# neck reset



## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

! I just recently recieved an old parlor guitar by silvertone.The problem i have is it needs a neck reset.I wont bother asking how its done,since i can learn on frets or the mimf.What i do want to know is,well,there is a crack in the top that goes under the fretboard.Would taking off the fretboard where it sits on the body couse the crack to spread?If so i am tempted to pre drill a hole on the heel,screw the heel to the body and fill in the hole with some sort of plug.Oh yes,my thanks to Wannabegood for giving me this great little guitar :food-smiley-004:
Next time im in saskatoon the second beer is on me.


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## Lab123 (May 27, 2007)

Buck...a couple of pics would help us to better understand your problem.....By the way...nice job on your youtube videos....Larry


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

sorry i dont know how to post pics.I thought about it a little more lastnight and decided i would like to just screw it back in place.The gap of the heel from the body is about 2 to 3 millimeters.My first concern is that if i try to attatch the neck with a screw,it might crack the neck as the wood is very old and dried out.Is this a good idea?I dont want to take the easy way out but im very impatient to play this guitar.On the other hand,luthiery is somthing i want to get into but i dont know if this guitar is really worth the trouble.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

i wouldnt use screws-like you said it might crack, and its kind of a poor repair-
the crack extends beneath the fretboard?
can you flex the neck backward by pulling on the headstock?
if so, can you flex it so that the gap at the heel is flush to the body?
and if/when you do flex it, does the crack get larger or smaller?
the simplest way for a good fix here would be to get the fretboard extension free of the guitars top. then use a belt, or a rope and wedge of wood wrapped around the body to force the neck heel flush and glue it in place. 
then glue and splint the top crack, then reglue the fretboard extension.
these kind of things are common with those types of guitars, and its real easy to just remove the neck and fix it right, if your so inclined. only takes a bit of steam and a putty knife, and you can make a solid and permanent repair.
if indeed you can flex the neck into place as it is, then thatll work just as good. i would still free the fretboard from the guitars top tho first, the guitars geometry has changed and resetting the fretboard extension will compensate for it, and reduce the possibility of further damage to the top.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

if your interested in learning this stuff, those silvertone guitars are perfect, and a neck reset is a necessary skill in guitar repair- just getting it off and seeing how it works is an experience well worth the price of the guitar.
if you start tonight you can be playing it in 24 hours!

if you cant post pics, feel free to email any to me by clicking my name. ill upload em for you.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

double posting sucks


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

Thanks again fraser,i see your point and it would most likely couse more problems than doing it the right way.What type of glue do you suggest for the neck?If hide glue is your answer,where would i find some in a small town?


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

im not sure where to find hide glue- i would use a good woodworkers white glue- ive set necks using the mastercraft carpenters glue from canadian tire, so it does work, and its readily available. ive been using it for the last 6 months on everything actually, without issue.
the glue of choice for guitar repair is titebond, but its not easy to locate. as long as its good quality carpenters glue it will be fine- dont use anything you get at the dollar store lol
most importantly, be sure to remove all old glue residue from the mating surfaces, and also be sure to clamp it well-
when removing the neck, i use a cheap kettle, with a peice of hose, and i put one of those pins you use to put air in a football on the business end of the hose- it helps to be able to direct the steam. 
on a guitar like yours, id heat up a putty knife, over the kettle, and release the fingerboard extension first- ( use masking tape to protect the top of the guitar, but dont use cheap tape, imported tape will go all funky with the heat and will be more of a hindrance than a help)
then direct steam through the gap at the heel , wiggling the neck until it frees up. youll likely find that the old glue mostly wipes off with a rag at this point-
go slow, and enjoy the process-


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

thanks,one more if you will.I was on the frets website and the way he used the needle was to drill a hole in the fret board and stick the needle in the hole.My problem is that i dont have a dot marker that far up the neck.Is it possible to use the steam from the outside?The neck reset he was doing on the website was a martin.I'm assuming the neck on my silvertone is a little different.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

yup, thats how they do it. ive found tho that on harmony/silvertone type guitars it is not necessary to do this.the joints are rikkety as it is.
they are softening the glue from above, but then you have to replace the fret. on a guitar of this age, its not always necessary, and its a lot of work to replace and level that 1 fret


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## Lab123 (May 27, 2007)

Resets on my guitars are simple....Remove a couple of bolts and do the necessary adjustments...One hour tops and the guitar is back in business...Removing a neck that is glued on is not an easy operation...Do not drill an hole through a dot marker...You will drill through your truss rod...Too much steam injected into the hole will lock everything up solid...Even if your are successfull getting the neck off ,without damaging the body,you still have to make sure that it is properly aligned before you glue it back up . Then you have to repair the damage done to the finish.....If the guitar is worth spending some cash on ....do it ,and get an experienced luthier to do it....My two cents worth....Larry


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

Thanks larry and thanks again on the comment about my videos.Does anyone out there know how gorilla glue works for guitars?Should i use it to glue my guitar neck in place?I was told at a local store it was stronger than wood glue,my problem is i dont know if i can remove the neck again once ive used it.


*edit*
I just researched the stuff and found out for myself.Anyone have any suggestions for other wood glue?I cant seem to find the kind fraser was talking about.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

> Anyone have any suggestions for other wood glue?I cant seem to find the kind fraser was talking about.


damn, and i complain when i cant get parts lol.
what you want is some kind of carpenters glue, white or yellow likely. ive heard of folks using stuff like elmers or lepages white glues, but ive never tried it, and i doubt i would. 

i think you are right on the gorilla glue- you want to do a repair that can be undone in the future- stay away from epoxies, cements or super glues etc.

did you try these places?

econo lumber- 
306-425-2133

La Ronge Home Hardware
306-425-4000

waynes lumber
306-425-2073

or in desperation, 
scrapbook plus
306-425-2429
lol

man, your town looks like an awesome place to do some fishing- my canoe hasnt been in water fer years.
there has to be a good carpenters glue someplace-
i would say order online, but that can take ages(as ive been finding out myself)
if you do, just go all out and get this-
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Glues,_adhesives/Wood_glue/Franklin_Titebond_Glue.html


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Lab123 said:


> Resets on my guitars are simple....Remove a couple of bolts and do the necessary adjustments...One hour tops and the guitar is back in business...Removing a neck that is glued on is not an easy operation...Do not drill an hole through a dot marker...You will drill through your truss rod...Too much steam injected into the hole will lock everything up solid...Even if your are successfull getting the neck off ,without damaging the body,you still have to make sure that it is properly aligned before you glue it back up . Then you have to repair the damage done to the finish.....If the guitar is worth spending some cash on ....do it ,and get an experienced luthier to do it....My two cents worth....Larry


larry, if i was to design an acoustic guitar myself, it would have a bolt on neck such as yours. would sure save a lot of pain, as a neck reset is pretty much inevitable at some point. ive heard that as long as the wood to wood contact is good, there is no loss of tone transfer. and i figure if there was a deficiency, id make it up with the fatter strings id be using because i wouldnt be worried about having to reset the neck-
parlor size body, 14 frets to body, no cutaway, ladder braced, bolt on neck, slotted headstock, cedar top, oil finish, no bindings or inlays. yup thats what id build ifn i could.:smile:


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## Lab123 (May 27, 2007)

fraser said:


> larry,
> parlor size body, 14 frets to body, no cutaway, ladder braced, bolt on neck, slotted headstock, cedar top, oil finish, no bindings or inlays. yup thats what id build ifn i could.:smile:


Fraser....Why not go for it....The first guitar I built I used Very few tools compared to what I have now.....It took longer but I was pleased with the results.....Ladder bracing is ok but I think you will find that the X brace will give a lot more strength to the top...Cedar tops are fantastic...oil finish is ok But I didn't care for it...French Polish is time consuming but well worth the effort...No Bindings.....Do you mean on the body or on the fingerboard?...On the body they protect the edges,seal against moisture and look darn good....On the neck they are an option....Inlays are what catches the eye and helps sell if you are so inclined to......Larry


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Lab123 said:


> Fraser....Why not go for it....The first guitar I built I used Very few tools compared to what I have now.....It took longer but I was pleased with the results.....Ladder bracing is ok but I think you will find that the X brace will give a lot more strength to the top...Cedar tops are fantastic...oil finish is ok But I didn't care for it...French Polish is time consuming but well worth the effort...No Bindings.....Do you mean on the body or on the fingerboard?...On the body they protect the edges,seal against moisture and look darn good....On the neck they are an option....Inlays are what catches the eye and helps sell if you are so inclined to......Larry


well right now, although i could gain access to the tools id need, it would be a huge pain, likely i couldnt concentate my efforts properly. i dont even currently have a workbench in my home, and im tripping over guitars as it is just going for a leak. i can make a bunch of parts into an electric guitar, but an acoustic is another thing. i dont even find enough time to play, and right now thats more important. one day ill try it i hope. makes more sense to pay a builder really.
my favourite guitars are ladder braced, and id use an easy to apply finish of tru oil or boiled linseed, easy to maintain or repair-
binding on the body im easy on- but not on the neck, no binding on the neck fer me. 
no inlays is to save money for beer cuz thats the way i roll.:smile:


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## Guest (May 14, 2008)

fraser said:


> what you want is some kind of carpenters glue, white or yellow likely. ive heard of folks using stuff like elmers or lepages white glues, but ive never tried it, and i doubt i would.










I did a reset project too. When I glued
the fretboard back on, I didn't realize that
it slipped a bit during clamping and had to 
take it off and redo it. It was a little tougher 
than when I first took it off. So, yeah, 
carpenters glue (yellow) works just fine.


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## Grenvilleter (Dec 22, 2007)

Unflavored gelatin is essentially food grade hide glue. I think I got that tip from Frank Ford's frets.com. 
It's suppose to be better the 2nd time its warmed up and melted into usable glue. Place your glue pot in a slow cooker or electric frying pan with water and a thermometer placed in it. Temp should be around 150 deg +- 5 deg. when using. Keeps about 2-3 weeks in the fridge then throw out unused portions and make new stuff if needed.


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

sounds reasonable.Well i now have most of the supplies,minus the clamps but i can get those tomorrow.I've been doing some reading up on neck resets and have run into a problem.The guitar i'm going to be working on doesnt have a normal bridge.I dont know what to call it exactly,the bridge is moveable like an archtop bridge.When i took off the strings the bridge came off.My question is,how do i measure a proper neck angle with this type of bridge?


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

xuthal said:


> sounds reasonable.Well i now have most of the supplies,minus the clamps but i can get those tomorrow.I've been doing some reading up on neck resets and have run into a problem.The guitar i'm going to be working on doesnt have a normal bridge.I dont know what to call it exactly,the bridge is moveable like an archtop bridge.When i took off the strings the bridge came off.My question is,how do i measure a proper neck angle with this type of bridge?


if im still on the same page as you, then youre only regluing a neck that is slipping- your not actually 'resetting' the neck, i mean your not looking to alter its angle to the body- merely you want it to be firmly reglued to it as it was originally-
guitars with tailpeice / and movable bridge like this rarely need an actual neck angle adjustment, usually once you re-secure them they are fine-
you are afforded a large level of adjustment for action issues with this type of bridge setup in the event that there is a problem, and the tension distribution is very different from regular flat top designs-
once you get the neck off, id dry fit it in place, with a long straight edge running from the nut to the bridge id estimate action- a string seated in the nut and thru the bridge and tailpiece would be a pretty accurate gauge-
if the height from the top of the twelfth fret to the string is acceptable within a 32nd or two, id proceed as you were. 
this is assuming that the guitars top is straight- if there is any bowing or distortion to the guitars body, then you may need to re-angle the neck- again, the best gauge is to dry fit it all and take measurements of the string angle and height- if its way high then there is a problem youll want to compensate for while the neck is off.


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## WannabeGood (Oct 24, 2007)

Hey Buck,
Good to see....... I mean read that your well into the repair of "my" guitar LOL. Hope your taking photos to post of your progress. Looking forward to seeing a video soon of you in action with that guitar.

Regards,:food-smiley-015:
:Need Pics


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

Yup,gonna be putting up a vid on youtube as soon as its finished.I think ill try some blues slide.All i got to do now is get off may ass and pick up those clamps lol.


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

when ya get that sucka dun I got one that needs the neck replaced......how much are ya chargin????
cheers
Gerry


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

sorry Gerry im over in saskatchewan.I dont know if i would be the best to replace a guitar neck anyway.


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

Today i was trying to remove the fretboard from the parlor body.I tried frasers method with the putty knife but it wouldnt budge.After this failed i hooked up the hose to my kettle and tried to steam off the fretboard.Not only did it not budge after about 15 minutes of steaming,the fretboard was still holding as strong as before.Could it be that the silvertone models of that era were made with something other than wood/hide glue?


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## Lab123 (May 27, 2007)

Buck...I suspect you didn't get enough heat to the glued area....Get an electric flat iron that can get you high temperatures Make a caul a to place on the fret board . A board of about 1/4" should do it...cut slots in the board to match the frets on the guitar. The board will make good contact now with the fingerboard. Remove you nut, this is a good area to start to pry up the fingerboard....Place the iron on top of the caul ....Be careful it will get quite hot...Keep checking the glue to see if it is starting to soften....When it does work your way down the neck....Go slow, you don't want to tear out any mahogany....I have removed fingerboards, tops, backs ,bridges...etc....Heat will work if you get the heat to the glue.....Take care and good luck.... Larry


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

i doubt that anything other than hide glue or white glue was used originally. they came off assembly lines, so its doubtful yours was made differently-
however somebody couldve used any number of products at some point on it-
those fingerboard extensions often come loose as the glue ages and crystallizes- and the top changes shape etc, so somebody couldve smeared epoxy or something in there, or perhaps the neck was already reset at some point.
like Lab123 says, more aggresive heating may be needed.
once i removed an epoxied fretboard extension- had to take some real thin sheet steel, .050" shim stock- sharpened the end with a file, heated it over a kettle, then worked it under the fretboard. wiggled it back and forth, pushed gently deeper each time.
took hours lol.
in any case, if you have an iron handy, try Lab123s suggestion- tho i wouldnt start at the nut, you just want to seperate the fretboard from the top of the guitar, not from the neck itself-
be careful to mask off the guitar well, those old finishes will easily dissolve with heat.

one other option-
your original problem was not that the neck was misaligned, just that it was coming loose at the heel- correct?
if so, then you could try to steam the neck joint free, get it loose enough that it moves, and you can get it to sit flush like you want it, clean it up as much as you can, reglue and reseat it, leaving the fretboard extension in place. i think they call this "slipping the neck" or "slipping the heel".
not sure- 
but if it might work, its worth the try to avoid the aggravation and possible cosmetic damage......
again, best of luck to ya


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## Lab123 (May 27, 2007)

Sorry, should have read all the posts....Thought you were removing the fretboard....Good luck ...Larry


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

Thanks fraser,i think ill try the other option first.As for the cosmetic damage...the masking tape i used wasnt very good at all.Theres some damage to the finish.Is there any particular brands i should be using?


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

To answer your question i am just re gluing the heel back in place.The heel is lifted about 1 1/2 centemeters.Is that enough to simply re glue the heel in place?


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

well, if i could flex the neck, by pulling on it, until the heel sits flush, i would simply glue it and clamp it flush.
if not, then youve got to loosen the joint.

if you just want a slide guitar, filling the gap with white glue would work, but personally id fix the joint, at least so the heel is flush to the guitar- then you can adjust the action in either direction.
try your steam method up into the neck joint, through the gap at the heel, and wiggle the neck up and down a bit- see if it loosens up.
to protect the guitar when i pull necks, i use the 3m brand of masking tape- 
just because canadian tire has it, and its better than the dollar store stuff
i put paste wax on the tape- it helps tools to slide, rather than dig into the tape and then the wood.
but mostly, i go real slow and try to avoid hurting the finish.
dont let any of this frustrate you- chalk it up to experience-
you can use dye or paint to disguise the scars, and brush a little lacquer on to help hide them


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

Yesterday i went out and bought some needles for my hose(now that sounded strange).Anyways i got up today after the power went out ,used one of the needles on my glue bottle to put the glue in the crack.It worked.Now i just need to know how long i should let it dry.Everything looks fine for now.I think ill try something a little more ambitious next,maybe build a ukulele from a kit:smile:
I gotta say this is getting addicting and i havnt even built anything yet.
The glue was put in and clamped about 1:00.Would it be safe to unclamp it yet?


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## WannabeGood (Oct 24, 2007)

*Update please*

Hey Buck.......
Are you sliding on that parlour yet or is it bonfire fuel? :smile: Inquiring minds want to know..........well there might be one or two that might be mildly curious. Any new vids?

Regards,:wave:


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

sorry about that,i didnt have access to a camera untill today when my brother got back.I dont know when ill be able to make a video but it shouldnt be for too long.I tried slipping the heel like fraser said and it worked sort of.I was able to get the heel narrowed for lack of a better word to about half the space.As soon as i can find an old iron to loosen the fingerboard i can do it properly.Until then its a good slide guitar.I should have the vid posted soon with an original i composed a couple nights ago.Stay tuned:food-smiley-004:


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