# What size guitar do you really need?



## Nick Burman (Aug 17, 2011)

My wife wants me to build her a guitar. Since she has fairly small hands (her forefinger is the size of my little finger!) I was thinking a 7/8 size guitar would fit her. We've looked at various designs, and a Les Paul seems to be the winner. I'll lighten it up with chambers and lighter woods. Tone is not the ultimate consideration here - playability is paramount. 

What do people think of 7/8 size guitars? Is that a good ratio for a smaller model? The scale length would be around 20-21" . Or would just a smaller body work as well as a shorter scale length? The guitar has to be playable above everything else.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

It seems a smaller rounder short scale would be right, a jag or mustang perhaps - I think it has more to do with how you make the neck and the scale length.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

You could build a short scale Tele... Sue Foley ain't very big ...


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## Nick Burman (Aug 17, 2011)

I've never played a 24" scale. Is there enough difference to make it easier to play? Obviously I don't want it to feel like a toy, but just easier. Narrower neck would help too, I'm sure (1 1/2", 1 9/16"...?). If I make an LP, it won't be full weight. She likes my own-built 5 lb model, but my 9lb one is out of the question!
I didn't know who Sue Foley was. Now I do  That paisley tele looks a bit unwieldily on her doesn't it? I can't tell how big her hands are though. Some short people have bigger hands, like SRV.


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## hummingway (Aug 4, 2011)

Short scale means less tension on the strings and the frets are a little closer together. Fun for the whole family! It brings the first fret a little closer to the body too. I think a slimmer neck profile can help with hand size as well as a narrower fretboard.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Nick Burman said:


> That paisley tele looks a bit unwieldily on her doesn't it? I can't tell how big her hands are though. Some short people have bigger hands, like SRV.


My username is shoreytus ..I am a short guy .. I met her once .. and she's about the same height....

Have her try out a few Squires.. they have a smaller width neck and you can always shave the back of the neck down.


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## Nick Burman (Aug 17, 2011)

Good plan, Shoreytus. I have a Squier Tele, and another guitar with a 40mm wide neck. That should work. 
Does anyone know why 25 1/2" and 24 3/4" were chosen as scale lengths? I know PRS uses 25". Can a scale length be any number at all?


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Sure. I don't know why the 24 3/4" came about .. but there are fret calculators out there... 
http://buildyourguitar.com/resources/fretcalc/fretcalc.htm


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## hummingway (Aug 4, 2011)

There are many scale lengths used. A manufacturer standardizes for the sake of their jigs to some degree but scale length impacts tone and the power of the string. A very short scale gives you more high frequency, like a violin, a little longer you get a viola, cello and bass. In order for the guitar to have a tonal range characteristic of the instrument there are restrictions on the length. Too short and it's an alto guitar, too long and it's a tenor. A guitar maker has to decide then if he wants a longer string length giving the instrument better bass response and more power from a longer, higher tension string or the woodier sound of a shorter scale, low tension string. 

If you look at scale lengths of a variety of instruments you'll see they are quite divergent within that limited range that makes it a guitar.


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## Nick Burman (Aug 17, 2011)

I never thought of thinking about other instruments. Great answer, Hummingway. Considering the violin family makes a lot of sense. It gives me a whole new range of things to experiment with. 

Thanks Shoretyus. I usually use the Stewmac one. I print them out for reference in my woodshop so I don't drop something heavy on my iPad!


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## Rudder Bug (Nov 21, 2011)

Nice input Hummingway, thanks!

I've built two 24" scale and they are just great to me and my third project is on the way, whith the same scale. 

The difference in size isn't that much but it helps my medium-small hands to reach a little more frets. Here is a pic of them, along with my 25,5 standard Telecaster for comparision. As you can see, the 24 inchers are not that small, far from being a "toy guitar", but the 12th fret being 3/4" closer to the nut makes it a little easier for some strectchy jazz chords for instance.










That's the same scale than John Lennon's Rickenbacker in the early Beatles.










Hummingway is right, my two 3/4 scale guitars sound rather bright, but I like the voice.

Gilles


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## hummingway (Aug 4, 2011)

Rudder Bug said:


> Nice input Hummingway, thanks!
> 
> I've built two 24" scale and they are just great to me and my third project is on the way, whith the same scale.
> 
> ...


Nice guitars. Do you call them Rudderbuggers? :-D


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## Rudder Bug (Nov 21, 2011)

No, sorry Humminway but thanks for your comment!

I named them _Arctic Flying_. My life revolves around flying as you might have noticed.

When I don't fly I make guitars and vice-versa.

Gilles

Playing guitar is the best way to fly safely when the weather's crappy. :rockon2:


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## hummingway (Aug 4, 2011)

My rudders on a sailboat. Put the autopilot on and you play and sail!

View attachment 667


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

How about a terz guitar? 

21" scale


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

What a great pic!

One of my friends was looking for a similar guitar for his wife... but he ended up getting a bigger wife.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

hummingway said:


> My rudders on a sailboat. Put the autopilot on and you play and sail!


I never let go of the tiller..except to get a new beer  .... Captain .. what be the brand of that vessel?







[/IMG]


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## hummingway (Aug 4, 2011)

Cooper 416. Built in Vancouver in 1981. You're a sailor then?


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Nick Burman said:


> I've never played a 24" scale. Is there enough difference to make it easier to play? Obviously I don't want it to feel like a toy, but just easier. Narrower neck would help too, I'm sure (1 1/2", 1 9/16"...?).


My first guitar was a '73 Mustang and the slightly shorter 24" scale definitely made it easier to play (I'm a big guy with short fingers - - not Cee Lo Green small mind you). The strings are also a little slacker so she'll be able to make those Albert King monster bends. This being said, I would caution against making the nut too narrow. I believe my 'Stang was 1 1/2" and it was tricky to fingerpick and arpeggiate chords cleanly. Keep the neck medium or slightly thinner but I wouldn't have a nut any narrower than 1 5/8".


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

hummingway said:


> Cooper 416. Built in Vancouver in 1981. You're a sailor then?


Yup. Totally addicted. But being in Central Ontario I a limited to trailerable boats. I have a Sirius 21, which is the biggest that I can use locally. It gets me to some secret spots like ....

The local Tiki bar 









On this lake that my friends sail on.. ( note the lack of other boats or cottages)


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## Nick Burman (Aug 17, 2011)

I recently learned that Brian May's guitar has a 24" scale, so that would definitely be worth trying.


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## Rudder Bug (Nov 21, 2011)

Nick Burman said:


> I recently learned that Brian May's guitar has a 24" scale, so that would definitely be worth trying.


Absolutely, and the beauty of it is that Brian built his Special Red with his dad at teenage. My two last projects are 24" and I am currently building a third one. I just love that smaller scale and will stick to it. 

RB


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## Nick Burman (Aug 17, 2011)

Brian was my inspiration to build my first guitar, about 17 years ago. Always been a big fan of his, too. I can't wait to try a 24" scale out.


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## Spellcaster (Jan 7, 2008)

I'm a fan of short scales too. 

My two favourite Strat partscasters have 24 3/4" scale. Behind them you can see my 25 1/2" scale partscaster Tele bass











I recently converted my 24" scale CV DuoSonic to a 22 1/2" scale '65 Musicmaster II neck










I'm close to finishing a Tele La Cabronita Thinline with a 24" scale '71 Musicmaster neck


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## Nick Burman (Aug 17, 2011)

22 1/2"...wow...how is that to play? Do you ever have difficulties switching between scales, or no more so than the rest of us switching between Gibson and Fender scales?


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## Spellcaster (Jan 7, 2008)

I don't have any issues playing the 22 1/2" scale. I never venture beyond the 12th fret, and that may be part of it. I'm guessing it would get pretty cramped up at the top. I actually find it fairly easy switching between the 22 1/2", 24", and 24 3/4" scales. The 25" and 25 1/2" scale guitars are starting to feel too big to me. I find it al little tougher when I use different scaled basses....The 25 1/2" Tele is super comfortable for bass, and I'm okay with the 30 1/2", but the 34" Tele feels huge to me. When I use multiple basses at a gig, I _have to _watch my fingers. I'm currently restoring a vintage MIJ Rickenbacker 4001 clone with a 33 1/4" scale and I'm guessing it'll feel a little big, at least in the beginning.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

No steinberger love?


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## Nick Burman (Aug 17, 2011)

Love steinbergers! Ergonomically, headless guitars are it. Too many traditionalists think you need a headstock. I'm hoping to build one myself in a few months.


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## Rudder Bug (Nov 21, 2011)

I'd love to build one too. How do we do the machineheads?


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## hummingway (Aug 4, 2011)

Nick Burman said:


> Love steinbergers! Ergonomically, headless guitars are it. Too many traditionalists think you need a headstock. I'm hoping to build one myself in a few months.


It's been a lot of years since I played one. A friend had a strat style steinberger, headless strat that is, and it was a real pleasure to play.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

hummingway said:


> It's been a lot of years since I played one. A friend had a strat style steinberger, headless strat that is, and it was a real pleasure to play.


They're a bit like the homely but easy girl in high school.Lots of guys love playing steinbergers, but few wanted to be seen on stage with one


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## Nick Burman (Aug 17, 2011)

I think they have too much of an 80s look for many people. Not me, I don't care! But there are lots of people like Canton making gorgeous headless guitars. It all comes back to the general populace leading the market.


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## Rudder Bug (Nov 21, 2011)

I have a nice piece of one inch thick, old Ipe wood which is a hair too small for a Tele body or the like, but suitable for such a headless guitar project. I am after a travelling guitar that fits in a small plane, along with the pilot's bag. What's puzzling me most is the the tuning machines. Can anyone help?

Thanks.

RB


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## Spellcaster (Jan 7, 2008)

I've never seen a Steinberger guitar in the flesh, but I wonder if they use the Steinberger tuners that StewMac sells. They are wonderful tuners, by the way. I use them on all my builds.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Steinberger_Gearless_Tuners.html


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## hummingway (Aug 4, 2011)

Spellcaster said:


> I've never seen a Steinberger guitar in the flesh, but I wonder if they use the Steinberger tuners that StewMac sells. They are wonderful tuners, by the way. I use them on all my builds.
> 
> http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Steinberger_Gearless_Tuners.html


The headless guitars have the tuners out the tail, like a fine tuner.


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## Nick Burman (Aug 17, 2011)

Some luthiers have used Steinberger tuners for headless designs. They just go at the bridge end of the guitar. http://buildingtheergonomicguitar.com/2007/11/mash-acoustic-guitar.html


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