# Supernova "Band on the Run" series?



## Pneumonic (Feb 14, 2008)

Heya, all.

My son's band was asked to play one of the shows in the Shure Band on the Run series. They are just starting out (16 year olds) and are considering playing in order to get some experience playing live and in front of an audience. 

I have heard some not so good things about this series and was wondering if anyone has any experiences with this program, good or bad, to offer up?

Thanks


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2009)

Do they have to pay the organizer to play?
If: Yes --> Run away
If: No --> GOTO next question

Do they have to sell tickets?
If: Yes --> Run away
If: No --> GOTO next question

Do they have to sell a minimum number of tickets?
If: Yes --> Run away
If: No --> GOTO next question

Do they give up publishing rights to their songs if they win?
If: Yes --> Run away
If: No --> GOTO next question

Do they promise some two bit label first refusal on their first album?
If: Yes --> Run away
If: No --> Consider it, but take it in good humour and don't expect it to lead to huge things.

There's my $0.02.


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## canadiangeordie (Jan 10, 2009)

We're a Metal band on London, Twenty Gauge Ticket, and are playing the London leg April 17th. We dont expect to win the thing, but we need live experience before we can contemplate playing with some of the bands we'd like to gig with. We're in our 20s-early 30s but are a relatively new project.

We met with the organiser on Wednesday and have 60 tickets to sell at $10 a piece, which we will no problem. We dont have to buy any ourselves to sell. We give any extras back. We're not out of pocket in any way. 

It all seems OK. Will let you know for sure after the show!


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Ian, great points to consider here. This all sounds like the bitter pain of having been burned by this before ? 



iaresee said:


> Do they have to pay the organizer to play?
> If: Yes --> Run away
> If: No --> GOTO next question
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2009)

bagpipe said:


> Ian, great points to consider here. This all sounds like the bitter pain of having been burned by this before ?


Been there, done that, learned the lesson. When you play in all original bands and are humping that dream you'll do anything that sounds like it'll improve your odds of having an A&R guy hear your music.

A&R doesn't attend this kind of stuff no matter what the promoter says. A&R gets their next act from their network of trusted relations.

Let me tell you this kids: the band who wins, you better believe they sold a lot more tickets than you. Chew on that thought for a while.

You want a better way to get some live experience? Help your kid book their own show(s). You want to build good relationships with venues, build good relationships with other bands, and hopefully spend less time worrying about the big rip off that you're partaking in and more time enjoying playing music. Teach them about the business now and they'll have a better foundation for success. The best way to run your career is to do it yourself, and not sit by day-to-day hoping someone will "discover" you and want to do all of this for you.

Here's my loose formula for starting a fine gigging career for an all original act:

Find some bands you get along with. Love one another. Support one another. They are your peers, not your enemies. Find them, set a bill with them that everyone likes. If you're booking 3 nights with 3 bands, rotate the order so everyone gets a chance to headline and the same band isn't stuck doing the 12 - 2 set every night.

Help your kid book an all-ages friendly club. Make sure their getting a fair shake from the owner. Most all-ages venues will want a piece of the cover because they're going to lose on the alcohol sales. That's cool, but make sure it's not awful.

Help them book sound reinforcement (use people you know -- there are guys on this very board you can tap who I bet would be very young-band friendly...and honest).

Eschew tickets. They're an accounting nightmare. Just charge a cover at the door. Help them run the door (enlist and older sibling, or the wife, but for gods sake make sure it's someone you trust taking in the money).

Help them get setup. Make sure the setup and tear down between acts is happening on time, on schedule. If you can: get all the bands together a few days before the show starts and run a live rehearsal. So everyone knows what setup and tear down is like when you're under pressure. This'll also help you sort out gear sharing if possible. Temper egos with humour, remind them constantly that they do need each other to survive out there. It's them against the world. Not every band for themselves.

If you get a tight group of bands together, over time the whole process of organizing, promoting, and playing together gets closer to automatic. The machine gets oiled, runs better. The first couple of times expect to make some mistakes, stumble here and there. But keep it up and you'll not only have the skills, but a network that'll grow faster than you can imagine.

I'm not pulling this out of my ass either. The best things The Apollo Effect ever did were book our shows and make friends with every other freaking band we played with. If they're also booking their own shows then your band's name is their head when they start thinking, "We need an opening act for three nights in Southern Ontario...who should we call?"

Look at the band networks in the current Canadian scene. There's a thread that connects lots of bands to each these days; Metric -> BSS -> Stars. New Pornographers -> Neko Case -> etc.

Live experience should mean you have to sell your soul. Teach your kids their art has value, but that the value is really only realized through hard work. These pay-to-play shows teach them nothing. It's never a positive experience even if you tell yourself you don't care. Which is probably worse: you should _always_ care. It's your music. It's a little bit of your soul, out there for everyone to hear. That should never be a "meh" situation.


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## Pneumonic (Feb 14, 2008)

canadiangeordie said:


> We're a Metal band on London, Twenty Gauge Ticket, and are playing the London leg April 17th. We dont expect to win the thing, but we need live experience before we can contemplate playing with some of the bands we'd like to gig with. We're in our 20s-early 30s but are a relatively new project.
> 
> We met with the organiser on Wednesday and have 60 tickets to sell at $10 a piece, which we will no problem. We dont have to buy any ourselves to sell. We give any extras back. We're not out of pocket in any way.
> 
> It all seems OK. Will let you know for sure after the show!


Thanks.

It sounds as though Ian's first 3 points of concern listed above aren't an issue since the band isn't out of pocket any expense. 

Is there paperwork of any sort that is signed by the band?

Good luck BTW on the 17th .... that's the same day my son's band is scheduled to play. But @ Johnny B's in Whitby.


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## Pneumonic (Feb 14, 2008)

iaresee said:


> Been there, done that, learned the lesson. When you play in all original bands and are humping that dream you'll do anything that sounds like it'll improve your odds of having an A&R guy hear your music.
> 
> A&R doesn't attend this kind of stuff no matter what the promoter says. A&R gets their next act from their network of trusted relations.
> 
> ...


Thank-you for the previous list and these above thoughts. Ian.

They make a ton of sense.

For those just starting out - both band and bands Dad's - I wonder if it might make sense to adhere to your gameplan above but complement it with experience/exposure opportunity like the Shure one noted above being mindful not to get taken monetarily nor with music rights issues? 

Thanks


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## Guest (Mar 19, 2009)

My experience says the people who run these kinds of events will end up making it miserable for you. Even if you go in with a "we're just here to get some experience attitude". The experience you gain will be exposure to everything slimy and underhanded that festers in the live music scene on this continent. If you sell less then your allotment of tickets be ready to find communication shoddy, set times changed unpredictably, sound reinforcement non-existent, etc.

I do have to make a correction to my last paragraph in my monster rant. I wrote: Live experience should mean you have to sell your soul. But meant to say: Live experience _*shouldn't*_ mean you have to sell your soul.

Taking your lumps doesn't have to violent.


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## Pneumonic (Feb 14, 2008)

iaresee said:


> My experience says the people who run these kinds of events will end up making it miserable for you. Even if you go in with a "we're just here to get some experience attitude". The experience you gain will be exposure to everything slimy and underhanded that festers in the live music scene on this continent. If you sell less then your allotment of tickets be ready to find communication shoddy, set times changed unpredictably, sound reinforcement non-existent, etc.
> 
> I do have to make a correction to my last paragraph in my monster rant. I wrote: Live experience should mean you have to sell your soul. But meant to say: Live experience _*shouldn't*_ mean you have to sell your soul.
> 
> Taking your lumps doesn't have to violent.


Points taken, Ian.

Thanks again.


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## canadiangeordie (Jan 10, 2009)

Seems like youve been burned somewhere along the line...

We've spoke to other bands who've done the gig before, we're certain to sell our allocation of tickets at least, and we're using it as a catalyst for meeting other bands and gaining experience playing as a unit.

We've had worse headaches to deal with in past bands playing at shoddy venues, using terrible sound sytems, fees never being paid, other bands trying to spoil sets, and empty promises regarding stage time/beer allowances/monies earned. At least this way everything is organised for us, the venue is great, there'll be a large varied crowd and we know exactly what to expect. All they ask is we push a few tickets.

I'll take that in a heartbeat. And its definately a smiler when you see your name on a real ticket/venue poster. Maybe thats just me being amateurish...


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2009)

canadiangeordie said:


> Seems like youve been burned somewhere along the line...


Yea, I'm old and bitter and jaded now. I wish I'd had someone telling me stuff like this when I was 16.

It's all just one man's opinion though so throw a dose of salt on everything before ingesting. :smile:



> We've had worse headaches to deal with in past bands playing at shoddy venues, using terrible sound sytems, fees never being paid, other bands trying to spoil sets, and empty promises regarding stage time/beer allowances/monies earned. At least this way everything is organised for us, the venue is great, there'll be a large varied crowd and we know exactly what to expect. All they ask is we push a few tickets.


I do sincerely hope they deliver the experience they're promising. My experience says few promoters ever do. And never when it comes to "battles".



> I'll take that in a heartbeat. And its definately a smiler when you see your name on a real ticket/venue poster. Maybe thats just me being amateurish...


No, don't down play that feeling, enjoy it. Part of being an entertainer is a healthy ego. And a thick skin. :smile:


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

my kids played the one in Edmonton 2 weeks ago. I didn't see the paperwork involved.

They were told there would be a backline then the day of the show at 2 in the afternoon told no. So we carted down an Engl and a Marshall and 2 4x12's, and of course everyone wanted to use them. The answer was a very firm 'no'. Most bands played thru a couple of little Line6 combos, I don't know who they belonged to.

The band that won was a 3 piece metal band. The singer played guitar, and was very good at both....but the band behind him was very loose and indifferent. My boys' band is a 5 piece hard rock. They had the biggest and best crowd reaction of the night (it wasn't close), and played their asses off, and worked the crowd, and the singer had a particularly good night (can be wonky but wasn't). They were tight tight tight, 2 years of practice showed clearly. They didn't even place. OK I'm undoubtedly biased, but I didn't get it at all.

There is a follow up based on online voting, but that's just "who can get the most friends to sign up". Winner of that portion also gets to go to city finals.

The venue was an old theatre but no seats except a few folding chairs at the back wall....so a good sized stage and decent acoustics. Grubby part of town though.

The boys had a good enough time, and know they played a helluva good set....but the Supernova thing, they won't be doing it again. For someone just looking for live experience, I would say based on the one I attended, it would be fine as long as expectations aren't too high.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

keto said:


> my kids played the one in Edmonton 2 weeks ago. I didn't see the paperwork involved.
> 
> They were told there would be a backline then the day of the show at 2 in the afternoon told no. So we carted down an Engl and a Marshall and 2 4x12's, and of course everyone wanted to use them. The answer was a very firm 'no'. Most bands played thru a couple of little Line6 combos, I don't know who they belonged to.
> 
> ...


My old band did one of these Supernova things a few years ago and we had a roughly similar experience. Waaay too many bands smashed into a gig - I think there were 10? Anyway, not a great experience.


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