# Big electric jazzbox on the cheap



## dobsont (Jan 7, 2008)

I'm thinking of grabbing up a washburn hb15 or an ibanez af105 or something similar - cheap, deep bodied, floating pickup -- then pulling the floater and tossing on a p-90 for an es-125/175/L5 vibe. Is there some reason this is a bad idea? Anybody done it?


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## Milothicus (May 22, 2007)

I have an HB15 i bought in the fall. i paid less than 300 canadian all-in from an ebay auction from the states. not bad for a full hollowbody.

here are my thoughts, in no particular order...

finish has some flaws, but nothing through the finish. even if this was a factory second because of them, i'm happy with what i paid. it really is a gorgeous guitar.

it plays nicely, i'm pretty sure it needs a new nut, but i may be willing to try replacing that myself. bridge is floating, and mine is quite well fitted to the top, though some may not be. they've actually glued some thin foam material to the bottom of the bridge to prevent scratches. i may remove it at some point...

I put on some TI jazz bebop strings, and the difference is huge. the strings they ship it with are terrible. far too thin

unfortunately i don't have enough experience with this sort of guitar to comment on the pickup. it works, and strumming location affects the tone much more than the other standard solidbody guitars that i'm used to. the pots however are not great. i think the volume pot is linear. it's only effective for about 1/4 of the range.

feedback can be an issue at high volumes, but this is expected from the hollowbody.

and the body is not as thick as most hollowbody jazz guitars. it's somewhere between that and a 335. big enough to know it's not a solidbody, but small enough to be comfortable, for me anyway.


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## dobsont (Jan 7, 2008)

Yeah, I played an hb15 with the florentine cutaway at my local bricks-and-mortar. Quite impressive really. I think it was $319+ tax.
That's kind of what's got me thinking.


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## dobsont (Jan 7, 2008)

*p-90 routing on an hb15*

Pull the floating pickup, screw a dogear p-90 to the guitar's top.

No opinions? Nobody wants to talk me out of it?


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## dobsont (Jan 7, 2008)

No, actually. As far as I know, there are no p-90 Artcores. There might be a Jay Turser, I think, but IIRC it doesn't have a transparent/natural coloured finish.

I'm not sure why it would be ugly -- I'd have to drill some holes so the pickup sits like it should and the wires run inside. The ugliest part, I guess, would be the leftover screw holes and bevel where the floating p/u attached to the neck. On a $200 guitar I could live with that.

I'd mount it properly...










I guess maybe this is partly a question about how p90s mount - I'm assuming they have a good sized rectangular hole underneath them and that they screw into the surface of the guitar top. Am I missing something?

Its also partly a question about archtop construction, bracing, etc -- I'm wondering If I'll be running into structural elements by routing out the top, etc. 

Mostly I'm just bouncing ideas around and seeing if someone has done something similar.

here's the washburn, for reference


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## dobsont (Jan 7, 2008)

Well, I picked up the HB-15c today. Alright, so it's not "deep bodied", exactly -- something like 3". Should be fine for this project. Out the door for well under $300 CAD. Fun little guitar. Now for the p-90...


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## GUInessTARS (Dec 28, 2007)

*just a thought*

with a jigsaw and some jbweld/ductape anything's possible!


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## dobsont (Jan 7, 2008)

*I should be able to surface mount!*

Surface mount p90s exist! Less chopping = less sweating!

Fralin has them. I'm sure others do too.
Check it out: two surface mounted p90s on a kay archtop (note the bigsby too). 
I ain't crazy.









Edit: I think the thing to note here is that the p90s are mounted on pads or spacers. This may or may not mean that there is no routed cavity under the pickup.


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## dobsont (Jan 7, 2008)

*here's another good idea*

Similar idea. DeArmond on a Harmony. Not surface mount, but looks like fun!


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## dobsont (Jan 7, 2008)

Holy crap - ugly, but damn! DeArmond and a p90 on an old silvertone.
I'd probably have swapped positions, but maybe a dearmond doesn't have enough spank to balance a p90 at the neck.


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## dobsont (Jan 7, 2008)

*p90 spacers*

I think allparts and stewmac carry these. I believe they are traditionally used to raise the bridge pickup. These are 1/4" thick (They also come in 1/8" and 3/16th). 

The only picture I found was this one, from an epay auction. [But note also the use of similar spacers on both pickups on the Fralin Kay, above.]










I'm told there's about 6mm sticking out below the mount tabs/plastic cover on a dogear - this is the part that drops into the routed cavity. Given that 6mm, a 1/4" spacer should allow me to mount the pickup with no rout. The caveat being that the guitar must be able to accommodate the full 16mm height of an unrouted p90 without hitting/pulling the strings. There seems to be quite a lot of space at the neck on my hb15c -- In the 20mm range.

In the end, I'll either cut the guitar top or not, depending on the height I need. Obviously its easier if I don't have to.


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## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

I'd say do it.

Then let ua know how it sounds.


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## valriver40 (Oct 22, 2007)

great idea! i would remove the factory pup and install a humbucker, as some p90 give out 60 cycle hum. ( symour duncan jazz)i am contemplayting doing the same.bad spelling.


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## dobsont (Jan 7, 2008)

Funny you should bring this back to the top. I just got my pickup from J S Moore yesterday -- looks great. 

I've got to find/make/buy the spacer. Now that I have the parts in hand it's clear that I've got plenty of room to mount the p90 above the guitar's surface -- I pretty much have to just to get it in range of the strings. 

The niggly bit is that the pole piece screws stick out the bottom of the pickup an additional 1/4" or so. So I've got the dogear cover, then about a 1/4 of bobbin/mount plate sticking below that, then the 1/4" of pole screws sticking out the bottom further still. It'll be them that get in the way. Haven't decided just what I'll do yet.

I'm definitely going p90, hum be damned.

I'll keep you posted!


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## dobsont (Jan 7, 2008)

I disassembled the HB15 in prep for the p90 and discovered a big finish crack hiding under the pickguard. This project is on hold while I wait for the replacement. : (


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

i missed this thread. had you thought of replacing the minihum with either a quality mini-hum (which i'd think would give a great sound), or asking someone to just wind you a p-90 into that footprint... not that i think you shouldn't try it (this is how we all learn, right?). just seems like a much easier job that way, lol.


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## dobsont (Jan 7, 2008)

suttree said:


> i missed this thread. had you thought of replacing the minihum with either a quality mini-hum (which i'd think would give a great sound), or asking someone to just wind you a p-90 into that footprint... not that i think you shouldn't try it (this is how we all learn, right?). just seems like a much easier job that way, lol.


Of course you are absolutely right - a decent floater would be the right way to go. In retrospect, I should have called this thread "my attempt to approximate an ES-175-circa-1957-or-so out of a Washburn hb15". That's really the goal here.

The neck is set higher off the body than on a real ES-175, which means I need at least a 1/4" riser under the p-90 - maybe more. That may be what Paul meant when he said "ugly" and I questioned him on it earlier in the thread.

Basically, I'm not getting a refund, I'm getting a replacement HB15. I actually like the thing and I'm sad to see it headed for the incinerator (or who knows what fate) over a finish crack. Wish I could have kept it as a $100-out-the-door-never-to-return blem - which would have been perfect for this project. As it is, the music store has it and they're going to bat for me, so we'll see what happens.

I'll have a look at that Agile just for kicks but, like I say, the money's already in the Washburn.


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