# Looking To Start Building Pedals



## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

So I want to try and start building my own pedals as I think it will be fun and force me to work on my soldering skills. Couple questions for those who have already done this.

1) Should I start with a strip board or buy PCBs?
1b) If PCBs are the way to go who makes the best boards 
2) Buying parts I assume you just look up that parts required for a specific pedal or is there a bulk starter kit that can be bought with a bunch of random stuff
2b) Or is better to buy everything in a kit from a BYOC or similar
3) What is a rookie mistake you can stop me from doing? Also as an FYI electrical is my background, I have dabbled in electronics in trade school so I understand the basics of electronics and quite knowledgeable about electrical concepts and reading schematics 

Also I own an electrical contracting company so for the Hammond enclosures I'm going to go through my suppliers. I'm also going to see if any of my suppliers have accounts with mouser or anything similar so I can order that way and get my trade discount, however this is a crap shoot and will most likely not happen.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

BYOC makes the best all in kits. I’ve made pedals all different ways - from scratch and a schematic and made full kits from a few companies. 
pedal building can be super frustrating so I recommend doing something smooth to start with. Get good results to start with and Build your skills.


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## CathodeRay (Jan 12, 2018)

Yeah, as Cups said, I'd start with a kit that includes the board and parts. And choose a simple circuit like a fuzz. If that's a snap, move on to parts sourcing and making your own boards, OR modding your existing first fuzz. Smaller steps will significantly decrease the chances of death re the fun factor.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

Thanks guys, the plan was definitely to start with ODs and similar style circuits & MAYBE eventually moving to Delays and modulation once I wrap my head around it. To be honest though I was kinda looking forward on having to trouble shoot some pedals. I know ill be pissed while doing it but trouble shooting has always been fun, figuring our where and why the signal has stopped. Now in saying that Id need to start on a simple OD style circuit before id want to move on to a more complex circuit.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1) If you haven't done so already, join the diystompbox forum. A more helpful and pleasant bunch of people you will not find anywhere.
2) For the 20+ years I've been fielding questions from people whose circuits weren't working, a significant share have been from those using stripboard. Yes, it provides a more secure mounting of each component, so you don't get jiggling and potential fracture from that jiggling. But it is confusing as heck to test because the layouts aren't allowed to reflect subcircuits very well. Parts of subcircuit X are over _here_ while the rest of it is over_ there_ and some is over _there_. That said, there are a truckload of stripboard layouts available online, and often for some very desirable pedals. But it's better to avoid them until you have more builds under your belt. Until then, I recommend either using a pre-made board or simply buying cheap pedals and modding them to hone your chops.
3) So many companies make boards these days - often selling what they've outsourced to professional etching services - that there is no real recommendation of who is "best". They're all professionally done and have legending. Francisco Pena's *Tonepad* site and J.D. Sleep's* General Guitar Gadgets* site were among the first to offer up boards and are still going. They have been joined by a multitude of others, like *Madbean*, *DeadEndFX*, *PedalPCB*, *BYOC*, and others. Personally, I etch my own boards, but that's for folks farther along. Hapy to chat with you about it as time goes on.
4) Often, it comes down to who provides better service, and has the choice of boards you want in the layout you want. So, for instance, a given circuit might be laid out in anticipation of a Hammond 1590A enclosure, OR a 1590B, or 125-C enclosure. You may prefer using the one enclosure size/style over another. E.g., as pedalboards get more cluttered, people have shown a gradual preference for rear-mounted jacks over side-mounted ones, such that pedals can be snuggled up against each other. Not easily done with a 1590A, and occasionally tricky with a 1590B. Some places like *Tayda* (where many DIY-ers get their parts from, and they also have a limited assortment of pre-made boards) sell powder-coated pre-machined enclosures in various sizes and colours.
5) My friend Steve Daniels has been operating *Small Bear Electronics* out of Brooklyn for close to 20 years. It started out as an anybody-want-in-on-this-part-I-can-get-a-great-bulk-price-on post on the diystompbox forum, and bit by bit turned into a thriving business that services not only hobbyist builders, but a lot of commercial clients and many "boutique" pedal companies as well. Steve has decided to close down the business...slowly...over the next few months, and take a much-deserved retirement. SBE carries a lot of pedal parts you are unlikely to find anywhere else. A little pricier than some other places (especially when you factor in shipping), but then would you rather pay $10 for two transistors, or $200 for a Fuzz Face you like? At the very least, worth checking out. Be forewarned, though, because he's gradually phasing out the business, many things are transitioning from in to out-of-stock.
6) Tips. _a)_ I like to keep as many colours of wire (#24 stranded, but #22 is fine also) on hand as possible, and use a colour code so I can keep things straight. So, for instance, I like to use white for input, blue for output, purple for drive, yellow/orange/brown for treble/mid/bass, and black (for a single-ended supply) or green (for a bipolar supply) for ground. I find a personal "standard" for which colour wires carry which parameters helps when trying to troubleshoot, and ESPECIALLY when trying to remember what does what when you finally get back to something 8 months after you started working on it.
_b)_ Parts will come in little plastic bags. Very handy to put partly completed circuits in their own bag and label the bag. Again, VERY easy to find yourself a few parts short of completing something, and have it sitting awaiting completion a LONG time later.
_c)_ Cannot recommend solder-wick highly enough. Pump-style solder suckers can work nicely under certain circumstances, but solder-wick is more efficient and neater. Good to have two widths on hand, with a narrower width for getting in tight spaces.
_d)_ In tandem with solder wick, I recommend getting a small bottle of liquid flux. Helps a lot with efficient tinning, and if you dab some on the solder wick with a Q-tip, supercharges the solder-wick.
_e) _Amateur builders often don't get in a shipment of shiny parts and use them the same day. So leads get a little oxidized over time. Good to keep a utility knife or X-acto blade handy to scrape tarnish off and make a better solder joint.
_f)_ As wonderful as flux is, when it dries, it dries shiny, so it can obscure unintentional solder bridges. I find a useful step in preparing a board for troubleshooting is to take an old toothbrush with some methyl hydrate and scrub the copper side of the board to dissolve the flux. Not required for making the board work, but makes it a whole lot easier to visually inspect the board and verify that solder joints are good and no solder has linked traces that shouldn't be linked.

and finally...

7) When people want to get started in making pedals, I often recommend making a simple passive loop selector. Space for 6 jacks and two stompswitches can easily be found in a 125-C enclosure and certainly in a 1590BB. Easy to get bored with one's first dirt pedal, but a loop-selector will ALWAYS be useful, even years later. Plus, very little to damage during construction, and no fancy-schmancy parts to get hold of. And, chances are pretty good, that someone who wants to get *into* building pedals, already has a bunch of them, so something that helps manage the herd is a welcome addition.

That'll get you started. Welcome to the dark side!

OH, and since we're in the same city, I have all sorts of unused etched PCBs hanging around, a stack of toner-transfers for making your own PCBs, and plenty of examples to inspect. You're welcome to come on by. I will also recommend NextGen as a partial parts supplier. Good prices, though limited selection. Note that Jon is as hamstrung by supply-chain issues as everybody else, so be patient.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

@mhammer that's a whole lot of fantastic info and a bit to digest, I also see you are from Ottawa so I may need to buy you a beer and pick your brain a bit more


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Make it a diet cola and you're on. And when Festival Sonore in Montreal happens next April, you'll have to come along. Though mostly for luthiers, there is a sizeable representation of pedal-makers there, Canadian and American, as well as the "Ottawa pedal mafia" (Empress, Retro-Sonic, Fairfield), who are always pleasant to chat with and learn from.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

jfk911 said:


> So I want to try and start building my own pedals as I think it will be fun and force me to work on my soldering skills. Couple questions for those who have already done this.
> 
> 1) Should I start with a strip board or buy PCBs?
> 1b) If PCBs are the way to go who makes the best boards
> ...


1) Stripboard teaches you more - you get more intimate with the circuit and learn how it works better. On the other hand it's messy and harder to work on (especially re-work eg in case of a mistake or failed part) than a PCB. Stripboard also limits you to simpler circuits (mostly dirt) at least in the beginning till you bone up yer skills. Some cool things are non PCB though - check out the Stupid Simple Overdrive (single transistor germanium drive using the leakage as the bias voltage).

1b) Most providers are of the same quality - modern doublesided screen printed and sometimes custom colour/shape boards. The real differentiation factors are quality of the accompanying documentation /support as well as layout/circuit flexibility (including available child boards for the stomp switch wiring). That said my top 2 are:

Aion (Projects) - best docs in the biz and very well thought out layouts. Get official support from Aion on DIYstompboxes.org or unnofficial from the user community on the mad bean board.

madbeanpedals - also very good documentation and dedicated forum for support

Others I like:
Fuzzdog (https://shop.pedalparts.co.uk/ )- UK based so shipping kits is expensive but a PCB or 2 can go regular lettermail so cheap

Parasit Studio (https://www.parasitstudio.se/store/c1/Featured_Products.html ) for weirder stuff (original designs vs clones)

2) Pretty much. There are starter parts kits but I don't think they're all that great /complete. See Aion's website for a good rundown of what to buy and where. SmallBear has some starter kits and is best for reliable out of production chips/transistors. See also LoveMySitches and Tayda in addition to Mouser and Digikey. If you know you're gonna be into this buy 100 packs of quality most common resistor/box film cap values from one of those last 2 - xicon resistors will be cheaper than Tayda offbrands this way


https://diyeffectspedals.com/common-diy-guitar-effects-pedal-components/



2b) it's easier, but you also can't make your own selections (e.g. known brands vs generics, sometimes you can use various chips or clipping diodes for different tones - many kits are just repackaged Tayda parts, and I shop at Tayda, but some stuff I won't buy there or prefer other things). worth trying as a first time out and to build confidence, but I skipped it when I was a noob. Not using a kit involves learning more skills at once - not just soldering and following the instructions (troubleshooting etc) but also enclosure fabrication.

3) too ambitious a first project. Even if a kit. Start with a smaller part count simple circuit. Most providers will grade projects by difficulty. Then there's testing BEFORE you put the thing in the box (remember to jumper the out jack to the in for ground bc the enclosure isn't making that connection for you). Don't use the enclosure drill templates especially with board mounted pots and switches - there's some play there depending on how centered you soldered them in. It's a rough guide only, like how far from the top/bottom things need to be for the jacks and stomp switch to fit etc. Measure it out for yourself based on the completed board in your hand.



Cups said:


> BYOC makes the best all in kits. I’ve made pedals all different ways - from scratch and a schematic and made full kits from a few companies.
> pedal building can be super frustrating so I recommend doing something smooth to start with. Get good results to start with and Build your skills.


Disagree. I mean no diss; they're good, but just the first to market for this biz model and the largest/best known. Now that Aion does kits I'd put them higher on the list mostly due to better parts and screen printed vs bare (and unsanded) enclosures.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Personally, I go for perfboard and pad-per-hole over stripboard, but that's a personal preference, rather than a hard and fast rule. I'm a compulsive modder, and also have gobs of surplus parts I have to use up. Stripboard presumes certain component sizes and spacing, much like PCBs. I like the freedom to use whatever size components I want and space them how I want, as well as change things to the circuit, and perf accommodates that. Whatever one uses, though, always make sure the pads on the board are nice and shiny, so they make for good solder joints. In that spirit, keep some fine steel wool or scotchbrite pads around, to buff things up to shiny when called for.

And agreed that all PCB providers are pretty much of equal quality. Again, in addition to whatever the documentation quality might be, you'll want to compare layouts. For instance, does the board layout assume that all controls will be lined up along one edge and assume a 1590BB enclosure rotated in_ that _direction? None of them will be terrible layouts. They just may not anticipate the way you want to build and situate a pedal. But, given how much overlap there can be in what the providers carry, it helps to shop around, and at least confirm for yourself that, yeah, _that_ one suits my plans.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

wow guys, this is exactly what I was looking for thanks to both of you. @Granny Gremlin I definitely would of been pissed with the negative/ground, I would of metered it out and eventually figured it out but you saved me a hassle already!


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

I like perf board too, basically because you can lay it out like the schematic. I’ve never tried strip. It just doesn’t make sense to me. 
I haven’t tried Aion, but I remember doing a bunch of perf board builds and then doing a BYOC and feeding like it was sooo easy and smooth. Been out of the game a while though so probably shouldn’t say what’s “best”


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## superfly (Oct 14, 2021)

It looks like you just want to build the pedal and play it, regardless of the process involved. In that case, a kit would suit you best Any kit that's well reviewed will do, as long as you know how to use a soldering iron and have basic mechanic skills.

I've designed (simple ones) and built pedals from scratch, and that's a bit different experience, starting from studying and understanding schematic diagrams, designing the layout of the PCB, hand drawing/printing/etching the PCB's and completing the builds with a custom made case (folded sheet metal). This process is a bit more involved and error prone. If you don't mind the troubleshooting, swearing at hardware and yourself, spending money on parts again and again (ok, chances for this are very low, since the currents are not high enough to do major damage) and scrapping the projects and starting from scratch when sometimes you simply cannot find the error, than this is a bit more fun and the pride is guaranteed at the end, when the thing you built starts producing sound.

The halfway method would be finding a PCB layout that's pre-designed and etch the board yourself, solder it and put it in a premade box.

All of the methods above are rewarding in their own way and at the end you get to enjoy a thing you made yourself. What is probably the most valuable thing from the whole experience is the knowledge gained in the process...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Forty years ago, etching a PCB from a layout in a magazine was a tedious process. I would photocopy the layout, tape it to the copper side, and use my spring-loaded centre-punch to pop "dimples" through the paper where each pad was. Once the board was fully "dimpled", you take off the paper and, making sure to keep one's "finger juice" off the bare copper (it causes oxidation and impairs etching in that spot), join up the dots with a fine-tipped waterproof marker. My own preference was for Staedtler Lumocolor. I'd often use 2 or even 3 colours; one colour for each "coating", so I could keep track of what traces/pads would be coated thick enough to resist the etchant. Eventually, rub-on transfers became available, and I could simply line up, say, a transfer for an 8-pin chip with the corresponding "dimples", rub it on, and connect the pads to other points.

Needless to say, it was laborious, but there weren't many other choices. Aside from places like PAiA in Oklahoma, there weren't many makers of effect PCBs, and not that many layouts published in magazines. And, of course, this was well before Paypal, when a money-order would need to be purchased and mailed to the board-provider.

When Press-N-Peel technology arrived, in tandem with inexpensive layout-design software, and laser printers, it was a revolution. For a little while, it was necessary to use copy centers or library photocopiers, since PnP requires laser toner, and personal laser printers had not come down in price enough to permit producing boards entirely at home. Many forum posts were about the struggles people had, persuading someone at a Kinko's that their sheet of PnP Blue was identical to overhead transparencies and would not melt and destroy their expensive Xerox behemoths.

These days, in addition to the cornucopia of stripboard layouts of recent and classic pedals, abley assisted by by stripboard layout software, PCB layouts show up with surprising speed. I've posted designs on the stompbox forum, with hastily drawn schematics, and within days someone has produced and posted a layout for this and that enclosure. It is an embarrassment of riches.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

Thanks guys I’m going to continue researching and hopefully build my first pedal in the next month. I just need to finish my washroom reno first so my wife does not loose her shit!


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

Another questions, I have put together an order for the Duocast and DRV from Tayda and next Gen guitars. For Next Gen I can pick up the order here in Ottawa for Tayda they offer a registered mail option but say its anywhere from 7 - 120 days... is it worth it to bump up to DHL or should I stay with the mail option, total order is about $30 USD. Then all I need to do is source the transformer for the duocast and a germanium transistor.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I order from Tayda and it traditionally takes about 3-4 weeks, sometimes longer, but never as long as ordering something from China through Banggood or Aliexpress. Note that DHL* will* charge you duty and a brokerage fee for "graciously" paying it on your behalf, while Canada Post will not*****. They also did not notify me they were coming to deliver something, so because I wasn't home at the time, I had to drive all the way over to their depot behind the Museum of Science & Tech. to get it. So unless it is something you absolutely positively HAVE to have in less than 3 weeks or else you're gonna die, take the cheaper postal option. You'll be saving not only the small difference in shipping costs but a whole lot more.

Now, the shipping-container shortage, world-wide, has messed with shipping times for a lot of places, and coming _from_ a lot of places. Sometimes my Tayda order comes from Singapore, and sometimes from Germany. I gather postal rates can vary from country to country for things of such-and-such a size or weight, so they ship from wherever is cheapest for whatever they're sending.

****EDIT*: Well, most of the time. When I was at the post office yesterday, a guy was complaining about having to pay duty for a package he had received from the same source several times before without having to pay duty. My one annoying interaction with DHL, I was told that they have to show to authorities that duty is being paid for everything they pick up. They charge a flat "brokerage" fee for paying that duty, regardless of whether the package is $20 or $2000 worth of goods. And forking out an extra $20 on a $45 order does NOT make for a happy day. Canada Post is not going to chase down every Tom, Dick, and Harriet for 40 cents worth of duty, and since duty is paid at the post office by the recipient, there is no brokerage fee. I can't think of the last time I paid duty on a Tayda order. Unless all the bins for packages at our mailbox location are full, the thick bubble-envelope of parts just shows up in our mail slot, without needing to be picked up at the post office. Long story short, unless you're a business that desperately needs just-in-time delivery of large quantities, avoid DHL.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

mhammer said:


> Forty years ago, etching a PCB from a layout in a magazine was a tedious process. I would photocopy the layout, tape it to the copper side, and use my spring-loaded centre-punch to pop "dimples" through the paper where each pad was. Once the board was fully "dimpled", you take off the paper and, making sure to keep one's "finger juice" off the bare copper (it causes oxidation and impairs etching in that spot), join up the dots with a fine-tipped waterproof marker. My own preference was for Staedtler Lumocolor. I'd often use 2 or even 3 colours; one colour for each "coating", so I could keep track of what traces/pads would be coated thick enough to resist the etchant. Eventually, rub-on transfers became available, and I could simply line up, say, a transfer for an 8-pin chip with the corresponding "dimples", rub it on, and connect the pads to other points.
> 
> Needless to say, it was laborious, but there weren't many other choices. Aside from places like PAiA in Oklahoma, there weren't many makers of effect PCBs, and not that many layouts published in magazines. And, of course, this was well before Paypal, when a money-order would need to be purchased and mailed to the board-provider.
> 
> ...



Ever just try printing the PCB layout in negative and mirror image, laying it (ink down) on the copper clad and leaving it under a hot iron for a bit? The ink transfers and serves as a mask for the etchant.

with the ubiquity of home laser printers (it has to be laser and glossy paper - a photocopier qualifies) that's how the kids do it these days. Same process as for acid etching graphics on an enclosure.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Ever just try printing the PCB layout in negative and mirror image, laying it (ink down) on the copper clad and leaving it under a hot iron for a bit? The ink transfers and serves as a mask for the etchant.
> 
> with the ubiquity of home laser printers (it has to be laser and glossy paper - a photocopier qualifies) that's how the kids do it these days. Same process as for acid etching graphics on an enclosure.


*Toner* transfers, ink not so much. Attempts to transfer layouts printed with an inkjet printer will be met with disappointment.

One can laser-print a PCB layout to a great many different surfaces, not just PnP. I've tried them all. The underlying principle is that the medium one prints the layout onto have some sort of layer or emulsion _on top of_ the sheet. When one lays the pattern down on a _clean shiny_ copper board, and sufficient heat is applied, the toner "wants" to stick to the copper surface more than the emulsion wants to adhere to its backing. Once it cools down, you peel away the backing and voila. One can use glossy white photo paper or even glossy pages from magazines (National Geographic anyone?), because they have a thin coaing on top of the paper sheet. Regular photocopier paper or newsprint won't work because the toner gets embedded into the paper fibres and not laid down on the emulsion layer on top...because there IS no emulsion layer.

Personally, I've saved PnP for layouts with fine detail and traces running between IC pins. The granularity of the material in the sheet determins how "cleanly" the toner breaks away from the backing sheet when you peel it away. Some photo paper may have a nice emulsion layer to print onto, but when you peel the paper away, the traces and pads have a "fibrous" blurry edge to them. Quite sufficient for a 2-transistor fuzz with thick traces/pads and lots of space between them, but not at all the sort of thing one wants to use for making highly detailed boards. An acetate sheet is not fibrous at all, so the toner breaks away cleanly.

Then there's the challenge of knowing when one has applied "enough" heat. The printed toner image is not especially thick, but the acetate sheet of PnP is pretty thin. So as the layout adheres to the copper, the parts of the backing sag around where the toner is, producing a sort of "bas relief" of the layout that is easily visible. When you can see appropriate sage around every trace and pad, It's well transferred. Cool it down and the sheet peels away nicely. Do not attempt to peel it off before it has gotten cool or else the pattern will not fully transfer. While glossy magazine paper "works", if there is an image on the page, it becomes hard to see if the pattern has properly transferred. And magazine pages with one continuous light colour (e.g., blue sky) are hard to come by.

These days I use something I stocked up on that has MUCH higher resolution than photo paper or magazine pages. It feels a bit like wax paper, and is a teensy bit longer than 11-1/2". It cost me about 15 cents a sheet, whidch is a damn sight better than the [email protected] that PnP costs. I find the crispness of the transfer perfectly adequate for a great many layouts, and have used it for synth modules on double-sided boards.

Because toner-transfer is an imperfect process, I pretty much always print out at least 3 of whatever layout I want to etch, so that I have a spare if I have to scrub away a bad transfer and start over. Of course, that means I have a VERY large stash of spare toner layouts sitting around for those who wish to etch their own boards.


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## scotheath (Mar 23, 2020)

Tayda has DIY PCBs and all the components you need for those, they have everything needed to build pedals. Madbean is another good option, they just have the PCBs. Those are the only 2 sources I've ever used. With Madbean just download or print the PDF it will have components needed then go to Tayda and fill your cart. Tayda now has predrilled and painted enclosures which is really nice


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

mhammer said:


> *Toner* transfers, ink not so much. Attempts to transfer layouts printed with an inkjet printer will be met with disappointment.


Obviously that's what I meant since I specified laser printers/copiers, but shame on me as an IT guy for making this semantic error.

So what's this new stuff you're using now?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Obviously that's what I meant since I specified laser printers/copiers, but shame on me as an IT guy for making this semantic error.
> 
> So what's this new stuff you're using now?


I was buying it from Dipmicro in Niagara Falls, but they don't seem to carry it anymore. I think I ordered a stack through Banggood or one of those, some time ago, but can't remember. Here's what it looks like and an example of a transfer pattern. Poor lighting when I took the pic, so you can't see that one side is shiny and the other side dull paper. Print to the shiny side, where the emulsion is. About 90-95% as good as PnP, and 200% better than photo paper. Not _quite_ as thin a backing as PnP so you don't get quite the pronounced bas relief that tells you the pattern is fully transferred, but MUCH easier to tell itis fully transferred than with photo paper or magazine stock.


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## scotheath (Mar 23, 2020)

jfk911 said:


> Another questions, I have put together an order for the Duocast and DRV from Tayda and next Gen guitars. For Next Gen I can pick up the order here in Ottawa for Tayda they offer a registered mail option but say its anywhere from 7 - 120 days... is it worth it to bump up to DHL or should I stay with the mail option, total order is about $30 USD. Then all I need to do is source the transformer for the duocast and a germanium transistor.


I've never waited 120 days from Tayda and never paid extra for shipping. Month maybe 2 at the longest even during this " Pandemic" took 3 weeks for my last order. Sucks they do not carry germanium transistors though, I've had to resort to Ebay for those


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Germanium can't simply be bought new, the same way one can order in 20,000 silicon diodes or op-amps. They have to be measured and sorted, which is why Small Bear was the traditional supplier for many, why they cost so much, why they were often workalikes rather than the specific part number, and why supply was very limited.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

mhammer said:


> I was buying it from Dipmicro in Niagara Falls, but they don't seem to carry it anymore. I think I ordered a stack through Banggood or one of those, some time ago, but can't remember. Here's what it looks like and an example of a transfer pattern. Poor lighting when I took the pic, so you can't see that one side is shiny and the other side dull paper. Print to the shiny side, where the emulsion is. About 90-95% as good as PnP, and 200% better than photo paper. Not _quite_ as thin a backing as PnP so you don't get quite the pronounced bas relief that tells you the pattern is fully transferred, but MUCH easier to tell itis fully transferred than with photo paper or magazine stock.
> View attachment 384182


what's the product / what's it called?



scotheath said:


> I've never waited 120 days from Tayda and never paid extra for shipping. Month maybe 2 at the longest even during this " Pandemic" took 3 weeks for my last order. Sucks they do not carry germanium transistors though, I've had to resort to Ebay for those



Agreed. It can be even quicker if all the stuff you want is in stock at their NY warehouse.

watch out for parts on ebay though. Smallbear is best especially for noobs because everything is checked/tested unless otherwise stated, vs ebay where you gotta buy a bunch and test yourself/ there are duds. Especially germanium stuff which can have wild variations in leakage current. There's also lost of bad/fake PT and analog BBD chips. So it looks cheaper on ebay, but might not be.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> what's the product / what's it called?


I wish I knew. It's been so long since I last bought it. It will have a description of the form "toner transfer sheets" or something like that.

When I used Press-N-Peel blue, I would make a point of using every square inch of the sheet, by trimming photocopies/printouts of all the layouts I wanted, and would studiously rearange them this way and that, before taping them down, to fit as many on an 8.5 x 11 sheet as I could, before photocopying that page onto a sheet of PnP. At $2 a sheet, one didn't want to piss away a sheet on mistakes or blank space. This yellow stuff was $0.15 a pop last time I bought it, so I'm fine to use 2/3 of a page for the layouts I want and toss the leftovers.

EDIT: Well, that was fast. Lots of choices here: All roughly 3.5cents a sheet .




__





toner transfer - Buy toner transfer with free shipping on AliExpress


Quality toner transfer with free worldwide shipping on AliExpress




www.aliexpress.com


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## Alan Small (Dec 30, 2019)

jfk911 said:


> So I want to try and start building my own pedals as I think it will be fun and force me to work on my soldering skills. Couple questions for those who have already done this.
> 
> 1) Should I start with a strip board or buy PCBs?
> 1b) If PCBs are the way to go who makes the best boards
> ...


@Always12AM


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

@mhammer, I'm finalizing my order on Tayda but had 1 quick question. For two of the pedals they specifically ask for some of the capacitors to have a voltage of 25V or 35V or more. So would it be beneficial to get all 35V capacitors or is 16V fine for everything that they didn't specify to be 25V or 35V?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Typically, one wants a rating that is at least 1.5x the supply voltage. So, 16V rating is fine for a 9V supply. Of course, if one wishes to experiment later on with 12 or 15V, then a 16V rating is risky, so one moves up to 25V to cover all your bases. A 35V rating will most certainly cover ALL bases.

Bear in mind, though, that higher voltage rating often means a different physical size, so check the dimensions listed. Ideally, you want the leads from the cap to line up nicely with the holes in the board, rather than have to bend them to fit.

As an aside, there are plenty of instances where one doesn't have to use a voltage rating that presumes 1.5x the supply voltage. For instance, if there is an electrolytic cap on the output of the last stage, chances are pretty good that it is not spitting out anything discernibly greater than 1/2 the supply voltage. Some thing goes for the cap used to provide the Vref. So, for example, way over on the far right here of this Tube Screamer diagram, we see a pair of 10K resistors and a 47uf cap. The resistors divide the 9V supply in half to provide a 4.5V "bias" or "reference" voltage. If the 47uf cap is only seeing 4.5V, then its voltage rating doesn't have to be sky-high. Same thing with the 10uf output cap just below it. The audio output isn't going to be much more than a half volt or so, but sitting atop a 4.5 bias voltage coming in to Q2 via that 510k resistor.

Most of the time, one is going to simply buy up a bunch of caps whose rating is high enough for any application. Heck, in some instances, the only rating you can get for a given capacitance IS 50V. But if you find yourself in a jam, and only have lower voltage caps at the required cap value, there ARE places you can stick them that are quite safe for lower voltage ratings.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

Awesome thanks! Last piece is to track down an OC71 or MP21A transistor that I don't need to buy 20+ or pay $20 bucks shipping!


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

jfk911 said:


> Awesome thanks! Last piece is to track down an OC71 or MP21A transistor that I don't need to buy 20+ or pay $20 bucks shipping!


Yeah that's gonna be a hard time. See if you can contact Small Bear and ask if they can ship a single transistor as (oversize) letter mail in a bubble envelope so it's not insane shipping.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Someone sent me an OC70 a while back as a thank-you for something. Its measured hfe is 37. The listed hfe range for OC70s is 20-40 and 41+ for OC71. I don't know how much difference that will make in what you're building, but you are welcome to it if you want. I didn't pay anything for it so you don't have to either. I'm always happy to get a novice builder into deeper and deeper trouble.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

Thanks but it says the maximum voltage for the OC70 is 20V and most of the parts in the circuit say it must be a minimum of 35V as the pedal runs internally at 27V.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1) If you're using a charge pump, it's not running at 27V. Te diodes subtract voltage, such that "tripling" actually results in about 25.5V not 3x9V. But that's a minor detail.

2) Not sure what datasheet you're looking at but the one I'm staring at shows NO difference in working voltage between a 70 and 71. The offer stands. Just use a socket, and if you don't like the result, return the transistor. I'm confident that you won't blow it up.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

Thanks for the offer but i saw this too late, i found a mullard OC71 for $10 so I bought that. Ive pulled the trigger on everything so now its just a waiting game for everything to arrive. I ended up using Tayda, Newark, Ebay and PedalPCB, im pretty excited to get started Ill update once i finish my first build.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

If I may ask, what are you making? You mention Duocast and DRV but I see no trace of them on either Tayda or Nextgen sites.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Do you know how to use your meter to identify the pins on the transistor?


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

I bought the Duocast, Son of Ben, The Informant and Kliche off PedalPCB. I’m not super versed in electronics but had to take 3 courses while in trade school so I understand the fundamental basics. I’ll have a bit of re reading to do as a refresher but I’m not too worried about that.


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## Permanent Waves (Jun 2, 2020)

mhammer said:


> _c)_ Cannot recommend solder-wick highly enough. Pump-style solder suckers can work nicely under certain circumstances, but solder-wick is more efficient and neater. Good to have two widths on hand, with a narrower width for getting in tight spaces.
> _d)_ In tandem with solder wick, I recommend getting a small bottle of liquid flux. Helps a lot with efficient tinning, and if you dab some on the solder wick with a Q-tip, supercharges the solder-wick.


Great advice. I ordered some wick lately and it came very dry and does not seem to soak up any solder. Will have to try adding the flux.
Also, if you get the pump, don't get the bulb type, get the spring-loaded button-depressor ones. They work much better. I usually get the worst with the pump and clean the rest with the wick.
I have not done any projects in decades, but I was using Veroboard in the old days, with a Dremel to break the tracks where required. Not sure if it even exists anymore, but easy to work with.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veroboard


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It most certainly does exist, except it tends to get referred to as "stripboard".


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Permanent Waves said:


> Great advice. I ordered some wick lately and it came very dry and does not seem to soak up any solder. Will have to try adding the flux.


18 ga. line cord makes good, cheap solder wick. I've been using it for years. Strip an inch of insulation off the end, dip in liquid flux and desolder. People are always throwing out appliances with 2 conductor line cords. When we used to live in the city, when I was walking the dog on garbage day, I would carry a pair of diagonal cutter with me and snip-away when I came across one.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Paul Running said:


> 18 ga. line cord makes good, cheap solder wick. I've been using it for years. Strip an inch of insulation off the end, dip in liquid flux and desolder. People are always throwing out appliances with 2 conductor line cords. When we used to live in the city, when I was walking the dog on garbage day, I would carry a pair of diagonal cutter with me and snip-away when I came across one.


Great idea. Embarrassed I never thought of it. The lattice structure of solder wick probably absorbs more solder per linear inch than 18g zip cord, but the latter is a darn sight cheaper I have to say.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

jfk911 said:


> I bought the Duocast, Son of Ben, The Informant and Kliche off PedalPCB. I’m not super versed in electronics but had to take 3 courses while in trade school so I understand the fundamental basics. I’ll have a bit of re reading to do as a refresher but I’m not too worried about that.


In reference to the Informant schematic, you could eliminate a lot of caps by running a dual-rail supply, Vref becomes 0V. Most modern op-amps have negligible DC-offset which means a virtual ground, at output. Try to build your projects with a minimum quantity of caps...contrary to what some may say, coupling caps are over-rated...there are more effective methods to roll-off audio signals. The TL072 is good for ±20VDC so, ±9V or ±12V will provide a great deal of headroom.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

Paul Running said:


> 18 ga. line cord makes good, cheap solder wick. I've been using it for years. Strip an inch of insulation off the end, dip in liquid flux and desolder. People are always throwing out appliances with 2 conductor line cords. When we used to live in the city, when I was walking the dog on garbage day, I would carry a pair of diagonal cutter with me and snip-away when I came across one.


I’ll have to try this, in the back of my shop I have a ton of old SOW type cable. I forgot to get liquid flux so will have to order some before my stuff comes in.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

You could do the same with the Kliche:








The feedback-loop high-lighted in green has me wondering what the objective is? Anyway, same thing could apply with dual rails for the Kliche...maybe someone favours Lars Haagensen. Oddly most of the amp stuff did it way back in the 60s, why is it that pedals have not evolved to this level?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

jfk911 said:


> I’ll have to try this, in the back of my shop I have a ton of old SOW type cable. I forgot to get liquid flux so will have to order some before my stuff comes in.


You can pick some up at Gervais/Active-Tech on Industrial Ave., near Trainyards. I can't imagine the price is that much different than what is available on-line.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

@Paul Running I did a bit of reading on the dual rail supply this afternoon but will have to continue it further tomorrow as I'm dipping into the birthday beer now. It was an interesting read though and makes me excited to dive deeper into how each circuit functions. This thread has helped me out huge thanks a lot guys


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## Nork (Mar 27, 2010)

jfk911 said:


> So I want to try and start building my own pedals as I think it will be fun and force me to work on my soldering skills. Couple questions for those who have already done this.
> 
> 1) Should I start with a strip board or buy PCBs?
> 1b) If PCBs are the way to go who makes the best boards
> ...


yo dude. i found you! 

a) I miss your face. 
b) I don't miss that guitar.
c) yes. all of this. dudes here are good stuff.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

Nork said:


> yo dude. i found you!
> 
> a) I miss your face.
> b) I don't miss that guitar.
> c) yes. all of this. dudes here are good stuff.


a) Lets Hang out
b) Deep down you do
c) They have all been very helpful

I think there should be a whisky pedal building night, also start playing guitar again...


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## Nork (Mar 27, 2010)

jfk911 said:


> a) Lets Hang out
> b) Deep down you do
> c) They have all been very helpful
> 
> I think there should be a whisky pedal building night, also start playing guitar again...


i'm down for whiskey pedal night. i play in my basement! when my amp isn't in london. stop de railing your own thread. also - i recommend hanging out with @mhammer.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

Thanks guys for all the help and thanks Mark for taking the time to help me troubleshoot my first two pedals. I built 4 pedals and each had their own set of problems. By the third pedal I started getting use to soldering and really took my time and soldered a single value of components at a time.

The first was the Hudson Broadcast clone which was full of cold solder joints and i had used the NO contact on one of the I/O jacks

The second was a DRV 1981 clone, two of the capacitors had cold solder joints, again used the NO contacts on one of the I/O jacks and where the input Jack was situated it was shorting out cause if the pedal to randomly go silent. I should also mention I built the first two in a single sitting so making the NO mistake twice was before I realized the mistake.

The third was a Benson Preamp clone, I had wanted to re arrange the knobs to match the original instead of what the build called for. So I extended the pot wires so I could move them around, however in doing this it caused a lot of unwanted noise so I reverted back to PCB mount and bought a new enclosure. Then there was a grounding issue, again my stupid jacks I bought were insulated and did not ground the enclosure so I went out and bought metal jacks and replaced every single Jack and now works wonderfully.

Fourth was a Klone, this one I was adamant I would get it right the first try! I took my time with every solder joint and inspected each joint after I was done, tested every diode after it was installed especially the germanium ones as I broke the first trying to pull it tight to the board. After all is said and done I plug her in and it sounds like a pig squealing for its life. So look it over and start reflowing solder joints and to no avail she still squeals. Started searching the net for trouble shooting tips and stumbled across a thread that stated what the IC voltages should be for IC 1, 2 & 3 for my specific pedal. Low and behold all my voltages are about double so I start looking at the first couple components and they are all proper. Finally staring at the IC chips I realized I installed a LT1054 charge pump instead of the TL072CP as I must of mixed them up in the bags on a previous build swap those out and bamn my circuit works wonderfully

Besides trouble shooting I had a lot of fun and will definitely be doing this again, I just need to decide what I’m building next. Again thanks everybody for their time in responding to this thread, I have now found a new hobby!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Congrats....and... Welcome to your new hobby!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

You're on your way, bro!


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

For those of you that do your own design on pedals what do you find is the best way? I was thinking of doing the following designs on the pedals


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Paul Running said:


> You could do the same with the Kliche:
> View attachment 384597
> 
> The feedback-loop high-lighted in green has me wondering what the objective is? Anyway, same thing could apply with dual rails for the Kliche...maybe someone favours Lars Haagensen. Oddly most of the amp stuff did it way back in the 60s, why is it that pedals have not evolved to this level?


I sent the schematic back to Bill F., with the boards he sent me, so I'm not in a position to confirm or deny. But parts of that do not look _at all_ familiar.

I've frequently described the circuit as a "house of cards". It was certainly not developed on the basis of "pedal theory", but was developed in piecemeal fashion, by Bill asking the engineer he worked with "Could you get it to do a little more/less of X?", and the engineer (himself not a musician or pedal guy, as far as I knew) would add this or that on. So don't look for coherence. This is *not* the sort of circuit where you look at the schematic and think "Hmm, for my pickups/guitar/amp/speakers, I think I would need to change this to make it sound best." I can do that with plenty of other circuits, but NOT this one. Mystery wrapped in enigma, coated in epoxy.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Hey Justin,
I was etching some boards this weekend. I always try to find a productive use of the "remnants" of the copper board I have to cut up. It just so happened that one of those remnants was perfectly-sized for a Systech Harmonic Energizer, so I etched, tinned, and drilled it. I know I already have one, and maybe even two, so the board is yours if you want a "from scratch" build.


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## Nork (Mar 27, 2010)

jfk911 said:


> Besides trouble shooting I had a lot of fun and will definitely be doing this again, I just need to decide what I’m building next. Again thanks everybody for their time in responding to this thread, I have now found a new hobby!


 sweet. now let's build Mine. we could go nuts and both build compressors.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

Nork said:


> sweet. now let's build Mine. we could go nuts and both build compressors.


I’m down anytime

Mark sorry been a long week haven’t been on here much and missed your post. If the board is still available I will for sure take it if you still have an extra!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Still here. I can whip up some compressor boards for you two if you want. Any love for an Orange Squeezer?


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

My only experience is with optical, but with saying that I'm always down to try other circuits and experiment!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The OS is not the be-all and end-all of compressors, but it is as venerable as the Dynacomp and Ross, if a little different-sounding. Its chief virtue is that it doesn't require any hard-to-get parts, and is easily modded to do other tricks. It can also fit in a small enclosure, possibly even a mini 1590A size, if you wanted.

Another candidate is the SSM2166-based compressor, using either Jack Orman's circuit (AMZ Q&D 2 Compressor) or another one I have. This is a studio-quality compressor, that incorporates downward expansion for dead quiet functioning when you stop picking. The chip is not cheap, but for what it delivers, remarkably cost-effective. Small Bear still carries them ( IC SSM2166 - SBE Reissue ). You're welcome to try mine to help you decide.

Then there's Merlin Blencowe's "Engineer's Thumb". I was never able to get mine to work, but didn't really put in enough time troubleshooting it. So that's more a reflection on my build than the circuit itself. However many others have been quite satisfied with their builds, and it can have lots of fancy features that pit it against much higher-priced units. The Valve Wizard

Other choices as well, but I figured I'd pitch these 3 to you.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

mhammer said:


> I was never able to get mine to work


No output or were you having issues with the OTA? They self-oscillate easily. A blurb in this manual that may help.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

No sound. I can probably figure it out. It was built during a period when a lot of other circuits were grabbing my attention, so it's likely something dumb like a solder bridge, a cold joint, or something installed backwards. I have a surfeit of compressors, so it never constituted enough of an emergency to sit down with for however long it would take to suss out.


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