but once was also the last.

If I was the spectator to the fight in the same situation I would’ve laughed it off, we were all and still pretty close friends, not just business associates in a band. I think it’s stupid to throw away a good thing over a one off incident but I understand everyone is different.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

tdotrob said:


> I can understand that. Everybody handles that stuff differently.
> 
> We laughed about it then and still do, singer obviously it was more than he could handle.


Sorry for the snip but no, I'll have to respectfully disagree on this.

You could also say that an abused wife just couldn't handle that....

The singer should not be judged because he would not accept violent behavior.

Just my opinion of course.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Milkman said:


> Sorry for the snip but no, I'll have to respectfully disagree on this.
> 
> You could also say that an abused wife just couldn't handle that....
> 
> ...


Sorry but I was not judging him. I stated that I understand everyone handles these situations different, and I mean from an emotional standpoint. We are all still friends.

Two brother having a mutually agreed scrap on the side of the road is a lot different than an abused wife or abused anyone for that matter so I will respectfully disagree that the comparison is wildly reaching to make a point.

Wouldn’t be a big deal to me, but I also understand the affect it could have on others at the time I probably didn’t have that same understanding, I was 24 after all. I look back though and still think it’s stupid to walk away from something over an isolated incident.

Fundamentally I can see it both ways, and agree with you for the most part but to add every individual is different in how they view fighting and there are many factors to any situation.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

I should just add when I said laughed about it then and now, I meant me and my brother laugh about the absurdity of the fight, not laugh at our friend as he also can enjoy a good laugh w us about the absurdity of the whole incident


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Edit for double post


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

tdotrob said:


> I should just add when I said laughed about it then and now, I meant me and my brother laugh about the absurdity of the fight, not laugh at our friend as he also can enjoy a good laugh w us about the absurdity of the whole incident


Yes and I'm sorry to have been a bit melodramatic. Yes, spousal abuse is much more serious than two brothers scrapping and I regret making that comparison, but nevertheless, what happens between two brothers may be acceptable, but when it's a group or company, a different set of standards has to apply


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Milkman said:


> Yes and I'm sorry to have been a bit melodramatic. Yes, spousal abuse is much more serious than two brothers scrapping and I regret making that comparison, but nevertheless, what happens between two brothers may be acceptable, but when it's a group or company, a different set of standards has to apply


I can agree on that. Fortunately I would never be in a band that has the same atmosphere as a corporate setting so for myself- and I mean that as my own feeling and thoughts and not saying anyone else should have the same- as a band we drink a bit on the job, maybe smoke a little, sweat and cuss, and get paid like garbage. To me, those factors make the two a little different for comparison.. but different strokes for different folks.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Sorry for the snip but no, I'll have to respectfully disagree on this.
> 
> You could also say that an abused wife just couldn't handle that....
> 
> ...


Speaking of all this band fighting, I don't know if you remember a band from the 80's here in town (Stoker brothers) but they were quite famous for their violent tendencies. I was really good friends with one of their members who played keys and lead guitar for them and he was afraid of them. At one point the one brother had broke his wrist punching out the drummer, who was their cousin.
There was also a dust up between the 2 brothers from that band and another band when the stokers had showed up at the bands gig. Possibly due to some back line chatter about each other. Big egos.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

guitarman2 said:


> Speaking of all this band fighting, I don't know if you remember a band from the 80's here in town (Stoker brothers) but they were quite famous for their violent tendencies. I was really good friends with one of their members who played keys and lead guitar for them and he was afraid of them. At one point the one brother had broke his wrist punching out the drummer, who was their cousin.
> There was also a dust up between the 2 brothers from that band and another band
> when the stokers had showed up at the bands gig. Possibly due to some back line chatter about each other. Big egos.


From my experiences fights among band members is actually pretty common. Witnessed a lot of em, been in one. Different scenes I guess for everyone.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

tdotrob said:


> From my experiences fights among band members is actually pretty common. Witnessed a lot of em, been in one. Different scenes I guess for everyone.


I toured full time from 1981 till about 1995 and then played weekends pretty heavily most of the time up until a bout a year ago. I only experienced 3 fights involving band members. One that I was in, one where a drunk patron picked a fight with the bass player and the bass player knocked him on his ass and one where our drummer (same drummer I got in a fight with) got in to a fight with a patron and it was a draw. I witnessed many more fights between patrons including one all out brawl between about 30 patrons that was quite interesting.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Speaking of all this band fighting, I don't know if you remember a band from the 80's here in town (Stoker brothers) but they were quite famous for their violent tendencies. I was really good friends with one of their members who played keys and lead guitar for them and he was afraid of them. At one point the one brother had broke his wrist punching out the drummer, who was their cousin.
> There was also a dust up between the 2 brothers from that band and another band when the stokers had showed up at the bands gig. Possibly due to some back line chatter about each other. Big egos.


Yes I'm quite familiar with them.

Before Gordie I was their lead guitarist. At that time they were Southern Rock (Lynrd Skynrd, Allman Bros, Outlaws, et cetera).

I toured with them. When the violent stuff started I left. So did Rick Colwell later on.

But, their tough guy images were all in their minds I'm afraid. I never saw one of them fight without the other jumping in. Their dad was a bit of a bad ass but I think neither of the brothers were half as tough as they let on.

After I quit they begged me to come back and even indirectly threatened me. "You have to come back. Our back's against the wall. We have important gigs that we can't cancel, et cetera. We have no choice."

I laughed of course. It was like quitting the mob.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I laughed of course. It was like quitting the mob.


Thats wild. I'm sure Gordie had said something like that to me once. I know he expressed several times his desire to quit but was afraid.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Thats wild. I'm sure Gordie had said something like that to me once. I know he expressed several times his desire to quit but was afraid.


Yup, I know Gordie. I think he was a fine player but a mild mannered guy and not violent at all. He would have been easily bullied by the brothers and dad.

I felt even worse for Rick. He wanted out. I think they managed to coerce and intimidate him into staying for quite a while after I got out.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

tdotrob said:


> That would never happen nowadays. We had our singer/guitar quit because me and my brother got into a fight on the side of the road coming home from Prince George after two months on the road. Didn’t even have anything to do with him.
> 
> Me and bro were having dinner and a couple beer together an hour later. Singer guy called us up later in the week and quit because of the violence he had witnessed haha.


I have two brothers.....we fought all the time. Sometimes there was even a reason. Sometimes it was a two against one thing. The worst one was when my younger bro took my car. (good thing the older bro didn't find out about me 'borrowing' his BSA when he was out of town.). One that might have been a blood bath was when my bro found out I'd slept with his girlfriend. If you were playing in the Pig Gorge area.....like maybe the National.....and he didn't quit because of the violence there it's a good thing you didn't go to the Plazoo in Kamloops.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> I never saw one of them fight without the other jumping in. Their dad was a bit of a bad ass but I think neither of the brothers were half as tough as they let on.


You mean if it was a bar scene and your brother or a friend or band mate got into a fight you wouldn't jump in? You don't have their back. The only time I've ever seen a one on one, toe to toe bar fight is when the two people know each other and it's been brewing for a long time. Other than that it's anything goes. Especially if it's a bar full of drunk homeboys against someone from the band. Fights at work.....I've had a few. Most of them in the parking lot after work.....once with the boss. 
As far as hockey fights go, probably the most interesting part of the game IMO. Hockey is about the only sport of that kind where fights are almost required.....what's the punchline, 'they stopped the fight and a hockey game broke out.'.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> You mean if it was a bar scene and your brother or a friend or band mate got into a fight you wouldn't jump in? You don't have their back. The only time I've ever seen a one on one, toe to toe bar fight is when the two people know each other and it's been brewing for a long time. Other than that it's anything goes. Especially if it's a bar full of drunk homeboys against someone from the band. Fights at work.....I've had a few. Most of them in the parking lot after work.....once with the boss.
> As far as hockey fights go, probably the most interesting part of the game IMO. Hockey is about the only sport of that kind where fights are almost required.....what's the punchline, 'they stopped the fight and a hockey game broke out.'.


Third man in almost ANY fight is a douchbag IMO.

YMMV


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Third man in almost ANY fight is a douchbag IMO.
> 
> YMMV


Been in enough bar fights etc. to say our opinions differ. Look at a lot of hockey fights. They usually involve more that two people and end up as free for alls before the refs step in.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Been in enough bar fights etc. to say our opinions differ. Look at a lot of hockey fights. They usually involve more that two people and end up as free for alls before the refs step in.


I've either been lucky or smart enough to avoid most bar fights and in any case where I was unable to, I was stone cold sober and basically defended myself against an attack so no problem.

As for hockey fights, please see my previous posts on the subject.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> You mean if it was a bar scene and your brother or a friend or band mate got into a fight you wouldn't jump in? You don't have their back. The only time I've ever seen a one on one, toe to toe bar fight is when the two people know each other and it's been brewing for a long time. Other than that it's anything goes. Especially if it's a bar full of drunk homeboys against someone from the band. Fights at work.....I've had a few. Most of them in the parking lot after work.....once with the boss.
> As far as hockey fights go, probably the most interesting part of the game IMO. Hockey is about the only sport of that kind where fights are almost required.....what's the punchline, 'they stopped the fight and a hockey game broke out.'.


I used to think the same way. Loved to see the hockey fights. I changed my mind when I saw how good hockey could become when they got rid of all the clutching and grabbing. That used to slow hockey down so much that it was boring. Now you see a lot of talented guys out there that are making unbelievable moves that just weren't possible for the most part with all the clutching and grabbing. Unless you were Gretzky.


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)




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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

SaucyJack said:


>



Idiots


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

tdotrob said:


> I can agree on that. Fortunately I would never be in a band that has the same atmosphere as a corporate setting so for myself- and I mean that as my own feeling and thoughts and not saying anyone else should have the same- as a band we drink a bit on the job, maybe smoke a little, sweat and cuss, and get paid like garbage. To me, those factors make the two a little different for comparison.. but different strokes for different folks.



Well the bands that I was in were all pretty career minded and really not focused on partying. Yes, you develop a sense of comradery and "us against the world" et cetera, but that doesn't mean we had relaxed standards.

That doesn't mean it wasn't fun, but if anyone had shown up drunk for a show or rehearsal it would have been as serious a problem if I did it at work now as would a physical fight.


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Milkman said:


> Idiots


Give 'em some credit......Hextall & Potvin managed to stop all the other fights.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul M said:


> Give 'em some credit......Hextall & Potvin managed to stop all the other fights.



Watching that numb nuts skate the entire length of the ice to show what a "man" he was......pathetic.


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Milkman said:


> Watching that numb nuts skate the entire length of the ice to show what a "man" he was......pathetic.


Hextall = numbnuts. It's in the dictionary. Potvin must have been confident about not getting hurt. No matter what you through at him, it had a 90% chance of going through his legs.

Baseball fights make me laugh. When the bullpen empties, the pitchers run to the infield, turn in and THEN start fighting. I can't find a reference, but I recall reading that baseball has, (or had), more bench clearing brawls in a week than hockey has all year.

No matter, they all look stupid.


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

H


Milkman said:


> Idiots



Hextall went looking for it. What's a boy supposed to do?


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Do you think if everybody played like Mike Bossy there would be no fights?


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

laristotle said:


>


Maintenant... en francais!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Milkman said:


> Imagine if someone in your *band* started swinging......
> 
> ........, screwed each others wives or girlfriends ..........


Yea, I've been in that band. Thought it woulda been the singer but nope, if was the fuckin' knuckle-draggin gangly drummer. What the hell did girls see in that neanderthal?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Yea, I've been in that band. Thought it woulda been the singer but nope, if was the fuckin' knuckle-draggin gangly drummer. What the hell did girls see in that neanderthal?


Nimble fingers and toes perhaps.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Nimble fingers and toes perhaps.


Lots of girls are turned on by the bad boys.

They don't generally marry them, but drummers will screw anything with a pulse and I suppose they know that.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Lots of girls are turned on by the bad boys.
> 
> They don't generally marry them, but drummers will screw anything with a pulse and I suppose they know that.


We live in different worlds. A lot of girls do marry or live with bad boys. And a lot of them do stay married. I have noticed that drummers seem to be the first on the dance floor, to the bar, going nose to nose and toe to toe and out the door for a fast one. Probably because they can just stand up and walk away.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

It isn't just the guys who have fun.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> We live in different worlds. A lot of girls do marry or live with bad boys. And a lot of them do stay married. I have noticed that drummers seem to be the first on the dance floor, to the bar, going nose to nose and toe to toe and out the door for a fast one. Probably because they can just stand up and walk away.


Yeah but for how long? Divorce rate is around what 50%? The bad boy image seems romantic but when it comes to stability and some of the basic things people need...….


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> It isn't just the guys who have fun.



That's your idea of fun?

Yeah different worlds that's for sure.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Yeah but for how long? Divorce rate is around what 50%? The bad boy image seems romantic but when it comes to stability and some of the basic things people need...….


Closest stat I found was for 2018 with a 38% rate. I have quite a few 'Bad Boy/Bad Girl' friends who've been together for 30+ years. Some married, some might as well be. Most of those people, myself included, provided the "basic things people need". Not too sure of the stats but there seems to be a lot of divorces in the 18 to 30 year bracket. And long term/short term isn't just for 'bad boys/bad girls' it covers everyone.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> That's your idea of fun?
> 
> Yeah different worlds that's for sure.


Watching or participating. At times, why not. No worse than jumping out of a plane or golfing or watching most hockey games and a lot of people watch this for fun.




To each his or her own.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Watching or participating. At times, why not. No worse than jumping out of a plane or golfing or watching most hockey games and a lot of people watch this for fun.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LMAO, so, to be clear, in your mind, violence is an par with golfing?

Yeah that's ok man. We'll have to just disagree on that one.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> LMAO, so, to be clear, in your mind, violence is an par with golfing?
> 
> Yeah that's ok man. We'll have to just disagree on that one.


Nope. Some people find hockey fights and wrestling etc. boring and some, like me find wrestling and golf boring as hell. Stampede wrestling from back in the '60s and early '70s is different and the fights are the most interesting part of hockey. And, for those who follow the sport, isn't NFL just organized violence, same as rugby. Can't stand NFL, enjoy Rugby.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Nope. Some people find hockey fights and wrestling etc. boring and some, like me find wrestling and golf boring as hell. Stampede wrestling from back in the '60s and early '70s is different and the fights are the most interesting part of hockey. And, for those who follow the sport, isn't NFL just organized violence, same as rugby. Can't stand NFL, enjoy Rugby.



Well, as others have said and I agree, hockey is MUCH better without the fighting. It just is. If the violence turns you on or entertains you, ok.

But for those of us more interested in skating, shooting, passing, deke-ing out the defense and goalie.....fighting gets in the way and slows the game down.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Well, as others have said and I agree, hockey is MUCH better without the fighting. It just is. If the violence turns you on or entertains you, ok.
> 
> But for those of us more interested in skating, shooting, passing, deke-ing out the defense and goalie.....fighting gets in the way and slows the game down.


I don't watch hockey but enjoy being in the stands at a Lacrosse game.....go figure. I turned down going to see a Canucks game in the '70s to go and watch the Salmonbellies play at Queens Park.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I also enjoy Lacrosse and used to play as a boy. I still have a nice hand made stick but the plastic ones are long gone.

Funny thing is, I saw less fights in my Lacrosse games than in hockey, although Lacrosse is in my opinion a much more physical game (other than the fights).


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Well, as others have said and I agree, hockey is MUCH better without the fighting. It just is. If the violence turns you on or entertains you, ok.
> 
> But for those of us more interested in skating, shooting, passing, deke-ing out the defense and goalie.....fighting gets in the way and slows the game down.


Sorry but fighting is a part of the game. It can change the momentum of a game and rally players that were otherwise out of the game. It can cull the chippy cheap shot plays, slew foots, running the goalie and knee in knees. Unanswered you'll just breed more players like Brad Marchand.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> I also enjoy Lacrosse and used to play as a boy. I still have a nice hand made stick but the plastic ones are long gone.
> 
> Funny thing is, I saw less fights in my Lacrosse games than in hockey, although Lacrosse is in my opinion a much more physical game (other than the fights).


Fights depended on who the Salmonbellies were playing. If it was a team from the East there might have been the occasional scuffle.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Morkolo said:


> Sorry but fighting is a part of the game. It can change the momentum of a game and rally players that were otherwise out of the game. It can cull the chippy cheap shot plays, slew foots, running the goalie and knee in knees. Unanswered you'll just breed more players like Brad Marchand.



Yup, I've been hearing that from fight lovers for decades, but I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now.

Yes it impacts the game, but for the better? No. That's just a shitty excuse for not enforcing the rules. Cheap shots? Suspension. My grand parents and parents taught me that two wrongs don't make a right.

They were right.

I always wonder how many potentially brilliant players bailed on hockey because they didn't want to be involved with that kind of bar room mentality.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

2 wrong may not make a right but they tell the other teams; if you do this (eg. cheap shot on star player) you're gonna have to answer for it. Sends a msg.

I dont agree with the enforcer role but its a tough game and if nobody is gonna stand up for their teammates then other teams will walk all over them and take liberties. So yes, in my eyes it's part of the game. 

Its slowly being weeded out but if you take out fighting and then what happens. hits to the head? Stickwork? cheapshots? Answered after the fact by department of player safety? That doesnt prevent anything from happening. Having a skilled heavyweight or your team does prevent skilled players from being victims of cheap malicious acts of violence. A hit to the head takes out a player for much more than 5 minutes and a 2 min instigator. So they give the thug 5-10 games and a fine. Repeat offenders show that this isnt effective. Knowing that you will have to face a guy like bufuglian is.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Haven't heard mention of Mr. Cherry for awhile. Don gone and forgotten?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Moosehead said:


> 2 wrong may not make a right but they tell the other teams; if you do this (eg. cheap shot on star player) you're gonna have to answer for it. Sends a msg.
> 
> I dont agree with the enforcer role but its a tough game and if nobody is gonna stand up for their teammates then other teams will walk all over them and take liberties. So yes, in my eyes it's part of the game.


Seems like circular logic to me. The other teams will NOT walk all over them violently if they also adopt or follow proper policies created and enforced by the league.

That statement seems to assume that your team will stop the nonsense but other teams will stay in the 70s.

It wouldn't take long to curtail the fighting if there was a will to do so


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

tdotrob said:


> I should just add when I said laughed about it then and now, I meant me and my brother laugh about the absurdity of the fight, not laugh at our friend as he also can enjoy a good laugh w us about the absurdity of the whole incident


Absurdity.......ah yes, I know it well. 

Picture my two older sons, both well over 30 at the time, and old enough to know better.......in a beer league, both on the same team. One takes a penalty, goes to the box. Then the other gets a penalty also a minute later and ends up in the box too. One starts beakin at the other, and before you know it, they are in a full on fist fight. Two brothers, on the same team, duking it out in the penalty box. And that's hockey folks. Fighting is part of the culture (for them). Fighting in hockey will end, but it's not going to happen over night. IMHO


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I’m ok with fighting in the game... but I’m against fighters being in the game, if that makes sense.

a certain amount of self-policing works in sports.

it became a joke when teams would send out less skilled players whos only role in the roster, was to go out and box each other, over non-issues...”sending a message “ or whatever other BS the dinosaurs would say. The Brashears, Belaks, Twists, Laracques etc.
jeez, I remember a game when they dropped a backup goalie in for a few mins for the sole purpose of getting in a fight. I think it was the flames.
its fine as “part of the game” but it shouldn’t be a game within a game.

I don't buy the "its part of the game" argument. Why? What is so special about hockey, but not football, for example, that it needs this element?


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## MichaMac (Dec 9, 2021)

That's hilarious. My father was the drummer for a bit there. 1984 for sure because he had a show when I was being born. Boy was my mother pissed over that one 🤣🤣





guitarman2 said:


> Speaking of all this band fighting, I don't know if you remember a band from the 80's here in town (Stoker brothers) but they were quite famous for their violent tendencies. I was really good friends with one of their members who played keys and lead guitar for them and he was afraid of them. At one point the one brother had broke his wrist punching out the drummer, who was their cousin.
> There was also a dust up between the 2 brothers from that band and another band when the stokers had showed up at the bands gig. Possibly due to some back line chatter about each other. Big egos.


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## MichaMac (Dec 9, 2021)

Hey, Rick Colwell is my dad. We were actually just talking about you guys last night. He was telling me about a gig you guys were doing at some hotel up in Ottawa area where you were all booked for 2 weeks at Halloween. There was an armed robbery that happened and because at least one of the band members stepped in, they torched your vehicle. I remember seeing you all play when I was a toddler at Gage park in Hamilton. Anyways, I hope you're well.



Milkman said:


> Yes I'm quite familiar with them.
> 
> Before Gordie I was their lead guitarist. At that time they were Southern Rock (Lynrd Skynrd, Allman Bros, Outlaws, et cetera).
> 
> ...


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

MichaMac said:


> Hey, Rick Colwell is my dad. We were actually just talking about you guys last night. He was telling me about a gig you guys were doing at some hotel up in Ottawa area where you were all booked for 2 weeks at Halloween. There was an armed robbery that happened and because at least one of the band members stepped in, they torched your vehicle. I remember seeing you all play when I was a toddler at Gage park in Hamilton. Anyways, I hope you're well.


Wow, that’s pretty cool.

Yes, that’s a true story. It was in Thunder Bay at a club called The Jolly Roger.

Saying they torched our truck might be an understatement. The blast was strong enough to blow the lobby windows in.

Yes, I’m quite well thanks.
Give my best to Rick.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

This ref makes the best calls. He doesn’t mind the odd dust up.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

This whole thread just reminds of the old standup comic one liner,.... "Went to the fights last night and a hockey game broke out."


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