# High E slipping off fretboard



## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

Just picked up a Mexican Tele, and having issues with the high E slipping off the fretboard. I have very little experience with this, and wondering given the below photo, it is because of the way the bone nut is slotted.
Thanks for any suggestions!


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Likely need to recut the nut. You could loosen the neck screws a quarter turn and push the neck towards the bass side and then re- tighten the screws- that may do the trick. But definitely the nut is poorly cut.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Yup. That nut looks a little whacky. I just had a look at mine and the centreline distance from the 1st and 6th strings to the edge of the nut are equal.


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

Is this a new one? Looks reasonable (but could be better) at the nut but gets close to the cliff edge as you go up the neck. I've seen this more than a few times with bolt-on necks.
Try a neck realignment first -- loosen the strings, then loosen the 4 neck attachment screws just enough so there's a bit of play and then _gently_ try to push/move the neck towards the bass string side, then retighten the screws. Hopefully that will give you a better string alignment along the entire neck margin.


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

It is a new guitar. Well road worn, but new. I saw the disproportionate cut on the nut. Thanks guys, much appreciated.


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

If it is the nut, these are a PIA to remove as Fender really lays on the poly along the sides that covers the base and lower sides of the nut. You'll need to _carefully_ score through that poly layer first with a razor blade or Exacto knife and remove the bit that covers the nut sides, and hopefully avoid any larger chips that are prone to detach when tapping out the nut!
Good luck!!


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

DavidP said:


> If it is the nut, these are a PIA to remove as Fender really lays on the poly along the sides that covers the base and lower sides of the nut. You'll need to _carefully_ score through that ploy layer first with a razor blade or Exacto knife and remove the bit that covers the nut sides, and hopefully avoid any larger chips that are prone to detach when tapping out the nut!
> Good luck!!


Lovely….thanks for the advice.


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

Is this the reason why Gibson uses nibs?


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

DavidP said:


> Is this a new one? Looks reasonable (but could be better) at the nut but gets close to the cliff edge as you go up the neck. I've seen this more than a few times with bolt-on necks.
> Try a neck realignment first -- loosen the strings, then loosen the 4 neck attachment screws just enough so there's a bit of play and then _gently_ try to push/move the neck towards the bass string side, then retighten the screws. Hopefully that will give you a better string alignment along the entire neck margin.


Thanks for that suggestion. I will give this a try first before messing with the nut. Much appreciated!


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

It’s always a good starting point to look at the dots in relation to the strings.

This would be my exact process:
1. Loosen strings enough that they are still wound, but not tight. Loosen neck bolts just enough that you can wiggle the neck a bit.

Now GENTLY, hold The right horn (facing the guitar) with your right hand, and then grab the top of the neck with your left and pull it snug towards you. Get someone else to right then snug (not super tight ever). Or you can tighten them just barely snug and do the same thing and then apply a bit more tightening. The idea is that you want the middle dots to be in the middle of the middle two strings.

IF THAT DOESNT WORK

2. The bridge width might be the old school wider version. Tighten strings and try to pull them so that they are lined up with the dots on your board. Or you can get the bridge with less width.

3. could be the nut. It looks like the nut. But that’s because I can’t see the bridge and nobody can tell if the next needs to be pulled center Either.

IF it is the nut.. you can loosen strings, carefully take a flat head and a mallet and gently tap the nut to the left. This will solve the issue. You will have a piece of the low E side nut hanging off the board. Place tape on the wood of the neck and sand the edge flat. the high E will have a small visible gap. Well, that doesn’t matter.

You can also get an actual bone nut from Nex Gen. make sure it’s a 9.5 radius. Order 2 or 3 because you will break them all and give up, but you will be able to learn if you have a few.

place 100-300grit below the 12th fret on the board. Sand the nut on there. The bottom will be shaped to the radius of the neck. It will take about 400 tries to get it to the right height. You’ll either sand it too low right away and fry the nut. Or you will think you’ve nailed it and put the nut in place and a year later someone will say “dude, this is way too high”

It is worth taking it to a tech if you have better things to do with your life than luthiery.

Easiest way to tell if it’s the nut is that the oval from the truss Rod won’t be in the middle of the D and G strings.


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## blue_dog (Feb 7, 2013)

Always12AM said:


> It’s always a good starting point to look at the dots in relation to the strings.
> 
> This would be my exact process:
> 1. Loosen strings enough that they are still wound, but not tight. Loosen neck bolts just enough that you can wiggle the neck a bit.
> ...


Yes try the step 1, it looks like the neck isn't aligned with the bridge and you may need to nudge the neck towards the upper horn. The dots should be in the middle of strings. Could also be the bridge width if the strat has been modified and can also be the nut. If you order one check if the nut bottom is flat or curved.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Voxguy76 said:


> It is a new guitar. Well road worn, but new. I saw the disproportionate cut on the nut. Thanks guys, much appreciated.


Yup, I compared your photo with a few of my Fenders (USA & MIM), your nut is badly cut.


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

Much appreciated guys. Will give it a go this weekend.


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## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

Looking forward to seeing your "I fixed it" post! 
Good luck!🙂


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

As an aside, I contacted the retailer i purchased this guitar from explaining the issue. Here was the response from the store:

"I'm very sorry to hear about this. This guitar is straight from the factory, we didn't do any modifications from the nut. Since we are closing down we wouldn't be able to do anything in the way of warranty but you should be able to go to any Fender dealer any they should be able to figure something out for you. Another option is that we can send you a prefab nut to replace it but it might need some work to set up the intonation. Thanks."


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## Eric Reesor (Jan 26, 2020)

From what I see look at the string spacing at the bridge! Up at the twelfth fret it looks like the string is not spaced correctly coming from the nut and the string will slip off even more in the higher positions when you play above the 7th fret. Make sure the spacing is to spec for both ends of the fingerboard not just the nut.
It might be setup all wrong at both the nut and bridge IMO. It can help to use a wide curf saw very carefully to actually saw out the nut. But it takes a very steady hand and stable clamping of the neck to accomplish. A Dremel with the right size of bit will do a better job but again it takes a very steady hand and patience to not mess it up horribly. If you do use a Dremel then speed set it lower as too much pressure on the bit and high speed can burn the nut instead of cutting it cleanly. As suggested above score carefully the slot line on the edges of the nut with a very sharp fine exacto knife blade, it will give you a set line to work with either a wide curf saw or a dremel bit..


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Eric Reesor said:


> It can help to use a wide curf saw very carefully to actually saw out the nut. But it takes a very steady hand and stable clamping of the neck to accomplish. A Dremel with the right size of bit will do a better job but again it takes a very steady hand and patience to not mess it up horribly. If you do use a Dremel then speed set it lower as too much pressure on the bit and high speed can burn the nut instead of cutting it cleanly. As suggested above score carefully the slot line on the edges of the nut with a very sharp fine exacto knife blade, it will give you a set line to work with either a wide curf saw or a dremel bit..


OMG! No, just no.
The only tool required to pop a nut out is a fret puller. I have maybe two or three times in 15 years needed to saw out a nut and that is only ever due to some fool using super glue to to install the nut. Most of the time you don't even need to score the lacquer because it's usually cracked all around the nut. A nut is installed using a couple of very small drops of wood glue. That's all.
This stuff isn't rocket surgery. Don't overthink it.

You have two things at play with the spacing; the vintage style 2 3/16 bridge string spacing- which always maximized the string spread over the fretboard- and the nut, which, as we all can plainly see, is cut too close to the edge of the board.

Take the guitar to a competent tech and they will sort it out for you.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

zztomato said:


> OMG! No, just no.
> The only tool required to pop a nut out is a fret puller. I have maybe two or three times in 15 years needed to saw out a fret and that is only ever due to some fool using super glue to to install the nut. Most of the time you don't even need to score the lacquer because it's usually cracked all around the nut. A nut is installed using a couple of very small drops of wood glue. That's all.
> This stuff isn't rocket surgery. Don't overthink it.
> 
> ...



Just a note, if you buy necks from some sellers, you may find that the nuts are superglued in.

Removing them takes some care. I did some damage to one such neck and fortunately a competent tech was able to perform some magic and save it.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Voxguy76 said:


> Thanks for that suggestion. I will give this a try first before messing with the nut. Much appreciated!


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Came in to advise on the problem and already see tons of expert advice given. Gotta love this forum!

On a related note, how does something like this make it to the retail floor? The person who installed the nut and did the final setup didn't notice it? The final QC person didn't notice it? I can see the shop missing it if it was purchased online. But, if purchased in person, how could the sales rep not notice? This kind of stuff baffles me.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Just a note, if you buy necks from some sellers, you may find that the nuts are superglued in.
> 
> Removing them takes some care. I did some damage to one such neck and fortunately a competent tech was able to perform some magic and save it.


They clearly are not thinking about servicing down the road and _only _thinking about their own process in making necks as cheaply as possible. The nut is a part that can wear out or can have a slot cut too low very easily. That's why they should never be glued in n a more or less permanent fashion. 

If you ever need to remove one like this again, you could try a soldering iron to heat the nut. If it can take enough heat to soften the glue it may just pop out. Of course, if it's made of cheap plastic, it will just melt on contact before transferring any heat far enough to release the glue.


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

jbealsmusic said:


> Came in to advise on the problem and already see tons of expert advice given. Gotta love this forum!
> 
> On a related note, how does something like this make it to the retail floor? The person who installed the nut and did the final setup didn't notice it? The final QC person didn't notice it? I can see the shop missing it if it was purchased online. But, if purchased in person, how could the sales rep not notice? This kind of stuff baffles me.


I agree. It was definitely purchased online. This is why I prefer buying a used guitar on this forum, over any new guitar at the store. I've purchased 2 new guitars from stores online in the past 2 years. Both, have had issues.


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

Here's another photo. You can see where the dots are centered near the body of the guitar then gradually drift as you approach the tuners.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Voxguy76 said:


> Here's another photo. You can see where the dots are centered near the body of the guitar then gradually drift as you approach the tuners.
> 
> View attachment 450905
> 
> View attachment 450904


That's a tele not a strat.

Anyway, try to move the neck first. Loosen the four neck screws as shown in that video and give it a pull towards the bass side.
You could also play a bit with the strings are over the saddle.


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

zztomato said:


> That's a tele not a strat.
> 
> Anyway, try to move the neck first. Loosen the four neck screws as shown in that video and give it a pull towards the bass side.
> You could also play a bit with the strings are over the saddle.


It is most definitely a tele lol. Who said it was a strat?

Edit - guess I did. Sorry that was most definitely a typo, apologies.lol.


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Nut slot look OK . Your picture show deep high E string nut slot. String can't slipping from the nut.


You write ; " ....the high E slipping off the fretboard."

You did not write "...slipping off the nut"


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## Eric Reesor (Jan 26, 2020)

Changing the neck angle slightly might work. But if you do that then make certain that the screws have the tolerance needed to tweak the neck angle and never over tighten the screw bolts to lock the neck down in place again. Stripping the wood on a bolt on neck guitars by over tightening the neck screws on guitars is common and repairable by someone who knows how.

If you do manage to establish more space from the string to the dress edge of the frets, then a single very thin hard paper shim on the bass side might work to help keep the new neck alignment in place. I have even seen spark plug feeler gauge steel pieces used in the past for aligning bolt on necks. A little bit of a bodge but far better than over tightening the bolts!

From the latest picture it looks like the high e is far too close to the point at which the frets are dressed down up the neck at the 21 and down to the twelfth. Fine if you don't play off the fingertips and play with a touch so light that you do not slide the strings on the frets at all. But impossible for playing pull offs or hammer on slurs as the e will be impossible to keep from slipping off the fret board.

I should have clarified that if you cannot get the nut out fairly easily then more drastic measures might be the only option. Fret plyers can be used but really gently, if you squeeze them too hard it is very easy to shatter bone and tusk.

Sometimes the only answer is to use a secured router to clean out the slot again, and that requires the right tools used with great care and experience.

Many so called geetar techs in some of the museek stores especially have a penchant for gluing the crap out of nuts and bridges on steel string acoustic but especially on low action electrics guitar's nuts to keep them from slipping for the players who do string and chord bends like crazy and slide the nut around in the nut slot. 

That is why most luthiers hate doing repairs to music store repaired instruments. You can go broke in the process because sometimes the repair can be time consumingly expensive, even for something that is really simple like making a new nut or properly setting up a guitar that has been messed with.

Get the specs for the width of the neck width at the first fret and see if it has been messed with and narrowed on the treble side. To my eye something about the neck in the last picture does not look quite kosher, almost as if it was narrowed on the treble side during a refret job. If this is the case, then you might need to compromise and narrow the string spacing at both the bridge and the nut accordingly to make E 1st playable again. The guitar may even suffer from what I call "ring rash", a terrible condition where the reincarnation of Liberace plays an electric and the neck is slowly eaten of the treble side unless the player has the wring on their thumb in which case the neck is narrowed on the bass side.

I do hope that the problem is just work by someone who didn't know what they were doing and spaced the nut slot wrong for a standard telecaster.

Eric


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## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

Couldnt you shave off the top of the nut and 2 piece it like a Gibson nut?


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## Eric Reesor (Jan 26, 2020)

Thunderboy1975 said:


> Couldnt you shave off the top of the nut and 2 piece it like a Gibson nut?


Possible with the right types of glue but it is not that easy. Like I said over gluing of the nut is common and can be a royal PITA for who ever wants to restore the guitar to a playable state. If you are a dentist you can actually create posts and do bone repair if necessary but why take your guitar to a dentist...
Most good luthiers that do repairs have the right tools necessary to do high end fine detail work and dental grade drilling tools are a real bonus for difficult and delicate repairs but only if absolutely necessary. With saddles and nuts they can be made composite laminated without destroying the functionality or strength of the end result at all. 
The very last thing that you want to do is shorten the distance between zero and the first fret by enlarging the nut slot! If that has been done then correction of the distance from the nut to the first becomes necessary to intone the instrument correctly. The math and knowledge of scale lengths and fretting distances is crucial for the repair and building of great instruments. Cheap guitars that come off production lines quite often are out of whack. It is common knowledge that a few came out of a Canadian factory for quite a while and Gibson was notorious for building cheap classical guitars that had the wrong bridge intonation setting.  I played one many years ago and they were un-tunable they sounded like crap in the upper positions..


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## Eric Reesor (Jan 26, 2020)

Just expanded the last pic and it definitely looks like the neck angle is slightly off. The e string gets closer to the fret ends the further up the neck. So down tune the instrument only until the strings are at a very low tension but still straight between the nut and the bridge: then gently loosen the screws with the right size and configuration screw driver do not remove them. Really old fenders had large slotted if I remember correctly. Newer and some altered repaired ones have philips head screw bolts. _I suffer from old fart disease and details like what fender used in the 1950's on tellies eludes me. _
Only then see if the neck will move just a titch upward to the bass side until the line of the now less tensioned strings gives more relief on the treble side. If this works: what ever you do, do not overtighten the screws and if the neck seems very loose on the screws then most likely a very thin shim will help on the bottom of the bass side of the neck at the joint. The tolerances are very small indeed so even a very thin piece of hard paper can work but a small smooth clean piece of very thing feeler gauge metal is best. Don't use glue with the shim if it needs one just find one thin enough to keep the neck straight on the correct line. This is all the guitar might need IMO after close examination of the last picture. If you are lucky the neck will stay without a shim but if it constantly needs to have the same thing done over and over again then a very thin shim should work.

The other problems with the this design shows up with tell tail signs of overtightening of the neck screw bolts: the screw plate is often badly distorted by over torque. It should be flat if not get a replacement and keep the other for if it is a serial numbered labeled original. Resetting the neck ain't rocket science but requires careful attention to the factors listed in this thread. It goes without saying, never take the screws out without loosening the strings to the point that it won't cause the screws to strip and the neck is loose enough to not damage it during removal.
If the neck vertical angle is correct and the truss is tensioned nicely then resetting the neck should not cause the string height to change at all. That is the great thing about good Fenders that are well maintained they are made with great maple necks that last and are easy to service and fantastic to play!🤠
All my best in getting it back to a decent playability without seeing huge chunks of cash depart from your wallet.
Eric


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Just put the neck back parallel to the body. 4 screws to loosen........

A normal adjustment for this type of mounting. It has nothing to do with the nut as I mentioned earlier


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

It looks like the neck needs to be shifted over, but the nut also looks off center. The spacing looks ok, but the high E looks closer to the edge of the nut than the low E.

Shifting the neck over is simple. Just loosen the screws and pull it over, hold it in place while you tighten the screws again.

If it's really bad you may need to put a little shim in the side of the neck pocket, but that's rare.


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

Update, as suggested above i loosened the neck plate and slightly shifted the neck. Made a noticeable improvement. Thanks again guys. Your knowledge here is always appreciated.
Oddly enough while looking up this model at other vendors, it appears that this seems to be standard amongst this model. Here's a photo of the same guitar at another shop.


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