# This seems fishy to me.



## droptop88 (Aug 25, 2006)

I've got a vehicle for sale - received an offer, I counter offered, and here's the reply I got:

*Thanks, i am a business man who buy vehicle,s here in Canada and U.S.A and send them oversea's for sale. Does the vehicle have any transmission or engine problem? If the engine and transmission is fine then we can get started. 

I would love to come take a look at it and test drive it but i am very busy this period as some of my vehicle's will be leaving for oversea's soon, so we are busy preparing them for shipment. But what i will like to do at this time is: 

I want to send you my company's cheque for the payment of the vehicle. After cashing the cheque, you will notify me, before i will come pick-up the vehicle. If this is ok by you please let me know so that we can get started immediately. If you are fine with this method then provide me with: 

(1) The name you want the cheque to be on. 
(2) The address you want me to send it to (not a P.O Box address because UPS or FEDEX does not deliver to P.O Box address). 

If you can provide me with these details, the cheque will be send out to you immediately, then after it clears, i will come pick up the vehicle. I await your reply, thanks and have a nice day. *

Thought I'd share this with you guys. This isn't as blatant as most of these out there, and the English seems not too bad.


Any comments/thoughts would be appreciated....


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...here's the message i often send in reply:

"did you know that the word 'gullible' is not in any dictionary? don't take my word for it - go look it up!"

-dh


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

I'm trying to find the scam here.......at the end - he'll know your name and address and that there will presumably be a vehicle in the driveway that's for sale.......

as far as name and address - the phonebook is full of those

if he wants to steal the vehicle once he has your address - well - I'm thinking there's easier ways to steal vehicles


he's sending you a cheque......

he's not asking you for a cheque.


so it does sound fishy - but the content of a scam here eludes me

I have a cold though - so maybe my stuffed up head isn't thinking straight.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

droptop88 said:


> I've got a vehicle for sale - received an offer, I counter offered, and here's the reply I got:
> 
> *Thanks, i am a business man who buy vehicle,s here in Canada and U.S.A and send them oversea's for sale. Does the vehicle have any transmission or engine problem? If the engine and transmission is fine then we can get started.
> 
> ...


Yes when I was selling a used car a while ago I got a similar email response. I'm just wondering what the scam is though. He sends you cheque, it succesfully clears and then he comes to pickup the car.
The email I got I was also suspicious and I ignored it choosing rather to sell the car in a more traditional way, where someone comes, test drives, then gives me cash. But I just wonder what the scam angle would be here.


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2009)

Never take a cheque. If he can send a cheque he can send a Canada Post Money Order.

Banks will often release funds to you before a cheque clears. Especially if you have enough coverage in your account (so they can claw back the funds if the cheque does eventually bounce) or overdraft protection (hey, they make interest if you do bounce a cheque...nice).

Cash is it when it comes to private sales IMO.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Never take a cheque. If he can send a cheque he can send a Canada Post Money Order.
> 
> Banks will often release funds to you before a cheque clears. Especially if you have enough coverage in your account (so they can claw back the funds if the cheque does eventually bounce) or overdraft protection (hey, they make interest if you do bounce a cheque...nice).
> 
> Cash is it when it comes to private sales IMO.


Yes I understand the risk of cheques. But in this case I'd not be releasing the car until the band informed me that the cheque cleared (not just that I had the funds to cover it) which could take up to 10 days. I would inform the buyer of that. So then I don't see what the scam is.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

iaresee said:


> Never take a cheque. If he can send a cheque he can send a Canada Post Money Order.


Don't Canada Post Money Orders have a limit of $500.00 or $1000.00 ...IIRC

I'm with iaresee...cash is king

To the OP...I wouldn't respond to this guy...period.

Dave


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## droptop88 (Aug 25, 2006)

So then a Bank Draft? Isn't that pretty much written in stone? I'm suspicious of a "company" cheque.

Strikes me as odd that he's not asking for more info, specifically the VIN. He could run this and get a pretty good idea whether there was money owing, accident history, # of owners - seems to me that would be a minimum request, were he truly interested in the car. Didn't request any other pics of the car either.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> Yes I understand the risk of cheques. But in this case I'd not be releasing the car until the band informed me that the cheque cleared (not just that I had the funds to cover it) which could take up to 10 days. I would inform the buyer of that. So then I don't see what the scam is.


The cheque will appear to clear. You will release the car. Weeks or even months later the bank will inform you that the cheque was actually a forgery and they're taking the money back. You will be left with no car and no payment for it.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

If you go for it, go into the bank with the check, tell them to certify the check and only release the funds once they are certain. Then release the car.

Me, I'd wait of the next buyer.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Unless you are selling a collector car for next to nothing, I dont know anyone who buys a vehicle sight unseen. Esp b/c they're "too busy". Thats enough for me to think theres some kind of scam there....but you're right, its hard to see what it is. Only thing that c0omes to mind is counterfeit checks.


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## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

kat_ said:


> The cheque will appear to clear. You will release the car. Weeks or even months later the bank will inform you that the cheque was actually a forgery and they're taking the money back. You will be left with no car and no payment for it.


Yep. That's likely the game.


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## ashm70 (Apr 2, 2009)

The cheque is forged and it wil take time for the bank to realize this. They will then come after YOU for the outstanding money. 

This scam is VERY common...

Cash is king. Would you buy a car sight unseen? If it sounds too good to be true, then it usually is.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

I'd agree - definitely don't to the transaction with this guy.....

but I'm still perplexed on the scam.........

the car is sight unseen - what's he gonna do with a used car ...resell it?.....sell it to a scrap yard? - chop it?.....he'd have to be doing some serious volume to acquire cars to chop in this manner....it'd be easier to just steal the cars



the scam still eludes me


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

This smells three ways from Sunday. Ask for the guy's business name, address and phone number and, if he gives it to you, check with the BBB, Police, Google, etc.


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## twoonie2 (Jan 19, 2008)

SCAM guaranteed! - i've had similar messages sent to me when selling and even buying online..


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Haha... I just got this one...quite a bit more obvious though:

From: "Mr Peter Wong" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:30
To: "unlisted-recipients:"; "no To-header on input"
Subject: Please Write Back ASAP..!!!

> 
> Good day, 
> 
> My name is Mr.Peter T.S Wong I am the director of operation in Hang Seng 
> Bank Hong Kong.I have an obscured business suggestion for you in the tune of 
> One Hundred & Twenty Five Million, Seven Hundred & FiftyThousand U.S Dollars 
> (125,750,000.00 USD). Please, if you know you are capable of involving in 
> this mouth watering transaction, please send me an email to my Private email 
> below , so that I will give you more details about this transaction and how 
> we will successfully carry out this transaction without any risk involved. 
> 
> (1)Full names, (2)Private Phone number, (3)Current residential address, 
> (4)Occupation, (5)Age and Profession. 
> 
> Mr. Peter T S Wong
> Email- [email protected] 


Geez, even if I KNEW it was legit, I dont think I'd be comfortable in handling over $125M USD! Good to know he trusts me with it


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Diablo said:


> Good to know he trusts me with it


Diablo......Mr. Peter T.S. Wong only sends these to people he knows he can trust.

Congratulations.

Dave


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

lbrown1 said:


> I'd agree - definitely don't to the transaction with this guy.....
> 
> but I'm still perplexed on the scam.........
> 
> ...


Usually they'll end up sending a forged cheque for more than the selling price of the car then ask for the surplus to be sent back. The item for sale is irrelevant then.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

A scam is a scam is a scam.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

On second read, this could be the beginning of an identity theft scam too.
matt


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

ashm70 said:


> The cheque is forged and it wil take time for the bank to realize this. They will then come after YOU for the outstanding money.
> 
> This scam is VERY common...
> 
> Cash is king. Would you buy a car sight unseen? If it sounds too good to be true, then it usually is.



If the bank confirms there is sufficient funds from the source and clears the cheque which usually takes up to 10 business days, I fail to see how they could come after you weeks or months later. Just the same a certified cheque would be safer. But in these times of transferring money electronically I'd think any cheque would be too much effort for a legitimate buyer. Cheques are pretty much obsolete. 
I remember in the old days when I was just starting out on my own. It would be a day or 2 before pay day and I'd be out of groceries. I could write a cheque on groceries and it wouldn't make it to the bank until I had been paid and made sure the funds were there. Can't do that anymore.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> If the bank confirms there is sufficient funds from the source and clears the cheque which usually takes up to 10 business days, I fail to see how they could come after you weeks or months later.


The scammers count on people assuming that. That's not the case though. This scam isn't based on a cheque bouncing. It's based on the cheque being forged in the first place. The forged cheque will "clear" but then once it's discovered to be a forgery the bank will take back the money.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

It's a car - we can't sell cars that way here anyway. It needs to be registered into the buyers name - fit or unfit. As a rule for your own protection, don't ever release a vehicle that is still registered in your own name, even if you signed the transfer portion of the ownership - until it is registered to the new owner you are liable ....

Besides, He'll contact you in a few days and tell you that the deal is off an can you please send him a cheque........


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2009)

That you're even asking us if it sounds fishy is reason enough to stay away. It's a private sale. You're not obligated to sell it to anyone. You can scuttle a deal for any reason at all. Heck, he could show up wearing a green shirt -- and maybe you hate green shirts -- and you can say, "No". No explanation required. Just "no".


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## droptop88 (Aug 25, 2006)

Well, it would look a little stupid if I used the thank you button for everyone, but....

_*Thank you!*_

Seriously, I learn something on here every single day. Great place to be.


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## SUBnet192 (Mar 8, 2009)

There was a report on CBC not long about about something like this... Where people got ripped off cashing checks that were found not good months or weeks after actually clearing it.

I make it a point to avoid anything complicated. You want it? Come and get it with cash or a money order that we deposit together at my bank.

Marc


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## BoogaBooga (Mar 1, 2009)

As a lot of you said, when you deposit the check, it will mopst likely clear. When the bank tries to transfer the money, (days or weeks after) they'll find out that the chequing account does not exist. The bank will take their money back. 

The thing here is that the guy will get the car for free. It doesn't really matter wether the bank or the seller loses money, they got a free car. 

My friend got a very similar email and he received the check. When he went to the bank, he asked them to verify the check and they instantly told him it was fake. But I wouldn't be surprised if some actually get through untill its too late..


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

I agree with the advice given so far - run away.

However, I'm still confused with how the bank will clear the cheque and then discover that the cheque is a fraud. Maybe its my misunderstanding of what it means when a cheque is cleared by the bank. Doesn't that mean that they've verified that the funds are available in the cheque writers account, and that they are now transferred to the cheque receivers account?


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

My response would be 


*(1) The name you want the cheque to be on.
(2) The address you want me to send it to (not a P.O Box address because UPS or FEDEX does not deliver to P.O Box address).
*

Steven Harper
24 Sussex Dr 
Ottawa On..

( there is NO postal code) 

Your moving a vehicle out of the country and your not asking Vin# info ..... 

Cheque scam for sure 

or they are coming to steal it and put it on that container that is leaving soon.... na easier to steal cars from Vancouver.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

bagpipe said:


> I agree with the advice given so far - run away.
> 
> However, I'm still confused with how the bank will clear the cheque and then discover that the cheque is a fraud. Maybe its my misunderstanding of what it means when a cheque is cleared by the bank. Doesn't that mean that they've verified that the funds are available in the cheque writers account, and that they are now transferred to the cheque receivers account?


I'm with you on that one....I thought "cleared" was "cleared" - i.e. the cheque is real - and represents an existing bank account that has the funds.....if I'm incorrect in that - then I can see the scam.....but to get a car?....what's the dude gonna do with a used car?..scammers don't want cars - they want cash....so he'd have to find some way to fence the car.....maybe theirs a whole racket out there for stolen used cars....I still contend it'd be a lot easier to just steal the car...BUT the previous is true - the "deal is off send me back a cheque" notion makes sense.

fascinating stuff


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2009)

bagpipe said:


> However, I'm still confused with how the bank will clear the cheque and then discover that the cheque is a fraud. Maybe its my misunderstanding of what it means when a cheque is cleared by the bank. Doesn't that mean that they've verified that the funds are available in the cheque writers account, and that they are now transferred to the cheque receivers account?


My bank will clear a cheque for me as long as I have enough funds in reserve to cover it should it turn out later not to be a valid cheque. I'm sure I could ask them not to do this, but they expedite the process for me for convenience. They'll clear partial amounts as well depending on the state of the account.

In short: cleared != certified.

Check with your specific institution for their exact policies.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...um...its a scam. anyone who falls for it deserves what happens to them.

-dh


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## Guest (May 5, 2009)

david henman said:


> ...um...its a scam. anyone who falls for it deserves what happens to them.


Ouch! That's unduly harsh. Some of this stuff can get convincing and tough, even for old hats, to sort out. Never hurts to ask around and do some research. But "deserves what happens to them" -- I don't think anyone _deserves_ to be ripped off. It's _unfortunate_, but not _deserved_.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...um...its a scam. anyone who falls for it deserves what happens to them.
> 
> -dh





iaresee said:


> Ouch! That's unduly harsh. Some of this stuff can get convincing and tough, even for old hats, to sort out. Never hurts to ask around and do some research. But "deserves what happens to them" -- I don't think anyone _deserves_ to be ripped off. It's _unfortunate_, but not _deserved_.


Agreed. Might be obvious to you - obviously not to others.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Ouch! That's unduly harsh. Some of this stuff can get convincing and tough, even for old hats, to sort out. Never hurts to ask around and do some research. But "deserves what happens to them" -- I don't think anyone _deserves_ to be ripped off. It's _unfortunate_, but not _deserved_.


I guess he's ok with people being victimized by a crime as long as its not by a gun.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> I guess he's ok with people being victimized by a crime as long as its not by a gun.


Now, was there any need for that?hwopv


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Now, was there any need for that?hwopv


Nah I guess you're right. No more need than wishing crime on people.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

I think it's great that people here post about things like this and the other scams we all see from day to day. It certainly adds to a sense of community. Not everyone is hip to these assholes and their tricks. As far as I'm concerned keep letting others know of these criminals and their methods.

Shawn


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

bagpipe said:


> Agreed. Might be obvious to you - obviously not to others.


...sorry if that came off as harsh but, seriously, this scam could not be more obvious.

-dh


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...sorry if that came off as harsh but, seriously, this scam could not be more obvious.
> 
> -dh


Yes but in your harshness and lack of compassion you cast off those lacking in perspicacity. There are many in society that are easy prey and really these types of criminals are only interested in taking advantage of these types of people. 
Since you seem to deem your self as impervious to such scams due to your heightened intellectuality I guess its easy for you sit back and say others deserve to get taken.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

I'll throw in my two cents. 

This is a common scam. The item for sale is irrelevant. It will never be picked up. A cheque will arrive for a higher amount than originally agreed. When it's pointed out to the purchaser they will want the cheque cashed and the excess sent back to them. This will be "easier" than getting a new cheque cut and delivered.

A forged cheque can be written on a genuine account, that's part of the fun of identity theft. The cash is actually there and the cheque clears but the rightful owner of the account will eventually catch it, at which point the money will be retrieved and the original depositor of the forged cheque will be left holding the bag.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Yes but in your harshness and lack of compassion you cast off those lacking in perspicacity. There are many in society that are easy prey and really these types of criminals are only interested in taking advantage of these types of people.
> Since you seem to deem your self as impervious to such scams due to your heightened intellectuality I guess its easy for you sit back and say others deserve to get taken.


...a well-rendered riposte. your munificent concession of my acuity is profoundly esteemed. however, i am obliged to clarify that my "heightened intellectuality", of which i am, for the most part, bereft, has nothing whatsoever to do with it. the unburnished verity of it is, my mommy warned me not to talk to strangers.

:wave:


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

david henman said:


> .. the unburnished verity of it is, my mommy warned me not to talk to strangers.
> 
> :wave:



Then what are you doing on the Internet?hwopv


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

The elocution attestable in this thread fairly rises over the substance and invidious loquacity of this disputation. Splendiferously consummated gentlemen.

Shawn :wave:


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

hmmmmn.........yes, what he said.........methinks


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

Rugburn said:


> The elocution attestable in this thread fairly rises over the substance and invidious loquacity of this disputation. Splendiferously consummated gentlemen.
> 
> Shawn :wave:


In the illustrious words of the immortal Slip Mahoney: "Indubiously!"

:food-smiley-004:


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

What's fun to do is accept one of those "I need someone to hold my millions" emails, reply with fake info, and then you keep asking them for info and giving them the same runaround they give you. I've seen the results, worth a chuckle lol


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

For those that havent heard of it, the Powerbook scam is worth a good read when you get some spare time.
http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/index.html


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

While I agree that in this case the email was likely part of a scam, I have a distant relative that does in fact buy vehicles - often sight unseen - and ships them overseas. Sometimes they are ambulances, School buses, Mazda Miatas, whatever orders come in, he cruises CL and other FS arenas and finds what he needs. Makes quite a bit of money - not Donald Trump money but he is living comfortably.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Then what are you doing on the Internet?hwopv


...talkin' to strangers.

my daddy told me to never listen to my mommy.


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