# Your opinion on this guitar shape



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

Here's a design I came up with about 4 years ago. I am just now finishing the first version of it, and a second one is about 1/4 done. What do you think? Attractive or not? Influences too obvious or not? Tell me honestly what you think. Any suggestions welcome :


----------



## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Hmm it would have to grow on me. The lines are a bit confusing to my eye. No white on the pickguard on the right of the neck distracts me. That whole corner really.

sorry but you asked. Great try though. What are the fretmarkers?
What does the headstock look like?


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. 

I got that comment about the lack of a defined line around the right cutaway before. Since these pictures were taken, I have scraped the inside of the cutaway to the bare maple (it's an inlaid 1/4" thick maple plate, flush with the rest of the guitar), so that I get a continuous light-colored line all around. I have yet to take pictures of the new look, but I'll be sure to post it as soon as I can.

The second prototype has an actual pickguard, 3-ply BWB, similar to upper part of the maple plate on this guitar, but stops at the bridge, i.e., doesn't extend to the lower bout. Pics to follow.

Any other thoughts?


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

shoretyus said:


> What are the fretmarkers?


Koa... I think. That neck was built 4 years ago, right after I laid the design on paper, so I don't recall every detail. I do remember that 2 of those markers are actually 3/4" long dowels that extend through the fretboard and into the neck, to keep everything in place while gluing the fretboard down. They don't fit the color scheme of that particular guitar though, and I'll inlay standard white MOP dots over them, which will look much better IMHO.



shoretyus said:


> What does the headstock look like?


The current headstock is angled at 12*, 3+3 Gibson style, which also doesn't fit too well with the Fender-ish look and feel of the guitar. This should be addressed in the 3rd prototype, as the 2nd already has a 75% completed neck.

Thanks again for your comments. Keep 'em coming, especially if there's something you see that really bothers you!...


----------



## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

hmm. i might widen the body a little, it's a little skinny of a guitar.. the uncovered pickups don't look right on this guitar. they may look better with a pickguard in place, but i would suspect that they won't. the choice of control knob is out of place on this guitar, too (again maybe better on a pickguard, but here i'd use a gibson speed knob). i would also rethink the stop tailpiece... i think it's too small, looks lost on the face of the guitar. 

as for finish, i'd love to see the matte black with a gloss sunburst (cherry sunburst especially) in the front piece. i do like the basic guitar silhouette though... good potential there.


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

suttree said:


> i would also rethink the stop tailpiece... i think it's too small, looks lost on the face of the guitar.


Too small, or too far away from the bridge? I think it'd look good as is, but closer to the bridge. But you might have a point. In any case, if I drop this tailpiece design, it'll be because it's just way too hard and time consuming to machine in my shop!...

Prototype 2 won't have it, it'll be a standard Strat-style hardtail.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I like the shape, even if it's not a Telecaster, LOL! Actually, it's pretty tasteful, and any variation would be up to your own eye and sense of proportion and symetry. 

Maybe try a string through Strat style hardtail. The volume control is nicely positioned, though the pickup selector is too far away for my liking. 

Interesting.

Peace, Mooh.


----------



## Peter (Mar 25, 2008)

I love the colors! :rockon:


----------



## Spikezone (Feb 2, 2006)

Well, I like the shape, but I must admit, I am looking forward to seeing it with the extra bit of white line exposed on the other cutaway. I also love the look of the woodgrain on the top-the colour and grain reveal is very cool. Let's see those next pics! I`d love to see a set of chrome GFS Pro-Tubes in that baby.
-Mikey


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

Here's what it looks like now. There's 6 coats of nitro highlighting the blotchy stain job on the maple plate. Since I will be the one playing this, I don't mind the "unprofessional" look, but it just wouldn't cut it if I was doing this for a customer. Finishing is an art that I still have to learn.










And here's how #2 is shaping up :










Thanks for looking. Criticism's always welcome!


----------



## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

#2 looks cool.... please tell me you're going TV yellow with that horn silhouette... i prefer the heavier bridge on that guitar, too (again just my opinion)... i like the white line completely around the top area on the first guitar, it looks better that way.. they do look good though keep us updated.


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

I was thinking White Blonde or Butterscotch, but TV Yellow would work also. With P90s maybe... Or single coils (2 or 3) and Lake Placid Blue? Maybe for #3. Why am I already planning #3? 

Edit : Since I'm working with Alder here, and not Ash, TV Yellow would probably look better...


----------



## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

Just my thoughts:

I really like the inset shape, but I'm not big on the parts with the roundover behind it. Maybe a single cut a-la-rounded Iceman but more elegant, less Heavy Metal?

I also think it would look better with the strings going directly through the body with no wooden tail piece - unless you are going foir that Jazz Guitar look, in which case I would go with mini humbuckers and leave everything else as is.


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

Hamm Guitars said:


> I really like the inset shape, but I'm not big on the parts with the roundover behind it. Maybe a single cut a-la-rounded Iceman but more elegant, less Heavy Metal?
> 
> I also think it would look better with the strings going directly through the body with no wooden tail piece - unless you are going foir that Jazz Guitar look, in which case I would go with mini humbuckers and leave everything else as is.


Thanks for the feedback, I see what you mean, and I'll keep that in mind for #2 and #3. I'm having a blast trying out different shapes and configurations. It's not easy trying to be different and original, yet please the eye of the majority. I'm starting to realize the genius behind Mr. Fender's creations... Because, let's face it, the Stratocaster is the ultimate guitar. Everything else is just compromises.  No? :wink:


----------



## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

Joel Rainville said:


> Thanks for the feedback, I see what you mean, and I'll keep that in mind for #2 and #3. I'm having a blast trying out different shapes and configurations. It's not easy trying to be different and original, yet please the eye of the majority. I'm starting to realize the genius behind Mr. Fender's creations... Because, let's face it, the Stratocaster is the ultimate guitar. Everything else is just compromises.  No? :wink:


Yes, I know it's tough - I've failed at it a few times:smile:.


----------



## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

I think it looks great!The only thing i would change(just my preference)is to make the upper horn(?) more closely resemble that of the schecter 006.Thats just my opinion.How does it sound?More importantly,how much would you sell me one for?Im left handed so i would need a lefty version.


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

xuthal said:


> How does it sound?


Honestly? Put those same 2 humbuckers in a decent Strat, and it should sound very close to this guitar, although the 24.9" scale (see the story below) makes it feel softer and a bit "rounder" than your average Strat. 

Compared to my G&L Legacy, the unplugged sound isn't as snappy, and has more low mid, with a bit more sustain. I'm not saying it's better than my G&L, which is a *fantastic* guitar. Just that my design departs from the typical Strat sound, but is still very Fender-ish.

The scale ended up as 24.875", and not 25" because I tried to be clever. I figured out one day that I could use a 1/4"-20 threaded rod to make a jig to fabricate my own fret scale templates. The jig was awfully complicated, and required me to count the number of revolutions between frets (i.e. 10 and 1/8 of a turn to the next fret), but it worked. However, hardware store 1/4"-20 rod isn't precisely, machinist approved, 20 threads per inch. It's roughly 20 threads per inch. So by the time I got to the 12th fret, I was already off by 1/16", shortening the effective scale length by 1/8". Hence, 24.875" instead of 25".

At first, I was sure I had missed a few turns of the screw here and there, and thought the fretboard was totally useless. I almost threw it out, but always ended up storing it away, until one day (a few years later) when I got a digital caliper, and compared measurements taken on the fretboard to what a 25" scale length was supposed to be, and realized that every fret was off, but consistently so up to the 23rd fret. This meant that I had a usable 24.875" scale fretboard.

The guitar has 23 frets. I wish I had a good story there too, but I don't. This guitar build started 4 years ago, and judging from the neck pocket, the neck's heel and the bridge placement, I really meant to have 23 frets there. I just don't remember why. (Luckily the TOM saddle had just enough forward travel to compensate for the 24.875" scale, a full 1/8" shorter than the scale I thought I was working with at the time.)



xuthal said:


> More importantly,how much would you sell me one for?Im left handed so i would need a lefty version.


My brother and father are left-handed guitarists, so a lefty is bound to happen soon, although I don't see myself selling one of these, not in a near future anyway. But thanks, I take that as a compliment. 

Here's what it looks like now, almost ready to go. That picture was taken minutes ago :


----------



## toastman (Mar 28, 2008)

love the color

not too fond of the shape tho...it kinda looks like a godin tho..

either way, its more original than anything i could do


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

Here's #2. Same basic shape, with a pickguard this time :










Dressed in white, with #1 :


----------



## WannabeGood (Oct 24, 2007)

Nice job on both. I'm more partial to #1 though. However your pickguard on #2 looks very .............professional.........how did you cut and edge it? Also where did you get the plastic laminate?

Regards,


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

WannabeGood said:


> your pickguard on #2 looks very .............professional.........how did you cut and edge it? Also where did you get the plastic laminate?


Thanks. Most of my pickguard material comes from StewMac. They're the cheapest, although I have bought from other sources, eBay and a few other online stores. Some of this stuff I bought 4 or 5 years ago, so I don't exactly remember. Might be from Luthiers Mercantile too. 

The pickguard you are looking at took 16 hours to complete, from the finished drawing to the first usable pickguard. That's not counting the 4 hours spent exchanging Photoshop drawings with my brother, until we both agreed that it looked good. That drawing was also based on a previous design I had spent several hours working on...

Once I have the drawing printed to size, I cut it in 1/8" thick material (masonite or plywood usually) and work this with files and sandpaper until the edges are smooooooooth. Smooth with only 2 o's doesn't cut it. It has to be smooooooth, or any small bump will transfer to the finished pickguard and it won't look good. Then I test fit this to the body and make sure that everything lines-up perfectly. On that particular design, I had to redo my master template twice, so the the bottom edge would closely match that of the bottom edge of the guitar.

From that perfectly smooth master template, I cut a "working" template in 1/2" material (high quality 1/2" baltic birch plywood) on the router table with a template cutter. That working template gets its edges saturated with crazy glue and/or epoxy, which is then sanded up to 320 grit, so that any cracks or bumps in the plywood get smoothed out. The glue also prevents the template cutter's bearing from wearing out the template edges after just a few pickguards. At that point, the 1/8" thick master template is safely stored away, as it might be needed later for cutting a new working template.

Then I cut a first pickguard on the router table, using the same template cutter. In most cases, I need to go back to the working template and smooth out some areas that I missed earlier in the process. Then re-cut. Then go back to the template, then re-cut. And so on.

When I'm happy with it, it's bevel time, using a simple 45* bevel cutter. Most of the time, the bevel will reveal a few bumps here and there, so it's back to the working template with sandpaper, and try again.

Also, when cutting plastic laminate, the small plastic chips get statically charged and will stick to everything : the router table, the template itself, your safety glasses, your hair... During the cutting phase, I need to stop 5-6 times to clean the templates edges so that the chips don't get between the template and the cutter's bearing, or else you get bumps...

The good news is that once you have a good working template, the next pickguard is only a 1/2 hour job max. Provided the drill press is already set at the proper depth for the screws countersinks.

Pickguard cutting is very tedious work as you can see. All in all I had to cut 5 or 6 master templates, 3 working templates and scrapped about $40 of plastic material before I even got one single usable pickguard. But in the end, it's all worth it.


----------



## Grenvilleter (Dec 22, 2007)

Nice looking axe's ! What is the neck material made from ? It looked like oak or ash from the photo. 
Thanks :smilie_flagge17:


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

Yes, the blue guitar has a scarf jointed white ash neck. #2 has a solid yellow birch neck. #3 will be a more traditional maple neck, but with a swamp ash body and maple fretboard. It'll also be oriented the other way around, for the non-right-handed guitarists. sdsre


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

We're making slow but steady progress on #2 :


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

A little more progress on #2 :










Not the easiest color scheme to photograph! :










And work started on #3... which is actually a lefty in real life, mocked up with a flipped over righty pickguard and a rosewood fingerboard :










And #1 plugged in and ready to rock (I need to come up with a truss rod cover fast), with my G&L Legacy (God I hate that MOP pickguard) :


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I still like your shape. It's different than all the other clones I see. Some might not care for the pickguard being so close to the edge of the body, but it's a refreshing change. 

Very nice.

Peace, Mooh.


----------



## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Nice lookin' axe! I personnaly prefer the first one, but for me the right horn is too short and could turn on the outside! Coutinue your great work!


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

Mooh said:


> Some might not care for the pickguard being so close to the edge of the body, but it's a refreshing change.


Thanks, few people notice it until they handle the guitar, and that's the first thing they mention, "hey, it's right up to the edge that pickguard!" Yes it is :


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I also like the combination of Strat-like control layout and P-90s. The cutaway contour looks sweet too.

How many frets?

Peace, Mooh.


----------



## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

Looks a bit like a Mosrite. Nice colours on the first and second one.


----------



## corailz (May 1, 2008)

Joel Rainville said:


>


It's a crazy nice looking guitar!Congrats!!!!I'm speechless!


----------



## Edutainment (Jan 29, 2008)

It's got a nice vintage look to it. I like it.


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

#3, wearing its loaded pickguard (no real camera is available this week-end, so bear with me!) :


----------



## Spikezone (Feb 2, 2006)

First post on this thread, but I have been following it since the start. I like both guitars-great design! I, too like #1 the best, but there's nothing at all wrong with #2 either-like the P-90's. Keep up the great work!
-Mikey
P.S. on #3-you posted the pic while I was composing this. Very cool-a lefty! Are the lipsticks from GFS?


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

Spikezone said:


> Very cool-a lefty! Are the lipsticks from GFS?


Yes they are. It's my first time using GFS pickups, and although I still have my doubts, the fit and finish on these lipsticks is impressive. It doesn't look like cheap imports... at all. Can't wait to plug this in and have my brother try them out (I can't play lefty sdsre ). But that's still a couple of months down the road.


----------



## Hired Goon (Mar 4, 2008)

I love the shape. It's more interesting than a lot of modified strats. Might have to put an order in if these become commercially available.


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

Made a couple of videos today of #1 and #2 in action. The image is crappy and dark, the sound is mediocre, but it still gives you an idea of how it'd sound through a wall of Marshall stacks... not really, but they're videos so watch 'em, ok?  










#1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jri_PZPyIw

#2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YepfGoathOs


----------



## martyb1 (Aug 5, 2007)

Cool
Sounds great!!:smile:


----------



## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Digging the R2 neck pickup


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

I can't believe it sounds that good. Did I mention it's a $9 chinese pickup? : http://cgi.ebay.ca/SOAPBAR-ELECTRIC...47067QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262


----------



## Joel Rainville (Apr 21, 2008)

Just a quick update on #3 - the lefty on the right - which is about 75% done :










It's the best sounding of the 3. That light swamp ash makes the unplugged sound much louder than the 2 previous alder bodies. Too bad I can hardly play it, although I managed to fake my way through a few chord changes and some Beatles riffs :rockon2:


----------



## Edutainment (Jan 29, 2008)

Those are some cool looking guitars. Is the lefty being built for someone else? Are those lipstick tubes on that last one? I love lipstick tubes.


----------

