# Bass: For Guitarists



## Robboman

Just wanted to document a story and some thoughts from a longtime gigging guitarist's perspective.

There seems to be at least 10 guitar players out there for every one bass player. Generally true in almost every city\region. 

I'm not one of those super well-connected guys who knows every player in the scene. I mostly stayed in the same band with the same buddies for long runs. The only position that has turned over a few times over the years is the bassist. I'd been lucky in the past, each time a need for a new bass player developed, we found a good guy right away and carried on.

Luck ended last year. My last band had kind of fizzed out anyway, but the bass player moving away (again!) was the last nail in the coffin.

A few months ago I was getting the itch to get a new band started. Drummer was keen as ever, and another great guitarist\friend was also interested. He's great, we played together in a 2-guitar band way back when. But both of us had spent years in separate bands that were TRIOs. Both of us were used to covering all the guitar parts alone (plus vocals) with only bass and drums accompanying. 

We started thinking about bassists we knew. First guy we asked couldn't commit. Second guy was great, we jammed twice with him.. and THEN he quit. After that we came up blank. We know a few other bassists, but no one 'right' who was available.

Then I had this weird epiphany idea...

Me: "Hey man... maybe we don't need another guy. What if we just kept this as a trio?"

Other guitarist: "How? Who would play bass?"

Me: "I would. And.. you would."

Other guitarist: "Whaaa?"

Me: "What if I play bass for half our material, and you play bass for the other half?"

Other guitarist: <blank stare>

Me: "Seriously. How hard can it be? Only four strings, and NO pedals. No solos. Just hold down a solid bassline."

Other guitarist: "But we're not bass players. We don't even have bass rigs."

Me: "That's easy.. it's just gear. I loves buying me new gear!" 

Other guitarist: "I dunno man. We're not REAL bass players. You can always tell when a guitar player is playing the bass. It's never the same."

Me: "Yeah, that might be true for jamming.. but you and I are both pros. Maybe it's just a matter of taking bass more seriously. Like really practicing, learning the songs properly on bass until the technique comes together."

Other guitarist: "Hmmm..."

Me: "Besides, we don't need to rock like Geddy or Flea. It's just a bunch of simple cover tunes. HOW HARD CAN IT BE?"


So we set out to test this concept. We both already owned cheap bass guitars (mine had never left the house.. only used it for the occasional recording). We borrowed a nice bass amp for the jam space. After we each spent some time learning bass parts at home, we got together to give it a try.

Results so far? Musically it's a resounding success! It works! At least for us. We knew it from the first jam and each time since it gets better and easier to play the bass almost like a pro. I don't know why I never thought of this before!

It's gonna work, the only things we need to iron out are logistics, like do we need to have two guitar rigs onstage, how and when to switch up between bass and guitar, etc. 

I'm surprised how much fun I'm having on bass. The bass is like a brand new toy. Even tired old overdone covers are fun again on bass.

It never occurred to me how easy bassists have it in cover bands. On guitar, especially in a trio, you have a lot more things to worry about than you do on bass. Yet we always got paid the same in my bands. 

For example: 

Guitar: You need clean, crunch, boost, lead, effects, etc, and proper relative levels when switching between.
Bass: One good bass sound and you're done. 

Guitar: Hard solos and lots of weird chords.
Bass: No solos, almost all single notes you can easily hear in the original recording.

Guitar: Often have to cover songs with two or more distinct guitar parts using only one guitar. Compromise.
Bass: One bass, one bassline. Learn it, rinse and repeat. 

Guitar: Song has keys? Horns? Maybe the guitarist can sort of 'fake' those parts.
Bass: Just play the bass please.

Guitar: Song has literally NO guitar at all. But it's a big hit and the rest of the band wants to do it anyway. And hey, there are electronic sounds\keys\horns, maybe you can somehow fake those parts? 
Bass. Just play the bass please.

All things considered, if I'm ever looking to join a different gigging band in future, I wouldn't rule out bass opportunities. Playing bass doesn't mean you stop being a guitarist.


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## Hamstrung




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## james on bass

You put a lot of work into typing out a joke that isn't even all that funny. Somewhat amusing, yes, but not hilarious.


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## sambonee

It doesn't come off as al joke to me. I've always liked bass. I had the misfortune of getting my R hand fingertips quid sore from bass playing. 

So when I started using V-picks, and heard they made world renound bass picks, I went for it. I also started noticing how many accomplished bassists actually use a pick. I'm at a point where I now insist on playing bass with a pick to avoid the pain in my R hand fingertips. 

His picks are $4-$5 each but they sound amazing. And they're so smooth. I also started using the DR neon strings. These sound amazing and last for a long time. I've now got a MIJ emperador bass,and a kala U-bass. The kala ubass is the bomb!!!! This one is for the fingers. 

Do one bass rig, one guitar amp, and two guita rigs with a master a/b switcher. Keep a traynor quarter horse around and ready to plug its line out Ito the PA in case another guitarist or bassist wants to sit in for a few songs and as a 2nd rig backup. (They're $100 at L&M now).


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## allthumbs56

Our bassist is a major contributor on vocals and does a lot of the frontman work. He also owns the P/A and handles most of it's setup so I'd say his contribution is fair and even.

Buuuuuuuuut, I know many bass players who show up with their (nominal) gear and stand in the back and just play roots and transitions. Don't get me wrong - It's an important role but if you're not Rush or Level 42 it's a pretty easy vacation-like break for a guitarist to do now and then.

I love playing bass................ I like sitting in on drums for the same reason.


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## hollowbody

I guess it depends on the song. If you're just banging out quarter-note root notes, then yes, pretty much anyone could do it. But there are a number of basslines in some of the covers we do that are quite involved and getting the groove absolutely bang-on is so key. Coming from guitar, sure, if you put in the time, you can get there - it's not all that different. But I wouldn't say bass is a simple job for mouth-breathers who don't do as much as other people in the band.


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## sulphur

It is hard to find a bass player, a good one!

My buddy is playing bass in the band I'm currently in,
that's his preferred instrument, though he also plays guitar.
I don't think that a bass player has any lesser of a role to consider a lower cut at a gig though.

I was in a three piece for years, we used to do a switch.
It was a consideration, when setting up the set lists too, so just one more thing to work in.
We simply switched off, "bass in the back" was the saying, so we wouldn't snarl up the cables.

We'd always talked about having totally separate rigs.
He's a finger player and I would use a pick back then, so, our attack was different,
but I'd just back the volume off a bit to compensate.
You could also use your own guitar too that way, twice the gear though.

I was relegated to playing bass with a few guys from work at jams,
for the reason you state, I was the only guy with a bass!
I did have a blast though.


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## Robboman

Hey James.. I'm no joke! Not sure where you got that impression.. but yeah, too long a post. I'm loving this bass thing for real. 



sulphur said:


> It is hard to find a bass player, a good one!
> 
> My buddy is playing bass in the band I'm currently in,
> that's his preferred instrument, though he also plays guitar.
> I don't think that a bass player has any lesser of a role to consider a lower cut at a gig though.
> 
> I was in a three piece for years, we used to do a switch.
> It was a consideration, when setting up the set lists too, so just one more thing to work in.
> We simply switched off, "bass in the back" was the saying, so we wouldn't snarl up the cables.
> 
> We'd always talked about having totally separate rigs.
> He's a finger player and I would use a pick back then, so, our attack was different,
> but I'd just back the volume off a bit to compensate.
> You could also use your own guitar too that way, twice the gear though.
> 
> I was relegated to playing bass with a few guys from work at jams,
> for the reason you state, I was the only guy with a bass!
> I did have a blast though.


Cool! I was wondering if anyone else here had ever done this. 

Gear wise, I'm not sure how it will work for us yet when we start gigging. I think we can share one bass rig, but I'm not sure either of us wants to share one single guitar amp \ pedalboard. Even though that would be way more efficient and less gear to haul. But we each like our own rigs too much. 

Did you just switch instruments whenever, during gigs? I always like to minimize dead air between songs, so I was thinking we'd each play full sets on either bass or guitar, and only switch on the set breaks. The other thing is, although we're both getting pretty solid on bass, it's a bit weird when you first switch up.. it seems to take a bit for the fingers to adjust. Is that something you just get used to eventually? I was thinking that playing full sets on the same instrument would help to minimize the weirdness.


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## 4345567

________________


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## bluzfish

james on bass said:


> You put a lot of work into typing out a joke that isn't even all that funny. Somewhat amusing, yes, but not hilarious.


Unfortunately, the OP has a serious view that some people have regarding bass players. As a professional bass player for over 20 years, I can attest to the fact that playing quarter notes on the root is easy, playing lines that compliment or add to the music without walking all over other parts of an arrangement is not so easy.

There are countless bass players out there that get by just riding the wave of the rest of the band but few who can fit in as a major contributor and perform as a uniquely integral part of the band.


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## bw66

I'm primarily a fingerstyle guitarist, but took up bass about 3 years ago now. For me the transition to being a competent bass player wasn't difficult, though I tend to keep it simple as much as possible. I play bass full time in our band but still play a lot of solo fingerstyle stuff too. so I'm back and forth. The biggest problem is that playing bass beats the crap out of my fingernails, so I can't take a fingerstyle gig for about a week after a band gig (not that I'm _that_ busy with either one...). It is certainly a different approach; and personality-wise, I'm much more comfortable being "in the back" playing bass.

It certainly does seem to be hard to find a decent bass player - I get a lot more requests to play bass than guitar, even though I am a much better guitar player than bassist. 

I don't know about anyone else, but for some reason I find it much harder to sing while playing bass, even though I'm usually playing a simpler part. I think that is has to do with being "locked in" tempo-wise, but I'm not sure. Anyone else find this?


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## bluzfish

bw66 said:


> I don't know about anyone else, but for some reason I find it much harder to sing while playing bass, even though I'm usually playing a simpler part. I think that is has to do with being "locked in" tempo-wise, but I'm not sure. Anyone else find this?


I definitely do. The only way I can sing while playing bass is to get the bass line down so pat after many hours of practice that I could play it in my sleep. But then maybe that's a good thing, considering my wimpy rock voice.


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## Robboman

bluzfish said:


> Unfortunately, the OP has a serious view that some people have regarding bass players. As a professional bass player for over 20 years, I can attest to the fact that playing quarter notes on the root is easy, playing lines that compliment or add to the music without walking all over other parts of an arrangement is not so easy.
> 
> There are countless bass players out there that get by just riding the wave of the rest of the band but few who can fit in as a major contributor and perform as a uniquely integral part of the band.


If I implied that playing bass is easy, I only meant that in context of the following:

1. It's relatively easy.. _for ME. _I've been a pro guitarist for about 20 years and do have some talent, I'm finding so far that a lot of the required skills are transferable.

2. A lot of cover songs on bass ARE easy. My bands tend to stick pretty close to the original recordings. Lots of hit songs have VERY simple bass lines that even us mere guitarists can play well on the bass. If the original song is all quarter notes on the root, then that's what I want to hear from the bass even if I'm not the one playing. 

In no way would I try to downplay the art of composing for bass, or the improv ability of real bass masters in music where that fits. It's awesome, and a different mindset than guitar.


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## Robboman

bluzfish said:


> I definitely do. The only way I can sing while playing bass is to get the bass line down so pat after many hours of practice that I could play it in my sleep. But then maybe that's a good thing, considering my wimpy rock voice.


I'm finding it near impossible to sing lead. I've always done lead\back vocals while playing guitar, so has my other player, but both of us found out right away how much harder it seems while playing bass. We decided to divy up all our songs so that I'm always playing guitar while singing lead and vice\versa. I chip in the odd backing vocal, but even that is awkward.


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## james on bass

Perhaps I did not take the OP in the proper context and apologize for being a smart-ass. I can't really argue that an accomplished guitarist could easily plunk out root 8th notes without issue. I am certainly not a flashy player by any means but can tell a guitarist playing bass from a bassist. Again, not much of an issue for some types of music. For me, bass is all about the use of space, understanding where that space may or may not be, a strong grasp of harmony, rhythm and not stepping all over the melody.


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## sulphur

We did used to switch out during the set.

Between the two of us, we'd sing about 40% of the material each and the drummer sang the rest.
I'd start out on guitar for the first third or so, then we'd switch.
The other guy was kind of into C&W, so we'd slow it down for a song or two, he'd do some that rocked too though.
By the time I'd get the guitar back for the end of the set, we'd start ramping up the R&R again.

We used to like to pair up a couple of back to back covers by the same band before the switch.
That medley would last a good five, six minutes, so they were thirsty anyway.
A full set each would leave an odd count, unless the drummer sings one himself, or am I missing something?

It's funny you say that about playing bass and singing,
each switch, the guy with guitar would be singing lead in that band too.
I suppose that its' the way we'd learned those songs too.

We did add a forth member the last couple of years.
He was a good singer, but a rudimentary guitarist, so he just sang.
After the addition though, I stayed on guitar.
Weird how that worked out.


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## Robboman

Update: My bass playing is coming along well, I'm having fun in band practice and getting better and better. We jammed last night and we all feel this lineup is about ready to (hopefully) hit the stage soon. Gotta get some promo together and get ourselves out there. 

All good.. except I saw this today and now have to reconsider the whole thing:


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## Moosehead

Good thread!

Yes, i also find it hard to sing and play bass(without fuggin up). Something about keeping the rhythms make it harder, for me anyway. 

As far as rigs go get yourself an old yba-1 and you're set for guitar and bass. They're cheap and easy to find.

I like to play bass and playing along with tunes is an easy way to work up your chops.


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## Guest




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## gtrchris

As a classically trained guitarist, I did sub in on bass in a jazz trio(cruise ship gig) and a number of new country gigs. It's a great experience and improves your sense of groove i.e. locking in with the drums. It will improve your sense of time as a guitarist by helping you relax into the larger form of the song-many guitar players are guilty of noodling on top of the groove and not sitting in the groove. I find that I can sense the form/structure of the songs better on bass and connect to all the band members on a rhythmic level. You'll know instantly when another band member(usually the drummer) starts speeding up. 
**I find it a lot harder to sing and play bass than play guitar and sing, so it takes some practice.
Overall IMO it's a great experience switching up and playing a different role/instrument in a band- it will also help you when you are writing,arranging and laying down tracks in the studio.


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## Guest

gtrchris said:


> **I find it a lot harder to sing and play bass than play guitar and sing, so it takes some practice.


I found that too. As guitarists, I think it's because we tend to concentrate on transposing
to bass and that throws us off. At least to me anyways. I've only recently picked up bass.
Mainly because I was jamming with three other guitars and I was volunteered to play bass.
Enjoyed it immensely. However, that was only two jams and I haven't touched it since. I
may just put my rig up for trade soon.


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## zontar

I can't play either and sing--but I'm closer to being able to do both with bass.


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## bluzfish

And now for some silly humour...


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## sulphur

That was the same case in the three piece I was in.
When we did the switch, it was to get the guitar and sing.

Neither of us did sing primary vocals while playing bass,
though we both did do some back up vocals while on bass.


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