# The CANADIAN PAF Pickup Shootout of 2013



## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

​

Here we go, folks!


The website is up and running! Click on the image above and it should
redirect you to the page.


It has been a long time coming, but we've done it.


The voting system is as follows:
- listen to all the clips before making a decision
- have the voting page open while listening
- rank in order of 1 - 8, 1 being your most favourite sounding set and 8 being the least.




There is a catch/curve-ball, one of the sets was used twice, BUT
in a different guitar. Therefore, there are 8 clips, but 7 pickups. 
We have kept all variables constant. We've
used the same pickups, electronics (pots, caps, etc.), and hardware
(strings, pickup heights, etc.). The only difference between the
two guitars are just the actual guitars (wood) themselves.


*PLEASE LEAVE A COMMENT BELOW ON WHICH TWO SETS OF CLIPS DO YOU THINK HAVE THE SAME
EXACT PICKUPS, BUT ON DIFFERENT WOODS/GUITARS.*


This is an attempt to show/settle the debate that the wood and
construction of the guitar can affect the tone despite the exact same
setup.




Thank you and please have fun!


And to the winders, thank you for your support and trust!

A BIG THANK YOU TO:
- Rod of Skatterbrane Pickups
- Alex of Wizz Pickups
- James of ReWind Electric Pickups
- Mike of Reilander Custom Guitars and Pickups
- Jeff of Sheptone Guitar Pickups
- Jon of JS Moore (Tone For Days) Guitar Pickups




We will reveal the results at the end of July 2013. :dude:


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

Thanks for doing this. I listened, I voted.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

zdogma said:


> Thanks for doing this. I listened, I voted.



Thank you!


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Well done.

It would have been very interesting to have a real PAF in the line-up.

Its hard to comment on which set was used twice. Assuming both guitars were the same brand/model (not a Gibson vs an Epi, or a Standard vs Traditional for example) I would anticipate a similar tone. Samples on the top of my list are more similar than samples towards the bottom of my list, so the set used twice could be the top two, the bottom two, or any two in between. It may be more gaming to identify one sample using the set, then having to guess the other sample using the same set.

I'll be anxiously awaiting the results.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

dradlin said:


> Well done.
> 
> It would have been very interesting to have a real PAF in the line-up.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your input, dradlin!
This is going to be a really hard one and we've decided to keep it that way.
The furthest I am going to say is that we used two Gibson R8's with the same EXACT hardware, pickups, pots, caps, strings, etc.
I meant exact that they ARE the same as transferred parts from one guitar to the other.
The ONLY variable in the entire thing are the woods of the guitars.

There has been a huge debate about the woods not playing a role in the actual tone of the amplified sound of an electric guitar.
We're hoping to settle the argument!


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Not much love, eh?

I guess this isn't a guitar forum after all, is it? hwopv

Comments and voting on the survey are very much appreciated!


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

I will take a peek this evening when i get home from work.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Very cool! Thanks for doing this! I'm gonna hold off on listening til I'm at home and can hook up with my HD280s, my YSM1ps and my Hifi system. Should be interesting!


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Couldn't get the link to work from my iPad, will try from a PC when I have more time.


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

Only listened to #1, 2 and 3 so far. 

Didn't like #2. #3 has a little more top end than #1 - I wonder how that would sound through a non-master vol Marshall.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

VOTED! 

Had to throw my headphones on. Really looking forward to reading the results on this one.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

very interesting... cant wait to see the unveiling...

i voted.


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## brimc76 (Feb 14, 2008)

My vote is in. Thanks.


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## GUInessTARS (Dec 28, 2007)

Very interesting comparison, I thought 3 and 4 sounded very similar. Although if I'm wrong I'm blaming my speakers!


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I too thought sets 3 & 4 sounded identical…but who knows.



GUInessTARS said:


> Very interesting comparison, I thought 3 and 4 sounded very similar. Although if I'm wrong I'm blaming my speakers!


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

i thought they all sounded similar........haha

except for 1 & 2. they were the most different of the bunch. 2 especially.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

blam said:


> i thought they all sounded similar........haha


Yes, my ear adjusted so quickly that any initial difference quickly faded away. Also, the clips don't always play the exact same things; on a few I could hear some open strings ringing that made everything sound kind of messy. No dis on the OP, I cannot play the same thing even twice (unless it is the same boring old lick I _always _play LOL)

Clips 7 and 8 were nice but I got lost with the details of anything in the middle (which was what now?). I ended up comparing the book ends most of the time (clip 1 and 2/7 and 8).


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

blam said:


> *i thought they all sounded similar........haha*
> 
> except for 1 & 2. they were the most different of the bunch. 2 especially.


I thought so too...All these recordings were a lot cleaner than I usually play, so my ears weren't of much value for this.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

hollowbody said:


> Very cool! Thanks for doing this! I'm gonna hold off on listening til I'm at home and can hook up with my HD280s, my YSM1ps and my Hifi system. Should be interesting!


Awesome, Saro! Please do let us know what you think of it!



Roryfan said:


> Couldn't get the link to work from my iPad, will try from a PC when I have more time.


Dude, it would be great to hear your input! As a fellow Les Paul enthusiast and owner of several high-end PAF replica sets, your opinion carries a lot of weight!



LydianGuitars said:


> Only listened to #1, 2 and 3 so far.
> 
> Didn't like #2. #3 has a little more top end than #1 - I wonder how that would sound through a non-master vol Marshall.


It is indeed a non-master volume Marshall amp! .


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

TWRC said:


> I too thought sets 3 & 4 sounded identical…but who knows.


That seems to be the majority of the opinions. We'll see!



blam said:


> i thought they all sounded similar........haha
> 
> except for 1 & 2. they were the most different of the bunch. 2 especially.






traynor_garnet said:


> Yes, my ear adjusted so quickly that any initial difference quickly faded away. Also, the clips do always play the exact same things on a few I could hear so open strings ringing that made everything sound kind of muted and muffled. No dis on the OP, I cannot play the same thing even twice (unless it is the same boring old lick I _always _play LOL)
> 
> Clips 7 and 8 were nice but I got lost with the details of anything in the middle (which was what now?). I ended up comparing the book ends most of the time (clip 1 and 2/7 and 8).


I guess the problem with such tests are that the results are going to be a bit skewed because of the primacy and recency effects,
but hey, we tried our best to provide the best testing scenario possible! 



Diablo said:


> I thought so too...All these recordings were a lot cleaner than I usually play, so my ears weren't of much value for this.


No worries! We thought that the real PAF sound has to be ran a little on the cleaner side. Nevertheless, thank you for your input!


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

vasthorizon said:


> - rank in order of 1 - 8, 1 being your most favourite sounding set and 8 being the least.


Bear in mind the question here - which is your favorite sounding, not which is more vintage PAF like. Quite possibly ones favorite could be the least PAF like.

It would be interesting to query which one of these comes closest to the listeners notion of a vintage PAF....especially since there is no vintage PAF in the lineup.


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

That was hard to choose. I preferred different pups depending on the clip. There's not a lot separating them to my ear.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Agreed, not a lot of difference. I found 1 and 2 darker and my least favorite. None were bad though.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

I'm having a problem voting as I too, found some similar. It's hard to say that one pickup is better or worse than another pickup when they sound the same to me. It may not be fair to the people that submitted the pickups for evaluation. 

Vasthorizon: Is there anyway I could just pick my favorite 2 or 3 pickups or would that through off your study?


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## Brennan (Apr 9, 2008)

I had the same problem as JHarasym, I had different choices for each position (ie, one sounded best in position 1 while another sounded best in position 4). The majority of them are extremely similar in tone, and I'd be willing to bet that the bulk of the minor tonal differences come more from the player than the pickups (1 and 2 being the obvious exceptions, neither of which I cared for).


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## SKATTERBRANE (Feb 14, 2013)

Is there a way to publically see the tally?


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## Solaceguitars (May 3, 2010)

I voted! gret job on this project BTW, it takes a LOT of effort to put this stuff together, the least we can do is take the time to listen and debate
Some really nice sounding pickups in there!


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Guitar101 said:


> I'm having a problem voting as I too, found some similar. It's hard to say that one pickup is better or worse than another pickup when they sound the same to me. It may not be fair to the people that submitted the pickups for evaluation.
> 
> Vasthorizon: Is there anyway I could just pick my favorite 2 or 3 pickups or would that through off your study?


Hello, Guitar101. The voting is set to have responses for all fields/options. With the low number that we're getting it will throw off the votes.



SKATTERBRANE said:


> Is there a way to publically see the tally?


Let me check on that, Rod. It was set up as private so as not to skew the votes of the latter voters.



Solaceguitars said:


> I voted! gret job on this project BTW, it takes a LOT of effort to put this stuff together, the least we can do is take the time to listen and debate
> Some really nice sounding pickups in there!


Thank you! The pickups all sounded terrific and I am having a really hard time choosing the best for that guitar!


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

I demand results!!


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## bluesguitar1972 (Jul 16, 2011)

Some of the pickups were less PAF sounding than others. Looking forward to finding which was which. For me, I really like vintage style pickups, and to my ears that was 6 and 1 (in that order). It's hard to say for certain, as it's really not my amp tone I shoot for and I was listening through computer speakers which is hardly a fair test. 
Thanks for all the effort, but when do we see the results???  Be cool to see how things are shaping up.


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## SKATTERBRANE (Feb 14, 2013)

The link does not work for me now. Are there going to be results published? The big reveal?


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

I think the OP is recovering from an unfortunate medical condition so the results may be sidetracked a bit.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

And btw, you're right, the link is no longer operational. You should think about donating a set of your PUPS for the GC Contest. it would be a great prize.


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## bluesguitar1972 (Jul 16, 2011)

Intrepid said:


> I think the OP is recovering from an unfortunate medical condition so the results may be sidetracked a bit.


Damn, that's unfortunate. Hope the OP is doing alright.


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## SKATTERBRANE (Feb 14, 2013)

Intrepid said:


> And btw, you're right, the link is no longer operational. You should think about donating a set of your PUPS for the GC Contest. it would be a great prize.


I do not know what the GC contest is. But maybe I can donate the set I sent for the shootout to this contest? I hope he recovers well. He is a very nice person.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Bummer about Vast not feeling well. Hope you get well soon!

I never got a chance to vote because I kept putting it off til I was at a nice-sounding rig to listen through. Hopefully we can get the site back up for a few days so I can actually get around to doing this


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## bluesguitar1972 (Jul 16, 2011)

SKATTERBRANE said:


> I do not know what the GC contest is. But maybe I can donate the set I sent for the shootout to this contest? I hope he recovers well. He is a very nice person.


That would be cool - I've heard only good things about your pickups, though haven't tried them yet. Do you do a Firebird vintage wind as well?


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## SKATTERBRANE (Feb 14, 2013)

Yes, I do make a Firebird version of my minibucker. Use the pulldown menu and you will find: http://www.skatterbranepickups.com/pickups/windbranes-minibuckers/


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

That would be fantastic. You should let our Admin know about this offer. Thank you.


SKATTERBRANE said:


> I do not know what the GC contest is. But maybe I can donate the set I sent for the shootout to this contest? I hope he recovers well. He is a very nice person.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Anyone able to contact the OP to see if he can ship the Skatterbrane pups? Skatterbrane will offer those up as a contest prize but would like to use those as they are already in Canada


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## SKATTERBRANE (Feb 14, 2013)

Thanks for your help!! This will be very cool.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Gotta run, folks. Been really busy these days.
The university where I am hosting the website is flushing out its student and faculty
list because of the summer and the new start of the term this September.
I have lost the ability to host the shootout page for now.

Anyway, because of the lack of time to do a results video, here are the results of
the shoot-out.

The way the rating scale goes is that the set with the lowest rating is
on the top spot and so on. Keep in mind - with the sample size being only 39, it is
very inconclusive.

So the results:

1st place: Set 5 (3.92)
2nd Place: Set 3 (4.21)
3rd place: Set 4 (4.28)
4th place: Set 6 (4.38)
5th place: Set 7 (4.54)
6th place: Set 1 (4.56)
7th place: Set 8 (4.79)
8th place: Set 2 (5.31)


paf_shootout_results by vasthorizon, on Flickr





















And the big question: Which set is featured twice keeping ALL the variables constant and only having the difference in wood / guitar?

*They are sets 1 and 7.*

Big difference, eh?











Sets will be announced later as I don't have my notes with me.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

Did Guitars Canada get in tough with you about the Skatterbrane PUPS being donated for a GC contest?


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## GUInessTARS (Dec 28, 2007)

Very interesting results Mr. Vast, thanks a lot for doing something different, fascinating and honestly presented. Well done.


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## bluesguitar1972 (Jul 16, 2011)

very cool, thanks!
Can't wait to see what's what for the pups


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Intrepid said:


> Did Guitars Canada get in tough with you about the Skatterbrane PUPS being donated for a GC contest?


I'm in contact with Skatterbrane as he has the final say!



GUInessTARS said:


> Very interesting results Mr. Vast, thanks a lot for doing something different, fascinating and honestly presented. Well done.


You're welcome! It has been a wild journey for me, but I absolutely loved doing it! Thank you!



bluesguitar1972 said:


> very cool, thanks!
> Can't wait to see what's what for the pups


Alright, here we go folks:

8th place (Set 2): Skatterbrane Benwabranes
7th place (Set 8): Gibson Burstbucker 1 and 2
6th place (Set 1): Wizz Premium PAF
5th place (Set 7): Wizz Premium PAF (On a different guitar)
4th place (Set 6): Sheptone Blueskys



AND





3rd place (Set 4): JS Moore V59 Premium Vintage


2nd place (Set 3): Reilander RH-2 PAFs


1st place (Set 5): ReWinds PAF-1 Set










...AND THERE YOU HAVE IT, LADIES AND GENTS.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to do this with you!
It has been a rough ride for me, but I did my best. Thanks again! :dude::dude::dude:


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

wow. congrats to Jon for making top 3. I have his pups in 3 of my guitars. love them all. cant wait to get home and compare my picks.

and thanks to vasthorizon for doing this


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

Jon winds great PUPS so I'm not surprised with the top 3 finish. However I'm mystified by the fact that the skatterbranes finished 8th. Everything I've heard about them would indicate they are stellar PUPS. Thanks to the OP.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Intrepid said:


> Jon winds great PUPS so I'm not surprised with the top 3 finish. However I'm mystified by the fact that the skatterbranes finished 8th. Everything I've heard about them would indicate they are stellar PUPS. Thanks to the OP.


Thanks, Intrepid!

Here's the thing. Rod winds a fantastic PAF pickup. Here is a quote from James, owner of ReWind Electric Pickups:
"Set 2 (Skatterbranes) may be a favorite, perhaps because it stands out as a little fuller and thicker, not that it's better than the others. They are ALL excellent! I feel that set 2 sounds big and mean, without loosing much articulation, and has a really thick warm and fuzzy woman-tone. I like the way it "goes both ways" and plays good cop/bad cop with the amp."

This is coming from a fellow winder who has researched and listened to THE PAF tone.

My best conclusion? The Skatterbranes are very good at what it does: PAF. The thing is, is the PAF tone really for everyone?

If I had the funds, I would go for the Skatterbranes in a heartbeat. It captures the tone and style that I am after - jazz, blues, mellow and singing lead.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

blam said:


> wow. congrats to Jon for making top 3. I have his pups in 3 of my guitars. love them all. cant wait to get home and compare my picks.
> 
> and thanks to vasthorizon for doing this


\

Thanks, blam!


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

Just checked my favorites vs the poll winners. Jon's pups were my #1 followed by reilanders


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Will the sound clips be re-hosted? It seems incomplete not to be able to refer back to the clips. Create a soundcloud account and post them there if hosting is a problem.

My take is that the results of the process identified the favored tones, not necessarily the most PAF like.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

i think you have made a valid point.


dradlin said:


> Will the sound clips be re-hosted? It seems incomplete not to be able to refer back to the clips. Create a soundcloud account and post them there if hosting is a problem.
> 
> My take is that the results of the process identified the favored tones, not necessarily the most PAF like.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

dradlin said:


> Will the sound clips be re-hosted? It seems incomplete not to be able to refer back to the clips. Create a soundcloud account and post them there if hosting is a problem.
> 
> My take is that the results of the process identified the favored tones, not necessarily the most PAF like.


Agreed. It would have been *really* cool if we could have had a set of actual PAFs to refer to, but those ain't exactly cheap


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## MReilander (Mar 16, 2011)

I have a copy of the clips that I can email to who ever is interested.


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## Pstar (Jan 28, 2011)

1 canadian winder?


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

Two actually by my count. Myself and Reilander.


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## The Kicker Of Elves (Jul 20, 2006)

My favourite guitars and the ones that sound the best, with JS Moore's and Reilanders (L to R.)

They sound different (both because of the materials and how I spec'd the pickups) but if I had to pick just 2, these would be them.

(Sorry for the quick smartphone pic.)


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

Lots of PUP talent in Canada. Don't forget our own Copperhead on the East coast.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2014)

This has been down too long! I just uploaded all of VastHorizon's work to my server;

VastHorizon's Canadian PAF Shootout

Soundclips should work fine now :thumb:


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I can get it to work on my computer. Is it a MAC thing?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Has anyone heard how Vasthorizon is doing?

Any GC member that knows him personally and can contact him and find out?

Cheers

Dave


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## MReilander (Mar 16, 2011)

CheopisIV from MLP has migrated Vast's work to his personal server...

http://www.roadhouseanalog.com/PAFShootout/


I haven't heard from Vast since he posted the results.


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## MReilander (Mar 16, 2011)

^oops, I didn't see his post on the bottom of the last page.



> I can get it to work on my computer. Is it a MAC thing?


Try it through firefox. Works on my mac just fine.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

greco said:


> Has anyone heard how Vasthorizon is doing?
> 
> Any GC member that knows him personally and can contact him and find out?
> 
> ...


I think it's him I see at the gym on occasion. Only met him twice so I'm not sure. I've e-mailed him so I'll fill you in when I get a response.


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## CheopisIV (Jan 27, 2016)

Oh man! I dropped that domain a while back when I found there was already a 'Roadhouse Pickups' and didn't want to step on toes. I still have Vasthorizon's folder so moved it to my domain; Linky here.

*The CANADIAN PAF Pickup Shootout of 2013*​


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

CouldNt open on ipad. Will check websites tho!! Thanks for the info. Love all things Canadian.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I'm repeating this question from 2014. I met Vast (and his family) once at a Tim Horton's for a 1 x 12 cab (IIRC) deal.

Has anyone heard how Vasthorizon is doing?

Any GC member that knows him personally and can contact him and find out?

Cheers

Dave


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