# What the deal with The Gear Page??



## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

I've been banned three times, and now it seems to be permanent. Not for breaking their rules, but clearly the mods must be some evangelically enhanced human beings. 

I mean like come'on! Do they block based on IP? Since I had it set to remember my login, I can't log out to use the forum or create a new account.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

1. yes, IP
2. yes, evangelical


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

We should move this to the political thread, no......wait........not supposed to mix Religion & Politics........
Man, what a boring site it would be............B#(*(I’m so going to be banned for this)%h(*&


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

We'll need a complete list of your vintage and boutique gear before we can discuss things any further.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Did you happen to mention you like Joe Bonamassa there?


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I used the word trumped in the correct context which they took the wrong way. Apparently they didn’t know the word and construed the meaning all crazy like. Fucking fuckwits.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I got booted off the AGF for saying that James Taylor's tuning video was boring as all hell but way more interesting than his music - not at all important but it's pretty much my only significant achievement on a music based website .. lol


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Yeah, I'm currently in the middle of a ban that ends on the 25th. The mods over there are so fucking retarded. I'd love to knock a couple out.

This is the post that did it; made me laugh, anyway. I took a screenshot, because I knew it was going to disappear. We were talking about 2015 Gibsons. They're a good deal, imo, and this guys wasn't having it.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Adcandour said:


> Yeah, I'm currently in the middle of a ban that ends on the ...]


yeah, you’d be a popular boy with that crew…lol


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Adcandour said:


> Yeah, I'm currently in the middle of a ban that ends on the 25th. The mods over there are so fucking retarded. I'd love to knock a couple out.
> 
> This is the post that did it; made me laugh, anyway. I took a screenshot, because I knew it was going to disappear. We were talking about 2015 Gibsons. They're a good deal, imo, and this guys wasn't having it.
> 
> View attachment 313082


lol, funny. Love it


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

My take is that if you are not there to stroke off Pete Thorn, Suhr, and Fractal, you will be only slightly tolerated at best. Say anything even remotely critical of this holy trinity and look out.

Too bad because all three entities are pretty awesome at what they do, but they are positioned as untouchable in a way that defies logic. They also constantly use the forum as their own sales/marketing campaigns.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

You could never say "The Pope's on dope, hang him with a rope."


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

traynor_garnet said:


> My take is that if you are not there to stroke off Pete Thorn, Suhr, and Fractal, you will be slightly tolerated at best. Say anything even remotely critical of this holy trinity and look out.
> 
> Too bad because all three entities are pretty awesome at what they do, but they are positioned ad untouchable in a way that defies logic.



That can happen on various forums. Go over to mylespaul.com and try to criticize Phaez amps.

TGP is also full of religious types. A lot of praise and worship players over there, including many mods. Just the term 'praise and worship' makes me laugh.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Hmm, I've never really spent much time there--and it's been years since I last did--mostly if I find a link to them when doing a search on guitar stuff.
I do play on a worship team, or at least was before the Covid stuff struck.
I do like it here.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Praise and worship. That's what the ladies do when they see my python.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

I don't go on TGP as much anymore since it's grown into a small city (200K members?). A ton of good information but with that comes a lot of rubbish. You take the good with the bad and use your own personal sieve....

As for the moderators, it is a thankless job. One of the senior guys on TGP that i've known for over 20 years has had personal death threats and to his family (one of the jackasses named his kids when he made a threat). Maybe there is overaction in some cases but they deal with a lot of sh*t. I've made good friends on that forum and two of them, a doctor and a dentist are phenomenal players which kills the stereotype about the medical profession and playing guitar....they do have good gear though : - ) .

I've learned a few things from the forums:

1. Some people like arguing for the sake of arguing
2. The longer the ad description, the higher the asking price
3. Everytime someone refinishes a brand new guitar, baby jesus is crying.....


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Alex said:


> a doctor and a dentist are phenomenal players which kills the stereotype about the medical profession and playing guitar


What is the stereotype?


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

greco said:


> What is the stereotype?


fancy gear and can’t play.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

traynor_garnet said:


> My take is that if you are not there to stroke off Pete Thorn, Suhr, and Fractal, you will be only slightly tolerated at best. Say anything even remotely critical of this holy trinity and look out.


Well, they're right about Fractal.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Alex said:


> As for the moderators, it is a thankless job. One of the senior guys on TGP that i've known for over 20 years has had personal death threats and to his family (one of the jackasses named his kids when he made a threat).


WTF?!?! 

I sincerely hope he got the police involved.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

I don't even know what I posted that warranted being banned. Its not like I was trolling, I had more likes than posts. I don't mind not participating in posting there if they don't want my eyeballs, but the gear sections are actually pretty decent.

The damn site wont even let me log out.

I know moderating is a thankless job, but if you can't even joke on the internet its going a little too far.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

TheYanChamp said:


> I know moderating is a thankless job


Power corrupts.
It also attracts the corruptible.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Welcome to GC where we are a lot more tolerant.

Unless you like 9 year-old boys - that's a tough one. Unless you're an 8 year-old girl.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> Unless you like 9 year-old boys - that's a tough one. Unless you're an 8 year-old girl.


is that a jab at @boyscout


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

I’ve been on TGP for years (since 2004) and never had the issues some people seem to have. 

I haven’t followed the TGP crowd (played doom metal/stoner rock and joined looking for information on fuzz boxes), have made fun of the P&W crowd for being so stereotypically P&W, have shit talked Fractal, dissed PRS, trolled the odd audiophile, argued that modern channel switchers are better than any old school single channel amp and started threads explaining why PAFs suck. 

Zero issues. I have gotten a couple warnings for telling people they’re a stupid cunt and should go fuck themselves, but no bans and no time outs.

As for moderating humour, I get it. Over the years I’ve been on forums that were ruined by a small group of jokers that were just having fun while driving everyone else away. Like it or not, TGP survived while other guitar forums imploded from infighting or died a slow death due to lack of active users.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

_Azrael said:


> I’ve been on TGP for years (since 2004) and never had the issues some people seem to have.
> 
> I haven’t followed the TGP crowd (played doom metal/stoner rock and joined looking for information on fuzz boxes), have made fun of the P&W crowd for being so stereotypically P&W, have shit talked Fractal, dissed PRS, trolled the odd audiophile, argued that modern channel switchers are better than any old school single channel amp and started threads explaining why PAFs suck.
> 
> ...


same, heck, identical on some points. its funny how some folks just can't get along...


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## spacebard (Aug 1, 2009)

TheYanChamp said:


> The damn site wont even let me log out.


Close your browser and come back as a guest or delete temporary files.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

TheYanChamp said:


> The damn site wont even let me log out.



Clear cookies or use a different browser.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

spacebard said:


> Close your browser and come back as a guest or delete temporary files.





colchar said:


> Clear cookies or use a different browser.


I don't think this will work, I remember reading that they track IP addresses


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## spacebard (Aug 1, 2009)

vadsy said:


> I don't think this will work, I remember reading that they track IP addresses


It will allow you to log out but don't sign in if you want to view topics in TGP. You won't be able to create a new account unless you use a different IP adress.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Start a thread titled: 

Peavey vs. Bogner. If you could only choose one.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> Start a thread titled:
> 
> Peavey vs. Bogner. If you could only choose one.


calm down, Satin


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

spacebard said:


> It will allow you to log out but don't sign in if you want to view topics in TGP. You won't be able to create a new account unless you use a different IP adress.



Thats the problem it won't. I get redirected to the you have infractions pop-up and keeps me logged in.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

vadsy said:


> calm down, Satin


Spelling is everything.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> Spelling is everything.


absolutely. It’s important to get it right the first time around


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

TheYanChamp said:


> Thats the problem it won't. I get redirected to the you have infractions pop-up and keeps me logged in.


If you're really on a different IP, gotta clear your cookies I would guess. 

That place sounds a lot like here.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I say, new IP and start a new account. No need to go chasing waterfalls…


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## spacebard (Aug 1, 2009)

TheYanChamp said:


> Thats the problem it won't. I get redirected to the you have infractions pop-up and keeps me logged in.


I had the same problem. I had to close Firefox and when I went on TGP, I could read topics and the pop-up had disappeared.


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## spacebard (Aug 1, 2009)

spacebard said:


> I had the same problem. I had to close Firefox and when I got back on TGP, I could read topics and the pop-up had disappeared.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

I checked some threads there yesterday while looking up reviews on something, and in every one of them the P&L crowd was out loud and proud. That place really does live up to its reputation at times.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

colchar said:


> I checked some threads there yesterday while looking up reviews on something, and in every one of them the P&L crowd was out loud and proud. That place really does live up to its reputation at times.


Profit & Loss? Damned accountants.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

It ain’t so bad. There are hundreds of threads each day, not all P&W dominated. And I like those guys most times. In recent years they’ve driven the market, have massive gear collections and love to geek out on it. Heck, it’s like a gear page of some sort,. crazy how they also manage to balance things and get along.


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

I have been on TGP for about the same time as here. 14 years. I mentioned the word "Trump" once in post once on TGP and got a warning. I thought it was a little ridiculous.
I have decided to try and primarily contribute to all internet forums that I frequent. To try and help folks out with informative and positive posts where possible. I get a little carried away in the Politics forum here once in a while. Only because I care, I am passionate about some things, and I pay way too much GD taxes. I have taken a liking to watching my "likes versus posts" stats on all forums I frequent. I use it as a bit of a temperature as to see how I am contributing. A 1:1 average of # of posts and # of likes is a personal goal. If I can get there, I figure I am probably behaving pretty reasonably on the internet. We all have bad days and let loose on occasion. It's the average that I go by. Just a silly guideline I have for myself...


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

keithb7 said:


> have taken a liking to watching my "likes versus posts" stats on all forums I freque





keithb7 said:


> 1:1 average of # of posts and # of likes is a personal goal.


I'm just trying to boost your numbers...


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I’m at 6666 likes. Not just evil, supernaturally evil


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Hoo Lee Futz Vadsy! I thought you were joking!


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Double post,


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I am getting a new ip. Does this mean I can sign up there again and they won't know about my perma-ban?


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

vadsy said:


> I’m at 6666 likes. Not just evil, supernaturally evil


Fixed it for ya'


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## Lucas Vidler (5 mo ago)

I got banned from TGP for starting a thread where I was slightly critical of Suhr - and I mean slightly. 

I had never played a Suhr before. Then I finally got a chance to try out a few models at an upscale shop in a city I was visiting. I posted that they were very nice and clearly well made, but the experience didn’t live up to overwhelming praise that so many seem to lavish them with on the forums. I said their prices seemed reasonable for American handcrafted guitars, but I wouldn’t consider them great values. 

Well, that just set off a _ _ _ _ storm. I immediately had people attacking me and accusing me trolling and trying to “destroy” Suhr. I bent over backward trying to clarify and soften my remarks. Eventually Suhr himself (or maybe his son?) chimed in on the thread. He seemed to be a regular contributor on TGP. So, I sent him a PM expressing my respect for Suhr’s products as well as my apologies for the thread getting out of hand. No response. 

The vitriol increased further. It got to the point that I said I felt people’s responses where way out of proportion to what I considered quite mild criticism. And I suggested that folks were possibly wrapping up their personal identities too much in their gear choices. Shortly afterwards the tread was removed, and I was permanently banned.

Oddly enough, it’s not difficult to find threads on TGP that are very critical of other brands. Threads highly critical of Gibson, for example, are common. I have no problem with that whatsoever. But raise an eyebrow at the wrong brand, however, and risk excommunication. Makes you wonder what brand(s) might be supporting TGP behind the scenes?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Never having been through it, or explored it in any depth, myself, is there anything that exists in between banning and moderator neglect? For instance, do some places have "time outs" of various lengths. like 1 month for first transgression, 3 months for second, and full year for demonstrably problematic (and persistent) behaviour?

I'm the sort who believes in the redemption of people, or their ability to redeem themselves. Not in any religious sense, but rather sometimes a little smack upside the on-line head brings some clarity and self-discipline. There are some past members here who could be aggravating, and cross the line, but were often pleasant, contributing, and fun members...when they remembered to be so. But now they're gone, and I don't know if they're gone forever, or received some time-limited banishment that led to them quitting in protest, or what.

Some clarity?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

TheYanChamp said:


> I've been banned three times, and now it seems to be permanent. Not for breaking their rules, but clearly the mods must be some evangelically enhanced human beings.
> 
> I mean like come'on! Do they block based on IP? Since I had it set to remember my login, I can't log out to use the forum or create a new account.



LOL, if you haven't been banned from TGP, you must be much better at biting your tongue than I am.

It's a safe space for gun love and christianity IMO. It's fine that they have those opinions / beliefs, but they will NOT abide any differing opinions and if you do, they become VERY snowflakish.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

mhammer said:


> Never having been through it, or explored it in any depth, myself, is there anything that exists in between banning and moderator neglect? For instance, do some places have "time outs" of various lengths. like 1 month for first transgression, 3 months for second, and full year for demonstrably problematic (and persistent) behaviour?
> 
> I'm the sort who believes in the redemption of people, or their ability to redeem themselves. Not in any religious sense, but rather sometimes a little smack upside the on-line head brings some clarity and self-discipline. There are some past members here who could be aggravating, and cross the line, but were often pleasant, contributing, and fun members...when they remembered to be so. But now they're gone, and I don't know if they're gone forever, or received some time-limited banishment that led to them quitting in protest, or what.
> 
> Some clarity?


There are time limited suspensions and to my knowledge some have been implemented here.

I think when my post count hits 500+ for a month I get a time out


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Milkman said:


> LOL, if you haven't been banned from TGP, you must be much better at biting your tongue than I am.
> 
> It's a safe space for gun love and christianity IMO. It's fine that they have those opinions / beliefs, but they will NOT abide any differing opinions and if you do, they become VERY snowflakish.


Yeah - I must be doing something wrong. I always thought I was pretty irritating - yet no one considers me worthy of banishment. 😕


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## DrumBob (Aug 17, 2014)

I was on TGP for years, and was finally thrown off last year, because I built up points, and in the end, some douchebag complained about something I said. I have no idea what it was. I don't care, because I saw that forum turn into a cesspool for every troll, troublemaker, idiot and retard hiding behind a computer screen or under a rock. I never figured in a religious angle there, but I know some of the mods are holier-than-thou about stuff. If you despise Joe Bonamassa, hate Gibson, and don't wear tan pants and cargo shorts, you'll do OK there.

I just didn't care about TGP anymore, so when they banned me, I fired off a strong email to the Admin and told him what I thought. His response was, "I disagree" He can shove TGP up his ass. Who needs it? 

I ultimately grew tired of the juvenile behavior. I think lots of the jerkoffs at Harmony Central crawled to TGP after that forum closed down. This is a much nicer place.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

We lost some members here some time ago when the site changed ownership, used to be a different place than it is now. Change is inevitable!


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Never having been through it, or explored it in any depth, myself, is there anything that exists in between banning and moderator neglect? For instance, do some places have "time outs" of various lengths. like 1 month for first transgression, 3 months for second, and full year for demonstrably problematic (and persistent) behaviour?
> 
> I'm the sort who believes in the redemption of people, or their ability to redeem themselves. Not in any religious sense, but rather sometimes a little smack upside the on-line head brings some clarity and self-discipline. There are some past members here who could be aggravating, and cross the line, but were often pleasant, contributing, and fun members...when they remembered to be so. But now they're gone, and I don't know if they're gone forever, or received some time-limited banishment that led to them quitting in protest, or what.
> 
> Some clarity?


I can shed some light on this. 

The majority of my "bans" are scammers, and ad bots. sometimes I temp ban members for behavior reasons.. I've banned members for 12 hours, 24 hours, and once or twice a full week. Anything longer than that and chances are it's going to be a permanent ban.

it depends on the severity, and the "repeat" behavior of users.
A couple of people acted out of character once in a while, and they need(ed) a reminder to keep it civil.

Others have pushed every button available to them for years, glued on buttons extra to try harder, and end up at the end either end up telling us off, or ask us to ban them from the site.
I am unaware of any "temp" banned members at this current juncture.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I have no issues with a site establishing guidlines / rules, but my experience with that other site is that there's little or no communication to the offender.

You just suddenly can't sign in and unless you click the "I understand" button, that's where it ends. If you don't do that (which seems to me like an admission of guilt) it's effectly a permanent ban.

Send me a simple message explaining that I'm out of line. I'm always inclined to be civil in my response to criticism.

Add to that the rampant double standards and their inclination to protect one particular religion and gun lovers, and it's far from balanced. It's too bad too, because there are many excellent members there. It could be a great site, but is controlled by very biased people.

If you can't or are unwilling to allow balanced discourse, the topics themselves should be off limits, but that's not how it works there.

I was sent to the corner because I pointed out (in a thread mercilessly ridiculing the Flat Earters) that in a society that has a very high percentage of people who believe in religion, criticizing another belief structure was akin to throwing rocks from a glass house. I didn't mention any group by name. I was very careful with my words.

Nevertheless, Boom! gone, LOL.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

ie, you can make fun of these whackos.








But whatever you do, don't say anything about these ones


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Milkman said:


> Send me a simple message explaining that I'm out of line. I'm always inclined to be civil in my response to criticism.


It'd be nice if that happened here. Instead, it's become an 'alert', with no way to respond.
Now it's being sent using an anonymous moderator account so that one can't send a PM asking for clarification.


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

laristotle said:


> It'd be nice if that happened here. Instead, it's become an 'alert', with no way to respond.
> Now it's being sent using an anonymous moderator account so that one can't send a PM asking for clarification.
> View attachment 433417


We are always available via PM. I don't know who the ? avatar is.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Civility is Sooo easy. I don't know why some folks find it so hard. 

At the same, sometimes folks don't immediately recognize when they've crossed a line. Here, I'm pleasantly reminded of one of my favorite scenes in filmdom, from the movie _My Favorite Year. _Peter O'Toole plays a famous actor, making an appearance on a live TV variety show, modelled on _Your Show of Shows_. A young comedy writer (Benji) on the show is tasked with chaperoning O'Toole's character Alan Swann for the week, to keep him out of trouble, given that Swann has a reputation as a drunk and womanizer. Benji brings Swann to his mother's apartment in Brooklyn for a big fancy sit-down dinner, where the extended family is attending, and all the other residents in the building lined the hallways up to the apartment door, to see the "famous movie star".

One of the family members is Uncle Morty, played by the wonderful Lou Jacobi. Uncle Morty says:
"So Mr. Swann...now that we sat nice, broke bread together, shared a glass of wine, I feel I know you a little better."
"Morty, I feel I know you even better."
"Good, then you won't mind if I ask you a question" (family fusses nervously)
"Morty, ask your question."
"That paternity rap a couple years ago...did you schtup her? Did you go all the way?"

And of course the table erupts, with Uncle Morty asking "What? What?", and wondering what he did that was so bad. His look of "but-I-just-asked-the-guy-a-simple-question" bewilderment is precious.

Sometimes, folks can be like that. Some borders are very clearly marked and bounded, and some are kind of invisible that require a deeper understanding of the lay of the land to know when you've crossed them.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Civility is Sooo easy. I don't know why some folks find it so hard.
> 
> At the same, sometimes folks don't immediately recognize when they've crossed a line. Here, I'm pleasantly reminded of one of my favorite scenes in filmdom, from the movie _My Favorite Year. _Peter O'Toole plays a famous actor, making an appearance on a live TV variety show, modelled on _Your Show of Shows_. A young comedy writer (Benji) on the show is tasked with chaperoning O'Toole's character Alan Swann for the week, to keep him out of trouble, given that Swann has a reputation as a drunk and womanizer. Benji brings Swann to his mother's apartment in Brooklyn for a big fancy sit-down dinner, where the extended family is attending, and all the other residents in the building lined the hallways up to the apartment door, to see the "famous movie star".
> 
> ...


I understand what you're saying, but that doesn't change the double standards.

If Mr. Swann had been making fun of some other womanizer and was THEN asked that simple question, would the shock and embarrassment still be appropriate?

Also, if Morty had asked his question in a more subtle way......?


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

TheYanChamp said:


> I've been banned three times, and now it seems to be permanent. Not for breaking their rules, but clearly the mods must be some evangelically enhanced human beings.
> 
> I mean like come'on! Do they block based on IP? Since I had it set to remember my login, I can't log out to use the forum or create a new account.


Been temp banned three or four times lately. I think I mentioned dumb city policies and got banned for being political. They're the thought police over there. I stopped my paid membership and didn't bother with the site for half a year.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Milkman said:


> I understand what you're saying, but that doesn't change the double standards.
> 
> If Mr. Swann had been making fun of some other womanizer and was THEN asked that simple question, would the shock and embarrassment still be appropriate?
> 
> Also, if Morty had asked his question in a more subtle way......?


My point is that - in the film - he thought it *was* subtle.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

mhammer said:


> My point is that - in the film - he thought it *was* subtle.



And that's the line we have to walk.

If he thought saying that with his mother at the table was subtle, he's not playing with a full deck.


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## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

I was banned from MLP. 
Reason? 
For being a "fuck boy" 🤷🏻‍♂️.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> Been temp banned three or four times lately. I think I mentioned dumb city policies and got banned for being political. They're the thought police over there. I stopped my paid membership and didn't bother with the site for half a year.


One of the challenges with online forums is that, once they begin to feel like a "community", one wants to discuss anything and everything with that community. It could be happy news ("I just lucked into this 1963...", "We just had our first child/grandchild..."), it could be tragic news (loss of job, best friend, pet, etc.). But it could also be matters of broader public relevance.

And *that's* where it can too easily slip into politics, and politics can rupture otherwise peaceable dialogue. Moderators are wise to try and keep matters of politics and religion off-line (i.e., you and I can freely engage in such discussions within the PM context). The trouble is identifying when and how something crosses the line. Let us remember that moderators anywhere are _not_ Supreme Court justices, knowledgable in all the criteria, with an army of law clerks to scan all precedents, and how to apply the criteria. They get interrupted from their everyday lives and have to make a snap decision. In many instances, it is an uncompensated volunteer position, which I'm sure many in that role have pause to wonder if it's all worth the hassle and aggravation. We owe it to them to make those decisions easy and clear, and not wobble on this or that side of the fence/line. Good behaviour, and a little bit of self-editting goes a long way.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

terminalvertigo said:


> We are always available via PM. I don't know who the ? avatar is.


I know. I have asked about ? in the past among all the mods and the replies have been 'no one knows'.
Send a query to VerticleScope to confirm whether or not they're using a mod without your knowledge?
It'd be nice to know, don'cha think?

edit*
I neglected to state that ? changed their avatar.









I never did get a PM.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

The Gear Page is...


BANNED


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

This site is. ..


BANNED


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

laristotle said:


> I know. I have asked about ? in the past among all the mods and the replies have been 'no one knows'.
> Send a query to VerticleScope to confirm whether or not they're using a mod without your knowledge?
> It'd be nice to know, don'cha think?
> 
> ...


That's because we don't know! 

I'm certain their are admins that have a higher purpose forum-wise than myself, but they aren't people I really have a need/requirement to interact with often at my level.

I don't have a burning need to know EVERYONE involved


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Sounds reasonable.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

UGH! But, “told you so” LOL (see post 11 in this thread).

Ever have Pete Thorn threaten to take his ball and go home? Then have a bunch of PMs about how I will ruin TGP if Pete leaves?

Hell of a player and a knowledge guy, but beyond reproach?
TG



Lucas Vidler said:


> I got banned from TGP for starting a thread where I was slightly critical of Suhr - and I mean slightly.
> 
> I had never played a Suhr before. Then I finally got a chance to try out a few models at an upscale shop in a city I was visiting. I posted that they were very nice and clearly well made, but the experience didn’t live up to overwhelming praise that so many seem to lavish them with on the forums. I said their prices seemed reasonable for American handcrafted guitars, but I wouldn’t consider them great values.
> 
> ...


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## puzz (5 mo ago)

I'm a member there and don't find it too bad but I try and stay out of the pub.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

player99 said:


> This site is. ..
> 
> 
> BANNED


Once again I do not understand your post?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

MarkM said:


> Once again I do not understand your post?


If you criticize the forum you get banned.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I'm not sure if there are any Reddit users here, but r/guitar on there is a cesspool as well. If you think gear page moderators are bad you haven't seen anything. I can't remember what advice someone was giving a new player (I think it was something a basic setup would fix and they were suggesting something drastic). But I was banned for saying "that's not very good advice".


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

I find reffing soccer/hockey in my past has had a notable affect on the way I try to moderate.

You need to know when to blow the whistle...when to let the play develop, or play advantage..
Not everything is a yellow card/bannable offense.

The goal is always to be invisible to the "players" and not influence the game, because you like the sound of your whistle.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

When I played hockey, I had high respect for the refs...I could see how difficult a task it would be for me; I enjoyed the reffing at our Oldtimer games.


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## puzz (5 mo ago)

torndownunit said:


> I'm not sure if there are any Reddit users here, but r/guitar on there is a cesspool as well. If you think gear page moderators are bad you haven't seen anything. I can't remember what advice someone was giving a new player (I think it was something a basic setup would fix and they were suggesting something drastic). But I was banned for saying "that's not very good advice".


Reddit is weird and because of the huge numbers involved I don't post much. The Gear Page is large as well and seems to attract many but the advice is better given and taken when it comes to guitars. As for people getting banned, just remember that it is all about knowing where you are and that you may need to adjust your behavior accordingly. You are a visitor in someone else's place and you chose to be there, no one is forcing you to stay or say anything.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

mhammer said:


> One of the challenges with online forums is that, once they begin to feel like a "community", one wants to discuss anything and everything with that community. It could be happy news ("I just lucked into this 1963...", "We just had our first child/grandchild..."), it could be tragic news (loss of job, best friend, pet, etc.). But it could also be matters of broader public relevance.
> 
> And *that's* where it can too easily slip into politics, and politics can rupture otherwise peaceable dialogue. Moderators are wise to try and keep matters of politics and religion off-line (i.e., you and I can freely engage in such discussions within the PM context). The trouble is identifying when and how something crosses the line. Let us remember that moderators anywhere are _not_ Supreme Court justices, knowledgable in all the criteria, with an army of law clerks to scan all precedents, and how to apply the criteria. They get interrupted from their everyday lives and have to make a snap decision. In many instances, it is an uncompensated volunteer position, which I'm sure many in that role have pause to wonder if it's all worth the hassle and aggravation. We owe it to them to make those decisions easy and clear, and not wobble on this or that side of the fence/line. Good behaviour, and a little bit of self-editting goes a long way.


The real challenge, is that people have lost their ability to disagree respectfully.

As a teenager I used to have strong political opinion, so did my closest friend, except we were on the opposite of the spectrum philosophically. We used to discuss a lot, but never argue nor lost respect in the other for seeing the world through a different lenses.

Nowadays, especially with the anonymity of internet, everything is black and white. You either get it or you don’t, you’re either one of us or not, you’re part of the solution or you’re the problem… especially on topics people feel strongly about.
Except, it feels to me the list of topics to avoid keeps growing.

Once on TGP I stumbled upon a thread, where the purpose was to comment on an artist video. One member comment, while not offensive like many others, did not sit well with another member and soon people started to fall on the original sinner with personal attack.

The real challenge is to provide a safe place to express your opinion without stepping on anyone insecurities. It’s community versus tribalism.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

It's* mostly* American.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Derek_T said:


> The real challenge, is that people have lost their ability to disagree respectfully.
> 
> As a teenager I used to have strong political opinion, so did my closest friend, except we were on the opposite of the spectrum philosophically. We used to discuss a lot, but never argue nor lost respect in the other for seeing the world through a different lenses.
> 
> ...


Amen!

I'm always astounded when I can actually engage in a civil, constructive argument with someone, specifically on the internet but to a larger degree in society as a whole.

I think you nailed it. People would rather be offended and defend their position than engage in a discourse that may lead to the possibility of growth or further understanding or heaven forbid..... you might even be wrong.

I have always enjoyed a good healthy debate, argument if you will, but it is not often where I find I get angry about it. That serves no purpose.

I also don't agree with taboo or off limit topics. I do understand that there is a necessity especially in light of your previous comment and I would agree that a guitar forum is definitly not the platform to launch one's political ideals


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

Mark Brown said:


> People would rather be offended and defend their position than engage in a discourse that may lead to the possibility of growth or further understanding or heaven forbid..... you might even be wrong.


I agree, as soon as the ego kicks in, forget about understanding or growth opportunities, it’s just about winning the argument.
How do I know ? Well… as a teenager I used to have strong political opinions .


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Derek_T said:


> I agree, as soon as the ego kicks in, forget about understanding or growth opportunities, it’s just about winning the argument.
> How do I know ? Well… as a teenager I used to have strong political opinions .


I'm just an asshole  

Seriously though. The whole point of debate is not to prove that someone is wrong but to show that you are right. If someone chooses not to be wrong, you cannot force it upon them, you can only offer sufficient evidence to the contrary. The choice is still theirs to make. That may not be the most eloquent way to say it, but it conveys my meaning.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Derek_T said:


> The real challenge, is that people have lost their ability to disagree respectfully.
> 
> As a teenager I used to have strong political opinion, so did my closest friend, except we were on the opposite of the spectrum philosophically. We used to discuss a lot, but never argue nor lost respect in the other for seeing the world through a different lenses.
> 
> ...


As I frequently note, here and elsewhere, the anonymity of the Internet tends to extract the worst in people, if they don't restrain themselves. I don't doubt that I could have a pleasant afternoon on the deck with any of the folks who may have been banned here or on other forums. But when one is anonymous and has only words, and some emoticons, to accomplish what tone of voice, facial expression, hand gestures, pacing/spacing of speech, the ability to easily refer to what your conversant just said, and the opportunity to constructively interrupt when things are going in a confusing direction, normally accomplish, things can go south easily and quickly, if one isn't vigilant.

Yes, the Internet, and current culture, does tend to attract teenagers and nurture the adolescent in those who haven't been teens in many years. But it's not ALL teens. Many nominal "adults" are in there, and readily lapse into their Grade 10 selves with minimal prompting.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

mhammer said:


> One of the challenges with online forums is that, once they begin to feel like a "community", one wants to discuss anything and everything with that community. It could be happy news ("I just lucked into this 1963...", "We just had our first child/grandchild..."), it could be tragic news (loss of job, best friend, pet, etc.). But it could also be matters of broader public relevance.
> 
> And *that's* where it can too easily slip into politics, and politics can rupture otherwise peaceable dialogue. Moderators are wise to try and keep matters of politics and religion off-line (i.e., you and I can freely engage in such discussions within the PM context). The trouble is identifying when and how something crosses the line. Let us remember that moderators anywhere are _not_ Supreme Court justices, knowledgable in all the criteria, with an army of law clerks to scan all precedents, and how to apply the criteria. They get interrupted from their everyday lives and have to make a snap decision. In many instances, it is an uncompensated volunteer position, which I'm sure many in that role have pause to wonder if it's all worth the hassle and aggravation. We owe it to them to make those decisions easy and clear, and not wobble on this or that side of the fence/line. Good behaviour, and a little bit of self-editting goes a long way.


That's true for sure but they take it a little too far when they refuse to discuss the reason for the ban and then ban you again when you talk about being banned lol. This forum is a lot more relaxed and bad things rarely happen here.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Mark Brown said:


> I'm just an asshole
> 
> Seriously though. The whole point of debate is not to prove that someone is wrong but to show that you are right. If someone chooses not to be wrong, you cannot force it upon them, you can only offer sufficient evidence to the contrary. The choice is still theirs to make. That may not be the most eloquent way to say it, but it conveys my meaning.


Ha, reminds of a recent article I read in a medical journal. It was about overconfidence. The intelligent, inquisitive minds tend to question everything and have doubts that their decisions are the best and tend to want to discuss and consider options. The less intelligent minds are unable to comprehend that there might be another side to the story so they come across as supremely confident that their opinions are not only accurate but that everyone who disagrees with them are idiots. A bit like Dunning / Kruger. @mhammer would know a lot more about this than me.


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)




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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

1SweetRide said:


> Ha, reminds of a recent article I read in a medical journal. It was about overconfidence. The intelligent, inquisitive minds tend to question everything and have doubts that their decisions are the best and tend to want to discuss and consider options. The less intelligent minds are unable to comprehend that there might be another side to the story so they come across as supremely confident that their opinions are not only accurate but that everyone who disagrees with them are idiots. A bit like Dunning / Kruger. @mhammer would know a lot more about this than me.


I spend at least half of my time trying to convince myself I have no idea what I am talking about and the other half just trying to figure out what I mean.

There are much simpler modals to learn this sage advice from my friend then having to wade into the wide world of social psychology one could simply paraphrase:
"I know that I know nothing"


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Mark Brown said:


> I spend at least half of my time trying to convince myself I have no idea what I am talking about and the other half just trying to figure out what I mean.
> 
> There are much simpler modals to learn this sage advice from my friend then having to wade into the wide world of social psychology one could simply paraphrase:
> "I know that I know nothing"


I'm sure you know something but the stuff we don't know is infinitely larger that what we do.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

mhammer said:


> As I frequently note, here and elsewhere, the anonymity of the Internet tends to extract the worst in people, if they don't restrain themselves. I don't doubt that I could have a pleasant afternoon on the deck with any of the folks who may have been banned here or on other forums. But when one is anonymous and has only words, and some emoticons, to accomplish what tone of voice, facial expression, hand gestures, pacing/spacing of speech, the ability to easily refer to what your conversant just said, and the opportunity to constructively interrupt when things are going in a confusing direction, normally accomplish, things can go south easily and quickly, if one isn't vigilant.
> 
> Yes, the Internet, and current culture, does tend to attract teenagers and nurture the adolescent in those who haven't been teens in many years. But it's not ALL teens. Many nominal "adults" are in there, and readily lapse into their Grade 10 selves with minimal prompting.


True, it’s very easy to dismiss someone on internet based on a comment or an opinion. Anonymity is a double edge sword, it’s easy to forget it’s a real human being behind.
People are complex, but internet make it seems like they are not. When you reduce someone to an opinion you get rid of the nuance. I don't think people are bad as much as unconsciously biased, we all have blind spot.
I found "Behave" by Robert Sapolsky to be quite enlightening on that matter.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 433682


You got me at Ricky Gervais


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> That's true for sure but they take it a little too far when they refuse to discuss the reason for the ban and then ban you again when you talk about being banned lol. This forum is a lot more relaxed and bad things rarely happen here.


Like I said, the people who enforce regulations are never selected for hire because they possess the wisdom of Solomon, aren't compensated more if they happen to have it, and aren't sent for training to acquire it. Some moderators are good at clarifying the reasons for a ban, while others might be good at it if only they had the time to do so, instead of barely coping with a huge volume of posts.

Here, we are blessed with a modest volume of posts, a relatively pleasant membership, and moderators with good judgment (even if they sometimes have to be a bit tight-lipped).

As an about-to-be former public servant, you will have no doubt either filled out the employee survey, or at least been subject to contending with the results for your unit. I will note that at no time since it started in 1999, was anyone ever asked: "How often is your work unit describable as being like a pressure cooker?" (never, sometimes, often, constantly). My graduate training is from a contextualist perspective. Circumstances tend to make the person more than we often admit.

(Oh yeah, and your reference to Dunning-Kruger was reasonably on point).


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## markxander (Oct 24, 2009)

Derek_T said:


> The real challenge, is that people have lost their ability to disagree respectfully.
> 
> As a teenager I used to have strong political opinion, so did my closest friend, except we were on the opposite of the spectrum philosophically. We used to discuss a lot, but never argue nor lost respect in the other for seeing the world through a different lenses.
> 
> ...


isn't the moral of this story that you could disagree because you were already best friends, not that everybody else in the world has forgotten how to disagree?


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

markxander said:


> isn't the moral of this story that you could disagree because you were already best friends, not that everybody else in the world has forgotten how to disagree?


Moral is a big word, you're giving me too much credit my friend . I just thought it would made for a cool anecdote to include but there's not much to read into about the state of the world.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

puzz said:


> Reddit is weird and because of the huge numbers involved I don't post much. The Gear Page is large as well and seems to attract many but the advice is better given and taken when it comes to guitars. As for people getting banned, just remember that it is all about knowing where you are and that you may need to adjust your behavior accordingly. You are a visitor in someone else's place and you chose to be there, no one is forcing you to stay or say anything.


Ya that's the thing, as bad as gear page is I'll generally get the information I am looking for. The posts on r/guitar are generally completely useless. There are better guitar subs, it's just obviously the biggest one and the one people end up in because of the name.

I disagree about gear page's banning though. You will get banned for completely innocuous comments, and never get any explanation as to what you even did The mods are on complete power trips there. It's the worst forum I have been a member of in that regard by far.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I don't think TGP is bad at all. 

I just know from experience that there are obvious "protected" groups there and that they use double standards in moderating the site.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

It's nice to see you resurrected a thread that's bringing me some likes.

Weird I posted the image without more context. 


I told Heffalump that my 9 year old seems to like his gibson from 2015. He then went on to say that it seems like a guitar 9 year olds would like. He was a douche.

@mhammer that got me banned for a week or two (I saw you ask about that above).


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## AJ6stringsting (Mar 12, 2006)

Harmony Central , had a Neo Nazi guy posting racist rants and other verbal diarrhea.... for years.
Then I posted counter arguements to his, it offended one of the " Bais " mediators .....I got banned for it .
Gibson ( who own Harmony Central ) gave tons of money to Trump in 2016 and 2020 .... go figure.

The Gear Page is just as bad .
Fascism, is a very serious issue in America right now..
Besides Gibson's outrageous prices, many Americans are not buying Gibson, because they support Trumpism.


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## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

AJ6stringsting said:


> Harmony Central , had a Neo Nazi guy posting racist rants and other verbal diarrhea.... for years.
> Then I posted counter arguements to his, it offended one of the " Bais " mediators .....I got banned for it .
> Gibson ( who own Harmony Central ) gave tons of money to Trump in 2016 and 2020 .... go figure.
> 
> ...


What do you expect from a company the cuts down rare trees in rain forests for guitars doctors and lawyers hang on walls?


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## Skynyrds Innyrds (5 mo ago)

AJ6stringsting said:


> many Americans are not buying Gibson, because they support Trumpism.



Proof?


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Skynyrds Innyrds said:


> Proof?


because he says so.


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## AJ6stringsting (Mar 12, 2006)

Skynyrds Innyrds said:


> Proof?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## AJ6stringsting (Mar 12, 2006)

Skynyrds Innyrds said:


> Proof?











Gibson guitars represent Tennessee in Trump's 'Made in America Product Showcase'


President Donald Trump didn’t pick and grin, but he did share the stage with Gibson guitars at a White House event on Monday.



www.commercialappeal.com


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

AJ6stringsting said:


> many Americans are not buying Gibson, because they support Trumpism





AJ6stringsting said:


> https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/17/poli...ca-showcase-protectionist-rhetoric/index.html
> View attachment 434166





AJ6stringsting said:


> Gibson guitars represent Tennessee in Trump's 'Made in America Product Showcase'
> 
> 
> President Donald Trump didn’t pick and grin, but he did share the stage with Gibson guitars at a White House event on Monday.
> ...


Nowhere in those articles does it say anything about people not buying Gibsons because of him.
In fact, there should be more support because of policies that he espouses.
Here's one, from the first article;

_Surrounded by Gibson guitars, Stetson cowboy hats and other "Made in America" products, (#45) promised to "stand up" for American companies and their employees, warning that the US would take retaliatory action against other countries' "unfair trade practices." _

Are you trying to tell us that many don't support US manufacturing (and the jobs that they produce) and prefer overseas because of him? yourself included?


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## AJ6stringsting (Mar 12, 2006)

laristotle said:


> Nowhere in those articles does it say anything about people not buying Gibsons because of him.
> In fact, there should be more support because of policies that he espouses.
> Here's one, from the first article;
> 
> ...


Many musicians are avoiding Gibson for political reason, QC issues, high prices and their suing frenzy .
Gibson is not loved by the younger Generation.


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## AJ6stringsting (Mar 12, 2006)

vadsy said:


> 1. yes, IP
> 2. yes, evangelical


Trumpian Evilvangelicals = the New AmeriKKKan Nazi party

I can't wait for the Winning 🤴 King Donald Bible !!!!


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

AJ6stringsting said:


> Trumpian Evilvangelicals = the New AmeriKKKan Nazi party
> 
> I can't wait for the Winning 🤴 King Donald Bible !!!!


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

AJ6stringsting said:


> Many musicians are avoiding Gibson for political reason


Still doesn't say anything about that in the articles that you provided as proof to Skynyrds Innyrds post #104.
Get some help man. Your fixation on #45 is eating away at your brain.


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## Skynyrds Innyrds (5 mo ago)

AJ6stringsting said:


> View attachment 434166




Well that proves your claim 👍


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## Skynyrds Innyrds (5 mo ago)

AJ6stringsting said:


> Many musicians are avoiding Gibson for political reason, QC issues, high prices and their suing frenzy .
> Gibson is not loved by the younger Generation.



Once again - got proof?

As for the alleged QC issues, stop believing internet lore. I've owned about 15 Gibsons and never had issues with any of them.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

lol at "Skynyrds Innyrds" ... great name.


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## puzz (5 mo ago)

A member named Colchar posted something about Skynyrds Innyrds once on My Les Paul forum. He was banned over there.


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## Skynyrds Innyrds (5 mo ago)

Milkman said:


> I have no issues with a site establishing guidlines / rules, but my experience with that other site is that there's little or no communication to the offender.
> 
> You just suddenly can't sign in and unless you click the "I understand" button, that's where it ends. If you don't do that (which seems to me like an admission of guilt) it's effectly a permanent ban.



They use that system to give warnings. I got one and asked a mod about it - why I had been warned, etc. because I wanted clarification. He responded, which was fine but it didn't all make sense so I continued the conversation seeking further clarification and got banned for a week for "repeatedly disagreeing with a mod".


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## Skynyrds Innyrds (5 mo ago)

Thunderboy1975 said:


> I was banned from MLP.
> Reason?
> For being a "fuck boy" 🤷🏻‍♂️.



One of the mods over there has real issues, another is a former cop who loves having power again. He used to be a good guy, but now lives up to the saying "instant asshole, just add badge".

And he has also been involved in some way or another with every famous criminal ever to exist in the US right back to the Lindburgh baby. Go ahead, just ask him.

I believe Alex the owner, who is a decent guy, might also own TGP. He owned MLP and some other sites, but they are now all listed together as sister sites on each forum including TDPRI and Strat Talk. Either he bought them all, or sold the ones he owned.


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## Skynyrds Innyrds (5 mo ago)

puzz said:


> A member named Colchar posted something about Skynyrds Innyrds once on My Les Paul forum. He was banned over there.



It is the name of Skynyrd's biggest selling album, not a secret code:




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skynyrd%27s_Innyrds


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Illuminati!


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