# LA Music



## Toogy (Apr 16, 2009)

Anyone order from them online? They have a great deal on an ESP/LTD guitar that I'm looking at but I've never bought from them before and just wanted some other people's opinions.

Is it better to make the drive to Toronto and go to the actual store?


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## zurn (Oct 21, 2009)

My advice would be, STAY AWAY. Prices may be good but customer service is awful.

Check out this thread.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

There are several threads on LA Music on this board. Check out this thread. (Thanks, Zurn!)

The general consensus is that you'd be best off with another dealer.

Check out the L&M that's opening in London. They bought three store locations there and are consolidating. May be some good deals as they clear lines they don't carry.

If nothing else, L&M has a great refund and exchange policy; something that LA Music seems to fall short on in every bit of anecdotal evidence.


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## Toogy (Apr 16, 2009)

Yeah I'm going to hit up the L&M stores later today to see if they have anything, but nobody around here seems to carry ESP/LTD...


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

Toogy said:


> Yeah I'm going to hit up the L&M stores later today to see if they have anything, but nobody around here seems to carry ESP/LTD...


try axe music. they are great guys. I believe they price match as well.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

La Music (Port Credit Miss.) is a great store. I have not bought on line but I always enjoy going in there. One thing I really like about them is it is not open season on the more expensive guitars. ( over a grand) If you want to try one out the salesperson will get it from behind the counter and bring it over to you to look over and try out once he feels you might be interested in truly buying it. 
This store should be a destination for any guitar player and when you are done you can wonder across the road to the guitar shop.

I do not like going to the orange box store mentioned earlier and seeing every kid ( with no money) in town pounding away on the $4000 gibsons that a serious musician might be interested in . Also with their return policy who knows what you are buying and where it has been. I guess that is why they no longer have plastic on any guitar pick guards because they do not want you to know when you are buying used.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

There are two LA Music stores not related. The one with customer service problems is out of Mississauga I believe. The one with a good rep is out of Brantford I believe.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Robert1950 said:


> The one with a good rep is out of Brantford I believe.


Yes...Great store! 

Owned and run by the same family for years. 

Cheers

Dave


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## Toogy (Apr 16, 2009)

blam said:


> try axe music. they are great guys. I believe they price match as well.


Yes they have good prices and I've dealt with them before, just worry about their return policy... 10% restocking plus having to pay for the shipping back, plus credited for the initial free shipping... seems a little crappy!


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

deadear said:


> I do not like going to the orange box store mentioned earlier and seeing every kid ( with no money) in town pounding away on the $4000 gibsons that a serious musician might be interested in . Also with their return policy who knows what you are buying and where it has been. I guess that is why they no longer have plastic on any guitar pick guards because they do not want you to know when you are buying used.


The used stuff has (or used to have) 2 barcodes, the new stuff has one.

Peace, Mooh.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

deadear said:


> I do not like going to the orange box store mentioned earlier and seeing every kid ( with no money) in town pounding away on the $4000 gibsons that a serious musician might be interested in . Also with their return policy who knows what you are buying and where it has been. I guess that is why they no longer have plastic on any guitar pick guards because they do not want you to know when you are buying used.



if those kids pounding away on the $4000 gibson's aren't doing any damage to the guitar, then no harm/no foul.
me myself, if i was buying something that cost $4000, regardless of what it was, i would look it over very carefully. 
i would expect the salesperson to discount for any damage i found, and if it was beyond what i could accept i'd just ask for a new one in the box, and have them set it up properly right then. if they won't do that for someone spending 4 grand, then you needn't shop there. i suspect if those kids were doing any damage at all, to any of the guitars, the shop would put a stop to it pretty quick.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Its also good to ask about its history, i just bought a used amp and found it was purchased for 1 week yet the price was 50% off.
Needless to say I bought it and have 30 days to ensure it works for me.

Don't be afraid to ask questions, you may or may not like what you hear but you will be informed.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Toogy said:


> Anyone order from them online? They have a great deal on an ESP/LTD guitar that I'm looking at but I've never bought from them before and just wanted some other people's opinions.Is it better to make the drive to Toronto and go to the actual store?


I live near there so visit fairly often. Great selection, hit or miss service.I prefer Mojo Music for most things, but am not really big on their tendency to stock mostly off-brand guitars. But it's a much more personal experience there.


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## Last_Train (Nov 27, 2008)

I posted on a previous LA Music thread mentioned , I had a great experience dealing with them , needed a drum part, talked with one of their drum techs , he recomeded a better suited part than I originally called for around the same money & it worked out better, was shipped quickly . Positive . Deal with who you are comfortable with & ask lots of questions as Bevo says


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Toogy said:


> Yeah I'm going to hit up the L&M stores later today to see if they have anything, but nobody around here seems to carry ESP/LTD...


What models are you looking at?

They go for great prices used.


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## Fiveway (Mar 21, 2010)

deadear said:


> La Music (Port Credit Miss.) is a great store. I have not bought on line but I always enjoy going in there. One thing I really like about them is it is not open season on the more expensive guitars. ( over a grand) If you want to try one out the salesperson will get it from behind the counter and bring it over to you to look over and try out once he feels you might be interested in truly buying it.
> This store should be a destination for any guitar player and when you are done you can wonder across the road to the guitar shop.
> 
> I do not like going to the orange box store mentioned earlier and seeing every kid ( with no money) in town pounding away on the $4000 gibsons that a serious musician might be interested in . Also with their return policy who knows what you are buying and where it has been. I guess that is why they no longer have plastic on any guitar pick guards because they do not want you to know when you are buying used.


Give me a break. LA Music treats EVERY customer like they're "every kid (with no money)". It doesn't matter if you're a kid in a band, a responsible middle-aged guy or a well-off older gent -- they treat you like shit regardless. Even after you've given them your money they'll treat you like shit. At least L&M treats everyone like they're a real customer. And if you've bought stuff and you've got an issue, they'll help make it right. I'd give my money to L&M or Axe any day. LA Music will never get another dime from me.


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## mlmcallister (May 12, 2011)

Yes, I have called the store directly to process an order as well as simply ordered online. I have always been surprised by speedy deliveries. Thus far problem free. That said when I feel like making a 3 hr drive to the Toronto area I always enjoy visiting the store. Beware, time disappears when browsing in a guitar shop.


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## mlmcallister (May 12, 2011)

Ok I just don't get this. I have even had equipment ( faulty cables) returned without issue, and I had lost my receipt. I have always been treated with respect. Believe me, I would not return otherwise.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Fiveway said:


> Give me a break. LA Music treats EVERY customer like they're "every kid (with no money)". It doesn't matter if you're a kid in a band, a responsible middle-aged guy or a well-off older gent -- they treat you like shit regardless. Even after you've given them your money they'll treat you like shit. At least L&M treats everyone like they're a real customer. And if you've bought stuff and you've got an issue, they'll help make it right. I'd give my money to L&M or Axe any day. LA Music will never get another dime from me.


I can't say I've had such great experiences with L&M either, tbh. Thinking back to a time on a weeknight evening when I had to chase around an easily distracted salesperson and stand around waiting for about an hour, for the privilege to buy a $1600 Charvel that had been on the shelf for months. Several times it felt like that scene in Pretty Woman. And I'm not even a grungy kid. Burlington location.


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## TubeStack (Jul 16, 2009)

I've always had great experiences with LA Music in Brantford. Fantastic guys, great family-run business.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

Diablo said:


> I can't say I've had such great experiences with L&M either, tbh. Thinking back to a time on a weeknight evening when I had to chase around an easily distracted salesperson and stand around waiting for about an hour, for the privilege to buy a $1600 Charvel that had been on the shelf for months. Several times it felt like that scene in Pretty Woman. And I'm not even a grungy kid. Burlington location.


Did you tell anyone at L&M head office about your experience?

I've e-mailed them about good and bad staffers at various store locations, and always received prompt follow-up. 

My first really good instrument was purchased from L&M in '78, and I've been doing business with them ever since. Not exclusively, but generally they give me the best deals. Their liberal return policy has certainly made it easier to decide on some purchases I was on the on the fence over.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

11 years dealing with L&M and not a bad year in the bunch for us. The L&M head office have people that are also members of the forum here too and have even come on here to sort out the very rare issues that have occurred. They are only one of a couple companies that have done this so many respects to them.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Other than going to L&M in Winnipeg while I lived in Manitoba,
I've ordered a bunch of stuff from the south since I've been here in Sudbury.

I've yet to have a negative experience with them yet.


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## Toogy (Apr 16, 2009)

smorgdonkey said:


> What models are you looking at?
> 
> They go for great prices used.


LTD MH-1000 or M-1000 - Don't see anything used anywhere right now! Unless I'm missing someplace to look?


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

Toogy said:


> LTD MH-1000 or M-1000 - Don't see anything used anywhere right now! Unless I'm missing someplace to look?


Possibly...the price isn't great, but you can use LA music's online price to bargain the seller down.

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/mss/msg/2849266529.html


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## Toogy (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks for finding that! I'll contact him and see... Not too sure I like the blue though.. but beggars can't be choosers! lol


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

L&M once messed up a banjo case order, but one glitch in many years and many thousands of dollars worth of business is negligible. They made that order right by shipping the right case to me at their expense and an apology from the staff responsible, even though I didn't make a huge issue of it. Very professional.

I use a couple of mom'n'pop shops when I can too.

Peace, Mooh.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

LA Music (the best guitar shop in the GTA) is the thread not L&M everyone. If you want to stroke L&M start a new thread about your expierences there.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Fiveway said:


> Give me a break. LA Music treats EVERY customer like they're "every kid (with no money)". It doesn't matter if you're a kid in a band, a responsible middle-aged guy or a well-off older gent -- they treat you like shit regardless. Even after you've given them your money they'll treat you like shit. At least L&M treats everyone like they're a real customer. And if you've bought stuff and you've got an issue, they'll help make it right. I'd give my money to L&M or Axe any day. LA Music will never get another dime from me.


 PLease elaborate on the expierence that soured you


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Merlin said:


> *Did you tell anyone at L&M head office about your experience?*
> 
> I've e-mailed them about good and bad staffers at various store locations, and always received prompt follow-up.
> 
> My first really good instrument was purchased from L&M in '78, and I've been doing business with them ever since. Not exclusively, but generally they give me the best deals. Their liberal return policy has certainly made it easier to decide on some purchases I was on the on the fence over.


Nope, IMO Ive wasted enough time with them...which isnt to say I wont ever shop there again, its just no longer my first choice.
I dont have anythign to gain by helping them solve their customer service issues, they arent the only shop in town for me, and Im somewhat soured on the "reporting to management" experience from other times when Ive done it, and its gone nowhere.

Also, i dont go for blood when I get bad service. its not worth it for me to get upset about, and Im a beleiver that Karma is really powerful in sales commissions.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

deadear said:


> LA Music (the best guitar shop in the GTA) is the thread not L&M everyone. If you want to stroke L&M start a new thread about your expierences there.


It is valid to compare the 2 as they are competitors.........


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## Fiveway (Mar 21, 2010)

deadear said:


> LA Music (the best guitar shop in the GTA) is the thread not L&M everyone. If you want to stroke L&M start a new thread about your expierences there.


Your agenda is showing. You obviously work there. You're not going to be able to fix the problems in your guitar dept. by talking up the store on an internet forum. You'll actually have to fix the problems. Everything else is just talk. 

Just so you're aware, the problems I'm referring to are the fact that you have no respect for your customer because you treat us all like 12 year olds with no money. And you perpetuate that attitude through your entire retail experience.


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## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

I have dropped by LA Music a few times when in that neck of the woods. I've never had a problem being shown into the fancy guitar room to check out the Gibson Custom Shop Les Pauls and playing them for an hour or so per visit, uninterrupted. I've been treated like a middle-aged retro-grouch with fat stacks. Perhaps it's my regal bearing.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Fiveway said:


> Your agenda is showing. You obviously work there. You're not going to be able to fix the problems in your guitar dept. by talking up the store on an internet forum. You'll actually have to fix the problems. Everything else is just talk.
> 
> Just so you're aware, the problems I'm referring to are the fact that you have no respect for your customer because you treat us all like 12 year olds with no money. And you perpetuate that attitude through your entire retail experience.


Fiveaway I do not work there but I do know a great selection when I see it. Never had a problem going into either store in Port Credit. Always treated proper. Is it possible you are a disgruntaled ex employee and you are trying to slander your old boss on the web or possibly you plugged in there and no body gave your playing any credit. They hear 50 average at best players a day you know. I am still waiting for your actual incident that soured you but you don't seem to be able to come up with it.


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## Fiveway (Mar 21, 2010)

deadear said:


> Fiveaway I do not work there but I do know a great selection when I see it. Never had a problem going into either store in Port Credit. Always treated proper. Is it possible you are a disgruntaled ex employee and you are trying to slander your old boss on the web or possibly you plugged in there and no body gave your playing any credit. They hear 50 average at best players a day you know. I am still waiting for your actual incident that soured you but you don't seem to be able to come up with it.


An ad hominem attack won't get you far. I'm done with you, troll.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

I wrote that shop off a few times yet still went back the other day to look at some new gear I did not need.
Playing a nice guitar I was thinking of I found no seat and no strap so sat down on a Line6 cheap combo, I was given crap right away for sitting on an amp..fair enough.. the problem was he gave me more crap saying would I do this at home, answering yes caused him to cut a strip off me.

Putting the guitar back and heading to the bass side I seen him talk to a guy while looking at me. Later when I asked about an amp I was told i can't afford the $499 purchase price.
45 years old and a property Manager with disposable income wearing dress clothes... yeah I look 12

Looking at the acoustics I was given stink eye.

This pissed me off and when I asked a manager looking guy why I am getting attitude when I have previously bought lots of gear they said no you have not!
All I could say was that you have brought a great guitar shop down to nothing.

One last thing, I found so many guitars so out of tune and in need of major set ups that they were useless. When I pointed it out they said they will offer a free tune up, I said why not do it so I want to feel and hear the guitar at its best I was told its not important to anyone but the picky people.

Rant over, I have "0" desire to go back ever again, thats also what I said the last time!
I went to L$M and bought the bass amp I was looking for and got it cheaper than they were selling it for.

Stay away and save the parking fee, this shop is useless and will just ruin your day!!


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Bevo said:


> I wrote that shop off a few times yet still went back the other day to look at some new gear I did not need.
> Playing a nice guitar I was thinking of I found no seat and no strap so sat down on a Line6 cheap combo, I was given crap right away for sitting on an amp..fair enough.. the problem was he gave me more crap saying would I do this at home, answering yes caused him to cut a strip off me.
> 
> Putting the guitar back and heading to the bass side I seen him talk to a guy while looking at me. Later when I asked about an amp I was told i can't afford the $499 purchase price.
> ...


Now thats a review


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## Hired Goon (Mar 4, 2008)

I don't know if it's fair to target a chain so much as it may simply be the attitude of the individual salesman or manager in any one store. We've all had to deal with some attitude when it comes to customer service be it the grocery store clerk or the secretary at your doctor's office. It does reflect negatively on the business as a whole, but it's hard to weed out the bad apples. Most people won't go the extra effort to complain about shitty treatment to the manager - they will usually just avoid the store as a result. Even with complaints it will likely be some time before that bad apple is taken out.

As for trying out guitars...if I was the owner of a guitar store I likely wouldn't want your average teenager to be playing the most expensive guitars. Let's face it...a little ding will lose you a lot of money. The danger is then that you try to guess who's serious about buying based on appearance. That teenager might be dead serious about purchasing the custom LP and you just wrote him off. Do you take the customer in the suit more seriously than the customer in track-pants? Do you give the older customer more cred than the younger customer?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Running any business that depends on "product testing" is a tough one. Sometimes you can get away with having a demo of something and that one unit takes all the punishment. But that is not always possible to do. The guitar game is one of those. So it must be a challenge for shop owners to decide who, if any, gets to give the $2500 guitars a workout. 

I remember way back when my wife and I were out shopping for a car. We were maybe 22-23 years old at the time. We went into a GM dealership and spotted a Firebird that was on the lot. I think it may have even been used, cant recall. But the sales guy say's lets go for a drive. He takes the wheel and we sat in the car for a drive. Would not even let either one of us drive it with him in the car. We get back and I said thanks, see ya later. Maybe he thought we were just a couple of kids with no money. He was wrong. We ended up getting a car that week but not from that dealership.

So there is a line that has to be drawn somewhere. Where that is, I am not really sure


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Goon, sorry but still a bit fired up.

lets make it easier.
If you did own the store, would you have the best product available in a sellable condition, Yes!
Would you take the time to say hello and see if they need anything, Yes!
Would you assume from the answers of the above questions if they are serious or not, Yes!

Do you feel that giving someone crap because they made a mistake normal, can be a yes.
Do you feel that you should berate this person because they made a misatake, No!

Do you feel that if you give this person good service they would be happy, be back, tell their friends and spend more money, Yes!

Customer service is a big thing that everyone in retail needs to know, these guys don't.

I would of bought something if I didn't get crap or if I got good service. This is also the third time this has happened at the same store, I was previously assured that the guitar I wanted was in stock, when I got there with guitar bag and money I was told they don't have it after being assured it was ready to go. I was also told that guitars only have 6 strings and I don't know what I am talking about when I asked for a 7 string set.

Before this shop was amazing, the guy with the PRS birds on his arm was worth the visit. They gave you a greeting and told you to give them a call if you needed anything. The variety and set up of the gear was top notch, I lost hours there and actualy got a parking ticket because of chatting and playing but did not care.
I was in a pinch one Sunday and called them before they opened and met a guy to get what I needed before the even opened the doors, he was more than happy and did not even want the Coffee I brought him.

I need a drink and a guitar!!


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Fiveway said:


> An ad hominem attack won't get you far. I'm done with you, troll.


Well I am not done with you . Three posts by you slandering a shop and you have not got the balls to post the incidents that soured you. Now I am done with you.


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## Hired Goon (Mar 4, 2008)

Hey Bevo no doubt you were treated badly. It might be they have a bad group at that particular location, or one bad manager and his attitude trickles down to all the staff. I'm just saying that the LA Music in the next town might be completely different. Never been to an LA music myself. Maybe they need some feedback over there. If I was the owner I sure would like to know about these sort of things.

I deal with L&M in Edmonton, as well as Axe and Mother's Music (now part of L&M I guess). They've all been good to me. I like Avenue Guitars too but they don't have the best return policy though I guess I can understand that with them being a smaller store.


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## MusicShopperCA (Feb 20, 2012)

Hired Goon said:


> Hey Bevo no doubt you were treated badly. It might be they have a bad group at that particular location, or one bad manager and his attitude trickles down to all the staff. I'm just saying that the LA Music in the next town might be completely different. Never been to an LA music myself. Maybe they need some feedback over there. If I was the owner I sure would like to know about these sort of things.
> 
> I deal with L&M in Edmonton, as well as Axe and Mother's Music (now part of L&M I guess). They've all been good to me. I like Avenue Guitars too but they don't have the best return policy though I guess I can understand that with them being a smaller store.


I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here. There is only one L.A. Music (as being discussed here). There is another store by the same name, but they are unrelated. The L.A. Music being discussed here has a single location in Mississauga, Ontario.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I think if I owned the one in Brantford I would think about changing the name


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I think if I owned the one in Brantford I would think about changing the name


For sure !! 

It is such a great store. The exact opposite of LA Music in Mississauga

Cheers

Dave


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Although Bevo has complete credibility with me, having met and done a deal with him in the past, I have to say that I haven't had any negative experiences at L.A Music in the 15 or so times I've been there-and im a 40-something suit as well . 
Although I do find the sales guys to be a little pushy and rough around the edges, they've always encouraged me to try out the guitars.I haven't spent much there, just some accessories, a couple pedals, and taken a few guitars there for setups.But I have heard some horror stories from ppl who've placed orders with them online.


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## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

Diablo said:


> Although Bevo has complete credibility with me, having met and done a deal with him in the past, I have to say that I haven't had any negative experiences at L.A Music in the 15 or so times I've been there-and im a 40-something suit as well .
> Although I do find the sales guys to be a little pushy and rough around the edges, they've always encouraged me to try out the guitars.I haven't spent much there, just some accessories, a couple pedals, and taken a few guitars there for setups.But I have heard some horror stories from ppl who've placed orders with them online.


I'm one of those who had a bad experience ordering online. I ordered a keyboard they advertised as "in stock", and called toll free to confirm the order. They assured me it was in stock and would be shipped in a couple of days. After repeated calls over several days, I found out that"in stock" meant in the suppliers warehouse, and they were waiting for it to be shipped to them so they could ship it to me. They apologized, and after about six weeks I got my "in stock" keyboard. Ifd it was only one or two bad reviews, that would be expected, but, at least on this forum, good reviews for LA Music are the exception, not the norm. 'Nuff said.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Guys, I think I might of been a bit upset yesterday when I wrote this and as I think about it all day today I think I may need to take my experience with a grain of salt.

My thoughts are that the staff they have hired do not know music or what is sold in the shop. They see value above anything else and are told to treat the gear as you break it you bought it, meaning if a kid breaks it and can't pay you are in trouble.
The staff see the item as a sale and nothing more, so if you come to play or look like you do you get the weak service.

The blame to me lies in the people who run the store, I think they are not people who have a passion for music, they are bottom line people.

To me this is proven by they staff not able to play the gear or really know how to operate it. This is probably the only store I have been to where I have not seen the staff jamming away when no one is around. Overhearing a conversation one staff member said they could not play.

So sorry if I was a bit cranky but I am in customer service and don't like to be treated that way.

Thanks
Bev


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Bevo any staff I have delt with can play when I have been in there. AS far as management goes I have not herd them but the latin guys on the main floor are the owners which are hands on and have all the money tied up. I would blow a fuse if someone was siting on one of my amps also they are not built for siting on. But he should not have kept on you about it. They are not perfect but be thankfull they are there fighting the monopoly of L&m. They have to import their own Gibsons because Yorkville is tied at the hip with L&M . And Yorkville is the distributer for GIbson.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

deadear said:


> They have to import their own Gibsons because Yorkville is tied at the hip with L&M . And Yorkville is the distributer for GIbson. r


Please explain how they manage to import Gibsons outside of Yorkvilles contol? I thought Yorkville had exclusive access to distributing Gibson guitars in Canada.


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## MusicShopperCA (Feb 20, 2012)

bagpipe said:


> Please explain how they manage to import Gibsons outside of Yorkvilles contol? I thought Yorkville had exclusive access to distributing Gibson guitars in Canada.


They do.

Gibson is _not_ selling guitars into Canada through any channel but Yorkville. Period.


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## Fiveway (Mar 21, 2010)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Running any business that depends on "product testing" is a tough one. Sometimes you can get away with having a demo of something and that one unit takes all the punishment. But that is not always possible to do. The guitar game is one of those. So it must be a challenge for shop owners to decide who, if any, gets to give the $2500 guitars a workout.
> 
> I remember way back when my wife and I were out shopping for a car. We were maybe 22-23 years old at the time. We went into a GM dealership and spotted a Firebird that was on the lot. I think it may have even been used, cant recall. But the sales guy say's lets go for a drive. He takes the wheel and we sat in the car for a drive. Would not even let either one of us drive it with him in the car. We get back and I said thanks, see ya later. Maybe he thought we were just a couple of kids with no money. He was wrong. We ended up getting a car that week but not from that dealership.
> 
> So there is a line that has to be drawn somewhere. Where that is, I am not really sure


You make a great point. Most people need to play a guitar before they buy it. It's the playing that seals the decision for people. The inventory is expensive and I'm empathetic to that, but you've got to sell it, because it's only costing you money if it's sitting there on your shop wall. I work as a creative director in an advertising agency so I'm constantly thinking about what my clients' customers _really_ want (as opposed to what my clients want). And I feel like LA Music is thinking about protecting the inventory they've invested in and not putting a ton of thought into what their customers really want when they buy guitars. When you build a museum of ultra-desirable guitars that you keep your customers out of, you're basically saying "I don't trust you to drive this Firebird." But it's not just one salesperson doing it, it's the very design of your store.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

deadear said:


> They have to import their own Gibsons because Yorkville is tied at the hip with L&M . And Yorkville is the distributer for GIbson.


You paint yourself as a defender of LA Music, then turn around and accuse them of selling gray market Gibson guitars?

With friends like you, they certainly don't need enemies.


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## TubeStack (Jul 16, 2009)

So LA Music in Brantford is not part of the same chain as the Mississauga store?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

TubeStack said:


> So LA Music in Brantford is not part of the same chain as the Mississauga store?


NO...and since you live so close, you owe it to yourself to check it out. Great store !!

Cheers

Dave


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## TubeStack (Jul 16, 2009)

greco said:


> NO...and since you live so close, you owe it to yourself to check it out. Great store !!CheersDave


Oh I've been there, as mentioned earlier in the thread. Yes, great store and family staff. I get strings there a lot.

But if I'm buying a bigger item, I can usually save $50-$100 by driving another 15min to L&Ms in Cambridge. And L&Ms will do payment plans if it's a big, big item.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

washburned said:


> I'm one of those who had a bad experience ordering online. I ordered a keyboard they advertised as "in stock", and called toll free to confirm the order. They assured me it was in stock and would be shipped in a couple of days. After repeated calls over several days, I found out that"in stock" meant in the suppliers warehouse, and they were waiting for it to be shipped to them so they could ship it to me. They apologized, and after about six weeks I got my "in stock" keyboard. Ifd it was only one or two bad reviews, that would be expected, but, at least on this forum, good reviews for LA Music are the exception, not the norm. 'Nuff said.


Ya, I only have on experience when them. I ordered a pedal listed as 'in stock' from them, and it took 3 months to get here. Most emails I sent them during that time were ignored.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Merlin said:


> You paint yourself as a defender of LA Music, then turn around and accuse them of selling gray market Gibson guitars?
> 
> With friends like you, they certainly don't need enemies.


 Gray market ? It does not matter to me where they get them as long as they are authentic new guitars. Knowing this I as a buyer realize that warranty issues at a later date if they arise will be difficult. You can call it gray but it is no different than buying off one of the american internet stores and having them ship it. It is actually beter for the canadian economy because LA music supplies some jobs.
Again without stores like LA L&M would have a complete monopoly of Gibson guitars in Canada.


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## MusicShopperCA (Feb 20, 2012)

deadear said:


> Gray market ? It does not matter to me where they get them as long as they are authentic new guitars. Knowing this I as a buyer realize that warranty issues at a later date if they arise will be difficult. You can call it gray but it is no different than buying off one of the american internet stores and having them ship it. It is actually beter for the canadian economy because LA music supplies some jobs.
> Again without stores like LA L&M would have a complete monopoly of Gibson guitars in Canada.


Dead wrong. I don't think you know what monopoly means. First and foremost, monopolies effect markets, not brands. Secondly, while owned by the same family as L+M, Yorkville supplies Gibsons to many stores other than L+M. Any new Gibson you see in any store in Canada (almost certainly including L.A.) came through Yorkville. They don't price discriminate based on competition either. They don't solely supply to L+M, and they don't try to price out L+M's competitors, therefor under no circumstances could L+M possible have a "monopoly" on Gibsons. 
th
Secondly, if L.A. were actually sourcing Gibsons through some other channel, it would not be better for the Canadian economy in any way. There is literally no way to argue that. Yes, L.A. provides jobs, but 1) L.A. would not shut down if their Gibsons ran dry, thus the jobs do not depend on the Gibsons and 2) they can (and do) get Gibsons from Yorkville. There is absolutely no way to argue that sourcing Gibsons outside of the proper channels benefits the Canadian economy.

Finally, if they actually were doing that, it would bring up some serious questions. Namely, where are they getting them, and how do we verify what they're getting? When you buy from a distributor, you buy at wholesale price, which is what allows the retailer to make a profit. If L.A. isn't buying from Yorkville, and they _can't_ buy from the American distributors, where are they getting these Gibsons? If they're buying them retail and then reselling them, there is no way they're making a profit. So they'd have to be getting them cheap. How? How could they be getting Gibsons cheap enough to resell at retail and make a profit if they aren't going through a distributor? Scary to think about.

I don't know where you heard that this is L.A.'s practice, but you really should stop spreading. I'm sure they'd appreciate it. 1) It's almost certainly not true and 2) if it did turn out to be true, it would be massively damning for the store.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

MusicShopperCA said:


> Dead wrong. I don't think you know what monopoly means. First and foremost, monopolies effect markets, not brands. Secondly, while owned by the same family as L+M, Yorkville supplies Gibsons to many stores other than L+M. Any new Gibson you see in any store in Canada (almost certainly including L.A.) came through Yorkville. They don't price discriminate based on competition either. They don't solely supply to L+M, and they don't try to price out L+M's competitors, therefor under no circumstances could L+M possible have a "monopoly" on Gibsons.
> th
> Secondly, if L.A. were actually sourcing Gibsons through some other channel, it would not be better for the Canadian economy in any way. There is literally no way to argue that. Yes, L.A. provides jobs, but 1) L.A. would not shut down if their Gibsons ran dry, thus the jobs do not depend on the Gibsons and 2) they can (and do) get Gibsons from Yorkville. There is absolutely no way to argue that sourcing Gibsons outside of the proper channels benefits the Canadian economy.
> 
> ...


 pure hogwash. Try opening a guitar store and getting Gibsons off Yorkville any where close to a L&m. Monopoly


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## MusicShopperCA (Feb 20, 2012)

deadear said:


> pure hogwash. Try opening a guitar store and getting Gibsons off Yorkville any where close to a L&m. Monopoly


With every single post you dig yourself deeper. In Toronto alone Steve's Music, 12th fret, etc, all carry new Gibson product. They get it from Yorkville. In B.C. Tom Lee Music, whos locations are all in the same cities as L+M, carries new Gibson product. They get it from Yorkville. There are countless instances of stores in the same cities as L+Ms sourcing Gibson product from Yorkville. Yorkville does not deny supply to stores based on them being local competition for L+M. Your argument holds no water.

As someone else has already said, if your goal here is to try and defend L.A. Music, you're doing the opposite, and I'm sure at this point the store and its owners would probably appreciate it if you would stop.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Toogy said:


> Thanks for finding that! I'll contact him and see... Not too sure I like the blue though.. but beggars can't be choosers! lol


The blue is gorgeous. Black is boring.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

MusicShopperCA said:


> With every single post you dig yourself deeper. In Toronto alone Steve's Music, 12th fret, etc, all carry new Gibson product. They get it from Yorkville. In B.C. Tom Lee Music, whos locations are all in the same cities as L+M, carries new Gibson product. They get it from Yorkville. There are countless instances of stores in the same cities as L+Ms sourcing Gibson product from Yorkville. Yorkville does not deny supply to stores based on them being local competition for L+M. Your argument holds no water.
> 
> As someone else has already said, if your goal here is to try and defend L.A. Music, you're doing the opposite, and I'm sure at this point the store and its owners would probably appreciate it if you would stop.


 Yes Yes I just looked at your web site and low and behold advertisment for L&M on the front page.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

deadear said:


> MusicShopperCA said:
> 
> 
> > With every single post you dig yourself deeper. In Toronto alone Steve's Music, 12th fret, etc, all carry new Gibson product. They get it from Yorkville. In B.C. Tom Lee Music, whos locations are all in the same cities as L+M, carries new Gibson product. They get it from Yorkville. There are countless instances of stores in the same cities as L+Ms sourcing Gibson product from Yorkville. Yorkville does not deny supply to stores based on them being local competition for L+M. Your argument holds no water.
> ...


Nice job at changing the subject.

Do you know of stores that have been denied Gibson stock by Yorkville?


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

deadear said:


> Yes Yes I just looked at your web site and low and behold advertisment for L&M on the front page.


Yes, and a listing for LA Music with their online dealers. I'm sure they could buy a banner ad too if they wanted.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

hardasmum said:


> Nice job at changing the subject.
> 
> Do you know of stores that have been denied Gibson stock by Yorkville?


Several in Oakville and Burlington. Not going to name because they are the little guys.Nobody sells Gibson other than L&M for a reason in either city. I am sure most of them would not mind some of the cheaper ones on their wall but are not allowed to carry the line. If anyone was allowed to sell Gibson I would open up a store right across the road from L&M and undercut them. I can live on next to nothing . One customer at a time buyers only please leave your large double doubles in the car I don't want them on my heads like the guy across the road likes. But that is another topic.


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## MusicShopperCA (Feb 20, 2012)

deadear said:


> Several in Oakville and Burlington. Not going to name because they are the little guys.Nobody sells Gibson other than L&M for a reason in either city. I am sure most of them would not mind some of the cheaper ones on their wall but are not allowed to carry the line. If anyone was allowed to sell Gibson I would open up a store right across the road from L&M and undercut them. I can live on next to nothing . One customer at a time buyers only please leave your large double doubles in the car I don't want them on my heads like the guy across the road likes.


There is no L+M in Oakville so your theory of Yorkville blocking stores based on nearby L+Ms does not in any way explain stores in Oakville not carrying Gibson. As I've already pointed out, there are numerous examples of Yorkville supplying stores in the same city as L+M's all over Canada. Your argument has absolutely no credibility. 

You also clearly have absolutely no understanding of how retail works. First of all, Long and McQuade price matches, so your lower price across the street would do nothing for your business. If you think your new shop would have the resources to outlast a massive chain by trying to compete on price, you're insane. Secondly, if it was that simple, why wouldn't all the other Canadian retailers just do that? They'd make a killing right? Wrong. The profitability of owning a music store is already low enough as is that it would do the industry as a whole absolutely no good to try and compete by constantly undercutting each other. These stores don't compete on price because for the most part they can't compete on price, nor would it be good business to in the first place. No one in Canada, not even Long and McQuade, is buying enough to make being a discounter a legitimate business model.

Again, you're just digging yourself deeper and deeper and you're not doing L.A. Music any favours. Unless you can come up with some proof that L.A. is sourcing their guitars outside of Yorkville, it's hearsay, and all logic points against it. And if you _could_ somehow come up with proof of it, you'd be doing the store a massive disservice!

P.S. I was in L.A. today. Haven't been in in a while and they'd changed things up since last time I was there. They'd changed the store again and I was very impressed by the amount of stock they had on the floor. As always we got excellent service. I've been going there for almost 15 years and the guys know me, but today new employees I've never seen or met were very cordial and very polite. We checked out a few guitars with no hassle.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Music Shopper .The reason there is no Gibsons in Oakville is they are at L&M five miles away in Burlington. Mojo or Gear could very easily put some on the wall if allowed.


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## MusicShopperCA (Feb 20, 2012)

deadear said:


> Music Shopper .The reason there is no Gibsons in Oakville is they are at L&M five miles away in Burlington.


Actually a quick check of google shows it's 16km from Gear Music to L+M in Burlington. Yet Steve's Music in Toronto is only less than 5km from L+M. Tom Lee Music in Nanaimo is less than 12km from L+M but has Gibsons supplied by Yorkville. In Abbotsford B.C, the distance between Tom Lee and L+M is less than 2km, yet both still carry Gibsons supplied by Yorkville.

Need I go on?


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

29 km from Mountain Music in Hamilton to L&M Burlington. I guess that's far enough to sell Gibbys.

I heard from a good source that many of the Gibsons at LA Music are actually Chinese counterfeits....or maybe I am just making that up....I'm not sure.


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## MusicShopperCA (Feb 20, 2012)

This entire issue can be summed up very easily:

LA Music doesn't sell their Gibsons clandestinely in a back alley. They're on the wall, and more importantly, they sell them on their website, loud and clear, with a big ol "Gibson Authorized Dealer" badge. So it isn't any secret that LA sells Gibsons.

Now if LA were getting those Gibsons from anyone but Yorkville, don't you think Yorkville, the _sole_ Canadian distributor for Gibson, would have something to say about that? I mean it's not like they don't know L.A. is selling them. 

Secondly, from a purely economic standpoint, why _wouldn't_ Yorkville sell Gibsons to L.A. if they know L.A. is just going to source them from somewhere else anyways? Why _force_ L.A. to buy from someone else when they could be buying from you? 

None of it adds up. Plain and simple. If Yorkville wasn't supplying L.A.'s Gibsons, they wouldn't just stand by and allow the store to get them from an unauthorized distributor. And secondly if they _were_ just going to stand by and allow it, why would they continue to refuse to sell to L.A. when instead they could be the ones making the revenue of those Gibsons L.A. buys?

It's just a matter of pure common sense. All evidence points to L.A. sourcing their Gibsons properly, just like everyone else does. All Deadear can provide is opinions and conjecture, all of which, as can be seen in this thread, can be easily shown to be nonsensical.


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## J-75 (Jul 29, 2010)

*One thing I don't get...*

Is nobody curious as to why two, 'independent', music stores would wind up with the same name? I mean, if I was forming a partnership, and our names happened to be Lee and Martin, it would be tempting to encourage the moniker: 'L&M' because of its goodwill association, but, 'LA'? What's up with that?


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## The_Penguin (Feb 26, 2012)

J-75 said:


> Is nobody curious as to why two, 'independent', music stores would wind up with the same name? I mean, if I was forming a partnership, and our names happened to be Lee and Martin, it would be tempting to encourage the moniker: 'L&M' because of its goodwill association, but, 'LA'? What's up with that?


Yeah, when you're registering a company name, you need to do a search and determine that no-one else is using a similar name in a similar line of business.
Not sure how or if at all that translates at all to store names.


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## FrankyNoTone (Feb 27, 2012)

One thing I don't get is why can't I find a music store that is open on Sundays! Seems like a conspiracy to me.


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## The_Penguin (Feb 26, 2012)

FrankyNoTone said:


> One thing I don't get is why can't I find a music store that is open on Sundays! Seems like a conspiracy to me.


I'm guessing that it's because they're staffed by musicians, and Saturday nights for musicians are either gigging, or partying (or partying AFTER gigging), and they can't function on Sundays.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

FrankyNoTone said:


> One thing I don't get is why can't I find a music store that is open on Sundays! Seems like a conspiracy to me.


for your sunday shopping needs...

http://paulsboutique.ca/

http://www.mojomusic.ca/

l and m in cambridge is open sundays too...


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

jimihendrix said:


> for your sunday shopping needs...
> 
> http://paulsboutique.ca/
> 
> ...


As is Sherwood Music in Kitchener.


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## TubeStack (Jul 16, 2009)

FrankyNoTone said:


> One thing I don't get is why can't I find a music store that is open on Sundays! Seems like a conspiracy to me.


Cambridge L&M's is (12-4).


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

Cosmo Music in Richmond Hill is open Sunday as well. 11 - 5.


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## FrankyNoTone (Feb 27, 2012)

Thanks for the links guys! If only I had known before  Mojo is close to me and I think I can swing by Cosmo on a milk run to BassPro (FGAS Fishing Gear Acquisition Syndrome). I think that these days, if someone is going to bother operating a brick and mortar store then they better be available when its convenient to customers who want to walk in the door and actually see and touch stuff before they buy. Otherwise, they might as well have just an online presence.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

J-75 said:


> Is nobody curious as to why two, 'independent', music stores would wind up with the same name? I mean, if I was forming a partnership, and our names happened to be Lee and Martin, it would be tempting to encourage the moniker: 'L&M' because of its goodwill association, but, 'LA'? What's up with that?


I agree that this is unusual. I totally avoid any dealings with either of the LA Music's because of the things I've read about the bad one on here. It's unfair to the good one, but thats just how it is.


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## WEEZY (May 23, 2008)

LA Music is where I went to buy my first set of new strings..... it was in the mid 1980's. (this is not a current review by any means) I knew NOTHING about guitars at the time, all I knew is that one of my strings broke and my teacher told me to buy a new set of strings. The man at the register asked what gauge I wanted. Gauge? I did not understand. The man got frustrated with me, fast. He grabbed a pack of strings, slammed them on the counter and said 'read this and then tell me what gauge you want' and stormed off to help someone else. I was very intimidated. I left the store, went across the street to the other guitar shop (I forget what it was called at the time). They patiently assisted me and sold me a few packs of 9's. I never (to this day) have gone back to LA Music.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

WEEZY said:


> LA Music is where I went to buy my first set of new strings..... it was in the mid 1980's. (this is not a current review by any means) I knew NOTHING about guitars at the time, all I knew is that one of my strings broke and my teacher told me to buy a new set of strings. The man at the register asked what gauge I wanted. Gauge? I did not understand. The man got frustrated with me, fast. He grabbed a pack of strings, slammed them on the counter and said 'read this and then tell me what gauge you want' and stormed off to help someone else. I was very intimidated. I left the store, went across the street to the other guitar shop (I forget what it was called at the time). They patiently assisted me and sold me a few packs of 9's. I never (to this day) have gone back to LA Music.


Can't resist but it would be a bit of a drive to get strings from Vancouver


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

deadear said:


> Can't resist but it would be a bit of a drive to get strings from Vancouver


hence, his frustration


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## J-75 (Jul 29, 2010)

*R.i.p.*

Just heard: Steve, of Steve's Music, just died - aged 65.


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## WEEZY (May 23, 2008)

deadear said:


> Can't resist but it would be a bit of a drive to get strings from Vancouver


It IS a drive! But I grew up in Port Credit and found it hard to break the habit of driving there to get strings.


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