# Dead Deluxe Reverb Reissue



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Got to the gig Friday night and fired up the trusty old DRRI. To my dismay, the only sound that came out sounded like a quiet, crackly transistor radio. Same both channels. Checked that tubes were seated and could see that power tubes glowed like they should. Couldn't look much closer as I had to get a backup up and running.

Anyone got any ideas on where I should start?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Do you have a new/spare rectifier tube that you could try?
This is just a guess on my part.

Otherwise, I'd just take it to an amp tech.

Cheers

Dave


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Thanks Dave. I have spares of all but the rectifier. I got her on my workbench and fired her up again. All the tubes glow nicely. My tele plugged in and played softly give a half-decent but somewhat reduced volume until I hit her a little harder and she breaks up and down (like a bad connection) and distorts.

I'll try swapping all the pre-amps and power tubes a bit later. Can they be swapped on standby or must the amp be off?


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

does your amp have the stock printed circuit board?
D.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

loudtubeamps said:


> does your amp have the stock printed circuit board?
> D.


Yes it does.


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## Prosonic (Apr 28, 2009)

My DRRI is fried too. I think it's time to get rid of mine.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

I have, unfortunately repaired alot of these (printed circuit board) Fender amps.
The most common cause of failure is broken solder joints,sometimes fractured traces and sometimes bad solder connections(resin pockets etc.)
You will have to remove the pot nuts and some of the connections on the front side of the board to enable the board to be flipped exposing the back side.
Have a close look(with good lighting and a magnifying glass) at the solder points on the back side of the board, especially the larger components and the input jacks.
Give each of the components a firm but gentle push/lift with a plastic stir stick or something similar.
I prefer a plastic probe so as not to crack or damage the fragile resistors and small cap leads found within.
9 times out of 10 , it's a loose connection caused by the close proximity of the speaker to the circuit board that sonically breaks down the connections.
The best way to avoid a repeat performance is to hard wire(basically a point to point wiring)most of the major junctions of components on the board.
Cheers, d


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

loudtubeamps said:


> I have, unfortunately repaired alot of these (printed circuit board) Fender amps.
> The most common cause of failure is broken solder joints,sometimes fractured traces and sometimes bad solder connections(resin pockets etc.)
> You will have to remove the pot nuts and some of the connections on the front side of the board to enable the board to be flipped exposing the back side.
> Have a close look(with good lighting and a magnifying glass) at the solder points on the back side of the board, especially the larger components and the input jacks.
> ...


This is certainly the kind of symptom I'm inclined to suspect - it's behaving very much like a bad connection - either on the board or in a tube. Just to further complicate things the glass from V1 shattered in my hand when I tried swapping tubes (not the original - the replacement one).

I will get it up to my "electronics friend" later this week and we'll get access to the board.

THanks for the input guys!


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Check for obvious things like the phase inverter. I've seen these with unsoldered contact points usually where human hands have had to solder. ie. tube pin terminals, speaker terminals. etc. Their QC isn't what it used to be...


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## ampaholic (Sep 19, 2006)

Is it worth saying that getting the circuit board flipped over on any of these amps is not for the faint hearted? Once you've done a few it's not too bad but I'm just sayin'.....


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

ampaholic said:


> Is it worth saying that getting the circuit board flipped over on any of these amps is not for the faint hearted? Once you've done a few it's not too bad but I'm just sayin'.....


Worth hearing, I'd say. I'm guessing you mean they don't "remove" easily? Can you elaborate or point me in a direction?


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## ampaholic (Sep 19, 2006)

I guess I'm just saying that these circuit board amps take a certain amount of finesse to work on. In my limited experience I find the Fender amps far better than most, in that at least they were designed with the intention that they could be serviced, but as has been pointed out earlier in the thread it's not difficult to do more harm than good.
I thought I had ruined the first Blues Junior I had apart doing a couple of simple mods and spent hours trying to figure out why the bias was all over the place when I had it put back together. Turns out that when reinstalling one wiring harness I had moved a couple of high voltage wires a half an inch or so closer to the output tubes causing them to go wonky!


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

If you're gonna commit to this, best to have the tools required. A signal generator, meter and scope will make your life inifitely easier. That way you can trace the signal to the source of the problem without tearing the whole amp apart on the hunch that you might find an obvious problem.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

All of the comments and suggestions so far are valid.
If you at all interested in a DIY and you have the basic knowledge and tools AKA:good lighting,a magnifying glass, a 30 watt soldering pencil, some resin core solder, some solder wick and a stir stick, chances are you can find the bad solder connections and do the repair.
A multi meter would be handy to check continuity between traces on the PC board, but not absolutely necessary.
The biggest deal is the removal of the hardware(pot nuts/input jack nuts) and some of the leads to the board and some snipping of wire ties to allow the circuit board to be partially flipped allowing access to the traces.
These Fender amps are a bit of a pain to trouble shoot and repair compared to the older point to point circuits where everything can be tested without the removal of circuit leads to access some components.
They are as well, a bit skimpy on the quality of the copper traces, assembly and robustness of the components.
Worst case is, you can't find the loose components that are causing the problem.
If that's where it's at, then leave the amp opened up and take the chassis and hardware that you removed to your amp teck.
You have already done half the work for him. It usually takes as much time to open the amp up, expose the board for inspection then put it all back together as it does to do the actual repair.
It might be a good time to get your feet wet , if you haven't already. 
If you need help , there will be support here and a ton of info on the web.
Look for any loose wires and components before you begin to dismantle.
Take pictures if needed of the exposed chassis and the leads to be removed and or masking tape and label any leads that are not obvious as to their replacement point. Document as you proceed with the dismantling and take your time.
We've all been there.
fender_deluxe_reverb_2.jpg 1200×443 pixels
As you can see, there is not alot to remove in the way of wiring.
As mentioned earlier on,only some leads on the front edge(pot side) of the board need to be disconnected to allow the board to be flipped up.
cheers, doug
Actually, this series fender_deluxe_reverb_2.jpg 1200×443 pixels looks like it has molex connectors and the removal of the pot control PC board may not be necessary...even better.
If the small leads on yours are hard wired, then both boards will need to be accessed.
How to repair a Fender deluxe reverb reissue amp - Google Search:sSig_cool2:


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## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

_"It might be a good time to get your feet wet , if you haven't already."

_But don't work on your amp with wet feet!


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

I put togeather a quick pic. to give you an idea what has to be removed/disconnected.
cheers, d
http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m570/loudtubeamps/ddr001.jpg


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

I had a "Custom" Vibrolux Reverb Reissue with board problems so out it went (the board) and I hand-wired it. Ton of work but the results were worth it as the amp sounds quite a bit better and is reliable as it should have been from new.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Thanks for the continued advice my friends. So far I have exchanged all the the 12AX7s with no change. I don't have a rectifier - there's a GZ34 in there - not what the chart calls for but I assume the previous owner checked out the swap. Regardless I'm sure it's different than what's in my Princeton.

I have a 79' Princeton Reverb with 6v6 power tubes (though the glass appears to be smaller). Would it be ok to try one of those as a tester for a minute in the DRRI or should I do the pair at the same time?


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Gonna go out on a limb here: Did you plug in a different speaker just to make sure it's not blown?
It's always best to eliminate the obvious first. There's nothing worse than wasting a lot of time by assuming the problem must be complicated. Many times, it's a simple solution. My usual approach to a symptom like this would be: 1.tubes, 2.speaker, 3. speaker connector (laugh if you like but I have seen more than one amp with the speaker in the wrong speaker jack!!).
Eliminating the obvious, you can move onto more "challenging" investigations. In your case since it involves both channels, the fault might be in the power section. Output tranny and surrounding circuits would be the place to start.


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## J-75 (Jul 29, 2010)

loudtubeamps said:


> These Fender amps are a bit of a pain to trouble shoot and repair compared to the older point to point circuits where everything can be tested without the removal of circuit leads to access some components.
> They are as well, a bit skimpy on the quality of the copper traces, assembly and robustness of the components.
> Worst case is, you can't find the loose components that are causing the problem.


At the risk of being flamed, one defence of PCB amps (if designed correctly) is that the traces have proportionate dimensions for their current load, ground plane trace offers shielding for nearby signal traces, and placement/orientation of components can result in minimal undesirable coupling effects (hum). In contrast, PTP wiring places components in non-ideal parallel proximity, lending to undesirable coupling effects. I wouldn't condemn PCB construction, when quality control is really the problem.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Agreed.
I don't think anyone mentioned the sonic quality or equality of P.C. construction V.S. point to point construction/design.
I am sure that this subject would have it's supporters for both types.
'Cheers..d


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

It's interesting how amps with PCB boards are looked down upon but it's been over 40 years now since 95% of amps that's been produced by every major amp manufacturer uses PCB boards.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

That my friend is known as hype...
Quality control is probably the biggest culprit in giving circuit board construction a bad name.
Interestingly, there were problems with PTP Fenders in the '70's as an example. Poor quality supplies of resistors and coupling capacitors plus the odd poor solder joint were problems during production and unmodified amps carry those problems today. 



Chito said:


> It's interesting how amps with PCB boards are looked down upon but it's been over 40 years now since 95% of amps that's been produced by every major amp manufacturer uses PCB boards.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Yup....some good, some bad and some just plain ugly.
Mesa for example does double sided boards these days,a colossal pain in the butt to service and wayyyy underbuilt for the reputation and cost to purchase.
I have to admit though, reparing these bad boys and getting paid by the hour works for me. 
Cheers, d








http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m570/loudtubeamps/DSC02397.jpg







http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m570/loudtubeamps/DSC02405.jpg







http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m570/loudtubeamps/DSC02400.jpg







http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m570/loudtubeamps/DSC02401.jpg


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Indeed. I'm the warranty repair guy for Mesa in the Ottawa area. I haven't had any major problems with them though compared to others...JCM2000 comes to mind.



loudtubeamps said:


> Yup....some good, some bad and some just plain ugly.
> Mesa for example does double sided boards these days,a colossal pain in the butt to service and wayyyy underbuilt for the reputation and cost to purchase.
> I have to admit though, reparing these bad boys and getting paid by the hour works for me.
> Cheers, d
> ...


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

nonreverb said:


> Gonna go out on a limb here: Did you plug in a different speaker just to make sure it's not blown?
> It's always best to eliminate the obvious first. There's nothing worse than wasting a lot of time by assuming the problem must be complicated. Many times, it's a simple solution. My usual approach to a symptom like this would be: 1.tubes, 2.speaker, 3. speaker connector (laugh if you like but I have seen more than one amp with the speaker in the wrong speaker jack!!).
> Eliminating the obvious, you can move onto more "challenging" investigations. In your case since it involves both channels, the fault might be in the power section. Output tranny and surrounding circuits would be the place to start.


Bingo!

As a last resort before pulling the board I decided to put her side by side with my Prinny and plug in the Rajin Cajun. She worked like a charm! I still don't believe it - but there you are - it lies between the speaker jack and the cone. Shame cause I had a British G12H30 in there. Well, this afternnon I'll reinstall the original crappy thing (the Eminence one) and at least she'll be back in action.

So, who knows their speakers? She cuts in and out - loud and quiet like a bad connection. Fine at lowest, soft, easy playing. Cuts out and distorts if you harden your play or up the volume.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Before condemning the speaker, make sure it isn't that shiitty molded speaker cable! They're notoriously prone to intermittant failure. 
Try another jack and cable if you can first....if it's still bad, then shoot the speaker 




allthumbs56 said:


> Bingo!
> 
> As a last resort before pulling the board I decided to put her side by side with my Prinny and plug in the Rajin Cajun. She worked like a charm! I still don't believe it - but there you are - it lies between the speaker jack and the cone. Shame cause I had a British G12H30 in there. Well, this afternnon I'll reinstall the original crappy thing (the Eminence one) and at least she'll be back in action.
> 
> So, who knows their speakers? She cuts in and out - loud and quiet like a bad connection. Fine at lowest, soft, easy playing. Cuts out and distorts if you harden your play or up the volume.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

nonreverb said:


> Before condemning the speaker, make sure it isn't that shiitty moulded speaker cable! They're notoriously prone to intermittant failure.
> Try another jack and cable if you can first....if it's still bad, then shoot the speaker


You were right the first time ........ I'd be a fool to try otherwise - I'll let you know what I find.


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## ampaholic (Sep 19, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> Bingo!
> Well, this afternnon I'll reinstall the original crappy thing (the Eminence one) and at least she'll be back in action.


IMHO those Eminence speakers are actually pretty decent sounding and because people insist on pulling them out of their new Fender amps you can pick them up for next to nothing.
I've got a pair of the brown label ones in a blackface Pro Reverb and they sound excellent, and look vintage. Total cost $50!


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

If the culprit ends up being the speaker (v.s the jack plug/speaker cable and or output jack,) check that there is a good solder joint of the flex leads to the terminal strip on the spkr. frame. If the solder connections look sound next check the flex leads themselves for signs of fatigue and fraying. A flex lead that is toasted can somtimes be repaired without having to do a recone.
Nice one *nonreverb* and *allthumbs56.
*Cheers, d


allthumbs56 said:


> Bingo!
> 
> As a last resort before pulling the board I decided to put her side by side with my Prinny and plug in the Rajin Cajun. She worked like a charm! I still don't believe it - but there you are - it lies between the speaker jack and the cone. Shame cause I had a British G12H30 in there. Well, this afternnon I'll reinstall the original crappy thing (the Eminence one) and at least she'll be back in action.
> 
> So, who knows their speakers? She cuts in and out - loud and quiet like a bad connection. Fine at lowest, soft, easy playing. Cuts out and distorts if you harden your play or up the volume.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

ampaholic said:


> IMHO those Eminence speakers are actually pretty decent sounding and because people insist on pulling them out of their new Fender amps you can pick them up for next to nothing.
> I've got a pair of the brown label ones in a blackface Pro Reverb and they sound excellent, and look vintage. Total cost $50!


Yeah, I don't think the stock speaker is all that bad. For my purposes though I really like the G12H30 in there - a little less bright and a little beefier.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

If you don't see anything obvious with the flex leads, you could try this:with the speaker connected to your amp, play throught it and try to get it to cut out,if/when it does, watch the flex leads closely for fireworks.If it is a funky flex lead it should be arcing.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Problem seems to be solved. New wire soldered to original connector seems to be the fix. Tested with both speakers (Eminence and G12H30). Thanks for all your input guys - very much appreciated!


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