# Speaker swap in 65 DRRI?



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I'm finding the tone isn't fully to my liking with any of guitars really. I was thinking that maybe a speaker swap might help how it sounds. I have almost zero experience with aftermarket speakers except for a few. I assume the amp is 8ohm and I have one other 8ohm speaker. I have 2 different 16ohm as well. I have my 8ohm G12C-125, 16ohm V30 and a 16ohm C-rex. If a 16ohm was put into the amp, would that make the amp work to hard to produce volume? It's bedroom level, so high volume isn't a worry. I just don't want to damage the amp. I've read in plenty of google searches of people "cutting the cap" to get rid of the ice pickiness, but I am not sure I want to start mucking with it unless it can be reversed easily. 

If a new speaker could help, what speakers have you guys used with this amp? 

I tend to play clean mostly, then maybe a little OD but not anything really heavy.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Snipping the bright cap is extremely easy and quickly reversible. Do you prefer the tone on the normal channel? If yes then the bright cap mod is likely the way to go. The hardest part about doing this is taking it apart to get at the circuit board.

Alternately i have an 8 ohm C-Rex here if you want to go that route.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

You really shouldn’t need to do anything to a DRRI if it’s working properly. A ZILLION people have no problem getting a great tone out of one. It may be time to consider that all this is just your imagination.

Turn knobs, adjust pickups maybe but for heavens sake, leave the amp alone.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

davetcan said:


> Snipping the bright cap is extremely easy and quickly reversible. Do you prefer the tone on the normal channel? If yes then the bright cap mod is likely the way to go. The hardest part about doing this is taking it apart to get at the circuit board.[/MEDIA]


This is truly worth doing if you use the Vibrato channel. Just snip (or better yet desolder) one leg and leave the cap in place so that if you want to put it back at some point you can without having to find the cap. This is especially crucial if you're playing at lower volumes.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

there Are definitely some great mods that can be done with that. I know dr Dan out here does a great mod that makes the drri sound much better.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> You really shouldn’t need to do anything to a DRRI if it’s working properly. A ZILLION people have no problem getting a great tone out of one. It may be time to consider that all this is just your imagination.
> 
> Turn knobs, adjust pickups maybe but for heavens sake, leave the amp alone.


LOL, this is true, but i still do it  I find that the vibrato channel adds a certain brittleness, or fizz, when using dirt pedals. The normal channel sounds great with pedals. So I snip the cap and problem solved. We all have different ears though


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

davetcan said:


> I find that the vibrato channel adds a certain brittleness, or fizz, when using dirt pedals.


Same. Even without dirt pedals they can sound a bit thin at lower volumes.


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

Back to the speaker question, and this may be a bit off topic but interestingly I have 3 DRRI's at the moment and just last weekend I A/B/C'd them to see which 2 needed to go. Here's the rundown:

1. '17 LE (the burgundy/wheat one) with a stock Jensen 12PQ AlNiCo
2. '13 with a Weber 12F150 (Weber's recommended speaker for this amp)
3. '06 with a Jensen C12K (Ceramic)

Other factors such as tubes etc notwithstanding, take a guess which amp sounds better than the other two by a mile?


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

There's also a mod that allows reverb on both channels, so you can have the 'cap clipped' sound on Normal channel and the 'cap in' sound on Vibrato channel (assuming you don't want to use Normal because of lack of reverb). Worth noting, too, that the cap is bypassed once you get to around 5 or 6 on the Vib volume control.

As far as speaker swaps go, you can't hurt a DRRI unless you really try. Unless you're playing it really loud, like 8 or 9, a 16 ohm speaker won't hurt the amp in the least. You might lose a dB or two of volume, but you won't miss it anywhere but on a really loud stage with a really loud drummer. Speakers are probably the single biggest change to an amp's tone that can be easily (and reversibly) made, so go for it. Pretty simple if you have slide-on connectors on the amp's speaker cable - you won't even need to heat up your soldering iron.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Swervin55 said:


> ....take a guess which amp sounds better than the other two by a mile?


This one?


Swervin55 said:


> 1. '17 LE (the burgundy/wheat one) with a stock Jensen 12PQ AlNiCo


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Swervin55 said:


> Back to the speaker question, and this may be a bit off topic but interestingly I have 3 DRRI's at the moment and just last weekend I A/B/C'd them to see which 2 needed to go. Here's the rundown:
> 
> 1. '17 LE (the burgundy/wheat one) with a stock Jensen 12PQ AlNiCo
> 2. '13 with a Weber 12F150 (Weber's recommended speaker for this amp)
> ...


My guess would be the AlNiCo... but I'm probably way off and it's the C12K (which is not a speaker I've liked).


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

greco said:


> This one?


That would be my first choice too but it's actually number 3 ('06 with the Jensen ceramic). I lied a bit; number 1. was a reasonably close second but the one with the Weber a distant 3rd.


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## JeremyP (Jan 10, 2012)

I agree 100% with Davetcan. I always had to snip that bright cap, I found that pedals sounded horrible until I did the bright cap mod. My dirt pedals all sounded brittle. That said even after I did the bright cap mod the Deluxe wasnt for me. I prefer the headroom and super clean tones of the twin.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

I'm with JB and Dave on this one. If you can't bond with it, maybe it's not the amp for you. I haven't done any mods on mine and I've been gigging with it for over 10 years now.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

Swervin55 said:


> '13 with a Weber 12F150 (Weber's recommended speaker for this amp)


I have a DRRI who's previous owner put in a Weber ceramic speaker in it (I presume the 12F150?) that I like quite a lot. Like others, I don't like the bright cap on the Vibrato channel, so I use the normal channel. @Swervin55 Which channel did you use with your A/B/C comparison?

If you want the speaker to reduce your volume with a speaker, I would recommend finding an inefficient speaker rather than mismatching the ohm rating.


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

[QUOTE="troyhead, post: 2619508]Which channel did you use with your A/B/C comparison?/QUOTE]

Channel 2 (Vibrato/Reverb) in all cases.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

davetcan said:


> LOL, this is true, but i still do it  I find that the vibrato channel adds a certain brittleness, or fizz, when using dirt pedals. The normal channel sounds great with pedals. So I snip the cap and problem solved. We all have different ears though


I did a mod that left the bright cap in place but jumpered the reverb and tremolo to the Normal channel so it's there on both. I can choose whether or not I want the extra brightness but always have the effects available. I always use the Normal channel BTW. Seeing that the original question was about speakers, I have a Celestion G12H30 in mine that sounds great.

I would do something about the bright cap if you're playing at bedroom volumes as that's when it's most prominent.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I generally use the vibrato channel most often, and I have to run the volume down around 2. Ch1 I can run it around 3.5 without it being overly loud. It's a shame the vib channel can't be turned a little higher without being too loud. Maybe the bright cap has something to do with what I am hearing. I didn't want to go crazy modding it in case I were to sell it down the road. I can change speakers and do small soldering jobs, but not rewiring or changing circuitry if that is the case with any mods suggested. I"ll look up the bright cap and maybe desolder one leg in case I don't end up liking that outcome. I will play with the B/T settings and see if I can bring in a sound more to my liking. I do find it kind of "muffled" when I use the neck pup on the Epi LP. Maybe that is just the guitar itself.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

"in case..." it's gonna be gone by the fall .

Odds are the neck pickup on said LP is way too high - lower it a little and see what you think.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

@Budda .... I can't seem to find the middle finger emoji at the moment. HAHAHA.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

If it helps, mine appears to be a 1990 by the serial number search I did. It has a Jensen in it. Not sure what model, other than what is on the sticker.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

How many hours do you have on it? It took some time for mine to break in. Could just be me, but I think 100+ hours.

My only problem with my DRRI, was the same as my vintage one. Too loud. I used a TS9 as an always on effect, tone shaping more than dirt.

C


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I'm not the original owner, and being 1990 (ish) I am assuming it has quite a number of hours on it.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

Verne said:


> I'm not the original owner, and being 1990 (ish) I am assuming it has quite a number of hours on it.


Anything is possible with used gear. I would wait until _you_ have at least a 100 on it.

C


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## Jim Jones (Sep 18, 2006)

A guy I play with put a Cannabis Rex in his DRRI and it sounded great. I’ve yet to hear a modern Jensen I like.

I should mention he also used a plug in SS rectifier and 6L6’s. It sounded great until the heater winding cooked and I had to replace the power transformer...


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I also just remembered that I have a matched pair of JJ 6V6 tubes. A certain member handed them to me one evening at a Tim's. Anyway, will putting the JJ tubes in make an audible difference over the likely stock GT tubes? I have also decided this weekend I am going to desolder the bright cap and see where I end up.

I also have an ECC81 (also JJ) I could put in V2 to help bring the volume down to turn it up and work the tubes a little more.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Weren't they other GT's? Either way, you have everything on hand - I would say experiment away.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Hmmmmmmmmm. Maybe. Maybe I swapped them into an amp and had these already. Now I am wondering. This is the first amp I've had (have) that takes 6V6. It always seems to be 6L6, EL84 or EL34 in mine.

I've just been reading that the 5751 is better than the 12AT7. I hadn't even heard of this tube until now. I'm still going to try the ECC81 in V2 (maybe even V1) and the JJ 6V6. Sounds like a fun weekend ahead.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Verne said:


> It has a Jensen in it. Not sure what model, other than what is on the sticker.


Jensens usually have the model ink stamped on the rim of the frame.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

allthumbs56 said:


> I did a mod that left the bright cap in place but jumpered the reverb and tremolo to the Normal channel so it's there on both. I can choose whether or not I want the extra brightness but always have the effects available. I always use the Normal channel BTW. Seeing that the original question was about speakers, I have a Celestion G12H30 in mine that sounds great.
> 
> I would do something about the bright cap if you're playing at bedroom volumes as that's when it's most prominent.



My amp guy recommended the G12H30 for my Blues Junior after he modded it. Old G12T-75 in it for the stuff I'm doing now, but I've swapped that and the Jensen P12R Vintage voiced that came with it too many times now. @Verne , sorry if I missed it, but what sound are you after? When I want to get heavy I run the Fender with the G12T and the Blackstar with the V30's. It IS possible to get a Marshall tone out of a Fender. Just with a speaker change. Tubes are good too. They help a lot.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I do have a Cel G12C-125 speaker mounted in a 1x12 cab. It’s an 8 ohm. Suppose I could mount it and see. May as well try what I have and see. Good thing this fun. Hahaha.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

It becomes a "need". You seem to be doing well in your journey.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

Verne said:


> Hmmmmmmmmm. Maybe. Maybe I swapped them into an amp and had these already. Now I am wondering. This is the first amp I've had (have) that takes 6V6. It always seems to be 6L6, EL84 or EL34 in mine.
> I've just been reading that the 5751 is better than the 12AT7. I hadn't even heard of this tube until now. I'm still going to try the ECC81 in V2 (maybe even V1) and the JJ 6V6. Sounds like a fun weekend ahead.


IM a total believer in the 5751. Have one in every tube amp I own.
I tried the 12AT7 once in my Super Reverb and it was so weak, it suck the living tone out of my amp. Experiment lasted 5 minutes an it was obvious to me it was not a good idea.

By the way , the 5751 has 75% of the power of a 12AX7.
The 12AT7 has 60% of the 12AX7
While I'm at it,
The 12AY7 has 45% of the 12AX7
and last but not least, the 12AU7 has 20% of the 12AX7 power

hope this helps a bit
G.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)




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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Just remember the one hand rule.



Verne said:


> I also just remembered that I have a matched pair of JJ 6V6 tubes. A certain member handed them to me one evening at a Tim's. Anyway, will putting the JJ tubes in make an audible difference over the likely stock GT tubes? I have also decided this weekend I am going to desolder the bright cap and see where I end up.
> 
> I also have an ECC81 (also JJ) I could put in V2 to help bring the volume down to turn it up and work the tubes a little more.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I think with the tubes you can't just rely on the gain factor differences in numbers. As GTmaker mentioned, the AT7 sound weak and thin. When I was going through the tube learning curve it appears that the AT7 is not recommended as a 1st (V1) gain stage preamp tube. The phrase used was that it won't sound "musical". Probably has to do with the harmonics generated by the gain factor at 60%, but I wouldn't know. I tried the AT7 in V3 which is a common use and I didn't like the way it made the amp respond neither. But it's a friggin rabbit hole so be careful.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I am already down that rabbit hole and looking tunnels. HAHA

Curiosity doesn't only kill cats..............


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

For those that find the DRRI too loud, I think the best, easiest solutions is an Eminence FDM speaker, with an adjustable 'efficiency' from 100dB to 91 dB. It's like a 9dB attenuator built in to the amp, or like being able to adjust it from 22W to about 3W. It won't allow you to play the amp cranked while watching TV but it does what it's supposed to do. And being open back, it is a good amp for that speaker.

I put a Maverick in mine and it was the best improvement I've made to make the amp more universally useful (I set volume to around 4 or 5 and then adjust the speaker for the correct level). And all the mod took was a screwdriver and a couple beer.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I had the Reignmaker. Eminence even warrantied a defective one that was older. I played both and never bonded with the overall sound. Turning the dial definitely helped volume, and the tonality of the speaker. I guess it might have been different if that speaker was mounted in a more capable amp.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

Dorian2 said:


> I think with the tubes you can't just rely on the gain factor differences in numbers. As GTmaker mentioned, the AT7 sound weak and thin. When I was going through the tube learning curve it appears that the AT7 is not recommended as a 1st (V1) gain stage preamp tube. The phrase used was that it won't sound "musical". Probably has to do with the harmonics generated by the gain factor at 60%, but I wouldn't know. I tried the AT7 in V3 which is a common use and I didn't like the way it made the amp respond neither. But it's a friggin rabbit hole so be careful.


I know all tubes and amps are different so YMMV. However, I found a lot of it has to do with how you run the DR. I had an AT7 as the first tube signal saw in my DRRI and it effectively raises your clean headroom. Great if you are running at full club volume and have a couple cleanish ODs and a compressor. Not so great for a home player volumes. I tried this for a while when I learned Trey Anastasio did it in his DRs. That setup is the secret to tunes with infinite sustain, i.e. Divided Sky.

For less clean headroom, i.e. basement volumes where you want some breakup, swap your 12AT7 Phase Inverter for a 12AX7. However, it will change the tone of your amp. Again, YMMV. Cant stress that enough. lol. Be careful.

Now I have a 68 PRRI and am happier all around.

C


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> For those that find the DRRI too loud, I think the best, easiest solution .............


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

davetcan said:


>


That works, too. But I far prefer the DRRI's sound at 4 or 5 on the volume dial more than at 1 or less. So my preference is to run the amp at the hotter level and then attenuate the signal after the power section. The FDM speaker is an easy way of doing that. Different horses for different courses.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

My bad, I was thinking of putting it in the loop of a HRD  Duh!


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Jim Jones said:


> A guy I play with put a Cannabis Rex in his DRRI and it sounded great. I’ve yet to hear a modern Jensen I like.


+1 on both counts. 

Also worthy of consideration is a G12M25 which won’t be as shrill as the modern Jensen & should let you get into the sweet spot without blasting your ear drums.


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## Joel Poirier (Dec 5, 2019)

High/Deaf said:


> For those that find the DRRI too loud, I think the best, easiest solutions is an Eminence FDM speaker, with an adjustable 'efficiency' from 100dB to 91 dB. It's like a 9dB attenuator built in to the amp, or like being able to adjust it from 22W to about 3W. It won't allow you to play the amp cranked while watching TV but it does what it's supposed to do. And being open back, it is a good amp for that speaker.
> 
> I put a Maverick in mine and it was the best improvement I've made to make the amp more universally useful (I set volume to around 4 or 5 and then adjust the speaker for the correct level). And all the mod took was a screwdriver and a couple beer.


Been considering one of those myself but never did the plunge since I never actually been able to listen to one.
How do you like the tone of yours ?
What speaker would you compare it to ?
Thanks


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Joel Poirier said:


> Been considering one of those myself but never did the plunge since I never actually been able to listen to one.
> How do you like the tone of yours ?
> What speaker would you compare it to ?
> Thanks


The Maverick is similar to the ceramic Jensen the amp came with. The tone changes a bit as the FDM knob is turned, and our perception of tonal balance also changes as levels change (Fletcher-Munson). Add to that the fact that our sonic memory is fairly short (way shorter than it takes to swap a driver), so if you don't have a stock DRRI to compare back-to-back with a FDM-equipped DRRI (and I don't), more accurate comparisons are difficult to make.

But I (and many others) have found the Mav to be a good match for the DRRI. If you're looking for 9dB of attenuation, you can do much worse for the dollars spent, IMO.


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## Joel Poirier (Dec 5, 2019)

High/Deaf said:


> The Maverick is similar to the ceramic Jensen the amp came with. The tone changes a bit as the FDM knob is turned, and our perception of tonal balance also changes as levels change (Fletcher-Munson). Add to that the fact that our sonic memory is fairly short (way shorter than it takes to swap a driver), so if you don't have a stock DRRI to compare back-to-back with a FDM-equipped DRRI (and I don't), more accurate comparisons are difficult to make.
> 
> But I (and many others) have found the Mav to be a good match for the DRRI. If you're looking for 9dB of attenuation, you can do much worse for the dollars spent, IMO.


If it sounds close to the stock Jensen it shouldn’t be too bad. 
Will try to score one used to give it a try. 
Thanks for the infos 

cheers


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

Speaker swaps are common in these amps. I've had good success with Jensen Alnico's, C_Rex, and Weber 150's. All things being equal though the best way to make that amp sound good is to get the volume up above 3. The bright cap is a mute point once the amp gets into it's intended use scenario...

I know, I know, volume/family/neighbours/club owners/church yada yada....


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

8


TimH said:


> Speaker swaps are common in these amps. I've had good success with Jensen Alnico's, C_Rex, and Weber 150's. All things being equal though the best way to make that amp sound good is to get the volume up above 3. The bright cap is a mute point once the amp gets into it's intended use scenario...
> 
> I know, I know, volume/family/neighbours/club owners/church yada yada....


I agree. The amp comes alive at 3 and above. Thus my love for the FDM tech. '3' through a [email protected]*1m speaker is a lot easier to take than '3' through a [email protected]*1m speaker. Still not quite TV volumes, but closer.

Celestion A-series have been popular in DRRI's as well.


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

If you can't run this amp with the stock speaker at 3-4 I'd strongly encourage looking into a 5w amp in the same tonal ballpark. The Tone King Gremlin is GREAT for this, as are offerings from Swart, Victoria and others. I know there are other small BF type amps I'm forgetting as well...


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## Shaqrad (May 6, 2020)

RBlakeney said:


> there Are definitely some great mods that can be done with that. I know dr Dan out here does a great mod that makes the drri sound much better.


Any idea which mods Dan does that improves the sound?


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Shaqrad said:


> Any idea which mods Dan does that improves the sound?


I don’t know off hand. I can direct him to this thread.


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## Shaqrad (May 6, 2020)

RBlakeney said:


> I don’t know off hand. I can direct him to this thread.


I have a stock DRRI and I do find there is "ice pickiness" with my pedals, especially with the vibrato channel. I play mostly at bedroom volumes. I have considered changing the speaker at a time and now I am on the removing the bright cap discussion.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Shaqrad said:


> I have a stock DRRI and I do find there is "ice pickiness" with my pedals, especially with the vibrato channel. I play mostly at bedroom volumes. I have considered changing the speaker at a time and now I am on the removing the bright cap discussion.


He definitely does a bit more than that, and kind of takes it back to vintage specs I believe. But from when I had a drri I would agree about the bright cap on the vib channel, I didn’t like how it took drive pedals. I ended up selling mine and I have a 66 deluxe now.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Shaqrad said:


> I have a stock DRRI and I do find there is "ice pickiness" with my pedals, especially with the vibrato channel. I play mostly at bedroom volumes. I have considered changing the speaker at a time and now I am on the removing the bright cap discussion.











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