# NGD and Experience at 12th Fret



## JohnyO (May 31, 2009)

Just wanted to share the experience I had at the 12th fret yesterday. I've been looking for a new electric guitar for the last few months, and have gone around in circles on what I should buy. 
At first I did mostly reading, and over the last few weeks have gone to stores to try out different models. At first I only went to Long and Mcquade because they are close by. I ended up buying a hwy 1 tele, but taking it back a week later because I didn't like the frets. I decided to take a trip down to the 12th fret yesterday (with my Larrivee acoustic for trade fodder) to check it out. Well I tried out various models and settled on a 52ri tele. I asked about trade in value on my Larrivee and they offered to give me $100 more then what they offered me at L&M. The tele was also cheaper then L&M, but the one thing that really impressed me was that when I bought my hwy 1 at L&M the guy put it in the gig bag and said here ya go, well the total opposite happened at the 12th Fret. First the sales guy took the guitar back to one of their work tables, and started checking and adjusting the string heights at the nut, he then checked and adjusted the bridge height, and then checked the intonation. All I can say is WOW, good trade in value, cheaper guitar, and a free, what the sales guy called, "basic set-up." I was and still am very impressed.

As far as the guitar goes, it's all I can think about. Practiced with it last night, and first thing when I woke up, until my fatherly duties kicked in (the kids woke up), and I had to make the kids breakfast. The next thing will be to upgrade my amp, but I'll need to save for a while before I do that.


----------



## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

L&M gives you a free set up with every guitar - you just have to ask for it...and it can take upwards of a week for them to do it, depending on how busy they are.


----------



## hewie (Jan 31, 2009)

Congrats on the new guitar! Now post some photos because I love telecasters


----------



## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

hewie said:


> Congrats on the new guitar! Now post some photos because I love telecasters


Yup mee too.... Need Pics


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

JohnyO said:


> the one thing that really impressed me was that when I bought my hwy 1 at L&M the guy put it in the gig bag and said here ya go, well the total opposite happened at the 12th Fret. First the sales guy took the guitar back to one of their work tables, and started checking and adjusting the string heights at the nut, he then checked and adjusted the bridge height, and then checked the intonation. All I can say is WOW, good trade in value, cheaper guitar, and a free, what the sales guy called, "basic set-up." I was and still am very impressed.


That's pretty much the opposite of what happened to me when I bought my LP there. There were some serious set-up issues with the guitar, even though it sounded great. The bridge was way lower on the treble side than the bass side. When I asked about a free set-up I was told the guitar was already set-up. 

As a caveat, though, it _was_ a used instrument, probably there on consignment, so it's no huge surprise they didn't go very far out of their way to do anything for me. The experience certainly hasn't put me off the store, but they also could have done a little more for someone who was dropping $2,000 on a Tuesday when the store was dead. Nice to know they do a bit more for people buying new gear.


----------



## overdriver (Jul 24, 2008)

hollowbody said:


> That's pretty much the opposite of what happened to me when I bought my LP there. There were some serious set-up issues with the guitar, even though it sounded great. The bridge was way lower on the treble side than the bass side. When I asked about a free set-up I was told the guitar was already set-up.
> 
> As a caveat, though, it _was_ a used instrument, probably there on consignment, so it's no huge surprise they didn't go very far out of their way to do anything for me. The experience certainly hasn't put me off the store, but they also could have done a little more for someone who was dropping $2,000 on a Tuesday when the store was dead. Nice to know they do a bit more for people buying new gear.


Where was that L & M or the Fret. The fret has always setup new or used. I even had frets leveled on a inexspensive Fender Acoustic used I got there as part of the free setup. If it was the fret you probalbly talked to a dick. Grant is the man to talk to.


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

overdriver said:


> Where was that L & M or the Fret. The fret has always setup new or used. I even had frets leveled on a inexspensive Fender Acoustic used I got there as part of the free setup. If it was the fret you probalbly talked to a dick. Grant is the man to talk to.


Yeah, it was the Fret. I was dealing with Mike Mcavan, though he was the third person I spoke to that day, I guess I got their around lunchtime for them and people kept going on break.


----------



## overdriver (Jul 24, 2008)

hollowbody said:


> Yeah, it was the Fret. I was dealing with Mike Mcavan, though he was the third person I spoke to that day, I guess I got their around lunchtime for them and people kept going on break.


I don't think much of him. I always talk to Grant. Even Dave when was was there . well years ago he was good but he did become more of a sales Dick to talk with. Maybe it is that they have changed policy but they did setup a guitar used or new , twice if needed. One setup based on what you wanted and or the Tech's setup , with any further adjustment done a week or so latter , after the guitar settled or you wanted something changed.


----------



## ThePass (Aug 10, 2007)

Sounds like you had a perfect day at the shop!

Where is the 12th Fret? Downtown Toronto, right?


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

ThePass said:


> Sounds like you had a perfect day at the shop!
> 
> Where is the 12th Fret? Downtown Toronto, right?


Downtown east. On Danforth between Woodbine and Main. http://www.12fret.com/


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I bought a used J. Vaughan strat there. Or should I say barely breathed upon. Very well set up. I dealt with Brian. I was pleased with the service.


----------



## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i went in there yesterday because of this thread. i have been in there several times before, but like this time, i haven't bought anything yet.
they do have some really nice stuff in there. i see this guy in there with his (looks like) 8 yr old son. appears to be buying the boy a nice looking LP. 
i wanted to ask him to adopt me right then and there, but who adopts a 45 yr old son? hahahaha 
they did have an interesting looking one, a "voodoo". it was neat looking. i wouldn't buy one for myself, but it was cool looking.
i also saw an iceman, one of those old lucite guitars, and a bunch of lefties.


----------



## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

I guess 12th Fret is an Eastern thing. Out West, L&M is King when it comes to prices and service. Guitar Works has a nice selection now too since they opened their new store in Calgary.

So, since that guy did that quick setup while you were there, do you still get a free setup within the first year after you've played it for a bit? That would be nice. Otherwise, I would prefer to hold off on my setup.
L&M always gives free setups with every guitar, but usually you are encouraged to take it home for a bit and play so that you know all the things that you want adjusted to your particular taste. Also, since you can return your guitar anytime in the 1st month for your full cash refund, I can see why they wouldn't be trying to force everyone into their setup immediately.

I'm surprised that someone had a lower advertised price than L&M, but all those stores will price-match anyways.


----------



## JohnyO (May 31, 2009)

bcmatt said:


> I guess 12th Fret is an Eastern thing. Out West, L&M is King when it comes to prices and service. Guitar Works has a nice selection now too since they opened their new store in Calgary.
> 
> So, since that guy did that quick setup while you were there, do you still get a free setup within the first year after you've played it for a bit? That would be nice. Otherwise, I would prefer to hold off on my setup.
> L&M always gives free setups with every guitar, but usually you are encouraged to take it home for a bit and play so that you know all the things that you want adjusted to your particular taste. Also, since you can return your guitar anytime in the 1st month for your full cash refund, I can see why they wouldn't be trying to force everyone into their setup immediately.
> ...


They said I could bring it back in about three months to have the set-up adjusted. Although, I'd like to learn how to adjust stuff myself. What the guy did, didn't look like it was hard to do.

As for the price, they said they were in the midst of marking down their stuff to reflect the new exchange rate. 

Your right about the price matching. I was at L&M, and told them Steves had the American Standard tele's advertised at 1199, and the guy said he would match it immediately without even looking anything up.

And being able to return something to L&M within 30 days is a huge bonus, which I took advantage of with the hwy 1 tele that I returned to them.

I guess there are +s and -s with both places. I haven't bought many guitars, so I was impressed that the guy took the time to check out the guitar for me before I left with it, that's all.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

The 12th Fret is my favourite shop. I love L&M too (that interest free account thing might be the death of me), it's just that The Fret always has more interesting (to me) used acoustic instruments, and I find their service is great. What I really dig is the way the various shops seem to be mutually supportive, referring people to each other when necessary. 

Peace, Mooh.


----------



## Guest (Oct 21, 2009)

Mooh said:


> (that interest free account thing might be the death of me)


Oh hullo. What is this -- an interest free account? As in a layaway account or an actual buy-it-with=credit-and-0%-interest account? WAIT! Don't tell me. I probably don't want to know! :smile:


----------



## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

iaresee said:


> Oh hullo. What is this -- an interest free account? As in a layaway account or an actual buy-it-with=credit-and-0%-interest account? WAIT! Don't tell me. I probably don't want to know! :smile:


It happens once or twice a year and the promotion lasts for a month. It's actually buying it with 0% interest as long as you set it up to be paid within 6 months. They actually, don't advertise this, but at the same time, you could also finance over a 12 month period with half their regular interest rate as well.

They aren't huge fans of layaways. It's not fun for them to have the back full of reserved stock that they can't move. They'd rather have you at home playing the stuff.


----------



## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

only ever had good experiences at the 12th fret.
bought and sold a few guitars and amps with them.


----------



## peter benn (Mar 29, 2007)

A useful amp to have in your situation might be a SF Champ. For around the house. They're a natural for Teles.


----------



## JohnyO (May 31, 2009)

peter benn said:


> A useful amp to have in your situation might be a SF Champ. For around the house. They're a natural for Teles.


Thanks, What does the SF stand for. I was looking on the Fender web site, and I see super champ, vibro champ, champ 600, and 57 ri champ.


----------



## stratnoob (Oct 1, 2009)

Happy NGDkkjuw


----------



## overdriver (Jul 24, 2008)

JohnyO said:


> Thanks, What does the SF stand for. I was looking on the Fender web site, and I see super champ, vibro champ, champ 600, and 57 ri champ.


SF refers to silver face . they are no longer made.


----------



## overdriver (Jul 24, 2008)

http://www.thevintagesound.com/ffg/ silver face champ is listed and discribed on this site as well as many Fender amps. Made from 1968-1982


As far as today offering the little Pro Jr. model is nice for around the house. Maybe a little to loud. Lots of small amps out . Vox has a 4 watt model out which people like. Depends on how much you want to spend. All kinds of low watt guys out at several different price ranges. Plus used ones like the SF's.


http://www.guitarscanada.com/Board/showthread.php?p=237846#post237846 talk about the Voxac4tv


----------



## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

cheezyridr said:


> i went in there yesterday because of this thread. i have been in there several times before, but like this time, i haven't bought anything yet.
> they do have some really nice stuff in there. i see this guy in there with his (looks like) 8 yr old son. appears to be buying the boy a nice looking LP.
> i wanted to ask him to adopt me right then and there, but who adopts a 45 yr old son? hahahaha
> they did have an interesting looking one, a "voodoo". it was neat looking. i wouldn't buy one for myself, but it was cool looking.
> i also saw an iceman, one of those old lucite guitars, and a bunch of lefties.


hey that was my Voodoo.
you should buy it.
its in practically new condition. comes with a gorgeous snakeskin case too.


----------



## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

bcmatt said:


> It happens once or twice a year and the promotion lasts for a month. It's actually buying it with 0% interest as long as you set it up to be paid within 6 months. They actually, don't advertise this, but at the same time, you could also finance over a 12 month period with half their regular interest rate as well.


It turns out that I was unaware of the 0% financing over all 12 months going on right now. I didn't know they did that till now, but it's currently Yorkville month. So, all products that are distributed by Yorkville: Traynor, Gibson, Epiphone, Apex, ART, Gallien-Kruger, etc.


----------



## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

12th fret is a serious place...

Every player should do his own set-up...

It's not rocket science...:smilie_flagge17:


----------



## hfisher3380 (Mar 5, 2006)

I love the 12th Fret - it's a cosy friendly little shop with a great collection of guitars and equipment. However, I've only ever bought one thing there - a Larrivee D-03 rosewood which I soon after traded towards a Martin HD28. In any event, although I prefer shopping at "mom and pop" stores like 12th Fret vs. big machines like L&M I now find it hard to buy anything new anywhere but L&M due to the simple fact that they price match and offer the 30-day no-hassle money back if I'm not completely satisfied (which I have taken advantage on a number of occasions). Now when it comes to set-ups and the like - L&M is usually to be avoided due to the horribly long wait times (unless you have connections).


----------



## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

six-string said:


> hey that was my Voodoo.
> you should buy it.
> its in practically new condition. comes with a gorgeous snakeskin case too.



i'm way to lame to play a guitar without the dots hwopv
it was cool lookin though.


----------



## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

tubetwang said:


> 12th fret is a serious place...
> Every player should do his own set-up...
> It's not rocket science...:smilie_flagge17:



...i agree, up to a point. proper string change, intonation, bridge saddle height, a little lube in the right places - those are all pretty basic.

plus, techs are charging a lot more these days for a basic setup: $45 - $60 - sometimes more!

i don't like to mess the truss rod, however.

and if i'm changing to a different string gauge, i definitely want a set up by a good tech.

-dh


----------



## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> Yeah, it was the Fret. I was dealing with Mike Mcavan, though he was the third person I spoke to that day, I guess I got their around lunchtime for them and people kept going on break.


...mike's a good guy, but his customer service and attention to detail skills are occasionally lacking.

there are a couple of other guys there that always make you feel like you are an intrusion on their time, as well.

here's some good advice: if you have a problem with a company, even a corporation, find a way, if you can, to take it to the top guy. 

you will find that the top guy not only gives a damn, he also has both the power and the will to do something about it.

in the case of the fret, its grant mcneil. 

you'll also find that people who ask for help get treated far better than those who demand it.

-dh


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

david henman said:


> ...i agree, up to a point. proper string change, intonation, bridge saddle height, a little lube in the right places - those are all pretty basic.
> 
> plus, techs are charging a lot more these days for a basic setup: $45 - $60 - sometimes more!
> 
> ...


I felt the same way for a long time, but I went and got myself a beater guitar for dirt cheap to practice this kind of thing on, and now I'm able to make truss adjustments and any other minor adjustments that come with string gauge changes, no prob! Honestly, get yourself a $50 beater Squier and go to town! 

The only thing I can't do myself (yet) is properly set up a floating trem and any fretwork, but the latter is more because of a lack of tools than anything else.



david henman said:


> ...mike's a good guy, but his customer service and attention to detail skills are occasionally lacking.
> 
> there are a couple of other guys there that always make you feel like you are an intrusion on their time, as well.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I hear ya David. Like I said, I'm not going to let that one experience colour my judgement of the place because I don't think it's right to judge on one isolated experience. I'll keep Grant's name in mind next time I stroll over that way.


----------



## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> I felt the same way for a long time, but I went and got myself a beater guitar for dirt cheap to practice this kind of thing on, and now I'm able to make truss adjustments and any other minor adjustments that come with string gauge changes, no prob! Honestly, get yourself a $50 beater Squier and go to town!
> 
> The only thing I can't do myself (yet) is properly set up a floating trem...



...now there's something i AM good at. in fact, i much prefer the way i set up a floating trem over virtually every guitar tech i have ever encountered.

i could probably learn how to deal with truss rods, as well, but simply prefer to leave it to someone who already knows the science.

i feel the same way about mixing...

-dh


----------



## Caribou_Chris (Feb 15, 2009)

JohnyO said:


> Thanks, What does the SF stand for. I was looking on the Fender web site, and I see super champ, vibro champ, champ 600, and 57 ri champ.


SF = Silverface (vs. blackface), that is, the color of the faceplate.


----------

