# 5E3 - Suppose everyone needs one of these. Now It is a Build Thread



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

So it is "winterish", we don't really do winter out here on the coast. If I scrape the frost off my car it kind of looks like snow??

Anyhow, I have decided it is time to make myself another amp head. This time around I figure I will build a 5E3 "Tweed Deluxe" except there won't be any tweed anywhere and it will likely live in yet another aluminum housing on a shelf. 

For anyone that might have built one (I know it is common) want to offer some good advice or pitfalls to avoid??

I am looking to try my hand at a point to point build because that looks kinda fun and I can shrink the chassis right down and then plunk the tubes up on top and controls on the front. This lends itself to housing them on shelves rather well which in my particular circumstance really adds a benefit that cannot be overlooked. 

Got all the parts and pieces in a cart at NextGen right now and the Tubes ready at Lee's Electronics and frankly the whole affair will be just shy of $500 so how can I even say no?

Anyhow, appreciate any advice you might have to offer.

Thanks.


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## Blamecanada312 (8 mo ago)

Right on! Sounds fun. Dont forget to post the build.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Blamecanada312 said:


> Right on! Sounds fun. Dont forget to post the build.


If there is one thing you never have to worry about where I am concerned, it is the fact I will post all about it


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

ISOLATE TONE AND VOLUME POTS WITH ISOLATION WASHERS IF YOU GET GROUND LOOP HUM








PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO GROUND LABELS ON THESE TERMINALS STRIPS


RESISTOR LOOK UP

CAPACITOR CALCULATOR

ROBINETTE HELP

STEWMAC HELP

LASTLY, while you are already ordering parts, order enough to also make a 5F2A if you don’t like how loud or how much bass is offered with the 5E3 or if you just plain want to benefit from only needing one power and one common 12AX7 preamp tube.


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## Alan Small (Dec 30, 2019)

I suggest using one proven schematic only...do not mix n match if you want success first time around.

If you have the personality to learn by failure then by all means mix n match several drawings and "mods" before you complete a working successful amp🤪


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Alan Small said:


> I suggest using one proven schematic only...do not mix n match if you want success first time around.
> 
> If you have the personality to learn by failure then by all means mix n match several drawings and "mods" before you complete a working successful amp🤪


Rob is the Man, Rob will show me the way


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

I suggest using a mix and match as I did for great sucess. Also get a seafoam custom cabinet designed.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

RBlakeney said:


> I suggest using a mix and match as I did for great sucess.


I do not know what this means?


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Mark Brown said:


> I do not know what this means?


I'll PM you


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

I'm still in the throes of overhauling my 20yr old 5E3 Homebrew reno and have a list of tweaks that I can PM, but here are some major ones to consider:

use a 270ohm cathode bias resistor rather than the 250 usually spec'd, especially given today's AC outlet voltages; and 10W is always better than 5W IMHO.
boost the first two B+ filter caps to 22uF vs. the original spec 16uF
an amp tech bud loves to put in a Deluxe Reverb OT for a little more headroom

Everyone wants/needs a 5E3!!!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I got a 10W and have a small assortment of 5w ceramics to see what difference difference may make.

I build to original spec, then I can sort out what things I dont like. If I start at the top, well... then there isn't anything left to discover 

As for tweaks I'm all ears. Seems there is an endless assortment of things one can do to modify this particular circuit and it is all very well documented. Problem with that is I get overload lol


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

Most tweed-era amps were built when line voltages were supposed to be about 117vac but it was still common to run 110v-115v. Raw line voltage on my bench today is... 121-122 vac!! That does make a difference with the actual B+ voltages in the amp.
Ideally your 250ohm resistors measure on the high side (ideally 260-265ohm). I find that the newer ceramic brick resistors are all over the map in measured value. Just don't drop in anything under 250ohms.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

DavidP said:


> Most tweed-era amps were built when line voltages were supposed to be about 117vac but it was still common to run 110v-115v. Raw line voltage on my bench today is... 121-122 vac!! That does make a difference with the actual B+ voltages in the amp.
> Ideally your 250ohm resistors measure on the high side (ideally 260-265ohm). I find that the newer ceramic brick resistors are all over the map in measured value. Just don't drop in anything under 250ohms.


I measure everything going in. Curiosity gets the better of me for the most part but also because I'm too lazy to look up colour codes.

What DOESNT work in that space is a 250K ohm resistor. Ask me how I know


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

RBlakeney said:


> I suggest using a mix and match as I did for great sucess. Also get a seafoam custom cabinet designed.
> 
> View attachment 449269
> View attachment 449270


Holy shit that's sexy!


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

I know you're doing no cab, but if you change your mind the correct speaker is the Weber 12A125A. 

I did my build like 11 years ago so I don't recall many specifics. Mine was a Mission 5E3 kit and as far as I've seen Bruce is out of the kit business now. Shame because it was a really good kit. I've still got it and it's been 100% trouble free.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> I know you're doing no cab, but if you change your mind the correct speaker is the Weber 12A125A.
> 
> I did my build like 11 years ago so I don't recall many specifics. Mine was a Mission 5E3 kit and as far as I've seen Bruce is out of the kit business now. Shame because it was a really good kit. I've still got it and it's been 100% trouble free.


My kit is all from NextGen, you have to look really hard because they hide all the parts of the kit all over their website and you have to find them. It makes it rather a fun game 

As for cabs, I have the 12" for the Traynor. That will work well enough for plugging it in. If the 35w 4ohm works for a 5w champ, a 60w G12 Vibtage 30 should work for a 15W


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

As @Powdered Toast Man most eloquently noted - the only/correct/ideal/accept-no-substitutes speaker for a 5E3 is the Weber 21A125A!!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

DavidP said:


> As @Powdered Toast Man most eloquently noted - the only/correct/ideal/accept-no-substitutes speaker for a 5E3 is the Weber 21A125A!!


I will commit the sacrilege then and plug it into the TAE and that will cause the apocalypse, I think 

Then run it though my BX8A's... mua ha ha ha ha. I am purely evil.


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## DBS_180 (Oct 2, 2018)

I'm planning to do a 5E3 build soon myself. I'd reduce the coupling caps from .1uF, those values are pretty large. A full wave rectifier may be more reliable than a tube rectifier, you can mimic the "sag" via high-wattage dropping resistors off the PT secondary. Also consider voicing 1 channel differently than the other, since the only difference between the Bright and Normal channel is that 1 bright cap.


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## diyfabtone (Mar 9, 2016)

100 to 130 ohm, 10W resistor, in series after the diodes before the first cap will get you into the approximate voltage drop range (30-40) to increase the ps impedance for some 'sag' - about the same as having a 5Y3 instead of SS diodes. It could be switched too if you want the in/out option.


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## DBS_180 (Oct 2, 2018)

diyfabtone said:


> 100 to 130 ohm, 10W resistor, in series after the diodes before the first cap will get you into the approximate voltage drop range (30-40) to increase the ps impedance for some 'sag' - about the same as having a 5Y3 instead of SS diodes. It could be switched too if you want the in/out option.


Or even better, use two 5W 22-100 ohm resistors for the PT secondaries, and one 10W 10-47 ohm on the DC between bridge and filtering. This way no single resistor is doing all the work, thus less heat. That's what Lyle @ Psionic Audio recommended to me, resistor values will depend on how much voltage drop you're looking for.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I think it's fantastic that any of you think I have enough of a bloody clue as to what I am doing so as to be able to do it differently 

On a positive note, parts show up tomorrow so by this weekend I should be able to get started.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

DBS_180 said:


> A full wave rectifier may be more reliable than a tube rectifier


This is sacrilege 
More tubes=better 

....ok that might not be true, but they help cut down on the fire wood I have to burn.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Here we go again!










.....first I gotta figure out how to press turrets. My previous attempts were failures


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

So that wasn't too bad.

3/32 drill bit and then a M3 x 0.50 tap seems to be be the winning combination.

Its slow as molasses, but I got 3 of 31 done.










Straight enough for hand drilling.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Drill press works great for pressing turrets, pointy rod (bolt) instead of the drill bit.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

WCGill said:


> Drill press works great for pressing turrets, pointy rod (bolt) instead of the drill bit.


I got a small rubber mallet that does the job, it is not the most effective way I can tell you that. A press would be ideal!

Maybe someday I'll graduate to something better but for how infrequently I do this, im ok doing it slowly.

I was gonna put em in the vice, but I figured getting the alignment right might be a problem and I would be mighty choked if I broke that board somewhere close to the last one 

I'm just excited to work with turrets. They seem a lot better than eyelets and I like the idea of being able to feed wire to the bottom of them and solder it there as opposed to having to expose it out of the board.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I love my 5E3. These days It's easier to plug into my Spark, but I know I'll use the 5E3 sometime. It was a great winter project and sounds amazing. As with most projects, I did take it to a skilled tech to go over it and make sure it was safe et cetera.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I love that @Milkman it is wonderful!

Seems like a rite of passage to put one of these things together and this time around I want to really take my time and make it pretty. I still have every intention of making it a head and planting it inside of a wooden box. I wanna have the purdiest head around. Lord knows it won't ever leave my house, so making it robust is not really my priority. Those little chunks of hollow glass are expensive, I want to be able to enjoy them


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Mark Brown said:


> I love that @Milkman it is wonderful!
> 
> Seems like a rite of passage to put one of these things together and this time around I want to really take my time and make it pretty. I still have every intention of making it a head and planting it inside of a wooden box. I wanna have the purdiest head around. Lord knows it won't ever leave my house, so making it robust is not really my priority. Those little chunks of hollow glass are expensive, I want to be able to enjoy them


I also built a nice Matchless Spitfire clone and used some salvaged hardwood knobs from an old RCA console radio.

I really need to plug these things in more often.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

It is a really fun hobby. I put down my soldering gun after the champ and a few failed pedal builds, but I knew it would come roaring back when the interest showed up again. 

It isn't the cheapest hobby, that is for certain, but given the going rate of a lot of these particular circuits and the amps they represent, it is an economical way to get to experience the tones... or some bullshit like that. 

I figure I couldn't probably find a working 5E3 head for $500 dollars and that is what this will end up costing me, plus I know all the components used are of the best quality and the workmanship, well that is yet to be determined. 

I get a lot of joy from it, I like tinkering with things, using my hands and I really enjoy the sense of accomplishment that comes from producing a working unit. 

If I could find a way to monetize producing these things, it would really help in the hobby. One can only build themselves so many amp heads to keep before they run out of matrimonial support


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## Alan Small (Dec 30, 2019)




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## DBS_180 (Oct 2, 2018)

Mark Brown said:


> I'm just excited to work with turrets. They seem a lot better than eyelets and I like the idea of being able to feed wire to the bottom of them and solder it there as opposed to having to expose it out of the board.


You don't need to feed the component all the way to the bottom of the turret, that'll make it a bit of a PITA if/when you try swapping components the future. Trust me


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

DBS_180 said:


> You don't need to feed the component all the way to the bottom of the turret, that'll make it a bit of a PITA if/when you try swapping components the future. Trust me 🫤


I have zero intention of doing that. I'm taking about feeding the lines from the tubes into the bottom port on the post, that way there is no ugly mess to observe. Frankly I cannot envision anything on the top.... but I could be wrong


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## DBS_180 (Oct 2, 2018)

Mark Brown said:


> I have zero intention of doing that. I'm taking about feeding the lines from the tubes into the bottom port on the post, that way there is no ugly mess to observe. Frankly I cannot envision anything on the top.... but I could be wrong


ah, gotcha, all good


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Mark Brown said:


> I'm just excited to work with turrets. They seem a lot better than eyelets and I like the idea of being able to feed wire to the bottom of them and solder it there as opposed to having to expose it out of the board.


Honestly, having done both, I'd never use turrets again. Like the man says......


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

WCGill said:


> Honestly, having done both, I'd never use turrets again. Like the man says......


I like the way turrets look (not that that matters) and they might be easier to solder to, but I worry they could become loose later and cause shorts.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Milkman said:


> I like the way turrets look


This is 100% of my reasoning. There is no more or less of a reason 

I was thinking of dropping a dob of CA glue at the base of them, but I really don't think it will be a requirement. It would take a LOT to get them out. Having reamed threads into the holes that get crushed with the insertion, in theory, the threads should all be "fin down" so to speak and work almost like tines to hold them. That is at least my hopeful make believe.


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## diyfabtone (Mar 9, 2016)

I've used both, eyelets are easier for me but turrets do look cool! Good luck Mark!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

diyfabtone said:


> I've used both, eyelets are easier for me but turrets do look cool! Good luck Mark!


What about eyelets is easier for you?

I struggled mightily to get components aligned nice and properly held when soldering. I firmly believe that my only salvation was using silver solder as it does not have the elasticity(?) of a tin lead solder as it cools and is less susceptible to failure.


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## diyfabtone (Mar 9, 2016)

Easier to stuff three or four leads into the larger hole and easier to modify/repair latter ... which always comes sooner than I expect! I don't use silver solder anymore - its really hard to flow.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

diyfabtone said:


> Easier to stuff three or four leads into the larger hole and easier to modify/repair latter ... which always comes sooner than I expect! I don't use silver solder anymore - its really hard to flow.


It is really hard to flow. Once I switched back to 60/40 life got a lot better. Tinning was much easier and it was easier to distinguish a clean solder as I find with the silver, everything looked nice and shiny.

Having never experienced turrets, I may change my stance, but I think for my purposes I will like them. We shall see how that turns out in reality.


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## Alan Small (Dec 30, 2019)

I have used silver to solder box corners when i build from flat stock...it is stronger, I think


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Ta da!










That turned out pretty slick!

Now I can run off and populate it. For being all hand drilled and placed im going to call it a win even if a few of them are slightly not perfect. That's how you can tell it is hand crafted with love.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Mark Brown said:


> Ta da!
> 
> View attachment 452195
> 
> ...



I agree. 

Anyway, they don't need to be perfect looking any more than a painting needs to sound good.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I just spent 10 minutes trying to figure out why I don't have any 220R anywhere. I ordered them, I can see them in the pick slip... well I give you this 










This is on you @jbealsmusic LOL
that or the fact that I'm a dottard.

I mean, one would logically assume no one wrote 2200 HM resistors!

.....this might not be the right hobby for me 🤣


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Let it snow

Le tits now


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Well.... after I got the whole 2200 ohm resistor thing under control I discovered I put turrets in the wrong side of the board. This caused me to have to invert the circuit after the B3 filter cap. No biggie.... as long as I actually remember to wire 8t that way when the time comes. I'm not positive on how well that's gonna go.

Either way, so far so good! Which is easy to say before tubes or power or any of that actually important stuff.

Not gonna lie, so far, I love the turrets.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I just loved working with them too. And I did the same thing you did, wrapped around the outside the first time. Hint, you can stick ends of wires in the top hole and solder there, it looks nicer  And, easier to pull the mistakes back off, don't have to unwind wire.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

keto said:


> I just loved working with them too. And I did the same thing you did, wrapped around the outside the first time. Hint, you can stick ends of wires in the top hole and solder there, it looks nicer  And, easier to pull the mistakes back off, don't have to unwind wire.


I want to use the tops and bottoms only for leads, it might be stupid, but I made it my mission. 

.....funny, that board material looks familiar


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Need a little help here guys, I dont expect this is gonna be a problem but I might as well ask.

So, remember the trannies are getting top mounted, as well as the tubes so obviously this will not actually be laying on the circuit... 🤔

I have the two power tubes over on the left there ny the tranny because that's about where they go in the circuit, the rectifier tube is centered between the two trannies and the pair of pre are over on the right, again where they are more or less in the circuit.

In that dead middle space, I am looking to install 3 pots, vol/vol/tone.

I know it's not conventional, but it shouldn't be an issue right?


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

They said it shouldn't be done.... I didn't listen.

I'm gonna have one sexy fire that's all I know.

So don't criticize the top too bad. I tried wrapping copper foil around a sheet of plywood. That was a mistake. it doesn't work, it needs to get glued to be flat and less bubbled and like. That's ok, that is the purpose of a mock up. Learning and all.










Plus the tension i pulled into the copper warped the ply. That's ok, I got a plan for that too!


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

try using 2 pieces of 1x2 and some clamps .... sandwich the copper between the 2 pieces of wood and clamp it ... then hammer the sides 90 degrees till the edges crisp up.

see poor man's sheet metal brake ....
do the longer sides first , then snip the corners out and cut the wood down for shorter sides and repeat.

insert plywood and glue / clamp and let dry


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

oldjoat said:


> try using 2 pieces of 1x2 and some clamps .... sandwich the copper between the 2 pieces of wood and clamp it ... then hammer the sides 90 degrees till the edges crisp up.
> 
> see poor man's sheet metal brake ....
> do the longer sides first , then snip the corners out and cut the wood down for shorter sides and repeat.
> ...


The copper only measures all of 0.16mm. I don't know that it is worth the effort not to just glue it and slap some weight on it over night. Although... if I did glue the top, I could bend the sides a lot easier. You might be on to something


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Duracell 2.0 turned out a lot better










Don't mind the back two mitres or that it's a bit out of square. Those are just held on right now with two 23g headless pins. Still need to get the fostner bits in there to get rid of some wood for the components.

Moving along now


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

A good start for a high-end stereo. Some audiophiles, pay top dollar for the wood-style.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Paul Running said:


> A good start for a high-end stereo. Some audiophiles, pay top dollar for the wood-style.


I love wood man, there are some gorgeous pieces out there in the world.

I know I was ill advised to put said amp in said chassis but if you look at the space, it's a 3.5 inch box by 11x6 internal dimensions. All the hot components are going top side and I beefed up all the resistors (barring two) to 5w monsters. I dont think it's gonna cause me any harm. Plus, even if it fries itself, at least it will be pretty!

I plan on making a new desk/wall unit when this is complete and I plan to use walnut, some maple and you guessed it, copper so this build will sit in nicely. My hope is to actually build an amp head rack using copper pipe when its all said and done so that will be pretty damn sexy.


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## diyfabtone (Mar 9, 2016)

I would keep the preamp tubes in-line with the circuit card, not with the tranny. They should be as far as feasible from any piece of iron to minimise EMI.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

or shields over the tubes.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

oldjoat said:


> or shields over the tubes.


Tube shields are like condoms. Sure they work really good, but they take away from the experience.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Step drill bit for the win!










The sockets fit JUST into the aluminum with the socket above plane about 1mm. The idea is to get this plate all drilled for sockets and the transformers then mount it to the wood/copper. Then I'll drill centre holes from the aluminum and use fostner bits from the top, probably about 3.5mm diameter bigger than the required spacing to allow for some heat dissipation around them. Might work....


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

You're a ninja, man.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

WCGill said:


> You're a ninja, man.


I think you spelled idiot wrong


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

I think the lead dress will be 'interesting' given this design. Have you thought about that yet?


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

DavidP said:


> I think the lead dress will be 'interesting' given this design. Have you thought about that yet?


Shhhhh

I've been thinking about how in the hell to make that work for days lol


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## diyfabtone (Mar 9, 2016)

That's a pretty good hole for a step-bit - nice and steady does it I guess!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

diyfabtone said:


> That's a pretty good hole for a step-bit - nice and steady does it I guess!


Gotta go steady or the thing will break my bloody wrist. When it catches it gets angry!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Soooooo question time again...

I just discovered I have 3 linear taper 1M pots. I need to make them Log pots. I found this little diddy and it make sense to me, figure that plan will work??



https://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/pot_taper_amz_168.pdf



Adding a resistor between the wiper and the ground seems to make sense to me.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

nice in theory , but the closer you get to one end of the wiper, the values change the total pot resistance too.
so that 1M pot becomes 500k at one end of the wiper .... assuming you use a 1M additional resistor.

just use the pots or buy new ones . both will work , but the linear will run out of sensitivity towards the max setting.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

So when I built an amp out of stupidly thick aluminum I said.... never again, ill just buy a chassis.

Then I planned this build and said... oh man, I'll build it out of wood, I like working with wood!

Sure I do... but holy hell this is gonna be a pain in the rear. Just got the output jack installed. It only took a 7/8 forstner bit, a 1/4 pilot bit and a 13/32 bit for the hole. No biggie, not a pain in the ass at all.

Sure looks sweet though


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

look on the bright side 
you can sand the alum to look brushed (and clear coat)
you can put a pencil in a drill and use it to give it a machined look ( aka swirled ceiling stucco )
you can paint it with pearl base and do kandy kolor or metal flake.
you can paint chameleon (paint color shift)


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

diyfabtone said:


> That's a pretty good hole for a step-bit - nice and steady does it I guess!


I was thinking the same thing, occurs to me I do not know how to use a step drill!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

MarkM said:


> I was thinking the same thing, occurs to me I do not know how to use a step drill!


The key is to go slow and hold on for dear life!!!

That aluminum is much too thick and stiff to really be using such a large step in a hand drill, but that is what I have to work with. When it drops into the next step climbing up on that size, you have a 50/50 shot of breaking your wrist or the aluminum spinning out and going for a ride. I only got the one hole done as I wanted to limit my exposure. 

When I did all this the first time I had folded the chassis already into the "box" that it would be. Let me tell you that was a much harder affair.



DavidP said:


> I think the lead dress will be 'interesting' given this design. Have you thought about that yet?


As I had said previously, I have been thinking about this. It really shouldn't be too bad. All the tube sockets and pots are getting mounted on the top plate so can be wired easily enough, the HT wires are going to get stuffed into the base of the turrets and then all the rest on the top. If I install the board inverted to the top, it really should go quite easily. I am going to be placing rather large standoffs on the bottom so the board floats more or less in the centre of the chassis space. If I wire all the tube sockets and label them before I place the board, it should be really simple 🤞


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

Mark Brown said:


> The key is to go slow and hold on for dear life!!!
> 
> That aluminum is much too thick and stiff to really be using such a large step in a hand drill, but that is what I have to work with. When it drops into the next step climbing up on that size, you have a 50/50 shot of breaking your wrist or the aluminum spinning out and going for a ride. I only got the one hole done as I wanted to limit my exposure.
> 
> ...


I have to make a confession, I support a great women and myself as an EHS professional!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

MarkM said:


> I have to make a confession, I support a great women and myself as an EHS professional!


I'll just dial 9-1 now and hope I can get the last 1 in there if the time comes


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

That's all done!

Now to carve out the power transformer and plot some holes for the Output Transformer and voila, we have a mounting plate.

I wasn't thrilled with how my top turned out, but I think I have a plan for that. I think I can cheat, flip the complete chassis and trace the opening on the lid, then I can transfer that image to a 1:1 SVG with the scanner and print it on the laser. This would have a twofold benefit as then I would have an exact router template to route out a shelf in the chassis for the lid to sit in eliminating the need for the carpentry to be 100% exact while still appearing to be so and producing an infinitely reproduced top. Thank you technology!


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I really have no clue to much of what you're doing or going to do, but I am sure enjoying watching. It's like a great movie without subtitles.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Verne said:


> I really have no clue to much of what you're doing or going to do, but I am sure enjoying watching. It's like a great movie without subtitles.


Well thanks. Most the time buddy, I don't know what I am doing and just fuddle along in the hope that some of my more.. uh "unique" processes might pan out.

Presently, I am trying to get this garbage toy of a CNC router to make a rectangle for my power supply. This thing is tempramental and just about not up to the task. On a positive note, I do not require the precision that making PCB board was, so I can suffer with it. It is a strong argument for buying a nice, proper, powerful CNC however as the utility is endless. Almost as much as the pain this POS causes me.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

DOOOO IIIITTT!!!!! There..........I've done my part to help talk you out of a better CNC machine.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Well.... after dicking around with the CNC for over an hour we just went old school and got out the circular saw! Take that technology!

I over shot the lower left corner s touch, but its literally just a plate inside the chassis you will never see and honestly the power supply mounting screw will hide it anyway.

Winning!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

This is just a vanity shot of me at my happiest. Nothing to have to worry about but that what my heart desires.










Just laminated the new tops with all the cutouts to match the plate. When I get home ill clad it in copper and see how well that is gonna work. I got high hopes after last time!

Off to my kids taekwando test so that will give that time to set. This patience thing might just pan out.


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## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

Cool i didnt know you were a bodybuilder?


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Thunderboy1975 said:


> Cool i didnt know you were a bodybuilder?


about the only thing I won't work on is my body


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I really hope this whole top thing works out. Someday I have to get some battery acid and try anodizing aluminum. Then I could just copper the actual plate or make it blue, or some other fun colour and save all this nightmare of waiting.

....anyone try anodizing aluminum? 
I've seen some pretty cool videos of some pretty crazy people doing it and it looks rather up my alley. I do have a small (large) collection of old car batteries around the property. Might be fun!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Oh hell yeah!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Ok.... so unless I really go and flubb this up routing it to sit flush with the top, its gonna look freaking amazing!










It is a far cry from perfection, there are crease fold lines on the circles but they are rather consistent and add to the whole "hand crafted" vibe. Thats just a polite way of saying they aren't perfect....

"I had it all, even the glass dishes with tiny bubbles and imperfections. Proof that they were crafted by the honest, simple hardworking indigenous peoples of....where ever"

You can scout the aluminum plate underneath where everything will bolt to and mount for grounding and strength. I'm gonna go ahead and say I nailed it.










I did make the holes intentionally larger on the copper/wood as the tubes have slightly wider bases than the sockets and because I thought it might help for heat. If I'm wrong, at least I'm wrong in the right direction!

I would like to find an alternative to this as it is very labour intensive and adds failure possibilities I would like to eliminate. Problem is I'm not prepared to pay the >$130 dollars a true copper plate would cost and aluminum is just rather plain.

Anyhow, im stoked to get everything mounted and back to soldering soon!

Lemme know what ya think! worth it?


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Routing template complete.

Of course wrapping the copper over the ply made the piece I had cut it out of not work as a template. So, this is 0.5mm longer and 0.75mm wider. Now, it is tight fit sexy times.

Now we go mount everything to the plate!!

I'll catch you yet @Alan Small


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## Alan Small (Dec 30, 2019)

Mark Brown said:


> Routing template complete.
> 
> Of course wrapping the copper over the ply made the piece I had cut it out of not work as a template. So, this is 0.5mm longer and 0.75mm wider. Now, it is tight fit sexy times.
> 
> ...


Lookin good eh


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Alan Small said:


> Lookin good eh


It is a slow process. I said somewhere at the beginning of the thread that I wanted to take my time and make something pretty. Functional is all well and good, but that isn't really a challenge as I am just soldering by the numbers and I like to craft things that I can be proud of. If this turns out like I intend, it will officially be the nicest thing I have ever made. Hands down.

Someday I am gonna buy a prefab chassis and board and build an amp in 2 hours flat, just for the hell of it. 

This is not that time.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Last one for now, it's time to put up the tap set for tonight. I did get 1 socket mounted.

I swore I wouldn't do this again after last time. Up and down I said I wouldn't tap holes for bolts but here I an again tapping holes.

Guess the issue is it works really well. Hard to beat a threaded plate for security and a little thread lock on there will keep em that way forever. The price to pay I suppose.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Mark Brown said:


> Last one for now, it's time to put up the tap set for tonight. I did get 1 socket mounted.
> 
> I swore I wouldn't do this again after last time. Up and down I said I wouldn't tap holes for bolts but here I an again tapping holes.
> 
> ...


The best part of this thread is zooming into the reflection on that tube and seeing a big caveman with a full mast erection and a smile that could light up a bachelorette party.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Always12AM said:


> The best part of this thread is zooming into the reflection on that tube and seeing a big caveman with a full mast erection and a smile that could light up a bachelorette party.


You sir, have an astute mind for observation. That and a vivid imagination. Both of which I fully appreciate.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Always12AM said:


> The best part of this thread is zooming into the reflection on that tube and seeing a big caveman with a full mast erection and a smile that could light up a bachelorette party.


You know everybody is doing this now. Mark's semi nakedness is no longer his own secret. baaaaahahahahaa


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Verne said:


> You know everybody is doing this now. Mark's semi nakedness is no longer his own secret. baaaaahahahahaa


It never was a secret. I have been very open about my displeasure of wearing shirts. I usually have pants on though, so that is a plus.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Verne said:


> You know everybody is doing this now. Mark's semi nakedness is no longer his own secret. baaaaahahahahaa


I like people to wake up first thing and panic and have to go through all their pictures.

That’s the essence of friendship to me. Creating panic.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Mark Brown said:


> It never was a secret. I have been very open about my displeasure of wearing shirts. I usually have pants on though, so that is a plus.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Ohhhhhhhhhh Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaah










Well worth the effort!

I still need to get the sockets for the 12Ax7/Y7 so they will sit a little higher but that looks sharp from where I'm sitting. Someday i'de like to try a platformed top to give it some dimension but seeing as this is build 2, I got time to learn. 

Off to the hardware store to get some more bobbles.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Gonna heat shield under the toobz?


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

keto said:


> Gonna heat shield under the toobz?


Heavens no. There is some copper there and the plate is aluminum. It gonna be fine. My temp gun put the 5Y3 on the champ around 130 C and the 6v6 at about 160 C at the bases where I can measure. That is well below the flash point of Birch 

Somewhere around 300 C I think is around the temperature I would be worried about.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Not the most scientific test and lord knows my fingers are pretty calloused but I have been cooking the champ for about an hour now and I just grabbed the bases of the tubes with my fingers. If that didn't even burn me, I feel like I have nothing much to worry about.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

When using Forstner bits, it is wise to just use the biggest one you have access to. That lesson was learned from right to left.










Next time, im going to a plate.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Well... its a long way away from perfect but I can honestly say I tried my very best and that is good enough for me!

The top fits like a glove, even if I did manage to jump my bearing twice.... on the front. Why did it have to be the front! Oh well, hoofer doofer dust and some glue will hide all my sins. I finished all the cut outs too so tomorrow I can get a coat of Tung Oil on the chassis and start that process. Probably take the week to get it oiled to the point I can buff it to a sheen. Time well spent.

Still waiting on NextGen (Canada Post) for 3 pots and a 3pdt toggle switch so no need to be in a hurry. It ain't without flaws, but I think it's going to be gorgeous none the less.










Three pots and a switch up front.










In/out Jack and a toggle for bright/normal in back. Plus the power and fuse.

Copper popped a bit inserting the too to the route out. I'll address it when I pull it apart for the final, it isnt hurting anything at the moment.

I dont think I would do this again. Full aluminum plate for the top or nothing. This is a lot of extra work for a look that I only accomplished about 70% as well as I had hoped for. Oh well, at least it is fun!










Kinda looks about right from the upside down


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Progressing VERY nicely!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Thanks @greco there are flaws, as is present in most of what I do, but the effort was real. When the tubes are in it those copper folds all but disappear, the top is an easy fix on the fold when it goes back in. The fatal flaw there was not allowing enough material to fold under the top enough. My mistake and it was my last piece so I went with it. I was trying to avoid the pressure that comes from the double fold. In the end it was more of a problem this way but seeing as I am pulling it all out of my rear end as I go along, well, I can accept it. 

I am really looking forward to getting back to soldering! I never expected this to chew up so much time but such is the nature of what I am trying to accomplish. 

Not bad for a prototype build I suppose. 

The best part is, no matter how bad it looks I bet it still sounds sweet!!!

Oh and don't worry, I still have my alligator clips and resistor at the ready. I didn't kill myself last time and I'm not going down without a fight this time around either.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Tung oil for the win.

First of probably 8 coats, then polish.

She thinks my walnuts sexy?










With the first coat on i can see what needs some attention. Apparenlty I misses some 23 gauge pins. Oopsies


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Told ya I would get that back crumple bit fixed.

So, everything is in place and now I just have to figure out how to solder it. I dont think that is going to be as easy as I want it to be.

Time will tell. Time and a lot of profanity.



















See, crumple free!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

It's a bajeebus mess right now... but I have all the sockets wired and labelled and tomorrow I can get the circuit in and hopefully crank it on!


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Do none of the jacks or pots have to be grounded too?
edit, ie., by physical contact to metal, beyond what is inherent in the circuit. I should know, but I forget.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

keto said:


> Do none of the jacks or pots have to be grounded too?
> edit, ie., by physical contact to metal, beyond what is inherent in the circuit. I should know, but I forget.


They will be. I'm not positive they do..... but I'm not taking that chance


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I am about to fire it up Gentlemen, if you don't hear from me again, you know what happened.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

If we don't hear from you again is likely because it's so awesome you can't pull yourself away from it.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Verne said:


> If we don't hear from you again is likely because it's so awesome you can't pull yourself away from it.


We both know that is not what I meant LOL

.... but seeing as I am here, I have heater voltage!!


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Mark Brown said:


> We both know that is not what I meant LOL
> 
> .... but seeing as I am here, I have heater voltage!!


AND you didn't determine that by licking it. Good job.


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

I'll be carefully watching for any smoke rising from across the Salish Sea...


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

It all fired up and what have you. Voltages check, but I have no sound. I can only assume it has something to do with my ridiculous "build an amp in a wood box" and I haven't figured out what yet lol


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I am officially done for today. 

I altered the ground bus to see if that maybe was the culprit. Then I took a shock at something a little over 300V from the input jack. I neglected to remember there was a cap connected to that bus that was now not grounded to anything but the guitar output jack, seeing as everything is wood and all. Oopsies. That shit hurts. On a positive note, I sit cross legged in my chair so I made a really poor path to ground but I still got it real good. 

Then I did it again LOL. 

That is when you know it is time to stop for the day. 


I am a little frustrated, I get nothing for an output, not even a hum. There is almost a hum when you first turn it on, but after about 20 seconds there is a tiny almost inaudible pop like sound and then silence. Having been shocked twice, that is enough for one day but I will get it sorted. 
Still looks hella sharp


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I hope you trace it back in a timely fashion Mark. At least you were able to post about it, not just wiggle around the floor until found.............twice.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Verne said:


> I hope you trace it back in a timely fashion Mark. At least you were able to post about it, not just wiggle around the floor until found.............twice.


It hurt real bad man. I should have known better but I was at it for hours and frankly was getting sloppy. That is the time that people die. Dying is not worth it. If that were the case I would just go buy one


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

You dodged the bullet twice -- consider yourself very fortunate! 300V is not good for the mind and/or body!! Yes, good idea to not tempt fate three times today!!!
Tomorrow, starting at the power supply (with power OFF, of course!!), double-check every lead and connection against the schematic/layout. Do you have a light bulb limiter (easy to make if not)? That's a very handy tool when firing up a new build for the first time.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Mark Brown said:


> It all fired up and what have you. Voltages check, but I have no sound. I can only assume it has something to do with my ridiculous "build an amp in a wood box" and I haven't figured out what yet lol


If it helps any, my first amp (5F1) was built in a metal box and it didn't make a sound either when I finished.
No idea what I did wrong. The amp kicked around for 5+ years while I robbed every useable part off it. Finally I built it again and it worked, and it was good.

Oh, and ah......hella sharp is good, but it ain't worth dying for. Please be more careful


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

The champ I build fired up first round. It was farty, so I dicked around with a million different things that made no difference. Till I realized I put a 250K resistor where a 250 should be. I assume I did the same stupid there here some place. I will find it. 

Right now I am just playing guitar, that is much easier and it hasn't ever tried to kill me


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

keto said:


> AND you didn't determine that by licking it. Good job.


Jeez, am I taking this back less than a day later?? Holy shit, man, don’t.do.that.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

keto said:


> Jeez, am I taking this back less than a day later?? Holy shit, man, don’t.do.that.


It wasn't smart, but I can honestly say I didn't lick it. When I out the meter in after I got goobered I realized how lucky it was I only had a tingly arm


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Lincoln said:


> *Please be more careful*


Quoted for emphasis!
@Mark Brown I did mention ("stress' is actually a better word) my concerns for your safety a few ("several" is actually a better word) times in the past.

Hope you are OK and still making sounds even if your amp isn't!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

greco said:


> Quoted for emphasis!
> @Mark Brown I did mention ("stress' is actually a better word) my concerns for your safety a few ("several" is actually a better word) times in the past.
> 
> Hope you are OK and still making sounds even if your amp isn't!


I'm fine. Arm is still a little tingly but thats ok. Still has nothing on the 240V robot coup that knocked me straight out years ago. Now that was an experience!

Something, someday will kill me. There is a strong possibility it will be from my own negligence. At least the fear is back


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

A little warning here, you don't even have to touch HV to get the message from God, close proximity will suffice. I was working on a build and reached over the chassis for a tool and got 450V or so, propelled me 8 ft through a doorway onto the floor, onto my arthritic wrist, which has never been the same since. Please be careful.


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

Hmm, I wonder if there should be a "Preventable" commercial about this?? Mark could make a cameo appearance and provide a testimonial!
Seriously, I expect more than a few of us have had a close encounter of this kind (yes, I'm a member of the club), and that is when we cultivate and hopefully maintain a healthy dose of fear and respect for tube amp building/repair.
Yes, this IS rocket science!!!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

DavidP said:


> Hmm, I wonder if there should be a "Preventable" commercial about this?? Mark could make a cameo appearance and provide a testimonial!
> Seriously, I expect more than a few of us have had a close encounter of this kind (yes, I'm a member of the club), and that is when we cultivate and hopefully maintain a healthy dose of fear and respect for tube amp building/repair.
> Yes, this IS rocket science!!!


No man, that just wouldn't work at all. It would just be me, standing around smoking and saying "Don't be an idiot. I mean, I am an idiot and take it from me it isn't fun". That isn't going to change people's minds. 

On a fun sidebar. My mother's only and ever lasting advice to me was only ever "Don't do anything stupid". I think she said this in full acknowledgement that just about everything I was heading out the door to do was going to be stupid however having raised me I think she felt it absolved her of her obligations as a parent to feel bad that her son was a fully fledged idiot. God rest her soul, Now I only have @greco to tell me not to kill myself but he is much more polite about it and I don't think that it cuts as deep


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

I used to know an industrial electrician that licked his thumb and touched wires to see if things were live. This was 600Vac power, on a ladder at the peak of a 16' ceiling. 

I can't bring myself to lick a 9v to see if the battery is still any good.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Mark Brown said:


> Now I only have @greco to tell me not to kill myself but he is much more polite about it and I don't think that it cuts as deep


I'm not gonna be polite anymore ....you f%^& 'n fully fledged idiot. Someone has take over for your mother in an attempt to ensure that you "Don't do anything stupid"!


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

When I build a proto-type, after the power supply is wired and tested as functional, I build the output stage first, check the static voltages and test it with an audio gen and scope...I work backyards to the input stage, checking and testing each stage as I go.
There are less surprises if you test and build in a sequence.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Paul Running said:


> When I build a proto-type, after the power supply is wired and tested as functional, I build the output stage first, check the static voltages and test it with an audio gen and scope...I work backyards to the input stage, checking and testing each stage as I go.
> There are less surprises if you test and build in a sequence.


Paul, my biggest surprise is when it works


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

@Mark Brown Good to see you're posting this morning. No emergency room visits we should know about? How's the arm?


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Verne said:


> @Mark Brown Good to see you're posting this morning. No emergency room visits we should know about? How's the arm?


All is well. I have had the whole stupid thing apart and back together again this morning and still no output. It isn't even 6 a.m. yet! I do know that all the resistor values are correct and sockets wired to the right posts, so that is something. It is always so frustrating because you just cannot come up with a reason and then eventually poof, there it is. 

At least it looks pretty. If nothing else, it is very expensive shelf art


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I have a suspicion that it is shorting to ground somewhere because when I unplug it, my filter caps drop down to close to 10V DC without being drained but I have yet to sort out the how and why of it all.


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## diyfabtone (Mar 9, 2016)

You're on the right track - think of the Alanis song lyric 'One hand in my pocket, the other holding a test probe'


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)




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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Getting somewhere. It starts to hum then pops and you can see something go dead in V4 and a heater dies maybe? I don't rightly know because I am not that smart... but I am on it!

After it does down, there is a noticeable drop in brightness in the tube. This is the second 6v6 I have had in that position with the same results so it isn't that.


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## DBS_180 (Oct 2, 2018)

Can you provide a current gut-shot showing the wiring?


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

DBS_180 said:


> Can you provide a current gut-shot showing the wiring?


Honestly no because the board covers it all. I don't do anything conventionally 

Next time I take the board off I will though.


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## DBS_180 (Oct 2, 2018)

Mark Brown said:


> Honestly no because the board covers it all. I don't do anything conventionally
> 
> Next time I take the board off I will though.


 We can help you with a current gut-shot, since it's not working. Wouldn't want you to get shocked again, either.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

We have lift off ladies and gentlemen!!

I completely missed running V2 cathode resistor/bypass cap to ground. It still sounds like garbage, but at least it makes guitar sounds. Now I can run around and sort out wtf else is wrong with it


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Something is terribly wrong in my something or other. The tone control works like an AM radio, all the way off it kinda works a bit but after that it tries to tune in various bands of "Fuzz Squeal". The volume pots get all kinds of drunk. Past about 3 it just turns into more fuzz..... then after about 6... well, I won't tell you what happens there. 
Volume down real, real low and strumming like stroking a babies cheek and you can hear the amps voice in there, it is going to be sweet but I got a bit of trouble shooting to do. Seeing as 20 minutes ago it didn't do anything I am going to go ahead and call this a good step forward. I can sort out stupid.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I have this sneaking suspicion that my bus grounding on the pots to chassis is the culprit here. I will keep messing with it later but for the here and now it just isn't moving anywhere and after 3 hours I am tapped on that train. I am satisfied for now that it makes guitar adjacent sounds and that means the fundamental circuitry is correct and from there it is just going to be a game of determining what foolish thing I did or didn't do. I can live with that, it takes up most of my free time as it is 

Given the relationship between the pots and tone control and the high squeal they produce when dimed I can't help but think everything is in this area.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Oh an I almost forgot. Here is the jumbly mess that happens when I start clipping and snipping and hunting for the problem. I'll clean that up someday. Or not... once the bottom plate goes on I will never see it again 










It only looks about half as bad in person... which is still pretty bad 🤣 

But up on top it is pure sex!


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Glad to hear you're getting it sorted, and without any more uplifting experiences.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Glad to hear you're getting it sorted, and without any more uplifting experiences.


It's always something so stupid you just overlook it. As for the funky sounds, I'm honestly not surprised. There are more things done wrong than right with the design of the chassis and layout. Nothing that cannot be resolved but I cannot forsee the problems I will create myself until I do 

And your right, the only shock I experienced today was when it kinda worked lol


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

It is amazing how many mistakes you miss the first....second... third, BUT NOT THE FOURTH TIME!!

Maybe this time baby!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Good Luck...Stand well back just in case it blows!


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)




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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

greco said:


> Good Luck...Stand well back just in case it blows!





Verne said:


> View attachment 455798


Once was enough of a healthy reminder of what not to do lads, don't worry. I get a little nervous every time I plug a guitar jack into it though 

I can't figure this one out. Nothing seems to be "Wrong" any longer and it still has the same issue as before. 

I changed out all the pots, just in case, moved the wiring from the V4 Grid as I had it in the wrong position, checked every single voltage against this









They all check within 10% and I still get the same GD problem. For the life of me, I cannot sort this one out. I think at this point I am just going to order some new coupling caps and filter caps and rewire the board. Then I can eliminate that as a thing. Other than that I honestly am running out of things to do that are wrong.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Mark Brown said:


> ...I honestly am running out of things to do that are wrong.


I never, ever, ever, thought I'd see you writing that!

Now, in all sincerity, Good Luck with getting this amp to make some musical noise!


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Have you tried threatening to throw it down a hill? I find that works.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

RBlakeney said:


> Have you tried threatening to throw it down a hill? I find that works.


But I live at the bottom of a hill and to do that I would have to get back up to the top. I feel we have been together long enough that the amp knows it would be an empty threat.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Mark Brown said:


> But I live at the bottom of a hill and to do that I would have to get back up to the top. I feel we have been together long enough that the amp knows it would be an empty threat.


Throw it up the hill.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

RBlakeney said:


> Throw it up the hill.


We need to have a serious discussion about my commitment to lethargy.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Is your output transformer wired correctly? Do you have it backwards on the primary and secondary.

I know nothing, just throwing out ideas on subjects I have little experience in.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Is your output transformer wired correctly? Do you have it backwards on the primary and secondary.
> 
> I know nothing, just throwing out ideas on subjects I have little experience in.


It sure is and just for good measure I wired it backwards to see if that would illicit any difference.

By the numbers, I cannot find anything wrong with this circuit. As of now, I suspect that my tone caps are causing some issues. I then suspect that I am being revisited for sins I have committed in the past for which I would have never paid a price. This is the price.

I have been over this with a fine toothed comb. There is nothing that is amiss. All voltages and I mean all of them, be it at the sockets or on the board, measure within 10% of nominal. I have changed grounding paths, signal paths, Pots, tone caps, transformer wirings. Nothing. 

Im going to order all new caps and try again I guess as I would be out of options otherwise at this point. That is ok. Failure is part of the process. Not a part I enjoy..... but what is life without adversity.

WTB - Working 5E3 coming soon


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Mark Brown said:


> Im going to order all new caps


Why not just test all the caps? 
(if you are convinced they are the cause and if you have a meter that is capable of testing caps).
How can you get all the voltages so close at the test points if any/some of the caps are not good? (serious question).

Mrs. Greco gave me one of these many years ago for Christmas.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Oh.... mostly because that would me smart and if I happen to have enough caps on hand to build another one I can throw this one up or down a hill like Mr. Blakeney suggests.

There is a certain amount of joy I might actually get from that.

I should add that I have removed and tested everything


----------



## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

What @greco said…. Does your DMM test capacitance? I honestly can’t fathom how “tone caps” could be the issue here…


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

DavidP said:


> What @greco said…. Does your DMM test capacitance? I honestly can’t fathom how “tone caps” could be the issue here…


I cannot fathom how anything can be the issue here. I have measured ever cap, on an off circuit, verified ground and continuity, replaced, removed, rewired everything. Tomorrow I am going for a complete tear down and start again. There is nothing left to try. 

One thing I did notice and I don't know how you are supposed to get readings on then and I will admit that, but I am getting almost a 0 Ohm load on the speaker side of the output transformer across Black and Green and only about 450 across the brown and blue, No idea how the centre tap comes into play on these. I need to do more research.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Mark Brown said:


> I cannot fathom how anything can be the issue here. I have measured ever cap, on an off circuit, verified ground and continuity, replaced, removed, rewired everything. Tomorrow I am going for a complete tear down and start again. There is nothing left to try.
> 
> One thing I did notice and I don't know how you are supposed to get readings on then and I will admit that, but I am getting almost a 0 Ohm load on the speaker side of the output transformer across Black and Green and only about 450 across the brown and blue, No idea how the centre tap comes into play on these. I need to do more research.


I’m sticking with grounding being bad. I’m not basing this on anything other than I feel like saying it at 4am


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

RBlakeney said:


> I’m sticking with grounding being bad. I’m not basing this on anything other than I feel like saying it at 4am


I am almost positive it is bad grounding, but I am running out of options to ground it. Or just one of them shitty connections someplace that is invisible and insidious and will reveal itself only when I tear the whole thing apart and start again, so basically around 5pm this evening


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Mark Brown said:


> I am almost positive it is bad grounding, but I am running out of options to ground it. Or just one of them shitty connections someplace that is invisible and insidious and will reveal itself only when I tear the whole thing apart and start again, so basically around 5pm this evening


Get some of these thingys to replace these grounds. Sand the metal a little underneath incase there is any coating. 🤷
















Solder Lug - #6 Hole, Locking (pkg 10)


Locking terminal lugs, #6 ⅝" length, angled. Package of 10.




nextgenguitars.ca





also what are these cut white wires?


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

RBlakeney said:


> Get some of these thingys to replace these grounds. Sand the metal a little underneath incase there is any coating. 🤷
> View attachment 455900
> 
> 
> ...


I have some tag board I am going to add this time around. Things started nicer than what you see now but I moved and molested just about everything. Now it is just a jumbly mess so it is time to abort and start again.

It isn't like I didn't expect some amount of adversity having thought it was less than brilliant trying to stuff this all into a wooden box at the best of times.

I even swapped all the tubes around, which I am rather happy to say I have enough tubes to do, that made me feel important lol.

It is just being difficult, a condition I am familiar with because I can be that way too. I mean, where would the fun be if it just up and worked right out of the gate anyhow.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Mark Brown said:


> I have some tag board I am going to add this time around. Things started nicer than what you see now but I moved and molested just about everything. Now it is just a jumbly mess so it is time to abort and start again.
> 
> It isn't like I didn't expect some amount of adversity having thought it was less than brilliant trying to stuff this all into a wooden box at the best of times.
> 
> ...


Well now I am on the case, and let me tell you I’m a beginner hobbyist so I know nothing.
but when I built my 5e3 I had a ground connection issue ,and no sound when I went to fire it up due to one poor ground.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I have sound, it is low output, very low and turns to "fuzz overdrive" right quick and then has extremely low volume. Nothing I do seems to make it different which is quite strange.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Any chance you read a resistor wrong and are 'choking' it?


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

keto said:


> Any chance you read a resistor wrong and are 'choking' it?


I dont think so, specifically because I did that last time I was meticulous with following them. Then I checked them all following the bad bad sounds. So I'm going to rule that out at this point. It doesn't mean it's impossible though, I have discovered errors I had "checked off" previously.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Did you jiggle the cable? That's always the go to thing to do. That and unplugging it and plugging it back in.....lol.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

This is a great thread! Unfortunately, I don't do well with mysteries and /or suspense.

@Mark Brown Once again, Good Luck! 
I certainly admire your dedication and determination!


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Did you jiggle the cable? That's always the go to thing to do. That and unplugging it and plugging it back in.....lol.


Where were you a couple hours ago when the left channel crapped out on my PA? Jiggled the wires after fluckin around with it for an hour checking fuses etc, in some awkward position’s! It works now after some weinerslider.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Mark Brown said:


> I have sound, it is low output, very low and turns to "fuzz overdrive" right quick and then has extremely low volume. Nothing I do seems to make it different which is quite strange.


sounds like the result I got when I put 470K screen resistors into a JTM45 build. (instead of 470 ohm) Only your voltages aren't off the way mine were at the time. The Techs here picked up on it pretty quick. They're still giggling


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

That was the champ. I put a whatever it was kohm in place of..... just the ohms. oopsies


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

If it's any consolation, once you get it running, you're going to love it. I plugged mine in earlier just to remind me. Great cleans, even greater dirt.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Milkman said:


> If it's any consolation, once you get it running, you're going to love it. I plugged mine in earlier just to remind me. Great cleans, even greater dirt.


I dont doubt that man and to speak to @greco and his earlier comment about tenacity. I know just enough to know I don't have a clue what I am doing so I am fully prepared for failure going in. I happen to learn the most about the whole affair through the failure. As long as that failure eventually gives way to success :l


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Lincoln said:


> sounds like the result I got when I put 470K screen resistors into a JTM45 build. (instead of 470 ohm) Only your voltages aren't off the way mine were at the time. The Techs here picked up on it pretty quick. They're still giggling


Sir, I owe you an apology. Now, when I said what I said previously I meant it. I had checked all those values a million times (or at least 4) but unfortunately from the position I am in (IDIOT) I still managed to overlook the 220 resistors in place of the 220 K. See that K, because I didn't. Not when I ordered them, not when I installed them, not when I checked it, not when I checked it again. Tonight I literally pulled my computer monitor over to the mess I have now made and went again. There is was. AGAIN. 220 Ohm where it should have been 220,000 ohm.

Oh well. She sings now. There is still something a little funky going on with the tone stack but I don't give a shit right now. It works, it sounds glorious and it is only a little hummy. Now I have to go and make it all sexy again seeing as I have done nothing but molest it for days now and that isn't ideal.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

This feels necessary. For anyone that wonders..... this is the upper limit of how terrible of a job you can do and still have a working amplifier


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Until I try to build ANYTHING......then yours becomes a piece of art.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Mark Brown said:


> She sings now.


YES!!! Congrats!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

greco said:


> YES!!! Congrats!


There are still some gremlins, but I can deal with that. It is loud and proud and sounds like a guitar amp. It gets so frustrating trying to do this with my very limited knowledge of how it all works because when I run into trouble I don't really know what to do outside of checking and rechecking. I do not have the required level of understanding to know what is going on in regards to failure to correct it. So far, just not being a dummy would have sufficed, but when I look and double and triple check and still miss the obvious things it really does not fill me with confidence.

Be that as it may.... I get there 

I was afraid I might have to admit building an amp in a wooden box was a terrible idea against all sound advice that I was given


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Mark Brown said:


> I was afraid I might have to admit building an amp in a wooden box was a terrible idea against all sound advice that I was given


Personally, I think it looks amazing! 
Some tweaking and tidying and it will be right up there with a Dumble, IMO


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

@greco I always appreciate the kind words (even if I know you are lying  ) but I have to say, before I got in there and buggered it all up it wasn't so bad. Now I just have to get it back there.

I have done some black voodoo magic to the poor grounding bus and need to remedy that, which is fine as I would like to take some 14 gauge copper and use that, add lugs instead of wrapping the mounting screws. Truth be told, I will likely remake the whole circuit again. I can purchase what few components I need for about 40 dollars and reuse most of what is here. This always was to be a "proof of concept" build. I was not positive I could get away with bus grounding everything inside of a wooden box that was as likely to catch fire as sound good. Turns out it works well enough.

I am getting some weird grounding issues in the pots, I think because I do not have the proper capacitors in place, I forgot to order them and shoved in what I had. I do not think they are up to the voltages, or I have no addressed the odd grounding issues I created last night when I was splicing and dicing things to see what might help ( none of it did). I will put it all back the way Robinett has on his website and go from there. Tone stack grounded is the only thing that works proper right now, which is what leads me to believe it is the capacitors on it, time will tell.

None the matter, I can play it right now with the tone stack rolled off and it makes some really loud and fun sounds. I can deal with the rest as time sees fit but I was growing upset at the fact it was such a resounding failure and I could not seem to make any difference in it at all. That can be frustrating when you cannot even fathom what the issue is.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Maybe your need this sign (preferably cross stitched or crocheted to maintain the feng shui) on the wall near your electronics bench.

"MEASURE RESISTORS TWICE, SOLDER ONCE"


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Ah, the dreaded multiplyer band colour confusion.

I have one of those old cardboard resistor calculators with the wheels on them you used to be able to get at Radio Shack.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Ah, the dreaded multiplyer band colour confusion.
> 
> I have one of those old cardboard resistor calculators with the wheels on them you used to be able to get at Radio Shack.


I use my multi meter on everything. In the future, I am going to confirm colour codes as clearly that is a wonderful secondary approach that one can use to CONFIRM the value you are supposed to see Vs. what you are seeing. Dumb as it makes me, the brain sometimes just misses the obvious and I honestly did check them a few times. Just like last time, I saw 220 and just carried on.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Tone Stack Engaged!!!

Something is still wonky in the Volume pots, but that is one out of three resolved. I'll report back with good news soon I hope.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

keto said:


> Any chance you read a resistor wrong and are 'choking' it?


Just call me Kreskin.  For real, great to see you got it running, you'll have it tuned up tonight, I'd wager.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

keto said:


> Just call me Kreskin.  For real, great to see you got it running, you'll have it tuned up tonight, I'd wager.


Yeah, I was focused on what Lincoln said but you were in way under the gun. Sorry Mr. Keto. Now I have two apologies to make.

So to make up for it.... here we are.


__
https://soundcloud.com/mark-brown-171515057%2F5e3-proof-of-life

I can't believe how responsive to touch it is. It's silly. The champ you can essentially beat the living hell out of and the same sounds come out, this thing you hit it hard and it hits back. It still is gibbily but once again, forward progress.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Sounds pretty frickin sweet as is. If it's still not 100%..........can't wait for the final sound clip.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

One more for fun. I think the track title says it all 


__
https://soundcloud.com/mark-brown-171515057%2Fif-someone-that-could-play-played-this-thing-you-might-be-impressed


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Tube porn


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Congrats man! That sounds frigging excellent.

Way to stick with it.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Milkman said:


> Congrats man! That sounds frigging excellent.
> 
> Way to stick with it.


Thanks Mr. Milk. It is coming along. It is still in a state of incorrectness but if I don't touch it from the very narrow band of "working" that it does have it sounds sublime. I have 4 days off here coming up so that will give me the time I need to dial right down into it and get it going correctly. I am mostly impressed by the fact that I could build it at all inside of the silly wooden box. Someday I am going to get good at this but I can assure you I am really enjoying to hobby and the craft. I start to understand how and why you pump out so many guitars all the time. It gets to almost a level of addiction.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Mark Brown said:


> Thanks Mr. Milk. It is coming along. It is still in a state of incorrectness but if I don't touch it from the very narrow band of "working" that it does have it sounds sublime. I have 4 days off here coming up so that will give me the time I need to dial right down into it and get it going correctly. I am mostly impressed by the fact that I could build it at all inside of the silly wooden box. Someday I am going to get good at this but I can assure you I am really enjoying to hobby and the craft. I start to understand how and why you pump out so many guitars all the time. It gets to almost a level of addiction.


Almost?

LOL

Life's a journey, not a destination, no?


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Milkman said:


> Almost?
> 
> LOL
> 
> Life's a journey, not a destination, no?


Alright, almost is a strong understatement. It is an addiction like none I have ever known. There is something magical when you can connect to a task that brings you so many different levels of emotion. Joy, wonder, satisfaction, frustration? and it is nice to be able to create something to feel a little pride in. I get that sense from you and what you build. I would like some day to be at a level where I can offset the cost of enjoying the hobby by being able to move the finished product along to cover the costs of creating them. It is an expensive way to burn through solder that is for sure. I am not quite there yet, but as I continue to learn and perfect the craft I hope to be able to in the future. I can see how it benefits you and keeps you in a position where you can continue to do what you love and to be frank, I hope to be able to emulate that.

Ever been an inspiration before man? 'Cause I think you might be now, hope you're comfortable with that


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Mark Brown said:


> Alright, almost is a strong understatement. It is an addiction like none I have ever known. There is something magical when you can connect to a task that brings you so many different levels of emotion. Joy, wonder, satisfaction, frustration? and it is nice to be able to create something to feel a little pride in. I get that sense from you and what you build. I would like some day to be at a level where I can offset the cost of enjoying the hobby by being able to move the finished product along to cover the costs of creating them. It is an expensive way to burn through solder that is for sure. I am not quite there yet, but as I continue to learn and perfect the craft I hope to be able to in the future. I can see how it benefits you and keeps you in a position where you can continue to do what you love and to be frank, I hope to be able to emulate that.
> 
> Ever been an inspiration before man? 'Cause I think you might be now, hope you're comfortable with that



Well, for me, guitars and everything to do with them have become constant inspirations. It doesn't matter what I'm doing in that context, sitting behind a board mixing, building, noodling.

I simply feel better if there's a guitar in the room. I'm driven to complete projects and damn the torpedoes if it costs me more than it should.

You're too kind with your praise. I'm just one of the gang here.

This place helps keep me sane (relatively speaking).

But, as always, Thank you!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

But you get to keep doing what you love @Milkman and you managed to cover most and sometimes more than the hard cost of doing it. We both know the time is a write off, unless you consider making an average of $0.55 an hour a living wage 

The goal is to just be able to keep going. It is a bitter pill to swallow spending upwards of 3-500 dollars building a head knowing that you have no real use of it, nowhere to store it and lack an unlimited fund to continue building them. Much as you have a pile now, imagine living in a world where you were not able to move those guitars you fabricate. You would have a pile too big and a hole in your wallet they might almost fill. That is the inspiration my friend, you have managed to keep doing what you love without it killing you.


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## Mikev7305 (Jan 6, 2020)

Awwww you guys are just so cute!!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

😅









FIXED IT!

I'm rewiring it p2p and gonna see what happens. Wish me luck.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Good Luck!... & STAY SAFE!!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

greco said:


> Good Luck!... & STAY SAFE!!


Thanks buddy!!

I was growing increasingly frustrated at not being able to make any discernable difference in what was going on and I wasn't overly impressed with the placement of the board and the leads I could work with given that sooooooo this is plan B. The irony here is that it was plan A but I talked myself out of it due to the complexity compared to a board and my lack of understanding of the circuit. I can honestly say I have spent enough time with it now that I at least understand how it works so I can follow this rather well.

There is always something to come from failure, sometimes it is a greater understanding of the issues. Sometimes it is just more failure. Only time will tell


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Soooooo I can almost promise this will be a resounding failure. I did not place the sockets for what I have now attempted. I am gonna forge ahead none the less because that is the certain kind of special I am, but don't act surprised when I have nothing good to say after the fact.


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## Noodles (12 mo ago)

I never thought a thread could be both a cautionary statement and inspirational at the same time, but here it is.

Thanks for this. I'd love to do a project like this and have been appropriately warned of the pitfalls (and shocks).

Sharing your experience is appreciated. If I do take this specific project on this thread will be a good reference.

Kudos for the progress you've made and your tenacity.


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## Alan Small (Dec 30, 2019)

Point to point encourages three dimensional thinking...your use of space is no longer limited to a flat plane. Bernie is one of many builders who embraced this style of building and inspired many to follow the same path.

Spaghetti protective insulators become useful in new ways..thank you to the unknown inventor and to nextgen for carrying same.










Do enjoy the journey with all its trial and error


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Mark Brown said:


> 😅
> View attachment 456452
> 
> 
> ...


WTH!!!??

Why?

Sounded so good.

I’ll keep watching the thread. I’m curious how you’ll do it P2P.


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

As they say..... _if it ain't broke, fix it until it is._


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Milkman said:


> WTH!!!??
> 
> Why?
> 
> ...


It sounded good at about 10% of the usable motion in the pots. Outside of that one specific and varying position it would flubb and oscillate and squeal and all kinds of things. I was running out of patience in trying to diagnose that issue, which I still assume was a ground *SOMEWHERE *and nothing I did seemed to make even the slightest difference so I abandoned it for this idiotic idea!

Oh and you don't have to watch the thread to see how that is gonna turn out. Its gonna turn out bad. I'll tell ya right now 



Noodles said:


> I never thought a thread could be both a cautionary statement and inspirational at the same time, but here it is.
> 
> Thanks for this. I'd love to do a project like this and have been appropriately warned of the pitfalls (and shocks).
> 
> ...


It isn't the most helpful thread, it is basically a lunatic rambling.... but what I can tell you is to follow a well thought out plan of attack. I went full on "winging it" and paid a price. Also, the jury is still out on if it is ok or not to build an amp in a wooden box LOL

But none the less thank you. 

I am very comfortable sharing my failures. It is part of life and the process. If all anyone ever says is "Hey look at this amazing thing I did" and then neglect to remind us all of the 300 or so hours of complete and utter failure, those that come after us will feel even worse about their outcome when it isn't perfect the first time around. I'll take that mantle and run hard with it. If there is one thing I excel at it is failure!


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

it's never a failure if you learn something .


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I have confidence.

If I can build one and it works…. Seriously, I just copied the diagram. I really had no idea what did what or why.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Milkman said:


> I have confidence.
> 
> If I can build one and it works…. Seriously, I just copied the diagram. I really had no idea what did what or why.


I would be a whole lot further along than I am if I was smart enough to do that in the first place.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Mark Brown said:


> I would be a whole lot further along than I am if I was smart enough to do that in the first place.


Cup is half full?

You may well end up with a killer Tweed. P2P may be the ultimate if some of the booteek amp prices I have seen are any indication.

Keep your eyes on the prize.


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Got the day off work today. (Who is gonna buy a bicycle today?), so I spent a bit of quality time with my Amandacaster and my Trinity 5E3. I'm pretty sure the only thing I used today that _wasn't_ DIY was the pick!

I really like the 5E3, but I miss the reverb, and a slow, pulsing trem. I think I sold those pedals a while back.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Paul M said:


> I really like the 5E3, but I miss the reverb, and a slow, pulsing trem. I think I sold those pedals a while back.


Man if I didn't have my Tre-verb I would have thrown the Champ in the garbage by now 

I have decided to shelve this project for a couple of days. I went into it head strong, haven't been completely satisfied with a single result to date and frankly I think it is time to go nuclear on it and start again.

While it can be frustrating to abandon something, I feel like no matter what I do at this point nothing will truly bring me to a place of satisfaction.

I still plan on building it in a wooden box, I will still go P2P as now that I have tasted it I think I'm gonna like it and I still suspect when I am done it will be amazing.

I did always prepare myself for this possibility. I tried, I failed..... and I will go back and try again. Ground up as they say. Who knows what idiotic nonsense I can dream up this time around.

There are some positives however. It can be smaller, I can put the pots on top like I wanted to and who knows, it might even work!

.....plus if I make it again I can make those corner mitres better. I honestly think my displeasure with those was the downfall of this project. I haven't been happy with it since day one and the compounding and cascading failures have led to this decision.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul M said:


> Got the day off work today. (Who is gonna buy a bicycle today?), so I spent a bit of quality time with my Amandacaster and my Trinity 5E3. I'm pretty sure the only thing I used today that _wasn't_ DIY was the pick!
> 
> I really like the 5E3, but I miss the reverb, and a slow, pulsing trem. I think I sold those pedals a while back.


A cheap delay pedal will help. As I recall, that Trinity of yours was a bench reference for me while I built mine. 

You should stop by sometime over the holidays and try out a few of the guitars I've built. The Poplar Misconception might surprise you. Reminds me a lot of Sting.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Milkman said:


> The Poplar Misconception


Amazing~!


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Milkman said:


> A cheap delay pedal will help. As I recall, that Trinity of yours was a bench reference for me while I built mine.
> 
> You should stop by sometime over the holidays and try out a few of the guitars I've built. The Poplar Misconception might surprise you. Reminds me a lot of Sting.


I've got an old BOSS DM-3..... that's covered. 

The step-son started a project for me years ago..... the amp is/was going to be a Fender Tube reverb, into an 18W TMB, all installed in a Hammond PR40 tone cabinet. Other projects have taken priority, but one day........


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Paul M said:


> Got the day off work today. (Who is gonna buy a bicycle today?),


ME !!!! I would. HAHAHA..........seriously, I would.


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Verne said:


> ME !!!! I would. HAHAHA..........seriously, I would.


If you make the drive.... I'll open the store for you.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

So now I'm wondering how small I can stuff this thing into for a space. I have essentially relieved my concerns where things will catch fire, there simply isn't that much heat above the tubes that is retained in the structure. So the next gambit I suppose seeing ss we are officially on to round two is how small can a guy go?

I'm gonna torture myself with a layout over the next few days, get some slightly different components and roll them dice again.

Smaller amps=more amps!


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

Two words of caution as you contemplate downsizing layout(s) -- lead dress!!!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

DavidP said:


> Two words of caution as you contemplate downsizing layout(s) -- lead dress!!!


That's what got me into the mess I am in right now if I suspect correctly. I know you poses the question of how I would wire it and I said I was worried..... well, wiring it wasn't the issue I thought it would be but it did (I believe) crate havoc.

So then this afternoon I started a P2P and looking at the placement of the trannies and the power tubes and rectifier, there was no way to route everything without crossing signal with HT and then again with the AC so I scrapped that plan.

Were not talking micro amp here, but what I made was uuuuge and there is no need for that. With proper thought (something I usually lack) I think it can get proficiently small and still retain the necessary room to separate components and dress.

That being said, I could just up and fail again. We have seen it before.

Thank goodness I enjoy the struggle or I would be in trouble!


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Mark Brown said:


> it would flubb and oscillate and squeal


Read up on "parasitic oscillation". It will occur more than once in your electronic hobby building projects...knowing the culprit makes it easier to locate, to reduce or terminate.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Alright.... I lied. I built it back again.

I ripped all the turrets out and flipped them so the circuit was orientated correctly. The tone pot no longer causes oscillations so that's a good thing. The normal or bright.... haven't decided yet gives zero volume and works like an antenna. I have a sneaking suspension if I add a ground wire to that pot we might be in business but thats gonna be tomorrow's problem.

If we are looking for positives, the other channel works normally and frankly sounds fucking amazing. If I never touched it again I could live with what I have right now. That might just be the best idea

.....you know me better than that.










.....oh its still in that stupid wooden box, don't worry


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Color me crazy, I have two working channels and some humming potentiometers. We are getting all kinds of close!

I might not make dad of the year, but I will make this amp work!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Mark Brown said:


> Color me crazy, I have two working channels and some humming potentiometers. We are getting all kinds of close!
> 
> I might not make dad of the year, but I will make this amp work!



LOL, you did all that over Christmas....You Sir, are as crazy as I am.

Nice.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Milkman said:


> LOL, you did all that over Christmas....You Sir, are as crazy as I am.
> 
> Nice.


Christmas is a time to celebrate the things in life that matter most to you. In my particular case it is yelling at my kids while inhaling flux burnoff in the vain attempt to make things that don't matter at all work better than they did before. This time it works fantastic. 

So, I had a shitty connection on my V1a Grid stopper. I chopsticked it and found it. Take that amplifier, I do so know what I am doing!!

The pots still have some weird shit going on and I don't know if it is there proximity to the heater lines or the fact that none of the bodies are in contact with metal. I am gonna add a bus to the back of them and send them to the grounding bus and see what happens. If that fails, I have some left over copper and I will shield the heater lines with it.

That being said though, it works. Both channels work, work really well even. The tone control works, the pots work, the channel switch works, I works, you works. 

This one almost defeated me and while it is still imperfect it sure is a lot better than round one. I'll take the TKO on this and call it a win.

What a glorious sound the 5e3 has though. It is so much bolder than the champ and I look forward to dialing this one in and getting it all sorted but for now it sounds fantastic.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Sounds like you got a good match speaker too, which can make a difference.

Years ago, I took home a double Deluxe by I think it was 65Amps, to demo. It did sound great, but was a big loud amp, for at home. Back to the store it went, and I never did try a regular old 5E3.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

keto said:


> Sounds like you got a good match speaker too, which can make a difference.


To be fair, that is plugged into the Tube Amp Expander. My "test speaker" is actually a 35w Danelectro 4ohm, I know, I know, gotta match impedance. Except even fender 60 some years ago knew that was nonsense lol. It sounds like hot libations ripping through that little speaker. I think it's a 10" I'm gonna haul out the Traynor and see how it does in a matched cab. It should be loud as balls I thinks.

But it's ultimate home is on the shelf plugged into the TAE, which is what affords me the ability to build such stupidly artistic chassis as opposed to robust ones. 

It is working something sweet right now. It gets some feedback if I get too close to it with the guitar, which is to be expected seeing as there is nothing for shielding on it and I am literally on top of it with a 24" patch cable lol.

I could just never do a damn thing to it from here and I would be completely satisfied. In fact, I am completely satisfied at this very moment in time. I would like to replace the tone and bright caps as they are just dinky old ceramic once I might have pulled out of a box I got of some fellow.... but if I didn't it still works hella sweet!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

FAAAAAAAAAAAK YOOOOOOOOOOOOU 5E3

I think I fixed it! 

Turns out all this time it was some nightmare in the little selector switch I was trying to use to select the Normal and Bright channel. I don't know if the little switch couldn't handle the power, if I grounded it wrong, if god hates me and punishes me for not tithing, I don't care what it was it is better now!

So last night I was poking around in there and noticed that there was something going on in and around the switch, seemed like if I moved the wires something changed in the sound so... I kept moving things around. Stuff kept changing.... nothing fantastic, but stuff. 

Then this morning I went back to poking around. Still nothing positive. Then I got mad and got out the cutters. Bye Bye Birdie! 
Wired a second shunting jack in place of the switch and we are in full blown, both pots make a difference nothing crazy happens circuit works and the world is right again.

Thank goodness. I was starting to lose faith in this one ever working ideally


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## Alan Small (Dec 30, 2019)

Sherlock


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I was a little early on the hope. There is still something not quite right. It works through the cab magically, it is clean and quite. When I pump it through the TAE is gets all kinds of farty. Obviously there is something going on that I cannot hear through a cab. This is upsetting as I can't fix something I cannot hear unless it is plugged into my bloody computer because doing that means moving it off my bench. 

Oh well, I'll take another crack at it later lol.

Sorry to get our hope up.

Guess all things being equal, I could just pump it through the cab and be happy about it.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Mark Brown said:


> I was a little early on the hope. There is still something not quite right. It works through the cab magically, it is clean and quite. When I pump it through the TAE is gets all kinds of farty. Obviously there is something going on that I cannot hear through a cab. This is upsetting as I can't fix something I cannot hear unless it is plugged into my bloody computer because doing that means moving it off my bench.
> 
> Oh well, I'll take another crack at it later lol.
> 
> ...


Are you sure it isn't just that you have it cranked up in your tae, and the amp sounds farty because a 5e3 cranked is farty sounding? haha


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I wish man, that would be stellar. You can hear the oscillations or something, I am not positive what to call it. It is still a little wonky but for now I have put it to rest because I will lose my mind if I keep working on it. Someday soon I will come back to it. I can't hardly get it past 2 without it making all kinds of odd sounds in the TAE. Through the cab though, that is something.


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