# Question: Les Paul--the "Good" Years?



## JethroTech (Dec 8, 2015)

I'm looking to add a decent Les Paul to my collection but I'm wondering just what years are considered the "Good" years? My budget is about $2,500 so that definitely rules out the 50s, 60s and the Custom Shop. If possible I'd like to find a 70s, 80s or even 90s LP. Why? Because I like a guitar that comes with built-in mojo 

I understand that there are dud guitars from every era, but if I'm buying long distance and can't try before I buy, are there some that I should avoid and some that I shouldn't hesitate to buy? Thanks in advance.


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

This should be an entertaining thread. GO!


----------



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

Yeah, its a tough one. Plus, there are not a lot out there from the 80's or 90's. 
If you don't mind new, I have read up a lot on the subject, and there is some evidence out there that the newer Traditional's are some of the best Lesters ever made.

If I was in your situation, I would look for a LP classic from the early 90's. They are supposed to be very good copies of the '60LP. They sell for around 1500-2000$. 

I'm with you, I like my guitars broken in already. I have had several newer LP's and they are great guitars, but have no character.


----------



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

1987 Gibson Les Paul Standard | guitars | Edmonton | Kijiji

This one looks cool, really good deal if it has the original Shaws.
Are you set on Gibson? Tokai, Burny, Ibanez are just as good IMHO


----------



## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

You may be able to "squeeze" in a Custom Shop at that price point. The 2012's have a stigma about them due to the laminate fretboard. I've owned two CS' from that year and they were excellent guitars. Gibson did a lot of tweaks to the CS LP's starting in 2009 and a guitar after that year should be decent at the least. You may be able to get great value in the years 2009-2012.

There was a lot of internet fodder about the quality of mahogany in 2007 but not sure how accurate that is.

If you can get seek out a good dealer rep. that will be a good start as well.

Good luck in your search


----------



## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

The 1960 Classic's are well liked. There are particular years that are preferred (90's). I'm pretty sure the 'best years' according to the internet are the years that they made the classic with the nicest looking inlays. Some are very greenish.

I have a 2012 Studio with a baked maple board. It's a great guitar, and that flies in the face of the rumours that 2012 is a bad year (due to their rosewood being confiscated). So knowing that, I would never be particular about what year an LP was made - with exception to 2015. And I only select against 2015 because I don't like the wide asymmetrical neck shape.


----------



## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Grab the goldtop for sale on here for $1950 and call'er done.


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

That one capn linked on Kijiji, the case alone is worth $$. If I were in the market, I'd go check it out.

I forget your neck profile preference G, but keep in mind the Classics have a thin front-to-back, and relatively narrow at the nut profile. Also watch out for weight, I had a GREAT sounding and playing Classic, but it was a boat anchor.


----------



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

There is also an XR-2 for sale in the Classifieds. I had one of those many years ago and its still one of the best guitars I have ever owned/played. Out of approx. 500 guitars I have owned, its probably in the top ten.


----------



## JethroTech (Dec 8, 2015)

keto said:


> That one capn linked on Kijiji, the case alone is worth $$. If I were in the market, I'd go check it out.
> 
> I forget your neck profile preference G, but keep in mind the Classics have a thin front-to-back, and relatively narrow at the nut profile. Also watch out for weight, I had a GREAT sounding and playing Classic, but it was a boat anchor.


Tons of great info already. Thank you.

Keto, I looked into that one here on Edmonton Kijiji about a week and a half ago and I got a bad feeling about it so I bailed out. It could be perfectly legit but from my experience there were a couple of red flags in the exchange of messages.


----------



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

JethroTech said:


> Tons of great info already. Thank you.
> 
> Keto, I looked into that one here on Edmonton Kijiji about a week and a half ago and I got a bad feeling about it so I bailed out. It could be perfectly legit but the person responded to my message about it saying that someone was on their way to look at it but he'd hold it for me if I sent a deposit. Again, it could be legit, but from my experience it was a bit of a flag.


I just looked at the ad again, and I'm pretty sure its a scam. I have been seeing a lot of ads lately on Kijiji that are just a bit too good to be true. I just noticed, he joined in Aug 2017.
But you never know. I would try to call him and speak in person.


----------



## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

capnjim said:


> If I was in your situation, I would look for a LP classic from the early 90's. They are supposed to be very good copies of the '60LP. They sell for around 1500-2000$.
> .


I'll second that. I used to have a 91 all gold Classic and it was a great guitar. Only problem for me was the 60s neck....I just can't get comfortable playing them Soundwise, it was amazing


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

G, you edited your post and I'm not sure why, but I can see what was originally written, in capn's quote of your statement. 100% a scam, you never ever send a deposit on a kijiji transaction. Good call.


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

Basically for LP's, generally 70's are complete shite, and early 80s are pretty bad as well. 
There are some good ones during those years but not many.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The back cover of the current issue of _Vintage Guitar_ (which itself has a few articles about the LP) has an ad for Sam Ash with a dozen bursts of varyingcolour schemes shown. But beside each burst is the weight. They range from 8lbs/6.4oz to 9lbs/1.5oz., with many in between those extremes.

There is variation in Les Pauls, even beyond the specific years. Find one with a weight, tone, appearance, and price you like, and be done with it.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I'm not that knowledgeable in this department, due to memory. 

However, I have a mental sticky that reminds me 1994 and 2004 we're the best playing years for me. I've played countless lps on my searches with a fairly good budget, and those years still outperformed.


Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I'd look for an Japanese Orville or Burny, you won't regret it


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I scored a used CR8 (chambered), I think it's a '10 or '11 for $2200 at L&M, so don't rule out a CS.
That was through a forum member, I would've never known about it otherwise.

I had an '07 Standard GOTW (guitar of the week) and as nice a guitar that was, the CR8 is just better.
I paid around two grand shipped for that, I believe.

I had a few MIJ LPs too, there are some nice units out there, for sure.


----------



## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

sulphur said:


> I scored a used CR8 (chambered), I think it's a '10 or '11 for $2200 at L&M, so don't rule out a CS.
> That was through a forum member, I would've never known about it otherwise.
> 
> I had an '07 Standard GOTW (guitar of the week) and as nice a guitar that was, the CR8 is just better.
> ...


Those chambered R8s are really nice. Seems like you got a good deal


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Scottone said:


> Those chambered R8s are really nice. Seems like you got a good deal


I sure feel that way, the guitar is in terrific shape, some tarnish on the hardware, that's about it.
My thought on it was that maybe they're poopooed by the purists, not sure, but I'm a happy camper.
I can't imagine what they gave the guy to sell it for that price.

That guitar weighs roughly what a Junior does, I'm good with that.


----------



## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

sulphur said:


> I sure feel that way, the guitar is in terrific shape, some tarnish on the hardware, that's about it.
> My thought on it was that maybe they're poopooed by the purists, not sure, but I'm a happy camper.
> I can't imagine what they gave the guy to sell it for that price.
> 
> That guitar weighs roughly what a Junior does, I'm good with that.


Thats probably true...a lot of Les Paul guys turn their nose up at chambered versions. I like them for both the lighter weight and tone.

My MotorAve McQueen is chambered and weighs in at about 7 lbs or so...perfect weight for me


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

My #1 is still my '93 STD that I've had since '93. It's not light and I went through a few pairs of aftermarket pups over the years, eventually settling on a WCR Darkburst/Godwood set. Great guitar.


----------



## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

@pckpat was selling a couple of MIJ Elitist LPs on here for under a grand. If you can get past the slightly different headstock shape, you get CS specs (i.e. long neck tenon, non-chambered body & proper maple cap) at a fraction of the cost. FWIW I've played both of Pat's guitars & they were quite nice, although the one with the ding played & sounded better IMO.

Avoid anything with a PCB instead of pots & caps, anything close to 10 lbs., any of the modern chambering (CS8s & ES LPs excepted).

IF I had to buy a Lester sight unseen, I'd look for one without any weight relief that tipped the scales at a 8.5-9 lbs. IME the chambered guitars lack balls & the heavy ones sounded muddy.

With your budgetI'd either wait for a used Gold/plain top CS or buy MIJ or Heritage, save a few shekels & live with the headstock.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

For $2500.00 you could get pretty much get a custom if you weren't concerned about the name of the headstock. Do you want the best player or do you want something you may sell or trade later on? I think that is the decision you have to make.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Steadly he already said he wants a gibson LP...

OP, go try all the ones at your nearest gibson dealers. Play all the ones at the used shops. If you have friends who own some, play theirs. Pick the one you like the most. Dont sweat years and all that, play some guitars and pick your favourite.


----------



## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

I have several Gibsons with PCB boards. It's a non issue as far as I am concerned. I guess it's that it isn't the traditional way. 
As for the CR8, if anyone sees one for $2200 again, message me and I'll buy it in a flash!!!! What a great deal you got @sulpher!!! I think that the weight relieved LP's are the best ones because they are easy on the back.


----------



## JethroTech (Dec 8, 2015)

First of all, thanks for all the great suggestions. A couple of people have mentioned MIJ copies. I do already have an incredible Japanese-made Edwards '56 Goldtop with P90s. (See pic) It is one of the finest quality MIJ guitars I have ever owned. Long tenon, one-piece back, etc., but I'm looking to scratch that authentic Gibson LP itch I've had since I was a boy

I also have a 2012 LP Traditional 'burst that was previously owned by a couple of respected members on this board. Visually, it's a beautiful guitar but I just can't get used to the satin neck. I like a slicker, glossy back on my necks.

Basically, I'm looking for a 'forever' LP that looks like the LPs I grew up admiring: humbuckers, battle scars and 'Gibson' on the headstock. I won't stop sampling the other LPs (the MIJs are killer) but right now I'm after the real thing. Thanks again for all the info, I really appreciate it.


----------



## StratCat (Dec 30, 2013)

Keep checking Capsule Music website. 

Capsule Music [Retail Guitar List]

They are in Toronto and will have what you are looking for sooner or later.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I love it when all these internet experts come and say "weight relieved is bad" or "70's and 80's were all crap". Just spreading (or would that be retweeting) so much bullshit to be 'part of the in crowd'. LOL

Like they've played every weight relieved or 70s/80s guitar out there. Not to mention they are saying that people like Blackmore and Rhodes didn't know anything about guitars, not like _they_ do! 

Absolutes usually make people using them sound like absolute morons.


There were good guitars in every era, bad guitars, too. Even the illustrious 50s (insert 'shock and horror meme' here). And (more shock and horror), not all of those Japanese copies were perfect guitars, either. I've played a few dud lawsuit guitars. Usually good bang for the buck, but not always. Generalizations and absolutes make for some good deals out there, though, if you use your hands and ears instead of your browser.


----------



## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

I've said it before, many times in fact, but it may bear repeating here. I'm partial to the Shaw-era instruments. I've owned many Gibson models from many different periods and the ones that _consistently_ stood out - not a single exception thus far - were built '83 - '86. Obviously I haven't tried every LP in existence from that period but it seems improbable that, by chance alone, every example I've encountered would be exceptional...


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

Roryfan said:


> @pckpat was selling a couple of MIJ Elitist LPs on here for under a grand. If you can get past the slightly different headstock shape, you get CS specs (i.e. long neck tenon, non-chambered body & proper maple cap) at a fraction of the cost. FWIW I've played both of Pat's guitars & they were quite nice, although the one with the ding played & sounded better IMO.
> 
> Avoid anything with a PCB instead of pots & caps, anything close to 10 lbs., any of the modern chambering (CS8s & ES LPs excepted).
> 
> ...


Why avoid the PCB ones?


High/Deaf said:


> I love it when all these internet experts come and say "weight relieved is bad" or "70's and 80's were all crap". Just spreading (or would that be retweeting) so much bullshit to be 'part of the in crowd'. LOL
> 
> Like they've played every weight relieved or 70s/80s guitar out there. Not to mention they are saying that people like Blackmore and Rhodes didn't know anything about guitars, not like _they_ do!
> 
> ...


Reading comprehension man. Would do you wonders


----------



## Norman231 (May 5, 2014)

See, JethroT, you thought you were asking a simple question, but a scrap broke out anyway! 
Guitar players are a feisty bunch, eh?!! 










Are you looking for another goldtop that you can put beside your Edwards (which is very pretty, btw)?


----------



## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> I love it when all these internet experts come and say "weight relieved is bad" or "70's and 80's were all crap". Just spreading (or would that be retweeting) so much bullshit to be 'part of the in crowd'. LOL
> 
> Like they've played every weight relieved or 70s/80s guitar out there. Not to mention they are saying that people like Blackmore and Rhodes didn't know anything about guitars, not like _they_ do!
> 
> ...



Darn it...now i am going to have to sell my 82 Custom, because it was a bad year...lol



http://imgur.com/kylW621


----------



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

Rick31797 said:


> Darn it...now i am going to have to sell my 82 Custom, because it was a bad year...lol
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/kylW621


I can tell its a dog just by looking at it, I will be more than generous and offer 842$ for it.


----------



## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

Rick31797 said:


> Darn it...now i am going to have to sell my 82 Custom, because it was a bad year...lol
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/kylW621


(adopts grizzled Southern accent and rubs chin).. "She shore is purdy....."


----------



## JethroTech (Dec 8, 2015)

Norman231 said:


> See, JethroT, you thought you were asking a simple question, but a scrap broke out anyway!
> Guitar players are a feisty bunch, eh?!!


I didn't mean to cause problems. Haha  I've owned several Custom Shop LPs in the past couple of years but I always felt like they were too precious to play so they never came out of their cases. Then I started sampling MIJ copies and a couple have really made me question whether a person _needs_ to spend thousands of dollars on a guitar. But the long and the short of it is that I want a 'real' Les Paul from my musical sweet-spot, the era when I was really doing the bulk of my music discovery: the late-70s, 80s and early 90s. 

I live in Edmonton. Despite being a fairly populated part of Western Canada, LPs from that era just don't seem to pop up all the time so it's just not possible to try many before I buy, hence the reason for my original question. Thanks for all the input though. This forum is a fantastic resource.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Road trip. Guitar safari.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Budda said:


> Steadly he already said he wants a gibson LP....


Yes, I know. However, some people still don't realize what you can get if you look outside the "box" so that is why I made that suggestion. The OP can make up his mind if he wants the best guitar he can get for his money or if he wants a specific brand.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Yes, I know. However, some people still don't realize what you can get if you look outside the "box" so that is why I made that suggestion. The OP can make up his mind if he wants the best guitar he can get for his money or if he wants a specific brand.


I think you're really close to swaying the OP, Steadly. You should make another push for Agile or some other random thing he didn't ask for.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

vadsy said:


> I think you're really close to swaying the OP, Steadly. You should make another push for Agile or some other random thing he didn't ask for.


Remember, this is the guy that didn't know about the Katana 1.5 years after it was released. If you never go into a store, I guess every webpage is an adventure.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Rick31797 said:


> Darn it...now i am going to have to sell my 82 Custom, because it was a bad year...lol
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/kylW621


Yea, maybe that's why people keep telling me that '77 was a bad year. They're just trying to buy it for $842. 










BTW, very nice '82. The burst makes the carve really stand out.


----------



## Norman231 (May 5, 2014)

JethroTech said:


> I didn't mean to cause problems. Haha  I've owned several Custom Shop LPs in the past couple of years but I always felt like they were too precious to play so they never came out of their cases. Then I started sampling MIJ copies and a couple have really made me question whether a person _needs_ to spend thousands of dollars on a guitar. But the long and the short of it is that I want a 'real' Les Paul from my musical sweet-spot, the era when I was really doing the bulk of my music discovery: the late-70s, 80s and early 90s.
> 
> I live in Edmonton. Despite being a fairly populated part of Western Canada, LPs from that era just don't seem to pop up all the time so it's just not possible to try many before I buy, hence the reason for my original question. Thanks for all the input though. This forum is a fantastic resource.


Clearly, you're a trouble-maker who likes to stir it up  
FWIW, I think getting a Gibson with "battle scars" makes perfect sense. You've already got the "copies" that play super sweet, so why not get a Gibson (that you're not afraid to bang up) so you can contrast and compare it with the MIJ's during those looonnnnnggggg winter nights in Edmonton when McJesus and Draisaitl aren't on TV. (I lived there for five years... Awesome people, great neighbours, but far too little sunshine during the winter months. My god.... pitch black when I left for work, and pitch black when I drove home. )


----------



## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

TDeneka said:


> Why avoid the PCB ones?


You're stuck with the stock pickups or whatever other models Gibson offers with a plug-in connection.

P.S. Not sure if I was one of the "internet experts" that an arrow was thrown at, just sharing a few things that I've observed about the Lesters I've owned a played over the last 15 yrs. The common thread in the very best sounding guitars was a chunky neck with a long tenon & solid body with a weight <9 lbs. 

Pots, caps & pickups are an easy swap, find a resonant guitar & go from there. Since the belly test is hard to do from a distance, looking for the above specs will give you a better chance of success.

FWIW the 2 weight-relieved LPs I owned ('05 Std Faded & '08 Std) were lacking in balls vs. lightweight non-chambered guitars. Both guitars had upgraded harness, pups & bridges, which definitely helped but there was still something missing in the lower end. A pair of early Classics I owned were better, but 10 lbs. & a skinny neck didn't cut it for me.

Re: years, plan to swap out the harness on any pre-'09 CS guitar, the taper is absolutely useless: stays dirty from 10-3, cleaner but muddy from 3-2, shuts off after 2. Burstbuckers also improved greatly around that same time period.


----------



## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Roryfan said:


> Re: years, plan to swap out the harness on any pre-'09 CS guitar, the taper is absolutely useless: stays dirty from 10-3, cleaner but muddy from 3-2, shuts off after 2. Burstbuckers also improved greatly around that same time period.


That was my experience as well. It seems that 2009 and after, good improvements were made in the electronics. I've owned good LP's prior to '09 as well but the models after '09 seemed a bit more consistent and an improvement in the electronics.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Roryfan said:


> You're stuck with the stock pickups or whatever other models Gibson offers with a plug-in connection.
> 
> P.S. Not sure if I was one of the "internet experts" that an arrow was thrown at, just sharing a few things that I've observed about the Lesters I've owned a played over the last 15 yrs. The common thread in the very best sounding guitars was a chunky neck with a long tenon & solid body with a weight <9 lbs.
> 
> ...


I haven't played a weight relieved LP that I like as much as the solid ones I've played either. But I haven't played enough to damn them all to hell, and we all play and hear differently. So if someone else finds cored-out LP's to their liking, I can live with that. It doesn't change what I do and don't like.

I don't think you are the 'absolute type' either, so the arrow wasn't aimed at you, just the ones who seem to claim omniscience. 

The PCB's are limiting but I understand it from a production POV. I only have one guitar with that tech - my P90 SG - and I'm happy with the pups so it isn't an issue yet. I'm too lazy to fix what isn't broken. I hardly get around to fixing what is broken.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

PCB's are a none issue if I like the guitar. It's a simple matter to rip it out and put some good stuff in there.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

davetcan said:


> PCB's are a none issue if I like the guitar. It's a simple matter to rip it out and put some good stuff in there.


Dave is wise.


----------



## Guest (Aug 31, 2017)

PCB's are no big deal, IMO.
I picked up a used setup with 490r and 498t pups to swap into a MIJ LP.
I had to cut up the board at one corner because the pot shafts didn't line up.
Soldered jump wires in place.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Budda said:


> Dave is wise.


Not really, but he does have a soldering iron


----------



## Ronbeast (Nov 11, 2008)

I've got two Gibsons with pcbs and don't find anything inherently different or off sounding, it's just inconvenient for frequent pickup swappers as others have noted. Luckily I like the stock pickups in both of mine. 

If the guitars have pcbs in them, I'd prefer to try before I buy and see if I really connect with the instrument; it would suck to have to change your pickups and wiring harness immediately after buying a guitar.

I've only played a relatively small number of each decade of les Paul's, and admittedly no '50s or early '60s golden age instruments, but I've found quite a few from the 80s and 90s that were everything I'd want and expect from a good les paul; unfortunately what I would expect may be very different from what you desire. I'd go so far as to just say: play every one you can get your hands on and then decide. Generic answer, I know, but sometimes that's the best you can do.

Happy hunting!


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

Roryfan said:


> You're stuck with the stock pickups or whatever other models Gibson offers with a plug-in connection.
> 
> P.S. Not sure if I was one of the "internet experts" that an arrow was thrown at, just sharing a few things that I've observed about the Lesters I've owned a played over the last 15 yrs. The common thread in the very best sounding guitars was a chunky neck with a long tenon & solid body with a weight <9 lbs.
> 
> ...


That isn't correct at all. You can solder directly to the pcb. 
When I owned a 2011 SG, I infact did that.


----------



## Fuzzy dagger (Jun 3, 2016)

I've got gibbys from several decades and I love them all (+1 for the shaws). I like that they all feel more or less the same. Not just the scale length, but they are solid and well built. Neck size is the only variable. You have to decide if you like 60's or 50's, thin or wide at the nut, satin or gloss. All the hardware can be changed. I haven't changed any hardware on my axes because I don't need to. I've also never bought a new guitar because I can't afford to and I've found everything I need used. I once waited a year and a half till I found a Les Paul Special DC. It was from a guy a few blocks away, and at a very good price. Good luck.


----------



## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

mhammer said:


> There is variation in Les Pauls, even beyond the specific years. Find one with a weight, tone, appearance, and price you like, and be done with it.


+1

I was invited to a Les Paul shootout a couple of years ago & of the 2 dozen or so guitars present were a pair of Bloomfields that were only 2 S/N apart. Despite having likely left the factory on the same day they could not have sounded more different. Mine was full & round with a reedy tone from the neck pickup whereas the other guitar had a "Tele on steroids" vibe. After much deliberation about which one was "better" a mistrial was declared due to a hung jury. Then we drank beer & played more Les Pauls.

Another time I had my eye on a Norlin-era Custom & brought Bloomy along to compare. In theory the guitar with the ebony board & maple neck should have been much brighter but it sounded muddy & muffled in comparison. C'est la vie say the old folks just goes to show you never can tell.

If at all possible play before you buy, play many, make sure you play them all unplugged first & buy the one that speaks to you. FWIW I was actually planning to buy a player's grade '59 Esquire & walked out with Bloomy instead, which quickly became my desert-island axe.


----------



## NorlinNorm (Dec 31, 2016)

TDeneka said:


> Basically for LP's, generally 70's are complete shite, and early 80s are pretty bad as well.
> There are some good ones during those years but not many.


Oh Really, just how many of the 1970's LP's have you played???
It really cracks me up when I read such ridiculous statements...I guess Jimmy Page, Randy Rhoads, Brian Robertson, Scott Gorham, The Edge, Angus Young, Alex Lifeson, Al DiMeola
Even Les Paul himself played a 70's, Gibson
And Much more...............


----------



## NorlinNorm (Dec 31, 2016)

Oh No, now I have to sell my 76 LPC because a guy on this forum said all 1970's are crap (shite).....
Damn, if I only had read more information on the internet before I bought it!


----------



## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

NorlinNorm said:


> Oh No, now I have to sell my 76 LPC because a guy on this forum said all 1970's are crap (shite).....
> Damn, if I only had read more information on the internet before I bought it!


You would've also known not to fall for the evils of marketing and ordered a good guitar instead. I hear that some guy once read on the internet that he knew a guy that had a friend that owned an Epiphone that BLOWS AWAY EVERY GIBSON. Every. Single. One. Ever. 

If only you'd joined this forum 42 years ago, you could've saved yourself so much anguish and money! 

Y'know... I really like the ring of that - - anguish and money - - that's a really good name for a band, nobody steal it!


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Roryfan said:


> anguish and money


That's the title of my hit single right there. You can keep the band name.


----------



## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

late to the party (just got back from holidays). Back to business. If you're looking for a guitar you're going to want to play then it seems to me a neck that you like is the most important thing. In Gibson land this becomes a bit tenuous but it certainly narrows the possibilities including year and model. You know what you like for a neck profile so that's where I would start. Most of the other stuff can be changed.


----------



## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

LanceT said:


> That's the title of my hit single right there. You can keep the band name.


I want royalties! What's 2% of $0.17?


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Roryfan said:


> I want royalties! What's 2% of $0.17?


You'd get 0.34c, don't go spending it all at once.


----------



## Guest (Sep 1, 2017)

edit; never mind


----------



## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

davetcan said:


> You'd get 0.34c, don't go spending it all at once.


I want it in cheque form so that I can frame it.


----------



## Percy (Feb 18, 2013)

1959


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

NorlinNorm said:


> Oh Really, just how many of the 1970's LP's have you played???
> It really cracks me up when I read such ridiculous statements...I guess Jimmy Page, Randy Rhoads, Brian Robertson, Scott Gorham, The Edge, Angus Young, Alex Lifeson, Al DiMeola
> Even Les Paul himself played a 70's, Gibson
> And Much more...............


Quite a few actually. It's no secret that Norlin era wasn't the best Gibson years. Sorry that you can't see past your own bias. People just have to sometimes justify what they own I guess. Laminated bodies are not something I would recommend to someone searching for the "good years" in terms of les pauls.



NorlinNorm said:


> Oh No, now I have to sell my 76 LPC because a guy on this forum said all 1970's are crap (shite).....
> Damn, if I only had read more information on the internet before I bought it!


I'm sorry. If I knew you'd get so defensive and whiney, I might have not tried to hurt your feelings  
Sorry you're so small and frail.


----------



## NorlinNorm (Dec 31, 2016)

I couldn't give a Rats A$$ if you do not like Norlin era guitars but when you generalize and categorically dismiss an entire era and thousands of guitars its a foolish thing to say, actually, I would be embarrassed to repeat it, unfortunately, you are extremely nieve!
I strongly suggest you do a little research on 3-5 piece laminated neck builds, I just think you might be a little surprised, here's a hint, think ratios......and warranty issues just to name a couple!...


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

NorlinNorm said:


> I couldn't give a Rats A$$ if you do not like Norlin era guitars but when you generalize and categorically dismiss an entire era and thousands of guitars its a foolish thing to say, actually, I would be embarrassed to repeat it, unfortunately, you are extremely nieve!
> I strongly suggest you do a little research on 3-5 piece laminated neck builds, I just think you might be a little surprised, here's a hint, think ratios......and warranty issues just to name a couple!...


Someone once told me don't argue with an idiot, as you'll lose because of their expertise in the field. 
Cheers.


----------



## NorlinNorm (Dec 31, 2016)

TDeneka said:


> Someone once told me don't argue with an idiot, as you'll lose because of their expertise in the field.
> Cheers.



So lame!
unconvincingly feeble but then again I didn't get the impression I was dealing with the sharpest knife in the drawer...


----------



## NorlinNorm (Dec 31, 2016)

I have had the extreme pleasure to chat with an ex Gibson employee (during the 1970's since retired) and many other extremely knowledgeable ex-guitar techs from this era...A quote from a previous Norlin era discussion...This is very informative!

"I did guitar repair in the 70's-80's Les Pauls were constructed from old growth mahogany, I would say older on average than 50's. [...] I did guitar repair in the 70's-80's and was a Gibson Repair Tech. In 78 I along with Jim Lombard and Seymour Duncan flew into Kalamazoo for a 3 day repair seminar. I met many original employees and saw all aspects of the manufacturing of Gibson Guitars.

I spent the better part of a day in the lumber yard (White wood dept I think it was called), picking brains and learning as much as I could from these experts. The mahogany was from Central America, and ONLY old growth Mahogany is harvested. It is wild and found deep in the rain forest. It was not plantation grown. It was the same hard, stiff wood as used in the 50's. Gibson bought the whole log, and mahogany was getting harder to find. 

To reduce scrap and waste they used all of it. Three piece necks allowed more wood to be used and produces less waste. Same for sandwich bodies. It allowed more wood to be used with less of the log wasted. It also allowed for more boards to be cut from the logs as they used the same boards for SG's.

In the 50's they used more wood from the upper part of the tree, resulting in lighter wood being used. The heavier, denser lower portions were sold off as PATTERN GRADE Mahogany. I was told that this is very high grade wood. Now using all of the log they ended up with a heavier guitar. The market DEMANDED a heavy solid body guitar because many noticed increased tone and definition with them. 

The wood was kiln dried as were the 50's. The wood was same species. The wood was from the same area. The wood was the same quality, but heavier and denser.

[...]

To the best of my knowledge, the wood was the same through the 80's. As C.A. Mahogany was getting harder to find, it also seems that the trees of proper size and age had more mineral content as well as density for increased weight. Still, I have found a few non weight relieved 80's lester in the 9-10lb range. Not too bad.


I was in retail and worked at a Gibson dealer as well as an authorized service/repair tech in the span from 75-88. I was not aware of quality issues at that time. Quite the opposite in fact. Gibson sold way more guitars than any previous time, including under McCarty. There was no increase in warranty claim percentages and Gibson quality far exceeded all other USA manufactured brands in those years. 

Body sandwich was more costly for Gibson and not a way to cut corners but to reduce waste, as has been explained in the other thread. I was ended by 75/76. Heavy was consumer driven. It was the fashion then. 

[...]

Pancake was not a way to use scrap. That is overly simplistic and shows a basic lack of information on the subject. It was a way to reduce waste, a very different distinction.I know. I was there I saw the white wood and saw mill at Gibson Kalamazoo. I talked with several employees and sought out the ones from the 50's. Seymour Duncan and I had lunch with Mr. McCarty. I saw how and why they were built.

Market demands and consumer pressure demanded a heavy Les Paul. Again, I sold them I bought and played them and used them. You think we were all Tom Wittrocks? Look at the old mags from then, very few knew anything about 50's guitars. There wasn't a cork sniffin' army of vintage wannabees freakin' out over long gone specs. Heavy guitars sounded better, that was conventional wisdom at that time. Gibson, Fender, Gretsch and Rickenbacker ALL made solid body guitars that were in the same weight range.

Alembic, Oasis, Kramer,(w/metal necks!), Rickenbacker, Gibson, Fender, Gretsch and many other smaller manufacturers ALL used a laminate wood construction in an effort to build BETTER guitars.

The Asian copies (Ibeenhads), which are so well regarded as somehow having higher quality were butcher block assemblies of scrap wood covered in veneers.

The vast majority wanted new electric solid bodies. Gibson like all manufacturers at that time answered the call. Things were done to improve quality and reduce warranty claims. The only USA company to offer LIFETIME WARRANTY on a solid body as well as all their guitars. 

Three piece necks are stiffer and more stable. Three piece maple was only used on Gibsons top models, It was viewed as a QUALITY spec, even in the late 50's. 

One only has to pick up and play a well maintained Norlin era guitar to see, feel and hear the quality.
Flawless finishes, solid hardware, and electronics, excellent fit and finish. Yeah, bad quality. They are what they are. What they aren't is a retro cloned 50's guitar, so what? Didn't seem to bother the pro's who used them live and the studio. There is a whole universe of quality that extends beyond 59's, Plexi's and bell bottoms. 

Norlin INC was a conglomerate of many companies. Gibson carried them and indeed did not " hemorrhage money" another wrong and misleading "fact". Cripes I am so tired of people reinventing history, I lived through and know about, intimately and personally. "


----------



## Guest (Sep 3, 2017)

That was informative.
Tnx NN.


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

NorlinNorm said:


> So lame!
> unconvincingly feeble but then again I didn't get the impression I was dealing with the sharpest knife in the drawer...


You spelled naive as 


NorlinNorm said:


> nieve!


and you want to attempt to belittle the intelligence of someone? LOL 
Good luck with that NitwitNorm


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Ruh roh. The seplling police. We've been schooled. 




NorlinNorm said:


> I have had the extreme pleasure to chat with an ex Gibson employee (during the 1970's since retired) and many other extremely knowledgeable ex-guitar techs from this era...A quote from a previous Norlin era discussion...This is very informative!
> 
> "I did guitar repair in the 70's-80's Les Pauls were constructed from old growth mahogany, I would say older on average than 50's. [...] I did guitar repair in the 70's-80's and was a Gibson Repair Tech. In 78 I along with Jim Lombard and Seymour Duncan flew into Kalamazoo for a 3 day repair seminar. I met many original employees and saw all aspects of the manufacturing of Gibson Guitars.
> 
> ...


Superb post. But even when presented with facts from people who were there, I'm sure many will continue to believe the internet myths. Flat earth society card carriers, I 'spose. Hell, I owned a couple of awful Godins, so by internet hype extrapolation, all Godins are shite, right?


I just love to think about all the 70s and 80s guitar heros, many still worshipped today, that didn't know enough (or have good enough ears or internet connections) to not buy any of those crappy Norlin Gibsons or post-CBS Fenders. LOL


----------



## Guest (Sep 3, 2017)




----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

The irony is how you morons are all missing the point completely. Guess I should have expected that from typical low iq guitar players.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I've stayed out of this one but you guys need to give it a rest and go play whatever year LP you have laying around.

btw mine is just north of 140, what's yours?


----------



## Guest (Sep 3, 2017)

TDeneka said:


> Guess I should have expected that from typical low iq guitar players.


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

The Irony of you posting that and only responding with images is comical. 
LOL


----------



## Guest (Sep 3, 2017)

TDeneka said:


> responding with images


worth a thousand words.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)




----------



## NorlinNorm (Dec 31, 2016)

TDeneka said:


> You spelled naive as
> 
> and you want to attempt to belittle the intelligence of someone? LOL
> Good luck with that NitwitNorm


I didn't attempt to belittle your intelligence, I did and was very successful!
And yes, I, unfortunately, made two mistakes first one was a common spelling error, second, I should have referenced the term "naive" appropriately because "naive" can also refer to innocent, unfortunately, I should have been more poignant (as in pitiful & wretched) to describe your unworldliness and ineptitude......

To belittle thousands of guitars literally a generation of artisans from luthier to musician has to be one of the most disrespectful, flippant and audacious posts that I have read on this forum!....my god man, give your head a shake!


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

NorlinNorm said:


> I didn't attempt to belittle your intelligence, I did and was very successful!
> And yes, I, unfortunately, made two mistakes first one was a common spelling error, second, I should have referenced the term "naive" appropriately because "naive" can also refer to innocent, unfortunately, I should have been more poignant (as in pitiful & wretched) to describe your unworldliness and ineptitude......
> 
> To belittle thousands of guitars literally a generation of artisans from luthier to musician has to be one of the most disrespectful, flippant and audacious posts that I have read on this forum!....my god man, give your head a shake!


Your version of success would be the saddest thing to aspire to LOL. 
It's hilarious when people start using a thesaurus in an attempt to make themselves sound smarter, when in reality they're as dumb as the day they were conceived. you sound like a first year college student. It isn't a good look for you.


----------



## JethroTech (Dec 8, 2015)

It's official: I regret starting this thread


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

LanceT said:


> This should be an entertaining thread. GO!


----------



## NorlinNorm (Dec 31, 2016)

TDeneka said:


> Your version of success would be the saddest thing to aspire to LOL.
> It's hilarious when people start using a thesaurus in an attempt to make themselves sound smarter, when in reality they're as dumb as the day they were conceived. you sound like a first year college student. It isn't a good look for you.





JethroTech said:


> It's official: I regret starting this thread


JT, no worries my friend, I get bored easily!
I decided to crank up my Friedman (Mini Dirty Shirley) along with my sweetheart the 76 Les Paul Custom and crank out some of my favorite 70's riffs!!!......after that my beloved 80 Marshall JMP 2204 with my Heritage H150 and blast (literally) out some "Kossoff"...


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

davetcan said:


> I've stayed out of this one but you guys need to give it a rest and go play whatever year LP you have laying around.
> 
> btw mine is just north of 140, what's yours?



140? What's that mean? My test was a pass/fail.......










......and now I can't start the car. 


BTW, no lesters these days. I'm jazz-boxin' it.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I think it's dropped below a hundred since I quit work and stopped using it so TDeneka may have a point


----------



## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

davetcan said:


> btw mine is just north of 140, what's yours?


Same. Likely from stress at work, but my Dr. is a little concerned.

You WERE talking about blood pressure, non?


----------



## NorlinNorm (Dec 31, 2016)

Roryfan said:


> Same. Likely from stress at work, but my Dr. is a little concerned.
> 
> You WERE talking about blood pressure, non?


140= treatment threshold


----------



## lexx (Feb 26, 2009)

JethroTech, Imho I think it's safe to say there were good and bad Les Paul's in "all" decades even the 50s. I feel that your best bet would to be play as many as you can and let your heart, hands and ears decide. What I look for in a guitar might not be what you look for...one of my favourites was a...heaven forbid...a BFG Gary Moore. Good luck in your search!

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

JethroTech said:


> It's official: I regret starting this thread


Indeed. I was enjoying varying opinions leading up to some genuinely helpful advice for the OP and others and then all of a sudden...a big turd appeared in the punchbowl. I've since been conversing with OP via PM but...are there any other constructive thoughts on the OP's original query?


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I think knowing the neck that you prefer is the biggest step, as had been mentioned.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

TDeneka said:


> Basically for LP's, generally 70's are complete shite, and early 80s are pretty bad as well.
> There are some good ones during those years but not many.


To be fair...he didn't say _all _Gibsons. He was misquoted shortly afterward. Strong opinions that aren't specifically targeting anyone and abrupt statements that are meant to correct inaccuracies are okay, don't you think?

Although it is best to _play _the guitars, when asked, it is simply easier to say avoid the eras where the general opinion is a negative one (whether it's justified or not). That's why I recommend the 90s to the early 2000s. There's a higher likelihood you'll find something that works and people seem to like them (as do I). OBVIOUSLY, this is an opinion based on my experience.

I haven't had any luck with Gibsons from the 70s/80s era as well, but I'm certain there's good ones out there. Further, they could've just been set-up poorly.

You guys need to lighten up and stop with the swarmism. Let two people argue, but when it becomes a gang raping, it gets a little lame.


----------



## robertkoa (Jun 7, 2010)

JethroTech said:


> I'm looking to add a decent Les Paul to my collection but I'm wondering just what years are considered the "Good" years? My budget is about $2,500 so that definitely rules out the 50s, 60s and the Custom Shop. If possible I'd like to find a 70s, 80s or even 90s LP. Why? Because I like a guitar that comes with built-in mojo
> 
> I understand that there are dud guitars from every era, but if I'm buying long distance and can't try before I buy, are there some that I should avoid and some that I shouldn't hesitate to buy? Thanks in advance.


Interesting Question- I am no LP expert because I have not owned one ( had an SG and a nice ES 347 long ago ) and I really liked the Bonanassa Studio LP - almost bought one to have Luthier convert to H-S-H ..
Loved the TONES , liked the Granadillo Fingerboard , Grovers and heavy resonant Body. Frets a bit LOW like many LPs .
My point is - that ALL Years should be GOOD!

WTF is Gibson doing?

Weight Relief is not working out too well..
Short Tenon not working out too well- why even use it on Guitars over $2500.?¿

Fretwire on LPs is low and overplaned = tops of frets shaved off too flat.
I spoke to Jescar Fretwire Company- Jeff Silver about getting their Fretwire onto a Canadian Brand I am interested in ( Prestige ) and also asked him why Gibson does not use Premium , Harder, Better Jescar Nickel Silver ( or EVO ,) on their Guitars ?

Jeff Silver told me Gibson ONLY uses the Premium Jescar Nickel Silver Fretwire on their Historic and Traditional Models !

So most Nashville Gibsons have cheap Fretwire to save maybe 10 dollars in cost of premium Nickel Silver wire !
And for another $25 or less they could use EVO Gold which sounds very close to Nickel but lasts very close to Stainless...( Gibson used EVO Gold on the LP Supreme ).

So IF Gibson really cared- they could UP THEIR GAME NOW- and produce the best Guitars ever...

A little pressure wouldn't hurt from Consumers.

We have better Fretwire and more Precise CNC Routing / Cutting /Machining NOW than in the 60's and more possible uniformity in Pickups and better Tuning Machines.

There are other Woods that sound and feel as good as Rosewood.
We have better Kilns and Torrefying to dry and or 'Roast' woods..
THIS should be the Golden Age of Gibson...

How about more Competition- WITHOUT copying the SHAPES - beat the Tones..Gibson Jazz and Semi-Hollows and LPs and Others are great at warm fat Tones...
Consumers need to embrace new Guitar Brands -Non Copies that have great Builds and Tones..to compete and BEAT Gibson/ Fender...

Fender and Gibson both have been coasting a little too long on their History and the fact that many Great Artists in the Past used Gibson or Fender..

Now it's Threads about digging through MANY Gibsons or Fenders to find a really 'Good One ' usually due to lack of Resonance and BOTH Brands usually have inferior Fretwork- weird.

Time for the Competition to Step Up ( which IS happening ) and NOT MERELY COPY but exceed these Old Designs and bad QC especially mediocre Fretwork and better Neck to Body joining for Superior Resonance !..¿?

Rant over...


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

adcandour said:


> I haven't had any luck with Gibsons from the 70s/80s era as well, but I'm certain there's good ones out there. Further, they could've just been set-up poorly.


My experience has been quite the opposite. In the 70s, I played literally hundreds of 70's Les Pauls. I worked in a store with a dozen on the wall at any given time - and being turned over regularly. The other stores in town also had them. A good half of my friends owned them, from 3PU Customs to Deluxes and even lesser versions like The Paul (not a real LP, IMO). Some were very heavy (12+ pounds), some were a bit dead but the vast majority were very good guitars - resonant, not overly heavy (10 lbs wasn't uncommon) and well built with good parts. Hardly a 'most of them were shit' scenario, IME.

I played many more stinker Ibanez' at the time, especially some of those 12 lb Musicians. I can see an Artist tipping the scales like that (and most did) being similar construction to an LP, but a Musician? I guess there were 12 lb strats, too. We had a 25th Anniversary Strat in stock that was at least 12 lbs, maybe more.

I wonder if one of the issues is that the better versions of the 70's and 80's guitars aren't getting moved along? People are hanging on to them? Maybe time works like a filter and over time, it's been mostly the overly heavy, overly dead ones that got sold over and over again, skewing the ratio? Or maybe it's just the internet and people repeating what they've read/heard ad nauseum, to look in the know with no real experience. I dunno, but what I read doesn't jive with what I lived through.


----------



## NorlinNorm (Dec 31, 2016)

High/Deaf said:


> My experience has been quite the opposite. In the 70s, I played literally hundreds of 70's Les Pauls. I worked in a store with a dozen on the wall at any given time - and being turned over regularly. The other stores in town also had them. A good half of my friends owned them, from 3PU Customs to Deluxes and even lesser versions like The Paul (not a real LP, IMO). Some were very heavy (12+ pounds), some were a bit dead but the vast majority were very good guitars - resonant, not overly heavy (10 lbs wasn't uncommon) and well built with good parts. Hardly a 'most of them were shit' scenario, IME.
> 
> I played many more stinker Ibanez' at the time, especially some of those 12 lb Musicians. I can see an Artist tipping the scales like that (and most did) being similar construction to an LP, but a Musician? I guess there were 12 lb strats, too. We had a 25th Anniversary Strat in stock that was at least 12 lbs, maybe more.
> 
> I wonder if one of the issues is that the better versions of the 70's and 80's guitars aren't getting moved along? People are hanging on to them? Maybe time works like a filter and over time, it's been mostly the overly heavy, overly dead ones that got sold over and over again, skewing the ratio? Or maybe it's just the internet and people repeating what they've read/heard ad nauseum, to look in the know with no real experience. I dunno, but what I read doesn't jive with what I lived through.


High/Deaf that was an excellent post, this forum is an excellent resource within itself, why Google, when you can reach out to a member and perhaps in some instances, get first-hand knowledge!


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

@robertkoa just wondering what exactly is getting achieved with your Fender and Gibson rants? If you feel better then that's one thing, but I don't think your tirades today are going to stop a lot of people from buying their guitars. Just an observation.


----------



## Guest (Sep 4, 2017)

can't figure out his joke either.

Two Guys and a Priest walk into a Music Store


----------



## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Don't give in to 'the man' you guys.


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

adcandour said:


> To be fair...he didn't say _all _Gibsons. He was misquoted shortly afterward. Strong opinions that aren't specifically targeting anyone and abrupt statements that are meant to correct inaccuracies are okay, don't you think?
> 
> Although it is best to _play _the guitars, when asked, it is simply easier to say avoid the eras where the general opinion is a negative one (whether it's justified or not). That's why I recommend the 90s to the early 2000s. There's a higher likelihood you'll find something that works and people seem to like them (as do I). OBVIOUSLY, this is an opinion based on my experience.
> 
> ...


See this guy has reading comprehension. A skill needed for many users here it seems. 

The op asked for the "good years." 
You'd have to be either high or completely biased to recommend Norlin era over anything else.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)




----------



## NorlinNorm (Dec 31, 2016)

TDeneka said:


> See this guy has reading comprehension. A skill needed for many users here it seems.
> 
> The op asked for the "good years."
> You'd have to be either high or completely biased to recommend Norlin era over anything else.


Absolutely Hilarious, it's called eggs on your face!
Enjoy!


----------



## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

JethroTech, I didn't notice if you mentioned a preferred neck size. With $2500 I think you are close to used Historic territory.

You can probably find a used R7 for that, maybe a used R8. If you can push the budget a bit higher, there is a G0(R0) in the classifieds that looks pretty nice.

I don't think you can go wrong with a nice Historic. My 2001 R9 is still my #1.


----------



## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

There is no such thing as a dud guitar, either the guitar needs a proper set up, or the player is a dud.


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

NorlinNorm said:


> Absolutely Hilarious, it's called eggs on your face!
> Enjoy!


Yeah totally. 
Sorry you're so weak you can't see past your own biases.


----------



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

Rick31797 said:


> There is no such thing as a dud guitar, either the guitar needs a proper set up, or the player is a dud.


Finally! Someone speaks the truth. Unless the neck is severely warped, there is no guitar that cannot be made to play well with a bit of fret leveling and good set-up.

Its wood and metal people, not rocket appliances.


----------



## JethroTech (Dec 8, 2015)

Just an update. I found a Les Paul. It's too early to tell if it's my "forever" LP, but so far it's pretty damn cool. It's a 1980 Custom in cherry burst with a mint chainsaw case. Oh, and it landed within my budget. I'm told that the pickups are Shaw but I everything I read tells me something different. Guitaring is confusing. Anyway, thanks for all the constructive help--it was appreciated.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

So, one of the very rare "non-shite" 80's examples then. 
Nice. Enjoy!


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Congrats Garner!


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

JethroTech said:


> View attachment 119225
> View attachment 119217
> View attachment 119209
> Just an update. I found a Les Paul. It's too early to tell if it's my "forever" LP, but so far it's pretty damn cool. It's a 1980 Custom in cherry burst with a mint chainsaw case. Oh, and it landed within my budget. I'm told that the pickups are Shaw but I everything I read tells me something different. Guitaring is confusing. Anyway, thanks for all the constructive help--it was appreciated.


Congrats. Those are just great guitars. Looks in great shape and the binding is nicely yellowed. Protector cases are cool, too. I love everything about them.*

How's the weight? 


*Well, everything but those damn ball-ends! LOL


----------



## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

With stamps dated that early in 1980, it's unlikely they'd be Shaws Garner. I'd wager good money that they're end-of-the-line T-tops. Nice looking axe btw!


----------



## JethroTech (Dec 8, 2015)

High/Deaf said:


> Congrats. Those are just great guitars. Looks in great shape and the binding is nicely yellowed. Protector cases are cool, too. I love everything about them.*
> 
> How's the weight?
> 
> ...


10lbs. Gulp


----------



## Guest (Sep 6, 2017)

StevieMac said:


> With stamps dated that early in 1980, it's unlikely they'd be Shaws Garner.
> I'd wager good money that they're end-of-the-line T-tops. Nice looking axe btw!


Ascertaining Shaws can be confusing.
Tim Shaw Pickup info please !!


----------



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

10 lbs is perfect for a LP. You wanna stay away from those 13 pounders. Some of those are real dogs....so I have read.
Most likely T-tops, the best pickups ever!


----------



## lexx (Feb 26, 2009)

Nice one, congrats!!

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

JethroTech said:


> 10lbs. Gulp


That's a nice weight. My '77 weighs in at 10 lbs as well. I don't find it heavy - it was my first LP I owned and I just thought they were supposed to be like that. Now I'm just used to it. As @capnjim says, you probably want to stay away from the 13 lb-ers, although some find that tolerable as well.


----------



## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I could not answer the original question, but this thread has stirred up some memories of being a teenager in the '70's. I remember all the comments back then about "don't buy a CBS Fender, they are crap". This mostly came from "Gibby" guys who were just proud as hell (and likely rightly so) of their "Norlin" era guitars. So, given all the hype, one would think there wasn't a good guitar built by either company during that decade. Now folks will pay a premium for a 70's Strat.

Personally, I would think there were better and worse guitars came off the line at either company and you never know which one you prefer until it is in your hands. What one player would love, another would dismiss. Generalities aside, there are gems and duds in every run (as in every manufactured item), but as has been said, a good set up and some tweaking and anything can play well, the question is how do "you" like it?

It's akin to discussing string gauge. Big strings or thin strings, which is better? No one could argue that both SRV and Billy Gibbons have great tone, yet come from either side of the spectrum when it comes to string size.


Oh, and congrats on the purchase.


----------



## Norman231 (May 5, 2014)

Very pretty.
Very very pretty.
I couldn't see any bumps or bruises on it in the photo's though; maybe you should let some clumsy friends borrow it, and perhaps they'll be kind enough to break it in for you, such that you won't be afraid to play it.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Congrats on your new LP!


----------



## CDWaterloo (Jul 18, 2008)

Nice LP!! Congrats.

Btwn, I think 2016 was a good year for Gibson in terms of overall quality. Maybe they were trying to cover their mistakes in 2015

Cd


----------



## NorlinNorm (Dec 31, 2016)

NorlinNorm said:


> I have had the extreme pleasure to chat with an ex Gibson employee (during the 1970's since retired) and many other extremely knowledgeable ex-guitar techs from this era...A quote from a previous Norlin era discussion...This is very informative!
> 
> "I did guitar repair in the 70's-80's Les Pauls were constructed from old growth mahogany, I would say older on average than 50's. [...] I did guitar repair in the 70's-80's and was a Gibson Repair Tech. In 78 I along with Jim Lombard and Seymour Duncan flew into Kalamazoo for a 3 day repair seminar. I met many original employees and saw all aspects of the manufacturing of Gibson Guitars.
> 
> ...


Just setting the record straight, this quote was from High/Deaf


JethroTech said:


> 10lbs. Gulp


Thanks for letting me know of my error, as you mentioned it was High/Deaf who so eloquently described his experiences with Gibson 70's-80's Les Pauls!
and....Congratz on your beautiful LPC and welcome to the club!
For the record, my 76 LPC is just under 11 lbs...


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I just weighed my CR8 yesterday, 7lbs 11oz.


----------



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

sulphur said:


> I just weighed my CR8 yesterday, 7lbs 11oz.


Obviously, way to light to be a "good one". Hope you didn't pay more than 832$ for it.HNG^%$


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

capnjim said:


> Obviously, way to light to be a "good one". Hope you didn't pay more than 832$ for it.HNG^%$


Ha! Obviously a terrible one and it wasn't a whole lot more.


----------

