# What do I need for gigging?



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

I bought my '67 Traynor YGM2 because I thought it would be perfect for gigging. Just crank it up and go. But the YGM is still silly loud when it gets past 4 and I find I really like it's tone at 7, at which point everyone is deaf. 

I'm looking for another amp, I guess. I hardly ever play clean and when I do, rolling back the volume is just fine for me, so I want a one channel tone machine.

I was thinking of something like the Kingsley Keep, but wanted to know what others thought would work.

I have an Ultimate Attenuator, but the UA and the YGM don't like one another. The Traynor's OT doesn't like the UA's 30ohm input. I don't want to buy another attenuator. Also, I don't want to use pedals.

I'm looking for something in the in <$1000 range, but <$750 would be even better!

I play classic rock, americana, southern rock etc. (The Boss, Black Crowes, Neil, Cult, Hip, CCR, Stones, etc.)

So what's out there that I don't know about that would work for me???


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

For gigging, you need one of these cool bowling shirts. Especially if ya play da' Bluz! :rockon2:


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## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

Do you still have the JTM-45 in your signature?


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## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

maybe one of the Valve train amps...low wattage single channel tone machines. Moog Audio in Montreal is a dealer. check their site.


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

why not get something like an 18W marshall clone... single channel, managable volume (ceriatone has a switch in there to go from 36W to 18W) same ball park tone...Trinity amps has one that i've been looking at building for the same reason...just need the funds myself


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

screamingdaisy said:


> Do you still have the JTM-45 in your signature?


Yes, and I use that for some gigs, but the idea behind the YGM was a one-hand, single-box solution. I have a pretty small car, so the JTM45 and cab, along with other gear makes it tough. 



ezcomes said:


> why not get something like an 18W marshall clone... single channel, managable volume (ceriatone has a switch in there to go from 36W to 18W) same ball park tone...Trinity amps has one that i've been looking at building for the same reason...just need the funds myself


Yeah, that's certainly an option but after my experience with the YGM, I'm afraid that dialing in the 18w Marshall is going to be a similar situation where it's just too loud at it's sweet spot. I basically want something that saturates really early so that I can get overdrive as early as possible and then add volume from there. I know, I know, don't we ALL want that?!?!

I might have to beg/borrow/steal an 18w to see how it works for me.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

nkjanssen said:


> How about something Princeton-Reverb-ish? Like a Fender PR Reissue. Or some kind of PR clone.


yeah, the size certainly looks like it would fit the bill, but I've never used one before. How much overdrive can these puppies put out? Especially considering I run my Marshall bridged with the high volume at 7ish and the normal volume pretty much full up.


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## fudb (Dec 8, 2010)

Have you considered trying some different tubes in your YGM-2? Something with less headroom might allow you to get the tones you want at a more usable volume...


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## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

I love my Mack.
Budget Boutique | Tube Guitar Amps | Mack Amps


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

I agree that it is really hard to pick a certain wattage of amp and hope it will break up at just the right volume point for any gig. I think every room differs too much, so the attenuator with an amp that has at least enough power seems ideal. 
Power scaling or some sort of variable DC B+ voltage regulator has worked out ideally for me, especially with my favourate non-master volume type amps.

It's too bad that your Traynor is so cool and vintage and valuable. It would probably make it too scary to add VVR to.
http://www.hallamplification.com/main.html?src=/#2,2
I would probably do it anyways, but in a way so that no holes are drilled.
My other suggestion is some other handwired 12-18 watter that you could add VVR to.
A friend of mine has a 5e3 Deluxe Clone that took VVR beautifully. I typically put the Power and Standby switch into a single 3 position toggle and then use the power Switch hole for the VVR control because it will be labelled "Power".

So, ya, amps that are relatively small that I think of are maybe the different Trinity Amp Kits that all are around that 12-18 Wattage to begin with and would take a basic cathode bias type of VVR easily as well.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

Since I accidentally double posted anyways, I'll make more suggestions.
First off, here's an idea of how the VVR works with my DC30 (removed Master Volume and put VVR in its stead):
Epiphone Dot with 4 heavy chords:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42R1uajFJnY
Light and heavy picking on a P90 in the neck of a Tele:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ppDAoTQVgI
The power was full first (and deafeningly loud-although the camera mic was set to take high spl so seems rather quiet). But then I turn down to about 1/3 voltage, which gets significantly quieter with the same tone. Sorry, nothing fancy in either video, with the channel volume set to go from clean to just more than breaking up with strumming strength. 
To give an idea, the 1/3 voltage is probably roughly below small bar gig volume, but you just turn the pot to where you want it.

My other idea is to try that new Eminence ReignMaker (or something) speaker in your Traynor that has sort of a built in sensitivity dial. I worry about it darkening the tone though... who knows; never tried it.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

fudb said:


> Have you considered trying some different tubes in your YGM-2? Something with less headroom might allow you to get the tones you want at a more usable volume...


I've tried Groove Tubes, TADs and Sovteks in the power and TungSols and Sovteks in the pre. Still stupid loud.



nkjanssen said:


> Mmmm... Yah, maybe not for you then. A PR Reverb can get nice and crunchy (as opposed to the non-reverb Princetons, which are pretty clean). Still, you're not really going to get heavy Marshall tones out of it. When I read the description of your music, I got "americana" stuck in my head and didn't really factor in the "classic rock...southern rock" part.
> 
> Though, if you stick something like a BB preamp or a Barber Direct Drive in front of it, it might give you exactly what you need. For gigging, I much prefer to use pedals than to rely on the amp for overdrive. Just much more flexibility that way without having to screw up the house mix. I usually use a fairly low wattage amp (10 to 15 watts), get the tubes cooking to the pont that there's some nice hair on my "clean tone" and then have a couple of drive pedals in front of it to push it harder when needed.


Yeah, I have a Tim and an OCD, and they work really well, but I'm trying to reduce what I have to bring to gigs. As it is, I take myself, my gear, my bassist and her gear and any PA crap we rent. All in a Pontiac Sunfire. The less the better!!! I was hoping to go pedal-free, but it doesn't seems like it's likely.



bcmatt said:


> I agree that it is really hard to pick a certain wattage of amp and hope it will break up at just the right volume point for any gig. I think every room differs too much, so the attenuator with an amp that has at least enough power seems ideal.
> Power scaling or some sort of variable DC B+ voltage regulator has worked out ideally for me, especially with my favourate non-master volume type amps.
> 
> It's too bad that your Traynor is so cool and vintage and valuable. It would probably make it too scary to add VVR to.
> ...


I know it's wishful thinking to find the one, perfect amp, but I had thought about VVR as well. I was surfing the London Power site and there were a few different options, so I emailed them to see what would work best for me, but I haven't heard back yet. I don't have any probs modding the amp. Of course, I'd prefer to keep it stock, but honestly, my gear is for play, not show. I'd rather have a modded amp that I can play the heck out of than a "collectible" amp that sits and gathers dust. Besides, it's unlikely that my YGM is going to be worth thousands anytime soon.

That VVR board on the Hall site looks like it may work. I've heard great things about VVR and for $30, it's a no-brainer to try. If I like it, I might get one for my Marshall too!

I think that's probably the easiest place to start. It's the cheapest and a pretty easily reversible mod.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

Oh yeah! I would definitely do the JTM45 as well. I don't know how you are able to enjoy it without VVR... oh ya, the Tinnitus...
I've put in VVR to all my amps 50 watts or under and have never regretted it.
Makes Master Volumes sort of obsolete in my opinion. After I put it in my JCM800 clone, I just kept the Master Volume on 11 and use only the Preamp and VVR controls now, as if I was using an earlier style Marshall.


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

just was thinking this...why not isolate your amp? build an iso box...and mic it, do you not have monitors to hear yourself anyways?
or what about just turning the amp to face the rear of the stage...that'll kill some volume, yet retain your tone


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

ezcomes said:


> just was thinking this...why not isolate your amp? build an iso box...and mic it, do you not have monitors to hear yourself anyways?
> or what about just turning the amp to face the rear of the stage...that'll kill some volume, yet retain your tone


The iso box won't work for me for a few reasons. 1st it's extra gear to schlep around, and 2, no we don't always have monitors. Depending on the size of the show/stage we don't always have monitors, or at least not always enough for everyone. Usually we'll have a couple and it's mostly for the singer and the other guitarist and the bassist who do more vocals than I do. 

As for spinning the amp around, yeah, that could work, but that's not really something I want to try without having a backup plan just in case it doesn't work. The places we've been playing so far and the situations we've been in regarding the PA and gear not being there/not working/not working as expected leaves us usually very little time for soundcheck, so I want to be able to unload, setup, tinker with as few knobs as possible and play.

I think I'll try the VVR mod first. It's cost-effective enough that if I don't like it, it's no real biggie for me. If that turns out to not do it for me, I can investigate other options.


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

its funny...everytime i read through this i think of something else...doesn't bruce stringbeen and Keith Urban tilt their amps up so that they can turn up more to get their sound, yet not be so loud out front...plus, it works as a monitor for you too


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

ezcomes said:


> its funny...everytime i read through this i think of something else...doesn't bruce stringbeen and Keith Urban tilt their amps up so that they can turn up more to get their sound, yet not be so loud out front...plus, it works as a monitor for you too


hahaha, yeah, I feel the same way! I'd actually thought of buying the Fender tilt-back legs to do the same thing, but haven't really gotten around to trying it. That might be something I'll try if the VVR circuit doesn't do it for me. Maybe the two together will really help me hit the sweet spot.


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

I used to use a plexi-shield in front of the amp.


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## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

Isn't a JTM-45 a 30w amp?

If so, toss a Greenback loaded 2x12 under it and carry a Tubescreamer or Blues Driver for those occasions where you have to keep the volume really low.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Egnater Tweaker Combo, you can thank me later  Assuming you don't need on board reverb that is. Really versatile and lots of volume for a 15 watt amp, especially if clean headroom is not a must. Mind you we practice pretty loud and I've still got lots of clean. So far has loved every pedal I've thrown at it.


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## corailz (May 1, 2008)

First : BlackStar HT20 Studio Combo.EL34 driven 20watts amp with 2 Channel and Reverb...Alot of clean headroom and really nice gain tones at reasonnable volume.

Second: Zinky BlueVelvet25. 25watts combo EL84 driven,2 channels,footswitchable reverb(On the original footswitch) and liftime warranty!!!!!This beast delivers great crunchy tones at reasonnable volume on the clean channel when the volume's passing over noon and can blow your mind with very Mashall'esque gain tones at every volume on the channel 2.

Thirdeavey Classic30. 30watts EL84 driven combo with two channels,nice reverb and a killer look in his tweed tolex(The black one is really ordinnary).The clean tones are really Fender'ish and the drive tones are really nice!The best from this one is that it's sells for about $450 brand new!!!


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## fudb (Dec 8, 2010)

hollowbody said:


> I've tried Groove Tubes, TADs and Sovteks in the power and TungSols and Sovteks in the pre. Still stupid loud.


Hmm. I'm no Yorkville expert. I have a YGM-3, it's two EL84s, so about 18ish watts. Isn't the YGM 2 the same (I did a quick google lookup that's the impression I got)? I certainly don't find it screaming loud. I wouldn't bring it to keep up with a loud drummer. You could definitely bring yours down noticably in volume by using a less efficient speaker than what's in it. 10db is perceived as a doubling in volume, so even a 4 or 5db less efficient speaker would bring the volume way down. This is of course assuming that you're otherwise happy enough with the amp that you don't want something different.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

You're carrying a P/A, a bass rig, 2 people, and your gear in a Sunfire? You're worried about a couple pedals?

My gigging Swiss Army Knife: DRRI (w/G12H30) on a tilt tripod, Tuner, Fulldrive II, OCD, DD3............................ in a Cavalier.


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## Andy (Sep 23, 2007)

Do you like the tone of the YGM? If so, why not consider OD-808 or FET Dream just to push it over the edge?


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## Relic (Mar 19, 2011)

First post from a new member here... the only amp I've ever played that allowed me to get a sweet-sounding natural overdrive without using any pedals, and without being deafeningly loud, was a silverface Fender Champ, I believe it dated from the late 70s. I don't know how many watts it was but I'd guess 5. With that thing cranked up to 10 it was *just* loud enough to jam with a drummer and bassist. Never gigged with it, don't know if it would've worked in a club.

I use a 15w Marshall onstage now, typically at about 5, and it's plenty loud. Probably still too much power for club gigs, honestly. 18w, as suggested by some, would be too much also, given what you're after. You want a low-wattage amp cranked to 10... my two cents.


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## Cdn_Cracker (Oct 7, 2006)

See if you can find a used Dr Z Maz Jr or Sr.... single channel, works extremely well with pedals. I`ve got the 2x10 but the 2x12 is also just as great!


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

I'm betting that the VVR ends up working extremely well. I think the other ideas are also great possibilities for a lot of people. However, to get the exact same tone from the exact same amp, reacting exactly the same with his guitar at his choice of volume, the VVR is going to be perfect. I'm jumping to the conclusion that we will have another VVR convert. It's just such a simple and effective solution, especially for cathode biased, handwired, non-MV amps. It doesn't get much easier than that.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

bcmatt said:


> I'm betting that the VVR ends up working extremely well. I think the other ideas are also great possibilities for a lot of people. However, to get the exact same tone from the exact same amp, reacting exactly the same with his guitar at his choice of volume, the VVR is going to be perfect. I'm jumping to the conclusion that we will have another VVR convert. It's just such a simple and effective solution, especially for cathode biased, handwired, non-MV amps. It doesn't get much easier than that.


Yeah, I'm definitely going to go ahead with that if I can sell enough stuff and be able to keep the YGM. For the moment, it's up for sale in the emporium. Stupid vet bills


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

hollowbody said:


> Yeah, I'm definitely going to go ahead with that if I can sell enough stuff and be able to keep the YGM. For the moment, it's up for sale in the emporium. Stupid vet bills


Oh dear! Sorry to hear that. I had noticed you were selling your cab, but thought the YGM was just in the pic to get people excited. If I lived out in ontario, i wouldn't have been able to resist that YT-15.
Anyways, I hope you are able to keep it. 
Well, you can probably still get the VVR3 for Fixed biased amps for your JTM45 if that is your remaining amp. I put VVR2 in my JCM800 clone and it turned it into a whole new machine. I might as well have got rid of the MV since it stays cranked now and I just use the voltage control to vary the volume.


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