# Basic board setup



## metallica86 (Aug 17, 2009)

Hey guys,
Maybe it's been discussed in the past but I can't find it.
I was out of band and didn't play much since last 3-4 years. 
Recently wanna to join my neighbor and some friends for some jam and having fun.
I have my Tonemaster DR which I love, for clean tone.
Looking to build a very basic pedal board, lightweight and most important: don't want to break the bank lol.
I already have a tuner, and a Wah. What should I have next?
We played all kind of stuff from 70s to 90s, no heavy metal, the most heavy song we play is Enter sandman lol.
Thanks in advance.
Cheers.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Maybe a delay. Your amp has reverb. Some sort of dirt pedal depending on what you're playing and you're good to go.

You've already got the most important element - the Wah pedal!

Depending on your style, you may need one of these


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I would think that your "board" should have a combo switching unit that allows you to select/deselect reverb and tremolo in the amp, and also which channel you plan on sending your effected signal to. I realize the amp probably came with a reverb/tremolo footswitch, but the space they take up can be compressed, so as to free up space for other things. That's three footswitches in a single box: rev, trem, A/B.

Is there a "mandatory" order on a pedalboard? Not really, but some recommendations are pretty standard. For instance, anything that depends on signal dynamics to do its thing (compressor, autowah, etc.) should be placed as early in the chain as possible, where signal dynamics are at maximum.

One should try to not exaggerate hiss and noise by placing hiss-producing devices before something with lots of gain.

Pedals that provide "ambience" (delays, reverb, etc.) are really duplicating what, historically, would have been a post-production effect. That is, band comes in, lays down tracks, marches out, and the producer sweetens the recording in the mix by adding reverb. So, things that provide ambience are often best placed at the end.

It's not for everyone, but personally, I would never be without a compressor. One of my principle reasons is that it prevents me from inadvertently sticking out when I shouldn't be. It *can* suck tone if misused, but doesn't have to. But if one has not played with other folks A LOT, and your touch is easily disrupted by momentary distractions, compressors can be a life-saver.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Keeley caverns and a decent drive pedal (should be doable for $120 or less) and you're off.


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## Peel Ferrari (Jun 22, 2017)

Sounds like OD and possibly a level boost for solos. EQs work well for that. Although some drive pedals have a boost. Id say a 2-1 is a good, logical choice. I also like delay for solos.


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## Peel Ferrari (Jun 22, 2017)

I think it also depends are you looking to satisfy the song, and your own playing mostly? Sounds dumb but the average person in the audience wont hear the nuances of pedals the way we do. They dont really care.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Get a ProCo RAT.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Peel Ferrari said:


> I think it also depends are you looking to satisfy the song, and your own playing mostly? *Sounds dumb but the average person in the audience wont hear the nuances of pedals the way we do*. They dont really care.



Not sure why this always comes up in the context of gear conversations, tube vs solid state, etc. But when it comes to gear choices I give potential audiences zero consideration. I don't think "what would my future audiences prefer when I choose a guitar, amp or pedal". Especially in the context of the OP who has expressed that this is for a jam for fun.


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## Peel Ferrari (Jun 22, 2017)

guitarman2 said:


> Not sure why this always comes up in the context of gear conversations, tube vs solid state, etc. But when it comes to gear choices I give potential audiences zero consideration. I don't think "what would my future audiences prefer when I choose a guitar, amp or pedal". Especially in the context of the OP who has expressed that this is for a jam for fun.


I didnt see the jam part.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Is four pedals too much?

I'd want an overdrive, distortion, modulator (of some sort) and a delay.

If you choose a modulation pedal that can do several (chorus, Univibe / rotary effect, flange, phase shifter) you can cover a lot of ground.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Zoom MS70 CDR and a decent OD pedal.


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## Peel Ferrari (Jun 22, 2017)

Milkman said:


> Is four pedals too much?
> 
> I'd want an overdrive, distortion, modulator (of some sort) and a delay.
> 
> If you choose a modulation pedal that can do several (chorus, Univibe / rotary effect, flange, phase shifter) you can cover a lot of ground.


I got the Wampler Terraform and it has all those. Worth checking out.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Peel Ferrari said:


> I got the Wampler Terraform and it has all those. Worth checking out.



I'll wager it does a great job, but remember from the OP:

"most important: don't want to break the bank lol."

There are pedals on Amazon for under $70.









SONICAKE Modulation Pedal Modulation Guitar Pedal Phaser Flanger Chorus Tremolo Vibrato Autowah Guitar Effects Pedal 5th Dimension 11 Modes : Amazon.ca: Musical Instruments, Stage & Studio


SONICAKE Modulation Pedal Modulation Guitar Pedal Phaser Flanger Chorus Tremolo Vibrato Autowah Guitar Effects Pedal 5th Dimension 11 Modes : Amazon.ca: Musical Instruments, Stage & Studio



www.amazon.ca


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## Peel Ferrari (Jun 22, 2017)

Milkman said:


> I'll wager it does a great job, but remember from the OP:
> 
> "most important: don't want to break the bank lol."
> 
> ...


maybe but its all relative in the grand scheme of things


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Peel Ferrari said:


> maybe but its all relative in the grand scheme of things



No doubt the wampler sounds better, but if all the pedals on a board are $300....


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## Peel Ferrari (Jun 22, 2017)

Milkman said:


> No doubt the wampler sounds better, but if all the pedals on a board are $300....


he said he "didnt want to break the bank" - can mean anything, right? Depends on what you consider that means. Anyway have a nice day.


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## metallica86 (Aug 17, 2009)

Hey hey thank you all! Didn't want to break the bank: I mean no boutique pedal for ridiculous money! I think my best OD/Distortition I'ver used is Barber Gain changer, such a great pedal and versatile.
Thanks for all the inputs, I was thinking setup like this: Compressor-Od- Dist- Modulation effect ( i don't need much, maybe a phaser?) and Delay.
I think delay is the most expensive here...


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

metallica86 said:


> : Compressor-Od- Dist- Modulation effect ( i don't need much, maybe a phaser?) and Delay.
> I think delay is the most expensive here...


The Zoom MS70 CDR will give you everything except the drives. You might need a compressor if you want to run it at the front of the chain, with modulation at the back. You'll also get chorus, flange, EQ, and a tuner.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

My jam board. Two stages of drive - noise gate - chorus - delay x2 - reverb. The OD-2 it set for edge of break up, the SD-1 set up for heavier lead tones, the CF-7 is actually a chorus/flanger combo but I never use the flanger and only use the chorus for some clean tones. The two DD-3's are set with one doing a very short delay and the other doing a longer slap back repeat. The reverb pedal is a cheapy off Amazon but it's amazingly versatile.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

davetcan said:


> The Zoom MS70 CDR will give you everything except the drives. You might need a compressor if you want to run it at the front of the chain, with modulation at the back. You'll also get chorus, flange, EQ, and a tuner.


You can add overdrives from the MS50 to this pedal


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/zoommultistomp/comments/cqhlqd


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

BlueRocker said:


> You can add overdrives from the MS50 to this pedal
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/zoommultistomp/comments/cqhlqd


Or just buy an MS50 too


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Y'know what we never asked? Are you going to be the rhythm player, the lead guy, or trade solos with someone else?


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## metallica86 (Aug 17, 2009)

mhammer said:


> Y'know what we never asked? Are you going to be the rhythm player, the lead guy, or trade solos with someone else?


Haha, amazing question and sometime I forgot about it. Thanks for bringing it up.
We are 4 guys, jam together. I play both rhythm and solos for few songs, other guitar player sing, so yes, we do trade the solos. Actually other guitar player is my neighbor, great great musician. We prefer solos in the end of each songs and try to improvise. 
I went to L&M today ( rabbit hole again) and the Helix FX caught my eye, its does almost everything or even more than I need. Maybe it's cheaper than buy separate pedal and deal with all the cable and power them up, put on a board etc..

Again, we jam for pure fun, my open mic, playing in a bar was long gone, having kids make its impossible.
The dangerous about L&M is now I can't get that new shiny Gibson Deluxe 70s out of my head. This is the perfect neck for my playing, not thick like 50s but not thin like the 60s standard..








Gibson - Les Paul Deluxe 70s - Goldtop


Gibson - Les Paul Deluxe 70s - Goldtop




www.long-mcquade.com


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It seems your "break the bank" has a little higher cutoff point than my criteria. 

The Helix and a number of other multi-FX allow for a compact (if occasionally pricey) all-in-one solution. Sometimes such units capture the number and sequencing of effects one wants, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they capture the desired version/quality of each type of effect, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes the interface that allows one to access and adjust the onboard effects is a very quick learn, and sometimes it isn't.

I have a Line 6 M5. It is a "multi-FX" insomuch as it has 120+ onboard effects and variations, but only one is available at a time. Handy for someone who is interested in experimenting with different FX but can't see springing for a ring modulator, octave-divider, complex pattern tremolo, or autowah, that they don't expect to use all that often, if only for one riff. The M9 offers the same selection of effects, plus a looper, in a larger package that permits up to 3 simultaneous effects, in any order. Both have saveable presets.

As people get more and more finicky, penultimate-generation multi-fx are often available for VERY reasonable cost. I regularly see various floor versions of the Line 6 Pod going for very reasonable prices.


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

metallica86 said:


> Hey hey thank you all! Didn't want to break the bank: I mean no boutique pedal for ridiculous money! I think my best OD/Distortition I'ver used is Barber Gain changer, such a great pedal and versatile.
> Thanks for all the inputs, I was thinking setup like this: Compressor-Od- Dist- Modulation effect ( i don't need much, maybe a phaser?) and Delay.
> I think delay is the most expensive here...


Compressor: skip it, don't need it
OD: Fulldrive 2 $100
Dist: Rat $150
Modulation: phase 90 $120
Delay: DD200 $250

So that's a pretty conservative, budget friendly board for $620...and you still need to power it somehow. 

Food for thought...the HX Stomp is available for ~$600 used, comes with power and gives you much more flexibility. It also gives you a headphone practice option and USB interface for recording or jamming along with your computer...


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## Jeff MacKillican (Jan 23, 2021)

Generally good idea to put fuzz pedals and wahs first, then overdrives, then time effects like delay or reverb. Looper comes last obviously. After much experimenting i run 2 TC mojomojo pedals side by side, one as a pretty clean boost, other for more gain & volume. Have tried pedals 3 times as expensive, love this one. I also would never be without my Carbon copy delay. Last gen mojo pedal is discontinued and can be found on clearance, grab one of you can!


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## Jeff MacKillican (Jan 23, 2021)

I recently bought a donner pedalboard for peanuts on amazon, no complaints. Have been using one of their power supplies for 2 yrs, works great. Don’t need to spend a fortune.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

TimH said:


> Compressor: skip it, don't need it
> OD: Fulldrive 2 $100
> Dist: Rat $150
> Modulation: phase 90 $120
> ...


RATs are $95. That's also a lot of money to be throwing down for a delay in my opinion. A used Boss delay of your choosing can usually be had in the $150 range.


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

Okay Player said:


> RATs are $95. That's also a lot of money to be throwing down for a delay in my opinion. A used Boss delay of your choosing can usually be had in the $150 range.


OP said he figured the delay would be the most expensive. I might be wrong but I assumed that means he's looking at something with presets. If not that's cool. Still... $450 + power vs $600 for HX Stomp...If you can afford it that's a much more robust option and any cork sniffer arguments about digital vs analog are out the window when comparing it to $100 pedals.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

TimH said:


> OP said he figured the delay would be the most expensive. I might be wrong but I assumed that means he's looking at something with presets. If not that's cool. Still... $450 + power vs $600 for HX Stomp...If you can afford it that's a much more robust option and any cork sniffer arguments about digital vs analog are out the window when comparing it to $100 pedals.


When he mentioned the delay being the most expensive I assumed he was just pointing out that modulation pedals tend to be more expensive than drive pedals at the entry level. Make no mistake, if someone wants an HX Stomp it doesn't make a lick of difference to me I just found your prices to be inflated. I have my own reasons for not being a big fan of multi effects, but I wouldn't pretend for a second that any of them are good reasons.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Depending on what one needs from delay, they can be done and purchased very cheaply. The Princeton Technologies PT2399 chip can be bought for well under 50 cents (I've paid 29 [email protected]) and does almost everything my vintage blue rack MXR Digital Delay does in the way of delay time and resolution. Turning them into $29 basic delays that give you 350msec of quite respectable delay time is easy. Not a Memory Man, and no presets or modulation, but if all you need is some slapback or an echo or three, they'll do you just fine.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Jeff MacKillican said:


> I recently bought a donner pedalboard for peanuts on amazon, no complaints. Have been using one of their power supplies for 2 yrs, works great. Don’t need to spend a fortune.


That's pretty much what I was suggesting.

I also put together a few Donners and similar and yeah, they sound fine. No, they're not up to the $300~??? boutique pedal level, but well that's another topic.


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## metallica86 (Aug 17, 2009)

Jeff MacKillican said:


> I recently bought a donner pedalboard for peanuts on amazon, no complaints. Have been using one of their power supplies for 2 yrs, works great. Don’t need to spend a fortune.


Do you mind sharing the link for which pedalboard and power you got? thanks!


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## Jeff MacKillican (Jan 23, 2021)

metallica86 said:


> Do you mind sharing the link for which pedalboard and power you got? thanks!


Power supply is Iso8plus, with 8 discreet outputs. Can't remember which Donner board, think it was the middle size with the decent bag. Was on sale on Amazon, cost me about 72 bucks. Used my own velcro from home depot, better quality.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

If you're looking at a used Helix product then I'd say you're on the right track as long as your budget will allow it. You'd have a small footprint and a lightweight unit with all the effects you're ever likely to need for a jam session and then some and they sound WAY better now than digital multi-units sounded back when they first started coming out. HX Stomp or HX Stomp XL would be a unit you'd not likely outgrow for a long time. Or if you wanted to go cheaper you could look at the Pod Go.


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## metallica86 (Aug 17, 2009)

Just want to update the thread. Got myself an used Helix Stomp with great price, mess around with it this week. So far I like their amp tone, and modulation, reverb is excellent. However I don’t like any their dirt model into my Tonemaster DR. Delay is a bit weak, I always like a Carbon copy so might get that.
I rent couple pedal from L&M, so far I really like The Dude (dumble od), I’m looking for some distortion versatile pedal ( not the Rat).


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Note that the Line 6 standard for expression pedals is simply a variable 0-10k resistance to ground from the jack tip.


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## metallica86 (Aug 17, 2009)

Thanks!
Also anyone can recommend a "Marshall in a box" kinda pedal? Mostly for Slash GNR and ACDC kinda gain....
I got my Modulation covered by the stomp, just need one or two dirt pedal to mess around with.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

metallica86 said:


> Just want to update the thread. Got myself an used Helix Stomp with great price, mess around with it this week. So far I like their amp tone, and modulation, reverb is excellent. However I don’t like any their dirt model into my Tonemaster DR. Delay is a bit weak, I always like a Carbon copy so might get that.
> I rent couple pedal from L&M, so far I really like The Dude (dumble od), I’m looking for some distortion versatile pedal ( not the Rat).


What don't you like about the distortion types in the helix?

If you're using your amp for cleans, use the amp block in the helix for your dirt (it's a free experiment).


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## metallica86 (Aug 17, 2009)

I tried couple dirt from the Stomp: Apparent and Sovereign, and Compulsive drive mostly into TMDR, all sound very strange and kinda digital. I rented the Fender MGT Tube Distortion from L&M and plugged straight in, its just sound much warmer and more natural distortion? Sound is subjective and English is not my 1st language so it's kinda hard to explain the "feel" of the dirt from Stomp.
Also big other reason I want to have separate dirt pedal so in the jamming situation, I can tweak it on the fly instead going through all the menus and page from the Stomp.
Cheers!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Taking into account that dirt is likely THE most subjective kind of effect, since it depends so much on the touch of an individual player, their strings and pickups, I think digital does everything else well but currently falls just a hair or two short of great when it comes to dirt. And again, because dirt is subjective, others will likely disagree with me. As well, I own a few older digital dirt pedals, but don't go around trying out every new digital pedal that provides dirt, so I may have some catching up to do, and need revise my views.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I'll just add that distortion is THE most computationally demanding effect of all that are applied to musical instruments. It is likely the case that the hardware is now up to the task in terms of speed. The truly hard part is translating what we hear and like about the sound and responsiveness of dirt pedals into algorithms; in other words describing what a dirt pedal does, depending on string thickness, number of strings picked, pick attack, where on the fretboard, finger vibrato, etc. It's like trying to get someone else to paint a landscape exactly as you see it, via voice instructions over the phone. Ultimately, I suppose it could be done, but it's all in the quality and detail of the description. Most other effects are tantamount to getting someone to paint an accurate picture of an IKEA kitchen chair over the phone.


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