# Who are the best NOS tube dealers in Canada?



## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

I want to buy a few NOS pre-amp tubes to eventually try out in my incoming Kingsley Jester, and I want to avoid buying from the US, if possible. Thanks!


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## zurn (Oct 21, 2009)

I don't know if they are the best in Canada but thetubestore.com has some. They have great customer service.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

The only tubes that I picked up so far were from Atlanta, so...

This is an interesting article though...

What Every Player Should Know about NOS Tubes


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

I would second the Tubestore. 
There is also Brimar Tubes : BrimarTubes.com : and Mullard Tubes : MullardTubes.com (same guy). These are very expensive, but are the real deal. A little disclamer - he's a customer of mine.


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## Jeff B. (Feb 20, 2010)

Another vote for thetubestore. Their service is fantastic.


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## CSBen (Mar 1, 2011)

Send an email over to TheTubeStore, with the amp you plan on using them for, which position (V1, PI, reverb, trem, recovery stage..) and he'll get back to you quickly.

If you don't see something listed on their site, ask if they have some nonetheless. I picked up a pair of very sweet NOS GE brownbase 6v6 from Jan that weren't listed on their site.

If he doesn't have what you're looking for (as a side note - do NOT compromise by going with new production preamp tubes if you are in the market for NOS in the first place - they are worlds appart in quality), I would strongly recommend you get in touch with Brent @ audiotubes.com or Mike @ kcanostubes.com. Both have excellent selections as that's what they sell the most of. Shipping may be a tad more, but well worth it for two reasons: huge selection and the value of our dollar against the greenback right now!

Good luck in your search
B


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## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

CSBen said:


> Send an email over to TheTubeStore, with the amp you plan on using them for, which position (V1, PI, reverb, trem, recovery stage..) and he'll get back to you quickly.
> 
> If you don't see something listed on their site, ask if they have some nonetheless. I picked up a pair of very sweet NOS GE brownbase 6v6 from Jan that weren't listed on their site.
> 
> ...


I'm actually putting them (pre-amp tubes) in a pedal rather than an amp... (Kingsley Jester). Hoping to experiment with some of the cheaper NOS tubes first. Thanks all for the help.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

What would be the benefit to buying new old stock as opposed to, well, new new stock? Is it an environmental coincern that has forced tube makers to comprimise the quality?

Just curious.


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## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

Milkman said:


> What would be the benefit to buying new old stock as opposed to, well, new new stock?


Better tone.



Milkman said:


> Is it an environmental coincern that has forced tube makers to comprimise the quality?
> 
> Just curious.


Not sure why, but I doubt it has anything to do with the environment or a compromise of quality.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Although I agree that the tubestore is excellent service I wouldn't say its the best source for NOS tubes. Maybe if you only want to buy in Canada. I have gotten some NOS from the tubestore but if I'm seriously looking for NOS I go to KCA. That being said I've resigned my self to using primarly current production now. As for tone differences I've compared many NOS to current production and I'm of the opinion that the tone differences is so subtle that I think the tube snobs that think NOS is superior in tone are hearing things. As the construction is supposedly better I guess they do last longer but you pay much more so I don't think its of any more value. I only use NOS for the rectifier now as I find current production can be unreliable. For the EL84, 6L6, and 12AX7 tubes I use current production and have very good luck with reliability. When I had an amp that used an EF86 I also used NOS as the current production I found unreliable.


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## savageblue (May 18, 2010)

Try searching the Ontario Swapshop. It is a forum for buying and selling ham radio gear and often has tubes listed. I bought a pair of NOS Jan 6v6 for a great price.


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## CSBen (Mar 1, 2011)

guitarman2 said:


> Although I agree that the tubestore is excellent service I wouldn't say its the best source for NOS tubes. Maybe if you only want to buy in Canada. I have gotten some NOS from the tubestore but if I'm seriously looking for NOS I go to KCA. That being said I've resigned my self to using primarly current production now. As for tone differences I've compared many NOS to current production and I'm of the opinion that the tone differences is so subtle that I think the tube snobs that think NOS is superior in tone are hearing things. As the construction is supposedly better I guess they do last longer but you pay much more so I don't think its of any more value. I only use NOS for the rectifier now as I find current production can be unreliable. For the EL84, 6L6, and 12AX7 tubes I use current production and have very good luck with reliability. When I had an amp that used an EF86 I also used NOS as the current production I found unreliable.


Not to nit pic at it here Guitarman2, but aren't contradicting yourself a bit there?

I surely don't mind being called a NOS tube snob as I've heard first hand on a number of occasions NOS tubes sounding much better than new production tubes. Tone and reliability is what NOS tubes will get you 10 folds over new production tubes. Will they also fail? of course they will, but a good NOS dealer will replace them at no cost.

An important clarification to make here is that NOS tubes, especially pre-amp tubes, do NOT have to be $100+ per tube. You can find very good sounding NOS pre-amp tubes for $20 that are simply mislabelled tubes. 

EL84s will typically last much less longer than their bigger bottled 6v6/6l6 brothers, so for those I would never recommend spending the extra $$ on NOS over new production tubes.


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## CSBen (Mar 1, 2011)

Milkman said:


> What would be the benefit to buying new old stock as opposed to, well, new new stock? Is it an environmental coincern that has forced tube makers to comprimise the quality?
> 
> Just curious.


Tone and reliability quite simply.

Why they aren't the same all revolves around two things - the components used, but more importantly prehaps the tooling used IMHO. They simply aren't as well calibrated as they used too and don't meet the original specs design.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

CSBen said:


> Not to nit pic at it here Guitarman2, but aren't contradicting yourself a bit there?
> 
> I surely don't mind being called a NOS tube snob as I've heard first hand on a number of occasions NOS tubes sounding much better than new production tubes. Tone and reliability is what NOS tubes will get you 10 folds over new production tubes. Will they also fail? of course they will, but a good NOS dealer will replace them at no cost.
> 
> ...


EL84's do not last longer than 6L6. I have amps with both and that is not my experience. I'm not totally against NOS. I just don't think its as necessary as some think. There are some pretty decent current production tubes. After I started to loosen up a little from my NOS tube snobbery and try some of the current production tubes I have had pretty good experiences.
I agree in some respects reliability is better. As for tone I think its so subtle that for most circumstances its insignificant and therefore a waste of $$$'s to invest in NOS simply cause you think the tone is better. I tried an experiment some time ago with guitar cables. Testing a major expensive brand that made the claim his cables were superiour, more reliable and sounded better. I still go back and forth between the expensive cables and planet waves and cannot detect a discernible difference. I've done the same with tubes. I've used some nice NOS and still use NOS for somethings but I don't really hear a difference. And even if you strain to hear a difference at home or in a studio, how much are you going to hear live?


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## zurn (Oct 21, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> EL84's do not last longer than 6L6.


I think you misread CSBen. I have never tried any NOS tubes, but I plan to see for myself one day if they are worth it.



CSBen said:


> EL84s will typically last much *less* longer than their bigger bottled 6v6/6l6 brothers


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## CSBen (Mar 1, 2011)

guitarman2 said:


> EL84's do not last longer than 6L6. I have amps with both and that is not my experience. I'm not totally against NOS. I just don't think its as necessary as some think. There are some pretty decent current production tubes. After I started to loosen up a little from my NOS tube snobbery and try some of the current production tubes I have had pretty good experiences.
> I agree in some respects reliability is better. As for tone I think its so subtle that for most circumstances its insignificant and therefore a waste of $$$'s to invest in NOS simply cause you think the tone is better. I tried an experiment some time ago with guitar cables. Testing a major expensive brand that made the claim his cables were superiour, more reliable and sounded better. I still go back and forth between the expensive cables and planet waves and cannot detect a discernible difference. I've done the same with tubes. I've used some nice NOS and still use NOS for somethings but I don't really hear a difference. And even if you strain to hear a difference at home or in a studio, how much are you going to hear live?


In which amps did you do most of the testing? The amps themselve are a pretty big factor. I'm not trying to be a snob here, but a $300 amp will simply NOT react and play the same as a higher end, better built and quality amp. I'm not saying that's what your playing with, so no offence intented by that statement; it's only from based my own experience. 

I didn't say the new production tubes didn't sound good, only that I've found that NOS tubes sounded much better. Some do sound pretty decent I agree.

But again, a NOS tube doens't have to be a $100+ tube : ) I've bought no-name, missed labelled NOS tubes before for $20 that sounded great. For the reliability factor only, to me its well worth the $5 more, if that.

As for guitar cables, I don't know if one brand sounds better than another, but I think you'd be able to here differences between one another right? I have anyways; whether or not you find the $200 cable better is another thing, but differenes can be noticed.

In the end, we'll most likely have to agree to disagree (and that's totally cool of course).

And yeah, as Zurn said, I said that EL84s didn't last as long. Play them enough everyday/week and you'll go through them in a handfull of months for sure!

Cheers
Ben


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## Roybruno92 (Jul 20, 2011)

Like the good people at Watson teach us, no NOS is good NOS. (im also of this persuasion). there are many reasons why NOS is not always the clearest/smartest choice for a project. The first has to do with availability; thus not being able to get them at a later date (EHX has been running into this problem recently for some of their BBD chips and they're going to have to rectify that soon). Also, when you use NOS, you're potentially robbing indivduals who will be needing it to repair old gear(but don't feel too guilty  While this is untrue for certain things as guitarman pointed out, NOS parts also tend to be less reliable as they were made a long time ago (logical no?). 
Lesson is, only use NOS when you absolutely need to. It'll sound pretty much the same, save you a buck and be genrally more reliable.

The choice is yours but these are my 2 cents.


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## Moot (Feb 15, 2009)

The new Northern Electric tubes from thetubestore.com are the best 12ax7's I've yet tried. I have lots of old tubes, mostly pre-amp tubes, and I prefer the Northern Electrics even over my beloved Bugle Boys, which are now on their last legs anyhow. But I also bought some old 5751's which sound great.


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

Hey Moot,
I agree with you on the NE 12AX7 tubes. I don't know how they compare to NOS (of which I have no faith in) but I do like the sound quality, and the low noise level.


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## CSBen (Mar 1, 2011)

Roybruno92 said:


> Like the good people at Watson teach us, no NOS is good NOS. (im also of this persuasion). there are many reasons why NOS is not always the clearest/smartest choice for a project. The first has to do with availability; thus not being able to get them at a later date (EHX has been running into this problem recently for some of their BBD chips and they're going to have to rectify that soon). Also, when you use NOS, you're potentially robbing indivduals who will be needing it to repair old gear(but don't feel too guilty  While this is untrue for certain things as guitarman pointed out, NOS parts also tend to be less reliable as they were made a long time ago (logical no?).
> Lesson is, only use NOS when you absolutely need to. It'll sound pretty much the same, save you a buck and be genrally more reliable.
> 
> The choice is yours but these are my 2 cents.


Sure availability can be an "issue", if buy them one at a time from an unreliable source. Guys like Mike @ KCA and Brent @ Audiotubes have been in business for many years and have kept up with the market. How often have you replaced your preamp tubes in your amp? Once a year maybe? The big variable is the amount of hrs you're putting on your amp, obviously.

Say you find a good NOS preamp tube that you like @ $25. Why not buy 4 of them of them for $100; not $1,000 here, just $100 and you've got yourself a good reserve of preamp tubes (well of 1 variation) for a few years. 

As for robbin individuals...well...glad you mentionned that as a joke!!!!

As for NOS parts being less reliable because they were made a long time ago - on that one there is just no give, I gotta totally dissagree with you on the "made a long time ago". NOS tubes were made with parts of much higher quality and tooling with much higher tolerances (to follow the specs outlined by the manifacturer). Any reliable tube dealer will screen all of the the NOS tubes that they are selling; if they aren't, I wouldn't be buying them that's for sure (would love to have my own tester though!)


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## Roybruno92 (Jul 20, 2011)

Don't get me wrong, i'm totally fine with people buying NOS tubes. But as to stating that they are of superior craftsmanship and sound is debatable. I feel like this NOS thing is all a fad, just like boutique pedals or hybrid cars  . If you guys wanna buy NOS tubes, that is your businnes; just feel like there's a perspective that I need to share so that fellow musicians understand(although im sure they do), the subtleties of the marketing we're vicitims tof.

b



CSBen said:


> Sure availability can be an "issue", if buy them one at a time from an unreliable source. Guys like Mike @ KCA and Brent @ Audiotubes have been in business for many years and have kept up with the market. How often have you replaced your preamp tubes in your amp? Once a year maybe? The big variable is the amount of hrs you're putting on your amp, obviously.
> 
> Say you find a good NOS preamp tube that you like @ $25. Why not buy 4 of them of them for $100; not $1,000 here, just $100 and you've got yourself a good reserve of preamp tubes (well of 1 variation) for a few years.
> 
> ...


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

Interesting viewpoints guys. I don't think anyone is a snob necessarily for voting a certain way with their wallet. That's a moot point anyways that doesn't really advance the conversation. I think the saying "Your mileage may vary" applies in discussions like these.


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## CSBen (Mar 1, 2011)

They are far superious craftmanship, that is not even a point worth debating. 

Ask ANY reputable tube dealer, new or NOS production and see the answer you'll be getting. Just as nkjanssen already mentionned, the applications of tube then compared to know is world appart. You do know what the designation of JAN tubes is correct? 

Boutique pedals? Well that's a whole different discussion that can be had in another thread, not to derail this one.

Hybrid cars...c'mon now! You are kidding right? I would still buy a Porche GT2 over an hybrid, but you cannot deny the environmental impacts that hydrid technologies will have...right? Again, something that is better left discussed in another thread.

You can call it marketing "victimology" only if you haven't done your homework, your own research and testing. 

I keep saying it, but it seems that it's not sinking in. I never said that all new production tubes were bad and sounded like shit. Some are quite good, not denying that. But if you can possibly get something better in your life, tube or anything else you can think of, will you ALWAYS just settle for what you have already? I would hope not.





Roybruno92 said:


> Don't get me wrong, i'm totally fine with people buying NOS tubes. But as to stating that they are of superior craftsmanship and sound is debatable. I feel like this NOS thing is all a fad, just like boutique pedals or hybrid cars  . If you guys wanna buy NOS tubes, that is your businnes; just feel like there's a perspective that I need to share so that fellow musicians understand(although im sure they do), the subtleties of the marketing we're vicitims tof.
> 
> b


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I've done extensive preamp tube testing in some old blackface Fenders, specifically a couple of Deluxe Reverbs and a couple of Pro Reverbs, as well as various more modern production amps. There is unquestionably a sonic difference from tube to tube, and it's really not that subtle to me. What sounds best varies from amp to amp for sure, and if you're looking for mid-high gain in a more modern sounding amp, a more modern higher gain tube is the likely best candidate. But old 60's RCA, Sylvania, Mullard, GE tubes almost always have superior sonic qualities in an application where they 'fit the bill'. Again, do a side by side of a Sovtek 12AX7 vs a good NOS tube and there is a world of difference - not saying the old one will always be best, but you will always hear the difference.

As to durability, the old ones were built to tight tolerances in western Europe and North America, vs modern production in China and Eastern Bloc countries where they don't always have the capability or the will to make 'the best of the best'....and, in my experience again, they do outlast modern production tubes many times over. The failure rate is higher and the lifespan shorter, with exceptions - there's the odd new tube that lasts a long time but that is the exception not the rule. My HiWatt is a 1981 and still has its original Mullards, tested and exceeding spec, after years on the road and many more years in the hands of a couple of hobbyists.

As pointed out in this thread, there are many reasons to go with modern production (cost being a big one but not the only one - many amps are designed around modern production, so that's what they sound best with) and certainly not all of them are tone turds or liable to fail in short measure. But NOS does have distinct advantages in many applications.


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

> NOS parts also tend to be less reliable as they were made a long time ago (logical no?).


 Yes and no. There was a quality of workmanship involved many years ago that may not be present today. So some NOS tubes are very well made indeed. The problem comes in the availabilty of good tubes. There are store rooms full of tubes that did not make the grade back then. A lot of these are coming out as quality NOS tubes, which they are not. The other issue is due to the type of test equipment, part to part consistency was not very good. Tolerances of over 20% were common. This may or may not make any differnce in your application. In my experience, tolerances are tighter today (but still pretty broad).
Bottom line is, if you want NOS, find a reputable dealer possibly with an exchange policy or guarantee.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

NOS/ANOS 7025s make a very audible differenece in old black and silverface Fenders in my opinion. They're may be new manufacturers making similarly high quality low noise 12AX7 type preamp tubes, however I haven't heard any that compare. If you own an older Fender that has an 7025 designation for the first preamp tube, you owe it yourself to try one out. There's a crystaline purity that EHX and other maker's offerings just don't have. The life expectancy on some of the newer tubes is improving. I personally feel that some of the newer power tube offerings are pretty good. Though I also feel power tubes are not nearly as critical to overall tone. That's a different debate

Cheers


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## CSBen (Mar 1, 2011)

Rugburn said:


> NOS/ANOS 7025s make a very audible differenece in old black and silverface Fenders in my opinion. They're may be new manufacturers making similarly high quality low noise 12AX7 type preamp tubes, however I haven't heard any that compare. If you own an older Fender that has an 7025 designation for the first preamp tube, you owe it yourself to try one out. There's a crystaline purity that EHX and other maker's offerings just don't have. The life expectancy on some of the newer tubes is improving. I personally feel that some of the newer power tube offerings are pretty good. Though I also feel power tubes are not nearly as critical to overall tone. That's a different debate
> 
> Cheers


I agree with you on the PowerTube statement Rugburn. IMO, 50% of your amp tone(S) comes from the tone generating V1 position, another good 25% from your PI and the other 25% from your PT. Not to say that they aren't important, but for the _overall_ tone, nothing will beat V1 and PI.

I LOVE =C='s 6L6s in my Swart AST Pro; by far the best sounding new productions 6L6 on the market. There will be differences between brand, but not in the same "ratio", for lack of better terms, than preamp tubes.

Cheers
B


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