# Insomniacs unite



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I thought I would start this thread because there are some of us who's body never knows what regular sleeping hours are.

I follow the protocol:

No coffee after a certain hour

No thought provoking thinking before turning in

A light snack if needed

A dark and sleep conducive room

And no phone or laptop 1/2 hr prior to winding down waiting for the sleep fairy! 

And...........my mind says NO! Let's get this party started! I look at the time and it's 2:30 am! Why?


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Haha, I'm in.

I am regularly awake around 2:00-3:00 am. I try and make myself get up instead of just flopping around and play guitar for an hour or so.


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## vokey design (Oct 24, 2006)

Last night I stood in front of my bedroom window looking at my backyard and beyond for 30 min ... that 30 min window was from 4 to 4:30 am, so I will be looking forward to any advice others have. I have found listening to "mid-fullness mediation" works about 50% of the time for me.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2017)

Watch the political channel on tv.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Count me in. Sometimes I just can't make the monkeys STFU.

I used to like reading (real books) before sleeping but my arms aren't long enough anymore. E-readers can make the print bigger but I don't think that's a good idea before sleep. Lately, I've been listening to a couple books on audio - I'm not getting much out of the content as I graze in and out of consciousness, but they do put me to sleep sometimes. Sometimes not.

I just know after one bad night, the next is usually better (because I'm so fricken tired). And for when it goes on for a few nights, there's always Halcyon.

Often, I'll get to sleep and then wake up 3 or 4 hours later (like 3 AM) and feel fully rested. When I retire, I'm thinking I might try to change my pattern to a couple of 3 or 4 hours sleeps in a 24 hour period, roughly 12 hours apart. I believe a few people, like Einstein, did this as they go older.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Sleep Better By Using a Blue Light Filter on Your Phone or Computer


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Your post would have been more credible, had it been written at 4 AM. %h(*&


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I have to rise at least once per night to take a whizz and sometimes I just can't get back to sleep. Other times I just wake up inexplicably. I think hypertension might be a contributing factor.

A glass of water at bed time, deliberate deep breathing, comfort in ventilation/temperature/humidity/noise/bedding, peace of mind, can all help, as can good digestion and some light exercise an hour or so before. Sexual activity can help as well, but isn't always frequent enough to deal with the issue.


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## oldfartatplay (May 22, 2017)

Seroquel and Cipralex put me to sleep almost every time, but when they don't, the Melatonin does. Kratom and weed are adjunct helpers, for those REALLY bad nights. Being manic depressive ain't easy......


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## NorlinNorm (Dec 31, 2016)

Lola said:


> I thought I would start this thread because there are some of us who's body never knows what regular sleeping hours are.
> 
> I follow the protocol:
> 
> ...


Such a terrible affliction, on occasion I have been awake for 36 hrs straight, not funny when working 12 hr shifts!!


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## StratCat (Dec 30, 2013)

I have trouble falling a sleep at night and staying asleep at night. My wife is out cold 5 minutes after her head hits the pillow and is a deep sleeper. She gets it from her father, he is the same.

My eldest son is like me and has trouble falling asleep at night. My youngest son takes after his mother - out like a light. They have been like that since they were born. So there is definitely something hereditary going on.

My wife bought me a Fitbit last year, and it helps in 2 ways - 1. a reminder to put Guitars Canada away for the night 30 minutes before I go to bed and 2. A target sleep duration and monitoring. I have a goal and just having that is helping me to extend my sleep duration when I don't wake up in the night.

And as for waking up in the night, I need to avoid liquids in the evening and stress. The first is easy. The second....is a work in progress. I guess the important thing is knowing the causes so effective change can be realized.

Good luck to all who are seeking better rest. Lack of sleep sucks.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I tried melatonin once and it kept me awake for two fuckin days.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Wardo said:


> I tried melatonin once and it kept me awake for two fuckin days.


My wife takes melatonin occasionally and swear it works. She gave me some one night and I was out quick. Of course I fall asleep every night quick.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I have had the horrible experience of not sleeping one iota and then going to work! I feel just so horrible and then I feel sick to my stomach or I fall asleep for two or three hours and i wake up 4:30 am or some other ungodly hour and I have to get up and do something!

I have Imovane when the going gets ridiculous! Last night I couldn't fall asleep! I really tried hard and then said, screw it! I ate 1/4 cookie and fell asleep within about 45 minutes! I slept until 11:30 because I could, having an afternoon shift!


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I find myself listening to Coast to Coast when I can't sleep, even though the show has been horrible for a while now. 

Of course, there's also this method.....


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

LanceT said:


> Haha, I'm in.
> 
> I am regularly awake around 2:00-3:00 am. I try and make myself get up instead of just flopping around and play guitar for an hour or so.


That is what I resort to as well! It helps me to focus on something else instead of tossing and turning and knowing that everyone else is friggin sleeping and I am NOT! 

My guy friend gets up and does needlepoint if he can't sleep. He said it just helps him to relax. It's actually a hobby for him.There is a group of guys that get together on Tuesday nights. They drink beer and either crochet or needlepoint and talk about the drama on their lives! I think it's a great idea!


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Tonight is just one of those nights. It's 12:25 and I am not the least bit tired. This really sucks because I have to be to work in the morning super early. Tomorrow is going to suck too.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Lola said:


> My guy friend gets up and does needlepoint if he can't sleep. He said it just helps him to relax. It's actually a hobby for him.There is a group of guys that get together on Tuesday nights. They drink beer and either crochet or needlepoint and talk about the drama on their lives! I think it's a great idea!


The View Reboot. Now with more penises.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

On thing that research is showing, very solidly, is screen time: phone, tablet, computer, TV,... stimulation of visual receptors by these ways results in a decrease in secretion of natural melatonin needed to fall asleep. May not affect everyone, but for people who have problems falling asleeep, this is a major contributor.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Robert1950 said:


> On thing that research is showing, very solidly, is screen time: phone, tablet, computer, TV,... stimulation of visual receptors by these ways results in a decrease in secretion of natural melatonin needed to fall asleep. May not affect everyone, but for people who have problems falling asleeep, this is a major contributor.


Yea, I put that issue to bed years ago (pun intended). I don't do any up-close screen time (phone, tablet, cptr) for at least an hour or two before going to sleep. But I do occasionally fall asleep while watching tele and getting ready to go to bed. So that seems to have the opposite effect, sometimes.

What I absolutely cannot do is fall asleep while listening to music. My brain latches on to that music and won't relax or ignore it. Talk radio or audio books can put me right out, but music? Nope. Many decades ago, I had a roommate that insisted on going to bed with the radio on. I just waited for him to fall asleep and then I turned it off.


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

I am currently having trouble. I believe it is related to the night shifts I finished up last Thursday morning. For a while I had trouble getting back to a regular sleep for 2 to 3 days after nights but now those few days are easy. Its seems to be hitting me after that now, which has put me back into day shifts. I have to go to work at 6:00. I have a good sleep routine. I might have a bath and read a book before bed. 

I think it might be the work I am doing. I go none stop for 12 hours processing information in my head and never spending very long on any item as my attention is constantly pulled away by a new permit or new phone call, so my mind gets in this rut of jumping around. You ever had a song stuck in your head? Try five songs that your brain keeps jumping in between every minute or so interspersed with the next area I'll skateboard and bike ride I'll take and book I'll read and trip I'll take and next overtime check and when to go swimming with kids and etc and etc.

For Christs sakes, legalize marijuana all ready!

P.S. You ever tried masturbating to help you go to sleep?


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

dcole said:


> I am currently having trouble. I believe it is related to the night shifts I finished up last Thursday morning. For a while I had trouble getting back to a regular sleep for 2 to 3 days after nights but now those few days are easy. Its seems to be hitting me after that now, which has put me back into day shifts. I have to go to work at 6:00. I have a good sleep routine. I might have a bath and read a book before bed.
> 
> I think it might be the work I am doing. I go none stop for 12 hours processing information in my head and never spending very long on any item as my attention is constantly pulled away by a new permit or new phone call, so my mind gets in this rut of jumping around. You ever had a song stuck in your head? Try five songs that your brain keeps jumping in between every minute or so interspersed with the next area I'll skateboard and bike ride I'll take and book I'll read and trip I'll take and next overtime check and when to go swimming with kids and etc and etc.
> 
> ...


My job sounds similar! I am expected to multitask at work and I have to be excellent at it! I never to get to fully focus on one thing! My mind is always being challenged. While that is both bad and good it's extremely hard for me to shut my mind off!

Marijuana legalization! Tell the politicians to quit dilly dallying, get off there overpaid asses and get 'er done!


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

Im in the same boat. A 1/5th of rye seems to work, but how often can one keep that up! 

Also, having a spare bed away from the wifes snoring is a must, she's finally dealing with her sleep apnea.

Melatonin works well for short bouts. Your brain produces it naturally, so when you use it too much your stocks are already topped up. It does give lots of people crazy dreams, sometimes to the point of being counter productive. Costco has this suppliant called Super Sleep that works even better. It has melatonin, 5htp and something else, but the dreaming is still ridiculous.

I've tried all the routines and tricks and I still fight with insomnia a week or two per month.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I think that some of us are just hard wired to be night Hawks! I really do love staying up really late. It's a little slice of time to do exactly what I want to do. It's almost like a luxury just to have some me time! Everyone is asleep which means I have NO one bugging me to do anything, no interruptions. It's hard to make myself go to sleep though when I am having a great time usually just noodling and practicing.


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## Guest (Jun 15, 2017)

I put true crime documentary style murder shows on my TV, set the timer for 1 hour, and minimize the screen so all I get is audio. I never make it far into the show.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Almost 2 am! I went on Youtube(mistake in the making) and saw the most-coolest ever rendition of David Bowie's Rebel Rebel by 1000 musicians!

Want to play this at Riff wrath. Do excited about the possibilities!

I am my own worst enemy!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Lola said:


> I think that some of us are just hard wired to be night Hawks! I really do love staying up really late. It's a little slice of time to do exactly what I want to do. It's almost like a luxury just to have some me time! Everyone is asleep which means I have NO one bugging me to do anything, no interruptions. It's hard to make myself go to sleep though when I am having a great time usually just noodling and practicing.


While I believe that's one possibility. I also believe a 24 hour circadian rhythm isn't automatic for all of us either.

When I was early 20's, I could sleep till noon. Damn work and alarm clock were very annoying. Now, I'm by 6 every morning (except the ones that I go to bed at 4 or 5). I can still stay up late, if I can make it past 7 or 8 PM. That's when I really feel like getting some ZZZZZ's, after eating and settling in for some tele or reading. But I know if I go to sleep at 8 o'clock, I will wake up 5 or 6 hours later and that really screws me up.

Thus, once I don't have to work to someone else's schedule (i.e. retirement), I may just let my body / circadian rhythms follow their own muse.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I can sleep until noon no problem! Last Saturday I slept in until 1:30 afternoon. I know I needed some sleep but by that time my day effed totally!


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Fell asleep at 3 awake again!


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

I made it better last night. think I fell asleep before 9:30 but awoke at 3:40 to pee. No going back to bed for me. I guess I'll ride my bike to work today.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Not their best - by far - but fitting.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Whoa--look at the time!

Off to bed for me...


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

zontar said:


> Whoa--look at the time!
> 
> Off to bed for me...


Holy crap Zontar! You're away past your curfew!

I have had a sore throat and a really horrible *earache! *Going to the walkin clinic right now! Didn't sleep hardly at all! I forgot how painful earaches can be!


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I went to a sleep clinic two years ago. Found out I had sleep apnea. Thing is, my insomnia predated by a number of years. Insomnia is getting worse the last year. Trying something for the next two months. If that doesn't show improvement, then it is off to the specialist again. Medication has its drawbacks and many are are contraindicated with sleep apnea, so my current choices are limited.

Though I have developed an appreciation for listening to audiobooks (from the library) and space ambient music before bedtime in the process of dealing with all this.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Valerian root. It was supposedly used for relieving menstrual cramps in Victorian times, but I haven't had those in several previous lives. However, the few times I tried some Valerian tea, it put me down hard, VERY hard. The downside is it can smell a little like puke, which is a bit offputting. As with anything, moderation and attention to risks. But it is available, pretty cheap and in my experience effective.

And, as always, for those who do end up either being awakened by their bladder, or simply having a hard time falling asleep, I highly recommend CBC 1 radio. There are a bunch of programs over the course of the night that will make you better informed and smarter, even if you're too sleepy to apply what you learned, such as:
PRI's The World | Public Radio International
Midori House - Radio
Health Report - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Africa | DW

and of course, a repeat of As It Happens.

If you can't get shut-eye, at least you can listen to something to open your eyes a little wider. Sometimes it helps me to fall asleep, sometimes it encourages me to stay up.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Valerian didn't work for me at all. I have run the gamut of different falling to sleep strategies. 

Sometimes chemical intervention is the only thing that works for me! 

Sometimes I will toss and turn because I am replaying a song in my head that I just learnt. Sometimes I will get up at 3:30 am and play guitar for an hour or so! It can be relaxing just to arpeggiate chords, any chords.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

I have no idea how I ever get to sleep, there's so much to do. An iPad is stealing my sleep.

I find it interesting that at one time people didn't sleep all night, they might even go visit the neighbours, but now we think we're defective.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Robert1950 said:


> I went to a sleep clinic two years ago. Found out I had sleep apnea. Thing is, my insomnia predated by a number of years. Insomnia is getting worse the last year. Trying something for the next two months. If that doesn't show improvement, then it is off to the specialist again. Medication has its drawbacks and many are are contraindicated with sleep apnea, so my current choices are limited.
> 
> Though I have developed an appreciation for listening to audiobooks (from the library) and space ambient music before bedtime in the process of dealing with all this.


Me too...sort of. Three overnight assessments and an eventual consult to determine I don't have sleep apnea. Apparently my violent sleeping tendencies and insomnia are something else, God knows what. Meantime...Nytol, in moderation.



mhammer said:


> And, as always, for those who do end up either being awakened by their bladder, or simply having a hard time falling asleep, I highly recommend CBC 1 radio. There are a bunch of programs over the course of the night that will make you better informed and smarter.


We often think that CBC saved my mother's life. For 6 months after she had a stroke, she had to be cared for in a nursing home. When she was better enough she moved in with my sister and lived for several more years, but for 6 months she lay in bed with her beloved headphones on and CBC radio on 24/7. We think it kept her mind from degenerating further, giving her fresh ideas, and helped her brain redevelop and reorient while keeping her up to date with current world affairs and entertained with listenable music.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Hey guys, I just woke up and I'm wondering what you're all talking about.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I run the words to this song through my and usually fall asleep before I get to the end. Also a good way to memorize songs that have lottsa verses ...lol.

Everyone in Nacadoches knew Tom Ame's would come to some bad end
Well the sheriff had caught him stealin' chickens and such
By the time that he was ten

And one day his daddy took a ten dollar bill
And he tucked it in his hand
He said I can tell you're headed for trouble son
And your momma wouldn't understand

So he took that money and his brothers old bay
And he left without a word of thanks
Fell in with a crowd in some border town
And took to robbing banks

Well outside the law your luck will run out fast
And a few years came and went
'Till he's trapped in an alley in Abilene
With all but four shells spent

And he realized praying was the only thing
That he hadn't ever tried
Well he wasn't sure he knew quite how
But he looked up to the sky

Said you don't owe me nothing and as far as I know
Lord don't owe nothing to you
And I ain't asking for a miracle Lord
Just a little bit of luck will do

And you know I ain't never prayed before
But it always seemed to me
That prayin's the same as begging Lord
And I don't take no charity

Yeah but right now with my back to the wall
Can't help but recall
How they nearly hung me for stealing a horse
In Fort Smith Arkansas

Judge Parker said guilty and the gavel came down
Just like a cannon shot
And I went away quietly
And I began to file and plot

Well they sent the preacher down to my cell
He said the Lord is your only hope
He's the only friend that you gonna have
When you hit the end of Parker's rope

Well I guess he could of kept on preaching till Christmas
But he turned his back on me
I put a home made blade to that golden throat
And asked the deputy for the key

Well it ain't the first close call I ever had
As I'm sure you already know
I had some help from you Lord and the devil himself
It's been strictly touch and go
Yeah but who in the hell am I talking to
There ain't no one here but me 

And then he cocked both his pistols and he spit in the dirt
And he walked out in the street


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Wardo said:


> I run the words to this song through my and usually fall asleep before I get to the end. Also a good way to memorize songs that have lottsa verses ...lol.
> 
> Everyone in Nacadoches knew Tom Ame's would come to some bad end
> Well the sheriff had caught him stealin' chickens and such
> ...


Wow! If that don't put you to sleep, ain't nothing going to do it. Lol


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

My wife is one. She finds that drinking actually disrupts her sleep; she drifts off easier but then wakes up and can't go back later.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I have spent a odd night over at my daughter's place. Twice I forgot the medication. It took me 5 to 6 hours, at least, to fall asleep and even then I woke up and fell asleep 3 or 4 times before I dragged myself out of bed. Usually the sound of my grand-daughter screaming and laughing help dissipate any feeling of "nnnnnnnnrrrrrrrrr". No stranger to that bed - lived there for a couple of months before I got my own place in Edmonton.


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## [email protected] (May 15, 2017)

I read this a few weeks back and it works great.
Pick a word without any repeating letters ie. DOG
Think of as many words as you can that start with D
Then O, Then G 
I rarely get past the 2nd letter.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Sometimes one of the side effects of mild chronic insomnia and sleep apnea is a mild pleasant apathy. I've been trying to get up off my ass and go out for the last 45 minutes. I've going now. I thank me for making this post.

Edit: Maybe I should have stayed in... Tried a Taylor 322e today...


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I will focus on different faces in my mind. Or putting an adventure together in my mind! It helps at times. Having a little "medication" before bed is a great help! I don't even remember falling asleep then.


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

Lola said:


> putting an adventure together in my mind!


I do this too. It seems to help, the organizing of the mind and causing it to stay on one track of thought.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

It's not too late yet.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I went to the doctor today so I could get a referral to a migraine clinic. 

They will thoroughly check out everything including my lack of sleep! I may get the answers I need. I certainly hope so.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Fell asleep for 1 hr 20 minutes. Wow! 

Can you say this just sucks.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

That's it, I've had it. This insomnia shit is leaving me chronically tired and pissed off. It now takes me half a day to get off my ass and start doing things. And I think my CPAP machine for sleep apnea has lost it mind (I won't go into that). It is still under warranty, but the manufacturer will only honour it from the original supplier. I got in Toronto and a couple of months later I retired and moved to Edmonton. So I have to pack it up, insure it, and send it in the mail to T.O. I've been to two suppliers here and the second one finally told me how warranty works (and didn't want to charge me a consulting fee either).

So I made an appointment to see my doctor and demand an appointment with a sleep specialist. I had two sleep studies done in Ontario, so it is time for another. Rrrrrrrrrrrrr!!


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

Sorry to hear things aren't going well for you Robert and Lola. I have forced insomnia tonight so I can start 4 night shifts tomorrow. 

I'm loving it!


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I had an unintentional nap after work so it's messed me up.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)




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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

butterknucket said:


>


Would that work on insomniacs?


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

zontar said:


> Would that work on insomniacs?


It's worth a try.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Just got the pressure adjusted on my CPAP machine. Doesn't deal wit the insomnia directly, but still.....


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

The pressure adjustment on my life is what determines how I sleep. Mostly I can control that but life will get you in the end.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

So why am I still up?


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2017)

Robert1950 said:


> Just got the pressure adjusted on my CPAP machine. Doesn't deal wit the insomnia directly, but still.....


Do you have a CPAP or an Auto APAP machine? The auto is the only way to go, as it adjusts between high and low settings. CPAP is constant pressure, and things fluctuate. I had no relief with CPAP, but APAP fixed me up.

The other thing you will need to do is be your own guide, not to rely too much on clinics for help. Total cash grab. I don't know how the health system managed to privatize apnea into a for profit industry, but they did, and it is bad.

There are a couple of good forums where you will get much better help than any clinic. This is the one I use: Apnea Board Forum - Main Apnea Board Forum

First though you need to get the free software "sleepyhead". It will allow you to self monitor your sleep reports on daily weekly monthly periods. What machine do you have? Hopefully it is a newer full reporting one. The clinics can save money by pushing non or minimal reporting units. They call these ones "bricks". The full reporting ones will tell you so much about what is going on... Air leaks, apneas, snores, arreas, etc...

Let me know if I can help.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Player99 said:


> Do you have a CPAP or an Auto APAP machine? The auto is the only way to go, as it adjusts between high and low settings. CPAP is constant pressure, and things fluctuate. I had no relief with CPAP, but APAP fixed me up.


I have a CPAP. I got it just before I retired two years ago in Ontario. Gov't covered most of the cost. Now I am living in Alberta, and they don't help with the cost unless you are just on OAS and CPP (or GIS) only. Next year, if I can spring for the money, I many try to get a demo or refurbished APAP. I will NOT pay for a new one. I just don't have the F-ING funds. And my priorities are a bit off. I had $500 in my gear account (most of that came from selling gear) that is for music gear. It went towards a Taylor GS Mini I just bought, but hey....


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2017)

Robert1950 said:


> I have a CPAP. I got it just before I retired two years ago in Ontario. Gov't covered most of the cost. Now I am living in Alberta, and they don't help with the cost unless you are just on OAS and CPP (or GIS) only. Next year, if I can spring for the money, I many try to get a demo or refurbished APAP. I will NOT pay for a new one. I just don't have the F-ING funds. And my priorities are a bit off. I had $500 in my gear account (most of that came from selling gear) that is for music gear. It went towards a Taylor GS Mini I just bought, but hey....


I am in Ontario. What model CPAP do you have? Go to the forum I posted. Get the manual for your machine so you can change your own settings. Download Sleepyhead and it will show you exactly what's going on.

Once I dialed my machine in, life is much better. Do you know what your sleep study showed? How many apnea events per hour? It is really important to get your apnea under control. Unchecked it will make you mentally and physically ill, causes diabetes and eventually will take you out.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Player99 said:


> I am in Ontario. What model CPAP do you have? Go to the forum I posted. Get the manual for your machine so you can change your own settings. Download Sleepyhead and it will show you exactly what's going on.
> 
> Once I dialed my machine in, life is much better. Do you know what your sleep study showed? How many apnea events per hour? It is really important to get your apnea under control. Unchecked it will make you mentally and physically ill, causes diabetes and eventually will take you out.


I am now hooked up with ResMed (AirSense 10) distributor here. He "adopted me" with no fee (there others out here who charge to do that). He analyzed the data and made adjustments yesterday. I have a copy of the data. Gonna try it out with changes for a couple weeks.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2017)

Good luck.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

zontar said:


> I had an unintentional nap after work so it's messed me up.


Yup that's what screws me right up too! I get home from work ready for whatever and hubby wants to take a nap at 6 in the evening. If I sleep for an hour or two I wake up worse for wear. I am really grumpy and bitchy. I will only nap when he really insists.


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2017)

Lola said:


> I will only *nap* when he really insists.


Unless 'nap' is your term for something else, tell him to 'go ahead, nap'.
'I'll be on about doing my own shit'.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

laristotle said:


> Unless 'nap' is your term for something else, tell him to 'go ahead, nap'.
> 'I'll be on about doing my own shit'.


The term "nap" really is a nap as in closed eyes, weird dreams and snoring like a freight train.


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## vokey design (Oct 24, 2006)

Lola said:


> The term "nap" really is a nap as in closed eyes, weird dreams and snoring like a freight train.


Speaking of trains, I have found this helpful this week. Comfortable earbuds are a must.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> I find myself listening to Coast to Coast when I can't sleep, even though the show has been horrible for a while now.
> 
> Of course, there's also this method.....


Been there done that and had a lot of three and four day weekends, wide awake. Then I'd sleep for 24 hrs. straight. I'm used to going to bed about 12:30 in the morning and waking up around 6:30 am to go to work....5 days a week. Weekends are sometimes like now.....just finished off a fried bacon and cheese sandwich with a coke and will probably crash soon then it's up by 7:30 to say good bye to the grandsons. Might have a short sleep in the afternoon unless the weather is good to ride to the casino in Camrose. But for now I'll sleep on that.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Robert1950 said:


> On thing that research is showing, very solidly, is screen time: phone, tablet, computer, TV,... stimulation of visual receptors by these ways results in a decrease in secretion of natural melatonin needed to fall asleep. May not affect everyone, but for people who have problems falling asleeep, this is a major contributor.


Hmmmm, it's 3:35 in the morning, something is on the tv, the girlfriend just sent me some pics on the cell phone and I'm here on the laptop. I'll let you know if they are right when I wake up in a few hrs.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I read this a few weeks back and it works great.
> Pick a word without any repeating letters ie. DOG
> Think of as many words as you can that start with D
> Then O, Then G
> I rarely get past the 2nd letter.


That would keep me up for hrs. Checking in a dictionary if what I came up with are actual words.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

zontar said:


> I had an unintentional nap after work so it's messed me up.


I hate taking a nap. Sometimes I will lay down with hubby just to keep him company but I toss and turn! It's very rare that I sleep when napping but if I do that screws up my day and I feel lethargic and I hate it. It's like having a hangover! Remember too many of those "I would rather be dead" hangovers I used to inflict upon myself when I was young, really wild and crazy! Tequila shots produced some of the worst hangovers ever! So happy I don't drink anymore!


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

How about counting Anguses playing SG's jumping over Marshall stacks! Or maybe visualizing a fretboard, start on a string and work the notes up the frets until you drop off. I need to memorize my notes, just saying!


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

leftysg said:


> How about counting Anguses playing SG's jumping over Marshall stacks! Or maybe visualizing a fretboard, start on a string and work the notes up the frets until you drop off. I need to memorize my notes, just saying!


Can't think to hard! 

Need something rather simple minded! Nothing where I don't have to overload my brain.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Yes we can come and get u no worries. We will pick up Patricia at 11 and then u


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## bluebayou (May 25, 2015)

I eventually had to go on prescription meds to put me to sleep and keep me asleep. My Dr won't do the medical weed thing. As soon as it becomes legal I will drop the psrciption meds and make some brownies. I sleep like a baby and wake up refreshed and no hangover.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

So I finally figured my sleep patterns out.

I no longer take sleep meds and sleep a really deep and restful sleep!

These patterns evolved on their own. I usually fall asleep by midnight wake up at 2, 2:30, watch YT videos or Netflix for and hour and do the same thing at 4:30. I sleep exceptionally well between these bouts of wakefulness! I get anywhere from 6-7 hrs if catatonic sleep *without *medication! It's very broken up but at least the my sleep is quality without medication! Yeah! I can function 100% and don't need anymore sleep then this!

This is huge! Excellent sleep and no meds! More money to use on GAS!


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

bluebayou said:


> I eventually had to go on prescription meds to put me to sleep and keep me asleep. My Dr won't do the medical weed thing. As soon as it becomes legal I will drop the psrciption meds and make some brownies. I sleep like a baby and wake up refreshed and no hangover.


You will be able to walk into a weed store and buy quality stuff! I can hardly wait!

I can get my medical marijuana card if I desire for my sleeplessness and panic attacks but will continue to use black market stuff until it becomes legal next June!

Besides I have very limited options as to when I can make cookies! Have to do it when hubby is not around or a divorce would be imminent. It makes me angry cuz he's such a hypocrite! I would rather have the oil. So much easier to deal with them the butter.


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## vokey design (Oct 24, 2006)

I have found some moderate success with these "super sleep" tablets, I am still waking a few times a night but am able to get back to sleep in 10-15 min rather than 1-2 hours. I do still have bad nights where my anxiety/depression/rumination take over and I get zero sleep but they have been cut down significantly with these. 

Just look at her and how peacefully she seems to be sleeping, even with the lights on


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

vokey design said:


> I have found some moderate success with these "super sleep" tablets, I am still waking a few times a night but am able to get back to sleep in 10-15 min rather than 1-2 hours. I do still have bad nights where my anxiety/depression/rumination take over and I get zero sleep but they have been cut down significantly with these.
> 
> 
> Just look at her and how peacefully she seems to be sleeping, even with the lights on
> View attachment 121609


I have managed to combat anxiety etc. I have begun watching documentaries on Netflix with the narration executed by David Attenborough! His voice is so soothing. Btw I love his nature documentaries. After watching an hour or so, lights out and I don't even remember falling asleep! This has been working like a charm for 4 nights!

My sleep is really broken up but the sleep I manage to get is deep. I am hitting those REM cycles because I am dreaming again. On medication it was very rare that I would even dream.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

These are the videos that lull me to sleep.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Still sleeping like shit. Will update in October.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Robert1950 said:


> Still sleeping like shit. Will update in October.


Why Robert? Do you know the cause?

Is it that you cannot fall asleep or do you continuously wake up through the night?

I still sleep like shit too. I wake up at least twice a night and remain awake for an hour or more but the quality of sleep I am getting when I do sleep is like a miracle! I have never had such good quality of sleep ever until now! I am able to shut my brain off as well.

I can't figure out why my quality of sleep has improved drastically! I can fall asleep usually within 10 minutes if putting my head on the pillow after I have watched a segment of a documentary narrated by Mr. Attenborough.

I am trying desperately not to play my guitar in the wee hours of the morning. I found out I was getting over the top excited when playing, especially if I nailed something I had been working on all week!

Are you going to a sleep clinic or something in October?


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

leftysg said:


> ... visualizing a fretboard, start on a string and work the notes up the frets until you drop off. I need to memorize my notes, just saying!


I think that's a really good idea and something I could easily do. It's better than useless crap like counting backwards from 100 which might put you to sleep but doesn't get you anywhere except backwards.

A lot of times I run lyrics through my head until I fall asleep which gets the words burned in real good but working the fretboard or even visualizing the boxes would be good too.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Robert1950 said:


> Still sleeping like shit. Will update in October.


Are you awake now?
I just woke up and I guess I will be up until 3:30 am or do! I just grabbed a Popsicle and am going to watch a little documentary on Mountains!

I meant to post this at 3:30 but I fell into a deep sleep just until now, approx 6:15.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I finally figured it out!

When I watch these documentaries my mind does not wander at all and I am so focused on what I am watching. I guess, sort of like tunnel vision! It really works!


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## vokey design (Oct 24, 2006)

Lola said:


> My sleep is really broken up but the sleep I manage to get is deep. I am hitting those REM cycles because I am dreaming again. On medication it was very rare that I would even dream.


It has been months since my last dream and I miss the insanity that an uninhibited imagination can provide. I have been trying to fake REM with EMDR (bilateral stimulation), there are some good youtube videos, I just put headphones in and put my phone in my nightstand so I don't see the screen.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

vokey design said:


> It has been months since my last dream and I miss the insanity that an uninhibited imagination can provide. I have been trying to fake REM with EMDR (bilateral stimulation), there are some good youtube videos, I just put headphones in and put my phone in my nightstand so I don't see the screen.


Checking it out right now!

I couldn't listen for very long without wanting to grab my guitar and starting improvising to the beat of it. Reminded me of a metronome. I don't think that would work for me!


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## vokey design (Oct 24, 2006)

Lola said:


> Checking it out right now!
> 
> I couldn't listen for very long without wanting to grab my guitar and starting improvising to the beat of it. Reminded me of a metronome. I don't think that would work for me!


There are some "sleep stories" that are good too, they use bilateral stim but with spoken words, I like this sleep story:


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Lola said:


> Are you awake now?
> I just woke up and I guess I will be up until 3:30 am or do! I just grabbed a Popsicle and am going to watch a little documentary on Mountains! I meant to post this at 3:30 but I fell into a deep sleep just until now, approx 6:15.


If I didn't take medication, I would be awake. With medication I sleep a couple hours, up, drift back to sleep, repeat 4 to 6 times. No medication it takes me 5 to 7 hours to finally drift off. Too tired to get up during that time. There is a regular pill and a long acting pill. If I don't take the long acting pill, I'll wake around 2 am or so and won't fall back to sleep around 5am. Then it's in and out until 8:30. If I want fall asleep in under an hour I also take melatonin. (Visual stimulation by screens - TV, Computer, Tablet,etc. - can reduce the natural production of melatonin which makes you fall asleep) So I try to avoid that for at least an hour before bedtime. Music, audiobooks as a substitute. 

Also sleep apnea. I have the machine. Google it if you have the time. Insomnia preceded the sleep apnea in my case, that sort of complicates it.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

vokey design said:


> There are some "sleep stories" that are good too, they use bilateral stim but with spoken words, I like this sleep story:


I tried listening but I found her voice was not soothing fir me personally. With the nature documents I am so focused on the animals and nothing else seems to bother me.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

This has been the weirdest day of sans sleep medication. 

I had a short day. Home at 3. Put my head down on a pillow! Hubby says I was in an instant coma and snoring(me snore? Nah! Got to be hearing things) nap endurance lasted all of 15 minutes! Woke up feeling like a million $. Fell asleep at 10:30(I never fall asleep at this ungodly HR) and just waking up! 

The fact that I can do any of this is pure magic. I need to do some investigation on this miracle. Why is this happening after 25 years of horrible sleep?


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

My REM cycles are so amazing!

I had the craziest dream which seemed to last for hrs!

The band and I spent a casual afternoon with Eddie Van Halen! Discussing songs, his inspirations etc. Just sheer craziness. But in my dream it was the young Eddie not the 60 something year old one. Just so friggin' bizarre.


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## Tarbender (Apr 7, 2006)

Can I join this club... not that I want to, but I just can't sleep. ugh!


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Tarbender said:


> Can I join this club... not that I want to, but I just can't sleep. ugh!


Must be something in the air. I usually sleep like a log.


Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Tarbender said:


> Can I join this club... not that I want to, but I just can't sleep. ugh!



Of course you can join the alum.

I can't sleep either right now. So I am looking at the cost comparisons between Blue chip picks and V picks. Now back to Gold rush. Probably fall back to sleep at 5 or 5:30


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Membership is free to all.


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## Tarbender (Apr 7, 2006)

Been like this for a couple of years now. Wake up between 2:00 -4:00am and can't get back to sleep. Played solitaire for the last hour, doesn't seem to help.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Tarbender said:


> Been like this for a couple of years now. Wake up between 2:00 -4:00am and can't get back to sleep. Played solitaire for the last hour, doesn't seem to help.


I get up an play my guitar unplugged.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I guess I have a coffee and watch youtube. 5am feels better.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Second night in a row, and I've had only one good night's sleep in a week. The bride had me try some "natural" sleep aid that didn't work. I'll maybe try it again and if it still doesn't work I'll go back to Nytol.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Try the 4-7-8 breathing method. Even if it doesn't put you to bed, it's good for you. I went from high blood pressure to optimal by doing it for a month. I have a reminder on my phone for every day at 4pm.

breathe in through your nose for 4 seconds, hold it for 7, breathe out through your mouth for 8. Count using 'mississippis'.

I kinda wanted to get up, since I wasn't tired (I went to bed much earlier than usual), so I didn't do it myself.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Mooh said:


> Second night in a row, and I've had only one good night's sleep in a week. The bride had me try some "natural" sleep aid that didn't work. I'll maybe try it again and if it still doesn't work I'll go back to Nytol.


Melatonin?


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## hammerstein (Oct 17, 2017)

I used to sleep fine until I started adding night shifts into my rotation.. now I can’t sleep for more than a couple hours at a time all week, but for some reason when Saturday comes around I can have a 5 hour nap in the afternoon, and still go to bed at night for another 7-8... 

I’ll just keep blaming the kids


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Lola said:


> Melatonin?


Yes, and Valerian. 

Strangely, I can nap easily during the day, whether or not I've slept at night.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

This is so weird. I decided not to take my prescription sleeping pills anymore. I am getting the best sleep ever. Very deep REM cycles along with the breath taking dreams. This is absolutely the best sleep that I have gotten in 25 years.

I can't remember even falling asleep most nights

There is s downside to this though. I usually get up at 2:30 or 3 and stay up for an hour or two. Sometimes my son wakes me! He's usually up at 4 am for work and out the door by 4:45.

I would rather this situation then the previous one of being awake all night.

I honestly don't think prescription sleeping pills are answer. They knock me out and an hour two later I am awake. I have tried doubling the dose but then it's getting a little dangerous. These pills that I am taking mess with your brain big time as well as your memory. I have been taking them off and on for 25 years. Should of gone to a sleep clinic a long time ago. 

I am waiting to get into a migraine programme at Woman's College, Toronto. We will get to the bottom of sleep debacle. The only trouble is I have to wait for up to 15 months to attend. The wait list is huge.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)




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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

butterknucket said:


>


Hallelujah. I was able to rid myself of these pills entirely on my own. Thank. God.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Lola said:


> Hallelujah. I was able to rid myself of these pills entirely on my own. Thank. God.


I remember one time many years ago telling a doctor that I was having a hard time sleeping. He asked me if I was taking anything to help. I said I sometimes take a Gravol to knock myself out. He threw a fit and went on a rant on how dangerous that is. He then gave me a script for Imovane but said don't take it long term or else you'll end up in the hospital.

What's wrong with this situation? Taking something over the counter periodically, or taking script from the doctor that's habit forming? 

I haven't taken either in several years.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

butterknucket said:


> I remember one time many years ago telling a doctor that I was having a hard time sleeping. He asked me if I was taking anything to help. I said I sometimes take a Gravol to knock myself out. He threw a fit and went on a rant on how dangerous that is. He then gave me a script for Imovane but said don't take it long term or else you'll end up in the hospital.
> 
> What's wrong with this situation? Taking something over the counter periodically, or taking script from the doctor that's habit forming?
> 
> I haven't taken either in several years.


I have taken Immovane for ions! It truly is a nasty drug but it did the trick for many of sleepless nights. My sleep habits have changed for the better but I couldn't even begin to tell you why!


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Lola said:


> I have taken Immovane for ions! It truly is a nasty drug but it did the trick for many of sleepless nights. My sleep habits have changed for the better but I couldn't even begin to tell you why!


I just compensate with coffee and be miserable all the time!


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Sinus issues will add to insomnia.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

How are you sleeping lately?

For about the last 6 months I have gotten the best sleep of my entire life. Really deep and experiencing REM sleep nightly! Not many hrs of it though. Between 4-5 hrs a night

and now I am getting 2-4 hrs.

I had the same stressors as before and nothing has really changed in my life! I really wonder why my sleep habits are starting to disintegrate.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Side effect of insomnia and sleep apnea (despite the machine) - a comfortable, pleasant apathy. Being retired, it doesn't bother me all that much.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

butterknucket said:


>




That's kind of ridiculous, if you really think about it.

As a cancer survivor, big pharma saved my life. I can now continue to buy more drugs (just not the same ones I needed to save my life), so they didn't in fact lose a customer, they saved one.

If I'd gone the holistic or naturopath route, I would now be dead and not really a useful customer to any of them, either real medical practitioners or charlatans. Funny how real world experience affects perspective.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> That's kind of ridiculous, if you really think about it.
> 
> As a cancer survivor, big pharma saved my life. I can now continue to buy more drugs (just not the same ones I needed to save my life), so they didn't in fact lose a customer, they saved one.
> 
> If I'd gone the holistic or naturopath route, I would now be dead and not really a useful customer to any of them, either real medical practitioners or charlatans. Funny how real world experience affects perspective.


That picture had to do with the scenario I outlined afterwards in this thread.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

butterknucket said:


> That picture had to do with the scenario I outlined afterwards in this thread.


After the fact and you realized this. So you wouldn’t look ridiculous. You didn’t quite cover your tracks. Almost a nice save but not quite!


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I've slept through the night for the last week or so, until last night. Wife says I sleep better with the dog in the bed. No dog last night.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Got out of bed at 4:30 am. It is now 5:45 am. I usually don't get up until 9:30-11:00 am. (I consider this a retirement perk). This rarity seems to happen about 4-5x per year. No change in meds or routine. Go Figure.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I sleep so weird. I go to bed whenever but know I will be awake again at 3-4 am until 6 or so, fall back asleep until 8. 

My sleep is so broken up. I am starting to power nap during the day . I can’t help it. I rarely nap though! I can fall asleep anywhere, anytime but it’s just not long enough. My Fitbit gives me a fairly accurate reading of the amount of hrs I sleep. 

Anything over 6 hrs is miraculous.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> That's kind of ridiculous, if you really think about it.
> 
> As a cancer survivor, big pharma saved my life. I can now continue to buy more drugs (just not the same ones I needed to save my life), so they didn't in fact lose a customer, they saved one.
> 
> If I'd gone the holistic or naturopath route, I would now be dead and not really a useful customer to any of them, either real medical practitioners or charlatans. Funny how real world experience affects perspective.


That picture had to do with the scenario I outlined afterwards in this thread.


Lola said:


> After the fact and you realized this. So you wouldn’t look ridiculous. You didn’t quite cover your tracks. Almost a nice save but not quite!


You still liked the picture.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

butterknucket said:


> That picture had to do with the scenario I outlined afterwards in this thread.


I can see that now. I'm still a little touchy when I see everyone blaming 'big pharma' for the all world's ills. IME, my medical professionals have been nothing but caring and helpful. Certainly, they aren't magicians or miracle workers. They leave that to the holistic practitioners.

I have a situation where someone I'm close to needs some help with anxiety and depression. Three years into holistic solutions and no improvement at all. But the suggestions of SSRI's or anything like that are met with the 'big pharma' rant. Oh, the wonders of the internet.

I also don't see a big problem with your doc's recommendation. I've used Gravol as an antiemetic but there are much better sleeping pills. Imovane being one, although it isn't my preference. And yea, you don't want to rely on any sleeping pill every night, that isn't what they are designed for. If you need one every night, there are other issues.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Lola said:


> I sleep so weird. I go to bed whenever but know I will be awake again at 3-4 am until 6 or so, fall back asleep until 8.
> 
> My sleep is so broken up. I am starting to power nap during the day . I can’t help it. I rarely nap though! I can fall asleep anywhere, anytime but it’s just not long enough. My Fitbit gives me a fairly accurate reading of the amount of hrs I sleep.
> 
> Anything over 6 hrs is miraculous.


That is similar to my natural pattern. And many other people. In fact, it was more 'the norm' than not, if you go back before the industrial revolution, before all of these artificial schedules and artificial stimulants, like electric lights and TV and computers and smart phones. That's only a few hundred years - which of course is the wink of an eye in evolutionary terms. 

Have you ever done any reading or research on bimodal or biphasic sleeping? It seems to be gaining new interest. It certainly has my attention, as I approach retirement and can actually use it more effectively.

Biphasic and polyphasic sleep - Wikipedia


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> I can see that now. I'm still a little touchy when I see everyone blaming 'big pharma' for the all world's ills. IME, my medical professionals have been nothing but caring and helpful. Certainly, they aren't magicians or miracle workers. They leave that to the holistic practitioners.
> 
> I have a situation where someone I'm close to needs some help with anxiety and depression. Three years into holistic solutions and no improvement at all. But the suggestions of SRRI's or anything like that are met with the 'big pharma' rant. Oh, the wonders of the internet.
> 
> I also don't see a big problem with your doc's recommendation. I've used Gravol as an antiemetic but there are much better sleeping pills. Imovane being one, although it isn't my preference. And yea, you don't want to rely on any sleeping pill every night, that isn't what they are designed for. If you need one every night, there are other issues.


It's all perspective, so let's try to understand different people's points of view. 

I took antidepressants for years with no improvement and major side effects, and doctors throwing two year old tantraums if I asked anything about them. Getting that stuff about of my life was something I had to do. 

My grandfather had throat cancer in 1985 and had radiation. His treatment was deemed a success. He also had treatment for bladder cancer and cancer in his back in 1989. 

In 2004 I watched him waste away in the hospital for three months because his esophagus was burning away as a result of the radiation back in '85. I'm not condemning cancer treatment, but we need better options for the long term.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

High/Deaf said:


> Have you ever done any reading or research on bimodal or biphasic sleeping? It seems to be gaining new interest. It certainly has my attention, as I approach retirement and can actually use it more effectively.
> 
> Biphasic and polyphasic sleep - Wikipedia


Thx HD. I have some reading to do.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

butterknucket said:


> It's all perspective, so let's try to understand different people's points of view.
> 
> I took antidepressants for years with no improvement and major side effects, and doctors throwing two year old tantraums if I asked anything about them. Getting that stuff about of my life was something I had to do.


I have been on antidepressants for quite some time as well. I felt like a human guinea pig. Some had horrible side effects. I finally found one that is a godsend. They do the job 95% of the time. No side effects whatsoever. I asked questions always. I investigated each and every medication that was given to me and asked a myriad of questions. One doctor was a total asshole but the other took the time to explain everything to me. It’s my body and I need to know what I am putting in to it. 

Another situation we are currently experiencing is that my husband has been on steroids for sometime now to help him build some muscle. After all the cancer meds he has been on he has experienced muscle atrophy. He had been waiting for almost a year to see one particular specialist that only deals with steroids. He saw him last week and this doctor said because of the situation and his age he should of never been put on a course of steroids. So, why did these other 2 specialists put him on a course of steroids? Now he is going cold turkey off the steroids and it will be one helluva wild ride.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

butterknucket said:


> It's all perspective, so let's try to understand different people's points of view.
> 
> I took antidepressants for years with no improvement and major side effects, and doctors throwing two year old tantraums if I asked anything about them. Getting that stuff about of my life was something I had to do.


It sounds like you should have changed doctors. I know that isn't an option for everyone, everywhere.

I have found some very helpful and compassionate doctors, nurses, techs and other peripheral players in the medical community. I've also seen my fair share of bad ones, too, but I try not to extent those relationships, if I have the power to change to someone else.



> My grandfather had throat cancer in 1985 and had radiation. His treatment was deemed a success. He also had treatment for bladder cancer and cancer in his back in 1989.
> 
> In 2004 I watched him waste away in the hospital for three months because his esophagus was burning away as a result of the radiation back in '85. I'm not condemning cancer treatment, but we need better options for the long term.


My health is far from perfect 20 years after extensive chemo, bone marrow transplant, etc. BUT! I've had 20 years of life I wouldn't have had otherwise, so I consider my bad health with that proviso. I'd rather deal with a few issues and I think about all the wonderful things I've seen and done that I wouldn't have been able to if I didn't 'ruin my current health'.

Sounds to me like your uncle also (hopefully) enjoyed close to 20 years of 'extra' life that maybe he wouldn't have without the radiation? I agree that we need better treatments, but we also have much better treatments now than we had 20 or 30 years ago. Research takes time.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

High Def is is extremely exciting reading! I am beginning to understand what is considered the norm rather then exception in regards to sleeping patterns. Thx a million for the info.

Enlightenment. I am the norm rather then the exception. Biphasic sleeping patterns are what I experience each and every night. Why then do doctors recommend sleeping pills to ppl like me? They should be hopefully aware of this research. I will be sure to discuss this with my doctor when I see him. BTW I ditched my Imovane many months ago. I am more in tune with my natural circadian rhythms.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Hi Def, I am currently doing research on migraines. Do you have any insightful reading that you could recommend.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Lola said:


> High Def is is extremely exciting reading! I am beginning to understand what is considered the norm rather then exception in regards to sleeping patterns. Thx a million for the info.
> 
> Enlightenment. I am the norm rather then the exception. Biphasic sleeping patterns are what I experience each and every night. Why then do doctors recommend sleeping pills to ppl like me? They should be hopefully aware of this research. I will be sure to discuss this with my doctor when I see him. BTW I ditched my Imovane many months ago. I am more in tune with my natural circadian rhythms.


That's the first thing I thought, too. "Hey, my sleep patterns are not that unusual."

People without sleep problems have no idea what it's like. I was so sick and tired (pun not intended, but there it was while I was editing .... ) of hearing people going on about "if you don't get 8 hours of sleep a night, you are endangering yourself" and how it's bad for your health and all sorts of other expert opinion. They're opinion now means nothing to me.

If you've had five hours of sleep, feel rested and can't sleep anymore, what the hell are you supposed to do to get more sleep? I've laid there for hours, and if sleep doesn't come to me, there is absolutely bugger all I can do about it. There is no way to force sleep on yourself. Trying to is in fact stressful and probably counter-productive.

Also, the list of 'bad sleepers' is somewhat impressive. We are in very good company.

{edited} Sorry, no help with migraines. Fortunately for me, it is one of those things I don't suffer from. Good luck in your quest to find remedy.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

High/Deaf said:


> That's the first thing I thought, too. "Hey, my sleep patterns are not that unusual."
> 
> People without sleep problems have no idea what it's like. I was so sick and tired (pun not intended, but there it was while I was editing .... ) of hearing people going on about "if you don't get 8 hours of sleep a night, you are endangering yourself" and how it's bad for your health and all sorts of other expert opinion. They're opinion now means nothing to me.
> 
> ...


Thx


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

High/Deaf said:


> That is similar to my natural pattern. And many other people. In fact, it was more 'the norm' than not, if you go back before the industrial revolution, before all of these artificial schedules and artificial stimulants, like electric lights and TV and computers and smart phones. That's only a few hundred years - which of course is the wink of an eye in evolutionary terms.
> 
> Have you ever done any reading or research on bimodal or biphasic sleeping? It seems to be gaining new interest. It certainly has my attention, as I approach retirement and can actually use it more effectively.
> 
> Biphasic and polyphasic sleep - Wikipedia


Thank you so much for the guidance! Knowing what I now know has decreased the anxiety over my sleeping a great deal. 

You sir are a walking talking book of knowledge. If you have any more insights or information on anything to do with sleeping pls pm me! You’re awesome


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Joining in


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Woot woot 5 hrs and 43 minutes of glorious sleep according to my Fitbit. That is a very luxurious sleep in the scheme of things. 

I also had a 1 hour and 45 minute power nap at 7:30 last night. I just couldn’t keep my eyes open.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

High/Deaf said:


> Biphasic and polyphasic sleep - Wikipedia


Everyone who thinks they may have a sleep disorder of some kind should read this info. It really is enlightening.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Went back to sleep for another hour and 34 minutes.

Total 7 hrs and 17 minutes.

Now that’s what I call a record! I don’t think I haven’t slept that long in over a year unless I had a migraine or was sick.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Does the weather in your area affect your sleeping patterns? 

Now that the sun is up mighty early so am I. I went to bed at 8:30 last night and woke up at 5 am. This is far from the norm for me.


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## Gary787 (Aug 27, 2011)

butterknucket said:


> I find myself listening to Coast to Coast when I can't sleep, even though the show has been horrible for a while now.
> 
> Of course, there's also this method.....


Hey now! And we worry about guys wearing turbans on motorcycles.  Dirt nap coming for Mr. "thumbs up"


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## Gary787 (Aug 27, 2011)

Falling asleep was no problem. Staying asleep was a big problem. I was getting around 4 to 5 hours of tossing and turning sleep a night. I lost 50 pounds, now I go to bed when I am tired instead of when whatever I am doing or watching is over. I also bought a fit bit sleep tracker. I now average between 6 and 7 hours per night which seems to work well for me. I also use orange tinted glasses at night to block blue light but that might just be hocuspokus.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Get on the average 3 hrs of sleep a night now. 

Starting to feel ill. 

My son bought a Fitbit monitor watch for me. It lets me know exactly what my sleep patterns are and how long. This week my average number of sleep hours are 3 hrs and 5 minutes. 

This sucks.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Was doing better for a few weeks, but lately I've been seeing 3 am a lot, and 4 am. I get up at 5:20 anyway.

Sometimes it's the rotator cuff, sometimes my bladder, sometimes my brain.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Mooh said:


> Was doing better for a few weeks, but lately I've been seeing 3 am a lot, and 4 am. I get up at 5:20 anyway.
> 
> Sometimes it's the rotator cuff, sometimes my bladder, sometimes my brain.


I was doing so well for a couple of months as well. Now, not so much. I have to resort to taking Imovane a couple nights! I need sleep desperately.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Likely a Nytol night for me, I need to be well rested for tomorrow.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

My jet lag is reeeeeeally pissing me off right now.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

bzrkrage said:


> My jet lag is reeeeeeally pissing me off right now.


How long has this been happening? 

I am not doing well either. I am on a new medication and the side effects of flu like symptoms are horrendous. Going to work everyday is beyond a challenge. My doctor told me to hang on for as long as possible because the side effects will dissipate. When though? This has been going on since June 25th. Very little quality sleep. 

Sick and tired of being sick and soooo tired.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Last night was bliss, but two nights ago I saw 1, 2, and 3 o'clock. Eyes wide open. Otis Dog seems concerned when this happens but after some good dog reassurance will usually head back to bed on his own (he sleeps beside my bed).

Something changed in me at mid-life. I can't reliably sleep at night, but if I want I can nap anywhere, anytime...in waiting rooms, parking lots, concerts...


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Lola said:


> How long has this been happening?


Only since Tuesday. I was right on track, but the kids are finding it hard, so wake me up & around it goes.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

bzrkrage said:


> Only since Tuesday. I was right on track, but the kids are finding it hard, so wake me up & around it goes.


Other then jet lag are your sleep habits good?


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Lola said:


> Other then jet lag are your sleep habits good?


99% of the time yeah. So, not “really” an insomniac.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

bzrkrage said:


> 99% of the time yeah. So, not “really” an insomniac.


Your one of the lucky ones then! Sleep is so important to ones health and well being. I need to get at least a minimum of 5 hrs sleep or I feel like a pile of garbage and I am irritable, lose my patience pretty quickly. I really hate having to resort to medication but if I have to I will. I have tried Nytol, melatonin and other herbal remedies and they just don’t cut it. When I take a half of Imovane, I am out like a light within 1/2 hr.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Trying to seek some professional help in dealing with some personal issues. I find that delving into the matters is making my insomnia worse. When I ignored the issues at hand, I slept like a baby. WTF?! I have been up since 4:34 am and could usually just go back to sleep toute suite. Might as well just start my day. Take the dog for a walk for starters.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I was not familiar with Imovane and decided to look it up. Suitable for short-term use, but contra-indicated for long term use for a variety of nasty reasons/side-effects. No longer available in the USA. I'm assuming the FDA evaluators gathered more recent studies and reports, concluded "Well, THAT'S not good" and banned its sale. Either that, or the manufacturers decided not to risk the litigation.

Generally not a good idea to eat something shortly before bedtime. Generally a good idea to feel like much has been accomplished during the day. Exercise that pumps you up maybe not such a good idea. Exercise a bit earlier that drains you maybe a better idea. Piping hot shower often works for me. But then, we have a custom shower that hits you from both sides, so that it exhausts you like a sauna.

Music that meanders can be helpful. You can download a bunch of Tangerine Dream concerts here - SugarMegs Streaming Server - and easily doze off to those.
Informational podcasts - preferably something that won't outrage you or elicit guffaws - can be helpful. "99% Invisible" is a good one, as is "Revisionist History" and the many of the past episodes of CBC "Ideas". I like "The Health Report" ( Health Report - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) ) and "All in the Mind" ( All In The Mind - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) ) from the Australian Broadcasting Corportation.
RTE1 radio in Ireland has a large inventory/archive of documentary podcasts - https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/documentary-on-one-rte-documentaries/id107923803 - that are intriguing but never so engaging that they keep you up. I suppose YMMV, but I find it soothing to fall asleep to someone gabbing in a relaxed manner. The trick is that it has to be something that would make you pay attention without eliciting flights of mental association, yet not SO engaging that it makes you sit up.

Worst case scenario: set the TV to CPAC and put the timer on, so that it doesn't run all night. I know when I'm sick at home, and need to nap, CPAC reliably puts me down.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah,... right,... Zzzzzzzz Zzzzzzz. What? Sorry. Not a morning person,... because of insomnia


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Robert1950 said:


> Yeah,... right,... Zzzzzzzz Zzzzzzz. What? Sorry. Not a morning person,... because of insomnia


I am a morning person unless I continuously deprived of sleep day after day. I have a hard time being polite, courteous and happy.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

No obligation to be all three, Lola. Just pick two and you'll be alright.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Still up and this really sucks. Have to be at work in 5 hrs. I have tried twice to kick back, relax and fall asleep. Even got up to practice for awhile to take my mind off of shit.

Anyone else awake at 3:32 am?


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2018)




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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Insomniacs Untie! I have trouble sleeping while tied up too.

Seriously, I thought most of my issues would fade with th econtrols on stress, hypertension, fluids, etc but with the recent addition of heart palpitations I’m not so sure. I wonder if they’ve been causing some disturbed sleep. I have seen my doc, have had the usual ECG and blood tests, and have an ultrasound and monitor tests shortly. There’s something going on and I wonder how connected things are. I should sleep tonight as I’ve been out most of the day and have walked a lot.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Insomnia, when you are senior, is a health problem.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

So, I went to my headache clinic appt. at Women’s College Hospital and my doctor told me to give meditation just before I turn in for the night a try. It works so far. I don’t even get to the end of the video and I have fallen asleep. Could it be all psychological? Idk. I haven’t done enough research on how meditation helps you to drift off to sleep. I will post a link to the video if you want.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

My wife is having surgery later today, and I can’t sleep.


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## StratCat (Dec 30, 2013)

bzrkrage said:


> My wife is having surgery later today, and I can’t sleep.


I hope the surgery goes well. Wishing you both good health.




Lola said:


> So, I went to my headache clinic appt. at Women’s College Hospital and my doctor told me to give meditation just before I turn in for the night a try. It works so far. I don’t even get to the end of the video and I have fallen asleep. Could it be all psychological? Idk. I haven’t done enough research on how meditation helps you to drift off to sleep. I will post a link to the video if you want.


+1 for meditation. I realize this was posted a few months ago. I hope this good trend has continued for you Lola. 

There are also white noise apps (wildfulness) that will play sounds such as waves, animals, thunderstorms, etc. while you fall asleep.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

StratCat said:


> I hope the surgery goes well. Wishing you both good health.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Meditation can help to relax me but it just doesn’t work all the time. I have found out through trial and error.

I just need to work myself to death daily so that I am tired enough to fall asleep.

Bzrkage, hope everything goes well for your wife. No wonder you can’t sleep. I wouldn’t be able to either if it were my hubby. Wishing you both well.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Lola said:


> Trying to seek some professional help in dealing with some personal issues. I find that delving into the matters is making my insomnia worse. When I ignored the issues at hand, I slept like a baby. WTF?! I have been up since 4:34 am and could usually just go back to sleep toute suite. Might as well just start my day. Take the dog for a walk for starters.


Sadly, I've realized what is considered 'help' is more of a business than anything.


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