# Who here plays 12 string acoustic?



## Daniel Grenier (Jun 24, 2008)

I do.

My awesome Martin 12 string is, by far, my favorite instrument. But here is my take on the 12 string guitar:
If you only play covers and if it's only tuned standard, then you will get really bored, really fast.

Mine is always in some form of alt tuning and I never play covers (well, true unless I am asked to accompany someone or when I was in a band). I only go for improvisation & original material. Allows for so much more creativity, interest, discovery and rewarding experiences with the shimmering sound of the 12 string.

So what do you do with your 12 string guitar? Cheers!


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

I have a few 12s that I picked up over the years. They don't get much play time since to many projects in the last few years...

I mostly have fun playing mellow tunes on them , some Pink Floyd is amazing on a 12.

VA-912

VS-696-12

Hummm…. I don't have any pics on my Vantage 12 acoustic... Its not the same quality as your Martin, but it does the job very well ...


----------



## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I have a Larrivee L-42 12 string. It's gets a lot of play. I play covers and original material. I keep it in standard tuning. I especially like it for open mics. It gives you a different sound from the rest of the performers.


----------



## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I play a lot of 12 string, both covers and original music. A 12 string Takamine is what I pick up first. Straight strumming gets boring, I do a lot of picking and hybrid picking. Haven't explored alternate tunings yet, unless you count a capo.

What sort of alternate tunings are you using @Daniel Grenier ? 

A friend's wife's 12 string I used to work on (she has since passed away) was always in some crazy tuning, even the paired strings would be different, but I never had an opportunity to sit down with her where she could explain it to me.


----------



## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

My S&P Songsmith Burst 12 has seen a lot of action this year, due to using it on the Toronto production of Fun Home.


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

I have my Seagull 12 string tuned down 1 step and use it to play "Wish You Were Here" and "As Tears Go By". Hopefully, that will change this coming "dirty word" when I have more time. Playing the 12 string really does help to strengthen my chording hand.
Here's Guitar World's Top 30 12 String guitar tunes of all time.


----------



## Daniel Grenier (Jun 24, 2008)

Lincoln said:


> I play a lot of 12 string, both covers and original music. A 12 string Takamine is what I pick up first. Straight strumming gets boring, I do a lot of picking and hybrid picking. Haven't explored alternate tunings yet, unless you count a capo.
> 
> What sort of alternate tunings are you using @Daniel Grenier ?
> 
> A friend's wife's 12 string I used to work on (she has since passed away) was always in some crazy tuning, even the paired strings would be different, but I never had an opportunity to sit down with her where she could explain it to me.


Right now it's in DADGAD. I also use Open G, Open D, Open C, CGDGGD, CGDGCD (aka Orkney), EADGAE, Drop D, Double Drop D and sometimes any of these down a 1/2 or full step. But I have never tried different tuning on the paired strings. Maybe next time. I also use a capo extensively which gives tunes a whole different feeling. Some just don't work on fret 1 but capo it to fret 3 or 4 and there it is. All good fun.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

The one on the right, a '96 Beneteau 12 string, 12 fret. 

I had a cheap Fender 12 in my late teens and early 20s that had pretty good playability but dubious tone. I searched for years for one I liked but most were either too bass boomy, too treble strident, too physically huge, or too fncking expensive. Eventually I got this one built for me and it's been great, lovely balance on the knee (being a 12 fret makes it a wee shorter and ebony machine head buttons are lighter than metal ones), being tight wasted it sits a little lower on the lap than a jumbo, and I believe the bridge being closer to the wider part of the top enhances the tone (as subjective as that can be). The picture makes it look less worn than it is, but it's still in good shape. 

I use it for the typical 12 string songs but I also use it any other time just for fun. Great for celtic stuff too. Sometimes I retune to open G, but usually it's in standard. No action issues.


----------



## Daniel Grenier (Jun 24, 2008)

Guitar101 said:


> I have my Seagull 12 string tuned down 1 step and use it to play "Wish You Were Here" and "As Tears Go By". Hopefully, that will change this coming "dirty word" when I have more time. Playing the 12 string really does help to strengthen my chording hand.
> Here's Guitar World's Top 30 12 String guitar tunes of all time.
> 
> View attachment 218792


Good list. I played many of these on the 12 string when I was in a band but if I had to play Wish you were here, or Free falling or that Stairway thing one more time I might consider giving up guitar.


----------



## Daniel Grenier (Jun 24, 2008)

Mooh said:


> View attachment 218806
> 
> 
> The one on the right, a '96 Beneteau 12 string, 12 fret.
> ...


Wow! Is that 3 Beneteaus I am seeing here? That is a serious trio of guitar you have here, my friend. Impressive!

I don’t think I have ever seen a 12 fret 12 string. That is rather unusual but I am sure it sounds awesome like all Beneteaus. I personally find 12 fret somewhat awkward to get used to. I have one and it sure feels like a different beast after playing a 14 fret. What I would like, personally, is a Baritone 12string. I like the deep low growl of B or C on the 12.

Anyway, thanks for posting those awesome guitars.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Daniel Grenier said:


> Wow! Is that 3 Beneteaus I am seeing here? That is a serious trio of guitar you have here, my friend. Impressive!
> 
> I don’t think I have ever seen a 12 fret 12 string. That is rather unusual but I am sure it sounds awesome like all Beneteaus. I personally find 12 fret somewhat awkward to get used to. I have one and it sure feels like a different beast after playing a 14 fret. What I would like, personally, is a Baritone 12string. I like the deep low growl of B or C on the 12.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for posting those awesome guitars.


My pleasure. But sorry, I'm too lazy to edit the photo to just the subject matter. Or conversely, I'm an arrogant braggart. The jury's still out. ;-)

I bought those in the '90s when I was making double what I do now and Beneteau's prices were half what they are now. I had another, bought from a member here, that's since been sold to one of my most promising students. It's great to hear it played regularly. Anyway, It's doubtful that I'll ever afford guitars like these again so it's a good thing I've already got them.

Yeah, a baritone 12 would be cool. There are a few builders around who would make you one, I'm sure. I usually recommend Beneteau and Joshua House, but there are lots of others...it's kind of the golden age of luthiery right now.


----------



## oheare (Jun 18, 2012)

Mooh said:


> My pleasure. But sorry, I'm too lazy to edit the photo to just the subject matter. Or conversely, I'm an arrogant braggart. The jury's still out. ;-)
> 
> I bought those in the '90s when I was making double what I do now and Beneteau's prices were half what they are now. I had another, bought from a member here, that's since been sold to one of my most promising students. It's great to hear it played regularly. Anyway, It's doubtful that I'll ever afford guitars like these again so it's a good thing I've already got them.
> 
> Yeah, a baritone 12 would be cool. There are a few builders around who would make you one, I'm sure. I usually recommend Beneteau and Joshua House, but there are lots of others...it's kind of the golden age of luthiery right now.


As a very happy owner of a Beneteau, they're worth bragging on. Back when I was making more and they cost less, I'd decided I wanted a 12-fret 12-string from Marc; then the bottom fell out of the tech world.... And a baritone from Marc would be magical, the rich basses from his regular guitars just make me tingle. Maybe one day.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I have had a few 12 strings over the years. Here is my current one which I posted a short time ago. It's a Lowden design made by Yairi in Japan. It is 1980's vintage.

Just ordered one of these arm rests for it.

Figured Solid Redwood Guitar Arm Rest for 39-41" Acoustic Guitar Red | eBay


----------



## brucew (Dec 30, 2017)

When young had an ovation 12. Say what you want about ovations, that thing almost played itself and sounded great.

Now have a yamaha fg72012s that plays really nice. A little tinny(I guess, "bright" is the proper term?) to my ear but plays nice and lives in open g. Also have the solid h.mah. tanglewood I keep spouting off about. 

Honestly if my fingerpicking was good enough I wouldn't own a 6.


----------



## Daniel Grenier (Jun 24, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> I have had a few 12 strings over the years. Here is my current one which I posted a short time ago. It's a Lowden design made by Yairi in Japan. It is 1980's vintage.
> 
> Just ordered one of these arm rests for it.
> 
> Figured Solid Redwood Guitar Arm Rest for 39-41" Acoustic Guitar Red | eBay


Lowden designed and Yairi made is like saying Pininfarina designed Ferrari. That’s a real beauty. I bet she sounds rich, deep and loud.

Let us know how this armrest thing works for you. I’ve kind of been curious and dubious about these.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

oheare said:


> As a very happy owner of a Beneteau, they're worth bragging on. Back when I was making more and they cost less, I'd decided I wanted a 12-fret 12-string from Marc; then the bottom fell out of the tech world.... And a baritone from Marc would be magical, the rich basses from his regular guitars just make me tingle. Maybe one day.


The guitar on the left in the picture I posted earlier is an early baritone from Beneteau (1998). I don't know how many baritones he'd built previous to mine, at least one as Don Ross was ahead of me in line, but mine was briefly featured in a flier. 27" scale length, so perhaps a little short for the purpose. I originally got it to get me half way to the bass register without giving up clear ringing chords in a celtic group. Since the demise of that group I've been keeping it tuned at either C# or D standard.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Daniel Grenier said:


> Lowden designed and Yairi made is like saying Pininfarina designed Ferrari. That’s a real beauty. I bet she sounds rich, deep and loud.
> 
> *Let us know how this armrest thing works for you*. I’ve kind of been curious and dubious about these.


I have one on my Alvarez MD60 and there is a significant difference in volume and sustain. To check how it would sound on your guitars, strum with your arm as it normally would sit on the front and then strum without your arm resting on the soundboard. That will be the difference with the armrest.


----------



## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I've always loved the sound of the 12 string & a number of years ago saved up some money & bought an S&P cedar top one.
The top is scratched up a bit due to the softness of the cedar & I put a crack in it with my elbow--but it doesn't seem to affect the sound & the crack hasn't grown

But it plays real well & I love the sound...


----------



## Daniel Grenier (Jun 24, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> I have one on my Alvarez MD60 and there is a significant difference in volume and sustain. To check how it would sound on your guitars, strum with your arm as it normally would sit on the front and then strum without your arm resting on the soundboard. That will be the difference with the armrest.


I know what you mean with the arm-on-the-top thing as I use that “trick” a fair bit to alter the sound but is this armrest gizmo supposed to actually give your arm a “rest”?


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Daniel Grenier said:


> I know what you mean with the arm-on-the-top thing as I use that “trick” a fair bit to alter the sound but_* is this armrest gizmo supposed to actually give your arm a “rest”?*_


No, just the sound board. There are some on the market with a little more of a rounded edge but the ones I've used are pretty much like the guitar's edge. I guess they could be sanded a bit to make it a bit more comfortable.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Been playing my Seagull Maritime 12 String for a few days now. My electrics are torn apart for some electric work so I'm taking advantage of it. I've tuned 1/2 step down to Eb, and I'm liking the slinky feel and lushness of tone of it. I do like to play more up tempo songs...even if they aren't up tempo, and the Eb tuning gives me more flexibility with certain techniques. Haven't got into too many alternate tunings. It really is a fun guitar to play and gives your hand a great workout. I'm relatively new to 12 string so I play any standard 6 string song along with a couple of 12ers like Wish you were here, Comfortably numb, Over the hills and far away, and Gallows Pole. Sounds great with Can't Find my Way Home and a number of others as well. Should've got one a long time ago.


----------



## Chuck007 (Mar 9, 2021)

Daniel Grenier said:


> I do.
> 
> My awesome Martin 12 string is, by far, my favorite instrument. But here is my take on the 12 string guitar:
> If you only play covers and if it's only tuned standard, then you will get really bored, really fast.
> ...


To lovingly quote Ronald Reagan, 
"Well..."
Until 2018 I owned a 1978 Alvarez Artist 12-string. This guitar had originally come to me in 1981 and I nursed it through a few major repairs including reattaching a broken headstock. The weird thing about this guitar was that the original slot for the bridge saddle was made out of aluminum. This unfortunately inhibited efficient transfer of sound from the string to the sound chamber, which in turn produced a muted, almost ethereal tone... in other words, barely audible.
I had it refurbished in 1997, replacing the tuners with Grover Minis (gold) as well as replacing the entire bridge. When I got it back, about a month later, the guitar was 20 times louder, and the tone was immeasurably richer.
In addition, since 1983 I have been playing this guitar with an experimental tuning which required replacing the lighter octave strings with heavier gauges, allowing for a perfect 5th interval on strings 3 through 6. 
I did try to make it work in a standard tuning
(EADGBE) but soon discovered that any "EMaj" shape chord produced dissonant 7ths.
This was solved by switching to open tunings with the 3rd always on string set (SS) one or two: both sets are unison (u), which eliminates the problem. The tuning example below is for open D and starts on SS 6. The primary notes are capitalized, the secondaries in lower case:

D a
A e
D a
A e 
D (u)
F# (u)

Hopefully you can already see the possibilities here. This tuning lens itself well enough for strumming, but the true beauty of it is in finger-picking. Tips for finger-picking a 12-string: 
Do not use finger picks; the sound will be brittle. A little practice will develop the technique of plucking string sets at the same time, as well as learning how to create complex chromatics and harmonics with doubled 5ths and 9ths. After a while, you will find it incredibly easy to create the most beautiful things with two fingers on the fretboard.
A gentler touch is required here. The percussive finger-picking of Bluegrass or Blues will make this tuning sound muddy. Just like your favorite cat, if you use your fingers gently the instrument will purr for you.
Lastly, it is extremely important to remember that these heavier gauge secondary strings will put an extra strain on the neck of your guitar. Loosen the tuning from time to time to allow the neck to relax a bit. About once a month, inspect the back of the instruments neck, keeping a sharp eye out for minor cracks. My Alvarez lost its headstock once and took nearly two years to repair, mostly due to the fact that the luthier had to re-bond the wood on a near-molecular level. He did a good job... The guitar lasted another 15 years before the headstock came off again.

Anyhow, and to sum up, I happen to start working with this tuning simply because I asked myself a question: just because they're called octave strings, do they necessarily have to be tuned to octaves? Be fearless in your experiments. Don't be afraid to try anything new and of course always hit 'record'


----------



## Kelownaguitarlessons (Sep 22, 2020)

I have my old Yamaha 12 set up as a ”Nashville tuning” or high-strung guitar. It is an interesting thing


----------



## OldGuitarPlayer (Feb 25, 2013)

I had a cheap Applause (Ovation copy) 12 string 6-7 years ago. I kept it tuned down a half or full step to D. The novelty wore off after a few months so it got sold.


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Recently purchased a 78 Takamine F400s which is a Martin D28 copy right down to the headstock script


----------



## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I have a Simon and Patrick 12 string. I love the jangle and overtones of a 12 string. I play solo, some would wish so low they couldn't hear it, but it adds to the fullness of sound.


----------



## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

zontar said:


> I've always loved the sound of the 12 string & a number of years ago saved up some money & bought an S&P cedar top one.
> The top is scratched up a bit due to the softness of the cedar & I put a crack in it with my elbow--but it doesn't seem to affect the sound & the crack hasn't grown
> 
> But it plays real well & I love the sound...


I own this exact 12 string, and I love it! 
I bought it new in the late 90's, and recently had a Fishman installed. It is possibly my most comfortable guitar to play. I can strum it as a rhythm instrument all night if I have to.


----------



## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I've owned several acoustic 12 strings. I currently have a Godin A12 that is for sale. It is a thin line acoustic. It is a wonderful guitar. Easy to play. It was my #1 before COVID. I used it live at least once a week. It fills out the mix and the neck was great for playing lead when called for. I'm selling it to finance another guitar but when we can play live again I'll be looking for another 12 string.


----------



## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

A friend loaned me his old Stella 12 string for a couple weeks.
That was way back in the 90's, yet I still have a vivid memory of the guitar.

I guess by todays standards, it was not a great player, super high action, needed work, I guess.

Essentially, the tone was so big and ballsy, you either worked within it's limitations, were inspired and came to the same conclusions as Leadbelly did. You embraced the potentials and worked around/avoided the shortcomings.

A perfect experience in appreciating how the sonic strengths and weaknesses of some instruments influenced the music of the artists we associate them with.


----------



## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

In the mid 70's somewhere, I had a 12 string Raven acoustic. The first acoustic I ever owned.
Looking back, it was probably a copy of a Martin D28-12, but it sure didn't play like a Martin. Nut was about 2", Action was 3/8", it was a real workout for the fingers.
That guitar would make a man out of you.

I don't have it anymore. I left it in Denver in 1998 while I was down there romancing an American woman. Thought I'd be back, ended up shopping local instead.


----------



## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

SWLABR said:


> I own this exact 12 string, and I love it!
> I bought it new in the late 90's, and recently had a Fishman installed. It is possibly my most comfortable guitar to play. I can strum it as a rhythm instrument all night if I have to.


Thanks,
I use a Dean Markley contact mic/pickup on it--if I need to.
I do like it and play it, though when I hurt my right shoulder a few years ago, the only way I could play it was to stand and hold it at an angle away from my body.
Otherwise I couldn't get my right arm where it needed to be.
Fortunately that didn't last too long.
But I have decided not to buy any dreads, jumbos or larger guitars--in case I ever hurt it again.

But then acoustic wise I'd be more likely to buy a concert sized or something like that.


----------



## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Ah ! T'was a dream !
Feared stringing/tuning to be a nightmare...
But, as I do not strum...


----------

