# Pickup Comparison - Fender Vs. GFS



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Which one do you prefer? *Please don't reply if you don't watch the video.*


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Having compared these pickups myself, not relying on YouTube clips, the Fender would be my choice. You get what you pay for and it’s very noticeable when you play clean, dude needs to lay off the gain


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Isn't comparing Alnico's to ceramics a bit like comparing apples to oranges? Fender for the win. And I love ceramics.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Dorian2 said:


> Isn't comparing Alnico's to ceramics a bit like comparing apples to oranges? Fender for the win. And I love ceramics.


The video is comparing sound not design.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Can't help but think of this... 
Garbage for suckers ...


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## nbs2005 (Mar 21, 2018)

I was completely underwhelmed by the GFS truecoil pups I had. Like literally some of the worst pups I've heard. That was with their harness and a Fender harness. 

If you need cheap pups scrounge some used Fenders. I wouldn't go with GFS.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> The video is comparing sound not design.


I was comparing the sound of the ceramics vs the sound of the Alnico. I have both in my LP. Ceramic bridge 16.7K and Alnico in Neck 8.6K. Besides the variance in output volume there's also a very distinct difference in the mids, clarity, and overall tone of the 2 pups. At least in my experience playing it on a daily basis.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


> I was comparing the sound of the ceramics vs the sound of the Alinico. I have both in my LP. Ceramic bridge 16.7K and Alnico in Neck 8.6K. Besides the variance in output volume there's also a very distinct difference in the mids, clarity, and overall tone of the 2 pups. At least in my experience playing it on a daily basis.


get the F out with your real life daily basis bullshit!


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> The video is comparing sound not design.


you can get an FX unit to make any saxophone sound like an Alvarez, sound is relative


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I think if the person doing the video would have used his Volume and Tone pots he could have cleaned that ceramic up quite a bit. Too many variables missing in that video.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

lets watch another vid


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

how many pedals & effects is he using? What's he trying to hide? The truth?


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## aC2rs (Jul 9, 2007)

No comparison - the Fender pickups were dramatically better.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

aC2rs said:


> No comparison - the Fender pickups were dramatically better.


And when you want to change it up you can generally sell them for about what you paid for them.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Know what I learned in this thread? That Brad's got some nice chops. But I knew that already. I also learned that Seymour's looking his age. Cool dude with tons of stories to tell. 

The original clickbait was just more bad youtube recording. But the classic 'cheap v expensive' complex remains, at least. We can always count on that one.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

High/Deaf said:


> Know what I learned in this thread? That Brad's got some nice chops. But I knew that already. I also learned that Seymour's looking his age. Cool dude with tons of stories to tell.
> 
> The original clickbait was just more bad youtube recording. But the classic 'cheap v expensive' complex remains, at least. We can always count on that one.


That youtuber tends to put a lot of these click baity types of videos up it seems. I'm not a fan of his approach at all. He comes across as a used car salesman to me.


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## JeremyP (Jan 10, 2012)

Over the years I have taken the GFS bait a couple times. Once for P90s and once for a strat SSS vintage style set. Both times I was disappointed. IMO Fender pickups eat the GFS for breakfast


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

JeremyP said:


> Over the years I have taken the GFS bait a couple times. Once for P90s and once for a strat SSS vintage style set. Both times I was disappointed. IMO Fender pickups eat the GFS for breakfast


Did you listen to the video or are you basing this on past experiences?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Did you listen to the video or are you basing this on past experiences?


I'm getting the feeling, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you favour the opinion of produced YT clickbait over first hand experience. Yes?


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## JeremyP (Jan 10, 2012)

Steadfastly said:


> Did you listen to the video or are you basing this on past experiences?


I did watch the video but I was basing this on past experience. To be honest the video doesn't have enough clean tones for me to really make a decision. There is about 40 seconds of clean and thats what I would base my decision on if I was going to decide based on a video. But I should add, the GFS pickups I purchased were at least 3-4 years ago , maybe they have improved. But yes basing this on my personal experience I would take the fenders over any GFS product.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

JeremyP said:


> I did watch the video but I was basing this on past experience. To be honest the video doesn't have enough clean tones for me to really make a decision. There is about 40 seconds of clean and thats what I would base my decision on if I was going to decide based on a video. But I should add, the GFS pickups I purchased were at least 3-4 years ago , maybe they have improved. But yes basing this on my personal experience I would take the fenders over any GFS product.


It may be a good reminder for everyone, that the GFS pickups used were the cheapest they have and were obtained from the sale section.


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## JeremyP (Jan 10, 2012)

vadsy said:


> I'm getting the feeling, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you favour the opinion of produced YT clickbait over first hand experience. Yes?


That's kind of where I am at. It's really hard to decide based on any youtube video considering post EQ and all the bias that undoubtedly goes into a Video like this. That said, I would have liked to hear a lot more clean tone from both sets. It would have made it a bit easier to hear the nuances etc..


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> Please don't reply if you don't watch the video.


I replied without watching the video.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

troyhead said:


> I replied without watching the video.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

troyhead said:


> I replied without watching the video.


You probably weren't the only one. As humans, we all have preconceived ideas from what we have read, heard or from past experiences. They may be right, wrong or partially right or wrong.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

greco said:


>


Greco, that's a bit harsh! Just a hand or foot would be just about right.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> As humans, we all have preconceived ideas from what we have read, heard or from past experiences. They may be right, wrong or partially right or wrong.


It’s like reading a horoscope or fortune cookie ,,., vague and covers all the angles.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Steadfastly said:


> You probably weren't the only one. As humans, we all have preconceived ideas from what we have read from past experiences.


Speaking for myself, it's become preconceived and expected now when reading your posts.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> You probably weren't the only one. As humans, we all have preconceived ideas from what we have read, heard or from past experiences. They may be right, wrong or partially right or wrong.


All my preconceived notions on sound quality were conceived when I started music at the ripe age of 8 years old. So yes you're right. From past, and as recent as today, current experiences. I already know what sounds good. Nobody has to tell me, but if they say my playing sounds good....bonus! Are you basing your preconceived notions on your own experience with various pickups, amps, guitars, and other such stringed instruments? Ukelele? Or are you basing your opinions on the poor underdog pickup that many agree aren't quite up to snuff with other more professional sounding frequency enhancement devices related to the frequencies and aural stimulation that moves us in specific ways?

Perhaps ponder that for awhile.

Then get back to me.

And yes. I am being a smart ass. Always have been.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Dorian2 said:


> All my preconceived notions on sound quality were conceived when I started music at the ripe age of 8 years old. So yes you're right. From past, and as recent as today, current experiences. I already know what sounds good. Nobody has to tell me, but if they say my playing sounds good....bonus! Are you basing your preconceived notions on your own experience with various pickups, amps, guitars, and other such stringed instruments? Ukelele? Or are you basing your opinions on the poor underdog pickup that many agree aren't quite up to snuff with other more professional sounding frequency enhancement devices related to the frequencies and aural stimulation that moves us in specific ways?
> 
> Perhaps ponder that for awhile.
> 
> ...


LOL smart ass. ;-)


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Dorian2 said:


> That youtuber tends to put a lot of these click baity types of videos up it seems. I'm not a fan of his approach at all. He comes across as a used car salesman to me.


Just trying to make that sweet YT cash. Because nothing does it like annoying videos.

Steadly, why didnt you include a video with a canadian pickup option?


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Budda said:


> Steadly, why didnt you include a video with a canadian pickup option?


Because it's cheaper going across the border?
Truly canadian.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Because it's cheaper going across the border?


I have to say, ..for a guy that complains about the greed of man and the state of the world he certainly doesn’t have an issue with pushing a product that certainly must exploit people in order to be so cheap.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

vadsy said:


> I have to say, ..for a guy that complains about the greed of man and the state of the world he certainly doesn’t have an issue with pushing a product that certainly must exploit people in order to be so cheap.


No lie detected.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

If those $15 a set pickups are so wonderful, why doesn't Fender use them? Or any other reputable guitar company for that matter? They're all for saving money and making profit. There's a profit to be made here!!!


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Do you guys remember when Steadly claimed all the pickups were made by a small few and then rebranded by the individual manufacturers?


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

This guy pulls apart a couple of Alnico 2's. One made by Gibson and one made in China. Pretty interesting. Careful what you pay for.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Sorry, but I can't trust a reviewer who uses the words, awesome, amazing and blown away to describe $5 pickups that clearly were not.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Dorian2 said:


> All my preconceived notions on sound quality were conceived when I started music at the ripe age of 8 years old. So yes you're right. From past, and as recent as today, current experiences. I already know what sounds good. Nobody has to tell me, but if they say my playing sounds good....bonus! Are you basing your preconceived notions on your own experience with various pickups, amps, guitars, and other such stringed instruments? Ukelele? Or are you basing your opinions on the poor underdog pickup that many agree aren't quite up to snuff with other more professional sounding frequency enhancement devices related to the frequencies and aural stimulation that moves us in specific ways?
> 
> Perhaps ponder that for awhile.
> 
> ...


I don't know if he actually listens to anything himself (besides youtube ads/promotions) or if all his opinions are based on a poll of other people's most popular (or controversial???) opinions? I get the sense he hasn't even been in the same room with any of this equipment, let alone owned any of it. So much faith in the internet and clickbait producers and so little faith in his own abilities.

But seriously, would you trust the ears/opinions of someone who thinks a $150 mfx pedal can make a strat sound just like an ES-175. Ears of stone, I'm guessing.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

High/Deaf said:


> I don't know if he actually listens to anything himself (besides youtube ads/promotions) or if all his opinions are based on a poll of other people's most popular (or controversial???) opinions? I get the sense he hasn't even been in the same room with any of this equipment, let alone owned any of it. So much faith in the internet and clickbait producers and so little faith in his own abilities.
> 
> But seriously, would you trust the ears/opinions of someone who thinks a $150 mfx pedal can make a strat sound just like an ES-175. Ears of stone, I'm guessing.


Main problem I have with the posts is that an experienced player can cut through the crap, but there are a number of younger and older, more impressionable new players that would be ill informed. I still teach guitar to a few people and part of the "repertoire" is too inform the students on appropriate decision making when choosing gear and many of the finer details of getting the most out of your instrument. You know, something as basic as a proper restring just for starters. Never mind what's on the table here and in waay too many other threads. Hell, I even quesetion my own experience at times when I keep reading the same nonsense over and over. Then the time wasting process of proving your initial experience results were correct in the first place but were somehow dislodged by "internet banter" of people consistantly repeating questionable and many times false information to others. It gets a little annoying.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I put set of these GFS pickups in a MIJ Squier strat a few years ago. 

1963 Strat® Texas Wound Professional Series Pickups

All in with shipping they were around $150 CDN. They came prewired on a pickguard with switch, jack, and pots. I can only compare them to the MIJ ceramic pickups that I took out. They were much better than the stock. I no longer have the guitar but I did really like the tone at the time. I don't think I've had as nice a tone on any strat since. All my strats since then have had different versions of Fender or DiMarzio noiseless pickups. I prefer the noiseless even though there are better tones available with more traditional single coils. I would buy from GFS again if I was looking for some low cost single coils. I've never tried their cheaper options but their "top" of their line are quite good.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Dorian2 said:


> *Main problem I have with the posts is that an experienced player can cut through the crap, but there are a number of younger and older, more impressionable new players that would be ill informed.* I still teach guitar to a few people and part of the "repertoire" is too inform the students on appropriate decision making when choosing gear and many of the finer details of getting the most out of your instrument. You know, something as basic as a proper restring just for starters. Never mind what's on the table here and in waay too many other threads. Hell, I even quesetion my own experience at times when I keep reading the same nonsense over and over. Then the time wasting process of proving your initial experience results were correct in the first place but were somehow dislodged by "internet banter" of people consistantly repeating questionable and many times false information to others. It gets a little annoying.


That's my issue as well. I see so much BS on the internet* that I've long since learned that every person with a keyboard can be a brain surgeon or rocket scientist ---- or gear expert. No CV required. Buyer beware. 


* Case in point, I get so sick of the "if you work on a tube amp, you have to let it sit for 4 hours / 4 days / 4 months before it's safe to work on". Complete bullshit - every tube amp I've owned (and that's all the major labels) has been discharged to safe voltages _in less than 5 minutes. _But it's hard to lean away from public caution in these cases, because people who don't already know that probably shouldn't be opening up their amps in the first place. The other one that gets me is the complete misunderstanding of affect of different speaker impedances in tube amps. No, your transformer won't catch on fire if you turn your amp on, without signal, with no speaker connected. Well, unless it's a Marshall ..........


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Kerry Brown said:


> I put set of these GFS pickups in a MIJ Squier strat a few years ago.
> 
> 1963 Strat® Texas Wound Professional Series Pickups
> 
> All in with shipping they were around $150 CDN. They came prewired on a pickguard with switch, jack, and pots. I can only compare them to the MIJ ceramic pickups that I took out. They were much better than the stock. I no longer have the guitar but I did really like the tone at the time. I don't think I've had as nice a tone on any strat since. All my strats since then have had different versions of Fender or DiMarzio noiseless pickups. I prefer the noiseless even though there are better tones available with more traditional single coils. I would buy from GFS again if I was looking for some low cost single coils. I've never tried their cheaper options but their "top" of their line are quite good.


I was hoping you'd pitch in here. I sknow a couple of members here have had great experiences with specific GFS pups and they certainly aren't all created the same way. WOuld be nice to hear your old $150 set compared to a set of Fenders of the same style. It weould probably be a much more conclusive example than the OP.


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## CathodeRay (Jan 12, 2018)

Dorian2 said:


> I know a couple of members here have had great experiences with specific GFS pups and they certainly aren't all created the same way.


I'd be one of those.
Replaced my '52 reissue tele's neck pickup with a GFS 63 Tele Vintage 7.8K in 2014 with excellent results; much sweeter & more dynamic. 
$45 with shipping. GFS's support in choosing the pickup based on what I wanted to hear was top notch.

But that doesn't prove anything other than the original Fender pickup sucked - could have been a flaw.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Withholding vote til I see specs.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Lincoln said:


> If those $15 a set pickups are so wonderful, why doesn't Fender use them? Or any other reputable guitar company for that matter? They're all for saving money and making profit. There's a profit to be made here!!!


I think you would be surprised at Fender's cost on pickups. There is not a lot to them and when buying regularly in buld, mfrs. get fantastic prices. You might also remember a thread here awhile ago where someone showed that some of the pickups used by the big boys are procured from pickup manufacturers not owned by the guitar mfrs. Most big mfrs. do that these days as it is often cheaper for them. The mfrs. sometimes dictate the prices and specs they want and go find a supplier who will give them what they want at the price they want.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Can someone ask OP to post these threads from a while back that he often references? I just think it would just give some legitimacy to his case


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

vadsy said:


> Can someone ask OP to post these threads from a while back that he often references? I just think it would just give some legitimacy to his case


I agree. whatever guitar company that is, I want to be sure I never buy anything they sell.
The pickups are the voice of the guitar, the last place you want to cheap out.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Lincoln said:


> I agree. whatever guitar company that is, I want to be sure I never buy anything they sell.


I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it will be revealed by OP, without any factual data, that its Fender and Gibson


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I bought a new set of Fender "Tex Mex" pickups once. They were far cheaper than any other pickup sets Fender sold. I hated them. I took them out, put them in a squire, and gave the squire away. That's how bad they were. Lesson learned? Don't cheap out on pickups.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Lincoln said:


> I agree. whatever guitar company that is, I want to be sure I never buy anything they sell.
> The pickups are the voice of the guitar, the last place you want to cheap out.


What would you know Dave? You build Guitars and Amps or something?


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Dorian2 said:


> What would you know Dave? You build Guitars and Amps or something?


You know, that I know nothing, and I never will know anything. I just like to spout off gibberish on public forums.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

You spend too much time actually involved with real guitars in your hands @Lincoln . You need to put those stupid wooden, irrelevant things away and spend all your time on Youtube, searching the newest badly produced comparorama. Then you'd be a certified expert and could advise all of us how things really work in 'guitarland'. 

Just curious, would Tone Emporium be a competitor to GFS? Do they target the same market and have similar quality? I have experience with TE but not GFS so _not_ asking for a friend.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

High/Deaf said:


> You spend too much time actually involved with real guitars in your hands @Lincoln . You need to put those stupid wooden, irrelevant things away and spend all your time on Youtube, searching the newest badly produced comparorama. Then you'd be a certified expert and could advise all of us how things really work in 'guitarland'.
> 
> Just curious, would Tone Emporium be a competitor to GFS? Do they target the same market and have similar quality? I have experience with TE but not GFS so _not_ asking for a friend.


Without any of these pickups being vetted and tested in an Anechoic Chamber, it would be impossible to say. I'm certain GFS is much better than all those brands though. I don't believe Lincoln's word either. I know for a fact that he does not have one in his workshop. When I tested his so called "tonewood" guitars in his puny little music room full of guitars and amps, I had to actually lie to him to make him feel better about himself. So I said they sounded good. Same with those amps. They were much too clear and the notes were waaaay too sepeerated when I played aany chords. CHords should all sound like one note, not a bucn of individual notes in so called harmony. Sorry @Lincoln, your gig is up. You've been outed!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Listening to a guitar or amp in a room? That's so '1980'. You need to record it on your cellphone, post it to utube and then listen to it. _That's_ the real test.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

High/Deaf said:


> Listening to a guitar or amp in a room? That's so '1980'. You need to record it on your cellphone, post it to utube and then listen to it. _That's_ the real test.


lol....that's the way I've done every youtube video so far. I'm gonna make it a 5 part direct to Android series. I'm still working out proper production methods so it's an easy, not highly recommended by youtubers fix for my purposes right now. Time constraints from actually practicing and playing, life, and all that nonsense. You know.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

High/Deaf said:


> Just curious, would Tone Emporium be a competitor to GFS? Do they target the same market and have similar quality? I have experience with TE but not GFS so _not_ asking for a friend.


A competitor yes, in terms of competing in that lower price range. Tone Emporium, Tone Rider, BYOC, and other low cost pickup brands are mostly all made in the same factory and branded as needed. For what its worth, the pickups made by this manufacturer generally end up as stock pickups in some well known budget-friendly guitars. Squier Classic Vibes for instance.

GFS pickups were primarily made by Artec (Korean). In some cases they were re-branded stock Artec pickups. In others, they were custom made for them by Artec, so they were unique products to GFS. I use the past tense here because I haven't looked into it in a long while, so they could be getting them made elsewhere these days.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

High/Deaf said:


> Just curious, would Tone Emporium be a competitor to GFS? Do they target the same market and have similar quality? I have experience with TE but not GFS so _not_ asking for a friend.


actually, a while back, I did happen to purchase a single coil, humbucker size, pickup from GFS, a set of the same from TE, and a set of Vineham "HumDogs". To me, the GFS & TE pickups sounded very similar and decent, but the Vineham's had that little extra "something" going on that even my worn out old ears could hear.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Lincoln said:


> actually, a while back, I did happen to purchase a single coil, humbucker size, pickup from GFS, a set of the same from TE, and a set of Vineham "HumDogs". To me, the GSF & TE pickups sounded very similar and decent, but the Vineham's had that little extra "something" going on that even my worn out old ears could hear.


When I was going through my 'quick change Strat' project, I bought a set of slightly hotter SRV-type pups from TE. I built 3 pickguards to do quick swaps, the other two had 1) a set of Rylanders and 2) a mix of zexcoil, standard strat and tele (Twangbanger) pups. 

For standard Strat tones, I use only the Rylander and for something completely different, I use the 'guard with the mix. The TE's have become redundant - not hotter enough to really differentiate from the Rylanders and not nearly as good as the Rylanders. It was an interesting experiment but the cream rose to the top, as it usually does. I should just sell off that TE-loaded 'guard because I'll probably never install it again.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

vadsy said:


> Can someone ask OP to post these threads from a while back that he often references? I just think it would just give some legitimacy to his case


You actually expect him to do your research for you? Pfffft...garnering legitimacy for their position or credibility for themselves is not enough incentive to overcome the burdensome task of posting a link. Can you imagine the additional effort involved? I mean, think about it for kryst sake.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Rozz said:


> You actually expect him to do your research for you? Pfffft...garnering legitimacy for their position or credibility for themselves is not enough incentive to overcome the burdensome task of posting a link. Can you imagine the additional effort involved? I mean, think about it for kryst sake.


...,and he’s complaining people don’t put enough effort in with connecting buyers in the music shop thread, crazy


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

vadsy said:


> ...,and he’s complaining people don’t put enough effort in with connecting buyers in the music shop thread, crazy


Source? ;-)


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> You probably weren't the only one. As humans, we all have preconceived ideas from what we have read, heard or from past experiences. They may be right, wrong or partially right or wrong.


Learned long ago, youtube videos are useless for gear comparisons because
-there is compression that affects the sound, on any internet video
-their rig is not MY rig, nothing, no pedal, no amp, no pickups, ever sounded the same in my hands as in any video
-discounting members' experiences in favour of the video, well, just think about that for a minute. Then refer to the 2 points above.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I think that the OP is doing GFS a bit of an injustice. By laying out the thread title and poll such as it is, there's really not much of a chance for GFS to win in this particular situation. I picked up a Trem block from them to replace the cheap asian pot metal crap that was in the Fender branded Squire Affinity I got so I could learn how to upgrade and fix strat style guitars. The unit came as indicated on their site with a full metal block and it was a much lower price than many other offerings from Fender themselves. There are also a number of other people who actually want to learn about guitars, how they're put together, and how they're assembled that rely on places like GFS to supply fairly solid components. Including pickups. But this is a typical thread created by OP to argue any discussion points that may be relevant to those who wish to dabble, and in many cases use on stage in their instrument of choice. But if you put your knowledge base and opinion forward in these threads, you're immediately shot down withphrases such as this.



Steadfastly said:


> Nationalism and discrimination goes a long way for the bad press that offshore and especially Chinese guitars get.


It's disingenuous and I'm having a hard time understanding why this "tactic" of discussion is even being used. It's making the OP sound like the veritable Village idiots, for lack of a better term. If he didn't spend so much time arguing about what he believes to be true and maybe listening to a thing or 2 from members here who are actually very talented and experienced craftsmen, musicians, and artists, he may just learn a thing or two and become a more rounded person.

IMO.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


> .
> It's disingenuous and I'm having a hard time understanding why this "tactic" of discussion is even being used. It's making the OP sound like the veritable Village idiots, for lack of a better term. If he didn't spend so much time arguing about what he believes to be true and maybe listening to a thing or 2 from members here who are actually very talented and experienced craftsmen, musicians, and artists, he may just learn a thing or two and become a more rounded person.
> 
> IMO.


Im pretty sure the nationalism tangent comes from OPs personal beliefs and is meant to make the world look like an awful place.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Steadfastly said:


> You probably weren't the only one. *As humans*, we all have preconceived ideas from what we have read, heard or from past experiences. They may be right, wrong or* partially right or wrong*.


I wasn't going to bring this up, but I have noticed it before and it seems to be a pattern with you. I am growing weary of your continued species bias. Using the generic 'we' when referring to the board members as human in general, is offensive. You are marginalizing the trans human and alien brethren board members. Please craft your posts more carefully as to not offend anyone's sensibilities...thank you.

And BTW partially right and partially wrong are the same thing. ;-)


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Dorian2 said:


> maybe listening to a thing or 2 from members here who are actually very talented and experienced craftsmen, musicians, and artists, he may just learn a thing or two and become a more rounded person.


I'm guessing that his ignore list is at the point that there's maybe only two or so members that he can actually read from.
So, somewhere in this thread, and others, his questions have probably been answered to his satisfaction.
But, he wouldn't know, if he chooses to ignore the source of the information.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Rozz said:


> I wasn't going to bring this up, but I have noticed it before and it seems to be a pattern with you. I am growing weary of your continued species bias. Using the generic 'we' when referring to the board members as human in general, is offensive. You are marginalizing the trans human and alien brethren board members. Please craft your posts more carefully as to not offend anyone's sensibilities...thank you.
> 
> And BTW partially right and partially wrong are the same thing. ;-)


Sorry I hurt your human sensibilities.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

keto said:


> Learned long ago, youtube videos are useless for gear comparisons because
> -there is compression that affects the sound, on any internet video
> -their rig is not MY rig, nothing, no pedal, no amp, no pickups, ever sounded the same in my hands as in any video
> -discounting members' experiences in favour of the video, well, just think about that for a minute. Then refer to the 2 points above.


Hmm. interesting point. Given what you said, would you still not be able to note the differences if all recordings were produced from the same equipment? Also, in your experience, what would say has been the largest difference between live sound and ones you have recorded. This may be a more difficult question to answer since there are a number of aspects to the sounds we hear.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Hmm. interesting point. Given what you said, would you still not be able to note the differences if all recordings were produced from the same equipment? Also, in your experience, what would say has been the largest difference between live sound and ones you have recorded. This may be a more difficult question to answer since there are a number of aspects to the sounds we hear.


But they aren't all from the same recording equipment - any individual tester may be, but not all the thousands of demos across hundreds of product lines. Again, doesn't matter because any internet video is not going to sound like what's coming out of your speaker live in your bedroom or basement. I haven't recorded a bunch of demos, a few 10-12 years ago. There are always EQ differences that every single piece in the recording chain imparts. Mic. Interface. Software. Compression at conversion, compression at youtube. 

You might have a guy or 2 that you trust their demos, that's fine and your choice. Maybe they play like you and sound like you, and you trust that when you get it in your hands you know what it will sound like. I haven't had that experience personally. And pickups are possibly the most subtle of all the (electronic, leaving aside bridges tuners etc) parts you could replace. Word of mouth and testimonials and demos are all great, but *I* won't know what they sound like until *I* try them with *my* rig.

I've had pedals that I thought would just ROAR based on youtubes, and they sounded like mouse farts with my rig, or big ole bovine excrement.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

keto said:


> But they aren't all from the same recording equipment - any individual tester may be, but not all the thousands of demos across hundreds of product lines. Again, doesn't matter because any internet video is not going to sound like what's coming out of your speaker live in your bedroom or basement. I haven't recorded a bunch of demos, a few 10-12 years ago. There are always EQ differences that every single piece in the recording chain imparts. Mic. Interface. Software. Compression at conversion, compression at youtube.
> 
> You might have a guy or 2 that you trust their demos, that's fine and your choice. Maybe they play like you and sound like you, and you trust that when you get it in your hands you know what it will sound like. I haven't had that experience personally. And pickups are possibly the most subtle of all the (electronic, leaving aside bridges tuners etc) parts you could replace. Word of mouth and testimonials and demos are all great, but *I* won't know what they sound like until *I* try them with *my* rig.
> 
> I've had pedals that I thought would just ROAR based on youtubes, and they sounded like mouse farts with my rig, or big ole bovine excrement.


To this point, that's why I prefer to rent equipment I may be interested in at L&M. I like to test it with my amps with my specific studio sound. I'm not even set up properly as a studio as far room sound is concerned, but there's no way a standard guitar running into a different amp at any music store is gonna sound like my rig. And of course for those who do play at various venues, like yourself, there's the need to really pinpoint the sound you need because of different rooms and their inherent sound properties. Room space, gear, venue sound systems and engineers, didn't want to use soundman as there are other "species" as Rozz pointed out, limits on stage sound volume at specific venues, and in music stores where you want to test. Someone who hasn't been involved in the business like many here, myself included since High School, would do well to come to terms with what they actually know and what they have no clue about.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

I used headphones while watching in order to get the best sound. Interesting video. I'd say those $14.95 pickups easily sound as good as pickups that normally sell for $18 or $19. 
Come on folks, they weren't even close. Going from the $15 ones to the $150 ones sounded like someone was switching from mono to stereo.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Did you listen to the video or are you basing this on past experiences?


Now that made me laugh.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Steadfastly said:


> Sorry I hurt your human sensibilities.


There you go again.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Dorian2 said:


> "Nationalism and discrimination goes a long way for the bad press that offshore and especially Chinese guitars get."
> 
> *I'm having a hard time understanding why this "tactic" of discussion is even being used.*
> IMO.


This.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> The video is comparing sound not design.


But alnico & ceramic pickups affect the sound.
At least they do in my experience.
And I like both--I have both.
But the difference goes beyond design.

Now having said that--use what you like.
If the cheap pickups work for you--cool.
If you like the more expensive ones--cool.

I've changed pickups on 2 guitars-both times because I didn't like the ones in the guitar (On one guitar they were not the original pickups)
In both cases I put in Seymour Duncans and do not regret that.
In one case the non original pickups I replaced were also Duncans.
One guitar was ceramic magnets, the other alnico.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

zontar said:


> But alnico & ceramic pickups affect the sound.
> At least they do in my experience.
> And I like both--I have both.
> But the difference goes beyond design.
> ...


Regardless, Zontar, we are still comparing sound in this thread, not design. I suggest if you want to compare design, it would be best to start another thread so the two things are not clouding either comparisons.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

After 77 posts and 89.5% voting in favour of Fender, I'd say it's safe to assume that the verdict is in.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Regardless, Zontar, we are still comparing sound in this thread, not design. I suggest if you want to compare design, it would be best to start another thread so the two things are not clouding either comparisons.


Ya, but when design has a drastic affect on sound it's worth mentioning. Personally I think the title should be "How Ceramic Magnet Pickups Compare to Alnico" since that's really what we're looking at. This video is really comparing apples to oranges. Show me a comparison of how lower priced Alnico's compare to higher priced ones and I'd be interested.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

GuitarT said:


> Ya, but when design has a drastic affect on sound it's worth mentioning.


Then mention the sound. For the last time, we are NOT discussing design in this thread.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

It is reasonable to expect people to give reasons for their choice, sound and design are not independent.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

GuitarT said:


> Ya, but when design has a drastic affect on sound it's worth mentioning. Personally I think the title should be "How Ceramic Magnet Pickups Compare to Alnico" since that's really what we're looking at. This video is really comparing apples to oranges. Show me a comparison of how lower priced Alnico's compare to higher priced ones and I'd be interested.


That dude gives awful tech rundowns on stuff as well, and has weird testing criteria. It should be 'how the cheapest pickups GFS makes compare'. If the guy wanted to to a test, he could have tried 2 models that actually compare better or are supposed to have some similarity to each other. So ya, design is a factor in this case because you simply can't say ceramic vs. alnico isn't a factor. That's a basic. A great deal of his videos are rushed, click baity garbage like this but he's not aiming them at a really tech savvy crowd.

GFS offers some affordable options for a few pickups styles that aren't really available affordably anywhere else. EG I have used their Filtertrons, Surf 90's and some of the oddball models and they have all been decent for the price. I don't think all their products are crap, but some definitely are.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

I have a set of tone emporium pickups in a Tele that I replaced with a set of don mare hayrides, I put the tone emporium ones back in and sold the other ones. This means all cheap pickups are better than all expensive ones.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

RBlakeney said:


> I have a set of tone emporium pickups in a Tele that I replaced with a set of don mare hayrides, I put the tone emporium ones back in and sold the other ones. This means all cheap pickups are better than all expensive ones.


I had a set of the emporium pickups and even though they shared similarities with gfs I preferred the emporium. The Hayrides are incredible, imo, I use them in a non traditional way and I feel like I’m wasting them. Still great though.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Then mention the sound. For the last time, we are NOT discussing design in this thread.


Okay, they sound like crap. 
Look, if you want to have a superficial discussion on just what they sound like then fine but most people here like to dig deeper beyond the "what's" and look into the "why's". I figured you'd been here long enough to pick up on that but maybe I'm wrong. Have a nice day.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I have watched a few of the videos by DBG. Not a fan. He really likes distortion/gain and rarely plays anything clean. The only video I have seen of his that i liked was the one where he compared different magnets in the same pickup.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

knight_yyz said:


> I have watched a few of the videos by DBG. Not a fan. He really likes distortion/gain and rarely plays anything clean. The only video I have seen of his that i liked was the one where he compared different magnets in the same pickup.


He does good production and is a good speaker. But his videos are definitely more of an introduction level content wise. Which there is a place for. Him and that 60 cycle hum guy, and guitar max make similar content. It's definitely not very in depth most of the time.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

@Steadfastly , which one do you prefer? Most here have given their opinion already. GFS or Fender for you?


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Steadfastly said:


> For the last time, we are NOT discussing design in this thread.


Like it or not, that's seems to be the way that things are going.
Tangents happen in every thread. You should know that by now.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Then mention the sound. For the last time, we are NOT discussing design in this thread.


Take GFS vs Fender out of the equation. Most people have a preference for Alnico vs. Ceramic pickups. So there's no taking the fact that these pickups are Alnico vs Ceramic (design) out of the equation based on that alone. Some people would dislike the GFS simply because they don't like the sound of Ceramic pickups.

The video the guy did is really silly based on that alone, which is common for him. If it was going to be any valid comparison, then he would start with GFS model that has at least SOME commonality with the Fender pickup beyond just being a single coil pickup. It's a pointless video and a pointless argument because of that. Bits useless for judging the tones of GFS in some general level.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> Regardless, Zontar, we are still comparing sound in this thread, not design. I suggest if you want to compare design, it would be best to start another thread so the two things are not clouding either comparisons.





GuitarT said:


> Ya, but when design has a drastic affect on sound it's worth mentioning. Personally I think the title should be "How Ceramic Magnet Pickups Compare to Alnico" since that's really what we're looking at. This video is really comparing apples to oranges. Show me a comparison of how lower priced Alnico's compare to higher priced ones and I'd be interested.





Steadfastly said:


> Then mention the sound. For the last time, we are NOT discussing design in this thread.





LanceT said:


> It is reasonable to expect people to give reasons for their choice, sound and design are not independent.


With all due respect Steadly, you are trying to separate something that can not be separated to the degree you would like.
As pointed out--they are connected-pickup design has a lot to do with sound.
Okay--the colour of the bobbins is a possible exception--but "design" elements such as magnets, wire, number of winds, width of coils, etc, all affect sound--so if we are comparing sound of different pickups the design of those pickups enters the equation.

But no matter how you slice it, my answer stays the same-based on sound.
I like both designs.

For me the best response to people having different opinions on which pickups sound best is to be glad there are different sounds, designs, etc.
If we all used the same pickups it would be boring.

I'm glad we have many, many choices.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> Then mention the sound. For the last time, we are NOT discussing design in this thread.


But in this case sound is a result of design. Therefore the aspects of the design is relevant.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Without being political about it, this reminds me of a situation where one of the members of city council put a poll on their official website to see what the people thought about an issue being discussed at the time.
However the choices & conditions of the poll were obviously skewed to reflect the preferred outcome.
But that didn't stop people from skewing it back and a clear message was left.
However did this councillor back down or say, "The people have spoken"?
No, the response was to condemn the people for not answering the poll correctly.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

zontar said:


> If we all used the same pickups it would be boring.


But, we all play differently. Our attack on the string, the pick we use, string gauge etc.
These all have an effect on the sound too.
And what about brass and reed instruments? They're all made the same, but sound different because of the player's talent.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

laristotle said:


> But, we all play differently. Our attack on the string, the pick we use, string gauge etc.
> These all have an effect on the sound too.
> And what about brass and reed instruments? They're all made the same, but sound different because of the player's talent.


I agree with that as well, but it still makes a difference.
As well I know I sound different with different pickups.

It's all part of the options we have, so whether you are just trying to egg things along or not--same answer.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I think it already has been said, but I refuse to acknowledge the results of these videos unless they are done in an anechoic chamber


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

zontar said:


> Without being political about it, this reminds me of a situation where one of the members of city council put a poll on their official website to see what the people thought about an issue being discussed at the time.
> However the choices & conditions of the poll were obviously skewed to reflect the preferred outcome.
> But that didn't stop people from skewing it back and a clear message was left.
> However did this councillor back down or say, "The people have spoken"?
> No, the response was to condemn the people for not answering the poll correctly.


I think you may have donned a cloak of invisibility with this one. Welcome.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

jb welder said:


> I think you may have donned a cloak of invisibility with this one. Welcome.


Not sure what you mean by that--but hey, thanks.
That cloak could come in handy.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

zontar said:


> Not sure what you mean by that--but hey, thanks.
> That cloak could come in handy.


You may no longer be visible to certain people.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

vadsy said:


> Having compared these pickups myself, not relying on YouTube clips, the Fender would be my choice. You get what you pay for and it’s very noticeable when you play clean, dude needs to lay off the gain


Looking back........everything that needed to be said, was well said by vadsy in the second post of this tread.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

JBFairthorne said:


> But in this case sound is a result of design. Therefore the aspects of the design is relevant.


I respectfully disagree. Neither in the video or in my OP did we discuss the design. It is all based on what do you think of the sound? The design of many things changes the sound, sight, smell, etc. but when we are asked for opinions of sound and get a different answer than was asked for, I don't understand why everyone just doesn't stick to the answers the poll asks, Fender, GFS or both. 

Anyway, you can all go ahead with whatever comments, analysis, arguments, etc., etc. you wish. This will be my last visit to this thread.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> I respectfully disagree. Neither in the video or in my OP did we discuss the design. It is all based on what do you think of the sound? The design of many things changes the sound, sight, smell, etc. but when we are asked for opinions of sound and get a different answer than was asked for, I don't understand why everyone just doesn't stick to the answers the poll asks, Fender, GFS or both.
> 
> Anyway, you can all go ahead with whatever comments, analysis, arguments, etc., etc. you wish. This will be my last visit to this thread.


I can smell these pickups.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> I respectfully disagree. Neither in the video or in my OP did we discuss the design. It is all based on what do you think of the sound? The design of many things changes the sound, sight, smell, etc. but when we are asked for opinions of sound and get a different answer than was asked for, I don't understand why everyone just doesn't stick to the answers the poll asks, Fender, GFS or both.
> 
> Anyway, you can all go ahead with whatever comments, analysis, arguments, etc., etc. you wish. This will be my last visit to this thread.


Because the poll is a farce, because it's based off a completely flawed video. You just choose to completely ignore every valid and rational reason as to why. I'm normally not rude on here, but come on. This is completely ridiculous. I wish I never opened this thread. Lesson learned. I feel like I must be falling for some elaborate troll attempt here. You have an entire thread full of people speaking common sense and fact, which you choose to ignore to make a point that isn't even decipherable from the thread.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> I respectfully disagree. Neither in the video or in my OP did we discuss the design. It is all based on what do you think of the sound? The design of many things changes the sound, sight, smell, etc. but when we are asked for opinions of sound and get a different answer than was asked for, I don't understand why everyone just doesn't stick to the answers the poll asks, Fender, GFS or both.
> 
> Anyway, you can all go ahead with whatever comments, analysis, arguments, etc., etc. you wish. This will be my last visit to this thread.


You created the problem with option #3. If it was just 'which sound in this video do you prefer', you wouldn't have got so much flak. But you have to couch everything in your terms and expect everyone to just buy in, when you are already making an opinion in a passive aggressive way, then totally getting your back up when it is pointed out. You're just not as unbiased as you think you are.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

keto said:


> You created the problem with option #3. If it was just 'which sound in this video do you prefer', you wouldn't have got so much flak. But you have to couch everything in your terms and expect everyone to just buy in, when you are already making an opinion in a passive aggressive way, then totally getting your back up when it is pointed out. You're just not as unbiased as you think you are.


That's my issue, there's clearly an agenda with the post so why not make a post about his opinion? You can't make a discussion thread with a poll, then say no one is allowed to point out issues with the poll. Especially when it's based off a silly video like that. Well, you can make that type of post, but then don't be surprised when there is a ton of flack for it.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

keto said:


> You're just not as unbiased as you think you are.


Yes, that is one of the very irksome traits, IMO. He seems to think he sits on high and looks down at us with his hard-earned knowledge. We are the unwashed, the marketed to, the ignoramusi. 

Remember that thread years ago about how much marketing influences us. He claimed he was 100% unaffected by marketing. And yet, he is by the far the most marketed-to person on this forum. He can't get far enough away from his own opinion to be in any way objective of it, or anything else. And that makes some of his threads particularly silly/humorous/cringe-worthy.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

and a feast for trolls. lol


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

vadsy said:


> I can smell these pickups.


LOL...that was a coffee-spitter.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

LanceT said:


> You may no longer be visible to certain people.


Ah...


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

vadsy said:


> I can smell these pickups.


You should make a YouTube video about pickup smells.


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