# Buying a Used Acoustic online - Risky Business?



## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I've been shopping for a good quality/good sounding (Taylor) 12 string cutaway. 

I wouldn't mind going with used, certainly get more bang for my buck - for example, get a 300 series for the price of a new 200 series, etc. but at what risk? With a quality instrument like a Taylor, is there still a chance of getting a dud? 

Has anyone been there/done that?


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## nnieman (Jun 19, 2013)

I've bought 2 sight unseen and had good luck.

I usually arrange shipping myself & get ups to pick it up from the seller.

Depends on how much you're spending, I think I'd have a really hard time stopping more than a grand without playing it.

Nathan


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Pretty hard to go wrong with Taylor. I bought one used and made out ok. Everything was as described except the fret wear but I still saved a bundle. Have the seller pull the strings aside and take a good pic. Taylor's have bound necks, but they are removable which luthiers like. One other thing. He admitted the handle on the case was loose (a known Taylor problem). I had a local luggage repair place re-rivet the handle for $15. Stronger than new and will NEVER wear out now.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

nnieman said:


> I've bought 2 sight unseen and had good luck.
> 
> I usually arrange shipping myself & get ups to pick it up from the seller.
> 
> ...


I would be spending a little more than a grand. Somewhere between $1500 and $2000 most likely. As much as I'd like to shop locally, stores just don't keep a lot of 12 string inventory. Specially in the mid-range where I'm looking.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

If you're comfortable buying sight unseen and shipping, go for it! The market sure opens up if you look around. I'm still hesitant and resistant to the idea but the more folks that participate with a positive outcome the more I'd warm up to it.


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## Blind Dog (Mar 4, 2016)

Two Martins, a Gibson, a Larrivee, and several vintage Yamaha -- two from Reverb, two from kijiji, two from guitar forum classifieds, and one vender's used section (web). *'s all good.* 

Common sense, and lack of greed will likely get you thru just fine. Ask polite questions, get thorough pic's (blurry/low res' is a red flag), and listen to your gut. Maintenance & repair history are things to remember to ask about. And play ability/action at 12th.

Too good to be true often is. I like to keep to emails for reference, but a quick phone call can be helpful too. Any high-end guitar that's a steal warrants caution. Half retail is good, and what I look for. Those desirable Martins/Gibsons/Collings/Taylors? for 1/3 retail often make my _spidey senses_ tingle. If you're not out to rip somebody off, price wise, there's less chance you'll be. Good deals abound presently. Market's very soft imo. I've never had a guitar shipped in dead of winter btw. 

Shipping/packaging can be downright scary. Experience is a plus. And that's where asking questions comes in. Get a feel for the seller. (I send pic's of packaging for buyers approval/peace of mind.)

The local 'chain' discourages/refuses (folks that look like me anyways from) trying their guitars. I was forced to adapt. I've done very well. And I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box. 

I've sold (kijiji) both Martins, and both buyers were very happy with the shipping, and value. I still get occasional updates, Youtube videos, and thank yous. 

*The very best of luck in your quest!* 

(Oh, and _if_ cross-border shipping? Know your woods, and check on CITES reg's. It's not just rosewood -- mahoganies, ebony, and others too -- not just main woods but bridges/fb etc. too. Another good reason to look first in Canada. International purchases would really benefit from an experienced seller, and your own due diligence.)

I'll shut up now.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2017)

I would never buy a guitar without playing it.

If you can get a money back return deal if you're not happy then perhaps, but it will cost you shipping both ways to try out a guitar.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

When looking for my "forever guitar" i fell in love with the new version of the Martin D-18 but couldn't afford a new one. I watched Kijiji religiously for a local deal like a hawk for months with no luck. Starting looking North America wide and one was for sale in BC. Seller didn't have a paypal account so I was pretty hesitant but I talked to him on the phone and scoped him out online and my gut said yes so I went for it. Seller said for shipping he would just duct tape the handles of the case. NOOOOOO!!!! I advised him on how to package it properly and he was happy to do so. I email transferred over $2k to him and crossed my fingers. Tracked the package across the country and one day it arrived. I let it acclimatize for a day before opening the case and once I did it was still in tune and all good!

So obviously this was one experience and it could have been a scam or the guitar could have had problems. Lucky for me neither was the case.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I would try the for sale ads here or on the Acoustic Guitar Forum if I was spending over $1000.00. I have no problem buying electrics online or less expensive acoustics but at that price, I wouldn't want to get a dud that someone is trying to unload. Many acoustic aficionados are selling good acoustics because they want to buy something else. They are great guitars, the seller simply wants to buy something different. For sight unseen, I would try to find that kind of a seller and I have seen a number of them over at AGF.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Thank you for the comments everyone. Lot of good info. Never thought about about CITES getting in the way with ebony. That's a game changer.

What about buying used from an online guitar store/dealer rather than a private seller? Does that change anything at all? better? worse?


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Can I see some documentation on ebony being subject to Cites. First I've heard of it. Got an ebony PRS a while back no hassle whatsoever. I also thought PRS was investing in ebony plantations to avoid the whole rosewood fiasco.


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## nnieman (Jun 19, 2013)

BSTheTech said:


> Can I see some documentation on ebony being subject to Cites. First I've heard of it. Got an ebony PRS a while back no hassle whatsoever. I also thought PRS was investing in ebony plantations to avoid the whole rosewood fiasco.


New rules for ebony trade: fingerboard and tailpiece wood will be subject to CITES restrictions

Nathan


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## nnieman (Jun 19, 2013)

not sure of that's proposed regulations or has actually changed.

Stewmac is still offering shipping ebony to Canada 

stewmac.com

Nathan


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## Blind Dog (Mar 4, 2016)

BSTheTech said:


> Can I see some documentation on ebony being subject to Cites. First I've heard of it. Got an ebony PRS a while back no hassle whatsoever. I also thought PRS was investing in ebony plantations to avoid the whole rosewood fiasco.


'Ebony' is included in Appendix II.

The genus (scientific name) is Diospyros.

The CITES Appendix II for Diospyros is here.

Nobody is targeting/restricting private guitar players. Permits are required tho, and I would recommend. I would not advise somebody to risk delays, fines, or seizures. Your PRS was likely at some risk.

Pick the wrong species, within a genus, and you will likely lose the guitar -- if it's Appendix I, and lacking proper permit.

*I'm no expert.* As I understand it Appendix I is prohibited (but you can apply for an exception under certain criteria), and Appendix II is only regulated.

Stewmac is likely adept with permitting. Just a guess tho.

EDIT: and I'm not saying none of the species, within the Diospyros genus, is not included in Appendix I -- I'm only saying, '_I don't know of any._' Really don't have the time to go thru that many pages. Buyers need to take their time, and be comfortable with their own guitar's specific materials.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Well shiiiyet. I guess I'll have to go back to walking guitars across the border again.


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## albert (Apr 15, 2009)

I just bought a 1979 Ramirez 1a 10 string guitar from Cathedral guitars through epay as an early retirement present to me. It has a large 3 1/3" ebony finger board and the back and sides are solid EIR. I emailed them whether there would be a problem with CITES in shipping it from the states to Canada and they stated that they have shipped guitars recently to Canada with no problems. It still makes me nervous so I will be anxiously waiting for the next two weeks for her to arrive. Hopefully for me the restrictions are on new instruments and not almost 40 year old ones.


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## SteveS (Apr 25, 2006)

I bought a 12 string Taylor 856CE used from the States last December, just before the Jan 1/2017 CITES deadline for Rosewood. Very lucky to find it as many of the dealers I contacted wouldn't ship it to me due to the CITES issue.
It's possibly the most beautiful sounding/looking guitar I've ever played, and I've played/owned a bunch. Just a wonderful instrument... 

I've also bought a Taylor 814 CE, Martin HD28-V, Ramirez 4N-CWE, and a Collings CJ sight unseen. No issue with any of them.

I think it all boils down to your gut. I was looking at one 856CE at a dealer and happened to notice what looked like a little crack in the top. You had to look the right way to see it. I emailed the shop and sure enough it was a fairly large crack. It wasn't disclosed in the ad.

Ask for lots of pictures.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm still looking at it every day. Only 4 days left in the auction........time to sh1t or get off the pot. The one I'm after is a 2 year old Taylor 365CE, and it's approx. $500 US less than the new price. Seems to be very well taken care of, the guy has all good feedback too. I wish there was a 365 in stock around here someplace I could hear and compare to 254.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lincoln said:


> I'm still looking at it every day. Only 4 days left in the auction........time to sh1t or get off the pot. The one I'm after is a 2 year old Taylor 365CE, and it's approx. $500 US less than the new price. Seems to be very well taken care of, the guy has all good feedback too. I wish there was a 365 in stock around here someplace I could hear and compare to 254.


Whats a Taylor 365. I couldn't find that model on Taylors site?


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

guitarman2 said:


> Whats a Taylor 365. I couldn't find that model on Taylors site?


dyslexia R us....... 356CE is what I'm looking at. Slightly larger "grand symphony" body that I think should add some bottom end.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lincoln said:


> dyslexia R us....... 356CE is what I'm looking at. Slightly larger "grand symphony" body that I think should add some bottom end.


If you like bottom end wouldn't a dreadnought be better? Little more volume as well. The Taylors I've played haven't really been known for their bottom end but I thought a dreadnought would be the best for the most bass.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

guitarman2 said:


> If you like bottom end wouldn't a dreadnought be better? Little more volume as well. The Taylors I've played haven't really been known for their bottom end but I thought a dreadnought would be the best for the most bass.


the only Taylor dreadnought stocked around here is a 100 series.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lincoln said:


> the only Taylor dreadnought stocked around here is a 100 series.


I played a 110 in a music store many years ago and for an entry level guitar I was impressed. Of course if you're after an all solid wood guitar that won't help you. It sucks when you haven't got the guitars around to try first hand. I've ordered 2 new guitars online. One I ended up selling and the other I'll likely have till I die.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

guitarman2 said:


> I played a 110 in a music store many years ago and for an entry level guitar I was impressed. Of course if you're after an all solid wood guitar that won't help you. It sucks when you haven't got the guitars around to try first hand. I've ordered 2 new guitars online. One I ended up selling and the other I'll likely have till I die.


That's the problem. There are very few mid-range 12 strings hanging on the walls. I know where there's a 360E (mahog/sapele) I can try out, and it's in my price range. Thanks for your thoughts on this, it helps.


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## albert (Apr 15, 2009)

I received my Ramirez guitar last week without any problems with CITES over the ebony fingerboard or rosewood back and sides. USPS and Canada post delivered it without any damage and quickly. I didn't even pay duty but I did pay tax.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Good luck with that Dave. Hope you get a good one. I was going to suggest actually talking to and possibly meeting with the seller, but I guess it won't pan out in your case. I've found that you can gleen a lot about a used instrument just by talking to the person selling it and asking the right questions. I know you're a good judge of character from my own experience with you.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

@Dorian2 Thanks Pete! I'm letting this 356ce Taylor go by and shop local instead. Probably my last big musical purchase before I retire, I don't want to risk getting caught with a dog. Any 12 strings hanging on the wall where you work?  

I'll just pick a store, plunk down a deposit to bring in what I think I want, and if I don't like it, hopefully they'll be willing to bring something else in for me.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Lincoln said:


> @Dorian2 Thanks Pete! I'm letting this 356ce Taylor go by and shop local instead. Probably my last big musical purchase before I retire, I don't want to risk getting caught with a dog. Any 12 strings hanging on the wall where you work?
> 
> I'll just pick a store, plunk down a deposit to bring in what I think I want, and if I don't like it, hopefully they'll be willing to bring something else in for me.


Not much for good 12 strings there Dave. Good luck in finding one though.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

I bought my first pricy guitar (Taylor 510) brand new, full price ! Never did that again because I moved, but also because guitars may sometimes be negociated like a car, and most of all, learned how to buy great used guitars.

As I moved out of a Quebec ciry, I began to shop online (eBay, then reverb). My main moto is photos, photos, photos ! First of all, you have to know what to look for. So you have to see all the guitar but particularly the first frets (used ?), the sound hole (crack besides the neck ? there are a bunch on eBay ! ), bridge laterally (nut shaved flush to the bridge ? because it actually needs a neck reset) and from bottom (too much bulging and taking off ?), lateral views of the neck to the body for string action (neck reset).

I bought a dozen guitars without any problem, namely LaPatrie Etude (Godin), Ramirez R-4, Gibson LG-0 1965 (all mahogany), Guild F-30SB 1973, Martin 000-15, Martin 000-18 2014, Taylors GS-5 and 512 (1995), Larrivées L-03 koa and OM-09 (usa) and never really regretted though I received the 000-15 only in her case, but she perfectly survived the trip. All other guitars were perfectly boxed.

I have seen more major defects on new guitars for sale in stores than on those I bought on eBay, provided my photo addiction !

I paid market price for the oldies, but some 60 to 80 % of brand new ones for the youngers. Most came from US, so I had to take into account money exchange rate (taxes are the same as at stores though eBay Global Shipping System seems to take only 9% instead of 15%).

Now, CITES limits my apparent GAS. I learned about it through Wood & Steel (Taylor co) and Bluedog guitars from Vancouver. Producers and retailers get a licence covering all their business. Individual licence would apparently precludes importation through eBay because the period to get the licence would exceed eBay transaction delay. One may take a chance that canadian customs overlook the mahogany bridge of their guitar... I am no longer considering importation from U.S since my herd is now quite well staffed and I came back nearby Quebec city and can buy locally.

Note : I sold many of my axes (because they finally did not suit me well enough and found more appropriate ones) : they were all bought by fellow canadian cirizens (none went back in USA.).

Hope my experience may help... ;-)


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## JethroTech (Dec 8, 2015)

I'm wrestling with the exact same thing. My dream acoustic (and one I might never see again) is currently posted for sale here on GC but I'd need to have it shipped. I've bought at least 15 electric guitars long distance and haven't had a single bad experience. Acoustics, on the other hand, just seem too delicate to box up and ship across the country especially now that it's full-on winter here on the frozen tundra.

Well, I should head 'er. Gotta go look at the acoustic pics in the For Sale section


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

JethroTech said:


> I'm wrestling with the exact same thing. My dream acoustic (and one I might never see again) is currently posted for sale here on GC but I'd need to have it shipped. I've bought at least 15 electric guitars long distance and haven't had a single bad experience. Acoustics, on the other hand, just seem too delicate to box up and ship across the country especially now that it's full-on winter here on the frozen tundra.
> 
> Well, I should head 'er. Gotta go look at the acoustic pics in the For Sale section


Acoustics are packed up and shipped across the country everyday. I had 2 shipped from Florida to southern ontario. I do agree with you about having them shipped during the winter but many people have done this succesfully. They just don't take it out of the case for a few hours until they warm up.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

guitarman2 said:


> Acoustics are packed up and shipped across the country everyday. I had 2 shipped from Florida to southern ontario. I do agree with you about having them shipped during the winter but many people have done this succesfully. They just don't take it out of the case for a few hours until they warm up.


Good point. Every acoustic in every music store in Canada has been shipped at some point in its life. For sure in a case, and the case in a good box should take care of it.

Story time....... years ago my wife ordered me a resonator for Christmas. Opened my gift, and the neck was broken at the body. And I'm looking at this broken guitar, trying to be excited when I really wanted to puke.....it was not a good scene. However, I don't think it happened in shipping. The seller never admitted to it, but I'm pretty sure someone shipped a broken/return guitar by accident. It was even missing the bridge.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Ah that great H&D eh ?! Same dilemma for me !
And a Martin CEO-7 in Ontario on reverb and eBay...
I was told that Martin does not ship up here in Quebec from mid-Fall to spring. 
My Guild F-30 finish apparently suffered from a cold weekend in storage...

I am now quite reluctant to have an acoustic travel under cool weather.


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## -How- (Dec 31, 2017)

I would personally never again buy a guitar online without playing it.

Firstly, even "name brand" guitars are all different from one to the next... a classic Martin or Taylor, though it has an intrinsic value because of it's lineage, still might not have the kind of sound that you are looking for, or as good as your buddy's Taylor or Martin or whatever, for instance.
Also, I have been burned in the past with the condition of the guitar being 'not as advertised', even though photographs were shown prior to purchase. 
One even arrived with a cracked neck - a part of the guitar that wasn't photographed... hmmm! !&&^%@%^&

At the very least ensure that any shipment is fully insured.


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## Gary787 (Aug 27, 2011)

I have 2 things to add.
1. I can honestly say I've sold lots of guitars on line and every single person got a great guitar at a reasonable price. 
2. There is nothing special about me. 
Most people are honest but there are those that aren't. As long as you feel good about the sale and can get a hold of the seller by email and phone I think you'll be ok.


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## cdntac (Oct 11, 2017)

-How- said:


> I would personally never again buy a guitar online without playing it.


I don't think I could ever do it.

Before Xmas I went to LA Music looking for a LP R8/9. A guy -- whom I assume could have been the owner --- was hesitant to allow me to look at their stock (which they keep boxed up and had only taken them out for online pics).

He told me they sell mostly online, recently three to South America. I told him I could never buy one sight unseen/unplayed and he was still hesitant.

I had to tell him I had driven 2.5 hours to visit his store to possibly buy a LP and he was still hesitant as they could all be seen online.

Eventually he had someone open up some in the colour I was interested in.

There's no way I could spend $5G on a guitar sight unseen.


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## WhiteFalcon (Jun 9, 2015)

I love my Taylor 356ce. I've had it for about 7 years, and it just improves with age. The actions getting a bit high at the 12 fret, so I may need to get a neck reset in the future, but that's an easy job for an authorized Taylor tech. Still sounds amazing though. Good luck finding yours!


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

A neck reset is a last resort fix, not step #1 in fixing string height problems.


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## Casey86 (Jan 28, 2018)

Old thread but others thinking about buying guitars online I have a little experience.

Most recent is this Larrivee D40re which I just bought on Reverb. Larrivee's are consistent, so I tried a new one in the store and loved it. Found this one year old at exactly half the cost, to my door. It came from PEI in March so a lot of the way was -15 degrees. When arrived I noticed a gap under the heel which my other Larrivee's do not have. The Larrivee factory told me don't worry about it, humidity is the culprit and enjoy my guitar.

I have also bought an Alembic and old Fender bass with rosewood from the US. I shipped to Blaine and went over to pick it up. Paid all taxes at border and there was no cites issues. The instruments were perfect.

Guitars like acoustic Gibson & Martin are not as consistant in sound from one to another imho. I would want to play an old Gibson or be really confident it is good, before buying online. Electrics may be more consistent, sometimes not.

Edit: this is just my observation, and not meant as a slight on Gibson or Martin in any way


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Casey86 said:


> Old thread but others thinking about buying guitars online I have a little experience.
> 
> Most recent is this Larrivee D40re which I just bought on Reverb. Larrivee's are consistant, so I tried a new one in the store and loved it. Found this one year old at exactly half the cost, to my door. It came from PEI in March so a lot of the way was -15 degrees. When arrived I noticed a gap under the heel which my other Larrivee's do not have. The Larrivee factory told me don't worry about it, humidity is the culprit and enjoy my guitar.
> 
> ...


I understand about the Gibsons. I would love to have a hummingbird model but there seems to be some inconsistencies from what a number of buyers have reported, especially some of the older ones.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Casey86 said:


> Guitars like acoustic Gibson & Martin are not as consistant in sound from one to another imho. I would want play an old Gibson or be really confident it is good, before buying online. Electrics may be more consistant, sometimes not.


Agree with Gibson but not Martin. Very consistent, high quality production, IME.

Mind you this was from 30+ years ago when I was selling them to an occasional jam with friends or playing one in the store since then. Also, this goes back to when the cheapest Martin you could get was an 18-series (000-18 or D-18). So everything from there on up was very consistent. Even the Shenandoah series was really good (Nazareth assembly and finishing of Japanese components). 

Now there are cheaper Martins with flat finishes and cutaways and electronics and all sorts of stuff. It may be as you say with these newer series, but I haven't spent any time with them, nor have much interest in them. I still think the 18-series (maybe 15-series) on up is pretty good in general. Easily comparable with Larrivee.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

I would add that the level of your playing would get in the equation : a beginner/low level player may be pleased with any reknowned nice-sounding guitar, while advanced players will have a more critical hearing appreciation of tones and balance. Based on this criteria, while I did buy online better guitars than I already had, I become more reluctant to do so now.


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