# Can we stop posting scam listings?



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Unless it’s someone here selling a 3k Historic, chances are very high that anything along those lines is a scam.

Someone lifted my old drummers’ ad and listed on facebook as their own.

Let’s not enable scammers or extend their reach


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

I'm trying to understand this. You're asking the folks here to stop posting scam listings? So your drummer posted an ad and someone is using that ad on FB Marketplace, but what does that have to do with us here? 
Sorry like I said, just trying understand...


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Chito said:


> I'm trying to understand this. You're asking the folks here to stop posting scam listings? So your drummer posted an ad and someone is using that ad on FB Marketplace, but what does that have to do with us here?
> Sorry like I said, just trying understand...


I mentioned the drum scam because people are copying and pasting old ads as scams. It’s merely an example.

I think we all knowa $2800 Gibson Historic is a scam - so dont post them?


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

I don't see how this is a problem.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I would not necessarily know that a Gibson historic at $2800 is a scam.


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## elburnando (11 mo ago)

Milkman said:


> I would not necessarily know that a Gibson historic at $2800 is a scam.


I don't necessarily know what a Gibson historic is. I think it's best to continue posting possible amazing deals, but leave out obvious or known scams. For what's posted, _caveat emptor._


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Budda said:


> I mentioned the drum scam because people are copying and pasting old ads as scams. It’s merely an example.
> 
> I think we all knowa $2800 Gibson Historic is a scam - so dont post them?


So these are kijiji or Marketplace listings that are scams which are being posted in here?


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

BlueRocker said:


> I don't see how this is a problem.


I agree, I would even say it could be useful to some people, like the post @2manyGuitars did on the fake LP.
Maybe it should have its own section and not the Kijiji Alert, though if that's what you mean.


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

If I recall, there was a recent case here where a person avoided being scammed because he googled the guitar and the first hit, was us here talking about it being a scam. 

To me there is value in pointing these scams out, and there’s the education part, where people are learning about the guitar and the methods used by scammers. Does it belong in the Kijiji alerts? Who knows…but many of these scams seem to being posted by members who don’t seem to know that it’s a potential scam, and the discussion goes from there.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Derek_T said:


> I agree, I would even say it could be useful to some people, like the post @2manyGuitars did on the fake LP.
> Maybe it should have its own section and not the Kijiji Alert, though if that's what you mean.


This is a good idea. Have a section for the scams instead of the one we are now using.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

Chito said:


> This is a good idea. Have a section for the scams instead of the one we are now using.


Yes, let's just create a Scam alerts section for fake, scam... this way we keep some historic as well for people trying to pass fake around.


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## markdoe (Jan 5, 2022)

Chito said:


> This is a good idea. Have a section for the scams instead of the one we are now using.


I like this solution, too. These posts are a great way (/the only way) for me to learn how to spot fakes, but maybe they belong somewhere more appropriate.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

markdoe said:


> I like this solution, too. These posts are a great way (/the only way) for me to learn how to spot fakes, but maybe they belong somewhere more appropriate.


I've seen a lot of legit guitars being described as fake here lately.


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## markdoe (Jan 5, 2022)

BlueRocker said:


> I've seen a lot of legit guitars being described as fake here lately.


Yeah, but I think usually someone more knowledgable comes along and corrects it. I get that it's annoying to take on that responsibility, though.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Budda said:


> Unless it’s someone here selling a 3k Historic, chances are very high that anything along those lines is a scam.
> 
> Someone lifted my old drummers’ ad and listed on facebook as their own.
> 
> Let’s not enable scammers or extend their reach


I hear what you are saying. I will say that from the time I started buying and selling music equipment, an R model Gibson has been obtainable for $3500 and I’m sure that many people get a C*** hair more and I’m even more sure that most people take a trade that results in less.

My first thought when I see any guitar at any price listed is “I would never sell something that a) worked b) was as good as the advertisements that drove me to buy it.

So I assume that everything for sale has something wrong with it and that it’s my job to find fix that problem. I also assume that when something is dramatically underpriced that it’s beyond just a minor cosmetic issue. That to me is someone who has a quote for repair that is substantial enough to justify their “loss” which is usually based on what they “think” is the value which is based on dreamverb.com price guides and kijiji asking prices.
This has had a huge impact on 1. what I’m willing to pay 2. How informed I am willing to be based on that 3. How few things I am going to own - buy - sell.

After that I assume that in the best case scenario for a buyer it is someone who is elderly or who is selling a dead man’s guitar and has no clue what to ask.

In any any scenario mentioned, which are my true personal beliefs and not immune to exception, I don’t benefit from seeing the ad and I don’t think anyone benefits from the ad like that on here as someone is getting ripped off or ripping someone off.

All of this being said, I think it’s on the individual to be informed and be prepared to take a loss on either side of a transaction and that one man’s junk in most cases is another man’s gold (at least for 12-20 days) lol. So I don’t know that I have a place in suggestion wether or not other people want to share these listings or participate in the larger game of hot potato with broken, stolen gear or scams.

It sounds to me like your intention is purely noble in not wanting forum members or random people to fall prey to scams that may be obvious to semi or reasonably informed members.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

I am not sure I understand exactly what you all are talking about : But one thing I can say is this forum openend my eyes on scams and fakes I had no idea they could even exist. Thanks guys for your time ! 

P.S. Did I mention before that I found this forum while I was looking for some stolen guitar listing or registry ?


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## Axeman9216 (Mar 15, 2019)

BlueRocker said:


> I've seen a lot of legit guitars being described as fake here lately.


There are so many experts out there 3/4 of these fake Gibsons are authentic. Talk about misleading for someone coming here from a Google search looking for some insight who wouldn't know how much false information gets posted.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Chito said:


> This is a good idea. Have a section for the scams instead of the one we are now using.


This sub isn't exactly flooded with posts, I don't really see the problem with them just being listed here. It falls under a Kijiji "alert" to me. I just don't really agree with adding more subs unless they are really needed. There's been a lot of other sub ideas that were turned down. If the sun was overwhelmed with posts that's another matter.

If anything, I'd update the name of this sub. Marketplace is as popular or more popular than Kijiji at this point.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Personally, It think it's a great resource and am more than happy to contribute what knowledge I have to any posts regarding scam identification.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

I think it has its place in here. When calling a fake, obvious clues that can be seen by the untrained eye must be provided.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Axeman9216 said:


> There are so many experts out there 3/4 of these fake Gibsons are authentic. Talk about misleading for someone coming here from a Google search looking for some insight who wouldn't know how much false information gets posted.


But the misleading/blatantly wrong information gets called out here almost immediately.


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I would not necessarily know that a Gibson historic at $2800 is a scam.


Forgive me, but then you're also probably not actually in the market for a Gibson Historic...which means posting it here is still useless.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

Derek_T said:


> Yes, let's just create a Scam alerts section for fake, scam... this way we keep some historic as well for people trying to pass fake around.


You mean like the one we already have?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

TimH said:


> Forgive me, but then you're also probably not actually in the market for a Gibson Historic...which means posting it here is still useless.



Well, it does mean that $2800 for a Les Paul is not a low price in my opinion so that price would not be an instant tip off.

I've owned a historic (2013 R7 VOS).


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

GuitarT said:


> You mean like the one we already have?


The one we have now seems to be one on going thread which I personally find harder to follow vs a thread for each possible scam. I enjoy the Scam adds as you start to learn what to look for in identifying fake/Chibson making yourself a more educated shopper. They can also lead to some comical back and forth


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I found the scam posts useful in that they often provided good information about what to look for. Some better than others but generally useful.


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## skeetz (Mar 26, 2014)

This is starting to be a little “too much”. But here is my simple 2cents worth. Whether it’s posted here or a separate “Scam Alert” section (which is a very good idea) - this may be very useful for some as not everyone is an “educated specialist” on specific models. I for one am very familiar with Telecasters but not Les Pauls. I have never owned one and hopefully one day soon, I will hopefully add one to my “arsenal”. Most members are very helpful here and when the day comes when I’m ready to “pull the trigger” I hope that I end up with a “real” one with the help/guidance of a fellow member or two. If someone is “sick and tired” of these “scam alerts”....don’t read them and simply “move on” to what is more of interest. Years ago, not everybody read the comic section of a newspaper even though it filled one or two pages. Chill, everybody- and let’s be thankful that there are those who spend the time to warn members of a potentially regrettable situation. Cheers.


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## JivRey (Jul 2, 2016)

BGood said:


> I think it has its place in here. When calling a fake, obvious clues that can be seen by the untrained eye must be provided.


Yeah but it's not what is happening. People are just saying something like "Oh this one's feels wrong" and just drop that there with no explanations and then it turns into a witch hunt.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

I would vote to get rid of the actual legit listings on this site for customs and reissues listed at over $5000.00 that’s the real scam. Unless the year of the guitar is 2020-2022 then maybe that is a reasonable price.
Stop GC gouging!


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

JivRey said:


> Yeah but it's not what is happening. People are just saying something like "Oh this one's feels wrong" and just drop that there with no explanations and then it turns into a witch hunt.


I had it happen in my for sale posting last week. Seems the rules have changed - you can't talk about the price of someone's item but it's ok to imply that it's a fake.


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## Simon (Jun 14, 2018)

It is time to form the Ontario Provincial Guitar Police. They can patrol the classifieds searching out fake Gibsons and Fenders, and arresting those involved in trying to sell a Chibson as a 59 'burst once owned by Stompin' Tom or a floor mop as Peter Framptons 1976 wig from his album cover 'Comes Alive'. We could all safely sleep in our beds, thanks to the OPGP. Volunteers can sign up now at 1 800 GUITARS


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## JivRey (Jul 2, 2016)

BlueRocker said:


> I had it happen in my for sale posting last week. Seems the rules have changed - you can't talk about the price of someone's item but it's ok to imply that it's a fake.


You've been a member ONLY 3 years. ~5100 posts. Entirely suspicious to me, it's a great cover you've built there man.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

JivRey said:


> You've been a member ONLY 3 years. ~5100 posts. Entirely suspicious to me, it's a great cover you've built there man.


I've been playing the slow game to lure my victims into a false sense of security. You should see what I'm doing over at the Canadian Knitting forum - getting ready to pass off some Chinese knockoff Mediterranean Blue wool as Scottish Indigo Blue. Suckers!


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