# Are we too concerned with sustain?



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm of the opinion that we are.

Unless you have a real pig (it happens) where notes go to die, most decent guitars, when set up properly will have more sustain than I need to play real music.

If you really need the notes to hang on, maybe an E-bow or Sustaniac system, or even a decent compressor pedal is the ticket.

I have lots of guitars, some set necks, some bolt on, and none of them lack sustain to the point where I would take corrective action.

Even the amazing VegaTrem Strat replacement (upgrade) bridges are sometimes criticized for lower sustain, because the block is machined to enable increased range of travel.

Personally I don't hear a deficiency in sustain, but I suppose that could be measured.

Am I wrong?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I like sustain. I'm happy with the sustain of my guitars. I don't necessarily obsess over whether a guitar has enough sustain.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I like sustain. I'm happy with the sustain of my guitars. I don't necessarily obsess over whether a guitar has enough sustain.



Well, I'm sure we all want adequate sustain in our guitars. The point is, once most decent guitars have more than enough for normal playing, why is there still so much emphasis on that element?

I'm talking about the concept of overkill. Shoot me once in the head and I'm probably dead. Shoot me ten times in the head, still dead, but not more so.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

A guitar without sustain is broken. So if someone’s guitar is not broken, it has enough sustain.

If someone desires more sustain as an effect, that’s their call I guess. But none of the artists in the 1980’s rock bands that they are trying to mimic had any mechanical devices to manipulate sustain beyond the usual nuts and bridges.

One might consider buying a violin or piano if their goal is to play an instrument that is more ethereal sonically than a guitar.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

If you google "The psychology of a sustaining musical note", there are several opinions. I tend to agree with the emotional state from a sustaining note...at times it raises the hairs on the back of my neck and I believe that it is related to ASMR.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

I look at it this way: If you don't have enough, you'll know.

I do try to get more out of my guitars up to a point. Stainless neck screws make a difference. Hardened steel fasteners on the bridge make a difference. Swapping a zinc block for brass makes a difference. Locking tuners make a difference. But, the trick is to stop vibration loss without hurting tone. And it's the damping that each component puts on sting vibration that makes a guitar unique.

I have one guitar where I put every trick I had into making it sustain. It rings like crazy, but it is missing something in terms of character.

Then there's the reality that one plays their instrument. If it sustains a little less, then one has to play it differently than something that sustains more.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

Probably marketing. 

I agree that most guitars have adequate sustain. And to a certain extent, it also comes from touch as well. Like coaxing notes into sustain rather and using vibrato to keep it going.

This may sound weird, but I find some guitars with really great sustain are trickier to play. My Godin LG Signature is like that. I really have to pay attention to my muting to keep it tight.


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

My understanding is that when it comes to the guitar, sustain and resonance are kind of opposite. And guitarists seem to want both.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in a nutshell:
a) sustain happens when the strings vibrate for X amount of time. This implies that the energy is pretty self-contained to the strings themselves.
b) resonance happens when that energy from the strings transfers to the body of the guitar.

I am neither an engineer nor a scientist, but I imagine that it's not as cut-and-dry as that, and that there is some back and forth scenarios between strings, pickups, and body. But, for simplicity sake, the privileging of one seems to negate the other, no?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

My 2013 Martin D-18 Authentic 1939 has a fantastic amount of sustain. Seems to ring for a long time. About a year ago I was in the Ottawa area and stop by Lauzons where I picked up the newer aged version of my D-18. That thing rang forever. I strum a chord or pick a note and the ringing never seemed to end. According to the experts on the Martin forum the aged versions have a much thinner finish that contributes to that. It wasn't something that would make me sell my D-18 authentic to buy the aged version but if I didn't already own mine I'd certainly buy the aged version for that sustain and resonance.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Milkman said:


> I'm of the opinion that we are.
> 
> Unless you have a real pig (it happens) where notes go to die, most decent guitars, when set up properly will have more sustain than I need to play real music.
> 
> ...


I don't really worry about it unless the notes die on the vine. At one time I was a bit more obsessed. Bought brass blocks and such and even measured the before and after results. Now, I can't even remember which guitar has the mods. I rarely play clean so I can understand that those that do might be more concerned.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> I don't really worry about it unless the notes die on the vine. At one time I was a bit more obsessed. Bought brass blocks and such and even measured the before and after results. Now, I can't even remember which guitar has the mods. I rarely play clean so I can understand that those that do might be more concerned.



I guess that's what was on my mind. We need sustain. Certainly nobody wants a guitar where the notes just die. Basic set up and maintenence will make that a non-issue for most decent guitars.

I can't comment on particleboard Chibsons or super cheap guitars in general but I'm assuming that most of us here have better guitars than those.

But when I see gear compared and they claim one set up or another has better or worse sustain, I sort of scratch my head.

Seems like the sustain problem was cured long ago.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It's a matter of getting what one wants from the instrument when you want it. More *ability* to sustain is good. And if you don't want it at the moment, you always have the butt of your picking hand.

I think it a mistake to think of sustain in monolithic fashion. Every picked/plucked note has multiple frequency components. Some will die out quickly, and others hang on longer. Because the harmonics give a note definition, one can actually have excellent sustain of the fundamental and quick disappearance of the harmonics, creating the illusion of less sustain.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Maybe I'm a bit of a hack when it comes to playing, but honestly, I haven't had a guitar that had a descernable lack of sustain since the 70s.

People worry about sustain and then leave their strings on for months.

Maybe this is not the best analogy, but back in the 80s when the Ford Mustangs started adding 5.0 litre V8s, the GT was rated around 225 HP and there were plenty of people who said that was crazy, unneccessary levels of power for a street car.

Your average family sedan is often over 300 HP these days.

Why? Because they can sell it easier, certainly not because that kind of power is needed.

Your average Strat or Tele has all the sustain (and more) than I ever need.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

I encourage the guitar player in my trio to play his nylon string Godin rather than his 5th avenue precisely because it has less sustain -- more percussive. Keeps our sound clean and open. A solid body electric is completely beyond the pale.

Same applies to bass: we will never have an electric bass player -- turns everything into mush. Upright bass is more percussive, gives you the bass note and then gets out of the way. But upright bass players are harder to find so I cover the bass on the piano and keep the notes short.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Doug Gifford said:


> I encourage the guitar player in my trio to play his nylon string Godin rather than his 5th avenue precisely because it has less sustain -- more percussive. Keeps our sound clean and open. A solid body electric is completely beyond the pale.
> 
> Same applies to bass: we will never have an electric bass player -- turns everything into mush. Upright bass is more percussive, gives you the bass note and then gets out of the way. But upright bass players are harder to find so I cover the bass on the piano and keep the notes short.


I get that.


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## theroan (Oct 7, 2008)

I think people
1) equate sustain with resonance
2) resonance with wood quality 
3) wood quality with overall quality


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

theroan said:


> I think people
> 1) equate sustain with resonance
> 2) resonance with wood quality
> 3) wood quality with overall quality


I wrote about this earlier in this thread. To my mind, the problem with that thinking is that if you can feel the resonance in the body of your guitar, then the energy from the initial pick attack is quite literally leaving the guitar - thus it means less sustain, right?


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

How many guitar builders measure the OVERTONES in their builds? 

Overtones that go beyond the range of human hearing are useful because they are energy that provides sustain, output and detail.

Whether you use that sustain or not, the sound of a guitar is better with more overtones. 

On the other hand, the difference may be so slight between two guitars that it doesn't matter anyway. I find the most noticeable difference in the treble. Electric guitars with more inaudible overtones have a (marginally) more pleasant treble. And more sustain. If you want it.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

KapnKrunch said:


> Whether you use that sustain or not, the sound of a guitar is better with more overtones.



Not necessarily. The coveted "dry sound of the prewar Martins is something people pay a lot of money for. Lush overtones on Martins is what is considered a more modern sound opposite of the prewar sound.


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## ga20t (Jul 22, 2010)

I have a Tele that sounds notes for so long it's actually annoying, like some kind of perpetual motion machine that I just have to tip into action. It's kind of neat/unique, and definitely a strength for volume swells/faux steel and those times I like to pretend I'm Richard Thompson I suppose, but damping it all when you don't want the mess is kind of a chore, and I definitely prefer to milk it where I need it instead of fighting it back. I already employ plenty of palm-muting and primarily play finger style/Travis as it is. Using a masking tape shim in the neck pocket and stuffing the bridge cavity has helped a bit.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

ga20t said:


> I have a Tele that sounds notes for so long it's actually annoying, like some kind of perpetual motion machine that I just have to tip into action. It's kind of neat/unique, and definitely a strength for volume swells/faux steel and those times I like to pretend I'm Richard Thompson I suppose, but damping it all when you don't want the mess is kind of a chore, and I definitely prefer to milk it where I need it instead of fighting it back. I already employ plenty of palm-muting and primarily play finger style/Travis as it is. Using a masking tape shim in the neck pocket and stuffing the bridge cavity has helped a bit.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who's experienced this.


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## aC2rs (Jul 9, 2007)




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## ga20t (Jul 22, 2010)

^That's pretty much the first thing I think of whenever guitar owners mention sustain lol.


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