# Tube Damper Rings



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I have a preamp tube in the V1 position making some noise, I've replaced it but I still get a bit of rattle when I sustain a lower frequency note. I don't want to put in a full cage over it so I'm thinking a couple of silicon rings might do the trick. Does anyone here use something like this? Suggestions on where to get some within Canada would be great as well. Thanks.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

go to partsource (the automotive repair store) and go to the bulk items aisle. there you will find rubber rings sold in bulk. they are about $0.40 each. take 2 or 3 of these and place them around your tubes.

i believe for a 12ax7 a 5/8" one will fit nice and snug.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Pre-amp tubes get chimey when they are stressed.The output tubes are _usually_ the ones that rattle.kksjur
Sometimes they will do this for months before they start to become unstable.Not a problem initially, if the rattle is not overpowering the note.You may need to secure those as well.
When they start to go, they usually grunt and make some pretty rude cracking sounds when subjected to the right frequencies.
Not sure what U have but............Combo's are especially hard on O/P tubes.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Make sure that you get hi-temp o-rings. I use 2 on a tube, however not even these will survive on power tubes. Spring retainers with silicone dampers may help but usually quieter replacements are the best option.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

What about the high temp silicon gasket? Run a bead around the tube and let it set. http://permatex.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/42291/81160 though it does not says sustained temp on the top side.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

WCGill said:


> Make sure that you get hi-temp o-rings. I use 2 on a tube, however not even these will survive on power tubes. Spring retainers with silicone dampers may help but usually quieter replacements are the best option.


my marshall came with plain jane rubber O-Rings on a mount affixed to the chassis. the ones you get from automotive stores are much nicer...

removing the stock tube from that O-ring was a PITA!!!!!

sadly, the replacement JJ i put in rattled more than the stock tube, which had a small JJ label on it as well.


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

WCGill said:


> Make sure that you get hi-temp o-rings. I use 2 on a tube, however not even these will survive on power tubes. Spring retainers with silicone dampers may help but usually quieter replacements are the best option.


I sell o-rings to industrial users. The standard black ones (nitrile rubber) are rated for 240 deg F. Silicone (usually orange in colour) and Viton (often brown) are good for 400 deg F. If you can't find them locally PM me - I should be able to help you.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Hmm, I'm asking for hi-temp and I'm getting black ones, but they have a white dot on them. What's with that? I've used the vitons in hydraulic systems where black ones would fail prematurely so I'm familiar with them, or so I thought.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

viton would probably work fine in place of silicone. 

JHarasym, I may be sending you a PM if I can't find anything locally...all I have is black rubbers on my preamps.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Do these thing really work? It kind of defies logic that a piece of rubber around the glass would stop any noise coming from inside the tube.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

Sneaky said:


> Do these thing really work? It kind of defies logic that a piece of rubber around the glass would stop any noise coming from inside the tube.


 yes. for the meager cost of O-Rings it's definitely not hurting anything either.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

They add to the mass of the glass bottle so that it does not vibrate. It would be just as easy for the maker to make a thicker bottle but


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

WCGill said:


> Spring retainers with silicone dampers may help but usually quieter replacements are the best option.


These seem to pretty popular when I type the subject into a Google search but a bit pricier than o-rings, so if replacing the tube hasn't worked and the o-rings don't either I might have to try them, because at this point I am really digging the tone of the amp. I'm also seeing a large amount of metal type bushings, some are very expensive, but I'm guessing these are more for stereophiles with crazy home systems.



loudtubeamps said:


> Pre-amp tubes get chimey when they are stressed.The output tubes are _usually_ the ones that rattle.kksjur
> Sometimes they will do this for months before they start to become unstable.Not a problem initially, if the rattle is not overpowering the note.You may need to secure those as well.
> When they start to go, they usually grunt and make some pretty rude cracking sounds when subjected to the right frequencies.
> Not sure what U have but............Combo's are especially hard on O/P tubes.


The amp is a 20 watt 1x12 combo and everything is still pretty new with low hours. I was going to eventually ask the question, should I just put dampers on all the tubes, pre and power? I'm not getting anything rattle wise from the power section, just V1 in the pre amp but I guess it wouldn't hurt anything, right? I do see some guys who do this to all the tubes and some guys just single out one or two, even the new Dr. Z amps on the shelf have a single pre amp tube with a couple of rings around it, seems like good prepping. 



JHarasym said:


> I sell o-rings to industrial users. The standard black ones (nitrile rubber) are rated for 240 deg F. Silicone (usually orange in colour) and Viton (often brown) are good for 400 deg F. If you can't find them locally PM me - I should be able to help you.


In asking around about o-rings at work today, I was told I could visit a place called "Commercial Bearing", local here, and they would have a vast supply of o-rings in all kinds of sizes and compounds. Do you know who they are or recommend them?

Thanks again to everyone who posts and helps with figuring out ways to solve these types of problems, although fairly small they sure are painful to hear coming through when your playing.
Vadim


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## neldom (Apr 29, 2009)

Maybe you should just buy a Z and quit beating around the bush.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Dr. Z uses the EF86 in a few of his builds, as do I, and they're notorious for noise. Probably what you're seeing the rings on.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

vadsy said:


> These seem to pretty popular when I type the subject into a Google search but a bit pricier than o-rings, so if replacing the tube hasn't worked and the o-rings don't either I might have to try them, because at this point I am really digging the tone of the amp. I'm also seeing a large amount of metal type bushings, some are very expensive, but I'm guessing these are more for stereophiles with crazy home systems.
> 
> 
> The amp is a 20 watt 1x12 combo and everything is still pretty new with low hours. I was going to eventually ask the question, should I just put dampers on all the tubes, pre and power? I'm not getting anything rattle wise from the power section, just V1 in the pre amp but I guess it wouldn't hurt anything, right? I do see some guys who do this to all the tubes and some guys just single out one or two, even the new Dr. Z amps on the shelf have a single pre amp tube with a couple of rings around it, seems like good prepping.
> ...


I called the one in nisku and they didnt have anything. neither did nisku nut and bolt. partsource was the only place i could find O-rings in various sizes.


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## brent (Feb 18, 2012)

Find a industrial hydraulics repair shop and ask for the size you want in Viton or flourocarbon material. Lots af times they are brown, but can come in other colors. Has a higher temp capacity than nitrile or urethane o rings.


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

These guys will have them :
http://www.hitechseals.com/locations.asp


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

JHarasym said:


> These guys will have them :
> http://www.hitechseals.com/locations.asp


They will expect you to know the o-ring number. Find dimensions on this chart and look for the "dash #" :
http://www.marcorubber.com/sizingchart.htm

Specify silicone o-rings.

From what I've seen on the web the damper o-rings look like nominal 1/8" cross-section (thickness), which would actually measure 0.139" (just over 1/8"). The ID (inside diameter) should be the same or slightly smaller than the actual diameter of your tube. They are sized thick and thus slightly small in diameter so they will stretch and grab the tube.


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

If anyone else is looking for these, if you give me your location I'll try and point you at a distributor.


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

Or once you figure out the size and dash # you can order online in Canada:
http://www.herculescn.com/home.php?cat=1134


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

I have some tubes from a forum member on hand. All 6#6's. There are four tubes, four makers, and four different sizes. I would recommend the use of a calliper to find the size of the tubes you have on hand.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

568-117S

these are 13/16" according to marco rubber. 3/16" cross section.

these will fit nicely on JJ 12ax7 and JJ el84s


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

568-117 is 3/32" nominal cross-section (0.103" actual)

Nominal 13/16" ID x 3/16" c/s (actual 0.787" ID x 0.210" c/s) would be 568-315


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

So I finally go by Hi-Tech Seals here in Edmonton and pick up some o-rings I intend to put on as tube dampners. I grabbed a couple of the 568-315, “Genuine” Viton good for 400F I’m told, to try out. The price was 3 bucks a piece which seems a bit much considering a regular nitrile ring from them costs 2-3 cents but I’ve spent more on dumber stuff. I had a 12AX7 with me as a sample and they fit fine but when I got home and tested on some of my NOS stuff they seemed a bit loose I thought. I’m sure as is mentioned above manufacturing and maybe old vs new will be different sizes. So a couple of questions to those that might have an idea; is silicone better or cheaper for this application? I notice that Viton and silicone are both rated similarly according to a quick Google search. Would any material that these places offer survive the thrashing of a power tube? I quickly threw an infrared thermometer on a quad set of EL84’s I have in a head and they were running between 200C to 215C. Is it beneficial or even worth doing this to a power tube? I’m thinking in general that silicone is the better choice or at least the one accepted by everyone everywhere already according to the online market at least. I just asked for high temp at the counter and they suggested I take a couple of Viton ones. At this point I’m not even getting much if any tube rattle so I’m thinking more along the lines of longevity because I’ve spent a fair amount of time and money outfitting my amps with the glass that seems to be working and sounding good at the same time. If anyone has further input or suggestions I’d love to hear them and also thanks for everything already mentioned.

Vadim


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

That price for viton is not out of line with the market I'm in. From a quick scan of my price list it appears silicone is usually cheaper, although the difference varies widely. Probably why you see silicone used more often with tubes. Of course every seller sets their own pricing. The selection of sizes in silicone from my supplier is much sparser than viton. 
You can select an o-ring smaller in diameter (say 10-20%) as they are pretty stretchy, and it will grip the tube better.


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