# Tube chart...for sound comparison



## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

i saw this on TGP and thought people here may be interested...it seems pretty cool

anyone have any comments on what the guy says? (other than spelling?)


http://www.tube-town.net/info/doc/tt-tubemap.pdf


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

ezcomes said:


> i saw this on TGP and thought people here may be interested...it seems pretty cool
> 
> anyone have any comments on what the guy says? (other than spelling?)
> 
> ...


Seems kinda interesting, but they seem to be recommending a lot of JJ tubes (which aren't all that bad), as well their own label of tubes. Since I doubt they manufacture their own tubes, these are probably relabeled tubes, maybe even JJ's???

I'd find something like this super-handy if it came from an 3rd party with no interest in actually selling tubes.


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## amphead (Jan 9, 2007)

Makes no sense to me at all. If I interpret the intent of this 'guide' correctly and I owned a Fender Twin I would expect it to produce what they describe as 'heavy' tone if I used Sovtek 6L6s and TT12AX7s. I don't have to point out that - it ain't gonna happen.

Conversely, if I owned a Krank Krankenstein and used TT12AX7s (same tube recommendation in the first position as the 'heavy' sound - contradicting oneself perhaps??!), GE5751s in the second position and EH EL34s it is NOT going to suddenly behave like a 'soft/smooth' amp.

Their assertion that you should not pay much attention to the power amp section of the amp because "most modern Guitar-amps "make" their sound in the preamp section" is true - for those amps specifically designed that way.

Simply put, using different tubes can change the tonal characteristics of your amp, but it will not cause it to be something it's not. Taking the preamp tubes out of your Twin and putting them into your Plexi will not make your Marshall sound like a Fender.

The amp's design is the primary determinant of the sound it produces - regardless of the brand of tubes used. Period.

This 'guide' is a prime candidate for generating yet more Internet myth surrounding tube guitar amps.

Don Mackrill
www.Mackamps.com


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## Jared Purdy (Dec 2, 2010)

check out the tubestore.com They are based in Hamilton, and while they don't have a chart per se, there is a lot of useful inof in terms of picking the right tube compliment for your amp.


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## amphead (Jan 9, 2007)

+1 re: The Tube Store info. The reviews and information on this site are first class. John Templeton, one of the reviewers, is a very experienced tech and amp builder and really knows what he is talking about when it comes to tubes and their response in different amps. Great place to buy tubes too!

Don Mackrill
Budget Boutique | Tube Guitar Amps | Mack Amps


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

IT'S ALL CRAP!

Now, I'll tell you what I really think!9kkhhd

This whole idea of different brands of tubes having different tone has absolutely no basis in science. What's more, somehow the people who push this idea the most never let their ears be tested in a real scientific test. It's like an astrologer who makes predictions every New Years. Nobody ever checks LAST year's predictions!

There is no sound inside a tube! Actually, there's no sound inside your amp at all, until the speaker moves some air. There is only electricity, which is the flow of electrons. I haven't met anyone yet who can pick up electron flow with their ears!

There are no rosewood, maple or ebony woods inside a tube to give a different sonic "flavour". Only wires formed into plates or grids that we put voltages on to charge them, in order to make electron flow happen and to control it.

Some players have tried to tell me that they have conducted their own tests. So far, when I asked them how they did it they ALL tell me "I just plugged in different tubes!" That is NOT a scientific test!

I have talked to so-called experts who sell tubes on the internet about their claims. So far, when I probe a little deeper, NONE of them really know anything about electronics!

It's all just mojo, but like all mojo there is a tiny bit of truth that has been stretched all out of proportion. Here's the straight scoop!

The only difference between different brands of the same tube today is that often they are not made as close to the original data book specs as they could be. In the Golden Years if you made a 12AX7 it had better meet those data book specs exactly or no one would buy from you! Nowadays, things are a lot slacker.

This means that some Chinese 12AX7s might have a little bit less gain than some of the Sovteks, or whatever. That's what you might hear when you change the tube. A slight tweak to the volume control will do the same thing. 

A tube cannot tell the difference between a bass signal or a treble one. A 12AX7 will amplify clear up to 50 mhz or more! That's 50 million cycles per second! The idea that it will handle an A 440 cycles differently than a treble note is just plain silly!

A tube also cannot tell the difference between an audio signal, a radio or tv signal or a control voltage for a motor. It's all the same, just electrons flowing from one point to another.

Certain tube numbers have different gain factors than others. A 12AT7 has a bit less gain than a 12AX7 and a 12AY7 a lot less. Changing these tubes will cause a change in tone, simply because less gain affects headroom and breakup. The difference between a 12AT7 and a 12AX7 is really mice nuts but a 12AY7 will make a noticeable change. Again, the difference is in overall tone and will not suddenly add "magical, chimey mids".

There ARE differences in overall quality with some of the brands! By quality I mean tube life and probability of noise problems. Here in my shop I stick to EH and JJ brands. They give good quality for their price.

I know there are still people who will continue to believe the mojo. Lots of people believe in astrology as well. However, asking me to believe is asking me to believe that all of physics is a lie! That makes no sense to me at all. All I ask is that when these folks are getting ready to shell out $100 for a NOS 12AX7, or getting some list that puts different brands in every different position in many different amps, they think before they get ripped off! Even if the prices are competitive it's dishonest marketing. They are lying to you to make you have confidence in them!


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

I'm glad someone else wrote it ... the chart is ____ola 
sovtek el84's are crud and can't hold up in many amps 
among one of the many issues I have with that chart

the tubestore is where its at

p


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

I couldn't agree more Bill....+++1



Wild Bill said:


> IT'S ALL CRAP!
> 
> Now, I'll tell you what I really think!9kkhhd
> 
> ...


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## Furtz (Nov 27, 2010)

I tend to agree with Wild Bill. I also have to wonder about the "magic mojo" possessed by certain brands of signal capacitors. A cap is "two metal plates separated by an insulator". If they are in spec and not leaking DC, they should all produce the same results.
Electrolytics may have different issues regarding quality of construction and expected life.


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## Chris Church (Oct 24, 2011)

That statement is absurd. And not based in reality, Anyone that cant tell this difference between tubes and manufactures needs to get your hearing checked. And there is signal REAL audio signal in your amp, If they did not make a difference there should be no difference between a vox ac 30 and a deluxe reverb lol.. But there is. Different tubes from different companies do sound different and only techs that insist on using the cheapest tubes available so they can make more profit would be the only ones to say otherwise.


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

parkhead said:


> I'm glad someone else wrote it ... the chart is ____ola
> sovtek el84's are crud and can't hold up in many amps
> among one of the many issues I have with that chart
> 
> ...


Wow I must have been in a Grumpy mood 

some tubes do sound different due to their different gain characteristics 

some chinese pre amp tubes sound thin to my ear ...

but for the most part I still agree with wild bill & the #1 consideration is reliability

P


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

I disagree with all of you! I have a set of Cherry Cola EL84s in my amp and they taste great!


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

When I build amps, I a-b caps and tubes all the time when I'm tweaking, more so caps. If you can't hear the difference between a Solens and an M-150, hmmm, your ears would have to be worse than my old beaters. I do like the Cherry Cola EL84's but my favourites are the Kinkless Tetrodes.


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## ampaholic (Sep 19, 2006)

Wild Bill said:


> This whole idea of different brands of tubes having different tone has absolutely no basis in science. What's more, somehow the people who push this idea the most never let their ears be tested in a real scientific test.


Huh?

http://thetubestore.com/6l6costello.html


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## Mike_LA (Oct 9, 2011)

Wild Bill said:


> IT'S ALL CRAP!
> 
> There is no sound inside a tube!


*I beg to differ, as electrons pass thru the tube their reaction to the various tube parts have an impact on the sound. 

My Ac4 sounded MUCH different when I changed from cheap china tubes to TAD tubes.*


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