# practice monitors



## old crow (Aug 17, 2006)

The space is 10' x 20' and I want the highest spl and natural sound possible w./o. feedback. ( not asking for much )
Let the sugestions roll in...


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

hey old crow. 

judging by the guitars that go through your possession, i'm going to guess that you're into organic stuff with a big vocal presence (blues roots bluegrass country, that kind of thing)? in that case i'd highly recommend the Electrovoice SxA-250 speakers. they're great for the buck, and have a real nice vocal presence built in. they're active, powered to about 450w a piece, and have minor mixing features on the back panel. new they're in the $800 each range. the max spl is 125 1w/1m so they're good and loud, although of course by nature, less natural sounding speakers sound louder... so they don't sound as loud as mackie SRM450s, but they'll meter out about the same. 

if money's not an object, then you'll want to go with Meyer sound MJF-212 for arguably the best stage monitor on the market. other strong contenders would be the EAW SM84N, or JBL's excellent venue series.


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## old crow (Aug 17, 2006)

suttree said:


> hey old crow.
> 
> judging by the guitars that go through your possession, i'm going to guess that you're into organic stuff with a big vocal presence (blues roots bluegrass country, that kind of thing)? in that case i'd highly recommend the Electrovoice SxA-250 speakers. they're great for the buck, and have a real nice vocal presence built in. they're active, powered to about 450w a piece, and have minor mixing features on the back panel. new they're in the $800 each range. the max spl is 125 1w/1m so they're good and loud, although of course by nature, less natural sounding speakers sound louder... so they don't sound as loud as mackie SRM450s, but they'll meter out about the same.
> 
> if money's not an object, then you'll want to go with Meyer sound MJF-212 for arguably the best stage monitor on the market. other strong contenders would be the EAW SM84N, or JBL's excellent venue series.


Suttree, you must be psychotic  That is indeed the stuff I try to play.
I've tried all the Mackie line and fine , to me, it sounds like a bingo call or a meat draw. All I want is vocals, no bottom, none...
I may try some QSC's tomorrow. Now I'm going beyond my budget but it may be necessary and I may have to sell more geetars 
Back to the voodoo lounge....


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

yah a lot of people rave about the mackies, to me they sound just terrible. please try and get your ears on a set of those EV's, i bet you'll love them.. they just have that vocal "something".. the QSC stuff is supposed to be pretty good, but i've not heard them myself at this time. the brand is a very good one.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Yorkville Sound makes some very nice powered monitors. To my ear they sound quite transparent.

http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=29&cat=2&id=371

The only Mackie speakers I've heard that I do like are their powered subs. I haven't tried their other cabs. I'm happy with the Mackie board I have though.


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

+1 for the EV SxA-250s. Not that I've tried every brand out there, but I have a pair of these and they're very nice IMO


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## old crow (Aug 17, 2006)

I'm not aware of an EV dealer in victoria, but will search for one.
I'm realizing that the ultimate monitor would have 5"-8" speakers and a huge horn witha a 2" throat, and at least 200watts, but try and find such a thing for under $1k. Anyone seen such a thing?
Something like this.
http://www.mackie.com/products/s408/


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

old crow said:


> I'm not aware of an EV dealer in victoria, but will search for one.
> I'm realizing that the ultimate monitor would have 5"-8" speakers and a huge horn witha a 2" throat, and at least 200watts, but try and find such a thing for under $1k. Anyone seen such a thing?
> Something like this.
> http://www.mackie.com/products/s408/


that technology is taken from EAW (which mackie bought a couple of years back)... it's good, works well (although not necessarily that much better than a good ol' 15" and horn). you will not find it under $1000, it's just too costly to make for that kind of price point (4 speakers, and a horn adds up fast). I think the EAW version is about $1400 ish a pop? but that's passive, you'll still need two amps and a crossover on your monitor chain. have you considered going in-ear? that'll give you the sound you want for the dollar (but they're definitely not to everyone's tastes.. be sure to rent a system first).


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

you can drop an email to mark kulas at PAG canada to ask who would be an EV dealer in your area (he's a really decent guy).


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## old crow (Aug 17, 2006)

suttree said:


> you can drop an email to mark kulas at PAG canada to ask who would be an EV dealer in your area (he's a really decent guy).


Thanks,
I've emailed him. May bring home the QSC hpr 122i to try, or the Mackie SAz series.
Tried a Mackie SRM 350 last night and after rolling off everything below 125hz got a decent sound, with less boom, but not much poop left after the roll off. I'm considering retrying the 450's with the same e.q. as they have a 1 3/4" horn and lots more power.


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## old crow (Aug 17, 2006)

Brought home some QSC 122i's today and they are real nice, so good I think I should give up trying to sing :-(
Nice cut at 100hz really sharpens up the vocals.
These things are way more than I need, but I may keep them and use them for front end at gigs, or to monitor the whole band...
Of course the feedback problem is still there and I appreciate the info on that.
First thing I'll try is various placements for the mikes, then some dampening...
Wireless headphones were alot easier


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

old crow said:


> Brought home some QSC 122i's today and they are real nice, so good I think I should give up trying to sing :-(
> Nice cut at 100hz really sharpens up the vocals.
> These things are way more than I need, but I may keep them and use them for front end at gigs, or to monitor the whole band...
> Of course the feedback problem is still there and I appreciate the info on that.
> ...


placement first. have you considered trying different mics? the SM58 is hardly the be-all and end-all of mic technology these days... there's a few mics out there with excellent feedback rejection... check sennheiser's evolution series (the e865 is a great great mic), or audix's OM7... 

if you're having feedback problems though, then those monitors aren't way more than you need. the extra power will equal headroom, which should give you more gain before feedback. how hot are you running the mics in the mixer strips? they should peak at zero with a good strong "check", not shouted...


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## old crow (Aug 17, 2006)

suttree said:


> placement first. have you considered trying different mics? the SM58 is hardly the be-all and end-all of mic technology these days... there's a few mics out there with excellent feedback rejection... check sennheiser's evolution series (the e865 is a great great mic), or audix's OM7...
> 
> if you're having feedback problems though, then those monitors aren't way more than you need. the extra power will equal headroom, which should give you more gain before feedback. how hot are you running the mics in the mixer strips? they should peak at zero with a good strong "check", not shouted...


I do now have extra headroom and will be moving things around today.
I'm using an old Sennheiser 421 and an old Beyer, that I like.
I have some shures that I don't care for , so may try to trade them against something you guys suggested.


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

I didn't read all of the posts in this thread, but if you want loud, (insert sound you want hear), without feedback what you need is an EQ. A 15 band will work fine if you are new to the concept, but a 31 band gives you finer control to shape the sound.

Every room, humidity level, crowd, placement, day of the week - and you name it will have an effect on how speakers sound. An EQ is the tool that overcomes these variables and allows you some level of consistency in different environments. It can (and usually is) also be used to shape the sound of an audio system as long as you aren't trying to get something which are beyond its limitations.

No matter how hard you try though, you can't completely overcome all of the variables so sometimes you have to settle for the best you can get in a given situation. 

As a soundman, the worst situation to be thrown into is one where you either do not have an EQ or it is 'locked out' so you can't touch it.


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## old crow (Aug 17, 2006)

Did some minor shuffling around today and I'm getting lots of crystal clear volume now and running backing tracks ( bass and drums ) thru them at the same time.
I'm starting to be very impressed by these speakers. No boom or mid honk, plenty of highs...quite natural sounding. The 100k cut out helps alot and believe it or not there's still plenty of low end. Interesting how 12" and 1" horn can sound soo good...never would have thunk it.
Ultimately, I'd like a dedicated keyboard rig and a seperate monitor rig w/ 5" - 8" speakers and horns, but that is just a dream lofu


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