# Modifying the new Epiphone LP SL (2017)



## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Today I went to L&M to figure out what to do with a couple of gift cards I recently got and I found this Epiphone Les Paul SL for $139.










Apparently is a new model and as soon as I put my hands on it (after trying a few >1k) I knew i was going to like it. 
After a good setup I can say the intonation is pretty good for this type of bridges, once the pickups are at the proper height it sounds really good and different from my other two (Tele and Strat) electrics. 

Only issue is it seems to have a low quality wiring because it makes more noise than I can remember non-noiseless make. Here is an audio demo, I'm playing chords in the middle, neck and bridge positions, you'll know as soon as you hear the noise, then play a few licks in the same order. 


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https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fandrei-martinez-agras%2Fles-paul-sl-audio-demo

Maybe I'm missing something or this is just the way it is, it feels confortable and I like playing with it, maybe there is something that can be done to decrease a bit that noise...


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

Yes, that buzzing is kind of annoying. Maybe take it to Long & McQuade and let them know about it. Maybe the wiring wasn't done properly.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

CONGRATS!!

You make it sound superb (as always)!

Wonderful colour.

I think you might have a grounding issue.
If L&M won't/can't have a look at it for whatever reason,
@mhammer might (I know he has the skills..I just didn't want to be assuming and offering his help) be able to help you sort it out.

ENJOY!


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Congrats!

It could be the nature of the beast.
More than one dual P90 guitar that I've had was only quiet in the middle position and a racket in the other two.
They cancel out when combined, like a humbucker.

Maybe some sheilding might help?


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## aC2rs (Jul 9, 2007)

Thanks for posting the demo, it sounded really good.
Last time I was in L&M I saw them hanging there but didn't take the opportunity to try them out.
I will have to take a closer look at them the next time I'm there.

Very cool colour!


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Thanks guys, I seriously doubt L&M will want to take care of the noise but I'll give it a try today. If mhammer also wants to put his hands on it I will be the happiest guy in America as he already turned my Squire Tele into a monster tone machine.

Other thing I've been thinking about is getting replacement bridge with adjustable saddles to be able to fine tune the intonation for each string individually, as I said it is pretty accurate as it is but you only can adjust two points on a bridge with fixed intonation. That might require probably a lot of work that I'm willing to do, maybe with the guidance of the folks here.

Green is my favorite colour, I thought if I was going to get the cheapest Epi ever made it should look like it as well.


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## Fox Rox (Aug 9, 2009)

That is a lot of guitar for the money, congrats! I haven't had a chance to try one yet but I am looking forward to checking them out soon.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi Andrei.

I'd be happy to check it out. Other than the buzzing, I like the sound. I was thinking of buying one the next time I'm in the U.S., but given the exchange rate, the L&M price seems reasonable. I've been busy re-laying the interlocking stones on our front patio. My wife got a quote of $1500 for someone to do it, and so far, apart from my aching back and wrists, it has only cost me $70 in materials. So I might persuade myself to "splurge" on an SL.

My experience is that, while single coils always attract hum, they can vary a lot in how much hum they attract. On my old Epi Coronet, I have a Tele-type neck pickup I wound myself, and a Mighty Mite P90 in the bridge position. The neck is not dead quiet, but it has MUCH less hum than the P90. In your SL, the hum seems about equal in both neck and bridge.

One of the things I am interested in trying is winding a dummy coil for hum reduction. I have done this before with success. In a perfect world, a dummy coil would be located right _beside_ the actual pickup, so that it sensed the same source of hum equally. But it does not have to be a near-identical coil in a near-identical position in order to reduce hum. Realistically, sticking a dummy coil in the control cavity, and simply _reducing_ hum by 12db or so can make the sound quite liveable. The coil itself does not have to be an exact match either. All it has to do is attract a similar amount of EMI/hum as the actual pickup does, and that can be done without necessarily affecting the inductance and tone of the combined pickup and dummy coil.

I can't find any images of the SL with the pickguard removed, so I have no precise idea of how much space there is to work with in there. But the layout and spacing of the controls, jack and switch, suggest there might be a fairly big space under the pickguard. I guess tapping on the pickguard will give some clues without having to remove it completely.

One more thing. Is the buzzing reduced a lot by simply touching the strings, and increased by lifting your hand?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> One more thing. Is the buzzing reduced a lot by simply touching the strings, and increased by lifting your hand?


I am waiting patiently for the response to this as it should be the cardinal sign for grounding issues. 

If you decide to go the route of the dummy coil, could you please do a thread about it. I have read about this many times in the past (in @mhammer 's posts) but I can recall ever seeing a thread where one was built and put into a guitar. Maybe it is just my failing memory.

@mhammer Take care of your back! Be kind to it.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Thank you Mark! A dummy coil is the perfect solution because the stock pickups sound terrifically good IMHO. I think there is enough room, I opened it up and they seem to have make a big chamber purposely in order to reduce weight. The buzz is barely reduced by touching the bridge and it reduces more by touching the pole that's closer to the ground which makes me think the bridge material is not a good conductor. I've been looking at replacements parts for an Adjustable Wraparound Bridge so that might help too. Touching the strings has almost no effect on the noise. 

When are you planning to work on your front patio again? I will go to give you a hand.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Damn that looks cool.

Rock on dude.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

amagras said:


> The buzz is barely reduced by touching the bridge and it reduces more by touching the pole that's closer to the ground which makes me think the bridge material is not a good conductor.


This is getting interesting! Still frustrating for you @amagras , I'm sure. However, 'diagnostically' it is interesting. 
I really need to get out more often...LOL.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

amagras said:


> Thank you Mark! A dummy coil is the perfect solution because the stock pickups sound terrifically good IMHO. I think there is enough room, I opened it up and they seem to have make a big chamber purposely in order to reduce weight. The buzz is barely reduced by touching the bridge and it reduces more by touching the pole that's closer to the ground which makes me think the bridge material is not a good conductor. I've been looking at replacements parts for an Adjustable Wraparound Bridge so that might help too. Touching the strings has almost no effect on the noise.
> 
> When are you planning to work on your front patio again? I will go to give you a hand.


Thanks for the offer of help. The hardest part (removing and cleaning all the bricks) is already done, and putting them back in place is going quickly. I'm giving my wrists the day off today, to recover, but tomorrowI should be finished.

Guitar Fetish has a reasonable selection of reasonably-priced wraparound bridges: Gibson Style Bridges The Wilkinson-style strikes a nice balance between the fixed-intonation LP Jr. bridge the SL comes with, and a fully-intonatable bridge. It allows adjustment of the B and G strings.

I'm a little unclear about what you mean by "the pole that's closer to the ground".


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

If I touch the mounting screw of the bridge that has the ground cable attached it reduces the noise considerable, if I touch the other it doesn't. It is weird though as touching the ground on the pots directly does not reduce noise either.

I already ordered this:
BQLZR Chrome Wraparound Bridge Tailpiece for Guitar: Amazon.ca: Musical Instruments, Stage & Studio

Tomorrow I have to rehearsal all day with one of the bands I play bass with and I can't miss it because is paid by the hour. Take one more day off please, I want to help, you have done so much for me and my guitars!



greco said:


> This is getting interesting! Still frustrating for you @amagras , I'm sure. However, 'diagnostically' it is interesting.
> I really need to get out more often...LOL.


Not that frustrating as it might sound, I know what I was getting into and also the diagnose and modifications are always welcome when they are backed up by a wonderful community like GC!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

amagras said:


> It is weird though as touching the ground on the pots directly does not reduce noise either.


Even more interesting now...


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

I was just going to see if anyone has tried these out, and here is this handy post! Couple quick questions:

Is the neck attached with a neck plate, or is it machine screws with inserts in the neck, or maybe just ferrules for the screws but standard screws with no inserts in the neck? For the SL I've seen pics with a neck plate, but also this:








Are the pickups the correct size so that they could be replaced with standard Strat pickups?
Just curious, that's all!


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

That guitar has 'MOD ME' stamped all over it


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

@troyhead the Neck is attached with a neck plate and 4 screws. Not like the picture you posted. The pups are Strat size and they can also be replaced with Strat size HBs


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

I've been working on the neck alignment, I discovered that for some reason someone took off some wood from the body part where the neck is supposed to seat and that was making it difficult to lower the action, I put a couple of pieces of cardboard and I was able to considerably lower it with no fret buzz








Here's a also a picture of the pickup height, although they are at very different height they sound at the same volume now which makes me think they have very different power.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Did you have any luck finding the cause of the electronic humming noise?

If you did, were you able to get rid of it?

That is such a great colour!


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

I haven't even connected it again, apart from what mhammer suggested I want to see if I can get some of the HB sound using one of these:
1pkg Belcat BHS-94 Hot Rail Blade Strat Coil Pickup Black and Superior (Rohs) black: Amazon.ca: Musical Instruments, Stage & Studio


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

You will certainly get hum cancellation with that, but it will not sound like a full humbucker, if only because the sensing area is different. That's not bad. It certainly didn't present an obstacle to Danny Gatton! But it won't sound like a PAF format.

In the meantime, I'm starting to exteriment with winding a dummy coil you can fit in the control cavity.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

mhammer said:


> You will certainly get hum cancellation with that, but it will not sound like a full humbucker, if only because the sensing area is different. That's not bad. It certainly didn't present an obstacle to Danny Gatton! But it won't sound like a PAF format.
> 
> In the meantime, I'm starting to exteriment with winding a dummy coil you can fit in the control cavity.


Yes, I'm definitely sticking to the dummy coil, I just want to try those and compare, probably GC will find interesting a review of the cheapest Chinese hot rails. 

Let me know when you are available to meet. Thx


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Someone gave me a Duncan Hot Rails some years back,and it had a similar DC resistance (13k), and VERY similar construction. I installed it briefly in a Tele-type body and found it to be much too hot for my tastes. The Belcat might sound okay, or it might not. Of course this would be true of just about _any_ pickup. I am sure there are plenty of cases where someone hears a Lollar or Bare Knuckle or Fralin pickup and says to the player "You need different pickups. Those sound awful."

Taste is a peculiar thing.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

mhammer said:


> Someone gave me a Duncan Hot Rails some years back,and it had a similar DC resistance (13k), and VERY similar construction. I installed it briefly in a Tele-type body and found it to be much too hot for my tastes..


Compared to the original Tele or a real HB? 

I don't mind loosing tone as long as the noise is gone. I'm also interested in keeping the tone as different from the Strat and Tele I have.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

So I just tried two of these (seafoam esque and graffiti yellow) and 1) wow, lightweight 2) wow, playable 3) wow, stayed in tune pretty well (it's $139.99 I was expecting *far* worse) and 4) it's a shitload of guitar for $139!

I am now on a mission to convince my wife to buy me one. Before tour, after tour, I don't care haha. I want it!


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

The variety of vivid colors helps with the wife approval for sure.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

amagras said:


> The variety of vivid colors helps with the wife approval for sure.


I always thought it would, but I show her purple PRS models and get "what, it looks like a guitar."

Maybe its because she knows those arent cheap haha


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

Que color tío!!! That's awesome. I think it needs a sticker. Just the kid in me coming out.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Budda said:


> So I just tried two of these (seafoam esque and graffiti yellow) and 1) wow, lightweight 2) wow, playable 3) wow, stayed in tune pretty well (it's $139.99 I was expecting *far* worse) and 4) it's a shitload of guitar for $139!
> 
> I am now on a mission to convince my wife to buy me one. Before tour, after tour, I don't care haha. I want it!


I was just in L&M on Saturday renting a subwoofer on half price rental day. Will check these out when I return it. I have an as new branded Epiphone case for a Les Paul that L&M would only give me $25 for when I traded in my 1990's Korean Les Paul for a Seagull 12 string. For that kind of money, it doesn't have to sit empty anymore.


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## Ronbeast (Nov 11, 2008)

So these seem to be quite a hit then? I may have to rethink my earlier statements and try one out just because... the girlfriend won’t mind, as long as it’s nice and colourful.

Any comments of the fretwork? I find that makes or breaks these cheap guitars. Everything else is workable, but poor fretwork just kills my desire.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

The frets are fine, not jumbos which makes it difficult to adapt for me but not not a big difference either. The neck is not perfect, the wood in mine is a little twisted I think, which makes it impossible to get an extremely low action (like heavy metal low action) but it can still be set pretty low with 10s


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Ronbeast said:


> Any comments of the fretwork? I find that makes or breaks these cheap guitars. Everything else is workable, but poor fretwork just kills my desire.


The fretwork on the two I tried didnt have any glaring issues. Bending on the 22nd fret on high e didnt give me problems.

Honestly its a $350+ guitar tagged at $139.

Think of it like the used seagull S6 deal of the electric family haha.


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

Budda said:


> The fretwork on the two I tried didnt have any glaring issues. Bending on the 22nd fret on high e didnt give me problems.
> 
> Honestly its a $350+ guitar tagged at $139.
> 
> Think of it like the used seagull S6 deal of the electric family haha.


This is great to know.
The way how I read your mind (wow becoming mindreader now  )
"It is pretty quality "husk" with as cheap as possible electronics/hardware to meet price point"

which is much better deal than cheap and bad everything.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

​Here's a great thread on it.
First Look: Epiphone Les Paul SL


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

From Andrei's comments, and as is tyical of budget guitars made by anyone, it is a good idea to buy one from somewhere that carries a bunch of them, and try out several to find a "good" one. What allows budget guitars to be produced so cheaply is certainly automation, but also minimal attention to quality control. "Quality control" requires people inspecting things, and that's labour costs, which large manufacturers try to minimize. The upshot is that budget items are hit and miss: some will be quite decent and deserrving of a higher sticker price, and some less so. So it is good to try them out at a retail outlet and do the quality-control yourself, rather than simply ordering online. I think that approach would be true regardless of the make or model of anything retailing for under $250.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Mark's post is why Im hoping to grab one of the ones I played. They only have two at the store.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

They only had one in turquoise in my local L&M


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Budda said:


> Mark's post is why Im hoping to grab one of the ones I played. They only have two at the store.


Lay away maybe? Christmas is coming up and if you guys can't get your ladies to get you one of those for Christmas at that price, your not treating her right.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Guitar101 said:


> Lay away maybe? Christmas is coming up and if you guys can't get your ladies to get you one of those for Christmas at that price, your not treating her right.


Oh she'll get other stuff, guitars are just very difficult to persuade haha.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

The $17 replacement bridge just arrived. 
It came with the Allen wrench and the screws that to attach it to the body. They fit perfectly.








Here is a visual comparison with the stock one.







After removing the stock one I realized that one of the intonation screws had been twisted by the pressure of the strings, the screws on the new one look a little more firm.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Looks like quite a good guitar for the price.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

As the new bridge is heavier it makes the guitar feels more stable. I haven't rectified the intonation yet but with the bridge roughly put in the same position stays in tune pretty well and doesn't go anywhere with moderate playing. It also seems to have more sustain. 
I had to remove the pieces of cardboard under the neck (post #19) because this bridge is taller but the action surprisingly stayed low, perhaps even lower.

Next step is going to be locking tuners, I'll have to save for a while to get them but they are always worth.

One thing that might be worth mentioning is that the combination of the two pickups sounds to me closer to the classic LP sound than the Telecaster which is what I would logically expect from two single coils placed around 5 fingers apart.








Also, I'm so happy for how much fun is to work on mods living in Canada!


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

amagras said:


> One thing that might be worth mentioning is that the combination of the two pickups sounds to me closer to the classic LP sound than the Telecaster which is what I would logically expect from two single coils placed around 5 fingers apart.


I wonder if they're wired in series, which would essentially turn them into one giant humbucker. Is there an increase in volume when both pickups are selected?

FWIW I had a LP Classic with Jimmy Page wiring & my fave tone on that guitar was both coils split, in phase, in series. Same goes for the 4th position on my Baja Tele.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Roryfan said:


> Is there an increase in volume when both pickups are selected?


No, could be a cool think to experiment with.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

On my way home from Next Gen where I met @jbealsmusic and picked up these (at their usual great prices!)








Update. It comes with everything you need to mount them


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

amagras said:


> The $17 replacement bridge just arrived.
> It came with the Allen wrench and the screws that to attach it to the body. They fit perfectly.
> 
> 
> ...


Try not to use intonation screws, but to intonate by moving the saddles if possible.
I purchased couple of those cheap bridges and were not happy with any of them. Might be my usual task of luck


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

The yellow and blue (green?) ones at L&M south here seem to have sold - nowhere to be found yesterday. They do have a black one hanging up on the wall though, and it looks really nice.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

bigboki said:


> Try not to use intonation screws, but to intonate by moving the saddles if possible.
> I purchased couple of those cheap bridges and were not happy with any of them. Might be my usual task of luck


Thanks for the advice! I set the new intonation screws at pretty much the same position I had the one that bent so I will try not to have to move that part anymore. With the new locking tuners i hope not to have to set the intonation too often either.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Today I dared myself to record something with the new guitar, not a hi-gain lead of course but with with some Tel Ray Echo it sounds pretty beautiful, what do you think:

__
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fandrei-martinez-agras%2Fepi-lp-sl-tel-ray


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

After the adventure with the $20 Belcat Hot Rail copy https://guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/174745/ my next step was this (translucent speed knobs and white switch cap from @jbealsmusic):








Now waiting for a second $20 hot rail and white pickup covers from Amazon


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## iamthehub (Sep 21, 2016)

amagras said:


> On my way home from Next Gen where I met @jbealsmusic and picked up these (at their usual great prices!)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Regarding those tuners, did you have to do any drilling or were the holes lined up correctly? 

This looks like the perfect guitar platform for modding  

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

iamthehub said:


> Regarding those tuners, did you have to do any drilling or were the holes lined up correctly?
> 
> This looks like the perfect guitar platform for modding
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


I had to widen the holes that go through the headstock from 8 to 10 mm IIRC and drill new holes for the screws. The drill broke the finish around a couple of the holes but it's only superficial. Some of the old screw holes are close to the new ones but there's still enough space between them.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

This is the most important update as it is the last one. The second Belcat arrived a few days ago with a set of white Stratocaster pickup covers, the pickups didn't fit in the covers so I tried this

















It didn't the work so after giving a deserved rest to my brain I realize that this simply looks cool










Now the guitar is ready, I'll try to post some new audio examples of both Belcat in the middle position, here's how it looks


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## iamthehub (Sep 21, 2016)

So in the end... did the upgrades cost more than the guitar itself?

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

iamthehub said:


> So in the end... did the upgrades cost more than the guitar itself?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


No but close, the most expensive part was the tuners which are worth every dollar, I can now use the guitar in a 8-hour recording session without having any more tuning issues than I would with my Am Deluxe. The rest of the upgrades were less than $50 and the pickups made a huge difference, not a pure Gibson sound but I have a very different flavour to offer my clients and use in my records.


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