# Have you/do you buy music from online services?



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I posted this thread over at the TDPRI. I thought I would post the same thread here because it's an interesting topic matter. Especially for those of us in bands who are experimenting with online digital sales.

***on TDPRI I asked if people use subscription services like Pandora as an option. Unfortunately we don't have access to most of those services in Canada, so I left that question off***

What are you guys doing with your own stuff, and what are your online buying habits? I personally have used all the methods in the polls.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

As for POSTING music. In my band's case I have been working on setting up our catalog on Bandcamp. Mainly because they offer their downloads in Flac, AIFF, WAV, Mp3 and other codecs. I do not believe in paying or charging $1 a track for lossless audio codes personally. If I pay for a digital download, I want CD quality. We can also get download cards from them so people can buy those off us and just punch in the code online and get the album. We can also include all the artwork we want, and videos etc. 

We plan on getting 7" vinyl pressed, of our new release, so this will be the other system we will offer.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Yes, I have used the major online retailers (iTunes, Amazon, eMusic etc.)
 Yes, I have used the smaller services like Bandcamp or CDBaby
 Yes, I have I have used both the major retailers, and smaller services mentioned above.
 Yes, but I buy direct from the band's site
I have bought Johnette Napolitano from iTunes
I have bought Kate Micucci from CDBaby
I have bought Ayumi Hamasaki from Amazon (I think it was the 08/09 one)
I have bought Erik Mongrain from his web site

Those are just four, there are many more. The thing they all have in common is that I have not left my spot in-front of the computer to do the purchasing.

EXCEPT FOR! In Burlington each year we have a week long summer festival called The Sound of Music. I have bought CD's from street performers


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

I buy mostly from iTunes or Amazon. I have purchased from smaller services but am reluctant only for security reasons - don't know who I'm giving my $$ info to - unless they use Paypal. I prefer to buy directly from the artist after a performance.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Stratin2traynor said:


> I buy mostly from iTunes or Amazon. I have purchased from smaller services but am reluctant only for security reasons - don't know who I'm giving my $$ info to - unless they use Paypal. I prefer to buy directly from the artist after a performance.


Ya that is another reason I went with Bandcamp. They use PayPal. And since those download cards cost next to nothing to get (50 cents a unit I think), they are the main thing we are going to experiment with.

I'd like to test the waters on iTunes, but I am just not sure at this point if the intial fees (for a submission service) and the % they take would be worth it. It would be good for exposure, but at this point in time that money would likely be better invested in a short run of CD's. If we weren't so constricted by budget, I'd just throw a release up there and see what happens.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

I just made my first on-line purchase last week - I was given an iTunes card for Christmas. I still buy most of my music from the vendors' tables at music festivals and concerts.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

I should add that buying from iTunes was pretty easy and I will continue to make purchases there.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

I've used iTunes and CDBaby in the past, and I've also bought from band sites direct.

I like that you specifically want to distribute lossless formats. I can't stand buying from iTunes when I'm getting a low-quality mp3. What's the point?


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> I've used iTunes and CDBaby in the past, and I've also bought from band sites direct.
> 
> I like that you specifically want to distribute lossless formats. I can't stand buying from iTunes when I'm getting a low-quality mp3. What's the point?


Ya the issue is it's tough to distribute files that size from your own web site unless you have some serious bandwidth on your hosting. A full album in lossless format can be pretty big.

I am not opposed to buying mp3's. My issue is is that there is no way they should be $1 a track. You are getting a lossy format and no packaging. The labels are paying nothing for distribution. But at $1 a track, you are basically paying about the same as you would for a physical CD. I do not agree with that at all. If I am paying that price, I should be getting CD quality. 

IMO they should even be offering extras with the downloads. They have the potential to include video, art beyond CD packaging... why not take advantage of the technology? They can do a lot better than lossy audio tracks for the same price as a CD.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> Ya the issue is it's tough to distribute files that size from your own web site unless you have some serious bandwidth on your hosting. A full album in lossless format can be pretty big.
> 
> I am not opposed to buying mp3's. My issue is is that there is no way they should be $1 a track. You are getting a lossy format and no packaging. The labels are paying nothing for distribution. But at $1 a track, you are basically paying about the same as you would for a physical CD. I do not agree with that at all. If I am paying that price, I should be getting CD quality.
> 
> IMO they should even be offering extras with the downloads. They have the potential to include video, art beyond CD packaging... why not take advantage of the technology? They can do a lot better than lossy audio tracks for the same price as a CD.


This is where labels distributing vinyl have really gotten their act together. When you buy a new album on vinyl, you often get a whole bunch of freebies in the sleeve, like a download coupon to download the album on iTunes or some other site, download coupons for EPs, live albums, etc., sticker, you name it. It feels like Christmas opening one of these up because so much stuff comes out. It's nice to feel like sometimes the record labels and artists _really_ appreciate the consumer's hard-earned cash.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> Ya that is another reason I went with Bandcamp. They use PayPal. And since those download cards cost next to nothing to get (50 cents a unit I think), they are the main thing we are going to experiment with.
> 
> I'd like to test the waters on iTunes, but I am just not sure at this point if the intial fees (for a submission service) and the % they take would be worth it. It would be good for exposure, but at this point in time that money would likely be better invested in a short run of CD's. If we weren't so constricted by budget, I'd just throw a release up there and see what happens.


My 2 cents....I think in terms of exposure you should go with iTunes. Even if you give your best song away as one of the free downloads (bear in mind I have no idea how iTunes operates). iTunes has to be one of the most frequented sites for purchasing music online. Someone may stumble across your music, like it, and buy your entire library  BTW what are the initial fees for submission and what are they charging for %?


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Stratin2traynor said:


> My 2 cents....I think in terms of exposure you should go with iTunes. Even if you give your best song away as one of the free downloads (bear in mind I have no idea how iTunes operates). iTunes has to be one of the most frequented sites for purchasing music online. Someone may stumble across your music, like it, and buy your entire library  BTW what are the initial fees for submission and what are they charging for %?


The 2 big services for this seem to be Tunecore and CD Baby. I am going to paste a quote from a blog about their pricing schemes, though I think Tunecore has switched their pricing to a flat rate recently:



> > CD Baby charges a one-time fee of $35/album and takes (along with the service they syndicate to, such as iTunes) 9% for each purchased track (so, someone buys a $0.99 track and you get $0.63).
> >
> > Tunecore charges $19.98/yr per album (that's a recurring fee) plus one-time fees of $0.99/track. But, they give you 100% of the royalties after iTunes or whoever takes their cut.


I think CB Baby also has a barcode fee of $20 that is not mentioned in the post I am quoting from.

So as you can see, it's not just a case of getting a song up there for exposure if you have any budget concerns. If you are not selling anything, it's costing you money. With the price of the downloads, you have to sell quite a few just to make your money back. In my band's case for example, since we don't tour, and only play about 10 times a year, I don't think we'd even recoup that money. iTunes does not have an nice engine like say Pandora, where it will recommend music. The odds of people randomly finding the track is slim. The $50 would be better spent going towards a short run of CD's in our case. 

Trying out Bandcamp's system costs nothing though, so it's worth experimenting with. Using my band for an example again, if we sell a few of those download cards, which I think is possible, that's instant profit.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Generally I just buy CDs and rip them to iTunes, but I have used the iTunes store to buy a coupld of songs. For example, I wanted the Green Day version of John Lennon's "Working Class Hero" but it was only available on a Darfur relief double CD compilation featuring all kinds of artists I have little interest in, costing $32.

I bought the song for less than $2


As long as I pay for the music I'm comfortable with downloads, but prefer CDs.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I guess my other interest in all of this is that I hate CD's. I love my vinyl because of the packaging, and even though I don't always listen to the records, I enjoy leafing through them. I have no interest in the packaging on most of my CD's. 

They basically get ripped onto my computer, then sit on a shelf and never get looked at. I don't use them in my car because I'd rather make disposable mix cd's, rip 10 hours worth of music onto an mp3 cd, or just plug my iPod or Phone into the car radio. In the house I use iTunes (through the AppleTV into my surround sound system) because I love using all of my playlists, and listening by genre etc. All my cd's are in my iTunes library. The CD's are just becoming useless for me.

I personally look forward to the days when the CD format is extinct lol.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> ...
> 
> I personally look forward to the days when the CD format is extinct lol.


That day will be a digital day. People will come to your concert, they will hold up their phones, in 1 second they will have your album and you will have their paypal transaction, and that will be all there is to it. Enjoy what can be cradled while it exists in a form that can be, because like the horse and buggy, it is fast becoming a quaint thing of the past.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

iTunes once in a while. For example, other than ordering from his website, getting Joscho Stephan is impossible out here in the sticks, so iTunes is the answer. My buying habits have diminished since I discovered online radio a few years ago.

Peace, Mooh.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

keeperofthegood said:


> That day will be a digital day. People will come to your concert, they will hold up their phones, in 1 second they will have your album and you will have their paypal transaction, and that will be all there is to it. Enjoy what can be cradled while it exists in a form that can be, because like the horse and buggy, it is fast becoming a quaint thing of the past.


Some things vanish because they are just an inferior product/format though. In the case of CD, DVD, and Blu-ray, I believe that is the case. When these formats dissapear, I will have no nostalgia for them. There is so much more potential for digital and on-demand services. They are still in the infancy, they can't be judged solely based on what they offer at this time. They are already pretty cool though, and within 5 years will be mind blowing.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

What do you figure the future is for places like CDBaby and the like? Where unsigned bands can upload tunes for sale? Growing or not going to make it?


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> What do you figure the future is for places like CDBaby and the like? Where unsigned bands can upload tunes for sale? Growing or not going to make it?


I am super impressed with Bandcamp. The feature set is fantastic. You can upload your songs in Wav, and people can buy in Wav, Flac, MP3... everything. You can include something like 500 MB of extras with your albums as well, so you can include videos, PDF books, Art... anything you want. I am blown away by the site. That is just one service as well. CD Baby is a cool service in a different way. Making it more than just a 'download' is the way to go. People need to take advantage of the technology.

.... but the problem is people have enough problems trusting a huge service like iTunes at this point. It will be a long time before people trust smaller services. They take PayPal, so transaction wise it's secure. But again, online people only trust huge companies. Which is a shame because paying $1 a track for crappy lossy file formats is kind of ridiculous. If there is an option available to get the same material in CD quality, people should ideally use it.

I THINK the download cards these services offer are the one thing people do go for, and that have potential. I know because I have seen people buy them at shows. They are more comfortable handing money to someone in person and getting something handed to them. I have seen bands include them with their 7"s, but I have also seen bands do up neat packaging to put the card into. I personally think they are super cool. I'd buy one over a CD in a lot of cases, especially if they present them in some neat way.

Here is the reality of the situation though from my experiments so far though:

- I just posted my bands new CD to Bandcamp. I put the link up on a few forums I use and our Facebook page. Not a single sale yet. I have bought albums from iTunes when members have posted them on various forum I use. I buy them even if I am not a huge fan of the music just to support them. Our E.P. is $4 on Bandcamp and we haven't had a sale yet though lol. I don't know if the results would be any different using iTunes or not. I would like to experiment, I just can't afford to drop the cash to submit the music.

- If this was a CD release show, and we came with 50 E.P.'s at the same price? We would probably sell most of them.

Anyway, it's all really interesting to me. I am really curious to see what happens with a lot of these services. Bottom line, Canada needs a subscription service. If people can pay a set monthly fee and download what they want, I think more of the people who are 'on the fence' would go for it. It would benefit bands as well because sites like Pandora have cool music recommendation engines ("if you liked that, you might like this" type of thing). If you put a couple of tracks on a service like that, you are way more likely to get exposure. And that can lead to someone tracking down your other stuff and buying it.


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## AlcolmX (Oct 12, 2009)

I've never payed for mp3s online. The one time I attempted to buy mp3s through iTunes, I was unable to do so because I am located in Canada. Why iTunes would limit downloads to a specific region is beyond me... the band was independent and I'm sure would have been happy for the sale. I could have ordered the CD from the band's myspace page, but CDs are a waste of space and materials, so I sought out an alternate method for downloading the music which unfortunately didn't benefit the band.

PS: If their music was available on vinyl I would purchase it without hesitation.
PPS: Great band: Satisfaction. Discovered them through the Creepy Fingers myspace page.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

AlcolmX said:


> I've never payed for mp3s online. The one time I attempted to buy mp3s through iTunes, I was unable to do so because I am located in Canada. Why iTunes would limit downloads to a specific region is beyond me... the band was independent and I'm sure would have been happy for the sale. I could have ordered the CD from the band's myspace page, but CDs are a waste of space and materials, so I sought out an alternate method for downloading the music which unfortunately didn't benefit the band.
> 
> PS: If their music was available on vinyl I would purchase it without hesitation.
> PPS: Great band: Satisfaction. Discovered them through the Creepy Fingers myspace page.


This must have been back before iTunes had service in Canada. For the first few years it was running, it wasn't available in Canada. Now it's the same service though. Other than some restrictions buying TV shows I think.


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## AlcolmX (Oct 12, 2009)

torndownunit said:


> This must have been back before iTunes had service in Canada. For the first few years it was running, it wasn't available in Canada. Now it's the same service though. Other than some restrictions buying TV shows I think.


No this was within the past year.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Well being that it's recent then, that won't be an iTunes issue. The bands and labels decide where stuff can be distributed. Same with the TV shows and the networks.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

The farce known as the Digital Millennium Copyright Act is to blame for the "not available in your country". It is the same with European nations that have also adopted that piece of **** ****** *** ******* ***! use your imagination what I have to say about that


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