# How hard is it to change a pedal footswitch? Also, are some made better than others?



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

My Timmy's footswitch is broke again  Last time I paid a guy to do it, but I thought I could maybe take a stab at it given Covid. Also, I have another pedal here with a busted switch so I would rather learn instead of paying for several fixes. So, how hard is it to replace? I have a soldering iron but I am quite a novice.

Are there good and bad switches? I have seen one switch selling for $22 on Stew Mac! For my one cheap pedal, I can almost by another one for that cost. I also see other for only a couple of bucks. I don't want this to keep happening so I am willing to spend a bit more for a better switch, but I don't want to waste money of fairy dust and snake oil.

Any thoughts?

TG


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

pretty sure 99% of them are made in China


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Any chance of a pic of the inside of the pedal?

Anything like this? (to save you the hassle of taking and posting a pic)


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

It's going to be PC mounted IIRC, so you need to make sure you get the correct style as well.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Here are some pics of the cheaper pedal. I haven't opened the Timmy yet:


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

easy fix. heat and a solder sucker should make short work of that. pop a new one in and resolder, just go easy on the heat as the plastic switch can melt

edit,. I see now that you posted a pedal but not the Timmy in the above picture. the Timmy is going to be a little tougher with all the individual wires/jumpers and if you want it to the same aesthetics it is going to take some time and effort


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Please don't take this the wrong way, but how are you breaking all these pedal switches?

Three switches?

I don't think I've ever broken one.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way, but how are you breaking all these pedal switches?
> 
> Three switches?
> 
> I don't think I've ever broken one.


Absolutely normal use. Mostly in home, no shoes, not stomping aggressively. My most used pedals get stomped on a lot, and it is a grand total of three switches in 10 years. I don't think switch failure is that uncommon.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

This is a Timmy, right?



greco said:


> Any chance of a pic of the inside of the pedal?
> 
> Anything like this? (to save you the hassle of taking and posting a pic)


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

traynor_garnet said:


> This is a Timmy, right?


thats a Timmy


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> Absolutely normal use. Mostly in home, no shoes, not stomping aggressively. My most used pedals get stomped on a lot, and it is a grand total of three switches in 10 years. I don't think switch failure is that uncommon.



Maybe I just never kept any pedal long enough to wear out the switch.

Still, I guess I've been lucky. I've surely stepped on a lot of switches over the years.

If it's like the image Greco posted, it looks pretty straightforward.

Good luck.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Timmy:


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## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

I had a switch acting up on a higher end pedal. Deoxit worked a couple of times. The third time, upon further examination under the lighted magnifying glass, I could see what looked like hairs sticking out of the switch.

I carefully lifted the tabs keeping the switch together, and disassembled the quirky, springy guts. I pulled out 3 long hairs about 8 to 10" long, then placed everything back together. It didn't look like the components in the switch had a specific way to be in that switch, but I gave it a shot. 

Still works to this day. No idea how those hairs got inside that switch.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

As far as simply replacing that switch with one just like it, I think that's a job most of us can do at home, but I'm hoping one of our more electronically oriented members may be able to suggest something that will hold up better.

Most switches at mechanical. Those I would assume are more prone to damage.

Some are (I know I'll use incorrect terminology but) FET style and they bottom out but there's no "click".

I'm wondering if that's an option.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Please confirm that you need on-on latching (I'm not sure) and then consider this??
Footswitch - Premium 3PDT On-On Latching (solder)

@jbealsmusic (Jon) can certainly help you to select from what he has available.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

If large commercial clients experienced as many switch failures as hobbyists do, the companies that make the switches would have gone out of business long ago. The failures are almost entirely a function of how the switches are soldered and installed.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

vadsy said:


> easy fix. heat and a solder sucker should make short work of that. pop a new one in and resolder, just go easy on the heat as the plastic switch can melt
> 
> edit,. I see now that you posted a pedal but not the Timmy in the above picture. the Timmy is going to be a little tougher with all the individual wires/jumpers and if you want it to the same aesthetics it is going to take some time and effort


Disagree; PCB mounted switches are a pain. Not for noobs. Those are normal solder tabs in there not even PCB pins; take a shit tonne of solder and you can't suck from the top side cuz the switch body is in the way. Can be done but will take a while and, especially for a noob, there will be large risk of lifting PCB traces.



greco said:


> Please confirm that you need on-on latching (I'm not sure) and then consider this??
> Footswitch - Premium 3PDT On-On Latching (solder)
> 
> @jbealsmusic (Jon) can certainly help you to select from what he has available.


If it's 3p3T (as in the pics of both pedals; 9 terminals) then it is latching. All 3PDT stomps are On-On (can't have on-off-on except with a toggle). Mostly only digi pedals (and ones with optical or relay bypassing, like anything in the last few years from Earthquaker) are momentary (and those would be SPDT). Also vintage stuff with no LED.



traynor_garnet said:


> My Timmy's footswitch is broke again  Last time I paid a guy to do it, but I thought I could maybe take a stab at it given Covid. Also, I have another pedal here with a busted switch so I would rather learn instead of paying for several fixes. So, how hard is it to replace? I have a soldering iron but I am quite a novice.
> 
> Are there good and bad switches? I have seen one switch selling for $22 on Stew Mac! For my one cheap pedal, I can almost by another one for that cost. I also see other for only a couple of bucks. I don't want this to keep happening so I am willing to spend a bit more for a better switch, but I don't want to waste money of fairy dust and snake oil.
> 
> ...


Yes there are better and worse switches. The current standard is pretty good; those made in Asia (not always China) ones like in both yer pedals (Taiway or, more often, copies thereof). They do occasionally fail (or why would you be replacing them). Old style 'XWings" are shittier but you can't use them here anyways (and I haven't seen them for sale anywhere I shop in a long time anyway). There are better ones (much more expensive) and they are better but you can't use them for PCB mount (you could put one in the Timmy). Better in terms of being quieter (the actuation click) and being rated for many more cycles (last longer)... also gold terminals but whatever.

Like these ones: Super Premium 3PDT Latched Foot Switch - Soft Click

I've used those exact ones in a coupla builds and they are better (jury still out on long term reliability - not been that long yet). Considering the price difference I am not sure it's worth it.

Old Style Carlings are also probably better quality but they don't come in 3PDT format as you require.

Since the PCB mount one is such a pain I recommend testing it first - got a multimeter? Problem could be something else. If you can do that test em both before you waste time or money. Generally I am skeptical that your switches are failing that often. I don't quite agree with @mhammer though; there are shitty generic switches out there that will fail sooner and more often. The companies survive because you can't tell them apart from the other blue box jobbies (which also come in other colours, but I mean that type of sealed stomp switch). Like Switchcraft XLR jacks vs generic copies; look the same but some of the generics are complete shit; they still make em though cuz people buy them because they look like Switchcrafts. Even cable makers (knowingly - looking at you 90s Yorkville; I fogive you cuz ya did smarten up later) buy them - they last long enough for you to sell someone a cable.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Disagree; PCB mounted switches are a pain. Not for noobs. Those are normal solder tabs in there not even PCB pins; take a shit tonne of solder and you can't suck from the top side cuz the switch body is in the way. Can be done but will take a while and, especially for a noob, there will be large risk of lifting PCB traces.


with the right replacement parts and tools I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the job to a do-it-yourselfer, even if they are a noob


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The switches don't fail because of the mechanism or internals. They fail because people apply too much heat when soldering. I recently bought some 3PDT stomps from Nextgen that were on special. Jon warned me that the epoxy that the solder lugs are embedded in on those switches seemed to melt very easily. I took my chances and bought a half dozen. The contact were nice and shiny so I wasn't concerned about being able to do a quick in-and-out when soldering the wires, making sure to leave a little time between solder joints. One of the six, however, ended up softening around a middle lug, making it a usable DPDT with one set of contacts rendered useless because a solder lug was wobbly.

So I suppose I'll relent a little and say that some switches are below spec. But the thing is that the failure, in this instance, was at the time of intallation, not after some period of use. The internals are the same. What can differ is the thermal stability of the epoxy, and whether more grease is inside than is necessary. But BOTH result in a failing switch as a function of the application of too much soldering iron heat.

Watch the video. Switches can be rehabilitated fairly easily.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

mhammer said:


> The switches don't fail because of the mechanism or internals. They fail because people apply too much heat when soldering. I recently bought some 3PDT stomps from Nextgen that were on special. Jon warned me that the epoxy that the solder lugs are embedded in on those switches seemed to melt very easily. I took my chances and bought a half dozen. The contact were nice and shiny so I wasn't concerned about being able to do a quick in-and-out when soldering the wires, making sure to leave a little time between solder joints. One of the five, however, ended up softening around a middle lug, making it a usable DPDT with one set of contacts rendered useless because a solder lug was wobbly.
> 
> So I suppose I'll relent a little and say that some switches are below spec. But the thing is that the failure, in this instance, was at the time of intallation, not after some period of use. The internals are the same. What can differ is the thermal stability of the epoxy, and whether more grease is inside than is necessary. But BOTH result in a failing switch as a function of the application of too much soldering iron heat.
> 
> Watch the video. Switches can be rehabilitated fairly easily.


Agreed,that installation can cause failure, but there's more then just the epoxy and grease that can be different. The quality of the internals can vary (e.g. materials used, especially the metal bits). Anyway, no need to argue it to death; shit happens.

Yes switches can be rehabbed, on the plus side, without desoldering them from the pedal, but there are risks there and they will likely fail again in short order. That may be a good option for the PCB mounted one though, not just cuz then don't have to remove it, but also because the switch will be held together by being sandwiched between the pcb and the enclosure.



vadsy said:


> with the right replacement parts and tools I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the job to a do-it-yourselfer, even if they are a noob


I'm not saying not possible, saying a pain and risky. At least start with the Timmy to practice up. They key is adding fresh solder to the joint to get it to go all liquid real quick with as little prolonged heat as possible before sucking. You may have to reheat/suck out each solder tab 2-4 times.

What makes it hard (vs a resistor or any other 2 leg component) is that you can't pull the tab out while wet (and then clean out the hole afterwards); the other 8 hold the part in place. You actually have to suck out ALL the solder or the thing won't move.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

mhammer said:


> The switches don't fail because of the mechanism or internals. They fail because people apply too much heat when soldering.


you've said this more than once and I disagree. I say this at the risk of getting a stern talking to from greco about how dare I question the mhammer but in my experience the majority of the time a switch fails is because of the internals


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@vadsy How dare you question mhammer!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

vadsy said:


> you've said this more than once and I disagree. I say this at the risk of getting a stern talking to from greco about how dare I question the mhammer but in my experience the majority of the time a switch fails is because of the internals


Ask yourself how long a company could survive making stompswitches that have the failure rate claimed by hobbyists and tinkerers. It's not exactly a business one can engage in on the cheap. The switches we get are generally no different than what a significant number of "name" pedal manufacturers use. They don't want to have to do repairs, and wouldn't want to use components that would invite repairs or on-line flaming. Take a stompswitch apart. They're all the same internally, and the mechanism is identical. I imagine there are switches made at higher cost, with a smoother plunger mechanism, made to tighter tolerance, but that's purely feel, and has nothing to do with the internal mechanism of changing from this contact to that one.

You can feel free to question me as much as you want. I'm not questioning what I see when I take a functioning *and *a failing switch apart.

I will also note that some pedal-makers situate their stompswitch too high or too far from the side edge of the enclosure. That can result in the pedal almost requiring the user to apply lateral pressure when actuating it that places stress on the switch. Ideally, it should be pressed down, at a 90 degree angle from the installation surface, like a piston. If the location and installed height of the switch is off, the user may be obliged to push it at an 85 or even 80-degree angle, which isn't good for it. Even supposedly high-end switches can get wobbly from misuse. But that's not different internals, or defective internals. That's misapplication damaging or loosening the internals.

I've had switches I've used for a while crap out on me. I take it apart, wipe the excess grease off, and the switch works again, flawlessly without subsequent failure. How could that happen? Soldering heat the grease by contact. The grease flowed and went where it shouldn't. Over time, it moves. Take it away, and the mechanism is fine.

But in the spirit of fairness, just what is it about "the internals" that you either believe, or see, failing?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> But in the spirit of fairness, just what is it about "the internals" that you either believe, or see, failing?


@vadsy "You're up"..and this better be good!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It doesn't have to be "good", Dave, just realistic. Every day I learn about something I've never ever seen before, and never expected. I'm open.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Ask yourself how long a company could survive making stompswitches that have the failure rate claimed by hobbyists and tinkerers. It's not exactly a business one can engage in on the cheap. The switches we get are generally no different than what a significant number of "name" pedal manufacturers use. They don't want to have to do repairs, and wouldn't want to use components that would invite repairs or on-line flaming. Take a stompswitch apart. They're all the same internally, and the mechanism is identical. I imagine there are switches made at higher cost, with a smoother plunger mechanism, made to tighter tolerance, but that's purely feel, and has nothing to do with the internal mechanism of changing from this contact to that one.
> 
> You can feel free to question me as much as you want. I'm not questioning what I see when I take a functioning *and *a failing switch apart.
> 
> ...


grease leaking down to the mechanism doesn't make the switch fail, in fact it probably helps prolong life. on/off pivot points that rock back and forth do fail and that is from foot use but that takes time. that time may vary on the user and frequency. if you solder it like a goof and melt the pins you'll either see it right away or know soon enough. of course that is just what I'm seeing, don't have the whole 'I've been doing this my whole life, trust me' to rest on and throw up whenever its convenient


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> It doesn't have to be "good", Dave, just realistic. Every day I learn about something I've never ever seen before, and never expected. I'm open.


I was just teasing @vadsy. He owes me.
In addition, I have always recognized your admirable quality of being open and ready/willing to learn.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

greco said:


> I was just teasing @vadsy. He owes me.
> In addition, I have always recognized your admirable quality of being open and ready/willing to learn.


thanks, mate!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

vadsy said:


> what the fuck did you call me?


????


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

greco said:


> ????


I'm just goofing with you. I'll correct my post but you have to leave the quote intact


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

vadsy said:


> grease leaking down to the mechanism doesn't make the switch fail, in fact it probably helps prolong life. on/off pivot points that rock back and forth do fail and that is from foot use but that takes time. that time may vary on the user and frequency. if you solder it like a goof and melt the pins you'll either see it right away or know soon enough. of course that is just what I'm seeing, don't have the whole 'I've been doing this my whole life, trust me' to rest on and throw up whenever its convenient


I don't know how it would prolong life. What I see is that it ends up being an insulator, instead of the lubricant and damper it is_ supposed_ to be, and was inserted in order to be. If the user can make a decent solder joint quickly, and doesn't apply too much heat for too long, the grease stays where it is supposed to and _does_ what it is supposed to. If someone is trying to solder a tarnished and untinned wire lead to a tarnished and untinned lug, they end up applying heat for too long, the heat gets transferred from the part of the lug we can see through to the rest of that contact on the inside and the grease liquifies and flows onto the parts of the contacts where it wasn't supposed to go. Commercial pedal-makers get in mountains of switches and go through them quickly, such that the lugs are nice and shiny and welcoming of solder. Hobbyists and part-time repair folks (and I count myself among them) can have switches hanging around for a while and eventually getting tarnished. I often have to scrape the tarnish off with a blade before I attempt to solder. If I didn't, I know I'd probably ruin the switch.

Yes, there IS melting of the epoxy around the lugs, that renders them unstable, and yes one will _certainly_ notice it right away, and yes that is most definitely a cheap, substandard, and probably off-spec switch. But when the outside of the switch looks perfectly fine, the solder joints look perfectly fine, and the switch isn't functioning properly or reliably, the odds are MUCH higher that there is grease on those banana-shaped rocker contacts, and no other physical damage inside or outside the switch. Stompswitches CAN be broken, but the preponderance of failures are completely spontaneous. Not just the ones I've experienced, but the ones reported on the stompbox forum as well. The switch was working fine, then it wasn't. Nothing is loose or shaky or rattling. NO Defensive tackle wearing Doc Maartens decided to take out their frustrations on it. It just stopped working, or provides intermittent contact; i.e., you have to step on it a couple of times to engage it. I have some switches that have a partial insulation, such that effect may be much quieter than bypass. Again, you take it apart, clean the rocker contact, reassemble, and it works properly again.

It probably CAN happen that too _much_ grease is inserted at the factory. That would be a matter of quality control. And t would exacerbate the impact of too much heat.

Pretty much every factory turns out a bad batch of something eventually. You probably saw the thread from last year or the year before, where zdogma brought me his Diamond Memory Lane to fix, and we found that Diamond had unknowingly received a batch of name brand voltage regulators from a reliable distributor, only to find after the pedals were built and sold that batch was off spec and had heat fins that were too thin to dissipate heat properly. They'd overheat after the pedal was on for 10 minutes, drift off-spec and the pedal would start whining.

I've blathered on about the grease-flow issue before on other forums. And if the folks on the DIYstompbox forum with formal EE training, substantial industry experience, and 20x more bench experience than I'll ever acquire, have not seen fit to tell me I'm wrong, then I think I'm probably right. When Steve Daniels, who sells thousands and thousands of them to commercial clients and hobbyists through Small Bear doesn't tell me I'm wrong, I figure I'm probably right. I trust them.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

But the OP asked two questions. How hard is it to _change_ a footswitch? Not that hard. If you are unsoldering the wire, rather than snipping it, or if the switch is soldered to the circuit board, be careful to leave a little time between the heating of each solder lug, so that, after you remove the solder the board and/or switch has the opportunity to cool down somewhat. You don't want too much cumulative heat occurring.

Some folks like solder suckers. I used to use them, and still do. I'm finding more and more that I prefer solder wick. It can get in places where consumer-grade solder suckers aren't so good at.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

mhammer said:


> Ask yourself how long a company could survive making stompswitches that have the failure rate claimed by hobbyists and tinkerers. It's not exactly a business one can engage in on the cheap.


I think I outlined how that is actually not so far fetched, it doesn't even take that much imagination. I just think that what you claim to be a near singular dominant cause is quite so singular, though a significant contributor. These switches are at the point of being very generic; youre not getting the things from the same manufacturer each time, and they're not even branded so you don't know exactly who the manufacturer is each time to compare and be selective. You yourself mentioned the weird batch you got one time.




mhammer said:


> The switches we get are generally no different than what a significant number of "name" pedal manufacturers use. They don't want to have to do repairs, and wouldn't want to use components that would invite repairs or on-line flaming.


And even they do get bad batches of components occasionally. The usual suspects learn how to minimise that, but the desire to have good parts is only one side of the story. 



mhammer said:


> Take a stompswitch apart. They're all the same internally, and the mechanism is identical. I imagine there are switches made at higher cost, with a smoother plunger mechanism, made to tighter tolerance, but that's purely feel, and has nothing to do with the internal mechanism of changing from this contact to that one.


You've made my point for me. Yes, all the same design, but the difference is in the execution. Larger pedal makers can afford to stick to trusted sources; smaller ones and hobbyists sometimes take more risk on trying out sources. There's more complexity here than you are allowing for in your narrative.




mhammer said:


> I will also note that some pedal-makers situate their stompswitch too high or too far from the side edge of the enclosure.


Amen brother. Though I have some other reasons for that sentiment in addition to yours.




mhammer said:


> But in the spirit of fairness, just what is it about "the internals" that you either believe, or see, failing?


Lots of things and no one thing. A bit of a shut down argument because you know that none of us have taken enough of them apart, but going by analog to more open types of similar devices (1/4" jacks and other types of open switches), there's the quality and gauge of metal used. You yourself have mentioned the epoxy and the amount of grease (the type of grease and temp stability would also be a thing just like with the epoxy). The specifics aren't actually that important, and I do agree that, for the most part, they are reasonably reliable devices. Just sometimes though, there's some wonkier ones. There are economic forces at play to deliver cheaper parts and corners are sometimes cut , we _know_ this. We've seen it happen with other things (cable jacks are a great example). The main issue here is frame of reference; you look at it from a wholesale buyer's perspective vs the other, end consumer perspective (of the switches, low qty buyers, not talking about built pedals here) and the intermediaries that serve them and not the bigger guys as much. The companies that make these feed both of those segments of the market. The main problem in this debate, as stated above, is not actually having any idea what you're buying due to lack of any branding or even "made in..." 1 rotten apple spoils the bunch.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

3PDT stompswitches are essentially the "gift" of Mike Fuller, whose purchase power, coupled with the flowering of the true bypass frenzy in the mid-'90s, resulted in him being able to get a manufacturer to make them for him on special order. Prior to that, they hadn't really existed in any degree of availability, simply because their purpose for existing would have been very rare. I know one would not have seen them in any Mouser, Digikey, Jameco, Allied, or Electrosonic catalog. Mike popularized them, and the demand resulted in greater production and successively lower price. In 1992 I was paying [email protected] for a new DPDT stompswitch. Granted, they were Carling, which made them a little pricier. Fulltone's use of 3PDT was a game-changer (and not a hydroxychloroquin "game changer").

Is there more than one manufacturer at this point? Probably; same way that Hammond is not the only one making Hammond-style boxes. But, similar to the cast aluminum boxes, there probably aren't a LOT of switch manufacturers. And I doubt that those manufacturers that do exist are cranking out 3PDTs with different specs, the way that a food processing company might churn out higher-spec orange juice for brand X with less rind, and cheaper stuff for brand Y where they exert less quality-control. There's just not a lot one can do differently when it comes to switches, and if there is, you can expect it to contribute to a noticeably higher retail price for the completed pedal. If the pedal costs you $150 or less, it's probably the same quality stompswitch that you and I can buy for well under $5 a pop, and likely from the same switch-maker. Apart from digital pedals using fancy DSP chips, the switches are generally the 2nd most costly component in production, next to the enclosure.

There CAN be a batch with flimsier epoxy, but AFAIK Jon was clearing those cheaply because they came from a manufacturer whose switches were normally much hardier, not because he took a chance on a fly-by-night manufacturer offering a cheap product. I bought 6, but at that point he only had 13 in stock, not hundreds. They were a _mistake_, not a product line.

I think we're all missing some key information here:
1) How many different switch-manufacturers ARE there? Is it like guitar strings where one company makes strings for a lot of different brands? Are there sub-jobbers who buy up off-spec batches from the actual manufacturer to sell at bargain-basement prices? (factory seconds)
2) Assuming there are more than one or two, how different is their engineering of the switch? If they are "jobbers" how different is the quality-control or materials of the different jobs?
3) What is the acceptable and observed failure-rate for the manufacturer? What is the observed failure-rate for commercial pedal-makers and hobbyists, and are they noticeably different?
4) When a distributor sells stompswitches, do they carry them from more than one source/manufacturer? If they do, do they experience differential failure rates and returns, depending on source? Do they actually sell them as different catalogue items at different prices? I see distributors who will have PCB-mount and "eyelet lug" types listed separately, and maybe smaller and larger form-factor, but never two qualities.

I'm not trying to be, and hope I'm not coming across as, argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. There's a lot of missing information, for all of us.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Not suggesting that T_G is abusing his but.... I had a customer years ago who crushed push on push off switches on a regular basis. My fix was to place a rubber washer around the switch to act as a cushion, similar to the grommet they use in wah pedals...problem solved. 
The switches over the past 20 years are hit and miss and quite fragile compared to the ones made in the 70's and 80's ,so what else is new?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Wait, they don't make 'em like they used to?! 

Carling still makes them like that, but I don't think they make 3PDT, topping out at 2 sets of contacts. I may be wrong about that. Whatever material they made/make the housing out is sturdier than the moulded plastic used for all colours of 3pDT types. If they do make 3PDT types, my sense is that pedal makers seeking greater reliability would likely opt for electronic switching and a sturdy SPST momentary switch, since it would probably cost a fraction of a really good 3PDT.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way, but how are you breaking all these pedal switches?
> 
> Three switches?
> 
> I don't think I've ever broken one.


In almost 40 years of playing I had one go on me. It was on a retrosonic analog delay. Obviously a defective switch. I took it to Dan Santoni to fix and never had another issue. 
Of course I'm not counting a couple of the Boss pedals that I broke in the 80's in my young and crazy days when I used to stomp hard.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

I honestly couldn't read through most of this thread, but I figured I'd throw in my 2 cents as a parts distributor seeing many thousands of switches going in and out of our building from a few different factories.

- Even good switch manufacturers have a bad batch once in a while.
- Even good batches of switches can have a bad switch in it once in a while.
- There is a difference in the quality of materials (plastics, metals, springs, etc) between manufacturers. Sometimes even from the same manufacturer between production runs.
- There is a difference in the quality and application of epoxy between manufacturers. Sometimes even from the same manufacturer between production runs.
- The grease used in the switch isn't conductive. If it melts and gets all over the contacts due to excessive heat from a soldering iron, it can cause issues with signal flow.
- Except when an obvious defect is present (which is rare), you can't determine the quality or longevity of a switch by the exterior look or the feel of the click.
- You can't judge the quality of a manufacturer's or distributor's products from one bad item or one bad batch of items.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

How many different manufacturers are you aware of, Jon? Stompswitches never have a brand name on them and usually aren't listed by vendors as coming from a given manufacturer.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

mhammer said:


> Wait, they don't make 'em like they used to?!
> 
> Carling still makes them like that, but I don't think they make 3PDT, topping out at 2 sets of contacts. I may be wrong about that. Whatever material they made/make the housing out is sturdier than the moulded plastic used for all colours of 3pDT types. If they do make 3PDT types, my sense is that pedal makers seeking greater reliability would likely opt for electronic switching and a sturdy SPST momentary switch, since it would probably cost a fraction of a really good 3PDT.


 The newer garden variety are as mentioned not very forgiving at handling too much heat.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

mhammer said:


> How many different manufacturers are you aware of, Jon? Stompswitches never have a brand name on them and usually aren't listed by vendors as coming from a given manufacturer.


I'm aware of at least 6 and have ordered from 3. Ordering from the 4th this year. There may be more. Perhaps many more. I'm not that deep in yet.


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