# Wide Necks



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I have always wondered why manufacturers don't make their guitars with slightly wider necks. I've heard all the arguments; that a wider neck is not fast enough, it's too wide for smaller hands (that one has a little bit of validity), etc. I think the issue really comes down to cost. If the necks are a little narrower and they make thousands of guitars a year, how much less wood are they using by putting a slightly narrower neck on their guitars. The fact that cheap guitars always have a narrow neck on them. 

As to the speed factor, I don't buy this. Classical guitarists play guitars with necks in the 2" (at the nut) range and these guys can move up and down the neck with the best of them, so there goes that argument out the window. I have large hands and fingers and although I don't touch neighbouring strings like I did when I first started playing, I still do and so do those who have been playing for years. With a tad more space in between the springs it would make for cleaner playing.

Any thoughts on this? Do you agree with my assessment? Why? Do you disagree? Why?


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

I have short fingers, but they are fat. I have always had trouble inadvertently touching adjoining strings. I love thick necks, 1"diameter at the nut, but I dislike a neck which is only 1 5/8" wide at the nut. 1 11/16" or 43mm has become the defacto modern standard, I think that 1 3/4" would be my dream neck.


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## jeremy_green (Nov 10, 2010)

I don't know Flip... my first reaction would be that it would be awkward. 

A classical guitar is designed to be played sitting with the leg on a stool so the neck is inclined. Promoting perfect hand position... 
Standing, with a strap? Sounds like carpel tunnel in waiting to me. 

Personally I like the thin spacing, less distance to travel - you get there quicker.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

I like a wider neck - makes fingerstyle a lot easier, especially as you work your way up the neck and the frets get closer together. It seems that Seagull is the only large scale producer that has a wider neck as standard equipment.

A narrow neck is probably faster, but really, who cares??? For 99.9% of us its not the neck width that is limiting our speed.


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## jeremy_green (Nov 10, 2010)

bw66 said:


> A narrow neck is probably faster, but really, who cares??? For 99.9% of us its not the neck width that is limiting our speed.


bw66, Apparantly there are a LOT... I'd say vast majority of the guitar buying public that care very much about speed. Go to YouTube and search guitar. For every one soulful performance there is 99 shred-fests. This stuff is usually about selling product - not that is anything wrong with that. We all go into business to make money.

Not disagreeing at all - just sayin'


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

bw66 said:


> For 99.9% of us its not the neck width that is limiting our speed.


I'm just saying that for most of us, buying a narrower neck solely for the sake of speed is like a 6', 210 lb, 44 year old man spending a fortune to get a bicycle that is 12 ounces lighter.

And I'm not sure that YouTube is an accurate reflection of the guitar buying public. I would guess that 75% of guitars sold are purchased with the intent of just strumming a few chords around the campfire.


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## jeremy_green (Nov 10, 2010)

bw66 said:


> I'm just saying that for most of us, buying a narrower neck solely for the sake of speed is like a 6', 210 lb, 44 year old man spending a fortune to get a bicycle that is 12 ounces lighter.


LMAO! That's great.



bw66 said:


> And I'm not sure that YouTube is an accurate reflection of the guitar buying public. I would guess that 75% of guitars sold are purchased with the intent of just strumming a few chords around the campfire.


I dont have the facts and figures to argue this, but I used to manage a music store for many years. That was a long time ago (80's) but even then the vast number of guitars we sold were electrics. The customers buying them always wanted "fast" (read low) action". Since then shred died (grunge hit) then was reborn and has seemed to grow exponentially - as demonstrated on YouTube. I could very much be wrong, but I would be extremely surprised if that number has changed.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Of course, most people buying a guitar for the first time and even second and third time, don't know what makes a neck fast. If it's fast and the notes are not clean is it still fast?


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

for me personally - the skinnier and thinner the neck is the better......I've got relatively small hands - and toothpicks for fingers.......the small neck just feels better - more......controllable if that's the word I'm looking for.....just feels right.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

lbrown1 said:


> for me personally - the skinnier and thinner the neck is the better......I've got relatively small hands - and toothpicks for fingers.......the small neck just feels better - more......controllable if that's the word I'm looking for.....just feels right.


The difference between your hands and my hands is the point I'm really trying to make here. I have large hands that are great for removing the tops off of large pickle jars but when it comes to guitars with skinny necks, there is always a bit of buzz here and there. 

I wonder how many people with large hands that start out playing on the cheaper guitars with 1 5/8 necks and get frustrated and quit, would continue if they had a neck in the 1 7/8 to 2" range? It seems guitar mfrs. put more emphasis on a color option for their gits rather than an option that would "fit" different guitar players better. Personally, I would be willing to pay quite a bit more for a guitar that had a wider neck for my size hands.


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## obstructionist (Jan 18, 2007)

FlipFlopFly said:


> Personally, I would be willing to pay quite a bit more for a guitar that had a wider neck for my size hands.


Me too! Any luthiers out there who would build me a classical guitar with a 2-1/4 inch neck?


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

obstructionist said:


> Me too! Any luthiers out there who would build me a classical guitar with a 2-1/4 inch neck?


Probably many. I know that Marc Beneteau (Welcome to Beneteau Guitars) made an extremely wide neck steel string for a customer, it was easily as wide as any classical I've played. The customer's hands are huge and he was used to a classical and 12 string but wanted a 6 string.

I would suggest contacting Josh House (House Guitars | Custom Acoustic Guitars) too. He has made some interesting stuff and a wide neck would be easy for him.

Other luthiers out there would be helpful too. Look for Tony Karol, and Ron Belanger, too.

Peace, Mooh.


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## improvman (Dec 17, 2010)

Hey FlipFlopFly,

I am a new forum member, but I think I can help you. I have been an electric/acoustic guitar player for 7 years and more recently a classical guitar player (traditional technique) for 2 years. Classical guitar is deeply rooted in physical technique and posture and that is why a lot of classically trained rock guitarists have good technique with their electric guitar playing as well. That is where I learned this...

Through my experiences, I have seen other large-handed players who seem to have the same problem. It usually stems from the fact that they are playing with their fingers too flat to the neck (ie. playing with fingers laid flat at a maybe 20 degree angle with the fretboard *as opposed to maybe a 70-90 degree attack*). This means that they are inadvertedly touching several strings at once and these other strings buzz as a result (especially if they let their fingers collapse at the joints). 

Having said this, the best way to make the fretboard approachable at this more direct angle (assuming you are a right handed guitarist) is to slightly lower the left shoulder. *This makes it easier for the hand to wrap around the fretboard and get a more direct attack at the strings with the fingertips looking straight down onto them*. 

If you play standing up, the way to get the most from this is to shorten your guitar strap/make it so that the body of the guitar is inline with the bottom of your chest...I know you don't see many players playing quite this high, but having a lower strap leads to much more tension in the hand and results in incredible hand pains/strain in a matter of minutes.

Just remember that Jimi Hendrix had some of the biggest hands in the business and his playing wasn't too bad was it? In your case, it is probably more about technique then it is about needing a bigger guitar neck.


I hope this helps, feel free to contact me with any other questions,
Jeremy


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

improvman said:


> Hey FlipFlopFly,
> 
> I am a new forum member, but I think I can help you. I have been an electric/acoustic guitar player for 7 years and more recently a classical guitar player (traditional technique) for 2 years. Classical guitar is deeply rooted in physical technique and posture and that is why a lot of classically trained rock guitarists have good technique with their electric guitar playing as well. That is where I learned this...
> 
> ...


Jeremy: Thank you very much. I do know all of that. And while there are many good or even great large handed and large fingered guitarists out there they are still making it harder on themselves by using a narrow neck as there is only so much space in between each string. The faster you play or the more technical the piece, the more buzz and dead strings you'll get, no matter how good you are. I want to eliminate that as much as possible. It's interesting that a common neck size for classical guitars is 2". That is a big difference from the standard 1 11/16". Regards, Flip.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

obstructionist said:


> Me too! Any luthiers out there who would build me a classical guitar with a 2-1/4 inch neck?


My father-in-law conducts the Guelph Symphony Orchestra and has a player in the orchestra who builds custom classical guitars. PM me if you want his name and number. Regards, Flip.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

srv had sausage fingers, and he played a strat. those necks are small


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

cheezyridr said:


> srv had sausage fingers, and he played a strat. those necks are small


The necks might be small, but they're usually a bit wider too.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

bw66 said:


> The necks might be small, but they're usually a bit wider too.


Also, with some of the hard rock music and all the effects and so on, mistakes on the neck are often hid or missed by most listeners.


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## orangegoblin (Aug 8, 2010)

I think it's sorta just personal preference... I have small to medium sized hands (defintely not BIG ahah) and I like the feel of a PRS neck, or an Ibanez... they're just different... anyways just my 2 cents


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2010)

I have small hands. Consequently I dont like wide necks. But I don't like thin necks either. In fact, the most perfect neck for me is a PRS standard carve neck. Fits like a glove.


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## Dahlen (Aug 27, 2009)

*Wider necks*

Hello Threaders to FlipFlopFly's question about wider necks -

I think FlipFlopFly is right on the money when he says neck dimensions are standardized down to the minimum (one or two options) in order to simplify manufacturing and lower costs (while at the same time, manufacturers will put a lot of PR behind the finishes in order to jack up the price). 

If you are playing an electric, and are a Strat or Tele fan, before consulting a luthier, consult Warmoth Custom Guitar Parts - Custom bass and guitar bodies, necks, pickups, pickguards and hardware. They have great options, wider nuts (up to 1 3/4) and fat profiles. At first, I found them to be expensive, and not knowing exactly what I liked, I bought a cheap Strat copy and experimented. I unfretted the board, leveled it flat and glued on a StewMac compound radius board, which allows you to make the board just a little wider. I obtained a nut width of 1.725 inches, and a nice fat neck, 1 full inch thick at the nut and all the way up. Very comfy. I call it my ''Fat Bat Strat''. I put on Golden Age pickups and a Hipshot trem, and I just love it. Just the sheer confort eased my playing and my speed, though I'm not a speed maniac and far from a shredder. To me, a thin neck being better for speed is just not valid. ''Slowhand'' himself has his Strat with a Martin-like neck profile. What's wrong with his speed?? 

I must say though, that my option required a lot of work in readjusting the headstock - and a lot of work in total. Though I'm glad I did it, now that I know what it's like, I wouldn't hesitate to spring for a Warmoth neck. 

Furthermore, as Warmoth says on its site, a fatter neck will sound better, more sustain. Unplugged, it sounds like a low-volume acoustic ( with either 10-48 or 11-49 strings, and a wound G string). My theory is that with thicker wider necks, you can loosen your truss rod right down, so all the string tension is transmitted to the wood, not shared between the wood and the truss rod. (Even though the truss rod sends its share of the tension back to the wood, a truss-rod does not vibrate like strings).

If you're more Gibson than Strat or Tele, you could at least give the PRS wide necks a good look ( 1 & 11/16 of an inch at the nut). I tried out a ''Wide Fat'' neck, I can't remember which model, and found it hardly fat at all. (27/32'' versus the thin at 25/32'' - check it out at the faq section of the PRS site).

On the acoustic side, for many years, I was playing this 12-string Normand that I converted to a six string - width at the nut : 1,87''. Great guitar - loved it. But when I saw how comfy my Fat Bat Strat was, I started to find its neck too thin. So I asked a luthier to make me a custom fat neck. A relatively simple job, because those early Normands had bolt-on necks. But that didn't turn out as expected for reasons too complicated to explain here. So I'm still working on it myself, far too slowly, and could not resist buying a Seagull in the meantime - width at the neck : 1.8''. Great guitar - the SWS - SG model - though the neck profile is a little flat for my tastes.

So all in all, I think comfort is the key. If you're comfy, you'll play better, you'll enjoy it more and you will play longer. Guitar manufacturers should definitely make a little effort in making more options available, to suit different people with different hands. It's that simple.

and PS - a threader mentioned that Jimi Hendrix had large hands. From the videos and pictures I've seen, he had very long delicate fingers, not large wide hands. 

Dahlen


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2010)

The 12 to 6 is nice. Another option;
Get a 7 string and convert that.


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## Dahlen (Aug 27, 2009)

The 12 to 6 is indeed nice. It not only requires a custom nut, but ideally, also requires careful and minute adjustements on the bridge. 
I hadn't thought of converting a 7 string to a 6 string. Interesting. Could be challenging on the bridge side, and pick-up alignments.
Brings to mind what Keith Richards talks about in his book on ''Life'' : converting a 6 string to a 5 string and tune it like a 5-string banjo - open-tuning style : G D G B D. But judging from the pictures and videos, he doesn't respace the stings.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Dahlen said:


> Hello Threaders to FlipFlopFly's question about wider necks -
> 
> I think FlipFlopFly is right on the money when he says neck dimensions are standardized down to the minimum (one or two options) in order to simplify manufacturing and lower costs (while at the same time, manufacturers will put a lot of PR behind the finishes in order to jack up the price).
> 
> ...


Dahlen: Thanks for your great post. Warmoth also have a super wide neck that is 1 7/8" wide at the nut. That is what I would go for, personally. Regards, Flip.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

laristotle said:


> The 12 to 6 is nice. Another option;
> Get a 7 string and convert that.


Yes, I have thought of that. Better yet might be a 12 string and changing it to a six string. The Dean Boca (not available at Canadian dealers) is a nice semi-hollow body or the Italia Rimini.


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