# looking for Amp suggestions up to 40watt



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Hey guys, I'm really loving my Blues Junior right now, but I'm sort of wishing I had something a little more versatile. I'm thinking of upgrading to a 2x12 all tube setup. There are so many freaking variations of Fender 2x12 amps I'm getting a headache from thinking about it. I thought about buying new, but i'm not rich enough to justify 2k on a new amp. There are 2 amps I really like but they are boutique amps that would cost me almost 3k CDN for a 1x12. I love the Swart Space Tone, and the Tone King Falcon. Both at about 20 or so watts each, amazing sound, but the price tag is just got me thinking "holy crap!".

So If i decided to go for a Fender 2 x 12, what would you guys suggest I look for? I am not a great player yet, but my long term goals are to be able to play mostly 60's and 70's type stuff. Pink Floyd, Purple, Genesis, anything that the Q would play on Psychedelic Sunday. 

I took a look at some Marshall stuff, but man, even those seem to be twice the price of a fender...

Looking at spending 1k max for now


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Off the top of my head, (used) all-tube Fender 2x12 combos in your price range would include: the Hot Rod Deville, late-70's (Ultra-Linear) Pro Reverb, and the Twin/Twin Reverb (SF, "red knob", '65 RI). All of those models exceed 40 watts however, at approx. 60, 70, & 85/100 watts respectively. There was one Twin model that had a switch to cut power to just 25 watts though. Others here may be aware of additional Fender 2x12 tube amps under 40 watts and $1K but that's all I can think of. One obvious option would be to go with a head/cab arrangement instead, which would allow you to consider other Fender amp models...

Steve


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## fretzel (Aug 8, 2014)

How about some of the Traynors. 
I have the custom special 50 combo 1x12. 50/15 watts. Nice cleans plenty of gain for the music you have described. Kid s boost. I have seen them used for $500.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Does it have to be a 2 x 12? I've sold every 2 x 12 I've had except for my AC30 due to portability issues between rehearsals and shows.

Personally, my favourite Fender amp is actually a 1 x 12. The Deluxe Reverb and the Custom Deluxe Reverb are amazing amps for the money. They're a great platform for pedals, plenty loud and have great sounding reverb and vibrato.


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## exhausted (Feb 10, 2006)

For versatility I'd be looking at the super-sonic 22 head used and then find a 2x12 cabinet. Assuming you don't need more that 20 ish watts.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I don't gig. So portability isn't an issue. If i had the opportunity to jam at a buddies house or something, I'd bring the blues junior. But a 40-50 watt 1 x 12 would probably work for me too. 

I was also thinking about just getting a head, then plugging it into the blues junior. Not ideal, but it's something that I could live with. Maybe an 18 watt Hughes & Kettner. I'm just wondering what else sounds good with a Cannabis Rex. The only time I hear that speaker mentioned is in a blues junior. LOL. 

One thing the amp must have is some sort of attenuation/master volume/switchable output. I do all my playing in a 10x10 room. I'm just looking for something with more tonal option than the BJR. 


I'll look up some of these suggestions on youtube. I know that isn't an ideal way to buy an amp, but it should narrow things down a bit, then I can bring my guitar with me to hear how it sounds when I am ready to pull the trigger.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Super-sonic is a good choice but if it were me I'd get a used recent Deluxe Reverb 1 x 12 and pick up a matching 1 x 12 cab.


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## GWN! (Nov 2, 2014)

Not sure what you mean by versatile. And by all tubes do you mean with tube rectification as well? You should go try out a Deluxe Reverb or even a Princeton Reverb at a local shop. I think that a 2x12 in a 10x10 room might be overkill. Have you tried out different amps like a Vox AC 15. To me having two different amps with different sounds is my definition of versatile.


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

I'd go with a Silverface Twin Reverb and a couple of good pedals

You can always pull 2 tubes out of the Twin and cut the power by half


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

This is weird. I posted earlier but the post didnt "catch"...

Versatile... The Bjr has 3 tone knobs and a crappy reverb. Compared to something like the Bugera V22 which I saw on youtube the other day, the Bjr is a plain Jane amp. Which is fine, because that was what I was looking for at the time. But now that I have heard amps with tube reverb, and tube tremolo, I think I want to keep the Bjr and also get something with a few more tonal options. I'll admit the Bugear is tempting, but I suffer from "made in china" syndrome. Although my epiphone is a chinese guitar. LOL


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I've had a few Blues Jnr's over the years. Mustang III blows it out of the water. You need to get into the deep editing, don't just listen to the presets, but it's easy and worth it. The V4 is a 2 x 12. You really don't have to spend a lot of money to sound good anymore.



knight_yyz said:


> This is weird. I posted earlier but the post didnt "catch"...
> 
> Versatile... The Bjr has 3 tone knobs and a crappy reverb. Compared to something like the Bugera V22 which I saw on youtube the other day, the Bjr is a plain Jane amp. Which is fine, because that was what I was looking for at the time. But now that I have heard amps with tube reverb, and tube tremolo, I think I want to keep the Bjr and also get something with a few more tonal options. I'll admit the Bugear is tempting, but I suffer from "made in china" syndrome. Although my epiphone is a chinese guitar. LOL


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I picked up a Traynor YCV50blue 1x12 combo with a matching YCV12 cab for $450 used about a month ago. You may want took at a cab to go with 1x12 combo for more versatility.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

davetcan said:


> I've had a few Blues Jnr's over the years. Mustang III blows it out of the water. You need to get into the deep editing, don't just listen to the presets, but it's easy and worth it. The V4 is a 2 x 12. You really don't have to spend a lot of money to sound good anymore.



I don't want solid state.


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## GUInessTARS (Dec 28, 2007)

Have you considered Mesa/Boogie, I have seen some pretty good deals lately on previously enjoyed Boogies.
If you prefer new with a warranty, I would recommend one of the channel switching Traynors.
I played one at a jam recently that sounded really good. Don't know the model but it had a gold face plate,
like a Marshall, and the owner said it was 50 watts.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

knight_yyz said:


> I don't want solid state.


If you can live without reverb (I've been using NR amps for years as I find it adds little to live situations), it's hard to imagine a better deal than the vintage Traynor that's available right here: http://www.guitarscanada.com/showthread.php?72467-Fender-Bassman-59-RI-and-1969-Traynor-YGM2


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Honestly, you probably don't need 40w. I would expand my search to models from 20w and up. I would also expand my search to brands other than Fender.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I agree with JB and others, 40W is alot of power. 20W is a loud amp, especially when not in a band environment.

And Fender but versatile? Simple - Mesa. You gotta learn the active tone stack but there's a huge variety of tones in most of them. A used 1st version Express or some of their older amps can easily be had for <$1k. And a 112 with an extension cabinet is, again, more versatile than a 212. JMHO. Good luck with the quest.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

Just saw this listing....it should interest you..
G.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-amp-pedal/gu...bo/1097889267?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Just found a 68 deluxe close to me. Trying to set up an appointment


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Any opinions on the Marshall DSL 40C? I'll be heading to see Fred in Niagara Falls to drop off my Les Paul for some work. There is a DSL 40 just around the corner from him


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

My motto is: it's not sold until money's in the bank


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Is that the new DSL? Older ones weren't bad from what I've read, but I never tried the combo model.

Mesa Boogie Lonestar 112 if you can swing it.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

knight_yyz said:


> I don't gig. So portability isn't an issue. If i had the opportunity to jam at a buddies house or something, I'd bring the blues junior.


I'm having trouble understanding your logic in this. You want a 40 watt 212 amp for home use but you would attend jam sessions with a 15 watt 112. That doesn't compute for me.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

+1 on the Mesa Boogie recommendations. Can't beat them really. I picked up an Express 5:25 for $600.00 what a great amp. Fender cleans, crazy distortion, great reverb, 4 channel voicings. You can play in 5w mode or 30w mode. Just awesome.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

I have a 50 watt 112 Boogie that is quite awesome. Called the .50 Caliber. It has lovely Fender-like chimey cleans and a rocking crunch tone. I paid $700 for it used. One of my better purchases.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

BMW-KTM said:


> I have a 50 watt 112 Boogie that is quite awesome. Called the .50 Caliber. It has lovely Fender-like chimey cleans and a rocking crunch tone. I paid $700 for it used. One of my better purchases.


This is one of the "sleepers" in the Mesa line (others include the blue angel, F series and DC series and the other Caliber models). They're usually under a grand and sound really good. They just never took off like the Mark and Recto lines.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

BMW-KTM said:


> I'm having trouble understanding your logic in this. You want a 40 watt 212 amp for home use but you would attend jam sessions with a 15 watt 112. That doesn't compute for me.



Pretty sure I said *UP TO *40W. If I did not say UP TO 40W, you guys would be suggesting 100 watt heads with 4 x 12's etc... The Bjr amp is fine. I just wanted something with more tonal abilities than an amp with a lousy reverb and 3 tone knobs.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

The Bjr is plenty versatile. It's up to you as the player to work the guitar though. This is where pickups and the tone and volume knobs come in. 

Do you use an overdrive pedal with the amp? If you don't like the verb just buy a pedal.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

After checking out countless videos, right now i am leaning towards the 68 custom deluxe reverb with the bassman tone stack. But I don't have enough cash so I will just keep my eye on kijiji and see what pops up.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

I think that's a wise choice. If you get one, be sure to try it with an A/B/Y switch. Running both sides at once sounds quite nice.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

You know, I tried 2 of those '68s in different stores one day when I was out on a "journey" and BOTH had a scary POP when I switched the stand-by on and off. I wasn't impressed. It completely eliminated my desire to get one. I love the "idea" of them though.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Neutrik silent plug will make that a non issue


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

knight_yyz said:


> Neutrik silent plug will make that a non issue


I don't think it will... the Standby switch isn't there just for when you want to change guitars

FWIW, my vintage Fenders also pop when the Standby switch is flipped

Let me just say that, if you have the choice between an vintage Fender and one of the newer ones, go with an older one
Build quality is that much better.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Sorry I thought the standby switch was for plugging in and out. whats the purpose of it then?


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

knight_yyz said:


> Sorry I thought the standby switch was for plugging in and out. whats the purpose of it then?


Warming up tubes and components with lesser stress. Taking short-medium breaks without having to turn the amp off (more stress)

You don't actually need to put your amp on standby when you swap guitars, just turn your master volume down


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Or just pull the jack out of the amp while you change, plug it back in after you've connected the new guitar.



Business said:


> Warming up tubes and components with lesser stress. Taking short-medium breaks without having to turn the amp off (more stress)
> 
> You don't actually need to put your amp on standby when you swap guitars, just turn your master volume down


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Business said:


> I don't think it will... the Standby switch isn't there just for when you want to change guitars
> 
> FWIW, my vintage Fenders also pop when the Standby switch is flipped
> 
> ...


What's the failure rate of the new ones? I ask because my previous teacher/occasional tech has had nothing but good things to say about the newer Fender amps, and he has the vintage ones to compare to. I myself have not gigged either, so I can't offer personal experience on it.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

Vintage Fenders don't pop going into and out of standby.
If they do there's something wrong and they should be seen by a qualified amp tech.


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

Budda said:


> What's the failure rate of the new ones? I ask because my previous teacher/occasional tech has had nothing but good things to say about the newer Fender amps, and he has the vintage ones to compare to. I myself have not gigged either, so I can't offer personal experience on it.


 Failure rates? Only dealers/distributors/Fender would have those numbers

I do know I used to own a DRRI RI and the build quality was crap. The tremolo made an helicopter sound (which I kinda fixed)
Lots of anecdotal evidence posted on the forums about quality issues too


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

And from Sweetwater, about Standby switch pop

"The pop that you hear from the standby switch on your Fender Deluxe Reverb is actually normal. It isn’t hurting your amplifier. The reason it happens is because when your amp is turned on and running, there is a constant supply of voltage running through your amp. When you throw the standby switch from On to Standby, you are disconnecting the high voltage half of the power supply. The usage of the standby switch as a mute is actually not proper. Standby switches were designed to protect the capacitors (not the tubes) in the power supply of your amp while the tubes warmed up. When powering up your amp, you would have the standby switch set to Standby in order to allow the tubes to warm up before sending full voltage to the capacitors in the power supply. When powering down, it is not necessary to put your amp in standby.
In fact, the standby switch was not always a feature of the Deluxe amps. Because these particular amps have a tube rectifier, a standby switch is not necessary. The tube rectifier allows all of the electronics to slowly receive operating voltage as the amp warms up. Many think the standby switch was added simply due to popular demand because guitarists like to use them as “break” switches. However, standby switches were never designed to be used as a “break” switch. If you want to take a short break, it is actually better to just leave your amp on. If you want to make sure your amp makes no sound, just turn the volume down.
If you want to prevent the pop from happening, the standby switch should be turned off _last _when powering down.
Another option would be to leave the standby switch to the On position on your Fender Deluxe Reverb at all times. This will cause no damage to your amp, according to our in-house amp technician."


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I read a bunch of stuff also about the standby, and the consensus seems to be it's a waste of a switch as it is not needed. It was a marketing ploy by fender which was copied by a few other manufacturers.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2015)

knight_yyz said:


> Pretty sure I said *UP TO *40W. If I did not say UP TO 40W, you guys would be suggesting 100 watt heads with 4 x 12's etc... The Bjr amp is fine. I just wanted something with more *tonal abilities* than an amp with a lousy reverb and 3 tone knobs.


Consider a Rivera. If you're looking for tone options, this it.
Goes from Fender cleans to Marshall crunch. IIRC, Paul designed 
Fender's blackface amps and series II before going on his own. 
A slight turn (a C hair) on any of the knobs, gives you a different
sound altogether. I have a 55w 212 Fandango that sounds fantastic
(that can be pried from my hands for the right trade. lol). 

[video=youtube;jPu7-vxu77s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPu7-vxu77s[/video]


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Someone pm'd me about the Fandango, but I have not heard back. I think it is out of my price range right now.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2015)

for the record. t'was not me.


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## grumpyoldman (Jan 31, 2010)

T'was I who PM'd (and have done so again). My Fandango is the 1X12 version...

John
thegrumpyoldman


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Too bad, I work in Milton, but i have nothing to trade for it. 



laristotle said:


> Consider a Rivera. If you're looking for tone options, this it.
> Goes from Fender cleans to Marshall crunch. IIRC, Paul designed
> Fender's blackface amps and series II before going on his own.
> A slight turn (a C hair) on any of the knobs, gives you a different
> ...


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Are you sure you don't want a Budda and nice 2 x 12 cab 



grumpyoldman said:


> T'was I who PM'd (and have done so again). My Fandango is the 1X12 version...
> 
> John
> thegrumpyoldman


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2015)

knight_yyz said:


> Too bad, I work in Milton, but i have nothing to trade for it.


I'm in no rush. If you come up with something (plus some cash), PM me.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2015)

StevieMac's amp may suit your needs.
http://www.guitarscanada.com/showth...luxe-Reverb-(can-deliver-to-GTA-Fri-Sept-4th)


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Well, I finally pulled the trigger on a mint, mid 90's reissue of the '63 Brownface vibroverb. 2x10" Made in USA


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Cool looking amps. The circuit is nearly identical to the "Custom" Vibrolux Reverb, which many folks have bought and just modded to VV specs (less cost and the CVR came with better speakers to boot). The VV can be tweaked to sound MUCH better too though. I had one for awhile and our other guitarist has used one for years in rehearsals. I noodled extensively with both of those VV and found some inexpensive but worthwhile tweaks. Congrats on finding something.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Nice amp. Looks like the one I sold to Pete 



knight_yyz said:


> Well, I finally pulled the trigger on a mint, mid 90's reissue of the '63 Brownface vibroverb. 2x10" Made in USA


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I just did a quick google search and i couldn't find anything on any tweaks. Lot's of stuff in forums asking about tweaks/mods but no actual pages showing what those mods are. I'm sure I'll keep this stock for at least a while anyway. If anything, I'd love to do a turret board conversion to the original specs. drool....


By the way, the guy I bought it from was not named Pete. LOL


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Great little amps. I can't get along with 10" speakers, otherwise I'd still have mine.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

knight_yyz said:


> I'm sure I'll keep this stock for at least a while anyway.


Original speakers still in that amp?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Eminence Legends installed


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

knight_yyz said:


> Eminence Legends installed


Perfect. The originals were truly horrible and Legends would be my first choice for that amp (an AlNiCo + ceramic combo actually). If it hasn't been done already, have the bias checked and, ideally, a bias-adjust pot installed at the same time. These amps were all biased cold at factory spec IME and sound dramatically better once properly biased. The speaker swap & correct biasing should get you 95% "there"...the rest is just strategic tube swaps. Good luck.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Wow, this amp seems to be more rare than I thought. I'm usually good at finding info n stuff, but the 6g16 info is like a needle in a haystack. I'd love to add a bias trimpot, it did wonders for my BJr, but the only thing I found is someone makes a turret board for a bias control, but they didn't sell anything to go with it. If you have any sites, I'd appreciate the links


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Just have your tech install one in the hole for the (useless) ground switch at the back. You won't have to loosen/remove anything to rebias after that (if you use a bias tool like me or simply do it "by ear").


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

StevieMac said:


> (if you use a bias tool like me or simply do it "by ear").


Biasing by ear can be hazardous as it can lead to red-plating or reduced tube life due to biasing too hot.
Unless you know the range of the bias window in your amp, I wouldn't recommend it.
I do like that you're not doing it that way though. :smile-new:


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Woohoo! The amp is just down the highway in Mississauga. So it might be here by Friday.... lol


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