# Low Output on EMG 81/60 combo



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

So this LTD I picked up a while back seems to have a very low output compared to... every other guitar I own. On the interface input I have the dial at around 9-10 o'clock for all of my guitars but the LTD with the EMG's I have to get up around 2 o'clock to have it reach the same output level. 

Fresh battery for anyone that is curious and I metered it at 8.92V and it is a black cat eveready which I hear makes all the difference, except this time it didn't.

I have a spare set of pots here I thought I would give a whirl to swapping but figured I might ask for some information first to see if there is anything I could learn before I went and dove into a project with no purpose.


----------



## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Out of circuit battery reading less than 9 volts is a weak battery.

Pots ; read ohms ; it say all. You have to disconnect pots.
Most of the time with low volume, pots are not the issue.

Check pickups height from strings

Wich LTD ?


----------



## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Google ; Low Output on EMG 81/60 combo

Many answers


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Latole said:


> Google ; Low Output on EMG 81/60 combo
> 
> Many answers


Many answers that state, battery voltage/pick up height and not much else.

I thought maybe they are supposed to be lower output?? I just thought it strange they were so far removed from all of my other guitars that hover right around the same level.

It is an LTD EX-401DX


----------



## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Mods in the guitar ;
Bad solder .
Wrong pot value 

I wish to see pictures


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Latole said:


> Mods in the guitar ;
> Bad solder .
> Wrong pot value
> 
> I wish to see pictures


100 percent stock, solders are clean and everything is where it should be. I don't know the value on the pots but I have 2 25k that I think I am just going to go toss in because at least then I will know and for 6 dollars I can afford to be wrong

I'll snap some useful pics when I open it up


----------



## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

What is a 2 25 k pot ?
A 225 k or two 25 k ?

What about your weak battery ? Put a know good one first.

EMG wirings






EMG Pickups / Top Wiring Diagrams / Info / Electric Guitar Pickups, Bass Guitar Pickups, Acoustic Guitar Pickups


Electric Guitar Pickups, Bass Guitar Pickups, Acoustic Guitar Pickups and Accessories - EMG Active & Passive Pickups - over 25 Years of Active Pickup Technology - The original active pickup.




www.emgpickups.com


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

2 25k pots

I even hooked it up to a 9 volt adapter with a battery clip, same output. 

I think I have discovered the problem however. This wiring kit has a lot of pieces that don't look like they make sense. I never looked at it much when I bought it because it looked clean and virgin but then I discover all this nonsense 












I don't want a resistor on there and I don't know where that black cable goes, or came from. I am just going to rewire it all because then I will know what it is and that will be that. 

Trouble shooting is a crap chute, rewiring is a guarantee. Do it right and be done.


----------



## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

The brown piece is a capacitor , not resistor
If it is solder to the pot body with the black wire, this is the tone capacitor. Leave it like that

You wrote guitar is stock !!!!
Picture did not say much but look to home built to me.


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

You need a resistor on the tone pot or it will not work. based on your guitar model this is the wiring diagram you want


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Some pickups are designed to be lower output, but one rarely, if ever, sees a guitar that pointy whose pickups are deliberately lower output. So something is clearly amiss. A battery reading 8.9V is showing a bit of age, but is far from dead. And it's not like anyone would want a guitar whose pickups put out over 2.5VRMS., so even an 8.9V supply gives all the headroom one might need.

I'm less familiar with EMGs. Are all the active electronics built into the pickup underside, or is there a circuit board with perhaps a trimmer?


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

It is all in the pups. Something isn't right. I won't know what it is until I rewire it later today. 

Unless things are punching me in the face I am not smart enough to know what is wrong but I am smart enough to do it right


----------



## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

knight_yyz said:


> You need a resistor on the tone pot or it will not work. based on your guitar model this is the wiring diagram you want
> View attachment 417760


Where do you see a resistor ? I only see a capacitor


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

OH FFS excuse my auto correct. Capacitor


----------



## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Mark Brown,

No need to rebuilt the wiring.
Just follow wires to see if they go at the right place.
Easier and faster than rebuilt it. 

If guitar set-up is the best one; 
On a very basic circuit like this one, wich you say is stock*, a low volume issue may come from a defective parts ;
Mostly pickups or a defective volume pot ; low ohms value. 
With a wiring issue you may not have sound.

*IMO it look not from out of a store brand new guitar


----------



## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)




----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I went down deep into the Wikipedia yesterday and now can safely say I know the difference. I can almost promise I will still get it wrong 19 time out of 20


----------



## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

I have a similar issue with my prs mccarty when I added emg pups (81 and 85)

There were a few suggestions I think you may need to look into. Pick up height, stronger battery (get a good one, no dollar store shite), possible ground issue.

Mine is still low output but its bc of pup height. I've maxxed them out and im still 1/4" away from strings. My cv tele with a hot rails has way more output.
I also found a ground wire off the bridge that I forgot to connect. I also started off with a dollar store battery and upgraded to a energizer max.


----------



## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Very good advise some in answer #2
No feed back from OP about what is pickups height


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Latole said:


> Very good advise some in answer #2
> No feed back from OP about what is pickups height





Mark Brown said:


> Many answers that state, battery voltage/pick up height and not much else.


When I posted this I should have been more obvious that I already tried everything that is non-invasive and typical in response to low output. My bad.

I've got the pups damn near pushing the strings up off the fretboard lol.

I'm sure it's a weak ground or weak solder somewhere. Problem is I'm not fantastic at identifying things that are not painfully obvious so my obvious solution is to just go again


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I'm hindsight it might have been a better question to ask....

"Do EMG 81/60 combos typically have lower output than a single coil passive"

How the hell is anyone supposed to tell me what is wrong with my guitar without having it 

Beyond the obvious which to state a fact some people do not find obvious


----------



## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

The invisible forces at work...magnetics and electricity.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Mark Brown said:


> "Do EMG 81/60 combos typically have lower output than a single coil passive"


No.

81 specs:

Pickup type: Humbucker
Manufacturer: EMG
Magnet: Ceramic
Active: Active
Strings: 6
Made in: United States
*DC Resistance: 10.00k Ohm*
Resonant Peak: 1.63KHz
Cover color: Black, White, Ivory, Gold, Chrome, Black Chrome, Brushed Gold, Brushed Chrome, Brushed Black Chrome

*EMG-60 Humbucking Active Guitar Pickup Specifications:*

Resonant Frequency: 2.95kHz.
Magnet Type: Ceramic.
Output Voltage (String): 1.25.
Output Voltage (Strum): 3.5.
Output Noise @ 60Hz: -89dBV.
*Output Impedance: 10kOhms.*
Current @ 9V: 80 microamps.
Battery Life: 3,000 hours.


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Mark Brown said:


> "Do EMG 81/60 combos typically have lower output than a single coil passive"


Alright.... one more time 

"Do EMG 81/60 combos typically have lower output *VOLUME* than a single coil passive"

Maybe this time I asked the right thing LOL.

Hell even I am getting frustrated with me.


----------



## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Milkman said:


> No.
> 
> 81 specs:
> 
> ...


Because the EMG pickups have an integrated preamp with a low-z (10k) output impedance, the impedance doesn't tell you anything about the actual output like it does with a passive pickup. All of the pickups that EMG make have a 10k output impedance even though they have varying output levels depending on the model.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

gtrguy said:


> Because the EMG pickups have an integrated preamp with a low-z (10k) output impedance, the impedance doesn't tell you anything about the actual output like it does with a passive pickup. All of the pickups that EMG make have a 10k output impedance even though they have varying output levels depending on the model.


Thank you,

I should know that, but I don't.

I do know for sure that EMG humbuckers are not as low an output as a single coil passive.


----------



## 5150EVH0515 (10 mo ago)

Low output could be battery or the wiring to the battery holder. Emgs should not sound weak. I would go over the post that showed the wiring and follow that to make sure you have it wired correctly. It definately sounds like a wiring issue to me.


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Latole said:


> Bad solder


Surprise (no one is surprised) 
You nailed it mate. No strangeness here, just a bad solder. I didn't even get it apart and it was obvious. The bad connection was in the jack, the ground from the battery cable on the stereo out wasn't as strong as it should have been causing weak voltage across the pickups. 

Thanks for the suggestion.


----------

