# L&M Ottawa Oct10-09



## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

just a quick story...

i was in looking at guitars and amp...would love to get a new amp...so i'm testing out a Orange AD30R, single channel 2x12 combo...this guy is watching me...older, about 50 or so...i put the guitar back up and start to look for a another amp to try out...he starts asking me some questions...says he's getting back into playing...and since no one at L&M really seemed to be helping anyone he thought he'd ask me...he had a friend with him, but he played acoustic and didn't really know a lot about the electric side...

so i took him for a walk around the store, talked about different amps...told him that the best advice i could give him was to look around, play lots and check out reviews...then he tells me (he's the luckiest guy on the planet) he plans on buying that day...new amp and a new guitar...i showed him a few amps to try out, and said i had to be on my way...

so...hopefully, although L&M didn't help this guy (or me for that matter, didn't even ask if i needed help, if i liked the amp, not even if i enjoyed breathing) i hope this guy played a couple and liked what he saw...

i'm sure any of us could gripe about L&M but i'm also sure that any of us would've done the same that i did...

so i hope that guy had a great thanksgiving...and enjoys his new toys!


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## bscott (Mar 3, 2008)

L&M should give you a commission on that sale!!!!


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

with no experience that makes it hard to make an informed choice. i hope he waited until the right gear _found him_


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

The sales people at L&M Ottawa always seem to be in their own little world behind the counter.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I think the "proper" design of a musical sales outlet is an interesting challenge. How *do* you design the physical layout of a store such that it mimics the sense of choice that an on-line catalogue experience provides, without simply feeling like a depersonalized 3-d version of a catalogue? How do you get sales staff to interact productively with customers, without pestering them, and without encouraging sales staff to sit behind the counter and just shoot the breeze with each other?

I'm not praising or blaming anyone here, merely noting that the challenge of making the gear-shopping experience everything YOU, as customer, need it to be, is somethng one needs to step back and think about. Particularly in light of the on-line alternative, music-store owners and managers need to think about how they wish to position themselves relative to on-line shopping, and how they would achieve that positioning in terms of store layout and display, staff training, website-storeplace integration, staff-customer interaction, and equipment sampling/testing.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I think music stores, the same as any store should be run like this.

1) Acknowledge the customers presence
2) Ask if they need any assistance
3) Leave them alone if they want to browse
4) Let them know if they have any questions that you would be happy to try and answer them.

Thats about all anyone would expect and it's not hard to do at all.


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## scottomy (Sep 20, 2006)

I can't comment on the store/chain as we don't have L&M in Quebec, but it does sound like the similar service to a big store we do have. It's amazing that they can sell enough to stay in business...but I guess they do.

Have you been to the Guitar Center chain in the states? It's hard to walk around without them trying to get something into your hands and let the GAS work itself out...now that's service! Check one out if you get the chance.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

The L&M in Burlington probably loves me. I've spent about $20,000 in the past year and a half and have requested virtually no assistance other than cash me out.
I do all my own research. They basically provide me with all the equipment choices and in pretty much all cases allow me to take it home to demo as well.
There isn't much a salesmen can tell me about the product after I've read up on all the specs, all the reviews, taken it home to try and in some cases taken it to a gig for a night.
I do some sort of research on just about anything I buy over $100. If you know nothing about a product you are considering buying, then trusting a salesguy for accurate info isn't being much better off.
Some guy will complain a sales guy didn't help them then complain about all the bullshit a sales guy feeds them when they do help.


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## JohnyO (May 31, 2009)

The worst is when they don't help you, or ask if they can help you, and all of the nice guitars on the wall are a good 12' off the ground so you can't reach them. This is one of the reasons I like the L&M in Scarborough. All of the guitars are within reach with the exception of the few behind the counter.


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

i can agree with all of the above...they should at LEAST acknowledge you and ask IF you want help...and reinterate you are just a question away...

i myself am more like guitarman2...i'll look stuff up, read up, go try out, if i like i continue reading about, if i don't i start again...and read and try until i'm happy...i'd rather get myself to the point of happiness than be hand led to something i won't like but is forced...

as for the guy...i didn't force anything on him...i showed him the amps they carried, explained some pro's and con's...and told him to try them...playing them is the only way to know for sure...they don't have little mouths whispering sweet nothings to try to get us to take them home...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I think the single biggest ingredient often missing in a music equipment store is perspective, and being able to take the big picture into account in assessing and assisting the customer's needs. In other words, "guidance", as opposed to mere assistance. Probably the closest you'll get to it is usually "That's a good starter guitar, and when they have learned enough they'll be ready to graduate up to something like this <points to PRS or Standard Strat>".


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## zjq426 (Aug 23, 2009)

L&M people are not eager to sell their stuff, because they own a big shop and people are always like to check them out once a while. Good thing about them is they seldom refuse anyone for trying something. They carry more high-end stuff than Steves music, but some are at least 10% more expensive than Steves...but you cant hate them for they have a fairly better return policy.

All in all I just hope one day i will be rich enough to buy at Lauzon's:wave:


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I wonder if anyone from L&M, Ottawa has read this thread yet?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I strongly doubt it. I am constantly amazed at how little interest and knowledge there seems to be among music store staff about on-line forums, even when those forums could make their jobs easier and more effective. I'm not sure why or how it happens. Perhaps they are too busy gigging at night to waste time surfing like we do. Perhaps they just get used to deriving their technical knowledge from brochures. Whatever it is, it's a pity it weren't otherwise.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

The original post reminds me of when I was in Music Pro in barrie in august - I noticed a guy talking about amps, and eyeballing an Orange. Told him I overheard him talking about the amps, asked him what he had, what he was going for, what he wanted, and his price range. I told him flat out what he would get for his 5150 halfstack, and what the cost of that lovely orange rockerverb 50 would be if he bought a used one instead of paying the floor price. We tried out the orange halfstack (nice amp - better be, for $3500 or so for the rig), and a marshall JVM combo. Between myself, the possible buyer and his drummer/friend (who can also play guitar), we agreed the Orange sounded better. I suggested to him to look around on classifieds sections, and to try out more stuff. I told him that buying used is nice when you know what to look for, and what a fair price is - he knows how to play, but isn't so rig-savvy. I told him about boosting, and how less gain is more, and how it's a good idea to use lots of mids live. He wasn't a dumb guy by any means, just didn't know much about gear. I probably could have sold him that Orange head pretty damn fast though, if I wanted.

I laughed when he asked me if I worked there, and I said "nope - I just happen to know a bit from spending too much time online."

it's always nice to help out a fellow musician.


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## stodge (Sep 4, 2009)

I think the Ottawa L&M have so many school kids they don't bother leaving their front counter to talk to people unless you approach them. I decided not to buy from there because I would go in on my lunch hour to try guitars but there were always school kids, none of whom could actually play, but they were always plugged in. I got the impression one of the kids was somehow related to someone involved with the store but it put me off - one lost sale.


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## KujaSE (Jul 30, 2006)

*Re:*

Haha, this reminds me of a time I went to Long & McQuade in Toronto, the flagship store on Bloor.

I was trying out guitars while the staff behind the counter were hanging out not doing much. A woman approached me and asked where she should look for an entry level guitar and amp as a birthday present for her son. Rather than pointing her in a direction, I proceeded to ask her what kind of music he liked, what his favorite bands were, who his favorite players were (if she knew) and what her budget was.

We spent about half an hour walking around as I went on to explain the benefits of certain brands of guitars and amps. Turns out he likes rock music, likes heavy metal from time to time, but likes Jack Johnson and Sublime for mellow stuff.

Eventually, she bought a Fender MIM Fat Strat (covered all her bases with the humbucker for chunky rock tones and metal, middle and neck single coils for acoustic-ish sounds and mellow cleans) and a Line 6 Spider 2 1x12 for a bunch of "okay" tones for absolutely everything. Really great little starter package.

I stuck around for a little while longer as the clerk rung her up, asked if she had been helped by anyone, and she pointed me out, went on to praise that I had been one of the best salesman she's ever dealt with and she'll be back to them solely because of me.

The clerk laughed and told her I didn't work there, had no real excuse for why none of the real employees were helping her. I had a fun time nonetheless.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Nice anecdote. I often wonder how long it takes for any employee in either the retail or public sector to lose their desire or motivation to be of assistance. I'm sure no one hires an employee who, from the get-go, looks like they'd rather let you starve than help you. But if they all start out as helpful, how is that they eventually become neglectful and occasionally disdainful? When did they stop caring, and why?

When I used to teach university, I would provide copious comments on people's termpapers, since I knew exactly how frustrating it was, as a student, to get a paper back with a B in the corner and no other comment to let me know whatI had done right and wrong. As dedicated as I was to providing top quality service, inevitably, come June, there would still be a box of papers to pick up outside my door with all those comments I had spent countless hours on,that would never be seen by anyone but me.

I mention this because something, somewhere along the way undermines the service orientation of sales staff. As was hinted at by earlier posts, the "No thanks I'm just looking" or "me and my friends are just killing time while we're skipping class" crowd doesn't exactly build up one's enthusiasm as a helpful salesperson.


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

I worked in retail for some time before I got my shit together... I do know that it's quite the grind, going in day after day and making next to nothing for pay. In a guitar store, of course, a lot of them are likely failed/struggling musicians too and they hadn't planned their rock n' roll careers panning out the way that they did. I imagine that a very low percentage of the people who come through the door have much interest in buying as well. That would get frustrating, but such is retail, I guess. I feel for these guys & girls. But of course, on the other hand they do work at a store and so they represent the company. 

We've all been in guitar stores and been annoyed by the kids playing _Enter Sandman_ out of tune, a little too loud for a little too long. We've all heard the pop n' slap bass player who comes in every Saturday to show off his bass playing acrobatics. And then there's the volume wars between the two... Imagine dealing with that _every_ day!

I've had good experience with L&M Ottawa. I deal with the big guy with the beard (Mark?) he's always super helpful if you just ask for it. I'm fine with that arrangement.


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2009)

Greenbacker said:


> I've had good experience with L&M Ottawa. I deal with the big guy with the beard (Mark?) he's always super helpful if you just ask for it. I'm fine with that arrangement.


He's been super helpful with me as well. And the 3 or so people at the rental desk I've dealt with there have been to notch.

My only gripe is where it's located. That store is a vicious drive from Kanata.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

iaresee said:


> He's been super helpful with me as well. And the 3 or so people at the rental desk I've dealt with there have been to notch.
> 
> My only gripe is where it's located. That store is a vicious drive from Kanata.


Agreed! I wish they'd swap L&M with Scotiabank Place! Ottawa Sens? Who the hell cares ! :smile:


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2009)

bagpipe said:


> Agreed! I wish they'd swap L&M with Scotiabank Place! Ottawa Sens? Who the hell cares ! :smile:


Hell yea! That'd be a great trade!


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## Schectertastic (Jul 12, 2010)

JohnyO said:


> The worst is when they don't help you, or ask if they can help you, and all of the nice guitars on the wall are a good 12' off the ground so you can't reach them. This is one of the reasons I like the L&M in Scarborough. All of the guitars are within reach with the exception of the few behind the counter.


Maybe sometimes it's to stop people with giant belt buckles or big zippered jackets from rashing the hell out of that $3000 guitar...might not be you but just saying...sometimes people don't think or remember the clothes they chose to wear to go guitar testing....err ahem sorry..."shopping"


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

holy thread bump


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