# post-covid gig rates



## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

My band made some sacrifices during the lockdown to help venues accommodate the smaller crowds allowed. Now, it's looking like (surprise surprise) the low rates are becoming the expectation. What's your experience??


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Lower than what? Cracker crumbs?


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

One of my buddies keeps celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the hundred dollar gig. This is less.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Still don't have bars/clubs/indoor venues open here. Dunno.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Not sure about the rates. I haven't been in a rush to get us into the bars. There is one near my place where I have played before and now they have added a cover charge for the entertainment. I have a suspicion this is how they are paying the bands. The most that place can have is around 45-50 people and some days they charge $5 sometimes $3. That's not going to cut it.


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## blueshores_guy (Apr 8, 2007)

Doug Gifford said:


> One of my buddies keeps celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the hundred dollar gig. This is less.


Back in 1967-68 the high school rock band I was in usually got $100. For five of us. And we were happy with that. What you're describing is untenable.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Yeah, I've heard rumblings about the pay grade. 

Shit, I never left the house in 1978 for less than $100 take home pay. Sports bar makeovers, dance club makeovers, disco, smoking laws, drinking/driving laws, and serving laws, all happened within a few years and kicked the crapola out of available gigs and venues. As the venues diminished, so did the bands. I left live playing for several years and when I returned so much had changed it was almost unrecognizable. Quit most of my band work 3 or 4 years ago, hoping to return after some time off, but then Covid happened. I ain't getting any younger either. Sure, my heyday is long in the rearview mirror, but I gotta be worth something? Right? Right? Oh, never mind, I'll stop whining now.

It doesn't help that the economy is more depressed than the news lets on.

I have noticed in the last couple of weeks that some of the guys that I used to be in bands with are out there doing their solo acts, likely getting whatever they can at brew pubs, bars, restaurants, and the like. Good for them, they're good. (I've considered it myself, but the pay doesn't near cover my time, gear, or loss of dignity. Never mind that I hate being a human jukebox, even if I actually know the request.) Others have resumed gigging with stripped down bands, duos, whatever. Survival, I guess.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

blueshores_guy said:


> Back in 1967-68 the high school rock band I was in usually got $100. For five of us. And we were happy with that. What you're describing is untenable.


To be clear, that's pay for each of us. But it's still less than twenty years ago when a solo gig netted $200. Then ten years ago in the same place duos got $200 but solos got $150. And now … I quoted $100 for a weekly outdoor solo gig and was told they couldn't afford that much. Negotiation ended at that point. I know, in fact, that I'm competing with some folks who'll play for beer or free.


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## slag banal (May 4, 2020)

I don’t think anyone should ever play for free or near-free, unless it’s in support of a real charity. People who play for free drive down the price for everyone else. People who can afford to play for free should charge a reasonable rate and then donate the money to a real charity.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

slag banal said:


> I don’t think anyone should ever play for free or near-free, unless it’s in support of a real charity. People who play for free drive down the price for everyone else. People who can afford to play for free should charge a reasonable rate and then donate the money to a real charity.


Really? Drive down the price for everyone else? So for those people, they should just stop playing music? How much money is acceptable? What if I just want to share my music?


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

It’s going to be tough times for both venues and bands as some degree of live music returns. Some have asked for a ‘consideration’ in our fee as we return to gigging. The final amount is less than 18 months ago... Hopefully this is a short term phenomena.


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## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

I actually put my rate up, just like the increased rates most venues charge for pretty much everything including food and drinks. 
Not that it really makes a difference, but I decided not to go out and play if I don't get a fair wage a number of years ago. I do mostly corporate / solo gigs with companies that have always been fair and respectful and understand that a performer needs to earn a living. 

On the other hand, playing live with my 3 or 4 piece group, well, still a poverty wage but such great fun. 

Charitable gigs.. for a cause we support are always no charge as isn't all about raising $$ for the cause itself? Feels good to do community work and play music, win / win


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

dgreen said:


> Charitable gigs.. for a cause we support are always no charge as isn't all about raising $$ for the cause itself? Feels good to do community work and play music, win / win


Expressed interest in a Pride event in September. I assumed it would be paid. Learned we'd be getting tax receipts for the value of our performance (what we'd normally charge for a 30 minute show). Seemed a bit… idunno… not quite right. Took a pass on that one. Other things, that I consider genuine charities, we'd just play for the good of our hearts.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Chito said:


> Really? Drive down the price for everyone else? So for those people, they should just stop playing music? How much money is acceptable? What if I just want to share my music?


Original music? Well I guess you can do what you want. Playing covers? Yeah you're actually undercutting literally every other musician in your local scene and making it harder for all of them.

Like imagine a business like say, a guitar store. Now what would happen if a few people who just enjoy guitars a lot went to the store and applied for a job. But instead of pay they offered to volunteer and work in the store for free because they enjoy seeing and playing all the new instruments on the walls. Once the store realizes people will work there for free they aren't going to want to pay staff to work there. In fact they might let people go. And then when anyone applies for a job opening they're told, "Well we don't offer a wage anymore. It's a volunteer position. But you get to play with all the stuff that we have on the sales floor!"

Lately around here we have retired boomers rediscovering their instruments, forming garage bands, and going out to book gigs for basically free beer. These are at venues that normally a band would make $600-700 a night. So then what's happening is the regular bands go to approach the bar to book after these guys have been undercutting and they're told the rate is $100-200. I've seen several lifelong working musicians literally hang up their gear and quit gigging because it's no longer worth their time to do so. It's getting very difficult to get anyone to play in an actual full band because the rates are so low that most guys are either doing solo acoustic or duo acts instead.

The funny part is people and clubs now wonder why the bands they're getting are so shitty. Because you get what you pay for.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Really though…if someone is willing to accept a lower talent band that plays for free over a band that may be much better but wants x amount to play….that’s what the market bears. Don’t blame the guy that is happy playing just to play. No one ever guaranteed a musician a certain wage. If the market doesn’t support what you expect to get paid then don’t play.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Original music? Well I guess you can do what you want. Playing covers? Yeah you're actually undercutting literally every other musician in your local scene and making it harder for all of them.
> 
> Like imagine a business like say, a guitar store. Now what would happen if a few people who just enjoy guitars a lot went to the store and applied for a job. But instead of pay they offered to volunteer and work in the store for free because they enjoy seeing and playing all the new instruments on the walls. Once the store realizes people will work there for free they aren't going to want to pay staff to work there. In fact they might let people go. And then when anyone applies for a job opening they're told, "Well we don't offer a wage anymore. It's a volunteer position. But you get to play with all the stuff that we have on the sales floor!"
> 
> ...


I don't know which venues will pay a cover band 600 to 700 bucks. Maybe where you are. Bars are not making enough money to pay bands a lot of money. Thats just the way it is. There is not much appreciation for live band music. Specially with the younger generation. Blaming guys who play for free as the cause of bars paying bands cheap is just silly. Bands that play well usually get more money than a bunch of garage bands. Not saying what you're saying is not happening but a lot of these bars supporting live music are not making money. Thats the bottom line..


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Chito said:


> I don't know which venues will pay a cover band 600 to 700 bucks. Maybe where you are. Bars are not making enough money to pay bands a lot of money. Thats just the way it is. There is not much appreciation for live band music. Specially with the younger generation. Blaming guys who play for free as the cause of bars paying bands cheap is just silly. Bands that play well usually get more money than a bunch of garage bands. Not saying what you're saying is not happening but a lot of these bars supporting live music are not making money. Thats the bottom line..


I'm telling you guys playing cover bars for free is killing the industry. That's happening. Sorry it doesn't jibe with your world view. When a band plays for free they're stating that the value for the service musicians provide is nothing.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I agree.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> I'm telling you guys playing cover bars for free is killing the industry. That's happening. Sorry it doesn't jibe with your world view. When a band plays for free they're stating that the value for the service musicians provide is nothing.


Wrong. What they’re saying is that the service THEY’RE providing as a musician is worth nothing.

It’s always easier to find a someone to blame than it is to dig a little and did the true root cause of a problem. It’s simplistic and silly to say Joe that plays for free is ruining the live music in bars industry. But hey, if it makes you feel better then go right ahead. I just think that your unwilling to acknowledge the real reasons behind the decline.

Most bar owners and drunken patrons of those bars simply don’t care about the quality of the entertainment (beyond a certain point) and simply aren’t willing to pay for it.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> Wrong. What they’re saying is that the service THEY’RE providing as a musician is worth nothing.
> 
> It’s always easier to find a someone to blame than it is to dig a little and did the true root cause of a problem. It’s simplistic and silly to say Joe that plays for free is ruining the live music in bars industry. But hey, if it makes you feel better then go right ahead. I just think that your unwilling to acknowledge the real reasons behind the decline.
> 
> Most bar owners and drunken patrons of those bars simply don’t care about the quality of the entertainment (beyond a certain point) and simply aren’t willing to pay for it.


Talk to any working musician that's been watching this play out over the last several years. They'll tell you what I'm telling you. Club owners are cheap. If they can get a product (entertainment) for nothing then they will. If there's guys willing to fill their stage for free then that's what they're going to put on the stage. 

It would be like if you and a few others started offering guitar and amp repair in your local area for free. How long do you think that would go on before you put actual techs out of business?

I like how you denied that a cover band would get $600+ per gig. That's exactly what they used to pay around here 5 years ago. Now its $200. Which is why there's no cover bands and its solo guy with acoustic guitar, a looper, and a drum machine.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Talk to any working musician that's been watching this play out over the last several years. They'll tell you what I'm telling you. Club owners are cheap. If they can get a product (entertainment) for nothing then they will. If there's guys willing to fill their stage for free then that's what they're going to put on the stage.
> 
> It would be like if you and a few others started offering guitar and amp repair in your local area for free. How long do you think that would go on before you put actual techs out of business?
> 
> I like how you denied that a cover band would get $600+ per gig. That's exactly what they used to pay around here 5 years ago. Now its $200. Which is why there's no cover bands and its solo guy with acoustic guitar, a looper, and a drum machine.


I've been doing the bar scene in Ottawa for almost 30 years now. And I know a LOT of working musicians here. It's very simple, the reason they are paying $200 is because they are not making that much money anymore. Again, the live music scene is not being supported by the public anymore. Those days are gone. 15 years ago, I was playing in a country band and it was very easy to get an $800 gig even if the band is not that good. But nowadays, there's not enough people who come out to watch live music anymore. And of course there are other other factors too, like the D&D law. But to simply say that musicians who play for free is the cause of this, well you need to look at it at a different perspective.


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## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

Personally I still think it is about the quality of the music being performed. In 1979 when I played saxaphone (as a 19 year old) in an 11 piece big band, I was getting $100 per gig. The band was getting $1200 / gig. We played for big events like the annual real estate board awards night, many veteran's events, new years ball room dance events, etc

Bars had bands coming in back then that were really good and paid well. The big factor then was that there was an audience that appreciated and anticipated the bands coming in. Just not the same now (imo)

Often now it is computer generated , looped and sampled music with one person at the control board that seems to fill the big clubs with dancers. Times are a changin


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

dgreen said:


> Personally I still think it is about the quality of the music being performed. In 1979 when I played saxaphone (as a 19 year old) in an 11 piece big band, I was getting $100 per gig. The band was getting $1200 / gig. We played for big events like the annual real estate board awards night, many veteran's events, new years ball room dance events, etc
> 
> Bars had bands coming in back then that were really good and paid well. The big factor then was that there was an audience that appreciated and anticipated the bands coming in. Just not the same now (imo)
> 
> Often now it is computer generated , looped and sampled music with one person at the control board that seems to fill the big clubs with dancers. Times are a changin


I quickly ran that through an inflation calculator. That band getting $1200 in 1979 would be $4490 in 2021 dollars.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I will not take less than $100 a night. But I have in certain circumstances. I've had instances where the band leader originally booked the gig as a 3 piece but then wanted to bring me in as a forth last minute for whatever reason. If I wasn't doing anything anyway and just felt like getting out and playing I would do it and take $70\$80.
I have a gig this Saturday that I was asked to do with my old band, an outdoor gig in a trailer park where the drummer has his trailer. When I initially said yes (which I did with out hesitation just to get out) I thought it was a freebie as there was a gig or 2 we used to do in the summer for "Make a wish foundation" or some other charity. 
I was delighted to find out that I'd be getting paid $125.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> I quickly ran that through an inflation calculator. That band getting $1200 in 1979 would be $4490 in 2021 dollars.


Unfortunately the bar industry has been so decimated since 1979 that profit margins have no where near kept up with inflation. All these bars (maybe there's exceptions) are pretty much week to week making the bills. I noticed since about the beginning of the 2,000's (maybe a bit sooner) the crowds getting thinner and thinner with the exception of a few. One exception is a band I play in for about a year before the pandemic. We were getting quite large crowds (the band had a great following) but still was only $100 a night. Of course we played so much, about 3 to 4 gigs a weekend and every single weekend so each of us came away with a useful income in addition to our day jobs. But to do that was exhausing. many Saturdays playing a matinee somewhere, tearing down and setting up somewhere else for the night. Which is why after about a year I made my exit from the band. The guys were great and I had a great time in the band but just couldn't keep pace with the schedule.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

dgreen said:


> Personally I still think it is about the quality of the music being performed. In 1979 when I played saxaphone (as a 19 year old) in an 11 piece big band, I was getting $100 per gig. The band was getting $1200 / gig. We played for big events like the annual real estate board awards night, many veteran's events, new years ball room dance events, etc
> 
> Bars had bands coming in back then that were really good and paid well. The big factor then was that there was an audience that appreciated and anticipated the bands coming in. Just not the same now (imo)
> 
> Often now it is computer generated , looped and sampled music with one person at the control board that seems to fill the big clubs with dancers. Times are a changin


When I started out touring, end of the 70's and was an inexperienced road musician I made about $3 - $400 a week for 6 or 7 nighter gigs. by about 83 I was more experienced got jobs in better bands and I was still only making about $500 to $700 a week. Which I thought was great. Was just a young kid travelling and had a great time. Occasionally I'd have short term gigs making even more. 
About 1992 I was able to land an audition with a high profile Canadian music artist that had great success in Nashville and would have really improved my resume. At that time I was at a crossroads, having gotten married in 1987 and with my second kid on the way by 1992 I had to make a decision. So I gave up the road musician dreams and became an IT professional. No regrets.


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## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> I quickly ran that through an inflation calculator. That band getting $1200 in 1979 would be $4490 in 2021 dollars.


Yes, it was hard to believe getting that $100 envelope after a gig back then. Mind you, it was the only 11 piece big band that played the big band era music for hire in our part of the lower mainland. It was like stepping into a different world at some gigs as the smell of wealth filled the air. It was a whole new experience for me back then.


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

part of it is also that the charitable sector has really expanded and those shows tend to be organized by fundraising people for some sort of high and noble cause and can attract some good talent. the days of high dollar tickets for exclusive fundraisers are over and they run them sort of along the same financial model as churches - everybody welcome, eat some food listen to some music, sit through the motivational speeches, contribute what you can. The band contributes music. The caterer contributes food prep. Various businesses contribute the food. The venue contributes the space. So for the fundraising organization there's almost no out of pocket expense and a few generous donors make up for the ones who show up for a free evening and The Good Word is spread to the masses. The direct money all goes to The Cause whatever it is and I think it leads to an assumption that everything can or should be donated. This clicked for me in the early '90s I saw Bruce Cockburn play at a fundraiser for land mine removal at the University of Winnipeg. I realized that if I volunteered to help set up or tear down I could see good musicians for no money which led to playing at those events for no money which led to different charitable causes as I got older and more and more of a separation between music and money. Mea culpa as far as both putting on and playing at shows with no money involved. 

It started back in the day with religious outreach and moved to faith based community development and then secular community arts organizations and both lefty and conservative political advocacy. Now post-covid the charity can be the venue itself. Unfortunately the result is an expectation that music and any other artistic form is essentially a charitable cause both on the giving and receiving end and grant-writing is the key financial talent that a musician needs. 

j


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

I was lucky before the COVID since we got half the door entry . Very good pay out since we filled the place out with family and friends. Great party and worthwhile to lug all the equipment.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

This is why I got into asphalt paving 30+ years ago, instead of covering a bar tab. I had a mortgage, kids and a gal that was counting on me to earn more than a bar tab?

It is discouraging that you folks whom are good musicians are expected to work for peanuts. I am going to Wide Mouth Mason and the Sheepdogs at the Saskatoon Jazz Festival Aug 7, I hope they can make a living with their talent?

Society and people as a whole need live music and arts very much right now, don't sell yourself short!


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## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

Timely message last night from a bandmate: someone looking for a cover band for this Saturday night. 100 guests, 3 hours of playing plus dinner, but we have to set up before dinner. So round off to 6 hours of time there, plus travel (it's 45 mins away). Their pay offer for the entire band: *$200 plus tips*.

This whole thread has been an interesting. Perhaps we could have an ongoing thread on the topic? It would be great to know what people are making for playing out.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

DaddyDog said:


> Timely message last night from a bandmate: someone looking for a cover band for this Saturday night. 100 guests, 3 hours of playing plus dinner, but we have to set up before dinner. So round off to 6 hours of time there, plus travel (it's 45 mins away). Their pay offer for the entire band: *$200 plus tips*.
> 
> This whole thread has been an interesting. Perhaps we could have an ongoing thread on the topic? It would be great to know what people are making for playing out.


We could probably avoid these insulting offers if all musicians stuck together. Unfortunately there are so many bands that would take $200 or less just to go have some fun and play. In most cases the venues don't even care if the bands suck.


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

guitarman2 said:


> the venues don't even care if the bands suck


i sometimes wonder whether the venues and audiences like it better when the band isn't good? if you go to a guitar festival show or other really technical event people don't drink a lot or get a lot of food they sit there with their jaws on the floor listening to the performance and then cluster around talking about it afterwards. Or even a good live band is like that. I've taken my kids to see Royal Canoe in the 'Peg several times and I'm a Bros. Landreth fan. Niether of those are bar bands but still. There's not a lot of booze or food consumed at those events people come for the music that's all. Kinda slim pickings for the venue other than the door take. 
j


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Sketchy Jeff said:


> i sometimes wonder whether the venues and audiences like it better when the band isn't good? if you go to a guitar festival show or other really technical event people don't drink a lot or get a lot of food they sit there with their jaws on the floor listening to the performance and then cluster around talking about it afterwards. Or even a good live band is like that. I've taken my kids to see Royal Canoe in the 'Peg several times and I'm a Bros. Landreth fan. Niether of those are bar bands but still. There's not a lot of booze or food consumed at those events people come for the music that's all. Kinda slim pickings for the venue other than the door take.
> j


A band doesn't have to be super technically proficient. Some of the best musicians to listen to keep it simple. So you have a band that knows how to play together and individually don't try to play above their skill level, doesn't play too loud. A lead singer and the backing vocals don't have to be fantastic but on key and pleasant to listen to. And most importantly a front man that knows how to get the crowd cooking and get them up dancing. They'll drink. I've played in a couple bands over the years that weren't that great but the front man\lead singer was great at connecting with the audience and they thought we were the best band they'd seen in a long time.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

DaddyDog said:


> Timely message last night from a bandmate: someone looking for a cover band for this Saturday night. 100 guests, 3 hours of playing plus dinner, but we have to set up before dinner. So round off to 6 hours of time there, plus travel (it's 45 mins away). Their pay offer for the entire band: *$200 plus tips*.
> 
> This whole thread has been an interesting. Perhaps we could have an ongoing thread on the topic? It would be great to know what people are making for playing out.


For a private event like this one, $200 is not going to cut it. Specially with 100 guests and all that.
For these kind of events the minimum I would take for the whole band is $100 each. So if we are a 6piece $600 is the minimum. But I usually charge more than that, minimum is only for friends or people I know.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

DaddyDog said:


> Timely message last night from a bandmate: someone looking for a cover band for this Saturday night. 100 guests, 3 hours of playing plus dinner, but we have to set up before dinner. So round off to 6 hours of time there, plus travel (it's 45 mins away). Their pay offer for the entire band: *$200 plus tips*.
> 
> This whole thread has been an interesting. Perhaps we could have an ongoing thread on the topic? It would be great to know what people are making for playing out.


That would be a hard no for a band with any self respect. When you factor in fuel and travel time you're basically playing a gig for free. A stand-alone gig that isn't in a venue where the band has to provide PA, lights, and do their own sound? That should be $1000 minimum. A friggin DJ that just sits there with a laptop and a playlist would charge minimum $400 for an event.

Think about it this way. $200 pay. So the minimum a full band can be is probably a 3-piece. Split three ways that's $66.67. So you have to be on site for 6 hours and there's 45 minutes travel each way so that's a commitment of 7.5 hours. So when you divide $66.67 by 7.5 hours that works out to $8.88 an hour. So what this person is asking for is a band to provide professional entertainment for their event for LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE. People pay their babysitters more than this.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Oh well. Fortunately you have a choice whether to work for those rates or not. If someone else is willing to then too bad. I can tell you one thing though, sitting around complaining about it won’t get you a raise. Maybe you should consider playing because you enjoy playing rather than beating a dead horse. The world doesn’t owe you anything.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> The world doesn’t owe you anything.


The person hiring the musicians sure does.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

When there is little to no barrier to entry the market gets fucked.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I’m not knocking anyone or what they do. I just think, whether it’s Joe the retired guy gigging for free’s fault, or the guy running the bar deciding that going the extra mile and paying accordingly for a good band doesn’t increase his revenue enough to make it worthwhile, or the bar’s patrons fault for not demanding better entertainment and be willing to pay for it…it all just comes down to the lack of demand and the great availability of musicians of varying skill level. You can’t realistically blame anyone. It’s a market in decline. It sucks. Adapt or die.

Like the Godfather..it’s nothing personal, just business.

So as a musician, you have a choice. Just play and accept what you can get, or play for free, or just for fun, or whatever scratches that itch. Just get used to the idea that, at least for now, making a decent dollar just isn’t the norm.

It’s hard to say where it’ll go from here but I think it’ll get worse before it gets better. Stuff is opening now but many people who were spending during COVID are starting to tighten their belts now. I’ve heard more people saying money is tight right now than I have in a loooong time.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> It’s hard to say where it’ll go from here but I think it’ll get worse before it gets better. Stuff is opening now but many people who were spending during COVID are starting to tighten their belts now. I’ve heard more people saying money is tight right now than I have in a loooong time.


I think people are being selective with their time lately. I know we've just come out months of lockdowns and we barely have a summer left. I don't think there's a ton of people willing to use the free time they have to sit around listening to local bands.

I know here in MB there's a camp style resort about an hour north of the city and they tried putting on a music festival scheduled for next weekend. Saw on FB today that they just canceled the entire thing because they only sold 36 tickets (out of 1000).


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

I'm not back to gigging yet, but I'm not anticipating a drop in rates. I've actually raised my wedding rate considerably (I hate wedding gigs) but it would seem that I might have several this fall (through a wedding planner, which removes much of what I hate about wedding gigs).


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## benum47 (Oct 13, 2013)

In Edmonton, with a good band, we’re getting around $500 split by 5 for one night and around $800 for a two nighter. Much more for a Casino gig. A bar can always find someone for less, but they won’t get the crowd dancing (even with masks on) and this increases the bar/food take. Unfortunately this requires being pretty good and not playing too often (scarcity = novelty). The open stage/jam thing has been the one-man-band-with-midi-tracks-in-the-90’s -2.0 for the last several years.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## DrumBob (Aug 17, 2014)

I'm making the same money, but I don't have as many gigs.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

If you're playing gigs for $100 a man I hope you're doing it out of love, not business sense.

Adding an hour for set up and sound check, a half hour to tear down (if everybody hustles) makes it around 5.5 hours and you're just over $18 / hour. Plus expenses.

If filthy lucre is your goal you'd be better off slinging drinks.

It is what it is.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Milkman said:


> If you're playing gigs for $100 a man I hope you're doing it out of love, not business sense.


I give my portion to the drummer who hosts our rehearsals and always has beer and food on hand for us.
We gig(ged) maybe 3 - 4 times a year (pre-covid). We're rockin' out in Guelph this Friday which will be our second gig this year.
First one was a backyard 70th b-day party in July.
We're just a typical dad band. lol


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

laristotle said:


> I give my portion to the drummer who hosts our rehearsals and always has beer and food on hand for us.
> We gig(ged) maybe 3 - 4 times a year (pre-covid). We're rockin' out in Guelph this Friday which will be our second gig this year.
> First one was a backyard 70th b-day party in July.
> We're just a typical dad band. lol
> View attachment 389138


You're doing it for the right reasons. It's not a job, it's something you enjoy doing and I completely get that.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Chito said:


> I've been doing the bar scene in Ottawa for almost 30 years now. And I know a LOT of working musicians here. It's very simple, the reason they are paying $200 is because they are not making that much money anymore.


It’s not about the money.
I had a regular gig playing at the restaurant at the Canadian Tire Centre for the Ottawa Senators’ games. Over probably 5 seasons, we played around 125-plus gigs. We got $100 a man plus dinner and parking. There were huge crowds and people danced, sang, drank and ate. One night, I was talking to the manager in his office while he was finishing the night’s totals. It was a Saturday night playoff game against Pittsburgh. He said they had done their best night of the year, over $30,000.

The last season, they stopped booking us for weeknight gigs because “we can get an acoustic guy for 150 bucks”. The manager went to bat for us and told the bosses flat out, “When _these_ guys play, the place stays busy for a couple hours after game time until we finally have to kick people out. When we have other bands, people come hang out for a half hour, sipping a drink until the parking lot clears out. 45 minutes after the game, it’s pretty much dead.” They didn’t care. Acoustic acts for week nights, bring in the band for Saturday nights and “big” games.

Now, our bass player had a buddy who came to pretty much every one of those 125 gigs and at the end of the night, he’d always slur “Man, it must be awesome to play here. I’d give anything...”. Well eventually, he was in a mediocre cover band. He went over the manager’s head because he knew the promotions guy and offered to play free. We never got another gig.

It doesn’t matter how much a bar pulls in. They will always hire the free band.



Chito said:


> But nowadays, there's not enough people who come out to watch live music anymore. And of course there are other other factors too, like the D&D law. But to simply say that musicians who play for free is the cause of this, well you need to look at it at a different perspective.


You can argue the chicken/egg thing, but I was someone who went out all the time to see bands and I know a LOT of people who did as well. Every weekend, you could hit up any number of clubs and you didn’t even need to know who was playing, you knew they hired only quality acts. Eventually, as the “play for free” bands took over, you’d show up and it was a bunch of dudes who could barely tune their instruments, struggling their way through Mustang Sally, Summer of ‘69, and for the big finish, maybe Rockin’ in the Free World. They were shit and they were everywhere. THAT’s why bar owners don’t make money with live music. There will always be people who want to see good, live music but the only people who want to see the other dudes are their family and coworkers and even _they_ eventually get sick of it.

The ship has sailed though. If all bar owners suddenly started paying for GOOD bands, it would still take years for it to sink in that going out to see good, live music at any number of venues on any given weekend is the norm. It will never happen because the world is completely conditioned to the fact now that bars are where you go to see mediocre, hobby musicians. The good bands are still out there but they’re far outnumbered by the guys willing to play for beer.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

2manyGuitars said:


> .. and for the big finish, maybe Rockin’ in the Free World


Ha! That's ours as well. Too funny.
Everybody loves it though.

I used to cash my paychecks at the Gasworks, Toronto. Like you stated, didn't mater who played, it was a good night out.
I noticed the change in lack of patrons when the smoking bans came into play way back.


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