# Help Please - regarding the proper fretting of scales...



## jburrowes (Apr 8, 2012)

Hi,

_This is my second post - the first being_ New at Fifty-Two... _in the For New Users section._

Can someone please tell me if, when I fret each note of a scale, I should keep up the slow practice until I can fret each note so precisely that the pad of my fingers don't touch an adjacent string?

For example I can, of course, fret the first four notes of the high E string cleanly - without touching the B string - but when I move up to that string, and then on to G, D, A, and low E, it is pretty hard to consistently fret each of their notes without touching the string below.

I don't know... Maybe it's good to kill the last string so that its last note doesn't continue ringing? When we fret a new note on the same string as the last one we immediately that last note so maybe this is a good thing? I hope so - cause otherwise it could be a while before I can get up to even a 60 bpm tempo.

Watching videos of various players, either doing scales or playing a melody, it often doesn't look like they're attacking the string vertically enough to not interfere with the string below. Certainly if I come in at such low angles I'll be killing strings continuously. Even though I've learned to be up against the frets so that I can use as light a pressure as possible, my soft finger-pads spread out pretty easily it seems.

In closing I'll add that while I know a few chords, and that they have to be fretted cleanly, I've not practiced them much at all. Since I want to play finger-style I have been focusing firstly on improving the control of my rebellious fingers - while staying relaxed. Improvement seems to be measurable only week by week - rather than day by day. It's frustrating.

Thanks for your time,

JB


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

> It's frustrating


Yup.. Guitar is such a physical thing. Keep at it and mix up both scales and some chords at a practice. One of the biggest problems with beginners is not keeping the wrist on the fretting hand at 90 degree to the neck. Doing this puts the pads of your fingers in a better position to plant them cleanly on the fretboard. It's all about muscle memory. Once you train your hand to land like this every time it will come out cleaner.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

I think you should work on both techniques.

There will be times when dampening a string with your fretting fingers will come in handy.

There will be time when you want them out of your way to let notes or open strings to ring.

It takes practice but you'll get there.

You have the idea right - attacking the strings vertically or not depending on what you want.


One thing that I've been working on lately is using a free finger to dampen strings that I don't want to play when playing a chord. I find it tough to not fret the string, but it's something for me to work on.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Something that frustrates me and I know the fix it is a matter of doing it. Wide finger pads need a wider neck or nut.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Yes, try and get it right, then get faster. There is no sense trying to go fast when you can't do it properly. As others have said, mix in some chords with your practising. Chords "C" and "G7" are good to get the fingers stretched out to begin with. Another thing that will help is doing the fingers stretches before you play and several times a day as it helps you with those chords. See the first video on post #2 in the link below. 

BE PATIENT WITH YOURSELF. IT WILL GET EASIER. DON'T GIVE UP.

http://www.guitarscanada.com/theory...ar-lessons-video-only-no-shredding-clips.html


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Yup. To quote Phil Dunphy, "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast". 

If you want to play fingerstyle you might as well get used to playing things at a glacial tempo for weeks (and months) until it all comes together.


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## jburrowes (Apr 8, 2012)

Hi everyone and thanks for your advice and encouragement.

Now I will answer/mention some the the suggestions made here and in my (first ever) post in the For New Users section. (New at Fifty-Two...)

shoretyus,

You're right I should start learning at least a song or two. A couple of weeks ago I bought a collection of 23 John Denver songs in simple melody format - for an easy-on-the-pocketbook $12.00. I did try playing the first bit of Sunshine On My Shoulders but found I was way too slow then. I'll have to try again, with it or one of the other songs, and keep at it till I get it. I'll keep practicing scales though!

Steadfastly,

I'll certainly check out those videos. I was already aware of Justin's excellent site. It was a pleasant surprise to see his videos being recognized here. I do find though that, what with all the helpful videos on YouTube, it's easy to fall into the trap of trying to do too much. That's why I didn't mind buying the book series I mentioned - which has the main advantage of gently easy one into reading music while providing simple (and boring) melodies to practice with.

I don't know about getting that Gibson DVD set. Maybe.

Mark P,

You said a lot and it all sounds like good advice to this newbie. My immediate goal is to be able to play simple melodies down at the nut, (first four frets or so), on tempo - and maybe with a bit of styling. 

Thanks.

shoretyus, (again)

I've taken your advice and re-examined the distance of my elbow from the left side of my body. Holding my hand up and curled around the neck I noticed that moving the elbow out swings the little finger closer to the strings while swinging it in lifts it up and swings the first finger in closer. Of course it didn't take long to determine where to hold it so that my fingers are all an equal distance from the strings. Now to stop some of the rebellious ones from lifting away when I press down with others. Argh!!! Justin calls that common affliction Flying Fingers. Ha ha ha. 

dodgechargerfan,

I think you're right. I should practice both clean and kill-the-adjacent-string(s) fretting. In fact I tried that latter tonight and was noticeably quicker doing the scale I've been practicing the most lately. For now though, to help keep the frustration level down, I'll only practice kill-the-adjacent-string(s) fretting. I'll still be developing a fairly fine control of my fingers that should help when I resume fingertip straight down fretting. And when I'm learning a melody, if a note needs to continue ringing even while the next one(s) is/are being played, well, I can learn to fret those notes in a way that doesn't kill it. Does all of this sound good?

keeperofthegood,

Where are you keeping them? Ha ha ha.

I've already researched wide-nut guitars - and found the Warmoth Custom Guitar Parts site in the process. Actually, at my local Tom Lee's store, they had a $350 acoustic that had a nut nearly as wide as that of a classical guitar. I was tempted to get it - especially since the acoustic that I have cost me $99 (new) five or six years ago. A couple of guitar playing friends checked its action out though and pronounced it fine for learning - so, so far, I haven't bought any of the beautiful guitars I've looked at. I do feel GAS coming on though!

Actually I'm not using an acoustic to learn on. I got an electric, and Fender Mustang I amp, so that I don't torment my neighbors in this early stage of guitar 'playing,' It's a sweet Brown Sunburst Ibanez Artcore AS73 that I got for $235.00. It was tagged at $260 but I got $25 knocked off due to a miniscule scratch at the top of the head. From what I can tell searching the net I got a good price. 

Steadfastly, (again)

Chords C and G7 have been a torment to me! I've given up on learning either at a playable speed for now. I'll get back to them once I have finer control over my fingers. I have started doing finger stretching exercise though. Actually I haven't watched the video yet but I've just started putting my fingertips together and pressing inward to spread them until it hurts a bit. Seems like a good exercise to me that will, in time, allow me to spread my fingers wider.

I am being patient, it is getting easier, (slowly), and I won't give up.

bw66,



> Yup. To quote Phil Dunphy, "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast".
> 
> If you want to play fingerstyle you might as well get used to playing things at a glacial tempo for weeks (and months) until it all comes together.


I like the quote. It makes sense.

As for the glacial tempo comment, well, I know all too well it's going to be a while until I can make my fingers fly up and down the fretboard. So-be-it. Strumming chords just doesn't excite me - though I will get around to learning strumming patterns eventually. I already know I'll have to learn chords even for fingerstyle. C and G7 will be conquered - just not right now.

Thanks again everyone!

JB


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## jburrowes (Apr 8, 2012)

Hmmm. Practicing kill-the-adjacent-string(s) scale fretting some more has made it obvious that I've really built up a lot of muscle memory using the fingertip-straight-down technique. What I was trying to do was come in at an angle so that the underside of each finger kills the lower string and the tip kills the upper string. It's harder than I thought it would be - due to a lack of fine co-ordination and (I guess) the muscle memory I've already developed. I'm having second thoughts about the wisdom of practicing this technique. It is a valuable skill isn't it?

_Having just watched the first of those two finger stretching exercise videos, and scrutinizing the angle that his fingertips are at, it doesn't seem possible that he's not interfering with the next lower string. He must be. Either that or his, and other YouTubers' finger pads, don't spread out as easily as mine. (That's unlikely)._ 

I've also dusted off the John Denver songbook but switched to learning Fly Away instead of Sunshine On My Shoulders. I've a ways to go before I can say that I can play it but at least the first line is recognizable.

By the way can anyone tell me whether the Flying Fingers problem just naturally goes away as one progresses or is it something one has to address directly with targeted practice? It's so annoying watching the rebels pull away while pressing down with some other finger.

JB


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

"How do you get to Carnegie Hall?

Practice. Practice. Practice."


Hang in there. It will take a while to learn all of the different techniques. 

For example, the main reason that I learned to play slide is that I was extremely frustrated at not being able to master barre chords. When I found out that slide was often played in an Open G or Open D tuning, and I could do a barre chord with the slide or one finger, I was all over it.

But eventually I returned to the conventional fretting of a guitar in standard tuning and mastered barre chords.

In my experience, it can be good to walk away from learning a new chord or riff before the frustration levels get too high, then come back to it the next day. Even though you struggled the previous day, the muscle memory has started to implant itself in your brain and said chord/riff becomes a little easier.

Agree with the other posters about learning songs. Try to find one that adds a new chord to the ones that you already know. This way you'll build your knowledge base and stay motivated because you're playing music, not just practicing scales.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

What chords are easy for you ? Sunshine on your shoulders is fairly complicated for a beginner. Are A D G attainable?


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

Remember to always keep your finger movement as minimal as possible. Keep both hand's fingers close to the strings and try to find the easiest ways to play everything. When you shift chords there will sometimes be overlapping fingerings and you can leave one or two fingers where they are, instead of redistributing them all. Sometimes you can just slide a finger up or down a fret, too. Other times you can "pivot" on a finger that has the same fret in common with each chord. For this reason, I like playing an open G chord with my last three fingers instead of the first three fingers. It's easier to go from G to C that way. Your middle two fingers stay in the same configuration and just move up or down a string each, from chord to chord. And you can pivot on the second finger to go to an Em chord, playing it with your two middle fingers.

By the way, there are lots of simple melodies that you can learn fairly readily. Songs like _My Girl_, _(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction_, the intro riff of _Sunshine Of Your Love_ (before he plays the barre chords), and _Smoke On The Water_.

That's how I started out: on electric guitar, playing riffs. 

Easy chord progressions include: _Wild Thing_ (in the key of A), _Horse With No Name_,_ Knocking On Heaven's Door_, and _Leaving On A Jet Plane_.

If you want to learn fingerpicking, you could do worse than picking up some lesson DVDs or whatever from this guy:

[video=youtube_share;WF9xobsf9hw]http://youtu.be/WF9xobsf9hw[/video]

One of my favourite guitarists.  Saw him live way back, in a small basement club in Sydney, Australia. I bought his first couple DVDs of lessons and learnt to play a few of his songs. Not sure if he has any more lessons out now. Here he is performing (video quality kinda sucks):

[video=youtube_share;3k9iTMVzZps]http://youtu.be/3k9iTMVzZps[/video]


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## jburrowes (Apr 8, 2012)

Roryfan,

Thanks for the advice, encouragement and quote(?)

shortyus,

Of the chords I know how to form I guess the easiest are Am, Dm, E, and Em. A is hard because all of my I guess medium sized fingertips can't get close to the fret. C and G7 are hard, not so much to reach, but just to do cleanly without interfering with adjacent strings - C being harder than G7. D is a bit tricky but I can see getting it down without too much trouble.

As for Sunshine On My Shoulders being fairly complicated for a beginner, well, if I tried strumming all of its chords it would be. I'm ignoring them though and practicing the lead(?) melody. Actually, as I mentioned in a previous reply, I'm working on Fly Away right now.

In the key of G, all of the notes on Fly Away's three pages fall within the open position up at the nut. So learning it's pretty much like plucking away at the simple melodies that are typically provided in beginner guitar books - except I love a lot of JD's songs.

This is a link to the book - for any that are interested:

The Best of John Denver: Easy Guitar

Mark P,

Thanks for all the info and tips. I'll very likely reference your reply sometime in the future - as needed.

Tommy Emmanuel is an impressive guitarist for sure. He plays the way I most want to play. Another guy, who I'd actually heard of before beginning this journey, is Jose Feliciano. His rendition of Billy Jean is incredible. What a talent! Very entertaining and inspirational - as is Mark Knopfler and his Sultans of Swing.

Jose Feliciano's Billy Jean

Sultans Of Swing (Live) - Ten minutes of pure listening bliss - even if he does kind of mumble the words. Ha ha.

Oh and those finger stretches I was doing? By pressing the fingers of both hands together and spreading them? Dumb dumb dumb. It put un-necessary stress on the bent-back knuckles. Far better is to stretch them the way that young guy shows in that second video - on the page a couple of you have linked to. I think that I'm already seeing the benefit of doing so.

He also mentioned that, when learning something new, it's good to repeat it twenty times or so. I've started doing that and I'm encouraged by the results. Until now I'd do the chromatic scale maybe five times, up and back, and then move on to something else. Probably because of that habit progress was very slow. Almost unmeasureable it seemed. Yesterday though, before and after work, I did at least fifteen cycles and noticed marked improvement by the end - which made learning the opening to Fly Away a bit easier too.


Anyway thanks again everyone!


JB


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

jburrowes said:


> Another guy, who I'd actually heard of before beginning this journey, is Jose Feliciano. His rendition of Billy Jean is incredible. What a talent!


If you like Billie Jean, and you like guitar (and you don't mind being totally overwhelmed) check out these two guys' arrangements:

[video=youtube;Yk6YRv-0pV8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk6YRv-0pV8[/video]

[video=youtube;e64DJemlUec]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e64DJemlUec[/video]


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

jburrowes said:


> Sultans Of Swing (Live) - Ten minutes of pure listening bliss - even if he does kind of mumble the words. Ha ha.


Mark Knopfler is awesome! His sense of melody always blew me away. So few people have such a strong sense of melody in guitar solos these days. 

Kelly is a Canadian fingerstyle player who has some really cool arrangements (the actual playing starts after a few seconds):

[video=youtube_share;fnZ3zObMfu0]http://youtu.be/fnZ3zObMfu0[/video]


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## jburrowes (Apr 8, 2012)

bw66,

I've never been a fan of Billie Jean as released by MJ but these instrumental arrangements are very nice to listen to - and inspiring. I still prefer Jose's though.

Mark P,

That's a great rendition of Stairway to Heaven by Kelly Valleau. What's that thing that's attached to the guitar (under his right arm)? Any idea?


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

An armrest. Raises your arm off your soundboard for more tone  Well that's what the advertising says, I've not seen one in person though.


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## jburrowes (Apr 8, 2012)

keeperofthegood,

Thanks.


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