# clean headroom/low wattage?



## SkyFire_ca (Jul 16, 2007)

hey guys... I'll start this way... I hate "recommend me this" threads, but I find myself to be in a position where I'm actually looking for recommendations...

I'm trying to find a relatively low wattage (I'll explain more) combo amp with an absolute pile of clean headroom. looking for practice/gigable volumes, bearing in mind that gigs are mic'd and practice is with an regular drum kit, but a fairly tame/controlled drummer. I'm aiming for "classic" fender cleans for use with everything from tele/strat to 335/LP. Playing everything from classic rock, 90's alt/rock, even blues/jazz.
Now... why i'd prefer lower wattage is mostly the bizarre idea that it'll be smaller and lighter. I'm not adverse to a 100watter that's 1x12 and 40lbs, but that's not likely to happen. As well, lower wattage should prevent the "low volume" muddiness.
Things I've owned/tried... Traynor YGM-3/4 something combo, Traynor YVC40WR (both seem to break up too early or just not sound right...) Also tried several fenders, Pro and Blues JR (blues sounded good, not sure how long it'll stay clean) few other random things, mostly too heavy or loud.

I'm open to brand new, used or custom, as long as it's reasonably available and ... under $1500-2000? 

so I'll shut up and let someone else talk...


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

I always felt the Peavey Classic 30 was a great grab-and-go amp. It runs a quad of EL84s and is rated around 30 watts. The clean channel sounded quite good to my ears, though I don't recall there being "an absolute pile of clean headroom" available...or in any portable tube amp for that matter. Regardless, they don't cost much used either...around $400-$600 I think. Just my $.02...


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

My YCV40 (not WR) had gobs of clean headroom. I had a Reverend speaker in it and a 12at7 in V1, both of which helped.

Think about a Fender Princeton in your price range. Maybe a Pro.

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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

My YCV40 (not WR) had gobs of clean headroom. I had a Reverend speaker in it and a 12at7 in V1, both of which helped.

Think about a Fender Princeton in your price range. Maybe a Pro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1aiHbDhhMc


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

One more time, a little louder? My tinnitus is acting up hwopv

To the OP, I think you just described a Deluxe Reverb RI (or Silverface in that budget)....more headroom, look at a YCV50blue, about 50 lbs so a little over budget, but a very nice Fendery clean with a lot of headroom - certainly lots more than a Deluxe or Classic 30 (Ive owned all 3). With the YCV50, you'd have lot's of $ budget left for a speaker and maybe tubes changeout, make it from a really good to a really stellar amp.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

Something around 50 Watts seems like a good ratio of headroom to weight for what you need...in my eyes.



Of course, I always hated headroom. My 5 watt vibrochamp clone had too much headroom for me.

Maybe something like a Tweed Bassman, Tweed Twin or a Deville...


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

Trinity Amps - Triwatt Custom Lead. Using 2 KJ66's for power, it has an insanely awesome clean tone, with a switchable extra gain stage if you want to get really dirty. I think its about 36 watts. You can also run it with two 6V6's for less volume and less clean headroom.

I use mine for gigging the bars around here, and it is just an amazing amp. Cuts through anything, has a great tone and takes all my pedals well.

Check it out... at www.trinityamps.com

AJC


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

Just remembered - I also have a home-brew copy of a Dr. Z Stangray... 4 EL84's, one EF86 preamp. It stays clean until you get it cranked totaly. I am not sure how much they cost, and it is a simple amp (one volume, tone and cut - thats it) but you probably cant beat it for clean headroom. Its about 30 watts or so as well.

AJC


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## SkyFire_ca (Jul 16, 2007)

wow... lots of ideas... 12AT7 (or other lower gain pre) might do what I need in the YCV, or a speaker change from the damned V30 in it... I only seem to like those for ... metal? i dunno. I think they're a "2 or more" kind of speaker, but that's me.
I've stared at the deluxe's for ever (and similar vintage fenders) and I usually like the tones, just not the size/weight of some. Maybe one of the current clones, like the Allen's or some such... light pine cab, etc.
and lastly... AJC... Triwatt turns my crank. and, I bet that head is nice and light. but then again, without a sweet hiwatt 4x12 
I suppose, with the right cab it'd be nice and light, just 2 pieces.
I should add, I'm getting onto a gilmour-style kick these days... the idea that anything can be made from a powerful clean tone.

I could almost say "case closed" on the Hiwatt if I could only walk into L&M and order one... at least then I could go "meh" and leave if it wasn't my thing. That, and the $1500 US price tag on the head alone is mildly scary. I'm willing to spend it, but not on "faith" alone.


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

SkyFire_ca said:


> wow... lots of ideas... 12AT7 (or other lower gain pre) might do what I need in the YCV, or a speaker change from the damned V30 in it... I only seem to like those for ... metal? i dunno. I think they're a "2 or more" kind of speaker, but that's me.
> I've stared at the deluxe's for ever (and similar vintage fenders) and I usually like the tones, just not the size/weight of some. Maybe one of the current clones, like the Allen's or some such... light pine cab, etc.
> and lastly... AJC... Triwatt turns my crank. and, I bet that head is nice and light. but then again, without a sweet hiwatt 4x12
> I suppose, with the right cab it'd be nice and light, just 2 pieces.
> ...


You should email Stephen at Trinity and ask him if anyone reasonably near you has bought one (I know a few are out East..) that you maybe can try out.

The Tri is a very "Gilmour'ish" amp... based on his modded Hiwatt.

If you build the kit yourself you can save a bunch, but you kind'a need to know what you are doing 

I would LOVE to let you try mine out... I am heading East next summer for a few weeks vacation... if you want to wait that long:smile:

AJC


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## SkyFire_ca (Jul 16, 2007)

hmm that's not a bad idea (the try-it out email)
as for the Kit, it wouldn't be my first time with an iron, but I'm no pro. mind you, a good friend of mine is a electronics guy by trade. he's usually fixing SMT style every-day circuits, but...
I didn't see any kits listed on the site now though, they still do that? and... how much do you really save?

as for trying yours, I'd absolutely love to. knowing my indecisiveness, I'm not likely to reach a real conclusion until then heh

with all this in mind, any other combo based ideas?


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## MaxProphet (Nov 9, 2007)

fender DRRI


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

MaxProphet said:


> fender DRRI


+1 on that.


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

SkyFire_ca said:


> hmm that's not a bad idea (the try-it out email)
> as for the Kit, it wouldn't be my first time with an iron, but I'm no pro. mind you, a good friend of mine is a electronics guy by trade. he's usually fixing SMT style every-day circuits, but...
> I didn't see any kits listed on the site now though, they still do that? and... how much do you really save?
> 
> ...


Kir prices are on the site... I think the triwatt cost me about a grand Canadian, with the head cabinet and tubes - basically a complete kit except for solder 

If you have any questions, check out the forum... it is a wealth of advice and so forth from others who have been there/done that...

AJC


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The appetite for low wattage amps is precisely to be able to produce great overdriven amp-on-the-edge-catchng-fire tone at less than house-shaking volumes. Consequently, there will be VERY little that will be clean in stock form.

That being said, tubes vary in the extent to which they will either run clean on plate-voltage X (if they are the power stage) or push the power tubes into clipping (if they are in the preamps stage).

So, recommendations to consider lower-gain preamp tubes, like a 12AT7, AY7, or AU7 in place of a 12AX7 (the most commonly found, but highest gain of the lot) are well-founded, as are recommendations to consider other brands of the power tube in question (I say "tube" because I figure you're looking at a 5W or less Class A amp).


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...call your local l&m and see if they can track down a ycv15blue for you.

-dh


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## SkyFire_ca (Jul 16, 2007)

I get ya... V1 usually contributes the greatest to the total gain of ones preamp, or something like that. It's simple math... take 3 stages at 100x amplification, you get 1,000,000 times the original signal (ignoring controls and tone... etc) if one were to swap out any of those (but most particularly the first) for lower gain, say... 60x or 50x, you get only 600,000 or 500,000 times the signal, huge difference in terms of creating distortion in my preamp, but not such a huge deal when it comes to creating volume... Or... at least that's how I understand it.

I realize that I'm actually looking for "low gain" as opposed to "low wattage" as I found out at my local L&M. The example being: tiny terror combo, which sounded amazing, broke up before any really usable volume was attained vs a Blues Jr which stayed clean MUCH further. mind you, still sounded a little shy of "gigable"

I guess the search continues, though the Triwatt looks amazing. Not sure how confident I am that I could put it together, but I like the discount.

Again, I talk too much, sorry!
Nick


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## Thames (Oct 19, 2009)

ajcoholic said:


> Trinity Amps - Triwatt Custom Lead. Using 2 KJ66's for power, it has an insanely awesome clean tone, with a switchable extra gain stage if you want to get really dirty. I think its about 36 watts. You can also run it with two 6V6's for less volume and less clean headroom.
> 
> I use mine for gigging the bars around here, and it is just an amazing amp. Cuts through anything, has a great tone and takes all my pedals well.
> 
> ...


+1. Just bought one... coming in soon!


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## SkyFire_ca (Jul 16, 2007)

well, move on down to NS so I can try it out 

and... what was that about a YCV15 Blue? really different from the YCV20?


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## SkyFire_ca (Jul 16, 2007)

hmm this is an after-rehearsal update (though, somewhat unnecessary)
specifically to the YCV40 owners out there... Running at 9:00 or lower on the clean channel volume (about 2 of 10) with my hamer echotone (335) with gibson 490's (set low) I was getting distortion on open chords...
this seem normal or think there could be something wrong with the amp?

just sayin...


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## Brennan (Apr 9, 2008)

I'm going to go against the grain a bit here, and suggest checking out a solid state amp (cue cries of horror).

The rhythm guitarist in my band has one of these, and it's actually a pretty impressive little box. 250 watts of clean headroom, and combined with the 1x12 cabinet the thing weighs less than a ham sandwich. Now, I won't say that you'd never be able to tell the difference between it and a DRRI (and I won't be trading in my Peters anytime soon), but I do cry a little every time I see him make a single trip from the car to the stage, while I'm lugging around all my gear.


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## Stefano (Aug 31, 2009)

Hands down, Mesa 5:50. It's got 5 Watt or 50 watts. Great sounding amp.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Fender Deluxe Reverb, 22w of pure clean heaven...look no further... and very light as well..


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## Andy (Sep 23, 2007)

SkyFire_ca said:


> well, move on down to NS so I can try it out
> 
> and... what was that about a YCV15 Blue? really different from the YCV20?


Yes. More clean headroom, a much better sounding drive channel, and more bottom end. I wouldn't say it will keep up with a Deluxe in terms of headroom, but it has more than most 15 watters I've played. Fantastic drive channel, too.

Also, a Traynor YCS90. 45 pounds, will stay clean to absolutely gratuitous volumes. I've never wound out a twin, but I can't imagine it getting any louder and cleaner. The overdrive is pretty good, too.


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## SkyFire_ca (Jul 16, 2007)

jeez... gives me a whole batch of new things to try... old-school fender might be just the thing for me though...


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## SkyFire_ca (Jul 16, 2007)

bumping my own thread but...
Tried a new deluxe reverb today and I think everyone's right... it's just about what I'm looking for. It had the right specs, super loud (for me) nice and clean. decent weight too, and a good size. 40 some lbs is far more manageable.. especially considering I was hauling a mesa recto cab (65lbs +) it's even a little lighter than my ycv40.

the RI was missing a little "magic" from the sound though. might be worth looking for an older SF or a custom build. could probably shave some weight with a pine cab or NEO speaker too (if necessary)

It looks like (for now) I've found my replacement... thx for the suggestions folks! now the hard part... the $$.


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## poolboy (Nov 25, 2009)

i don't know guys, low watts with any kind of volume( light drummer ) to me means distortion. 15 to 20 watts i mean.. try 30 to 50 and thats the magic..
you can mic it out and have as much clean headroom as you want. put a pedal in front of it for a little dirt. of course thats my opinion. i use either a classic 30 or 50 or my vintage 50 watt traynor. good luck ! Its only money lol.
, kkjuwkkjuw


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