# Please Recommend A 16-Channel Board



## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...small, portable and affordable, with at least 12 xlr inputs.

thanks!

-dh


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

David,

This one may may suitable. I have the 22 channel model and have had very positive results with it.


http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?id=39&cat=11&type=31


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

What are you using it for?


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Hamm Guitars said:


> What are you using it for?


...sorry, live sound in bars, thus the need for portability.

miking drums, electric guitar, two acoustics, persussion, three vocals and a stereo feed from a cd player.

-dh


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Milkman said:


> David,
> This one may may suitable. I have the 22 channel model and have had very positive results with it.
> http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?id=39&cat=11&type=31


...yorkville - i like it!!!

i'd prefer a non-powered mixer - i'll check the site.

-dh


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Mackie Onyx 1640. A little more expensive, has a firewire adapter that you can purchase at a later date for recording. It has better quality preamps, IMO.


.02


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

I've got an older Mackie 1601 that has been a great workhorse. It's been gigged and rigged and keeps on ticking.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2007)

I'd say Yorkville if you're budget is really tight. But if you've got a bit more budget: Soundcraft Spirit or MPM. I find they're preamps sound a heckuva lot warmer than Mackie's SDR pre's on their VLZ boards. There's my $0.02 on it.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

iaresee said:


> I'd say Yorkville if you're budget is really tight. But if you've got a bit more budget: Soundcraft Spirit or MPM. I find they're preamps sound a heckuva lot warmer than Mackie's SDR pre's on their VLZ boards. There's my $0.02 on it.



...i checked the yorkville site and all their mixers are powered (ie extremely heavy and awkward!), unfortunately.

for live sound, at _this_ stage, i don't need i don't need mind-blowing quality, although a degree of reliablity is crucial. 

this looks like the one:

Mackie 1604-VLZ Pro - $1100 (USD - msrp)


-dh


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...i checked the yorkville site and all their mixers are powered (ie extremely heavy and awkward!), unfortunately.
> 
> for live sound, at _this_ stage, i don't need i don't need mind-blowing quality, although a degree of reliablity is crucial.
> 
> ...


Why is that a problem?

You do have the option of reassigning the power amps to drive monitors or whatever and of course there are line level outputs so you can bypass the power section altogether.

It does make the board a bit heavy I suppose.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Why is that a problem?
> You do have the option of reassigning the power amps to drive monitors or whatever and of course there are line level outputs so you can bypass the power section altogether.
> It does make the board a bit heavy I suppose.


...i've handled powered boards a lot. the yorkville is 76 pounds. i'm just not going to put myself through that, unnecessarily. i do so wish yorkville offered un-powered boards - i prefer to deal with local/canadian companies.

-dh


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...i checked the yorkville site and all their mixers are powered (ie extremely heavy and awkward!), unfortunately.
> 
> for live sound, at _this_ stage, i don't need i don't need mind-blowing quality, although a degree of reliablity is crucial.
> 
> ...


I'd still go for the Onyx, better preamps, EQ and I love the firewire option. But I'm sounding like a broken record now. :smile:


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...i've handled powered boards a lot. the yorkville is 76 pounds. i'm just not going to put myself through that, unnecessarily. i do so wish yorkville offered un-powered boards - i prefer to deal with local/canadian companies.
> 
> -dh


I guess it's a bit heavy. For me it doesn't make a big difference when you look at the rest of the stuff we drag around.

I also wish they made non powered boards as well.

I'm going to be moving to a bigger board sometime this year (more channels) and I'm at the top of Yorkvilles boards now. Too bad really. In spite of other opinions I love the sound of the Yorkie preamps. The board in general is very transparent sounding to my ears.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2007)

david henman said:


> ...i checked the yorkville site and all their mixers are powered (ie extremely heavy and awkward!), unfortunately.


Of all the things you have to haul into a gig it probably won't be the heaviest. You do get a great price on Yorkville's in Canada and you can opt not to use the power amp, or use it for a monitor mix like Milkman suggested.



> Mackie 1604-VLZ Pro - $1100 (USD - msrp)


Definitely a staple mixer out there. I don't think I've seen a rehearsal hall without one. If you can I suggest A/B'ing it on vocals with a Soundcraft FX16ii or EFX. I think the pre's on the Soundcraft boards are far less sterile.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2007)

Milkman said:


> I guess it's a bit heavy. For me it doesn't make a big difference when you look at the rest of the stuff we drag around.


:smile: You beat me to it!


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Would you consider a digital board? You can pick up a used Yamaha 01v for $700~$800.

I have used one for live gigs for a couple of years. It is nice having all of the effects and dynamics on-board. Being able to save your setup for different gigs is also a real time saver.

There is a bit of a learning curve to learn the menu functions.


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

I've used a promix and an 01V live. The promix is actually better for live sound but both mixers tend to start putting out digital trash in harsh (ie hot, humid bars) environments as the night wears on. I was all for using the digital boards, but after one summer, I went back to the analog boards.

For a small 16 channel mixer, I would suggest Soundcraft, Allen & Heath or Mackie. Berhinger also makes mixers that are cost effective, I've seen them, but never used one.

I actually personally don't like Mackie boards, but I've used allot of them and they do get the job done and they hold up for years. They are pretty much the standard in the smaller rigs.

A good feature to look for is a high pass filter on every channel (it rolls off everything under 80Hz or so) and two sweepable EQ's.

Beware of really cheap brands as they usually sound cheap.

Besides Yorkville, I can't think of anyone in Canada making consoles.


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## bluecoyote (May 18, 2007)

david henman said:


> ...i checked the yorkville site and all their mixers are powered (ie extremely heavy and awkward!), unfortunately.
> 
> for live sound, at _this_ stage, i don't need i don't need mind-blowing quality, although a degree of reliablity is crucial.
> 
> ...



The 1604-VLZ is a very nice mixer. The last generation of Mackie VLZ boards are fairly inexpensive now that the new models have come out. These used boards go for about half of the retail price. 

I have a 16 track Yamaha MG16/6FX which retails for about $800 at Long & McQuade. It sounds great and has worked flawlessly for a couple of years now. Has great effects on it too. It is also pretty light. Worth checking out.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

bluecoyote said:


> The 1604-VLZ is a very nice mixer. The last generation of Mackie VLZ boards are fairly inexpensive now that the new models have come out. These used boards go for about half of the retail price.
> I have a 16 track Yamaha MG16/6FX which retails for about $800 at Long & McQuade. It sounds great and has worked flawlessly for a couple of years now. Has great effects on it too. It is also pretty light. Worth checking out.


...the MG24/14FX has 16 mono microphone/line channels. i like the fact that it has built-in yamaha effects, which are quite good.

i also like the fact that yamaha has a service department in scarborough - that is a huge plus.

thanks for the tip. 

-dh


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

affordable... behringer...http://www.behringer.com/PMH5000/index.cfm?lang=eng


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

KHINGPYNN said:


> affordable... behringer...http://www.behringer.com/PMH5000/index.cfm?lang=eng



This one looks like an amazing value. If it's any good at all it's worth more than that.

http://www.behringer.com/SL3242FX-PRO/index.cfm?lang=eng


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

Behringer is not the best stuff out theere for sure but very capable for the working man on a budget. I use it with good results thus far.

Khing


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

KHINGPYNN said:


> Behringer is not the best stuff out theere for sure but very capable for the working man on a budget. I use it with good results thus far.
> 
> Khing



I've heard a couple of FOH mixes using Behringer boards and was surprised at how good they sounded.

Really in my opinion so much depends on the guy behind the board. I've heard some Baaaaaad sounds come out of some high end boards. I'm not necessarily sold on the Behringers, but the price is hard to believe. I spoke to a friend and colleague who uses one and he claims their warranty is as good as Yorkville's (which is bulletproof) and that they basically replace the whole board if any major components fail.

I'll keep it on my short list.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

KHINGPYNN said:


> affordable... behringer...http://www.behringer.com/PMH5000/index.cfm?lang=eng


...again, i have no interest in a powered mixer.

however, this one looks good:

http://www.behringer.com/MX3242X/index.cfm?lang=eng

i hadn't considered behringer, due to rumours of unreliability. i'll talk with a couple of dealers and insiders to see what they say.

-dh


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I paid a visit to my local shop at lunch time and discussed a few boards with them.

*They advised me STRONGLY against Behringer for all the reasons we tend to hear as rumours.*
Bad quality and even worse service. They were a Behringer dealer and have stopped selling their stuff altogether. I guess there's a reason it costs a third of Mackie with similar specs.

I've dealt with these guys for decades and have a prety good relationship with them. I believe what they say for the most part.

Just a heads up.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

DH, have you looked any local used stuff? From everything I've read it seems your budget is really limiting you.

Just a thought...


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

I agree with Milkman 100% on this.

One of the companies I do sound work for uses Behringer gear and more often than not, it is not fully functional (one side of a compressor is funky, don't touch that knob and so on).

It's cheap, and I suppose it serves a purpose. Some argue that if you get a few years out of one, you are ahead financially, which may be true. I keep hearing that their quality is getting better, but I have yet to see any improvement in my travels.

It would be nice if they did get their act together though, because the prices are pretty good. 





Milkman said:


> I paid a visit to my local shop at lunch time and discussed a few boards with them.
> 
> *They advised me STRONGLY against Behringer for all the reasons we tend to hear as rumours.*
> Bad quality and even worse service. They were a Behringer dealer and have stopped selling their stuff altogether. I guess there's a reason it costs a third of Mackie with similar specs.
> ...


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## bluecoyote (May 18, 2007)

*Sometimes stuff just works!*

You all know that beating up on Behringer is a popular past-time on many music boards. I am not that big a fan of their stuff and I only have one piece of equipment made by them. A Compressor, the Composer Pro XL. It has been in my rack for a few years and it has been through hell. In an out of trucks, roughly tweeked by guitarists and drummers alike and in an out of all kinds of stinky and dumpy bars! It still works great on both sides! All the blinkin' lights are still blinkin' and buttons are still on! Sure it was cheap but ... Sometimes stuff just works and keeps on working - must have been made on a good day!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

bluecoyote said:


> You all know that beating up on Behringer is a popular past-time on many music boards. I am not that big a fan of their stuff and I only have one piece of equipment made by them. A Compressor, the Composer Pro XL. It has been in my rack for a few years and it has been through hell. In an out of trucks, roughly tweeked by guitarists and drummers alike and in an out of all kinds of stinky and dumpy bars! It still works great on both sides! All the blinkin' lights are still blinkin' and buttons are still on! Sure it was cheap but ... Sometimes stuff just works and keeps on working - must have been made on a good day!


I'm not one to join the chorus when it comes to what gear to use. 

I was pretty close to pulling the trigger on a 32 channel Eurodesk and listened to the advice of a dealer I've worked with for a long time.He told me some pretty bad tales of service (or lack thereof).


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> DH, have you looked any local used stuff? From everything I've read it seems your budget is really limiting you.
> Just a thought...


...actually, i _can_ afford a new mixer. what i _can't_ afford is unreliability, so i'll probably avoid behringer. yamaha is my first choice, because there is a huge yamaha head office in scarborough, which houses a service department. as well, i know a few folks at yamaha. if yorkville made an un-powered mixer, i'd consider that, as well.

-dh


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