# About pickups for an acoustic guitar -- without destructive installation.



## JacquesP (May 23, 2019)

Hey folks,

I've read so many threads/posts here about "added" pickups for acoustic guitars and it has become quite a chore to "visit" them all, so I am asking for information here.
Here are the criteria:

1. Non-intrusive ... I don't want to start digging holes in my Norman 6 strings acoustic guitar.
2. Easy installation ... read: VERY easy installation.
2. Great sound ... a must !
3. I don't play gigs, nor do I need blasting the sound all over the house!
4. Would be "connected" to my little Crate V18 tube amp.
5. (added "maybe" question): wireless ??? Does it even exist?

As mentioned earlier, there are quite a few choices out there and of course, everyone has his/her own favourite, so a couple of suggestions would be welcome. Shopping Canadian would also be great.
Thanks!


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## Dave B4 (Jan 11, 2020)

For Canadian, check out Schatten, based in Waterloo, ON

I had the K&K Pure mini installed in my Larrivee this past summer. Quite happy with it. Lots of positive reviews out there to research.

Both of these options require reaming out the end pin hole, but are otherwise non-destructive.

good luck!


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

K&K


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

K&K pure Mini in Larrivee. Never use it, don't even know it's there. Sounds good tho'.


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## ol' 58 (Jul 12, 2019)

Installed a K&K in my S&P. Sounds great.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I use K&K and Shatten mostly, but also have Fishman Rare Earth soundhole pickups. To my ears, the K&K is the most acoustic sounding and the Rare Earth is the best with FX.


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## NashvilleDeluxe (Feb 7, 2018)

The biggest hurdle in your sound chain will be that amp. I just did a K&K-style install on Sunday, and it sounded great through the Fishman Loudbox. It sounded wrong and was prone to feedback through a tube amp. If your Norman is a bit muffled in the bass response (they can be braced a bit heavily), PM me and I'll direct you to a wider-pad K&K style meant for 12-strings that captures more bass response. And they cost $25, complete with 3M adhesives and a decent output jack...definitely not Canadian-made, though.

Wireless systems can run from $50 to the thousands. Here's a "decent" sample: Donner New Version Rechargeable Guitar Wireless System DWS-3 Digital Guitar Bass Audio Transmitter and Receiver: Amazon.ca: Musical Instruments, Stage & Studio
Will at La Grange Guitar Workshop


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## nbs2005 (Mar 21, 2018)

Another option, Audio Technika (sp) AT-70 Pro microphone. Clips on. You can then run to any XLR input (you'd need a converter cable to go into your amp; the mic has a battery for phantom power) I use mine form home recording.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

If you don't play gigs, what do you need a pickup for?


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Lots of great suggestions, if the OP is just trying to make his acoustic louder. But I suspect he may be going for an electric sound, in which case his best pickup would be one of the two that comes in either a CV Tele or Epi LP (i.e. buy an electric guitar, don't try and get your acoustic there).


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Well JacquesP, I went on that journey some years ago...
I guess you want to experiment some amp effects and monitor yourself with earphones, don't you ?
I had some installed by professional luthiers, and did install some by myself, say K&K and LRBaggs combos.
Almost all mics or pickups systems need a hole at bottom (enlarging the endpin hole).
I did not install any that requires a hole on the higher side of the body.

The easiest system I met was the LRBaggs pickup installed at the sound hole.
I did not try it : it is a pickup like those for electric guitars and does not work with nylon.

There is another one I cannot remember the brand : A microphone loosely fixed
outside the guitar body. I did not try either.

While I was writing, came to mind a simple mic and a system I made a critique of here, iRig, which is a simple mic for recording and you can monitor yourself while playing : It clips to the soundhole, but you need a iPhone or iPad to connect to the devoted app.

You have to look inside the body, under the bridge to see how the bracing could 
interfere or not in case you would consider the LRBaggs iBeam mics.

The K&K tiny mics used to come in three versions whether the guitar is a nylon classical (four mics) or a steel folk (three mics). By the way a "pre-phase" would help with feedback issue...

These are quite easy to install inside the body under the bridge provided you follow the instructions.

Now, if you want a piezzo under the saddle, they are the easiest to install but you will get a crude less acoustic sound.

Anyway, my journey ended when I decided to put my money on acoustics rather than on electronics, though I kept some of my electrified acoustics.

I still have K&K Pure Classic on my Ramirez R-4, K&K Combo on my Taylor 510 (as suggested by the luthier at local music store, a Taylor dealer) and LRBaggs Combo I did install on my Larrivée L-03koa (replacing something else).

Now, a simple mic like Shure SM57 on a stand does the job...

Hope it helps...


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

JacquesP said:


> I don't play gigs, nor do I need blasting the sound all over the house!


what do you need the pickup for in that case? 

recording?
effects? 

j


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## JacquesP (May 23, 2019)

Sketchy Jeff said:


> what do you need the pickup for in that case?
> 
> recording?
> effects?
> ...


A bit louder sound and effects mostly.


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## JacquesP (May 23, 2019)

Frenchy99 said:


> Yep Garnet made.
> 
> Its a small 15 watts PA head. Probably under the lancer name given the L serial number.
> 
> ...





Dave B4 said:


> For Canadian, check out Schatten, based in Waterloo, ON
> 
> I had the K&K Pure mini installed in my Larrivee this past summer. Quite happy with it. Lots of positive reviews out there to research.
> 
> ...





Wardo said:


> K&K





KapnKrunch said:


> K&K pure Mini in Larrivee. Never use it, don't even know it's there. Sounds good tho'.





ol' 58 said:


> Installed a K&K in my S&P. Sounds great.





Mooh said:


> I use K&K and Shatten mostly, but also have Fishman Rare Earth soundhole pickups. To my ears, the K&K is the most acoustic sounding and the Rare Earth is the best with FX.


Looks like the K&K would be the best choice.
Thanks for the info.


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## JacquesP (May 23, 2019)

NashvilleDeluxe said:


> The biggest hurdle in your sound chain will be that amp. I just did a K&K-style install on Sunday, and it sounded great through the Fishman Loudbox. *It sounded wrong and was prone to feedback through a tube amp.* If your Norman is a bit muffled in the bass response (they can be braced a bit heavily), PM me and I'll direct you to a wider-pad K&K style meant for 12-strings that captures more bass response. And they cost $25, complete with 3M adhesives and a decent output jack...definitely not Canadian-made, though.
> 
> Wireless systems can run from $50 to the thousands. Here's a "decent" sample: Donner New Version Rechargeable Guitar Wireless System DWS-3 Digital Guitar Bass Audio Transmitter and Receiver: Amazon.ca: Musical Instruments, Stage & Studio
> Will at La Grange Guitar Workshop


That's my luck! I but also have a "mini" Fender Mustang I amp which I use very seldom ... preferring the tube amp sound. 
I'll PM you.
Thanks.


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## JacquesP (May 23, 2019)

nbs2005 said:


> Another option, Audio Technika (sp) AT-70 Pro microphone. Clips on. You can then run to any XLR input (you'd need a converter cable to go into your amp; the mic has a battery for phantom power) I use mine form home recording.


I checked it out ... very unobtrusive too. Another option.

Thanks.


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## JacquesP (May 23, 2019)

High/Deaf said:


> Lots of great suggestions, if the OP is just trying to make his acoustic louder. But I suspect he may be going for an electric sound, in which case his best pickup would be one of the two that comes in either a CV Tele or Epi LP (i.e. buy an electric guitar, don't try and get your acoustic there).


Louder (not by much) and some effects. So you're saying not to try and get the acoustic fitted with a pickup? Not sure if I understand you properly.
Thanks.


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## JacquesP (May 23, 2019)

mawmow said:


> Well JacquesP, I went on that journey some years ago...
> I guess you want to experiment some amp effects and monitor yourself with earphones, don't you ?
> I had some installed by professional luthiers, and did install some by myself, say K&K and LRBaggs combos.
> Almost all mics or pickups systems need a hole at bottom (enlarging the endpin hole).
> ...


That is an interesting read and thanks for posting.
Now my head is spinning!
I suppose that if I want something easy to install, non-invasive and with a good sound, I'm better off with a simple mike on a stand or a clip-on ???


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I have a Traynor acoustic amp which is pretty good but it weighs more than 40 pounds so lately I’ve taken to running the K&K guitars through a Fender 57 custom deluxe; sounds ok enough with the big ass speaker in the Fender and I only have to take one amp. Ray Wylie Hubbard runs his acoustic Gibson through a Princeton or something and he does alright with it. So if it’s good enough for Ray it’s good enough for me .. lol


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## JacquesP (May 23, 2019)

Wardo said:


> I have a Traynor acoustic amp which is pretty good but it weighs more than 40 pounds so lately I’ve taken to running the K&K guitars through a Fender 57 custom deluxe; sounds ok enough with the big ass speaker in the Fender and I only have to take one amp. Ray Wylie Hubbard runs his acoustic Gibson through a Princeton or something and he does alright with it. So if it’s good enough for Ray it’s good enough for me .. lol


Got it !
That's another + for the K&K.
My choices are down to just two or three now. Either the K&K or a clip-on, and last but not least, a simple mike on a stand!


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## ol' 58 (Jul 12, 2019)

JacquesP said:


> That's my luck! I but also have a "mini" Fender Mustang I amp which I use very seldom ... preferring the tube amp sound.
> I'll PM you.
> Thanks.


When I installed my K&K, I played it through the same amp, a Mustang I. It sounded much better through my little VOX Mini 5, which has a “line” setting for acoustic. But the real winner is using my Boss Katana 50 MkII, which I traded my Mustang in for. It also has an acoustic setting. Warm and mellow tones available there.


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## JacquesP (May 23, 2019)

ol' 58 said:


> When I installed my K&K, I played it through the same amp, a Mustang I. It sounded much better through my little VOX Mini 5, which has a “line” setting for acoustic. But the real winner is using my Boss Katana 50 MkII, which I traded my Mustang in for. It also has an acoustic setting. Warm and mellow tones available there.


I've heard a lot about those Boss Katana amps. The first time was when I was looking for guitar lessons and I reached Justin Guitar ... he (Justin) surely has a commercial association with the amp maker 'cause he brags about it all the time !


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## Brunman (Apr 12, 2019)

I installed a K&K on my friends HD 28, sounds amazing.


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## ol' 58 (Jul 12, 2019)

JacquesP said:


> I've heard a lot about those Boss Katana amps. The first time was when I was looking for guitar lessons and I reached Justin Guitar ... he (Justin) surely has a commercial association with the amp maker 'cause he brags about it all the time !


I have no skin in the game, but I’m amazed at how many online evaluators and YouTube guitar gurus rave about the Katanas. I’m too new at the game to compare anything to anything, other than the Katana, Mustang, and VOX Mini. But it seems those in the know like the Katana a lot.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Biggest thing with making an acoustic pickup system sound good is using a proper acoustic guitar IR. My friends tele with piezo into his fishman aura may out D18 someone's k&k D18 to PA. 

To that effect, mic'ing your acoustic will probably sound better than whatever pickup you put in it. Still only 1 cable to run to your effects unit and amp.

As you've seen, there's many ways to do it.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Budda said:


> Biggest thing with making an acoustic pickup system sound good is using a proper acoustic guitar IR. My friends tele with piezo into his fishman aura may out D18 someone's k&k D18 to PA.
> 
> To that effect, mic'ing your acoustic will probably sound better than whatever pickup you put in it. Still only 1 cable to run to your effects unit and amp.
> 
> As you've seen, there's many ways to do it.


My Martin D-18e Retro has a built in Fishman Aura.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

JacquesP said:


> That is an interesting read and thanks for posting.
> Now my head is spinning!
> I suppose that if I want something easy to install, non-invasive and with a good sound, I'm better off with a simple mike on a stand or a clip-on ???


Sorry, as I gave up with electronics, I cannot say which would work best.


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## oheare (Jun 18, 2012)

My personal fave is the Sunrise soundhole pickup. I've had one in my Beneteau for, uh, over 30 years. It's not quite a perfect representation of the sound of the guitar, but I like the sound; I bought my first one because some of my heroes used them (Leo Kottke, Richard Thompson, Bonnie Raitt, others); having tried a bunch of other non-undersaddle pickups, this was the first one that made me put an endpin jack in the guitar.

They're not cheap, though. The 12th Fret in Toronto has them for $425, they're $320US at sunrisepickups.com.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

JacquesP said:


> Louder (not by much) and some effects. So you're saying not to try and get the acoustic fitted with a pickup? Not sure if I understand you properly.
> Thanks.


Not saying "don't install a pickup", just don't do what many of us did in the 70s - took an old acoustic and shoehorned a crappy pickup in the soundhole so we could get distortion (and feedback, tons of feedback) through an amp. 

For what you're wanting to do, I'd say a K&K. That's what's in my Lowden and I like it. But for best results, it has to be terminated correctly, either with a preamp or a Hi-Z mixer input, like inputs 1 & 2 on a Mackie Onyx.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Hey !
You could find some other ideas in the last edition 
of Wood and Steel quarterly on Taylor guitars website. ;-)


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## JacquesP (May 23, 2019)

Thanks a bunch guys!
Lots of good advice and suggestions.
I am replying very late here ... sorry about that.
I haven't yet come around and decided what to do.


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