# Another Joyo rehouse fiasco



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I just found out about this on another forum.

It appears that there's another outfit, out of Denmark, 
that's rehousing Joyo pedals and charging large for them.

http://www.toxicpedals.com/

Fitting name.


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

Been following this for a bit now on TDPRI and TGP - interesting stuff. Also very funny to see the difference in reactions from the two forums.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I first saw it on TGP, in which someone had a link to an HCFX forum thread.

Either that Ken dude, from FreekishBlues, is going off the deepend,
or somebody hacked his account.

Some pretty strange post went on in that thread.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

The thing that I find interesting about the whole Joyo rebranding is the fact that people won't buy the originals. I brought in a bunch of the Ultimate Drive and Vintage Overdrive pedals for the GC Gear Shop and have them up for $45.00 CDN and nobody wants them. I guess if I were to repaint them and put a cool name on them and relist them for $200.00 they would sell?

Funny thing is, they are pretty good sounding pedals right out of the box. I use them both on my board. Same as the Dano TOD V1 at I think $35.00 when I originally got that one. Great sounding pedal.


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2012)

GuitarsCanada said:


> TI guess if I were to repaint them and put a cool name on them and relist them for $200.00 they would sell?


Probably. You buy with your eyes first when you internet shop.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

iaresee said:


> Probably. You buy with your eyes first when you internet shop.


I would agree to that for certain products. But here in our world a lot of it comes from forums and other people. A buzz gets created somewhere and the next thing you know everyone wants one. There is probably not a more boring looking pedal than the Tim or Timmy yet he sold a ton of those. I don't think I have ever seen a bit of advertising for those pedals either. Other than on guitar forums.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Guitar Fetish has a line of pedals that are made for them by Biyang. Biyang also has a line of pedals, with the same chassis, but the GFS pedals have different legending/labelling. GFS pres Jay Abend told me they tried to up the build quality a bit, but that they *were* Biyang.

The rehouse/rebrand thing has been going on for decades. In the late 70's, I bought a Fernandes "Funky Filter" from Pongetti's in Hamilton for $25, new. I never knew that it was actually a Mu-Tron III in another box....before I sold it. If you look at the effectsdatabase site, you'll see plenty of pedals that are rebranded. In the 60's, Shin-Ei pedals turned up with all sorts of different brand names.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

mhammer said:


> Guitar Fetish has a line of pedals that are made for them by Biyang. Biyang also has a line of pedals, with the same chassis, but the GFS pedals have different legending/labelling. GFS pres Jay Abend told me they tried to up the build quality a bit, but that they *were* Biyang.
> 
> The rehouse/rebrand thing has been going on for decades. In the late 70's, I bought a Fernandes "Funky Filter" from Pongetti's in Hamilton for $25, new. I never knew that it was actually a Mu-Tron III in another box....before I sold it. If you look at the effectsdatabase site, you'll see plenty of pedals that are rebranded. In the 60's, Shin-Ei pedals turned up with all sorts of different brand names.


Rebranding them is one thing and not really a bad thing either. I can get Joyo to sell me the goods, paint them up however I want. But the price is what bothers a lot of people. If you take the $40 pedal and rebrand it and sell it for $50 I can go along with that. But not sell it for $200


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I agree. If the "adjusted" price includes things like extending any warranty, or providing after-market support, or using better pots or jacks, or moving it from a plastic to a metal chassis, then I could see raising the price a bit to reflect that. So, even doubling could, in some circumstances be considered reasonable. A 5x jump, not so much.


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2012)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I would agree to that for certain products. But here in our world a lot of it comes from forums and other people. A buzz gets created somewhere and the next thing you know everyone wants one. There is probably not a more boring looking pedal than the Tim or Timmy yet he sold a ton of those. I don't think I have ever seen a bit of advertising for those pedals either. Other than on guitar forums.


I think you have to earn that kind of reputation. The Paul C. stuff in particularly is a nice story of viral-type, word-of-mouth marketing making a vendor famous and popular. At first, everyone distrusts the clips online and with good reason. So it's down to visuals.

No doubt i'll look twice at a pretty pedal wondering how it sounds. Versus something I don't find visually attractive I won't give it any thought. And I don't buy pedals at all any more.


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## hummingway (Aug 4, 2011)

This is an eye opener. I'd never heard of Joyo but here's a CDN site selling them: http://www.musicexpresscanada.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=6.

I don't see a problem with the visuals but the prices are terrific!


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

hummingway said:


> This is an eye opener. I'd never heard of Joyo but here's a CDN site selling them: http://www.musicexpresscanada.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=6.
> 
> I don't see a problem with the visuals but the prices are terrific!


you can get theme right here for a lot cheaper http://guitarscanshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=44


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> you can get theme right here for a lot cheaper http://guitarscanshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=44



And I would really like to do that too Scott  But my priorities list a new pedal near the bottom for me :C which really sucks because every month or so I look at your sale list LOL


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

sulphur said:


> I first saw it on TGP, in which someone had a link to an HCFX forum thread.
> 
> Either that Ken dude, from FreekishBlues, is going off the deepend,
> or somebody hacked his account.
> ...



I took a break from playing Minecraft last night to look into the background of your OP. You didn't open the door to the "other" places so went looking for the back story. Being late, and my being tired I didn't read it all verbatim, but did read enough to be very seriously confused by that FB/Ken deal on the HC forum. I didn't read the TDPRI forum postings but did read the first and last couple pages of TGP's. All I gotta say is: SCOTT MAYBE I SHOULD INVEST EH? Really, what some people pay. You know who started a lot of the crazy pricing? Martha Stewart. Something about her baking pies that didn't sell at 5 dollars so she repriced them at 25 and then they just sold and made her stinking rich.


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## hummingway (Aug 4, 2011)

GuitarsCanada said:


> you can get theme right here for a lot cheaper http://guitarscanshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=44


So ... people would rather buy a $200 pedal then a $45 one? I suppose people think the $200 one has to be better.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

hummingway said:


> So ... people would rather buy a $200 pedal then a $45 one? I suppose people think the $200 one has to be better.


Well its kind of a thing that we have been programmed in us. More expensive means better. IMO


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## Tarbender (Apr 7, 2006)

Scott... Are you going to bring any pedals on Saturday? Any other merchandise for that matter?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Tarbender said:


> Scott... Are you going to bring any pedals on Saturday? Any other merchandise for that matter?


Was not planning on it, but could


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## Jeff B. (Feb 20, 2010)

keeperofthegood said:


> You know who started a lot of the crazy pricing? Martha Stewart. Something about her baking pies that didn't sell at 5 dollars so she repriced them at 25 and then they just sold and made her stinking rich.


Similar story with the Second Cup coffee shops. The were on the verge of going under when the first opened until they significantly raised their prices and went after the upscale market.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

70's comedian Franklin Ajaye (recently seen in _Bridesmaids_) used to have a bit about how easy it was to "get chicks" when you had a girlfriend or wife. Because it would make all the other women who see you walking down the street with her think "Hmmm...I wonder what HE has?".

Price, among other things (like a girlfriend on your arm) can make things seem more desirable.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

Just to clarify the whole Freekish Blues fiasco, he was claiming to hand build his pedals in his basement using the best parts available and his own circuit designs. It wasn't so much re-branding as completely lying about what he was selling. In the one thread I went through posters commented they wouldn't have had a problem if he just said he was modding the circuit and repainting the boxes. It was the whole song and dance that pissed people off.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Amazing what you can get away with when you sell via a website, eh? Sometimes it's a 17-year-old girl on the other end of the e-mail, and sometimes its the guy from the Android's Dungeon Comic Book store pretending to be a 17 year-old girl.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

The FB debacle blew up, for one, because it happened to be a flavor of the month on TGP.
Guys got a wake up call that they could have had the same pedal for a fraction of the price.
Probably stung a little when the truth started to come out.

Funnier yet, was that the mods done to the pedal made it sound worse than the original.

I agree, Ken made it all worse by the claims of original design and made in the USA.
Then to compound matters, he never really owned up to the scam.
Even through the HCFX thread, he kept putting up a vid that GMD did, that proved nothing.

I don't like to link to other forums, but this is pertinent to this thread, and a good read.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1038193

And the freakshow going on at HCFX

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2880531-Beware-Toxicpedals#

Yes Scott, spray bomb those pedals, scratch GC onto them and charge $250. Up the anti a bit. :banana:

I think that Dano pedal you have is a rip off of the Timmy pedal btw (I think that's the one).

I might have sprung for one of those Joyos if my board wasn't stacked already. 8)


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> The thing that I find interesting about the whole Joyo rebranding is the fact that people won't buy the originals. I brought in a bunch of the Ultimate Drive and Vintage Overdrive pedals for the GC Gear Shop and have them up for $45.00 CDN and nobody wants them. I guess if I were to repaint them and put a cool name on them and relist them for $200.00 they would sell?
> 
> Funny thing is, they are pretty good sounding pedals right out of the box. I use them both on my board. Same as the Dano TOD V1 at I think $35.00 when I originally got that one. Great sounding pedal.


I just don't know how many people outside of forums know about them. EVen on this forum Joyo is rarely discussed. There are tons of threads on the TDRPI about them though. I for one will likely get one from the GC shop now that I know you carry them. I just don't have the budget for any pedals right now, but the info is good to know.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> The thing that I find interesting about the whole Joyo rebranding is the fact that people won't buy the originals. I brought in a bunch of the Ultimate Drive and Vintage Overdrive pedals for the GC Gear Shop and have them up for $45.00 CDN and nobody wants them. I guess if I were to repaint them and put a cool name on them and relist them for $200.00 they would sell?
> 
> Funny thing is, they are pretty good sounding pedals right out of the box. I use them both on my board. Same as the Dano TOD V1 at I think $35.00 when I originally got that one. Great sounding pedal.


Hmmm. Maybe I'll buy one of them. Any additional discounts on this week?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

hardasmum said:


> Hmmm. Maybe I'll buy one of them. Any additional discounts on this week?


Send me a pm for a discount coupon code


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I wonder if these instances even bother Joyo?

Are they just moving more product, so they don't care?


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## mrfiftyfour (Jun 29, 2008)

I read the HC thread as well. Made me think of the boutique pedal thread started by b-nads. I think he is on to something there.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Ya, it's the diminishing returns factor.

It must be a tough market though, if you're trying to do it honestly,
keeping yourself and/or others employed, here in North America.


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## Jeff B. (Feb 20, 2010)

sulphur said:


> Ya, it's the diminishing returns factor.
> 
> It must be a tough market though, if you're trying to do it honestly,
> keeping yourself and/or others employed, here in North America.


Yup. RonSound recently shut down ongoing production about after 17 years of building pedals after getting fed up with the current market BS, he's just going to make a few here or there from now on. Most probably have never heard of him but Ron made some highly regarded pedals and is extensively knowledgeable about EHX products. 

+1 on spray bombing those pedals, scratch GC onto them and charge $250. A GC brand pedal would be awesome and perhaps be a good fundraiser for this place. 
You could put some choices and options up and let the forum vote on how it wants it made. I can help with this if you ever want to go that route.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

sulphur said:


> The FB debacle blew up, for one, because it happened to be a flavor of the month on TGP.
> Guys got a wake up call that they could have had the same pedal for a fraction of the price.
> Probably stung a little when the truth started to come out.
> 
> ...


The last time I went to the FB website it was talking about his "original designs" now being made by an "Asian manufacturer" but he would continue to do "custom shop" pedals. Not even a good try.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

That's a good idea Jeff.

Raffle the pedal off for ten or twenty bucks a piece.
It could help with the overhead here, if there was enough interest.

Sounds like old Kenny boy has been playing with the nail polish again.


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## Jeff B. (Feb 20, 2010)

sulphur said:


> That's a good idea Jeff.
> 
> Raffle the pedal off for ten or twenty bucks a piece.
> It could help with the overhead here, if there was enough interest.


I was thinking along the lines of some limited GC brand pedals sold only at the GC Shop designed in part by the forum itself but your idea is much better and GC as well as it's contributing membership would benefit directly from this. Those who only show up for contests would have to buy a ticket to get in on this one instead of just a post and run so GC benefits from them as well in that way.
Other websites like the Telecaster Forum (TDPRI) do a fund raising raffle every year to great success with many great prizes donated. If other manufactures in Canada would agree to kick some stuff in an all Canadian made pedalboard with a GC pedal board wiring kit would be a really sweet prize, even better if it came with a Canadian made guitar and amp secondary prizes could be L&M giftcards, GC memberships etc. Of course I'm speculating wildly but I'm all in if even happens.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Jeff B. said:


> I was thinking along the lines of some limited GC brand pedals sold only at the GC Shop designed in part by the forum itself but your idea is much better and GC as well as it's contributing membership would benefit directly from this. Those who only show up for contests would have to buy a ticket to get in on this one instead of just a post and run so GC benefits from them as well in that way.
> Other websites like the Telecaster Forum (TDPRI) do a fund raising raffle every year to great success with many great prizes donated. If other manufactures in Canada would agree to kick some stuff in an all Canadian made pedalboard with a GC pedal board wiring kit would be a really sweet prize, even better if it came with a Canadian made guitar and amp secondary prizes could be L&M giftcards, GC memberships etc. Of course I'm speculating wildly but I'm all in if even happens.


It all sounds good to me. I don't want to turn anything into a money making enterprise for me though. With the subs and a little bit of google ad money the place is at least paying for itself now. I am no pedal builder for sure so someone would have to do that.


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## k tone (Oct 7, 2008)

sulphur said:


> The FB debacle blew up, for one, because it happened to be a flavor of the month on TGP.
> Guys got a wake up call that they could have had the same pedal for a fraction of the price.
> Probably stung a little when the truth started to come out.
> 
> ...


Ya I started the HC thread after I read about it with some interest in TDPRI. Boy did that turn weird once Freekish and his alts started posting.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

k tone said:


> Ya I started the HC thread after I read about it with some interest in TDPRI. Boy did that turn weird once Freekish and his alts started posting.


That was a very entertaining thread.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

J S Moore said:


> That was a very entertaining thread.


I made the mistake of reading both of those threads before going to bed last night (with a belly full of curried chicken and mild red wine buzz). Well, I kind of glazed over much of the HC stuff after the first 15 pages or so, but I swear I kept having recurring dreams/nightmares about that pedal and that psycho FB guy all night.

I gotta lay off that stuff before bedtime... the wine and spicy food are already bad enough. )


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

crazy crazy crazy......


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Jeff B. said:


> I was thinking along the lines of some limited GC brand pedals sold only at the GC Shop designed in part by the forum itself but your idea is much better and GC as well as it's contributing membership would benefit directly from this. Those who only show up for contests would have to buy a ticket to get in on this one instead of just a post and run so GC benefits from them as well in that way.
> *Other websites like the Telecaster Forum (TDPRI) do a fund raising raffle every year to great success* with many great prizes donated. If other manufactures in Canada would agree to kick some stuff in an all Canadian made pedalboard with a GC pedal board wiring kit would be a really sweet prize, even better if it came with a Canadian made guitar and amp secondary prizes could be L&M giftcards, GC memberships etc. Of course I'm speculating wildly but I'm all in if even happens.


I love the TDPRI raffle and always donate. I have never won anything, but it's really cool to see all the great prizes sponsors donate. I would love to see something like that here.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

So how does that work at TDPRI?

Manufacturers donate gear and the membership bids on it?


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> you can get theme right here for a lot cheaper http://guitarscanshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=44


It's tempting to try it out at that price, but I already have 4 distortion pedals--although that wouldn't stop some people...


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## Jeff B. (Feb 20, 2010)

sulphur said:


> So how does that work at TDPRI?
> 
> Manufacturers donate gear and the membership bids on it?


 At TDPRI the manufacturers donate prizes and people buy tickets for the prize draws. There are lots of different ways to go about it. It doesn't have to be a for profit or money making venture and the money can be put towards operating costs, server and hosting upgrades, GC Shop expansion, future forum contests, more GC guitar shows, GC advertising, sponsorship (for example the Moncton Swap Meet and Guitar Show is the sponsor for the Audio Professional of the Year Award at the East Coast Music Awards this year.) 
TDPRI set up a separate credit card only site just for the fund-raiser after having an issue with Paypal in regards to the fundraising or something. http://www.tdpfundraiser.com/main.sc
TDPRI's 2011's prizes. http://www.tdpri.com/2011-fundraiser-giveaway/


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

I was about to pull the trigger on the Ultimate Drive and I happened to come across the Joyo Crunch distortion online. I think it's meant to be a clone of the Crunch Box. Realize I have lots of fuzz and OD but no distortion. Hmmm....


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

nkjanssen said:


> I'd be concerned about violating gaming laws. Even charity raffles need to be licensed.
> 
> I'm just guessing, but that might be the issue PayPal had with it with respect to TDPRI.


Yes, whenever there is something like that its good to check into the legalities etc. I have never done it myself but I am sure there are requirements of some kind. Probably nothing serious but good to be on the level with those kids of things


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## copperhead (May 24, 2006)

hardasmum said:


> I was about to pull the trigger on the Ultimate Drive and I happened to come across the Joyo Crunch distortion online. I think it's meant to be a clone of the Crunch Box. Realize I have lots of fuzz and OD but no distortion. Hmmm....


I got a few joyo pedals 
I have the ultimate drive & the crunch n they both sound great


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Yes, whenever there is something like that its good to check into the legalities etc. I have never done it myself but I am sure there are requirements of some kind. Probably nothing serious but good to be on the level with those kids of things


You need to have a license to run a raffle and be a registered charity. Raffles run for profit are not allowed. And it's not the accounting definition of profit either, it basically means remuneration or benefit of any kind. The AGCO has successfully prosecuted gaming houses based on sales from their snack bar that they wouldn't have made without the game running, with the house making nothing directly from the game.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

nkjanssen said:


> I believe the U.S. laws are similar. Looking at that TDPRI raffle site, I'm surprised they've flown under the radar as long as they have.


Probably because no one has complained. The TDPRI seems to be pretty low key and insular and If the money is going to charity they won't do much unless there's fraud involved.


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