# Before and after Roasted Pau Ferro fingerboards :-)



## HadesRoastedMap (Dec 5, 2013)

OK,
My latest experiment. I love Brazilian rosewood when it comes to fingerboards but the import/exporting nuisances = too much to risk. 
So here's what I tried and I like it allot!!!!!! 

Let me know what you guys think?

I bought a 3" wide 6 foot long Pau Ferro board (aka Bolivian Rosewood) and roasted it to a secret temperature (ok not so secret). But I did get some checking so I will have to change my profile for this wood. 
This is the result. I kept a cut off of the original board (left piece) to show the color difference. 









Also notice the shrinkage in the height and width of the before and after pieces! I did not expect that but of course Pau Ferro has moister like all woods.











Then I ripped 3 fingerboards from on of the 21" long pieces. They look amazing in my opinion.

















:sSc_eeksign:I might just have solved Gibson's Rosewood problem:sFun_dancing:


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Those grains came out gorgeous. How do they compare for hardness against Brazilian rosewood?


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## HadesRoastedMap (Dec 5, 2013)

This stuff is harder and finer grained than brazilian rosewood, and thats before roasting. After roasting it should be even harder. The blanks above are drum sanded to 80 grit so you can't see the wood that well. But I was told this stuff polished like glass! Check out the Pau Ferro section on Warmoth http://www.warmoth.com/guitar/necks/neckwoods.aspx

Hades Roasted Maple


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

That looks great, really love the grain.


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## Erich (Apr 23, 2013)

Hmm... I don't know anything about roasting wood, but you mentioned it gets harder from roasting.. Which may be a concern down the road... Since roasting the wood makes it harder, that will effectively change it's tone.

For example, If you take a piece of ebony and hold it with your fingernails by a corner, and tap the wood, you'll hear a high pitch "Ting" kind of sound, almost like metal. Rosewood, however, will provide a lower pitched "Thwap" kind of sound when tapped. This is because Ebony is very hard, thus it provides a higher Treble range and lower Bass range of sound. While Rosewood is not as hard, thus it provides better mid range tones. So the more you roast the Rosewood, the harder it gets, and the further away from the mid range tones it will get causing it to have a very tinny sound. 

So you may want to do some testing. Use a few chunks of scrap wood and check the tone several times throughout the process in an effort to discern the "sweet spot", so to speak; of how far you can roast the wood before the tone changes too much for your liking... You may find you can roast it further, or perhaps that you don't want to roast it past a certain point. Depending on the sound of the wood, and the sound you want for the instrument, this testing could yield some valuable results for your future builds.

Cheers!


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## HadesRoastedMap (Dec 5, 2013)

Just happens I'm an electrical engineer and work in the field of acoustics sensors(underwater but close enough). I have access to audio measurement equipment(audio spectrum analyzers) but I'm not quite sure on setup and repeatability.
Is there a standard test which is done to establish "tap tone". In my mind allot of variables would come into play. Thickness of the wood, method of holding the unit under test, tool used to tap the test unit etc... 
I would love to spend some time doing some testing but lack the experience of the "tap tone" test? To me using audio measurement equipment would take the human aspect out of the equation and would report only facts, i.e. Does the frequency increase of decrease after roasting, does it make for tighter tones (more defined fundamental frequency), does it affect the amplitude, sustain (how long the wave form lasts after a tap) etc...
I know Music Man has done allot of testing on the roasted maple and it pretty much improves all parameters in maple! Not sure about Pau Ferro, but one thing is for sure, the color is exactly what I was looking for. So from that point I'm very happy. 

Also I've notice that my strat body is very resonant (Roasted Poplar core with roasted flame maple top and back). Again not much experience to compare it to, but if I "accidentally" hit it on something while moving it (not that I do this on purpose  it resonates at a mid range tone (compared to maple). Again I could measure what frequency that is and compare it to regular maple using facts.
All very interesting to me, but lack the real world experience to take it further. If any one has analytical data which I could go by that would be great and could post some results!

Hades Roasted Maple


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

That is some beautiful wood!


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## Erich (Apr 23, 2013)

HadesRoastedMap said:


> Just happens I'm an electrical engineer and work in the field of acoustics sensors(underwater but close enough). I have access to audio measurement equipment(audio spectrum analyzers) but I'm not quite sure on setup and repeatability.
> Is there a standard test which is done to establish "tap tone". In my mind allot of variables would come into play. Thickness of the wood, method of holding the unit under test, tool used to tap the test unit etc...
> I would love to spend some time doing some testing but lack the experience of the "tap tone" test? To me using audio measurement equipment would take the human aspect out of the equation and would report only facts, i.e. Does the frequency increase of decrease after roasting, does it make for tighter tones (more defined fundamental frequency), does it affect the amplitude, sustain (how long the wave form lasts after a tap) etc...
> I know Music Man has done allot of testing on the roasted maple and it pretty much improves all parameters in maple! Not sure about Pau Ferro, but one thing is for sure, the color is exactly what I was looking for. So from that point I'm very happy.
> ...



Lots of excellent questions.. sadly I have no real experience in this area... However, there are lots of guys around who could assist you... William "Bill" Cumpiano comes to mind. He is a guy who was really active in everything related to wood and preservation of exotic woods, a while back anyway... I think he's still around... He may share his insight with you on this if you emailed him... You may be able to track down a few others well versed in their knowledge of tone woods, I am sure many are out there.. Other than that, Try to remember back to high school science class.. Figure out a scientific procedure, use equal sized test pieces, time the exact amount roasting, keep track of all your figures... Maybe make use of a spreadsheet program to help organize and calculate the data... I'm sure with a bit of thought you could figure out a decent testing method. 

Here's one link i found which is kind of related, a post by Bill on another forum regarding tone woods... http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209953 

Here's the link to Bills Blog page.. http://dolcecano.blogspot.ca/ 

Hope that helps point you in the right direction! I really look forward to hearing the results of your efforts!


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## HadesRoastedMap (Dec 5, 2013)

Read some of Bill's posts and looks to me like he is more in the camp of folks which think 'wood does not play that big of a part' in the final sound... 
I guess the best way for now is to get a neck made with this stuff as a fretboard and then slap it on a guitar and see how is sounds. Then swap to another neck and see the difference. By see the difference I mean measure it with an audio analyzer. I'm up for that. I'm getting 4 necks made by Mike Potvin and some will have those exact pieces of Pau Ferro fingerboards. We'll just have to wait and see! Stay tuned.
Thanks,

Hades Roasted Maple


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## Erich (Apr 23, 2013)

Yes, I noticed that as well.. At first I thought he was arguing the same thing.. but after some thought, I think his point isn't so much that the type of wood doesn't matter, but rather, that the traditionally recognized "best" tone woods aren't the be all and end all. That you don't HAVE to use real Brazilian rosewood. That you can make very nice sounding instruments from the other "lesser" valuable tone woods on the market. And that musicians shouldn't value an instrument only based on the type of wood, but by the sound of the instrument... Which I think is an admirable position to take.


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## Macki (Jun 14, 2010)

Wow those are sweet looking necks and wood (I love your strat build thread too).


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2014)

I love the look of that. Looking forward to your progress.

Came across this.

[video=youtube;y3JhauyBQ8Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3JhauyBQ8Y[/video]


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## Erich (Apr 23, 2013)

Ahh.. so i had it backwards about the rosewood and ebony.. cool video!


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## HadesRoastedMap (Dec 5, 2013)

Very nice information in that video and answers allot of the questions I had in my mind and makes my audio analyzer test allot more difficult  You almost need a human ear involved to pick up all those subtle differences. He says the pitch (or fundamental frequency ) is more related to the size of the piece. So I would have to cut every test piece to the exact same size. Doable. Sustain is easy to measure! But when it comes to all those other resonant frequencies, it becomes difficult to interpret those on the screen of an analyzer compared to your hear which is wonderful at picking up those harmonics. 

Thanks again for the video laristotle.

If anyone is interested in some of these Pau Ferro fingerboards, drop me a PM.

Hades Roasted Maple


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2014)

You're welcome Hades. Just curious, how much for a fret board? say 22fret gibson spec?
Oh, and fretted if possible (I'd be useless trying to measure/cut/fret it myself.lol).



HadesRoastedMap said:


> :sSc_eeksign:I might just have solved Gibson's Rosewood problem:sFun_dancing:


You may want to patent your process once you've found your magic temp/timing formula.


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## HadesRoastedMap (Dec 5, 2013)

As for the Pau Ferro fretboard, I could sell you the wood and have Mike Potvin do the work! I'm to new at this to guarantee a good job!
Let me know if that works and I can get a price from Mike. The wood would be $15.
Thanks

Hades Roasted Maple


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## HadesRoastedMap (Dec 5, 2013)

Did some more Roasting over the week-end and solved the checking issue on the Pau Ferro! I'm good to go for full production if anyone wants this Roasted Pau Ferro!!

Hades Roasted Maple.


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## Erich (Apr 23, 2013)

You should set up a website with your curly maple and roasted ferro for all this nice wood you offer.  

What were the results of your testing by the way? Did roasting make any real difference to the tone in the end?


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## HadesRoastedMap (Dec 5, 2013)

Did not get a chance to do the testing just yet. I've talked to many who use this wood(not roasted) for fingerbaords and love it. Right now I can't keep what I'm producing in stock! Nice problem to have I know. I plan on producing more Pau Ferro this week-end (if things slow down a bit).

You can find my stuff on Facebook and eBay. Just search for "Hades Roasted Maple". I have about 60 items listed on eBay right now. 
I used to have a website but was getting no traffic so I moved strickly to eBay about 5 years ago, but I've been there for 9 years. Just got on facebook a few months back.
Thanks,
Hades Roasted Maple


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## Erich (Apr 23, 2013)

Just checked out ebay. You've got some really nice stuff there! Cheers!


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