# Manners - A Changing View



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

How do you view the situations below regarding manners? Do you think manners are important?

*Top questions on manners*

When is it rude to use your mobile phone?
Can you smoke e-cigarettes at work?
How do you kiss someone socially?
Can you eat and do your make-up on public transport?
Can you recline your seat on aeroplanes?
When should you give your seat up on public transport?
Is it okay to blind copy (bcc) someone into an email?
Can you eat before everyone has been served?


http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-29726439


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

18 views and no comments. How rude.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

When it comes to cell phones, there's one thing that really bugs me.

It is NEVER acceptable to take a call in a public washroom or in a locker room.

I had a guy cell yelling in the stall next to me today in the Atlanta airport.

I actually said "do you mind?". Then I hear, "sorry, got to go baby".

As for the locker rooms, I've seen guys sitting right beside the big sign advising all members that use of cell phones is strictly forbidden.

I leave mine in the car when I hit the gym.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

There is only one answer to all the questions - have some common sense and respect the people around you. Far too many people not only ignore that, but they even take affront if you politely point out the things they should have learned by the time they got to kindergarten. I don't even bother any more. Rudeness and ignorance is just too pervasive to get upset about it.


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> How do you view the situations below regarding manners? Do you think manners are important?
> 
> *Top questions on manners*
> 
> ...


It's rude to use your when your sleeping
What are e cigs. and what the hell is work
Bend the lady over backwards and give her a big one right on the lips
I can eat on public transport but no damn way I putting my make up on while riding a bus, people might laugh and it would end up all crooked
If it's a reclining seat I would assume so, otherwise I don't think you should try 
When the guy beside stinks like a garbage can
Saying blind is not politically correct and may be offensive to some people it should be visually challenged 
You should eat when your hungry no sense waiting for the slow pokes

I think that takes care of all the issues

:sEm_ImSorry::smiley-faces-75:


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I'll let a few rude things slide but people who lie and think they are better than everyone else are the worst.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

May I add one?

Is it appropriate to address a person you don't know well by their first name?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

boyscout said:


> May I add one?
> 
> Is it appropriate to address a person you don't know well by their first name?


It's become that way.
seems "mr. " or "mrs" only gets used in a)either a sales context where a salesperson is grovelling to you, or b)when the other person is much older.
and as I've recently discovered now that my daughter started school, between teachers and students/parents.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Milkman said:


> When it comes to cell phones, there's one thing that really bugs me.
> 
> It is NEVER acceptable to take a call in a public washroom or in a locker room.
> 
> ...


Uhhh really? I don't get it (and I'm normally pretty sensitive to manners stuff). Why? The locker room and the toilet aren't exactly the movie theatre or a formal dinner. I've sat on a public crapper carrying on a conversation lots of times lol, never thought twice about it other than maybe worrying about a rude noise carrying over the line :Smiley-fart: Locker room I would think would be even more wide open to a phone conversation.....unless you're worried about someone taking camera pics, then I get the reservation.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

For me personally, I don't like to be subjected to listening to 1/2 of some stranger's stupid conversation when I can't just walk away - especially a 'loud talker'.

I sometimes fantasize standing beside them singing 'O Canada' in my terrible voice at the top of my lungs. Why should my patriotism bother anybody? :smile-new:


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

keto said:


> Uhhh really? I don't get it (and I'm normally pretty sensitive to manners stuff). Why? The locker room and the toilet aren't exactly the movie theatre or a formal dinner. I've sat on a public crapper carrying on a conversation lots of times lol, never thought twice about it other than maybe worrying about a rude noise carrying over the line :Smiley-fart: Locker room I would think would be even more wide open to a phone conversation.....unless you're worried about someone taking camera pics, then I get the reservation.



As almost all cell phones have cameras, that's enough reason right there for their use to be avoided in washrooms.

If that's not enough, do you really want to hear someone chatting with their girlfriend a foot from where you're sitting (or standing) doing your business?

Well, to me it's rude and completely unnecessary.

As for the locker room, there are guys walking around naked. I'm surprised I have to explain why having camera phones out is not right.


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## donkelley (Oct 2, 2013)

Steadfastly said:


> How do you view the situations below regarding manners? Do you think manners are important?
> 
> *Top questions on manners*
> 
> ...


Answers inline (expand quote above)

What shocks me these days is how few were taught these basic social rules growing up


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## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

What about these philistines who refuse to doff their hats in the presence of a lady?
Preposterous swine I say.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Fader said:


> What about these philistines who refuse to doff their hats in the presence of a lady?
> Preposterous swine I say.


Hah! That's nothing! A woman tried to hold a door for *me*! I think I sprained her wrist wrestling the door away from her. Of course I apologized profusely, but certain acts are just not cricket.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

vadsy said:


> I'll let a few rude things slide but people who lie and think they are better than everyone else are the worst.


I've found, in the many years leading to my current superior wisdom ( :smile-new: ), that people like that are really quite insecure and even fragile when confronted. Somehow, they feel they can't meet the standard of what is they think is required of them, so they act out in an exaggerated way to prove to the world that they are worthy of respect. And sometimes people just need to put down others to raise themselves up in their own minds. They are like the school bully who breaks down and cries when he gets 'pantsed' in front of his peers.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I think one needs to start at the beginning, by asking where "manners" come from, and what purpose they are intended to serve.

I'll take a slight detour, and look at this from a contemporary example. In the wake of last week's events in St. Jean and Ottawa, members of Canadian Forces were asked to not wear their uniforms. Now, if you are in downtown Ottawa, or anywhere that has a military base, one of the regular sights you'll see is members of the Forces saluting each other as they pass on the street. The uniform conveys indicators of rank, and the salute (and information used to prompt it) is part of the internal culture that all militaries rely on to maintain cooperation, compliance, and respect. If I'm your superior (and thank goodness I'm not!), and you salute me, then the world is in order, and I have every confidence it will be when I need it.

As you can imagine, many objected to this call to de-uniform, not just because they are proud of their affiliation and don't wish to conceal it, but because, in their minds, it compromises the social order needed for the military to function.

"Manners" are something that all tribal cultures have relied on to maintain order and facilitate social predictability. They are the good fences that make good neighbours. The customs attached to manners may in themselves, begin to lose meaning over time, as technology, fashion, demographics, socio-economic structure, change. But perhaps more importantly, as something that essentially evolved to bring social coherence to a_ tribe_, manners start to lose all meaning and value to people when we live in the anonymity of a city. The person who elects to start discussing, rather loudly, their dissatisfactory child custody arrangements with their lawyer, while on the bus, seated beside or across from me (something I've witnessed), does not view me as someone whom they need to keep things quiet from. I am a faceless person in the city, and the anonymity allows the person to abandon any sense of shame or consequence. In the absence of shame or consequence, manners become moot.

We have not only migrated to larger cities where peaceful co-existence and reputation-management via manners has diminished in perceived importance, but we have also moved towards what Margaret Mead called a "pre-figurative culture" (what I like to call "the adolo-centric society") in which what "grownups" have to tell us (and from whom manners are acquired) is considered to be irrelevant, because it is not new enough.

Then there is the manner in which technology increasingly serves the tendency toward impatience and impetuousness. If my meal can be personally-selected and microwaved, then I don't have to come to the table with everyone else, or wait until dinner is served. If my phone is my own, and my number is equated with me, personally, rather than a location where a number of individuals might pick up, I have no reason to ever learn the phrase "Hello, may I please speak to....".


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

boyscout said:


> May I add one?
> 
> Is it appropriate to address a person you don't know well by their first name?


I prefer that. I do not like being called sir or Mr. I know it is sometimes done out of good manners and respect but I prefer people to use my name, rather than a title. It's just friendlier that way.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I prefer to be a peer, so the only people I want to call me "Dr. Hammer" are folks who are paying me, or introducing me to an audience, where the title sets the pay scale or establishes a bit of decorum in a room. Other than that, I'm Mark. I guess it is my sometimes stern "fogey" manner of speaking, but I'm surprised by how many people on line refer to me as "Mr. Hammer". Weird.

Having said that, one thing I could never get used to during my time in St. John's was how any male seemed to be able to refer to any other male, regardless of the size or direction of the age difference, as "my son" (pronounced more like "moy suhn"). Ask a 12 year-old how to get to a certain street, and you hear him say "Well, my son, ya goes about t'ree streets dat way.."


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

*When is it rude to use your mobile phone?*
_in a resturaunt, on a bus, while you're on the toilet. i don't buy the locker room thing. just cause my phone has a camera doesn't mean i want to snap pics of your willie. the law says i'm innocent until proven guilty. i try to avoid public calls altogether but if i were to be in a gym locker room,and got a call i felt i needed to take, then i'd quietly take it, and make it brief. not because i might disturb someone, but because i don't want people listening to my conversation with someone else. _
*Can you smoke e-cigarettes at work?*
_i do construction. i work with guys who will smoke actual cigs at the lunch table while i'm eating, knowing i don't smoke. and it's illegal. but as far as e-cigs go? i don't see an issue. there's no scent. it's just vapor, so there's no second hand risk. _
*How do you kiss someone socially?*
_i don't kiss anyone except my wife. if someone forces me into it, i try to politely assume a posture of do not want. same with hugs. wanna handshake? cool. otherwise i don't like people touching me._
*Can you eat and do your make-up on public transport?*
_yes, as long as you keep it to simple foods that don't have a heavy scent. you wanna have some fries/chips/other bag snack? that's cool. any food that requires utensils is off limits. foods with a heavy scent are off limits. leaving crums, spilling things, etc. not cool. they sell pizza on the subway, as well as other snacks. if the ttc endorses it, it's ok. do your make up, but confine yourself to your seat only. _
*Can you recline your seat on aeroplanes?*
_of course! that's why they make 'em that way. if the guy behand you cant hack it he shoulda flew first class or gotten the seat by the emergency door. _
*When should you give your seat up on public transport?*
_for anyone who has difficulty with their balance, with obvious injury, old folks, handicappers, pregos. HOWEVER as someone who gets around on public transportation, i would like to point out a few things that bug the shit outta me. if you're carrying a backpack, take it off and put it at your feet. i don't want that thing swinging past my face while i'm sitting down minding my own. i will let you know with a quickness exactly where that bag is going if it hits me twice. if you're under 30, healthy, and go to school or work in an office, give your seat to someone who worked their ass off that day, or is over 40. if you have a bundle buggy or a stroller, stay off the ttc during rush hour. you're lucky you don't have to pay a fare commensurate with the amount of space you take up. if you are under 25, you should NEVER sit in the priority seating area EVER. confine yourself to your seat. do not touch other people unless it's unavoidable._
*Is it okay to blind copy (bcc) someone into an email?*
_under certain circumstances, of course. i can think of several right off the top of my head. let's say some asshole is harrassing my wife @ work. if she replies that way, she can let people physically see what is going on instead of dealing with the initial he said/she said, and the games that are sure to follow. _
*Can you eat before everyone has been served?*
_at mcdonlad's? sure. at a resturaunt that actually serves your table? no. at home, yes, as long as it's just family. if there are guests, then no._


i wanna add a few. 
scents- some folks bathe in their fav fragrance. it's cloying and makes me want to throw up. 
other folks just don't seem to believe in hygene or maybe just not deodorant. i think those people are rude. their smell is disgusting and usually can be avoided with minimal effort. 
loud motorcycles, cars, car stereos. those people suck. their noise is a selfish invasion of the personal space of others. they should be ashamed, but they're too selfish. or too stupid.
not picking up your dogshit, except on days where the weather is really terrible, like thunderstorms or polar vortex days. you should see what the lawn looks like here when the snow melts.

you folks are sooo lucky i'm here to set things straight. hahahahaha


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

mhammer said:


> ...In the absence of shame or consequence, manners become moot...


^^^absolutely brilliant. I trust this is your quote. May I use it in the future?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Well, I'm not on call as an ER surgeon so I figure any call I need to take or make can bloody wait for an hour while I work out and surely can also wait for two minutes while I relieve myself.

But hey, I guess there are people who's calls are much more urgent than mine.

Really I like the peace and quiet. It's not an inconvenience for me to not use my phone in the gym. It's a relief.

As for E-cigs, the exhaled byproduct may be vapor but it still contains chemicals and we don't allow them in our office.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Swervin55 said:


> ^^^absolutely brilliant. I trust this is your quote. May I use it in the future?


As far as I know, it's words out of my mouth, rather than someone else (and if I inadvertently copied/replicated anyone, let me know). But by all means use away! And thanks for the nod.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

As for reclining airplane seats, I despise them. When I'm on a Westjet flight sitting with my back firmly against the seat and my knees are still touching the seat in front of me, I DO NOT appreciate the person in front of me reclining their seat. It makes for a miserable flight for me - especially when I try to put down my tray. The seats recline so little anyway, I don't know how it makes one more comfortable. When I try reclining my seat, it just seems like my ass is sliding out from under me.

Oh yes, and as cheezy pointed out, loud bikes roaring past my window or, worse idling outside my window. Riders say it's a safety issue so cars know they are there. Bullshit. Get an air horn or something. When a bike is that loud, the sound is everywhere and nobody can tell how close it actually is or what direction it is coming from.

Whew, I feel better now I got that off my chest...


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## stringer (Jun 17, 2009)

How do you view the situations below regarding manners? Do you think manners are important?

*Top questions on manners*

When is it rude to use your mobile phone?
When you're already talking so someone, the movies, a funeral, wedding you get the idea.



Can you smoke e-cigarettes at work?
If the vapor is harmless then no foul, but if it is harmful then cut it out 'till you're alone.



How do you kiss someone socially?
A quick peck. Tongue kissing and heavy petting in public is inappropriate.



Can you eat and do your make-up on public transport?
hmmm... I think this one will be polarizing. I've got no problem with it. We did have a fella at work that would eat during meetings and it was agreed by all that that was rude.



Can you recline your seat on aeroplanes?
You can, but I rarely do and I fell guilty when I do.



When should you give your seat up on public transport?
When there is obviously someone suffering from physical malady that is exacerbated by them standing while at the same time you are fine. Also if they are your elders by 20 or so years and they are in the 65 and up range.



Is it okay to blind copy (bcc) someone into an email?
No opinion. I think it would depend on the nature of the email.



Can you eat before everyone has been served?
Absolutely not!! Very rude.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

*Top questions on manners*

When is it rude to use your mobile phone?
 -in the company of others, at the dinner table, during conversation, in line at the store. basically any time another person requires your attention. 


Can you smoke e-cigarettes at work?
 -if there is no smell, i dont care.


How do you kiss someone socially?
 -not sure what you mean by this. public displays of affection? 


Can you eat and do your make-up on public transport?
 -make-up, sure who cares. you're not making any noise or bothering anyone. food same thing. as long as its relatively low noise and creates no odour who cares?


Can you recline your seat on aeroplanes?
 -I generally don't. if its a small person or a sleeping person behind me I might. I get rather annoyed when people recline in front of me if i'm doing work on a laptop. if im just wtching the tv screen i could care less, but im a small guy.


When should you give your seat up on public transport?
 -give it to the elderly. i would even go as far as kids and always for hot women in heels.


Is it okay to blind copy (bcc) someone into an email?
 -yes.


Can you eat before everyone has been served?
 -if someone ate before everyone was served I wouldnt really care. if youre the last to recieve food is rude to make everyone wait? i find most people will say go ahead and start, dont wait for me etc.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-29726439


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

mhammer said:


> I prefer to be a peer, so the only people I want to call me "*Dr. Hammer*" are folks who are paying me, or introducing me to an audience, where the title sets the pay scale or establishes a bit of decorum in a room. Other than that, I'm Mark. I guess it is my sometimes stern "fogey" manner of speaking, but I'm surprised by how many people on line refer to me as "Mr. Hammer". Weird.
> "


That's a great adult movie star name.

Could you do me the HUGEST solid, and remember I wrote this the next time someone calls you that?


Sent from from my poor judgement using no filter.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Well, if I wasn't already appearing under the name "Nads Swively", that would certainly run a close second, so thanks for the idea.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

vadsy said:


> I'll let a few rude things slide but people who lie and think they are better than everyone else are the worst.


This sums it up for me. I don't like people who feel they are above everyone else. 

Since I don't have the above noted personality, I feel that people who find me rude _are_ rude. I don't like it when someone tries to impose manners on me. 

I firmly believe in that "do unto others...", but, if I'm kinda lax on the manners thing, then what? You wanna talk on the phone near me? Cool. I totally don't give a shit about you and what you do, so I am completely impartial. It really comes down to each of our tolerances, I think.

You know what I find rude? When strangers find themselves in close proximity, and don't say a fucking word. We're both in a Goddamn elevator for f sakes. HELLO??????? Even ants touch their antennas. AND, to prove that people yearn for interaction - how many times have you been at an all-inclusive resort and you can't shut the fuck up - every one is talking to everyone. That's the way life should be. I guess you're all in shitty moods or something.

And for me, picking up my cell phone is an absolute must. Anywhere and everywhere. I do a lot of emergency service type stuff. But, I am one of the few people who can control their volume. That in itself is an issue, cause people think I'm talking to them, but at least I'm not the loud douche talking about stock prices, etc.

Further, I have two websites with different phone numbers. On occasion, I'll get a call from one site and no voicemail, I'll grab the next call from the same caller calling from the other website and make the sale. So, the time I only get one call, if I don't pick up, I could be tossing money away.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Ummmm... what does one say to a stranger on an elevator besides vapid small talk? I mean, I feel free to comment on a common experience when everyone looks at each other after an odoriferous individual gets off or I feel an urge to compliment on someone's cool jacket or something is in order. But I have no problem with silence if no one has anything interesting to say.

And I think it's perfectly understandable when a business person takes a call anywhere as long as they keep it as discreet as possible. But when I hear things like "tell that goddam son of a bitch to get his ass in gear or I'm gonna fucking fire his ass" or "yes, his portfolio is worth 50 mil but blah blah blah...", I don't want to be subjected to that. It's the inane personal chatting that really annoys me when I can't just walk away. How hard is it to just tell a caller "I'm on the elevator (bus, Timmy's line, etc.) right now. Can you hang on for a minute or call you back shortly?"

Or when a store clerk insists on taking a personal call while I am the customer in front of them and treat me like I'm on television or something, I do let them know with a glare that I don't appreciate being treated like an inanimate object.

This compulsion to be in constant contact with friends and on top of up to the second updates with everything else in the world while oblivious to the real life around you is baffling to me.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Well, do recognize that there are cultural differences in conversational and interaction styles.

When I started teaching First Nation students on Vancouver Island, the silence drove me crazy. I interpreted it as reflecting a non-response, and felt compelled to fill in the dead air. Then a teaching colleague told me it was simply customary among First Nations people in the region to a) not interrupt perceived authority figures, and b) wait 20-30 seconds (or more) before replying to a question, as a sign of respect. Once I started complying with this principle, things went along MUCH smoother. But until I got the hang of it, my rapport with Aboriginal students was poor, because I wasn't affording them the time to show good manners.

Folks who specialize in the psychology and cultural anthropology of job interviews will tell you that not only Aboriginal people, but many East Asian peoples are frequently penalized in such situations, because they are unaccustomed to the (perceived) public self-agrandisement that is essential to a successful job interview.Modesty at all costs, and that modesty translates into silence.

That's the thing about "manners": it/they can be VERY culturally and regionally specific.

I remember well travelling through Wisconsin with my sister some 30 years back. We stopped at several eateries and retail places along the way, and the regional use of "Mmm-hmmm" instead of "You're welcome" drove me batty. "Could I have some ketchup?", "Here you go.", "Why, thank you!", "Mmm-hmm". Had I done something wrong? Was EVERY single waitress in the entire state a snarky smarmy jerk? Nope, it was just a regional style of manners.

And then there's prosopagnosia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosopagnosia ). You'll sometimes read about these cases, and the patient find finds themselves running into trouble because they simply don't recognize people until they hear the person's voice. And if you're smiling at them silently, in a manner to potentially initiate conversation, they'll just walk right by you, as if you're a complete stranger.

Bah! Humans are weird little buggers.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

bluzfish said:


> Ummmm... what does one say to a stranger on an elevator besides vapid small talk? I mean, I feel free to comment on a common experience when everyone looks at each other after an odoriferous individual gets off or I feel an urge to compliment on someone's cool jacket or something is in order. But I have no problem with silence if no one has anything interesting to say.
> 
> And I think it's perfectly understandable when a business person takes a call anywhere as long as they keep it as discreet as possible. But when I hear things like "tell that goddam son of a bitch to get his ass in gear or I'm gonna fucking fire his ass" or "yes, his portfolio is worth 50 mil but blah blah blah...", I don't want to be subjected to that. It's the inane personal chatting that really annoys me when I can't just walk away. How hard is it to just tell a caller "I'm on the elevator (bus, Timmy's line, etc.) right now. Can you hang on for a minute or call you back shortly?"


I once told a lady that we were fortunate to be riding in such a luxurious elevator and to admire the size. It was a hospital. We couldn't contain ourselves after that - it was so weird and out of left field.

I don't expect everyone to talk as much as I do, but I think it's nice to say hi when it seems right. 

I was in Cosmo music and I saw a guy pick up an anderson tele and wail away. I stared at him and said 'that guy makes some serious guitars'. Then I pointed to an anderson strat and told him that is one of the nicest guitars in the room. We chatted and then I went on with my business. I'm pretty sure a lot of us can relate to this kind of interaction.

I happen to see "guitars" in every day life. I can pick things out quite easily in most circumstances and make light of it, and people seem to appreciate it. It breaks barriers that I don't think ever should have been constructed to begin with. I never lived in the olden days, but I always believed that this behaviour was a big part of them. Small town vibe, I guess. I always try to create it.

Just 3 hours ago I was pumping gas and this landscaper was on the opposite side of my pump. The gas was pumping slower than I have ever experienced. I looked at the landscaper and yelled, " I can't!!!" this pump is killing me". It won. I gotta go...." He said, "yeah man, I was thinking the same thing" And we laughed. And I left. And it was nice.

---------------

As for the phone calls: I am as discreet as possible. I literally have to take these calls. If I don't, it's like throwing money away.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

In fact, I do like interacting with strangers, especially with well timed humour, although I am perfectly comfortable with my own silent thoughts. I always seem to be the guy that people I don't know strike up a conversation with like I am their best friend. Although sometimes annoying, I am rarely rude and patiently listen, even if at times, in my mind I am eagerly anticipating the moment I can get away from them.

Actually, I have met some interesting and entertaining people that I would have never otherwise even given an iota of notice to.

Like the old native guy who sat down beside me on the bus bench one evening. When he first started talking, I was a little annoyed because I was deep in thought at the time. Although he did ask me for money, which I gave him, he regaled me with stories that soon had me rapt with attention. The way he related his personal experiences left me no doubt that what I was hearing was definitely not a load of horse crap to get more money out of me. He was simply happy to have someone to talk to that didn't just treat him like a babbling, worthless old man. He had lived a history that you and I will only ever experience through books and movies. I was actually reluctant to get on the bus when it finally came. I wanted to hear more.

So if I would have been rude and dismissed this raggedy, withered old beggar, I would have missed meeting one of the most fascinating people I have ever met.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Diablo said:


> It's become that way.
> seems "mr. " or "mrs" only gets used in a)either a sales context where a salesperson is grovelling to you, or b)when the other person is much older.
> and as I've recently discovered now that my daughter started school, between teachers and students/parents.


C: by a member of some law enforcement group..intermingled with a sarcastic 'sir' r two.


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## Option1 (May 26, 2012)

When is it rude to use your mobile phone?

Restraunts, toilets, and since that unfortunate incident, while ironing. 

Can you smoke e-cigarettes at work?

Nah, I gave up smokes, so every other bugger should suffer just as I've had to! 

How do you kiss someone socially?


Women - attractive: Tongue, try to avoid grabbing boob, but grabbing the arse is in play.
Women - unattractive: cheek peck followed by excuse me I think I see someone I know over there...
Men - attractive/unattractive: I don't, socially, unless it's a reunion of the boys from the Blue Oyster Bar...
 
Can you eat and do your make-up on public transport?

Eating: Only if the wine is chilled to the correct temperature. 
Make-up: Yes, but it's hard getting the lippie straight. 

Can you recline your seat on aeroplanes?

Sure, but it's best to get the most attractive flight attendant to lean across you to help... 

When should you give your seat up on public transport?

When they take your pillow away so that you can't sleep on the three across seats. 

Is it okay to blind copy (bcc) someone into an email?

Sure, as long as their seeing eye dog doesn't mind. 

Can you eat before everyone has been served? 

Definitely, as long as you remember the vital basic rule that parsley is like pubic hair and should be pushed to one side before eating. 
 
Neil


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## Option1 (May 26, 2012)

While I think of it forgive me for indulging in a slight diversion from the "Can you eat and do your make-up on public transport?" question. I once had a morning train commute where I had the pleasure of observing a woman applying her makeup. When she first got on the train, she looked rough, very very rough, ridden hard put away wet rough! She then began the process, and over the next twenty minutes went from "Not even with yours..." to "Gawd I wish I had the courage to ask for her phone number!" 

I've lived with enough women in my life to know the changes that can take place during morning ablutions, but this was far and away the most dramatic it's been my privilege to witness; and to think it all took place on public transport. 

Neil


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Option1 said:


> While I think of it forgive me for indulging in a slight diversion from the "Can you eat and do your make-up on public transport?" question. I once had a morning train commute where I had the pleasure of observing a woman applying her makeup. When she first got on the train, she looked rough, very very rough, ridden hard put away wet rough! She then began the process, and over the next twenty minutes went from "Not even with yours..." to "Gawd I wish I had the courage to ask for her phone number!"
> 
> I've lived with enough women in my life to know the changes that can take place during morning ablutions, but this was far and away the most dramatic it's been my privilege to witness; and to think it all took place on public transport.
> 
> Neil


While I completely believe you, again I feel like the square peg. Make up, heels and perfume are strikes one, two and three for me.

Maybe that's a result of too many "chew your arm off at the shoulder" mornings after.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

A family friend escaped Europe during the Nazi incursion beyond German borders. He went first to India, and eventually to Japan, before finding his way to Canada. While in Japan, he ended up with his picture in the paper, having been spotted eating an apple in public...on the street. His photo was shown as an illustration of the uncouth Europeans. What nerve!


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

bluzfish said:


> For me personally, I don't like to be subjected to listening to 1/2 of some stranger's stupid conversation when I can't just walk away - especially a 'loud talker'.
> 
> I sometimes fantasize standing beside them singing 'O Canada' in my terrible voice at the top of my lungs. Why should my patriotism bother anybody? :smile-new:


Or you could do this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA1J-raGinQ


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

That got me laughing! Funny stuff. I might get a punch in the face if I actually tried that though...


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## Option1 (May 26, 2012)

Milkman said:


> While I completely believe you, again I feel like the square peg. Make up, heels and perfume are strikes one, two and three for me.
> 
> Maybe that's a result of too many "chew your arm off at the shoulder" mornings after.


I don't think you should feel like the square peg. For me, I love seeing a woman made up to her "best" including clothing, heels, make-up, etc, but I can understand seeing it differently. 

I suspect what's happened is you've arrived at your viewpoint from too many "chew your arm off" mornings, while I've arrived at mine from exactly the same*. 

Neil

* Particularly hated those mornings when they were still attractive, but I couldn't remember their name.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

mhammer said:


> A family friend escaped Europe during the Nazi incursion beyond German borders. He went first to India, and eventually to Japan, before finding his way to Canada. While in Japan, he ended up with his picture in the paper, having been spotted eating an apple in public...on the street. His photo was shown as an illustration of the uncouth Europeans. What nerve!


another one is blowing your nose in public. they view it as we do farts


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

bluzfish said:


> Ummmm... what does one say to a stranger on an elevator besides vapid small talk? I mean, I feel free to comment on a common experience when everyone looks at each other after an odoriferous individual gets off or I feel an urge to compliment on someone's cool jacket or something is in order. But I have no problem with silence if no one has anything interesting to say.
> 
> And I think it's perfectly understandable when a business person takes a call anywhere as long as they keep it as discreet as possible. But when I hear things like "tell that goddam son of a bitch to get his ass in gear or I'm gonna fucking fire his ass" or "yes, his portfolio is worth 50 mil but blah blah blah...", I don't want to be subjected to that. It's the inane personal chatting that really annoys me when I can't just walk away. How hard is it to just tell a caller "I'm on the elevator (bus, Timmy's line, etc.) right now. Can you hang on for a minute or call you back shortly?"
> 
> ...


I have no compulsion to talk to strangers on an elevator or anywhere else unless there is damned good reason to. As far as cell phones, I think it's rude to talk on one near to anyone else. But being realistic about this I know that unless you walk or drive or push your shopping cart into me there isn't too much I can do about it, except perhaps be louder than you are, so most of the time I just ignore the person and the call. If you do walk or drive or push your shopping cart into me when you are talking on your phone I will, all of a sudden, "talk to strangers". If a sales person does take a personal call while dealing with me and someone else doesn't take over from them, I don't glare at them, I just walk away.

- - - Updated - - -



bluzfish said:


> For me personally, I don't like to be subjected to listening to 1/2 of some stranger's stupid conversation when I can't just walk away - especially a 'loud talker'.
> 
> I sometimes fantasize standing beside them singing 'O Canada' in my terrible voice at the top of my lungs. Why should my patriotism bother anybody? :smile-new:


On occasion in cases like this, because I'm 'old', I have been know to break wind, rather loudly.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> How do you view the situations below regarding manners? Do you think manners are important?
> 
> *Top questions on manners*
> 
> ...


1....I answered that somewhere.
2....depends what you're smoking in it.
3....same as drinking socially; I never drank socially. Freddy answered that one.
4....yes
5....yes but I don't fly so it doesn't matter.
6....when the pregnant lady standing in front of you breaks water. 
7....I don't get or send e-mail so no.
8....more than two people, yes. 

I still open doors....for anyone, remove my hat at the table etc..


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> How do you view the situations below regarding manners? Do you think manners are important?
> 
> *Top questions on manners*
> 
> ...


1) when your attention should be focused on someone/something else
2)I don't know much about them. I guess if they pose no health risks to others, or aren't annoying, I wouldn't care. But really, quit or smoke. none of this in between crap. Not sure when as a society we all felt the need to be satisfying every single one of our wants, constantly. Like babies with pacifiers.
3) peck on the cheek for women im friends with. Mafia style kiss of death only for men.
4)eat? only if it isn't smelly/loud...bag of chips, chocolate bar, sure. KFC 2 piece dinner? no. Makeup? sure. It can actually be kind of sexy. So know that as you do it, some men like myself are leering at you and thinking you are putting on makeup in public now because you were up late doing slutty things last night.
5)fuck, I hate airplane seats. so damn uncomfortable. I recline the second I can until the second they make me incline again. ya, they make them recline for a reason.
6)pregnant, elderly, otherwise infirm. But only after every mothertrucker has taken their bags/coats off the seats beside them.
7)I only bcc someone when shit is going down. CMA.
8)No, fatty. Wait. You aren't starving to death, this is north America. Chances are you are obese, so waiting 5 mins shouldn't be killing you. Whats your hurry? When in doubt, WWJBD? (What would James Bond do?) Would James Bond dig in to his fettucine carbonara while the other guests haven't been served and just watch him? No. But Zack Galifianakis would. Think about it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

*When is it rude to use your mobile phone?* - If it requires you to talk loudly to be heard, don't use it. If it's a personal call, don't use it. If you are disturbing an assumed collective quiet zone/period, don't use it. If you are interrupting a conversation with someone else, in order to impulsively answer your phone, don't use it. There is a current debate about whether use of cellphones for voice should be permitted on airplanes.

*Can you smoke e-cigarettes at work? *- Some places of work are nigh impossible to keep scent/stink free, and/or have no requirement to maintain decorum or public image. I'm reminded of one of Ottawa's grand old men who only closed his audio shop recently at the age of 90, when the building had some issues and required tenants to vacate. He would come in every day, and sit in the window, with a stogie, reading. In fact, I think he came in _in order_ to smoke. So, if its "the back office", no. If its the lunchroom at Mr. Lube, and nobody minds, why not.

*How do you kiss someone socially?* - Awkwardly. If they initiate the two-cheek salute, I will comply, although it is generally women who do so, and my cheeks are not always in a state where they won't do dermatological damage.

*Can you eat and do your make-up on public transport?* - People can sometimes find themselves in an emergency. And, as some who uses public transport daily, I will note that it doesn't take much to screw up your timing such that you _have_ to leave right now or you'll need to wait another 20 minutes for the next express bus. So I understand that people can be in a bind, and forgive them their trespasses. But their are meals, and there are *meals. *Do not impose the sight or scent of your large poutine on the other passengers for the next half hour. Similarly, there are young women (and all too often it seems to be overweight ones who prefer to only look in mirrors that reflect the neck up) for whom the _entire_ bus-ride is a trip to the make-up counter. I_ really _don't want to sit next to you switching stuff back and forth from your enormous purse over the entire course of the ride.

*Can you recline your seat on aeroplanes?* - That's what it's there for, but your brain and mouth are also there to ask the person behind you if they mind, or if they have enough room.

*When should you give your seat up on public transport? *- Any time you see someone whom you think might have some difficulty in remaining standing over the trip. That could be because they are aged, handicapped, pregnant, schlepping a young child that needs to be seated on a lap, carrying parcels/groceries, or simply someone who looks dog-tired. It is always good manners to_ ask _the person if they would like your seat, or at least gesture that you are making the offer.

*Is it okay to blind copy (bcc) someone into an email?* - I BCC someone if I am asked to respond to a work e-mail and do not want the recipient to be puzzled by, or made suspicious by, the sending to another person. Sometimes, you also want to protect access to the e-mail address of the copied recipient. A colleague, who is ridiculously well-connected will often send me new articles and presentations, and CC the same material to a lot of fairly highly-placed people in the media, government, and government. I hope to goodness our firewall at work is strong enough to keep out any worms, because I would rather not be an unwitting party to those folks getting spammed. So sometimes BCC is not only not bad manners, it is actually_ good _manners.

*Can you eat before everyone has been served?* - Depends how chaotic the meal is. If it's a meal I prepared, I'm often too busy serving to start before anyone else. If I'm at someone else's home, I'll wait. Politeness is only a small part of that. It's a darn sight easier to make small talk while waiting for everyone to begin eating, than it is to finish well ahead of everyone and then try to figure what to do or say, while waiting at the table for everyone else to finish eating.


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## ThatGingerMojo (Jul 30, 2014)

I agree that all items in the checklist are common sense. If you are being loud and obnoxious than you are not using manners.

I would like to add some pet peeves if thats OK. 
Take your hat off in a restaurant, not McDonalds, (nobody cares) I mean if you have your food delivered to you with metal cutlery, take your damn hat off. And pull up your pants around food, its just gross.
Blowing your nose in a crowded place, around food, or near my ear.. just plain rude.
Spitting on the side walk, were you born in a barn? Or are you a camel?
If somebody is right behind you entering a buliding, hold the door for them , male or female. This is chivalrous, its plain manners.
Talking very loud on your cell phone is plainly rude.
Talking on a cell phone while in the washroom, is not bad manners it is unhygenic, which brings me to my number one pet peeve..

Wash your damn hands when you use the washroom. Its rude and gross.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

ThatGingerMojo said:


> I agree that all items in the checklist are common sense. If you are being loud and obnoxious than you are not using manners.
> 
> I would like to add some pet peeves if thats OK.
> Take your hat off in a restaurant, not McDonalds, (nobody cares) I mean if you have your food delivered to you with metal cutlery, take your damn hat off. And pull up your pants around food, its just gross.
> ...


 re: bolded, I don't know that is rude. Mainly because I don't think a lot of ppl know when they are doing it. I think a lot of ppl (myself included) subconsciously raise the tone of their voice when on a cell phone. I didn't know I did it until I was in the car with my wife and she pointed it out. I agree it is annoying though.
Is something annoying always rude?



> *Can you recline your seat on aeroplanes?* - That's what it's there for, but your brain and mouth are also there to ask the person behind you if they mind, or if they have enough room.


Ya, but TBH, Im not going to ask, bc those seats are so goddam uncomfortable, Im doing it regardless, unless the person behind me was born with 8 arms or something. Again, I trust that whomever designed those things, did so that in the fully reclined position, my head isn't going to be between their thighs. I don't see the big deal, those things only recline like 2" anyways.
What if you don't like the response that the person gives? eg "Errr...no....You see im reading this ginormous newspaper that incidentally, I didn't ask anyone if I would be inconveniencing them, so I would be much more comfortable if you just suffered for the next 4 hrs in a fully upright position".


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

boyscout said:


> May I add one? Is it appropriate to address a person you don't know well by their first name?





Diablo said:


> It's become that way. seems "mr. " or "mrs" only gets used in a)either a sales context where a salesperson is grovelling to you, or b)when the other person is much older. and as I've recently discovered now that my daughter started school, between teachers and students/parents.


Groveling? I was instructed that it is respectful to address a person by their last name until they invite you to do otherwise.

When I call up Rogers Wireless and the kid answering the phone who has never met me calls me by my first name, I'm offended. In any circumstance in which a person doesn't know me well, using my first name is disrespectful so obviously the use doesn't make an interchange more "friendly" with me, the opposite is true. I usually firmly require that my first name not be used, which some might regard as rude.

As Steadfastly's title says, manners are a changing thing, but those deciding to discard old manners would be better-mannered if they remembered that some people will stick with the manners THEY like to practice. It used to be rude to presume about someone's manners, used to be considered polite to ask, "May I call you <first name>?"


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

boyscout said:


> Groveling? *I was instructed that it is respectful to address a person by their last name until they invite you to do otherwise.*
> 
> When I call up Rogers Wireless and the kid answering the phone who has never met me calls me by my first name, I'm offended. In any circumstance in which a person doesn't know me well, using my first name is disrespectful so obviously the use doesn't make an interchange more "friendly" with me, the opposite is true. I usually firmly require that my first name not be used, which some might regard as rude.
> 
> * As Steadfastly's title says, manners are a changing thing, but those deciding to discard old manners would be better-mannered if they remembered that some people will stick with the manners THEY like to practice. It used to be rude to presume about someone's manners, used to be considered polite to ask, "May I call you <first name*>?"


Don't you mean Mr. Steadfastly?


Sir, I agree with you in principle, but I think times have changed. People are more casual these days.
When a salesperson calls me by my last name it feels forced/fake. Like theyre kissing up.
And sometimes I feel like referring to me by my lastname creates distance.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

In French, of course, _on vouvoie (_verb is _vouvoyer)_. There is only one form of "you" in English, but two forms in French, and the general rule is one uses "vous" (the plural) if the person is older, in a position of authority, or simply unfamiliar. You eventually switch to the more familiar "tu" when some degree of familiarity and/or informality has been established.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

With a hearty laugh, I gotta say that, Diablo, I would NOT want to be trapped in a small room with you, in a lineup or behind you on a plane... :Smiley-fart:


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

bluzfish said:


> With a hearty laugh, I gotta say that, Diablo, I would NOT want to be trapped in a small room with you, in a lineup or behind you on a plane... :Smiley-fart:


haha...fair enough. 
Im my own man, that's for sure...but I have to admit, at least some of it is internet bluster 
But it was astute of you to know about me and lineups. I don't do well in them at all. I avoid them at all costs!

back to the topic....
Im going to add one of my own to the manners list:
when ppl start threads asking for input and then don't click the thanks button for any of the responses.


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