# Recording (tips, suggestions, personal experiences)



## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

Hello folks. I have an interest in recording my amp sound to maximum effect. I've never had a microphone or much experience recording sound besides a handheld mic which has long outlived its day. 

So I guess generally I'm asking after peoples' experience in the matter of recording their guitar at home through an amplifier at "bedroom" volumes. And perhaps you also have some useful value propositions. I'd obviously not like to spend too much money and may consider a nice compromise. I've had someone suggest to me a microphone that can surface with a Smartphone, but I haven't found any useful options down that avenue. So have at it please and educate me with good sense and experience. 

Cheers!


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

What software do you plan to use for managing the sound you record? Do you have a laptop or desktop computer instead of your smartphone? Do you want to record just one thing at a time and layer them up or maybe just one thing at a time? Or do you want to record with several mics at once?

For a bare bones start to see if you've got stuff in you that needs recording more than once maybe start with a USB condensor microphone like an AT2020USB or similar running into Audacity or Reaper or Garageband if you're a Mac person. Lots of places to go from there but that basic setup will still be good if you want to go down and record your grandpa playing his harmonica some time in the future. 

j


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

This will help you understand mic placement.


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

Sketchy Jeff said:


> What software do you plan to use for managing the sound you record? Do you have a laptop or desktop computer instead of your smartphone? Do you want to record just one thing at a time and layer them up or maybe just one thing at a time? Or do you want to record with several mics at once?
> 
> For a bare bones start to see if you've got stuff in you that needs recording more than once maybe start with a USB condensor microphone like an AT2020USB or similar running into Audacity or Reaper or Garageband if you're a Mac person. Lots of places to go from there but that basic setup will still be good if you want to go down and record your grandpa playing his harmonica some time in the future.
> 
> j


I have a laptop (Lenovo y520)a windows 10 system and adequate in all technical ways. I do not have recording software however. A usb mic does not require an interface and all that?


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I use Blue Yeti mic’s into GarageBand for almost everything. Mic placement, room treatments, and soundproofing are other considerations. Of the two Yeti mic’s, one is hotter than the other so I use them according to that quality.


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

Grab n Go said:


> This will help you understand mic placement.


Thank you, actually those Albini videos are what sort of spurned my quest for recording equipment. So I will be rewatching that series.


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## Griff (Sep 7, 2016)

The 'standard' mics for guitar are the Shure SM-57 ($130) and the Sennheiser E609 ($130) or E906 ($260). My preference of the 3 is the E906, which also happens to be the most expensive of the group at around $260 at L&M (though it sometimes goes on sale for quite a bit less). The e609 would be my next favourite, and I don't feel like the improvements on the e906 are worth double the price.

I use that mic, plugged into my Focusrite audio interface, plugged into my Mac laptop, which came with Garageband. I bought a Focusrite Pro before firewire became extinct. It's not offered anymore but the model I bought was around $400. The cheapest Focusrite Scarlett appears to be about $170. 

So the mic ($130-$260)
the interface ($170-$400)
the cables ($30-$60)
and the software (free maybe? https://garagebandonpc.com/ - I have no idea what's involved with that but it's worth looking into as Garageband is very easy to use and is of high enough quality)


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

Thank you for the suggestions so far. Does the Yeti require an interface, anyone? 
And are there other arrangements that could work well. I could expect as much that I would need about 3 pieces of equipment to record. Thanks again guys.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

The Yeti does not require an interface and is great value - I have one and it is very versatile. If you already have some decent mics, then you may want to consider an interface over a USB mic. The Scarlett 2i2 seems to be the most popular starting point - it's what I have and I've been very happy.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

If you want to record guitar you need an interface and a DAW. Get a Scarlett 2i2 and Reaper which is free to try or $60 to purchase. After that I would try a free version of Guitar Rig or Amplitude or similar. Then pick up a used Shure 57 and try micing your amp and see if you prefer that or the amp sims I mentioned. You can also use the 57 for vocals or anything really. Guitar amps generally sound their best when they are turned up loud.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

You will not be great at recording overnight. Much like guitar, it takes a long time to really get good at it. And once you've recorded audio, you now have the path of learning what to do with that audio - how to mold it further to create the sound in your head.

Any reason in particular you want to mic a cab at low volume in your bedroom versus the other methods available at a similar price point?


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## Destropiate (Jan 17, 2007)

Reaper is a full featured recording program that you can try for free for as long as you want with no limitations. It's a good way to get your hands on a DAW without having to shell out any cash. There are also lots of support and tutorial videos for Reaper to get you going. A pretty common setup for basic home recording is
Shure SM 57 or 58
Audio Techinca AT2020
Focusrite Scarlett 2i2

Recording an amp at bedroom volumes will be problematic no matter what gear you get though. It's hard to get a good recorded guitar tone unless the mic gets a nice hot signal. Turning the mic preamp way up on the back end can add a lot of white noise.
A lot of guys who record demos at home are using modelers or recording their amps direct with Cab simulations for that reason.
If you are looking to be able to record yourself playing to have a way to save riffs, or send parts to band mates etc...you could get a good USB Mic, download Reaper or any other DAW and you would be all set.


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

I do want to avoid DI modelling considering I have a few amps at my disposal and would like to get a grip on some of the nuances of mic'ing cabs/combos, and it doesn't have to be whisper quiet. I'm just not likely to find much occasion to record my amps @ anything past 9 o'clock on the master. My Marshall Mini Silver Jubilee will likely be the starting point because I can switch down to 5W. 
I would obviously try a DI for ease of use and writing/composition purposes, maybe get some experience multitracking.
All of this is really helpful and I really appreciate all of your inputs.


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

Also, I would like to secure the option of recording acoustic guitar as well. Blending and tracking that with electrics ought to be a worthy challenge.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Mutant_Guitar said:


> Also, I would like to secure the option of recording acoustic guitar as well. Blending and tracking that with electrics ought to be a worthy challenge.


You want to mic that so to do that you need Microphone - Interface - DAW.

Shure 57 - Scarelett 2i2 - Reaper


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

Budda said:


> You will not be great at recording overnight. Much like guitar, it takes a long time to really get good at it. And once you've recorded audio, you now have the path of learning what to do with that audio - how to mold it further to create the sound in your head.
> 
> Any reason in particular you want to mic a cab at low volume in your bedroom versus the other methods available at a similar price point?





Budda said:


> You will not be great at recording overnight. Much like guitar, it takes a long time to really get good at it. And once you've recorded audio, you now have the path of learning what to do with that audio - how to mold it further to create the sound in your head.
> 
> Any reason in particular you want to mic a cab at low volume in your bedroom versus the other methods available at a similar price point?


I don't really have a sound-room, I just have two rooms in the upstairs. My bedroom I use for playing and some practice, and I have a study in which I almost strictly practice with materials from the laptop or books/papers. In the study I have a Fender ProJRIII (15W) running into an RC-300 Loopstation which I use to leash/attenuate the volume to mostly fine effect. But I try to compromise with other people in the house by only going full-bore when its empty.


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

Griff said:


> The 'standard' mics for guitar are the Shure SM-57 ($130) and the Sennheiser E609 ($130) or E906 ($260). My preference of the 3 is the E906, which also happens to be the most expensive of the group at around $260 at L&M (though it sometimes goes on sale for quite a bit less). The e609 would be my next favourite, and I don't feel like the improvements on the e906 are worth double the price.
> 
> I use that mic, plugged into my Focusrite audio interface, plugged into my Mac laptop, which came with Garageband. I bought a Focusrite Pro before firewire became extinct. It's not offered anymore but the model I bought was around $400. The cheapest Focusrite Scarlett appears to be about $170.
> 
> ...


What are the distinctions you've made or have occurred to you between those mics?


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

To crank it, buy/build an isolation box?


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Listen to some, or even many isolated tracks on YouTube. Many times that perfect sound in the complete track has a less than lovely tone in isolation. James Jamerson bass tracks are like that. 

Don't let perfection become the enemy of good. A Night at the Opera is a record chasing perfection. Literally anything recorded by Hound Dog Taylor is absolutely imperfect, but just as enjoyable.

Tuning matters, tempo/tightness/groove are all related. Metronome microsecond tightness sounds artificial, too loose with time and it gets too sloppy and amateurish sounding. Led Zeppelin is the poster child for almost too sloppy, but still in the groove. I credit that all to JPJ. IMNSHO, JPJ is the heart/soul/backbone of Zeppelin. YMMV.

Decide what you want to acomplish. Are you trying to create a document; evidence of a song you wrote or recorded, or are you trying to create sonic art? 

Rick Beato's What Makes This Song Great videos on YouTube are an awesome resource.


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

Paul M said:


> Listen to some, or even many isolated tracks on YouTube. Many times that perfect sound in the complete track has a less than lovely tone in isolation. James Jamerson bass tracks are like that.
> 
> Don't let perfection become the enemy of good. A Night at the Opera is a record chasing perfection. Literally anything recorded by Hound Dog Taylor is absolutely imperfect, but just as enjoyable.
> 
> ...


Thank you, that is very enlightening, I think you nailed it that music has to happen as much or even more than it is prepared for. I have followed Rick's output over the years. I don't recall how I stumbled upon his videos, but I found his breakdowns very very entertaining and edifying. 
I want to write/compose/do-it-all/improvise. I am not so concerned with putting out sonic art, but I have a taste for some. I would rather like to produce something stately and objectively "good" (as I'm sure most aim to do).


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

Mutant_Guitar said:


> A usb mic does not require an interface and all that?


That's correct. With all due respect to others who have posted good advice about interfaces and iso-cabs and room setup and mic placement I think the first thing you want to decide is if you've got enough stuff in your head to keep on recording after a first try. So a USB mic like the Yeti somebody else suggested or the AT2020USB or lots of others just plugs into your computer and you select it in your recording software and off you go. Once you wish you had more stuff for more complicated setups then you go shopping for more gear but it would be disappointing to buy a bunch of stuff and then realize that you only had one recording in your head and once it was done the stuff just sat around unused. 

Several have suggested Reaper. It's really good. It can do a lot of stuff and you can easilly get discouraged and/or distracted with it. There are very good tutorial videos with it. Stick to the ones for beginner recording and don't dabble too much in all the other stuff it can also do until you've got the basics nailed down. 

Some people laugh I don't care but for basic one or two-track at a time recording Audacity is very good and the learning curve is shorter. You can layer lots of tracks - I think it maxes out around 28 - but if you're just recording one (through a USB mic) or two (with a small interface like Focusrite 2i2) there's no need for Reaper or Ableton's ability to record a bunch of tracks at the same time. 

j


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

@Sketchy Jeff 
Thanks Jeff.
About 10 years ago I did use audacity with a straight line-in signal and sometimes acoustic guitar. And ofcourse it was scrummy and scraggly but I did get some concept of improvisation and harmony out of it. I do believe I'll be knuckling down for the longhaul and won't discourage easy. But I pulled the trigger on a 2i2 interface just for the chance to record in silence while folks are sleeping and neighbours are cleaning their rifles.
Sound advice, and thank you.
Also I have a fair bit of experience tinkering around in DAWs like Fruity Loops, and Reason. But haven't tangled with that mess in about 3-5years. So I think I would at least be comfortable with using a new interface.
I guess with a 2i2 I can at least dabble with modelling sound and recording/tracking, and I should receive it soon  hope for the best.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

You'll also need some headphones and/or studio monitors.


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

Mutant_Guitar said:


> @Sketchy Jeff
> ofcourse it was scrummy and scraggly


no software reason that needs to be so could have been all sorts of other stuff in your signal chain 
i did a project last winter assembling a vocal choir with individually recorded tracks put together in audacity since that's what some of the other people helping me edit sound were able to use. it's got way more than the max number of tracks i put all the choral sections together and then assembled them and the instruments in a final mix so about 50 tracks in total if i recall correctly. it's got some issues  but not from recorded sound quality or the software's ability to manage it. 

unless you're recording whole groups of players at once or a full set of separate percussion kit mics that 2i2 should get you a long way down the road

i've got a project this winter working with an elderly man i know who plays harmonica. his daughter records him playing in his favourite room in his house on her iphone and i import that file into a DAW and arrange his playing with other instruments and vocals. the sound quality on the iphone tracks is great there's no reason not to get great quality recorded sound these days

j


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

My advice is just practical strategy. A broad overview, food for thought.

Don't get too hung up on "the right gear", use whatever you have or assemble the minimum and just start recording. More gear will be an improvement but these days even budget gear can be pretty decent. People have drawers of this stuff sitting unused, just ask a musician or two.

Essentially, sticking a mic in front of an amp isn't difficult at all. A 10 minute cruise of youtube and you get the basic idea of placement etc. After that, it comes down to just trying variations and recording.

The great thing about simply mic-ing an amp (IMO) is that it sounds authentic. Countless classic guitar tracks used this technique and they still represent the benchmark of great recorded tones.
It is amazing how many convoluted "problem solving" gizmos have made their way into the guitar recording signal path over the years. You almost can't avoid falling into the rabbit hole.

Basically you start with getting your sound right. By this I mean, do whatever it takes to get things sounding great right at the sonic source, inches away from the speaker in this case. In order to do this, you have to "become the mic". Evaluate the sound right where the mic is.

Normally you don't hear your amp with your ears pressed up to the speaker. This is what you are actually recording, not the room sound. (Unless you are adding/blending a second room mic, that is a whole different equation...).

Anyway, you need to get the sound right from the mics perspective. You don't have to put your ear right up to the speaker but... you know, make the adjustments.

Small amps at lower volumes are usually easier to work with. A mic just "listens". Great tone at any volume is great tone.


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

Indeed all sagely advice. I've never mic'd up but I would like to get as neutral of a signal as possible. I primarily play with a clean sound, and would only like to introduce noise/distortion as I choose, rather than dial in a specific tone or set of effects. I don't consider myself a full jazz-man, but I do stick to the ethos of naked/mostly acoustic sound.
And Audacity is a fine program, I was meaning to say that I had not the expertise to dress up the sound, nor the soundcard to really drive my line-in, so what I was getting was literally the guitar cabled to the laptop...a real reference level sound, but pretty miserly compared to the kind of digital modelling out there right now. 
I have blown many thousands of dollars on amplifiers and guitars, so I would like to do them justice but I thank you guys for bracing me back a bit, because I don't need to go down the Mic/pre-amp rabbithole right now...just need enough to be able to record different kinds of sound with clarity.


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

The first rule is,... there are no rules,... well maybe one that I follow regularly when using numerous microphones simultaneously. This would be the 3 to 1 rule which states: 'The distance between any two microphones must be at least three times as great as the distance between the microphone and the source of sound which it is to pick up'.
This will eliminate any phase cancellation issues between microphones,... especially when recording an acoustic drum kit.
















The attached PDF files will show you numerous ways to approach mic placement when recording. Experiment with different mics, amps, guitars, etc., to try and capture the sound you are looking for as every room will deliver a variation in sound due to size and physical material makeup. I have used just about every approach as explained in the PDF's over the last 24 years,... many hours of hit and miss until you learn what works for numerous recording situations and environments,... the sky is the limit here.

A great source of audio engineering information is ' Total Recording' by Dave Moulton along with his 'Golden Ears' ear training course. These are a couple of my go to tools for audio engineering as well as studio construction.
Dave Moulton: Moulton Laboratories :: Product

If you have a room in your house that will be dedicating for the recording process and want to acoustically treat it for a better environment consider looking into a Canadian company called 'Primacoustic' based in Port Coquitlam, British Columbia. They have several pre-made packages for an array of different room sizes.
Primacoustic: Home Music Recording Studio Accoustic Treatment & Setup | Primacoustic



Good luck and have fun.


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

Midnight Rider said:


> The first rule is,... there are no rules,... well maybe one that I follow regularly when using numerous microphones simultaneously. This would be the 3 to 1 rule which states: 'The distance between any two microphones must be at least three times as great as the distance between the microphone and the source of sound which it is to pick up'.
> This will eliminate any phase cancellation issues between microphones,... especially when recording an acoustic drum kit.
> View attachment 390242
> 
> ...


It seems you covered all the bases. I will be coming back to this for reference  thank you


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

just looking at midnight rider's graphic with the choir and reading your thing about an acoustic jazz sound

do you want the recording to sound like the source directly or do you want the recording to sound like it was done in a specific place? 

If you're listening on headphones, should the performance be happening inside your brain or should the performance transport you somewhere else where the musicians are playing?

To take some opposite examples, gregorian chant recordings or other choral recordings often have a lot of very resonant room sound included. It's a little weird to have the inside of my truck cab sound like a 12th c. cathedral but that's the sound of that genre and we get used to it. R&B and pop are very close mic'd and sound like the source itself is right there with you. It's a little wierd to have Kanye in the passenger seat singing to me but that's the sound of that genre and we get used to it. 

I think quite often when people hear a recorded sound and don't like it the problem is with mismatched expectations about how much room is included in the recording and how much the performance feels like it's happening in the listening space. 

So if your first few recordings sound funny try adjusting the mic distance from source for slightly more or less room sound before editing the recorded audio too much

For my preference acoustic guitar should be a bit further away than I first think - 18-24" with the mic axis pointed just in front of my picking hand to minimize left hand sound of fingers on strings

j


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

I guess the criteria for me would change based on where in the house I am, since I do not have a dedicated home studio. More like a series of rooms that equipment migrates to-and-fro. Interim purchase has been a handheld mic so I can sort of gauge the on-the-fly sound of my amps in each room. Not the most forethought on my behalf, as I now have a focusrite Solo AI just sitting on my table doing nothing...so I guess my eventual purchase would be a shure sm57, and 2 small powered monitors, the whole shebang into my laptop, and use audacity or something similar. I'm still not very caught up on reaper, and I would prefer the sound of my actual amps to a DI.


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