# option 5 destination rotation vs destination rotation single...



## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...does anyone know what differentiates these two pedals?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Hey Dave,

Here's a link to the manual for the Destination Rotation. Seems like the difference is stereo outputs (Bi-amp mode). If you're running two amps it might be handy, but I've gone back to a mono rig myself.

Option 5 - Download pdf Manuals


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...got it, thanks. now i just have to figure out whether to buy that option 5 on craigslist tonight, or wait and see what the tech 21 roto choir is all about:

TECH 21 - ROTO CHOIR


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Well as always, to thine own ears be true.

One difference I see is that with the Option 5 you can set the top speed of both slow and fast rotors. With the Tech 21 it seems like you can only set the speed of the fast rotor, but I could be mis reading the manual.

I'm happy with the Option 5 single. It's not an effect I'll use all the time, but when you kick it in it's a spacey sound for sure. Good luck.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...i'm going for that robin trower thing.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Well if you like the Robin Trower thing then maybe you want a Uni-Vibe typ pedal instead.

Incidentally, you'll get closer to a Trower sound if the vibe or phaser unit is placed in front of whatever distortion you're using, as opposed to the usual location of after it. Indeed, it is surprising how "Trowery" a simple 4-stage phaser can sound when placed just ahead of a distortion.

Placed after a distortion, a phaser or vibe will essentially filter the harmonic content already generated. Placed before a distortion, the broad dips produced by the vibe will pull the signal away and towards the clipping point, which results in different harmonic content being generated. An audible difference.

I have a Line 6 Roto machine. 
- Where the Tech 21 has a fixed slow speed and variable fast speed, the L6 lets you adjust both. 
- Where the Tech 21 has 1 ramp speed, the L6 has 3 fixed ramp rates. 
- Where the Tech 21 lets you adjust mic-ing position, the L6 lacks this feature.
- The L6 provides 3 "models" of different Leslie cabs and adjust balance of upper and lower rotors, where the Tech 21 uses the Position and Hi/Low EQ controls to tinker with quality.
- Both units have a drive control to set the amount of grit. Where Tech 21 lets you adjust volume and drive independently, the L6 has no volume adjustment such that higher drive levels mean a louder effect.
- Tech21 is mono while L6 can be run in mono or stereo.

The topic has been beaten to death with a stick, but I still maintain that Leslie emulators really need to be run in stereo to duplicate the experience of standing beside one. I can understand, however, where a person may simply want the ramping, dual speed, and swirl without caring too much about the spatial aspects.

If the L6 had a volume pot, it'd be absolutely killer and my #1 choice.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...i'll try the line six at l&m first chance i get.

have you auditioned the option 5 destination rotation?

i'm picking one up tonight.

it's used, so i'll just resell if it doesn't do the trick.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Nah. Haven't taken the opportunity. I have no doubt its a fine product. I think when it comes to such emulators, often it boils down to the feature set that captures one's specific needs/goals. For example, the recently issued Keeley phaser nailed the goals of a number of consumers. They didn't need Leslie tone, per se, and they didn't necessarily want all the bells and whistles of the more complicated phasers out there, but they did want the ramping up and down. Some folks want the stereo option, and others find it of less utility.

Finally, I'll just mention that Behringer makes a cheap clone of the ToneCore pedal. Unfortunately it has a crappy switching system such that you have to hold the treadle down for 2 seconds to ramp. Kind of misses the point, doesn't it?

If you've never used a Tone Core pedal, they have a dual switch under the foot treadle. One switch is actuated by light presses, and the bypass is actuated by a heavy press that produces an audible/tactile click. The ramp-up/ramp-down uses the lighter press. I can see where some folks would prefer separate switches à la Tech 21 or Option 5 in a gigging situation; it can be easier to aim your foot than it is to gauge your pressure.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I can't comment on the sound of the Tech 21 or Line 6 units, but the Option 5 sounds significantly more like a Leslie than any Univibe I've owned or heard. I've had a few and they always end up sitting idle. I'm currently running my Option 5 after the dirt boxes per the manufacturers instructions, but I may try it earlier n the chain for fun.

Gotta love that Bridge of Sighs sound.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

If you want full control of low speed, high speed, and ramp up - the Boss RT-20 will do all of this when used with an expression pedal.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

yeah. The RT-20 is a decent unit....with psychedelic lights, too! I can see where some folks might balk at the footprint. I suppose it depends on how cluttered one's pedalboard is already.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

mhammer said:


> yeah. The RT-20 is a decent unit....with psychedelic lights, too! I can see where some folks might balk at the footprint. I suppose it depends on how cluttered one's pedalboard is already.


It's definitely big, moreso with an expression pedal, but the control is worth it.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...the line six tone core pedals tend to be very heavy and require a proprietary ac adaptor, but i do like them. the reverb pedal has this amazing choir setting that i really miss since selling it. i will look into the keeley phaser, as well.

also like this:

strymon » Lex Rotary – Rotating Speaker Effects Pedal

don't know if it's affordable.

i have the option 5 single - looking forward to messing with it tonight.





mhammer said:


> Nah. Haven't taken the opportunity. I have no doubt its a fine product. I think when it comes to such emulators, often it boils down to the feature set that captures one's specific needs/goals. For example, the recently issued Keeley phaser nailed the goals of a number of consumers. They didn't need Leslie tone, per se, and they didn't necessarily want all the bells and whistles of the more complicated phasers out there, but they did want the ramping up and down. Some folks want the stereo option, and others find it of less utility.
> 
> Finally, I'll just mention that Behringer makes a cheap clone of the ToneCore pedal. Unfortunately it has a crappy switching system such that you have to hold the treadle down for 2 seconds to ramp. Kind of misses the point, doesn't it?
> 
> If you've never used a Tone Core pedal, they have a dual switch under the foot treadle. One switch is actuated by light presses, and the bypass is actuated by a heavy press that produces an audible/tactile click. The ramp-up/ramp-down uses the lighter press. I can see where some folks would prefer separate switches à la Tech 21 or Option 5 in a gigging situation; it can be easier to aim your foot than it is to gauge your pressure.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Strymon is turning into a very impressive company very quickly. Very thoughtful, feature-rich, good-sounding products, that pack a lot into a small package without feeling cluttered.

And yeah, I think Line 6 ate up the profit margin on the Tone Cores with shipping costs! When I did some beta-testing for them back in 2005, Jeorge Tripps sent me a package with 6 docks and all the modules, and that thing must've weighed 25 pounds. Is your car stuck in a snowdrift with the tires spinning? Gimme a call and I'll loan you one to get some extra traction.


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

hey Dave,,,I have an option 5 for sale,,,did you pick yours up yet?

CT.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...okay, i got the option 5 single and put it on the board last night. love the slow speed - it gives me a bit of the trower vibe - but i find the fast speed unusable, and the ramp up and down is way too fast.

btw, i tried putting it in front of the distortion pedals, as someone suggested, but that was just awful.

cocotone and mhammer suggested that what i need is a univibe clone, so i'm going to start looking into those.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

There is nuthin' purdier than a slow Leslie with chords that have lots of open strings. It's like sitting in the middle of the symphony orchestra. Fast speed, of itself, has its uses, but organ players have always used the *transition* to and from fast speed as their expressive device, rather than simply turn on the fast speed and stick with it.

You can, and should, put a Uni-Vibe before a distortion, but do NOT put a Leslie emulator anywhere other than at the end of the chain unless you're seeking outlandish or experimental sounds. Rotating speakers are, by nature, a type of post-production effect, such that one first creates a sound and _then_ spins it.

Give the Danelectro Cool Cat vibe a shot. I'm not saying it is the best among them, but it is an economical choice, easy to find, and people seem to like it. If that doesn't satisfy, then consider branching out to Dunlop or Fulltone units.

I find it ironic that Uni-Vibes were first developed by Shin-Ei to give a reasonable approximation of rotating speakers, and were called - no joke - Resly-Tones.








But what people have grown to appreciate about them are the very gaps between what a Leslie and a Uni-Vibe does. Though vibes are essentially 4-stage phasers, unlike phasers that produce rather focussed deep notches, vibes produce shallow broad dips that are not really notches. Because they are less focussed, they don't command your attention the way a pair or trio of sweeping notches do as they move around the spectrum. Vibes have a "milkier" or pillowy sound that is more like adding some animation to the tone instead of a "special effect". By shifting around where the broad dips are, they influence the behaviour of distortions, by moving the signal a bit closer to and farther away from the clipping point. And that is the magic of Hendrix and Trower tone.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...thanks, mhammer.

i'm going to grab the danelectro cool cat vibe and, if it does the trick, i'll upgrade to the mjm sixties vibe.



mhammer said:


> There is nuthin' purdier than a slow Leslie with chords that have lots of open strings. It's like sitting in the middle of the symphony orchestra. Fast speed, of itself, has its uses, but organ players have always used the *transition* to and from fast speed as their expressive device, rather than simply turn on the fast speed and stick with it.
> 
> You can, and should, put a Uni-Vibe before a distortion, but do NOT put a Leslie emulator anywhere other than at the end of the chain unless you're seeking outlandish or experimental sounds. Rotating speakers are, by nature, a type of post-production effect, such that one first creates a sound and _then_ spins it.
> 
> ...


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Frankly the fast rotor sound on ANY Leslie simulator and even on an actual Leslie is all but unusable for guitar in my opinion. As Mr. Hammer says, it's the transition between slow and fast rotors that is so appealing. You kick the fast rotor on and as soon as it gets to speed you kick it back down to slow. The slow rotor can be left on while you play, but the fast rotor, not so much.



Reslie.

Gota love the Japanese


Reminds me of this
YouTube - Supplies!


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...yup, i came to the same conclusion while messing with it last night. actually, if i use the slowest 'fast' speed, it morphs between a (slow) leslie and a (fast) vibrato/tremolo effect. i'm also discovereing that i can leave the slow speed leslie on almost all the time.

but the ramp up/down is a biggie. i'll probably shop for a device similar to the option 5 that has either: 1. a more pleasing up/down cycle 2. a large knob that can be manipulated with the foot (git yer minds out of the gutter...now!)  or 3. the fulltone mini deja vibe with a pedal similar to a wah.

still planning on getting a univibe clone. i'll pick up the danelectro cv-1 next week and see if i can work around its shortcomings: 1. volume boost when engaged 2. takes a full second for the effect to come on. actually, i may call danelectro to find out why these obvious flaws haven't been addressed. 




Milkman said:


> Frankly the fast rotor sound on ANY Leslie simulator and even on an actual Leslie is all but unusable for guitar in my opinion. As Mr. Hammer says, it's the transition between slow and fast rotors that is so appealing. You kick the fast rotor on and as soon as it gets to speed you kick it back down to slow. The slow rotor can be left on while you play, but the fast rotor, not so much.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

david henman said:


> ...yup, i came to the same conclusion while messing with it last night. actually, if i use the slowest 'fast' speed, it morphs between a (slow) leslie and a (fast) vibrato/tremolo effect. i'm also discovereing that i can leave the slow speed leslie on almost all the time.
> 
> but the ramp up/down is a biggie. i'll probably shop for a device similar to the option 5 that has either: 1. a more pleasing up/down cycle 2. a large knob that can be manipulated with the foot (git yer minds out of the gutter...now!)  or 3. the fulltone mini deja vibe with a pedal similar to a wah.


There ARE those foam retrofit things that go over the knob. Plus you can also buy a knob of the same style in a larger form/diameter. And then there's these things: Welcome to our Website : Option Knob








...and these things:


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...to say that the speed knobs on the option 5 are tiny would be a gross understatement.





mhammer said:


> There ARE those foam retrofit things that go over the knob. Plus you can also buy a knob of the same style in a larger form/diameter. And then there's these things: Welcome to our Website : Option Knob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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