# Headphones (again)



## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

I had a thread a while back about headphones.... ended up getting the Sen HD280 by your reccomendation.... what peices of shit, they sounded great, but by god help you if they dont work, i sent mine back for repair TWICE and still they dont work. So screw them, im finally after hours of arguing with the store going to trade them in for these...

Audio-Technica - Microphones, headphones, wireless microphone systems, noise-cancelling headphones & more : ATH-AD700 : Open-air Dynamic Headphones

Audio Technica ATH AD700

So what are the advantages to an open air headphone? does it really make any difference? It would be nice because...

1. When i talk with sealed headphones i dont sound so loud (anoying for online games)

2. supposedly better sound?

BUT My computer has kinda loud fans beside me... will these in anyway block sound... if not i can just turn some fans off its no big deal, just curious.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Depends on your environment and what you're using it for. If there's a lot of ambient noise, they will let it in, so you'll be able to hear it. Also, others in the room will be able to hear what you're listening it as well. Frankly, I think open ear headphones are pretty crummy all around, I've always preferred sealed, especially for recording.

Sorry you had a bad experience with the Senns, but I still stand by me recommendation of them.


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## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

Really? From everyone ive talked too they say open is better because it has better soundstage blablabla... if thats the case then great but im not sure.

I was thinking of getting the Audio Technica ATH M30's as an alt to the AD700's how would both compare to the HD280?


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## TubeStack (Jul 16, 2009)

Open is definitely better, if you can be in the right environment, and have a cool wife/partner.  Not good if you're in a noisy setting or with people around who are bothered by it.

Wider soundstage, greater clarity, more realistic placement of instruments in the stereo field, less "boxy" feeling in general.

Having said that, I haven't owned a pair of high-end closed cans to really compare to the killer open ones I've had. I hear JVC JVC HA-DX1000s are pretty sweet.

I had a pair of Senn HD650s that sounded like god with a good tube headphone amp.


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## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

ok, now heres my major concern, I hear open air headphones have less bass

is this just the poeple the dont know how to use an EQ complaining, or is it really that bad.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I really prefer sealed, over the ear cans. Open airs have less bottom end and let in too much ambient noise. It depends on what you're using them for I suppose. I use mine for live monitoring.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

TubeStack said:


> Open is definitely better, if you can be in the right environment, and have a cool wife/partner.


That's my problem with open ear cans. You need the right environment for them. Whereas sealed cans make any environment their environment by blocking out most of that noise. Same reason I prefer in-ear buds for traveling on transit.

Sure, you might get a bit more clarity and sense of space through open-ear, but is that a function of the headphone, or just your ears hearing the outside world and attributing it to your cans?

The HD-650s are certainly a great headphone, I've never tried them, but have tried the 600s that were the flagship before, and in a room that's quiet, they sound great, but as soon as the ambient noise goes up, it's a different story. 



Pepper_Roni said:


> ok, now heres my major concern, I hear open air headphones have less bass
> 
> is this just the poeple the dont know how to use an EQ complaining, or is it really that bad.


No, it's true, bass response on open-ear doesn't extended as well as it does on sealed cans. Take a look at some of the freq response charts on headphone.com and you'll see how something like the HD650 compares with something like the 280. 

Senn 650









Senn 280









This is pretty traditional of all sealed vs. open designs. Sealed cans will have a stronger bass response all the way down. Also, is it just me, or do the 280s have a much flatter response all the way through the lower mids?


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## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

I guess ill have to try em out at the store.... and see if the soundstage is worth less bass. Thanks for the help guys.

and yes unfortunate the senns are not working for me, they few first days they did work i fell in love with them... but three months later and im tired of dealing with sennheisers policys, forgive and forget i guess.


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## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

OOOO forgot,

if i do get the Audio Technica ATH M30's instead of the AD700's, how do they compare to the senns, ive read little, but the little ive seen says they do compare quite well.


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## Cankin (Jan 9, 2010)

From SoundStage! Getting Technical Back-Issue Article (9/2004)

_With loudspeakers, the goal is a flat frequency response. This means that the speaker reproduces all frequencies at equal volume throughout the audible range of 20 to 20,000Hz -- what goes in comes out the same. But a flat frequency response with headphones is not the ideal.

Headphones are a different acoustic configuration than loudspeakers, and because music is recorded from a speaker-based audio environment, music that may sound great with loudspeakers just doesn’t sound right with headphones. "Furthermore," Hertsens adds, "you are using only one driver to reproduce all frequencies. It’s physically impossible to have that small headphone driver sound flat at 20Hz."

Just because the goal of the frequency-response graph is not flat does not mean there is not an ideal response. Hertsens describes the results of quality headphones.

"The graph should have a hump of about 4dB in the bass region, between 40Hz and 500Hz. In these bass frequencies, you are hearing the loudspeaker through your body as well as your ears. It’s a visceral effect -- there’s a physical punch. Obviously, headphones cannot provide this because the sound is going directly to your ears, so to compensate, the bass is output louder."

"At higher frequencies headphones need to roll off because the drivers are close to the ear. High frequencies are absorbed more in rooms than low frequencies, and the ear compensates because it knows how a room sounds, so you want the headphone to roll off the high frequencies a bit. If there is a flat response, then the headphones will sound too bright. The graph should have a gently sloping flat line from 1kHz to about 5dB down at 20kHz."

Another characteristic typical of headphone frequency-response curves is a lot of peaks and valleys in the high frequencies. Hertsens explains that this is normal and in part due to reflection cancellations in the folds and ridges in the outer part of the ear. Ideally, however, the peaks and valleys of the frequency response should average out to a flat line and should be less than 3kHz in width or the sound will be noticeably colored._



another excellent article about measuring headphone:

Stereophile: Between the Ears: the art and science of measuring headphones


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Cankin said:


> From SoundStage! Getting Technical Back-Issue Article (9/2004)
> 
> _With loudspeakers, the goal is a flat frequency response. This means that the speaker reproduces all frequencies at equal volume throughout the audible range of 20 to 20,000Hz -- what goes in comes out the same. But a flat frequency response with headphones is not the ideal.
> 
> ...


Nice post! Thanks!


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## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

what about AKG, havent heard much about them.

K 141 MK II


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## Cankin (Jan 9, 2010)

I haven't heard 141MKII because I don't like the comfort of over the ear headphones. I had 240MKII and other AKG headphones. I'd say go for 240MKII because they're good for the price. They are semi open but don't leak much(if you're listening at reasonable volume) and can take a bit of abuse since it's pretty well built.


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## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

what about these?

AKG K242HD High Definition Series Around-Ear Semi-Open Headphones - Mocca/Sand Colour - FREE! AKG Tour Jacket - $60 Value - With purchase of $200.00 worth of AKG product! | Vancouver Montreal Toronto Canada

great price, semi open, supposed to have good bass to and a good soundstage, sounds like the best of both worlds to me


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Have you looked into the Grado SR80i headphones? Grado headphones are usually the choice of audiophiles. Here's a link:

Grado SR80


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## Cankin (Jan 9, 2010)

Pepper_Roni said:


> what about these?
> 
> AKG K242HD High Definition Series Around-Ear Semi-Open Headphones - Mocca/Sand Colour - FREE! AKG Tour Jacket - $60 Value - With purchase of $200.00 worth of AKG product! | Vancouver Montreal Toronto Canada
> 
> great price, semi open, supposed to have good bass to and a good soundstage, sounds like the best of both worlds to me


K242HD are the consumer version of K240MKII, they sound the same. I'd go for K242MKII because they have two sets of ear pads(velvet and leatherette) and 2 removable cables(straight and coil) for the same price.

Long & McQuade - Products - AKG K240 MK II Headphones


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I have a pair of closed Sony MDR-V600's. They are I believe 2nd from top of Sony's tier. Had em about a year. They are an isolation headphone, and I really can't hear anything going on in the house if I have them on. Have recorded guitar at high volume with them and can still hear the backing tracks fine. Sound fidelity is excellent.

I haven't done the research that you have, so this not be 'the one' - I don't know where they rank in terms of audiophile ratings or value relative to goods received - but my experience has been beyond excellent with these.


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## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

Just a quick update, i got the AKG Acoustic K240 MKII semi open, and I LOVE them, thanks alot to Cankin for the reccomendation, there great!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

keto said:


> I have a pair of closed Sony MDR-V600's. They are I believe 2nd from top of Sony's tier. Had em about a year. They are an isolation headphone, and I really can't hear anything going on in the house if I have them on. Have recorded guitar at high volume with them and can still hear the backing tracks fine. Sound fidelity is excellent.
> 
> I haven't done the research that you have, so this not be 'the one' - I don't know where they rank in terms of audiophile ratings or value relative to goods received - but my experience has been beyond excellent with these.



I just picked up a pair of Sony MDR-V500 phones. This is the second pair of Sonys I have bought. I use mine for live sound to isolate individual strips from the mix. The Sonys hold up real good and sound great. I suppose you can spend a lot more and maybe in the studio there could be some merit to doing so but I've used plenty of high end phones and really don't hear a big improvement.


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