# Paying My Dues



## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

Forty years ago, G-major defeated me. I was limited to decades of banging out barre chords up and down the neck. Back to the beginning.

Past several days spent on hundreds of repetitions...making smooth transitions between G, C and D. Suddenly my fingers seemed to fall into place. The open G-major chord is now easy!


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

and if you put another 10k hours of effective practice you will become great player. 

Joking aside, you discovered the effective practice recipe! Repeat until is easy 
To cite Hancock from the movie "Good Job"


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

Thanks!


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

rhh7 said:


> Forty years ago, G-major defeated me. I was limited to decades of banging out barre chords up and down the neck. Back to the beginning.
> 
> Past several days spent on hundreds of repetitions...making smooth transitions between G, C and D. Suddenly my fingers seemed to fall into place. The open G-major chord is now easy!


I thought it was only me with this issue! I started learning 3 years ago and never got the open G. It took me a year to get barre chords and now here I am doing major and minor barre chords everywhere but I can't do open GCD!
You've I aspired me to make it a goal to be able to do this sooner rather then never. 
Camp fire signs are only 3 chords away...


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2019)

Do you use 2 fingers on the high e and b strings?


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Player99 said:


> Do you use 2 fingers on the high e and b strings?


The left one. I can make the chord, but I cant move to or from it very smoothly. I know ..... I need to sit and just do it 100 times or more....
That's actually how I got the switch from barre G on the 6th string to barre C on the 5th. I repeated that move every night for a week.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

As the old joke goes
Q - how do you get to Carnegie Hall??
A - practice, lots of practice

I am just starting this repetition stage in my learning. Seems boring and drawn out........but the end result is worth the monotony.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

I think I learned that one without the index. I think I was showed that way so you were already set up for barre? Now I can do either easily. (but that's about all  )


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I learned to play G differently. Third finger on the low E string, second finger on the A string, and my fourth finger (pinky) holding down both the B and high E in a little barre.
Makes changes a breeze. To Whoever taught me that way of making a G, thank you.

pardon the old man fingers








I've got a real funky A chord too. Barre the first 4 strings on the second fret with your first finger, stretch your pinky all the way up to the 5th fret on the first string. Anybody else doing that one?


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I’m glad I started doing this in grade five when I had nuthin else to do. I don’t think I could put up with it now ... lol


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Wardo said:


> I’m glad I started doing this in grade five when I had nuthin else to do. I don’t think I could put up with it now ... lol


I wish! ....I started at 50... with 3 kids in competitive sports..it's not easy but I can blame "age" for my taking over a year to get to doing barre chords.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

I watched two videos during a lunch break years ago. One guy was all over the neck with fancy fingering, the other guy used one or two fingers throughout, with a third when required. The simple fingering produced much better music and I have been working on the easiest possible techniques ever since. Fancy is great for practice, as it builds knowledge, but fancy is unnecessary for entertainment. My number one rule now is: what can I leave out?


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

KapnKrunch said:


> I watched two videos during a lunch break years ago. One guy was all over the neck with fancy fingering, the other guy used one or two fingers throughout, with a third when required. The simple fingering produced much better music and I have been working on the easiest possible techniques ever since. Fancy is great for practice, as it builds knowledge, but fancy is unnecessary for entertainment. My number one rule now is: what can I leave out?


I've been known to get lazy from time to time and play a Bm with only 3 fingers. Don't tell anybody, or they'll kick me outta this place.


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

Django Reinhardt essentially used only his fretting hand thumb and first two fingers. His ring finger and pinkie were badly injured in a fire.


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## old and tryin (Mar 27, 2019)

I can do a G ok. The transition between G and C is not great...but I run screaming like a girl at bar chords...just cant get them.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

old and tryin said:


> I can do a G ok. The transition between G and C is not great...but I run screaming like a girl at bar chords...just cant get them.


How's your F coming along?


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## old and tryin (Mar 27, 2019)

Lincoln said:


> How's your F coming along?


That's one I usually run from...one of them anyway.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I wanna see a full bar FM7 from you guys by the end of the week ... lol


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## old and tryin (Mar 27, 2019)

Wardo said:


> I wanna see a full bar FM7 from you guys by the end of the week ... lol


That just sounds complicated


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

old and tryin said:


> That just sounds complicated


Not complicated but it’s usually a tough one to nail for most particularly on an acoustic guitar.


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## old and tryin (Mar 27, 2019)

Wardo said:


> Not complicated but it’s usually a tough one to nail for most particularly on an acoustic guitar.


What would it be used in? As in type of music?


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

old and tryin said:


> What would it be used in? As in type of music?


Where you want the full roar of the chord as opposed to a partial. I use it on St James Infirmary Blues with an acoustic guitar.

You can play the same chord different ways all over the neck but find out about partial chords and also for bar chords you can wrap your thumb rather than using your index finger.

There’s people here who can give better advice than me. My specialty is derailing threads and such so listening to what I say might get you started on the wrong path ... lol


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## old and tryin (Mar 27, 2019)

Wardo said:


> Where you want the full roar of the chord as opposed to a partial. I use it on St James Infirmary Blues with an acoustic guitar.
> 
> You can play the same chord different ways all over the neck but find out about partial chords and also for bar chords you can wrap your thumb rather than using your index finger.
> 
> There’s people here who can give better advice than me. My specialty is derailing threads and such so listening to what I say might get started on the wrong path ... lol


I think any path is better than no path


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

old and tryin said:


> That's one I usually run from...one of them anyway.


Keep at it. The F is very important shape to learn. It will come in time, don't give up.


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## old and tryin (Mar 27, 2019)

Just trying to get used to the smaller neck. The chords I am practicing, trying to get back to at least where I used to be...which was still a beginner, but a beginner with better changing few 'basic" chords


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Inspiration?


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## old and tryin (Mar 27, 2019)

Lincoln said:


> Inspiration?


Very much so, I guess there is hope for me yet.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

old and tryin said:


> That just sounds complicated


With good left hand technique, its exactly the same as other shapes in terms of difficulty. Watch you thumb position and it will get significantly easier.

Outside of jazz, its tough to use... That major 7 is fairly tense and wants to move quickly. Not what I would call a pop radio chord .

C


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

old and tryin said:


> What would it be used in? As in type of music?


The Major Seventh is a wonderful chord that creates instant ambience for many styles of music. Many of the ways of fingering the Major Seventh suggest jazz to people, however, let's look at the easiest way for a beginner to make a Major Seventh and you will see that, as evocative as it is, it certainly is versatile to many styles. 

*Form your normal beginner C chord. 

Remove your first finger from the first fret of the B (second skinniest) string and play the open B string when you strum the rest of your normal C chord*.

Sounds wonderful doesn't it? This is the magic of the Major Seventh chord. You have simply made the three-note C chord into a four-note C chord. 

One extra harmony. 

This can be done with all chords in any scale, but a simple knowledge of musical theory (to Grade Two) is necessary for you to make the correct adjustments to get the four-part harmony throughout the scale. Sounds jazzy to some, but that jazz that we think we are hearing in these chords is simply made from popular songs that were written by people who understood harmony in chords beyond three parts. 

Theory will help you create your own music. If you want to copy, just go to YouTube.


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## old and tryin (Mar 27, 2019)

I understand removing the finger. I understand what two strings I am using.

I don't understand how removing one of my three fingers makes it a four note chord...i want to understand.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

KapnKrunch said:


> The Major Seventh is a wonderful chord that creates instant ambience for many styles of music. Many of the ways of fingering the Major Seventh suggest jazz to people, however, let's look at the easiest way for a beginner to make a Major Seventh and you will see that, as evocative as it is, it certainly is versatile to many styles.
> 
> *Form your normal beginner C chord.
> 
> ...


The amazing thing about math is that it can be used to prove multiple things concurrently from the same question. When you think about it as harmony (as above), lots of stuff can happen. 

To try and answer your Q, it was three notes because you had XCEGCe (the notes on the strings, if you made a sketch of the C chord, X is the E string unplayed) and when you lifted the C on the B string, you added a B, which wasn't there before, now you have XCEGBe, four distinct notes where you had three distinct notes before (because the C was repeated).​
This is a little deeper and may push you to learn chord building - An alternate view of why this sounds awesome is because you are also playing an em chord ON TOP of the C, which in the key C has a heavy Phrygian feel and sound because of the tight steps between the B and C. If you look at the notes you are playing, you have both the c triad like you did before (CEG) but you also have the em triad (EGB) stacked on top.

But, I still feel that my reply a couple posts above is more accurate (to my ears) which is the C leading tone is the M7, and without the ability to resolve it really wants to take yo somewhere. I suspect that's why it is heavily used in jazz, because jazz melodies are traditionally very driven (for lack of a better term). I suspect its also why I don't hear many on the radio.

As KapnKrunch said, in the right hands the M7 or m7 can be a beautiful thing. Not my hands yet, but maybe someday. If you want to hear it in radio play rock, im sure there are lots of examples (steely Dan etc), but the pre chorus for Neil Youngs Down By The River (the she can drag me over the rainbow part) which has both a M7 and a m7 alternating.

C


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Fabulous use of the Major Seventh! And other colourings!! Every time I return to this song I can't believe how bad I am butchering it. I love the way she selects the exact best note to sing with each chord.


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2019)

old and tryin said:


> I don't understand how removing one of my three fingers makes it a four note chord...i want to understand.


Using the diagram below, the 3 note C chord is C (3), E (2), G (open string) and C again (1).
You're playing C twice, so, 3 note chord.
When you lift your finger off of #1 (C), it now becomes a B (open string).
4 note chord is now C, E, G, B.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

old and tryin said:


> I understand removing the finger. I understand what two strings I am using.
> 
> I don't understand how removing one of my three fingers makes it a four note chord...i want to understand.


Somehow I "liked" your comment and failed see your question. Excellent answer @laristotle


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## old and tryin (Mar 27, 2019)

laristotle said:


> Using the diagram below, the 3 note C chord is C (3), E (2), G (open string) and C again (1).
> You're playing C twice, so, 3 note chord.
> When you lift your finger off of #1 (C), it now becomes a B (open string).
> 4 note chord is now C, E, G, B.


I like visual. Makes sense.


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