# CTV buys Hockey Night in Canada theme



## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I love that song--it was the ringtone on my old cell phone.

I figured if CBC passed something like this would happen.

It'll be cool to hear it during the Olympics. But I'll miss it during HNIC.

It's a song that touches a chord with a lot of Canadians.

Dunt Da Dunt Da da


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

So....what I don't get is this: can they not just re-record it? I can't stop anyone from recording my songs. They have to pay me every time it's used or sold. But I can't stop them. And the rate, AFAIK, was fixed by SOCAN and The Great Canadian Government. But everything I know applies to albums and radio. Is it not the same for television broadcasts?

For example: I can go record The Hockey Song. I can license my performance to CBC. Stompin' Tom (or whomever owns the publishing rights to The Hockey Song) takes a cut of my license fee because he wrote it. But the cut is non-negotiable. It's fixed and collected by SOCAN for them.

Can you sell an exclusive right to a song, not a performance? I didn't think you could. I can't stop you from also recording The Hockey Song any more than Stompin' Tom can.

How is this different? They didn't want to pay more to use the existing recording is my understanding of it.

But hey: I feel like I'm missing something in this picture. Someone clue me in.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

She tried to put the squeeze on the CBC and it backfired. Sometimes it's best to take what you can get. I would be happy with $500 a game for a little diddy thats over 40 years old and the only thing I ever wrote that was a viable entity.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

iaresee said:


> So....what I don't get is this: can they not just re-record it? I can't stop anyone from recording my songs. They have to pay me every time it's used or sold. But they can't stop me. And the rate, AFAIK, was fixed by SOCAN and The Great Canadian Government. But everything I know applies to albums and radio. Is it not the same for television broadcasts?
> 
> For example: I can go record The Hockey Song. I can license my performance to CBC. Stompin' Tom (or whomever owns the publishing rights to The Hockey Song) takes a cut of my license fee because he wrote it. But the cut is non-negotiable. It's fixed and collected by SOCAN for them.
> 
> ...


It's not the version or recording that's in dispute--but you do need to license a song for certain uses--such as for use in TV shows. If you just release a version on record and follow the correct steps--that should be no problem. But you can't use it in your TV show without permission. I don't know the exact details--but that's the general idea. You're using the song to sell a product-in this case--HNIC. 
That's why if you caught a rerun of the old show Bosom Buddies you likely won't hear Billy Joel's "My Life"--the license on it as the theme song ran out. (Unless they revived it for DVD release.)

Same thing with some of the songs used int he episodes of WKRP in Cincinnati. Originally the first song Johnny Fever played when the format switched was Ted Nugent's "Queen of the Forest." I caught that episode a couple of years ago and the song was a generic rock song. And in the episode where Mr Carlson asks Johnny if he hears dogs (referring to Pink Floyd)--well it was no longer Pink Floyd playing. And the joke was ruined. Now these may have been for the original recordings--but the same idea applies. They probably couldn't use cover versions either.

So it's not the version or recording--but the license to use the song itself.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

zontar said:


> So it's not the version or recording--but the license to use the song itself.


That, in a round about way, is what I was getting at. I can license your song. I can record it and sell it and I don't have to ask you permission. I do have to pay you a licensing fee for the song. And that fee is set by the gov't.

Now it seems that commercial television broadcast licensing, if I'm reading the fiasco correctly, isn't the same as for-sale and for radio licensing. That is: if I record your song and the subsequently want to sell that recording to the CBC to use you can set any price you want for CBC (or rather me) to pay for the license to use that song on television.

What I want to know is: is that last paragraph true and why isn't it like radio or CD licensing where it's fixed fee, non-limited?


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## Geek (Jun 5, 2007)

CBC shows, like the "Q" and Spark are using Creative Commons music, where an attribution is all that's required. I have not clue one why the other departments don't go that route.

BTW, I read there's $100,000 for anyone that writes/sends in the winning replacement. We should get busy :smile:

Cheers!


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## gramatica (Dec 3, 2007)

*Songwriter Blues*



GuitarsCanada said:


> She tried to put the squeeze on the CBC and it backfired.


_Put the squeeze?_ CBC violated the terms of their agreement by using the song outside of Canada. Not to mention the _unforseen in 1968_ ringtones. The agreement expired and she walked... all the way to the bank!



GuitarsCanada said:


> I would be happy with $500 a game for a little diddy thats over 40 years old and the only thing I ever wrote that was a viable entity.


She also wrote another tune you know - and likely hate: 
_A place to live, a place to grow
Ontari-ari-ario!_


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

gramatica said:


> _Put the squeeze?_ CBC violated the terms of their agreement by using the song outside of Canada. Not to mention the _unforseen in 1968_ ringtones. The agreement expired and she walked... all the way to the bank!
> 
> 
> She also wrote another tune you know - and likely hate:
> ...


Yes indeed, but not as much as the Marineland theme!! :smilie_flagge17:


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

gramatica said:


> _Put the squeeze?_ CBC violated the terms of their agreement by using the song outside of Canada. Not to mention the _unforseen in 1968_ ringtones. The agreement expired and she walked... all the way to the bank!
> 
> 
> She also wrote another tune you know - and likely hate:
> ...


Your right, I hate it. I would not put that one in the hit category. I dont think she walked to the bank. CTV will not play that song anywhere near what it got on CBC. 

According to what I can find CBC played it outside of Canada about 3 times. Again, at $500 per game on CBC I would have been very happy. As pointed out by many in the know, including the man that first commissioned the song, it is a worthless diddy without HNIC. That is it's one and only use.


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## Guest (Jun 10, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> As pointed out by many in the know, including the man that first commissioned the song, it is a worthless diddy without HNIC. That is it's one and only use.


That's a very good point. You're not going to see CTV using it as the intro music to Canadian Idol!


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

I hope CTV doesnt actually believe its the only ingredient to making a hockey show. I still believe the CBC should be dismantled and sold off, so good for CTV..........


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## gramatica (Dec 3, 2007)

jroberts said:


> HNIC has been on a downhill slide since they took Peter Puck off the air.


Now this is news - I recently saw a DVD with every _Peter Puck _episode! Not taped off the air crap... a *DVD*!


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

SACRILEGE !!! May CTV BURN IN HELLevilGuitar:evilGuitar:evilGuitar:


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## gramatica (Dec 3, 2007)

jroberts said:


> Really?! I'd heard that CBC had lost the master tapes.


I was in a store that carries the usual collections - like 24, CSI, Bones... hold the phone! 

Quickly I caught the attention of the young and lovely *Mrs Gramatica*.

_Holy vulcanized rubber!_, she says. Not really, but I can dream...

It was legit. I wouldn't doubt that CBC "lost the master tapes" but did they look in CTV's garage! :smile:


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## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Your right, I hate it. I would not put that one in the hit category. I dont think she walked to the bank. CTV will not play that song anywhere near what it got on CBC.
> 
> According to what I can find CBC played it outside of Canada about 3 times. Again, at $500 per game on CBC I would have been very happy. As pointed out by many in the know, including the man that first commissioned the song, it is a worthless diddy without HNIC. That is it's one and only use.


It doesn't matter to her how often CTV plays it because she sold it to them. She cashed out. However, she may still be able to go after the CBC for unpaid royalties while it was still her intellectual property, which she might have had to relinquish if she sold it outright to them. Good move on her part.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Lester B. Flat said:


> It doesn't matter to her how often CTV plays it because she sold it to them. She cashed out. However, she may still be able to go after the CBC for unpaid royalties while it was still her intellectual property, which she might have had to relinquish if she sold it outright to them. Good move on her part.


I would agree there. her only smart move was to sell it outright. She would not get near the royalties from CTV. So in that respect it was a good move.


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

iaresee said:


> So....what I don't get is this: can they not just re-record it? I can't stop anyone from recording my songs. They have to pay me every time it's used or sold. But I can't stop them. And the rate, AFAIK, was fixed by SOCAN and The Great Canadian Government. But everything I know applies to albums and radio. Is it not the same for television broadcasts?
> 
> For example: I can go record The Hockey Song. I can license my performance to CBC. Stompin' Tom (or whomever owns the publishing rights to The Hockey Song) takes a cut of my license fee because he wrote it. But the cut is non-negotiable. It's fixed and collected by SOCAN for them.
> 
> ...





GuitarsCanada said:


> She tried to put the squeeze on the CBC and it backfired. Sometimes it's best to take what you can get. I would be happy with $500 a game for a little diddy thats over 40 years old and the only thing I ever wrote that was a viable entity.





Robert1950 said:


> SACRILEGE !!! May CTV BURN IN HELLevilGuitar:evilGuitar:evilGuitar:




Okay Guys......Here is the story. I'm doing the NHL Awards right now and this is what I'm hearing straight from the horse's mouth.
She had an agreement with the CBC for a certain amount everytime the song was used for a HNIC broadcast, period. They started using it in commercials and promos which were not part of the agreement. Then they (the CBC) sold it to the Bell ringtones program and it became the biggest selling ringtone download in this country's history. They never paid her a dime. It was not their song to sell. It song's rights and property belongs with the composer. The deal she had with them was stricly for HNIC broadcasts.
After many years of trying to settle this, she instituted a lawsuit in 2004. Asking for compensation for the commercial use and the monies paid CBC for the ringtones. She was only asking for what was legally her's in the first place.
The finance head of CBC Sports thought if he could offer her a flat $500 per show that included complete rights to the song (for commercials, ringtones etc.) and that little old lady and her "smalltime" (his quote) lawyer would just go away. This guy is known to be a little tight with dough (hence CTV getting the rights to the Olympics for the next Winter and Summer games) and will put the screws to anyone he deems screwable.
So enter CTV......sure we'll pay you that much and then some for our NHL broadcasts. She went back to the CBC and gave them a deadline. They balked and she walked. 
Yes it is a shame that that song will not be part of the future HNIC broadcasts but the blame lies squarlely on CBC's tight shoulders
Kudos to CTV for keeping a Canadian institution alive. 

By the way....Ron Maclean is doing a very funny ringtone gag about that very thing on the show tomorrow night (hopefully he doesn't get fired).
Plus Stompin' Tom doing "The Hockey Song" what more can you ask for. ....Pass me a 50 !!!!!

*"Hello out there we're on the air it's hockey night tonite
Tension grows the whistle blows-& the puck goes down the ice.
The goalie jumps and the players bump and the fans all go insane
Someone roars "Bobby scores!" at the good ole hockey game
Chorus:
Oh the good ole hockey game is the best game you can name
And the best game you can name is the good ole hockey game
2nd period:
Where players dash with skates aflash the home team trails behind
But they grab the puck and go bursting up and they're down across the line
They storm the crease like bumble bees they travel like a burning flame
We see them slide the puck inside -It's a "1-1" hockey game!
Chorus:
3rd period: last game in the playoffs, too...
Oh take me where the hockey players face off down the rink-
And the Stanley Cup is all filled up for the chaps who win the drink-
Now the final flick of the hockey stick and a one gigantic scream-
The puck is in! The home team wins! The good ole hockey game!
Chorus:
repeat
3 times
He shoots he scores...*

cheers
Pete


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2008)

*Steven Colbert; "I got your hockey theme song"*

Aired june 10. http://youtube.com/watch?v=TD-W5EIX0BM


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

faracaster said:


> Okay Guys......Here is the story. I'm doing the NHL Awards right now and this is what I'm hearing straight from the horse's mouth.
> She had an agreement with the CBC for a certain amount everytime the song was used for a HNIC broadcast, period. They started using it in commercials and promos which were not part of the agreement. Then they (the CBC) sold it to the Bell ringtones program and it became the biggest selling ringtone download in this country's history. They never paid her a dime. It was not their song to sell. It song's rights and property belongs with the composer. The deal she had with them was stricly for HNIC broadcasts.
> After many years of trying to settle this, she instituted a lawsuit in 2004. Asking for compensation for the commercial use and the monies paid CBC for the ringtones. She was only asking for what was legally her's in the first place.
> The finance head of CBC Sports thought if he could offer her a flat $500 per show that included complete rights to the song (for commercials, ringtones etc.) and that little old lady and her "smalltime" (his quote) lawyer would just go away. This guy is known to be a little tight with dough (hence CTV getting the rights to the Olympics for the next Winter and Summer games) and will put the screws to anyone he deems screwable.
> ...


Would Stompin' Tom sell? :smile:

It would be a good choice in my books--but may not capture the right demographic...


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

zontar said:


> Would Stompin' Tom sell? :smile:
> 
> It would be a good choice in my books--but may not capture the right demographic...


I don't know about that, I'm always surprised at the breadth and scope of ages who LOVE Stompin Tom. :smilie_flagge17:


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Ditto on Stompin' Tom...one of my guitar students, a teenage girl, loves to play his stuff! Go figure.

Peace, Mooh.


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## sysexguy (Mar 5, 2006)

> Pass me a 50 !!!!!


 A real 50, in a stubby bottle!:food-smiley-004:

Andy


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> I don't know about that, I'm always surprised at the breadth and scope of ages who LOVE Stompin Tom. :smilie_flagge17:


I agree, and said I'd like that choice, but the question is would *CBC* think it fit the right demographic, not whether it really would...


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