# Natural Amp-Like Drive Pedal Suggestions



## Dazza (Jan 16, 2011)

I'll start off saying this may be something of a challenge as I'm not a drive pedal fan.

The modern approach to overdrive / distortion is largely pedal based, but I'm old school and simply have never found any coloured box that sounds or feels as good as direct into a Non Master tube amp.

I play backline to a list of tribute acts, using a handwired Marshall 20 watt 2x12. Often with a little push from a Chasetone Secret Preamp and/or MXR microamp for leads. Pedals for textures. Old or old school Fender / Gibsons, low/med output. No high gain. Straight up 60's-70's type sound and playing style using my guitar knobs.

However there's some gigs where I'm flown in and don't take an amp. Relying on a pedal I have an OCD or SparkleDrive remaining from a long list of drive pedals I've tried over the years. Overall I simply don't get along with them and find there's a 'plasticky' fake nature to pedal drive. Obviously it's just me, but being well into my 50's I can't reset my ears and nature.

Can you suggest anything better ? There are ridiculously expensive pedals these days. Normally I spend whatever it costs to achieve what I require, but in this case it'd be rarely used so I'd rather not fork out for something too pricey.

Thanks for any thoughts on what might suit my needs. A simple 'amp-like' drive pedal that's always on. Saying that I'm aware there's literally hundreds, but going by your experience what sounds and feels 'real'.

Daz


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

When you don't take an amp, do you plug straight into the mixing board or what?


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## Dazza (Jan 16, 2011)

tonewoody said:


> When you don't take an amp, do you plug straight into the mixing board or what?


Nope, no direct gear, IEM or digital modelling. Straight up old school: a few pedals and an amp. Backline amps however can be a surprise and inconsistent. A HRD for eg is easy to get along with. A Twin much less so. I repress the memories of playing through a Jazz Chorus and Cyber Twin.

Daz


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I don't know that it *replicates* amp-like-drive, but typically, drives using higher supply voltages allow for greater dynamics. 

Many drive pedals will NOT meet his criterion, even if you stick a higher supply voltage into them. I will put all Tube Screamer workalikes into that category, simply because of certain design properties. But some others will benefit from more juice, assuming they can handle it. 

Tube-based drive pedals can vary in their supply voltages. Some use a "starved-plate" strategy which extract more distortion and more squish by using a noticeably lower supply voltage than what would be found in a tube amp preamp. My gut sense is that they wouldn't do what you want. Some of the EHX tube driver pedals might be okay, since they use a higher supply voltage (>100V), via a transformer trick.

Plenty of pedals claim to be a Marshall-in-a-box, though I have little experience with either them OR dimed Marshalls. Still, the key question is whether the pedal in question aims for replicating the tone of the Marshall preamp section (an easier target), or whether they aim for replicating the tone and feel of the power section.

Undoubtedly, people here will be recommending all sorts of expensive drive pedals. I'm sure they all sound nice, but whether they achieve, or are *necessary *to achieve, what it is you seek, is another matter. For all we know, a bargain basement pedal, fed with 18V (which is actually 17V, but who's counting), and pushed by a cheap 6-band EQ might be EXACTLY the sound you're aiming for.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Buy a current gen modeller in small form factor and put that in your luggage. Then you'll have as close to real amp drive as it's possible to get.


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## Brian Johnston (Feb 24, 2019)

You might want to look into tube-based drives, such as the Parabellum by Night Own Industries. And then you have the pedal-based pre-amps by Victory... Kraken, Countess and Sheriff (the latter is very much Marshall). These things sound super amp-like... I have all three.


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## David Graves (Apr 5, 2017)

I've had a tone of OD pedals. (As I'm sure everyone here has.lol)
None of them have emulated a cranked amp quite like a Thorpy Gunshot. The ability to mix the two drive signals sets it apart from everything else I've tried. If the Plexi tone is what you're chasing.
Amplified Nation Big Bloom is also worth looking at. Completely different tone. But similar idea.


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## Dazza (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks for the input so far.

I've never liked digital modelling though it has come a long way. For convenience sake it can't be beat. I just don't connect with it, literally. As technology progresses I head the opposite direction hehe.

I've had several JMP, JTM and JCM amps over the years, but not much use for them currently, hence the 1973X combo. Even at 18W it gets a click or 2 of attenuation for theater shows.
So Plexi type boxes are what I'd gravitate to, but from what I've experienced so far they tend to be 'too much' distortion and sizzle, then backed off they become anemic. I'm British so Plexi to me is Kossoff / Thin Lizzy etc, not VH. That 'krrang' somewhere between 70's Jimmy Page and Winos Keef as a tonal basis - the chime and grind of a JTM45 is where I base my tone.

The Wampler Plexi Drivel was ok but not convincing. Something similar. Tech 21 Plexi Boost perhaps ?

Daz


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## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

The only pedal at this point that I seem to have hung onto and really like as it adds no unwanted colour ( to my ears) and gives just that bit of a boost / edge is a Dr.Z Z drive. Quite versatile as it has two drives, both adjustable and I leave it as an always on pedal with thr green germanium side and then kick in just a wee bit of hair and volume when I click on the mosfet side.





Dr. Z Amplification | Z-Drive







drzamps.com


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

I have a JHS Charlie Brown that I find is really good.

That said, I remember watching 5 Watt World's "Short history of the Klon" in which he said that when Bill Finnegan first developed his pedal it was because he played a Tele into a cranked up Twin and in most venues wasn't able to turn the volume up. So he developed the pedal to simulate what that tone was. Don't know if it will be what you're looking for but a K-style overdrive might be what the doctor ordered.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

dgreen said:


> The only pedal at this point that I seem to have hung onto and really like as it adds no unwanted colour ( to my ears) and gives just that bit of a boost / edge is a Dr.Z Z drive. Quite versatile as it has two drives, both adjustable and I leave it as an always on pedal with thr green germanium side and then kick in just a wee bit of hair and volume when I click on the mosfet side.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wish I hadn't read this post...


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Dazza said:


> Thanks for the input so far.
> 
> I've never liked digital modelling though it has come a long way. For convenience sake it can't be beat. I just don't connect with it, literally. As technology progresses I head the opposite direction hehe.
> 
> ...


That's unfortunate. An FM3 or Helix stomp is going to get way closer than 99% of pedal options these days (especially since Fractal actually deconstructs an amp to make it as authentic as tech allows). I understand the aversion though.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Here's an idea off the top of my head. Feel free to ignore it.
One of the things that people like about the tone of a non-master power section is that it it warm, keeps the grind, but doesn't have the frizz of preamp overdrive. So what I'm wondering is whether a bit of compression ahead of a drive pedal would keep your tone from passing the grind point into the frizz zone. That's one of the things that compressors can do nicely: yield a more consistent and warmer-sounding overdrive tone. Again, the trick is to nail a degree of compression that simply keeps peaks from going too far, without producing obvious squish.

I'm using Kossoff tone as my benchmark, here.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

Old-school analog? Tech 21 Sansamp, Character Series or Fly Rig might do the trick. They're pretty easy to find used for a good price. V2 Character Series has a speaker sim bypass.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Kingsley pedals? Never owned or played through one but the demos sounds ridiculously good. 
Simon is a killer player too.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

I'm probably in a similar boat in how you approach sound. I do have a lot of pedals but, if I could only have one OD pedal, it would be an old BJFE honey bee. It is the closest I've ever found to behaving like a natural tube amp. Responds very well to picking dynamics and volume roll off. That and a Clinch FX ep-pre and you have a pretty bullet proof base tone all controllable with your own dynamics.


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## ricky_b (Feb 15, 2016)

Snouse BlackBox Overdrive 2. Hard to find but sounds great. I have that on my pedalboard along with a Wampler Tumnus Deluxe. I picked up a cheap EHX Bass Soul Food on whim and was surprised with it. Even though it says "Bass" it sounds great for guitar and has a very useful Blend knob feature that isn't available with the regular Soul Food guitar pedal.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

zztomato said:


> I'm probably in a similar boat in how you approach sound. I do have a lot of pedals but, if I could only have one OD pedal, it would be an old BJFE honey bee. It is the closest I've ever found to behaving like a natural tube amp. Responds very well to picking dynamics and volume roll off. That and a Clinch FX ep-pre and you have a pretty bullet proof base tone all controllable with your own dynamics.


I have an old Bjfe honeybee and agree with this sentiment. its reasonably low gain drive, even when cranked. 
if you want to go the other direction with higher gain I have enjoyed my ethos TWE-1, it’s quite tweakable, but not confusingly so.


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

Dazza said:


> Nope, no direct gear, IEM or digital modelling. Straight up old school: a few pedals and an amp. Backline amps however can be a surprise and inconsistent. A HRD for eg is easy to get along with. A Twin much less so. I repress the memories of playing through a Jazz Chorus and Cyber Twin.
> 
> Daz


Ok, gotcha. My 2 cents.

It probably comes as no surprise to you, the solution is never "one pedal" that magically transforms every amp into something else. That would be cool. Nevertheless, you can tweak the "tone ingredients" to taste more like "home" when you bring the right spices and know a bit about cooking. Fortunately, your tastes are meat, potatoes with gravy. If the backline amp can deliver a decent clean tone, you are most of the way there.
Realistically, it can go both ways with backline amps. Sometimes, you compensate a bit and overcome, others you walk away favorably impressed with an amp that did the job much better than expected.

When your backline amp is a complete unknown, best to pack a couple of drive options. Some pedal/amp combinations just work better, your ears will let you know. The bonus is stacking two different low gain drives can feel more "amp-y". Plus you have the extra flexibility if the situation calls for it. Solo boost etc. It is all in the gain staging. You want to be mindful of not limiting headroom with pedal clipping dirt before your signal hits the amp.

IMO, a hot boosted clean-ish signal pushing the amps input sounds and feels more natural than diode clipping drive pedals trying to be amp-like. In a practical sense, you end up balancing clean db boost with "just enough hair" from the dirt pedals. Gain staging, massaging headroom, finding the sweet spot(s).

"Okay Player" mentioned the Klon, The Klon circuit is worth investigating simply because it is a unique circuit design. Skip the hype, use your ears. The Klon used to be the standard recommendation as a backline life saver by many professionals. YMMV.

I would suggest something like a Trombetta Rotobone / Bone...or similar Bosstone variant (Rockett WTF....) Amp like dynamics with the gain dialed back, great clean to mean response with the guitars volume knob. The Rotobone is considered a fuzz but make no mistake, it is a totally killer overdrive. Not only a worthy backline solution, It might become your favorite drive pedal!


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## superfly (Oct 14, 2021)

^ is pretty much the recipe.

Timmy or similar circuit is worth trying too, stacked or on it's own. The maker of one of it's clones, Jan Ray, has this to say about it: "The Jan Ray was designed to recreate the punchy clear tone of the Blackface Fender amps from the 60’s. So-called the “Fender Magic 6” sound. An easy to handle overdrive keeping the characteristics of the guitar, with great sustain without any unnatural compression."


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Do you like the sound of a Herzog? You could find someone to build a miniature version


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## Dazza (Jan 16, 2011)

Thanks all for the input. Funny enough there's a similar topic I've just seen on TGP with its typical range of responses including insight, opinions, advice and insults. Its more civil here.

I appreciate very little will feel like an actual amp, and each combination of gear has its own results. Never mind personal preferences which overrides everything. In 40 years I've played through all eras of amp and pedals, rack gear, back to amps and pedals, and early modelling. Much of that for a living. As technology advanced I found my happy place in old or old school amps and guitars, with pedals to taste. 60's - 70's JMP / JTM45 gain is as much as I need. Modern gain has no appeal. 

I went through a few pedals recently into my amp set clean. Some work better than others. Stacking definitely sounded better than turning up any given drive. I dug out my old Sansamp GT2 which was bloody awful into the amp hehe. Long ago I used it direct to PA at jams. A different application. I used to carry it around as a back-up DI in case an amp went down. I had a first model OCD 15+ years ago as an always on pedal. It got the free upgrade and I never liked it after and sold it. Now I find the HP/LP switch is too much in either direction, though it may just be the way the modern version sounds. 

There's so much stuff out there and I'm trying to keep things simple. Some are pricey so I'd also considered a lunchbox head. I take a Pedatrain nano in my carry-on, which also contains all I need for the show and travel. Flying out is a rare event thankfully.

Thanks all
Daz


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## amesburymc (May 14, 2006)

RevivalDrive from Origin Effects is another great amp like pedal although it’s more of Fender/Vox/JMP instead of JTM45.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

No love the Xotic BB in the thread? The Blues Breaker. 

Killer jackknife pedal and simple to use. Awesome for dirt into a clean amp, as an overdrive and a go to for stacking drives into it I use it mostly as that on my board but for three songs I reach down and crank the gain up going through the clean channel for some great tones.


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

or cut to the chase and just bring your amp..


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## Dazza (Jan 16, 2011)

tonewoody said:


> or cut to the chase and just bring your amp..


Hehe yep I never considered cramming my 2x12 combo into the plane's overhead bin. Not sure it'd fit under the seat.

Daz


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

Dazza said:


> Hehe yep I never considered cramming my 2x12 combo into the plane's overhead bin. Not sure it'd fit under the seat.
> 
> Daz


Buy it a seat....


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

tdotrob said:


> No love the Xotic BB in the thread? The Blues Breaker.
> 
> Killer jackknife pedal and simple to use. Awesome for dirt into a clean amp, as an overdrive and a go to for stacking drives into it I use it mostly as that on my board but for three songs I reach down and crank the gain up going through the clean channel for some great tones.


I'm pretty sure the BB isn't a Bluesbreaker. Great pedal nonetheless.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

If this schematic is accurate, it is a Tube Screamer with separate bass and treble controls instead of the standard TS-9 tone control.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Okay Player said:


> I'm pretty sure the BB isn't a Bluesbreaker. Great pedal nonetheless.


Weird right? Lots of websites say it stands for Bluesbreaker, one says it stands for big British.

I found 20 videos that are titles bluesbreaker pedal shootout that include the BB. 

Either way for me it is an always on pedal on my board cause it adds that something I like at the end of my pedal chain.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

@Dazza I don’t know if anyone said it already or not, but do you set you pedals with the volume down and the drive up By chance?
if so, try turning the amp down a bit, turn the pedal volume up and the drive down.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

RBlakeney said:


> @Dazza I don’t know if anyone said it already or not, but do you set you pedals with the volume down and the drive up By chance?
> if so, try turning the amp down a bit, turn the pedal volume up and the drive down.


Sage advice. What many think of as "amp-like drive" is the *cumulative* effect of a bit of gain here, a bit of gain there. Diming a pedal earlier in the chain effectively overrides whatever later devices/stages could contribute.


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## Dazza (Jan 16, 2011)

RBlakeney said:


> @Dazza I don’t know if anyone said it already or not, but do you set you pedals with the volume down and the drive up By chance?
> if so, try turning the amp down a bit, turn the pedal volume up and the drive down.


I never use any drive pedals as such. Whatever amp it's the main drive with pedals for colours. Over the years boosts have been old 808,TS9, Micro Amp, Sparkledrive or '69 depending on the gig / material. I've always used attenuation with NM amps and/or the drive channel. Even getting decent tones from HRD using either method. (The VIII has a much improved drive channel). So this puts me at a disadvantage because I'm old school in both sound and approach. I'm simply not accustomed to the sound and feel of pedal drives as players commonly are now. I don't play in a bedroom or have a home recording set up. Playing 30 + years as a living this way it's difficult now adjusting my ears to what I determine typically as a boxy, fizzy, compressed pedals by comparison. For eg owning several JMP / JTM amps MIAB type pedals tend to sound more like hot rodded 80's metal. I'll no doubt have to compromise hehe. I've an OCD for fly in shows, I'm just seeing how I could possibly improve on it. My criteria is for these infrequent uses only. I take 1 carry on bag for everything including a Pedaltrain Nano. I've no intention of revamping my typical set up otherwise I'd happily fork out for something like a Kingsley for eg.

Some suggestions in this thread I'm not aware of, others more familiar.
Thanks all for the continued input.
Daz


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