# Alternatives to a Blues Junior



## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

I bought a tweed Blues Junior a few months ago, and have tried to love it but keep on coming back to the fact that it's not that good an amp. I have a SFDR to compare it with and it's nowhere near that in sound quality. I hadn't played it for a few weeks and today turned it on and it sounded like a blanket was covering it, muffled and lacking in dynamics of any kind. At louder volume ti's ok, but at home, ugh. I put in a Cannabis Rex when I bought it and a better preamp tube. It was shrill before that. I love the Fender sound...Is there an alternative at even twice the price? Is it worth it to buy a PR?


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

coyoteblue said:


> I bought a tweed Blues Junior a few months ago, and have tried to love it but keep on coming back to the fact that it's not that good an amp. I have a SFDR to compare it with and it's nowhere near that in sound quality. I hadn't played it for a few weeks and today turned it on and it sounded like a blanket was covering it, muffled and lacking in dynamics of any kind. At louder volume ti's ok, but at home, ugh. I put in a Cannabis Rex when I bought it and a better preamp tube. It was shrill before that. I love the Fender sound...Is there an alternative at even twice the price? Is it worth it to buy a PR?


I bought a Pro Junior that had a Cannabis Rex in it. I couldn’t stand it. I had the same problem. It was like a blanket was over it. I put in a Jensen and loved it. I would try a different speaker.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

Kerry Brown said:


> I bought a Pro Junior that had a Cannabis Rex in it. I couldn’t stand it. I had the same problem. It was like a blanket was over it. I put in a Jensen and loved it. I would try a different speaker.


Thanks. The BJ came with a Jensen and it was shrill. Lots of people like the Cannabis Rex. I'll see what else is out there.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Is that Jensen a P12R? If so it's Alnico, low Watt (15W), and will not take dirt well at all. I switched mine with a 90's G12T75 and it made a big difference for my style. RE: Alternative, I can't say much about that other than I took mine into a local Amp guy and he did some Mods that completely and effectively changed the BJ into a pretty nice amp that sounds entirely different than the original. If you haven't yet, check out BillM's BJ mods online. Mine are C4 mods but similar to BillM's.... a few different specs and brands involved.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Dorian2 said:


> Is that Jensen a P12R? If so it's Alnico, low Watt (15W), and will not take dirt well at all. I switched mine with a 90's G12T75 and it made a big difference for my style. RE: Alternative, I can't say much about that other than I took mine into a local Amp guy and he did some Mods that completely and effectively changed the BJ into a pretty nice amp that sounds entirely different than the original. If you haven't yet, check out BillM's BJ mods online. Mine are C4 mods but similar to BillM's.... a few different specs and brands involved.


I got C4 to mod mine too and completely different amp after. Also mine came with a v30 which sounded like crap pre mod, amazing post mod and I tried like 10
Different speakers as well.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

coyoteblue said:


> I have a SFDR to compare it with and it's nowhere near that in sound quality.


Maybe you prefer the sound of 6V6s to EL84s.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

coyoteblue said:


> Is it worth it to buy a PR


You could modify your SFDR to sound similar to a PR...study the schematics and data sheets for both models and determine the changes that have the greatest change towards a PR...implement each mod, one at a time, then test the tone, allowing plenty of warm-up time for the power tubes. It may appear time consuming but it is the most accurate method...your ears are your prime discriminator.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

I love my DR...I was thinking of trading the BJ for a PR. I'll look into getting the BillM mods done.


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## teleboli (Aug 19, 2009)

Do you currently have a DRRI ?


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

If you want _THE _Fender tone, below 20W, buy a Princeton. Anything besides a Princeton, or a clone of it, will fall shy of your goal. The Blues Jr is a fine amp, for a different goal.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

teleboli said:


> Do you currently have a DRRI ?


A 67 DR...one of the first silverfaces.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

coyoteblue said:


> A 67 DR...one of the first silverfaces.


That is a holy grail amp for me.


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

cboutilier said:


> If you want _THE _Fender tone, below 20W, buy a Princeton. Anything besides a Princeton, or a clone of it, will fall shy of your goal. The Blues Jr is a fine amp, for a different goal.


...and the PR bias vary tremolo is to die for!


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

cboutilier said:


> That is a holy grail amp for me.


Yes it's a great amp. I was very lucky to get it after buying and selling two later silvers. This one stays.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

DavidP said:


> ...and the PR bias vary tremolo is to die for!


Are you thinking of the 65ri? That's what appeals to me.


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

What are you not getting out of your DR that you’re trying to find elsewhere? I picked up a PRRI (65) as a smaller alternative to my late 60s 40-watt Fenders. I just find it feels weak compared to what I’m used to. I’ve modded it so it’s working as good as it can. Sounds way better through a 1x12 cab and I play it clean, so basically I’m better off with a DR or my big Bandmaster Reverb through a 1x12 cab.

Now, I did pick up a 15 watt Dr Z and it gave me something totally different that complements my Fenders really well.

But if you really want a PRRI, I’ll be moving mine along, but I don’t see how it would really help someone who already has a DR.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

‘64 Princeton handwired.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Try the Supro Delta King 12. Great alternative to the Blues Junior.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

DavidP said:


> ...and the PR bias vary tremolo is to die for!


This is very true. I intend to add a good bias and/or harmonic trem pedal to my board, as I really miss my bias vary when I play my Super or Twin.


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

coyoteblue said:


> Are you thinking of the 65ri? That's what appeals to me.


My PR is a '73 silverface restored/rebuiilt to blackface spec; never played a reissue.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

DavidP said:


> My PR is a '73 silverface restored/rebuiilt to blackface spec; never played a reissue.
> View attachment 351913


Thats tidy!


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## Alistair6 (Jul 9, 2007)

Slightly outside true fender but I’ve got a bad cat classic cat r.. tweedish.. it’s a stellar amp. Grabbed it used. Might be worth checking out


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Is a YGL1 below your standards or too "cheap" looking?

It's in the same wattage range and I enjpy mine, especially after a speaker swap.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Sell the Blues Jr and just use the Deluxe Reverb.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

DavidP said:


> My PR is a '73 silverface restored/rebuiilt to blackface spec; never played a reissue.
> View attachment 351913


Nice. Hard to come by.these days.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

butterknucket said:


> Sell the Blues Jr and just use the Deluxe Reverb.





butterknucket said:


> Sell the Blues Jr and just use the Deluxe Reverb.


I mostly play the DR, but want a smaller amp for other purposes.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

sulphur said:


> Is a YGL1 below your standards or too "cheap" looking?
> 
> It's in the same wattage range and I enjpy mine, especially after a speaker swap.


Good amps for sure, but not a fan of the look.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

Jalexander said:


> What are you not getting out of your DR that you’re trying to find elsewhere? I picked up a PRRI (65) as a smaller alternative to my late 60s 40-watt Fenders. I just find it feels weak compared to what I’m used to. I’ve modded it so it’s working as good as it can. Sounds way better through a 1x12 cab and I play it clean, so basically I’m better off with a DR or my big Bandmaster Reverb through a 1x12 cab.
> 
> Now, I did pick up a 15 watt Dr Z and it gave me something totally different that complements my Fenders really well.
> 
> But if you really want a PRRI, I’ll be moving mine along, but I don’t see how it would really help someone who already has a DR.


Nothing lacking in the DR..I guess my post was unclear. .I just want a second, smaller amp for other purposes and not feeling great about the Blues Junior.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

Chito said:


> Try the Supro Delta King 12. Great alternative to the Blues Junior.


Will check it out. Thx.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

Alistair6 said:


> Slightly outside true fender but I’ve got a bad cat classic cat r.. tweedish.. it’s a stellar amp. Grabbed it used. Might be worth checking out


Will do. Thx.


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

I tried one and thought it was trash I told the one from long and McQuade that too. They where surprised. But as all ready stated I bet if you changed the speaker it be a good amp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

YCV20WR


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## Sunny1433 (Nov 23, 2018)

There's a black star artist 15 for sale still I think. I sold my blues junior for that amp. A lot more tweak ability, clean headroom and tighter bass. I've tried quite a few 15watt amps and I think that the artist 15 is honestly one of the best out there.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Makes me laugh that every thread on the Blues Junior is filled with awe as how good an amp it is. But it is also filled with as many post, if not more, about how there's always something that needs to be modified for it to sound good.

Not what I'd call a good amp. A good kit maybe ...


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Sunny1433 said:


> There's a black star artist 15 for sale still I think. I sold my blues junior for that amp. A lot more tweak ability, clean headroom and tighter bass. I've tried quite a few 15watt amps and I think that the artist 15 is honestly one of the best out there.


Talking about tweakability, this is one versatile amp. No need for the cat tweak, but it helps ...


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## Mikev7305 (Jan 6, 2020)

@BGood, which do you like better between the ycv20 and the rebel 30?


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Mikev7305 said:


> @BGood, which do you like better between the ycv20 and the rebel 30?


I've owned both - YCV20. The Rebel 30 is too loud.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

@TimH has a PRRI w/ 12" speaker up right now for $1K. I've had that same model and you cannot get a better Fender sound for the price IMO. The 12" makes all the difference...that speaker is also a C-Rex however.

*UPDATE*: @TimH _had_ that amp available. Already sold!


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## Shaqrad (May 6, 2020)

I ended up doing some of the Billm mods on my blues junior when I had one and it helped the sound quite a bit. I had a Jenson speaker in it and switched to a 70/80, either speaker sounded good with the mods. If your half decent with a soldering iron they're not too difficult but I will say Billm's website has been down for a bit now. It was active for a bit after he passed away but it looks like his son stopped running it because the site is down now.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

BGood said:


> Makes me laugh that every thread on the Blues Junior is filled with awe as how good an amp it is. But it is also filled with as many post, if not more, about how there's always something that needs to be modified for it to sound good.
> 
> Not what I'd call a good amp. A good kit maybe ...


That's a fair point for sure. The whole mod thing worked out well for me both amp sound and price wise luckily. I do get why people wouldn't be happy with the amp though. Everyone has a different sound.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

Build yourself a 5E3 clone.
I guarantee it won't sound like there's a blanket over the amp.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

BGood said:


> Makes me laugh that every thread on the Blues Junior is filled with awe as how good an amp it is. But it is also filled with as many post, if not more, about how there's always something that needs to be modified for it to sound good.
> 
> Not what I'd call a good amp. A good kit maybe ...
> [/QUOT
> ...





BMW-KTM said:


> Build yourself a 5E3 clone.
> I guarantee it won't sound like there's a blanket over the amp.


I might well do that. There's a local builder, Jeremy Spencley, who makes, from what I've heard, some great 5e3s.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Mikev7305 said:


> @BGood, which do you like better between the ycv20 and the rebel 30?


I traded the YCV20 for the Rebel. No dice, the Rebel wins all the way. The Traynor gain structure is way too fuzz oriented for me. I tried everything to tame it, didn't work.

The Rebel is a Swiss knife of tone. The clean channel is to die for. The gain channel you can shape indefinitively. Too loud ? Not really, just don't crank it, the tone is all there. It is very good in the Billy Gibbons tonal palette, which covers a lot.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

I notice that the Blues Junior is fixed-bias. You could try cathode-bias on the output tubes...a common resistor with no bypassing and then try with a low value by-pass cap...you may like the tone, especially when you are pushing the output tubes.


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## 5732 (Jul 30, 2009)

I have a Traynor YGL1, Traynor YCV15, Traynor YGM3, and a 5E3 clone with a reverb/trem pedal. All less than 20 watts and all good alternatives to the Blues Jr.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Blues Junior seems to be the Honda Civic of guitar amps. Makes guitar sounds, great resale value, lots of aftermarket accessories. Makes me wonder if anyone buys them because they like the sound? (Disclaimer - I've never played one)


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

BlueRocker said:


> Blues Junior seems to be the Honda Civic of guitar amps. Makes guitar sounds, great resale value, lots of aftermarket accessories. Makes me wonder if anyone buys them because they like the sound? (Disclaimer - I've never played one)


I find them to be a reliable, small stature, reasonable volume pedal platform.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Of coarse the deluxe reverb will sound better . It is three times the price.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Blues Junior came up on Facebook today for $225. I was too slow on the draw though.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

mud_guy said:


> I have a Traynor YGL1, Traynor YCV15, Traynor YGM3, and a 5E3 clone with a reverb/trem pedal. All less than 20 watts and all good alternatives to the Blues Jr.


I am curious how my YCV20 sizes up to a Blues Jr.?


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

In case I missed it, what exactly are you wanting in another amp?


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## gitapik (Aug 5, 2016)

I live near where BillM lived (RIP, Bill). He was nice enough to let me drive over and A/B my stock tweed blues Junior to two of his fully modded units. One of them was 15w and the other was 30w

There was a definite difference between these units and my stock. I chose the 30w because I love clean tones and the extra headroom. What was a nice beater amp became a barebones boutique. Here are the mods I had done:

Basic mods, cream board
Presence control
Clean Boost
Audio-taper reverb control
Audio-taper master volume
Switchcraft input jack
Standby/Power switch
Line out jack
Cathode follower mod
Jewel pilot lens/LED conversion
Heyboer TO26 (includes aux)
TP24 power transformer
Octal conversion
JJ 6L6GC, burned in, matched
Bias Board
Footswitch pedal with LEDs

I love this amp. The combo of the original used price plus the mods put it at $900..,but that’s less than a DRRI, which, though a different amp, is no better.

Both Egnators, the Traynor, and Princeton (are you looking mainly for clean tones?) are great alternatives. I have another that might surprise:

The Quilter MicroPro Mach 2 with the 8” speaker is a wonderful amp. Not cheap...especially when you add the full size foot switch. But it covers a LOT of bases very well, sounds great at any volume, and weighs 19lbs. I bought mine knowing I could return it and...well...: I didn’t. 😊


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

butterknucket said:


> In case I missed it, what exactly are you wanting in another amp?


AS I said in my first post, one that doesn't sound like it has a blanket covering it, one that has some depth. The BJ was pleasing at first but the more I played it the less I liked it.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

butterknucket said:


> In case I missed it, what exactly are you wanting in another amp?


Like anyone, a sound that pleases me, not one that makes me sigh when I turn it on. As I said initially, the BJ sounds dull at most times, unless cranked. I liked it at first.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

Distortion said:


> Of coarse the deluxe reverb will sound better . It is three times the price.


Not to quibble, but less than twice as much, unless you're referring to 70s model. But you're right in suggesting you get what you pay for.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

coyoteblue said:


> AS I said in my first post, one that doesn't sound like it has a blanket covering it, one that has some depth. The BJ was pleasing at first but the more I played it the less I liked it.


I see. My question was regarding what specific sound or style do you want, as in Tweed Fender, Blackface Fender, Vox, non master volume Marshall, master volume Marshall, Boogie, etc. I'm not a fan of the Blues Jr myself.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

butterknucket said:


> I see. My question was regarding what specific sound or style do you want, as in Tweed Fender, Blackface Fender, Vox, non master volume Marshall, master volume Marshall, Boogie, etc. I'm not a fan of the Blues Jr myself.


I love the Fender sound so I was looking for a variation on that theme, which the BJ is, or something else that has some mojo, something good for bluesy rock. I'm thinking at less than $1k, I have to adjust my expectations. Since posting I tried a PRRI with a 12" Cannabis Rex. Nice, but not very balanced...the bottom end is too big for my tastes, and this amp lists for $500 more than the BJ. I'm thinking of going for a 5e3 as a contrast to my DR.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

coyoteblue said:


> I love the Fender sound so I was looking for a variation on that theme, which the BJ is, or something else that has some mojo, something good for bluesy rock. I'm thinking at less than $1k, I have to adjust my expectations. Since posting I tried a PRRI with a 12" Cannabis Rex. Nice, but not very balanced...the bottom end is too big for my tastes, and this amp lists for $500 more than the BJ. I'm thinking of going for a 5e3 as a contrast to my DR.


Within the realm of Fender, there's a lot of different eras and sounds. A Tweed Deluxe or 5e3 will sound nicer than the Blues Jr for sure, but it will still have a bit of a boxey sound at low volumes, because it is more of a compressed sound (I have a lof of experience with vintage Fenders). You might be best to just stick with the Deluxe Reverb for now and really try a lot of amps with no rush to buy in the meantime.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

butterknucket said:


> Within the realm of Fender, there's a lot of different eras and sounds. A Tweed Deluxe or 5e3 will sound nicer than the Blues Jr for sure, but it will still have a bit of a boxey sound at low volumes, because it is more of a compressed sound (I have a lof of experience with vintage Fenders). You might be best to just stick with the Deluxe Reverb for now and really try a lot of amps with no rush to buy in the meantime.


Thanks for the advice. There's a used 57 Custom Deluxe at the local L&M that I may go for. Like new and $1K below list. It has a pretty nice clean at low volumes. Killer cranked. Very balanced, and lighter than a Blues Junior and none of the grating high end. What's your take on it?


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

coyoteblue said:


> Thanks for the advice. There's a used 57 Custom Deluxe at the local L&M that I may go for. Like new and $1K below list. It has a pretty nice clean at low volumes. Killer cranked. Very balanced, and lighter than a Blues Junior and none of the grating high end. What's your take on it?


The Tweed Deluxe and the Deluxe Reverb are two totally different animals. For Tweed Deluxe sounds, think the Eagles more distorted sounds in the 70's, or Neil Young Rest never sleeps. The Deluxe Reverb is much more open and airy sounding, but you already know that. I haven't tried the 57 Custom Deluxe, but I've owned or played a lot of original Tweed Fenders which are very different from the Blackface and Silverface Fenders. If you can, try out the 57 and see what you think, but I don't think it's what you're wanting.


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## gitapik (Aug 5, 2016)

At the $1000 mark I’d suggest getting all the mods I listed. Bill and his son weren’t/aren’t the only ones doing them. My BJr sounds wonderful. No blanket covering it. 

Buf that requires a leap of faith that I wouldn’t have made, myself, if I hadn’t been able to drive over and check them out, first. 

And at around the $1000 mark you can get that Quilter Micro Pro Mark 2 8”. Such a full sound for such a little amp. There are a lot of beautiful Fender tones in there. I’ve been all about tube amps for decades, but with the return option in mind, I took a chance on a friend’s suggestion and was not disappointed.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

If I were you, I'd be looking at Tweed Deluxe, or Harvard, or an 18W Marshall. The only thing the Princeton will give you over your Deluxe is the different trem. The PR isn't much quieter than a Deluxe, and I find the breakup to be inferior anyways. I'd be looking for some quality tones, in a complementary flavour.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

Distortion said:


> Of coarse the deluxe reverb will sound better . It is three times the price.


So it's a bargain then, seeing as how it's four times the amp but only three times the price.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

coyoteblue said:


> Thanks for the advice. There's a used 57 Custom Deluxe at the local L&M that I may go for. Like new and $1K below list. It has a pretty nice clean at low volumes. Killer cranked. Very balanced, and lighter than a Blues Junior and none of the grating high end. What's your take on it?





gitapik said:


> I live near where BillM lived (RIP, Bill). He was nice enough to let me drive over and A/B my stock tweed blues Junior to two of his fully modded units. One of them was 15w and the other was 30w
> 
> There was a definite difference between these units and my stock. I chose the 30w because I love clean tones and the extra headroom. What was a nice beater amp became a barebones boutique. Here are the mods I had done:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the mod info and the suggestions. I'm thinking tweed right now because I like the Fender sound and a tweed will conrtast with my DR. I'll check out Quilters if I ever see one!


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

cboutilier said:


> If I were you, I'd be looking at Tweed Deluxe, or Harvard, or an 18W Marshall. The only thing the Princeton will give you over your Deluxe is the different trem. The PR isn't much quieter than a Deluxe, and I find the breakup to be inferior anyways. I'd be looking for some quality tones, in a complementary flavour.


Yes, it's a tweed I'm looking at. A good deal on a 57 custom deluxe is at my local L&M. As you say, a nice contrast with the DR.


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## coyoteblue (Feb 8, 2006)

gitapik said:


> At the $1000 mark I’d suggest getting all the mods I listed. Bill and his son weren’t/aren’t the only ones doing them. My BJr sounds wonderful. No blanket covering it.
> 
> Buf that requires a leap of faith that I wouldn’t have made, myself, if I hadn’t been able to drive over and check them out, first.
> 
> And at around the $1000 mark you can get that Quilter Micro Pro Mark 2 8”. Such a full sound for such a little amp. There are a lot of beautiful Fender tones in there. I’ve been all about tube amps for decades, but with the return option in mind, I took a chance on a friend’s suggestion and was not disappointed.


Yes, I'd like to hear the amp with the mods before investing. If the tweed I'm thinking of getting doesn't pan out, I will investigate further.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

coyoteblue said:


> Yes, it's a tweed I'm looking at. A good deal on a 57 custom deluxe is at my local L&M. As you say, a nice contrast with the DR.


I'm convinced that the Tweed Deluxe is incapable of delivering a bad tone


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