# Do you accept EMT for a KIJIJI sale?



## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

Do you have any issue with accepting bank transfers for guitars that you're selling on KIJIJI? I assume that if the person is adamant on the EMT, it must be a scam! Or am I just being old. like my daughter calls me sometimes!! Cheers


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Why not would be my question. 

How would it be a scam if they're paying you, as long as you can confirm and accept the transfer prior to handing over the item?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I do emt for all my deals.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I prefer EMT over cash. I wait until the EMT is confirmed then they get the gear. If the deal is in a public place flashing large amounts if cash could be dangerous. Even if the deal is at my house having someone know that cash is there bothers me.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

i wait for it to clear before they can leave


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## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

sulphur said:


> Why not would be my question.
> 
> How would it be a scam if they're paying you, as long as you can confirm and accept the transfer prior to handing over the item?


There was a situation in Montreal last year, where a guy sold some running shoes ($500.00 a pair) on Kijiji. Was paid by cash transfer, a few days later was notified by his bank that the funds did not exist. He had to get the media involved so that his bank would reverse their decision on lifting the funds from his account!!


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I do EMT a lot of the time. Depending on the item. For a cheaper item like $100 or less, cash is cool. If it were a $1200 amp, EMT is better. Then it's right into the bank and not in my pocket. I also wait until EMT has gone through before departing from said sale. EMT deposit is common. I am never the one to ask about EMT deposit, but if they suggest, it's cool. Even though I am not a scammer, certain questions raise flags like asking for EMT deposit sends up warnings imo.


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## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

Kerry Brown said:


> I prefer EMT over cash. I wait until the EMT is confirmed then they get the gear. If the deal is in a public place flashing large amounts if cash could be dangerous. Even if the deal is at my house having someone know that cash is there bothers me.


What about people knowing how many expensive guitars are in your house?!


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## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

Budda said:


> I do emt for all my deals.


No dollar limit?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

John123 said:


> What about people knowing how many expensive guitars are in your house?!


Thats a fair concern. I dont let anyone in my house, due to covid concerns...at least thats what I tell them. Noones getting past the porch. Not even in the garage.
Only ever lost a deal due to that once, and he was a weird PITA guy. Sold it for the same $ a week later to a super nice normal guy anyway.

But thats not really an issue with EMT.

Happy to accept EMT, a little reluctant to send it unless its a long distance deal, so the only option.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

I've sold a half dozen guitars here in the past year all EMT. No hesitation and no issues. Just sold my motorcycle last weekend on Kijiji - buyer paid by EMT. They never get to leave with the item until it is deposited in my account.


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## CMCRAWFORD (Mar 17, 2014)

EMT is my preference over cash for sure. As mentioned earlier in the post make sure you give yourself time to allow it to clear. Sometimes it happens instantly and other times it has taken 30+ minutes for the notification to come through.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I do it quite often, never sold anything on Kijiji, but using other methods.
It works well.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I've accepted many EMT transactions for gear I've sold on Kijiji. From small things like pedals to high end guitars costing 4k and up.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

John123 said:


> No dollar limit?


Biggest deal I did was for $3,500. It was above his limit so he had to get his limit raised. We did the deal at my house. He did it on his phone. I got confirmation about five minutes later. I have a lot of clients who pay me by EMT so I have automatic deposit setup.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

CMCRAWFORD said:


> EMT is my preference over cash for sure. As mentioned earlier in the post make sure you give yourself time to allow it to clear. Sometimes it happens instantly and other times it has taken 30+ minutes for the notification to come through.


I sold a pair of home theater subs for $3k once. The guy told me on the phone he was coming to pickup and he wanted to pay with EMT. I told him to pay before he came as I've seen it take up to an hour to come through. Of course the putz doesn't. I guess he wanted to see the subs to make sure they were mint as I described which they were. So we sat there for 45 minutes waiting for the transaction to complete. Annoying but no way was I letting him leave with the speakers before it actually cleared.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Do you guys ever worry about there being some dispute with the seller about whether or not they received the EMT?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I don't let anyone in my guitar room. If they are looking at a specific guitar they can see it in the living room or the back deck. I bring the fishman loudbox mini downstairs if they need an amp. Although I doubt I have to worry. I know my hybrid would rip an intruders face off if they came into my house.

I once waited 45 minutes for a transaction to go through. Seems like the best combo is TD bank to TD bank. almost instantaneous. But mismatching banks can take a while

when you send EMt you get confirmation email and when it is deposited you get another email. so there should be no disputes.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

John123 said:


> There was a situation in Montreal last year, where a guy sold some running shoes ($500.00 a pair) on Kijiji. Was paid by cash transfer, a few days later was notified by his bank that the funds did not exist. He had to get the media involved so that his bank would reverse their decision on lifting the funds from his account!!



I don't understand how that is even possible except in the case of fraud (sending a transfer from someone else's account you've hacked, which is not the same as the money not being there). You can't send an EMT if the cash is not in your account. When you set up an EMT the money is IMMEDIATELY withdrawn from your account and held in a sort of escrow by Interac until it is accepted by the receiver. This is done specifically to prevent the kind of fraud listed above - sending an EMT and then using your cash on something else like bouncing a cheque. Then if the buyer fails to accept (rejected or wrong password too many times, or timeout) you have to cancel it on your end to get the money back.

Perhaps it was some other sort of transfer service but not Interac e(mail)Transfer aka EMT. That shit is safe as houses assuming you follow the repeated advice above re making sure the money has hit your account before letting the buyer walk away.



Diablo said:


> Do you guys ever worry about there being some dispute with the seller about whether or not they received the EMT?


Nope - you get an email to the effect that it has been accepted.



CMCRAWFORD said:


> EMT is my preference over cash for sure. As mentioned earlier in the post make sure you give yourself time to allow it to clear. Sometimes it happens instantly and other times it has taken 30+ minutes for the notification to come through.


Forget the notification - just check your account balance/transaction history immediately after accepting - you're already there in the app/website anyways. Instant. Every. Time.


That all said I still take cash and prefer it, especially when buying - I don't bank on my phone. When selling I will accept EMT because I'm usually at home and can use the computer.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Granny Gremlin said:


> That all said I still take cash and prefer it, especially when buying - I don't bank on my phone. When selling I will accept EMT because I'm usually at home and can use the computer.


This is the key for me. I won't bank on my phone. Lost phones are too easy to hack. I take my laptop which hardly ever leaves the house and tether it to my phone if I'm buying. My laptop is an encrypted Mac and it only leaves the house if I'm doing a deal. Paranoid for sure but I worked for many years securing networks and computers.


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## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

OK. I'm becoming more of a believer. However, what if the individual has only been on Kijiji of a few months, with NO reviews. Would that make a difference?


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

I guess I'm the outlier here, but I far prefer cash. Why? Because I can keep my buying/selling record off the books and away from my wife. 

Her: "Is that a new guitar?"
Me: "What? Did you see any transfers on the bank account? I think not."

Scene.


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## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

Granny Gremlin said:


> I don't understand how that is even possible except in the case of fraud (sending a transfer from someone else's account you've hacked, which is not the same as the money not being there). You can't send an EMT if the cash is not in your account. When you set up an EMT the money is IMMEDIATELY withdrawn from your account and held in a sort of escrow by Interac until it is accepted by the receiver. This is done specifically to prevent the kind of fraud listed above - sending an EMT and then using your cash on something else like bouncing a cheque. Then if the buyer fails to accept (rejected or wrong password too many times, or timeout) you have to cancel it on your end to get the money back.
> 
> Perhaps it was some other sort of transfer service but not Interac e(mail)Transfer aka EMT. That shit is safe as houses assuming you follow the repeated advice above re making sure the money has hit your account before letting the buyer walk away.
> 
> ...


TORONTO -- A Brampton, Ont. student who sells collectible running shoes says he was shocked when a $1,000 e-transfer payment he received was reversed by his bank.
“I always thought e-transfers were safe because Interac says once funds are deposited they can't be reversed,” Jaisal Samra said. 
Samra was selling four pairs of running shoes, including two pairs of Air Jordans, through the classified website Kijiji. A buyer agreed to pay him $1,000 in advance in an e-transfer which was automatically deposited into his bank account with RBC.
“I got the money instantly and it was in my account. Since I had the money, I decided to go ahead and give him the shoes he paid for," Samra said.
Samra said he met the buyer at a neutral location and dropped off the shoes, but he says days later his account was frozen.
His bank told him the e-transfer was fraudulent and the $1,000 he received would be reversed.
"E-transfers are not what I thought they were. I thought if you got the money in your account the money was safe," Samra said.
After Samra tried to get in touch with the buyer of the shoes he says he ignored his calls and emails.
When CTV News Toronto asked RBC why the funds were reversed a spokesperson said fraud is reviewed on a case-by-case basis.
“We remind clients when receiving requests for personal and banking information, they must take precautions … to ensure they are dealing with a trusted source when transferring or receiving funds,” he said. 
Samra said in the future he will be accepting only cash for shoes he sells.
“I’m sad I had to lose the $1,000 and the shoes and considering I’m a student this type of money is huge especially at a time (the pandemic) like this." 
Samra had been dealing with RBC for two months without success trying to get his money back, but after being contacted by CTV News Toronto, RBC decided to return the $1,000 to him. 
CTV News Toronto also reached out to Interac and asked why funds would be reversed once they were already deposited in someone’s bank account. 
While Interac said it was unable to speak to the specifics of the case, a spokesperson said customers should be vigilant regarding online transactions. 
“Customers should always be vigilant when they are transacting online and should ensure they are only transacting with trusted websites, vendors and people. “


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

John123 said:


> OK. I'm becoming more of a believer. However, what if the individual has only been on Kijiji of a few months, with NO reviews. Would that make a difference?


not really. his kijiji experience has no bearing on the security of the banking transaction.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

John123 said:


> OK. I'm becoming more of a believer. However, what if the individual has only been on Kijiji of a few months, with NO reviews. Would that make a difference?


I don't give much credibility to Kijiji reviews. If you're worried then don't do a deal with the person. Usually what I do when dealing with someone on Kijiji that I'm selling to is get them on the phone for a chat. Thats more for sake of the buyer as they're the ones handing out their money to a Kijiji seller. During a chat you talk a little about gear and each of the parties can tell that they aren't dealing with a scammer. I then will receive the EMT transfer and verify it. Then usually the next day is when I ship it. I don't believe there is any risk to the seller in these situations. All the risk is the buyer.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

John123 said:


> There was a situation in Montreal last year, where a guy sold some running shoes ($500.00 a pair) on Kijiji. Was paid by cash transfer, a few days later was notified by his bank that the funds did not exist. He had to get the media involved so that his bank would reverse their decision on lifting the funds from his account!!


Once the funds clear, that's a done deal.
If something funky happens after the fact, that's on the bank sort out with the buyer.
There should've been a NSF issued before the transfer, it is instant.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

John123 said:


> What about people knowing how many expensive guitars are in your house?!


Meet them in a mutual place, I've used Tim Horton parking lots many times.
I don't want strangers in my home either, not sure why some people do that.


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## aC2rs (Jul 9, 2007)

On Kijiji I would deal with cash only buying or selling.
Maybe I'm over cautious but better to be on the safe side.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

crann said:


> I guess I'm the outlier here, but I far prefer cash. Why? Because I can keep my buying/selling record off the books and away from my wife.
> 
> Her: "Is that a new guitar?"
> Me: "What? Did you see any transfers on the bank account? I think not."
> ...


So where are you getting the cash from then? Are you printing it?
If it's coming out of an account, she won't notice that? I don't get it.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

kijiji reviews are a scam. You don't even have to have a transaction to get a review. Just X number of messages will prompt you to leave a review. I got a negative review because the a-hole at the other end didn't like my price, even though it was the lowest on Kijiji and facebook. I just cancelled that account and started a new one...


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

I've recently sold a couple of things and got paid by EMT for the first times. I'm not a fan but it does work. As others have said best not to rush it. Agree on money and condition as soon as possible, they do the EMT then you sit around and chat about the weather or the Jets or guitars or help them hook up the boat trailer or whatever while you wait for it to clear. There's inevitably some frustration and both of you sitting there staring at your phones typing madly with your thumbs or they're on the phone with a spouse at home trying to get her to send it again and be clear on what the magic question is. At least with counting out cash from an envelope there's an established courtesy of how to do it so that everyone agrees and goes away quickly and happy. 
j


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## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

sulphur said:


> Meet them in a mutual place, I've used Tim Horton parking lots many times.
> I don't want strangers in my home either, not sure why some people do that.


I'll let people in the living room only. If they want to come back later, they have to deal with Luci, my Giant Schnauzer!!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

John123 said:


> No dollar limit?


As in above X value must be cash? Not at all.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

knight_yyz said:


> kijiji reviews are a scam. You don't even have to have a transaction to get a review. Just X number of messages will prompt you to leave a review. I got a negative review because the a-hole at the other end didn't like my price, even though it was the lowest on Kijiji and facebook. I just cancelled that account and started a new one...


That's the first that I've heard of that, and I've had a few lengthy convos in there and never had a prompt for feedback, only after pulling an ad from a sale.

I've often thought that some sort of feedback should be allowed for all the time wasting tirekicking falkes in there.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

crann said:


> I guess I'm the outlier here, but I far prefer cash. Why? Because I can keep my buying/selling record off the books and away from my wife.
> 
> Her: "Is that a new guitar?"
> Me: "What? Did you see any transfers on the bank account? I think not."
> ...


I don’t understand this mindset. If I couldn’t be honest with my wife she wouldn’t be my wife. We both have our hobbies and separate bank accounts for personal use. We both support each other’s hobbies and cheer when either of us is excited about something new. I can’t imagine life any other way.


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## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

sulphur said:


> So where are you getting the cash from then? Are you printing it?
> If it's coming out of an account, she won't notice that? I don't get it.


Maybe from other transactions!!


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## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

knight_yyz said:


> kijiji reviews are a scam. You don't even have to have a transaction to get a review. Just X number of messages will prompt you to leave a review. I got a negative review because the a-hole at the other end didn't like my price, even though it was the lowest on Kijiji and facebook. I just cancelled that account and started a new one...


That was when they introduced the review system. You have to go through a transaction now. When closing the add, you're prompted to answer who bought it and then you can do your review. But yeah, I got 1 lousy review fron a guy who didn't want to answer my specific questions about his guitar...


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

John123 said:


> Maybe from other transactions!!


That's a possibility I hadn't thought of, but if you sold some gear, that's a wash anyway.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

sulphur said:


> Why not would be my question.
> 
> How would it be a scam if they're paying you, as long as you can confirm and accept the transfer prior to handing over the item?


Oh, they're crafty.


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

sulphur said:


> If it's coming out of an account, she won't notice that? I don't get it.





Kerry Brown said:


> I don’t understand this mindset. If I couldn’t be honest with my wife she wouldn’t be my wife. We both have our hobbies and separate bank accounts for personal use. We both support each other’s hobbies and cheer when either of us is excited about something new. I can’t imagine life any other way.


Ok here we go. For starters, the comment was in jest, but over the last 1.5 years my covid hobby is buying/selling/trading gear. Gone though some 30 guitars, about ~$60k in value. Do I actually hide these? No. We have a shared bank account and often people will want EMT. I like dealing in cash because that is "fun money" and exists in a weird non-currency compartmentalization in my mind. Like monopoly money. But we are getting divorced for some unknown reason (sarcasm).

Edit: The off the books thing was for real though, if you break a certain $ value in p2p sales you're supposed to report to CRA. Also why I posted about using crypto to buy and sell previously.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

I’ve explained before and had many people tell me it’s impossible, but it’s not. Scammers know how to fool the bank computer and can easily send money via etransfer that’s not really there. Then your bank flags it as fraud and removes the funds from your account, or puts you into negative funds if you’ve already spent it. All the scammer loses is a fake bank account that they set up for that purpose. 

It happens ALL THE TIME. The guy from Montreal got lucky if his bank gave him back the money, but that’s a public relations thing, not a legal thing

I still accept etransfers, but not for high ticket items and not when there’s any fishy feelings involved - like being too eager to pay in advance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

Ricktoberfest said:


> I’ve explained before and had many people tell me it’s impossible, but it’s not. Scammers know how to fool the bank computer and can easily send money via etransfer that’s not really there. Then your bank flags it as fraud and removes the funds from your account, or puts you into negative funds if you’ve already spent it. All the scammer loses is a fake bank account that they set up for that purpose.
> 
> It happens ALL THE TIME. The guy from Montreal got lucky if his bank gave him back the money, but that’s a public relations thing, not a legal thing
> 
> ...


I agree 👍


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Ricktoberfest said:


> I’ve explained before and had many people tell me it’s impossible, but it’s not. Scammers know how to fool the bank computer and can easily send money via etransfer that’s not really there. Then your bank flags it as fraud and removes the funds from your account, or puts you into negative funds if you’ve already spent it. All the scammer loses is a fake bank account that they set up for that purpose.
> 
> It happens ALL THE TIME. The guy from Montreal got lucky if his bank gave him back the money, but that’s a public relations thing, not a legal thing
> 
> ...


In Montreal, that's a precedent.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I think its still exceptionally rare, but Banks will have to short that shit out (or own it if it happens) if they want ppl to continue to use their services.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

There is a few EMT scams to be weary of.

One is a fake email that makes it look like funds were deposited but they actually weren’t so if you do take EMT make sure to confirm dollars in your account not just a confirmation email.

Those usually come with a request to EMT you but someone else coming to pick up the item for them. 

For anything more than $500 I take cash only unless it’s someone I know or with a positive rep from a forum like here. 

I’ve never had someone say “oh no EMT I don’t want it” unless it was one of the many kijiji scammers.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Diablo said:


> I think its still exceptionally rare, but Banks will have to short that shit out (or own it if it happens) if they want ppl to continue to use their services.


That's the way I feel. They can go after the fraudsters that bilked their system.
If the funds were there for me to transfer, that's all I need to know, done deal.

That banks have the resources to either search them down or absorb the loss.
It wasn't my doing to screw their system, fix it if there are flaws.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

CMCRAWFORD said:


> Sometimes it happens instantly and other times it has taken 30+ minutes for the notification to come through.


30 mins for me as well when I sold my albums. But the buyer came in a restored '66 Galaxy that gave me a chance to really look it over.


sulphur said:


> I've used Tim Horton parking lots many times


Same. Or commuter parking lots along the 401.
I usually bring my 9v micro Marshall for testing.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

laristotle said:


> 30 mins for me as well when I sold my albums. But the buyer came in a restored '66 Galaxy that gave me a chance to really look it over.
> 
> Same. Or commuter parking lots along the 401.
> I usually bring my 9v micro Marshall for testing.


I use a free amp sim, headphones, and an Apogee Jam interface with my iPhone.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

I don't have a cell phone. Still old school land line.


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## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

tdotrob said:


> There is a few EMT scams to be weary of.
> 
> One is a fake email that makes it look like funds were deposited but they actually weren’t so if you do take EMT make sure to confirm dollars in your account not just a confirmation email.
> 
> ...


This is exactly what happened to me today; can't buy it, unless paid by emt.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Ricktoberfest said:


> I’ve explained before and had many people tell me it’s impossible, but it’s not. Scammers know how to fool the bank computer and can easily send money via etransfer that’s not really there. Then your bank flags it as fraud and removes the funds from your account, or puts you into negative funds if you’ve already spent it. All the scammer loses is a fake bank account that they set up for that purpose.
> 
> It happens ALL THE TIME. The guy from Montreal got lucky if his bank gave him back the money, but that’s a public relations thing, not a legal thing
> 
> ...


If people don't believe you, why not share one verified credible account of this happening. Sounds like a campfire tale to me.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

BlueRocker said:


> If people don't believe you, why not share one verified credible account of this happening. Sounds like a campfire tale to me.


I've spent some considerable time searching to see if I can see instances of being frauded with an EMT payment. The only thing I can find is that an email for the EMT gets intercepted and the hacker guesses the password and gains access to intercept the payment.
I can find no evidence that a scammer could send money, which then exists in your account and then find that it doesn't exist and the bank reverses the money out of your account. Kind of like when getting a cheque that has insufficient funds. If it were possible for a someones back account to be hacked and a scammer sent money from that account unbeknownst to the account holder it would be the responsibility of that account holder for the stolen money. Not the person who received the money. I don't think there is anyway to be scammed in a way that is being described in this thread. But its possible for the money to be stolen before it reaches the intended bank account.
Here is the CIBC warning about EMT fraud concerning intercepted E-transfers from compromised email accounts. If it were possible to receive fraudulent money from a recipient that later would get reversed by the bank they would warn you of that.






Learn about Interac e-Transfer® Interception Fraud | CIBC


Fraudsters steal and use personal information to divert e-Transfer transactions to their bank accounts. Use our tips to safeguard your e-Transfer transactions.




www.cibc.com


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

John123 said:


> This is exactly what happened to me today; can't buy it, unless paid by emt.


That's a different story. Your title of the thread suggest "accepting" EMT.

I used it once on Kijiji to send money, that's a real leap of faith.
The guy took longer to ship than he initially claimed, which lead me to think that I got scammed, but then sent the item eventually.
I'm not toally comfortable sending EMTs, but I will take one without issue.

I've used it all the time within this forum though, that's a different story.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

tdotrob said:


> There is a few EMT scams to be weary of.
> 
> One is a fake email that makes it look like funds were deposited but they actually weren’t so if you do take EMT make sure to confirm dollars in your account not just a confirmation email.
> 
> ...


This happened to me recently. Selling an amp and a guy from Edmonton wanted it. He was going to send his “friend” over to pick it up. Wanted to send me an EMT deposit, and his friend would bring the rest in cash. Seemed legit, so I just said I’d hold it for him, no need for a deposit. Then he started to inist on sending me EMT. I told him just to EMT his friend, and he could bring the cash. All of a sudden he found the exact same amp locally and didn’t want mine any more.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Sneaky said:


> This happened to me recently. Selling an amp and a guy from Edmonton wanted it. He was going to send his “friend” over to pick it up. Wanted to send me an EMT deposit, and his friend would bring the rest in cash. Seemed legit, so I just said I’d hold it for him, no need for a deposit. Then he started to inist on sending me EMT. I told him just to EMT his friend, and he could bring the cash. All of a sudden he found the exact same amp locally and didn’t want mine any more.


I know someone that it happened too as well.

My friend made the arrangement and got a notification of email that a transfer had been made to his account. As soon as he got the notification the friend was at the door demanding the item and he was in a hurry. 

My friend being nice handed it over and thought nothing of it but then decide to check his account and bang no money. Email was a fake but realistic enough looking interac copy saying the funds had been deposited.

I’m pretty sure there was a thread on here not to long ago with a member saying they had an EMT reversed by the bank and were out money. 

I don’t know how anyone could scoff at the OP being curious and cautious like these things never happen.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

You have to do the transfer though, it doesn't just go through on its own.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

BlueRocker said:


> If people don't believe you, why not share one verified credible account of this happening. Sounds like a campfire tale to me.


First off, i don’t care if people believe me. I’ve given a warning and it’s up to you if you take heed

Second, the big banks are extremely touchy with both personal information and giving out compromising information in general. How often do you hear about bank robberies? They happen very regularly but unless it’s violent or comes to the attention of the media it’s unreported. I’m not going to issue a “how-to scam Kijiji” article just for internet points and fame. 

I have no wish to cause trouble or harm to the people I know who work in banking by either sharing what I may have heard confidentially, or causing investigations into their work lives. Yes big banks have people who “patrol” the internet looking for either public relations issues or information leaks and they do respond accordingly. Even small matters like telling the name of someone who banks with a certain institution is a huge deal. Bankers are regularly trained (at least once a year) on the fact that releasing certain information (and other things) can lead to jail time for them. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

sulphur said:


> You have to do the transfer though, it doesn't just go through on its own.


Not if you have auto deposit


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

tdotrob said:


> Not if you have auto deposit


Ah, true. I never did opt for that, not sure why. Probably a good thing.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

John123 said:


> Do you have any issue with accepting bank transfers for guitars that you're selling on KIJIJI? I assume that if the person is adamant on the EMT, it must be a scam! Or am I just being old. like my daughter calls me sometimes!! Cheers


I do all the time. It’s best if they pay in advance though. Some banks take up to 30 minutes to send you confirmation. That’s an annoyingly long time to be making small talk with someone you may not like.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

sulphur said:


> You have to do the transfer though, it doesn't just go through on its own.


You can setup automatic deposit. I have this. If an eTransfer comes to my account it is automatically deposited to my account. I don’t have to do anything. That way if my email gets hacked I still get the money. All the hacker gets is a confirmation email that the transfer was deposited to my account. My email address is associated with my account in the Interac system. The only way that could change is if the Interac system was hacked or my bank account was hacked. I should add my bank account has two factor authentication plus a question before it can be accessed online. Two factor that uses a phone that has your email on it is pretty useless thus the third factor of asking a question. Make sure your questions are not easily guessed. E.g. don’t use your real pets name for the answer. Use a fake name like FUhackerFOff.


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## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

sulphur said:


> That's a different story. Your title of the thread suggest "accepting" EMT.
> 
> I used it once on Kijiji to send money, that's a real leap of faith.
> The guy took longer to ship than he initially claimed, which lead me to think that I got scammed, but then sent the item eventually.
> ...


Just to clarify, the individual didn't want my guitar, unless I accepted their emt payment.


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## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

guitarman2 said:


> I've spent some considerable time searching to see if I can see instances of being frauded with an EMT payment. The only thing I can find is that an email for the EMT gets intercepted and the hacker guesses the password and gains access to intercept the payment.
> I can find no evidence that a scammer could send money, which then exists in your account and then find that it doesn't exist and the bank reverses the money out of your account. Kind of like when getting a cheque that has insufficient funds. If it were possible for a someones back account to be hacked and a scammer sent money from that account unbeknownst to the account holder it would be the responsibility of that account holder for the stolen money. Not the person who received the money. I don't think there is anyway to be scammed in a way that is being described in this thread. But its possible for the money to be stolen before it reaches the intended bank account.
> Here is the CIBC warning about EMT fraud concerning intercepted E-transfers from compromised email accounts. If it were possible to receive fraudulent money from a recipient that later would get reversed by the bank they would warn you of that.
> 
> ...











Ontario man loses $1,000 merchandise in apparent e-transfer fraud


A Brampton, Ont. student who sells collectible running shoes says he was shocked when a $1,000 e-transfer payment he received was reversed by his bank.



toronto.ctvnews.ca


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

John123 said:


> Just to clarify, the individual didn't want my guitar, unless I accepted their emt payment.


If he is insisting on a particular way to pay and you feel uncomfortable just walk away. But if the guitar needs to be shipped then how else would you accept the payment. Just about every other way is easier than scamming with EMT. If he insists on paying by EMT and sending someone to pick up the item then I would ask him to do as was suggested by someone else here and tell him to EMT the person picking up and bring you the cash. Its quite simple for the buyer to arrange and if he doesn't want to do that tell him to take a hike.
For me I don't care if payment was a method that I felt confident in. If I feel uneasy about being part of a transaction, whether its irrational to feel that way or not, I'm out.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Kerry Brown said:


> You can setup automatic deposit. I have this. If an eTransfer comes to my account it is automatically deposited to my account. I don’t have to do anything. That way if my email gets hacked I still get the money. All the hacker gets is a confirmation email that the transfer was deposited to my account. My email address is associated with my account in the Interac system. The only way that could change is if the Interac system was hacked or my bank account was hacked.


Ya, I hadn't thought of that angle as I didn't opt for that option.



John123 said:


> Just to clarify, the individual didn't want my guitar, unless I accepted their emt payment.


Odd. Probably along the lines as what's mentioned above with auto deposit and the scam email.

I'll continue to deposit the transfer myself, it seems to avoid that gimmick.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Ricktoberfest said:


> First off, i don’t care if people believe me. I’ve given a warning and it’s up to you if you take heed
> 
> Second, the big banks are extremely touchy with both personal information and giving out compromising information in general. How often do you hear about bank robberies? They happen very regularly but unless it’s violent or comes to the attention of the media it’s unreported. I’m not going to issue a “how-to scam Kijiji” article just for internet points and fame.
> 
> ...


So it's the old "trust me, I know X, can't prove it". Handy that you don't care if people believe you so you'll take no offense when I don't. 

This is fake news, and worse yet some other uninformed person will repeat it as fact. For those wondering, this is the part I am specifically calling BS on:

_*"Scammers know how to fool the bank computer and can easily send money via etransfer that’s not really there. Then your bank flags it as fraud and removes the funds from your account, or puts you into negative funds if you’ve already spent it."*_


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

guitarman2 said:


> If he is insisting on a particular way to pay and you feel uncomfortable just walk away. But if the guitar needs to be shipped then how else would you accept the payment. Just about every other way is easier than scamming with EMT. If he insists on paying by EMT and sending someone to pick up the item then I would ask him to do as was suggested by someone else here and tell him to EMT the person picking up and bring you the cash. Its quite simple for the buyer to arrange and if he doesn't want to do that tell him to take a hike.
> For me I don't care if payment was a method that I felt confident in. If I feel uneasy about being part of a transaction, whether its irrational to feel that way or not, I'm out.


I thought the point of the thread was possibility of EMT scams which there most definitely is a few different ones in use especially on kijiji and FB.

Comfort level for me is easy, if I feel uncomfortable easy enough to ask for a phone call.

Most scammers I would say aren’t guitsr players they are just looking for expensive items to resell.

If unsure, have a phone call and get a feel.

I’ve sold a few items over kijiji accepting EMT where I shipped. A nice call and easy to tell I was talking to another enthusiast and also the buyer felt super comfortable after a call and sent the money. Disclaimer*** you can still get scammed anytime you ship/accept transfer even with a phonecall** just my preference for those types of deals.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

sulphur said:


> Ya, I hadn't thought of that angle as I didn't opt for that option.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I talked to my friend and he told me the email had a spot to enter password and hit accept.

Only way to be 100% sure is to see the funds in your account, not just from email confirmation.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

You're more likely to get in a car accident then scammed in an emt fraud. Are you worried every time you get on the road?

As has been said, if your gut says no just dont do the deal. Its that easy.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

tdotrob said:


> Comfort level for me is easy, if I feel uncomfortable easy enough to ask for a phone call.
> 
> Most scammers I would say aren’t guitsr players they are just looking for expensive items to resell.



Yes I already suggested that and its what I always do when selling. As for buying I never send money to Kijiji sellers ever. I just don't have the trust level of others. I have however sold many high priced items to Kijiji buyers, accpting EMT and never a problem. 
When I call someone Its more to give them a bit more comfort and we always end up talking gear, which I could talk about all day. 
One transaction I had on here, a guy was selling a Diamond Memory Lane 2 that I wanted. He was from Quebec and didn't have very many posts and I didn't know him. I messaged him and casually said, "I'd buy it if you had been here longer and I knew you". He said "no problem, I'll ship it to you and you check it out. If you still want it send me the payment". Lots of trusting souls out there but I'm not one of them.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

tdotrob said:


> If unsure, have a phone call and get a feel.


This. I’ve never sent money to someone I don’t know that I haven’t talked to on the phone. If they can talk about the item they are selling intelligently and answer detailed questions I am comfortable sending money. It has to be something I really want with no other way to get it though. I’ll buy new before I’ll send money to someone I don’t know. Accepting an eTransfer I have no problem. Sending without seeing item and the seller I am extremely leery.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

BlueRocker said:


> So it's the old "trust me, I know X, can't prove it". Handy that you don't care if people believe you so you'll take no offense when I don't.
> 
> This is fake news, and worse yet some other uninformed person will repeat it as fact. For those wondering, this is the part I am specifically calling BS on:
> 
> _*"Scammers know how to fool the bank computer and can easily send money via etransfer that’s not really there. Then your bank flags it as fraud and removes the funds from your account, or puts you into negative funds if you’ve already spent it."*_


Do you really think it’s that hard to temporarily fool an ATM? I’ve seen it happen by accident, not even on purpose. All it takes if for someone to have access to an ID (identity theft anyone?) to open an account for a couple days until it gets flagged. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Ricktoberfest said:


> Do you really think it’s that hard to temporarily fool an ATM? I’ve seen it happen by accident, not even on purpose. All it takes if for someone to have access to an ID (identity theft anyone?) to open an account for a couple days until it gets flagged.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



One time at the store I was managing someone used a stolen bank card to purchase items. They were able to bypass the actual Pin with a code they entered into the moneris machine. Our staff member reported that the guy punched in what seemed like 30 seconds worth of numbers and it spit out an approved receipt.

Of course I don’t have a reciept anymore to prove it so I’m sure BlueRocker will call fake news on it haha.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Ricktoberfest said:


> Do you really think it’s that hard to temporarily fool an ATM? I’ve seen it happen by accident, not even on purpose. All it takes if for someone to have access to an ID (identity theft anyone?) to open an account for a couple days until it gets flagged.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now you're changing the subject. You said scammers could "fool the bank's computers" or some such nonsense, and I called you out on it. I can't prove a negative, so I asked for one documented case that supports your claim. You have not provided one, because you don't want your secret squirrel friends in the banking industry to get in trouble, or to be snatched by the banking mind police. I get it - I used to watch the X files.

I am hoping that your unfounded claims are not influencing the decisions of others based on zero evidence from you.

My position is that accepting an EMT transfer is as good as a cash transaction once you confirm it hit your bank account, or in fact could be safer if you're not adept at spotting counterfeit currency. Others have pointed out email scams with fake deposit confirmations, which have nothing to do with the integrity of the Interac transfer system.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

BlueRocker said:


> Now you're changing the subject. You said scammers could "fool the bank's computers" or some such nonsense, and I called you out on it. I can't prove a negative, so I asked for one documented case that supports your claim. You have not provided one, because you don't want your secret squirrel friends in the banking industry to get in trouble, or to be snatched by the banking mind police. I get it - I used to watch the X files.
> 
> I am hoping that your unfounded claims are not influencing the decisions of others based on zero evidence from you.
> 
> My position is that accepting an EMT transfer is as good as a cash transaction once you confirm it hit your bank account, or in fact could be safer if you're not adept at spotting counterfeit currency. Others have pointed out email scams with fake deposit confirmations, which have nothing to do with the integrity of the Interac transfer system.


An ATM is a bank computer. 

A link was provided by someone else to a case in Montreal. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Yes I do. So far without issue.

I also accept random EMT’s…just for kicks.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

BlueRocker said:


> Now you're changing the subject. You said scammers could "fool the bank's computers" or some such nonsense, and I called you out on it. I can't prove a negative, so I asked for one documented case that supports your claim. You have not provided one, because you don't want your secret squirrel friends in the banking industry to get in trouble, or to be snatched by the banking mind police. I get it - I used to watch the X files.
> 
> I am hoping that your unfounded claims are not influencing the decisions of others based on zero evidence from you.
> 
> My position is that accepting an EMT transfer is as good as a cash transaction once you confirm it hit your bank account, or in fact could be safer if you're not adept at spotting counterfeit currency. Others have pointed out email scams with fake deposit confirmations, which have nothing to do with the integrity of the Interac transfer system.


Aside from whether you believe me or not, I’m curious about your endgame here. Why does me telling people to be careful in their financial transactions with strangers set you off?

I’m not saying don’t do EMTs. I use them all the time as they’re a convenient t way to send money. I’m also careful about who I buy things from, and how I sell things. 

Why does that upset you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

guitarman2 said:


> If he is insisting on a particular way to pay and you feel uncomfortable just walk away. But if the guitar needs to be shipped then how else would you accept the payment. Just about every other way is easier than scamming with EMT. If he insists on paying by EMT and sending someone to pick up the item then I would ask him to do as was suggested by someone else here and tell him to EMT the person picking up and bring you the cash. Its quite simple for the buyer to arrange and if he doesn't want to do that tell him to take a hike.
> For me I don't care if payment was a method that I felt confident in. If I feel uneasy about being part of a transaction, whether its irrational to feel that way or not, I'm out.


This was to be picked up, and I'll assume that they would be driving by at least a few banks, where they could take out cash. But no...now they don't want the guitar!!


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Ricktoberfest said:


> Why does me telling people to be careful in their financial transactions with strangers set you off?


If that's all you said, no problem. But you claimed in post #41 that money accepted by EMT can be reversed from your bank account. The OP was asking what others think about electronic transfers, and many of us use them as a secure means of payment for gear bought and sold. I will probably be sending one to another GC member tonight. If you're going to cast doubt on what is generally perceived as one of the most secure means of transferring money, it affects the confidence of other people who read your post. I don't think it's too much to ask to back up your claim - which you can't because it's a fantasy. I don't know what you gain by spreading misinformation.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

BlueRocker said:


> If that's all you said, no problem. But you claimed in post #41 that money accepted by EMT can be reversed from your bank account. The OP was asking what others think about electronic transfers, and many of us use them as a secure means of payment for gear bought and sold. I will probably be sending one to another GC member tonight. If you're going to cast doubt on what is generally perceived as one of the most secure means of transferring money, it affects the confidence of other people who read your post. I don't think it's too much to ask to back up your claim - which you can't because it's a fantasy. I don't know what you gain by spreading misinformation.


So you haven’t read the news story from Montreal? 

I’m assuming that you do your due diligence when dealing with even forum members, that’s all that I’ve advocated but I’m talking about Kijiji. Would you send off a guitar to someone across the country who had a 1 week presence here and no one to back them up?

Here’s a hint about banks, they never lose money over a client unless it’s either a public relations issue (like the guy who went to the media) or their afraid of losing millions in investments. They have small amounts they will pay out to keep people happy, but $3000 for your guitar that you handed to a stranger in a parking lot isn’t gonna make any headway with them. 

They can debit your account for any amount that you owe them, and the documents you signed when you got your account allow them to do so. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Finally found a use for the ignore button.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Ricktoberfest said:


> So you haven’t read the news story from Montreal?
> 
> I’m assuming that you do your due diligence when dealing with even forum members, that’s all that I’ve advocated but I’m talking about Kijiji. Would you send off a guitar to someone across the country who had a 1 week presence here and no one to back them up?
> 
> ...


This is very true. If a bank wants to take your money they can and will. You will have to work long and hard to get it back. That said they have a vested interest in making EMT payments seem safe. They are quite leery of reversing EMT transactions. Not saying they won’t but it would be unusual as people losing confidence in the system would cost them more. If there was a sudden increase in fraudulent transactions I would expect that to change. They will alway do what is in their best interest. They couldn’t care less about who that affects.

RBC stole thousands from my brother’s account when he passed. He did not have a will and there was no money to pay for an executor. He had an unsecured line of credit with RBC. They took what money was in his RBC personal account and kept the account open long enough to get his last CPP payment. When I told them they were an unsecured creditor and needed to get in line they told me I would have to take them to court to get the money back. They admitted to my face that I was correct and I should find a lawyer if I wanted the money. Luckily his RRSPs had named beneficiaries and were not with RBC so my nephews got a little bit from his estate.[/QUOTE]


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

John123 said:


> TORONTO -- A Brampton, Ont. student who sells collectible running shoes says he was shocked when a $1,000 e-transfer payment he received was reversed by his bank.
> “I always thought e-transfers were safe because Interac says once funds are deposited they can't be reversed,” Jaisal Samra said.
> Samra was selling four pairs of running shoes, including two pairs of Air Jordans, through the classified website Kijiji. A buyer agreed to pay him $1,000 in advance in an e-transfer which was automatically deposited into his bank account with RBC.
> “I got the money instantly and it was in my account. Since I had the money, I decided to go ahead and give him the shoes he paid for," Samra said.
> ...



Yeah, I did say except in the case of fraud (emphasis above added by me).

I would want to know the details of the nature of the fraud - like was it identity theft or what? It's pretty stupid of Interac to tell us to be vigilant and not explain how (e.g. check a person's ID to make sure it matches the name on the etransfer). 

I would also be suspicious of anyone willing to pay electronically _in advance_ of the exchange meeting - that's a red flag.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

BlueRocker said:


> Finally found a use for the ignore button.


Wait… are you Colchar’s alternate account? That would explain a lot. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PBGas (Jan 14, 2017)

Yup. I've done this. Sold a couple of my amps and cabs this way on Kijiji. It was the only method of payment other then meet and exchange that I would offer.

Many people pay before picking up. I've done it as well to avoid a wait time for the transfer that can sometimes happen. It isn't always a red flag.

A red flag would be if they want to pay you by other alternative methods that are not cash or e-transfer. That is when I avoid the transaction completely.

Unfortunately, there will always be someone who will figure out a scam and profit from it. Thankfully word gets around pretty quickly these days so they don't last long.


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## markxander (Oct 24, 2009)

I'll always accept EMT, but when buying a bigger ticket item I push for PayPal and offer to pay the fee. Mostly because I bought a guitar once that turned out to have been stolen, and I was SOL when the original owner found it and asked for it back. 

It would have been nice to have PayPal involved there or at least a credit card statement instead of just the EMT email.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

@Ricktoberfest you have 1 case versus all the transactions GC members have done. Thats not a strong argument for you.


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

In two recent cash deals I've done (I was buying), the sellers said they got counterfeit bills when selling on Kijiji/marketplace before. I'm shocked at how often people don't even look into the envelopes I hand them, let alone count it. 

A small amount of common sense, understanding the payment method and knowing when something sounds too good to be true would probably wipe out the vast majority of scammers. As terrible a person as it makes me sound, I consider most p2p sales scams as a stupid/greed tax, unless the victim is elderly.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Kerry Brown said:


> You can setup automatic deposit. I have this. If an eTransfer comes to my account it is automatically deposited to my account. I don’t have to do anything. That way if my email gets hacked I still get the money. All the hacker gets is a confirmation email that the transfer was deposited to my account. My email address is associated with my account in the Interac system. The only way that could change is if the Interac system was hacked or my bank account was hacked. I should add my bank account has two factor authentication plus a question before it can be accessed online. Two factor that uses a phone that has your email on it is pretty useless thus the third factor of asking a question. Make sure your questions are not easily guessed. E.g. don’t use your real pets name for the answer. Use a fake name like FUhackerFOff.


I turned off auto deposit after a frustrating incident.
about 6 months after I sold a set of kids golf clubs for $80 to a random on Kijiji, I get some weird emails from the guy saying he sent me $2000 by emt by accident and wanted it back. Ignored the first one as likely a scam (didn’t recognize the sender), another came in a few hours later, more serious sounding, it was the weekend, I wasn’t checking emails much.
at night I went into my account and there was a $2000 deposited. Still not sure it wasn’t some sort of scam like those mentioned in here. Dude is still sending emails, starting to have a threatening tone, first with police (I said, please bring them) and then with physical force (I said feel free to come, and kiss your loved ones, I’ll be ready). I wanted to go into a branch to discuss, but closed for the weekend.
I called RBCs call centre. Agent said, he could see the deposit and it looked legit. Sure wish I could have had that in writing . I said, can you reverse the deposit? He said no, I have to send the other a guy deposit. Very uncomfortable with that. But seemed to be the only way. A surprisingly primitive system.
i did end up sending it, and all went well, dude acted surprised when I told him to delete my info and if I ever hear from him again, he’d regret it….as if he hadn’t just ruined my weekend with his mistake and threats.I lost sleep on that weekend for nothing.

so, fuck auto deposit, I want as much control over my account as possible.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

Budda said:


> @Ricktoberfest you have 1 case versus all the transactions GC members have done. Thats not a strong argument for you.


Nobody said it happens with every transaction. It’s just something people should be aware of. Like any other form of payment, much of the security is in making the choice to interact with intelligence. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

I've accepted EMT for deals with people here on GC, but highly doubt I would do so for some random person on Kijiji.


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## Fred Gifford (Sep 2, 2019)

Kijiji is cash only, I've heard every scam in the books by some "potential" buyers .. I think not


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## Fred Gifford (Sep 2, 2019)

Diablo said:


> I turned off auto deposit after a frustrating incident.
> about 6 months after I sold a set of kids golf clubs for $80 to a random on Kijiji, I get some weird emails from the guy saying he sent me $2000 by emt by accident and wanted it back. Ignored the first one as likely a scam (didn’t recognize the sender), another came in a few hours later, more serious sounding, it was the weekend, I wasn’t checking emails much.
> at night I went into my account and there was a $2000 deposited. Still not sure it wasn’t some sort of scam like those mentioned in here. Dude is still sending emails, starting to have a threatening tone, first with police (I said, please bring them) and then with physical force (I said feel free to come, and kiss your loved ones, I’ll be ready). I wanted to go into a branch to discuss, but closed for the weekend.
> I called RBCs call centre. Agent said, he could see the deposit and it looked legit. Sure wish I could have had that in writing . I said, can you reverse the deposit? He said no, I have to send the other a guy deposit. Very uncomfortable with that. But seemed to be the only way. A surprisingly primitive system.
> ...


perfect example why cash only (no exceptions) works just great with Kijiji


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

John123 said:


> TORONTO -- A Brampton, Ont. student who sells collectible running shoes says he was shocked when a $1,000 e-transfer payment he received was reversed by his bank.
> “I always thought e-transfers were safe because Interac says once funds are deposited they can't be reversed,” Jaisal Samra said.
> Samra was selling four pairs of running shoes, including two pairs of Air Jordans, through the classified website Kijiji. A buyer agreed to pay him $1,000 in advance in an e-transfer which was automatically deposited into his bank account with RBC.
> “I got the money instantly and it was in my account. Since I had the money, I decided to go ahead and give him the shoes he paid for," Samra said.
> ...





sulphur said:


> Once the funds clear, that's a done deal.
> If something funky happens after the fact, that's on the bank sort out with the buyer.
> There should've been a NSF issued before the transfer, it is instant.


I still have a couple pages to read through and maybe this has already been mentioned...

I remember that story because I do a LOT of transactions through etransfer. Shoe thief is A, shoe seller is B, bank account holder is C.
C has his bank account info hacked by A (I use the term "hacked" loosely because it could have been something as simple as a friend or relative getting access). C makes a bunch of purchases and uses etransfer. Funds are legitimate and sale goes through to B. C quickly realizes his bank account is empty, bank looks into it and eventually reverses the transfers and B loses the money.

The bank's excuse was that they found no fault on the part of C so why should he be out? Well there was no fault on the part of B either so why screw him? If it's true that C had no fault in his account being compromised (which I doubt), then the fault lies with the bank and they should take the loss. Not B.

The seller could have been a little more diligent about knowing who he was dealing with to at least provide info to the banks or police after the fact.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

2manyGuitars said:


> I still have a couple pages to read through and maybe this has already been mentioned...
> 
> I remember that story because I do a LOT of transactions through etransfer. Shoe thief is A, shoe seller is B, bank account holder is C.
> C has his bank account info hacked by A (I use the term "hacked" loosely because it could have been something as simple as a friend or relative getting access). C makes a bunch of purchases and uses etransfer. Funds are legitimate and sale goes through to B. C quickly realizes his bank account is empty, bank looks into it and eventually reverses the transfers and B loses the money.
> ...


Probably so, but it's done all the time, within this forum for one.
As a seller, I'll have an address that the item was shipped to, that's about all I can go on at the best of times, whether it's on Kijiji or here.

An in person deal is different and cash might be a better option anyway. I have received EMTs locally though, only having their phone number.


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## warplanegrey (Jan 3, 2007)

I almost always do EMT. Sometimes it's risky, other times, not so much. Like if I'm selling, there's nearly no risk for me. I have auto-deposit set up so once I get the email, the money is in my account.

I just bought an amp from a guy in Quebec through EMT. There was definitely some risk on my end, but I did what I could to mitigate it. I had him send me a photo of his drivers licence (so I knew who he was and where he lived), and didn't provide the password to the transfer until he had sent a picture of the amp boxed up with my shipping info on it. 

But yeah, EMT is just so quick and easy, and it saves all parties a trip to the bank.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

The last few weeks, I’ve done over $10k in EMTs (all receiving) in amounts ranging from $3 to maybe $400. Most of them in the $25 to $50 range.

If I’d have done cash for even 25% of those, I’d have gone insane.


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## SmoggyTwinkles (May 31, 2021)

I've been buying and selling since the turn of the millenium and I'm just too old at this point (actually I'm only 43) to get into whatever new ways of selling or getting payment. 

I throw up an ad, set the price $20 above what I want for it (I'm talking stuff in the $100 to $200 range) and say come pick it up if you want it. 

It's working so far but it can take a few weeks for someone to bite. 

But I'd just rather do it the old fashioned way. 

I have something up on Reverb that I'm trying to get a silly amount for, it's been in someone's cart for over a month, please buy it! haha. 

No I don't accept anything but cold hard cash and don't even deliver anymore. You want it come and get it, or don't.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

SmoggyTwinkles said:


> I've been buying and selling since the turn of the millenium and I'm just too old at this point (actually I'm only 43) to get into whatever new ways of selling or getting payment.
> 
> I throw up an ad, set the price $20 above what I want for it (I'm talking stuff in the $100 to $200 range) and say come pick it up if you want it.
> 
> ...


How do you expect to get paid from your Reverb sale if they aren't local, which is more likely than not?

I just brought a guitar to a relative of a Kijiji buyer to a town about fifteen minutes out of the city.
No big deal and the buyer was easy to deal with. It saved trying to coordinate a meeting too, just drop it off.

It's not like all the requests I get from TO to bring it on down, a four hour drive.


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## SmoggyTwinkles (May 31, 2021)

sulphur said:


> How do you expect to get paid from your Reverb sale if they aren't local, which is more likely than not?
> 
> I just brought a guitar to a relative of a Kijiji buyer to a town about fifteen minutes out of the city.
> No big deal and the buyer was easy to deal with. It saved trying to coordinate a meeting too, just drop it off.
> ...


I was just saying the Reverb sale is different, it's for sale in Canada and USA and I will take PayPal.

Just smaller sales on Kijijji I got tired of someone from Orangeville wanting me to give them a better deal because they have to drive so far and gas is not cheap, or someone from downtown TO wanting me to meet them at the Pickering GO Station and shave an extra $20 off the price for their troubles, that I'm now firmly like "you want it? come and get it"

I work full time and some of the expectations people have out there about buying stuff is just so ridiculous. It's not the sellers responsibility to cater to the buyers lack of transportation or their schedule.

But I'm not talking about big ticket items which is a different thing.

edit:mixed up buyer and seller, fixed.


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