# Is it still called an F chord if I add another C?



## mozilla2004 (Nov 1, 2020)

I know this is called an F major triad on the guitar:










But what would this chord be called?










It's the F major triad with one extra C note in it. Is it still an F chord of some kind?


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## @melrose (Feb 22, 2021)

mozilla2004 said:


> I know this is called an F major triad on the guitar:
> 
> View attachment 359135
> 
> ...


Yes. Just now it’s inverted to create a different voicing.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

I believe it is considered the second inversion as the third chord tone is now in the bass (F/C). I.e., if you put another a in the bass, instead of that C, it would be a first inversion F (F/A). 
C


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

__





Chord Identifier (Namer)


A chord builder tool that lets you identify the chord name.



www.all-guitar-chords.com





I tried it using this site and the name didn't change.


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## mozilla2004 (Nov 1, 2020)

Thanks @Guitar101 For the Chord Identifier website!

The website shows this is also called F Major








So let's say I were an alien from another planet with 20 arms and several fingers on each arm. I see a piano and I play a chord that has one F note, every octave of the A note and every octave of the C note. Is that chord still called an F major chord? I tried to overwhelm the F note with all the A and C available to me. At what point do we stop calling the chord an F chord?


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

The name is going to be based on the context, or you can call it whatever you want.

Are you playing the high e note? What chords are you playing before and after this?

Is this an F chord to you, or is it a C type chord?

I was taught to play a C with a G on the bass, and it is always C/G to me.

So if you hear it as an F then it is an F/C. Try playing it as a barre chord, is it the same chord?

In isolation you might call this a Csus6, but the sus would suggest the F is going to resolve to an E at some point.

You could call this a C13th, which implies a Bb note would work, or a Cmaj13, which implies a B note would work.

If you randomly put your fingers down on the fretboard, there’s a very good chance you will play some type of 11th or 13th chord.


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## @melrose (Feb 22, 2021)

mozilla2004 said:


> Thanks @Guitar101 For the Chord Identifier website!
> 
> The website shows this is also called F Major
> View attachment 359137
> ...


When you are another note other outside of the major triad or you replace one of the notes. 

Think about it this way, the shape you first presented is basically the bottom half of F major bar chord. So the bar chord itself has repeating notes, reflecting the fact that there are 2 octaves from the 6th string to the 1 st. Repeating notes don’t change the nature of the chord. Adding, removing or replacing with new notes outside of the major triad will change the chord.


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## mozilla2004 (Nov 1, 2020)

OK got it, the name of the chord is based on* the distinct notes* being played. Even if I play F0, A0 to A1million, and C0 to C1million, the only distinct notes are F A and C. Hence, F major chord.


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## Stephenlouis (Jun 24, 2019)

I've intentionally not read any of the replies I will go through them after I give you my answer. The root tells you what the chord is. In my mind if the first note strikes 
a C it's no longer an F


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## Trevor Giancola (Jan 30, 2017)

F/C


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

It's an F/C chord. An inversion of the F chord. Inversions are often used to manipulate the bass line.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Today I learned thar "/*" is an inversion of a chord.

Cool.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Budda said:


> Today I learned thar "/*" is an inversion of a chord.
> 
> Cool.


Most of the time. Sometimes the note name after the slash is a non-chord tone but is a transitional bass note leading to the next chord. I guess that technically the non-chord tone could be seen as an extension (eg 7th, 9th...) but if you were to insert that same note somewhere else in the chord other than the bass, it wouldn't sound "right". 

I hope that makes sense.


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## slag banal (May 4, 2020)

“The name is going to be based on the context, [without a context] you can call it whatever you want.”


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

You guys are WAY overcomplicating stuff.
Back to original Q
if F chord is played with F-A-C notes, and if another note (any of those) is played octave higher lower is it still F chord. Yes it is, end of story.

the order of notes in the chord defines the inversion. However in the guitar sometimes order of notes in the chord is not "regular" because of the fingering. For example full F barre chord (full E shape) is played 1 5 1 3 5 1 (F C F A C F)

So regular TRIAD (chord with three notes) will have following inversions
Root: 1-3-5
1st inversion: 3-5-1
2nd inversion: 5-1-3
In a guitar perhaps makes more sense to thing which note of the chord is played in the bass and define inversion based on that so
if root not of the triad is played in bass - root position
if 3rd of the chord is played in the bass - 1st inversion
if 5th of the chord is played in bass - 2nd inversion.

Where the complications start to arise is when you look into the chord not in isolation (like I did) but in the context of part of the whole band.
For example if bass plays F note, and you play A-C-F on guitar, in total you are getting F-A-C-F still F chord.

BUT if bass plays a tone that is not part of FAC - then you are not getting simple triad F chord, but 4 note chord and that deserves separate question and discussion.


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## Eric Reesor (Jan 26, 2020)

Always recon intervals from one note to another upward in pitch and the problems with understanding chord naming conventions disappear. Then the process of learning how to create and understand cadences becomes easy. When you realise that voices move both within chords and in transition in cadence much of the mystery of why music harmony has a rational basis become clear.

Try pedalling (sustaining the triad or interval or even single root, third or fifth) of one chord and moving voices around within the inversions possible, not just by trying to play all the notes at once in a strum session of endless chord changes. Your friends listening to you play will thank you for your efforts to be more than a strumming chord monkey! Then move on to alternating a root and fifth in the bass while moving a melody in the higher notes of the chord. You will discover that unlimited amounts of movement of melody can happen around certain combinations of either the root or the fifth of the cord but if the third of the chord is in the bass then modulation away from the chord to another chord all together becomes much easier to accomplish.

Learn the purpose of voice leading and how to move inner voices within a chord or cadence only then music and harmony becomes much less of a mystery. Thinking only in terms of "what are the chords to a tune" is the best way to stagnate as an aspiring musician.

Learning music theory is certainly easier if you do it on the piano. The problem with relying upon other peoples chord charts is that the vast majority are terrible and essentially useless. Most are charted by paid keyboard jockeys and midi music notation desk jockey monkeys that piano enter midi or keyboard enter guitar chords from software preset guitar chord charts without consideration for what is actually possible on the neck of the guitar.

There are exceptions and there are excellent publications with accurate charts, but when you see a sequence of changes of fully voiced six note inversions of guitar chords charted on a song lead sheet, you can be certain it was published by a cheapo American music publication house. Historically they just copy down charts for chord voicing and fingerings for songs and do not employ people who have a rats ass clue or a lick of sense about what a guitarist has to do to play the chords.
That is why I stick to written music and scoff at computer generated tab and chord charts!


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## nbs2005 (Mar 21, 2018)

@Eric Reesor , can you point to an example of what you described above on pedaling the Triad? I think I get what you are saying but would love to listen to or see a short written example.

These discussions are always far more interesting than 'which X, Y, or Z' should I get!


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## Eric Reesor (Jan 26, 2020)

nbs2005 said:


> @Eric Reesor , can you point to an example of what you described above on pedaling the Triad? I think I get what you are saying but would love to listen to or see a short written example.
> 
> These discussions are always far more interesting than 'which X, Y, or Z' should I get!


Simple, if you do not think of a triad as being a chord inversion then by using arpeggio techniques one expands upon the music. Mauro Guiliani was great at expanding upon chord structures by simply conceiving of how to get out of a triad or move in register by adding notes to chords. A good example of this is how he modulates out of key in his Grand Overture for guitar. He introduces new voices (melodies) by adding notes not within the triad to sequential playing of basic triads. In this instance an ascending or stacked triad. Brahms commonly used stacked fourths or the distance between the fifth of a chord and the octave root of the chord, The OP asked if adding a note to a chord of the same chord changed the chord, it does not but certainly can change where the melody or voice of a tune is going. You can easily get yourself into an ascending or descending and hollow sounding harmonic pickle if no new notes are added to movement or stacking of triads. Mozart used his incredible chromaticism to great effect to avoid the problem of getting caught up into ascending or descending arpeggio loops.

Ascending chord arpeggios in the piece below use a single chord to introduce a modulation to another unrelated key by adding the leading tone of the key where the idea is heading.

Certainly this piece is very harmonically simple in structure, predominantly by peddling or (extending chords past the octave while having either the root or the fifth played repeatedly or alternated up and down in the bass ) Instead of being constructed with a "blocked" or broken chord chord strum structure. A technique which makes modulation out of key easier to achieve. The trick is in how to get back to the original key structure without leaving the listener of the performer confused as to melodic movement or as the great teacher Walter Piston called: The 'harmonic rhythm of the piece'.
Music is sound in time which, like language needs syntax structured phrases to be comprehensible. So as musicians and composers we need to have methods to give form to melodies and good ways to introduce new phrases (melodies).


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

My only question is...is that open high E played or not. If it's played, it's an F Major 7 and if it's not, it's the F/C, which is still an F chord on it's own. Adding harmonic context may change things. Like other have already mentioned.


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## ChungasRevenge (Aug 2, 2021)

mozilla2004 said:


> I know this is called an F major triad on the guitar:
> 
> View attachment 359135
> 
> ...


All these chords can substitute F major


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