# Would this affect your purchasing decision? Cosmetic damage from repair.



## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

I am not selling a guitar.
I am clearing out some gear and the D18 came under consideration briefly.
I am the original owner of this 1976 Martin. In 2000 it had a neck reset done at a Toronto Martin authorized shop. The D18 sounds fantastic still but unfortunately the heel was cracked and there are scratches adjacent the fretboard and around the base of the heel. The reglued crack is visible and dark glue oozed out from the _12th fret_. The fretboard was tinted darker in an effort to hide the glue marks. The neck has remained stable and stays in tune even when unplayed for several months. The shop did "their best" to do touch ups afterwards.
Now the big question if you were to consider this purchase------
You like the tone of the guitar, the body shows some signs of use(a few dings and scratches), some weather checking, frets are good > but you notice the obvious signs of a cosmetically, poorly done, repair job.
-(a) would these signs of a repair lower the amount you would be willing to pay
-(b) you would pay the current value and you accept the fact that repairs and their collateral damage can happen
-(c) would politely walk away

My issue is that (1) I would not buy a guitar with those kinds of flaws no matter how great it sounds and (2) would I be able to sell it for decent money once I do decide to part with it.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

ed2000 said:


> -(a) would these signs of a repair lower the amount you would be willing to pay?


Yes they would. 

However, hopefully my (lowered) offer would be "fair" (given current market value at that time) and (again, hopefully) would not immediately be viewed by the seller as an unreasonable amount. Understandably, there would very likely be a lot of discussion and negotiating.

Cheers

Dave


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## allanr (Jan 11, 2012)

Of course it would affect my perception and reduce the value. But it would definitely not make the guitar unsellable. It would just sell for less than a pristine example of the same guitar.


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

yes I would expect to pay less, as I know that if I ever sell it, I will also receive less.
the person who broke that guitar takes the hit, not one of the sellers down the road.

on the other hand, it might be a great opportunity to get a deal on a guitar that i would not otherwise afford.
kind of like buying a bigger house on a busy street.... you pay less because of the location, and you'll sell it for less, but in the mean time you would be living in a house that may otherwise be outside your means.


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## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

puckhead said:


> the person who broke that guitar takes the hit, not one of the sellers down the road.
> .


Unfortunately for me, this well known shop messed up the repair and devalued it. I'm better off keeping it.

Here's a big thanks to the 12th Phret for ensuring that I will never get rid of this D18 ... Yeah lifetime warranty, yeah 12th Phret.

Yeah to Martin for essentially telling me, "Sometimes things break when you're working with wood"


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

If you're unhappy with the repair shop, you should take it up with them. If it's as bad as you say it is, I'd be very surprised if they didn't offer some sort of compensation. A store credit or a discount or something.


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## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

Greg Ellis said:


> If you're unhappy with the repair shop, you should take it up with them. If it's as bad as you say it is, I'd be very surprised if they didn't offer some sort of compensation. A store credit or a discount or something.


I did go back twice but was told it became a difficult repair due to the glue Martin used in the construction. The second visit was to tint the fretboard darker to hide black stains and to polish around the heel area. The repaired crack is quite visible although the clear finish makes it smooth.

Martin told me that sometimes the repairs cause cosmetic damage "After all, they are working with wood" is what I was told. The construction and strength is not affected.

ps. the Grover tuners are not covered under the warranty and one can't be replaced because they are unavailable individually.


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2013)

I have no problem buying a cosmetically flawed guitar. I own 
quite a few. I pay accordingly. It's the quality of the sound 
and feel that matters to me. How much you want for it? 
I may have a few 'pretty' ones for trade consideration.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

I'm in the camp that would buy a guitar with cosmetic (but not structural issues). A great sounding guitar is a great sounding guitar. BUT... if there were two equally good sounding guitars side by side and one had cosmetic issues, I would expect to pay slightly less for it than the one that was cosmetically perfect. If the repaired guitar sounded better, that's the one I would take.

Some repairs can be done so they are invisible and some can't... that's just the way it is. Especially on guitars with clear finishes. And umtimately, what would you rather have- a broken guitar or a great sounding guitar with visible repairs?


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## stringer (Jun 17, 2009)

I would still be interested in it, but I would expect a discount. I bought my kingpin 2 as a factory second. The blemish was so small I didn't find it till several months later, and I saved 400 bucks!


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Blemishes, restorations and evidence of repairs are different things having differing outcomes on my purchase decisions. What you are describing would be an "a)" in my book, followed by "c)" if the price was deemed to be a risk.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

ed2000 said:


> but you notice the obvious signs of a cosmetically, poorly done, repair job.
> -(a) would these signs of a repair lower the amount you would be willing to pay
> -(b) you would pay the current value and you accept the fact that repairs and their collateral damage can happen
> -(c) would politely walk away


I would only pay a price that I figured it would sell fairly easily for...in other words, THAT would be the real market value.
So:
-a) I am sure that price would be quite low relative to what new ones or good condition used ones sell for
-b) I am sure that the seller's "current market value" would be vastly different from mine
-c) due to a & b, I am almost certain that I would be walking away


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

The OP's c) walk away. I won't buy someone else's crappy repair. If there has been structural repair it's a no go. scratches, small dings etc. they just add character, a properly refinished older instrument would also be acceptable at the right price.


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## Mavryk (Dec 29, 2013)

You can take my words for what they're worth, considering I have almost zero guitar experience, but imho, cosmetic blemishes are what gives a guitar character. It shows the potential buyer that this guitar has been played, and played enough to warrant the kind of repairs it received. Anyone who's played enough to buy a guitar like this has an ear for music and can tell how well it plays. I think a used guitar should be sold (or, rather, priced) based on how well it sounds and feels, not by looks. To me it seems very hard to have a used guitar for an "X" number of years and NOT have blemishes on it. After all, you're not selling a new guitar, yours has been played for years....I assume.

Mav


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Mavryk said:


> You can take my words for what they're worth, considering I have almost zero guitar experience, but imho, cosmetic blemishes are what gives a guitar character. It shows the potential buyer that this guitar has been played, and played enough to warrant the kind of repairs it received. Anyone who's played enough to buy a guitar like this has an ear for music and can tell how well it plays. I think a used guitar should be sold (or, rather, priced) based on how well it sounds and feels, not by looks. To me it seems very hard to have a used guitar for an "X" number of years and NOT have blemishes on it. After all, you're not selling a new guitar, yours has been played for years....I assume.
> 
> Mav


Some would disagree. My Strat shows minor fret wear but not one single scratch, dent or ding anywhere. My LP will not get any new ones other than what was on it when I bought it...I take great care of my things. (saying that, I'm a home player...so no gigs) So what I'm saying is that it is possible to keep an instrument mint AND enjoy it...it need not show its age to mean it hasn't been played much


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## Mavryk (Dec 29, 2013)

Scotty said:


> Some would disagree. My Strat shows minor fret wear but not one single scratch, dent or ding anywhere. My LP will not get any new ones other than what was on it when I bought it...I take great care of my things. (saying that, I'm a home player...so no gigs) So what I'm saying is that it is possible to keep an instrument mint AND enjoy it...it need not show its age to mean it hasn't been played much


Very true. I assumed Ed was playing in gigs. My thinking was after almost 30 years of traveling from gig to gig his guitar was bound to need some repair.


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## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

Mavryk said:


> Very true. I assumed Ed was playing in gigs. My thinking was after almost 30 years of traveling from gig to gig his guitar was bound to need some repair.


....Home use only, sometimes in the case for months at a time...only a little fret wear in the cowboy chord positions.
The only major repair after 25 years was a neck reset(done badly) under the Martin lifetime warranty.


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## Mike MacLeod (Nov 27, 2006)

Latest Vintage Guitar price guide gives a market value of $1400 - $1800 a 76 D-18 in top condition. I would say you can take between $300 - $500 off for an un-cosmetic repair. There is no reason that a neck reset should result in any cosmetic damage. I've had neck resets performed on many guitars. Properly done they should be invisible.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I'd expect it to lower the price, but I could still be interested in checking it out, if that's the guitar I was looking for.

I have a S&P 12 string with a crack in the top.
It doesn't seem to have affected the sound, and the crack has not changed in years--but yeah--if I went to sell it I know it would reduce the price quite a bit.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

greco said:


> Yes they would.
> 
> However, hopefully my (lowered) offer would be "fair" (given current market value at that time) and (again, hopefully) would not immediately be viewed by the seller as an unreasonable amount. Understandably, there would very likely be a lot of discussion and negotiating.
> 
> ...


I have to go with Dave on this one.


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## notjoeaverage (Oct 6, 2008)

I would walk away as a perspective buyer. Like Mike said a neck reset the was done properly is basically invisible.

If it resulted in damage and cosmetically looks like a hack job, you can't have any faith in the repair work that was done. Who's to say that in six months of playing daily the heel crack doesn't turn into a split and or other structural damage shows up and makes for a big repair bill or kindling.

Personally I would have told the store that did the repair that they have just bought themselves another used Martin. No charge for the repair and as compensation cash in the amount of what a properly repaired one would be worth. Plus a replacement at cost plus %5 and I will remain a loyal customer. Otherwise I'll be picketing outside during my free time until the suit is heard in court.


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