# Another Covid-19 Thread, but science and data heavy...



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I know there are a lot of medical science savvy people out there. Dr. John Campbell puts out frequent YouTube videos on the current state of the Covid-19 virus (SARS-Cov-2). It draws from the current epidemiological and clinical research data. It can be dry, but I found it very informative on what we know, what we don't and would like to know, especially on how it spreads, susceptibility and why it does spread so easily






It might be good for anyone familiar with this type medical science or any science nerd to share this like minded people


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

SARS-Cov-2 and Myocarditis


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

a thought that's been on my mind, is " have we learned anything from this"? If a new virus breaks out a year from now, will we be any better at controlling the spread?


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Lincoln said:


> will we be any better at controlling the spread?


I do not think so.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

Lincoln said:


> a thought that's been on my mind, is " have we learned anything from this"? If a new virus breaks out a year from now, will we be any better at controlling the spread?


Any airborne pathogen.....once it's in your country, and borders are porous to say the least, it's here and will do what it does. Luckily this one is relatively mild on the deadly pathogens scale.


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

Great info. I will add though that many of these longer lasting effects are common to influenza A as well....including lung damage and myocarditis. The exception to this is hypogeusia which is the loss of taste that people with SARS COV2 experience.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

Lincoln said:


> a thought that's been on my mind, is " have we learned anything from this"? If a new virus breaks out a year from now, will we be any better at controlling the spread?


On a more positive note, I hope we've learned not to politicize the next virus. Treat it from the outset as a health risk, plain and simple.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

HighNoon said:


> On a more positive note, I hope we've learned not to politicize the next virus. Treat it from the outset as a health risk, plain and simple.


Yes but no. ’Mah freedumz’ override the common good these days. I don’t get it, but anyways. @laristotle put up a great link the other day, political strategy from about Reagan to now, that more or less shows how we got here, in large measure. That plus the internet, imho.


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## fogdart (Mar 22, 2017)

Lincoln said:


> a thought that's been on my mind, is " have we learned anything from this"? If a new virus breaks out a year from now, will we be any better at controlling the spread?


I have some training in biological contamination and the spread of contamination through my employer. Everyone I work with was screaming at the TV when Canada didn’t shut its borders down in January (to non-citizens and non essential travel) when we first heard about this virus ravaging through Wuhan province. Then again we found ourselves screaming at the TV when we heard that they weren’t going to contact trace the first 3 cases that came thru Pearson and took public transit into the city. That’s when we knew that we were done. At that point it was already too late anyway because those buses full of people from the airport had all been exposed and the countless people they’d contacted since getting off the bus were all potentially exposed too. But it just set the tone for how our country was going to approach this whole thing - without any form of leadership or backbone.

Even developing nations were checking temps at airports and mandating masks before the end of Feb. Our neighbours were in Vietnam on vacation in February when this all started going crazy. They weren’t allowed outside their hotel room without a mask and every time the entered or left a building temps were checked. All non essential business were shuttered. The way that Canada handled this pandemic was a total disaster. Laughable.

Hopefully what we’ve learned is that early lockdown of our borders followed by a two week country wide shutdown/quarantine for EVERYONE would save a lot of time and money in the coming months. Prop up the businesses with support payments for two weeks at 100% rather than months and months at a lower percentage. After which, masks and social distancing etc... until there’s a vaccine. This is what New Zealand did and they’ve only had 2000 cases.

edit: _*self edited for political content*_


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

Yep. Lockdowns have really only shown to be effective in communist countries where they really can enforce a lockdown. And you're absolutely right. Needs to be an immediate response. Now the virus is endemic so it's like trying to catch sand in a fishing net. As for the vaccine, that will be interesting to see as well. Seems like it will be a tough pill (err....shot!) For most to take. 




fogdart said:


> I have some training in biological contamination and the spread of contamination through my employer. Everyone I work with was screaming at the TV when Justin T didn’t shut the borders down in January (to non-citizens and non essential travel) when we first heard about this virus ravaging through Wuhan province. Then again we found ourselves screaming at the TV when JT said that they weren’t going to contact trace the first 3 cases that came thru Pearson and took public transit into the city. That’s when we knew that we were done. At that point it was already too late anyway because those buses full of people from the airport had all been exposed and the countless people they’d contacted since getting off the bus were all potentially exposed too. But it just set the tone for how the Gov was going to approach this whole thing - without any form of leadership or backbone.
> 
> Even developing nations were checking temps at airports and mandating masks before the end of Feb. Our neighbours were in Vietnam on vacation in February when this all started going crazy. They weren’t allowed outside their hotel room without a mask and every time the entered or left a building temps were checked. All non essential business were shuttered. The way our Gov handled this pandemic was a total disaster. Laughable.
> 
> ...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Lincoln said:


> a thought that's been on my mind, is " have we learned anything from this"? If a new virus breaks out a year from now, will we be any better at controlling the spread?


At the scientific and virological level, yes, volumes. Many new approaches to vaccine development.

At the health-care level, a few ugly facts about how frail elderly are cared for, and what needs to be changed there.

At the social-management level, a few things, but probably not enough to override whatever political and social circumstances might exist at that future time.

But probably the one thing everybody has learned is that PANDEMICS ARE FRIGGING EXPENSIVE.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Not panicking doesn't mean not taking action, but it seems that's what was done in the early stages. 

In my ******* of the woods (to bastardize an expression) folks didn't think there was a threat, such is their depth of ignorance, and dare I say it, bigotry. This sort of thing only happens to them folks over there, ie foreigners. 

I told Mrs. Mooh that the damn thing would arrive here late as most things are delayed making the trip up the King's Highway (highway 8), unless something colossally stupid happens. So here we are, some school classes "dismissed", and some small schools in the two counties closed.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Lincoln said:


> a thought that's been on my mind, is " have we learned anything from this"? If a new virus breaks out a year from now, will we be any better at controlling the spread?


i hope so, because its probably not as far away as we may think.
when my wife was admitted to hospital last week, she was tested for both covid as well as "the superbug".


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

mhammer said:


> But probably the one thing everybody has learned is that PANDEMICS ARE FRIGGING EXPENSIVE.


It'll be years before we can afford another one 😕


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Around 14 minutes he gets into the numbers for hospitalization and death rates for age. In the USA. 8 of 10 deaths is 65 and over. Data which confirms what we already know


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Lincoln said:


> a thought that's been on my mind, is " have we learned anything from this"? If a new virus breaks out a year from now, will we be any better at controlling the spread?



Hell no.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

fogdart said:


> I have some training in biological contamination and the spread of contamination through my employer. Everyone I work with was screaming at the TV when Canada didn’t shut its borders down in January (to non-citizens and non essential travel) when we first heard about this virus ravaging through Wuhan province. Then again we found ourselves screaming at the TV when we heard that they weren’t going to contact trace the first 3 cases that came thru Pearson and took public transit into the city. That’s when we knew that we were done. At that point it was already too late anyway because those buses full of people from the airport had all been exposed and the countless people they’d contacted since getting off the bus were all potentially exposed too. But it just set the tone for how our country was going to approach this whole thing - without any form of leadership or backbone.
> 
> Even developing nations were checking temps at airports and mandating masks before the end of Feb. Our neighbours were in Vietnam on vacation in February when this all started going crazy. They weren’t allowed outside their hotel room without a mask and every time the entered or left a building temps were checked. All non essential business were shuttered. The way that Canada handled this pandemic was a total disaster. Laughable.
> 
> ...


Careful. That kind of level-headed criticism of the terrible failures of our governments - especially the federal government - in preparing for and handling this pandemic will get you accused by some of "politicizing" the virus.



HighNoon said:


> On a more positive note, I hope we've learned not to politicize the next virus.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Robert1950 said:


> Around 14 minutes he gets into the numbers for hospitalization and death rates for age. In the USA. 8 of 10 deaths is 65 and over. Data which confirms what we already know


One of the things that I feel misleads many are the number of reported deaths of older adults. People in long-term care are generally not 75 year-olds who head off to the marina after they're done mowing the lawn, for a round in the pub with the guys/gals. They are, by definition, at least _somewhat_ frail enough to require long-term care. Moreover, the conditions they live in play up to everything a virus could wish for: cramped quarters, no open windows, rotating staff, visitors, and nearby residents hoarking their brains out. Plenty of people younger than 65 also get pneumonia, but don't die of it as many seniors do. They may be laid out with it for a few weeks, but they recover, because their health is generally pretty robust, except for the bout of pneumonia. This is not really any different with respect to age-and-susceptibility, even though infectiousness, time course, and severity of symptoms is different.

The upshot is that the age demographics of who dies from it, are not the same as who contracts it, passes it along to others, and is removed from the labour force because of it. That's not to say that the information Campbell provides in his video updates is in any sense wrong, OR that any preventable source of mortality in our elderly isn't terrible. But if one doesn't think more broadly, you can end up drawing the wrong inferences: that only dying from it matters, and it's almost only "old" people who die from it. Older adults die from a lot of things where the same treatments that successfully lead to recovery in younger adults are not as successful in those older.

And, not to beat it to death with a stick, but 65 is NOT any sort of recognized physical pivot point, with respect to health. It is the nationally affordable pensionable age that Von Bismarck arrived at in the late 1890s (initially 70 as of 1889, but eventually lowered to 65 when it was deemed to be an affordable election promise), and was adopted by most nations offering national pensions to citizens. It was never based on physical health or ability to be in the labour-force. Indeed, for the first 40-50 years of public pensions' existence, it was treated as a supplement, under the assumption that one would still be in the labour-force well after age 65. Some folks' health decline well before that age, and some not for many years after.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

It still kills more healthy over sixty-fives, than aged 20 to 40 per captia


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

boyscout said:


> Careful. That kind of level-headed criticism of the terrible failures of our governments - especially the federal government - in preparing for and handling this pandemic will get you accused by some of "politicizing" the virus.


The politicizing of the virus was done by the gov't when the reason they wouldn't shut down flights and check people at the airport was because it was stigmatizing certain passengers.....i.e. Chinese. It was also said to be racist by the usual suspects elected to government. They put their ideologies ahead of public safety.


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

Robert1950 said:


> It still kills more healthy over sixty-fives, than aged 20 to 40 per captia


I work in the ER. I think the issue is there are a WHOLE LOT of "Healthy" 50-65 year olds that are only healthy because they never see a physician. I literally see this day in and day out. 
Me: Any medical problems?
Patient: Nope
Me: Do you smoke?
Patient: Nope
Me: DID you smoke?
Patient: Yep, 2 packs a day. I quit yesterday
Me: Ok, lets get some vitals
BP 180/90, HR 102 and O2 94% lol. Then do an A1C for diabetes and it's also out of whack.

So this healthy dude has undiagnosed hypertension, COPD and diabetes. And most likely obese as well.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

RJP110 said:


> I work in the ER. I think the issue is there are a WHOLE LOT of "Healthy" 50-65 year olds that are only healthy because they never see a physician. I literally see this day in and day out.
> Me: Any medical problems?
> Patient: Nope
> Me: Do you smoke?
> ...


There's a whole area of research on subjective age ("How old do you feel?") and subjective health ("How would you rate your health?").. Surprisingly, subjective health ratings tend to remain pretty flat across adulthood, even though the number of symptoms reported go up and up with age. "My back hurts, I kinda run out of breath if I have to walk uphill, but other than that I'm in pretty good shape." Some of that is because people (more often stubborn men) decline to seek medical attention of any kind and simply get used to their symptoms or excuse them. Some is because even adults have stereotypes about aging, and compare themselves against the imagined worst case scenario ("I may have an aching back, and a nagging cough, but I'm not as bad off as THAT poor bastard. So all in all I'm okay."). Of course, when people rate their own health as poor, they also tend to say they feel older, and conversely describe themselves as younger than their actual age when their health is great. And of course, as has been known for a while, married men tend to live longer than unmarried men; largely because spouses are more likely to say "Maybe you oughta speak to the doctor about that <insert symptom here>" than drinking buddies will.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

RJP110 said:


> I work in the ER. I think the issue is there are a WHOLE LOT of "Healthy" 50-65 year olds that are only healthy because they never see a physician. I literally see this day in and day out.
> Me: Any medical problems?
> Patient: Nope
> Me: Do you smoke?
> ...


Sounds like an underlying, overlying, and a couple more conditions waiting in the parking lot.


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

mhammer said:


> There's a whole area of research on subjective age ("How old do you feel?") and subjective health ("How would you rate your health?").. Surprisingly, subjective health ratings tend to remain pretty flat across adulthood, even though the number of symptoms reported go up and up with age. "My back hurts, I kinda run out of breath if I have to walk uphill, but other than that I'm in pretty good shape." Some of that is because people (more often stubborn men) decline to seek medical attention of any kind and simply get used to their symptoms or excuse them. Some is because even adults have stereotypes about aging, and compare themselves against the imagined worst case scenario ("I may have an aching back, and a nagging cough, but I'm not as bad off as THAT poor bastard. So all in all I'm okay."). Of course, when people rate their own health as poor, they also tend to say they feel older, and conversely describe themselves as younger than their actual age when their health is great. And of course, as has been known for a while, married men tend to live longer than unmarried men; largely because spouses are more likely to say "Maybe you oughta speak to the doctor about that <insert symptom here>" than drinking buddies will.


Yes, good point. We just chronically deal with things and then it becomes normal. Same as how you don't perceive you've gained or lost weight until you see a previous photograph to do an A/B.


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

HighNoon said:


> Sounds like an underlying, overlying, and a couple more conditions waiting in the parking lot.


Totally. Or you ask if they have any medical issues and they say no. Then ask about medications and they are on 20 but don't know what they are for...only the colour of pill. Hahahaha. Sometimes I sure love my job!


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I'm in great shape.....






if I was much older. Turns out my problem is I'm just too young.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

RJP110 said:


> Totally. Or you ask if they have any medical issues and they say no. Then ask about medications and they are on 20 but don't know what they are for...only the colour of pill. Hahahaha. Sometimes I sure love my job!


Speaking of medications.....what's the basic protocol now being used in your hospital for patients presenting Covid symptoms.....pre ICU? Thanks...


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

HighNoon said:


> Speaking of medications.....what's the basic protocol now being used in your hospital for patients presenting Covid symptoms.....pre ICU? Thanks...


Everyone is anticoagulated and decadron 10mg OD. Some are on a trial as well of a plasma infusion that has COVID antibodies. Other than that, sometimes antibiotics if there are concurrent bacterial pneumonias. Once they hit ICU we have found that patients do MUCH better on Bipap vs intubation.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

What's decadron?


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

RJP110 said:


> Everyone is anticoagulated and decadron 10mg OD. Some are on a trial as well of a plasma infusion that has COVID antibodies. Other than that, sometimes antibiotics if there are concurrent bacterial pneumonias. Once they hit ICU we have found that patients do MUCH better on Bipap vs intubation.


I was lazy....I looked it up....I remember dexamethasone. So blood thinners and anti inflammatory right away....makes sense given all those little blood clots showing up. Oxygen also?


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

HighNoon said:


> I was lazy....I looked it up....I remember dexamethasone. So blood thinners and anti inflammatory right away....makes sense given all those little blood clots showing up. Oxygen also?


Beat me to it lol. Yeah, Dexamethasone makes a big difference. The damage isn't as much from the virus but more our immune response and inflammation to fight the virus. So Dex early on is supposed to help. Not all are on oxygen, but the majority.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

RJP110 said:


> Beat me to it lol. Yeah, Dexamethasone makes a big difference. The damage isn't as much from the virus but more our immune response and inflammation to fight the virus. So Dex early on is supposed to help. Not all are on oxygen, but the majority.


I forget the pathologist's name.....Austrian guy back in late April. He did over 60 autopsies and found little tiny clots (I think that's alveolar damage) in the lungs, from the cytokine response, but was surprised to find coagulation events in the liver, kidneys, heart and even the brain. That was a big, whoa Nelly moment for me.


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

HighNoon said:


> I forget the pathologist's name.....Austrian guy back in late April. He did over 60 autopsies and found little tiny clots (I think that's alveolar damage) in the lungs, from the cytokine response, but was surprised to find coagulation events in the liver, kidneys, heart and even the brain. That was a big, whoa Nelly moment for me.


Yeah, this happens in bad cases of Influenza as well but I think its something like 5 times more likely in Covid patients. I'm pretty tired of everything "Covid", but I do like the science!


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

RJP110 said:


> Yeah, this happens in bad cases of Influenza as well but I think its something like 5 times more likely in Covid patients. I'm pretty tired of everything "Covid", but I do like the science!


Yes, the science. The 5 X's could very well be the gain of function factor....increased pathogenicity and infectivity.


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## Eric Reesor (Jan 26, 2020)

RJP110 said:


> Everyone is anticoagulated and decadron 10mg OD. Some are on a trial as well of a plasma infusion that has COVID antibodies. Other than that, sometimes antibiotics if there are concurrent bacterial pneumonias. Once they hit ICU we have found that patients do MUCH better on Bipap vs intubation.


Not even a prophylaxis 3 lpm of O2 upon arrival? I would think that it might help especially en route or in waiting: that is if the patient is not hyperventilating already in fear. I would also imagine that a bipap makes it easier to help clear fluids by simple head tilt in the ICU. I have read that the irritation caused intubation and suction to evacuate fluids is also why it is only a last resort tool and not really effective treatment for covid sar-2. No doubt the Glasgow score must be down considerably before an ERP would even consider the procedure. Hard enough just doing a BVM assist on a nervous semi conscious patient.

In years past I was a medic in remote locations. Now I cook off and on in a seniors centre so if Covid hits the homes in Victoria I might need to put on the gloves again and fight the good fight, if things start getting out of hand the way they did in Ontario and elsewhere. If I catch covid I doubt that I will survive it unless I have some extra immunity potential in me already. Back in mid Feb 2015 I am almost certain that my spouse brought home sars from the hospital. Both of us had symptoms very close to that of covid and it took me over a month to recover from that bought of a cold, it was the worst "chest cold" I have ever had in my life time. 

The main thing about covid is the more people that do the hard work to help others through this, the faster the war will pass! We have been lucky here on Vancouver Island so far touch wood. Back to playing Villa Lobos.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

A Canadian Update...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Interesting self-evident post-hoc point made this morning in an interview of the Moderna CEO by Fareed Zakaria. In explaining just how it was possible to develop their vaccine so quickly, he noted two important factors. One was certainly the advances in molecular biology that had been prompted by, and made since, ebola. But the other was the widespread and large number of test volunteers that vaccine developers usually don't have access to.

Keep in mind that such volunteers don't get a poke in the shoulder and then get _deliberately_ and knowingly exposed to the disease 2 weeks later. Rather, large numbers of volunteers either get the test vaccine or placebo, and you follow them for some period, looking to see what percentage _*spontaneously*_ contract the disease, with or without the vaccine, as well as show any negative side-effects. Normally, this can take a long time when developing a vaccine for some disease that is highly regional, because you need a large number of such volunteers to have sufficient statistical power to confidently draw any inferences. In the case of a worldwide pandemic - something we generally don't face - there was no shortage whatsoever of such volunteers, and no shortage of real risk that someone could contract it in their everyday life, making it a piece of cake to quickly acquire the large corpus of data needed to draw conclusions.

Of course, the fact that a large number of volunteers could be obtained so quickly comes with the caveat that rapid data acquisition means you don't have the chance to see any slow-emerging negative side-effects. But at least one has quick assurances that nothing immediate will happen that shouldn't happen.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Update on the SARS-C0V-2 mutation


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Details (scientific) of the N501Y mutation


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

BBC article on SARS-CoV-2 variants









Coronavirus variants and mutations: The science explained


Scientists are racing to find out more about variants of the coronavirus that are spreading fast.



www.bbc.com


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)




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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

cheezyridr said:


>


They do have a more cohesive social structure, for a variety of reasons, and that starts with strict control of immigration. You don't get to just walk in and decide to get your papers. Japan has the world's oldest population by average. They also have the world's highest debt to GDP ratio (the difference being they own most of their debt). If you're over 40 you pay a tax to help with elderly care. And with that care comes responsibility. Even before this virus, you wash your hands before and after every visit with a resident. They (the workers in the the facilities) don't wear face masks, because it inhibits communication. In general the Japanese have a much lower level of obesity and diabetes, strong contributing factors to long term illness and mortality. The Japanese have done limited testing, which for them, saves time and resources. And they limited overall social exposure to the virus, by simply asking their people to do so. They haven't done lockdowns; they identify clusters and isolate that area. And they do have pride in their country, their language and their culture.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

HighNoon said:


> They do have a more cohesive social structure, for a variety of reasons, and that starts with strict control of immigration.


i disagree. immigration control is not where it starts. it's a necessary (one of several) means of maintaining that cohesiveness. ask any person of western descent born in japan (black/white/arab etc.) if they are considered to be japanese by others. their children won't be considered to be japanese either. my former step kids, who were born in japan, but are half canadian, were not considered japanese by their cousins, aunts and uncles. the cohesion you mention in your post comes from a much deeper place than just immigration policy.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

cheezyridr said:


> i disagree. immigration control is not where it starts. it's a necessary (one of several) means of maintaining that cohesiveness. ask any person of western descent born in japan (black/white/arab etc.) if they are considered to be japanese by others. their children won't be considered to be japanese either. my former step kids, who were born in japan, but are half canadian, were not considered japanese by their cousins, aunts and uncles. the cohesion you mention in your post comes from a much deeper place than just immigration policy.


Yes they are not considered Japanese as are my nephew's children in Tokyo today. Immigration or the immigration of ideas goes back to their first encounters with the American navy and are brought forward to the present day. In many ways they were a closed society for centuries, until post '45 and the new world of democracy and ideas.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

HighNoon said:


> Yes they are not considered Japanese as are my nephew's children in Tokyo today. Immigration or the immigration of ideas goes back to their first encounters with the American navy and are brought forward to the present day. In many ways they were a closed society for centuries, until post '45 and the new world of democracy and ideas.


japan was a closed country (for the most part) long before perry came and forced them into a trade agreement. outsiders were confined to specific areas partly because most daimyo considered christianity to be subversive. (there were notable exceptions, like nobunaga) but western influence and remaining a closed country was a major issue in the politics surrounding the boshin war. japan as a homogenous culture is something deeply ingrained for hundreds and hundreds of years. that's why i say immigration is a device used to maintain, rather than a reason for. i _suspect_ part of it might come from being an island nation, and some of it from shintoism


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

GOLDBERG: Listen to science -- but listen carefully


Behold science, the sword and the shield of progressivism.




torontosun.com




_Some epidemiologists made things worse by stepping out of their lanes.

“We should always evaluate the risks and benefits of efforts to control the virus,” Jennifer Nuzzo, an epidemiologist at Johns Hopkins, declared on Twitter. “In this moment the public health risks of not protesting to demand an end to systemic racism greatly exceed the harms of the virus.”

I’m open to the idea that if the protests this summer could have ended racism, the benefits would outweigh the risks. But where is the evidence that happened? Is racism over now? Heck, where was the evidence that such an outcome was in the realm of the possible in the first place?

I trust epidemiologists to explain how epidemiology works. But there is no transitive property to their expertise. The opinion that the protests would even come close to eradicating systemic racism and police brutality is just that — an opinion, and a flimsy one at that. Moreover, the opinion of medical scientists on such matters has no more authority than that of plumbers or electricians — and less than that of many social scientists or, dare I say it, politicians._


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Preliminary information on Vitamin D mitigating SARS-C0V-2 mortality


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Toxicity intake levels for Vitamin D is 50,000 IU for several months (Mayo Clinic) Minimum daily intake is 600 IU.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

Robert1950 said:


> Toxicity intake levels for Vitamin D is 50,000 IU for several months (Mayo Clinic) Minimum daily intake is 600 IU.


I take 4,000 a day. Fauci when asked said he takes 6,000. It's a good, cheap and easy way to start any kind of preventative protocol.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Just a couple of things.


China OKs 1st homegrown vaccine as COVID-19 surges globally


and




__





A Healthcare Employee Deliberately Spoils 500 Coronavirus Vaccine Doses






www.msn.com


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"Deliberately"

I wonder what the fallout will be from that?


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

allthumbs56 said:


> "Deliberately"
> 
> I wonder what the fallout will be from that?


Definitely fired, and criminal charges and I'd assume death threats on all social media platforms.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

RJP110 said:


> Definitely fired, and criminal charges and I'd assume death threats on all social media platforms.


"Endangerment"? "Manslaughter" should any of the 500 destined to receive that vaccine died? Or something as simple as "Mischief"? Who knows. I can't even fathom the motive - could be an "anti-vaxxer", could be a "terrorist" could be just an idiot. Regardless, that stuff is like gold.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Death rate among COVID-19 patients nearly three times higher than influenza, study suggests


A French study comparing patients admitted to hospital with COVID-19 to those admitted with seasonal influenza shows a greater proportion of COVID-19 patients experience severe illness requiring intensive care, with a death rate nearly three times higher.




www.ctvnews.ca














Comparative evaluation of clinical manifestations and risk of death in patients admitted to hospital with covid-19 and seasonal influenza: cohort study


Abstract Objective To comparatively examine differences in risk of clinical manifestations and death among people admitted to hospital with coronavirus disease 2019 (covid-19) and seasonal influenza. Design Cohort study. Setting US Department of Veterans Affairs. Participants Patients...




www.bmj.com








https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30527-0/fulltext


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

From CBC's Quirks and Quarks - what's driving the virus to evolve, and what we can do about it



https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/jan-9-covid-19-and-fighting-viral-evolution-ice-age-wolf-pup-and-more-1.5865449/new-covid-variants-what-s-driving-the-virus-to-evolve-and-what-we-can-do-about-it-1.5865460


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