# A good guitar for a beginner



## dreamfloyd (Jul 28, 2008)

Hello,

First, please forgive me for my approximate english. Indeed, i'm french.

I'll spent some days in Canada, and particularly in Quebec City. And I began guitar six months ago. But i don't play with my own guitar, that's why i want to buy one. 

I am pretty sure that prices are lower than in France. So i want to buy a guitar there. And I was told that canadian guitars as Norman, Simon&Patrick and Seagull are well manufactured and have a good sound. But i can't get their prices on Canadian sites, especially for the first models :
- Norman B18 (6) String => http://www.normanguitars.com/modelb18f.htm
- Simon&Patrick Woodland Cedar => http://www.simonandpatrick.com/woodlandcedarf.htm

Therefore, do you know the prices for such guitars in Canada ?
Moreover, what other models or brands do you recommend ?

My budget turns around 200-250 euros (~322-400 canadian dollars).


Thank you for your answers.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

*Bon jour dreamfloyd*

Both guitars you mentioned are great guitars to start with.
The Norman has a MSR price of $369.00 Canadian ( less 30% store price)
The S&P has a MSR of $463.00 ( less 30% store price)
These prices are based on a blue book valuse so could be a tad higher or a tad lower and your English is just fine.Good luck on your trip to buying your acoustic guitar.Ship


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## dreamfloyd (Jul 28, 2008)

Hello Ship of fools,

What does mean MSR ? 
And when you write "less 30% store price", does it mean that i'll have to pay 30% more in a canadian guitar store than the price you indicate ?
For example, if i want to buy a Norman B18, will it cost approximately 479.7 dollars ? (i added 30% of the MSR price to the MSR price)? 

Thank you for your answer.


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

Hey Dreamfloyd

MSR means the suggested price the manufacturer sets for the guitar.The 30% less is how much the stores will take off the MSR(manufacturer suggested retail) in Canada.I'm not sure about the exchange rate over in france but i did see an art&luthiery ami parlor sell on a british website for around 340 pounds(thats crazy considering thats around $680 Canadian).I would make a few calls or send some emails,shop around and get the best price.Based on ships reply the Norman would be around 229.10 euros and the s&p would be around 287.46 euros.The stores over there shouldn't be so much different that here so they will probobly take some money off the MSR price.


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## dreamfloyd (Jul 28, 2008)

Hello xuthal,

Thanks for your explanations and your advises.

I was wondering... what about the prices in USA ? Are they the same ? Actually, i'm also going to USA. 
I know that it would be illogical because the guitars are manufactured in Canada, but i just want to be sure.


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## Crossroads (Apr 23, 2006)

*Norman b18*

The local dealer was selling Norman B18s last week MSRP of $429.00 his price was $299.00 and had a few different finishes in stock...:smilie_flagge17:

And the Godin family of guitars seem to always sell for a much higher price in the US


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## dreamfloyd (Jul 28, 2008)

Hello Crossroads,

You mean that the norman B18 cost 299$ in the store you're talking about? 

And why do you give a different MSR price from the price given from Ship of Tools ? ($369.00) Does it Fluctuate ? 

Maybe i have misunderstood something... sorry if it's the case.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

*dreamfloyd*

Sometimes they may be over stocked and will reduce the cost of guitars in stores and some stores offer the guitars as less than 40% of the suggested retail price, also some stores give a higher MSR price than the actual makers MSR price ( a few tell little white lies ) try and look up dealers for these guitars in Canada I am sure there are some that will ship to France.Ship


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## dreamfloyd (Jul 28, 2008)

Hello,

Ok. Actually i'll try to take the guitar with me. Some french people who have travelled from USA take their guitar with them in the plane without any problems.

Thanks for your help.

Maybe i'll give my feelings about the guitar when i am back.

:wave:


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## Grenvilleter (Dec 22, 2007)

I believe higher prices in Europe are a result of import duties imposed by the governing body. England, for instance has a fairly substanial levy on guitars putting the price considerably higher than you would pay in North America.

Same thing happens in Canada when buying PacRim instruments. Violin's, guitars etc. all are subject to duties ( the deciding factor is the country of manufacturing origin.)
For this reason, you will see different prices in Canada / USA on identical products as different governments impose different duties.

If you choose a PacRim manufactured instrument, it will probably be cheaper to purchase in the USA but if you choose a Canadian manufacturer, it will probably be cheaper to buy in Canada.

You will probably have an "allowance" in France up to a certain currency value that you can return with "duty free". I'll guess at 400 Euro's. When you declare your purchases at customs when you go back home, if you are over the allowable duty free limit, you pay taxes on everything over. 
Be careful with what you decide to claim if you have to. 
Differrent items have different tariff rates so...you may not want to claim your new guitar but claim your perfume or whatever until you are under your limit again.
Hope this helps


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Woodland Cedars are great guitars, especially for the price. Cedar is such a nice wood for the top.
If you can find one I'd go with that--but then that's me, and I haven't played a Norman in a long time. I really like all the Godin family of guitars I've tried, and own a Simon & Patrick 12 string with a cedar top. I played a Woodland Cedar 6 string last night while checking out some music stores. I forget the exact price, but it was just over $400. I didn't talk to anybody about how much they'd really sell it for though.

Hopefully your trip goes well, and you go home with a new guitar that will give you years of playing. And I hope you enjoy your time in Canada.


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## dreamfloyd (Jul 28, 2008)

Hello,

I came back to France Yesterday. I went to Steve Music in Montreal in order to buy my guitar. Unfortunately, the B18 and the Seagull Original weren't available. 
So the seller proposed an Art&Lutherie (i don't remember the model), a Seagull coastline Spruce and a Norman ST-40. And i choose the ST-40. I found the sound warmer and the neck more comfortable than the Seagull. Moreover, i loved the look lofu
I finally paid around 450 canadian dollars (with all taxes), a bit more than i wanted but i'm entirely satisfied of the guitar. And, if i compare to french prices, i saved more than 200 canadian dollars.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

*Bon Jour Dreamfloyd*

That is a great guitar and I am sure you will have nothing but fun with her, and that wasn't a bad price either, so good luck and let us know in a while how she is playing for you.Ship


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