# Wah Wah or Auto Wah?



## mrfiftyfour (Jun 29, 2008)

I haven't had a wah on my board for years, mostly 'cause the wah is so overdone. But I figure it's time for me to have some wah fun. Like most people, I love the half-cocked wah sound and an auto wah can accomplish that and a whole lot more.
I'm sure a wah wah would win any poll, but I'm wondering which forum members have an auto wah on their boards and what do you guys recommend?
Before we start, no Hogs or Pogs (I require simplicity) and nothing over $150. It also has to play well with heavy fuzz.


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## -mbro- (Apr 3, 2010)

My m13s wahs are stellar. Why settle for one when you can have both? The m5 is small plus you can add an expression pedal


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

I use my Dullop hendrix wah sparingly and usually with a clean sound. love it.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

I second the dunlop hendrix wah, mine cuts through a dirty marshall just fine. Always wanted to try the dunlop 535 as well.

Auto wahs just never did it for me.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I have a bunch of both, and was in the process of working on another when I looked at this thread.

The thing to remember about auto-wahs is that most will not have the degree of control over the time constants (how quickly it sweeps up or down) to match the feel required for any given song or mood. The nice thing about a wah-wah pedal is that the sweep rate is completely controlled by the user. For me, that's not a weakness as much as a reason to mod them or simply build another one.

One of the quirks of auto-wahs is that they need an input signal with as much dynamic range as you can feed them, in order to generate useful sweep. Feed them a fuzz or otherwise compressed signal, and you stifle them. The same can not be said for wah-wah pedals. The salvation is found in pedals like the EHX Q-Tron+ (and some of their other recent pedals) which have a send-receive loop built in. That lets them detect the envelope _*before*_ the distortion kicks in, but apply the filtering *after* the fuzzed signal. Handy, that.

It's also worth considering that the preponderance of foot-controlled wah pedals have only one sort of function built in: a bandpass filter that sweeps upward as you move your foot forward. That never really stopped Hendrix and so many others from motivating us to want one, but auto-wahs will often have a variety of filter types or designs to select from, as well as sweep of direction selectable. It is possible to build all of that into a wah shell, and such products have existed in past (and probably still do), but they tend not to be available at one's local guitar shop.

Here's a classic from well over a decade ago, that I wrote: http://hammer.ampage.org/files/Autowah.PDF RG Keen also has it on his website: http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/ecftech/ecftech.htm If memory serves, the text in the first one is more comprehensive, but the graphics show up better in the second. Probably worth snagging both. Most folks say there's useful info in there.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

For years I experimented with wahs and kept returning to the old standby Crybaby. The George Dennis was interesting but kinda sterile, the Digitech was smooth but lifeless, if those descriptions mean anything. My backup is the wah in the little Boss multi-effects unit that serves as a backup. Auto-wahs don't let me play rhythm dynamics creatively and I sometimes like to do a sort of reverse wah (toe up as opposed to toe down). The cocked wah is a favourite tone too. 

Peace, Mooh.


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## Macki (Jun 14, 2010)

I have the Voodoo labs wah which has both. I tend only to use the "normal" wah but on occasion, for something different, I switch to the auto. I do tend to prefer that I can use my foot to move the wah filter around - it gives me a better feel what I want in the song/solo. 

mhammer - great article (I am an old analog/high speed EE guy now turned bike shop owner). I like to see the details.....


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks. Given where we both live, it _better_ be a great article. After all, it's the only effect named after our city! (I was going to say the only effect named after *a* city but then I remembered Wawa, Ontario).

There is actually some automotive place on Laperriere in the west end called Auto-Wah, if you can believe it.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Remember there is a difference between an auto wah pedal with adjustable sweep and time, like a tremolo, and an envelope type wah which is sensitive to pick attack. I've never liked the auto wah pedals I've tried. Personally I prefer a good old fashion wah pedal, but I sometimes use a Menatone envelope filter when I want to get my Jerry on.

sdsre


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## mrfiftyfour (Jun 29, 2008)

Well, I said in the OP that the wha pedal would win. Thanks for your input guys.
I've tried a couple of auto wahs in store and liked the results I was getting. I like getting tones I can call my own so I'm still gravitating to the auto wah. Might go with the cheap danelectro fren fries pedal to experiment with.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I have a Boss AW-3--which is sensitive to your attack.

I love it--works great with distortion--I tend to place a distortion before it and another one after it so I can distort the wah, wah the distortion or both.

If you find it used it should be below your price limit.
I'm not sure of the current new prices on them.

I got mine used for a less than half of what it was new at the time --close to a third of the new price then--although I believe they've come down in price--but I'm not 100% sure on that.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

I bought an auto-wah years ago. It was a ton of fun in the store, but slowly saw less and less use and eventually none. It enjoyed a brief comeback when I started playing bass, but has again fallen into dis-use.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

bw66 said:


> I bought an auto-wah years ago. It was a ton of fun in the store, but slowly saw less and less use and eventually none. It enjoyed a brief comeback when I started playing bass, but has again fallen into dis-use.


That's why it's nice that they can be gotten so cheaply in some cases. A bit like that container of chili flakes we all bought. You use it for a bunch of recipes, but not for everything.

My favourite, for many years, was the MXR Envelope Filter, because I found the variable attack time allowed it to suit a variety of contexts. n These days, I tend to mod my filter pedals to have variable decay. I find this to be a more useful control sometimes. While attack can usually only be varied over a fairly short range, decay can often be varied over a much wider range. Fast decay tends to make filter sweeps feel more synth-like. It also helps in reducing audible ripple (that little fluttering or gargle of the filter as the note dies out, which can sound like distortion to some ears), especially with bass.

Much like chorus, sometimes you don't want the effect in your face, but just want to get a little more animation out of it. In those instances, it can be nice to have a blend control to mix in some dry signal.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

The best I've tried, as far as a auto-wah that good with distortion/OD/fuzz, is the Mad Professor Snow White auto wah. I've had a bunch over the years- I liked the old Boss tw-1 as well.


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## doriangrey (Mar 29, 2011)

I've been a wah addict sinc eI strated playing many years ago - I can't help it - I step on it almost every time I launch into a solo... I bought a Keeley wah a couple of years back and it's benn the best wah I've ever played...


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## mrfiftyfour (Jun 29, 2008)

Thanks zontar and zztomato, I'll check those pedals out. And as always, mhammer goes above and beyond.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

zztomato said:


> The best I've tried, as far as a auto-wah that good with distortion/OD/fuzz, is the Mad Professor Snow White auto wah. I've had a bunch over the years- I liked the old Boss tw-1 as well.


The Boss TW-1 is probably the only "true auto-wah" out there, actually. It uses a circuit very similar to a Cry-Baby type wah, complete with inductor. The remainder are perhaps more properly described/classified as "auto-filters", since they sweep some form of filter. Not that a wah-wah *isn't* a bandpass filter; it just represents one particular topography and means of producing a swept filter.

I have yet to see any commercial pedal that allows one to set a particular passband "width", independent of Q/resonance. One can get swept bandpass filters that allow for adjusting the "peakiness" of the swept filter, which will affect the "width" of the range that is swept, but there is nothing that would let one use a switch or knob to predetermine that the filter is going to affect content within a 1.5-octave, 2-octave, or 2.5-octave range as it moves.

The EHX Bassballs is a modder's dream in many respects. I've modded that sucker every which way from Sunday, and have yet to exhaust all possibilities. Even if you have a stock one, there is plenty you can do. The BB sweeps two independent staggered bandpass filters; one higher than the other. There are two small trimmers on the board which set the range and starting point of those two filters. It is a trivial matter to replace those trimmers with panel-mounted controls that let you adjust the stagger to achieve very different "personalities" to the sound. This fellow provides a nice photo-essay about how he did it: http://basstyra.free.fr/atelier/pages/bassballs/bassballs.html


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