# Push My Marshall



## Drazden (Oct 26, 2007)

Alright, I'm starting my pedal hunt.

My pedalboard currently consists of:
A Boss BF-2 :smile:

I'm going to be picking up a Bad Horsie II in the next few months, as well as probably a DD-6 but I'm in the mood for a distortion pedal to put in front of my Marshall DSL50.

I've got an Ibanez UE300 multifx with a Tubescreamer in it, and I like that, but I'd like something a little more versatile.

Looking on the posts and threads here already, I'm leaning towards the Diamond J-Drive or the Jekyll & Hyde. I was wondering what kind of experiences everybody's had with these pedals?

I'm looking for something that can take me from Hendrixy overdrive (which the Marshall's pretty much got down cold on the green channel) to fire-breathing metal (which it pretty much has down cold on the red channel.) I'm not such a scooped-mid kind of guy, though. 

I'm really looking for something that can get me into the territory of Jag from I Mother Earth. Singing, full notes, but still clear.

*whew* Thanks to anybody who manages to read that whole thing!


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## chesterb (May 28, 2006)

OCD, nuff said


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

+1 on the OCD! One of the best Overdrive/distortion I ever heard! Since I've got mine I'm in heaven!


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

Drazden said:


> I'm really looking for something that can get me into the territory of Jag from I Mother Earth. Singing, full notes, but still clear.


And you can't get that stacking the TubeScreamer on top of the amp now?

You can try the OCD. Nice pedal.

But if you really want that long, long singing sustain try running guitar -> TS -> compressor -> amp. Put that compressor after the tube screamer.

I have to go dust off _Dig_ now. I haven't listened to that album in a long time.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

I would recommend against the OCD for your Marshall DSL50. I have the same amp and bought an OCD to put in front, but I've found that they are not a good combo. The OCD makes the Marshall sound WAY too compressed and bassy sounding, even on minimal gain settings on the OCD. I've had much more luck using a Tube Screamer type pedal (I use a DGTM or a Route 66 overdrive) with the gain turned down and the volume turned up - more of a boost than an overdrive. 

I normally set up the drive channel to give me a nice crunching chord sound for my rhythm activities, and then I turn on the tube screamer to push it over the top for leads.


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## Drazden (Oct 26, 2007)

That's exactly what I'm doing right now, but I find I'd like just a little more, for that 'push over the cliff' type of thing. 

Make no mistake. This rig, combined with my Soloist, gets me 90% of the way there. But it's just a little too 'fizzy,' I guess. There's lots of top end to it that I find difficult to dial out. Plus, the pedal I'm using is in pretty rough shape. It sounds great, but the power cord's all chewed up--I don't think it's long for this world. I'd rather spare it as much wear and tear as I can.

Is there anywhere I can go in Toronto that has OCD's or other boutiquey kind of overdrive/boosts in stock?


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

Drazden said:


> Make no mistake. This rig, combined with my Soloist, gets me 90% of the way there. But it's just a little too 'fizzy,' I guess. There's lots of top end to it that I find difficult to dial out.


Have you tried changing the tubes? V1 and V2 in the preamp and new power tubes? Check out the descriptions at http://thetubestore.com/ -- or email them and they'll recommend something.



> Plus, the pedal I'm using is in pretty rough shape. It sounds great, but the power cord's all chewed up--I don't think it's long for this world. I'd rather spare it as much wear and tear as I can.


That's understandable. If you dig it's sound I bet Greg at Solid Gold FX could re-house it for you. Or at least the TS portion of it. You can also play around with the new re-issues or try and find a used TS-9. The nice thing about that UM unit is it has an almost exact, original TS-9 circuit in it.



> Is there anywhere I can go in Toronto that has OCD's or other boutiquey kind of overdrive/boosts in stock?


The 12th Fret
Capsule Music
Moog Audio

And Long & McQuade and Steve's carry a fair bit of high end stuff like Diamond as well.


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## GuitaristZ (Jan 26, 2007)

the Jekyll and Hyde works well for me...very versatile. Try it out though, as it may not fit with the pickups, etc you have...just to be sure.


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## Kapo_Polenton (Jun 20, 2007)

Seeing as the OCD simulates a marshall amp, I would think it best with one of the older Marshalls like the plexi,JMP's, or JCM 800's or anything based on that 2204 circuit. So the real question is how distorted do you run the DSL? I am assuming you set it to modest gain and then engage the pedal correct? Will you be counting on the pedal to take you to metal country or the combination of preamp gain and pedal gain? I would recommend the following: 

Bad Monkey! TS clone from digitech, cheap. I dig it with my Laney
BB preamp, very smooth and thick, lots of gain on top to push an amp
SD-1 , but it can sound thin
DOD 250 - the new cheap ones, push the amp with that for the Randy Rhoads sound. 

Lots of options.. pedals can get ridiculously epensive considering they all do the same thing. (just differently) If the amp is arleady providing the majority of the distortion, i wouldn't spend 400$ on a pedal.


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## Drazden (Oct 26, 2007)

Well, my list of things to try is as follows:

TS9 or 808 tubescreamer reissue
Fulltone OCD
Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive
Diamond J-Drive
Digitech Bad Monkey
DOD 250 (Malmsteen)

Yeah, I like to set my amplifier to get a pushed clean sound on the green channel and a nice, chunky rhythm sound on the red channel. I use the UE300 to push it over the top into a liquid, sustainy kind of thing for solos and just for some extra 'kick' in rhythm parts. I find the red channel compresses my tone too much.

I played a Sparkle Drive a year or so ago and loved it through a Marshall handwired JTM combo. I'm really looking for something that can add some dirt, but mostly be a boost. That's why the J-drive and Jekyll and Hyde are so appealing--the dual-footswitch.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

I would follow Kapo_Polentons advice and try a Bad Monkey first. I've tried a bunch of boost/drive pedals with my DSL50 and the Bad Monkey is equal to any of them - especially when the amp is already "chunky" and you're just using it as a boost to give you the extra juice.


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## Kapo_Polenton (Jun 20, 2007)

In the immotal words of the ING guy, "Save your money!". 50$ on a bad monkey and you might be where you want to be. I run mine with the level at 2 and gain at zero, works just fine if the power tubes are cooking.


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

Absolutely try a monkey. If you don't like it, I'll buy if off of you! Heh. I use the Jekyll and Hyde myself now. The good thing about both of these is that they are both 808's (The OD side of the J&H is) with additional bass options. 

If you like the 808 sound and are hoping for just a little something extra by adding the second channel of the J&H, you might have a hard time doing it. The second channel is distortion and is by no means flat or clean. You might find a little more of what you want with say a Fulltone FD-2. The downside of the Fulltone is that the boost and the drive channels aren't independently switchable. That is, if you don't have the OD channel (Which is 808 based again) engaged, it doesn't work. The boost also runs into the OD on this pedal so it will get louder, sure, but it also will drive the OD harder.

Another good option might be a Vexter Box of Rock. It has independent OD and Boost and ZVex's boost is one of the best in the business. The boost channel is actually a modified Super Hard On circuit which is altered to sound a little more natural. There's a great demo of this pedal on the ZVex site. The boost in this pedal comes after the "distortion engine" so it is a very nice clean boost that will either make your OD pedal louder (if engaged) or push the amp a little harder without affecting the tonality of it.

The J-Drive is a great pedal but that depends on your tastes too. There are different versions of this pedal, of course, and the common complaint about the newest one (Mk. III) is that it is a little dark. I find it is. You control bass presence by a "warmth" knob but the brightness is only controlled though an on/off switch. Though they are different pedals, the monkey seemed to be much more versatile to me.

Have fun! It can be a long and expensive journey!


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## Drazden (Oct 26, 2007)

'Dark' may be just what I'm looking for. I run very trebly guitars (Strats and Strat derivatives) and my flanger does add a bit of metallic top end to the signal. I'm unhappy with that part of my tone--if an overdrive could tame it just through its own character, that'd make me happy. 

The J-Drive moves up the list, I guess, haha.


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## GuitaristZ (Jan 26, 2007)

just to let you know...the DSL is a VERY trebly amp...and let me just relate a bit of experience here...


Until last week, I had a problem with the DSL's bright spiking tone...it was always a bit bright for me...
I was running a strat and a PRS copy into my amp...both with really good pickups (the prs with about 250$ worth of duncans).

Anyway, last week I strung up my old Jackson guitar (a cheap one I got a long time ago for like 250$) and I wired the stock pickups in direct to the output jack...


Man....that seriously sounded amazing...so smooth and fat...the tone wasnt overly bright, yet it was still as clear as could be. I am seriously happy.

Oh...also...I tried using the Jekyll and Hyde's EQ settings to tame down the treble, but that works just like a tone knob I guess...it does tame the treble, but you lose some clarity, at least in my case.
But that guitar....wow...blew my mind that a cheapo guitar could sound so good...I guess those pickups and guitar just like the amp a lot lool


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## erikm5150 (Mar 3, 2006)

i think the Boss SD-1 (stock or better modded) was made to push a marshall.


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## Kapo_Polenton (Jun 20, 2007)

> i think the Boss SD-1 (stock or better modded) was made to push a marshall.


I think you may be right... I pulled mine out of the closet yesterday and between it and the Bad Monkey, I am getting some killer tones from my JCM 800. Just think, two of the cheapest pedals out there and they absolutely kill.


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## Drazden (Oct 26, 2007)

I still haven't managed to get downtown to try out any of the boutiquey or non-boutiquey pedals on a DSL... And with all the slight-but-noticeable-tweak-of-a-Tubescreamer style overdrives out there, I'm not going to buy anything until I play it first...

Unless it's a wicked deal. Hahaha.


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## plato67 (Jan 13, 2008)

+1 on the Bad Monkey. It never met an amp it didn't like.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

www.bodenhamer-electronics.com

tell joe what kind of tone you're going for from a TS/SD-1, and he should be able to tailor one to get you pretty stinkin close. Joe does great work on modding pedals, and even though the name might not be for you, you may want to investigate into his bloody murder OD pedal.

i have a TS7ovChaos and it is a great pedal. www.sevenstring.org/forum - search for bodenhamer electronics/TSovChaos reviews and see what you find.

a TS7 modded to 808 specs would run you under $80 w/ shipping im pretty sure.


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## Drazden (Oct 26, 2007)

Budda said:


> www.bodenhamer-electronics.com
> 
> tell joe what kind of tone you're going for from a TS/SD-1, and he should be able to tailor one to get you pretty stinkin close. Joe does great work on modding pedals, and even though the name might not be for you, you may want to investigate into his bloody murder OD pedal.
> 
> ...


Cool! Thanks for the link! I'm a little unsure about the cross-border shipping, though. Think I'd be better to play everything a bit before I decide.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

TS7 + mod cost me $85 shipped. i wouldnt worry about it.

i didnt get my $7 discount because he didnt know i was a member at sevenstring.org, but ah well haha


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## Drazden (Oct 26, 2007)

I got a great deal on a used J-Drive. Plugging it into my Marshall has yielded almost exactly the results I'm looking for. This thing sounds amazing. The clean boost boosts the clean channel into a nice light overdrive, and the overdrive channel into the high-gain channel is thickening it up nicely. The warmth knob is very, very sensitive, and I can't really discern any difference at all from the 'raw/compressed' switch.

*shrug*

We'll see how this goes. It's definitely got a lot of bottom end to it. But it warrants a thumbs-up, that's for sure. Great sounding pedal.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Drazden said:


> I got a great deal on a used J-Drive.
> 
> But it warrants a thumbs-up, that's for sure. Great sounding pedal.


Good to hear. I'm looking at either the Fulldrive or the J-Drive myself since I'm no longer using a channel switching amp. Although I have one TS9, I might end up just getting another.


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## Drazden (Oct 26, 2007)

Haha, here's a picture of my new acquisition.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

hollowbody said:


> Good to hear. I'm looking at either the Fulldrive or the J-Drive myself since I'm no longer using a channel switching amp. Although I have one TS9, I might end up just getting another.


perhaps just get it modded?

drez, glad to hear you dig your latest piece o' the gear pie.


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## bluesbird (Oct 30, 2007)

I have an ocd & modded sd-1, but i still can't push my 800. Does anyone use a B.O.R, and recommend one?


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

I've never tried a DSL50, but I have to say an attenuator (Hotplate) is the ticket for me with my JCM800.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

neno said:


> I have an ocd & modded sd-1, but i still can't push my 800. Does anyone use a B.O.R, and recommend one?


Try the MI Audio Crunch Box, it is voiced after a JCM800. The BOR sound leans toward the Plexi sound.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Don't know whether you are up for building anything but I have been told that this little puppy l whipped up does a very nice job of pushing a Marshall. http://hammer.ampage.org/files/The_Crank.gif You can find a nice set of project documents for it here: http://gaussmarkov.net/wordpress/circuits/crank/

It provides a gain of just over 40, which will pummel your Marshall's front end nicely. It rolls off some of the top end as the gain goes up in anticipation of what will happen to the amp's front end. Although there are clipping diodes in it, there is not really anough gain in the circuit for it to be an actual distortion. The diodes will add a wee bit of grit when the gain is dimed, but mostly it just provides a little bit of coloration. More muscle than something like an MXR Microamp provides. Some folks have told me it compares favourably to other "name" boosters.

I was able to get all the parts for it at Honson Electronics in Toronto.


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## bluesbird (Oct 30, 2007)

Chito said:


> Try the MI Audio Crunch Box, it is voiced after a JCM800. The BOR sound leans toward the Plexi sound.


I like the plexi sound, in fact I'm looking for one too. The crunchbox is an ok pedal, but would rather get something with more gain. I looked into the BOR already, overall I was impressed. However, I find its one of the those pedals that with time, you start by depreciating it i.e. MT-2.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

> The crunchbox is an ok pedal, but would rather get something with *more gain*.


More gain????   I thought you said you needed something to push your Marshall? You're saying you need more gain after using the CB on an overdriven Marshall?

BTW, the BOR also has less gain than the CB.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

There is gain and there is output. They are related but not the exact same thing. If I apply a gain of 500, clip, go through some passive loss via an EQ circuit, then apply 500x gain again, re-clip, and attenuate before feeding to the output, I can have huge amounts of gain internal to the pedal, but a fairly modest output level and only modest push of the amp's input stage. Conversely, if I have an unconstrained gain of 30x (i.e., no clipping, no passive loss via a tone circuit), the output level of that pedal may be huge and its impact on the amp's front end considerable.

That is not to say one shold be forced to consider whether you want the sound of the amp OR the sound of the pedal. It is possible to get more desirable sounds from the amp by virtue of the tone of whatever signal you push the amp with, not simply pushing the amp harder or softer. But you still have to ask yourself how much you want the amp to contribute to the overall sound. The harder you push the front end, the more the amp's sound will tend to be a product of the preamp stage, rather than the power amp stage. Some people like that,and that's fine. But if you are searching for more power-amp stage tone, then pushing the front end with a high-gain pedal is not going to get it for you. That is true of any amp, not just Marshalls.

Having said that, when people want to push their amp, their goal is generally some sort of breakup. Typically, that is also a function of not only the input signal level, but the constancy of that input signal, such that the signal remains above the threshold for producing clipping for a longer percentage of its lifespan. If all you have is a very quick transient peak at the point of picking, and the note quickly decays down to some sub-threshold sustain level, you won't get the desired effect. One of the reasons why people like to use distortion pedals before an amp is because distortions have a "natural compression" built into them that provides that more constant steady level. The trick is achieving that modest compression without injecting too much clipping.


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