# What is your Achilles Heel on guitar?



## Dorian2

Lots of folks all around the guitar world have certain things that they would like to improve on in their playing. Many are figuring out scales, modes, slide technique, harmony etc. I like to think that my current vocabulary on the fret board is fairly advanced, but there is 1 thing I've really been trying to get under my playing technique that continually eludes me.

Part of it is just not practicing what I have to do enough, and part is trying to hone my other techniques, especially the ones I know well. But there is one that a guitarist like myself, being into many different forms of music, but particularly hard rock and Metal, have consistantly dismissed many times over the years. I have no clue why, neither.

For me, it's Arpeggios. No matter how often I tell myself to learn them to a level I'm happy with, it still eludes me. I don't know if it is a mental block or what. It just seems to be "one of those things".

Anyone have something simialr happen to them over years of playing and improvising?


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## Dorian2

Oh, I do know the theory and building techniques of creating Arps. I just don't have them under my fingers well enough to feel comfortable playing them in an improv situation.


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## JBFairthorne

For me, the thing that always comes back as a weakness is a quick repetitive lick. Like say, a Clapton-esque triplet repeated 4-8 times quickly. I can get the timing right on the first 2 or 3 but then my fingers tend to knot up and eventually it's just a mess.

I actually enjoy arpeggios though. It's funny, the (sometimes) quick repetitive nature of them doesn't seem to be an issue for me. I'm now working on partial scale runs between arpegated (?) chords as well as hammer ons and pull offs within them.


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## gtrguy

Slide... I suck at it.


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## Budda

My picking wrist hates the idea of an upward sweep. It will always try and skip a string, and the feel of resistance is unpleasant. It's very weird, and very annoying.


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## LexxM3

I had to think about it for a while, and it's so hard to focus on just one thing, but I think for me, well, it's a bit embarrassing really. Well, ok ... it's that whole guitar playing thing. Having a smidgeon of trouble with that, but I think I can lick it eventually.


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## Guest

The arthritis in my left hand.
My fingers tend to get sloppy when I try anything fast.


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## greco

LexxM3 said:


> I had to think about it for a while, and it's so hard to focus on just one thing, but I think for me, well, it's a bit embarrassing really. Well, ok ... it's that whole guitar playing thing. Having a smidgeon of trouble with that, but I think I can lick it eventually.


Thank you for putting it so succinctly...that has (also) been my problem for many, many years.
However, I'm getting a bit too old to have the confidence that "I can lick it eventually".


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## keto

I'm a hack who doesn't practice enough. I'm happiest banging out big loud chords.

But on single note stuff, I sound very stiff and whatever the opposite of smooth is. So, I do take a couple solo's with my band but they sound nothing like you'd ever hear on radio - I hit all the right notes, my timing is good, it just sounds....like I'm playing one note at a time, even when I play faster or use hammerons.


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## Mooh

I don't practice enough, being kind of lazy, so sometimes my speed isn't there, though I'm more concerned about sight-reading on other instruments like piano and mandolin. I spend so much time helping others learn how to play that I don't get enough productive practice for myself. It's mostly a matter of self-discipline.

Peace, Mooh.


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## bw66

Mooh said:


> I spend so much time helping others learn how to play that I don't get enough productive practice for myself. It's mostly a matter of self-discipline.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


This.

And...

My weak link is my ear - I don't hear the changes as intuitively as I would like. So many of my musical friends (even our drummer) will listen to a song and, if they know the key, they can tell you the chords without even picking up an instrument - this eludes me, though I'm sure that if I just put in the time it would come.


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## cboutilier

Alternate picking. My alternate picking ability is on par with that of an early beginner. 

When I first learned to play, I couldn't do it at all. I almost exclusively used down strokes. Then when I started playing again, later in life, I picked up hybrid picking and that's what stuck. My middle and ring fingers take the up strokes by default.



JBFairthorne said:


> For me, the thing that always comes back as a weakness is a quick repetitive lick. Like say, a Clapton-esque triplet repeated 4-8 times quickly. I can get the timing right on the first 2 or 3 but then my fingers tend to knot up and eventually


It does help me get the speed and timing on those triplets though!


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## Robert1950

First - Vibrato !!! Can do classical, bending vibrato, and the less desirable "knuckle" vibrato (which is useless on the high E string), but not the pivoting and arm vibrato. Oddly enough I was watching two videos only an hour ago on Justin Guitar and I finally saw a good visual example of how to do the pivotal vibrato - now working on the index finger only. Only time will tell.

Speed - I cannot shred. The speed just isn't there. But I consider a good vibrato more important to a quality sound.


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## GWN!

laristotle said:


> The arthritis in my left hand.
> My fingers tend to get sloppy when I try anything fast.


Like you arthriris in my left hand, particularly in the wrist near the thumb and lower thumb is causing me a fair amount of pain and sloppy playing. I can foresee having to stop playing in the very near future. The pain is becoming unbearable and can last for several days after a long session. The Tele is still ok but the Godin acoustic is almost unplayable. In fact it was the Godin neck that really started the downward slope.

But playing fast has always been hard for me. I'm more a jazz, slow blues player than a shredder.


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## Kerry Brown

bw66 said:


> My weak link is my ear - I don't hear the changes as intuitively as I would like. So many of my musical friends (even our drummer) will listen to a song and, if they know the key, they can tell you the chords without even picking up an instrument - this eludes me, though I'm sure that if I just put in the time it would come.


Same for me. If I can't see what someone is playing it takes forever for me to figure out the changes. No matter how hard I try, no matter how much I practice, I can't judge intervals well. If I know the key I can get simple changes, but as soon as it goes beyond I, IV, V, and VI I'm lost.


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## Mooh

bw66 said:


> This.
> 
> And...
> 
> My weak link is my ear - I don't hear the changes as intuitively as I would like. So many of my musical friends (even our drummer) will listen to a song and, if they know the key, they can tell you the chords without even picking up an instrument - this eludes me, though I'm sure that if I just put in the time it would come.


I wasn't natural at this as a kid but by the time I was gigging it became reasonably immediate. Once in a while I can still fool myself. You're right about just putting in the time. Ear training for ourselves...everyone can do it...eventually.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Moosehead

I'd say playing fast in general. I know its something you can work on and build up to. I used to be a metal head in my teens and could keep up with the albums but never really had the speed ascending /descending scales. Legato stuff and arpeggios as well, not necessarily an achilles heel, just stuff I don't practice but should.

I'll have the left hand arthritis as well, at the ripe ol age of 35 I can feel it starting. Turned too many wrenches and rounded off to many rusty bolts leading to the inevitable knuckle smashing. I'm a bit more careful now and no longer work as a gas fitter as I could feel the toll on my body but mostly on my hands.


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## Budda

cboutilier said:


> Alternate picking. My alternate picking ability is on par with that of an early beginner.
> 
> When I first learned to play, I couldn't do it at all. I almost exclusively used down strokes. Then when I started playing again, later in life, I picked up hybrid picking and that's what stuck. My middle and ring fingers take the up strokes by default.


I'm a bit jealous of my friends in punk bands who can downpick fast. It has a power and tonal quality that alternate picking never will. See: intro to master of puppets by metallica.


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## cboutilier

Budda said:


> I'm a bit jealous of my friends in punk bands who can downpick fast. It has a power and tonal quality that alternate picking never will. See: intro to master of puppets by metallica.


I stopped playing punk as a young teenager. I've since lost most of my speed in that skill


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## Lola

Budda said:


> My picking wrist hates the idea of an upward sweep. It will always try and skip a string, and the feel of resistance is unpleasant. It's very weird, and very annoying.


OMG me too! I thought I was in a class by myself! That happens sometimes! I am not 100% consistent!

So as Dorian pointed out that he would like to practice arpeggios, I would to! I know that basically there a broken chord! How to practice them and apply the knowledge to a reality check?

I will never have the speed I want but I am getting a little faster! I love playing the blues because I can be as fast or as slow as I want depending on what I feel like playing and the tempo that the band wants to play!


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## fredyfreeloader

I am my own achilles heel. When it comes to music I have and still do refuse to try and play like any one particular guitarist. Fills, runs etc. or whatever you wish to call them are not played like SVR or BB King or any other player. I just do all the soloing or lead guitar the way a song feels to me not the way that song felt to someone else, that's just me. Like I said I am my own achilles heel, to old to change now.


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## Guitar101

This darn 12 string I rented for a month may end up being my achilles heel. I swear I could play it better when I brought it home. I still have 3 weeks left to get to a point that I can lay down the guitar on a couple of songs but I'm starting to wonder if I'm going to make it.


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## Budda

@Lola just practice the shapes. I know major and minor up to 5 strings, and u can play a diminished arpeggio across 3 or 4 strings with ease. I can't sweep 'em though. As long as you know if you need to play a major or a minor, it's the same shape anywhere on the fretboard


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## fretzel

I wish I could economy pick better.


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## Gizmo

Cleanliness and accuracy are what I really need to improve, not so much when I know what I'm going to play, but when I'm jamming to the blues I tend to get very sloppy. Maybe my fingers can't keep up with my brain.


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## Lola

Budda said:


> @Lola just practice the shapes. I know major and minor up to 5 strings, and u can play a diminished arpeggio across 3 or 4 strings with ease. I can't sweep 'em though. As long as you know if you need to play a major or a minor, it's the same shape anywhere on the fretboard




Hey Budda thanks for the tip. I am going to check it out right now! I can't sweep pick for the life of me either. Knowing the shapes are very good but I also want to know what notes I am playing in any given arpeggio~! That's the key for me! 

I really am a lazy sot! There is so much stuff I need to know. I used to have all the notes on the fretboard memorized and now because I don't focus on that it's not instant recall. Have to install Fretboard warrior again and stay with it! 

If you don't use it you lose it! 

I really need to prioritize my list! I am going to ask BW66 as I know he is a teacher!


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## Dorian2

Just goes to show you that everyone has something to work on. Much of the other techniques and such are also things that I have to ramp up on quite a bit. I can also guarantee you that someone like Steve Vai could easily come in here and jot down a number of items to work on that have eluded him. Certainly at a different level, but still.

If only we could be assimilated. 

We are Borg!


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## Budda

Lola, I don't give a damn what notes are *in* the arpeggio, I just need to know the root and type. From there it's just knowing the shapes. Don't overcomplicate it!


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## Robert1950

Gizmo said:


> Cleanliness and accuracy are what I really need to improve, not so much when I know what I'm going to play, but when I'm jamming to the blues I tend to get very sloppy. *Maybe my fingers can't keep up with my brain*.


Oh! I know that feeling so well.


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## Dorian2

So regarding that upstroke issue that some are having. Including myself. I've been able to make clean, fast (not shredilicious though), run up pretty much any scale or piece of music for a long time now. But I've always had a hard time going back down from the high E. Especially the E B G strings. Particularly using all 4 fingers of my left hand.

I've figured it out for myself. Just playing really slow and there is a definite different feeling there. It's stemming from my pinky finger strength. and the position variance of my left hand on the higher strings..which is in better than many peoples pinky shape, but not nearly as strong or precise (also to do with strength), in that little used finger normally. At least little used in a fast run context anyway.

So I spent 15 minutes running down 2 chromatic notes each string from the high e up stroke to the B and G strings and back to E, up and down each fret from the 1st to the 12th. On my acoustic. As fast as possible with clarity. It'll be a lot stronger in a couple of weeks. It's going to be a daily 10 or 15 minutes routine daily. Thanks for the idea of taking an old concept that I've used for years to apply to something similar but not quite. I've used it for 4 fingers for years, but never exclusivly for the pinky strength only.

Hopefully it'll help out with both strength and upstroke issues considering I have to also pay close attention to the alternate picking. It can also help with 2 string sweeps depending on the number of notes you choose on each string. The variations are pretty much endless.

Just don't over do it please. You WILL feel the pain.


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## Dorian2

There's a lot going on with the above post with both hands, as well as what you can work on using it. I tried it with slides and hammer ons/pull offs, string skipping,across 3, 4, 5 all strings with a bunch of variations. Hell, you can even work on intervals with it. Pick a b3 and run with it for a week. You'll sure know the minor 3rd sound after that! It's a damned fine, though non musical sounding, exercise. I just think of a horror movie sound track when I'm doing it. Works for me anyways.


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## Lola

Budda said:


> Lola, I don't give a damn what notes are *in* the arpeggio, I just need to know the root and type. From there it's just knowing the shapes. Don't overcomplicate it!


I know, I know! But that's the thing! I need to know what notes I am playing! That's just me though! I have moderate OCD! It's just part of the process! It drives me crazy if I don't know! Mental illness with a positive outcome! I need things to be organized , compartmentalized and have it make logical sense to me! That's a part of me that I really can't change! 

PS All the handles of the coffee mugs in my cupboard have to point north! It's weird but it's who I am!


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## LexxM3

Lola said:


> All the handles of the coffee mugs in my cupboard have to point north!


That's an excellent idea! Eliminates all confusion, why didn't I think of that. Off to the cupboards ... hm, now where is north from here?


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## Budda

Lola said:


> I know, I know! But that's the thing! I need to know what notes I am playing! That's just me though! I have moderate OCD! It's just part of the process! It drives me crazy if I don't know! Mental illness with a positive outcome! I need things to be organized , compartmentalized and have it make logical sense to me! That's a part of me that I really can't change!
> 
> PS All the handles of the coffee mugs in my cupboard have to point north! It's weird but it's who I am!


Carry on!


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## Lola

Diatonic chord substitutions relating to Arpeggios! OMG I don't understand this at all! I can't even wrap my brain around this let alone apply this to the fret board! This is craziness! This will be one for my teacher to explain to me!


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## bw66

Lola said:


> I am going to ask BW66 as I know he is a teacher!


Ha!

It's hard to deal with technique issues without seeing what is actually going on, but here, free of charge, is my method for dealing with 99% of technique issues:

*Slow down!!!*

If you are working on a passage that you are having difficulty with, slow it down to the point where you can play it perfectly - both notes and rhythms, and musically, with good technique* - with a metronome (or a recording using "slow-downer" software). Once you can play it to your satisfaction, then you can try to speed it up. *Slowly.* In about 4% increments (one notch on a standard metronome). Don't increase speed until you can play it right. Some days will be better than others and you may have to slow down again. Sometimes the speed will come up fairly quickly and sometimes there will be plateaus. Try to get so that you can play 4% faster than your target speed. 

There, in a nutshell, is how I make much of my income - so keep it to yourselves.



[*** Note: In his book, "The Music Lesson", Victor Wooten talks about "good technique" versus "orthodox technique" - the former being essential, the latter, not so much. I'm inclined to agree.]


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## zontar

Lots of stuff I can't do well, some stuff I can--and lots I can fake.
My biggest one may be my ears--they have improved over the years--but I still can't figure out other people's stuff as easily as I like to.
And I have worked at developing that.


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## J-75

Economy fretting
First finger vibrato (ala BB)


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## Mooh

bw66 said:


> Ha!
> 
> It's hard to deal with technique issues without seeing what is actually going on, but here, free of charge, is my method for dealing with 99% of technique issues:
> 
> *Slow down!!!*
> 
> If you are working on a passage that you are having difficulty with, slow it down to the point where you can play it perfectly - both notes and rhythms, and musically, with good technique* - with a metronome (or a recording using "slow-downer" software). Once you can play it to your satisfaction, then you can try to speed it up. *Slowly.* In about 4% increments (one notch on a standard metronome). Don't increase speed until you can play it right. Some days will be better than others and you may have to slow down again. Sometimes the speed will come up fairly quickly and sometimes there will be plateaus. Try to get so that you can play 4% faster than your target speed.
> 
> There, in a nutshell, is how I make much of my income - so keep it to yourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> [*** Note: In his book, "The Music Lesson", Victor Wooten talks about "good technique" versus "orthodox technique" - the former being essential, the latter, not so much. I'm inclined to agree.]



I will echo this.

Slow and smooth is always better than fast and sloppy.

If you keep making mistakes you are going too fast, and in effect practicing mistakes. Why practice mistakes?

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different (ie, better) results is illogical.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Guitar101

You young players have got it made with all these "slow downers" that are available today. Back when we tried to slow down a song to help learn it, it would change the key of the song and we would have to re-tune the guitar to compensate. I just thought you should know how spoiled you are.


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## JBFairthorne

Lola said:


> I know, I know! But that's the thing! I need to know what notes I am playing! That's just me though! I have moderate OCD! It's just part of the process! It drives me crazy if I don't know! Mental illness with a positive outcome! I need things to be organized , compartmentalized and have it make logical sense to me! That's a part of me that I really can't change!
> 
> PS All the handles of the coffee mugs in my cupboard have to point north! It's weird but it's who I am!


Seriously, don't worry about the notes themselves. Worry about the note within the scale. Is it a 1, b3, 5, 7? Once you begin to understand the relationship of the note WITHIN the scale, you'll be better able to use those notes at the right time. This will also help a little with your arpeggios and understanding what scale tones are important for defining the chord and which aren't. The notes themselves will change from key to key (or chord to chord), but the scale values won't. This way you get to satisfy your OCD urge while actually learning something that will apply to EVERY song you play.


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## Lola

This is extremely interesting and very thought provoking! Andrew Wasson is an amazing guitar player and teacher!


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## Lola

This is always good too!

http://www.justinguitar.com/en/AR-001-Major7arp.php


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## Lola

So you know that I love to play rock and blues, what do you think would be the most useful arpeggios to learn?

Major 7th, minor 7th? Dominant 7th? so much shit to learn! I just want to choose stuff to learn that will be useful to me and me being able to apply to the fret board in real life! Don't need to waste my valuable time learning stuff I don't need!


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## Electraglide

I don't have one unless it's which guitar to play at what time. When I play I sound like me and that's all that matters. If someone can recognize what I'm playing, that's a bonus. I have arthritis in both hands, wrists and most of the other places. It's a bitch when one or both hands freeze. Some might look on the fact that I play by ear and can't read music as a problem....I don't. Around here the coffee cup handles point every which way including up.


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## Electraglide

Lola said:


> So you know that I love to play rock and blues, what do you think would be the most useful arpeggios to learn?
> 
> Major 7th, minor 7th? Dominant 7th? so much shit to learn! I just want to choose stuff to learn that will be useful to me and me being able to apply to the fret board in real life! Don't need to waste my valuable time learning stuff I don't need!


What's a arpeggio? As far as learning stuff you ''don't need'', how do you know what you are going to or not going to need down the road?


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## GTmaker

How about this approach for narrowing down most of the Achilles problems..

Why not just start learning songs from your favorite artist/ style of music.
It really doesn't matter how you learn the songs...
By listening to them a hundred times
By getting tabs off the net ( usually wrong but its a start)
By going to You tube and listening to someone showing you all the chords and note for note solos..

The point is that if you learn songs to the best of your ability, you will automatically be learning a shitload of theory.
You wont know that a certain run is a "forth mode Lydian scale" but you will know how to play it...
ISN'T THAT THE WHOLE POINT !!!!! PLAYING THE MUSIC.
Bottom line, you just learned a bunch of good songs and you play them well...
If you cant play them well, just practice till you do...

Ok...back to my Achilles heel ...
remembering the first line of the third verse... sometimes that's a bitch.

keep on rockin.
G.


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## Budda

Lola said:


> So you know that I love to play rock and blues, what do you think would be the most useful arpeggios to learn?
> 
> Major 7th, minor 7th? Dominant 7th? so much shit to learn! I just want to choose stuff to learn that will be useful to me and me being able to apply to the fret board in real life! Don't need to waste my valuable time learning stuff I don't need!


Learn whatever is used in the music you want to play and/or write.


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## Lola

GTmaker said:


> How about this approach for narrowing down most of the Achilles problems..
> 
> Why not just start learning songs from your favorite artist/ style of music.
> It really doesn't matter how you learn the songs...
> By listening to them a hundred times
> By getting tabs off the net ( usually wrong but its a start)
> By going to You tube and listening to someone showing you all the chords and note for note solos..
> 
> The point is that if you learn songs to the best of your ability, you will automatically be learning a shitload of theory.
> You wont know that a certain run is a "forth mode Lydian scale" but you will know how to play it...
> ISN'T THAT THE WHOLE POINT !!!!! PLAYING THE MUSIC.
> Bottom line, you just learned a bunch of good songs and you play them well...
> If you cant play them well, just practice till you do...
> 
> Ok...back to my Achilles heel ...
> remembering the first line of the third verse... sometimes that's a bitch.
> 
> keep on rockin.
> G.


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## Lola

I just happened to be on Robert Renman's You tube channel and came upon an amazing blues with some really cool licks! It's in E minor but you can transpose to any key! I bought it for $6.99! A great lesson and tons of licks! This is what I call really fun learning. As soon as I heard this song I knew that I could learn them! It will take some practice but you can dissect these licks and use them with stuff you already know! You just build up your repertoire and can pull them out of the bag when needed! They're not complicated licks but a little quicker than what I am used to. So not only does this help but I will be able to take to rehearsal with me and have some real fun! It is worth more than what he's asking!


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## Guest

GTmaker said:


> .. remembering the first line of the third verse... sometimes that's a bitch.


'third verse, same as the first' lol.


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## Adcandour

I have small hands. As a boy, I prayed to God every night that I be blessed with Eric Clapton's perfect fingers, but, while fixated on this desire, I totally forgot that God doesn't exist. Doh.

In retrospect, I should have be practicing instead of praying to compensate for my achilles hands (my little greek tragedies).


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## Dorian2

lol


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## Robert1950

(In an Austrian accent) I have weak puny little girly man hands


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## High/Deaf

I used to have a big poster of Steve Howe playing his 175. His hands were positively monstrous - looked like could reach 8 or 9 frets. Some of that was a fisheye lens but some of that was genetic luck. Me, not so much.

My achilles heal in one word: theory

I was lucky to be born with a good ear for intervals - I say that because my Mom has it too. I can figure out about 95% of the songs I hear by the end. And probably 75% of those by the chorus. Don't know why, I can just see the chords in my mind. And that has probably been partly responsible for never bucking up and learning the theory. It's ultimately never stopped me from playing what I want, but I know with some effort I could much better understand why the notes I like are correct - or not.


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## Adcandour

Robert1950 said:


> (In an Austrian accent) I have weak puny little girly man hands


It's comments like this that prevent me from playing on stage in front of thousands - maybe even 10s of thousands.

I'd give you the finger, but simply can't afford to...


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## Dorian2

High/Deaf said:


> I used to have a big poster of Steve Howe playing his 175. His hands were positively monstrous - looked like could reach 8 or 9 frets. Some of that was a fisheye lens but some of that was genetic luck. Me, not so much.
> 
> My achilles heal in one word: theory
> 
> I was lucky to be born with a good ear for intervals - I say that because my Mom has it too. I can figure out about 95% of the songs I hear by the end. And probably 75% of those by the chorus. Don't know why, I can just see the chords in my mind. And that has probably been partly responsible for never bucking up and learning the theory. It's ultimately never stopped me from playing what I want, but I know with some effort I could much better understand why the notes I like are correct - or not.



Good post.
I played solely by ear for a long time as well. Except for what I picked up in piano lessons. I've learnt songs by ear forever....still do. But I also know a shit load of theory and how to apply it just because I wanted to go the post secondary music route. The good thing about knowing theory for me now is I know how to get to something a lot quicker with less movement. But most of what I learn is still by ear. As it should be. Knowing theory really helps in improv situations as well. And as anyone who has played live to an audience knows, you have to know where you are if you screw up right in the middle of things. Especially if the end of a tune turns into a random jam for some reason.


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## zontar

Hey--I have figured out stuff by ear--so I can do it--it's just not as developed as I'd like it to be.
And my ear is good enough to play fretless bass.

Arpeggios were mentioned--and sometimes I nail them, other times they nail me.


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## johnnyshaka

Stupid barre chords and getting my ring and pinky fingers to work well independently!! ARGH!!


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## Lola

johnnyshaka said:


> Stupid barre chords and getting my ring and pinky fingers to work well independently!! ARGH!!


That's exactly what I said too! Stupid barre chords~ I have to practice these all the time! If I don't then I get rusty and sound even worse! Trying to get your index finger to apply even pressure across the bar of the notes! A good song to practice barre chords was Fly away by Lenny Kravitz! Do full barres wherever you can! I have probably done this song a million times or more practicing! Barre chords are not easy but once you get the lay of the land you can pretty much nail them.


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## JBFairthorne

Lola said:


> That's exactly what I said too! Stupid barre chords~ I have to practice these all the time! If I don't then I get rusty and sound even worse! Trying to get your index finger to apply even pressure across the bar of the notes! A good song to practice barre chords was Fly away by Lenny Kravitz! Do full barres wherever you can! I have probably done this song a million times or more practicing! Barre chords are not easy but once you get the lay of the land you can pretty much nail them.


Think that's tough? Wait until you get to the point that you wanna lift a section of the barring finger to hit an open note within the chord while maintaining the barre on the other strings. It's easier to lift the tip of the finger for say a G/E barre or something, but tricky to lift the bottom, basically hyper-extending a knuckle. Funny though, I have no problem lifting the tip of my index finger for a G/E barre chord if I start from the G, but I can't seem to start with a G/E with the finger tip pre-lifted.


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## Guest

Quickly jumping to the barred B minor on the 2nd fret.


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## Lola

While my guitar gently weeps comes to mind!


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## guitarman2

For me its fingerpicking with an alternate thumb bass in the style of chet atkins and merle travis. I do hybrid fingerpicking like Albert Lee but I've never been able to master the style more like Chet Atkins. I can do some basic stuff but for the amount of years I've been playing that has always been tough for me. I admit though that I haven't put as much effort in to it as I could have.


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## fretzel

^^^^^^same here. Travis picking has always eluded me. But like you I haven't practiced it enough.


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## High/Deaf

Me three.

I just love when Steve Howe so easily roams from frantic solos to, suddenly, some beautiful Travis picking. I loved it - just not enough to put in the time. I get by with hybrid picking but I love the alternating bass and melody line that Chet and Merle (and many others, like Ronny Prophet) could pull off.


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## GTmaker

High/Deaf said:


> Me three.
> I just love when Steve Howe so easily roams from frantic solos to, suddenly, some beautiful Travis picking. I loved it - just not enough to put in the time. I get by with hybrid picking but I love the alternating bass and melody line that Chet and Merle (and many others, like Ronny Prophet) could pull off.


would this be along the lines that Chet and Merle would do.
G.


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## High/Deaf

@GTmaker I only listened to the first half but, yes, that's the basic idea.

the guy on left (Scotty, I assume) did a lot of melody on the bass strings with his thumb while comping with his other fingers, whereas quite often you'll hear the bass line with the thumb while the melody is played with the other fingers, but potato/potato. IMO, a lot of skill shown there.


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## guitarman2

More like this.


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## guitarman2

Or something more fun.


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## Adcandour

guitarman2 said:


> For me its fingerpicking with an alternate thumb bass in the style of chet atkins and merle travis. I do hybrid fingerpicking like Albert Lee but I've never been able to master the style more like Chet Atkins. I can do some basic stuff but for the amount of years I've been playing that has always been tough for me. I admit though that I haven't put as much effort in to it as I could have.





fretzel said:


> ^^^^^^same here. Travis picking has always eluded me. But like you I haven't practiced it enough.





High/Deaf said:


> Me three.
> 
> I just love when Steve Howe so easily roams from frantic solos to, suddenly, some beautiful Travis picking. I loved it - just not enough to put in the time. I get by with hybrid picking but I love the alternating bass and melody line that Chet and Merle (and many others, like Ronny Prophet) could pull off.


I had never even tried this travis style picking until about 2 weeks ago. I stumbled upon it in this book I bought called "*one-man guitar jam*" by Hal Leonard, and I am able to do it in a respectable fashion (I think). 

I strongly recommend this tab book. It was $20 and comes with a password to access the music on line. The program has a built-in music player that can slow down and speed up a track, etc.

I bought the book to learn how to do some walking bass guitar style, but ventured off into other areas. All the lessons are now my go-to riffs.


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## Dorian2

So......we go from the original post with Arps to friggin Travis picking with Chet Atkins and Jerry Reed? FU guys!!!!!! If that's your so called "Achilles Heel", I Quit!

J/K. Travis picking is a technique I've always thought about learning but never took the time to do it. And thnks for those videos guys. I'm a big Chet Atkins fan, and anyone who even looks at a guitar should check his brilliance out.

Now that I'm attacking 2 Achilles heels, Arps and Acoustic guitar (never really played much acoustic after the Classical, but it has been growing on me), I might try out the Travis stuff at some point. Learning this one on Acoustic right now, along with Gallows Pole:






I'm thinking I have yet another Achilles heel. I like too many styles of music, along with Hard Rock/Metal/Death Metal/Black Metal, which are my "get the wife out of the house" go to's. MJF$#


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## Robert1950

I played the alto sax in high school for 4 years. I learned to read music. Give me a grade of around C at the time. But I have forgotten and feel an aversion to learning it for guitar now. Not just laziness but an "Oh Shit" feeling when I think about.

I have gotten by with learning by ear, but that I would give myself a C- grade at most.

When ear can't do it, which is often, I go to YouTube. I have always been more of a visual learner. Give me a B grade on learning by watching.

When I can't figure it all out, I go to Tab as a last resort. Not as much an aversion as reading music, but still there. I have used it fill in some gaps in which watching only wouldn't work. I did that for the league of rock thing in 2014 when I was playing bass. Give me a D or a D- here mostly because it is the least enjoyable for me compared to ear and watching, and when I do use it, it is usually in combination with watching a YouTube.


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## Lola

My guitar teacher gave me these exercises that are awkward and tiring! It's doing chromatic trills up the fret board then holding my middle finger down while the third finger does a trill and then the third finger stays put and the pinky gets to do the work and then it's a variation there of!

The string skipping is getting much better. I try to do this a couple of times a day! Maybe 5 minutes of that at a time! I am getting more fluid as a result!! At first though I was atrocious!


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## cboutilier

I have never been able to get my brain to separate my thumb and fingers well enough to Travis pick with a consistent bass line. I always hybrid pick but there's none of that one man band element to it. I do a lot of thumb and finger picking, ala Mark Knopfler on Sultans or Money for Nothing, but I still can't get that mental separation to make that steady bass line.


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## garrettdavis275

For me it's a tossup between talent and discipline. If it requires either of those things I'm generally fucked.


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## jbealsmusic

For me it's playing tastefully and anything that involves bending the strings. I've never had a problem with complex chord shapes, fingerpicking, or quickly running through scale patterns. But if you ask me to do a bunch of bends and vibratos, expect to confuse me with Kirk Hammett.


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## guitarman2

Another weakness for me is copying songs (for bands that require it) exactly note for note. I think its not as much of a weakness as I think, though as when pushed I seem to be able to manage. Laziness plays a part in it as well. So I can copy exact but it does take me longer than it should.


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## flyswatter

I'm a left-handed player who has always played right-handed, so my Achilles heel is my right hand that always needs a lot of extra work to keep up with my left hand. Mark Knopfler is also a lefty that plays righty, so his virtuosity has always been an inspiration to me.


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## Dorian2

flyswatter said:


> I'm a left-handed player who has always played right-handed, so my Achilles heel is my right hand that always needs a lot of extra work to keep up with my left hand. Mark Knopfler is also a lefty that plays righty, so his virtuosity has always been an inspiration to me.


I can imagine that's a big one. I've tried playing my guitar backward before. And writing left handed as a righty. No coordination at all. I'll assume it would take a bit of time to train your right hand to do what you want it to do.


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## guitarman2

flyswatter said:


> I'm a left-handed player who has always played right-handed, so my Achilles heel is my right hand that always needs a lot of extra work to keep up with my left hand. Mark Knopfler is also a lefty that plays righty, so his virtuosity has always been an inspiration to me.


I'm also in that boat which is one reason why the alternate thumb bass fingerpicking is always a challenge. 
That being said pull offs and hammer ons are always a strong point for me.


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## flyswatter

Dorian2 said:


> I can imagine that's a big one. I've tried playing my guitar backward before. And writing left handed as a righty. No coordination at all. I'll assume it would take a bit of time to train your right hand to do what you want it to do.


It took time but I've been playing 32 years, so am long past the point where it is much of an actual handicap. But I do still probably practice right hand technique in learning songs more than a player of my longevity normally would. 



guitarman2 said:


> I'm also in that boat which is one reason why the alternate thumb bass fingerpicking is always a challenge.
> That being said pull offs and hammer ons are always a strong point for me.


Yes, it took me a long time to be able to do any of that folk/ Travis/ alternating bass type stuff. I'm still not great at it, even though I've faked my way through countless acoustic gigs without the audience throwing their Birkenstocks at me.


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