# Okay, here it is again, vibrato



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Now that I have retired, have more time, live in a larger (and less expensive) apt. Things are in better shape fore me to tackle my guitar playing nemesis,... vibrato. I have guitars, amp, pedal board at one end of the living room. I have a little Vox Pathfinder next to the desktop computer setup so I can practice/learn online stuff. There is the couch and a kindly permanently lent 50" TV and a DVD player in the middle if I want to try to practice/learn that way.

Well, there is also speed. But I couldn't shred to save the world from extinction, but I have no problem with that. I'd like to improve the quality of each note/set of notes and playing different types of vibratos competently.

I did a search under theory and technique for vibrato in the title. There were four. And I had started the thread on three of them between 2010 and 2012. Face palm.

So, I am now going to slightly bore with what I see as the four types of vibrato.

First, classical. You vibrate the string by moving the finger back and forth horizontally in line with the string. Used commonly on the violin also. As I mentioned in a previous post, Mike Bloomfield would use a really wicked classical style of vibrato. This I can do.

Second, Bending Vibrato. Bend and then move up and down vertically, perpendicular to the direction of string. Done by moving the wrist, or wrist and forearm up and down, using ring finger, with middle finger for extra strength. Can also use middle finger as it is the strongest finder. I can do this,... with a full tone bend. When I try a half tone bend, it is hard for me to keep it there without going up and additional 1/4 or 1/2 tone in the bend.

Third, Wrist rotation vibrato, most notable used by BB King. I believe Clapton can do this using his wrist and forearm and just one finger. No way in f-ing hell can I do this at this time. If you think about the speed that players like Kossof or King could do this, I can't event get near fast enough to get out of first gear.

The fourth is what I call knuckle vibrato. Can be considered limited or poor technique. Not a very good substitute for rotating the wrist/forearm. I have found little niches to use this. It can work at end of phrase where you bend and perform a very slow vibrato, usually using the ring finger. It also works for a short medium speed vibrato using the index finger. This I can do, which doesn't say too much really.

Let me know what you think, what you would change or add to these ideas. And yes, I know about practice, practice, practice, ad infinitum. And as I have said in this forum before, I have weak, puny, little girly-man hands.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Okay, I was wondering, and I hope this is not case. This may be rather silly. You know how some people can roll their tongues like a mad Scot who comes running, screaming, out of the highlands. And despite the long line of Scottish ancestors on my dad's side I couldn't do it to save my life. I wonder if it is similar with type three vibrato I have listed????


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Just start slow. Pretend that your BB on one of his long soulful notes and move roll your finger back and forth say twice in a beat ..ie stretch it out so you hear each movement of vibrato. Apply daily


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> ... Apply daily


LOL....If, after 3 days, you don't see any change...take 2 aspirin in the morning and call (Dr.) Shoretyus.

Good Luck with developing your vibrato. 

If it is any consolation, I have trouble with "Type 3" vibrato also.
I have decided to just stay with "Type 2".

Cheers

Dave


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

I find type 2 and 3 the best for me, with type 1 I did not find the sound too exciting, mind you I was just trying them all on a Godin 5th. Ave. Kingpin II sans amp, so the lack of amplification may have contributed to the poor sounding vibrato with type 1.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I was watching a lesson the other day. I forget what it is called. something like "ear training". You can pick virtually any note on the guitar. Then play 2 frets higher and hear the difference. When you know what that second note sounds like you can then try and bend the first note you picked to sound like the note 2 frets higher. Do it often until your ear is trained to hear where the bend stops. So if you need to learn 1/2 tone bends just go up one fret and learn to train your ear to that. I'm doing this right now as I am learning to play Sweet Home Alabama and the guitar solo has a few bends that I am having problems with. I'm sure part of my problems are my guitars intonation, as it is not set up right now. I am taking it to Fred at Freddy's Frets as soon as he is done with my Les Paul. 
But using this lesson has get me to hear the correct pitch when I bend a string.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

knight_yyz said:


> I was watching a lesson the other day. I forget what it is called. something like "ear training". You can pick virtually any note on the guitar. Then play 2 frets higher and hear the difference. When you know what that second note sounds like you can then try and bend the first note you picked to sound like the note 2 frets higher. Do it often until your ear is trained to hear where the bend stops. So if you need to learn 1/2 tone bends just go up one fret and learn to train your ear to that. I'm doing this right now as I am learning to play Sweet Home Alabama and the guitar solo has a few bends that I am having problems with. I'm sure part of my problems are my guitars intonation, as it is not set up right now. I am taking it to Fred at Freddy's Frets as soon as he is done with my Les Paul.
> But using this lesson has get me to hear the correct pitch when I bend a string.


This post was a revelation. I could never figure out why a buddy of mine always sounded like shit when he was doing his noodling. I'll have to tell him - this is going to greatly change his playing. 

I'm still scratching my head here...he can tune a bloody guitar :sSig_Idontgetit:


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRxEpd0p7Tg

This is not the original lesson, but i did find this one. and he takes it a step farther by using a tuner.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

knight_yyz said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRxEpd0p7Tg
> 
> This is not the original lesson, but i did find this one. and he takes it a step farther by using a tuner.


Just watch this. Not a bad idea. I learned to tune by ear way back when there was no such thing as tuners. My ear is pretty good when it comes to pitch. Even I tune by tuner, I will still check it by ear and very fine tune it by ear if I have to. I have no problem hearing if something is off by a few HZ. I don't have perfect pitch, but I am definitely in the ball park,...even the infield.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I am sure I said this some where in the thread, but I am sure the natural ability to do a rotating wrist vibrato is like the natural ability to roll your tongue,... some have it and some don't. And I don't. It wouldn't surprise if I had to work 50x longer and harder to develop that skill. 

So I have decided to work with a couple of half acceptable alternatives and make other changes that work in the meantime. 

First, thinner E B and G strings. On my Riviera I have a .008, .0105 and a .014. I left .026 .036 and .046 strings on - no problem there. And I also have tuned down to Eb. Billy Gibbons is known for using extra lights, 8s or even a 7 high E. He discovered this when he was playing with B.B. King and they tried each others guitars. Billy had been using your usual muscle work out heavy gauge strings. B.B. had been using light gauge. To paraphrase what B.B. said, "What you makin' your fingers work so hard for?" 

I am starting to agree with this. This is bendy heaven for me. My vibrato alternatives also work a little better. Pull and bend double stops on B and G strings are amazing.

Part of the for this is that I do NOT have Stevie Ray Vaughan hands and fingers, not even in the same universe. As I have said before (with an Austrian accent) I have weak puny little girly man hands. And a Trout Fishing in America Shorty for a pinky finger. Look at the palm of the hand, put the fingers together and see where the tip of pinky lines up. Just where the lowest crease of top knuckle of the ring finger is. That's where mine is. And I'm 65 and that hand isn't going to get any stronger.

No problem doing a bend and vibrate because that involves moving the wrist up and down. Just haven't quite got the 1/2 tone bend and vibrate yet. So I use what I call the knuckle vibrato. I have managed to get that work in minimally acceptable way - even easier with the low gauge strings and down tune. But the vibrato on the high E? For I use the violin (aka Mike Bloomfield vibrato when used more aggressively) sparingly, or I vibrate the string between the bridge and tailpiece with my finger - this works if you have a guitar with a trapeze tailpiece or a frequensator tailpiece like I have on my Riviera....









On my stratocaster I have a thing mistakenly referred to as a tremolo for vibrato. You think someone as bright as Leo would have realized that vibrato is pitch modulation and tremolo is volume modulation and called it a Vibrato bar. But that is all in the past, why nit-pick now. I'll just call it whammy bar for now. But I digress. My whammy bar is set to float about 1/2 tone up, which is good enough for performing vibratos unless you are Jeff Beck and you can go for more. I believe you can attain a level of finesse with the whammy bar as you can with a rotating wrist vibrato if you have whole thing set up just right and practice, practice, practice. There may be aesthetic differences in sound, but hell, I only noodle at home. 

So, that is where I am at in trying to achieve a level of vibrato I can at least say, "okay, good enough." But then again that's what the British were saying in the 70s when building cars... and we all know what happened to that industry.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I've been practising bends and now use a headstock tuner on whatever guitar is in my hands. I can play the note i want then bend to pitch. I bend until the note is ringing at what I think it is then double check the tuner. I'm getting better slowly. Vibrato on the other hand.... my hands are still too slow...


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