# JCM 800 combo's 4010 vs. 4210



## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Ok so I got all my gear jacked in Vancouver in 2004 and found a great replacement amp at L&M's; a 83 jcm 800 4210(2205) (for 350!!). 2 ch 1x12 (2 x EL34 & 5 x 12ax7)

This was/is my first real tube amp (replaced a 100w valvestate). I love it but lately I find im loving it more for the wrong reasons ( it was a great deal,vintage appeal and it made me feel better after getting all my gear yanked).

I get great tones out of it but i feel it can sound better. I use the tone knob on my PRS to smooth out any harshness on the boost ch. Still has orig speaker. g12 - 80 i think.

So i search for improvements to the tone chain; a 2x12 mesa cab is something i have been looking at.... for 500 used and 650 new its an expensive add on that won't neccesarliy make a drastic tonal improvement. 
i picked up new tubes (6550's, thx jimi) and 3 new sovtek 12ax7's, i put in the preamp tubes but im waiting to take the amp in for tube job/biasing/check up to try out the 6550's.

it was checked out before i bought it but it hasn't had new power tubes since 2004, they still sound good if not better than when i got it but much quiter. I jam in the basement with master at 3-4 and teh OD channel cranked. jammin at friends or at studio i play at 7-9, past 8 the 1x12 doesnt really like it, needs a cab.

Sorry im rambling a bit .....try to get back on track here....

Found a 4010/2204 not so locally but im willing to drive a few hours...
84' Vertical inputs, single channel, 1x12 
The guy wants 1100 and im having a tough time swallowing that esp. since if i drive all the way there to try it im not sure i even want it, thoguh i think i do....if im not making sense the beer is working.....

i know the 4210 has diodes in the boost ch. - to increase gain

4010 has no boost ch. - not as much gain - can be modded for for gain but im already losing my shirt over the amp!

How dirty does a 4010 get cranked? Anybody got one that can help out?? 

I noticed on dr tubes site it notes some other differences but i need some anwsers as to why this is so much better than my combo that i need to pay 3x as much for what better be double the tone at that price.

I have searched utube for vids, most i have seen, there are very few that show the better qualities of both these kickass combos. I may have to find a camera to post some vids of what my tone is like(even though its not the same as being in the room).

BTW i play in my basement most of the time jamming a couple times a month, used to play out, not as much anymore. Like to play everything from metal/punk/rock to classic rock/funk/blues. Im not sure exactly what my ideal tone is but i'll know when i find it.

Setup is PRS mcCarty>wah>amp. Meat, potatoes, beer.

thx for makin it to the end.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

hey there...welcome to the site...!!!...

there's an example of the differences in models here...

1984 Marshall JCM800 2204... thoughts? calling Marshall experts... [Archive] - Harmony Central Forums

just type in "marshall + jcm 800 + holy grail" into google to get a million hits...the main difference between amps is that the vertical input models have jacks attached to the chassis and having flying leads...as opposed to being directly mounted to the pcb board with the horizontal inputs...

"The jack, pots etc. are mounted on the chassis and all connection are all on flying leads to the PCB.
This is the last amps of the classic Marshall build and many consider them to be the last of the best.
The build is bulletproof and the sound is unmatched. "

if you want to hear a JCM 800 4010 cranked...you can try mine out...just set up a time when you're free...


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

check out this link too...
Marshall jcm 800 4010 vs 4210 - Marshall Amp Forum

notable mentions:



> Oh my gosh I totally forgot to mention the 4210 has el34's and the 4010 has 6550's. That will probably make a bit of a difference. They were both retubed a few months ago and thoroughly checked out. Maybe before I say more i should try swapping them and see how they both sound with the different tubes.





> The 4210 should have originally had 6550s if it a USA model.
> Tubes will make a difference in volume and tone. Almost the exact difference you described between the two amps. 6550s will be louder, have more bottom, more headroom and be tighter when turned up.
> The EL34s will breakup earlier.
> 
> ...


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

I've owned a 4010 for a long time. It's my favorite amp. A 2204 in a 1x12 cab. 
IMO the 2203/2204s were the last of the great Marshalls. I've never cared for diode gain on amps - I've bypassed the diodes on my JTM60. 
I've also built a head box to use the amp with cabinets.



> the 4010 has 6550's


should be EL34s - maybe some shipped to the US with 6550s though.

I don't think you need to worry about gain, the high input is serious business on these. You might want to consider an attenuator if you're going to crank it. They are extremely loud.

I love this amp, I'll never sell it. $1100 may seem quite a bit, but you're buying a vintage (can I call it vintage now?) Marshall for that. Compare that to new stuff? Pretty reasonable I think.


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## Big White Tele (Feb 10, 2007)

Ive owned a few . The U.S models I have came with 6550's, and have since been changed to El34's. I think the El34"s sound more traditional.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

thx for all the replies.

Jimi, I might just take you up on that on my next trip to L&M's. I still have your number in an email.

I think the hardest part will be/is letting go of the 4210.... but the money is needed to pay off the debt incurred on a better amp.
What do guys think a used 4210 is worth 7-800??? less/more, its in good condition but the tubes are old....

I think anything referred to as a "holy grail" must be pretty special... BUT, Has this ended your G.A.S. as far as amps are concerned???

I still struggle with the price even though its not THAT much for a holy grail type amp..... 

a later 70's jmp mk2 I saw somewhere was around 1400, just sayin..


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Dwager, i saw one last night on kijiji in calgary for 800, more my price range but for a favorite/holy grail amp the extra 300 would just get eaten up in shipping costs so i mgiht as well start making a classified listing for my 4210... Unless...

"I've bypassed the diodes on my JTM60. "

i don t know much about amp mods...but wouldnt bypassing the diode's on my amp give it that pure tube overdrive. Its not the same circuit but its still got similar guts and components (drake's, el34's, 12ax7's) 

I like having the 2 channels but starting to see the light that is the more superior amp...; can you run a a/b box to the high and low inputs on the 4010 to get from gritty to clean? I know your stuck with the same amp settings still. I guess this is where pedals come in .... 

what do you use to solve the clean/dirty dilemma? especially when the dirty sound you want is in the amp.....

there's always a catch....


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Yes, bypassing the diodes makes the JTM60 a straight tube driven amp. But, I don't know if you can or how to go about it on a 4210. I just 'follow the pictures, solder here'.

No, you can't use an A/B box on a 4010, it isn't 2 channels, just 2 inputs into the same channel. The Tube Amp Book mentions the low input is close to the old JTM45 circuit, the high input adds another 12AX7 gain stage. When you plug into one input, you walk right over the other. I think there is a mod of some kind out there to do this but really, the high input is why guys buy these in the first place.

When I want real clean, I use my JTM60. With the 4010, from clean-er to dirty is a twist of the guitar volume knob. I do use an attenuator, crank the master volume and keep the preamp pretty low, if you want more dirt you may want to lean heavier on the preamp than I do.


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## breakfast (Jun 16, 2009)

Moosehead said:


> Dwager, i saw one last night on kijiji in calgary for 800, more my price range but for a favorite/holy grail amp the extra 300 would just get eaten up in shipping costs so i mgiht as well start making a classified listing for my 4210... Unless...
> 
> "I've bypassed the diodes on my JTM60. "
> 
> ...


To ship an amp like that wouldn't be close to $300! I just shipped my 4x10 bassman (the box ended up being 24"x24"x15" and ~60 lbs) and it cost $55 plus the cost of packing supplies. The downside is that you wouldn't get a chance to play it before you bought it, though.

Good luck!


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Well I got him down to 950, now i just gotta drive out to friggin whitby. Ugh.

Any tube amp buying tips, things to look/listen for.

aside from the obvious scratchy pots, speaker farts ect.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

New amp is a beauty! 

Low input gives a really nice clean tone; compared to the 4210 both have excellent blues tones but this gives a cleaner clean. I'll see how that holds up tomorrow when i can crank the master hehehe.

High input I havent experimented as much; will report back tomorrow...when the wife is working...

Rock on!


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