# "No fool like an old fool" Part: (Oh Damn...I can't remember)



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I have some pickguard material and I'm thinking of making a dog ear shaped pickup ring and trying a Tele pickup in the neck of my Casino Coupe.








Any thoughts?

Please don't suggest the obvious ...I do not want to buy a "whole Tele" at this time.

I typically only use the neck pickup so balance between the neck and bridge pickups is not an issue.

Any suggestions for a reasonably priced and easily obtained neck pickup?
Something that tends toward "warmish" tones.

My good friend @starjag and I discussed this concept today and he is wondering if the height adjustment of the pickup might be pushed to the limit to enable the pickup to be close enough to the strings. We discussed the possible need for "standoffs" under the two pickup ring screws.

For anyone not familiar, this is a Casino Coupe
(basically a fully hollow, 339 sized guitar)









Thanks for your comments.


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

Guitar Part - CONVERSION PICKUP RING Mounting Trim Bezel - P90 DogEar to Telecaster Neck Single Coil - Black, Clear, Chrome Gold Mirror


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

rollingdam said:


> Guitar Part - CONVERSION PICKUP RING Mounting Trim Bezel - P90 DogEar to Telecaster Neck Single Coil - Black, Clear, Chrome Gold Mirror


That is exactly what I am going to make from the BWB pickguard material.


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## markxander (Oct 24, 2009)

Just eyeballing my own guitar, I think because it's the neck position it should fit really well. If it were the bridge you'd definitely have to shim it because of neck angle/bridge height.

I think it's a cool idea but I hope you're not disappoined. There's a reason there are so many teles out there with the neck pickup swapped for something more interesting....


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

markxander said:


> I think it's a cool idea but I hope you're not disappoined. There's a reason there are so many teles out there with the neck pickup swapped for something more interesting....


My insatiable curiosity and (in part) this HUGE thread have been motivating me.
Telecaster Love Thread, No Archtops Allowed


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I will preface this suggestion by noting that I do not know if it can be done safely. 

With that disclaimer, I will note that your Casino uses P90 pickups. The P90 pickup employs a ferromagnetic centre "keeper bar" into which the polepiece screws are inserted, and a_ pair_ of bar magnets coupled to that center keeper bar. The outside edge of each bar magnet is the same polarity, such that the field created goes from the centre - whatever polarity that is - to each of the outside edges.

If one were to remove one of the bar magnets, the sensing area would be reduced. Not the same sort of single coil sensing area that a Strat or Tele pickup has but narrower than a stock P90. Again, I have no idea how easy or reversible it is to simply pull out one of those mags, and replace it with an appropriate inert spacer. But you wouldn't have to buy anything, drill any holes, or fabricate anything.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@mhammer Thanks for your response.

My intended approach is to remove the existing/stock dog ear P90 intact and set it aside. 
I don't want to try and mess with the existing pickups as they are apparently somewhat "proprietary"...
Lollar Pickups: Dogear and Casino Model Page

I would then make a plastic pickup ring/holder as shown in the first pic.

I would buy an inexpensive Tele neck pickup and mount it in pickup holder.

Drilling into the guitar body would not be necessary as the existing screw holes would be fine.

Granted, I would have the expense of a Tele neck pickup.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I'll post a query on the pickup-makers forum to see if what I suggested is feasible and of musical value. At this point, I'm more curious than anything.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Measuring a neck pup from an early 2000's MIM Tele just now at .610" from the top of the plate to the top of the metal cover, so height should not be an issue you should be able to back it off into the cavity or bring it up as close as you like to the strings - with your adaptor plate I don't think you'll have any issue.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> I'll post a query on the pickup-makers forum to see if what I suggested is feasible and of musical value. At this point, I'm more curious than anything.


Thanks. I'll be curious (as always) to know the responses to your query in that forum.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Jimmy_D said:


> Measuring a neck pup from an early 2000's MIM Tele just now at .610" from the top of the plate to the top of the metal cover, so height should not be an issue you should be able to back it off into the cavity or bring it up as close as you like to the strings - with your adaptor plate I don't think you'll have any issue.


Thanks. You beat me to it re: looking up some dimensions.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

This is interesting. However, not totally conclusive and oft derailed...
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...-neck-pup-in-a-335-style-semi-hollow.1250261/


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

greco said:


> Thanks. I'll be curious (as always) to know the responses to your query in that forum.


Apparently lots of trout in that lake. Got a nibble already.
Whaddya get when....


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Apparently lots of trout in that lake. Got a nibble already.
> Whaddya get when....


Thanks for the link. 
I'll check in later to see how many are biting as time goes on.


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

Do it!


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## nnieman (Jun 19, 2013)

I would be more tempted to try a firebird pickup or mini humbucker.
I think a tele pickup with a p90 bridge would be horribly underwhelming.

Nathan - the guy who doesn’t own many teles with tele neck pickups


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## nbs2005 (Mar 21, 2018)

@greco I like it. If it works, you will like it to. Tele neck pups are sublime. They often sound kind of meh, but once dialed in with the amp tone stack and the guitar tone, the are absolutely incredible.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

nnieman said:


> I think a tele pickup with a p90 bridge would be horribly underwhelming.


I hardly ever use anything beyond the neck position. Boring..I know.

Did you see this link I posted earlier?...
Telecaster Love Thread, No Archtops Allowed


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

starjag said:


> Do it!


@Jimmy_D has a Tele neck pickup for me and has made an extremely generous offer. 

Stay tuned.


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

You can use that lovely cloth wire you have


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Maybe a little late, but in response to my query at the pickup-makers forum, someone posted this nugget from the Seymour Duncan forum from 2016. Worth a look.

P90 single mag / narrowfield mod


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Worth a look.


Thanks. An interesting read.

This is also very interesting...


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## nnieman (Jun 19, 2013)

greco said:


> Thanks. An interesting read.
> 
> This is also very interesting...
> 
> View attachment 308094


That makes sense.
Totally different size coils in those two pickups, very different construction.
If you under wound a p90 to 5000 turns you *might get more of a jazzmaster tone... definitely not a tele.

Dave please let us know how you like it.
When I think jazz tone I think mini humbucker or Charlie Christian.... but i am not really a jazz guy.
A p90 is one of my favourite neck pickups.

Nathan

ps if you are looking to spend some money and experiment a bit check out McNelly pickups - he’s got a Charlie Cristian in a p90 size & even a humbucker based on the Charlie Christian.
Very cool stuff & he’s in Ontario!!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

nnieman said:


> Dave please let us know how you like it.
> 
> When I think jazz tone I think mini humbucker or Charlie Christian.... but i am not really a jazz guy.
> 
> ...


I'll keep this thread updated with my results. Unfortunately, I won't be posting any recordings. I don't have the patience, enthusiasm and playing skills to do that.

Folks in the (global) jazz guitar forum out of Belgium use every pickup and guitar style/combination known to mankind when it comes to playing jazz...seriously! There are many tones that are considered to be "jazz tones"...as seen in virtually all genres. I tend towards the more "classical" jazz tones...but even the definition of that is hotly debated.

Thanks for the info re: McNelly. I'm not looking to spend much money at the moment and was fortunate that @Jimmy_D had a Tele neck pickup that he wasn't using and is being extremely generous and offering to me for the cost of shipping.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

The pickup from @Jimmy_D arrived today. I chose to put it into the Epi 339 rather than the Casino Coupe. I had several reasons for not choosing the Casino Coupe, but that is boring stuff.

I also chose to make the pickup holder from some plastic that I had kicking around rather than the BWB pickguard material. This white material (? Polyethylene) is very easy to work with. Getting all the measurements to be "somewhat close" to accurate and drilling the holes was the most tedious part of the "project" (logically)

I have not spent any time playing it. However, when I tested the electronics before reassembling, it seemed to have the muddy, warm, boring, muffled jazz tone I enjoy.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

So you're aiming for Ed Bickert in a 339?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> So you're aiming for Ed Bickert in a 339?


I need to start by trying to fill MUCH smaller shoes!

Have a look at this when you have extra some time ...
Telecaster Love Thread, No Archtops Allowed
(Ed would be so proud!)


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## Fox Rox (Aug 9, 2009)

Nice work @greco!


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

So how muddy is the mud?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

starjag said:


> So how muddy is the mud?


It certainly can get muddy but also a bit "fatter" ...
(sincere apologies to anyone I might have offended)


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