# When is a Tele not a Tele? What is the essence of telenicity?



## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

A friend asked this of another friend on facebook (second friend had posted a photo of his various Teles):

"Is a Tele with humbuckers still a Tele?"

Feel free to delete if this is too political.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Doug Gifford said:


> Feel free to delete if this is too political


I really needed a laugh man, thank you!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Ok, I'll play.

For me a Tele is a Tele as long as it has the long scale, ashtray bridge and two single coils.

Tele Customs can be excellent guitars, but to me, they're not Teles.

Even the body shape is not as important to me as that two single pickup configuration.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

I'm no expert, but the addition of one or more humbuckers (or P90s) removes all tele-ness to me.


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## fogdart (Mar 22, 2017)

Scale length, bolt on neck, traditional bridge, and the Tele bridge pickup are the key ingredients for me. They make more of a difference than body shape or woods used.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Milkman said:


> ... the body shape is not as important to me as that two single pickup configuration.


This.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

A Telecaster is any guitar Fender releases with the name "Telecaster" on the headstock. A boutique build no matter how close to the original specs of a Tele isn't a tele. Thats why I used to call my Crook guitar a Custom Crook T. Not a tele.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Ok, I'll play.
> 
> For me a Tele is a Tele as long as it has the long scale, ashtray bridge and two single coils.
> 
> ...


So this is a Tele then?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> So this is a Tele then?



Does it say "Telecaster" on the headstock?


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

If it has 3 humbuckers and a 24.5" scale, but is on a Tele body, it's a Tele. The body + headstock shapes define Tele, for me.


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## Noodles (12 mo ago)

fogdart said:


> Scale length, bolt on neck, traditional bridge, and the Tele bridge pickup are the key ingredients for me. They make more of a difference than body shape or woods used.


Precisely this, for me anyway.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> So this is a Tele then?


Yes it is (speaking in the spirit of the thread).


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Neither one has Fender on the headstock or anywhere else. One I consider a Tele. The other , not.

We’re speaking figuratively here. If all it takes for a guitar to be a Tele is having been made by Fender….kind of not the spirit of the thread.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> So this is a Tele then?


Such a cool guitar! Please tell me about it.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Yes it is (speaking in the spirit of the thread).


Cool. So then I guess this is a Les Paul?


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Doug Gifford said:


> Such a cool guitar! Please tell me about it.


Fender Meteora


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

To me Fender really decides what the call a Telecaster, everything else is a T style. However for arguments sake are we talking just Classic Telecaster or are we including Fenders variations? To me a Classic Telecaster is any slab body, ash tray bridge, (2) Single Coils and a 25.5" scale. If you want the sub models then you could go to the 69' Thinline, 72' Thinline, 72' Deluxe, Custom which are all variations of the telecaster but not the classic. Back to my original point whatever Fender calls a Telecaster is a Telecaster, may not be the classic model but they are still all in the family.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

For me it’s standard Tele headstock and body, two single coils and made by Fender.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Cool. So then I guess this is a Les Paul?



Well, the sarcasm meter is getting up there, but no, we weren't discussing Les Pauls. I do have my idea of what a Les Paul is however if you wanted to discuss that.

A set neck is kind of important. Three on a side headstock. Controls located where they're supposed to be on a les Paul.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

This is one (maybe)


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

What's the essence of a Corvette? Corvair? Covid? Cormorant? 

Yeah, a Tele needs that bridge pickup first, neck pickup second, controls third, scale fourth, body and headstock shapes fifth, badging sixth. That means my Tele Thinline with two 'buckers ain't a real Tele, but love is blind.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

The term Tele has transcended just being the name of a guitar made by Fender.

In fact, it wouldn't be unreasonable to say that the best "Teles" being made these days are unlikely to be made by Fender. They're probably made by small boutique builders with two to three year waiting lists. 

Technically the only actual Tele is as Guitarman2 has stated but to say those master built non Fender guitars are not Teles, seems off to me.

Tele is almost like Ski Doo, Jet Ski, Kleenix. People tend to use them sort of generically.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

I'm a huge fan of the Telecaster. To me it's the following:
1) Body shape
2) The bridge and bridge pickup
3) It says "Telecaster" on the headstock

I think once you stray from those then you're straying off of what it's supposed to be. I doubt anyone would argue that an HSS Strat isn't a Strat so I don't see how swapping out the neck pickup for anything on a Tele changes that. But when you start changing the body shape, the bridge, and that signature bridge plate mounted pickup... well now you're out in the weeds.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Cool. So then I guess this is a Les Paul?


That's just crazy talk!


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I used to be really picky on the definition. But my teles with filtertrons can get as much twang as a traditional tele, but more versatility with gain. So nowadays I'm less stringent with my tele snobbery.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> I'm a huge fan of the Telecaster. To me it's the following:
> 1) Body shape
> 2) The bridge and bridge pickup
> 3) It says "Telecaster" on the headstock
> ...


If it plays like a Tele and sounds like a Tele, that's close enough for me.

(I do agree about that bridge and pickup)


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I am not a purist about a tele is and should be. I really don't give much of a rat's ass. So I also have no problem with what a tell could be either.


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## BobChuck (Jan 16, 2012)

My answer is…. What ever zztomato is saying

Im currently GASing hard for a Tele.


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## benum47 (Oct 13, 2013)

If you can clobber a stage-crashing fan with it and it doesn't go out of tune, it's a Tele.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Just last month I had zero 'Teles', now I have 2 (one w/ dual split-coil humbuckers). To me, it's more of the body shape (and less the headstock). I'd like to have a Gibson scale Tele for sure and may consider a conversion neck.

Also, I tried out one of those Fender FMT HH Teles last month. Beautiful quality guitar and he only wanted $700 for it - but it weighed a metric tonne, pass.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I sure hope this goes without saying but I'll say it anyway.

I'm not saying that humbucker equipped Teles such as a thinline or a custom aren't dead assed cool guitars. They're just different.

Same goes with a Bigsby on a Tele. It changes it dramatically. Still, very cool.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Strictly speaking, gm2 nailed it. 

Philosophically speaking, it is the body shape and to a lesser degree headstock on that shape. But yes, everything else is legally a T style. Which is probably why boutique brands call them S and T.


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## JBlaze (12 mo ago)

To me, bolt on neck, correct scale, Tele headstock and traditional (no sculpting) body. I could care less about the pickups or switches or Bigsby or top load or any of that, but binding on a Tele does really push it close to being non-Tele.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

😒 😒 😒


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

There is an identifiable Telecaster sound. We associate that sound with a particular body shape and design. The sound itself can be obtained other ways, and the body shape can be used to get other sounds. As the Meteora illustrates, it doesn't have to be THAT body to get the tone, and as all those dual-humbucker or Nashville Teles illustrate, one can have the body shape but get different tones.


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## Gene Machine (Sep 22, 2007)

fogdart said:


> Scale length, bolt on neck, traditional bridge, and the Tele bridge pickup are the key ingredients for me. They make more of a difference than body shape or woods used.


Concur. GE Smith bridge is fine too if 3-saddle. Neck pickup could be anything, or absent.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Powdered Toast Man said:


>


Barf.


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## vanqr (10 mo ago)

A tele has to be really heavy, have sharp; uncomfortable corners where the forearm rests, and sound so good that you don’t care about either of the previous points


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## bluesguitar1972 (Jul 16, 2011)

These are always interesting lol
For the purists out there, does it also need to have a Maple Neck and a 7.25 radius like the original? What about an esquire Tele? What is an evolution for some is an abomination for others.  

To offer my answer, a Tele is a Fender with 2 Tele pickups, proper body, headstock, bridge and 25.5" scale. But I make room for variations on the theme.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Usually I just say it’s a Telecaster so that I don’t have to explain about Broadcasters and all that.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Body shape. That's the whole story. (IMHO)

Also, the minimal "round-over" "plank" look in important. A tele with an extreme round-over, I don't think would be a tele anymore.


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## eatsleepdance (11 mo ago)

is it just me or do telecasters only feel like telecasters when they have a basic look to them? (i.e., butterscotch, black, etc). the more glamorous ones, like the pink paisley or sparkley types just make me feel like I’m not entirely in telecaster territory. I have a blue flower telecaster and I always get that vibe lol


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## morepowder (Apr 30, 2020)

If all it takes is to say telecaster on the headstock? Then the one on the right is a telecaster. And the one on the left is not. 😉


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

For me ,two single coils, thats it. Have tried different variations, 3 single coils, humbuckers, P90 etc.. but nothing comes close to the original.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I had an Aerodyne Tele that was superb with an electronics upgrade. The body contours of that model lightened the weight considerably. The stock neck P-90 like object was anemic at best (I really like a good standard Tele neck pickup, fwiw), but after a couple of other P-90 like objects were tried, a toaster pickup brought it to life. Life changes made me deal the guitar, regrettably. The bound contoured body might disqualify it as a Tele for some folks, but the tone certainly wouldn't. Likewise the bound body of the Protone Thinline.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)




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## NashvilleDeluxe (Feb 7, 2018)

This is Philosophy 101: "What makes a chair a chair?"
Q: "When is a door not a door?"
A: "When it's ajar."

I'll see myself out.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Without the iconic body shape and profile, it could be anything so.... yeah, body and headstock profile.
Everything else is subject to taste, even scale length.
I remember my reaction back in the day when Les Paul Jimmy was getting a lot of the job done on the first album with a tele.
had me fooled......


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## Lefuneste (Apr 27, 2016)

Long scale bolted-on neck and the Tele bridge pickup with a traditional bridge, that's what I think is the essence of telecastitude.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I like Tele flavoured, not necessarily genuine Tele.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

May I change my answer?

Will it be on the test?


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Mooh said:


> May I change my answer?
> 
> Will it be on the test?


Yes, of course. And if you change your mind back to your original, just write "STET" in big letters in the margin.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

Essence of a Tele for me: "this sounds amazing, but I wish it had contours".


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Wardo said:


> Usually I just say it’s a Telecaster so that I don’t have to explain about Broadcasters and all that.
> 
> View attachment 409204


Doesn't get any more tele-castery than a Broadcaster.


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## paraedolia (Nov 26, 2008)

BlueRocker said:


> I'm no expert, but the addition of one or more humbuckers (or P90s) removes all tele-ness to me.


How about a 60s Teisco Gold Foil? 









I'm debating having this nice MJT Tele routed for a neck humbucker ....


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

*Short answer: *Primarily, it's the body shape.

*Long answer:* I think it's a combination of some of those "traditional Tele" characteristics, but not necessarily all of them. For everyone that said "No humbuckers"... then Keith Richards didn't play a Tele? For everyone that said "It's the ashtray bridge"... then the majority of Fender guitars sold as Telecasters for decades with six-saddle bridges (American Standard, American Deluxe, etc.) aren't Teles? I think a Tele Deluxe with its humbuckers, six saddles, tummy contour, and Strat headstock is more of a Tele than the "Offset Telecaster" with its Jazzmaster-shaped body. The former feels like a Tele to hold. When slung over the shoulder the bridge, neck, and everything else are where they belong for a Tele. The Offset Tele, in spite of it's classic Tele bridge, electronics, and headstock, feels totally different to hold. [I think Fender would have called the Offset Tele a "Telemaster" if someone else hadn't already held the trademark for that.]

Perhaps the "classic Tele" features are your preference, but there are lots of Tele variations.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

morepowder said:


> If all it takes is to say telecaster on the headstock? Then the one on the right is a telecaster. And the one on the left is not. 😉
> View attachment 409214


Did it come from the factory that way?


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

For me, it's the body and headstock shape along with the bridge plate and bridge pickup that make a Telecaster. The neck pickup can be a bit flexible. Once you get too much beyond that, then it's still a Telecaster, but it's a Telecaster "Something". Tele Deluxe, Tele Thinline, Tele Custom and so on.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Maybe I'm preparing for ultimate blindness.

For me, a Tele is a Tele if I play one blindfolded and it still feels and sounds like a Tele.


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## morepowder (Apr 30, 2020)

guitarman2 said:


> Did it come from the factory that way?


That's a Fender Custom Shop 2017 Mischief Maker, all original.

Note that the neck is all Strat, other than the headstock.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Maybe I'm preparing for ultimate blindness.
> 
> For me, a Tele is a Tele if I play one blindfolded and it still feels and sounds like a Tele.


The Telecaster name is owned by Fender so really only they can call a guitar a Telecaster and decide what features, from model to model, define a Telecaster. Modern Telecasters can take a lot of liberties. But a small builder, no matter how close they make a classic telecaster, "CAN'T" call it a Telecaster. They can call it a T. 
Hahn calls one of their Tele styled guitars "Model 228".
We as players can call anything we see fit as defined a Telecaster. I used to refer to my Crook custom T as a Tele in casual conversation but it wasn't technically a Tele.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

morepowder said:


> That's a Fender Custom Shop 2017 Mischief Maker, all original.
> 
> Note that the neck is all Strat, other than the headstock.
> View attachment 409301


Since Telecaster is not on the headstock you can't really make the argument that its a telecaster. Theres more strat DNA there than anything. A few summers ago at that Cosmo festival they have I saw Kim Mitchell playing a strat with a Tele neck. Most likely he did that him self. I know there are some models of Telecasters with strat necks. I had one back in the 80's. It had 2 humbuckers, 4 knows with the toggle switch like an LP and a strat shaped headstock. In my opinion a strat body with a tele neck looks nicer than a Tele body with a strat head stock.
My personal opinion of what a Tele is, is quite narrow. My custom shop 52 is pretty much classic except for the radius (9.5 instead of 7.25) and frets, 6150


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## morepowder (Apr 30, 2020)

Look more closely at the headstock...

You are arguing with Fender, not me.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> The Telecaster name is owned by Fender so really only they can call a guitar a Telecaster and decide what features, from model to model, define a Telecaster. Modern Telecasters can take a lot of liberties. But a small builder, no matter how close they make a classic telecaster, "CAN'T" call it a Telecaster. They can call it a T.
> Hahn calls one of their Tele styled guitars "Model 228".
> We as players can call anything we see fit as defined a Telecaster. I used to refer to my Crook custom T as a Tele in casual conversation but it wasn't technically a Tele.


Yes, I think we all get that. It's not really a Tele unless Fender decides it is....

And this isn't a box of kleenix, it's a box of tissues, but how many of us would say. Hey honey can you pass me a tissue? Maybe Mike Myers.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

morepowder said:


> Look more closely at the headstock...
> 
> You are arguing with Fender, not me.


Sorry I don't see "Telecaster" on that strat bodied guitar. I do see "Fender" Could be a combination of bad picture and bad eye sight. Do you have a better pic? I would stand by my earlier comment that Fender can use the name Telecaster however they want. They could build an almost exact replica of a Les Paul and put "Telecaster" on it and thats what it is. And we as players can consider it no more a Telecaster than a boy can be a girl.


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## morepowder (Apr 30, 2020)

Look at the verbiage with my original photo, and the "wink" that accompanied it. Sure, everything on that guitar is Strat other than the headstock. That didn't stop Fender from profiling the headstock to Tele and putting a Telecaster label on it. By one/some of the earlier definitions in this discussion, that makes it a Tele. 

If you want to debate that, carry on sir.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Yes, I think we all get that. It's not really a Tele unless Fender decides it is....
> 
> And this isn't a box of kleenix, it's a box of tissues, but how many of us would say. Hey honey can you pass me a tissue? Maybe Mike Myers.
> View attachment 409307


Slap the name Kleenex on a different brand of Tissue and see what happens. If you ask me I don't care what anyone considers a Tele. But if you're specifically asking what defines a Telecaster then Fender gets to decide. If you take Fender out of the equation and are just asking all of us to give our individual takes well then the question is kind of pointless to a degree as we could say anything. 
Maybe my Martin Authentic 1941 acoustic can qualify because there are no parameters. Just what I decide.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

morepowder said:


> Look at the verbiage with my original photo, and the "wink" that accompanied it. Sure, everything on that guitar is Strat other than the headstock. That didn't stop Fender from profiling the headstock to Tele and putting a Telecaster label on it. By one/some of the earlier definitions in this discussion, that makes it a Tele.
> 
> If you want to debate that, carry on sir.


All I'm saying is that I can't see "Telecaster" on that headstock. I'll take your word for it if you say its there. After all its your guitar. Do you have a better pic?


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Yeah, it's easy to see that players have their own definitions. But I look at it this way:

If one of my favorite artists is playing, let's call it an obvious pseudo-Tele - and he's ripping up the stage w/ talent - I'm going to say he's playing a Tele and that's that. And then later on I'll find the technical details of his guitar on the web.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Never mind. I googled it and got a close up of the head stock where it does say "Telecaster". Even the close up pic, the word "Telecaster is really faint compared to "Fender".


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

LOL the things we argue about around here


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Slap the name Kleenex on a different brand of Tissue and see what happens. If you ask me I don't care what anyone considers a Tele. But if you're specifically asking what defines a Telecaster then Fender gets to decide. If you take Fender out of the equation and are just asking all of us to give our individual takes well then the question is kind of pointless to a degree as we could say anything.
> Maybe my Martin Authentic 1941 acoustic can qualify because there are no parameters. Just what I decide.


Who's talking about forging another company's registered trademark?

There's a pretty huge difference between making copies of public domain designs and applying a logo to a headstock.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

If I have no desire towards it... its a telecaster.

That's the proper way to know for sure.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

I really don't see it as a black and white issue, at least not now in 2022. I think in the 1950's during the Telecaster's early days it was pretty clearly defined but over time it has evolved from being a brand/model to a broader term that decribes a style of guitar and it's many variations even non Fenders.


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## paraedolia (Nov 26, 2008)

morepowder said:


> Note that the neck is all Strat, other than the headstock.


Tommy Bolin had Strat with a Tele neck
Don't know if the heel was modded or the guitar was modded to make it fit. Heel looks kinda square in the pic so my money's on the latter










Here's a pic of my old Telecaster (it even says so on the headstock)


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## Vally (Aug 18, 2016)

For me, if fender labels it as a telecaster it’s a telecaster, no matter the configuration. If it’s any other manufacture, it’s a T style guitar.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

so, what's on the tele tonight?


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

If Fender calls it a Telecaster I'm not going to second guess them. They made it. They get to decide what it's called.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

paraedolia said:


> Here's a pic of my old Telecaster (it even says so on the headstock)
> 
> View attachment 409360


Very nice. Had a '70s Tele Bass with the huge humbucker at the neck, long gone now.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

BobChuck said:


> My answer is…. What ever zztomato is saying
> 
> Im currently GASing hard for a Tele.


A tele must have a Floyd trem!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

People in this thread are really sticking to the intellectual property / legal elements of what makes a Tele a Tele as opposed to what makes a Tele sound and play the way it does.

I mean, if someone put a Les Paul and a boutique made "T" style guitar together in a room and then asked you to hand them the Tele, would you make a fuss and say "There's no Tele there"?

No, most of us would pick up the T style and hand it to the person.

Everybody understands that Fender has the right to put Telecaster on a frigging potato and call it a Telecaster.

Funny.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Everybody understands that Fender has the right to put Telecaster on a frigging potato and call it a Telecaster.


Potatocaster...... Hmmm, maybe I should call my "T style" builds Tomatocasters.


Fender owns Telecaster. Only they can use it. But, whatever. When we discuss guitars that look like a Telecaster, we refer to them as teles.
For me, a tele is the body shape, tele headstock, ashtray footprint bridge and single coil bridge pickup in equal measure.

Fender has telecasters with many configurations. Back in the 70s they introduced the wide range humbucker and put it in a tele- neck and also neck and bridge. In the 80s, I think they did actually make a tele with a Floyd- I could be wrong about that. So yeah, Telecaster is what Fender can use on whatever they want. For me, the parameters are a bit more narrow. But that's just me.
I guess I kind of think of them as what Leo Fender called a Telecaster and also how he viewed his guitars as a collection of parts that could be changed.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

There it is then.

A new guitar name is born. The Tomatocaster.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

For me personally it's not so much about respecting intellectual property rights. For me it's more about opposing a small group of people who think they know better than everyone else, including Fender and that they have the right to decide what is and what is not a Telecaster or Stratocaster. It's not a legal thing. It's an asshole thing. They think they have the right to be dismissive and condescending to others just because their guitar doesn't conform to some arcane standard. We've all seen it happen at some point. Somebody announces they got something new and then some fucking asshole says, "That's not a real Tele because it doesn't have a tin can bridge. Bigsbys don't conform to my standard so that's not a Telecaster." 

I say fuck that guy. Even Leo knew he didn't get it right the first time.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Milkman said:


> There it is then.
> 
> A new guitar name is born. The Tomatocaster.


You say tomato, I say Tele?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

BMW-KTM said:


> For me personally it's not so much about respecting intellectual property rights. For me it's more about opposing a small group of people who think they know better than everyone else, including Fender and that they have the right to decide what is and what is not a Telecaster or Stratocaster. It's not a legal thing. It's an asshole thing. They think they have the right to be dismissive and condescending to others just because their guitar doesn't conform to some arcane standard. We've all seen it happen at some point. Somebody announces they got something new and then some fucking asshole says, "That's not a real Tele because it doesn't have a tin can bridge. Bigsbys don't conform to my standard so that's not a Telecaster."
> 
> I say fuck that guy. Even Leo knew he didn't get it right the first time.



Interesting.

Personally I don't think you're an asshole because you have a different opinion on this subject.

If you're an asshole it's just because you are.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I'm an asshole and I dont even really have an opinion of this subject. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.... although it might be a little rank


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Milkman said:


> There it is then.
> 
> A new guitar name is born. The Tomatocaster.


I thought a tomatocaster was a hostile audience member.


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## eltmatt2006 (Jan 14, 2022)

I think this custom dates back to 1971:










And the deluxe at least to 1974:






Strat style headstock on that one too. I guess it _really i_sn't a tele! : 0

My biggest problem was how ugly I found the pickguards back in the 70s.
Modern HH teles don't have this problem.

Do Esquires not capture the very essence of telecaster-ness? "A rose by any other name..."

Surely we are used to teles of different flavours by now.

I certainly am. : )









It is funny. For me, I was really strongly wedded to the fact that the barrel saddles were an essential on my teles. I have a compensated Rutters bridge on this one. Steel, brass, brass. I still feel that teles don't look right without a traditional bridge plate.
















This style bridge allows for the traditional control plate and pickguard to be used so the HH guitar doesn't look as aesthetically 'untele-like" as some HH guitars

Now I am not convinced it is possible to knock the "teleness" out of a tele. I have never had a full-sized humbucker in the bridge of one but I have had a SD Quarterpounder and Lil '59. They certainly didn't sound like Les Pauls.






This still sounds like a tele to me. But then again I have never had a completely stock telecaster for very long.

Anyway, if putting humbuckers in a telecaster worked for two guys who played as differently as these two guys, who are we to dispute their "telecasterness!"


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## eltmatt2006 (Jan 14, 2022)

paraedolia said:


> Tommy Bolin had Strat with a Tele neck
> Don't know if the heel was modded or the guitar was modded to make it fit. Heel looks kinda square in the pic so my money's on the latter
> 
> 
> ...


I love that you went to the bass with the telecaster reference. Didn't see that coming!

Lowell liked the strat form but obviously needed to catch some of that Telecaster vibe in his bridge pickup and the volume knob. Seems like an outstanding idea to me.


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## eltmatt2006 (Jan 14, 2022)

GuitarT said:


> I really don't see it as a black and white issue, at least not now in 2022. I think in the 1950's during the Telecaster's early days it was pretty clearly defined but over time it has evolved from being a brand/model to a broader term that decribes a style of guitar and it's many variations even non Fenders.


Absolutely, and back in the 50s they had that fuzzy tone circuit on the neck pickup so that tele players could play 'faux bass'.

That is something I don't think anyone wants to be confined to.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Milkman said:


> There it is then.
> 
> A new guitar name is born. The Tomatocaster.


That makes sense because I had a Strat known as the Ketchupcaster.


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## paraedolia (Nov 26, 2008)

What was that weird guitar Gibson released a few years ago that was like a hybrid between a Les Paul Junior and a Tele, even with the Tele pickguard. Made a brief splash on its way into the toilet bowl of Henry Juszkiewicz-era flops.


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## eltmatt2006 (Jan 14, 2022)

Mooh said:


> That makes sense because I had a Strat known as the Ketchupcaster.
> View attachment 409501


I would want a matching ketchup coloured headstock for that one like the "The Strat" models had in the 1980s.

Although. to be fair, I think they were Candy Apple red. I had one like this for a short time. great finishes. Best brass hardware. Great bridge PU ... a little lighter than a Les Paul. ; )








Fender "The Strat" (1980 - 1983) | Reverb Canada


Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.




reverb.com





Gotta do the double ketchum too!


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I love a matching headstock!


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

Milkman said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Personally I don't think you're an asshole because you have a different opinion on this subject.
> 
> If you're an asshole it's just because you are.


Well, maybe nobody was ever belligerent with you on your own NGD post because your guitar didn't conform to their idea of how a 'real' Strat or Tele should be configured. I had a guy tell me over and over again that my AD Strat wasn't a real Strat because it had abalone markers instead of clay, 22 MJ frets instead of 21 VT frets, a 9.5 radius instead of 7.25, a poly finish instead of nitro, sealed tuners instead of Klusons and so on. That is definitely an asshole and it opened my eyes to the fact that opinions can actually prove you're an asshole. I'm not the only person to have somebody shit all over their happy day. It takes an asshole to do that.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Kids! Stop it!

We were having a nice talk about something that actually doesn't matter, not one bit, but is a chance to go blah blah blah and amuse ourselves.

And now you're shouting and calling each other names.

Shame on you! Just stop, please.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Bb Telecaster!


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## eltmatt2006 (Jan 14, 2022)

Mark Brown said:


> View attachment 409591
> 
> 
> 
> Bb Telecaster!


Let's put some D'addarios on and fire her up!

I love Bb!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

eltmatt2006 said:


> Let's put some D'addarios on and fire her up!
> 
> I love Bb!


Your joke was better than my joke... but you sir just made me laugh


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## eltmatt2006 (Jan 14, 2022)

Mooh said:


> I love a matching headstock!


They were great sounding guitars too despite (perhaps because of?) being heavy.









Fender Stratocaster 1880-81-82 Brass/Gold The STRAT Hardware Tremolo, F Knobs, Neck Plate etc | Reverb


You are bidding on a set of Brass Gold Plated Hardware off a 1980 THE STRAT, Fender Stratocaster Guitar. Includes the Tremolo Bridge/Block springs and screws, F Knobs, Neck Plate and screws, Output Jack, and Strap buttons and screws. The parts and screw are all original except the Tremolo Bar i...




reverb.com




You could put the "The Strat" hardware on the Ketchupcaster for only the price of a Mexican strat. 
But I actually think it was the best gold plated hardware that Fender ever produced. Quite thick gold plating over heavy brass.

If you go for that kind of thing

Oops gotta stay on topic. Ketchuptelecaster


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

This one is MIJ and it's going for about $850 not too far from me. If it's lightweight, I may pick it up.


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## eltmatt2006 (Jan 14, 2022)

Pardon my ignorance...
Is that a through-way neck?!

Belly cut...

I'm in love.


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