# Raid in China...Guitar Factory shut down...



## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

i'm told there was a raid this week in China.

Many Gibson seized!

Factories are making legitimate guitars on the normal shift...but when the factory is sleeping...freelancers are working the CNC machine... pumping out guitars for their friends on DHGATE.

Oh well...:zzz:


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

And they will be on Ebay within the week?


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

You mean Gibsuns, right?


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

meh - it will never affect me. the only way i'd ever own a gibson guitar would be if someone gave it to me free, or did an unheard of thing... sold it for a realistic price.


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> meh - it will never affect me. the only way i'd ever own a gibson guitar would be if someone gave it to me free, or did an unheard of thing... sold it for a realistic price.


Well they're well built instruments. more for me!


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Man..Alex will be going crazy over this!...


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

Yeah I heard the Chinese don`t need sleep and are digging a tunnel to San Francisco.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

sneakypete said:


> Yeah I heard the Chinese don`t need sleep and are digging a tunnel to San Francisco.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

cheezyridr said:


> meh - it will never affect me. the only way i'd ever own a gibson guitar would be if someone gave it to me free, or did an unheard of thing... sold it for a realistic price.


I have bought many Gibsons for realistic prices, in fact, even the one that I bought new was $1500 after taxes, and I think I got my money's worth.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Any Gibsons I have looked at are made in USA ( at least that is what the stamp says ). I thought the Epi's were made in China. Yes no maybe ?


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

deadear said:


> Any Gibsons I have looked at are made in USA ( at least that is what the stamp says ). I thought the Epi's were made in China. Yes no maybe ?


I've heard a tale (urban myth?) of a new guitar maker looking for a Korean factory to mass produce a guitar for him. While touring one plant he was asked where he wanted the guitar to "be made". They could stamp whatever he wanted on the guitars.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

deadear said:


> Any Gibsons I have looked at are made in USA ( at least that is what the stamp says ). I thought the Epi's were made in China. Yes no maybe ?


When Chinese companies are making their fakes they will put Made In USA because that's what the customers typically want. If you are buying from an authorized Gibson dealer you have nothing to worry about but buying 2nd hand is becoming more challenging. 

I went to look at an old Gibson a couple of years ago and it took me about 5 seconds to identify it as counterfeit. I would likely have a much more difficult time with the ones being made now as they continue to get better all of the time.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Robert1950 said:


> You mean Gibsuns, right?


No, Gibb's sons. They were the ones behind it.:food-smiley-004:


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

hardasmum said:


> I've heard a tale (urban myth?) of a new guitar maker looking for a Korean factory to mass produce a guitar for him. While touring one plant he was asked where he wanted the guitar to "be made". They could stamp whatever he wanted on the guitars.


i don't actually know, but isn't there some way of preventing that? i would think a customs agent would spot a boatload of usa made guitars coming from china, and begin to investigate further. the whole thing conjurs up images of some rusty ship tied to a dock on a foggy night, guarded by triads.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

*Triad* - A chord of three tones arranged in thirds, e.g. the C-major triad c-e-g, root-third-fifth.


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

I'd hate to be in Gibson's shoes...or Fender...or Taylor...or Reverend...or Rickenbacker...especially in this economy...

I visited mainland China 16 years ago and the guitars were in general pretty rough then.

Times have changed. They are now cloning Mercedes Bens, Porsche, BMW...

They now have Korean CNC machine and the labour is cheap...

There is no copyright laws in China and they are pumping out guitars like there is no tomorrow...

Take the Gretsch 5120 for instance...6 bills + or so, in your local music store ...nice guitar after a set-up right?

On Alibaba, TradeTang, DHgate sellers are shipping it to your door for around 3 bills, same guitar but, it has the full 6120 dress up and looks...

So dudes are buying their Billy Bo's, their Falcon, their Bian Setzer, their Les Paul Standard and JR., their Strat, Tele and Jaguar, their Ricky' 6 and 12, doing their own set up and ending up having 10 nice looking and playing Classic Guitar Collection for the price of...you guessed it... 1 Gibson.

Duh...


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I don't really feel bad for them. They've been over-charging for decades. I don't want to see anyone losing their job but on the other hand, I don't like to see people taken to the cleaners, either.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Which Gibson branded guitars are made offshore? I thought gibsons were MIU, epis, melody maker etc were their offshore brands?


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

deadear said:


> Any Gibsons I have looked at are made in USA ( at least that is what the stamp says ). I thought the Epi's were made in China. Yes no maybe ?


You can get Explorers, Flying V's, Firebirds, Lesters, 335, J-200, etc. from China, they are pretty good copies, after new strings and a good set-up.

Cost to your doors is around 3 bills.

It is illegal though. Some folks are outlaws.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

Diablo said:


> Which Gibson branded guitars are made offshore? I thought gibsons were MIU, epis, melody maker etc were their offshore brands?


The answer is none. Epiphones are made in China in a factory wholly owned by Gibson.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

Can anyone wholly own a factory in China? I mean, some of my Japanese English students were P.O.`d because the Chinese are coming to Japan and buying land because they can`t but any in China...the gov`t owns it all...probably doing the same thing in other countries as well, like our beloved fatherland...or is it motherland?


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

sneakypete said:


> Can anyone wholly own a factory in China? I mean, some of my Japanese English students were P.O.`s because the Chinese are coming to Japan and buying land because they can`t but any in China...the gov`t own it all...probably doing the same thing in other countries as well, like our beloved fatherland...or is it motherland?


They are buying up big chunks of Africa.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

sneakypete said:


> Can anyone wholly own a factory in China? I mean, some of my Japanese English students were P.O.`s because the Chinese are coming to Japan and buying land because they can`t but any in China...the gov`t own it all...probably doing the same thing in other countries as well, like our beloved fatherland...or is it motherland?


Yes. You're saying two different things there. There's a difference between the factory and the land it sits on. The Chinese government is keeping a tight rein on the conversion to a free market but private ownership is starting to rise.


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## Gene Machine (Sep 22, 2007)

deadear said:


> Any Gibsons I have looked at are made in USA ( at least that is what the stamp says ). I thought the Epi's were made in China. Yes no maybe ?


"Gibson"s made in China are ILLEGAL, counterfeit, phony. They say Made in USA but are a scam. 

that is the point of the OP, they make them after hours. Midnight Guitar Shop Inc.


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## hummingway (Aug 4, 2011)

So you guys are saying this isn't a real black beauty? http://www.dhgate.com/-with-free-gift-custom-shop-50th-annivesary/p-ff808081308d4e1501309194219e3430.html

It's interesting how you can't see the complete headstock anywhere in the photos.


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## Nick Burman (Aug 17, 2011)

sulphur said:


> *Triad* - A chord of three tones arranged in thirds, e.g. the C-major triad c-e-g, root-third-fifth.


Led by Major Third, with Diminished second in command.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Funny how DHGate makes their site look like Ebay.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

smorgdonkey said:


> When Chinese companies are making their fakes they will put Made In USA because that's what the customers typically want. If you are buying from an authorized Gibson dealer you have nothing to worry about but buying 2nd hand is becoming more challenging.
> 
> I went to look at an old Gibson a couple of years ago and it took me about 5 seconds to identify it as counterfeit. I would likely have a much more difficult time with the ones being made now as they continue to get better all of the time.


I wouldn't be so quick there, I know of a small Mom and Pop music shop that is a Gibson dealer and apparently they believed they were buying real untouched used "Gibson's" because the serial numbers matched up when they called it in, when in fact they were fakes.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

J S Moore said:


> The answer is none. Epiphones are made in China in a factory wholly owned by Gibson.


I don't think that is factual. They have had the same people that make J & D guitars make guitars form them and they did not own that factory.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

hummingway said:


> So you guys are saying this isn't a real black beauty? http://www.dhgate.com/-with-free-gift-custom-shop-50th-annivesary/p-ff808081308d4e1501309194219e3430.html
> 
> It's interesting how you can't see the complete headstock anywhere in the photos.



That one even has an American bridge. Even money it's a pic of a real back beauty and not the guitar you will receive.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

shoretyus said:


> They are buying up big chunks of Africa.


you gotta wonder why this isn't an issue with our governments. it should be


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Morkolo said:


> I wouldn't be so quick there, I know of a small Mom and Pop music shop that is a Gibson dealer and apparently they believed they were buying real untouched used "Gibson's" because the serial numbers matched up when they called it in, when in fact they were fakes.


Well, I am not saying that there won't be exceptions but those folks should have known another way to authenticate that shipment. 'Real untouched used Gibsons' tend to be a flag raiser and real untouched Gibsons come from Gibson.

That's unfortunate because those people at that shop probably lost a lot on that deal whereas they were probably in line to do pretty well.



cheezyridr said:


> you gotta wonder why this isn't an issue with our governments. it should be


You gotta wonder why our governments even began trading with them at all with the human rights violations and so on. If they want to have an industrial revolution then so be it - make your goods for your own population but the USA and Canada should never have begun taking cheap goods from there. Now they know what they have (rare earths, manufacturing capability, manpower up the ying yang, etc). We are in deep sheezie.


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## Latiator (Jul 18, 2007)

smorgdonkey said:


> You gotta wonder why our governments even began trading with them at all with the human rights violations and so on. If they want to have an industrial revolution then so be it - make your goods for your own population but the USA and Canada should never have begun taking cheap goods from there. Now they know what they have (rare earths, manufacturing capability, manpower up the ying yang, etc). We are in deep sheezie.


Wholly agree. However, the business we have with China is a direct reflection of the rampant consumerism that is engulfing our greedy nations (it will come to a boil soon enough, especially in the U.S.). If it weren't for so many people demanding beyond top dollar for their services and cheap products to purchase so they can retain as much money as possible to buy more goods (quantity not quality), we wouldn't be in this position. For the U.S., one of only a few threads holding up their nation is their currency being the world currency by which all others are measured. If another nation were to assume this responsibility you can bet you'll see a massive change throughout the world, particularly in the North Western nations.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

J S Moore said:


> Yes. You're saying two different things there. There's a difference between the factory and the land it sits on. The Chinese government is keeping a tight rein on the conversion to a free market but private ownership is starting to rise.


Yeah...I`m almost sure I know what I was saying, good thing there are people who feel the need tell me what I want to say. I was inferring that if they don`t own the land then they do not own it wholly, just partially. Same thing happens in Japan, sometimes landowners lease a plot to somebody who builds on it, I know that the landowner can, and it has happened, decide to not renew a lease...not sure what happens in those cases but not unusual.


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

i'm also surprised to hear about folks being scammed buying Gibson's copy at Gibson's price.

A copy has full size generic or mini-pots with 10 cents green caps, generic p.u., plastic nut, bridge, trust rod, etc.

Nothing wrong with these mind you as they usually work well.

But hey, after a good set-up, maybe changing the tuning keys (if the stock one are duds), they will scream!

And when the thrifty guitarman looks at himself in the mirror with that sparkling Lester strapped on (or post a pic on his local forum)...duder has a sense of pride, and, has money left for strings.

Furthermore, said duder will be able to resell his axe for 6 bills to his buddy, once the craving for a different taste has him spent sleepeless night.

Shanghai and Beijing have their annual music shows, similar to NAMM, and they are picking up more and more customer each year.

Fender, Gibson, Gretsch and Rickenbacker have the notoriety of having been at the root of Rock and Roll and they command the price.

But, guitardom is a luxury item, and, proleterians are not all keen on dropping 2-3 grand on a guitar.


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

Update...

my Chinese friend told me that seller Guitar Factory at DHGATE had been popped...

it seems now that you'll be hard press to find your Hummingbird, J-160, J-200, Dove, etc on DHGATE today...i've just checked and they have removed them from the site.

I had notice a 20%+ price hike lately...

I know it is no sweat for you guys to own 6000$ pedal board, 6 amps and walls of American Made Classics,

but i feel bad for the guitar player in countries not as rich as Canada...


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## Lurchin (Jan 13, 2012)

ok , gonna throw my 2 cents in here. 

It pretty sad that we have come to this , there are Chinese copies everywhere these days , varying degrees of precision but for the most part expect to be to doing some work on it if you grab one . As easy as it is to bash the Chinese for these copies , the big manufacturers (Gibson,Fender,Ibanez) are just as much to blame for this dilemma . Let's take Ibanez for an example , you can buy a prestige for a couple grand or you can grab from the lower end for a couple hundred . Pretty much same guitar except for a couple letters on the headstock , Gibson and Fender , how long did they think they could corner the market with those prices . Unrealistic values/prices upset people and they will find alternatives and dont care where they come from . Even thought it's wrong , the Chinese have just taken an opportunity and tried to capitalize on it , how American is that . That way of thinking is running amok all over this planet these days , not just in China . Im in no way supporting what China is doing but can you blame them . You would figure with all these copies flying around that the big manufactures would re consider their inflated pricing , but of course not . A guitar is what you make it , you dont play the headstock/brand name , so is it really that big of a deal what the headstock says . There has to be a point with today's musician where they get there ego head out of their rear end and forget about image and start to worry about where his fingers are and how to physically make it a more enjoyable experience . I'll leave it at that .


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

tubetwang said:


> Update...
> 
> my Chinese friend told me that seller Guitar Factory at DHGATE had been popped...
> 
> ...


I wish I fit in that category


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Latiator said:


> Wholly agree. However, the business we have with China is a direct reflection of the rampant consumerism that is engulfing our greedy nations (it will come to a boil soon enough, especially in the U.S.). If it weren't for so many people demanding beyond top dollar for their services and cheap products to purchase so they can retain as much money as possible to buy more goods (quantity not quality), we wouldn't be in this position. For the U.S., one of only a few threads holding up their nation is their currency being the world currency by which all others are measured. If another nation were to assume this responsibility you can bet you'll see a massive change throughout the world, particularly in the North Western nations.


I agree man...we've been spinning in the bowl slowly for a while and the speed is picking up!



GuitarsCanada said:


> I wish I fit in that category


Me too. I will renew my membership as soon as I clear a few things up (so, he who has to wait for the right time for $20 to be expendable doesn't have a $6000 pedal board - that is safe to assume).


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

Diablo said:


> Which Gibson branded guitars are made offshore? I thought gibsons were MIU, epis, melody maker etc were their offshore brands?


Gibsons are Made in the USA By Gibson ... this thread is about counterfeit chinese junk with replica logos and false MADE IN THE US stampings on the back of the headstock...

The chinese stuff only looks ok in photographs ... the pickups are terrible, the screws and parts are all metric knock offs ... the finish is a slick plastic armour shell and so on ... 

Personally I don't care what Gibson charges for their guitars ... they built up the brand and business to a point where demand supports their price point 
I've never lost money on a Gibson and always sold any I didn't need anymore, quickly. The copies knock offs and off brand guitar don't provide the same ownership experience and don't hold their value the way a quailty guitar does. 

When you factor your evenual resale return into the Gibson guitar your investment is less than most other choices...
the only catch is you have to front more cash to get the guitar 

p


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

parkhead said:


> Gibsons are Made in the USA By Gibson ... this thread is about counterfeit chinese junk with replica logos and false MADE IN THE US stampings on the back of the headstock...
> 
> The chinese stuff only looks ok in photographs ... the pickups are terrible, the screws and parts are all metric knock offs ... the finish is a slick plastic armour shell and so on ...
> 
> ...


I have to respecfully disagree here...

There is nothing wrong with the pick-ups...they are pick-ups. I never understood why one would change them...

The screws are good screws.

In my experience the only parts that (sometime) need an upgrade are the tuners.

The Poly finish does look like a plastic shell, but, it is easy enough to tone it down to a dull finish.

The quality control is usually lacking...but a d.i.y. duder will be happy to go over it.

Besides, shipping a guitar from China...ANY GUITAR...will need a set up once home.

Selling a new Gibson on the used market is usually a loosing proposition.

Not the case for the Chinese...huh...er...version.

I'm not advocate the purchase of copies here.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

tubetwang said:


> I have to respecfully disagree here...
> 
> There is nothing wrong with the pick-ups...they are pick-ups. I never understood why one would change them...


If I was unfortunate enough to have one of those things and decided that I had to keep it (and was going to play it) I'd change the pickups so that it sounded better.

That's damn simple.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i don't understand why people like to perpetrate the myth of buying a guitar as an investment. ask any stockbroker and he'll tell you, it's a terrible investment. everyone saw how popular hardly davidison motorcycles were for a while there. 
everyone bought the over priced bikes by the bushel, telling everyone how smart they were because the resale vale was insanely high. except, for most people, it didn't work out that way. the fad faded some, and tons of cpas, accountants and lawyers, and joe contractor, all decided to sell their low mileage driveway ornaments, and took a big hit just like anything else. i sold 3 japanese bikes, and got higher resale for them (percentage-wise) than most of the hardlys i saw in the classifieds. i watched a few of my buddies gleefully snap up trailer queens that were low mileage, excellent condish, for cheap. guitars aren't much different. watch and see. another year of this economy and anyone selling high end guitars will be dramatically lowering prices. asian brands are improving quality by leaps and bounds. the big name guitars are doing nothing new that's all that interesting. everyday i see more people complaining of spotty quality. the price they currently enjoy is due entirely to hype and marketing. sooner or later, that house of cards is gonna fall. i've seen it in too many other areas. people call it hatin', but it is what it is, and what it is, is the truth.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

smorgdonkey said:


> If I was unfortunate enough to have one of those things and decided that I had to keep it (and was going to play it) I'd change the pickups so that it sounded better.
> 
> That's damn simple.


And they were replacements for the replacements. Image what the originals sounded like.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

> i don't understand why people like to perpetrate the myth of buying a guitar as an investment.


Depends when you bought. A roomfull if 50's and 60s guitars bought in the early 70's would give return


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I have a guitar that says 'Raid in China' on it.


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> Depends when you bought. A roomfull if 50's and 60s guitars bought in the early 70's would give return


We are talking new guitars here but.

See how much you get for that brand new 5000$ Gibby on Craigslist...

One's 389$ China Special will fetch you six bills after you've told the buyer that it is a clone...:banana:and duder will be happy to camp with it...


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

tubetwang said:


> One's 389$ China Special will fetch you six bills after you've told the buyer that it is a clone...:banana:and duder will be happy to camp with it...


HAHA!! Nobody that I've ever met will give someone six bills for one - actually, tell me where all of those idiots are and I'll hook up deals for them.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> Depends when you bought. A roomfull if 50's and 60s guitars bought in the early 70's would give return


Maybe. But how much return? Plenty of bad guitars were made in the 60s and 70s, for example. Cheap Asian clones with lousy wood and inferior electronics. Some of them look pretty cool in a retro-geeky way, but their book value is questionable. Different story if it's a room full of Gibsons, Fenders or Rickenbackers.


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

smorgdonkey said:


> HAHA!! Nobody that I've ever met will give someone six bills for one - actually, tell me where all of those idiots are and I'll hook up deals for them.


The Chinese copy are the most sold guitars in the world! HUGE FACTORY in ANSHAN, SHENYANG, QINGDAO etc.

Do you see any on the used market? 

Nope!

Don't hold your breath...

No need to advertise...

Food for though.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

tubetwang said:


> The Chinese copy are the most sold guitars in the world! HUGE FACTORY in ANSHAN, SHENYANG, QINGDAO etc.
> 
> Do you see any on the used market?
> 
> ...


What are you even talking about? First you say people would be happy to give you $600 for a counterfeit and then you say that there aren't any for sale used. I think you have that dancing banana in your head. There are people EVERYWHERE who are very unhappy with their Chinese counterfeits and one reason that they don't show up on the used market is that people flag them immediately as counterfeits so they are taken off the source (IE eBay or kijiji, etc.). The ones that IO played were barely worth the LOW price that they sell for.


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

Well, i do not want to get into a pissing contest here...

I have over 40 guitars, and 9 of those are Chinese.

I get the same bogus argument from folks who believe that tube amp clones are duds.

I have been building my own amps starting in 2000...Trainwreck Liverpool and Express, Vox AC4-AC15-AC30, 18Watts, Matchless Spitfire, Fender Tweed (Princeton + Deluxe) and BlackFace Princeton Reverb.

We've had some amp shout out here and i was not shamed.

Check this 238$ guitar review...www.twangsters.blogspot.com/2012/01/chinese-strat-test.html


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

tubetwang said:


> I have over 40 guitars, and 9 of those are Chinese.


Excellent...that's wonderful for you. You can have your 9 Chinese guitars - if you bought clones from the maker I have zero respect for you. I'm not saying that because I think that you care what I think of you. I'm just saying it because counterfeiting is stealing, buying counterfeit is supporting thieves. You've obviously already decided that you can live with that (if you have purchased counterfeits from the makers).



tubetwang said:


> Check this 238$ guitar review...www.twangsters.blogspot.com/2012/01/chinese-strat-test.html


Wow...great review.3dgrw


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

smorgdonkey said:


> Wow...great review.3dgrw


Chinese Replica Fender Strat Demo


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## Lurchin (Jan 13, 2012)

Guitar101 said:


> Chinese Replica Fender Strat Demo


 sigiifa Thats a demo of what a Pod sounds like , anything and I mean anything can sound great through a digital processor at low volume . Just add a bit of chorus and everything is good , right ?


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

I've agreed from the start that buying a copy is moraly wrong!

It is simply not true that ALL Chinese, Indonesian, Vietnamese and Japanese guitar copies are junk!

This is what the big 3 would have you believe. 

Building a guitar is not rocket science...A minimum wage trained Chinese worker in Qingdao, China, is as capable as a minimum wage trained Latino worker in Corona, California!


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Lurchin said:


> sigiifa Thats a demo of what a Pod sounds like , anything and I mean anything can sound great through a digital processor at low volume . Just add a bit of chorus and everything is good , right ?


Yes, good point and we really don't know what if anything has been done to that particular guitar to improve it.


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

Lurchin said:


> sigiifa Thats a demo of what a Pod sounds like , anything and I mean anything can sound great through a digital processor at low volume . Just add a bit of chorus and everything is good , right ?


Playability is what we are concerned here...

Is it playable? Yup!

Folks are also concerned about looks...

Does it have the looks? Yup!

Price is a major concern for the regular player...

Is it priced right at 236$ to your door? Yup!

Case closed!

PS don't worry about the Pod thing...it will deliver with any good amp or direct...

Again, it is immoral and against the law to purchase one of those...


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## Lurchin (Jan 13, 2012)

tubetwang said:


> Building a guitar is not rocket science


agree totally , it is an art to building and that is one of the main problems with these things , any monkey can run a cnc lathe and do the cuts , but it's artistry that finishes the product and any Chinese copy Ive come across has lacked obvious proper finishing .


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

Guitar101 said:


> Yes, good point and we really don't know what if anything has been done to that particular guitar to improve it.


nutin.

cheap plastic nut, cheap poly, cheap tuners, cheap Belcat Korean ceramic pups, cheap bridge and small block, cheap generic mini-pots...yeah same as the one in your pedals...what?... they work...don't they?


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

Lurchin said:


> agree totally , it is an art to building and that is one of the main problems with these things , any monkey can run a cnc lathe and do the cuts , but it's artistry that finishes the product and any Chinese copy Ive come across has lacked obvious proper finishing .


you'll want a set-up on any new purchase anyway...clone or not


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## Lurchin (Jan 13, 2012)

ya but for the quality of these things you might as well go to XS Cargo and buy a First Act guitar , playability is the same as is the quality . i agree a set up is in order for a new guitar to the players style of playing , but that should not involve , leveling the frets and smoothing fret edge , thats just crap quality . Im in the same 40+ with my collection , but I only have one Chinese copy , and believe me it needed major work to even bring it close to its original counterpart . Dirt cheap is the only reason you grab one . I only grabbed mine used of a guy because I wasnt paying $3000 for the original . I've put more $ into it than Ive paid for it . I really wont be playing it too much , its more just eye candy . If you want eye candy that about all they are good for , this stuff wears out real fast .


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Lurchin said:


> ya but for the quality of these things you might as well go to XS Cargo and buy a First Act guitar , playability is the same as is the quality . i agree a set up is in order for a new guitar to the players style of playing , but that should not involve , leveling the frets and smoothing fret edge , thats just crap quality . Im in the same 40+ with my collection , but I only have one Chinese copy , and believe me it needed major work to even bring it close to its original counterpart . Dirt cheap is the only reason you grab one . I only grabbed mine used of a guy because I wasnt paying $3000 for the original . I've put more $ into it than Ive paid for it . I really wont be playing it too much , its more just eye candy . If you want eye candy that about all they are good for , this stuff wears out real fast .


I'm with you man (though less than 40...less than 25 now even - and NO CHINESE guitars).



tubetwang said:


> This is what the big 3 would have you believe.


I don't listen to the 'big three' so I have no idea what they would 'have me believe'. I know one thing, they can't get rosewood without jumping through all sorts of hoops and they have environmental and trade restrictions to meet. I'm pretty sure that they have insurance to protect workers and so on too which none of those employees in China have because they don't even have their personal freedom.


tubetwang said:


> Building a guitar is not rocket science...A minimum wage trained Chinese worker in Qingdao, China, is as capable as a minimum wage trained Latino worker in Corona, California!


The Latino worker in Corona can quit and go do something else. The Chinese worker is a slave.


tubetwang said:


> Again, it is immoral and against the law to purchase one of those...


So, where did you get yours? How are you so informed on what it costs right to your door?


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Yep, on that Strat demo, in the info, the guy said that he didn't change anything.

This discussion is about Chinese guitars. Nobody that I noticed mentioned guitars from anywhere else.
I have an Indo guitar that pretty nice, btw. It's also from one of the BIG three, it's a Fender. Who's the third one anyway?
This guitar needs the fret ends dressed though, something that I haven't encountered on any North American guitar that I've bought.

I have several MIJ guitars, all freaking awesome. 

The few MIA guitars that I've bought new were ready to go in the shop.
Maybe a minor tweak of the intonation after it's brought home and settled in after a while, but nothing serious at all.


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## hummingway (Aug 4, 2011)

Guitar101 said:


> Chinese Replica Fender Strat Demo


Here's the problem. I think it sounds like shit in the demo, brittle, thin and cold, but I've known guitar players who could make a good guitar sound bad and others who could make a lousy guitar sound good. It really says nothing to me about the guitar, nor does someone saying it plays well for the same reason.


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

sulphur said:


> Yep, on that Strat demo, in the info, the guy said that he didn't change anything.
> 
> This discussion is about Chinese guitars. Nobody that I noticed mentioned guitars from anywhere else.
> I have an Indo guitar that pretty nice, btw. It's also from one of the BIG three, it's a Fender. Who's the third one anyway?
> ...


Fret end dress is no issue for me...as i do my own luthier's work...no biggie!


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## Lurchin (Jan 13, 2012)

I do all my own work as well , but that is not something the consumer should have to do with a new guitar , IMO incomplete and unacceptable , its like buying a new car but they dont finish the interior or paint the outside . They whip these out so fast they have no time for quaility control


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Lurchin said:


> I do all my own work as well , but that is not something the consumer should have to do with a new guitar , IMO incomplete and unacceptable , its like buying a new car but they dont finish the interior or paint the outside . They whip these out so fast they have no time for quaility control


As long as it looks good in the picture, I'm sure there is no return policy. The neck could snap off in two weeks because they are pumping them out so fast. I have a friend who was talking to an inspector for shipbuilding who was on site in China and the people were spraying the hull of a ship with a coating that is supposed to cure for 24 hours AS IT WAS MOVING to slide into the water off drydock. They had no respirators on and people were standing over them yelling "spray spray". 

No thanks for anything made in China *when I have the choice*. I'll buy the Gibson new for 4 or 5 times the price or I'll buy the Gibson used for 2 times or 3 times the price and feel better about it. If someone has 40 guitars and they feel the need to buy more that were made by slaves, then so be it. That's your choice-remember, it's like you approve of the use of the slavery by consenting to buy the guitar.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

The reason I picked up a fret end file is because of a couple of offshore guitars.
Nothing terrible, well I did buy them, after all. 

I agree that you shouldn't have to mess around post purchase of a guitar,
other than wanting to mod something, I suppose.
That's the premium you pay for in a guitar built on this continent.

Gibson also has their issues at times, seemingly due to quotas/deadlines,
from what I've read on the disgruntled workers.
A lot to do with Henry Js management/micromanagement/mismanagement also.


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## Lurchin (Jan 13, 2012)

Under regular circumstances I would never buy one either , but we've heard this story so many times before . Off of ebay a buddy purchased what he thought was the real deal , when he got it , it turned out to be a fake . Couldnt get his coin back . Heartbroken to keep looking at his loss he sold it to me a very good price . As this was just cheap eye candy for me , I didnt mind another project (this thing was so far off specs in everything). Saves me from farting around with a genuine article .

Good point on the paint above

the paint on these things are so thin and reduced they dont even totally fill the grain , you can see through it in the right light , and has changed color in the 4 months Ive had it . What started as arctic white has turned to cream .


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

smorgdonkey said:


> No thanks for anything made in China *when I have the choice*. I'll buy the Gibson new for 4 or 5 times the price or I'll buy the Gibson used for 2 times or 3 times the price and feel better about it. If someone has 40 guitars and they feel the need to buy more that were made by slaves, then so be it. That's your choice-remember, it's like you approve of the use of the slavery by consenting to buy the guitar.


so then you have no ipod then? no iphone? where was your cell phone made, do you know? what kinda computer you typin on? where do you buy your t shirts, socks and undies? you've got plenty of chinese goods, it's almost impossible not to buy them. some of the items you buy in the grocery store come from china.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Lurchin said:


> the paint on these things are so thin and reduced they dont even totally fill the grain , you can see through it in the right light , and has changed color in the 4 months Ive had it . What started as arctic white has turned to cream .


HAha, that's the high lead content. No lickey.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

sulphur said:


> HAha, that's the high lead content. No lickey.



Yes, don`t lick your guitars.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

cheezyridr said:


> so then you have no ipod then? no iphone? where was your cell phone made, do you know? what kinda computer you typin on? where do you buy your t shirts, socks and undies? you've got plenty of chinese goods, it's almost impossible not to buy them. some of the items you buy in the grocery store come from china.


Perhaps you missed the *underlined* part in my post that you quoted(?).

However, since you asked...no iPod, no iPhone, my cellphone is Korean (that's not to say that the next one won't be from China), etc. The point is that I said "when I have the choice". I definitely don't get anything from China in the grocery store, and I'll say it again: I'll buy North American for 3 or 4 times the price if I have to. I have had instances in which I needed something and the only choice was Chinese made. I chose not to buy it. Then I realized that my 'need' was relative. You must do what you can...at least I feel that we all should and I do.


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## Latiator (Jul 18, 2007)

smorgdonkey said:


> I'll buy North American for 3 or 4 times the price if I have to.


Keep in mind here that North America does not just consist of the U.S. and Canada but about 21 other countries. Not all of which share the same labour relations that the two aforementioned countries do. Also, there are MANY countries throughout the world that produce very well made guitars (and other products for that matter) - arguably better than American or Canadian at times. Such as Japan, Germany, England, Ireland, etc. Each feature a strong, loyal, well compensated workforce with a customer relations focus, superb quality and good return policy. With that in mind however, none will be "cheap" in price which is one of the topics of the "Chinese labour" discussion. You get what you pay for folks and you reap what you sow. 
For those who don't like the copying aspect of Chinese guitars only, not all are copies. Jarrell guitars for instance are built in China by handpicked "skilled" Chinese luthiers with a unique design. Jarrell guitars are based out of Barrie, ON and L.A. U.S.A. The guitars are actually quite nice - but not cheap with an asking price of around $1100 at times. I've strummed and picked one unplugged and they're quite well assembled but alas, I could not pull myself to purchasing one for the simple fact that I believe in fair labour and value retention.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Latiator said:


> you reap what you sow.


That's the biggest part of what I get wrapped-up in with this sort of topic.


Latiator said:


> For those who don't like the copying aspect of Chinese guitars only, not all are copies. Jarrell guitars for instance are built in China by handpicked "skilled" Chinese luthiers with a unique design. Jarrell guitars are based out of Barrie, ON and L.A. U.S.A. The guitars are actually quite nice - but not cheap with an asking price of around $1100 at times. I've strummed and picked one unplugged and they're quite well assembled but alas, I could not pull myself to purchasing one for the simple fact that I believe in fair labour and value retention.


I think the Suhr Rasmus line is very similar to the one that you are discussing in your post.


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## Latiator (Jul 18, 2007)

smorgdonkey said:


> That's the biggest part of what I get wrapped-up in with this sort of topic.


It's certainly easy to do man, I understand. 



smorgdonkey said:


> think the Suhr Rasmus line is very similar to the one that you are discussing in your post.


I was not aware of this line, an interesting comparison. It was not specified to me that Jarrell guitars were built in China but assembled in the U.S. like Suhr eludes to which I discovered upon doing some digging. To my knowledge, all of the assembly is in China with Jarrells, I could be wrong though.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

I know this is about China bootlegs but I would not buy any China guitar. Several times I have picked up relatively expensive china guitars and quickly hung it back up when I see their sticker. They got far to many of our jobs now and I won't support their economy if I can help it.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

deadear said:


> I know this is about China bootlegs but I would not buy any China guitar. Several times I have picked up relatively expensive china guitars and quickly hung it back up when I see their sticker. They got far to many of our jobs now and I won't support their economy if I can help it.


I like that attitude - do what you can when you have a choice!


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

deadear said:


> I know this is about China bootlegs but I would not buy any China guitar. Several times I have picked up relatively expensive china guitars and quickly hung it back up when I see their sticker. They got far to many of our jobs now and I won't support their economy if I can help it.


Good luck with that backwards ass thinking. It's not like they automatically take away jobs here because you buy things from over there. 
They said the same thing about Japan a few years back.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

TDeneka said:


> Good luck with that backwards ass thinking. It's not like they automatically take away jobs here because you buy things from over there.
> They said the same thing about Japan a few years back.


Sorry if I offended your ancestory. Ya right


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

TDeneka said:


> Good luck with that backwards ass thinking. It's not like they automatically take away jobs here because you buy things from over there.
> They said the same thing about Japan a few years back.


right!

price are going up on Chinese guitars and i can see production eventually move to countries like Vietnam where they allready build fantastic high end guitars.

i have a handmade Viet Koa guitar here that would give a J200 a hard time keeping up.

Asia has a long tradition of crafting fine acoustic instrument 

and when you are lucky enough to find a master builder you are in custom shop heaven


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

deadear said:


> Sorry if I offended your ancestory. Ya right


? 
i'm from eastern europe brah


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

my 2 cents

APPLE pays 6 dollars per IPAD unit to a chineese factory and then sells that unit
for hundreds of dollars to millions of folks who line up and are glad to pay the price.

plenty of shameless blame to go around in this equation.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

GTmaker said:


> my 2 cents
> 
> APPLE pays 6 dollars per IPAD unit to a chineese factory and then sells that unit
> for hundreds of dollars to millions of folks who line up and are glad to pay the price.
> ...


funny you should mention that. just a week or so ago, 300 employees went to the roof, so they could jump off and die, in protest of the conditions in that factory. when they began doing that a few years ago, the factory's solution was to put a net around the building, instead of addressing the problems that caused the people to want to kill themselves. where was the great steve jobs when all that was going on? somewhere in his billionare life, not giving a crap. i was banned from tgp just this evening, because i mentioned that in a thread where someone posted pics of him wasting from disease.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

Latiator said:


> Keep in mind here that North America does not just consist of the U.S. and Canada but about 21 other countries. .


 
Has geography changed that much since I was in grade school? I was taught North America was Canada, the United States and Mexico...between North America and South America was Central America...so, has the map of those areas been redrawn and nobody told me?


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

TDeneka said:


> They said the same thing about Japan a few years back.


 
One thing I have come to realize about Japan since getting here is, yes they exported a lot of cheap, not very well made junk for a long time when I was a kid, but that was certainly not all they were producing...the stuff they made for the domestic market...in terms of guitars...was far superior to what was exported, to Canada at least. I have some old MIJ acoustic nylon string guitars that were built well over 50 and 60 years old and I still play em, so that alone should be an indication of their quality. Not sure if the same can be said of China...if their domestic goods are any better than much of what gets exported...never been to China. And in the past decade or more, many of those Japanese jobs have disappeared to other Asian countries with cheaper labor, those life long job opportunities that generations past had enjoyed are extremely rare these days, folks are working for temporary 3 month, 6 month or yearly contracts with very little job security. Unions are absolutely useless here, they have zero power and do not protect their members, the relationship between unions and company management is much too polite, in fact I have no ides why they exist at all. The bubble years did something to the Japanese...it made them very complacent, I`ve seen video on TV here from the `60s, when Japanese students were literally battling the police in Tokyo streets...now, they just say...it can`t be helped...I can`t see an Arab Spring type thing happen here, hard to understand why but the Japanese have become meek and very soft, almost willing to believe everything they are told by leaders...and that applies to corporations as well....recently there was a financial scandal in a huge pulp and paper family owned corporation where policy was...no staff can refuse any request by the controlling family so what happened was, one of the sons gambled away billion of dollars...not yen but dollars...he evidently demanded the finance department of his company...and others... to deposit huge sums into his personal bank account which he then spent in casinos in Macao and Vegas...it was unsustainable and came crashing down around his head, the matter will be in Japanese courts, and that plus the Olympus scandal is, I believe, just the tip of the iceberg...that british executive who blew the whistle at Olympus was called naive by a Japanese man in an interview on BBC world news...and I took that to mean naive because he spoke about the cover up of billions of dollars in losses...a good Japanese would never have done that...last point...the British whistle blower has received no support from Japanese share holders who should be, one would think, grateful to find out about the shady book keeping but no, he was a gaijin who rocked the boat who since has said he will no longer seek reinstatement as CEO...gee...really? Did he think anybody here would want him back? I sure didn`t. Though the story broke in September of last year, the gov`t officials in suits "raided" the Olympus offices a couple of weeks ago, I hope they had enough time to shred all the relevant documents and get their stories straight.
This country is interesting...it is both ultra modern in terms of architecture, technology and manufacturing...but still feudal in terms of mind set.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

They were right when they said that about Japan, and when Japan caught up socially and improved quality they just moved to the next country and Korea became the place and now that Korea advanced it has become China and other places.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

China is the next supper power...what ever we like it or not. Producing TONS of SHIT for export...making trillions of $$$, buying land ALL over the world, building an military force that is, as of early 2011, 5 times more powerful then the US military alone. 

If they decide to go Bang Bang..right now china is unstoppable. the USA as on average 250 000 foot soldier, including the reserves. CHina, has around 15 million on last count, close to 20 air carrier ready for battle. Sorry..but you don't buy a baseball bat unless 2 things...to play ball..or to kick some ass..and i don't think the chiness wanna play ball..


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

And the bat will be MIC anyways.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

sulphur said:


> And the bat will be MIC anyways.


Yeah...but one thing the Chiness are making good use of their tons of boat load of money is making top of the line military stuff..


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

al3d said:


> China is the next supper power...what ever we like it or not. Producing TONS of SHIT for export...making trillions of $$$, buying land ALL over the world, building an military force that is, as of early 2011, 5 times more powerful then the US military alone.
> 
> If they decide to go Bang Bang..right now china is unstoppable. the USA as on average 250 000 foot soldier, including the reserves. CHina, has around 15 million on last count, close to 20 air carrier ready for battle. Sorry..but you don't buy a baseball bat unless 2 things...to play ball..or to kick some ass..and i don't think the chiness wanna play ball..


The Chinese are in Capitalist Mode...if i may say so myself...

They want to sell...they want to make money...just like you and me...

They wanna sell guitars and they do.

When SunStar opened their factory in 1993, they sold 1 Million guitars in that year alone...and that is just one of the many many companies building guitars in China.

They have been banged up pretty bad by the Japanese invasion in the 30's...why not get the fire power...they can afford it...would'nt you?


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

al3d said:


> China is the next supper power...what ever we like it or not.


I do like Chinese suppers. But only when they're authentic.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

smorgdonkey said:


> I have a friend who was talking to an inspector for shipbuilding who was on site in China and the people were spraying the hull of a ship with a coating that is supposed to cure for 24 hours AS IT WAS MOVING to slide into the water off drydock. They had no respirators on and people were standing over them yelling "spray spray".


Another story of Chinese quality...a Canadian inspector was recently there while checking out a manufacturing facility for a South American client. 

He spotted a stack of steel stock that had thin areas which were visible to the naked eye and said to one of the Chinese superiors "that stock is no good, it won't meet the standard". The Chinese guy said "ok" and rushed him along. When walking back past that area he noticed that the stock was gone and could see obvious drag marks so he followed them. He found the steel stock was in another little shop having the thin areas built up with POLYESTER fill like the stuff used auto body work but with metal grindings in it. He gives them a "WTF?!!" and a Chinese superior rushes him out of there. He states that he wants to see the standard for the stock and the Chinese guy says that he'll have it tomorrow. 

The next day the Chinese guy supplies him witht he standard and it has had a large addition on the end (changes allowing for the poor quality stock).

That's the shit that goes on in Chinese manufacturing. Whe it comes down to it, they do not understand quality yet in most products and their focus is on the biggest numbers for the lowest cost. No Chinese guitar that I've ever had my hands on will touch the worst Les Paul Studio that I have had my hands on. Some of them look pretty and sound shitty. I am sure that they will eventually get things right but with all of the people in the world (who don't know what they are talking about) saying "they are just as good after a set-up", perhaps they don't have to.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

al3d said:


> China is the next supper power...what ever we like it or not. Producing TONS of SHIT for export...making trillions of $$$, buying land ALL over the world, building an military force that is, as of early 2011, 5 times more powerful then the US military alone.
> 
> If they decide to go Bang Bang..right now china is unstoppable. the USA as on average 250 000 foot soldier, including the reserves. CHina, has around 15 million on last count, close to 20 air carrier ready for battle. Sorry..but you don't buy a baseball bat unless 2 things...to play ball..or to kick some ass..and i don't think the chiness wanna play ball..


Glad someone else sees this the way it is. Today guitars tomorow the world. Until that happens I really don't want to sleep on one of those sewer grates next winter in downtown Toronto like a lot of Canadians are doing. Stupid Canadian government. They think if a war breaks out they will just flick a switch and start building military machines. Surprise all the manufacturing plants are vaccant or torn down.


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

smorgdonkey said:


> Another story of Chinese quality...a Canadian inspector was recently there while checking out a manufacturing facility for a South American client.
> 
> He spotted a stack of steel stock that had thin areas which were visible to the naked eye and said to one of the Chinese superiors "that stock is no good, it won't meet the standard". The Chinese guy said "ok" and rushed him along. When walking back past that area he noticed that the stock was gone and could see obvious drag marks so he followed them. He found the steel stock was in another little shop having the thin areas built up with POLYESTER fill like the stuff used auto body work but with metal grindings in it. He gives them a "WTF?!!" and a Chinese superior rushes him out of there. He states that he wants to see the standard for the stock and the Chinese guy says that he'll have it tomorrow.
> 
> ...


You are talking through your ass again dude...

You obviously have never been to China...

These things happen anywhere...not just in China.

Get out of Peggy's Cove and check it out for yourself.

I've walked the walk and i've talked the talk!

That is called experience BOY!

You'll get your ass wiped if your green even in Nashville!


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

smorgdonkey said:


> No Chinese guitar that I've ever had my hands on will touch the worst Les Paul Studio that I have had my hands on. Some of them look pretty and sound shitty.


I suppose out your way you don't see too many guitars and therefore based on what's around you you're right, or perhaps you're just talking out your a** as suggested above, because I have a chinois Epi LP that Kills the last two Gibbys I bought (a faded Sg and a white studio LP).


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Wow...seriously!....you've walked the walk!...with words like that..don't care if you walked around the world barefoot...only one thing comes to mind when i read your post..."dumb ass" frankly. what smorgdonkey is saying is actually a fact and a well documented one. This is a forum...people have opinions...it's normal..but you're insutling someone without even knowing who you are instulting. he's putting out a good point...and you're calling him "Boy"....really!..are you an ex member of the KKK clan?!!...jesus.



tubetwang said:


> You are talking through your ass again dude...
> 
> You obviously have never been to China...
> 
> ...


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Jimmy_D said:


> I suppose out your way you don't see too many guitars and therefore based on what's around you you're right, or perhaps you're just talking out your a** as suggested above, because I have a chinois Epi LP that Kills the last two Gibbys I bought (a faded Sg and a white studio LP).


We are talking about the COUNTERFIT stuff here..not the legitimate stuff.....


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

China is an emerging country...they were starving not long ago dude!

Is there polution? Lots!

Is there cheap labor? hunhun!

Are there painters spray painting without mask? Yup!!

Not nice right? Give them a chance...they are as we were 70 years ago.


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

al3d said:


> We are talking about the COUNTERFIT stuff here..not the legitimate stuff.....


So Marshall with your reasonning...the Chinese counterfit guitars are not good BUT the Chinese Gibson are great...

I say naïve...if you can build a guitar in your basement, a Chinese can build as well...

This racist thinking that the Chinese can only build mickeymouse jive is bullshit! 

When they build something cheap it was mean't as being cheap.

Pay them well and they will build better than Gibby and it will not cost 5 grand.

And yes it will be choice primo 3 years cured wood


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Remember to stay on topic, and not attack the posters, otherwise this thread goes down...........


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

U know..i think you really need to check what the thread title is before posting and looking like a..well..you know what..we are talking COUNTERFIT..jesus...i've tried at least 2 douzen of those counterfit..and ALL were TOTAL POS...NOTHING of what you say or try to push will change that fact.



tubetwang said:


> So Marshall with your reasonning...the Chinese counterfit guitars are not good BUT the Chinese Gibson are great...
> 
> I say naïve...if you can build a guitar in your basement, a Chinese can build as well...
> 
> ...


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

tubetwang said:


> You are talking through your ass again dude...
> 
> You obviously have never been to China...
> 
> ...


Great...nice maturity level. If I ran this board, you'd be perma banned right now...not just based upon that but based on your prior crap too. With the questions that I put to you and you never responded to one yet you respond like that to my post? That's pathetic. I wish we were next door neighbours.



Jimmy_D said:


> I suppose out your way you don't see too many guitars and therefore based on what's around you you're right, or perhaps you're just talking out your a** as suggested above, because I have a chinois Epi LP that Kills the last two Gibbys I bought (a faded Sg and a white studio LP).


So, Jimmy_D...since your reply actually has some legitimate concerns, in that someone living in a smaller area may not have seen 'too many guitars', I'll tell you a bit about my experience:

-I have lived in 4 provinces including living in Calgary for 9 years from 1998-2007
-have owned 67 guitars (including 2 basses), I have seen thousands of guitars and played hundreds. I still own 20 something guitars
-I have been in the building studio of and in candid conversation with a luthier who makes instruments that start at $6000 & has a waiting list that is YEARS long 
-I have had casual conversation with some of the best techs in the country and I have done set ups for musicians of all levels

So, if you were being genuine in the 'out your way' thing then that's some info for you.
If you were taking a jab at a small area just because you disagree with my opinion then FU.


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

Sad the xenophobic sense of superiority in this thread by some posters.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

This one appears to have taken the same course as the Costa Concordia


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> This one appears to have taken the same course as the Costa Concordia


Did I get sʞ00l3d in that thread too and called 'BOY'?


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Two women friends had gone out for a Girls Night Out, and had been decidedly over-enthusiastic on the cocktails. Incredibly drunk and walking home they suddenly realized they both needed to pee. They were very near a graveyard and one of them suggested they do their business behind a headstone or something. The first woman had nothing to wipe with so she took off her panties, used them and threw them away. Her friend however was wearing an expensive underwear set and didn't want to ruin hers, but was lucky enough to salvage a large ribbon from a wreath that was on a grave and proceeded to wipe herself with it. After finishing, they made their way home.

The next day the first woman's husband phones the other husband and said, "These damn girls nights out have got to stop. My wife came home last night without her panties." "That's nothing," said the other. "Mine came back with a sympathy card stuck between the cheeks of her butt that said, 'From all of us at the Fire Station, Well never forget you!'


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

tubetwang said:


> So Marshall with your reasonning...the Chinese counterfit guitars are not good BUT the Chinese Gibson are great...
> 
> I say naïve...if you can build a guitar in your basement, a Chinese can build as well...
> 
> ...


I think you don't Understand my original point 

Gibsons are not made in china 

they are made in Nashville, Memphis and Bozeman Montana 

Epiphones are made all over the place, but those are Epiphone & Not Gibson

(The Chinese make all kinds of good stuff like this MAC i'm typing on ....)

the only Gibson Labled Guitars coming out of China are not authorized, ie they are FAKES 

when buying a fake, on the net, you take your chances since no one will stand behind the product after the 

sale, in fact the point of the fake is the sale and nothing else, separating you from your dough 

since you are buying a chinese guitar with an UN-AUTHORIZED GIBSON logo you are only doing so to impress 

less knowledgeable friends, and impressionable children ... since only yourself and these folks are fooled by the knock off 


when you are buying a Fake Gibson instead of a "sechuan trading company" les paul you are making a statement about how 

impressed you are with the real brand & that you really want others to think you have one .... 

LIKE DRIVING A FIERO WITH A FERRARI BODY KIT & EMBLEM.... 


Bottom line the only person impressed with your "skillful shopping savvy is yourself" 

fake Gibsons are really about self DECEPTION AND POOR SELF ESTEEM just as fake Gucci bags and fake Rolexs are for the fashion crowd 

to those with a healthy self image they are an entertaining $300 internet buy ... the problems set in when people start trying to tell us that their $300 

knock off is JUST AS GOOD or CLEARLY BETTER than GIBSON XYZ ... lets call that what it is "self deceptive Bull FECES" 

YOU may now take sides, indicating weather or not you feel you can afford a GIBSON 

(this post was not meant to offend any Douchbag Lawyers who wear FAKE rolexes ) 

bottom Line if you can't afford a Gibson thats cool, buy a squire, a yamaha, a washburn or an epiphone ... 

It's not about what you play its about HOW you play it! 




p


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

smorgdonkey said:


> Great...nice maturity level. If I ran this board, you'd be perma banned right now...not just based upon that but based on your prior crap too. With the questions that I put to you and you never responded to one yet you respond like that to my post? That's pathetic. I wish we were next door neighbours.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know, this is pathetic, sorry but I thought you were talking chinese guitars in general, I don't care where you live now or whenever, I just suggested it as a reason you might not have seen too many guitars, apparently you have, good for you.

So to make it clear, if you're talking fakes, I probably agree, otherwise I don't agree, and if you don't like that perhaps you could fornicate yourself.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)




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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Not intended for anyone, just thought it was a cool picture.

Lets try to be nice


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

i can't play a Gucci bag or a Diamond Rolex.

I will play a cheap Chinese Plywood Danalectro, but.

Gucci bag, Diamond Rolex, Expansive Lester and Corksniffers...


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

tubetwang said:


> i'm told there was a raid this week in China.
> 
> Many Gibson seized!
> 
> ...


 Any how back to the original topic. Do you really think the Chineese government officials are not aware of these companys making knock offs which will eventually hurt the original companys (Gibson) business. Don't forget China has very strict law enforcment. All these knock offs are produced there and have been for many years with no regard for the company that owns the rights. (guitars,watches,clothing etc.) Just don't buy the junk.


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

ho they know all right...

they profit from it big time...


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

*I can tell you the Chinese aren't responsible for this...*


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

So the scandals about the Japanese architects who cut corners on building they made by reducing the number of steel reinforcement rods in the concrete didn`t make it to the overseas news a few years ago? In a country that is more quake prone than probably any other on the planet.
Families who purchased the condos received nothing from the gov`t but were forced to move out...too unsafe and they had to find other places to live while paying for the original mortgage on the condos they can`t live in anymore. The company who made the buildings declared bankruptcy and that was that.

Or the steel manufacturer who fudged their test results on steel that was used in constructing bridges in Japan? 

Money has become the primes motivation in Japan it isn`t just the Chinese, there has been scandal after scandal in Japan over the past decade or more, all kinds of em...guess they don`t get reported outside Japan.

I read recently that China was just now testing their very first aircraft carrier...they don`t have 20 of them...they may have plans to build 20 of them however. Chinese have the numbers but the Americans build weapons of much greater quality. No doubt the Chinese gov`t is causing a lot of worry in this neighborhood...getting bolder, and almost thumbing their noses at the neighbors...this economic power they`ve achieved has really gone to their heads. 
Did you get that part about the 20 Chinese aircraft carriers from Wikipedia? There`s a reliable source eh.


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## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

I always thought the '88 Fiero GT 2.8L was kind of cool.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

sneakypete said:


> So the scandals about the Japanese architects who cut corners on building they made by reducing the number of steel reinforcement rods in the concrete didn`t make it to the overseas news a few years ago? In a country that is more quake prone than probably any other on the planet.
> Families who purchased the condos received nothing from the gov`t but were forced to move out...too unsafe and they had to find other places to live while paying for the original mortgage on the condos they can`t live in anymore. The company who made the buildings declared bankruptcy and that was that.
> 
> Or the steel manufacturer who fudged their test results on steel that was used in constructing bridges in Japan?
> ...


They take shortcuts in EVERYTHING that they make...it seems that some people just can't tell the difference.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

sneakypete said:


> So the scandals about the Japanese architects who cut corners on building they made by reducing the number of steel reinforcement rods in the concrete didn`t make it to the overseas news a few years ago? In a country that is more quake prone than probably any other on the planet.
> Families who purchased the condos received nothing from the gov`t but were forced to move out...too unsafe and they had to find other places to live while paying for the original mortgage on the condos they can`t live in anymore. The company who made the buildings declared bankruptcy and that was that.
> 
> Or the steel manufacturer who fudged their test results on steel that was used in constructing bridges in Japan?
> ...


Actually..i got the info recently from a US news channel...they had satelitte images of a freaking large dry dock complexe. might have one ready..but 20 in total are been built. As for the US building better weapons..i guess you don't follow to much on that stuff ..LOL...the US stopped building quality in the 50's.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

al3d said:


> i guess you don't follow to much on that stuff ..LOL...the US stopped building quality in the 50's.



Guess thats why so many other countries, including Canada, buy US made weapons systems and not Chinese? Not sure you should be commenting on what I follow considering that last statement of yours.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

sneakypete said:


> Guess thats why so many other countries, including Canada, buy US made weapons systems and not Chinese? Not sure you should be commenting on what I follow considering that last statement of yours.


Oh here we go..another expert on everything...LOL..love those aguments..LOL. so you really think we only buy US made weapons?..


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

al3d said:


> Oh here we go..another expert on everything...LOL..love those aguments..LOL. so you really think we only buy US made weapons?..


Ho no! Don't tell me that our leaders are buying Chinese gun replicas?


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Last time Canada bought any decent military gear this was it.. not counting those retired submarines naturally..


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