# I'll trade my 486 computer for your Axe FX Ultra/Standard. LOL, AXE FXII announced.



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Let the great gear dump begin. The AxeFX II was announced today and the standard and Ultra are discountinued. Already seeing people trying to dump their old units before the word gets out.

Should be interesting to see if all the users who claimed their AxeFX sounded exactly like a tube amp now claim that the IIs are way better _and sounds exactly like a tube amp_. 

TG


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Haha, yeah, the grass is always greener when you have the latest tech.

I haven't tried an Axe FX personally, but all the clips I've heard are super-impressive. It'll be interesting to see whether there's a night-and-day differences, or if it's just splitting hairs.

fwiw - Back in the early-to-mid 90's I had a 486 DX4-100 computer with an 8MB Voodoo Labs cards, 1Gb Hard-drive and 16 (or maybe 32MB) of RAM. It was the fastest 486 I ever saw! It also cost me as much as a brand new Axe FX unit would today


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

Wanna buy my Ultra? largetongue

Axe-II is not just about 'more tone'. I sure don't expect some night and day sonic improvement. It's more about keeping ahead of the pack as the best modeller you can buy, and adding all the obvious missing features and downsides of the original. USB, headphone out, more user cab slots, hardware knobs for tweaking. 2x TigerSHARCs and twice the RAM means more room for future growth.

I've been all-Axe, live and studio, for some time. Happy as can be, but I still want Axe-II!


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

See: the thread below this one lol


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

There is a complete Frenzy on TGP. Kijjiji and Craig's list have tons of Axe I's for sale. It is kind of funny actually.

TGP simply lacks the ability to discuss the Axe in any rational, sane, way. You simply are "not allowed" to say anything bad about it. It will be interesting to see guys who swore it was equal to "real tube amps" grapple with the FX II (and claim that the II is now is equal to real amps but also better than VI). LOL

TG


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## Guest (May 10, 2011)

Wait. I missed the part where my Standard started sounding bad because the Axe-Fx II got announced. When did that happen?

Look, this isn't a computer like your 486. It doesn't do general processing. Much like older Eventide gear still demands a premium because it still sounds as good as it did when it was invented, so to do the Standard and Ultra.

I'm not seeing "dumping" prices and quite honestly: availability
on the the II at this point remains to be seen so don't dump unless you can go without for a while.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Look, this isn't a computer like your 486.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Wait. I missed the part where my Standard started sounding bad because the Axe-Fx II got announced. When did that happen?


I didn't say the V1 started sounding bad. I said if somebody claimed the V1 sounded _exactly_ like a tube amp, _how_ can the FXII said to be improved in terms of sounding more like a tube amp?



> Look, this isn't a computer like your 486. It doesn't do general processing. Much like older Eventide gear still demands a premium because it still sounds as good as it did when it was invented, so to do the Standard and Ultra


If you look at past modelling gear, the price of older tech tanks when new generation stuff is introduced. In 20 years, maybe people will clamour for older tech, but that isn't what is happening now. The older Eventide stuff isn't sought after because it more closely approximates (or models) something better than current tech; the standard of measurment is different for modellers in comprison to effects.



> I'm not seeing "dumping" prices and quite honestly: availability
> on the the II at this point remains to be seen so don't dump unless you can go without for a while.


Guys are trying to beat the market awarness of the FXII's existence and are still trying to get a premium price. But look at the sheer number that came for sale _today_ or in the past few days. What happens to price when things are widely available and demand is low? Used Standard/Ultras _were_ basically selling for the new price; this won't happen anymore.

You may dig the Ultra, it may be perfect for you, and it may sound awesome. That is totally cool and I never implied otherwise. However, the used value of that unit is nothing like it was; this devaluation is moot, of course, if you don't sell it and keep on loving your tone.

TG


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## Guest (May 10, 2011)

traynor_garnet said:


> I didn't say the V1 started sounding bad. I said if somebody claimed the V1 sounded _exactly_ like a tube amp, _how_ can the FXII said to be improved in terms of sounding more like a tube amp?


Certainly I never made that kind of claim -- but I did say it sounded superb. And it still does. As for the Standard/AxeFx II comparison -- maybe I'll get to make that in the near future. But more likely not. I can't afford to follow technology whims.



> If you look at past modelling gear, the price of older tech tanks when new generation stuff is introduced.


There's been nothing like this before, so why should it follow any historical pattern? I already gave the counter example: Eventide H3000's don't see for peanuts and those are 15 years old.



> In 20 years, maybe people will clamour for older tech, but that isn't what is happening now. The older Eventide stuff isn't sought after because it more closely approximates (or models) something better than current tech; the standard of measurment is different for modellers in comprison to effects.
> I disagree, and I suspect that's where that'll stay until we see some numbers.
> 
> 
> ...


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Yeah, there are tons up for sale on Ebay. The value has dropped considerable. A month ago, you could sell your Ultra for $2400.00. I think today you will be lucky to get $1800.00. My guess is it will average around $1600.00. 

Its not that the Axe Fx II will sound better, its the new features! The three features that I would love are there now; USB port, Dry Signal for reamping, and a headphone jack. I would upgrade for these reasons alone because they serve well for home recording. The processing power is 5 times greater so this has to improve the quality of the effects, which are already fantastic? Will it make the amps sound better? I was never one who believed the Axe ever sounded better then a tube amp. Maybe as good as a tube amp? Better then a mic'd amp, yes!

If the Axe FX II retailed for $2599.00, the Ultras and Standards would have retained value and still had a market for then Ultra. For $2199.00 (not much higher then the Ultra), he basically made the originals obsolete.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

But the II *will* sound better...

How did people sell Ultras for $2400 if the II is $2200USD and it's the latest model...?

Either way, I'm getting a II when money allows.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

iaresee said:


> Where are these numbers? I see one here. Same guy is selling it on Kijiji local to me. And then three came up for sale on the Fractal forum that I saw. That's 4. Sheer numbers? Your sense of scale is smaller than mine if that's "sheer numbers" to you.


Three of them popped up on the Toronto CL in the last 2 days. Which is 3 more then there were previously  

No, the original owners aren't rushing out to get rid of their units, but it was enough that I noticed a trend before I read this thread and found out about the new AxeFX.

Anywho, I don't really care if the II is a vast improvement sonically, or whether it's just ergonomic and hardware improvements. I still think they're cool units, but one question for you, Ian. Does the Axe FX mimic feedback at all? Will a note ringing out eventually feed back? I was always curious about this since some of the songs I play in my band feature a few held notes that are controlled into feedback. I'm interested in getting something like an Axe FX but wanted to know about the physical feel of the amp as well beyond how it sounds.


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## Guest (May 10, 2011)

hollowbody said:


> Three of them popped up on the Toronto CL in the last 2 days. Which is 3 more then there were previously


I'm not questioning a trend, but I don't see a mass exodus. Nothing I'd describe with big adjectives like "sheer".  




> Anywho, I don't really care if the II is a vast improvement sonically, or whether it's just ergonomic and hardware improvements. I still think they're cool units, but one question for you, Ian. Does the Axe FX mimic feedback at all? Will a note ringing out eventually feed back? I was always curious about this since some of the songs I play in my band feature a few held notes that are controlled into feedback. I'm interested in getting something like an Axe FX but wanted to know about the physical feel of the amp as well beyond how it sounds.


Oh yes, definitely. Controlled feedback, just like you'd do with your amp, works just the same with the AxeFx: turn up loud, touch your headstock to your cabinet, feel the power. I'm trying to think of a clip I have where there's feedback happening. Definitely Mark Day has some clips with controlled feedback through his AxeFx:

[video=youtube;LJSuT_dE5wM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJSuT_dE5wM[/video]

For all intents and purposes it plays and behaves like an amp. At least, that's how it feels to me.


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## Guest (May 10, 2011)

Sneaky said:


> I remember people telling me that about my Line 6 Flextone in the 90's when they came out with the Flextone II. Glad I didn't listen to them and ditched it early on.
> 
> 9kkhhd


I can't speak to the Line6 stuff, I've never really owned any Line6 gear. But the Axe-Fx II is an incremental improvement, sonically, on what's happening in the current Standard and Ultra. The big deal is the extra DSP, which means you can really get crazy with the blocks in a patch now. But the amp and cab block improvements are subtly better. Mind you, this is based on second hand information from the beta group reports. I won't be able to give you a hands-on report for...well...maybe another couple of weeks.  The big changes come in the form of features that are not related to the algorithms: USB (with support for a third, dry track when recording), extra knobs, headphone output, 50 user cab spots, global effects blocks settings, swapping patches, etc.



> Disclaimer: I have never tried or heard an Axe-Fx regular, ultra or otherwise, so I am not judging the amp per se. I know tons of great players who have them and love them. But I tell ya, I would be one pissed off customer if I just shelled out $2k for an Ultra last week.


Thankfully you haven't been able to buy them direct from Fractal for about a month now.  They've been "out of stock" for a while.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

iaresee said:


> Oh yes, definitely. Controlled feedback, just like you'd do with your amp, works just the same with the AxeFx: turn up loud, touch your headstock to your cabinet, feel the power. I'm trying to think of a clip I have where there's feedback happening. Definitely Mark Day has some clips with controlled feedback through his AxeFx:
> 
> For all intents and purposes it plays and behaves like an amp. At least, that's how it feels to me.


Very cool clip! That's one of the things I could never bond with when it came to things like the Tonelab, the Pod and other pedestrian modellers. It never _felt_ like I was playing an amp! If the Axe FX is capable of feedback and things like cleaning up with and twist of the volume knob and other tricks that a traditional amp does, I'm waaaaay more interested.

I haven't really looked into an Axe FX yet, and all I know about it is that they sound good. I guess I'd better get to doing some research.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

This seems pointless, as you are creating and attacknig an argument I never made.



iaresee said:


> There's been nothing like this before, so why should it follow any historical pattern? I already gave the counter example: Eventide H3000's don't see for peanuts and those are 15 years old.


There have been many cases like this before and there is a clear historial pattern. When it comes to modelling gear new generation stuff significantly lowers the price of the older hardware; look at any past modeller and show me where this hasn't happened? Why do you think the Axe will be so unique? I addressed your "counter-example" above and showed why it isn't relevant. 



> Where are these numbers? I see one here. Same guy is selling it on Kijiji local to me. And then three came up for sale on the Fractal forum that I saw. That's 4. Sheer numbers? Your sense of scale is smaller than mine if that's "sheer numbers" to you.


Read ne1roc and hollowbody's post before. Do a _wide search_ of craigslist or kijjiji and see how many are for sale. The TGP "digital gear emporium" listed SIX units for sale on the first page alone!!! 

Given the relatively low number of these that were produced, what type of volume of used units do you expect to see up for sale? Of course the number of units for sale will be low if you restrict your search locally! Also remember that the FXII was only announced yesterday! 




> Speculative. But I'm willing to suspend disagreement until actual numbers are in. Until we actually see prices drop. Because, as of yet, that hasn't happened.


This isn't speculative: the prices _have already_ dropped. Did you ever see an Ultra listed for $1600 before the FX II's announcment (check TGP, USA Kijijji)? Yes there are ads asking the same price that they were going for a month ago, but these adds are either older, pre AXE II announcement listings, or guys trying to cash in before the II is widely known to exist. Anyone who would buy a used Ultra for the same $ as a new FX II probably doesn't know the FXII exists.


Anyway, this seems pointless as you seem content to play semantics with the word "sheer" and "dump." For me, the increased number of units for sale is very large (since the announcement) and seeing an $800 drop in asking price for a used Ultra (in two days) IS very significant.

Glad to know you dig the Ultra, just don't see why you are going through this defense.

TG


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

The really exciting thing for me (in addition to the headphone jack and usb) isn't the extra processing power per se, but the great leap in resolution offered for speaker IRs: the FXII offers twice the resolution offered by the Ultra/Standard.

I think speaker IRs are the final key for modeling and would love to hear the difference this increased resolution makes in the new unit's overall sound.

TG


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Yoinks! $1500 for an Ultra loaded with Redwirz and Ownhammer IRs to boot.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=10621127#post10621127


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## Guest (May 10, 2011)

traynor_garnet said:


> Did you ever see an Ultra listed for $1600 before the FX II's announcment (check TGP, USA Kijijji)?


Sure. $1600-$1900 has been the standard range for a used Ultra on the Fractal forums depending on shipping and what not being included in the price. I'm not seeing a change in prices. The guys asking $2000+ have always had to sit on their units (unless they wanted to ship over seas).

Edit: your $1500 post is definitely a good deal.



> Anyone who would buy a used Ultra for the same $ as a new FX II probably doesn't know the FXII exists.


Or lives in Europe or Australia where the cost of an Ultra new, or an Axe-Fx II, is much, much higher for them.




> Glad to know you dig the Ultra, just don't see why you are going through this defense.


Could have sworn this was a discussion board...where...ya know..._you talk about stuff_. You posted an opinion, I posted mine, and now we talk about them.


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## Guest (May 10, 2011)

traynor_garnet said:


> The really exciting thing for me (in addition to the headphone jack and usb) isn't the extra processing power per se, but the great leap in resolution offered for speaker IRs: the FXII offers twice the resolution offered by the Ultra/Standard.
> 
> I think speaker IRs are the final key for modeling and would love to hear the difference this increased resolution makes in the new unit's overall sound.
> 
> TG


I've played with longer length IRs in Logic and honestly can't hear a difference between 1024 sample IRs and 2048 sample IRs. It wasn't until I got in to the millisecond sample range, where room effects started to get captured in the IR, that I noticed a difference. But I have heard people claim a big difference in sound. It could also have been Space Designer's convolution algorithm masking differences, since all convolutions are not created equal.


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