# dirt- what am i looking for?



## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

pardon my ignorance on these subjects again- but ive never been a pedal guy.
im getting excellent, greatly satisfying tones out of my amps. 
but only if i crank them all the way up.
cant do that tho in an apartment all the time, so i went with a pod for a couple years. the pod does everything i want, and far more, but i recently decided i wanted to actually use my amps. 

using a pair of champs- sounding fantastic- however, i need a bit more hair at lower volume. ive got a dod fx53 tube overdrive- but it essentially ruins the sound that my guitar and amp creates- sure i get more dirt- but at the cost of that great tone. it colours the tone far too much, regardless of the settings.
i want to play the amp, not the pedal-
what i want, is a bit more breakup at lower volume, without sacrificing too much in terms of the guitar/amps basic sound.
so i ask- am i looking for a distortion box?
or are there overdrives that will get me what i want?
or further- perhaps a boost?

i dont want to go on a pedal buying binge- and due to my stubborn nature and attention problems, if it becomes an ordeal, ill just put my electrics away and play an acoustic lol.

i just want one decent dirt pedal- i dont want to emulate anybody in particulars sound, and im not interested in expensive boutique stuff.
think cranked, small fender amp tone, without having to be cranked-

mostly itll be strats/teles and electric lap slide into a pair of silverface champs- 
ive looked at the byoc stuff, and id be really cool with putting one together- as well any easily obtainable off the shelf box is great.

anybody have any thoughts?
thanks!


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## wayne (Apr 8, 2009)

a smaller amp?

Just a thought...

W


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

lol- smaller than 5 watts? im all about smaller amps. ive got an old pignose, and a couple old 3 watt tube amps- but the reason for posting this is because i want to use the champs- they are loud for 5 watts- in an apartment setting.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

No, there are pedals that do what you want - I own one. Menatone Red Snapper, you can set it to have almost zero drive and it sounds....like your amp. Up the gain (and tweak the EQ if necessary) and it sounds like your amp, only more so//hairier. This particular pedal is pretty low gain, what you end up with sorta depends on how much drive you need.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Fraser, it doesn't really fit into your price range, but I've found the Fulltone OCD is exactly what you describe. Its not what I'd describe as a dirt pedal, its just gives you realistic overdrive at lower volumes. I have a little Ampeg 15 watt combo which is way the hell too loud to crank to get the goods at home. However, I can get "tone at bedroom volume" if I drive it with the OCD. Sounds awesome with my Tele, Strat or my lap steel. Again, kinda pricey, but much more realistic than any of the other umpteen pedals that I've tried.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

My Deluxe has been in the hospital and I have been messing with this amp on a tune and have come with a killer sound. Kind of what you are looking for. 

The other thing I have used with the Deluxe is a Peavey Equalized DI. It goes in between the amp and the speaker. You can leave the speaker unplugged and crank the amp as necessary.. Sounds decent too. 

This all this amp except the bass. 
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=956342&songID=8292849


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## copperhead (May 24, 2006)

as for overdrive's stuff like ts9,boss sd1,ts7,ocd,cool cat drive as for a distortion not an overdrive i would try this
http://www.goudiefx.com/otp.php
these are designed for fender style amps


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## Peter (Mar 25, 2008)

I would recommend a Fulltone Fat Boost.


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## JeS89 (Aug 23, 2009)

A Timmy/Tim is supposed to get your signal (guitar to amp) overdriven. People say they're the most transparent od in the market.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

As much as I love pedals (and boy, HOWDY, do I!), let's aim for an amp solution for the moment.

The critical decision point, however, is what the basis of the amp tone you love stems from. It could be the tone of the speaker when pushed hard. It could be the sound of the output transformer. It could be the sound of the power stage. It could be the sound of the preamp stage. And, lord help us, it could be the sound of all of them put together.

The simplest areas to target would be the speaker and preamp stage. If the specific speaker appeals to you, then make yourself a speaker box that lets you crank it up without sound leakage, and listen to the thing via a mic and headphones. In response to the dissatisfaction with power soaks as a way to capture cranked amps at lower levels, there are a number of products on the market which allow the user to stick the speaker in an acoustically isolated cab, point an SM58 or whatever at the cone and let the amp rip.

If the speaker itself is not the issue/focus, but the output stage is, then it may be possible to use combinations of power resistors to diminish the audible output. So, if you have an 8-ohm output, get hold of a 16-ohm and 8-ohm power resistor, put the 8 in series with the speaker, and the 16 in parallel with those. Voila, you have an 8-ohm load...of sorts...and the output power will be divvied up amongst elements that translate the power into sound, and elements that just get sorta warm. Happily, a 5-watt amp makes it all the easier (and cheaper) to obtain the appropriate power resistors. Alternatively, if it is the power tube and output transformer, but any reasonable speaker will do, get thyself a less efficient speaker such that the same output power translates into fewer audible db.

At the tube level, it is difficult to find compatible tubes with less output power (I'm assuming your preferred amp uses a single 6V6 or EL84 equivalent). Even if it were, quite frankly the difference between 3W and 5W is not all that audible, and does not produce the sort of levels you are aiming for. In some instances, it is possible to swap out preamp tubes as is regularly done. So, a 12AX7 is replaced with a lower gain 12AT7/AY7/AU7. Of course, if the sound you like comes from the power tube being pummeled, then certainly lowering the gain of the preamp stage is not going to accomplish what you want.

If, in fact, the tone you like does come from the amp's preamp stage, such that leaving the preamp gain high, but the output level low, yields the desired tone (something one usually cannot do with "classic" one and 2-knobbers), then you need to find a way to mimic a master volume. I am confident that can be done easily, however would not classify myself as the ideal source about how to do it.

It may be the case that the tone you want comes from pummeling the input stage, but the volume control is too "twitchy" to let you nail the ideal tone at the ideal volume. In such instances, you might consider simply inserting a fixed resistor in series with the input to the volume pot. This will make the pot behave as if it is a higher value pot that is limited in how high it can be turned up. For instance, a 1M pot with 470k in front of it behaves like a 1.5M pot that can never be turned up past 2/3. Besides lowering the maximum volume, what this also does is redistribute the allowable adjustments over the full rotation of the pot, such that what used to be confined to maybe the zone between 5 and 6 is now spread out over 5-8, improving "dialability".

But ultimately, like I say, the ideal solution is to figure out what aspect of your small amp is critical to nailing your tone.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

This has Timmy/TIM written all over it. These really let your amp's sound shine through and just add some grit. If you want to try a Timmy like pedal without waiting, grab a Danelectro Cool Cat Transparent Overdrive. If you like, contact Paul Cochrane and buy the real deal from him (Dano stole the design of him); Paul's prices are great.

The Red Snapper is also a good suggestion. You may also want to look into a Catlinbread DLS; a little less transparent but it sounds great and very amp like.

The OCD is anything but transparent and is based on a screaming Marshall. The Fatboost is a boost so it will make you louder.

Of course, you may prefer to buy a high quality attenuator instead of a pedal.

TG


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Ho's Attenuator. Expensive - yes. But well worth the price of admission. I can crank my Marshall 18W and talk over it.

http://hoelectronics.com/

Forgot to mention a cheaper alternative. BitMo 10-uator. http://www.bitmomusic.com/products

I built mine as a stand alone attentuator and it works great with my Epi Valve Jr. Since the Champ you are using is only 5W it should work just fine.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Stratin2traynor said:


> Ho's Attenuator. Expensive - yes. But well worth the price of admission. I can crank my Marshall 18W and talk over it.
> 
> http://hoelectronics.com/


The Ho attenuator is great, especially for very low volume stuff. If you don't need whisper levels, also check out the "Alex Attenuator" made buy a guy on TGP (based on the old Sequis Richter attenuator). The Alex is more transparent than the HO at most settings, but the HO is better at really low volume stuff. Can't go wrong with either.

TG


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## Overt1 (Aug 31, 2009)

don't bother with an attenuator if your amp has a master volume. just crank the master to 7 and your preamp volume to just a hair above 0 and you'll get awesome sounds


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

and here i thought this was going to be a thread full of "get a Rat, call it a day" :smile:


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

thanks for all the input everyone- lots to sift through!

keto- thanks- red snapper on my list

bagpipe- thanks- fulltone ocd on my list, sounds good-
pricewise, i figure i could spend several hundred $s on the wrong pedals anyway, so at the price im seeing these at its a definate option

hey pat- that little amp sounds really good. a pepco product, montreal made? i think my little pine and regal amps are similar- 3 watts. perfect for cranking in an apartment- but my current dilemma is getting some use out of my champs.
great tunes on your soundclick page btw pat- 

copperhead- thanks for the link- ill put that one on my list too. i used to have a few of the old ibanez pedals, as well as an sd1- none of them ever got used and i gave them away lol. 

peter- thanks- fulltone fat boost on my list

jes89 and traynor garnet- thanks- ive been looking at timmy/tim- really does seem to be the ticket. few month waiting list lol. theres one on ebay, ill have to keep my eyes open. i think this is the thing- a transparent overdrive.
what im really after i think- because my champs sound great even turned down low- is something that can add some hair to the sound, without smothering the fender goodness.

mhammer- thanks for all the ideas man. you sure know your stuff-
ive actually gone down that road a ways- ive built speaker enclosures, isolation cabinets, played with tubes, made l-pads, tried attenuators, covered the walls of my old apartment in carpet- lol.
then i dissected one of the epiphone valve juniors- added a master volume, then spent weeks fiddling with cap and resistor values- turned it into a great, screaming little thing. breaks up at any volume, and at full bore its truly awesome.
between that little amp and my pod, ive been set up perfectly for a couple years.
but alas, recently i plugged in my champs, in stereo- dug out my sorry little collection of never used pedals, and really am liking it- just need that magic dirt box to make it perfect. hell, i actually purchased a pedal on the forum last week- i needed reverb. never ever thought id be saying i bought a pedal, let alone a reverb lol.

thats not to say im not open to trying things- and i will. im thinking of turning this guitar dispenser aka closet, into some kind of soundproof box.











traynor garnet and stratin2traynor- thanks- attenuator is a good idea- i tried a couple in the past but didnt like them. likely because i didnt try the right ones lol. but i think first im going to try a pedal-

overt1- thanks- but these are old fender champs- 1 volume knob, treble and bass. i could simply pop a m/v in, but i dont think i will. your very right though.

puckhead- yeah it couldve gone that way lol. glad it didnt though- i dunno if a rat would be what i want. or is it?


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

bah- wont let me thank everyone here. whats up with that?


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

fraser said:


> bah- wont let me thank everyone here. whats up with that?


We're thankless :smile:


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> We're thankless :smile:


it appears so m8. just know that in my heart, i thank you all:smile:


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I think you should get a Rat.......9kkhhd

(j/k) Cheers

Dave


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

greco said:


> I think you should get a Rat.......9kkhhd
> 
> (j/k) Cheers
> 
> Dave


good one dave! lol
you know- i just looked for rats on ebay- there are loads of them- not the case with the pedals im looking at-


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