# Having my guitar modified



## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

In Oct, i will bring my 1981 Ibanez Blazer (BL350) to a luthier to have the electronics changed.
He told me what he can do is wire the guitar like a Strat, and install a push-button in the volume knob which will activate humbucking sounds in the same pickups.

I am wondering what else i can suggest to him before he does any work.
I was wondering how to configure the pickup wiring to get more tones. He is an excellent luthier from the reviews i've read.
I had it modified to add another tone control like a Strat, in 1982.
What i have in the guitar now are the three original BL350 stock pickups in the neck and middle positions and i have a DiMarzio at the bridge. The original BL350 bridge pickup which i had moved into the middle position in 1982 was damaged by another "luthier" when he installed the DiMarzio and he cut the wires so short that the BL350 bridge pickup might be useless now. I'll find out in October if the pickup is still good.

I am wondering how crazy it would be to have the guitar wired like this:

With the push-button volume knob NOT activated, i would like position 1 on the 5-way toggle to activate the bridge pickup and the bottom tone knob control.
The other 4 positions would be like a Strat.

With the push-button activated, i would like:

1st position, the bottom tone knob controlling the bridge pickup.
2nd position, the top tone knob controlling the middle pickup and for the bottom tone knob to be controlling the bridge pickup.
3rd position, the top tone knob controls the middle pickup.
4th position, the top tone knob controls the neck pickup BUT the bottom tone knob will now control the middle pickup.
5th position, will be controlled by the top tone knob.

I would like to suggest installing another push-button knob on the bottom tone knob which will activate both the bridge and neck pickups, if wanted, and that push-button tone knob will activate the bridge and neck pickups no matter what.
Does that sound like a good idea?
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Thanks.
.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Take photos of all the original electronics and keep everything intact so you can go back to the original if you want to down the road...


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

player99 said:


> Take photos of all the original electronics and keep everything intact so you can go back to the original if you want to down the road...


NO, lol. The guitar was ruined when the first "luthier" ' ruined it when i asked him to modify it. 
I never got what i wanted done because he didn't do what i wanted in the end and i was too young to know better and speak up at the time. I just "settled" for it, and used peddles to get the tones i wanted. But now, only recently, i was kind of thinking of buying an UltraLux Strat but when i tried one, the neck didn't feel right in my hand. 
So, i decided to just modify this Blazer i've been using to finally get what i want. I might end up modifying it to be close to the UtraLux with locking tuners, stainless steel frets, but instead of a TUSQ nut, i might install an LSR roller nut. 
I was never satisfied with this guitar, to begin with. I didn't like the original 2-knobs. I wanted a Strat-like guitar but my budget didn't allow it. 
I tried to modify it but ended up not being satisfied with what i got back from the luthier.

"Why not just buy another guitar?"...many might ask? 
Well, why buy another when this one feels so right?! I can modify it and it will cost less than spending thousands on an "elite" guitar, in the end. 
I have a 71 Telecaster and an Ibanez RG series. Space is limited where i am and i have several acoustics
. 
The body is Japanese Sen wood (ash family) and has a rock maple neck. Ash wood is becoming rarer, nowadays, so i hear. I've read recently that "If you have an ash guitar, hang on to it because there will come a time when ash will no longer be used." Something about a parasite in ash trees making the wood hard to find.

I once tried my Blazer through a Marshall, and then tried my friend's Stratocaster in the Marshall. The Blazer was louder than the Strat was, using the same settings. I don't know which model he had nor where it was made but it sort of impressed me that my Ibanez pickups were louder than his red Strat's were.


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## hondamatic (Feb 5, 2019)

I’m an amateur here who’s done a couple of pickup swaps, so if anyone smarter comes on and disputes, please feel free…

I presume the dimarzio in your bridge is a humbucker?

A push button for coil split is no biggie. I usually have push pulls for this. I also believe it’s not hard to lengthen pickup leads, so long as the coil winds are intact. (If the winding is bad, this could be fixed by pickup specialist too.)

Switching or changing tone knobs depending on pickup selection and button/switch… I haven’t tried this, or seen it done. It hurts my brain to think about, but I’m not sure it’s impossible.

I wonder if it might be better to dedicate a tone pot to the dimarzio humbucker? It might work better with a different pot resistance value and capacitor value than the single coils.

A way to get the neck and bridge on together is to wire a switch (or button, or push-pull) to override the pickup selector and turn a specific pickup on (as well as what’s selected on the 5-way switch). This is very doable; I use this on my 3x single coil guitar (a Sen Ash Vantage Strat copy) to coax humbucker tones out of it.

I like the creativity but wonder how some of these options would sound in practice. I wonder if the luthier could wire up some of these options so you can hear how they sound before doing the mods.


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

hondamatic said:


> I presume the dimarzio in your bridge is a humbucker?


No, all the pickups are single coil.


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## hondamatic (Feb 5, 2019)

Ok, then the desire for the neck and bridge together makes more sense. (I use this setting often on my SSS Strat copy, to approach humbucker tone.)

I personally can’t figure a way to ‘move’ the position of pots by a switch. Someone smarter than me might be able to. I wired my bottom tone to bridge/mid, and top to neck.

Would an ‘out of phase’ switch for the middle pickup interest you? This is common and easy by a switch or push pull, and can add a good rhythm tone.

There’s also a lot of tweaking to be done by pot / cap values. If you have any preferences for tone (brighter / darker) be sure to note them to the luthier.


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

hondamatic said:


> I’m an amateur here who’s done a couple of pickup swaps, so if anyone smarter comes on and disputes, please feel free…
> 
> A push button for coil split is no biggie. I usually have push pulls for this. I also believe it’s not hard to lengthen pickup leads, so long as the coil winds are intact. (If the winding is bad, this could be fixed by pickup specialist too.)
> 
> ...


This luthier shop is like the top guy in Montreal. He (they) make their own guitars and pickups. I am pretty sure there is a way to do what i want. I don't care how many pushbuttons he has to install. I should be the one who decides on the job i want to be done, Right?
As it stands right now, the price estimate i got is for what HE suggested i do after i told him what i wanted (which is not what is written in my previous post, i just thought of that idea today).

Originally, back in 1982, i asked the "luthier" to add a second tone knob and to have it control the new, single coil DiMarzio bridge pickup i bought. I asked him to put the original bridge pickup in the middle and wire the two middles as a humbucker that i could use in conjunction with either the bridge and neck pickups in positions 2 and 4. But i wanted the in/out-of phase-switch that came with the Blazer not to be used as a phase-switch in positions 2 and 4 but asked him to make the switch split the humbucker into 2 separate, single coils in positions 2 and 4.

What he did was install the new pickup and tone control like i wanted but he only moved the old bridge pickup to the middle and didn't make it a humbucker. He left both the middle pickups as single coils (side by side), and still kept the in/out-of-phase switch as a phase-switch which changed the sound in positions 2 and 4 and the middle pickup closest to the bridge would work with the bridge pickup in position 2, The other middle pickup would work with the neck pickup in position 4. And the in/out-of-phase switch would do what it does when either up or down

In position 3, both the single coils worked at the same time - as single coils. And of course, position 5 was normal.
PLUS, when i went to pick up the guitar, he told me, as if it wasn't a problem, that he accidentally cut the wires "a bit too short" on the Ibanez pickup he moved to the middle. I told him, not to worry about it. I should have asked to see what he did on the spot but i felt intimidated.
I found out only 20 years later just how damned short he cut them. He left NOTHING to which wires could be soldered to the pickup. Ridiculous! He wasn't a luthier, he was a guitar store owner/salesman who said he could do the job. He screwed it all up and he did nothing i wanted.
He did what he wanted and then tried to sell me on his "work" to which i had one eyebrow raised the whole time he explained what great work he did.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Do I have to be the one to say it?

_PHOTOS!!!!_


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## hondamatic (Feb 5, 2019)

robbiedaug said:


> This luthier shop is like the top guy in Montreal. He (they) make their own guitars and pickups. I am pretty sure there is a way to do what i want. I don't care how many pushbuttons he has to install. I should be the one who decides on the job i want to be done, Right?
> As it stands right now, the price estimate i got is for what HE suggested i do after i told him what i wanted (which is not what is written in my previous post, i just thought of that idea today).
> 
> Originally, back in 1982, i asked the "luthier" to add a second tone knob and to have it control the new, single coil DiMarzio bridge pickup i bought. I asked him to put the original bridge pickup in the middle and wire the two middles as a humbucker that i could use in conjunction with either the bridge and neck pickups in positions 2 and 4. But i wanted the in/out-of phase-switch that came with the Blazer not to be used as a phase-switch in positions 2 and 4 but asked him to make the switch split the humbucker into 2 separate, single coils in positions 2 and 4.
> ...


This is definitely interesting, and I'd be curious to see how this turns out.

In my case, I'm the guy holding the soldering iron and trying to make sense of the wiring diagram (and fix it when something breaks), so this affects my creativity. And I'm not averse to keeping mine reasonably close to a strat layout.

I think it's cool that you're doing this to an old Ibanez Blazer that you've had since 1981. I liked the one I tried, and especially liked the neck carve.


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

2manyGuitars said:


> Do I have to be the one to say it?
> 
> _PHOTOS!!!!_


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

hondamatic said:


> This is definitely interesting, and I'd be curious to see how this turns out.
> 
> In my case, I'm the guy holding the soldering iron and trying to make sense of the wiring diagram (and fix it when something breaks), so this affects my creativity. And I'm not averse to keeping mine reasonably close to a strat layout.
> 
> I think it's cool that you're doing this to an old Ibanez Blazer that you've had since 1981. I liked the one I tried, and especially liked the neck carve.


The invoice i have states he ordered the Fender S-1™ Toggle Switch. In the shop, he told me that switch allows lots of different combinations.

I went online and found this:





How the S-1 Switch Gives You More Tonal Options


Learn about the new world of sound the S-1 switch can open up.



www.fender.com




Oddly enough, it doesn't mention the setup i want with the tone knob moving to the middle pickup in position 4.
It doesn't seem "right" to me that position 2 has two tone knobs, one for each pickup, but position4 only has one tone knob controlling 2 pickups.


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## hondamatic (Feb 5, 2019)

robbiedaug said:


> The invoice i have states he ordered the Fender S-1™ Toggle Switch. In the shop, he told me that switch allows lots of different combinations.
> 
> I went online and found this:
> 
> ...


Looking at the 'S-1' switch, it's basically four SPST switches in one button: Fender S-1 Switching Schemes – Stratocaster Design
(A normal 'push-pull' pot is two SPST switches in one - so basically twice as much.)

The guitar pics look different... is the 2nd one (with the paired single-coils in the middle, and the white single coil bridge pickup) how it currently is? 
Also, is the natural finish original?


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

hondamatic said:


> Looking at the 'S-1' switch, it's basically four SPST switches in one button: Fender S-1 Switching Schemes – Stratocaster Design
> (A normal 'push-pull' pot is two SPST switches in one - so basically twice as much.)
> 
> The guitar pics look different... is the 2nd one (with the paired single-coils in the middle, and the white single coil bridge pickup) how it currently is?
> Also, is the natural finish original?


Hi,
I asked the luthier what he was planning on doing and he sent me this diagram. It's easy to follow if you look at it long enough. He IS going to configure two tone controls (one for each pickup - hmm i think, i should clarify that) in position 4 with the S1 activated or not activated. That's cool. Oh, but i see i will only have ONE tone knob in position 2 for two pickups. 

I would like to have an option to have the bridge and the neck working together.
And to be honest, i don't really know the difference between "in series", "parallel" etc. I never learned about that in all these years. I just know i am not very fond of "in phase" where it makes the tone really thin.

In the photos:
The guitar on the left is an original Blazer (not mine).
The one on the right is mine, as i described it in my posts with the DiMarzio, and the original bridge moved to the middle position.
At one time, the little screws in the saddles were scratching my right hand, so i put some Scotch Tape over the saddle. And there are three carpenter screws replacing three pickup screws. THAT happened when i was looking inside my guitar as i was waiting for friends to pick me up for rehearsal, and they were taking forever to arrive.
When they finally arrived, late, they were honking the horn, and i had to rush to re-attach the pickguard to the guitar. In my panic, i lost the three proper screws and just grabbed three random screws that were laying around and forced them in. SInce then, i have never removed them. They function when i turn the screws. It's ugly, yea, but it's too late i think. The original screws will not fit, now. And THAT is how my Blazer looks today. The fretboard has a tiny bit of wear (from bending) in three spots between the nut and the 4th fret. The finish is original and it still looks quite good. I've never polished it since i've had it. 
It hasn't been used all that much compared to how old it is. But it is the "most played" of all my guitars. It's been a living room guitar for years and many other years in been sitting in its case and only was played on occasion. It has been my main guitar and will probably stay that way.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

robbiedaug said:


> I would like to suggest installing another push-button knob on the bottom tone knob which will activate both the bridge and neck pickups, if wanted, and that push-button tone knob will activate the bridge and neck pickups no matter what.
> Does that sound like a good idea?
> Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.


You are asking a lot of a circuit that offers a lot of tonal options already- 3 pickups, two tones, master volume. I've used 6 way switches, push pulls, super switches, Schaller switches, s1, dual bank 5 way switches- 10 options- and always come back to a 5 way with blend pot or 5 way with the Gilmour mod to add the neck to the bridge. With two tone controls I like one dedicated to the bridge and the other for neck and middle. What you are after for various tone control options is confusing and seems to only be a desire because of a theoretical sound you think you can get. You can likely already get it if you take the time to find it.
My opinion on that type of complicated setup is that the more shit you do to it, the worse it performs. The only interesting and maybe useful sound is combining pickups into series configuration but then you have to adjust for massive volume differences. I find that almost all of the additional mod options to the classic strat configuration become quite undefined in real world playing conditions- apart from the bridge/neck option which I find useful.
You will pay a pile of money and end using it like a standard strat. KISS- keep it simple....


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## hondamatic (Feb 5, 2019)

zztomato said:


> You are asking a lot of a circuit that offers a lot of tonal options already- 3 pickups, two tones, master volume. I've used 6 way switches, push pulls, super switches, Schaller switches, s1, dual bank 5 way switches- 10 options- and always come back to a 5 way with blend pot or 5 way with the Gilmour mod to add the neck to the bridge. With two tone controls I like one dedicated to the bridge and the other for neck and middle. What you are after for various tone control options is confusing and seems to only be a desire because of a theoretical sound you think you can get. You can likely already get it if you take the time to find it.
> My opinion on that type of complicated setup is that the more shit you do to it, the worse it performs. The only interesting and maybe useful sound is combining pickups into series configuration but then you have to adjust for massive volume differences. I find that almost all of the additional mod options to the classic strat configuration become quite undefined in real world playing conditions- apart from the bridge/neck option which I find useful.
> You will pay a pile of money and end using it like a standard strat. KISS- keep it simple....


I came to the same conclusion with mine, so it has a standard 5-way plus the 'glimour mod' (switch-on neck pickup). Often I forget which position that said switch is in 

The switch was originally for an out-of-phase mod for the neck pickup, but my neck pickup was 2-wire (a 3rd separate ground wire is needed). I think the out of phase sound is cool, but I'm getting by without.


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

You're probably right. I just want MORE than i need (in case i find i use for it).

I do not really have a lot of experience with other guitars, i have mine that i've been using and my Ibanez offers me the best "feel" - it's a new sound i'm after and i don't really know what is available nor how different configurations sound. So this mod is going to be a real learning experience.

I notice on the diagram for the 50th Anniversary Strat that there is no second tone knob for position 2. 
From what i have seen on the Strats i have tried is that position 4 has one tone knob, and position 2 has two tone knobs.
Would it be possible to add a tone knob for position 2 in that 50th Anniversary setup? 

Thanks


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

robbiedaug said:


> Would it be possible to add a tone knob for position 2 in that 50th Anniversary setup?


Why do you want two tone knobs for one position?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Something to think about. Most Strats only have 1 shared cap for the neck and middle position. You can add a cap for the bridge and you don't need a push pull for that if wired properly. The strat 5 way switch is very versatile and many things can be done with it. Part of why it only has 1 tone knob. The design does not require one per pickup like a les Paul does..

1 push pull can get you 7 combinations of pickups.


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## hondamatic (Feb 5, 2019)

robbiedaug said:


> You're probably right. I just want MORE than i need (in case i find i use for it).
> 
> I do not really have a lot of experience with other guitars, i have mine that i've been using and my Ibanez offers me the best "feel" - it's a new sound i'm after and i don't really know what is available nor how different configurations sound. So this mod is going to be a real learning experience.
> 
> ...


A stacked tone knob might be an option, but most I see are 250 / 500. (250 is optimal for most single coils?)

An example: CTS - A250K/A500K Stacked Concentric Pot

The play here would be to combine two pickups to the split pot, and the other to a dedicated tone pot.

I get by with my two tone pots just fine 🤘

If the quest is to find new tones, maybe it’s time to try different pickups? From experience, this is a fun, exciting rabbit hole to go down…


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

hondamatic said:


> combine two pickups to the split pot


There's enough singles already. Consider going series/parallel instead?


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

Well, the Strat does have two, tone knobs for two pickups in position 4 on the 50th Anniversary. 
Many "regular" Strats i see have two, tone knobs for position 2. 

I would like to have the two, tone knobs in both positions 2 AND 4.
Is there a wiring issue stopping that from happening? I've always wondered why a Strat had two, tone knobs in position 2 but only one in position 4, THEN, i see the 50th Anniversary Strat and i notice that pos 4 has the two, tone knobs and pos 2 has only one.


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

This is how the inside looks now. You see the pup with the cut wires? Does that look repairable?

You know, i am thinking of buying a humbucker that can be split for the middle position, instead of messing around with what i have.


Thanks very much for commenting.
Robbie


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

The guitar is in the shop and the invoice is pretty HIGH up there. Yikes! My mods are going to cost me. 
I am having a complete refret done with stainless steel frets for $500.00

I am wondering what is normally included in a complete stainless refret job. 
Do luthiers normally add a pack of strings (if THEY insist on new strings)? 
Do they charge a labor fee to do a general (intonation, action, truss rod, etc) setup after the refret is done?

What normally happened when any of you got a complete SS refret done?...were you charged a general setup fee, as well? 

Thanks


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

robbiedaug said:


> I am wondering what is normally included in a complete stainless refret job.


When I do one it includes all of the setup work. I don't include strings. A nut is also extra but I am usually able to tell the customer ahead of time if it will be needed. 
You should ask the shop where you are having the work done what is included for your $500. I don't like surprises.


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

zztomato said:


> You should ask the shop where you are having the work done what is included for your $500. I don't like surprises.


Okay, thanks. 
What i think is happening in this case, is this: 
Three invoices were made so far. One was made when i first went to see him and asked for some mods - this is before i decided on SS frets. So, on the first invoice, he included a setup fee (because the neck needs it).

Then when we did a second invoice, he added some extra parts i wanted, and that's when i asked him about refretting the neck. He sort of talked me out of getting SS frets saying that if they need work later, they are more expensive to "fix". 
So, i decided on nickel frets at $170.00 in spite of all the good things i had heard in YouTube demos and had read about on the net about SS frets. (I still wanted them.) 
But what i think happened is he left the setup fee on the invoice - i hope that was a mistake on his part.

Then we did a third invoice including the SS fret job i initially wanted, and still, that setup fee was there on the third invoice. So, maybe he simply forgot to remove it. 
I caught a couple of errors on the invoice so far, one is where he actually marked only two S1 knobs, when we decided i would need three S1 knobs. 
Also, there is a resistor not on the invoice for the partial split humbucker which i asked him for. 
So, there are a few errors that i am finding that he is overlooking including this setup fee. 
Maybe the setup fee is just one more error. I will ask him about it. 

On the invoice, it mentions a thin finish on the neck after the refret, and then, below that, as another entry, it says the setup fee. Maybe he's hoping i don't catch it?! It makes me wonder, a bit, as to what else he is not catching (at my expense lol). 


Thanks.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Always best to just ask him to explain the invoice. Expecting the worst from people generally delivers it.


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## elburnando (11 mo ago)

Would it not have been easier and cheaper to just build a partscaster?


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

The invoice really spiked high when i bought three of his hand-wound pickups, 2 single coils at $135.00 each and one $200.00 splitting HB, the three S1 knobs at 50.00 each (which sell for $35.00 online), the new toggle switch, the SS refret, plus all the electrical modifications i am asking for.

I am also a little confused as to why there is a $170.00 fee to do a complete electrical setup for my s-h-s-and then two hours at $85.00 each hour, so another $170.00 of labor, to do all the tonal mods (soldering connections) i wanted.

He mentions on the invoice that all the mods i want will require two extra hours of labor to solder. But shouldn't that be included in the complete electrical setup for $170.00 listed on the invoice?
I am being charged $170 for a "complete electrical setup" plus another $170.00 to "setup my various tonal modifications"?
So, that's $340.00 alone just to remove all the insides of my guitar and install three new knobs and install his hand-wound pickups, and wire up my tones?

Plus, he mentioned another hour at $85.00 just to modify the tops of two of the S1 knobs so that they say "T" or "tone" instead of "volume" because two S1 knobs will be used as my tone knobs.
He suggests cutting off the top of two normal, tone knobs, sanding them down, and then gluing them to the tops of the S1 knobs. It sounds like a pretty good idea that i could do myself, actually.

The invoice is up to $2035.00 so far.
I am going to cancel his suggestion for the tone knobs, do it myself, and ask if the setup fee after a refret is an error.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This 1982 Ibanez Blazer BL350 (which i've owned since 1982) is going to be badass once it's all done.
I am going to get some signature decals made with my signature and another one that says 40th Anniversary because this is my gift to myself.
A few months ago, i was going to sell all of my gear because of severe carpal tunnel syndrome that has plagued me for about three years. I would look at my guitars and almost start crying because i couldn't hold my pick and couldn't even hold a barre chord down because of constant, painful numbness. 
I went to see an osteopath and found several nerve flossing exercises online (from other osteopaths) and it got my hands back from about 30% sensation in my fingertips to what i have now which feels like 98% sensation in my fingertips. So, I AM BACK!!!
Instead of selling my gear, i am celebrating my recovery by modifying my Ibanez BIG TIME.
A new Stratocaster sounds like a good idea, but then, i'll have another guitar to find storage place for.
My Blazer has an ash body (ash will become rare in a few years) and it has a maple neck. Other than the shape of the headstock and the Ibanez logo on it, this can be like a Stratocaster. It'll no longer sound like a Blazer, that's for sure. 
It's going to be "like" a Fender Strat, somewhat, only camouflaged in an Ibanez body and neck.
Maybe it won't look like a guitar worth stealing standing beside a Les Paul and a Stratocaster. A thief might take the more familiar Strat and Gibson logos and just leave the Ibanez there thinking it's not much of a guitar.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks for the comments


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

elburnando said:


> Would it not have been easier and cheaper to just build a partscaster?


This is like a Partscaster, isn't it?
All the knobs and switches will be Fender, the pups are hand-wound by the luthier, ash body, maple neck, SS frets.
Why buy another neck and body to modify and have ANOTHER guitar hanging around in my small apartment?
My Blazer was modified back in '82 as soon as i bought it, so the original vintage value was diminished long ago.
Why not just modify the guitar i play the most? I was never really satisfied with the sound i got from the mods i made in 1982. It's time to give it a lobotomy.

Besides, the tonal mods i want require that i spend some MONEY to get what i want. it might still cost the same, the only difference is, i don't have to shop for, and buy, a neck and a body. I already have them. 

Thanks for the comment.


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

zztomato said:


> Why do you want two tone knobs for one position?


One position can have two pups. I've always thought (probably in error) that each pup should have its own tone knob.
I thought having two, tone knobs would give me more tonal control when using two pups at the same time. I really don't know how pups are wired that much, to be honest. I assumed, not knowing how things really work.
I am learning more and more about all of this since i decided to modify it.

I never ever thought about configuring a pickguard before lo. Now i am learning about resistors and capacitors, and to be quite frank, i am scratching my head a lot trying to understand something, ANYTHING, about what i am reading.

On another note: 
I blindly bought three pups from this luthier without even hearing how they sound. I am relying on his expertise.
They will sound different in my guitar anyway, i think, "so, why even try them out in a different guitar?", is my mindset. 
I'll see how it all sounds when i play it through my amp.

Thanks


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

robbiedaug said:


> The invoice is up to $2035.00 so far.


WTF!!!!??????
I wish I had a lot of customers like you. 😆
I don't understand the charges at all. I understand you bought some pickups and have a lot of mods to wiring but, holy shit, that's a crazy amount for the work performed. 
I upcharge about 50 bucks for SS. If you have a maple board, maybe it needs finishing, maybe not. I can usually do it without. Your Blazer will have a poly finish and I can't recall if those old Ibanez guitars had the finish applied after the frets went in. If the frets went in on a already finished neck, you may not need to finish the board post refret.


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

zztomato said:


> WTF!!!!??????
> I wish I had a lot of customers like you. 😆
> I don't understand the charges at all. I understand you bought some pickups and have a lot of mods to wiring but, holy shit, that's a crazy amount for the work performed.
> I upcharge about 50 bucks for SS. If you have a maple board, maybe it needs finishing, maybe not. I can usually do it without. Your Blazer will have a poly finish and I can't recall if those old Ibanez guitars had the finish applied after the frets went in. If the frets went in on a already finished neck, you may not need to finish the board post refret.


I don't know anything about that really. He said the neck will be refinished as it's included in the refret.

HIgh price??!! Hmm okay, now you are scaring me lol.
Here is the invoice. What do you think of all this?
It's got some French in there but it's simple stuff, you can figure it out.

I am wondering about the 1x ELECFULL for $170.00 and the 2x LABOUR also for $170.00.
He refers to the 2x LABOUR schematics in the 1x ELECFULL section.

"Main d'Oeuvre" means, "Done/drawn by hand", i think - not sure but i think it refers to the diagram i got in my email from him.
If not that, then maybe it means he drew out an actual schematic of what's under the pickguard.
I asked for "a diagram" for the tone and switch controls he sent to me which i got but i don't see a "schematic" showing circuits etc under the pickguard .

I don't think he mentions a tone blender function in that diagram. I am not exactly sure if that was decided on, or if i mentioned it and he didn't catch that. I should find out about that.

BASICALLY what will be done:
To achieve what i had originally wanted with 2 mini pushbuttons, he suggested (and i agreed) to use three S1 switches instead.
One will be the volume and will activate the S1 functions.
The tone 1 knob (now a S1 switch) will split/unsplit the humbucker,
The tone 2 knob (now a S1 switch) will deactivate the function of the S1 and allow bridge and neck to work alone.
I am going to have 5 different "setups" (a Strat and Tele offers one "setup" each, for example).

However, he didn't include the resistor, on the invoice, that i asked for to be used for the partial split of the humbucker. That is like $8.00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1x ELECFULL .....................................................................................$170.00 
Montage Électronique Complet Pour Guitare Electrique
-SHS configuration
-See attached notes for schematics (Custom)
*Assign T1 to neck at start so that we will have a tone control
on Tele mode
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1x LABOUR........................................................... ..............................$85.00
Main d'Oeuvre
-Modify 2X S-1 Caps for "Tone" inscription:
-Cut "Tone" area on regular tone pots
-Sand thin & glue on S-1 cap
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2x LABOUR....(2 x $85.00 p/h).. ........................................................$170.00
Main d'Oeuvre
-Custom schematics fee
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1x Refret Complete ( Stainless frets)..................................................$525.00
Frets are un-even (worn), flat & gauged. Not enough material
left for fret dress. Would need full refret for better results.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADJUST
1x Ajustement Général........................................................................ $85.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0991365000
1x Fender Stratocaster Black Control Knobs......................................$10.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0061256049
3x Fender Switch/Pot Assembly S-1 250K .Split Shaft...(3 x $50.).... $150.00
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0059267029
3x Fender Stratocaster S-1 Switch Knob/Cap Assembly - Black
(each).....(3 x $20.00......................................................................... $60.00
****NOTE THAT S-1 SWITCH KNOBS ARE ONLY MARKED
AS "VOLUME" NOT "TONE".
*Can alter. see above in 1x LABOUR.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1x Orange Drop Caps, .022uF............................................................. $8.00
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0992251000
1x Fender Super 5-Way Switch.............................................................$30.00
*****DON'T INSTALL A KNOB ON 5-WAY....USE SHRINK
WRAP WITH GLUE***
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PTT1
1x Pure Tone Full Contact Output Jack, Mono......................................$10.00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1x Ernie Ball Hybrid Slinky Electric Strings.............................................$8.00
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1x Custom-made overwound bridge pickup.......................................$135.00
1x Custom-made neck pickup ...........................................................$135.00

1x Handwound 1955-62 era spec Humbucker pickup.......................$200.00

AlNiCo 5 Bar Magnets (noth to slug)
BUTYRATE BLACK Bobbins
50s/60s Style Single Plain Enamel #42 Magnet Wire
Hand Wound to Vintage Specs with a Medium-light Scatter
Approx 8K Ohms (+/- 3% @ 68 Degrees F)
Short Leg Frame 50mm
4 conductor wire
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total including Quebec sales taxes: $2047.00
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

For that price man, you could just fly old @zztomato to you with his tools and home again. I would recommend that.


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

Mark Brown said:


> For that price man, you could just fly old @zztomato to you with his tools and home again. I would recommend that.


I asked my luthier how much a water slide decal would cost with my signature on it and he said $150.00.
Yikes, i went to a print shop that makes vinyl decals for trucks etc and they told me i could have a dozen for about $135.00.
And online, waterslide decals cost as low as 8 bucks. So, why it's $150.00 for one signature decal is beyond me.
I will cancel that.

I will also cancel the tone control conversion of the knobs for $85.00. Seems a little too extravagant for such a little detail.

And i have to ask about the $85.00 general adjustment fee AFTER a $525.00 SS refret.

Does it seem overpriced for what i am getting, otherwise? You see all the prices.
He's not some schmuck wannabee. He is a very well-reputed luthier.
He seems to have some nice, custom-made pups.
Parts are parts and some of his parts do cost a little more than what's available online.
I guess he has to make a profit, right? Can't blame him too much for that, can we?
But the labor costs are getting to me, though lol.
It feels like i just brought my guitar to the dentist without any medical insurance to cover the fees.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

damn, I could make you a 7 way stratocaster harness for less than 150 with dual caps


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

knight_yyz said:


> damn, I could make you a 7 way stratocaster harness for less than 150 with dual caps


I am quite certain a lot of people can do this for less money. But i went to a professional to have a lot done at one time and to have it all done right.
He is authorized by Fender, Gibson and several other major companies to work on their guitars. There are plaques all over the shop's walls showing this.
I checked his reviews and they almost glow in the dark they are so positive.

Maybe what i could/should have done is to find out what he is going to use and then buy all the parts on my own, and THEN go see him to do what i want done. But he might feel taken advantage of if i pull a stunt like that now - like i am sneaky and undercutting his profits, you know what i mean? I can't do that at this point in our dealings, i would feel horrible lol.
And he might look at me differently, in a bad way.
OR, maybe he expects me to do just that to save some money, who knows!

I can't do that now. Next time, i will know better what to expect and how to handle it a bit differently. I had no idea HOW to get what i wanted done. He helped me figure it out. And it's going to cost money to have it done right.

Remember:

_“If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.”_ – Chinese Proverb
_“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional, wait until you hire an amateur.”_ – Red Adair
Thanks for the comment.


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## elburnando (11 mo ago)

robbiedaug said:


> This is like a Partscaster, isn't it?
> All the knobs and switches will be Fender, the pups are hand-wound by the luthier, ash body, maple neck, SS frets.
> Why buy another neck and body to modify and have ANOTHER guitar hanging around in my small apartment?
> My Blazer was modified back in '82 as soon as i bought it, so the original vintage value was diminished long ago.
> ...


Sorry, I didnt mean to sound like a smartass(for once). I just meant it would probably be easier to just start from scratch with a kit, rather than have a tech undo the factory stuff, and then reinstall new stuff. I love the 80s Ibanez stuff though, so i get it. Either way I'd love to see it finished.


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

knight_yyz said:


> damn, I could make you a 7 way stratocaster harness for less than 150 with dual caps


I am quite certain a lot of people can do this for less money. But i went to a professional to have a lot done at one time and to have it all done right.
He is authorized by Fender, Gibson and several other major companies to work on their guitars. There are plaques all over the shop's walls showing this.
I checked his reviews and they almost glow in the dark.

Maybe what i could/should have done is to find out what he is going to use and then buy all the parts on my own, and THEN go see him to do what i want done. But he might feel taken advantage of that way - like i am sneaky and undercutting his profits, you know what i mean? I can't do that at this point in our dealings, i would feel horrible lol.

And he might look at me differently, in a bad way. OR, maybe he expects me to do just that to save some money, who knows!
I can't do that now. Next time, i will know better what to expect and handle it differently.

Remember:

_“If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.”_ – Chinese Proverb
_“If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional, wait until you hire an amateur.”_ – Red Adair


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

elburnando said:


> Sorry, I didnt mean to sound like a smartass(for once). I just meant it would probably be easier to just start from scratch with a kit, rather than have a tech undo the factory stuff, and then reinstall new stuff. I love the 80s Ibanez stuff though, so i get it. Either way I'd love to see it finished.


I was not offended, at all. I'm sorry if i came off like that.
The guitar is a mess how it is now since 1982 when it first got botched up by a lousy guitar store owner/salesman who thought he was quite the luthier. 
I literally grunt and roll my eyes whenever i play it.
I'll post pics when it's all done, don't worry.

Thanks


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

Wow, the ss refret will cost $525.00 + $85.00 for a general adjustment for the neck after the refret + $8.00 for new strings.

I asked the luthier how loud my original pups are.
He sent me this:

"Your actual pickups DC resistances are the following:

Neck: 7.4 K (original Ibanez single-coil neck pup)

Middle: 7.6K (15.2K in humbucker mode)
(Note: My original middle and Ibanez single-coil pups were wired as a HB when the broken pup actually worked.
I don't think he was able to get a reading on the broken bridge pup, though, so maybe the "15.2K in HB mode" is an estimation).

Bridge: 8.7K DiMarzio single-coil bridge pup."

I've decided to use an S1-push switch wired to be a partial-split blender pot for the HB.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The new, hand-wound pups he wants to sell me to replace all the original pups are as follows:

"Neck: 6K single-coil

Mid: 8.8K HB with an S1-switch (partial-split-on/off and blender pot).

Bridge: 6.5K single-coil"

Then he added this:
"First important note: *DC resistance is in no way an indicator of sound quality. These pickups have a very strong DC resistance compared to standard.*

Trying to match these would probably give the result of a strong output but with compromised quality (loss of some high frequencies...un-balanced).

Second, your original mid-humbucker is composed of two, full-sized, Ibanez, single-coil pups. It's not a standard humbucker (which would have smaller bobbins). I would not attempt building a humbucker with such resistance".
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When i went to see him and we talked about changing the pups, especially the 8.7K DiMarzio bridge pup because i told him when i solo with it, i can barely hear the notes i'm playing. It's like i want it to scream but i struggle to hear it, instead. It seems not loud enough, he wrote (above), "....compromised quality (loss of some high frequencies...un-balanced)."

Is that why i can't hear the 8.7K bridge pup very well when i solo with it?
Do others agree with the luthier that a 6.5K "overwound" bridge pup will be "better"/more-beefier than the 8.7K DiMarzio for more loudness?

Also, my DiMarzio single-coil bridge pup is 8.7 K and his hand-wound middle HB pup is rated at 8.8K. My single-coil is as LOUD and that HB?

Any comments on that?
Thanks


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

Any comments?

Monkeys....


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

tonewoody said:


> Any comments?
> 
> Monkeys....


Well, i paid peanuts once and the guy (or should i say, the monkey) clipped the wires too short on a stock pup (now unusable), he didn't do what i wanted really, and then, to justify how he didn't do what i wanted, he tried convincing me what a great sound it had after he worked on it.

Instead of explaining that what i wanted wasn't possible with the pups i was using, he rewired it to his liking without consulting me. This brings us to the second quote, where i paid an amateur and now i have to pay more to a professional luthier to finally get what i wanted back then.

If i allow some "guy', with no reputation to worry about, to work on my guitar and he screws it up or i don't get what i wanted, he's not about to lose more of his time to redo it all for peanuts. And if he's not all that good in the first place, why would i want to pay the "monkey" more "peanuts"? That's how i see it.


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## robbiedaug (4 mo ago)

I met a guy once in my area. I bought some tripods from him on craigslist. We met and i saw he was a luthier. He had all sorts of homemade guitars. We started talking about my old 71 Telecaster and he mentioned that he could work on it.
He said i should come by, leave it there, and let him work on it. Red flags were going up everywhere in my head because this guy looked quite well off, big house, nice cars, LOTS of guitars.
My gut instinct kept telling me, "If you leave your guitar here, you'll never see it again. You'll come back and the wife could say they broke up and she kicked him out, or he had an accident and he's in a coma and she doesn't know which guitar is mine or she's too distraught to worry about some guitar when her hubby is in a coma". You know? 

The guy looked as though was savvy enough legally that he could try to tell me that he was going to keep the guitar, and if i called the cops, it'll be his word against mine - he could say to the cops that i am a scammer he's met recently and i am swindling him to get a guitar. LOL then he could move the guitar to another location, and it's all done - no more proof that he has the guitar, and the case goes in the back of the file at the cop station. And then i have to try to go to court to prove that this guy has my guitar lol. I don't want to have to deal with lawyers just because i wanted to save some money on some guitar work. Why risk the chances that any of that could remotely happen?

I know a guy (who was in his 50s at the time) who took his old '57 hollow-body Gibson to some joker guitar shop owner to have some work done. There was some sort of miscommunication somehow and it turned out the client couldn't afford to pay for all the work that was done. From what i had heard, the "luthier" did TOO MUCH work without asking the client and then tried to charge the client. After some time, i saw the client playing some cheapo, red Jay Turser SG copy. He never got his Gibson back and he never wanted to discuss it any further.
He paid peanuts and the monkey wanted more and more. IT seems the monkey got to keep the Gibson while the client tried to earn the money by busking to pay off the unasked-for, high debt. The client died a few years later (which was about three years ago from now). He never got his guitar back. The store closed down and the owner (or should i say, the monkey) is long gone - with the Gibson.


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