# The road less travelled...Anyone else follow a ketogenic diet?



## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

Just curious. My wife and I have been strict keto for 2 years and it’s had an amazing impact on the way we look (and more importantly, feel). Anyone else forgo the western diet full of grains and sugars and dive into the high fat side of life?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Sugar and fat with white bread.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Nope.


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## Dan Caldwell (Feb 26, 2017)

RJP110 said:


> Just curious. My wife and I have been strict keto for 2 years and it’s had an amazing impact on the way we look (and more importantly, feel). Anyone else forgo the western diet full of grains and sugars and dive into the high fat side of life?


I go In and out of keto (and have for several years) as well no grains, veg oil, dairy, etc. Definitely mot for everyone but works for me.


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## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

I follow a version. I like it alot


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Diet.....die with a t.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

Simple sugars are a Biatch, with a capital B. Harder to kick than opiates. Good on you.


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## DaddyShred (Aug 11, 2019)

My wife does. I'm all for it. Now there's always a supply of bacon in the house. 

Sent from my SM-N986W using Tapatalk


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

My 37 year old daughter has lost 54 pounds so far in about 7 months on the Keto diet. Of course this is mixed with an exercise routine. Personally I don't buy in to these fad diets. Yes you can lose weight but more times than not I see those same people gain it all back and then some when they can't or don't keep it up for life.
My philosophy is moderation and making permanent life style changes. Don't be in a hurry to lose weight. Just start living healthier and exercising a little. Will take longer to shed pounds but is likely to stay off. Unsaturated fats, complex carbs. Lately I cut my portion sizes in half. 
I think my daughter is just the right weight now but she's got this goal of shedding 75 pounds in total. I think its too much. She's gone quite obsessive with this keto thing.


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## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> My 37 year old daughter has lost 54 pounds so far in about 7 months on the Keto diet. Of course this is mixed with an exercise routine. Personally I don't buy in to these fad diets. Yes you can lose weight but more times than not I see those same people gain it all back and then some when they can't or don't keep it up for life.
> My philosophy is moderation and making permanent life style changes. Don't be in a hurry to lose weight. Just start living healthier and exercising a little. Will take longer to shed pounds but is likely to stay off.
> I think my daughter is just the right weight now but she's got this goal of shedding 75 pounds in total. I think its too much. She's gone quite obsessive with this keto thing.


so, not to sound cold or condescending, but are you in good shape? I just want to know if your philosophy is working.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Eat healthy fats and cutting back carbohydrates, more whole foods and grains. Sugars from fruits, not from pop or candy. It's not a "diet", it's proper eating. Ask a cyclist who trains for racing. I don't do Keto, but have started similar by being more regimented in the foods I eat. I am tired of being more "round" than I want to be, and this is my plan, plus I want to get back as close to the mountain biker I was 20 years ago.

Preaching proper dietary intake is a far cry from practicing. I've known for years what I SHOULD be doing, just never really did follow it closely.


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## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

^^this.
Call it what you want. This is just common sense, proper eating.
I don't following any diet plan to the letter of the law, but there are lots of good, common sense ideas to pick up along the way, that maybe you are ignorant to, or just don't care to believe. Some people require a lesson plan to jump start their respective health plan.
@guitarman2 I commend your daughter for shedding that weight. And you're right, keeping it off becomes the next goal. Even if she gains it back, she's tried, and will probably be more inclined to try again if she needs to.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

numb41 said:


> so, not to sound cold or condescending, but are you in good shape? I just want to know if your philosophy is working.


I'm what you'd call average. I like to think I'm healthy. I'm a little over weight. Probably by about 10 - 15 pounds. (60 years age) Although I've got a decent handle on my diet. I eat a large bowl of raw veggies about 5 to 6 times a week, Pysillium husk every morning to keep the bowls working (After a colonoscopy a couple years ago, doc told me cleanest he'd seen in a long time and don't have to go back for 10 years) I don't currently exercise like I should. I've got a number of healthy dietary choices I made some years ago and they are permanent. About a month ago I decided to cut my meal portion sizes by half so now they're quite small. I carried that through Christmas so I'm sure that helped although I did indulge in some deserts that I normally wouldn't have.
One bad habit I have is chips and cheesys as snacks, quite often. I've been weaning off that and now its down to every couple weeks.
In the past year I've really limited the red meat intake. Not so much I was trying its just I've come to be more fond of white meat, chicken, etc. I try to limit meat meals to no more than 4 times a week. My wife makes an awesome bean salad we have once a week thats healthy. I eat a lot of raw garlic.
Mostly I am just trying to be sensible and don't find following a fad diet by the book as something that has ever worked for me long term.
One change I made about a year ago was to have my company get me a desk that goes up or down. I found it felt better to be able to change positions through out the day. At first I would stand for the morning and by after noon would be sitting. Now I almost never sit and have the desk up for standing permanently. Small change but it feels good. I was talking to the wife just last night about us getting out for regular walks again like we used to.


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## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> I'm what you'd call average. I like to think I'm healthy. I'm a little over weight. Probably by about 10 - 15 pounds. (60 years age) Although I've got a decent handle on my diet. I eat a large bowl of raw veggies about 5 to 6 times a week, Pysillium husk every morning to keep the bowls working (After a colonoscopy a couple years ago, doc told me cleanest he'd seen in a long time and don't have to go back for 10 years) I don't currently exercise like I should. I've got a number of healthy dietary choices I made some years ago and they are permanent. About a month ago I decided to cut my meal portion sizes by half so now they're quite small. I carried that through Christmas so I'm sure that helped although I did indulge in some deserts that I normally wouldn't have.
> One bad habit I have is chips and cheesys as snacks, quite often. I've been weaning off that and now its down to every couple weeks.
> In the past year I've really limited the red meat intake. Not so much I was trying its just I've come to be more fond of white meat, chicken, etc. I try to limit meat meals to no more than 4 times a week. My wife makes an awesome bean salad we have once a week thats healthy. I eat a lot of raw garlic.
> Mostly I am just trying to be sensible and don't find following a fad diet by the book as something that has ever worked for me long term.


I'd say you have a great understanding of things! I hope I'm as diligent at age 60 as you are. Thanks for sharing your healthy habits.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

I have a lot of people I work with who have done keto. Some are on it longer than others and all have had reasonable success with weight loss, maintaining a good weight. The common thing making every single one is that as soon as they stopped eating a Keto diet they all gained a pile of weight.


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## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

RBlakeney said:


> I have a lot of people I work with who have done keto. Some are on it longer than others and all have had reasonable success with weight loss, maintaining a good weight. The common thing making every single one is that as soon as they stopped eating a Keto diet they all gained a pile of weight.


Again, common sense will prevail. Do eat greens (often), don't eat chocolate bars (often)


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

numb41 said:


> Again, common sense will prevail. Do eat greens (often), don't eat chocolate bars (often)


I don’t know much about it. But this low chocolate bar high greens diet doesn’t sound like it’s for me!


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Would have loved to have tried but the Doctors all felt maybe with my med problems might not be the way to go for me. But I have seen a few others who are strict with it and are looking great. But I am curious how does it effect your bowels. For me I would rather eat 6-8 small meals then the 3 meals. but loosing weight has become some what of an issue stuck at 200 won't go up but hard to go down to.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

numb41 said:


> Again, common sense will prevail. Do eat greens (often), don't eat chocolate bars (often)



Actually it depends. I'd say don't eat candy bars often. Which is what those chocolate bars are in the convenience store. I am a bit of a chocoholic. I buy my bars from Goodness me. Its a brand of responsibly sourced organic chocolate. They have different percentages of dark chocolate. The one I eat is 89% dark chocolate with 4 grams of sugar cane. I usually will eat just half the bar at a time (about 3 to 4 times a week) for a treat, which is 2 grams of sugar. It took a while to build up a tolerance as at first it was bitter but after getting used to it I love it. Now I can't stand the store bought bars which generally contain anywhere from 30 to 40 grams of sugar.
I tried the 100% bar with zero grams of sugar but that was just way too bitter.
This type of chocolate is supposed to be very heart healthy, much like wine but as healthy as pure dark chocolate is you still don't want to over do it.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

A big myth in the eating world, is 3 square meals a day. Should be 5 or 6 smaller "snacks". I know that time may play a part for line workers, factory, etc, but when you eat large meals, you metabolism breaks it down slower. Speed up your metabolism (natural weight/fat burning) by eating smaller amounts more more often spread through the day. I know it's easier said than done. I am lucky as a courier that I can access my lunch bag throughout my entire day. I have a snack that includes nuts daily at 10:30 - 11. My hunger is actually on "schedule" due to my trying to time when I eat daily. I just get lazy and beer and pizza, or A&W are far easier than the time consuming meal preparing. I am 56 now and know things are slowing down and weight loss and maintenance are going to be harder.


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## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

Substitute chocolate bars with, I dunno, pork rinds. Just being hyperbolic


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Ship of fools said:


> For me I would rather eat 6-8 small meals then the 3 meals. but loosing weight has become some what of an issue stuck at 200 won't go up but hard to go down to.


That is the correct equation for eating. Do you swim, or have a membership somewhere you can swim? Bike ride? Doesn't have to be a 2hr ride at 35kph. Both are low impact, fat burning and enjoyable. 

You guys also have to remember if you exercise or workout at all, muscle mass weighs more than fat. Don't always use the scale as measurement, use your waist.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Ship of fools said:


> Would have loved to have tried but the Doctors all felt maybe with my med problems might not be the way to go for me. But I have seen a few others who are strict with it and are looking great. But I am curious how does it effect your bowels. For me I would rather eat 6-8 small meals then the 3 meals. but loosing weight has become some what of an issue stuck at 200 won't go up but hard to go down to.



About 15-20 years ago I did the 6 to 8 small meals a day with a good exercise routine and I lost a great deal of weight. It took a few months but once it got going my body was like a furnace. I'd literally be sweating at night in bed. It really kicked my metabolism in to high gear. Unfortunately I just couldn't keep it up. It takes a lot of time and prep to do it in a healthy manner. 
Now that I'm cutting my portion sizes down I may end up going back to that by supplementing my main meals with smaller in between snacks. Although I'm not feeling hungry in between my smaller meals like I did when I was 40.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

numb41 said:


> Substitute chocolate bars with, I dunno, pork rinds. Just being hyperbolic


Dark chocolate. Full of good oxidants. All within moderation of course. Dark red fruit also hold anti aging oxidants......just as a side note.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

RJP110 said:


> Just curious. My wife and I have been strict keto for 2 years and it’s had an amazing impact on the way we look (and more importantly, feel). Anyone else forgo the western diet full of grains and sugars and dive into the high fat side of life?


That’s awesome man! I was heavy into Keto for a long time. Three years I followed strict super high fat and near zero carbs lifestyle. My doctor was consistently impressed with the results and bloodwork initially after warning me when I started that it is dangerous.

It is definitely a lifestyle and can be somewhat difficult to maintain. The person who guided me through the beginning had been strict keto for 25 years and is one of the fittest and healthiest person I have met and seems to have the fountain of youth.

I am not strict Keto anymore and mostly due to personal choice and what eating habits are better and easier for me to maintain long term.

I don’t believe eating ketogenic is a fad at all but more of a solution to genetic limitations when it comes to processing sugars and fat storage. Gary Taubs has written extensively about the genetic and geographical components of eating. Why we get Fat is a great book that explains a lot of why Keto is a great choice for a lot of people. 

Canadian explorer Viljamur Steffanson did a lot of real world research on all meat diets in the early 20’s and it’s interesting reading especially his trials w the Mayo clinic.

I probably would’ve stayed in ketosis for life but it’s not for everyone. My wife felt great but very limited and it’s a lot of work to keep up with prep and three kids and trying to have a menu that is satisfying. My self I could eat Chicken thighs and green beans and Ceaser salad everyday no problem.

As a compromise we transitioned to the Zone which to us feels very similar to living in ketosis mentally and physically but a little more forgiving in types of food available to stay in the zone, especially fruit which suits my family better. I’m sure once my kids are all grown and moved out I’ll be back keto for life. It’s a perfect fit for me.


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## Dan Caldwell (Feb 26, 2017)

Everyone is different. There isn’t a correct way to do things for every body. I often eat 2 or sometimes only one (or none) meals a day. That’s correct for my body. I know because I did the 6 meals a day thing when eating lots of carbs. Eat feel fine. 2 hours later hangry. Eat feel fine. Repeat. For me it’s not great for my mental or physical health. My advice is experiment with your own body (give things a solid month too) and see what works.


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## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

Man, there's alot of good advice in this thread. And, it's stayed positive and light. Kind of a nice change!


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Dan Caldwell said:


> *Everyone is different. There isn’t a correct way to do things for every body*. I often eat 2 or sometimes only one (or none) meals a day. That’s correct for my body. I know because I did the 6 meals a day thing when eating lots of carbs. Eat feel fine. 2 hours later hangry. Eat feel fine. Repeat. For me it’s not great for my mental or physical health. My advice is experiment with your own body (give things a solid month too) and see what works.


This is about the best and most accurate thing said in this thread. This is why I hate giving any advice concerning exercise and diet. I only recount what's worked for me. I may comment to someone if I think, in my opinion, what they're doing isn't healthy. Young people tend to do whatever it takes to lose weight with health taking a back seat. I know, I was like that when I was young. I was interested in losing weight and losing it fast. Over many decades of working out and dieting I've found what works for me. By the time I was 50 I found that concentrating on health and not looking for instant results was the best way to go. It also made it easier to wait for results when I wasn't expecting it tomorrow.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

On the topic of keto and the number of meals you should eat a day ie. 6-8 small, 2-3 larger etc. one benefit of ketosis is being completely in tune with when your body and mind need energy. Feel hungry and need energy- eat. Don’t feel hungry or need energy- don’t eat.

I was using ketosis as a strategy when I was fighting MMA professionally. My meals during training would always cause people to question my methods.My weigh ins were mostly at 205lbs and I’d walk around normally close to 230LBS.

6 weeks out of weigh in day I would cut my carb intake from around 30g per day to as close to zero as possible. I would have no problem dropping the 25 needed no problem and never had to sauna or cut water weight to make weight. While everyone else was on a treadmill in the sauna with plastic suits and not eating or drinking for 48 hrs. to make their last five pounds I’d often weigh in a little under 205lbs while eating all day.

A day of eating would look like this

8 eggs for breakfast with half a pound of bacon and some cheese.

6-8 Chicken thighs cooked in butter with a large Ceaser salad and string beans.

T-Bone/Rib eye after training with broccoli, butter and Ceaser salad.

Lots and lots and lots of water to stay hydrated.

Snacked on almonds, cheese, sliced meat, cottage cheese and olives.

Out of training the amount of food was way less but similar.


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## Trevor Giancola (Jan 30, 2017)

I feel like shit eating any added sugar. Also carbs like rice bread and pasta I never feel good if I eat more than a little...I’d bet eating meat, fish, eggs, and lots of veggies is the way to go.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Trevor Giancola said:


> I feel like shit eating any added sugar. Also carbs like rice bread and pasta I never feel good if I eat more than a little...I’d bet eating meat, fish, eggs, and lots of veggies is the way to go.


Im the same way. I didn’t even realize how shit I felt till I tried different in my mid 20’s. It was just normal for me.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

tdotrob said:


> Im the same way. I didn’t even realize how shit I felt till I tried different in my mid 20’s. It was just normal for me.



I did not eat very well in my 20's. Too many miles on the road with the band and too many truck stops.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Diet ? Why for ?
Each time I hear about any diet I wonder what occidental world citizens were eating during their middle age as we now got so many people getting to the age of 80 years and well over.
Even in the eighties, cardiocascular diseases were showing some incidence decline without any strong evidence that diets were helping.
Cigarette smoking was a strong culprit, no doubt.
I am not even convinced the billions and billions of dollars invested in lipid lowering drugs to lower mildly elevated cholesterol levels are helping but the industry share owners.
We also know that craving in France during WWII probably lead to lower cardiovascular events... Is craving a diet. I hope not.
An epidemiologist told me NO SERIOUS EPIDEMIOLOGIST is studying diet influence anymore as too many confounding factors are involved and would blur the numbers.
But most of all : What diet did follow our parents that lead them to their 80-90-100 birthday ? I guess not any ! Are Hollywood, politicians and newspapers making science ? I hope not...
Add on : Fibers help in reducing cholesterol absorption but I prefer them for their stool helping properties...


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

guitarman2 said:


> I did not eat very well in my 20's. Too many miles on the road with the band and too many truck stops.


Same with me. I was one of those guys that ate and ate and ate and never gained a lbs, and struggled to gain muscle in the gym. I was 6’3 and 125 lbs when I was 15! Then sometime during my 20’s it all changed and I just started adding fat in my mid section at a crazy fast pace.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

RJP110 said:


> Just curious. My wife and I have been strict keto for 2 years and it’s had an amazing impact on the way we look (and more importantly, feel). Anyone else forgo the western diet full of grains and sugars and dive into the high fat side of life?


I did carnivore diet for a month a couple years back. It was honestly the best I've ever felt.


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## Dan Caldwell (Feb 26, 2017)

Okay Player said:


> I did carnivore diet for a month a couple years back. It was honestly the best I've ever felt.


Me too. Only stopped because I missed veggies.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Dan Caldwell said:


> Me too. Only stopped because I missed veggies.


I hate veggies, but I missed a lot of other stuff and eating on a narrow diet is a pain in the ass day to day.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

no can exercise anymore. my medical conditions do not allow it and eating a big meal can cause severe chest pain. have not really exercised since 2008 and do try to walk as much as possible but not very far a couple of blocks can be well it just sucks. can go further if I'm shopping with a cart but then pay for it later.
man I miss when I use to weight train for body building or just even being in the gym and lifting weights at 30 #350 bench press at 60 #350 bench press and then my hip went and had to stop prior to surgery and was told not to train like I use to hate it. not I mix my days of eating veggies and then I will go with prime rib and chicken breasts the other days sugar well one a day in my only cup of coffee but avoid it like a plaque.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

I’ve done keto before with success. These days, I do LCHF, with intermittent fasting.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

How do you know if someone is doing Keto? Don't worry, they'll tell you.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> How do you know if someone is doing Keto? Don't worry, they'll tell you.


They still rank as less annoying than vegans.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

i did keto for a few months. It worked . And I hated every fucking minute of it.
Reasons:
i was constantly hungry, constant cravings.
difficult to do if you eat out a lot.
Im not a natural carnivore-I get sick of meat really easily, I cant even finish an 8oz steak, and Id rather die than touch seafood.

it literally felt like a jail sentence....albeit a white collar crime one.

I was doing fine weight wise, until I got married. Adapting to someone else's eating patterns has been bad for me, as well as a move to a more sedentary lifestyle, naturally slowing metabolism due to aging, a hockey injury that prevented me from working out for a few years, and when my job had me on the road a lot, fast food was unavoidable and became addictive.

lately im trying to go back to the Lars diet (my real name....just trying to go back to how i did things before I got married)...a balance of carbs and proteins, lots of veg-I actually like veg., very little snacking, no late night binging, much less fast food, and setting aside time to work out- i was a personal trainer through uni and for a few years after.
Im taking the year off from work, my kid is a little older now, so hoping it will be easier to commit to it.
The guy I once was, has to be in there somewhere...









I just have to figure out how to find him again.


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

keto said:


> Nope.


But you’re screen name is literally Keto


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

Dan Caldwell said:


> Everyone is different. There isn’t a correct way to do things for every body. I often eat 2 or sometimes only one (or none) meals a day. That’s correct for my body. I know because I did the 6 meals a day thing when eating lots of carbs. Eat feel fine. 2 hours later hangry. Eat feel fine. Repeat. For me it’s not great for my mental or physical health. My advice is experiment with your own body (give things a solid month too) and see what works.


I was the same. I've come from the body building mentality where you need a ton of protein and eat every few hours. I was constantly Hangry and bloated. I recognize that there's no "one size fits all" for diet, but cutting out sugar and grains has made a huge impact in how I feel.


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

Diablo said:


> i did keto for a few months. It worked . And I hated every fucking minute of it.
> Reasons:
> i was constantly hungry, constant cravings.
> difficult to do if you eat out a lot.
> ...


Yeah, if you aren't a big meat eater it's tough. I've never really been big on pasta, bread etc. And I'm good with beef and chicken....can't tolerate seafood or pork (other than bacon!) so it's been pretty easy. My weakness has always been sweets. That's why I love keto. We even make our own ice cream with whipping cream. It's not that frequent, but I can indulge and not break ketosis.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

RBlakeney said:


> I have a lot of people I work with who have done keto. Some are on it longer than others and all have had reasonable success with weight loss, maintaining a good weight. The common thing making every single one is that as soon as they stopped eating a Keto diet they all gained a pile of weight.


My wife was strict keto for a while and lost 30+ pounds. As soon as she transitioned back into a "normal" diet she started gaining it back even though she was very careful about how much she ate. I have no doubt keto works but you have to be in it for the long haul.


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

tdotrob said:


> On the topic of keto and the number of meals you should eat a day ie. 6-8 small, 2-3 larger etc. one benefit of ketosis is being completely in tune with when your body and mind need energy. Feel hungry and need energy- eat. Don’t feel hungry or need energy- don’t eat.
> 
> I was using ketosis as a strategy when I was fighting MMA professionally. My meals during training would always cause people to question my methods.My weigh ins were mostly at 205lbs and I’d walk around normally close to 230LBS.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's a great way to cut water. I recently went on vacation for a week and went off keto. I gained 31lbs in 8 days! But on day 5 back in keto I was already down 27lbs. Just goes to show you how inaccurate the scale is for body composition.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

RJP110 said:


> But you’re screen name is literally Keto


No, keto small k, always. First 2 letters of my first and last names. Has been my screen name since 1996, when, though it existed, few had ever heard of the diet. I certainly hadnt.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

RJP110 said:


> Just curious. My wife and I have been strict keto for 2 years and it’s had an amazing impact on the way we look (and more importantly, feel). Anyone else forgo the western diet full of grains and sugars and dive into the high fat side of life?


I did it a few times back when I cut weight for athletic purposes. But that was a long time ago, and an entirely different me. I hated it the same as I hated any other dieting method. But it worked about as well as any other dieting method I used to achieve the same results.

In general, the data is getting pretty solid on this subject. There have been many good meta-analyses and systematic reviews released in the recent decade alone, all coming to a similar conclusion. Barring some specific medical conditions, the only thing two things that matter in a successful diet regime are proper calorie management and adherence. As in, consuming less energy than you expend (adding exercise certainly helps) and choosing a style of eating that you can actually sustain long term. Long term being the key... People mistakenly treat diets as temporary changes until a goal is reached. But, if you want permanent results, you need to make permanent changes. Also, most of the ancillary health benefits of dieting occur with most dieting methods. Again, it is about long term adherence to keep those benefits long term. The fat loss and health benefits both start to go away as soon as a caloric surplus comes back, which is what happens when most people "finish" their diet.

So, if you like eating the "keto" way, and can sustain it. That's awesome man! Most people really struggle to maintain healthy eating habits long term. Should you continue, you'll no doubt continue to have great results and will continue to reap the benefits.

Yes, everyone is different, as in, everyone has different proclivities that impact their ability to adhere to the protocol long term. Their perception of how they feel on a particular diet greatly impacts their adherence. So, yes, certain diets seem to work better than others for some people. To a small degree, that's because of genetics and other factors. But, to a much larger degree, it is because they are better able to adhere to those diets long term than to other ones. To put it simply, it's REALLY hard to adhere to a diet long term if it has you eating foods you don't like at times that are radically different than your usual times, especially if they're inconvenient times for you. It's much easier if it contains foods you actually like (and can moderate your consumption of) at times that are convenient or familiar to you. External factors like partner support, etc, are also major factors on adherence, but that's another rabbit hole. I'm going to bed.

I miss doing this stuff some times... It's been a while, but I still very much enjoy the subject matter.


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## DaddyShred (Aug 11, 2019)

Wife's lunch prep for the week. 
Keto noodles with sausage and siracha chicken (to still be added)
Might be a pain but this stuff tastes great lol









Sent from my SM-N986W using Tapatalk


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

DaddyShred said:


> Wife's lunch prep for the week.
> Keto noodles with sausage and siracha chicken (to still be added)
> Might be a pain but this stuff tastes great lol
> 
> ...


Which noodles?


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## DaddyShred (Aug 11, 2019)

RJP110 said:


> Which noodles?


I don't think anything makes them especially special, other than being gluten free.









Sent from my SM-N986W using Tapatalk


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

jbealsmusic said:


> I did it a few times back when I cut weight for athletic purposes. But that was a long time ago, and an entirely different me. I hated it the same as I hated any other dieting method. But it worked about as well as any other dieting method I used to achieve the same results.
> 
> In general, the data is getting pretty solid on this subject. There have been many good meta-analyses and systematic reviews released in the recent decade alone, all coming to a similar conclusion. Barring some specific medical conditions, the only thing two things that matter in a successful diet regime are proper calorie management and adherence. As in, consuming less energy than you expend (adding exercise certainly helps) and choosing a style of eating that you can actually sustain long term. Long term being the key... People mistakenly treat diets as temporary changes until a goal is reached. But, if you want permanent results, you need to make permanent changes. Also, most of the ancillary health benefits of dieting occur with most dieting methods. Again, it is about long term adherence to keep those benefits long term. The fat loss and health benefits both start to go away as soon as a caloric surplus comes back, which is what happens when most people "finish" their diet.
> 
> ...


I agree adherence is number one. And of course calories matter, but I think they matter less than what we initially thought. I weighed ALL my food pre and post keto. My total calories as well as training stayed the same. The only thing that changed was my macro quantities. I literally went from 11% body fat to 6% in 2 months. I now sit at around 8% and I eat more than previous. The hormonal changes with dietary modification is where I think the real benefits come from. For instance, if you can reduce insulin spikes, you can maximize glucagon. Low insulin and higher glucagon really does open up the door to burn fat. And this doesn’t necessarily need to be on a caloric deficit. Now you of course can do this without a ketogenic diet, but if you can adhere to a very low carb diet, you really do open the door to some very interesting hormonal changes. That being said, I think it’s a great idea to change it up and go out of ketosis periodically as well. It’s all about metabolic versatility


----------



## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

DaddyShred said:


> I don't think anything makes them especially special, other than being gluten free.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


GF, but not keto. Tons of carbs. If you keep your portions to about 15g carb, it's not a problem for most.


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## DaddyShred (Aug 11, 2019)

Merlin said:


> GF, but not keto. Tons of carbs. If you keep your portions to about 15g carb, it's not a problem for most.


Think that's what my wife is doing. Pretty sure it's a cup of pasta in each meal. Maybe a cup and a half. 

You're asking keto advice from the guy who drinks Heineken and values being able to polish half a bag of Tostitos and salsa in one sitting 

Sent from my SM-N986W using Tapatalk


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

DaddyShred said:


> Think that's what my wife is doing. Pretty sure it's a cup of pasta in each meal. Maybe a cup and a half.
> 
> You're asking keto advice from the guy who drinks Heineken and values being able to polish half a bag of Tostitos and salsa in one sitting
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986W using Tapatalk


Hieneken! Might as well drink soap in my opinion. Not too sure if these are on any Ketogenic diet








but take a large bag of each of these and add this








Go for it until the chocolate milk and cookies are gone.....Notice I thought healthy and chose 1%. I'm not supposed to have either but at my age, what the hell. Once in a while doesn't hurt, right. I'll have to check with my Dr. and two of the specialists about that. 


RJP110 said:


> I agree adherence is number one. And of course calories matter, but I think they matter less than what we initially thought. I weighed ALL my food pre and post keto. My total calories as well as training stayed the same. The only thing that changed was my macro quantities. I literally went from 11% body fat to 6% in 2 months. I now sit at around 8% and I eat more than previous. The hormonal changes with dietary modification is where I think the real benefits come from. For instance, if you can reduce insulin spikes, you can maximize glucagon. Low insulin and higher glucagon really does open up the door to burn fat. And this doesn’t necessarily need to be on a caloric deficit. Now you of course can do this without a ketogenic diet, but if you can adhere to a very low carb diet, you really do open the door to some very interesting hormonal changes. That being said, I think it’s a great idea to change it up and go out of ketosis periodically as well. It’s all about metabolic versatility


Damn, you sound like the one specialist after he told me about NAFLD. I would get a refered to a Clinical Associate Professor of Medicine Liver Unit.


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

I tried Keto. It worked well and I kept the weight off for a couple years. Then I got tired of the effort required to stay lean. There are about 1 million food choices that are quick, easy and bad for you. All the other good healthy food takes hours of prep work, so the healthy food is ready to go. Quickly, when you want a fast snack. I found that I needed to prep healthy food for the upcoming week for about 2-3 hours on a Sunday afternoon. Then every morning when I headed for work, I‘d quickly grab healthy lunch to take to work.
Sure you can pay $$$ for healthier snacks that are ready to go. But they have been touched by human hands so you friggen pay thru the nose. Cheap food is processed food. Humans barely, if at all, touch it. Good healthy food costs a small fortune each week. Either you pay more $ for it, or you put your own time into into it and prep it yourself. Time is money, and it's true here too. I don't know about you but I have 50 other things I'd rather be doing than preparing or cooking food.

Keto did change my eating habits. I learned exactly what the hell my body struggles to digest. Heartburn every day? Blood sugar lows? Constipation? Hacking throat lcearing after many meals. Why? I was putting up with it all for my of my life. I was on heartburn medication. I learned, thanks to Keto that I am unable to deal with Gluten. Unfortunately I figured that out 48 years too late. All symptoms are gone now that I gave up Gluten. No more medication either. I have brought back some foods that Keto banned. I am not in Ketosis anymore. I gave it up. I packed on 6 lbs over XMAS as chocolate and candy was in every corner of the house. I think I drank a 1.75L of Rye over 3 weeks. 4 L of eggnog. Not bad, but the sugar...It adds up. I think I'll have lost the 6 lbs again here by the end of January without much effort.


Try it, Keto. Listen to your body. You may be enlightened like me. If you have other annoying health issues that you are dealing with now.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I think it’s time our ever increasingly overweight society reevaluates things.

why do we celebrate with gluttonous eating? Thanksgiving, Xmas, birthdays, job changes etc....we have no shortage of foods, most of the time we are simply eating our favourites, not things that we don’t eat the rest of the year.
chocolate is not a rare treat anymore, it’s probably in most homes all year round.
feasts used to follow months of hard labour in the fields, or a religious fasting. We don’t live like that.
so what we get is, days or weeks of gluttony that leads to months of misery trying to get the weight back off, usually unsuccessfully. We have a culture designed to cause weight gain.

so my New Years resolution, is no more celebrsting with food. My family can buy me an ugly tie or something instead of “taking me out for my favourite dinner”. Even if I never wear it, I’ll be happier in the long run .

sorry for the rant, just had an unpleasant meeting with my bathroom scale.








fuck Xmas.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Diablo said:


> why do we celebrate with gluttonous eating


The list of things that I actually look forward to and enjoy gets shorter every year. Depression? Mid-life crisis? I dunno... Regardless, with COVID locking everything down, good tasting food in abundance is about all I have left. Bring on the stretchy pants. I'm going in!


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

General obesity in the population can also be attributed to food costs. Unhealthy cheap food is abundant. As the working class wages continue to move a slower pace than the steady rise of inflation, more and more people are forced to get by with less cash. Food prices have become a major expense. Fresh lean meat, fish, poultry and vegetables are slowly becoming foods for the high income earners. Kraft Dinner, frozen pizzas, ichiban, dry cereal, canned fruit from China, soda pop, potato chips, frozen lasagna is the norm for many these days. This group of people in Canada continues to grow larger in numbers, and in waist size every year. Look at the US obesity problem. We're 1/10th the size of their population. I would not be surprised learn our percentage of population who are obese is similar. Many people cannot afford to eat as healthy as they should. Add to it the addiction to the internet, cell phones, gaming, and now covid lock down, people are not generally as active. The problem is not getting better any time soon.


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

keithb7 said:


> General obesity in the population can also be attributed to food costs. Unhealthy cheap food is abundant. As the working class wages continue to move a slower pace than the steady rise of inflation, more and more people are forced to get by with less cash. Food prices have become a major expense. Fresh lean meat, fish, poultry and vegetables are slowly becoming foods for the high income earners. Kraft Dinner, frozen pizzas, ichiban, dry cereal, canned fruit from China, soda pop, potato chips, frozen lasagna is the norm for many these days. This group of people in Canada continues to grow larger in numbers, and in waist size every year. Look at the US obesity problem. We're 1/10th the size of their population. I would not be surprised learn our percentage of population who are obese is similar. Many people cannot afford to eat as healthy as they should. Add to it the addiction to the internet, cell phones, gaming, and now covid lock down, people are not generally as active. The problem is not getting better any time soon.


Agreed. It is complicated. I still feel there are options and it's a matter of priorities. For example, there are many that choose to spend their $$$ on cigarettes as well as alcohol. And it's not all or nothing when it comes to diet and exercise. You can start adding in better foods within your budget as well as exercise (Which costs nothing).


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

RJP110 said:


> Just curious. My wife and I have been strict keto for 2 years and it’s had an amazing impact on the way we look (and more importantly, feel). Anyone else forgo the western diet full of grains and sugars and dive into the high fat side of life?


The GI diet is healthy and long term studies show no hidden dangers yet. I have not seen long term studies for Keto yet so, I can't attest to any hidden effects.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

RJP110 said:


> Agreed. It is complicated. I still feel there are options and it's a matter of priorities. For example, there are many that choose to spend their $$$ on cigarettes as well as alcohol. And it's not all or nothing when it comes to diet and exercise. You can start adding in better foods within your budget as well as exercise (Which costs nothing).


I personally think in this country, it’s more laziness than cost.
fast food is no longer cheap food.
you can get carrots, lettuce, potatoes, rice, eggs, milk, and many other things quite cheap.

if it were about money, Tim hortons would be out of business...any fool can make a cup of coffee for pennies.

but godaam if we will do this. We will even pay extra for bags of lettuce already cut, with an increased risk of bacteria’s, so we don’t have to spend a few seconds doing it.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

jbealsmusic said:


> The list of things that I actually look forward to and enjoy gets shorter every year. Depression? Mid-life crisis? I dunno... Regardless, with COVID locking everything down, good tasting food in abundance is about all I have left. Bring on the stretchy pants. I'm going in!


My wife’s MILF friend has a saying “nothing tastes as good as skinny feels”.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Give me a woman with some meat on her bones and a healthy appetite for everything over a skinny one any day.








Those hip bones can hurt.


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

As someone who did his PhD research on the effects of a high fat diet, that's certainly not something I'd recommend... 

Most people on keto diets are losing weight because they're paying more attention to what they're eating, which is the only real solid way to lose weight: changing your eating habits, eat healthier foods, smaller portions, a more balanced amount of protein in every meal, carbohydrates with a lower glycemic index, and balanced macronutrient intake 

I'm open to questions


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

I have read that, while Keto may be good for steady energy levels, it is not at all good for any athletic pursuits that require explosive power - like cycling and rowing or any sport that requires a sustained level of anaerobic performance. 
@Business , got any info on this?
I feel very lucky that I've never felt the need for a diet- besides cutting back on bad habits occasionally. I'm 56 and have never been over 150 pounds. Always active and so far no major injuries or health problems.


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

zztomato said:


> I have read that, while Keto may be good for steady energy levels, it is not at all good for any athletic pursuits that require explosive power - like cycling and rowing or any sport that requires a sustained level of anaerobic performance.
> @Business , got any info on this?


Interesting questions
If glycogen stores are depleted, one would think endurance would be affected
Moreover, there could be multiple adaptations of glucose metabolism that would alter performance after a medium-long term keto diet 

I found this review after a quick search, in which the authors conclude that the current data is inconclusive (and not many studies have been done on elite athletes) 
Other studies, like this one, tend to lean towards confirming the hypothesis that low-carb diets affect performance 

As with most recent topics, there's no definite answer


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I'm on the seefood diet.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

zztomato said:


> I have read that, while Keto may be good for steady energy levels, it is not at all good for any athletic pursuits that require explosive power - like cycling and rowing or any sport that requires a sustained level of anaerobic performance.
> @Business , got any info on this?
> I feel very lucky that I've never felt the need for a diet- besides cutting back on bad habits occasionally. I'm 56 and have never been over 150 pounds. Always active and so far no major injuries or health problems.


I trained and fought MMA for a number of years while eating very low carb and high fat. lots of energy and performed in the gym as well as anyone else.

Business I’d be interested in reading what you found to conclude high fat consumption was not something you’d reccomend.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

My only experience with a keto diet was watching a guy at work who was on it. He ate some weird-ass lunches that's for sure. He was a young guy, well under 30, and at his peak he must have weighed 500 lbs. He dropped over 100lbs in the first 9 months, slowed down a bit after that, but had lost over 200lbs when I saw him last. One of those guys that you couldn't not like. It was great to see him getting a handle on things.


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

tdotrob said:


> I trained and fought MMA for a number of years while eating very low carb and high fat. lots of energy and performed in the gym as well as anyone else.
> Business I’d be interested in reading what you found to conclude high fat consumption was not something you’d reccomend.


There are multiple metabolic and physiological alterations that come with eating large quantities of lipids
The actual fatty acids ingested also matter, among other things

We used a short term rodent model for our experiments and focused on the skeletal muscle, but there are multiple studies focusing on other organs, with both rodent and human models

Most of my PhD work here, here, here and here


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## Dan Caldwell (Feb 26, 2017)

Business said:


> There are multiple metabolic and physiological alterations that come with eating large quantities of lipids
> The actual fatty acids ingested also matter, among other things
> 
> We used a short term rodent model for our experiments and focused on the skeletal muscle, but there are multiple studies focusing on other organs, with both rodent and human models
> ...


I'm not up on reading studies etc but glossed through the abstract. Wondering what was the fat themrsts were actually fed?

Also those interested in Keto and endurance athletes should check out some of Peter Attia‘s work. Interesting Stuff.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

tdotrob said:


> I trained and fought MMA for a number of years while eating very low carb and high fat. lots of energy and performed in the gym as well as anyone else.
> 
> Business I’d be interested in reading what you found to conclude high fat consumption was not something you’d reccomend.


Yeah, there's a lot of anecdotal findings out there from individuals. I'm a pretty serious recreational rower and have heard both positive and negative from athletes. 
In rowing, one if the benchmark tests is a 2k erg test. Elite heavyweight male athletes are in the 6 min range -WR is 5:35 IIRC. The 2k is an all out effort that leaves very little room for peak bursts- the whole thing is a peak performance level. The anecdotal evidence suggests a LCD is not ideal in this type of effort. Again though, just anecdotal.
More study on how you could get the best out of both approaches to fueling would be welcome.


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

Dan Caldwell said:


> I'm not up on reading studies etc but glossed through the abstract. Wondering what was the fat themrsts were actually fed?


This diet



Dan Caldwell said:


> Also those interested in Keto and endurance athletes should check out some of Peter Attia‘s work. Interesting Stuff.


To me, people that don't conduct research and sell stuff are automatically disqualified


----------



## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)




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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

zztomato said:


> Yeah, there's a lot of anecdotal findings out there from individuals. I'm a pretty serious recreational rower and have heard both positive and negative from athletes.
> In rowing, one if the benchmark tests is a 2k erg test. Elite heavyweight male athletes are in the 6 min range -WR is 5:35 IIRC. The 2k is an all out effort that leaves very little room for peak bursts- the whole thing is a peak performance level. The anecdotal evidence suggests a LCD is not ideal in this type of effort. Again though, just anecdotal.
> More study on how you could get the best out of both approaches to fueling would be welcome.





Business said:


> There are multiple metabolic and physiological alterations that come with eating large quantities of lipids
> The actual fatty acids ingested also matter, among other things
> 
> We used a short term rodent model for our experiments and focused on the skeletal muscle, but there are multiple studies focusing on other organs, with both rodent and human models
> ...


Awesome thanks.


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

tdotrob said:


> I trained and fought MMA for a number of years while eating very low carb and high fat. lots of energy and performed in the gym as well as anyone else.
> 
> Business I’d be interested in reading what you found to conclude high fat consumption was not something you’d reccomend.


Yeah, agreed. I think once you are fat adapted, your body can hit its limits again. I do lots of anaerobic activity including kick boxing, Krav Maga and weights. I definitely suffered the first 3 months.


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

Business said:


> This diet
> 
> 
> 
> To me, people that don't conduct research and sell stuff are automatically disqualified


My buddy has his masters in nutrition as well and his stance is that periods of ketosis broken up with unprocessed low glycemic carbs (fruits and veggies, no grains) are best as the goal is metabolic flexibility to be able to use both pathways. All I know is that all my markers for diabetes, heart disease and inflammation are way below where they were. And I feel unbelievably better. That’s all the evidence I need.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

zztomato said:


> Yeah, there's a lot of anecdotal findings out there from individuals. I'm a pretty serious recreational rower and have heard both positive and negative from athletes.
> In rowing, one if the benchmark tests is a 2k erg test. Elite heavyweight male athletes are in the 6 min range -WR is 5:35 IIRC. The 2k is an all out effort that leaves very little room for peak bursts- the whole thing is a peak performance level. The anecdotal evidence suggests a LCD is not ideal in this type of effort. Again though, just anecdotal.
> More study on how you could get the best out of both approaches to fueling would be welcome.


Thanks for this. 
I bought a Concept2 this winter, and wasnt sure what sort of 2k times to aim for....sadly, at 12min, Im nowhere near elite lol although Im sure my form leaves as much to be desired as my conditioning


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

tdotrob said:


> I trained and fought MMA for a number of years while eating very low carb and high fat. lots of energy and performed in the gym as well as anyone else.
> 
> Business I’d be interested in reading what you found to conclude high fat consumption was not something you’d reccomend.


the way the body works with insulin etc, is pretty weird.
common knowledge is that food gives us energy, therefore eat to be energized....but its amazing how good you can feel when fasting occasionally.
ever feel somewhat depressed, lethargic? skip a meal or 2. you'll feel more alive than eating your worries away. its as though the fear of starvation primes your body's fight or flight response.

i think high carb / low carb depends on what stage of training you are in....if your prime focus is building muscle then high protein is needed. But when things turn more aerobic, you need carbs. Its interesting how much carbs NHL players eat on game day, for example. They do their muscle building in the off season, so their energy and protein requirements are different during the season.
the michael phelps diet (when competing was an interesting one as well)
Michael Phelps: 12,000 calories a day don't seem to be doing him any harm! | Daily Mail Online
Id wager the average Canadian who doesnt work in an overly physical capacity gets more protein than they already need.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

In the case of obesity (not athletic performance), conventional wisdom is all wrong. We treat it as a nutritional knowledge issue, which is not the case. We know french fries and soda are bad for us, as much as smokers know cigarettes are bad for them.

Why do we consume it then? Its an addiction and we need to treat it as such, like smoking or drugs...know people who smoke or drink or do drugs when stressed, depressed etc? Well, obese people do that with food, and junk food is highly addictive.
until we break the addiction (and you arent doing that simply by substituting mcdonalds with broccoli and lean chicken) we will continue with our fattening ways.
and thats why thin people will never understand why people are fat, and look down upon them (just stop eating bad, they say)...the same way, I cant understand why someone takes crack. we dont have that same all consuming need that the addicts have.


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## Dan Caldwell (Feb 26, 2017)

Business said:


> This diet
> 
> Glad I’m not on this chow....
> 
> To me, people that don't conduct research and sell stuff are automatically disqualified


Not aware of him selling things just that he has done some experiments in himself involving Keto and very long distance endurance events.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Diablo said:


> Thanks for this.
> I bought a Concept2 this winter, and wasnt sure what sort of 2k times to aim for....sadly, at 12min, Im nowhere near elite lol although Im sure my form leaves as much to be desired as my conditioning


Well, you're half way to elite status!
Form is everything though. I'm sure you can easily get to a better 2k time with some fundamental adjustments.
I'm sure you've watched demos on the C2 before but this is a pretty good demo of the rowing stroke. One thing not covered is where to set your drag factor. When people get on the erg at the gym the typical thing I see is they immediately crank the vent to 10 because they don't notice any resistance. I set mine to about 4 (115 drag factor on my C2). 
Anyway, while I'm not going to the gym these days, I really like having an ERG. Makes for a great workout. Sorry for the thread derail.


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

Diablo said:


> the way the body works with insulin etc, is pretty weird.
> common knowledge is that food gives us energy, therefore eat to be energized....but its amazing how good you can feel when fasting occasionally.
> ever feel somewhat depressed, lethargic? skip a meal or 2. you'll feel more alive than eating your worries away. its as though the fear of starvation primes your body's fight or flight response.
> 
> ...


I believe studies show it's opposite. If you are fat adapted, aerobic performance is usually better after you are fat adapted. High intensity anaerobic activity has been shown to suffer but they're are the strategies such as a targeted keto diet for that as well. I think it depends on your goal. For the average Joe that wants to stay lean and train hard, what does it matter if my peak performance drops 15%? I still push myself regardless. If you make your living in competition or are focussed on utmost maximum performance, Keto may not be your thing.













The Targeted Ketogenic Diet: Everything You Need To Know


There’s a new kid on the keto block. Name of TKD ???? TKD stands for targeted ketogenic diet. On the TKD, you eat a small number of carbs before, during, or after exercise. These carby snacks may enhance exercise performance. Depends on the person, depends on the exercise, depends on the type of...




perfectketo.com


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

Diablo said:


> Thanks for this.
> I bought a Concept2 this winter, and wasnt sure what sort of 2k times to aim for....sadly, at 12min, Im nowhere near elite lol although Im sure my form leaves as much to be desired as my conditioning


Shawn Baker seemed to do ok on pure carnivore!


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

jbealsmusic said:


>


Dave Feldman is a genius!


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

Dan Caldwell said:


> Not aware of him selling things just that he has done some experiments in himself involving Keto and very long distance endurance events.


Peter Attia is offering "Exclusive Member Discounts" on his website
Jeff Vortek is pushing his "Virta" health plan

Be very weary of MDs and PHDs using their credentials to make a buck (plenty of them out there)

Keto diet is a big money maker these days


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Business said:


> Peter Attia is offering "Exclusive Member Discounts" on his website
> Jeff Vortek is pushing his "Virta" health plan
> 
> Be very weary of MDs and PHDs using their credentials to make a buck (plenty of them out there)
> ...


I like Barry Sears. It’s funny cause his Wikipedia says “ best-known for creating and promoting the Zone diet, a fad diet which is not well supported by medical evidence.”


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

tdotrob said:


> I like Barry Sears. It’s funny cause his Wikipedia says “ best-known for creating and promoting the Zone diet, a fad diet which is not well supported by medical evidence.”


"Currently, Sears has published 15 books that have sold more than 6 million copies in the United States."

Contributions to science: meh
Contributions to his bank account: hell yeah


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

Business said:


> Peter Attia is offering "Exclusive Member Discounts" on his website
> Jeff Vortek is pushing his "Virta" health plan
> 
> Be very weary of MDs and PHDs using their credentials to make a buck (plenty of them out there)
> ...


I noticed this as well. Even though a lot of these guys have great info, I can’t help but question their credibility


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Business said:


> "Currently, Sears has published 15 books that have sold more than 6 million copies in the United States."
> 
> Contributions to science: meh
> Contributions to his bank account: hell yeah


Does selling books automatically disqualify him and his research as legit? I don’t think so. I mean the biggest complaint about his first book The Zone was too “sciencey” for the average person. Plus his research involved actual humans in actual performance situations. Does research involving rats as opposed to humans give more credibility to the work?


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

tdotrob said:


> Does selling books automatically disqualify him and his research as legit? I don’t think so. I mean the biggest complaint about his first book The Zone was too “sciencey” for the average person. Plus his research involved actual humans in actual performance situations. Does research involving rats as opposed to humans give more credibility to the work?


By "meh" I didn't mean that his research should automatically be disqualified 
He's certainly published more work than I have (he's also much older) 
But as a "big name", his contribution to science is disproportionately small compared to the revenue he must have generated with his books pushing a diet with no scientific backing 
Both animal and human research have their strengths and weaknesses


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

I dug up this thread again as I am moving back to a low carb diet and am hoping maybe we can make it active. 

I have a fresh set of bloodwork and will be updating it every three months under supervision of my doctor.

This is the second time I will be living on the fat of land so to speak. 

Last time was about 6 years of strict low carb (30g and under per day) and back then it was hard to find a doctor to work with me. I actually had one tell me I would die of keto acidosis lol. He changed his mind when he saw what it did for my cholesterol and blood sugar.

After I quit fighting and training in 2012 I struggled for a few years with diet. After such a period of intense daily training, cutting weight and dealing with some nasty physical injuries, I just couldn't seem to WANT to maintain good eating habits for a few years. With some big life and career changes happening at the time I just lost the desire and it definitely was a mental and emotional reaction to my personal life and how I felt. The last couple of years I have been much more disciplined and was following more of a calorie management style of eating that was 40% protein, 30% fat and 30% carb. 

My father was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes in his 40's and was prescribed insulin and other meds. This was always in the back of my mind the last few years and I believed my balanced diet of lean meat, healthy fats and low GI carbs would be enough to help me avoid that type of fate, I felt good and it wasn't very restrictive as far as nutrition goes.

I started noticing a few physical issues about a year and half ago and this week was diagnosed with diabetes. Before the doctor got the prescription pad out I convinced her to give me three months to show improvement with diet and exercise and if I couldn't I would take anything prescribed. 

Let's see how it goes.

Starting the journey off with some inspirational reading from the OG.



http://static.aaroniba.net/misc/fatofland.pdf


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

tdotrob said:


> I dug up this thread again as I am moving back to a low carb diet and am hoping maybe we can make it active.
> 
> I have a fresh set of bloodwork and will be updating it every three months under supervision of my doctor.
> 
> ...


Welcome back to the fold! I’ve been strict keto for 3 years and can’t see ever going back to the standard western diet of processed BS. I truly believe “you are what you eat”!. I know LC/HF isn’t for everyone but it’s literally changed my life. My father in law was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes as well 6 months ago. His HBA1C was around 9% or so. After 4 months of LCHF his repeat was 6%. His MD was pretty blown away and was content to take him off medication. So stick with it man! It can be done!


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

RJP110 said:


> Welcome back to the fold! I’ve been strict keto for 3 years and can’t see ever going back to the standard western diet of processed BS. I truly believe “you are what you eat”!. I know LC/HF isn’t for everyone but it’s literally changed my life. My father in law was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes as well 6 months ago. His HBA1C was around 9% or so. After 4 months of LCHF his repeat was 6%. His MD was pretty blown away and was content to take him off medication. So stick with it man! It can be done!


Thanks! day 6 and I feel great. I think because i was under 30% carbs as my regular diet I am not feeling much affect from cutting them out. 

I am curious on the diabetes Canada website it pretty much says type 2 diabetes is mainly caused by carbohydrate resistance. The Keto part of their website isn't very attractive at all and lists the temporary transitions symptoms you feel as side effects of a low carb diet.

So if I have this straight, a solution to a disease that is caused by carbohydrates and the blood sugar problems it creates is to slightly lower carb intake and then treat with insulin and medication.
Why not just eliminate the need for glycogen as an energy source?


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