# NHL 22/23



## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

OK, let's start the thread in July talking about off-season trades and Free-Agent signings. 

Has Dubas lost the plot?? 









Maple Leafs Acquire Goaltender Matt Murray In Trade With Ottawa


The Toronto Maple Leafs announced today that the hockey club has acquired goaltender Matt Murray, a third-round selection in the 2023 NHL Draft and a seventh-round selection in the 2024 NHL Draft from the Ottawa Senators in exchange for future considerations. Ottawa will retain 25% of Murray's...




www.nhl.com





Discuss...


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

🤔 More head scratchers than an Agatha Christie novel...which were written about the same era as their last Cup victory. Just kiddin' Leaf fans.
I was interested to see Colorado leave Kuemper and go with my Rangers iffy backup as their go to guy. They saved $$ which allowed Nichuskin to resign, but losing Kadri may be a problem. They have more talent to protect Georgiev then the TML have to protect...Murray. That can't be the Leafs answer.


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## DC23 (Mar 28, 2014)

I liked Murray in Ottawa. The Nick Paul trade hurt after seeing him in the finals. It'd be nice if Ottawa could draw in a big name instead of trading away all talent after development.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

leftysg said:


> 🤔 More head scratchers than an Agatha Christie novel...which were written about the same era as their last Cup victory. Just kiddin' Leaf fans.
> I was interested to see Colorado leave Kuemper and go with my Rangers iffy backup as their go to guy. They saved $$ which allowed Nichuskin to resign, but losing Kadri may be a problem. They have more talent to protect Georgiev then the TML have to protect..*.Murray. That can't be the Leafs answer.*


Right?!?!?!?! 

Murray cannot be the answer to solve the Leafs chronic playoff exits. Unless of course, they are trying to avoid an early exit by not making the playoffs at all.


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

SWLABR said:


> Right?!?!?!?!
> 
> Murray cannot be the answer to solve the Leafs chronic playoff exits.


Why not?


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

terminalvertigo said:


> Why not?


Injuries and a horrible save percentage?

I have to think he is coming in as the backup. 

To me, the most interesting puzzle pieces are Kane and Qadri. Both quality players with some baggage.

And Malkin!


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

Rollin Hand said:


> Injuries and a horrible save percentage?
> 
> I have to think he is coming in as the backup.
> 
> ...


Murray has tons of potential, and can potentially be the big gamble that will pay off. As a goaltender myself, you can see he is extremely talented but has been recently riddled with unfortunate health.


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## Choo5440 (Oct 24, 2020)

My guess is dubas is going for 1a/1b shared net, just have no clue who else he'll bring in to share it.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

terminalvertigo said:


> Why not?


This has the potential to be Andrew Raycroft all over again. Gambling on a return to form. Granted, Murray has a pedigree Raycroft did not. Cups vs Calder, but I don't think he will regain his former dominance. 

I sincerely hope he does. I would love to eat my words. Please feel free to throw these in my face in a few months. I hope you can.


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

Rollin Hand said:


> Injuries and a horrible save percentage?


So you'd rather have seen Dubas hitch the train to an unproven, late blooming goaltender for the next 5 years? I like Jack Campbell but not at the rumoured 5x5mil he's about to get in Edmonton. remember, Jack was hurt last year too and was not close to the same in the second half as the first.

Also, this team isn't built from the back out like some. They're much more Colorado than Calgary, as it were. Murray's save % last year, amid injuries, was .906. Darcy Kuemper had to put up .902 in the playoffs to win a cup. When they win, it will be because they overwhelmed offensively.

It's a gamble...but not an unrealistic one.

Personally my preferred future was either Marc-Andre Fleury or Gorgiev. They were gone before Dubas could dump Mrazk's salary. I also think they stayed away from Gorgiev 'cause they think either Kallgren or Woll will work out. Woll especially looked good in his limited starts last year going 3-1 with a .911


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

TimH said:


> So you'd rather have seen Dubas hitch the train to an unproven, late blooming goaltender for the next 5 years? I like Jack Campbell but not at the rumoured 5x5mil he's about to get in Edmonton. remember, Jack was hurt last year too and was not close to the same in the second half as the first.
> 
> Also, this team isn't built from the back out like some. They're much more Colorado than Calgary, as it were. Murray's save % last year, amid injuries, was .906. Darcy Kuemper had to put up .902 in the playoffs to win a cup.
> 
> ...


I'm not sold on Campbell either. If they could have signed him at the beginning of last season for the paltry amount they were offering, then yes, keep Campbell. But not at 5 & 5. Best wishes to Mr. Holland and the Oil's.

I am not a Sports Writer, just a fan. I don't profess to have the script Dubas _should_ have followed, but as a long suffering fan, I don't see this as a path to the promised land. I will also not criticize everything Dubas does outright for the sake of it.
I'm just not confident he's made good on his promise to solidify the net, and get them past the first round.


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

What you would prefer he do/did?


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

EchoWD40 said:


> Murray has tons of potential, and can potentially be the big gamble that will pay off. As a goaltender myself, you can see he is extremely talented but has been recently riddled with unfortunate health.


There is another factor, and that is the Sens aren't all that good yet. Thus, Murray could look great for the Leafs. I am just not sold. Dubas, however, is known for doing his homework and getting value.

If they put up 5 and Murray lets in 4, it's still a win.

And yes, $25M over five years is too much for Campbell. Hopefully the Oilers put a team option in there.

The goalies available this year seem to be good, not great. I am a big believer in not paying a goalie alot unless they are, for example, Cujo or Roy or Hasek.


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## Dru Edwards (9 mo ago)

I wonder where Malkin will end up. He asked for 3 years / $7M and Pens offered 3 years / $6M. Even though he stated he's going to free agency perhaps the Pens will reach out and offer something in the middle. The problem is that in 3 years he won't be worth $6M.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

Dru Edwards said:


> I wonder where Malkin will end up. He asked for 3 years / $7M and Pens offered 3 years / $6M. Even though he stated he's going to free agency perhaps the Pens will reach out and offer something in the middle. The problem is that in 3 years he won't be worth $6M.


Apparently he actually wants to stay, or so I have read. But I can see some team coming in and blowing him away with an offer. So he might get what he wants, and has to play .500 hockey for the rest of his career.

I'd take less for one more run with Sid. But that's just me, and it's not my money.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

terminalvertigo said:


> What you would prefer he do/did?


I honestly don't know...as I said: 

_"I am not a Sports Writer, just a fan. I don't profess to have the script Dubas _should_ have followed, but as a long suffering fan, I don't see this as a path to the promised land. I will also not criticize everything Dubas does outright for the sake of it.
I'm just not confident he's made good on his promise to solidify the net, and get them past the first round."_

I suppose it's my reaction to the announcement that shows how I felt about it. It did not instill confidence. 

But what would I have done?? I'm not the GM of the Leafs... I don't know what was realistic. Maybe this was his only viable option. To go after the _hope_ of a return to stellar numbers. When Murray landed in Ottawa, there was much rejoicing from my friends of that team. Murray was very shortly removed from his glory. As a Leaf fan, I was kind of worried. 

I don't dislike Dubas. He's made some good, some not so good deals. Every GM does that. We remember Fletcher landing Gilmour far more than trading the farm away to get Clark back. 

I've also stated I hope I am wrong. I hope this is not Raycroft 2.0 and we are left scratching our heads. I'd love to eat my words.


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## Dru Edwards (9 mo ago)

Rollin Hand said:


> Apparently he actually wants to stay, or so I have read. But I can see some team coming in and blowing him away with an offer. So he might get what he wants, and has to play .500 hockey for the rest of his career.
> 
> I'd take less for one more run with Sid. But that's just me, and it's not my money.


I too think Malkin should stick around with the Pens unless an elite team reaches out to him. There will be a couple of teams that will overpay for Malkin but guessing they aren't Cup contenders.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

I read a wild one. If they don't resign everyone, Colorado has enough cap space for Malkin.


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## Ronniedblues (Jan 29, 2021)

I’m a lifer Leaf fan, ever since I can remember (’71 Parent and Plante, or was it Gamble?). Until they can win a round it doesn’t matter to me what they do anymore….


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

Coming back to Campbell…you know what’s stupid? The CBA was just recently amended to prevent teams from talking to UFA’s until Wednesday? How is it everyone knows Campbell is going to Edmonton at 5x5 if they haven’t talked? Stupid…


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## Choo5440 (Oct 24, 2020)

Dang, there is some serious firepower available from the UFAs this summer.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

Well, Malkin and Kane are staying put.


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## Choo5440 (Oct 24, 2020)

Sounds like Kane and Toews are going to stick until trade deadline, and move for another chance at a cup


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## Choo5440 (Oct 24, 2020)

And sounds like Ilya Samsonov is the Leafs 1B in net


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

Choo5440 said:


> And sounds like Ilya Samsonov is the Leafs 1B in net


 Where are you hearing this?


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## Choo5440 (Oct 24, 2020)

terminalvertigo said:


> Where are you hearing this?


the Athletic (subscription site) but it sounds like a deal is confirmed, but no numbers yet.


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## Choo5440 (Oct 24, 2020)

and Claude Giroux signed in Ottawa for 3 years. The sens are going to be fun to watch this year


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Choo5440 said:


> and Claude Giroux signed in Ottawa for 3 years. The sens are going to be fun to watch this year


They are going to be very competitive.

Kane staying for essentially Nuge money is a total shock to me, I am not his biggest fan but no doubt this is a huge win for the Oilers. Still hearing Connor Brown to Oil, if we give up Puli in the deal it will be a mistake an make the Sens even better.


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

TimH said:


> Coming back to Campbell…you know what’s stupid? The CBA was just recently amended to prevent teams from talking to UFA’s until Wednesday? How is it everyone knows Campbell is going to Edmonton at 5x5 if they haven’t talked? Stupid…


case in point…this deal was announced exactly 4 minutes into the FA window. Tampering much?


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## Dru Edwards (9 mo ago)

Can't believe that both Leafs goalies from last season, who the team were trusting their future on, are both gone. I agree with the moves though but Toronto needs better goaltending scouts (although Campbell did provide some highlights along the way).

Can't believe the Oilers went with Jake Campbell.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Jack Campbell was a fill-in goaltender for the leafs at best that did well some of the time. Like every team, they need to hope someone gets hot in goal this year. Dubas' goalie transactions may turn out to be genius, and I can't say there were any better options. Murray at least has Stanley cup experience, and he's younger than Campbell and a smaller cap hit. Goalies are all soft in the head, so the friendly faces in Toronto might help him turn around his game. Samsonov has potential, as do some of the goalies in development. Even the dude they drafted this year looks good on paper.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

I read an article this morning confirming the Samsonov signing. It was obviously written by a Leafs "staffer" titled "*Toronto Maple Leafs Have Intelligently Solved Goalie Issue*" First, it has yet to be determined if they have solved anything. 

It went on to say things like: _ ...acquiring Matt Murray earlier in the week in a no-risk move_. "No risk"??? Are you sure it's no risk? He's a pretty broken form of his previous self, and he's been given the #1 job. That's at least a little risky. (Lots of potential upside though. If he regains form, we are laughing)

And: _One thing *we know for sure*: The Leafs have solved their goaltending troubles with intelligence and creativity, and now have two goalies with high upside, and very *strong odds* that one of them will steal the crease and help them *win a Stanley Cup*_. 

"_Know for sure_". Uhmmmm... 
"_Strong odds that one of them will steal the crease and help them win a Stanley Cup_" Strong odds?? Win the Cup?? I think they are closer to Raycroft 2.0 than hoisting the Cup. 

But, I will say they have _applied_ intelligence, and creativity to trying to solve, but no one has played a game yet. I doubt either have even been fitted for their equipment. Nothing has been solved other than filling a vacancy. Is that what the writer meant by "solved"?

Problem: We have no goalies. Zero. We traded our back up, and we can't afford to re-sign last years #1. 
Solution: We traded for this guy, signed this guy. 

Problem, solved. 

I am a huge Leaf fan, and I will be the first to jump up and down signing halleluiah if they have a successful season, but there is so much fire-power up front it's insane. A forward group of a generation is suiting up this year. This is a tiny window to have these guys competing at this level. But, the defense is still incomplete, and I am not convinced this goalie tandem will push each other to give a 1-2 unstoppable... err.. _unbeatable_ performance night after night. 

So frustrated, for so long. The song of the Leaf fan.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

I don't think the Leafs are in a demonstrably worse situation for goaltenders than they were this time last year (feel free to tell me I'm wrong), and they managed 115 points and took the conference champs to seven games.


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## NB_Terry (Feb 2, 2006)

Gaudreau going to CBJ for less money that the Flames offered is completely bizarre. 

Isles & Hawks supposedly offered him more money than CBJ as well..


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## PBGas (Jan 14, 2017)

Matt Murray is a solid goalie, however, the real issue is if he can overcome injury and have a healthy season. The pattern would suggest otherwise but there is hope. If they can get past the first round, mission accomplished because this continues to be the curse each year.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

I heard they had the best goalie in hockey at some point last year.


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## Dru Edwards (9 mo ago)

NB_Terry said:


> Gaudreau going to CBJ for less money that the Flames offered is completely bizarre.
> 
> Isles & Hawks supposedly offered him more money than CBJ as well..


I'm guessing Gaudreau didn't get the $ amount he wanted from the east coast teams (or they didn't want him) so he signed with Columbus rather than wait too long and end up signing somewhere else for less. I like the Blue Jackets and I've seen some games there but I don't think he'll see a deep playoff run in the next few years.


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## Choo5440 (Oct 24, 2020)

I'm reading that Gaudreau only NJ had an offer in the 9 million range on the east coast teams, and columbus came in with 9.75 to ice it. Islanders, Flyers didn't have an offer close to that


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## Dru Edwards (9 mo ago)

Choo5440 said:


> I'm reading that Gaudreau only NJ had an offer in the 9 million range on the east coast teams, and columbus came in with 9.75 to ice it. Islanders, Flyers didn't have an offer close to that


That doesn't surprise me. Gaudreau had a great year but he isn't anywhere near a $10M player.

I just looked at Crosby's contract. He was paid the majority of his $104M / 12 year contract early on (and $9M this past season) but the next 3 years his paycheck is only $3M per year but a cap of $8.7M. I'd pay him more than Gaudreau.


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## Choo5440 (Oct 24, 2020)

Crosby's isn't really a fair comparison because he intentionally left money on the table to help the team sign Malkin, Letang, and Fleury back then (plus, he also wanted the AAV to be 8.7)


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## Dru Edwards (9 mo ago)

Choo5440 said:


> Crosby's isn't really a fair comparison because he intentionally left money on the table to help the team sign Malkin, Letang, and Fleury back then (plus, he also wanted the AAV to be 8.7)


You're right. Crosby's also a generational player which makes it an unfair comparison. I remember the big discussion when he signed that contract... would he be healthy enough to still play at an elite level - if he even played.


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

Hammerhands said:


> I heard they had the best goalie in hockey at some point last year.


Well Toronto, "No Soup for you"!


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

And the puck has dropped on another Leaf season. 
Anyone still questioning Murray’s “bounce back season” is still questioning. 
One game means nothing with 81 left, but I didn’t see much battle out of him.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

New season, same Leafs


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Leafs team D looks awful, and uncoordinated. Same is true of the Oilers, who have battled back from 0-2 and 1-3 to 3-3 end 2. Holloway might be back riding buses after the 0-1 giveaway.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

SWLABR said:


> And the puck has dropped on another Leaf season.
> Anyone still questioning Murray’s “bounce back season” is still questioning.
> One game means nothing with 81 left, but I didn’t see much battle out of him.


Anyone know why they traded Jack Campbell?


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Guitar101 said:


> Anyone know why they traded Jack Campbell?


They didn't. They couldn't afford him under the salary cap, he left as a free agent and they signed Murray. MM = $3.75M JC = $5M. They probably could have made it work but more wanted to move on, I think.

JC had a shaky start for us last night but was legit very good the last 2 periods, Oilers came back from 0-3 to win 5-3.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

keto said:


> They didn't. They couldn't afford him under the salary cap, he left as a free agent and they signed Murray. MM = $3.75M JC = $5M. They probably could have made it work but more wanted to move on, I think.
> 
> JC had a shaky start for us last night but was legit very good the last 2 periods, Oilers came back from 0-3 to win 5-3.


Murray on the other hand was pedestrian at best.
I really, really hope he settles down. He won two Cups on very good Pens teams. Leafs have a forward group of (possibly) a generation. If MM can shine, the Buds could be legit.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

SWLABR said:


> Murray on the other hand was pedestrian at best.
> I really, really hope he settles down. He won two Cups on very good Pens teams. Leafs have a forward group of (possibly) a generation. If MM can shine, the Buds could be legit.


I thought the whole team looked like shit, as they always do the first game of the season or any time they play a crappy team. Murray wasn't as bad as I thought he would be.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

BlueRocker said:


> I thought the whole team looked like shit, as they always do the first game of the season or any time they play a crappy team. Murray wasn't as bad as I thought he would be.


True. Very unfair to put the loss solely on Murray.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Now that!! Was a gritty win. Samsonov was a bit leaky early, but then held down a pretty good game.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

What an odd ruling on the Leafs third goal. 
Net was way off before the puck crossed the line. I thought they’d (at most) call a penalty shot. Call on the ice was just a minor. Then the refs revisited again, and called it a goal. Said the goal was “imminent”. I guess meaning if the net was there, it would be a goal. A nice gift, but odd.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Buffalo's Thompson scores 5 goals in one game; 4 of them in one period.









Buffalo Sabres - Columbus Blue Jackets - December 7th, 2022


The official National Hockey League web site includes features, news, rosters, statistics, schedules, teams, live game radio broadcasts, and video clips.




www.nhl.com


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I picked him up off the waiver wire in my league, in w2. He’s been a big contributor to my current 1st place standing. The boys are telling me ‘it’s a long year’. 😎


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

It may be premature again but the Leafs are looking pretty good and one of the few teams that beat Boston this year who are at the top of the league. One of the most surprising thing for the Leafs is their goaltending. It's still early in the season so we need a longer period of time to see if this is gong to be the standard they can expect so time will tell.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Steadfastly said:


> It may be premature again but the Leafs are looking pretty good and one of the few teams that beat Boston this year who are at the top of the league. One of the most surprising thing for the Leafs is their goaltending. It's still early in the season so we need a longer period of time to see if this is gong to be the standard they can expect so time will tell.


You just sit back and wait for the first round bud, you don't need to worry about them Leafs


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Mark Brown said:


> You* just sit back and wait for the first round bud*, you don't need to worry about them Leafs


Why do you think I said_* "time will tell"?  *_


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

The Leafs are "beyond expiry date overdue" for a playoff run. One thing I have faith in is that the lug nuts will loosen before the finish line.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

The Leafs are having another bad game! When will it stop? They are winning again. This time 4-0 against the Ducks.


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## Choo5440 (Oct 24, 2020)

Steadfastly said:


> The Leafs are having another bad game! When will it stop? They are winning again. This time 4-0 against the Ducks.


dang, that ended 7-0.
Go Leafs Go!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Choo5440 said:


> dang, that ended 7-0.
> Go Leafs Go!


They truly need to up their game. They only got 19 points out of a possible 20 in their last 10 games.


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## Choo5440 (Oct 24, 2020)

Sigh. Just so disappointed. The bruins' parents must be so proud 😅


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

Sorry Mitch. Let's go Rangers!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Is Montreal destined to end up in last place again? I wouldn't be too upset if that happened.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Well, Ovie got to 801 tonight to tie Howe.









Ovechkin gets 801st goal for Capitals, ties Howe for 2nd in NHL history


Alex Ovechkin tied Gordie Howe for second on the NHL goals list by scoring his 801st for the Washington Capitals against the Winnipeg Jets at Capital One Arena on Friday.




www.nhl.com


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Howe had another 174 in the WHA.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

McDavid is having a ridiculous career year, and I get to watch 75+ games/yr, it’s awesome. 5 points tonight without a lot of the usual fireworks, just speed & release. Fastest to 70+ since Mario & Jagr.

Skinner continues to build a Calder case, we are WAY overdue to produce one. SV% about .918 after tonight, approaching top 5 NHL. Apparently, JCampbell has been practicing in modern larger equipment. He’s the same size as Skinner, but appears way smaller because he uses many generations old smaller equipment. I think it can only be to his benefit, but it’s also a much different feel, they say, and whether it appears in game soon is unknown. Skinner something like 10/12 starts recently.


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