# Anxiety (panic attacks)



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Does anyone besides me suffer from panic attacks/anxiety attacks?
We were coming home from the cottage tonight and there was a back log on the highway! It took for a hour to move 3 blocks. I started to feel claustrophobic and the panic reared it's ugly head and it reverted into a full blown panic attack. I had my hubby open the windows. I had to take my seat belt off. I had to get out of the truck. I wanted to walk the highway on the side of the shoulder and I was all set to do it by myself. I was desperate to get out of the truck. The fear that is created in your own mind is overwhelming. As soon as we got home at 11:30 I grabbed my phone and have walked around the block 3 times. I am on medication for it but sometimes there so out of control nothing helps. To the hospital for a shot of valium!


I have been on a drug called Clonazepam before which helps immensely but my doctor doesn't like giving it to me. It's a narcotic! It works amazingly well. I haven't really had a bad one like this for a while. I am supposed to be having a girls weekend at the cottage but I have to get something from my doctor. Even just the thought that this could happen is making me leery of going away. Some people don't understand what happens when people have a panic attack and just think we're crazy. The furthest thing from the truth though. 

You are actually in a living nightmare!! Hell on earth! An attack last for 20-30 mins but tonight it was over and hour! 

Hubby is compassionate to a certain degree. He got angry though when I took off my belt and was ready to walk on the highway to see what the holdup was.


----------



## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Just a shot in the dark but being a diabetic I can tell you that low blood sugar can feel very much like an anxiety attack - shakes, sweats, disorientation, fuzzy or illogical thinking and an unshakable feeling of fear, panic and dread. If it is low blood sugar, a glass of juice, a chocolate bar, a cookie, etc. should make the symptoms subside in a couple of minutes. Many drugs, including narcotics can make blood sugar levels drop dramatically, if even only in some situations. Just something you might consider that a doctor may overlook.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I suffered from them for about a two year period. They were stress related and not brought on by any specific event, came on random. Ended up in the hospital three times with symptoms of a heart attack. They were brutal I can tell you that. Absolutely nothing I did could make them stop, not on my own. They would last up to 3-4 hours sometimes. I tried several prescription drugs and at first they all screwed me up one way or the other until I tried Paxil. Three days on that and I was cured. Took those for well over a year and then quit the job that was causing me the stress to begin with. Three weeks after I quit I stopped taking the Paxil, have never had a problem since. That was almost 8 years ago. So my advice is try to find out the source of the stress and eliminate it, if possible.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

bluzfish said:


> Just a shot in the dark but being a diabetic I can tell you that low blood sugar can feel very much like an anxiety attack - shakes, sweats, disorientation, fuzzy or illogical thinking and an unshakable feeling of fear and dread. If it is low blood sugar, a glass of juice, a chocolate bar, a cookie, etc. should make the symptoms subside in a couple of minutes. Many drugs, including narcotics can make blood sugar levels drop dramatically, if even only in some situations. Just something you might consider that a doctor may overlook.


no it's not low blood sugar. I have a lot of baggage from an extremely horrifying event in my life. I will spare you the details. I have sought professional help for this. I even have trouble sometimes having a shower in an enclosed shower stall. Once the panic has started it just gets worse until I am crying and I can't fight it I fly. I couldn't even sit still long enough to play my guitar. I thought it would help but I just had to escape! At that point I get sucked into a vortex of fear so bad that it's fight or flight!


----------



## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

I get what you might call baby attacks they usually occur at month end when I have to do the book keeping accounting stuff, one alprazolam and I'm good for 12 hrs. Mine are small but they still screw up you day. I hope you can find a lasting solution.


----------



## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Yeah, that doesn't sound like low blood sugar. Scott's experience sounds more like yours.


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

Like Scott, I used to get them and checked myself in a couple of times. Been a number of years since I had it that bad, and never have been on meds for it. I still get stressed out in crowds, so I avoid the mall when it's busy and am uncomfortable as hell going to a concert or sporting event...but it doesn't put me into full blown panic.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Yes, you are not alone. I was diagnosed, incorrectly, with either a brain tumour or Epilepsy about 10 years ago. It put me into a tailspin and the result was panic attacks triggered by any situation where I felt even slightly claustrophobic. The drug of choice at the time was clonazapam. I was on it for about 6 months and while it worked it turned me into someone my wife no longer recognized. It essentially flat lines your emotions. A really nasty drug and difficult to get off if you've been on it for any length of time. My father passed away while I was on it and it almost didn't even register. It convinced me to get off it. I now use Lorazapam but very sparingly, usually only before a longish flight. On my recent trip to the UK I was fine and didn't need it, so I'm finally coming out of the panic situations. Haven't had one in a couple of years actually.

In the early years I used to force myself into situations that might induce panic, flying, elevators, meetings in a crowded room, stupid stuff really. To this day I try to get aisle seats for movies or shows, just in case 

Talk to your doctor and see if he can recommend a different drug. I'd also suggest talking to someone about the panic to see what you can possibly do to reduce the occurrence, or eliminate it completely. I was able to see a shrink through my work place and only needed one meeting, he just confirmed I was already doing the right things to try and get over it.

Good luck, I know it is the worst feeling in the world.


----------



## Steve_F (Feb 15, 2008)

I have had 2 in my life, both related from stress. They are horrifying, no doubt. Both times I was pretty close to calling an ambulance. I made some very necessary changes in my life and haven't had another one since. Last time was 8 years ago.

I understand that some people get them seemingly at random and that it isn't just being stressed out. I feel for you if this is the case. I personally never want to have that feeling again.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I just get panic attacks from being in a confined space.

I usually freak out when I can't turn my head because my facemask jams between rafters. I've noticed it only happens when temperatures are high around (65-70 degrees celsius). It's amplified if I lose my head lamp.

I also couldn't expand my chest in those scenic caves in Collingwood. That was not cool.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Prof. David Clark at Univ. NB has done some great work in the area of panic disorder, and useful therapies for it.
Whatever elicits it in each individual can certainly differ, but what tends to link them all is that the fear/anxiety state builds such that the person essentially becomes "afraid of fear itself". That is, part of the panic is a response to the sense of loss of control when the anxiety state is initiated. It's a vicious spiral. One of the things that Clark has done, with success, is to use essentially Pavlovian conditioning methods to extinguish the "spiral".

Think of it this way: A and B are associated to the extent that A reliably predicts B. As Pavlov studied it, and generalized principles from, if the bell rings and is always followed shortly after by food, then the dog (or human) will start to salivate in response to the bell, because that food is just around the corner, and reliably so. The same relationship is true of lots of things. Those of us whose memory goes back to the vinyl days will remember that we could "hear" in our minds album track B as soon as track A ended, because we were so used to one following the other.

The association can be degraded/eroded by anything that reduces the_ correlation _between those events. The standard way is to simply discontinue B so that it doesn't follow A. But, since it is their correlation or dependency that results in the association, that correlation can also be degraded by presenting B on its own. That is, if B can simply "happen", without having to depend on A, then A and B stop being associated. In the dog/bell/food context, presenting the food out of the blue will result in the dog not salivating anymore in response to the bell because the bell has lost its predictive value. Got that part? Okay, hang onto it.

Since part of the experience of the panic attack is anxiety in response to the signs of even _greate_r anxiety, Clark treated the panic state as if it were B. He got patients/participants to be in a a relaxed state, and have the physical sensations of a panic state mimicked by various means like chemicals in one study, and simply hyperventilating into a paper bag in another (IIRC). Essentially, it was the physical state of a panic attack, for no particular reason; an analog to giving the dog food out of the blue, for no particular reason, and with no predictable cue.

Though not always the case (many, if not most of our associations are unconscious and not describable), one of the things humans can do, that dogs don't, is "explain" things to themselves. And when the physical state of panic became cognitively dissociable from the milder initial anxiety that normally preceded it, the intensity and frequency of the attacks in the patients declined. If the person can mentally treat the oncoming emotional state as if it were "just one of those damn muscle twitches", and not a sign of things spinning out of control (the B following A that makes one even more anxious), it prevents things from spiralling. And when A stops being a sign/predictor/omen of B, the intensity of A starts to decrease as well.

None of this is to make light of panic disorder, or dismiss it. Rather, it is to emphasize that it's yet another one of those things that - happily - corresponds to some very basic principles of how we normally operate, and those basic principles can be productively applied to fix the very things that are bugging us.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

It's also important to know that there is a difference between a panic attack and an anxiety attack. Mine were the panic variety. A few of the ones I am reading here are anxiety attacks brought on by a specific situation. I had a few of those years ago when I was on the fire dept (volunteer). It always had to do with tight spaces, I hate them. For training we would have to crawl into dark sewer holes or other confined spaces in full gear with tanks. I got through them by stopping what I was doing or trying to fight against what I was pushing through and had to talk myself down. But I hate tight spaces.

The panic attacks, like I mentioned were totally random. I would be just sitting watching tv, or sometimes been asleep for hours and would bolt straight up out of bed in a terrified state. Once you knew it was coming you were screwed because your mind took over. No amount of reasoning with yourself would stop it, unlike the other situation. 



> There are similarities and differences between anxiety and panic attacks. An anxiety attack often comes in reaction to a stressor. You're walking down a dark alley and hear footsteps, or you're at even the top of a rollercoaster and looking to go down that large hill.
> 
> 
> An anxiety attack, people may feel fearful, apprehensive, may feel their heart racing or feel short of breath, but it's very short lived, and when the stressor goes away, so does the anxiety attack.
> ...


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I can't really know what anyone else feels when they feel a sense of panic or terror. I can only tell you I deal with such feelings a few times a month. Sometimes it's bad enough to make me want to puke.

I take no chemical to offset this because I've seen too many people with 1000 yard stares when they're on whatever it is they prescribe.

It passes, I Effing HATE it, but I think the drugs are worse.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

This is true. I've only ever actually had 2 full blown Panic Attacks, both were preceded by anxiety and lasted for hours, and in both cases I could not talk myself down, just the opposite in fact. Both were long flight related "trapped" on the plane, at least as my mind thought of it. Had I been able to sit on the wing I would have been fine 


The Lorazapam I use is very low strength. I usually get 5 or 6 from my doc prior to flying. Actually knowing I have it, and that it works, usually results in me not needing it, if that makes any sense to some of you. I also will pay for extra leg room and an aisle seat on the plane when possible. It's all in our heads, of course, and the past few years worth of trips have been completely uneventful. I'll still carry the security blanket though  I also carry lots of things to keep me distracted, Suduko, crosswords, good books, etc.



GuitarsCanada said:


> It's also important to know that there is a difference between a panic attack and an anxiety attack. Mine were the panic variety. A few of the ones I am reading here are anxiety attacks brought on by a specific situation. I had a few of those years ago when I was on the fire dept (volunteer). It always had to do with tight spaces, I hate them. For training we would have to crawl into dark sewer holes or other confined spaces in full gear with tanks. I got through them by stopping what I was doing or trying to fight against what I was pushing through and had to talk myself down. But I hate tight spaces.
> 
> The panic attacks, like I mentioned were totally random. I would be just sitting watching tv, or sometimes been asleep for hours and would bolt straight up out of bed in a terrified state. Once you knew it was coming you were screwed because your mind took over. No amount of reasoning with yourself would stop it, unlike the other situation.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

davetcan said:


> This is true. I've only ever actually had 2 full blown Panic Attacks, both were preceded by anxiety and lasted for hours, and in both cases I could not talk myself down, just the opposite in fact. Both were long flight related "trapped" on the plane, at least as my mind thought of it. Had I been able to sit on the wing I would have been fine
> 
> 
> The Lorazapam I use is very low strength. I usually get 5 or 6 from my doc prior to flying. Actually knowing I have it, and that it works, usually results in me not needing it, if that makes any sense to some of you. I also will pay for extra leg room and an aisle seat on the plane when possible. It's all in our heads, of course, and the past few years worth of trips have been completely uneventful. I'll still carry the security blanket though  I also carry lots of things to keep me distracted, Suduko, crosswords, good books, etc.


It makes perfect sense to me. Knowing that you can control it if need be is the whole battle. I got out of the anxiety attacks by convincing myself I was not in real danger. Not sure I could do that now but it worked back then. With the panic attacks I simply could not get myself to calm down. The more I tried the worse they got. I went through that hell for well over a year before finally going to the doctors. Kept telling myself I could control it. I don't advise that with the panic attacks because there are drugs out there that work


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Yes.......


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

GuitarsCanada said:


> The panic attacks, like I mentioned were totally random. I would be just sitting watching tv, or sometimes been asleep for hours and would bolt straight up out of bed in a terrified state. Once you knew it was coming you were screwed because your mind took over. No amount of reasoning with yourself would stop it, unlike the other situation.


Exactly! I was sitting there in the truck and all of a sudden my head was swimming. I knew it was a damned panic attack. My husband tried to talk sense to me but it didn't help one iota. I was fidgeting and so uneasy and then bam I was into a full blown horrendous panic attack. I started crying. What else could I do? I know sitting there on the highway forever didn't help the situation. I felt confined by the seat belt and then I felt claustrophobic. I need to get out of the current situation and into wide open spaces.

As soon as I got home I took some prescription sleeping pills. Within about 1/2 of taking them I felt so much better.

I am walking around today with a touch of anxiety. I know once I get to work I will be busy. Hopefully that will take my mind off of things. I always wonder and worry about the next attack. When, where and how long will it be!


----------



## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

I'm experiencing a P. A. right now ever since I woke.. Logged onto GC to try and distract myself after doing chores all AM.

Mine is stress triggered. My Wife has severe depression (along with all the associated baggage) for decades and now coupled with a recent brain injury makes day to day life unpredictable.
Going on a bicycle ride now to see if I can stop this pounding in my chest. Usually just picking up the guitar relieved the PA but that is no longer effective.

Wish me luck.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I take Cipralex for my attacks and it has eased the number of them considerably but I still get them!


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

So, in 1963, Schacter and Singer conducted a study that would probably not pass muster with the ethics review board today, but still remains a classic.

They brought in a bunch of undergrad volunteers, under the ruse that they were researching a vitamin purported to improve vision. The research participants were injected and told there would be a waiting period for the vitamin to take effect, during which time they were in a waiting area, and handed a clipboard with some things to fill out and do. A third were not told anything about the effects of the injection, other than the hoped-for effects on vision. A third were told that there would likely be some side effects on their physical state, like faster heartbeat, higher blood pressure, and such. A third received a saline injection, instead of the actual epinephrine/adrenalin injection the others got.

While waiting, one at a time, they were in the company of another student, also ostensibly a participant in the same study, but really a confederate of the researcher. In half the instances, that other person started to act goofy during the waiting period, doing frivolous things like crumpling the paper sheets on the clipboard and shooting baskets in the garbage can; basically acting silly and having fun. In the other half of instances, the second person acted in a grumpy mood, complaining about waiting and other things. 

At the end of the waiting period, the actual research volunteers were asked to rate their mood. The folks who got the saline injection showed no change or pattern in their mood. The ones who were in the company of the silly person described themselves as feeling happy, and the ones in the company of the grump rated themselves as angry and in a lousy mood.

But here's the catch: _when they knew/expected that the drug would produce physical side effects that "explained" how they felt_, they did not show the change in mood associated with the 2nd person's behaviour. They certainly felt the same physical sensations, due to the adrenalin, but in their minds it was not a change in their *emotional *state, merely a change in some physical weirdness with their body. If there was no explanation for how they physically felt, they associated the physical sensations with their own emotional state, and labelled it as an emotion; specifically the emotion that seemed most contextually plausible.

The study remains a classic because it so nicely illustrated how emotions are not just physical states, but are a sort of social-cognitive phenomenon. What I am feeling, and what it means, is interpreted in terms of why I am feeling it. Disconnecting the physical sensations from the perceived causes of those sensations is pivotal. What happens in panic/anxiety attacks is partly a consequence of how the individual experiencing it labels/explains the physical state to themselves. If one is merely an "observer" of something happening to your body - like the way we observe muscle twitches, and don't connect them with intention or thinking - then the physical sensations accompanying fear are not connected to, or "explained" by, one's state of fear. There's less of the "Oh no, it's happening again!" connected with it.

The challenge here is not to take drugs to reduce any and all emotional swings; we all want to be able to feel enthusiasm when called for. The challenge is to figure out how to make the initial physical sensations of emotional arousal not be perceived/labelled as a sign of even more dysfunctional emotional arousal.


----------



## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

I'm not claustrophobic, but am social anxiety. Sometimes crowds are all honky-dory, other times I get stark loneliness when in crowds even when I am with people I know, and other times I just panic. I have mild autism (what was once called Aspergers) so it kind of follows, but not all people with this are socially anxious. There have been some bad things that have happened and have sought treatment - I have the panic attacks under control with that treatment. But put me in a stressful situation and I can be succeptible to them.


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Lola, ask your doctor about Effexor. It has worked *wonders* for a couple of people I know. I don't know if it's a narcotic or not.

Sometimes NOTHING but drugs will work.

Not the same issue, but as an example someone else I know was on Prednisone - a very strong steroid - for asthma for much of her life. She determined to get off it, and spent a year weaning herself off and onto a super-healthy regimen of restricted diet and Chinese herbal medicine and massage and careful/gentle exercise in fresh mountain air. She very nearly killed herself, returning to Toronto unable to walk much more than 50 level feet without heaving for breath and resting. She went back on Prednisone and within a month was better and within two fit as a fiddle... I can't keep up with her. The Prednisone make take a few years off her life, but she'll have 10-20 years of useful productive happy life by taking it.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

boyscout said:


> Lola, ask your doctor about Effexor. It has worked *wonders* for a couple of people I know. I don't know if it's a narcotic or not.
> 
> Sometimes NOTHING but drugs will work.t


I have tried a few different therapies. When I went to a shrink he suggested that we talk and that I try to forgive the person involved. I won't and I can't! If I could commit murder and get away with it, I would. That's the only way I could get rid of this emotional baggage that nags me to death. These panic attacks are a direct result of a horrific act that I experienced when I was very young. It haunts me on a consistent basis!

I depend solely on my drugs to help alleviate this situation. If you have never experienced a panic attack you will never realize the sheer terror and absolute helplessness that I feel. I take my drugs because I know how I feel when I have been off them for a few days. I forgot them once when we went away and by the 5th day it turned into a day from hell. I really don't care what anyone thinks of me, I will take this drug for the rest of my life. I am not going to subject myself to shit that causes this like cognitive therapy. I just won't! 

Boyscout I did try Effexor slow release and it made me feel like a zombie, emotionally unavailable. I have tried Paxil and a few others. I will stick with my Cipralex. It works for me.


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

See a doctor. I'm retired, but in my previous work I dealt with several clients who had them. What I do know is that you need to know what sets them and try to avoid or prepare for the attacks. See a doctor who knows about anxiety disorders. Talk about quick acting medication that you can stick under your tongue. And,... see a doctor who has experience with anxiety disorders. Sorry about the redundancy.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Lola said:


> I have tried a few different therapies. When I went to a shrink he suggested that we talk and that I try to forgive the person involved. I won't and I can't! If I could commit murder and get away with it, I would. That's the only way I could get rid of this emotional baggage that nags me to death. These panic attacks are a direct result of a horrific act that I experienced when I was very young. It haunts me on a consistent basis!
> 
> I depend solely on my drugs to help alleviate this situation. If you have never experienced a panic attack you will never realize the sheer terror and absolute helplessness that I feel. I take my drugs because I know how I feel when I have been off them for a few days. I forgot them once when we went away and by the 5th day it turned into a day from hell. I really don't care what anyone thinks of me, I will take this drug for the rest of my life. I am not going to subject myself to shit that causes this like cognitive therapy. I just won't!
> 
> Boyscout I did try Effexor slow release and it made me feel like a zombie, emotionally unavailable. I have tried Paxil and a few others. I will stick with my Cipralex. It works for me.


You can trust me when I tell you I know exactly the way you feel during an attack. I was reduced to a shivering blob in a chair many times from those attacks. I was useless to anyone, could not perform my job or perform in any other way. The paxil had some negative side effects but the positives outweighed the negative in my case. It stopped the attacks completely and I had to stop them or I was going to probably end up jumping off a bridge it was getting that bad. I can't help you with the emotional baggage but I can say that if you reached the point I did don't be ashamed of taking a drug to control it. Do what you need to do to function and at the same time you can maybe deal with the rest. Job one is to stop the attacks.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

GuitarsCanada said:


> You can trust me when I tell you I know exactly the way you feel during an attack. I was reduced to a shivering blob in a chair many times from those attacks. I was useless to anyone, could not perform my job or perform in any other way. The paxil had some negative side effects but the positives outweighed the negative in my case. It stopped the attacks completely and I had to stop them or I was going to probably end up jumping off a bridge it was getting that bad. I can't help you with the emotional baggage but I can say that if you reached the point I did don't be ashamed of taking a drug to control it. Do what you need to do to function and at the same time you can maybe deal with the rest. Job one is to stop the attacks.


Thank you for your compassion!! Someone who gets "it"! Last night was so bad that if you would of handed me a gun I wouldn't be here today! Ya, the attacks are that bad!

I am not ashamed of taking a drug to control something that by myself I have no control over! 

I really try to avoid physical triggers. It's the mental triggers that can't get rid of!


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I suffered from them for about a two year period. They were stress related and not brought on by any specific event, came on random. Ended up in the hospital three times with symptoms of a heart attack. They were brutal I can tell you that. Absolutely nothing I did could make them stop, not on my own. They would last up to 3-4 hours sometimes. I tried several prescription drugs and at first they all screwed me up one way or the other until I tried Paxil. Three days on that and I was cured. Took those for well over a year and then quit the job that was causing me the stress to begin with. Three weeks after I quit I stopped taking the Paxil, have never had a problem since. That was almost 8 years ago. So my advice is try to find out the source of the stress and eliminate it, if possible.


Scott, I would never have guessed. Although I don't know you, uou appear a very level headed individual from what I have read in your posts.



ed2000 said:


> I'm experiencing a P. A. right now ever since I woke.. Logged onto GC to try and distract myself after doing chores all AM.
> 
> Mine is stress triggered. My Wife has severe depression (along with all the associated baggage) for decades and now coupled with a recent brain injury makes day to day life unpredictable.
> Going on a bicycle ride now to see if I can stop this pounding in my chest. Usually just picking up the guitar relieved the PA but that is no longer effective.
> ...


So sorry you have such an endurance test to face on a daily basis. It must be very draining for you. I hope you have a person or several you can talk to in order to shed some of this stress.



Lola said:


> I have tried a few different therapies. When I went to a shrink he suggested that we talk and that I try to forgive the person involved. I won't and I can't! If I could commit murder and get away with it, I would. That's the only way I could get rid of this emotional baggage that nags me to death. These panic attacks are a direct result of a horrific act that I experienced when I was very young. It haunts me on a consistent basis!
> 
> I depend solely on my drugs to help alleviate this situation. If you have never experienced a panic attack you will never realize the sheer terror and absolute helplessness that I feel. I take my drugs because I know how I feel when I have been off them for a few days. I forgot them once when we went away and by the 5th day it turned into a day from hell. I really don't care what anyone thinks of me, I will take this drug for the rest of my life. I am not going to subject myself to shit that causes this like cognitive therapy. I just won't!
> 
> Boyscout I did try Effexor slow release and it made me feel like a zombie, emotionally unavailable. I have tried Paxil and a few others. _*I will stick with my Cipralex. It works for me.*_


Lola: Although I have experienced an anxiety attack or two, it has never developed into a full blown anxiety attack. I think your psychiatrist gave you good advice but at the same time some things are more difficult to forgive than others. 

There are a number of new SSRI's on the market now with Cipralex being one of them. My wife is currently on a small daily dose of Ciplalex since her other drug stopped working, which they tend to do after awhile, and has been a help. 

I also have a friend who was involved in a very frightening accident with their travel trailer. They were no hurt but both their truck and trailer were write-offs. The truck turned 360 degrees in the air. She was okay for about two years and now gets very anxious when others are driving and two years ago was on the way to Kitchener from St. Catharines and at a stoplight she jumped out of the truck at an intersection and into the path of an oncoming vehicle. It saw her in time and stopped so she was okay. I just wanted to tell you this so you know you are not alone in feeling this way in a vehicle at times. 

I hope you can keep it under control. I wonder if it would be a good idea for you if as soon as you start to feel the panic coming on the next time to just have the vehicle stopped and get our for awhile until you settle your nerves? Just a thought.


----------



## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

GuitarsCanada said:


> You can trust me when I tell you I know exactly the way you feel during an attack. I was reduced to a shivering blob in a chair many times from those attacks. I was useless to anyone, could not perform my job or perform in any other way. The paxil had some negative side effects but the positives outweighed the negative in my case. It stopped the attacks completely and I had to stop them or I was going to probably end up jumping off a bridge it was getting that bad. I can't help you with the emotional baggage but I can say that if you reached the point I did don't be ashamed of taking a drug to control it. Do what you need to do to function and at the same time you can maybe deal with the rest. Job one is to stop the attacks.


I took risperidal. It didn't help with the panic attacks, but it did get a sense that I could perhaps control my Tourette's (something I also have.) The lack of sense that I could control the Tourettes or that Tourettes could not overwhelm me, a process that took a long time, ended the panic attacks. Though Tourettes only factors into some of the causes of the panic and stress attacks (PTSD), it has helped a lot and allowed me to get out of a very stressful situation(s).

The forgiveness angle is crap. Just outright crap. There are just some things you do not forgive. You don't carry the burden of anger - you need a way of getting that burden off - but to blather on about forgiving is just not productive. Some people can do it, others can't do it.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Steadfastly said:


> Scott, I would never have guessed. Although I don't know you, uou appear a very level headed individual from what I have read in your posts.


Level headed may not be the right term but I get what you are saying. Prior to those episodes I never gave much thought to these things. Frankly, I used to dismiss many people that would talk about depression and anxiety. I always prided myself on dealing with issues head on and working through them. The weird thing is that I don't feel any different then I did back then. I never "felt" any stress. I never knew that it was the job that was doing it, I did it for years without any issues. There may have been other things going on as well. But I always handled things, always. It's hard to admit to yourself that you are overwhelmed and just can't handle things. My pride in that area and my sense of obligation just about destroyed me. So now I have a lot of sympathy for people in those situations. I still think the terms are overused but for those that truly suffer from depression and anxiety, I feel for them. It was the worst thing I have ever gone through in my life and not only for me, everyone around me as well.

The other thing is I hate taking drugs of any kind. I fought it and fought it until I could no longer function. Way too long. Once on it my goal was to get off it. So I went after the source of the stress and in the end had to make a life change. Like I said earlier, three weeks after I quit I stopped the pills and have never had an issue since. So there is a source, just have to find it.

The human mind is extraordinary. There is so much going on in our minds that we are unaware of. Even when we think it's shut off its not and there is an overload on there.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

This is why perhaps that I have become overly obsessed with music and my guitar. It's an avenue of escape for me! It offers relief!


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

deleted this post


----------



## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

This was what I wrote in the deepest period of my anxiety attacks: https://soundcloud.com/xelebes/xelebes-trying-to-speak

(Yeah, I don't play the guitar. Drum machines and synths for me.)


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I could have written every word of this. Well said and I understand completely.



GuitarsCanada said:


> Level headed may not be the right term but I get what you are saying. Prior to those episodes I never gave much thought to these things. Frankly, I used to dismiss many people that would talk about depression and anxiety. I always prided myself on dealing with issues head on and working through them. The weird thing is that I don't feel any different then I did back then. I never "felt" any stress. I never knew that it was the job that was doing it, I did it for years without any issues. There may have been other things going on as well. But I always handled things, always. It's hard to admit to yourself that you are overwhelmed and just can't handle things. My pride in that area and my sense of obligation just about destroyed me. So now I have a lot of sympathy for people in those situations. I still think the terms are overused but for those that truly suffer from depression and anxiety, I feel for them. It was the worst thing I have ever gone through in my life and not only for me, everyone around me as well.
> 
> The other thing is I hate taking drugs of any kind. I fought it and fought it until I could no longer function. Way too long. Once on it my goal was to get off it. So I went after the source of the stress and in the end had to make a life change. Like I said earlier, three weeks after I quit I stopped the pills and have never had an issue since. So there is a source, just have to find it.
> 
> The human mind is extraordinary. There is so much going on in our minds that we are unaware of. Even when we think it's shut off its not and there is an overload on there.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Lola said:


> Thank you for your compassion!! Someone who gets "it"! Last night was so bad that if you would of handed me a gun I wouldn't be here today! Ya, the attacks are that bad!
> 
> I am not ashamed of taking a drug to control something that by myself I have no control over!
> 
> I really try to avoid physical triggers. It's the mental triggers that can't get rid of!


You should not ever be ashamed of using the best countermeasure you have available. Sometimes that's chemical intervention (drugs), but sadly in modern medicine, that's generally the first and only line of defense.

If your problems are severe enough that the side effects (and no matter WHAT drug you, side effects are there to one degree or another) are not as bad as the problem you're trying to alleviate, you take the drugs, plain and simple.

That's nothing whatsoever to be ashamed about.

If my post gave you or anyone else that impression, please accept my apology.

Eat more cookies. Good luck.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Lola said:


> Thank you for your compassion!! Someone who gets "it"! Last night was so bad that if you would of handed me a gun I wouldn't be here today! Ya, the attacks are that bad!


Oh ya, I get it believe me. I remember telling my wife several times "I can't live like this any longer, I don't want to live like this anymore, this is not living, it's existing" and I meant those words. I was very much reaching the end. That's when I finally broke down and got wise and got myself to the doctors. The bad thing is I was literally ashamed when I had to tell him I was totally out of control, ashamed when I had to sit in my bosses office and tell him I needed time to sort this out and would not be 100% for a while. These were the really hard things for me. The battle with myself more than the battle with the illness. Pride can kill you and the message is don't let it. This shit can happen to anyone and I guarantee you ignoring it or wishing it away won't help. 

I can't explain what happens medically, all I know is my experience, what happened and how I eventually had to deal with it.

Oh and PS: This all happened to me in what I would classify as probably the best times of my life. I had met my soul mate (truly) in Marnie about 6 years prior. I was making a ton of money, no financial issues at all, taking 3 vacations a year, my kids were doing great with school etc..... and bang.... the hours and commitment at work were heavy and I am sure that played a large part but again, never felt it. Today I make 1/4 of that cash and we maybe get away once a year if we are lucky but all that stress and anxiety are long gone.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Oh ya, I get it believe me. I remember telling my wife several times "I can't live like this any longer, I don't want to live like this anymore, this is not living, it's existing" and I meant those words. I was very much reaching the end. That's when I finally broke down and got wise and got myself to the doctors. The bad thing is I was literally ashamed when I had to tell him I was totally out of control, ashamed when I had to sit in my bosses office and tell him I needed time to sort this out and would not be 100% for a while. These were the really hard things for me. The battle with myself more than the battle with the illness. Pride can kill you and the message is don't let it. This shit can happen to anyone and I guarantee you ignoring it or wishing it away won't help.
> 
> I can't explain what happens medically, all I know is my experience, what happened and how I eventually had to deal with it.
> 
> Oh and PS: This all happened to me in what I would classify as probably the best times of my life. I had met my soul mate (truly) in Marnie about 6 years prior. I was making a ton of money, no financial issues at all, taking 3 vacations a year, my kids were doing great with school etc..... and bang.... the hours and commitment at work were heavy and I am sure that played a large part but again, never felt it. Today I make 1/4 of that cash and we maybe get away once a year if we are lucky but all that stress and anxiety are long gone.


That may be coming for me. I could do with less cash flow if the stress level was a lot lower. The thing is, I don't think I'd have less stress if I changed careers. I believe I need to learn to deal with / cast off / mitigate the stress better.

I think it will follow me wherever I go and I'm trying to better understand the triggers. I can feel it coming when it hits and sometimes I can exercise some sort of control over it. Sometimes just knowing what is happening is enough to turn the tide.

Sometimes not.

I think it has to be drugs or mind control, and since my mind is pretty weak, I'm hoping I can gain more control over it.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

The only way I was able to solve my panic/anxiety issue was to remove the roots and triggers from my life, then take some time to reorder my brain. Job stress was at the root. Generally I am able to handle anything but the compounding of various stresses was more than I could handle in the long term. Very long days under very high stress with no promise of an end or resolution, little employer support (and indeed I was double-crossed a couple of times), and false accusations etc, all led to my brain taking a holiday. My handwriting went for a crap, my vision would blur, I'd pass out anywhere (at meetings, behind the wheel), I started to drink more heavily, especially alone, and I started forgetting stuff that was vital to my job performance. Then one day I forgot what I was supposed to do, where I was supposed to go, and why. I can recall it better now, 17 years later, than I could at the time. Weird stuff.

Anyway, a long stress leave followed by termination and a period on pogey forced me back to employment doing something else completely. Stressors gone, triggers gone, life restored.

I sure got tired of health care professionals asking me if I wanted to off myself. No, all I wanted was contentment, at any price. 

Peace, Mooh.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Milkman said:


> That may be coming for me. I could do with less cash flow if the stress level was a lot lower. The thing is, I don't think I'd have less stress if I changed careers. I believe I need to learn to deal with / cast off / mitigate the stress better.
> 
> I think it will follow me wherever I go and I'm trying to better understand the triggers. I can feel it coming when it hits and sometimes I can exercise some sort of control over it. Sometimes just knowing what is happening is enough to turn the tide.
> 
> ...


You may still be in the early stages yet, Mike. It took at least 2-3 years for it to reach the breaking point with me. Just kept telling myself "no problem, I can handle it". Because I had worked steady without a break since I was 17 right through to the age of 47 without an issue I kept saying "what the F is wrong with you?" Actually calling myself names.... it's bizarre what you go through. I was in the same line of work you are so I know what you deal with and I know just how much added pressure its been the last 8 years. We don't see it ourselves a lot and oddly enough those closest to us may not say anything while it's happening, and can't help even if they tried. But wow do I remember the comments after I was on the Paxil for a few months. My co-workers, my family and Marnie all said "thank god you got help, you were a monster" to which I said "why the F did you not tell me?" people see it but they don't know how to tell you. They don't understand whats happening.

The good thing is and what everyone needs to realize is that IT'S NOT PERMANENT.... this is not a permanent change, it's a condition, an illness that is easily treated and can be totally eliminated.


----------



## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

sounds like you are dealing with some profound trauma Lola. I am sorry for what you did, and are, going thru. 

I remember reading an interview with John 5 where he describe his struggles with anxiety and said his only antidote was to practice 8 hrs a day. 

my wife had panic attacks, when I met her she had already been diagnosed with agoraphobia. she is very sensitive and the only medication that did not mess her up more was lorazapam, in very small doze. she was able to get her life on track and manage her anxiety and has not had an attack in many years. 

I can also empathize with your husband; the frustration and helplessness.

I hope you can find a good councilor. forgiveness is an involuntary response to virtue. You can no more will yourself to forgive someone than you can force yourself to trust them. 

good luck.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Agreed, it's worked wonders for me when I've needed it, with no visible/noticeable side effects. Mind you the prescription usually says 2 or 3 a day as required and just 1 has always done the trick. At this stage I think a placebo would work for me as well as anything. 

It's been about 5 years since my last "major" attack. In the last 5 years I've likely only needed a total of about 10 -15 pills, most of which were "just in case" prior to boarding a plane.



bluesmostly said:


> my wife had panic attacks, when I met her she had already been diagnosed with agoraphobia. she is very sensitive and the only medication that did not mess her up more was *lorazapam*, in very small doze. she was able to get her life on track and manage her anxiety and has not had an attack in many years.


----------



## bluebayou (May 25, 2015)

I learned to meditate. Whenever I hit a downward spiral, I close my eyes and silently chant my mantra. By focusing on my mantra I alleviate my symptoms, to a degree. Not totally, but enough to manage.


----------



## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

I guess the worst panic??? I have ever had was while having an MRI. The first time they put me in feet first and I only felt uncomfortable, the second time they put me in headfirst and I totally freaked out kicking and screaming I was sure I was going to die the tech pulled me out immediately and sent me to a private clinic that had what is called an open MRI. I survived that with the help of a couple of Alprazolam this ws still very scary. I still would never have another one unless I was completely unconscious. 
Falling asleep on my back will bring out a panic reaction I sit bolt upright gasping for breath and flailing my arms and feet about. Apparently I stop breathing if I fall asleep on my back, fortunately non of these attacks last very long although they are still very upsetting. Medication does not help with the sleeping problem. I have just forced myself to always sleep on my stomach. Since my surgery I now have to learn to sleep on one side or the other. Fortunately for me I don't suffer nearly as bad as some of the people posting on this thread. Lola I hope you find an answer soon.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Lola said:


> I have tried a few different therapies. When I went to a shrink he suggested that we talk and that I try to forgive the person involved. I won't and I can't! If I could commit murder and get away with it, I would. That's the only way I could get rid of this emotional baggage that nags me to death. These panic attacks are a direct result of a horrific act that I experienced when I was very young. It haunts me on a consistent basis!
> 
> I depend solely on my drugs to help alleviate this situation. If you have never experienced a panic attack you will never realize the sheer terror and absolute helplessness that I feel. I take my drugs because I know how I feel when I have been off them for a few days. I forgot them once when we went away and by the 5th day it turned into a day from hell. I really don't care what anyone thinks of me, I will take this drug for the rest of my life. I am not going to subject myself to shit that causes this like cognitive therapy. I just won't!
> 
> Boyscout I did try Effexor slow release and it made me feel like a zombie, emotionally unavailable. I have tried Paxil and a few others. I will stick with my Cipralex. It works for me.


Lola, I am sorry to hear of your situation and that someone has put you in this place...clearly you have been victimized. 
The drugs are only a band-aid and will only last so long. Dependencies easily happen also. But, the professionals are right, you do need to face this. As much as it seems wrong, you need to heal and that includes some form of forgiveness in order to move forward. Anger bottled up inside does much harm...you need to put it on the table. Dissect it. Process it and sweep it in the trash...drugs only sweep it under the carpet where it will eventually creep out again. 

Good luck and be well


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I have talked to a psychotherapist, psychiatrist and my family doctor. I have tried so many times to let the negative thoughts not take up rent in my brain but they manage to weasel in there somewhere. I went for a year and a bit to the shrink! I told him everything. Our talks ended up with my trying to forgive someone but I don't have it in me. What happened to me, no one should have to endure. Mental devastation at it's most profound!

I have a lot more good days then bad thanks to Pfzier. I have to take a pill forever but I am okay with that. I have fought with these demons for too many tiring years and I just can't do it anymore without chemical intervention.


----------



## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

I sometimes wonder if we reveal too much on the internet. But this forum is smaller, and more intimate, than any other one that I have belonged to. And I have enjoyed all of Lola's posts, I consider our forum richer for her presence. I have battled mental illness for my entire life. As crazy as I may have been, when I lived in the U.S., I often realized that my psychiatrists were just as sick as I was. In Canada, one day, my wife finally had to call the police. Three burly young officers burst into my house, hands hovering over their weapons. I had enough sense to sit down, show empty hands, and talk calmly. They escorted me to a psychiatric unit, where I was committed for 30 days. Thank goodness I got a wonderful man as my psychiatrist. He was able to help me to regain my sanity. I would never presume to tell anyone else what to do, but I do have credentials for strong empathy.


----------



## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

Scotty said:


> Lola, I am sorry to hear of your situation and that someone has put you in this place...clearly you have been victimized.
> The drugs are only a band-aid and will only last so long. Dependencies easily happen also. But, the professionals are right, you do need to face this. As much as it seems wrong, you need to heal and that includes some form of forgiveness in order to move forward. Anger bottled up inside does much harm...you need to put it on the table. Dissect it. Process it and sweep it in the trash...drugs only sweep it under the carpet where it will eventually creep out again.
> 
> Good luck and be well


That's BS. You don't forgive. To be traumatised and be asked to forgive an assailant who has given no indication that they will show no remorse, who will double down and turn on you should you ask by blaming the assault on you, simply is not forgiven. No, the only forgiving that should be afforded to should be the ones who could have protected you but didn't. If they can and do make amends by being aware of the issue and making sure there is a distance between you and the assailant, then that forgiving can be had.

Until then, it amounts to victim blaming. Screw that. No time for that.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

rhh7 said:


> I sometimes wonder if we reveal too much on the internet. But this forum is smaller, and more intimate, than any other one that I have belonged to. And I have enjoyed all of Lola's posts, I consider our forum richer for her presence. I have battled mental illness for my entire life. As crazy as I may have been, when I lived in the U.S., I often realized that my psychiatrists were just as sick as I was. In Canada, one day, my wife finally had to call the police. Three burly young officers burst into my house, hands hovering over their weapons. I had enough sense to sit down, show empty hands, and talk calmly. They escorted me to a psychiatric unit, where I was committed for 30 days. Thank goodness I got a wonderful man as my psychiatrist. He was able to help me to regain my sanity. I would never presume to tell anyone else what to do, but I do have credentials for strong empathy.


Thank you so much for your kind words about me. It means a lot to me.

- - - Updated - - -



Xelebes said:


> That's BS. You don't forgive. To be traumatised and be asked to forgive an assailant who has given no indication that they will show no remorse, who will double down and turn on you should you ask by blaming the assault on you, simply is not forgiven. No, the only forgiving that should be afforded to should be the ones who could have protected you but didn't. If they can and do make amends by being aware of the issue and making sure there is a distance between you and the assailant, then that forgiving can be had.
> 
> Until then, it amounts to victim blaming. Screw that. No time for that.


Like you said, screw that! That person denied anything ever happening. I could of killed him on the spot for the denial. I hate what happened and I absolutely, unequivocally hate that person. I never intend to forgive him EVER!


----------



## bluebayou (May 25, 2015)

Its very complicated. There is lots of talk these days of forgiveness and moving on. Well, there are people from my life who I know deliberately did what they did for their own self agrandization. No, not ever a shred of forgiveness. Ever! As hard as I have worked and all the drugs I have taken, and still take daily, there are certain things that trigger my PTSD. Yes, before you go off about it being over prescribed, it IS PTSD. Still not that well understood by anyone! Even the psychologists and psychiatqrists I have seen don't get it. They do the old "well, just decide to not stay a victim". What utter bullshit! I stopped seeing these charlatans. Do you not think that if I could I wouldn't??!! Taking effexor is such fun! And on days when you forget to take it, holy crap! Just plain batshit crazy! Fortunately my wife, we will be married 40 years (no thats not a typo) can quickly deduce what is wrong, get drugs into me and sit me down with my music and headphones. Modern psychiatry does not fathom how deep those scars are. And even with drugs, meditation, music and everthing else, there are days when the whole thing is just so overwhelming. There is nothing that anything can do to stop or prevent that black downward spiraling whirlpool from grabbing a hold of you. What the psychiatrist don't seem to understand is that everything in my life is going as good as possible. Got shelter, food, water, health care, enjoyable passtimes and hobbies (I'm retired), sufficient funds to be comfortable. So whats the problem!???! I don't fucking know!!!! Thats why I sam here talking to you!!! They just sit there. No idea. So I figured why bother? If four of you have no idea, I'll drink myself into oblivion several times a year. The frustration with this is really high. People get pissed at you for drinking too much a few times a year but no one else has any answers or ideas.
i'm getting angry now. Time to go.


----------



## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

I agree with Xelebes. Like I alluded to in my last post, the feelings of anger, revolt, and mistrust are your body's way of protecting you from evil and predatory people. You cannot 'will' these feelings away, nor should you want to. You can try to suppress them and substance abuse them into subjugation for a while, but the are not going away by somehow willing yourself to 'forgive' and 'let it go'. I think a good counselor can help with the process of working thru trauma and I would walk away from anyone that tries to tell you to 'forgive' and 'move on.'

hope you can get some help to sort out your stuff too bluebayou. tough stuff.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

fredyfreeloader said:


> I guess the worst panic??? I have ever had was while having an MRI. The first time they put me in feet first and I only felt uncomfortable, the second time they put me in headfirst and I totally freaked out kicking and screaming I was sure I was going to die the tech pulled me out immediately and sent me to a private clinic that had what is called an open MRI. I survived that with the help of a couple of Alprazolam this ws still very scary. I still would never have another one unless I was completely unconscious.
> Falling asleep on my back will bring out a panic reaction I sit bolt upright gasping for breath and flailing my arms and feet about. Apparently I stop breathing if I fall asleep on my back, fortunately non of these attacks last very long although they are still very upsetting. Medication does not help with the sleeping problem. I have just forced myself to always sleep on my stomach. Since my surgery I now have to learn to sleep on one side or the other. Fortunately for me I don't suffer nearly as bad as some of the people posting on this thread. Lola I hope you find an answer soon.


I suffer from claustrophobia as well. I had a MRI when I had my concussion. This tests in the MRI were 40 minutes long. The tech warned me before hand. I thought I was going to lose it entirely being in that little tunnel. I played a game with myself that worked brilliantly. I listened to the sounds that the MRI was making and tried to compose a song from the different noises. By the time I finished thinking of how to put the song together with the bits in my mind the test was over. It worked so well. 

I sometimes have a very difficult time taking a shower. I hate being in a confined space. Sometimes mind games work and other times they don't! The medication I take though helps with this situation. There have been times where nothing works. I end up getting the quickest shower ever known to mankind.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

bluebayou said:


> Its very complicated. There is lots of talk these days of forgiveness and moving on. Well, there are people from my life who I know deliberately did what they did for their own self agrandization. No, not ever a shred of forgiveness. Ever! As hard as I have worked and all the drugs I have taken, and still take daily, there are certain things that trigger my PTSD. Yes, before you go off about it being over prescribed, it IS PTSD. Still not that well understood by anyone! Even the psychologists and psychiatqrists I have seen don't get it. They do the old "well, just decide to not stay a victim". What utter bullshit! I stopped seeing these charlatans. Do you not think that if I could I wouldn't??!! Taking effexor is such fun! And on days when you forget to take it, holy crap! Just plain batshit crazy! Fortunately my wife, we will be married 40 years (no thats not a typo) can quickly deduce what is wrong, get drugs into me and sit me down with my music and headphones. Modern psychiatry does not fathom how deep those scars are. And even with drugs, meditation, music and everthing else, there are days when the whole thing is just so overwhelming. There is nothing that anything can do to stop or prevent that black downward spiraling whirlpool from grabbing a hold of you. What the psychiatrist don't seem to understand is that everything in my life is going as good as possible. Got shelter, food, water, health care, enjoyable passtimes and hobbies (I'm retired), sufficient funds to be comfortable. So whats the problem!???! I don't fucking know!!!! Thats why I sam here talking to you!!! They just sit there. No idea. So I figured why bother? If four of you have no idea, I'll drink myself into oblivion several times a year. The frustration with this is really high. People get pissed at you for drinking too much a few times a year but no one else has any answers or ideas.
> i'm getting angry now. Time to go.


That is what my medical diagnoses was PTSD. No one can possibly know the fallout from PTSD ever unless they have experienced it themselves. I know myself after so many years of knowing what's going on with me. PTSD has a lot of baggage with it. The fallout is horrible. Relationships suffer, you suffer and we're stuck trying to figure things out ourselves. I too used to drink myself into oblivion but with the different medications I am on I can't drink anymore. All is well though. I like the NO hangover aspect of it. If things really get out of hand I will take a valium or a clonazepam(same thing) or eat a pot cookie. It's really funny. I tell myself that everything is okay when I am high and I am more relaxed and feeling better and just go off and play guitar for hours on end. These are coping mechanisms. I do what works. There are so many problems that occur from situations like PTSD.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I am not a vindictive kind of person but this behavior I feel warrants this. 

This person is a CEO of a bank. I have thought about telling the local newspapers what happened and letting them have a free for all. I don't know the legal ramifications of this though. I want to let the whole world know what a evil piece of shit this person really is. He's a very good actor. Devoted husband, grandfather and an upstanding member of the community. This is so wrong. It's all a lie! He's an evil predator who took advantage of someone's innocence. This person is blood, he's my own brother! What a scumbag!


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Lola said:


> I am not a vindictive kind of person but this behavior I feel warrants this.
> 
> This person is a CEO of a bank. I have thought about telling the local newspapers what happened and letting them have a free for all. I don't know the legal ramifications of this though. I want to let the whole world know what a evil piece of shit this person really is. He's a very good actor. Devoted husband, grandfather and an upstanding member of the community. This is so wrong. It's all a lie!_* He's an evil predator who took advantage of someone's innocence*_. This person is blood, he's my own brother! What a scumbag!


That is absolutely true. What that means is you bear no fault, no blame, no responsibility for what happened.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Xelebes said:


> That's BS. You don't forgive. To be traumatised and be asked to forgive an assailant who has given no indication that they will show no remorse, who will double down and turn on you should you ask by blaming the assault on you, simply is not forgiven. No, the only forgiving that should be afforded to should be the ones who could have protected you but didn't. If they can and do make amends by being aware of the issue and making sure there is a distance between you and the assailant, then that forgiving can be had.
> 
> Until then, it amounts to victim blaming. Screw that. No time for that.


I didn't mean go over with a plate of cookies and make nice. Constant anger and thoughts of retribution perpetuate the act over and over and nothing good comes of it. The victim continues to suffer, in effect becoming a victim many times over. Repressed anger manifests itself in physical and emotional ways. Nothing good comes of it....
The whole world wants a little pill to fix it all, and another to deal with side effects. They work for short period of time. The answer is to face it and process it as the person is able to. There's a reason some spiritual paths call for forgiveness. Its 2-3000 year old science that works.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Scotty said:


> I didn't mean go over with a plate of cookies and make nice. Constant anger and thoughts of retribution perpetuate the act over and over and nothing good comes of it. The victim continues to suffer, in effect becoming a victim many times over. Repressed anger manifests itself in physical and emotional ways. Nothing good comes of it....
> The whole world wants a little pill to fix it all, and another to deal with side effects. They work for short period of time. The answer is to face it and process it as the person is able to. There's a reason some spiritual paths call for forgiveness. Its 2-3000 year old science that works.



So what I am understanding that if I took the road to spiritual forgiveness that would lead to the healing of all the psychological damage and wounds that these occurences inflicted upon me? 

I don't believe in spirituality number one and how the hell do you forgive an adult at 18 years of age for many horrific premeditated acts???


----------



## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

Scotty said:


> I didn't mean go over with a plate of cookies and make nice. Constant anger and thoughts of retribution perpetuate the act over and over and nothing good comes of it. The victim continues to suffer, in effect becoming a victim many times over. Repressed anger manifests itself in physical and emotional ways. Nothing good comes of it....
> The whole world wants a little pill to fix it all, and another to deal with side effects. They work for short period of time. The answer is to face it and process it as the person is able to. There's a reason some spiritual paths call for forgiveness. Its 2-3000 year old science that works.


No. The thing to do is set boundaries not forgive. The set boundaries that are respected give you a chance to live in peace. When that boundary is breached, anger is called for. Not unhinged but a measured amount of anger to make sure that boundary is respected. Likewise, you give the perpetrator their boundary. Mostly this is so you can maintain your own boundary. This chance for peace is important.

That said, forgiving never addresses the problems of PTSD. It doesn't resolve the anxiety, it doesn't resolve the stress reactions, it doesn't resolve the momentary panics. The only way I could resolve my stress attacks was to place confidence in my family members and that my family knew what happened to me. I knew that I could ask my family for help. I knew I could trust society in general for help.

I may one day have another serious stress attack and go catatonic once more. But I am a fair distance from that now and I appreciate that.


----------



## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

I am not part of the club per say but have had some anxiety in the past. Wasn't sure what it was at first. First time something happened I was at Montreal Jazz Fest (2005?) and we were out in the sun that day, went out to Mont Royal parc got stoned, listened to the tam tams, had some drinks, things were good. Went to see Pat Methany later that night had some beersand a doob on the streets, saw a few acts on our way down to place des arts and started working our way through a PACKED street to at least be able to see the stage. We got a beer each from the street vendor and by the time i finished I felt like somebody drugged me and it felt like it was hard to breath and a feeling in my head like a head rush that didnt stop and kept getting worse until things went purple/black and I fell back on some lady behind me and had a small convulsion on the ground for ~10 seconds or so. Scared the shit outtta me. I got up, staggered to the bathroom got an ice cream and watched the rest of the show. Never saw a doc about it, never happened like that again though. 

Its happened to a lessor extent at other concerts so I've linked it to large crowds but can now control it when i feel it coming on. Just breath through it and focus your mind on something else. Easier said than done, I know. 

What i find interesting is the increased prevalence of this type of stuff. And Im not referring to PTSD shit and other issues caused from past trauma but run of the mill healthy individuals with panic/fear/anxiety. My sister. cousin and good friend, all on benzos of one kind or another. my buddy is on clonazapam, bad shit. He's addicted and withdrawl is very hard. He's been on more pills than I can count. They fuck with your brain chemistry. There's gotta be a reason for the increase of these ailments, can't just be better diagnosis? My sister is as straight egde as they come so its not all a substance use/abuse issue.


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Lola. You are a wise woman. It's all over the news lately that talking about these issues with other people help to alleviate the pain and you are doing just that. As for your brother, how about living a good life and outliving the scumbag. When karma eventually catches up with him. You can do whatever you want on his grave. If he's cremated, write a note telling him what you think of him. Burn the note and find a way to slip it into his ashes. Until then, enjoy doing the things in life that make you happy and wait for your turn to get even.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

There is no karma. That's just a fantasy, but if you're into karma, youtube has lots of clips that will support that.


No, if you want payback, retribution, revenge, you have to take it. It's never too late.

And twenty years later is even sweeter.

At the risk of being indiscrete, it seems like you were abused by someone you should have been able to trust, someone who should have protected you, not preyed upon you.

I'm not suggesting anything, but there are a few things I WOULD hold a grudge about and that's one of them.

He won't get karma unless someone dispenses it.

Sorry. There's nothing fouler in my opinion than someone who harms a child. I'd gladly go to jail for killing anyone who harmed my kids in such a way.

On behalf of men everywhere, I'm sorry as hell this happened to you.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Milkman said:


> There is no karma. That's just a fantasy.


Yes, it is a product of people's imaginations. It is similar to luck, superstition, etc.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Moosehead said:


> my buddy is on clonazapam, bad shit. He's addicted and withdrawl is very hard. He's been on more pills than I can count. They fuck with your brain chemistry. There's gotta be a reason for the increase of these ailments, can't just be better diagnosis? My sister is as straight egde as they come so its not all a substance use/abuse issue.


The absolute kindness and compassion that everyone has shown me it's incredible. Thank you from the bottom of my heart! 

I too was on Clonazepam. It's a really addictive drug. It's what I lived on for I would say, a year or so. I knew I had to get off this drug. I just went cold turkey! I didn't suffer any withdrawal symptoms at all. It was a godsend though. Within 20 minutes of taking 0.5 mg I was calm and relaxed and the anxiety was a thing of the past. It was just too damned easy.

It wasn't until I went to see a shrink that specializes in PTSD, he suggested Cipralex. He gave me a script for free. That made me very dubious. Get me hooked on this shit and enjoy the pharmaceutical kickbacks. I thought he was a bit of a scumg. I took the drug with some hesitation. I did some homework on the drug and decided I had nothing to lose. The drug really did help to turn my thinking processes around though. Usually I can talk myself out of anxiety so it doesn't escalate into a full blown panic attack and other times it's useless. 

I scare myself to death sometimes though. When I am in the middle of a full blown episode I could easily jump off a bridge or play Russian roulette without even having any hesitation. I really think I have to go back to the shrink to talk this part of my problem through. All I am thinking is relief and nothing else. It would a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Ya, it's time for some more professional help! I am not trying to be selfish just trying to get some relief!


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Lola said:


> The absolute kindness and compassion that everyone has shown me it's incredible. Thank you from the bottom of my heart!
> 
> I too was on Clonazepam. It's a really addictive drug. It's what I lived on for I would say, a year or so. I knew I had to get off this drug. I just went cold turkey! I didn't suffer any withdrawal symptoms at all. It was a godsend though. Within 20 minutes of taking 0.5 mg I was calm and relaxed and the anxiety was a thing of the past. It was just too damned easy.
> 
> ...


Lola, that is a wise decision. Talking about our problems never hurts. 

Regarding the Cipralex, I may have mentioned already that my wife is on a small daily dose and it has helped a lot. However, we did have to play with the dosage a bit to get it right. Another thing the doctor mentioned is that if she was going through a bad patch, she could increase the dosage for to help get through it. If you think that may help, don't take my word for it or do it on your own. Talk to your doctor first.

Another thing we have been doing for about a year or so is going to a naturopath. One of the things he explained is that as we get older our hormones can get out of balance and that can cause our brains to produce less serotonin which is that wonderful natural chemical that makes us feel good and normally gets increased to help us deal with stress. His methods seem to be working because we have both been able to reduce our drugs, mine for mild bi-polar disorder and hers for anxiety and depression. Just a few thoughts that may be of help to you.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Yes, it is a product of people's imaginations. It is similar to luck, superstition, etc.


Instant karma's going to get ya.


----------



## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Electraglide said:


> Instant karma's going to get ya.



I prefer "You reap what you sow". Pretty much the same idea though.

Lola, my heart goes out to you.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

bluzfish said:


> I prefer "You reap what you sow". Pretty much the same idea though.
> 
> Lola, my heart goes out to you.


How could I not acknowledge such beautiful words of compassion?(maybe I should write a song about this?!)

OMG thank you! It's comments like this that keep me going!


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

bluzfish said:


> I prefer "You reap what you sow". Pretty much the same idea though.
> 
> Lola, my heart goes out to you.


I sure the hell hope not or I could be in big trouble if my gods aren't the right gods.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Lola said:


> How could I not acknowledge such beautiful words of compassion?(maybe I should write a song about this?!)
> 
> OMG thank you! It's comments like this that keep me going!


[video=youtube;DgkBJJOPl-Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgkBJJOPl-Y[/video]
Take a moment to just listen to the song and the music. Don't look for any hidden meanings, just sit back and enjoy. 
[video=youtube;w0VDnQv-rLA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0VDnQv-rLA[/video]
Here's another one. Like I said there's no hidden messages....just songs I play sometimes
One last thing.....headphones and crank it. The guitar solo is killer.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Yes, it is a product of people's imaginations. It is similar to luck, superstition, etc.


LOL.

A break through. Good.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I was just sitting on my bed relaxing and the WHAM a horrible panic attack occurred! I started hyper ventilating and running around the dining room table, grabbed my coat and went jogging for half an hour, tears streaming down my face! Came back home and my hubby already had my guitar plugged in and ready to go! I sat down and began to play, this really helped! 

At lunch today my coworkers and I were talking about family and it triggered a very uneasy feeling. I had to get out of there! Just got up and left them to their conversation
These stupid thoughts just carried on through tonight! The talk about family started me on a downward spiral! 

Sometimes distractions work and thank god they did this time or I would of ended up going to the hospital once again. These stupid thoughts are horrible! An overwhelming uncontrollable fear


----------



## Guest (Jan 27, 2016)

Have you considered a therapist?


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

laristotle said:


> Have you considered a therapist?


Been there, done that!~ Went for almost 2 years! 

Some people say, it's mind over matter and depending on the situation that can be quite true. There are sometimes where I can literally talk myself out an attack! There are times where things escalate into an absolutely morbid fear and that's when I can't turn it off! It's fight or flight!! 95% of the time it's flight!

Talking about it can be cathartic and other times it just escalates the situation into something that is beyond crazy!


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I've suffered anxiety all my life. Started when I was a teenager doing drugs. Now I'm drug phobic and wouldn't even take drugs to alleviate anxiety. I don't drink alcohol or take anything that changes the way I feel. Even the smell of Marijuana can make me anxious Even prescribed drugs that alter the way I feel can make my thoughts get carried a way causing a panic attack. I've battled with avoidance behavior all my life. Avoiding walking in open spaces, busy crowded places, etc. Its a lot better now in my mid 50's but I still have to keep my focus on not letting my mind get carried away with it.
I had lots of problems with waking in the middle of the night with horrible panic attacks. I have trained my self to talk my way through them for the most part and they don't affect my day to day life like they used to.
There were so many years of my life I felt like I was walking through a dream haze which is more known as dissociative disorder which is basically a defense mechanism against the stress but it would sometimes cause panic attacks as well. Being an obsessive compulsive doesn't help.
The biggest fear I had, especially before I understood this like I do now, is that whatever was happening to me would kill me. But after 39 years as a sufferer and so far still here I'm able to ride out the feelings of anxiety knowing that dying as a result is highly unlikely. This in it self helps to alleviate the severity of panic attacks.
Another thing that helped me was when I married my wife and was able to completely confide all these experiences with her. I was no longer suffering alone. She has always been very understanding works in a field where she deals with many of these traits. So I got lucky in that way.
I never went for therapy. I didn't even know what was wrong with me till I had access to the Internet and connected with others that had the exact same experiences as me. I literally thought that I was the only one going through something like this till that point. This also made me feel better that I wasn't alone.
Before that I would get very frustrated after many, many medical checkups and tests would come back negative. I'd always pass as healthy as a horse but I didn't feel that way.


----------



## skilsaw (Nov 4, 2014)

guitarman2 said:


> Another thing that helped me was when I married my wife and was able to completely confide all these experiences with her. I was no longer suffering alone. She has always been very understanding works in a field where she deals with many of these traits. So I got lucky in that way.
> I never went for therapy. .


Awesome, guitarman2. Family support is so important. Nothing beats a loving and compassionate spouse you can confide in.
You don't need a therapist if you are sleeping with the therapist. (Hope that comment didn't come out wrong)


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Thanks Guitarman2 for sharing with us! 

I hate running around because my anxiety has control of me. I hate feeling somewhat dizzy and I know I just have to leave, get out and I escape! Medication is my only source of relief! I have tried to go without but I can't! I went off of my medication for 4 days and ended up walking from morning until evening! I don't even know how many K I walked. I vowed I would never do that again. Meds for the rest of my life! 

Therapy helped me some but not the way I expected it to! I just try to avoid the triggers and carry on!


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

I hope the both of you find long-term inner peace. It must be very, very difficult for you.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Scotty said:


> I hope the both of you find long-term inner peace. It must be very, very difficult for you.


It can be a struggle at best! There are days from hell that I wish I didn't experience! Thanks Scotty for your kind words and support! It really means a lot!


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Lola said:


> Thanks Guitarman2 for sharing with us!
> 
> I hate running around because my anxiety has control of me. I hate feeling somewhat dizzy and I know I just have to leave, get out and I escape! Medication is my only source of relief! I have tried to go without but I can't! I went off of my medication for 4 days and ended up walking from morning until evening! I don't even know how many K I walked. I vowed I would never do that again. Meds for the rest of my life!
> 
> Therapy helped me some but not the way I expected it to! I just try to avoid the triggers and carry on!


Just a thought on going off your medication. If it is an SSRI that you are taking, it can be dangerous to go off of them cold turkey. It can actually be toxic and some people have died as a result. Those drugs can be a real help but caution needs to be exercised. There is a lot of information you can find on this on the internet. Here is just one.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/821737-overview


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Hey Steadfastly I am reading this article right now! I just got home from the hospital after a night from hell! It was really bad. I walked into the hospital, just freaking right out, emerg room crammed at 3:30 am and I couldn't even sit down to talk to the triage nurse. I paced the floors of a small square. People were looking at me like I was a drug addict or just plain crazy. I didn't care. I paced outside the hospital on the sidewalk with security guard. Yes, I was that looney tunes. I told the triage nurse I couldn't sit I had to pace. She asking me if I was a danger to myself. I said no! She told me to stay in this room and that's when they said I could walk outside with an assigned security guard. I see my GP tomorrow about maybe changing my meds. I got a shot of valium in my butt! Sweet relief!


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I hope today is a good one and I hope that article is informative to you. My wife is in the middle of coming off her SSRI and is taking several months to do so. So far, so good.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Hey Stead how long has your wife been on her SSRI's??


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Anxiety, depression, and panic attacks are unrelenting forces in my life. 

I'm yet to find any relief.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Do you take anything for it? I am totally sympathetic towards your plight! It takes every ounce of strength for me to carry on sometimes! I hate my life when I get hit with an panic attack! It's even worse when I have a had a severe migraine in tandem with a panic attack. I have had this happen a couple of times! 

BK what do you do when you get hit with an attack? I ask because maybe there is a coping mechanism that I am not using!


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Lola said:


> Do you take anything for it? I am totally sympathetic towards your plight! It takes every ounce of strength for me to carry on sometimes! I hate my life when I get hit with an panic attack!
> 
> BK what do you do when you get hit with an attack? I ask because maybe there is a coping mechanism that I am not using!


I have in the past, but nothing helped. I haven't taken anything in almost 15 years. 

I just have to wait it out when it's bad. I used to work out a lot until I had a knee injury.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Lola said:


> Hey Stead how long has your wife been on her SSRI's??


A long time. Probably 15 years. She has had myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME for short), since she was 14. The illness has a number of symptoms that are more pronounced in some who have it and less in others. Swelling of the brain is one and attacks on the nervous system is another. This causes "brain fog" which can last for days, weeks and one time, three months. The depression can be very bad for some at times, even with suicidal tendencies. The drugs have made a big difference in smoothing out the deep lows but there are side effects. We may have found something else that helps with the chemical imbalance that causes the depression and will give it a try. 

Thank you for asking.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Herb helps a lot.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Milkman said:


> Herb helps a lot.


I have cut back over 50% of my prescribed medication and have supplemented a natural product. It is designed to regulate the Estrogen, Progesterone and Testosterone balance. They can get out of whack, especially as we get older.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I have tried herbal products and it doesn't help me one bit! Melatonin for my insomnia for example! Passion flower, lemon balm and lavender for anxiety! They just don't seem to ease my symptoms at all! I can't risk a possible state of mental chaos due to the devastating effects of a panic attack! I wake up everyday wondering when will the next one be! The last couple of days have me living in absolute fear and terror. The only way to alleviate these symptoms is to be extremely busy from sun up to sun down and take my prescribed medications!


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

LOL,


I said herb, not herbs.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

LOL

There's herbs for the Colonel's secret recipe.............and then there's herb for the rest of us.




Lola said:


> I have tried herbal products and it doesn't help me one bit! *Melatonin for my insomnia for example!* Passion flower, lemon balm and lavender for anxiety! They just don't seem to ease my symptoms at all! I can't risk a possible state of mental chaos due to the devastating effects of a panic attack! I wake up everyday wondering when will the next one be! The last couple of days have me living in absolute fear and terror. The only way to alleviate these symptoms is to be extremely busy from sun up to sun down and take my prescribed medications!


I feel for you, Lola. Between the anxiety and the sleeplessness, you must go through hell (I just have to deal with the second one). 

For me, Melatonin works ....... if I stack it with a Halcyon and a couple oz's of singlemalt. Does that still make it homeopathic or whatever?


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Lola said:


> I have tried herbal products and it doesn't help me one bit! Melatonin for my insomnia for example! Passion flower, lemon balm and lavender for anxiety! They just don't seem to ease my symptoms at all! I can't risk a possible state of mental chaos due to the devastating effects of a panic attack! I wake up everyday wondering when will the next one be! The last couple of days have me living in absolute fear and terror. The only way to alleviate these symptoms is to be extremely busy from sun up to sun down and take my prescribed medications!


A friend of mine's son-in-law was having trouble sleeping and went to a medical marijuana place in TO and was set down in front of a TV monitor. A doctor came on the screen, asked him a few questions and prescribed a honey type substance right there on the spot. He bought it, went home and tried it and supposedly, it worked well. Not pushing drugs here but if not sleeping is ruining your life, this may be an option. Talk to your doctor.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

It's not something I talk about a ton, but I have battled with anxiety for a long time. I have had very good luck with a combination of 2 medications, Serequel and Gabapentin. Gabapentin was a medication used for nerve pain that is being used for anxiety treatment now, so it's not something a lot of doctors immediately go to or in some cases even know about. I had a friend ask his doctor about it after hearing how it's helped me, and it completely changed his life. This combination of meds I am on are the only meds of this type where I literally have no side effects that affect my lifestyle in any way. It's been amazing.

For the times the anxiety does creep in a bit due to heavy stress for example, I use Cannabis tincture. I also use it as a sleep aid. It basically does what Ativan used to do for attacks, but works much better. Using tincture and smoking marijuana are 2 completely different effects.

Most importantly though, my lifestyle has been geared towards fighting anxiety. I work out and do yoga every day of the week. I jog in the summer. I eat well. I think all of this stuff is essential.


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

torndownunit said:


> For the times the anxiety does creep in a bit due to heavy stress for example, I use Cannabis tincture. I also use it as a sleep aid. It basically does what Ativan used to do for attacks, but works much better. Using tincture and smoking marijuana are 2 completely different effects.


I'm not sure if the honey type substance I mentioned in my previous post is tincture but my friends son-in-law said he put's 1 drop under his tongue before he goes to bed.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Guitar101 said:


> I'm not sure if the gold liquid I mentioned in my previous post is tincture but my friends son-in-law said he put's 1 drop under his tongue before he goes to bed.


He could have Cannabis oil or tincture. I find the tinctures to be not quite as potent. I have had oil where a drop of it was REALLY strong.

As with smoking marijuana, oils/tinctures made from different strains have different effects. I even have a high CBD low THC tincture for pain relief that doesn't really get me high in the slightest, it just works really well for relaxing my muscles and killing pain. Even my other tinctures don't get me really high unless I take enough to specifically do that. They are very medicinal. I can work, I can go to the gym, I can do whatever I would normally do. I just feel better.

I am not really a weed smoker at all nowadays. But I will say editables and oils have greatly improved the quality of my life.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Guitar101 said:


> A friend of mine's son-in-law was having trouble sleeping and went to a medical marijuana place in TO and was set down in front of a TV monitor. A doctor came on the screen, asked him a few questions and prescribed a honey type substance right there on the spot. He bought it, went home and tried it and supposedly, it worked well. Not pushing drugs here but if not sleeping is ruining your life, this may be an option. Talk to your doctor.


I have canna butter cookies! I am relaxed and I do sleep well on them. The chemical reaction in your brain releases dopamine which is a feel good neurotransmitter! It can make the user feel very relaxed and calm. This is exactly what it does to me! No stress and no worry! I can function normally on it. The only side effect is that it makes me feel somewhat lethargic until the next afternoon! For what the cookie does the downside is nothing! I think I would actually have to decrease the dosage to maybe, a 1/3 of a cookie would effect me! It's so nice to be in a very relaxed state of mind!


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Lola said:


> I have canna butter cookies! I am relaxed and I do sleep well on them. The chemical reaction in your brain releases dopamine which is a feel good neurotransmitter! It can make the user feel very relaxed and calm. This is exactly what it does to me! No stress and no worry! I can function normally on it. The only side effect is that it makes me feel somewhat lethargic until the next afternoon! For what the cookie does the downside is nothing! I think I would actually have to decrease the dosage to maybe, a 1/3 of a cookie would effect me! It's so nice to be in a very relaxed state of mind!


This is the main reason tincture is so good. You are able to figure out a 'dose' that works for you very easily. Also, if the cookies are making you too lethargic it could be due to the strain/type of weed the butter is made from. You may want something made from a sativa/indiga hybrid. I get along better with sativas or hybrids it seems. Indigas give me too much of a 'mind high' and make me way too tired. They are only good for sleeping for me generally, not for using to treat anxiety while still staying functional.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Have you ever been told, "it's all in your head"? I am somewhat a prisoner of my own mind! I really cannot change my thinking processes once a panic attack starts! Someone who doesn't even really know me said it's not my medication I should change but my mindset! 

The chemical domino effect that happens to your whole body while in the throws of a panic attack are incredible! Your body reverts to basic instincts of survival!


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Lola said:


> Have you ever been told, "it's all in your head"? I am somewhat a prisoner of my own mind! I really cannot change my thinking processes once a panic attack starts! Someone who doesn't even really know me said it's not my medication I should change but my mindset!
> 
> The chemical domino effect that happens to your whole body while in the throws of a panic attack are incredible! Your body reverts to basic instincts of survival!


Have you tried cognitive therapy? That's basically what it's entirely geared towards. Altering the though patterns that lead up to a panic attack. There is an amazing book called Mind Over Mood. If you go to a therapist, it's basically the first thing they will get you to try. It's a workbook that you go through. On a more basic level, even keeping a journal is massively helpful. It helps you identify thought patterns or causes of stress.

It's not that it's 'all in your head' obviously. But, you definitely can combat panic attacks by learning to adjust your thought patterns. Every therapist I have seen recommended yoga and meditation as well. 

Dealing with severe anxiety requires adjusting your lifestyle to fight it basically. I don't even really drink anymore because the day after drinking I found I would be anxious. I work out every day even if it's the last thing I want to do. I have a pre-sleep routine to make sure I get enough sleep because that's a massive trigger for me. It's been about a year since I had a panic attack, and it took a lot of hard work to get there. The medications did their thing, but I also had to work my ass off to deal with the root problems not just patch them with the medications.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

torndownunit said:


> This is the main reason tincture is so good. You are able to figure out a 'dose' that works for you very easily. Also, if the cookies are making you too lethargic it could be due to the strain/type of weed the butter is made from. You may want something made from a sativa/indiga hybrid. I get along better with sativas or hybrids it seems. Indigas give me too much of a 'mind high' and make me way too tired. They are only good for sleeping for me generally, not for using to treat anxiety while still staying functional.


Sativa is much better for day to day dealing with stuff (nausea, in my case). But VERY hard to find on the street. Street weed is bred for head-stone, thus the vast majority of it is indica (indica is absolutely the heavier, 'trippier' of the two). Even hybrids are uncommon. A good medicinal marijuana shop should be able to steer you towards sative-dominant strains, or pure sativas. But you won't find them at Dave's house down the street.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> Sativa is much better for day to day dealing with stuff (nausea, in my case). But VERY hard to find on the street. Street weed is bred for head-stone, thus the vast majority of it is indica (indica is absolutely the heavier, 'trippier' of the two). Even hybrids are uncommon. A good medicinal marijuana shop should be able to steer you towards sative-dominant strains, or pure sativas. But you won't find them at Dave's house down the street.


That's why you order online lol. Been doing it for years.


----------

