# Tone King vs Victoria vs Carr vs Something else



## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Wonderful amps for sale and its time for me to graduate from my fender blues jr (that i love). For a blues enthusiast than owns a tele and a Les paul (hambuckers), what do you suggest. Ideally id play them all but Vics and carrs are tough to find in Mtl. The specific models im looking at are the Sky King (maybe the smaller falcon), the 45410 (victoria) and the rambler (carr). Any input helps! Ideally an amp that will be a lifer


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

I’ve owned all three, I think you choice depends a bit on what you’re looking to do. The Carr is a great clean sound (really swirly and 3D) and excellent pedal platform, the Vicky is loud and fat and dirty-no pedals needed if you can turn it up, the Sky King is a bit of both-a double deluxe reverb with both a clean/blackface side and a dirty channel, with attenuators on both channels. 

I loved the Carr (the Slant 6V is also excellent) but mostly for alt country and southern rock stuff. If you put a good OD in front it can be a great blues amp as well-I liked the AM KOT with this one. Lots of headroom, great reverb and trem.

The 45410 is a bit of a 1 trick pony, fat, dirty, breaks up a lot especially on the low end with lots of compression. Probably one of the best blues amps ever, but needs to be loud to work well, and has no master, so if you’re playing clubs and stuff can be hard to get it into the sweet spot. They get pretty fizzy when you use attenuators as well, I find.

The Sky King has a great clean channel as well as a good dirty channel. The reverb and trem are excellent as with the Carr. A bit less bright/hifi/swirly sounding on the clean channel compared to the Carr, but still excellent. The dirty channel is OK, but I actually preferred the clean channel turned up for blues playing, it had really nice breakup. The attenuators are good, but it sounds flat and compressed if you try to get a dirty sounds at bedroom levels (as all attenuators seem to do). If you can just use them for 5 or 6 dB of attenuation, they work well. There was a tan one for sale at Lauzon’s music here in Ottawa, essentially mint for 2999$ when I was there last week. Might be worth a trip if they still have it.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

As an aside-I’m currently using a pair of Matchless amps and they’ve been excellent. Recommended, but you should try first, they aren’t for everyone.


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Wow! Great helpful answers! Maybe a trip to ottawa soon


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## NashvilleDeluxe (Feb 7, 2018)

I've had the Falcon, and the first generation Sky King is my main amp. I have an Eminence Legend 12" extension cab (for "loose" American voicing) in addition to the Celestion G12M-65 Creamback (British feel). I only sold the Falcon, because the Sky King has it already built-in when you flip the switch to Ultralinear mode.


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Thanks ! Nice stack in the avatar!


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## Squawk (Jun 21, 2018)

I own 4 Tone King amps (Sky King, Meteor II, Royalist 15 and a Metropolitan). I also have a Carr Mercury (had a Viceroy), and own a Victoria Bassman 45410. I used to have a Falcon, but traded it (I didn't bond with it as much).

All great amps, all different. The Sky King has a great clean channel, the Ultralinear/Pentode switch gives it nice versatility.

The Sky King isn't as "squishy" and warm as a vintage Fender, but it's got its own thing going on and is a beautiful sound. The lead channel is cool, but the lead channel on the Metropolitan is more versatile to me. Meteor II is a great amp with more of a vintage Fender sound.

The Victoria Bassman has a beautiful tone, very rich and warm with a nice sound spread (4x10" speakers). It takes pedals really well.

All great options. I think with the Sky King, it's something you should try out if you can. I love mine, but the feel of them is not for everyone. They are a little stiffer than vintage fender amps. Tone King amps also seem to be very responsive to tube changes. A nice NOS 12ax7 in V1 can really make a big difference if you are into rolling tubes.


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Great advice! Thanks! Im leaning towards a sky king too. 

cheers


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

My guess is that the Stephenson Standard will do ALL of those, with its tube switching & tube swapping capabilities. Ultralinear mode available. Power scaling. Buffered effects loop. Best edge of breakup amp ever, from barely discernible to outright distortion. Hardest of all to find probably. Out of production, maybe. Call Mark -- he says he is going to retire, but it hasn't happened yet... I think.

Standard Tube Amplifier by Stephenson Amplification


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## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

Perhaps contact @ElectricMojo (in Blainville, QC). They have several models in stock from Tone King, and Carr. I'd also suggest checking out Milkman. Electric Mojo has an excellent return policy.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

If you love your Blues Jr, I'd buy another and do some tasteful mods to it. See where that takes you.

So many tales of searching for the lost sound in my journal.
C


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

DaddyDog said:


> Perhaps contact @ElectricMojo (in Blainville, QC). They have several models in stock from Tone King, and Carr. I'd also suggest checking out Milkman. Electric Mojo has an excellent return policy.


Thanks. Ill check them out. The prices for the new ones are quite scary but to try, indeed!


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Cardamonfrost said:


> If you love your Blues Jr, I'd buy another and do some tasteful mods to it. See where that takes you.
> 
> So many tales of searching for the lost sound in my journal.
> C[/QUOTE
> ...


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## Squawk (Jun 21, 2018)

I had a Blues Junior for awhile. I put a Bogner Ecstasy Blue pedal in front of it, and it became a whole new amp! Beautiful tones. The EQ on the Bogner was just what the Blues Junior needed... it kicked it up to another level.


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## NashvilleDeluxe (Feb 7, 2018)

_"All great options. I think with the Sky King, it's something you should try out if you can. I love mine, but the feel of them is not for everyone. They are a little stiffer than vintage fender amps. Tone King amps also seem to be very responsive to tube changes. A nice NOS 12ax7 in V1 can really make a big difference if you are into rolling tubes."_

Just to piggyback onto your assessment, which I agree with, the very qualities that make the Tone Kings record so well and stand out live also make them feel a bit stiffer and more direct when played in a quiet room. You can play with tubes (which comes down to personal taste) or add an extension cab for a different speaker style. 

The Creamback in the original Sky King needs a long break-in time at full volume, so if the amp is being attenuated, it may still have a "stiff" speaker that isn't fully broken in. I don't know about the speaker in the second generation Sky King. As mentioned, I have an extension cab with an Eminence Legend (match the impedance to the amp, since that also changed between Gen 1 and Gen 2). Used alone or in conjunction with the Creamback, it gives that warm, squishy American sound. Live, I'd take the Creamback over the Legend, and I think it was the right choice for an amp designed for studio/live work.

Personally, I love the lead channel on the Sky King. That's where I can really appreciate the difference between ultralinear (low order harmonics) and pentode. Regarding the Mid-Bite knob, a little goes a long way, and I'm usually between 0 and 2. 

Anyway, it's hands-down the best amp I've ever played, and I'm fortunate to have a workshop where there's a constant stream of dream guitars and amps flowing through. [email protected] Grange Guitar Workshop (FB)


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I own the Tone King Sky King as well. I've Owned a Carr Impala, a Victoria, several Dr Z a vintage 1965 Fender Bassman Head and 2X12 cabinet and Allen amps. This is the third Tone King I've owned. I had the Metropolitan and the Galaxy.
I've always been more of a 2x12 guy. I can say that the Sky King is the first 1X12 amp where I really don't miss the extra 12" speaker. Its very big sounding. A very versatile amp. I have a 2019 (Bought it about 4 months ago). I don't really find it stiff as others have said. 
I am selling mine but only because I'm giving up electric playing altogether and concentrating on acoustic. I turn it on and plug in about every 2 or 3 weeks and play it for about 5-10 minutes. But because of severe tinnitus thats about all I can handle. Even with the highest attenuation settings. 
I've only played it for one gig and it was fantastic at cutting the mix and sounding great. I mainly use the Rhythm channel. I don't have much use for the lead channel at home but I think I'd use it a lot more live.


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

guitarman2 said:


> I own the Tone King Sky King as well. I've Owned a Carr Impala, a Victoria, several Dr Z a vintage 1965 Fender Bassman Head and 2X12 cabinet and Allen amps. This is the third Tone King I've owned. I had the Metropolitan and the Galaxy.
> I've always been more of a 2x12 guy. I can say that the Sky King is the first 1X12 amp where I really don't miss the extra 12" speaker. Its very big sounding. A very versatile amp. I have a 2019 (Bought it about 4 months ago). I don't really find it stiff as others have said.
> I am selling mine but only because I'm giving up electric playing altogether and concentrating on acoustic. I turn it on and plug in about every 2 or 3 weeks and play it for about 5-10 minutes. But because of severe tinnitus thats about all I can handle. Even with the highest attenuation settings.
> I've only played it for one gig and it was fantastic at cutting the mix and sounding great. I mainly use the Rhythm channel. I don't have much use for the lead channel at home but I think I'd use it a lot more live.


thanks! Yours is so nice. If you were in Montreal, id have bought it 

there is one here for sale also but when the seller answers vaguely to specific questions, i stay away. 

good luck with the sale!


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

1979 930 said:


> thanks! Yours is so nice. If you were in Montreal, id have bought it
> 
> there is one here for sale also but when the seller answers vaguely to specific questions, i stay away.
> 
> good luck with the sale!


If you want to explore this further PM me and I can give you my number. I've never shipped an amp but I've shipped many guitars. The last one I shipped was to Montreal.


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Cornford Hurricane...does if compare or a very different beast?


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## skiddypop (Oct 21, 2019)

Depends what your looking to do. The Car Rambler will get you into the blackface lush cleans, and deluxe breakup sounds. (I owned and sold for a Allen Accomplice Jr.)

The Bassman circuit in my opinion is one of the most pivotal circuits in amp history. And Victoria in my opinion is bar non the best version of this amp. I have two of them. If played at bedroom levels makes a great pedal platform. If you turn it to 6 or 7 wow, and I mean wow. With the 4 speakers, talk about cream tweed goodness. 

I do not know much about the sky king. 

But If it was me, buckers and a Victoria bassman is the holy grail tone. 

But if you want all in one, best versatility, weight, and sound. the Allen Accomplice Jr masterbuild by Allen himself (don’t get a kit, unless you know what your doing.) 

Blows any blackface I’ve owned or tried out the water, with the raw nob (you have tweed on tap) & master volumn takes you from studio to the stage. Good luck my friend.


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## skiddypop (Oct 21, 2019)

Depends what your looking to do. The Car Rambler will get you into the blackface lush cleans, and deluxe breakup sounds. (I owned and sold for a Allen Accomplice Jr.)

The Bassman circuit in my opinion is one of the most pivotal circuits in amp history. And Victoria in my opinion is bar non the best version of this amp. I have two of them. If played at bedroom levels makes a great pedal platform. If you turn it to 6 or 7 wow, and I mean wow. With the 4 speakers, talk about cream tweed goodness. 

I do not know much about the sky king. 

But If it was me, buckers and a Victoria bassman is the holy grail tone. 

But if you want all in one, best versatility, weight, the Allen Accomplice Jr masterbuild by Allen himself (don’t get a kit, unless you know what your doing.)


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

Yeah, I have an Accomplice (the full sized one, not the Jr), its a great grab and go combo. Super quiet, great reverb, raw knob (for tweedy goodness) and the master volume works really well.


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## skiddypop (Oct 21, 2019)

zdogma said:


> Yeah, I have an Accomplice (the full sized one, not the Jr), its a great grab and go combo. Super quiet, great reverb, raw knob (for tweedy goodness) and the master volume works really well.


Yeah, covers the sounds of all the amps @1979 930 mentioned.


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