# What's the deal with modes?



## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

I've always been puzzled by the concept of modes. They all look the same to me.

Why call it "E Aeolian" when "G major" has all the same notes in it?

I understand that each of the modes that maps to G major has a different root, but since when do we start playing a phrase on the root?

I'm more likely to start my G-major phrase on the D at the 10th fret of my low E string - does that mean I'm playing in a Mixolydian mode?

Or maybe I'll start it with a half-step bend on the 14th fret of the high E, and then release it. Does that put me in G Ionian, or maybe F# Locrian?

Could it be that I'm actually changing modes with every new phrase I play? 

Awesome!

Er... I think?

Confused...


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

Paul said:


> You can tell by listening what the tonic of a piece of music is. It's that note where the melody wants to sit. It it not necessary that the first or even the last note in a phrase is the tonic, but a skilled listener will hear the tonic in their head, even if the tonic note is not played, but only implied.


Wow. Um...

Ok, so forgive me for being a total newb - let me try to repeat this back to see if I'm understanding.

We're not talking about a "drone" that covers the entire song. Instead, the "tonic" is the note toward which the melody gravitates, and it changes as you play each chord, throughout the progression?



> If a progression in the key of G went: Gmaj7 - Bm7 - Em7 - Am7 - D7 - Gmaj7, you would solo using the scales G Ionian, B Phrygian, E Aeolian, A Dorian, D Mixolydian & G Ionian.


All of which contain exactly the same notes, right?



> But if the chord progression, still in the key of G went: Gmaj - Bm7 - E7 - Am7 - D7 - Gmaj7, the scales you would play would be:
> 
> G Ionian, B Dorian, E Mixolydian, A Dorian, D Mixolydian, G Ionian.


Ok, so if I'm following along (barely), it appears to me that you've moved up two frets to an A major scale for the B Dorian, E Mixolydian bit, and then dropped back into G major again.

Again, forgive my newbishness, but it's never occured to me to change scales chord by chord. I generally try to get the key and just stick with the major scale for that over top of all the changes, dropping out certain notes, or dwelling on certain others, in order to get the "feel" that I want. 

Is this idea of riffing off each chord more prevalent in certain forms of music vs others? Maybe all the 12 bar blues and 80's metal I've been focussing on has ruined my sensibilities.


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2008)

Great thread guys.....while that wasn't totaly over my head, I'll have a bruise just above the eyes. Great explanation Paul......man I gota find an instructor.


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

Paul said:


> 12 bar blues, as most of us play it, simply revolves around a I7 - IV7 - V7 structure. In the key of G, that'd be G7, C7 and D7. Only the D7 chord actually belongs directly in the Key of G, The G7 chord has the note F natural which does not belong in G, and the C7 chord has a Bb, which also does not belong in G. The G7 and C7 chords are borrowed from other modes. You shouldn't use the G major scale to solo over the G7 and C7 chords on a blues in G, it won't sound blue.


I actually meant G major as an expansion of the E minor pentatonic scale, so playing a G major scale at 12th position over top of an E - A - B (I-IV-V?) progression, and dropping out a few notes whenever it felt right, to keep it sort of bluesy.

For your G - C - D progression, I would want to use a Bflat major scale - likely the blues box in 3rd position for a simple start, with extensions down to the 1st fret to grab the low F (and also the A# on the A string) and then up to the 8th fret on the highest strings to reach the high C (and also the G on the B string) and bend up from there.


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## wkriski (Nov 18, 2008)

*Forget Scales/Modes*

Greg,
I wouldn't worry about modes or scales. For a diatonic progression (for the whole song or part of a song), if you think key you will know all the notes you can play. You just need to focus on the chord tones and be aware of the non-chord tones for each chord.

For I-vi-ii-V in key of C we have Cmaj7-Am7-Dm7-G7. you can just improvise using cmajor scale (5 caged shapes are very helpful) but for each chord keep in mind what chord tones are in the chord and use those to outline the changes. It's normal to emphasize them on beats 1 and 3 (the 'strong' beats).

If you alter the Am7 to an A7 you can just adjust the C to C# over that chord, but still think of the key of C major.

Jimmy Bruno also teaches this type of method (no scales/modes focus on making good melodies) so if it's good enough for him it should work for you.


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## dolphinstreet (Sep 11, 2006)

Great explanations, Paul!

My simple response is, it doesn't really matter if you call it Mixolydian or Aeolian, but it matters that you know what modes work over what type of chords. For example, when I play over an E7, I may sometimes think of it as I'm playing B Dorian, (especially if the progression is Bm7 to E7), but I may also think of it as playing E Mixolydian (more likely if I'm playing over an E7 vamp). Hope that makes sense.

Knowing how you can _use_ these "tools" is more important than how you _refer_ to them.


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## Duster (Dec 28, 2007)

Wayward Son said:


> Great thread guys.....while that wasn't totaly over my head, I'll have a bruise just above the eyes. Great explanation Paul......man I gota find an instructor.


Agreed, and I wouldn't say it was over my head either, more straight in the face, like trying to take a drink out of a fire hose. At least once a day I like to be reminded of how little I know.....

--- D


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## Gene Machine (Sep 22, 2007)

*another way to look at it*

This is one way I always looked at it, that pretty much jives with what Paul said, but stated differently.

Using modes helps to get the point across better. Here is a very simple example.

Paranoid by Sabbath is E5 D5 G5 and in the bridge he throws in a C5. There are no minor or major thirds, so the structure of the song is VERY open to interpretation.

During the verses, one could say that the song is either in D Major or G Major. Certainly most would agree that the song gravitates to the E5 chord, which is almost instinctively a minor sound in the song. 

So if I said the song was in E Aeolian Minor I would not just just be saying the song is based on an E minor sound, but the other notes around it are in the key of G. 

If I said it was in E Dorian, it would be based around a E minor sound, but the rest of the notes are in the key of D.

I could say it was in E Locrian (Key of C) if I really wanted to.

Now of course the existence of a C5 in the bridge kinda makes the song in E Aeolian for me. BUT, that's my interpretation. Go crazy on Locrian if you really want. That's where the Jazz part starts coming in, you can start substituting one thing for another.

So, I never looked at 'Modes' as being an extra way to confuse things, just another way of describing what is already happening. In Paul's example where he changed from a Em7 to an E7, that changed the context of the neighboring chords, and while a person "COULD" just play one scale per chord, and change the scale with each chord, a smart way to do it is by looking at groupings and where the song is heading, and trying to come up with a solo that moves along with the chords underneath while being interesting.

One thing I heard Larry Carleton talk about once was looking at extended chords and how they work with adjacent chords. So, depending on your song, if you play a ii7 chord like Dm7 and add an 11th ( which is a G) the v7 chord is a G7. Soyou add it for colour, or more importantly you hit the 11th on a solo as a passing note to the following chord where it is a rooth ot the G7. The idea is to use these kind of ideas to make your solos more interesting. Of course LC does this all in his head while he's soloing. WILD!

Anyway, that's how I look at it, if it's worth anything.


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## Gene Machine (Sep 22, 2007)

*yeah*



Paul said:


> You can look to the melody for guidance in this case. I don't know the song well enough to comment. E5 is not a chord, it is an interval, and in the absence of a melody, you do have a variety of options available. Which options you choose and how you relate them to each other will make the difference between interesting music, and high-school blues.


That is my point, the "power chord" often referred to with the 5 designation after it (in guitar mags anyway) is so blank that you really can play with it.


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## mushroom-eater (Dec 9, 2008)

I think every guitarist must geek on the modes it's very crucial. It's still a topic to venture. It's not easy yet but I'll try it.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2009)

Hello y'all, first time posting here

if I may I'd like to recommend Frank Gambale's "Modes: No More Mystery"
it unplugged my drains

if you think hard enough about it there's an issue about why it's harder to grasp modes on the geetar
but that's for some other time 

ok, cape back on - wooosh ...


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