# Need help with a solution for stage mix



## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

My band did a gig last Saturday in a small local bar. The stage measures 7 x 11 ft, onto which we shoe-horned a four piece band (guitar, bass, drums, keys). The space constraints dictated the locations of the bass combo (right beside the keyboard player) and the keyboard players amp, which he uses to monitor his keys and vocals. The problem was the level the keyboard player needed to hear himself over the bass amp was too loud for the rest of us to hear our own vocal monitors.

We use a compact Yamaha PA, which has the amp and mixer integrated into one of the speakers. 
The audience found the front of house mix balanced and at an acceptable volume. 

We are seeking a reasonably priced solution to overcome this kind of stage volume conflict. We would prefer a moderate stage volume. 
Part of the problem with a tiny stage is limited options for placing gear.

One option I can imagine would involve sending all vocals and instruments (mic'd where required) into a mixer to drive stage monitors, with outs to the FOH. 

Looking for input on what works for you guys.

Is it preferable to have powered monitors or powered mixer for the stage mix? 
Would a stage PA require less power than FOH? 
Is there an integrated PA that accommodates all of the above?


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

My first thought was have the keyboard player wear in-ears. Is there a line or headphone out of the keyboard amp?


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

or all switch to IEM's...
the other option is to DI the bass altogether


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Does the bass need to be that loud? If not, the simplest solution is to turn it down. Make sure that your bass player and keyboard player are positioned with their ears in direct line with their respective speakers - often amps get turned up louder than necessary because they are pointed at the wrong people.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

I use a SansAmp bass DI straight into the board. I found that when I used an amp it was always aimed at the back of my knees. This way I'm just in the mix. Honestly most of the time I hardly even need to be in the monitors since I can hear myself from the mains. The drummer likes to have more of me in his monitor than I need in my own.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

The worst case I've heard of the bass being too loud was a few years ago when I went out to hear a friend's band play in a similar situation as yours. The bass was loud and booming and actually hurt our ears in the audience. The only time he turned the bass down to a reasonable level was when he was singing a song. Not sure what that was about but the loud bass volume ruined their sound. Your wise to try and get a handle on it and correct the situation.


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

In our case the bass level was fine for the audience - it's just the stage mix we were grappling with. The size of the stage was the constraint for placing the gear. 
My hunch is that all the volume levels need to come down, but we need a way to provide the right mixes for the stage and FOH, which I expect will tend to be different.
I looking for advice how to make that happen.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Not an easy problem to solve, given the tight quarters. In a situation like that it is almost impossible to separate "stage sound" from "front of house sound" (unless you go IEM, as has been suggested), so any solution is going to have to keep that in mind. The key is to think of the sound produced from all of your instruments/amps/monitors/and front speakers as "house sound".


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

JHarasym said:


> In our case the bass level was fine for the audience - it's just the stage mix we were grappling with. The size of the stage was the constraint for placing the gear.
> My hunch is that all the volume levels need to come down, but we need a way to provide the right mixes for the stage and FOH, which I expect will tend to be different.
> I looking for advice how to make that happen.


The answers are above. Scroll up.... ^^^^


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

In my experience, bass guitar is most often the problem when it comes to volume. IEMs are the best way to get the stage volume down IMO.


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

Thinking of a personal monitor mixer like this : http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=9782
Allows the individual to control the level of their own vocal in their monitor mix. Out to a speaker or IEM.


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

JHarasym,

Yours is a common dilemma and one we faced with our group. We are a 5-piece ( 2 guitars, bass, electronic drums and vocalist) and we also wanted to keep the size and amount of our gear to a minimum. Wireless in-ear monitors was too big of an expense for everyone to even consider so I took it upon myself to put together a compact, powerful stage system that would fit into two vehicles (my MINI Cooper S and one other band members SUV). I also run our mix from stage so I started with a Line6 wireless unit for me so I could wander out front once in a while to check the FOH mix. Our mains are comprised of a Presonus 16.0.2 board into two QSC K12s and a single small Yorkville powered sub on my side of the stage (opposite our bass player). We use 3 Yamaha MSR400 powered wedges for monitors and the drummer has a small powered monitor on a mic stand. Everything except the bass guitar goes direct into the board. I don't even use a guitar amp on stage, going into a Kemper Profiling Amp which comes back through the monitors. The Presonus board has 4 aux mixes that can be used for Each of the monitors. This makes our lead vocalist very happy as she can be as loud as she likes in her own monitor  the Presonus board is digital and has a nice feature which allows you to save each mix you use. So once I get a good mix for a venue, I can recall it if we play there again. 

Bass volume on stage is always going to be an issue because the wave length of the bass signal is so long, the volume usually peaks way out in front of the stage. During sound check, I walk out on the dance floor and tell the bass player when he is sitting well in the mix. He trusts me enough to not turn it up any more, even though it is usually not loud enough for him on stage. Having a digital drum kit really helps a lot as well in keeping a manageable stage volume. 

We have played on some pretty small stages and this system has really worked well for us. Our stage volume is very good and everyone in the band is really pleased with the levels. FOH can be as loud as is required based on the size of the venue. We have played several outdoor gigs and volume has never been an issue with this rig. The k12s are rated at 1000 watts peak so have plenty of oomph. This whole system, board, mains and monitors set me back about $4000 and I am very happy with the quality, portability and functionality of it. Hope this helps.

Don


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## Slowfinger (Jan 1, 2011)

No budget? You could tip the amps back so they point up at the players and save chopping heads in the front row. One player we know in a house band liked it so loud they eventually set his amp sidestage pointing across stage at him resulting in far better foh mix. In my jam room, if a guitarist simply can't turn down I put his amp up on top of a dresser at his head level and let his ears bleed. LOL. That get's the point across.
Bruce


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