# write lyrics first or after guitar



## offspring (Jun 3, 2008)

i didn't know where to put this since there isn't a vocal section

I've been trying to write lyrics for a month now, and its something completey new and difficult for me but im trying

What do you do first, write the lyrics first and then guitar parts,

ive writtin one song and i wrote the guitar parts first


any advice?


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

i guess its a personal preferance but for the most part my band writes the music first then our vocalist does the lyrics. She sometimes writes lyrics first but they usually take a while until we use them in a song.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

No hard & fast rule, some do it one way, some the other--and some mix it up. That is--some songs have words first, some music first. Some guitarists even use other instruments to write the song--and then figure out the guitar parts later. Try it both ways, see what works.

I've had songs where the lyrics came first--although I had an idea of the music in my head. Sometimes you'll come up with either music or words, and realize it goes well with something you came up with at an earlier time. So try it both ways--and keep it written and/or recorded so you can refer to it later.

Even if you co-write songs--try it both ways.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

90% of the time, I write the words first. I usually just write, without even a notion of melody or rhythm until I'm done, then I try to build a song form around the words. Sometimes some fudging is required, but that's to be expected.

The only time I write music first is if I'm noodling away and come up with something I think is really special, then I'll keep messing with it until I get something I like and think can be worked into an actual song.

I'm trying to get into writing lyrics and music simultaneously, and I find more and more I've got a guitar in my hands strumming random chords when I'm writing, just trying to find a skeleton that works.


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## Axeman16 (Jun 5, 2008)

i always write lyrics after to get a feel for the song.


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

It depends... actually, usually they get written separately. I have a binder full of random lyrics/poetry and I have a folder full of riffs. And occasionally, when I jam on a riff, I'll pull up the binder and find something that "fits". I've done lyrics first - I find the music is somehow less "intricate" this way. If music is done first... it feels like the lyrics are written to "fit" the melody.

I have no clue.


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## rbwi (Aug 5, 2006)

jane said:


> It depends... actually, usually they get written separately. I have a binder full of random lyrics/poetry and I have a folder full of riffs. And occasionally, when I jam on a riff, I'll pull up the binder and find something that "fits". I've done lyrics first - I find the music is somehow less "intricate" this way. If music is done first... it feels like the lyrics are written to "fit" the melody.
> 
> I have no clue.



that make a lot of sense.
me, it's never the same, but what i realised is that in order for a song
to have a ''feel'', it can't be forced, it has to flow. if you try too hard
to make some music and lyrics fit together, it will transpire.

for exemple, if you have great lyrics that don't fit the riffs your working
on, put them aside for later ( it will fit another riff later)
that way your songs will sound less manufactured and more natural.
( if that makes any sense )


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## Spikezone (Feb 2, 2006)

I do it both ways, depending on the song. Sometimes I get a riff that suggests a certain lyric, then I have a guitar part AND some words to develop. Sometimes I get a title in my head and a general theme, then I work out the words and try to fit music to it. There's no real rules, just trial and error. The part I find most difficult is if I have a simple theme and get it expressed in only two verses-I HATE two verse songs (reminds me of REM, except a lot of the time they only have one and a bunch of repeats!).
-Mikey


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

On every song I've ever writen, the music always came first.....whether it be a hook or a cord progression......and then the words would come to me.

I've tried doing words first, then music, and it just does not work. (for me)

On Edit - One thing for sure, when it comes to you, write it down. Cause no mater how well you think you know it, within an hour it can be gone and you'll never get it back again.


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

When i write my songs 80% of the time it comes while im playing guitar.I used to hang out with some friends when i was younger who were into freestyling.I got interested in using it to write songs on guitar.Usually when im playing guitar its mostly improvising,so one thing led to another and i started "freestyling" on my guitar.That is how i write most of my songs and it works generally well for me.Sometimes i just play and inspiration hits me,I sing whatever comes to my head(over a random chord progression)and later write down the words.I usually write everything down,take a break,then do some editing.It's taken a long time to perfect my style of writing but it works for me.If you come back to what you wrote and you dont like the guitar part you can always change it for whatever reason.When i decide to change the guitar part becouse it sounds to similar the feeling of the song i feel changes.Now i try to play somthing different every time so when inspiration hits i wont have to make to much of a drastic change to the song.I like to keep it natural and truer to its origin.:rockon:


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## Worlds okist guitarist (Apr 17, 2018)

Wow, what a great question. It can be super hard writing your own songs. At least I find it can be. I find the easiest way to write is to come up with a bass line or basic rhythm the add lyrics . I find starting out simple allows me to make thing more complex and detailed later. If I start out complex I find it turns into a big mess lacking proper structure. That's just how I approach it. I don't think there is a right or wrong way. I think it's more about experimenting and finding what works best for you .


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I'd say it depends entirely on what inspiration hits first - words or music. Outside of those times, pick whichever you're more comfortable with. We write music first and then our vocalist writes lyrics.


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## Worlds okist guitarist (Apr 17, 2018)

Have you ever tried to put you writing to its own melody first , then write the music? I find doing it that way really helps form a song in a unique way.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Ah ! Great topic. I have a few melodies... and much more lyrics awaiting the spark to marry some.
I would rather be a writer than a composer, but aim at music composition.
I sometimes write four lines and wanders... sometimes wrote a whole interesting page.
Sometimes just throw rough ideas on the white page (subject, somes aspects to talk about) and let it grow...
Some did not grow, but most did. The structure comes later on as the writing progresses.
Sometimes add flesh and blood right away, sometimes put the rough sketch aside and come back a few days later.
I do imagine the intensity/drama the music should outline, but I am not at that level of composition yet.
But if this come to my mood/mind, I note the musical idea as soon as I can (not easy on a golf course !)
As I do not actually sing, I did share some lyrics with a few amateur singers whom gave life to my words.
If you do that I guess you have to let the song live its own life in other's hands. That's what I did : 
Found myself honored it was sung.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

There are no great song writers, only great song re-writers.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

For me it's an iterative process that usually starts with an idea for what the song is about. I'm very new to song writing, only started in January this year. So far I've got three songs and two more partial songs. I start with an idea and just play chords that seem to fit the mood I'm going for while trying random lyrics on the theme. Eventually I hit on a meter that works and have the chords sort of down. Then I sit down and write verses that fit the meter. The meter, chord progression, and lyrics often change as I'm revising. One of my partial songs I thought I had done then realized it was the exact same chord progression and meter as an Allman Brothers song. I really like the lyrics I had so I'm in the process of coming up with different music. Of course with different music some of the lyrics need to change


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

KapnKrunch said:


> There are no great song writers, only great song re-writers.


I guess you mean we should most of the time wash and wax over and over what we are writing, right ?
Montaigne wrote we should polish more and more...


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Here's how I write songs.

Come up with guitar part. Chord progression or lyrics.
Improvise vocals
Figure out what I was singing and use the good parts and fix the bad parts.

Here's a song in progress where the lead vocals you are hearing were completely improvised. I went back and added harmonies. Maybe I will finish it someday but am too lazy lol.


__
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fguncho%2Ffunky-blues


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Here's another idea. Hopefully one day I will get around to finishing it.


__
https://soundcloud.com/id%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fsoundcloud.com%252Fguncho%252Fstars%252Fs-zOa79%3Bsecret_token%3Ds-zOa79%3Btrack_id%3D431639727


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Lyrics first.

I have a galvanized metal bucket. When I get a line or a verse I write it down and throw it in the bucket.


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## AlBDarned (Jun 29, 2017)

Wardo said:


> Lyrics first.
> 
> I have a galvanized metal bucket. When I get a line or a verse I write it down and throw it in the bucket.


Man, you must have some real corrosive lyrics if you need a galvanized bucket for them.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

mawmow said:


> I guess you mean we should most of the time wash and wax over and over what we are writing, right ?
> Montaigne wrote we should polish more and more...


Thanks for giving me the chance to elucidate that rather cryptic quote, bro. I don't know who originated it.

Here's what I mean (from Wikipedia):

*In a letter to Katkov written in September 1865, Dostoevsky explained to him that the work was to be about a young man who yields to "certain strange, 'unfinished' ideas, yet floating in the air"; he had thus embarked on his plan to explore the moral and psychological dangers of the ideology of "radicalism". In letters written in November 1865 an important conceptual change occurred: the "story" has become a "novel", and from here on all references to Crime and Punishment are to [the] novel*.

So, I am talking about starting from scratch (if necessary!!) to best express the original intent. Dostoevsky's re-writing of _Crime and Punishment_ was my direct inspiration for drastic alterations of song material in order to suit the current purpose.

Thanks again for your attention to my post! Of course I do my share of wax and polish too...


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Don't know.....either way for me. My biggest issue is I have about 25 - 30 ideas on the phone that can be fleshed out into a song one way or other. But most of my stuff right now is geared towards the instrument side, not so much the lyrics/vocals. That's why I'm working on singing right now.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

zontar said:


> No hard & fast rule, some do it one way, some the other--and some mix it up. That is--some songs have words first, some music first. Some guitarists even use other instruments to write the song--and then figure out the guitar parts later. Try it both ways, see what works.
> 
> I've had songs where the lyrics came first--although I had an idea of the music in my head. Sometimes you'll come up with either music or words, and realize it goes well with something you came up with at an earlier time. So try it both ways--and keep it written and/or recorded so you can refer to it later.
> 
> Even if you co-write songs--try it both ways.


Yeah, I'm quoting myself--just to say--kind of cool to get likes on a post almost 10 years old.
And also to say--WHAT?
I've been here that long?


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

The original post was old but "newbies" may discover there some unaging wisdom.
Should we rather bump an old topic with possible new insight or recreate the same old subject ?

@KapnKrunch : I only wanted to make sure I correctly understood your idea (re-work over an over a personal creation vs remodeling someone else's) because I am quite aware I could miss the meaning of some particular English expressions as it is not my mother tongue.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Some songs have famous working titles because they had nonsense lyrics until they were fleshed out, like Scrambled Eggs. Hum your melody, it may suggest something to you. The rhythmic pattern of the melody and shape of the line will match something you want to say.

I find I sometimes hear where a word belongs, or I start mouthing lyrics until they sound cool, then twist them into something coherent.

Like the binder mentioned in a previous post, I have a note on my iPad with a lot of little ideas and word play.

If you have something you want to sing about, a person, a scene or an idea, brain-storming is a great technique, and it can be collaborative. Write down on a piece of paper, not in columns, just a big mess of words, everything you can think of about a subject. You will see connections, rhymes and themes you would not have otherwise found. You can sometimes read your next line right on the page.

For me, quite often, chords, melody and a subject come flowing out all at once.

The latest song idea that I didn’t summarily dismiss is just a title, no music, which is unusual.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

mawmow said:


> The original post was old.


Zombie...I should always check the date before replyng.

I hope the guy figured it out by now.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Well mawmow had a point

I've been on forums where if you start a new thread someone will complain that there is already a thread on it--even if that thread is several years old--the same people will complain if you post to that old thread.

So no complaint from me--just using i as a chance to say--wow--I've been here that long?


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