# Does personal controversy guide your musical preference



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

In other words does the life style and personal choices that musicians in bands make you decide whether you listen to them or not.
Seems people are calling for Arcade Fire to cancel shows. They're only allegations yet many would like to see them canceled. 
I've been on a big Led Zeppelin listening marathon for a while and have really been rediscovering their music. I've seen some people online saying they would never listen to them as they were horrible people. And I admit if some of what is said about them are true, its pretty disturbing. I think if I have to analyze every choice an artist or band has made my list of artists to listen to will be very small. 
Just wondering what others think. Is there a line that if an artist crosses you remove them from your listening choice?


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## CathodeRay (Jan 12, 2018)

I try not to let artist's personal lives and opinions affect my interest.

Yup there are limits of course. Horrendous crimes etc. But that goes beyond the definition of their 'personal life'.

People are weird. Musicians are weirder. Poets even more so. Look no further than this forum. Gotta cut em some slack.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1) The popular culture industry likes artists with impulse-control difficulties. Doesn't matter if we're talking rock, film, graphic arts, dance, or whatnot. If the performer/artist is going to do something unexpected or risky, the industry wants them, simply because impulsive behaviourcan yield interesting artistic surprises and appeals to consumers. So why are we surprised when we find out that people we like have engaged in "bad behaviour", or take their own lives, or are somehow now on their 5th marriage?

2) Everyone has a side of themselves, or past behaviour, they'd like to leave in the past. This is true of many historical figures whom we have revered, as well as pop music icons. It's only a matter of time before you learn something disquieting about someone you used to really like. It happens. If they keep doing it, that's one thing. But if it was something they stopped doing, allow them to redeem themselves.

3) Any piece of music you enjoy likely has many other people attached to it that helped to make it as enjoyable to you as it is. Do you deny their contributions because the behaviour of one individual troubles you? Indeed, given how very little money these days actually goes to the artist whose name is attached (especially when it comes to streaming, but often live performance as well), is one's rejection of their music any sort of "rap on the knuckles"?

4) If there is a pattern to an artist's extracurricular behaviour that results in an analogous pattern or trend in their work, that maybe you never noticed UNTIL you learned the unsavoury things about them, that CAN throw off your enjoyment. I really enjoy the films of Woody Allen ("Bananas" is a classic in my books). I know that they are as good as they are (_when_ they're good) because of the combined efforts of many people, and not HIS effort alone. But when the film's theme is an older man "guiding" a much younger woman, it's hard to watch and enjoy now.

As Johnny Cash (himself no angel) once sang "_I don't like it but I guess things happen that way_."


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I find it does affect me. I try to separate the music from the musician but I can't. It feels like I'm rewarding a person I despise. I wouldn't send money to a political group or charity I don't agree with so why would I support a musician I don't agree with.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Why would I reward known shitty behaviour?

reage, Im pretty sure his bringing a 16yo on tour is well documented…


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Kerry Brown said:


> I find it does affect me. I try to separate the music from the musician but I can't. It feels like I'm rewarding a person I despise. I wouldn't send money to a political group or charity I don't agree with so why would I support a musician I don't agree with.


I guess this is what I'm getting at. Do you find you deprive your self of music that can really inspire you for the sake of your personal beliefs?
I remember back in 60's\70's I knew very little about the personal life of the artists and bands I listened to. I really had no interest in exploring the personal lives or knowing more than the information contained on those round black discs I listened to. Nowadays it seems we know everything about everyone and there are no shortage of people wanting to cancel others for what society has decided is unforgivable. You don't even have to be convicted. A simple allegation is all it takes. I guess thats another argument though.
I've read some of the things that Jimmy Page, John Bonham or Plant has done and it makes me feel a little guilty for listening to their music but I enjoy the music so much I listen any way. I think if I deny my self this music then is it my responsibility to do a back ground check on every artist I listen to or every actor in every tv show\movie I watch?
Kevin Spacey is another example. I loved that guys acting. But now he's been canceled.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Not really. I can separate the music from the person. I can still listen to Michael Jackson and enjoy it despite him molesting children. It's just so good.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Guncho said:


> Not really. I can separate the music from the person. I can still listen to Michael Jackson and enjoy it despite him molesting children. It's just so good.


Plus, as I noted, the reason it's so good is because of the combined efforts of many other people.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

guitarman2 said:


> I guess this is what I'm getting at. Do you find you deprive your self of music that can really inspire you for the sake of your personal beliefs?
> I remember back in 60's\70's I knew very little about the personal life of the artists and bands I listened to. I really had no interest in exploring the personal lives or knowing more than the information contained on those round black discs I listened to. Nowadays it seems we know everything about everyone and there are no shortage of people wanting to cancel others for what society has decided is unforgivable. You don't even have to be convicted. A simple allegation is all it takes. I guess thats another argument though.
> I've read some of the things that Jimmy Page, John Bonham or Plant has done and it makes me feel a little guilty for listening to their music but I enjoy the music so much I listen any way. I think if I deny my self this music then is it my responsibility to do a back ground check on every artist I listen to or every actor in every tv show\movie I watch?
> Kevin Spacey is another example. I loved that guys acting. But now he's been canceled.


I’m not cancelling anybody. If others want to listen to their music they are free to do so. I don’t proselytize. Personally, I find it hard to listen to their music without thinking about what they have done. If others listen to their music I’m fine with that. It is a personal choice that I wouldn’t try to push on others.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

No, as I've said many times, if you start excluding art that was created by less than savory individuals, you'll have a very short list.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

How would I know Im missing out if I dont listen to it?


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I agree that artists can be wild and screwed up, dependent on drugs, have bad behavior, etc. Just like movie actors and such.

I try not to allow their sleaze to interfere with my enjoyment of their product. Their music/movies are still good (I like MJ too). And as mentioned, it's not only them that produced it. It's a collaborative effort and it's unlikely the whole band or movie set are in the same boat.


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

I’d say it depends, and for me personally it’s probably for inconsistent reasons. 

I’ve thrown out my Cosby records. I just don’t find him funny anymore. I mean his stories were some of the funniest ever, but I hear them differently now because his voice represents something else in my head. 

I haven’t totally cut off Zeppelin and Bowie, but knowing Page and Bowie shared a teenage groupie that they housed and shuttles around for their personal pleasure, makes me enjoy their music a lot less. I’m certainly not throwing new money their way.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

That's why celebrity's gossip is a topic I happily cultivate ignorance about. I don't have such a problem.


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

it depends a bit on perception management

the guys in zeppelin weren't making a secret of their behaviour at the time. niether was johnny cash. it was kinda out in the open. ever watch the bob dylan movie about the rolling thunder review? the woman who went about carrying a sword did it partly for show and theatrics but partly to keep the men in the band from assaulting her. they were jerks and perverts but they weren't pretending to be anything else so it was objectionable but it wasn't wolf in sheep's clothing it was just plain wolf

arcade fire have made some noise about being a lot more ethical and safe space and so on. so there's some sense of deception and coverup involved in addition to the behaviour and that after the fact two faced part of it rubs the wrong way separately from the acts themselves in some sense. i don't know if he's used this as an excuse extensively but butler has said that he had a hard time managing himself for a while after his family experienced a miscarriage. that was a real WTF moment for me. his partner is in the band FFS what was she going about grabbing young boys and causing general nuisance as a result of her experience? no she was not and it was slimey of him to bring it up even if the intent was explanation rather than excuse. 

j


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

This is tough for me, knowing that some of my absolute favourite artists were a) abusive towards women b) basically sexual predators. Steven Tyler went after teenagers, as did Page and Ted Nugent. Tony Iommi beat the hell out of Lita Ford when they were engaged. EVH was not the most faithful husband, and neither was Sammy.

Yet at the same time, I think one has to consider the context it was happening in. What was acceptable between, say, 1965 and 1975, can be frowned upon as society changes and evolves. But none of the egregious examples deserves a free pass.

And Bill Cosby should be in jail. Full stop.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Not hiding shitty behaviour doesnt magically make it less terrible.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Anybody care to compile a list?

It may be a long one and filled with some of the best music, art et cetera on the planet.

It's a very deep rabbit hole.


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

I draw the line at Prince Andrew.


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

There is a certain amount of freedom that comes with not knowing much about a musician's personal life. Too much information can sometimes make it difficult to enjoy a musician's work without getting side tracked in judgement.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

I don't apologize nor do I feel guilty for enjoying the music of objectionable or weird people. Jerry Lee Lewis, The Jackson 5, Eric Clapton, Ted Nugent are all ok by me.

Now if we could get Bill Cosby and Pee Wee Herman to do a duet, I'd be down for that.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Fans tend to ignore the bad stuff of their idols.
It's the world we live in.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> ... does the life style and personal choices that musicians in bands make you decide whether you listen to them or not.


No, these days I only listen to music to find something that I can take from it; I don't give a rats about the social implications. I'm just looking for a song that I could do or a riff that I could use.




guitarman2 said:


> ... They're only allegations yet many would like to see them canceled.


As a general proposition, we have progressed to a stage where an unsubstantiated allegation alone is sufficient and denial of the allegation is proof of guilt.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I was cancelling before it was a culture. No Clapton zone.


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## Skynyrds Innyrds (5 mo ago)

Jalexander said:


> I’d say it depends, and for me personally it’s probably for inconsistent reasons.
> 
> I’ve thrown out my Cosby records. I just don’t find him funny anymore. I mean his stories were some of the funniest ever, but I hear them differently now because his voice represents something else in my head.
> 
> I haven’t totally cut off Zeppelin and Bowie, but knowing Page and Bowie shared a teenage groupie that they housed and shuttles around for their personal pleasure, makes me enjoy their music a lot less. I’m certainly not throwing new money their way.



Page and Bowie were far from the only ones she slept with.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Years ago, I made the mistake of reading an unredacted EVH interview (at Eddie's determined insistence) in Guitar magazine (not Guitar Player). Even the writers and editors in that rag who worshiped his every move thought he came across as a semi-paranoid teenager - and so did I. It was a childish rant at everyone - and nothing was his fault.

It took me a long time to shake off the influence of that 1 article and see his music for just his music and not coming from some childish schoolboy. So yeah, I try not to dig too much into the sleaze of their lives. But knowing some stuff is unavoidable, like MJ.


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## jimmythegeek (Apr 17, 2012)

To varying degrees. If I disagree with someone’s political opinion I can usually set that aside and enjoy the music. As I am a totally imperfect person I can also admit that that it’s easier for me to ignore the music of folks I didn’t really like or where I don’t really have any skin in the game. I had never read Harry Potter and had no interest in ever doing so. Subsequently, it’s easy for me to say “I find JK Rowling’s view of trans people repugnant and I won’t support her financially.” East Coast cool jazz isn’t my thing so I’m fine ignoring Chet Baker because he spent most of his time shooting smack, leeching off of women for money and then repaying them by beating them.

I’m a big Arcade Fire fan and I find the allegations unsettling; especially since Win Butler’s position is essentially “I definitely did all those things but I have a differing view of the situation than my accuser so it’s probably fine. I feel bad for them though.” Win being a piece of shit won’t change the fact that he wrote some songs that mean a lot to me. The fact that he wrote those songs also doesn’t oblige me to support his endeavours forever; even if he is supposedly becoming a victim of the right wing boogeyman of “cancel culture.”


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Tough question. I still wrestle with playing a Moxy Fruvous (Gian Ghomeshi) tune that I know. A while back Don Ross wrote a few very thoughtful blog posts about removing his cover of Gnarls Barkley's "Crazy" from his set list and then eventually reinstating it. 

In the end, we all have secrets that would cause us shame if they reached the light of day. If the person in question does the work of healing and getting healthy, and makes amends when possible, I have no trouble at all with appreciating their art. It gets murkier when they get caught and either deny or offer empty apologies. Generally, I can separate the personality from the art, but not always.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

bw66 said:


> Tough question. I still wrestle with ............. (Gian Ghomeshi)


Ghomeshi was an affirmative action POS. I'd never heard of him until he was charged and I don't care if he lives or if he dies however the evidence against him was seriously fabricated. That said though I fully understand that convictions based upon fabricated evidence are the way of the future in this country and I'm laughing at that because it's not my farm and it sure as fuck ain't my pig. But it's a system that people here seem OK with and it's their country not mine so have at er...lol


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Wardo said:


> the evidence against him was seriously fabricated.


The stuff he freely admitted to was disturbing enough for me.


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## Permanent Waves (Jun 2, 2020)

I am a huge fan of both music and movies, and I always separate the artist from the art. In fact, for many artists, it seems there may be a direct link between their talent and their human shortcomings. The problem is that nowadays, all culture and history is being reviewed in the narrow lens of current mores and social climate, and a lot of this doesn't reflect very well in this light. I see Arcade Fire going down the same pipe Hedley did. I am not sure if there will be any judicial ramifications from the allegations, but they seemed to pale in comparison to what I read in "Hammer Of The Gods" and I just heard a Led Zep song on the radio on the way home. If we are to analyze every artist in this light, we might as well close all the cinemas, art galleries, concert halls and radio stations and amuse ourselves with TV commercials and muzak. For the record, JFK and MLK were known serial philanderers, but that does not take anything away from all the great things they did.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

R.Kelly raped 25,000 people. And sang “change gon come” better than anyone on Earth.

I am able to listen to that sing and be like “hot dog that guy can sing” and in the same breath “as well as rape.. unfortunately”…

I don’t like R.Kelly, I’m just making a point that we are all capable of consuming media. Acknowledging that Charles Mansons “close to you” is hauntingly beautiful doesn’t mean that you are ok with what he did when he wasn’t singing.

Both obviously extreme examples.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Permanent Waves said:


> If we are to analyze every artist in this light, we might as well close all the cinemas, art galleries, concert halls and radio stations and amuse ourselves with *TV commercials* and muzak.











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Nestle is one of the largest food companies in the world that is known as the evilest company on the planet. Want to find out why?. Take a look.




startuptalky.com


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

To varying degrees. Nugent is a douche, but he hasn't released anything worthwhile since 1975 anyway...I sometimes forget he's still a thing. Phil Spector isn't as easy to avoid, perhaps...I mean, you can't swing a cat without hitting something he touched. Page, I can look the other way, and kinda wonder if he has regret...I do do that with my heroes. 

"Let he who is without sin..." I live in too much the figurative glass house to throw stones. Besides, I'm kind of an ass myself.

Sure am glad I'm not remembered for the worst of my behaviour.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

On a personal level, I don't give a rats bottom what people do in their daily lives. The fact it turns out you may or may not be a shitty person should not deprive me of something I love and why should it? I don't support rape or abuse by enjoying the music of some artist who just may happen to be a total waste of carbon but why should it remove my ability to take enjoyment from something that is created. Why let the actions of an artist do further harm by letting them remove joy from your daily life. 

That being said, if someone happened to name their album "I am a kiddy diddling, sexist, racist, homophobe who beats my wife for fun and plows down school kids in my 82' Monte Carlo" then maybe I probably would not gravitate towards that in the fist place but I will be honest, if it came to light after the fact and there was something I liked already, it wouldn't much change my mind.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

Mark Brown said:


> On a personal level, I don't give a rats bottom what people do in their daily lives. The fact it turns out you may or may not be a shitty person should not deprive me of something I love and why should it? I don't support rape or abuse by enjoying the music of some artist who just may happen to be a total waste of carbon but why should it remove my ability to take enjoyment from something that is created. Why let the actions of an artist do further harm by letting them remove joy from your daily life.
> 
> That being said, if someone happened to name their album "I am a kiddy diddling, sexist, racist, homophobe who beats my wife for fun and plows down school kids in my 82' Monte Carlo" then maybe I probably would not gravitate towards that in the fist place but I will be honest, if it came to light after the fact and there was something I liked already, it wouldn't much change my mind.


Well, Nugent and Tyler both sang songs called "Jailbait" and are know for their predilection for teenaged girls back in the 70s. Funny how Ted never brings that up when "owning the libs." 

And I find the lyrics to those and to "Christine Sixteen" somewhat disturbing now that I have a little girl running around the house.

And I damn sure have issues with any musician that drives a 1982 Monte Carlo.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Rollin Hand said:


> Well, Nugent and Tyler both sang songs called "Jailbait" and are know for their predilection for teenaged girls back in the 70s. Funny how Ted never brings that up when "owning the libs."
> 
> And I find the lyrics to those and to "Christine Sixteen" somewhat disturbing now that I have a little girl running around the house.
> 
> And I damn sure have issues with any musician that drives a 1982 Monte Carlo.







I don't know, I have 3 daughters and this is probably still my favorite song of all time


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Give other girls a chance. lol


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Wardo said:


> Ghomeshi was an affirmative action POS. I'd never heard of him until he was charged and I don't care if he lives or if he dies however _the evidence against him was seriously fabricated. That said though I fully understand that convictions based upon fabricated evidence are the way of the future in this country_ and I'm laughing at that because it's not my farm and it sure as fuck ain't my pig. But it's a system that people here seem OK with and it's their country not mine so have at er...lol


He (Ghomeshi) would be in jail today if he hadn't kept the emails from his accusers that dated after the proposed incidents.


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

I grew up in the South, I'm a big fan of Country music and I play a lot of it. But let's be honest and admit that Country and Country Rock have their share of artists who are intolerant bigots and proud of it. They've got a right to believe what they do and as long as they keep it between themselves I can live with that. Besides if I threw out every song that I know was once performed by a bigot I'd lose a whole lot of good material. Now when it comes to someone like David Allan Coe that's where this liberal red neck goes full stop. That kind of crap has no place in my ears or in my music.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

BEACHBUM said:


> .... Now when it comes to someone like David Allan Coe ...


I was at a jam party last weekend in canada. People were rip roaring drunk, having a good time, bonfire the whole bit and ready to take up arms for what they weren't sure but they were convinced that something needed to be done right away. Anyway, I was playing my usual "raised hell on the backroads ever since the day I's born and I'll fire eight shots in your back when you run" kinda shit and these bull honk canadians are shoutin play a David Allan Coe song ... lol


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

^^ Most folks know him for "You Never Even Called Me By My Name" but if you research his lesser known material you'll find some very sick stuff.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

BEACHBUM said:


> .. if you research his lesser known material you'll find some very sick stuff.


Only thing I ever heard from him was Forever For Always For Certain which is probably lesser known material - not sure if that is regarded as sick stuff. It may well be.


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

^^
Search Wikipedia under "The Underground Album" that he released in the 70's. I'd post the link but it would probably get me kicked out of here.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I know I've said it shouldn't matter (or words to that effect), but when I stop to think about it, if I haven't heard an artist's music, and see him standing on a stage, wearing, let's say for example, a red hat, I have to admit it's very unlikely I would seek out that person's music.

Now if I hear the music first and like it, I might be able to overlook stupid personal behaviour.

Double standard? Maybe, but I'm just being honest.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Milkman said:


> I know I've said it shouldn't matter (or words to that effect), but when I stop to think about it, if I haven't heard an artist's music, and see him standing on a stage, wearing, let's say for example, a red hat, I have to admit it's very unlikely I would seek out that person's music.
> 
> Now if I hear the music first and like it, I might be able to overlook stupid personal behaviour.
> 
> Double standard? Maybe, but I'm just being honest.


Don't look now


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

BlueRocker said:


> Don't look now
> 
> View attachment 435838


Exceptions can be made.

(I can't get me no.....)


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 435839


Indeed.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

If it influences their song content--maybe.
But otherwise--nobody's perfect, and you could find something to rule out just about all much--depends where you draw the line.
On one hand if it's satire or something like that--I could put up with more--but if they are making fun of something in a weird way--maybe.

It depends I guess.


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