# Anyone Built Or Running a TriWatt?



## keto (May 23, 2006)

From Trinity?

Tell me about headroom (without the boost, obviously) and your experience using it with pedals. Particularly different dirt flavours.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

No, but I've wanted to build one for a while now. 

I'd like to hear some feedback on it as well.


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## Guest (Nov 22, 2012)

From what I understand, trinity's are based
on Hiwatt? If so, you'll enjoy it. sans pedals.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Oh, I had an '81 Hiwatt, sold it earlier this year in fact - I know the tone. I know it's rep as a great pedal platform, and used mine that way, though I also really loved its drive. Just wondering how the TriWatt stacks up, if you will excuse a turn of phrase.


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## Emohawk (Feb 3, 2006)

The Triwatt preamp is based on the DR103 with some of the tweaks from Dave Gilmour's amps (linked input). I was one of the first builders (their matching 2x12 is a design Stephen and I worked out). 

I run 6V6's in mine (22-ish watts). It can also run KT66's (40-ish watts). I think some folks have tried EL34's too, but I can't speak to that. I'm also running a 12AT7 in the PI precicely because I like it cleaner. A 12AX7 will give more drive & bite.

I loaded my 2x12 with a pair of ceramic Weber Thames (based on the Fane Purplebacks). These have a very "hi-fi" vibe. The amp can get relatively loud & stay pretty clean. When it's clean, it is VERY clean and VERY quiet, and as a result it absolutely loves pedals. I've run a variety of delays, chorsuses, flanges & overdrives through it and it gets on well with all of them. If you're looking for a clean platform to build a soundscape around, I can't imagine a better option.

Note also that there are simple mods listed to get it into Pagey's setup form the early 70's as well as closer to Gilmour's amps.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Thanks, I had seen some of your postings on Trinity's forums....but you nicely and succinctly summed up EXACTLY what I wanted to know. Many thanks for that!

GAS, GAS, GAS. What to do.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Let the adventure begin. Just ordered the TriWatt from Trinity.

My experience building pedals will be helpfull, I have good soldering skills and can follow a layout/identify parts and such. But it will also be a learning curve, much more advanced electrical concepts.


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## Emohawk (Feb 3, 2006)

I started building pedals also. The Triwatt was probably the 6th or 7th amp I built. Follow the layout & instructions and you should be fine. There's plenty of posts on the Trinity forums when we were doing the early builds, so you'll see plenty of mistakes (we all made them!) and how to diagnose things, and also lots of info about where the noise sensitive areas in the amp are. Great amp for sure.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Day 1. Skipped the chassis assembly and got right to burning my fingers I mean soldering. Still have to learn how to keep leads straight. Missed a connection, ended up with a minor mess up top right between the 2 .1u caps. I'm not a perfectionist on aesthetics, however...just tone.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

keto said:


> Day 1. Skipped the chassis assembly and got right to burning my fingers I mean soldering. Still have to learn how to keep leads straight. Missed a connection, ended up with a minor mess up top right between the 2 .1u caps. I'm not a perfectionist on aesthetics, however...just tone.


That is lookin' mighty fine, keto.

Will be following this build thread for sure.

Cheers

Dave


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Day 2. Finished up the board (except for 1 resistor). Figured out along the way that I was supposed to use the holes in the tops of the turrets, THAT's how you get a nice clean straight components look. Doh.









Did most of the components into the chassis. It took *WAYWAYWAY* longer than I thought it would - I though I had a 1 hour job ahead of me, 6 hours later I wasn't done, due to my inexperience and, being honest, a few less than clear instructions in the guide. Many are just finger tight, so they can be pulled for small component installation. In the picture below, I have a few components left over that I didn't know where they went. I've since figured out all of them, though the grommets don't fit the holes they are intended for - where the wires come off the transformers thru the chassis. I'll probably just either wrap the wires in electrician's tape or buy the right size heat shring tubing, and maybe double it up.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

keto said:


>


Hi Keto,
I couldn't help but notice that you have your OT aligned exactly the same as your PT. I'm pretty sure chassis' wire holes are down by the tubes for the OT so that you can have the winds running a different direction (off by 90 degrees). Just roll the transformer so that that white sticker on top is facing the front faceplate. The idea is to eliminate hum caused by the magnetic fields of the transformers interacting.
Usually when I do an amp build I do the "headphone trick" to find optimum placement and orientation of transformers for silent running. With a pre-drilled chassis like this, I assume Trinity has already done so and that's why the wire holes are not right under the OT like the PT.

Otherwise, looking very good! Fun, isn't it?


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

keto said:


> Day 2. Finished up the board (except for 1 resistor). Figured out along the way that I was supposed to use the holes in the tops of the turrets, THAT's how you get a nice clean straight components look. Doh.


Seeing as you already soldered them on, you may find this works to your advantage when connecting your lead wires. You'll have nice empty holes with lots of space to solder them into. I usually use eyelets, and trying to fit 2 or three wire leads into an eyelet that already has a few component leads in it can get rather frustrating...
You have made things easier to finish your build.
However, I wouldn't recommend repeating it on your next build, because if you ever want to swap out a component, it will take a bit of wrestling to get it unwrapped from the turret.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

bcmatt said:


> Hi Keto,
> I couldn't help but notice that you have your OT aligned exactly the same as your PT. I'm pretty sure chassis' wire holes are down by the tubes for the OT so that you can have the winds running a different direction (off by 90 degrees). Just roll the transformer so that that white sticker on top is facing the front faceplate. The idea is to eliminate hum caused by the magnetic fields of the transformers interacting.
> Usually when I do an amp build I do the "headphone trick" to find optimum placement and orientation of transformers for silent running. With a pre-drilled chassis like this, I assume Trinity has already done so and that's why the wire holes are not right under the OT like the PT.
> 
> Otherwise, looking very good! Fun, isn't it?


Mounting holes are not drilled to reorient either transformer. The 'finished chassis' pic in their manual shows them mounted as I have them. It even says, earlier in the manual, to do as you have said but, short of punching new holes, it's not possible as the kit is shipped.

Re: wires/terminals, my thinking went exactly as you have stated. Was 3/4 done the board when I figured out my error, so just did the rest 'wrapped' and will use the top holes for off-board wiring.

It was also pointed out to me over on Trinity site that I missed installing the tube shields, will fix.

How do you like my custom 'Costco box' chassis stand? Too damned cold here to drag out the table saw and build myself a proper one


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

keto said:


> Mounting holes are not drilled to reorient either transformer. The 'finished chassis' pic in their manual shows them mounted as I have them. *It even says, earlier in the manual, to do as you have said but, short of punching new holes, it's not possible as the kit is shipped. *


While it is still reasonably easy to do, are you considering drilling new holes and rotating one of the transformers by 90 degrees? (I'm assuming you would rotate the OT). You would hate to have problems in future that could possibly be eliminated now, IMHO.

This is some interesting reading on the topic:

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17505&sid=236911889959a698ed27009846db9fec

and

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18442&sid=a0a60bbdaf75b80992bb37eaf0c3ff7b

Not about the same amp you are building...but informative reads.

Hopefully, some of the amp techs/builders in the forum will comment.

Cheers

Dave


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

keto said:


> Mounting holes are not drilled to reorient either transformer. The 'finished chassis' pic in their manual shows them mounted as I have them. It even says, earlier in the manual, to do as you have said but, short of punching new holes, it's not possible as the kit is shipped.
> 
> Re: wires/terminals, my thinking went exactly as you have stated. Was 3/4 done the board when I figured out my error, so just did the rest 'wrapped' and will use the top holes for off-board wiring.
> 
> ...


Are you sure the holes won't fit? Look at this pic from the Trinity website to see what I mean:
http://www.trinityamps.com/What_s_New_files/trinityamps_triwatt_inside.jpg
I guess you could drill holes later if it becomes a big issue. The transfomers may be spaced enough from each other that it wont' matter...

Yes, I like your chassis stand... no less fancy than anything I have ever used... except the vintage Traynor heads that use the cab as a stand and the lid just unscrews: Brilliant!


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I may have misunderstood what you meant by turning the OT 90 degrees - I was thinking sideways along its axis, were you meaning forward/backward, like rolling it 90? Anyways, I did have it 180 wrong and have fixed it.

Also, the holes where the wires come thru the chassis are 3/8", too small for the supplied grommets, which appear to be 1/2". I bought some rubber ones at Home Depot but they won't work either. I think the supplied grommets are right and the holes were punched too small, but I haven't heard back from Stephen yet. So, as a temp solution, I have braided the wires and then DOUBLE wrapped them in electricians tape - I recognize this is not ample protection long term, I'm still puzzling out what to do. In fact, the holes are so small I had to unbraid the 3 green wires off the PT as they wouldn't fit thru the hole braided.

Added the tube shields. Added washers to where the transformers mount, as I wanted to go screw inside/nut outside....way too hard to try and get a screwdriver at the screws if they were on the transformer side.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Princess Auto has wiring grommets. There are (apparently) at least 2 locations in Edmonton.

http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8239105/Cable-Management/70-pc-Rubber-Wiring-Grommet

http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/4210675/Cable-Management/30-pc-Rubber-Wiring-Grommets

Unfortunately...you will likely end up way over-grommeted...LOL

You might also find one of these handy to have (they have many choices of sizes, etc.):

http://www.princessauto.com/pal/pro...1/4-to-3/4-in.-Titanium-Coated-Step-Drill-Bit

Your build is progressing well and looking great!

Cheers

Dave


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

keto said:


>


The way you have the transformers sitting here in this pic is the orientation that is often recommended.

Cheers

Dave


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I'm hoping not to have to drill the chassis, but I do have a press and multiple step bits. I bought grommets just like you linked today. I bought too big because I eyeballed em, but if I go to the next size down no way will the wires fit thru - as noted above, the green ones on the PT don't fit braided even without a grommet, and the group of 4 on the OT barely fit thru the hole at all when braided. I unbraided the green ones to get them thru.

Too fricken cold to be futzing around with the drill press in the garage - plus, it means uninstalling everything cause those metal chips just go everywhere (I know from drilling a kazillion pedal boxes). I'm also a little worried about tearing the chassis, as it's quite thin.

I know what you mean about orientation ^. On the Trinity forum I was advised to NOT turn one.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Sorry..I was hoping to be helpful. You are miles ahead of me.

Cheers

Dave


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I just got the ok from Stephen to drill out the holes so the grommets fit. Done.

Yay, grommets!









In honour of which, I bring you...
[video=youtube;mk6zbY8i4_8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk6zbY8i4_8[/video]


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

keto said:


> I just got the ok from Stephen to drill out the holes so the grommets fit. Done.


Did you use a step bit? 
Did you have problems with tearing (as you were concerned about)?

I'm asking as the chassis I have for a build is aluminum (Hammond) and I was hoping to use a step bit for all the holes above 3/8" or so.

Any hints re: drilling large holes with a step bit?

Thanks

Cheers

Dave


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Yes I used a step bit, all the way to the bottom of the bit in fact. The thing with aluminum (which this chassis is, and effects pedal boxes are) is that it throws aluminum chips *everywhere*. So mask your work unless you want to do some cleaning. Aluminum doesn't tear, in my experience so far, and had no problem with the chassis. The holes are ugly after and need cleaning up with sandpaper or dremel or whatever.

I just punch em thru one step at a time or, in the case of fx boxes which are thicker, I just run the bit down until I'm happy without really slowing down - slow steady pace.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks Keto...much appreciated.

Cheers

Dave


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

keto said:


> I may have misunderstood what you meant by turning the OT 90 degrees - I was thinking sideways along its axis, were you meaning forward/backward, like rolling it 90? Anyways, I did have it 180 wrong and have fixed it.


Umm, you have the right idea in the direction, but if you look at the pic in the link, you will see it is so that wires come out towards the tubes and not toward the chassis. The mounting holes don't fit if you turn only 90degrees instead of 180? I'm talking about so that that white paper sticker faces toward the front plexi faceplate controls on the chassis instead if straight up from the chassis. In the current position, the copper winds in the transformer are wrapping around inside in exactly the same orientation as the Power transformer. Putting them off 90 degrees usually solves hum issues. 180degrees plops them right back back in the same direction again. Know what I mean, vern?








If the holes don't fit to do so, then I guess Stephen tested it and they are far enough from each other to not cause an issue so you are fine.


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## Emohawk (Feb 3, 2006)

bcmatt's is correct. You do have to roll the OT so that the coils are oriented vertically rather than horizontally, and the wires should be toward the back (the tube side) of the chassis. This will take care of the interference issues as the coils are oriented in different directions. I can tell you my Triwatt is the one of quietest amps I own.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Thanks guys. Thus ends day 3 lol. Spun my wheels a lot, learned a little, felt like a lot of effort for very little progress but at least it's right. I think I had the transformers installed 4 different times today.









EDIT. Aaaand I think I installed it 180 wrong again ARRRRRRRRRRggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

EDIT AGAIN yup fixed it. Definitely putting it away for the night lol.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

keto said:


> Thanks guys. Thus ends day 3 lol. Spun my wheels a lot, learned a little, felt like a lot of effort for very little progress but at least it's right. I think I had the transformers installed 4 different times today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yay! It worked! That pic makes me very happy! I got quite into this project. Keep on trucking. You are doing good. I bet you are learning tonnes as you go. Totally worth all the time and supposed aggravation.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

To clarify, when you guys were telling me first to roll the transformer, I thought you were telling me to turn the OT sideways. *THAT* is what Trinity told me to not do. Rolling it 90 forwards or backwards, I get what you (multiple) were trying to tell me about 20 posts ago :thanks5qx:


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

I'm with Dave on this one that the transformers should be at 90 degrees to one another (the orientation of the laminations). I've not heard of "rolling" the transformer so that the windings are 90 degrees to one another.
Edit: This is standard amp-building technique that I've described but if Trinity suggests otherwise, it's their baby. (just saw your most-recent post).
There is a way to find the lowest noise orientation before you mount them but it might be a little late now.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Some interesting observations from today. I placed a power transformer and output transformer on one of my chassis and proceeded to test for noise. "Rolling" the transformer does indeed work, as long as they are nearly straight in line with one another. Moving to one side or the other makes for hum. 

Orienting the laminations at 90 degrees like I suggested, also works well, but not if the transformers are in line. Moving to one side or the other makes for no hum. The closer they are, the more hum regardless of orientation, which makes sense. 

It's a great day when you learn something.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Thanks for the input and observations, all! Took 2 nights off (actually, built a pedal one night, and redid some guitar items and redid my pedal board the other), but back at it tonight - and significant progress. You pro's can laugh all night and all day at the 'significant' 
Power from the transformer to the light, and grounded









Added the heater wires









Ran the heater wires to the tube sockets. Genius me thought he could be neater than all the other ones I looked at. HAH! No chance.

















Misc off board components added

















V3 was a bit of a chore, a big capacitor stacked on top of a resistor to the same 2 socket leads. No points for neatness here, though they definitely don't touch any other leads or components, which I know you can't tell from the pic.









Got done that and realized OH! SHAZBOOT! The outputs go right there, did I leave room??? Luckily...I did.









Bias section. There's a 1/2" jumper in back, from the black 'common' bias point down to the pot. That was a bit of a pain and some melted plastic.









And some more misc wiring


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

GREAT PICS !! Thanks !....i'm enjoying this thread very much.

Cheers

Dave


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

WCGill said:


> Some interesting observations from today. I placed a power transformer and output transformer on one of my chassis and proceeded to test for noise. "Rolling" the transformer does indeed work, as long as they are nearly straight in line with one another. Moving to one side or the other makes for hum.
> 
> Orienting the laminations at 90 degrees like I suggested, also works well, but not if the transformers are in line. Moving to one side or the other makes for no hum. The closer they are, the more hum regardless of orientation, which makes sense.
> 
> It's a great day when you learn something.


 Kinda' makes U wonder why Ken Fischer mounted his transformers side by each and sooo close??

Nice job on the build, BTW.
Cheers, d


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Slow, steady progress today. At the point where I'm going to mount the circuit board next.
Inputs









Outputs









Power Sockets area. I think I'm done there, maybe 1 more wire to run.









Couple of 'general' shots, taken 5 min ago.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Nice looking work. Probably a lot nicer looking than I would have got it.


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## Emohawk (Feb 3, 2006)

Yep. Keeping things tidy is really important. There's a couple of spots where things get a little busy in this amp, and good lead dress is critical to keep noise down - especially around the overdrive pot. VERY sensitive around there. You'll probably be doing some chopsticking & experimentation to minimize the noise with it engaged. Most of us went through that with the early builds. I remember mine motorboated horribly at first.

Looking good so far. Keep it up!


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Progress to end of day 12/15. Nearly there, one more tube socket (V1) and the pots.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Fired it up yesterday - no tubes, cab plugged in, just a 1 second power function test. Light lit up, then went out as I was turning the switch off, but seemed to go out before I hit the off position. So, I recycled the power. Light didn't come on. Checked fuse, fuse good. On a whim, pulled the light bulb - blew it up, smoked it and put a hole in the glass. Hrrrmmmm, put everything aside until I can go get a couple replacement bulbs and maybe a fuse or 2 to have on hand.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

keto said:


> ....So, I recycled the power. Light didn't come on. Checked fuse, fuse good. On a whim, pulled the light bulb - blew it up, smoked it and put a hole in the glass.


Did the light bulb test fine before you tried this? You said it lit up and then went out as you were turning the switch off.

Is the circuit you are using for the test:
(circuit pic thanks to Doug / GC member "loudtubeamps")










Cheers

Dave


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I had a tiny whisker of a wire bridging the main voltage into the lamp. Cleared that out and WE HAVE THE RAWK!

Still have some minor issues
-bias points not giving readings, so I haven't biased up the power tubes yet.
-bright and normal inputs are wrong (dunno how that happened, if it's bad labelling on the faceplate or bad layout diagram. I wired it like I was supposed to)
-have bad (too high) voltages on the PI tube, thus
-the amp sounds GREAT but has very low headroom - I assume it's related to the above. It sounds sorta 'soft', not fuzzy at all but not crisp when dialed for clean.
-a minor issue with the overdrive pull pot, works but when pushed back in sound sometimes cuts out. Pulling it back out brings back sound

I've posted my tube pin voltages and other findings over at Trinity, hoping to get some suggestions on where to look first.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Got it sorted out mostly. I missed a bridge on the V4 PI tube socket. NOW I have headroom and VOLUME. I was using the wrong setting on my meter for bias, it runs off a resistor so need to use v instead of mA. Still need to work out the overdrive cutout issue.

Ordered the headcab from Trinity this week (Xmas present from Mrs.). I'll do a vid once I have it all put together properly.

Oh, it sounds glorious!


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## Emohawk (Feb 3, 2006)

Good stuff! The OD pot issue sounds like a defective pot. I remember thinking those push/pull pots felt a little on the flimsy side and had very little feel, but mine has worked fine from the start. I asked Stephen about alternatives and he said they had been looking at other manufacturers at the time but the cost was prohibitive.

The Triwatt is a great amp.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

So after a gap of a month, I finished it up last night. Stephen sent me a replacement OD pot, and one out of spec resistor replacement....I swapped those out. My wife bought me the cab as a Xmas present, it arrived last Monday. Jammed with it learning how it responds at different settings last night, then took it to band practice today. I use a huge pedal board, and wanted a clean-ish platform...the TriWatt doesn't have as much clean headroom as I thought it might, but it doesn't matter - as with my formerly owned HiWatt Custom 50, the TriWatt plays VERY well with different dirt pedals plus the trem and phaser I use. I was getting some massive sounds today, can't wait to hear the rehearsal recording. It will reside most of the time at our rehearsal space, along with my Voltage 2x10, where this pic was taken this afternoon.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2013)

looking forward to hearing that recording.


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