# This board getting as bad as Craigslist!



## Evilmusician (Apr 13, 2007)

Man the amount of guys that PM ya with lowball offers is getting ridiculous!
I understand trying get a better deal but for the most part the guys here selling are more than reasonable with prices (discuss)


----------



## Guest (Jan 5, 2009)

Shrug it off man. It's part and parcel of the private sale methodology.


----------



## dan_ (Feb 5, 2008)

The price you gotta pay. Remember...those lowballers are often making offers above what you'd get on a trade-in. Don't feel obligated to reply to them if it pisses you off...use the 'delete' button as your stress-reliever!


----------



## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Well..it's part of the game, and i think the economic situation is not helping. So people are trying to get the MOST of their gear, and buyers are trying to get the best deal. When i see a American Strat advertised at 1000$, you can't expect someone to actually pay that unless it is "THE" strat of their dream basicaly.

last year, we had the dollard at par..now it's around what!...87%?. you.ll see people selling things they paid say 1500$ when the money was at par, now, new the same item is say 1900$..so they will try and sell their gear for 1600$, wich does'nt make much sens to me personnaly. Usually a buyer that is looking for a certain peice of gear and will have done a bit of research before buying so that might explain SOME of the lowball offers. 

On the other hand...i've seen Gibson LP Standards selling so low these days, it's nuts. there was one in Montreal Kiiji, mint, 2005 for 1500$. New ones are what now!?...2800$ or close to it?.

In the end, lowball offers are just a test i guess to see how negotiable you are. To many people put a FIRM price wich is kinda ridiculous since if you've delt in used gear before, you know everyone will want to negotiate.


----------



## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Guitarists are cheap. Canadians are cheap. Canadian guitarists are really cheap.........


----------



## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Can you give an example of what you were selling and what kind of offers you got? Maybe your definition of lowball is different than mine. I've only ever gotten one lowball offer on this board, but the user at least proceeded it with "I know this is a low offer but its all I can afford" which, to me, is cool.


----------



## RAW1 (Oct 15, 2008)

Accept2 nails it!.


----------



## Guest (Jan 5, 2009)

nkjanssen said:


> That wasn't even a PM; it was in a forum post. I did one trade on a pedal that worked out great. Other than that, I spent most of my time having to defend myself.


You should report those posts. That's forbidden behaviour, commenting on for sale/trade prices.


----------



## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

iaresee said:


> You should report those posts. That's forbidden behaviour, commenting on for sale/trade prices.


Actually the rules states."Please do not comment on asking prices!" Notice that, this rule does'nt excist on HC. trading price are a totaly different mather. but that's just a side note. 

THe US market is basicaly 10 times biger, so i'de say it's normal you'll get more offers and end-up with higher offers since a lot more people might be interested in it. On the other hand, i don't think Canadians are cheap, we might just do more research on gear and since we don't see the same volume you see on say Harmony Central, we tend to try to get it at a better price since we don't know when will the next item appear. you search HC for an item, most of the time you'll get a lot of the same article for sale at different prices.


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

nkjanssen said:


> I got flak for suggesting an American Ash Tele in great condition would be worth around $750 Cdn. in trade .


Interested in a tube amp for your Tele?

TG


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Here's my $0.02.

Selling an item, EVEN a guitar, is not a personal thing. The buyer is not adopting a member of your family.

As long as offers are made politely I have no problems with them.

It's at least an opportunity to start negotiations.


----------



## Guest (Jan 5, 2009)

al3d said:


> Actually the rules states."Please do not comment on asking prices!"


So you're taking that literally as "you can't comment on prices in threads that list gear for sale, but you can comment on prices on threads that list gear for trade"? I'm sure GuitarsCanada can rectify that loophole. I think the spirit of the rule is that it applies to all threads in the emporium sections, for sale or otherwise.

Personally I think it's great when a FT thread includes a value price. What a nice way to set expectations. And if one does I would expect the same courtesy to apply.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

nkjanssen said:


> There are definitely more "hits" on the bigger US sites, as I'd expect. Still, on a per-capita basis, I'd say the breakdown for me has been...
> 
> Canadian Forum:
> Offers resulting in a trade - 5%
> ...


Wow, that's markedly different than what I've seen. I don't think I've EVER received a complaint regarding an item for sale.

Perhaps you're selling high end stuff? That's where people will tend to make low ball offers. When you're selling a $2500. I suppose $1000. seems like a low ball offer.

LOL, maybe I make low ball prices.


----------



## Guest (Jan 5, 2009)

Milkman said:


> Wow, that's markedly different than what I've seen. I don't think I've EVER received a complaint regarding an item for sale.


Ditto. I've hit one situation where trade values couldn't be worked out and the trade fell through but it was no big deal. That happens. Not all negotiations are successful. I tend to think if I list something and it sits there, no comments and no PMs, that's a pretty clear sign I've mis-priced it. :smile:


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Ditto. I've hit one situation where trade values couldn't be worked out and the trade fell through but it was no big deal. That happens. Not all negotiations are successful. I tend to think if I list something and it sits there, no comments and no PMs, that's a pretty clear sign I've mis-priced it. :smile:


Sometimes it's just a matter of timing.


----------



## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

I think we all get lowball offers at one point. i received an offer of 700$ on a 1300$ amp, it was done politely so i declined it in the same mather.


----------



## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Accept2 said:


> Guitarists are cheap. Canadians are cheap. Canadian guitarists are really cheap.........


I agree with the sentiment...but would probably choose "value conscious" as my preferred descriptor. It's also entirely possible that musicians simply have less disposable income than most other folks...perhaps as a result of years of relative "fleecing" they've endured when purchasing new instruments in this country. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

This place is definitely better than CL -- that's just hyperbole right ? 
I continually get the dumbest trade offers on CL -- one guy offered me a pair of crappy old jeans and some kind of old table lamp for a zendrive (I think, might have been OCD); or you get those MIT Boss MT-2 or a Zoom multiFX for your ever popular WackoBlaster Humpty Caster^TM. The ones I don't like are where they get in your face. I had one guy offer me $50 for an OCD because "you can get them new for $60 and I know you're desperate for the cash" 
I've only ever had decent trade offers on here. Some I've taken, most I've passed because usually I'm selling to fund other purchases. 

I have noticed an increase in number of people with low post counts posting in the B&S section, so there is an increasing population of people using the board as a B&S forum first and foremost, so maybe that's why there's an emphasis on the economics of it all and lowballing.


----------



## Guest (Jan 5, 2009)

devnulljp said:


> The ones I don't like are where they get in your face.


It's been pretty civil for me for a good year. Until last week when I put the RV-3 up for sale on the Ottawa Kijiji/CL/UsedOttawa set of sites. I got some guy harassing me about shipping it to him COD. I, politely, said I wasn't interested in shipping it and certainly not COD. It was posted for sale on sites catering to local, in-person sales. I think I got like 5 or 6 emails from him pestering about shipping it and using Canada Post's COD service.


----------



## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

iaresee said:


> I think I got like 5 or 6 emails from him pestering about shipping it and using Canada Post's COD service.


I just add them to the ignore/spam filter after the second such email and off they go to never never land. Life's too short to bother with recalcitrant trolls.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

iaresee said:


> So you're taking that literally as "you can't comment on prices in threads that list gear for sale, but you can comment on prices on threads that list gear for trade"? I'm sure GuitarsCanada can rectify that loophole. I think the spirit of the rule is that it applies to all threads in the emporium sections, for sale or otherwise.
> 
> Personally I think it's great when a FT thread includes a value price. What a nice way to set expectations. And if one does I would expect the same courtesy to apply.


Any comments regarding an offer for trade should be made to the person via the PM system and never on the thread. Do not comment on pricing in any negative way on a thread. It does nothing but invite trouble. If an item is priced too high the seller is going to get the message by the lack of interest. Offers can be made through the PM system. I guess you can never stop lowball offers totally. But as a potential buyer, it would make sense not to waste people's time with ludicrous offers, especially when you yourself know it's ludicrous.


----------



## Evilmusician (Apr 13, 2007)

Couple of these offers were from low post members ,maybe there just not understanding what a great community this is yet!:wave:


----------



## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

This reminds me that I saw perhaps twenty brand new Gibson Les Pauls for sale at Guitarworks for 50% of msrp on Boxing Day...I mean new $3,200 guitars for $1,600...down to $900 Epiphones for $450.

It is difficult to convert used gear into cash. You may have just the right guitar, and find the one guy looking for it. And you may go months without an offer.

Personally, I am never offended by any cash offer. If it is too low, a simple "No, thanks!" is all it takes.


----------



## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

rhh7 said:


> Personally, I am never offended by any cash offer. If it is too low, a simple "No, thanks!" is all it takes.


+1 to that. 

BTW, a few months ago I posted a nice Peters amp and a B-Bender Tele FS here, both at what I thought were very reasonable prices. I had the usual lowball offers, a few more serious interests but no takers so I eventually put them both on Ebay. Both sold within 7 days for MORE than I was asking here. WTF? We all like to bitch about Evil-Bay but it seems it still really works for selling, at least when the USD exchange rate works to your benefit.

Now I'm questioning whether to bother posting stuff for sale here anymore. It's not that I don't like you guys  but maybe Canadians really are too cheap!


----------



## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

I agree on the NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS that some members here like to post on the actual thread . I find that really rude and uncalled for . If you have an issue with the item that is posted , PM the seller and not in a harrasing way either .


----------



## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

I know i did in the past post a few remarks in some thread regarding prices, but trust me, wont happen again.....found some amazing deals here and i've been doing 90% of my shopping here for a while..


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Honestly, I don't know if I have horseshoes up my bum or what, but I've never really had to deal with any crazies on CL. I've had some offers I didn't want to consider, but that was for trades that I wasn't interested in, not necessarily a low-ball situation.

It's also hard to judge what a vintage piece if worth. The only trouble I had was when I was selling some older pedals and I was asking for $200 for an original Boss OD-1. While I knew my price might have been a touch high, I only padded it because I knew I was going to get lower offers. At the time, a few had sold on eBay for 180 or 190 US, and mine was in great condition. I had one guy really get finicky with me because I wouldn't sell it to him for the 90 or so bucks he offered, and then told me it was a crappy pedal anyway. Long story short, I ended up selling it for $160 to someone on CL and was quite happy with that price.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

devnulljp said:


> WackoBlaster Humpty Caster^*TM*.


Look out...the price of these is going to go way out of reach now 

Dave


----------



## Rumble_b (Feb 14, 2006)

Just do what I do, only buy gear!!! I've bought a few things from people here but I pay what they are asking. If it's something I want and think that the price is right for the item I pay it. If it's too much I usually don't make an offer. I think it's pretty rude to totally low ball someone. Maybe try to get shipping included or a bit off but nothing more than that. I think most of the prices I've seen on here are pretty resonable, a few not so much. But thats not my problem, it's theres. I'd just tell the low ballers no thanks and ignore them.


----------



## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

greco said:


> Look out...the price of these is going to go way out of reach now
> 
> Dave


You know you want one!


----------



## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Rumble_b said:


> Just do what I do, only buy gear!!! I've bought a few things from people here but I pay what they are asking. If it's something I want and think that the price is right for the item I pay it. If it's too much I usually don't make an offer. I think it's pretty rude to totally low ball someone. Maybe try to get shipping included or a bit off but nothing more than that. I think most of the prices I've seen on here are pretty resonable, a few not so much. But thats not my problem, it's theres. I'd just tell the low ballers no thanks and ignore them.


+1 I pretty much do the same thing. If I like something I don't even bother to bargain and pay mostly the asking price. Sometimes I get too excited I agree to the price, and realize later that I am a bit overpaying for the item. One time it was a local deal and I even agreed to the price including the shipping.  Best thing about it, when I got there, the buyer himself took off what was supposed to be the shipping cost out of the price, which I thought was pretty cool.


----------



## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

My favorite is when they make an offer, you accept it. Then they show up to your house with only half that. After that happened I simply stopped selling..........


----------



## sysexguy (Mar 5, 2006)

If I'm selling something on here and everyone knows it's technologically stillwater and the price is too high........can I get a massive bailout package from some level of government????:smilie_flagge17:

I've really not had any problems here, a couple of wtb's I replied to were fishing for extremely distressed sellers, not me, so I move on. 

I remember back when I was working retail on the floor, closing a sale in February with the customer already back warming up their car in the parking lotkkjuw

Andy


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Evilmusician said:


> Couple of these offers were from low post members ,maybe there just not understanding what a great community this is yet!:wave:


I tend to think stuff like this might be more of an issue.

I have never had anyone comment on any of my prices, or trade posts since I have been posting here. And I post quite a few ads. I research my prices very well before I post. I definitely have not had anything I would call a 'lowball' offer on here. Not even close.

A lot of prices I see in a lot of places, including this forum at times, aren't really inline with going used prices or the current economy. I saw a guy on Kijiji asking $850 for a used Highway 1 Tele with no case. You could likely find one new for that price with some leg work. Yet in his ad he goes on a tyrade about people making him low offers. Well if his idea of pricing is mixed up enough that he's asking $850 firm for that guitar, then who knows what his idea of a 'low' offer is?


----------



## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Just a couple of thoughts.

As a buyer, you have to do your research, Ebay is really good for that. You have an idea of what you want, and you know how much you are willing to spend. 
Maybe you can do better if a seller is really motivated to move something and you make them a lower offer. When I get lowball offers, I just write it off to that.
And as a buyer, you have to remember to allow freight, duty, etc. if you are comparing prices to Ebay. Much, much safer to buy local, somewhat safer to buy in Canada.

As a seller, you also have to do your research. A lot of sellers don't seem to do that. I've seen a lot of ads, especially on Craigslist and Bargain Finder, that are way out of touch with the market. Guitars you can buy any day of the week for, say, $800 on Ebay, and guys are asking $2K used. Sure they are going to get lowball offers, they need a reality check.
As a seller, you have to set the price you really want to sell it for. Then you have to decide whether to advertise it for a higher price and negotiate down or set a firm price to move it. And have a price that you'd just keep it for, if that's all the market will bear.

I've bought a few things from the guys on here. Most were priced where I considered them reasonable, I had to negotiate a couple that I thought weren't quite there, but every one was shipped exactly as offered, all exactly what you'd expect.

On the other side I have had a couple of things on here that didn't sell, that I'd priced at my bottom line. eg a PA head for $200. Below that, I'll throw it in the storeroom for the just-in-case someday we have a problem with our PA so I'll have a good backup unit to grab. My rationale for that is that, if I saw one for that price in the back room at L&M, I'd probably buy it as a back up anyway, lol.

We're all gear hounds, but guitar players really are a cheap bunch. Always have been, always will be. We will drop the big coin when we find what we want, but we are extremely careful to try to get the best deal possible.


----------



## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

I've really got nothing to add other than this has been one of the most interesting threads I've read in some time.


----------



## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

XD

I've only seen a couple things here I have an interest in, and I know already what I have an interest in is a few bills...

I like that many people just do the "120 shipped" too, saves my grey matter working overtime.

Just to add some person experience info, I have off and on bought things from people around the globe via a multitude of means. Some people, like myself, live in a city with multiple Dollarama's and can purchase shipping envelopes for a buck, but there are people that only have a choice of the 2/3 dollar brown ones or the 4/5 dollar white ones from Canada Post (round about the same if they have to purchase a box). There are people that simply will not deal with a dollar store for anything, and yes, I do expect to have that cost as part of the shipping cost. I am lucky too in that my Canada Post is across the road, but there are people that need to drive, and some a fair distance, to their nearest postal outlet. Driving means gas, and again an addition to the cost of shipping (and even with driving, if you do have to drive and your downtown parking is paid, well there is another 2 dollars it cost to send the item).


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I have lived in isolated areas in the past. So I have no problem with people charging reasonable handling fees on an item being shipped. The main place the 'gouging' in that regard seems to be is on eBay. It's not a problem I have ever had on this forum.

I also don't have an issue with people trying to make their money back on Kijiji or CL. It's annoying, but I just don't buy the stuff. And no one else has to. Hopefully in most cases, the item not selling will be a wake up call to the seller.

But is is annoying when people with obviously over-priced items post rants in their ad about people sending them low offers, when their prices are 20% above the average price for a used item. 

I have rarely ever seen 'overpriced' used gear on this forum. People sell some pretty high end stuff on here. If it doesn't sell quick, it's not because of the prices. It's because it's just out of people's budgets. The prices on some of the high end gear on here are more than fair.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

For me, there is nothing that I NEED to sell and nothing that I NEED to buy. There is, however, a long list of things that I'd be interested in having. This "list" has an associated price range for each item depending on how high it sits on the list. For example, if something from high on my list becomes available and the price is fair I'll probably buy it. Alternatively, if the item is low on my list but one comes up and the price is too good to pass up then I'll probably bite. On the occasion that an item high on the list comes up as a steal .... well my friends, you know how good that feels. 

I have a certain "budget" for my purchases and a certain "inventory level" for my gear and I try to balance my incoming with outgoing and sell accordingly. When I put something up for sale I try to do my research first. If something doesn't sell I may drop the price but may also just withdraw it. For example, I currently have a battery-powered amp listed for 35 bucks and that's a great deal but if nobody wants it at that price then I'll just hang on to it - it'll come in handy at some point.

And like most, I love to negotiate - on both sides of the transaction - but I never give, or like receiving lowballs - they are insulting and I'll reply to them in the same tone at which they're offered.


----------



## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

allthumbs56 said:


> For me, there is nothing that I NEED to sell and nothing that I NEED to buy. There is, however, a long list of things that I'd be interested in having. This "list" has an associated price range for each item depending on how high it sits on the list. For example, if something from high on my list becomes available and the price is fair I'll probably buy it. Alternatively, if the item is low on my list but one comes up and the price is too good to pass up then I'll probably bite. On the occasion that an item high on the list comes up as a steal .... well my friends, you know how good that feels.
> 
> I have a certain "budget" for my purchases and a certain "inventory level" for my gear and I try to balance my incoming with outgoing and sell accordingly. When I put something up for sale I try to do my research first. If something doesn't sell I may drop the price but may also just withdraw it. For example, I currently have a battery-powered amp listed for 35 bucks and that's a great deal but if nobody wants it at that price then I'll just hang on to it - it'll come in handy at some point.
> 
> And like most, I love to negotiate - on both sides of the transaction - but I never give, or like receiving lowballs - they are insulting and I'll reply to them in the same tone at which they're offered.



Well said. This would be how I consider myself as well.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Back the main issue of the thread, is this really becoming an issue on this forums? Again, I have never received any PM I have considered rude on this forum. I am surprised to hear of it happening.


----------



## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

torndownunit said:


> Back the main issue of the thread, is this really becoming an issue on this forums? Again, I have never received any PM I have considered rude on this forum. I am surprised to hear of it happening.


Agreed. I have seen nothing but niceness


----------



## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> Agreed. I have seen nothing but niceness




All the low ball offers I have received have come through Craigslist, not here. I have about 40 transactions here, so i've definitely seen a good sampling.


----------



## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*low ball*

I have seen forsale posts on my internet travels, that invite lowball offers.
People really in the need of quick cash and saying so in there post.

I like to get a deal like most people , but i couldn't lowball a desperate person trying to get enough money to pay his rent, if that was the case.

I have never had any problems here, but have on Kijiji and now if i post an ad i mention i will not be replying back to any lowballers.
If i wanted to give something away i will post it on freecycle.

Rick


----------

