# Could I get some feedback on a short sound test?



## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

This is not about the music or the playing. It's about the sound. This a passage I've played for years and I'm comfortable with it but I've always struggled with recording it properly and I've gotten way too involved to have any objectivity left. It's the intro to a much longer piece and I really want to get the whole thing done. Any thoughts on the sound or tone?

VERSION 4:
Here's a fourth take with a completely different setup: different guitar, tuning, strings, mic and amp. It may actually still be too much bass but I like the basic sound a lot better and if I have to fix something, better it should be something I actually like to begin with.

http://www.solowayguitars.com/Recordings2017/S421-Montreal-03-27-17-1B.mp3

Version 5 ... My first attempt at a high pass filter
http://www.solowayguitars.com/Recordings2017/S421-Montreal-03-27-17-1-EQ-2.mp3

TUESDAY ... After a bunch of experiments this morning I'm now up to version 6. The bass has been reduced at the amp, the mic has been moved further from the cab and a high pass filter has been set at 100. Even with the changes, this is still probably more bass than some of you will like but for solo guitar I clearly like more bass than some of you.

http://www.solowayguitars.com/Recordings2017/MtrlTest421-03-28-17-3.mp3

TUESDAY LATER

This will be it for today. I'm trying to get less muddy but without getting what I think of as shrill. So there's going to be some compromise. Here are two versions of a single recording. The first one has the high pass filer. The second one also pulls back the highs a bit to try to get it a bit less brittle.

http://www.solowayguitars.com/Recordings2017/MtrlTest421-03-28-17-3B2.mp3

http://www.solowayguitars.com/Recordings2017/MtrlTest421-03-28-17-3B3.mp3


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Too much bass.


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

Thanks. I'll have a second version up momentarily.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

I listened to it on good speakers and sound card, not on crappy computer speakers. Nice. Maybe too much bass, but more likely not enough sparkle. There is no audible high frequencies, tone seemed muffled, almost as if you played on old strings. Good but ... humph ... it could come forward a little more.

Will there be other instruments present in that segment ?


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

BGood said:


> I listened to it on good speakers and sound card, not on crappy computer speakers. Nice. Maybe too much bass, but more likely not enough sparkle. There is no audible high frequencies, tone seemed muffled, almost as if you played on old strings. Good but ... humph ... it could come forward a little more.
> 
> Will there be other instruments present in that segment ?


No other instruments. It's strictly solo guitar. I've just posted a second take with less bass and maybe a bit more sparkle. Thanks.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Jim, I just listened to take 2. Have you got a high pass filter you could run it through? Still a little bassy, not the notes themselves or the attack, but the floating sustain is extremely rich. I don't know what the magic number to hpf, 100-120 would be a rough guess though that could be high or low a wee bit.

Or maybe that's how you want it to sound, it's not going to wreck speakers or anything.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

How do you hear the second version?


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Yeah way too much bass. Bass eats up headroom. You are going to have to make the whole thing so much quieter to not clip due to the bass.


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

Guncho said:


> How do you hear the second version?


Not very well. That's why I'm doing this. I've been playing this forever and I can never get it to record like it sounds in the room. I don't generally play with a lot of open strings and this has a bunch of them right at the lowest end of the instrument. It's a chore but I'll keep putting up new ones and letting you guys guide me if no one minds.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Try turning the bass way down til it sounds obvious and slowly turn it back up to where it sounds good.


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

Guncho said:


> Try turning the bass way down til it sounds obvious and slowly turn it back up to where it sounds good.


done. I've very much a bass slut and this runs completely against my basic nature so pleas bear with me if I'm going down in increments that may be too small. It may also be that i have to change more than just the bass to get there and if so, so be it.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Give me no bass and then a little bit of bass.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

-7.5 on bass, +15 on treble in Audacity. Sounds real nice, almost King Crimsony. How can I send the track to you. I don't want to upload it on my Soundcloud account.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Pull up a solo electric guitar jazz piece you like and compare it.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Here ... -7.5 dB on bass, +15 dB on treble in Audacity. It sounds very King Crimsony like this.

Vocaroo | Voice message


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)




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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Jim Soloway said:


> This is not about the music or the playing. It's about the sound. This a passage I've played for years and I'm comfortable with it but I've always struggled with recording it properly and I've gotten way too involved to have any objectivity left. It's the intro to a much longer piece and I really want to get the whole thing done. Any thoughts on the sound or tone?
> 
> EDIT 2:
> Here's a third take with more bass rolled off.
> ...


I see your updating the link as you go. Since I'm late to the party, I never heard the earlier versions but the one you've got up there now sounds pretty nice to me on both my studio speakers and headphones.

Update: I stand by what I said Jim. Don't overthink it. On my DAW system which has it own high quality sound card. Ver.3 (which is gone now) sounded clear (no hiss) and well done. I wish I could get my guitar to sound like that.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

All I hear is BAAAASSSSS.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Guncho said:


> All I hear is BAAAASSSSS.


I run my bass and treble flat on my studio system. I know it's a dumb question but do you have your bass turned up?


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

No I'm listening on a logitech headset through my laptop but I listen to music all day on these so am quite familiar with how they sound.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Jim, I'm with Guncho on the bass. I am listening through my Sony headphones which I use all the time, so It gives me a good idea on balance. There is actually quite a bit too much bass yet. (This is on your third recording)


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Steadfastly said:


> Jim, I'm with Guncho on the bass. I am listening through my Sony headphones which I use all the time, so It gives me a good idea on balance. There is actually quite a bit too much bass yet. (This is on your third recording)


Well Steadly, we can all have an opinion but we can't all be right.^)@#


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

I've added yet another version. This time I started from scratch with a completely different setup.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Guitar101 said:


> Well Steadly, we can all have an opinion but we can't all be right.^)@#


Yes, I know but perhaps the rest of you will eventually catch up with Guncho and me.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Jim Soloway said:


> I've added yet another version. This time I started from scratch with a completely different setup.


Still a lot of bass and it is somewhat flatter.

What did you think of that remix ?
Vocaroo | Voice message


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

BGood said:


> Here ... -7.5 dB on bass, +15 dB on treble in Audacity. It sounds very King Crimsony like this.
> 
> Vocaroo | Voice message


I like it as a mix but it was part of what got me to go back to my other setup. It was probably the right mix for what I had recorded but it really wasn't the vibe that I was after at all. That tells me that I had headed down the wrong hole to begin with.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Jim: It is getting better. There is less bass but do you think it would help to have some of the lighter sounding parts have a bit more volume? I know there has to be variance in the volume but IMHO some of the parts could use just a bit more volume. Picky, picky, picky, aren't I?


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

Steadfastly said:


> Jim: It is getting better. There is less bass but do you think it would help to have some of the lighter sounding parts have a bit more volume? I know there has to be variance in the volume but IMHO some of the parts could use just a bit more volume. Picky, picky, picky, aren't I?


That will definitely come when I get to the actual take. The whole thing is about 5:30 minutes long so there's going to be lots of work before it's actually done.


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## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

i would be interested to hear how you recorded the track. i used a bit of compression on the clip and it seemed to soften the bass up a bit. still some renonances those pulses from 18 to 24 seconds and 37-38 seconds


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I just checked my recording setup.

On my guitar parent folder I have a high pass filter at 100hz.

What are you mixing on?


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## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

cbg1 said:


> i would be interested to hear how you recorded the track. i used a bit of compression on the clip and it seemed to soften the bass up a bit. still some renonances those pulses from 18 to 24 seconds and 37-38 seconds


sorry meant to say strong attack on those pulses


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Here's a high pass filter at 275hz and some compression.


__
https://soundcloud.com/id%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fsoundcloud.com%252Fguncho%252Fguncho-mix%252Fs-Sy1Jg%3Bsecret_token%3Ds-Sy1Jg%3Btrack_id%3D314800898


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

Guncho said:


> I just checked my recording setup.
> 
> On my guitar parent folder I have a high pass filter at 100hz.
> 
> What are you mixing on?


GarageBand


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

This is very cool. You guys have pushed me into some completely new territory that I knew absolutely nothing about. I actually had to do a Google workout to figure out exactly what you're talking about. I gave it a try and posted it in the OP. I'll do some more work on it in the morning but at least I'm starting to understand what you're all talking about. Thanks for all the help. This has been incredibly useful.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

What is your recording setup?

I think you are recording too much bass to begin with. It's unusual to have to remove that much. Would be better to start with a less bass heavy signal.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Hi Jim, Can you describe your signal chain and any effects you may have used?

The last take is more balanced, but lacks a bit of "air". It may be that you are micing a bit too close? 

If you want it to sound as you hear it in the room, you need to capture a bit of the room during the recording process. Choice and position of mic(s) are critical for the right balance of direct and reflected sound.


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## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

Guncho said:


> What is your recording setup?
> 
> I think you are recording too much bass to begin with. It's unusual to have to remove that much. Would be better to start with a less bass heavy signal.


i agree you may be recording too much bass and asked about how you were recording the take. 
plugged in to the interface, miked amp, miked guitar?

i really enjoy trying to capture live takes and every time i do i find there is something i could do to make it better the next time.

keep up the good work jim.

on a side note nice sounds on the cloud "guncho" i followed you and am looking forward to listening to your tracks ;-)


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

cbg1 said:


> i agree you may be recording too much bass and asked about how you were recording the take.
> plugged in to the interface, miked amp, miked guitar?
> 
> i really enjoy trying to capture live takes and every time i do i find there is something i could do to make it better the next time.
> ...


I'm Guncho and let me know what you think!


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

I've posted yet another version. The bass is reduced but I suspect I'll always like more bass than some of you.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Jim Soloway said:


> I've posted yet another version. The bass is reduced but I suspect I'll always like more bass than some of you.


Why don't you post the new link in your latest message, without deleting the previous. It would have been instructive for new comers, to follow the progression of where you're going with this.

EDIT
I hadn't gone to the first post. But still, # 1,2,3 are gone.

Version 5 was better. Then #6 gets muddy again.


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

Jim Soloway said:


> This is not about the music or the playing. It's about the sound. This a passage I've played for years and I'm comfortable with it but I've always struggled with recording it properly and I've gotten way too involved to have any objectivity left. It's the intro to a much longer piece and I really want to get the whole thing done. Any thoughts on the sound or tone?
> 
> VERSION 4:
> Here's a fourth take with a completely different setup: different guitar, tuning, strings, mic and amp. It may actually still be too much bass but I like the basic sound a lot better and if I have to fix something, better it should be something I actually like to begin with.
> ...


TUESDAY LATER

This will be it for today. I'm trying to get less muddy but without getting what I think of as shrill. So there's going to be some compromise. Here are two versions of a single recording. The first one has the high pass filer. The second one also pulls back the highs a bit to try to get it a bit less brittle.

http://www.solowayguitars.com/Recordings2017/MtrlTest421-03-28-17-3B2.mp3

http://www.solowayguitars.com/Recordings2017/MtrlTest421-03-28-17-3B3.mp3


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

BGood said:


> Why don't you post the new link in your latest message, without deleting the previous. It would have been instructive for new comers, to follow the progression of where you're going with this.
> 
> EDIT
> I hadn't gone to the first post. But still, # 1,2,3 are gone.
> ...


I guess I didn't keep the first couple because I didn't anticipate the kind of life this thread was going to take on. When I'm working alone I don't keep every mix because it gets too confusing to sort through them later.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Jim Soloway said:


> I've posted yet another version. The bass is reduced but _*I suspect I'll always like more bass than some of you.*_




Jim, listening to the latest, I think you may have hit upon why many of us think there is too much bass.


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

Steadfastly said:


> Jim, listening to the latest, I think you may have hit upon why many of us think there is too much bass.


It kind of makes sense when you think about it. I spent 8 years playing a 7-string with a low A. For 6-string I've been tuning down for over 20 years and the two guitars that get most of my playing time are tuned to D standard and C# standard.

I listened to some bits from my album (which is now over 5 years old) and it sounded very much like what you guys have come up with in your mixes but to my ear it now sounds too thin and a bit harsh. So I guess what I'm trying to do is add more warmth without making it muddy. (And I should probably say that the help I've gotten here is making it easier for me to get there. We don't have to agree completely on the objective in order from me to learn from your methods and observations).


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

Jim Soloway said:


> TUESDAY LATER
> 
> This will be it for today. I'm trying to get less muddy but without getting what I think of as shrill. So there's going to be some compromise. Here are two versions of a single recording. The first one has the high pass filer. The second one also pulls back the highs a bit to try to get it a bit less brittle.
> 
> ...


This sounds pretty good to me. I think 3B3 is balanced a bit better top to bottom, but both sound good. I'll have a listen on the headphones and monitors tonight.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Jim Soloway said:


> It kind of makes sense when you think about it. I spent 8 years playing a 7-string with a low A. For 6-string I've been tuning down for over 20 years and the two guitars that get most of my playing time are tuned to D standard and C# standard.
> 
> I listened to some bits from my album (which is now over 5 years old) and it sounded very much like what you guys have come up with in your mixes but to my ear it now sounds too thin and a bit harsh. So I guess what I'm trying to do is add more warmth without making it muddy. (And I should probably say that the help I've gotten here is making it easier for me to get there. We don't have to agree completely on the objective in order from me to learn from your methods and observations).


I like your comments. I agree that it would be a pretty boring world if we agreed on everything. It would make for a pretty boring and sterile world. As far as learning from others, I've read comments from some of the others and their posts were much more informative than mine. I certainly have learned a couple things from your thread..


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Please be aware that listening on a tablet and headphones or earbuds is not something I would use to make judgments on the quality of any recording. Just sayin.


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

A final wrap-up on this thread...

Last night I took a shot at recording the complete piece for a video. It's over 5 minutes long and it's the first really complex recording that I've done with this guitar. I'll probably do it again just because of some video issues but having just done my morning-after listen test, I'm thrilled with the way it sounds. To my ears it sound big and full and yet everything remains crystal clear. I should have something up for public consumption in the next few days. This is a video that I've wanted to do for a couple years but it's a challenge. It covers the largest range of any piece I've ever played from the bottom of the lowest string to harmonics at the very top of the fingerboard. 

I really appreciate all the input and effort from everyone in this thread. I don't know if you'll all like the result but I do know that it's going t0 be a lot better because of your generous input. So thanks to all for the help.


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