# Pine Amp



## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

Have an opportunity to pick up a Pine Amp. Apparently these were made in Canada by a company called Pepco. This particular one is just a head.

Anyone have any more info, or perhaps even own one?

Cheers


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

It's like what I tel my wife. 

"No, I don't need another amp"
"Yes, I would like to give it a try for a few weeks to see if it's what I really want"
Yes, if it's now right, I'll sell it."

If you have the scratch, buy it , play it, love it or sell it again.

Win win in my world.

How long has it been available?
Maybe talk them down a bit, get a bargain.


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## jcayer (Mar 25, 2007)

Google is your friend: http://pepcotubeamps.blogspot.ca/


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Some more info here

http://www.guitarscanada.com/showthread.php?41056-Pine-Electronics&highlight=pepco


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Pine amp?


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## jcayer (Mar 25, 2007)

I love it Milkman :food-smiley-004:


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Just make sure that you have a tech check it, lots of them were 'death cap' models that can be made safer.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

One of the things to keep in mind about older tube amps, whether Canadian or other, is that a great many relied on the same basic design structure. Differences between them often reflected:
a) sketchier speaker choices,
b) less ambitious power supplies
c) less scrupulously planned speaker cabs
d) fewer features

So, take one or two 12AX7s, a pair of 6V6 or EL84/6BQ5 power tubes, a 5Y3 rectifier with caps as low as feasible, a no-name 10 or 12" speaker, a shallow open-back cab, a volume and tone control with a tremolo speed pot that clicked "off" at the slowest speed, throw in 3 input jacks, and you have any of a zillion department-store amplifiers from that period.

Put the same amp in a better cab with a better speaker, turn the "tone" control into a proper treble/middle/bass stack, and make the power supply a little stiffer, and you have as decent an amp as many of the name brands of the period.

Whether the purchase price of the also-ran (like a Pine/Pepco), coupled with the rebuild/conversion costs, is justifiable in your eyes is up to you. Sometimes it isn't, sometimes it's a no-brainer, and sometimes it's a judgment call.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

rcacs said:


> Have an opportunity to pick up a Pine Amp. Apparently these were made in Canada by a company called Pepco. This particular one is just a head.
> 
> Anyone have any more info, or perhaps even own one?
> 
> Cheers


I've got one I picked up in a "take it all or nothing" deal that I ended up restoring. Bass amp, single 15" marsland speaker and 5 watts. They are the bottom end of the scale for sure, nothing like the quality that went into Canadian built amps from Traynor & Garnet. Don't pay a lot for it. Fun little kick-around amps though. When I get a chance I'm going to update mine to a fender circuit. The tremelo on mine is so harsh I almost get sea-sick when I turn it on.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

keto said:


> Just make sure that you have a tech check it, lots of them were 'death cap' models that can be made safer.


VERY WISE ADVICE !!!

You might need/want to add a small isolation transformer...depending on what your tech advises 

Cheers

Dave


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

I have a little 8" Pepco amp. These things can have their own mojo that is different from standard "good quality" brands. If you aren't paying much for it then get it for something to play and learn from.


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

Well I went ahead and bought the Pine amp, I will post a pic or two of it shortly. 

Cheers


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

Heres the pics, its a model 210, not sure how many watts it is.

http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/rcacs/library/Pine amp


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

Tell us what tubes are used and we can give you a close guess on the output power.

Wild Bill/Busen Amps


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

rcacs said:


> Heres the pics, its a model 210, not sure how many watts it is.
> 
> http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/rcacs/library/Pine%20amp


I've never seen a Pepco with reverb before. That's pretty cool.


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

Lincoln said:


> I've never seen a Pepco with reverb before. That's pretty cool.


Reverb isnt working at the moment, I will take a look and see what the prob is. 

cheers


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## Percy (Feb 18, 2013)

looks like a nice amp...


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

I have to pick up some sort of cab for it, don't presently have one. Any suggestions?....I think its a 6 watt according to the place I got it, but have yet to confirm.

cheers


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Consider seeing if you can get a deal on a 1 x12" or 1 x 10" through your local Kijiji.

You can always try various speakers whenever you want a change.

Cheers

Dave


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

rcacs said:


> Reverb isnt working at the moment, I will take a look and see what the prob is.
> 
> cheers


It's one of the better pepco amps with a power transformer, that's a big plus. The cheapo pepco's ran off straight 120 volt and used radio tubes. 

Here's a picture of mine, after first, then before.

View attachment 2755


View attachment 2756

View attachment 2757

You can see it looks a lot like your amp. The tolex was a plastic "snake skin" and the grill cloth was window screen with spatter paint on it.


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

Went ahead and bought a brand-spankin Laney cab, 100W 8ohm with 2 x 12" Celestion Rocket 50 speakers. Sounds very sweet. Also note I just got the new Ditto Looper, a very sweet lil piece of kit that works fantastic!

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x438/rcacs/Pine amp/laney_zps297bbcd6.jpg

The next step is to fix the reverb. I may consider selling my VOX Valvetronix 80+ if this thing works out nicely.

cheers

rick in mb


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

WOW...great looking rig! Congrats! 

I once had a small Canadian made amp head similar to this one.

I'll bet yours sounds great cranked!

Cheers

Dave


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

rcacs said:


> Went ahead and bought a brand-spankin Laney cab, 100W 8ohm with 2 x 12" Celestion Rocket 50 speakers. Sounds very sweet. Also note I just got the new Ditto Looper, a very sweet lil piece of kit that works fantastic!
> 
> http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x438/rcacs/Pine%20amp/laney_zps297bbcd6.jpg
> 
> ...


Check how much it is. I have a Peavey Vintage 410 (1973) the verb doesnt work, (or maybe it does & I just cant get it to work!)
Quoted at $100+to fix (no promises it would work) & bought a Boss FDR-1, for $60 instead. Works great!

Sending you a pm RE: fixing Reverb. Hope this helps.


Great looking cab BTW!!!!!


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

Thanks for the PM, I do all my own repairs, so any costs will only be any associated parts. :wave:

Cheers!





bzrkrage said:


> Check how much it is. I have a Peavey Vintage 410 (1973) the verb doesnt work, (or maybe it does & I just cant get it to work!)
> Quoted at $100+to fix (no promises it would work) & bought a Boss FDR-1, for $60 instead. Works great!
> 
> Sending you a pm RE: fixing Reverb. Hope this helps.
> ...


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

12AX7
6AV6 X 2
12AU7A
6V6
5Y3GT

Cheers!




Wild Bill said:


> Tell us what tubes are used and we can give you a close guess on the output power.
> 
> Wild Bill/Busen Amps


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

Bit of an update. I replace both the input and output cables on the reverb tank (one is an RCA end and the other a 1/4" jack) but still no reverb. When I turn the reverb on, it does affect volume slightly and it seems to actually change tone slightly when turning the knob. I am wondering if the tank was replaced at one time and is maybe not correct?....

The quest continues....

cheers


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

rcacs said:


> 12A7
> 6AV6 X 2
> 12AU7A
> 6V6
> ...


a single 6V6 gives you approx. 5 watts RMS


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

More update. I am 99.99% this is not the correct tank, it is stamped made in Japan and has A9 stamped inside. It has been mounted to the top of the amp box, hanging incorrectly as it should be mounted with the small transducer coils at the top and the springs hanging as I show it in the attached pics. When I wiggle the tank or tap the springs, it does indeed make a "snare drum" kind of sound thru the amp. 

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x438/rcacs/Pine amp/tank002_zps63a0af71.jpg

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x438/rcacs/Pine amp/tank001_zps50c4aa1c.jpg

More info to follow!

cheers


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

Thanks, the place I bought it figured was 6, so thats pretty close....

cheers



Lincoln said:


> a single 6V6 gives you approx. 5 watts RMS


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

That head is pretty neat looking. I am interested in what you find out about the reverb circuit.


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

So its been awhile, thought I would post an update and ask a few questions. After doing nothing with the non-functioning reverb I dropped it off at the local amp repair guy. Just to review; the reverb didnt work when I bought the amp. The tank was not connected and it certainly would appear to be a replacement (it seems too physically large and there is no brand name/model # etc). I replaced both cables on it and when you turn the reverb on, the guitar volume decreases slightly and there is some humming. I again removed the tank, and thats how it sat for a few months prior to taking it to the repair guy. He reinstalled it, checked the tubes and declared it is working. I can hear zero diff when its turned on other than the decrease in volume and the hum. 
So, is it possible that this tank is too large?..i.e., not the correct electrical requirements?. I know these are loaded questions, but looking for some direction before I return it to the amp guy. I am quite familiar with electronics and willing to test things out myself, I just don't know anything about tube amps and specifically the reverb circuits.

http://s1181.photobucket.com/user/rcacs/library/Pine amp

Cheers!


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

Reverbs tend to add hum especially when they are turned up. Its hard to tell whats going on through the Internet without seeing the amp as there are no schematics kicking around for this amp. Does it verb at all or does it just add hum and noise reduction. Is it really just one 6V6? That seems totally different for its time. You rarely see a 5 watt head from the old days, but then I am young!


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

I checked the impedence on the tank, it shows only about 1.6 ohms on the input and about 890 ohms on the output. I cant find a single new tank that even comes close to that, the closest being an Accutronics 10/2575ohms model. Again though, I feel as is this is not the original tank, but currently have no idea what tank should be in it. I may just order up a 9" tank from Accutronics and give it a whirl. They are not expensive online so it wont be a huge hit. Open to suggestions.....


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

I would imagine you are only measuring the dc resistance of the coil windings and not the impedance at audio frequencies? Do you have any buddys that play guitar that would let you try their reverb tank to see if its working? Probably won't have to remove it from their amp or anything.


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

I prob could find someone, prob is that this one has the wires soldered on to the tank connections and the other ends are a 1/4" jack and an RCA plug. I could whip up some cords, but I'm in no rush and should have the new tank at the end of the week. This is the one I ordered: 

http://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/P-RMOD-8EB2C1B

It cost me 23.45 with shipping. Funny thing, the local shop had the EXACT piece in stock and wanted 60 bones!!

If it doesnt work, no sweat.

Cheers!


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

rcacs said:


> I prob could find someone, prob is that this one has the wires soldered on to the tank connections and the other ends are a 1/4" jack and an RCA plug. I could whip up some cords, but I'm in no rush and should have the new tank at the end of the week. This is the one I ordered:
> 
> http://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/P-RMOD-8EB2C1B
> 
> ...


Rcacs, please take note of what dcole said. You CANNOT measure impedance with a multimeter! Impedance is an AC voltage thing. It requires special test equipment. As he told you, you only measured the DC resistance of the windings inside the tank.

It's the same with speakers. You can't measure the impedance.

Normally, the DC resistance of a winding will always be lower than the AC impedance value. The windings are done with thin wire, like with guitar pickups. So that 1.6/890 ohm reading likely IS 10/2575 ohms impedance!

Wild Bill/Busen Amps


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

The chart with impedances shows approximate DC resistances on this page: http://www.amplifiedparts.com/tech_corner/spring_reverb_tanks_explained_and_compared
It looks like you have around 8ohm input impedance and 10Kohm output impedance from the resistances you measured.
The tank in the amp looks to be very poor quality, the transducers are mounted directly to the outer tank. Normally there is a spring mounted inner pan that the transducers and delay springs mount to.
There is also a reverb transformer so the low impedance input tank is probably correct, but the output impedance is higher than what is normally seen in tube type reverb circuits.
Typical Fender vintage tank would probably be used in this circuit, so an 8AB type would probably be more likely than an 8EB type. The high impedance input of the 8EB or 8FB are usually used with capacitor coupled input circuits, not transformer driven types.
The closest thing I can see in a short tank would be 8AB2A1B. 
With the MOD tanks, you don't have to worry about the ground scheme, as you can easily reconfigure to whatever is needed via jumpers.


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

Thanks for all the info guys. I am awaiting the arrival of the MOD tank and will take it from there and post my findings.

Cheers!


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

Houston, we have lift-off. Installed the new MOD tank and by golly it works. Works very nicely actually. Again, thanks for all for your input.

Cheers!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Congrats...Well done!!


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## rcacs (May 4, 2011)

Bit of an update on the Pine reverb. As stated back in August, the new tank was working fantastic. I use the amp now and again, but rarely used the reverb. Today I finally wanted to use a bit of reverb and dang it all, it doesnt work again. I slid the tank out and with the reverb turned on you get that echoey (is that even a word?) sound when tapping on the springs, and the sound changes as you turn the reverb knob up and down. Possibly a tube issue?. 
The tubes are:

1 - 12ax7
2 - 6av6
1 - 12au7a
1 - 6v6
1 5y3gt

Not sure if that is of any valuable info or not. I dont want to really spend very much coin on the old girl and it still works great as an amp. The Tremolo works fine, but I really never use that either.

Cheers!

Rick in Morden


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Have you tried it with the footswitch? From what I recall, the FS jack for the reverb is a switching jack and the switch closes when nothing is plugged in. If the switch part of the jack gets dirty/oxidized the reverb won't work without the footswitch.


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

mhammer said:


> One of the things to keep in mind about older tube amps, whether Canadian or other, is that a great many relied on the same basic design structure. Differences between them often reflected:
> a) sketchier speaker choices,
> b) less ambitious power supplies
> c) less scrupulously planned speaker cabs
> ...


don't forget E) build the biggest box you can around the crappiest speakers you can buy because KIDS are impressed by those big English amps 

fortunately amps with shitty power supplies are still the best sounding amps of all time, and when you buy a shitty amp you get a shitty power supply for free 

p


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