# So Paypal now wants my Photo ID and Bill Statments!!!



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Just went to send money via paypal and couldn't. It seems they want to "verify" my account and require photo id and a bill statement with my address. I called their customer service, they opened by thanking me for holding an account since 2001, and then were incredibly rude, condescending, and unable to answer my questions.

Q: "Why do you need this info?"
A: "To verify your account"

Q: "But you just thanked me for 16 years of patronage, what are you trying to verify and why now"
A: "Things change, we need the info"

Q: "What changed"
A: "Federal Laws"

Q: "Canadian Laws? Which law?"
A: "The Law"

Q: "What is the name of the specific law or piece of legislation that requires you to have this info. I think you are just data mining. Tell me the exact law/legislation so that I can "verify" your claim."
A: "I don't know. It just changed. I don't know"

Q: "There is no way I am giving you this info. I've been with you for 16 years, you cannot even tell me why you need this info, and you have been incredibly rude. I am going to close my account, I am done."
A: "You cannot close your account because it has a restriction on it!"


At this point I become irate. From the start, the woman on the phone kept cutting me off, shouting me down (long before I raised my voice), and basically said "we don't care" when I threatened to leave; she quickly followed with, "you cannot leave."

Conveniently, I can still buy stuff from online stores and even accept money into my account. I cannot, however, withdraw that money to my bank account or send money to non-businesses.

I'm at a loss for words. Has anyone else experienced this?

TG


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

No...But that is best thread I have read in awhile.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Not with Paypal, but I had my facebook mobile app randomly shut down with a "session expired" message (WTF) and then a request for government ID to verify my account.

I have no idea why the hell social media would require government ID. It really shouldn't.


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

Wow. Just wow man. No words....why do I feel Trump is behind this?


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

Budda said:


> Not with Paypal, but I had my facebook mobile app randomly shut down with a "session expired" message (WTF) and then a request for government ID to verify my account.
> 
> I have no idea why the hell social media would require government ID. It really shouldn't.


Did you give it up to get access back?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I used my health card, and also used the website version as we were on tour. I got an email two days later saying thanks and everything is fine. I did file a complaint with their support service asking why they required the information in the first place. I have no idea where it goes, a Google search didn't show anything explaining it... I don't like it.

I would probably delete facebook if it weren't so damn necessary to help push the band. I'm sure I could recover my Skype password to keep in touch with my parents.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

It's probably the US Fed, and doesn't matter that you're Canadian as it's where _they_ are based, not where you are.

I work for a large lender. The amount of hoops we have to go through these days to satisfy legislators is extremely ridiculous and burdensome. Our organization has spent tens of millions of unexpected expense (NOT FINES) hiring lawyers and trainers all about compliance....mostly to do with the American Dodd Frank legislation, which came about as a result of the financial crisis but has been slow rolling out and rolled out in stages. Some of the bodies created under DF have not guidelines and can arbitrarily impose penalties, without recourse/ability to appeal. That's just out of control bureaucracy. And very scary for us.

As to Trump, he wants to get rid of a bunch of this garbage, not make it worse.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Wasn't the Dodd Frank legislastion enacted after the '08 financial meltdown?


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

yes after and as a result of, but well after before it was enacted, and parts of it still haven't rolled out as it has been coming out in stages or pieces. 99.9% of the regulations have nothing to do with what caused the crisis. There are some useful pieces in it, very few would argue. But they have created huge burdens on smaller (relatively speaking) institutions (like the one I work for, or say a place like PayPal) that could never on their own create any kind of systemic meltdown.

We also have to have picture ID on file for any deal we have done. It's all about fraud prevention.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Damn. I guess I should enjoy my last 10 months at GC. If I have to go through that to pay my $15 yearly fee, the CBA will tip the other way.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Probably a US thing to catch or prevent "illegals" from transferring money home using PP


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

@traynor_garnet 

Was this purchase within Canada, or for something from the US?


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

It's so bad we can't even SELL a piece of equipment (repo or off lease) in Canada or the US without running the buyers name thru a tool that cross checks with the US Fed (and it cross checks Canadian records in my case) for links to money laundering, terrorism, and other types of potential criminal activity. You can imagine me trying to explain this to some small town farmer or acreage owner that wants to buy a used baler or tractor or whatever. Their reaction is occasionally much like TG's.

Every credit application, for every lender US or Canada, is run thru the same type of background check, so if you've applied for a loan lease mortgage credit card or anything with any substantial financial institution in the past couple of years, you've been vetted if you were approved, though you likely didn't know it.

It has nothing specifically to do with 'sending money back home' unless they get a hit as noted above for some form of illicit activity. If they do, funds are instantly frozen pending investigation, and potentially forfeit.

So, TG, I'd say there's almost no chance it's data mining, just PayPal complying with federal legislation that is indeed fairly recent. Financial institutions are still trying to wrap their heads around what they need to do to be in compliance, it's very complex and not black and white. We'll undoubtedly hear more similar stories.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

sulphur said:


> @traynor_garnet
> 
> Was this purchase within Canada, or for something from the US?



I didn't do anything and haven't used my account for awhile. I logged in to send money and was greeted with this bizarre problem.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Big brother is watching you or it's pure bullshit!

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man.

You have entered the Twilight Zone!


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

I've been "verified" with paypal for years...is this some new thing?

maybe you just never got verifed?


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

So,..... Why do they want photo ID, online, for a person they cannot see to verify the photo is of the same person presenting it?


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

That's unfortunate. I hope I don't have to go through the same, but I _do_ love yelling at rude people on the phone. I make it weird.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Voxguy76 said:


> Wow. Just wow man. No words....why do I feel Trump is behind this?


Nah, it sure is Putin or the Russian ambassador


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

bolero said:


> I've been "verified" with paypal for years...is this some new thing?
> 
> maybe you just never got verifed?


Nope, I've been verified for years. I've had the same account since 2001.

To top it off, my amp finally sold and now I have cash I my account that I cannot withdraw until I give the info. I am seriously considering contacting a media outlet as it I surely a juicy story for them and will resonate with their audience. PayPal completely dismissed me, but maybe if the press starts asking . . .


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I've never heard of the photo ID thing. That has to be new.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> Nope, I've been verified for years. I've had the same account since 2001.
> 
> To top it off, my amp finally sold and now I have cash I my account that I cannot withdraw until I give the info. I am seriously considering contacting a media outlet as it I surely a juicy story for them and will resonate with their audience. PayPal completely dismissed me, but maybe if the press starts asking . . .



Media won't be interested. I explained it all in my 3 posts above. Paypal has no choice, its US federal regs. OK the rudeness isn't federal regs, but the lawyers are probably the ones who are even close to having a handle on what they're dealing with, I wouldn't get too upset with a clerk over their lack of knowledge of the law.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Judgiong by the tone of the person on the other end of the phone, it sounds like many of the other sorts of phishing scams that bully people into providing information that can then be used to engage in theft; first identity, and then money.

Think of it, what ID would a person have that also has their photo on it? Not your Starbucks or Subway loyalty card. It will be something that also has other protected information on it, like a health card or driver's license. That information can then be leveraged to eventually gain access to other financial information, and eventually your money or charge account.

Now that you remind me, I received a call recently, at 4:30AM from someone purporting to be from VISA or the bank where I hold the VISA card, telling me that my card had been used to make unauthorized purchases, and the fellow (who had a clear Indian accent) was insisting that I check my wallet to verify if my card was still in my possession. The next question was going to be that I read the 3-character authorization code from it. Because it was so damn early and he woke me from a deep sleep, in my stupor I almost complied. Fortunately, my wallet was not in my pants where I normally keep it, so the moment of "Hmm, where IS my wallet?" was enough to wake me up and think that this was not at all something a bank would do. I went back to the phone and told the guy he had called me too early and would need to call back at another time, then hung up. I checked with the bank where I have the VISA account a day or two later and they indicated there had not been any purchases at all on my card.

This is a scam in keeping with the times. Someone adopts the identity via phone or e-mail of some source one is likely to interact with, whose ways are mysterious, and whom one may well have interacted with recently. So, another person left a threatening phone message that I owed CRA money and that they would "get me arrested" (not "have me arrested" which is what someone in Canada, regardless of accent, would have said), and that I was to contact them immediately or else charges would be pressed. If, in one's panic, you didn't think too deeply, or know very much, about how CRA operates and is legally obliged to operate, you might respond to that call. Similarly, I've received a variety of e-mails informing me of some shipping issue with FedEx, UPS, or other recognizable shippers, and the invoice was in a zip-file. Now, why on earth would they send an e-mail without information related to the actual shipping request visible to the recipient? And why the hell would they need to compress a file that is 1.5k in zipform? What would it conceivably be unzipped? Maybe 15k at most? The whole thing smells, but has that faint ring of plausibility. And if the victim doesn't stop to think (and 1 in every thousand or so won't), the thief gets something from you.

Bottom line: Pay-Pal doesn't want or need your photo ID. A theft ring somewhere does, however.


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## Woof (Jan 13, 2010)

Didn't the OP say it all started on the Paypal website? 
I just sent some $ moments ago via Paypal without issue. I hope it's not an issue for the receiver.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

traynor_garnet said:


> Nope, I've been verified for years. I've had the same account since 2001.
> 
> To top it off, my amp finally sold and now I have cash I my account that I cannot withdraw until I give the info. I am seriously considering contacting a media outlet as it I surely a juicy story for them and will resonate with their audience. PayPal completely dismissed me, but maybe if the press starts asking . . .



A lawyer looking for a juicy class action suit would be a good idea too.

Best thing you can do is spend the money on other stuff you want. That way you get it out of your account.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

It's not a phishing scam. I was in my own account, of my own accord, without following any links.

TG


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Hey Mark...he called them, not vice versa. Once again, read my posts in this thread and you will find that it is the American Dodd Frank legislation causing this.

Just a thought, for anyone who thinks PayPal isn't a financial institution, because they aren't a lender...sorry, wrong. Same way Western Union and any institution that has funds passing through their hands is considered a financial institution, especially for the purposes I've outlined earlier. They don't have to have a loan or bond or whatever other financial instrument portfolio to be considered a financial institution.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

greco said:


> No...But that is best thread I have read in awhile.


Then give him a "like", you stingy bastard.
Lol


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Voxguy76 said:


> Wow. Just wow man. No words....why do I feel Trump is behind this?


Because you've been brainwashed by the liberal media?
What would Trump have to do with PayPal nonsense?


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## Woof (Jan 13, 2010)

I thought Trump wants to reverse/rollback or at least scale back the Dodd-Frank Act as part of his chipping away at the banking regulations.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

That's nothing. In 10 years at most, they will also want your fingerprints, a retinal scan, a urine, a fecal and a DNA sample.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Woof said:


> I thought Trump wants to reverse/rollback or at least scale back the Dodd-Frank Act as part of his chipping away at the banking regulations.


Scale back yes, eliminate no. Again, there are good and effective tools within DF, virtually everyone agrees. But a very large chunk of it is useless, burdensome, and benefits nobody but the bureaucrats.

Trump's stated goal with respect to regulation across all spectrums where such a word would be used (so, not just the financial industry), is that for every new regulation, two have to go away.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

How much you want to bet that this topic, Paypal in particular, is not even on the radar for deregulation.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> Nope, I've been verified for years. I've had the same account since 2001.
> 
> To top it off, my amp finally sold and now I have cash I my account that I cannot withdraw until I give the info. I am seriously considering contacting a media outlet as it I surely a juicy story for them and will resonate with their audience. PayPal completely dismissed me, but maybe if the press starts asking . . .


 well...you could always "accidentally" send them a pic of your bare ass...


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

@traynor_garnet Had you jumped through the first couple paypal hoops before you encountered this one? The first one hits when you reach approx. $2000 spent. The next one is at approx. $5000 spent. They put a small deposit into either your bank account or credit card, and you have to tell them how much it was.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I wouldn't put it past them to demand an anal scan.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

This is one reason I have never and will never have a paypal account. They probably don't care and neither do I. 
Having said that if the OP sends them a photo ID to verify him self how does that verify anything unless they had a photo of you on file to compare it to?


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

So everyone, check your user agreement and you will find this:

_*2.3 Identity Authentication.* You authorize PayPal, directly or through third parties, to make any inquiries we consider necessary to validate your identity. This may include asking you for further information that will allow us to reasonably identify you, requiring you to take steps to confirm ownership of your email address or financial instruments, ordering a credit report, or verifying your Information against third party databases or through other sources. We may also ask to see your driver’s licence or other identifying documents at any time. If you use certain Services, we may have a legal requirement to verify some of your information. PayPal reserves the right to close, suspend, or limit access to your Account and/or the Services in the event we are unable to obtain or verify this information.
_
I don't even know what to do at this point. They won't tell me why my account was targeted for verification, they have no idea what I look like so photo ID is no way to verify who I am, and they also let money into the account yesterday even though they had placed a limitation on it. They took their service fee, of course, without issue or question. If all this "validation" is done because they think illegal or criminal funds are entering my account, taking part of that money for themselves puts them in a very sticky situation.

Keto, I cannot find anything on Paypal's site that makes mention of what you are talking about. The best I could find was something pertaining to accounts that originate in Singapore.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Meh, they can have what they want. You can't beat PayPal when you find a screaming deal in the US and buddy or a business won't deal/ship outside the US. Between PayPal and my border broker I can get whatever I want with a minimum of hasssle.


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## Pewtershmit (Jun 13, 2014)

Used to work for eBay / PayPal 

This is pretty standard, the reason being they use it to verify newly created accounts that have identifying marks that point to fraud. An old established account with those marks will get flagged for the same thing as scammers are smarter now and try to take over an old account. They want to verify your in control of your account. Funky IP addresses, password changes... changes in buying / selling behaviors ...common flags.

If don't like it don't use their service.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Pewtershmit said:


> Used to work for eBay / PayPal
> 
> If don't like it don't use their service.


That would be all good and well, except they let money go into an account they limited, took their cut, and won't let me access the funds or close the account. IOW, I don't have the option to NOT use there service unless I am willing to walk away from the $600 they have tied up. I cannot even refund the money to the seller and ask for payment using another means because, you guessed it, I cannot refund due to the restrictions they placed on my account.

I still have yet to hear an explanation of what photo ID will prove. They don't know me, I'm not showing them in person, and therefore a picture doesn't verify anything. 

This is beyond frustrating. You want to verify something? Send a form directly to my house address via snail mail. It will come to my house, I can sign it and return it, and we are good. 

TG


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

But someone who has hijacked your account likely won't come up with a piece of picture ID. Doing as they ask satisfies them -yeah it's not in person, but still, it does - and you get your money.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Well, I had no choice but to do it or walk away from the money. I did "accidentally" have my thumb over part of my driver's license number but they accepted it and restored my account in less than 24 hours. 

It still REALLY burns me that they let the money go in and instantly collected their service fee, knowing the money was held at their whim. Their concern over fraud and terrorism doesn't seem to trump or extend to their ability to collect.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

keto said:


> But someone who has hijacked your account likely won't come up with a piece of picture ID.


I am not a fan of real life security theatre (like US airport security checks and, apparently, PayPal security checks) or stupid behaviours, so I am not getting it ... why wouldn't an account hijacker some up with a fake picture ID? It couldn't at all be verified as fake without the real person (which still has its own issues), so why not just send some random picture ID with more or less correct name on it?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Wow. I was dead certain it was a scam on someone else's part. Of course I never pondered the possibility that Paypal would be attempting to assure themselves of the absence of a scam on a _customer's_ part, as Pewterschmit described. Though I suppose, in this day and age, the possibilities for even large companies to be scammed by thieves who pretend to be what they are not is greater than ever before.

I remember some 18 years back, hiring a grad student for a summer position. He was born in Viet Nam and had the misfortune of having the same name and being born around the same time, as another guy from Viet Nam with a long list of "priors". Took an unexpectedly long time for the RCMP to differentiate our guy from the other guy and give him security clearance. The kid is as honest as the day is long, and has been a full-time employee since then, but the folks who check up on this stuff never really speak to individuals face-to-face. They're stuck with processing cases on the basis of data provided, which I suppose explains their bizarre requests. It also explains why so many folks DO fall for actual scammers.


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## fretzel (Aug 8, 2014)

PayPal's Requests for Personal Information - PayPal Community


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

So, I use PayPal so infrequently, and almost exclusively for purchasing. I practically have to reset my password every time because it is so long in between transactions that I usually forget it. Anyhow, is this now a blanket policy that all PP user must submit in order to withdraw funds?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Check out the explanation that Fretzel links to. I think you're in the clear.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

I for one welcome our PayPal overlords!


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

LexxM3 said:


> I am not a fan of real life security theatre (like US airport security checks and, apparently, PayPal security checks) or stupid behaviours, so I am not getting it ... why wouldn't an account hijacker some up with a fake picture ID? It couldn't at all be verified as fake without the real person (which still has its own issues), so why not just send some random picture ID with more or less correct name on it?


Possible. But just not as likely, most scammers aren't *that* sophisticated. Some but not most. But we've all heard of identity theft these days, so we're reluctant to give our ID to anyone, even a for real large secure institution. Somewhere there's a solution, and somewhere there's a hacker who's going to pervert that too. Ya takes yer chances when ya plays the game. Or you go off the grid.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

fretzel said:


> PayPal's Requests for Personal Information - PayPal Community


And there you have it, 100% explained as I posted earlier in the thread. Regulation & compliance, mmmmmmm yummy. Get ready for more of same in your life.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

You should've told them that this is no way to treat a Nigerian prince.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

sulphur said:


> You should've told them that this is no way to treat a Nigerian prince.


Thanks for my laugh for the day!


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