# why does L& M offer such a low trade in Value.



## Rick31797

I took my MF-350 head in to L&M for trade hoping too get 500.00, they offer me 300.00 , and i said no, but that was ok, no problem, but then i go to another L&M store in Toronto and to my surprise i see a Brand new MF350 there, with a price tag of 1299.00 ..I guess maybe the low offer was because there is no demand and they just didn't want it.. maybe i answered my own question...


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## Hamstrung

Rick31797 said:


> I took my MF-350 head in to L&M for trade hoping too get 500.00, they offer me 300.00 , and i said no, but that was ok, no problem, but then i go to another L&M store in Toronto and to my surprise i see a Brand new MF350 there, with a price tag of 1299.00 ..I guess maybe the low offer was because there is no demand and they just didn't want it.. maybe i answered my own question...


Part of the equation is the perceived demand of the item you're bringing in. Since they do this all the time they know what they can move fast and what sits on the shelf gathering dust. 
Any retailer who is gonna have to sell whatever comes in on trade will usually offer you about 40% of what the item could get on the market. They're in it to make money after all. 
Consignment is usually a better way to go as most places charge 15% on whatever the item sells for.


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## keeperofthegood

40% is generous too.

When I had my little business selling antiques and nicknacks I would look at something like say a book. I could sell the book for 1 dollar. However, it could take a minute to a year to sell that book for that dollar. So, I set as my max purchase of that book to 25 cents, in the sell price of 1 dollar is my 25 cents payback, 25 cents profit, 25 cents rental on the space, and 25 cents to have gotten the book and to replace the book (car/gas costs).

I didn't apply the 25% across the board but I stuck to it and it didn't serve me poorly.


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## hollowbody

Rick31797 said:


> I took my MF-350 head in to L&M for trade hoping too get 500.00, they offer me 300.00 , and i said no, but that was ok, no problem, but then i go to another L&M store in Toronto and to my surprise i see a Brand new MF350 there, with a price tag of 1299.00 ..I guess maybe the low offer was because there is no demand and they just didn't want it.. maybe i answered my own question...


Bottom line is that if you think you can sell it for $500 privately, they probably think they can sell it for $400 or 425+ tax and then they still have to make money off it, which is why you get an offer of $300.

They will give you a slightly better deal if you are trading it in to the store for something else.


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## Rick31797

That was actually the deal, trade in value on another amp, 300.00 for mine and the other amp was new at 600.00 .and then i see a brand new head like mine for 1299.00, they must know they will not get that for it, if you can get a used one for 500.00 They also said they turned down a JCM-900 trade in.


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## keto

The only sold (completed listings) ones on ebay are 2 that both went for $375. L&M have to make a buck, and by policy offer 70% of floor retail reselling price - so, in this case, $425 is what they feel they can tag it at. $425 X 70% = $297.50. They were right on the money, imo, if not slightly generous.

That's not a very desirable amp, sorry to say. I'd make you a small wager and give you odds, that you don't get $500 for it.

New retail listing price of $1299 has absolutely ZERO to do with its value now.


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## GuitarsCanada

If it is somewhat of a desirable item it is always better to try and sell it yourself. Trade-in at a retail store will most certainly net you much less for the reasons stated above.


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## Rick31797

I can get 500.00 for the head and 450.00 for the cabt, but i thought i would give a trade in a try,on a small tube amp... L& M ended up being the winner, as they didnt get my amp that they could not sell and i bought the tube amp anyways..

and i know the MF-350 is not on anybody's want list, anyways things have changed since then and i do have a use for this amp, so i am not selling it..and of course like most of you, I dont care to give my gear away , i will stick it in a closet for 20 years first.$..........300.00 is what i consider nothing...

I am finding most people don't want a 1/2 stack, There time has come and gone..too many small tube amps out there and too many really good PA's.. so why lug a 1/2 stack around.. the only ones that want them are heavy metal kids...and they have no money...


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## zontar

Not sure how it works other places, but I know when I used to frequent used book stores, you got more value if you took stuff in for trade as opposed to cash.
And I've heard that from some music stores as well.

If they trade, they're moving inventory.

But still 40% sounds generous.


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## Budda

I'm surprised they have an MF-350 brand new for sale - Marshall stopped making those a while ago as far as I know.


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## Rick31797

Budda I was surprised also, i looked at it a couple times, any amp thats used will have used on the tag, this one was new, the gold knobs where not tarnished...


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## hummingway

Things seem to have changed a lot for music stores. Their mark up for new items isn't what it used to be which is why they don't horse trade the way they used to. I've been told it's very competitive and everyone tries to operate at a minimum mark up. My experience with L&M is that they're not in the used instrument business anymore so they don't have much incentive to offer you a better price. It's easy enough for a store to gauge what they'll get for equipment with a web search. They then have to factor in how it's going to affect business. Again this is just my own observation but I've found that if I go to someone who is regularly selling used equipment they will offer you a more. Whether it's a store credit or not may not make much difference unless it's a hard to sell item.


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## zontar

I was at L&M last night and saw lots of used stuff--acoustics, electric, amps & pedals.
I didn't look at the basses though.

So maybe that's just here or there.


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## keeperofthegood

zontar said:


> I was at L&M last night and saw lots of used stuff--acoustics, electric, amps & pedals.
> I didn't look at the basses though.
> 
> So maybe that's just here or there.


The L&M here in Burlington doesn't have half as much used gear as a couple years ago. They even removed their used gear room and made it a rental room then they took the doors off and made it the expensive room.


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## fudb

It's just what the market dictates. Translation: because they can. 

There's a huge amount of used stuff on the market, and the buyer/seller crowd are generally a pain in the tush for retailers - always driving for a better bargain, pointing out flaws, etc... The bulk of the market buys and sells based on very different values than the wierdo guitar nerds. They don't care what they can get one on kijiji for, they want a new one. L&M made a decision to focus on new sales which were more profitable and less hassles (frankly, the bulk of their staff aren't guitar guys and don't know from setups and fret wear and desirability, so L&M would often buy broken stuff by mistake or pay too much), so they are only doing used gear if they can buy and sell it cheap for fastest turnaround.


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## Rick31797

One thing not mentioned, is when L&M sell a used item, I am sure they put a warrenty on it for a short period of time, that would also be considered in what price they pay you..


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## Nick Burman

To sell it, you need a buyer. They have buyers walking in all day long. Factor in your time, effort and inconvenience and they are offering a good deal.


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## Powdered Toast Man

The L&M... heck, all music stores here in Winnipeg have almost no used gear whatsoever. You'll see less than a handful of pitiful looking guitars on a rack together off to the side. 

The manager at my local St. John's Music explained that on trades they offer 50% of *what they think they can sell it for*. So really, it's almost never in your best interest to trade at a music retailer. I think the big change versus 10 years ago is the proliferation of the internet buy & sell sites like Kijiji and Craigslist. Used to be your options for selling used gear were to either trade at the store or take out an ad in the paper copy of the Buy & Sell. Now, I can post an ad for free - from home - and have potential buyers almost immediately.

So if the store figures they could sell your used piece for $500, they'll offer you $250. If you go home and put it on Kijiji for $400 you'll probably sell it no problem and still come out ahead of what you would have gotten on trade.


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## Budda

The golden rule is "Don't sell your used gear to a music store". Try for consignment if you must.


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## Rick31797

> To sell it, you need a buyer. They have buyers walking in all day long. Factor in your time, effort and inconvenience and they are offering a good deal.


The 300.00 was a good deal to them not me. the inconvenience was lugging the head to Toronto in the first place and expecting a decent trade value for my marshall head...


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## jb welder

They can't give you a price they would have a hard time selling it for. Have you checked used prices for those amps in the GTA area? For $500 they don't seem to sell. As someone else mentioned, they (L&M) have to warranty it. And new price has nothing to do with the value. Look what happens to the trade value of a new car if you try to trade it in a month later.
Not meaning to sound rude, but I think your price expectations were a bit high. You will never get the same money on a trade as you would if you sold it privately, and that is your option. $300 may seem low, but I don't think it's outrageous. What if you had to wait 6 months to sell it privately and ended up taking $400 or less? 
The other factor that will affect the trade value is what you were going to buy with the trade. I don't think you mentioned that.
One other question, is it just L&M that is the problem, or did you get a trade value from anywhere else?


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## Rick31797

you people find it easy to devalue my amp head , but the truth is everybody has a bottom line.. you have too respect my bottom line and its not 300.00 from L and M or private....i dont care what Ebay says or Kijiji...if i dont get my botton line , it simple i keep it..


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## jb welder

Please don't take it personally. I don't think anyone here meant you any disrespect. You are totally entitled to your bottom line, I have stuff myself that I would only sell for more than market value. But it is market value we are talking about here, and a music store can only sell it for market value, so they offer you less (someone mentioned 70% of market value, which seems fairly reasonable). Also, you were wanting to trade on a $600 item, that's not a big money maker for them. Against a $1200 amp they may have been a bit more generous.
Anyway, as I said before, I don't think anyone here means any disrespect, but you seem to be slamming L&M for doing what any other music store would do, and that doesn't seem fair. Sorry if I offended you, that was not my intent.


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## torndownunit

Rick31797 said:


> you people find it easy to devalue my amp head , but the truth is everybody has a bottom line.. you have too respect my bottom line and its not 300.00 from L and M or private....i dont care what Ebay says or Kijiji...if i dont get my botton line , it simple i keep it..


Nobody is disrespecting your 'bottom line'. They are giving you unbiased opinion on both L&M's policy in this regard, and value based on what they have seen doing research. You have people taking the time to help out on both accounts, which is far from showing you any disrespect. jb welder's post above on the matter is pretty accurate.

If your 'bottom line' is such a factor, then bypass L&M and sell it privately. Yes you will make a bit more than that they are offering, but as people have mentioned there are other factors to take into account when choosing the trade option. People generally go that route for a reason. I think once you try selling it privately though, you will see their trade value wasn't as outrageous as you thought on that particular amp.

You can take this as another sign of disrespect if you want, but I looked up completed auctions for that head on eBay. The most they sold for was $375. A lot of them come up for sale used within Canada doing a Google search, and don't seem to be selling. Looking up reviews on Harmony Central, the most current used price that someone got one for is $400 (which is more relative than what someone paid for one 4 months ago). People also have paid $600 for the head AND cab on there used. You can also see cached Google listings for ones that sold on Kijiji, and their last listing price was $450 OBO (which means they likely went for less). These are all factors any store will consider when it comes to trade value. These are all factors you will have to deal with selling it privately.

I am not trying to be a jerk. You started this thread and all people are doing is trying to answer your questions. No one here gets any benefit from what price you sell or trade your amp for. They are just trying to help.


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## Rick31797

I started the thread, and the question was more then answered after the first couple posts, from there it was people degrading the value to basically 300.00 and i keep saying that wont happen.. as if you guys dont have a bottom line, and of course a bottom line is a major factor, that's the reason for selling too get a decent price....we dont give our gear away.. and when people list gear in the forsale column and people see the price, they keep there personal feelings to them themselves i dont see anybody posting a negative comment there, about the price, being too high, and they sell on ebay for 375.00 and its called being respectful..

Its pretty easy too low ball the price on someone else's gear.. when you say 375.00 on ebay, did you forget the seller pays a shipping cost?? That is always a factor when people are bidding, I have been selling and buying on Ebay for 8 yrs i know how it works.You can put a good price on an item and the shipping cost is the deal breaker.

these type of comments are not being respectful 



> That's not a very desirable amp, sorry to say. I'd make you a small wager and give you odds, that you don't get $500 for it.
> 
> New retail listing price of $1299 has absolutely ZERO to do with its value now.




By the way L&M, said a private sale i should get 500.00 for it..so since everybody is with L & M here you should respect there words and agree, that my head is worth 500.00 street price , and no less .I thought i could get that if i did a trade in on another amp, but it didnt happen and thats fine, i have nothing against L& M, i ended up buying the amp anyways from them.


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## hardasmum

Rick31797 said:


> I started the thread, and the question was more then answered after the first couple posts, from there it was people degrading the value to basically 300.00 and i keep saying that wont happen.. as if you guys dont have a bottom line, and of course a bottom line is a major factor, that's the reason for selling too get a decent price....we dont give our gear away.. and when people list gear in the forsale column and people see the price, they keep there personal feelings to them themselves i dont see anybody posting a negative comment there, about the price, being too high, and they sell on ebay for 375.00 and its called being respectful..
> 
> Its pretty easy too low ball the price on someone else's gear.. when you say 375.00 on ebay, did you forget the seller pays a shipping cost?? That is always a factor when people are bidding, I have been selling and buying on Ebay for 8 yrs i know how it works.You can put a good price on an item and the shipping cost is the deal breaker.
> 
> these type of comments are not being respectful
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not a very desirable amp, sorry to say. I'd make you a small wager and give you odds, that you don't get $500 for it.
> 
> New retail listing price of $1299 has absolutely ZERO to do with its value now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way L&M, said a private sale i should get 500.00 for it..so since everybody is with L & M here you should respect there words and agree, that my head is worth 500.00 street price , and no less .I thought i could get that if i did a trade in on another amp, but it didnt happen and thats fine, i have nothing against L& M, i ended up buying the amp anyways from them.
Click to expand...

Sometimes the truth hurts. A bitter pill to swallow.


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## Rick31797

another comment not related to the post



> Sometimes the truth hurts. A bitter pill to swallow.


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## hardasmum

Rick31797 said:


> another comment not related to the post
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes the truth hurts. A bitter pill to swallow.
Click to expand...

No one has been rude to you, they have done online research FOR you but you don't care for their feedback. 

I have been burned myself, purchasing a 16 track digital recorder for +$2000 and selling it for $500 two years later. It was worth $1000 to me, but NO ONE was going to pay more than $500 for it, (by the way you could still buy a slightly updated new one for $2000 at the time). My bottom line was not market value. My loss.

A bitter pill to swallow never more relevant.


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## GuitarsCanada

It can be a tough game in the secondary market. Some things get a good re-sale value and some don't. The best way to figure it out is to list them. Put whatever price you want on it and the market will take it from there. If you want $500 then list it at that price and see what happens. The market does the rest. If nobody goes near it for a month then you know what you have to do. A few people posted up on the value guide forum for book pricing on their gear, got the value and then deleted their threads. Sometimes we don't want to know the value, especially if it is nowhere near what we think it should be.

But the advice given above seems reasonable. Take an average of the last several that have sold and that will pretty much tell you where they are in value, or what people are willing to pay for them.

I had a guy contact me a while back that had a Rockman XP212 combo. There was only about 10-12 of them made. His looked like the day it was made back in 1991 or so. I have one myself and paid $1200 for it many years ago. This guy wanted about $5000 for his. Just not going to happen. They are worth what someone is willing to pay. Rare or not they are only worth so much. This is true for everything in life.

You have to figure that buyers are doing the research too and they are going to see the same numbers that you see when they do the research. So when they see the numbers thats what they are going to offer.


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## torndownunit

Rick31797 said:


> I started the thread, and the question was more then answered after the first couple posts, from there it was people degrading the value to basically 300.00 and i keep saying that wont happen.. as if you guys dont have a bottom line, and of course a bottom line is a major factor, that's the reason for selling too get a decent price....we dont give our gear away.. and when people list gear in the forsale column and people see the price, they keep there personal feelings to them themselves i dont see anybody posting a negative comment there, about the price, being too high, and they sell on ebay for 375.00 and its called being respectful..
> 
> Its pretty easy too low ball the price on someone else's gear.. when you say 375.00 on ebay, did you forget the seller pays a shipping cost?? That is always a factor when people are bidding, I have been selling and buying on Ebay for 8 yrs i know how it works.You can put a good price on an item and the shipping cost is the deal breaker.
> 
> these type of comments are not being respectful
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way L&M, said a private sale i should get 500.00 for it..so since everybody is with L & M here you should respect there words and agree, that my head is worth 500.00 street price , and no less .I thought i could get that if i did a trade in on another amp, but it didnt happen and thats fine, i have nothing against L& M, i ended up buying the amp anyways from them.


Since you have stated you don't care about people's input, this is my last post on the subject. When selling or trading a used item locally, shipping does not matter, taxes do not matter, cost of the item new does not matter. The only thing that matters is what the going market value is. If you think people pointing that out is rude than so be it. As hardasmum has pointed out, no one has been rude to you. People are going out of there way to find info and give helpful replies. The only one being rude in the thread is you.

As GuitarsCanada and others including myself have pointed out, if you really think it's worth more than list if for sale privately for more and go for it. We are only pointing out that L&M's trade offer was far from insulting when you do research online to check what those amps are selling for used. The information I so disrespectfully and rudely looked up for you took me about 10 minutes to find. Anyone in the market for that amp, or doing a trade deal with you, will look up the exact same information.


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## StevieMac

Among other things, one of the things I'm employed at is "gambling researcher". I often think of new gear purchases as just that, a form of "gambling", in which the outcome (in terms of valuation) is _largely_ out of the person's control once the "wager" (purchase) has been made. 

I guess I'd offer the same advice that I do to other "gamblers" then...you can always HOPE to win, but never EXPECT to win. By the same token, there's no problem _hoping_ to get $500 for your amp, but _expecting _it could lead to disappointment. I hope your bottom line does get met...you never know! Cheers.


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## Guest

StevieMac said:


> Among other things, one of the things I'm employed at is "gambling researcher".


You're in insurance?


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## Spellcaster

Years ago when I was in the audio business, it was common practice to limit the trade-in value to an amount equal to the markup above dealer cost. That way, if a trade-in sat on the shelf forever, or turned out to have an issue that incurred a service cost before it could be sold, the dealer's covered the wholesale cost of the new item that was sold.


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## Rick31797

*I find it funny how people read posts and take away what they want to think...

*


> *Since you have stated you don't care about people's input*


*

I dont care for people's Negative Input..over over again... I get it, you all have judged by research that my amp privately is not worth 500.00 or maybe even 300.00 and that its not favored , basically a nice paper weight... 
This is what i have heard over and over again, read the post twice so it sinks in.

I really dont care what people think my amp is worth, the post was about trade in value at L& Mand that was answered many posts ago..,
All i said is i have a bottom line and its not 300.00 ..nothing rude about that..

When i talked about ebay, i said ok somebody wins the amp for 370.00 thats not what they paid, there is a shipping charge on top of that.. so they could very well have 500.00 into the amp.

So what i am saying is using Ebay completed listings is not that accurate if you base it only on selling price.

Why keep talking about the value of my amp from ebay to Kijij...why not stay on the subject.. WHY DOES L& M OFFER SUCH A LOW TRADE IN VALUE... That question has be answered I will say it again That question has been answered... now you can close the post... i know why. i get it i understand... no need too beat up on my gear... i know what the street value is, and i know what my bottom line is.. and i knew all that before i posted this questions .....so its all good..


*


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## GuitarsCanada

Rick31797 said:


> *I find it funny how people read posts and take away what they want to think...
> 
> 
> 
> I dont care for people's Negative Input..over over again... I get it, you all have judged by research that my amp privately is not worth 500.00 or maybe even 300.00 and that its not favored , basically a nice paper weight...
> This is what i have heard over and over again, read the post twice so it sinks in.
> 
> I really dont care what people think my amp is worth, the post was about L& M and that was answered many posts ago..
> All i said is i have a bottom line and its no 300.00 ..
> 
> When i talked about ebay, i said ok somebody win the amp for 370.00 thats not what they paid, there is a shipping charge on top of that.. so they could very well have 500.00 into the amp.
> So what i am saying is using Ebay completed listings is not that accurate if you base it only on selling price.
> 
> 
> When i write this you start talking about selling local, and shipping dont matter... duhh!! you think i never sold anything off Kijiji..
> You keep talking about the value of my amp...why not stay on the subject.. WHY DOES L& M OFFER SUCH A LOW TRADE IN VALUE... That question has be answered I will say it again That question has been answered... now you can close the post... i know why. i get it i understand... no need too beat up on my gear... i know what the street value is, and i know what my bottom line is.. and i knew all that before i posted this questions .....so its all good..
> 
> 
> *


I would respectfully submit to you that the posts regarding the selling price/value of the item being posted by the guys that looked them up does indeed have a lot to do with L&M and what they offered you. They are looking them up too and seeing what they are selling for. They know they cant put a used item on the floor and expect to get 40% more for it then what they are selling for on the open market. I would always expect a retail store to be asking a little more, but not a huge amount. They are in the business of moving product, not adorning shelves and taking up floor space. They want the stuff moved out ASAP.

For a retail shop or pawn shop etc its all about moving the stuff fast at a profit. So they know the prices, they have to. 

But again, there is nothing stopping anyone from asking whatever they want for an item. If someone is out there willing to pay it then it will sell. Its really very simple.

Shipping is irrelevant. Its a service and not a physical item. If the amp sold for $370.00 and the shipping cost $100 they still paid $370 for the amp. The amp was worth $370 to them.


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## Rick31797

I didnt buy this amp brand new, so i wont take a hit on it.. buying new is " Almost Always a disaster, unless you buy the right item and you hang on to it... for EG My 1982 Les Paul Custom ( now lets not pick on this)

L & M is actually doing me a favor, as if somebody see the new one for 1299.00, and they see mine for 500.00, then it looks like a good buy as it is a good buy for what it is.


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## Rick31797

*wow*



> Shipping is irrelevant. Its a service and not a physical item. If the amp sold for $370.00 and the shipping cost $100 they still paid $370 for the amp. The amp was worth $370 to them.


My oh my i am just speech-less sorry but i do not agree as the numbers dont add up


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## GuitarsCanada

Rick31797 said:


> My oh my i am just speech-less sorry but i do not agree as the numbers dont add up


Look at it this way. If you got the amp from some guy in the states and paid $100 for the shipping. Then 6 months later I met you on the street and you said you wanted $500 for it because you had to pay $100 for shipping when you bought it. Do you think I care that you put $100 into shipping? That money cannot be tacked onto to the next guy looking to buy it. If you happened to drop some money into the amp itself with upgrades, then that is something you can ask the next buyer to pay for. So shipping is indeed irrelevant when you go to sell it.


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## Rick31797

I get that, but this is the way i do it...ok i buy an amp at L & M for 549.00 with taxes it costs me 620.00 what did i pay for the amp.. I paid 620.00 for the amp.. i include the taxes like i would include the shipping, that is the true cost out of my pocket.. But the Value of the amp is 549.00, and on resale i agree, if i was to sell this amp a year from now i would not include the tax or shipping .. that is a wash...

But if somebody ask me what the amp cost me, it cost me 620.00 total.


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## jb welder

Rick31797 said:


> *why not stay on the subject.. WHY DOES L& M OFFER SUCH A LOW TRADE IN VALUE... That question has be answered I will say it again That question has been answered... now you can close the post... i know why. i get it i understand... .. and i knew all that before i posted this questions .....so its all good..
> *


 Sorry for not letting this go but I think the title of your post caused most of the negative reaction. You could have said "music stores" instead of L&M and I think people got the impression you were slamming them. If you "*knew all that before i posted this questions" *it makes me think you really were taking a shot at them. I hope you understand how it appeared you were implying they were less "decent" than other stores in terms of trade evaluation.
However, you also stated that you have nothing against L&M and bought another amp off them anyway. So I will put it all down to a misunderstanding and hope you will avoid "leading questions" in thread titles.








I sincerely hope you get your price for your amp and enjoy your new one.
Merry Christmas & best wishes for the New Year!


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## GuitarsCanada

Rick31797 said:


> I get that, but this is the way i do it...ok i buy an amp at L & M for 549.00 with taxes it costs me 620.00 what did i pay for the amp.. I paid 620.00 for the amp.. i include the taxes like i would include the shipping, that is the true cost out of my pocket.. But the Value of the amp is 549.00, and on resale i agree, if i was to sell this amp a year from now i would not include the tax or shipping .. that is a wash...
> 
> But if somebody ask me what the amp cost me, it cost me 620.00 total.


I agree with what you are saying in terms of the total out of pocket you paid. But when you enter the secondary market it all goes out the window. If I could recover all the cash I lost buying new and then selling later I could retire very soon. Unfortunately in almost every circumstance you are going to lose on the initial investment. Pricing of all things on earth always has and always will be dictated by market demand. They sell for the highest price the market will bare.


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## torndownunit

GuitarsCanada said:


> I agree with what you are saying in terms of the total out of pocket you paid. But when you enter the secondary market it all goes out the window. If I could recover all the cash I lost buying new and then selling later I could retire very soon. Unfortunately in almost every circumstance you are going to lose on the initial investment. Pricing of all things on earth always has and always will be dictated by market demand. They sell for the highest price the market will bare.


That is the bottom, worded perfectly. It applies to pretty much everything, not just guitar gear.

No one in the thread is saying the resale value situation is ideal in any way. It's just the way it is.

If you start a thread targeting someone/someplace/something then expect there to be discussion on the matter. This is a discussion forum. You can get mad at us for repeating the same things over and over again, but every time the reasons for L&M's trade policy are explained you go right back to knocking them again. All of this discussion on market value *IS* directly related to L&M's policies and what you got offered for the amp. So it ends up getting discussed or explained again.

I am no fan of L&M for many reasons. But their trade policy is what it is and it's no different than any other store. So to target them for that is ridiculous. There exists an easy solution and that is if you don't like store's trade policies, sell privately and ask what you want for the item.


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## hummingway

It really is, as they say, what the market will bear. You may get the cost of shipping back if the object is desired and unavailable locally. You may get a decent trade in from a store if there is enough mark up on the item you are buying for them to view the trade in as a discount. Guitars used to be sold more like cars. You could negotiate a better price, or you could get a good trade in, or you could get extras thrown in, or if you didn't ask they'd take the full price from you. I'm told there is so no margin to spare so now they are mostly sold at the lowest price they can afford to sell at. 

If a store keep knew he had a customer for an instrument then they are likely to be more willing but most trade-ins represent the same dollars coming into the store that the new item does. They can sell the new one for a greater profit to the guy by giving him 12 easy payments or they can make less money off the used item so it's easy to see where they are going to sit. Meanwhile the guy who bought the amp last year is dumping it since he now wants brand x real bad and jimminy if he can't buy it on credit, so the price he is offering lowers the used market value.

If it's your bottom line hang on to it, use it, hope it increases in value. It could happen but it usually takes a long time.


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## Roryfan

Unless their policies have changed recently, L&M's policy of 70% trade-in towards a used/downgrade item & 80% towards new/upgrade was much better than the majority of stores which tend to offer 50% of what they can sell it for. You also save the HST on the trade-in portion of the transaction which takes some sting out of the deal. 

Bottom line is expect to either keep it or lose a few bucks if you buy new. Or buy good used gear and try to follow the Gambler's (Kenny Rogers, not the insurance guy) creed: "Know when to hold 'em....maybe you can break even & die in your sleep".


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## Guitar101

A couple of years ago, I was going to sell my Yamaha CP60M piano (baby brother to the CP70 only it's an upright). I was thinking of around $1200 or I'd keep it. Dropped into the local music store and the first thing the owner did while I was standing there was go online and found one for $600 asking price. It didn't matter what condition it was in. That's where he wanted to start. I never even asked him to make me an offer which I'm sure would have been 3 or 4 hundred dollars. That would have been an insult to the condition I kept mine in. On the other hand, I had previously listed and sold a Rhodes 88 suitcase piano on Ebay for $1000 Can. The Rhodes was in poor condition but I got offers from around the world if I would ship it. Eventually sold it to a guy in Michigan who picked it up. The Yamaha was a much better piano but the Rhodes was in demand for whatever reason. I never really did like the sound of a Rhodes but that's me. My point: Dealers go online and compare your well looked after equipment to anything they find online and that's their starting point. Demand for your product is the next thing that comes into play. They know their low balling you but some people need the trade-in to be able to afford their purchase so they make the deal. It's not fair but it's the world we live in. Take care Rick and enjoy your new amp.


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## Rick31797

I see people here that will buy a new guitar for 3,000 and a year later they are asking 1800.00 hoping to get 1650.00, This is why i don't sell much , i would rather put it in a closet then take a hit like that...so this amp will either be used or go in a closet tell i choose too bring it out into the world again.

And Again I have nothing against L&M, I used there name because it was the only store i go too when i am in Toronto, as there are so many of them... I spent close to 2,000.00 this year, maybe not much for some but alot for me, and i am not ticked off they offered me so little for my amp, i get it, i thought it would be better as i wanted to trade for another new amp.. but i also understand the more i spend the better there offer would be.. if i bought 2,500 worth of gear, they would probably have gave me 500.00 for my amp.. I get that.

I am just not a person to have to sell my gear, i am lucky that way...If i don't get what i think its worth i keep it.. can't get any more simple.

Guitar 101. The dealers probably head to Ebay to check prices like the pawnshops do and when you go to completed listing, and several of the same items have sold .... i have seen a wide margin on the very same product, of course they would look at the lowest number and go down from there.


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## jimihendrix

One thing not mentioned here is that when someone makes a trade in to Long and Mcquade...they are asked if the item was purchased at L &M...

If you mention that it was purchased at another music store...you are immediately offered 10 per cent less trade-in value for your goods...

The reason given by the clerk is somewhat bogus and discriminatory...

L&M only like to purchase goods from their distributor...but guess what...

When I mention this quirk to competitor stores...they tell me that the L&M distributor is where ALL the local Canadian music stores get their inventory...

Yorkville Sound....which is owned by L&M...

It's just a crock of B.S. cooked up by L&M to lowball buyers by another 10 per cent...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yorkville_Sound


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## zontar

Budda said:


> The golden rule is "Don't sell your used gear to a music store". Try for consignment if you must.


Selling to a music store is more an option if there's an urgency, or you can't be bothered with the hassle of selling it yourself--but then you pay for that.

If you can accept that great--otherwise--yeah--it's better to sell it yourself.


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## torndownunit

Over the last year I have mainly been selling items on consignment through a local store. I pay a 15% fee, but I gotta say it's been worth it. The most work I do is to post on Facebook and a couple of other places that the items are for sale and where they are. All the items have sold quickly and I don't have to deal with any hassle.


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## Rick31797

They take 20 % of the cost on consignment here., and some places wont even do it, they say they dont want to be responsible for the item getting marked or dented up


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## torndownunit

Rick31797 said:


> They take 20 % of the cost on consignment here., and some places wont even do it, they say they dont want to be responsible for the item getting marked or dented up


Ya as far as % etc., you just gotta decide if you think paying it outweighs the potentials hassles of dealing on Kijiji etc. I have never had any really bad Kijiji/Craigs experiences personally, but I definitely have had situations where I have had to wait around for people who are late or no shows. That's annoying enough lol. And it can be very time consuming selling on Kijiji.

Another factor is how well the store does with consignment sales. The place I have been taking my stuff to seems to turn over consignment gear really quickly. I price my stuff to sell, but I have never had a guitar take more than 3 weeks to sell there. The last one I dropped off actually sold while they had it hanging in the back to process and tag it in fact. If the place doesn't ever sell consignment gear and doesn't care about it, it can just be a waste of time.

The other thing with the % they take, you can try adding it onto your asking price. There seems to be a certain type of shopper I find that would rather buy stuff from a store. Sometimes they will pay a bit more and you get lucky.


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## hummingway

I think that when places do consignment it's a very good option for everybody. I would expect a store to be responsible for loss and I imagine their insurance would cover that but I hadn't thought about instruments getting marked. I imagine it is a fact of life in a store.


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## Rick31797

*L&m*

I have sold alot off Kijiji, most the time, i just meet a person, but had a dirtbag really screw me around last month.. Had to go to Toronto, so i told the guy i would bring the item with me and deliver it, as long as it was not to far off 401. I get to Toronto, i call him and he sounded like i just woke him up , all he says is call him the next day at 330.. i said ok, i was leaving the next day wanted to get out of the city before 330 it was a Friday, so i made an exception..

I ended up going too L & M at Markham rd, i call him, turns out his address is Bathhurst area, so i drove back west, traffic by that time was bad, got to his house, 50 mins later and , nobody home... I call no answer, i left and called one more time no answer... so the low life scammed me , i spent alot of time and gas, doing a guy a favor and this is what happens... so never again will i do anything like that... it also put me in a bad position,walking into a strangers house..


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## zontar

torndownunit said:


> Over the last year I have mainly been selling items on consignment through a local store. I pay a 15% fee, but I gotta say it's been worth it. The most work I do is to post on Facebook and a couple of other places that the items are for sale and where they are. All the items have sold quickly and I don't have to deal with any hassle.


Sounds like a nice set up.


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## Davestp1

_I see people here that will buy a new guitar for 3,000 and a year later they are asking 1800.00 hoping to get 1650.00,

_This is why I have never bought anything other than a boss tuner pedal and cables new. Never a guitar or an amp.


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## zontar

Davestp1 said:


> _I see people here that will buy a new guitar for 3,000 and a year later they are asking 1800.00 hoping to get 1650.00,
> 
> _This is why I have never bought anything other than a boss tuner pedal and cables new. Never a guitar or an amp.


I've bought new & used, but my plan is to keep it and not sell it, so I'm not worried about resale value.


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## Davestp1

zontar said:


> I've bought new & used, but my plan is to keep it and not sell it, so I'm not worried about resale value.


In my case, new equipment does not interest me in the least. I am more interested in vintage gear.


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## Nick Burman

I'm a huge fan of L&M for one main reason (other than the staff) - no commission. When I go to other stores I can't believe the pressure. It's scary.


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## Rick31797

I was in a few stores in Edmonton last summer and i didnt find any pressure at all, at Axe music or L&M , The staff was great, left us alone. The only store i have ever been in where i felt very uncomfortable is Avenue Music in Edmonton, and the store is so small they don't have to follow you, they just stare at you, They actually Pivot on there feet as you move around the store , so you have many eyes watching you and you are not allowed to pick up a guitar without there assistance.. 


In Toronto at Cosmos, I was in that store for over 1 hr and they also left me alone, was the only guy upstairs among all those custom shop guitars and nobody even came up to see what i was up too...


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## Rick31797

I see Avenue Music in Edmonton have a " Used " Marshall Mode 4 head and Cabinet for 1899.00 so cannot see why My head and Cabt, for 900.00 is not reasonable , thats less then 1/2 of a used price. When people are selling here, on the forum they seem to try and get 1/2 of the new price...


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## torndownunit

Rick31797 said:


> I see Avenue Music in Edmonton have a " Used " Marshall Mode 4 head and Cabinet for 1899.00 so cannot see why My head and Cabt, for 900.00 is not reasonable , thats less then 1/2 of a used price. When people are selling here, on the forum they seem to try and get 1/2 of the new price...


As mentioned in most posts in the thread, try and sell if for that if that is how you feel. But again, check with them as to how long they have had it listed for that price. I am not trying to start this argument again, but I can go online within 10 minutes and pull up several examples of the cab and head for sale for around $900 (and not selling for that price). If I was looking at the amp in that store, that is exactly what I would tell them to get them down on the price. And it's the same thing someone will do to you when you try to sell it. They KNOW they have it priced too high, and they are either waiting to be talked down on it, or just hoping they get someone in the store that doesn't research their purchases. But the bottom line is try to sell if for whatever you WANT to try to sell it for!

You same to take the these kind of comments personally, but it's just an explanation of the market. List something for whatever you want. But if you really want to sell it in any timely fashion, list it for market price. And be prepared to get ambushed with emails from Kijiji and Craigslist if you list something way above market value. You will find out very quickly the people in this thread are not rude. You will find out what REAL rudeness is lol.


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## Rick31797

I think if you went into avenue and offer them 600.00 for the head and Cabt, they would think your not in your right mind..I could see them going too 1200.00..if they are asking 1899.00 you would think the guy that traded it in got a decent trade end value , or maybe just gave it away...like some do... but not me, i think 900.00 for the cabt & head is a good price and i would not budge any lower...like i said before we all have a bottom line... the poor guy that paid 2,000 new for his les paul is trying now to get 1500.00 but he is getting offers of 1200.00 ,which is hitting below the belt..in my eyes..


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## torndownunit

Rick31797 said:


> I think if you went into avenue and offer them 600.00 for the head and Cabt, they would think your not in your right mind..I could see them going too 1200.00..if they are asking 1899.00 you would think the guy that traded it in got a decent trade end value , or maybe just gave it away...like some do... but not me, i think 900.00 for the cabt & head is a good price and i would not budge any lower...like i said before we all have a bottom line... the poor guy that paid 2,000 new for his les paul is trying now to get 1500.00 but he is getting offers of 1200.00 ,which is hitting below the belt..in my eyes..


Again, 'in your eyes' is the key phrase. If you are buying a $2000 Les Paul, then you should know the market. If you don't plan on holding onto it, plan on taking a loss when you sell it. 

There are amps and guitars you won't take a beating on when you sell, and there are amps and guitars that you will. Your amp happens to be one with bad resale value. It's just the way it goes. 

I there is a piece of gear I am looking at that I even THINK I will be selling within a year, I look at the used market. EG I have a hankering for an Orange Rocker 30 head right now. I have seen 2 locally in the last 3 months that were $900. With taxes new they were almost twice that. So I wouldn't buy it new.


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## Rick31797

I think if you buy an Orange rocker for 1800.00 plus and then sell it for 900.00 your taking a whipping...but it must be another amp that just does hold there value.., i wonder where it bottoms out, does this head someday sell for 100.00...

I dont normally buy new gear because of the terrible re-sale you get, i try and buy good used amps and guitars, but i have to say this year i bought 2 new guitars and a amp..( You know just had to have them)..I just found the new amp i bought, i waited for a used one for several months, posted ads and nothing came up.. nobody letting go of them.., so i bought a new one..


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## hummingway

It does seem if you buy new you do take a beating on resale. Market conditions make it a good time to buy used right now but a lousy time to sell. When the economy south of the border improves though prices will come up a bit as demand comes up.


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## torndownunit

hummingway said:


> It does seem if you buy new you do take a beating on resale. Market conditions make it a good time to buy used right now but a lousy time to sell. When the economy south of the border improves though prices will come up a bit as demand comes up.


It depends on the item though no matter what the economy is like. A lot of current gear just doesn't have very good resale value because there isn't a demand on the used market for it. Or because it's too common on the used market.


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## Rick31797

I wonder what one new guitar or amp you could buy that you would hold there value after one year....


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## GuitarsCanada

Rick31797 said:


> I wonder what one new guitar or amp you could buy that you would hold there value after one year....


Thats a tough call today, not many if any. Even the boutique stuff is going to drop in value


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## hummingway

In some way people value new. Even if a warranty is still on an item the value just disappears when it goes out the door. About the only exceptions are some limited edition and high end hand made stuff where waiting lists are long.


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## torndownunit

GuitarsCanada said:


> Thats a tough call today, not many if any. Even the boutique stuff is going to drop in value


That is actually the stuff you can take a real beating on. Selling stuff like that is a nightmare through Kijiji. Some of the higher end boutique stuff you end up with no choice but to ship it because the market is so small for it.


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## zontar

Davestp1 said:


> In my case, new equipment does not interest me in the least. I am more interested in vintage gear.


Hey, that's cool.

I just like stuff that's different than what I have--I like variety--so used or new--both apply.


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## Guitar101

Rick31797 said:


> I wonder what one new guitar or amp you could buy that you would hold there value after one year....


I played a Korean made James Tyler Variax over the holidays that blew me away. The sounds coming from this guitar are simply amazing. The US made one's are 3 or 4 G's and I don`t know how the quality could be any better so I`m going to say that this guitar should hold it`s $1500 value after one year IMO.


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## hummingway

Guitar101 said:


> I played a Korean made James Tyler Variax over the holidays that blew me away. The sounds coming from this guitar are simply amazing. The US made one's are 3 or 4 G's and I don`t know how the quality could be any better so I`m going to say that this guitar should hold it`s $1500 value after one year IMO.


Doesn't Sweetwater sell these new for $1199 in the US? What do you expect to get for it in one year?


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## Guitar101

hummingway said:


> Doesn't Sweetwater sell these new for $1199 in the US? What do you expect to get for it in one year?


I don't expect to get anything. As my post say's, I played one, I didn't buy it. I did check Sweetwater and the model I played is still holding it $1500US value. Line 6 JTV-59 (Tobacco)


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## hummingway

Guitar101 said:


> I don't expect to get anything. As my post say's, I played one, I didn't buy it. I did check Sweetwater and the model I played is still holding it $1500US value. Line 6 JTV-59 (Tobacco)


You're talking new price? I think it's used prices that folks expect to drop not the new price. It seems like a nice enough guitar and if people want the variax feature they'll sell but my guess is that those very features will see that guitar drop rapidly in price on the used market.


----------



## Guitar101

Rick31797 said:


> I wonder what one new guitar or amp you could buy that you would hold there value after one year....





hummingway said:


> You're talking new price? I think it's used prices that folks expect to drop not the new price. It seems like a nice enough guitar and if people want the variax feature they'll sell but my guess is that those very features will see that guitar drop rapidly in price on the used market.


I was just replying to Rick31797's inquiry. Not everyone will like the high-tech features of the Variax but right now the guitars are on backorder. We will have to see if they can hold their value after one year.


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## torndownunit

Guitar101 said:


> I was just replying to Rick31797's inquiry. Not everyone will like the high-tech features of the Variax but right now the guitars are on backorder. We will have to see if they can hold their value after one year.


They won't because the technology is progressing so quickly. Items like modelling amps and guitars will likely be the items that decline the quickest in value.


----------



## Guitar101

Rick31797 said:


> I wonder what one new guitar or amp you could buy that you would hold there value after one year....





torndownunit said:


> They won't because the technology is progressing so quickly. Items like modelling amps and guitars will likely be the items that decline the quickest in value.


You may be right but the nice feature about this modelling guitar is, it looks, plays and sounds like a normal guitar (Line 6 JTV-59 (Tobacco). The modelling feature is just a bonus. We shall see.


----------



## hummingway

Guitar101 said:


> You may be right but the nice feature about this modelling guitar is, it looks, plays and sounds like a normal guitar (Line 6 JTV-59 (Tobacco). The modelling feature is just a bonus. We shall see.


I've noticed this is more how bells and whistles are being done now. Make it a guitar first and add the digital/synth stuff on top. It means the instrument has a chance at a normal life.  Hopefully they've designed with software and hardware upgrades in mind as well.


----------



## triplec

This thread is unbelievable...8 pages because a guy thinks he can get a better trade-in value than what L&M offered...meh move on folks...


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## Rick31797

> This thread is unbelievable...8 pages because a guy thinks he can get a better trade-in value than what L&M offered...meh move on folks.


I know you didn't read all 8 pages..lol


----------



## torndownunit

triplec said:


> This thread is unbelievable...8 pages because a guy thinks he can get a better trade-in value than what L&M offered...meh move on folks...


This is a discussion forum. If you don't like the thread, you don't have to participate in it.


----------



## mario

triplec said:


> This thread is unbelievable...8 pages because a guy thinks he can get a better trade-in value than what L&M offered...meh move on folks...


LOL...honestly I typed in your same post word by word a couple of days ago and then decided not to post. Totally agree with you! OP....do not take your used gear to any music store and expect full trade in value. MOVE ON!


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## Rick31797

I vote to say " Keep It Alive" as i have posted many times and got either no response or very little, so this thread is a knock-out.


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## hummingway

mario said:


> LOL...honestly I typed in your same post word by word a couple of days ago and then decided not to post. Totally agree with you! OP....do not take your used gear to any music store and expect full trade in value. MOVE ON!


I see you've done the sensible thing and not read all the posts in the thread since you weren't interested. Of course if you had read them you'd realize there were folks having a discussion related to but not the same as the subject in the first post.


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## mario

hummingway said:


> I see you've done the sensible thing and not read all the posts in the thread since you weren't interested. Of course if you had read them you'd realize there were folks having a discussion related to but not the same as the subject in the first post.


I have read all the posts and I stand by my post. Sorry if I offended anyone.


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## triplec

torndownunit said:


> This is a discussion forum. If you don't like the thread, you don't have to participate in it.


Ok I'll participate...L&M offered $300. Rick31797 didn't think that was enough money...I would say Rick31797 has every opportunity to sell or trade his gear elsewhere. Is this really a debate or discussion?


----------



## Rick31797

> Ok I'll participate...L&M offered $300. Rick31797 didn't think that was enough money...I would say Rick31797 has every opportunity to sell or trade his gear elsewhere. Is this really a debate or discussion?



Of course i have the option to sell elsewhere, 

i just cannot figure out why there is such a huge gap from new to what they offer me.. new head 1299.00 ..offer on used 300.00 , it would have been interesting if i had traded it,what they would price they would have for it on the floor, i have a feeling that it would be more then 500.00 as what they told me they would sell it for.


----------



## hummingway

mario said:


> I have read all the posts and I stand by my post. Sorry if I offended anyone.


I'm not offended, I just find it curious. It begs the question, why are you still reading the thread? It is optional although I do understand sometimes a train wreck draws the eye against the will.  To me the thread is about resale value in general and that's a interesting topic. It shows up in other threads as well.


----------



## parkhead

Rick31797 said:


> Of course i have the option to sell elsewhere,
> 
> i just cannot figure out why there is such a huge gap from new to what they offer me.. new head 1299.00 ..offer on used 300.00 , it would have been interesting if i had traded it,what they would price they would have for it on the floor, i have a feeling that it would be more then 500.00 as what they told me they would sell it for.


 
Music stores offer "trade in" as a service to customers who are short the full purchase price on an item. 
Music stores are not obliged to take your item. 
Music stores are obligated to pay their staff & suppliers for the new goods you are walking out with. 
Their bills are due 30 days from getting their stock.
Logically their motivation is to turn your trade into cash in a short timeframe. 


As a seller you should seek your best offer on your used goods thats your obligation. 
Some are motivated to trade in because they dislike the process of RETAILING their item to 
a stream of tirekickers who they fear are scoping out their house .... ect ect 

When the numbers meet in a comfortable place for both sides the trade happens. 


RE L&M unlike other music stores they put a standard MARK up on their trades, employees cannot put 
extra markup on a trade to make more money ... they are not on commission and this shenanigans would get them fired. 
Trades sitting for more than 6 months are typically marked down often below cost to move the stuff out ...
if you've ever attended an L&M blowout or garage sale you've seen this in action 

bottom line when you trade in at any music store they are not falling in love with your trade ...
they are coldly and rationally calculating the cash conversion price of your stuff 
you may not like the number they give you ... but you should be aware that that is the cost 
of saving youself all of the HARD WORK of selling your own stuff for top dollar 

regarding the comparable new item at $1299, at some point L&M will take their bath on this item as well, they were probably thinking about how their new one was not selling when evaluating your trade 

two sayings are applicable 
"a rising tide floats all boats" 
& 
"when the tide goes out we'll all know who's swimming naked" 

in other words when the market price drops on an item no one escapes the consequences even the retail operator 

when you see a dead item in a store for $1299 ... its what the stock market people call an "unrealized capital loss' 
its up to the seller to decide when and how they will take their loss 

its also understandable that they may not be rushing out to buy more stock of the same item 

its also up to you to determine when and how you want to realize your capital loss ... as you can see this is always 
a very emotionally tough decision 

p


----------



## Roryfan

parkhead said:


> "when the tide goes out we'll all know who's swimming naked"
> 
> p


LMFAO!!!! That was the funniest thing I've read in a long time (w/ the obvious exception of this thread itself)


----------



## Lemmy Hangslong

Depends on the item I guess... I've traded/sold stuff to L&M for better than offers I got on kijiji... other stuff I got less than I wanted but would have waited an indefinet period of time to sell. I will say this... currently the customer service at L&M in Calgary ( south store ) and the fairness of thier trade in and purchase values is by far the best going. 

When I purchased my new Mesa Roadking there I was absolutly and completely satisfied with all aspects of the purchase. Same with my PRS SC245 Ten Top. The staff is allways helpfull and the service is allways top notch!


----------



## parkhead

I stole that from Warren Buffet 

here's another applicable GEM: From Buffet
Long ago, Sir Isaac Newton gave us three laws of motion, which were the work of genius. But Sir Isaac's talents didn't extend to investing: He lost a bundle in the South Sea Bubble, explaining later, 'I can calculate the movement of the stars, but not the madness of men.' If he had not been traumatized by this loss, Sir Isaac might well have gone on to discover the Fourth Law of Motion: _For investors as a whole, returns decrease as motion increases_.

This Law also applies to musicians with GAS & Trade in Frenzy: 

bottom line the more you TRADE the more you lose ... the Transactional & Frictional costs of paying all the middle men & tax man and retail infrastructure are built into the process 

research your purchases well & try and be content with quailty gear ... work on your playing & work with your gear 
not FOR IT 

p


----------



## torndownunit

triplec said:


> Ok I'll participate...L&M offered $300. Rick31797 didn't think that was enough money...I would say Rick31797 has every opportunity to sell or trade his gear elsewhere. Is this really a debate or discussion?


It's a discussion about market value and used items, not just L&M's policies. A discussion that can be useful for a lot of people looking to sell and trade new gear. Again, if you don't like the thread, why do you feel the need to participate? What is more odd, that we are having a discussion on a discussion forum, or that you actually take the time to post in a thread you don't care about to insult people?


----------



## deadear

Ya I got a surprise when I offered a Peavy classic 50 black as a trade towards a guitar which has sat on their wall for at least a year. Dead mint shape and black which retailed around a grand 7 years ago. I paid $700 at l&M and they were willing to give me $200 value. Manager claimed that is what they sell for on line.
Who in their right mind buys a amp online the shipping on a 80 pound amp is over $200 bucks plus all the pounding it will get. They can eat that guitar


----------



## hummingway

deadear said:


> Ya I got a surprise when I offered a Peavy classic 50 black as a trade towards a guitar which has sat on their wall for at least a year. Dead mint shape and black which retailed around a grand 7 years ago. I paid $700 at l&M and they were willing to give me $200 value. Manager claimed that is what they sell for on line.
> Who in their right mind buys a amp online the shipping on a 80 pound amp is over $200 bucks plus all the pounding it will get. They can eat that guitar


Actually lots of people buy amps on line. If you want to find out what people are offering them for look on ebay and you'll see new and used. I don't which model you have but there are lots of Peavey Classics being offered. I think you'd have a hard time finding one for $200 though.

When you go to a store this is something the guy your talking to will do so why not do it yourself before going to see him. Deciding value is as simple as seeing what someone else is selling them for.


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## Rick31797

The stores seem to forget or don't care that when you trade in your amp or guitar and they lowball you , that the guitar or amp that you want to trade for. your paying the full price for it..no discount no sale.. so i find this deal totally one sided.. for an eg it may go like this ...... the guitar that your trading for had a price of 1,000.00 and they probably paid 300.00 for it... they give you 200.00 for the amp, and you end up paying 800.00 different plus tax... great deal for the store... i know i know, you don't have to deal there sell private then go in and haggle on the new guitar.. i get it, but still seems very one sided..Rick


----------



## Davestp1

I guess it comes down to this: L&M are in business to make money on each and every deal, no matter how big or how small. I can't say as I blame them. 

You must have seen the "reality" TV show PawnStars. The owner Rick, no matter how much he likes an item or wants it for his store, won't buy an item unless it will "make him money." No deal, big or small is done unless he believes the store can sell it for more than he paid for it. In some cases, a lot more. He says if they don't do it this way, they won't be in business for long. Economics 101 in action.

L&M are no different. They are not a charity but a business. They offered you what you consider a low amount (and you may be right) but like all of us, you are free to take your business elsewhere. 

FWIW, I am not defending L&M but merely stating the obvious (to me anyway) I have only bought a couple of pots from L&M for a strat build I did a couple of years ago. New equipment does not interest me in the least so I only ever go to L&M for something to do on Saturdays.


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## GuitarsCanada

Davestp1 said:


> I guess it comes down to this: L&M are in business to make money on each and every deal, no matter how big or how small. I can't say as I blame them.
> 
> You must have seen the "reality" TV show PawnStars. The owner Rick, no matter how much he likes an item or wants it for his store, won't buy an item unless it will "make him money." No deal, big or small is done unless they believe they can sell it for more than they pay for it. In some cases, a lot more. If they don't, they won't be in business for long. Economics 101 in action.


This is the cornerstone of business. If you are not doing it then close up the shop


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## hummingway

Rick31797 said:


> The stores seem to forget or don't care that when you trade in your amp or guitar and they lowball you , that the guitar or amp that you want to trade for. your paying the full price for it..no discount no sale.. so i find this deal totally one sided.. for an eg it may go like this ...... the guitar that your trading for had a price of 1,000.00 and they probably paid 300.00 for it... they give you 200.00 for the amp, and you end up paying 800.00 different plus tax... great deal for the store... i know i know, you don't have to deal there sell private then go in and haggle on the new guitar.. i get it, but still seems very one sided..Rick


There's no way there mark up is even close to that, the business is too competitive. All you have to do to compare is look at some of the American online stores that operate at a very thin margin. L&M's price will have the shipping factored in as well but they won't stay in business without keeping their margins skinny.


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## torndownunit

deadear said:


> Ya I got a surprise when I offered a Peavy classic 50 black as a trade towards a guitar which has sat on their wall for at least a year. Dead mint shape and black which retailed around a grand 7 years ago. I paid $700 at l&M and they were willing to give me $200 value. Manager claimed that is what they sell for on line.
> Who in their right mind buys a amp online the shipping on a 80 pound amp is over $200 bucks plus all the pounding it will get. They can eat that guitar


I have bought 3 amps online. Many people do. It's not uncommon at all. Why do you think L&M jumped on the online retail situation? All the major stores in the States do it. So the online prices are completely valid.


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## parkhead

Pawnstars is great... its much easier to see how the used gear business works when its not some cool guitar or amp we are attached to ...

FWIW years ago when I was buying and selling huge amount of gear I always shopped at retail stores for used, since even after paying the tax used store prices were better than private sale prices ... and the store less of a hassel to deal with. 

I never traded stuff in since I always found the patience to sell my own stuff quickly at a realistic price. 

One of the reason real estate Agents are needed to buy and sell homes is to isolate the negotiation from peoples emotions,
most sellers without guidence are grossly overpriced and easily offended... Buyers would grind endlessly for a better price 
without the agent system most transactions would fall apart like an ugly divorce 

The same emotional thing happens with our gear ... 

With Trade- ins NEVER forget 

you are showing up at the store short the cash to make your purchase ... 
the store is only interested in your trade as an item they can TURN OVER to make up the cash you did not bring to the deal 
They will always price your item to turn it over quickly... period 

Yes you can do better in many cases selling privately but you have to bring realism, sales skills and patience to the process 

p


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## Rick31797

Why dont stores give you a decent trade in value on a not desired item and then put it up for rental, one way of getting back there money on items that would be hard too sell.


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## Electraglide

Well, to the store a decent trade in value on a not desired item is the lowest price they want and have to pay. Remember, what they're giving you on your item that will probably sit around for a while is coming off the price of what they're selling you. Money out of their pocket. As far as rental goes, rented items have to be gone over and any damage has to be repaired which is money out of the stores pocket and the older a rental item is, the less it's value is. Which is money out of the stores pocket. And renting an item out is a lousy way to get your money back on luxury items. Among other things, it's too slow. I'm not too sure what L&M's rental policy is but I bet it's either on new items and the rental price comes off the price if you buy it or for students over the period of their lessons and any repairs are added to that rental price. Bottom line, the store wants items they think they can sell quickly, paying the lowest price they can and getting the highest price they can. Oh, IMO a decent trade in price on a not desired item is $0.00. If it's not desired, it won't sell. If it doesn't sell, the store looses money. Not good business.


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## Rick31797

> IMO a decent trade in price on a not desired item is $0.00. If it's not desired, it won't sell. If it doesn't sell, the store looses money. Not good business.


You are a retailer best friend..lol


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## parkhead

Rick31797 said:


> Why dont stores give you a decent trade in value on a not desired item and then put it up for rental, one way of getting back there money on items that would be hard too sell.


a less desirable item is even less desirable as a rental ...


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## Rick31797

> a less desirable item is even less desirable as a rental ...


with rental and no commitment i don't see how that is even possible, everybody desires are different,


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## parkhead

Imagine your boss came to you and said 

I can't meet the payroll, will you take company product instead ? of your pay ....

imagine the thought process you'd go through 

How desirable is the company product ?
How much should I mark it down to sell it off ?
If the company can't sell it why do they think I can ?
How long do I have to offer it for sale before I get paid? 

to sum up you'd only consider the "deal" if you knew you could price the "product" as a bargain to recover your cash quickly ...

Like it or not ... this is the scenario


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## Rick31797

Its a scenario that a large company would never do....that's way out there, there are so many other options if a company is having trouble meeting the payroll, and employee's in a retail business would see the changes happening...if they had there eyes open..they would see a decline in Purchasing , along with alot of company frills that are no longer there...i have been there, as far as a company giving out a company product instead of paying you..that would never happen, they would just lay you off...

How desirable is the company product ? It may not be that the product is not selling because people don't want it, there are many factors.

If you watch a few ebay auctions for the exact same item.. you will see one auction has 21 bids, and the next one for the same product has 3 bids within a few days apart.. was the it really desired on one day but not so much on the next.

I have seen bids go higher in a item, and see the very same item BUY IT NOW cheaper.... like i said there are many Factors why a produce sells or doesn't sell.


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## sulphur

It's like trading in a vehicle.
They want to give you wholesale price for what you are trading and retail price for what you are buying.

You're better off trying to sell it yourself and walking in with cash.
If the item you are trying to sell is overpriced, or less than desirable on the market,
it's going to take a while to sell it.

So that's your decision. Take the time to try and sell it yourself, or take the hit and leave it up to the retailer.
Almost works out to 6 of one and a half a dozen of another when you figure in your time and hassle.


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## Gene Machine

*enough already*



Rick31797 said:


> Of course i have the option to sell elsewhere,
> 
> i just cannot figure out why there is such a huge gap from new to what they offer me.. new head 1299.00 ..offer on used 300.00 , it would have been interesting if i had traded it,what they would price they would have for it on the floor, i have a feeling that it would be more then 500.00 as what they told me they would sell it for.


because no one wants a 350Watt amp with solid state power section. If someone did, they would be buying your amp. Do youknow want people want? Mint blackface fenders, JCM800s, Marshal Silver Jubilees, etc. People pay big bucks for those because they want them.

this has been stated about 50 times. Supply/demand, what the market will bear, etc. They have a business for a reason: they know it well. If you think you can get $900 for your gear, great. But don't fault L&M because they know they can't.

If you don't want to sell it for $300, $500 whatever. Don't. Put your $900 sticker on it on the front lawn and be done with it.


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## Rick31797

> 350Watt amp with solid state power section


There are tubes in this amp..



> Put your $900 sticker on it on the front lawn and be done with it.


A rude and uncalled for statement

The whole post never did answer why L & M are asking such a high price for new, and offer very little on mine.If nobody wants a used one then nobody wants a new one either, they should have a sale sticker for 500.00 not 1299.99

By the way when fender blackface came out, there was not much of a demand for them, for many many years ..............now that they are over 40 yrs old, of course they are in demand... if my amp was 40 years old i would have people fighting over it... you need to compare apples to apples ......The Blackface amp in those days was not very reliable, many people where so sick of tube amps and when solid state amps came out the tube amps took a back seat.

And now people think these old amps are the greatest amps going, just because they are old.


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## Bevo

As said its supply and demand, if no one wants it they won't want to buy it from you. These guys are big and have a massive amount of data that no one can touch. What this means is whatever you wan't to sell they already have probably sold it more than once, they also know how much it was purchased for, sold for and how long it was in the store.
Factor in salary, rent, stock and all the other overhead that goes along you will get a price per square foot number. That floor space your whatever is taking up needs to generate that much money to be worth it. The longer it stays the more profit will need to be made.

That is Property Managment 101, this is how we look at the value of a business to see if it was worth purchasing, simple P&L profit&loss.

You can also think of it as your room full of gear, if your trying to blow out all your gear and no one wants it what do you do?
Lower the price and hope it moves, and then do it again to the point where either you put it in storage or give it away. It will come to a point where the gear is taking up more room than its worth.
At that point look at what you paid for it and what you sold it for, that is your P&L.

Bottom line, selling used is always your best bet.


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## Davestp1

_By the way when fender blackface came out, there was not much of a demand for them, for many many years ..............now that they are over 40 yrs old, of course they are in demand... if my amp was 40 years old i would have people fighting over it... you need to compare apples to apples ......The Blackface amp in those days was not very reliable, many people where so sick of tube amps and when solid state amps came out the tube amps took a back seat.
And now people think these old amps are the greatest amps going, just because they are old.[/QUOTE_]

I disagree 100 percent with this statement. When the BF amps came out, _they were in demand_. I don't know where the statement came from that they were not in demand for many many years. There was little else to compete with them other than gibson amps and a few other small players in North America. Fender amps were marketed to pros and garage players alike. Vox and Marshall were just not common in 1964/65 over here. The BF amps are in demand now because they are well made and just as importantly, sound good. An almost 50 year old amp that is still as reliable as the day it left the factory. These amps are built like a tank and many have most of their original parts in them still. The solid state amps that came out in the 60's and 70's were marketed as new exciting technology but for the most part sucked for rock music and people figured that out pretty quick. They went back to the Fender BF and silverface tube amps they already had. 

There is a reason that BF amps sell for the prices they do. It is because they are well made, reliable, sound good and just as importantly _people want them_. Another example of economics 101.


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## Rick31797

I dont know how old you are but i remember in around 1970, walking into music stores , and seeing several fender BF trade Ins... They may have been in demand when new but just like today, people buy new and then they trade them for something different, My brother being older then me, said he had a few and, you could not depend on them.. that's why people where trading them in.. Now 40 years later they are suddenly much better..lol

There are soild state amps out there that can Rock, pretty hard, i got a 1977 Yamaha, that actually sounds better then my fender deville,,


----------



## Davestp1

Rick31797 said:


> I dont know how old you are but i remember in around 1970, walking into music stores , and seeing several fender BF trade Ins... They may have been in demand when new but just like today, people buy new and then they trade them for something different, My brother being older then me, said he had a few and, you could not depend on them.. that's why people where trading them in.. Now 40 years later they are suddenly much better..lol
> There are soild state amps out there that can Rock, pretty hard, i got a 1977 Yamaha, that actually sounds better then my fender deville,,


I'm in my mid 50's. People traded in their BF amps for the newest silverface cosmetics, which turned out for the most part to be a step down from the BF's due to cost cutting by CBS/Fender. Newer is not always better. Maybe it turned out that you could not depend on the silverface ones. My experience is different. I have a 62 tremolux (I've had it for over 30 years) a 66 vibrolux and a 69 champ. Never had any problems with any of them. The tremolux and vibrolux have had the caps changed in the last 5 years but that is a maintenance item. Other than that, all 3 are 100 percent original. I certainly can depend on them. I'm not surprised about the fender deville though. I see dozens of them for sale all the time. But then again, the deville is not a BF which were basically hand made.


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## Gene Machine

Rick31797 said:


> There are tubes in this amp..
> 
> A rude and uncalled for statement
> 
> The whole post never did answer why L & M are asking such a high price for new, and offer very little on mine.If nobody wants a used one then nobody wants a new one either, they should have a sale sticker for 500.00 not 1299.99
> 
> By the way when fender blackface came out, there was not much of a demand for them, for many many years ..............now that they are over 40 yrs old, of course they are in demand... if my amp was 40 years old i would have people fighting over it... you need to compare apples to apples ......The Blackface amp in those days was not very reliable, many people where so sick of tube amps and when solid state amps came out the tube amps took a back seat.
> 
> And now people think these old amps are the greatest amps going, just because they are old.


yes there are tubes...in the PRE-AMP section. As I said, this has a solid state power section. Not typically desired by most guitarist. 

My comment was not rude and un-called for. It is the truth. You asked a question, to which you have ignored countless responses. The truth is most people don't want your amp. Marshall had their own MSRP, but the fact they are discontinued should be an indication that not enough people wanted to pay that price, and people are not willing to pay what you want to get for it used. People will likely pay $500, which is why L&M offered you $300.

If you don't like the answers, don't ask the question. Your amp is not worth $900 used.


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## torndownunit

Rick31797 said:


> There are tubes in this amp..
> 
> 
> 
> A rude and uncalled for statement
> 
> The whole post never did answer why L & M are asking such a high price for new, and offer very little on mine.If nobody wants a used one then nobody wants a new one either, they should have a sale sticker for 500.00 not 1299.99
> 
> By the way when fender blackface came out, there was not much of a demand for them, for many many years ..............now that they are over 40 yrs old, of course they are in demand... if my amp was 40 years old i would have people fighting over it... you need to compare apples to apples ......The Blackface amp in those days was not very reliable, many people where so sick of tube amps and when solid state amps came out the tube amps took a back seat.
> 
> And now people think these old amps are the greatest amps going, just because they are old.


I know you find his post rude, but while it's blunt it is correct. Why exactly do you think the resale values you see online are so low for this amp? They simply are not in demand. And there is a very slim chance they ever will be. Comparing that amp to any vintage or all tube modern amp is not a valid comparison. People have danced around that subject in this thread to be polite, but it's getting to the point where it really needs to be said because you just refuse to understand what anyone is saying.


----------



## Rick31797

> Why exactly do you think the resale values you see online are so low for this amp


 I will say it again LONG & McQUADE told me i should get 500.00 for the head, street price and that's good enough for me, so most of you being L&M fans it should also be good for you as well.


There is alot of gear not in demand out there, including this amp, and that's fine, i can play the waiting game or wait for a decent trade.
There are also alot of amps and guitars that have been discontinue for many years, and where not in demand. at the time but now are bringing a good dollar


.[QUOTEI know you find his post rude, but while it's blunt it is correct.][/QUOTE]

Telling somebody they can set there gear out on the front yard and be done with it, is rude and not called for.People should think before they type insulting remarks.. and its not correct statement , its just plain rude, Just because you don't care for the MF350 Marshall head doesn't give you the right to pick it apart ....I know enough not too pick at someones gear ,you should too.


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## hardasmum

Rick31797 said:


> There are also alot of amps and guitars that have been discontinue for many years, and where not in demand. at the time but now are bringing a good dollar


----------



## shoretyus

hardasmum said:


>


Drop a 350 in that .. zoom zoom


----------



## Gene Machine

an 8-cylinder BBQ?


----------



## Gene Machine

alright then ,I'll play...

"You have the best amp ever. People should be happy to pay $2000 for that. Long and McQuade are foolish to let you walk out of the store."

Happy now?

By the way, check my posts. I never said anything derogatory about your amp. I stated technical facts and said that most people don't want to buy it, which is my opinion but nothing bad about the amp. I also think that the Traynor YGM-3 reissue is a great amp, but also recognize that its resale value is very low and most people won't pay near the new cost for it since old ones go for about $450. I still love the amp, bought one new, and it was worth it FOR ME. But I don't expect L&MQ to give me $800 for it.


----------



## chimo

OK. 

In the 13 pages there does not seem to be a concise answer. My name is Andrew and I work at L&M Charlottetown. I have various responsibilities, but some of them are as follows: Guitar Manager, Guitar Tech, Floor Supervisor. I buy and trade guitars for the store on a daily basis and do a fair amount of trading selling of my own equipment as well. 

At this point, what do you want to know? I will try and answer anything you ask based on the policies of Long and Mcquade.


----------



## jimihendrix

Why are customers asked where the gear was purchased...???...

Why are customers offered lower trade-in values if the gear was not purchased from L&M...???...

Doesn't all the gear come from the same L&M owned distributor...???...In other words...L&M sells gear to other music stores and makes money on the front end...


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## Rick31797

> You have the best amp ever. People should be happy to pay $2000 for that. Long and McQuade are foolish to let you walk out of the store."


your just being silly , i have said none of that..


Now read Chimo's post and he will teach you how too be considerate and respectful.


----------



## Roryfan

Davestp1 said:


> Rick31797 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I dont know how old you are but i remember in around 1970, walking into music stores , and seeing several fender BF trade Ins... They may have been in demand when new but just like today, people buy new and then they trade them for something different, My brother being older then me, said he had a few and, you could not depend on them.. that's why people where trading them in.. Now 40 years later they are suddenly much better..lol
> There are soild state amps out there that can Rock, pretty hard, i got a 1977 Yamaha, that actually sounds better then my fender deville,,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in my mid 50's. People traded in their BF amps for the newest silverface cosmetics, which turned out for the most part to be a step down from the BF's due to cost cutting by CBS/Fender. Newer is not always better. Maybe it turned out that you could not depend on the silverface ones. My experience is different. I have a 62 tremolux (I've had it for over 30 years) a 66 vibrolux and a 69 champ. Never had any problems with any of them. The tremolux and vibrolux have had the caps changed in the last 5 years but that is a maintenance item. Other than that, all 3 are 100 percent original. I certainly can depend on them. I'm not surprised about the fender deville though. I see dozens of them for sale all the time. But then again, the deville is not a BF which were basically hand made.
Click to expand...

The most reliable amps I've ever owned are vintage Fenders (tweed Champ, brown Princeton & BF Vibrolux). I just changed a cap on the Champ, first thing that was touched on it in 51 yrs. With the exception of tubes the other 2 are the same as when they left the factory & sound like god. 

On the other hand a Mesa LSS, modern Fender CVR & HW 18W Marshall RI all crapped out on me within 2 yrs of use at home & the odd jam session. 

Tone, reliability & tone are the 3 reasons why I prefer vintage amps. Have a feeling that I'm not alone.


----------



## Rick31797

*amp*



> In the 13 pages there does not seem to be a concise answer. My name is Andrew and I work at L&M Charlottetown. I have various responsibilities, but some of them are as follows: Guitar Manager, Guitar Tech, Floor Supervisor. I buy and trade guitars for the store on a daily basis and do a fair amount of trading selling of my own equipment as well.
> 
> At this point, what do you want to know? I will try and answer anything you ask based on the policies of Long and Mcquade.


Chimo the question originally was why does L&M offer such a low trade in Value and that question has been more then answer, on the first page.
after that its just been more of a gear bashing,then anything, i have heard over and over again how bad this amp really is..I belong to a few forums and never had so much disrespect, for a person property.

Chimo L&M in Toronto offered me 300.00 for the Marshall head, and i know they need to make money, and told me i would do better selling it private which i also realize, but was thinking if i did a trade for another amp i would do better, but that didnt happen.

The only thing that makes me wonder is why are they trying to sell a brand new head like mine for 1299.00., and if they had mine they said it would be listed for 500.00, The numbers seem to far apart..They told me i could get 500.00 private sale so i am thinking they would list it in the store higher..then what they said.

The numbers for this amp is all over the place.. I see a used private sale head and cabt for 900.00 i see a used head for 500.00 and i see a used ( In Store ) head and cabt for 1600.00 and 1800.00.
I dont think 500.00 for the head is unreasonable and 400.00 for the cabinet.


----------



## torndownunit

Rick31797 said:


> Chimo the question originally was why does L&M offer such a low trade in Value and that question has been more then answer, on the first page.
> after that its just been more of a gear bashing,then anything, i have heard over and over again how bad this amp really is..I belong to a few forums and never had so much disrespect, for a person property.
> 
> Chimo L&M in Toronto offered me 300.00 for the Marshall head, and i know they need to make money, and told me i would do better selling it private which i also realize, but was thinking if i did a trade for another amp i would do better, but that didnt happen.
> 
> The only thing that makes me wonder is why are they trying to sell a brand new head like mine for 1299.00., and if they had mine they said it would be listed for 500.00, The numbers seem to far apart..They told me i could get 500.00 private sale so i am thinking they would list it in the store higher..then what they said.
> 
> The numbers for this amp is all over the place.. I see a used private sale head and cabt for 900.00 i see a used head for 500.00 and i see a used ( In Store ) head and cabt for 1600.00 and 1800.00.
> I dont think 500.00 for the head is unreasonable and 400.00 for the cabinet.


You are just making stuff up at this point to suit your side of the discussion. Saying an amp has low resale value does not mean it's a horrible amp. People simply stated the facts regarding the resale value of your amp. Your amp falls in with the modelling amps the many many other cheap amps out there mixing solid state with tube preamps. They are so many choices out there for these kinds of amps. And the technology is constantly being updated, so the old models are discontinued quickly. The technology is dated as soon as the next model comes out, so the resale value drops like a rock. And anyone who is into this kind of technology does not want the older version. 

People have told you a dozen times in this thread, if you think it's worth $1500 used, then just go and list if for that! No one here cares what you list it for, they simply are answering your question about trade value and telling you the relationship with market value. You can list it on this forum if you want for that much. No one will say a thing, in fact it's forum policy not to. You are only getting these replies because you started a thread about this topic!

You clearly just want to be the victim in this thread. People have gone out of their way to explain this to you in every possible way. No one is being rude to you. You just keep coming back to the exact same question again. So someone eventually chose to explain it a little more bluntly. To say they were insulting to you or your gear is just ridiculous though. 

How about you go start this same thread on a forum like the Gear Page and see how like the results? If you think people on this forum have been rude, they will put you in tears over there for a thread like this.

In your mind, what do you want out of this thread? What is a satisfactory conclusion/answer for you?


----------



## Rick31797

That post you put in Quotations was directed toward Chimo only and nobody else..you should have let him answer it, but since you decided to take it over...

You also make things up, i never said anything about my amp being worth 1500.00 used.. i said TO ME its worth 900.00. head and cabt.. why can you not read what i write.. as far as rude goes if i told you to take your gear and stick it out on your front yard and put a sign on it. i suppose that is a compliment..to you..

I have said several times the question was answered along time ago, but again there are some that just need to keep saying how undesired this amp is, the same old song and dance.
This amp does not fall into a category of a modeling amp, and it was not a cheap amp...just another degrading comment. 
if you took the time to actually read my last post directed to CHIMO , you would know what i want..and i bet he can answer without a the sarcasum...

the gear page...its has a reputation as being a forum full of A-holes..i hear it from people on other forums.. so it must be true.. Hasnt anybody ever heard, treat people the way you want to be treated..... if i do post my amp in the forsale section, it a place that you can ask what you want, describe the item your selling and everybody is respectful and will not and can not type anything negative... but its too bad that the forsale section is the only safe haven for people that have gear that others think is below there standards.


----------



## Guitar101

After reading 130 posts pointing out the pro's and con's of this amp. I've come to the conclusion that they look pretty good and I wouldn't mind owning one. Would you take $300 for it......_(sorry, I couldn't resist)_


----------



## sulphur




----------



## Rick31797

> After reading 130 posts pointing out the pro's and con's of this amp. I've come to the conclusion that they look pretty good and I wouldn't mind owning one. Would you take $300 for it.


i know you are trying to be funny....but if you read the posts you would not ask.. 300.00 will get you 3 - G12-100 speakers


----------



## hardasmum

sulphur said:


>


+1


----------



## Guitar101

Rick31797 said:


> i know you are trying to be funny....but if you read the posts you would not ask.. 300.00 will get you 3 - G12-100 speakers


Your right. I was trying to be funny. I wouldn't know what to do with an amp that big. I have a 5 watt Valve Jr that pretty well does it for me.


----------



## Rick31797




----------



## torndownunit

Rick31797 said:


> That post you put in Quotations was directed toward Chimo only and nobody else..you should have let him answer it, but since you decided to take it over...
> 
> You also make things up, i never said anything about my amp being worth 1500.00 used.. i said TO ME its worth 900.00. head and cabt.. why can you not read what i write.. as far as rude goes if i told you to take your gear and stick it out on your front yard and put a sign on it. i suppose that is a compliment..to you..
> 
> I have said several times the question was answered along time ago, but again there are some that just need to keep saying how undesired this amp is, the same old song and dance.
> This amp does not fall into a category of a modeling amp, and it was not a cheap amp...just another degrading comment.
> if you took the time to actually read my last post directed to CHIMO , you would know what i want..and i bet he can answer without a the sarcasum...
> 
> the gear page...its has a reputation as being a forum full of A-holes..i hear it from people on other forums.. so it must be true.. Hasnt anybody ever heard, treat people the way you want to be treated..... if i do post my amp in the forsale section, it a place that you can ask what you want, describe the item your selling and everybody is respectful and will not and can not type anything negative... but its too bad that the forsale section is the only safe haven for people that have gear that others think is below there standards.


Ok, my last reply because this is ridiculous. RE my $1500 comment. From your post:



> The numbers for this amp is all over the place.. I see a used private sale head and cabt for 900.00 i see a used head for 500.00 and i see a used ( In Store ) head and cabt for 1600.00 and 1800.00.
> I dont think 500.00 for the head is unreasonable and 400.00 for the cabinet.


That is what I was referring to when I said try listing it for the price that store is listing it for and see what happens. That wasn't an insult, I literally meant if you think there is any chance of getting what they are asking, just try listing it at that price and see what happens. If it doesn't sell, keep lowering the price or wait for offers.

The only reason people went into more details regarding the market for your specific amp is because you keep coming back to the exact same question regarding L&M and what they are offering trade value wise. Practically every long time member on the forum has taken the time to post a detailed reply, and every reply has pretty much stated the same thing. The posts were not rude, they simply answered your question. People started to get frustrated when after all of that, you kept posting the same question taking the thread right back to square one. And the replies got more blunt becuase of that. Again, not rude, just blunt. Most people have given up, others like me keep getting sucked back in. I like threads on these topics to be archived for future forum users when doing searches. I think it makes for a good forum. So I stupidly hope to see some sort of resolution in this thread and that is not going to happen.

At this point I can only assume that this thread is still going to troll people because it's ridiculous. To say anyone has been rude to you with the amount of time people have spent trying to explain this to you is ridiculous. This thread would have turned hostile on ANY other forum I use. The Guitars Canada forum users are not the problem here. They have gone above and beyond to be helpful here.

I really wish they would just lock this thread because there is no answer on earth that is going to satisfy you. Go back and find a single post where anyone said your amp was "below their standard" or that is was a bad amp in any way. All people stated are the facts about it. You are way way too sensitive about this amp is the real bottom line.


----------



## greco

I am waiting for the movie version of this thread to come out...too much information for me to read and retain.

Cheers

Dave


----------



## hollowbody

I haven't paid too much attention to this thread since I posted way back on page one, but it seems to have gotten hilarious. I think the real problem is this...



Rick31797 said:


> you people find it easy to devalue my amp head , but the truth is everybody has a bottom line.. you have too respect my bottom line and its not 300.00 from L and M or private....i dont care what Ebay says or Kijiji...if i dont get my botton line , it simple i keep it..


If you have a figure in mind to sell it at, just post it on CL, Kijiji and eBay and keep renewing the ads til someone pays your bottom line. If a year goes by and no one has, then maybe you should reconsider your line of thinking. Stop thinking what your amp is worth to YOU, but rather what it is worth to OTHERS. The value of something to YOU only matters if you're not selling, or if you want to get an insurance quote or something. What it's worth to YOU doesn't mean anything at all to anyone who is potentially going to buy your amp.


----------



## jimihendrix

The Cliff notes are available...


----------



## GuitarsCanada

I dont know a lot about this particular amp/model but I do agree with a few comments up there that certain amps just dont hold a value. Perfect example is an amp series that I personally think are fantastic. Johnson modeling amp. I have two of them and they are great amps, best IMO of the modeling amps that have been put out. They were only made for a short period of time, not huge numbers of them out there so somewhat rare, not super rare. They sold for over $1000 new but if you come across one now they can be had for under $400 and in some circumstances for $250 or $300. A fabulous value in my mind. Why? I have no idea. They are built like tanks with top quality components. Versatile and very functional.


----------



## chimo

jimihendrix said:


> Why are customers asked where the gear was purchased...???...
> 
> Why are customers offered lower trade-in values if the gear was not purchased from L&M...???...
> 
> Doesn't all the gear come from the same L&M owned distributor...???...In other words...L&M sells gear to other music stores and makes money on the front end...


There are a few reasons why customers are asked where they bought it. Anything with a serial is stored in our POS database. Any purchase can be referenced by serial, model, date, name or phone number (provided it's current). Sourcing where the instrument came from, particularly if it came from L&M, gives more information to the instrument. It also works as a security feature, stolen items are logged a particular way - if one pops up we can back track it. People often have a tendency to exagerate the cost of an item when trading in. It's nice to be on the same page. 

Trade-in-values for instruments bought from us generally tend to be a bit better because we want the person's continued business. We want to keep the business. One thing overlooked often is that often we take trade-ins as a favor to the customer. It's a service thing. We don't take all trade-ins, we generally look for items that will be quite attractive, that will move quickly. We would much rather sell you a new product that we stand behind than a used example from our competitors. Also consider that often if it's a product not bought from L&M, it's not a product we sell or have warranty support behind it. 

Long and McQuade owns Yorkville sound. Yorkville is a manufacturing and distribution company. L&M stocks a significant amount of Yorkville product but those lines are limited to the following : Traynor, Apex, ART, VTC Audio, Gibson, Epiphone, Gallien Kruger, Crossrock, Hugues and Kettner, BeyerDynamic, Rotosound, Visual Sound, Line6 Wireless, Maypex and LR Baggs. We certainly stock many other brands, but if you buy a Fender from Steve's, it didn't have anything to do with Yorkville or Long and McQuade.



Rick31797 said:


> Chimo the question originally was why does L&M offer such a low trade in Value and that question has been more then answer, on the first page.
> after that its just been more of a gear bashing,then anything, i have heard over and over again how bad this amp really is..I belong to a few forums and never had so much disrespect, for a person property.
> 
> Chimo L&M in Toronto offered me 300.00 for the Marshall head, and i know they need to make money, and told me i would do better selling it private which i also realize, but was thinking if i did a trade for another amp i would do better, but that didnt happen.
> 
> The only thing that makes me wonder is why are they trying to sell a brand new head like mine for 1299.00., and if they had mine they said it would be listed for 500.00, The numbers seem to far apart..They told me i could get 500.00 private sale so i am thinking they would list it in the store higher..then what they said.
> 
> The numbers for this amp is all over the place.. I see a used private sale head and cabt for 900.00 i see a used head for 500.00 and i see a used ( In Store ) head and cabt for 1600.00 and 1800.00.
> I dont think 500.00 for the head is unreasonable and 400.00 for the cabinet.


You might have been misinformed. If you were offered $300 on your amp to sell to L&M, on a trade you would have gotten the tax credit as well. Say you saw a Blues Jr. for $500 that you wanted to trade the Marshall for. With tax, $575 out the door. When you trade, the formula is [(new item)-(trade in)][tax]= [difference]. so [(500)-(300)][1.15]= [200][1.15]= 230. If the 300 just came off the top, the difference would be $275. 

Now the other issue is the original price of the Marshall. Most items in the store have a standard markup. The cost of the new item in this case is defined by Marshall, the price to the costumer is cost multiplied by markup. The amp is that expensive because Marshall sold it to us at the cost that would dictate that amount of money. A business cannot function if we simply deem our products to be too expensive and cut the prices for instance below cost. Used examples are bought/traded for/acquired for the store based on how they will move. If a product is not moving it has to be priced in a way that the store will be able to move it. The general rule of thumb is that we want it gone in 30 days or less. The number generated by the employee can be based on a multitude of factors, not limited to the amount of the item on the floor, selling for prices of other media (ebay etc.) and on our own database as well. Every example of that amp whether it be new or used that has sold through the store, we have record. Selling-for prices are calucuated from a variety of sources. If across the country we see that this amp has sold recently 450-550 in many locations for example, we aren't going to list it at $800. 

Private listing are great, you can ask whatever you'd like for the amp, but there's no number to say what you actually sold the amp for (other than ebay, and what we've sold for - info in our database). Prices on Kijiji or similar are great to price an item but a bad indicator or actual selling price. 

If you see a used example that is generally close to the cost of new, it's likely that it was bought under financing and returned early in the contract. For instance if an amp sells for $2000 on a 12 month plan, and customer returns it after 2 months, he can - but he is subject to restocking fees. Two months of restocking fees is 15% provided it's mint. In this case it's $300, so when we sell the amp it's $2000-$300=$1700. It's a used amp and you can look at it like someone paid $300 to help you buy the amp.


----------



## Rick31797

It is hilarious, because i have said many many times, the Post question was answered, and of course there are a few that, just need to throw out ridiculous. comments.
the only question i have now is what i want Chimo to answer, ( nobody else needs to reply ) Chimo works for L & M and seems to know how to answer a question without being rude, or is it blunt...just a play of words...
I suggest you can unsubscribe to this thread,rather then trying to have it locked...


----------



## Electraglide

Yo Rick31797. This is an open discussion on an open forum. Being as such people will answer as they will. To me, if you want a private answer from a certain member, private message him. Then we won't have to try and figure out what you want Chimo to answer that he already hasn't. And as far as being rude etc., to me, most what has been said to you and about your amp is not rude tho some are blunt.


----------



## Rick31797

True its open to anybody that wants to comment, but people that are making comments about it being a ridiculous thread.. SOOOOO Unsubscribe if you dont like it...
It like people that complain about a TV show .. u know what to do, turn the channel ...lol


----------



## Rick31797

*amp*

This is no modeling amp..lol


[video=youtube_share;HnJx5w3WSn0]http://youtu.be/HnJx5w3WSn0[/video]


----------



## hollowbody

Rick31797 said:


> This is no modeling amp..lol
> 
> 
> [video=youtube_share;HnJx5w3WSn0]http://youtu.be/HnJx5w3WSn0[/video]


Yes, we know. Why does it just sound like you're trying to generate interest in the amp?


----------



## Rick31797

> Yes, we know. Why does it just sound like you're trying to generate interest in the amp?


 
That is not my intention,but now that you mention it, would it be against forum rules.. It seems " MOST " everything i type, i end up getting a negative comment.

Why not just type, something like that's a good video, but it's not an amp i would want.


----------



## zontar

chimo said:


> There are a few reasons why customers are asked where they bought it. Anything with a serial is stored in our POS database. Any purchase can be referenced by serial, model, date, name or phone number (provided it's current). Sourcing where the instrument came from, particularly if it came from L&M, gives more information to the instrument.


So could they tell me the exact date I bought my S&P 12 string from them, many years ago?


----------



## chimo

zontar said:


> So could they tell me the exact date I bought my S&P 12 string from them, many years ago?


So long as you bought it when the POS was in place, yes.


----------



## Spellcaster

I assume chimo's use of the term POS refers to Point Of Sale. I've often seen it used in a different context, so it had me scratching my head for a few minutes, lol.


----------



## TheYanChamp

Spellcaster, I was scratching my head the first time I read that too lol.


But to the OP, don't be so damn sensitive and ignorant to how the retail industry works. This thread should be locked, all the questions have been answered but he still doesn't get it.

Maybe if you didn't buy flavor of the week amps like that marshall, or that H&K you bought, this wouldn't have happened. Buy a JCM800, a 5150, a ac30, blues deluxe, bassman, recto etc. and buy it used if you are concerned about your resale value. You will never lose a penny, and if you're smart and not GASing all the time, you'll probably come out ahead. Try reselling that H&K, I've seen half a dozen on craigs the past six months and they've only been out a year or two. A store proabably wouldn't touch a used one if they can profit from selling one new to someone that wants that currently well marketed amplifier.

The retailers (not just music) have a hard enough time competing with ebay and craigslist for used gear. They are competitors with ZERO overhead! Why would they give their GASing, youtube jerking, flavor of the week customers the option to buy the $600 used amp (that they already paid 300 for) instead of the same $1300 new amp in the other room when they're already sold on it??? Makes no sense to me, why make a 300 dollar profit on your junk, when the next tool to want it will make them 400+ with no hassle, and not to mention clearing up floor space rather than filling it. Shops like L&M know better and are the biggest in Canada for a reason.

I bet you wonder why so many pawn shops have stacks of gear they will never sell at too high of prices? Because they made a bad purchasing decision on hyped junk and it costs them money every month when rent is due. Most of those amps are solid state/modeling flavor of the week crap that someone turned in for rent. BTW, most pawnshops have moved to ebay for their truly re-sellable gear, it never hits the showroom floor. 


Seriously though, this guy is trolling.. first knocks L&M, then vintage gear, then calls out on other posters for being RUDE? How about REALISTIC?!

Quit bitching already and put your junk on craigslist for $500, sell it if you can then come back and thank us for clearing everything up for you.


----------



## parkhead

Between Chimo and theYanChamp

that about wraps it up for this thread 

BTW the LM POS dates back to about 1992  

I know this because I'm one of those customers it takes and extra 60 seconds for the computer to pull up because AHEM a bit of a purchase history 

and do not tell my wife 



p


----------



## Rick31797

> Quit bitching already and put your junk on craigslist for $500, sell it if you can then come back and thank us for clearing everything up for you.


 
Ok you win, you get top Honours, for the most abusive post yet...please go cry some place else..You obviously don't know the meaning of Ignorant.. and people like you just can't leave the thread alone..

They should not lock the post they should lock you out of the post..for your Ignorance., or just come back when your not under the influence .....17 posts and you think your King.


----------



## hardasmum




----------



## torndownunit

Rick31797 said:


> Ok you win, you get top Honours, for the most abusive post yet...please go cry some place else..You obviously don't know the meaning of Ignorant.. and people like you just can't leave the thread alone..
> 
> They should not lock the post they should lock you out of the post..for your Ignorance., or just come back when your not under the influence .....17 posts and you think your King.


I've got another idea. Go sell your stuff and stop posting about it. It doesn't matter what anyone in this thread has told you, you just accuse them of being mean to you and repeat the same question so that the thread drags on for another 3 pages. List your item for sale here or somewhere else, ask what you want for it, and stop whining about it. This thread goes on because you keep dragging it on. If you want to end it, sell your item and stop posting about it like a normal person would.

For you to accuse anyone else of being a crybaby after the posts you have made in this thread is flat out hilarious.


----------



## parkhead

http://youtu.be/2Z4m4lnjxkY


----------



## Rick31797

Everything was ok tell VanWhimp started the bullying, and then of course you join in...and start shooting your mouth off, i am satisfied with the answers, so it would be good to lock this thread , as its gotten very childlish its all about let's gang up and bully this guy. A few need to go take some English lesson's and actually read what you write..


----------



## greco




----------



## Guitar101

parkhead said:


> http://youtu.be/2Z4m4lnjxkY


I knew I was going to regret hitting this link but I did it anyway . . . . . . . and I do regret it. This thread is making me do some weird things that I wouldn't normally do but I can't explain why. . . .


----------



## Guest

Rick31797 said:


> You obviously don't know the meaning of Ignorant..


The three levels of ignorance;

those who don't have the capacity to learn.
those who can't afford to learn.
and the most dangerous ..
those who refuse to learn.


----------



## Rick31797

> The three levels of ignorance;


What i have mostly learned from this post is Women are right, Most Men don't know how to listen and decipher the English Language...haha


----------



## Spellcaster

It's like driving by a bad accident.....You don't want to look, but you can't help yourself......


----------



## Rick31797

I have decided not to waste anymore time on this thread, i got the answers on the first page, most of the rest of the posts where verbal Garbage, with the exception of Chimo and Guitars Canada ( Thanks) Maybe you should take some lesson's from these guy's on how to write a proper post without being an A-hole, it can be done all you have to do is listen and learn. 

I have learnt alot from people just on this one post, how they can buddy up and abuse a poster, just like school kids...there are the ones that do the work and the ones that sit back and post the odd picture to keep the fire burning I am sure this has happened to other's as well. Maybe in the future i will post some more pictures of my Telecaster guitar build and you can tear that post apart like you did this one.

So the Admin, can lock the post or do what he thinks is right and i will unsubscribe...Rick


----------



## hardasmum

This was one of my favourite threads. I will be sad to see it go.


----------



## Guitar101

Rick31797 said:


> I took my MF-350 head in to L&M for trade hoping too get 500.00, they offer me 300.00 , and i said no, but that was ok, no problem, but then i go to another L&M store in Toronto and to my surprise i see a Brand new MF350 there, with a price tag of 1299.00 ..I guess maybe the low offer was because there is no demand and they just didn't want it.. maybe i answered my own question...


Rick, you really did answer your own question on your first post. Were just having a little fun at your expense. 165 posts to a thread that has been active for three weeks. That might be some kind of record. Hang in there. I'm pulling for you.


----------



## Spellcaster

I'd be thrilled if I could start a topic that ran 17 pages.

Rick, I'm sorry this has caused hard feelings. I don't have any additional comments on-topic, but I did want to say - I hope you will post pictures of your guitar build. I've been around this forum for a while and mean-spirited behaviour isn't typical....This is a pretty good bunch of guys, and I suspect you're a lot more likely to see nice things posted when you've worked hard to create a guitar that's special to you. We all know the challenges involved and can appreciate what it takes to bring one to completion.


----------



## NGroeneveld

Rick31797 said:


> That was actually the deal, trade in value on another amp, 300.00 for mine and the other amp was new at 600.00 .and then i see a brand new head like mine for 1299.00, they must know they will not get that for it, if you can get a used one for 500.00 They also said they turned down a JCM-900 trade in.


If you were trading it in for an amp that only cost 600 bucks, why they would give you more than 300 bucks is beyond me.


----------



## greco

Rick... I apologize if any of my posts offended or upset you. 
I was just trying to inject some humour into this thread and "lighten it up a bit" for everyone.

Looking forward to seeing pics of your build...I mean it...sincerely.

Cheers

Dave


----------



## keto

torndownunit said:


> You are just making stuff up at this point to suit your side of the discussion. Saying an amp has low resale value does not mean it's a horrible amp. People simply stated the facts regarding the resale value of your amp. Your amp falls in with the modelling amps the many many other cheap amps out there mixing solid state with tube preamps. They are so many choices out there for these kinds of amps. And the technology is constantly being updated, so the old models are discontinued quickly. The technology is dated as soon as the next model comes out, so the resale value drops like a rock. And anyone who is into this kind of technology does not want the older version.
> 
> People have told you a dozen times in this thread, if you think it's worth $1500 used, then just go and list if for that! No one here cares what you list it for, they simply are answering your question about trade value and telling you the relationship with market value. You can list it on this forum if you want for that much. No one will say a thing, in fact it's forum policy not to. You are only getting these replies because you started a thread about this topic!
> 
> You clearly just want to be the victim in this thread. People have gone out of their way to explain this to you in every possible way. No one is being rude to you. You just keep coming back to the exact same question again. So someone eventually chose to explain it a little more bluntly. To say they were insulting to you or your gear is just ridiculous though.
> 
> How about you go start this same thread on a forum like the Gear Page and see how like the results? If you think people on this forum have been rude, they will put you in tears over there for a thread like this.
> 
> In your mind, what do you want out of this thread? What is a satisfactory conclusion/answer for you?


Wow what a train wreck. I haven't checked in since about page 3, was worth the read! TDU sums it up nicely!


----------



## parkhead

ppppppppppppppppp


p


----------



## Spellcaster

I have a feeling that Rick has left the building.....


----------



## Gene Machine

keto said:


> Wow what a train wreck.


Now THAT is an amp with resale value!


----------



## robare99

I traded in a Yorkville PowerMax16. I bought it used from them in 03. Traded it in this year on a new mixer. A new one was $2800They figured they could sell it for $1800They offered me $1200Worked for me. I could have got more privately, but I could have sat on it for awhile as well. So the $1200 worked for me and I was out the door with my new mixer!


----------



## NGroeneveld

I wanted a Traynor YCV50 value $800 plus tax. I offered a Marshall 50MGDFX for trade, street value 175 bucks maybe. They said uh, no thanks. Hahahahahahaha!


----------



## torndownunit

keto said:


> Wow what a train wreck. I haven't checked in since about page 3, was worth the read! TDU sums it up nicely!


I am not going to say 'no hard feelings' because I know my posts are some of the ones that got the OP mad. My posts were not mean spirited though, and I don't have anything to apologize for. And one thing I will always do is stand up for this forum, and I felt all the mentions of people people being rude were unwarranted and had to reply. People only started to get more harsh after the thread went on for 16 pages. People here are incredibly helpful, and this is a great forum though. Once this thread is over, hopefully everyone will be past it (I know I am) and the OP can enjoy the forum.


----------



## washburned

I kinda got yhe feeling this was a "my minds made up don't confuse me with the facts" situation.


----------



## hollowbody

washburned said:


> I kinda got yhe feeling this was a "my minds made up don't confuse me with the facts" situation.


Yeah, same here. 

Heck, I traded in my 1971 Traynor YBA2 head on a Traynor YCS50. I was offered less than I could get on CL, but it saved me the hassle of listing it and trying to find someone to buy it off me. Now, granted, I got the head for a song (yay!), so I didn't take a bath on it, but I can understand it. As cool as I thought a 20watt tube head was, I can see lots of people who want 50/100 watt amp instead or 5 watters, or digital modelers. It's just how it works. In the end, I traded in my head, got a new amp and I'm happy as a clam (though I still GAS for a DRRI and might end up flipping my YCS50 for one).

Anywho, it's just about properly assessing your expectations and then deciding whether the end result is beneficial to you or not. If it is, then great. If it isn't, then you walk away and forget about it, not gripe endlessly.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Discussion is good, different views are good. It's all good as long as it does not get personal. The golden rule as it has been from the beginning, everyone is entitled to an opinion. You may not agree with it but they are entitled to it


----------



## sulphur

This was an entertaining and informative thread.

I just wanted to point something out from the first page, post #8...



Rick31797 said:


> I am finding most people don't want a 1/2 stack, There time has come and gone..too many small tube amps out there and too many really good PA's.. so why lug a 1/2 stack around.. the only ones that want them are heavy metal kids...and they have no money...


That's your own words. It says a lot.
Besides, a 350 watt amp is fairly impractical in a heavy metal kids bedroom.
As it started out, nobody put the amp down, just reiterated what you said yourself.
It's just not that desirable, or desirable to a very small target market.

In before the lock!:banana:


----------



## Nick Burman

Rick31797 said:


> The 300.00 was a good deal to them not me. the inconvenience was lugging the head to Toronto in the first place and expecting a decent trade value for my marshall head...


So your time isn't worth anything? Waiting around for 20 years means major depreciation. You still don't have a buyer giving you $500. Ever sold or bought real estate? Its only worth what someone will pay for it If you don't have a buyer, it's not worth $500. You have a buyer at $300 - THAT is what it's worth. You've already eaten into your profits by lugging it to Toronto. $200 at $25/hr means eight hours of driving, waiting around, having people visit your house, waiting for people to show up, etc. L&M understand business. 

Oh well.


----------



## Nick Burman

Rick31797 said:


> I have decided not to waste anymore time on this thread, i got the answers on the first page, most of the rest of the posts where verbal Garbage, with the exception of Chimo and Guitars Canada ( Thanks) Maybe you should take some lesson's from these guy's on how to write a proper post without being an A-hole, it can be done all you have to do is listen and learn.
> 
> I have learnt alot from people just on this one post, how they can buddy up and abuse a poster, just like school kids...there are the ones that do the work and the ones that sit back and post the odd picture to keep the fire burning I am sure this has happened to other's as well. Maybe in the future i will post some more pictures of my Telecaster guitar build and you can tear that post apart like you did this one.
> 
> So the Admin, can lock the post or do what he thinks is right and i will unsubscribe...Rick


Aww...... That's so sad.


----------



## NGroeneveld

sulphur said:


> This was an entertaining and informative thread.
> 
> I just wanted to point something out from the first page, post #8...
> 
> 
> That's your own words. It says a lot.
> Besides, a 350 watt amp is fairly impractical in a heavy metal kids bedroom.
> 
> 
> !


HOLY S**T 350 WATTS!!??? I'm beginning to see why nobody wants to buy this amp...


----------



## torndownunit

sulphur said:


> This was an entertaining and informative thread.
> 
> I just wanted to point something out from the first page, post #8...
> 
> 
> That's your own words. It says a lot.
> Besides, a 350 watt amp is fairly impractical in a heavy metal kids bedroom.
> As it started out, nobody put the amp down, just reiterated what you said yourself.
> It's just not that desirable, or desirable to a very small target market.
> 
> In before the lock!:banana:


Stop using common sense!


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## hollowbody

NGroeneveld said:


> HOLY S**T 350 WATTS!!??? I'm beginning to see why nobody wants to buy this amp...


In all honesty, the amp doesn't even sound all that bad, but yeah, when are you ever going to get it past 1? My 30 watt amps are plenty loud for the stage, I can even begin to imagine what I would do with a 100 watt amp, let alone 350!! Even if the 350 watt is only 6db louder than the 100 watt (give or take), that's still a baffling amount of juice for a non-bassist!


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## Rick31797

Too bring a conclusion too this thread , i posted my Marshall MF-350 and 4x12 Cabt, on Kijiji and it sold in 4 days..I was asking $950.00 and my bottom line was 900.00 and it sold for 950.00.....


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## hardasmum

Rick31797 said:


> Too bring a conclusion too this thread , i posted my Marshall MF-350 and 4x12 Cabt, on Kijiji and it sold in 4 days..I was asking $950.00 and my bottom line was 900.00 and it sold for 950.00.....


Sometimes I like Hollywood endings. Congratulations!


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## Guitar101

Rick31797 said:


> Too bring a conclusion too this thread , i posted my Marshall MF-350 and 4x12 Cabt, on Kijiji and it sold in 4 days..I was asking $950.00 and my bottom line was 900.00 and it sold for 950.00


I'm not surprised with all the free advertising we gave you with 185 posts to this forum. (LOL) Good things happen to good people.


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## mario

Rick31797 said:


> Too bring a conclusion too this thread , i posted my Marshall MF-350 and 4x12 Cabt, on Kijiji and it sold in 4 days..I was asking $950.00 and my bottom line was 900.00 and it sold for 950.00.....


Congrats to you getting your money and for starting the most dumbass thread ever on this forum. Wow......:zzz:


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## Rick31797

> Congrats to you getting your money and for starting the most dumbass thread ever on this forum. Wow..



Hey i couldn't have did it without everyones help...lol


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## Spellcaster

Well, I don't have anything snide to say, Rick. I'm happy to hear that you got the dough you were looking for out of it. And, as much as it might have stressed you out at the time, it almost seems like L&M did you a favour by low-balling you, since you did a lot better selling it privately. Congratulations!


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## starjag

My friend got a great deal at L&M yesterday trading an Ibanez! He is a nice person, so maybe that was a factor.


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## Rick31797

> My friend got a great deal at L&M yesterday trading an Ibanez! He is a nice person, so maybe that was a factor.


I was much nicer too L-M they low ball me and i turn around and spend 620.00 on a new amp, how much nicer can you get.


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## starjag

Rick31797 said:


> I was much nicer too L-M they low ball me and i turn around and spend 620.00 on a new amp, how much nicer can you get.


That is very nice indeed!


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## hardasmum

mario said:


> Rick31797 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Too bring a conclusion too this thread , i posted my Marshall MF-350 and 4x12 Cabt, on Kijiji and it sold in 4 days..I was asking $950.00 and my bottom line was 900.00 and it sold for 950.00.....
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats to you getting your money and for starting the most dumbass thread ever on this forum. Wow......:zzz:
Click to expand...

Ouch


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## hollowbody

Rick31797 said:


> Too bring a conclusion too this thread , i posted my Marshall MF-350 and 4x12 Cabt, on Kijiji and it sold in 4 days..I was asking $950.00 and my bottom line was 900.00 and it sold for 950.00.....


haha, awesome! The best part is that you knew this is what you should have done all along! If you'd only listened to yourself way back on page 1, we wouldn't be closing in on 200 posts 

glad you got the price you wanted, though!


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## Rick31797

> haha, awesome! The best part is that you knew this is what you should have done all along! If you'd only listened to yourself way back on page 1, we wouldn't be closing in on 200 posts


 
I had this amp posted on Kijiji before Christmas and got low ball offers and trades that made me laugh... i mean one guy had a Python he wanted to trade me, another guy had a set of golf clubs... 

So i thought i would try a trade in with L&M. I did not make a special trip to Toronto as one poster speculated, I had to pick my Daughter up at the airport, at 4 pm, so i took the day and visited the music stores.

I thought if i was buying a brand new amp from them, there offer would be better, then it was.. and your right this thread was all done on the first page, but i am kinda glad that it did go on, for people that didn't get too read it..

As the story unfolded the moral of this story regarding selling your gear is ,no matter what other people say, if your asking a realistic price, then don't go below your bottom line.


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## Bevo

Yesterday I traded a Takamine acoustic that I paid $450 new at L$M for a new Taylor acoustic. They gave me $350 for the guitar, I had the Tak for a year and consider that a good deal.


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## sulphur

[video=youtube;XZ5TajZYW6Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ5TajZYW6Y[/video]


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## NGroeneveld

Twenty pages Yeeha!!! It was fun while it lasted


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