# Canadian Pride



## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

This is a simple question I meant to post last year on Canada Day but I was kind of busy at the time so I'll ask it this year.

What makes you proud to be a Canadian? :smilie_flagge17:


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

That our political leaders, although morons like everywhere else, are at least somewhat accessible by the public....for instance, the Rick Mercer Show, which can get away with doing things and saying things to our heads of state, that one could never dream of doing even in "the land of the free".

Also the separation of chuch and state.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

What Diablo said. I also like how we don't overreact to everything. 

I am also proud how well as a people take to this cold forbiding place. Every part is different but we adapt so well. Slap on the blades when you can't swim anymore....


Really diggin the Canadian Shield these days too. 


Welcome to Canada, it's the Maple Leaf State.
Canada, oh Canada it's great!
The people are nice and they speak French too.
If you don't like it, man, you sniff glue.
The Great White North, their kilts are plaid,
Hosers take off, it's not half bad. 



Have a great day. :smilie_flagge17:


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## dufe32 (Feb 5, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> What Diablo said. I also like how we don't overreact to everything.
> 
> I am also proud how well as a people take to this cold forbiding place. Every part is different but we adapt so well. Slap on the blades when you can't swim anymore....
> 
> ...


This is very nice! +1

I like to think that most Canadians are pacifists and that we are not totally european and not totally american - if that makes any sense - and that's what makes us different from the rest of the world. I'm proud to live in the province of Quebec, I'm proud of speaking french and english and I'm proud to represent Canada wherever I may be in the world.

Happy Canada Day everyone!

Bonne Fête du Canada à tous!


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

Years ago on CBC radio they had a competition to see if anyone could come up with a saying to mirror the American adage "As American as apple pie." The winning entry was "As Canadian as possible under the circumstances."

Among many other things I'm proud of our self effacing sense of humour.

Matt


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Gordon Lightfoot
Neil Young
Bob and Doug
Rush
Michaelle Jean
Moose


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

*Ginormous things*


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I have traveled a lot over the years and one thing that makes me feel proud to me a Canadian is that no matter where we go in the world, we are welcomed. I have never heard a bad comment about Canada on my travels. I am not sure I would wear an American flag on my person when traveling but I would never fear wearing a Canadian flag. ie badge or lapel pin. So when people in other countries ask where I am from it gives you a good feeling to proudly say "I am Canadian" and know you are welcome.

So as a nation and a people, we must be doing something right. Glad to be a part of it. I also know that there is no country on earth I would ever move to from here. We are also not a nation that pounds it's chest. Even today, you probably won't see millions of Canadian flags flying, thats just the way we are.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Starbuck said:


>


Where's the Wawa goose?

The Nickel is Sudbury of course, and I believe the moose may be Hearst, Ontario.

I've never seen that fiddle though.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Where's the Wawa goose?
> 
> The Nickel is Sudbury of course, and I believe the moose may be Hearst, Ontario.
> 
> I've never seen that fiddle though.


Ahh Didn't know about the Goose, The moose is SASK and the Fiddle is Sydney NS


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Yeah, the fiddle is at the Sydney cruise terminal. Pretty nice set-up there. It is on a few of the Canada - New England cruise itineraries. Those cruises are actually a really nice way to check out some of the cities.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Yeah, the fiddle is at the Sydney cruise terminal. Pretty nice set-up there. It is on a few of the Canada - New England cruise itineraries. Those cruises are actually a really nice way to check out some of the cities.


I got up really early one morning last week (it was actually sunny) to go for a run and I was really happy I did cause as I came down over a hill I could see one of the cruise ships entering the harbor. It was a great sight!


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Theres also the Big Apple at Colborne, Ontario.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

The Apple 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiless/2646788238/sizes/l/in/set-72157606061190955/

The chicken
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiless/3515030650/sizes/l/in/set-72157614316302493/
The park 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiless/3141657048/sizes/o/in/set-72157614316302493/

The Toonie 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiless/2478786683/sizes/l/in/set-72157614316302493/


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Ahh Didn't know about the Goose, The moose is SASK and the Fiddle is Sydney NS


This is the moose in Hearst.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

And of course, Toronto has the giant.......well, you know.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm proud to be a Canadian, for all the reasons mentioned and more. We do seem to love ginormous things though. This is in Glendon, Alberta. The biggest perogy I've ever seen.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3206/2748295544_26c2a7af62.jpg

Have a great Canada Day.

Shawn :smilie_flagge17:


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I have traveled a lot over the years and one thing that makes me feel proud to me a Canadian is that no matter where we go in the world, we are welcomed. I have never heard a bad comment about Canada on my travels. I am not sure I would wear an American flag on my person when traveling but I would never fear wearing a Canadian flag. ie badge or lapel pin. So when people in other countries ask where I am from it gives you a good feeling to proudly say "I am Canadian" and know you are welcome.
> 
> So as a nation and a people, we must be doing something right. Glad to be a part of it. I also know that there is no country on earth I would ever move to from here. We are also not a nation that pounds it's chest. Even today, you probably won't see millions of Canadian flags flying, thats just the way we are.


Very well said and I agree 100%. I cross the border every day to work in the Detroit area and every day when I come back to Canada, I am grateful to be home. I get asked a lot by my fellow American co-workers why I don't move to the US. To them I say, "It would be a legal nightmare." But in my head I am saying, "Living here would be a nightmare." Happy Birthday Canada!!


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Big_Daddy said:


> Very well said and I agree 100%. I cross the border every day to work in the Detroit area and every day when I come back to Canada, I am grateful to be home. I get asked a lot by my fellow American co-workers why I don't move to the US. To them I say, "It would be a legal nightmare." But in my head I am saying, "Living here would be a nightmare." Happy Birthday Canada!!


That is so true. I worked and stayed in Auburn Hills 3 days a week for 12 years up until last May. Every single time I crossed the border coming back home there was that few seconds of "relief" almost that I was "home". Hard to explain but I always fealt that way. Being as close as we are to the borders there is still so much difference. Not that I have major issues with Americans. Individually most are the same as we are. Trying to make a living and raising a family etc. But there are differences is the general outlook. They tried for years to get me to get one of those green cards or whatever the hell they are. I siad no thanks.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The moose in Hearst is actually a pair of moose, bull and cow, fending off a couple of wolves. But you get a couple of points for thinking about Hearst.:smilie_flagge17:

Don't forget the ginormous truck in Sparwood, and the world's largest hockey stick in Duncan.


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## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

The Dog River Hoe.


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> That is so true. I worked and stayed in Auburn Hills 3 days a week for 12 years up until last May. Every single time I crossed the border coming back home there was that few seconds of "relief" almost that I was "home". Hard to explain but I always fealt that way. Being as close as we are to the borders there is still so much difference. Not that I have major issues with Americans. Individually most are the same as we are. Trying to make a living and raising a family etc. But there are differences is the general outlook. They tried for years to get me to get one of those green cards or whatever the hell they are. I siad no thanks.


Wow. Thorold to Auburn Hills. That's a helluva commute! 

I hope no one thinks from my post that I am an American-basher. I have some very good friends here and there is a lot to like about the US. But there is no place on earth like Canada!


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## foghorn99 (Apr 28, 2008)

*A History of Tolerance....*

IMHO....our tolerance and compassion for people who are 'different' than 'us' is what sets us apart from MANY other countries in the world. 

When I say "us"....we are all historically from different backgrounds, different cultures, different circumstances in our family's journey to get here in Canada. 

So, maybe we identify with the struggles of other people in the world who want to come to Canada to 'belong'. Maybe it also gives us compassion to understand the plight of those who are being oppressed in other areas of the world.

We have a unique perspective on the world's ....and I appreciate this everytime I'mback in Canada from whatever part of the world I am returning.

Happy Canada Day, everyone!


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

And for you size queens, dont forget this:









I wonder whatever happened to it? Sitting in the worlds largest guitar case collecting dust like so many other guitars?


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

Everything posted here I agree with but I'd also like to add that I'm proud of the people in this country and the beauty of it. We've given so much to the world in so many areas. For example, I think we probably have more entertainers (musicians, artists, comedians, authors, etc.) per capita than other countries. We also seem to have higher standards and we're known worldwide as polite, modest and friendly people. Even though there are problems and issues here they're relatively minor compared to other countries and honestly, there's no other country in the world I'd rather live in than this one. Happy Canada Day everybody. :smilie_flagge17:


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

Don't forget some of the best Beer in the world........lol


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

foghorn99 said:


> IMHO....our tolerance and compassion for people who are 'different' than 'us' is what sets us apart from MANY other countries in the world.
> 
> When I say "us"....we are all historically from different backgrounds, different cultures, different circumstances in our family's journey to get here in Canada.


if i might offer an outsider's perspective...

as an american, one of the things i really like about here is, it's no big deal if your race or culture is different than mine/yours/his/hers.
you can still be buddies, or have relationships with anyone from anywhere and it's ok. it's not like that where i'm from. maybe in some corner of america, but nowhere on the east coast, i can tell you that much.

another thing i like about here is lake ontario beaches. back home when people go to the beach it's rehobeth, atlantic city, ocean city or myrtle beach. they have a midway atmosphere, kinda like niagra is. 
here, the beaches are clean, and scenic, not so commercialized. you can't swim in the lake because the water's always cold, but i didn't swim in the ocean either, (sharks and stuff) so that part's no big deal. 

lastly, (and this is a biggie to me) hot dogs. no for real - 
as americans we are fond of saying things like "that's as american as hot dogs and apple pie" but you go to a baseball game in the states, and you will pay waaayyy too much for a crappy boiled or steamed hotdog that is identical to what you might buy in the grocery store except you woulda cooked it better if you did it yourself. 
in toronto. _right on the street_, you can get an awesome hot dog that's cooked over an open flame, it's big and fat and juicy and the roll is usually fresh and it's toasted on the grill. AND IT COSTS LESS!!!
as an american, i am embarressed that canada serves a far better hotdog for less money. however, that does not stop me from gleefully gobbling them up anytime i find an excuse, and $2.50. 
happy canada day, canadians. :smilie_flagge17:
now if one of you wouldn't mind kicking your immigration office in the rear to get me my permanent resident card, it'll be smiles and happy eyes all the way around :wave:


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## wayne (Apr 8, 2009)

Diablo said:


> And for you size queens, dont forget this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Shoved under the world's biggest bed? kqoct

W


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I'm very proud that many of the great Canadians are forward thinking peaceful souls. The Men Of The Deeps, Tommy Douglas, Terry Fox, Bethune, Suzuki, Jackson, Leacock, Attwood, Callwood, Bateman, Pierre Burton, and lest we forget, Robert Service. There are so many more, but suffice it to say I'm proud that somehow war-mongering violent people don't figure here.

There are two great little books called HerStory about great Canadian women heroines...worth a visit to the library.

I love my country, the Bruce Peninsula where I came from, and the wonderful other places I've visited, but maybe especially those places I haven't yet been for I know they too will make me proud.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I am not Canadian. I was only "born" in Canada. My late ancestors were from England and their ancestors were Saxons and between them, and Noah and his family I don't know where I "came" from. I am proud though, to say I'm alive and happy. Does that count?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

FlipFlopFly said:


> I am not Canadian. I was only "born" in Canada. My late ancestors were from England and their ancestors were Saxons and between them, and Noah and his family I don't know where I "came" from. I am proud though, to say I'm alive and happy. Does that count?


I dont get itkkjq



> I'm very proud that many of the great Canadians are forward thinking peaceful souls. The Men Of The Deeps, Tommy Douglas, Terry Fox, Bethune, *Suzuki, *Jackson, Leacock, Attwood, Callwood, Bateman, Pierre Burton, and lest we forget, Robert Service. There are so many more, but suffice it to say I'm proud that somehow war-mongering violent people don't figure here.


Look, if you're going to include raving fanatics, how dare you omit Don Cherry :smile:


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## roadman (Jun 24, 2009)

Diablo said:


> I dont get itkkjq
> 
> me neither..:smilie_flagge17:
> 
> Look, if you're going to include raving fanatics, how dare you omit Don Cherry :smile:


yeah come on eh...kksjur


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

What I'm saying is you're only of a certain nationality because of where you're born. For example, we have friends who are Mexican. Two of their daughters were born in Canada but left right after their birth and were brought up in Mexico. Legally they're Canadians. But are they? You couldn't tell from their looks, accent, etc. 

We are who we are because of who we are, who our parents and other family members are. We're all unique. And many countries are named after someone. I don't want to be known by any name except by my given and family names. I'm not sure if I'm stepping over the lines with this question, but wouldn't we all be better off without nationalities attached to us? We wouldn't have any of that "pride" that causes mankind to hate and even kill people in other lands would we?


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

FlipFlopFly said:


> What I'm saying is you're only of a certain nationality because of where you're born. For example, we have friends who are Mexican. Two of their daughters were born in Canada but left right after their birth and were brought up in Mexico. Legally they're Canadians. But are they? You couldn't tell from their looks, accent, etc.
> 
> We are who we are because of who we are, who our parents and other family members are. We're all unique. And many countries are named after someone. I don't want to be known by any name except by my given and family names. I'm not sure if I'm stepping over the lines with this question, but wouldn't we all be better off without nationalities attached to us? We wouldn't have any of that "pride" that causes mankind to hate and even kill people in other lands would we?


 My great, great grandfather emigrated to the USA from Norway. My grandfather who was born in Minnesota walked from there to Saskatchewan in the late 1800's to homestead. My father was born there. I was born in Ontario. I am Canadian with American/Norwegian ancestry but, first and foremost, I am Canadian. My family history was created by my ancestors but my life has been defined by the nation I grew up in. I don't think for a second that pride in my country is a bad thing. True, it was pride that sent millions of young men off to fight and die in two great wars but their sacrifice gave us the freedoms we have today and stopped a madman from killing even millions more. I will never lose the pride I have in Canadians for standing up for what was right nor the gratitude to those young men who made such sacrifices.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

FlipFlopFly said:


> What I'm saying is you're only of a certain nationality because of where you're born. For example, we have friends who are Mexican. Two of their daughters were born in Canada but left right after their birth and were brought up in Mexico. Legally they're Canadians. But are they? You couldn't tell from their looks, accent, etc.
> 
> We are who we are because of who we are, who our parents and other family members are. We're all unique. And many countries are named after someone. I don't want to be known by any name except by my given and family names. I'm not sure if I'm stepping over the lines with this question, but wouldn't we all be better off without nationalities attached to us? We wouldn't have any of that "pride" that causes mankind to hate and even kill people in other lands would we?


Is Canada Day the right time to discuss man's tribal nature and the meaningless of man made borders? And to take your logic one step further, why not dispense with the family connections as well? Shouldn't we all be a part of the same family of humanity?:smilie_flagge17:


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Shouldn't we all be a part of the same family of humanity?:smilie_flagge17:


As long as we get to exclude a few ... say MJ and Brittany ... kkjuw


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...well said!

:bow:




foghorn99 said:


> IMHO....our tolerance and compassion for people who are 'different' than 'us' is what sets us apart from MANY other countries in the world.
> 
> When I say "us"....we are all historically from different backgrounds, different cultures, different circumstances in our family's journey to get here in Canada.
> 
> ...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

One of the things that makes me proud to be a Canadian is that I don't have to be in order to be one. "Don't have to be" doesn't mean ashamed. It means one doesn't have to engage in jingoistic flag-waving to be a solid citizen and top-quality exemplar of this nation. Since the topic comes up often, consider those who serve in our military, and are currently facing the heat of Kandahar. They are not there because they wish to shove Canadian-ness at anyone. They are there to help the Afghanis realize *their* dreams. In their minds, THAT is a Canadian value.

I don't have any flags or bumper-stickers, nor did I waltz around Parliament Hill yesterday with red clothing or anything painted on my face (I stayed home and did laundry and other household chores). But my country is enough for me. I would not live, work, study, vacation, or wish to be buried anywhere else. (And if I drank beer, I would only drink Canadian beer.) I have lived in 6 provinces (visited all 10, the territories are still waiting for me) and on two coasts. I have driven from one end of the country to other, and everything about it is....enough. It doesn't have to be great, or the "best" in anything, it just has to be enough, and that my friends, it does with ease, with grace, and with enough for everyone. The people, the values, the vistas, the promise, the hope, the whole package. It's enough.

And just so you know, when I do my government job every day, I *always* assume I'm doing it for you folks, and that you deserve the best, because as a nation you have given me more than enough.

I mentioned it in another thread, but one of the good things about this country is that, as a nation of primarily immigrants, it is a kind of synthesis of what people from all over the world consider to be the elements of a "good" nation. Even when they are from very far away and different places/cultures, what they love about Canada is that it provides and supports those things that they wished for, but could never find in their country of origin. Our indigenous people, as well, are not monolithic in any sense. They are "the First Nations", and reflect many different traditions and ways of seeing the world. Canada does not have a fundamental singular culture, nor is it better than other nations because of something unique. It is simply a compendium of what everyone strives for. And when you have all the human bases covered, in my mind, that's enough.

So, on Canada Day, I don't celebrate. I just feel really really content.:smile:

And about that Lado, now I finally know what WLOHSC means when I see it in dealer listings in Vintage Guitar magazine: it means "World's Largest Original Hard Shell Case". Why didn't I think of it!:smilie_flagge17:


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)




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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

Robert1950 said:


>


Beauty, eh? :smilie_flagge17:


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Is Canada Day the right time to discuss man's tribal nature and the meaningless of man made borders? And to take your logic one step further, why not dispense with the family connections as well? Shouldn't we all be a part of the same family of humanity?:smilie_flagge17:


...at the risk of derailing this thread, and going down "that" road, i am onside with both milkman and flipflopfly.

society's biggest enemy is the "herd mentality", which leads directly to "our herd is superior to your herd", which leads directly to...well, y'all know the rest, i hope.

-dh


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

david henman said:


> ...at the risk of derailing this thread, and going down "that" road, i am onside with both milkman and flipflopfly.
> 
> society's biggest enemy is the "herd mentality", which leads directly to "our herd is superior to your herd", which leads directly to...well, y'all know the rest, i hope.
> 
> -dh


I think Canada is an excellent example of a country who's pride and accomplishments are carried with great humility. We are not given to the kind of blind patriotism that leads to immodesty and self-absorption. The vast majority of Canadians see our country's cultural mix as a great asset. We're not perfect, but there's nowhere I'd rather live than in this land. Considering the state of global conflict today, IMO a "no borders, I'm OK, your OK" world view is dangerous and illinformed. I certainly hope one day "borders' exist more as a reminder of where we came from and what we cherish. Not to serve as barriers for what we fear. That's a long way off as I see it.

Shawn


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)




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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

*Proud to be a Canadian*

It seems everywhere in the world you are always welcomed when you say you are from Canada.This is the nicest compliment to receive when travelling.Also very proud of our military people who are giving there lifes for us.Its a big country but wherever you travel you always find a bit of home.:smilie_flagge17:


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Rugburn said:


> *I think Canada is an excellent example of a country who's pride and accomplishments are carried with great humility*.
> Shawn


Sometimes I believe this, and sometimes I dont.
there are many times when I think Canadians can be described best with the sentence "Not as ______as we think we are". Off the top of my head I can think of about a half dozen examples....even more if I put some more thought to it.

Vancouver is not as cool as it thinks it is
Toronto is not as all-important as it thinks it is.
Canada as a whole is not as green/eco-friendly/clean/pristine etc as it thinks it is.
Quebec is not as distinct as it thinks it is.
"The West" (Alberta in particular) is not as forgotten/ignored as it thinks it is.
Canada is not as responsible for our less fortunate as we think we are.
Canadians are not as friendly and approachable as we think we are.
And so on...

Not ragging on us, but just saying that sometimes we might buy into our own hype a little more than we should, and it could hamper our own progress.



> The vast majority of Canadians see our country's cultural mix as a great asset.


I actually have a real problem with this. Living in a major urban center it often bothers me that so many Canadians need to think of their parents home countries as primary to their own, as if we are all just passing through Canada, but not really a part of it. Bugs me when people *born here* (or for that matter, citizens) refer to themselves primarily as Italian, Polish, Croatian, Trinidadian, Scottish, Greek, Lebanese etc. We are all Canadian, FIRST, no matter where we come from or how long ago. I think focussing on and exaggerating our "rich diversity" (whatever that means) keeps us separated. This is the one area where I actually believe the US gets it right.
I remember in university many classmates who would never think of enlisting in the Canadian military, having plans to go to the home countries of their parents to fight in whatever strife was going on there at the time, even though they had never lived there and knew very little firsthand of what was going on there at the time other than what they saw on CNN. 
It seems as if the country they had lived in their whole life was the fat ugly chick standing at the end of the bar at 2:15am....Good enough for the night, but you'd never date her.

thank you, I just had to get that off my extremely politically incorrect chest.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Diablo said:


> Living in a major urban center it often bothers me that so many Canadians need to think of their parents home countries as primary to their own, as if we are all just passing through Canada, but not really a part of it. Bugs me when people *born here* (or for that matter, citizens) refer to themselves primarily as Italian, Polish, Croatian, Trinidadian, Scottish, Greek, Lebanese etc. We are all Canadian, FIRST, no matter where we come from or how long ago. I think focussing on and exaggerating our "rich diversity" (whatever that means) keeps us separated. This is the one area where I actually believe the US gets it right.


i understand your frustration with that sort of mentality. it drives me nuts also. however, being an american, i can tell you that i have lived in 12 different states, and you find that same attitude nearly everywhere. the only place i haven't come across it is in a few pockets of the deep south and small parts of appalachia where families have been there so long no one really knows where they came from.


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

Diablo said:


> I actually have a real problem with this. Living in a major urban center it often bothers me that so many Canadians need to think of their parents home countries as primary to their own, as if we are all just passing through Canada, but not really a part of it. Bugs me when people *born here* (or for that matter, citizens) refer to themselves primarily as Italian, Polish, Croatian, Trinidadian, Scottish, Greek, Lebanese etc. We are all Canadian, FIRST, no matter where we come from or how long ago. I think focussing on and exaggerating our "rich diversity" (whatever that means) keeps us separated. This is the one area where I actually believe the US gets it right.
> I remember in university many classmates who would never think of enlisting in the Canadian military, having plans to go to the home countries of their parents to fight in whatever strife was going on there at the time, even though they had never lived there and knew very little firsthand of what was going on there at the time other than what they saw on CNN.
> It seems as if the country they had lived in their whole life was the fat ugly chick standing at the end of the bar at 2:15am....Good enough for the night, but you'd never date her.
> 
> thank you, I just had to get that off my extremely politically incorrect chest.


:thanks5qx:Like Cheezyridr, I also strongly agree with this sentiment. It bugs me when people have been living here longer than they've lived in their home countries and yet when they refer to those countries they say "back home". sigiifa You've been living here for XX number of years longer than your home country? Now I know there'll be people who'll pull out the old platitude of "Home is where the heart is" and I don't disagree with that and as you say, if they were born here then it's even sillier. BTW you're not being *ugh* politically incorrect. (Man, I loathe political correctness.) You're being honest Diablo and that's what more people should be. Anyway, that's all I'll say before I get into trouble for my honesty. :smile:


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2009)

Hyphenated whatever's bug me too.
I'm proud to be an earthling.


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## Eager Beaver (May 31, 2009)

Because we get four seasons.
four REAL seasons.
And it's just plain beautiful here.:smile:


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Eager Beaver said:


> Because we get four seasons.
> four REAL seasons.
> And it's just plain beautiful here.:smile:


Ha Ha .. a friend from Miami says he has four real seasons too. When I asked about not having the leaves change colour he say's " It looks like Miami in a drought "


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## Luke98 (Mar 4, 2007)

Eager Beaver said:


> Because we get four seasons.
> four REAL seasons.
> And it's just plain beautiful here.:smile:


Winter's Coming, Winter, Winter's almost over, and a short summer?


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Luke98 said:


> Winter's Coming, Winter, Winter's almost over, and a short summer?


Nope 

Cut wood 
Pile wood 
Burn wood 
Plan to cut wood


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

Diablo said:


> I actually have a real problem with this. Living in a major urban center it often bothers me that so many Canadians need to think of their parents home countries as primary to their own, as if we are all just passing through Canada, but not really a part of it. Bugs me when people *born here* (or for that matter, citizens) refer to themselves primarily as Italian, Polish, Croatian, Trinidadian, Scottish, Greek, Lebanese etc. We are all Canadian, FIRST, no matter where we come from or how long ago. I think focussing on and exaggerating our "rich diversity" (whatever that means) keeps us separated. This is the one area where I actually believe the US gets it right.
> I remember in university many classmates who would never think of enlisting in the Canadian military, having plans to go to the home countries of their parents to fight in whatever strife was going on there at the time, even though they had never lived there and knew very little firsthand of what was going on there at the time other than what they saw on CNN.
> It seems as if the country they had lived in their whole life was the fat ugly chick standing at the end of the bar at 2:15am....Good enough for the night, but you'd never date her.
> 
> thank you, I just had to get that off my extremely politically incorrect chest.


Well, whether it "really bothers" you or not, Canada is a country made up of many different peoples. I would say more diverse than any other country in the world. People seem stunned when they learn that 70% of the U.S. population is caucasian. We have very different demographics here in Canada. What's funny is much of these "politically correct" terms are American in origin. Like "African-American", "Native American" and "Italian American" etc. Have you seen how many people are suddenly "part Irish" on St Patrick's Day? I agree with *reasonable* accommodation, because in a country like this it's futile otherwise. We all need to abide by the laws and governmental processes of this country. And we need to make these work for the majority of Canadians. We are living in a sort of experiment that seems to be going better here than in most countries with high immigration. My $0,02 worth.

Shawn :smilie_flagge17:


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i doubt if the states is still 70% caucasion with all the illegal mexicans invading the country. still, we don't have nearly the diversity as what can be found here in toronto. not even close. and i doubt we would be able to deal with it very well if we had more than we do. i really like that about toronto. most folks here weren't born here, but it's cool like that. 

don't misunderstand me though, i love the U.S. and i miss being there. 
i'm always gonna call it home. but toronto is nice and there is plenty to like about being here.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Kenmac said:


> :thanks5qx:Like Cheezyridr, I also strongly agree with this sentiment. It bugs me when people have been living here longer than they've lived in their home countries and yet when they refer to those countries they say "back home". sigiifa You've been living here for XX number of years longer than your home country? Now I know there'll be people who'll pull out the old platitude of "Home is where the heart is" and I don't disagree with that and as you say, if they were born here then it's even sillier. BTW you're not being *ugh* politically incorrect. (Man, I loathe political correctness.) You're being honest Diablo and that's what more people should be. Anyway, that's all I'll say before I get into trouble for my honesty. :smile:


...so-called "political correctness", since a couple of folks brought it up, is about being sensitive to "other" cultures, "other" races. "other" sexualities, "other" religions (or non-religions) etc etc etc.

while i agree that some take it too far, i have a very difficult time understanding what is so terribly awful about tolerance, acceptance and understanding of diversity.

and while i respect that you are guys are not guilty of this, i have discovered that most of the people who whine about "political correctness" are just bitter because they can no longer freely express their "feelings" about non-whites, gays, non-males, foreigners etc.

-dh


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

david henman said:


> and while i respect that you are guys are not guilty of this, i have discovered that most of the people who whine about "political correctness" are just bitter because _they can no longer freely express their "feelings" about non-whites, gays, non-males, foreigners etc._
> 
> -dh


Interesting comment. I find that this is correct. But the key statement here is that the only thing that has changed is that they no longer "freely" express the feelings. Meaning that nothing has changed in terms of the actual feelings themselves. To condemn someone for their honest feelings can create other long term issues. We are becoming a nation that has to sit back and really think about what we want to say because it may be condemed by the thought police.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I will restate an earlier comment I made: "..._one of the good things about this country is that, as a nation of primarily immigrants, it is a kind of synthesis of what people from all over the world consider to be the elements of a "good" nation. Even when they are from very far away and different places/cultures, what they love about Canada is that it provides and supports those things that they wished for, but could never find in their country of origin. ....Canada does not have a fundamental singular culture, nor is it better than other nations because of something unique. It is simply a compendium of what everyone strives for. _"

Within that context, I have absolutely no problem with someone being a Canadian citizen and retaining their sentimental ties to Ghana, Croatia, Malaysia, Jamaica, Bangladesh, or Peru, and referring to themselves as a "Croatian-Canadian" or "Italo-Canadian", because to me they still see Canada as the embodiment of something wonderful that they wish would exist everywhere. That's not dishonouring Canada in any way. And if all the people who come here from somewhere else would like to have a little leeway recognized in the law, and maybe in the produce section at Loblaws, and the history curriculum at school, that's still fine with me, because they think of canada as a place where this is possible. That's NOT at all the same as thinking that somehow Canada is not good enough, as some might propose the mindset of immigrants to be.

Of course, by the same token, every bit as much as those who have emigrated to Canada had/have a mental image of "the ideal nation" in their minds, those who grew up here also have a mental schema of their beloved Canada. That mental schema is not unlike the person who may have grown up on the outskirts of the city, when there were big wide open spaces between neighbours, and now finds themselves inundated with single-family dwellings crammed in as the outskirts becomes the 'burbs. There's nothing implicitly wrong with people wanting a home, but it just isn't what the original inhabitants grew up with or the image of "their neighbourhood". So, they grumble. Just like adult kids grumble when dad, who has grown weary of being lonely since mom died years ago, decides to remarry. Just like so many OTHER types of grumbling that result from "It's not what I grew up with!".

I accept that people will grumble, and understand their discomfort and tendency to say and do awkard and even unpleasant things as a result. Where I draw the line is when they decline to accept that the world changes on the surface but still adheres to the same cherished beliefs underneath. I don't accept when they confuse the superficial with the fundamental, and plug their ears when anyone tries to tell them that they have done so.

Canada was, and remains, an excellent idea and ideal that supercedes culture, language, geography, and government administrations. Much of that idea is also embodied in our neighbours to the south, but I think we have gone a few steps ahead of them, largely because our much smaller population density gives us some conceptual breathing space.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

Well, this went further than I expected would be allowed. I was born in Quebec and have lived in Sherbrooke, Montreal, Ottawa, Kingston, Toronto, Kitchener-Waterloo, Guelph and Calgary. How "intergrated" disparate cultures were, varied quite a bit from city to city. As the years have gone by attitudes have changed, populations have shifted culturally and so forth in these cities. One thing has remained the same......most Canadians of European background believe Canada's values are based on their life experience culturally, religiously and socially. They are predominantly the one's who see immigration as out of control and the political process overly accommodating. Interestingly in such a young country so many Canadians in only a handful of generations have essentially "lost" their roots. They are now "Canadian" enough to be fearful of visible minorities and the influence they could have on what they believe are Canadian values, culture and society. I tend to agree with mhammer's opinion, but when you have so many different people under one umbrella you need rules. Whether it's Sikhs on the west coast fighting each other with swords over sitting on chairs or on carpets at their temples, or hardline muslim clerics pushing for Shariah Law in Canada, we have to be prepared to say this is the law of this land. Period.

Shawn


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

There is, unfortunately, another side to this coin. Being in a border town and having a wife who works in social services, all too often I hear about "new" Canadians who are coming here, taking advantage of our social assistance programs, milking the system for all they can get and then returning to <insert name of home nation>. I'm not trying to stir the pot but this kind of crap just infuriates me.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Big_Daddy said:


> There is, unfortunately, another side to this coin. Being in a border town and having a wife who works in social services, all too often I hear about "new" Canadians who are coming here, taking advantage of our social assistance programs, milking the system for all they can get and then returning to <insert name of home nation>. I'm not trying to stir the pot but this kind of crap just infuriates me.


They learn everything they know from *old* Canadians doing the same thing....


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...we do expect newcomers to abide by our laws.

there is little dispute about that, except in those instances where we see a potential need to change a law that interferes with their freedoms as new canadians.

where the disputes arise is when we expect them to give up their cultural values and habits. that is something we should welcome and embrace, not reject, ridicule or discriminate against.

-dh




Rugburn said:


> Well, this went further than I expected would be allowed. I was born in Quebec and have lived in Sherbrooke, Montreal, Ottawa, Kingston, Toronto, Kitchener-Waterloo, Guelph and Calgary. How "intergrated" disparate cultures were, varied quite a bit from city to city. As the years have gone by attitudes have changed, populations have shifted culturally and so forth in these cities. One thing has remained the same......most Canadians of European background believe Canada's values are based on their life experience culturally, religiously and socially. They are predominantly the one's who see immigration as out of control and the political process overly accommodating. Interestingly in such a young country so many Canadians in only a handful of generations have essentially "lost" their roots. They are now "Canadian" enough to be fearful of visible minorities and the influence they could have on what they believe are Canadian values, culture and society. I tend to agree with mhammer's opinion, but when you have so many different people under one umbrella you need rules. Whether it's Sikhs on the west coast fighting each other with swords over sitting on chairs or on carpets at their temples, or hardline muslim clerics pushing for Shariah Law in Canada, we have to be prepared to say this is the law of this land. Period.
> 
> Shawn


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> They learn everything they know from *old* Canadians doing the same thing....


...precisely!

-dh


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Big_Daddy said:


> There is, unfortunately, another side to this coin. Being in a border town and having a wife who works in social services, all too often I hear about "new" Canadians who are coming here, taking advantage of our social assistance programs, milking the system for all they can get and then returning to <insert name of home nation>. I'm not trying to stir the pot but this kind of crap just infuriates me.


A much larger share spend a lot to come here, look in vain for work that is commensurate with their credentials and training, and critical for supporting their family, and end up being under-employed. Small wonder some might say "You know, it was better back home".

There are also some whose notion of what Canada would be like was sorely misinformed, and are disappointed. And there are some whose need to be surrounded by the accoutrements of their culture of origin was a lot stronger than they realized.

And as shoretyus rightly points out, if there is any exploitation of the social safety net, exploitation by new Canadians pales in comparison to exploitation by those who think they are owed something by virtue of being "real" Canadians.

The boundaries between being a refugee and being an economic immigrant are fuzzy. I strongly doubt that any country has a handle on how to properly define and process such requests. Moreover, since the nations that people leave from to come to Canada are generally not in a strong position to document anything (or decline to either do so, or willingly provide evidence of anything), the proper classification of those trying to enter Canada is problematic. If they were all coming from Sweden (the birthplace of social records) that would be one thing....but they aren't.

I used to teach at an English CEGEP in Hull, across the river from Ottawa. Under the Quebec system, they couldn't charge the same sorts of tuition fees that Ontario community colleges charge for the same programs. Of course, since the province was not running to take on hundreds of Ontario anglophone students who would each put $150 into the coffers of la belle province, while costing the provincial education system millions, the school NEVER advertised their programs in English newspapers. It needed more students to stay alive, yet constantly hovered at the edge of viability in terms of overall enrollment because the local captive anglophone populace wasn't large enough.

Canada is in an analogous position. We need immigrants to kick some venture capital into the economy, but we also need people to take on the crap jobs that more established Canadians don't want. How on earth do you market that in a manner that nets you the "right" amount of people? Moreover, how do we remain a nation of good social conscience, with medicare and education for all, while bringing in people in droves who will contribute only a bit to the economy, yet still need costly services like ESL training (or its French equivalent)? Ya can't live without refugee claimants, but you can't take 'em all in either. 

In the meantime, we're not sure how to market ourselves. Play up the boundless opportunity angle to attract immigrants who might contribute more to the economy and you over-attract those who figure "Surely those people will show me kindness in my desperation" or "Even the worst circumstance there has to be better than where I am now". Present a face that emphasizes caution in coming to Canada, and you may reduce refugee claims but you also scare away that venture capital arriving in the form of corner stores and such.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

david henman said:


> ...we do expect newcomers to abide by our laws.
> 
> there is little dispute about that, except in those instances where we see a potential need to change a law that interferes with their freedoms as new canadians.
> 
> ...


There has to be a line drawn somewhere. I think that is what some people might be saying. I remember a huge dispute over in Dearborn, MI that I used to read about alot when I (semi-lived) in Auburn Hills for all those years. there is a ever growing Muslim community in Dearborn and they had been wanting for a long time to use the City emergency PA system to broadcast it's "call to prayer" 5 times a day. They eventually got city council to approve it against many complaints from citizens. So where do you draw the line? You try to accomodate one set of individuals but it is usually at the expense of another.

This example involves ones religion, but there are many examples you could draw from.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

david henman said:


> ...we do expect newcomers to abide by our laws.
> 
> there is little dispute about that, except in those instances where we see a potential need to change a law that interferes with their freedoms as new canadians.
> 
> ...


I generally agree with this. The examples I sited are ones in which accommodation would infringe on the rights and safety of this country's citizens. Sharia Law would effectively remove the rights of women guaranteed under the Charter and punishable under our criminal law. Wielding swords and *using* them is against the law. Frankly, what people do in respect to their beliefs and cultural observances is their business. As far as where to draw the line, I think that's a fair question. In fact I'll say that it's going to be *the question* many, many countries will find themselve's asking of their peoples sooner than later.

Shawn


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

Wow, I'm a really, really slow typer


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> There has to be a line drawn somewhere. I think that is what some people might be saying. I remember a huge dispute over in Dearborn, MI that I used to read about alot when I (semi-lived) in Auburn Hills for all those years. there is a ever growing Muslim community in Dearborn and they had been wanting for a long time to use the City emergency PA system to broadcast it's "call to prayer" 5 times a day. They eventually got city council to approve it against many complaints from citizens. So where do you draw the line? You try to accomodate one set of individuals but it is usually at the expense of another.
> 
> This example involves ones religion, but there are many examples you could draw from.


...taking it to a personal level, i don't like to see people create "herds". we whites have been guilty of this and, of course, we see it happening with new immigrants who create their own communities, schools, churches etc etc etc.

but, like the many diverse cultures that came before them, they will ultimately assimilate and become part of the canadian cultural "quilt".

-dh


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

shoretyus said:


> They learn everything they know from *old* Canadians doing the same thing....


I don't think they actually _*learn*_ it from old Canadians but there is no denying that we have a huge welfare problem in this country. As in any society that has social assistance programs, there are going to be the lazy-ass bums who will expend more energy trying to bilk the system than they would looking for and keeping a steady job. It has become a generational issue in Canada...kids born into welfare families who don't know any other way of life and just carry on living "in the system" because their parents did it. I certainly didn't mean to imply that it was only new Canadians that were the only culprits.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

david henman said:


> ...taking it to a personal level, i don't like to see people create "herds". we whites have been guilty of this and, of course, we see it happening with new immigrants who create their own communities, schools, churches etc etc etc.
> 
> but, like the many diverse cultures that came before them, they will ultimately assimilate and become part of the canadian cultural "quilt".
> 
> -dh


Agreed. Thats the way it seems to go though. Most major cities have their "sections" and when walking through them you could swear you were just transported to another country. Will that change someday? probably not in our lifetimes but until it does, we will continue to have a lot of "us and them" thinking. I find there is a huge difference between what some people "view" and "mandate" as a perfect world and what they are personally willing to sacrifice for it. As for me, if they start using the loudspeakers in Thorold for anything other than the intended purpose of them I will be the first one slinking up the thing at 3:00 in the morning and blowing it to kingdom come. :wave:


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

mhammer said:


> A much larger share spend a lot to come here, look in vain for work that is commensurate with their credentials and training, and critical for supporting their family, and end up being under-employed. Small wonder some might say "You know, it was better back home".
> 
> There are also some whose notion of what Canada would be like was sorely misinformed, and are disappointed. And there are some whose need to be surrounded by the accoutrements of their culture of origin was a lot stronger than they realized.
> 
> ...


Well said and I agree 100%.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

personally - I like that I can wander over to Woodbridge for the best Italian food on earth - or scoot on over to Markham and be delighted with the most excellent asian food choices - i.e. East Indian - LOVIN THE CURRY....or a great bowl of Vietnamese rice noodle soup......and c'mon back her to Oshawa and enjoy the best polish / Ukranian food money can buy

if Immigrants are creating "herds" or sub communities - makes it easier for me to find the good food! I don't even care if they don't speak English - I just point to the picture on the menu!

a fringe benefit of our multi cultural society.......

did I mention I'm hungry?


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

lbrown1 said:


> personally - I like that I can wander over to Woodbridge for the best Italian food on earth - or scoot on over to Markham and be delighted with the most excellent asian food choices - i.e. East Indian - LOVIN THE CURRY....or a great bowl of Vietnamese rice noodle soup......and c'mon back her to Oshawa and enjoy the best polish / Ukranian food money can buy
> 
> if Immigrants are creating "herds" or sub communities - makes it easier for me to find the good food! I don't even care if they don't speak English - I just point to the picture on the menu!
> 
> ...


I was thinking the same thing. I love going to Chinatown, Little Italy the Danforth etc. People in other countries have to go to Disneyland type places for this experience. Here it's a way of life, and the food is *WAY, WAY* better than Disneyworld/land!!


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

the difference here is, the immigration is done legally. the immigrant has a different attitude when coming here. in the states, that is not always the case. that's one thing i hope can be avoided here.

for example:

in the states there was a mexican family who lived next door to me. they were very nice and friendly. i used to fix their boy's bike from time to time. i even gave him one. he used to come over and hand me tools when i worked on the car or motorcycle. i helped them carry heavy things like new furniture, etc. they gave me home cooked food a time or two. we would run each other to get car parts sometimes. 

about 35% (i am guessing, it might have been more) of the neighborhood were illegals. there were gangs, a whorehouse, many of the stores began to put up signs in spanish. no english signs, just spanish.
the illegals won't talk to you. if you go into "their" corner grocery, you better speak spanish, and be prepared to be ignored if there are mexican customers in the store. they took over the laundromat. you had to go across town to wash clothes because women would come there and do wash for several families at once, monopolizing the equipment. trying to sneak in a load created dangerous tension, sometimes fights. the car wash became a hangout for gang types. the supermarket became unbearable.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

here in Japan whenever a member of the US armed forces does something bad...rape, murder, robbery, assault etcetc...and it happens frequently though not recently...out come the maple leaf flags...on t-shirts, backpacks, lapel pins, jackets...because we`re just so freakin` proud...we`re not Americans. No offence intended but they think all white people are Americans in this city and after a situation like those mentioned above, we`re just trying to make sure the locals know the difference expecially when the US military comes up here once a year for training with the Japanese SDF forces. But I must add...I`ve met quite a few in the downtown area when they are up here and they`ve been nothing but real polite to me so it just takes a few bad apples.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i know the incidents you are talking about. it's embarrasing.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

lbrown1 said:


> personally - I like that I can wander over to Woodbridge for the best Italian food on earth - or scoot on over to Markham and be delighted with the most excellent asian food choices - i.e. East Indian - LOVIN THE CURRY....or a great bowl of Vietnamese rice noodle soup......and c'mon back her to Oshawa and enjoy the best polish / Ukranian food money can buy
> 
> if Immigrants are creating "herds" or sub communities - makes it easier for me to find the good food! I don't even care if they don't speak English - I just point to the picture on the menu!
> 
> ...



Sure but you know what? This is nothing new! I come from Cape Breton and there have always been pockets of communities, The jewish folk live here, the Italians live over there, the black people live there ect... Ultimately you want to be where you are welcome and comfortable no? I don't think it happens deliberately, but for instance when I moved here I moved where there was a certain number of "Coasters" 

And yeah it makes it easier to know where to go to get the best Greek, Italian, Polish, Chinese, Indian food! Viva La Difference!


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

in Japan they have really nice plastic food...I mean you can point to a dish in the window and sometimes it looks almost real. One time when we went to Tokyo we visited the are where they make that plastic food and we bought some...I have a couple of parfaits, send some pasta home to my sisters kids for Christmas one year, we have drinks...I bought some sushi key chains too. Pretty cool stuff.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> Sure but you know what? This is nothing new! I come from Cape Breton and there have always been pockets of communities, The jewish folk live here, the Italians live over there, the black people live there ect... Ultimately you want to be where you are welcome and comfortable no? I don't think it happens deliberately, but for instance when I moved here I moved where there was a certain number of "Coasters"
> 
> And yeah it makes it easier to know where to go to get the best Greek, Italian, Polish, Chinese, Indian food! Viva La Difference!


I think I'm gonna run on down to the local Polish pavilion right now and grab some perogies for lunch!

as for me - I'm your typical Scottish / Irish descent dude....my descendants - too long ago to track down from either side of my family were / are all from Bobcageon - most that are still alive are still there....so - I AM CANADIAN!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Milkman said:


> Shouldn't we all be a part of the same family of humanity?


Yes. It would get rid of much of the hatred and bigotry, would it not?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

cheezyridr said:


> the difference here is, the immigration is done legally. the immigrant has a different attitude when coming here. in the states, that is not always the case.


Cheezy: The immigration is done legally here? Do you know how many "illegal" immigrants there are in Canada? The last estimate was in the hundreds of thousands. Regards, Flip.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

this has been the first time being a minority for me, and I think everyone who has racial issues should try being a minority for a while, I bet that would sure change some views. I grew up in a bilingual home, multiculturalism is something we Canadians should be proud of. I was talking to some Bulgarians one night over here and they were discussing the problems they have among the different ethnic groups and I said we pretty much don`t have those back home and they said yeah... you`re lucky...you`re Canadian, but I thought...luck has nothing to do with it, ya just gotta let go eh, it`ll eat you alive...or start a world war.


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