# How secure is EMT?



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm selling a mixer on Kijiji and the buyer wants me to ship it to Calgary.

He wants to pay by paypal but I think EMT is more secure.

Am I right?

Once the cash is in my account if received by EMT am I safe?

Below is the e-mail thread. The last one makes me nervous.

Never mind about the pick up, shipping agent will come over to you for the pick up as soon as payment is confirmed in your account.
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
Original Message
From: Mike LaPointe
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2015 10:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Mackie board
Calgary?
I wasn't planning on shipping and certainly didn't factor that into my price.
If you can do Paypal, you can also do EMT, which is much more secure from my side and does not have fees associated with it.
If you pay via EMT I will ship but I will need to get costs for that and add it to the selling price.
I would normally use Greyhound for such a shipment. I can get a price for you if you're interested in that.
My e-mail for EMT is the same as the one you're currently communicating with me on.
Mike LaPointe
Account Manager
Nichirin North America Sales
Desk – (519)752-2925
Cell – (519)754-8383
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 4:09 PM
To: Mike LaPointe
Subject: Re: Mackie board
I'm calgary and paypal is very good and easy to do online transaction.
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
Original Message
From: Mike LaPointe
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2015 10:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Mackie board
I have paypal, but I would prefer to do a cash deal.
I'm not sure I understand what the obstacle is. If you have to pick up the board anyway, it should be simple to withdraw the cash and have it with you.
Are you close to Brantford?
I'm sure we can work out a convenient time for you to come by and see the board.
Mike LaPointe
Account Manager
Nichirin North America Sales
Desk – (519)752-2925
Cell – (519)754-8383
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 4:05 PM
To: Mike LaPointe
Subject: Re: Mackie board
I'm sorry, I can only pay via paypal as its directly linked with my bank account. If you don't have an account you can always sign up at www.paypal.com. That's what have been using for years without any hitches.
Please let me know what you think.
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
Original Message
From: Mike LaPointe
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2015 10:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Mackie board
How about we do cash?
You can count on that transaction.
I assume you would need to come and pick up the board. No need to involve paypal from my perspective.
Mike LaPointe
Account Manager
Nichirin North America Sales
Desk – (519)752-2925
Cell – (519)754-8383
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 4:01 PM
To: Mike LaPointe
Subject: Re: Mackie board
i think the price of $1,000 is fair enough, so just send me your paypal email so that i can make the payment. hope i can count on your integrity during the course of this transaction
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
Original Message
From: Mike LaPointe
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2015 9:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Mackie board
The condition is excellent. The board was only used by me and has been kept in a hard case at all times. The case is built so that you can leave the board in it and remove the lid for shows.
For a quick sale I will accept $1000. But not a dime less.
Mike LaPointe
Account Manager
Nichirin North America Sales
Desk – (519)752-2925
Cell – (519)754-8383
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2015 3:55 PM
To: Mike LaPointe
Subject: Re: Mackie board
What's the condition and your final price
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.
Original Message
From: Mike LaPointe
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2015 9:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Mackie board
Yes, the Mackie is still available.
If you would like to see it please let me know and we can work out a time and day.
Thank you,
Mike
Sent from my iPhone


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

This kinda reads like a scam. 

iEMT is secure as far as I know, once it's in your account it's done.


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## NB_Terry (Feb 2, 2006)

Don't use paypal. 

Also I think you should call the guy, but it looks like a scam.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Never mind about the pick up, shipping agent will come over to you for the pick up as soon as payment is confirmed in your account.


_Never mind_


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

Reads like a "Nigerian" scam to me. Especially the line, "hope i can count on your integrity during the course of this transaction."

I've had a few of these offers before.

"Your price is fair"

"I will send my agent to pick up the item"

"I will send money via PayPal"


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## GWN! (Nov 2, 2014)

Pick up by an agent. Typical scam. Could be legitimate but I would be concerned about a fraudulent paypal account. I personally would not go ahead. There are other comments in his e-mails that are also typical wording used by scammers.


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

Scam.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Tough times for legitimate 'shipping agents' these days. Poor dudes.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Run away.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Run quickly. Hope you didn't give out too much information already,


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)




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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Shipping agent = SCAM


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)




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## keto (May 23, 2006)

And, by the way, I have never heard of an EMT scam or one bouncing or otherwise being reversed. So far at least, I consider it 100% secure. Certainly not the case with PayPal, as we all know.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I do quite a bit of selling here and the only way I take payment is cash in person or EMT. I don't have anything to do with paypal.


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## Spike (May 31, 2008)

A friend of mine had similar emails when he was selling an amp. He sniffed trouble and did some Googling. He heard tales of payments being reversed as soon as the 'shipping agents' drove away.

Being the kind of guy he is, he sent off a flaming nastygram to the potential buyer. Never heard a peep back.


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

PayPal can be reversed by opening a dispute. Usually disputes go in the way of the purchaser and you are out of luck
EMT is way more secure and cannot be reversed once the money is in your account. 

Now to your post - as others have said *RUN AWAY*. This is a scam pure and simple.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Don't do it.
Hold out for someone local.
If the don't want EMT then just say bye.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2015)

Tell him to paypal the shipping agent. And have them give you the cash upon pickup.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Paypal always favours the buyers, as we know. I haven't been burned by EMT, but rarely do I have a transaction with someone I've never met. The only time in recent memory (and I checked him out via social media just to be safe) was the Texan who bought my Peters.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

I was in Calgary all day. Trust me, that guy ain't there.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Exactly what I was thinking.

I wouldn't ship an item to an unknown buyer with any potential that the money they paid could later (after the goods are shipped) be clawed back.

It felt like a scam. As soon as I insisted on EMT the communications stopped.

Now I have a very similar looking text message from a "different" buyer for my snake which I also listed on kijiji.

Dickheads.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Kerry Brown said:


> Run quickly. Hope you didn't give out too much information already,


He has the information contained in the ad (e-mail, phone) but not my address.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Milkman said:


> Exactly what I was thinking.
> 
> I wouldn't ship an item to an unknown buyer with any potential that the money they paid could later (after the goods are shipped) be clawed back.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately that's the world we live in. That's why its nice to have the system we have going here. Just need to grow the base and items will move even quicker.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I'd much prefer selling the board and snake here, but I've posted and no bites.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Milkman said:


> I'd much prefer selling the board and snake here, but I've posted and no bites.


I would, but for a one man band, 32 channels can be a bit too big.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

32 channels for a single act is a bit much, but it's surprising how quickly a four or five piece band can consume channels when you start micing everything and without the restrictions limited channels has.

I frequently ran out of channels with 22/24 channel boards and this one isn't really that big. In fact it's smaller than the old Soundcraft 24 channel boards we were using in the 80s

It's awfully nice not to have to say "I'd mic this or DI that if I had enough channels".


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Update.

I just got another very similar text. Same scam. Here's his e-mail:

Thanks for the prompt response. I'm Okay with the Mackie Board as I have already go through it on the advert but just trying to make little inquiry from you, I'm ready to buy it now as a christmas gift for my Daughter, I'm a Navy Officer, and due to the nature of my Job.....phone calls making and visiting of website are restricted but I squeezed out time to check this advert and send you a message regarding it. I really want it to be a surprise for my Daughter I won't let her know anything about it until it gets delivered to her, I am sure she will be more than happy with it. I insisted on PayPal because I don't have access to my bank account online as I don't have internet banking, but I can pay from my PayPal account, as I have my bank account attached to it, Get back to me with your PayPal email and the last price you are selling it? so I can proceed with the payment quickly, and sorry if you don't have an Account, you sign-up for a PayPal personal account www.paypal.com it is very fast and easy to set up. And there is a shipping company pick up agent that will come for the pick up after the payment has been sorted out.
Thanks


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

WCGill said:


> I was in Calgary all day. Trust me, that guy ain't there.


Good that you checked!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

What is broken in a person that would make them deliberately and maliciously try to rip someone off?

I accept that these people are out there. I just don't get it. Is it upbringing? Environment?

WTF?


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2015)

Since he states how easy it is to set up a paypal account,
tell him that it's easier for him to set up EMT with his bank.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I won't wate my energy.

I simply told him (and his sleezy buddy) that it was EMT or face to face cash. After that......crickets.

Douchebags.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Greed.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

It takes more than greed. I know plenty of greedy but honest people.

No, this is worse.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Been said already, so it need not be said again. Scam.

On another note, PayPal vs EMT.

*PayPal Gift* - Absolutely no protection for the "buyer". That is why you're not supposed to use the gift option. It is meant for sending gifts. The seller is either trying to scam you, or they just want to avoid the PayPal transaction fee. There's no way for the buyer to know the intentions of the seller, so just avoid it altogether.

*EMT* - Great if you are the seller because the buyer pays the transaction fee. However, there is NO buyer protection on EMT. It is the equivalent of sending an envelope with cash. Once that money is sent, you're never getting it back. Only use EMT with highly trusted sellers.

*Regular PayPal* - Both the buyer and seller have protection but many claim the buyer is favoured. However, that is often because the seller isn't taking the steps to protect themselves. Here are some ways to boost your seller protection:
Only sell to verified buyers.

Only use PayPal if you plan to ship the item. NEVER accept PayPal as payment for an item delivered in person. You won't have anything to prove the item was delivered, and you have no shipping insurance as a backup.
Always ship with tracking, insurance, and delivery confirmation (preferably via signature). Yes, it costs more, but those are the things that protect you as a seller. Keep the PayPal sale updated every step of the way as well. Tracking is proof that you sent the package and shipping insurance covers you in case the buyer never receives the item (or receives it damaged). They can't claim non-delivery if you have proof via their signature from the shipper. If they try to scam you and somehow succeed, you might lose your PayPal money but your shipping insurance should still cover you. If the shipping company contacts the scamming buyer, they will most likely claim they never got the product. Most scammers aren't interested in intentionally hurting the seller, they just want free stuff. Of course, the preceding will not guarantee anything, but it is much more difficult for a scammer to succeed if you follow those steps.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i think part of it IS environment. certainly the place i came up is alot more...mercenary than i find people to be in other places. there are things that seem routine to me that people here for example, seem to find appalling. not that i had anymore stomach for it there/then, but it was no surprise when you saw it happen. i also think some of it comes from desperation. people with hope don't seem to exhibit the same behavior.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

It bothers me that I have to treat a stranger like a thief.

It bothers me even more when others treat me like a thief because they've been ripped off before.

Humans


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

The internet has created so many new ways to scam people that I think some of it is opportunity, plain and simple. If someone invents a new mousetrap, the mice are working on a workaround or scam.

That's why I limit what I do on line and with social media. Especially the last one. For better or worse, I'm not the trusting type by nature, I guess.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

You're right, but the nature that allows people to completely ignore their conscience (presuming everyone has one) was around long before the internet.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I probably shouldn't have done this, but I sent a final e-mail to the first scammer.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alternatively, you can pay your "shipping agent" the $1000. by paypal and have him bring the cash when he picks the board up.
If that isn't acceptable, I would try your scam on someone less gullible. I'm sure there's an old lady you can rip off by scaring her into sending money somewhere.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Nothing says surprise to your child like opening up a used 32 channel mixer on Christmas morning. He'd probably want you to gift-wrap it too 

And I thought the correct title was "Naval Officer"..................


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## Spike (May 31, 2008)

When I posted yesterday I wished I'd known what my friend had Googled when he was dealing with this creep. I texted and asked him but (like usual) he answered every question except the one I asked. 

Anyway, I just searched 'musical instruments scams pickup by courier' and got a lot of hits. Most are about situations similar to Milkman's.

I hate thieves.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I wonder how many people are falling for stuff like this? It seems obvious but clearly yielding for the scammers, right? They wouldn't be doing it still if it wasn't getting results.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I know someone who sold a piano and got a very similar email--it seems they don' keep saying, "The item" over & over any more.

And they both give the same pitch for paypal.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Well, no response to me e-mails.

I guess they've moved on to easier targets.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Aww, Mike, scammers don't have feelings. And, if they see no potential in 'working' you, they just move along to the next mark.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Milkman said:


> You're right, but the nature that allows people to completely ignore their conscience (presuming everyone has one) was around long before the internet.


Absolutely true, if is a personal defect if you will. But the interwebz gives them access to fish from a massively huge pool and with little to no physical outlay on their part (they don't have to come to my door and look me in the face). In fact, much of it seems to be automated, until they hook one. 

I don't recall this kinda thing happening with snail-mail, except maybe the Irish Derby tickets. Were they even real?


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Still one of my all-time favourites ...................


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