# AX8 vs. HELIX



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Following the current trend here...


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Sounds pretty similar, but I’m listening on my phone’s speakers, so 

Helix and Axe are pretty close these days. The main difference I keep hearing from users is that the reverb algos on the Axe units are much better, but I didn’t hear that here. 

AX8 vs Helix comes down to how you’ll use it, IMO. I went with Helix because of the I/O, loops, exp pedal, etc. - made it one-stop shopping for me. 


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

I think it’s down to which one you like for ease of use or programming difficulty now. They are different, but can easily be programmed to sound identical (at least to most people)


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I'm itching for something new and after a couple of local guitar deals falling through and buying little odds and ends for myself has not filled the void.., I'm still looking. I played with someone this summer that brought an FX Ultra and I dug it, now the AX8 is 1200 bucks US and its somewhat tempting. I like the simplicity and size of it over the Line6, the tones seems to be a bit more natural and with editing software thats usable being available for both I'd like to try something out. It's tempting for sure.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

I’d like you to try too! I’ve been looking for a long time at these new modelers but I can’t put down $1500 just to satisfy my curiosity. But if you do it... 


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Ricktoberfest said:


> I’d like you to try too! I’ve been looking for a long time at these new modelers but I can’t put down $1500 just to satisfy my curiosity. But if you do it...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Local guy listed on Kijiji yesterday but he's firm and the price is same as new. 

I placed a wanted ad on TGP, let's see what happens.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Keep an eye on toronto kijiji/CL and get someone to ship?

My brother has a helix and he gets some great tones for what he does. One day I'll get him to make a "classic rock" patch to silence the haters haha. At this point it's about comfort dialling in the unit, as rick said.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

I have both actually. I posted a review a while back of my thoughts on the two.
https://guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/helix-vs-ax8-review-comparison.80615/

In short, I prefer the raw amp/cab tones in the AX8. But Helix is WAY easier to program/use, especially onboard the unit with no computer connection. If you don't need all the extra IO and hardware features of Helix, Helix LT is about the same price as AX8.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

jbealsmusic said:


> I have both actually. I posted a review a while back of my thoughts on the two.
> https://guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/helix-vs-ax8-review-comparison.80615/
> 
> In short, I prefer the raw amp/cab tones in the AX8. But Helix is WAY easier to program/use, especially onboard the unit with no computer connection. If you don't need all the extra IO and hardware features of Helix, Helix LT is about the same price as AX8.


Thanks for the feedback and link to the reviews, I think you laid it out well. I'm still not 100 percent convinced I need one but it would be nice to try and I'm leaning towards the AX8 just for the reason that I haven't ever had a chance. I should sleep on it one more night....


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## theroan (Oct 7, 2008)

I switched to the Helix over a year ago and it definitely lives up to the hype. I had a Mesa Mark V combo with a matching 1x12 and Mesa Royal Atlantic with a 4x12, both sold now. I've played with other musicians who didn't even know that I was using a modeller. When it comes to the AX8 debate I think the Helix wins. At this point I've heard enough of the amp comparisons to say that they both sound great. But as far as I know the Helix wins for overdrives, Helix wins for ease use, Helix wins for UI, Helix wins for flexibility (routing, multiple amps). If you don't want to ever buy IRs or never need to tweak on the fly or if you want to model tones down to a component level, then yes, go AX8. But I can't see that being most players.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

The debate is strong between these two and depending where you go to get the info both sides can build a winning argument.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

vadsy said:


> The debate is strong between these two and depending where you go to get the info both sides can build a winning argument.


Yup. I really think at this stage in the modelling world, it comes down to what you're comfortable with.

Hell, get a cheap laptop, power amp and VST's and surprise people haha.

I want either unit just to get my brothers tones...


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

vadsy said:


> The debate is strong between these two and depending where you go to get the info both sides can build a winning argument.


It’s also a question of if you want an amp sim or pedalboard sim. If you’re gonna keep using your BJunior as your monitor that changes things too! As you know I use my cheap modeler as a pedal board partly because I like having that amp in the room sound right beside me when I play. I still use the in ears, but I’m not a huge fan of the mic’d amp sound in live playing. It’s the difference between listening to a recorded song loudly and listening to someone play that same song through an amp beside you. Some are ok with that- I haven’t yet decided for myself. 


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Ricktoberfest said:


> It’s also a question of if you want an amp sim or pedalboard sim. If you’re gonna keep using your BJunior as your monitor that changes things too! As you know I use my cheap modeler as a pedal board partly because I like having that amp in the room sound right beside me when I play. I still use the in ears, but I’m not a huge fan of the mic’d amp sound in live playing. It’s the difference between listening to a recorded song loudly and listening to someone play that same song through an amp beside you. Some are ok with that- I haven’t yet decided for myself.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No amps as monitors, no old gear, ..this would have to be something completely standalone for it to be worth it for me. Guitar to AX8 to FOH and in-ear monitors to hear myself, that would be the goal with something like this. I've tried the Helix a couple of times, but nothing in depth, and after playing with Kayla this summer I think it would be rad to try the AX8.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

vadsy said:


> No amps as monitors, no old gear, ..this would have to be something completely standalone for it to be worth it for me. Guitar to AX8 to FOH and in-ear monitors to hear myself, that would be the goal with something like this. I've tried the Helix a couple of times, but nothing in depth, and after playing with Kayla this summer I think it would be rad to try the AX8.


When you get tired of it, I’ll buy it from you at half price! Kidding- Jenn would kill me even at half price. If you do go for this I’m really curious about whether you like it. Pointy double cutaway guitars and now digital modeling! Never thought I’d see the day. 


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Ricktoberfest said:


> When you get tired of it, I’ll buy it from you at half price! Kidding- Jenn would kill me even at half price. If you do go for this I’m really curious about whether you like it. Pointy double cutaway guitars and now digital modeling! Never thought I’d see the day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That seems to be the other beautiful thing about the Fractal gear, resale is great. We haven't seen what the Helix will do, will it be like the rest of the Line6 stuff? Imma make another offer to the local guy today, if that doesn't work I'm buying new.

The double cutaway PRS guy said no to my offer, it was a respectful conversation, but now I see him lowering the price slowly to what I offered him weeks ago. How do you list on the Kij and not expect to haggle a little bit? Weird.


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## theroan (Oct 7, 2008)

I've noticed with Canadians that people are far less concerned with market value than they are with how much they want to get out of whatever product they're selling. Many times with sellers I'll compile ads from all over (kijiji, CL, ebay, forums etc) as a means to demonstrate that the price I'm offering is reasonable in comparison to the same or similar product. Even when their price is totally out of whack, they refuse to budge. When I our dollar was better I could lay out how I could buy the same thing in the states and with shipping and conversion it would still be cheaper than their price and still nothing. Now I can't even do that. Really frustrating.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

theroan said:


> I've noticed with Canadians that people are far less concerned with market value than they are with how much they want to get out of whatever product they're selling. Many times with sellers I'll compile ads from all over (kijiji, CL, ebay, forums etc) as a means to demonstrate that the price I'm offering is reasonable in comparison to the same or similar product. Even when their price is totally out of whack, they refuse to budge. When I our dollar was better I could lay out how I could buy the same thing in the states and with shipping and conversion it would still be cheaper than their price and still nothing. Now I can't even do that. Really frustrating.


I used to be like that too but unless I really want it I just move along, I prepare myself for the possible rejection before going in with my offer. If it's a no, it wasn't meant to be. I'm going to be US bound a couple of times before the end of the year, I'll just pick one up.


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## neldom (Apr 29, 2009)

Vadsy, now that you're breaking down your digital barriers, if you're looking for input, you should check with Steadly this is definitely his forte..


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

neldom said:


> Vadsy, now that you're breaking down your digital barriers, if you're looking for input, you should check with Steadly this is definitely his forte..


I've owned the Zoom pedal he recommended, it was terrible and its probably the reason we haven't been speaking to each other.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

vadsy said:


> The debate is strong between these two and depending where you go to get the info both sides can build a winning argument.


Agreed. Both are excellent and both can be made to sound fantastic with time. I don't regret selling all my amps and pedals at all. I dove right in and haven't looked back. 

It takes some getting used-to, but there are lots of primers out there that can help.



vadsy said:


> That seems to be the other beautiful thing about the Fractal gear, resale is great. We haven't seen what the Helix will do, will it be like the rest of the Line6 stuff? Imma make another offer to the local guy today, if that doesn't work I'm buying new.


fwiw - I paid full price for my Helix at L&M and just passed the 1 year anniversary. I've had absolutely no problems at all - nothing physical, nothing software-oriented. I use it constantly at home, rehearse with it every week and gig it regularly (3-4x/mth). It's the only gear I own (no amps, no pedals left), so it gets used a LOT. It's held up really well.

I was a little leery about it as well, but Line 6 seems to have taken a lot of time and put in the effort to make a really road-worthy piece of gear.

I recently re-upped my warranty through L&M for another year since it's my main piece of gear. Cost me another $80 for a full year's coverage. That's something to consider if you're looking at new vs. used.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

There was this not long ago.

https://www.guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/helix-vs-ax8-review-comparison.80615/


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

nkjanssen said:


> I've owned and sold a lot of Line 6 stuff over the years. I have a Helix LT now. It seems a cut above previous Line 6 stuff to me. I got it for adding small little guitar bits here and there into recordings. For fundamental sounds, I still like to use amps and pedals. Seems to work well for what I'm using it for, though. Haven't tried the AX8, but did used to own an AxeFX and hated the interface. The Helix seems a lot simpler. That translates into me getting more done with it.
> 
> Nice use of "Imma", by the way.


I am under the impression that currently the computer editors for both the AX8 and the Helix are relatively on par in terms of ease of use, no? Have you tried? The limited experience I've had with the Helix it seemed simple and easy to operate, as most of the Line6 stuff over the years. I guess if I go the Fractal way it could be something new to learn.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

hollowbody said:


> I was a little leery about it as well, but Line 6 seems to have taken a lot of time and put in the effort to make a really road-worthy piece of gear.


I do agree that this doesn't seem like the regular run of the mill Line6 gear, hopefully it lasts and holds some value. I've owned plenty of their stuff and it is so discouraging to almost give the stuff away after a couple of years, basically worthless pedalboards that were once top dollar units. I haven't had any issues with breakage but read plenty, still that doesn't matter to me at this point as most have said that this is a really solid built unit.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

LanceT said:


> There was this not long ago.
> 
> https://www.guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/helix-vs-ax8-review-comparison.80615/


I actually missed this thread completely the first time it was posted but it was brought up in an earlier post here, I found it helpful.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Another quick question for the current AX8/Helix users, what are you using for monitors? Headphones, studio monitors, powered wedge, etc..,?


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Studio Monitors at home/office. Powered wedge if playing along with other musicians.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

vadsy said:


> Another quick question for the current AX8/Helix users, what are you using for monitors? Headphones, studio monitors, powered wedge, etc..,?


Lol. All of the above! 

I normally start building a patch on headphones (I used a pair of Senn HD280s), then once I've got everything where I want it, I switch to my little powered monitors - they're Fostex PM0.3s, which are tiny little 3" drivers, but it gives me a better sense of "space" on the patch then the headphones do. Final tinkering happens on my Yorkville keyboard amp, or on my NX55P powered speakers. Once I've got the patch ready to go, I run it at stage volume (either at home, or at the rehearsal space) and then do some final tinkering. Usually, this is just EQing - adding to taking away top end or bottom end.

I usually keep a running tally in my head of which patches sounded good, ok and bad when we play a show and then I'll go back and make changes as required.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

vadsy said:


> I am under the impression that currently the computer editors for both the AX8 and the Helix are relatively on par in terms of ease of use, no? Have you tried? The limited experience I've had with the Helix it seemed simple and easy to operate, as most of the Line6 stuff over the years. I guess if I go the Fractal way it could be something new to learn.


I can't speak to the Fractal unit, as I haven't had any direct experience with it, but the computer software editor for the Helix is really great. It's pretty easy to use Helix itself to create/edit patches and I do that often when I'm on-stage if I need to EQ something, etc., but when it comes to building patches, I work solely on the computer with my Helix plugged-in via the USB cable.

fwiw - Line 6 has also recently released Helix Native, which runs on our computer like a VST, which means that I can boot into the Helix software on my PC, created/modify/edit patches, etc as much as I want and never have to actually connect the pedalboard to my machine until it's time to sync patches. This may/may not be handy for you as an option to the hardware version entirely. It has all the same algorithms as Helix, but it's solely on your machine. It's also a neat way to use Helix without having to bother unloading it from your cases (which is handy if you're a gigging musician and all your gear lives in road cases in a stack in the corner of your living room )


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

jbealsmusic said:


> Studio Monitors at home/office. Powered wedge if playing along with other musicians.


What kind of powered wedge? Anyone try the big names?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

nkjanssen said:


> No, I've never actually tried the computer editors. Way too much of a Luddite for that.


Understood but I'm sure it isn't true. 

I tried the Pod500 back in the day, just a fun experiment as it was priced very well. I used the computer editor but didn't really like it. A few years ago I picked up an H9 and I love the bluetooth capability and I do everything from an iPad, I don't think I've used the pedal for any sort of edits or setup.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

vadsy said:


> What kind of powered wedge? Anyone try the big names?


If you do pick an AX8 up, there’s a couple JBL 10” powered monitors around to borrow. I’ve used them in the past to try out modeling. They’re not bad and will let you know if it’s worth buying better ones. 


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Our main guitar guy in the hard rock project was an early adopter of Helix. We play DI into a mixer, out to headphone amp, into high end/custom earbuds. Well, he spent hours and hours dialing, never had a tone I liked or that worked in our mix, he’d get something he liked solo and it would just disappear in the mix. That said, he doesn’t like bright cutting type tone much, doesn’t (or refuses to) understand that in a mix it won’t sound as bright.

He’s gone back to micing my Dual Rec thru my 1x12 ^)@# into the board. Sounds awesome.

He also had all kinds of problems balancing output on different fx, and getting other fx to play nice with the Helix. He’s too proud to take his lumps and be done with it. That’s him tho, he also has some guitars to move that he has unrealistic expectations on pricing.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## 14786 (Feb 3, 2016)

Had both. Both sound awesome. For ease of use, Helix all the way. I also think the Helix sounds more amp like and less refined than the AX8, which i prefer. This is also with using the same IR's on each unit. Another advantage of the Helix is that it integrates with an existing amp MUCH better than the AX8. That's the Helix plexiglass bright with an OH IR

__
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fryanandlindsay-purdue%2Fhelix-acdc-2


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Loudlikelove said:


> Had both. Both sound awesome. For ease of use, Helix all the way. I also think the Helix sounds more amp like and less refined than the AX8, which i prefer. This is also with using the same IR's on each unit. Another advantage of the Helix is that it integrates with an existing amp MUCH better than the AX8. That's the Helix plexiglass bright with an OH IR


That sounded great!

Not sure I agree about which sounds more "amp like", but you did just remind me... Another benefit to Helix not mentioned yet is that the amp controls in the amp block match the original amp. On AX8, every amp has the same generic control set. All the right options are there (as well as some special ones), but you have to look up the Axe-wiki to find out what each knob does because they aren't labelled correctly. That get frustrating really quickly.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

vadsy said:


> What kind of powered wedge? Anyone try the big names?


I wouldn't bother. There's a huge push for manufacturers to get their FRFR speakers out there, but if you stop to think about it, ALL PA speakers are designed to be FRFR. If you need to have a monitor wedge, get something like the Alto or EV ZLX line for a cheap solution, or if you want something more robust, there's Yorkville's tried-and-true E10P. I wouldn't bother with a Friedman, etc FRFR because you're just paying for a label. 



jbealsmusic said:


> That sounded great!
> 
> Not sure I agree about which sounds more "amp like", but you did just remind me... Another benefit to Helix not mentioned yet is that the amp controls in the amp block match the original amp. On AX8, every amp has the same generic control set. All the right options are there (as well as some special ones), but you have to look up the Axe-wiki to find out what each knob does because they aren't labelled correctly. That get frustrating really quickly.


I did read that the Fractal units took quite a bit of fussing-with to get going, whereas the Helix is something you can take out of the box, plug in and start working with without even looking at the manual.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

keto said:


> Our main guitar guy in the hard rock project was an early adopter of Helix. We play DI into a mixer, out to headphone amp, into high end/custom earbuds. Well, he spent hours and hours dialing, never had a tone I liked or that worked in our mix, he’d get something he liked solo and it would just disappear in the mix. That said, he doesn’t like bright cutting type tone much, doesn’t (or refuses to) understand that in a mix it won’t sound as bright.
> 
> He’s gone back to micing my Dual Rec thru my 1x12 ^)@# into the board. Sounds awesome.
> 
> He also had all kinds of problems balancing output on different fx, and getting other fx to play nice with the Helix. He’s too proud to take his lumps and be done with it. That’s him tho, he also has some guitars to move that he has unrealistic expectations on pricing.


Lots of people complain about this aspect of Helix/Fractal. Bottom line is that more than any amp, these are units that you need to _learn_. If you put the time in, they'll sound great (like Loudlikelove's sample, which I bet would cut through no prob), but if you don't put in the time, learn how to EQ properly, etc., they won't give you the sound you want as easily as a tube amp will. There's a definitely versatility vs. ease-of-use trade-off with these digital modelers.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

vadsy said:


> What kind of powered wedge? Anyone try the big names?


I've tried several. They will all work fine. I was an early adopter of the EV ELX112p when they came out initially at around $500. I now use a prototype GRFR cab I built for myself.


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## 14786 (Feb 3, 2016)

jbealsmusic said:


> That sounded great!
> 
> Not sure I agree about which sounds more "amp like", but you did just remind me... Another benefit to Helix not mentioned yet is that the amp controls in the amp block match the original amp. On AX8, every amp has the same generic control set. All the right options are there (as well as some special ones), but you have to look up the Axe-wiki to find out what each knob does because they aren't labelled correctly. That get frustrating really quickly.


Yeah, that's just my perception. But that could very well be it. I honestly got lost in all the extra parameters in the Fractal. The Helix has the same controls as the amp it's modelling and i find that the controls respond like the amp they're based off of as well. There's no right or wrong answer, just what works for the individual. Bottom line, if you can't get equally great sounds out of Helix/Fractal/Kemper, it's not the unit.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

jbealsmusic said:


> I've tried several. They will all work fine. I was an early adopter of the EV ELX112p when they came out initially at around $500. I now use a prototype GRFR cab I built for myself.


I've used the EV ELX stuff a few times and it definitely seems like a great value. Lots of good reviews of the Alto 210 and 212 as well. I might be looking at getting a pair of 210s for the band as monitors.


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## Brewhouse (Mar 6, 2017)

I've owned the Axe II, the Kemper, and finally the Helix. Had FRFR setups for all three. Ease of use had the Helix winning by a long shot. It's very intuitive and logical in its layout if that helps. I found Fractal stuff complicated and unless you're a 'tweaker' and enjoy sitting for a long time making changes and learning way too much, stay away. I actually found the Kemper had the best raw sounds, I did buy a few bundles with the Kemper and was impressed. For me, overall I'd say the Helix is ahead of the class just for the ease of use. All three are incredible rigs, each brings an 'A' game.

That being said - I've sold or traded all three and am back to a tube amp (or three) and a bunch of stomps for effects. Not because it's better, I'm just old school and had to try the modellers to know for certain. The 'amp in a room' thing is real, at least to me.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Brewhouse said:


> I've owned the Axe II, the Kemper, and finally the Helix. Had FRFR setups for all three. Ease of use had the Helix winning by a long shot. It's very intuitive and logical in its layout if that helps. I found Fractal stuff complicated and unless you're a 'tweaker' and enjoy sitting for a long time making changes and learning way too much, stay away. I actually found the Kemper had the best raw sounds, I did buy a few bundles with the Kemper and was impressed. For me, overall I'd say the Helix is ahead of the class just for the ease of use. All three are incredible rigs, each brings an 'A' game.
> 
> That being said - I've sold or traded all three and am back to a tube amp (or three) and a bunch of stomps for effects. Not because it's better, I'm just old school and had to try the modellers to know for certain. *The 'amp in a room' thing is real, at least to me.*


It's definitely something that you need to get used to. Although, having said that, I love that I can play a show on a tiny stage and not worry about bringing an amp and just running into the monitors. I've had to Tetris myself and my rig onto a postage-stamp stage too many times!


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## 14786 (Feb 3, 2016)

Brewhouse said:


> I've owned the Axe II, the Kemper, and finally the Helix. Had FRFR setups for all three. Ease of use had the Helix winning by a long shot. It's very intuitive and logical in its layout if that helps. I found Fractal stuff complicated and unless you're a 'tweaker' and enjoy sitting for a long time making changes and learning way too much, stay away. I actually found the Kemper had the best raw sounds, I did buy a few bundles with the Kemper and was impressed. For me, overall I'd say the Helix is ahead of the class just for the ease of use. All three are incredible rigs, each brings an 'A' game.
> 
> That being said - I've sold or traded all three and am back to a tube amp (or three) and a bunch of stomps for effects. Not because it's better, I'm just old school and had to try the modellers to know for certain. The 'amp in a room' thing is real, at least to me.


This is very true. That "Amp in the room" is tough to beat! Last gig i ran a plexi patch and used the fx loop to send one path without cab sim to a quilter power amp into a 112 bogner cab and the other path was with an own hammer IR to front of house. It sounded awesome out front AND on stage! I think this is the route i'll go with from now on.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Loudlikelove said:


> That "Amp in the room" is tough to beat!


Jamming alone or in a small room with a band, absolutely! But live? Not for me...

In my case, after going the direct route with in-ear monitors for so long (most of the 2000's), I actually prefer the polished production of that over the "amp in the room" sound/feel. Maybe it's because I also used to work as a live sound tech. Some of the best bands I've ever heard (or mixed) live were bands that went direct and used in-ears. It doesn't take long working behind the mixing desk before you realize the importance of controlled stage volume. The more control you have over the volume on stage, the better control you have over the final product everyone hears in the audience.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

OH BOY. There's a big announcement from NAMM today:

Helix Firmware 2.50 (Helix Floor, Rack/Control, LT)

AVAILABLE SOON—DON'T LOOK FOR IT NOW!

New Amps (2)

Cali Texas Ch2, based on* the drive channel of the MESA/Boogie® Lonestar (Ch1 coming later)
Placater Dirty, based on* the BE/HBE channel of the Friedman BE-100 (Clean channel coming later)

* All product names are trademarks of their respective owners, which are in no way associated or affiliated with Line 6.

New HX Effects (6)

Delay > Multi Pass (Mono, Stereo), Line 6 Original bandpass-filtered multitap delay
Reverb > Glitz (Mono, Stereo), Line 6 Original
Reverb > Ganymede (Mono, Stereo), Line 6 Original
Reverb > Searchlights (Mono, Stereo), Line 6 Original
Reverb > Plateaux (Mono, Stereo), Line 6 Original
Reverb > Double Tank (Mono, Stereo), Line 6 Original

New Legacy Effects Models (77)

Helix Floor, Rack/Control, and LT now include a library of effects from M13, M9, M5, DL4, DM4, FM4, and MM4. These appear in a new "Legacy" subcategory in the model list.

Distortion > Tube Drive
Distortion > Screamer
Distortion > Overdrive
Distortion > Classic Dist
Distortion > Heavy Dist
Distortion > Colordrive
Distortion > Buzz Saw
Distortion > Facial Fuzz
Distortion > Jumbo Fuzz
Distortion > Fuzz Pi
Distortion > Jet Fuzz
Distortion > Line 6 Drive
Distortion > Line 6 Distortion
Distortion > Sub Oct Fuzz
Distortion > Octave Fuzz
Dynamics > Tube Comp
Dynamics > Red Comp
Dynamics > Blue Comp
Dynamics > Blue Comp Treb
Dynamics > Vetta Comp
Dynamics > Vetta Juice
Dynamics > Boost Comp
Modulation > Pattern Tremolo
Modulation > Panner
Modulation > Bias Tremolo
Modulation > Opto Tremolo
Modulation > Script Phase
Modulation > Panned Phaser
Modulation > Barberpole
Modulation > Dual Phaser
Modulation > U-Vibe
Modulation > Phaser
Modulation > Pitch Vibrato
Modulation > Dimension
Modulation > Analog Chorus
Modulation > Tri Chorus
Modulation > Analog Flanger
Modulation > Jet Flanger
Modulation > AC Flanger
Modulation > 80A Flanger
Modulation > Frequency Shift
Modulation > Ring Modulator
Modulation > Rotary Drum
Modulation > Rotary Drm/Horn
Delay > Ping Pong
Delay > Dynamic
Delay > Stereo
Delay > Digital
Delay > Dig w/ Mod
Delay > Reverse
Delay > Lo Res
Delay > Tube Echo
Delay > Tape Echo
Delay > Sweep Echo
Delay > Echo Platter
Delay > Analog Echo
Delay > Analog w/ Mod
Delay > Auto-Volume Echo
Delay > Multi-Head
Pitch/Synth > Bass Octaver
Pitch/Synth > Smart Harmony
Pitch/Synth > Octi Synth
Pitch/Synth > Synth O Matic
Pitch/Synth > Attack Synth
Pitch/Synth > Synth String
Pitch/Synth > Growler
Filter > Voice Box
Filter > V Tron
Filter > Q Filter
Filter > Seeker
Filter > Obi Wah
Filter > Tron Up
Filter > Tron Down
Filter > Throbber
Filter > Slow Filter
Filter > Spin Cycle
Filter > Comet Trails

Improvements/Changes

If a Snapshot has been given a custom switch color, that switch ring now displays a dim color when not active
12 of Helix’s 17 reverbs originally appeared in M-Class processors and Verbzilla. As such, they’ve been moved into the new “Legacy” subcategory within the Reverb category
Helix's tempo no longer responds to pressing TAP at tempi lower than 40.0 BPM (Beats Per Minute). This is to ensure that multiple fast tap entries are recognized properly, as previously, they could be seen as one really slow tap entry. You may still manually select a tempo all the way down to 20.0 BPM and your presets can still be saved with tempi down to 20.0 BPM—just touch TAP and turn Knob 6 (BPM)


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

hollowbody said:


> OH BOY. There's a big announcement from NAMM today:
> 
> Helix Firmware 2.50 (Helix Floor, Rack/Control, LT)
> 
> ...


Some great new additions in there, and a ton of other fun stuff to play with. This thing just keeps getting better and better. I'll be excited to try the Lonestar model, since I'm a huge fan of Andy Timmons.

Honestly, it's been over a year and the AX8 now has a permanent home collecting dust at the office. I hit the fx-limit and DSP wall way too many times on it. Helix is so much more intuitive, easy to program, and more flexible. It has wound up the winner for me.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I figured he'd be into that. My brother is pretty stoked.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

jbealsmusic said:


> Some great new additions in there, and a ton of other fun stuff to play with. This thing just keeps getting better and better. I'll be excited to try the Lonestar model, since I'm a huge fan of Andy Timmons.
> 
> Honestly, it's been over a year and the AX8 now has a permanent home collecting dust at the office. I hit the fx-limit and DSP wall way too many times on it. Helix is so much more intuitive, easy to program, and more flexible. It has wound up the winner for me.


A lot of those M-series effects are really useful and I'll probably end up going to them. I'm still not impressed with the Helix's fuzzes and I can't quite get the flanger/phasers to do the barberpole/jet-plane whoosh that I want, which I know I can get out of the M-series effects. Also those synth effects were really useful as well.

The Lonestar and Friedman are also both going to get a LOT of mileage!

On top of that, all the reverbs are getting tweaks to bring them closer to Strymon Big Sky-type quality. Kudos to Line 6 for all their work in making a product that really hits it out of the park.


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## weaksauce (Mar 20, 2006)

I can’t wait to update my LT and Native to 2.50!


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

New from Fractal, Axe-FX 3

Axe-Fx III Preamp - Effects Processor - Fractal Audio Systems


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

vadsy said:


> New from Fractal, Axe-FX 3
> 
> Axe-Fx III Preamp - Effects Processor - Fractal Audio Systems


Is it bigger than before? that looks like 3U and I think the old AxeFx were all 2U?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

hollowbody said:


> Is it bigger than before? that looks like 3U and I think the old AxeFx were all 2U?


I don’t know but it looks bigger for sure. This is certainly overkill for a guy like myself but it may make the predecessor units better available on the used market. A couple of other forums, and former members of GC, have a lot to say about it although most of it isn’t as important to me as actually trying out a Fractal and Helix to compare.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

vadsy said:


> I don’t know but it looks bigger for sure. This is certainly overkill for a guy like myself but it may make the predecessor units better available on the used market. A couple of other forums, and former members of GC, have a lot to say about it although most of it isn’t as important to me as actually trying out a Fractal and Helix to compare.


I haven't had a chance to use the Fractal products, but from what I hear, it seems like Fractal has that extra Nth degree of accuracy/polish/mojo/whatever when it comes to their models. Might be what sells you if that's your bag, but for me, the Helix UI and I/O sold me.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Fractal went from 2U to 3U, yes. This one has a wild amount of power from what little I've read.

I have *looked* at my brother's Helix LT and used an axe ultra in a jam and home recording scenario. I'd have to A/B/C with a Kemper to see what I would actually end up with. The good news is, I'm not in the market haha.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Budda said:


> Fractal went from 2U to 3U, yes. This one has a wild amount of power from what little I've read.
> 
> I have *looked* at my brother's Helix LT and used an axe ultra in a jam and home recording scenario. I'd have to A/B/C with a Kemper to see what I would actually end up with. The good news is, I'm not in the market haha.


Incredible. I bet it's gonna be a monster. It doesn't happen often, but there's the odd occasion when I hit the DSP limit with my Helix and have to be creative to figure out what to do. It's usually with indie-rock or Top 40 stuff when I'm using a few different reverbs and then have to use a couple different amps as well. 

I'd love to try a Fractal one day - like really sit down with one for a month or two and see what's up. It look me a couple months with Helix before I was really confident with making good patches and had figured out how to utilize some of the features to their fullest, so it would take a while with the AxeFx, too.

I'm trying to get to the point where I don't need a full pedalboard - just a control unit and an expression pedal. Helix is improving and adding to its effects, so I'm looking at ditching my Neo Mini-Vent (the 145 Rotary sim gets pretty close) and with the addition of the M-series stuff, I think I can ditch my Synth 9 as well. That basically leaves me with my B9 as the only outboard effect, so I could get away with having just one FX loop. If I can set-up a decent, small, portable AxeFX rig that is easier to move around than my Helix, I might make the jump - except I REALLY don't want to have to reprogram all my patches from scratch!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

@hollowbody Use helix native and run a laptop.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Budda said:


> @hollowbody Use helix native and run a laptop.


Lol, I wouldn't trust that live! Windows will decide to update itself and reboot the laptop right in the middle of a big solo!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

hollowbody said:


> Lol, I wouldn't trust that live! Windows will decide to update itself and reboot the laptop right in the middle of a big solo!


Thats why it would be a mac


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Budda said:


> Thats why it would be a mac


Whoa, slow down, baller! My band's not making Apple money yet!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

hollowbody said:


> Whoa, slow down, baller! My band's not making Apple money yet!


Same.


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