# Band about to emerge from the basement... advice please...



## Hamstrung

My basement cover band is about ready to start gigging locally. 
Our expectations are tempered by the realities of playing bars in the current climate. We're at a stage where we need the gigging experience to improve our skills and focus. The basement only gets you so far. 
We don't expect to get rich (or really even "make" money for that matter) but expect to be compensated for the time and effort. 
This isn't a full time thing for any of us. We're in it for the joy of rockin' out and having fun. An average of a gig a month would be a nice pace but I have no idea what to expect. I'm sure it's different in every area. 

A couple of practical considerations that I hope some of you more experienced musicians can chime in on...

- Band name/logo - We've created one. Should we trademark it? How? Where? What's the cost (if any)?
- As an "untested" unit how do we negotiate with establishments especially when they ask "can you fill the place?" (or some variant of "what are you gonna do for me?")? It's a fair question on their part as they don't want to have extra staff and stock only to have an empty house which, let's face it is a distinct possibility at this stage of our development. Is there a common approach to this? Is a "one off" free show an accepted approach?
- What are the "red flags" that would make you seriously reconsider booking at a particular place? (I'm sure "pay to play" is one but there's no way we'd do that)
- What's a fair amount of compensation to ask for a competent but non-professional (as in, we're not musicians for a living) cover band? 
- Is it typical to draw up a contract or agreement with a bar owner or are most of these things verbal at that level. (We're talking small neighborhood bars here)
- How does one enhance their insurance coverage for gear in this situation, I assume the insurance company takes the view that if you're playing out you're "professional" regardless of the venue. What's your experience?
- What's the best way to load in/out of a venue to ensure against theft? (any tricks/tips)
- How do you handle the inevitable "Freebird!" or "Play Metallica!" requests from persistent drunks without resorting to insults and violence?
- How do you handle the above people getting too close to you our your gear during or in between sets?

Answers to these and any other advice would be appreciated and potentially useful to a lot of us weekend warriors who are newbs to playing out.


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## bw66

About a year ago, our band decided to host a party in the basement of a local bar that was available for private parties. For many of the reasons that you state. We had played a couple of one hour sets at local events, but wanted to get a feel for playing a "real" gig. This particular space is available for private parties for free, but the venue gets the bar. So we set up and invited all of our friends, including another band and various musicians as we didn't have enough music of our own to fill the night.

People came! We packed the place (~150) and everyone had a blast. The bar loved us (turns out they were going broke and we kept them going for a few extra days). 

Last month, we teamed up with a friend's band and did a similar thing at the local legion hall. This time we charged a cover with the proceeds going to the legion's building fund. Once again, we drew about 150 paying customers.

Next month, we're back at the original bar (newly re-opened) for another private party with the same band from the legion gig. Once again, we're charging a small cover, but this time, the plan is to put it back into the band. We'll see how it goes... if we can draw the same 150, that's over $700 for the musicians - not a fortune, but not bad.

Fortunately, many of the problems that you outline, haven't happened to us yet, mainly because pretty much everyone in attendance knows someone in one of the bands. Also, it's a small town, so there really isn't any anonymity to hide behind if you're thinking about being an a$$. As far as theft goes, we don't leave anything unattended, and we politely decline offers of help from people who aren't close to the band. Once again, though, a friendly audience helps!


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## Guest

When I first began. we started slow (jam nights/open mic,
opened for friends' bands, etc) to work out jitters and such.
Bring the band to Riff Wraths jam as well. 
I like Brian's route too. :sSig_goodjob2:


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## james on bass

Hamstrung said:


> A couple of practical considerations that I hope some of you more experienced musicians can chime in on...
> 
> - Band name/logo - We've created one. Should we trademark it? How? Where? What's the cost (if any)? As an "untested" unit how do we negotiate with establishments especially when they ask "can you fill the place?" (or some variant of "what are you gonna do for me?")? It's a fair question on their part as they don't want to have extra staff and stock only to have an empty house which, let's face it is a distinct possibility at this stage of our development. Is there a common approach to this? Is a "one off" free show an accepted approach?
> - What are the "red flags" that would make you seriously reconsider booking at a particular place? (I'm sure "pay to play" is one but there's no way we'd do that)
> - What's a fair amount of compensation to ask for a competent but non-professional (as in, we're not musicians for a living) cover band?
> - Is it typical to draw up a contract or agreement with a bar owner or are most of these things verbal at that level. (We're talking small neighborhood bars here)
> - How does one enhance their insurance coverage for gear in this situation, I assume the insurance company takes the view that if you're playing out you're "professional" regardless of the venue. What's your experience?
> - What's the best way to load in/out of a venue to ensure against theft? (any tricks/tips)
> - How do you handle the inevitable "Freebird!" or "Play Metallica!" requests from persistent drunks without resorting to insults and violence?
> - How do you handle the above people getting too close to you our your gear during or in between sets?
> 
> Answers to these and any other advice would be appreciated and potentially useful to a lot of us weekend warriors who are newbs to playing out.


- Unless you are releasing your material, I wouldn't bother registering your name.
- Do you know any of the bar-owners or managers personally? Do any of the band-mates or perhaps some other local bands/musicians you may know? 
- Absolutely do not pay to play. Perhaps take a low paying, entry-level show, but do not pay. Yes, this is fun, or a hobby, but you are investing your time and talent as well. Do not play for 'cover' charge money, unless it's someone you know collecting the door money - like that would happen.
- How many guys in the band? Tell the bar owner that you each have at least 5 to 10 family/friends coming out to see you - that could be enough to get you in. 
- I know there are young bands willing to play for $100 here in London. For a first time out of the basement band of adults I don't think you would be unreasonable expecting $250 to $300. Unless you have experience with the bar and the scene, more than that is very unlikely your first time out. Maybe ask for a couple beers each band-member as well.
- all of your gear will need extra insurance. Even if you are playing for free but someone buys you a beer, you are considered to be using your instruments as a source of income in which case home insurance will not cover anything. You could probably insure up to $5000 of gear for about $250/year. * Knock on wood * - I've never had gear stolen at a show, nor have any of my band-mates over the years either. Misplaced, yes, but not stolen. More than once one of us have forgotten something behind at a bar or festival and it has always been returned. I recall a friend a few years ago playing at a downtown park/festival - he left his spare bass leaning up against a tree and took off for the next city. He actually got the bass back the following week. 
- Ask the bar-owner exactly what time load-in , set-up and sound-check is at. Don't be late. Unless the sound-check is early in the day, keep the set-up quiet - don't be noodling around on your instruments if there are people in the bar. You might think you are a musical genious, but you're just annoying everyone! Keep sound-check short and straight to the point. Play what is necessary to check your sound, then wait for the show. 
- at a bar with an actual stage, I've never had issues with people coming up to look at, touch, steal gear etc... Most people really don't care about our instruments. That being said, I take a hands-on approach to anyone that thinks they can go and pick up a piece of gear.
- keep an eye on the stage and your gear at all times. If it's a sketchy place, don't everyone take off outside for a smoke or out for dinner before the show.


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## Hamstrung

Brian, Larry and James... Thanks for some valuable input. Some great info there!
Keep 'em coming! There has to be a ton of experience on this forum. 

@Larry, we did a bit of a trial run at last June's Riff Wrath jam! People seemed to respond well but then again it's about the friendliest crowd there is for rocking out!
The thing is we don't want to bogart the open jam concept that is Riff's yet we wanna do our sets for people as a unit.


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## greco

This should be a very interesting and helpful thread as everyone who is now gigging out had to emerge from the basement/garage at some point.

Cheers

Dave


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## GTmaker

I'm going to add one thing that I hope will make your band as entertaining as possible.

MAKE UP A SET OF SONGS and play the set...
-every one on stage should know what song is next - NO EXCUSES
-make up mini sets of songs within a set. ( 2-3 songs consecutive. NO STOPPING, NO TALKING)
- Get those dammed endings of songs as tight as possible. Make it feel like everyone knows where the ending is.
-when your on stage, never forget that the audience is paying attention...it may look like they are not but believe me they are.
( what this means is that you should never lay your guard down and think your still back in your basement jamming.)

I'll stop now cause if I dont, it'll never end.

Good luck...have fun and remember that your there to entertain (thats why your getting payed)

G.


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## fredyfreeloader

I could regale you with wonderful stories about first night jitters and screw ups but that didn't happen. I could tell you that I never got out of the garage because they locked me in that's not true either but funnier. I didn't do the playing in a band route in the beginning instead I worked as an accompanist for female singer(s) mainly doing stage shows, super clubs, a couple of TV shows(CBC) you don't get rich that way, you only had to hope the singer remembered the song(s) all the way through. That was in the 60's, the playing with other musicians began in the mid 1970's and that was a whole new experience. I can tell that the previous posters here have given you some good advise. You will learn quite a few things as you go on your merry way making mistakes and learning what works and what doesn't. Best advise I can give is enjoy yourself and be yourself, nobody likes a faker.


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## Big_Daddy

Some great advice here so far. Our band "came out" of the basement about 2 years ago, starting with private parties at friends and then benefits for local charities. In most cases in the beginning, we played for free but were compensated by passing the hat, free drinks, etc. Paying gigs followed as a natural progression, by word of mouth, doing a benefit at a local bar and being asked back by the owner and being approached by people in the crowd. We now get $500 a night for three sets and get free drinks wherever we play (though we still do lots of benefits for local charities). We play out about once a month, sometimes more in the summer.

Some things I have learned over the years....

* Always take a circuit tester to gigs and _*use it*_. It will save your gear and maybe your life.
* Politely decline help from strangers who offer to move your gear. Most gear losses happen at the end of the night when everything is lying around, people are tired (or distracted by that blonde who was sitting in the corner smiling at you all night), by just not paying attention or when you leave stuff momentarily unattended in or near your vehicles. Stay vigilant!
* You can keep an eye on that pretty girl in the corner, but keep the other one on your gear between sets.
* Set up your monitors in a way to block the front of the stage. It helps keep the drunks away.
* Dead air is your enemy. Learn your sets and get into that next song quickly. Nothing kills the mood on the dance floor like long pauses between songs while the guitar player "tweaks" his tuning or the bass player practices the riff for the next song. *No noodling between songs!* Be professional.
* Mistakes are going to happen. Don't stare down the guy who made a blunder. Play on like nothing happened and most likely the crowd won't even notice. See "Be professional" above.
* Have fun! Don't forget to smile! You are doing this because you love it. Let people in the crowd know that and they will love it too!

Hope this helps.

Don


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## ssydor

*New Band*

I don't have too much experience playing in cover bands (other than basement jams with friends).
But my band (which plays originals), made the lead from the basement to the stage a few years ago.
The only advice I have is get your set together, and Practice Practice Practice. And when you think you have everything down, practice more! Your nerves can get the better of you, so you need to get to the point where you go into autopilot (so you don't have to think about what you are doing). Jamming songs out is also fun too, but you have to know where you are going and where to come back in (and nail the ending). Don't try to figure those things out in front of a crowd at your first show!
Also, don't drink too much! It is hard not too... especially when you are sitting in a bar the whole evening (and everyone is buying you beers and shots).

Good luck! Keep us posted. :slash:


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## Hamstrung

*Re: New Band*

Reviving an old thread here. Since I first posted my band has played a couple of gigs at a local bar. This was a few months back. He paid us $300 per night which seemed reasonable considering we didn't have a reputation to demand more. The first night we had a great turnout due to friends and family coming to check us out. A month later there were fewer (we kinda expected this) but not a bad turnout. 
Following this we had changed bass players (to a much better one!) and had to get back to the basement to get him up to speed and re-jig the set list. 

After following up with the bar owner for whom we played the first couple times (he said he liked us and wanted us back) he responds that he indeed wanted us to play again but now the payment agreement had to change. He now says we can either charge at the door OR take 15% of the gross while we're on. 

This kinda puts us in a position where we're very unlikely to even make the $300 we originally had. The likelihood of people paying at the door for a band that many have not heard of seems minimal to me. Keep in mind, this bar is a local watering hole and not an established music venue where you could expect people to "walk-in" and be willing to pay for music site unseen. Essentially we'd be asking any family and friends to cough up to see us. Even if we did that we'd need quite a few people to bring us to the $300 we were making. 
The other option seems just as unlikely to make our original take. At 15% they'd have to take in $2000 from 9:30 to 1:30. Even if they did, how would we prove it!?

Now, to play my own Devil's advocate, we aren't very established and I get that we may not be padding the bottom line as much as someone who is. Also, while we aren't buying into the old "you get exposure" stuff we really do need more on-stage experience to polish our act. 

What's you're experience with payment in local bar situations? Should we look around for other venues (we are anyway). Should we still play this one with the new terms knowing that all we'll really get is (admittedly needed) stage experience? 
Also, how do you approach most bar owners with regard to what you wish to be paid? Do you state it like a fact "We charge XXX$ per night" or do you ask "What do you pay bands"? It seems either has inherent risks that you will either price yourself too high or to low for the gig or be taken advantage of if you leave it to the bar owner.


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## 4345567

________________


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## kat_

I don't mind taking a percentage of drinks. It gives you a firm number so that when you approach another bar you can say that at bar#1 they sold $x of drinks while you played. They're running a business and you're a supplier of a very specific product.

That said, I hate it when the deal changes once you've played there a couple of times. If you don't make enough to justify $300 then why do they want you back at all? Do you know anyone else who plays there? What are they making?

It sounds like the bar owner has noticed that you're not playing anywhere else so he wants to see what he can get away with. Focus on getting shows at other places so you'll have a better idea of what to expect.


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## Hamstrung

kat_ said:


> I don't mind taking a percentage of drinks. It gives you a firm number so that when you approach another bar you can say that at bar#1 they sold $x of drinks while you played. They're running a business and you're a supplier of a very specific product.


How do you verify their sales for the night to ensure you're getting the agreed upon percentage? Do you simply trust the numbers they give you or do you ask to see the cash out tape at the end of the night?


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## Guest

*Re: New Band*



Hamstrung said:


> Should we still play this one with the new terms knowing that all we'll really get is (admittedly needed) stage experience?


Hopefully, you'll all still be coming to the *Riff Wrath Jam*. So .. we can help you critique stage presence, etc. 

I'd say take a % of the bar, but, first change you name to 'free beer' for that evening for the club's marquee. lol.


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## Hamstrung

*Re: New Band*



laristotle said:


> Hopefully, you'll all still be coming to the *Riff Wrath Jam*. So .. we can help you critique stage presence, etc.
> 
> I'd say take a % of the bar, but, first change you name to 'free beer' for that evening for the club's marquee. lol.


I think "Free Beer" has been taken!

I don't think our singer can make the Riff Wrath Jam this time. Shift work. I'll probably be there, maybe the other guys...


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## kat_

Hamstrung said:


> How do you verify their sales for the night to ensure you're getting the agreed upon percentage? Do you simply trust the numbers they give you or do you ask to see the cash out tape at the end of the night?


There's only one bar here where I play for a percentage and I do trust them. If I weren't happy with what we make there I just wouldn't play there anymore, but I'm happy there and they like us. We bring an older crowd than most of their bands so the servers actually get tipped well and they actually want us back more often than we can fit into our schedules. It's also one of my favourite venues to go to when I'm not playing, so that's good for maintaining a relationship.


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## Guitar101

This is a tough one but the bar would have to make 400 sales of beer & liquor (rough estimate - 400X5=$2000) for you to make your $300. Some owners want the band to push beer and liquor while their playing and this may be the owners way of enticing you to do so. On the other hand, you would have to get 60 people to pay $5 at the door for you to make your $300. Does the bar usually charge a cover? For what it's worth. I hope you can come to some kind of agreement but as someone said earlier, it's getting tough out there. Best of luck.


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## Hamstrung

Guitar101 said:


> This is a tough one but the bar would have to make 400 sales of beer & liquor (rough estimate) for you to make your $300. Some owners want the band to push beer and liquor while their playing and this may be the owners way of enticing you to do so. On the other hand, you would have to get 60 people to pay $5 at the door for you to make your $300. Does the bar usually charge a cover? For what it's worth. I hope you can come to some kind of agreement but as someone said earlier, it's getting tough out there. Best of luck.


Actually, paying 15% they'd have to pull in $2000 for us to get $300! (2000 x 0.15). Since the policy has recently changed I can only assume all other bands get the same deal, i.e. They either charge at the door or take the 15%. I guess we'll just have to see what else is out there. If nothing we may have no choice but to suck it up till we gain a reputation that justifies a better deal.


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## Chito

Probably late now for Hamstrung but here's my take on his questions:

- Band name/logo - We've created one. Should we trademark it? How? Where? What's the cost (if any)?

Don't bother with the trademark. I've been in a few bands and none had a trademark on the name.

- As an "untested" unit how do we negotiate with establishments especially when they ask "can you fill the place?" (or some variant of "what are you gonna do for me?")? It's a fair question on their part as they don't want to have extra staff and stock only to have an empty house which, let's face it is a distinct possibility at this stage of our development. Is there a common approach to this? Is a "one off" free show an accepted approach?

Here in Ottawa, there is very little negotiation. A lot of bars don't pay or expect to pay you with the door. When we're told that, I tell them don't bother to charge for the door if that's what you are going to pay us with. Most of our crowd are friends and family. For what we get out of it at the end of the evening, I'd rather we don't get paid and let our friends enjoy the evening without having to pay for watching us. There are places that pay in here depending on the bar. But for us right now, we just want to play out there in different venues and bring our music to whoever wants to listen to it. Honestly we don't really care if we get paid. If we do get paid, which is once in a while, we take it. 

- What are the "red flags" that would make you seriously reconsider booking at a particular place? (I'm sure "pay to play" is one but there's no way we'd do that)

A red flag for me is when the staff is rude specially the bar manager/owner. 

- What's a fair amount of compensation to ask for a competent but non-professional (as in, we're not musicians for a living) cover band? 

If you each get $100, you're doing fine.

- Is it typical to draw up a contract or agreement with a bar owner or are most of these things verbal at that level. (We're talking small neighborhood bars here)

Written contracts or agreements don't exist It's all verbal.

- How does one enhance their insurance coverage for gear in this situation, I assume the insurance company takes the view that if you're playing out you're "professional" regardless of the venue. What's your experience?

If you expect insurance coverage for gear you lose when you're gigging. yes the insurance company assumes you are a professional. And that means a special premium outside of what you are already paying for your house.

- What's the best way to load in/out of a venue to ensure against theft? (any tricks/tips)

Have someone watch the truck/car while you are loading. I haven't found any other fool proof method of preventing theft.

- How do you handle the inevitable "Freebird!" or "Play Metallica!" requests from persistent drunks without resorting to insults and violence?

We usually ignore them, if they get rude, we tell them we don't know the song.

- How do you handle the above people getting too close to you our your gear during or in between sets?

Doesn't happen very often. We all watch after our gear. If someone gets too close to mine, I go and come over and they usually start asking questions. I have not experienced someone actually grabbing my guitar in the last 20 years I've been playing here in Ottawa. There was once where someone asked if he could jam with the band with my gear and I told him, 'sorry, this is not a jam night Come on Sundays or whatever when they have open jams.'.


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## mhammer

I'm curious. What sorts of songs tend to result in people wanting to drink more? I'm reminded of that scene in _The Blues Brothers_ where they play _Stand By Your Man_, and everybody in the joint is crying into their beer.

Part of me wants to say fast peppy music you can sing along with. BUt another part of me says that when people are up and dancing, they're probably not drinking...although they may need a drink once they sit down.

So what songs, or types of songs seem to result in patrons heading to the bar or motioning to their server?


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## Guest

[video=youtube;N6bk_qJw5XY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6bk_qJw5XY[/video]


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## Chito

mhammer said:


> I'm curious. What sorts of songs tend to result in people wanting to drink more? I'm reminded of that scene in _The Blues Brothers_ where they play _Stand By Your Man_, and everybody in the joint is crying into their beer.
> 
> Part of me wants to say fast peppy music you can sing along with. BUt another part of me says that when people are up and dancing, they're probably not drinking...although they may need a drink once they sit down.
> 
> So what songs, or types of songs seem to result in patrons heading to the bar or motioning to their server?


I have not seen any particular formula for this. There are bars that people drink a lot, there are others that don't. I find it really doesn't have much to do with the music. With my latest band, I really don't think we actually play anything that's conducive for drinking, except a lot of our friends are heavy drinkers. LOL Sometimes when we get the right group of people out, there won't be a lot of people but the bar is still happy coz they sell a lot of booze.


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## kat_

mhammer said:


> Part of me wants to say fast peppy music you can sing along with. BUt another part of me says that when people are up and dancing, they're probably not drinking...although they may need a drink once they sit down.


A slow song gets people up dancing, then a couple of faster tunes will keep them up there and get them needing a drink, then switch to something less dancable so they sit down and order drinks. If you time things right you can sometimes even do that twice in a set.


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## deadear

I will throw a wrench into the equation. Now most people at clubs dance with beer in hand. They don't leave them due to possible tampering and steeling etc. I don't agree with glass on the dance floor but I don't make the rules.

As far as security of your equipment. It is a good idea to have a guy stationed at the van or cars, one on the stage and one or two running gear back and forth with a cart. I was at a club friday night and the guitar player had 10 gand worth of equipment if he had to replace it. The club had security ( bouncers) but they only look after the club property and the street is where you unload. All kinds of street people walking around looking for a score.


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## Hamstrung

Another revival of this thread from me. 
Well, it's been an interesting couple of months. My band had two gigs in March at different venues and we were booked back at the first and told we could be called at the second down the line. Both nights had great, enthusiastic crowds and we had fun. The only prediction I got wrong was instead of the drunken Metallica request it was a drunken Iron Maiden request! I had to take it for what it was, in the end the guy loved our band and was just dying to hear his favorite Iron Maiden song. We took it in stride and tried to let him know that while yes I'm aware of the song we don't know it nor could we pull it out of our ass on the spot. What went unspoken was "we ain't gonna!"

Now some observations from a "late bloomer" in this racket. 
- This is a young man's game! Lugging, loading, setting up gear, playing, tearing down at 2:30am, reloading, unloading at home and bed no earlier than 4am is NOT easy!
Yeah, playing is fun but daaamn my body hurts the next day... or two! 
- Using multi-coloured tape to mark all your cable ends is REALLY helpful when setting up! Didn't do that the first gig... made sure to before the second. It made a big difference. 
- Audiences are rather forgiving of small mistakes (even big ones sometimes!) and that's something I've heard forever but it's interesting to witness when you sweat the details in rehearsal. No matter, I still wanna get it right every time!
- I've had it told to me by more than one teacher that one gig is worth 10 rehearsals/practices. I can attest to the truth of this. Our band has tightened up noticeably since we started gigging. Even having one on the horizon seems to focus everyone's attention. 
- Don't underestimate getting to know the key people at an establishment. i.e. The bartender, the DJ, The waitresses as well as the owner. You never know who's gonna be your advocate!
- I've learned this from many of the local musicians I admire, make sure to be grateful to the people who show up to your gigs. Sure your friends will support you but you gotta let anyone know who you come in contact with that you appreciate them taking the time to come out. 
- Open jams are a great place to showcase your band (if said jam is open to full bands). That's how we got our biggest gig (which we parlayed into a return booking). Also, you network with other great musicians in your area!
- You really just don't know what songs people will respond to! We try to keep a good variety of new/old/heavy/light rock in our sets and the one compliment I've heard most consistently is that we have a good mix. The weird thing is from venue to venue you just can't predict what people will dance or respond to! You think you have a couple great dance numbers and nothing... bring out a sludgy old rocker and up they come! Different venue, different crowd, different results. 
- One weird thing I'm noticing is that now that we've had a couple shows back to back the band is already talking about tweaking the set list. I get that these songs may be old hat to us but the audiences are only hearing us basically for the first time. I'm trying to hold the line on too many changes this early though I admit we do have a couple songs that could be put out to pasture for better ones. I just hope we implement changes gradually.


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## bluzfish

It's good to know that some things never change! You sound like you have a good handle on what makes a working band successful. I'm truly rooting for you.


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## Guest

I really wanted to check ya's out. Really I did.
Glad to hear that it went well. Any clips?


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## fraser

> - How do you handle the inevitable "Freebird!" or "Play Metallica!" requests from persistent drunks without resorting to insults and violence?


always respond by playing "hand of doom". 
always.
also, im always the guy in the crowd yelling "hand of doom!"
always.


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## Guest

forget that .. 'Jack the stripper'


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## bluzfish

It's when they start 'requesting' Hit The Road Jack that you know you lost 'em.


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## whywhyzed

I made this box up for our PA cables and bits...takes a bit of stress off


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## Steadfastly

whywhyzed said:


> I made this box up for our PA cables and bits...takes a bit of stress off


That is a very good idea. I'm sure it helps setups and helps to make sure you have all the bits and pieces when you do the take down.


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## Hamstrung

Another random observation for us bush league or hobby players. I often peruse the Kijiji artist/musicians section to see if there are interesting jam opportunities to fill the time between my own band's practice/gig schedules. I have a new perspective on the "mainly looking to jam and occasional gig" request that I see and have in the past even written myself.

The more my band works toward getting and playing gigs the more I see that it's tough to be "occasional" about it unless you're just looking to play a friend's party for free or food. If you're actually looking to get a paying gig which usually turns into a continuing series of them you have to put the type of work in that makes it more than occasional even if the gigs aren't regular (i.e. weekly/monthly). I guess what I'm saying is that if you wanna just jam then just jam. Have fun, no pressure. 

If you wanna "play out" you all need to be on that page when "jamming" which quickly becomes "rehearsal" 'cause unless you're a really skilled group of musicians you won't likely be ready for paid gigs if you're just playing for shits 'n giggles. 

If you wanna tighten up your playing do the latter. Something about an upcoming gig and playing it that gives you a level of focus that you don't usually get in the average fun jam. The downside is that it's got a bigger element of "work" in it but the rewards are there too. 

... just my personal random observation. YMMV.


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## bw66

Hamstrung said:


> Another random observation for us bush league or hobby players. I often peruse the Kijiji artist/musicians section to see if there are interesting jam opportunities to fill the time between my own band's practice/gig schedules. I have a new perspective on the "mainly looking to jam and occasional gig" request that I see and have in the past even written myself.
> 
> The more my band works toward getting and playing gigs the more I see that it's tough to be "occasional" about it unless you're just looking to play a friend's party for free or food. If you're actually looking to get a paying gig which usually turns into a continuing series of them you have to put the type of work in that makes it more than occasional even if the gigs aren't regular (i.e. weekly/monthly). I guess what I'm saying is that if you wanna just jam then just jam. Have fun, no pressure.
> 
> If you wanna "play out" you all need to be on that page when "jamming" which quickly becomes "rehearsal" 'cause unless you're a really skilled group of musicians you won't likely be ready for paid gigs if you're just playing for shits 'n giggles.
> 
> If you wanna tighten up your playing do the latter. Something about an upcoming gig and playing it that gives you a level of focus that you don't usually get in the average fun jam. The downside is that it's got a bigger element of "work" in it but the rewards are there too.
> 
> ... just my personal random observation. YMMV.


I agree. "Occasional gig" doesn't necessarily translate to "occasional rehearsal" and is a long ways beyond "mainly looking to jam".


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## johnnyshaka

Here's how Adam Duritz, frontman for the Counting Crows, handled drunken "requests" last night:

"Sure, we'll play whatever you want."

Crowd cheers.

"BUT, it has to be what's next on our set list."

Crowd laughs.

"That way we both get what we want."

Crowd laughs and cheers.



Good luck with the band!


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## Chito

Awesome. Great to hear you guys are doing well. What you have mentioned are reasons, I continue to play in bands for the last 20 years. There are days that I feel I want to just have a "jam". But organizing it and getting people to come out is a pain. LOL Considering how many musicians I know here, maybe not the more famous ones, but I do know or have played with quite a number. On the other hand, I always look forward to rehearsing and playing out. We've been playing the same set list for months now, all original material. But we don't seem to tire of it. Just recently, we parted ways with our keyboard player due to conflicting commitments, so we got a new guy come in. And because of that, it became a new challenge for us. Since we play original music, each one is left to do what they think is appropriate for the music. The new keyboard player is more dynamic and creative, so it added a new element to the music. Its been fun. 

All I can say at this point, is keep it up. Seems like you guys are having a great time. In the end it's all about fun. If it's not fun anymore, then it becomes a chore. 

BTW, please continue to update us with what's going on with your band. It's something some people may learn from.


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## Milkman

Hamstrung said:


> Another random observation for us bush league or hobby players. I often peruse the Kijiji artist/musicians section to see if there are interesting jam opportunities to fill the time between my own band's practice/gig schedules. I have a new perspective on the "mainly looking to jam and occasional gig" request that I see and have in the past even written myself.
> 
> The more my band works toward getting and playing gigs the more I see that it's tough to be "occasional" about it unless you're just looking to play a friend's party for free or food. If you're actually looking to get a paying gig which usually turns into a continuing series of them you have to put the type of work in that makes it more than occasional even if the gigs aren't regular (i.e. weekly/monthly). I guess what I'm saying is that if you wanna just jam then just jam. Have fun, no pressure.
> 
> If you wanna "play out" you all need to be on that page when "jamming" which quickly becomes "rehearsal" 'cause unless you're a really skilled group of musicians you won't likely be ready for paid gigs if you're just playing for shits 'n giggles.
> 
> If you wanna tighten up your playing do the latter. Something about an upcoming gig and playing it that gives you a level of focus that you don't usually get in the average fun jam. The downside is that it's got a bigger element of "work" in it but the rewards are there too.
> 
> ... just my personal random observation. YMMV.


Very reasonable observations.

I have long known that a big part of the enjoyment I get from putting a new band on it's wheels is the actual process of developing the repertoire and arrangements and then tightening up the material.

I even love the "special teams" rehearsals where we just get together to work on vocal arrangements, just a guitar or piano and the voices, sometimes mic'd, sometimes not.

It's funny but for me, as long as we have a target (shows) and an agenda (agreed upon before rehearsal) I very much enjoy the "work" of putting it all together.


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## 335Bob

Milkman said:


> Very reasonable observations.
> 
> I have long known that a big part of the enjoyment I get from putting a new band on it's wheels is the actual process of developing the repertoire and arrangements and then tightening up the material.
> 
> I even love the "special teams" rehearsals where we just get together to work on vocal arrangements, just a guitar or piano and the voices, sometimes mic'd, sometimes not.
> 
> It's funny but for me, as long as we have a target (shows) and an agenda (agreed upon before rehearsal) I very much enjoy the "work" of putting it all together.


You've summed up the mindset it takes to build a tight successful band. It's challenging for a band to attract musicians that think this way.


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