# Jumbo or Parlor



## Guest (Jan 2, 2010)

_I have a Norman B18 and a Seagull 12 String. If given the choice to purchase another guitar would you rather purchase a Jumbo (Seagull Mini-Jumbo) or a Parlor?_

_I am simply looking for a different sound. I simply strum tunes, I suck, but I have fun playing songs._

_I am leaning towards Jumbo just for the extra volume._

_I'd love some feedback._

_And of course the guitar will be Canadian made._


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

depends on your personal leanings-
what sound do you want to make?
i dont like jumbos or dreadnoughts myself- as i prefer more midrange honk from an acoustic- the 00 or parlour size does this best-
but i am not you.
if you dont already own a small bodied guitar, maybe a parlour size one will be a nice sonic addition.


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

I bought a Simon & Patrick parlour guitar, I just love it. Great neck, comfortable to play, good sound even with a laminated top. I have never been able to enjoy a jumbo or dreadnought either.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

I have a parlor that is loud.


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## tunebox (Oct 26, 2009)

Hi,

I own a Taylor 815ce which is considered a jumbo model. I've played a lot of guitars (35 yrs now) and you may want to consider several aspects before you decide ... The most important is - whether you play primarily through electronics or just naturally without any microphones, etc. A jumbo can get you a bigger sound for your listeners without any microphones, or otherwise plugging in. The trade off of course is the size of the guitar (body). It is significantly larger and more cumbersome. A concert series (parlor style) is much more user friendly from a size perspective, and you can still get a nice sound out of them through a miic or plugging in, however, they simply don't have the bottom end of a jumbo for playing unplugged music. 

Another question you may ask is what type of tunings do you use? You can make a parlor size guitar sound nice if you play in open C or D, or if you simply drop your 6th down from E to D. This adds significant bass sound to an otherwise smaller frame guitar. But if you play all your work in concert E tuning then you may want at least a dreadnought style (over a smaller parlor size) which offers some deeper bass tones for unplugged music. 

I hope this helps.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

fraser said:


> depends on your personal leanings-
> what sound do you want to make?
> i dont like jumbos or dreadnoughts myself- as i prefer more midrange honk from an acoustic- the 00 or parlour size does this best-
> but i am not you.
> if you dont already own a small bodied guitar, maybe a parlour size one will be a nice sonic addition.


I agree, but I'm not either of you.
The only acoustics I have are a classical and a 12 string, so it is likely the next guitar I get will be a steel string flat top with 6 strings. I've looked at various smaller models--and the ones fraser listed are what I prefer as well, but I would be using mine for finger picking blues--including slide, and some strumming too. It may be a while from now--but nothing wrong with choosing the smaller option for your purposes, and nothing wrong with going larger as well.



rhh7 said:


> I bought a Simon & Patrick parlour guitar, I just love it. Great neck, comfortable to play, good sound even with a laminated top. I have never been able to enjoy a jumbo or dreadnought either.


I played that guitar just before rhh bought it, because he posted about it, it was the same guitar, the same store. I liked it, but I didn't buy it--I should have. There was a Martin parlour there as well with a solid top and it cost 4 times as much. The Martin was nicer, but not four times nicer. I'd say rhh got a great deal, both of those sold around the same time--and both customers got nice guitars.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

If you have a loud singing voice go for a full jumbo.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I reality, the volume difference between a good parlour and a mediocre jumbo can be marginal, and the volume from a mediocre parlour will be pathetic. Do thorough comparisons to see where your sacrifices (if any) will be made. Don't discount a folk sized guitar either, they are often the best go-between guitar. 

As for Canadian made, the best and most consistent factory guitars in my opinion are the Godin brands, but there are lots of small shop builders worth considering.

Good luck.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2010)

For Jumbo's I am considering a Seagull Entourage Mini-Jumbo so it's a bit smaller than a Super Jumbo. I'd prefer a Super Jumbo but Seagull/Norman/S & P, and Art & Luthrie don't make Super Jumbo's. So then I think how much difference in bass and volume will there be between the mini-jumbo and my dreadnaught.

Then if I buy a parlor or even a 3/4, I know I will get a totaly different sound.

I don't play for crowds, I play with friends a few times a year. I usually just strum songs sitting on the couch at home. My singing is the worst someone could hear, I do sing in the comfort of my home as my wife doesn't care as she doesn't really listen to me much anymore.

I guess I need to decide do I want a higher pitch or a lower bass sounding guitar.


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## Mike MacLeod (Nov 27, 2006)

*Guitar snob wades in.*

OK, I know I'm going to sound like a guitar snob - and I can plead guilty - but I got here honestly. 
- However, I would like to impart a little personal history.
In the late 60s when I started playing, I bought everything I could find; $200 guitars, $200 12 strings, $200 mandolins, $200 Banjos, etc. These were perfectly decent instruments (possibly equivalent to $700 in todays money - even a couple of used 60s Gibsons. And I had a lot of fun with them and developed to a certain level.
Then, my life changed in the mid 70s. Somehow, my factory 2nd Hummingbird needed a neck reset (how odd!) and the chap doing the job broke the neck and gave me his early 60s small bodied Martin in lieu. 

I was dumbstruck. I sold everything else and just played that guitar until I found another of the same quality a few years later. I never looked back. I credit that guitar for turning my life around. Seriously!

I'm not suggesting you have to buy a Martin. There are many wonderful guitars out there, especially from Canadian makers. Just don't rule out a top instrument because it seems expensive. I think in buying all of the mid-range instruments, I thought I was looking for different voices. In fact, I believe now, that I was just looking for one good voice.

Here endeth the lesson.

Let the flaming begin.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

No flame--you have to find the guitar that speaks to you.

Or the guitars.

All of mine speak to me.
I have tried expensive guitars that speak to me too, but I just don't have the cash to buy them. 

ANd some are overpriced, so that even if I had the money--I still might not buy them.

Others I would (or would have--like that Gibson 25/50 Les Paul I tried many years ago--I didn't have the money at that time, and someone else bought it before I could even come close to saving up for it. But if I'd had the cash--I'd have bought it.)


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

I enjoy Mike's posts, I have learned a lot from him. I understand and appreciate his point of view. But I am more in zontar's camp today.

I have been hanging around guitar shops since 1956. In the early 80's I bought a new Les Paul Standard, and a new Es-335, for less than $2,000.00 U.S. Sold them a year later at a loss...sigh.

But I also remember the numerous Fender and Gibson guitars that I tried back in the day, which had poor fit and finish, and would not stay in tune. I love the consistency of the cheap guitars today, which the CNC machines have provided.

I can afford to own one $1,000 guitar, or five $200 guitars. I am having a lot more fun with five cheaper guitars. YMMV.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2010)

Would one of those guitars be a Jumbo or a Parlor?


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

Yes, I bought a Simon & Patrick parlour guitar in the past few months. Got it setup by a top luthier, it plays like butter. I really enjoy it.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

i dont know that you need to spend the equivelant of the down payment of a house on a martin, but if you could im sure youd be happy lol-
ill expand on my earlier post-
bigger bodied guitars tend to have a larger range, bigger bass, sharper trebles, fuller mids. you can play anything on them.
when you get into smaller body sizes, the bass tends to be less full, and i think the mids are more pronounced. more of a "bark" as opposed to a "roar".
there are no rules anywhere regarding body size and playing. i prefer the smaller bodies because theres a bit less sustain- more of an immediate attack, then a quick die off of sound- i find bigger guitars and all that rich sustain is too overwelming, and stuff gets lost in the sound.
if i was a straight up strummer, a big guitar would likely be what i used.
but like zontar, i play lots of slide, and i play a lot of little lead runs that would get lost in the sound of a bigger guitar.
it has so much to do with playing style, comfort, and the sound you want to make that the only way to guarantee youll be satsfied is to go and play a bunch of guitars-
i just saw your in hamilton- mountain music on upper james has enough of a selection for you to be able to find out, and theyre always cool with me trying stuff out, no hassles- id go there.
if youre not into guitar stores, buy some beer and come over to my place, ive got a bunch of little guitars and one or two big ones here. nothing for sale, but it might help your decision.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

wiley said:


> *Jumbo or Parlor*


Parlor....


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

rhh7 said:


> I enjoy Mike's posts, I have learned a lot from him. I understand and appreciate his point of view.


I agree, and for some people only cheap guitars do it, for others only expensive ones do it--and not just because of the price.

I just had a conversation today about how much easier it is these days to find a good lowered price guitar than it used to be--even if you don't adjust for inflation. If you do that--then it's a whole lot better. Some of the prices I complain about today wouldn't have sounded so insane in the past if you put them in the equivalent amount of dollars for that time. Nd even though I make more money now--I have more expenses and responsibilities.

But as I age I get more respect from music store employees.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Mike MacLeod said:


> OK, I know I'm going to sound like a guitar snob - and I can plead guilty - but I got here honestly
> ............etc etc...............
> Here endeth the lesson. Let the flaming begin.


I know what you are saying. I think my life changed and the way I evaluate guitars changed when I played a bunch of Morgans. How could something be so good and I had never heard of it before? How could the notes sound so rich and chords sound so sweet? Well, I think I compared everything to Morgans after that. I did buy one and it is a great guitar - very sensitive to humidity - but a great guitar. 

I think that buying a great guitar is an incredible gift to yourself. If one happens to be extremely budget conscious and wants to spend less then so be it...there is a law of diminishing returns anyway so typically the $1400 guitar isn't $700 better than the $700 guitar (dogs aside) but there is a significant difference. 

I tend to think that the 'fun' of having 5 cheap beaters will eventually wear off but that the appreciation of having 1 great guitar only becomes deeper.

That's my 2 cents...must sound funny coming from a guy with 26 guitars!


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## Mike MacLeod (Nov 27, 2006)

*points on bigger vs. smaller guitars*

If we put my collection aside, metaphorically speaking,  and just look at the instruments I have in inventory; I can make a couple of points. 
(Incidentally, I tend not to have guitars in the under $800 range.)

1. Small guitars in the $4-6K range will show fewer differences in tonal range and complexity of tone when compared to $4-6K larger guitars.
2. Small guitars in the $1K range will yeild far greater differences in tonal range and complexity of tone when compared to $1K larger guitars.

I draw from this; it is harder to make a good small guitar than a good big guitar. When working with a limited budget, you seem to get more for your money when the company can work on a larger canvas. 

'Course there is something nice and friendly about a small guitar. - You can 'cuddle' it.  I also find that as I get older I just can't climb on board the big super-jumbo archtops (as shown in my avatar).

The other fun thing is the "hunt". Which is what we are all doing here! Even if it is just a vicarious (or even voyeuristic??) thrill.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

For 20 years I was guilty of the purchase of innumerable mid-range guitars...Giannini, Takamines, Washburns, Gibson (B-20 I think it was actually quite good), Yamaha, but I was always wanting something that those couldn't deliver. So, one day in 1994 I went guitar shopping, figuring on a Taylor, Martin, or some other factory-high-end-once-in-a-lifetime axe. At the London Guitar Shop (it was different in those days) there was a Beneteau but it sold before I could get it. Soon after there was another, but instead of buying it, figuring on some custom details, I went directly to the builder. It was and is my first call guitar, my favorite. It is a slippery slope of custom guitars as I didn't stop at one. However, if I only need one, if I can only take one, it's the one. If I die destitute, I swear it will be the last thing I ever part with, long after my dignity and self respect. Had I bought ten years sooner, I still would have got a great guitar, and spent less doing it, htough it wouldn't likely have been my last.

Though there are, relatively speaking, some very nice inexpensive guitars, and I love the Godin family of instruments, but the next notch up might be a used high end factory or small shop guitar. They tend to stay with us longer, have better resale, and please us longer overall. 

The best we can do is buy the best guitar we can. Don't settle.

Peace, Mooh.


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

smorgdonkey said:


> I tend to think that the 'fun' of having 5 cheap beaters will eventually wear off but that the appreciation of having 1 great guitar only becomes deeper.


I agree. I used to have a couple of Epiphones, with boutique pickups, custom setups, the works. I had a lot of fun playing them. I used to be one of those guys who talked about diminishing returns over $700, paying for the brand on the headstock, my Epiphone being "just as good" as Gibsons costing four times as much, etc.

Then one day I tried that cute Cherry gloss-top ES-335 Dot that a local store had received as part of his first order from Gibson. And I ate crow. I bought that guitar on the spot, traded my Sheraton II for it. That guitar sounded better, played better, felt better and it inspired me to play in a whole new way. It took my playing to a whole other level. Mind you, I still suck, but not quite as much as I sucked back then :smile:

Three years later, I still enjoy it as much as I did on day one. In fact, probably even more.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2010)

My question was never really about cheaper/high priced guitars.

I simply wanted to know if people had the choice to purchase a guitar would it be a parlor or a jumbo (in my case a mini-jumbo). I just want a different sound than my dreadnaught and 12 string.


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## Mike MacLeod (Nov 27, 2006)

*the life of a thread. & to answer your question.*

Ain't it great how threads can get a life of their own??

I reckon a Parlour guitar will give you the biggest difference in sound. A Mini-Jumbo will have pretty much the same cavity size as your Dread. - at least compared to a parlour. 

However, as I have said before: "It's only a guitar. If it doesn't really belong in your stable, sell it and try another." To many folks this is part of the fun. 

'best of luck.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Mike MacLeod said:


> The other fun thing is the "hunt". Which is what we are all doing here! Even if it is just a vicarious (or even voyeuristic??) thrill.


Definitely the hunt is part of it. I've spent lots of time going to various store, trying out various guitars. Last time around I tried out over 30 guitars at one store alone on one day--and walked out empty handed. None were right. However, that was the same store I wound up buying a guitar from. They didn't have the one I bought the day I tried out over 30.

I love the hunt--whether for myself or vicariously. yesterday a friend and I got to help a stranger pick out a new guitar by answering questions and strumming chords and I even threw in some finger picking, so he could see what it sounded like. It was a lot of fun.



smorgdonkey said:


> I tend to think that the 'fun' of having 5 cheap beaters will eventually wear off but that the appreciation of having 1 great guitar only becomes deeper.
> 
> That's my 2 cents...must sound funny coming from a guy with 26 guitars!


On the other hand the fun hasn't worn off for me at all--but some of my oldest guitars would have been considered mid-market type ones when I got them.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

If you are comfortable with the size of the jumbo, go for it. You know what they say. "Go big or go home." The jumbo just gives you a more full and rich sound than the parlour. Plus you can still play the jumbo IN the parlour.:smile:


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

But you can't play the parlour in the jumbo...


sigiifa


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## Mike MacLeod (Nov 27, 2006)

*Jeez, Zontar!!!*



zontar said:


> But you can't play the parlour in the jumbo...
> 
> 
> sigiifa


C'mon, man!!!


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

wiley said:


> My question was never really about cheaper/high priced guitars.
> 
> I simply wanted to know if people had the choice to purchase a guitar would it be a parlor or a jumbo (in my case a mini-jumbo). I just want a different sound than my dreadnaught and 12 string.


I have Seagull MJ I purchased for myself and bought an A&L AMI (Parlour) for my grandkid.
2 totally different guitars obviously, and two quite different from a dread.
IMO however, the MiniJumbo isn't as tonally different from a dread as you might think.It is actually pretty close to the same size really,just shaped differently,in fact the case they sell for it(TRIC) is the same one they sell for the Seagull dreads.
So,if you are going for a greater tonal variation,the Parlour will be the one.


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## SBell (Jan 7, 2010)

*I too Enjoy Michael's Posts*

I have been to Michael's place and what can I say other than when I die that's the place I want to haunt by playing the instruments he has there! I Have A Martin D35, Martin 12 String, Goldtone Banjo but man I would be willing to give a particular body part to be able to afford the Bourgeios parlour he has there!


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## roadflix (Nov 4, 2008)

Let me humbly suggest the definitive answer to the question of guitar size and cost (or completely muddy the waters even more). Watch the CBC program Dragon's Den this coming Wednesday Jan 13th at 8 PM. At the very least the program will certainly be entertaining for guitar players!


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## davm444 (May 10, 2008)

*Okay. So you found your true love*



Mike MacLeod said:


> OK, I know I'm going to sound like a guitar snob - and I can plead guilty - but I got here honestly.
> - However, I would like to impart a little personal history.
> In the late 60s when I started playing, I bought everything I could find; $200 guitars, $200 12 strings, $200 mandolins, $200 Banjos, etc. These were perfectly decent instruments (possibly equivalent to $700 in todays money - even a couple of used 60s Gibsons. And I had a lot of fun with them and developed to a certain level.
> Then, my life changed in the mid 70s. Somehow, my factory 2nd Hummingbird needed a neck reset (how odd!) and the chap doing the job broke the neck and gave me his early 60s small bodied Martin in lieu.
> ...


That's nice. You have one great guitar. Some of us haven't even found out if we want to actually focus on the guitar, let alone all the other instruments there are to play. I love my upright acoustic bass, but it's not exactly a tote-to-the-beach kind of instrument. A cheap electric guitar is fun for garage band jamming. A nice parlour guitar is great for quiet strumming. A jumbo is good for loud acoustic jams...so which to buy? What do you think you'll do most often? How about both? 

I don't think you're a snob. You just know what you like. That's good.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9Guw3PE-i_4&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9Guw3PE-i_4&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

And here endith the lesson :bow:


I repeat my earlier post 


"Parlor"


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I like parlour instruments. There is a certain intimacy they evoke that is hard to get from a full-bodied acoustic.

If this was 1943, the notion that one absolutely needed a dreadnaught to get any appreciable volume would hold water. But these days, you can make anything acoustic be more than loud enough.


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