# The Untold Story of Fenders Relic Guitars



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Good article on Fenders highly controversial, widely debated, relic guitars

The untold story of Fender’s relic guitars


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

nice.. thanks for the link

to follow, I hope we have a long and civil discussion on why relics are great


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

vadsy said:


> nice.. thanks for the link
> 
> to follow, I hope we have a long and civil discussion on why relics are great


I expect at least one "I don't get relics". If anyone doesn't get relics just read about them You don't have to like them to get them. Unless your dense and its your first day on the Internet.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I can understand some of the functional benefits of the relicing process.

I’d be one who would appreciate those functional elements, but without the attempt to create the illusion of age.

That’s just what I would prefer and I’m quite sure it can be achieved.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I can understand some of the functional benefits of the relicing process.
> 
> I’d be one who would appreciate those functional elements, but without the attempt to create the illusion of age.
> 
> That’s just what I would prefer and I’m quite sure it can be achieved.


I'm pretty much right there with you. My ideal finish would be a not so shiny body. More flat looking but not too dinged up or worn off finish to appear as though it went through hard use that it did not experience. Light or Journeyman relic are my favorite body finish. However when it comes to the neck I like the fretboard and back of the neck to look like its been played for 40 years. Not because of the look but because the feel of it is fantastic. I've played heavily relic'd necks and there is nothing that feels better and inspires play. The only problem is that the neck might look funny next to a body that doesn't exhibit the same wear.
I've never tried a neck that was unfinished except for something like a light Tru Oil or some other very light sealer. I wonder if it would have the same affect for feel as the heavily relic'd neck.


----------



## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

vadsy said:


> I hope we have a long and civil discussion on why relics are great


 ... and if it's going to be a "civil conversation" there will be a need to leave room for comments about why they're not so great.
A one sided conversation may technically look more civil at first glance but it's not really a conversation so much as it is a monologue.
As I see it that is usually the reason these things get out of hand.
Somebody expresses an opinion and somebody else becomes incensed by it and things turn to the reactionary.
If people could remember that opinions expressed are in fact opinions it might go a long way to relaxing tensions.


----------



## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

guitarman2 said:


> Good article on Fenders highly controversial, widely debated, relic guitars
> 
> The untold story of Fender’s relic guitars


I really like reliced(sp?) guitars, but the only ones I have ever played are Tom Murphy aged Gibsons, no Fenders yet. I think the aging job he does is really amazing. Those guitars actually feel old and every one I have tried is a great guitar. Mind you the sample size is small, I have only played four of them.

To be honest though, I don't really care what a guitar looks like. It can be thrashed, reliced or new, if I like it I like it.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

BMW-KTM said:


> ... and if it's going to be a "civil conversation" there will be a need to leave room for comments about why they're not so great.
> A one sided conversation may technically look more civil at first glance but it's not really a conversation so much as it is a monologue.
> As I see it that is usually the reason these things get out of hand.
> Somebody expresses an opinion and somebody else becomes incensed by it and things turn to the reactionary.
> If people could remember that opinions expressed are in fact opinions it might go a long way to relaxing tensions.


Yes, that’s right. Thanks for getting things started


----------



## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

vadsy said:


> long and civil discussion on why relics are great


OK

What makes them great? 

If you take a shortcut to a good thing does that cut into how good it is?

I have a friend who owns a '62 tele that he bought new and has played most days since then and it shows. It looks great plays great. If I sit down with a rasp and a nail and some carefully selected dirt to duplicate all his nicks and dings and stains in my '13 will mine get better? 

I worked in a furniture shop years ago that relic'd some stuff. It's a lot of work getting it to look legit and takes skill and attention to detail. 

People were definitely willing to pay for it. More willing to pay for us to relic a piece of furniture than put the same amount of additional time/expense into improving its quality of materials and construction. 

j


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

sometimes I buy ripped jeans because it takes too long to rip them myself


----------



## sillyak (Oct 22, 2016)

I get the practical, played in feeling a relic gets you. I get and dig the "old" look. I don't get the "played by a coal miner, inside the mine everyday/occasionally used as a shovel" look.


----------



## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

Interesting read


----------



## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

Definitely a cool read. I love relics, especially the coal miner ones. People must like them, they’ve been selling like crazy since 1995


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

Good article. I love a nice, well played and beaten strat.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Sketchy Jeff said:


> OK
> 
> *What makes them great? *
> 
> ...


If you don't find them great why would I waste my time trying to explain it to you. I hate black guitars. But here is the only place you'll ever see me say this. And only to make a point. I don't like black guitars so I don't buy them. And more importantly I don't go in to a thread about black guitars to tell people how much I don't like them or a real moronic statement would be "I don't get black guitars". 
I've said it before but I won't expect the real haters to get it as they seem to be obtuse when it comes to relic threads. Or they're just trolling. And don't think I don't respect opinion. But there's opinion then theirs just plain idiocy at saying the same tired thing over and over. 
Relic, artificial aging is a finish option. It has a 2 pronged affect. It makes your guitar look old. A good relic job can be somewhat convincing. The second affect is that it makes your guitar feel old and worn in. The one thing I've read on forums more than "I hate relics", is "I hate the way my new neck feels all sticky. How can I take the finish off". Well on a relic it feels like decades of playing. Like a well worn slipper. 
Now I'm not necessarily a relic lover. I don't like the looks of the ones that look like they've been dragged behind a pickup truck for 100 miles. But I certainly won't criticize anyone else for liking them anymore than I'd criticize a black guitar or a puke green guitar.
Relic guitars is just one more option for those that want them. And if you can comprehend that statement then you'd "get relics".


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I have a custom relic Esquire, and I'm embarrassed everytime someone asks me how old it it.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

cboutilier said:


> I have a custom relic Esquire, and I'm embarrassed everytime someone asks me how old it it.


I will gladly save you future embarrassment, send it my way and I'll wear it out along with my fake ripped jeans next gig


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

vadsy said:


> I will gladly save you future embarrassment, send it my way and I'll wear it out along with my fake ripped jeans next gig


I wanted to trade it for another Tele without the aftermarket wear, but it sounds too damn good. I'm scared to let this one go. I might refinish it down the road though.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I’ve seen several relic’d guitars for sale here that were very appealing to me other than the relic’ing, and considered buying them to refinish, but the money case wasn’t there because people expect others to pay extra for the wear.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

cboutilier said:


> I wanted to trade it for another Tele without the aftermarket wear, but it sounds too damn good. I'm scared to let this one go. I might refinish it down the road though.


I had the same issue with my Masterbuilt Nocaster. Last year I was gigging 3 nights a week every week and I'd get atleast 3 to 4 times a month someone asking me what year my Tele was. I loved the strange look I'd get when I told them it was a 2008. I can imagine what went through their heads. "This guy is way too hard on his stuff". I wasn't embarrassed. I had fun with it.
At one gig a girl came up to me in between songs, pointed to my guitar and said "That guitar is badass".
People don't seem to think about the #1 adavantage of relic guitars, is when you sell them you can say their mint, meaning the same condition when you bought it new. Who's to know. It can be tiring when lowballers try to pick apart every tiny ding or imperfection to lower the price. Doesn't happen on a relic.


----------



## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

"If you don't find them great why would I waste my time trying to explain it to you"

Because I'm curious about the appeal. The world is not split into fan-boys and haters. A relic'd guitar is a feature that quite a few people are prepared to spend a lot of extra dollars on. So far I haven't been one of those people but seems to me there could be benefits other than the gut level appeal of a thing that looks like it has history? 

You noted and so did somebody else earlier that a relic'd neck feels different / better. I get that but it's rare to see a relic neck on a new body. Does a relic'd body also play better and relic'd pickups sound better? Maybe if the body has some dings to start with you don't feel as tied in a knot about it and can relax into playing the thing? 

Or maybe what you're saying is that it's beyond words or reasons. Either you already like it or you already don't there's no process involved same as some people like sea foam green and others not so much. 

People buy pre-worn new jeans but not pre-worn new cars. Pre-worn furniture yes but appliances no. If it's just an arbitrary matter of tastes that's fine. I'm just wondering if there are practical benefits that come along with the whole thing relic'd in the same way that you explained with the neck only. 

j


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

cboutilier said:


> I wanted to trade it for another Tele without the aftermarket wear, but it sounds too damn good. I'm scared to let this one go. I might refinish it down the road though.


yea, don't do that. don't give in to the pressure of what some keyboard warriors think is appropriate for guitars to look like


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Sketchy Jeff said:


> Because I'm curious about the appeal.


because they look cool



> People buy pre-worn new jeans but not pre-worn new cars. Pre-worn furniture yes but appliances no.


what about buying used? is that pre-worn? guess that happens all the time then


----------



## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

To me a shiny brand new or NOS vintage reissue looks fake. “Wow look how mint your old guitar is, no it’s actually a brand new guitar”. Wouldn’t that cause just as much confusion if you’re showing off a guitar. 

Either way NOS, light, heavy, coal miner relic treatment, like mentioned is a finish options. I glad I own a few. I think for the haters out there, grab one and play it for awhile.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

vadsy said:


> *what about buying used? is that pre-worn?*


And that statement right there is what gets me going with the relic haters. Their number 1 argument is that "if you play an artificially aged guitar you're just a poser".
Yet the guy with more money than talent that has the money to buy someone elses vintage guitar to claim the history wear as their own is not a poser?


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Sketchy Jeff said:


> People buy pre-worn new jeans but not pre-worn new cars. Pre-worn furniture yes *but appliances no*. If it's just an arbitrary matter of tastes that's fine. I'm just wondering if there are practical benefits that come along with the whole thing relic'd in the same way that you explained with the neck only.
> 
> j


I've bought preworn appliances. They're called used and I get them for a good deal. I'm just too darned old to relic a new one.


----------



## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

vadsy said:


> Yes, that’s right. Thanks for getting things started


 What did you expect ... after your last volley at me? Am I the one who is supposed to be single handedly civil while you take pot shots at me?


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

BMW-KTM said:


> What did you expect ... after your last volley at me? Am I the one who is supposed to be single handedly civil while you take pot shots at me?


lulz, are you upset about something?


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Funny, relic’d guitars are now considered forbidden to dislike? 

We’re all haters because we don’t want stuff that _looks _old?

Sure lots of people buy used, but not many will take a belt sander to an appliance or car in otherwise great shape.

“Hey, I just bought this 68 Firebird and it didn’t look rough enough so I dented the quarter panels, scraped up the paint and tore up the leather a bit.”, has been said by.....yeah probably nobody.

It’s fine if you like them, but hey, show me someone willing to pay a premium for the functional elements without the fake aging and the concept will gain some ground with me.

Otherwise, it’s fake bullet holes on the tailgate of a pick up or wearing sunglasses in a supermarket to some of us.

Buy what you like, like what you buy.


----------



## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Nice bit of history. Interesting that artists went for them first, which I see was a way to have a cool looking guitar on tour that wasn’t a priceless artifact. I like the point made that you can ding it up and not really care.
Thankfully Fender sells new an relic’d guitars so everyone has a choice.


----------



## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

Tried my first home relic job but I think I got a bit carried away.


----------



## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

vadsy said:


> lulz, are you upset about something?


Am I upset? No. LOL.
You don't have the power to upset me.
Am I actively noticing the double standard you apply to others on this forum and lately myself in particular? Yes. Absolutely.
Did I make a reference to it here on this thread?
Yah I did but the better question is, does that surprise you?


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Otherwise, it’s fake bullet holes on the tailgate of a pick up or wearing sunglasses in a supermarket to some of us.


...or ELMA driving gloves when your ride is a Nissan Sentra


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

vadsy said:


> ...or ELMA driving gloves when your ride is a Nissan Sentra


Is that what you drive?

I figured Prius.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Is that what you drive?
> 
> I figured Prius.


quip game needs work,., but anyways, I once crashed a Prius but it wasn't mine.
I've already declared here that I drive a 1 ton dually with giant testikles hanging from the trailer hitch. it helps me compensate and feel empowered at the same time. I just assumed that was a Sentra in your avatar and since you haven't posted a picture of it in three weeks I don;t know what it could be. is it a Fiat, Miata, Golf?


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

BMW-KTM said:


> Am I upset? No. LOL.
> You don't have the power to upset me.
> Am I actively noticing the double standard you apply to others on this forum and lately myself in particular? Yes. Absolutely.
> Did I make a reference to it here on this thread?
> Yah I did but the better question is, does that surprise you?


man, I am so confused. did we date and it ended badly? you sound like most of my ex's when I run into them at a party and they say theyre fine but they end up drinking too much and yelling at everyone before passing out next to the hot water tank


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

vadsy said:


> quip game needs work,., but anyways, I once crashed a Prius but it wasn't mine.
> I've already declared here that I drive a 1 ton dually with giant truck testikles hanging from the trailer hitch. it helps me compensate and feel empowered at the same time. I just assumed that was a Sentra in your avatar and since you haven't posted a picture of it in three weeks I don;t know what it could be. is it a Fiat, Miata, Golf?


I guess there will always be those who think trolls are cool and fun.

I’m not one of them.

I do find it interesting that you spend so much time and effort to try and make this site a shitty place for me. I honestly don’t understand what makes someone who seems to at least have the power of connected speech descend to such childish and nasty tactics.

You seem to be setting the standards for behavior here.

And, you even get likes from some to encourage you.

Pathetic really.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

geez, now I feel bad


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

vadsy said:


> geez, now I feel bad


No, you really don’t have the character to feel bad.

It just seems like we have to accept you running from thread to thread poisoning the environment.

Or hey, maybe I’m the problem.

Hmmm, my great sins seem to be loving the car I can afford (no, I can’t afford a Porsche as I am the sole breadwinner for my kids and grand child), posting selfies (that one REALLY seems to stick in your craw).

Expressing my opinions......thought this was a forum.

By the way, the car is an Infiniti G37 Coupe. It’s no super car, but as I have explained, it’s what I can afford.

Well, anyway, I just don’t understand what makes a grown man (my assumption on both) act the way you do.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

What the hell happened here?


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Budda said:


> What the hell happened here?


Same as always.

Vadsy wanted a little fun.


----------



## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

tomee2 said:


> Nice bit of history. Interesting that artists went for them first, which I see was a way to have a cool looking guitar on tour that wasn’t a priceless artifact. I like the point made that you can ding it up and not really care.
> Thankfully Fender sells new an relic’d guitars so everyone has a choice.


Heard the relic story on WTF podcast # 884 back in January or February ... good interview and some great stories ... well worth the listen


----------



## Doug B (Jun 19, 2017)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 272062



No,no-that's the Road Worn Dept....must I do all the work?


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Budda said:


> What the hell happened here?


I think it’s pretty clear that I’m being ganged up on


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

GuitarT said:


> Tried my first home relic job but I think I got a bit carried away.


Well it looks like it has something to say but can’t find the words .. lol


----------



## StratCat (Dec 30, 2013)

guitarman2 said:


> I'm pretty much right there with you. My ideal finish would be a not so shiny body. More flat looking but not too dinged up or worn off finish to appear as though it went through hard use that it did not experience.
> .



Same here. That’s what I love about my ‘57 Reissue Hot Rod Strat - a dull sunburst finish where each and every mark, ding, dent, abd scratch in the soft nitro finish was put there by myself or my son.

Gratuitous picture time:


----------



## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

guitarman2 said:


> I've bought preworn appliances. They're called used


Used is different. It's got a real story of things that happened to it and the people that were involved. I love used instruments. I'm willing to put up with their downsides because I like the upside of the personal story and the likelihood that whatever bugs it might have had are probably worked out by the time it's a few years old. Usually also less money but that's a trade for no warranty so a gain and a loss. 

Relic'd is like a pretend used thing. It looks like it has a story but it doesn't. But used has some disadvantages like actual wear and tear on functional bits that matter. 

I will admit to dragging my white high top sneakers down the road behind my bike in the '80s so they didn't look so new. 

j


----------



## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

vadsy said:


> what about buying used? is that pre-worn?


No. Used has a real story with connections to real people and real wear and tear as a result of real use. 

Relic'd is a shot at the advantages of new and the visible advantages of used at once. Have yer cake and eat it. The price is that it's a fake story with nobody involved. That's cool if you're into it and if there are real performance advantages to a worn neck and body then maybe worth it. Or if it gets you past the personal hangups of putting the first scratch in a new finish and lets you get on with more playing then great, relic away. 

Used is great. Not without its downsides either, but great. 

j


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Sketchy Jeff said:


> No. Used has a real story with connections to real people and real wear and tear as a result of real use.
> 
> Relic'd is a shot at the advantages of new and the visible advantages of used at once. Have yer cake and eat it. The price is that it's a fake story with nobody involved. That's cool if you're into it and if there are real performance advantages to a worn neck and body then maybe worth it. Or if it gets you past the personal hangups of putting the first scratch in a new finish and lets you get on with more playing then great, relic away.
> 
> ...


maybe and maybe not. What if the relic job is art and now the guitar has a better story than factory made new?


----------



## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

vadsy said:


> maybe and maybe not. What if the relic job is art and now the guitar has a better story than factory made new?


every instrument has a better story than factory made new. factory made new has no story at all. that's what people like about them they can make their own story from scratch. people love pulling that plastic shit off pickguards cuz it symbolizes a new start

art is cool. i like art. i've made art and i've relic'd furniture and i wouldn't put those two things in the same category. maybe instruments are different. 

j


----------



## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

This is well used, and I like it. I didn't do the using though...


----------



## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

Sketchy Jeff said:


> ...People buy pre-worn new jeans but not pre-worn new cars.


Not unless you have a loose couple of hundred grand or so burning a hole in your pockets for one of these...


----------



## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

Sketchy Jeff said:


> Relic'd is a shot at the advantages of new and the visible advantages of used at once. Have yer cake and eat it. The price is that it's a fake story with nobody involved. That's cool if you're into it and if there are real performance advantages to a worn neck and body then maybe worth it. Or if it gets you past the personal hangups of putting the first scratch in a new finish and lets you get on with more playing then great, relic away.


 Well put.

I could tell you all sorts of stories about this guitar:


----------



## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

I don’t own any relics, but I wish I did for two reasons:

They feel great, especially a nicely worn neck.
Adding new dings is not going to negatively affect the value of the guitar, it’s just contributing to the relic process.
They look cool.
There is no fourth thing.



Sketchy Jeff said:


> I worked in a furniture shop years ago that relic'd some stuff. It's a lot of work getting it to look legit and takes skill and attention to detail.
> 
> People were definitely willing to pay for it. More willing to pay for us to relic a piece of furniture than put the same amount of additional time/expense into improving its quality of materials and construction.


At a certain point with many guitars (especially a Fender guitar), adding more time/expense to the guitar stops adding quality and starts adding “bling”. That may be crazy inlays, or super-flamed maple, exotic woods, painstaking finishes, and the like. A relic finish is just a different kind of “bling”. Some people like the fancy inlays, I’d prefer a guitar that looks like what my heros play.



Sketchy Jeff said:


> Used has a real story with connections to real people and real wear and tear as a result of real use.


Does this remind anyone else of the Friends episode with the apothecary table? Phoebe likes old stuff for the same reason as quoted above, but hates anything mass produced. When told that the new table (actually from Pottery Barn) is old, Phoebe loves it. Rachel makes Ross cover up his exact same table with a sheet to hide her embarrassment. Eventually Phoebe comes around when seeing all of the things in the Pottery Barn store that Rachel has already brought to their apartment, and she wants more of it.

So if you see a guitar that might be vintage or might be a reproduction, ask yourself, “Do I like this guitar irregardless of its history?” Age doesn’t make it good. A real story connected to real people doesn’t make it good. Maybe the old guitar was owned by a horrible person to do horrible things... who knows?

Also, @cboutilier don’t cover up your Esquire with a “sheet” of new paint. If your guitar looks cool and old as it is, let it be the Pottery Barn equivalent of a musical instrument (everybody loves Pottery Barn!) Or tell people that it’s from “colonial times” or "the days of yore”.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Hammertone said:


> Well put.
> 
> I could tell you all sorts of stories about this guitar:


Yeah but if someone bought it from you they couldn't tell you one story about it and it would be about as historically meaningless as if they'd bought a nice artificially aged guitar. 
We can debate this all day but in these days of no more 7 nights a week touring with a band and indestructible UV resistant finishes artificial ageing has a place and I think will for the foreseeable future. Martin released their line of aged authentics. The Prewar CO. gets a lot of buzz about their tasteful prewar inspired aged reproductions. Many other boutique builders are all doing it, both acoustic and electric. As I've stated before, the haters have about as much credibility as someone who doesn't like a certain finish color. 
For me a form of light to medium relic suits my personality. I like faded worn jeans and a guitar to match. Jeans don't take nearly as much time to relic and if I bought someone elses vintage jeans wouldn't cost me what a vintage telecaster\stratocaster would cost. 
When it comes to blingy, fancy guitars with lots of pearl inlay and art work, I can appreciate it and drool over it like any player but its not something I'd want cause it doesn't suit me. 
I certainly wouldn't criticize anyone's choice for owning one though. I wouldn't criticize them because they weren't the artist who created all that fancy work therefore haven't rightfully earned it.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

troyhead said:


> There is no fourth thing.


Is there a plan for the "fourth thing" be listed soon?
Should I keep checking back?


Thanks for my laugh for the day.


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Stencils?

Fender Custom Shop Relic guitars: Stencilled finishes on premium instruments? - gearnews.com


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

troyhead said:


> I don’t own any relics, but I wish I did for two reasons:
> 
> They feel great, especially a nicely worn neck.
> Adding new dings is not going to negatively affect the value of the guitar, it’s just contributing to the relic process.
> ...


I play that Esquire enough that my forearm is starting to wear through a poly finish. A nitro respray, in my hands, would look like a CS Heavy Relic in under a year.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

sulphur said:


> Stencils?
> 
> Fender Custom Shop Relic guitars: Stencilled finishes on premium instruments? - gearnews.com


Took this "moronic" statement from the comments section. I see alot of relic haters saying this. Like a new shiny guitar will make you play better? How you play and how your guitar is finished have nothing to do with each other. The only legitimate argument that a relic hater can have is that they don't like the looks of it. Yet they need to find other reasons to hate it. Usually reasons that insult someone else for liking them.



> "And a phony old guitar won’t make your phony playing any better."


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

It’s fashion. Period. 

The only difference between jeans and white shoes is that nobody wears ripped jeans or scuffed up shoes so that other people see them and think, ‘wow, that guy must have lots of stories of hard work and years of experience; look at those rips/scuffs!’ 

Any of the feel differences on a relic guitar can be achieved without marking a guitar up. 

So if we’re going to debate fashion choices there’s really no way to settle the debate. For me, however, the relic guitars seem like an attempt to buy some type of trumped up notion of “authenticity“ and “legitimacy.”


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Took this "moronic" statement from the comments section. I see alot of relic haters saying this. Like a new shiny guitar will make you play better? How you play and how your guitar is finished have nothing to do with each other. The only legitimate argument that a relic hater can have is that they don't like the looks of it. Yet they need to find other reasons to hate it. Usually reasons that insult someone else for liking them.



Really? I think I can come up with a few more than one legitimate reason to not buy a relic. What I _can’t _have is any reason for YOU to do the same.

Maybe in the past I have made comments that were judgmental. I’m trying to reduce that inclination, but I can come up with lots of reasons I dislike relics.

All of them have been stated. No need to repeat them.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

cboutilier said:


> I play that Esquire enough that my forearm is starting to wear through a poly finish. A nitro respray, in my hands, would look like a CS Heavy Relic in under a year.


My Tele is a nitro finish over a thin poly sealer. I don't sweat very much and I play it maybe an hour a day 5 or 6 days a week. But I'm holding it longer than that when I'm sitting watching TV or at the computer I may not be playing but I'm holding it. I can feel the fore arm spot getting mucked up despite not sweating much. I don't wipe down my guitars. I can see my Martin Authentic D-28 41 starting to wear small holes through the finish after having only 3 years. That guitar will have a thin nitro finish. 
I doubt my tele will start showing wear for at least 10 to 15 years. By then I'm 75


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> .
> 
> For me, however, the relic guitars seem like an attempt to buy some type of trumped up notion of “authenticity“ and “legitimacy.”


After all the countless Internet debates and all the points I've outlined and this is your conclusion, I can only come to the conclusion that you're just too stupid to ever get it. 
I'd have to counter as well that the guy that buys a vintage guitar with someone elses history relic is trying to buy his way in to "authenticity" and "legitimacy".
I don't believe that. Its all snobbery. If you can play the dam thing your legitimate in my books. I don't care if you own a $150 squire or a 9k Masterbuilt, whether its relic'd or shiny as a newly minted coin.
People have legitimate reasons for owning the guitar of their choice with the finish that they want. Anyone who tries to tell them how they should spend their money or tries to put some negative connotation on their personality is a pukey troll.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Really? I think I can come up with a few more than one legitimate reason to not buy a relic. What I _can’t _have is any reason for YOU to do the same.
> 
> Maybe in the past I have made comments that were judgmental. I’m trying to reduce that inclination, but I can come up with lots of reasons I dislike relics.
> 
> All of them have been stated. No need to repeat them.


I completely respect all your reasons for "YOU" not to buy a relic. The world is a lot happier when we buy what we want regardless of others opinions. I'm not referring to you as I think you are one of the rare ones that articulate your feelings about the subject rationally.


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

guitarman2 said:


> My Tele is a nitro finish over a thin poly sealer. I don't sweat very much and I play it maybe an hour a day 5 or 6 days a week. But I'm holding it longer than that when I'm sitting watching TV or at the computer I may not be playing but I'm holding it. I can feel the fore arm spot getting mucked up despite not sweating much. I don't wipe down my guitars. I can see my Martin Authentic D-28 41 starting to wear small holes through the finish after having only 3 years. That guitar will have a thin nitro finish.
> I doubt my tele will start showing wear for at least 10 to 15 years. By then I'm 75


My Esquire sees 3-8 hours of stage time a week, sometimes more, plus 3-6 hours of rehersal. It's a workhorse.


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> After all the countless Internet debates and all the points I've outlined and this is your conclusion, I can only come to the conclusion that you're just too stupid to ever get it.
> I'd have to counter as well that the guy that buys a vintage guitar with someone elses history relic is trying to buy his way in to "authenticity" and "legitimacy".
> I don't believe that. Its all snobbery. If you can play the dam thing your legitimate in my books. I don't care if you own a $150 squire or a 9k Masterbuilt, whether its relic'd or shiny as a newly minted coin.
> People have legitimate reasons for owning the guitar of their choice with the finish that they want. Anyone who tries to tell them how they should spend their money or tries to put some negative connotation on their personality is a pukey troll.


Before you call me stupid perhaps actually read my post. Did I suggest marking up a guitar yourself is somehow "authentic" or 'legitimate'? No. I actually think the quest for authenticity is ridiculous in every way.

Did I claim that somebody is wrong to buy a relic? No. I wrote that ultimately the debate is about fashion and there is no right or wrong.

Who is too stupid to get it?


----------



## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

This thread is about the story of how relics cane about. Half the people posting probably didn’t read the article and just went right into why they don’t like relics 

Things like, like what you want but I’m going to give you my 2 cents why to don’t like them. Why are you people even posting? Just to start shit just like every other post that has anything to do with a relic guitar. 

The only guitars I ever see leave any guitar store are the heavy relics. Must be a bunch of door knobs buying them.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

traynor_garnet said:


> It’s fashion. Period.
> 
> The only difference between jeans and white shoes is that nobody wears ripped jeans or scuffed up shoes so that other people see them and think, ‘wow, that guy must have lots of stories of hard work and years of experience; look at those rips/scuffs!’
> 
> ...


I agree that it's fashion but in no way does it have to equate to trying to pass off “authenticity“ and “legitimacy.”


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

JonnyD said:


> This thread is about the story of how relics cane about. Half the people posting probably didn’t read the article and just went right into why they don’t like relics


thats how relic threads go


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Sketchy Jeff said:


> art is cool. i like art. i've made art and i've relic'd furniture and i wouldn't put those two things in the same category. maybe instruments are different.


sure it's art. instruments or furniture. if you can spill paint on a guitar and call it 'gifted' art then you can scrape it up with a butterknife and call it the same thing. Truly though, you ever look at the detail on a Tom Murphy and not consider it something special?


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

JonnyD said:


> This thread is about the story of how relics cane about. Half the people posting probably didn’t read the article and just went right into why they don’t like relics


I read it but the marketing phrase 'pre-ageing' made it tough to swallow  You did not age the guitar; it is not any older! LOL


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I think it takes real talent to make something brand new look genuinely old. Having said that, I like my stuff to look nice. I clean and polish and glue and touch-up as best I can to keep my stuff looking as new as possible. That's me. Some of my gear is worn, dinged, and chipped and I don't like that - again, that's me. My 72' B has a dent in the hood. My first wife backed into it with a school bus - 3 weeks after it was fully restored in 1988. I hate that dent and although I have a new hood sitting in the shed the budget just didn't allow for a redo so I've lived with it for over 30 years.


----------



## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

relic'ing is bling i agree and Fender solidbody guitars don't lend themselves to conventional bling in the same way that a Super400 does for example

bling's not bad

somebody else commented that there are few musicians any more slugging it out gigging 5 nights a week plus practice so the actual wear and tear on most instruments isn't that much it will take forever for my '13 tele to look worn under the conditions i play in. if i want it to look like it has some mileage sooner or later i need to have at it with a file or leave it out on a stand when my buddy and his toddler kids come over

john lennon's opinion that his guitar sounded better when he sanded all the finish off got a lot of mileage at the time. 

my question at the beginning was whether a good relic job improves the sound and playability of the instrument

it seems like the answer here is that for the neck yes. for the rest of it no other than helping you into a good head space

i have no argument with bling. some people like those little PRS fretboard birds. who am i to judge

j


----------



## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

vadsy said:


> sure it's art. instruments or furniture


i think i might have changed my mind

i thought about it last night after i sent that post 

the furniture relic work i did back in the day likely would have turned out (even) better if i had thought of it as art and treated it as an artistic detail rather than a compromise

j


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Sketchy Jeff said:


> relic'ing is bling i agree and Fender solidbody guitars don't lend themselves to conventional bling in the same way that a Super400 does for example
> 
> bling's not bad
> 
> ...


According to Wes at the Prewar Co, it does indeed improve the sound of the guitar. Of course we're talking acoustic guitars here which are going to be more sensitive to this.
There are some guys over at the Martin guitar forum that have put in orders for Prewar Co guitars, originally for the lowest distress level. They were advised to go to distress 2 or 3 as it makes a difference. The Prewar Co have made a lot of noise in the industry, very quickly for being able to produce that prewar 30's sound even better than Martins highest attempt, the authentics of which I own 2. Molly Tuttle and Bryan Sutton have ordered Prewar Co guitars along with many other notables in the industry.
I have not been able to get my hands on one yet. Every time Folkway lists one its gone before they even get it in the store. And these guitars are not cheap. I know that Folkway has only gotten the Mahogany guitars in. I'm wondering if its because of CITES as the Prewar 28 style are made with Braz back and sides. However since the CITES restrictions has been relaxed it shouldn't be a problem.
You can see examples of their distress levels on their site. They look pretty convincing.
Just an after thought, I wonder if Molly Tuttle and Bryan Sutton are trumping up fake authenticity and legitimacy as "Traynor Garnet" suggests. Because I guess their playing wouldn't be enough to give them legitimacy.


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Just an after thought, I wonder if Molly Tuttle and Bryan Sutton are trumping up fake authenticity and legitimacy as "Traynor Garnet" suggests. Because I guess their playing wouldn't be enough to give them legitimacy.


Probably not because they too are probably busy trying to put words in my mouth so that they can “win.”


----------



## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> It’s fashion. Period.”


This. Accompanied by the universal disclaimer "_de gustubus non disputandum est._"


----------



## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Yeah but if someone bought it from you they couldn't tell you one story about it and it would be about as historically meaningless as if they'd bought a nice artificially aged guitar.


Yes. A new owner can make up as many stories as I can about the Coral strat above, since it's a new guitar I just put together with a mildly-reliced MJT body. No, wait, it came from the estate of Walter Becker, and is my most highly prized possession. No, wait, it was actually used on the original recording session of Max Webster's _A Million Vacations_ by Kim Mitchell. No, wait...it belonged to Jackson Browne, who got it from David Lindley, who got it from Ry Cooder, yeah, that's the ticket.

There is a range of motivations among consumers, just as there is a range of tastes. Some folks want to deceive, some like patina, some like shiny stuff, some want to impress, some want to impress with anti-bling, and on and on. The makers want to sell guitars, so whatever they say can be understood as part of their pitch, whatever that may be, which confuses things but is simply noise. The kids want beat-up guitars? Great! Shiny figured wood? Great! Brass parts? Great! Copies of some rock star's guitar? Great! You want velvet? We got velvet! Come on down!


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

You guys really think 7 nights a week is over?

For real?


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Budda said:


> You guys really think 7 nights a week is over?
> 
> For real?


I'm 60 next July. YES! Its over.


----------



## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

Art for art's sake, money for god's sake.
-10cc (Stewart/Gouldman)

It's not about art, it's about commerce.

*Step Right Up*
Step right up, step right up, step right up,
Everyone's a winner, bargains galore
That's right, you too can be the proud owner
Of the quality goes in before the name goes on
One-tenth of a dollar, one-tenth of a dollar, we got service after sales
You need perfume? we got perfume, how 'bout an engagement ring?
Something for the little lady, something for the little lady,
Something for the little lady, hmm
Three for a dollar
We got a year-end clearance, we got a white sale
And a smoke-damaged furniture, you can drive it away today
Act now, act now, and receive as our gift, our gift to you
They come in all colors, one size fits all
No muss, no fuss, no spills, you're tired of kitchen drudgery
Everything must go, going out of business, going out of business
Going out of business sale
Fifty percent off original retail price, skip the middle man
Don't settle for less
How do we do it? how do we do it? volume, volume, turn up the volume
Now you've heard it advertised, don't hesitate
Don't be caught with your drawers down,
Don't be caught with your drawers down
You can step right up, step right up
That's right, it fillets, it chops, it dices, slices,
Never stops, lasts a lifetime, mows your lawn
And it mows your lawn and it picks up the kids from school
It gets rid of unwanted facial hair, it gets rid of embarrassing age spots,
It delivers a pizza, and it lengthens, and it strengthens
And it finds that slipper that's been at large
Under the chaise lounge for several weeks
And it plays a mean Rhythm Master,
It makes excuses for unwanted lipstick on your collar
And it's only a dollar, step right up, it's only a dollar, step right up
'Cause it forges your signature
If not completely satisfied, mail back unused portion of product
For complete refund of price of purchase
Step right up
Please allow thirty days for delivery, don't be fooled by cheap imitations
You can live in it, live in it, laugh in it, love in it
Swim in it, sleep in it,
Live in it, swim in it, laugh in it, love in it
Removes embarrassing stains from contour sheets, that's right
And it entertains visiting relatives, it turns a sandwich into a banquet
Tired of being the life of the party?
Change your shorts, change your life, change your life
Change into a nine-year-old Hindu boy, get rid of your wife,
And it walks your dog, and it doubles on sax
Doubles on sax, you can jump back Jack, see you later alligator
See you later alligator
And it steals your car
It gets rid of your gambling debts, it quits smoking
It's a friend, and it's a companion,
And it's the only product you will ever need
Follow these easy assembly instructions it never needs ironing
Well it takes weights off hips, bust, thighs, chin, midriff,
Gives you dandruff, and it finds you a job, it is a job
And it strips the phone company free take ten for five exchange,
And it gives you denture breath
And you know it's a friend, and it's a companion
And it gets rid of your traveler's checks
It's new, it's improved, it's old-fashioned
Well it takes care of business, never needs winding,
Never needs winding, never needs winding
Gets rid of blackheads, the heartbreak of psoriasis,
Christ, you don't know the meaning of heartbreak, buddy,
C'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon
Cause it's effective, it's defective, it creates household odors,
It disinfects, it sanitizes for your protection
It gives you an erection, it wins the election
Why put up with painful corns any longer?
It's a redeemable coupon, no obligation, no salesman will visit your home
We got a jackpot, jackpot, jackpot, prizes, prizes, prizes, all work guaranteed
How do we do it, how do we do it, how do we do it, how do we do it
We need your business, we're going out of business
We'll give you the business
Get on the business end of our going-out-of-business sale
Receive our free brochure, free brochure
Read the easy-to-follow assembly instructions, batteries not included
Send before midnight tomorrow, terms available,
Step right up, step right up, step right up
You got it buddy: the large print giveth, and the small print taketh away
Step right up, you can step right up, you can step right up
C'mon step right up
(Get away from me kid, you bother me...)
Step right up, step right up, step right up, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon, c'mon
Step right up, you can step right up, c'mon and step right up,
C'mon and step right up

-Tom Waits


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

troyhead said:


> Does this remind anyone else of the Friends episode with the apothecary table? Phoebe likes old stuff for the same reason as quoted above, but hates anything mass produced.


That's the only issue I have. Fenders Road-worns are production run guitars. I've seen three of them hanging in a store and all three have exactly the same wear marks and imperfections. A little too predictable to be believable. I've seen other relic jobs that are far more believable. 

But it's just a finish, like bling and other stuff. I wouldn't buy a guitar because of it, but I wouldn't pass on one because of it either. The same with the color. With the exception of buying new and when I've had a choice (which I've done maybe 3 times in the last couple of decades) I look past the aesthetic and buy guitars that speak to me sonically and from a feel POV. Could be new, used, relic, blingy - I don't give a flying fuck. The finish is about the last thing I care about.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> Probably not because they too are probably busy trying to put words in my mouth so that they can “win.”


Really? I put this in your mouth?



traynor_garnet said:


> For me, however, the relic guitars seem like an attempt to buy some type of trumped up notion of “authenticity“ and “legitimacy.”


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Really? I put this in your mouth?


Yes you did, because right before this I wrote that it’s ultimately a fashion choice and there’s no way to decide what’s wrong or right. You are selectively quoting and ignoring things I write to position me as a “hater.“ It’s an easy way to try to win an argument.

I clearly wrote that I find the entire quest for authenticity ridiculous in every conceivable way. It doesn’t matter to me if relicing involves unintentionally banging up guitars yourself over time (so that somehow you think the marks ‘tell a story’) or going out and buying a relic. Both try to create some type of aura of authenticity that I believe to be problematically tied to the complete saturation of marketing in our lives.


Where you quoted me above, it’s important to note that I clearly wrote “for me“ the guitars “seem“ like an attempt to gain legitimacy and assume authenticity. I never wrote that anyone else is wrong if they don’t think like me; you cannot be wrong about your impression of fashion and aesthetics. At best, you can make a case for why you perceive the guitars in a particular way.

So with that said, here is my ‘case’. The very Martin guitars you reference above are interesting to me because the company relics guitars from a line that is literally called the “authentic” series. When you watch the video about Martin’s relicing process, the words “ Mojo“ and “vibe“ are used several times right from the beginning. While they try to make it appear this isn’t just about cosmetics, they repeatedly go back to the ‘look’ of the relic guitars.

Like I wrote earlier, but once again you didn’t quote, any of the improvements in playability or sound can be done without actually making the guitar look used. If you want to roll the edges on the fretboard so they’re round instead of sharp that’s fine. If you want to use half the amount of lacquer on a guitar that’s fine. But these are just design decisions although they may be very reasonable decisions. But when those decisions get married to words like “mojo“ and “vibe“ or fake picking marks or cigarette burns that signify how much use the guitar has had, I perceive relics in the way I’ve noted above.

Am I right to see them this way? It’s impossible to say, but one can make an argument for why they see things from a particular perspective. I don’t think any guitar can be “authentic“ or somehow “legitimate” so I refuse to pit reliced guitars against any so-called “authentic“ guitars. As I said before, I find the entire notion of “authentic“ guitars ridiculous and my only issue with the relic guitars is that they seem to participate in this whole ridiculous discourse of authenticity. But as a fashionable commodity, if the look appeals to someone then so be it. They are not wrong for finding them appealing.

TG


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> I'm 60 next July. YES! Its over.


I was under the impression you meant for guitarists, not you specifically.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Budda said:


> I was under the impression you meant for guitarists, not you specifically.


I haven't toured since the mid 90's. I mainly played Southern Ontario, Northern Ontario and Western Canada and occasionally Quebec. The clubs I played out West were fantastic, Notably clubs like Texas Tea in Saskatoon and Edmonton's Cook county saloon seated a few thousand. From what I was told all these clubs are gone or certainly don't book 6 and 7 nights. Back in the 80's and 90's there were tons and tons of bands booking out on the road. It was very easy to find a band to play every night and make decent money. Hell you could have stayed in Ontario and worked steady, every night of the year. I assumed all that was gone. I imagine the industry has just changed but I don't think its like it was. 
I used to like the option of dropping everything and heading out on a tour whenever I felt like it. I couldn't do it now.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I watched the PBS Country Special last night and was surprised to see Willie Nelson playing his old acoustic (Trigger) with the hole in it 40 years ago. I'm starting to think he bought it relic'd


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> I haven't toured since the mid 90's. I mainly played Southern Ontario, Northern Ontario and Western Canada and occasionally Quebec. The clubs I played out West were fantastic, Notably clubs like Texas Tea in Saskatoon and Edmonton's Cook county saloon seated a few thousand. From what I was told all these clubs are gone or certainly don't book 6 and 7 nights. Back in the 80's and 90's there were tons and tons of bands booking out on the road. It was very easy to find a band to play every night and make decent money. Hell you could have stayed in Ontario and worked steady, every night of the year. I assumed all that was gone. I imagine the industry has just changed but I don't think its like it was.
> I used to like the option of dropping everything and heading out on a tour whenever I felt like it. I couldn't do it now.


Cook County is still around. Just FYI in case of sentiment


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

vadsy said:


> Cook County is still around. Just FYI in case of sentiment


Awesome. I loved that place.


----------



## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

Id be lying if I said I didn't like the looks of a seafoam green journeyman tele with the plum stained sides.

I stopped playing my 'dream guitar' (Equator Standard model) because it had a poly finish and it was never going to age. I played it for 10 years and it still looked like the day it came out of the case. That kinda bothered me.

I bought a R8, play it daily, sometimes out, and in 10 years or so, it will look like a guitar that has 5k hours on it... self reliced. I like the idea of earning the dings, and having something that tells a tale.

C


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

guitarman2 said:


> Good article on Fenders* highly controversial, *widely debated, relic guitars


Correct. You could also have added highly marketed.


----------



## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

"Its actually worth more now!"





C


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Correct. You could also have added highly marketed.


Captain obvious. Is that to state they don't highly market their non relic guitars?


----------



## Jimmy Fingers (Aug 17, 2017)

Meow! Lots of friction over a topic that is basically a personal preference. I like shiny new looking pristine well loved or soon to be well loved guitars. Others like the look of worn well loved guitars. All opinions are are valid and subjective. Less stressful to me or others if we accept that concept. 
My money my decision. Your money, your decision.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Jimmy Fingers said:


> Meow! Lots of friction over a topic that is basically a personal preference. I like shiny new looking pristine well loved or soon to be well loved guitars. Others like the look of worn well loved guitars. All opinions are are valid and subjective. Less stressful to me or others if we accept that concept.
> My money my decision. Your money, your decision.


Exactly right, and applying terms like posers to those who like them or haters to those who don’t doesn’t help.

I suppose posts could be found where I have done just that.

Not lately though.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Around 2 years on satin.

Satin is a good time. I would buy the right relic guitar, or satin model.


----------



## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Milkman said:


> “*Hey, I just bought this 68 Firebird *and it didn’t look rough enough so I dented the quarter panels, scraped up the paint and tore up the leather a bit.”, has been said by.....yeah probably nobody.


;-)


----------



## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

vadsy said:


> you sound like most of my ex's when I run into them at a party and they say theyre fine but they end up drinking too much and yelling at everyone before passing out next to the hot water tank


If that is the type of behaviour they are exhibiting I can see why you dumped them. But you really need to start dating classier guys. ;-)


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Rozz said:


> If that is the type of behaviour they are exhibiting I can see why you dumped them. But you really need to start dating classier guys. ;-)


I went through my fair share of guys, dudes and amigos,.. think I found the right one finally ...,


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Budda said:


> View attachment 272244
> 
> 
> Around 2 years on satin.
> ...


Now that's a big picking zone


----------



## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

vadsy said:


> I went through my fair share of guys, dudes and amigos,.. think I found the right one finally ...,


You deserve the best.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Rozz said:


> You deserve the best.


damn straight


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I've read a couple other forums that are embroiled in an "Aged Guitar" debate and the one analogy that keeps popping up is vintage cars. Or cars in general. How if you wouldn't want to drive around in a rusted out, banged up vintage car why would you want to play a beat up guitar?
I got thinking about just how silly this comparison is. If you're going to compare something at least compare something that is comparable.
Vintage cars or cars in general that are fully restored to factory mint increase in value. Take a vintage 52 telecaster thats seen many years on the road and banged up and restore it to the condition it was in when it left the factory and see what happens to the value. You can't compare.
On the other side if you bang up and artificially rust out a car it decreases in value. You could buy it for less. If you do that to a guitar it will cost you more to buy it.


----------



## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

I love the look and feel of vintage guitars. I can't afford vintage guitars. I don't own a relic but I do own some guitars that have become beat up by me over the years. If someone likes the look and feel and doesn't want to take 25 years to wear it in it themselves, buy a relic! Choose for yourself and don't give two fucks what other people think.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

guitarman2 said:


> I've read a couple other forums that are embroiled in an "Aged Guitar" debate and the one analogy that keeps popping up is vintage cars. Or cars in general. How if you wouldn't want to drive around in a rusted out, banged up vintage car why would you want to play a beat up guitar?
> I got thinking about just how silly this comparison is. If you're going to compare something at least compare something that is comparable.
> Vintage cars or cars in general that are fully restored to factory mint increase in value. *Take a vintage 52 telecaster thats seen many years on the road and banged up and restore it to the condition it was in when it left the factory* and see what happens to the value. You can't compare.
> On the other side if you bang up and artificially rust out a car it decreases in value. You could buy it for less. If you do that to a guitar it will cost you more to buy it.


Your point is valid as for a restored guitar but the OP is talking about relic'd guitars. That is a whole different ball of wax. 

One reasonable post said "your money, your choice" which is true. The only problem I would see with a relic guitar is if someone tried to pass it off as being a truly worn guitar that they have had for years. That is presenting something that is not true and I would want nothing to do with a person like that.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Your point is valid as for a restored guitar but the OP is talking about relic'd guitars. That is a whole different ball of wax.
> 
> One reasonable post said "your money, your choice" which is true. The only problem I would see with a relic guitar is if someone tried to pass it off as being a truly worn guitar that they have had for years. That is presenting something that is not true and I would want nothing to do with a person like that.


#1 You're talking about a person which has absolutely nothing to do with this subject. #2 If a person wanted to to fool someone they wouldn't spend several thousand dollars on a custom shop or several hundred on a road worn. They'd put together a partscaster with the cheapest of parts or try to pass off an overseas replica that cost very little. 
As for anyone that passes it off as legit at a gig to be cool. Well that doesn't harm anyone. Kinda like cheating at golf. Which many do. Of course that could bite you in the ass as someone might steal it thinking its worth tens of thousands.


----------



## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

I’ve seen a few of those guitars for sale, not so much a custom shop trying to be sold as a real vintage instrument. More so the partscaster stating they are custom shop relics. 

You can tell right away which I’m sure most people that are spending a few thousand can too. I wouldn’t want anything to do with those guys either.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

All this talk of relics, well for all you folks that think some of the heavy relics are too over done, here is a real aged guitar. Not artificial aged, the real deal. Its (or was) owned by a player I know and have gigged with. Haven't seen him for years so I have no idea if he still has it. Its a 60's guitar. 67 I think but not sure. He's a great player. Apparently spent more time playing than shining it up to look purty.

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


----------



## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

Not to get the relic feud going again but here’s one of those guys passing off a partscaster as real deal 59 custom shop relic. It’s pretty close right down to the neck plate serial #. It’s still a fake. He even shows in his add the real one he copied but I guess he’s to stupid to see that a 59 strat doesn’t have a 11 hole pickguard. Kluson deluxe tuners, no COA pic and a cheap fender tweed professional series case. 

Fender Custom Shop 1959 "Louise" Journeyman Stratocaster | Guitars | Oakville / Halton Region | Kijiji


----------



## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> ...one analogy that keeps popping up is vintage cars. Or cars in general. How if you wouldn't want to drive around in a rusted out, banged up vintage car why would you want to play a beat up guitar?


You obviously haven't driven one of these....


----------

