# Fake Fender - Read and Learn



## lookitsmarc (Aug 16, 2008)

*** ADMIN EDIT ** I contacted the original poster and asked if I could change the title of this thread so that all members can learn from this episode. Thanks to the OP for sharing this with us and allowing us to learn from it.* GC

Alright, so I have what I presume is a fake fender strat. I say this primarily because of the serial number (see pictures). Can anyone see any other tell-tale signs?


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## lookitsmarc (Aug 16, 2008)




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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

The tuners don't look right to me. No Fender stamp and I've never seen the white O-rings before. Does the neck-plate have any markings?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Looks like a fat strat to me. Whats that body thickness? HSS configuration fits with the fat strat.


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## lookitsmarc (Aug 16, 2008)

Just to clarify - I'm looking for things that should not belong / that are missing from a strat genuinely made by Fender. There is no white 'o-ring' - sorry that is a trick of the lighting. The neck plate is blank.


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

lookitsmarc said:


> Just to clarify - I'm looking for things that should not belong / that are missing from a strat genuinely made by Fender. There is no white 'o-ring' - sorry that is a trick of the lighting. The neck plate is blank.


 Are you sure those aren't white plastic O-rings between the top of the tuner peg and the shaft? At the very top of this pic..


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## lookitsmarc (Aug 16, 2008)

Big_Daddy said:


> Are you sure those aren't white plastic O-rings between the top of the tuner peg and the shaft? At the very top of this pic..


Oh, I see what you are talking about. Yes, those are there. I thought you were talking about something else.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Fender has put out so many strats in so many combinations that it is crazy trying to figure them out sometimes. There is always something questionable about a rubbed off serial number though. They are not put in a wear area so if they get rubbed off it's usually intentional. Another problem is that there are so many fakes out there today with Gibson and Fender that you really have to know the guitars history. Some of these fakes are actually better than the real thing, most are not.

To me, it looks like a Fat Strat. Nothing on the faceplate is not a sure indication of anything either. The tuners, for the most part either vintage style or modern would normally have the Fender logo on them, or in some cases where they used Schaller etc. There would be that logo on them. Blank logo usually means cheap asian junk.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Big_Daddy said:


> The tuners don't look right to me. No Fender stamp and I've never seen the white O-rings before. Does the neck-plate have any markings?


Those tuners are legit as far as I remember. My GF has a Mexican Fat Strat and it has the exact same tuners, with the white O-rings, though it's not in front of me to check.

As for the rest of it, it looks pretty good. It's possible the rubbing off of the serial and logo is natural.

Although, I have to admit, when I first looked at it, something about the logo rubbed me the wrong way, but Mexi Fender logos are all ugly as far as I'm concerned, so it might just be that.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

hollowbody said:


> Those tuners are legit as far as I remember. My GF has a Mexican Fat Strat and it has the exact same tuners, with the white O-rings, though it's not in front of me to check.
> 
> As for the rest of it, it looks pretty good. It's possible the rubbing off of the serial and logo is natural.
> 
> Although, I have to admit, when I first looked at it, something about the logo rubbed me the wrong way, but Mexi Fender logos are all ugly as far as I'm concerned, so it might just be that.


You could very well be right. I have no idea what they are using on them now. But very possible. I know the Fat Strats did not come with vintage tuners for sure. Thats what it looks like to me.

here is a pic of a MIM fat Strat with the same tuners EXCEPT with the Fender logo.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> You could very well be right. I have no idea what they are using on them now. But very possible. I know the Fat Strats did not come with vintage tuners for sure. Thats what it looks like to me.


Yeah, I'll check when I get home and post a pic for comparison's sake.


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## lookitsmarc (Aug 16, 2008)

How about the serial number? Although it is rubbed, it doesn't look like it starts with MZ.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Also note that serial numbers using TZ are a common fake. Although that one is not totally legible, it could be a TZ. There is no such thing in Fender serial numbering.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Also note that serial numbers using TZ are a common fake. Although that one is not totally legible, it could be a TZ. There is no such thing in Fender serial numbering.


Yeah, I checked that on guitar dater project as well.

Also, it looks like while my GF's guitar does have white O-rings, they are stamped Fender.


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## WEEZY (May 23, 2008)

I'd say fake.

The serial looks like it starts with TZ fairly difinitively.

The headstock looks slightly 'off' in shape.

The logo is too high on the headstock.

The tuners.

Have you taken it apart?


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

lookitsmarc said:


>



I agree with WEEZY. The logo is placed in such a way as to be obscured by the string tree. If it were me and I liked it and it played well, I probably wouldn't care. Of course if this was sold to you as a genuine Fender, I could understand being pissed off. Does it play well?


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## lookitsmarc (Aug 16, 2008)

You know it doesn't play half bad. If I ever wanted to get rid of it, am I allowed to sell it? Of course I would disclose it as not a real Fender when I am selling it, but still I would be selling a (probably) illegal copy. And what would I charge for it? I would say it plays as good (probably better) than any guitar someone would get as their first electric guitar (certainly is better than my first guitar).


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

lookitsmarc said:


> You know it doesn't play half bad. If I ever wanted to get rid of it, am I allowed to sell it? Of course I would disclose it as not a real Fender when I am selling it, but still I would be selling a (probably) illegal copy. And what would I charge for it? I would say it plays as good (probably better) than any guitar someone would get as their first electric guitar (certainly is better than my first guitar).


Like I said, some of the fakes are better than the originals, most are not. In terms of selling it you can sure sell it, as long as you 100% tell the person interested exactly what it is. Now, where you sell it is another question. I am not sure I want fakes on my site for several reasons. One, we are a pretty tight commnunity and nobody really deals in these type things. Secondly, there could be legal implications not only for you but for me as the site owner.

I appreciate you putting this up though. it's a good tool for everyone to help spot and maybe stop some of these fakes. it takes guts to be able to post up here that you indeed got a fake, hope you did not pay too much for it. But, if its a player at least you can use the thing.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Where did you buy it? Locally in Ottawa? 

I'm assuming that you didn't know it was a fake when you bought it.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Like I said, some of the fakes are better than the originals, most are not. In terms of selling it you can sure sell it, as long as you 100% tell the person interested exactly what it is. Now, where you sell it is another question. I am not sure I want fakes on my site for several reasons. One, we are a pretty tight commnunity and nobody really deals in these type things. Secondly, there could be legal implications not only for you but for me as the site owner.
> 
> I appreciate you putting this up though. it's a good tool for everyone to help spot and maybe stop some of these fakes. it takes guts to be able to post up here that you indeed got a fake, hope you did not pay too much for it. But, if its a player at least you can use the thing.


I don't mean to start something here, but how is selling a fake Strat different than someone selling their Guitar Clinic burst on here? Just because the Clinics (and similar replicas) are of a much higher standard in quality doesn't make them any more legit. In fact, that was the reason they had to stop production.


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## lookitsmarc (Aug 16, 2008)

bagpipe said:


> Where did you buy it? Locally in Ottawa?
> 
> I'm assuming that you didn't know it was a fake when you bought it.



Both correct.

Oh, and I won't try to sell it on this site. In fact, I might just end up giving it to a young cousin who is interested in learning how to play.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

hollowbody said:


> I don't mean to start something here, but how is selling a fake Strat different than someone selling their Guitar Clinic burst on here? Just because the Clinics (and similar replicas) are of a much higher standard in quality doesn't make them any more legit. In fact, that was the reason they had to stop production.


A point, but not so sure how strong of a point it is. Guitar Clinic guitars are well known amongst players. Most people are proud to say its a guitar clinic guitar and it usually supports a higher price tag in some cases. This guitar here is clearly not in that category. Also, what would you tell someone about this guitar? There are a lot of Ghost builders out there but for the most part the quality is on par if not better than the originals. Chinese knock-offs do not go into that category at all.

It's a fine line to be sure. We (or I) cannot control everything that is going to get posted here. And legally, if Fender comes after me are you going to pitch in with the legal fees?


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> A point, but not so sure how strong of a point it is. Guitar Clinic guitars are well known amongst players. Most people are proud to say its a guitar clinic guitar and it usually supports a higher price tag in some cases. This guitar here is clearly not in that category. Also, what would you tell someone about this guitar? There are a lot of Ghost builders out there but for the most part the quality is on par if not better than the originals. Chinese knock-offs do not go into that category at all.
> 
> It's a fine line to be sure. We (or I) cannot control everything that is going to get posted here. And legally, if Fender comes after me are you going to pitch in with the legal fees?


Haha, no. 

I understand where you're going, and it's not like I have any concern about what type of thing gets sold here, I was honestly just plain curious.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

hollowbody said:


> Haha, no.
> 
> I understand where you're going, and it's not like I have any concern about what type of thing gets sold here, I was honestly just plain curious.


I think the main lesson here is "buyer beware". I know the OP has learned a lot from this experience and hopefully we all take something from it as well. As long as there is money, there will be people that will try to get it dis-honestly.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

*Fake*

To me, the headstock looks like it was sanded down.You can see sand paper marks on the headstock or is that the lighting and photo?


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

I can pretty much guarantee you that's a Squier Fat Strat (from the beginner pack with the amp) that someone has put a different logo on.



gtrguy


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

gtrguy said:


> I can pretty much guarantee you that's a Squier Fat Strat (from the beginner pack with the amp) that someone has put a different logo on.
> 
> 
> 
> gtrguy


It is also possible that the body is legit and someone switched out the neck. Because for sure, that serial number is bogus.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

The first thing I noticed was the arm bevel, but it could be the lighting/photography. It doesn't look like the same curves and angle as either of my Strats. 

I bet it's a partscaster of some sort.

A shot of the neck pocket would be nice.

Peace, Mooh.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

lookitsmarc said:


> Both correct.
> 
> Oh, and I won't try to sell it on this site. In fact, I might just end up giving it to a young cousin who is interested in learning how to play.


ok...i got to ask. you bought it localy..then why on earth are'nt you returning it?..and get your money back. unless you paid 100$...ok, i get it. they go for about 179$US New, the fake one that is.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Two things look wrong to me right off the bat.

The angle of the strings between the nut and the tuners looks pretty severe. Generally it's a pretty straight path with a real Fender (and even a decent fake).

The arm relief (cutaway) looks different than any Strat I've owned.


I'm no expert, but it looks fake to me.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

There's several things that stand out that tell me this is not a legit Fender:

1. The headstock logo: Where do I begin? It's crooked - the "Stratocaster" makes an upward bend. It's also too high. Next, the patent numbers should not be there. These do not appear on any modern Fender headstock (except maybe some of the reissues but this guitar is clearly NOT a reissue).
2. Missing the "Made in..." label. 
3. The serial number. Not only is it half missing, but the first letter is a "T" - no Fender has ever had a serial number starting with a "T".
4. The headstock shape. It is wrong - it just looks sloppy. The curves aren't right and it has definitely been manually sanded to this shape. The round part at the tip is too big in relation to the rest of the key shape.
5. The tuners - missing a "Fender" or "F" logo. 
6. The string trees. As far as I know, the only Fenders to carry two string trees are the models with the large 70's style headstock.
7. The angle of the strings from the nut to the tuning heads - the tuners are too far down from the top of the headstock. I've never seen a genuine Fender look this way.
8. The body contours. The arm contour is very angular and abrupt. Usually it does not show up so glaringly in photos. It appears to be very straight - and a Fender wearing the "original contour body" sticker on the headstock does not look like this.


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## thecornman (May 13, 2007)

marcos said:


> To me, the headstock looks like it was sanded down.You can see sand paper marks on the headstock or is that the lighting and photo?


This was the first thing I noticed looking at the pics too.


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## davesvintage (Mar 31, 2009)

*That's the wrong logo*

The guitar might be a squier from Indo or such. From the pic it looks like Mexican bridge saddles its hard to tell. The logo is a Fender transition logo that is obviously been placed there. This logo would be at home on a late 64 or 65 strat and even fender wouldn't put on on that crooked. The tuners look Indo or Chinese to me. The pickguard looks like a '62 reissue screw pattern. It is hard to tell from the pics but I can tell you that the logo has been definately replaced.

Dave,
Dave's Vintage Guitars
www.davesvintageguitarsvancouver.com


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## davesvintage (Mar 31, 2009)

*Powdered Toast man is right*

That neck definately has been reshaped at the headstock. I would say it is an Indo or Chinese squier that has been reshaped and a Fender transition logo has been slapped on it. Those Indo and Chinese squiers have large 70s style headstocks and 2 string trees just like your guitar.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

davesvintage said:


> That neck definately has been reshaped at the headstock. I would say it is an Indo or Chinese squier that has been reshaped and a Fender transition logo has been slapped on it. Those Indo and Chinese squiers have large 70s style headstocks and 2 string trees just like your guitar.


I have an indo squier - and I concur - 2 string trees...although I didn't know indo squiers were available in a HSS config....the serial # appears on the back of the headstock - starting with SN.....no markings on the tuners.....the neckplate shows a squier logo .......my squier alignment of the string from the nut groove to the tuner is dead straight for each string....I guess the guitar must be a mish mash of a bunch of things.

I also have a mexi fat strat....HSS......serial #'s on the front below the Fender logo starting with MZ.....and the fender logo is nowhere near the single string tree...and lined up perfectly with the angle of the headstock edge.....no markings on the back of the headstock except for the 60th anniversary pendant..and the tuners have the fender F on them.....the neckplate has no markings...also noted is the fairly straight alignment of the nut groove to teh tuner...no sharp angle... dead straight.


I have a question though.....I get poor craftsmanship on the shaping of the headstock and the positioning of the drilling for the tuner pilot holes....but....if I were to go through the trouble of putting a fake logo and serial number on a guitar..I mean - ya gotta go through the trouble of getting the stamp or decal made up.....which I would assume would take a fair amount of effort...why would I not use a legit serial # format?..


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