# NAD `I saw the Sunn !`



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

I was offered a Sunn head for a decent price but was very hesitant about it since I don't know much about them. I contacted @Granny Gremlin to get his opinion ( he knows about them) so decided to go and get it.

The head is a Sun Sonaro and the seller told me he had a 115 cab to go with it but both have white tolex !?! Weird...

Once at the sellers place, quickly realized that this was a 1968 115 Combo that was converted to head and a cab was then made to match it. Based on that, was able the negotiate the kit for a better price! 😉

I now have the Sunn sound in the house !!! 

Here are some of my pics that I just took :



















Front grill is on backwards...



















Its a EL34 version from 1968


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

The cab is home made but nicely done. Open back so I guess built for guitar.





































Speaker seems to be the original, CTS, 2nd week of 1968


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## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

Powerful, big iron, clean, clean, clean, amps. That year likely still had Dynaco iron in them. Add a fuzz pedal at a volume of two, and feel the power.

I had a 1968 Sunn Solarus head. Somehow they suggest that two EL34 tubes net 70 watts, plus, with that iron. Some had solid state rectification for more clean, but still had an empty socket for a rectifier tube. My Solarus had a wicked tremolo effect that sounded like “We won’t get fooled again ”, by the Who.

After experiencing these amps, I really wondered what the four EL34 tube versions would do.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

A clean ultra-linear design...basically half of a Dynaco ST-70. Nice acquisition.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

So it's a combo that somebody modified into a head and cab?

I think I'd like it better this way.

Nice amp. The Sunns I tried back in the day were indeed super clean.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

I will breaking it down


Tone Chaser said:


> Powerful, big iron, clean, clean, clean, amps. That year likely still had Dynaco iron in them. Add a fuzz pedal at a volume of two, and feel the power.
> 
> I had a 1968 Sunn Solarus head. Somehow they suggest that two EL34 tubes net 70 watts, plus, with that iron. Some had solid state rectification for more clean, but still had an empty socket for a rectifier tube. My Solarus had a wicked tremolo effect that sounded like “We won’t get fooled again ”, by the Who.
> 
> After experiencing these amps, I really wondered what the four EL34 tube versions would do.



I will be breaking it down to inspect it further. When I tried it out it was clean and sounded nice. Just need to clean the pots and maybe change the input jacks since loose...

Id love to try a four EL34 version !


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Paul Running said:


> A clean ultra-linear design...basically half of a Dynaco ST-70. Nice acquisition.


I`m gonna have to look at the inside design, I did read about the Dynaco reference and how it might have Dynaco transformers inside. 

More to come later in the week.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Milkman said:


> So it's a combo that somebody modified into a head and cab?
> 
> I think I'd like it better this way.
> 
> Nice amp. The Sunns I tried back in the day were indeed super clean.


The combo was a big one so I understand why some would want to convert these. Here is the combo :




















Looks to be quite heavy for a 115 combo ... so ya, head and cab is a better option ! 

Dont know about the white tolex... might get use to it but the amp stands out and I cant tell the wife : Oh yeah, had this for a long time .... You just never noticed it !


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)




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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Frenchy99 said:


> I was offered a Sunn head for a decent price but was very hesitant about it since I don't know much about them. I contacted @Granny Gremlin to get his opinion ( he knows about them) so decided to go and get it.
> 
> The head is a Sun Sonaro and the seller told me he had a 115 cab to go with it but both have white tolex !?! Weird...
> 
> ...



One of my customer see the add, seller ask $500. Too expensive as my customer said.
Seller wrote; pots need some WD40


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Thanks for the schematic @Paul Running ! like your version better, this is the one that I found online:


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Latole said:


> One of my customer see the add, seller ask $500. Too expensive as my customer said.
> Seller wrote; pots need some WD40


Didn't pay near that !  

Would never use WD40 lol ... but the pots do need a cleaning. 

Only have a small plumbing job to do tomorrow so will break it open for the clean up and inspection afterwards. Looks to be a fairly simple design.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

I still have this Sunn 212 cab to go with it also ...


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Great score. As you've probably guessed by now that is not the original cab (combo cut in half). Not the original speaker either (though you'd sometimes see those or similar, in later era Sunns). 

I doubt this guy has the Dynaco transformers (can barely see in the pics but don't look like it to me), but the copies they switched to after the first few years were just as good just not as buzz-wordy, and it's still an untralinear design/ same as a Dynaco kit like @paulrunning mentioned (except this was a departure from that as they tried EL34s instead of 6550s like most other Sunns, and the original Dynaco amps used). That this is an EL34 model is another reason I suspect the TXes are not Dynacos. All tube era Sunns before the Model T were pretty much exactly the same amp , but for small variations like 2 vs 4 6550/KT88 power tubes (and 2 models used EL34s; neither of them a quad - those where the small/practice/student amps in the line, LOL), some had reverb and tremelo, and some had a mid or bass boost switch (depending if guitar or bass amp); the distinction between models (some were exactly the same - see the 1000s vs the 1200s, or the Sentura vs Solarus) was mostly based on the speaker cab or combo config - they never sold heads separately (until later, like the T might have been the first); if new you bought it as a complete system. Even the Model T was the same power section just a different preamp, no fx but totally different tone stack.

Calling them clean is a bit misleading; they do dirt up nice, it's just easier to keep them clean if you wanna, and the dirt comes with an extreme volume penalty - if you know the origin story that makes sense.

Lastly: for frick sakes flip that front panel around the right way before you do anything else ;P Drive a man batty with shit like that.


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## nbs2005 (Mar 21, 2018)

One Sunn and 47,000 Traynors....you Sir have quite the collection!


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Don't forget the Garnets! (and a couple Univoxes; seriously this guy has almost my exact taste in amps)


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Don't forget the Garnets! (and a couple Univoxes; seriously this guy has almost my exact taste in amps)



Great amps are great amps !!! 

Nothing wrong with wanting to try whats out there !


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

So being off today, decided to break this baby open for a clean up. It was quit dirty inside and really needed to clean the head shell since even the cats thought it smelled funky... 

So here it is after a quick clean:










Output Transformer:










Power Transformer:










The transformer is clearly identified:


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> I doubt this guy has the Dynaco transformers



I am happy to discover that this is an early enough model to clearly have both Dynaco transformers in it ! 










Wonder what this translates too ?










Dynaco even made can caps !!!  I am gonna have to find how to decode the dates on them... the info has got to be online somewhere.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Here are the gut shots ! 










Very simple design...

Pre amp.



















Just a few caps in there plus the can cap... Great and easy to do ...










A 3 prong power cord was installed and the black wire was properly installed to the fuse but the polarity switch was not disconected and the death cap is still attached... will rectify these things...


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Here it is after a full clean up.










Cleaned all the tube sockets, input jacks, re-tensioned the jacks a bit since they were still in great shape. I broke one of the EL34 tubes when I flipped the head on the side to clean the pots but since they were mismatched tubes was going to replace them anyways... just a bummer to break one...

Cleaned the head cabinet.












Granny Gremlin said:


> As you've probably guessed by now that is not the original cab (combo cut in half).


Yep ! completely new but very well made ! Still pondering if Im going to keep it white or not... If I find some Sunn Tolex ( it does appear to be some for sale at times on Ebay or Reverb) will finish the cabibet 100% by painting the inside and all to make it better. Still looks amazing as is...












Granny Gremlin said:


> Lastly: for frick sakes flip that front panel around the right way before you do anything else ;P Drive a man batty with shit like that.


LOL, you and me both !

Ta-Da...













Granny Gremlin said:


> Not the original speaker either (though you'd sometimes see those or similar, in later era Sunns).


I dont know ??? The dates do line up with the rest of the amp !  The early combos never mention what speaker it has in it...

Weird ass coincidence ?


Who cares... «LOL

Still have a nice cab for it...


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## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

The cab on a Sunn head is usually almost twice that height. You must have to pull the chassis to pull the tubes on this one.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

I had a Sunn head in the late 80's, I want to say a Colosium, noisiest amp I ever owned. It had a cabinet with a gaggle of small speakers,


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Frenchy99 said:


> I am happy to discover that this is an early enough model to clearly have both Dynaco transformers in it !


Well extra score then! The even earlier ones had square cans over the transformers so that they barely fit in the headshell.

Makes me wonder, I assumed they just weren't, if any of mine were proper Dynacos too. I sold this Solarus not claiming themto be (someone did ask) - I don't remember seeing a Dynaco stamp on it like the PT (?) picture above but not sure I gave it a really good look. Mostly because I don't care that much - the copies Sunn commissioned were just as good only without the name and therefore the cachet. Like look at these, they look very similar (sure appearance is not everything, but it means they were at least trying to duplicatre the design - in the first half of the tube period they were not cuting corners on parts - that started with stopping the use of JBL speakers).










That's gone now (regret; the trem was better than my 1200s even though supposed to be same circuit).

Which reminds me - most of the ground connections to chassis are rivets. Those loosen over time and create suboptimal ground points (usually most obvious when the trem starts acting weird, but yours doesn't have that) so I recommend drilling them out and replacing with proper machine screws with keps nuts or proper lock washers. On the above Solarus I also had to replace the cap can (the JJ 40/20/20/20 is readily available and fits fine but you need to also get the mounting clamp, the pic is before that).


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Tone Chaser said:


> The cab on a Sunn head is usually almost twice that height. You must have to pull the chassis to pull the tubes on this one.


They built the head case the same size as the combo one so that the front grill would fit. Its 8 inches high, the tubes come in and out easily but a little tight. Nothing to complain about.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

MarkM said:


> I had a Sunn head in the late 80's, I want to say a Colosium, noisiest amp I ever owned. It had a cabinet with a gaggle of small speakers,


Sounds like yours needed a cap job !


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Well extra score then! The even earlier ones had square cans over the transformers so that they barely fit in the headshell.
> 
> Makes me wonder, I assumed they just weren't, if any of mine were proper Dynacos too. I sold this Solarus not claiming themto be (someone did ask) - I don't remember seeing a Dynaco stamp on it like the PT (?) picture above but not sure I gave it a really good look. Mostly because I don't care that much - the copies Sunn commissioned were just as good only without the name and therefore the cachet. Like look at these, they look very similar (sure appearance is not everything, but it means they were at least trying to duplicatre the design - in the first half of the tube period they were not cuting corners on parts - that started with stopping the use of JBL speakers).
> 
> ...



From what I read and saw on pictures, the Dynaco and replacement transformers look identical. I didn't come across anyone stating that one type sounded better... Cork sniffing ???

Thanks for the grounding tip ! 

I will be doing a partial cap job this weekend since one of the smaller caps is leaking. Will most likely order a proper CE multi cap to replace the current one. Might change my mind since do have a bunch of JJ multi caps in stock. Will see...


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

With the heat outside, i`m in cap job mode in the AC.

Pulled the amp apart, pulled a quick cap job on it.










Left the old ones in there and just added new ones.










Disconnected the polarity switch.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Took out some new EH EL34 tubes.










After trying a few, managed to match up a pair.










This baby is good to go for the next 25 years ! 










Just have to decide if I will re-tolex the head and cab !?!


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Paul Running said:


> A clean ultra-linear design...basically half of a Dynaco ST-70. Nice acquisition.


Nice to learn this today! The output transformer number matches the Dynaco ST70 part number. Is the amp circuit exactly the same? It looks like ST70 with a 12ax7 added as a guitar preamp tone circuit.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Here's a partial of the ST-70 schematic:


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Frenchy99 said:


> Pulled the amp apart, pulled a quick cap job on it.


Are you purchasing your caps in bulk now?


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Paul Running said:


> Are you purchasing your caps in bulk now?


I made a list last autumn of what I needed as caps for about 15 amps and ordered very large orders. I carry a large inventory of the larger multi can caps. Smaller odd ones I can pick up locally.

Do you have a source for buying bulk ?


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Frenchy99 said:


> Do you have a source for buying bulk ?


No, I have not purchased new bulk electronics parts in many years. Many years ago, I used to deal through Electro-sonic.


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