# High gain pedal suggestions?



## Greg Ellis

The drive section of my setup right now uses a mix of clean boost, a Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive for mild OD, and an old Boss DS-1 for heavier stuff. Amp is generally run fairly clean, depending, so the pedals play a fairly major role in shaping the sound.

I'm very happy with the Sparkle Drive - it's rich and full, and I love the way I can blend in my clean signal. For Deep Purple type stuff, or CSNY, Tom Petty, Hip, Sarah McLachlan, really a whole spectrum of lighter tones, I've had no trouble whatsoever finding a setting that works, either with the Sparkle Drive alone, or in combo with the clean boost.

The Boss DS-1, on the other hand, sounds very thin and whiny to me. I lose a lot of punch and balls when I kick that pedal on, no matter what settings I try.

I've been trying to use that DS-1 to cover the higher end of the gain spectrum, for 80's type metal - Scorpions, Ozzy, Priest, VH, Sabbath, maybe even Dokken - but it's not really working out. I've tried using the Sparkle Drive for that application, but it's clearly not the right tool for the job.

Any ideas for a higher gain pedal that will take me where I want to go without breaking the bank?

I've seen the Suhr Riot videos on youtube - WOW! But that pedal is north of $200 and apparently the wait time is considerable.

What else is out there that covers the same sort of ground, and might pop up for $100-ish on the used market?


----------



## sivs

Thought about a Rat (or rat clone) at all? It might not be the sound that you're going for, but they're are lots around for the 100ish price. Wht kind of amp are you playing on?


----------



## keto

Marshall JH-1 Jackhammer. OD side, very very 80's metal. The distortion side is crap, the OD side is really a distortion. Very tweakable, something like 5 knob EQ section. A little gain goes a long way  Should be able to find a used one fairly cheap, even a new one is around $100 somewhere. I've been trying to kick this thing off my board for years, and can't - sounds great for higher gain, plays really well with other pedals.


----------



## Greg Ellis

sivs said:


> Wht kind of amp are you playing on?


My home practise rig is a Blackheart Little Giant (single EL84) into a 1x10 cab. 

Jamming around, I end up plugging into whatever is available. I'm generally drawn toward the Marshall (JCM 800 / 900) with a 2x12 or 4x12 whenever that sort of thing is available. I'll setup the amp for a pleasant cleanish-with-some-edge-when-I-dig-in sort of sound and then adjust my gain structure from the pedal board.


----------



## rev156

I use the same amp. I have an EH MetalMuff with boost, it works well for me.
Cheers


----------



## prodigal_son

Maxon SD-9 all the way dude!!

Try this (if your amp can do this): Crank the gain to full or fairly high, adjust master volume to desired setting, set DS-1 as follows - Distortion 0, Volume between 11-1 o'clock, Tone 10 o'clock or lower.

The idea is to use your amp's crunch tones and filter it through the DS-1 for punchiness and edge. Let me know if this helped.


----------



## The Grin

If your going for the 80s kind of distortion, the Rat is a good way to go. Another route to go is the Radial Bones Hollywood depending on the price range ya got. 

Personally I love the Jekyll and Hyde and i preach that word every chance I get, though the OD dont do it for me, that said I was thinking of downsizing to the Son of Hyde, and I seen em fairly cheap. Otherwise, maybe try out the other boss pedals (ML-2, DS-2, MT-2). normally you can get a trade going with out spending any cash.


----------



## Chito

Check out the Catalinbread SCOD. You want high gain, this pedal can give you all you need.


----------



## jimihendrix

hey there...try this....

[video=youtube;bvG8mZziMyU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvG8mZziMyU[/video]


----------



## Guest

Another vote for the amazingly versatile SD-9. Or an SM-9 Super Metal. Don't be fooled by the name. It's a cascaded tubescreamer with a crazy versatile 3 band EQ on it. 



prodigal_son said:


> Maxon SD-9 all the way dude!!
> 
> Try this (if your amp can do this): Crank the gain to full or fairly high, adjust master volume to desired setting, set DS-1 as follows - Distortion 0, Volume between 11-1 o'clock, Tone 10 o'clock or lower.
> 
> The idea is to use your amp's crunch tones and filter it through the DS-1 for punchiness and edge. Let me know if this helped.


----------



## weener

I have a SCOD that i am not using if you are interested Greg.


----------



## The Grin

I was also going to drop this site here. GFS Footpedals


----------



## Stratin2traynor

Chito said:


> Check out the Catalinbread SCOD. You want high gain, this pedal can give you all you need.


I have one of these that I haven't yet posted for sale. Coming soon though. Great pedal, just not for me.


----------



## Budda

What kind of high gain are we talking here?


----------



## itf?

If you are willing to go as high as the $150 mark used I'd HIGHLY recommend the Diamond Fireburst. It does both smooth distortion sounds (with mid boost engaged) and the raunchier "Muff" type sounds when you're looking for more edge.


----------



## Shiny_Beast

The ds-1 isn't actually that great for super high gain, If you ask me the bottom end get's too plastic once you get past Halen territory. Roll the the tone back to 9 or 10 oclock, just enough to lose that treble spike, then max the gain and roll it back until the bottom ends starts to retain some dynamics. If that's not enough gain for ya look elsewhere, or just crank the level into your tube head.


----------



## davetcan

If you can't afford the Riot find a vintage Rat with the LM308 chip, better still one modded by Keeley, but either will do. Small box, big box, doesn't matter. Your search will be over.


----------



## Greg Ellis

Shiny_Beast said:


> The ds-1 isn't actually that great for super high gain, If you ask me the bottom end get's too plastic once you get past Halen territory. Roll the the tone back to 9 or 10 oclock, just enough to lose that treble spike, then max the gain and roll it back until the bottom ends starts to retain some dynamics. If that's not enough gain for ya look elsewhere, or just crank the level into your tube head.


Yep, that's the problem in a nutshell. Reaching for the level of gain I want, the DS-1 gets all thin and whiney - no guts.

I might try modding it - there's certainly enough info kicking around the net to give it a good shot. It's pretty busted up already, so nothing to lose really.

Catalinbread SCOD sounds like it might do the trick - I hadn't considered that pedal before.

Diamond Fireburst is an interesting idea, but it has that loose and flubby sort of sound, to my ears. Might be useful for some older Sabbath, but not really what I was after at the moment.

Metal Muff is way too modern for my taste, from what I've heard of it. 

I'm looking for something more in the 80's modded Marshall territory - Electric Eye, Rock You Like a Hurricane, Ratt's "Round and Round", Whitesnake's "Bad Boys", that sort of thing.

I've seen some demos of Rats that seem ridiculously noisy - not sure if that's typical or not.


----------



## prodigal_son

Man. There's a 1984 Ibanez SD-9 for sale on here right now for $150. Do yourself a favour and get it. Trust me.


----------



## mhammer

Gain is multiplicative.

If you one thing with a gain of 10x followed by another thing with a gain of 10x, their combined gain is 100x.

If one pedal does not have the amount of gain you are looking for, simply precede it with a clean booster, and you will instantly turn it into a high-gain monster that saturates at the blink of an eye.


----------



## Guest

prodigal_son said:


> Man. There's a 1984 Ibanez SD-9 for sale on here right now for $150. Do yourself a favour and get it. Trust me.


+1 to that!


----------



## hollowbody

prodigal_son said:


> Man. There's a 1984 Ibanez SD-9 for sale on here right now for $150. Do yourself a favour and get it. Trust me.





iaresee said:


> +1 to that!


+1 to that too! No affiliation with the...wait a minute, that's my pedal! Thanks for the recommendation!

But in the interest of offering a viewpoint that doesn't directly benefit me, I also have to +1 the Rat recommendation, especially if you can find an older one with the LM308 chip. I had a small-box 80's Rat for a while and it whupped! I can't compare it to the SD-9 because it was too long ago, but both pedals sounded awesome during their respective stays on my pedalboard.


----------



## Shiny_Beast

Try changing the input cap to something smaller, in theory it should let you max the gain with the tone down without the bottom end getting all thumpy.


----------



## Duane

*Radial London Bones*

The Radial Bones London is very tweakable and 2 channel. The second channel has more mids and is fatter sounding. Has separate volume control for each channel so can use as a boost or second channel. 3 setting for mid and treble boost depending on what you amp/cab needs or what you want to add. Used one for a while and have one to sell if interested.


----------



## Alien8

If you have an fx loop in your amp, buy an MXR 10 band eq, and put that in it. You can get some great heavy tones with that, just takes a little messin' around... but at least it would be usable later in life too, incase you get away from heavy.


----------



## gtrguy

Greg Ellis said:


> Diamond Fireburst is an interesting idea, but it has that loose and flubby sort of sound, to my ears. Might be useful for some older Sabbath, but not really what I was after at the moment.


Just to note- with the MID BOOST engaged, the Fireburst *really* tightens up in the bottom end and alters the character of the pedal. Think modded JCM800 tones. The other thing about the Fireburst is there is a silly amount of gain on tap. To my ear, the best sounds are in the first half of the gain pot range.

*disclaimer- I am affiliated with Diamond Pedals but please take my comments in the unbiased manner that they were offered. It's not my goal to sell anyone anything.


----------



## The Grin

So like you I have been looking for a new distortion. Its well documented that I love the J&H, but its too big for my board. So, that said I was checking my options before I just go out and buy Son of Hyde. I FOUND IT!! Its like an angel singing! Its like a Demon Screaming! Its the  Pocket Metal Muff  that owns the trudge im looking for (based on that video)!!!!

Buy Electro-Harmonix Nano Pocket Metal Muff Distortion Guitar Effects Pedal | Overdrive, Distortion, Fuzz & Boost | Musician's Friend


----------



## Gazoo

I've always liked the Marshall bluesbreaker II Pedal, Ibanez TS808 if you can find one or the SD9, and Fulltone Mosfet pedal. Any one of those three would be a good fit.


----------



## Gretsch6120

I'd try a Fulltone OCD, lots of gain


----------



## -mbro-

I used to have a MI Audio Tube Zone. It has a great high gain but I sold it because I didnt like the mid and low gain sounds. There have been several versions of it so far and they all sound the same with just the controls being different. Easy to find used for under $150

This is the version I had. It has trippots inside where the newer versions brought them to the top of the enclosure





















[YOUTUBE]<object width="980" height="765"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0sawTABjfz8&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe87a9f&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0sawTABjfz8&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0xcc2550&color2=0xe87a9f&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="980" height="765"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## david henman

...mxr fullbore metal?

voodoolabs dirty bomb?


----------



## dufe32

david henman said:


> ...mxr fullbore metal?
> 
> voodoolabs dirty bomb?


I'm sure you mean Barber Dirty Bomb. Great pedal btw, very "metal". MI Audio Tube Zone is a great high gain pedal. I personally wouldn't go with the MXR Fullbore thing, it's a "gain mess" in my opinion. There's also the HBE Full Metal Jacket, I think you should try one. You could try stacking pedals too, I have the OCD (v4) and the Crowther Hotcake on my board, and when I stack those 2, it gets pretty high gain to me. There is a plethora of products for what you are searching for, take your time and try a lot of pedals with your amp and guitar, if possible. MI Audio Crunchbox can get you where you are aiming, the list could go on...


----------



## The Grin

david henman said:


> ...mxr fullbore metal?


Because It had a noise gate built in, i REALLY wanted to like it, but every video I have seen on it, it seems like theres way too much high. To be fair, every video I have seen they never touched the Mid knob, so maybe that one is just as good as the Pocket Metal Muff.


----------



## k tone

Get a used Boss HM-2. I have been rocking mine for over 20 years now.


----------



## mhammer

Actually, the HM-2 has a *sort* of nosie gate built in too. It has diodes in the signal path, in addition to the typical diodes to ground. Series diodes provide what is referred to as "crossover distortion". Rather than clip the tops and bottoms, they clip the sides of the wave, as it "crosses over" from negative to positive peaks. It does this by posing a sort of barrier with a threshold. Germanium dioes will not let signal pass unless it is above roughly 220-260mv. Since the waveform produced when you pluck a string takes a little bit to reach that, the result is that the rest of the circuit sees something that suddenly jumps from no signal to 220-260mv - i.e., the "sides" of the wave are chopped.

Of course, since a big chunk of what we call "noise" is hiss, those diodes effectively block the hiss by requiring the hiss to be above that 220-260mv threshold to go any further in the circuit. Since it rarely reaches that level, you don't get to hear it. Nice.

A unit which is explicitly intended to produce ONLY crossover distortion is the Z-Vex Machine, which is demonstrated here: YouTube - Zvex Machine Guitar Pedal

I whipped up a modded version of the old Gretsch Controfuzz for myself, and added the option to introduce varying amounts of normal clipping and/or crossover distortion. I have to say that I like the sound of crossover distortion on the bridge pickup. Those two just naturally seem to go together for some reason.


----------



## david henman

Radial Tonebone Hot British
Radial Tonebone Plexitube
MXR Fullbore Metal
Barber Dirty Bomb
Line Six Uber-Metal
Emma PisdiYAUwot
Suhr Riot
Wampler Triple Wreck
Toneczar Openhaus
Way Huge Fat Sandwich
Tone Freak Severe
Damage Control Solid Metal
Menatone None More Black


----------



## KoskineN

Emma PisdiYAUwot
Wampler Triple Wreck
Toneczar Openhaus 

Best hi gain pedals I heared so far!


----------



## The Grin

Money isnt the issue when it comes to gear. For me its all about size. I have a Crate Powerblock and one day I would like to own the Ibanez Promethean for my bass. So the only boost I need will be my Neck pick-up which I keep closer to my strings then my Bridge pickup. Whats left is getting the most compact pedal that can do what I want it to do.

But the Triple Wreck stands out to me of the list above and the "Emma PisdiYAUwot" sounds pretty smooth.


----------



## mspizziri

Every clip I've heard of the Suhr Riot and Tonefreak Severe sound great for that nice tight distortion with a good crunch


----------



## w.luchka_17

The Grin said:


> Money isnt the issue when it comes to gear.


 ahhhhh I hope I can someday get to this point when I buy gear.


----------



## The Grin

Well no, money is an issue and pretty tight with me right now. I can see how you would get that idea, but what I meant is that if i want something THAT bad, i will get my hands on it. Money is just one obstacle you can go through or around. Gear can be traded, sold or sitting in the pawn shop for me to buy at a fraction of the price. I sure as hell aint rich.


----------



## Robert1950

I have a Tonebone Hot British and an Ibanz SD9. I got them used - $125 or the Tonebone and $80 for SD9. Think of a Tubescreamer pushed into high gain with the SD9. The Hot British is very much a tone sculpting distortion box - spend time with it and you get anything from scooped mids to mid boost or three decades of Marshall sounds.


----------



## prodigal_son

What about the Way Huge Fat Sandwich? Looks pretty cool. Demos sound good. At least you know you could go to a store and actually get one of these right away.


----------



## Greg Ellis

Fat Sandwich looks pretty good, actually. Has anyone tried one?

The EMMA Pisdyawhot looks awesome too, but $250+ is kinda steep.

Likewise the Tone Freak Severe. Great sounding demos, but $200, just like the Riot.

I'm curious about the Dirty Bomb. The price is nice, but I haven't heard a demo clip that I like. I wonder if Cosmo carries Barber pedals.

Great ideas, guys, including several I had never considered before.


----------



## itf?

Greg Ellis said:


> Diamond Fireburst is an interesting idea, but it has that loose and flubby sort of sound, to my ears. Might be useful for some older Sabbath, but not really what I was after at the moment.


Hmmm....not sure I aggree there. Loose and flubby doesn't describe the Fireburst I have or the one my brother uses. Without the mid switch engaged, sure it can get into boutique Big Muff style tones, with some tweaking of the tone knobs, which I guess you could describe as "wooly". But once the mid switch is engaged the entire thing tightens up and sounds more like a Marshall amp on steroids. 

Don't go by online demos. Go out, test out the pedals you are interested in. For example, the Rat has been used by Randy Rhoads to create "his" tone which you may or may not like. But that's not the whole story.It's also been used by David Gilmour, for example, on numerous occassions and no one can say that Dave and Randy have similar tones.


----------



## -mbro-

Im getting a great high gain tone from stacking my Danelectro TOD into a CO-1.


----------



## The Grin

itf? said:


> Don't go by online demos. Go out, test out the pedals you are interested in.


Well of course this would be a good idea that all should fallow. Why, because there are way to many variables to go by in youtube demos. THEY arent playing your guitar that was slightly altered by the time you dropped it or on your tired old but still awsome amp. Even the type of microphone they use would make a diffrence or the life in the battery. but hunting for a good pedal while your so broke that your bologna has no first name, this would be a good, inexpencive alternative.


----------



## gtone

If you want a good modded Marshall tone, the MI Crunch Box should have you covered. They go for about $140 new, but you can pick 'em up used on TGP, Kijiji and E-Bay for $75-$90 range easy. Sounds better than Rat or OCD IMO. Here's a PGS comparo of the Crunch Box, OCD and Barber Direct Drive:

YouTube - Fulltone OCD, MI Audio Crunch Box, Barber Direct Drive


----------



## david henman

...had one and sold it. didn't do a thing for me. now i have to wonder if i gave it a chance - maybe should have used it at a gig or just spent more time with it.




gtone said:


> If you want a good modded Marshall tone, the MI Crunch Box should have you covered. They go for about $140 new, but you can pick 'em up used on TGP, Kijiji and E-Bay for $75-$90 range easy. Sounds better than Rat or OCD IMO. Here's a PGS comparo of the Crunch Box, OCD and Barber Direct Drive:
> 
> YouTube - Fulltone OCD, MI Audio Crunch Box, Barber Direct Drive


----------



## Ti-Ron

gtone said:


> If you want a good modded Marshall tone, the MI Crunch Box should have you covered. They go for about $140 new, but you can pick 'em up used on TGP, Kijiji and E-Bay for $75-$90 range easy. Sounds better than Rat or OCD IMO. Here's a PGS comparo of the Crunch Box, OCD and Barber Direct Drive:
> 
> YouTube - Fulltone OCD, MI Audio Crunch Box, Barber Direct Drive


How is the crunch box when it comes to mids? There's not control for it so I imagine is either scooped or booster?


----------



## gtone

Ti-Ron said:


> How is the crunch box when it comes to mids? There's not control for it so I imagine is either scooped or booster?


It's definitely strong on mids, one of the reasons it does the hot-rodded Marshall thing so well. Versions 2 and 3 have adjustable internal trim pot - between that and the external tone control, you have a bit of flexibility. Don't get me wrong, the CB is a bit limited since it colours/thickens your sound so much. It also doesn't clean up very well like most of the Lovepedal line or an OCD does. If you're wanting a corpulent JCM tone, however, this should do the job nicely.

FWIW, I tried the CB out and didn't like it at first. Then I started adjusting the trim pot and playing with the tone and gain settings, which are all fairly interactive, then I started warming up to it. Ironically, I had wood for the OCD when I first started playing with that, and after a while, the honeymoon was over as I found it a little more strident sounding.


----------



## The Grin

Well my lords and... well ladies if there are any... I have in my convenience, went to a shop and tried out the Full Bore Metal and it does have those harsh highs all the videos have but you can still dial them down quite easily. I just thought it would be fair to say I CAN get the tone i want out of it and may or may not obtain it.


----------



## prodigal_son

Right on!! Did it sound better on the clean or the dirty channel?


----------



## The Grin

I only play it one way good sir, and im all about the clean channel amps. All my faith goes into my pedal board and the amps only job is to make things loud.


----------



## Greg Ellis

An EMMA PisdiYAUwot just popped up on Toronto Craigslist, if anyone is hunting for one of those.

He's asking $240


----------



## Salokin

I' m hoping the Wampler Super Plextortion is the High gain tone box that I' m looking for
because I' ve just bought one!


----------



## david henman

Salokin said:


> I' m hoping the Wampler Super Plextortion is the High gain tone box that I' m looking for
> because I' ve just bought one!


...let us know. i bought the mxr fullbore metal. it does the job, no question about that. plus its small, light, inexpensive etc. 

however, it is pretty much impossible to tame.

yeah...i know...be careful what you wish for (grin)!


----------



## The Grin

The fact it has a noise gate is what makes it appealing to me. I still want to try the Nano Metal Muff. I seen it at a store here for $57. and after I finish paying off my cab, im checking it out. If not that then im buying the *Bassballs *Pedal for $76.00. thats a funky pedal I want to dink around with. Mic Thompson used it in the intro for "Disasterpiece" though it is made for bass.


----------



## Salokin

david henman said:


> ...let us know. i bought the mxr fullbore metal. it does the job, no question about that. plus its small, light, inexpensive etc.
> 
> however, it is pretty much impossible to tame.
> 
> yeah...i know...be careful what you wish for (grin)!


I' ll let you know when I receive that Super Plextortion but I' m not sure to receive it on the next week because it comes from US. The one I' m waiting is the 4 knobs version. I hope I won' t miss the mid control of the 5 knobs version because I' m playing through a BF Vibrolux. 


Greg Ellis, I agree with others that say the SD9 would be nice. it' s a great distortion that stack well with low/medium od's. 
IMO it' s a lot better than a DS1.


----------



## Ti-Ron

gtone: thanks for the infos on the Crunch Box, I bought one and seriously that was the one I was lookin' for! I love mids!!!!!!!!!
Make me wonder if my best move would be a Mrsahll amps!


----------



## david henman

...i owned a crunch box for a short period, and never thought of it as even remotely "high gain". hmmmm....now i wish i still had it so i could take another listen.


----------



## mhammer

"High gain" is one of those terms that, much like "transparent boost", is subject to severe lack of clarity in meaning.

How much gain is "high"? The Tbe Screamer's max gain is around 113x. The Proco Rat has a gain, for some parts of the frequency spectrum, in the thousands. The vast majority of pedals operate off +9v. Pedals assume a typical guitar input signal that might be +/-500mv when you slam the strings, to +/-10mv when you hold an unwound G for a bit with finger vibrato. Should the pedal use op-amps at any point, they typically cannot provide more than +/-3500mv swing with a 9v supply. This means that the initial pick attack cannot be "clean" if using a gain of anything more than around 7-8x, and the decay portion of the note could not remain clean if the gain were more than maybe around 300x. For discussion purposes, and given that the signal after the initial pick attack can easily hang in there for a little while in the +/-50mv range if you strum a chord, let's say that, on average, few 9v-operated pedals can remain clean-sounding if they exceed a gain of around 70x. Given that gain is multiplicative, the cumulative gain over several stages can be quite high indeed for many pedals. A gain of 10, followed by a gain of 10, and another 10x gain stage gets us a cumulatiev gain of 1000x; well outside anything that would permit the semiconductors to deliver the same output as the input, only louder.

If it is a pedal that uses diodes for clipping, diodes have a fixed clipping point, or "forward voltage" where they begin conducting. For a pair of germanium diodes, it will be somewhere around +/-240mv. If it's a 2+1 germanium configuration, it'll be around +480/-240 (or the converse). If it's a pair of silicon diodes, the typical clipping point will be at around +/-500mv-560mv. If it's a 2+2 arrangement, that gets hiked up to +/-1000mv or so. If one uses a pair of red LEDs, that moves the clippingpoint up to around +/-1500mv. And so on.

So, it takes some gain to bring the signal up to a level which would make the diodes clip the signal. And since that gain is applied to an input signal, it takes less gain to bring the output of hot pickups up to the required threshold, and more gain to reliably produce clipping if the pickups are weaker or the volume is reduced in some manner, ahead of the distortion pedal. The interaction of pedal and input signal can be crucial. Some years back I made myself a TS-808 spec Tube Screamer. I used it with a guitar that I had installed an active preamp into. I liked the preamp,but the pedal was simply awful. I could not see what all the fuss was about. It sounded like crap. Then I got another guitar and _didn't_ install a preamp in it. Tried it with the TS and the doors opened and lights went on. Terrific pedal..._because I was feeding it what it needed_.

One of the critical elements that folks overlook about guitars is that their signal declines quite quickly from maximum after picking the string or strumming a chord. It is also not consistent across its lifespan, and produces little flutters that are above or below some average level. It can produce an output that is well above the clipping threshold (after applying a particular amount of gain in the pedal) for a brief instant, then decline to a point where it hovers around the threshold, and finally drops well below. The relationship between the guitar output, and the gain the circuit applies, will determine whether there is any clipping going on at any given moment. The rate at which it drops from maximum amplitude to the decay phase will determine for how long consistent clipping remains a characteristic of the output. My own approach is that what we call "overdrive" tends to involve the degree of gain that results in clipping for the initial 200-300msec of the note, but not afterwards, while what we call "fuzz" is something that applies enough gain, and has a low enough clipping threshold, that clipping is applied across most of the entire note. In other words, the different categories of pedals are a mental classification of the relative duration of the added harmonic content. 

Naturally, there can be variations in the quality, or spectral content of that extra harmonic content at the output, such that there can be more severe/intense, and less severe/intense-sounding pedals. My sense is that when people talk about a "high-gain pedal", a lot of the time they are talking about something which applies enough gain to produce clipping across a lengthy portion of the note's lifespan, but filters/shapes the type/distriobution of harmonic content so that the pedal is heard not as a "fuzz", but as something less intense.

Note that if the period the guitar signal remains supra-threshold matters, and if the particulars of the harmonic content generated by clipping can be altered, then one can produce "high-gain" sounds in a number of ways. Using a compressor with the output cranked will provide a guitar signal that remains well above the clipping threshold for a long time. So will sticking any sort of clean booster ahead of the clipping pedal. The MXR Distortion+ is a rather tame pedal, gain-wise (stock has a maximum gain of 213x), but given the multiplicative nature of gain, if I stick a simple 1-transistor booster ahead of it, and apply a gain of 2x, we now have a signal that has been boosted by a factor of 426x hitting the diodes, which means a) the chip inside the pedal is already clippipng even without the diodes, and b) the clipping effect will continue for a long time after I pick. So, just a bit of boost applied in the right manner can go a long way to producing "high-gain" sounds. That extra gain, could be a 5-6 band EQ pedal just ahead of whatever you use for distortion, with a bit of boost added to the right bands, and some cut applied to the right ones, so that the built-in gain of the distortion pedal is augmented by the increased input signal amplitude, and the harmonic content the distortion produces is preshaped by what the EQ has done. Instead of "fuzz" or "overdrive", you get a "high-gain" tone.

I don't mean to be pedantic (well, maybe just a little...hwopv ) but like I say, the term "high gain" tends to be used in a confusing manner, such that the sorts of recommendations people are making here run the gamut. I'm here to say you can prioduce "high-gain" tones in a multiplicity of ways, some of which can be done with one type of pedal, but can also be done with 2 or more pedals in ways you might not have thought of. You need to udnerstand what's going on inside the boxes, and in the signal chain, to be able to nail your desired tone. And if there is one thing this Hammer knows, it is how to nail things.:rockon:


----------



## Robert1950

When it comes to number of words posted on this site, you, mr. mhammer, are by far the clear leader. And I mean that in a good way.


----------



## mhammer

Thanks, guy. Much appreciated. Hopefully, all my smoke leads to clarity on the part of others.


----------



## The Grin

My definition is much simpler.....

High Gain = Modern Metal


----------



## itf?

Hmmm.....would a Ram's Head Big Muff not be considered high gain then? I'd have to argue that it is. But I'd also argue that it's definitely not "modern" metal sounding.


----------



## mhammer

It's not "modern metal sounding", but then that's likely to be purely a matter of EQ-ing. I'm pretty confident that a few component changes could easily make it a "metal" pedal.


----------



## david henman

The Grin said:


> My definition is much simpler.....
> High Gain = Modern Metal



...same here. that is what the term "high gain" means to me, and what i look for when i'm trying high gain pedals. but i do understand that it means something quite different to another player.


----------



## The Grin

mhammer said:


> It's not "modern metal sounding", but then that's likely to be purely a matter of EQ-ing. I'm pretty confident that a few component changes could easily make it a "metal" pedal.


This is true. I do tell people that all the time when looking for a new pedal. Dont just buy the first one that says "metal" because EQ could be scooped so easly. And honestly I find the ones made specificly for metal GENERALY have harsh highs that i have to turn down.


----------



## mhammer

I encourage BMP owners/users to go here - AMZ Lab Notebook & Guitar Effects - and read over some of the excellent documents on modding tone controls. I'm telling you, it takes maaayyyyyyybe 2 component changes with 40 cents worth of parts to make the BMP into a "metal machine".


----------



## Salokin

Salokin said:


> I' m hoping the Wampler Super Plextortion is the High gain tone box that I' m looking for
> because I' ve just bought one!





david henman said:


> ...let us know. i bought the mxr fullbore metal. it does the job, no question about that. plus its small, light, inexpensive etc.
> 
> however, it is pretty much impossible to tame.
> 
> yeah...i know...be careful what you wish for (grin)!


I finally received that Super Plextortion and my first impression is:Wow!!! I don' t have the version with the mid control. Mine has Bass,Treble,Volume,Gain + two 3 way switches.I like how it can saturate. Very smooth sounding, nice sustain and pretty good tone through my '68 BF Vibrolux! Souds great alone as well as stacked! I have to play more with it and find what I really want with the 3 positions eq switch and the gain switch. After have played with that, I' m curious with the Plextortion.

I had a pinnacle 2 and I can say that the super plextortion is more my thing!


----------



## ONFLOOR AUDIO

Mr. Wampler makes some very nice pedals for the money !!


----------

