# Is Professional Hockey Losing Fans?



## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

As a life-long hockey fan I remember reading two articles since the summer proclaiming that NHL hockey was losing fan support, and it is becoming a game viewed more by older people. In essence, they implied that the younger generations are losing interest in it, or never gravitated toward it in the first place. I have no reason to doubt this, as the game seemed more entertaining in years passed.

There is a lot wrong with hockey today and I get tired of the continual rule changes, the exorbitant cost of attendance and the amount of questionable penalties called. But I think there are many other reasons as well.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

I hope it is losing support then maybe they can cut bait on a few teams, get rid of 100 or so of the worst players in the league and make the product on the ice better.


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2016)

Krelf said:


> In essence, they implied that the younger generations are losing interest in it, or never gravitated toward it in the first place.


Video games.
Kids rarely (if ever) hit their street playing road hockey anymore.
Ask any what the term 'Car!' means and you'll most likely get a shrug.

Me, I gave up on it (and all sports) because of the strikes/lockouts.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

I gave up on hockey a long time ago. Too many teams, too much time wasted watching.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Fewer kids are playing due to cost (more playing soccer) and a long and involved schedule. The Leafs have also been bad for over a decade meaning they have "lost" a generation so to speak. Add in increased competition for viewership with other sports and changing demographics (immigration and more diverse backgrounds = people who didn't grow up with hockey) and it all adds up.

I don't think hockey is in "trouble" but it isn't the juggernaut it once was. Actually, I think golf is the sport in trouble.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

I can't sit for 3 hours and watch any sports so I PVR everything and watch what I want. As for hockey, I'm a Leaf fan through and through and only watch the playoffs. I've been retired 12 years and they made the playoffs once.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

I have always been a big fan, but I admit my number one sport now is soccer. No commercial breaks and no stoppages in play. Once you understand the intricacies of the game, you can see the battles and the strategy all over the field and it becomes very interesting, even if they don't score. You can go to watch a live match or watch it on TV and you're guaranteed it will be over 2 hours after kickoff, no matter what (unless it's a playoff with extra time or something).


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

To this day, the thing that goes through my head most often while watching any game is, "This is boring. I'd much rather be playing." I absolutely loved playing sports growing up and played as often as we could get a group of friends together, but I never liked watching sports. Is there a correlation between playing sports and watching sports? Maybe I'm the statistical anomaly.

I do admire skill and I enjoy seeing people perform, who are the best in the world at what they do. So, I'll watch highlights or the occasional sports game with my wife, but that's pretty much as far as it goes. You can understand and appreciate the individual skill and intricacies of strategic play without being a "fan" and investing in the bigger story (especially if you're a former player). Just like you can understand and appreciate a guitarist's technique or a musical arrangement without being a "fan" of that guitar player, that band, or even that style of music. There are sports I think are pretty dumb, but I appreciate the skill involved in performing at a high level within that sport.

All that said, another big hindrance for me is the "fan" mentality. The whole, "My team is awesome and all other teams suck" thing is just mindless noise to me. One reason I don't watch sports with people is because sometimes the team opposing the one I'm "supposed" to be cheering for makes an amazing play, so I react positively towards the display of skill. Then get yelled out of the room for my lack of dedication to team X. Huh? Even if you're hoping and cheering for one team to win over the other, is it not even possible for you to acknowledge skillful plays by the opposing side? I just can't wrap my head around it.

Lastly, my issue with professional sports in general. The usual stuff that I think most people don't like, if they're aware of it. Massive corruption, cover ups that cost lives, and a host of other things.


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

I played hockey from the time I could walk until I was about 45. But the NHL lost me at the last strike. The amount of money in (all) professional sports today eclipses the game for me.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

jbealsmusic said:


> All that said, another big hindrance for me is the "fan" mentality. The whole, "My team is awesome and all other teams suck" thing is just mindless noise to me. One reason I don't watch sports with people is because sometimes the team opposing the one I'm "supposed" to be cheering for makes an amazing play, so I react positively towards the display of skill. Then get yelled out of the room for my lack of dedication to team X. Huh? Even if you're hoping and cheering for one team to win over the other, is it not even possible for you to acknowledge skillful plays by the opposing side? I just can't wrap my head around it.


amen....
we had a Halloween party last weekend and the Habs/leafs game was on. was funny listening to a Habs fan in the room picking part the TML team, and the Leafs fans going back at him. Only idiots argue about what amount which team sucks slightly less than the other. Yet when they ask whom im a fan of and I say whomerver is playing best that year, they look at me like im crazy. I love the sport. I don't have any responsibility to any particular organization.
What exactly is it they are a fan of anyways? the players change periodically and turn over almost entirely every 10 yrs or so. Coaches/management about the same. Is it the pretty colors and logos of the uniform? that's kind of ghey. Is it the ownership? are ppl big fans of the Ontario Teachers Pension, or Rogers, or Little Ceasars Pizza or whomever owns their favorite team? ya, owners seem like real nice people (Donald Sterling, Marge Schott, Harold Ballard, and countless others).
I just don't get it.










Back to the OP, from what ive heard, the NFL is really struggling to retain fans this year, ratings are down. Maybe its something to do with professional sports on the whole as a product that isn't appealing to millenials or something?


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Watching multi-millionaires play a game while you are drowning in student debt probably isn't very appealing to young people. Never mind what it actually costs to go to most pro sports these days between tickets, food and drink.


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

In the eighties there were fewer advertisements on the ice. And the commercial breaks were much shorter. The skyrocketing salaries of the players are directly related to us fans tied to our seats for 3 hours or so to watch a game that is increasingly defensively minded and boring. 
I still love the game. But I couldn't justify really why I find it entertaining and worthwhile. Most of the time I just feel used.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

isoneedacoffee said:


> In the eighties there were fewer advertisements on the ice. And the commercial breaks were much shorter. The skyrocketing salaries of the players are directly related to us fans tied to our seats for 3 hours or so to watch a game that is increasingly defensively minded and boring.
> I still love the game. But I couldn't justify really why I find it entertaining and worthwhile. Most of the time I just feel used.


It really bugs me sometimes. The constant, pounding sales pitch, combined with the brutally high prices. I was at a Jays game and figured I'd try to pick up a jersey. Well...we are looking at well north of $100 for a polyester jersey made somewhere far away that probably has a cost of about $10. It pissed me off, not because I couldn't afford it, but because it is just so shameless. The idea that this is all about the fans and all the feelgood marketing they do just makes me even more cynical. Pro sports are about one thing: a direct line between your wallet and the shareholders' accounts.

Look at the ticket prices for the Winter Classic this year at BMO Field.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

isoneedacoffee said:


> In the eighties there were fewer advertisements on the ice. And the commercial breaks were much shorter. The skyrocketing salaries of the players are directly related to us fans tied to our seats for 3 hours or so to watch a game that is increasingly defensively minded and boring.
> I still love the game. But I couldn't justify really why I find it entertaining and worthwhile. Most of the time I just feel used.


watch the Leafs. you wont see much defensive minded playing lol









kidding aside, its one of the reasons im finding them much more interesting this year than I have in a long time, even including the last few yrs they made the playoffs. they are a pure goal scoring team. And as I have nothing invested in them, its no less fun win or lose.


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

jdto said:


> It really bugs me sometimes. The constant, pounding sales pitch, combined with the brutally high prices. I was at a Jays game and figured I'd try to pick up a jersey. Well...we are looking at well north of $100 for a polyester jersey made somewhere far away that probably has a cost of about $10. It pissed me off, not because I couldn't afford it, but because it is just so shameless. The idea that this is all about the fans and all the feelgood marketing they do just makes me even more cynical. Pro sports are about one thing: a direct line between your wallet and the shareholders' accounts.
> 
> Look at the ticket prices for the Winter Classic this year at BMO Field.


Agreed. But what bugs me more is the lack of real choice. You can choose to buy the jersey or not and even go to the game or not. But I can't choose to erase the ads on the ice, on the boards, etcetera. By watching them the league makes more money. Is it needed? Or is it excessive? I fully believe it's excessive at all levels of professional sports. Unless I pvr the game I can't skip commercials. And I have tried watching things recorded but like the feeling of watching sports live knowing that I'm part of a community of fans watching the same thing at the same time.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

isoneedacoffee said:


> Agreed. But what bugs me more is the lack of real choice. You can choose to buy the jersey or not and even go to the game or not. But I can't choose to erase the ads on the ice, on the boards, etcetera. By watching them the league makes more money. Is it needed? Or is it excessive? I fully believe it's excessive at all levels of professional sports. Unless I pvr the game I can't skip commercials. And I have tried watching things recorded but like the feeling of watching sports live knowing that I'm part of a community of fans watching the same thing at the same time.


its gonna get worse, man. adverts on uniforms is coming, prob for most sports, except maybe baseball.








if theyre doing it in the AHL, you can bet its a test for the NHL. and we know its already all over Europe. literally. lol


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

If the UFC can do a deal where reebok bars advertising on uniforms so can the NHL. They have had a deal with reebok for quite a while now and I dont think they'll (reebok) go for it.

As far as the game losing fans, I think hockey is just as exciting if not more so now than in the past. Players are faster, more talented and all about the game. Long gone are the days of guy lafleur going for a smoke in between periods. And they are still allowing some fisticuffs. Anyone see the leafs vs canucks the other night? Some big hits and I loved seeing Miller go after the leafs tough guy, shows character. 

What pisses me off is when I try and watch a leafs game on NHL network and its blocked out. I dont have cable and rely on my paid subscription to their service to watch the games so it makes my blood boil when I can't. Luckily the bar is a short walk from my house and the beer cools me down.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

The problem is the economy continues to tank, and prices keep going up. How many of the seats are owned by corporations or unions? How much is the game? How much is the beer? How much is the burger? When it was cheap, they could fill stadiums easily. Now they wonder why they cant get bums in seats?..............


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Accept2 said:


> The problem is the economy continues to tank, and prices keep going up. How many of the seats are owned by corporations or unions? How much is the game? How much is the beer? How much is the burger? When it was cheap, they could fill stadiums easily. Now they wonder why they cant get bums in seats?..............


Case in point. In 1960 I recall the ticket prices to see the Leafs at MLG were as follows:

Gray seat $1
Green seat $2
Blue seat $3.50
Red Seat $5

(Gold seats were put in years later, when all other seat colours were moved up.)

Back then the average weekly wage was between $80-120 weekly. So it cost about 1% of a person's gross weekly wage to buy a nose bleed seat, or 5% to get up close to the play. For this you got to see Howe, Richard, Beliveau, Keon, Armstrong, Bower, Plante and Hull depending on the visiting team.

Compare these to today's prices!


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Krelf said:


> Case in point. In 1960 I recall the ticket prices to see the Leafs at MLG were as follows:
> 
> Gray seat $1
> Green seat $2
> ...


Based on some very brief research, the the most recent data I could find would put the average weekly wage in Toronto somewhere in the vicinity of $950. Ontario is reported at ~$49k a year as of 2014, so probably a bit higher now. Let's say $50k just for a nice round number. That's $961/week.

Then I went to Ticketmaster and clicked on a random game (turned out to be San Jose Sharks). Tickets go from $55 to $420, which works out to about 6% for a cheap seat up to nearly 50% for the best seats to see a Stanley Cup finalist team.

So yes, tickets are disproportionately more expensive than they were in 1960.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

And in 1960 there was no sales tax either. It was the next year that a 3% sales tax was levied.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Lost interest. 

I used to watch when I was younger but then they expanded and it got hard to remember the players. Then they expanded and there was no way to remember them. 

I think the breaking point for me was The Ducks becoming a reality. Haven't watched a game since. It became a too ridiculous money grubbing scheme all through the sport, and most "pro" sports also. I hardly watch any sports any more including the Olympics (how friggin boring). Unless, of course, there are wheels and engines involved.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

See I find wheels going around an oval (500 times) more boring than a fast paced hard hitting hockey game. 
Obviously there is a generation gap playing a roll here as well but still I dont give a crap about remembering names, unless its my own. Wish I was around in the sixties and seventies but more for the music (and high quality lsd, so hard to find/trust these days) than hockey. 

I agree about the seats; Leafs tickets aren't even a discussion anymore unless they are playing in Buffalo. We can go for a game in Buffalo with $200 and get tickets off the street, some wings and beer at washington square and pay for parking with possibly enough to get us back over the border (depends how much beer I drink lol). Beer/food at any event is overpriced so I'm used to that. Its even trickled down to the OHL, last icedogs game I saw I think it was 8 bucks for a king can.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mrmatt1972 said:


> I gave up on hockey a long time ago. Too many teams, too much time wasted watching.


If we're somewhere, like the casino, and there is a game on while we're having supper and it's the Canucks I might watch a bit but that's about it.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Moosehead said:


> See I find wheels going around an oval (500 times) more boring than a fast paced hard hitting hockey game.
> Obviously there is a generation gap playing a roll here as well but still I dont give a crap about remembering names, unless its my own. Wish I was around in the sixties and seventies but more for the music (and high quality lsd, so hard to find/trust these days) than hockey.
> 
> I agree about the seats; Leafs tickets aren't even a discussion anymore unless they are playing in Buffalo. We can go for a game in Buffalo with $200 and get tickets off the street, some wings and beer at washington square and pay for parking with possibly enough to get us back over the border (depends how much beer I drink lol). Beer/food at any event is overpriced so I'm used to that. Its even trickled down to the OHL, last icedogs game I saw I think it was 8 bucks for a king can.


If you around in the 60's and 70's you have a hard time remembering a lot of it because of the good drugs at the good concerts.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Once upon a time the owners kept the bulk of the revenue & the players made little--then some started getting more & more players wanted more--well the owners still wanted their cut so up went ticket prices.
So players wanted more--and so on.
Both owners & players have caused this to escalate.

Of course some increase is expected as other costs go up--but most teams either control or have a hand int he concessions--and those prices keep going up too.

They need to scale everything back across the board-especially when the economy is poor.
Toronto might be an exception as the on ice product doesn't seem to matter
Although even that seems to be changing.

Will the extra coin gained from expansion fees for Vegas mean other owners lower prices due to more revenue? or will it go in their pockets?
yes they have rising costs as well--but it is not equitable.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

And once upon a time if a player was not working hard, or causing morale problems, or disobeying team rules, he could be traded or sent down to the AHL. Today with no trade, and no demotion clauses in many contracts, the team is stuck with the player throughout the length of his contract, and again the fans suffer.


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

If you are a Rush fan and happen to read this around Hockey HOF time, listen to Eric Lindros being interviewed. He reminds me of Alex Lifeson in tone, laugh and humour. Interesting.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Krelf said:


> And once upon a time if a player was not working hard, or causing morale problems, or disobeying team rules, he could be traded or sent down to the AHL. Today with no trade, and no demotion clauses in many contracts, the team is stuck with the player throughout the length of his contract, and again the fans suffer.


oh, management and players still find ways to stick it to each other.
Jonathan Drouin and Joffrey Lupul come to mind.
To us, it seems like a pretty sweet gig if a player doesn't play...but every game they sit diminishes their value for their next contract, not to mention impact on ego and reduced time to try to set records/win the cup.
But ya, no trade clauses and even worse, long contracts, are the bane of the sport.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I think the last hockey game I watched on TV was the Habs Stanley cup win in 1986. I was reading an article the other day that the NFL is way down on viewers this year. I have not paid for to go to a sporting event in some time as well. Went to a few Raptors games a few years ago but those prices are getting obscene.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

The NHL lost me around 1990. One ref and he missed most of the game. I hear they've improved that situation, but I don't miss it.

It's also worth noting that hockey does not equal NHL. I very much enjoy the junior tournament between xmas and New Years. _That's hockey!_


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> It's also worth noting that hockey does not equal NHL. I very much enjoy the junior tournament between xmas and New Years. _That's hockey!_


I've caught some of the games the last couple of years--there were some real good games--often the international games can be like that--like allstar games, but with hitting


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