# Give me reasons for how Buckethead's KFC bucket and mask are a gimmick after this



## Shawn Lane (Mar 8, 2012)

*Iron Maiden:*

1980-2010

1: 32.04
2: 36.79
3: 40.15
4: 45.5
5: 51.02
6: 51.24
7: 43.5
8: 44.25
9: 58.29
10: 81.01
11: 53.1
12: 76.57
13: 77.59
14: 81.54
15: 84.34

avg time per song: 60
avg album/y: .5

In 30 years: 856.93 minutes total
(14.3 hours)


Buckethead:
1992:

1: 74.56
2: 73.31
3: 43.09
4: 54.27
5: 55.12
6: 46.55
7: 60.06
8: 49.32
9: 70.58
10: 58.24
11: 47.32
12: 55.22
13: 52.16
14: 41
15: 53.31
16: 43.2
17: 47.14
18: 44.21
19: 45.16
20: 46.46
21: 44.16
22: 40
23: 41.48
24: 41.5
25: 42.5
26: 40.4
27: 44.5
28: 44.2
29: 41.3
2010

avg time: 49
avg album/y: 1.6

In 18 years: 1440.32 minutes
(24 hours)

-If buckethead started in 1980: around 19 more albums would have been made.-
-which means ~931 more minutes of music. Which means ~15.5 more hours of music. -


The topic at hand is why do people believe what Buckethead chooses to look like etc is more of a gimmick than Iron Maiden as a band? Clearly Iron Maiden's gimmick was and still is much more successful than Buckethead's 'gimmick'
In a sense calling something a gimmick is redundant if you cannot prove it. So please share your experience with me and give me some details as to why people might think what Buckethead does is a gimmick.

I don't think I have to explain that the tickets to Bucketheads' show cost much less than Iron Maiden tickets...
Even if the tickets did cost more, it is quite clear that Buckethead is currently producing much more music per year than Iron Maiden (almost triple compared to them, actually. Not to mention his music expands over more than one-ish genre.)

On top of this bands (Iron Maiden, Metallica, etc) typically play to well...appease to the fans. What does that mean? Well that means they want people to like their music so they can play in more concerts and make more money.

Key word here being making more money.

Buckethead just throws on his ipod and chills out on stage. There are occasions where he has a band, or a drummer. 
There are also all of the albums not being mentioned that he takes part in such as 'Cornbugs', 'Death Cube K', and 'Primus' (probably others as well. Gods only knows how much music he actually takes a part in)

You almost have to combine the careers of the Iron Maiden band members to even make it a close match up in terms of workload and musicianship. It is impossible to argue about this statement as it is blatantly true.

But then there's the whole argument that clearly iron maiden is better because of popularity etc etc.


There's no way I can argue with that but deep down inside we all know it is ditch effort to stop or win the argument. How do you measure quality?
Is it popularity? I guarantee Media has a lot to do with some of the 'musicians' becoming popular.
Is it the amount of bends? The technical ability? What is technical ability? Playing scales fast? Shawn Lane himself even said technical ability is commonly mistook as playing something fast. He said even
subtle 1/8th note bends or a slide can be just as difficult to execute (especially after doing a bend or a slide) properly as doing a scale. As he delved into indian music he said it was one of the most difficult things he learned through his guitar experiences and that was because of the different techniques they use to play.

But I digress. Please share your thoughts on the subject


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Who gives a shit?..............


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Well, the length of a song does not really come into play at all, IMO. It's either good or it's not. Buckethead can play, there is no question about that. Not sure why he has not sold out the ACC yet but neither has Steve Vai or Joe Satriani. Typically solo acts, especially guitar players that can't sing, don't. Intersting that you picked Iron Maiden, any particular reason for that choice?


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Accept2 said:


> Who gives a shit?..............


I generally don't try to knock anyone for participating on a discussion forum.... but seriously.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2012)

who's Buckethead? chick'n lickin' rock or something?


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## Shawn Lane (Mar 8, 2012)

I think it's more or less i'm slowly learning the type of music I like vs. the general population. When I first came on this forum it was a pretty one sided view I had which was 'my music better than yours' etc etc.
Now that i'm looking more deeply into the subject, it's more of a sad realization that music that has singing in it will have a stronger chance of being more popular.

I can understand the theory and reasoning behind why singing should be more popular, but that isn't what my ears think when I listen to singing (most of singing, anyways).
I picked Iron Maiden out specifically because it's a bit of a quirk I have. Perhaps it is a bit of a bias but I have always enjoyed female singers more than male singers. But again that's a preference.

It also comes down to 'lyrics'
People will argue that some bands have better lyrics etc for the intent. Like history, war, depression, love, etc.
I feel that lyrics are like advertisements, targeting an audience and hoping the lyrics are successful at catching their ears and interest.
If I hear about a band that sings about programming and algorithms, my ear is more likely to get a boner over that than someone singing about geography.

This is why I cannot seriously consider singing with lyrics an actual piece of music simply because it is subliminal advertising, in a way.

Hellborg, Lane, Marchesini - Little Wing (Calcutta School of Music, India - 7th Feb 2003) - YouTube

I prefer hearing that kind of singing vs. singing with lyrics.
Sure people can take lyrics and fuse them into a song so it goes along nicely. But it still is abusing this sense of advertising to a group of people.
I actually enjoy this version of little wing because when I hear him playing while singing it shows how much he is enjoying the music, as I am.
It shows that you don't need to write words to be a part of the song in voice.

Obviously this is again a preference of mine, but you asked why I picked iron maiden in particular and I digressed a little bit as well. Iron Maiden is, in my view, a strong example of the singer carrying a lot of the band's value. While I personally dislike his voice, I have met countless of people who absolutely love it. and from what i've been told their lyrics are also above most typical pieces of music nowadays. While it's not as bad as let's say....ghetto pop rock or whatever's floating around nowadays, it is still lyrics.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Bucket's stuff for me gets borring and old VERY Fast...but i can listen to maiden's discographie over and over again..but that's my taste in music


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Sometimes, if you are a solo act, you have to fill some time as well. 











I will give him credit for sticking to it though. I know that if I had that kind of talent I would have found my way into a headlining act a long time ago. He could as well but clearly has chosen to stick to his own thing.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

I actually don't mind Buckethead at all. He really has some chops though I'm not particularly fond of listening to him for an hour. I can certainly handle a song here and there. I also think his LP is kind of cool.


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## cheesehead (Mar 9, 2012)

Accept2 said:


> Who gives a shit?..............


I wont say it the same way but......Seriously what does it matter? You like Buckethead and some don't. But there are a ton of artists out there with a gimmick. Lets see oh I don't know....Alice Cooper, KISS, Rob Zombie, Aerosmith and the list can go on forever. It doesnt matter what they wear or how they act on stage, if you like the music go with it. Apparently you seem to be offended that not everyone thinks Buckethead is amazing. And just cause you posted about that Lane guy and not everyone here thought he was the greatest guitarist that ever lived, you got upset. I am sure we all like certain artists that not everyone else feels the same way about. I for one think Nickleback is great, a lot of other people can't stand them. And yeah why choose Iron Maiden?


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Ah, Shane Lawn, you never left! 
You were apparently compiling another bewildering thread. 
Nice.

I'm also curious to why you chose Iron Maiden.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2012)

Shawn Lane said:


> ... music that has singing in it will have a stronger chance of being more popular.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Yes, it has been the general rule that singers will fair better than guitar players

[video=youtube;DMl0_fmFcbQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMl0_fmFcbQ[/video]


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Also curious about the comparison. 2 entirely different acts.

Bottom line, people like what they like, and it's not often quantifiable as to why - which is what it seems you are trying to establish. It's been studied and studied and studied and while, sure, there are some generalizations, there are no hard and fast 'logical' answers.

Also very true about the lack of a singer. Since, oh, say, 1965 (sorta post-Ventures), how many musical only numbers have been big hits? Let's see, I can think of Albatross (Fleetwood Mac Peter Green era) and Classical Gas. Oh, there may be another one or 2 that are in the pop library - Samba Pati is a big favourite of mine and my wife's - but of all the recorded, electric guitar based songs (nb - I know 'Classical Gas' wasn't electric.), I can't think of any more big hits.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

[video=youtube;I_jC5b2DlzE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_jC5b2DlzE[/video]

There ya go, sans lyrics.


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## cwittler (May 17, 2011)

Lyrics convey a message. It used to be how we passed on news from town to town. It was easier to remember a song with words that rhymed. Things evolved from there, but the method to the madness is still the same. It takes all kinds to make a world, but those with something to say will gather a larger crowd than those whistling a tune no one can sing.


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

Welcome to Bucketheadland

Probably a safe bet you'd be in the majority over there. Although to be fair, it's not like there's much traffic roaming around the place.

As for this thread, I got nothin' (although I do have a couple of choice seats to Maiden in July). Buckethead could put out an album (CD?) once a week and beyond the belief that quantity wins out over quality - what's to be gained? If the bucket thing isn't a gimmick then does he wear it around the house on a lazy Tuesday morning? If not - then I'm pretty sure it's a gimmick. If that's how he gets his Game Face on - then yeah, it's still a gimmick in my books. He made a decision to invent his story and alter-ego (as best as I understand it - I'm not versed in his ways and means) - but really, if I hear someone say "Buckethead" - then it's a fairly cool Les Paul model and some dude wearing a bucket on his head that I know of. Believe he spent some time in a not-quite-Guns-N'-Roses variation too, no? He puts out albums? Had no idea. More than Iron Maiden? Well ok, but I'll have to trust your figures on it until I can get my own spreadsheets up and running.

If you want everyone to just agree with you that he's a legend and we're all fools for not accepting it, then let me know and I'll pass the word around and see what I can do.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

cheesehead said:


> I wont say it the same way but......Seriously what does it matter? You like Buckethead and some don't. But there are a ton of artists out there with a gimmick. Lets see oh I don't know....Alice Cooper, KISS, Rob Zombie, Aerosmith and the list can go on forever. It doesnt matter what they wear or how they act on stage, if you like the music go with it. Apparently you seem to be offended that not everyone thinks Buckethead is amazing. And just cause you posted about that Lane guy and not everyone here thought he was the greatest guitarist that ever lived, you got upset. I am sure we all like certain artists that not everyone else feels the same way about. I for one think Nickleback is great, a lot of other people can't stand them. And yeah why choose Iron Maiden?


It goes beyond this to just plain common sense. What does amount of material, ticket prices, or any of the other bizarre comparisons he makes in the original thread have to do with the quality of music? It's a completely pointless comparison. This is the silliest thread I have seen on a discussion forum, and that is saying a lot.


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## jcon (Apr 28, 2006)

Is Buckethead covering Iron Maiden a vote in favour of the Bucket or Maiden? This thread is confuzzling 

[video=youtube;FHM8Sfi36ts]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHM8Sfi36ts[/video]


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

What, you say the OP does not make any sense?


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

I think that Shane Lawn is the most prolific forum member ever. And he needs no gimmick! No giant monster, no bucket! Anyone care to disprove this?


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

I'm not sure who I should direct this to. Maybe to myself?

View attachment 780


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

starjag said:


> I think that *Shane Lawn *is the most prolific forum member ever. And he needs no gimmick! No giant monster, no bucket! Anyone care to disprove this?


starjag....too much single malt? (sorry, couldn't resist)

Cheers

Dave


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

fretboard said:


> I'm not sure who I should direct this to. Maybe to myself?
> 
> View attachment 780


This is funny!


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

greco said:


> starjag....too much single malt? (sorry, couldn't resist)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


Don't be a hater Dave. Your output per second of membership is no where near his. If he continues at this rate, his output per second of membership could easy reach infinity. And maybe even go beyond infinity. Care to disprove this?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

starjag said:


> Don't be a hater Dave. Your output per second of membership is no where near his. If he continues at this rate, his output per second of membership could easy reach infinity. And maybe even go beyond infinity. Care to disprove this?


I was actually teasing you...you referred to the OP as "Shane Lawn".

Cheers

Dave


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

I know I'm poking the troll but,I'd suggest that Shorn Lawn should give us reasons why a KFC bucket and mask aren't gimmicks .


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Bubb said:


> I know I'm poking the troll but,I'd suggest that Shorn Lawn should give us reasons why a KFC bucket and mask aren't gimmicks .


Of course they are. Everybody knows that today's fashions dictate that traffic cone hats and Groucho nose glasses are what everyone is wearing this season!


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Gimmick, yes perhaps. But you still have to have talent. There have been many, many people that have tried to go with the gimmicks and it will only go so far. To have any kind of longevity you are going to have to have some kind of talent. Buckethead has been around for a fairly long time


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

Shawn Lane said:


> If I hear about a band that sings about programming and algorithms


Geek rock bands have been around for a while and they sing about things that overlap with this.

I commend you for being a thinker. Try not to be an over-thinker; you'll just keep yourself awake at night. Not every opinion needs analysis and defense. And there is an inherent problem with attempting to quantify anything that is based on how it makes you feel.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Where does shoving a foil-wrapped cucumber down your pants (in the front!) rank in terms of gimmickry?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Roryfan said:


> Where does shoving a foil-wrapped cucumber down your pants (in the front!) rank in terms of gimmickry?


I thought it was an armadillo


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Oh. In the front. OK. I'll have to try it that way.


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## Shawn Lane (Mar 8, 2012)

Mark P said:


> Geek rock bands have been around for a while and they sing about things that overlap with this.
> 
> I commend you for being a thinker. Try not to be an over-thinker; you'll just keep yourself awake at night. Not every opinion needs analysis and defense. And there is an inherent problem with attempting to quantify anything that is based on how it makes you feel.


You can quantify feelings, it is just not entirely measurable at this point in time.

I think we can agree that there are a few factors that make someone like a song:

How it is played within a certain time.
i.e. a whole note vs 16 16th notes. Using the same note, but it creates a different mood does it not?

Delays between notes (a.k.a. silence, or replaced in the background with another instrument)
Note Shaping: which is slides, bends, essentially changing the type of vibrato and the feel as well. Everyone can pick a string, but using bends and such creates a character. If you learn to bend in different ways, you'll be able to be more interesting to listen to. Keep in mind this also detracts from what i'll talk about next.
*
Catchiness.* I bold this one because I absolutely despise music that is like this. Most popular bands exude this catchy sound or catchy style which they use in a vast majority of their songs. It isn't just the solo's, either.
If a person can remember what they listened to (and they like it) they are absurdly more likely to listen to it again. I mean why not right? It's stuck in your head, it must be a good song. Obviously.
(p.s. that one iron maiden song you posted shows perfectly well why Iron maiden has barely changed any of their music since the stone ages. I've heard that style of playing in more than one of their other songs.)

Improvisations
This is another quality that people don't recognize very much. I mean you came to this concert for the exact playing of Technical Difficulties, here is paul gilbert improvising on the solo! Wtf man that throws off my headbanging, i'll have to readjust now. ruined the mood dude, why do improvisations at all??

For some of us people, those who improvise are gods at their instrument. Not only did we come and hear them play their song, they've also given us a treat of letting us listen to what is in their mind. What other concoctions of music they've stirred in their lifetime. Shawn lane was a master at this aspect of guitar. Understandably it's hard to notice the differences but he made a lot more licks than any popular guitarist I can think of. Key word here being 'popular guitarists' surely there are a lot of hard working musicians who have vast amounts of improvised licks. Are they ever heard of? Probably not.

Appearance

This generates the general category of fans you'll likely have. If you dress up all gothic and such and you play music that fluttershy might listen you, you probably won't have a very big horde of fans. You'll more likely have a scattered group of devoted fans who enjoy the music. Then there's the large portion of a fanbase that like based on appearance, then enjoy the music afterwards (Guns N' Roses, anyone? It's a joke really. Slash is such an overrated guitarist it isn't funny anymore. Even beyond the arrow in the knee jokes. For a guitarist that doesn't shred, he sure can't make good sounding music either. Lol night train. yeahhhhhh.)
Obviously appearance is a fairly large factor in popularity. If you look like Buckethead you are bound to lose a fair portion of fans. I've read countless of comments where the people loved the music but when they saw buckethead they were like: "Awesome guitarist but how can I like someone who looks like that?"
So clearly some gimmicks work, some people work hard enough to make up for a bad gimmick.
It clearly is. I mean how many people when they first saw him thought: "What in the fuck is this guy thinking? He must be pretty bad to have a gimmick this terrible"
So to summarize, musicians who appeal to what people want to see (hairmetal bands come to mind. Like really? or guitarists without shirts etc etc.) are just making up for what they lack in musicianship.
Keep in mind if one friend likes a band, another friend is more likely to like them because hey they're okay looking. They aren't wearing a KFC bucket on their head, nobody will laugh at him for liking them.
You have any idea how much grief i've gotten from people who think what buckethead does is a gimmick and that 'the only reason he's this popular is because of what he wears' etc etc. When in reality
Buckethead puts more effort in music than most bands or solo artists i've seen in a long time.
He isn't a composer, because composers require yknow.. payment for writing their pieces. Obviously back then it wasn't an issue. Nowadays if you don't do concerts there goes the majority of your salary.
Yet he still manages to pound out a respectable amount of music. Enough to make most bands look like they're retarded at writing music.


nowadays? Justin Bieber takes all the money that the composers should be getting. (a.k.a. Media targeting an audience. Notice how it's successful? They clearly know more about how to abuse ones' feelings and turn it into profit than we do.) So the question isn't is it possible/impossible to measure feelings, but what are the factors that affect feeling in sound.
I've noted 4 that I believe are evident in how people like music. Clearly appearance doesn't matter if they do not see the people performing, it's a much smaller factor if they've heard something they like before they see the musician. 
I could've gone into a bit more detail and clarity probably, but you get the idea.


The issue I have is when people focus on catchiness and appearance and it is two of the big things that carry the music as being 'good' for most people. I hear it in everything.
You want a perfect example of catchiness and appearance blowing a band out of proportion for popularity? Dragonforce. Nuff said.
Heck i've heard more of them than you guys probably have (not by my choice, trust me) and everyone song I can link it back to popular composers. It's bad enough that powermetal bands yknow...take a symphony, speed it up and claim it as their own...but then dragonforce comes in and thinks they're magical little fairies and decide to twist it up and let herman distort the shit out of it.
Oh yeah on top of that, they need to be teh fastest EVAR so they use the shittiest techniques for speed (tapping, sweeping poorly) and yeah they're probably the fastest powermetal out there, at the cost of sounding like absolute shit on both their album and live.
"Oh but they have slower, nicer albums too."
Yeah, it's pretty much what they've been playing slowed down and slightly changed so idiots don't catch on. (although since they don't hear the symphonies in it I guess they wouldn't catch on anyways)
Almost anything played fast has been played slow by that guitarist, or by someone else. It's just speed changes how it sounds. But there's clearly a difference between good shredding and bad shredding, as guthrie govan explained about shawn lane at one time.

Anyone with even a tiny bit of understanding of music knows dragonforce is terrible in basically every way musically. It is just the catchiness of older music (from composers) and appearance that have them as popular as they are today.
If they end up in any guitar hall of fame I will seriously consider gouging my eyes out.
Sorry about that. Imagine having to listen to that crap every day for 2 years. Absolutely horrible


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Shawn Lane said:


> In 30 years: 856.93 minutes total
> (14.3 hours)



@[email protected] it has taken Maiden 30 years to make 14.3 hours of tunes :O OMG


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Frankly, I don't like artists with a gimmick. If you have the talent, fine. If you don't, well, go do something else.

That said, I can see someone using a gimmick to get noticed but if you're any good, you should be able to shed the gimmick and go on your talent. Gimmicks just look stupid and immature to me and turns me off.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Shawn Lane said:


> You can quantify feelings... Sorry about that. Imagine having to listen to that crap every day for 2 years. Absolutely horrible


Holy crap, what have you been smokin' today man? I think you need to write a book and get it all out of your system. You do make some very valid points, but I don't get the overall point of what you are trying to say. Your arguments and observations are nothing new in the rock n roll world and have already been debated ad nausium for the last 60 years to the point of being pointless.

Rock music is what it is. It covers an enormously wide spectrum and people are allowed to like what they like for whatever reasons they like whether you like it or not. And there lies the beauty of modern music. There is something for everybody.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

0:58 begs the question "What would happen if Luther Vandross met Buckethead?"



GuitarsCanada said:


> Yes, it has been the general rule that singers will fair better than guitar players
> 
> [video=youtube;DMl0_fmFcbQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMl0_fmFcbQ[/video]


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Shawn Lane said:


> Delays between notes (a.k.a. silence, or replaced in the background with another instrument)
> Note Shaping: which is slides, bends, essentially changing the type of vibrato and the feel as well. Everyone can pick a string, but using bends and such creates a character. If you learn to bend in different ways, you'll be able to be more interesting to listen to.


Did you mean this?

Albert Collins - If trouble was money - YouTube

P.S. I've absurdly listened to it more than once. This evening, to boot.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Is it of any real benefit to explain one's reasoning for the music or art he or she prefers?

I like what I like. If others share my tastes that's fine.

If not, well, they're just stupid.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

thing is, music has to be something you can enjoy.
thats why you can spend 20 years getting your guitar technique down, 
then get grossly outsold by some guy grunting obscenities over a sample loop of an abba tune.
this also explains why kurt cobain keeps showing up in guitar player polls.
id rather listen to kurt than buckethead, because there is a difference between
"music" and "songs" and some guy wanking away on a guitar, essentially just creating noise.
as technically great as buckethead might be, he isnt making songs. its just creative noise really, and regular folks wont pay for that.
thats the difference.
im not a maiden fan, never have been.
but i can play and sing "wrathchild" and "the trooper".
i dont know any buckethead tunes. because he doesnt really have any, does he?


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Milkman said:


> Is it of any real benefit to explain one's reasoning for the music or art he or she prefers?
> 
> I like what I like. If others share my tastes that's fine.
> 
> If not, well, they're just stupid.


OMG, you made me laugh so hard I almost shit myself!!!! Good one.


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

Roryfan said:


> Did you mean this?
> 
> Albert Collins - If trouble was money - YouTube
> 
> P.S. I've absurdly listened to it more than once. This evening, to boot.


That whole capo thing--what a gimmick!


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## vanderkalin (Sep 4, 2009)

OK, I've gotten a kick out of this for a couple of hours now, don't now why, slow night I guess, but seriously. Shawn lane is not even a real guy right? This is some friggin' troll virus, right? if not, Wow.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

vanderkalin said:


> OK, I've gotten a kick out of this for a couple of hours now, don't now why, slow night I guess, but seriously. Shawn lane is not even a real guy right? This is some friggin' troll virus, right? if not, Wow.


Yeah, Shame lame is always amusing but, hey, look at all the pages he's generated. It is great to be a 14 year old idealist philosopher. I barely remember it, but it was a great time of life for me.


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

Shawn Lane said:


> You can quantify feelings, it is just not entirely measurable at this point in time.


Perhaps, but you're going about it the wrong way. You can't add hours of produced music and say that the more prolific composer is better. 

Here's a graphic design joke:

_A rat asks a hamster, "How come people consider me a nuisance, but you're a cool kid's pet? Why do people pay money to own you, while they pay to get rid of me? How come you are considered a cute little animal, while I am considered creepy and gross? Why do you live in a warm home, but I have to stay in the sewer?

The hamster replies, "I have better branding"._

And so it goes. There are good musicians no one ever hears and crappy ones you can't get away from. However, even the crappy ones work hard, whether you like their music or not. You know why people (mostly girls) buy all those catchy, disposable, dance-y pop tunes you hate so much? It makes them feel good. While you're working to perfect your technique, someone else is raking in the cash because they've perfected the art of making people feel good. People will pay a lot for that.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Mark P said:


> Perhaps, but you're going about it the wrong way. You can't add hours of produced music and say that the more prolific composer is better.
> 
> Here's a graphic design joke:
> 
> ...


yup, and its not only about making people feel good.
its about evoking any emotion.
some of my favourite songs are so incredibly sad-
but its the strength of the emotion that it envokes that counts.
some guy playing impossible guitar parts doesnt register- 
yngwie malmsteen is a better guitar player than paul simon. or nick drake.
but yngwie cant make me cry. paul simon and nick drake can.


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## Shawn Lane (Mar 8, 2012)

bluzfish said:


> Yeah, Shame lame is always amusing but, hey, look at all the pages he's generated. It is great to be a 14 year old idealist philosopher. I barely remember it, but it was a great time of life for me.


19, turning 20 actually. Age doesn't reflect one's knowledge. I can confidently say I am decades ahead of some 70 year olds when it comes to many things about life, but I can also say the exact same thing in reverse.
Reality is we all know very little compared to someone else, who may even be much younger than us. Age is only a blind generalization that with time you SHOULD learn SOMETHING.

and it all matters on a shit load of things i'm not even bother going to start listing because i've done it in other forums(no, you won't get my theories about human interaction and education and how our brains evolve based on many things in life etc) instead you get these side tidbits of things I think about once in a while.

To be honest i'm not going to look at your age but with the comment you made i'm judging you're a teenager. Especially if you're using the old "must be a 12 year old" card.
Almost no adults use it so you're either an adult who needs to grow up, or are exactly what i'm guessing.

to vanderkalin,
what's so amazing about having an honest opinion about something instead of a basic view of it?
Anyone can say: "Well there's people who like it, people who are in the middle, and people who don't like it"
Do you really want to have an opinion that I could program into a computer in a very short time?
You say wow about me supporting my ideas with facts and all you can do is mock my efforts.
I would like to see you even attempt to create something that the general public disagrees on and even begin to bring up ideas of how to prove you're right.
Oh right you're not me. You don't 'waste time' with that kind of stuff.

Not to mention people who philosophize about things tend to have a stronger background in subjects like say...algorithms.
Oh wait my future career includes algorithms.
Right. Yep wow look at this guy and his poor coordination of thoughts and facts, poor guy won't have a future at all I say.

What's the point of measuring this and that, I mean it is what it is, right?


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

One of my very best friends is literally half my age. He's also one of the smartest people I've ever met. You know why he's so smart? Because he doesn't think he already knows everything.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Shawn Lane said:


> 19, turning 20 actually. Age doesn't reflect one's knowledge.


Absolutely right. I apologize for my demeaning comments about age vs wisdom. And I am serious about you writing a book. I admire the ideas you present but I also have to question the depth of it. I think you need to temper your idealism with some history. Everything you have presented here and in other threads seems to echo the words of all the others who have come before you with the same questions and outlook. You seem to come to your thoughts thinking they are original only because you have not looked back to see there have been many more like you asking the same questions and presenting the same observations over the years. And that only validates exactly what you present.

That is not to say the argument is concluded. And there is always a need to keep the ideals alive. That is what is meant by the phrase "Hope I die before I get old". It's not about physical aging but not closing your mind to new ideas and keeping the enduring ideals alive.

I hate the contrived corporate crap that has constantly been marketed at us since the 50's with the forthcoming, extremely skilled control and proliferation of modern media. There is a lot of music that I don't like, but I can appreciate it's value to others. I still can't embrace dance music or electronica or teeny-pop, but there it is to ignore if I choose. I am more interested in polyrhythms than algorithms so I guess that makes me a bit of a freak because I can't explain it to most people. When I was 19, I absolutely hated country music ala Johnny Cash or Merle Haggard, but now I can see their contribution to modern music and look to their roots to expand my own horizons.

Likewise, Buckethead, Metalica, Justin Beeber, Lady GaGa, Jimi Hendrix, Steve Vai, Shawn Lane and Archade fire all have their niche. They are all in the same pool of music. It's just that some are in the deep end, some are in the shallow end and some are in the kiddie pool.

You have a lot to say and I think it would be fascinating to spend some time over beers and herbs with you in deep discussion. But don't make the mistake of turning the conviction of your opinions to being opinionated. Stay open minded and accept the fact that people may not agree with you or even comprehend what you are trying to express. And visa-versa.

But no matter what, never get old.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

There's a difference between philosophizing and trying to shove your opinion down other peoples throats.

In your other thread, I did say that BH was a gimmick.
I never mentioned anything about his music, or playing ability.
It was about the mask and the KFC bucket.
If you're that good, why the get-up? It just never made any sense to me.
Then again, if you check "Lessons with BH" on youtube,
you'll quickly find out that the guy is from another planet.

If you keep on insisting on trolling this forum and handing down what you think is right and wrong,
that what you think is great and what isn't, you better wear your flamesuit.

There are many ways of getting your point across without coming off as an asshat.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Mark P said:


> One of my very best friends is literally half my age. He's also one of the smartest people I've ever met. You know why he's so smart? Because he doesn't think he already knows everything.


Well said?

The older I get, the more I come to understand how smart my dad is.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

Shawn Lane said:


> But I digress. Please share your thoughts on the subject


 My thought is that you should enter a post in the Gold Membership Contest at GC. Here is the link. Good luck.
http://www.guitarscanada.com/open-m...t-contest-guitars-canada-gold-membership.html


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Intrepid said:


> My thought is that you should enter a post in the Gold Membership Contest at GC. Here is the link. Good luck.
> http://www.guitarscanada.com/open-m...t-contest-guitars-canada-gold-membership.html


I was thinking that the ego thread would also be a good one. I have always hung out with people that are older than I ... sad part is now I am the older guy that doesn't know enough.


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## justneal (Jan 17, 2012)

here is my take on this. who cares if either one of them have a gimmick?
if they can play, and you enjoy listening to it fantastic, if they can't play and you enjoy fantastic, arguing over someones taste in music is dumb, plain and simple.

i like dave matthews band, keith urban, srv, great big sea, and i play guitar, are my choices less relevant than someone who listens to rush, dream theater, and pantera or estaban? no


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Frankly, I don't like artists with a gimmick. If you have the talent, fine. If you don't, well, go do something else.
> That said, I can see someone using a gimmick to get noticed but if you're any good, you should be able to shed the gimmick and go on your talent. Gimmicks just look stupid and immature to me and turns me off.


...your condescension is noted. gimmicks, etc, bridge the gap between a musician and an audience of non-musicians. they are part of the tools of the trade, and can take the form of costumes, charisma, production, lighting, pytotechnics, dancing...you name it. it can be as simple as the between song patter that helps the audience connect with the performer and his/her music. so-called "gimmicks" or "schtick" are a hallmark of popular music, more so than, say, classical, jazz or folk music.

as i pointed out in my "ego" thread, i'm sure david lee roth could stand at the microphone, where slacks, a nice shirt and sensible shoes and just sing, using "proper technique", van halen songs. and no doubt sing them well. but i wouldn't pay to see it and, more to the point, it wouldn't be rocknroll.

loosen up, bro'! allow a little fun in your life.

as for "talent", meh! i have no use for it. give me a performer with very little talent but a heartful of soul and i'm hooked.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

david henman said:


> ...your condescension is noted. gimmicks, etc, bridge the gap between a musician and an audience of non-musicians. they are part of the tools of the trade, and can take the form of costumes, charisma, production, lighting, pytotechnics, dancing...you name it. it can be as simple as the between song patter that helps the audience connect with the performer and his/her music. so-called "gimmicks" or "schtick" are a hallmark of popular music, more so than, say, classical, jazz or folk music.
> 
> as i pointed out in my "ego" thread, i'm sure david lee roth could stand at the microphone, where slacks, a nice shirt and sensible shoes and just sing, using "proper technique", van halen songs. and no doubt sing them well. but i wouldn't pay to see it and, more to the point, it wouldn't be rocknroll.
> 
> ...


There is the other side of it as well. Bands that basically don't even acknowledge the audience. One that comes to mind immediately is King Crimson. Fripp basically hides himself inside of a box of effects cabinets. The rest of them play the music and that's it. I have seen them a few times and they never said a word to the audience, not one word. Best we got was a wave at the end of the show. So, music was great but no personal connection with the audience at all.


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## cwittler (May 17, 2011)

david henman said:


> i'm sure david lee roth could stand at the microphone, where slacks, a nice shirt and sensible shoes and just sing, using "proper technique", van halen songs. and no doubt sing them well. but i wouldn't pay to see it and, more to the point, it wouldn't be rocknroll.


As DLR said himself "an ounce of performance is worth a pound of talent". That's show business folks.


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## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

Shawn Lane said:


> *Give me reasons how Buckethead's KFC bucket and mask are a gimmick*


Of course it's a gimmick, obviously, and one he's stuck with because he chose to brand himself with the name Buckethead. At least Lady Gaga had the good sense not to call herself Lady Meatdress. She can swap her gimmick as she pleases.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I like Buckethead because his persona pisses off conservatives and I LOVE to piss off conservatives.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Some artists present their persona, individuality, personality, performance, stage act, art, or whatever in a different way than perhaps the average person would. So be it, I don't need to like it any more than any other art form. 

I should think that after a while the hassle of always being Buckethead would get tiresome. Must be hot under the bucket. But after a while the hassle of being Mooh gets tiresome. Must be hot carrying around all those extra pounds.

Peace, Mooh.


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## vanderkalin (Sep 4, 2009)

my daddy used to say "its better to keep quiet and be presumed stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt". To adress your points to me, however, Why is it that a basic view of something cannot also be an honest one? And is Algorithms actually a subject? Algorithms 101? have a nice day Pointdexter.


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## Shawn Lane (Mar 8, 2012)

vanderkalin said:


> my daddy used to say "its better to keep quiet and be presumed stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt". To adress your points to me, however, Why is it that a basic view of something cannot also be an honest one? And is Algorithms actually a subject? Algorithms 101? have a nice day Pointdexter.


I would advise at least a basic knowledge in what an algorithm actually is and how it affects a large portion of how humans solve a problem.

What is algorithm? - A Word Definition From the Webopedia Computer Dictionary
That is an algorithm
a + b = c is an algorithm.
mathematical formula's
scientific formula's
cooking instructions
construction blueprints
Navigation instructions (how do you think google maps generates the best method of reaching you destination?)

Software Engineers create algorithms for autonomous robots - look at Autonomous quadrocopter flies through windows - YouTube , their intent is to create a small aerial robot which can autonomously survey a disaster area, for example.
Autonomously means there is nobody controlling what it does. Everything is done through calculations. From how high it flies, to how it rotates, to how it perches on something, what it should do if its flight is interrupted and how to correct it (i.e. someone throws it towards the ground at a reasonable speed) and a few other things.
Factories use algorithms to find the most efficient way to produce something.
Almost anything to do with math that has letters is basically an algorithm. Because you can input anything in that situation and it will come out with the proper solution.

There are algorithms for languages, biology, chemistry, you name it.
To call me a pointdexter for having some interest in the foundation of how humanity measures anything in existence is pretty bewildering. I would hope there is something that one day at least gives you more interest in the subject. Obviously something you do in life that you are good at uses algorithms and you just don't realize it, so i'm content with just that. But please don't try to use someone's interest in algorithms (or anything else) as a way to make fun of them.

My posts may come off as offensive and such but it is less of an argument of what i've been saying as a retort. While I may be countering your points, it is only to delve deeper into the subject itself. I started this thread with asking people to point out reasons why buckethead is a gimmick, but it's turned into the meaning of gimmicks. And if a person read everything included in here we would come to the conclusion that buckethead's 'gimmick' is no more guilty than a band. And it is in fact just his choice of how people view him, his intentions cannot be read. Thus we can't confirm whether or not it is a gimmick because we can't read the man's mind.

The same goes for Iron Maiden or Metallica or Lady Gaga. We can't conclude that lady gaga cares more about her appearance, thus her 'gimmick' than metallica or iron maiden because perhaps Metallica is more concerned about looking badass and lady gaga just likes to wear meatdresses and such.
It can be said the other way as well. Perhaps Lady Gaga isn't some weird nutcase that dresses in something different every day and it is indeed a gimmick, thus she spends a lot of time intentionally looking different to appease her fans, and Metallica just chills out as who they've always been and they don't care what they look like.
More than likely it's somewhere in the grey area, as usual. Perhaps lady gaga is using it as a gimmick, but only someone comfortable with being different in general would do something that crazy.
Perhaps metallica looks the way they do because they're afraid of changing their image. On the other hand perhaps they don't care.

Either way, to conclude the original question in the thread:
We cannot determine how much of a gimmick Buckethead's appearance is. thus we cannot come to the conclusion that it is a gimmick.
The question of how much of a gimmick is it compared to other musicians is also a fuzzy subject, thus we cannot determine the truth of the question at hand.

Sorry for creating an impossible question guys, I know it's hard on everyone. But I think we all came out of this a better person, after reading everything of course. Clearly my opinion is as important as everyone else's. The thread itself contains the level of importance, and it is divided among everyone who posted. Obviously clarity and evidence holds weight to how much value is in a post. So while we can say mine might hold X value, someone who posted : "who cares" has just as much value because while they didn't explain why they stated something like that, they've opened another door to think about. I didn't respond to why we should or should not care because it is a long subject that I don't understand. I can generalize things but in the end nobody knows everything.

P.s. I don't think I know everything. In fact a lot of this I am generating as the thread develops. That doesn't make it any less true than it is though. I consider everything to have a counterpoint and I enjoy watching counterpoints develop into a logic tree that ventures through other topics. I also understand that there is a strong possibility that someone is just as correct as me in their opinion, as nobody can really have a correct opinion on the matter at hand. In the end the goal is a 'grey' sort of opinion which will eventually lead to an algorithm that we can use to find out how much of a gimmick someone's appearance actually is. That is a long ways away before we find that out though. Past my lifetime and definitely centuries more.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

This is out of the Websters dictionary,

Gimmick - _c_*:* a trick or device used to attract business or attention <a marketing _gimmick_>


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## grumpyoldman (Jan 31, 2010)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Gimmick, yes perhaps. But you still have to have talent. There have been many, many people that have tried to go with the gimmicks and it will only go so far. To have any kind of longevity you are going to have to have some kind of talent. Buckethead has been around for a fairly long time


So, just to be clear on this, Buckethead is the one on the left in this picture, in the rather natty zebra-themed pyjamas, in his pre-KFC bucket days?

John
thegrumpyoldman


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

nkjanssen said:


> I can't decide if "Shawn Lane" is my most favourite or least favourite GC member.
> 
> I'm going to have to put the deliberations on hold, though, because I'm about to start recording 25 straight hours of music - which, when completed, will clearly and obviously fulfill my life-long goal of becoming a better musician than Buckethead.
> 
> ...and I'm going to do the whole damn thing with a blueberry toaster waffle on my shoulder.


Is that waffle going to have some Quebec Maple syrup on it, that would look great


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

How good is Buckethead?


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

fredyfreeloader said:


> Is that waffle going to have some Quebec Maple syrup on it, that would look great


Probably not .. short supply this year.


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## The Lullaby (Dec 8, 2010)

if only someone would tell me what jag tanna's setup is?


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## vanderkalin (Sep 4, 2009)

ok look, I'll answer the original point of your thread then. Bucket head isn't a gimmick. Buckethead EMPLOYS a gimmick, namely wearing a bucket on his head. And by the way, I've been to college, and if you have the time to waste on this thread that you evidently do, you aren't going to do well there. Peace!


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Hang on .. I don't get it ..


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)




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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Gimmick, yes perhaps. But you still have to have talent. There have been many, many people that have tried to go with the gimmicks and it will only go so far. To have any kind of longevity you are going to have to have some kind of talent. Buckethead has been around for a fairly long time


Now that's a gimmick - a three-string bass!


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

GuitarsCanada said:


>


Frig, can you imagine how large that bass would be if it had a 4th string?!?!


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)




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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

A young BH...










On a family vacation...










College...










The boardroom...


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Milkman said:


> Is it of any real benefit to explain one's reasoning for the music or art he or she prefers?
> 
> I like what I like. If others share my tastes that's fine.
> 
> If not, well, they're just stupid.


I feel the same way...........I wonder who's been stupid more times, me or you.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Mark P said:


> Perhaps, but you're going about it the wrong way. You can't add hours of produced music and say that the more prolific composer is better.
> 
> Here's a graphic design joke:
> 
> ...


You've nailed it.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

And quit dissing Slash. You were -7 yrs old when G'n'R broke, so to put things into perspective here's what the rock guitar landscape was like in the mid-late 80s:

1) Randy Rhoads, Keith Moon & John Bonham were dead (at least Led Zep had the good sense to disband).

2) Def Leppard kept trying to remake Pyromania. They'd spend a year in the studio, but the more overdubs they did the worse their records sounded.

3) Van Halen had become Van Hagar.

4) AC/DC was "meh" at best.

5) Depending on the year, Joe Perry was either in rehab or passed out in a ditch somewhere.

6) There was no YouTube for lessons, rare live performances & discovering underappreciated talents.

7) All the players featured in guitar mags had pink shredder guitars w/ pointy reverse headstocks & locking trems, which they then plugged into rackmount effects processors (even Jeff Beck succumbed for a brief while).

8) It was compulsary to spend 14 hours a day practicing scales, Paganini etudes & dive bombing.

9) Keyboards were on everything. Not pianos. Not Hammond B3s. Not Jon Lord. Keyboards.

10) The guys in the bands were often prettier than the video vixens.

11) Alex Lifeson was in the throes of a decade-long addiction to chorus.

So then along came Slash who plugged a Les Paul into a Marshall. He didn't use a wang bar, he bent notes the old-fashioned way. Compared to the over-processed production values of the day, his tone was fat & raw. Although his pentatonic lines may not have been groundbreaking, given the context of the times they were actually quite refreshing. Slash & his mates had the cajones to buck the trends & make a very solid debut album. And that us why he will always have my respect.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

keeperofthegood said:


>


Now to put the Caramilk inside the Caramilk bar.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

keeperofthegood said:


>


2nd attempt: 

Buckethead's got some decent chops, but have you heard Jimmyhat? Wow, is he ever fast! But for some weird reason the chicks don't really like that.


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

Accept2 said:


> Who gives a shit?..............


That's exactly what I was thinking. Then I realized I wasted precious minutes of my life reading and responding to this.


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## Shawn Lane (Mar 8, 2012)

Please don't give me the line: "How do you have time for this blah blah blah, i'm in college i'm a busy person I have a life etc"

I once worked with a retired professor. We spent a few weeks digging up a retaining cement wall and tilting it so it wouldn't have to be replaced. Basically saving $9,000 or so.
After spending 10 hours each day, I would go home and do whatever. Usually it was games. You know what he would do afterwards?
His 5 or 6 other projects on the go. He did roofing, gardening, computer troubleshooting, among god knows what else. Those were only the things he mentioned.
Even though he was completely exhausted from working on the wall he would spend another 4 or more hours working on something else.

People who complain about college are a joke. They can't even fathom what real work is and neither can I.
I've done physical labor for 15 hours a day but obviously I can't compare it to study labor. I do understand though that since you're in college it's of your own free will so clearly you enjoy what you're doing there.
Thus it isn't so difficult to put in the extra hours on anything.
But slacking off for an hour after homework or thinking you 'don't have time' makes most busy adults laugh their faces off. Some people don't get time to even look at their computer in a day.

The difference between you and I is I choose to live at a par pace. I could be doing something with my life right now instead i'd like to do self-therapy to solve future issues that would rise otherwise.
who needs a therapist when I can use forum-goers like you guys


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## vanderkalin (Sep 4, 2009)

what a fruit cake. Dude, get back on your meds. Peace out.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

Shawn Lane said:


> who needs a therapist when I can use forum-goers like you guys


Admitting that you have a problem is the first step. 

I think you should spend some time analyzing the meaning of the phrase, "Pick your battles."

You can't talk someone in to liking something. Accept that and the fact that people will disagree with your opinion, then move on. No one can win because there is no finish line. 

I am pretty sure that I have never heard Buckethead play, and now, I don't want to.
I'll just think of this thread.
If I do come across something with his playing, I will decide then, because that's how it works.
If this thread started out with, "Hey. This is pretty good stuf." and included a link to a video, I would likely have clicked the link and have experienced his take on music.....and then I would decide if I liked it or not....because that's how it works.

Stay cool, man.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Here's the thing about Buckethead--how are the bucket, the mask--and the name NOT a gimmick?

They are--because they have nothing to do with playing guitar, so they're gimmicks.

Now to carry on with my thoughts that way-
The real question to ask is not whether they are gimmicks, but to ask if it matters.

I'm just going to ignore the off topic stuff and ask that question.

Yes, it's a gimmick, but does it matter?


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## Shawn Lane (Mar 8, 2012)

dodgechargerfan said:


> Admitting that you have a problem is the first step.
> 
> I think you should spend some time analyzing the meaning of the phrase, "Pick your battles."
> 
> ...


These are a few of the ones I like in general. I picked out ones that may have a different feel, instead of being all happy songs or all sad songs. etc.
Buckethead - Brooding Peeps [HD] Buckethead - Brooding Peeps (It's Alive) - YouTube
Buckethead - Lebron Buckethead - Lebron - YouTube
Buckethead - Lotus Island Buckethead- Lotus Island - YouTube
Buckethead - Angel Monster Angel Monster - Buckethead - YouTube
Buckethead - For Mom Buckethead - For Mom - YouTube
Buckethead - Point Doom Buckethead - Point Doom - YouTube
Buckethead - Brewer in the Air Buckethead - Brewer In The Air - YouTube
Buckethead - Flock of slunks Flock Of Slunks - Buckethead - YouTube
Buckethead - Ghost Host Buckethead - Ghost Host - Recher Theatre 9-24-09 - YouTube
Buckethead - Beyond the Knowing [HD] Buckethead - Beyond the Knowing (Electric Sea) - YouTube
Buckethead - Bedlam's Bluff - Buckethead-Bedlam's Bluff - YouTube

@ vanderkalin:
Bro the only reason you aren't in a state of stuttering gibberish and frothing at the mouth is because you choose to block out the path to knowledge and great understanding. People say we have freedom of choice.
If you look into the depth of how a choice is made you'll realize our choices aren't limitless, they're limited. Limited you say?
Well if a person has a lack of knowledge in something they likely won't make a choice favoring it. Would you protect your family over strangers? Of course you would. You're making that choice because you have a better understanding of your family, also society has sort of branded it into our brains that we should support family. There is also the environment. If another person is helping their family members, you're more likely to do so.
It also depends on many other things like how the parents treat their child, whether or not they subliminally put guilt into them (I personally absolutely hate living with my parents. Why? Because i've cost them a ridiculous amount of money for all the years i've lived with them. Keep in mind i've been denying myself gifts and toys and other things they offered me since I was 4. While yes they still got me things etc, I essentially filtered it into moderation.)
I've felt bad about it my entire life. That is basically the root of my motivation to go to college and make money so I can pay them back.
I have no other motivation than that because i've found a lot of the reasons people work and I don't like it.
I don't like people, I don't like conversations, and I especially don't like relationships.
After reading that you're already putting me down as a person who flips burgers if he's lucky.
Yes I realize this. I realize humans work through social networking. It's pretty much the only way people who are less 


I let theories and thoughts come to me in an unbiased form. Surely i've made counter arguments but I don't attempt to 'force it onto them' I am simply sharing my knowledge of the other side of the subject.
If people said buckethead isn't a gimmick, I may defend that he is a gimmick in some ways. It's in my nature to argue which leads to a middle term of agreement

The side effects of thinking about many things and going into them in detail? Headaches, sometimes i'll pace back and forth too much. Sometimes i'll be so focused on something that i'm already at the location ,or the period of class is over.
No such thing as sleeping for me. I also require a base amount of 10-12 hours of sleep which just goes to show you how much stress i'm putting on my mind.

There's been studies to prove that people who are not stressed/depressed mentally require much less sleep. Sound familiar?
The point is I am being man enough to try to live my life while tackling every problem that even comes near me, where as you choose the easy road.
When I say 'easy road' I don't mean you do nothing. Obviously you contribute more than I do right now, more than likely. But the question is how long will it take until I get into a positive state of mind and
obliterate anything in my path with success?

Which is more effective? Probably your method (which most people use), but let preferences be preferences. If I want to die 20 years younger because I don't like to relax, too bad for me.


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

Buckethead, Serj Tankian & Shana Halligan - Waiting Hare - YouTube

Buckethead should make more songs like this one. Off his best album imho. 
His bucket is a sort of gimmick, but he chose to create a persona, and not struggle with any sort of celebrity status with his regular life. brilliant idea i think. 
Also, my friend in L.A knows who he really is under that bucket, but won't tell me until buckethead is no longer relevant haha. 
So it's not like no one knows who he is, just the masses don't.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Man, you're something else there Shane Lawn.

The two threads that you have started here have been convoluted, at best.
The questions and arguments to back up your claim are confusing.

You say that BH doesn't have a gimmick and argue that point with stating how much music he has out?
Comparing him to another group that's apples and oranges?

You've made no valid points to back up your nonsense.
You're starting to contradict yourself in your own posts.

Get your parents basement checked for airborne diseases that might be fogging your mind.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

It as great that his forum was pretty much troll free for the first few years, but I guess anytime a forum grows troll are inevitable. When it's so blatantly apparent what is going on with a thread like this, it should be just locked. This forum is better than this.


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> It as great that his forum was pretty much troll free for the first few years, but I guess anytime a forum grows troll are inevitable. When it's so blatantly apparent what is going on with a thread like this, it should be just locked. This forum is better than this.


+1! I certainly support more thread-locking from our mods.


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## neldom (Apr 29, 2009)

As much as I agree locking would be the way to go, I just enjoy the carnage. Just when you think it's gone as far as it can, somehow it manages to go just a little further.
But in all fairness, I was a teenager once and I thought I was a genius too. I just didn't tell everyone.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

neldom said:


> I just enjoy the carnage.


Me too. Its like rubbernecking at an accident. You know you shouldn't but you can't help yourself.


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

Shawn Lane said:


> I don't like people, I don't like conversations, and I especially don't like relationships.


Yeah, that's what I got from reading your posts. You do, however, like to talk. One last piece of advice: Other people and your relationships with them will be pretty much the most important things in your life. Without that you'll just be filling the loneliness inside with posts online that sooner or later no one will bother reading. And there's only so much company that you can fool yourself into thinking you get from internet porn.

Go hug your parents or something. Seriously.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

It seems that every time this thread has started to take a discernable shape and logic or even humour, Shawn Lane pipes in and everything stops making sense anymore as everybody gets dragged back into trying to make some new wacky observation or half baked philosophy into a logical discussion.

I've tried so hard to give Shawn Lane leeway and benefit of the doubt because he seems to truly believe the mountain of gibberish he spouts. And I believe sincerity, no matter how misguided, deserves some respect.

But this thread has become... just... crazy. From now on, I will be treating my posts here with humour only because I can't take it seriously any more.

I feel like I'm in the finale of a Terminater movie. No matter what you do to him, he just keeps coming back...


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

[video=youtube;QXgMhnI3QOI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXgMhnI3QOI[/video]


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

^^^^ This clip actually makes sense. Great gimmick!!!


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

OMG! I love Talking Heads and especially this movie from Jonathan Demme. It's been a lllooonnnggg time since I've seen it. Is it available on DVD or download? Never mind, I'll check that out.

I actually had a nostalgic lump in my throat watching the clip. I worked with Talking Heads as a sound tech on about a half dozen of their shows and saw the movie in a private screening.

So, to stay on topic, was the "Big Suit" a gimmick? You bet. But it made for great entertainment and put a new dimension into the music. First class showmanship IMHO.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

bluzfish said:


> I feel like I'm in the finale of a Terminater movie. No matter what you do to him, he just keeps coming back...


In the end there will be Arnold, Cockroaches, and Shawn Lane.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

bluzfish said:


> I feel like I'm in the finale of a Terminater movie. No matter what you do to him, he just keeps coming back...


That's because everyone keeps feeding him like a stray talking cat with Aspergers syndrome!


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## Shawn Lane (Mar 8, 2012)

So just because my opinions to you seem completely confusing and illogical you label me as a troll? Ok.


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2012)

Damn trolls! Always up to no good!


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Shawn Lane said:


> So just because my opinions to you seem completely confusing and illogical you label me as a troll? Ok.


Yup. It's "The World vs. Shawn Lane". Get used to it.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Shawn Lane said:


> So just because my opinions to you seem completely confusing and illogical you label me as a troll? Ok.


I never said anything about your opinions. I stated you simply start threads or make posts with the intent of being confrontational with others (a troll). Which is ridiculously lame and childish.


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## Shawn Lane (Mar 8, 2012)

How on earth is being confrontational childish?

Oh gee this person likes to argue for the sake of learning opinions and more about a subject.
He is such a troll and child, he clearly doesn't understand that he should not have an opinion and if he ever expresses it, it should be to influence others.
Not let others have their own opinion about it and, for the sake of knowledge, argue about it with him. Thus both parties leave the conversation with a greater understanding than before.

Yeah I could have easily just showed a bunch of vids of buckethead and said: "look at these, they're great" and it would have been infinitely more effective than what i've done. But we would have never gotten
into the topics of gimmicks or qualities of music or anything else.

Why would I, someone who likes pursuing knowledge and understanding, ignore the possibility of opening doors to other topics?

I'm not close minded to simply throw my opinion out with evidence and let people have their opinion on it. I request they share their opinion on the subject before we even begin to look at videos.
I didn't expect it to be so much to ask, and I surely didn't foresee someone calling it childish.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

shawn lane said:


> how on earth is being confrontational childish?


bwahahahahahahahaha!!!


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Shawn Lane said:


> How on earth is being confrontational childish?
> 
> Oh gee this person likes to argue for the sake of learning opinions and more about a subject.
> He is such a troll and child, he clearly doesn't understand that he should not have an opinion and if he ever expresses it, it should be to influence others.
> ...


Stick to your guns. You are doing fine


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

Shawn Lane said:


> Oh gee this person likes to argue for the sake of learning opinions and more about a subject.


I have a question and though it might sound patronising it is not meant in that way. What have you learnt from this thread?


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

About all I've learned from this thread is that the internet continues to both fascinate and repel me. Plenty of truths and great insight - plenty of fictions and disconnects.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Opened for RUSH once, and I had a hard time not walking out. NOT my cup of tea at the time and probably still so.


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## FrankyNoTone (Feb 27, 2012)

It could be that Buckethead is butt ugly like Gene Simmons, maybe prematurely balding with a scabby birthmark on his scalp. Maybe he had a horrible accident in the kitchen with the deep frier. So I'm willing to cut him some slack but I still wouldn't go to one of his concerts because there wouldn't be any collateral cougar/milf action I could pick up like at a Bon Jovi concert.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

So, my only observation/question is this: how is a KFC bucket on your head and wearing a mask NOT a gimmick?

It's a gimmick. If he didn't want a gimmick he'd just be a dude out there playing guitar. It may not be the stupidest gimmick that has ever existed but it is the stupidest gimmick that I have ever seen.


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## vanderkalin (Sep 4, 2009)

FrankyNoTone said:


> It could be that Buckethead is butt ugly like Gene Simmons, maybe prematurely balding with a scabby birthmark on his scalp. Maybe he had a horrible accident in the kitchen with the deep frier. So I'm willing to cut him some slack but I still wouldn't go to one of his concerts because there wouldn't be any collateral cougar/milf action I could pick up like at a Bon Jovi concert.


holy shit, I just spit my coffee out, thanks dude.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

LOL for gimmicks these guys were for me the top of the lot










Though to see them these guys impressed me less than to hear them










But then as a young person I once upon a time had a 12 inch Mohawk that was brilliantly blond. Had that for nearly 20 years of my life. That, the coat the boots the locks of hair of girls I knew as necklaces and so on and you could call those decades my own personal gimmick years  Wish I had photos of then LOL awww well.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

What is up with Gwar? Is that supposed to be some sort of stage performance/musical experiment?


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Well from the Wiki:



> *Gwar* is a satirical heavy metal band formed in Richmond, Virginia, United States, in 1984. The band is well known for its elaborate science fiction/horror film inspired costumes, obscene lyrics and graphic stage performances, which feature humorous enactments of politically and morally taboo themes.


I never warmed to them. In terms of silly and uniformed silly I am more a fan of The Bloodhound Gang. At least I can mental space their stage performance/persona better. I don't know, maybe I am just getting older LOL










The Bloodhound Gang - The Bad Touch ( Eiffel 65 Video Edit P!nKy ) - YouTube


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Great thread, not sure how many go to 12 pages around here so it’s been great reading, couple good laughs on this page alone.

Now regardless of whether you like him or not, surely as players all you guys have some respect for his abilities, so we could ask ourselves where the line is between gimmick and disguise, perhaps that’s the point the troll is trying to make. 

I’m mean it’s clear the guy easily has the talent to kick the bucket and play looking any way he wants – seems he plays plenty and attracts crowds even with the bucket…maybe he just wants to hide…personally I think doing something so utterly ridiculous and still selling out the venues he’s playing is pretty funny. 

Even though I wouldn’t spend a minute to sit and listen to 90% of what he plays, there’s no doubt he doesn’t need a gimmick, so I get the feeling it’s a disguise...what say you?


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

I bet Buckethead never did the Joan Rivers show though:

Gwar on Joan - YouTube


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Intrepid said:


> What is up with Gwar? Is that supposed to be some sort of stage performance/musical experiment?


GWAR usually has some kind of political/protest theme on each tour. They build characters for each theme and while the concert is going on they play out the message using characters and such. So for them, it goes well beyond the music.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

EVERYTHING we do in life IS a gimmick. From the cloths we wear to the jewellery we adorn ourselves with. Even going NUDE is a gimmick. It all says "look at me this is what I believe I am".

If you cannot make for yourself a cocoon to shield yourself from the rawness of reality, that reality will soon leave you a raw meat, unable to have likes or hates, friends or family or relationships with yourself or others. Without persona's for day and for night and for friends and for family and for the family making thing we are not more than meat that moves and mews our despair. We are nothing as meat, just a thing to feed and to wipe. I watched a man become meat strapped to a hospital gurney with successive paralysis due successive strokes over a decade before he died. I watched his pee bag empty on the floor. I watched him get a colostomy bag because his anus was inflamed from all the shit left there all day long. I watched him die in pieces, little bits go and leave and be gone. In the end he was a skeletal figure of a human with no persona left him. That was what I grew up watching from birth till I was 10. When life denies you the ability to put on a cloak of identity you are nothing more than my what my late uncle was while dying in a hospital bed, even if you can walk around and make mouth noise.


So yea, call it whatever you want. It doesn't matter. What you will call it is YOUR Gimmick. It is YOUR identity. It is YOUR THING MAN YOURS AND YOURS ALONE. Make it yours, call it yours, I don't really care. Just glad you ain't a person who is strapped to a hospital bed dying with pee bags and colostomy bags and nurses that are indifferent.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

http://bucketheadland.com/bucketheadscoop/snoopandbootsyeddie.jpg
Looking at this picture I guess Buckethead's gimmick ain't that bad. No worse than long hair, a beard, black leather and a Harley. And, from what I've heard on Utube, the guy can play. There's even one or two songs I might listen too again....but not the one where he "plays" banjo. You shouldn't do that to a banjo. 
As far as Shawn Lane goes, yeah, his posts at times seem to go off in many directions and sometimes he's really not clear as to what his point is at the moment, but, he got me to listen to music I probably wouldn't have listened to otherwise. 
I'm just wondering, since this is a guitar based forum, what guitar/amp combination he plays. Just wondering.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

I dont "play" I "futz" my son is the musical person in my immediate family. We have a few guitars, a few flutes, a few keyboards, a few drum kits and most recently a violin in the home. YAY to L&M financing over the last 10 years. Main amp really is an MP8 Yorkville mixer though we have a Fender somethingorother 20 (its buried at the moment). Me, in futzing I like to explore ideas of song and music, of music creation and tone. Effects and amps too  Mostly though, I like the folk here, and I like to support my son who is fast growing up and will soon be on his own. He is 13 years old now and it amazes me how grown up he is and how childish he is all the time 

I have also spent the past hour listening to Buckethead. I actually like his playing a lot and thank the existence of this thread for putting me onto his music.

Vocal music, and instrumental music are both heard by the ear but listened to by different parts of the brain. The split in liking one or the other is akin to the split between left and right handedness. In music I am ambidextrous as I like both equally


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

keeperofthegood said:


> I have also spent the past hour listening to Buckethead. I actually like his playing a lot and thank the existence of this thread for putting me onto his music.


This dude is likely stealing from Page, which in turn stole from others. Nothing original here, just a gimmick! I don't think this guy is unique, nor creative, nor capable. Stop wasting your time! Really ;-)


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

starjag said:


> This dude is likely stealing from Page, which in turn stole from others. Nothing original here, just a gimmick! I don't think this guy is unique, nor creative, nor capable. Stop wasting your time! Really ;-)


hahaha  well it goes good while I am doing things about the house and it is cool to not have words to mess up with the music. It is 'listenable' and that is a good thing, just like soundtracks to video games (which is what I am listening to now). Not hearing anything to gaww about but not hearing anything to gnash teeth about either 


The Beeb on the other hand


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

and yes, one sounds akin to the other. It doesn't matter in the long run. Liking doesn't always equate to greatness, though some banality is harder to bare than other banality. At the very least I can listen to Buckethead far longer than Nickleback  What is almost impossible is listening to my son's school band doing Thriller kkjq



"Hello there, how are you?"
[video=youtube;QJXu_J7AglY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJXu_J7AglY[/video]

"I'm fine, thank you for asking"
[video=youtube;LyWq25O2RbI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyWq25O2RbI[/video]


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

I'm guessing Stevie was better in the bus than on the stage back then.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Hey, don't knock the Beeb. 18, lots of money, lots of fluff, his girlfriend is passable tho a little young for me but the same could be said for his mom. When the grand daughters are here, I have to "listen" to him sometimes. But I draw the line at video games. Classic rock and pinball or a pool table work for me. And I hear what you're saying about school bands and Thriller. I did 5 years of my son slowly getting better on the clarinet.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

HAHA The Beeb has had a ride  that is for sure. Band(s) are fun. My daughter is 10 and colour guard in the Burlington Jr. Redcoats not sure if she will play a band instrument yet (the violin is hers), my son did flute there last year and is flute this year at his school and if the highschool doesn't get a full band will probably be in drumline. They both follow in the many generations of musicians in the families footsteps and it is great to see and hear.

In the end you know, I don't LIKE everything in music but then who does? There are lots I flat out cringe to hear (MJ being one). But my tastes are mine  and others are theirs. I went through that teen phase of "_how could you even LISTEN to that trash_", and at times I still find I feel that way but I tend more to bite my tongue than to say anything (age and maturity and all that, though some days its a hard one to manage and sometimes I don't listen to my self and rag on some musician and then go about hating on myself for it later). The Beeb and Nickleback I may not like, may even dislike. However, what I really typically feel is as I feel about, say, Mariah Carey. A good voice and a good octave range, with that she could have done a LOT more than she did but she stayed inside a very narrow niche and never grew (from my view point). Another singer, Hayley Westenra also with a good voice and a good octave range and she did do more moving out of the solo soprano opera niche. Of the two, Hayley is the one I spent money on, she has been much more interesting over time to listen to.

Blah blah blah blathering blah blah and so on


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

keeperofthegood said:


> Mariah Carey. A good voice and a good octave range, with that she could have done a LOT more than she did but she stayed inside a very narrow niche and never grew (from my view point).


Damn she was good when she first hit the music scene. Then she got with the record producer or record company owner (well, I think she was with him when she signed - get your skin by being rich and powerful...difficult to argue with that) and after she became well known, got into shaking her azz in videos and having music that was declining in depth rather than keeping even or trying to push anything greater. Compare Emotion to anything she has done since her 2nd record.


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