# Are we all ready for some healthy competition in the MP3 market?



## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/04/15/exclusive-lets-talk-some-zune-hd-specs


http://liveside.net/main/archive/2009/04/12/what-in-the-world-is-tegra.aspx


Lord knows we need some good iPod/iTouch market competition and I think Microsoft might finally be up for the challenge with their new player.

Some will say it's impossible to take a chunk out of Apples lead, but I say look at the Playstation, it was king like the iPod as well, not anymore.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I guess I'd have to have some sort of problem or complaint with my iPod before I bothered looking at something different.

Anyone trying to take a bite out of the Apple in that product line is a day late and a dollar short I think.


Frankly, with the possible exception of my Garmin GPS, I can't think of a device I've been more pleased with than my 80g iPod classic.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

My gf's dad just got a Zune. It's not the HD, it's the one that competes against the iPod Mini, but _man_ I gotta tell you, using that thing is sweet. The interface is wonderful and it seems like a really strong product.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

I've had every other kind of player on the market before settling on Ipod.......from a player standpoint - coupled with Itunes - there really isn't a better solution out there.......I use the wee little shuffle - but the rest of the family uses the nano - they're awesome


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

lbrown1 said:


> I've had every other kind of player on the market before settling on Ipod.......from a player standpoint - coupled with Itunes - there really isn't a better solution out there.......I use the wee little shuffle - but the rest of the family uses the nano - they're awesome


You owned the Zune? I have yet to find a person that has used one that liked the iPod better.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

I yearn for the day to be free of iTunes. I used to own a Cowon I-Audio M3, and I still think that's the slickest player I've had/seen. I loved the remote with LCD screen not to mention my favorite feature - using your mp3 player as an external disk drive! Natively! Without 3rd party apps! Putting stuff on and taking stuff off it was a breeze - way better than the cumbersome iTunes interface.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

hollowbody said:


> I yearn for the day to be free of iTunes. I used to own a Cowon I-Audio M3, and I still think that's the slickest player I've had/seen. I loved the remote with LCD screen not to mention my favorite feature - using your mp3 player as an external disk drive! Natively! Without 3rd party apps! Putting stuff on and taking stuff off it was a breeze - way better than the cumbersome iTunes interface.


I like the itunes interface....I like it better than the drag and drop external drive method

to each his own I guess


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> I yearn for the day to be free of iTunes. I used to own a Cowon I-Audio M3, and I still think that's the slickest player I've had/seen. I loved the remote with LCD screen not to mention my favorite feature - using your mp3 player as an external disk drive! Natively! Without 3rd party apps! Putting stuff on and taking stuff off it was a breeze - way better than the cumbersome iTunes interface.


From everything I've read Cowon makes some of the best sounding players. They don't cheap out on the internals. I looked long and hard at them before getting a Zune shipped up from the states.

The software interface is part of the reason we need some competition. Apple needs to shape up in this regard at the least and Microsoft might be the only company with the resources and expertise to do it.

Of course now I expect the normal Microsoft sucks at software comments... 

kqoct


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

lbrown1 said:


> I like the itunes interface....I like it better than the drag and drop external drive method
> 
> to each his own I guess


iTunes is head over heals better then Sony and Creative's offerings. But far from perfect.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

The problem is for the users that aren't that tech savvy, it's tough to beat the ease of use of the combination of an iPod, iTunes, and iTunes store. Literally, anyone can figure it out. My 60 year aunt who can hardly use a computer did. 

iTunes is a very well designed piece of software, and iPods are a well made product. So I fall into that camp as well that I see no reason to switch to something else.

For those of us who are tech savvy, there are a ton of 3rd party solutions to make your iPod appear as a disk if you don't want to use iTunes anyway. I personally like how organized my 80 GB of mp3's are in iTunes though. It's a much easier system.


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## Rumble_b (Feb 14, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I guess I'd have to have some sort of problem or complaint with my iPod before I bothered looking at something different.



My thoughts exactly! Never had one problem or complaint with my 80gb Classic.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

Whoever comes up with a way to make mp3s sound better might get my money. I took the train down to Windsor last weekend for Easter, and listened to my wife's iPod most of the way down. That's the most time I've spent listening to mp3s in my life. The crappy little headphones they come with may be somewhat to blame, but frankly the poor sound quality got in the way of enjoying the music. I used to listen to Walkmans quite a lot when I was younger. Carrying a couple of CDs or cassettes seemed like plenty of music for the hour or two I'd be listening to them. People seem to need to have thousands of songs at their immediate disposal these days, regardless of the sound quality. 

Shawn


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

I hate Itunes.... resent the act of loading a whole library into memory to play a few tunes. I much prefer just to drop and drag a folder on to a 'pod. The problem is that I haven't found a mp3 player that works for any length of time. 

Yeah there is a Ipod in the house but it didn't last that long either.... the original got sent to Ipod heaven in Texas somewhere.


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## lyric girl (Sep 4, 2008)

Apple rules!


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2009)

I'm all for it but I need more than just a player. I need the full player - desktop media app - store package. Otherwise me and the fam won't be able to use it. I don't want to play tech support to my wife, and with her iPod/itunes/iMac combo I don't have to it. It just works.


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## noobcake (Mar 8, 2006)

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" and as far as I can tell iPods aren't "broke". The only thing that ipods are missing that most other mp3 players have is FM radio.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

It's pretty sad when everyone wants to settle instead of have someone come put a fire under Apple's butt.

iTunes might work perfectly on the Mac as Ian mentions, but it is truelly a piece of crap on the PC.

Since there is no one else in the market to compare it to how would most know that though? The market is desperately in need of some competition.

.02


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

If you spend as much time travelling on the TTC in Toronto as I do, you notice things. The highest concentration of iPod users are female 12 to 25, I'm sure. I'd like to Microsoft or someone else crack that demographic.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Rugburn said:


> Whoever comes up with a way to make mp3s sound better might get my money. I took the train down to Windsor last weekend for Easter, and listened to my wife's iPod most of the way down. That's the most time I've spent listening to mp3s in my life. The crappy little headphones they come with may be somewhat to blame, but frankly the poor sound quality got in the way of enjoying the music. I used to listen to Walkmans quite a lot when I was younger. Carrying a couple of CDs or cassettes seemed like plenty of music for the hour or two I'd be listening to them. People seem to need to have thousands of songs at their immediate disposal these days, regardless of the sound quality.
> 
> Shawn


Decent earbuds make a HUGE difference. No it won't sound quite as good as a CD, but $30. on an upgraded set of ear buds is well worth it. I use Panasonics and they deliver a surprising amount of bottom end for such a tiny driver.

They're also much more comfortable than the stock Apple earbuds.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> It's pretty sad when everyone wants to settle instead of have someone come put a fire under Apple's butt.
> 
> iTunes might work perfectly on the Mac as Ian mentions, but it is truelly a piece of crap on the PC.
> 
> ...


I'm all for competition, but what's so bad about iTunes? I suppose it depends on what you want or expect it to do.


I buy a cd, pop it into the drive. iTunes automatically opens up, imports the disk and if I connect my iPod it syncs it automatically.

Perfect.

It's not broken. I don't need to fix it.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Decent earbuds make a HUGE difference. No it won't sound quite as good as a CD, but $30. on an upgraded set of ear buds is well worth it. I use Panasonics and they deliver a surprising amount of bottom end for such a tiny driver.
> 
> They're also much more comfortable than the stock Apple earbuds.


I can't do earbuds. I may look goofy but old school headphones all the way.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Milkman said:


> I'm all for competition, but what's so bad about iTunes? I suppose it depends on what you want or expect it to do.
> 
> 
> I buy a cd, pop it into the drive. iTunes automatically opens up, imports the disk and if I connect my iPod it syncs it automatically.
> ...


The bad part is it's an unnecessary middle-man for some users. I don't want to have to import music all the time because it takes forever, I'd rather just load a folder. I get new music all the time and to constantly have to open iTunes to import and transfer music over to my iPod is a hassle I'd rather not deal with.

Also, as a player, iTunes is crud too. It eats waaay too much RAM and doesn't support universal hotkeys, which is why I still prefer Winamp.

Finally, for ripping CDs, I'd rather use a piece of software that uses error-correction and compares rips to databank of other users' rips to ensure accuracy, like EAC or other programs, not some fly-by-night CD rip suite in iTunes that only lets you encode at something silly like 160kbps (I haven't checked in a while, they may have improved this).

Bottom line - _for me personally_ there are a host of other programs that fulfill iTunes' role better, faster, more intuitively and with more reliability and accuracy. I LOVE my iPod. I think the interface is slick and that it's a decent piece of kit. I _may_ try something else like the Zune when my iPod bites it, but I'll more likely buy another iPod. The hardware needs very little improvement, but the software is another story.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

I'm happy to see some competetion and I think the Zune is awesome If I didn't already have a NANO when I went shopping for a larger Mp3 player, I likley would have gotten the Zune. However, I already had a TON of my music converted and in iTunes so yes, I settled. It's worked out really well as I still use my NANO for Nike+ when running. As for eating up lots of space etc, it's a great thing that external's are so cheap now. I'm really happy with the system I have going on and the drag and drop is a no brainer. But Competetion is healthy for all no?


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I buy a cd, pop it into the drive. iTunes automatically opens up, imports the disk and if I connect my iPod it syncs it automatically.
> 
> Perfect.
> 
> It's not broken. I don't need to fix it.


Bingo! My feelings exactly. I've never had a problem with my IPOD Classic and I now have 4100 songs on there. 

I also don't mind running the iTunes software each time. I have no interest in figuring out hardware interfaces etc to know how Itunes does its thing. I like the fact that it loads easily and works on all of our PCs with everyones different IPOD model.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2009)

hollowbody said:


> The bad part is it's an unnecessary middle-man for some users. I don't want to have to import music all the time because it takes forever, I'd rather just load a folder. I get new music all the time and to constantly have to open iTunes to import and transfer music over to my iPod is a hassle I'd rather not deal with.


Yea, that middle man makes it easy for my wife though! And heck, for me too. I don't have to drag or drop anything. If I add music to iTunes, next time my iPod comes in to contact with my computer the new stuff is automatically sync'ed so I can listen to it on the road, and as it ages it disappears (unless I rate it highly, in which case it sticks around). There's far, far less interaction with _files_ in the iTunes/iPod flow and far more interaction with _music_. The key is understanding how it's not Winamp + Other Player.

But I'm not a fanboi here...it's taken time to learn it and not hate it (and I did when I first started out with an iPod...loved the player, hated the software). But...



> Also, as a player, iTunes is crud too. It eats waaay too much RAM and doesn't support universal hotkeys, which is why I still prefer Winamp.


...I still don't _love_ the iTunes player interface either. And when the wif had a PC it was, as you said, substantially worse -- slow and the cover flow mode would crash her computer. On the Mac you get global hotkeys for it. It is a much better experience on the Mac for sure aside from the memory it consumes (but the trade off is really fast searching of your library meta-data which I seem to do pretty often).



> Finally, for ripping CDs, I'd rather use a piece of software that uses error-correction and compares rips to databank of other users' rips to ensure accuracy, like EAC or other programs, not some fly-by-night CD rip suite in iTunes that only lets you encode at something silly like 160kbps (I haven't checked in a while, they may have improved this).


iTunes has an error correction option on the Mac. Has for a while now...since about v6'ish. And you can choose your encoder. Even ships with LAME. I rip to Apple Lossless now.



> The hardware needs very little improvement, but the software is another story.


Definitely agree that iTunes needs to get better. I personally think Apple kind of shelved it for a while there. The Genius feature has been the best new thing in what? Three years? Jeebus! (Mind you: Genius actually does work pretty well) But yea, of all the Apple programs I interact with iTunes has the clunkiest, least intuitive interface and actually took considerable, concentrated effort to learn. Not good.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2009)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> It's pretty sad when everyone wants to settle instead of have someone come put a fire under Apple's butt.


I agree. I actually would like to see an iTunes revolt to force Apple to improve it. They've not done much with the software side of things...to the point of near apathy. I think they see it as a necessary evil to shipping more hardware units. The Genius feature was the first new feature of note in _years_. Sad. And, for an Apple product, it has a pretty sub-standard UI.



> iTunes might work perfectly on the Mac as Ian mentions, but it is truelly a piece of crap on the PC.


Definitely when we went PC -> Mac iTunes got a whole lot more tolerable.



> The market is desperately in need of some competition.


Yup. Competition drives the innovation and Apple is definitely getting fat and lazy on their perch.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

iaresee said:


> iTunes has an error correction option on the Mac. Has for a while now...since about v6'ish. And you can choose your encoder. Even ships with LAME. I rip to Apple Lossless now.


What exactly that error correction is we don't know, Apple is closed lipped on it. From what I read it's a type of interpolation, works similar to hardware CD players. The guys on hydrogen audio forums indicate that it makes clicks and pops less pronounced.

I think we discussed it before but dbpoweramp and EAC have error detection. I'd much rather know when there is a problem then have the software try to mask the problem and not tell me about it.

But, this is a different discussion all together. :smile: Too bad the 2 afformentioned apps didn't work on OSX, I'm quite certain you'd really appreciate them especially if you are ripping to lossless.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2009)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> What exactly that error correction is we don't know, Apple is closed lipped on it. From what I read it's a type of interpolation, works similar to hardware CD players. The guys on hydrogen audio forums indicate that it makes clicks and pops less pronounced.


That's funny: I just assumed it was oversampling and never thought to ask what it was doing, exactly. :smile:



> Too bad the 2 afformentioned apps didn't work on OSX, I'm quite certain you'd really appreciate them especially if you are ripping to lossless.


There are alternatives to iTunes for the Mac. And they'll even import the ripped audio in to iTunes when they're done ripping. I'm just...lazy. :smile:


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> I can't do earbuds. I may look goofy but old school headphones all the way.


I prefer bigger phones, but I use the iPod to put me to sleep every night and earbuds are the only way I can sleep on my side and still use the pod.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> The bad part is it's an unnecessary middle-man for some users. I don't want to have to import music all the time because it takes forever, I'd rather just load a folder. I get new music all the time and to constantly have to open iTunes to import and transfer music over to my iPod is a hassle I'd rather not deal with.
> 
> Also, as a player, iTunes is crud too. It eats waaay too much RAM and doesn't support universal hotkeys, which is why I still prefer Winamp.
> 
> ...




I have no doubt that users requiring deeper editing and more technical functions may have use for a better system. For general use I find iTunes simple and it takes about two or three minutes to rip a cd. I buy one or two CDs a month and it's nothing to load the new stuff. 

As for audio quality, it sounds good to me. I suppose if I was to do an A - B test comparing it to something better I would hear the difference.

I've purchased three nanos (for my kids) and I have an 80g classic. It really seems easy to use the devices. The software seems very intuitive to me.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> The bad part is it's an unnecessary middle-man for some users. I don't want to have to import music all the time because it takes forever, I'd rather just load a folder. I get new music all the time and to constantly have to open iTunes to import and transfer music over to my iPod is a hassle I'd rather not deal with.
> 
> Also, as a player, iTunes is crud too. It eats waaay too much RAM and doesn't support universal hotkeys, which is why I still prefer Winamp.
> 
> ...


Just to clarify, there are dozens of 3rd party apps, most of them free, that allow you to drag and drop files right into your iPod without needing iTunes.

And you can encode however you want in iTunes at whatever bitrate you want. You can also install LAME into itunes in about 10 seconds. I even have a plugin now that lets me use Flac files in iTunes ( http://www.tuaw.com/2008/08/13/play-flac-in-itunes-with-less-mess/ ).

But again, you don't need to use it for ripping or it's library functions if you don't want to anyone. Just use one of the 3rd party apps mentioned for drag and drop if that is what you prefer, and rip with whatever you want. Takes iTunes right out the equation.

I don't mind people not liking ipods but in a lot of cases it seems people just don't research their product properly. I am amazed at how many people out there don't even know that you can change iTunes default settings to rip however you want. I swear some people don't even look at the preferences in the program. I am not claiming either are perfect by any means. I just think in tandem they are 'very good'.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

iaresee said:


> Yea, that middle man makes it easy for my wife though! And heck, for me too. I don't have to drag or drop anything. If I add music to iTunes, next time my iPod comes in to contact with my computer the new stuff is automatically sync'ed so I can listen to it on the road, and as it ages it disappears (unless I rate it highly, in which case it sticks around). There's far, far less interaction with _files_ in the iTunes/iPod flow and far more interaction with _music_. The key is understanding how it's not Winamp + Other Player.


See, I have a really large music collection, and I can't auto-sync, so I have my iTunes+iPod set to manually manage, because I have to pick and choose what goes on there and what doesn't. This makes it a gigantic PITA. Also, because my collection is so large, there are sometime albums I haven't heard in a while that I feel like loading on there. Deleting a folder and copying another over to replace it is through Windows Explorer is _way_ easier than through iTunes.



iaresee said:


> On the Mac you get global hotkeys for it. It is a much better experience on the Mac for sure aside from the memory it consumes (but the trade off is really fast searching of your library meta-data which I seem to do pretty often).
> 
> 
> iTunes has an error correction option on the Mac. Has for a while now...since about v6'ish. And you can choose your encoder. Even ships with LAME. I rip to Apple Lossless now.


Sounds like iTunes is a much better experience for Apple users, which makes sense, but is not going to sway me to purchase an Apple. It's a shame that they won't offer similar advantages to MS users.

Bottom line, it boils down to _how_ you use iTunes+iPod. For my purposes, there's room for improvement, but for someone who has a collection that does not grow enormously every week and can load it entirely on an iPod and not have to worry too much about managing files, then it's brilliant.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2009)

hollowbody said:


> See, I have a really large music collection, and I can't auto-sync, so I have my iTunes+iPod set to manually manage, because I have to pick and choose what goes on there and what doesn't. This makes it a gigantic PITA. Also, because my collection is so large, there are sometime albums I haven't heard in a while that I feel like loading on there. Deleting a folder and copying another over to replace it is through Windows Explorer is _way_ easier than through iTunes.


My collection doesn't fit on my Nano. It's all in how I have my smart play lists setup. I have a play lists that auto-syncs that holds everything added in the past two weeks. I have a play list that auto-syncs that holds a random 100 top-rated songs that haven't been played in the past 30 days. And so on. I sync those smart play lists and my Nano is always cycling through stuff I haven't heard, new stuff, etc.

Static play lists in iTunes flat out _suck_. They are a major PiTa to create, manage and sync. It's all about the smart lists for me. And occasionally a Genius-generated playlist.

Rating content and using smart play lists is the gateway to happy iTunes - iPod existence.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> Just to clarify, there are dozens of 3rd party apps, most of them free, that allow you to drag and drop files right into your iPod without needing iTunes.
> 
> And you can encode however you want in iTunes at whatever bitrate you want. You can also install LAME into itunes in about 10 seconds. I even have a plugin now that lets me use Flac files in iTunes ( http://www.tuaw.com/2008/08/13/play-flac-in-itunes-with-less-mess/ ).
> 
> ...


I've experimented with a few 3rd party apps and don't really like them. The last one I tried was Anapod, and I found it ok, but still wasn't too thrilled with it, and from what I understand, Anapod seems to generally be referred to as the best 3rd party app out there. Any other ones I should be looking at?

Similarly, I went browsing for a 3rd party app for global hotkeys, and found a couple that would suit what I was looking for, except my current keyboard doesn't support scripts, so there's no way for me to use the app I want at the moment. Good thing GST money just came in! I might go grab a new mouse and keyboard.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

iaresee said:


> Static play lists in iTunes flat out _suck_. They are a major PiTa to create, manage and sync. It's all about the smart lists for me. And occasionally a Genius-generated playlist.
> 
> Rating content and using smart play lists is the gateway to happy iTunes - iPod existence.


Except since I haven't been using iTunes as my go-to player, I haven't really rated much stuff. I don't even want to think of what it would take to go through everything and rate them now 

You're right about static lists, they are the absolute worst. The only time I use them is when I'm compiling set-lists for various cover acts I'm doing. Maybe I'll have to spend my next vacation doing some serious overhauling of my iTunes setup.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> Except since I haven't been using iTunes as my go-to player, I haven't really rated much stuff. I don't even want to think of what it would take to go through everything and rate them now
> 
> You're right about static lists, they are the absolute worst. The only time I use them is when I'm compiling set-lists for various cover acts I'm doing. Maybe I'll have to spend my next vacation doing some serious overhauling of my iTunes setup.


I doubt there will ever be a truelly good solution for the "Large" collection. The database implentations are never designed properly for the task.

I'm up to 62,000 tracks, 5000 discs, 1500 artists...


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> See, I have a really large music collection, and I can't auto-sync, so I have my iTunes+iPod set to manually manage, because I have to pick and choose what goes on there and what doesn't. This makes it a gigantic PITA. Also, because my collection is so large, there are sometime albums I haven't heard in a while that I feel like loading on there. Deleting a folder and copying another over to replace it is through Windows Explorer is _way_ easier than through iTunes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How big does your collection have to be before it won't fit on an 80gb iPod?

Of course, I realize there are 4 gb and 8gb nanos. I have every CD I own, about fifteen movies and a lot of jpeg pictures on mine and I think I've used around 10 or 11 gb. I'll never fill mine in a million years.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> I doubt there will ever be a truelly good solution for the "Large" collection. The database implentations are never designed properly for the task.
> 
> I'm up to 62,000 tracks, 5000 discs, 1500 artists...




HOLY CRAP!!!

5000 disks? Have there even been that many recorded?


I may have 200 ~ 250. I don't keep track.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Milkman said:


> How big does your collection have to be before it won't fit on an 80gb iPod?
> 
> Of course, I realize there are 4 gb and 8gb nanos. I have every CD I own, about fifteen movies and a lot of jpeg pictures on mine and I think I've used around 10 or 11 gb. I'll never fill mine in a million years.


My collection won't fit on an 80 GB iPod. Not even close at this point.

What I have on my internal drive might. Not what's on my external though.

All my CD collection was ripped (500 + cd's), I have a TON of vinyl rips, tons of bootlegs and live audio, and I have purchased a ton of music through iTunes. I will admit I do download for free as well, but I do try to stick to mainly stuff that is impossible to find. If I download an album I like enough, I try to buy it.

As far as I can concerned, iTunes is an ok solution for a database this large. The tip mentioned earlier about using Smart Playlists, ratings and some of the other features of iTunes is a great tip. Smart Playlists are a MASSIVE time saver when you have a huge collection. Also, keeping on track of tagging your collection properly helps a lot. This is a monumental task for some of the stuff I have downloaded. When I rip my own stuff, I tag it right in the first place.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

iaresee said:


> My collection doesn't fit on my Nano. It's all in how I have my smart play lists setup. I have a play lists that auto-syncs that holds everything added in the past two weeks. I have a play list that auto-syncs that holds a random 100 top-rated songs that haven't been played in the past 30 days. And so on. I sync those smart play lists and my Nano is always cycling through stuff I haven't heard, new stuff, etc.
> 
> Rating content and using smart play lists is the gateway to happy iTunes - iPod existence.


Is there an Idiots Guide to this stuff on the Net somewhere? I feel like a doofus because all I ever do is put my Ipod on Shuffle mode and hit play. Sounds like I'm missing out on a bunch of functionality?


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Milkman said:


> How big does your collection have to be before it won't fit on an 80gb iPod?
> 
> Of course, I realize there are 4 gb and 8gb nanos. I have every CD I own, about fifteen movies and a lot of jpeg pictures on mine and I think I've used around 10 or 11 gb. I'll never fill mine in a million years.


Haha, my collection must be getting close to 300Gb or so, which is probably close to the size of Jeff's. I also have a bunch of DVD's full of stuff that I haven't heard in a while. It's a big collection. Real big.


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## WarrenG (Feb 3, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> iTunes might work on the perfect Mac as Ian mentions, but PC is truly a piece of crap.


Fixed it for ya!


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> Haha, my collection must be getting close to 300Gb or so, which is probably close to the size of Jeff's. I also have a bunch of DVD's full of stuff that I haven't heard in a while. It's a big collection. Real big.


 
Not even close. I'm approaching 1.7TB.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> Not even close. I'm approaching 1.7TB.


Ok, I'll bite (and demonstrate my ignorance).


WTF is a tb?

Would that be 1000gb?


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Ok, I'll bite (and demonstrate my ignorance).
> 
> 
> WTF is a tb?
> ...


Terrabyte

1 Terrabyte = 1024 Gigabyte.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> Not even close. I'm approaching 1.7TB.


Are you ripping to lossless? Most of mine is Lame v0.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2009)

bagpipe said:


> Is there an Idiots Guide to this stuff on the Net somewhere? I feel like a doofus because all I ever do is put my Ipod on Shuffle mode and hit play. Sounds like I'm missing out on a bunch of functionality?


I only learned about the real power of Smart Lists through a Mac911 tech tip. I read their RSS feed. Until last year I really thought iTunes was a 1995 piece of media software.

But there is an Idiots Guide to the iPod -- I have no idea if that's worth reading or not.

I can start another thread with some typical Smart List settings I like to use to keep my iPod content fresh if you like. Some of what I do is made uncessary for you because your entire collection fits on your player. I only carry an 8GB Nano. But the stuff I do with ratings and what not you might find interesting.



torndownunit said:


> As far as I can concerned, iTunes is an ok solution for a database this large.


That's where I'm at: it's okay. Not great, not lousy. But okay. Of the triumvirate (iTunes Store, iTunes, iPod) it is, without a doubt, the weakest link. Apple could be doing so much better here.



> Also, keeping on track of tagging your collection properly helps a lot. This is a monumental task for some of the stuff I have downloaded. When I rip my own stuff, I tag it right in the first place.


I am, and always have been, in anal retentive tagger. To the point of obsession. And here, yet again, is another area where iTunes blows chunks: tag correction in iTunes (especially big changes) sucks so bad it hurts. I've been looking for a good, free ID3 tag editor for the Mac and it's a barren wasteland of solutions out there. Whereas on Windows ID3 editors are a dime a dozen.

Good tagging is definitely an essential ingredient to enjoying a large collection.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2009)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> Not even close. I'm approaching 1.7TB.


 Indeed. That collection would, no doubt, rival a radio station. I have an uncle who's been a radio DJ going on some 40 years now and his album, tape and CD collection is MASSIVE -- to the point where is basement is his music collection -- and even that's not as big as yours.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Actually, this is an area you should really look into is iTunes scripts then. There are some amazing scripts for file editing, file managing, and mp3 tagging. If you have never explored them before, you will be astounded at how you can extend the program.

Check out this site: http://dougscripts.com/itunes/index.php

Actually, the scripts on this site could likely resolve most people issues with iTunes shortcomings. I tend to forget to recommend them because I have been running them since iTunes was created basically.

Media RAGE is a great tag editing program, but unfortunately it's not free. There used to be a couple of other really nice freeware programs, but they seemed to just stop developing them for some reason. As far as Universal Binary mp3 tagging apps, I don't even know if there are any besides RAGE.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> Are you ripping to lossless? Most of mine is Lame v0.


Every album is lossless. I have allot of 24bit/48khz stuff I pulled off DVD, DVD-A and Blu-Ray. I have 30-40 LPs I ripped as well that I just left at 24bit/48khz because I have the space. Of all my CDs 130 or so were actually HDCD which I decoded and stored in 24bit as well.

I've become pretty much infatuated with my collection and probably buy 10 new CDs a week.

kqoct


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

I use one of these to stream the music in it's native form to my sound system. I supports up 24/48.

Scrolling through my collection with it, most people are in awe!

http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2009)

torndownunit said:


> Actually, this is an area you should really look into is iTunes scripts then. There are some amazing scripts for file editing, file managing, and mp3 tagging. If you have never explored them before, you will be astounded at how you can extend the program.
> 
> Check out this site: http://dougscripts.com/itunes/index.php
> 
> Actually, the scripts on this site could likely resolve most people issues with iTunes shortcomings. I tend to forget to recommend them because I have been running them since iTunes was created basically.


Very excellent. Thanks! I'm actually pretty new to Mac and Apple Scripts are an area I've yet to dip my toes in.



> Media RAGE is a great tag editing program, but unfortunately it's not free. There used to be a couple of other really nice freeware programs, but they seemed to just stop developing them for some reason. As far as Universal Binary mp3 tagging apps, I don't even know if there are any besides RAGE.


I'll check out Media RAGE. I'm not against spending a few dollars if the app really works well. I've actually been really happy with the few non-free apps I've bought: MailPlane, WiiConnect, Logic Studio 8 -- all very well done.


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