# So I used to think that the line 6 didn't suck....



## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

I'm new at guitar and when looking for amps everyone would always say stay away form line 6 amps. I didn't believe them. I thought it was something that only experts would notice the difference in. Well I was all so wrong; watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYslxyj4Qwk

I know there only 15w hundred dollar amps so how much can you expect. But still, I couldn't believe my ears, line 6 is horrid.


----------



## Big White Tele (Feb 10, 2007)

You didnt like that??


----------



## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

I dont know, I thought they both sounded like ass. Just different flavours ... of ... ass? 

:rockon:


----------



## Pauld (Oct 11, 2008)

i always thought Line6 amspo were more for metal, distortion sounds more like metal. all the metal kids in my school play them.


----------



## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

bagpipe said:


> I dont know, I thought they both sounded like ass. Just different flavours ... of ... ass?
> 
> :rockon:


mouahahahhahahah! Nice one!


----------



## Benee Wafers (Jul 1, 2006)

I can;t speak for Line 6 amps 'cause I don't own one however in terms of their XT's and Variaxs' and quite a few other products they market they are a very good product.
And I guess I'll open myself up to a couple of kicks in the ass and offer my latest song and recording which all guitars are from a Line 6 Variax and all amps from the PODXT recorded direct to a Tascam 8 track.
I am very happy with the sounds created.

Here: http://www.soundclick.com/ShakerHood
Benee Wafers


----------



## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

lots of theyre stuff sucks- the spider amps for sure
i use a pod2 a lot, and i like it- but i only got it because this guy uses flextone 3's exclusively. hearing him convinced me to try a pod- before that i was covering amps with blankets etc to get a good tone in my apartment- a pain in the ass.
i dont have a problem with any of his tones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYn8O25SA7M


----------



## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

Paul said:


> I don't think I've ever owned an amp that I liked when turned all the way up.*...*I tell a lie....my Leslie 147 dimed is arguably one of the most beautiful sounds you will ever hear. The best example I can think of is in the Cream Reunion DVD, in the song "Badge". Just before as they get to the bridge section, (_Yes, I told you that the light goes up and down_), Clapton pauses just a bit longer than expected to build up some suspense, and then he kicks in with the guitar line, through a Leslie. *THAT'S a cranked amp sound I can get behind*.


Yes, unless you're playing in a stadium or a soundproofed box, most amps that will sound good dimed is going to be way too loud (maybe a champ on 10 would be an exception like Marc Ribot and Tom Waits, but that's a definite sound). Eric Johnson runs 100W Marshall plexi at 10 and it sounds awesome, but it would deafen you in the same room. I think Paul Kossoff ran 200 W Marshalls at 10 as did Jimi. Eric Clapton as you said in Cream. 

You're right too about the quality of low end gear. I had an 8 watt no name SS practice amp that was just good enough to hear what you were doing but that had no tone at all, which ws just as well as my Hondo LP copy sounded dreadful. OK, now I feel like a Monty Python skit... 

Never played through a Leslie...


----------



## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

Realisticly, what do you want for a hundred bucks? Great tone? Dream on.

One sounded mid heavy and the other seemed mid scooped. The tester didn't even attempt to EQ both amps alike or even address the issue of tone control whatsoever. The tester also didn't realize he'd failed to defeat chorus from the Line-6 for the "Twin" comparison. Seems to me the price point was the only fair part of the comparison. The rest was just a waste of time because he didn't properly cover any bases at all except price.

They both sounded like cheap $100 amps to me.


----------



## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

The guy doing the voiceover was funny. I kept expecting him to say "Badda Bing Badda Boom, ah fuggeddaboudit" and shove a pen in somebody's neck. 
Yoda agree with I do - those amps both sounded horrible to me too.


----------



## no_mojo (Oct 14, 2008)

bagpipe said:


> I dont know, I thought they both sounded like ass. Just different flavours ... of ... ass?
> 
> :rockon:


:smilie_flagge17:


----------



## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

i had a Line 6 spider 75w for a few years when in my appartment, did'nt think it was a tone monster...specialy when you have a 100w 2x12 JCM 800 beside it, but it did'nt suck, i found it very versatile for a 300$ amp that requires "zero" effect pluged into it. for a practice amp, i found it perfect for home stuff.


----------



## Guest (Oct 14, 2008)

I still have a line-6 that I have owned since 1998. It's not an amazingly brilliant masterpeice of tone but it doesn't suck either. Mine is the AX2-212 with the FloorBoard. I have to admit that virtually ALL of the presets suck because everything is cranked up too high, especially things like chorus, flange, delay and reverb. I also have to admit that I have never A/B'd it with another modelling amp. I have A/B'd it against several great old tube amps including my 72 SFVR, a 66 Champ and a beat up Marshall Plexi of undeterminate year of origin. The manual explains how to arrive at the un-processed model of those amps and I A/B'd them that way. I was unable to find an emulation for the SFVR and the closest thing I could find was a BFTR so I used that knowing the SFVR migh be lacking in the throatiness department and prolly excell in the area of sensitivity and airiness. In each case I found the line-6 to be tonally accurate. Actually I thought it was quite impressive how close the tones were. Where it came up short was its failure in duplicating the dynamic responses of the real thing. For playing with other musicians in a normal Rock'n Roll band there would never be an opportunity for any tone purists in the audience to hear the difference above the noise of the rest of the band. Maybe in a Blues trio where there's no other guitarist to obscure the fine nuances of your tone.

I likely will never sell mine. It's just too usefull for jam sessions where you're playing with new people and therefore you never know what kind of sounds you might want to use.


----------



## mcgriff420 (Sep 30, 2008)

+1 I have an L6 spider 112 I use for noodling or writing new material. Its great for when you want to dial up different sounds on the fly without digging through the closet for that old chorus/flange/trem etc. pedal and then pulling out the old dusty BF deluxe/Vox/Marshall you've been hoarding until they hit $4000 on ebay... know what I mean?

That said, I have tried using the L6 live -well, once.. Same story for rehearsal, it just doesn't cut it for me in a situation where I'm playing with others and need some dynamics.

So no, L6 doesn't inherently 'suck' it's just another tool in the arsenal. :rockon:


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

spiders are practise amps.

people seem to prefer the flextone II to the flextone III - i've spent time on a II, and it definitely had some good cleans and dirty tones to it!

line 6 Vetta II: good luck knowing it's one when you hear it recorded .

also, bear in mind you have to know how to EQ an amp. i could hand someone a $3K boutique amp and a custom shop gibson les paul - if they dont know how to EQ an amp, they will probably still make it sound like ass.

PS: dont judge a whole amp company off of 1 youtube video (which almost always has crappy sound quality) of a 15W practise amp


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Paul said:


> The small ones are typically a practice amp, the bigger ones are quite suitable for live work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



spider series is practise amps. you can make a 200W 212 practise amp, and it will still be a practise amp.

there's using onboard EQ to EQ an amp, there's taking into account the guitar/pickups/speaker/pick/speaker config and using an outboard EQ (parametric is great for sculpting "your" tone, i'm told - havent tried it yet).

as for "the perfect tone" comment - the smart guitarists *do* take into account the perfect tone in terms of using their rig in a band context


----------



## Guest (Oct 15, 2008)

Paul said:


> ...Too many guitarists spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars to find the "perfect" tone. The problem with that process is that it does not take into account how that "perfect" tone works in the context of the rest of the arrangement and the musicians executing that arrangement.


You said a mouthfull there, Paul. What sounds good in the practice room often doesn't work live with the rest of the band and vise-versa. Ever REALLY listen to Jimmy Page's tone? It sucks but it works well in the mix.


----------



## Guest (Oct 15, 2008)

I never paid much attention to the tone of Kenny's snare before but I just had a listen. Seems like in the early days his tone was warm and low and woody and basically clean, then later it becomes thin and high and steely with lots of reverb. Thanks for pointing that out. I think I like the trebly reverb sound better.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Budda said:


> spiders are practise amps.
> 
> people seem to prefer the flextone II to the flextone III - i've spent time on a II, and it definitely had some good cleans and dirty tones to it!


That would be the first time I have heard that. In my experience the III was a superior amp in every way. From the interface, the much improved models.

I gigged with a Flextone III for a year in a band, and the second guitar player used a Flextone II. I was very impressed with what both amps could do. Soundguys were constantly surprised too. Not every feature/effect/model was great but there were some outstanding tones in the amp. And it was nice to have the consistency of those tones preset.

I only got rid of the amp for 2 reasons. 1, at the time I just didn't need all the models/effects. 2, in a live situation the amps are pretty much useless without a floorboard if you really want to use all the features. And at the time the floorboards cost more than the amps did new.

Now that I mainly record at home and gig with friends, I with I had the amp back. I really enjoy using the Line 6 Gearbox software that came with my Toneport though. And I think the sounds I get with my personal 'for fun' recordings are quite good. Considering all I used with Garageband, Gearbox, the Toneport, and an SM57.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

its all about knowing how to use what you've got, IMO.

and i dont use my GT-8 much, but the JSX will do more or less exactly what i tell it to.

and i know a guy who loves his spider II for gigging, but he also caved and bought a carvin X100B haha.

my marshall MG250DFX was an oversized practise amp. i gigged with it, and it got the job done - but its still a practise amp. if it has the power, or you stick a mic in front of it, you can gig it - regardless which amp "it" is.


----------



## Guest (Oct 16, 2008)

Budda said:


> ... you can gig it - regardless which amp "it" is.



Well, I don't know about that. I went to what was supposed to be a blues jam in Feb. of /07 and took my Fender BJ with me thinking I could mic up if the situation called for it. It turned into a rock show. There were guys there with Marshall half stacks. Even with the little BJ quite close to me and pointing straight at my head I could still hear myself better through the house mains than through my amp. It just didn't have the power to be heard amoungst a group of 4X12's. I pretty much had to pack up my gear and go.


----------



## Guest (Oct 16, 2008)

Yoda said:


> and took my Fender BJ


Is that the model that solicits you on the corner in the red light district? "Hey baby, want me to crank your gain?"



> I pretty much had to pack up my gear and go.


So no happy ending using the Fender BJ then? That sucks. I'd ask for my money back.



(Oh my god I'm on fire tonight! How do I come up with this stuff? It's pure gold.)


----------



## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

OK first WOW did this bring up quite the conversation... haven't checked the board for like a week lol... it really is an active commuinity



Pauld said:


> i always thought Line6 amspo were more for metal, distortion sounds more like metal. all the metal kids in my school play them.


I play lots of metal (among other things like trying to play the start of money for nothing) and I would never use that amp for metal. It gives that sound but it's very hollow and their's nothing to it.


----------



## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

Budda said:


> spiders are practise amps.
> PS: dont judge a whole amp company off of 1 youtube video (which almost always has crappy sound quality) of a 15W practise amp


Ok fair enough... my point was to judge with practice amp since it's all I can afford. I want to get the 30 watt vypyr. For what I can afford the peavey sounds alot better and more versatile.


----------



## Guest (Oct 16, 2008)

LOL @ iaresee


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

want metal?

buy a used peavey bandit


----------



## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

meh im just gonna get a digitech metal master pedal.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

metal pedals, on average, sound like crap. they do *not* give you anything close to a good metal tone.

the amp would slay the pedal.


----------



## Guest (Oct 17, 2008)

You want a tube amp with EL34's but because you have a small budget you'd be better off going with EL84's. You want to dime the amp. Then you want a fairly good dose of compression from a quality compressor, a ton of chorus, not very deep but lots of overlapping layers; 2 or maybe 3 chorus pedals in series all set with the depth and rate low and the effect level high, and a little bit of delay. Either scoop or push the mids depending on the kind of metal tone you're after. It helps if you've got really hot humbuckers.

Neither a Line-6 nor a Peavey nor a Metal pedal are going to give you the sound you crave and a couple hundred bucks ain't gonna do it either. Sorry, but the blues are the inexpensive way to go. Strat, small tube amp and tube screamer. For metal you gotta shell out the big coin. Les Paul, screaming hot humbuckers, huge EL34 amp and some quality, high end chorus and compression FX. Cheap pedals and cheap amps won't cut it.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

why EL34's? some mesa users prefer 6L6's, 5150's are usually 6L6-loaded, and I prefer KT77's to both.

actually, metal on the budget is quite easy. Peavey is a metal staple - the 5150 has been on countless albums. a line 6 will give you metal if you set it up right: see "Meshuggah".

and you dont need a huge amp to get a metal tone


----------



## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

I'm not getting a tube amp... to much upkeep and to much money. I want to get the vypyr because it has alot of different sounds from the peavey 6505 to classic fender sounds. The digitech metal master sounds great to me. From videos and trying it out.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

please inform me of how a tube amp is too much upkeep .

if you're after the chainsaw, all-treble-fizz thing that a few devoted players call "good metal tone" then yes, you'll like the metal pedals.

www.myspace.com/iambulb
www.myspace.com/straightreadstheline
www.myspace.com/blackdahliamurder

i just happen to think otherwise


----------



## Guest (Oct 17, 2008)

Budda said:


> why EL34's? some mesa users prefer 6L6's, 5150's are usually 6L6-loaded, and I prefer KT77's to both.


Everyone has preferences but when I think of Mesa I think of Creed and Nickelback. When I think metal I hear a Marshall stack in my head. For my money the alltime best metal tone is Zakk's tone in the 90's. I just think EL34's sound better than 6L6's when pushed to breakup.

2¢


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

that's cool, its your opinion.

but if you say mesa to me, i will jump to this is a standoff, belvedere, protest the hero, as i lay dying, straight reads the line, etc.

there is no amp that will ever make me jump to creed or nickelback haha.

and its hard to get a marshall to do any really heavy metal IMO. ZW isnt that heavy


----------



## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

I have to agree with budda on that. Mesa is metal, Lamb of God uses it and there ****ing brilliant. I just can't afford that calliber of amp. If you can find an affordable version then please point me in that direction


----------



## Guest (Oct 18, 2008)

I didn't say I thought it was the heaviest, I said I thought it was the best. Some metal tones out there just have too much gain. Too much mud. Yes, there is a such thing as too much gain. There, I said it. Zakk in those years had a thick fat sound with lots of harmonic overtones and still had plenty of note definition. Plus it just sounds heavy to me. Heavier than Metallica IMO. And I think I percieve it heavier _because_ of the fact he sounds heavy using less gain than some others might. It speaks to me on the inside that the _man_ is heavy and he doesn't need 27 distortion stages to sound heavy.

2¢

I don't know if that makes any sense logically but it feels right somehow.

.


----------



## Guest (Oct 18, 2008)

OK that was pretty off topic.


----------



## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

I see where your coming from. I like the stuff zack does. (the guitar in ozzy's no more tears is amazing). But I think musically where coming form different ends on the kind of sound im thinking of; here's the kind of distortion that im thinking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPf8BR7YYkw


----------



## Guest (Oct 18, 2008)

Budda said:


> .... ZW isnt that heavy



I guess I have to mirror your post and say that's cool. That's your opinion. In my mind Zakk is the quintessential Metal God. 

2¢

.


----------



## Guest (Oct 18, 2008)

I have a user patch on my AX2-212 that is pretty close to that, not that I've ever found a use for it. I edited it from a preset that was almost unlistenable and yes it uses the Recto model. I also edited it to another patch that is much, much less dirty and less processed. Used that one for a couple of 3 Doors Down songs we did for a short while.


----------



## Guest (Oct 18, 2008)

Hey, what happened there? There's a couple of posts missing. One from me and I think two from Budda.


----------



## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

Yoda said:


> I didn't say I thought it was the heaviest, I said I thought it was the best. Some metal tones out there just have too much gain. Too much mud. Yes, there is a such thing as too much gain. There, I said it. Zakk in those years had a thick fat sound with lots of harmonic overtones and still had plenty of note definition. Plus it just sounds heavy to me. Heavier than Metallica IMO. And I think I percieve it heavier _because_ of the fact he sounds heavy using less gain than some others might. It speaks to me on the inside that the _man_ is heavy and he doesn't need 27 distortion stages to sound heavy.
> 
> 2¢
> 
> ...


I would agree with this. I think too much distortion can soften the sound a lot, especially when people are scooping the mids too.
I feel that Tom Morello has a very aggressive sound but it's not Super Saturated. He uses a Tele Neck pickup into a JCM 800 and I think the gain is only about half way (that's not much for a single coil), but he completely cranks the mids.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Pepper_Roni said:


> I have to agree with budda on that. Mesa is metal, Lamb of God uses it and there ****ing brilliant. I just can't afford that calliber of amp. If you can find an affordable version then please point me in that direction


it wont sound like a mesa Mk IV running how they run it, but look for a peavey XXL 212 combo used - they dont make them anymore. the XXL line is an affordable amp, and it sounds killer when dialed in properly. i'd use an XXL head as a backup for my JSX.



Yoda said:


> I didn't say I thought it was the heaviest, I said I thought it was the best. Some metal tones out there just have too much gain. Too much mud. Yes, there is a such thing as too much gain. There, I said it. Zakk in those years had a thick fat sound with lots of harmonic overtones and still had plenty of note definition. Plus it just sounds heavy to me. Heavier than Metallica IMO. And I think I percieve it heavier _because_ of the fact he sounds heavy using less gain than some others might. It speaks to me on the inside that the _man_ is heavy and he doesn't need 27 distortion stages to sound heavy.
> 
> 2¢
> 
> ...


some metal is made to be supersaturated and high gain - but those guys still usually go for the most articulate clear tones they can.

have you heard arch enemy? Opeth? they dont use much gain, but they do have a very heavy sound (opeth likes to switch it up between metal, rock, and acoustic).

i've been thinking metallica's stuff has been sounding light for the last 3 or 4 years haha.

and not many professionals in metal (that i can think of at least) scoop their mids. hell, the nu-metal bands that are still around today (suchas mudvayne) dont scoop their mids.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Paul said:


> Choose your amp with your ears, not your eyes.


it don't get no simpler than that!


----------



## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

Ok I have to ask. What the hell are scooped mids lol


----------



## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

Budda knows way more about metal than me; and EQing for those styles.

Scooping the mids is just turning the mids down lower than the bass and treble. It's called that because in a multiband equalizer, the sliders would make a scoop shape all together (like a smile). Or you could say that you are "scooping the mids" right out of your tone. The opposite would be the mid-hump (or a frown).


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Pepper_Roni said:


> Ok I have to ask. What the hell are scooped mids lol


what matt said, and:

listen to dimebag darrel or anyone else with a "buzzsaw" tone - that is scooped mids and too much gain.

why people find this tone tasteful is beyond me, but clearly some people do. it hurts my ears and makes me cringe.


----------

