# setup on larrivee - will this vary greatly by place?



## pulper (Apr 23, 2007)

hi everyone - looking at getting a new larrivee (a christmas present to myself). after 9 months doing fingerstyle on my yamaha f310p, i've finally had it and need the wider neck. looking forward to it.

i've thought about going stateside but have looked into a couple toronto stores and they are not bad as far as price. one of them (guitarshop) has said that they will do the setup for free if i buy the guitar from them. i'm not sure if 12th fret will do that (i'm waiting to hear back) but considering how much they charge for a setup and their wait time (i hear it's over a month), i'm thinking they might not do it for free. both charge the same for the guitar.

my question is - will a basic setup (what i'm looking for here mostly is to have the action lowered if necessary) be done just as well at either place in your opinion? from what i've read, both are very reputable companies, which is why i don't mind dealing with either. i've read many good things about custom work done at the 12th fret, which is why i'm asking if this makes a difference.

thanks for any opinions offered. p.s. now i'm entered for the contest for the amp.


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## ShooApple (May 24, 2007)

I know when I bought my Larrivee at 12th fret, they set it up with my favorite Daddario strings before money exchanged hands and put the action lower. As it turned out, I needed the action just a bit higher after I had played it for a few days and they did that no cost. I apparently also get another free setup within 3 months. A couple of the guys there used to work with Larrivee, so they seem to know what they're doing.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

While I appreciate everyone's point of view it has come to my attention,that some of you do not understand,and after receiving 7 very disturbing e-mails to my home I have decided to remove myself from this and ond the forum.Ship


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Ship of fools said:


> You shouldn't need a set up on any Larrivee,they are basically set up right fromthe get go, if you need something lower than the one you bought, well its the wrong guitar for you then, Larrivee's are almost what would be considered a hand built, not completley, but darn close and if the guitar is out that much that it needs to be reset,well they shouldn't be selling it then and the work would and should be covered under warranty, maybe take a look at the Larrivee site (sorry you need to do some of the work) and ask questions before you buy from either place,when you are forking out that kind of dough you better be getting something for it and its important to make sure you chose the right guitar for the right style of music.Ship


with respect, i must kinda disagree here- 
i dont know anybody who likes theyre guitars set up the way mine are, and most other folks guitars arent set up the way i like them.
rarely do i find a guitar in a store or anywhere that is set up as i like it and i doubt that larrivee would do a factory set up to mine or anyone elses personal specs, and if the setup was dependent on the model, thatd be kinda strange- 
it only makes sense to me that having shelled out the money for a fine guitar, pulper would want it setup to his satisfaction- he may not like the strings that come stock for example, and a gauge change would necessitate a setup tweak perhaps- just for starters-
not to mention climate change, and the instrument settling in as it is being played the first few months. he could spend $20,000 on a guitar and still might want or need a setup change- thats just how it works.


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## Tybone (Feb 12, 2006)

I bought an LV-09E from the 12th Fret a month or two ago. They stated quite clearly that they are going to tweak the setup to my liking on the spot. The nut was cut very well so a truss rod adjustment got the action to where I like it pretty much. They also said that I can bring the guitar back any time within the next 3 months to have it setup again. I think I may need to have the bridge shaved just a hair. Maybe not. Bottom line is they knew what they were doing. The guitar needed a minor change to meet my specs and they were very good about it. Also threw in an in case humidifier.

Cheers
Larry


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

same as above.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

well i only used my setup as an example to point out that a setup is a pretty individual thing- in my case i would want a higher action, possibly a flatter radius nut, and the height of each string would be adjusted individually over a period of a few days, to accomidate both fretting and slide, as well as heavy strumming and a hard attack. i like a dead straight neck whenever possible, so lots of work needs to be done on the nut and saddle heights to avoid buzz.
thats completely not relevant here, but you asked.
of course thats not the point though, my point was, if pulper found an expensive guitar that he wanted and liked, then thats the guitar he needs. the setup is secondary, in my mind, and is done to tweak a guitar to fit the person-
im not familiar with larivees, and i dont bother with $1000 dollar guitars, but i dont see that as relevant. if i had just forked out a load of cash on one, i definately would not hesitate to make it usable to myself.
the other 2 buyers of larivees in this thread had theyre guitars adjusted- so obviously a larivee is not perfect for everyone right off the wall- and its my contention that this is the case with all kinds of guitars, regardless of quality or cost, and is a personal preference thing.
i believe that a quality guitar, and a satisfactory setup are 2 seperate things, and i would never encourage somebody to look at a different model because the setup on the one he likes is not for him-
i understand that your opinion is based on your experience, and in that context it is the correct opinion, for you.
i guess my post is meant to point out that opinions based on experience, just like a guitars setup, can vary amongst individuals-
sorry if i got a bit long winded, all this thinking has made me hungry so i go out into the world to find something to eat- 
have a good day ship


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## onewiley3 (Dec 7, 2007)

*Good luthier in St. John't Newfoundland*

oops...posted in wrong thread...sorry.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Okay it says I need more*


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## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

Ship of fools said:


> While I understand your reasoning for a middle of the road guitar, are you going to take a Bourgeois or a Froggy Bottom and change things on it to fit your needs, sorry but I dont think so.


I would certainly have adjustments made to any guitar to accomodate my individual needs. What difference does the price point make?

When I say "adjustments", I'm referring to neck relief, nut slot depth, and saddle height.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

*Last attempt*

yak yak yak yak


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Scottone said:


> I would certainly have adjustments made to any guitar to accomodate my individual needs. What difference does the price point make?
> 
> When I say "adjustments", I'm referring to neck relief, nut slot depth, and saddle height.


thats the point im making, exactly, as it pertains to the original posters question-
in as much as setup can effect sound, it has more to do with playability than sound. and everybodies sense of playability is different. 

ship, i think maybe you are one of those types of players who accepts whatever setup is on the guitar, and then adjusts theyre playing style to suit it- some folks are like that. or maybe your playing style is one that doesnt demand a perfect string action at all points of the fingerboard- i dunno. but i just find your reasoning that because its a larrivee it doesnt need a setup to be ludicrous. 
if i plunked $1000 and bought one tho, it would sit unused unless by some miraculous twist of fate it was already setup right for me. lower end or high end- theres always a helluva good chance its going to need a setup.
just because it is high end means nothing- the string action is setup to either factory spec, or to somebody elses spec. not to mine, quality, worksmanship and value is all there- but unless i change the way i play the instrument, and theres no way im doing that, itll never be right.
a case in point- i recently played one of these-
http://www.mguitar.com/guitars/choosing/guitars.php?p=z&g=b&m=00-18V
its a $3000 guitar. great build quality, awesome tone, fit in my lap perfect.
but it buzzed like crazy all over the neck- and i wasnt using a pick- gauranteed somebody with a gentler style or a basic chord player would not have those buzzes- but i like to dig right into it, slap the strings and bend a lot- i want to feel that guitar vibrating- by your line of thought then, this guitar would not be right for me, and i need to look for theyre aggresive ham fisted guitar player model.(which wont exist)
by my line of thought, hell ya its right for me, just needs a setup.:smile:
and that is why im here in this thread


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

> While I understand your reasoning for a middle of the road guitar, are you going to take a Bourgeois or a Froggy Bottom and change things on it to fit your needs, sorry but I dont think so.


yes indeed i would without hesitation. had i the money to buy one that is.
also, although i know nothing of larrivee, i have handled, played and setup a number of rather expensive high end guitars over the years, so im not just bieng a loudmouth trying to upset yu.
take care
:food-smiley-004:


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## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

Ship of fools said:


> I am not trying to tell you what to do with the guitars you guys buy I am just playing the devils advocate in trying to get you to realize the differences between say my vintage Framus and one of my upper-end guitars, the work you are talking about is not something that is really ever needed on one of those guitars, if it is,run and do not buy it is all, by the way my Framus made in early 60's has never needed neck relief and nor have most of my guitars,except for a few Taks.Well I think I have beat this poor dead hosre.Ship


Ship, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one

I will acknowledge that most of the high end acoustics that I've tried out at the 12th Fret have great set-ups that I personally wouldn't change. 

On the other hand, when my buddy buys one he brings it up to the repair guys and gets heavy strings installed and the action cranked up.


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## onewiley3 (Dec 7, 2007)

*Nope*

Ship,
You couldn't be more wrong on high-end guitars not needing setup. And especially Larrivee. Larrivees have a reputation for leaving the factory with slightly high action, and left to consumer to adjust to his level. My Larrivee action (nut and saddle) needs to be lowered, my Taylor is fine. What you're telling me is that I shouldn't have purchased a Larrivee because the action didn't suit me. That makes no sense. I buy a guitar if I like it, and then adjust the action to suit me. I had the Taylor lowered a little as well. The only guitar that ever came from a factory with a suitable action is an old Takamine I bought years ago. I will be lowering my Larrivee to a point where it really won't be much good for strumming with a pick because it will buzz. I want that nice low action for fingerpicking. The Taylor is a dread and that's what i pick up when i want to strum. Action is a personal thing, and one should not expect all good guitars to be fitted for them straight from the factory. Not buying a guitar because the action is too high or too low is absolutely NOT good advice. A person could be passing up a great guitar for no good reason.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

*Just my opinion*

***********


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## onewiley3 (Dec 7, 2007)

*no problems*

There were no problems with the Larrivee. A too high or too low action is not a problem. It's a personal preference. It's there to be changed. Or else all guitars would be built using the zero fret that you see on some models. They can't be adjusted (at least at the nut).


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

**********


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## onewiley3 (Dec 7, 2007)

*aha!!*

Now that my friend is a horse of a different color. What you have described here is indeed NOT something that your average guitarist should attempt to adjust. My apologies for misunderstanding. Adjusting saddle positioning (excluding height) is not for the feint of heart. As opposed to just filing nut slots, or sanding the BOTTOM of the bridge, the situation you describe here is totally different and should be avoided by people like er, let's see...ME! It's a problem that one should try to stay clear of when purchasing a new guitar. Not only is it a problem with regards to intonation, it is more costly to fix than a too high or too low action. My apologies for my earlier harsh responses. I was misunderstanding your point.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

lol- hey that explains a lot, the rest of us were talking about action and relief, while you were talking about intonation-
ive had to change saddle angle and carve intonated saddles, its not much fun.
i didnt realize that english was your second language ship- only now that you say this do i notice it. your english is real good.


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## Rhythmeister (May 17, 2006)

Well it looks like this debate might have just been miscommunication.

But in any case, wanted to voice my absolute agreement with Fraser and Scottone. Setup, including such often-related items as string gauge, action height, nut slots, neck relief, and bridge height, cannot be expected to be perfect for every player on any guitar. Price doesn't matter at all as far as that goes.

I own a top-of-the-line Larrivee (D-10 with Brazilian rosewood) and it needed quite a lot of tweaking of these elements before it was how I like it. In my experience, Larivees are not "better" set up right from the factory than any other guitars are.

I also own a Froggy Bottom. I had the store where I bought it set it up to my specifications. Again, it wasn't "just right" until I told them what I needed. This related to what strings I wanted to use, the type of music I tend to play, pick attack, and many other elements.

I can't believe for a second that there's any such thing as a guitar that has the universal perfect setup for every player. And the need for setup has nothing at all to do with the price of an instrument.

Cheers,
Blair


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

hi Rhythmeister-
ya, i think that clarification is important for us, people 5 years from now may read this, and i hope that the web guitar forum that i choose to inhabit is not the source of misinformation.
ship is a really nice person, and im not one to seek out internet arguments, but i believe its important in the context of this particular forum, and its reputation that nobody here should recieve vague or innaccurate advice, again thats the only reason im involved in this thread.
im now wondering if pulper bought the guitar?


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## pulper (Apr 23, 2007)

yes i did buy it. what an interesting thread this has become. it is not my first time in posting a thread that i think is innocent in the beginning and which becomes intense in its discussion. i once posted a thread in another guitar forum about changing strings and knowing where to cut them, and people ended up arguing and swearing in their posts. although i came back to my thread here late (after it seems some posts have been edited), i hope that didn't happen here.

I spoke with 12th fret and they confirmed that they also do a free setup. however, they did not have one in stock and would have to order one in. 

in the end, i decided to go with a luthier in jamestown new york. it was just too cheap to pass up, and as i've only been playing for about 9.5 months now (my current guitar - a yamaha f310p - was purchased february 27th), the only thing that i currently know about what i like in a setup is low action. the luthier is performing this for me, and is also installing a bone saddle as an extra.

once i become more familiar with the guitar, i still might pay the extra $ at 12th fret to get it adjusted more if i need it (or more likely - know what i need).

i do agree though, although i have small knowledge when it comes to guitars, that it would be impossible to have a guitar setup properly for everyone. some people like a higher action, and others want a low action. 

pulper


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## onewiley3 (Dec 7, 2007)

*Not so innocent*

First of all you will notice that Ship has deleted his explanation..for whatever reason, i don't know...but what i do know is this...ship is up to something here...trying to prove himself right i guess when we all know (and he is beginning to sense it as well i would bet) that he is WRONG....the fact that he has deleted his explanation, and then posted the same crap on the AGF leads me to believe he has an agenda here. As for his "misunderstanding", that was a load of crap. His post in the AGF forum shows that he knows exactly what were talking about. And he still thinks a nut and saddle adjustment is WRONG...I was duped by his explanation as well as a couple more of you...so i am posting this so that Ship doesn't think we are the fools he thinks we are..here is what he posted on the AGF forum:

_*"Just a not so quick question for you all out there, why would you go and buy a higher end guitar (ex; Froggy Bottom, but it could be any ) and before
you leave the music store you get them to modify the nut and saddle and the string guage.And you have them basically change everything that made the guitar sound like it did orignally ( which I assume is why you bought it, in the first place ), to something else.
I was recently slammed ( somewhere else ) for suggesting that a higher end guitar need not be adjusted and that if you needed to adjust neck relief and such that maybe that guitar store is not taking good care of its acoustics.
Of course I would expect some to disagree with my point of view, I did not expect some very disturbing e-mails sent to my home regarding my point of view and nor was I thrilled when some who had never played or even tried the said guitar.
So why pay$1000-$10,000.00 for a guitar and then change everything about it, am I missing something after 40+ years of many types and prices of guitars.Ship
Boy I sure hope this makes sense to you."*_

By the way, they didn't agree with Ship on the AGF forum either.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

lol
well thanks for the info onewiley- thats messed up. 
who sent him angry emails? i certainly didnt. he sent me a polite and friendly "no hard feelings" kinda of pm, i responded with the same.
kind of hard to believe any of the others here was sending him angry emails, we are canadians lol.
he does seem like a nice guy though- dunno whats going on here 
was interesting to see all the agf guys have the same opinion as us tho- nice.


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## onewiley3 (Dec 7, 2007)

*Agree*

Nor did I send an angry email. And judging from the responses, I doubt that any of the other respondents did either. Oh well, not much sense wasting time trying to figure it out. Take care all.


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## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

Hey Fraser, I'm glad things worked out for you.

As for Ship, he could be some 14 yr. old kid that's been playing for 6 months....this is the internet


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

pulper- glad you enjoy the guitar man, and sorry about all this- its not your fault lol

onewiley- reading your posts on this over in agf- it occurs to me that i couldnt have said it better myself- good stuff, and ill buy you a beer if you ever come this way

scottone- yup could be a kid lol, but i know some really good players who understand little about the mechanics of guitar setup, and simply have someone else do theyre setup. 
i recall a thread that ship made before when he had somebody setup his guitar and was pleased with the results- i think hes not a kid, just a long time player who always got someone else to fix his stuff without really learning any of it.
also there could be a language barrier of sorts- i dunno
im kind of feeling bad about bieng the "slammer" lol
a wise chick once slurred- "the innernets izzz crazy"


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## onewiley3 (Dec 7, 2007)

*Beer*

hey Fraser,
One thing I won't turn down is the offer of a beer!! Don't be surprised if you find me on your doorstep some day soon!!! Take care, and Merry Christmas to you and yours.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

This has been a very interesting and educational thread. A singer songwriter I know (who in my opinion is very accomplished) once told me that all guitars regardless of price need to be set up upon purchase due to prefference. My Dad, who is a fiddler and guitar player for 60+ years would never dream of such a thing! That said when I purchased my Taylor GS, I left the store as is, it was perfect, for me....


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## onewiley3 (Dec 7, 2007)

*Perfect setup*

Starbuck,
I have no doubt that your Taylor had perfect setup FOR YOU when you bought it. That happens quite often. However, the only guitar that I purchased that had perfect setup FOR ME right out of the box was a Takamine. I had my Taylor, Larrivee, Kasuga, a different Tak, a couple of 12 strings, 3 mandolins, and whatever others i've owned ALL setup after buying. Even though I've had my Taylor adjusted I think that Taylor probably has the closest out-of-the-box setup FOR ME. Then again I haven't bought a taylor in over 5 years so maybe they've changed their factory setup? Either way it's different strokes for different folks.

All this brings up another thought!! I have this old Eko guitar. Beautiful looking guitar, sounds like crap. But, it has the zero fret, and it's action (combined with the slim neck profile) is the most comfortable to play out of all my guitars. No luthier seems to be able to set my guitars up to play like this one. But as I said, it sounds like crap, and always will. I think the narrow nut, neck profile and fretboard radius just combine to be perfect for me. Think I'll take the neck off and put it on my Larrivee!1


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## pulper (Apr 23, 2007)

i have to admit something here. as i've indicated in my previous post, i've seen many threads (on other forums) become rude with many obscenities and sarcastic "zingers" thrown in. i usually don't participate in them as, and others can understand, i believe that a lot of it is done either by 13 year olds who enjoy doing this or by old crumudgeons (sp?) that get angry at everything. i am neither and i simply utilize these forums in order to obtain answers to questions or to help whenever i can.

in that spirit, i have to say that i actually thought people would be upset and make comments that i purchased my guitar in the US instead of here. the fact that they didn't (and that i received a "hope you enjoy it" comment) leaves me with a good feeling about this thread and this forum, no matter what was said before. sometimes what isn't said is as important as what is said.

i haven't received the guitar yet - i'm visiting a friend in the states and picking it up there over the christmas holidays. i'm looking forward to it (who's kidding who - i can't wait to get it)!

merry christmas everyone!

paul


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## onewiley3 (Dec 7, 2007)

*Guitar purchase*

Hello Pulper,
I have purchased my Taylor, Takamines, and all of my guitars locally. Except my Larrivee OM-03R. I purchased that one online from a reputable dealer in the US. I did a lot of research, and had a lot of discussion with the people on the AGF forum before buying. Yes, you are taking somewhat of a risk buying sight unseen. The dealer I purchased from sent me pics of the guitar from every angle, discussed in detail the sound, action, etc. And I'm glad I purchased from there. The guitar was in better condition with nicer woods than any of the OM-03R guitars that were available locally. So hopefully you will have the same satisfaction. Congrats and good luck. Take care, and Merry Christmas to you and your family.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

hi starbuck, i dont think id go so far as to say that all guitars need to be set up, that doesnt take into account individual players and individual manufacturers, it does happen that folks can buy a guitar thats perfect for them, definately. it was the kind of sweeping, blanket statement that ship made regarding larrivees and his advise to pulper that got me interested-
glad you like your guitar!



> i have to admit something here. as i've indicated in my previous post, i've seen many threads (on other forums) become rude with many obscenities and sarcastic "zingers" thrown in. i usually don't participate in them as, and others can understand, i believe that a lot of it is done either by 13 year olds who enjoy doing this or by old crumudgeons (sp?) that get angry at everything. i am neither and i simply utilize these forums in order to obtain answers to questions or to help whenever i can.


thats a good point- i believe that since this is a canadian forum, there is little clash of personalities that you will see in larger international style forums-
in big forums if one guy takes a jab, others will join in, its a pack mentality.
as for where you bought your guitar, its all a matter of economics, if youre talking lots of money, it only makes sense. until canadian prices can compete its a no-brainer- hope you love your new guitar when you get it, buying things sight unseen can be scary, but these days its pretty safe, id be comfortable doing as you did.

that thread over at agf is turning into an interesting one lol, almost as good as ours.
merry christmas to you all too,
be well


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## onewiley3 (Dec 7, 2007)

*Other thread*

Hi again... WHY CAN'T I LEAVE THIS THREAD!!? ....i am not the type to get rude either, and I love to help where I can, and am the first to admit that most of you here are probably more knowledgeable than me....but when it comes to someone making a statement that is outright wrong, i just can't seem to let it go...it's a negative trait in me...not that the statement itself bothers me, it's just that I hate that it may lead others to making a mistake...such as in letting a good guitar slip away just because the only problem was that the action wasn't right for them.

Anyway for those following the thread on the AGF forum, I'm GreatCanadian over there. Cheers.


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