# Career Change!



## Supro (Dec 17, 2007)

Hello everyone, well its that time of year where I do a review of where ive been and where im going, only this year, im trying to find other avenues and would like to hear you guys on some interogations I have!

Im 40 years old, ive been a 'soundguy' professionally for 20 years, ive done pretty much everything there is to do soundwise, its now time for me to reduce the options and concentrate and put my efforts into one place.....here is why Im asking you guys for your opinions.

Music has always been a part of my personal life, but also proffesionally, ive recorded 3 Jazz albums/mixed/produced,done countless mixing on friends projects, I am a musician myself, professionally, ive always kept the music part of my job on the backburner, sort of like a hobby, the main reason was money.
Working on set for films/documentary/editing, has always been exponentially better moneywise than any music project.

Still I always kept coming back to the music because it really did make me feel good and satisfied....now these days im pretty sick of doing sound for film and everything else pertaining to this, I really want to jump in the music pool, regardless of money issues, Id rather be happy with less money than do what ive been doing for 20 years which is making good money,but burning it on stuff that makes me happy to compensate for my boredom I guess!!

So in other words im trying to simplify and bring back the music part in my life, and try to make a living out of that.

Sooooo, thanks for reading this far!!!, I want to get your opinions on a project I have that would help me do this.

I have collected over the years great vintage audio stuff and would like to put it to good use. 
Im thinking of offering a service where I could show up at any gig, proffesionally record it either stereo or multitrack, edit/mix it, deliver a proffesional recording at a great price, it could be all inclusive, you pay a fixed price, that includes everything, and you would get either a cd of the recording, a hard disk to mix it somewhere else, I could just be the quality "front end" and give you that to work the rest somewhere else, something like that.
I don't want to do weddings and gigs like that, I would want a little more than that since I would be offering a proffesional service.
So ya, youve got a good band, your preparing for a watermark gig that is important to you, you want to record it cause you know its going to be good, then you call me and I could deliver whatever you want......mixed, or just tracked to mix somewhere else, whatever, I have a portable rig with great equipment.
Here is a list of stuff I could use on these projects.........what do you guys think......is there a demand for this kind of stuff, or should I start looking for restaurants that need and assistant cook

Studer 169 mixer
RME Octamic and Fireface 800 units
AKG c12a mics (4)
collection of vintage condensor and dynamic mics for all types of situation/instruments
Digital multitrack/computer recording at 96KHz/could even show up with analog multitrack if you want.
Good collection of plugins on Digital Performer for mix/editing
can sync up to timecode for sync with visuals

So guys, Im asking you cause I want to hear it from the horses mouth, is this project worth the time and energy to put up??
Have you encountered this situation where you would of wanted the gig proffesionally recorded but either did not have the service available or was too expensive?
What do you think?

thanks for yer opinions
Happy Holidays


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I think the main problem you might encounter is the proliferation of cheap but surprisingly effective alternatives in terms of computer based and portable digital recording devices.


I think it's clear than a person such as yourself, with experience, knowledge and good analog equipment will generate a better sounding product, but will bands pay for it?

That's the question. I wish I could give you an answer instead of another question. I've come to the conclusion in my personal situation, that I have to do what I love and hope for the best when it comes to he money. That's why I work a day job. This allows me to make decisions regarding my musical activities that have less to do with money and more to do with music.

Best of luck if you follow through with this.

:food-smiley-004:


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

I recently noticed an add in the local kijiji (Kitchener Ont) for someone offering a similar service....if I recall correctly they were advertising as "mobile"...good thought and good luck
cheers
RIFF


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2007)

Produce.

Find some new bands. Give them a good rate. Make their first album sounds like gold. You get to play with all your vintage gear, put all your years of history to work for you, and when you hit that one band that does well you'll be set for life.


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## Vincent (Nov 24, 2007)

Not sure I would throw away a good job/jobs to do what you want to do...you said that you "always kept the music part of my job on the backburner, sort of like a hobby, the main reason was money.
Working on set for films/documentary/editing, has always been exponentially better moneywise than any music project."

Cant you do both?...I would keep my good paying job and do the other thing as a hobby/second job untill it becomes something you can make a decent living at...might be a lot of work however you wont regret leaving a good paying job.


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## Supro (Dec 17, 2007)

iaresee said:


> Produce.
> 
> Find some new bands. Give them a good rate. Make their first album sounds like gold. You get to play with all your vintage gear, put all your years of history to work for you, and when you hit that one band that does well you'll be set for life.


Well, I did just that last year as a hobby, its a Cuban Jazz band thought!
Still thats a good thought, but to me, its still a bit like winning the lottery.
I did this awsome band, set it up in my basement, which is kind of an open space but with some nooks and seperation.....I did alot of overdub style tracking basic tracks for a long time.....im back to basics now for about 5 years. So this band was done live no overdubs, took half a day placing the mics/players....liked the bleed/phase,... pressed record button and let these amazing player go at it, recorded at 96K, warm wooden room, lots of acoustic micking, just awsome.
Still, this player struggles to get by.
So anyway, if this band would get what they deserve, well ya, maybe I could follow them, do the live stuff, and record in all situations!
I actually talked to him yesterday,and thats what he wants to do.....he wants a sound guy that understands the particulars of Cuban jazz...( basically what I learned from him doing the album is that the rythm is composed of 5-6 different percussions, solo one and it sounds weird, put it in contecx and it fits.Also the dynamic range, since they have lots of acoustic stuff, the control their own range.)

I would love to work for this guy all year round!, but its a very long shot....so im trying to see if I can go more for working musicians who want good quality recordings for an honest(competitive!) price.
thanks for the replies.


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2007)

Supro said:


> Still thats a good thought, but to me, its still a bit like winning the lottery.


Not at all like winning the lottery. It's not the same thing as being in a band and going for it because the producer always gets paid, the band seldom makes money. You're going to have an upfront fee, plus points and bonuses if the album does really well. Want to make even more money? Be the label too.

If it's an unsigned band you're going to charge them a light fee per track plus points on the sales. Do a few of those, build a portfolio and then you start getting calls from labels, the friends of the bands you've done, etc. Now you're charging a bit more. Get a label calling and you're charing a lot more and you know you're getting paid because the label is just adding it up on the bands tab. You get paid before the band does, plus you get royalties.

There's a reason successful artists start their own labels and do production and writing gigs. That's what pays. That's the stuff you retire on.



> I did this awsome band, set it up in my basement, which is kind of an open space but with some nooks and seperation.....I did alot of overdub style tracking basic tracks for a long time.....im back to basics now for about 5 years. So this band was done live no overdubs, took half a day placing the mics/players....liked the bleed/phase,... pressed record button and let these amazing player go at it, recorded at 96K, warm wooden room, lots of acoustic micking, just awsome.


Don't confuse engineering with producing. If you're providing the studio as well as the engineer and the producing know how you can ask for even more. But producing is the best bet because you work independent of the technology and location.



> So anyway, if this band would get what they deserve, well ya, maybe I could follow them, do the live stuff, and record in all situations!


Think bigger man! Don't be their sound guy, be their producer. I keep saying that because a producer is more than just the guy who sets the levels. You're helping with arrangements, production techniques, mixing, budget, recording schedules, you're finding talent if it's missing the band, adding keyboards, taking away crummy vocals. You're the big picture guy.



> I would love to work for this guy all year round!, but its a very long shot....so im trying to see if I can go more for working musicians who want good quality recordings for an honest(competitive!) price.
> thanks for the replies.


I think you're selling yourself short just doing the "small studio" thing. You want to sell the space and gear _plus_ all the knowledge you have to make a recording sound extraordinary. To make an arrangement really a special song.

My $0.02 anyhow.


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## Supro (Dec 17, 2007)

iaresee said:


> Think bigger man!


Iaresee, youre right!, the buisness side of things is really not my specialty
I hear all you say, I thought of those things, but also, this musician is a friend of mine and I respect him alot, if "we" would get in buisness if you will, I see it as bringing equal talent in other forms for the sucsess of the band, so I would share the profit.
He had one dude figure that part out, started his label, did another recording with the band(real bad recording!...16Khz 18bit), booked them on summer festivals...bla bla bla.....so ya some people get it!
It did not work out as far as I know.

I agree on the producing though, if I could just produce, yes I would do it, better yet, what I would really love to do for a living, and I know I have the talent for it is Mixing music!....forget that in Montreal though, I don't thinks lots of people live just mixing music. Being hired as freelance just to mix music, that would be soooo awsome.


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## Telenator (Aug 9, 2007)

What about expanding your target market.

Audio processing for everything. 

Bands, people who want good audio to go with video of their weddings, first communions, bar mitzeahs (ouch picture in your head the sound off scissors snipping with a nice plate reverb), voice overs, commercials, audio restoration, maybe a selection of background music and charge a fee for people to record their own songs kareoke style ......

You have all the gear, what do you have to lose. Even if it doesn't "pan" out or is more part time thing, think about the tax write offs.

EDIT
Heck there's a guy over at TDPRI that had an audio engineering background and worked on some big albums now he's a forensic audio specialist and appears to be making a good go out of it.


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2007)

jroberts said:


> That's kind of like saying "Write hit songs." Seems simple. But its much more difficult in practice. Sure, anyone can call themselves a producer, but to actually have the skill and talent necessary to build a reputation and become successful at it is a different thing entirely.


I agree it takes talent to go huge, but I think it's easier to be a mediocre producer though and make a good living. You don't have to create that amazing hit. Plus, Supro is sort of moving along these lines now: he just needs to get paid for it.

He can also look in to mixing. Another job where you can get paid regardless of what the outcome is for the band.

Look at someone like Mike Borkosky as an example. Fingers in lots of pies. Living well. Diversify man, diversify.

I mean, jroberts, you don't just provide a studio space right? Or just mixing? And if you do anything approaching producing, don't you want your name on it? A little extra?


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## Guest (Dec 22, 2007)

Supro said:


> I agree on the producing though, if I could just produce, yes I would do it, better yet, what I would really love to do for a living, and I know I have the talent for it is Mixing music!....forget that in Montreal though, I don't thinks lots of people live just mixing music. Being hired as freelance just to mix music, that would be soooo awsome.


Are you joking? People do that _all the time_. It's common practice get your album mixed by someone other than the engineer who helped you recorded. It's a different side of the art form to begin with. Not all recording engineers are good mixing engineers. And it's a fresh set of ears on your songs. A new perspective. See my Mike Borkosky reference above. The guy mixes a good deal of new music.


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## Supro (Dec 17, 2007)

Iaresee, I understand there are talented and lucky people that do diversify and "star" in a couple of different projects.They say, OK I think this band has potential, ill produce this at so and so studio(smoosing the studio owner friend bla bla bla), or they are invited to mix one of the songs, and he is hired, just for who he is period!
Ive been reading about those guys in Mix magasine for 15 years!
I can humbly say that I think I could be one of those, I had those aspirations 10 years ago, but im in Montreal!, its difficult to jump on the big fast train.....
Oh and here is a little anecdote about working with greats, ya I might be name dropping,but this explains a bit what im trying to do.


To make it short, I was 22 when I ended up in a big studio one Saterday morning, we were 3 'students' and our teacher was Bill Porter.....now Mr Porter was the first guy to record in stereo, with Roy Orbison, they did I forget what song it is.
He was also Elvis's live sound guy, he did the all the shows. So anyway, here we are and he sais, "Ok guys, ill give you guys one hour, mic this jazz setup we have here and ill come back"!!!

So anyway, im saying this because that 2 day session defined to me what I was born to do, it was almost religious,.....this is what im looking for, be it tracking/mixing/producing, working with musicians, the decipline of working with angel air.....phase!!, the urgency of being at the service of the music, whatrever it takes!

THATs what I love and learned in those 2 days!
Boy I would love to not only do that, but have the opertunity to be where the magic is going on.....

For me, after having seen 20 years of new people coming in the buisness of sound in general.....sound guys on portable news situation, any portable kit,assistants on tv sets,3rd guy in a sound department(thats rare!), in general, the work ethics particular to our jobs, the details, all this stuff is gradually lost.One in a while, you get a new one that has it in him already, they evolve pretty fast.
What im trying to say is I want to keep the tradition, I feel like Ive got a responsability to honor the old days......something like that:food-smiley-015:....so in the end, Its either that or I start to think what else I can do to work.


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