# How much do you haggle when buying a NEW guitar?



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I buy almost everything used, but I saw a $2k guitar I like a lot at L&M.
I've heard you can negotiate with them, just wondering how much room they would have to move on something like this?


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## cdub66 (Dec 13, 2007)

I suck at haggling, most likely have over-paid for a few things in my time.

Probably stems from working in retail my whole life, mostly with small margins in the first place...then someone wants to haggle? 

So-no, if I'm happy with the posted price I'll buy it, if not I'll pass.

:food-smiley-004:


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

L&M won't really haggle. They guarantee the lowest price on items in the store. If a piece has been in the store for a long time then you may have some leverage but even they dont give a lot off.


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## salv (Sep 24, 2008)

With rising prices they can easily BS you. Example, trust me, you're getting a good price, come back in 2 weeks and this same guitar will be $70 more. What bothers me are these stores that raise prices on current stock.


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## Metal#J# (Jan 1, 2007)

cdub66 said:


> I suck at haggling, most likely have over-paid for a few things in my time.
> 
> Probably stems from working in retail my whole life, mostly with small margins in the first place...then someone wants to haggle?
> 
> ...


I feel the same way. Although, if someone is asking too much I'll offer a fair price with no expectations. I get embarrassed when shopping with people that haggle (my old man at the flea market) and I get pissed if some is being too persistent in haggling with me when I'm already selling an item at a decent price. I guess it's a hobby to some people. Usually the one's that don't come thru in the end:sport-smiley-002:

FWIW, I've bought 2 things from L&M and didn't pay what they were asking either time. No haggling necessary

J


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## waynekp (Aug 9, 2008)

I'm kinda the same way. I do my research on something before hand, so I understand what a good price is. Then when I see something that fits my idea of a good price, I buy it and don't bother haggling. IMO there's no point in haggling if I already think I'm getting a good deal.


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## dan_ (Feb 5, 2008)

From my experiences with L&M, there's no haggle room (at least at the store I've been to). Maybe it's me, or maybe I'm not buying enough from them, but the best I've done is some strings and a few picks. 

As an above poster said, if it's a current item that ehy have no problems moving, you're not going to get any discounts. The mom and pop shops will likely haggle, but often I find that their prices are slightly higher to start.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

*Absolutely*

Haggle away matey. First find out what the MSRP is then minus about 40% and that should give you a good base as to if they are over charging you. And go on line with dealers and get some quotes from them and print them out and negotiate. In these hard times there is always some movement in price, some are just smaller in their ability to knock off dollars. I myself never really buy anything from Long and McQuade I really don't like their stores, too big and not very personal service and you often can't find the same guy who sold you your guitar after 5-8 months, but I do use them as a refrence point for guitars thqat the other stores don't sell.So go in and give them your lowest amount that you want to pay and see what happens ( more than likely they will offer you financing, for the rest ) good luck.ship


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

with L&M, the trick is to carefully look te guitar over from front to back, and have them devalue the guitar for you based on the bumps and scratches that are almost inevitably on the guitar, since L&M doesn't generally much watch over people playing $2000 guitars, for some reason (or they've rented the guitar out to someone for a few weeks, and still don't call the instrument used). that's how you get the guitar for cheaper, IME.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2008)

salv said:


> ... What bothers me are these stores that raise prices on current stock.


All retail industry is going this route. In their minds they already have the piece of gear and if they have to replace it because you bought it then that is what they consider when pricing it for sale to you. I watched one Strat in particular fall in price without ever having been sold or even moved from that spot on the wall. This was when the Canadian Dollar was climbing and eventually eclipsed the American greenback.


The price of that guitar just fell month by month and now it's back on the rise.


It's the same with gasoline. The filling station doesn't wait until they've sold all the gas in their tanks before changing the price per litre. It's actually the same with almost everything.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2008)

suttree said:


> with L&M, the trick is to carefully look te guitar over from front to back, and have them devalue the guitar for you based on the bumps and scratches that are almost inevitably on the guitar, since L&M doesn't generally much watch over people playing $2000 guitars, for some reason (or they've rented the guitar out to someone for a few weeks, and still don't call the instrument used). that's how you get the guitar for cheaper, IME.


+1. And if they won't move on the price go for free accessories. A better case, straps, picks, sets of strings, a nice cable, some books -- low dollar value stuff. And don't be afraid to walk away. They need to know you don't want it that bad. It's all part of the game. :smile:


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

While this may not be directly related to the OP, I had an interesting experience around this recently. I was at a local music store (_not_ L & M) looking at the Squier Vibes and happened to overhear the store manager's phone conversation with someone at another store. In any case, the manager quoted the list price on an unsold Gibson LP Standard and then casually remarked "so your cost would be around $1100". 

This may not be typical but I think it provides some indication of how much room a store actually _could_ move on the price. That being said, they'd never sell to you or me at such a discount because everyone would be demanding that same price.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

perhaps buddy was trading in some gear towards that LP?

without all the facts, there's a few ways that that price could have been reached


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

StevieMac said:


> While this may not be directly related to the OP, I had an interesting experience around this recently. I was at a local music store (_not_ L & M) looking at the Squier Vibes and happened to overhear the store manager's phone conversation with someone at another store. In any case, the manager quoted the list price on an unsold Gibson LP Standard and then casually remarked "so your cost would be around $1100".
> 
> This may not be typical but I think it provides some indication of how much room a store actually _could_ move on the price. That being said, they'd never sell to you or me at such a discount because everyone would be demanding that same price.


Trust me..you misunderstood. stores about 15$ margin on the price the most of the time advertise. So for exemple, a LP's retail price is around 3200$, price it's actually advertised in stores, 2650$ and cost will run around 2200 to 2300$. sometimes a wee bit less if they have more discount by ordering in batch on 10 guitares or so.


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

al3d said:


> Trust me..you misunderstood. stores about 15$ margin on the price the most of the time advertise. So for exemple, a LP's retail price is around 3200$, price it's actually advertised in stores, 2650$ and cost will run around 2200 to 2300$. sometimes a wee bit less if they have more discount by ordering in batch on 10 guitares or so.



As a former Employee of both Long and McQuade and Mother's Music I can assure you that your numbers are not as accurate as you may think.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Budda said:


> without all the facts, there's a few ways that that price could have been reached


Fair enough. If I (over)heard correctly, the particular LP being discussed was a Standard "Faded" that had been in the back for awhile. Earlier this year, these could be had for around $1400 so that may account for the price mentioned. Still, it indicates there'd be _some_ room to move.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Archer said:


> As a former Employee of both Long and McQuade and Mother's Music I can assure you that your numbers are not as accurate as you may think.


i'm giving them as an exemple..not true exacte prices. i work for years in music stores myself mate.


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

Let's take the Fender American Standard Telecaster.

U.S. list price is $1,399.99, street price is $999.99. 

I always thought the dealer cost was 50% of list, am I wrong?


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

rhh7 said:


> Let's take the Fender American Standard Telecaster.
> 
> U.S. list price is $1,399.99, street price is $999.99.
> 
> I always thought the dealer cost was 50% of list, am I wrong?


50% is a bit much. unless things have change drasticly.


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

Archer said:


> As a former Employee of both Long and McQuade and Mother's Music I can assure you that your numbers are not as accurate as you may think.



generally speaking, in canada, mar_kup_ (as opposed to margin) is in the 30% range on anything of a capital nature (not accessories). let's take fender. cost is indeed 50% of american list (for THEM, not for all brands... this is something set up by the manufacturer). plus shipping. plus brokerage. plus any after-care your store promises (setups, generally). so, if the guitar is $1000 list, it's $500 US cost, plus say 10% brokerage (usually less, but that's a safe number)so $550, plus maybe $50 in shipping, so $600 US. according to XE.com, that's about $750 canadian, for a guitar they're currently selling for $999 (although that price will certainly climb in the new year, to $1050 or so). out of this, the retailer has to pay for staff, the store, the bank financing costs if they're a smaller independant, and of course business insurance on these high-dollar, high-profile valuables. 

so, yes they have room to move. but not as much as you might think, of course they're not in business to lose money. most small retailers get far too attached to their inventories, though.. and will lose thousands of dollars in housing a guitar taking up room in their store, instead of cutting their losses.. that's in my experience at least. 

L&M is unusual in terms of gibson, because they're also the distributor, but that department is separate from the retail division, and makes money on its own. the reason L&M is killing the mom & pop stores in canada, is because they're heavily profitable in yorkville and gibson, and especially in financing.. it all adds up to a huge cash flow, which allows them to run their retail stores at a much lower profit margin than most others can afford to do. they've made this a very competetive market, to say the least. not bad considering 3 out of 5 of their employees would have a hard time stringing a guitar, at a guess. 

this is all information i probably shouldn't tell the world, haha.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I do not like haggling. I will do it, but it is about enjoyable as getting teeth drilled. I would rather just walk away.


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## Dabluz (Oct 9, 2008)

Haggling is a must. If you spend 5 minutes and get a 20 dollar discount that means that you have just been paid 240 dollars per hour. Don't haggle with one of the underlings....they don't give a hoot if you buy the guitar or not and don't care if you come back again or not. Ask to talk to someone who is in charge. If it's the owner.....that's even better. That person will want to sell the guitar for a lower margin of profit than not sell anything. There is always the idea that a satisfied customer will be a repeat customer.


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2008)

By all means, get a deal. That means if you can get the seller to knock of $50.00 or one of the taxes you do it. I don't haggle over $300 items but if I'm spending $1000, I've always tried to get a little something. Start off by asking what his or her absolute best price on the item could be. If the merchant says "that's it right there", move on. He has to be taught the rules. If you give in, your training him all wrong. If he moves a bit. your ahead of the game. BTW, don't buy anything till after Christmas unless its a true blue fire sale. If you have money, the deals are going to be plenty in the months ahead. You can hear me circling high above.lofu


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

I have never bought a guitar at Long and McQuade because they don't have stores here, for some reason. But I bought a Gibson Les Paul Standard two weeks ago from a Montreal dealer and managed to get a price lower than advertised. 

I go to most music stores in Montreal, Quebec and Ottawa on a regular basis. They've seen me around and know me. Most of the time, I don't even try anything. If I ask for their best price on something after I've tried it, they know I'm a serious buyer and usually they'll give me a good price. There's always some wiggle room, but if you're the type who always haggles and never buys anything, they'll see you coming. It's a question of credibility.


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

suttree said:


> generally speaking, in canada, mar_kup_ (as opposed to margin) is in the 30% range on anything of a capital nature (not accessories). let's take fender. cost is indeed 50% of american list (for THEM, not for all brands... this is something set up by the manufacturer). plus shipping. plus brokerage. plus any after-care your store promises (setups, generally). so, if the guitar is $1000 list, it's $500 US cost, plus say 10% brokerage (usually less, but that's a safe number)so $550, plus maybe $50 in shipping, so $600 US. according to XE.com, that's about $750 canadian, for a guitar they're currently selling for $999 (although that price will certainly climb in the new year, to $1050 or so). out of this, the retailer has to pay for staff, the store, the bank financing costs if they're a smaller independant, and of course business insurance on these high-dollar, high-profile valuables.
> 
> so, yes they have room to move. but not as much as you might think, of course they're not in business to lose money. most small retailers get far too attached to their inventories, though.. and will lose thousands of dollars in housing a guitar taking up room in their store, instead of cutting their losses.. that's in my experience at least.
> 
> ...


L&M also runs their own credit department and gives credit to anyone with a pulse. A little hint folks....their collectors arent licensed. You don't have to say anything if they call you. Also, if they call someone other than you and let anything slip to anyone you can SUE THE HELL out of them and the store. Unless they are chasing you over a rental you have the advantage on them even if you are a worthless piece of crap clown that doesn't pay his/her bills. I am not stating this so that you can get out of paying your bills and you can still be sued by L&M as soon as you miss a payment...they are just limited in what they can do to legally force payments outside of litigation. 

Suttree is correct in his evaluation of the employees. The Calgary store has/had 5 good guitar employees.....3 left within a month of one another earlier this year, one is part time and the other works in acoustic guitars. The best guitar guy in that store is now John and he works in P.A. The rest of that guitar staff are terrible. Example: there is some grey haired 50 year old guy in there now that told me Mahogany and Alder sound the same.


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## twoonie2 (Jan 19, 2008)

I shop compare certain models that I'm interested in.. (visit my local stores a few times as well ).. 

Then I show up to my shop of choice with cash in my pocket (usually within the vicinity of the cheapest i've found - which is usually not my local shop) and say.. "well I really want to buy this guitar.. but I only have $$$ so much cash on me.." usually they pull out the calculator and within a few mins.. the answer is usually .. "yeah I can do it for that price".. this works about 95% of the time for me.. 

Did it about two days ago actually.. and it worked like a charm!

Cash is king!

:rockon2:


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

absolutely


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

When buying a new guitar I try to get a free set of strings.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Archer said:


> Suttree is correct in his evaluation of the employees. The Calgary store has/had 5 good guitar employees.....3 left within a month of one another earlier this year, one is part time and the other works in acoustic guitars. The best guitar guy in that store is now John and he works in P.A. The rest of that guitar staff are terrible. Example: there is some grey haired 50 year old guy in there now that told me Mahogany and Alder sound the same.


I was in L&M at the Burlington, Ontario location for my weekly visit on a break from the office. Lately I've been going there to play through a Dr Z Carmen Ghia head they have in stock. I'll probably be ordering the combo version in the new year. As I was standing there in the amps department there was a sales guy pulling a Dr Z RXes out of the box that had arrived and an older gentleman standing there asking questions about the Dr Z line. As I am quite enamored/obsessed with Dr Z's I knew the answer to all his questions. Stuff like wattage, What preamp tubes and other spec questions. Every time the guy asked a question that sales guy would lean over to look at the price tag. Like thats gonna tell him anything but the price. I don't know if sales guys like this or not but I answered all his questions and even helped him drag a Z cabinet and the head in to the guitar room to try out. The sales guy seemed not to care I was doing his job as I don't think he had a clue about the amps anyway. He was the guitar guy and since L&M seemed to be getting quite heavy in to stocking Dr Z they should at least know something about them.
As far as whether they have the right to come after you legally for default payments, I think anyone should have the right if you owe them. I've been dealing with L&M and have had an account with them for 25 years. I've never been late on a payment but I've seen many musicians stiff them.


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I was in L&M at the Burlington, Ontario location for my weekly visit on a break from the office. Lately I've been going there to play through a Dr Z Carmen Ghia head they have in stock. I'll probably be ordering the combo version in the new year. As I was standing there in the amps department there was a sales guy pulling a Dr Z RXes out of the box that had arrived and an older gentleman standing there asking questions about the Dr Z line. As I am quite enamored/obsessed with Dr Z's I knew the answer to all his questions. Stuff like wattage, What preamp tubes and other spec questions. Every time the guy asked a question that sales guy would lean over to look at the price tag. Like thats gonna tell him anything but the price. I don't know if sales guys like this or not but I answered all his questions and even helped him drag a Z cabinet and the head in to the guitar room to try out. The sales guy seemed not to care I was doing his job as I don't think he had a clue about the amps anyway. He was the guitar guy and since L&M seemed to be getting quite heavy in to stocking Dr Z they should at least know something about them.
> As far as whether they have the right to come after you legally for default payments, I think anyone should have the right if you owe them. I've been dealing with L&M and have had an account with them for 25 years. I've never been late on a payment but I've seen many musicians stiff them.


THey have the right to come after you legally, but their collectors and tracers are working without license. In Alberta the collectors are leaving themselves open to HUGE fines. Hopefully that has changed cause I know many great people working in those departments....I'd hate to see a 50K fine put on one of them. In alberta the fines can be up to 100K and can come along with up to 2 years in jail. 

I saw many people burn L&M back when I worked there. Jack Long's philosophy is simple "Most people wont burn me so I'll give everyone a shot" sounds good on paper but if it werent for the huge market share he has he would be in deep doo doo.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

I work in three different music stores right now and each has a different policy on haggling but there is one tip that will help in each of them. Be nice. Be polite and friendly when you ask for that deal. If you are the arrogant dickhead who says "I spend more here than you make in a year" and then I check the computer and see that you've spend $1200 there in the last 3 years then you're probably not going to get a deal. If you are the regular customer who always says hi, smiles, and tells me when you have a gig nearby, then I'll ask the manager about a deal for you and you won't even have to bring it up. And yes, both of those examples are people I've dealt with recently.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

kat_ said:


> I work in three different music stores right now and each has a different policy on haggling but there is one tip that will help in each of them. Be nice. Be polite and friendly when you ask for that deal. If you are the arrogant dickhead who says "I spend more here than you make in a year" and then I check the computer and see that you've spend $1200 there in the last 3 years then you're probably not going to get a deal. If you are the regular customer who always says hi, smiles, and tells me when you have a gig nearby, then I'll ask the manager about a deal for you and you won't even have to bring it up. And yes, both of those examples are people I've dealt with recently.



I'm the guy that smiles tries to get a bit off then buys it anyway. I'm such a compulsive shopper I've already decided to buy it and would buy it even if they raised the price.


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## Canadian Charlie (Apr 30, 2008)

I bought my last 2 guitars new from Germany so there is no haggling there. I looked locally but they were more than what I seen at Thomann in Germany and even when they offered a better price I was still better off getting from Germany

:smilie_flagge17:


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Canadian Charlie said:


> I bought my last 2 guitars new from Germany so there is no haggling there. I looked locally but they were more than what I seen at Thomann in Germany and even when they offered a better price I was still better off getting from Germany
> 
> :smilie_flagge17:


Is this no haggling thing cultural ???


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

robert1950 said:


> is this no haggling thing cultural ???



absolutely


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

Paul said:


> We just didn't know what mic we'd end up with. (Neumann KMS 105, for those keeping score at home.)


man, i could have told you that without knowing the identity of the other 11 mics. that thing is unreal. LOVE them. LOVE. sooo much money though. for those keeping score, the sennheiser e965 is almost the same mic, for about half the price).


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## antimage27 (Mar 16, 2008)

i tried to haggle at L&M ...they said they dont get commission so all prices are fixed
..i still think theyre able to change it but they just dont want to

thats an excuse they use often


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

salv said:


> What bothers me are these stores that raise prices on current stock.


I find that with L&M. 

When the Canadian dollar was gaining against the US, the prices in their stores* s l o w l y* came down. 

Now that the Canadian dollar has dropped again, and while it was dropping, the prices have shot back up immediately. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if they checked the way the currency closed during a day on the markets and changed the prices when they closed the doors for business that day.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

I've always thought L&Ms prices were quite fair.

I was in there yesterday, was looking at the Historic singlecut Special. Asked the price, I think she said $2575 (the tag was missing).
I checked GC and MF sites, looks like Gibson's retail is about $3500US, those stores sell them for $2499US. Right now L&Ms price looks like a really good deal.


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## happydude (Oct 15, 2007)

When I bought my first guitar and amp I got a few free picks! Hah, take that establishment!


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I thought I might update my own thread with some info that hopefully other users find of value.

After hockey I went by the L&M last night where I saw the guitar that first inspired me to start this thread.
It wasnt on the rack where it used to be, so i bought a strap for my Grretsch and was headed out before I saw it in a completely different place. It was marked down on clearance by about $250. So i asked a staff person there (someone who looked to me to be maybe a little more senior than some of the others) if there was any more room to move on the price. He was working with a customer and said he'd let me know in a few mins. After a long while I asked him if he had any news on it. He asked me if I was willing to buy it today. I said that was a definite option. he Looked it up on the screen, hemmed and hawed a little....and then asked me to make an offer. I stated a reasonable one IMO, albeit about $250 less than the last price. He said it was only a few bucks more than his cost, then countered at $100 more. I paused. Sometimes saying nothing is the most effective tool in negotiation.
He admitted that it had been sitting in their inventory for awhile, so he knocked off $50. So it ended up being $50 over my offer ($575 less than orig price). I said, what about a case? He said ok. I said "deal". We did the paperwork, ran the Visa and away I went!

So here's my tips:
1) You're gonna have a better chance haggling on something thats been around awhile, vs. the latest and greatest, so keep that in mind.

2)Be prepared to make a deal on the spot, so that a) you arent wasting the sales reps time, and b) you arent simply haggling for the next guy who comes in tomorrow and buys it at that price while you're thinking about it, or trying to come up with the funds.

3) Have a fair offer in mind as a starting point. I dont recommend silly lowballs, as it doesnt motivate the sales person to treat the negotiation seriously.

4) Talk to someone who seems like they might have some influence, or decision making capacity.

5) I didnt do this, but it may be a good idea to offer to pay via cash or interac, as it saves the retailer a few % that they may be able to pass on to you or at least soften the blow in overhead to them.

6) Thank the sales guy and get his business card, so that next time you're lookign for a deal, you'll know who to go to, and perhaps save some time or have an easier time getting the "preferred customer discount".

Happy hunting!


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Good deal Diablo..what is it exactly you bought?...as for negotiations, a good saleman will know withing 2 sec if you're just fooling around or actually a buying customer.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Diablo said:


> 3) Have a fair offer in mind as a starting point. I dont recommend silly lowballs, as it doesnt motivate the sales person to treat the negotiation seriously.


Everyone has a different idea of fair. I would have thought that an offer of $250 below a guitar already discounted at $250 was a silly low ball offer. But you have proven that may be there are no silly low ball offers.
I was happy to get my CS Nocaster at the original price. It had been there for almost a year and I had considered it several times. It originally came in when Canadian money was at US par. They jacked it up with dollar. When I did decide to buy it I complained about the price hike. They then knocked off a few hundred. I guess I should have tried to get it cheaper. The funny thing is coupled with the Canadian dollar and the Fender price hike the same guitar now costs $4.400. About $1,600 more than what I paid.


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## Firebreak (Feb 17, 2009)

I'm new to guitars and have only bought 1 so far, so I'm speaking more generally about haggling. I do my research beforehand and know what prices are right and what are not. If I see something over priced, then that store simply loses my business. I should not have to haggle to get a fair price, and so I don't.

Chris


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> Everyone has a different idea of fair. I would have thought that an offer of $250 below a guitar already discounted at $250 was a silly low ball offer. But you have proven that may be there are no silly low ball offers.
> I was happy to get my CS Nocaster at the original price. It had been there for almost a year and I had considered it several times. It originally came in when Canadian money was at US par. They jacked it up with dollar. When I did decide to buy it I complained about the price hike. They then knocked off a few hundred. I guess I should have tried to get it cheaper. The funny thing is coupled with the Canadian dollar and the Fender price hike the same guitar now costs $4.400. About $1,600 more than what I paid.


Thats a good point, and its all relative. Knocking $250 off a $400. guitar is prob within the realm of a lowball. $250 off a $2000. guitar (as was the case here), pretty realistic IMO. Or at least not offensive


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## Luke98 (Mar 4, 2007)

I got $200 american off my Acoustic and a case thrown in at Guitar Center, but haggling for a friend of mines bass amp wasn't an option. But it was New stock and was already a pretty good price...

I bought one of Shoretyus's Tele's, and loved it so much I didn't haggle a dime, which is different of me, as I always haggle.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

al3d said:


> Good deal Diablo..what is it exactly you bought?...as for negotiations, a good saleman will know withing 2 sec if you're just fooling around or actually a buying customer.


Charvel San Dimas 2H Copper Snakeskin. I'm a sucker for '80's shredder style guitars  Pic doesnt really do it justice....looks almost like camo there. The neck on Charvel SD's just feels perfect to me...Just like my 80's Lado. Other shredders like Jackson's, Ibanez RG's etc. dont even come close for my hands. I like how some Tele's feel though! Next on my list 
Only thing wrong with it is the fretboard looks dry, and it was missing the toggle switch knob. 
Why does it seem that every guitar has a different size toggle switch knob?


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## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

Find the guitar you want...Say it is $2000 + tax. Walk in there with $1700-$1800 cash in an envelope. Tell them you really want that guitar, but "all I have is this wad of cash in this envelope.." If they won't budge on the price, say "Ok, thanks. See ya later." and head towards the door. They'd be stupid to not stop you and accept the offer, especially in times like these.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

*Haggle or not to?*

I am not much on haggling.I usually know what I want and how much I want to spend.Now as far as L+M here in Ottawa,not a fan.Everytime I go in there to shop or buy I always get a jerk of a salesman who cant give me the time of day.
Several times I have asked for info and i get the feeling i am being ignored.This really pis,,,,,, me off as I am not your regular killin time shopper at lunch hour type.So I dont shop there and i mostly buy used and I get great service at Spaceman.Like I said if it is fairly marked I will ask if they can discount but I wont play games.Now its not all bad there is one guy at L+M,i think he is the manager that treated me with respect when i bought my used Blues JR.last year.He gave me a great deal and service.:smilie_flagge17:


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

marcos said:


> I am not much on haggling.I usually know what I want and how much I want to spend.Now as far as L+M here in Ottawa,not a fan.Everytime I go in there to shop or buy I always get a jerk of a salesman who cant give me the time of day.
> Several times I have asked for info and i get the feeling i am being ignored.This really pis,,,,,, me off as I am not your regular killin time shopper at lunch hour type.So I dont shop there and i mostly buy used and I get great service at Spaceman.Like I said if it is fairly marked I will ask if they can discount but I wont play games.Now its not all bad there is one guy at L+M,i think he is the manager that treated me with respect when i bought my used Blues JR.last year.He gave me a great deal and service.:smilie_flagge17:


I sometimes think L&M have the same problem as my local Home Depot when it comes to sales....they dont have their priorities right. It seems in both cases, they are often more interested in stocking shelves, or other "chores" than dealing with customers. Even when I was buying the guitar above, I found I had to stay within eye contact with the sales guy as he at times seemed "distracted" by the box full of new gig bags he was unwrapping and putting out . A less patient or motivated customer would have walked out having grown tired of waiting for responses.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

*Haggle or not*

You did well to be patient Diablo,in your case you did good,but i just think it shows a lack of respect when they do this.Maybe I have been unlucky but you know what,in the long run I am the customer and expect better service.I am not saying they should lick your boots but a little interrest in what you are doing goes a long way.I am not bashing L+M but stating a fact that they need to start training these guys off the street towards being better salesman.Maybe if they were on commision that would help a bit.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

Maybe, but on the flip side of that, some commission guys don't give you any space and their very aggression and anxiety to make a sale can be a big turn-off. I want to be given all the time I need to bond with a guitar in a shop and I want the salesperson to be friendly and knowledgeable, but I sure don't need them breathing down my neck and chattering away into my ear while I'm actually trying to listen to how the guitar sounds and trying to get an angle on its overall feel.

Good salespeople already know this stuff, of course.

Diablo, good on you for your excellent negotiations. Have fun with the new axe.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...you can negotiate at most stores, but haggling with a salesdrone at long & mcquade is a bit like arguing with a drunk.

you might as well try and negiotiate the price of a quadruple quadruple at timmies, or a pair of plastic flip flops at wal-mart.

-dh


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## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

david henman said:


> you might as well try and negiotiate the price of a quadruple quadruple at timmies, or a pair of plastic flip flops at wal-mart.
> 
> -dh


LOL Wouldn't surprise me if that's happened before!


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Samsquantch said:


> LOL Wouldn't surprise me if that's happened before!


...never considered that, but i have feeling you're right.

-dh


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## Alien8 (Jan 8, 2009)

I'm a strategist when it comes to deals... I visit stores regularly, and know my prices when I'm looking to spend money. I know what is worth it and what isn't. I've paid retail for 2 in 10 items because I couldn't get them somewhere I regularly go. In those cases I went to L & M.

As Kat says, be a regular, friendly person who the store clerks don't mind having around, and who they feel they can approach for advice even.

Knowing a realistic price is also a good thing... 

I have a regular store that offers me 10% right off the top for popular items over $100... usually I end up in the 17-20% savings on prices that are a few percent below "retail". 

If I go to a new store I haggle, always ask for a better price, and if they don't offer it, I usually leave. I will go back - if I haven't already bought it cheaper - on a saturday, right before closing. My best deals are always when they have had a busy day, and are in a good mood because they get to go home. People always seem to give better deals when they are in a good mood. I don't show up at 4:55 either, usually about 4:25... if they close at 5 say...

I've gotten deals at L&M too, it's not hard, call them on being arrogant pricks in front of a manager and you'll have the key to the store.


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## Orcslayer (Feb 2, 2009)

I find L&M won't haggle unless you have trade where there's some room to move (for instance if the trade is a guitar they carry & is in excellent shape).

In my experience you can haggle some at Steve's Music in Toronto or L.A. Music in Port Credit & even the 12th Fret in Toronto.


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## bryguy9 (Jul 13, 2007)

I normally buy used if I can. And I am culturally :smilie_flagge17: and not much of a haggler. 

But last time I bought a guitar from a store, I was there for the afternoon and took a wingman. I played every similar guitar in the place. Went to two other stores. I came back to the first store and the one that stood out. I played it again. 

Then I just asked the sales guy what he could do for me.

I had gone away and thought about it, so I knew it was what I wanted. I came back so he knew it was what I wanted. It was showroom material, so it was new but played. He took $300 off. He made a sale, I made a deal without too much teeth pulling, and we both know I'll be back to that store.

I think that is salesmanship in Canada.

B


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

No need to haggle if the price is right... if the price is not then let the haggling begin... or walk away.

Right now in this economic downturn it's a good time for haggling... prices are up and sales are down... 

12 - 18 months ago was a great time for buying... ppl were not concerned as much about the economy, they were making $$$, and the dollar was strong... good time to buy gear.

I just purchased a guitar and yeah the price was higher than several months ago... about 3% but the seller was hungry to sell. I got a fantastic price.

I just sold a guitar last week... I placed an add and within one week the guitar was sold. My asking was $1450 obo. The first reply on the add and offer from that prospect buyer was $1100 which I flat out refused. He countered with $1150 and I said thanks but not thanks and told him my target was much higher. After a few tosses back and forth I got $1350 my target $$$. Some factors involved were... I did not "need" to sell the guitar and therefore I was not in any hurry. The purchaser brought an experinced friend who, I'm sure advised him on how to dicker a price, the friend admitted the guitar was fairly priced to begin. New it was over $2000 but I paid $1100 last March for it. IMHO I bought it at a good time and sold it at the right time.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Archer said:


> L&M won't really haggle. They guarantee the lowest price on items in the store. If a piece has been in the store for a long time then you may have some leverage but even they dont give a lot off.


Their price "guarantee" is meaningless. Example: In January, I was shopping for a Fender Highway 1 Strat. I had my eye on one at St John's Music at $829. I called L&M and asked them what their price was on a new Hwy 1 Strat - comes back and says $850!

Anyway, some people here have been saying they shouldn't have to haggle, regular price is the price, etc. What I want to point out is that you don't have to look at it as entering negotiations, it can be as simple as just asking: "So, is that the best price we can do here?" Case in point - my above example with the Strat. When I went back to St. John's to do the deal, as the sales guy was writing up the paperwork I asked, "I might be pushing my luck here, but is that the best price possible?" (this was just before the Feb 1 price hike). He simply said, "Give me a minute, and I'll check." About 5 minutes later he says "$799 ok?" Deal! So by me asking one simple question I was able to save $30. There's nothing wrong with asking. The worst they can do is say no.


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## valriver40 (Oct 22, 2007)

i also get excellent deals at st johns music. i have spent a couple of grand over the years at thier store. no deals or discounts at at the 3 or 4 other music stores, but i do get excellent and friendly service!, which has not stopped me from also spending loads of money. asking for a deal is free and in most cases saves you money.


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## BrianA (Mar 1, 2009)

salv said:


> What bothers me are these stores that raise prices on current stock.


I hear you but if you think of it this way, it makes good sense... their inventory is an investment. If you bought a house, or a lump of gold and it's value went up because of the prevailing market conditions, you expect to be able to sell it for what it's worth, not what you paid for it. And it cuts both ways... they take the risk of holding the inventory. If the value drops, they're going to take the hit.

Here's my most recent 'haggle' story. I purchased a Gibson ES-339 from a large Port Credit store (name and address withheld :smile for what I felt was a great price on a new and fairly 'hot' guitar. First, I did my homework as to the what a great (but not ridiculous) price was. I provided a web link to the salesman so he could verify that my price could be had (somewhere). I had my offer price in cash in my pocket, which I showed the salesman and indicated that I was prepared to deal now and that my offer was firm and final (which is was - I was mentally prepared to walk if I didn't get it). The store owner was brought in, and after much drama, the deal was closed as per my original offer.


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## Kestral (Apr 19, 2007)

I worked for a company that worked with L&M and made friends with the staff and even then they wouldn't haggle even a penny on brand new stuff.

The only exception was if something's used and has been sitting there for a long time. Their used items have insane markups (I believe they buy from the person at half the value and then mark it up 100% to the full value) so there's a lot of room there.

The other "exception" is L&M have a price matching policy:
http://www.long-mcquade.com/?page=content&PageID=6


> *30 Day Price Guarantee*
> Long & McQuade will match the verified price of any in-stock product from any retailer in Canada, both at the time of purchase and up to 30 days after purchase.


The only time I bought a brand new guitar there I waited for the 6 month 0% interest to take the sting off of it, but when I sold the guitar I took a bath. That's the last time I'll ever buy a guitar brand new.


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## Chocobo (Aug 20, 2010)

Hi guys, this is my first post. 
I'm sorry to bring this ancient thread up again, but when we make an offer, do we see it as *with tax* or *without tax* ?
Let's say, this guitar is 580 CAD + Tax. Should I make an offer of 550 (already tax) + Case + Straplocks, or 500 + tax + Case + Straplocks?
Thanks.


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## Guitar-n00b (Jul 17, 2010)

I got confused


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

Chocobo said:


> Hi guys, this is my first post.
> I'm sorry to bring this ancient thread up again, but when we make an offer, do we see it as *with tax* or *without tax* ?
> Let's say, this guitar is 580 CAD + Tax. Should I make an offer of 550 (already tax) + Case + Straplocks, or 500 + tax + Case + Straplocks?
> Thanks.


Offer what you'd like to pay pre-tax. It saves me from needing to do the math when you pay. Sure, the math isn't that hard but if it's a busy day I appreciate anything that make me go faster.


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## Chocobo (Aug 20, 2010)

kat_ said:


> Offer what you'd like to pay pre-tax. It saves me from needing to do the math when you pay. Sure, the math isn't that hard but if it's a busy day I appreciate anything that make me go faster.


Thanks kat. One more thing, is my offer of:

Epiphone LP Standard Plus + Hard case + MG15

=> 600 CAD 

...reasonable ?

If they give something near that i would ask them to throw in strap locks and cable.


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## Schectertastic (Jul 12, 2010)

Chocobo said:


> Thanks kat. One more thing, is my offer of:
> 
> Epiphone LP Standard Plus + Hard case + MG15
> 
> ...


If you're buying all that for 600 CDN flat, you're basically getting the guitar at it's standard price. Standard non-flame tops are between $499.99 and $519.99, and the plus tops are $649.99-$679.99 (plus tax!!). A case is about $69-$89, the amp is about $99-$119 and straplocks (schallers anyways) would be $16-$30...add that up and you're around $900 with tax...why should the store lose about $300 to close a sale on something they can easily sell to the next guy at a fair price? you're almost asking for the used one in that situation, and the store ends up with no money to pay their staff/lighting/heating/rent etc...


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## Chocobo (Aug 20, 2010)

ok, so that doesn't work.

thanks )


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Schectertastic said:


> If you're buying all that for 600 CDN flat, you're basically getting the guitar at it's standard price. Standard non-flame tops are between $499.99 and $519.99, and the plus tops are $649.99-$679.99 (plus tax!!). A case is about $69-$89, the amp is about $99-$119 and straplocks (schallers anyways) would be $16-$30...add that up and you're around $900 with tax...why should the store lose about $300 to close a sale on something they can easily sell to the next guy at a fair price? you're almost asking for the used one in that situation, and the store ends up with no money to pay their staff/lighting/heating/rent etc...


Yeah, you have to consider that they large stores sell a LOT of volume. And a good chunk is the stuff you're looking at. I know a few people at the L&M on Bloor and I'm there often, so I see and hear a lot about their sales. They're not starving for cash and there's no sense selling for less than their sticker price. If you won't pay it, the next guy will. If you're on a limited budget, you really need to re-consider what you're looking for (standard top instead of plus, maybe?) or go used.


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## Schectertastic (Jul 12, 2010)

Chocobo said:


> ok, so that doesn't work.
> 
> thanks )


Basically an offer like that would get you ignored...don't be a lowballing dick about it and they will probably give you SOMETHING small. Sometimes it's just a pack of strings and maybe 10% off the case or something, but at least it's something right?


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## Chocobo (Aug 20, 2010)

Schectertastic said:


> Basically an offer like that would get you ignored...don't be a lowballing dick about it and they will probably give you SOMETHING small. Sometimes it's just a pack of strings and maybe 10% off the case or something, but at least it's something right?


thanks for the advice, i really lack experience about this


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## Schectertastic (Jul 12, 2010)

There's less markup than you'd think on a lot of the items...in Canada a lot of stores have to deal with "distributors" who are essentially a middle man who takes a cut of what should be a higher profit margin, and in order to actually "legally" carry the products in Canada, they have to order from a registered distributor. Some companies like Fender or Mesa Boogie are still direct, but they also have fairly set pricing rules...but Fender accessories come from some big warehouse company in Missisauga, and they take MONTHS to come in. I had a buddy have to wait almost 1 year for a set of Fender vintage noiseless pickups for his tele and it didn't matter what shop he went to in the city, no one had it in stock and they all told him "it's back ordered" and couldn't give an ETA, he put a deposit at one shop and they even showed him the packing slip "ordered July 18, 2009" and "shipping date July 21, 2010". Really sucks and sometimes you've gotta feel bad for stores that actually want to help fellow musicians rock out since some companies freely ship across the border and have tons of stock ready because they stockpiled an item that the Canadian distributor did not. At any rate the reason the prices seem higher is for the stores to make a comfortable amount to pay staff/overhead/rent etc to have a physical store, they also have to pay 10%-25% on top of their cost to the distributor for the "privilege" of carrying a certain product or item into Canada....seems like such a scam to run a business that way, but the whole music industry in Canada seems infested by these huge distributors.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

Chocobo said:


> thanks for the advice, i really lack experience about this


Guitars don't have nearly as big of a markup as most people assume. Strings, accessories, cables, books, and cases have a little more room to move. A question like "While I'm buying this guitar can you give me a bit of a deal on a cable and a couple of books?" will often get a better response.


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## Ramblez (Jul 14, 2009)

The guys at the local L&McQ don't know how to play the game, so I don't deal with them. I've either gone state-side or make the trip to TGS. It's tough to deal with L&McQ unless you deal directly with the manager, otherwise it's a waste of time, and brain power (mostly on their part).


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## Spikezone (Feb 2, 2006)

Well, I just bought a Seagull Coastline Grand at Axe in Edmonton. It was about $12 cheaper than I saw it in Vancouver and just as nice to play, and the sales guy restrung it so I could get a feel for the sound when it is fresh. I didn't haggle, because I was saving the HST, and since I was flying, they are shipping it out to the coast for free (should be here early this week, I hope). That was a good enough deal for me. Can't wait to get it!
-Mikey


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## Chocobo (Aug 20, 2010)

Spikezone said:


> Well, I just bought a Seagull Coastline Grand at Axe in Edmonton. It was about $12 cheaper than I saw it in Vancouver and just as nice to play, and the sales guy restrung it so I could get a feel for the sound when it is fresh. I didn't haggle, because I was saving the HST, and since I was flying, they are shipping it out to the coast for free (should be here early this week, I hope). That was a good enough deal for me. Can't wait to get it!
> -Mikey


Grats, nice deal !


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## seankim228 (Dec 22, 2009)

Sorry to revive an old thread but I wanted to see your opinions of the "experts" so I'm asking here..

I'm thinking of purchasing a Gibson Les Paul Traditional Faded for $1599 using their 0% financing option..My understanding is that these are pretty rare and limited run (only a few left in GTA apparently)..Would I have any luck in haggling ? How much should I expect ? 

Thanks a lot for the insight guys.


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## ThePass (Aug 10, 2007)

waynekp said:


> I'm kinda the same way. I do my research on something before hand, so I understand what a good price is. Then when I see something that fits my idea of a good price, I buy it and don't bother haggling. IMO there's no point in haggling if I already think I'm getting a good deal.


This is just what I do. I "google" the item for weeks before pulling the trigger. Swamp ash, M. Friend, Sweetwater.....all the sites, all the prices. Even kept checking L&M site's for prices, too.

So at least I pretty much don't feel getting ripped off anyway. I'm happy with that.


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## ThePass (Aug 10, 2007)

seankim228 said:


> Sorry to revive an old thread but I wanted to see your opinions of the "experts" so I'm asking here..
> 
> I'm thinking of purchasing a Gibson Les Paul Traditional Faded for $1599 using their 0% financing option..My understanding is that these are pretty rare and limited run (only a few left in GTA apparently)..Would I have any luck in haggling ? How much should I expect ?
> 
> Thanks a lot for the insight guys.



I don't think I've heard of the Traditional Faded. I'll need to google them. I thought the "faded" series were Studios


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## seankim228 (Dec 22, 2009)

Well..the situation is kinda complex because apparently this was a limited run for L&M :$


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## NGroeneveld (Jan 23, 2011)

L&M will match the lowest price you may find elsewhere


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

1599$ for a Faded?...nah....get a used Standard or Traditionel and that's what you'll pay and get a LOT better resell value if you decided to keep it.


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