# Which condensor mic



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I'm going to be buying a condenser mic for vocals and acoustic in the next week or 2 and have it narrowed to the following 3 Rode NT1, Audio Technica AT 4040 and Audio Technica AT4050.
I'd really like to get the best mic that I have a budget for and I have the budget for the AT4050 ($1,000). So I guess my question is, is it worth it to jump up from the more budget friendly Rode NT1 and AT4040?
Are there any other mics I should consider in the $1,000 range?


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## Alan Small (Dec 30, 2019)

will you ever use it in a live stage situation?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Alan Small said:


> will you ever use it in a live stage situation?



Never. I have mics for that. Strictly use for home recording of vocals and acoustic guitar.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

TLM 103


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## Alan Small (Dec 30, 2019)

I second @vadsy


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

Lots of options in that bracket. I love the TLM103 but I'm not sure you could find one for 1k?, I have a cheaper clone of a 102 and to me its a great mic too, at way less money - however I cant stand the screw in mount, and can be a bit noisy. 

I would add, for a different flavor, to consider getting a good clone of the AKG 414. Selectable patterns, low cut and a good pad, and uses a more standard shockmount size. I have one from Advanced Audio in BC and it is a very versatile mic. I highly recommend his mics, they certainly haven't left me wanting. Of course, most of my gear is amateurish, lol.

C


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

guitarman2 said:


> I'd really like to get the best mic that I have a budget for and I have the budget for the AT4050 ($1,000). So I guess my question is, is it worth it to jump up from the more budget friendly Rode NT1 and AT4040?
> Are there any other mics I should consider in the $1,000 range?


I've owned both the AT4047 and the NT1, and used both extensively. To my ears, the 4047 was leagues above the NT1, at least for what I was using them for. To this day, I regret selling 4047. I originally bought it new for nearly half of what it sells for new these days. 🤦‍♂️ That said, more important than specific mic choice will be room acoustics.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Shure KSM32. They are very honest mics, a big reason they are often seen on acoustic music festival stages.

You can get a pair used for your budget, and that opens up lots of options for stereo solo placement or for capturing ensembles.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Been doing some reading of all the suggestions. I think I'm going to explore this one further. Going for $1,565 at L&M. Would be the least I've gone over budget in a while.
Those who know me know that when I say the budget is $1,000 I mean $2,000.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

This thread has made me look at that TLM103.  

@guitarman2 The Neumann is probably the best alternative at that price range.


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## Alan Small (Dec 30, 2019)

LandM will pricematch and this is the AV Shop in Ontario


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

vadsy said:


> TLM 103





Alan Small said:


> *LandM* will pricematch and this is the AV Shop in Ontario



LandM?


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## Alan Small (Dec 30, 2019)

long and mcquade...guitarman2 said he is shopping there


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

sE Electronics RN17, I believe that L&M has them.


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

Shure KSM32: KSM32 - Cardioid Condenser Microphone (Charcoal or Champagne)









Shure KSM42: KSM42 - Large Dual-Diaphragm Microphone









Shure KSM44A: KSM44A - Large Diaphragm Multi-Pattern Condenser Microphone
I own this mic and can assure you that it will not disappoint. I find myself reaching for it on just about every session. It will produce a silky warm signal for vocals and guitar. It has a switchable Omnidirectional, Cardioid & Bidirectional pattern.

Here are a couple examples of this mic. The first is the KSM44A on the vocal track and the second track it was used on the acoustic guitars.


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https://soundcloud.com/rolltape-1%2Fso-did-you


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https://soundcloud.com/rolltape-1%2Fone-more-day


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Any opinions on the Rode NTK? From all the tube mics I've seen this one seems affordable?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I think I'm leaning towards the AT4050. Of all the reading and reviews (and I've done plenty) it seems a good all arounder mic. The TLM103 seems to be universally stated as "over priced". I get the assumption from all I've read that the AT4050 would do better in an untreated room better than the TLM 103.
With what I'd save by going the less expensive route I can pickup a Rode NT1a. It seems the universal opinion on that mic is that everyone should have one. I know the engineer used it on an acoustic recording I did and I was happy with the result.
There are so many various opinions on every mic and the fact that not every mic works on every source that its just dizzying. I got to jump in somewhere so I guess the AT4050 will be my starting point.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> Any opinions on the Rode NTK? From all the tube mics I've seen this one seems affordable?


I just returned a loaner I've had for the last few months. Good mic but I found it overly bright.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

guitarman2 said:


> I think I'm leaning towards the AT4050. Of all the reading and reviews (and I've done plenty) it seems a good all arounder mic.


If it's anything like the 4047 I had, you'll be very happy.



> The TLM103 seems to be universally stated as "over priced". I get the assumption from all I've read that the AT4050 would do better in an untreated room better than the TLM 103.


Honestly, outside of a well treated studio with high end preamps, I'm not sure the difference in quality would even be audible. Plus, whenever you're buying Neuman, at good percentage of the price is just in the brand name. They make great stuff for sure, but at a cost.



> With what I'd save by going the less expensive route I can pickup a Rode NT1a. It seems the universal opinion on that mic is that everyone should have one. I know the engineer used it on an acoustic recording I did and I was happy with the result.


Just be aware that it's a pretty bright mic. It is great for acoustics and many other applications. But, if you're a pretty sibilant singer, you will likely find it too bright/harsh. The NT1 is roughly the same price and has a more balanced response. Could just be me, but I find it much easier to add brightness to a guitar track than to reduce excessive sibilants on a vocal track.



> There are so many various opinions on every mic and the fact that not every mic works on every source that its just dizzying. I got to jump in somewhere so I guess the AT4050 will be my starting point.


Lol. Then I'll shut up now. I agree.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

jbealsmusic said:


> Just be aware that it's a pretty bright mic. It is great for acoustics and many other applications. But, if you're a pretty sibilant singer, you will likely find it too bright/harsh. The NT1 is roughly the same price and has a more balanced response. Could just be me, but I find it much easier to add brightness to a guitar track than to reduce excessive sibilants on a vocal track.


The NT1 is one I was considering. I would be buying the AT4050 for vocals and maybe guitar cab, possibly acoustic. The NT1A I'd have as mainly for my acoustic and to see what I else I could do with it as a second mic.
As I'm in the infancy of recording for me who knows what I'll end up adding or swapping out over the next few years. As I said I'm just jumping in. 
My buddy says I need a Rupert Neve DI box. As well he just bought a Lion Audio Bluey compressor. Ahhh Fuck this is worse than guitars\pedals and amps.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> I think I'm leaning towards the AT4050. Of all the reading and reviews (and I've done plenty) it seems a good all arounder mic. The TLM103 seems to be universally stated as "over priced". I get the assumption from all I've read that the AT4050 would do better in an untreated room better than the TLM 103.
> With what I'd save by going the less expensive route I can pickup a Rode NT1a. It seems the universal opinion on that mic is that everyone should have one. I know the engineer used it on an acoustic recording I did and I was happy with the result.
> There are so many various opinions on every mic and the fact that not every mic works on every source that its just dizzying. I got to jump in somewhere so I guess the AT4050 will be my starting point.


I'm not trying to sway you from the decisions you are arriving at but if you are already setting up a 4050 I'd skip the NT1 and get a pair of small condensers to record acoustic guitar with.

I also agree with jbeals in that the difference starts being noticeable when higher end mics are paired with higher end preamps. below 1000 bucks the difference is going to be minor.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> My buddy says I need a Rupert Neve DI box. As well he just bought a Lion Audio Bluey compressor.


no, you don't. he's just bragging about what he has. for what you are doing, outboard stuff isn't necessary


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

vadsy said:


> I'm not trying to sway you from the decisions you are arriving at but I'd skip the NT1 and get a pair of small condensers to record acoustic guitar with.
> 
> I also agree with jbeals in that the difference starts being noticeable when higher end mics are paired with higher end preamps. below 1000 bucks the difference is going to be minor.


What would be considered a high end pre amp? Supposedly the solid state logic preamps in my SSL2+ are supposed to be pretty good. Obviously at just $400 for the interface they probably wouldn't be considered high end.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

vadsy said:


> no, you don't. he's just bragging about what he has. for what you are doing, outboard stuff isn't necessary


Thank gawd. Although since he has the neve I'm hoping I can get to fool around with it.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> What would be considered a high end pre amp? Supposedly the solid state logic preamps in my SSL2+ are supposed to be pretty good. Obviously at just $400 for the interface they probably wouldn't be considered high end.


I'm not talking about the crazy stuff but using something like a Chandler or BAE or Vintech or Universal Audio with a 103 is going to be different than using a Focusrite with a 4050. In the end though, you still have to know how to run things from placement to eq. Outboard stuff like compressors and eq is cool but software plugins can do a great job.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

guitarman2 said:


> What would be considered a high end pre amp? Supposedly the solid state logic preamps in my SSL2+ are supposed to be pretty good. Obviously at just $400 for the interface they probably wouldn't be considered high end.


The preamps in those are great. You'll be fine with just that IMO.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

tracked some acoustic yesterday. I don't have the comparison but went with the pair of small diaphragm condensers rather than the single large diaphragm. sounded better and the C414xlii is no slouch. when I'm at home I use a pair of older Rode M3's (very affordable used) to a Focusrite to basically do the same thing, this isn't my setup

so a D28 with year old strings, Soyuz 013fet pair, Vintech 573's to the Apollo. a little compression, tape machine for saturation, bit of reverb and low pass eq


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https://soundcloud.com/tom-jones2012%2Facou


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Hoping to get AT4050 within 2 weeks. It will be another 2 or 3 weeks after that before I decide on a second mic for acoustic. So in the mean time I'll probably play around with the AT4050 on acoustic. 
It seems that small or medium condenser is a good way to go for acoustic so I'll be looking along those lines maybe.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Looks like the AT4050 is way back ordered at L&M and who knows when they'll get it. I'll wait for a while but I'd hate to get the Nuemann just because I couldn't get the one I wanted. But maybe. Want to get whatever I get at L&M so I have the generous return policy for 30 days.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> Looks like the AT4050 is way back ordered at L&M and who knows when they'll get it. I'll wait for a while but I'd hate to get the Nuemann just because I couldn't get the one I wanted. But maybe. Want to get whatever I get at L&M so I have the generous return policy for 30 days.


have you checked out the akg c214? On sale at L&M right now. Single pattern but same with the 103


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

vadsy said:


> have you checked out the akg c214? On sale at L&M right now. Single pattern but same with the 103


Thats pretty tempting. I think I'm going to wait for the AT4050. They are supposed to get supplies by April. I called Sherwood music in Kitchener and they're in the same boat. So likely everyone's in the same boat.
Burlington L&M and another L&M store has a used AT4050 but for only $160 less than new I think I'll wait till they come in.


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

vadsy said:


> I just returned a loaner I've had for the last few months. Good mic but I found it overly bright.


I have the Rode NTK and think the stock tube is inferior.I changed the tube using a Telefunken 7308(6922 replacement) NOS tube.The price was $400.00 and they a 10,000 hour minimum heater life. Also swapped out the capsule with an RK-12,... the mic will sound like you paid $3,000+ for it with these two mods.
Micparts: RK-12 Microphone Capsule
The previous two tracks I posted recorded with the NTK were done before the mods. The firs attached video shows the NTK with the 6922 tube swap which is essentially the same as a 7308 and the second shows a 6922 tube swap along with the RK-12 capsule swap.
Tube Swap: 



Tube & Capsule Swap:


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

not saying mods aren’t worth it but I’d probably just try a different mic


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

vadsy said:


> not saying mods aren’t worth it but I’d probably just try a different mic


In the past I've been a heavy modder of gear, mainly guitars and amps back in the 80's and 90's. After many years of high expectations and low yield results I've come to the conclusion that finding the right piece of gear as is returns greater results and satisfactory expectations. 
I wen through the same thing with high end audio gear. Buying a Rega RP3 turntable and spending hundreds on platter\sub platter upgrades and upgraded tone arm weights and wiring, then ending up with a turntable a couple up the line anyway.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

hey, I'm not saying you shouldn't do it but I probably won't.

I mod gear all the time but for me there exists a line where at some point the cost just outweighs my desire to. The NTK is one of those I'd probably sell for a differently voiced 700$ mic. I'd happily mod something like an Apex 415 if I thought I could improve it or get something different and cool. just like guitars, ..,I probably won't mod the $2000 Tele but I'd gladly do up a $400 MIM with some bolt-ons


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

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