# "Neck-Pop" ...Fact or fiction?



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

The following was copied from a thread in the Jazz Guitar forum...
The hidden tone control of Strats and Teles?

I'm interested in the comments from GC forumites.

Fact or fiction?
_*

The "neck-pop"
*
Many have had the strange experience that after some kind of work on their guitar that involved removing the bolt-on neck, afterwards their guitar sounded dull and damped. This is caused by bolting the neck back on to the body and tightening it fully before putting on and tuning up new strings - the butt-end face of the neck is locked and may be left with little or no firm contact with the body-end of the neck pocket.

The simple fix for this is to loosen the neck plate screws gradually, moving from one to the next until the tension of the strings overcomes the friction in the pocket - at which moment the neck suddenly moves toward the body a slight amount and makes a "pop" as it makes firm contact with the body face of the socket. Tightening the bolts locks this firm contact in place and restores the brightness of the guitar._


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Theoretically very possible.


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

i read about this some time ago from somebody that I trusted.
basically, under string tension I would loosed two screws closest to the bridge.
I don't know if it improved the guitar or not - but it makes sense to me and is easy and safe to do it


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

Not sure it improves tone, but I’ve tried it and at least a couple of times, the neck popped and moved a bit. Oddly the best sounding telecaster I ever played had about a 1/16th gap between the body and neck and two of the neck screws were essentially stripped, so I think there are a lot of variables.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Yes this works. There's about 120 to 200 pounds of tension pulling the neck towards the body, depending on string gauge. If the neck heel is firmly seated against the body then the neck screws are only in tension holding the neck in place, and not holding the shear load from the strings. If you have a bolt neck guitar that goes out of tune very easily it might be this. You might get a pop if it was never seated before and the finish on the neck stuck in the pocket.

Ideal mechanical situation has the body holes slightly larger than the screws so the screws only bite into the neck, and the screws are only in tension. ( This is the same loading situation as a cylinder head on an engine block. )

I read about this from some Ron Kirn posts on TDPRI (edit! Actually, from a Dan Erlewine book on guitar setup!) and being an engineer, it made perfect mechanical sense. I've done it to every bolt neck guitar Ive had and tuning stability is always better.
I had one Squire where the screws were bound up in the body and the neck wasn't tight against the pocket at all, just sort of floating on the 4 screws. I could put a paper shim at any place between the neck and the pocket and it was clear, even between the back of the neck and the pocket floor. The guy I bought it from said it had no sustain, and he was going back to his epiphone les paul.
I drilled open the body holes so the screws didnt bite into the body, and just before torquing the neck screws down I tightened the strings up. Move the neck side to side until you align the strings with the dot markers, then do the final tightening on the neck screws. For that Squier there was a huge difference in sound and sustain and it now stayed in tune. It was completely dead before because there was no neck to body contact at all.


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## Schmart (Jun 7, 2011)

If you can find that Ron Kirn post again, please post a link. I'd love to read it. The only ones I could find had to do with correcting the alignment of a neck and with that he does say to de-tune to reduce tension.


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## nnieman (Jun 19, 2013)

I do that to every bolt on neck guitar that I have ever made/ assembled.
There is almost always some slight movement.

I can’t comment on tonal differences before and after.

Nathan


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

Its a 'must-do' on any bolt-on guitar that I acquire.


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## nbs2005 (Mar 21, 2018)

You learn something new every day. While on a Teams meeting ( I was just listening) I did this to all 3 of my Fender guitars. They all moved a bit (maybe dropped a tone to a tone and a half). I have no idea if the sound better or not now; I'm sure I could talk myself into that. 

Thanks,

Jeff


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Schmart said:


> If you can find that Ron Kirn post again, please post a link. I'd love to read it. The only ones I could find had to do with correcting the alignment of a neck and with that he does say to de-tune to reduce tension.


I'll look for it but he has 1000s of posts. He either said it, or agreed with someone's description of it.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Schmart said:


> If you can find that Ron Kirn post again, please post a link. I'd love to read it. The only ones I could find had to do with correcting the alignment of a neck and with that he does say to de-tune to reduce tension.


Looks like I was mistaken. It was from a Dan Erlewine book on guitar setup! 
I dug around RKs posts a bit, and he does say to have the body holes loose for the screws. He assembles his guitars very carefully and I bet this "neck pop" trick would do nothing on one of his guitars. And that's the thing about this technique, if the guitar was assembled carefully it probably doesn't need it. But take an assembly line guitar where the neck is stuck onto body, 4 pilot holes drilled then 4 screws stuck in, then sometime later the strings are put on and you can end up with a neck that doesn't join the body well. 
I found RKs assembly instruction pdf. It does say, with the strings on tight but not up to tune, center the dots, aligned e and E strings then tighten the neck screws. I think this achieves the same result, as it makes the heel seat into the neck pocket.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I never had a clue about this. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.


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## John Reilly (Apr 7, 2018)

I did this after seeing a video about it a couple years ago and noticed an impovment in 4 out of 6 guitars i tried it on.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

tomee2 said:


> Yes this works. There's about 120 to 200 pounds of tension pulling the neck towards the body, depending on string gauge. If the neck heel is firmly seated against the body then the neck screws are only in tension holding the neck in place, and not holding the shear load from the strings. If you have a bolt neck guitar that goes out of tune very easily it might be this. You might get a pop if it was never seated before and the finish on the neck stuck in the pocket.
> 
> Ideal mechanical situation has the body holes slightly larger than the screws so the screws only bite into the neck, and the screws are only in tension. ( This is the same loading situation as a cylinder head on an engine block. )
> 
> ...


By that theory of tension, we should convert neck bolts to studs and nuts like we do on high power engines. We might be on to something!


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## gbomb (Oct 18, 2013)

If the neck does move or 'pop', intonation would change slightly and a uniform adjustment would be required. I shall give it a try.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

cboutilier said:


> convert neck bolts to studs and nuts


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Tried this a few times over the years and never found consistent results. Instead, I've generally inserted a shim of veneer in that space. I haven't done it to my Godin electrics as I've never removed the necks and the fingerboard extends over the gap.


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## John Reilly (Apr 7, 2018)

gbomb53 said:


> If the neck does move or 'pop', intonation would change slightly and a uniform adjustment would be required. I shall give it a try.


I checked intonation and needed to adjust slightly ,depending on how much it moved.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Yes. that is just kind of what you do with a bolt on neck.

here's a bigger issue though. Often the holes in the body don't allow the screws to do the job of pulling the neck into the body to make firm contact. I see this all the time with cheaper guitars and occasionally with higher end instruments as well. The neck screws should pass through the body without the threading digging into the body wood. If they get stuck in the body, they don't pull the neck tight into the pocket. That is- by far- the biggest cause of that loss of sound.


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## dmc69 (Jan 20, 2011)

Yesss. I have been preaching enlarging body holes for years, especially when I sold tele bodies. Customers would ask all the time as to why a neck wasn't seated properly or why there was a slight gap between the body and butt end of the neck. I didn't know about supposed the tonal improvements but from a mechanical standpoint, it made a ton of sense to have the neck as tight to the body as possible.


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

So is the final answer fact or fiction?


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

starjag said:


> So is the final answer fact or fiction?


On a near perfect well set up guitar, probably fiction. On anything else, could be fact. That's my verdict.


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

Fact *and* fiction!



tomee2 said:


> On a near perfect well set up guitar, probably fiction. On anything else, could be fact. That's my verdict.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

starjag said:


> Fact *and* fiction!


Yup... "your mileage may vary" comes to mind. That's the thing about this stuff...one person's experience might be different from another's, yet they're both right!


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