# Worst live tone ever!



## holyman (Dec 22, 2009)

So I saw Crash Karma last night. Both guitar players were playing either Dual or Triple Recs and man oh man did they ever sound bad. No guitar tone at all, just a high pitched buzz. 

The reason I bring this up is because earlier yesterday afternoon before I went to the show I took home a 2010 Dual Rec to try out for a week or two. The amp sounds amazing at low volume and when I play by myself in my basement, but after hearing it live my enthusiasm for this amp has dwindled. 

Was the horrible tone I heard last night a result of the amps not be dialed in properly? A pro band like Crash Karma should know how to work an amp right?


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## sadowsky13 (Feb 26, 2007)

Funny you say that. I saw them (Crash Karma) at the rock the park with collective soul, thornley and three doors down and thought the same thing about their tone. Didn't see the triple rec's though.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I beg to differ. I had the worst live guitar tone ever last weekeng at an outdoor gig. Still haven't figured out what the hell was going. Pure tone suckage, and this coming from my favourite Budda Superdrive and a PRS Cu24. Both of which sound awesome today so I'm not sure what was happening. I'm putting it down to something going wrong on the pedal board right now. Sooooo embarassing. Bad enough that my playing sucks, LOL.


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## sadowsky13 (Feb 26, 2007)

davetcan said:


> I beg to differ. I had the worst live guitar tone ever last weekeng at an outdoor gig. Still haven't figured out what the hell was going. Pure tone suckage, and this coming from my favourite Budda Superdrive and a PRS Cu24. Both of which sound awesome today so I'm not sure what was happening. I'm putting it down to something going wrong on the pedal board right now. Sooooo embarassing. Bad enough that my playing sucks, LOL.


Been there done that!! I started playing a song and had the thinnest tone ever and couldn't figure out what it was. About half way through trying to trouble shoot while playing I finally noticed someone had stepped on my wah and it was on. DOH!!


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

sadowsky13 said:


> Been there done that!! I started playing a song and had the thinnest tone ever and couldn't figure out what it was. About half way through trying to trouble shoot while playing I finally noticed someone had stepped on my wah and it was on. DOH!!


Yep, done that too, LOL. Never did figure this one out, played the whole damn set that way. Of course being nervous doesn't help. If I'd just stopped and thought about it for a minute I'd have just plugged straight into the amp to see if that fixed it. Double DOH !!


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

Depending on your rig and the venue, sometimes a power conditioner can help you get more predictable tonal results.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

As someone who just auditioned for a band with their roadster, and the guitarist of said band uses a dual rec..

yeah, something was up with either the EQ or somewhere else in the signal chain. How about you set all the EQ knobs to noon, turn up the output knob to 11 o'clock, and then start messing around - you will be happily suprised.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Not typical, think of all the amazing sounding Dual's out there. This one band should not turn you off.
As Budda said its all in the setup and knowing how to adjust it.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

*NO, This is the worst tone ever!*

[video=youtube;l1qCczGgSxw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1qCczGgSxw&feature=related[/video]
And it's because of effects too!


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

mrmatt1972 said:


> [video=youtube;l1qCczGgSxw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1qCczGgSxw&feature=related[/video]
> And it's because of effects too!


Dumble, who is sitting beside Kaiser and playing the other guitar, must have felt his underwear start to creep. Jesus that is just brutal. The title of that video is somewhat incorrect.


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

sadowsky13 said:


> Been there done that!! I started playing a song and had the thinnest tone ever and couldn't figure out what it was. About half way through trying to trouble shoot while playing I finally noticed someone had stepped on my wah and it was on. DOH!!


this happened to me right after i bought a new amp...i got it home and had the shiitiest tone ever...everything sounded like a buzz saw...i was starting to get pissed that i had just spent all that money and the amp had crapped out on the way home (i tested it prior to bringin it home)...i started thinkin...its sounds just like the wah is on at full treble...SOB!! turned it off and it sound like an amp again!!

maybe the MESA's were backline? cuz i thought buddy from OLP was a marshall guy...

i've also heard that Dan Donegan from Disturbed is brutal live...nothing like the albums


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## walksta (May 8, 2010)

Dual and Triple recs... ahhhh the great mystery of 'made for rock' amps. To get them sounding right people scoop the mids and drive the preamps... which is not usually translated well on stages.

My opinion, which many will disagree with is that to get a great rock tone live you need an amp that you can CRANK in the power amps section and that usually means LOUD volume wise, not so much gain-wise... which means that 100 and 150 watt beast like Mesa's are way too much wattage and have to be turned down in most mid to small venues especially if they are miked into the board at all... 

"Nu rock/metal" guitarists will crank their preamp gain and get 'Mosquitoe' tone... ugh... Just buy a 15 or 30 watt amp and crank the power amp into a 4x12 and your balls will shake with glee!!!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

As a sound man I have heard more bad tones from Mesas than from any other brand I can think of. Most Mesa owners will tell you it's just that they're more complex and take more knowledge and experience to dial in. If that's the case, they're too complex and shoud be avoided. Frankly I can only remember mixing ONE guy who got great tones from a Mesa (Lonestar as I recall) but he was so good I have no doubt he would get a great tone out of pretty much anything.

For the most part what I hear from Mesas is buzzy over distorted mud. Sorry guys. I don't own one, but For one reason or another most people can't seem to get a good sound from them.

This is JUST my opinion. Putting on my flame suit now.


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## holyman (Dec 22, 2009)

Milkman said:


> As a sound man I have heard more bad tones from Mesas than from any other brand I can think of. Most Mesa owners will tell you it's just that they're more complex and take more knowledge and experience to dial in. If that's the case, they're too complex and shoud be avoided. Frankly I can only remember mixing ONE guy who got great tones from a Mesa (Lonestar as I recall) but he was so good I have no doubt he would get a great tone out of pretty much anything.
> 
> For the most part what I hear from Mesas is buzzy over distorted mud. Sorry guys. I don't own one, but For one reason or another most people can't seem to get a good sound from them.
> 
> This is JUST my opinion. Putting on my flame suit now.


I have noticed that people who do sound don't seem to think much of Mesa Boogies or most high gain amps for that matter. I wonder how many bad tone issues could be solved by simply cranking down the preamp? 

I am taking this new Rectifier to a jam tonight so we will see how it does. I am lending my Hot Cat 30 to the other guitar player and I expect it will destroy the Mesa.


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

Just a word of caution. If you have germanium trannies in any of your pedals(fuzz), and its real hot out, they will overheat and sound like shit. I put mine in a cooler before the show just for some tonal insurance. Course, steppin on your wah, and not noticing is just plain dumb.

CT.


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## walksta (May 8, 2010)

I've recorded with a mesa and you have to turn the gain down on those ignorantely low in order to get a good tone through a Mic. Gain on 1-2 with the master volume up about halfway.... sounds almost clean in the room and then you hear it on tape, it has huge balls.


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## Emohawk (Feb 3, 2006)

Personally, I do think Boogies sound awesome on their own in a room at any volume, but in a live mix it's a different issue.

IMO one of the problems with Mesa's Rectos live (and other similar high gain amps with similar voicing) is people tend to go overboard with the gain not realizing that it will sound completely different through the PA, usually sounding much gainier & buzzy than the amp on it's own. As noted previously, gain down & volume up will help a Boogie sit better in a live mix. But there's still that power issue. When a Dual Rec gets into it's sweet spot it's way too loud in many cases. Attenuators help

That said, a pal of mine plays a Single Rec live & usually sounds great - but he's a hell of a player. I've only ever seen him play in smaller venues and I don't know how he has the thing set up. I know there's been places where he wasn't running through the PA at all.

Crash Karma was at Club One, right? My old roommate is the "Kirk" in the local Metallica tribute band (Seek & Destroy), and he played one of the shows with a similarly voiced Traynor YCS100H (I have the amp he played in fact) at Club One and it sounded much the same through the PA. When I heard him in sound check without the PA I thought it kicked ass (and I ended up buying it).

As for the Hot Cat destroying the Mesa, you're probably right. But if you ever decide to sell the Hot Cat to a fellow Newf, let me know!


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

this has given me an idea for a different thread


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

yep thats definately the worst evar ....

Kiaser aluminum. automobiles ....

he s the heir to some kind of fortune 

this is as good an argument against inherited wealth as any I ve seen 

not counting Paris Hilton, at least shes H O T ha hah ahah a

p


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

Rectos are one of my all time fav amps for tone. The players may not be very good at dialing in a good live tone, or maybe they think it sounds good... I have also heard many a sound man ruin good tone thru the PA so the amps on stage may have sounded good. If it was the direct amp tone you were hearing, well then, you need to take this up with the guitarists, cuz I love Recs.


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## unison thrush (Nov 17, 2007)

I actually got to see Crash Karma the other night. I was standing right in front of Mike Turner. He was playing his Tom Andersons through an Axe Fx Ultra powered with a VHT poweramp, running into a Mesa 4x12. Sounded great, and I was hearing the sound direct from the cab, cause I was so close. I love Rectos as well. Currently have a Roadster, and have owned almost every recto in the past!! Love them!! Every time I decide to go another route, I always come back.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

holyman said:


> I have noticed that people who do sound don't seem to think much of Mesa Boogies or most high gain amps for that matter. I wonder how many bad tone issues could be solved by simply cranking down the preamp?


Many, I would say. The gain which seems right when it is 'just the amp' is WAY too much when it goes through a PA in my experience. I do think some of the Mesas are a tweaker amp - you need to figure it out and dial it in but the Mesa cleans can be pretty damn amazing. Those old Mesa combos are all fantastic to me. 

Now the Dual Rec, Triple Rec, Quadruple Rec, Dionne Quinttuple Rec up to the Squintillion Rec and all of those in between are too much for me. I have never used them but I've been places when people were using them. One guy who was going on and on about tone prior to playing (like he was the tone guru) was tweaking his to bits and then he'd do a few jug-jugs on his pointy Jackson (not that there's anything wrong with that) but then he'd tweak away again and do a few more jug-jugs...repeated it a few times and then finally he was ready and the gig got under way. It didn't sound great so he obviously didn't know his amp.



CocoTone said:


> Course, steppin on your wah, and not noticing is just plain dumb.


Come on...Kirk Hammett does it...oh...that's right...he MEANS to step on his wah and leave it on...hmmmm...and it still sounds bad!


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## KoskineN (Apr 19, 2007)

AH the old "Mesa amps sound bad" debate! I do agree that some(or a lot) of players sound bad with them. Like somes said before, they use
too much gain, and the "presence" control can destroy your tones when not used properly. And let be honest here, a lot of metal players
don't know how to dial good tones IMO(from my experiences)

Like some peoples said before, cranking the power section does wonders on these amps. I own a Roadster combo for 3 years now and play some heavy stuff
with one of my bands. I keep the channels volumes quite low(between 9 and 11 o'clock), and the master volume is around noon. Plus the 
gain on the heavy channels(3-4) is around 11 o'clock. Presence are at 9 o'clock or almost off. I might say that I use SED Winged C 6L6's and JAN-Phillips & Tung Sol 12AX7's,
which tamed the buzziness of the amp. This gives me great focused distorted tones, and always got great comments so far, except that I might be a little too 
loud sometimes, but that's rock&roll right? ;-)


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

mrmatt1972 said:


> [video=youtube;l1qCczGgSxw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1qCczGgSxw&feature=related[/video]
> And it's because of effects too!


HOLY SHIT! you win I bow to you this is the most shit sounding guitar tone PERIOD... I usedto hate Triple Recs but compared to this they are tonal bliss... this guy has got to realize this sounds terrible... thing is he seemsto be digging it... towards the end he starts saying he got a lot??? MORE... I ****in hope not!

For the Record Dual Recs can sound just awsome.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I wonder if guys who own rectos a) read the manual b) know the tonal qualities of their guitars and c) EQ with their head in front of their cabs.

The presence knob can kill your sound, but if you have a darker guitar you can get away with running it a bit higher; also depends on your pickups. Also how the knobs interact is fun; if you put your mids at 4, you will more range out of your bass, presence and treble controls then if you dime said mid knob. You need to read the manual to know that though, or have a friend who actually knows how a recto works.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

okay i won't argue about the equipment, but i saw Jimmy Cliff at the Bluesfest this summer.
i have loved Jimmy Cliff's music for decades and i've seen him once before, a long time ago.
but the guitarist he had with him this year...SUCKED REALLY BAD!
i wasn't close enough to check out his gear but it was dialed all wrong.
the band sounded like some kareoke version of songs with Jimmy Cliff doing vocal overdubs. 
it was heartbreaking to hear.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

holyman said:


> I have noticed that people who do sound don't seem to think much of Mesa Boogies or most high gain amps for that matter. I wonder how many bad tone issues could be solved by simply cranking down the preamp?
> 
> I am taking this new Rectifier to a jam tonight so we will see how it does. I am lending my Hot Cat 30 to the other guitar player and I expect it will destroy the Mesa.


In the hands of a smart player (not the same necessarily as a great player), a recto can sound like pretty much anything they want. We're all used to the "typical" recto nu-metal tone, but other non-nu-metal guys with great tone can use them completely differently as well...Dave Grohl, John Petrucci and John Sykes come to mind. None of which sound anything like the typical over the top Metallica sound.

I'm new to the world of dual recto ownership, and dont claim to be a great tone guru, but I can tell there's a lot in there once you learn to control the muddy.
That said, I'm lazy/lack time, so I use the recto mainly for heavy rhythm and use my CAA Suhr for lead/cleans.
I dont know that I could ever be happy with 1 amp head. I havent found it yet, at least.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

mrmatt1972 said:


> [video=youtube;l1qCczGgSxw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1qCczGgSxw&feature=related[/video]
> And it's because of effects too!


I cant get past the awful "Wayne's World" playing to be able to even begin evaluating the ice-picky tone.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Diablo said:


> I cant get past the awful "Wayne's World" playing to be able to even begin evaluating the ice-picky tone.


Dude...Wayne Campbell would beat that guy down in a guitar duel.


I actually thought that it was one of those videos in which somebody redid the audio on to make someone sound bad.
Side note: great tone by his accompanying player...that fella must have been embarrassed to be there.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

smorgdonkey said:


> Dude...Wayne Campbell would beat that guy down in a guitar duel.
> 
> 
> I actually thought that it was one of those videos in which somebody redid the audio on to make someone sound bad.
> Side note: great tone by his accompanying player...that fella must have been embarrassed to be there.


As I noted earlier the accompanying player was in fact Alexander Dumble.


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## Tyler Savage (Nov 16, 2009)

davetcan said:


> I beg to differ. I had the worst live guitar tone ever last weekeng at an outdoor gig. Still haven't figured out what the hell was going. Pure tone suckage, and this coming from my favourite Budda Superdrive and a PRS Cu24. Both of which sound awesome today so I'm not sure what was happening. I'm putting it down to something going wrong on the pedal board right now. Sooooo embarassing. Bad enough that my playing sucks, LOL.


Been there myself! Was playing a Garnet Rebel that usually sounds like the queen's birthday any day at practise or in a bar. Throwing a tube screamer in front of it, and it's thick, heavy and magnificent.

I played an outdoor gig,and it sounded like a wasp in a jar. Kicking on the tubescreamer just added the sound of paper tearing. I couldn't figure out what was up.

One part of it was that my amp was on a riser, directly into my ear. 
The other part, (I think) is just the dispersion of sound in open air. As I moved around my amp, it sounded absolutely completely different. I would take a step to the left or right, and my sound would just disappear. Asking people after the show and they said I sounded good, but I thought they were lying. 

Maybe there were power issues too, because everything was running off a generator???


As for rectos, I've heard 100s as well. Completely anecdotal, but the best ones I've heard are the early early Single Recs, the supposed "hand-wired" ones.

That said, I don't think it has anything to do with being hand wired - instead, i'm suspecting that these earlier models have at least been in a shop, and have been re-tubed, or re-bias'

A friend of mine plays a Single Rec with EL34s instead of the stock 6L6s. Sounds like a fantastic beefy marshall. 

My other guitarist had a dual for awhile - It sounded really heavy with a telecaster, crappy with everything else. Couldn't get a good tone out of it if we tried. It was sold for a JTM45 and never looked back.


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## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

Agreed. Mike Turner sucks period. I saw OLP a few years back in Kingston at the M Centre when he was still in the band and his tone was horrible then too. You are not alone.


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

prodigal_son said:


> Agreed. Mike Turner sucks period. I saw OLP a few years back in Kingston at the M Centre when he was still in the band and his tone was horrible then too. You are not alone.


Funny, i saw them back in 99, and his tone was fantastic. Heavy 90s tone.
But this shit is in the eye of the beholder. Mesa dual rec's sound amazing... to me.


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

TDeneka said:


> But this shit is in the eye of the beholder


he's right...some people strive to have tone like this...

[youtube]cEctCR_9C0k[/youtube]


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

ezcomes said:


> he's right...some people strive to have tone like this...
> 
> [youtube]cEctCR_9C0k[/youtube]


I can't believe there is a pedal for this! I used to just plug straight into the board to achieve this tone!


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