# Do coat hangers sound better than Monster Cables?



## Guest (Mar 3, 2008)

Blind test between coat hangers (yup, you read that right) and Monster Cables (speaker cables). Can you tell the difference?

Survey says: no.

Awesome.


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## Geek (Jun 5, 2007)

As a HiFi dude, exposed to a lot of foolishness and genius brilliance in cables, I can say a LOT of things sound better than Monster... 'scope a lot better too.

Cheers!


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Geek said:


> As a HiFi dude, exposed to a lot of foolishness and genius brilliance in cables, I can say a LOT of things sound better than Monster... 'scope a lot better too.
> 
> Cheers!


I'm also a high-fi man, and I worked in a very upscale audio store for a while. While I can say that I would never be able to spring several thousands for a 6 foot run of speaker wire, I can also honestly say that some of the more "reasonably" priced cables do sound miles better than 16 gauge lampcord that you buy from Home Depot.

However, it is true that if the ancillary equipment sucks ass, the cable will sound the same as some pile of turd. But, then again, as musicians, we all know that a cheapo Squier made of balsa wood and electronics that cost 5 cents for the whole lot isn't going to sound as good as a mexican or american strat. The difference is the same in the hi-fi world. Is a US Strat a justifiable purchase at over 5x the pricetag of a Squier? For some, of course it is! It might even be a necessity. Similarly, for audio geeks, paying 5 or 10x what a mass market dvd player costs for a dedicated CD player is a necessity.

Of course, when the company I worked for was called in to install a million-dollar system on some guy's yacht, that was a bit much.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2008)

jroberts said:


> Clicking on that link crashed Explorer for me.


Maybe it's time for a better browser?

You can hunt for it on Boing Boing's front page: http://www.boingboing.net/


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## Geek (Jun 5, 2007)

hollowbody said:


> Of course, when the company I worked for was called in to install a million-dollar system on some guy's yacht, that was a bit much.


Oh, aren't those the cat's meow?









How did you manage to keep a straight face?


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2008)

hollowbody said:


> I can also honestly say that some of the more "reasonably" priced cables do sound miles better than 16 gauge lampcord that you buy from Home Depot.


Really? Because all the blind test results I've seen so far say there is no audible difference. How were you running your blind test comparisons?


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Geek said:


> Oh, aren't those the cat's meow?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The commission cheque was a pretty good incentive to do whatever was needed to close that sale :banana:

I have to say, in my time there, I saw some GORGEOUS houses!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

One of the things that regularly gets overlooked in the cable debates is the fundamental difference between a multi-source wide-bandwidth signal (full acoustic jazz quintet or string quartet) and a single-source narrow-bandwidth signal (electric bass, guitar).

The greater the number of signal "channels" (i.e., individual sources whose harmonics have to be accurately and easily assigned by the brain to the appropriate fundamental) traveling the same cable, the higher the requirements for the cable. In part, this is because of things like cable capacitance and other less easily measurable qualities of cables that devices like BBE were intended to try and correct. Naturally, the longer the cable, the more important cable qualities are as well, because one is always concerned about the total effect per linear foot.

What this means is that people who see no benefit to using pricey high-end cable over 16-gauge zip cord when it comes to running 3ft between their bass amp and speaker cab aren't fools, but it also means that people who "hear" differences between varieties of high-end cable when feeding their acoustic guitar to an amp 25ft away, or running their stereo to electrostatic speakers in a large listening space aren't crazy either.

The hard part is determining whether one is wasting money and concern, or shrugging away important aural distinctions for the sake of a few bucks, when dealing with the "in-betweenies"; those cases where length and bandwidth start to add up.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

iaresee said:


> Really? Because all the blind test results I've seen so far say there is no audible difference. How were you running your blind test comparisons?


Same as anyone else. Plonk yourself down to listen while someone else switches cables. We had cables switched manually, to eliminate a switch box and any possible impedance issues or sonic footprint left on the signal by going through it. Most of our tests were CD Player with variable out direct into power amp, then into speakers.

Of course, "better" is a hugely subjective term. I never actually picked the most expensive cables as the ones I preferred, so that theory is just plain shot, but in my time, I actually on 3 separate occasions picked one cable over the rest. Now, could I pick that cable out of a bunch if I had to? Not a chance in hell. It was random happenstance, but there must have been something about that particular piece of wire that drew me to its "sound."

Also, some systems are better able to transmit subtleties. I know it sounds like snake oil, but just like some studio headphones and monitors allow you to hear deeper into the mix, some systems translate information from a disc to your ears better. The age old adage "Garbage In, Garbage Out" holds true in home audio. It's actually pretty amazing to hear how much a quality rig suffers when you plug in some really low-end cables.

I've always been an music fan, and got into home audio as a hobby and thought it would be cool to work in an audio store. I didn't really buy into audio gear mystique when I first started working there, but on many occasions I heard things that I wouldn't have believed. However, I'd also like to point out: a) I am not an engineer and can't explain the theory behind why some stuff just sounded plain better to me; b) not everything worked like a charm. Some stuff that cost more than a new sedan was utter rubbish. Having said that, there are a few products that I would swear by.

Audiophiles are a weird and wonderful bunch. But they're really no different than guitarists who will argue about which EL34 sounds best in their JCM800, or why they prefer a certain string manufacturer over another. :rockon:


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

These blind listening tests don't suprise me at all.

Walk into any high end audio store, music store or anything remotely audio related and the sales people will try to upsell you on cabels and conectors and the like. They will also tell you that 'Audio" flows through most of these cables.

Audio does not flow through a single cable in an audio system, electrons do. An electron is an electron, there are no electrons that 'sound' better than others and there are no special 'tone' electrons.

As long as a speaker cable is in good working order and it will pass electrons at frequencies between 20Hz and 20KHz (which is not a difficult task for most metal wire) than it will work just fine for audio.

Problems with speaker cables are from high resistance, due to bad connections such as cold solder joints, capacitance (as you have two metal objects separated by an insulator) and inductance (you could theoretically create a choke by coiling the wire - have fun with that one).

I especially like the high grade power cables. Who thinks that this is worth the money? Do they not realize that there are KM's of cable between the power source and the wall outlet that are totally beyond their control? Do they think that all of the 'good power' jumps out at the wall outlet if you don't use a really expensive cable?


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Did anyone see CBC's research into monster video cable? A CBC tech compared monster cable ($240), another expensive cable ($110), and a $12 cable bought on the internet. With all three cables the signal that was present at the input was _identical_ to the output signal.

Since Best Buy and Future Shop had both initially claimed the Monster cables were "unquestionably better" CBC returned to the stores to show them the test results. Future Shop wouldn't comment or appear on camera, the Best Buy spokesperson said something like "yeah, but the monster cable is nicer cable" . . . 

It seems stores don't make too much on TV sales: the $200 cable you "need" is the goldmine of profit margin.

TG


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## Geek (Jun 5, 2007)

Here's the link if anyone is interested:
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2008/02/20/packing_the_deal/

I sold them too for Radio Shack (years before Circuit City bought them) and we got rid of them and went Acoustic Research.

Cheers!


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

double post


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

I buy the cheapest cables I can find. So one cable is 'faster' than the other? Can people honestly say they can tell a difference? Probably not. Copper is copper, after all.


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## Geek (Jun 5, 2007)

Hey, lookie what I found - I don't think Monster even makes their own cables, surprise, surprise!

Gold Cable (Zhongshan) Electronic Co., Ltd. lists some of their satisfied customers, including Monster:
http://jinxianda.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008825683033/Homepage.htm


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Hamm Guitars said:


> I especially like the high grade power cables. Who thinks that this is worth the money? Do they not realize that there are KM's of cable between the power source and the wall outlet that are totally beyond their control? Do they think that all of the 'good power' jumps out at the wall outlet if you don't use a really expensive cable?


Don't even get me started on this one. Some of the clients I dealt with actually choose where their next home will be based on how close it is to a major hydro transformer relay. :sport-smiley-002:


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

traynor_garnet said:


> It seems stores don't make too much on TV sales: the $200 cable you "need" is the goldmine of profit margin.


True. For most mass market electronics (Panasonic, Sony, JVC, etc.) the markup is painfully small. It's not even worth wasting your time trying to sell it. 

I was in Best Buy the other day, buying a new computer. I saw a pack of 16 gauge lampcord being sold for $20. There was only 20 feet of cable!!!


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

traynor_garnet said:


> It seems stores don't make too much on TV sales: the $200 cable you "need" is the goldmine of profit margin.


When I first moved to Ontario back in '88 one of my first jobs was a s a mascot (and a repo man) for Krazy Kelly's (a small chain of home entertainment stores). At that time (I don't know about now) the markup on home electronics was a whopping 500 % - so if you paid $500 for something, the sore paid $100 for it through channels.

I personally got to create some 'scratch and dents' - these were banged up on purpose as a sales tool. Someone would come in and see a $2500.00 TV marked down to $1200.00 and they would want to buy it - 95 % of the time the customers walked out of the store having purchased a more expensive item.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Hamm Guitars said:


> When I first moved to Ontario back in '88 one of my first jobs was a s a mascot (and a repo man) for Krazy Kelly's (a small chain of home entertainment stores). At that time (I don't know about now) the markup on home electronics was a whopping 500 % - so if you paid $500 for something, the sore paid $100 for it through channels.
> 
> I personally got to create some 'scratch and dents' - these were banged up on purpose as a sales tool. Someone would come in and see a $2500.00 TV marked down to $1200.00 and they would want to buy it - 95 % of the time the customers walked out of the store having purchased a more expensive item.


That's not true anymore. Mass produced electronics goods like Sony, Denon, Toshiba, etc. have a tiny markup these days. Ancillary gear is where the big bucks are made. You buy a TV and the retailer makes 5-10% on it. You buy some DVDs to watch on that TV and the retailer makes a killing.

Boutique audio gear is another story entirely, although I have not seen more than 100% markup on high-end stuff, and that was only from a couple manufacturers.

Then again, I worked for a fairly small company, so it's possible Future Shop or Best Buy get better deals on their products by buying bulk, though I can't imagine them making more than 20-25% on a TV or DVD player.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2008)

Hamm Guitars said:


> When I first moved to Ontario back in '88 one of my first jobs was a s a mascot (and a repo man) for Krazy Kelly's (a small chain of home entertainment stores). At that time (I don't know about now) the markup on home electronics was a whopping 500 % - so if you paid $500 for something, the sore paid $100 for it through channels.


I used to work for a small, high end, A/V store in Kanata when I was in high school. The markup wasn't equal on all things. Recievers, CD player, VCRs, laser disc players (this was the early 90's) -- maybe 10-15% tops. But speakers and cables: easily a few hundred percent. If you bought a system with speakers and cables from me I could give you a huge deal. Just buying a component? No dice. I had no room to move.

I do remember this one time someone kept coming back to haggle over a $1 on a $99 Sony Sports Walkman (remember those yellow things? they were the shit when I was in high school...). A $1. I think our markup was maybe $5-$6 on that thing.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

iaresee said:


> I used to work for a small, high end, A/V store in Kanata when I was in high school. The markup wasn't equal on all things. Recievers, CD player, VCRs, laser disc players (this was the early 90's) -- maybe 10-15% tops. But speakers and cables: easily a few hundred percent. If you bought a system with speakers and cables from me I could give you a huge deal. Just buying a component? No dice. I had no room to move.
> 
> I do remember this one time someone kept coming back to haggle over a $1 on a $99 Sony Sports Walkman (remember those yellow things? they were the shit when I was in high school...). A $1. I think our markup was maybe $5-$6 on that thing.


...i had the same experience, working at an electronics store on yonge street in toronto when i arrived here in the late 80s. i had access to the pricing information, and was absolutely blown away by the absolutely miniscule markup on electronics.

then came the big box chains, with bulk purchasing power, i suspect.

-dh


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## Geek (Jun 5, 2007)

Hi,



hollowbody said:


> ....though I can't imagine them making more than 20-25% on a TV or DVD player.


Ohhh, don't underestimate their markup!

Big box or not, typical Canadian business is minimum markup is 30%, otherwise they'll tell a manufacturer to get lost, no matter who he is.

We had sales on our Sony Vega TV's for example... we undercut even The Real Canadian Superstore (Loblaws) and *still* made 25% on it.

American's are happy with 15% MU, simply because things don't cost near as much there. That's why even when our dollar was $0.65 USD, it was still far, far, cheaper to buy stuff there.

Computers is the only thing nowadays with a 3% MU. That's why the $600 dealer-cost comp costs you $620, but the $0.15 IDE cable will cost you $15.95 :wink:

Cheers!


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