# Strat truss rod bottomed out-2nd time



## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

A few months ago the truss rod on my '99 American Strat bottomed out. I added four washers and straightened the neck. Recently it bottomed out again. The nut was getting chewed up from all the adjusting, so i ordered a new one and added two more washers as that was all that would fit. I got it straight, the neck very quickly shifted again and now it's bottomed out again. 
I'm not sure where to go from here, is the neck toast, or is there something more I can do? 
None of my cheap guitars have this problem, I'm not too thrilled with Fender right now.


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## Yamariv (Jan 15, 2018)

Wow, I'm no expert but it sounds like the body side of the truss rod is pulling through somehow.. Is the nut end securely on the threads or could they be getting stripped?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Yamariv said:


> Wow, I'm no expert but it sounds like the body side of the truss rod is pulling through somehow.. Is the nut end securely on the threads or could they be getting stripped?


Excellent logical comment and question. 

I'm following with interest.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Sure sounds like the wood gave way at the base of the neck. Pull it off and check. You may need to add a washer there.


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

Do you mean remove the rod completely? How would I do that?


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

A sign of truss rod trouble, and an easy solution. | stewmac.com

Not sure if you have the same problem but worth a look.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

keefsdad said:


> Do you mean remove the rod completely? How would I do that?


First check and see if it’s pulling into the wood. I’ve never removed a truss rod but if I had to, I’d go look at the Stew-Mac videos.


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## alwaysflat (Feb 14, 2016)

Re Dan Erlwine helping the truss rod by clamping the neck, you can make some neck cauls with a hole saw on a piece of 2x4 and just split it after. Of course having clamps helps too. Also watch that your washers aren't "cupping" .. some soft thin washers will do that.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Great thread guys ! These very days, I was thinking about just adding a washer or two under the bolt but I feared that putting more pressure between the neck and the fretboard could damage the fretboard (or cause a disruption of the glued joint).
I understand from Stewmac report that if the unscrewed truss rod show it slides too much along the neck, adding a washer or more could do it (unless the soldered joint is broken... but then a washer would not help, nor causes any damage).
Add on : I wonder how many necks were resetted instead of putting a washer on the truss rod...


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## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

My guess is the truss rod is stripped. Already added a new nut and more washers, then tightened. Tune the guitar adding tension and it’s back to crap again. So either adding a bunch of the wrong size washers crushed or damaged the shoulder inside the neck or the truss rod itself has no threads left. 

Nothing to do with being a fender, expensive or cheap guitar. Either something went wrong(truss rod screw chewed up by to many adjustments in the first place) or some sort of defect which if think is pretty rare.


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## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

This is probably similar to yours see the gold washer in there. If you take the nut all the way off can you take all the washers out? 

If not you probably have the washers jammed into the wood, so yeah it feels like the nut is tight only because the washers are jammed up. Try to remove the washers first. Also what washers did you use, flat washers or the one with the little slit which are actually lock washers.


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

JonnyD said:


> This is probably similar to yours see the gold washer in there. If you take the nut all the way off can you take all the washers out?
> 
> If not you probably have the washers jammed into the wood, so yeah it feels like the nut is tight only because the washers are jammed up. Try to remove the washers first. Also what washers did you use, flat washers or the one with the little slit which are actually lock washers.
> 
> View attachment 239116


I used lock washers but I flattened them before I inserted them.


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## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

Yup that’s how I ruined my 62 jazz bass. I went to the local Home Depot, grabbed a bag of the lock washers, flattened them and tossed one in. 

So when you flatten it, tighten it down, that lock washer has now opened up and is biting into the should of neck(where the base of the nut seats), check out the previous picture. 

So it feels tight only because the now multiple lock washers cannot move. The proper flat washers will spin with the nut allowing you more adjustment out of the rod. 

That’s why I asked if you can remove the washers, they are probably jammed in and may not be able to come out. See the washers to the right, that’s what I used. They do not stay flat.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

JonnyD said:


> Yup that’s how I ruined my 62 jazz bass. I went to the local Home Depot, grabbed a bag of the lock washers, flattened them and tossed one in.
> 
> So when you flatten it, tighten it down, that lock washer has now opened up and is biting into the should of neck(where the base of the nut seats), check out the previous picture.
> 
> ...


Sad news about the 62 Jazz Bass. Sorry to hear. Tough way to learn.

Excellent information! 
Thanks for taking the time to write this and for posting the pics.


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## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

It was a American reissue 62(not a actual vintage) but yeah it was not a good day. I did end up replacing the truss rod though for a total of $20. Hours of labour but still in the end it was fixed. Since it was a heel adjust type I had to cut out the rosewood section of the first fret, exposing the truss rod anchor. Removed that and pulled the truss rod out. 

The headstock adjust type and depending on maple or rosewood board is a little more involved.


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## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

Seems to me that there is possibly one of two things happening here.
1) the fixed end of the trust rod is somehow slipping forward within the neck. 
2) the shoulders of the pocket at the threaded end of the rod are compressed exposing the un-threaded section of the truss rod.

In regards to the lock washers if you physically twisted them flat I think they would be ok (I would not recommend using them tho) 
Lock washers are designed to prevent loosening and the damage to the nut portion suggests you did not truly flatten the washers.

if i was to guess what is happening to your guitar i think you started out with the a guitar that left the factory with the un-threaded section of the truss rod very close to being exposed, you addressed the issue with the washers but have chewed up the nut and the truss rod pocket possibly exposing a bit more of the un-threaded rod .

you have to get all those lock washers out and see exactly what has happened. hopefully some correct washers will fix things up.... 










Thanks to this thread I learned that fender sells the washers ;-)
when i needed some washers for a similar issue i modified some flat washers
I cut off a bolt and fastened a bunch of washers between hex nuts, chucked it into a cordless drill and ran it against a grinder to turn them to size .


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

JonnyD said:


> Yup that’s how I ruined my 62 jazz bass. I went to the local Home Depot, grabbed a bag of the lock washers, flattened them and tossed one in.
> 
> So when you flatten it, tighten it down, that lock washer has now opened up and is biting into the should of neck(where the base of the nut seats), check out the previous picture.
> 
> ...


Maybe that is the problem. I'll see if i can get the washers out, thanks.


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## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

If you can with a little pick then get the flat washers, I think you’ll be ok.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Is it a bi-flex truss rod? Those are not easy to replace. 
What’s the string gauge?

If it was me, as was advised already, I’d get the lock washers out, check that the trussrod nut isn’t stripped, and then check the threads on the rod.


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## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

My searching for a late 90’s early 2000 American standard neck shows around $500-$700 for a replacement. So hopefully you can get those washers out.


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## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

These might do the trick


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

tomee2 said:


> Is it a bi-flex truss rod? Those are not easy to replace.
> What’s the string gauge?
> 
> If it was me, as was advised already, I’d get the lock washers out, check that the trussrod nut isn’t stripped, and then check the threads on the rod.


Yes, it's a bi-flex. I use 9-46 for strings.


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

JonnyD said:


> My searching for a late 90’s early 2000 American standard neck shows around $500-$700 for a replacement. So hopefully you can get those washers out.


Yeah, no way I would go with a Fender neck for that price.


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## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

are you sure you have a bi-flex truss rod ? 
i would not think you would be able to easily remove the nut/hex cap on a bi-flex rod due to the walnut plug.

What Is a Bi-Flex Truss Rod and How Does It Work?.


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

cbg1 said:


> are you sure you have a bi-flex truss rod ?
> i would not think you would be able to easily remove the nut/hex cap on a bi-flex rod due to the walnut plug.
> 
> What Is a Bi-Flex Truss Rod and How Does It Work?.


I never said it was easy yes, I am sure.


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## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

Ouch....good luck...


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

keefsdad said:


> I never said it was easy yes, I am sure.


OK, so the walnut plug is out? It’s needed for the biflex to work right, but you don’t need that now so no big deal.

Ya, take the truss rod Allen bolt and the washers out. Please report back!


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## nnieman (Jun 19, 2013)

Solo music has fender truss rod nuts and washers
Located in mississauga
Solo Pro Half Moon Truss Rod Washer | Solo Music Gear

Hey on sale - 98 cents down from 99
Score lol

Nathan


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

Ok, so I removed the nut again, I managed to get two of the washers out, I looked down the the hole and the washer at the top seems to be lying flat. I removed the neck, and this is what I see. I'm not sure where to go from here. Should i try to remove that piece of metal?


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## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

That is the truss rod anchor. I would try to remove the washers that you installed before you go any farther.

All the washers need to come out. My guess is that the washers are locking together and preventing you from properly adjusting the rod. It feels like it’s tight but that(to me) is just the nut tightening to the locked washers giving you zero truss rod adjustment.


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

JonnyD said:


> That is the truss rod anchor. I would try to remove the washers that you installed before you go any farther.
> 
> All the washers need to come out. My guess is that the washers are locking together and preventing you from properly adjusting the rod. It feels like it’s tight but that(to me) is just the nut tightening to the locked washers giving you zero truss rod adjustment.


Well, two fell out so they weren't all locked together. I'll try to get them out but i'm not sure how.


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## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

Yeah I don’t think they will all lock together but the first one you put in locked to the seat of the neck where the nut would bottom out without the washers. 

If two are stuck in there that’s the problem, they are stuck and cannot spin, they are locked in place which is what a lock washer is designed to do. 

The picture of the picks I posted is what I used to get my lock washers out.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Some possibilities at Canadian Tire...might work?


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## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

Yeah those will do it. Still a pain to get at but once you get it unstuck they should just slide or fall out.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

greco said:


> Some possibilities at Canadian Tire...might work?
> View attachment 239798
> 
> View attachment 239796


Hey, this looks like the kit my dentist uses. No wonder they tasted bad.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

keefsdad said:


> Ok, so I removed the nut again, I managed to get two of the washers out, I looked down the the hole and the washer at the top seems to be lying flat. I removed the neck, and this is what I see. I'm not sure where to go from here. Should i try to remove that piece of metal?


I don’t see a picture.

Replacement walnut plugs are sold too, not sure where but I remember seeing them.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

tomee2 said:


> I don’t see a picture.


@tomee2 Can you see this pic?


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

greco said:


> @tomee2 Can you see this pic?
> View attachment 239988


So I'm guessing that this is that metal anchor. If the problem isn't with the washers, the threads may be stripped on the anchor or the truss rod that screws into the anchor so watch out for that.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

This thread might be of interest and offer some educational/moral support 

My Truss Rod Repair


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

This also looks "interesting"

From this thread: "Truss Rod Maxed Out"


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Ok I saw that picture. Weird I didn't see t before. 

If this really is a biflex trust rod it is slso anchored to the neck midway down so any repairs related to traditional trust rods won't work. There's a cutaway pic of this on the web somewhere.


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

Thanks for all the info, folks. I have to get some of those pick things and try to get the washers out.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

keefsdad said:


> Thanks for all the info, folks. I have to get some of those pick things and try to get the washers out.


Please report back with pics, this is very interesting.


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

I got the pic things from Canadian Tire, but I can't get any more washers out. I'm not sure where to go from here. I can't afford a new neck right now, but I have a couple of other guitars for gigging, fortunately.


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2019)

Are you able to CAREFULLY use a drill and a Dremel tool to destruct the remaining washers and either get a better purchase on them or take them out in pieces?


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

Player99 said:


> Are you able to CAREFULLY use a drill and a Dremel tool to destruct the remaining washers and either get a better purchase on them or take them out in pieces?


I don't think so. They are pretty deep in the hole.


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## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

How many washers are still stuck in there? If you can find a small long flat blade screw driver, try to tap one side of the washer in farther. Maybe the other side might pop up giving you a little room to grab with a pick.


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

JonnyD said:


> How many washers are still stuck in there? If you can find a small long flat blade screw driver, try to tap one side of the washer in farther. Maybe the other side might pop up giving you a little room to grab with a pick.


That's an idea. I think there's 2 or 3 still in there. I'll try that, thanks.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Is that neck from 2000? Or older? The very first few years of biflex (late 80s?) have a captive plate in there.
What can you see now? Any threads on the rod? Is the nut stripped?

Edit. I see it's a 99. Did you get the new nut?


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

Yes, I got the new nut. I wasn't able to get all the washers out with the Canadian tire tools. Decided to try a different strategy. I put all the washers back in, and tightened the rod as far as it would go (the neck is still off the guitar). There was a bit of a backbow, so I left it for a couple of days. Today I put the neck back on and re-strung it. the neck is straight, but the rod is almost bottomed out. The guitar plays well for now, I'm going to see what happens with the weather change in the next month or two, I'm hoping the neck will shift in my favour, if you know what I mean.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Heavy gauge strings?


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

tomee2 said:


> Heavy gauge strings?


No, I use 9-46


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Loosen it to get rid of back bow, and raise the action..


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

tomee2 said:


> Loosen it to get rid of back bow, and raise the action..


The back bow disappeared when I re-strung it. It is straight now.


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