# Bass cab help, please



## Imported_goods (Mar 4, 2006)

Hi all,

I occasionally play bass with a group of friends, and since we've done a few gigs together I've decided that it would be time that I equipped myself properly.

Up to now, I've done the gigs with my bass through a keyboard amp (300 watts, 15" speaker and tweeter) with a H.B.E. Hematoma Bass preamp/overdrive. (Wicked pedal, BTW.) My bass is a Warwick Fortress One which I bought second-hand; I love it's tone which is quite "growly" compared to most basses I've tried or heard. This setup works well with the band, but I'd like to get some amplification specifically for the bass.

I've borrowed an Ampeg B1RE Head for the moment from a friend, which leaves me just with the task of finding a cab...

Since we play small venues, I don't really want or need a back-breaking 4x10 type of cab; but I was wondering what difference there would be between a 2x10, 2x12 or 1x15 type of cab? Ideally, I'd like something light enough to spare my poor back, but loud enough to keep up with drums and guitar...

And while we're at it, any canadian cab makers out there??

Thanks, and happy holidays!:food-smiley-004:


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## bluecoyote (May 18, 2007)

*Try a Traynor*

I would have a look at the Canadian made Yorkville (now Traynor) XC115. I have played one of these in Long & McQuade and they sound just great. I cannot remember the exact price but it was very reasonable. 

Compact and very efficient, the XC115 offers tons of bottom end without breaking your back or the bank. Careful attention to driver design as well as optimum enclosure parameters ensures that the XC115 will reproduce every note with equal projection. Piezo tweeter with L-pad control makes the XC115 the perfect single cabinet solution for full range bass guitar output. Use it alone or fit it under a XC210 for extra thump.

Cabinet Program Power (Watts)	300
Cabinet Impedance (Ohms)	8
Speaker Configuration - LF (Size / Power)	Single 15 inch
Speaker Configuration - HF (Size / Power)	Piezo Tweeter
Frequency Response (Hz +/-3dB)	50 - 2500
Dimensions (DWH, inches)	15 x 23 x 23
Dimensions (DWH, cm)	39 x 58 x 58
Weight (lbs / kg)	63 / 28.6


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

Or check out Avatar (through Steamco Music in Canada) - they're light; even I can pick up a 210 alone and walk up stairs with no trobles (it's 44 lbs). It's not Canadian though. However, I own an Ampeg B2R and an 8 ohm Avatar 210 cab and while I love it, I don't think it's enough to play small clubs with - at 8 ohms, the head is only pushing 200 watts and Ampeg's 200 watts isn't a conservative rating. So yeah... I'd definitely recommend a 4 ohm cab/setup to go with that cab.


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## bluecoyote (May 18, 2007)

I would disagree on the 4ohm cab. With that amp that is all you will be able to attach to it. It can only run to a 4ohms. It cannot run 2ohms. Unless you get the cab you want to spend the rest of your life with then get a 4ohm. I would leave my options open and get an 8ohm 15" and then later get a 210 or a 410. Both in 8ohms, thus you will max out that amp running in 4ohms. A 15" combined with some 10" speakers sounds great with that amp.


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

Sorry, I guess I assumed that he'd only want one single cab - I'm not sure what that assumption came out of (sleepiness maybe). But yeah... a couple of 8 ohm cabs would definitely be better than a single 4 ohm cab - I just didn't think that an 8 ohm cab alone would be enough if you're playing with a group if it's paired with an Ampeg B1RE. My Ampeg B2R isn't and it's a few more watts than the B1.


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## james on bass (Feb 4, 2006)

Yes, get an 8 ohm cab as very few amps are 2ohm stable, and at some point, you will want a second cab. 

I have an Avatar 2x12 and it is a great cab, and very light weight. 

Yorkville/Traynor cabs are the shit and extremely well priced, but not what I would call light by any means. I played a Yorkie 2x10 not too long ago, and the sound from that little cab blew away any other 2x10 I've heard! It was about twice the weight of other 2x10's though. That on top of one of their 1x15" cabs would be a serious gig rig. I'd love to get an XC115 for under my 2x12, or a second Avatar 2x12-it's a toss up.


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## seanm (Feb 19, 2007)

Leyland Sound Design are right here in Ottawa. I have never heard nor seen their cabs, I only found out about them recently.


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## Imported_goods (Mar 4, 2006)

Thanks for all of the advice!

Bluecoyote, I had the chance to check out the Yorkville XC115 a my local music store today, it sounded great but like James on Bass says, it aint what I'd call light, at almost 30 kgs.

Jane, you're right, I really would prefer a single cab, I definitely can't rule out getting bigger/more cabs in the future (damn GAS) but for now I just need something easy to haul around and that will sound good.

I'll drop Leyland sound design an email, if I could try out one of their cabs it would be great; I prefer that to purchasing a cab without hearing it first, although Avatar seems to have an excellent reputation.

:rockon:


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I generally use a cart to move the big stuff anyway, so weight isn't really a factor. The Yorkville cabs are great pro quality, and the warranty is good too.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Gunny (Feb 21, 2006)

I've owned, and still own, Yorkville/Traynor cabs. I put wheels under them for getting around and I can manage to get them into the back of my car with a little grunting and groaning.


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## bluecoyote (May 18, 2007)

In my experience, light cabinets usually denote crappy speakers. I have never found a good light cabinet that is any good regardless of the manufacturer. _(NOTE: Of course I have not heard the new Peavey Cabinets which are supposed to be very much lighter than their earlier versions.)_ I am afraid that the reality is that great speakers are heavy, with good magnets and the cabinets are made of dense plywood. 

You don't want to be carrying any cabinets anyway! Get a small collapsible dolly to move your stuff around. Have this dolly from Canadian Tire and it works just great for $79 - http://www.canadiantire.ca/browse/p...4443290658&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true

If you are going to buy only one cabinet do get a 4 ohm and I would go for a 2x12 or a 410. But again they are going to be heavy that is the nature of the beast. I would also check out SWR Workingman's Series Cabinets - good value for what you get. In addition the B-Series Ampeg Cabinets fall within the same price point too. In my case I would rather buy a good cabinet right of the bat rather than buying three cheap ones over time. The difference in price between cheap ones such as Behringers and Ampeg B-Series is just a couple of hundred dollars. Hardly worth the hassle of dealing with crap.

Good luck with your quest and I would keep an eye out on Craiglist as well as the Buy&Sell in your area. Always have bass cabinets for sale.


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## fretcity (Jun 3, 2007)

Hi / bonjour - I highly recommend EDEN cabs. I own an Eden 210XLT and could not be happier. It can handle high wattage, is compact, has massive sound and sounds like a 4x10 cab. 

However my taste isn't for everyone - I suggest to find a dealer that will let you buy a cab that grabs you - and exchange for another cab *no questions asked* if your not happy with the sound. Keep going through cabs until you are 100% satisfied - then you can concentrate on your music and not the gear !!

Because invariably you can only tell if it's the "right" cab when you get it into a real-live situation with *your* music and *your* situation. 

Best Regards Rob


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## Imported_goods (Mar 4, 2006)

*Bass cab update*

Well, I just wanted to post an update on my quest for a cab:

I tried out a few stuff at my local stores, and decided that a 1x12 or 1x15 would suit my needs for practice/small venues. I was seriously looking into an Avatar 1x12, when I saw this on ebay and snatched it up:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110215708738&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001

The price was too much to resist, despite the fact that I hadn't tried any amps/cabs by Genz Benz. The combined weight of the amp and cab were just what the doctor prescribed for my aching back, too. Should arrive by next week at the latest, I hope the amp & cab are as good as the reviews say they are! So thanks for all the advice, I'll post a review of the gear as soon as I can, if anyone's interested.
:rockon:


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## seanm (Feb 19, 2007)

Nice!

And I would be very interested in a review.


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## james on bass (Feb 4, 2006)

Very nice!! You should be quite happy with Genz!


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

Nice! I'd love a review - I've always wanted to try a GB amp. A head that lights that goes down to 2 ohms would be killer...


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## james on bass (Feb 4, 2006)

The Neo Pak doesn't neccessarily go down to 2 ohms. Some do and some don't for some reason. If it doesn't say on the back it is 2 ohm stable, it can be sent to GB to be modified.


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## Imported_goods (Mar 4, 2006)

*Genz Benz Neo Pak 3.5 and NEOX 112T review*

Got the gear last evening, here are my first impressions:

Disclaimer: I am by no means as accomplished a bass player as most of you, being a pianist and guitarist before becoming a bassist. So please bear in mind that I haven't a great deal of personal experience with bass gear, and can't compare my current set-up with other makes and models...just as a reference, bass tone I like: Marcus Miller, Pino Palladino, Mike Dirnt jump to mind...

Gear:
Warwick Fortres One
Genz Benz Neo Pak 3.5
Genz Benz NEOX 112T, 8 ohms

First off: the GB's are LIGHT. The cab weighs in at around 39 pounds, I think, so doesn't weigh any more than a regular guitar cab. The head is 8.5 pounds plus has a carrying case, so I can lug it around as easily as a laptop.

The head has an active/passive switch for the input. There is a gain and volume control for the preamp, followed by the tone stack (bass, parametric mids, high), with 3 signal shape buttons (bass boost, scoop, high boost), and master volume. 

To start, I played the amp clean, without overdriving the 12AX7 tube preamp, didn't engage any of the signal shape buttons and left the tone controls flat. Already, obviously a huge difference from my previous setup, which was playing my bass through a Yorkville KB200 keyboard amp (!!!): warmer, less sterile. Engaging the signal shape buttons made a marked difference ine the sound: the bass boost increases low-end without getting boomy, the scoop instantly makes the sound less "full" but will probably cut well through a band, and the high (attack) button would probably be great for slappers (I suck at slapping). 

Overdriving the preamp gave some dirt but, tone snob that I am, I don't particularly like the sound of an overdriven preamp. I liked the sound better using my HBE hematoma OD.

I played with the tone stack controls which are both musical and not so complicated as to intimidate someone like me.

Overall, the Neo Pak 3.5 is very versatile in it's tone shaping abilities; the preamp distortion is not my thing (buzzy, IMO), but overall tone is extremely musical (i.e not sterile).

The NEOX 112T cab is 8 ohms, has a 12 inch driver and horn which can be controlled via a knob in back. Did I mention it is LIGHT? Rating is 300 W. I haven't played with the band yet, but I can say that the sound of the cab is punchy and tight: absolutely no slobbery low end here. It can go surprisingly deep for a 112 (manufacturer says 45Hz) and when A/B'd with my 200KB (which has a 15" driver and tweeter) it definitely had much more projection and firmness to the low end. Mid and high response was nice as I played up the neck, overall a well balanced sound which will no doubt be more than enough for my band practices and small gigs.

So, thumbs up! I'm extremely pleased with the gear, and would highly recommend this setup for anyone, like me, who wants very portable gear for small gigs and practices.
:rockon:


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## seanm (Feb 19, 2007)

Imported_goods said:


> Engaging the signal shape buttons made a marked difference ine the sound: the bass boost increases low-end without getting boomy, the scoop instantly makes the sound less "full" but will probably cut well through a band, and the high (attack) button would probably be great for slappers (I suck at slapping).


Good review. Tell us your thoughts after a first gig!

Just one correction, scooped mids pretty much guarantee you get lost in the mix in a band situation. Scooped mids are for sounding good at home, much like the loudness button on a hifi.

The fact that you didn't like the scoop button make me suspicious that they overdid the scoop.

But I don't care for EQ buttons on amps anyway. They are somebody else's idea of a good tone. So I don't consider them a positive or negative feature.


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## Imported_goods (Mar 4, 2006)

seanm said:


> Just one correction, scooped mids pretty much guarantee you get lost in the mix in a band situation. Scooped mids are for sounding good at home, much like the loudness button on a hifi.
> 
> The fact that you didn't like the scoop button make me suspicious that they overdid the scoop.


I must admit, I wasn't quite sure what the mid scoop was there for; I REALLY dislike scooped-out guitar amps, and scooping my bass takes away all of the "wood" and growl from the sound.

Anyways, I'm pretty much the same as you, I don't think I'll be using the shape buttons that much as I can dial up pretty much any sound I want with the tone controls.


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

Mmm... sounds good. Do you know if any music stores in Canada stock GB? I'd like to try one out. That, and one of those new shuttles when they come out, although I think I'd like something rackable.

What does "scooped mids" mean... a frowny face EQ? What's ideal for live situations? A smiley face?


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## seanm (Feb 19, 2007)

jane said:


> Mmm... sounds good. Do you know if any music stores in Canada stock GB? I'd like to try one out. That, and one of those new shuttles when they come out, although I think I'd like something rackable.
> 
> What does "scooped mids" mean... a frowny face EQ? What's ideal for live situations? A smiley face?


Scooped mids is the smiley face. You are cutting (scooping out) all the mids.

And just because scooped mids are bad, does not necessarily mean you need a frown. Quiet often flat or very selective EQing works better.


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

seanm said:


> Scooped mids is the smiley face. You are cutting (scooping out) all the mids.
> 
> And just because scooped mids are bad, does not necessarily mean you need a frown. Quiet often flat or very selective EQing works better.


I was running DI into the mixer @ band for awhile through the guitarist's bass EQ pedal and he had it set to scoop mids and I thought it generally sounded good through my in-ears. I was (and still am) disappearing in the mix sometimes though... thoughts?


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## seanm (Feb 19, 2007)

jane said:


> I was running DI into the mixer @ band for awhile through the guitarist's bass EQ pedal and he had it set to scoop mids and I thought it generally sounded good through my in-ears. I was (and still am) disappearing in the mix sometimes though... thoughts?


My personal preference is to run the bass straight into the DI. I would not bother with an EQ pedal since the soundman can EQ as required.


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## james on bass (Feb 4, 2006)

jane said:


> I was running DI into the mixer @ band for awhile through the guitarist's bass EQ pedal and he had it set to scoop mids and I thought it generally sounded good through my in-ears. I was (and still am) disappearing in the mix sometimes though... thoughts?



You could very well be disappearing in the mix _because_ of the smiley face. Took me years to realize this as well. What sounds good to you individually, either in-ears or in your bedroom is not necessarily the best for cutting through in a band situation. Too much high and you're clashing with guitars and vocals. Too much low and you're right in kick-drum territory. For my set-up, I've found I boost the lows just a tad, keep the treble flat or a bit cut, and boost the low mids and mids. I cut through just fine. I even got to hear my rig when some friends of the band did a set during our NYE gig this year, so I know how I sound in relation to the band at FOH on our equipment.


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

james on bass said:


> You could very well be disappearing in the mix _because_ of the smiley face. Took me years to realize this as well. What sounds good to you individually, either in-ears or in your bedroom is not necessarily the best for cutting through in a band situation. Too much high and you're clashing with guitars and vocals. Too much low and you're right in kick-drum territory. For my set-up, I've found I boost the lows just a tad, keep the treble flat or a bit cut, and boost the low mids and mids. I cut through just fine. I even got to hear my rig when some friends of the band did a set during our NYE gig this year, so I know how I sound in relation to the band at FOH on our equipment.


Thanks, I'm going to try that this Friday. It's kind of weird though... I'm running through a podxt live (w/ the bass expansion) and some of the patches have EQ, then sometimes through another EQ pedal into the mixer where I'm sure there's more EQ pattern on my sound too. It probably explains why I cut through on some songs/patches and not on others... I thought it was how I had my channel volume set but I was pretty sure I'd gotten all the channels to approximately the same value. I think it's just the way some of the patches are EQed (or not) versus others.


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## seanm (Feb 19, 2007)

jane said:


> Thanks, I'm going to try that this Friday. It's kind of weird though... I'm running through a podxt live (w/ the bass expansion) and some of the patches have EQ, then sometimes through another EQ pedal into the mixer where I'm sure there's more EQ pattern on my sound too. It probably explains why I cut through on some songs/patches and not on others... I thought it was how I had my channel volume set but I was pretty sure I'd gotten all the channels to approximately the same value. I think it's just the way some of the patches are EQed (or not) versus others.


That makes sense. Plus things like distortion can also hurt how well you cut through.

First try to get a good clean sound. Once that is right, then start messing with adding effects.


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## Imported_goods (Mar 4, 2006)

jane said:


> Mmm... sounds good. Do you know if any music stores in Canada stock GB? I'd like to try one out. That, and one of those new shuttles when they come out, although I think I'd like something rackable.


Jane, since I bought mine off Ebay, I'm not quite sure about dealers in Canada near where you live, but the Genz Benz website offers a comprehensive list on it's website:

BARRIE MUSIC CENTRE 
411 HURONIA ROAD 
BARRIE, ON L4N 9B3 
Phone: (705)735-1730 Fax: (705)735-1730

ARDEN'S ACCORDION ACADEMY LTD. 
23 COLLEGE STREET WEST 
BELLEVILLE, ON K8P 2G3 
Phone: (613)968-7725 Fax: (613)968-4078

GEORGE'S GUITARS & MUSIC 
62 SWAYNE STREET 
COBOURG, ON K9A 1K5 
Phone: (905)373-1991 Fax: (905)373-1992

BLUE MOUNTAIN MUSIC 
127 HURONTARIO ST. 
COLLINGWOOD, ON L9Y 2L9 
Phone: (705)445-5500 Fax: (705)445-5500

CELLAR GUITARS 
35 HIRSHHORN AVENUE 
ELLIOT LAKE, ON P5A 1P3 
Phone: (705)848-9792 Fax: (705)848-4387

CELLAR GUITARS 
5 COLUMBIA WALK 
ELLIOT LAKE, ON P5A 1Y3 
Phone: (705)848-9792 

ME PROUCTIONS 
831 NOTRE-DAME STREET 
EMBRUN, ON K0A 1W1 
Phone: (613)443-9020 Fax: (613)443-1551

MARINO HARDWARE & ELECTRIC LTD 
107 MAIN STREET BOX 130 
GERALDTON, ON P0T 1M0 
Phone: (807)854-1041 Fax: (807)854-1732

LOU'S MUSIC 
544 CONCESSION STREET 
HAMILTON, ON L8V 1A8 
Phone: (905)297-0882 Fax: (905)308-9997

CRIPPLE CREEK MUSIC CO. 
1-15 CHAFFEY STREET 
HUNTSVILLE, ON P1H 1H4 
Phone: (705)789-1112 Fax: (705)789-1112

KINGSTON SOUND WORKS 
267 ONTARIO STREET 
KINGSTON, ON K7K 2X5 
Phone: (613)546-9999 Fax: (613)546-9888

JOHN BELLONE MUSICAL 
INSTRUMENTS LIMITED 446 YORK STREET 
LONDON, ON N6B 1R2 
Phone: (519)673-1411 Fax: (519)673-4973

ROCKHOUSE MUSIC 
515 HAMILTON RD. 
LONDON, ON N5Z 1S3 
Phone: (519)438-5047 

L.A. MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS 
260 LAKESHORE RD. E. PORT CREDIT 
MISSISSAUGA, ON L5G 1G9 
Phone: 271-0303 Fax: 271-9371
www.lamusic.ca

L.A. MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS 
230 LAKESHORE ROAD E. PORT CREDIT 
MISSISSAUGA, ON L5G 1G7 
Phone: 
www.lamusic.ca

GG'S CORNER & GIFT SHOP 
417 CENTRE ROAD P.O. BOX 280 
MOOSE FACTORY, ON P0L 1W0 
Phone: (705)658-4591 Fax: (705)658-4326

FLEET PRO SOUND & LIGHTING 
6 BEXLEY PLACE UNIT 104 
NEPEAN, ON K2H 8W2 
Phone: (613)829-1228 Fax: (613)829-0656

REVOLUTION MUSIC 
430 SPEERS RD. 
OAKVILLE, ON L6K 2G3 
Phone: 338-7512 Fax: 338-0460

DON'T FRET GUITAR INSTRUCTION 
68 WELLINGTON STREET UNIT #3 
PORT HOPE, ON L1A 4H7 
Phone: (905)885-2467 Fax: (905)885-5523

COSMO MUSIC WAREHOUSE 
112 NEWKIRK RD., N. 
RICHMOND HILL, ON L4C 3G3 
Phone: (905)889-6382 Fax: (905)770-6657

VAN GOOZEN MUSIC 
115 MITTON ST. S. 
SARNIA, ON N7T 3C5 
Phone: (519)344-2319 Fax: (519)339-8864

THOMAS WALLS SCHOOL OF MUSIC 
505 ALBERT STREET EAST 
SAULT STE. MARIE, ON P6A 2K3 
Phone: (705)946-1981 Fax: (705)946-4602

HOLMES APPLIANCES 
147 MAIN STREET WEST BOX 289 
SHELBURNE, ON L0N 1S0 
Phone: (519)925-3037 Fax: (519)925-2641

MUSIC CITY INSTRUMENTS 
353 LAKE STREET UNIT 15-16 
ST.CATHARINES, ON L2N 7G4 
Phone: (905)937-7625 Fax: (905)937-7624

NIAGARA CONSERVATORY OF MUSIC 
11 RENFORTH SQUARE 
ST.CATHARINES, ON L2M 6X3 
Phone: (905)688-6008 Fax: (905)688-6008

WE ROCK SCHOOL OF MUSIC 
6245 MAIN STREET UPPER LEVEL 
STOUFFVILLE, ON L4A 4J3 
Phone: (647)206-4790 

VALENTE'S MUSIC 
78 SOUTH ALGOMA STREET 
THUNDER BAY, ON P7B 3B3 
Phone: (807)345-8711 Fax: (807)344-5573

ELITE MUSIC ACADEMY 
822 DANFORTH AVENUE 
TORONTO, ON M4J 1L6 
Phone: (416)406-5355 Fax: (416)406-5355

ROGERS MUSIC CENTRE 
465 ROGERS ROAD 
TORONTO, ON M6M 1A8 
Phone: (416)651-3332 Fax: (416)651-3353

STEVE'S MUSIC STORE 
415 QUEEN ST. W. 
TORONTO, ON M5V 2A5 
Phone: (416)593-8888 Fax: (416)591-6735
www.stevesmusic.com

WALTERS MUSIC - TORONTO 
1992 YONGE STREET 
TORONTO, ON M4S 1Z7 
Phone: (416)485-8868 Fax: (416)485-9792

ARDEN'S MUSIC 
51 QUINTE STREET 
TRENTON, ON K8V 3S8 
Phone: (613)392-6300 Fax: (613)392-5957

CENTRAL MUSIC 
252 EAST MAIN ST. 
WELLAND, ON L3B 3W9 
Phone: (905)732-4885 Fax: (905)732-5005
www.centralmusic.com

SUMMIT SOUND INC. 
184 MCANDREWS ROAD P.O. BOX 333 
WESTPORT, ON K0G 1X0 
Phone: (613)273-2818 Fax: (613)273-7325
http://www.summitsound.com

CARDINAL MUSIC 
2573 JEFFERSON BLVD. 
WINDSOR, ON N8T 2W5 
Phone: (519)944-5800 Fax: (519)944-5800

Hope this helps!
:smilie_flagge17:


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

Wow, there really are no dealers around me. So much for that idea.


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