# Ford Mustang going SUV .. electric



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Ford Mach-E Electric SUV


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Cool...for everything except the Mustang aesthetics. That’s sacrilege. Seriously. WTFFFF?


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

JBFairthorne said:


> That’s sacrilege


That's how I think many fans will see it too.
They can't think of another name for this model?
or an original face/tail design?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Excuse me a minute


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

At least it doesn't look like a Mustang.








and with a 300 mile range when equipped with an extended battery and rear wheel drive it's not going too far.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Porsche did it, mercedez did it, bmw did it...


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Fugly.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

It looks Edge ish. 

Am I the only one not hating it?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

This is not the first time they lost their way with the mustang.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

player99 said:


> This is not the first time they lost their way with the mustang.


Those are gorgeous compared to the Mustang II that first came out in '74.
Changing up the Mustang in questionable directions is a time honoured tradition. 


















As far as that SUV goes, they could have done a lot worse.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> Porsche did it, mercedez did it, bmw did it...


And like all electric cars you are limited as the where and when you go. Personally I would not like to go from say here into BC at night and especially in the winter. On any route. Not a lot of places to charge up. Summer would be just as bad.


jb welder said:


> As far as that SUV goes, they could have done a lot worse.


Yup, a lot worse.











Budda said:


> It looks Edge ish.
> 
> Am I the only one not hating it?


It's a cookie cutter car.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

jb welder said:


> Those are gorgeous compared to the Mustang II that first came out in '74.
> Changing up the Mustang in questionable directions is a time honoured tradition.
> 
> 
> ...



True that , it's was my first cat 74 hatchback with a 5.0 l and a 5 speed.

Became a man in that hatch back!


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

laristotle said:


> Ford Mach-E Electric SUV
> 
> View attachment 280078
> 
> View attachment 280080


Yes mon tabernacle sac religious , that is a edge!


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Budda said:


> Am I the only one not hating it?


Nope. I bet it will sell


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> And like all electric cars you are limited as the where and when you go. Personally I would not like to go from say here into BC at night and especially in the winter. On any route. Not a lot of places to charge up. Summer would be just as bad.


This seems to be your only argument, constantly. The thing is, electric cars are growing in demand and will continue to improve. There will be charging stations on every corner soon. Get with the times.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

B.C. zooms past rest of Canada in sales of zero emission vehicles | CBC News


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Hmm, Peeps are mostly buying vans and SUVs these days so smart move on Ford's part. I can see myself owning one. Maybe.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I would not buy a Ford again. Junk. Coming soon, electric junk.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> And like all electric cars you are limited as the where and when you go. Personally I would not like to go from say here into BC at night and especially in the winter. On any route. Not a lot of places to charge up. Summer would be just as bad.
> It's a cookie cutter car.


I was talking about styling, not the EV factor.

I'm all for electric cars, gas will run out.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> I was talking about styling, not the EV factor.
> 
> I'm all for electric cars, gas will run out.


Can't have one without the other. Looking good doesn't help when you're sitting by the side of the road waiting for a recharge.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Looks like me FX50 if you remove the mustang bits


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

It's fairly ugly to some and it's basically a short haul vehicle, but it's a Morris man. Personally I'd sooner have the original J model but what the hell. $100,000+ might seem a bit excessive to some but then again, what the hell. At least you could carry a gas generator in the back and recoup your money fast doing recharges on stuck electric cars and motorcycles. A couple of solar panels on the roof would help too. 
Morris Commercial Introduces Sentimental Electric Morris JE Van
Probably by the time these hit the streets they will have improved on the mileage.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 280132


The 120 on the van is how many $ it will cost you to get recharged.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Budda said:


> It looks Edge ish.
> 
> Am I the only one not hating it?


I dig it as well, don’t mind the old fuckers they’re just resistant to change!


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Driven electric for over 5 years now. Still waiting to be stuck at the side of a road. That only happened once in my life, in a gas car.........


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I get very angry when age-old iconic vehicle names are exploited to sell vehicles that don't deserve to wear them. This will be worse than when the Probe nearly wore the Mustang badge.

Impala, Malibu, Dart, Charger, Cutlass, CRX Del Sol, Big Red, Blazer, etc. The new Blazer has me furious.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

cboutilier said:


> I get very angry when age-old iconic vehicle names are exploited to sell vehicles that don't deserve to wear them. This will be worse than when the Probe nearly wore the Mustang badge.
> 
> Impala, Malibu, Dart, Charger, Cutlass, CRX Del Sol, Big Red, Blazer, etc. The new Blazer has me furious.


get over it. let the old bitch about stupid stuff like that


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

1SweetRide said:


> Hmm, Peeps are mostly buying vans and SUVs these days so smart move on Ford's part. I can see myself owning one. Maybe.


vans are out, I believe ford stopped production of those, others may be following


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

vadsy said:


> vans are out, I believe ford stopped production of those, others may be following


Not in Ottawa. Every second or third vehicle is a van. It’s a city of soccer moms.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

player99 said:


> I would not buy a Ford again. Junk. Coming soon, electric junk.


Funny, it’s been the best vehicle I’ve owned (Escape Ti). Before that I had a Subaru, a BMW, Mercedes and a couple of Hondas. The only brand I had horrible experiences with was FCA. Jeeps and Dodges are something I’ll never own again.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

As others have ably pointed out, Ford has done some questionable things to the poor old Mustang.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Chitmo said:


> I dig it as well, don’t mind the old fuckers they’re just resistant to change!


Who's got most of the money......us old fuckers. True a lot of it goes on younger things but what the hell.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Just so we're all on the same page here, it's not called a Mustang., right? You guys see that it's called The Mach which was inspired by the Mustang?

This is the equivalent of getting mad at the Cayenne by Porsche. Which is fine, but a little strange.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Adcandour said:


> Just so we're all on the same page here, it's not called a Mustang., right? You guys see that it's called The Mach which was inspired by the Mustang?
> 
> This is the equivalent of getting mad at the Cayenne by Porsche. Which is fine, but a little strange.


Hehheh, I’m not mad, I’m intrigued. I’d consider this in a few years when my current vehicle needs to be replaced.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

looks outdated already. Considering this is what most SUV EV concepts look like lately


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

jb welder said:


> Those are gorgeous compared to the Mustang II that first came out in '74.
> Changing up the Mustang in questionable directions is a time honoured tradition.
> 
> 
> ...


Even my Maverick looked better. LOL


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Just in case anyone actually wanted to know anything about it instead of reading a bunch of old fuckers yelling at the clouds.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Interesting video. I like what I'm seeing so far. Wonder when these will hit the showrooms?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

1SweetRide said:


> Not in Ottawa. Every second or third vehicle is a van. It’s a city of soccer moms.


granted Alberta is the land of trucks, if manufacturers stop making vans because soccer mom prefer SUV's. funny how this new vehicle happens to fit that category


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

vadsy said:


> granted Alberta is the land of trucks, if manufacturers stop making vans because soccer mom prefer SUV's. funny how this new vehicle happens to fit that category


They ain’t stupid.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

player99 said:


> I would not buy a Ford again. Junk. Coming soon, electric junk.


that hasn’t been my experience with them. I have a 2010 F150 XLT V8 and all it has cost me is oil, one battery, one set of tires, brakes and the MAF needed to be cleaned. This one should go another 5 years easy and my previous F150 went for 18 years.

Their cars may be no good but the trucks do well and there’s no way I’m driving a car anyway so works for me.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

1SweetRide said:


> They ain’t stupid.


that’s right, because no one is buying vans


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Probably not a bad idea. Street racing is a big no no now . So the muscle car is on its way out.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Distortion said:


> Probably not a bad idea. Street racing is a big no no now . So the muscle car is on its way out.


Street racing is a huge thing and most electric cars can leave the traditional muscle car in the dust.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

vadsy said:


> Street racing is a huge thing


 Where. ? I never see it at the lights.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Distortion said:


> Where. ? I never see it at the lights.


lulz. You’re probably right,., it’s a thing of past


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

vadsy said:


> Street racing is a huge thing and most electric cars can leave the traditional muscle car in the dust.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

laristotle said:


>


I'm not sure what happened there, are we getting the dumplings or the dumplings?


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Wardo said:


> that hasn’t been my experience with them. I have a 2010 F150 XLT V8 and all it has cost me is oil, one battery, one set of tires, brakes and the MAF needed to be cleaned. This one should go another 5 years easy and my previous F150 went for 18 years.
> 
> Their cars may be no good but the trucks do well and there’s no way I’m driving a car anyway so works for me.


I agree. I'm very familiar with a fleet of over 200 Ford trucks. 95% of them are 1998's. F150's, F250's, F350SD's and E350's. The dam things won't die and they aren't costing much to keep running either, so the company won't replace them. 

My own truck is a 2012 F150. All it's had so far is a battery, a rad hose, a set of tires, and regular servicing.

Some people just have the ability to turn everything they touch into junk. It doesn't matter what you give them, they will destroy it in short order. (and then bitch about it)


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Distortion said:


> Probably not a bad idea. Street racing is a big no no now . So the muscle car is on its way out.


From the way things look around here There's a lot of people driving a lot of different cars, new and old, who've never heard this.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

GT version does 0-60 in mid 3 secs.
When the soccer moms start blowing away the muscle cars light to light, maybe we'll see some nice price drops on the old iron.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


>


Now get in those cars here and head for Vancouver. Recharge or refuel when you have to.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jb welder said:


> GT version does 0-60 in mid 3 secs.
> When the soccer moms start blowing away the muscle cars light to light, maybe we'll see some nice price drops on the old iron.


I doubt that. And 10 years from now the soccer mom vans will be probably rusting away with nobody wanting them. The old iron, two, three or four wheeled will still be in high demand. I wonder if Mike has sold his property yet?
4164 Eldon Frontage Road, Tappen, BC


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jb. Do you mean this? I don't think that's an electric soccer mom vehicle there.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

The spec for the GT version of the Mach electric being discussed is 0-60 in mid 3 secs. It's not really up for debate.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jb welder said:


> The spec for the GT version of the Mach electric being discussed is 0-60 in mid 3 secs. It's not really up for debate.


We'll see what hits the streets in 2021.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> I doubt that. And 10 years from now the soccer mom vans will be probably rusting away with nobody wanting them. The old iron, two, three or four wheeled will still be in high demand. I wonder if Mike has sold his property yet?
> 4164 Eldon Frontage Road, Tappen, BC


almost 4 years on the market,., man, demand is clearly super high for all that 'iron'. rusting slowly but surely stuff


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Lincoln said:


> I agree. I'm very familiar with a fleet of over 200 Ford trucks. 95% of them are 1998's. F150's, F250's, F350SD's and E350's. The dam things won't die and they aren't costing much to keep running either, so the company won't replace them.
> 
> My own truck is a 2012 F150. All it's had so far is a battery, a rad hose, a set of tires, and regular servicing.
> 
> Some people just have the ability to turn everything they touch into junk. It doesn't matter what you give them, they will destroy it in short order. (and then bitch about it)


Funny, I've seen a whole fleet of 5.4L Fords fly apart randomly like surplus munitions. The pre-97 F series were goold old trucks. I have an '86 5.0L. The 7.3L Powerstroke was indestructible.

Dad had good luck with his 02 4.2L V6. But the fact is the modular V8 in the F150s were garbage engines. The 4.6 was OK, and the 5.4 was atrocious. I killed my '11 5.4 in under 80k km. The Ecoboost V6 worked great for the short bursts in between trips to the dealer. 

The newer Powerstrokes were powerful garbage, but that wasn't Ford's fault. Blame Navistar and the f'ing EPA.

The new 5.0L is showing great promise though. With the new 2019+ Chev/GMC. being so damn ugly, the F150 may actually be the best option right now.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

cboutilier said:


> Funny, I've seen a whole fleet of 5.4L Fords fly apart randomly like surplus munitions. The pre-97 F series were goold old trucks. I have an '86 5.0L. The 7.3L Powerstroke was indestructible.
> 
> Dad had good luck with his 02 4.2L V6. But the fact is the modular V8 in the F150s were garbage engines. The 4.6 was OK, and the 5.4 was atrocious. I killed my '11 5.4 in under 80k km. The Ecoboost V6 worked great for the short bursts in between trips to the dealer.
> 
> ...


certain years of 5.4's (2003 to 2006) were pretty shitty alright. Before and after that, they were much better. We have probably 50% of that fleet I mentioned running 5.4's without a problem. Never had a problem with ecoboosts either, other than spark plugs and coils. Sounds like you need to find a better dealer.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

vadsy said:


> Street racing is a huge thing and most electric cars can leave the traditional muscle car in the dust.


'tis true even if less obvious. I see fools trying to be the first to the next red light all the time.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

vadsy said:


> that’s right, because no one is buying vans


Appears you are correct but one year does not a trend make.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

I haven't read the entire thread so have no idea if anyone else has mentioned this, but Ford no longer makes cars for the North American market (or won't after 2020). Because SUVs and pickups are the biggest sellers, they have completely stopped, or are about to completely stop, making cars for the North American market. They will still make them for other markets though.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Electric motors are pretty much bullet proof. And if they did fail, swaps are simple and cheap.......
Once these come out I cant see much demand for the old hat........


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Sure, the electric cars are quicker. Instant torque from those electric motors compared to gas engines having to spool up a bit to make similar torque figures. But if you really want great gas mileage, you want a BMW M3. Seriously.







It really depends on which information you selectively choose. And how you frame it.

And there it happened again --- James May being much smarter and more informed in this regard than 'sister' Lizzy.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Sure, the electric cars are quicker. Instant torque from those electric motors compared to gas engines having to spool up a bit to make similar torque figures. But if you really want great gas mileage, you want a BMW M3. Seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Didn't see too much of May, Just Jeremy Clarkson. That being said, ever since they put that goof from some tv show on Top Gear has gone down hill.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Accept2 said:


> Electric motors are pretty much bullet proof. And if they did fail, swaps are simple and cheap.......
> Once these come out I cant see much demand for the old hat........


Damn, I want that tow strap. I wonder how long it took until they got the brakes on the train co-ordinated? Mostly the vid shows how easy it is to move rail cars on the level. Once they get moving they're a bit harder to stop without air. Can't see it reducing the demand for regular trucks much tho.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I’m ok with them making an electric version of the Mustang, but making it a X-over or SUV would not be cool in my opinion.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Damn, I want that tow strap. I wonder how long it took until they got the brakes on the train co-ordinated? Mostly the vid shows how easy it is to move rail cars on the level. Once they get moving they're a bit harder to stop without air. Can't see it reducing the demand for regular trucks much tho.


Actually pretty easy. Electrical systems integrate much much simpler and react much quicker than mechanical systems. Benefits: More range than a gas/diesel vehicle; integration with equipment (drills, saws, etc), way, way more towing capacity, better reliability, cheaper operating expenses. Trucks are where electrics will excel and be more accepted than cars........


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Although a large percentage of the half tons are being used as cars; probably more than are used as work trucks.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Wardo said:


> Although a large percentage of the half tons are being used as cars; probably more than are used as work trucks.


Very true. Same goes for SUVs.

People tend to buy vehicles more as a fashion or status statement than as a practical object.

How many escalades, navigators or other high end SUVs do you see covered in mud?

If an SUV is intended as a vehicle that can go off road and has high ground clearance for rough terrain, I’d say 75% of them are not used that way.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

That’s the stereotype but people also just buy what they like for many reasons with no mud or fashion statement involved.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Milkman said:


> Very true. Same goes for SUVs.
> 
> People tend to buy vehicles more as a fashion or status statement than as a practical object.
> 
> ...


I don't take my 4 wheel drive off road either. I had to switch to an SUV after the city cut back on plowing and I couldn't get out of my street many days the last few winters.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> I don't take my 4 wheel drive off road either. I had to switch to an SUV after the city cut back on plowing and I couldn't get out of my street many days the last few winters.


There are regions where snowfall is a factor, but in Southern Ontario, a decent sedan with snow tires is more than enough.

Certainly there no need for added clearance or 4WD in my area, but there are lots and lots of them around.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Milkman said:


> There are regions where snowfall is a factor, but in Southern Ontario, a decent sedan with snow tires is more than enough.
> 
> Certainly there no need for added clearance or 4WD in my area, but there are lots and lots of them around.


I wished I lived in that part of Ontario!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> I wished I lived in that part of Ontario!


That’s where most of Ontarians live I think.

That would include Toronto, Hamilton, London, Brantford, Cambridge, Kitchener, Guelph et cetera.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Milkman said:


> That’s where most of Ontarians live I think.
> 
> That would include Toronto, Hamilton, London, Brantford, Cambridge, Kitchener, Guelph et cetera.


1 million of us Ottawan's are keeping Ontario from tilting.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> 1 million of us Ottawan's are keeping Ontario from tilting.


Yeah you guys do get a full dose of winter.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Milkman said:


> V
> 
> If an SUV is intended as a vehicle that can go off road and has high ground clearance for rough terrain, I’d say 75% of them are not used that way.


They are today's minivans - which were yesterday's station wagons.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> They are today's minivans - which were yesterday's station wagons.


Yes, true, but personally, and this is just my opinion of course, minivans do the job better in most cases.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Milkman said:


> Very true. Same goes for SUVs.
> 
> People tend to buy vehicles more as a fashion or status statement than as a practical object.
> 
> ...


I ride my bicycle through numerous school zones at 'schools out' time. I have to dodge all of the parents waiting to pick up kids, most of them in 3/4 ton trucks and huge SUV's, and there to pick up one or two kids. That's what the driving environment looks like out in the 'burbs, where I live. I wouldn't think 10% of those vehicles ever get used for what they are designed for. Those vehicles are chosen with an eye on status and not practicality (or the environment).

Remember, these are the same people that stop traffic on Fridays and scold everyone else to fix the climate problem - something they apparently don't really want to do themselves, by the looks of their personal choices. Why not walk to the school and walk your kids home?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> I ride my bicycle through numerous school zones at 'schools out' time. I have to dodge all of the parents waiting to pick up kids, most of them in 3/4 ton trucks and huge SUV's, and there to pick up one or two kids. That's what the driving environment looks like out in the 'burbs, where I live. I wouldn't think 10% of those vehicles ever get used for what they are designed for. Those vehicles are chosen with an eye on status and not practicality (or the environment).
> 
> Remember, these are the same people that stop traffic on Fridays and scold everyone else to fix the climate problem - something they apparently don't really want to do themselves, by the looks of their personal choices. Why not walk to the school and walk your kids home?


you don't say, most of them 3/4 ton trucks?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

vadsy said:


> you don't say, most of them 3/4 ton trucks?


Lots of heavy kids in Southern Ontario.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Milkman said:


> Lots of heavy kids in Southern Ontario.


Like these?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> Like these?
> View attachment 280270


Or these.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Accept2 said:


> Actually pretty easy. Electrical systems integrate much much simpler and react much quicker than mechanical systems. Benefits: More range than a gas/diesel vehicle; integration with equipment (drills, saws, etc), way, way more towing capacity, better reliability, cheaper operating expenses. Trucks are where electrics will excel and be more accepted than cars........


serious questions. 

what is your home setup like for the vehicle charging system? what kind of supply equipment in the garage and what kind of power are you feeding it with? house panel main service breaker size? are you using any sort of home energy management system? what are charge times like?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Accept2 said:


> Actually pretty easy. Electrical systems integrate much much simpler and react much quicker than mechanical systems. Benefits: More range than a gas/diesel vehicle; integration with equipment (drills, saws, etc), way, way more towing capacity, better reliability, cheaper operating expenses. Trucks are where electrics will excel and be more accepted than cars........


Well, I question the more range part given the way things are right now. Up to a point electrical vehicles are fine I guess in an urban situation but take them out of the city any distance and they suck. If they don't run out of charge then you have a large down time as they recharge.....if you can find a place for them to recharge. Towing capacity, no big deal......read some of the comments on the train car video. Integration with equipment? That's what generators are for and battery powered tools. If you're out on the job site and are recharging a dozen or so saw, drill and other batteries using the truck isn't going to affect take power the truck? I'll take a fuel powered truck with a generator any day. 
I can just see pulling up to a jobsite and having to plug a truck into a generator and waiting a few hours or so to recharge it then trying to tow a heavily loaded trailer up a 4% grade in the dirt and driving 150 or so miles back, stopping at least once for an hour or so to recharge the truck......if you can find a place to recharge it.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> I’m ok with them making an electric version of the Mustang, but making it a X-over or SUV would not be cool in my opinion.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

1SweetRide said:


> 1 million of us Ottawan's are keeping Ontario from tilting.


Just don't let it slide into Quebec or the states.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> Well, I question the more range part given the way things are right now. Up to a point electrical vehicles are fine I guess in an urban situation but take them out of the city any distance and they suck. If they don't run out of charge then you have a large down time as they recharge.....if you can find a place for them to recharge. Towing capacity, no big deal......read some of the comments on the train car video. Integration with equipment? That's what generators are for and battery powered tools. If you're out on the job site and are recharging a dozen or so saw, drill and other batteries using the truck isn't going to affect take power the truck? I'll take a fuel powered truck with a generator any day.
> I can just see pulling up to a jobsite and having to plug a truck into a generator and waiting a few hours or so to recharge it then trying to tow a heavily loaded trailer up a 4% grade in the dirt and driving 150 or so miles back, stopping at least once for an hour or so to recharge the truck......if you can find a place to recharge it.


You're talking about specific work conditions in a specific type of workplace though. Of course an Oilfield surveyor or someone who uses vehicles for long distances isn't going to benefit from this tech. At least not at this point. But in the city most people drive to and from work on a daily basis without ever needing to leave the city. I think you have to look at the bigger picture when it comes to what coming our way in the future. Nothing is as cut and dried as you're making it out to be honestly. I'll bet that "old Henry", and I ain't talkin chocolate bars, was getting the same flac from the guys in their horse and carriage back in the day when he introduced the gas powered transportation devices we now take for granted as well. Don't dwell on the past, look ahead to the future.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> They are today's minivans - which were yesterday's station wagons.


So the Mustang thing is today's version of this?








Will the Mustang suv take 4 adults, 6 kids and a dog on a 1000 mile long weekend to see grandma? "99 bottles of beer on the wall....."


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> So the Mustang thing is today's version of this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you should probably fly or get a 15 passenger van, or a motorhome, or use protection more often, or tell grandma to visit since her place aint gonna fit you and she should be more accommodating


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


> You're talking about specific work conditions in a specific type of workplace though. Of course an Oilfield surveyor or someone who uses vehicles for long distances isn't going to benefit from this tech. At least not at this point. But in the city most people drive to and from work on a daily basis without ever needing to leave the city. I think you have to look at the bigger picture when it comes to what coming our way in the future. Nothing is as cut and dried as you're making it out to be honestly. I'll bet that "old Henry", and I ain't talkin chocolate bars, was getting the same flac from the guys in their horse and carriage back in the day when he introduced the gas powered transportation devices we now take for granted as well. Don't dwell on the past, look ahead to the future.


Actually in today's world most people live a fair distance from where they work. Say you live in Wetaskawin and work for Suncor in Ft. Sask. That's more than an hr. drive at the best of times and a lot of it is stop and go. Not too sure how many recharging stations Suncor has. When they put recharging stations all over the place, maybe. As far as cut and dried goes, not everybody lives in "the city" and not everyone has a short drive. "Looking at the bigger picture when it comes to what's coming our way...." I've been hearing that all my life tho I do agree that most people drive to and from work and never leave the city. Trapped and won't escape. "Old Henry" got some flak but he wasn't the first by a long shot. James Watt got the same flak. That being said they were still using horses and other forms of transportation long after Henry brought out his "Horseless carriage".


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## Gavz (Feb 27, 2016)

Make an electric station wagon or minivan. I'll buy one. Most SUVs and sedans are basic people movers and real-world fuel economy is a sure let down for most urbanites. I miss those 80s Japanese vehicles, real bang for your buck cars.

Sent from my SM-A205W using Tapatalk


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Chassis will be good with a good old 5 liter and 4.6 fuel injected v8. They will be coming also thank goodness.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Accept2 said:


> Electric motors are pretty much bullet proof. And if they did fail, swaps are simple and cheap.......



Andy Dickens, Race car driver, car restorer, Porsche performance driving instructor
Answered Mar 11, 2019 · Author has 2.1k answers and 991.9k answer views
I replaced a motor in a Tesla Model 3 by myself. The motor came from a Tesla salvage yard for $7k and the installation took around 4 hours, but I had to get Tesla to program the car to accept the new motor"
This is from someone who has a fair idea about what he's doing and has the tools, space and time to do it. Then the car still had to go back to Tesla to be programed. And that's a wrecker motor assy. Doesn't sound all that simple and cheap to me.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> Andy Dickens, Race car driver, car restorer, Porsche performance driving instructor
> Answered Mar 11, 2019 · Author has 2.1k answers and 991.9k answer views
> I replaced a motor in a Tesla Model 3 by myself. The motor came from a Tesla salvage yard for $7k and the installation took around 4 hours, but I had to get Tesla to program the car to accept the new motor"
> This is from someone who has a fair idea about what he's doing and has the tools, space and time to do it. Then the car still had to go back to Tesla to be programed. And that's a wrecker motor assy. Doesn't sound all that simple and cheap to me.


now do the same comparison with internal combustion motor


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> Andy Dickens, Race car driver, car restorer, Porsche performance driving instructor
> Answered Mar 11, 2019 · Author has 2.1k answers and 991.9k answer views
> I replaced a motor in a Tesla Model 3 by myself. The motor came from a Tesla salvage yard for $7k and the installation took around 4 hours, but I had to get Tesla to program the car to accept the new motor"
> This is from someone who has a fair idea about what he's doing and has the tools, space and time to do it. Then the car still had to go back to Tesla to be programed. And that's a wrecker motor assy. Doesn't sound all that simple and cheap to me.


Same thing has to happen with gas powered domestics. Any computer programing is done at the dealer. A dial up interface to head office. Even the mechanic does not no what is going on. True story


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Distortion said:


> Same thing has to happen with domestics. Any computer programing is done at the dealer. A dial up interface to head office. Even the mechanic does not now what is going on. True story


I think the argument will be,. "in the 70's we didn't need to do that ..."


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

The ownership costs of an electric vehicle make a case that is somewhat valid today for some city drivers and commuters - but the calculations will have to be tossed in the can and redone once the governments lose significant revenue from fuel taxes. At that point the cost of electricity will at least double as the excise taxes are transferred. We won't be able to do anything about that because the oil fields and distribution systems will have ceased to exist. There will be no alternate sources of energy other than electricity and control of that will be sewn up very nicely.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Well, I am not a Mustang guy but I find that car looks quite like some sort of Porsche Cayenne.
But there is something strange here. 
Mustang owners would get them in storage during Winter, right ? Why make it an SUV ?

By rhe way, CAA just published a study comparing six different electric cars :
By minus 6 degrees, the efficency of their batteries drop by some 40 % compared to their mileage at 23 degrees.

Then, I wanted to compare autonomy of different cars and found a table where I could make kind of a rule of the thumb if you will, understanding that autonomy is around 100 km for 100kwh battery power... and every 100kwh add 10000$ to the price of the car. I need at least 350km when I drive to visit my parents.
So, an electric car worth 35.000$ (plus taxes !) would run 350 km in summer, but less than 200km in Winter.

The reference is in French, but the comparative table is easy to understand.
Comparatif autonomie des voitures électriques - Les voitures électriques

Someone referred to an article about sales volume in BC : I do not have the numbers in Quebec, but they sell quite much here as Quebec (max. 8.000$) and Ottawa will sum up their rebates to some $10.000 plus 2.000$ for the 220V plug...

Now, guess what ? Taxes on gas already bring less money to cities and governments, so they are thinking about a tax on electric vehicules mileage. Yes sir !

Bottom line : I will not drive anymore when we run out of gas !


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> Actually in today's world most people live a fair distance from where they work. Say you live in Wetaskawin and work for Suncor in Ft. Sask. That's more than an hr. drive at the best of times and a lot of it is stop and go. Not too sure how many recharging stations Suncor has. When they put recharging stations all over the place, maybe. As far as cut and dried goes, not everybody lives in "the city" and not everyone has a short drive. "Looking at the bigger picture when it comes to what's coming our way...." I've been hearing that all my life tho I do agree that most people drive to and from work and never leave the city. Trapped and won't escape. "Old Henry" got some flak but he wasn't the first by a long shot. James Watt got the same flak. That being said they were still using horses and other forms of transportation long after Henry brought out his "Horseless carriage".


I think this topic is a really good discussion point for everyone. Keep in mind I'm not a car guy whatsoever. But I'm in the age group with Gen Z kids. So I'm playing Devils advocate here a bit as well. I just Googled charge stations in Edmonton, Red Deer and Calgary. Counted over 20 in each of Edmonton and Calgary and 5 Gasoline Alley. Alberta government announced a plan to fund electric chargers in February. SO it isn't there for everybody yet, but it's a coming. There's even a couple in Lethbridge at this point. they're all over the place. Van has a shitload of em as well..


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


> I think this topic is a really good discussion point for everyone. Keep in mind I'm not a car guy whatsoever. But I'm in the age group with Gen Z kids. So I'm playing Devils advocate here a bit as well. I just Googled charge stations in Edmonton, Red Deer and Calgary. Counted over 20 in each of Edmonton and Calgary and 5 Gasoline Alley. Alberta government announced a plan to fund electric chargers in February. SO it isn't there for everybody yet, but it's a coming. There's even a couple in Lethbridge at this point. they're all over the place. Van has a shitload of em as well..


The ones in Red Deer are kinda hard to get to for some. Bower Mall has two, there's one by the south CT and one of the hotels has 5.....probably a few more around.....which is fine when you pull off 2 and know where to go. Some of them are useable only at certain times.....I know the Bower Mall ones and the Peavy Mart ones are not 24 hr. Try going from say Edmonton to Prince George or Edmonton to Saskatoon on 16. And quit looking at just the large cities unless you're going to stay there. From Calgary to Vancouver going on the Trans Can there's maybe 25 if that that are accessible to most traffic. Miss Canmore or Banff and you'd better hope that you make Golden......and plan to make a long stop there. Keep in mind that I am a car and motorcycle guy and have grand kids in your age group. (From what they tell me I have a grand daughter old enough to be your mother). I figure it's going to take probably another 20 or so years if not more before electric vehicles will fill most of the spaces that fuel powered vehicles fill now.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mawmow said:


> Well, I am not a Mustang guy but I find that car looks quite like some sort of Porsche Cayenne.
> But there is something strange here.
> Mustang owners would get them in storage during Winter, right ? Why make it an SUV ?
> 
> ...


So in otherwords driving across the Rogers pass in January could just leave you stranded some where. Sounds like warm weather city vehicles to me.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)




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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> The ones in Red Deer are kinda hard to get to for some. Bower Mall has two, there's one by the south CT and one of the hotels has 5.....probably a few more around.....which is fine when you pull off 2 and know where to go. Some of them are useable only at certain times.....I know the Bower Mall ones and the Peavy Mart ones are not 24 hr. Try going from say Edmonton to Prince George or Edmonton to Saskatoon on 16. And quit looking at just the large cities unless you're going to stay there. From Calgary to Vancouver going on the Trans Can there's maybe 25 if that that are accessible to most traffic. Miss Canmore or Banff and you'd better hope that you make Golden......and plan to make a long stop there. Keep in mind that I am a car and motorcycle guy and have grand kids in your age group. (From what they tell me I have a grand daughter old enough to be your mother). I figure it's going to take probably another 20 or so years if not more before electric vehicles will fill most of the spaces that fuel powered vehicles fill now.



Yeah, I get what your saying. The point is that there are many options now, electric being one of them. I'm just curious why you 'seem' to be so dead set against it. Maybe your not, I don't know. Your point about ensuring you get enough charge before a long trip will only stand in so far as the tech may or may not have arrived yet to get you to your destination. You have to make sure you fill up with gas in certain areas or you'll be shitting in the woods and hunting for rabbits with what you have in the gasoline powered vehicle as well. So that point is entirely moot except for the fact that we know how far X amount of gas gets us. If we pay attention.

On your point about Rogers pass, c'mon now. We both know that that road can take any gas powered vehicle and eat it for lunch, shit it out, and start all over again given the right conditions. But I wouldn't take an electric on that route anyway lol. At least not at this point in time. And especially not in the middle of January. That would be stupid.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

The problem with range isn’t so much the actual distance (most cars tanks are sized to get approximately 500 km give or take as opposed to electric now getting in the 350 km vicinity) it’s the length of time to refill as opposed to recharging combined with the availability of refilling as opposed to recharging stations, especially in more remote areas.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Can't see an electric car being much use for a lengthy side road tour in january when it's minus 20 in the middle of no where.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> So in otherwords driving across the Rogers pass in January could just leave you stranded some where. Sounds like warm weather city vehicles to me.


I was amazed how many Teslas I saw in BC going to and from Penticton this past summer. Every hotel we stayed and every gas station had chargers. I still don't understand how you heat these things on a -35 degree Calgary morning though. That must eat half of your battery power by the time you get to work.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

mawmow said:


> Bottom line : I will not drive anymore when we run out of gas !


I'm gonna find me a horse. Just about this big.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

500 km to the tank? 
wait times for recharging ?
electric all sewn up ?

try 1000km / tank ... std fill times ... and no waiting for a charge port .... DIESEL
the latest testing with DEF ( newer injection methods ) rival burning hydrogen for emissions .

if its an oil , diesel will burn it (sunflower, rape seed, corn oil , waste vegetable oil , transmission fluid, used engine dino oil )

let those who want electrics buy electrics ....

just leave me and my diesels alone 
filtered / processed right and you have a life time supply for almost nothing .


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Yeah 500 km to the tank. Getting 1000 km to the tank is really easy. Just use a bigger tank. Most cars use a tank purposefully sized to get between 500-600 km range based on the engine size/efficiency. It always amazes me when people brag about how they get 800 -1000 km to a tank....like that reflects efficiency with the fact that it’s a bigger tank is somehow forgotten. Sure diesels often get better mileage but not as much better as most people think.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I'm starting to wonder if the most optimal places to use electric cars are also the most optimal places to use public transit.


Dorian2 said:


> The point is that there are many options now, electric being one of them.


The plan is to phase out vehicles that run on fossil fuels. When that happens there won't be a choice.

If we phase out oil (like we phased out most of our manufacturing) and this whole plan to go Electric turns out to be a bust just imagine how dependent we will be on countries that still produce oil (and what it will cost).

Anybody tried to by a North American TV or vacuum tube lately?


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Sneaky said:


> I was amazed how many Teslas I saw in BC going to and from Penticton this past summer. Every hotel we stayed and every gas station had chargers. I still don't understand how you heat these things on a -35 degree Calgary morning though. That must eat half of your battery power by the time you get to work.


Teslas and other EV's are very common in the Vancouver and lower mainland area. No idea if they are a half decent winter car as it really doesn't matter here. My wife's friend has one and I know she loves it for it's power, features and HOV lane accessibility. Charging at home is simply accomplished through the dryer outlet and an adapter and cord that Tesla provides.
I'm pretty sure at least one of our household's next vehicle will be electric. If they ever get the towing and hauling range issues ever figured out, I'll be driving an electric truck.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

JBFairthorne said:


> Sure diesels often get better mileage but not as much better as most people think.


last trip I took , I managed 59MPG canadian ( #$*(*&^%$ the tank size... a pet peeve of mine too ) 
full sized sedan


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> The plan is to phase out vehicles that run on fossil fuels. When that happens there won't be a choice.



European countries banning fossil fuel cars and switching to electric


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Accept2 said:


> Electric motors are pretty much bullet proof.



What about in really cold temperatures?


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Milkman said:


> If an SUV is intended as a vehicle that can go off road and has high ground clearance for rough terrain, I’d say 75% of them are not used that way.



I bought my new SUV (Jeep Cherokee) for safety, handling (particularly in winter), etc. I never really intended to take it off-road, but have twice in the month I've had it.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

colchar said:


> What about in really cold temperatures?


An electric thermal blanket wrapped around the motor?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Curious, all the folks complaining about EVs - have you driven one?

Have you ever driven an electric vehicle of any sort?


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I was in one once.

People can drive whatever they want but an electric car is just not something that would suit me or any car for that matter. I prefer half ton trucks and find them enjoyable to drive.

Electrics seem expensive for what they are and as the technology is developing yesterday’s car is likely to be worthless in the face of the next generation.

I’ve seen material asserting that from cradle to grave an electric causes more pollution than a BMW 6 banger so the hype on electrics may be fraudulent much as it is with carbon taxes and other green scams.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Sneaky said:


> I was amazed how many Teslas I saw in BC going to and from Penticton this past summer. Every hotel we stayed and every gas station had chargers. I still don't understand how you heat these things on a -35 degree Calgary morning though. That must eat half of your battery power by the time you get to work.


One of the big drawbacks. Figure what it would be like to ski Silver Star or Big White for a day then hope there's a charger available when you get back to your hotel. If you ski holiday at Apex and live in Calgary you stop what, 4 times to recharge depending on which way you go. That's what, 4 hrs down time?


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

For those who insist on trucks and vintage stuff, would you drive this electric?  
Once the chassis/drivetrains are mainstream, there will be no end to the custom bodies that can be bolted to them. Of course if you don't like torque...










My ancestors went on and on about how you couldn't get gas for those newfangled motorcars 'hardly anywheres!', not like how you could get hay at any old stagecoach stop.
Lo and behold, they built more gas stations! Of course since that happened, it's now impossible to find hay or oats anywhere on the planet. 
The charge time is a major limitation, but so was range, and they've really improved that in a fairly short time, I'm sure they will find a way to shorten the charge time, or do module swaps.



Electraglide said:


> I figure it's going to take probably another 20 or so years if not more before electric vehicles will fill most of the spaces that fuel powered vehicles fill now.


That's not very long. A 2000 model vehicle doesn't seem very old to me. But I think you are off by about 10yrs, though many experts think we will be seeing major change in as little as 5 yrs.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


> Yeah, I get what your saying. The point is that there are many options now, electric being one of them. I'm just curious why you 'seem' to be so dead set against it. Maybe your not, I don't know. Your point about ensuring you get enough charge before a long trip will only stand in so far as the tech may or may not have arrived yet to get you to your destination. You have to make sure you fill up with gas in certain areas or you'll be shitting in the woods and hunting for rabbits with what you have in the gasoline powered vehicle as well. So that point is entirely moot except for the fact that we know how far X amount of gas gets us. If we pay attention.
> 
> On your point about Rogers pass, c'mon now. We both know that that road can take any gas powered vehicle and eat it for lunch, shit it out, and start all over again given the right conditions. But I wouldn't take an electric on that route anyway lol. At least not at this point in time. And especially not in the middle of January. That would be stupid.


If your only vehicle is your Tesla? And going from Alberta to BC, summer or winter the Pass is one of 5 routes. You don't have much of a choice. As they are right now I don't see electric vehicles as a practical option especially for out of city driving. Especially at the price but I can say the same about most modern vehicles but at least in a fuel vehicle you can carry extra fuel.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jb welder said:


> For those who insist on trucks and vintage stuff, would you drive this electric?
> Once the chassis/drivetrains are mainstream, there will be no end to the custom bodies that can be bolted to them. Of course if you don't like torque...
> 
> 
> ...


20 years might not be long for you, for me that's a different story. I'll stand by that. As far as your truck goes I'd drive it once or twice. Give me the original......not lowered. And with steel rims and 16s on it. Just in case put an extra 15 gal saddle in it. Where I go there's no place to charge an electric vehicle. Hay and oats.....they just finished harvest around here so those aren't in short supply.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Budda said:


> Curious, all the folks complaining about EVs - have you driven one?
> 
> Have you ever driven an electric vehicle of any sort?


Do hybrids count? If so, yes.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> Curious, all the folks complaining about EVs - have you driven one?
> 
> Have you ever driven an electric vehicle of any sort?


Yes. Back in the late 60s a friend who's into steam, electrical vehicles etc. built an electric car based on a VW Square Back. Drove that a few times. He also built a solar powered one. In a couple of jobs I drove electric forklifts....they had to be charged all the time....and I've taken the occasional electric vehicle out for a test drive but the Tesla guys here won't let you do much. Ran an electric mini bike until the battery died. That didn't take long. Not too sure if the owner ever charged it after that. 
Tried one of the electric foot scooters here this summer but they're too expensive in the long run and you need all sorts of things I don't have on your cell phone. It's a wonder more people aren't hurt on them or by them.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Budda said:


> Curious, all the folks complaining about EVs - have you driven one?
> 
> Have you ever driven an electric vehicle of any sort?


Golf cart count?


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

colchar said:


> What about in really cold temperatures?


Electric motors dont need air, which is why they were used on the moon. Cold enough for ya? In fact all space travel outside the atmosphere is done with_ electric _ion motors. There is a business reason electric cars are limited (remember the holographic disc being milked as a cd, vcd, dvd, bluray and then finally the holographic disc to maximize profits?) and it has to do with them wanting you to buy the other stuff first. Once everyone starts releasing and competing with their best tech, then you will see the good stuff. 2020 to 2021 we will see about 200kWh batteries and 4 motor vehicles being sold. By 2025, those batteries will be a fraction of the size as they will shift to solid state. It will happen that fast because we dont want to be left behind by the Chinese or Europeans.......


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

colchar said:


> I bought my new SUV (Jeep Cherokee) for safety, handling (particularly in winter), etc. I never really intended to take it off-road, but have twice in the month I've had it.


Safety? High center of gravity = easier flipovers, suspension is bouncy....
Handling? = Different strokes I guess, but SUVs really don’t handle well by my standards

People buy what they like and that's not something open for debate, but what I hear from many SUV and truck owners seems like rationalization.

A car handles best and a lower center of gravity is more stable and safer in my opinion.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Milkman said:


> Safety? High center of gravity = easier flipovers, suspension is bouncy....
> Handling? = Different strokes I guess, but SUVs really don’t handle well by my standards
> 
> People buy what they like and that's not something open for debate, but what I hear from many SUV and truck owners seems like rationalization.
> ...


True, but you can get pretty good handling in some SUVs. I've driven a lot of cars including taking professional lessons and my little Ford Escape handles almost as well as my BMW 325i. Not sure what Ford did, but they made it feel very well balanced and taught.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> True, but you can get pretty good handling in some SUVs. I've driven a lot of cars including taking professional lessons and my little Ford Escape handles almost as well as my BMW 325i. Not sure what Ford did, but they made it feel very well balanced and taught.


I’m sure that’s true to an extent. I haven’t made a study of testing SUVs so I’ll take your word for it.

But, you can’t really cure that high center of gravity with technology and I really like my ass as close to the pave as I can get it.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Milkman said:


> I’m sure that’s true to an extent. I haven’t made a study of testing SUVs so I’ll take your word for it.
> 
> But, you can’t really cure that high center of gravity with technology and I really like my ass as close to the pave as I can get it.


Absolutely. You can't fake physics. But tire makeup, anti-roll, shock absorbers and other tech can reduce the likelihood of an upset.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> Absolutely. You can't fake physics. But tire makeup, anti-roll, shock absorbers and other tech can reduce the likelihood of an upset.


Yup, it really comes down to personal taste i guess, but those are countermeasures, some pretty effective, some not so much.

I prefer to solve or eliminate the root cause.

And of course it does come down to style.

I rent a lot of cars in the course of business travel so I get to try a lot of different vehicles. I’ve come to understand what I like and that’s generally small, nimble, strong and if possible RWD.

Getting back to the original topic, I’m very receptive to the electric option.

I’m watched with great amusement the Youtube clips of Teslas walking away from Dodge Hellcats.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Milkman said:


> I really like my ass as close to the pave as I can get it.


So do I, but my body reminds me that I can't climb out of them anymore. lol


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

laristotle said:


> So do I, but my body reminds me that I can't climb out of them anymore. lol


I get that. It’s a whole different method of getting in and out.

Once you’re seated though.....very ergonomic. Everything’s close and easy to reach.

And oh,, that blessed acceleration!!!

Cornering? Oh baby.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

So no one here has really driven a current EV let alone owned one, but you all have something to say.

Reminds me of threads about certain brands of guitars.

Continue.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Jetsons anyone?






Or do you prefer the Flintstones?


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Budda said:


> Curious, all the folks complaining about EVs - have you driven one?
> 
> Have you ever driven an electric vehicle of any sort?


Nope ! And I will not !
Any new car roll fine, for sure.
But no need to climb a ladder and put a slip knot around my neck to find that a bad idea...
Simple study makes the job.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Budda said:


> So no one here has really driven a current EV let alone owned one, but you all have something to say.
> 
> Reminds me of threads about certain brands of guitars.
> 
> Continue.


Easy big fella..

You're making assumptions.

Most of us have likely driven a few electrics. I know I have.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Did I tell you about my brother-in-law's experience with an hybrid ? Here it is.

He used to own a gas only Honda Fit as I remember. He was considering to get an hybrid. 

First, he fueled his old gas only car, made a road test and fueled again to see how it drank : 7,3l/100km.

Then went to the dealer to try an hybrid model. Went to fuel it. Made the same road test. Fueled again. 
Result : 7,4l/100km.

Went back to the dealer and asked for an explanation. Got none !

I gave him this known explanation. It was a cold November month. 
Under +5 degrees, most hybrids would run only on the gas engine. 
So, during Winter, an hybrid just move heavy expensive useless batteries ! 

CAA study just made it clear why companies do so : 
Batteries lose 40% efficiency at minus six degrees.

Too bad for the electric cars...


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Budda said:


> So no one here has really driven a current EV let alone owned one, but you all have something to say.
> 
> Reminds me of threads about certain brands of guitars.
> 
> Continue.


Simply put, I don't have faith in the technology and I'm not wealthy enough to experiment.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

JBFairthorne said:


> Yeah 500 km to the tank. Getting 1000 km to the tank is really easy. Just use a bigger tank. Most cars use a tank purposefully sized to get between 500-600 km range based on the engine size/efficiency. It always amazes me when people brag about how they get 800 -1000 km to a tank....like that reflects efficiency with the fact that it’s a bigger tank is somehow forgotten. Sure diesels often get better mileage but not as much better as most people think.


Depending on how it's driven ex #3"s Charger gets more than 800 km to a tank on the highway.....she has a lead foot. My 1500 Dodge Ram got better than 650 km when it got on the highway. My F150 was about the same. The Chevy Equinox got the same if not better than the Charger. (better gas mileage, smaller tank) That means with a full tank of gas they all go a lot further than and electric car with a full charge......and you didn't have to spend time looking for a place to refill and hours on end refilling. That might change in years to come but it's today that matters to most folks. That to me is more efficient.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Accept2 said:


> Electric motors dont need air, which is why they were used on the moon. Cold enough for ya? In fact all space travel outside the atmosphere is done with_ electric _ion motors. There is a business reason electric cars are limited (remember the holographic disc being milked as a cd, vcd, dvd, bluray and then finally the holographic disc to maximize profits?) and it has to do with them wanting you to buy the other stuff first. Once everyone starts releasing and competing with their best tech, then you will see the good stuff. 2020 to 2021 we will see about 200kWh batteries and 4 motor vehicles being sold. By 2025, those batteries will be a fraction of the size as they will shift to solid state. It will happen that fast because we dont want to be left behind by the Chinese or Europeans.......


There's no moisture or gravity to deal with in space and the loads those motors are under are different too. As far as space travel in outer space, (yeah I know that's redundant) I thought that was done with rocket motors, big and small......you know, escaping gasses. Plus, it's not the motors that are the problem it's the batteries. Take a standard battery here on earth and put it in sub zero weather and it looses power. One of the things they have in outer space is a recharging system.....solar panels. Also some of their power sources are not made for here on earth. Any e-cars here on earth with an efficient recharging system? Why don't they add an alternator to the system to charge the batteries as the e-car drives? That to me would make sense and improve the e-cars mileage.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> So no one here has really driven a current EV let alone owned one, but you all have something to say.
> 
> Reminds me of threads about certain brands of guitars.
> 
> Continue.


Closest I came was a Tesla a bit more than 2 years ago. Do you drive electric? Anything.


----------



## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Budda said:


> So no one here has really driven a current EV let alone owned one, but you all have something to say.
> 
> Reminds me of threads about certain brands of guitars.
> 
> Continue.


Only for the past 5 plus years. Never will I ever get anything besides electric. I actually hope people keep buying gas cars, its kinda like the frequent fast food buyers.......


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Also, the cost of electricity to charge. It's always going to go up.
Power outages? In '13, our power was out for a week due to an ice storm.
A friend dubbed it the 'year of the homeless squirrels' because of all the tree damage. lol


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Easy big fella..
> 
> You're making assumptions.
> 
> Most of us have likely driven a few electrics. I know I have.


Im not though - I asked who has actually driven one. Lotta golf carts and hybrids, not a lot of EVs responded.



Electraglide said:


> Closest I came was a Tesla a bit more than 2 years ago. Do you drive electric? Anything.


I drive electric machinery at my job every day.

My goal was to find out who commenting has lived experience versus studies and second hand info. I think the answers to my question have satiated that.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Budda said:


> Im not though - I asked who has actually driven one. Lotta golf carts and hybrids, not a lot of EVs responded.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well you said "So no one here has really driven a current EV let alone owned one, but you all have something to say."
Not true,

I've driven a Nissan Leaf and something in Japan by Toyota.

Both were quite zippy but neither would replace a normal ICE car for me. That doesn't mean I'm not keen on electric. If I could afford the Tesla I want, I'd have one.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Safety? High center of gravity = easier flipovers, suspension is bouncy....


I am talking about safety in a crash - the impact on my SUV compared to the same impact in my car.




> Handling? = Different strokes I guess, but SUVs really don’t handle well by my standards


Try a Cherokee Upland or Trailhawk. Mine handles as well as, or better than, my car. I was surprised that it was so car-like.




> People buy what they like and that's not something open for debate, but what I hear from many SUV and truck owners seems like rationalization.


That is your interpretation of it.




> A car handles best and a lower center of gravity is more stable and safer in my opinion.


No, a car does not handle best.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Accept2 said:


> Electric motors dont need air, which is why they were used on the moon. Cold enough for ya? In fact all space travel outside the atmosphere is done with_ electric _ion motors. There is a business reason electric cars are limited (remember the holographic disc being milked as a cd, vcd, dvd, bluray and then finally the holographic disc to maximize profits?) and it has to do with them wanting you to buy the other stuff first. Once everyone starts releasing and competing with their best tech, then you will see the good stuff. 2020 to 2021 we will see about 200kWh batteries and 4 motor vehicles being sold. By 2025, those batteries will be a fraction of the size as they will shift to solid state. It will happen that fast because we dont want to be left behind by the Chinese or Europeans.......



I am talking about their batteries. We've all had gas cars not start on cold mornings because the battery was dead or it was simply too cold for it. Try starting a Tesla (or whatever) in Saskatoon in January.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Also, the cost of electricity to charge. It's always going to go up.
> Power outages? In '13, our power was out for a week due to an ice storm.
> A friend dubbed it the 'year of the homeless squirrels' because of all the tree damage. lol



And during summer heatwaves we get power outages because so many people have their air conditioners fired up. Good luck charging your car then.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

jb welder said:


> For those who insist on trucks and vintage stuff, would you drive this electric?


No. Trucks from that era remind me of drinking too much Molson Ex.

It looks nice and all that but I’d rather have a new F150 with a 5 litre.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

colchar said:


> I am talking about safety in a crash - the impact on my SUV compared to the same impact in my car.
> 
> Good thing, as you're more likely to crash
> 
> ...


yes, yes it does.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Milkman said:


> yes, yes it does.



No it does not. You might _think_ it does, but that does not make it a fact. As I said my Cherokee handles as well as, or better than, my car.

I drove thousands of kilometers in that car and thus far have driven about 2500 kilometers in the Cherokee so I am well positioned to judge them against each other.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

colchar said:


> No it does not. You might _think_ it does, but that does not make it a fact. As I said my Cherokee handles as well as, or better than, my car.
> 
> I drove thousands of kilometers in that car and thus far have driven about 2500 kilometers in the Cherokee so I am well positioned to judge them against each other.


No, you're confused. You may THINK your jeep handles as good as a car but that does not make it a fact.

Please go back and reassess your opinion until it is in alignment with mine.

And try not to be so dang serious.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> Im not though - I asked who has actually driven one. Lotta golf carts and hybrids, not a lot of EVs responded.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I used to drive electric machinery in a couple of my jobs. Not the same as driving an electric car or truck. Electric man lifts are just one step above a pallet jack.....you walk behind a motorized set of lifting arms. Electric fork lifts, either indoors or out doors are just the same as fueled ones.....there again, not a car or truck. The propane and gas powered ones I drove would last more than a shift easy......the electric ones especially the back up for our gas out door Blue Chip would not......that's why it was the back up. The smaller indoor ones might last a bit more than 4 hrs if things got busy. Then they had to be recharged.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


> Jetsons anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmmm, Jane vs Wilma or Betty? To bad Jane. Judy vs Ann Margrock? Judy loses for more than one reason.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Also, the cost of electricity to charge. It's always going to go up.
> Power outages? In '13, our power was out for a week due to an ice storm.
> A friend dubbed it the 'year of the homeless squirrels' because of all the tree damage. lol


So your electric car sits with dead batteries in sub zero weather. How does that affect the batteries? Probably doesn't do them any good.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

colchar said:


> I am talking about their batteries. We've all had gas cars not start on cold mornings because the battery was dead or it was simply too cold for it. Try starting a Tesla (or whatever) in Saskatoon in January.


Try it in Dawson Creek.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> No. Trucks from that era remind me of drinking too much Molson Ex.
> 
> It looks nice and all that but I’d rather have a new F150 with a 5 litre.


You buy the new ones and I'll keep the old F100s on the road. Works for me.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Please go back and reassess your opinion until it is in alignment with mine.



Yes Greta.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Dorian2 said:


> Or do you prefer the Flintstones?


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Wardo said:


> It looks nice and all that but I’d rather have a new F150 with a 5 litre.


just skip anything with the 9 or 10 speed automatic .... lotsa problems with the trannies ( GM / Ford collaboration that flubbed badly )


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

colchar said:


> Yes Greta.


Hmmmm, assuming my gender?

You may like SUVs, but to say they handle as well as a car......maybe you need a new car, LOL.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Also, the cost of electricity to charge. It's always going to go up.
> Power outages? In '13, our power was out for a week due to an ice storm.
> A friend dubbed it the 'year of the homeless squirrels' because of all the tree damage. lol


yeah that was fun - power out for 4 days so I recharged my phone by running my truck .. lol


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> just skip anything with the 9 or 10 speed automatic .... lotsa problems with the trannies ( GM / Ford collaboration that flubbed badly )


yeah no way for ten gears

my 6 speed has been ok but some of the early ones had a rough one two shift

Other thing I dont like is electric steering and stop start tech - id rather pay for gas than replace the starter every two years


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

we usually get power outages for 2 or 3 days ( like when tornadoes blow thru or they shut the power off due to flooding in the area during springtime )
3 generators as backups ... one for the neighbors to borrow and 2 for me (in case 1 breaks down )

electric steering $%^&* if the alt fails and the battery gets low ... same for electric power brake assist.

that starter gets real expensive cause a lot are tucked inside between the motor and the tranny ( special setup ) ... not just drop and replace .


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> I used to drive electric machinery in a couple of my jobs. Not the same as driving an electric car or truck. Electric man lifts are just one step above a pallet jack.....you walk behind a motorized set of lifting arms. Electric fork lifts, either indoors or out doors are just the same as fueled ones.....there again, not a car or truck. The propane and gas powered ones I drove would last more than a shift easy......the electric ones especially the back up for our gas out door Blue Chip would not......that's why it was the back up. The smaller indoor ones might last a bit more than 4 hrs if things got busy. Then they had to be recharged.


Exactly, not the same as an electric car or truck. Different useage as well. Electric warehouse equipment generally has more torque immediately available versus the gas counterpart. We can get 8+ hours on a charge on most of our electric equipment - assuming it's been charged properly. There's also the quick-charge batteries.

My point still stands that one member who's commenting actually drives an EV. That's a lot of people making guesses about things.

I'm all for getting off gasoline power - it's finite.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> Exactly, not the same as an electric car or truck. Different useage as well. Electric warehouse equipment generally has more torque immediately available versus the gas counterpart. We can get 8+ hours on a charge on most of our electric equipment - assuming it's been charged properly. There's also the quick-charge batteries.
> 
> My point still stands that one member who's commenting actually drives an EV. That's a lot of people making guesses about things.
> 
> I'm all for getting off gasoline power - it's finite.


Your question was, "Have you ever driven an electric vehicle of any sort?" Not, who drives an ev. The equipment I used aside from the man lift was not, 'warehouse' equipment. The one big fork lift was outside, in the mud, helping to move lifts of prefinished plywood.....4 or 5 lifts at a time. Also towing loaded boxcars, etc.. The smaller ones were indoor /out door, keeping up with a fast production line, loading boxcars and basically trying to go double shifts. Torque was not needed that much. The job was hard on equipment and people. We didn't get a lot of poweroutages in that area of Vancouver but when we did the electrics were screwed.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Not directly related to the OP, but I thought I'd have a peek at the best rated electrics of 2019. It's just a link I clicked on so keep that in mind, I did no research whatsoever. But reading through it gives me the idea that Kia and Hundai are doing pretty well in some areas. I'm not surprised actually. A buddy has a Kia 4 banger and it's run pretty sweetly for a number of years by now. And don't turn thisinto a NA vs Asia market debate please. No need for it. Thanks

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/best-electric-cars


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

colchar said:


> I am talking about their batteries. We've all had gas cars not start on cold mornings because the battery was dead or it was simply too cold for it. Try starting a Tesla (or whatever) in Saskatoon in January.


The 12V battery in an electric car has to turn on a high voltage system. Much easier than turning over an ICE. Wow, these are easy......


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Milkman said:


> No, you're confused. You may THINK your jeep handles as good as a car but that does not make it a fact.
> Please go back and reassess your opinion until it is in alignment with mine.





colchar said:


> Yes Greta.


guys guys, relax, youre both wrong


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Secret post, dont tell anyone this.........
Really, keep buying gas cars. Even though it will keep the good stuff off the market I benefit much more from people not buying electric. Lets review some math, math is fun!...
2014 get rid of Audi S8, spend $16,000 (after rebate) plus HST on new *custom* ordered Smart Electric. 2019, still worth about $10,000. So depreciation, I win!......
2014 to now buying electricity for car has been almost nothing. House plus car averages about $70 a month. Before car, $65? a month I win!..........
2014 to now maintenance costs are about $400 a year, which includes the tires that I keep shredding. Really I go thru rear tires quickly, glad their cheap even for the good ones. I win!.....
Since driving a cheap electric all that has happened is less stress, less debt, less body weight, more fun, moved into a way bigger house in a neighborhood I shouldnt afford, and yes, keep buying gas. Keep those oil execs rich. You never know I might just get a job there to get in on the scam. Why pay all that cash to breath gas fumes all day (you dont even notice the stink of gas cars until you drive electric); pump gas in negative 30 degree weather; let companies rape your wallet, etc, etc. I am happy you keep this shit going. Its gonna end soon as the momentum points to the good shit hitting the market around 2022 and ending the gas garbage but WTF? I love driving electric, and I hate fast food, keep eating that shit too, its a scam as well.......


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Yep them electric vehicles are so damn good for the environment. Unless you are pluging it in to a windmill it ain't. A lot of electricity is still generated by coal in the USA. Not to mention the problems with disposal of waist from nuclear plants around the world.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I don’t see this as anything to get worked up about; I drive what I want and I can afford to pay for fuel so if electric works for you then great.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Distortion said:


> Yep them electric vehicles are so damn good for the environment. Unless you are pluging it in to a windmill it ain't. A lot of electricity is still generated by coal in the USA. Not to mention the problems with disposal of waist from nuclear plants around the world.


You skipped right over solar.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Budda said:


> You skipped right over solar.


Just what the world needs fields and fields of solar panels to supply increased demand on electricity power . Wind mills ? slaughter more migrating wildlife. It all has a cost.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Distortion said:


> Just what the world needs fields and fields of solar panels to supply increased demand on electricity power . Wind mills ? slaughter more migrating wildlife. It all has a cost.


But the oil fields are cool, right?


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Accept2 said:


> The 12V battery in an electric car has to turn on a high voltage system. Much easier than turning over an ICE. Wow, these are easy......


But they say those batteries lose a lot of their charge when it gets cold. Lose of power to me means lose of range especially when you have to use some of that charge to heat things up. Wow, that was easier. I suppose you could get a "block/battery heater" for them.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> You skipped right over solar.


On a house to house basis solar is damned expensive and not an easy up keep. On a municipal basis it's even more expensive and doesn't do an adequate job. On top of that they are high maintenance and fragile. Wind generators are better but not applicable for a lot of places. Over all fossil fuels for everything is the best right now.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Distortion said:


> Yep them electric vehicles are so damn good for the environment. Unless you are pluging it in to a windmill it ain't. A lot of electricity is still generated by coal in the USA. Not to mention the problems with disposal of waist from nuclear plants around the world.



To say nothing of the materials used in their batteries and the child slave labour used to mine some of them.

The hidden cost of the electric car boom – child labour


But yeah, they're allegedly good for the environment so fuck those kids eh?


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Accept2 said:


> The 12V battery in an electric car has to turn on a high voltage system. Much easier than turning over an ICE. Wow, these are easy......



If you think that cold weather isn't a problem for electric cars, think again:

The trouble with electric vehicles – winter

Tesla, Jaguar and Nissan EVs lose range in freezing temps as polar vortex leaves electric car owners out in the cold

Buying an Electric Car for a Cold Climate? Double Down on Range.

AAA: Cold weather can cut electric car range over 40 percent


Wow, that was easy.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Budda said:


> But the oil fields are cool, right?


Yeah, I'm good with them.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


> reading through it gives me the idea that Kia and Hundai are doing pretty well in some areas. I'm not surprised actually.


I was just thinking yesterday how some electric equivalent of the Hyundai Pony is going to come out and be a real game changer.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

colchar said:


> To say nothing of the materials used in their batteries and the child slave labour used to mine some of them.
> 
> The hidden cost of the electric car boom – child labour
> 
> ...


Not to mention the Lithium.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jb welder said:


> I was just thinking yesterday how some electric equivalent of the Hyundai Pony is going to come out and be a real game changer.


Yup, the Pony really did Excell.
This is a quote from the Globe and Mail.
"the Pony looked like a Honda Civic built in a back alley by an inebriated blacksmith. The body panels were wavy, the paint looked like it had been swabbed on with a mop, and a plastic choke knob protruded from the dash. The tires were skinny, and the suspension was knock-kneed and awkwardly high, giving the Pony the gait of a knee-capped horse." Kinda fits. Not as bad as a Pinto which was sort of the basis of the Mustang II but close.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Electric vehicles are a reality of our future. Just like digital/modeling amps. As much as we may want to resist the reality of it. To some of us, it isn't a future we look forward to. To some of us, it won't happen quickly enough to matter.

And of course, by then utilities will have separated vehicle charging and heavily taxed that electricity to make up for the lack of gasoline tax. Just have a look at how much gasoline is taxed and how much the different levels of govt make from that. Do you really believe any political party can afford to let that kind of revenue disappear?

Also, don't forget to include the significant cost of electricity generation and grid upgrades. We'll be paying for that, too. There isn't a utility in NA (the world actually) that could withstand even 33% electric vehicle adoption without collapsing under the increased load without significant upgrades.

And most places in the world will be (are right now, actually) building coal fired thermal plants to meet the load. Dream all you want about solar and wind. They will never be firm power sources, ever. Tidal takes up too much expensive real estate. We are looking at much, much more hydro (for areas that have the geography to do that), gas/coal thermal and/or nuclear generation, like it or not. You just have to choose your poison, there is no such thing as a free ride here.




colchar said:


> No, a car does not handle best.


Pretty much every race car series on the planet disagrees with that. Considering the 100's of millions F1 teams spend on research every year, I'm sure they'd have figured out SUV's and trucks handle better if they actually did. I think their conclusions are quite obvious here.

Unless you talk about Baja or Paris-Dakar, which aren't actually about handling but rather ground clearance and durability.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Electric vehicles are a reality of our future. Just like digital/modeling amps. As much as we may want to resist the reality of it. To some of us, it isn't a future we look forward to. To some of us, it won't happen quickly enough to matter.
> 
> And of course, by then utilities will have separated vehicle charging and heavily taxed that electricity to make up for the lack of gasoline tax. Just have a look at how much gasoline is taxed and how much the different levels of govt make from that. Do you really believe any political party can afford to let that kind of revenue disappear?
> 
> ...


I find it sort of funny that colchar said that 'his' jeep handled better than 'his' car. Quite possible that it did. And digital/modelling amps are only a part of a small amount of people's future. As far as that goes there will be a large part of the world where electric vehicles just won't fit. Probably won't be charging stations for a lot more than 20 years. I can't see there being a lot of charging stations in most of India for example. One thing I find interesting is this 
"According to registration data, at the end of Q2, 2018, there were 55 Model 3s registered in *Alberta*. So basically in two months time, the Calgary *Tesla* Service Center and store at Chinook Mall managed to move about 28 Model 3s per month (almost one per day).Aug 26, 2018".


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Pretty much every race car series on the planet disagrees with that. Considering the 100's of millions F1 teams spend on research every year, I'm sure they'd have figured out SUV's and trucks handle better if they actually did. I think their conclusions are quite obvious here.



Quite a ridiculous comparison.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

colchar said:


> Quite a ridiculous comparison.


Really?

How so?

Unless you’re dealing with rough terrain a car will generally handle better than an SUV or truck particularly in cornering, but also in term of power to weight ratio (sort of important in my opinion).

That’s not to say SUVs haven’t evolved. They’re significantly better now than ten or twenty years ago, but then again, so are sedans.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

colchar said:


> Quite a ridiculous comparison.


Really? So you don't think the best racecar engineers in the world know anything about handling, but you do? Yea, that's NOT ridiculous at all.

I'm sure you don't understand what this means, but here's some lateral acceleration specs.

Jeep Compass 0.73g
Honda Civic Si 0.95g
Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk ($100,00 US) 0.90g
Honda Civic Type R (fwd, and $35,000 US) 0.99g

You've probably never taken a car to it's handling limits on a racetrack or taken a performance driving course (I've taken two) so tell me how your opinion on how cars handle is relevant in any of this? You like how they ride. Big difference between that and how a car handles at it's limits.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Really? So you don't think the best racecar engineers in the world know anything about handling, but you do? Yea, that's NOT ridiculous at all.


Of course it is a ridiculous comparison. Those cars handle far better than any passenger vehicle, and even other race cars. But passenger vehicles is what we are talking about here. When people start driving F1 cars on the school run, then we can use them as a comparison.[/QUOTE]


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Unless you’re dealing with rough terrain a car will generally handle better than an SUV or truck particularly in cornering, but also in term of power to weight ratio (sort of important in my opinion).



As I've said, my SUV handles as well or better than my sedan. It has a tighter turning radius, handles corners better, and is far more nimble than the car. 

Believe what you like, but my experience driving both tells me that my SUV handles better.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

colchar said:


> As I've said, my SUV handles as well or better than my sedan. It has a tighter turning radius, handles corners better, and is far more nimble than the car.
> 
> Believe what you like, but my experience driving both tells me that my SUV handles better.


Then you may need a better car. Physics is physics. I didn't make that shit up.

Your testimonial is not evidence.

I'm sure there are those who will claim that their Prius has better acceleration than their Mustang.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Then you may need a better car. Physics is physics. I didn't make that shit up.
> 
> Your testimonial is not evidence.
> 
> I'm sure there are those who will claim that their Prius has better acceleration than their Mustang.


thats the funny part to this, pages of arguing but we still have no idea what the control in his experiment is. brilliant stuff


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

vadsy said:


> thats the funny part to this, pages of arguing but we still have no idea what the control in his experiment is. brilliant stuff


Oh I’m really not taking this one seriously.

SUVs have their place and people really seem to like the style. 

But saying that a Jeep handles as good as a decent sedan doesn’t ring true to me.

Sure if your car is a Trabant and your SUV is an Audi or Porsche, but when you’re sitting a couple of feet higher in your SUV than in your car.....


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

A new Jeep might handle better if it’s being compared to a big sedan that’s in desperate need of suspension work.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Budda said:


> But the oil fields are cool, right?


ya im good with them. Its a global atmosphere. Check out China's city smog. Coming our way. The less we put out the more they do. So I ain't going to go broke to satisfy something that will not be fixed. I have done my part driving 4 cylinder cars for 25 years.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

JBFairthorne said:


> A new Jeep might handle better if it’s being compared to a big sedan that’s in desperate need of suspension work.


And a set up F series race car will handle better than that Jeep or the Sedan.......on the track. But too compare the F series to a Jeep or Sedan is, as has been pointed out, ridiculous. As far as the Jeep and Sedan goes, depends on where and when you drive and the Jeep and Sedan. If I had to drive in parts of Edmonton right now I'd say the Jeep would handle better than the Sedan.


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

My infiniti Fx50 handles better than my Maxima. But I have an extra 130 bhp and rear wheel steering now.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> And a set up F series race car will handle better than that Jeep or the Sedan.......on the track. But too compare the F series to a Jeep or Sedan is, as has been pointed out, ridiculous. As far as the Jeep and Sedan goes, depends on where and when you drive and the Jeep and Sedan. If I had to drive in parts of Edmonton right now I'd say the Jeep would handle better than the Sedan.


Yes, if you live in an area with terrible roads, the SUV is a good way to go. If I lived in Toluca or Juarez Mexico, I wouldn’t dream of driving a sedan.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Yes, if you live in an area with terrible roads, the SUV is a good way to go. If I lived in Toluca or Juarez Mexico, I wouldn’t dream of driving a sedan.


Depends what you carry in the sedan I guess. If I was in Juarez or the Juarez Valley I think I'd drive something like this myself and not worry about the handling.








And I guess the roads where you live are the best in Canada.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Depends what you carry in the sedan I guess. If I was in Juarez or the Juarez Valley I think I'd drive something like this myself and not worry about the handling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess they are.

We (my employer) have an armoured Honda Accord with laminated glass (5 layers) bullet proof door panels, run flat tires, et cetera.

Handling is a bit sluggish.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> I guess they are.
> 
> We (my employer) have an armoured Honda Accord with laminated glass (5 layers) bullet proof door panels, run flat tires, et cetera.
> 
> Handling is a bit sluggish.


They need an armored Honda to drive in Brantford? I would have said Thompson Man. maybe. If I had to I'd sooner have a Prius.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> ...drive in parts of Edmonton right now I'd say the Jeep would handle better than the Sedan.


isn't this montreal?


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> They need an armored Honda to drive in Brantford? I would have said Thompson Man. maybe. If I had to I'd sooner have a Prius.


Juarez

I’m there four or five times a year.

I have gigged in Thompson, Manitoba however.

Big assed Ravens, but no gunfire as I recall.


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Milkman said:


> Really?
> 
> How so?
> 
> ...


I would say they are better commuter cars than twenty years ago, but not better SUV. I'd like to see any modern SUV keep pace with our '86s in "utility".


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder if this thing handles better than the new Ford









Aston Martin just unveiled its $189,000 DBX SUV in China. Here's a closer look.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

vadsy said:


> I wonder if this thing handles better than the new Ford
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure where they get SUV from that.

Looks like a borderline crossover to me and closer to the car end of that spectrum.

But whatever you call it, super car territory.

Not exactly your average SUV.

The side view looks more like an SUV.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Not sure where they get SUV from that.
> 
> Looks like a borderline crossover to me and closer to the car end of that spectrum.
> 
> ...


I'm sure it won't beat a 70's Parisienne in anything once the forum guys get at it


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Depends who's driving it.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Wardo said:


> Depends who's driving it.


colchar in the Martin, F1 guy in the Parisienne


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Pontiac


----------



## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> But they say those batteries lose a lot of their charge when it gets cold. Lose of power to me means lose of range especially when you have to use some of that charge to heat things up. Wow, that was easier. I suppose you could get a "block/battery heater" for them.


Ya mean like how gas/diesel loses in cold temps as well..........


----------



## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

colchar said:


> If you think that cold weather isn't a problem for electric cars, think again:
> 
> The trouble with electric vehicles – winter
> 
> ...


Correct. Please keep buying gas. Its actually advantageous to me..........


----------



## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

colchar said:


> As I've said, my SUV handles as well or better than my sedan. It has a tighter turning radius, handles corners better, and is far more nimble than the car.
> 
> Believe what you like, but my experience driving both tells me that my SUV handles better.


Hmmm. I have owned for years a Cayenne S with the active suspension, as well as 944, Audi S6, S8, Fiero, etc. No SUV can handle as good as a car. MV = momentum combine it with centre of gravity, and thats all thats needed. Which racing school did you attend? Straight Line U?........


----------



## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Keep buying gas. Keep buying diesel. Keep buying fast food.........
OBEY. REPRODUCE. CONSUME,.........


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Love it. 

More!!


----------



## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

I really get a kick out of this forum, the last whatever posts have nothing to do with the OP? Lol

This is how I think?

Cool


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Accept2 said:


> Ya mean like how gas/diesel loses in cold temps as well..........


Never had a gas engine lose range once it's started. I doubt that an electric vehicle would do at -30 what my gas vehicles have done.....idle with heat on full and powering a sign board and flashing lights for 6 to eight hours, then drive 50 miles to a motel.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Juarez
> 
> I’m there four or five times a year.
> 
> ...


From what Macleans says it's the most dangerous city in Canada. Canada's worst violent crime problem is in Thompson, Man. - Macleans.ca


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> From what Macleans says it's the most dangerous city in Canada. Canada's worst violent crime problem is in Thompson, Man. - Macleans.ca


Wow, well places change. I was there in the 80s. They did have serious alcohol problems and had to send a van around to pick up drunks or they would freeze to death.

They had a flock of sort of a local mascot they called Thompson Turkeys.

Freaking GIANT ravens.

Not making that up.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Wow, well places change. I was there in the 80s. They did have serious alcohol problems and had to send a van around to pick up drunks or they would freeze to death.
> 
> They had a flock of sort of a local mascot they called Thompson Turkeys.
> 
> ...


They have the same sized Raven's in other places in the north and if they want your food or cat or small dog they take it. 
They still have alcohol and gas sniffing problems there.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

And that is how turning a venerable rwd pony car into an electric SUV can lead to alcoholism and gas huffing.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> But they say those batteries lose a lot of their charge when it gets cold. Lose of power to me means lose of range especially when you have to use some of that charge to heat things up. Wow, that was easier. I suppose you could get a "block/battery heater" for them.


My Dad was in Transportation in the Service and taught us to keep a toque, gloves, a candle and a lighter in the trunk. Along with the normal Tire Iron and jumper cables.


Electraglide said:


> And a set up F series race car will handle better than that Jeep or the Sedan.......on the track. But too compare the F series to a Jeep or Sedan is, as has been pointed out, ridiculous. As far as the Jeep and Sedan goes, depends on where and when you drive and the Jeep and Sedan. If I had to drive in parts of Edmonton right now I'd say the Jeep would handle better than the Sedan.


As does my 4x4 lol


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

That's OK. A few people, not just @Electraglide, have shown they don't actually know what the word 'handling' means, wrt vehicle dynamics. There are objective measurements that indicate good and bad handling. And it has SFA to do with SUV's driving on potholed roads. The truth is out there ......... 



Milkman said:


> And that is how turning a venerable rwd pony car into an electric SUV can lead to alcoholism and gas huffing.


You mean Neil? I don't really think a 69 Lincoln is a great starting point to build an electric car, but I'm also not trying to sell quality sound to a generation who cares less about quality and more about quantity. You gotta pick your audience.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> That's OK. A few people, not just @Electraglide, have shown they don't actually know what the word 'handling' means, wrt vehicle dynamics. There are objective measurements that indicate good and bad handling. And it has SFA to do with SUV's driving on potholed roads. The truth is out there .........


Oh, I know what handling means, on a racetrack, in a stock car or on a bike going well over the speed limit say from Princeton to Hope but how a vehicle handles around town or on the highway is completely different than on a racetrack. No need to measure side forces etc. when you're driving down a straight but bumpy road full of potholes. You don't need much when you're just changing lanes......doesn't matter if you're in a truck or a car, gas or electric. 
@Dorian2......you forgot shovel, sand and tools. TP comes in handy too.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

No, it isn't. Handling has a fixed definition and meaning, with objective measurements (skidpad numbers, lateral g's, slalom speeds) - and different from ride quality or ground clearance. Just because you've chosen to re-interpret the word doesn't mean the rest of the world will adopt your skewed definition in favor of the already-accepted definition by the automotive industry in general.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> No, it isn't. Handling has a fixed definition and meaning, with objective measurements (skidpad numbers, lateral g's, slalom speeds) - and different from ride quality or ground clearance. Just because you've chosen to re-interpret the word doesn't mean the rest of the world will adopt your skewed definition in favor of the already-accepted definition by the automotive industry in general.


Most of the world uses my definition.....not a lot of slalom speeds and lateral g's involved in everyday driving. Start talking about skidpad numbers and you get that blank, 'what the fuck you talking about' stare. They think you're talking about the space program and skiing. They get in a car or truck, drive it for a bit and when someone says, "how does it handle" they say "Not bad but it get's good/bad gas mileage." If you're talking about an electric they'll probably say that it doesn't go too far. BTW on a track or test situation ground clearance and suspension affect the handling of a car and the suspension affects the ride quality. Anyway, you can have your "fixed definition" and all and go drive around a race track.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> That's OK. A few people, not just @Electraglide, have shown they don't actually know what the word 'handling' means, wrt vehicle dynamics. There are objective measurements that indicate good and bad handling. And it has SFA to do with SUV's driving on potholed roads. The truth is out there .........
> 
> 
> 
> You mean Neil? I don't really think a 69 Lincoln is a great starting point to build an electric car, but I'm also not trying to sell quality sound to a generation who cares less about quality and more about quantity. You gotta pick your audience.


didn't this thing catch fire and turn out to be a disaster? yes, yes it did

Neil Young's warehouse fire started in hybrid car


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Oh, I know what handling means, on a racetrack, in a stock car or on a bike going well over the speed limit say from Princeton to Hope but how a vehicle handles around town or on the highway is completely different than on a racetrack. No need to measure side forces etc. when you're driving down a straight but bumpy road full of potholes. You don't need much when you're just changing lanes......doesn't matter if you're in a truck or a car, gas or electric.
> @Dorian2......you forgot shovel, sand and tools. TP comes in handy too.


To put it in terms you can relate to, if you take a corner in an SUV at the same speed I can in a sportscar, your chances of flipping over are MUCH higher than mine.

There are corners everywhere I think but I do see lots of people driving their SUVs and trucks like they have no idea about physics.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

vadsy said:


> didn't this thing catch fire and turn out to be a disaster? yes, yes it did
> 
> Neil Young's warehouse fire started in hybrid car


I like Neil’s writing, but he gets a bit preachy.

I heard a recent interview where he was telling us that using headphones in the studio is a terrible idea.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Milkman said:


> I like Neil’s writing, but he gets a bit preachy.
> 
> I heard a recent interview where he was telling us that using headphones in the studio is a terrible idea.


I think Neil is massively overrated. The music is mostly annoying but I'll agree that some of the writing is great and you can't have a good tune without some proper lyrics. Props for that. That being said Neil is out to lunch on a ton of other stuff.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> To put it in terms you can relate to, if you take a corner in an SUV at the same speed I can in a sportscar, your chances of flipping over are MUCH higher than mine.
> 
> There are corners everywhere I think but I do see lots of people driving their SUVs and trucks like they have no idea about physics.


So; it depends, among other things the degree of the corner, where the corner is and what the road surface is like. Also, what Suv or truck you're driving and how it's set up. And to put it in terms that you might relate to, if you take a corner in your sports car at the same speed I do on a motorcycle you have a better chance of sliding off the road or track than I do. I'd even take one of these but it would have to be a short race.....say Princeton to Manning Park Lodge. 
Specifications | Lightning Motorcycles 
Your sort of right tho, most people who drive anything have no idea about even basic physics. They think it's something from the Big Bang Theory. 
As far as corners everywhere....there's not a lot on 2 from edmonton to calgary or from hope to vancouver or places like that. From princeton to hope or the canyon is a different story.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I gotta give you credit Electra, colchar ran off but your still arguing some solid stuff here. Tell us more about what you've learned from Sheldon and the gang about cornering and how harleys are the number one drift bike in the world


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> So; it depends, among other things the degree of the corner, where the corner is and what the road surface is like. Also, what Suv or truck you're driving and how it's set up. And to put it in terms that you might relate to, if you take a corner in your sports car at the same speed I do on a motorcycle you have a better chance of sliding off the road or track than I do. I'd even take one of these but it would have to be a short race.....say Princeton to Manning Park Lodge.
> Specifications | Lightning Motorcycles
> Your sort of right tho, most people who drive anything have no idea about even basic physics. They think it's something from the Big Bang Theory.
> As far as corners everywhere....there's not a lot on 2 from edmonton to calgary or from hope to vancouver or places like that. From princeton to hope or the canyon is a different story.


You're still ignoring center of gravity.

Motorcycles are less stable on corners than many riders seem to understand. That's why they dump bikes.

All other things being equal, a vehicle with a higher center of gravity will tend to want to flip at a lower speed than one closer to the road.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

been quiet here , but gotta agree with Electra .... bikes will out perform / handle almost every other vehicle on the road / track ...
bikes get a lower center of gravity when you lean them over and drag your knee if you have to in the corners ...
better power to weight ratio ... better stopping power... better handling all around .

the reason people dump the bike in corners is they don't understand counter steering ... you don't steer in the direction you want to go in like a car or tricycle ...
push down and away from you on the handle side you want to go in 
do it wrong and the bike fights you all the way to the ground and then finds the softest spot to land on ( you ).

that or they go too far and the pegs/frame catch and you lift the rear wheel off the ground .... into the weeds.

"All other things being equal, a vehicle with a higher center of gravity will tend to want to flip at a lower speed than one closer to the road." 

absolutely correct!


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Lottsa times I’ve been faster by taking grip out of the car so I could get through some corners better/smoother and that resulted in a faster lap time on that particular track than if the car had been set up for maximum grip. So skid pad number would be less than optimum but the car handled better on the track when the set up is dialed in for that track.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

And then there’s polar moment of inertia which is where you can run out of ability real fast .. lol


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Wardo said:


> So skid pad number would be less than optimum but the car handled better on the track when the set up is dialed in for that track.


changes the apex in the corners ( like the smart ones do ) for the smoother ride... reason why some are faster than others in/on the same equipment configuration.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> So; i





Milkman said:


> You're still ignoring center of gravity.
> 
> Motorcycles are less stable on corners than many riders seem to understand. That's why they dump bikes.
> 
> All other things being equal, a vehicle with a higher center of gravity will tend to want to flip at a lower speed than one closer to the road.


And a narrow vehicle might flip more than a wider one. As far as motorcycles it's usually rider error. Same can be said for cars and trucks. When I first started to ride I "ignored center of gravity" once and put my older brothers BSA into the bushes. I learned 3 lessons that day.....one about center of gravity, one about touching my brother's bike and one from Dad about center of gravity and taking something that doesn't belong to you. Ridden properly a motorcycle in a corner has a low center of gravity. Can't get much lower than running your knee and elbow in the track....or pipes and foot pegs. Leaning also helps control centrifugal force which is not as evident in a car or truck. 
@joat......Counter steering works to a point depending on your speed and the surface/road/track you're on. Get to a certain point and you don't "steer" a bike......you lean it. Steer either way and you flip it. 




On a dirt track at high speed, yes you counter steer but that also has to do with the rear end sliding out from under you......same as with outlaw sprint cars. At very low speeds you turn the bike in the direction you want to go.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> changes the apex in the corners ( like the smart ones do ) for the smoother ride... reason why some are faster than others in/on the same equipment configuration.


corner 2 at mosport has two apexes that aren’t to be messed with unless you’re going slow .. lol


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

yup on all accounts ... but the average weekend warrior hasn't a clue how his bike handles at speed ( or how to make it dance like a ballerina )
... fresh set of 5" pegs at start of race day , 3 7/8" by the end of the day ... mostly done at shannonville and mosport in ontario.

and 2 sojourns into the states at the mid ohio track for the 24hr endurance super bike races . 
a big wow, for team hammer ! and their crew.

dirt is definitely different than street/track


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Wardo said:


> corner 2 at mosport has two apexes that aren’t to be messed with unless you’re going slow .. lol


 see you been out there too....


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> yup on all accounts ... but the average weekend warrior hasn't a clue how his bike handles at speed ( or how to make it dance like a ballerina )
> ... fresh set of 5" pegs at start of race day , 3 7/8" by the end of the day ... mostly done at shannonville and mosport in ontario.
> 
> and 2 sojourns into the states at the mid ohio track for the 24hr endurance super bike races .
> ...


So is sidehack and ice. BTW ice racing in a car is completely different than on a track. Not too sure you could do that for long with an electric.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

question would be ... why would you want to ? 

yeah bike ice racing is dangerous ... opposite of track , ball up if you go down ... those spiked tires go through leathers and elbows real easy . 
( keep your tetanus shots up to date.)


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

MarkM said:


> I really get a kick out of this forum, the last whatever posts have nothing to do with the OP? Lol
> 
> This is how I think?
> 
> Cool


You ain't seen nothing yet .


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

side tangent due to definitions of "handling , performance, etc "

keep on moving , nothing to see here . just old folks rambling on .


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> question would be ... why would you want to ?
> 
> yeah bike ice racing is dangerous ... opposite of track , ball up if you go down ... those spiked tires go through leathers and elbows real easy .
> ( keep your tetanus shots up to date.)


The answer is, why not. I have some interesting scars on my leg from spikes but I don't think it's anymore dangerous than any other type of racing and less dangerous than some. Hillclimbing for instance.
Getting back to electric vehicles, of any sort, this is concerning.
Electric car batteries can catch fire days after an accident
Not so much the catching on fire in certain instances, any vehicle will do that, but because of some of the reasons they catch on fire and how it's fought. I've seen what happens when hover board batteries catch on fire so cars must be worse.
edit.
Tesla under investigation on claim it throttled batteries to hide fire risk


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

holland? has a procedure for electric vehicles on fire ... put the fire out , then dunk the whole vehicle in a tank of water for a week .


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Accept2 said:


> Keep buying gas. Keep buying diesel. Keep buying fast food.........
> OBEY. REPRODUCE. CONSUME,.........


Sounds like a good idea......well maybe not the reproduce part now, just go thru the motions and hope you don't reproduce. Fast food? Pizza sounds good for supper tonight. You can just keep on driving your electric car and heating your house with electricity. See you next power outage.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> holland? has a procedure for electric vehicles on fire ... put the fire out , then dunk the whole vehicle in a tank of water for a week .


Fuel car fire you can piss on it if you have too......or pour starbucks or timmies on it. Most places just let the electric car burn or drown it. Seems foam etc. don't work that good.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

that's the general consensus these days ... battery packs can reignite over and over .

we seem to get ice storms every couple of years out this way ... knocks out the power grid for a week in some places .... 
that equates to 2 trips to town before the car batteries are depleted .

my 8500 watt generator unit may be able to recharge a car , but would have to run for hours .

my diesel vehicle starts at -40C with no problems , has a range of 1000km (nearest full service truck stop is 27km away)


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> ... you can piss on it if you have too......


that’s also a good way to check if the alternator is working


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

I always kept at least one 25 l Jerry can around at all times.......for snow blower, lawn mowers etc. and for the cars, trucks and bikes just in case. In a power outage the closest fuel pumps might not work. When it got really cold I would keep an extra 12V battery in the house......just in case. Had a solar trickle charger with that but I don't think that would work for an electric car. You'd need a decent panel grid and a good inverter for that. Not too sure how much power heaters etc. draw on electric car but it can't be good for the mileage or how long the car will run before the batteries die. 
BTW I watched a video of the skidpad at Shannonville (looks like a more interesting track than Mossport). They do that at the Stampede grounds some times and at the Westerner. Yawn. So the car can slide sideways 50 or 60 feet. Never seen an electric car on any of the skid pads around here. 
So let's see......
expensive as compared to a lot of other cars
limited in range
susceptible to catching on fire just for the hell of it
limited as to where the can go. 
limited as to where you can get them worked on.
I'll pass.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> that’s also a good way to check if the alternator is working


Yup, same with the dist., plugs and coil. That's when you get someone else to do it.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> So let's see......
> expensive as compared to a lot of other cars
> limited in range
> susceptible to catching on fire just for the hell of it
> ...


oh man, thanks for doing the research. I think theyre going to cease production on these overpriced deathtraps tomorrow morning. 

how do you feel about steam? hovercrafts? steam powered hovercrafts?


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Down is up and up is down when it comes to the green scam.


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Electraglide said:


> I always kept at least one 25 l Jerry can around at all times.......for snow blower, lawn mowers etc. and for the cars, trucks and bikes just in case. In a power outage the closest fuel pumps might not work. When it got really cold I would keep an extra 12V battery in the house......just in case. Had a solar trickle charger with that but I don't think that would work for an electric car. You'd need a decent panel grid and a good inverter for that. Not too sure how much power heaters etc. draw on electric car but it can't be good for the mileage or how long the car will run before the batteries die.
> BTW I watched a video of the skidpad at Shannonville (looks like a more interesting track than Mossport). They do that at the Stampede grounds some times and at the Westerner. Yawn. So the car can slide sideways 50 or 60 feet. Never seen an electric car on any of the skid pads around here.
> So let's see......
> expensive as compared to a lot of other cars
> ...


I've been toe to toe with a Tesla in a slalom. Those things are deceptively nimble, and outrageously quick


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

This thread is down to what, 4 people? Who can be the last person standing left arguing with themselves?


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

LanceT said:


> This thread is down to what, 4 people? Who can be the last person standing left arguing with themselves?


Is it arguing if everyone agrees? How about if they have people on ignore?


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

cboutilier said:


> I've been toe to toe with a Tesla in a slalom. Those things are deceptively nimble, and outrageously quick


The last time I slalomed and it wasn't on gravel was doing one of the runs on Silver Star in 1982 when I was on my coffee break. Kinda fun watching one of those go fasts go sideways and the pushing them out of the ditch. 98% handle like crap on gravel.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

LanceT said:


> This thread is down to what, 4 people? Who can be the last person standing left arguing with themselves?


I can start a fight in an empty house so that'll probably be me .. lol


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> Down is up and up is down when it comes to the green scam.


Put up a green screen and you can project what ever you want on it and people will believe.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

LanceT said:


> This thread is down to what, 4 people? Who can be the last person standing left arguing with themselves?


If you argue with yourself you know you're going to win.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

everyone forgets the cost of replacing / recycling the spent batteries every 4-5 years ...
they may still work after that long , but the range is drastically reduced .... basically the same batteries used in laptops, just more of them.

how much "battery" material is there in the earth ? a very limited supply compared to oil ...
and the destruction necessary to extract it ... process it .... where does the energy needed come from ?
these are also toxic materials to work with 
does china get to ship the toxic waste material to the country where the electric car is sent to?

"thank you for buying your electric vehicle, in the trunk you will find 1 ton of toxic material that you must find some way of disposal for it, we suggest in your back yard"

"Green Power Forever"


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> If you argue with yourself you know you're going to win.


Damn right - gotta have some luck sometime.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> If you argue with yourself you know you're going to win.


last time I argued with myself , I lost . 
( the other guy knew what I was going to say before I said it)


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> ... how much "battery" material is there in the earth ? a very limited supply compared to oil ...


And I'm guessing that the places that have that stuff don't like us very much so up goes the price when the time is right.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> last time I argued with myself , I lost .
> ( the other guy knew what I was going to say before I said it)


Yeah, it helps if you have a few guests living in the attic that way there's a surprise every 5 minutes.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> last time I argued with myself , I lost .
> ( the other guy knew what I was going to say before I said it)


Yeah, it helps if you have a few guests living in the attic that way there's a cerebral surprise every 5 minutes.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

biggest reserve is in chile south america in a dry lake bed in the upper mountains ... very hard to reach and mine.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> And I'm guessing that the places that have that stuff don't like us very much so up goes the price when the time is right.


I think Canada is one of the suppliers of Cobalt and Lithium. Nickel we got. Whether quebec actually likes the rest of Canada is up for grabs. Maybe we should build our own batteries.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

cobalt we got lots of ... lithium ? nope 
except for south america andes mountains , australia and china ( and a smattering in the US)


building batteries of any kind is an environmental disaster .


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

I have a rusty ole gas-sucking Caravan right now, but I'd be glad to find the most earth-friendly wheels that can carry a stage piano and PA with or without passengers.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

wish granted , you have it already .


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

oldjoat said:


> building batteries of any kind is an environmental disaster


But throwing them out is ok right?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> cobalt we got lots of ... lithium ? nope
> except for south america andes mountains , australia and china ( and a smattering in the US)
> 
> 
> building batteries of any kind is an environmental disaster .


Don't they still mine lithium in quebec. Nemaska Lithium and isn't zimbabwa a large producer producer?


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

quebec shut down in 66 ( very small deposit )

quebec no longer mines natural resources of any kind ( it would reduce their transfer payments and they would have to actually work for a living )


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

LanceT said:


> But throwing them out is ok right?


 where did I say that ?

recycling and rebuilding batteries use the same process .... toxic products used and need disposing of.
no free ride .


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

oldjoat said:


> where did I say that ?
> 
> recycling and rebuilding batteries use the same process .... toxic products used and need disposing of.
> no free ride .


I was just asking.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

My Grandfather was a Coal Miner up in the Crowsnest Pass before he joined the Army when he turned 17. His Father, my Great Grandfather, was killed in a Mining accident in Coleman at the age of 32. Wonder how they'd react to these new fangled discussions on Electric cars and fossil fuels? And everything else lol. They were good tunnelers in the Wars.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> my diesel vehicle starts at -40C with no problems


Well, the experts here have said that your battery won't work at -40C, so you will have to take that up with them.  Pull start?
And at that temp. you need to plug in a block heater (or oil pan heater TDI Jetta  ) so if the power is out I guess you can light up a bucket of kerosene under it like my grandpappy did with the tractor.
Sounds like you're in for some good times.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Put up a green screen and you can project what ever you want on it and people will believe.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

jb welder said:


> I guess you can light up a bucket of kerosene under it like my grandpappy did with the tractor.


yup and a tarp over it to keep the heat in .... propane space heaters work well too and are easier to carry/setup .


when you know you'll lose 50% of the battery power at 0C, you simply double the size of the battery you put in the vehicle 
( that equates to a 1000 amp cold cranking battery ... as I said , starts at -40C , no problem )
cycle the glow plugs twice and hit the key .... varoom , clack, clack, clack.
... but I'll agree, a heater makes things start and run a lot easier 

besides , below -40C , who would want to go out anyway ? 

idling @ 900 it uses 1 litre per hour


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> .... varoom , clack, clack, clack


... lol


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

something new from Tesla, should put everyone in a good mood


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I hear it's a better pitcher than catcher.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

ridiculous. they really should have tested it before the unveiling.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

vadsy said:


> something new from Tesla, should put everyone in a good mood


Finally something that makes an Aztec look sexy.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> Finally something that makes an Aztec look sexy.


I don't disagree. and funny you should say Aztec..


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

vadsy said:


> I don't disagree. and funny you should say Aztec..


Seriously?

I hope the camp stove is electric


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> Seriously?


I dunno if they are but I hear it comes with an ATV, I think its electric. Ramp comes out, truck suspension lowers, spaceships hover....


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

oldjoat said:


> yup and a tarp over it to keep the heat in .... propane space heaters work well too and are easier to carry/setup .
> 
> 
> when you know you'll lose 50% of the battery power at 0C, you simply double the size of the battery you put in the vehicle
> ...


I had to heat the pan with an oxy-acec torch on my old ISM 11L Cummins one morning to get it to start. Coldest day of the decade in Halifax


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

vadsy said:


> I dunno if they are but I hear it comes with an ATV, I think its electric. Ramp comes out, truck suspension lowers, spaceships hover....


I'll admit that it's kinda cool. I just can't picture it in my driveway - and I'm already driving one of the ugliest cars ever made.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> I'll admit that it's kinda cool. I just can't picture it in my driveway - and I'm already driving one of the ugliest cars ever made.
> 
> View attachment 280812


Wow! Finally a car that doesn't look like all the others.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

vadsy said:


> I dunno if they are but I hear it comes with an ATV, I think its electric. Ramp comes out, truck suspension lowers, spaceships hover....


Leaving aside the gas or electric diatribe it's difficult to see that as any kind of creative visual design; probably get a D in a first year industrial design assignment at some coconut college.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Wardo said:


> Leaving aside the gas or electric diatribe it's difficult to see that as any kind of creative visual design; probably get a D in a first year industrial design assignment at some coconut college.


Oh, it’s pretty terrible


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

But how well does it fly?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

jb welder said:


> But how well does it fly?


maybe Elon is planning a hovercraft feature, it ain’t flight but it be stupid fun


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> I'll admit that it's kinda cool. I just can't picture it in my driveway - and I'm already driving one of the ugliest cars ever made.
> 
> View attachment 280812


You drive one of these?


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)




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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)




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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> I hear it's a better pitcher than catcher.


I take it this is a truck? With what, a 4' box that you can maybe carry a small quad in? No good for carrying 2x4s or sheets of drywall or anything longer than 4'. Nice stickons on the windows BTW.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)




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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> I take it this is a truck? With what, a 4' box that you can maybe carry a small quad in? No good for carrying 2x4s or sheets of drywall or anything longer than 4'. Nice stickons on the windows BTW.


those aren’t stickons, BTW

someone may have repeat this, gramps is hard of hearing. 

I don’t know just how much testing they have actually done to verify these numbers. but..,

Now here are some of the Cybertruck’s vital stats:


There will be 3 types of models: single-motor RWD, dual-motor AWD, and tri-motor AWD


A 6.5-foot long bed


Payload: 3,500 lbs


Towing capacity: up to 14,000 lbs

On-road performance was quite impressive, at least for the tri-motor AWD version:


0-60 seconds - 2.9 seconds


1/4 mile 10.8.s

Tesla estimates the following ranges per full charge for each of the three models:


250 mi (single-motor RWD)


300 mi (dual-motor AWD)


500 mi (tri-motor AWD)


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

and you believe any of those numbers after they threw rocks at the "shatter proof windows" .....


anyone need a slightly used bridge? ... or water front property in Florida ?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> and you believe any of those numbers after they threw rocks at the "shatter proof windows" .....
> 
> 
> anyone need a slightly used bridge? ... or water front property in Florida ?


not really believe, I did add a small disclaimer to that post. but they do have a proven track record with similar electric vehicles.

hey man, I'm just here to try and keep the bickering on track


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

jb welder said:


> But how well does it fly?


Black Friday Sale ?


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

vadsy said:


> not really believe, I did add a small disclaimer to that post. but they do have a proven track record with similar electric vehicles.
> 
> hey man, I'm just here to try and keep the bickering on track


They also do have a bit of a track record with offering things and not being able to deliver, like the Model 3. If they were in the MI business, they might be promoting the Fractal FM3 or Kemper's editor software. 

Good on 'em to try something different. I would say 75% of the trucks sold now aren't really being used for what trucks are best at, they are status symbols and penis enlargers. So this fits right in with that market. And, ultimately, the market will decide.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> They also do have a bit of a track record with offering things and not being able to deliver, like the Model 3. If they were in the MI business, they might be promoting the Fractal FM3 or Kemper's editor software.
> 
> Good on 'em to try something different. I would say 75% of the trucks sold now aren't really being used for what trucks are best at, they are status symbols and penis enlargers. So this fits right in with that market. And, ultimately, the market will decide.


even if they are a little late on delivery they don't waste any time catching up


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Hopefully the same thing happens with the FM3 and the KPA editor. Shouldn't be a problem for the editor (it's only software) although Kemper's server may be choked for a day or two - at least going by the whiny threads on some other sites.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jb welder said:


> But how well does it fly?


Not very good without wings.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> Not very good without wings.


prevents theft


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> They also do have a bit of a track record with offering things and not being able to deliver, like the Model 3. If they were in the MI business, they might be promoting the Fractal FM3 or Kemper's editor software.
> 
> Good on 'em to try something different. I would say 75% of the trucks sold now aren't really being used for what trucks are best at, they are status symbols and penis enlargers. So this fits right in with that market. And, ultimately, the market will decide.


After they put balls on them and go trolling.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> After they put balls on them and go trolling.


who's trolling?

today I put my winter tires on. a set of triple wheel 12 tires on the back and a set of dualies on the front, turning is a bit of a challenge but I enjoy the freedom of running in snowshoes across the snowy tundra


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

laristotle said:


>


Missing truck testicles, Fuck Trudeau sticker and the look of crippling debt


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

This thread reminds me why I'm not into cars. I hope Gibson starts making them! Then we'll be in for a treat.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Dorian2 said:


> This thread reminds me why I'm not into cars. I hope Gibson starts making them! Then we'll be in for a treat.


Every hobby group has theirs


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)




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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


> This thread reminds me why I'm not into cars. I hope Gibson starts making them! Then we'll be in for a treat.


Ya, but they'd cost $230,000 and every time someone bumps into one the front end would snap off.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

allthumbs56 said:


> Finally something that makes an Aztec look sexy.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

If I were cynical I'd say there's no way they didn't test those windows and they got way more press out of this than if the windows had held up. 
Even humanizes Elron somewhat with all that talk about him really being advanced AI and all that.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


>


I hope it runs and lasts better than Orange County crap.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Elon Musk: About 150,000 orders thus far for Tesla Cybertruck

_“146k Cybertruck orders so far, with 42% choosing dual, 41% tri & 17% single motor,” Musk said in a tweet, adding separately that the orders were achieved without any advertising or paid endorsements.

With a starting price of $39,900, the Cybertruck’s angular body in gun-metal gray resembles an armored vehicle. Tesla plans to start manufacturing the truck around late 2021._


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

This one was funny. Especially the picture choice. 

ZUBY: on Twitter


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