# Hilton Volume Pedal



## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

When considering the price of these; $419 cdn, are they worth justifying the cost considering that they use an infrared control system rather than a pot, where pots may require regular replacement and you wind up spending more money down the road either replacing them or having to buy another pedal? As well, there are a number of other issues with volume pedals that apparently don't exist with the Hilton; tone suck, broken strings, superior circuitry, etc.

Apparently, Keith Hilton is an engineer who worked on the lunar landing module. It sounds like he really knows what he's doing.

Is there an off the shelf volume pedal that can compete with the Hilton for less bucks? The one that keeps coming up in reviews as best of the best is apparently the Boss FV-500H.

Guitar Pedals | Hilton Electronics


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

The Lehie might be worth looking at:

LEHLE


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

jimsz said:


> When considering the price of these; $419 cdn, are they worth justifying the cost considering that they use an infrared control system rather than a pot, where pots may require regular replacement and you wind up spending more money down the road either replacing them or having to buy another pedal? As well, there are a number of other issues with volume pedals that apparently don't exist with the Hilton; tone suck, broken strings, superior circuitry, etc.
> 
> Apparently, Keith Hilton is an engineer who worked on the lunar landing module. It sounds like he really knows what he's doing.
> 
> ...


A decent pot should last 5 years, at least. They are typically rated for MANY operations. For instance, this one is rated for 100,000 cycles. Wah Pot - 100K That is a whole lot of treadle movement. If you're chained to a studio chair and forced at knifepoint to play '70's porn soundtrack music, 18 hours a day, every day, then yes , it will require regular replacement. But for a volume pedal (which enjoys much less movement than a wah), that sucker oughta last you a decade of reliable performance, at least.

The key thing with volume pedals is whether the pot/mechanism taper suits you and the angle suits your foot/ankle. For instance, if you play sitting down (as pedal steel players do), then the angle required will be different than a standing player.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

player99 said:


> The Lehie might be worth looking at:
> 
> LEHLE


Found that at Cosmo for $330 and locally here for $390. Serious price discrepancy from the local guy, makes it almost as expensive as the Hilton. Have you tried one or own one?


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

mhammer said:


> A decent pot should last 5 years, at least. They are typically rated for MANY operations. For instance, this one is rated for 100,000 cycles. Wah Pot - 100K That is a whole lot of treadle movement. If you're chained to a studio chair and forced at knifepoint to play '70's porn soundtrack music, 18 hours a day, every day, then yes , it will require regular replacement. But for a volume pedal (which enjoys much less movement than a wah), that sucker oughta last you a decade of reliable performance, at least.
> 
> The key thing with volume pedals is whether the pot/mechanism taper suits you and the angle suits your foot/ankle. For instance, if you play sitting down (as pedal steel players do), then the angle required will be different than a standing player.


Lol, like the part about playing 70's porn. Hilarious. I'll probably be sitting when using it, so I'll need to take that into consideration.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

jimsz said:


> Found that at Cosmo for $330 and locally here for $390. Serious price discrepancy from the local guy, makes it almost as expensive as the Hilton. Have you tried one or own one?


Nope. I watched on the gear page as it was being developed.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

The prices of pedals in general has been getting out of control. We have to pay almost 50% more for being in Canada with exchange, fees, shipping etc. I would try the Boss one before going crazy. I used a cheapy Dunlop volume pedal and it was fine with a buffer in front of it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

jimsz said:


> Lol, like the part about playing 70's porn. Hilarious. I'll probably be sitting when using it, so I'll need to take that into consideration.


I was going to say "Playing _White Room_ and _Tales of Brave Ulysses_, 15 sets a week for the last 20 years in a Cream cover band", but I've used that one enough already. Time to move on to another example. 

Yeah, the angle part doesn't necessarily make it a "bad" volume pedal, just potentially a poor fit to a given player's context. I think, and have stated here over and over, that volume pedals can be as personal a choice as an overdrive, maybe moreso. Not just because of impedance, durability or angle, but because of how the player _uses_ volume control. Some folks use them just to turn down, or compensate for an unintended volume boost from another pedal. In those cases, taper and foot angle doesn't really matter much. But other players (especially pedal steel players) use volume pedals in an expressive way. The pedal has to work _with_ the player's phrasing, constantly. Those players require long scratch-free life from their volume pedals; which is who I gather Hilton makes them for.

It would be interesting to have someone provide sample counts of how many rotations/sweeps a volume pedal pot goes through in a year, as a function of the style of music the musician plays. Maybe Dunlap can stick a counter on a few customers' volume pedals and provide the data. They'd be able to make recommendations to players about how long they might expect a wah or volume pot to last for them, given their type of music and schedule.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

mhammer said:


> But other players (especially pedal steel players) use volume pedals in an expressive way. The pedal has to work _with_ the player's phrasing, constantly. Those players require long scratch-free life from their volume pedals; which is who I gather Hilton makes them for.


Absolutely, Hilton makes them for steel players who sit and guitar players who stand. The low profile and standard have their own 24v adapters which must be used with the pedal while the pro version can be used on pedal boards with regular 9v power supplies. For myself, I'm looking for the sit down version for lap steel.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Oh, and I should make mention that the Hilton is an _optical_ volume pedal, which are fundamentally scratch-free, and NEVER need a pot to be replaced. The housing, where the upper half covers the lower half, serves several functions, from what I gather. First very sturdy, and nothing gets loose. Second, BIG big target for your feet. Third, no matter what direction your foot is coming from, the treadle movement is as pure a straight piston action as you can get, with no side-to-side wobble or stress. Fourth, NO undesired light gets in there. They make mention of the pedal using infra-red. I don't know if this provides any advantages, electronically, but certainly there is very little risk of ambient light getting in and "corrupting" what gets sensed, simply because ambient light is very seldom infra-red.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

mhammer said:


> Oh, and I should make mention that the Hilton is an _optical_ volume pedal, which are fundamentally scratch-free, and NEVER need a pot to be replaced. The housing, where the upper half covers the lower half, serves several functions, from what I gather. First very sturdy, and nothing gets loose. Second, BIG big target for your feet. Third, no matter what direction your foot is coming from, the treadle movement is as pure a straight piston action as you can get, with no side-to-side wobble or stress. Fourth, NO undesired light gets in there. They make mention of the pedal using infra-red. I don't know if this provides any advantages, electronically, but certainly there is very little risk of ambient light getting in and "corrupting" what gets sensed, simply because ambient light is very seldom infra-red.


Those are a lot of good reasons to spend the extra dough for that pedal. I'm one for usually opting for quality worry free products that will last a long and sometimes hold their value if you ever want to sell them.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Pulled the trigger on a used Lehle from a guy on Vancouver Isle yesterday, excellent condition and comes with everything included for a decent price. Just waiting for it to be shipped over, hopefully by mid week. This will go well together with the Doherty Doozy lap steel that was for sale here last year.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

jimsz said:


> When considering the price of these; $419 cdn, are they worth justifying the cost considering that they use an infrared control system rather than a pot, where pots may require regular replacement and you wind up spending more money down the road either replacing them or having to buy another pedal?


Well considering in my life I have bought two volume pedals (used)--and the second was not to replace the first, but to have one for a guitar board & the other for a bass board -and spent barely over $100 for the two, I have way to go before I get to $419--and actually seeing as how I use two --$838?

But it's up to you and how often you use it & what you need from it.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Bass? Interesting.

The amount of stories I’ve heard directly from folks that had the EB string break mid set, ..I wanna worry about mine when I’m playing. If or when that happens I’m skipping right to the Lehle


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

zontar said:


> Well considering in my life I have bought two volume pedals (used)--and the second was not to replace the first, but to have one for a guitar board & the other for a bass board -and spent barely over $100 for the two, I have way to go before I get to $419--and actually seeing as how I use two --$838?
> 
> But it's up to you and how often you use it & what you need from it.


It'll be used for a lap steel, which means constant use when playing, so it has to be built like a tank. When I checked out a lap steel forum, some started out with the usual volume pedals and wore them out in no time and were either constantly repairing or replacing them year after year. Many went with the high end pedals and never had an issue. The big fave volume pedal with those guys was the Goodrich upwards to $800.

The used Lehle I got was $250 and will last a lifetime of constant heavy use. No strings or pots, no loss of tone, quality unit.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I haven’t tried a Hilton.

I’ve used Ernie Balls and Morleys over the years.

For me, Morley volume pedals (especially now that they don’t need their own postal code) are the smoothest and quietest.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I wish there were more volume / wah pedals. Morley makes one.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

jimsz said:


> It'll be used for a lap steel, which means constant use when playing, so it has to be built like a tank. When I checked out a lap steel forum, some started out with the usual volume pedals and wore them out in no time and were either constantly repairing or replacing them year after year. Many went with the high end pedals and never had an issue. The big fave volume pedal with those guys was the Goodrich upwards to $800.
> 
> The used Lehle I got was $250 and will last a lifetime of constant heavy use. No strings or pots, no loss of tone, quality unit.


Fair enough, so it makes sense for you, and may make sense for others.
It doesn't make sense for me.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

jimsz said:


> It'll be used for a lap steel, which means constant use when playing, so it has to be built like a tank. When I checked out a lap steel forum, some started out with the usual volume pedals and wore them out in no time and were either constantly repairing or replacing them year after year. Many went with the high end pedals and never had an issue. The big fave volume pedal with those guys was the Goodrich upwards to $800.
> 
> The used Lehle I got was $250 and will last a lifetime of constant heavy use. No strings or pots, no loss of tone, quality unit.


I have a Goodrich. Only pedal I use and it's wonderful. I like that it's passive -- no batteries or wall warts, no semiconductors between me and the amp. Here's a great youtube video on *using* a volume pedal. On pedal steel, but the same principles apply.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

If only there was a way to put a volume control in a guitar...


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

zontar said:


> Fair enough, so it makes sense for you, and may make sense for others.
> It doesn't make sense for me.


It's like that for a lot of things, some like to play Rondos while others play PRS, some drive Ford and others Ferrari., some eat mac and cheese and others filet mignon. For me, it's not just about having worry free gear, it's about quality, which I always prefer. (;


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Doug Gifford said:


> I have a Goodrich. Only pedal I use and it's wonderful. I like that it's passive -- no batteries or wall warts, no semiconductors between me and the amp. Here's a great youtube video on *using* a volume pedal. On pedal steel, but the same principles apply.


Great video, Doug. I'm going to try that technique.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

player99 said:


> I wish there were more volume / wah pedals. Morley makes one.


Same! As a country player, who occasionally likes to noodle some blues rock, a volume-wah is a great tool.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Well, that was bizarre. I was standing outside when the Canada Post delivery driver pulled into my driveway, so I started walking towards her, but instead she immediately turned around and bolted out the driveway, despite the fact I was waving my arms and yelling. She totally saw me but decided to leave anyways. Fifteen minutes later, my tracking information said a notice was left in my mailbox stating that the driver was unable to make the delivery so now I have to drive 10k to the postal outlet to pick up the parcel tomorrow afternoon. Wtf just happened?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

You scary.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

jimsz said:


> Well, that was bizarre. I was standing outside when the Canada Post delivery driver pulled into my driveway, so I started walking towards her, but instead she immediately turned around and bolted out the driveway, despite the fact I was waving my arms and yelling. She totally saw me but decided to leave anyways. Fifteen minutes later, my tracking information said a notice was left in my mailbox stating that the driver was unable to make the delivery so now I have to drive 10k to the postal outlet to pick up the parcel tomorrow afternoon. Wtf just happened?


Stalker.

Scaring poor innocent postal workers.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Do you think me wearing a hockey goalie mask and carrying an ax had something to do with it? Nah.


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

jimsz said:


> Well, that was bizarre. I was standing outside when the Canada Post delivery driver pulled into my driveway, so I started walking towards her, but instead she immediately turned around and bolted out the driveway, despite the fact I was waving my arms and yelling. She totally saw me but decided to leave anyways. Fifteen minutes later, my tracking information said a notice was left in my mailbox stating that the driver was unable to make the delivery so now I have to drive 10k to the postal outlet to pick up the parcel tomorrow afternoon. Wtf just happened?


This situation is all too familiar to me. 

Even with a sign, right on the post box...
"Deliveries - I am home, ring front doorbell"

The postie always leaves a card and speeds off...


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

jimsz said:


> It's like that for a lot of things, some like to play Rondos while others play PRS, some drive Ford and others Ferrari., some eat mac and cheese and others filet mignon. For me, it's not just about having worry free gear, it's about quality, which I always prefer. (;


I had a roommate who made a lot more than I did and he lived primarily on microwaved hotdogs & room temperature Diet Coke.
But I later found out he was actually giving a lot of money to charity so he ate cheaply (Although not a very healthy diet)

So people will do different things & prefer them for various reasons--it made sense to him.

And there are guitars that I would likely never buy, even if could easily afford them, as it doesn't make sense to me to spend that much on one, but for someone else it would totally make sense.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I had to live on hotdogs and Kraft Dinner after I bought a Kingsley overdrive pedal.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

player99 said:


> I had to live on hotdogs and Kraft Dinner after I bought a Kingsley overdrive pedal.


That diet would kill me.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

zontar said:


> That diet would kill me.


When I was I kid we would use 1 pack of KD noodles but the cheese from 2 KD boxes and a huge glop of butter. Double cheese.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

player99 said:


> When I was I kid we would use 1 pack of KD noodles but the cheese from 2 KD boxes and a huge glop of butter. Double cheese.


I could eat like that when I was younger as well.
In high school I'd go with friends to a pizza place and eat a 15" pizza myself.
(It may have been a 16" pizza)
I had a very active metabolism & cast iron stomach.

But now?
No.

(And at the time of the microwave hotdog & room temp diet coke roommate I wasn't buying gear--I could barely afford rent & food.)


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

zontar said:


> I could eat like that when I was younger as well.
> In high school I'd go with friends to a pizza place and eat a 15" pizza myself.
> (It may have been a 16" pizza)
> I had a very active metabolism & cast iron stomach.
> ...


Have you ever seen someone fold a whole pizza in half and eat it all like a big sandwich??


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

player99 said:


> Have you ever seen someone fold a whole pizza in half and eat it all like a big sandwich??


No


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

player99 said:


> Have you ever seen someone fold a whole pizza in half and eat it all like a big sandwich??


I do it was a 1/4 or 1/3 of a pizza. Big slice sandwich


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