# How do you write song lyrics?



## JethroTech (Dec 8, 2015)

I'm stumped. Chord progressions, melodies and riffs fall out of my ass (not all of them good or very original) but I couldn't write song lyrics to save my life. I'm usually good for a verse or maybe part of a chorus but that's it. I have notebooks scattered all over the place full of bits and pieces but have never finished a song. 

My question: when you're writing lyrics do you have a complete idea as to what the song is about before you put pen to paper as in, "This is going to be a song about my first car, a 1972 Chef Impala, and the freedom that came with owning a car..." or is it more of a vague or general concept like, "This is a song about being young..." I've tried both approaches but once I get going I start beating myself up because a rhyme is just WAY too obvious or cliche, or the lyrics are too on-the-nose and don't leave enough room for listener interpretation and then I scrap the whole thing. 

Any tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated. I know that this question itself is a bit vague and everyone has different methods, but I'm baffled so any tip or pointer is appreciated. Thanks.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Song lyrics are poetry. Apply the "rules" for poetry.

Try for three levels of meaning. Objective: the singer has a new car. Subjective: the new car is "rite of passage" in our culture from the end of childhood into adulthood. Subliminal/transcendent (most important IMO): the car represents freedom to pursue your own path; or the car represents an illusion of freedom that will be overshadowed by job, family, society; or the car represents the vanity of materialism compared to the family he is leaving. You mentioned all three levels in your OP, so unconciously you already know all this.

OK, so you have your idea for what the song is about. And you have your music to go with that idea. How to write the lyrics?

Words are secondary. Primarily concentrate on all the staples of poetry.

Imagery: try to think in pictures that you can present to the listener. Mental images really work.

Narrative: is there (even a hint at) a story here. Stories really work.

K.I.S.S. never use a $20 word when a $2 word will do. And writing two songs with one idea is better than one song with two ideas. This ain't a novel.

Metaphor, analogy. The first car is like the spear a boy gets to bring home his first kill.

Irony. The driver sees birds flying wherever they wish, not stuck on a road.

*New Car*

Oh, the pump jacks bob like insects
And the flare stacks wave like flags
There's a thousand geese above me
And the grain is in the bag.

_Driving along, radio on, in my new car
Singing a song, taking too long, in my new car _

Oh the spruce trees flashing by me
And the names on the rocks are painted high
There's a raven and some road kill
And the water reflects the sky

_Driving along, radio on in my new car
Singing a song, taking too long, in my new car 
Don't know what I hope to find 
Maybe I am wasting my time _

And when I get to the harbour
I can watch the ships go by
And the seagulls will all greet me
As I end my lonesome drive

_Driving along radio on in my new car 
Singing a song, taking too long in my new car
Don't know what I hope to find
Maybe I am just wasting time 
Driving along radio on in my new car._

A narrative: driving off the prairie thru the forest to the coast (Lake Superior, but the listener does not need to really get any of the geography altho it helps)

A description: images that he sees in each stage of the trip

Metaphor: birds in each verse mock his mode of travel. Again it is not necessary for the listener to get that, but its there for the "deep thinker".

Irony: play this in a minor key to express the dude's existential angst that is not satisfied by buying a car.

Etc. Etc. Etc. Embrace the bullshit of it all. That's how I write lyrics. I had a friend with a great voice who sang for me. He often read way more into my songs than I ever meant. "Yeah, that's right," I would tell him. "That's what I meant."

Do the above lyrics really achieve what I hoped for? Who cares? Just be sure to insert a groovy guitar solo!


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## CathodeRay (Jan 12, 2018)

Everyone's creative mind works differently. You're pursuing what you think of as the 'correct sequence' in your writing, but it's clearly not working for -you-.

So ditch it and find a way that is in tune with yours.

Examples follow 

Bono, McCartney begin by drafting whole verses with nonsense lyrics that they like the words' sounds, not their meaning. They then have a full skeleton of the vocals to hang real lyrics on as ideas start to gel. 

Another: write as quickly as you can, nonsense and rhyme be damned. Complete the lyrics, fill the page - knowing full well this v1 will be in the trash can. Rewrite them as inspiration hits you. Rewrite v2 as further inspiration hits you - be it 5 min or 5 weeks after v1. 

Write in a NON CRITICAL state of mind. Critiquing yourself while writing kills the creative process dead. Give your early creative process breathing room and 100% support. Fix it later with your analytical mind. 

Hope that's something to chew on.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I just set up a vocal mic, hit record and start improvising. Do that a few times and you will get a an idea of the melody, how many syllables per line, etc. You will probably also get some decent lines in the process and then just start filling in the blanks.

Also when you are out and about and you hear someone say a turn of phrase or something that sticks in your mind for a bit as a cool way to word something, write those down as you go. An example of this is Gord Downie was talking to a farmer for some reason or another and the farmer said, "You know the east wind is the laziest wind right?" Gord said, "why is that?", Farmer "It doesn't go around you, it moves right through you". That made it into a song.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

I usually work out melody first with sounds and and random words/improvisation and then as ideas come to me the writing seems to flow and a subject/objective narrows in, sometimes really easily or sometimes a labour.

Occasionally I’ll have a melody in mind and go to my big book of lyrics as I write a tonne of poetry or random thoughts and find something to fit but that seems more difficult most often.

When I read the SNFU book I was surprised to find out that a lot of their songs were written with the Belke brothers making the music, finding the lyrics in Chi’s many notebooks and then presenting the songs to Chi Pig to sing after completion.

I use to struggle to finish whole songs for many years and it bothered me until worked with other people and learned that mostly everyone has lots of unfinished material and if you keep at it and consistent you start finding what works for you and if a song is good enough it will be easy to go back to and finish, or a songwriting partner will have the magic to finish it.

Working w someone is sometimes an amazing experience as well.


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## JethroTech (Dec 8, 2015)

KapnKrunch said:


> Song lyrics are poetry. Apply the "rules" for poetry.
> 
> Try for three levels of meaning. Objective: the singer has a new car. Subjective: the new car is "rite of passage" in our culture from the end of childhood into adulthood. Subliminal/transcendent (most important IMO): the car represents freedom to pursue your own path; or the car represents an illusion of freedom that will be overshadowed by job, family, society; or the car represents the vanity of materialism compared to the family he is leaving. You mentioned all three levels in your OP, so unconciously you already know all this.
> 
> ...


Wow. This is extremely helpful. And if you just pulled those lyrics out of the air while you were replying to this message, I am impressed. I really appreciate this. Thank you.


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## mnfrancis (May 24, 2010)

Agreed - This is a great thread and something I have always struggled with. Like JethroTech my own lyrics always look silly or stupid on a page. However if you take your favourite songs and write out the lyrics with no music etc, I find they often look equally stupid. 

Guess I just need to "run with it" and stop caring so much


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

JethroTech said:


> Wow. This is extremely helpful. And if you just pulled those lyrics out of the air while you were replying to this message, I am impressed. I really appreciate this. Thank you.


I too would be impressed if I pulled those lyrics out of my ass this morning just to answer you. It probably took a year or two for all the ideas and pieces to fall in place. The important thing is to start, and then let it simmer in your head. I often wake up from sleep with a real "brainwave" -- and it's always simple. Never recorded that one...

But here's an oldie that uses *a car ride* as a metaphor for the stress of modern living. Some production glitches but the imagery, narrative and three levels of meaning are there more or less. I think. Here again, the main thing is I got'er done.


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https://soundcloud.com/user-453487393-638909333%2Fcant-slow-down

CAN'T SLOW DOWN

Security guard thinks he's wise
He stares real hard at those foreign guys
She claps her hands and says to me
"They'd never understand if he said 'Freeze!'"
They smile with love but I think they know
If push comes to shove they'll be the first to go
He pats his gun and waves us by
But what scares me is the way we drive

CHORUS: We've been around the world
And we've been around the town
Been a busy boy and girl
And now we can't slow down

"Oh,oh!" she says and points to her brain
I'm left to guess while she changes lanes
Kids on the corner,oh, that's what she means
Inside our heads play out domestic scenes
Without a prayer, without a hope
Without a chance on low-priced dope
No thought, no cause, employment neglected
They fought, they paused, disaster expected
We leave them for dead as we watch in our mirrors
The bumper ahead getting nearer and nearer.

We've been around the world
We've been around the town
Been a busy boy and girl
And now we can't slow down

Pour on the gas to get one car ahead
We're weaving thru traffic as on we sped
Squeeze to the right to be first at the light
Mutter a curse when a horn honks behind
"I think I know him. He's with so-and-so."
She's busy with make-up when it's her turn to go
Her hair, her lips, her thoughts far away
"Let's go to the cottage and stay until Monday."
I slump in my seat, it'll take hours to pack
We'll drive all day, then we'll want to come back
I'd like to defend us but it's very well-known
We'll spend the whole weekend poking at our phones.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

I usually wont know what a song is about when I start, but by the time I’ve got a few chords together or try to sing something, some subject will pop out.

Brainstorming technique: Fill a blank page with everything you can think of about your subject, names, places, emotions, colours, phrases, quotes, other songs about the same subject.

You should end up with something that looks a bit like a word cloud [google that].

Group the words together ["Hey, all these words are euphemisms for penis!"]. Find themes in your words and groupings.

Soon you have a lexicon for your song and you can almost read the lines directly off the page.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Keep in mind words can be spit out super short or dragged way out too, or delivered 'differently', for effect.

I do the simple kids thing, write the alphabet down the side of a page, write a line or 2, then start looking for rhymes by going down the alpha. Doesn't give you longer words where the rhyme might be the latter (or even earlier if you run to the next line) part of a longer word, or all the CH ST SH TH TR etc etc sounds, but you start hearing them in your head.

I don't use that as hard and fast, but it does generally lead me to different places.

G, I would bet you could take fragments you already have and put something together. Maybe you're like me, I have no confidence particularly in what I write. I have reams and reams of poetry and songs going back to the 80's, but think occasionally of burning it all, most of it is awful dreck - but someone might find a few gold nuggets.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Guncho said:


> when you are out and about


Tom Waites and the interviewer get into a cab. Waites gets into the front seat and starts talking to the driver like he knows the guy. Winning his trust and confidence with his natural sincerity, Waites gets the guy's story by the time the ride is over and a new song is born.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Great thread. Keep the comments coming. 

OK. Time to stop playing the profound artist and reveal my true secret... 





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Rhyme Finder - Free Online Rhyming Dictionary


Rhyme Finder is the best rhyming dictionary. Find rhyming words for any word to help you create the perfect poem, song, etc



www.rhymefinder.net


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

It can be years between songs for me and usually a few false starts which I keep in the Drafts folder of my email program. I have never finished one of these. The good ones push their way through and pre-occupy me until they're finished. And the best actually make it into my repertoire. Most of my songs have their genesis while I'm out walking for some reason.

Here's the last one I never finished from two years ago:

She's my Gananoque gal, my Gananoque girl
My best friend, Lefty, says she kisses real good
Says she loves to fish, don't mind peeing in the woods
She drives an old rusty flivver, dresses like a guy
But when I see her on the river, my heart's up in the sky
Cause I love her wish she'd marry me, my Gananoque girl

I met her at the curling club but I was kind of shy
Didn't know just what to say and let that chance slip by

I've seen her dressed real pretty, I've seen her dress a deer
She sips champagne but she'd rather drink beer


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## Permanent Waves (Jun 2, 2020)

For me, the process of writing lyrics is completely disassociated from the music, and subject to very random and unpredictable inspiration (like some sort of unexpected creative fart). It will typically be centered around one or two clever lines that pop into my head, sometimes inspired by a personal experience, someone else's experience or even something I see in the news or in a movie. I then come up with the rest of the ideas for lyrics to beef up the concept, and though I don't have any music at this point, I try to keep the number of syllables the same so that the phrasing will fit into whatever melody I come up with later. (Sometimes I sing the lyrics to an existing song to make sure the phrasing will fit). The bigger challenge is the music - I try to go for a feel that goes with the lyrics, but I am usually not too happy with the end results (I would probably work better as part of a songwriting team). I then arrange parts for all instruments and record at home with varying degrees of success since I can't sing or play drums very well.

One of the more recent songs I wrote was about the large-scale expropriation of farmers in Mirabel in the early 70's, all for an airport that ended up never being fully built and eventually closed down. I had extensive discussions on the subject with a friend of mine whose family had been caught in the middle of this, and the devastating effects still felt decades later. I exceptionally wrote it in french, and came up with a clever opening rhyme that set the stage for the rest of the song to flow. I had a lot of historical perspective from her to get inspiration from, and made a list of concepts and events to include in the narrative. The music part was a bit more challenging, but I knew I wanted to go for a plaintive "Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" waltzy triplet feel, so I used an acoustic guitar rhythm track and lots of minor chords. Results didn't turn out too bad, but it probably would have worked better as a poem than a song.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Doug Gifford said:


> Here's the last one I never finished from two years ago:
> 
> She's my Gananoque gal, my Gananoque girl
> My best friend, Lefty, says she kisses real good
> ...


Super clever and witty lyrics! I would be obsessed with finishing this one! 

BTW, I still haven't seen "The Invisible Song-Writer" on the Muse Forum. I guess you already have enough to do, eh Doug?


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## MFW777 (Aug 3, 2017)

I just finished a great book on this subject and highly recommend “How To Write One Song” by Jeff Tweedy (Wilco/ Uncle Tupelo/ Tweedy/ Loose Fur).

It covers areas most Songwriters eventually struggle with like motivation, writers block, inspiration etc. Jeff shares incredible advice on how he structures his process, creating “word ladders”, “stealing words”, playing with rhymes, giving yourself permission, “don’t be yourself“ and a host of other useful concepts. 

A short easy read full of useful ideas. Even if you don’t like Jeff/ Wilco etc. this is both entertaining and full of ways to get started or refine your process.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

KapnKrunch said:


> Super clever and witty lyrics! I would be obsessed with finishing this one!
> 
> BTW, I still haven't seen "The Invisible Song-Writer" on the Muse Forum. I guess you already have enough to do, eh Doug?


Thanks, K. I tried to log into Muse when you mentioned it long ago but I couldn't register for some reason. Gave up.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

In February there is an album writing community called FAWM, FAWM: February Album Writing Month

Lots of support and encouragement there and the deadline of needing to write at minimum a song every 2 days can be good for some (like me) who need a deadline. It also speaks to the need for writing to be a practice, not just fortunate inspiration. I did it a few years back and am thinking about doing it again, but between online teaching and report cards due the first week of February I'm a little concerned I won't finish.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

@mrmatt1972 

I looked at FAWM and decided that "song-on-demand" was not for me .

For a "deadline" to get me off my ass, I use online collaboration with other disciplined writers. 

I collab'd with a guy in England who replied with his track or revision within a day every time. Perfect! These lyrics are nothing more than an excuse to play electric guitar, but four of us had a lot of fun doing it.


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https://soundcloud.com/user-453487393-638909333%2Fzombie-shuffle-cc-master-dec-30

Zombie apocalypse in the neighbourhood
Everyone fought back at them the best they could
Now it's pretty obvious it won't do any good
Zombies always win, I think that's understood
No one left but me, that's just the way things are
No one left but me -- just me and my guitar.

Peeking through my window, sneaking through my door
Creeping on a rooftop, can't take it anymore
Not a single soul is left from my life before
But I gotta play guitar again -- and that's for sure
So I took it from the case, and plugged it in my amp
Got Dad's old generator out, made sure it had some gas.

The zombies came a-shufflin' just like you'd expect
Bustin' down the fence and climbing on the deck
I could see them through the windows surrounding the entire place
With their classic mangulations and damage to the face
So I broke out my best licks, this was my final chance
Then thru the window I suddenly saw those zombies start to dance!

Doing the zombie shuffle, stompin on the deck
Doing the zombie shuffle, they're brain-dead but what the heck
Doing the zombie shuffle, trampling on the fence
Doing the zombie shuffle, hey! they're the perfect audience
I was feeling kinda hopeful, maybe the worst was past
But then Dad's old generator, suddenly ran outa gas!

----------------

Today I had a good laugh with a guy in Delaware who was waiting for me to arrange the chorus because he was too lazy to do it, and I was waiting for him to do it because I was too lazy. This is our second collab and we enjoy keeping each other on our toes!


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## JethroTech (Dec 8, 2015)

There is a ton of great info in this thread. A big part of how I make my living comes from creative writing and thinking on my feet but I've never been able to finish a song lyric. I'm inspired now. I appreciate all the help. Thank you.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Easy! I dont.

I’ve written things that were supposed to be lyrics, without music, all scrapped. The “nonsense placeholders” is how my old singer did it iirc. I can sing (not great) but Im not a lyricist. Many singers arent.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

MFW777 said:


> don’t be yourself


This is gold. 

I have avoided commenting on the songwriters forum because I didn't know how to express it without possibly offending (especially teenagers and post adolescents). Three simple words. I can't name one Tweedy song but it's not the first time I have been impressed with his comment somewhere. "If it has no soundscape, it's folk." 

Better get that book! Thanks.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I often write lyrics before the music.

I tend to get fragments, phrases that roll nicely off the tongue and then build around those ideas, often while soaking in the tub or steaming off on my porch swings after a soak.


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## JethroTech (Dec 8, 2015)

MFW777 said:


> I just finished a great book on this subject and highly recommend “How To Write One Song” by Jeff Tweedy (Wilco/ Uncle Tupelo/ Tweedy/ Loose Fur).
> 
> It covers areas most Songwriters eventually struggle with like motivation, writers block, inspiration etc. Jeff shares incredible advice on how he structures his process, creating “word ladders”, “stealing words”, playing with rhymes, giving yourself permission, “don’t be yourself“ and a host of other useful concepts.
> 
> A short easy read full of useful ideas. Even if you don’t like Jeff/ Wilco etc. this is both entertaining and full of ways to get started or refine your process.


I had never heard of this book. I know who Jeff Tweedy/Wilco etc. is, but didn't know about the book. I looked it up on Amazon just now and they have same day delivery! I'll be reading it when I go to bed tonight. Thanks for the tip.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Badly, that's how.

Write all you can; toss 90 % of it (not literally, keep them because sometimes there's a good line or 2 you can use to make something better later, and generally learn from your mistakes). Try to avoid cliches (nobody ever needs to rhyme please and knees ever again, in fact don't worry about rhyming at all; cadence is much more important). Write what you know/feel. Don't feel bad that most of it sucks.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Milkman said:


> while soaking in the tub or steaming off on my porch swings after a soak.


This is exactly how I wrote "*Hot*-*Tubbin*'"for Foreigner. Although they changed the lyrics somewhat, I believe that all the poetic devices are still in place.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

KapnKrunch said:


> This is exactly how I wrote "*Hot*-*Tubbin*'"for Foreigner. Although they changed the lyrics somewhat, I believe that all the poetic devices are still in place.


Should have sold it to The Carpenters (or The Bells). They would have left your lyrics in place and made it a hit.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I'm more of a ham 'n egger when it comes to lyrics: simple, colloquial and funny like Bon Scott's stuff from the 70s. I find they're easy for the singer to remember too.

Send you to heaven
Take you to hell
I ain't foolin'
Can't you tell


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

I can't either. I have tried. Lord, how I have tried. I have written some really cool lines, and think, ya... I'm onto something, but I can't get it to flow all together. So I end up "stitching" the good bits with really weak, or cliché bits. Then I cringe, and scrap it.


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

Since I was a kid I've been interested in writing short stories. I even took a few classes in creative writing later in life but for the 50 years that I played in cover bands I never even thought of writing a song. Now that I'm an old man and don't play out anymore I've begun trying to write. For me it's a simple formula. Just pick a topic, write a short story in my head and put rimes to it.


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https://soundcloud.com/user-302874328%2Fshreveport-lady-original-song-by-don-wiklund-and-michael-cross-original-lyrics-by-don-wiklund


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)




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## Norman231 (May 5, 2014)

I don't think I could write good lyrics if my life depended on it. But I'm just reading Phil Collins' autobiography, and perhaps some of what he wrote will be of use to you.

"In the Air Tonight" was written about / to his first ex-wife, who had an affair with their interior decorator and then left him. From page 152 of "Phil Collins - Not Dead Yet": _ "In the Air Tonight is 99.9 percent sung spontaneously, the words dreamt up from out of nowhere. "If you told me you were drowning, I would not lend a hand" comes form a place of resentment and frustration. "Wipe off that grin, I know where you've been, it's all been a pack of lies": I'm firing back, refusing to take it lying down, giving it as good as I've got.
_
He notes that he also wrote "Against All Odds" at the same time, and that he wanted her back._ "These were up and down times." _One day he's pissed off and writes "In the Air Tonight", and some time later he's feeling broken, incredibly sad, and writes "Against All Odds" as he wants her back.

So the guy seems to write his best stuff when he just spews his emotion out onto the paper. He doesn't try to explain what it's about to the listener, or detail any of the backstory (my wife left me), he just scribbles down his emotion in a way that doesn't always make sense, even to him. 

There's a lot of cliché in "Against All Odds", but I would suggest it still works, because it's coming from his gut. And most of us can relate.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Norman231 said:


> I don't think I could write good lyrics if my life depended on it. But I'm just reading Phil Collins' autobiography, and perhaps some of what he wrote will be of use to you.
> 
> "In the Air Tonight" was written about / to his first ex-wife, who had an affair with their interior decorator and then left him. From page 152 of "Phil Collins - Not Dead Yet": _ "In the Air Tonight is 99.9 percent sung spontaneously, the words dreamt up from out of nowhere. "If you told me you were drowning, I would not lend a hand" comes form a place of resentment and frustration. "Wipe off that grin, I know where you've been, it's all been a pack of lies": I'm firing back, refusing to take it lying down, giving it as good as I've got.
> _
> ...


So basically to be good at writing lyrics, the key is to get divorced a lot. Makes sense.


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## Norman231 (May 5, 2014)

Brunz said:


> So basically to be good at writing lyrics, the key is to get divorced a lot. Makes sense.


Hah! Maybe.
Or you could go with "use your pain/emotion". Later in life he wrote an emotional song to his young daughter, who he didn't get to see much due to non-stop touring, and the sentiment was essentially "please be careful, look both ways before crossing the street, because I'm not there to protect you."
Mushy, cheesy stuff, but it seems to work. 

He also thought "Against All Odds" wasn't a very good song, a b side at best. Maybe file that one under "we are our own worst critics."


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