# Injustice that just angers you to the core.



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

You don't have to be an active cyclist for this story to just anger the fuck out of you. I really have no words to really describe how this complete lack of justice angers me. I've been hit before, and if I hadn't been able to get up right then and there, I'm sure the guy who hit me would've taken off.









Hit-and-run driver dodges jail after killing Markham cyclist - Canadian Cycling Magazine


12-month house arrest sentence given for leaving Father of three to die on side of the road




cyclingmagazine.ca


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

@Verne ....I agree, but I don't have it in me to hit the like button. <sigh>


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Disgusting.

_Justice Prutschi apparently anticipated some blowback. His astoundingly light sentence is, itself, related to the current pandemic. Forrestall suffers from Asthma, and the judge was concerned for her health given the difficulty of social distancing and the possible spread of COID-19 in jails. “This sentence will likely attract criticism from all quarters. It will undoubtedly be viewed as too lenient for those who are … shattered, broken and angry,” Prutschi stated during sentencing. _

In this circumstance, the judge should defer additional sentencing after covid is deemed to be over?

_ As justification for his leniency, the judge listed her early guilty plea, employment in early childhood education and unnamed philanthropic endeavors, as well as *her eventual remorse*. _

No brainer. Hit her hard.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Ya, it’s pretty timely, what with Marco Muzzo getting out last month as well.

so, if you ever want to whack someone, kill them with your car, maybe sprinkle some vodka on yourself for effect and you’ll get off mostly Scott-free.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

laristotle said:


> In this circumstance, the judge should defer additional sentencing after covid is deemed to be over?


3 year driving ban, 1 year house arrest, 2 years of probation and had her teaching license revoked. She's 26 now. When she's done with her sentence she'll be 29 years old, and is going to have to start a new career from scratch. I'm willing to go out on a limb and suggest that in this case avoiding jail is far from avoiding punishment.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Okay Player said:


> in this case avoiding jail is far from avoiding punishment


I'm not sure that the dead victim's family would concur.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

laristotle said:


> I'm not sure that the dead victim's family would concur.


Unfortunately I've had occasion to be around families of people who've lost loved ones to the actions of others. What I've been told generally runs a long the lines of "Nothing you do to them is going to bring my family member back." However, I'm sure for some no punishment is harsh enough.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

"_despite already having multiple speeding tickets on her record between 2017 and 2019_".


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

I think the judge thinks he might be able to get in her pants at a later date. No other reason for the ruling.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Okay Player said:


> 3 year driving ban, 1 year house arrest, 2 years of probation and had her teaching license revoked. She's 26 now. When she's done with her sentence she'll be 29 years old, and is going to have to start a new career from scratch. I'm willing to go out on a limb and suggest that in this case avoiding jail is far from avoiding punishment.


BFD

her “career“was as a babysitter.
her next career was likely to be stay at home mom, which is still viable for her.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Distortion said:


> I think the judge thinks he might be able to get in her pants at a later date. No other reason for the ruling.












you might be correct.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Checked her mirror, no one else around and took off - no surprise there.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Whenever her "sentence" is served, I hope the police add claiming false police report to her record and charge her for that, as well as the insurance company going after her for her fraudulent claim as well. I couldn't care less about her loss of job and license being revoked. Her only concern was for herself. How can anybody who consciously concocts a huge lie to cover what is essentially murder be allowed to teach, work with, or even guide any child?? She took a life. Whether she meant to or not, she killed a man. She then lied to save herself. Her only remorse is the truth became known. This is not the first, and won't be the last, light sentence handed to somebody who has killed a cyclist. I couldn't give a flying fuck about her future. I hope this haunts her and follows her everywhere she goes for the rest of her life. If she had stayed, called 911, and done what a HUMAN being should do, this could have been different. It's not the cyclist dying that makes this injustice, it's how SHE was treated after the fact. I couldn't care less about her asthma. Ohhhhhhhhh, the poor murderous woman has asthma. _sniffle_ We better protect her.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Essentially murder? That’s ridiculous. Clearly you have strong feelings about this but be a little realistic.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Okay, vehicular manslaughter. I'd call it accidental death, but she did what she could to hide the fact that he died due to her actions.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Okay Player said:


> 3 year driving ban, 1 year house arrest, 2 years of probation and had her teaching license revoked. She's 26 now. When she's done with her sentence she'll be 29 years old, and is going to have to start a new career from scratch. I'm willing to go out on a limb and suggest that in this case avoiding jail is far from avoiding punishment.


Perhaps an adequate sentence if the victim did not die.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

There are plenty of practical and logistical reasons to *not* stick someone in jail these days. But that does not mean that a sentence cannot be deferred to be served at such a time as prisons are covid-free. 

Almost 50 years back, I was hit, as a cyclist, by a taxi attempting to get the jump on a light-change by driving on the sidewalk to bypass vehicles ahead of him. As I lay on the ground, the driver checked to make sure I wasn't dead and then drove off. I came out okay, though my room-mate's bike was totalled. Police took me to the hospital to get checked out, but that was pretty much where "help" or inquiry ended.


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## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

Totally appalling!! Should have had jail time...


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Seems very lenient! Especially for driving away and not calling for an ambulance. But this is Canada... I better stop there.

I wonder, if it was a pedestrian would it be different? Is a cyclist treated differently? I mean, legally, because they are a road user. 

How about no jail, but each year on the anniversary of his death she has to ride a bike down the same road wearing a shirt that says " I killed a cyclist and drove away ..."


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Forrestall’s potential health issues appear to be the main reasons for her not serving jail time. Prutschi also cited various mental health issues, including suicidal ideations, anxiety, depression and “borderline personality disorder.” 

Will she receive any support for her mental health issues? and that could be a challenge with a pathological liar.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

Minimum five years for manslaughter. And another reason for separate paths for walking/biking etc. away from roads and traffic.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

that is fucked up

I avoid biking in traffic, if at all possible. 

At least there are more bike lanes, with physical barriers, than a few years ago


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

tomee2 said:


> Seems very lenient! Especially for driving away and not calling for an ambulance. But this is Canada... I better stop there.
> 
> I wonder, if it was a pedestrian would it be different? Is a cyclist treated differently? I mean, legally, because they are a road user.
> 
> How about no jail, but each year on the anniversary of his death she has to ride a bike down the same road wearing a shirt that says " I killed a cyclist and drove away ..."


Reminds me of when I was about 10, my younger brother got caught leaving Macs with gum in his pocket unpaid for. Dad sat us down and, gritting his teeth very hard, told us if we were caught stealing again, he'd march us around the block wearing signs saying "I AM A THIEF", kicking our asses the entire way. We took him seriously, and no further incidents occurred.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I personally think this is female privilege...how many men could skip out on a jail sentence for having asthma?
reminds me of when Paris Hilton left prison because it was too upsetting for her How Paris Hilton Paved Way for Trump, Kardashian
or this charmer








Woman Who Threw Chair from Balcony onto Toronto Highway Receives No Jail Time


Marcella Zoia received a fine and was ordered to serve community service after the incident last year




people.com





men don’t get a say in whether or not they go to prison by batting their eyelashes or shedding a few tears.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Always12AM said:


> View attachment 353930
> 
> 
> you might be correct.


Privilege, vanity, irresponsibility, selfishness and entitlement never looked so good.

at least she was in the passenger seat when she took THAT selfie.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Diablo said:


> Privilege, vanity, irresponsibility, selfishness and entitlement never looked so good.
> 
> at least she was in the passenger seat when she took THAT selfie.


I’ve never actually dated a white woman.
I can’t afford the maintenance.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Always12AM said:


> I’ve never actually dated a white woman.
> I can’t afford the maintenance.


I’ve dated lots. nome were like her.
its not a race thing, I think she’s just a sociopath.

she turned what may have been a simple accident, possibly with the cyclist even being at fault, into a crime spree, with more concern for her car than for the accident victim.
i wouldn’t have thought someone would claim that thinking they had been involved in the death of someone meant that it was ok to go on with their night because it wasn’t worth stopping for a minute to see how they were or report it.

hilarious that the judge made it seem like he was being too harsh. 
she basically had no job to lose, will now be able to collect welfare, while being under lockdown at home like the rest of us. At some point, she‘ll marry a simp who will take care of her anyway.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

tomee2 said:


> I wonder, if it was a pedestrian would it be different? Is a cyclist treated differently? I mean, legally, because they are a road user.


in Ontario , a cyclist IS considered a pedestrian in the eyes of the law.


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## fretzel (Aug 8, 2014)

Diablo said:


> I personally think this is female privilege...how many men could skip out on a jail sentence for having asthma?
> reminds me of when Paris Hilton left prison because it was too upsetting for her How Paris Hilton Paved Way for Trump, Kardashian
> or this charmer
> 
> ...











Provincial jails released thousands of inmates amid calls to slow the spread of COVID-19


As calls grew to release some inmates at federal and provincial institutions to slow the spread of COVID-19 inside Canadian jails, provincial institutions appear to have heeded the call, while federal inmate populations remained fairly flat.



www.ctvnews.ca


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

oldjoat said:


> in Ontario , a cyclist IS considered a pedestrian in the eyes of the law.


Ok that's what was wondering. Law is strange at times. 

If he was on a motorcycle and she drove off, would it have been automatic harsher sentencing?


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## fretzel (Aug 8, 2014)

oldjoat said:


> in Ontario , a cyclist IS considered a pedestrian in the eyes of the law.


.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Diablo said:


> at least she was in the passenger seat when she took THAT selfie


Maybe not? I've seen a lot of reversed pics on the net.
I don't know how that happens and most times, neither do the posters.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Either way, there is no seat belt being worn. Maybe parked. The sign doesn't look blurred so there is likely no motion going on. I'd like to think so anyway. With pavement to her right, she is either on a highway as passenger, in a parking lot, or driving while taking a selfie without wearing a seat belt.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Verne said:


> Whenever her "sentence" is served, I hope the police add claiming false police report to her record and charge her for that, as well as the insurance company going after her for her fraudulent claim as well. I couldn't care less about her loss of job and license being revoked. Her only concern was for herself. How can anybody who consciously concocts a huge lie to cover what is essentially murder be allowed to teach, work with, or even guide any child?? She took a life. Whether she meant to or not, she killed a man. She then lied to save herself. Her only remorse is the truth became known. This is not the first, and won't be the last, light sentence handed to somebody who has killed a cyclist. I couldn't give a flying fuck about her future. I hope this haunts her and follows her everywhere she goes for the rest of her life. If she had stayed, called 911, and done what a HUMAN being should do, this could have been different. It's not the cyclist dying that makes this injustice, it's how SHE was treated after the fact. I couldn't care less about her asthma. Ohhhhhhhhh, the poor murderous woman has asthma. _sniffle_ We better protect her.



Murderous? That implies it was intentional. It could well have been an accident.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Verne said:


> Okay, vehicular manslaughter. I'd call it accidental death, but she did what she could to hide the fact that he died due to her actions.



Yes, I changed my wording after JBF mentioned it.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

Paul Running said:


> “borderline personality disorder.”


That`s no joke...some folks under that designation are not to be trusted as they can be a danger to themselves and others. But it`s Canada eh...anything goes, especially if you`re a pretty female.

Really...I don`t see any profit in incarceration for her. There are many more dangerous people at large to worry about. She`s just the flavor of the day for the press and the hate mob.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

SWLABR said:


> Perhaps an adequate sentence if the victim did not die.


There's no adequate sentence of taking someone's life.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

*Police Stops*


Cyclist is to identify themselves and provide their address
Cyclist does not need to show their drivers licence.

*Reverse Onus Law (Civil)*


*Ontario has a reverse onus law that requires the driver of a motor vehicle that strikes a cyclist to prove that the damage or injury did not arise through their negligence or improper conduct (as opposed to the cyclist having the onus of proving the driver was negligent)*

*Civil Remedies*


Cyclists are permitted to sue drivers/owners of vehicles who are negligent and cause injuries to the cyclist.
Families of cyclists killed by negligent driver/owners are entitled to sue for wrongful death.
No fault benefits are available to injured and killed cyclists in Ontario regardless of fault provided a motor vehicle is involved. 
Joint and several liability applies to the negligent actions of defendants
Owners of cars are jointly liable with drivers
Cyclists may be held contributorily negligent for their conduct but there is no restriction in the cyclist pursuing a claim if so found to be partly at fault.
Municipalities can be held liable for improper design and failure to repair. They are responsible for their percentage of fault


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

Paul Running said:


> Forrestall’s potential health issues appear to be the main reasons for her not serving jail time. Prutschi also cited various mental health issues, including suicidal ideations, anxiety, depression and “borderline personality disorder.”
> 
> Will she receive any support for her mental health issues? and that could be a challenge with a pathological liar.


with those three things, hire dust she get her license? Probably doesn’t come into play. Evidence of society’s moral decay. Imo


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> in Ontario , a cyclist IS considered a pedestrian in the eyes of the law.


No they are not.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

oldjoat said:


> in Ontario , a cyclist IS considered a pedestrian in the eyes of the law.


wrong. A bicycle is a vehicle under the highway traffic act.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

.
Ontario HTA;


bicycle is a vehicle that belongs on the road.
cyclists have the same rights as drivers.

Although, there is an exception in Toronto which allows for the reality that people might experience law differently. Accordingly, a cyclist can identify as a pedestrian if they wish to.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

keto said:


> Reminds me of when I was about 10, my younger brother got caught leaving Macs with gum in his pocket unpaid for. Dad sat us down and, gritting his teeth very hard, told us if we were caught stealing again, he'd march us around the block wearing signs saying "I AM A THIEF", kicking our asses the entire way. We took him seriously, and no further incidents occurred.


when i was 5 or 6 i stole a box of milk duds from the neighborhood store. by the time i got home, my mom already knew. she beat the daylights outta me, and sent me back up to the store to work for free the next 2 days. i also did extra chores around the house that week to cover the money that payed for my theft. i also got it again from my dad when he got home that night. pretty much killed my life of crime right there.



Diablo said:


> I personally think this is female privilege...how many men could skip out on a jail sentence for having asthma?
> reminds me of when Paris Hilton left prison because it was too upsetting for her How Paris Hilton Paved Way for Trump, Kardashian
> or this charmer
> 
> ...


that is what this is, for the most part. women always serve lighter sentences than men for the same crimes. stats prove it, and they have for decades.



Jim Wellington said:


> That`s no joke...some folks under that designation are not to be trusted as they can be a danger to themselves and others. But it`s Canada eh...anything goes, especially if you`re a pretty female.
> 
> Really...I don`t see any profit in incarceration for her. There are many more dangerous people at large to worry about. She`s just the flavor of the day for the press and the hate mob.


BPD can be pretty serious. regardless of what you might think of it, it ruins people's lives, and it's not something you do to yourself. it's the result of what has been done TO you. it directly affects one's ability to make rational decisions. 
that said, i still dont excuse her, because there is no excuse for what she did.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

I hope the family can sue for damages, but this not being the US it probably wouldn't be for millions.
Not that money brings back a dead father, but paying his kids monthly for the rest of her life might be a good reminder of what she did.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

cheezyridr said:


> BPD can be pretty serious. regardless of what you might think of it, it ruins people's lives, and it's not something you do to yourself. it's the result of what has been done TO you. it directly affects one's ability to make rational decisions.
> that said, i still dont excuse her, because there is no excuse for what she did.


I know this as I`ve had 2 friends who deal with it...super unstable and unpredictable when not having a good day.

If she truly has BPD and it caused this incident through her inability to create empathy/compassion for the victim then she`s needs something besides jail.

There has to be something to gain through incarceration...or it becomes retribution and revenge...no justice there. Unless you feel she`s habitually violent, or becoming so, then she could be viewed as a threat to herself and us. 

Locking up damaged people should only be a last resort. Nothing gets better...it`s a bad option. It`s college for criminals and a club for sociopaths...how the fuck do you come out of one of those places "better" than before?


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

tomee2 said:


> I hope the family can sue for damages, but this not being the US it probably wouldn't be for millions.
> Not that money brings back a dead father, but paying his kids monthly for the rest of her life might be a good reminder of what she did.



It would likely be her insurance company that would be forced to pay.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Jim Wellington said:


> Locking up damaged people should only be a last resort.


something like that would have to be determined by someone smarter than i am, that's obvious.  
different parts of me can see 2 sides of that coin. i'm not of the mind that bpd excuses what she did. i do think that as a part of her sentencing, she should have to undergo continuous treatment. i don't think the "state" should have to pick up the tab for it, either. 




Jim Wellington said:


> ...how the fuck do you come out of one of those places "better" than before?


this part, i think i am qualified to give a partial answer. 
i think depending on the individual, (and the circumstances) you _can_ come out of there better, even though it's probably rare.
when i was a teen, i was homeless, and of course, i was all fucked up. i did some time in a max security facility for underage offenders. i went in for grand larceny and criminal trespassing. i managed to plea bargain down to misdemeanor theft. i did restitution, 3 yrs probation and 180 hrs of community service. the only reason i got caught in the first place is because one of my friends told on me. he did that because he saw the path i was on, and thought it was the only way he could help me. to this day, i am grateful to him for doing it. while i was incarcerated, i understood what losing my freedom meant, on a fundamental level. i saw how they could even regulate my bodily functions, let alone restrict my behavior and my movements. i swore i would never again do something that would put me in such a position ever again. that was 38 or 39 yrs ago, this month. i haven't forgotten that lesson for even a moment. i'll keep it with me until my dying day. surely there must be others capable of making the same conclusion.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

tomee2 said:


> I hope the family can sue for damages, but this not being the US it probably wouldn't be for millions.
> Not that money brings back a dead father, but paying his kids monthly for the rest of her life might be a good reminder of what she did.


Awards in Canada are much lower than awards in the United States.

Cap on general damages in Canada is about $360K these days after indexing.

Whatever claim the family might have is likely going to be for general damages: loss of care, guidance and companionship, wrongful death etc. Given the circumstances they could also claim punitive and exemplary damages. But the insurer ain't gonna be paying them for the rest of their days as these types of awards usually aren't that high.

The insurance law in Ontario is extremely hard on Plaintiffs in MVA cases.

General damages in Ontario MVA cases are subject to a $40K deductible which is indexed and goes up every year; that means the insurance company doesn't have to pay the first $40K on any award for general damages below 130K; that means that a drunk can run into you, mess you up and their insurance company won't have to pay the first $40 for general damages/pain and suffering. You won't read about that in the media and, at trial, a jury can not be told that the first 40 of any award they make below $130K does not have to be paid. If they were told they'd just bump their number by 40K and that ain't good for the insurance company.

In order to even bring a claim in court the other driver has to be at fault. That's pretty easy if you get reared while stopped at a red but lots accidents can be disputed on liability; some are 75/25 and others might be 50/50. I don't know what the liability was on the case at hand or if they were able to make a determination on that; it could be that the courts convicted her for leaving the scene and other related charges. The CCC/HTA outcome usually has little bearing on the civil case; the Insurance Act has its own fault determination rules. But for the sake of discussion assume it can be proven that the driver was at fault; maybe there was a witness.

The insurance company for the driver is in a strong position to deny coverage; based on fraudulent misrep and spoilation of evidence - ie as a result of the driver's conduct the insurer is not in a postion to conduct an adequate investigation to mount a defense. So then the driver has no insurance and she would have to pay the damages herself but she may not have any assets so she takes bankruptcy and that's that.

In the alternative, and in the event that the cyclist had an auto insurance policy, his estate could claim against his own insurer for the uninsured/unidentified motorist coverage which provides up to $250K if you get hit by someone who has no insurance or takes off and remains unidentified.

If you have no auto policy and get injured by an uninsured/unidentified driver you can claim against the Government of Ontario Fund for up to $250K but you have to obtain judgment against any possible Defendants before chasing the Ontario fund - that could be expensive because you'd have to litigate against the driver and her insurance company. The insurer will not go down without an expensive fight and the driver may not have any money to pay an award for damages. Sometimes the Ontario fund will pay the damage award and then chase the at fault driver later. 

Either way they are in for a long haul and with covid it could be 5 years before a claim made its way to trial.

You hear a lot about insurance fraud but you never hear about the $40K deductible which is the real fraud in the auto insurance industry.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

tomee2 said:


> Ok that's what was wondering. Law is strange at times.
> 
> If he was on a motorcycle and she drove off, would it have been automatic harsher sentencing?


I doubt it....most places people on bicycles get treated better than people on motorcycles.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Jim Wellington said:


> That`s no joke...some folks under that designation are not to be trusted as they can be a danger to themselves and others. But it`s Canada eh...anything goes, especially if you`re a pretty female.
> 
> Really...I don`t see any profit in incarceration for her. There are many more dangerous people at large to worry about. She`s just the flavor of the day for the press and the hate mob.


Slap her inside and she'll be the flavour of the day all right.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> in Ontario , a cyclist IS considered a pedestrian in the eyes of the law.


Depends if they are on the bike or off the bike. The bike is considered as a vehicle. If you're on it you are not a pedestrian.


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## nman (Sep 14, 2019)

Honestly relieved that folks on this forum are supportive of the cyclist. A similar post a few years back on another forum brought stupid comments such as "cyclists deserve to be hurt".


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