# Common Courtesy in For Sale Threads



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I realize that we already have rules and guidelines in place, but sometimes certain actions come to light that need addressing - simply to better the forum/sale section experience.

Before I go into brief detail, here's a lengthy preface (not mhammer lengthy, so don't go anywhere): I want to make it clear that there is no animosity toward the forumite and I'm not upset; I'm just calling 'dirty pool' on the behaviour in hopes I can prevent it from happening to others. (I realize that some people might not care and it's not a rule, so it's fair game - well, to you I say, "you're weird")

Yes, I realize I've built this up into something seemingly drastic like 'not raping a forum member you meet in person' even if it is chitmo, but it's not that bad. But, what's a forum without a little drama? Still, I did lose a potential sale worth over $1K, and I think it's safe to assume most people would be pretty pissed.

Also note that I was going to pm the member and call him out privately and politely, but I prefer everyone to know and to do this _after_ a pm is kinda uncool, imo. I'll leave the guy anonymous - so all of you avid texters - don't text me  ... I'm saying that knowing full well I'm about to get 'woofed'

(



)

Anyway,

If someone posts an FS thread and potential buyer posts within the thread mentioning they have interest and would like to be contacted via pm and email to get more information, DON'T squeeze in a quick pm and try to poach the sale. Like I said - dirty pool. 

Post your own for sale ad or chase a WTB ad, but don't be a money-hungry pecker (RIP Bluzfish).

If there's other foul play that you guys have experienced, maybe let us all know, so we can learn the unlearned. 

Enjoy this picture of my puppy to help remove the stress of this post:












Tags: les paul, vintage, marshall, tits, Gibson, Fender, Mesa Boogie, telecaster, stratocaster,


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

i'm not sorry and i'll do it again


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## _Knighthawk_ (Mar 2, 2014)

uh-oh, I think we need another puppy picture...


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

My beef is folks who bump every day when the rules say once a week. I stick to that. I`m a bit tired of seeing the same guitars every day on the FS page.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

_Knighthawk_ said:


> uh-oh, I think we need another puppy picture...


If that's your dog, you better pray I don't find out where you live. I steal goldies.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

capnjim said:


> My beef is folks who bump every day when the rules say once a week. I stick to that. I`m a bit tired of seeing the same guitars every day on the FS page.


I think those guys just haven't read the rules and don't mean harm. I think most forums allow a daily post.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

vadsy said:


> i'm not sorry and i'll do it again


Shit, I hate confrontation.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

adcandour said:


> Shit, I hate confrontation.


i didn't know there would be confrontation,,.. you got me all wrong,,. lets all take a deep breath and think about this for a minute


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Me & puppy.
I hear you Ad.


Sent from my other brain.


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2017)

vadsy said:


> lets all take a deep breath and think about this for a minute


cue the guitar


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## _Knighthawk_ (Mar 2, 2014)

I want a pair of those pants...


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Business said:


> Huh?


Don't try and solicit a sale in someones else's 'FS' post.


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## _Knighthawk_ (Mar 2, 2014)

adcandour said:


> If that's your dog, you better pray I don't find out where you live. I steal goldies.




No. My Roxie is cuter.


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

vadsy said:


> Don't try and solicit a sale in someones else's 'FS' post.


There's a difference between:

A: Hey I've got the same item and I'll sell it to you for 50$ cheaper

B: Hey, I saw you were interested in X item; let me know if your deal doesn't work out as I have the same item I could sell


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Business said:


> There's a difference between:
> 
> A: Hey I've got the same item and I'll sell it to you for 50$ cheaper
> 
> B: Hey, I saw you were interested in X item; let me know if your deal doesn't work out as I have the same item I could sell


If you're pulling that stuff in someone else's FS thread its pretty damn near identical. Start your own thread.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

ignore - I thought you meant poaching a purchase


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

vadsy said:


> If you're pulling that stuff in someone else's FS thread its pretty damn near identical. Start your own thread.


I meant via PM, as implied in the original post


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Business said:


> I meant via PM, as implied in the original post


Still shady. Sorry, I don't agree with it.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Alex said:


> You stated "If someone posts an FS thread and potential buyer posts within the thread mentioning they have interest and would like to be contacted via pm and email to get more information, DON'T squeeze in a quick pm and try to poach the sale. Like I said - dirty pool."
> 
> I'm not following - If someone states "i'll take it" perhaps, but if it is available then it is fine to contact the seller. The seller can make the call of who came in first if he/she wishes but the potential buyer "having an interest" doesn't guarantee a sale.


I think I worded it confusingly...

Say I'm selling a guitar and you say (in the thread) - "hey, I've been looking for that guitar, please pm me with pics, so we can get this done"...and then another forumite pms the interested guy...that's not kosher. I also believe in first come, first serve.


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

vadsy said:


> Still shady. Sorry, I don't agree with it.


I'd personally wait until the seller bumps or says "PMs replied" to approach the buyer, but I wouldn't have a problem with the "B" Situation


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Business said:


> I'd personally wait until the seller bumps or says "PMs replied" to approach the buyer, but I wouldn't have a problem with the "B" Situation


That'd be totally fine, imo. I do have a problem with fishing for a sale prior to that though.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

capnjim said:


> My beef is folks who bump every day when the rules say once a week. I stick to that. I`m a bit tired of seeing the same guitars every day on the FS page.


Rule 14 says every few days.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

adcandour said:


> I think I worded it confusingly...
> 
> Say I'm selling a guitar and you say (in the thread) - "hey, I've been looking for that guitar, please pm me with pics, so we can get this done"...and then another forumite pms the interested guy...that's not kosher. I also believe in first come, first serve.


My mistake, I thought you were referring to the poaching of a purchase. The poaching of a sale is a bit grey - I don't do that but won't complain if I'm the potential buyer. I think proper etiquette should be all communication via PM. It keeps the ads clean as well.


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

Speaking of morally ambiguous situations, how about this one?

You see your GC buddy replying to a FS thread saying he's interested. You then contact him because you've seen the same item for sale cheaper on his local kijiji (or craigslist or whatever). So you cost the seller a sale, but you save your buddy some money. Is that wrong?


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## _Knighthawk_ (Mar 2, 2014)

Of course, then I would have to get the boots too and they don't look all that comfy to me.


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## CheopisIV (Jan 27, 2016)

adcandour said:


> ... raping a forum member you meet in person...


It ain't rape if you's all agreein'! An by agreein I mean showin up. 















Wanna get a donut


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Business said:


> Speaking of morally ambiguous situations, how about this one?
> 
> You see your GC buddy replying to a FS thread saying he's interested. You then contact him because you've seen the same item for sale cheaper on his local kijiji (or craigslist or whatever). So you cost the seller a sale, but you save your buddy some money. Is that wrong?


If you've already committed to a sale for the expensive one, then flaking out isn't cool, but if you're dealing with a good guy, you could approach him with the scenario and see what he makes of it.

I'm a 'my word' is 'my word' kinda guy - even if I take a hit.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

CheopisIV said:


> It ain't rape if you's all agreein'! An by agreein I mean showin up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

CheopisIV said:


> It ain't rape if you's all agreein'! An by agreein I mean showin up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



- and no, I don't wanna get a donut.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

adcandour said:


> If you've already committed to a sale for the expensive one, then flaking out isn't cool, but if you're dealing with a good guy, you could approach him with the scenario and see what he makes of it.
> 
> I'm a 'my word' is 'my word' kinda guy - even if I take a hit.


There's a big difference in stating "I'm interested" and "i'll take it". I agree, word is everything.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

adcandour said:


> I realize that we already have rules and guidelines in place, but sometimes certain actions come to light that need addressing - simply to better the forum/sale section experience.
> 
> Before I go into brief detail, here's a lengthy preface (not mhammer lengthy, so don't go anywhere): I want to make it clear that there is no animosity toward the forumite and I'm not upset; I'm just calling 'dirty pool' on the behaviour in hopes I can prevent it from happening to others. (I realize that some people might not care and it's not a rule, so it's fair game - well, to you I say, "you're weird")
> 
> ...


I'm confused, why are we using my name and rape and in the same sentence?


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

Wow..I was sure it was a week. Oh well....I guess you can expect to see my FS ads every few days.
Carry on, sorry for the disruption.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Chitmo said:


> I'm confused, why are we using my name and rape and in the same sentence?


typo, I meant to say Chito...but if he pipes up, then I meant to say chimo.


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

Wow..I was sure it was a week. Oh well....I guess you can expect to see my FS ads every few days.
Carry on, sorry for the disruption.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

capnjim said:


> Wow..I was sure it was a week. Oh well....I guess you can expect to see my FS ads every few days.
> Carry on, sorry for the disruption.


I actually took the time to read them, because I didn't want to step on any toes when I made my first couple of FS threads. I do confess to being a bit of an overzealous thread-bumper, but that's because I end up spending a lot of time on this forum lately, so it feels like a long time since my previous bump. I'll try to keep it to the rules in the future as I see I've been a bit too frequent for the rules.


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## grumpyoldman (Jan 31, 2010)

I would just like to state, for the record, that I have never kidnapped anyone, or anything, nor do I ever plan to do so in the future (it just isn't my style).

John
thegrumpyoldman


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## stever67 (Jun 30, 2008)

May I add, in this thread ;-) that it's also as annoying as hell when someone makes an offer on you FS or FT thread, publicly or through PM, you accept the offer, and they say "Ok, let me think about it" or some horse$#%t, then bail. I understand there are extenuating circumstances, but that's been happening a lot on here (to me, anyway) lately... make an offer when you're ready, or make it clear when you enquire what your intentions are. "Would you be interested in... if so then I'm in" or "I'll see if I can get it done, then". Talking with a few forumites, I'm not alone in this.

Sorry if I hijacked the thread here - seemed along the same lines... ;-)


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

stever67 said:


> May I add, in this thread ;-) that it's also as annoying as hell when someone makes an offer on you FS or FT thread, publicly or through PM, you accept the offer, and they say "Ok, let me think about it" or some horse$#%t, then bail. I understand there are extenuating circumstances, but that's been happening a lot on here (to me, anyway) lately... make an offer when you're ready, or make it clear when you enquire what your intentions are. "Would you be interested in... if so then I'm in" or "I'll see if I can get it done, then". Talking with a few forumites, I'm not alone in this.
> 
> Sorry if I hijacked the thread here - seemed along the same lines... ;-)


No hijack, that's totally in line.

I've had people say, "if you still got it, I'll buy it"....and _then_ start asking questions they should already know the answer to.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2017)

CheopisIV said:


> It ain't rape if you's all agreein'! An by agreein I mean showin up.





adcandour said:


> - and no, I don't wanna get a donut.


This is now giving me second thoughts to meeting up at a Timmies.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

stever67 said:


> May I add, in this thread ;-) that it's also as annoying as hell when someone makes an offer on you FS or FT thread, publicly or through PM, you accept the offer, and they say "Ok, let me think about it" or some horse$#%t, then bail. I understand there are extenuating circumstances, but that's been happening a lot on here (to me, anyway) lately... make an offer when you're ready, or make it clear when you enquire what your intentions are. "Would you be interested in... if so then I'm in" or "I'll see if I can get it done, then". Talking with a few forumites, I'm not alone in this.
> 
> Sorry if I hijacked the thread here - seemed along the same lines... ;-)



+1. A member here has _twice_ proposed the same trade for a guitar of mine and then simply ghosted both times after I accepted. They followed up with a cash offer which, again was accepted, and they've not been heard from since. ZERO chance now of ever responding again to that time wasting idiot...


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I've had 2 "I'll take it, send me your EMT address" and then I never heard from the person again, same guy both times. I just won't respond the next time.


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## Fox Rox (Aug 9, 2009)

I have had the same thing happen as davetcan. Someone explicitly agreed to buy something I had posted for my asking price and asked me for my email address so they could send the money via EMT to me. And then it got more interesting. I didn't hear back from him for a few days or receive the EMT notification, so I sent a follow up message. He got back to me several days later and said he didn't like EMT and preferred PayPal. I replied and said I would accept PayPal gift or EMT just like my ad clearly stated. Once again several days went by and there was no contact from the buyer. Once again I sent a follow up email and I received a response that he didn't like PayPal Gift and asked how much it would be to use regular PayPal. After that he stopped responding and I moved on. In the interim I passed on another offer because I had a commitment.

I ended up finding a buyer on here that I have dealt with before, and that deal went very well. In hindsight I blame myself. I love the rating system on this site, and I have met many friends on here as a result of doing deals. I usually check the trader rating when I do a deal, but I neglected to this time. He had a few positive deals, but one very bad one. I should have looked at his feedback stats.

That said the vast majority of my deals on here have been amazing. I have met great people like davetcan, greco, lexx, sulphur and grumpyoldman, and I am failing to mention many more.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2017)

Fox Rox said:


> I have met great people like davetcan, greco, lexx, sulphur and grumpyoldman, and I am failing to mention many more.


I've met a couple on your list there fox.
What can I sell ya to get on it? lol.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)




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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

Only one person has ghosted me on here... twice 
The worst part is when you email them and say "hey, it's alright if you've changed your mind, just let me know" 2 or 3 times and never get an answer 

Happens all the time on kijiji, here not very much


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2017)

I will admit, I once backed out on a deal twice (same person).
Third time contacting, I bought. Glad that I did.


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

Backing out, changing your mind, making an impulse offer, tire kicking... it can happen to anybody

Not one of these things annoys me as much as lack of communication (except maybe from repeat offenders)


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## Woof (Jan 13, 2010)

woofed? really...


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Woof said:


> woofed? really...


Well, I'll be damned.


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## Woof (Jan 13, 2010)

adcandour said:


> Well, I'll be damned.


I haven't read this complete thread but I feel I have been besmirched for no apparent reason. I assume an apology shall follow shortly?


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

stever67 said:


> May I add, in this thread ;-) that it's also as annoying as hell when someone makes an offer on you FS or FT thread, publicly or through PM, you accept the offer, and they say "Ok, let me think about it" or some horse$#%t, then bail. I understand there are extenuating circumstances, but that's been happening a lot on here (to me, anyway) lately... make an offer when you're ready, or make it clear when you enquire what your intentions are. "Would you be interested in... if so then I'm in" or "I'll see if I can get it done, then". Talking with a few forumites, I'm not alone in this.
> 
> Sorry if I hijacked the thread here - seemed along the same lines... ;-)





StevieMac said:


> +1. A member here has _twice_ proposed the same trade for a guitar of mine and then simply ghosted both times after I accepted. They followed up with a cash offer which, again was accepted, and they've not been heard from since. ZERO chance now of ever responding again to that time wasting idiot...





davetcan said:


> I've had 2 "I'll take it, send me your EMT address" and then I never heard from the person again, same guy both times. I just won't respond the next time.



THIS !!!!
As you might well know, I prefer to use this Forum as a highway of gear going in and out of my house. Been here for a few years. Always had a great experience here. But starting only this past year (2016), this malaise of seemingly inconsiderate behaviour has become annoying. I just checked back over my PM's for this year and this has happened SEVEN different times.
The phrase "I'll take it" seems to have either lost it's meaning or they never actually knew what it means.
I don't know what can be done ...... get a thicker skin I guess.

AND unfortunately it not only happens on this Forum. I've just recently been cajoled into selling something I wasn't planning to let go. But upon pleading I weighed the options and agreed. "I'm coming over tomorrow night with the money"............. crickets. That was mid Dec and I've phoned, emailed, texted and crickets. I see he is active on social media during that time. So I know he's ok, not sick or hurt. Just ignoring.
Maybe now I've written about this I can let it go.
I'll just finish by saying, while this is a world wide site, it definitely very Canadian in all aspects and I feel safe here. Love opining, chiming in, buying stuff, selling stuff here. Sold something tonight to another Forumite. He came over, we had a great visit and all was good. Hope to see him again soon.Go Guitars Canada Go
Thank you Dr. Adcandour


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

laristotle said:


> I will admit, I once backed out on a deal twice (same person).
> Third time contacting, I bought. Glad that I did.


You're never going to live that down


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

LexxM3 said:


> You're never going to live that down


haha...


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Yes. Good people here, I feel safe to buy/sell stuff.
Must say, was dealing on TGP for a while, but really lost interest in all the politics of it all.
I do hope this site stays as sane as it can be. (Touch wood).
As a seller though, when the money is in my account, then the deal is done.
And I let the person KNOW that I have received it.
I can't tell you how easy it is in this day & age to take a photo, send it with a tracking # to ease the buyers mind.
Also met a few GC'ers over the time. Hopefully more when it thaws a bit.


Sent from my other other brain.


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## dmc69 (Jan 20, 2011)

Poaching isn't cool. And let's NOT give it a grey area guys. You either transact with integrity or you don't. Simple. 

This forum has been good to me. Mostly. Harmony Central (RIP) and TGP had too much drama on it. Buying and selling on here has been nice too. In my experience, everyone has followed through on their purchase/sale with me and I haven't been ghosted. 

On the topic of forum etiquette, the only bad experience I had on this forum was when I first started selling my guitar bodies. A member here PMd me asking me to disclose my suppliers, to which I politely declined to answer. After all, that's my business info, not public info. Furthermore, he is my competition. Anyhow, he demanded I tell him because GC is a "collaborative forum where we share everything". A hissy fit ensued, and PMs were sent to me telling me how I was a prick for not sharing, I was going to be a failure, and so on. Anyhow, a gross sense of entitlement and name calling when you don't get your way is just terrible etiquette. That's just elementary school level.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

grumpyoldman said:


> I would just like to state, for the record, that I have never kidnapped anyone, or anything, nor do I ever plan to do so in the future (it just isn't my style).
> 
> John
> thegrumpyoldman


Yea, but what would you say if you had?


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## grumpyoldman (Jan 31, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Yea, but what would you say if you had?


I'd have to think about it, first....

John
thegrumpyoldman


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## stever67 (Jun 30, 2008)

Let me add this!!! I have a piece posted here and on that stupid kijiji, where the ad CLEARLY states "PRICE IS FIRM". I had a guy message me this morning asking "What's your best cash price today?" (price is $275) 

Here's my response. Enjoy:

"Well, I assume cash is the only currency we'd exchange, for starters. Long gone are the days of bartering livestock for goods. Secondly, price is firm, yesterday, means price is also, well, firm, today"

He came back with "$240?"*#*(


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

stever67 said:


> May I add, in this thread ;-) that it's also as annoying as hell when someone makes an offer on you FS or FT thread, publicly or through PM, you accept the offer, and they say "Ok, let me think about it" or some horse$#%t, then bail.


This has happened to me and I've probably done it to others. I don't have a problem with it though. Thing is, if someone is trying to arrive at a price with you, they may be doing that so that they can then think about what they'd need to sell to buy your item- or whatever they need to do to afford it. If you are budgeting, you kind of need to know what the final price is. We don't all have an endless supply of "gear money" (sadly). It's their money until they give it to you. You don't know their situation and have no right to know.
Bottom line is that it's more of a buyers market these days so buyers really don't need to feel obligated by any rules of conduct. 
As a seller, I don't feel entitled to anyone's money until they've put it in my account. I absolutely agree with the OP WRT poaching a sale but, beyond that, people are going to do what they do, publicly or privately.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

The distinction between business and hobbyist is important as well. In business, "poaching", in its different forms, is everywhere and frankly, the basis of our capitalistic system and how markets are driven. I've always maintained that i'm not in the business of selling gear - it's a hobby. I like trying stuff out and then move it along for someone else to enjoy. If a dealer contacts a potential buyer because he/she sees a post inquiring about an item, that would be treated as fair game. Hence my comment about it being grey.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Nope, it's shady in pro business as well - though the process there is very different and formalised (exactly in order to avoid this sort of thing; e.g RFPs vs a WTB thread). Also when it comes to selling gear on forums, one end of the deal at least, is almost always not pro.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Granny Gremlin said:


> No, it's shady in pro business as well. Also when it comes to selling gear on forums, one end of the deal at least, is almost always not pro.


If you are made aware that a potential client is looking for a product/service and currently being pitched by another provider, how is that shady?

I am pitched regularly in my business on services that can be offered that are already fulfilled. I view this as opportunity.

I don't do this but I don't condemn someone for trying.


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

stever67 said:


> Let me add this!!! I have a piece posted here and on that stupid kijiji, where the ad CLEARLY states "PRICE IS FIRM". I had a guy message me this morning asking "What's your best cash price today?" (price is $275)
> 
> Here's my response. Enjoy:
> 
> ...


Well that happens to me all the time. My kijiji adds almost always state the same thing "PRICE IS FIRM" in caps and in both languages
You wouldn't imagine the number of times I get replies containing a single number. (IE I'm selling something 1000$ and get a reply saying only "800$")



Alex said:


> The distinction between business and hobbyist is important as well. In business, "poaching", in its different forms, is everywhere and frankly, the basis of our capitalistic system and how markets are driven. I've always maintained that i'm not in the business of selling gear - it's a hobby. I like trying stuff out and then move it along for someone else to enjoy. If a dealer contacts a potential buyer because he/she sees a post inquiring about an item, that would be treated as fair game. Hence my comment about it being grey.


I think we've grown so cynical of capitalism that we now expect businesses to try and screw people (and other businesses) 
If businesses have no morals, at least we as individuals can still have some...


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## _Knighthawk_ (Mar 2, 2014)

I thought markets were artificially manipulated by government and capital/financial sectors to marginalize the working class and maximize profit for the political and financial elites???

Of course, I have been known to be a bit cynical about capitalism.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Alex said:


> If you are made aware that a potential client is looking for a product/service and currently being pitched by another provider, how is that shady?
> 
> I am pitched regularly in my business on services that can be offered that are already fulfilled. I view this as opportunity.
> 
> I don't do this but I don't condemn someone for trying.


I see GC as one shop that we are all salesmen in.

It's like stealing a sale from someone you work with.


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## stever67 (Jun 30, 2008)

I guess I'm just saying that if it says 'firm' and you're not prepared to pay that then don't bother replying. I guess I'm coming from a perspective where (I think, anyway) most of the prices I ask are reasonable, worst case scenario... gold diggers just kinda get on my nerves. Everyone wants a bargain, but... ;-)

I'm very grateful for this thread, by the way! I think it's a good way to straighten out some of the things that have been sliding a bit on GC lately. Faracaster: your reply to this thread nailed it!!!


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

adcandour said:


> I see GC as one shop that we are all salesmen in.
> 
> It's like stealing a sale from someone you work with.


I was referring to business/dealers and not private sellers. My view of GC is very different from yours and purely a hobby. I agree that contacting is out of line (because we don't have to) but was trying to make the point in the context of a dealer or part time dealer trying to earn a living.

Here's a compromise: the poacher can contact the potential buyer this way: "if the deal doesn't work out with the seller, I have the same widget that I can sell to you" - this way, the moral onus is passed on to the potential buyer


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

I've been fortunate (lucky?) here in all of my transactions. I too have met some very nice folks and locally some good friends. As stated earlier, I feel "safe" here too and I hope that feeling isn't misguided. Thanks Adcandour for the opportunity to thank the members here although it has nothing to do with your initial concern. So to get back on track...


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Business said:


> I think we've grown so cynical of capitalism that we now expect businesses to try and screw people (and other businesses)
> If businesses have no morals, at least we as individuals can still have some...


Screw is a very relative term (who's screwing who? The provider over charging the client? ) I'm all about fair play. That's why we have laws to abide to as opposed to individuals moral codes.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

To follow up on that, as a seller, I've personally told potential buyers that they could get the same item cheaper elsewhere
I see my prices as being fair, I don't usually do "great deals", and if the buyer can find a better deal, good on him


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## cifac88 (Apr 4, 2012)

Quite a meandering thread here, but I'll share my opinion too. I haven't done as much buying/selling as many here, but enough to generate some opinions. I've had some great dealings with really nice folks, many of whom have already commented here. However, the membership is much larger than the sampling represented here, and some of those are not such great individuals. I've had a bunch of lowball offers, less than polite comments, and 'ghosting' buyers, like others. This seems to worsening in the last year or so. My subjective opinion is that the overall buying/selling experience I've had here has not been much better from that which I've had through Kijiji, where I buy/sell a bunch too. The feedback rating helps a lot, and as it builds up I'll rely more on that. Many have commented here that the conduct, communication etc is irrelevant to the ultimate goal of a sale and deposit of funds, as it's just business, but I disagree a bit. This is supposed to be an online community, and as such, should embody everything that 'community' implies, such as friendliness, helpfulness, honesty, and consideration. I know not everyone has unlimited funds, and 'GAS' fuels a lot of misconduct here, but for me, I'd gladly sacrifice $25, $50 or $100 and so on in the interest of helping someone get what they want and fortifying an online friendship. You can't really put a price on that kind of stuff, and it's good Karma, which is ultimately far more important than any piece of wood with strings on it.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

nkjanssen said:


> As someone who sells a lot more than he buys these days, I can't see being overly angry about having a sale "poached". If I'm selling something and have made that public, and someone wants to buy what I'm selling and has made that public, I can't see being upset about the buyer doing a deal with someone else because he's closer or cheaper or the item's in better condition or whatever. The fact that the seller and buyer have expressed their intentions on one thread or two seems like a minor distinction to me.


I'm not angry and it happened in one thread and then a couple of pms.

Just picture it this way:

You have a guitar for sale and someone hollers from across a room that they'll take it. You need them to get closer, so you can hear each other and work on ironing out a deal.. As they make their way over to you, someone (who saw you guys hollering) pulls them aside and says, hey, I have this one - follow me over here and let's work out a deal.

You witness this...and think....that was neat? Me, I think the guy's a dicknose.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

This thread was too long for me to read. What's it about anyway...lol


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Waiting for Mark.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

My 2 cents is that if you find a PM'd reply on someone's FS post. And you don't know the person who's posted the PM'd post, but think 'Hey, I've got one of those and I need a few bucks. Plus I can sell it without any work, or even being a Gold Member of the forum, by messaging that respondent and offering it to him for a few bucks less'; you are a dirty dealer and that sits as pretty shady to me. As a seller, I'd be a little annoyed if I knew this was going on and think twice about renewing my Gold status just to sell stuff here.

However, if I replied to a FS post & my bud that I jam with sends me a PM and says 'Hey, I've got one of those and didn't know you were looking. I'll bring it to our next rehearsal for you'; that's a totally different scenario. 

And there are a bunch of situations between these two examples that are various shades of grey.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Wardo said:


> This thread was too long for me to read. What's it about anyway...lol


Turn on the tube and what do you see, a whole lotta people cryin don't blame me. . . . . . . . . . . . .


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

nkjanssen said:


> You said the buyer indicated that he was interested and wanted to discuss it, not that he agreed to buy it.
> 
> That's a bizarre analogy. But to answer the question, I wouldn't think "that was neat". I'd think "oh well, I guess he got a better offer." I wouldn't be shouting at the guy across a crowded room full of people selling guitars if I was worried about something like that.


I realize I said that in the OP, but clarified in post #19. The intent and wording of the poster was strong.

haha. Ok, I realize the analogy was weird, but it think everyone understood it - I could have made it a music store with a bunch of salesman, but didn't care enough and got lazy.

Also, I didn't think I needed to be worried about something like that.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

laristotle said:


> cue the guitar
> 
> View attachment 53385


That *always* makes me smile....without fail. Is it the doubleneck? The knee movements? The gold lame? The boots? The hat? The fact that it's Jed Clampett?
Nah, it's the _whole package_, baby.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I'm torn. On the one hand, it is like someone scooped/poached/undercut a sale.

OTOH! It's an open market. Sellers get to deal with multiple buyers, buyers get to deal with multiple sellers.
Would it be different if a new buyer read the exchange and PMd the seller and said, i'all buy it, but I live far away and I'm passing through your area in an hour. Now or never. A lot of sellers would make that deal and tell the first buyer, sorry, you weren't 100% sure, so I had to make the deal.

Or would it be different if the other seller instead of PMing the buyer, just posted up their own ad immediately? It would seem less sleazy, but otherwise the same result.
I know personally I've held off listing something similar to what someone else is selling, until theirs sold....but that's just me.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2017)

mhammer said:


> Nah, it's the _whole package_, *baby*.


You got the song right.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

The type of poaching i've seen is WTB ads. A seller replies in the thread and another buyer states that they will take it (in the actual WTB ad). I witnessed one that it happened twice to the same WTB ad and finally the OP replied "can you guys start your own fu%#ing WTB ad"


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Alex said:


> The type of poaching i've seen is WTB ads. A seller replies in the thread and another buyer states that they will take it (in the actual WTB ad). I witnessed one that it happened twice to the same WTB ad and finally the OP replied "can you guys start your own fu%#ing WTB ad"


Yeah, that's classless.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Whoa


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

adcandour said:


> Yeah, that's classless.


Here's another one:

A buyer asks you to hold a guitar for sale for a day (which you've agreed) and in the meantime, another buyer says he wants to buy it now. The guitar is worth a good amount of dollars and you can't reach the 1st buyer. Do you sell to the 2nd buyer?


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Alex said:


> Here's another one:
> 
> A buyer asks you to hold a guitar for sale for a day (which you've agreed) and in the meantime, another buyer says he wants to buy it now. The guitar is worth a good amount of dollars and you can't reach the 1st buyer. Do you sell to the 2nd buyer?


Why is the guy holding it? It also depends on who it is...

If it's a high priced item, I'd be hesitant to hold it. I would only do it if I made it clear that a firm offer would be accepted, so he'd better pass on a cell number just in case. I've never had that happen before, but I suspect that's how I'd handle it.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Alex said:


> Here's another one:
> 
> A buyer asks you to hold a guitar for sale for a day (which you've agreed) and in the meantime, another buyer says he wants to buy it now. The guitar is worth a good amount of dollars and you can't reach the 1st buyer. Do you sell to the 2nd buyer?


That happened to me (except with a cheap amp head). Told second buyer I gave my word and am gonna keep it; can let them know if #1 bails. So #2 offerred more money; I replied that I would gladly accept as soon as #1 bails. In the end both buyer 1 and 2 flaked out, as did a 3rd, but then a 4th came round and payed my ask vs making a lower offer like the first 3 (2 excepted). And it was local so didn't have to ship the head as I would have with the other 3.

(none of these buyers were GC people)


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

adcandour said:


> Why is the guy holding it? It also depends on who it is...
> 
> If it's a high priced item, I'd be hesitant to hold it. I would only do it if I made it clear that a firm offer would be accepted, so he'd better pass on a cell number just in case. I've never had that happen before, but I suspect that's how I'd handle it.


You don't know the individual but the buyer has provided you with what appears to be a reasonable reason for the hold (check the Serial number, go to the bank to get funds, etc...) which you've agreed to.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Granny Gremlin said:


> That happened to me (except with a cheap amp head). Told second buyer I gave my word and am gonna keep it; can let them know if #1 bails. So #2 offerred more money; I replied that I would gladly accept as soon as #1 bails. In the end both buyer 1 and 2 flaked out, as did a 3rd, but then a 4th came round and payed my ask vs making a lower offer like the first 3 (2 excepted). And it was local so didn't have to ship the head as I would have with the other 3.


Karma always wins.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

I'd certainly like to think so.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

I'd certainly like to think so.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Alex said:


> You don't know the individual but the buyer has provided you with what appears to be a reasonable reason for the hold (check the Serial number, go to the bank to get funds, etc...) which you've agreed to.


Yeah, I'd stick with the first guy.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

adcandour said:


> Yeah, I'd stick with the first guy.


 I would do the same but can understand someone not. 

I never understood the concept of holding something for a stranger as it only allows the buyer more options. For friends and repeat customers, sure. I get asked this a lot and i always state that for a small deposit, i can hold it. I've actually had at least 6 buyers make deposits and then bail. One of them was a $US500 deposit. I refunded most of that one but saw the same buyer dealing a couple weeks later. We should have a thread on excuses received for bailing on a deal. On a side note, just say that you are not interested or found something else as opposed to telling me you don't have any money after i answered your 8th question on how the neck feels.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

deadbeat buyer: so how that neck feel?

you: uh, pretty nice, not sticky cuz I removed the finish

deadbeat buyer: oooooh, so it's naked [ziiiiiiiiiiiippp]

you: I guess, yeah

deadbeat buyer: So you can run up and down that thing and back again, like, real fast right [squeaky, squeaky]

you: yeah, I actually octave jump a lot

deadbeat buyer: how's the neck profile?

you: oh the thing is great, nice and fat but not bassball bat fat, you know; fill your hand right up but you can still get yer fingers right around it.

deadbeat buyer: uuuuuuuuuuuuuurgh

you: pardon?

deadbeat buyer: yeah dude, I don't have the cash, but thanks. Seriously, thanks so much.

you: dafuq?


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Something like that. I don't have a problem chatting gear if the person is up front ("not interested in buying, just curious......"). Here is one i received recently. At first i wasn't sure of the angle but thanked him anyway.

_Wow! I gotta say that the Hamer Studio you have for sale is one of the finest Hamer's I've ever seen! My uncle has a Studio Custom, almost more orange in color than red, and one of the best playing guitars ever made.... it has to be pried out of my hands sometimes it's so hard to put down. Anyway I'm sure this will sell fast, I know this will make someone really happy. Take Care_


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Alex said:


> Something like that. I don't have a problem chatting gear if the person is up front ("not interested in buying, just curious......"). Here is one i received recently. At first i wasn't sure of the angle but thanked him anyway.
> 
> _Wow! I gotta say that the Hamer Studio you have for sale is one of the finest Hamer's I've ever seen! My uncle has a Studio Custom, almost more orange in color than red, and one of the best playing guitars ever made.... it has to be pried out of my hands sometimes it's so hard to put down. Anyway I'm sure this will sell fast, I know this will make someone really happy. Take Care_


Probably wants to go for a donut.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

adcandour said:


> Probably wants to go for a donut.


and some nice church-oriented social activities...(Zappa reference).


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

nkjanssen said:


> Since this thread seems to have broadened quite a bit, here's a classic e-mail I got this morning from a buyer interested in a Dave Smith Prophet 6 desktop module I'm selling elsewhere:
> 
> My ad: "Price is firm. Not interested in trades."
> Buyer: "Would you be willing to drop your price? I know you said you're not interested in trades, but I have two Akai AX60's I might part with."
> ...


yep, that's a good one that continually revolves.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2017)

Alex said:


> We should have a thread on excuses received for bailing on a deal.


My wife changed my mind. 



Alex said:


> and some nice church-oriented social activities...(Zappa reference).


with leather?


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Alex said:


> Here's another one:
> 
> A buyer asks you to hold a guitar for sale for a day (which you've agreed) and in the meantime, another buyer says he wants to buy it now. The guitar is worth a good amount of dollars and you can't reach the 1st buyer. Do you sell to the 2nd buyer?


Without any tangible commitment from the first ie a deposit, or if I know them really well, then yes. Cash is king.
If a hold is some sort of contract to buy, it should be binding on both parties. Having done this before and had buyers disappear, start to renegotiate again or simply find another seller, I know it's not binding on them, therefore it's invalid.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Someone asked if I would hold something for them. I said "Sure" and said I'd already held if for a guy yesterday so why not? I told him, "BTW, it's still for sale with anyone who brings money while it's on hold."


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

whenever I hear someone say: " consider it sold!! "

I have found it actually means:

" I am going to disappear and you'll never hear from me again!! "


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