# Boss Waza Tube Amp Expander Review (overdue, but here it is)



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

I have been through a ridiculous amount of attenuators and taken a lot of grief here for some of my "this isn't prefect” reviews of past TGP flavour of the month darlings. For perspective, here is a list of the units I have owned:

Fryette Power Station
Bad Cat Unleash
Alex Attenuator
Aracom Pro and DAG
Ho Attenuator (Ultimate Attenuator)
THD Hotplate
Weber Mass, Mini mass, and Micro Mass
Jettenuator

Most are decent enough and the more expensive units offer better clarity at higher levels of attenuation. Overall, however, I felt none were truly great at high levels of attenuation and I always went back to my pedals and a clean amp rig for lower volume stuff. So why on earth would I go down this road yet again AND spend even more money on the Boss?


I found that with the other really good attenuators, you could really hear how much a ‘slammed speaker’ contributes to the overall sound of a cranked up amp. One of the main appeals of the Boss Waza was its ability to simultaneously use a real amp cab _and_ IRs out to monitors. I was hoping that at low volumes the cab would retain the "amp in a room" sound while the monitors/IRS would give the sound of guitar speakers getting hit hard by an amp. In other words, the Waza could blend the best of IRs and Cabs together to produce a better overall tone at low volume. I’ll get back to this in a bit J . . .


Straight up Attenuation.

I am not going to go into every feature of the TAE. There are a ton of YouTube videos and product reviews for that. Instead, let’s get right to the main question: is this a good attenuator? (and before you decry “it’s a reamper, not an attenuator” please note that ‘reampers’ do _actually_ _attenuate _your amp before amplifying the signal again; the amp is being _heavily attenuated_ and then re-amplified back to your desired listening volume.)

Is the Waza a good attenuator? YES! At least as good as the Fryette but I actually think it is better. To those who think the TAE must suck because it doesn't use a _tube_ power amp, please actually go use one before jumping to conclusions. Also, does your PA suck because it doesn’t use tubes? The power amp in a reamper is supposed to be neutral and you do not want it breaking up or colouring your signal. A well designed SS power section simply makes more sense than using tubes. 


Ultra-Low Volume Playing: Guitar Cab and IRS/Monitors

Ok, question number two is whether or not the TAE can help make up for the fact that your speakers are not getting hit hard when playing at very low levels. The answer is: YES. By simultaneously using IRS/studio monitors and your real cab you retain the sound of pushed speakers but also maintain the ‘amp in the room’ sound that I personally love (yes, I wrote ‘amp in the room’). While modellers certainly make sense for low volume playing and sound quite good, I always felt something was missing. The WAZA blends the best of IRs and real cabs together to produce a better overall tone at low volume. It really is the best solution for those who want to crank up their amp, retain their tone, and not bring down the house with volume. But wait, there is more . . .


Wet/Dry/Wet Rig

Since I am running a guitar cab and studio monitors/IR it is ridiculously easy to set up a WDW rig. I run the TAE’s stereo line outs (which first hit the IRs I have loaded) into a stereo effect unit, and then out to my studio monitors. BAM! A WDW system is up and running and it sounds freaking unbelievable. Previously, my WDW rigs involved three identical vintage heads all running to their own cabs. It did sound very nice, but it took up a ton of space, browned out the neighborhood while running, and was obviously not portable. While the TAE is expensive, I offset its cost by moving a bunch of vintage gear that was previously being used for the Wet portion of my rig. My WDW system now sounds just as good, takes up less than half the space, and is cheaper and easier to use! If you don’t want to use an external FX unit you can kill the reverb to the guitar cab and run reverb only to the line outs/monitors. I have asked Boss to offer the same dry option for the onboard delay (and other FX for that matter) but as it stands the delay and other FX cannot do this. Boss really needs to get in this as a bit more control over the onboard effects would make WDW as simple as chewing gum.


The Final Verdict

The TAE is the best unit I have owned. My current setup (a vintage amp into the boss Waza tube amp expander, into two 2 x 12 cabs, and the TAE line outs using IRS to a stereo FX unit, into studio monitors) is giving me the best tone I’ve ever had and I don’t need to have deafening volumes. I can also shut off the volume to the real cabs and just use the IR’s/studio monitors for late night very low volume stuff. But I still prefer to crank it up a bit  The TAE is a god send using my vintage non-master volume tube amps.


TG


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Really interessing!
I didn't know you could do that WDW trick with the Waza tube, this is nice!


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

For $1,600 plus tax it better be good.

Boss - WAZA Tube Amp Expander


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I hope others find your review useful.

I've ditched the tube amps and I'm exploring the digital world some more. The flexibility of my FX8 was incredibly useful for touring, and given it's December 2019, a lot of companies have upgraded their firmware for their products. Now is a good time!

When did you buy your TAE?


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

So does that put the Fryette Power Station 2 in second place?

Or is the FPS2 tied for first with the TAE for sound quality of attention and re-amping, but the FPS2 is second because of no other effects, IR, and production options?

I've been looking at the FPS2 lately. I want simple and focussed. So I think the FPS2 fits the bill, but if the FPS2 sounds notably worse than the TAE (when just considering attenuation, I'm not looking to WDW or blend IRs and attenuated, etc), I might reconsider.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

reckless toboggan said:


> So does that put the Fryette Power Station 2 in second place?
> 
> Or is the FPS2 tied for first with the TAE for sound quality of attention and re-amping, but the FPS2 is second because of no other effects, IR, and production options?
> 
> I've been looking at the FPS2 lately. I want simple and focussed. So I think the FPS2 fits the bill, but if the FPS2 sounds notably worse than the TAE (when just considering attenuation, I'm not looking to WDW or blend IRs and attenuated, etc), I might reconsider.


Both are very, very good. I think the TAE has a slight advantage as a straight up reamper and being able to tune the reactive load (resistance z and presence z) makes quite a difference to getting the best match to your head and cab. If you are playing at true band levels the FPS2 will be great. If you are doing lower volume stuff, the TAE is the answer.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Double Post. Sorry


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Triple Post??!!


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Budda said:


> When did you buy your TAE?



June 2019.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Paging @TimH


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

davetcan said:


> Paging @TimH


Yes I just picked up a TAE over the weekend and I would agree with everything posted. The TAE is an exceptional unit.

For reference I have personally own the THD Hotplate, Weber MASS and Suhr RL plus Torpedo CAB and GFI Cabzeus. I regularly play a Kemper live and have had the Helix as well. 

Now, whether I ultimately keep it or not kind of remains to be seen. The Mesa Cab Clone IR+ is a very interesting unit for my particular purposes as the re-amping function isn't as crucial to me. Buying Two CCIR+ would let me run two amp heads in Stereo through my incoming stereo 2x12 cab live and two heads into my interface in the studio and at church. My BEST tones are when a Fendery amp and a Voxy amp run together. However, the convenience of the EQ and workflow on the TAE might just win the day. 

I'd say, you need to decide EXACTLY what you need. There are some phenomenal units on the market and coming out...I'd say in world of attenuation and power amps this is the strongest contender at the moment.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

traynor_garnet said:


> Is the Waza a good attenuator? YES! At least as good as the Fryette but I actually think it is better. To those who think the TAE must suck because it doesn't use a _tube_ power amp, please actually go use one before jumping to conclusions. Also, does your PA suck because it doesn’t use tubes? The power amp in a reamper is supposed to be neutral and you do not want it breaking up or colouring your signal. A well designed SS power section simply makes more sense than using tubes.


Well stated. SS power amps are just fine, even the lowly Class D versions, if you don't run them non-linear (anywhere near audible clipping). If the tone is already created/sorted before the poweramp, any clean, flat amp will work just fine, SS or tube. The same with modelers. If your sound is partially preamp and partially power amp components, most likely you will want a tube power amp (as it's distortion characteristics are much more pleasing than an SS amp's). 

Some people are concerned if the PS will 'overwrite' their EL34 or EL84 tone with it's 6L6 power section. It won't because the PS power section is designed as a reproduction system and is quite linear (it could probably be driven into non-linearity but that would be really loud). Whatever you slam the load with comes accurately out of the power amp. The load is the biggest limitation, not having nearly as much adjustment as the Waza. And that's where it beats the Unleash, IMO, not because of the tube power section.


Good review. There are a few good atten/reamp options out there now and I am curious about this unit but currently on a completely different tangent, and enjoying _that_ a lot.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

TimH said:


> Yes I just picked up a TAE over the weekend and I would agree with everything posted. The TAE is an exceptional unit.
> 
> For reference I have personally own the THD Hotplate, Weber MASS and Suhr RL plus Torpedo CAB and GFI Cabzeus. I regularly play a Kemper live and have had the Helix as well.
> 
> ...


I have Weber Mini Mass. I am using it for attenuation. How does it rate from your experience? Have you ever used the line out into your daw with it?


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

player99 said:


> I have Weber Mini Mass. I am using it for attenuation. How does it rate from your experience? Have you ever used the line out into your daw with it?


It’s been a while but I think if I recall correctly it was fine when subtle. I never used it into my DAW...IR’s weren’t a thing then.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

player99 said:


> I have Weber Mini Mass. I am using it for attenuation. How does it rate from your experience? Have you ever used the line out into your daw with it?


No comparison to the mini mass. The mini mass was one of the units I liked he least. 

I haven't used the line out for recording but the waza actually can work as a sound card so you can go straight to the daw/disc.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

For those who have used a Weber Mass, did you ever get a sound like a ring modulator out of it? Did you work around it?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Hammerhands said:


> For those who have used a Weber Mass, did you ever get a sound like a ring modulator out of it? Did you work around it?


No mine has not. 

There are limits. You need double the watts on the Weber to the amp. So a 50 watt amp needs the 100 watt Weber.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

player99 said:


> For $1,600 plus tax it better be good.
> 
> Boss - WAZA Tube Amp Expander


 Yeah, I was hopeful that Boss was going to do aa great product at a $999 price tag to bring it to more users.
But they went with the money .......ce la vie.....


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

player99 said:


> For $1,600 plus tax it better be good.
> 
> Boss - WAZA Tube Amp Expander


This.

And it seems like I can order the Power Station 2 for about $1000 CAD.

I don't need or want all of the effects and simulations in the TAE. I want simple. So I'm thinking for my purposes and wants, the PS2 is the way to go.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

reckless toboggan said:


> This.
> 
> And it seems like I can order the Power Station 2 for about $1000 CAD.
> 
> I don't need or want all of the effects and simulations in the TAE. I want simple. So I'm thinking for my purposes and wants, the PS2 is the way to go.


I bought my Weber Mini Mass for $60 used.


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

player99 said:


> I bought my Weber Mini Mass for $60 used.


Don't like the sound of the Weber products, at any price really. For that range of product, I get better sounds (more clarity and less tone sucking mush) from my Dr. Z Airbrake.

For me, sound and function wise, it's between the Rivera Rockcrusher Recording and the Fryette PS2.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Glad to hear that the Boss is such a nice unit. My alternative to attenuation is the MXR 10 band EQ with everything down -12db. Then I can crank the tubes a bit more and adjust for attenuation where needed. I'm a cheap bastard.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

bzrkrage said:


> Yeah, I was hopeful that Boss was going to do aa great product at a $999 price tag to bring it to more users.
> But they went with the money .......ce la vie.....





reckless toboggan said:


> This.
> 
> And it seems like I can order the Power Station 2 for about $1000 CAD.
> 
> I don't need or want all of the effects and simulations in the TAE. I want simple. So I'm thinking for my purposes and wants, the PS2 is the way to go.



Yeah I get it. It is a lot of money no doubt. That said, it's the best one out there and if you want to do really low volume stuff, running the real cabs along side monitors/IRs is essential in my mind. I've sold a ton of amps and just kept the big amp that I actually love. I've also stopped looking for transparent overdrive pedals and other workarounds that sound like an amp cranked up.

The power station is good and I certainly liked mine, but at the end of the day running pedals into a clean amp was better than using the power station at home volumes. With the boss, I've got complete control of the volumes i play at in any venue/situation. I'm getting the best tone I've ever had in my life and more importantly, I'm playing a lot more music and playing better than ever.


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

traynor_garnet said:


> ... at the end of the day running pedals into a clean amp was better than using the power station at home volumes.


Interesting and good to know.

Can to elaborate on what the differences were, or what led to this conclusion?

I haven't been able to listen to, or test play, a PS2 in person, so I'm relying on word of mouth and the youtubes.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Bought a Stephenson amp with Power Scaling and never had to try anything else. Looks like that decision has paid for the amp twice over now, by the comments I am seeing here. Gotta be done right is the main difficulty for some.


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## madhermit (Dec 31, 2017)

I’ve been enjoying mine a lot since I got it early Summer. Paired with a switcher it is a killer setup for an amp hoarder like me.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

madhermit said:


> . Paired with a switcher it is a killer setup for an amp hoarder like me.


Nice setup! This, is what the Mrs thought I was doing in my man cave. I see yours and say " Hey. What's that strange thing in front of my amps, ?
Ohh, it's clean floor without cables everywhere! That's what that looks like!"


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## madhermit (Dec 31, 2017)

bzrkrage said:


> Nice setup! This, is what the Mrs thought I was doing in my man cave. I see yours and say " Hey. What's that strange thing in front of my amps, ?
> Ohh, it's clean floor without cables everywhere! That's what that looks like!"


It’s like Hollywood. The mess is just outside the frame. %h(*&


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

reckless toboggan said:


> Interesting and good to know.
> 
> Can to elaborate on what the differences were, or what led to this conclusion?
> 
> I haven't been able to listen to, or test play, a PS2 in person, so I'm relying on word of mouth and the youtubes.


Quite simply, at low overall sound levels a pedal into a clean amp is just as good/if not better than an amp cranked up into the PS2. An amp cranked up but barely hitting the speakers with volume just doesn't sound great. Gig level, it's a toss up.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

reckless toboggan said:


> Don't like the sound of the Weber products, at any price really. For that range of product, I get better sounds (more clarity and less tone sucking mush) from my Dr. Z Airbrake.
> 
> For me, sound and function wise, it's between the Rivera Rockcrusher Recording and the Fryette PS2.


The other advantage of the PS2 (or Waza or Unleash) is that they also make small amps bigger/louder. I use my PS1 a lot for this. I can gig a 5E3 clean with a loud drummer with a PS1, can't do that with any passive attenuator. 

That alone makes it $500 better than a lot of those cheap attenuators mentioned here. The better (and more adjustable) sound quality makes up the other at least $500. It was a no-brainer for me. No regrets at all buying the Fryette - it does what it's advertised to do. With the various re-ampers, it's a just variations on the same theme.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Dorian2 said:


> Glad to hear that the Boss is such a nice unit. My alternative to attenuation is the MXR 10 band EQ with everything down -12db. Then I can crank the tubes a bit more and adjust for attenuation where needed. I'm a cheap bastard.


I really wished it worked that way, but it's just a myth. 

You don't crank (power) tubes by putting an 'attenuator' before them - whether that is a volume pedal or MV or EQ. The only way to crank (power) tubes is to hit them with a high-level input signal and make them work hard and clip. And the only way to make that happen at tolerable levels is either a very small power section (like single-ended 1 tube amps) or to attenuate the output of the power stage with one of these power attenuators or re-ampers.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

madhermit said:


> I’ve been enjoying mine a lot since I got it early Summer. Paired with a switcher it is a killer setup for an amp hoarder like me.


Which switcher did you buy? Any issues? Is it completely safe?

TG


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

High/Deaf said:


> I really wished it worked that way, but it's just a myth.
> 
> You don't crank (power) tubes by putting an 'attenuator' before them - whether that is a volume pedal or MV or EQ. The only way to crank (power) tubes is to hit them with a high-level input signal and make them work hard and clip. And the only way to make that happen at tolerable levels is either a very small power section (like single-ended 1 tube amps) or to attenuate the output of the power stage with one of these power attenuators or re-ampers.


Ha. I realized my bad after I posted it. Previous knowledge somehow escaped me for some reason re: Amp stages and attenuation. Mental blips are fun and full of shits and giggles..


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Dorian2 said:


> Ha. I realized my bad after I posted it. Previous knowledge somehow escaped me for some reason re: Amp stages and attenuation. Mental blips are fun and full of shits and giggles..


The good news is: *If it sounds good, do it. 
*
There is no right or wrong, there's just what we like. Pedals, modelers, pre-amp distortion, power amp distortion - who's to say one is right and one is wrong for everyone. EMMV.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

High/Deaf said:


> The good news is: *If it sounds good, do it.
> *
> There is no right or wrong, there's just what we like. Pedals, modelers, pre-amp distortion, power amp distortion - who's to say one is right and one is wrong for everyone. EMMV.


Yup. When I did the EQ trick the thinking was that I wanted a little more preamp volume as I prefer the Power tube sound from the Master on the BS. Lowering the EQ at that stage just allowed for a slighter, tighter refinement of the sound allowing me to juice the pre amps up a bit more than usual. SO in theory it's a no go as far as the attenuation, but it was practical for the particular application. Gave me a different tone and feel, but nothing to write home about.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

player99 said:


> No mine has not.
> 
> There are limits. You need double the watts on the Weber to the amp. So a 50 watt amp needs the 100 watt Weber.


I’m not running it hard at all, amp is on 2 or 3, no speaker plugged in. It’s doing this ringing on the distortion with this setup: guitar->distortion unit->Bassman->Mass 100->CABM using the line-out. Also ringing but a little less with this setup: guitar->distortion unit->Bassman->CABM->Mass 100. 

I can’t recall if it did it using the headphone output on the Mass 100, but it wasn’t as pleasing as the clean sound.

[It is ringing a lot with just the headphones. I feel like if I plug a speaker in it will go away, I will try that tomorrow.]


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## madhermit (Dec 31, 2017)

traynor_garnet said:


> Which switcher did you buy? Any issues? Is it completely safe?
> 
> TG


I bought the DeLisle 7x7 with attenuator loop. Each amp input has a load. I have had no issues at all. It allows me to choose which amp goes to the TAE. I can then choose which speakers the TAE uses or none. It also allows me to use all the other amps with the cabs if I want too. Think of it as a signal router with a dummy load for safety. Each speaker cab can be assigned a different amp.
I also added a TC G Major 2 to the TAE effects loop above it. I vented the rack on both sides, top and bottom, and the TAE runs well within its operating temps.
It’s a delightful setup.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

madhermit said:


> I bought the DeLisle 7x7 with attenuator loop. Each amp input has a load. I have had no issues at all. It allows me to choose which amp goes to the TAE. I can then choose which speakers the TAE uses or none. It also allows me to use all the other amps with the cabs if I want too. Think of it as a signal router with a dummy load for safety. Each speaker cab can be assigned a different amp.
> I also added a TC G Major 2 to the TAE effects loop above it. I vented the rack on both sides, top and bottom, and the TAE runs well within its operating temps.
> It’s a delightful setup.


Wow, that is cool. Any tone hit when inserting the loop between a head and cab? Obviously, it isn't completely passive.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

It seems really cool, but if (when) it fails then you risk blowing up the transformer on your amp. Risk vs advantage. I would be OK with it for amps that the transformers are still readily available, but with '60's Fenders I might not want to risk it. Unless there is some sort of protection?

Anyone know which load switcher thing Tim Pierce uses?


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## madhermit (Dec 31, 2017)

traynor_garnet said:


> Wow, that is cool. Any tone hit when inserting the loop between a head and cab? Obviously, it isn't completely passive.


The DeLisle is totally passive but made with quality parts. I find no tone hit. I was a full-time recording engineer for 10 years if that matters for my opinion.


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## madhermit (Dec 31, 2017)

player99 said:


> It seems really cool, but if (when) it fails then you risk blowing up the transformer on your amp. Risk vs advantage. I would be OK with it for amps that the transformers are still readily available, but with '60's Fenders I might not want to risk it. Unless there is some sort of protection?
> 
> Anyone know which load switcher thing Tim Pierce uses?


I think the risk is way lower than people realize. Each input has a dummy load in case you forget to route it to a speaker. Not sure why that be any more likely to fail than the amp itself? It is essentially a switcher that routes my cables, very basic/simple. The amps I am not using are off. I think the risk is extremely low. This setup has me using all my amps way more frequently than in the past. Love it!

The load switcher Tim Pierce uses is a Kahayan 8x4. That one has a guitar input that switches too. My setup is much more passive and requires my plugging into the front of the amp I want to use. It is something I can easily live with. The switcher Pete Thorn uses is by Ampete.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

madhermit said:


> I think the risk is way lower than people realize. Each input has a dummy load in case you forget to route it to a speaker. Not sure why that be any more likely to fail than the amp itself? It is essentially a switcher that routes my cables, very basic/simple. The amps I am not using are off. I think the risk is extremely low. This setup has me using all my amps way more frequently than in the past. Love it!
> 
> The load switcher Tim Pierce uses is a Kahayan 8x4. That one has a guitar input that switches too. My setup is much more passive and requires my plugging into the front of the amp I want to use. It is something I can easily live with. The switcher Pete Thorn uses is by Ampete.


So you don't have 7 amps on and switch between them. OK.


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## madhermit (Dec 31, 2017)

player99 said:


> So you don't have 7 amps on and switch between them. OK.


Correct. I generally have only 1 amp on at a time. I could have more turned on, but I would still have to unplug from the front of the amp to switch to a new amp anyway. So I generally leave them off/standby until I want to switch. The DeLisle is not for fast switching. The Kahayan and Ampete are for that. Way more $$$.

The other cool thing is that the TAE adds an effects loop and effects to my Dr Z EMS (JTM/JMP/JCM800 style amp), Princeton clone, and 6G3 Deluxe clone. So I can share effects between them essentially.


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

Took mine back. I was specifically looking for recording help so it wasn't perfect. If you're looking to tame your amp live I highly recommend it!


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## madhermit (Dec 31, 2017)

TimH said:


> Took mine back. I was specifically looking for recording help so it wasn't perfect. If you're looking to tame your amp live I highly recommend it!


What didn’t you like about it?
Edit: Do you mean you took back the TAE or a DeLisle switcher?


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## fretninja (Jun 9, 2015)

traynor_garnet said:


> Yeah I get it. It is a lot of money no doubt. That said, it's the best one out there and if you want to do really low volume stuff, running the real cabs along side monitors/IRs is essential in my mind. I've sold a ton of amps and just kept the big amp that I actually love. I've also stopped looking for transparent overdrive pedals and other workarounds that sound like an amp cranked up.
> 
> The power station is good and I certainly liked mine, but at the end of the day running pedals into a clean amp was better than using the power station at home volumes. With the boss, I've got complete control of the volumes i play at in any venue/situation. I'm getting the best tone I've ever had in my life and more importantly, I'm playing a lot more music and playing better than ever.


 Hey man, thanks a lot for your excellent review & commentary. Do you still have the TAE? Still digging it? After 10 years of using Kempers an Fractals, I'm thinking of ditching my latest kemper and getting a TAE for my Friedman Dirty Shirley 40 watt head, hand wired tweed super 5f4 and 20 watt marshall plexi reissue. I've been reading some very positive reviews on the TAE and since I already tried the Ox before it's the TAE that I have my GAS/eyes set on. Let me know if you still have the unit and if you got rid of it, why you did so, cheers !


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

fretninja said:


> Hey man, thanks a lot for your excellent review & commentary. Do you still have the TAE? Still digging it? Let me know if you still have the unit and if you got rid of it, why you did so, cheers !


I absolutely loved the tone but then I started to read a post from people who had blown tubes, fuses, and/or trannies amps with the TAE. The load the unit puts on your amp was then graphed and put up on TGP and the poop hit the fan. Some amp builders stated the TAE is unsafe and will not warranty their amps while using the TAE. It turned into a typical battle and I asked somebody at Boss to comment. Boss took forever to respond and I got worried and sold the unit. When a Boss rep finally showed up on TGP he couldn't address technical questions and simply said they had sold a lot of them and their techs assured him it was completely safe; he couldn't explain why some amps had blown while using the TAE even though the same amps had used Hotplates etc without problem.

I don;t have the tech knowledge to really get into the details. Some very knowledgeable amp builders were chipping in but they do have a financial interest in the discussion (the make competing products). I didn't want to risk blowing my vintage amp so off it went despite sounding so incredibly good. For now, I am looking for smaller amps but may try a Suhr load, power amp, real cab, combo to with my big amp.

TG


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## fretninja (Jun 9, 2015)

traynor_garnet said:


> I absolutely loved the tone but then I started to read a post from people who had blown tubes, fuses, and/or trannies amps with the TAE. The load the unit puts on your amp was then graphed and put up on TGP and the poop hit the fan. Some amp builders stated the TAE is unsafe and will not warranty their amps while using the TAE. It turned into a typical battle and I asked somebody at Boss to comment. Boss took forever to respond and I got worried and sold the unit. When a Boss rep finally showed up on TGP he couldn't address technical questions and simply said they had sold a lot of them and their techs assured him it was completely safe; he couldn't explain why some amps had blown while using the TAE even though the same amps had used Hotplates etc without problem.
> 
> I don;t have the tech knowledge to really get into the details. Some very knowledgeable amp builders were chipping in but they do have a financial interest in the discussion (the make competing products). I didn't want to risk blowing my vintage amp so off it went despite sounding so incredibly good. For now, I am looking for smaller amps but may try a Suhr load, power amp, real cab, combo to with my big amp.
> 
> TG


Holy crap! Thanks so much for letting me know. I recently tried the 1st gen Suhr Reactive Load and although it was OK, I was not getting anywhere close to the results that the wonderful videos on youtube were displaying, so I returned it. Looks like I'm going Ox Box again! Cheers


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

fretninja said:


> Holy crap! Thanks so much for letting me know. I recently tried the 1st gen Suhr Reactive Load and although it was OK, I was not getting anywhere close to the results that the wonderful videos on youtube were displaying, so I returned it. Looks like I'm going Ox Box again! Cheers


Which IRs were you using? What didn't you like about the tone?

TG


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## Pewtershmit (Jun 13, 2014)

traynor_garnet said:


> I absolutely loved the tone but then I started to read a post from people who had blown tubes, fuses, and/or trannies amps with the TAE. The load the unit puts on your amp was then graphed and put up on TGP and the poop hit the fan. Some amp builders stated the TAE is unsafe and will not warranty their amps while using the TAE. It turned into a typical battle and I asked somebody at Boss to comment. Boss took forever to respond and I got worried and sold the unit. When a Boss rep finally showed up on TGP he couldn't address technical questions and simply said they had sold a lot of them and their techs assured him it was completely safe; he couldn't explain why some amps had blown while using the TAE even though the same amps had used Hotplates etc without problem.
> 
> I don;t have the tech knowledge to really get into the details. Some very knowledgeable amp builders were chipping in but they do have a financial interest in the discussion (the make competing products). I didn't want to risk blowing my vintage amp so off it went despite sounding so incredibly good. For now, I am looking for smaller amps but may try a Suhr load, power amp, real cab, combo to with my big amp.
> 
> TG


There where a few threads on the subject, but I believe we answered the technical questions for you (eventually! sorry again) @traynor_garnet. Hopefully this refreshes your memory!






Boss WAZA Tube Amp Expander


Just out of curiosity, have you cranked your amp directly into a cab for long periods? Any problems there? I have into a full stack, no problems. I don't run my Superlead or JCM800 directly into a single cab dimed without attenuation as my cabs are 100W greenback cabs and there is a chance of...



www.thegearpage.net









BOSS WAZA Tube Amp Expander Questions/Problems


Hi I'm Jeff from BOSS. The quick answer is that the transformer in your tube amplifier is an AC coupling unit so if your testing ohms with a typical DCR meter (like most of us have) it measures DC not frequency based AC. You will absolutely see high OHM readings like you mentioned measuring it...



www.thegearpage.net





I apologize if I appear biased, I just want to make sure people are getting the correct information. I've used my WAZA-TAE with many, many different amps. I'm the Product Manager for BOSS in Canada so I've traveled arcoss the country using valuable vintage amplifiers in artists' studios, and in many many stores with brand new amps from the store floor. I also build tube amps and pedals. The information presented on TGP was largley inaccurate, taken by people that did not quite understand the fundementals of what they are measuring. The measurements posted on TGP were taken just from measuring the impedence of the load with an ohm meter. Since it is a _*reactive*_ load that measurement will be far different when being pushed and pulled by an amplifier. Its a completely meaningless measurement to take for the intended use. With speakers as well, it's never an exact measurement across the board and there are even graphs posted in those threads that illustrate that there is quite a variance in what the actual measured impedance a speaker will present across all frequencies. We did speak directly with our support team regarding the possibility any of this being an issue and we have been assured there is nothing to worry about. I believe quite a few builders also corroborated what I said above in those threads.

As Jeff mentioned in the thread, if your taking an amplifier you don't normally crank to full output, you may be highlighting underlying issues the amplifier has since when full blast your amp is working much harder. Its also important for me to mention that electronics dont last forever, if your playing your vintage amplifier full blast you will of course lessen the life of your amplifier ( Heat + Electronics = Bad), regardless if you are attenuating the speaker down or not, the amplifier can't tell. More heat is also more wear on the tubes and a power tube failing in an amplifier can absolutley take out a transformer in rare cases. This is a risk we take with a tube amplifier design and is exacerbated by the low quality tube manufacturers out there these days. Tubes are not held to the same stringent quality control as yesteryear since the primary application is "make big noise machines" and not rocket ships. Then again, capacitors dry up over time even if the amp is not in use, so you may as well play it like it was meant to! 

The manufacturer mentioned in that thread regarding warranties said they would not warranty their amps from using *ANY *attenuator/loadbox, not just the Waza Tube Amp Expander. Which in itself is a strange thing, since attenuators/loadboxes of all types have been used safely for many, many years. Heck, it is standard practice to use a load to test an amplifier after assembly to make sure there are no problems.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Thanks @Pewtershmit 

@fretninja I didn't mean to pass on bad information. I am not a tech so some of this goes way beyond my head. During the initial kerfuffle on TGP I was somewhat skeptical/concerned that one of the participants had a vested interest in the outcome and was possibly shilling for his own competing product. I don't know that to be true, but TGP seems to allow a few select members to promote themselves in ways I am not comfortable with. I am not saying this was actually case, but just take everything with a grain of salt.

TG



Pewtershmit said:


> There where a few threads on the subject, but I believe we answered the technical questions for you (eventually! sorry again) @traynor_garnet. Hopefully this refreshes your memory!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## madhermit (Dec 31, 2017)

Note: This post is all about sharing knowledge and seeking more, nothing else.

I had some concerns with the TAE after getting one, and was utterly confused by mid 2020. I really like the product, so I was hoping it would be ok. I am still not certain, but I am reasonably confident that my amps won’t be damaged.

What I did recently was a retroactive read of what has been talked about since last Spring and saved the most informative posts. So here they are. I think they have the best info we have to date. I posted the rough dates for some of them at the start of each post, and the first ones are from June 2020 I believe. the @ is the username of the person who posted in case you want to read more of what someone had to say.

What I would like to know in more detail is...
1. What the impedance curve is like when measured properly, with different settings on the TAE?

2. How much does the volume/output of the amp affect the curve, if at all?

3. Is running an new, well built amp at near full volume (eg. a Dr. Z Z Wreck at full master and 8 on volume/gain) a risky prospect?

4. If I am damaging my transformers, what are some early signs?

***

...
@ewsethan says

Something is really odd about all of this. On one hand, I don’t doubt for a second the values that Husky is presenting in this thread. While he is a direct competitor, he always conducts himself with absolute integrity and he is a person with a fantastic scientific background. On the other hand, with numbers that look this extreme and scary, how can so few people have issues? I know so many people (myself included) that have this unit and love it and heard nothing of any issues until this thread. So how is that possible? How can these numbers that are so extreme not be causing more issues? Perhaps they are not as particularly unsafe as they appear because some amp makers build their amps to be able to handle more variance? Or is it how people are using it (e.g. not running their amps on 10?)

All I know is this data looks scary but the unit is blowing up so few amps. That is hard to reconcile.
...

@Husky says... (John Suhr of Suhr)

it's not at all strange. Eddie Van Halen used to run his Bassman into a dead short all the time, I've had an artist with master volume Marshall play a whole tour using the line out and no load. The transformer was fine. Mainly because he wasn't running all that loud. The amp is loaded it's not like it at 200 at all frequencies As I explained at 500Hz it is around 8. But, if you're going to be taking 100 W amp and putting it on 10, you were already at an edge, produce a lot of energy at those frequencies where it is 200 then you have someone on this thread who had issues. IF you're plugging into a fender amp at three or four, I really wouldn't think about it you're probably fine. Not everyone runs the amps on the edge of insanity which is where things get critical, voltages get high. If somebody wants to be 100% safe the only real solution is to load that amplifier with what it was designed to see. And if you have any doubts as to what I'm saying then please go ahead and buy the test set up for $130, if you don't get the same results I did I will buy it from you, I could use more. I'd ask the amp manufacture what loads he will endorse because that is really what matters.
...
@Husky says... June 2020

Officially I've only had one person have an issue I know about but again it was multiple times and at high power close to 10. If you can run at the lowest settings and be happy with low power I think you are fine but please read your warranty.
Warranty Information | Suhr.com

...

Ed DeGenaro said:
The graphs I've seen, and i presume you're referring to UA and Two Notes are below 40 ohm on both sides. Are you saying you seen stuff where it rises further? And I'm not sure 20 Hz matters at all on any guitar related product. But I'd gladly let some one correct me.
@Husky replied...
Hell yes Ed, some go up to 200ohms on some settings on all the bass freq not just 20hz, sure the amp won’t produce it in combination with the speakers and their limit but there is a large bandwidth at high impedance. It really depends on the transformer. There are some audiophile type transformers that have massive amounts of iron on them and are designed to go down to 20Hz but most guitar amp output transformers kind of drop out when you get down that low. However, if you have a preamp that’s shoving a ton of 20Hz at the power section the output transformer will do it’s best to pass it on to the speaker but it a tough nut to crack. Why not just use a normal speaker curve? Price and size
...
@Mike Lind says...
A circuit similar to TAE graph on right. They didn’t model the inductor coil.
Note. This is note the actual TAE.









There is nothing wrong with the TAE except that they have made a design decision that is questionable. Other big manufactures have made similar decisions although with not as high values. (OX, Captor)

I am trying to weigh my words carefully as there is nothing wrong with these devices but their reactive loads will not capture the response of a guitar speaker cab. However, they have excellent software programmers so the result can still sound great.
...

@jeff Slingluff says...

Hi I'm Jeff from BOSS. The quick answer is that the transformer in your tube amplifier is an AC coupling unit so if your testing ohms with a typical DCR meter (like most of us have) it measures DC not frequency based AC. You will absolutely see high OHM readings like you mentioned measuring it this way. But it’s nothing to worry about as that's not what is interacting with your tube amplifiers transformer. We've tested WAZA-TAE out in hundreds of scenarios prior to shipping the product and currently there are thousands of people using with cranked up amps that are having no issues. If you use the DCR meter (which you shouldn't use) on products like the OX you'll see high OHM readings as well. Although the OX is apparently tuned to a 1x12 Deluxe so it’s probably not as high of OHMS as some of the choices on the WAZA-TAE.

Jeff Slingluff
BOSS & Roland Guitar Products Manager U.S.
...


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Even if I'm not getting one, thanks for the great info folks!


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## hawkbone (Feb 27, 2021)

Hi everyone, I'm new here and also new to attenuators. I recently bought a Captor that allowed my 74 Traynor 90w Bassmaster absolutely sing so I'm sold on the concept. Only limitation I see with the Captor is that it's a fixed attenuation at -20dB. Using the DI out to a PA will probably be similar to the TAE reamp function but I've only begun to dig into that. I was close to buying a TAE because it seems like the ultimate solution but the discussions referred to above plus the statement from BOSS that the TAE isn't suitable for bass guitar pushed me to the Torpedo. Has anyone tried the TAE with bass? Does BOSS have plans to release a bass friendly version?


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## Pewtershmit (Jun 13, 2014)

Your bassmaster is totally fine. Fender Bassman and vintage Marshall’s share a similar circuit to yours if it’s a YBA-1A. the line between for bass or guitar was pretty blurry back then. 

WAZA TAE is not to be used with solid state amps.


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## hawkbone (Feb 27, 2021)

Thanks for the quick reply Danny. I'm curious why BOSS warned specifically against bass amps. The warning wasn't solid state bass amps, just bass amps. When I saw that discussion about the high impedance at low frequencies I wondered if that was the issue. I realize that there's little difference in old bass and guitar tube amps, but there is a difference in the frequency content of the signal we're asking it to deal with.

cheers


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

hawkbone said:


> Thanks for the quick reply Danny. I'm curious why BOSS warned specifically against bass amps. The warning wasn't solid state bass amps, just bass amps. When I saw that discussion about the high impedance at low frequencies I wondered if that was the issue. I realize that there's little difference in old bass and guitar tube amps, but there is a difference in the frequency content of the signal we're asking it to deal with.
> 
> cheers


Maybe they are sensitive to vibration. There have been users complaining of high pitched noise when they have it too close to their amps.


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## Pewtershmit (Jun 13, 2014)

hawkbone said:


> Thanks for the quick reply Danny. I'm curious why BOSS warned specifically against bass amps. The warning wasn't solid state bass amps, just bass amps. When I saw that discussion about the high impedance at low frequencies I wondered if that was the issue. I realize that there's little difference in old bass and guitar tube amps, but there is a difference in the frequency content of the signal we're asking it to deal with.
> 
> cheers


Yeah good question, I’m not entirely sure. I’ll do some research there. Just to confirm. Are you using it with a Bass? Or guitar with bass amp?


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## hawkbone (Feb 27, 2021)

Pewtershmit said:


> Yeah good question, I’m not entirely sure. I’ll do some research there. Just to confirm. Are you using it with a Bass? Or guitar with bass amp?


Thanks. Impressed with your responsiveness, Danny. I use it for bass, including 5 string, so fundamentals as low as 30hz are possible.
cheers


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## pipestone62 (Nov 14, 2013)

Great info, I’m a big fan of attenuators, the difference you get in sound from running your master up and driving the power section and then using attenuation to control volume is awesome. I have power station, Ho, Dr Z, all work well. Will get a Boss someday, expensive but impressive.


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## danielSunn0))) (Dec 28, 2015)

Does anyone else seem to have an issue with the TAE adding a lot of low end and scoop the tone when going through an interface and DAW? Bear in mind that I generally play in Drop C or B, but I find that when I play an amp through my real 4x12 cabs at the jamspace then bring the amp home to run through a recorded setup, I need to turn the bass and depth knobs down substantially to fight the amount of low end. Another way I course correct is to use 2x12 IR's (from OwnHammer ZLFB/ZLSF) because any 4x12 IR's are too boomy, and even if the PresZ and ResZ are in the highest settings, it doesn't help much with the overall problem. I imagine this is my user error which is why I come to this thread to ask. It's a little frustrating to be using my Morris XSIII Custom through it and have it sound like a fizzy, scooped pedal with too much low end.... Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Whats your process to eq through the 412?

Im willing to bet you're hearing how your cab would sound mic'd when you run the tae.

Running less bass is usually a great rule of thumb for guitarists.


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## madhermit (Dec 31, 2017)

danielSunn0))) said:


> Does anyone else seem to have an issue with the TAE adding a lot of low end and scoop the tone when going through an interface and DAW? Bear in mind that I generally play in Drop C or B, but I find that when I play an amp through my real 4x12 cabs at the jamspace then bring the amp home to run through a recorded setup, I need to turn the bass and depth knobs down substantially to fight the amount of low end. Another way I course correct is to use 2x12 IR's (from OwnHammer ZLFB/ZLSF) because any 4x12 IR's are too boomy, and even if the PresZ and ResZ are in the highest settings, it doesn't help much with the overall problem. I imagine this is my user error which is why I come to this thread to ask. It's a little frustrating to be using my Morris XSIII Custom through it and have it sound like a fizzy, scooped pedal with too much low end.... Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!


Something that helped me understand recording guitar amps was thinking of the mic as a mechanical ear. If you crouched down and put your ear where it is, it is a very different sound that standing up and away from the cabinet/speaker. The closer and more central on the speaker you get, the brighter it sounds. The TAE is a virtual mic essentially. It will not sound like your amp in the room without lots of fiddling with the IR types, mic blends, room effects, etc.

Most of what you are talking about is bass/low end. That is a whole other ball game. Your room could be substantially altering what you hear from your cab, and the TAE direct removes the room from the equation. That opens up a whole can O worms about acoustic treatment.

Maybe you know all that, but others might benefit from it. Most people haven’t stuck their head in front of a guitar speaker, and are not used to that sound.

Try it people. Put you ear close to your speaker and move it around. You will have to keep the volume down obviously.
An even better way is to mic up your cab, then have someone slowly move the mic around the speaker, closer and farther away, while you listen on headphones away from the primary sound source. Pretty substantial changes.

Just trying to keep with the theme of this thread which seems to be about educating people.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

@madhermit do it with the volume up too. Thats what the mic puts through the PA at shows. The sooner guitarists EQ at the speaker, the better off we'll all be.


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