# L&M Fail!!!



## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

I'm in the modding mood, and want to add a single coil sized humbucker to my strat. 
I was in one of the 5 location of L&M in Edmonton about 3 weeks ago and noticed that they had one or 2 in the showcase, didn't look at them at that time as I was looking for something else.

Fast forward 3 weeks. 

I called that location up again, and asked if they had any single coil sized humbuckers in stock......
The young fella said hold, on, and then came back with - nope none in stock. 
I asked if he was sure, he said they didn't have any mini humbuckers.

I told him that mini humbuckers are what gets installed in Gibson firebirds, Not strats, I was looking for Single coil sized humbuckers.

Again was told none in stock.


Being the stubborn type, I took a detour on my way home to that location where I had noticed them in the show case, and as I walked over to the showcase...........There they were, 2 Dimarzio Single coil sized humbuckers. Along with a Seymour Duncan P-Rail, and 1 actual mini humbucker, a few EMG's and a set of dimebuckers. 

So I bought a 4 sets of strings (can never have enough) and a new Dimarzio Chopper S bridge pickup for my strat.



I also spoke to the manager about his sales staff not knowing what they were selling. In terms of what the customer is asking vs what they are hearing or jumping to conclusion about. 

I doubt that anything will be done.
More's the Pity


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

That'll happen. I just dont shop at l&m.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

How 'bout the reverse of your experience, wouldn't that piss you off a little more?!

I was looking for a Voodoo Lab pedal switcher, hardly anybody was carrying them, but the L&M web site said the Scarborough store had one.

L&M often sells pretty ratty-looking products as new - well-handled, I suspect sometimes even rented, and then sold as new at full price. Also, the stores can't always find what the web site says they have in stock.

The Scarborough store is a long way away from me so I call first, young man agrees to go find it and report its condition. Puts me on hold for a long time, then finally picks back up and says yeah, they have it, looks brand new. I ask him to set it aside for me, he agrees.

I drive there, 43 km. Ask for it at the counter, not there, track down the guy in back of the store and with the help of his manager it's soon clear that he never even looked for it! Nobody knows where it is.

I'm there 20 more minutes while the manager looks for it, finally finds the product which looks like it's been on tour for a year. She apologizes, nothing more. I drive 43km home and write an email complaining to Steve Long, president. Never got a response.

Now THAT'S a fail!! :smile-new:


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

djmarcelca said:


> I'm in the modding mood, and want to add a single coil sized humbucker to my strat.
> I was in one of the 5 location of L&M in Edmonton about 3 weeks ago and noticed that they had one or 2 in the showcase, didn't look at them at that time as I was looking for something else.
> 
> Fast forward 3 weeks.
> ...


Perhaps it may have helped to tell him where you last saw them and what they looked like, etc. and asked if they were still there. Not all sales staff can be experts on everything in the store or even in one area of expertise.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Perhaps it may have helped to tell him where you last saw them and what they looked like, etc. and asked if they were still there. Not all sales staff can be experts on everything in the store or even in one area of expertise.


It wouldn't hurt for them to be at least a bit invested in their work. When I call L&M if I don't have their sku number on hand chances are I'm going to be on hold for at least 15 minutes, then I might get their favorite "check the website, it will tell you whether or not it's in stock". The last screw up was sending me 5 packs of Elixer 80/20 Polywebs packed in the box with my guitar, when I clearly asked for Elixer phosphor bronze Nanowebs. Not all the salesmen are like this obviously but it happens more often than not. Is it that difficult for a guitar player, working in the guitar department at a guitar store to show at least a little bit of interest? Surely it can't be as bad as flipping patties.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

Steadfastly said:


> Perhaps it may have helped to tell him where you last saw them and what they looked like, etc. and asked if they were still there. Not all sales staff can be experts on everything in the store or even in one area of expertise.


I'm not sure how more specific I could have been.
Single Coil Sized Humbucker. 

If he didn't know what I was talking about, Why did he not ask? 

When I called I asked to speak to somebody in the guitar department. His response? - That's me.
If he works in the Guitar Department, He _absolutely_ should know the difference between a Full sized, Mini,single coil sized rail and stacked humbucker. As well as a dual coil single coil and basic single coil.

I don't think it's too much to ask.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

I started a response and then canceled because I thought I was coming off a high horse. But I changed my mind.

Way back, I used to work in a guitar store between bands. Right from the gitgo, I explored every nook and cranny of the shop to see what was in stock. Then I went to the distributors catalogs to see what could be ordered. It just took a little interest and a short time of effort.

I don't go into L&M very often, but as of the last time I was in as a looky-loo, I bet I could name at least most of the pedals, pickups and small parts they have under glass and on the walls - even stuff I have no interest in. I would expect the sales staff at L&M should have at least as much knowledge of their inventory off the top of their head - or where to find that knowledge quickly.

To be fair, I don't recall having the problems related in this thread at L&M, but then the staff at the downtown store I frequent are all avid guitar players and know their stuff pretty well.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I've never experienced an problems of that sort at L&M, although it could certainly happen anywhere with a larger staff.
The fail is the manager's failure to address things-it would have been nice if they'd made you a deal or something--especially for boyscout driving all that way.

Some of them do seem to need some training on using their computer though.
But I had I've had good experiences with that at all three locations, although one time a salesman was a little confused, (Looking for an adapter actually) but he went & got help.

And the salesman last weekend knew what he was doing finding me that fretless bass in the back.

Hopefully things get better, and the sales staff isn't afraid to ask for help.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

Not all L&M stores are the same. The Oshawa store has a lot of knowledgeable staff that can answer just about anything. If they can't they will find someone that will. I've only ever been in the Oshawa store and by the looks of how busy it is every time I visit I'm not the only one who feels that way. I can see how driving all that way would upset you.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

how well do music stores pay thier people these days? is it just minimum wage basicly?


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

djmarcelca said:


> I'm in the modding mood, and want to add a single coil sized humbucker to my strat.


You would have got a mini bucker (replacement size for a strat single coil ) out of me because you are dealing with a Strat. I can see the sales persons confussion. Those smaller buckers which come in firebirds and older Les Pauls are seldom sold. That is a unusual mod and I have never seen someone play a strat like that.


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## jtienhaara (Dec 4, 2013)

The last time I was in Long & McQuade was 2003. They ordered 4 snakes for me. When the snakes came in, I had to pay $500 more than the $1,500 they had quoted me. (I haggled them down from $900 above quote.)

No apology, nothing. Just "I quoted you the wrong price. What do you want to do?"

I've never set foot in an L&M since, and never will.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

djmarcelca said:


> I also spoke to the manager about his sales staff not knowing what they were selling. In terms of what the customer is asking vs what they are hearing or jumping to conclusion about.
> 
> I doubt that anything will be done.
> More's the Pity


Over the years, I've been in at least five different L&M locations here on the Wet Coast and could see the difference in how they're managed and how savvy are their sales staff. I had one experience in which one store dissed another saying, "Those guys don't know what they're talking about". He was right.

I'm quite lucky to have a good store in my neighborhood, the guys there are awesome, very helpful, knowledgeable and don't even flinch to set up amps, pedals, guitars, anything. They know their stuff and they know what they're selling. Most of them are in bands and have been playing for years. In the evenings before they close when it gets quiet, they get together and jam right there on the showroom floor.

On occassion, I have seen customers come in to pick up something they ordered and were not happy. The guys are on the phone immediately to head office working the problem, which usually originated at the other end.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

djmarcelca said:


> I'm not sure how more specific I could have been.
> Single Coil Sized Humbucker.
> 
> If he didn't know what I was talking about, Why did he not ask?
> ...


You could have been specific about brands and models you'd seen in stock. As others have said, not every clerk can be an expert on absolutely every piece of product in a store like L&M, since they stock such a vast array of products.


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## NB_Terry (Feb 2, 2006)

I was just in Long & McQuade and I was talking about Line 6 products with the salesman;

#1 - he didn't know that Yamaha bought them a couple months ago.
#2 - this is the worst part; he was telling me that Line 6 has been building amps since the 70s. :sSig_DOH:


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

I'm not sure how it is at the other stores as far as size goes, but I know the employees in Edmonton cross-train between departments and have an active program that rewards them for successful cross training. Point is, they cover a HUGE product range and then to have to do it in another department if they're short staffed or someone is on break...you can't expect Dan Erlewine at every location to give you expert advise and knowledge. For the novice to average player looking for a little direction or help most staff are fine..but if you have a particular interest or need it means you've done your homework, it doesn't mean everyone else has. Sometimes a little patience and input on your part to help them find the product you need goes a long way to a better experience. It's the same with any store, I've even found myself educating some of the sales staff at "boutique" stores.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

that problem is someone in HR. why hire people who don't know what they're doing? a pickup is a basic thing. it's not rocket science. it's not even specialized knowledge. if you work in a guitar store at all, and you don't know one type of pickup from another, then you have no business answering the phone, or dealing with customers. those people don't get hired when employers screen for experience. how many guys do you guys think would jump at the chance to work part time in exchange for gear? uh-huh. i don't buy the lack of available talent.



*edit: *i should add that i have only been to the downtown store. every time i have gone in there or called they have treated me pretty well. i did have to school a guy on what a tremol-no was once, but that is something i don't expect everyone to know. most people these days still use a wooden block or a stack of coins. i don't really like guitar shopping there because sometimes it's too busy for my taste with the openness of it. but the staff there in my experience have been pretty good.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Merlin said:


> You could have been specific about brands and models you'd seen in stock. As others have said, not every clerk can be an expert on absolutely every piece of product in a store like L&M, since they stock such a vast array of products.


It's interesting that you mentioned that, reading this thread I was just wondering if it would take 5, or as long as 7 minutes to train the proper candidate for this job, I figured it should be as simple as learning to punch your time card and finding everything on the shelf... I could no doubt be wrong, but I don't think so.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

OK, here's a disclaimer - I teach at two L&M locations in S. Ontario. I've worked in musical retail on and off for the past 25 years (Boddington's, Cosmo, Gary Armstrong Woodwinds, Cosmo (again!) and Steve's.)

There is ongoing employee training via the company intranet to help develop more rounded employees. They have to learn about things that may be out of their comfort zones. I've seen them have to learn about what strings to recommend for orchestral stringed instrument, what reeds are needed for student clarinet players - the list goes on.

When you're dealing with a small store - say like the one in Woodstock - you might have two or three full time staff who not only have to cope with guitars and basses but keyboards, drums, band instruments and stringed instruments. 

If you want specialists who know every g-d damned thing about every f'in piece of gear in the store...well, let's just say you better be prepared to pay a sh'tload more money than you are right now. If you're paying 12th Fret or Folkway prices, yeah, expect them to know every minute detail - Oh wait - they only need to know about stringed instruments!

L&M has some pretty decent pricing, a generous return policy, lots of locations and a broad product range, not to mention a mandate to have lesson studios in most if not all locations. When they buy out mom & pop stores, they frequently keep the former owners on as managers.

I've been a customer since '78 - and I still have the first horn I bought there. I'm on a first name basis with Jack Long, and there are L&M employees that I've dealt with for over 30 years. I can't think of another store that has any employees who've stuck it out that long.

It might be kinda hip to L&M bash, and pick away at the minor little gaffs. I've been known to walk into stores and ask challenging questions too, but I don't brag on the interwebs about how cool I am for being right all the time.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Merlin said:


> I've been known to walk into stores and ask challenging questions too, but I don't brag on the interwebs about how cool I am for being right all the time.


I don't get how that applies. Anyone even remotely involved with guitars should know what a single coil sized humbucker is and anyone who didn't, but put someone on hold who was asking about one, should be able to ask before getting back on the horn and telling a customer "we don't have any".

So...the question wasn't challenging and the T/S was not bragging that he was right - he was merely relating a story of complete ineptitude as it related to a big music store employee who should have been able to 'serve' him about 20 times better than he did.

Then again, 20 times zero is still zero, so that kid should be flipping patties (as someone put it).


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Any business can have turds for employees, however customer complaints should be handled swiftly and apologetically. I happen to like the 3 L&M's near me. The staff has always been helpful and knowledgeable The selection is perhaps heavy with brand a,b & c...but most of the other local independent shops in my area have poor selection and a higher volume of odd, unpopular brands...assuming that they could not get better product lines(?) The worst low end shop I have ever seen is in Hamilton...not a single decent piece for sale. I don't lean on L&M for parts or tech, so I cant vouch for them there.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Merlin said:


> OK, here's a disclaimer - I teach at two L&M locations in S. Ontario. I've worked in musical retail on and off for the past 25 years (Boddington's, Cosmo, Gary Armstrong Woodwinds, Cosmo (again!) and Steve's.)
> 
> There is ongoing employee training via the company intranet to help develop more rounded employees. They have to learn about things that may be out of their comfort zones. I've seen them have to learn about what strings to recommend for orchestral stringed instrument, what reeds are needed for student clarinet players - the list goes on.
> 
> ...


The criticisms you object to may seem harsh but let's face it the truth hurts. Nobody expects specialists at every corner but if your staff doesn't have a clue what's what in the guitar department than a lot of people will spare themselves the frustration and won't waste their time shopping there, just ask Bestbuy.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

In any business, an employee who is asked a question on the phone that is beyond his/her knowledge should be expected to find someone who can provide an answer. The customer should not be put on hold for more than a couple of minutes. If a knowledgeable employee who can answer the question is not available, the customer should be informed that their question cannot be answered at the moment and offered a prompt call back when an answer is available.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

None of us has any way what happened in the store that day. The phone might have been ringing off the hook with multiple customers in store trying to get the staff's attention. A human made a mistake, where no one got hurt, and it's now a three page thread. It sounds like some of you have never worked a busy shift in retail.


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## jtienhaara (Dec 4, 2013)

Nobody is getting hurt by this 3 page thread, either. Personally I'm enjoying it.

What I read from this thread is: there are individuals at Long & McQuade, and even a few whole stores that are managed well, who will serve their customers with attention and respect. But like any monopolistic box store chain, there are a lot of useless twunts working there, who couldn't care less about customers or service.

This isn't surprising. It's a box store and a near-monopoly, so of course service is going to frequently suck. But what is mildly surprising, to me at least, is that in an age when music storefronts are closing their doors permanently, and big Canadian box store chains in other markets are selling out or shutting down, and with a reputation that is hardly spotless, still L & M somehow keeps profitable enough to buy out all the other chains (Ward Music, Music Stop, etc). I guess they have deep pockets. But I wonder how long the expansionism will last.

Johann


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

There's a new Long and McQuade in Laval, Qc. They bought out the Italmelodie that had been there for years. They kept most/all of the staff. Good store overall and first rate staff.

There's also a Long and McQuade in Montreal. It is the worse L&M that I've been in. In fact, it is worse than the store they bought out (Centre musical Ahuntsic). I don't know if they kept the staff and management. I was there a couple of weeks ago. The acoustic guitars are near the front windows. I tried a Larrivée with a price tag of $1800. The fretboard was shrinking and the fret ends were poking out so much it was unplayable. I told the salesdude you better take care of this one, the lack of humidity is killing it. He said they had a hard time keeping them humidified, with the winter and all. He said there wasn't much he could do. I said he could put it in its case with a case humidifier until it was back in shape but he wasn't interested. Then I noticed the $3000 Gibson Hummingbird on the wall. There was a big crack through the top, from the bridge down. I pointed it out to him. He took the guitar to show it to the manager. As I left they were still talking about it: "A three thousand dollar guitar, brand new. Do you think it can be repaired?" I won't be buying an acoustic there.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Although this may not impact on the specific snafu initiating this thread, I generally follow one rule when transacting business over the phone. I _always_ write down the name of the person I am talking to, and the time of the call. I even do it for simple inquiries.

If a customer has any gripes with a retailer based on a phone conversation, (s)he has no recourse whatsoever unless there is some proof that the call actually existed. Saying "I talked to John Smith at 3:35 PM on Tuesday and he told me I would get a full refund," is a lot more effective than saying "some time last week a clerk of your's said I'd get my money back." And then if someone in the store is incompetent or irresponsible, management has something concrete to contend with. If you were promised something contrary to store policy, having a name and time will give you a lot more leverage if they try to back out.

I can't recount over the course of my lifetime how many times this practice has saved me time, money, yielded customer satisfaction, and gotten substandard employees straightened out or possibly dismissed.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

no matter what store you walk into these days you're going to find employees without a clue. It's the sign of the times, not just L&M. I don't how many times I've asked a question about a product and had the salesperson start reading the box to me. I can read a box......if you don't know, just say so!!


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## Gearhead88 (Nov 7, 2013)

L&M has always treated me right , there are three stores here to shop out of , I've bought several guitars , amps and assorted widgets there , never once had buyers remorse or felt the need to get on the computer and snivel about any dealings . All of the L&M stores I've shopped at have courteous staff that display professional sales skills , good customer service and some degree of depth as far as product knowledge goes. I find it helpful to pick a store , get to know the staff , develop a working relationship with them so they know what you like , some times they use that information to develop leads , to sell pre-owned gear that comes in on trade , sort of a , hey , maybe I should call Mr Z , he' d appreciate knowing we have this and may be interested in buying it .

I don't work there , I'm just a shopper.

I shop at many other stores too ....................

The retail world is changing and evolving , that is true , what I notice in general is , the lack of customer service and the attitudes of some employees . Often I see people being ignored rather than approached , in a retail sales floor setting . The attitudes of some customers can at times be counter productive too.


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## jimmy c g (Jan 1, 2008)

would we be better off with no long and mc? , they have put a lot of gear into peoples hands, little down, over time, and try to get us what we WANT or need, I would hate to see them go and if Ive had a problem they have eagerly returned or fixed me up, no ones perfect but with out them we would be perfectly hooped, never worked there but have dumped 20k in 20 years and wont go elsewhere ,


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## dino (Jan 6, 2009)

I have been screwed over one too many times by L & M and when they came to this city everybody thought they would be a threat to the local guitar shop. The opposite happened as people found out that their local shop had better service and could match the price of the products they wanted. If I was the owner of L & M I would be dialing in my business practice. My best friend buys thousand upon thousands of dollars of high end musical equipment and is peaved at L & M . If my local shop cannot serve me I use the 12th fret and Grant is always willing to give some time to explain in a professional way what I need to know.


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## the_fender_guy (Jul 22, 2008)

For me the biggest issue is employee indifference towards customers.
And that is really a management and HR issue.
Some L&M stores are better than others from the top down.
I can handle a store employee not knowing something if they have a good attitude and make an effort to be helpful. I can't handle somebody who sits on their ass ignoring customers while they fool around on a guitar preparing for a gig that night and then get surly when you interrupt their guitar practice time(this would be a former Steve's and 12th Fret employee now at L&M)


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

the_fender_guy said:


> For me the biggest issue is employee indifference towards customers.
> And that is really a management and HR issue.
> Some L&M stores are better than others from the top down.
> I can handle a store employee not knowing something if they have a good attitude and make an effort to be helpful. I can't handle somebody who sits on their ass ignoring customers while they fool around on a guitar preparing for a gig that night and then get surly when you interrupt their guitar practice time(this would be a former Steve's and 12th Fret employee now at L&M)


He won't be practicing or fiddling around when he is on the floor at L&M. He will find that out quick.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

interesting... I cant say I've really ever had much problems at L&M. I would say that's pretty bad they didn't know what you're talking about though. which location was it?


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

So here's an example of an employee of L&M who knows his stuff, and his customers.

I went to a different location of L&M, to an employee i know well, and have bought many things from in the past. I was looking for a push/pull pot for my new pickup. 
He had placed one aside for me a couple of weeks ago.
he went to the drawer he had stashed it in, and it was gone. He checked the workbench, and the stock area, none in the store.

He called around every other location, in the city, a couple of electronic stores, and finally found one for me. 

That is what I call service, and why I'll always check in with him at that location first, before I go looking elsewhere.


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## Gearhead88 (Nov 7, 2013)

It's good that you have a guy you can trust to help you out , at my favourite store there are several I can approach , pretty much all of them have enough depth and product knowledge that their opinion can be valued.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

djmarcelca said:


> I'm not sure how more specific I could have been.
> Single Coil Sized Humbucker.
> 
> _*If he didn't know what I was talking about,*_ *Why did he not ask? *
> ...


Yes, he should have asked if he didn't know.

He may have been new to the business and that's why he didn't know.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

I think the good L & McQ's are former music shops that were bought out or wanted in (not sure if its a franchise or corp). One I deal with was a well run music shop before the switch-over and the best in town. The same staff still work there and I assume managed by the PO. If your management is NFG, the rest of the team cannot be expected to be better.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Scotty said:


> If your management is NFG, the rest of the team cannot be expected to be better.


abso-frickin-lutely


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## Gearhead88 (Nov 7, 2013)

cheezyridr said:


> abso-frickin-lutely


X2 Scotty pretty much described the dealership where I work .

It's been quite dysfunctional for years , mostly due to the previous owners , partial blame goes to the employees themselves and the standard BS that goes with poor work ethics , not giving a damn , dishonesty and people with their own agendas . It was very successful store , for a long time , it was good times , easy money , for the Weirdo owners . Their personal world collapsed due to greed , infidelity , anger , lies and dishonesty all the ingredients that make up a long drawn out expensive divorce , things deteriorated , then , new owners , that know very little about the line of products we sell , complete with a management team that is a joke . I feel sorry for the new owners , they have some managers that couldn't manage a two car parade. Change is coming , some are scared , not me , I'm a worker drone in service , I get to watch all the dynamics and do my job ( I do it very well ). My time there has been long , I need change ................. The soap opera continues ....... as does the dysfunction and dynamics among staff members .


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2014)

sit back and enjoy the chaos. is what I tend to think at the warehouse I work at.
the incompetence used to frustrate the heck out of me. now I take advantage of
it. it's more fun. I found that over the past coupla' decades, business has focused
on people with the 'right attitude' to be advanced in managerial positions (ie. ass kissers).
qualifications are a secondary (sometimes irrelevant) concern.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

that goes for more than just management. come work for local 30, you'll see it at every level.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Tough crowd.

One guy in the organization is confused in the moment by the term "single coil sized humbucker" and the whole organization gets trashed?

And besides, "single coil sized humbucker" alone is an ambiguous term... there are many varieties all with individual outputs and tonal characteristics. Then there are wind and polarity concerns to ensure complimentary phasing. Let's also not forget about 2-wire or 4-wire.

Did the OP lay all this out in his request? Did he even know what he wanted other than the hole it was to fit? Sounds like no.

It doesn't make much sense to arbitrarily buy whatever "single coil sized humbucker" they happen to have in stock and expect to be happy with the purchase. There is as much ignorance in that as the employee may have demonstrated in the moment.

We are all at different places along the path of learning and accumulated experience and knowledge. If you encounter someone who is behind you on their journey, move them along the path rather than slam them and an entire organization. Perhaps there is much that individual could teach you (or smoke you butt playing guitar), it just so happens that pickup knowledge wasn't his strength that day.

Cut the guy and L&M some slack.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I went to Tim Hortons the other day with a friend and ordered two coffee and two donuts. Read the order back to us and they still screwed the whole thing up


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

dradlin said:


> Tough crowd.
> 
> One guy in the organization is confused in the moment by the term "single coil sized humbucker" and the whole organization gets trashed?
> 
> ...


Wise and reasonable.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I went to Tim Hortons the other day with a friend and ordered two coffee and two donuts. Read the order back to us and they still screwed the whole thing up


I've had them screw up coffee with milk and sugar. They put cream in it half the time, or make it black the other half.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

dradlin said:


> Tough crowd.
> 
> One guy in the organization is confused in the moment by the term "single coil sized humbucker" and the whole organization gets trashed?
> 
> ...


Excellent post


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I went to Tim Hortons the other day with a friend and ordered two coffee and two donuts. Read the order back to us and they still screwed the whole thing up


I too get annoyed with fast food chains, But after my daughter has worked for one I understand that it is a very thankless job and often high-pressure during peak hours. It may not seem so to us but think of it from a young, inexperienced persons point of view. And for those duds that you get... Their high turnover rate makes it impossible to train or to keep good employees. Those that are hard-working move on quickly to better jobs. I try to be as patient as I can with those that are clearly new and learning.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

dradlin said:


> Tough crowd.
> 
> One guy in the organization is confused in the moment by the term "single coil sized humbucker" and the whole organization gets trashed?
> 
> ...


"single coil sized humbucker"

not in the most remote areas of the world is that not a good description, of what it is.

A humbucker that is the size of a single coil.

As for the rest of your descriptors, (tone, windings etc) that comes _after_ myself and the salesman come to an understanding of what I am after.

As for the notion he could smoke my butt playing wise, is a complete non starter. It is unessesary and irrelevant to his performance of *his job 
*
These 2 attitudes show why service has gone in the toilet in retail.

1) it is not the job of the customer to educate sales staff.

2) the staff and management must at least try to care about their customers.


So yes it is an organizational failure.


oh yes, comparing it to a fast food outlet is absurd. 
Music production specialty store vs burger joint.

As a customer I should expect someone who works at a specialty store to be at least educated about what he is selling


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

djmarcelca said:


> "single coil sized humbucker"
> 
> not in the most remote areas of the world is that not a good description, of what it is.
> 
> ...


Lighten up dude... it's far from an organization failure. At worst it's the smallest of a misstep. Flaming L&M here certainly isn't going to solve anything.

Go play your guitar and forget about it...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

I don't see much reason for an excuse here, last time I checked L&M had computers on the counter. A simple online search by the employee would have cleared up the situation in less time than it took me to type this. Look at the picture, check the display case... is it really that hard?


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## jtienhaara (Dec 4, 2013)

dradlin said:


> ... There is as much ignorance in that as the employee may have demonstrated in the moment.
> 
> ... Perhaps there is much that individual could teach you (or smoke you butt playing guitar), it just so happens that pickup knowledge wasn't his strength that day.



Wow. A guy complains about incompetence at your favourite donut shop erm music store, and you turn around and insult him. Why?

I was enjoying this thread until now. There were some great stories of both incompetence and competence. Now it's interweb flame wars as usual.

Unsubscribed.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

djmarcelca said:


> oh yes, comparing it to a fast food outlet is absurd.
> Music production specialty store vs burger joint.
> 
> As a customer I should expect someone who works at a specialty store to be at least educated about what he is selling


You'd expect that even though the employees in both the music store and the fast food joint are probably being paid the same money?


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Maybe we could chalk this up to a few people having a bad day and let's move on... 

Big-box stores arent for everybody. Little stores have their share of crappy service and selection... The key is to find a shop that you enjoy dealing with, that serves your needs or ordering online, or through your local, independent tech guy


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

jtienhaara said:


> Wow. A guy complains about incompetence at your favourite donut shop erm music store, and you turn around and insult him. Why?


I have no particular affinity for L&M. I expect no more from them than I do Sears or Canadian Tire.

Flaming some guy working at L&M (and the whole organization) because he didn't understand pickup lingo in a moment of conversation IMHO is unreasonable. If someone is going to start a flame thread then don't expect others to join their flame campaign and expect some push back. 



jtienhaara said:


> I was enjoying this thread until now. There were some great stories of both incompetence and competence. Now it's interweb flame wars as usual.


Because someone expresses a moderate view and doesn't join the flame throwing, you get bent out of shape?



jtienhaara said:


> Unsubscribed.


Relax man...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

dradlin said:


> Tough crowd. One guy in the organization is confused in the moment by the term "single coil sized humbucker" and the whole organization gets trashed?
> 
> And besides, "single coil sized humbucker" alone is an ambiguous term... there are many varieties all with individual outputs and tonal characteristics. Then there are wind and polarity concerns to ensure complimentary phasing. Let's also not forget about 2-wire or 4-wire.
> 
> ...


The tone of this message reminds of an attitude for which the Mississauga L&M location especially is somewhat infamous. Any connection?

The knowledge you demonstrate about pickups is not something requiring years of experience or study. All of L&M's employees who take enquiries about guitars should know it, and should also know to say "I'm sorry sir, I don't know, let me check with someone, would you hold please?" if they don't know.

Only a bad employee - bad for customers, bad for business - asks no questions and simply says "We don't have it" to a customer request. An L&M employee who doesn't know the products and/or to ask someone else if they don't should work in a donut shop... maybe not even there!


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

boyscout said:


> The tone of this message reminds of an attitude for which the Mississauga L&M location especially is somewhat infamous. Any connection?


None, no where close to there, and no affiliation with the one local to me.

I've said my piece - go ahead flame me, L&M, whatever...






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I've had poor service locally at mom and pop stores too.

One in particular, I was trying out a Tiny Terror combo,
then asked to plug into the Orange Crush they had there.
The owners son, who I assume will inherit the business,
was claiming that they're two different animals, which I knew already,
but I could tell that he was trying his best to steer me towards the higher sale.
I knew that the Crush was solid state and the TT was tube, 
but he made the remark that the Crush was made in China, like it was a deterrent.
So, I spun the TT around and low and behold, MIC. Douche move.

At another store that is one of the only ones that carry any kind of boutique pedals,
wasn't aware of any Canadian builders and thought that Wampler was Canadian. Ugh.
That was the owner that I was dealing with.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

At least once a week I run into someone that just doesn't have a clue on what they are talking about or are lazy or just plain dumb. It doesn't matter if it's Tim Horton's, Home Depot or L&M. I try not to let the morons in the world bother me. Take L&M for example. I met a great sales guy who knows what he is talking about so I only deal with him. If I'm going to Home Depot I research what I'm looking for first so I already know the answers. Everyday we run into morons but it really isn't fair to blame the company they work for. If that was the case then every store, business etc on the planet would suck.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

Sure it's disappointing to get less than stellar service,but at least you have access to multiple sources of large inventories .
For me it's a 140km,three hour return trip(taking at least bit of browsing into account ) just to see if I experience good or bad service at a L&M.
Mom & pop stores are few and far between too .
It's all what you make of it .


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i worked retail in my first job. at 17, i fully understood it was my job to know what was what around that store. (lighting and electrical supply) i spent my extra time investigating the products we carried and what their capabilities were, intended use, etc. i looked through the catalogs and inquired as to what were our budget lines and what was more high end. people at mcdonald's made more than me, i made 3.35/hr under the table. mikey d's made min wage, a dollar more. i was not unusual in this regard. my peers also were well aware of this philosophy and followed to what ever degree their ambition dictated to them, relative to their career. those of you willing to except incompetent staff, listen up - it's time for *all of you* to accept responsibility for creating the shitty lack of customer service, and terrible selection, that is the standard here. you are 100% to blame. you. shopping in most of america is far more pleasant and productive experience, and it's because in a general sense, americans will vote with their wallet. canadians, not so much. if you do not demand excellence you dam sure ain't never gonna get it.


this has been a public service announcement by the cheezyridr association for canadian consumer standards, ont. 

hahahahahaha


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

TA462 said:


> I met a great sales guy who knows what he is talking about so I only deal with him.
> 
> If I'm going to Home Depot I research what I'm looking for first so I already know the answers.


Two excellent points right there. I deal with suppliers daily. I've learned to deal with specific people within an organization because they have knowledge and consistency. I can't stand it when my supplier switches up their inside sales with greenhorns... 

As for knowing what you're looking for; The way I see you have two choices; 
1) Go in with minimal knowledge and hope that the salesperson is going to give you what you need or want,
2) Do a little bit of fact-finding on the net. It's goes for anything you're looking to purchase. Your chances of getting what you really want are exponentially better...it helps you weed through sales people that don't know what they're talking about and protects you from being hosed. Sometimes advice from a sales person can be legit and sometimes it could be slanted towards their best profit. With the internet at everybody's fingertips there's no reason you shouldn't know what you're going to buy. We're not talking about hundreds of hours worth of research here.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

While I agree with 95% of your post(cheezyr),one only has to open any US based guitar forum to find multiple examples of GC service bashing threads.

L&M is the Canadian equivalent of Guitar Center,thereby I suggest to you...

Guitar players are whiny bitches with severe entitlement issues . :sCh_odie:


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

Bubb said:


> Guitar players are whiny bitches with severe entitlement issues . :sCh_odie:



LOLOL, my wife just said that to me this past weekend, lolol.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

laristotle said:


> sit back and enjoy the chaos. is what I tend to think at the warehouse I work at.
> the incompetence used to frustrate the heck out of me. now I take advantage of
> it. it's more fun. I found that over the past coupla' decades, business has focused
> on people with the 'right attitude' to be advanced in managerial positions (ie. ass kissers).
> qualifications are a secondary (sometimes irrelevant) concern.


Perhaps a change of companies is in order. If yours promotes ass kissers the future should be limited for both the company and those who don't smooch the brown eye.

In modern industry (at least the one I'm in) management is far to lean to absorb those who only advance based on suck holing.

- - - Updated - - -



Bubb said:


> While I agree with 95% of your post(cheezyr),one only has to open any US based guitar forum to find multiple examples of GC service bashing threads.
> 
> L&M is the Canadian equivalent of Guitar Center,thereby I suggest to you...
> 
> Guitar players are whiny bitches with severe entitlement issues . :sCh_odie:


Actually I suggest you find a smaller local shop and pay a bit more for better, more personal service. If you shop based solely on price, you get what you get.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Bubb said:


> Guitar players are whiny bitches with severe entitlement issues . :sCh_odie:


Bingo That sums it up totally and a lot of them bitches are on this forum


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2014)

How many guitarists does it take to screw in a light bulb? 3 (or more). 
One to do it. The others standing around saying 'I could do that!'.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

laristotle said:


> How many guitarists does it take to screw in a light bulb? 3 (or more).
> One to do it. The others standing around saying 'I could do that!'.


I say it's lots more. You forgot all the guys that said " that lightbulb isn't made by "X company"... It's a piece of junk"


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

On any forum you'll always find armchair warriors touting what should or shouldn't be, the pious preaching to the congregation, yet if we were to examine their workplace I'm sure we'd find the same things that are being discussed here, lack of product awareness, unmotivated staff, sloppy customer service. Is it the absolute rule that should govern every location or branch and employee? No. Is every customer going to get the same level of *oops* as the OP had? No. But like that age old saying...satisfy one customer and you'll be lucky if they tell someone else....do a customer wrong..and the whole world will know. IMHO I think L&M is quite adequate considering they don't specialize in just one instrument, they carry a vast array of products, have a rental department, do in-house financing, have a repair shop, transfer stock from one end of the country to the other even if it's a used item for next to nothing, order in practically anything you want that's on their list of suppliers, send you email reminders when your order is in or your instrument has been repaired. I could go on...but do I need to? Whiney bitches.....you've been served.

p.s. does every Tim Hortons in Saskatchewan make watered down coffee...I swear every time I drive through I can never get a decent one.....there's my whiney bitch of the day


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

DrHook;541067
p.s. does every Tim Hortons in Saskatchewan make watered down coffee...I swear every time I drive through I can never get a decent one.[/QUOTE said:


> It's not just Saskatchewan. That's Tim Horton's coffee across the nation.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

DrHook;541067
p.s. does every Tim Hortons in Saskatchewan make watered down coffee...I swear every time I drive through I can never get a decent one.[/QUOTE said:


> It's not just Saskatchewan. That's Tim Horton's coffee across the nation.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

DrHook said:


> On any forum you'll always find armchair warriors touting what should or shouldn't be, the pious preaching to the congregation, yet if we were to examine their workplace I'm sure we'd find the same things that are being discussed here, lack of product awareness, unmotivated staff, sloppy customer service.



you wont find that on any of my jobs. you've gotta be certified by the ontario college of trades to even be allowed on site. it's a 4 hour test. few pass the first time


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

cheezyridr said:


> you wont find that on any of my jobs. you've gotta be certified by the ontario college of trades to even be allowed on site. it's a 4 hour test. few pass the first time


I'm glad you think highly of what you do, pride in workmanship is honorable. But....no company runs at 100% efficiency and NEVER makes a mistake or has absolute perfection even with new trainees. Which is kind of what some posters in this thread expect from a retail chain.


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## bluesguitar1972 (Jul 16, 2011)

As with any retailer, you sometimes get duds in customer service. I'd agree, any guitar specialist should have known what you were talking about, and any good customer service rep would have gotten help if they didn't know. Having said that, the reps @ my local L&M are helpful and knowledgeable in their respective departments. I've not had any issues with their service, and typically their pricing is very competitive. It's unfortunate when a customer has a poor experience, but it happens in every business.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

So we're whiney bitches now? Nice.

I wasn't complaining about an employee, if you'd read my post, it was the owners, ffs.

You'll wind up dead in my industry if you have no clue.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

it only proves my earlier point to be correct. the entire reason why the service and selection is so shitty here is because people would rather fight for other's right to be incompetent, than demand respect. frankly if they accept it for themselves, i don't care. if you want to work your ass off for your money and be treated like a shit heel for it, then whatever. the part that pisses me off, is that those people's lack of a spine affects me/the rest of us as well. it's always a few bad apples that screw things up for the majority, isn't it?


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

sulphur said:


> So we're whiney bitches now? Nice.
> 
> I wasn't complaining about an employee, if you'd read my post, it was the owners, ffs.


 relax 'twas just in jest

hence odie :sCh_odie:


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

My Day job, I work in the service industry, and a high pressure one at that

I fix cars. I'm the tune up/electronics guy at my shop. 
Engine codes, install remote starters, stereos. and the run of the mill repair stuff.

I see many guys come into my shop as tire installers, and registered apprentices, that completely wash out because of diagnostic errors they make, and then there's problems and the customer comes back howling bloody murder. The manager doesn't put up with it for long. Why? Because it make us look bad.

It makes us look bad.

That's the whole statement right there.
If your employee screws up, doesn't matter how small, It makes the entire organization look bad. 
What really got me steamed was the lack of caring from the manager. 

These are the points of this thread, Echoed by two or three guys.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

cheezyridr said:


> it only proves my earlier point to be correct. the entire reason why the service and selection is so shitty here is because people would rather fight for other's right to be incompetent, than demand respect. frankly if they accept it for themselves, i don't care. if you want to work your ass off for your money and be treated like a shit heel for it, then whatever. the part that pisses me off, is that those people's lack of a spine affects me/the rest of us as well. it's always a few bad apples that screw things up for the majority, isn't it?


Welcome to Canada Cheezy, where we're too out of it to understand we cause our own problems by making mediocrity (at best) the standard...


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

sulphur said:


> So we're whiney bitches now? Nice.
> 
> I wasn't complaining about an employee, if you'd read my post, it was the owners, ffs.
> 
> You'll wind up dead in my industry if you have no clue.


My use of the term was a tongue in cheek poke at Bubb's attempt at infusing a comical "summation" of some of the people in this thread. It's true that a LOT of fields of employment require near perfection if not perfection that may or may not result in a life or death situation. I happen to agree with your view that the trouble starts at the top, ineffective management affects every part of a business's operation. I think where some people are losing the plot in this thread, is comparing highly skilled occupations to a retail industry that takes in people with no experience or long term training before hand. By experience I'm referring to retail sales and long term exposure to the types of customer needs that can arise. Usually positions like this in any industry are referred to as "entry level" and overall that's the person that we as customers are most likely to encounter first and as suggested by others it's a good idea to find a person or store (whether L&M or otherwise) that YOU feel comfortable with making a connection. 

It's kind of interesting to note too that the economy also plays a part in how effective a business is, do they cut corners just to keep the doors open or can they afford to hire the best people to represent them? That's a whole 'nuther argument but again..I think that would depend on the effectiveness of management coming up with the right attitude and strategy to make it work.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

I doubt that one is for sulpher he just coasts along.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

> shopping in most of america is far more pleasant and productive experience, and it's because in a general sense, americans will vote with their wallet.


Just to be clear,this was the line that brought on the "comment ".... by extension,if americans complain about a "pleasant and productive experience" in virtually the same environment..therefore,guitar players,as a collective,*not individuals*, must be whiny bitches .

long winter I guess


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

I really don't want to get involved in this flame game & will keep my mouth shut ... but if you had actually e-mailed 
(or if it actually got through) Steve he would be on top of it... that is his thing


p


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I think that it was mentioned earlier in the thread that all the employee had to do was ask.
That's a big thing in heavy industry, if you don't know, ask.

On one job, you could bite the biscuit, on the other, you could chase away a customer.
Obviously, in retail, customers are the lifeblood, so screw up enough, you're done.

I'd blame the management if he wasn't told this, or the employee if they were.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, I do vote with my wallet, as I don't shop much at that retailer with the Orange amps I mentioned earlier.

I went there before last Xmas, as they are the only Seagull dealers.
While I was there last time, I asked if they'd ever got a Fallout in, as they are the only G&L dealers in town too.
That same guy looked at me strange and asked what a Fallout was. Oy.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

sulphur said:


> I think that it was mentioned earlier in the thread that all the employee had to do was ask.
> That's a big thing in heavy industry, if you don't know, ask.
> 
> On one job, you could bite the biscuit, on the other, you could chase away a customer.
> ...


So, what's a Fallout? I'm not familiar with G & L very much, so I don't know. But if I worked at this shop for three months without any prior knowledge, I would know as I am an old catalogue guy and would have looked it up. Some people have no inclination that way. Even in my business, we send new supplier catalogues to all out people and when we show them a new piece of equipment about 90% of them didn't know it was available.

Those are the buyers. The seller, though, should know in a very short time.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

parkhead said:


> I really don't want to get involved in this flame game & will keep my mouth shut ... but if you had actually e-mailed
> (or if it actually got through) Steve he would be on top of it... that is his thing p


This has been lobbed in pretty late in the thread and it's not certain who or what parkhead is talking about. However it does look like a response to my post on page 1 about one of my own complaints with L&M.

My story was certainly not a "flame", except maybe to a sensitive L&M employee. The fail occurred nearly two years ago so details about what email address I used or how I got it are lost (though I almost certainly called Yorkville Sound's main number and asked for the email address.) It's not hard to retain a clear memory of "actually" sending an email and receiving no response, including no bounce-back notice.

As one of the "whiney bitches" here I'm pretty experienced at writing polite and effective complaints that usually get results when I've been poorly served so being "on top of it" is apparently not Steve Long's "thing" all of the time.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Steadfastly said:


> So, what's a Fallout? I'm not familiar with G & L very much, so I don't know. But if I worked at this shop for three months without any prior knowledge, I would know as I am an old catalogue guy and would have looked it up. Some people have no inclination that way. Even in my business, we send new supplier catalogues to all out people and when we show them a new piece of equipment about 90% of them didn't know it was available.
> 
> Those are the buyers. The seller, though, should know in a very short time.


It's a new model out last year in the US line and the Tribute line.
It's based off the SC model, but wasn't even in the dealer book that he had.
I'm sure that the dealers were made aware of the model when it was released.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> So, what's a Fallout? I'm not familiar with G & L very much, so I don't know.


From an earlier Fallout thread:



Steadfastly said:


> P-90 and a HB. Interesting combination. I can't remember seeing that combination before.





Steadfastly said:


> Bubb, thanks for the reply.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

sulphur said:


> It's a new model out last year in the US line and the Tribute line.
> It's based off the SC model, but wasn't even in the dealer book that he had.
> I'm sure that the dealers were made aware of the model when it was released.


I guess you could say there was a fallout over the Fallout. Sorry, just couldn't resist.:smile-new:


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Well, I learned something new here. Haven't kept up with the retail end of things, and I was wondering "why would he call it a single-coil sized humbucker instead of a stack"? 
So I found out they now have side by side (not stacked) humbuckers that fit a single coil cut-out. That's cool but I'm not that surprised some kid didn't know what it was. Fairly new tech, no?

On the other hand, my biggest beef with retail is not being able to talk to the sales guy because he's got a phone stuck to his head. If there are customers on the floor needing to be served, phones should go to voice-mail.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

jb welder said:


> On the other hand, my biggest beef with retail is not being able to talk to the sales guy because he's got a phone stuck to his head. _*If there are customers on the floor needing to be served, phones should go to voice-mail.*_


I quit my job as parts manager at Lennox for this very thing. Upper management wanted out people to do both. It was one of the best moves I've made. I'm glad they forced me into it.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

jb welder said:


> So I found out they now have side by side (not stacked) humbuckers that fit a single coil cut-out. That's cool but I'm not that surprised some kid didn't know what it was. Fairly new tech, no?
> 
> On the other hand, my biggest beef with retail is not being able to talk to the sales guy because he's got a phone stuck to his head. If there are customers on the floor needing to be served, phones should go to voice-mail.


They're not really new but not too old either. 
If you go to dimarzio's website, they show which year they were introduced. Most are from the mid to late 1990's


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## robare99 (Jan 9, 2012)

I've only ever had good dealings with L&M


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## doriangrey (Mar 29, 2011)

robare99 said:


> I've only ever had good dealings with L&M


Me too...the guys at my local L & M are great! I've bought lots of stuff there and I've never walked out unhappy...sure, you need to be patient with new staff but on the whole I think they do a great job there...always friendly and helpful, great return policy with no questions asked and they take almost anything on trade-in... I like going there


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> I quit my job as parts manager at Lennox for this very thing. Upper management wanted out people to do both. It was one of the best moves I've made. I'm glad they forced me into it.


They are probably extremely happy about you leaving too.



doriangrey said:


> Me too...the guys at my local L & M are great! I've bought lots of stuff there and I've never walked out unhappy...sure, you need to be patient with new staff but on the whole I think they do a great job there...always friendly and helpful, great return policy with no questions asked and they take almost anything on trade-in... I like going there


I have a great local L&M too. I even sold some pickups to a young fellow and he asked to meet me there. I think the guy is the manager...walks up and vouched for me immediately. I had had quite a number of conversations with him and brought back a fancy Rockstand when I was given 2 for price of 1 erroneously. I think the young guy's Mom must have mentioned to the guy that she was uneasy about a kijiji stranger deal.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

_____________


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

I also bought my first Gibson from L&M and my first tube amp. I got it on the 0% for a year thing. That's the only way I would ever finance gear unless I was in a completely different situation.


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## Yorkville (Mar 18, 2010)

boyscout said:


> How 'bout the reverse of your experience, wouldn't that piss you off a little more?!
> 
> I was looking for a Voodoo Lab pedal switcher, hardly anybody was carrying them, but the L&M web site said the Scarborough store had one.
> 
> ...


I am sorry to hear about the problems you encountered with your purchase. Steve Long is very active with customer responses and I'm sure the only reason you did not get a response was that he never received your email. I have sent you a private message with his email address. Please reach out to him again.


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## Yorkville (Mar 18, 2010)

djmarcelca said:


> I'm in the modding mood, and want to add a single coil sized humbucker to my strat.
> I was in one of the 5 location of L&M in Edmonton about 3 weeks ago and noticed that they had one or 2 in the showcase, didn't look at them at that time as I was looking for something else.
> 
> Fast forward 3 weeks.
> ...


Hello, depending the language you used talking to the sales representative, there could be room for confusion. The term "Single coil sized humbuckers" could be a little misleading. Single coils come in many different sizes (Strat style, Tele Style, P90 Style, Dog-ear P90 style, etc...) and without mentioning what guitar you are installing these in, it is exceptionally difficult to get a proper answer. I am glad you were able to locate the pickup you wanted in the end and I'm sure this was a simple communication problem.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Just for the record, I've had good experiences with L&M.

I've been in a few brick and mortar stores and I have dealt some online with the Mississauga store.
I hadn't any trouble in either situation, positive experiences.

Earlier in this thread, I tried to illustrate that you can get poor service from even the owners of a store.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Not knowing the difference between a single coil sized humbucker and a mini humbucker is pretty bad.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I've only had good experiences with staff as well. By and large they are helpful and friendly.


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## Davestp1 (Apr 25, 2006)

I've only ever bought a few smaller parts, picks etc from the L&M here and never had a problem. 

Now, Intercontinental Music, that is a place to avoid. There is a lengthy post on this site about them....


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

L&M'S 30 day return policy and regular no interest financing is enough for me to overlook any sales staff shortcomings. 

That being said I've always found the staff helpful and courteous. I've never personally had any problems with them.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I'm just glad Yorkville was smart and joined the forum to address consumer complaints. I've seen other companies at my other board and it's good to see that they are listening to people.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

Yorkville said:


> Hello, depending the language you used talking to the sales representative, there could be room for confusion. The term "Single coil sized humbuckers" could be a little misleading. Single coils come in many different sizes (Strat style, Tele Style, P90 Style, Dog-ear P90 style, etc...) and without mentioning what guitar you are installing these in, it is exceptionally difficult to get a proper answer. I am glad you were able to locate the pickup you wanted in the end and I'm sure this was a simple communication problem.



Single coil sized humbucker.

How much more of a description can that be?

As was mentioned earlier in the thread, they're new but not very. Been around since the mid 90's.
I'll grant you that confusion can surround P90 vs mini humbucker because of the similar size and shape. But SCHB are almost all dual rail type pickups that do not even resemble single coils aside from the size.
I could even accept confusion over a single coil vs stacked humbucker be cause of the similar shape and appearance. 


I don't think it was lack of communication, I think it was poor training.
the first question a customer sakes when calling a L&M is for the department they are calling for. 
Then, ask about a general product- single coil sized humbucker

Then; after both people on the phone know what they are talking about, the rest of the sale can proceed.
Guitar type being fitted, wiring type, pickup vocalization, what the customer is after,
finally closing the sale by asking for the sale,
"Want me to put this aside for you?, we're open until 6 pm. I can only hold it until then though" 

I'm still surprised this thread is going, I was more than ready to let it drop, but since your user name is Yorkville, and you replied to my post I figured I'd do the same. 


It is is also interesting that this example of poor customer service garnered 11 pages of replies, but the contrasting good customer service from Dimarzio thread only garnered 3 replies total. One was dripping with sarcasm.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

nkjanssen said:


> If your horrible customer experience was that one particular sales guy didn't know the difference between a single-coil sized humbucker and a mini-humbucker, I think you're doing alright.



It wasn't just that, it was the overall lack of "give a shit" when I spoke to the manager about his sales staff. 
That steamed me more than the initial screw up.

But I guess I'm turning into my father as I age. I actually expect people to know their jobs well enough to do them. 


But think of it this way:

If sales guy doesn't know the difference on a loose pickup purchase....How do I have confidence that he would direct me to the correct guitar should I wish to purchase one?

A 16 year old kid who want to play heavy metal might leave with a standard strat instead of a Jackson.
He might get sold a gDEC instead of a high gain amp.

It's customer confidence.
between him and the manager, they shot mine to hell at that location. 

If you also go back in this thread, there's another location I like going to because the staff there is very good and very knowledgable. 

They are also staff of a re-branded store that L&M took over.

- - - Updated - - -

I also think it's time to let this thread fall away into memory.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

djmarcelca said:


> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> *I also think it's time to let this thread fall away into memory*.


I love great words of wisdom.....

G.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

djmarcelca said:


> I also think it's time to let this thread fall away into memory.


Well, let's do that then but you should know that at least I am with you...you called to know whether or not you should drive over there. Not only that but simple questions deserve simple answers that are correct.

What if your question would have been "do you have a Les Paul Custom in stock and ready to go? I am playing the arena tonight and my main guitar just got broken in a vehicle collision. My spare guitars were just stolen"?

If you got that kid you might waste a fair amount of time and effort.

It doesn't matter that I like my L&M and it doesn't matter if everyone else loves theirs. Sure I give Yorkville some kudos for addressing the issue here but any time anyone ever has said "single coil sized humbucker" in my entire life, it has ALWAYS BEEN FOR A STRAT or a strat style pickup.


So...I'm with you 100%.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## doriangrey (Mar 29, 2011)

I give L & M credit for posting here and offering to discuss further. I think they do a good job in their stores overall...


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

nkjanssen said:


> Anytime someone has said it in my entire life, it's ALWAYS BEEN FOR A TELE BRIDGE PICKUP.
> 
> ...not that it's in any way relevant to the point of this thread, but I had to get it out there.


Well that's ok...but I have never seen anyone on a guitar forum ask about those...and if you do a Google search for "single coil sized humbucker" like I just did, (I skipped the two sites by manufacturers and the image results) there were 4 results on Fender Forums all for Strats (I skipped the eBay link) then 3 more for Strats and a video by seymour duncan...and then, the first hit for a Tele came up.

No more relevant...but hey, if someone in the guitar department can't say "what style guitar is this for?" then they should be the fry guy at the burger joint.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Well, that's just mean.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Credit due to Yorkdale for chiming in, but it's a no win for them because what the OP and some others have noted is mostly true, to be fair it's pretty much everywhere in the retail and service industry here in Southern Ontario - I think it has to do with a poor crop of sales employees to choose from (probably because the job doesn't offer any real incentives) and poor management (for the same reason)

Before I tell you my last fail experience with them I'll just say that to me a "single coil sized humbucker" is a humbucker that fit's into one of the 3 slots in a strat pickguard that's cut for SSS - of course that means that it could theoretically also fit in a tele bridge, but to me it's for a Strat.

I called L&M Markham a few years back, about a year after the initial release of Epi's 339, and asked "do you have any stock on Epi's new 339, the ones released about a year ago", to which sales guy responded "yes, and in a couple of colours". So the next day I drive the 50k or so down there only to walk in and find myself staring at a wall of guitars without a single Epi 339 in sight - so I ask at the desk "where are the Epi 339's"?, and the sales guy points to an Epi Dot and says "there's one and there are a couple more over there", pointing at 2 more DOTS.

So after I explain exactly what an Epi 339 is, find out they actually don't have one and tell him he really ought to google "guitar forum" (imagine... using the interweb to help you understand your job... novel idea), he gives me the bottom line - "ah, I can order you one", no thanks I said "I'm off to The Arts" (they didn't have any either)


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Jimmy_D said:


> I called L&M Markham a few years back, about a year after the initial release of Epi's 339, and asked "do you have any stock on Epi's new 339, the ones released about a year ago", to which sales guy responded "yes, and in a couple of colours". So the next day I drive the 50k or so down there only to walk in and find myself staring at a wall of guitars without a single Epi 339 in sight - so I ask at the desk "where are the Epi 339's"?, and the sales guy points to an Epi Dot and says "there's one and there are a couple more over there", pointing at 2 more DOTS.
> 
> So after I explain exactly what an Epi 339 is, find out they actually don't have one and tell him he really ought to google "guitar forum" (imagine... using the interweb to help you understand your job... novel idea), he gives me the bottom line - "ah, I can order you one", no thanks I said "I'm off to The Arts" (they didn't have any either)


I'd be livid too and have said my piece. Actually, I would have discussed with the manager. But we have established that this does happen everywhere else, not just L&M. 
So, what does Joe Public have to do? Demand better service would be a start. Rag on the manager, that's what they are there for. I've done it. Hell, it gets you deals. 
I don't mean to be a droll or A-wipe, but if you get crappy service or put at a disadvantage, say so.

What's wrong with saying: "Dude, phone her back, I've things to do" I'm sure there's a myriad of lines, some more fun than others


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

nkjanssen said:


> It's a matter of expectations, I suppose. In my world, the onus is on _you_ to figure that out. Salesmen are there to facilitate the transaction, provide you with options, arrange a purchase plan that works, etc., etc. They're not really there to help you make a decision. I realize some people do think they are there to do that. Even a lot of salesmen think they are there to do that. To me, though, they're not. So, a salesmen not knowing much about replacement pickups is completely and utterly irrelevant to anything I actually need them to do for me. Telling me something isn't in stock when it actually is? Yah, that's a screw-up. To me, it's pretty minor though.


Could not agree more. I never understood the concept of asking a minimum wage earner in a box store of any kind, advice on how I am going to spend my money. May as well ask somebody on the street. Know what you need prior to going in, you will be much better off and if you need advice get it from someone who knows what they are talking about and is over 19 years of age. All I need from the sales people is to point me to where its at.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

djmarcelca said:


> It is is also interesting that this example of poor customer service garnered 11 pages of replies, but the contrasting good customer service from Dimarzio thread only garnered 3 replies total. One was dripping with sarcasm.


A survey showed that if a customer had a bad buying experience, on average they would tell 12 people. Conversely, if they had a good experience, they would tell 3 people. It shows how important it is to keep your customers happy.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

It also typically costs more to gain a customer than to keep a customer.


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## corailz (May 1, 2008)

I went to the new L&M location in Laval today and was happy to see alot of the staff that was working there before(When it was a Italmelodie) and it was really nice to talk to them as it was really smooth and they even told me about the improvements to come soon in the store! 
L&M also acquired a little storein Montreal a couple years ago, but, as Pattse told, it's far to be as nice as the Laval's store!
about the Montreal store, for thoses that known Centre Musical Ahuntsic(Before the L&M Montreal's location), there's not really much staff left today because the ex owner's childs were not interested to take back the store at all and he died in a motorcycle accident a couple time after the sale of the store to L&M.

About the customer service, i could blast against Steve's store in MTL or even Italmelodie where i've had a couple of bad buying experiences , but, i've started riding motorcycle last year and last week i was looking for a helmet for my wife and found a really nice one on sale at a dealer near me! This dealer is a really renown one with two stores and the 
nicest and finest brands of motorcycles and gear , but they advertised a couple of really good helmets on sale on their website, btu they didn't even shown the available size....So i called before going there for nothing, and as i was asking them to tell me what size were available for the two models i was looking for, they just asked me to describe the helmets 'cause they don't know the models!!!!!!Even the sales director was f**ked!I couldn't believe my ears!


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

One of the most essential thing in business, any business is what I call the "callback". My industry is in the trades, but it works the same. You want to be who your customer immediately calls the instant they need something else. Their next call is like a gift. You didn't have to advertise or cold call to get it. They called because they were pleased form previous experience...Without "callbacks", you spend a lot of effort finding new business or hope it walks through your door.

Repeat business is everything


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Yes, if you have no repeat business, you soon have _no_ business.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> A survey showed that if a customer had a bad buying experience, on average they would tell 12 people. Conversely, if they had a good experience, they would tell 3 people. It shows how important it is to keep your customers happy.



probably true. when i finally get my money from newegg.ca i'm going on every forum i ever knew and posting all the b.s. they pulled. i will do my level best to make sure as many people as possible think twice before buying from them.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

Don't forget this thread had a lot of positive comments too. I'm a very happy L&M customer who has bought 6 guitars from them over the last couple of years. Why? Great customer service and one employee who goes out of his way to make me a satisfied customer. If your ever in the Oshawa store look up Bill Gillespie, great guy.


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## Noise Supply (May 31, 2013)

I don't go to L&M very often, and haven't been in a long time - I've had a mix of positive and negative interactions with staff there, but for certain items and convenience, it can be the best place to go to.

The one thing I'd like to mention is for the Edmonton South location... Look for a tall guy with red hair. I don't know his name or if he even still works there, but I pretty much b-line it for him if I ever needed anything when I went there. He knows the gear very well, he has no problem recommending solutions that might not be available at L&M, and he has opinions that are valuable, honest, and that you can relate to.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

One thing I try to do when fielding phone questions from customers is ask for details myself if I'm not totally clear as to what they're inquiring about.
Getting a description or more detail will make everybody happier by expediting the process regardless whether it's in stock or not.
My 2 cents from an employee from that "other" store ;-)


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

As I mentioned before I have no beef with L & M. The staff have pretty well been mannerly and helpful. 

I did have an amusing experience with a young chap in the Dartmouth store a few months ago. He was trying to explain the difference in the quality over of one guitar over another. I politely listened to him and was glancing now and again at some of the other staff in the store who I guess knew a lot more than this kid and their body language suggested that "there goes that kid trying to impress the customer with all his knowledge again". I politely listened and then explained to him why those arguments didn't hold water. Then I asked him about harmonicas, which I had really come in to purchase. He didn't know anything about harmonicas so I got one of the older gents to help me.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Then I asked him about harmonicas, which I had really come in to purchase. He didn't know anything about harmonicas so I got one of the older gents to help me.


Didn't know anything about harmonicas? Blasphemy!

That proves that L&M shouldn't be in the business of selling musical instruments.

Sorry, I couldn't resist... forgive me please.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

dradlin said:


> Didn't know anything about harmonicas? Blasphemy!
> 
> That proves that L&M shouldn't be in the business of selling musical instruments.
> 
> ...


Maybe, but Lee Oskar wouldn't...


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

dradlin said:


> Didn't know anything about harmonicas? Blasphemy!
> 
> That proves that L&M shouldn't be in the business of selling musical instruments.
> 
> ...


Well, the kid was still a bit wet behind the ears.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

Steadfastly said:


> Then I asked him about harmonicas, which I had really come in to purchase. He didn't know anything about harmonicas so I got one of the older gents to help me.



Actually that proves the kid's got some common sense. 
He might have been wrong about whatever he was explaining to you. But he knew his limits.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

djmarcelca said:


> Actually that proves the kid's got some common sense.
> He might have been wrong about whatever he was explaining to you.


'Might' would be the pivotal word in this case...my money's on 'the kid was right'.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

They sold me an apple that tasted like a banana.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

nkjanssen said:


> I once had an apple that tasted like a grape.
> 
> It was unnerving.


I once planted cucumbers next to melons and they cross pollinated and the melons tasted closer to cucumbers than melons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

I am not a big fan of L&M because they are pretty well taking over musical instrument retail. But I have to admit I have never had a problem with staff at the one near me. They might not know it all but their attitude is A1. 
Now the competing store in my area which also sells Gibson and Fender products have got the last red cent out of me because of a rotten employee that is down right surly and the owners just let him run because he is a good player which they are not.


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