# My new mobile rig



## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

I’ve been using a Presonus 1818 interface, which has 8 mic pres. It can handle up to 18 ins and outs by utilizing ADAT and sp/dif as well, so I got a Behringer ADA8000 to expand to 16 mic pres. I need to do some testing before doing an actual remote, but I’m excited by the potential.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

What will be the primary use?


----------



## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

Budda said:


> What will be the primary use?


Recording a live big band. Primary pickup for the horns is a stereo boundary mic. I have solo mics within sections, upright bass gets a mic, piano mics in stereo, vocal mic. I need 12 channels all together.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Very cool.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Merlin said:


> Recording a live big band. Primary pickup for the horns is a stereo boundary mic. I have solo mics within sections, upright bass gets a mic, piano mics in stereo, vocal mic. I need 12 channels all together.


LOL, no, you need at least 32 channels.

(but I guess you could do it with one.)

I’m sure in your capable hands 12 channels would yield an exellent result.

I like control. A separate and isolated (as much as possible) channel for every instrument is what I want, but that’s not always practical I guess.

I do like the effect of mixing in a few ambient mics.

Good luck and please post recordings if you can.

(for some reason the picture in your OP won’t show up for me)


----------



## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

Milkman said:


> (for some reason the picture in your OP won’t show up for me)


Interesting. It was showing up before. I suspect this has something to do with the missing posts/database problem on the forum.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Same for me - no pic. I clicked on the link and got an Error screen. Ongoing forum issues - but better than it was a few days ago.

None-the-less, I have a good idea what this would look like. What these new consoles lack in visual oooh-la-la, they make up for in features and flexibility (and convenience). There was something to be said for this \/ for hardware geeks, but the new way is exciting.


----------



## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

Milkman said:


> LOL, no, you need
> 
> I like control. A separate and isolated (as much as possible) channel for every instrument is what I want, but that’s not always practical I guess.
> 
> ...


Big band and orchestral recording is more about blended sound, rather than isolated control over each track. 

I use a Crown SASS-P stereo mic for overall pickup. Close mics on the piano and upright bass. Solo mics in each section. Vocal mic is split from the house feed. The band plays unamplified, except for the bassist.


----------



## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

I have owned/used that Behringer pre in the past. It isn't a Grace or Millenia, but it works as described on the box, and the price is ridiculously low for what you get. I would use it for the instruments with the least dynamics, as it can get a bit crunchy on the high end if driven hard. Other than that, it is unlikely anyone will be able to tell you which pre you used for the recording. 

If you are placing this in a rack it's a good idea to leave a space above and below as the power supply runs very hot and will fail if not ventilated properly.

ps. There are racks piled high with the Behringers in use in Vegas for some of the large house shows.


----------



## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Merlin said:


> Big band and orchestral recording is more about blended sound, rather than isolated control over each track.
> 
> I use a Crown SASS-P stereo mic for overall pickup. Close mics on the piano and upright bass. Solo mics in each section. Vocal mic is split from the house feed. The band plays unamplified, except for the bassist.


It is a great joy to watch and listen as a big/jazz band balances themselves on stage.


----------



## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

I fixed the image.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Merlin said:


> Big band and orchestral recording is more about blended sound, rather than isolated control over each track.
> 
> I use a Crown SASS-P stereo mic for overall pickup. Close mics on the piano and upright bass. Solo mics in each section. Vocal mic is split from the house feed. The band plays unamplified, except for the bassist.


When it comes to jazz, big band is really what I prefer. I’ve always preferred Glen Miller and Tommy Dorsey to Parker and Coltrane (no offense to the Bebop crowd).

I understand your approach. I’m sure it will work.

I’m just too much of a control freak.


----------



## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

Milkman said:


> When it comes to jazz, big band is really what I prefer. I’ve always preferred Glen Miller and Tommy Dorsey to Parker and Coltrane (no offense to the Bebop crowd)


I prefer the bands of Basie, Ellington, Henderson, & Lunceford.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I love Basie and Duke Ellington as well.

Great stuff.

I was more of a classical fan as a kid. Big band stuff helped bridge the gap to jazz for me.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> Same for me - no pic. I clicked on the link and got an Error screen. Ongoing forum issues - but better than it was a few days ago.
> 
> None-the-less, I have a good idea what this would look like. What these new consoles lack in visual oooh-la-la, they make up for in features and flexibility (and convenience). There was something to be said for this \/ for hardware geeks, but the new way is exciting.
> 
> ...


I agree, but digital systems are getting smaller and more capable all the time. As I mentioned in another thread recently, my digital mixer (which also replaces the effects rack, graphs, snake et cetera) fits in the trunk (in its SKB case) of my small two door car.


----------



## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

ronmac said:


> I have owned/used that Behringer pre in the past. It isn't a Grace or Millenia, but it works as described on the box, and the price is ridiculously low for what you get. I would use it for the instruments with the least dynamics, as it can get a bit crunchy on the high end if driven hard. Other than that, it is unlikely anyone will be able to tell you which pre you used for the recording.
> 
> If you are placing this in a rack it's a good idea to leave a space above and below as the power supply runs very hot and will fail if not ventilated properly.
> 
> ps. There are racks piled high with the Behringers in use in Vegas for some of the large house shows.


Yeah, they seems to be "the" best choice when people asking for best for the money. I used it a bit with a friend and it was good for our purpose of 2 guitars/ 1 keyboard/ 1 drum.


----------



## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Milkman said:


> I agree, but digital systems are getting smaller and more capable all the time. As I mentioned in another thread recently, my digital mixer (which also replaces the effects rack, graphs, snake et cetera) fits in the trunk (in its SKB case) of my small two door car.


Hey Mike, do you use your QSC Mixer for recording too? I was sure it was only a live mixer board.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Milkman said:


> I agree, but digital systems are getting smaller and more capable all the time. As I mentioned in another thread recently, my digital mixer (which also replaces the effects rack, graphs, snake et cetera) fits in the trunk (in its SKB case) of my small two door car.


That was my point. Those old analog 48 i/p consoles look impressive as hell, but that's where it ends with the old tech. The new digital stuff is only getting better in all respects (power, flexibility, features, convenience). A couple of my buddies have already gone this way, but myself and my other guitar player can't justify the cost, considering our analog setups are working for us and the venues we play. 

If either of us experience grief with our current setups, that is certainly the replacement path. And of course, the longer we wait, the more we'll be able to get for our money (digital being what it is).


----------



## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

So far, so good with the mobile rig. I'm using a small notebook with Reaper as my recording medium. It's an Atom processor, with 32g flash memory, and an SD slot that can take 128g. I recorded a rehearsal last night with my Crown SASS-P Mk II stereo boundary mic. No issues whatsoever with read/write problems. I need to mic up a band and give it a good workout next.


----------



## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

I’ve also got a mid/side stereo mic setup I want to try out as well:


----------



## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

Merlin said:


> I’ve also got a mid/side stereo mic setup I want to try out as well:
> 
> View attachment 227448


i really enjoy the recordings i make with mid side configuration. i sometimes use an akg c100o , cad ribbon and edirol hr09 ...... battery powered and portable


----------



## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

I have to say I'm underwhelmed by the mid side recordings I've done so far. The Crown SASS-P has much better imaging, and folds into mono quite well too. The ribbon mics I've got will get used for brass solo/spot mics, so no loss there.


----------



## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Merlin said:


> I have to say I'm underwhelmed by the mid side recordings I've done so far. The Crown SASS-P has much better imaging, and folds into mono quite well too. The ribbon mics I've got will get used for brass solo/spot mics, so no loss there.


From the pictures it looks like you are using a ribbon mic as your "S" in the MS setup. Not all ribbons, or other figure of eight mics (especially dual diaphragm ones) for that matter, have symmetrical pickup on each side. That is crucial in getting a good capture to matrix. Without symmetry the imaging will be indistinct and smeared.

I use MS quite often, and enjoy some pretty spectacular results when the right combination of room and talent are in play. It's another tool in the box that I am glad to have.

My avatar shows one of my setups, a combination of Sennheiser MKH40 (M) and MKH30 (S) mics. If I need a little more focus in the "M" image I will swap the MKH40 (cardioid) out for a MKH50 (supercardioid), or sometimes even a shotgun (Neumann KMR81i).

Recording, like playing an instrument, is a lifelong journey. Often frustrating, with just enough wins here and there to keep us hooked.


----------



## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

Merlin said:


> I have to say I'm underwhelmed by the mid side recordings I've done so far. The Crown SASS-P has much better imaging, and folds into mono quite well too. The ribbon mics I've got will get used for brass solo/spot mics, so no loss there.


i started chasing the mid side muse after hearing this capture ..... i believe a sennheiser mkh 418 is being used ......

the crown mike you are using looks like a nice unit as well

cheers
ets


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

I use the APB ProSpec 1u4M4S. Other configurations available. Quite pricey at $1200 for a single rack space, but the quality and versatility blows me away. Suitable for live sound, recording and studio routing. 

http://www.apb-dynasonics.com/downloads/ProSpec/ProSpec-1U-2015-NEW-ADDRESS-022715.pdf


----------



## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

ronmac said:


> From the pictures it looks like you are using a ribbon mic as your "S" in the MS setup. Not all ribbons, or other figure of eight mics (especially dual diaphragm ones) for that matter, have symmetrical pickup on each side. That is crucial in getting a good capture to matrix. Without symmetry the imaging will be indistinct and smeared.


I think I might be more impressed with MS using a LDC with a Figure 8 pattern. The ribbon was used because it's the only mic I have with that pattern. The variable width of the image is fine. I'll revisit it at some point.


----------



## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

cbg1 said:


> i started chasing the mid side muse after hearing this capture ..... i believe a sennheiser mkh 418 is being used ......
> 
> the crown mike you are using looks like a nice unit as well
> 
> ...


Yes, the NPR folks know their stuff. The 418 is part of the equation.

That is one of my favourite TD sessions. The long miles on the road have really locked them together. A masterclass on arrangement and really listening to each other, as well as solid playing by both of them. The best dancers never step on each other's toes.


----------



## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

ronmac said:


> From the pictures it looks like you are using a ribbon mic as your "S" in the MS setup. Not all ribbons, or other figure of eight mics (especially dual diaphragm ones) for that matter, have symmetrical pickup on each side. That is crucial in getting a good capture to matrix. Without symmetry the imaging will be indistinct and smeared.


I think I might be more impressed with MS using a LDC with a Figure 8 pattern. The ribbon was used because it's the only mic I have with that pattern. The variable width of the image is fine. I'll revisit it at some point.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

cbg1 said:


> i started chasing the mid side muse after hearing this capture ..... i believe a sennheiser mkh 418 is being used ......
> 
> the crown mike you are using looks like a nice unit as well
> 
> ...


I love these two.

Their work on the “Down From the Mountain” concert DVD is fantastic.


----------



## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

Well, I saw an Apex 415b for a song at my local L&M today, so I'm trying that out as the Figure 8 mic in a mid side setup. Should be closer in response to the centre mic I"m using.


----------

