# Oiling Maple Fretboards



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Never owned any maple fretboards before. Have two now. I know all the trade secrets for rosewood and ebony. Do the same apply for maple boards?


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

I've never oiled up a maple fretboard - a little cleaner spray, sure - but I'd never bust out anything oil based (lemon oil, etc...) I know my bottle of PRS fretboard conditioner clearly states not for maple fretboards.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

no.
maple 'boards are finished,All I've ever used was a damp rag


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

Not all maple boards are finished. Case in point: The Ernie Ball axis. I'm sure there are others. The Ernie Ball guitars use tru-oil I believe. 


All of my Maple board guitars have a coat of schellac to act as a sealer coat and tung oil over that. After that, every restring gets a cleanup and lemon oil or some tung oil if I feel that the board needs it.

This one has a coat of schellac sealer and would be cleaned off with lemon oil (or any mineral oil, really). Every 6 to 12 months, I'd re-apply some tung oil, depending on how much the guitar is played.

DSCF5563 by lydian2012, on Flickr

This one, another one of my builds, is strictly tung oil over a shellac sealer coat and cleaning with lemon oil would be sufficient, as stated above, with some tung oil re-applied at regular intervals:


100_7534 by lydian2012, on Flickr


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Maple finished in lacquer or poly = no oil, any raw or oil finished board = more oil.

Lydian, nice decal on your headstock, is that from J. Bennett?


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

Jimmy_D said:


> Lydian, nice decal on your headstock, is that from J. Bennett?


Yes it is but I've since switched over to my own logo and a different decal type. The flame blue is the last guitar I've made with that decal and headstock shape.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

By nature, maple seems less oily than woods like ebony or rosewood, so oiling it seems to defeat the purpose. Plus, IME it just doesn't take oil as well as the others.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Did my maple neck in tru-oil. How long ago was that? Anyways, the wood is sealed, the pores are filled with gun stock oil that hardens, what more does it need? Feels nice and I just clean it at string changes with guitar polish.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I use this on all my boards, no matter what...
http://www.gorgomyte.com/Purpose2.html

I've done a few guitars with it so far, 
fast, easy to use and you won't believe the crap it pulls off the board and frets.
You cut a small chunk off and clean the board and frets.
It's pretty black by the end, but the frets are gleaming and the board is clean and supposedly conditioned.


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

Diablo said:


> By nature, maple seems less oily than woods like ebony or rosewood


Ebony isn't a very oily wood. Rosewood woods are, especially Cocobolo. The less oily the wood, the more it will absorb it IME.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

I've been using the gorgomyte on all my Boards. Works well.


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

Jimmy_D said:


> Maple finished in lacquer or poly = no oil, any raw or oil finished board = more oil.



question:
is baked maple any differnt? how do you maintain it? does it need to be oiled?


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

I don't even clean maple boards, they sound better when with years of dead skin and sweat built up on them.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Sealed maple fretboards dont need no oilin'.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

IMHO.......maple is a very "dry" wood, contains no natural oils at all (or very little). This makes maple absorb all the moister/humidity/grime it can get, while rosewood repels most of that stuff. That's why maple finger boards are normally well sealed with lacquer or poly. I like the satin finish better than the gloss.


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## dmc69 (Jan 20, 2011)

Chitmo said:


> I don't even clean maple boards, they sound better when with years of dead skin and sweat built up on them.


Remind me to never buy a maple necked guitar from you!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Chitmo said:


> I don't even clean maple boards, they sound better when with years of dead skin and sweat built up on them.


I think you're joshin' us.:smile-new:


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

LydianGuitars said:


> *All of my Maple board guitars have a coat of schellac to act as a sealer coat and tung oil over that*. After that, every restring gets a cleanup and lemon oil or some tung oil if I feel that the board needs it.


so somehow, the oil gets in and out past the shellac sealer? in the amount of time it takes to go through a set of strings ? i wonder if david copperfield knows about this? surely it's magic


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

cheezyridr said:


> so somehow, the oil gets in and out past the shellac sealer? in the amount of time it takes to go through a set of strings ? i wonder if david copperfield knows about this? surely it's magic


Agreed... tung oil over shellac is improper.


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

cheezyridr said:


> so somehow, the oil gets in and out past the shellac sealer?


 *I don't understand what you mean by this. Who said that "the oil gets in and out"? 
*


cheezyridr said:


> in the amount of time it takes to go through a set of strings ? i wonder if david copperfield knows about this? surely it's magic



The schellac is very thin and because maple is so dense, the amount that gets absorbed is small. Depending on the piece of wood, the absorption level varies. The idea is to have some level of protection. As the surface wears and get dirty, mineral oil helps in getting the surface clean again. The're no magic about it. Sometimes, I might complete it with tung oil to get a nice sheen on the fretboard and that has the added benefit of adding another layer of protection. It really depends on the board, look, and wear.

- - - Updated - - -



ezcomes said:


> question:
> is baked maple any differnt? how do you maintain it? does it need to be oiled?


I treat my baked maple boards like rosewood. Mineral oil works well.


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

dradlin said:


> Agreed... tung oil over shellac is improper.


How so? Shellac gives maple a very nice colour and helps in sealing the exposed wood. I use the schellac like a french polish on the back of some necks and on those, I'll typically give the fretboard one or two coats. I find that this works well on my flame and birsdeye maple boards. Is it absolutely necessary? No. Besides, this is only for new builds, not for maintenance. I started doing this 3 years ago and since I visited Sergei De Jonge 2 years ago, I learned a little more about the process and refined my technique and application. French Polishing is great on electric necks IMO, but I digress.

The tung oil is what I would use for maintenance, only if the board looks like it needs it. Of course, I'm referring to non-lacquered / poly'd boards here. You could also just use Mineral oil but because of its viscosity, it has a tendency to stay on top of unfinished maple but works very well to clean a board. Lemon oil is pretty much the same thing as mineral oil BTW.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

LydianGuitars said:


> How so?


Tung oil is a penetrating oil that soaks into the wood and cures in the wood. It is not a surface finish and does not build a film thickness. To seal the wood with shellac prevents oil penetration and defeats the purpose of the penetrating oil. Loose the shellac in your process... or stick with french polish/shellac, but don't mix the two.


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

dradlin said:


> Tung oil is a penetrating oil that soaks into the wood and cures in the wood. It is not a surface finish and does not build a film thickness. To seal the wood with shellac prevents oil penetration and defeats the purpose of the penetrating oil. Loose the shellac in your process...


Modern Tung Oil finish does in fact form a film that can be built up to some degree (not referring to Pure Tung Oil here). Of course, the first coat will get absorbed by raw wood but as you apply more coats of it, a protective film does get built up. Applying a sealer of of schellac (or diluted lacquer) before tung oil is actually quite common in woodworking.

I've been using Tung Oil in my woodworking projects for over 20years, even on kitchen cabinets. its is actually quite a nice finish.

The resulting cured Tung Oil finish is quite resistant, impervious to water, alcohol, acids and ages nicely in terms of colour. Why use schellac 1st on raw wood? It penetrates better, that's all. Each his own though. It seems like every woodworker has his/her techniques that work for them. I've done a LOT of experimentation, some with good results and some that failed. 

I you play your guitar a lot and have a non-lacquered maple board, a coat a tung oil is, in my opinion, a nice way to refresh your board and give it back a bit of protection.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

LydianGuitars said:


> Modern Tung Oil finish does in fact form a film that can be built up to some degree. Of course, the first coat will get absorbed by raw wood but as you apply more coats of it, a protective film does get built up.
> I've been using Tung Oil in my woodworking projects for over 20years, even on kitchen cabinets. its is actually quite a nice finish.
> 
> The resulting cured Tung Oil finish is quite resistant, impervious to water, alcohol, acids and ages nicely in terms of colour. Why use schellac 1st on raw wood? It penetrates better better, that's all. Each his own though. It seems like every woodworker has his/her techniques that work for them. I've done a LOT of experimentation, some with good results and some that failed.
> ...


We will have to agree to disagree....


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

the way it's written, i thought you use the tung oil to treat the board, as some might to an ebony board, like what the o/p initially asked about. used that way the oil would have to get past the shellac 2 times in order to be effective. that's what i meant by magic. although now it sounds like you are just greasing the board like you might a cast iron pan. to make it non stick. i'm sure it works as intended but i'd rather just skip the unnecessary step, while avoiding the spread of oily finger print smears. ymmv


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

cheezyridr said:


> the way it's written, i thought you use the tung oil to treat the board, as some might to an ebony board, like what the o/p initially asked about. used that way the oil would have to get past the shellac 2 times in order to be effective. that's what i meant by magic. although now it sounds like you are just greasing the board like you might a cast iron pan. to make it non stick. i'm sure it works as intended but i'd rather just skip the unnecessary step, while avoiding the spread of oily finger print smears. ymmv


Grease an iron pan? LOL. 

No. The mineral/lemon oil is only used to clean the board and help with the surface of the wood (provides some level of protection against water/alcohol/acids). Its completely wiped off after its applied, the same way you would an on ebony or rosewood board. I have an article that shows a rosewood board that was never treated and actually got to the point where it was too dry and the grain was popping up. So even if Rosewood is considered an "oily" wood, treating it is very important.

With tung oil, it dries so your fingers would not get sticky. The downside to tung oil is that you have to wait approx 24hrs before re-stringing.

The sealing of the wood with schellac (or anything else you'd like to use as a sealer) is to minimize wood movement from changes in relative humidity.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

It is quite common in woodworking to use shellac as a blotch control layer before staining wood. Also used to grain fill.

I am going to assume that the tung oil is polymerized so it cures.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Jim DaddyO said:


> It is quite common in woodworking to use shellac as a blotch control layer before staining wood. Also used to grain fill.
> 
> I am going to assume that the tung oil is polymerized so it cures.


A very diluted wash coat of shellac might be used as a stain conditioner, but more often one would shellac over stain as a top coat finish rather under it. It depends on the type of stain too (surface or penetrating). 

Shellac doesn't have solids content and is not suitable for grain filling.

Shellac is used as a sealer, a barrier coat (between usually incompatible finishes), and a top coat finish (brush, spray, or french polish).

Shellac is an "old-school" finish and not is durable as a top coat in a "high traffic" application, and has poor moisture, chemical, and alcohol resistance. There are reasons that it has been surpassed by many modern finishes.

Mineral oil is used as a lubricant in the process of french polishing, but mineral (or any other oil) is not used as a top coat over french polish (shellac).

Tung oil, whether traditional or polymerized, should never be left as a wet film thickness or to pool - it will get sticky. It cures very slowly (weeks). It is intended to penetrate the wood, is built slow with many coat applications, and buffed out each time. It requires regular replenishing, and is not moisture, chemical, or alcohol resistance. It has its applications and can produce beautiful results, though is often misunderstood and misapplied.


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

I should never have mentioned the Schellac. Sorry to the OP about this as this thread is now officially derailed.



dradlin said:


> Shellac doesn't have solids content


*Schellac does in fact have solids contents. It can vary a lot depending on the mix as a lot of people mix their own. Here's a nice web page I found describing how schellac can be used and how to mix it for different applications.
*http://www.refinishwizard.com/washcoatsolids.htm


dradlin said:


> mineral (or any other oil) is not used as a top coat over french polish (shellac).


Of course. I don't think anyone would consider mineral oil (or lemon oil, gorgomyte) as a "top coat". I only use this as a cleaner.




dradlin said:


> Tung oil, whether traditional or polymerized, should never be left as a wet film thickness or to pool - it will get sticky. It cures very slowly (weeks). It is intended to penetrate the wood, is built slow with many coat applications, and buffed out each time. It requires regular replenishing, and is not moisture, chemical, or alcohol resistance. It has its applications and can produce beautiful results, though is often misunderstood and misapplied.


Again, there are basic facts that are wrong here.

*As previously stated Tung Oil does in fact provide some level of water resistance and alcohol resistance (read more about this below). Its a hard finish is is easily replenished. A lot of "bare" maple necks (think Ibanez) are finished with some form of Tung Oil. Its is extremely easy to apply (easier than tru-oil imo) and very forgiving. Re-coating is also very easy but I wouldn't buff it out before recoating. I don't think any tung oil manufacturer recommends this.
*
Although it does get sucked in by wood, in maple, a thinner wash coat of lacquer or schellac will penetrate slightly deeper and is one of many methods to prepare the wood. You can then lightly sand the "sealed" wood and apply tung oil over that. The wood will absorb some of the tung oil but with a hard wood like maple, most of it will remain on the surface. I apply it very thin, wipe off after 10mins, let cure, clean off with 0000 steel, buff and the end result is a beautiful fretboard. It really helps in getting nice luster without it being too shiny. Tru-oil would be shinier. With pure tung-oil, you don't really want to build a finish with it. That's not what its meant for.


*If you don't like Tung Oil, which is perfectly fine, a good quality wax would also provide some level of protection against things like dirt and grime. Ernie Ball suggests using tru-oil (mix of linseed or "other" polymerized oils). They're all good choices. Use whatever you feel is best for you and works on the piece you are working on. You could also just use nothing and if you're happy with that, then that's also ok. Also, there are many variations and blends of tung oil from pure tung oil **(circa 1850) **to polymerized (Lee Valley) to Minwax and Watco types that include some varnish. The typical "Tung Oil" you'll find on store shelves include some varnish that make them more durable and provide moisture resistance vs "Pure Tung Oil" which provides less resistance to moisture and water.

I finished a complete kitchen with maple cabinets I built with Tung Oil (circa 1850) 13 years ago and its still looking great. I built up the finish slightly (10 coats - I don't recomend this on a fretboard - one coat should be plenty) and finished with a paste wax.

Here's an exerpt from Behlen's PDF Catalog for pure tung oil (ref. *http://www.hbehlen.com/Behlen_Catalog.pdf) *:

*_"Tung OilPure, unmodified, unadulteratedAlso, known as China Wood Oil and Nut Oil.The most water, caustic acid, heat, andmildew resistant of all the oil finishes and themost durable. Apply only to new or preparedwood. Tung Oil is also used to manufacturemany different types of varnish. Due to TungOil's pure, unmodified, unadulterated concentratedformula, a ratio of four parts of B603-28516 RockhardTable Top Varnish Reducer (or Mineral Spirits) to one partTung Oil is suggested. Apply with a clean cloth."

_


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Something I always do on maple........is thin out the first coat of whatever I'm using about 50% product to 50% thinner. I feel it helps the wood absorb it further before it starts to dry. The extra thinner just flashes off anyway leaving the lacqer or poly behind. Also find it flows better and makes a smoother base. Second coat is 75%/25% and then third and all other coats are full strength.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Lydian,

There is no misinformation in anything I have posted... it all is accepted and conventional finishing practice.

I love both tung oil and shellac. I've used them both on a variety of projects, as well as a host of modern water and solvent based finishes.

You mention Tru-oil... it is a varnish, not an oil. A varnish builds a film thickness and can be used over dewaxed shellac, while oils penetrate and cure in the wood and do not build a film thickness.

So if in fact you are using a varnish over shellac, then that is reasonable. But then call it a varnish, not an oil.

If you are convinced that oil over shellac works for you then knock yourself out. But people deserve to understand that it is not conventional, and stating so is not a thread derail.


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

No point in repeating myself. Your previous post had mis-information in it that I pointed out and you're implying things that I never wrote and yes, some of what I do is not conventional. 

Your latest post has more repeated and new mis-information re: tru-oil. Fact: tru-oil is mostly linseed and other oil ref. https://www.birchwoodcasey.com/geta...-8767-3cc1e87db4b4/Tru-Oil®-Stock-Finish.aspx.

I won't be replying to this thread further. :smile-new:


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Lydian, the 33% "modified oil" is what renders it a varnish rather that a true oil.

Funny thing too is that even its linseed oil content is "proprietary"... Goes to show that 11% is a formulation and not natural linseed oil.


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

dradlin said:


> Lydian, the 33% "modified oil" is what renders it a varnish rather that a true oil.
> 
> Funny thing too is that even its linseed oil content is "proprietary"... Goes to show that 11% is a formulation and not natural linseed oil.


Special treatment of oil (boiling/adding solvents) helps in building film. You don't need to be a varnish to build a film and typically, a Varnish contains resins which tru-oil doesn't seem to contain.

From the Lee Valley website (*Tru-Oil*) :_Originally used as a gunstock finish, this linseed-based drying oil has gained popularity for use on tool handles, musical instruments and other items that are subject to frequent handling, due to its excellent resistance to wear and moisture.__Applied with a cloth, it penetrates the wood to deepen its color and accentuate grain, drying to a tough, lustrous and elastic film that will not crack or discolor with age._
_Made in USA._


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Lydian, I thought you weren't posting anymore?

You are mistaken. Tru-Oil is well understood to be a varnish and behaves and is applied as one too. Furthermore, and as per your link has only 11% linseed oil (proprietary, not natural), 33% modified oils (ie. varnish), and 56% solvent (mineral spirits). Oils don't build film, varnishes do. If an "oil" builds a film thickness then it has additives and at that point is a varnish, not a true oil.

Read up:

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=tru oil varnish


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

dradlin said:


> Lydian, I thought you weren't posting anymore?
> 
> You are mistaken. Tru-Oil is well understood to be a varnish and behaves and is applied as one too. Furthermore, and as per your link has only 11% linseed oil (proprietary, not natural), 33% modified oils (ie. varnish), and 56% solvent (mineral spirits). Oils don't build film, varnishes do. If an "oil" builds a film thickness then it has additives and at that point is a varnish, not a true oil.
> 
> ...



I know - I said I wouldn't post anymore. I've been known to change my mind. 

Google search tru-oil and you'll find a ton of mis-information. Your link specifically searches for "tru-oil varnish". Of course, you'll find a ton of link to forum posters that think that tru-oil is a varnish. That's your facts?

I provided the link from Lee Valley. Here's the one from the Birch Casey website (the maker of tru-oil)
https://www.birchwoodcasey.com/Refinishing/Wood-Finishing/Tru-Oil®-Stock-Finish.aspx

*Details*

There is no better oil finish! Tru-Oil Gun Stock Finish has been the professional’s choice for gunstock finishing for more than 30 years. Its unique blend of linseed and other natural oils dries fast, resists water damage and will not cloud, yellow or crack with age. Excellent as a sealer for under butt plates, recoil pads and in inletted actions to prevent stock damage.
- See more at: https://www.birchwoodcasey.com/Refi...u-Oil®-Stock-Finish.aspx#sthash.YLnspLgv.dpuf

*So the Manufacturer states in their description that it is an oil finish, Lee Valley, which is the Canadian distributor for the stuff states that it is an oil finish,*_*the MSDS shows no signs of resins (only oil/modified oil which is NOT resin and solvents which are not resins either.*_) _*but you persist in arguing that it is a varnish *_and your only data/facts are a google search on "Tru-oil varnish"? Just because you _think_ its a varnish doesn't make it one. You because you _think _it has resins doesn't make it so.
It does behave similar to a varnish in the way that it dries relatively fast and shiny. Do you believe everything you read on the internet? The modified linseed oil is just that. Pure Linseed oil would take weeks to cure, that's why they have to modify it and each manufacturer has its own proprietary method of modifying it (often referred to as boiled linseed).



UPDATE 


dradlin said:


> Lydian,
> 
> If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck... it is a duck!
> 
> ...


While this argument was taking place, I sent an email to Birchwood-Casey to get their answer on this. Seems pretty easy to do instead of arguing back and forth. They do in fact confirm that Tru-Oil is is fact a drying oil finish and not a varnish.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Lydian,

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck... it is a duck!

A "varnish" by definition is an oil(s) with added resins and solvent, so of course it will contain oils. Pure linseed or tung oil on the other hand does not have additives or solvents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varnish

Tru-oil has resin additives (evidenced by a buildable film thickness), has 56% mineral spirits as its solvent which dissolves the resin additives (according to your linked MSDS sheet).

Tru-oil has solvents and resins like a varnish, is applied like a varnish, builds like a varnish, looks like a varnish... it is a varnish!


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