# Live shows set lists.



## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

You people playing out, I would like to know how long your show is, and how many songs do you play, and also how many set lists do you make up.
You have to have breaks, so for eg, do you play 10 songs per set taking 1 break for a total of 20 songs..I am trying to get an idea on how to create a live set list and how would it normally go.with thanks.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Depends on the situation. 

When I played in original bands we would typically play a 45 minute set.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

Would you say all venues now indoor /outdoor have a sound guy.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I never played anywhere that didn't supply a sound guy but I was playing the Horseshoe, Hard Rock Cafe, etc.

I wouldn't say that was true across the board but generally if you are playing places that regularly have live music they will probably have their own sound guy and equipment.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

This really depends on whether you're talking originals in music venues, or covers in a bar.

In my experience in Toronto's cover band scene the last number of years, you almost never have a sound tech. In fact, it's becoming rare that you have a PA provided. It's pretty much DIY from the minute you get there to the minute you leave. Load-in, set-up, line check, sound check, play, tear-down and leave. It's a loooong night.

In terms of setlists, most places want between 45mins to 1hr per set. That's usually 12-14 songs. Breaks are generally outlined by the venue, but tend to be around 30mins these days. 

When we play places like the Bier Markt, etc, there's a contract you sign that indicated exactly what is expected of you. They provide set start and end times and also when and how long breaks are. Takes a lot of guesswork out of the equation! Other places are much more casual about it, but really it all comes down the owner/manager.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

hollowbody said:


> This really depends on whether you're talking originals in music venues, or covers in a bar.
> 
> In my experience in Toronto's cover band scene the last number of years, you almost never have a sound tech. In fact, it's becoming rare that you have a PA provided. It's pretty much DIY from the minute you get there to the minute you leave. Load-in, set-up, line check, sound check, play, tear-down and leave. It's a loooong night.
> 
> ...


I just cannot imagine the work involved bringing in a PA and setting up all the gear and doing sound checks, your looking at 1 1/2 hrs or more just to get to the point of playing..


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

We bring in our own P.A. In a lot of bars.
sometimes we bring in our P.A. Controller (tablet controlled mixer) and use their amps/speakers

3 Sets 13 songs about 1 hour long each.
start at nine.
go until closing or just before last call. Depending on the venue.

Private events we've done are more concert format.
2 sets of 1.5 hours with an 30 min intermission.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Rick31797 said:


> I just cannot imagine the work involved bringing in a PA and setting up all the gear and doing sound checks, your looking at 1 1/2 hrs or more just to get to the point of playing..


When you do it enough, you can get it done in less than an hour 

But yeah...it's a lot of work!


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

1.5 hours if all goes well, I've spent more time getting bugs out of a system than doing the gig itself. Damn pile of fun though when the gig starts!!


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

Here is a dumb question , you guys bringing your own PA, so how do you know what its sounding like out in the audience were it counts,without having a sound guy monitoring the show.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

I have a wireless kit so I can step out front and listen during sound check and during the gig. I also have a couple of friends who are usually in the audience who have permission to make adjustments to the board. Not ideal, but in the absence of a sound tech, it works.


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

Couple of our guys have wireless and a good ear.


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2017)

bw66 said:


> I also have a couple of friends who are usually in the audience ..


The only bands that I've gone to see lately are friends'.
If the sound is not right, I'll inform buddy and he adjusts accordingly.


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

Rick31797 said:


> You people playing out, I would like to know how long your show is, and how many songs do you play, and also how many set lists do you make up.
> You have to have breaks, so for eg, do you play 10 songs per set taking 1 break for a total of 20 songs..I am trying to get an idea on how to create a live set list and how would it normally go.with thanks.


For Blakkstone Hexx our standard length show is 4 hours.
3 x 50 to 60 minute sets with breaks in between. Sets are Generally 12 to 14 songs.
We gig in and around Calgary AB

Many Venues/Pubs/Bars don't have PA and Lights let alone a soundman. We own all our own PA and Lighting gear and I do our sound. Our Bass player is also a soundman and is very capable of pulling off sound for our gigs. When there is a PA and Soundman provided many Venues charge for bands to use it. Standard is $50 per night with no Soundman.

There are no dumb questions. I use a wireless and I go out front and walk around to do the FOH sound quality checks.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Rick31797 said:


> Here is a dumb question , you guys bringing your own PA, so how do you know what its sounding like out in the audience were it counts,without having a sound guy monitoring the show.


The short answer is "I don't care."

But seriously, I do as good a job as I can of making sure we sound great in soundcheck. I have a wireless unit on my guitar and a wireless mixer, so I can mix the soundcheck from out front. Once I'm happy, I set it and forget it. I won't touch the mixer again unless something goes horribly wrong. 

I get all kinds of people (servers, management, audience) telling me they want to hear more of this or that or whatever. I tell them I'll get right on it, make a show of touching the mixer, but not actually do anything. 

We don't get paid enough to hire a live sound tech, so as far as I'm concerned, you get my best effort before the show and then you get our best effort as a band during the show. 

I usually err on the side of loud vocals, loud bass, loud drums. Usually the keys and guitars are low in the mix. People don't dance or sing along to those instruments 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jaybo (Jun 3, 2010)

Lemmy Hangslong said:


> For Blakkstone Hexx our standard length show is 4 hours.
> 3 x 50 to 60 minute sets with breaks in between. Sets are Generally 12 to 14 songs.
> We gig in and around Calgary AB
> 
> ...



That's crazy - I didn't know there were that many places that didn't have a PA. Although in my past experience a bad soundman is worse than no soundman. And a lot of bars would just turn up the bass and drums and that was about all you'd get for the night anyways.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

hollowbody said:


> The short answer is "I don't care."
> 
> But seriously, I do as good a job as I can of making sure we sound great in soundcheck. I have a wireless unit on my guitar and a wireless mixer, so I can mix the soundcheck from out front. Once I'm happy, I set it and forget it. I won't touch the mixer again unless something goes horribly wrong.
> 
> ...


it sounds like a bad mix if you have bass and drums ahead of the guitars... my thought of a good mix, is Vocals first, then guitars, and bass and drums at the same level...


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I think he forgot vocals.

I lot of guitar players play so loudly that there is no need to put them through the main PA in a small club.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Lemmy Hangslong said:


> For Blakkstone Hexx our standard length show is 4 hours.
> 3 x 50 to 60 minute sets with breaks in between. Sets are Generally 12 to 14 songs.
> We gig in and around Calgary AB
> 
> ...


Wow, I'm used to lugging my PA around, but I've never had to pay to use an on-site PA! That's garbage.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Rick31797 said:


> it sounds like a bad mix if you have bass and drums ahead of the guitars... my thought of a good mix, is Vocals first, then guitars, and bass and drums at the same level...


Locals are #1 for me. My post says that, too 

It's not that guitars and keys aren't in the mix, but they occupy a different frequency range than drums and bass and typically they cut better with less power anyway (low freq needs lots of juice to get going). I set drums and bass first, make sure vocals sit nicely on top and then fill-in with guitars and keys. 

But yeah, the kinds of places we play have dancefloors and lots of people who want to dance all night. No one dances to guitar. I've come to realize that the guitar is probably the least-important member of the band to the average person in the audience - that is, until you whip out the solo to Sweet Child O Mine or something and people go crazy.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

hollowbody said:


> Wow, I'm used to lugging my PA around, but I've never had to pay to use an on-site PA! That's garbage.


I would happily knock $50 off our minimum to not have to slog PA gear in and out of the venue. (But I won't pay to play - if we're not getting paid, then we're not paying for your PA either!)


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

True a bad a soundman/mix can ruin a great band. Most times I find the house soundmen here in Calgary are very good.
There is a bit of a trend to have booming bass no mids and very little highs but that is slowly dieing off the further we get away from the late 90's early 2000's.
Yeah it is bullshit to pay for a house PA but $50 is attractive enough for most bands to say fuck it lets pay the $50
We generally use our system if no soundman is provided or we pay the $50 and bring in our own soundman who knows us well. It depends on the compensation but this does happen occasionally.


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

Jaybo said:


> That's crazy - I didn't know there were that many places that didn't have a PA. Although in my past experience a bad soundman is worse than no soundman. And a lot of bars would just turn up the bass and drums and that was about all you'd get for the night anyways.


There are a few Venues still left that provide everything. It's not like it was back in the 80's and into the 90's. Many don't but I would say its the true live music venue's that do and the numbers for these places are not growing


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

Bad sound guys reminds me way back in the 80s I went to a bar to see Nazareth, my it was so bad, people were leaving, I thought the band would stop playing but they kept going. its to bad they had so many good songs


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