# Cheap Trick cancel gig in Vancouver



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

They have cancelled their gig in Vancouver becuase the stage is being supplied by the same company that supplied the stages in Ottawa. I dont think their current popularity would afford them too many reasons to cancel any gigs.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Once bitten, twice shy, eh?
Just as well, though. I think it's hard to put on a good show if you have one eye on the stage structure all the time. Kinda throws your game off. At some point, the MoL report may well clear the company and stage structure, and it'll all work out, but until then I don't think anyone blames them for being a little reticent.


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

Obviously the Tricksters do!!

CT.


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

I'm not sure there are many stage suppliers in Canada... Not that I'm an expert in stages...


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## edward (Jan 27, 2009)

Tough to sue the stage company when you're still playing on their stages.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

Absolutely, I wouldn't work on a job site that is unsafe.

I remember hearing that the stage was checked daily for safety and wasn't supposed to have any issues. I feel like the storm that approached (apparently pretty quickly) would have been outside of those tolerances. Maybe the safety standards of the stage need to be updated.

A sound tech friend of mine who had worked that stage the night before posted a blog post about the stage falling (Nobody died, gear is replaceable, now let’s move on and learn from it. | Brad Ferguson) - Most of his post was about the crew under the stage. Apparently it's pretty common for festival crew to hang hammocks under the stage to rest on between work periods.. There's some photos on there as well.

View attachment 535


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

I just saw this on Exclaim.ca

[video=youtube;gCwNKox0uXE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=gCwNKox0uXE[/video]


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

I doubt that the weather event that occurred in Ottawa is commonplace, especially in Vancouver. I'm sure there aren't that many staging companies in Canada and I'd bet the equipment and staging track record is pretty good. You can't design for and prevent every catastrophic event there is. Life's a risk. Get over it.


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## CSBen (Mar 1, 2011)

Wonder if CT is still using the HUGE banner they had up at the Ottawa show...i mean, that combine with a 90km sudden gust of wind must have had nothing to do with it.....right?

I can appreciate the fact that if they intend to sue the staging company that playing a show where the said company is the supplier would be pretty ironic, not to say pretty damm stupid from a lawsuit point of view..

I'm no expert in the matter, but I'll venture a guess that the once the report comes out from the incident that their banner will be mentionned in it...


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

Another one down. Bigger and deadlier than Ottawa.

..INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — Four people are dead and a dozen were injured after a stage collapsed during a storm at the Indiana State Fair, where the country group Sugarland was set to perform. 

The Indianapolis Star and WTHR reports that strong winds caused the stage rigging for the outdoor concert to collapse at the fairgrounds Saturday night in Indianapolis. Fans were trapped and injured in the incident shortly before 9 p.m. It happened before the band had taken the stage. 

Details on the conditions of those injured were not immediately known. 

The Star reports that thousands of concert-goers were being evacuated to a nearby building because of high winds when the rigging for the stage fell onto the track where some were seated. 

Four Dead After Stage Collapses at Sugarland Show in Indiana | TMZ.com


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It seems we got off VERY lucky here in Ottawa. We got Youtube videos to show each other, but happily no funerals to attend.

That's awful what happened there.


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

Agreed - plus I would assume there would be more kids around at a state fair environment than what was in Ottawa.

Yikes.

Indianapolis stage collapse compiled raw footage w/ State Fire radio audio - YouTube


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Your heart just sinks when you see that.

There seem to be a few significant differences between that and the Ottawa scenario.

One is obviously that the stage collapsed forward rather than backward, as it did in Ottawa. Not that there were no people behind the Ottawa stage, but there was a crowd in front of the Indianapolis one. Had it fallen forward at the same speed in Ottawa, I'm sure folks would have been hurt and possibly killed as well.

A second factor is that, while the clouds looked every bit as ominous as the ones that floated in from the Gatineau side here, our show was a pre-dusk one, while theirs is clearly a night-time show. I have a feeling that the ugliness of the clouds was far more apparent for us - in the *absence* of the floodlights - than it was for them. Looking at the footage, the floodlights just make everything look so..._normal_. I suspect that influenced the crowd's ability to react and get out of the way in time.

A third factor is that the Ottawa crowds had somewhere to go to, since it was an open area, while the Indianapolis crowds were somewhat hemmed in, and seated. In Ottawa, folks started migrating to the War Museum the moment the winds started picking up. (Indeed, I completely missed the actual collapse because I had momentarily turned to watch all the folks quickly scooting towards there.) And once the people at the back started leaving, the folks at the front started moving back. They could do so easily because there were no seats other than the folding lawn chairs some had brought. You can see the folks at the edges of the preferred seating at the front starting to get out of the way, but all those people seated in the middle were screwed. You'd like to think that paying good money gets you a good view up close, but I suspect that any coroner's inquiry will likely make some recommendations about required space between the front row and the stage.

Quite apart from physical opportunity to evacuate quickly, and the illusion of normalcy created by the floodlights, I suspect there was maybe half the time to react in Indianapolis as there was in Ottawa, and given how little there was in Ottawa, that's not a lot. Looking at the video, there is about 7 seconds between "Man, it's too windy to sit out here" and "Ohmygod, the stage is starting to come down!"

Finally, and I think this was the biggest factor, the stage structure itself was at least twice as big as the one at Bluesfest. The roof structure indicates that it goes back farther than the Bluesfest stage, and the mass of those beams is what made it so deadly.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Can't blame Cheap Trick.

I saw the Indianapolis story on a news page I check out.

It makes you feel sick to think people went there for entertainment & fun, and some didn't get to leave and others get injured--and their friends & family have to deal with that.

Maybe there are storms that are outside of normal tolerances, and maybe they're rare--but if I was playing outdoors I would want well above the legal tolerance, unfortunately I don't know how the audience can find that out.

I have to agree with the blog on the crew & the hammocks, that they would be thinking twice and they may not be allowed down there.
I've seen people under the stage before--but never in hammocks.
They were coming to the front to throw pies at the opening act.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Whats with these sudden wind storms this year

[video=youtube;SRkdwrmzYXg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=SRkdwrmzYXg[/video]


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

My son is a civil engineer (though I should qualify that as _starting out _as a civil engineer). He is adamant that these structures are designed "based on tables" that take into account the 50-year records of maximum weather conditions, and factor in some percentage (30-40%) above that. We've argued about it but he also insists that things like possible additions to the stage (like the Cheap Trick fabric backdrop I have babbled on about) are factored in as well. His stance is that either a) the tables used to generate the design are wrong, or b) someone wasn't following assembly procedure, or c) someone made an impromptu and undocumented modification to the design during construction. His tendency is to presume that A is unlikely, that professional crew would make B fairly unlikely, leaving C.

As much respect as I have for him and his chosen field, I am still of the impression that you can only design for what you understand and know about, and even rigorously adhered-to-standards of design and construction can come up short from time to time.

I think it is also the case that these structures are put into use pretty damn quickly after construction. The idea that one could get the all-clear to live in a house some 5-6 days after it _started_ being built, is preposterous. And while I have no doubt the safety inspectors are doing their job well and sincerely, that kind of build -> use time frame doesn't really allow one to catch stuff on the 3rd and 4th go around that maybe you missed on the 1st and 2nd.


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## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It would probably help if we, as consumers, weren't so eager for "spectacle". Keep in mind it is the size of the show that requires the size of the stage, and it is the size of the stage that determines the size of risk.

The stage I saw Richard Thompson on at Bluesfest a couple of years ago could have collapsed completely, and the worst that would have happened is a sprained ankle for someone or some splinters.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

I think the main problem is the scaffold type staging in general. There was another "main" stage there and it was an SL550 or SL600. It suffered no damage whatsoever...why? Because it's the type of stage that is the trailor it came in on. The struts holding the roof up are massive hydrolic posts. The only way a wind would take it down was if it rolled the entire thing over. Unlikely...
That Berger stage had several tons of equipment flown off it's scaffolding. Compound that with the controversy around whether the flaps gave way as they were supposed to during the storm and that it wouldn't have made a difference even if they had as some claim, you get the idea that it just might have been an accident waiting to happen. The festival had trouble with their stages before but not to this degree. 
Unfortunately, I believe your correct Mark. It's the risk that everyone is willing to take for the spectacle this type of stage provides.


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

Just heard another one in Belgium came down today;

Stage Collapses at Pukkelpop Festival, Two People Reportedly Dead - Spinner


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

The year of the collapsing outdoor stage rigging.


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