# Shed advice?



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I need to get a new garden shed. Our existing one is a wooden structure that has seen better days...a lot of them, and seems to have provided a handy burrow roof for a variety of varmints. It also blocks a potential entrance to the yard, and is so bloody dark I can never seem to find anything. So, I'm in the market for a new one.

My choices will be constrained by the measurement requirements. Because of the location of a major tree and a fence, I need something 8x6 or 10x6, with the door opening on the long side. Did the circuit today - Rona, Canadian Tire, Lowe's - but still need to hit HOme Depot, as well as see if there are any shed specialists in town.

The material used has an impact on the price bracket, but I have little sense of what the relative advantages and disadvantages of different shed materials, construction style, roof arrangements, etc., are. I also need to know more about what goes down first, before the shed. I spent a good chunk of the day carving up and removing a spruce hedge whose best days are behind it. I still need to remove more of the stumps and root structure, but I'll do that when my hands heal up a bit. But the point is that it will be installed over top of a former live hedge.

I'm open to suggestion. No particular bias other than wanting light, and wanting to save a bit of coin.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)




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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Not sure if this is of any help, but my grandmother had one of those pre-fab plastic sheds you can get at Canadian Tire, Walmart, ect (I don't know where she got hers).

The winter after she died the house was essentially vacant while we were cleaning out her house. There was a lot of snow that year, and by the time we realized we should have cleaned the snow off the roof, it was too late. The sheer weight had buckled the sides so it was now resembling a mushroom or Smurf house.

I guess what I'm saying is if you go plastic, keep an eye on the snow in the winter and don't let it pile up.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

not inclined to build one yourself? you could try this. 
ask around to people you know. see if any of them have a brother/cousin/friend who is a carpenter. see if they will do it on the side. there are also lots of kits you might consider.


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## AlBDarned (Jun 29, 2017)

If you're building a wooden platform to set it on, filling the frame up with gravel before attaching the pressure-treated plywood floor will help keep critters from moving in underneath. I'd get as much of the hedge roots etc out of there as possible & lay landscaping fabric down under the shed as well. If you want it well lit, you can dig a trench to it & bury a suitably rated power cable for lights/plugs.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> not inclined to build one yourself? you could try this.
> ask around to people you know. see if any of them have a brother/cousin/friend who is a carpenter. see if they will do it on the side. there are also lots of kits you might consider.


I take it this means your vote is for a wooden shed?


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I'll snap a photo of my old shed. I loved it. I miss the walk up to it.

The same company that put it together for me also sells bunkies. 

You can get one with an overhang so you can chill out and stare at your garden when it's raining blah blah blah. 

L

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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

What's a "bunkie"?


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

They're like tiny little rooms that you would add to Cottage or something that people can sleep in when there's overflow

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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

They're awesome.









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## Guest (Apr 30, 2018)

Costco has a huge selection. 
https://www.costco.ca/sheds.html

Be sure you leave room for some old fashioned woodshedding.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

mhammer said:


> I take it this means your vote is for a wooden shed?



well, i would build a metal one, but metal is what i do. if you want it on the cheap, wood is cheaper. and it's easier to find a carpenter than a sheetmetal worker.
but yeah, if i was building my own shed, i would pour a pad and build a metal shed


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2018)

echo post


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Do you need to have a building permit for a bunkie?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

adcandour said:


> They're like tiny little rooms that you would add to Cottage or something that people can sleep in when there's overflow


Okay. Gotcha. I gather they can almost serve as "granny flats". Big enough yard, but not really enough serviceable room out back for anything like that. As I say, 8x6 or 10x6. Some of those "bunkies" look awful nice, though. And it would mean my older son could move all his various tool-tables (saw, router, etc.) to something like that and give me back my garage.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Build it entirely out of Brazillian Rosewood. Imaging the tones contained within


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## Guest (May 1, 2018)

I would build it too. I have, for my brother, out of recycled lumber from people wanting their fences/decks/sheds torn down (kijiji).
If you're not comfortable with your skills, before hiring someone, check with your local high school's shop class.
Ask them if their students are interested in a project for credit?


butterknucket said:


> Do you need to have a building permit for a bunkie?


Not in Mark's case. Permits are required for anything over 100 sq ft (eg; 10 x 10).


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I bought a prefab/ They make it at their shop and then pull it partly apart. Then they bring it and install in the backyard a few weeks later. Takes the about 4 hours to setup. Custom shed custom colors. I added electrical later. 10 x12 deep low gable
Check kijiji for someplace like this in you area. 

Pricing | GrandRiverSheds.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

That's a nice one. From the looks of the other homes, I gather you're somewhere within walking distance of Gage park? Either there, or in Westdale.

I already built a playhouse "bunkie" for our younger son. Unfortunately, by the time it was complete, he was in high school and too tall to fit inside, so we use it to store patio furniture. As much as I love to make things, I would like for this exercise not to stretch out over two summers. I need to have something built and usable, so I can transfer all the stuff in the existing one in order to have the existing one empty and suitable for demolition before the end of the summer.

Apart from cost, what are the pros and cons of plastic, resin, wooden, and corrugated metal structures?

Is there any sort of advantage or disadvantage to having one that comes with a floor, as opposed to not having one?


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## Guest (May 1, 2018)

mhammer said:


> Is there any sort of advantage or disadvantage to having one that comes with a floor, as opposed to not having one?


If you go for a wood framed/plywood floor, do as mentioned earlier, gravel in the pockets (critters).
Or a patio stone floor?
Won't have to worry about the former bush roots pushing up.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Well, these guys make it look easy enough....sort of. It's a handsome structure, when done (and done right). I should be able to get my son to help me, I'll pop by tomorrow and see if I can get a quote. Apparently one of the available sizes is 10 x 6, which would be perfect. The joists are also great for hanging bikes.


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## Guest (May 1, 2018)

Bury heavy gauge small opening fence wire all around it to keep the burrowing critters from going under the floor.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)




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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

My old one would've been about the size you're after. Same thing as @knight_yyz except I had double doors for my tractor. One day I'll have one again.

I was even thinking that they'd make a great, cost effective poolhouse/bar thing. My neighbour spent a fortune to have one built when they could've had one of these for a fraction of the cost.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Set it up so you can build pedals in it.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)




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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

knight_yyz said:


> I bought a prefab/ They make it at their shop and then pull it partly apart. Then they bring it and install in the backyard a few weeks later. Takes the about 4 hours to setup. Custom shed custom colors. I added electrical later. 10 x12 deep low gable
> Check kijiji for someplace like this in you area.
> 
> Pricing | GrandRiverSheds.
> ...


Dumb question, but how do you add electrical?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

butterknucket said:


> Dumb question, but how do you add electrical?


Underground wires. Conduit.
Hire someone.


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## Guest (May 1, 2018)




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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

The tin sheds, even the "rated for snow load" ones, sag during the winter, sometimes not returning. They don't hold their looks either.

I like them built from wood with standard construction. It costs a bit more, but you get what you pay for. That is how I did my 12 x 20 shop. It sits on a base of ground contact rated pressure treated 6 x 6's which lay on a bed of 3/4 crush gravel. On the inside of the base I have a 3 foot perimeter of galvanised hardware cloth that I also threw some old sidewalk slabs on to hold it there. That makes it so critters don't get under it. The floor is insulated and framed with PT 2 x 10's plus blocking and then over the vapour barrier is 5/8 tongue and groove ply for the floor. Walls are 2 x 4 and I built my own rafters from 2 x 10's and 2 x 8 collar ties at mid span. 4/12 pitch shingled roof and the ceiling goes right to the collar ties, so my ceiling in the middle is just over 9'. I put in windows and built the insulated doors and I am close to finishing the insulation and interior sheathing, which I have been picking away at for a while now. The outside I sheathed with exterior OSB and put a sheet good wood exterior siding over that, which I stained. 

It takes a lot of time and effort and a bit of money to DIY it, but cheaper than a "shed guy", but they do it faster and with less effort. They have wooden shed builders all over the place, so if you need it faster with less effort go that route. It doesn't sound like you need all the window and insulation options I put in, but a window or 2 makes it much easier to see in there. Check the building codes, anything over 108 sq ft (I think) you need a permit for, even if it is a "kit" or built off site then transported.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Robert1950 said:


>


I knew I'd find this here...
First thing I thought of.

So be careful who you tell about getting a shed--and how you refer to it...


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Look around at the neighbour's sheds and see where and why they're failing.

Seven years ago we desperately required a shed due to concerns about storage and security after a tornado. I would have preferred to build my own but there wasn't time so we bought a prebuilt 12x8 wood shed (anything larger requires a building permit here), 2x4 framed, shingle roof, board & batten siding, and with some beafed up specs. I insisted on a roof ridge beam, bigger floor joists, extra exterior stain, and an upgraded door lock. In the intervening years I added another 3/4" layer of plywood glued and screwed to the floor to stiffen it up, a ground fault outlet, interior light and exterior motion detector lights wired to the house with the cable buried in the ground, shelves, stereo (speakers are under the deck roof), fridge, and a few overhead ceiling joists on which to store long things (and improve the construction...the builder left out collar beams). Except that winter winds still managed to blow snow through the board & batten, and around the door, it was reasonably sound. I caulked a lot of the board seams and stained the exterior 3 times...modern lumber is so wide grained, prone to splitting, and guzzles stain.

Still not satisfied, I had to make it more weather tight. Just yesterday my neighbour/contractor finished installing two replacement windows and a proper steel door, siding the exterior in vinyl (he also added some insulation board between the battens and wrapped the whole thing with Tyvek), and covered the fascia and window/door trim with aluminum. This thing will outlast me, and God knows I've dumped enough money into it for the purpose. It could double as a bunkie, and might have to someday.

At a minimum, weather tight, some hydro, and an awesome roof. If it's not on a concrete pad, get it up off the ground so that air can circulate underneath, floor rot is a definite risk. Mine's on 6 concrete blocks about 6 inches off the ground. Pressure treated lumber underneath.

Sheds made of wood can easily be modified according to use, some steel and plastic sheds not so much.

Oh yeah, and we positioned the shed beside the house to add privacy from the neighbours, kind of enclosing the side deck a bit (it's our outdoor living room half the year). It makes it very convenient.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Want a shed on steriods.... I built theses...no permit needed


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## Guest (May 1, 2018)

butterknucket said:


> Dumb question, but how do you add electrical?


@mhammer, if you're only concerned about lighting, you can always go solar.
Solar-Powered LED Shed Light


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## Guest (May 1, 2018)

shoretyus said:


> Want a shed on steriods.... I built theses...*no permit needed*


Love it!
However, check your community standards.
Out here, you can only go 15' high.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I tapped into the external wall plug in the back yard. Dug the ditch 18" deep from the house to the shed. Laid plastic conduit and waterproof wire. Everything is to code but not inspected. Filled in the ditch. Also added a double tube t5 fluorescent fixture and switch

On a side note, the reason i went with this particular company is a buddy of mine had his built by them. 10 years later it still looks new. Mine is 5 year's old now. Oh, and eastern white pine. Still smells new. LOL

@mhammer , you are correct. I'm 15 minute walk from Gage park


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

zontar said:


> I knew I'd find this here...
> First thing I thought of.
> 
> So be careful who you tell about getting a shed--and how you refer to it...


It was kind of inevitable that clip would show up. And until I get the existing one emptied into a new one, I will also be "two-sheds Hammer".


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

laristotle said:


> @mhammer, if you're only concerned about lighting, you can always go solar.
> Solar-Powered LED Shed Light


The lamp-post out front of our home has, like a number of them on the block, become non-functional. The electrical connection to the house has become lost in the mists of time. So I retrofitted the guts of one of those solar patio/garden lights inside the plastic globe on the top of the post. The white LED is not anywhere as bright as a bulb, but it is bright enough to be able to see the address number on the globe.

I certainly wouldn't require substantial illumination in the shed; just enough to be able to find things. I guess the $32 question is amount of sunlight available to the solar cell, given the planned loction of the shed, and the foliage on the other side of the fence. But thanks for the idea.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Stay on top of the snow, and I hear you can't beat the plastic sheds.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

mhammer said:


> The lamp-post out front of our home has, like a number of them on the block, become non-functional. The electrical connection to the house has become lost in the mists of time. So I retrofitted the guts of one of those solar patio/garden lights inside the plastic globe on the top of the post. The white LED is not anywhere as bright as a bulb, but it is bright enough to be able to see the address number on the globe.
> 
> I certainly wouldn't require substantial illumination in the shed; just enough to be able to find things. I guess the $32 question is amount of sunlight available to the solar cell, given the planned loction of the shed, and the foliage on the other side of the fence. But thanks for the idea.


There's always these from a dollar store.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

butterknucket said:


> Do you need to have a building permit for a bunkie?



In Ontario, only if it is over 100 sq. ft. I don't know if this applies to a plastic one that is over that size.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

you only need a permit if your neighbor's are assholes. Mine's oversize, no permit, neighbor's don't give a crap


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

knight_yyz said:


> you only need a permit if your neighbor's are assholes. Mine's oversize, no permit, neighbor's don't give a crap


Until you want to sell and the property search is done and it's found out no permit was pulled for the building. Then you could be in a difficult situation.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Well that's easily solved. Just die before your spouse.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)




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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Until you want to sell and the property search is done and it's found out no permit was pulled for the building. Then you could be in a difficult situation.


LMAO, My first house was built in 1930. The guy who did the inspection had someone working for the city. Guess how many permits had been issued to that address in 80 years? NONE.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Still thinking of adding a small skylight in lieu of additional electric lights.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Mooh said:


> Still thinking of adding a small skylight in lieu of additional electric lights.


I installed a skylight once. The people who lived upstairs hated it. (Steven Wright)


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

Checked kijiji?
Sometimes new and cheap


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks. Just checked. What showed up was what I had already scoped out online. But it was worth a try.


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## Guest (May 2, 2018)

mhammer said:


> Thanks. Just checked. What showed up was what I had already scoped out online. But it was worth a try.


Did you look at the pile of sheds Costco sells?


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)




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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

At first glance I thought the title of the thread was 'Shred advice'... I was like "Wow, Mark wants to shred??"


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Hah!  Any "shredding" I might do would be akin to this:






Though it would likely be closer to what I do when too many VISA and health claims forms pile up and I need to make space.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Hah!  Any "shredding" I might do would be akin to this:


Impressive!
I didn't know that you owned a violin.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

No. I just have the eye-shadow, and the ability to kick guitars while playing another one. I have to work on those violin skills a bit.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> No. I just have the eye-shadow...


Even more impressive than the violin!


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

mhammer said:


> Thanks. Just checked. What showed up was what I had already scoped out online. But it was worth a try.


I assume this was about the kijiji comment...if you aren't rushing to get the shed, stuff does pop up...also check out the free ad's, I've seen some nice stuff moving through there

just keep in mind...a Building Permit is required for sheds over 108sq-ft...and the zoning requirements would dictate how close to the property lines and other structures you can be...as well as overall height of the structure


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> In Ontario, only if it is over 100 sq. ft. I don't know if this applies to a plastic one that is over that size.


10sq-m or 108sq-ft...and yes to plastic;

From the Building Code Act..



> building” means,
> 
> (a) a structure occupying an area greater than ten square
> metres consisting of a wall, roof and floor or any
> ...


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

ezcomes said:


> 10sq-m or 108sq-ft...and yes to plastic;
> 
> From the Building Code Act..


I'm obviously a "yard" and not a "metre" man from the imperial days.

Although, as you pointed out, plastic sheds are part of the permit law, I don't know of anyone who bought a plastic oversized plastic shed, getting a permit.


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> Although, as you pointed out, plastic sheds are part of the permit law, I don't know of anyone who bought a plastic oversized plastic shed, getting a permit.


with that statement...I can't argue


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

knight_yyz said:


> you only need a permit if your neighbor's are assholes. Mine's oversize, no permit, neighbor's don't give a crap


Crappy part of that is if you end up with a douche neighbor that complains the city can make you tear it down.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

ezcomes said:


> 10sq-m or 108sq-ft...and yes to plastic;
> 
> From the Building Code Act..


Move to Halifax, 215 Square feet is the limit here


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

ezcomes said:


> with that statement...I can't argue


It's likely that they go up so quick, look good and most people don't even think about getting a permit for them. I would think the same thing applies to pre-build wooden sheds delivered to your property.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Chitmo said:


> Crappy part of that is if you end up with a douche neighbor that complains the city can make you tear it down.


Not if your neighbors are terrified of you. My neighbors all think we're crazy, so we get away with all kinds of shit. Two yards full of parts cars and trucks, and atvs, and piles of tires and rims. Nobody is willing to question the crazy hillbillies.

Plus they know of they anger us they'll lose their privileges to have their cars, lawnmowers, snowblowers, etc. fixed for free.


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## Guest (May 2, 2018)

cboutilier said:


> fixed for free


That's mighty generous.
My minimum wage is a case of beer or a bottle of bourbon. lol.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I won't have any neighbour issues, based on size. My maximum size would be maybe 60sq ft. My wife is pushing for less (8' x 5'), declaring that she wants more "open space".


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

mhammer said:


> I won't have any neighbour issues, based on size. My maximum size would be maybe 60sq ft. My wife is pushing for less (8' x 5'), declaring that she wants more "open space".


Sounds like she needs to start mowinf the open space.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

She does. It's a question of available spots to situate things where doors are accessible. We're not cramped, but there are a couple of trees that reduce the degrees of freedom.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

You need a theme song.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I was thinking more along the lines of this nugget from the old Global show: "Train 48". The only soap opera taking place on a GO Train. I still find it hard to think about sheds and NOT be reminded of Johnny McLaughlin's get rich scheme.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

cboutilier said:


> Not if your neighbors are terrified of you. My neighbors all think we're crazy, so we get away with all kinds of stuff. Two yards full of parts cars and trucks, and atvs, and piles of tires and rims. Nobody is willing to question the crazy hillbillies.
> 
> Plus they know of they anger us they'll lose their privileges to have their cars, lawnmowers, snowblowers, etc. fixed for free.


Mr. Boutilier, you are a real East Coaster.


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## Guest (May 4, 2018)

$200 off with free delivery until Sunday:










8' x 10' $1,199 til Sunday. (I get their emails and this showed up today...)

https://www.costco.ca/patio-offers.html?&EMID=CA_EN_2018_0504_HunterDouglas


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## Guest (May 4, 2018)

echo post


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## Guest (May 4, 2018)

$200 off with free delivery until Sunday:










8' x 10' $1,199 til Sunday. (I get their emails and this showed up today...)

https://www.costco.ca/patio-offers.html?&EMID=CA_EN_2018_0504_HunterDouglas


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

residential home construction sites have a lot of free materials laying around usually, you can probably grab some and build your own shed for virtually nothing, you might have to buy some screws or nails


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