# Playing fast



## Fuzzy dagger (Jun 3, 2016)

I can’t solo super fast. I’ve been a semi professional musician for 40 years, always played lead guitar or shared that role and always had a nagging feeling that I couldn’t play notes as fast as some of my contemporaries. I’m a fairly smooth player in the folk/country/rock and roll vein and it used to bother me that I couldn’t “shred”. And then I realized recently that none of my influences played super fast; Clapton, Duane, Keef, Costello, or any of the guitar players from the 50’s- 70’s. I’d love to be able to chicken pick like Danny Gatton or riff like Tony Rice, but that’s not in the cards.

I’m relaxed now, I’m comfortable with my style. I focus more on melodic playing and making my solos really fit with the song. I’m still always learning but not thinking so much about notes per second. Thoughts?

gratuitous picture of Joan Jett


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## CathodeRay (Jan 12, 2018)

Fuzzy dagger said:


> I’m comfortable with my style.


You found the Grail.


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

"I’m relaxed now, I’m comfortable with my style. I focus more on melodic playing and making my solos really fit with the song. I’m still always learning but not thinking so much about notes per second."

Correct approach IMO.

Like most things done for pleasure, it's not about the speed


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I'm split. There are many things I can play fast yet I do like the tasteful\soulful slow playing. I do a lot of Albert Lee, Ray Flacke and Tony Rice type playing. But no matter how hard I try there are still limitations. Some of the guys I see on youtube just blow me away with their country\bluegrass shredding. To sum up you have to be comfortable and play to your strengths.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I wish I could play faster, but that would require diligent practice.

I hope I'm able to do decent renditions of the songs I choose to play and can throw together some tasty licks when improvising.

Fast picking has always seemed difficult to me.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I wish I could play faster, but that would require diligent practice.
> 
> I hope I'm able to do decent renditions of the songs I choose to play and can throw together some tasty licks when improvising.
> 
> Fast picking has always seemed difficult to me.


Shredding is a lot of work for little reward. Its great in small doses but can get pretty boring fast. I remember the first time I heard Yingwie. I was blown away. For about 5 minutes. Then he didn't stop. Just kept going with one blindingly fast lick after another. I find more interest in a solo that incorporates the speed sparingly with lots of taste and soul in between. 
Brad Paisley is another example. His first 5 or 6 albums were filled with tasty solos and a good mix of fast licks. Now I find he's just fallen in to indulgent wanking to impress the young. Not real inspiring.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Learn to tap for the ole razzle dazzle.


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## TheGASisReal (Mar 2, 2020)

I've noticed that pianists, horn players, etc don't tend to label fast passages as "shredding" like guitarists do. At the end of the day, you're supposed to be playing music. It either sounds good, or it doesn't, and even that is dependant on the set of ears that's making that judgment. There is truth behind the notion that you can say a lot with very few words or phrases in your vocabulary, but there's also truth in chops giving you a considerable advantage in ease of execution.

Tl;dr, find your voice on the instrument and don't worry too much about how others sound.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

It is very difficult in my opinion to play blindingly fast and still sound musical or soulful. It is possible. I know it's not impossible. Al DiMeola has done it on occasion so I know it can be done; just not by the guys we usually think of when we think of speed. I watch guys like Vai and Satch and I am astonished by their length of reach, their accuracy and their amazing speed but their music does nothing for me. I enjoy watching them play but it's just a visual show for me. The audio is only there to confirm they are actually playing a guitar. It's not there for me to enjoy or marvel at or be moved by because that kind of music does not have that capability. My guitar heroes are guys who do not show off like, "look at me" but they play what is needed for the betterment of the song rather than to call attention to themselves. Gilmore, Haynes, Bramhall, to name a few. If you have come to the realization that speed does not equal art then I would say you've hit an extremely important milestone in your life. Congratulations.

The preceding was my opinion.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Fuzzy dagger said:


> I focus more on melodic playing and making my solos really fit with the song.


There's room for you in my band.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Al DiMeola was the first guy I heard who could play like that. I later heard Django Reinhart and others equally impressive.

These days, I think Paul Gilbert is a noteworthy player, able to meld tasetful rythmic playing with ridiculous chops.

It's not the only thing, but it IS a cool thing.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Practice doesn't seem to affect speed for me, only smoothness. But I don't really consider it one of the more valuable asserts in the mix, just something you can pull out from time to time in small doses. Variety of the lines, relevance and timing are far more important IMO.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

I chased the speed demon in high school -- I can thank "Crossroads" for that. I got pretty fast, but it was all I knew how to do, and it wasn't like I was playing Eb dominant Phrygian minor with an extended 3rd -- just flailing. I was fast but not skilled But, it is part of me as a player, so I still let fly now and then. 

Hell, it's fun, so why not? I am mostly playing in my basement. I don't need to consider the larger implications -- I am just playing for my own enjoyment....playing GUITAR. Get your filthy minds out of the gutter.


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## Rumble Bass (Aug 17, 2006)

In my opinion its more important to play precisely than fast (unless you can do both). What I mean is being able to solo and bend the notes to perfect pitch with the right amount of vibrato, etc.. And to play in time. So many guitar players will try to play fast and are out of time and not hitting the bends or playing with a natural sounding vibrato and so on. To me that should come first before playing super fast (if at all).


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## Rumble Bass (Aug 17, 2006)

Also - if you want to play fast and struggling to get there, your pick makes a huge difference. Smaller, thicker and harder is better IMO. lol


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

Rumble Bass said:


> Also - if you want to play fast and struggling to get there, your pick makes a huge difference. Smaller, thicker and harder is better IMO. lol


And when I was at my fastest? Fender thins. Comfort is so important.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

SRV did a nice job of it.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

When I was in my twenties I could play fast. In my sixties not so much.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

If you can play what you want, when you want, then you're good. Phrasing, note selection and sense of time are much more important than playing too many notes. 

Technique is just a means to an end. But if it's the sole focus then it probably won't sound all that musical. A good solo has an arc to it. There's a beginning, middle and end.

Technique has never come easily to me, but I've kept at it. It helps me get into the flow more easily if I'm writing or jamming with people. The less I have to think about the physical aspect, the more easily I can translate what's in my head.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Feb 19, 2020)

I've always thought the notion of playing 'fast' and 'shredding' as not mutually exclusive. Michael Angelo Batio is a fast as hell player, but SRV could shred.

To me, 'shredding' is more than playing fast and more critically it's more important than playing fast. The best of the best have the musical know-how and the physical dexterity to express it exactly how they want to - generally speaking if you're one of the .001% that are on that level you typically have the chops to play at 'high speed' - relative to what you're playing, of course. If you like what you do and how you express it then you've pretty much made it, in my opinion. Having said that, I think one should always try to reach the next level, to not plateau. That applies equally to musical knowledge and physical training. If you catch yourself playing the same things consistently without any different musical flavor or at the least not more accurately / cleaner, _then_ I think something is up.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Shredding is what got me interested in guitar in the first place. Never cared for guys that just bend a high string for 10 seconds, made an "O" face, and said they were playing with feeling....that gets as tiresome and disingenuous as any 80's shredder.

that said, theres some shredders I like more than others. George Lynch, Brad Gillis, Vito Bratta, the queensryche guys, nuno bettencourt, John sykes, Reb beach, Viv Campbell, Glenn Tipton and others, I can listen to all day long.
Dimebag, Kirk Hammett, the Slayer guys, Vinnie Vincent, Satriani, not so much. Even EVH could overdo it sometimes, IMO he walked on the edge of vomitting notes to suddenly playing a catchy melody. Same with Zakk wylde.

For me, its a balance thing...constant speed is boring, and there needs to be some sort of melody...the solo needs to tell a story. The solo from Hotel California gets it right, IMO. Its not shredding but its not boring prolonged bends like Clapton or BB King either.

If you want to play fast but cant....take heart....Glenn is doing a pretty good job here in spite of his age and Parkinsons, although hes definitely missing some notes. From about 2:00


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## Stephenlouis (Jun 24, 2019)

I use words in my head to play solo notes on my guitar, may sound weird but for me it works and forces me to make phrases that make sense. I am not a super fast talker  Im fingerstyle, only use a pick occasionally for rhythm when I really want to attack the strings. I am not fast like this, not at all.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

When playing slower you get to really express your music i find. Fast playing is for kids not us seasoned guitarists LOL.I also dont consider myself a fast player and i get tons of compliments on my tone.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Stephenlouis said:


>


props to you for posting the great kat. she's one of the most truly frightening women i can think of. i didn't know that anyone else on the planet even remembered her. she is both my ideal woman, and my nightmare, all at the same time.

****

can i play fast? no. 
COULD i play fast? yes. 
i just don't feel like working that hard. i don't want it bad enough to put in the hours. 
there - i said it, and i'm not ashamed of it.
if you can play slow, you can play fast. it's just a matter of learning the techniques. no one without injuries gets to have excuses. if you can't do it, it's cause you don't want it bad enough.


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## Fuzzy dagger (Jun 3, 2016)

That’s true. I work on my lines when I’m noodling, to get faster and smoother. But now I focus more on phrasing. I’ve always idealized Duane Allman. I love his style; bluesy, jazzy, melodic.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

Rumble Bass said:


> Also - if you want to play fast and struggling to get there, your pick makes a huge difference. Smaller, thicker and harder is better IMO. lol


This is how I role in life! lol Fender thick year drops, and I never could play fast. I don't want to shred, just play quick runs.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

It's ok, nobody wants a guitar solo anymore.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

Fuzzy dagger said:


> I’ve always idealized Duane Allman. I love his style; bluesy, jazzy, melodic.


LOVE that guy!


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## Honeybee124 (Apr 16, 2021)

Lots of great stuff here thank you


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

This is one example I like a lot. Paul Gilbert is capable of shredding your face off, but he uses a sweep for an accent in the quite musical solo. Solo starts at about 4:15.


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## Brian Johnston (Feb 24, 2019)

I can play fast if I practice it, which I do not. I'm very much into melody and phrasing (relative to my skills, lol). I can appreciate, but cannot get into shredding. OK for the odd listen, but I prefer solos like Comfortably Numb and Stairway to Heaven. The one thing I cannot do, perhaps due to small hands, is play the guitar like a spider crawling all over it. You need that stretch... piano fingers.


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

Mark Knopfler has been the player who I've grown to admire for speed when needed, but more so for the feelings and expression that ooze from his phrasing. His hybrid finger playing style has much to do with that I'm sure.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The problem with playing fast is you end up working through all your ideas in less time. Now, if you_ have _a lot of ideas, that's less of a problem. But if one has a limited pool of ideas (and most of us are like that), you run out of them and start repeating them sooner. There are plenty of players I respect and admire who can quickly run out of ideas and find themselves essentially dog-paddling mindlessly on the fretboard until a new idea comes along. That's not much fun for anyone.


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## slag banal (May 4, 2020)

Some folk rip and roar, some folk b'lieve in signs
But if you want me, baby, you got to take your time
Because I'm built for comfort, I ain't built for speed
But I got everything all the good girls need.
(W. Dixon)


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## Roots-Picker (Dec 29, 2017)

Okay, this is going to *seriously* date me, but one of the earliest fast guitar solos that got me inspired was seeing Alvin Lee of 10 Years After playing “I’m Going Home“ at Woodstock. After that it was hearing Terry Kath of Chicago play “25 Or 6 to 4“. I learned those two solos pretty much note for note because I wanted to impress folks and establish myself. (Also loved the early Johnny Winter albums, but who didn’t?!...)

I then realized it was the tasteful phrasing that the really good players possess to mix long, flowing lines with inspired bursts of faster notes that really turned my crank. My tastes have always leaned toward blues flavoured players, and still do. However I do appreciate many of the modern fast players mentioned throughout this thread, even though I don’t (and can’t) play those styles. (I’ve always admired John Petrucci’s impeccable precision, taste and tone...OK now I'm totally rambling...) ‘Nuff said!


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## pat6969 (Feb 4, 2013)

I used to want to play fast but now I love this style of soloing. One of my top 5 solos at the moment. Ian has some tasty licks. Starts about 4:30.


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## GuyB (May 2, 2008)

Nobody here remembers Paco di Lucia or Al Dimeola ? Incredible speed and... they made superb "music" !


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

the general theme so far seems to favor the contrast of fast vs slow. the moderation of each, compliments the other in a sort of push/pull kind of way. it's why black sabbath almost always had softer parts in their heavy songs.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

GuyB said:


> Nobody here remembers Paco di Lucia or Al Dimeola ? Incredible speed and... they made superb "music" !


Yeah, I always found it amusing watching Al and John M take their very linear cold (to me anyway) solos and then Paco played with soul and grace- and speed. He was great.


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## Dazza (Jan 16, 2011)

While playing fast has long been a hurdle for generations of inspired guitar players I reckon most the current youtube guitarists with their well rehearsed, perfect renditions of iconic solos would likewise stumble if they simply stood up.

The curve used to be:
Learn some open chords
Manage a barre chord
Learn to solo
Stand up and repeat challenges 1 - 3

Unless you like playing guitar at chest height as per 60's fashion. Though it's dead tiring holding up your fretting arm for extended periods.

Its a different generation. 40 years ago we learned guitar to get together with others and jam our favourite tunes in basements or high school functions. The early 80's being full of guitar driven rock/metal to inspire. The intention now seems to be to sit and play in front of a camera and then connect with others.

I saw Yngwie, Vai, Satch as they hit the scene. All totally impressive. I lost interest as I got older and found more character in 60's / 70's players. I prefer being moved by music to being impressed by it. My own abilities likely do neither, but it's still my #1 love above all else.

Daz


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

I like watching Roy Clark play fast (12th Street Rag), the man was incredible; a fine entertainer and an excellent musician.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

cheezyridr said:


> the general theme so far seems to favor the contrast of fast vs slow. the moderation of each, compliments the other in a sort of push/pull kind of way.


And by playing the slow bits slower, you can still get the contrast while playing the fast bits slower. 😁


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

when you view diamonds, it's on a black cloth


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## HeavyMetalDan (Oct 5, 2016)

Man, how can anyone not like Satriani? To to say he is a shredder, well not really. I listened to Surfing with the Alien for like a year straight, lol
Vai, Passion and Warfare, awesome
And even Yngwie's first few albums were killer. (Listen to Icurus Dream Suite Op 4)
So, yes I love Shred in the right context.

I have no clue who the first real shredder was but may Ritchie Blackmore (listen to Stargazer) or Uli Roth (Sails of Charon)

And for metal, to me the band I seem to like most is Slayer these days.

Rock On 🪨 🎸 🤘


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

I have also struggled with this over my 25 plus years of playing and practising, I may have been a little faster in my 20's but still never reached a level I was happy with. I like to play along with the songs over the p.a. and it still irks me that I can nail 80% of the song but can't keep up with the faster licks in the solos. That sixtuplet run at the end of bark at the moon, 15 years after learning the song and its still not happening. Mind you I admit I havent dedicated the time playing slowly and building up speed as much in the last 15 years that I did in the early years. Life gets in the way.

Ultimately I'm pretty comfortable with my playing, timing and coordination between hands work well up to a point. Still a little sloppy at times but I play when I can and enjoy my time playing instead of practicing faster runs. 

I want/need to get back to playing with a band again. I think if I keep playing with myself I'm gonna go blind.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Moosehead said:


> . I think if I keep playing with myself I'm gonna go blind.


it's a myth. if it were true, i woulda been blind 4 decades ago


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

He's right, you won't go blind. But you WILL need to get skillful at shaving the hair off your palms. 

But, on the actual topic of the thread, I got to see Guthrie Govan a few summers back, when The Aristocrats played at a small club near my home. That guy has SOOO many ideas spilling out of his fingers, and he's able to spell them all out, articulately, no matter what the speed. Makes one think "Well, he's got that terrain covered. No need for me to do it. There's other fields to plow."


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

mhammer said:


> But, on the actual topic of the thread, I got to see Guthrie Govan a few summers back, when The Aristocrats played at a small club near my home. That guy has SOOO many ideas spilling out of his fingers, and he's able to spell them all out, articulately, no matter what the speed. Makes one think "Well, he's got that terrain covered. No need for me to do it. There's other fields to plow."


Yeah, the Aristocrats are really fun to see live. I was worried that it would be a boring wank-fest, but it was actually quite interactive, irreverent and fun when I saw them in Toronto.

Guthrie definitely raises the bar to a ridiculous height. But I don't find it discouraging. He sort of demonstrates what's possible when you have an open mind and a great ear. I find his phrasing and timing captivating and often unpredictable. He never leaves his phrases hanging. He always rounds them off so that they sound like complete ideas, no matter how complex. That's probably the biggest thing I've picked up from listening to him.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

pat6969 said:


> I used to want to play fast but now I love this style of soloing. One of my top 5 solos at the moment. Ian has some tasty licks. Starts about 4:30.


Huge fan of Ian's solo work as well as Big Wreck, especially Ghost!


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

Paul Running said:


> I like watching Roy Clark play fast (12th Street Rag), the man was incredible; a fine entertainer and an excellent musician.


Been Youtubing Roy lately and grew up watching him on TV. Check out Folsum Prison Blues, funny guy!


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

mhammer said:


> He's right, you won't go blind. But you WILL need to get skillful at shaving the hair off your palms.
> 
> But, on the actual topic of the thread, I got to see Guthrie Govan a few summers back, when The Aristocrats played at a small club near my home. That guy has SOOO many ideas spilling out of his fingers, and he's able to spell them all out, articulately, no matter what the speed. Makes one think "Well, he's got that terrain covered. No need for me to do it. There's other fields to plow."


Checked Guthrie out on a bunch of videos, that MF can play guitar!

I promised I would quit when I needed glasses, Nope!


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

Arduously practicing Fast playing will steal time from your melodic development and harmonic understanding. 

my motto is that if you can’t whistle it, people will likely not remember it.

my early inability to not play fast forced me to play with phrasing and melody, which is the less prevalent skill found these days. Even the most memorable classical Music has “whistleable” melodies.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Grab n Go said:


> Yeah, the Aristocrats are really fun to see live. I was worried that it would be a boring wank-fest, but it was actually quite interactive, irreverent and fun when I saw them in Toronto.
> 
> Guthrie definitely raises the bar to a ridiculous height. But I don't find it discouraging. He sort of demonstrates what's possible when you have an open mind and a great ear. I find his phrasing and timing captivating and often unpredictable. He never leaves his phrases hanging. He always rounds them off so that they sound like complete ideas, no matter how complex. That's probably the biggest thing I've picked up from listening to him.


Nice summary that captures what I like about him.

Myself, I try to model myself after Paul Kossoff: find the notes that matter and hang onto them. It's not "better" - try telling that to Bach - just another valid approach.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

sambonee said:


> Arduously practicing Fast playing will steal time from your melodic development and harmonic understanding.
> 
> my motto is that if you can’t whistle it, people will likely not remember it.
> 
> my early inability to not play fast forced me to play with phrasing and melody, which is the less prevalent skill found these days. Even the most memorable classical Music has “whistleable” melodies.


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Danny Cedrone, guitar solo in Rock Around the Clock.......fast, crisp, clean, memorable..... what else do you need?


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

I think, for many of us, we need to accept the fact that the coordination required to play fast, technically accurate lines just will never happen. I would compare this to athletics. You may be able to run fast but you will never, no matter how much training and time to dedicate to the sport, you will never beat Andre De Grasse. There are literally thousands of kids in track that think they are fast and have a chance but will never even get close to making a national team let alone making it to the final in international competitions.
When I was in high school and learning to play guitar, there was one guy I can think of that could nail those 32nd and 64th note runs. This was back in the late 70s and we were all listening to Return to Forever and lots of fusion, prog rock and other music that required a high level of skill and coordination. He was just a natural "athlete" on the guitar. At age 14 or 15 he could do Al Di Meola runs. He eventually dropped guitar and went on to be a hard rock/metal singer which I think presented more of a challenge to him. The struggle perhaps makes the art more real.

What I _have _found while trying to play faster is that if you know what you are playing in your brain, and where to find it on the fretboard, the pursuit of speed doesn't seem to matter as much. When your brain knows where it's going, your fingers tend to follow.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

So true zztomato, my brain often gets lost in some of the faster runs in solos when played up to speed. I've slopped my way through them (wah helps lol) when I lose the note for note timing and catch up when I get to the spots that I do know better. Here's a great example of a lick I think most of us have played incorrectly or used wah to cover up a bit. The second half is what I need to spend time on at a slower speed until I can play it up to speed. I've probably been playing it half assed for 20 plus years lol. I think its time i changed that.
Timing and coordination between hands is key.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

zztomato said:


> I think, for many of us, we need to accept the fact that the coordination required to play fast, technically accurate lines just will never happen. I would compare this to athletics. You may be able to run fast but you will never, no matter how much training and time to dedicate to the sport, you will never beat Andre De Grasse. There are literally thousands of kids in track that think they are fast and have a chance but will never even get close to making a national team let alone making it to the final in international competitions.
> When I was in high school and learning to play guitar, there was one guy I can think of that could nail those 32nd and 64th note runs. This was back in the late 70s and we were all listening to Return to Forever and lots of fusion, prog rock and other music that required a high level of skill and coordination. He was just a natural "athlete" on the guitar. At age 14 or 15 he could do Al Di Meola runs. He eventually dropped guitar and went on to be a hard rock/metal singer which I think presented more of a challenge to him. The struggle perhaps makes the art more real.
> 
> What I _have _found while trying to play faster is that if you know what you are playing in your brain, and where to find it on the fretboard, the pursuit of speed doesn't seem to matter as much. When your brain knows where it's going, your fingers tend to follow.


I agree, I believe that the challenge is what keeps you going. We all have a natural talent for something, it may not be the talent that we wished for however, it's up to you to pursue it.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

Milkman said:


>


Hey Mike, thanks for that, awesome stuff. I enjoy whistling as well. I do both the pucker and the teeth techniques. 

btw, My speed has increased alot since finding the v-picks guitar picks. their new one, the Jester, with gold sparkles inside is the bomb!!! 








Enjoy amigos.


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## AJ6stringsting (Mar 12, 2006)

Playing fast is only a small portion of a well rounded guitarist , as are guitarists that play with great emotional taste. Both require equal skill.
I can tap like EVH, Vai or Satriani, play fast like Malmsteen or John Sykes .... But I cut my teeth on people like Hendrix, Trower, Gary Moore, Neal Schon and SRV .... You can't stereo type people.

This joke says it all about guitar players.

How many guitarists does it take to change a light bulb ?

Five, , one to get up, change the light bulb and four to sit around , saying how much they could have done it better.


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## Fuzzy dagger (Jun 3, 2016)

How about:
What’s the difference between rock musician and a jazz player?

a rock musician plays a few notes to thousands of people, and a jazz musician plays a thousand notes to…


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## Fuzzy dagger (Jun 3, 2016)

That joke was funnier before hip hop became the dominant music.


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## AJ6stringsting (Mar 12, 2006)

A guitar solo that really blows my mind is Neal Schon's " Who's Crying Now ", Gary Moore's " The Loner " .... Those solos are just as captivation as EVH's " Eruption " in my book.

I can see why people are critical of Yngwie Malmsteen .... I know many of his songs note for not, but I stopped listening to him after the " Odyssey" LP .... Seems like he hasn't evolved compositionally since then .... Made me lose interest in his music. But he is still respected by myself and is a major influence to me.


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## AJ6stringsting (Mar 12, 2006)

I am a an 80's type of shredder, but I know how to let paused, silence, spaces and vibrato to add breath to playing .... sometimes less is more.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

IME, the difficult things with playing fast is to stay clean and in the pocket.

This guy for instance is a good example of what I found to be a tasteful mix of speed and melody, with stellar technic. I guess that's the level required when you jam with Tommy Emmanuel .


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I've spent my life trying to get comfortable with solos like in Colin James Voodoo Thang and My Sharona. I've trained the hands and they can do it 80% of the time at 80% of the speed - my picking hand has always been my downfall in doing better.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I find certain high speed guitar playing is like reflexes, you're born with an inherited 'ceiling of speed' and once you've approached that, it's very difficult to get much more. If you've watched quickdraw gun matches, you'll know what I mean. Those 10th of a second reflexes weren't so much learned as they were inherited, then refined w/ practice and equipment.

But one thing I've noticed missing in this thread is mention of the neck. A few of my necks have the typical 9.5 radius. The others have 10" - 16" radius necks and I'm probably 10% to 15% faster and smoother. And what's interesting is that I can play longer at those speeds without finger or wrist fatigue. Compound necks for me are superior for speed & precision, but that doesn't necessarily mean I like them better. It's just another argument to own more guitars.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

The John Petrucci video _Rock_ _Discipline_ doubled my speed in a matter of weeks. 

I still can't "shred". But where working on speed helped me, as an average player, is with organizing more finely chosen phrasing -- as smaller bits of rhythm became more accessible in my skill set.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

FatStrat2 said:


> I find certain high speed guitar playing is like reflexes, you're born with an inherited 'ceiling of speed'


It’s possible but in my experience many people reach a technical ceiling way before inherited limitations.
Playing fast is a lot of work, and even with a « correct » technic you have to work on that for a while. I know there’s way too much things I like with guitar to focus just on that.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

If you have the desire to develop your technique, then go for it. Like anything else you work on, it'll expand your horizons. Working on your technique doesn't mean you're focusing on becoming a virtuoso or shredder. It just means that you want to play a piece of music or what's in your head with greater ease and fluidity.

Other musicians work on their chops too as part of their regular practice. It's just part of their musicianship.

Also, don't be afraid to take the path of least resistance when it comes to your technique. Just because you're not alternate picking every note, doesn't mean you're cheating. Legato playing, hybrid picking, economy picking, or eliminating the pick entirely-- whatever comes naturally to you. 

(Edit: or use a mix of techniques, which can work really well.)


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Derek_T said:


> ...I know there’s way too much things I like with guitar to focus just on that.


I know many players as most do on this board. And I don't know anyone who focuses just on speed. I do think speed is an important weapon in the arsenal though.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

FatStrat2 said:


> I know many players as most do on this board. And I don't know anyone who focuses just on speed. I do think speed is an important weapon in the arsenal though.


Agree, I live by the rule : just learn what you need to play the music you want to play


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

It ain't how fast you get there it's what you do along the way.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

There's a story about Christone Kingfish Ingram when he was just starting. He could shred like everyone else his age. But when he started hanging around the blues guy, one told him, it's not all about the number of notes you play. It's how you play notes. He listened to him and look where he is now.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

All hearty well-meaning advice I'm sure, but this is a speed discussion and yes, it is how fast you go (cleanly). In this thread, I ain't slowin' down until the guitar catches fire.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

Whenever guitarists talk about speed, someone always pulls the emergency brake. 😁

Just kidding. I think it's perfectly fine to like both. I don't find them mutually exclusive.


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

For me it all depends on what I want to get out of it. . Some folks are hyper, some ain't and that's okay we all dance to a different drum. It's not that I can't go fast it's just that I don't want to.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Grab n Go said:


> Whenever guitarists talk about speed, someone always pulls the emergency brake. 😁….


Yes, exactly. Speed can be a healthy part of any guitarists' playing vocabulary when performed in moderation - just like anything. As I've posted before: there's 1mph and there's 100mph and lots in between. I certainly won't go into blues or ballad threads suggesting to speed things up.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

Grab n Go said:


> Whenever guitarists talk about speed, someone always pulls the emergency brake. 😁


So true, these threads often turn out the same and there’s always someone to pull the Gilmour card .
Except Gilmour did not became a legend because he was playing slowly but because of his exceptional sense of melody.
Speed is just one of many ways of expressing ideas the real talent is in how you put this ideas together.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I like speed. 
The guys I love play like fire.
I mostly just smolder.
If you get the tempo high enough you don't need to know all them fancy notes, whole notes all around


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Speed for speed's sake is kind of pointless, though sometimes I wish my tremolo pick stroke was quicker. I was crazy fast in my 20s but can remember how repetitive and unimaginative I was. A lot of time has passed and my hands aren't what they once were but my playing is much more imaginative. It's also much more satisfying.


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