# Advice Getting My Feet Wet In Recording



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I want to be able to record our jam sessions.

Here's how we're currently set up.

Guitar/bass>effects>board
Electronic drums>board
Mic(s)>board
Board>headphones

I'm not sure if it matters, but the board is non-powered, eventually requiring powered speakers. We'll eventually change the set-up to a little more traditional one, with only the mics/electronic drums going through the board but that's not in the near future.

We've been playing like this for a while now, and we get a surprisingly good sound. I particularly like the fact that everyone is hearing the same mix. There's no different mix depending on where you happen to be standing.

For now, I would like to be able to record the same signal that's going to the headphones. Mostly just so we can start recording all our jams/song ideas and have the opportunity to listen to them after the fact to identify the good and bad bits. I also want to be able to share the resulting file with band members via an email or something in a common format that won't require anyone to have a special program to listen. I'm thinking the easiest route for this would be a line out from the board to a computer. I assume all I would need is some kind of adapter, 1/4" to usb or whatever? Do I need special recording software for the computer?

In the future, I wouldn't mind being able to record separate tracks, so some product for hooking things up as above that would also be useful in a multi-track application wouldn't hurt.

I want to keep the costs as minimal as possible without being money thrown away for future applications.

Thanks in advance.

Note: I would also like to be able to record chord progressions/ideas on guitar direct to computer in a common file format for sharing purposes. I don't have access to the board set-up at home. What would I need? Again, minimal expense.


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## mister.zed (Jun 8, 2011)

Given the constraints you list, I am going to recommend a little piece of gear I bought and now cannot live without. It is something people might not consider in this case. It is the Zoom H2N handheld recorder. I got it for $100 used and they appear on Kijiji regularly. But even new, it won't break the bank ($200). 

It has a 1/8" input for recording what you hear in your headset (something you state in your post). It runs on AA batteries forever; no cords, useful anywhere. It has great sound quality, up to 96kHz at 24bits and can record .wav or .mp3 to save room. It uses SD card so space is not an issue. It is easy to set up with a thumb wheel for gain, and has a real time graph and LED so you can quickly set for no clipping. I even use it along with my better recording rig, just to get some different room ambiance sound. At the high sample rate, I can drop the .wav right in my DAW!

Best of all it has 4 great quality internal mics that allow stereo (2 channels), surround (in 4 channels!) or middle-side recording. This is great for acoustic or impromptu jams. Just stick it in the middle of the group and record everyone! 

But what I found I use it for the most is as a very quick and easy way to record ideas when they come (and it sounds way better than recording it into a cell phone). I have it nearby whenever I am playing. You can even set it to mp3 mode and record your entire 4h jam/songwriting session. Listen back at your leisure (i.e. in the car while commuting by burning an mp3 CD or using a thumb drive) and find the good bits that merit revisiting or expanding. 

This little tool alone has increased my songwriting productivity and enjoyment of making music immeasurably. I was surprised by how much listening back later improved my playing.

ps. I do not work for Zoom but they nailed it with this one. (Also, they make more expensive recorders, but for your needs and bang for buck, this is really the one you want.)


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I looked into the portable recorders a little bit. I can see how they would be helpful being able to record over air with the mics. How versatile are they recording for line in though?

The other consideration I have is, does that get me closer to being able to multi-track record, as opposed to say, spending a similar amount of dough on an interface which I could use for impromptu idea recording or jam session recording? I already have access to several computers and there seems to be lots of free recording/editing software available. Is file size and the ability to email it different with a portable unit like you suggest than it would be recorded directly to computer via an interface? Due to the fact that, at this time, we never play open air and I don't even own an acoustic, I'm not sure mics in a portable unit are required. My guitar amps also have a line out, although I've never used them.

Another consideration that occurred to me. It would be nice to be able to save a small portion of a recording while deleting the rest. For example, if I was recording a 1 hour set but only wanted to keep one song if there was something I liked about it that I wanted to analyze and attempt reproduce the next time we played it.

Forgive me if some of this seems elementary. I'm really quite clueless when it comes to these things. Thanks again for your input and patience.


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## mister.zed (Jun 8, 2011)

You make good points. But I often rely on the instant availability of the handheld recorder. I am frequently loath to power up my computer, DAW, place mics, route cables, check levels, hit keys. End result: no recording, lost ideas.

But if you want to get an audio interface, my recommendation is the Roland Quad-Capture, or Octa-Capture if you can afford it. I've tried a few different makes, and I like how these just work well, and sound great. Good feature set and built very well. I wouldn't be surprised if these have great on-line reviews. I use the Quad-Capture with Ableton Live. Plus they are USB so you can switch to a laptop, or a budddy's computer without too much fuss.

As for keeping just parts of recordings, I don't know any way of doing this in a simple of semi-automated manner. Just open the files in a DAW and snip snip.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Can a portable recorder be used as an interface? I have an Iphone, can that Irig thingy be used in a similar manner, is it a one trick pony?


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## mister.zed (Jun 8, 2011)

The Zoom can't; don't know about others. Probably not.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Where to start? There are so many choices, and it is easy to become overwhelmed.

As mister.zed said the easiest route is to use a simple two track device that you attach to a stand, hit record and not capture "the room". This may take a little trial and error to place for a good mix of all of the elements. Most of these devices allow you to record in mp3 format that you can capture in your computer later and distribute as needed.

Editing those files will require software, and there are dozens of options from free to insane. A free editor (Audacity, Waveosaur) have as many features as you will ever need for your purpose.

If you want to get into multi track recording, allowing a lot more in the way of editing and arranging options, the hit to the pocket book grows exponentially. For the same money as a small portable recorder you can buy a very good 4 input soundcard. Some can be scaled later as you need more tracks by adding additional mic inputs via ADAT or SPDIF, but like all things computer related, every additional option is going to cost. Most will come with a "lite" version of software, hoping you get hooked and buy the more advanced version later.

Going the more expansive route I would suggest Reaper as a software choice. It is easily the best bargain in the DAW universe ($60) and is powerful enough for beginners to pro scoring rigs. I have all of the top DAWS on my system and Reaper is used 95% of the time.

If you approach recording as you would learning to play another instrument (dedicating the study/practice time and resources to learn) you will stand a chance having a good time doing it.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

> Can a portable recorder be used as an interface?



Yes, some can.



> I have an Iphone, can that Irig thingy be used in a similar manner, is it a one trick pony?


Iphones are great devices for capturing simple, two track recordings. You could use the internal microphone or attach any cc compliant device. 

"editing for clarification".... it seems I may not have been entirely correct about iphones and class compliant devices. iPads will work, with appropriate connectors, but you need a newer iPhone that has been "jail broke" to work in cc mode. 

Sorry...


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

I've been wanting to get into recording a bit as well.

Ronmac, whats your thoughts on getting an old digi 002 rack. 
They can be had cheaply, 150-200. 8 inputs but mediocre preamps.
I saw a digi 003 for 350, only 4 inputs but better pre's. I wasnt really ready to pull the trigger on it though.

I have a friend who is good with protools and I have used it at his place when we're collaborating.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Moosehead said:


> I've been wanting to get into recording a bit as well.
> 
> Ronmac, whats your thoughts on getting an old digi 002 rack.
> They can be had cheaply, 150-200. 8 inputs but mediocre preamps.
> ...


I don't have any direct experience, but the Digi stuff doesn't have a good reputation. The quality (mic preamps, AD/DA conversion) and features (lower latency drivers, monitoring effects) of new machines have really stepped up in the last few years, so the same money you quoted would buy a much better product now, imo. eg. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UR44 

When selecting an interface it is a good idea to think about what you want it to do for you right away AND what you think you might want to do in the next few years. You may not need midi or the ability to add an ADAT preamp today, but ....

As always, buy the best that you can afford because you really do get what you pay for and make sure the product company has a good reputation for providing stable, up to date drivers. Actually the number one spec for me is driver quality.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

My buddy brought in a Panasonic recorder that you can do line in. So that could accommodate you board. I played with it a bit. It was easy to copy the track into Reaper. No interface required. 
If you had an interface you could record the room on the recorder the put it into the computer. With some kind of interface you could either add to the recorder tracks or have a real good scratch track to work from. Depending on the quality of the recorder track. You probably won't be able to edit it that to much with out a whole lot of work. 

I have one of these... awesome . To bad this one is in TBay. They do it all. Midi, output sends . They will stand alone as a mixer as well. 
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-pro-audio-re...ce/1057106784?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


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## Beatles (Feb 7, 2006)

I've had my Zoom R16 for a few months now and would suggest you look into it. It can be used as a stand alone recorder (it has built in mics) or as a multi track recorder (it has 16 tracks and 8XLR inputs) and you can record 8 tracks at the same time. It can also be used as an interface. Its fairly reasonably priced. I paid $400 new. My jamming setup is the same as what you have described, I have my electronic drums plugged into the Zoom, bass, guitar, and a couple of mics. I run the headphone line out into a four channel headphone distibution amp (paid twenty bucks for it) so basically I am use it as a glorified mixer for jamming. I do use it for recording all the time, and I collaborate with another friend who also has the Zoom R16 and we share the tracks over the net. For editing, I use Audacity which is free.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Yeah, $400 just isn't in the budget. I was kinda hoping to find a $100 - $200 solution. I certainly prefer buying used and there's no rush.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

mister.zed said:


> The Zoom can't; don't know about others. Probably not.





JBFairthorne said:


> Can a portable recorder be used as an interface? I have an Iphone, can that Irig thingy be used in a similar manner, is it a one trick pony?


I believe the H4n can. I just bought one and I think I read that in the instructions. If you want I can check and let you know.

- - - Updated - - -



JBFairthorne said:


> Yeah, $400 just isn't in the budget. I was kinda hoping to find a $100 - $200 solution. I certainly prefer buying used and there's no rush.


Go with a used Zoom if you can find one in that price range.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

Do you have an ipad? If so the 35 dollar camera connection kit and a cheap 1 or 2 channel USB interface will capture a mono mix quite nicely. Simply plug a monitor out cable from your board to the interface, record the same as old tape recorders did. Easy. There are garageband and "Tape" by Focusrite as free recording apps. All in less than 200 bucks ,less if you buy a used interface. My Art Dual USB works well with the iPad and they are cheap used.

FWIW I only started recording using the iPad 2 days ago, but it is really easy and I'm getting results as good as or better than using a laptop with Reaper. There's less functionality of course, but thats liberating for songwriting.

Oh yeah, storage can be an issue, but there is free iCloud storage and other cloud services can also be used.

http://artproaudio.com/art_products/signal_processing/usb_audio_devices/product/usb_dual_pre_ps

I don't know if your irig can be used similarly, but I bet it can.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

I got one for $220. Killer machines. Ongmboard stereo mics are VG too. 




Beatles said:


> I've had my Zoom R16 for a few months now and would suggest you look into it. It can be used as a stand alone recorder (it has built in mics) or as a multi track recorder (it has 16 tracks and 8XLR inputs) and you can record 8 tracks at the same time. It can also be used as an interface. Its fairly reasonably priced. I paid $400 new. My jamming setup is the same as what you have described, I have my electronic drums plugged into the Zoom, bass, guitar, and a couple of mics. I run the headphone line out into a four channel headphone distibution amp (paid twenty bucks for it) so basically I am use it as a glorified mixer for jamming. I do use it for recording all the time, and I collaborate with another friend who also has the Zoom R16 and we share the tracks over the net. For editing, I use Audacity which is free.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

I'm experimenting with my iPad/iPhone and an iRig Microphone Preamp. I have an Audio Technica microphone and am trying out Garageband and another free program. I'm able to record but not getting great results yet. I think it has more to do with the software and clipping then the equipment at this point. I'll be following this thread.



mrmatt1972 said:


> Do you have an ipad? If so the 35 dollar camera connection kit and a cheap 1 or 2 channel USB interface will capture a mono mix quite nicely. Simply plug a monitor out cable from your board to the interface, record the same as old tape recorders did. Easy. There are garageband and "Tape" by Focusrite as free recording apps. All in less than 200 bucks ,less if you buy a used interface. My Art Dual USB works well with the iPad and they are cheap used.
> 
> FWIW I only started recording using the iPad 2 days ago, but it is really easy and I'm getting results as good as or better than using a laptop with Reaper. There's less functionality of course, but thats liberating for songwriting.
> 
> ...


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I also saw the garage band on iphone apps. Let me know how it works out for you with some practice. What it can and can't do.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

I've been experimenting a bit trying to record my Phaez amp. I'm using an Audio Technica ST95 Mark II dynamic mic into an iRig PRE microphone preamp into my iPhone. I've tried Garageband and the iRig Recording software. Garageband works well but I don't know all of the ins and outs so I end up just recording clips - which is annoying. iRig works pretty well but I will also try out Audacity with my Mac in the near future. So far the results have been pretty good. Not great since I only have one mic. But it's starting to sound like a far representation of the amp. 

Gonna keep trying to perfect the process and work on my chops before the final recording!


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