# Pod XT Rig (Lets brain storm)



## cohenj (Feb 7, 2006)

This thread is not for the tube heads. Yes, yes. I know that tube amps sound better. I'm not disputing that. OK? Now lets talk Pod.

I have a Pod XT and love its sound for recording and through headphones. I have performed with it going direct to a P.A. and that works pretty well, but often our gigs don't have enough P.A. for that to work effectively.

Guitars are an american strat with Fender noiseless pickups and a Godin Freeway Classic.

I can't afford a good tube amp. Wish I could, but I can't.

So, I'm thinking of putting together a stage rig based on the pod. I checked out the Atomic Amp and found it to be lacking in power, but it sounded pretty good.

The question is: What combination of speaker cabinet(s) and solid state power amp would give me results that are close to the recorded or headphoned sound of my Pod XT?

I thought that I might build two seperate 1X12 sealed enclosures and use something like the Crate Power Block, or maybe just a Carvin or Yamaha P.A. power amp, and my Pod XT as the front end. With two 1x12 cabs, I could go with one cab for smaller gigs and rehearsals, two cabs for larger gigs with the added benefit of being able to run the pod in stereo.

Discuss.


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## SCREEM (Feb 2, 2006)

get a yorkville powered speaker or 2 for stereo...the 250 watter should be fine. most music stores rent them, they are tuff and reliable.


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## SinCron (Mar 2, 2006)

I tried the XT Live and found it to be a great tool but I still prefer the good ol head, cab and a few pedals.


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## bucky (Mar 4, 2006)

To get a sound closest to what you are achieving through headphones, you want to get an amplification setup that's as neutral as possible. Try to find a used P.A. system.


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## cohenj (Feb 7, 2006)

*Pod amp*



SCREEM said:


> get a yorkville powered speaker or 2 for stereo...the 250 watter should be fine. most music stores rent them, they are tuff and reliable.


I'll look into that. Thanks.


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

Man you guys kill me. He said he can`t afford a decent tube amp, but with the ideas I`ve read here, he can get a great tube amp for the price of some of the ideas here. I paid $350 for my Traynor Guitarmate, and it sounds better than a lot of boutique offerings, never mind a Pod and a used PA. And as much as I hate Blues Jr`s, I`d buy one of those before anything solid state.

CT.


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## cohenj (Feb 7, 2006)

CocoTone said:


> Man you guys kill me. He said he can`t afford a decent tube amp, but with the ideas I`ve read here, he can get a great tube amp for the price of some of the ideas here. I paid $350 for my Traynor Guitarmate, and it sounds better than a lot of boutique offerings, never mind a Pod and a used PA. And as much as I hate Blues Jr`s, I`d buy one of those before anything solid state.
> 
> CT.


You should read the original post of a thread before responding. I stated that I would prefer a good tube amp, but I don't have the bucks for a Fender Twin Reverb, Vibrolux or other high end tube amp. The amps you cited in your arguement are not by any stretch of the imagination more desireable that a POD/PA or Solid State amp solution. I grew up in the era of Traynors. Those amp sounded like crap. Any of the surviving Traynors from that period only sound good after having been heavily modified. The Blues Junior is a one trick pony with just enough power for rehearsal purposes. 

I have run my pod through a PA in circumstances where the PA was big enough. Non-musicians complimented the sound. Musicians asked where I was hiding my Fender Twin Reverb. So, I know it is possible to get a more than acceptable sound this way. 

My question is about what to do when the PA is not adequate and I must use stage amplication. I never asked your opinion about tube amps versus modellers. That's not what this thread is about.

To your point, I would say that there isn't a tube amp tha I like more than my Pod solution for less than $1000.00. The only one that has come close so far has been one of thos Vox hybrids for about $600.00. Since I already own the Pod, I'd rather spend a few hundred dollars for a solid state solution than $1000.00 on a tube amp.

Of course, in the time I'm taken to reply to you, I probably could have been out there earning money ... It's somewhat of a circular argument.

I'll tell you...I'm tempted to go out and buy myself a fender twin, just so that I don't have to listen to the tube heads whine...

Jeff


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## Adicted to Tubes (Mar 5, 2006)

A traynor sounds like crap!!??!!??
i have a Traynor guitar mate from 1969 that sounds fabulous.My 'heavily modified' changes?A celestion greenback speaker.
It has a nice reverb and tremelo and absolutely sounds amazing.

I found the biggest problem with some old traynor's was the speaker.The original Marseland speakers sounded nasal and weak.A good speaker and a service will cure most Traynor's ills and they sound better than a Blues jr,hot rod deluxe and most other of todays' tube amps.
I guess it realy depends on what kind of music you are playing and whether it's live or not.And you mentioned your guitars;a fender strat with noiseless pickups and a godin freeway classic.The fender sounds awfull to me,the godin is a keeper.You have access to a PA system when you gig and even a smaller tube amp would fill the bill when going through the PA system.How about a champ with a 12" speaker?
Plenty loud enough without the PA.With the PA? The sky's the limit.
www.claramps.com


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

S'ok by me. Let him keep his pod. I`ll keep using my shitty Traynor, that's heavily modded. Ignorance is bliss.

CT.


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## Adicted to Tubes (Mar 5, 2006)

To be realistic,there are some good effects in a pod,but I would rather have it go into a good tube amp from the pod.We all use pedals to some extent and a Pod is just a glorified pedal,right?It's a tool like anything else.If it's used properly it will give satisfying results.If it's used totally solid state all through the chain,it can sound very digital and processed.some people actually like that tone.I don't personally,but we have to bend a little to experience new things once in awhile and not be closed minded to things.

www.claramps.com evilGuitar:


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## cohenj (Feb 7, 2006)

*Disappointed*

I'm disappointed that this thread turned into yet antoher tirade by the tube heads, instead of focusing in on the topic of my original post. 

I was looking for help in finding the best solution to a particular problem. I never asked for your well known opinions on tubes vs. solid state. Guess I should have known better.

Bye.


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## Adicted to Tubes (Mar 5, 2006)

You've passed the initiation test!Seriously,the Crate power block is a good amplifier in itself and it is designed for the Pod to go into it.You can get any speaker designed for guitar amps,even a PA speaker and it will do what you need it to do.
Yes,we are a bunch of tube heads for sure.But there is a reason.Me in particular,I have gone down the road you are going down now.I used to have an effects processor and a Rack mounted solid state Rexx amplifier.It was plenty good enough for what I was doing with it at the time.As time went on,I 'discovered' tube amps.It really depends what you need.If you play lots of covers,you need effects of some kind.if you play the blues,you need a tube amp and a guitar.
But,buying a Crate Power block still requires that you go out and get a speaker cabinet of some kind.If tha's in your budget,then it's do-able.
If you were to pick up a fender bassman or something low cost and high powered,and put the pod in front or through the effects loop,it will sound better than the Crate for sure.The choice is yours to make.Effects sound better through a tube amp.Period.that's my opinion.nothing more or nothing less.


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

I have come across many guys who have tried what you are about to try. A Pod into a tube amp= dissappointing tones. The guitar on its own, with nothing in between, would be more pleasing to the ear. I' m not trying to rain on your thread, but I honestly can't see how you can not find a more toneful solution. Ever try to coax musical feedback with digitzed modelling?? You can`t!! I wouldn`t be able to play like myself without that kind of interaction between amp, guitar and player.

But what do I know??

CT.:wave:


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## cohenj (Feb 7, 2006)

Adicted to Tubes said:


> You've passed the initiation test!Seriously,the Crate power block is a good amplifier in itself and it is designed for the Pod to go into it.You can get any speaker designed for guitar amps,even a PA speaker and it will do what you need it to do.
> Yes,we are a bunch of tube heads for sure.But there is a reason.Me in particular,I have gone down the road you are going down now.I used to have an effects processor and a Rack mounted solid state Rexx amplifier.It was plenty good enough for what I was doing with it at the time.As time went on,I 'discovered' tube amps.It really depends what you need.If you play lots of covers,you need effects of some kind.if you play the blues,you need a tube amp and a guitar.
> But,buying a Crate Power block still requires that you go out and get a speaker cabinet of some kind.If tha's in your budget,then it's do-able.
> If you were to pick up a fender bassman or something low cost and high powered,and put the pod in front or through the effects loop,it will sound better than the Crate for sure.The choice is yours to make.Effects sound better through a tube amp.Period.that's my opinion.nothing more or nothing less.


I was just looking at an ebay auction that included a Crate PowerBlock and Crate 1X12 Celestian cab for about $285 CDN (pre-shipping/customs). I was thinking of trying that and then maybe getting another 112 cab later on, so that I can do the stereo thing, or have an extra speaker for louder gigs.

I agree that if I were playing straight Blues, R&B, etc that a tube amp and guitar would be all I need. Unfortunately, I'm not. I play in an alt-folk-country band and have to play in a variety of styles.

I've tried the pod with several good tube amps. It actually works OK if you turn off the amp models and just use the affects. That said, I still can't afford the $1000.00 or so for what is to me an acceptable tube amp.

I did play a reasonably priced Vox Valvetronic (hybrid) that really sounded quite nice. For the $400 that I'll end up spending on a power block/cab solution, perhaps I should just get the Vox? I don't know.

In any event, thanks for your advice. It's well taken.

Jeff


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## cohenj (Feb 7, 2006)

CocoTone said:


> I have come across many guys who have tried what you are about to try. A Pod into a tube amp= dissappointing tones. The guitar on its own, with nothing in between, would be more pleasing to the ear. I' m not trying to rain on your thread, but I honestly can't see how you can not find a more toneful solution. Ever try to coax musical feedback with digitzed modelling?? You can`t!! I wouldn`t be able to play like myself without that kind of interaction between amp, guitar and player.
> 
> But what do I know??
> 
> CT.:wave:


I've recently discovered that if you turn off the amp and cab models and just use the POD for it's stomp box and modulation effects, it works fine with a tube amp. Of course, the problem remains that I can't afford the $1000 or so for what is to me an acceptable tube amp.

Actually, it is absolutely possible to get nice, musical feedback through a Pod XT. I do it all the time. The Pod's models were designed to have the same response curves as their name sakes.

For gigs where we have lots of PA headroom, I've had great success just playing the Pod through the P.A.

But as someone else pointed out, so much depends on the style of music that one is playing. I'm not playing Blues. My band's style depends on my ability to get a bunch of more modern tones and the Pod is well suited for that task.

Of course, if the gods lay some big money on me one day, I'll have both a good Tube amp (probably a Fender Twin or Vibrolux) and a POD in my rig.


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

How many well-respected players, known for their live tone, use a Pod or similar modelling set up?? All I know is, when I want good tone live, I go to a decent tube type amp. Perhaps one day, they will get it so that we don`t know the diff. Until then,,,etc

CT. :food-smiley-004:


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Jeff is taking a beating here. A single tube amp doesn't work for him, he plays a wide variety of music. The POD et al. are made for that purpose.

Some of the best cover bands I've heard were using modelers. It wasn't the best tone but they emulated the tone on individual songs closer than any single tube amp could pull off.

Let's try and find a solution for him everyone.


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## Adicted to Tubes (Mar 5, 2006)

Jeff,
the powerblock is available cheaper than that at local guitar shops in Calgary.I saw it for 249.00 at one of the higher priced stores in town here.I would check and see if L&M sells them.
The Vox Valvtronics is an excellent amp.the only thing is,the 60 watts is not as loud as an 18 watt tube amp.You should try one out at gigging volumes before buying one.I tried one out at my local L&M and it aslo had drastic level differences between effects.One was loud and others were quiet,so I had to row the volume on the amp a lot.
If you are close to a long & Mcquade,they can rent one out to you and you can try before you buy.An excellent way to find out if it's right for you.

www.claramps.com


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## cohenj (Feb 7, 2006)

CocoTone said:


> How many well-respected players, known for their live tone, use a Pod or similar modelling set up?? All I know is, when I want good tone live, I go to a decent tube type amp. Perhaps one day, they will get it so that we don`t know the diff. Until then,,,etc
> 
> CT. :food-smiley-004:


Too many to list here. One that springs to mind is Geddy Lee of Rush. You've probably seen the stack of laundry machines that he has behind him on stage. They grew out of a joke about how they would balance the stage look, since the guitarist uses a bunch of Marshall stacks and Geddy plays his bass through a Pod Bass processor. 

Then there's Trent Reznor, who runs a rather elaborate Pod setup. Must I go on?

Jeff


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## cohenj (Feb 7, 2006)

*Thanks*



Jeff Flowerday said:


> Jeff is taking a beating here. A single tube amp doesn't work for him, he plays a wide variety of music. The POD et al. are made for that purpose.
> 
> Some of the best cover bands I've heard were using modelers. It wasn't the best tone but they emulated the tone on individual songs closer than any single tube amp could pull off.
> 
> Let's try and find a solution for him everyone.


Thanks Jeff. That's OK. I expected as much. Like so many things in life, people feel compelled to draw lines in the sand. Tube amps are sort of like underwear. The audience really doesn't give a crap whether or not you're wearing boxers or briefs, so long as your jeans look nice. Its the same with amps. I have yet to hear a listener say "the band was great but that guitar guy obviously isn't using a tube amp...pity". 

In the late 70's I played in cover bands for years with nothing more than a Yamaha G100 212 solid state amp and a telecaster. No one ever complained. 
In fact, the one time my Yamaha was down and I had to rent an amp, I rented a Twin and then I did get complaints (that my guitarw as way too loud)...



Jeff


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## Adicted to Tubes (Mar 5, 2006)

For clean country a solid state amp at lower volumes can sound just fine.I have a customer who recently went through a couple of solid state amps to find his particular jazz tone.He was not too impressed with the quality of the sound,so he went out and got a Fender Blues Deluxe.It fit the bill for a while untill it broke down a couple of times.then he sought me out for an alternative.He ended up with a Traynor Guitar Mate with reverb and tremelo.We changed the crappy speaker to a Jensen C12R and he's as happy as a clam.It is clean all the way up on the dial and the tone is fabulous.
I have tried many solid state amps and for me,the tone was always missing something.My first real foray into tube amps was a Fender Deville.It was absolutely the best clean amp ever(at the time).I have never looked back since.I built a Tweed Deluxe for a country player with a larger OT in it and he swears by it.It was clean and loud and the dynamics and compression were stunning.
what part of the country do you live in?If you were in Calgary we could find you what you needed and make you smile.
Edit: Oops i see you are on Toronto.check out www.total-tone.com He knows where to get the great amps in Toronto.He's in Markham.

www.claramps.com


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

cohenj said:


> Too many to list here. One that springs to mind is Geddy Lee of Rush. You've probably seen the stack of laundry machines that he has behind him on stage. They grew out of a joke about how they would balance the stage look, since the guitarist uses a bunch of Marshall stacks and Geddy plays his bass through a Pod Bass processor.
> 
> Then there's Trent Reznor, who runs a rather elaborate Pod setup. Must I go on?
> 
> Jeff


Actually I thought Lee used a Sansamp, but same diff. Thats a Bass rig. Us guitarplayers ( least the ones looking for good tone) are looking for something with depth, warmth, and musical distortion to a certain extent. And Reznor isn`t even my radar, and I`ve never ever seen anything in any guitarmag or such saying anything about his tone.
As for you Cohenj, I`m not trying to draw a line is sand or challenge anything. Just trying to impart some info that I`ve picked up over thirty plus years of trying to find good tone. I could just shut up and let our friend struggle along with mediocre tone for the rest of his life. 

CT.


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

Adicted to Tubes said:


> For clean country a solid state amp at lower volumes can sound just fine.I have a customer who recently went through a couple of solid state amps to find his particular jazz tone.He was not too impressed with the quality of the sound,so he went out and got a Fender Blues Deluxe.It fit the bill for a while untill it broke down a couple of times.then he sought me out for an alternative.He ended up with a Traynor Guitar Mate with reverb and tremelo.We changed the crappy speaker to a Jensen C12R and he's as happy as a clam.It is clean all the way up on the dial and the tone is fabulous.
> I have tried many solid state amps and for me,the tone was always missing something.My first real foray into tube amps was a Fender Deville.It was absolutely the best clean amp ever(at the time).I have never looked back since.I built a Tweed Deluxe for a country player with a larger OT in it and he swears by it.It was clean and loud and the dynamics and compression were stunning.
> what part of the country do you live in?If you were in Calgary we could find you what you needed and make you smile.
> Edit: Oops i see you are on Toronto.check out www.total-tone.com He knows where to get the great amps in Toronto.He's in Markham.
> ...


Ah,,,another vote for the venerable Traynor Guitarmate. I`d better pick up another one before the price starts to go up on `em. Try to keep the noise down a bit about these jems will ya?? 

CT.


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## Adicted to Tubes (Mar 5, 2006)

CocoTone,

Ah it's sad,but true.Us 50+ yr olds have come full circle with the tone wars.The only thing I have that sounds better than my Traynor are my own amps.Those damn Traynors are well built.They just weight too much!
There is nothing that sounds like a tube amp.Nothing.


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## MaxWedge (Feb 24, 2006)

To be fair to cohenj the new digital stuff is getting better and someday it will be so good no one will know the difference. Wouldn't this be a good thing. I mean it would be great to have everything in one convenient peddle board that can be carried easily and plugged in where ever audio is available. I'm a typical arm chair guitar player. My amp is a Traynor Bass Mate. 99% of the time I play straight into the amp no effects, just guitar(a squire, ouch). And it sounds very nice. So I do appreciate tubes. But advancement does rely on the unreasonable man. So follow what ever path interests you. By the way, does anybody know what.....on second thought I'll start a new thread.:zzz:


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## cohenj (Feb 7, 2006)

CocoTone said:


> Actually I thought Lee used a Sansamp, but same diff. Thats a Bass rig. Us guitarplayers ( least the ones looking for good tone) are looking for something with depth, warmth, and musical distortion to a certain extent. And Reznor isn`t even my radar, and I`ve never ever seen anything in any guitarmag or such saying anything about his tone.
> As for you Cohenj, I`m not trying to draw a line is sand or challenge anything. Just trying to impart some info that I`ve picked up over thirty plus years of trying to find good tone. I could just shut up and let our friend struggle along with mediocre tone for the rest of his life.
> 
> CT.


If you would like to get off your soap box and comment on the subject of this thread, that would be great. I'm not disputing the superiority of tubes. Never was. Read the thread topic, then consider a response, or not. But please don't waste our time by speaking off-topic.

You know what? I think I'm going to quit (this ridiculas forum) before it becomes any more frustrating.

Bye all. Sorry that it didn't work out.


Jeff


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

cohenj said:


> If you would like to get off your soap box and comment on the subject of this thread, that would be great. I'm not disputing the superiority of tubes. Never was. Read the thread topic, then consider a response, or not. But please don't waste our time by speaking off-topic.
> 
> You know what? I think I'm going to quit (this ridiculas forum) before it becomes any more frustrating.
> 
> ...


Jeff, I'd prefer you don't leave us. You've added nothing but valuable information on alot of threads.

*Everyone else:*
Once again, if you don't have anything valueable to add to the original intent of this post, please don't post at all.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

A POD with the Crate PowerBlock, and some speakers is all you need. Put that combo in any good players hands and they will make it sound great. For the guys who preach tubes only, tone is in the fingers. Your walls arent filled with gold and platinum disks, so what you have formed is an uneducated opinion of what people want to hear, just an opinion of what you want to hear. Please feel free to have one, but dont expect us to take it as guitar law. Unlike bass players, most guitar players are like feeble old men, they clutch to one setup and never venture into anything new. Bass players on the other hand are always open to new ideas, and will try anything new that comes out. I think for some of you guys, you need to be more like the bass players, and less like Abraham Simpson...........

As for the POD, and Crate, its great, very portable, and versitle, sets up in under a minute.............


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

What did Lance Armstrong say to Cheryl Crow??

`I`m taking my ball and going home.`

CT.


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## Adicted to Tubes (Mar 5, 2006)

Jeff,
Please don't leave the forum.We get set in out ways when we get older.you need to take the good and bad together and not get bent out of shape whan you get comments that you don't like or agree with.
We are trying to share our experience with solid state and hope you don't take this as 'tubes or nothing'. We can be sarcastic too.For that I apologize.
When you do get your rig,we would like your comments on the tone.
i'm going down to the local guitar shop tomorrow and try a powerblock out.I will let you know the true skinny on it then.I will be obective.

www.claramps.com


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

C`mon Jeff!!

Lighten up. We are just trying to give you the straight up goods. In the end, your gonna end up with a good tube amp or a few anyways, so we`re just trying to save you some $$$ as well as hassle. Plus you`ve got to have a sense of humour, else you`ll pop a vein.

CT.:food-smiley-004:


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## ted13 (Mar 2, 2006)

I think these debates are interesting. as is any debate about what sounds "good". it's all in our heads. we likely won't ALL agree.

i think it is however safe to say a good tube amp sounds better than anything else. 

however we must remember a few things. 
1. he said in an earlier post he knows that the pod will give him an acceptable tone. now some of us are obsessed with getting the best tone ever! but he is looking for a reasonable setup to take advantage of what he's allready got.
2. pods (or other line6 products) are extremely versitile and do sound great in headphones and arguably for direct recording as well, at least for texture tracks and whatnot. 
3. Please focus on the fact that he is looking for an acceptable tone, and ways to make it even more flexible. note to others: not all of us will only accept the best tone ever or won't bother playing.

my observations. Line6 products NEVER sound full and punchy, they always seem to be missing something in the midrange and the punch departement. 

to respond to your post: i think the crate power amp and possibly a pair of those emminence speakers made for modelling amps would be a great or even a flextone cab by line6. those will definativly give you an acceptable tone and let you get the most out of what you've got. 

Please don't leave!


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## Adicted to Tubes (Mar 5, 2006)

I tried the crate power block today.It is very small in size but it has 150 watts of power.It sounded quite good through a 4-12 marshall cabinet with greenbacks.It would work well wit the Pod.the tone is actually quite good for solid state.It truly is in the fingers.(not mine!)
Overall it was kind of cool.But it's still not oatmeal!


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

Adicted to Tubes said:


> I tried the crate power block today.It is very small in size but it has 150 watts of power.It sounded quite good through a 4-12 marshall cabinet with greenbacks.It would work well wit the Pod.the tone is actually quite good for solid state.It truly is in the fingers.(not mine!)
> Overall it was kind of cool.But it's still not oatmeal!


My point exactly. Its Not OATMEAL. 

My band covers a lot of territory, and with the right analog pedals out front, I can get all the tones I need with all of my tube amps. And the tone is NEVER compromised. The point I'm trying to impart to our friend, is that for the same amount of $$$ he's gonna spent chasing his tail for decent tone with modelling gear, he can get excellant tone from what is considered by most in the know as the best choise for him to use. If he wants reasonable facsimilies for tone, then by all means, go Pod.:rockon: 

CT.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Best tones by whose definitions? Where can I get the scientific equipment that proves your tone is the one every other guitar player needs?................


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

Accept2 said:


> Best tones by whose definitions? Where can I get the scientific equipment that proves your tone is the one every other guitar player needs?................



Listen,,can you name me one big name guitarist that uses a modeller live,,and I don't mean in the studio. I'm talking live, whose tone can be called good?? Just one will do. I don't mean someone obscure like, Iha, or Corrigan. Of the stature of say Lukathur, Landau, Johnson etc. Someone noted for good tone.

I never said my tone was BEST. I said it was never compromised. It is generally accepted that modellers are not there yet, and I can't see them getting there in the forseeable future. Your a moderator, so you should read what I post, not what you perceive.

your own tagline,,, 
"Immature moderator specializing in personal attacks since 1807........... "
CT.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

*Greatest Tone of All Time*

I think Tom Scholz has the greatest tone of all time. Long live SR&D and the Rockman line.


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

But thats not a modeller, and he didn't use it live.
Thats the whole thing here,,,live use. 
Studio can make anything sound great.

CT.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

CocoTone said:


> But thats not a modeller, and he didn't use it live.
> Thats the whole thing here,,,live use.
> Studio can make anything sound great.
> 
> CT.


Of course I was just kidding. I am closing this thread down before it goes any further into the depths of argument vs topic. The originator of the thread has already left the forums due to the responses. Please try to stick to the topic, in a positive manner. There will always be disagreement, and thats fine. But have to respect all opinions and not preach.


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