# solo improvation



## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

OK as far as I am concerned this is what makes or breaks good players. Standing there and coming up with something on the spot working with your knowledge. What works for you good players ? Ya I want to pick your brain if you want to give it up. Anyone


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

I think it just comes down to how well you know your scales... and of course, the more learn from others the more you can take from them and apply it in your own way. I imagine it takes some sitting down and noodling to find what works for you and what doesn't.

personally, I'm still working on learning to improvise, but my scale knowledge is fairly weak.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

> What works for you good players


who said good?.... I started using some box patterns.. and messing/noodling with them. Over and over and over..... my current thing I am learning says " play this till your fingers bleed " .. 

Look at some the early lessons. It explains the scale but also gives some examples of use of those scales 
It starts about page 37 
http://www.box.com/shared/eynecoynh7hgc7vn9qfi


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

Improvisation, interesting word. It's not something you get from a book and it's not something someone can teach you, it's something that you feel for a particular piece of music while you are playing it. A good music teacher can teach you all the scales there are, major, minor, pentatonic etc. they can teach you to copy Stevie Ray Vaughn or B B King but that is just copying, once you learn a song what you do with it after, is where you learn to improvise on your own and in your own way. Improvisation is the musician telling his story of that song as he sees it. I don't know anyone who can teach you how to feel about a song.


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## jeremy_green (Nov 10, 2010)

If I were to start honestly step one is to learn as many different versions of your chords as you can. All these different voicings across the neck give you access to different colours. 

For this arpeggios are the next step. With arpeggios you can make beautiful melodies out of any chord. 
Then slowly begin adding in scale colours to it. 

This would be the most musical process for learning this type of thing. Most cats go straight for scales and start smashing away at them... not really a great approach. Of course you do need to know your scales eventually. But arpeggios can carry you a LONG LONG WAY.

During all this, regularly learning famous solos that you like. USING YOUR EARS MOSTLY. Tabs as little as possible. This should be a regular part of the process.
Same with writing - write your own songs, riffs, etudes, solos. Record yourself a LOT.

Don't get sidetracked in the speed trap - cranking up and down scales with a metronome. This is non-musical wankery and an extremely bad habit. Play music all the time. Start simple, think melody and as you improve the complexity and speed will move along in step.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> who said good?.... I started using some box patterns.. and messing/noodling with them. Over and over and over..... my current thing I am learning says " play this till your fingers bleed " ..
> 
> Look at some the early lessons. It explains the scale but also gives some examples of use of those scales
> It starts about page 37
> http://www.box.com/shared/eynecoynh7hgc7vn9qfi


Thanks shoretyus... the link was helpful and very interesting overall.

I'm going to try working on pages 37 & 38...although I might stop just before the bleeding starts.

Much appreciated.

Cheers

Dave


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

> I'm going to try working on pages 37 & 38...although I might stop just before the bleeding starts.


I have been working hard on them. I also am trying to play All Star Strut. I can play through it. Not knowing the song I thought I would do a Youtube search on Friday night...

Crap ..even at 85% speed ... frustrating... good thing is that that same search came up with Cissy Strut which I learned. By the way that is also the basis of that Brett Mason David Grissom jam NAMM video posted today .. so it's not all bad 

[video=youtube;pyR4K8SHr1U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyR4K8SHr1U[/video]


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

jeremy_green said:


> If I were to start honestly step one is to learn as many different versions of your chords as you can. All these different voicings across the neck give you access to different colours.
> 
> For this arpeggios are the next step. With arpeggios you can make beautiful melodies out of any chord.
> Then slowly begin adding in scale colours to it.
> ...


Jeremy: 

Thank you immensely for your post. After goofing around for almost 10 years (and taking a couple of very condensed lessons in the meantime) I finally decided to get serious about getting better. I am taking lessons from a fellow who teaches at a local college and what you have said above is his approach - spot on. It's extremely frustrating at the moment because I'm starting basically from scratch and I really needed the affirmation that what I'm going through will eventually pay off if I stick with it. Thanks again.

Marvin


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## cwittler (May 17, 2011)

After you are done with Charlie Christain, pay some attention to John McLaughlin and Vinnie Moore. They each have a great way of simplifying complex things in plain language. I find the more confusing someone is, the less they probably understand themselves.

Also, a really great record for me, if you can find it, was the Steve Khan and Larry Coryell - Two For The Road record made around '77. On this record, you can plainly hear the two guitar players having a conversation - one leading the other away from the melody structure into the improvisation, and the other then bringing them back to the melody. It is a great academic example, if not a great listen. 

Maybe you will find this useful as well... http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/ms-primer-4-1.html

Also, be sure to read this... http://books.google.ca/books?id=plWljsvsk6QC&pg


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

I hear ya on the arpeggios. In my trombone book they show them before scales. I did dig some out.


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## jeremy_green (Nov 10, 2010)

Swervin55 said:


> Jeremy:
> 
> Thank you immensely for your post. After goofing around for almost 10 years (and taking a couple of very condensed lessons in the meantime) I finally decided to get serious about getting better. I am taking lessons from a fellow who teaches at a local college and what you have said above is his approach - spot on. It's extremely frustrating at the moment because I'm starting basically from scratch and I really needed the affirmation that what I'm going through will eventually pay off if I stick with it. Thanks again.
> 
> Marvin


My pleasure Marvin! This is the stuff that comes with complete clarity after you have played as long as I have. Your teacher likely realized the same stuff... A lot of youngins have it very backwards what they think will improve them. Like dexterity = musicality or something. If you keep the focus on making music at all times, you will never go wrong. Trash the stupid 1-2-3-4's and other non-musical ideas like running up and down a scale in 2nds. 

Intervals, dynamics, patterns, trills, slides, bends, rhythmic variation, passing tones, chord tones, this is the stuff!

You got any questions hit me up. 
Be happy to help you out along the way.


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

cwittler said:


> Also, a really great record for me, if you can find it, was the Steve Khan and Larry Coryell - Two For The Road record made around '77. On this record, you can plainly hear the two guitar players having a conversation - one leading the other away from the melody structure into the improvisation, and the other then bringing them back to the melody. It is a great academic example, if not a great listen.



LARRY CORYELL currently has Jazz guitar lessons on DVD, if you are interested send me a PM. I am not going to shill for the company that he has his DVD's with but I will tell anyone who is interested privately. I don't like online sales by music distribution companies any more than most of you do, but Larry is really quite good.


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