# Folk recommendation



## GalloDiCiello (Nov 22, 2019)

Hey, went to see a young fella last summer in Wisconsin, Colter Wall. Anyhow, long story short, am trying to play one of his songs, he plays an old Martin. I like that sound, and am thinking of a Norman B20 Folk, or a Simon and Patrick Songsmith Folk. What do yall think of those two ? Thanks for any help, and I look foreward to being a longtime member.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Welcome. Lots of acoustic experts here.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Good guitars. Buy one and play it until your opinion changes.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Welcome to the forum Gallo.
Good choices for guitar. I had two Norman B20's. Gave one to my cousin's son. Still have the other.


----------



## GalloDiCiello (Nov 22, 2019)

KapnKrunch said:


> Welcome. Lots of acoustic experts here.


Cheers Kapm.


----------



## GalloDiCiello (Nov 22, 2019)

KapnKrunch said:


> Welcome. Lots of acoustic experts here.


I think I'd like the Norman, nearest used to me is 150 miles ; thanks Laristotle.


----------



## GalloDiCiello (Nov 22, 2019)

Mooh said:


> Good guitars. Buy one and play it until your opinion changes.


There is an S&P near me, I'll go see it tonight. I played a friends S&P dread and the sound is nice too. Love to hear that Norman though !!! Until I can afford a 1937 Martin 0-18 that is !


----------



## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Fun fact: Colter Wall is (former) Saskatchewan premier Brad Wall’s son.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I too am looking at getting a folk size guitar. What I have found closest to the Martin sound is an Alvarez Masterworks MF-60. The Acoustic Room in Hamilton carries them. The quality of the guitar is every bit as good as a Martin from what I can see. I own an MD-60 at present, a similar guitar in the dreadnaught size.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

GalloDiCiello said:


> Hey, went to see a young fella last summer in Wisconsin, Colter Wall. Anyhow, long story short, am trying to play one of his songs, he plays an old Martin. I like that sound, and am thinking of a Norman B20 Folk, or a Simon and Patrick Songsmith Folk. What do yall think of those two ? Thanks for any help, and I look foreward to being a longtime member.


I like his music.

He tunes down quite a bit and then puts a capo up a few frets at least on some songs - don't know why he does that - could be something to do with the old Martin.

I have 3 Martin Dreds and a Norman B20 Dred. The Norman and Simon and Patrick are gonna be very similar I think. The Norman will likely have laminated cherry back and sides and I don't think that will go anywhere near a Martin sound based on the guitars that I own.

I also have a Sigma DR28V which is a Martin copy. I spent a long time looking for a backup guitar that was similar to my Martins and I ended up with this Sigma. You can look it up but Sigma is Martins old answer to the Japanese imports in the 1970s. Later they sold the name but the guitars are very similar to Martins as for playing and sound is ballpark similar however there is huge difference between my Martin HD28V and the Sigma DR28V copy.

Look at the current Sigma models - they make OM sizes and such in addition to the dreds. I think the Sigma will get you closer to the Martin sound than the cherry wood guitars from Godin. With Sigma though it would be good to play a few because there is some variation between guitars but these are not expensive instruments.

NB - if you are in the US, Sigma was being marketed recently under a different name due to some TM rights or something - can't remember the name but I think they are the same guitars and it's possible that they might be now be available as Sigma. The Sigma guitars I'm talking about are made in China but it's a German company that owns then.

So if this looks like a possible for you then research the Sigma / German versions so that you know which is which because there may be some variations from before the German company took over.

In any event, they are a good guitar; mine has no structural issues in the 5 or 6 years that I've owned it and through a PA it sounds good enough. I put a K&K pickup in it as well as a DeArmond magnetic sound hole pickup so the guitar is kind of a workhorse beast for jams and such where I might start having too much fun and end up smashing stuff or drive my truck over the guitar etc .. lol


----------



## qantor (Nov 19, 2014)

S&P, Norman and Seagull are a bit of the same DNA. I have a S&P woodland pro folk and like it a lot. When I've bought it, I also compared it with a Norman ST40 folk. The S&P has a spruce top and the Norman a cedar top with both mahogany back and side. It was a difficult decision because I liked both. In the end, I decided to choose the S&P. Whatever you choose, you will not be disappointed, the price vs quality on these guitars is excellent. Good Luck. f you are interested in folk-sized guitars, also try their concert hall models.


----------



## 12 stringer (Jan 5, 2019)

What song are you referring to? He plays a Vintage VE440VB, by some accounts, on his Blacktop song and the guitar is either modified or just badly setup to give it that very pronounced fret buzz (but it works for this tune). Otherwise, I think he plays a 00-17 Martin w/mahogany T&S. Two very different guitars. It might be a tad difficult to replicate his sound (and kind of pointless imo..... ). There are many folk sized guitars out there. Recommendations don't mean nothin... you just have to try the thing for yourself. But, Norman, S&P and Art & Lutherie are all good starting points. Martins if you have the $$$ and Sigmas are also worth considering.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

PS Love this guy's tunes.... Awesome "outlaw cow" music.


----------



## Larry (Sep 3, 2016)

I have a 2013 Martin 000-17sm available if your interested. I am only 20 minutes away from Kingsville, Ont.


----------



## GalloDiCiello (Nov 22, 2019)

Wardo said:


> I like his music.
> 
> He tunes down quite a bit and then puts a capo up a few frets at least on some songs - don't know why he does that - could be something to do with the old Martin.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the details on the Sigma, I'll check out whether my local shop has any. Cheers. M


----------



## GalloDiCiello (Nov 22, 2019)

12 stringer said:


> What song are you referring to? He plays a Vintage VE440VB, by some accounts, on his Blacktop song and the guitar is either modified or just badly setup to give it that very pronounced fret buzz (but it works for this tune). Otherwise, I think he plays a 00-17 Martin w/mahogany T&S. Two very different guitars. It might be a tad difficult to replicate his sound (and kind of pointless imo..... ). There are many folk sized guitars out there. Recommendations don't mean nothin... you just have to try the thing for yourself. But, Norman, S&P and Art & Lutherie are all good starting points. Martins if you have the $$$ and Sigmas are also worth considering.
> 
> Good luck and let us know how you make out.
> 
> PS Love this guy's tunes.... Awesome "outlaw cow" music.


Thanks Stringer, will check out the sigmas. In concert, he played what looks like an old martin, got to meet him afterwards, should've asked ! I have seen him play on video one with a starburst... is that the one? Reason for folk is my short damn arms, as to replication, the sincerest for of flattery ! Cheers.


----------



## GalloDiCiello (Nov 22, 2019)

Larry said:


> I have a 2013 Martin 000-17sm available if your interested. I am only 20 minutes away from Kingsville, Ont.


That's awesome Larry,love to try it out, but probably out of my price range !


----------



## Larry (Sep 3, 2016)

GalloDiCiello said:


> That's awesome Larry,love to try it out, but probably out of my price range !


It's in mint condition,..... they only made 1730 of these guitars,....... 3 year run discontinued in 2016.


----------



## Bill Kerrigan (Feb 24, 2018)

I’m not as knowledgeable as many on this forum… but here’s what I’ve experienced so far.

Two years ago, I formed a Montreal acoustic guitar players group… so I’ve been able to listen to the sound of many guitars, including Norman, Simon and Patrick, Art and Lutherie and Seagull. In the equation of price vs. sound, I found it's hard to beat a Godin guitar. They're low maintenance and keep their value. Personally, I bought an Art and Lutherie with a spruce top which I prefer over cedar.

I recently found that elusive old Martin, which I've always wanted to own. (1952 0-18)
But chose not to buy.
Why? Its price was too high, still needed work, no truss rod... and its sound didn't come close to my 2014 Martin 000-16GT (with K&K Pure Mini Acoustic Pickup).

Before Christmas, I was planning to compare an Alvarez Masterworks MF-60 with a small parlour Sigma. (My certified Martin luthier collects and swears by Sigma)

But 2 weeks ago, I played a MacKenzie & Marr Opeongo (OO small body) and bought it on the spot. It's a 12 fret with a slotted headstock and 'open wood finish'... which sounds and feels great.

You can see photos here: BLOG


----------



## Everton FC (Dec 15, 2016)

GalloDiCiello said:


> Hey, went to see a young fella last summer in Wisconsin, Colter Wall. Anyhow, long story short, am trying to play one of his songs, he plays an old Martin. I like that sound, and am thinking of a Norman B20 Folk, or a Simon and Patrick Songsmith Folk. What do yall think of those two ? Thanks for any help, and I look foreward to being a longtime member.


Swift Current's son! I've linked Wall's acoustic set from 2017, Paste Studios NYC. He's gets a great sound out of that Martin 000-15M. Same as Kenny Pattengale of the Milk Carton Kids. I wish I could afford one - I always play them when I got to a music song. One can dream! 






I've read the Sigma 00015-m is one that has a similar sound to the Martin's. You may be able to find one for what you'd pay for the Norman or S&P. I had Songsmith Concert Hall, which had a very woody, but also bright tone. It'd be in the same orbit you're looking for, soundwise, with a similar shape to the Martin. Review of the Sigma, below;


----------



## 12 stringer (Jan 5, 2019)

[QUOTE=" I have seen him play on video one with a starburst... is that the one? ...[/QUOTE]

This is the one I meant which is where he plays, apparently cause its hard to tell, a Vintage brand guitar:


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

[QUOTE="Bill Kerrigan, post: 2572972, member: 28201"

Before Christmas, I was planning to compare an Alvarez Masterworks MF-60 with a small parlour Sigma. (My certified Martin luthier collects and swears by Sigma)

But* 2 weeks ago, I played a MacKenzie & Marr Opeongo (OO small body) and bought it on the spo*t. It's a 12 fret with a slotted headstock and 'open wood finish'... which sounds and feels great.

You can see photos here: BLOG[/QUOTE]

I have looked at these guitars a couple of times and was going to go by their shop and try one on one of my visits to Montreal. They are a quality instrument from what I can see and hear from videos.

They are very sure their guitars will be liked. This is their return policy.

*Fall In Love In Less Than a Week*
_Try any of our guitars in the comfort of your own home. If you don't fall head over heels in love within a week we'll arrange to take it back and issue a full refund (including shipping)._


----------



## GalloDiCiello (Nov 22, 2019)

Everton FC said:


> Swift Current's son! I've linked Wall's acoustic set from 2017, Paste Studios NYC. He's gets a great sound out of that Martin 000-15M. Same as Kenny Pattengale of the Milk Carton Kids. I wish I could afford one - I always play them when I got to a music song. One can dream!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Everton. Will give it a listen. Yeh colter sure can pick that thing ! I hope to see him again next year sometime. Go arsenal!!!!


----------



## Everton FC (Dec 15, 2016)

12 stringer said:


> I have seen him play on video one with a starburst... is that the one? ...[/QUOTE]
> This is the one I meant which is where he plays said:
> 
> 
> > Vintage Historic Series Parlour Acoustic Guitar ~ Aged Finish[/URL]


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Get out to a store and try some out. You might be surprised at the differences in even the exact same models.


----------

