# Fender Gets It............And Banks It



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Marketing at its best or some people have more money than brains?

Fender Relic Guitars: How to Pick the Perfect One for You - inSync


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Marketing at its best or some people have more money than brains?


This is true for more than relic guitars. 

Quit being a shit disturber.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

Relic-ing guitars boggles my mind. 
To pay extra for it; Complete mystery to me


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> Marketing at its best or some people have more money than brains?
> 
> Fender Relic Guitars: How to Pick the Perfect One for You - inSync


Subjectivity. 
I for one am glad that both my PRS's have wear on them.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Hahaha...the relic thread emerges from the grave.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

And yet no one will pay extra for my relic-ed van...


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Whats the saying about fools and money?


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Steadfastly said:


> Marketing at its best or some people have more money than brains?
> 
> Fender Relic Guitars: How to Pick the Perfect One for You - inSync


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Scotty said:


> Whats the saying about fools and money?


hey, now you can even buy jeans with fake mud stains on them and they cost $400.


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2017)

cheezyridr said:


> hey, now you can even buy jeans with fake mud stains on them and they cost $400.


There were also the manufactured, razor-sliced and holes in the knees that went for designer prices.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't get it but whatever floats yer boat. I think it's a two stage process. First have to think that actual old, worn guitars look cool, then you have to be okay with faking it. Personally I'm okay with the faking it, trying to make something look like you want it to, I just don't think old, worn guitars look cool even if they're not faked. I think they look like old worn (out) guitars that are long overdue for a refinishing. Again, just my opinion for what that's worth.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

If it's got the look, it's got the look! And people pay for what they like, some like the relic, some dont, hence the brand new relic's alongside the new unrelic'd models.

I was ready to shell out asking price for a certain oly white strat that sold before I could buy it. It would have been my first relic'd guitar but it had the look y'know. and 22 frets. Some vehicles have a certain body package that demands extra $$$, same shit on the inside but a (fake) hoodscoop and a nicer ferring? or spoiler and people will pay an extra 5-10k for the same vehicle because it has the look.

It's not rocket appliances!


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

cheezyridr said:


> hey, now you can even buy jeans with fake mud stains on them and they cost $400.


And rips

I do all that myself for feee


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2017)

Moosehead said:


> It's not rocket appliances!


Ha! Love it.
Googled for the heck of it.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Ha! Love it.
> Googled for the heck of it.
> 
> View attachment 82745


Sheee-it, I always thought it was rocket surgery. Am I the only one that uses "worst case ON" in a business e-mail to see if any of my co-workers are cool? Oh well, it's like karma, what goes around is all around.


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## GUInessTARS (Dec 28, 2007)

So Fender produces a guitar with a finish some people like.
And that finish really sands some other people's ass crack.
So these other people say "do not spend YOUR money on something I don't like'.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

GUInessTARS said:


> So Fender produces a guitar with a finish some people like.
> And that finish really sands some other people's ass crack.
> So these other people say "do not spend YOUR money on something I don't like'.


Steadlyfastly is on a sanctioned mission, authorised by a higher power to tell us all that Fender/Gibson are evil and we should all buy budget guitars with wide nuts!


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Chitmo said:


> Steadlyfastly is on a sanctioned mission, authorised be a higher power to tell us all that Fender/Gibson are evil and we should all buy budget guitars with wide nuts!


Don't forget "Big Hands". He needs a wide nut because he has big hands.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Guitar101 said:


> Don't forget "Big Hands". He needs a wide nut because he has big hands.


His imaginary friend Hey-Zeus says it's okay to have big hands because every is different.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I have no scientific proof, but I think the experience of the player is inversely proportional to the perceived experience of the instrument they buy.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

GUInessTARS said:


> So Fender produces a guitar with a finish some people like.
> And that finish really sands some other people's ass crack.
> So these other people say "do not spend YOUR money on something I don't like'.


I don't think that's what people who wouldn't buy a relic'd guitar are saying at all. That's just your assumption. We just wouldn't buy one and think it is a bit silly.


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> I don't think that's what people who wouldn't buy a relic'd guitar are saying at all. That's just your assumption. We just wouldn't buy one and think it is a bit silly.


But if they aren't trying to convince someone of their opinion why bother posting? Just to read your own words? Come on...at least in part it's an attempt to convince them or yourself no?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

TimH said:


> But if they aren't trying to convince someone of their opinion why bother posting? Just to read your own words? Come on...at least in part it's an attempt to convince them or yourself no?


People share new, stories and information all the time with no intention of trying to change people's minds on the subject. To think that posting information on a forum is going to change someone's mind is quite far-fetched. 

Sitting down and explaining something to someone or a group will sometimes change someone's mind or attitude but for a person to change his mind, he basically has to do that himself.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Steadfastly said:


> People share new, stories and information all the time with no intention of trying to change people's minds on the subject. To think that posting information on a forum is going to change someone's mind is quite far-fetched.
> 
> Sitting down and explaining something to someone or a group will sometimes change someone's mind or attitude but for a person to change his mind, he basically has to do that himself.


I bet you're one if these ones aren't ya!

Man says impact of 'brainwashing' remains 3 years after leaving Plaster Rock church


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

nkjanssen said:


> So you were just posting the _new_ information that Fender offers relic'ed guitars. Got it.


Yes, but not for everyone. I heard from a good source that you were not aware of these yet and wanted to keep you up to date.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Steadfastly said:


> Yes, but not for everyone. I heard from a good source that you were not award of these yet and wanted to keep you up to date.


Then why include this caption in the OP? "Marketing at its best or some people have more money than brains?"

If that's not trolling, I'm not sure what is.

We get it, you don't see any value in a guitar over a certain price point.
So don't buy the ones over your comfort level, simple.
It gets really old after a while, we get it.

I don't know why you're so obseesed about how other people choose to spend their own money.
It baffles me, really.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

sulphur said:


> Then why include this caption in the OP? "Marketing at its best or some people have more money than brains?"
> 
> If that's not trolling, I'm not sure what is.
> 
> ...


Yes, I'm sure he spends money in ways I would find completely asinine, but I don't bother telling him that. Let alone once a day for the last umpteen years.

I guess we all have our agenda's or quota we are trying to meet?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

sulphur said:


> Then why include this caption in the OP? "Marketing at its best or some people have more money than brains?"
> 
> If that's not trolling, I'm not sure what is.
> 
> ...


Sulphur, if it bothers you, why are you so obsessed with repeating your stand? You have said many times how you feel. I get it too. You see, it goes both ways. And, BTW, I am not obsessed, just _steadfast_.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I don't like the relicing concept OR the price of relics personally. I think it is just faking it. But that's my own opinion on how I view things regarding well played and worn guitars. Could be because of the fact that I've been relicing my '79 LP for over 30 f-ing years now. Jebus it's taking a long time for me to finish this damn relicing project. But I ply my relicing trade every single day on her just to get it right. It won't be done until I'm dead and buried of course, and if my daughter continues playing, she can pass her own relicing story onto it.

But if I want to by a new guitar, I'll probably by a nice one with the possibility of it being reliced by the previous owner. Or maybe a perfect brand new one that I can begin another project on in the same fashion.



By the way, apparently I forgot how to spell buy. Hah.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Steadfastly said:


> Sulphur, if it bothers you, why are you so obsessed with repeating your stand? You have said many times how you feel. I get it too. You see, it goes both ways. And, BTW, I am not obsessed, just _steadfast_.


You really are a Fucking moron, shake your head and then delete your account. If you're just here to criticize Every piece of gear priced over $1k your in the wrong place. You'd think after being here for this long it would have set in by now, this is a place for gear heads to talk about gear, not slam it. Long story short, it's probably best for you to shut the Fuck up unless someone asks you a question related to something you're a subject matter expert in. FYI, admitting you're wrong, guitar knowledge and imaginary friends.....not your forte!


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Steadfastly said:


> Sulphur, if it bothers you, why are you so obsessed with repeating your stand? You have said many times how you feel. I get it too. You see, it goes both ways. And, BTW, I am not obsessed, just _steadfast_.


It's probably because of your incessant troll threads, or taking a shit in any thread about Gibson, etc.

I wouldn't have to take any "stand" if you'd smarten up and give that garbage up already.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

I get the OPs point, realistically how much can a relice job cost to make a guitar that much more expensive? You can always buy new and do it yourself or ask a local builder to do it (and have kudos for supporting the local market); if someone wants to pay close to double price for some road worn look it's because they have more money than they or their family need, or they are just seduced by the marketing to buy something that in the worst case Ontario will happen anyway with time and use


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm not a relic fan myself, but I see a niche for them. There must be a market, or they wouldn't build them.

People have different budgets, that's reality.
Who am I, or anyone else to slag someone for choosing what they do with their expendable income.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Play what you love. You don't have to justify it to anyone but yourself.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

amagras said:


> I get the OPs point, realistically how much can a relice job cost to make a guitar that much more expensive? You can always buy new and do it yourself or ask a local builder to do it (and have kudos for supporting the local market); if someone wants to pay close to double price for some road worn look it's because they have more money than they or their family need, or they are just seduced by the marketing to buy something that in the worst case Ontario will happen anyway with time and use


The upcharge from Fender to move from an NOS guitar to the same model in a Relic finish is a few hundred bucks (~10% in the example below), so I'm not sure where the idea that relicing a guitar doubles the cost comes from.

Fender Musical Instruments - New Old Stock Postmodern Telecaster, Maple Fingerboard, Black

Fender Musical Instruments - Journeyman Relic Postmodern Telecaster, Maple Fingerboard, Black

I've owned a few relic'd Strats & Teles over the years, and the reason is primarily that I don't like sticky necks & I don't like skinny necks. Unfortunately all of Fender's more affordable options violate both of those buying criteria for me - nothing chaps my a$$ more than a modern "C" with poly on the frets. Trust me, Id love to buy the less expensive guitar but it simply won't get played.

P.S. 3 of the best F-style guitars I've ever owned just happened to be relics (WW10 '59 Strat, a '63 Tele & an Underwood 50s Strat). They were purchased for tone & playability, had absolutely nothing to do with living out a rock & roll fantasy of some type. In fact if I were to order the Strats I would have chosen different colours on both of them, but they just sounded too damn good to keep my wallet closed.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

sulphur said:


> I wouldn't have to take any "stand" if you'd smarten up and give that garbage up already.


For your sanity, Sulphur, I suggest you stop reading my posts. I don't want to be responsible for the high blood pressure you seem to be building up for nothing. Regards, Steadfastly


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Roryfan said:


> I've owned a few relic'd Strats & Teles over the years, and the reason is primarily that I don't like sticky necks & I don't like skinny necks. Unfortunately all of Fender's more affordable options violate both of those buying criteria for me


So you have me curious now. Are all of Fenders new necks wider or chunkier than in previous days?


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Steadfastly said:


> For your sanity, Sulphur, I suggest you stop reading my posts. I don't want to be responsible for the high blood pressure you seem to be building up for nothing. Regards, Steadfastly


I'm calling you out on your bullshit, I suggest you read my posts.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Steadfastly said:


> For your sanity, Sulphur, I suggest you stop reading my posts. I don't want to be responsible for the high blood pressure you seem to be building up for nothing. Regards, Steadfastly


The worst part about all of this is that I can't figure out if you're an compulsive troll or a moron. FYI, neither option makes you look good.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

TimH said:


> But if they aren't trying to convince someone of their opinion why bother posting? Just to read your own words? Come on...at least in part it's an attempt to convince them or yourself no?


I don't think that's the reason at all. I think it's mostly for enjoyment/amusement. Like, "Hey look, guys, there goes on other one! Haha haha ha."


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

BMW-KTM said:


> I don't think that's the reason at all. I think it's mostly for enjoyment/amusement. Like, "Hey look, guys, there goes on other one! Haha haha ha."


Ok then it's reinforcement of your opinion and those who agree with you...which is kind of the same thing...they call it preaching to the choir.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Anyone else find it ironic that he belongs to a cult that goes door to door pitching his beliefs to people?


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

TimH said:


> Ok then it's reinforcement of your opinion and those who agree with you...which is kind of the same thing...they call it preaching to the choir.


 ... which something done by people on both sides of this issue and pretty much any issue. To take non relic lovers to task for stating an opinion on a guitar forum, which is an opinion hotbed to start with, while assuming the right to assert pro relic lover comments .... well, that just ain't right. Everybody gets a say.

Nuf sed.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

BMW-KTM said:


> ... which something done by people on both sides of this issue and pretty much any issue. To take non relic lovers to task for stating an opinion on a guitar forum, which is an opinion hotbed to start with, while assuming the right to assert pro relic lover comments .... well, that just ain't right. Everybody gets a say.
> 
> Nuf sed.


This wasn't about relic vs non-relic, it is the fact that the individual in question is a judgemental if anyone that spends over $500 on a piece of gear and gets preachy over it. Everyone is entitled to a preference or has a budget and his lack of understanding of that is the problem.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

BMW-KTM said:


> ... which something done by people on both sides of this issue and pretty much any issue. To take non relic lovers to task for stating an opinion on a guitar forum, which is an opinion hotbed to start with, while assuming the right to assert pro relic lover comments .... well, that just ain't right. Everybody gets a say.
> 
> Nuf sed.


Read the OP.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

I did read the OP.

Don't like his opinions?
Then don't agree with them.

Everybody gets a say but some people want others to shut up with their opinions.
It doesn't work that way.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

There are ways of taking a "discussion".

Starting out stating that people have more money than brains isn't a great method.
Trolling at the least and you're just encouraging that, nice.

If you'd read through the thread, I did state my opinion. He's a troll.


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## Guest (May 1, 2017)

Umm .. never mind.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I'm pretty neutral when it comes to some of what other folks here are talking about re: gear, likes and dislikes, etc. Everyone has their own set of values that they would like to impart on others in one form or another, including guitar gear. For myself, I just don't like the idea of having equipment reliced (aka "made to look old under false pretenses"). But that is solely a reflection on my own way of thinking and internal belief system, nothing to do with others. Other posters on this site should learn a lesson in humility and understand that just because you have an intense belief in the non value of certain brands or makes of musical instruments, there are others that take a great deal of pleasure and inspiration from these musical instruments, no matter what the dollar value is. This constant degrading of certain brands is really getting fucking tiring to me. I've been a Gibby lover from the day I became interested in playing, but I'd never be so pretentious to believe that others should set aside their Fenders, Ibanez, PRS, or any guitar because of the fact I happen to love that brand and would pay a price to attain it.

I'm pretty tired of a couple of preachers on this site that are taking away from threads that can be an enjoyable learning experience for something I know, and what others do not know but want to learn more about. Relics and relicing included. It's odd to see obvious older men acting like pre teen fanboyz on some things around here. I wonder what would happen if I was in the position to post a New Stradivarious thread? That would be fun.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

sulphur said:


> There are ways of taking a "discussion".
> 
> Starting out stating that people have more money than brains isn't a great method.





Dorian2 said:


> I'm pretty tired of a couple of preachers on this site that are taking away from threads that can be an enjoyable learning experience for something I know, and what others do not know but want to learn more about.


Genau.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

BMW-KTM said:


> I did read the OP.
> 
> Don't like his opinions?
> Then don't agree with them.
> ...


Everyone does have their say. How would you like to be a Relic owner who may be interested in a new Fender Reliced, and you read "more money than brains" in the OP when you may just want to see what other people prefer or have experienced with these types of guitars? And in case you havem't noticed, every single thread about certain brands is side tracked by certain "opinions" which we all have the right to suggest, but come across as degrading to some users of certain types of instuments. Personally I find it really lame, but that's just my opinion.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> So you have me curious now. Are all of Fenders new necks wider or chunkier than in previous days?


Fender & Gibson guitars from the 50s have fairly chunky necks. In the 60s both companies moved to thinner necks, and Gibson changed their nut width from 1 11/16" to 1 9/16" in the mid 60s. This lasted for ~ 10 years (sorry, I'm not up on my Norlin-era history). Fender's nut width has remained pretty consistent at 1 5/8", however you could custom order wider (SRV's #1 Strat had a D width neck) or narrower (an early 60s Strat with an A width recently popped up in the emporium here).

In addition to returning to the 1 11/16" nut width, Gibson has offered a choice of 50s (fatter) & 60s (slimmer) neck profiles on their regular USA production models. Flying Vs, Explorers & Firebirds have the slimmer necks, however you can find an SG, Les Paul or ES-style guitar of some type in either neck thickness that was produced at some point in the last 30+ years.

Since the introduction of the Am. Standard Strat in the late 80s, Fender has been predominantly using a slimmer "modern C" neck on it's standard MIA guitars. If you want anything fatter, then you must fork over more bucks for the appropriate AVRI or Custom Shop model.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Dorian2 said:


> Everyone does have their say. How would you like to be a Relic owner who may be interested in a new Fender Reliced, and you read "more money than brains" in the OP when you may just want to see what other people prefer or have experienced with these types of guitars? And in case you havem't noticed, every single thread about certain brands is side tracked by certain "opinions" which we all have the right to suggest. Personally I find it really lame, but that's just my opinion.


I agree. I've had very bad experience with Godin guitars but I don't beat everyone who buys one over the head with it. I will never buy another but if someone else likes them, they can be wrong without my comments. 

Same with fake relics. I'd never pay more to have that 'added' to a guitar, but if I found one that I really liked and it was at least as cheap as a non-relic'd one, I wouldn't be averse to buying it just because it's relic'd.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Roryfan: Thanks for that. You obviously know that history well. Too bad they didn't sell bolt on neck guitars with a choice of necks.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Roryfan: Thanks for that. You obviously know that history well. Too bad they didn't sell bolt on neck guitars with a choice of necks.


They do, but you have to spend more to get a reissue of a specific year/model. The US production models such as an Am. Vintage Reissue (aka AVRI) or certain signature models (I had an early SRV Strat with a lovely fat neck) will cost a few hundred more over an Am. Std. Or you can spend the big bucks & get a Custom Shop guitar, although the gap is surprisingly not that bad if you buy used.

Case in point, about 10 years ago I had an Eric Johnson Strat on order, but ended up buying a used '56 Relic for approx. the same price (the store was willing to take a partial trade so I saved some taxes). When the EJ came into the store, I compared the 2 guitars & the Relic won by a suburban kilometer. Once I got a taste, I fell down the expensive guitar rabbit hole.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

nkjanssen said:


> My opinion is that I don't like your opinion about the opinions of others regarding the OP's opinion.


So, you're against free speech?
That's all I'm advocating.
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the OP.
I'm simply defending his right to express himself.
If you disagree with that then I find that very interesting.
And a little disturbing.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

BMW-KTM said:


> So, you're against free speech?
> That's all I'm advocating.
> I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the OP.
> I'm simply defending his right to express himself.
> ...


Opinions are useless unless based in real world experience.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

Useless or not, everybody has them and there are no laws preventing people from expressing them.
For that I am grateful.
Censorship is not cool.
Not opinion; fact.
I don't need to experience censorship to appreciate that.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Here's a question for you.

If I were to say that all BMW owners had more money than brains, after never even being in one, is that a valid claim?
That's an opinion isn't it? Totally baseless, but it's an opinion. Now do you see where uninformed opinions are of no value.

Speak your mind, but base it on facts, not rhetoric.


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## Guitars & Cars (Apr 14, 2017)

Personally, I don't have any relic'd guitars. I don't dislike them, I'd just rather waste my money on overpriced pickups, amps, etc... You spend your money where you like, I spend mind where I like. 
The day that someone else starts buying guitars for me is the day that they have a say in what my guitars look or sound like. If you don't like my gear send me blank check and a list of what I should have or keep your negative opinions to yourself. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

sulphur said:


> Here's a question for you.
> 
> If I were to say that all BMW owners had more money than brains, after never even being in one, is that a valid claim?
> That's an opinion isn't it? Totally baseless, but it's an opinion. Now do you see where uninformed opinions are of no value.
> ...


Maybe @BMW-KTM will be less inclined to defend the troll (please read the 2 choices in the OP) if I express it in car terms.

Post #1: I'm thinking about buying a BMW. What can BMW owners tell me about the performance differences between an M-3 & 330i? Are the maintenance costs comparable & would you recommend one dealer over others?

Post #2: According to their websites, a Toyota Corolla & a BMW M-3 both have 4 doors & air conditioning. The only other discernable difference is BMW's superior marketing which tricks idiots into overspending on a car. I've never driven either vehicle b/c I can't fit behind the wheel but I once read some good reviews about Japanese cars & used to work in a place where they made things so I know how much raw materials cost & the rest is all evil marketing & profiteering.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

I'm so confused, I feel like I should relic a BMW for some reason.


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## Guest (May 2, 2017)




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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

laristotle said:


>


I was into the car scene for a long time before getting involved with music. I think that trend of relic job European cars, which later moved into the JDM scene as well, is a lot of the reason I despise artifically aged guitars. 

To some auto enthusiasts that is cool. The only way I like to see a rusty car is when someone decides to throw a big engine into an old 50's death trap and not bother with the restoration. To me, taking a grinder the the hood of a 90's Jetta, taking a piss on it, and letting it rust does not qualify as a rat rod.


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## Guest (May 2, 2017)

cboutilier said:


> a big engine into an old 50's death trap


a Mad Max machine would be cool to drive down the 401


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

laristotle said:


> a Mad Max machine would be cool to drive down the 401


I'm torn.
I can't decide if the flags add too muck bling,or they are a great touch to make it easier to find in the parking lot.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

laristotle said:


> a Mad Max machine would be cool to drive down the 401


I got to help on this project a few years ago. My first rat rod experience.


__
http://instagr.am/p/1mkBPgCbAJ/


__
http://instagr.am/p/1nXhNWCbPQ/


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I don't think that this thread is opinion based at all. Biased is a more operative word. Based on my opinion of the OP's past threads and posts of course.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

What bothers me more than an uninformed and biased opinion is name calling and calling down an individual on a personal level - there is simply no reason to do so.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

If you're referring to me, here's a definition for you...

Internet troll - Wikipedia


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

LanceT said:


> What bothers me more than an uninformed and biased opinion is name calling and calling down an individual on a personal level - there is simply no reason to do so.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Chitmo said:


> I'm so confused, I feel like I should relic a BMW for some reason.


I relic'd one once. My neighbor was soooooooooooooo pissed off................


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Chitmo said:


> View attachment 84377


I don't get the relevance but hey no doubt it is special to you.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Bubb said:


> I'm torn.
> I can't decide if the flags add too muck bling,or they are a great touch to make it easier to find in the parking lot.


LOL 

I think that goes back to medieval times - and which king (or lane) you were fighting for.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

sulphur said:


> If you're referring to me, here's a definition for you...
> 
> Internet troll - Wikipedia


I'm referring to anyone who thinks it's okay to stoop to name calling and resorting to personal attacks. There is no place for this in my fact-based opinion.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

LanceT said:


> I'm referring to anyone who thinks it's okay to stoop to name calling and resorting to personal attacks. There is no place for this in my fact-based opinion.


You mean like this?


Steadfastly said:


> Marketing at its best or some people have more money than brains?
> 
> Fender Relic Guitars: How to Pick the Perfect One for You - inSync


Ok...it's not name calling anyone specific. Just an entire group of Musicians and guitarists...no biggy I guess. Especially on a guitar forum.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Dorian2 said:


> You mean like this?
> 
> Ok...it's not name calling anyone specific. Just an entire group of Musicians and guitarists...no biggy I guess. Especially on a guitar forum.


The way I see it, the OP was being completely tongue in cheek and no doubt baiting those he knew would rise to the bait. Haha how funny.
The situation can be reverse engineered anyway you want to slice it and make the OP the villain. I'll be a bit more clear by stating that personal attacks on an individual within a forum has no place.
I've read time and again by numerous forum members what a wonderful inclusive place this forum is but it would seem to me that unless you share the majority opinion and don't upset those who have no self-control then this fairy tale land doesn't exist.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

Roryfan said:


> Maybe @BMW-KTM will be less inclined to defend the troll (please read the 2 choices in the OP) if I express it in car terms.
> 
> Post #1: I'm thinking about buying a BMW. What can BMW owners tell me about the performance differences between an M-3 & 330i? Are the maintenance costs comparable & would you recommend one dealer over others?
> 
> Post #2: According to their websites, a Toyota Corolla & a BMW M-3 both have 4 doors & air conditioning. The only other discernable difference is BMW's superior marketing which tricks idiots into overspending on a car. I've never driven either vehicle b/c I can't fit behind the wheel but I once read some good reviews about Japanese cars & used to work in a place where they made things so I know how much raw materials cost & the rest is all evil marketing & profiteering.


Post #3: I have extensive experience driving both. My cousin owns a BMW dealership and I've driven several M-3's and 330i's. My brother actually owns an M-3 and after much deliberation I ended up buying a 330i last month. Let me share my thoughts, experiences and explain why I chose the 330i...

Post #4: Driving a car is the worst possible way to form an opinion about it. Unless you drove both on the exact same road at the exact same time on the exact same day, no information at all can be gained from driving a vehicle. The only accurate way to form an opinion about a vehicle is from the brochure. Your personal experiences are meaningless. Of course, I've never actually driven a car myself. Don't have a license. I have read a lot of brochures though. Let me tell you all about which choice is the best...


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

LanceT said:


> The way I see it, the OP was being completely tongue in cheek and no doubt baiting those he knew would rise to the bait. Haha how funny.


So a troll then? Just like it has been said countless times. I like how you're defending, justifying and enabling him to continue.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)




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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

vadsy said:


> So a troll then? Just like it has been said countless times. I like how you're defending, justifying and enabling him to continue.


My only stance is to not belittle individuals, I don't think that's too hard to do.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

LanceT said:


> My only stance is to not belittle individuals, I don't think that's too hard to do.


What do you think that he was trying to do in the OP?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Okay, guys, I think this has gone far enough. Let's put an end to this bickering, okay?

My post was tongue in cheek as someone suggested. However, I see it has hurt some feelings and for this I apologize. It was not intended to do so. I should have put a smiley face or two in my OP or added an extra few words so it would be understood.

If any of you were offended and want to remain upset with me, that is fine, but please stop bickering among yourselves. It is not going to accomplish anything but bad feelings amongst yourselves that may take a long time to overcome.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Ohh it was all a joke, ...crazy good time. The million of other shit threads are also just 'tongue in cheek'. 
Steadly gets called out by the majority and he's all of a sudden just joking the whole time. It's all cool, guys.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)




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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)




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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

_Define: (with) tongue in cheek
1. without really meaning what one is saying or writing._

I've heard the saying "tongue in cheek" but never really knew the definition. Now I say "why would anyone say or write anything they don't mean". No wonder it confuses some people.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

sulphur said:


> What do you think that he was trying to do in the OP?


I didn't read it that way. Thought it was basically harmless posting.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

vadsy said:


> Ohh it was all a joke, ...crazy good time. The million of other shit threads are also just 'tongue in cheek'.
> Steadly gets called out by the majority and he's all of a sudden just joking the whole time. It's all cool, guys.


Aha you are part of the 'majority'. Does this mean you're right too? (Provincial election coming up in BC so lots of posturing going on)


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I just mean when it's one person the guy stands his ground but all of a sudden a few too many and he's apologetic. Shady


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

LanceT said:


> The way I see it, the OP was being completely tongue in cheek and no doubt baiting those he knew would rise to the bait. Haha how funny.
> The situation can be reverse engineered anyway you want to slice it and make the OP the villain. I'll be a bit more clear by stating that personal attacks on an individual within a forum has no place.
> I've read time and again by numerous forum members what a wonderful inclusive place this forum is but it would seem to me that unless you share the majority opinion and don't upset those who have no self-control then this fairy tale land doesn't exist.


I also have no time for personal attacks. I also believe in freedom of expression and opinion. Suggesting an entire group of individuals have more money than brains because they may prefer a certain style of guitar is just plain rude to be honest. I VERY rarely comment on certain posters who tend to have a knack to carry on about certain other posters and vice verse. But I HAVE been sitting back and reading threads where it seems that 1 guy goes out of his way to sideline the actual intention of the thread, especially if it has anything to do with equipment of a certain price point, or more specifically, which large company that manufactures these things for the guitar society is the subject.

It's fucking annoying and totally unjustified, condescending, and unfair to posters here who want to learn what others are using and doing, especially those who are considering purchasing such an item.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Dorian2 said:


> I also have no time for personal attacks. I also believe in freedom of expression and opinion. Suggesting an entire group of individuals have more money than brains because they may prefer a certain style of guitar is just plain rude to be honest. I VERY rarely comment on certain posters who tend to have a knack to carry on about certain other posters and vice verse. But I HAVE been sitting back and reading threads where it seems that 1 guy goes out of his way to sideline the actual intention of the thread, especially if it has anything to do with equipment of a certain price point, or more specifically, which large company that manufactures these things for the guitar society is the subject.
> 
> It's fucking annoying and totally unjustified, condescending, and unfair to posters here who want to learn what others are using and doing, especially those who are considering purchasing such an item.


............or anything to do with science or technology. Or ...... I could go on. If we aren't following his example of a perfect, shining individual, trying to feed all the sick children while keeping only US retailers in business, we "have more money than brains".

I also think 'tongue in cheek' should be somewhat humorous and not just nasty and condescending. But that's just me, I guess.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

LanceT said:


> I didn't read it that way. Thought it was basically harmless posting.


I'm starting to think you're just steadfastly logged into a different account. Someone defending that clown is hard to believe!


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Dorian2 said:


> I also have no time for personal attacks. I also believe in freedom of expression and opinion. Suggesting an entire group of individuals have more money than brains because they may prefer a certain style of guitar is just plain rude to be honest. I VERY rarely comment on certain posters who tend to have a knack to carry on about certain other posters and vice verse. But I HAVE been sitting back and reading threads where it seems that 1 guy goes out of his way to sideline the actual intention of the thread, especially if it has anything to do with equipment of a certain price point, or more specifically, which large company that manufactures these things for the guitar society is the subject.
> 
> It's fucking annoying and totally unjustified, condescending, and unfair to posters here who want to learn what others are using and doing, especially those who are considering purchasing such an item.


I can't really disagree. Maybe I don't care enough to have it bother me but I see your point.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

High/Deaf said:


> ............or anything to do with science or technology. Or ...... I could go on. If we aren't following his example of a perfect, shining individual, trying to feed all the sick children while keeping only US retailers in business, we "have more money than brains".
> 
> I also think 'tongue in cheek' should be somewhat humorous and not just nasty and condescending. But that's just me, I guess.


Every notice the most judgemental people are usually found in a big building praying to an imaginary friend once a week.......kinda ironic aye!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Chitmo said:


> Every notice the most judgemental people are usually found in a big building praying to an imaginary friend once a week.......kinda ironic aye!


Better there than knockin' on my door. Same here - perhaps he should start a 'My Preach' thread and those that are interested can enter. I'd personally stay out - even if it was in the Politics section.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Chitmo said:


> I'm starting to think you're just steadfastly logged into a different account. Someone defending that clown is hard to believe!


I've been plenty clear. I don't care for the personal attacks. Even if it was against you no matter how much I couldn't stand your attitude.



Chitmo said:


> Every notice the most judgemental people are usually found in a big building praying to an imaginary friend once a week.......kinda ironic aye!


Holy man, talk about judgmental - what do you suppose you are up to? And truly, why would this be relevant?


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

LanceT said:


> I've been plenty clear. I don't care for the personal attacks. Even if it was against you no matter how much I couldn't stand your attitude.
> 
> 
> 
> Holy man, talk about judgmental - what do you suppose you are up to? And truly, why would this be relevant?


You really don't follow his threads and posts do you? Go sift through his last 100 posts and if you have more active brain cells than an amoeba you'll figure out why he pisses everyone off.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Time to move on..........


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