# Eighty Seven takes



## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

I just recently started watching Season 4 of David Lettermans show "My Next Guest Needs No Introduction." In episode one he talks to Billie Eilish and in this particular clip, Billie and her brother Finneas talk about the layers they used on a song called "Happier Than Ever". That's a lot of takes.


----------



## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Billie is subcutaneous mass in my opinion. The cursive singing has to end:






Other than her, the show and entire line up of guests are fascinating and in many cases humbling people.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Always12AM said:


> Billie is subcutaneous mass in my opinion.


She looks like a fishing lure or something from Bill's Live Bait on the 400 cutoff at 89.


----------



## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Wardo said:


> She looks like a fishing lure or something from Bill's Live Bait on the 400 cutoff at 89.


She looks like if a fish and a midget had a baby and then that baby had two babies with lurch that decided to have a baby together and then feed it KFC for 34 years and then smash it’s face in with a hammer... In my opinion.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I really don't care what she looks like. The songs do nothing for me at all. Catchy? Maybe, but so is influenza.


----------



## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Wow! What a lot of hate. How on earth does it matter what a musician looks like. My wife has her latest album. Like a lot of music that is new to me it took a few listens before I understood it. It is actually pretty good. It is very different from what I would normally listen to but it is way better than 90% of the schlock they play on the radio these days. Her and her brother are obviously serious musicians who are in it for their art. I dare you to put your assumptions aside and listen seriously rather than dismissing it out of hand.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Kerry Brown said:


> Wow! What a lot of hate. How on earth does it matter what a musician looks like. My wife has her latest album. Like a lot of music that is new to me it took a few listens before I understood it. It is actually pretty good. It is very different from what I would normally listen to but it is way better than 90% of the schlock they play on the radio these days. Her and her brother are obviously serious musicians who are in it for their art. I dare you to put your assumptions aside and listen seriously rather than dismissing it out of hand.



Sorry Kerry, but I've given her enough of a listen to know it's uninspiring and boring to me. I agree, it doesn't matter what she looks like, but the songs are really blah. 

There are some current artists I enjoy, but she's not one of them. It's not a matter of "hate".


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

If she was male would we be commenting on his looks?


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Guncho said:


> If she was male would we be commenting on his looks?


We?


----------



## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Milkman said:


> Sorry Kerry, but I've given her enough of a listen to know it's uninspiring and boring to me. I agree, it doesn't matter what she looks like, but the songs are really blah.
> 
> There are some current artists I enjoy, but she's not one of them. It's not a matter of "hate".


Fair enough. It is not music I would buy but I stand by it is a serious attempt at creating something other than a hit radio song.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Kerry Brown said:


> Fair enough. It is not music I would buy but I stand by it is a serious attempt at creating something other than a hit radio song.



Well you may be right, but because I found the music boring and uninteresting, I really didn't try to figure out what she was going for. Even Katie Perry has songs I like.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Milkman said:


> We?


Some people.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Guncho said:


> Some people.


And for what it's worth, I wholeheartedly agree, but that extends beyond male and female. I've thought about creating a CGI band where the music is judged solely on itself and not on a youthful or beautiful (by which standards?) image.

One wonders how many brilliant musicians packed it in because they didn't have a look that captured the mass audience.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Milkman said:


> And for what it's worth, I wholeheartedly agree, but that extends beyond male and female. I've thought about creating a CGI band where the music is judged solely on itself and not on a youthful or beautiful (by which standards?) image.
> 
> One wonders how many brilliant musicians packed it in because they didn't have a look that captured the mass audience.


----------



## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

Kerry Brown said:


> Fair enough. It is not music I would buy but I stand by it is a serious attempt at creating something other than a hit radio song.


Yup, we like what we like.

I personally think Billie and Phineas are the real deal. There's a solid understanding of harmony and melody that isn't common in a lot of pop music these days. 

Just an observation: the general public scrutinizes vocalists the same way some guitarists scrutinize other guitarists. And then they're mystified as to why it's 87 takes for a vocal comp. For someone who really cares about their craft and knows it's for keeps, it's not all that surprising. (Anyone who's ever comped a vocal knows how tedious it is.)


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Grab n Go said:


> Yup, we like what we like.
> 
> I personally think Billie and Phineas are the real deal. There's a solid understanding of harmony and melody that isn't common in a lot of pop music these days.
> 
> Just an observation: the general public scrutinizes vocalists the same way some guitarists scrutinize other guitarists. And then they're mystified as to why it's 87 takes for a vocal comp. For someone who really cares about their craft and knows it's for keeps, it's not all that surprising. (Anyone who's ever comped a vocal knows how tedious it is.)


There's just something about the vocal style that's so lethargic and droopy. It reminds me of Lorde and dozens of other singers. It almost sounds like they're on opiods or some other sleepy drug. I want to nudge them to wake them up.

But, I also don't get hip hop or rap, so maybe it's just my turn to tell the kids to get off my lawn.


----------



## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Don't think it matters what they look like or how many takes they do. Some musicians and producers have enough OCD to end up with what they think may be perfection - others don't really finish, they abandon their work because they're forced to by cost or time constraints.

Kubrick used to have over a 100 takes for his scenes that people thought was almost cruel exhausting his actors. But he wanted to make exactly what he wanted and his effort paid off in some of the best movies ever produced.


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Kerry Brown said:


> Fair enough. It is not music I would buy but I stand by it is a serious attempt at creating something other than a hit radio song.


I hate the shit, my 8 year old plays it constantly but what I can openly admit is that she has more talent than I do and it takes a lot of it to create what she has. 

I can appreciate a lot of things I dont like.


----------



## ykram57 (May 25, 2008)

Ah, such eloquence as per usual…


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Someone on here said that Steve Tyler looks like your best friend's mom who used to let y'all drink and smoke dope in the basement when you were underage.. lol

As for the subject of this thread I can't see getting all virtue and preachy about it.


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Wardo said:


> Someone on here said that Steve Tyler looks like your best friend's mom who used to let y'all drink and smoke dope in the basement when you were underage.. lol
> 
> As for the subject of this thread I can't see getting all virtue and preachy about it.


Both of those statements ring true.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Guncho said:


>


This one's pretty cool.








Wardo said:


> Steve Tyler looks like your best friend's mom


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Wardo said:


> Someone on here said that Steve Tyler looks like your best friend's mom who used to let y'all drink and smoke dope in the basement when you were underage.. lol


OMG - you know June?


----------



## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Milkman said:


> And for what it's worth, I wholeheartedly agree, but that extends beyond male and female. I've thought about creating a CGI band where the music is judged solely on itself and not on a youthful or beautiful (by which standards?) image.


Don Kirshner already did this. They were called The Archies, and they had the biggest hit single of the year in 1969.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul M said:


> Don Kirshner already did this. They were called The Archies, and they had the biggest hit single of the year in 1969.


Yup, it has been done before. Animated characters live forever.


----------



## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

Kenmac said:


> I just recently started watching Season 4 of David Lettermans show "My Next Guest Needs No Introduction." In episode one he talks to Billie Eilish and in this particular clip, Billie and her brother Finneas talk about the layers they used on a song called "Happier Than Ever". That's a lot of takes.


This is nothing new with the advancement of digital recording. However, it can sometimes be a bit of a crutch for vocalists to lean on. Instead of practicing the vocal to the point of perfecting it in an attempt to perform it A to Z many singer now just rely on the wizardry of cut/ paste. comp, etc.,ect.. What happens when you have to perform it live?,... hmmm,... reach for the Autotune hardware or software to make sure it sounds in pitch, 

When analog tape was the main recording median the vocalists aspired to nail the performance in one take and doubling the vocal was used to thicken up the vocals. Using the editing tape block on the 24 track machines can be a pain in the butt,... so optimum performance was always encouraged.

When I'm recording artists whether instruments or vocals I always try to nudge them in the direction of learning and perfecting their parts in an attempt to get it down in one take,... or at least to the minimal amount of takes to decrease the amount of comping. The more talented and seasoned musicians usually never have to much difficulty in achieving the best take in one or two tries.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Autotune sucks.


----------



## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

Wardo said:


> Autotune sucks.


Agreed, every now and then I get asked by potential clients, "do you have the Autotune plugin or hardware?". My answer is always, "nope". Either you can sing in pitch or you can't,... and if you can't, well,...perhaps it's time to consider an alternative craft for a career.

And if someone ever asked me to use it on their guitar tracks,... I would kindly escort them out the door, lol.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

BlueRocker said:


> OMG - you know June?


Yeah, she worked at the weigh scales down at the dump .. lol


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Midnight Rider said:


> Either you can sing in pitch or you can't,... and if you can't, well,...perhaps it's time to consider an alternative craft for a career.


I was gonna say pretty much the same thing but held back because I'm just a red neck hillbilly singer with songs about cracked windshields, broken motors, busted lives, crystal meth and a gutted deer hangin from an oak...lol


----------



## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

Wardo said:


> I was gonna say pretty much the same thing but held back because I'm just a red neck hillbilly singer with songs about cracked windshields, broken motors, busted lives, crystal meth and a gutted deer hangin from an oak...lol


Yeah,... but if it's real world authentic and from the heart,...it gets a pass in my books. I never held it against Neil Young lol,...as he always delivered the raw emotion that the average Joe could relate to. Rather be in a roomful of red neck hillbillies than a roomful of obnoxious citiots,... but that's just me.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Midnight Rider said:


> This is nothing new with the advancement of digital recording. However, it can sometimes be a bit of a crutch for vocalists to lean on.


----------



## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

Okay, I've added a poll to this topic.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

First, the music style in general does nothing for me, the video in post number 2 makes my case without further keystrokes.

Second, the physical appearance of the artist should not and does not matter. Check your own gene pool.

Third, 87 takes is a waste of chronological time and performance spirit. Takes should be complete at best, or at worst divided by the natural larger divisions of the music, ie verse, chorus, line, phrase. Splicing together words and syllables isn't capturing an inspired performance of skill, ability, and delivery. It's a pitch Lego. A huge part of musical training involves the development of phrasing, legato, pitch, articulation, and interpretation. Starting with "fix it in the mix" is taking something undesirable and making it the standard by default.


----------



## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

laristotle said:


>


Absolutely nails how the music industry has lowered the bar of what qualifies as talent in some cases knowing the engineering technology is there to paint a false layer of perfection to an otherwise unacceptable attempt of posing as a vocalist,... frick'n priceless piece of video, 🤣 . I'll surely be posting this on other sites when the conversation call for it.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Midnight Rider said:


> I'll surely be posting this on other sites when the conversation call for it.


Here's another that you can use.


----------



## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

Kenmac said:


> I just recently started watching Season 4 of David Lettermans show "My Next Guest Needs No Introduction." In episode one he talks to Billie Eilish and in this particular clip, Billie and her brother Finneas talk about the layers they used on a song called "Happier Than Ever". That's a lot of takes.


Sorry...84 takes, or 84 tracks?

84 tracks...well, thats the digital world we live in...most likely one track has A word, or a quick clip

84 takes...well...thats looking for perfection with your good eye closed...i think the most takes has been a dozen trying to get a solo i was happy with...further, 9 times out of 10 i choose the first one


----------



## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

ezcomes said:


> Sorry...84 takes, or 84 tracks?
> 
> 84 tracks...well, thats the digital world we live in...most likely one track has A word, or a quick clip
> 
> 84 takes...well...thats looking for perfection with your good eye closed...i think the most takes has been a dozen trying to get a solo i was happy with...further, 9 times out of 10 i choose the first one


87 takes. I don't know how many tracks they used.


----------

