# Damnber Alerts



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Wake me up for a tornado, an serious situation where I live. Don’t keep alerting me in the middle of the night for something going on in another city 7 hours away.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

They work. Stop complaining.


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## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

Yeah I don’t think this is a gripe you want to push.

Somebody’s kid is missing. If you get woken up, suck it up buttercup.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Perhaps they could just rethink the alarm signal. I don't mind being given a heads up about a missing child but I don't need an alert signal that is at least twice as loud as my volume setting and in that extremely annoying emergency beep. Scares me and the cats  Save that for the local tornado warning. For a missing person just run the alert banner, in red, every half hour or so until they're found.


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## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

Wow, I’m surprised that anyone would complain about an amber alert.


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## Guest (May 14, 2019)

Turn off your phone.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Fuck, you don’t have much to do or much to complain about if you’re bitching about being notified for a missing child. Get a hobby!


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

1SweetRide said:


> Wake me up for a tornado, an serious situation where I live. Don’t keep alerting me in the middle of the night for something going on in another city 7 hours away.


If you had read the alert, this alert was for a child from Sudbury that was taken on a bus to Toronto. It could just as easily have been where you live so that covers a lot more area than just a city 7 hours away. My phone was going off downstairs so it can be annoying but necessary.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

An alert that asks me to be on the lookout for a black woman with a black child is virtually, but not completely, useless. The CBC have actually got this one nailed. They are running a banner in the lower right portion of the screen outlining the details and showing a picture of the victim and his alleged kidnapper. It is running continuously. Perfect.

edit - of course now that I've said that they've stopped running it. And no sign of it over commercials. Let's hope that means he's found.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

this is really fucking stupid. anyone who agrees that amber alerts for a missing child is not worth your minor inconvenience, is equally as fucking stupid.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Found with his mother in a TO condominium.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Wow, so much anger. I'm not complaining about amber alerts, my point is about the location of the alert being nowhere near me. Jeez guys, maybe it's time for me to take a break from this forum.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Budda said:


> They work. Stop complaining.





TB2019 said:


> Yeah I don’t think this is a gripe you want to push. Somebody’s kid is missing. If you get woken up, suck it up buttercup.





TB2019 said:


> Wow, I’m surprised that anyone would complain about an amber alert.


The straw poll here suggests that there may be enough of you willing to accept these alerts that those of us who don't want them could be permitted to turn them off, as citizens in many other countries can do. The CRTC decided to buck the trend in other countries as well as the persistent suggestions of all Canadian cell providers and make this an inescapable state interference in our lives.

The senior CRTC manager promoting it said in essence, "if you hear the signal your life is in danger". Er, no, not yet, and not likely ever! I've had about seven of these alerts now, every one of them a disruptive intrusion for something I can't do anything about.

I got two alerts last night at about 3:00 and 5:30 and have trouble sleeping as it is, so I'm running on 3 hours or less of sleep over something that occurred hours away from my quiet village that I could do nothing about. I didn't even look at my phone until I was resigned to being unable to get back to sleep.

A completely useless intrusion. There was and is NO point in sending me alerts when I'm at home in bed... not a damned thing I'm going to do about them!

I don't want to turn off my phone, because if someone in my own family (some of them in different time zones) needs me I want to be available to them. A family four hours away while I'm at home in bed? Sorry, not gonna be any help to them and don't want an alert about them.

I'll be writing to the CRTC today to demand *at least* the ability to opt out of these during night-time hours. Sounds like there will be plenty of others still happy to receive them for even the remotest chance that they can do something to help. Heroes all. Leave me the eff alone.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

What I find interesting is that in today's developmentally challenged, social media addicted society, especially on FB, if you even dare to complain about this system you will be hounded by the social media police, fired from your job and possibly beaten to a pulp by angry mobs of unemployed single mothers. I believe that the system should be optional. If you want to die in a tornado that's none of my business or anyone else's.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

boyscout said:


> The straw poll here suggests that there may be enough of you willing to accept these alerts that those of us who don't want them could be permitted to turn them off, as citizens in many other countries can do. The CRTC decided to buck the trend in other countries as well as the persistent suggestions of all Canadian cell providers and make this an inescapable state interference in our lives.
> 
> The senior CRTC manager promoting it said in essence, "if you hear the signal your life is in danger". Er, no, not yet, and not likely ever! I've had about seven of these alerts now, every one of them a disruptive intrusion for something I can't do anything about.
> 
> ...


So if you have kids or grand kids you would also like to opt out of them being able to send amber alerts in the case of an emergency for them right? 
I mean we wouldn't want to inconvenience someone with a loud noise, it's so inconsiderate, we don't care about them, they arent our kids.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I think there is a small kernel of truth to the original complaint. But the issue is not amber alerts (which ARE important and effective), so much as the centralized nature of broadcast these days, and the Toronto-centric nature of many sources. In other words, such alerts are relevant to the GTA, but often not especially relevant beyond that area. That's not a slag against T.O., but a reflection of how major broadcasters tend to swallow up smaller regional ones. If I put the TV to CTV in the morning, I'm not especially concerned with how things are looking on the DVP, Gardner, 427, or 400. Torontonians obviously would be and should be, but it means little to those outside the GTA.

Of course, the complete opposite is not particularly unifying either. If one ONLY learns of local events and never learns of things going on elsewhere, how can you expect to have any interest in, or empathy for, other communities? I'm still miffed that, years back, Rogers decided to eliminate Montreal CTV affiliate CFCF from the Ottawa-region basic cable service and replace it with a Detroit station. Unless they are Francophone, and regular watchers of TVA or other Quebec-based channels, or obsessively check the Montreal Gazette site, Anglophone Ottawans can learn little about events going on in a major city just 90 minutes away (closer to them than Belleville is from Toronto or Ottawa). Yonge St. feels more familiar to them than St. Catherine St.

All of that said, first-world problems.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Maybe the system needs tweaking, I don't know. If it works so far, I'm fine with it.

Often my phone is off so it doesn't interrupt lessons and practices. It wasn't off last night and this morning but it was two rooms away when it rang so it wasn't too jarring. Nevertheless, I don't mind, we're all in this together.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

RBlakeney said:


> So if you have kids or grand kids you would also like to opt out of them being able to send amber alerts in the case of an emergency for them right? I mean we wouldn't want to inconvenience someone with a loud noise, it's so inconsiderate, we don't care about them, they arent our kids.


 No. I do have kids and a grandchild. Two obvious facts are (a) they can contact me to help if I don't have my phone turned off and (b) there are plenty of heroes like you who would still receive the alert if I had my government alerts turned off in the middle of the night.

It's not "inconsiderate" that I won't leap out of bed; it's common sense that if I can't do a damned thing about it why do I need to know about it? I'm not going rise and go out and drive around on the miniscule chance I'd find the "kidnapper", and I bet you aren't either!

Waking a majority of the population of the province at 3:00am and 5:30am with an alert that a lot of them don't want and nearly all won't be able to do anything about is overreach. Make it optional, at least at night.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

boyscout said:


> No. I do have kids and a grandchild. Two obvious facts are (a) they can contact me to help if I don't have my phone turned off and (b) there are plenty of heroes like you who would still receive the alert if I had mine turned off.
> 
> Waking a majority of the population of the province at 3:00am with an alert that a lot of them don't want and nearly all won't be able to do anything about is overreach.


So you think that you should not be inconvenienced by someone's missing child, however if it was your family member, others like me should be inconvenienced?


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

mhammer said:


> But the issue is not amber alerts (which ARE important and effective), so much as the centralized nature of broadcast these days, and the Toronto-centric nature of many sources.


Everything I know about this system would suggest the opposite. Resources could be used in much more effective ways to prevent abduction in the first place, but spending money on social services is not politically popular or media friendly. 

Here's an interesting start:

After 20 years of AMBER Alerts… Are They Worth It?


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I never get them on my phone. I wouldn't complain if I did though.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

boyscout said:


> Waking a majority of the population of the province at 3:00am with an alert that a lot of them don't want and nearly all won't be able to do anything about is overreach.


Many of whom apparently decided to call 911 to complain about the alert. Duh!

I really would rather get the alerts than not, but I'd like the authorities to give some consideration to the nature, and timing of the alerts. Sending out an alert for a missing child, with no other information than he could be travelling from Sudbury to TO is completely useless. Still useless even if you have his ID. But the second you have a picture of him and the abductor then get the information out there. Instead of the annoying alarm send it out as a text message, include the pics and all relevant information. Save the fire alarm for Tornadoes or atom bombs, or as the CRTC chief stated "something that means your life is at risk".

It's not about the message, it's about the delivery. Get that right and all of this moaning and groaning will go away, and with any luck will still help potentially save a child in distress.

I don't like the CBC, but they did an excellent job covering this, kudos to them.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

RBlakeney said:


> So you think that you should not be inconvenienced by someone's missing child, however if it was your family member, others like me should be inconvenienced?


Oh fer gawd's sake. What did you do upon receiving the two alerts last night? Anything at all other than look at them? Fat lotta good you did then, right? Times millions.

The relatively-small bunch of people who were on the road and could actually assist by watching out for something, great, they got the alert. The overwhelming majority of the others, utterly pointless and disruptive. How many people today will be uncomfortable and unproductive, injured, or killed as a result of their sleep-deprived state? But by gawd that one child, by all means stay on your high horse for her and to hell with everyone else. You are such a hero.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

traynor_garnet said:


> Everything I know about this system would suggest the opposite. Resources could be used in much more effective ways to prevent abduction in the first place, but spending money on social services is not politically popular or media friendly.
> 
> Here's an interesting start:
> 
> After 20 years of AMBER Alerts… Are They Worth It?


It's certainly an interesting debate. Sure you want to help if you can, anyone would. But I can tell you that we have gotten 3 since it's debut and all 3 were called into police by disgruntled parents involved in a domestic dispute. All 3 kids were found safely with the other parent, including this one today. Now we all know that sometimes these parent things can end very badly. Unfortunately the police can't take any chances. Hell, if my ex wife or myself called the cops every time one of us were an hour late picking up or dropping of the kids back in the day you would have gotten 20 alerts. So as usual, abuses of the system will happen.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> Everything I know about this system would suggest the opposite. Resources could be used in much more effective ways to prevent abduction in the first place, but spending money on social services is not politically popular or media friendly.
> 
> Here's an interesting start:
> 
> After 20 years of AMBER Alerts… Are They Worth It?


I thought this was an interesting statement, and one i hadn't considered.

_Normal police investigation resolves the overwhelming majority of child abduction cases. Anything—including an AMBER Alert and the flurry of subsequent calls made by the public — which could inhibit that investigative process needs to be evaluated objectively, based on evidence. *Also, we need to verify that publicly disseminating the progress of a missing person search does not potentially assist the abductor, or even push them over the edge.*_


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Dont want alerts at night? Turn off your phone when you go to bed.

Boom. Solved.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

davetcan said:


> I thought this was an interesting statement, and one i hadn't considered.
> 
> _Normal police investigation resolves the overwhelming majority of child abduction cases. Anything—including an AMBER Alert and the flurry of subsequent calls made by the public — which could inhibit that investigative process needs to be evaluated objectively, based on evidence. *Also, we need to verify that publicly disseminating the progress of a missing person search does not potentially assist the abductor, or even push them over the edge.*_


Unfortunately we live in an age where people call 911 because they got pickles on their hamburger at McDonalds. Police have to go on what they are told. You can tell them anything. If you want to take a stab at your ex or husband/wife or whoever.... you just tell them you feel the child is in danger and off goes the bells and whistles. Most people would find it despicable to do such a thing, but there are lot's out there that really don't care. Hopefully these people, if they do such a thing are investigated and prosecuted.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

traynor_garnet said:


> Everything I know about this system would suggest the opposite. Resources could be used in much more effective ways to prevent abduction in the first place, but spending money on social services is not politically popular or media friendly. Here's an interesting start:
> After 20 years of AMBER Alerts… Are They Worth It?


From the linked article:

_AMBER Alerts do certainly, in a sense, work. A minority of them assist in the recovery of abducted children. ...the success rate among all Alerts issued will be, I estimate, around 20 percent.

There is always an element of uncertainty, of course, because it is impossible to know what “would have” happened in any given AMBER Alert case, had no Alert been issued. However, in my reading of the data, the number of children whose lives have been saved by AMBER Alert ranges from zero to something very close to zero.
...
These _[successful]_ cases *do not appear to typically involve apparently life-threatening abductors*. Rather, they are far more often deployed in familial/custodial disputes and other cases not suggestive of life-threatening peril to the abducted child(ren). Second, AMBER Alerts are most likely to end in a safe recovery when the abductor is related to the child(ren) and not likely to cause them harm.

In my reading of the data, *there is very little evidence that AMBER Alerts have “life-saving” effects*. The distinction between an AMBER Alert that assisted in recovering an abducted child or children, and an AMBER Alert that assisted in recovering a child/children from life-threatening circumstances, must be clear in the minds of those evaluating the system.
...
The best approach for locating abducted children is routine police investigation. There is no better proof of this than the fact that *even most AMBER Alerts have no effect, and that in the end it is hardworking investigators doing their jobs that gets the vast majority of these kids home.*_


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Budda said:


> Dont want alerts at night? Turn off your phone when you go to bed. Boom. Solved.


Then my own family can't reach me. Boom. No solution.

I should be able to say, "don't send me AMBER alerts between 10pm and 8am".


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Budda said:


> Dont want alerts at night? Turn off your phone when you go to bed.
> 
> Boom. Solved.


No. I’m on call 24/7.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

boyscout said:


> Then my own family can't reach me. Boom. No solution.
> 
> I should be able to say, "don't send me AMBER alerts between 10pm and 8am".


Shutting off cell phones is not an option for many people today. We have not had a land line in probably 10 years at least. Plus we have monitored security at our shop and as you said, family has to have access at all times in my books.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

RBlakeney said:


> this is really fucking stupid. anyone who agrees that amber alerts for a missing child is not worth your minor inconvenience, is equally as fucking stupid.


Fuck. I hate being forced into agreeing with people on the internet. 

We've been dealing with the aftermath of child/youth trafficking and prostitution for the last few years. Daughter of close family friends got wrapped up in a ring, involving trusted adults managing things. Big league shit, and it's fucked.

Missing kids is never a good thing. Too often it's very fucking bad. Sometimes it's even worse.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

I think the best solution would be the ability to opt out of the alert. Now how complicated would that be to put that in the system? I'm not sure but what I'm sure about is that it can be done. There has been a whole lot of discussion regarding this since the last alert and I would assume the discussion would continue the next time we get one again. Bottom line, as someone already said, first world problems....


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I think I'm for them but in the instances I've experienced so far I wonder at the timing and the useless information provided on the alert. They had knowledge of the child being seen on the bus the night before, they knew the child and "abductor's" name and had photos of both. I'd like to help but at 4:30 am telling me that a little boy and a woman are on a bus from Sudbury to Toronto does nothing but makes someone feel like their doing something important because political correctness hobbles their effectiveness.

If you really want help from the public you need to give out the information that we can use and when we can use it.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Chito said:


> I think the best solution would be the ability to opt out of the alert. Now how complicated would that be to put that in the system?


Not complicated at all... it's already in the systems in many other countries with AMBER alert systems. The Canadian cell phone companies all protested against the CRTC's stubborn and unusual determination to make this a mandatory no-opt-out system across the country.

It is *probably* not very complicated (I'm not an expert) to make temporary opt-outs available. I'd like to be able to set my phone for "no AMBER alerts between 10pm and 8am", during which period I am almost never out where I can help with an AMBER alert and am often sleeping. It's certainly do-able but I don't know how much the cell companies would balk at any additional software work they might have to do.

If that's a big deal, I could just flip it on and off myself as people already do in other countries. I want an opt-out option.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

3-year-old boy found safe in Toronto after Amber Alert issued in Sudbury, Ont. | CBC News


Found him.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

This is all so foreign to me. I have a landline, and that's it. My wife insists on her cell, but she tends to leave it downstairs charging overnight, so if there are any alerts of whatever nature, the fridge knows about them, but not me. I can only know about them by radio or TV.

As for resources that could more productively be allocated. a significant share (indeed, the majority) of child-abductions are the outcome of bitter custody disputes. This suggests that reducing their incidence could be partly achieved by better and more plentiful family-court access, better-trained judges, and legal advice that is better-trained in how to resolve relationship dissolution more amicably, rather than adversarially. I'd like to see more lawyer ads on TV with former spouses/partners saying how law-office X helped them to get on with their lives happily, and how happy and well-adjusted their kids are because of how it was resolved, instead of ads talking about settlement-size as if the only measure of justice and right was in dollars. I realize some folks are pig-headed enough to ignore useful advice, and the vengeance motive can be VERY strong for some, but enough people can be persuaded to heed good advice and think ahead, that beneficial results _can_ be achieved. There's always a small ***** in the psychological armour that can be leveraged.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

1SweetRide said:


> No. I’m on call 24/7.


So you should be used to annoying phone calls then.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Let me opt out of the alerts for far away cities for disgruntled parents not bringing their kid back to the ex on time. There’s nothing I can do about that when I’m in bed in Ottawa. Save those alerts for where I live.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Chitmo said:


> So you should be used to annoying phone calls then.


It’s usually for something very critical like an RCMP system being down.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

My phone has a setting for Alerts. It's broken down into 3 categories, "Amber Alert", Extreme Threat", and "Severe Threat". I'm not sure if setting all of these to "off" would bypass Ontario's system. I did have "Amber Alert" turned off but still received the warning when I turned the phone on this morning. Over and above that there is an "Alert Preferences" setting which allows the cancellation of vibration and also allows reminders to be turned off.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Shutting off cell phones is not an option for many people today. We have not had a land line in probably 10 years at least. Plus we have monitored security at our shop and as you said, family has to have access at all times in my books.


A lot of people can sleep with their phone off or in airplane mode. If you are not on call, you dont need your phone on. It's that simple. Then you wont get these amber alerts that has everyone so riled up. If you feel you need your phone on, you can probably survive the very low number of times amber alerts will wake you up. Until you can opt out, those are your options. You do in fact have a choice.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

I don't think an opt-out is a good idea. This is like vaccinations - in order for them to work, everyone needs to participate. You can't achieve Herd Immunity with huge chunks of the population opting-out of immunization and we end up with where we are today - outbreaks of long-contained illness in pockets where people refuse to be vaccinated.

Similarly, in order for the Amber Alert system to work, the word needs to get out to as many people as possible so that information can be compiled. These situations are massively time-sensitive and need to be addressed ASAP before they turn ugly, as often they do. If a huge chunk of the populace opts-out, you're risking dramatically reducing the efficacy of the alert, at which point why even bother? 

I hope they never introduce an opt-out option on the alerts, they're too important. Complaining about being woken up by a system trying to save children's lives is so silly and selfish.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

davetcan said:


> My phone has a setting for Alerts. It's broken down into 3 categories, "Amber Alert", Extreme Threat", and "Severe Threat". I'm not sure if setting all of these to "off" would bypass Ontario's system. I did have "Amber Alert" turned off but still received the warning when I turned the phone on this morning. Over and above that there is an "Alert Preferences" setting which allows the cancellation of vibration and also allows reminders to be turned off.


Hmm, what carrier are you with?

Soon after being awakened for the second time by the second AMBER alert this morning, I searched for information about disabling them. I found iPhone advice online that matches your description: Settings, Notifications, scroll to the bottom, Government Alerts.

Government Alerts doesn't appear on my iPhone. I then looked back at the sites giving that advice; all in the U.S.


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## Guest (May 14, 2019)

1SweetRide said:


> Wow, so much anger. I'm not complaining about amber alerts, my point is about the location of the alert being nowhere near me. Jeez guys, maybe it's time for me to take a break from this forum.


I'm with you, fuck the alerts.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

boyscout said:


> Hmm, what carrier are you with?
> 
> Soon after being awakened for the second time by the second AMBER alert this morning, I searched for information about disabling them. I found iPhone advice online that matches your description: Settings, Notifications, scroll to the bottom, Government Alerts.
> 
> Government Alerts doesn't appear on my iPhone. I then looked back at the sites giving that advice; all in the U.S.


Good old Rogers on a Moto G5. Android.

Found mine under sound settings > other sounds > emergency alerts.

As I said earlier, it's there and I can turn it off, not sure if it will stop the alerts though.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

TB2019 said:


> Wow, I’m surprised that anyone would complain about an amber alert.


You should see my town's Q&A. Every time one happens people post threads on there complaining. I don't agree with people being hounded about it RE a post earlier in the thread, but you also don't need to complain about it in a local Facebook group. 

As far as I know these have been really successful, so I'll deal with it.

Of note, I am not sure why but my phone vibrates but doesn't sound the chime. So there must be a way on some phones to disable it if you really wanted to.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Have to say I'm very disappointed with this community and how quick people were to tell me to go fuck myself. Even from those I've met in person. I'm going to take a break for a while. There's no point having any sort of a rational discussion now and I've seen how quickly some of you pounce like starved tigers on fresh meat. Bye


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

One of the complaints in this thread was that the alert broadcast range is too great and inconveniences people who aren't likely to be involved, and yet the alert that was issued this morning originated in Sudbury, while the child was found in Toronto, a 5 hour drive away, so had the alert been restricted to Sudbury and it's immediate surrounding areas, there's a good chance this kid wouldn't have been found for a while.

Turns out this case seems to be fairly innocuous, but that doesn't change the fact that the system has so far proven effective in being able to quickly disseminate information about the missing children.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> Have to say I'm very disappointed with this community and how quick people were to tell me to go fuck myself. Even from those I've met in person. I'm going to take a break for a while. There's no point having any sort of a rational discussion now and I've seen how quickly some of you pounce like starved tigers on fresh meat. Bye


I don't have kids, but I try to have empathy for people who do when it comes to this issue. I don't think anyone need to be insulting anyone (in any thread), but I can definitely see why some people take the issue seriously. The system seems to be effective from all articles I have read, and I am happy if it helps someone in need.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Question:

What does everyone who wakes up to these alerts do in thunder storms? 

Honest question. Serious answers welcome.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

As the news slowly trickles in apparently the child lives with a guardian (grandmother) who drove the child and mother to a shopping mall around noon. They're seen hopping the bus at 3 am. to T.O. and the child's mother call the police when she hears of the Amber Alert the next morning. What the hell are these people thinking? Gawd save the child.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Budda said:


> Question:
> 
> What does everyone who wakes up to these alerts do in thunder storms?
> 
> Honest question. Serious answers welcome.


First I go on Facebook and complain, then I come on here and complain.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

1SweetRide said:


> It’s usually for something very critical like an RCMP system being down.


You mean like the amber alert system? Kinda ironic!


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

1SweetRide said:


> Have to say I'm very disappointed with this community and how quick people were to tell me to go fuck myself. Even from those I've met in person. I'm going to take a break for a while. There's no point having any sort of a rational discussion now and I've seen how quickly some of you pounce like starved tigers on fresh meat. Bye


Very sorry to see you go. Herd mentality for sure, and about as well-informed as an average herd.

Even after @traynor_garnet posted one of a few factual reports that have questioned the efficacy of AMBER alerts, and before anything more than a couple of bits of anecdotal "evidence" exists to prove that the recent overreaching use of our cell phones has significantly improved the limited efficacy of AMBER alerts, the herd piles on.

Completely-unfounded speculative statements like, "_in order for them to work, *everyone* needs to participate_" and "_there's a *good chance* this kid wouldn't have been found for a while_", and arrogant assumptions like, "_If you are not on call, you dont need your phone on_" show such ignorance about the facts of AMBER alerts, as well as disregard for people's inherent right to do what they want unless it's illegal and to be left alone to do that.

Especially when it's clear that officials have won (not always with facts) sufficient support for this system from a lot of people that they don't have to bully the rest into taking it. FFS, if someone doesn't want the alerts or doesn't want them at certain times, then they're not likely to DO anything with them when they're forced to receive them, are they? We should have an opt-out, even if it's limited to the hours when most of us are abed and certainly not going to do anything with the alert.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Budda said:


> Question: What does everyone who wakes up to these alerts do in thunder storms?
> Honest question. Serious answers welcome.


I sleep through them. When I'm getting the few hours of sleep I get per night I sleep through just about anything.

But not these alerts.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> Have to say I'm very disappointed with this community and how quick people were to tell me to go fuck myself. Even from those I've met in person. I'm going to take a break for a while. There's no point having any sort of a rational discussion now and I've seen how quickly some of you pounce like starved tigers on fresh meat. Bye


Please return soon!


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

According to the web site below, the criteria for issuing an AMBER alert is *supposed* to include...

*A belief that the child is in grave danger;*

As noted in the report linked by @traynor_garnet and mentioned by others in this thread, that has only rarely been the case when alerts have been issued. In both Canada and the U.S. nearly all alerts have involved someone who knew the abducted child and was not only unlikely to harm him/her, but didn't.

AMBER Alert


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## Guest (May 14, 2019)

I have Amberger's Syndrome.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

GuitarsCanada said:


> It's certainly an interesting debate. Sure you want to help if you can, anyone would. But I can tell you that we have gotten 3 since it's debut and all 3 were called into police by disgruntled parents involved in a domestic dispute. All 3 kids were found safely with the other parent, including this one today.


 Yep if they keep throwing the alert for domestic battles people will get numb to the alerts, and not pay attention.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Distortion said:


> Yep if they keep throwing the alert for domestic battles people will get numb to the alerts, and not pay attention.


That's my primary concern - It'll become like using 911 anytime you want to call the police for any reason. 911 was originally for emergencies only and they reacted as such. In this last alert the grandmother called because her daughter took off with her daughter. I mean, custody is custody and laws are laws but you can't hardly get a cop out to a car crash these days. Let's fine tune the system to keep it purposeful and effective.

Personally I don't care if it goes off in the middle of the night (other than, just like thunder storms, my Brittany claws at my head for the next hour) but it needs to be effective and be seen as such - or it will become just another car alarm going off in the distance.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Distortion said:


> Yep if they keep throwing the alert for domestic battles people will get numb to the alerts, and not pay attention.


The fact of the matter is in the majority of cases a parent is responsible for kidnapping and I’m not sure if you follow the new much.... but the crazy ones occasionally kill their own children. So depending on the information the police have they have to act in the best interest of he child, which sometimes involves an amber alert.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

how about ... increasing outward rings ( based on avg travel time/ distances) as the time increases .... with automatic shutdown when the person is located.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

How about just getting rid of the extremely annoying alert tone and keeping everything else?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Chitmo said:


> The fact of the matter is in the majority of cases a parent is responsible for kidnapping and I’m not sure if you follow the new much.... but the crazy ones occasionally kill their own children. So depending on the information the police have they have to act in the best interest of he child, which sometimes involves an amber alert.


The "crazy ones" are not the problem. It's the ones bent on "showing that bitch" that are more likely to commit infanticide as revenge. Although, yes, there ARE the _very_ rare instances in which a psychotic or deeply-depressed parent will do something lethal to "save" the kids from some presumed worse fate (e.g., living without the parent who is about to kill themselves along with the kids). But those are generally not abductions, either. It takes a certain clearness of thought to take children _away_ from somewhere, whether in a car or bus, and most especially on an airplane. The instances where a parent runs away with one or more children to protect them from a spouse they view as a physical danger vastly outnumber the instances where someone has a break with reality and murders a kid. Of course, the ones who murder their child get reported more sensationalistically, disgust us more (with good reason), and tend to stick in memory, relative to the runaway parents.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

boyscout said:


> Very sorry to see you go. Herd mentality for sure, and about as well-informed as an average herd.
> 
> Even after @traynor_garnet posted one of a few factual reports that have questioned the efficacy of AMBER alerts, and before anything more than a couple of bits of anecdotal "evidence" exists to prove that the recent overreaching use of our cell phones has significantly improved the limited efficacy of AMBER alerts, the herd piles on.
> 
> ...


Police are on-record as stating that leads they have received are a direct result of the alerts. So...

I don't think my statement was speculative at all. If you allow people who withdraw from participating - and to be clear, participation is receiving a message to your phone with no onus on you to actually do anything about it if you don't like - it reduces the efficacy of crowd-sourcing aid. This seems completely founded in logic to me. 100% is better than anything that isn't 100%.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> Police are on-record as stating that leads they have received are a direct result of the alerts. So...
> 
> I don't think my statement was speculative at all. If you allow people who withdraw from participating - and to be clear, participation is receiving a message to your phone with no onus on you to actually do anything about it if you don't like - it reduces the efficacy of crowd-sourcing aid. This seems completely founded in logic to me. 100% is better than anything that isn't 100%.


I didn't want to comment on the post you quoted because I didn't want t go source tracking. But I know I have read several articles, not just from Canada but from other countries, saying the system has successful.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

hollowbody said:


> Police are on-record as stating that leads they have received are a direct result of the alerts. So...
> 
> I don't think my statement was speculative at all. If you allow people who withdraw from participating - and to be clear, participation is receiving a message to your phone with no onus on you to actually do anything about it if you don't like - it reduces the efficacy of crowd-sourcing aid. This seems completely founded in logic to me. 100% is better than anything that isn't 100%.


Police and other officials are in full-spin defense against boiling-over outrage about their use of the system last night. You probably did see them "_on record as stating that leads they have received are a direct result of the alerts."_ You may have also noticed them in all statements I've seen being *extremely* vague about "a woman" and "a boy" and the fact they'd "been located". They want you to believe that the two AMBER alerts last night were essential to the happy outcome.

Bull!!

The CBC (for a change) has treated this as a news story and not a worthy government social exercise, and it reports in its lede on the story that:

*A call to a tip line from a woman being sought in an Amber Alert helped in locating her and her three-year-old son safe in Toronto early Tuesday, say Sudbury, Ont., police, who issued the alert.*

Mother involved in Sudbury Amber Alert called tip line about son found in Toronto, police say | CBC News

So the story, without whitewashing by officials protecting their hides after waking millions needlessly, is that the *mother* took her *son* from his *grandmother's* house and took him *to her own home *in Toronto*.* When she learned that an alert was out for her *she called to tell police where she was *and allowed them to connect with her son.

In addition to waking millions of people twice in circumstances that almost certainly didn't require it, the other remarkable thing about this story was that the *mother had to call it in herself*!! If there really was a serious risk of harm to the boy - *the alert should not be issued without one* - then why weren't police tracking the bus they knew about, and/or waiting for the mother at the bus terminal, and/or waiting at her address? Even if they weren't positive it was the mother, wouldn't those be obvious things to do?

It sure looks as if they fired off their alarming "tweets" and then did not much else as the mother calmly arrived in Toronto on the bus and took her son home without knowing about the excitement she'd caused.

Unless there's something we're not being told - and I hope everyone will be carefully testing further statements for routine burnishment and even fabrication by police - they don't have a leg to stand on IMO. Boondoggle.

As an aside, I believe this is the third time I've received an alert originated by Sudbury police, all ending in similarly non-worrying circumstances without any harm to the child involved. Maybe someone needs to go up there and strongly counsel that force about appropriate use of this extremely-disruptive technology.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Write sudbury's mayor?


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

The hostility on this forum at times is incredible.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Maybe if we'd had this Amber alert system back in 2009, maybe, just maybe Tori would still be alive and none of us would have ever heard of her. We have to remember that this amber alert thing could prevent the next Tori Stafford.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> Wow, so much anger. I'm not complaining about amber alerts, my point is about the location of the alert being nowhere near me. Jeez guys, maybe it's time for me to take a break from this forum.



Good thing your not a cop. I guess if they knew what area to focus the alerts on they'd know where the kid is and just go get her.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Distortion said:


> Yep if they keep throwing the alert for domestic battles people will get numb to the alerts, and not pay attention.


Its for missing kids. Kids that get taken by strangers or from family members. Some family members have done awful things to their kids in the past. From what I see hear there is a lot of narcissistic people that couldn't give 2 shits about anyone but them selves.One of them seems to have left and as far as I'm concerned isn't some one you'd want as part of your community any way. Virtual or other wise. Its all about caring for people. My heart breaks every time I read an article about how a child was murdered. Its not much to ask for the odd inconvenience. As it was stated if you don't want your sleep to be disturbed don't keep your cell in your bedroom. But you say you have it there in case one of your own family members has a crisis. Well that gets back to the narcissistic "Fuck my neighbor I only care about my own" mentality.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> Maybe if we'd had this Amber alert system back in 2009, maybe, just maybe Tori would still be alive and none of us would have ever heard of her. We have to remember that this amber alert thing could prevent the next Tori Stafford.


You might remember that Tori was probably murdered before she was reported missing, so no, but I take your point.

I've not been arguing that the system not be used at all, just that (a) such a hugely-disruptive system be used with more careful circumspection by police and (b) that citizens be given the OPTION to not receive the alarms when they're at home in bed unable to do anything about them.

The system will be diminished if it is used incautiously, as it may have been last night.

Those here who have leapt to the defense of the system should continue to receive the alerts as they wish.


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## Guest (May 15, 2019)

torndownunit said:


> The hostility on this forum at times is incredible.


I'll fight ya!


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

boyscout said:


> You might remember that Tori was probably murdered before she was reported missing, so no, but I take your point.
> 
> I've not been arguing that the system not be used at all, just that (a) such a hugely-disruptive system be used with more careful circumspection by police and (b) that citizens be given the OPTION to not receive the alarms when they're at home in bed unable to do anything about them.
> 
> ...


Umm, I'm failing to find hostility in these posts ......................................


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> One of them seems to have left and as far as I'm concerned isn't some one you'd want as part of your community any way. Virtual or other wise. Its all about caring for people.


Sounds like you choose who YOU care about! Not a classy thing to say, Mr. Compassion.



guitarman2 said:


> My heart breaks every time I read an article about how a child was murdered. Its not much to ask for the odd inconvenience. As it was stated if you don't want your sleep to be disturbed don't keep your cell in your bedroom. But you say you have it there in case one of your own family members has a crisis. Well that gets back to the narcissistic "Fuck my neighbor I only care about my own" mentality.


It was me who wrote about having my phone bedside in case family needed me, not Distortion, and your charge in your last sentence is itself uncaring, thoughtless, and wrong.

I keep my phone by the bed in case someone in my family (which is scattered around the globe) has a crisis. In that circumstance then of course I can get up and maybe do things to help; I know specific details that I can act upon about who, what, where.

An AMBER alert in the middle of the night with vague details about a stranger who could be anyone in 20% of the province's population, and covering geography of about half the length of the province or even just the GTA, is something I can't do a damned thing about. Not a damned thing! It may feel good for you to accuse me of not caring, but you're wrong. There's just not a damned thing I can do! Get up and drive around hoping to spot the vaguely-described person? Or even a specifically-provided license plate somewhere on Ontario roads? Right.

So there should be a way for me to tell the system, "I can't help at all right now". Not "I don't care", "I can't help right now."


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> Umm, I'm failing to find hostility in these posts ......................................


it’s more of complaining not hostility. some people will find reason to complain about most anything.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

hollowbody said:


> I don't think an opt-out is a good idea. This is like vaccinations - in order for them to work, everyone needs to participate. You can't achieve Herd Immunity with huge chunks of the population opting-out of immunization and we end up with where we are today - outbreaks of long-contained illness in pockets where people refuse to be vaccinated.





hollowbody said:


> If you allow people who withdraw from participating - and to be clear, participation is receiving a message to your phone with no onus on you to actually do anything about it if you don't like - it reduces the efficacy of crowd-sourcing aid. This seems completely founded in logic to me. 100% is better than anything that isn't 100%.


It's not 100% and people do, in a sense, have the ability to opt out. We have a land-line, and a cel that is turned on only for emergency calling out. Seems to me a fine line between non-available and opting-out. In neither case do I think it is remotely akin to the anti-vax scenario.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

While I don’t really enjoy being woken up at a ridiculous hour with an alarm tone that, quite frankly, startled me out of sleep, I do appreciate the reasons behind the alerts. Is the second alert an hour and a half later with absolutely no new information absolutely necessary though? Perhaps any updates can be issued without an ear bleed inducing alarm?

That being said, perhaps they could come up with an alert tone that gets your attention WITHOUT scaring the shit out of you while you’re sleeping, or sitting quietly relaxing, or driving?


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Chitmo said:


> Fuck, you don’t have much to do or much to complain about if you’re bitching about being notified for a missing child. Get a hobby!





RBlakeney said:


> this is really fucking stupid. anyone who agrees that amber alerts for a missing child is not worth your minor inconvenience, is equally as fucking stupid.





cboutilier said:


> Fuck. I hate being forced into agreeing with people on the internet.





guitarman2 said:


> One of them seems to have left and as far as I'm concerned isn't some one you'd want as part of your community any way. Virtual or other wise. Its all about caring for people.





guitarman2 said:


> But you say you have it there in case one of your own family members has a crisis. Well that gets back to the narcissistic "Fuck my neighbor I only care about my own" mentality.





torndownunit said:


> The hostility on this forum at times is incredible.


Yeah, it is.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

boyscout said:


> Yeah, it is.


Come on, don't make it like people on both side of the issue aren't being rude.

You guys can choose to get upset over whatever you want, it's not my business. I was participating for discussions sake, but everyone being angry about this puts it out of my territory. I am just not going to get that upset over a system that has some kinks, but is legitimately meant to try to help people. Especially not to the point of insulting anyone. Of all the things to get this pissed off about in this world, it's a bit ridiculous.

Also, several people in the thread have mentioned they have blocked the audio alert on their phones . I somehow managed to do it without even realizing I did. So if you are that upset about it, look into your phone settings.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Do people think if it wasnt as startling that it would be as effective?

If you can easily ignore it, how is it going to help? It would be the same as missing an emergency call because your phone was on vibrate and you werent paying attention IMO.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

the AMBER concept is correct ... implementation methods are suspect. Time for a re-think / reboot.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Somebody tell me why they're not pushing it through the landlines?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Just a question. Is this an app that is installed on your phone or that you install on your phone or is it something else? As far as I know there is nothing on my phone, which is new. There have been amber alerts around here and the phone never has gone off and it is on 24/7/365.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> Just a question. Is this an app that is installed on your phone or that you install on your phone or is it something else? As far as I know there is nothing on my phone, which is new. There have been amber alerts around here and the phone never has gone off and it is on 24/7/365.


not an app. it’s through the cellular data provider


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Strange that Rogers doesn't provide it, or do they only provide it if you are a contract customer. I bought the phone outright and pay by the month. Unlimited Canadian calls and text, no data. I take it you probably have no choice in the matter tho I don't recall being asked when I got the phone and signed up.


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## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

Complaining about an Amber alert seems pretty selfish to me. There was one a few weeks back involving, as usual, a distraught parent taking their child.

I was on a highway drive in the path the parent was supposed to have taken and watched closely for the subject vehicle during my drive.

Consider the power and potential impact of that many people watching and looking.

It was the amber alert that led directly to the safe rescue in that case.

What if it was my kid or a friend’s kid? What if it was any kid at all?

Being woken up seems like a small price to pay if it saves one single kid.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Electraglide said:


> Strange that Rogers doesn't provide it, or do they only provide it if you are a contract customer. I bought the phone outright and pay by the month. Unlimited Canadian calls and text, no data. I take it you probably have no choice in the matter tho I don't recall being asked when I got the phone and signed up.


The system is mandated. All providers must send the alerts. Not all cell phones have the capability of receiving them though. There is no way to disable the system other than shutting your phone off. See here for more details. Alert Ready Emergency Alert System - Pelmorex Corp. - Alert Ready Emergency Alert System


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

allthumbs56 said:


> That's my primary concern - It'll become like using 911 anytime you want to call the police for any reason. 911 was originally for emergencies only and they reacted as such. In this last alert *the grandmother called because her daughter took off with her daughter*. I mean, custody is custody and laws are laws but you can't hardly get a cop out to a car crash these days. Let's fine tune the system to keep it purposeful and effective.
> 
> Personally I don't care if it goes off in the middle of the night (other than, just like thunder storms, my Brittany claws at my head for the next hour) but it needs to be effective and be seen as such - or it will become just another car alarm going off in the distance.


This is exactly the concern I have with this system. Police have always been used as pawns in domestic disputes. Courts as well. I even experienced it first hand back in the 90's during my divorce and custody proceedings. I had to listen to how I was harassing, following, threatening my ex and my own kids. My lawyer told me to shut up and just take it. That's how often the judges and lawyers listen to it. In one ear and out the other. It did however get automatic custody for my ex wife and subsidized housing within a few weeks. That process taught me a lot about our legal systems. It's much worse today. 

The problem with the Amber Alerts debate is that most people skip over the intent of the complaint. I don't believe anyone here or 99.8% of the population would ever say they don't care about a child's welfare. That's not what they or I have a problem with. The second anyone complains the first response is "what if it was your child" or "you don't care". I don't buy that at all. It is abundantly clear that hundreds of thousands of people are receiving these alerts and there is not a damn thing they can do about it based on the geography. I am nowhere near the areas of the 3 I received based on the information received via the alert. Unfortunately I don't think there is a way (that I am aware of) to further localize the alerts. If I got one that said Thorold or St Catharines I would hit the streets myself. I am not however driving 2 hours to Toronto. 

I am sure if it was related to the weather and the millions of bad and false weather reports we receive that this thread would be very different. It boils down to how much control the government has over you. Frankly I am getting tired of hearing JT continuously saying "this is what the Canadian people want" in response to just about anything he is asked. Well I have not been consulted once on anything. Everyone should be concerned about government intrusion and things that are constantly being touted as "it's good for the nation or good for the people". Look what they have done to international travel since 9/11. It's obscene the control and power that they have been given not to mention that they know everything you do just about everywhere you go or anything you buy. The algorithms that google uses today is scary. I can swear the thing reads my mind. I even think about a product and it pops up on my screen somewhere. Freedom is just a concept now.


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## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

GuitarsCanada said:


> This is exactly the concern I have with this system. Police have always been used as pawns in domestic disputes. Courts as well. I even experienced it first hand back in the 90's during my divorce and custody proceedings. I had to listen to how I was harassing, following, threatening my ex and my own kids. My lawyer told me to shut up and just take it. That's how often the judges and lawyers listen to it. In one ear and out the other. It did however get automatic custody for my ex wife and subsidized housing within a few weeks. That process taught me a lot about our legal systems. It's much worse today.
> 
> The problem with the Amber Alerts debate is that most people skip over the intent of the complaint. I don't believe anyone here or 99.8% of the population would ever say they don't care about a child's welfare. That's not what they or I have a problem with. The second anyone complains the first response is "what if it was your child" or "you don't care". I don't buy that at all. It is abundantly clear that hundreds of thousands of people are receiving these alerts and there is not a damn thing they can do about it based on the geography. I am nowhere near the areas of the 3 I received based on the information received via the alert. Unfortunately I don't think there is a way (that I am aware of) to further localize the alerts. If I got one that said Thorold or St Catharines I would hit the streets myself. I am not however driving 2 hours to Toronto.
> 
> I am sure if it was related to the weather and the millions of bad and false weather reports we receive that this thread would be very different. It boils down to how much control the government has over you. Frankly I am getting tired of hearing JT continuously saying "this is what the Canadian people want" in response to just about anything he is asked. Well I have not been consulted once on anything. Everyone should be concerned about government intrusion and things that are constantly being touted as "it's good for the nation or good for the people". Look what they have done to international travel since 9/11. It's obscene the control and power that they have been given not to mention that they know everything you do just about everywhere you go or anything you buy. The algorithms that google uses today is scary. I can swear the thing reads my mind. I even think about a product and it pops up on my screen somewhere. Freedom is just a concept now.


A few hours drive is nothing. I’m fine receiving alerts from 7 or 8 hours drive distance.

It’s worth any inconvenience I may suffer.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

TB2019 said:


> A few hours drive is nothing. I’m fine receiving alerts from 7 or 8 hours drive distance.
> 
> It’s worth any inconvenience I may suffer.


So basically you are saying that you enjoy the service just for the sake of reading about a "possible" abduction at 4 am that you personally can do absolutely nothing about? You sir are exactly the type of person the government loves.


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## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

GuitarsCanada said:


> So basically you are saying that you enjoy the service just for the sake of reading about a "possible" abduction at 4 am that you personally can do absolutely nothing about? You sir are exactly the type of person the government loves.


No, I’m saying that I’m not so self important that I can’t withstand a little bump in the night in the hope that a child can be saved.

“Enjoy the service” is a bizarre choice of words in this context.

Why can I do absolutely nothing about it?

What if I’m driving toward the incident in a couple of hours?


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

TB2019 said:


> Complaining about an Amber alert seems pretty selfish to me. There was one a few weeks back involving, as usual, a distraught parent taking their child.
> 
> I was on a highway drive in the path the parent was supposed to have taken and watched closely for the subject vehicle during my drive.
> 
> ...


Yes, the old "If it saves one life" argument.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

TB2019 said:


> No, I’m saying that I’m not so self important that I can’t withstand a little bump in the night in the hope that a child can be saved.
> 
> “Enjoy the service” is a bizarre choice of words in this context.
> 
> ...


Your the one that said you would be fine receiving alerts from 7-8 hours driving distance not me. If you meant that, it's not only foolish it's absurd. Stop pulling the child card as well. How many people in this country are abducted, raped, killed, kidnapped. Age in an abduction should not be used to pull heart strings. A human being is a human being. What about the case of the kidnapped Asian student in Toronto a while back. Massive news coverage. Is his life any less important? When the government gets around to sending out alerts for all abductions and kidnapping and your phone is going off 4 times a day will you feel the same? Like I said, rights and freedoms, rights and freedoms. That's the beauty of freedom. If you choose to get the alerts that's your choice and your welcome to it. The rest have been given no choice. This is the point.


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## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Your the one that said you would be fine receiving alerts from 7-8 hours driving distance not me. If you meant that, it's not only foolish it's absurd. Stop pulling the child card as well. How many people in this country are abducted, raped, killed, kidnapped. Age in an abduction should not be used to pull heart strings. A human being is a human being. What about the case of the kidnapped Asian student in Toronto a while back. Massive news coverage. Is his life any less important? When the government gets around to sending out alerts for all abductions and kidnapping and your phone is going off 4 times a day will you feel the same? Like I said, rights and freedoms, rights and freedoms. That's the beauty of freedom. If you choose to get the alerts that's your choice and your welcome to it. The rest have been given no choice. This is the point.


LOL, ok be pissed about people trying to help rescue children.

I’m ok with it.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Electraglide said:


> Just a question. Is this an app that is installed on your phone or that you install on your phone or is it something else? As far as I know there is nothing on my phone, which is new. There have been amber alerts around here and the phone never has gone off and it is on 24/7/365.


Scott already answered this - no app, mandatory, no way to turn off - but another detail is that for some reason the system works only over "LTE", the current state-of-the-art communication protocol for mobile phones.

Older phones that don't support LTE don't get the alerts. Nor do newer phones in areas where there is no (or weak) LTE service so phones automatically fall back to older-style "3G" communications protocol, or where their owners have set their phones to use 3G only.

Your phone may tell you, in one of its upper corners, whether it's connected via LTE or 3G. (You may have to turn off WiFi temporarily to see this indicator.) If it's in LTE mode and you're not getting alerts then you *obviously* just don't care enough about those poor kids. 

A new higher-speed protocol - 5G - and phones capable of it will be available before the end of the year. I'd guess that the alerts will work on those too.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

TB2019 said:


> LOL, ok be pissed about people trying to help rescue children.
> 
> I’m ok with it.


Let me give you a few scenarios that may help you to understand where I am coming from. First though let me be clear that in this country we used to have rights and freedoms. As far as I am aware being an uncaring asshole is not (yet) against the law. Like I said, I would be more than happy to help in the area in which I live. But there are people out there that just don't care and in this country they have the right to do just that, or at least they did. You don't have to like it but you should respect it. The mob should not be allowed to force anyone to do something they don't want to. 

You have a senior citizen living alone that does not drive or may be bed-ridden. The family got them a cell phone so they could get a hold of someone in an emergency. The phone goes off at 3 am and almost gives them a heart attack. Does this person need this thing? Are they going to be of any help? Should that person in that particular situation be allowed or able to shut that system off? There are many, many circumstances in which that service is of absolutely no value to them or anyone else. These decisions should be left up to the individual or the family. Not everyone wants to be a hero or even help at all. We may not agree with that, but the choice should remain with the individual. It's just like every app you download, they all want to send you push notifications, you either say yes or no. This should be no different. 

My personal thoughts are mine, yours are yours. We should each be allowed to express them. That's called freedom. I buy and pay for a cellphone for the uses I intend. The government should not tell me how I can use my cellphone. That's the point, got nothing to do with children or anything else. It's bad enough that they track everything I do on it and now have the authority to go through it when I go on vacation. If I want to have naked pictures of my wife on my phone that's my fucking business and not the governments.

Does that help at all?


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Let me give you a few scenarios that may help you to understand where I am coming from. ... The government should not tell me how I can use my cellphone.


As an administrator here, is it not possible for you to add buttons for "10 likes", "50 likes", "10 million likes", etc.?

Ten million likes.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

boyscout said:


> Scott already answered this - no app, mandatory, no way to turn off - but another detail is that for some reason the system works only over "LTE", the current state-of-the-art communication protocol for mobile phones.
> 
> Older phones that don't support LTE don't get the alerts. Nor do newer phones in areas where there is no (or weak) LTE service so phones automatically fall back to older-style "3G" communications protocol, or where their owners have set their phones to use 3G only.
> 
> ...


That explains it. My phone is 3g.


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Let me give you a few scenarios that may help you to understand where I am coming from. First though let me be clear that in this country we used to have rights and freedoms. As far as I am aware being an uncaring asshole is not (yet) against the law. Like I said, I would be more than happy to help in the area in which I live. But there are people out there that just don't care and in this country they have the right to do just that, or at least they did. You don't have to like it but you should respect it. The mob should not be allowed to force anyone to do something they don't want to.
> 
> You have a senior citizen living alone that does not drive or may be bed-ridden. The family got them a cell phone so they could get a hold of someone in an emergency. The phone goes off at 3 am and almost gives them a heart attack. Does this person need this thing? Are they going to be of any help? Should that person in that particular situation be allowed or able to shut that system off? There are many, many circumstances in which that service is of absolutely no value to them or anyone else. These decisions should be left up to the individual or the family. Not everyone wants to be a hero or even help at all. We may not agree with that, but the choice should remain with the individual. It's just like every app you download, they all want to send you push notifications, you either say yes or no. This should be no different.
> 
> ...


Personal rights and freedoms “trump” the needs of the many?

Perhaps you’d be happier south of the border.

That’s the sort of tripe I get from my American friends.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

boyscout said:


> As an administrator here, is it not possible for you to add buttons for "10 likes", "50 likes", "10 million likes", etc.?
> 
> Ten million likes.


with how deep you're pushing that nose you run a pretty serious risk of getting it stuck in there, careful now


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

TB2019 said:


> Personal rights and freedoms “trump” the needs of the many?


 put that into context .

do the masses have the right to trample my crops , because they should have somewhere nice to walk close to their homes?
should they have the right to cut down my trees for their bonfires / cookouts?

how about their rights to arbitrarily stop and search me because they think I look suspicious on my tractor?


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

TB2019 said:


> Personal rights and freedoms “trump” the needs of the many?
> 
> Perhaps you’d be happier south of the border.
> 
> That’s the sort of tripe I get from my American friends.


I have no idea what you are talking about, the really sad part is, neither do you.


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

TB2019 said:


> Personal rights and freedoms “trump” the needs of the many?


The "needs of the many" can be trumped up on any pretense (anything the elite managers decide) to overrule the rights and freedoms of individuals? OK Winston, thanks for your thoughts, if they are indeed your thoughts.

Nineteen Eighty-Four - Wikipedia

_*Nineteen Eighty-Four*, often published as *1984*, is a dystopian novel by English writer George Orwell published in June 1949, whose themes center on the risks of government overreach, totalitarianism and repressive regimentation of all persons and behaviors within society.
_
Have you thought this all the way through? C'mon over to the Politics Forum here and we can hash it out.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)




----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

TB2019 said:


> Personal rights and freedoms “trump” the needs of the many?
> 
> Perhaps you’d be happier south of the border.
> 
> That’s the sort of tripe I get from my American friends.


C'mon if you're gonna paraphrase then at least get it right  .........................

_In *The* Wrath of Khan (1982), Spock says, “Logic clearly dictates that *the needs of the many* outweigh *the needs*of *the* few.” Captain Kirk answers, “Or *the* one.” This sets up *a* pivotal scene near *the* end of *the* film (spoilers follow). ... Spock replies, “Or *the* one.”
_​


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

davetcan said:


> View attachment 254802
> View attachment 254804
> View attachment 254806


Interesting. When I click "Reply" on your message above with three pictures, my reply begins with a photo of the cover of a book on whittling wood!  (I've deleted it.)

Per your message, yeah. I have NOT argued against all use of the AMBER alert system - I support its judicious use - but those three guys you pictured would have LOVED to have a mandatory no-opt-out communications device in the pocket (or at the bedside) of every citizen.

EDIT: OK, now I'm seeing the whittling book in your post... it wasn't appearing in your post when I replied to it.


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

boyscout said:


> It was me who wrote about having my phone bedside in case family needed me, not Distortion, and your charge in your last sentence is itself uncaring, thoughtless, and wrong./QUOTE]


 I better go buy a lottery ticket. Thanx Boyscout.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

oldjoat said:


> put that into context .
> 
> do the masses have the right to trample my crops , because they should have somewhere nice to walk close to their homes?
> should they have the right to cut down my trees for their bonfires / cookouts?
> ...


Are you First Nations? Because we literally already do all of that to our own people and have been since we got here.

But yes, the cell phone wakeup call to try and save a child is worse.

(Im aware that probably puts this in the political forum).


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

boyscout said:


> Have you thought this all the way through? C'mon over to the Politics Forum here and we can hash it out.


@TB2019 careful, I think he's coming on to you


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Budda said:


> Are you First Nations


yup partly , so are the kids

So yes I have the "right" to complain , as well as any other land owner .

as others have said ... other countries give you the option of being IN or OUT on the messages.
Please give me the same courtesy.

I don't have to join the BLOCK neighbourhood watch if I don't want to. Doesn't make me a bad person.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

A


GuitarsCanada said:


> The system is mandated. All providers must send the alerts. Not all cell phones have the capability of receiving them though. There is no way to disable the system other than shutting your phone off. See here for more details. Alert Ready Emergency Alert System - Pelmorex Corp. - Alert Ready Emergency Alert System


.

A legitimate question for anyone, why am I not getting audio for the alerts? I have my phone in do not disturb mode at night, and I have every volume setting off. My phone is actually like this most of the time as I screen my calls and don't keep alerts on for apps. I did not get any audio alert, but I saw the visual alert when I was up to go to the washroom.

It's not a 3g vs lte issue or anything, I am in the middle on an area with full reception. Running a pixel 2 phone, current OS etc.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

torndownunit said:


> A
> .
> 
> A legitimate question for anyone, why am I not getting audio for the alerts? I have my phone in do not disturb mode at night, and I have every volume setting off. My phone is actually like this most of the time as I screen my calls and don't keep alerts on for apps. I did not get any audio alert, but I saw the visual alert when I was up to go to the washroom.
> ...


Probably because all your volumes are off.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> A
> .
> 
> A legitimate question for anyone, why am I not getting audio for the alerts? I have my phone in do not disturb mode at night, and I have every volume setting off. My phone is actually like this most of the time as I screen my calls and don't keep alerts on for apps. I did not get any audio alert, but I saw the visual alert when I was up to go to the washroom.
> ...


Dunno. I got the Full Monty on mine: Alert, message, voice. Several times.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

torndownunit said:


> A
> .
> 
> A legitimate question for anyone, why am I not getting audio for the alerts? I have my phone in do not disturb mode at night, and I have every volume setting off. My phone is actually like this most of the time as I screen my calls and don't keep alerts on for apps. I did not get any audio alert, but I saw the visual alert when I was up to go to the washroom.
> ...


It may be the volume being turned off. That would work but then you are not able to get any calls, which may work for some people but not all. But you already use do not disturb so that takes out any phone calls or text. The do not disturb is bypassed by this system.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

boyscout said:


> Interesting. When I click "Reply" on your message above with three pictures, my reply begins with a photo of the cover of a book on whittling wood!  (I've deleted it.)
> 
> Per your message, yeah. I have NOT argued against all use of the AMBER alert system - I support its judicious use - but those three guys you pictured would have LOVED to have a mandatory no-opt-out communications device in the pocket (or at the bedside) of every citizen.
> 
> EDIT: OK, now I'm seeing the whittling book in your post... it wasn't appearing in your post when I replied to it.


The implication was look what happens when personal freedoms are "whittled" away a bit at a time  Sorry to be vague.

The three gentlemen pictured did everything they did to satisfy "the needs of the many".

At least that was their excuse.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

YOU have the right to remain silent ... OR ELSE.


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about, the really sad part is, neither do you.


Wow, unlike you to resort to that level Scott.

But hey, you’re entitled to your opinions and judgements, how ever baseless.

I assure you I’m quite clear about what I say.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

TB2019 said:


> Wow, unlike you to resort to that level Scott.
> 
> But hey, you’re entitled to your opinions and judgements, how ever baseless.
> 
> I assure you I’m quite clear about what I say.


I've been known to call it the way I see it. I tried to explain to you at least 5 different ways why this should not be forced upon everyone that owns a cellphone. Apparently you disagree. Right now in Canada, you are able to disagree. Keep going the way we are going and someday you may not have that right any longer. If you think Amber Alerts are the end of this you are sadly mistaken. Until then all I can say before I exit this and get back to my weed forum is...........


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I've been known to call it the way I see it. I tried to explain to you at least 5 different ways why this should not be forced upon everyone that owns a cellphone. Apparently you disagree. Right now in Canada, you are able to disagree. Keep going the way we are going and someday you may not have that right any longer. If you think Amber Alerts are the end of this you are sadly mistaken. Until then all I can say before I exit this and get back to my weed forum is...........
> 
> View attachment 254824


It’s unwise to underestimate the intelligence of those you are communicating with.

There’s no need to explain your points.

They’re obvious. I just have different priorities and views.

Writing tomes to clarify simple things doesn’t make your points more meaningful.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

TB2019 said:


> It’s unwise to underestimate the intelligence of those you are communicating with.
> 
> There’s no need to explain your points.
> 
> ...


My apologies. Based on all your posts previous to the last two I just assumed that you wandered out of the Norris Wing. Again, my apologies. Why don't you go back and answer the other 10 or so responses you got from other people? I would be very interested in your responses.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

In the event that anyone would like to see some research .........................
After 20 years of AMBER Alerts… Are They Worth It?


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## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

GuitarsCanada said:


> My apologies. Based on all your posts previous to the last two I just assumed that you wandered out of the Norris Wing. Again, my apologies. Why don't you go back and answer the other 10 or so responses you got from other people? I would be very interested in your responses.


Not worth the time.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

allthumbs56 said:


> see some research


quick reading .... seems to be about what should be expected.
works just as well as Lisa Simpson's rock to keep tigers away.


----------



## Boogieman (Apr 6, 2009)

Electraglide said:


> Strange that Rogers doesn't provide it, or do they only provide it if you are a contract customer. I bought the phone outright and pay by the month. Unlimited Canadian calls and text, no data. I take it you probably have no choice in the matter tho I don't recall being asked when I got the phone and signed up.


My cell phone situation is similar: 4G LTE phone bought outright and pay services by the month. Unlimited Canadian calls and text, 500MB data. 

Most of the time, cell data on my phone is off. With only 500MB data, I need to save the available data for Google Map (thanks to the endless road closures and detours), when I cannot access wi-fi.

I have never received an Amber Alert on my phone. In fact, when they did those nation-wide "Armageddon" alert tests a while ago, I did not receive them on my phone (though my TV did), either. I suspect this is all because my cell phone's data is turned off 95% of the time.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

allthumbs56 said:


> In the event that anyone would like to see some research .........................
> After 20 years of AMBER Alerts… Are They Worth It?


Worth a second try I guess.

That was posted back in message #20 in this thread, and quoted by me and others in subsequent messages. Nevertheless some participants subsequently insisted without qualification that alerts like last night's "work, save kids' lives, and anyone who doesn't just accept it is selfish and stupid." It doesn't seem that they've read the facts; maybe they don't care to.

With adjustments and re-education of officials who are often mis-using the system AMBER Alert could be a more effective tool.


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

TB2019 said:


> Not worth the time.


Charming.



TB2019 said:


> It’s unwise to underestimate the intelligence of those you are communicating with.


It's even MORE unwise to overestimate your own. _The greatest friend of truth is Time, her greatest enemy is Prejudice, and her constant companion is Humility._ (Charles Caleb Colton)


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Wonder if the black boxes in vehicles keep track of these things going off in the event of a crash. Maybe they can make it so the vehicle pulls off to the side before the alert gets played. Not happy to find out people are having to contend with these things going off when they are supposedly in 'command' of a vehicle.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

the black boxes record everything about your car ... speed / braking/ locations / etc ... can and will be used against you in an accident.
and the info gets downloaded each time you visit the dealer for service.
some even update over wifi / bluetooth.

heck , they've even hacked into the computers through the tire pressure sensors on some cars.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Without anyone biting my head off, I am just curious if there is a generational thing related to disagreements on this in any way? No one I know gives the slightest shit about these AMBER alerts as far as them being a major issue to them. Or more to the point I guess, not where they get as angry as people in this thread. We make jokes about them, that's about it. Everyone younger than me is pretty much used to cell phones being as much of an intrusion as a benefit.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> Without anyone biting my head off, I am just curious if there is a generational thing related to disagreements on this in any way? No one I know gives the slightest shit about these AMBER alerts as far as them being a major issue to them. *Or more to the point I guess, not where they get as angry as people in this thread*. We make jokes about them, that's about it. Everyone younger than me is pretty much used to cell phones being as much of an intrusion as a benefit.


Not gonna bite your head off but that's twice you referred to anyone that had an issue as "getting angry". This has just not been the case - as clearly pointed out by boyscout (with quotations). It's those in favour of the alerts that are hostile.

Outside of this forum, on FB, the singer from one of my bands posted "I am all in agreement with Amber Alerts. Anybody who disagrees with me can F**k off." I have not bothered to respond to her.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> Not gonna bite your head off but that's twice you referred to anyone that had an issue as "getting angry". This has just not been the case - as clearly pointed out by boyscout (with quotations). It's those in favour of the alerts that are hostile.
> 
> Outside of this forum, on FB, the singer from one of my bands posted "I am all in agreement with Amber Alerts. Anybody who disagrees with me can F**k off." I have not bothered to respond to her.


Ya well, I am not angry about it. You are saying people in this thread on both sides of the issue aren't angry? Did I say it's only people who oppose the alerts getting angry? What thread are you reading? People are insulting each other in this thread over this, and it's not just the people from one 'side'. Come on. Are you saying there's no hostility going on in this thread? People are literally insulting others intelligence a few posts up.

I was bringing up a reasonable point about how different generations see intrusions on cell phones differently. Not saying it's good or bad, only pointing out why these alerts might not have the some effect on everyone.


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

boyscout said:


> It's even MORE unwise to overestimate your own. _The greatest friend of truth is Time, her greatest enemy is Prejudice, and her constant companion is Humility._ (Charles Caleb Colton)


LMAO

Charming.


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

GuitarsCanada said:


> So basically you are saying that you enjoy the service just for the sake of reading about a "possible" abduction at 4 am that you personally can do absolutely nothing about? You sir are exactly the type of person the government loves.


Sorry but I disagree. In 40 years of raising a family, I've not once got a call in the middle of the night of an emergency. You can turn off your phone knowing that if your family does need the 911 system, we'll all be here checking our phones to see if we can help in any way.


----------



## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

First World problems eh? ;-) j/k


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

I


Guitar101 said:


> Sorry but I disagree. In 40 years of raising a family, I've not once got a call in the middle of the night of an emergency. You can turn off your phone knowing that if your family does need the 911 system, we'll all be here checking our phones to see if we can help in any way.


I've gotten the emergency calls a few times, day and night over the years. The phone rings, some one says 'We need help', I'm there.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

boyscout said:


> Worth a second try I guess.
> 
> That was posted back in message #20 in this thread, and quoted by me and others in subsequent messages. Nevertheless some participants subsequently insisted without qualification that alerts like last night's "work, save kids' lives, and anyone who doesn't just accept it is selfish and stupid." It doesn't seem that they've read the facts; maybe they don't care to.
> 
> With adjustments and re-education of officials who are often mis-using the system AMBER Alert could be a more effective tool.


I know they don't all save lives, but, if one out of ten does find a kid and saves a life then they are worth it.


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Electraglide said:


> I
> 
> I've gotten the emergency calls a few times, day and night over the years. The phone rings, some one says 'We need help', I'm there.


I grew up in a house where we took those calls, and we always went to help. I wouldn't feel right living any other way.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

cboutilier said:


> I grew up in a house where we took those calls, and we always went to help. I wouldn't feel right living any other way.


Me too. The old boy was a clergyman...the phone rang anytime for any reason. A few times I was the caller.

A generation later, I took calls from the kids, kids' friends in need, drunk friends. It doesn't happen anymore as everyone is all grown up, but I suspect if there's a next generation it will restart.


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Electraglide said:


> I know they don't all save lives, but, if one out of ten does find a kid and saves a life then they are worth it.


From the research, done in the U.S. which has a higher incidence of violence generally that might be assumed to be a factor in this:

_... the number of children whose lives have been saved by AMBER Alert ranges from* zero to something very close to zero*._
_..._
_These cases *do not appear to typically involve apparently life-threatening abductors*. Rather, they are far more often deployed in familial/custodial disputes and other cases not suggestive of life-threatening peril to the abducted child(ren)._

The incident that sparked this thread is EXACTLY what the researcher has been seeing in the data. Based on published reports so far:

- The "abductor" was the boy's mother, a likelihood known to police before the alert was issued.

- No report has indicated ANY basis for belief that she might cause him harm, in which case *an AMBER alert should not have been issued*. The alerts should be issued only when there's a real risk of harm to the child.

- Millions - MILLIONS!! - of people were awakened twice by the alerts. Yet it seems that nobody - *especially including police in other jurisdictions* - did anything about those alerts until the *mother* learned about the alerts and called police to let them know that she and her son were safe at her home in Toronto.

- Since the mother seems to have acted on the AMBER alert, the alert will be counted by preening ass-covering officials as "another successful use of the AMBER Alert system". However as the researcher says:

_Normal police investigation resolves the overwhelming majority of child abduction cases._

Everything we know about this incident says that a little "normal police investigation" (finding the bus, waiting for the bus, waiting at the mother's home) could have resolved this one too, without *abusing* the AMBER alert system.


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Mooh said:


> Me too. The old boy was a clergyman...the phone rang anytime for any reason. A few times I was the caller.
> 
> A generation later, I took calls from the kids, kids' friends in need, drunk friends. It doesn't happen anymore as everyone is all grown up, but I suspect if there's a next generation it will restart.


My old man was a ******* welder


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Let me give you a few scenarios that may help you to understand where I am coming from. First though let me be clear that in this country we used to have rights and freedoms. As far as I am aware being an uncaring asshole is not (yet) against the law. Like I said, I would be more than happy to help in the area in which I live. But there are people out there that just don't care and in this country they have the right to do just that, or at least they did. You don't have to like it but you should respect it. The mob should not be allowed to force anyone to do something they don't want to.
> 
> You have a senior citizen living alone that does not drive or may be bed-ridden. The family got them a cell phone so they could get a hold of someone in an emergency. The phone goes off at 3 am and almost gives them a heart attack. Does this person need this thing? Are they going to be of any help? Should that person in that particular situation be allowed or able to shut that system off? There are many, many circumstances in which that service is of absolutely no value to them or anyone else. These decisions should be left up to the individual or the family. Not everyone wants to be a hero or even help at all. We may not agree with that, but the choice should remain with the individual. It's just like every app you download, they all want to send you push notifications, you either say yes or no. This should be no different.
> 
> ...



I'm going to copy and paste this elsewhere. Don't worry, I'll give you all the credit.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

TB2019 said:


> Personal rights and freedoms “trump” the needs of the many?


Oh for fuck sakes.

And how is the need of one person (the allegedly abducted, and I say allegedly because the child in the last alert was found safe and sound) the needs of the many?


----------



## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

Airplane mode at night. No disturbances.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

GuitarsCanada said:


> It may be the volume being turned off. That would work but then you are not able to get any calls, which may work for some people but not all. But you already use do not disturb so that takes out any phone calls or text. The do not disturb is bypassed by this system.



The system also overrides the volume being turned off.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> the black boxes record everything about your car ... speed / braking/ locations / etc ... can and will be used against you in an accident.
> and the info gets downloaded each time you visit the dealer for service.
> some even update over wifi / bluetooth.
> 
> heck , they've even hacked into the computers through the tire pressure sensors on some cars.



Who the hell goes to a dealership for service???


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

colchar said:


> Oh for fuck sakes.
> 
> And how is the need of one person (the allegedly abducted, and I say allegedly because the child in the last alert was found safe and sound) the needs of the many?


calm your tits, you're massively late to this thread and we've solved the problem without you. no need to act so outraged


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

colchar said:


> Who the hell goes to a dealership for service???


who doesn't?


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

colchar said:


> Who the hell goes to a dealership for service???


Geez. I do for service on my 2010 GMC pickup that I bought new. Is that wrong?


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Guitar101 said:


> Geez. I do for service on my 2010 GMC pickup that I bought new. Is that wrong?



Far more cost efficient to go elsewhere.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Find a place that services and repairs taxis. Dealerships focus on bringing the vehicle back to new sale condition. Cab drivers want the vehicle functional and safe enough to get back on the road ASAP. Your choice as to which you value more.


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## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

colchar said:


> Oh for fuck sakes.
> 
> And how is the need of one person (the allegedly abducted, and I say allegedly because the child in the last alert was found safe and sound) the needs of the many?



The "one" refers to the bitchy whiners who complain about the Amber Alerts.

Reading comprehension issues?


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

colchar said:


> Who the hell goes to a dealership for service???


Anyone who buys a new car with warranty?


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

TB2019 said:


> The "one" refers to the bitchy whiners who complain about the Amber Alerts.
> 
> Reading comprehension issues?



I knew what it referred to - you are clearly the one with the comprehension issues if you didn't understand the response. If you need me to, I can break it down for you. Perhaps the _Dick & Jane Learn to Read_ style would work better for you?


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

TB2019 said:


> Anyone who buys a new car with warranty?


And they will pay through the ass when other shops do warranty approved work for far less.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

colchar said:


> And they will pay through the ass when other shops do warranty approved work for far less.


it’s under warranty, you don’t pay for it.


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

colchar said:


> I knew what it referred to - you are clearly the one with the comprehension issues if you didn't understand the response. If you need me to, I can break it down for you. Perhaps the _Dick & Jane Learn to Read_ style would work better for you?


Sorry, but you’re just too dumb to respond to.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

colchar said:


> _Dick & Jane Learn the Word Warranty_


FIFY


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Depend


colchar said:


> Far more cost efficient to go elsewhere.


Like a lot of things, it depends where you live.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> Depend
> 
> Like a lot of things, it depends where you live.



True, but I live in the GTA so have thousands of options. Anyone living in a large enough town or urban area will also be spoiled with choice.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

TB2019 said:


> Sorry, but you’re just too dumb to respond to.



Sorry Skippy, but you're the idiot here. When you get your head out of your ass maybe you can rejoin the conversation. Until then, let the adults talk in peace.


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

colchar said:


> Sorry Skippy, but you're the idiot here. When you get your head out of your ass maybe you can rejoin the conversation. Until then, let the adults talk in peace.


LMAO, for an "educator" you're ridiculously easy to get riled up.

You must be a real pleasure in the classroom. I pity your students if this is the way you handle yourself.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

colchar said:


> Sorry Skippy, but you're the idiot here. When you get your head out of your ass maybe you can rejoin the conversation. Until then, let the adults talk in peace.


doubling down, I like it.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

colchar said:


> True, but I live in the GTA so have thousands of options. Anyone living in a large enough town or urban area will also be spoiled with choice.











Let's move this part of the thread to another place.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> Let's move this part of the thread to another place.



I said I live in the GTA, not in Toronto. Trust me, I hate Toronto too.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

colchar said:


> I hate Toronto too


lets have a show of hands for all those that agree with the statement....

one , two three ..... 9 thousand and ten , nine thousand and eleven , with one abstaining.

almost unanimous.


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

TB2019 said:


> The "one" refers to the bitchy whiners who complain about the Amber Alerts.


I've just wasted minutes going back through your "contributions" to this thread.

How very facile it is for you to avoid hard questions by abasing the questioners and not contributing *anything at all* to the discussion other than, "I say it works and you're a fool if you don't agree with me."

The person who seems bitchy and defensive is you. How come? Are you associated in some way with the boondoggle of the other night, or with the design of the system that so obviously needs a second look before misuse of it degrades its effectiveness?


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

colchar said:


> I said I live in the GTA, not in Toronto. Trust me, I hate Toronto too.


Never been there. I guess there's a difference. Sorta like Vancouver, Burnaby and New West.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

TB2019 said:


> LMAO, for an "educator" you're ridiculously easy to get riled up.


I'm not even remotely riled up. In fact, I am half asleep.





> You must be a real pleasure in the classroom. I pity your students if this is the way you handle yourself.


Unlike you, they aren't fuckwits.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)




----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I find it amazing, shocking and disturbing how so many people today cannot understand or grasp the concept of freedom from government intrusion into your privacy. Have we not had enough examples of that over the past 20 years or so? The social media mob now use shaming and threats to control anyone that does not agree with them. If you don't agree with the other comrades you are a racist, sub-human, bad person or one of many other over used terms that are false in many cases. I mentioned this before but will again. Not wanting to participate is not against the law (yet). Choosing to have little or no involvement in the rest of society, provided you are not breaking any laws (as far as I know) is not yet illegal. Neither is being an alcoholic or drug addict or an outright asshole. We still have those freedoms. You don't have to like any of them but you MUST respect the fact that they are currently not against any laws and people have the right to drink themselves to death or hate everyone and everything. That's the price we pay for freedom. The intent of the intrusion is not the point. The intent can be very noble but not everyone may want to participate and I believe that in a free society the individual should have the choice. Once the ball starts to roll, once the gate is opened it can be impossible to stop. There are tons of things that we may not agree with in terms of what other people do. But if they are not breaking any laws then they have the right to do what they want and think what they want. We are quickly losing the right of free thought and expression in this country. Mob mentality is taking over and it stifles opinion by many people. 

As I have mentioned many times before I am glad I am on the way out and not on the way in. Bleak future ahead.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

1,000 likes!

Guess I must be a brown noser too.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

davetcan said:


> 1,000 likes!
> 
> Guess I must be a brown noser too.


dress for the job you want, not the one you have


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Guitar101 said:


> Geez. I do for service on my 2010 GMC pickup that I bought new. Is that wrong?


Same here for a 2010 F150. 

Local dealer in Toronto is really good on price - kinda surprises me because I’ve never thought much about dealers before.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

vadsy said:


> dress for the job you want, not the one you have


How's the McDonald's job going?


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

davetcan said:


> How's the McDonald's job going?
> 
> View attachment 254918


not sure what gave you that idea, besides all McDonald’s jobs were outsourced a decade ago. it’s all done offshore now


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

vadsy said:


> not sure what gave you that idea, besides all McDonald’s jobs were outsourced a decade ago. it’s all done offshore now


Well dammit, I'd better tell my nephew he's out of work.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> *I find it amazing, shocking and disturbing how so many people today cannot understand or grasp the concept of freedom from government intrusion into your privacy. Have we not had enough examples of that over the past 20 years or so? The social media mob now use shaming and threats to control anyone that does not agree with them. If you don't agree with the other comrades you are a racist, sub-human, bad person or one of many other over used terms that are false in many cases*. I mentioned this before but will again. Not wanting to participate is not against the law (yet). Choosing to have little or no involvement in the rest of society, provided you are not breaking any laws (as far as I know) is not yet illegal. Neither is being an alcoholic or drug addict or an outright asshole. We still have those freedoms. You don't have to like any of them but you MUST respect the fact that they are currently not against any laws and people have the right to drink themselves to death or hate everyone and everything. That's the price we pay for freedom. The intent of the intrusion is not the point. The intent can be very noble but not everyone may want to participate and I believe that in a free society the individual should have the choice. Once the ball starts to roll, once the gate is opened it can be impossible to stop. There are tons of things that we may not agree with in terms of what other people do. But if they are not breaking any laws then they have the right to do what they want and think what they want. We are quickly losing the right of free thought and expression in this country. Mob mentality is taking over and it stifles opinion by many people.
> 
> As I have mentioned many times before I am glad I am on the way out and not on the way in. Bleak future ahead.


You need read no further than the first two posts in this thread to have that confirmed.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

allthumbs56 said:


> You need read no further than the first two posts in this thread to have that confirmed.


Well.... it seems like only us geezers get the concept. I suppose we are largely to blame for that. Here is something for you to chew on. This is a petition down in the states and pay close attention folks. It's coming to a channel near you. Only a matter of time.

_There are specific guidelines for children to be considered for an Amber Alert. So what about kids who do not qualify? Children who are not believed to have been abducted but are now missing.
What if your child went missing and could not be found but also did not fall into the guidelines to be considered an amber alert? As a parent I believe a national alert should be issued anyway. Such as a Silver Alert, which goes out when a senior citizen is missing. Anything can happen and it is a disservice to our children to not have a plan in place to protect them.
Please sign the Petition for the SERENITY ALERT, to give parents and loved ones a little more peace of mind knowing that the whole nation knows about their missing child.
_
NATIONAL !!!!!!! Remember what I said about getting the ball rolling. There are actually several petitions active pushing for the same thing. 

There is some good news though for us geezers. Once you lose your mind and wander off into the city to find your imaginary kitty, we will start getting alerts for them as well.

https://www.ourcommons.ca/Content/ePetitions/Responses/421/e-1588/421-03207_PS_E.pdf


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Well.... it seems like only us geezers get the concept. I suppose we are largely to blame for that.


In a different context Joni Mitchell said, "_don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got til its gone_". So many don't understand what they're shrugging off, and how hard it will be to get it back when it's gone.


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> This is a petition down in the states and pay close attention folks. It's coming to a channel near you. Only a matter of time.


At least in the U.S. if officials bow to such demands and alerts are firing at the rate of several per week, U.S. citizens can turn off the alerts rather than just ignore them. Why can't we?

AMBER alerts are already not the only thing we are forced to receive in this way:

Alert Ready Emergency Alert System - Pelmorex Corp. - Alert Ready Emergency Alert System

(scroll down 1/3 of the page, _What Types of Alerts are Broadcast?_)

There will be temptations to use the alert system for other things. For how long will they be resisted? Maybe we can look forward to "An Important Alert from Health Canada About Eating Meat", "An Important Alert from Transport Canada about Airport Security", and others.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

What kind of alert should we send out when we find out are freedoms have gone missing? Invent a new one or use one of the existing alerts? And will everyone hear that? And will they care? Hmmmm.............




vadsy said:


> dress for the job you want, not the one you have


That would be bad advice for most of my friends. They all want to be strippers.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm not sure that the issue is that some people can't grasp what more interference by Govt means, I think the real issue is that they want it.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

when I started out , they gave me a bag of marbles to keep track of , and I did a pretty good job of it.

I later found out that once you lost all your marbles, they promoted you to management .


----------



## Delores Streisand (Nov 4, 2018)

Is this what the politics forum is like?

If so, definitely count me out.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

This is the kind of idiotic response from the Niagara Regional Police Force regarding it's citizens. Note the use of the term "normal". Jawohl, mein Führer

Calling 911 is stupid, on many levels starting with the fact that it's completely useless and a waste of your time and the resource. But the complaint is not stupid nor should the NRP, who's salaries we pay, be calling down the population for expressing an opinion. This is the New World Order.


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

This still going. Time to smoke a fat one.


----------



## Guest (May 16, 2019)




----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Delores Streisand said:


> Is this what the politics forum is like?
> 
> If so, definitely count me out.


there’s usually more dicks hanging out


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

sorry , barn door was open .... zippppp !


----------



## Frenchy (Mar 23, 2011)

TV is fine for the alert, but the phone going off in the middle of the night for me to verify the property from people that might magically appear from an 8-9 hr ride instantly at my place is a little bit harsh. I think my dogs could manage that all by themselves.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

The audio alert should be reserved for imminent danger, such as a local tornado. Everything else could be covered by a simple text and alerts on TV. How many of you who are defending this actually got up and went out at 3 AM to look for this child? If someone was up already chances are they would be checking their phone every few minutes anyway, they're glued to most people's hands.

I support the alert, just not the stupidity of the method.


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

Sometimes people seem unable or unwilling to make good decisions. When parents can’t figure out that they shouldn’t smoke with their kids in the car we have to pass laws.

Same goes for driving. Personal rights and freedoms are important, but yes, I welcome some government “interference” to offset the unbelievable and unpredictable behavior some (apparently many) will demonstrate.

It seems like the consensus here, at least among the angry (most likely male) conservatives is that personal rights and freedoms are more important than protection of society at large.

That is very much the mantra I hear in the US, particularly in the southern states.

Ok, I get it.


----------



## rockinbluesfan (Mar 3, 2008)

Never got anything on my landline.


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

rockinbluesfan said:


> Never got anything on my landline.


We can fix that. I'll email the powers that be to come up with a flashing light and small buzzer that will be required to be installed on all landline phones. Why should you be able to sleep through the night?


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

TB2019 said:


> It seems like the consensus here, at least among the angry (most likely male) conservatives is that personal rights and freedoms are more important than protection of society at large.
> 
> Ok, I get it.


If that's what you believe then you clearly don't get.


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

davetcan said:


> If that's what you believe then you clearly don't get.


Dave, I get that our opinions and perspectives are different.

I'm not saying your perspective is wrong. Why must you imply that mine is?


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

looks like we all agree that there should be "something" but that this incarnation isn't it .

time for a reboot.

like the Phoenix pay system , great idea ... but it failed miserably , with the Gov originally telling us that they just have to work a few bugs out.
Now we're looking at a completely NEW system .... perhaps Amber Alert to follow.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

TB2019 said:


> Dave, I get that our opinions and perspectives are different.
> 
> I'm not saying your perspective is wrong. Why must you imply that mine is?


Because you've just implied that I, as an older conservative, don't value the life of a child or the safety of people in society. There are definitely people in this world who think that way, but they're NOT conservatives, they're mostly psychopaths.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm not even sure who is to blame. The Government, the police, or the service providers. 

I think the police are guilty of overuse, but then if a child was hurt or killed, and they had failed to sound the alarm, the critics would be merciless. They are caught between a rock and a hard place.

Sounds to me as if the service providers, Rogers, Bell etc, had a large hand in the nature of the alerts, perhaps some work could be done there.

The Government is of course responsible for the regulations surrounding the alerts, they need some work.

Social Media "could" be a source for great good, but it's certainly not always.



oldjoat said:


> looks like we all agree that there should be "something" but that this incarnation isn't it .
> 
> time for a reboot.
> 
> ...


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

davetcan said:


> Because you've just implied that I, as an older conservative, don't value the life of a child or the safety of people in society. There are definitely people in this world who think that way, but they're NOT conservatives, they're mostly psychopaths.


No I think you’re inferring that but it’s not what I said or implied.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

TB2019 said:


> It seems like the consensus here, at least among the angry (most likely male) conservatives is that personal rights and freedoms are more important than protection of society at large.


Read your own words and explain how else i should interpret it?

Perhaps I'll explain my situation, it may help you understand that there are other things at play here.

For the past 12 moths or so I've lived in almost constant pain. I don't sleep well because of it, and sometimes have to take drugs to help me sleep. I avoid painkillers because of what they do to your kidneys and liver. Something you won't have to worry about for a few years if you're lucky. If I sleep through the night it's like a Godsend, 6 hours if I'm really lucky. The last thing I need to happen is to be awoken by a ridiculously loud emergency alert that I can do absolutely NOTHING about. Once I'm awake there's no getting back to sleep.

I'm most definitely not alone in this situation, there are many many more people living like this than children being abducted. I'm lucky in that i can still function fairly normally most of the time, there are people suffering much more than I am who can't help even though they'd like nothing better.

Bottom line is we're not all the same, for that reason alone the system should be made optional. At the moment I try to remember to turn off my phone at night, I don't like doing it but that's life.

Sorry if you disagree.


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

davetcan said:


> Read your own words and explain how else i should interpret it?
> 
> Perhaps I'll explain my situation, it may help you understand that there are other things at play here.
> 
> ...


To be honest if you wanted to opt out I really don't mind that. I just wonder how many would also agree to never take advantage of the system if THEIR child or grand child went missing.

I'm an insomniac, seldom getting more than two or three consecutive hours of good sleep. I've learned to live with that so maybe sleep is more important to some than it is to me. Personally I'm willing and happy to read a message that could conceivably save a child's life. It's worth any minor inconvenience that may bring.

Should we make it better? Sure, of course, but for me that doesn't mean just because the incident is a few hours away (two cars travelling in opposite directions can eat up a 7 hour drive in 3 or 4 hours) that I don't want to receive those.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

TB2019 said:


> To be honest if you wanted to opt out I really don't mind that. I just wonder how many would also agree to never take advantage of the system if THEIR child or grand child went missing.
> 
> I'm an insomniac, seldom getting more than two or three consecutive hours of good sleep. I've learned to live with that so maybe sleep is more important to some than it is to me. Personally I'm willing and happy to read a message that could conceivably save a child's life. It's worth any minor inconvenience that may bring.
> 
> Should we make it better? Sure, of course, but for me that doesn't mean just because the incident is a few hours away (two cars travelling in opposite directions can eat up a 7 hour drive in 3 or 4 hours) that I don't want to receive those.


If you'd read any of my posts closely you'd realize that I am also more than happy to read any message that could help save anyone, I'm just not happy with the delivery method.

Once you'd received the message at 3 AM in the morning what would you do exactly? Jump in your car and start cruising around looking for the suspects?


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

davetcan said:


> If you'd read any of my posts closely you'd realize that I am also more than happy to read any message that could help save anyone, I'm just not happy with the delivery method.
> 
> Once you'd received the message at 3 AM in the morning what would you do exactly? Jump in your car and start cruising around looking for the suspects?


Well, I received it at 5:00 am (ish) and I get up at 5:30. What would I do? Depends I suppose. In the recent incident where the mother abducted her son and they were apprehended in Chatham, I was on the highway eastbound and was watching very carefully for the subject vehicle and plate. Had I seen it I would have done whatever I could to get behind her.

I've read your posts but with all due respect, my posts are not directed to you or anyone else exclusively.

It's basically an "if the shoe fits..." thing.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

TB2019 said:


> It's basically an "if the shoe fits..." thing.


But it's not that cut and dried, nothing ever is. I don't think this particular shoe fits any of the "angry old white dudes" in this thread.

But you are free to think otherwise and I'll defend your right to do so.


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

davetcan said:


> But it's not that cut and dried, nothing ever is. I don't think this particular shoe fits any of the "angry old white dudes" in this thread.
> 
> But you are free to think otherwise and I'll defend your right to do so.


That's the cool thing about the interwebs. I may be an angry conservative myself, or I could be a Liberal woman.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

TB2019 said:


> That's the cool thing about the interwebs. I may be an angry conservative myself, or I could be a Liberal woman.


There are actually many more than two options. (or so I'm told)


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I wonder how many people actually read/listened to the alert when it went off and how many actually registered it's meaning and how many actually did something proactive about it at the time.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

TB2019 said:


> ..... I could be a Liberal woman.


I play one on TV.


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

vadsy said:


> I play one on TV.


I'm Castor Semenya.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

TB2019 said:


> I'm Castor Semenya.


I KNEW IT!!


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

vadsy said:


> I KNEW IT!!


Shit, I thought YOU were Castor.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

davetcan said:


> Shit, I thought YOU were Castor.


I *used* to be


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

vadsy said:


> I *used* to be


LOL


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

vadsy said:


> I *used* to be


I figured you were at least Dennis Rodman.


----------



## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

Not sure about other phones but mine (BB Key2, scoff if you wish but it works for me) has a "Do Not Disturb Mode" which allows only priority calls from either my contacts only or even only a specific number if I wish. Though I received the Amber Alert when it was sent I didn't hear any alarms and wasn't awakened. It simply showed up on my screen and I could act as I saw fit once I woke up and noticed it. Seems this would solve a lot of the complaints for those who need to keep their phones "awake" for incoming calls. Now if I could only keep the neighbor's dog from barking at 5am!


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

TB2019 said:


> I figured you were at least Dennis Rodman.


just my wiener


----------



## Guest (May 17, 2019)

Hamstrung said:


> Now if I could only keep the neighbor's dog from barking at 5am!


Ask the neighbour to buy an anti-bark collar?


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

rockinbluesfan said:


> Never got anything on my landline.


Not on mine either. Just on the clock radio. How about the Doctor on call, no thanks.


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

laristotle said:


> Ask the neighbour to buy an anti-bark collar?


Evidently we need better dogs too.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

rockinbluesfan said:


> Never got anything on my landline.


Wish I still had one.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

TB2019 said:


> Evidently we need better dogs too.


No, just better neighbours. It's never the dogs fault.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

davetcan said:


> It's never the dogs fault.


sorry, there are some pretty sick puppies out there (inbreeding, head is too small for their ego)


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

davetcan said:


> It's never the dogs fault.


double post , sorry


----------



## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

Budda said:


> Dont want alerts at night? Turn off your phone when you go to bed.
> 
> Boom. Solved.


No, not a solution, so let’s remove that from the set of excuses for the completely dumbass execution by CRTC and the cops. Example, my Dad is old, I need phone on to get HIS call. Times millions, to coin @boyscout’s phrase.


----------



## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

Hamstrung said:


> Not sure about other phones but mine (BB Key2, scoff if you wish but it works for me) has a "Do Not Disturb Mode" which allows only priority calls from either my contacts only or even only a specific number if I wish. Though I received the Amber Alert when it was sent I didn't hear any alarms and wasn't awakened. It simply showed up on my screen and I could act as I saw fit once I woke up and noticed it. Seems this would solve a lot of the complaints for those who need to keep their phones "awake" for incoming calls.


The implementation you’re describing would be a pathway to a better implementation. However, that implementation is actually illegal according to CRTC rules. In the equivalent US FCC-regulated system, there are two alert modes, imminent danger and amber, and one or both can be turned off/controlled. In the CRTC implementation for Canadians, neither are allowed to be turned off/controlled. On iPhones, for example, this functionality is controlled by the geography of your SIM card. When I say “dumbass CRTC execution”, this is what I mean.

This is what’s available in US:


----------



## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

davetcan said:


> No, just better neighbours. It's never the dogs fault.


Hoomans definitely make more noise than animals.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

LexxM3 said:


> No, not a solution, so let’s remove that from the set of excuses for the completely dumbass execution by CRTC and the cops. Example, my Dad is old, I need phone on to get HIS call. Times millions, to coin @boyscout’s phrase.


It is still a solution. It may not be an ideal solution, or a feasible one for some. But it works.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

Budda said:


> It is still a solution. It may not be an ideal solution, or a feasible one for some. But it works.


Yes, it’s something some can do. My objection is to any implication that that solution eliminates the need to immediately fix the underlying cause — it is not a solution in that sense.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

LexxM3 said:


> Yes, it’s something some can do. My objection is to any implication that that solution eliminates the need to immediately fix the underlying cause — it is not a solution in that sense.


Oh I understand that. I just dont like being told that my answer doesnt work when it does. 

Has anyone who posted here written the government yet? Emailed their MP? Contacted their local police department? The OPP?

So far it sounds like people complaining online and not people actually trying to change anything.


----------



## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

Budda said:


> Oh I understand that.


Fair enough. But this isn’t a 1:1 conversation here, many will not understand.



Budda said:


> Has anyone who posted here written the government yet? Emailed their MP? Contacted their local police department? The OPP?
> 
> So far it sounds like people complaining online and not people actually trying to change anything.


Well, some seemed to have called 911


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Budda said:


> So far it sounds like people complaining online and not people actually trying to change anything.


yes, this is whats its all about. if we change things then we have less to complain about, eventually we may have nothing to complain about. that simply won't do


----------



## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

For the record, I did contact CRTC and was aggressively ignored. Eventually, the clean up will require an actual revolution.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Aggressively ignored - nice turn of phrase.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

guitarman2 said:


> Good thing your not a cop. I guess if they knew what area to focus the alerts on they'd know where the kid is and just go get her.


I came back to say you don't know me and you don't know shit. You argue like a 10 year old. To the rest of you, good to know who the real decent people are on this forum. Maybe we'll meet in person someday and we can talk about my career as a cop. That make you happy?


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Chitmo said:


> Fuck, you don’t have much to do or much to complain about if you’re bitching about being notified for a missing child. Get a hobby!


Very disappointed in you Chito, I had you over at my place to jam, you seemed like a decent guy. Didn't think personal attacks, especially with such hostility, were in you.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

1SweetRide said:


> Very disappointed in you Chito, I had you over at my place to jam, you seemed like a decent guy. Didn't think personal attacks, especially with such hostility, were in you.


Mistaken identity mang, I was always blunt and not @Chito, I do however have enough integrity to not let you place blame/credit where it doesn’t belong.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> I came back to say you don't know me and you don't know shit. You argue like a 10 year old. To the rest of you, good to know who the real decent people are on this forum. Maybe we'll meet in person someday and *we can talk about my career as a cop*. That make you happy?


Well glad you're in Ottawa then.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

guitarman2 said:


> Good thing your not a cop. I guess if they knew what area to focus the alerts on they'd know where the kid is and just go get her.


While you're being so critical, try adding some grammar to your comments. It's "you are" or "you're", not "your". Doesn't help your juvenile remarks when you also write like a juvenile.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Chitmo said:


> Mistaken identity mang, I was always blunt and not @Chito, I do however have enough integrity to not let you place blame/credit where it doesn’t belong.


You know, I'm pissed but I do appreciate you saying this. I have respect for you for doing that. Thank you


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> While you're being so critical, try adding some grammar to your comments. It's "you are" or "you're", not "your". Doesn't help your juvenile remarks when you also write like a juvenile.


ya I gess yor a kop. yor the grammar pulice.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

guitarman2 said:


> ya I gess yor a kop. yor the grammar pulice.


Fuck, I had to smile at this.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Glad to see you back @1SweetRide 
But I was really hoping I'd get to post that song by Player (in a strictly platonic way).


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I didn’t get anything on my wind up alarm clock.


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## Guest (May 19, 2019)




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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

It is not tantamount to child abuse and neglect to criticize the way the AMBER alert system was used the other night - and is too-often used - and suggesting that a re-think of aspects of it is in order to further improve the system's acceptance and effectiveness.

Robin Urback provides another voice of reason in the article below:

Canada's wireless Amber Alert system can be improved. That shouldn't be a taboo suggestion: Opinion | CBC News

_I can already hear the critics: "So what? It's a minor inconvenience; roll over and go to sleep." Most will. I did when my phone went off early Tuesday morning. But I also silenced my phone without looking at the alert, since I assumed — even in my drowsy stupor — that it was an Amber Alert, for which I would be of no use. That is, of course, the danger in transmitting all emergency alerts in the same way, with the same tone. The middle-of-the-night "get away from the window" alert is assumed to be another Amber Alert, and ignored.

*Despite the fact that individuals can disable notifications, the Amber Alert system is still hugely successful in the U.S. Between January 2013 and April 2018, wireless emergency alerts were specifically credited with the rescue of 56 children. For context, there were 195 activated Amber Alert cases in the U.S. in 2017, 193 of which resulted in a recovery, and 39 of those were a direct result of some sort of Amber Alert transmission. *_


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

The US also has *way more people* than Canada does.

What's an apples to apples comparison?


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

About 7:30 this morning the cell-phone emergency alert system was used to warn millions of people across all of southern Ontario of an incident at the Pickering nuclear generating station.

The alert advised that people *within 10km* of the facility should not be concerned, but should monitor local media for information.

I live *150km* from the facility. Millions of people from Windsor to North Bay to Cornwall were alerted about this mild local event. 

Two hours later it was revealed that the alert had been sent by mistake; there had been no incident at the Pickering facility.

How was that information transmitted? Despite that it was already being liberally broadcast on most radio stations and online media, the morons sent ANOTHER obnoxious alert to millions of cellphones throughout southern Ontario to report that the first "stay calm, listen to radio" message had been sent in error, something that most Ontarians likely already knew.

This alert system SERIOUSLY needs a re-think. Everything from who gets to trigger alerts (obviously from experience so far, too many people have that power), to the conditions under which they are sent, where they are broadcast, and whether we can (like citizens in the U.S.) suspend or stop receiving them needs to be reconsidered from the ground up.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

OK, after investigation they've identified the guy who sent out the nuclear-incident warning this morning.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/a444d518efc70b361d490f74f07cab97/tumblr_mfuok8vlZt1qeweuno1_r1_500.gifv


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

This is why I don’t have a cell phone. Problem solved.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

Except my kids and wife have one so not entirely solved


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Got it here in London. Thank goodness. I had to cancel my plans to drive to Pickering to see the Nuclear generator. They saved me a ton of time. Until they sent another emergency to say there was in fact, nothing to start with.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

I've seen some idiots in newspaper comment sections propagating conspiracy theories that something really did happen and that it is being hidden from us. Fucking pathetic morons.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I was already up and attending to my volunteer job when my phone alerted my back pocket that something was awry. Sounded pretty cool in a big old (circa 1880) gothic revival church. That aside, I hope that with some tweaking they can make the alerts more recipient friendly. We often drive past the nuclear plant near Kincardine Ontario. If there's ever a meltdown I suppose I'd like some warning, and I hope I'm upstream and upwind of the place. Shades of Chernobyl.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

colchar said:


> I've seen some idiots in newspaper comment sections propagating conspiracy theories that something really did happen and that it is being hidden from us. Fucking pathetic morons.


yea, thats never happened before, why would they think that?. take some time, breath deep and sunbathe this afternoon


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

boyscout said:


> About 7:30 this morning the cell-phone emergency alert system was used to warn millions of people across all of southern Ontario of an incident at the Pickering nuclear generating station.
> 
> The alert advised that people *within 10km* of the facility should not be concerned, but should monitor local media for information.
> 
> ...


I live 400 kms from Toronto. We get every single Toronto Alert.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

1SweetRide said:


> I live 400 kms from Toronto. We get every single Toronto Alert.


Yup. Not smart, and there's surely a way to NOT do that. I'm just guessing, but there's gotta be a way to selectively broadcast from towers in a region rather than every tower in the whole of southern Ontario.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

boyscout said:


> Yup. Not smart, and there's surely a way to NOT do that. I'm just guessing, but there's gotta be a way to selectively broadcast from towers in a region rather than every tower in the whole of southern Ontario.


Probably but why would they care to bother? The news media throws everyone under the bus that dares to complain. Look at the reaction I got just from this forum.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

My phone is set for fuck off and leave me alone so I never hear them.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)




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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

Wardo said:


> My phone is set for fuck off and leave me alone so I never hear them.


Can you share what that looks like ... because it is not supposed to be possible on a Canadian SIM card, unless the phone is simply off.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

LexxM3 said:


> Can you share what that looks like ... because it is not supposed to be possible on a Canadian SIM card, unless the phone is simply off.


Yeah, I thought that too but my iphone is on do not disturb and it doesn't make any noise - it might vibrate but I wouldn't notice that.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

Doesn’t work on mine, DND and vibrate only, still wakes us up every time with the 100% meaningless or false alerts so far.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

My older Samsung S4 Mini does not get the alerts. 

Another reason not to get a new phone.

But then a friend of mine called me right after the alert to wake me up to talk about the nuclear disaster that was happening.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

LexxM3 said:


> Can you share what that looks like ... because it is not supposed to be possible on a Canadian SIM card, unless the phone is simply off.


Turn off the ringer, put it in Airplane mode. That does it.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

1SweetRide said:


> Turn off the ringer, put it in Airplane mode. That does it.


No, placing phone in airplane mode or turning the phone off is not a solution — I keep phone on always to receive actual for real emergency calls from and about elderly parents. And as stated, turning off ringer doesn’t work (and is not legal to work with a Canadian SIM, as idiotic as that is).

This is nearly the whole crux of the problem with the idiots that designed and operate this system — we can’t opt out of their idiotic behaviours and decisions.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Wardo said:


> Yeah, I thought that too but my iphone is on do not disturb and it doesn't make any noise - it might vibrate but I wouldn't notice that.


If you're one of those Luddites who doesn't get a new iPhone every year or two you may have one stuck in the world of 3G communications protocol (rather than the newer 4G/LTE). Or you may have deliberately or unwittingly set your phone to use 3G by default.

These obnoxious alerts only come across on LTE.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

It's not 3G.

Although I have an Enoch Hammer someplace might be in the back of my truck.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

boyscout said:


> Or you may have deliberately or unwittingly set your phone to use 3G by default.
> 
> These obnoxious alerts only come across on LTE.


REALLY!!! Well that’s one piece of useful information I did not know. I will research and test — I can set my iPhone to 3G every night, that would totally work. Thank you!


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I just turn it off at night. If someone really needs to get a hold of me they can call the land line. Yes I still have one


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

By the way, on the main system site, there is a spot in Contact Us that seems to allow inquiry about opting out. I requested opt out. We’ll see what happens next.

Alert Ready Emergency Alert System - Pelmorex Corp. - Alert Ready Emergency Alert System


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

davetcan said:


> If someone really needs to get a hold of me they can call the land line. Yes I still have one


Shit, I just checked my land line and it still works, haven't paid the bill since a long time.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I heard the alert on the radio this morning. I gave it no concern. I'm yet to get any of these notices on my phone...weird.....

On a side note, I turned off the light in the room I was in a little while ago and noticed my whole body was glowing in the dark. Should I be concerned?


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> .. I'm yet to get any of these notices on my phone...weird.....


Judging from the stuff you post on here you are probably getting "how dare you" alerts on your phone from Greta Tunaberger every day or two but just don't want anyone to know about it.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Wardo said:


> Judging from the stuff you post on here you are probably getting "how dare you" alerts on your phone from Greta Tunaberger every day or two but just don't want anyone to know about it.


I just throw plastic bags at her and she starts kicking and screaming on the ground.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

There was this




then there was this




I'm not sure how things are set on my iphone 5 or my burner phone but since there has been Amber Alerts in the area and I don't get any I figure the alarm system is turned off. As far as the phones G spots go I've never found one but I'm not going to tickle the phones to find out.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> I heard the alert on the radio this morning. I gave it no concern. I'm yet to get any of these notices on my phone...weird.....
> 
> On a side note, I turned off the light in the room I was in a little while ago and noticed my whole body was glowing in the dark. Should I be concerned?


Only if your pecker turns orange and my advice for that would be to quit eating Cheetos and Cheezies and sitting in the dark.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

LexxM3 said:


> By the way, on the main system site, there is a spot in Contact Us that seems to allow inquiry about opting out. I requested opt out. We’ll see what happens next.
> 
> Alert Ready Emergency Alert System - Pelmorex Corp. - Alert Ready Emergency Alert System



I was about to be all over that, but according to their FAQ:

_Given the importance of warning Canadians of imminent threats to the safety of life and property, the CRTC requires wireless service providers to distribute alerts on all compatible wireless devices connected to an LTE network in the target area. *Therefore, it is not possible to opt out of receiving the alerts. *_


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Got this Purple-Nurple alert this morning:

"ONTARIO - HOSTILE SITUATION DEVELOPING ON INTERNET GUITAR FORUM!

IF SEEN, DO NOT ENGAGE, THROW HALF PRICE RENTAL COUPONS AND SEEK SHELTER!"

Not sure why I got that, it's in Ontario and I can't do anything about it.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jimsz said:


> Got this Purple-Nurple alert this morning:
> 
> "ONTARIO - HOSTILE SITUATION DEVELOPING ON INTERNET GUITAR FORUM!
> 
> ...


You would figure that being in Surrey your alerts would be from some where else than Ont., like maybe toronto.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Only heard about this today. My cellphone is in its shrink-wrapped box at the store.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

colchar said:


> I was about to be all over that, but according to their FAQ:
> 
> _Given the importance of warning Canadians of imminent threats to the safety of life and property, the CRTC requires wireless service providers to distribute alerts on all compatible wireless devices connected to an LTE network in the target area. *Therefore, it is not possible to opt out of receiving the alerts. *_


Yes, but perhaps if a few million of us whine enough ...


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

LexxM3 said:


> This is nearly the whole crux of the problem with the idiots that designed and operate this system — we can’t opt out of their idiotic behaviours and decisions.


There are brilliant IT people and there are idiots. A surprising number of idiots, from my experience. Sometimes the idiots get the contracts because… connections. I'd say that they also don't care or are so numb that it never crossed their mind that my wife (I hope to die without a smartphone) doesn't need to know that there is an incident of no stated kind at a location 200 k from us that we should *not* do anything about, even if we live right there. Never mind that it's an fing Sunday and there was freezing rain the night before and so we were sho-nuff gonna be sleeping in.

I hope people lose their jobs (for which they obviously were not fit) and some software developer gets sued or blacklisted. I have no patience for well-paid incompetence.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Doug Gifford said:


> There are brilliant IT people and there are idiots.


garbage in, garbage out.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Hope you guys realize that there are IT people here and abouts. That's all.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Dorian2 said:


> Hope you guys realize that there are IT people here and abouts. That's all.


Yes and I'm one of them. You know, it's not the IT people who are to blame for all these fiascos. It's the people who make the decisions that are to blame. A lot of times, these people who makes decisions don't listen to their IT folks. I've worked in IT all my entire career, about 43 years now and 9 times out of 10, when a project fails, it's the fault of the people who make the decisions, the people who manage these projects. A lot of these decisions are made because they need to get it done at a specific time that is suitable for their careers rather than for the benefit of the company/agency that these software are being developed for. IT folks are there to develop, maintain and fix these applications but it doesn't matter whether you have good IT people when idiotic decisions are being made by people who mostly don't have a clue how to manage these kind of projects.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Chito said:


> Yes and I'm one of them. You know, it's not the IT people who are to blame for all these fiascos. It's the people who make the decisions that are to blame. A lot of times, these people who makes decisions don't listen to their IT folks. I've worked in IT all my entire career, about 43 years now and 9 times out of 10, when a project fails, it's the fault of the people who make the decisions, the people who manage these projects. A lot of these decisions are made because they need to get it done at a specific time that is suitable for their careers rather than for the benefit of the company/agency that these software are being developed for. IT folks are there to develop, maintain and fix these applications but it doesn't matter whether you have good IT people when idiotic decisions are being made by people who mostly don't have a clue how to manage these kind of projects.


Couldn't have said it better myself. IT also happens to be an extremely thankless job that requires you to manage people more than the tech aspects of a project half the time. Particularly the PM's.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

wow !
that dilbert hits it right on the head

rollout in 3 months ... so subtract 2 weeks for final testing and 2 months to train the workers
it gives you 2 weeks to plan/ design , code, test , document and finish the new computer system.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Chito said:


> Yes and I'm one of them. You know, it's not the IT people who are to blame for all these fiascos. It's the people who make the decisions that are to blame. A lot of times, these people who makes decisions don't listen to their IT folks. I've worked in IT all my entire career, about 43 years now and 9 times out of 10, when a project fails, it's the fault of the people who make the decisions, the people who manage these projects. A lot of these decisions are made because they need to get it done at a specific time that is suitable for their careers rather than for the benefit of the company/agency that these software are being developed for. IT folks are there to develop, maintain and fix these applications but it doesn't matter whether you have good IT people when idiotic decisions are being made by people who mostly don't have a clue how to manage these kind of projects.


Despite being one of the harsh critics of the alert system I'll throw in with the IT people (I've been one myself). 

There's no chance that this cluster-you-know-what is the result of bad IT decisions. Its signature is *absolutely* one of planning and decisions by committees of insulated inter-agency government employees without much political oversight and with far too little public input. The committees likely drove the IT people nuts during the long process of implementing the system but the IT people in the end achieved what they were told to do.

Unfortunately. But I'd take government by IT geeks over the governments we have any day.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

What our emergency-alert system could learn from my email provider | TVO.org

_As Ontarians wait for a full explanation of the incident, we should be reasonable. As always, there may be mitigating factors here we do not yet know about. But it is important to make sure that we learn the appropriate lessons from this, lessons that we perhaps could have learned after the Hawaiian debacle two years ago. *An emergency-alerting system is going to work only so long as the public has faith in it. Incidents such as Sunday’s false alarm are corrosive to public confidence.* Getting the system in place and operational took many years longer than expected, and it has been beset by controversies and technical glitches ever since. It’s clear it still needs work. Let’s make sure that the next update to the system that might one day be called upon to save all our lives includes the same kind of safeguards that prevent sloppy mouse clicks from trashing our work emails._


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Just seen a report that the RCMP did not use the emergency alert system to warn people in Nova Scotia that a gunman was on the run and killing people along the way.

They used Twitter instead.

Sixteen people were killed.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Actually they're saying 19 people were killed and they are expecting more. There are 16 crime scenes so far. I feel so bad for the families.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

I heard the guy was dressed like an RCMP and driving what looks like a police car.


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