# Overdrive Shootout For High Gain - NON Boutique



## keto (May 23, 2006)

I would have posted here first but, you know, middle eastern hackers and etc., so please forgive the copy/paste from tgp.

So, I'm on the hunt for an overdrive (or 2) to use with my JCA22H. I'm looking for something to add some thickness and 'roar' on power chords, it also has to play well with palm mute chunking but it's not my #1 desire to tighten things up as I know is often the case when looking for OD with higher gain.

I set the amp crunch channel gain low/vol high and use as a clean tone, very rarely do I use it for crunch naked/no pedals. So the OD also has to work with this channel as an inbetween tone for some rhythm parts.

I use the amp overdrive (high gain) channel with the gain right around noon or juuust before, channel volume about the same in our band environment. I love the amp and how it sounds but want to thicken this sound up just a bit and, again, if possible add a bit of rolling roar on sustained chords.

I have lots of OD's here, but none of them are really boutique. I'm going to throw my JHS Superbolt into the contest, just to hear what it sounds like in this application/with this amp, but honestly I don't expect it to be a primary contender. Another one I'm not expecting much from is the Marshall Jackhammer, but I've used the OD side of that pedal as a primary distortion with MANY amps with great success, so I'll give it a run too, see if an old favourite can hang in this bunch. Last one that isn't really an OD but does behave like one with many guitar/amp combos is my Bosstone clone....again, not sure what to expect here.

I'll be doing the classic volume high/gain low/tone to taste configuration, and try to rest my ears every few. I'll be playing mainly the same songs/riffs repeatedly.

Just for giggles, I'm going to throw them each in the loop too (and the MXR 10-band EQ), just to see if there's a sound there I want.

Sorry, I won't be videoing the contest, it's going to take too many hours already and I'm not one for video editing.

Now entering the ring, here come the contenders!


Top Row: TC Spark Boost, Maxon OD808, Bad Monkey, Boss SD-1, Bosstone clone, JHS Superbolt
Bottom Row: BYOC 250+, MXR 10-band, Mod Tone Dyna Drive, Boss DS-1, Marshall JH-1 Jackhammer, Mooer Hustle Drive (OCD Clone)


Will report back. Will probably narrow down to 3-4 contenders and re-run the testing, this could take a couple days just for fun

- - - Updated - - -

So, a mini report on each:

OD808 - not as good with the crunch channel as some others, but real nice roar on the OD channel.
Bosstone - not suitable, tonestack is wrong and not adjustable. Fantastic through the crunch channel but just wrong wrong wrong for the OD side.
Spark - amazing. All 3 modes totally usable with the crunch channel. Mid boosted is superb with the OD channel. Also a very quiet pedal when engaged even at high gain. Has significantly more output than any other primary contender.
DS-1 - more muffled with tone down, brittle with tone up.
ModTone - though I think this is a modded DS-1, it was the biggest surprise. It sounded really good, both channels of the amp.
Superbolt - no. Not bad, but not great. Had some artifacts on long sustain.
Jackhammer - somewhat 'artificial' sounding. Played with the tone stack and levels a while but never got a great tone with the OD side of the amp.
Bad Monkey - I've always hated it, I gain a bit of respect for it here...didn't sound as good as the OD808 but was still good, and the added flexibility of the bass knob gives pause for thought.
Hustle/OCD - another very pleasant surprise, it was good. Added fatness and roar, but wanted a bit more of the mid hump it doesn't have.
SD-1 - my first impression was that it was more sizzly than I wanted, but it was great as a 2nd level with the crunch channel, and added both fatness and roar with the OD channel. I kept going back to it.

So, the next round contenders are:


And that is also, from left to right, my order of preference.
Side by side, nothing could beat the overall tone of the SD-1. It sounds outstanding with both amp channels, it gives great thump with power chords. The Boss has plenty of output, I was using it at max Vol, might turn it down just a hair. I think the Spark is a bit fatter (and certainly is quieter), but doesn't quite have the mids + roar the Boss pedal adds. For a long time the Spark was winning, but in the final pairing I just slightly, I mean I might even change my mind on a different day, but today preferred the SD-1. The OD808, not a thing wrong with it and, if I didn't have the others above it, would be happy to use it in this application - though I wish it had just a bit more output. The same can be said almost exactly for the ModTone Dyna Drive, but it doesn't lack for output. As noted in the first post, I've hated it with every other amp I've had since I owned it (probably 6-7 amps) but it was GREAT in this application. Not as middy as I wanted though.

I ran a few of the contenders through the loop of the amp, but didn't come out of that experience with anything I didn't already have. I had already decided on the SD-1 for out front, so didn't try it, the best of the rest was yet again the Spark Boost. I forgot to have my 18v adapter on hand for the MXR 10-band, so didn't get to use it today.

So, I think I'm going to put both the Spark and the SD-1 on the front end of my board, for slightly different flavours...and I use a Strat with very low output pups for a couple tunes, so having the clean boost of the Spark on hand won't be a bad thing.

I never would have put money on the cheapest (or maybe 2nd cheapest) Boss pedal you can buy in a 10 pedal shootout!


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

The SD-1 is definitely a favorite of mine. I've had mine for years and always used it for extra kick and high end sizzle when playing heavier rock and metal. 

In the same vein, you would probably love the MXR Badass Modified OD or the MXR GT-OD. The MXR Badass Modified OD is like an SD-1 but with much more range and with the added bonus of a 100Hz knob. Total versatility and the price is hard to beat. I just bought it to try it out and I'm definitely into it. My son seems to prefer the SD-1 because when I go in the studio, the SD-1 is the one that he's got plugged in to the JCM800.

I think my SD-1 is an older Japanese model but I'm not sure anymore. I remember changing out the electrolytics in it a couple of years ago and it brought it back to life.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

One of these days, you'll get to hear or try out my CMOS Driver; a cousin to the EHX Hot TUbes and Way Huge Red LLama (which is the sibling of the Anderton Tube Sound Fuzz that mine was derived from). It's my go-to pedal for over 30 years. Just the nicest grunt. The Hot Tubes re-issue should be decent, though, so don't discount it.

More on the boutique-IY side, I whipped up one of Fred Briggs' '64 Vintage Vox circuits (http://revolutiondeux.blogspot.ca/2012/02/fred-briggs-64-vintage-vox-tones-galore.html Really in the same league as a lot of the Lovepedal variations on the Electra overdrive), and I rather like it.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

"Sounds" like an interesting shootout. I did this with a group of friends. No unanimity on any pedals. It was a hoot.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Mark, I've built up a couple of Red Llama's and really like them. The one I have here quit working, I have to get in there with a multi meter one of these days.

Briggs' Vox thing looks simple enough, the only part I'm not familiar with is the SB340, is that a diode on the opposite side of the BAT? I guess I should do some google foo. Edit - yes, yes it is. Makes sense.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The SB340 is simply another Schottky diode. Maybe it has some "special properties" but likely it doesn't, any more than a 1N914 is "different" from a 1N4148, or a 1N34 is different from a 1N60. That is, it probably behaves a little differently under some circumstances that have absolutely nothing to do with what happens in an overdrive. Snag a pair of BAT46s or BAT41s or 1N5817s, or whatever, and you'll be fine. Heck, you can even leave out the 10k pot and diodes and it sounds fine. The pot and diodes are just for producing some compression/limiting. If you're feeding the circuit with a somewhat compressed signal, or feeding the pedal to an amp with tube rectifier sag, then you've already accomplished what that control does.

The critical thing in this circuit seems to be what's going on between the emitter and ground. The 82nf provides more gain for the upper mids and above, where the 10uf provides more modest gain for the bottom. The 22nf that parallels the 47k on the way to the volume pot assures that all the upper mid honk is preserved, while the 4n7 to ground keeps the fizz out.

I like my own take on the 4049-based overdrive better than the Llama. So did Stellan Lehrberg, although he extended my redesign into his "Slowfinger" design, that ups the parts count (but also the tonal control). I find those MosFets sound nicer if you hit them with a hot signal and don't ask them for too much drive/gain on their own, whereas Anderton's redesign and Tripps' tweaking put the burden on the 4049. I use an op-amp stage to do the pushing (as the Hot Tubes did, and as Anderton did in the first version of the TSF back in 76 or 77 in the GP issue with Jim Messina on the cover). I find the extra stage also lets me pre-shape the tone a little better to extract the better qualities from the invertor stages.

You can look for the 49-er project on the gaussmarkov site ( http://gaussmarkov.net/wordpress/circuits/forty-niner/ ), 








and the Slowfinger can be seen here: http://hem.passagen.se/st5534/burn.htm 

Personally, I like a simplified version of the 49-er without the resonant pre-boost. That is, just go from the output of the op-amp straight to C8. I find a bypass cap of .01uf or so between lugs 2 and 3 on the Drive pot is able to deliver some Rickenbacker-like tones at lower drive settings. There is wads of output, so you have some latitude to spice up the tone control with something that has a little more passive bleed if you want. Consider some of Jack Orman's thoughtful options here: http://www.muzique.com/lab/swtc.htm and here: http://www.muzique.com/lab/swtc3.htm

This is my pedal if I want to pretend I'm Mike Campbell. And who doesn't want to pretend that?


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## ElectricMojo (May 19, 2011)

Cool.
I love your posts mhammer, always super informative!


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I've continued to experiment a bit. I put the SD-1 in first position, and had the Spark as an alternative. Just for laughs and a change of flavour, I threw a RAT into position 2, but quickly discarded it. I threw the OD-808 on the board AND THERE IT WILL STAY. It's mayhem, and I might have to turn up my gate a touch, but MAN do the SD-1 and OD-808 stack well together, just a ripping tone! I still like the SD-1 best, and the more I experiment the more I like it, so most of the time that will be the main boost. But when LOTS just isn't enough.....


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Good thread Kent, thanks.

I really like my RetroSonic 808, it'll do mild O/D into distortion territory on its own,
but surely one of the best stacking pedals that I've tried too.

Some O/Ds, when stacked, can get a bit funky,
either by colouring the tone of the other pedal too much, or by getting too flubby. 
The 808 just seems to thicken the other pedal, putting it over the top.
Nice for a three stages of gain.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

One of the reasons why so many love the Analogman King of Tone is because it essentially does exactly what you describe. One channel can be set up to provide a rounded-off TS-808-like push into a Dist+ like channel. Forum member elliottmoose commissioned me to make him one, and I situated the switches normally found in dipswitch fashion inside to panel-mounted toggles, so that he could select whether he wanted this type or that of clipping or simply clean boost, withouthaving to open up the back. Makes for a LOT of tonal variation on tap.

At the same time, a person could probably pick up a cheap 2nd hand Distortion+ reissue, and an SD-1, quite inexpensively, and run the 2nd into the 1st, and get some very nice tones. Bulkier, but still cheaper than a KoT.

As always, the qualitative characteristics of the 2nd device depend on the characteristics of the first device you feed it from. A teensy bit of coloration, coupled with suitable treble bleed and a hotter signal can extract very nice things out of a 2nd pedal.

Not to demean the boutique industry, but it is worth noting that a great many of the boutique pedals are just a few part changes away from the mundane production pedals we see in every pawnshop and every 3rd kijiji ad. That doesn't mean the production ones are crap, or that the boutique ones are ripoffs. Rather, the big companies try to turn out a decent product that pleases everyone, more or less, and the boutique folks realize it could be juuuuuuusssstttttt a little more THIS or THAT if that part was changed/added/dropped. Sometimes wholly new functions can be found with very little change to the basic design. Cripes, you should hear how a cheezy little Small Stone can mutate into several entirely different beasts with just a few simple mods. If the big companies could be successfully petitioned by users to add a toggle for this feature or that, and then it just showed up in the stores, there'd be little need for much of the boutique industry.

Again, my intent is not to belittle the modders. Rather, it is to make you realize that a bit of knowledge about how things work, can allow you to take what seem like otherwise bland (and often inexpensive) big-production pedals, and make them as interesting as you _want_ them to be.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

A lot of the current pedal builders were, or still are modders, were/are they not?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

What makes you think the "vintage" folks WEREN'T?

They all look at stuff that's available and wonder "What if I did/changed/added *this*?"

You should check out the interviews with the various makers at the effects database site. Illuminating.

http://www.effectsdatabase.com/interviews/brands


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2013)

I never played my King of Tone High Gain V4. I sold it recently. I could never understand the hype.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Well I guess it is important to ignore hype, then. Personally, I don't frequent TGP and similar sites, because, as interesting as they can be, whenever I hear people touting superlatives about a product, they have often gotten them from those sites. Me, I'd rather just know how they work, and not how amazing they sound. If it's a really good idea, you'll see it in the design and feature set.

The KoT is not revolutionary, or exceptional. It is two modded Marshall Bluesbreakers in a box. But that makes it flexible, and quite convenient. A wide array of tones that you can engage in a small footprint. If one expects _more_ than that, one _will _be disappointed.


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2013)

Some love the KOT... The nice guy that bought it from me was very pleased with it. I guess different rigs, different styles and different tastes...


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