# Blend Pedal Volume Drop?



## Guest (Dec 1, 2011)

I just got a used T1smyme blend pedal 
http://this1smyne.com/shop/mbl-mini-blender-pedal/

I am using it to blend my Ventilator leslie with my signal to make the effect subtle. It works pretty good and I like it with 20-30% effect. There is a slight volume drop, but I can deal with it. But when I use it to blend my Analogman Bi-Chorus it has a huge volume drop. when I use 100% effect dialed in, or 0% dialed it is loud enough, but as I rotate the knob the volume drops. As it approaches the limits of the pot it gets louder again.

Why so much on the chorus and not the leslie? Is there an easy fix?

Thank you


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

This sounds very much like a phase conflict. Presumably, the Bi-Chorus puts out a signal which is phase-reversed, with respect to the "clean" side of the blender. Mix 'em together in anything other than a 100%/0% or 0%/100% combination, and you get cancellation. The Neo-Ventilator, happily, is phase-congruent with its input. I say "happily" because I've seen reports of disatsfying interactions with the maker of the Neo, and a certain amount of petulance on his part. Whether warranted or not, better that you have the problem with the Bi-Chorus in that case.

If all you want to do is simply lessen the intensity or obviousness of the chorus effect, it is a simple matter of changing the value of one resistor on the pedal to alter how much wet signal is mixed in with dry. Every time I make myself another chorus, it's a feature I include. Indeed, I think there are a great many players whose chief objection to using a chorus is that the effect is too obvious and gimmicky. That is, of course, why Boss smartened up and included a Mix/Level control on the CE-3 and 5, and everybody else seems to have followed suit. 

That can be done as a pot with continuously variable intensity, or using something like a 3-position toggle to have full, milder, and just-a-hint presets. It'd be nice if such a mod was possible for A and B, but I gather the A/B switch simply alternates between the two LFOs, and cannot alternate between 2 different mix levels as well.

Next time you're planning on being in town, let me know ahead of time, and I'd be happy to do it for you. That likely voids any Analogman warranty, though. Send me a pic of the board so I can deduce which resistor it is, or else e-mail AnalogMike, tell him what you plan on doing, let him know I'm doing it, and ask him to identify what resistor woud do the deed. I'm proud to say Mike apparently cites me in his book, though I've never actually seen it. But he knows me, and will likely trust my work.

The other alternative, which may well have broader application, but involve a little more, is to incorporate some form of phase-reversal in the blender pedal, so that you will always be able to blend in another effect, whether it is in phase or not.


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## Jeff B. (Feb 20, 2010)

Is the blender pedal buffered or is it just a pot wired in passively? There could potentially be some signal loss if it's a passive blender.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2011)

Wow Mark! You sure know your stuff!

I think the AM chorus had an internal trim pot for the mix. I would really like to be able to adjust the blend on the fly. He makes a model with the pot on the top, but not mine. If you are willing could we try to add an external pot?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Jeff B. said:


> Is the blender pedal buffered or is it just a pot wired in passively? There could potentially be some signal loss if it's a passive blender.


Not that the presence of a battery is any dyed in the wool verification of an active circuit, but it has a power jack and LED, so I imagine it is a simple buffered blender circuit. If the loss occurred with all pedals, I'd likely come to the same conclusion as you. It's the _difference_ between Neo-V and Bi-Ch that raised a flag for me, plus the fact that the drop occurs when the mix on the blender is somewhere _between_ all wet, and all dry.

Richard, There seems to be sufficient space for installing a pot, but don't be so quick to dismiss a simply 3-position toggle. They can do the job VERY well, and predictably.

I can't find any gutshots on-line, but there is likely to be at _least_ 2 trimpots inside, if your description is correct, and maybe more. I wouldn't monkey with them until the function of each is verified. Not that it would break anything, but it might render the sound sub-optimal until properly adjusted again.


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## Jeff B. (Feb 20, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Not that the presence of a battery is any dyed in the wool verification of an active circuit, but it has a power jack and LED, so I imagine it is a simple buffered blender circuit. If the loss occurred with all pedals, I'd likely come to the same conclusion as you. It's the _difference_ between Neo-V and Bi-Ch that raised a flag for me, plus the fact that the drop occurs when the mix on the blender is somewhere _between_ all wet, and all dry.
> 
> Richard, There seems to be sufficient space for installing a pot, but don't be so quick to dismiss a simply 3-position toggle. They can do the job VERY well, and predictably.
> 
> I can't find any gutshots on-line, but there is likely to be at _least_ 2 trimpots inside, if your description is correct, and maybe more. I wouldn't monkey with them until the function of each is verified. Not that it would break anything, but it might render the sound sub-optimal until properly adjusted again.


 
I must admit I love when people post tech questions just so I get to read Mark's responses and learn something new.

Here is some guts I found of a 2 knob Analogman "Small Clone" Chorus if they might be of any help. 

http://f.hatena.ne.jp/toy_love/20071231032233 
http://f.hatena.ne.jp/toy_love/20071231032407 
http://f.hatena.ne.jp/toy_love/20071231032419  
http://f.hatena.ne.jp/toy_love/20071231032454  
http://f.hatena.ne.jp/toy_love/20071231032515 

Mike has a few photos on this old page. http://www.analogman.com/clone.htm


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks for the nod. The pics will likely be of help, once I get home and can see them (blocked at work). Thanks.


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## Guest (Dec 1, 2011)

There is a couple here on the AM website:
http://www.analogman.com/clone.htm

Mine is the Bi-Chorus with stereo out and a 3 way tone toggle switch.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

From the looks of it, you don't need either the blender, or a mod. The white trimpoton the inside allows you to adjust the wet level in the very manner I described earlier. Tweak it to taste, and you're on your way.


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2011)

mhammer said:


> From the looks of it, you don't need either the blender, or a mod. The white trimpoton the inside allows you to adjust the wet level in the very manner I described earlier. Tweak it to taste, and you're on your way.


That is the pot I would like to replace and move to the outside.

I really bought the blender for the ventilator. Later I thought about putting my modulation pedals in a loop and I could blend them all.

I don't think it is a set it and forget it thing. Depending on the volume level / gig / song, the amounts will need to be adjusted as I am playing. Lower volumes require more effect than higher ones.

I emailed T1M (builder) and his initial response was there should not be any volume drop, something must be wrong and asked for a gut shot. I sent the shots but have not heard back yet.

to be continued...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Player99 said:


> That is the pot I would like to replace and move to the outside.


That should be easy enough to do. What value is indicated on the pot? (it might be stated in terms of 3 numbers, like "503")


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2011)

I will check and post when I find out.

Hey Mark, would it be hard to add a blend to the Ventilator?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Maybe, maybe not. It's a digital pedal, right? Or is it a complex analog pedal? Even if analog, the other thing is whether it uses thru-hole or SMT components. If the latter, then a) they will be hard to identify in the absence of a schematic, and b) it will be a real bear to add anything (as is typical of pedals using that technology and ultra-thin PCB traces).


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2011)

Yes it is digital. 

The blender really makes it the way I like it. Unfortunately after playing with the Vent and the blender the volume drop is too much.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Does the stompswitch on the Blender bypass the whole thing or simply lift the signal to be blended in (the Neo in this case)?

It may be possible to adjust the relative gain of the circuit. I'd need to see the innards of it though.

Or maybe I oughta just make you the damn thing properly, eh?


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2011)

The blender completely bypasses the pedal, letting the guitar signal go through untouched by the effect. When engaged, it adds as much or as little of the effect using the dial. There is also an expression pedal out jack to control it with a foot controller. The guy I bought it from also included a foot controller and a small box with a dial that he said he used as an expression pedal/ dial for his DL4. It was really nice of the seller to give me the extras as I only thought I was going to get the blender on it's own. Perhaps he knew the blender was not up to snuff. I emailed the seller and he said he remembered a volume drop.


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2011)

UPDATE: I said earlier I had emailed T1M and sent him gut shots at his request. He got back to me and said it was the older version, and if I sent him the pedal he would install his new board that does some things better. (I am not at my regular PC so I cannot re-read the email.) I replied that the shipping from Canada might be problematic and requested he send me the parts and I would install them. He liked that idea and agreed to make up a circuit and mail it to me with instructions.

When I asked how much he said *nothing*, just give him my shipping address and he will send it out no charge. He said he would not complain if I kicked in for shipping. 

That is pretty good of him. Mark I might need help when it gets here...(please)

Cheers,

RB


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

No problem. Let me know when you're in town.


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2011)

I will be in touch.

Thanks Mark


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