# Jackson Dinky Vs. Epiphone SG



## JaXm (Dec 11, 2008)

Greetings all! As is pretty obvious I'm really new here, but I have a question I just can't seem to answer on my own.
I'm new to the guitar, still learning the very basics, and stumbling my way through lessons with a cheap no-name strat replica guitar. There's nothing wrong with it, but it feels to me that it might be easier to learn if I knew I was working with a guitar that I could trust.
In other words, it works, but I just don't know what it would be like to learn using a guitar whose quality is beyond question. I don't want to feel like I might be held back by a sub-par made guitar. 

So... here's where I need you guys. I've got my head set on maybe purchasing one of two guitars... Either the Jackson Dinky, or Epiphne SG, as stated in the title, of the left handed variety, and I thought I would elicit your opinions between the two. There are like.... *2* music stores where I live, and neither sell these models, so I can't just try them out myself 

I'm too new to have a "style" or anything like that, and I don't have any playing preferences. I really just want some good old fashioned "I like this guitar because of *this*"... I chose these two because they're respected companies, and one is a solid body while the other is a bolt on neck style. 
Thanks for your time ladies, and gentlemen!

tl;dr I need a new guitar, help me choose one?  lol


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## blacktooth (Jul 3, 2010)

If it were me I would go with the Jackson, but that is personal preference. I like a floyd rose and 25.5" scale. However I also like the shorter scale of the epiphone, but the tune-o-matic leaves a little to be desired for me. that being said, it may be better for you to learn on something that stays in tune better, like the epiphone, but if you got a jackson with a GOOD floyd on it, that wouldn't as much of an issue. 
Either one would be an excellent choice as an upgrade guitar, so it would mostly depend on pricepoint and availability to you I guess. And really, there's nothing wrong with learning on a strat copy... 
Get a friend to show you how to set it up so the action is comfortable, and it plays in tune across the board, and you'll be fine. 
just my .02


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

As a new player, if you're not comfortable with doing things like set-ups and the like on your own, go for the SG (or anything without a Floyd). Those double-locking trem systems can be a huge pain if you're not comfortable with them. Just changing strings is annoying, nevermind trying to set it up to float properly.

Also, I had an Epi SG as my starter guitar and I kept playing it for years after I got "nicer" stuff. Those Epis are really solid guitars.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

If the Jackson is Japan-made, it'll probably be a higher quality instrument, but...



hollowbody said:


> As a new player, if you're not comfortable with doing things like set-ups and the like on your own, go for the SG (or anything without a Floyd). Those double-locking trem systems can be a huge pain if you're not comfortable with them. *Just changing strings is annoying, nevermind trying to set it up to float properly.*


You really hit the nail on the head!


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## JaXm (Dec 11, 2008)

I've heard that floating trems suck to figure out sometimes, but though I'm a new guitar player, I like to think I am a very practiced tinkerer, and all-round mechanical person. I believe that with online tutorials, and help from my instructor I've set up my guitar pretty good. It just... I dunno, as I said there really isn't anything WRONG with it, I don't think. but it doesn't stay in tune very well, the action is RIDICULOUSLY high, and it feels like I'm fighting the guitar when I'm trying to play some simple chords. I just think it's time to spend a teeny bit of money to help myself along 
are there advantages/disadvantages between solid body, and bolted-on neck designed guitars?


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

If your ok with using your hands then go with the floating bridge, you can always block it so it does not move.
Bolt on does not mean cheap, I have a $2,200 guitar with a bolt on neck.
Both are good with the Jackson having a thinner neck, I like both but would get the Dinky. 

A well set up guitar makes all the difference, whatever you get get it set up from the shop so you start off right.
This will also help you know when something is off.

Once you have your new guitar take some time to learn how to set up your old strat, you may as well learn then do your own work.


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## JaXm (Dec 11, 2008)

I think the strat is set up pretty good. I know how to set the speaking length of the strings, and the neck tension. I find that I HAVE to set the strings up high otherwise they start to buzz if I depress a the string on a high fret, which sucks, because the high action makes my finger pads hit strings when I'm fretting a lower string (if that makes sense)


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

JaXm said:


> I've set up my guitar pretty good. It just...doesn't stay in tune very well, the action is RIDICULOUSLY high, and it feels like I'm fighting the guitar when I'm trying to play some simple chords.


No offense, but it doesn't sound like it is set up well. Unless the neck is really warped, or there is something similarly wrong with the guitar, a decent setup should take care of every one of those things.

The Dinky will probably be a better guitar, quality-wise, but if your only guitar is one with a floyd-style bridge you need to really like that kind of thing to have the patience to mess with it for string changes and so forth. Once it's strung and in tune they're pretty much set-and-forget, but when it comes time to change strings, or if you want to play a song in, say, drop-D tuning (fairly common these days) then you're in for a bit of a pain in the butt. And the initial setup of the action and intonation is always more time-consuming than with fixed-bridge guitars.


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

JaXm said:


> I think the strat is set up pretty good. I know how to set the speaking length of the strings, and the neck tension. I find that I HAVE to set the strings up high otherwise they start to buzz if I depress a the string on a high fret, which sucks, because the high action makes my finger pads hit strings when I'm fretting a lower string (if that makes sense)


Maybe it needs a fret dress? Or have you tried raising the bridge saddles?


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## LarryLimerick (Nov 23, 2009)

hollowbody said:


> As a new player, if you're not comfortable with doing things like set-ups and the like on your own, go for the SG (or anything without a Floyd). Those double-locking trem systems can be a huge pain if you're not comfortable with them. Just changing strings is annoying, nevermind trying to set it up to float properly.
> 
> Also, I had an Epi SG as my starter guitar and I kept playing it for years after I got "nicer" stuff. Those Epis are really solid guitars.


I agree I bought an Epiphone SG for my first guitar I have enjoyed playing it. (I done have any experience with the Jackson Dinky though.)


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

The Jackson is probably a much better guitar.

Floyd Rose bridges are only challenging if you don't understand how they work or willfully ignore how they work. I change strings in less than a half hour.

Having said that many players seem to find tuning, set up and string changes frustrating with double locking systems.

I guess many people also find a standard transmission difficult and would choose a Pontiac over a Porsche for that reason.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Milkman said:


> The Jackson is probably a much better guitar.
> 
> Floyd Rose bridges are only challenging if you don't understand how they work or willfully ignore how they work. I change strings in less than a half hour.
> 
> ...


LOL, I drive standard and can tune my flyod!!

OP, hold from the body and look down the strings, how is the bend of the neck. It sounds to me like its deep in the middle, you can also measure this.
Start at the last fret then measure every few until the neck, this will tell you where the problem is.
To adjust you pull the cover off right at the nut, under is an allen key nut, this is not a nut but a rod with the nut in the body. If you tighten the bow gets bigger if you loosen it gets less, do it half turn at a time then let it come back. I also like to back off the strings so it moves easier.

This bow in the neck can be caused by humidity or simply from thicker or thinner strings, its very common and normal.

FYI, to block the flyod is easy, get the strings at your perfect height then pull off the back cover.
You will see a bar with that moves when you hit the arm, your stopping that. On the neck side make a piece of wood that fits snug inside the gap between block and body, try and make it wide so you get all the string vibration. On the other side do the same yet make it taper a bit so it wedges in, don't force it.
That last piece is optional as some like to tension the springs to hold the first block in place, I find it is more solid this way.


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## ThePass (Aug 10, 2007)

I'd go Jackson, but if you're not comfortable with the Floyd, I'd stay away from that. Try finding a fixed bridge or string thru Jackson. Can't be beat IMHO.


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## JaXm (Dec 11, 2008)

hmm.... seems you guys like the jackson  I'm not afraid of learning how to work with a floyd trem. I will practice, and of course... I'm sure my teacher will take that into account if that's what I get, and help. I was leaning towards the epiphone at first, because I like the way it looks. it's a purrty guitar 
is there any big difference in tone, or style of playing when going with a neck through, as opposed to a bolt on neck? I've never been able to find any comparisons


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Mark P said:


> Maybe it needs a fret dress? Or have you tried raising the bridge saddles?


I agree. It's either the frets or the nut if all other things have been checked (including bridge saddle height)



Milkman said:


> The Jackson is probably a much better guitar.
> 
> Floyd Rose bridges are only challenging if you don't understand how they work or willfully ignore how they work. I change strings in less than a half hour.
> 
> ...


Hey, I drive a Pontiac!!  

Though a 911 Turbo has been my dream car since I was 9 years old.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

I use the Tiptronic in mine. I call D the granny mode. As for Floyds, guitarists should learn everything about their guitars, so dont let the extra work dissuade you, you will get alot out of it. Imagine if all those shredders gave up because it was too difficult and playing pop music was far more easier..............


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Accept2 said:


> guitarists should learn everything about their guitars, so dont let the extra work dissuade you, you will get alot out of it. Imagine if all those shredders gave up because it was too difficult and playing pop music was far more easier..............


I absolutely agree. But, I also remember when I was first starting out how I had this fear of "ruining" my guitar by messing with it, so it depends on the person, I guess. Nowadays, I do my own setups, soldering etc., but years ago, I was always afraid of hurting my baby.


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Floyd Rose bridges are only challenging if you don't understand how they work or willfully ignore how they work. I change strings in less than a half hour.


It's not the challenge as much as it is the comparative hassle. You have to admit that going from standard tuning to drop-D on a fixed-bridge guitar is quite a bit faster. 

P.S. I drive a manual transmission car.


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## JaXm (Dec 11, 2008)

I drive a Right Hand Drive 300zx with a manual  I really don't want to let "complexity" dissuade me from any one type of guitar. I like to learn. So you guys think I should go for the Jackson? I need something to break this damned tie! lol


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Hey guys, they make Jackson Dinky's with tune-o-matic bridges eh? 

Look up a Dinky MG used.


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## LarryLimerick (Nov 23, 2009)

Like I said I have the Epiphone SG and have enjoyed playing, but for my next guitar I think that I will be looking into something a tremelo system, as there are times where I wished I had it. So if the Jackson is the guitar you want then go for it.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

What are the pickups in the Jackson, the Epi probably has its own in house brand which are not bad.
If the Jackson comes with real pickups and not "designed by" then it should sway you.

Also which is the better deal?
Do you like thin necks or thick?


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## ThePass (Aug 10, 2007)

You can't beat this guitar.

Jackson® Guitars : The Bloodline


I played one in the L&M Burlington store and dammed near walked out with it.

Far better than any Epi I've played. The pup's alone kick arse.

And I think it was all of $700 or so.


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## JaXm (Dec 11, 2008)

apparently the Jackson comes with Duncan Seymour pickups... that was one reason I really considered it.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

The Pass, that is a beauty!

Jaxm, Not sure if you said but what type of music do you like to play?
The Jackson can play anything but with the thin neck its more geared to Rock and Metal.
The SG can do anything and some find the thicker neck more comfy.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Mark P said:


> It's not the challenge as much as it is the comparative hassle. You have to admit that going from standard tuning to drop-D on a fixed-bridge guitar is quite a bit faster.
> 
> P.S. I drive a manual transmission car.


Nobody mentioned changing tunings to non-standard on the fly. Yes, if you expect to use one guitar for multiple tunings, a Floyd is not practical. I prefer to use more than one guitar to accomplish things. When you try to do everything with one instrument, pretty much everything is comprimised to one extent or another.

The concern expressed was to do with string changes and tuning in general was it not?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Bevo said:


> The Pass, that is a beauty!
> 
> Jaxm, Not sure if you said but what type of music do you like to play?
> The Jackson can play anything but with the thin neck its more geared to Rock and Metal.
> The SG can do anything and some find the thicker neck more comfy.


I'm still not sure when neck thickness was an indicator of what music the guitar was designed towards lol.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

JaXm said:


> apparently the Jackson comes with Duncan Seymour pickups... that was one reason I really considered it.


Yes, it does, and the JB/Jazz combo that it comes with is a very popular combo and can get you a lot of tones.

I don't know if anyone mentioned it yet, but is price a problem? The Jackson's we're talking about are twice as much as the Epi SG!

Also, I find in the last 3 or 4 months, I've really got a hankering for this Jackson:










Haven't found one in a store yet to try, but I did try another Dinky and the neck and fretboard dimensions were strange to me. I come from a primarily Tele/Strat/LP playing background, so the flatter radius and general construction of the neck were way weird to me, but hey, I'm willing to learn cuz that's a bitchin' guitar!


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Dont assume that a string thru Jackson will have the same neck as a Floyded one. My SLATQH has a baseball bat neck, while my others have a thin neck............


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Accept2 said:


> Dont assume that a string thru Jackson will have the same neck as a Floyded one. My SLATQH has a baseball bat neck, while my others have a thin neck............


I was wondering about that. The Dinky I tried in the store was a S/S/H, but I can't recall exactly which one. I didn't know if the neck was identical to the one on the DK2M or not. I guess I'll just have to find one to try out.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Accept2 said:


> Dont assume that a string thru Jackson will have the same neck as a Floyded one. My SLATQH has a baseball bat neck, while my others have a thin neck............


Budda, don't you know metal guitars have thin necks 
Yeah, different guitars even in the same model can have different necks so don't go with that!

Maybe you need t track one down and try it.
Also as said, whats your budget?
The Jackson is nice but not sure at double the cost.


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Nobody mentioned changing tunings to non-standard on the fly. Yes, if you expect to use one guitar for multiple tunings, a Floyd is not practical. I prefer to use more than one guitar to accomplish things. When you try to do everything with one instrument, pretty much everything is comprimised to one extent or another.


Quite true. From what the OP said, this new guitar will be his only real playable guitar.



Milkman said:


> The concern expressed was to do with string changes and tuning in general was it not?


Uh-huh. But there is more to general use than changing strings.


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## JaXm (Dec 11, 2008)

I think I would prefer a thin neck. I have sorta small hands for a guitarist, but longish fingers. I would love to learn to play metal, and/or classical, since my two favorite genres of music are metal (Disturbed, Manowar, Nightwish, Dragonforce, etc) and classical (Bach, Pachelbel, etc), but I don't want to start mentally limiting myself by trying to play a "metal" guitar, or "jazz" guitar, etc. As for price... well, both are affordable to me, so I'm drawn between whether the extra money would be a good investment, or if I should work my way up slowly.
Arg! So hard to make the decision. lol


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

JaXm said:


> I don't want to start mentally limiting myself by trying to play a "metal" guitar, or "jazz" guitar, etc.


Honestly, the two guitars you've short-listed won't be that different in this respect.  It's not like you're comparing these two:

















Go with whatever feels right to you, even just to think about it, since you can't test them first. The best guitar is the one you'll most like to play.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

What is your amp situation?

Staying within your budget you may be able to get the Epi and a Blackheart 5 watt combo tube amp which will make for a great rig.
A multi FX pedal or a few key pedals will get you all the tone from classical ish to metal.


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## JaXm (Dec 11, 2008)

I have a Kustom Dual 30RC 30watt. I know it's not a tube amp, it's solid state, so it's not "hardcore" but it sounds really nice. better than the little 10-watt amp I got with my guitar. it sounds AWFUL. lol.


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## JaXm (Dec 11, 2008)

well, I think I have come to a decision.... See, it occurs to me that there is no reason I can't buy the epiphone with it's lower price, and work with it. I don't need yet all the things the Jackson has to offer. I don't need a trem when I can't even consistently pluck a proper note, and I don't need the added stress of learning new guitar equipment when I could be learning to PLAY said guitar... SO.. that being said, there is not reason I can't in a few months time, or a year, or whatever, buy the Jackson. I don't have to have only one guitar, right?


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

JaXm said:


> well, I think I have come to a decision.... See, it occurs to me that there is no reason I can't buy the epiphone with it's lower price, and work with it. I don't need yet all the things the Jackson has to offer. I don't need a trem when I can't even consistently pluck a proper note, and I don't need the added stress of learning new guitar equipment when I could be learning to PLAY said guitar... SO.. that being said, there is not reason I can't in a few months time, or a year, or whatever, buy the Jackson. I don't have to have only one guitar, right?


That is some rational-assed thinking! And like a couple people have said, the Epi is no slouch of a guitar. I'm sure you'll love it and when the time is right, you can get the Jackson or another trem-equipped guitar if you need.


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## JaXm (Dec 11, 2008)

haha! well, I DO have some serious love for Ibanez guitars... they are just so PURTY...
Can I ask though? What are the MAIN differences between a full blooded Gibson SG, and an epiphone? Or even say, a squire versus a Fender Strat? I mean... they're made from the same woods, seem to have similar electronics. They're the same shape... What makes an epi or squire, or whatever.... so much cheaper than it's up market counter part?


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

JaXm said:


> haha! well, I DO have some serious love for Ibanez guitars... they are just so PURTY...
> Can I ask though? What are the MAIN differences between a full blooded Gibson SG, and an epiphone? Or even say, a squire versus a Fender Strat? I mean... they're made from the same woods, seem to have similar electronics. They're the same shape... What makes an epi or squire, or whatever.... so much cheaper than it's up market counter part?


Most aren't made from the same woods, actually. You won't find too many ash Squiers. Alder...maybe. But it will mostly be cheaper woods like basswood or ply. Even if it's alder or mahogany that's being used, it'll be a lower quality wood, which usually means heavier, less resonant and generally less suited to instruments.

Electronically, there's a HUGE difference between Epis and Gibsons (or Squiers and Fenders). Cheap Asian pots and switches WILL fail eventually. You might get a year, you might get more, but you also might get less. Not to say CTS pots or Switchcraft or CRL switches won't fail, but they'll generally last a lot longer. Pickups are usually pretty uninspiring in overseas guitars with some exceptions, like the Classic Vibe line of Squiers.

Fit and finish is generally much better on US guitars too. Epis and Squiers are prone to poorly dressed and leveled frets, but you will also occasionally find things like unconnected wires, really poorly cut nuts, that kind of thing.

You get what you pay for. Cheapie guitars CAN be really nice. I love my Squier Classic Vibe Tele, and the Epi SG and Epi Dot I had were both great players and had awesome tone, but I also put A LOT of work into all those guitars to get them where they were, including pickups, nuts, pots, switches, jacks, full wiring, fret level and dress, setups etc. The good thing is, though, that you can do this stuff step by step and eventually end up with a great guitar that can certainly be close to, if not as good as a US made guitar.


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## JaXm (Dec 11, 2008)

hmm.. Interesting. I know I've put some work into my strat copy... I shielded the body, which didn't really help with some buzzing I was getting, but I found out that my tone switch was completely BORKED, and so I changed out the whole pot set and that did it.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

pony up $750, buy used Gibson (yes they do metal), shred hard.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

A Gibson SG can be had pretty cheap, I have seen them down to $600 used.

I think the Epi and a good set up will be a perfect guitar for you to learn with.
They are light and comfy and while not a Gibson it does have some of that blood.
This guitar is also a nice vanilla guitar, it can do any type of music out there and do it well.

Giddy up and post a new guitar day!


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## JaXm (Dec 11, 2008)

Budda said:


> pony up $750, buy used Gibson (yes they do metal), shred hard.


lol! One step at a time... shredding will come after I've mastered a few chord changes I think. 
unfortunately, finding a used left handed gibson seems to be nigh impossible... It was what I started looking for, when I decided a NEW epi might be as good, if not better idea.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

L&M was selling brand new Gibson SG in Left and Right for $999 a few months back, they had a sexy white one that was calling for me.


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## JaXm (Dec 11, 2008)

Well, I know I had initially decided on the Epiphone, but I managed to find a right hand version in a music store, and had the guy play it a bit so I could hear how it sounded. I was actually kinda disappointed  It sounded...... a little tinny :S I don't know if it was the playing, though he sounded ok, or what it was, but I was just very underwhelmed by the guitar... Now I wonder if I really should go for the Jackson, which from youtube video reviews sounds REALLY good. I wish I could do a side by side comparison. Drat you, musical instruments!!!


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Take it with a huge grain of salt, guitars and amps are tools for your fingers to make the tone.
One of the best sounding guitars is the biggest piece of crap out there, Mr Eddy Van Halens Frankenstein. Look it up and you will see its a guitar a teenager would build in the garage.
If he was to take a properly working bottom line guitar you would know it was him playing it.
Stevie Ray Vaughn's #1 guitar was also in horrible shape, he bought it from a pawn shop but man the tone!!

What I am trying to say is as important as the guitar is, its only a tool that you use to make YOUR sound.
The most important thing when buying a guitar is the fit and not the sound at your point. You want it to feel like a glove with the strings falling in your hands, even the way it fits on your lap and against your chest.
The right guitar will talk to you, if you take the time to feel every one of them you will see what you like.

The guitar tone will get more important to you as you play more, changing strings and pickups are easy and cheap. A single coil Strat with the right pickup can play death metal as will a flying V play blues.

Spend some time in the shops feeling them, don't even worry about the sound for now, search for feel and quality.
If you buy used you will always get your money back, new not so much.

Good luck and keep us posted!


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

What Bevo said, but also, what amp was it playing through? I'll bet it was small Traynor or Fender practice amp. That guitar through a real amp will sound much better. An amp is at LEAST 50% of the tonal equation, if not more.


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## JaXm (Dec 11, 2008)

hmm... all good things to think about. I hate making decisions. lol


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Jaxm

I have been wanting an acoustic for a while and did my homework so I knew the difference. I also stopped by all the shops to try them out.
Today I walked into my local L&M seen this Takamine on the wall pulled it off and gave it a go, it was amazing not to mention all my homework went out the window.
At the end of the day I wanted a bunch of specs and was willing to spend $1,000 to get all of it. What i got was half of that and a guitar that called for me, it is so comfortable and nice to play I have not put it down for 2 hours. I only did cause my fingers were killing me!

So went in to spend lots and left spending half of what I was going to and am thrilled.
Even learned a Dallas Green song or two which I hate but this guitar makes it sound so nice that I actualy like his music now.

Bottom line, go get your guitar and stop sweating the small stuff..


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## JaXm (Dec 11, 2008)

So I know, that I'm probably resurrecting a totally dead thread at this point, but I just felt that I wanted to share with you guys what I have finally purchased myself.
Behold!









Yeah, I know it's neither an Epiphone, OR a Jackson, but I saw this once, and immediately fell in love with it. 
It's the bats.
And the EMG's.... lol
I also have started taking lessons again! Teachers ftw!


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