# Profanity in lyrics



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

how do you feel about swearing/curse words in lyrics?

Although I think it's somewhat cheap and lazy, I'm fine with it, in certain genres, punk, metal etc.

But today when in the car with my wife and 6yr old, my wife starts playing some songs by Pink.
One of them was a fairly big hit, where right in the chorus, she says "SHIT" clearly and loudly at least 25 times through the song. I'm no prude, but for Top 40 music in heavy rotation, that kids listen to, it made me uncomfortable. And as an artist, do you really want your songs to be censored for radio play with a split second of dead air over certain words? It's not exactly great for the musical integrity or listen ability of the song.
I'm remember an Avril lavigne song with a couple words censored for airplay as well, but it was nowhere as indulgent.
Maybe a coincidence, but both gals see themselves as much more hardcore than their hits would suggest, so perhaos they're just trying to show us what "bad girls" they can be, while being played on contemporary pop stations?
Thoughts?


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

While I've used enough of it on my own... I don't care to hear it in music. I cant stand listening to excessive amounts in comedy either (Eddy Murphy Raw, Andrew Dice Clay, Howard Stern etc)
I was annoyed that Q107 stooped to to airing Stern on the morning show in the 90's. My wife dropped the kids in the car and ran back in to grab something...when she got back in the car, she didn't realize Q was on and they were talking about how the Mom of one of the workers (on the show) liked anal. 
I have no problem with radio/tv censorship before 10 or 11pm


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Most of the time I find it's unnecessary, and almost always just a lazy way to seek attention.

And with kids in the house, car, etc. there are a number of songs that I have deleted from my playlist, or simply not purchased. 

However, I'm more concerned with songs that glorify violence, misogyny, etc. even when there isn't foul language.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Its got its place but I agree with artists that have more influence with a younger demographic that it is in bad taste. One of my favorite lines is from a propaghandi tune. Punk, metal or whatever if it flows it goes. I like blurred lines (the video mostly) and think it fits but can attract the wrong (younger) audience because its so catchy. Clearly not intended for that audience but kids pick up on all sorts of stuff. I DJ weddings (last night was a Johovaha religious group) and sometimes it bugs me that I cant play the unedited version but they are paying me good money so I suck it up. 

I don't believe in sheltering kids too much, I say some things unaware that my 3 yr old might be listening because a) sometimes I have no filter and b) its become somewhat habitual in everyday conversation. If its used in proper context I don't mind. My wife and brother come to mind that throw f bombs in conversation that just seem out of place and unnecessary. My son has picked up on some of the french cursing that I use when he's around and dont want to use english words; first happened in Ottawa after some dick cut me off and I unleashed a barrage of french cursing. He was probably under 2 at the time and kept saying tadunac; my wife and I couldnt contain ourselves and I think he just said it more to get a rise out of us. She got some of it on video on her phone, I would post it if I had it on my cpu right now.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

I am against censorship of all kinds. Let stupidity speak for itself. You can figure it out.

Tough job protecting kids thats for sure. They can figure it out, but need your guidance on top of the situation.

If you are going to use the eff word there are three important rules developed by the tradesmen of Canada:

1) every effin noun should be preceeded by the eff word
2) every effin verb should be effin preceeded by the eff word
3) every effin big word should be effin broken every two syllaeffinbles.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

There is just no need for it. 

Profanity is the sign of a weak mind trying to express itself forcibly.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

It is expression and we are free to do so. Even if just for dramatic flair. Does it make my mind weaker, fuck no.

Does prescribing to a religion (Jehovah witness) hijack a weak mind that then is forcibly confined to the religion? 

In the news recently a new mom to be died because she wouldn't accept the life saving measures that were available because her religion ( Jehovah witness) forbode it. For fucks sakes get over the whole religion bullshit and put your newborn childs' place as the first goddamn priority in your life.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

This thread is about profanity, not religion?


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

KapnKrunch said:


> I am against censorship of all kinds. Let stupidity speak for itself. You can figure it out.
> 
> Tough job protecting kids thats for sure. They can figure it out, but need your guidance on top of the situation.
> 
> ...


 As a tradesman myself, I've used my share. However there's a time and place for everything and that includes in the shop or work environment. I like to think that there's tradesmen and there's professional tradesmen. 
I give a higher respect to those who conduct themselves as the latter. I do realize that tradespeople vary from trade to trade. The coarser the trade, the coarser the language it seems. (and I'm not knocking anybodys trades)


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

My wife listens to Drake. He uses the N word in every song. It's completely unnecessary and my kids haven't heard that word yet, we don't say it ever, and we aren't racists. It's one thing to argue that black culture has taken that word back, but it'd be another thing if my 8 year old went to school and said it. So accordingly, I control the playlist at home and no rap music gets played unless we are alone (which is fine because even without that word, I don't care for Drake's music or rap music really at all).


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

bw66 said:


> Most of the time I find it's unnecessary, and almost always just a lazy way to seek attention.
> 
> And with kids in the house, car, etc. there are a number of songs that I have deleted from my playlist, or simply not purchased.
> 
> However, I'm more concerned with songs that glorify violence, misogyny, etc. even when there isn't foul language.


Agreed.

However, I can be lazy enough to use cuss words. It's easiest when faced with defeat, frustration, pointlessness, hate, violence, deceit, and powerlessness. In a world where I feel like I'm always swimming upstream, it's easy.

Kids are picking up the language regardless of exposure to popular music, likely from parents, movies, peers, etc. From what I hear in public, they use the words but have little understanding of their effect.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

The exposure to it over the past decade has certainly changed the generations coming up with it. When we were teens those words were always kept within the circle, never around adults. Today teens will use that language anywhere they are, public or not and see absolutely nothing wrong with it. I don't like it myself it makes me feel very awkward if I am talking to a teen and every second word out of their mouth is f*&^. It just weird's me out. This is all down to media of one sort or the other. I can remember back when the first albums had that language and the uproar over it. Now it's commonplace.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

If you think your 10 year old doesnt swear like a sailor at recess, I have news for you.

Teach your kids about where swearing would be understood and where it should never be said.

The kids two doors down cant be older than 12, and they swear almost as bad as my coworkers. Since theres less censorship in pop culture in general, I'd guess thats why kids feel much more comfortable swearing in public. Damn and Shit used to be beeped out, not any more.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Scotty said:


> I give a higher respect to those who conduct themselves as the latter. I do realize that tradespeople vary from trade to trade. The coarser the trade, the coarser the language it seems. (and I'm not knocking anybodys trades)


So true Scotty. 

As a welder I worked with different tradesmen in a variety of settings: construction, fabricating and repair. Repairs are the dirtiest, most uncomfortable and frustrating. Hence the worst language. 

Like everyone, I enjoying fabricating. HOWEVER: "It's repairs that separates the men from the boys." 

Can repairs be done without cursing? Probably, but not likely.

Not to undermine your point though. You are right.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I think profanity can be a useful tool to get attention to something important you may be trying to say in your lyrics...if used sparingly. Using it so often that it becomes white noise is another issue.


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2016)




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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

To me it's a tough question. Profanity has it's uses, and can really help make a point but it can also just be gratuitous posturing BS. It's not always clear which case it is, but even with a non-gratuitous use, sometimes it comes off better than others.

Like I get and accept the one meager curse in Hurt by NIN, but it is really awkward how he enunciates the word and it comes off lame (the Cash cover is a bit better in that regard, but the line is what it is; never feels right to me, but I realise that one would be hard pressed to find a better word to put in there). But then there's $Viral$ by Tonnetta (sorry, that's a bit obscure but I use it because it's such a great example) were it totally works despite the sheer volume of cursing and vulgar subject matter in general. He's Canadian FYI.






I have used the odd curse in my own writing, but do try to stay away from it unless necessary aso it tends to be very infrequent.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

As a child of the 60's/70's (I have to waffle 'cause neither generation will have me), I curse as an exclamation point. But I/we grew up in a world where "Get high with a little help from my friends" cause a song to get banned from radio airplay. Star Star didn't get any play, if I recall. And now that's tame by today's standards. 

People of the 80's and 90's have a different standard. Swearing is no longer an exclamation point, it just a part of general conversation, on a bus or in a restaurant or at xmas dinner. I don't know what they're going to use when they really have to express frustration or anger or whatever. All the swearwords have been re-allocated.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Granny Gremlin said:


> To me it's a tough question. Profanity has it's uses, and can really help make a point but it can also just be gratuitous posturing BS. It's not always clear which case it is, but even with a non-gratuitous use, sometimes it comes off better than others.
> 
> Like I get and accept the one meager curse in Hurt by NIN, but it is really awkward how he enunciates the word and it comes off lame (the Cash cover is a bit better in that regard, but the line is what it is; never feels right to me, but I realise that one would be hard pressed to find a better word to put in there). But then there's $Viral$ by Tonnetta (sorry, that's a bit obscure but I use it because it's such a great example) were it totally works despite the sheer volume of cursing and vulgar subject matter in general. He's Canadian FYI.
> 
> ...


Now that shit was offensive and I didnt even get to the lyrics!


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2016)

High/Deaf said:


> Star Star didn't get any play, if I recall.


Setting; highschool talent show at an all boys catholic school.
Our sister all girl highschool's band concert was on the same night.
The principal of that school wouldn't allow us to sell tickets there because of it.
The head penguin did show up at our talent show as a representative.
We played 'star, star' and dedicated it to her, but, sang 'strutter' instead.
One of our teachers knew the song and gave us heck afterwards anyways.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Lord-Humongous said:


> My wife listens to Drake. He uses the N word in every song. It's completely unnecessary and my kids haven't heard that word yet, we don't say it ever, and we aren't racists. It's one thing to argue that black culture has taken that word back, but it'd be another thing if my 8 year old went to school and said it. So accordingly, I control the playlist at home and no rap music gets played unless we are alone (which is fine because even without that word, I don't care for Drake's music or rap music really at all).


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Oh,... poopy!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

laristotle said:


> Setting; highschool talent show at an all boys catholic school.
> Our sister all girl highschool's band concert was on the same night.
> The principal of that school wouldn't allow us to sell tickets there because of it.
> The head penguin did show up at our talent show as a representative.
> ...


Now who made you do that? Who could it possibly be? Could it be, maybe, I dunno, maybe


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I know the thread is regarding swear words in lyrics, but like others have mentioned, it breaks down to censorship. I've never believed in censorship, leave it up to the artist and their fans to recognize the virtues themselves.

A different time and era, but a supreme case in point comes to mind after I read "No One Here Gets Out Alive" in grade 8.....some of you guys know the story. Those who don't should look it up sometime:


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Nine Inch Nails song closer stands out as a curse song to me but it was a good tune for strippers to dance to back in the day. I myself am trying to take the F bomb out of my vocabulary.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Fuckin love it gotta fucking have it. What the fuck would punk be with out it eh?..............


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Budda said:


> If you think your 10 year old doesnt swear like a sailor at recess, I have news for you.
> 
> Teach your kids about where swearing would be understood and where it should never be said.
> 
> The kids two doors down cant be older than 12, and they swear almost as bad as my coworkers. Since theres less censorship in pop culture in general, I'd guess thats why kids feel much more comfortable swearing in public. Damn and Shit used to be beeped out, not any more.


I called an older kid down the street a son a of a whore in my childhood, before I knew what whore meant. He learned me I tell ya.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I'm against it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

We call musicians "artists". The implicit assumption in use of that term is that they are doing something _creative_. Given all the great instrumental music in the world, there is certainly no _requirement_ that any lyrics be brilliant for it to qualify as "creative" or "art". I know I certainly have my share of tunes that I love, without paying any attention to the lyrics, only to find out eventually what the lyrics are and be sorely disappointed. Still, I think the general contention is that if a musician deigns to include lyrics with a piece of music, they are going to be somewhere within spitting distance of the level of creativity shown for the music. A few weeks ago, we were mourning the passing of Leonard Cohen, a guy who chose each and every word with the precision and delicacy of a surgeon, and celebrating Bob Dylan's receipt of the Nobel for Literature. Clearly, we have deep admiration for people who pay close attention to the art of selecting those words that will complement their music.

So....does the musician use profanity in a way that _serves_ the song in a creative fashion, or not? I'm reminded here of the Prince tune "Let's Pretend We're Married" ( 



 ). While Prince was certainly known for his exaltation of full-on sensuality and sexuality, the guy was generally very clean with his lyrics, considering the content. With only a few exceptions, the naughtiness was generally in the ideas and not the words used. But in the aforementioned song, he waits for well over 6 minutes of coy but clean lyrics in a 7-minute song, before nearly exploding when he declares after a tense persistent beat that "I wanna, I wanna, I wanna...I wanna **** you. I sincerely want to *** the taste right out of your mouth". Not what I'd hope to hear on AM radio, and not what I'd play at the office Christmas party, or listen to in the car with my sons or my sister, but I think about how and where he uses the language, and acknowledge that he made tactical use, not because he didn't have any other lyrical choices available, not to convey anger, but because the guy is using his choice of words to indicate a transition from self-restraint to unbridled lust, which is the overall gist of the song and all the other cleaner lyrics in it.

Cee Lo's song-of-the-summer from a few years ago is another good example of making a conscious choice to use naughty words in a tactical way. The "unclean" version of the song deliberately uses the harshest language the singer can imagine to convey the deep resentment and spite he feels at being jilted for the most superficial of reasons. Here's some cleaner radio-friendly Cee Lo for ya:





I'm a longtime fan of 60's beat-poet Egyptological obscenifiers, The Fugs. ( The Fugs - Wikipedia ) They were often lumped in with early Frank Zappa, but were actually fairly different, insomuch as they were far more literary, and the music simply came along after. They shared more in common with Henry Miller, William Burroughs, and Allan Ginsberg than with Frank and the boys. Inserting passages from Matthew Arnold, and the Illiad (in Greek), they would push the boundaries of taste and proper language, often when dealing with political topics. Some of you may know them from their song "CIA Man" over the closing credits in the Coen Brothers film _Burn After Reading_. Here's one that seems as topical today as it was in 1969, and still as unsafe for work as it would have been then. Again, the language is chosen tactically, to shock and express contempt. The musicians include then-band-member Danny Kortchmar, whom many will know for producing Don Henley, and playing on just about every NYC and So-Cal singer-songwriter's album in the early 70's: Taylor, King, Browne, Zevon, Souther, Ronstadt, Crosby, et al.





When musicians use words that show they couldn't care less for the miracle of language, no matter which language, I'm offended. Doesn't matter if it's naughty words or if it's Britney Spears or Justin Bieber yammering "Baby, baby, baby"; throw my language in the garbage can and you're gonna have to deal with me, buddy.

But all of that neglects the other aspect of timing, airplay, and music as a social event. And as a social event, one ought to keep one's language as clean as the dignity of present company requires.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Is there anything you're not good at mhammer? Brilliant synopsis there!

Made my day.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

mhammer said:


> ...as a social event, one ought to keep one's language as clean as the dignity of present company requires.


Beautiful summer day. Middle of a Saturday afternoon. Small prairie town. 

We are setting up on a trailer for an outdoor event that evening.

Bandmate decides that it would be cool to test the PA by saying "mothereffer" over and over again in each microphone.

IQ on the Richter Scale.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> As a child of the 60's/70's (I have to waffle 'cause neither generation will have me), I curse as an exclamation point. But I/we grew up in a world where "Get high with a little help from my friends" cause a song to get banned from radio airplay. Star Star didn't get any play, if I recall. And now that's tame by today's standards.
> 
> People of the 80's and 90's have a different standard. Swearing is no longer an exclamation point, it just a part of general conversation, on a bus or in a restaurant or at xmas dinner. I don't know what they're going to use when they really have to express frustration or anger or whatever. All the swearwords have been re-allocated.


Far F'in Out Man!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

cboutilier said:


> I called an older kid down the street a son a of a whore in my childhood, before I knew what whore meant. He learned me I tell ya.


I told my mom to go to hell and the old man heard me. I do believe I slid about 10 to 15 ft. down a hardwood floor on my back.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I tend not use profanity--for a variety of reasons--but at some points in my life I did use it.
Whenever I've written lyrics I tend to not use profanity--mostly because I don't normally use it in speaking, but also because while my main goal is to write stuff I like--why limit the audience?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

So, when our eldest was around 4, he comes home after daycare and asks "Daddy, what's a nassel?" "A nassel?" "Yah, cuz Keegan called me a f**ki nassel". Seizing the moment, I say "Let's look it up in the dictionary and see what it means". So we do and it turns out to be part of a jet airplane ( Nacelle - Wikipedia ). I say, "Well that makes no sense. Why would he tell you that you were part of an airplane?". Content with that assessment of the nonsensicle features of his playmate's use of language, he dismisses it and forgets all about it. Happily, what he remembers is that dictionaries are pretty cool books and can make some things in life clearer.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I find it interesting, now that I think of it, that I don't think I've ever sworn on stage in front of an audience. I swear like a Mother F'er every day, but never really in a music situation. Not even when jamming or rehearsing come to think of it. I guess I use my musical vocabulary instead. I'm not much of a lyricist but I'm not sure I'd even include them in a tune....maybe if the theme of it called for it though.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Budda said:


> If you think your 10 year old doesnt swear like a sailor at recess, I have news for you.
> 
> *Teach your kids about where swearing would be understood and where it should never be said.*
> 
> The kids two doors down cant be older than 12, and they swear almost as bad as my coworkers. Since theres less censorship in pop culture in general, I'd guess thats why kids feel much more comfortable swearing in public. Damn and Shit used to be beeped out, not any more.


heres the thing, Budda....from a kids perspective, who is more compelling to them, their favorite entertainment celebs, or "boring old mom and dad who aren't cool any more and don't know what its like these days"?
we all know kids do or will know these words...its giving them the sense that its ok to use them casually and out of context, that's the problem. as others have said, when it becomes commonplace, that's the issue.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

KapnKrunch said:


> *I am against censorship of all kinds.* Let stupidity speak for itself. You can figure it out.


im going to take you literally here, cuz you made a bold statement....so you would be fine with someone masturbating in a park near a childrens playground for example? obviously that not the topic here, but restricting someone from this could be construed as a from of censorship, esp if he called it "performance art" lol


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Distortion said:


> Nine Inch Nails song closer stands out as a curse song to me but it was a good tune for strippers to dance to back in the day. I myself am trying to take the F bomb out of my vocabulary.


I love that song......along with Erotic City by Prince, I always remember them from when I was at clubs in university and trying to get laid...in that sense, the lyrics while offensive were appropriate in terms of age and context


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

adcandour said:


> I'm against it.


fuck you.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

cboutilier said:


> I called an older kid down the street a son a of a whore in my childhood, before I knew what whore meant. He learned me I tell ya.


I can top that.. when I was a kindergartener, I once heard an angry man call someone a name.
One day when my mother really pissed me of...I was probably in trouble for something, as I often was, I decided to use it. So, I caller her a cocksucker.
I still recall honestly believing at the time that the word had something to do with chickens.
that, and the beating I got for saying it.
true story.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

laristotle said:


>


that's hilarious...reminds me of this super old one:


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I find it informative to look at the socio-linguistic aspects. 

Adolescents deliberately use language that alienates them from their elders, and bonds them with their peers. At least in western industrialized culture, it's part of how they separate themselves fro adults and begin to forge their own identities. The alienation needn't be in the form of profanity, but can simply be in the form of counter-intuitive uses of words, and regularly-shifting meanings. So, calling something "sick", as a form of admiration, goes against conventional usage of the word. It is understood by the peer group but not by their parents and other authority figures. Use of profanity, while not as artful, serves the same function. If I swear enough, not only do grown-ups frown upon it, but they also go away, and that's two manners in which I - as adolescent - can separate myself from my parents and become my own person, even if that only means being part of a social group that does not include adults.

British socio-linguist Basil Bernstein differentiated between what he saw as two ways of approaching language - what he referred to as restricted and elaborated code ( Basil Bernstein on Restricted and Elaborated Codes  |  Chapter 5: Learning Personalities  |  New Learning  |  New Learning ). Restricted code is highly typical of adolescent conversation. It relies heavily on shared knowledge and context within a social group. The simple question "S'up?" is an example of restricted code. Elaborated code is language that effectively stands on its own, and aims for the sort of precision required when two or more parties do NOT share knowledge and context. Insomuch as swearing is generally used to substitute for a bunch of understood or implied meanings (one does not mean that a physical object_ literally_ has sexual intercourse with its mother), we can consider it to be a variation of restricted code.

I adopt the view that, since the late 70's, we have collectively moved towards what I call "the adolocentric society"; that is, a society revolving around what is important to, and favoured by, adolescents. I propose that it began around the late 70's when economic history indicates the rise of minimum-wage service sector jobs that preferentially hired teens. All that disposable income (even though it was minimum wage) made teens and young adults a force to be reckoned with, and the economy and businesses shifted its attention towards them. Late 1950's and teen idol Ricky Nelson was trying to dress like his dad. Mid-80's and parents are now trying to be like their kids. Maintaining and adopting adolescent culture is now perceived as legitimate because that's who we make a lot of our money from. Google? Mobile devices? Faster internet? Gaming? Fashion? Entertainment media? Fast food? All spurred by the money-making opportunities afforded by teens with money in their pockets. If nobody between the ages of 15 and 23 had a spare nickel tomorrow, the economy would collapse.

The impact of this is that, not only do young adults cling to whatever they did in their teens for a longer period of their lives, because of its perceived legitimacy, but adults try to adopt whatever it is that teens value. And part of that is the adoption of slack language standards.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Diablo said:


> I can top that.. when I was a kindergartener, I once heard an angry man call someone a name.
> One day when my mother really pissed me of...I was probably in trouble for something, as I often was, I decided to use it. So, I caller her a cocksucker.
> I still recall honestly believing at the time that the word had something to do with chickens.
> that, and the beating I got for saying it.
> true story.


As an undergrad in Montreal, my room-mate and I lived at the boundary of the Greek, Portugese, and Chasidic neighbourhoods. Across the courtyard from us was a Greek family with three young boys, the youngest of which appeared to have cerebral palsy. One day I see the two older brothers playing on the balcony, and the younger of the two complains to their mother that the older brother (who must have been about 10 or so) had told his younger brother to "Go F*** a cow". The mother shook her head in disappointment, as if to say "Kids!", but took no further action. Later that same day the older brother complained to the mother that his younger sibling had called him a "fish". With that, the mother laced into the younger one and sent him packing to his room for punishment.

It mystifies me still, 45 years later. I don't know if the difference reflected the mother's attitude or preference for one of the brothers, whether it was a matter of not hearing or not understanding the one vs the other very clearly, or if it was some sort of cultural thing that made calling someone a fish the sort of insult like calling someone a dog in some societies.


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

Diablo said:


> Although I think it's somewhat cheap and lazy, I'm fine with it, in certain genres, punk, metal etc.
> 
> But today when in the car with my wife and 6yr old, my wife starts playing some songs by Pink.


Pink and Avril Lavigne come from the punk scene, however dressed up they may be. It's the Robin Thickes and the Justin Biebers where the profanity would be beyond the pale.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Diablo said:


> im going to take you literally here, cuz you made a bold statement....so you would be fine with someone masturbating in a park near a childrens playground for example? obviously that not the topic here, but restricting someone from this could be construed as a from of censorship, esp if he called it "performance art" lol


Makes a guy think...

Free SPEECH is what I am talking about.

Sticks and stones... etc.

You're right though, as stated the comment was too open. You a lawyer?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Xelebes said:


> Pink and Avril Lavigne come from the punk scene, however dressed up they may be. It's the Robin Thickes and the Justin Biebers where the profanity would be beyond the pale.


I know that's how they like to portray themselves, but I think its a stretch and more about their fashion sense than anything else.
Would punk bands be caught dead playing:









 a great deal of her songs are ghost written by Chantal Kreviazuk, FFS.

Pink is Katy Perry with an ugly haircut and tats.





Calling these 2 Top 40 queens, "punk" reminds me of the old Chappelle joke about Wayne Bradys "blackness" and how he makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm X.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

KapnKrunch said:


> Makes a guy think...
> 
> Free SPEECH is what I am talking about.
> 
> ...


no, I just play one on tv.


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

Diablo said:


> I know that's how they like to portray themselves, but I think its a stretch and more about their fashion sense than anything else.
> Would punk bands be caught dead playing:


Well, Devin has some words for it.







But come on, Blue Rodeo has its roots as a punk band playing at CBGB.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Xelebes said:


> Well, Devin has some words for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ya, theres no way im sitting through an hour of that to figure out the point youre making lol...


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

how do you feel about swearing/curse words in lyrics?

See this thread...


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Such a classic, and the verses sum up this thread................


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Diablo said:


> Pink is Katy Perry with an ugly haircut and tats.


This is a funny statement.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Diablo said:


> Calling these 2 Top 40 queens, "punk" reminds me of the old Chappelle joke about Wayne Bradys "blackness" and how he makes Bryant Gumbel look like Malcolm X.


Plus, whenever I hear of someone coming from the 'punk scene' I expect them to at least be in their fifties.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

As some have mentioned, sometimes the profanity does have a purpose.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

"The difference between age and maturity is discretion. Always be aware of your audience and conduct yourself accordingly". So said my dad the mechanic, who could curse the air blue but outside of the shop I never heard it once.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

When teaching child development, I always used to advise my students that, if they were going to swear in front of an impressionable child, the cuss-word should never be the last work in their utterance, because kids under 3 or so tend to focus in on the last word of an utterance, treating everything that came before it as some sort of qualification or predication of the "true" communicative intent of the utterance contained in the last little bit. So, the most important word in the utterance "I'm going to the *store*" is, in their minds at least, "store". Same for "Did you want a chocolate chip *cookie*?". The last word of a short word utterance is where their attention is directed when attempting to derive meaning. 

So, if you are exasperated with something and can't contain your exasperation, but would prefer your child grow up able to converse with their grandparents, do not declare "This toaster is a piece of S**T!" in frustration. Rather, declare "This toaster is a piece of s**t *equipment*". Your 2 or 3 year-old will credit the adjective with as much significance in that utterance as the words "a" and "of".


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

As I said in the OP, punk and metal get a pass due to their relative obscurity, typically angry nature, and limited exposure for children.

One thing that I also mentioned that no one seems to be concerned with, is lets say as an artist you stand by your presumed right of expression through curse words, but of course radio/tv will edit/censor your songs, either by asking you for a "clean" version for airplay, or simply cutting out the offensive word leaving a strange gap in the song.
At this point was it worth it? when you do a clean version aren't you showing yourself to be a sellout more than if you just did the original clean anyways, or simply wrote something else that made more sense?
*Eminem, “My Name Is"*
“Hi, kids, do you like violence?” became “Hi, kids, do you like Primus?” (obviously not profanity, but censors made him change it anyways, along with lots of other "inappropriate" lines. There is also a line that was changed from "My English teacher wanted to have sex in junior high / The only problem was, my English teacher was a guy" to "My English teacher wanted to flunk me in junior high / Thanks a lot; next semester, I'll be 35."
My Name Is - Wikipedia
The edits are worse than if the lyrics were written clean(er) to begin with.

and in terms of the version with the cut, isn't that a far worse compromise of the integrity of the song, musically than simply choosing a less offensive word?
go to 0:50secs..."...a mother....princess..."...whats a mother princess? it doesn't sound very hot, unless youre into some really weird roleplay for a teenager Maybe he should stay with his less-psycho current Girlfriend 





One funny/clever way around it, was Britney Spears "If You Seek Amy" . lol (obviously written by someone else, like most of her music). although I suspect even my 6 yr old would at some point say the song doesn't make sense, prompting an explanation of what it means. lol



> ...
> But all of the boys and all of the girls
> Are begging to if you seek Amy
> ..


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Diablo said:


> ...
> 
> One funny/clever way around it, was Britney Spears "If You Seek Amy" . lol (obviously written by someone else, like most of her music). although I suspect even my 6 yr old would at some point say the song doesn't make sense, prompting an explanation of what it means. lol


"There is nothing new under the sun" - Solomon

I think it was Chilliwack that released "If You See Kay" many years ago - we all thought our parents didn't get it. They probably thought we didn't get it.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

bw66 said:


> "There is nothing new under the sun" - Solomon
> 
> I think it was Chilliwack that released "If You See Kay" many years ago - we all thought our parents didn't get it. They probably thought we didn't get it.


I never knew that. Thanks...
man, they were a fun band in the summer in the early 80's. remember hearing them on the radio all the time at the cottage. Them, Loverboy, and a couple chick fronted bands...Toronto and The Headpins. Canadian music didn't seem so bad then.
Mods: please move this post to the wistful old man thread.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

bw66 said:


> I think it was Chilliwack that released "If You See Kay" many years ago - we all thought our parents didn't get it. They probably thought we didn't get it.


That was April Wine. I remember hating that song so much because in their attempt to be clever they ended up sounding like a**holes. Plus the song sucked.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I hate when an otherwise great song is undermined by bad language. I did dozens of gigs with a girl who sang what I thought was called "Perfect" by Pink. I loved the song and I thought the lyric was very well turned. Then I heard Pink's uncensored version for the first time. My opinion of her really changed. What a way to destroy an otherwise fine piece of art.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

bw66 said:


> "There is nothing new under the sun" - Solomon
> 
> I think it was Chilliwack that released "If You See Kay" many years ago - we all thought our parents didn't get it. They probably thought we didn't get it.


And then we had "TNUC" by Grand Funk Railroad.

Subtle and clever. Made us young lads giggle with glee - like listening loud to Country Joe and the Fish or CSNY at Woodstock when the parents weren't around.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

LanceT said:


> That was April Wine. I remember hating that song so much because in their attempt to be clever they ended up sounding like a**holes. Plus the song sucked.


Thanks! 

Stupid memory!

And, yeah, the novelty wore off pretty quick.


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