# Chords and Scales - what to do



## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

I'm sure this has been covered in previous threads but to be honest I wouldn't know how to find it.

I've gotten so used to just using tabs and my ear to learn songs that I don't know how to just improvise over chords. I have a Digitech Trio now and want to be able to improvise over some basic chord progression. I'm mostly interested in blues improve but I'm open to anything that will make me understand how to use the "boxes" that I know (pentatonic scale) with chords. I know what boxes to use over the first chord but I don't know how to move from one chord to the next. 

I hope I made that understandable.

Help?


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## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

Here is a great pentatonic jam in G
[video=youtube;MQfrD_Ifqzg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQfrD_Ifqzg[/video]

Listen to the basic 24 bar intro riff - few notes carried into the other chords


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I have found that a good chunk of time, people with no formal training come up with really expressive melodies because they aren't limited by theoretical or practical knowledge of the instrument. If no one every shows you "the way" to do things, you're always free to do what you think is right. I say that as someone who only knew how to play a minor scale over an Em-Dmaj-Cmaj progression for a while. I haven't put a ton of time into improving, but I understand far more now than I did about the fretboard. 

This reverb.com lesson may be of help:

https://reverb.com/blog/learn-to-play-diatonic-chord-progressions

You can use the same pentatonic box over the whole progression, or you can change the box to fit the chord you're on. If you do that, you'll need to know your major pentatonic box as well.

I suggest finding some decent (aka simple haha) backing tracks on youtube, and just seeing what you come up with.

Unfortunately I'm not a ton of help as I keep meaning to practice emphasizing chord changes using lead lines myself haha.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Tough to explain but I'll try...

Within a blues context, I, IV, V, you can stay within the minor pentatonic for the I chord through the entire progression because the roots for all 3 chords are within the key scale. Also, the I scale shares some common tones with the IV and V scales. For example, in a blues in E, E (I), A(IV), B(V), those 3 individual notes are represented in the minor pentatonic scale in E (E (I), G, A (IV), B (V), D). Really the only trick here is hitting the right notes at the right time to emphasize the chord changes. You really can't go too far wrong though.

As far as changing the scale when the chord changes occur, the easiest way to get your head around it is think of a specific riff that's repeated exactly the same in the 3 scales as the chord changes occur. It's done quite often in a rhythm context. Do the riff based on the E minor pent, A minor pent, D minor pent. There are several ways to do this. You could take the pattern of the riff in E (open) and move it up to the 5th fret for A, 7th fret for B or do it E open, transpose it down a string for the A and up 2 frets for the B...or several other ways but you get the picture.

Here's a few riff based songs that demonstrate what I'm talking about although some aren't 12 bar blues and may have different changes, but the principle is the same.

Tore Down - Eric Clapton, one guitar is doing this root, octave, walkdown thing repeatedly within a 12 bar, changing the key of the riff to match the chord that's being played.

Day Tripper - Beatles, iconic riff repeated over the I and IV, they also do it in the bridge over a 3rd chord (V maybe?) but I can't get my damn pinky far enough.

Hair Of The Dog - Nazareth, another iconic riff repeated over the I and IV in the verse.

Sunshine Of Your Love - Cream, the little walkdown after he chords the DDCD is transposed when he chords the GGFG later in the progression (also I, IV).

Honestly, I could list another 20 examples without even thinking much about it, it's pretty common as a rhythm tool and probably most easily understood within that context. I hope this helps simplify it for you as a starting point, maybe a different way of looking at it.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I'm in a very similar position.

I was a huge tab guy to my downfall - that's being a bit dramatic, but still. The tab only takes you so far.

However, the good thing is that with tab, your technical skill develops to the level of the band's you're listening to (assuming you don't cut corners, etc.).

A combination of Sambonee's advice of searching for the note that "sounds right" plus JB's advice on playing over the fretboard has helped immensely. 

I have a hard time remembering the kind of info taught in the reverb video. It's easy to understand, but I'm certain I wouldn't get it in a jam setting.

Also, the issue I have with improv on the Trio is that it's hard without a guitar chord progression to play over. Soloing over bass and drums is too hard for me. However, I did manage to get an okay blues vibe BEHIND the soloing, but it was tricky. That f'n trio can be a pain. I would have to explain how I got it to behave like this over the phone (if you're interested) I just uploaded it:

https://soundcloud.com/klon-solo/blues-riff-1

Alternatively, I have put some chords through a looper and made it work with the trio to make things simpler, and it has helped.

If you're interested in a demo of how I manage (I'd use sam's advice with some JB), let me know. It sounds like we're kinda at the same place.

Here's the JB video with the pentatonic scale stuff (starts about 2:38):

[video=youtube;aAzR40U9SY0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAzR40U9SY0[/video]


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Thanks you guys!

Budda - I watched that video. Great information but I'm going to have to re-watch it a bunch of times to really understand what he's saying. I got a bit of it but I have a thick skull. Sometimes info is hard to get in there!

JBF - thanks for the detailed info. I know exactly what you're talking about with respect to the repeated riffs. I was kind of working on that last night with my Digitech Trio. I played a couple of chords (E and A) then tried soloing over both and playing riffs. I was starting to see the boxes on the fretboard as I played. It was kinda fun. It's amazing what you pick up when you set about learning that way.

adcandour - love that JB video although I never really paid attention to what he was saying. I just enjoyed his tone. Just re-watched it and thought to myself a few times "hey Joe! Can you play that a little faster?" That guy is a speed demon. Amazing. Thanks for the phone call offer. I'll definitely keep that in mind if I get stuck. Would you believe I've had that Trio for over a month or two and was just able to take it out of the box last night!

As as for the Trio and looper, I was thinking the same thing last night. It would be nice to be able to play over (and hear) the chord progression used to set up your rhythm. Luckily I have a Ditto Looper. I'll have to give that a try. I'm guessing the best thing to do is record the chords on the Ditto then play the Ditto through the Trio to get the rhythm section going.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

Ive got an idea....
Pick a slow blues number and respond to the singer after he said his line.
By respond, I actually mean to play the singing line right after he sings it.
This will guide you thru the chord progressions and after a while try and improvise a little based on the lead line you have learned.

If you keep this up, you should be able to completely leave the original lead line whenever you want and all ways get back to it at your command.
Thats basically what all the blues player do.

G.
This is a good example of the kind of song you can play along with and practice my suggestion.

[video=youtube;dwc7ZEYfWYc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwc7ZEYfWYc[/video]


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

GTmaker said:


> Ive got an idea....
> Pick a slow blues number and respond to the singer after he said his line.
> By respond, I actually mean to play the singing line right after he sings it.
> This will guide you thru the chord progressions and after a while try and improvise a little based on the lead line you have learned.
> ...


Thanks GT. I can kind of do that already by ear - and by kind of I mean I stumble a lot and I'm not sure what box to use but I can hit a series of notes that sound good.

I just really want a better understanding of the relationship between the chords that I'm playing and say the pentatonic scale.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Sambonee's advice of "looking for the RIGHT note" is huge. It frees you from patterns that you lock yourself into. Close your eyes and find the right note at the right time and milk it.

GT makes a great point as well. All the great players try to emulate the sound of a VOICE with the guitar. Just bear in mind, the vocal melody might NOT be totally in the minor pent scale. Focus on what the voice is actually doing, does a bend to a note sound more like the melody, a slide, a hammer on? Also, there are a few other nearby notes that alter the mp scale into something of a hybrid. Don't be afraid to step out of that "box". It will still be there like a security blanket if you step out a little too far.

The most important thing about all of this imo? Whatever you do, make sure a little of YOU is present. Often, it's the quirks that differentiate one player from another.

Oh and don't take my advice to mean I'm an expert. I have far more words of wisdom (?) than actual talent. Have fun. Stretch yourself. Most of all, EXPRESS YOURSELF. (gawd as soon as I wrote that the line from that song popped into my head, how's THAT for a hook?)


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

You made me feel like throwing on a cone bra and some lingerie and dry humping the nearest person. What's happening to me?


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## jeancoltrane (Feb 20, 2015)

if you havent already, learn the 5 pentatonic boxes all over the neck. this way youre not just shifting the same box around for any given chord. i think to be a good lead player you have to be a great rhythm player. sure its nice to know all the scales & arpeggios, but most of the greats 'see' chords while soloing, not scales. this means knowing lots and lots of chords, their inversions & extensions all over the neck. as youre soloing, visualize the chord shapes and aim to land on or target the notes of the given chord. the benefit of this approach is it will make you a much more diverse rhythm player as well as lead. 

for blues, you can start simply with the classic pentatonic box, learn the chords within that box & target the chord tones as they change, using the pentatonic as your guideline or 'home scale'. now move on to the next pentatonic box and learn the inversions of those chords within that area. do this for all 5 boxes, and you'll have the whole neck covered with at least 10 different ways to play any given chord in a blues. the goal is to be able to 'see' any chord no matter where you are on the neck, without shifting around. 

good luck


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## grooveyard (Dec 3, 2012)

imho - Please take some time to teach yourself how a major scale works. Everything we'll ever play is either a major scale or a variation on a major scale. Learn what the intervals are all about (1st,2nd, 3rd, 5th etc....all of them in fact. A simple major chord is made up of the 1st, 3rd, and 5th steps of the scale - it doesn't matter what key your in - this rule is universal) if you want a 7th chord, add the 7th step of the scale. 

Forget about the 'boxes' you've memorized. Learn all the notes on the neck, learn how a scale works, then start fresh. You'll see those 'boxes' again but now you'll understand what the notes mean.

Now when you're jamming, and someone plays a minor chord, your ear will hear it and you'll know that you're hearing a minor (as opposed to a major - these chords sound very different from one another - ), and with your new knowledge of scales you'll know what note to add to your riffing to compliment the minor. And because you've learned all the notes on the fretboard you'll be able to grab the proper note from any number of places on the neck - and really able to express yourself so much better than before - 

No real short cuts here - learn the fretboard, learn about the inner workings of a major scale - and you'll be able to really expand your creativity - 

imho


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