# Too many solos



## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

Just read this in the latest Premier Guitar magazine and had to share.

"If a guitarist spends 90% of his time on a gig playing rhythm and 10% of his time playing lead, why does he spend 90% of his practice time playing solos?"


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

hardasmum said:


> Just read this in the latest Premier Guitar magazine and had to share.
> 
> "If a guitarist spends 90% of his time on a gig playing rhythm and 10% of his time playing lead, why does he spend 90% of his practice time playing solos?"


Most male guitarists like to impress, firstly the ladies and second any other guitar players present, if you're a female guitarist you do it to impress any other guitar player there. You know your good you just want them to know it as well. Who the hell cares how good you are at rhythm they want to hear the you wail for a while.


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## doriangrey (Mar 29, 2011)

it's logical that we spend more time practicing solos because generally speaking they are harder to execute than rhythm parts...playing a G, Em, C, D progression is one thing but figuring out all the scale patterns and arpeggios and how you can phrase them over the chords is a much more intensive process...

and btw - you can never have too many guitar solos ;o)


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

There are a lot of "good" guitar players out there that can't carry a rythmn. Just sayin'...


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

I guess I like songs and not solos.


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## FrankyNoTone (Feb 27, 2012)

That's what the rhythm guitar player is for. A looper might be better since it doesn't steal your picks, or needs feeding/cleaning/etc.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

I spend very little time practicing solos.

and I am terrible playing Rhythm. worst of both worlds!


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Ha ha ha... I like to think I have a natural talent for rhythm guitar but despare in the fact that I have not a whit of a clue for how to play a solo. It's always been that way since I first started playing, what, 45 years ago? Also, I can sing and play guitar at the same time, but not sing and play bass simaltaniously. I know my scales and theory to a lower level of competance but putting a coherent solo out there just isn't in me. So for me, no, there are not too many solos in my playing, there are none.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

i kind of know my pentatonic. that's about it. not like the back of my hand for sure.

having said that i could sit down for 4 hrs trying to create a solo and come up with nothing creative or inspiring.


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## BIGDC (Aug 16, 2011)

doriangrey said:


> it's logical that we spend more time practicing solos because generally speaking they are harder to execute than rhythm parts...playing a G, Em, C, D progression is one thing but figuring out all the scale patterns and arpeggios and how you can phrase them over the chords is a much more intensive process...
> 
> and btw - you can never have too many guitar solos ;o)


I know what you're saying, but recently I've tried to start looking into rhythm playing a bit deeper (Robben Ford DVD's). Once you start using inversions and substitutions of the basic chords things can get pretty interesting, And, nobody has ever danced to a guitar solo :banana:


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

BIGDC said:


> , And, nobody has ever danced to a guitar solo :banana:


yes, but drunken people with mullets like to play air guitar to them


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

For me I like soloing, though I'm not very good at it. I'm not overly handy with chords though I feel I've improved a lot over the years. I just enjoy picking lines rather than strumming along and enjoy it even more when there's someone else playing at a much higher level than I can.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

Scale know how builds rhythm know how, and vice-versa. Don't segregate, and you'll win. Lol
'


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

BIGDC said:


> And, nobody has ever danced to a guitar solo :banana:


I'd argue that, especially since I am now dating the dancer in question .

There can be too many solos - it should benefit the song as whole, not just your ego (says a lead guitarist *gasp*). There's whole genres devoted to showing off prowess (prog metal anyone? Fusion?), where something that some would consider a lead is actually a rhythm part.

I'd say I'm moderately good at rhythm and decently good at leads. The leads I want to play are usually beyond what my practice level allows me to do. If I sat down for a month with a good hard solo, I'd be able to play it 95% - I just don't sit down like that (though on occasion it happens).

Why do people practice solos so much? Chances are they don't feel confident enough to sing over a chord progression to woo the ladies, just as much as it's more impressive to bend an A to a B on the third string while playing a D on the second (14b16/15, a classic rock bend)


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## 335Bob (Feb 26, 2006)

Swervin55 said:


> There are a lot of "good" guitar players out there that can't carry a rythmn. Just sayin'...


Then the question that comes to mind "Are they truly "good" guitar players?" Just sayin'


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

for myself...when i was learning guitar in school...all my friends would spend their time shredding...but none could hold a rhythm...i practiced the opposite...90% rhythm and 10% lead...

i'm still a better rhythm player than lead, but at the same time...those guys that could only shred gave up playing b/c they couldn't play...


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## geezer (Apr 30, 2008)

If you took away the solos in Jeff Becks' Blow by Blow album or Satrianis' Surfing with the Alien....there wouldn't be anything left . Then there are lots of guitarists
that have the technique but lack a sense of melody( Batio comes to mind) so it gets boring to listen to . I've jammed with lots of guys that could play smokin' licks,
sweep and tap etc. but couldn't put it all together so it meant anything .


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## doriangrey (Mar 29, 2011)

geezer said:


> If you took away the solos in Jeff Becks' Blow by Blow album or Satrianis' Surfing with the Alien....there wouldn't be anything left


I don't think that's a fair statement at all because that's like saying if you took the vocals away from a bad company album there wouldn't be much left...guys like Satriani carry the melody with the guitar rather than a vocal...the melody to 'always with me always with you' by satriani still gives me goose bumps after 20 years... but then I'm the guys who fast forwards to the guitar solo and then rewinds it so I can l listen to the solo 3 times ;o) the guitar solo is the climax for me in lots of songs......take comfortably numb or Time for example - those solos complete the song for me. I guess it comes down to what you like to listen to...


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## BIGDC (Aug 16, 2011)

I was being a bit "tongue in cheek" when I mentioned the dancing thing, but there are three parts to music, rhythm, melody and harmony and a lot of the great "lead" players have a wicked sense of rhythm. In fact a fair number of folks seem to think that rhythm (God, I hate spelling that word) is the most important element


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## geezer (Apr 30, 2008)

Yeah you're probably right doriangrey ...I was jokingly trying to make a point that, with a tight bass and drums you can get by without 
playing rhythm guitar 90% of the time ...with or without a singer. Van Halen would be an example ...it's not like Eddie's strummin' chords 90% of the time.
But if you were playing in a cover band your mileage may vary .


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

335Bob said:


> Then the question that comes to mind "Are they truly "good" guitar players?" Just sayin'


Well there are quite a number of really well know guitarists who very rarely play rhythm, Carlos Santana and BB King play more solos than rhythm. There are others as well. You can't tell me people go to see Santana play rhythm or BB King for that matter, you go to hear them play those solos Oh! those great solos. just sayin'
I agree with Budda the solo should compliment the song not assuage the players ego. I also agree it's much more impressive to bend notes than do some not so exciting rhythm.


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## BIGDC (Aug 16, 2011)

fredyfreeloader said:


> Well there are quite a number of really well know guitarists who very rarely play rhythm, Carlos Santana and BB King play more solos than rhythm.


Both wonderful players, but BB King has said he can't sing and play simultaneously and both him and Santana have always had a strong rhythm section behind them. I guess what I'm saying is that to play a good solo you have to have a strong rhythmic sense and that playing interesting rhythm grooves is an essential part of modern music. Jeff "Skunk" Baxter has an interesting take on the subject here
Jeff Baxter American Guitar technique 1/9 - YouTube


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

BIGDC said:


> Both wonderful players, but BB King has said he can't sing and play simultaneously and both him and Santana have always had a strong rhythm section behind them. I guess what I'm saying is that to play a good solo you have to have a strong rhythmic sense and that playing interesting rhythm grooves is an essential part of modern music. Jeff "Skunk" Baxter has an interesting take on the subject here
> Jeff Baxter American Guitar technique 1/9 - YouTube


I can understand where your coming from, as a good sounding musician must have a good rhythm section behind them be it drums, bass, a good keyboard player, horns or whatever, rhythm is an essential part of what we expect to hear. When I was running Paramount studios and teaching guitar at the same time I made my students learn rhythm from a drummers instruction book, they had to not only count 1 2 3 4 but also keep the drum beats going while strumming the chords on their guitar, that meant each strum was the same as the notations in the music book, down on a bass beat up or down on a snare beat etc. they learned rhythm. I don't know if any of them became famous or even continued with guitar when I started gigging regularly. 
Back in the 1960's I worked with a female folk singer me, her and a classical guitar, I also would use a Gibson Barney Kessel hollow body for a female jazz singer, in both cases we never had any rhythm section just the two of us, a good rhythm player in the background would have made it sound better. Most people still want to hear those solos whether it's BB King style, Santana, Satriani or whoever. I probably spelled some names wrong but hey it's late on a Saturday night.


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## BIGDC (Aug 16, 2011)

fredyfreeloader said:


> I made my students learn rhythm from a drummers instruction book, they had to not only count 1 2 3 4 but also keep the drum beats going while strumming the chords on their guitar, that meant each strum was the same as the notations in the music book, down on a bass beat up or down on a snare beat etc. they learned rhythm. QUOTE]
> 
> Justin Sandercoe has a neat looking app available for developing your internal rhythm sense:
> 
> ...


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

fredyfreeloader said:


> ...I made my students learn rhythm from a drummers instruction book, they had to not only count 1 2 3 4 but also keep the drum beats going while strumming the chords on their guitar, that meant each strum was the same as the notations in the music book, down on a bass beat up or down on a snare beat etc. they learned rhythm.


Way back when I used to teach at a studio in Surrey. At some point I would give my students "rhythm training". For about 5 minutes I would begin lessons with free form right hand up and down strokes with the left hand muting the strings so the student could concentrate on right hand strumming techniques and patterns. It was a fun jam and not unlike a drumming circle. Then I would add chording and muting techniques as the student became more proficient.

I still think that with a good right hand technique, you could get away with more basic left hand technique and get away with it. Of course the same can be said about masterbation I guess.


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## BIGDC (Aug 16, 2011)

And now we're back to playing solo's ...............


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

[QUOTE Justin Sandercoe has a neat looking app available for developing your internal rhythm sense:

The Time Trainer Metronome App by Justinguitar.com


Among other things it's a metronome that will stop clicking for a user-defined number of bars so you can learn to stay on the one with no outside prompts. I'd get it but I'm don't speak "I" and there's no PC version available.[/QUOTE]

I have the Time Trainer on my ipad it's a great learning and teaching tool unfortunately back in the mid 1960's when I was teaching guitar we only had the good old metronome, still used extensively today. Justin is coming out with a version for the Android powered phones and tablets, just not sure how soon it will be available.


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## geezer (Apr 30, 2008)

I was listening to some metal music today and lots of the music consists of fast intricate riffs. The same techniques would be required to play
the main components of the songs in this genre of music, as would be used playing solos in other styles . Also it seems common that the rhythm is based
around the riffs , not playing the guitar parts over the rhythm . Of course I could be full of BS .


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

fredyfreeloader said:


> Well there are quite a number of really well know guitarists who very rarely play rhythm, Carlos Santana and BB King play more solos than rhythm. There are others as well. You can't tell me people go to see Santana play rhythm or BB King for that matter, you go to hear them play those solos Oh! those great solos. just sayin'
> I agree with Budda the solo should compliment the song not assuage the players ego. I also agree it's much more impressive to bend notes than do some not so exciting rhythm.


the thing with this though is...any more, Santana is just wanking on guitar...there's little melody, it's just him throwing notes in between whatever singers words he's got


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## aftermidnight (Oct 11, 2009)

ezcomes said:


> ... any more, Santana is just wanking on guitar...there's little melody ....


Big Sanata fan here ....... but can't argue with this.

Santana has figured out that wanking on top of a strong rhythm section is right in his retirement fund wheelhouse .......... which may (or may not) lead us to the other thread regarding the importance of a strong sense of rhythm in music.

He did do some incredible melodic stuff though ....... Samba Pa Ti comes to mind.

(Time to put the keyboard away ......... and get the guitar out!)


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Back in the 60s and 70s, I used to go dances and concerts to hear the guitar solos. 

Yeah, so I was weird.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

. A great player.Period.

[video=youtube;m8geCFUwOko]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8geCFUwOko[/video]


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## 335Bob (Feb 26, 2006)

fredyfreeloader said:


> Well there are quite a number of really well know guitarists who very rarely play rhythm, Carlos Santana and BB King play more solos than rhythm. There are others as well. You can't tell me people go to see Santana play rhythm or BB King for that matter, you go to hear them play those solos Oh! those great solos. just sayin'
> I agree with Budda the solo should compliment the song not assuage the players ego. I also agree it's much more impressive to bend notes than do some not so exciting rhythm.


However, if you asked either of those guitarists to play rhythm through a whole song, I bet they would be tight, in the pocket and creative. IMHO, a great guitarist has to have the whole package. Someone mentioned Jeff Beck, great example of well-rounded lead and rhythm playing. Joe Bonamassa is another, the list could go on and on. Excellent lead playing demands that you have good rhythm and phrasing. Otherwise, solos would be just a bunch of acrobatics and speed which might impress for awhile but grows old real quick without good rhythm and melody. Again, just my opinion.


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

+1 - Well said....


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## BIGDC (Aug 16, 2011)

Robert1950 said:


> Back in the 60s and 70s, I used to go dances and concerts to hear the guitar solos.
> 
> Yeah, so I was weird.


So did I but I didn't dance to them .............. I did however play air guitar and make weird faces :food-smiley-004:


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

335Bob said:


> However, if you asked either of those guitarists to play rhythm through a whole song, I bet they would be tight, in the pocket and creative. IMHO, a great guitarist has to have the whole package. Someone mentioned Jeff Beck, great example of well-rounded lead and rhythm playing. Joe Bonamassa is another, the list could go on and on. Excellent lead playing demands that you have good rhythm and phrasing. Otherwise, solos would be just a bunch of acrobatics and speed which might impress for awhile but grows old real quick without good rhythm and melody. Again, just my opinion.


You're quite right all of them can play rhythm but would you be happy to go and see any one of those guitarists play nothing except rhythm for an entire show say two hours worth of rhythm by Santana, Bonamassa, Beck, BB KIng or any other well known guitarist. I don't believe any one would be pleased paying the high prices they charge to see these people to have them play rhythm only, no solos, the solo is what brings you and everyone else out to their show. Their reputation is built on the individual sound of each players solos and their show. Not much show if there is no screaming guitar solo.


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## 335Bob (Feb 26, 2006)

I was simply pointing out the overall ability of a great guitarist which equally involves both good solo and rhythm skills. Not the entertainment value of a guitar solo. IMHO, a guitar solo doesn't necessitate advanced skills to be entertaining or evoke emotion. But that's a whole other topic/thread.


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## BIGDC (Aug 16, 2011)

BIGDC said:


> Jeff "Skunk" Baxter has an interesting take on the subject here
> Jeff Baxter American Guitar technique 1/9 - YouTube


I apologize .... it's part 4 were he starts discussing rhythm playing


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## 335Bob (Feb 26, 2006)

Gotta love Jeff. Great musician and also an informed weapons expert/consultant....what a mix! LOL.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Do you guys ever play riffs that some would call rhythm and lead at once? When I'd jam with some of my friend's, I'd be playing a little thing I came up with and they'd call it playing rhythm and lead at the same time. On my planet, it's just a metal rhythm part *L*


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

Budda said:


> Do you guys ever play riffs that some would call rhythm and lead at once? When I'd jam with some of my friend's, I'd be playing a little thing I came up with and they'd call it playing rhythm and lead at the same time. On my planet, it's just a metal rhythm part *L*


I'll ask one question to see if I'm heading in the right direction. Are you using intervals, triads and some 4 note chords interspersed with single note lead as opposed to single note lead or chorded rhythm by themselves? If so I have an idea what you are doing. What you are suggesting sounds similar to what many people called southern rock.


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## SaviArt (Mar 1, 2012)

It's the improvisation, searching for ideas and creating something beautiful. Someone likes shredding, other like 3 note bluessy lick playing. It takes much time to find your playing in the ocean of guitar music. I think that's why guitarists spend 90% their time in soloing


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## jeremy_green (Nov 10, 2010)

To me it's all about following what you are passionate about. If practicing solos makes you happy do it. If not don't. This is why the world has so many distinct and wonderful musical voices. Perhaps your musical voice is that of a great lead player... Perhaps your voice will be defined by your intense rhythms, perhaps by wonderful voice leading, perhaps by tone... Is any of these greater than the other if done well? 

It has nothing to do with logic and everything to do with your very individual genetic stew.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

fredyfreeloader said:


> I'll ask one question to see if I'm heading in the right direction. Are you using intervals, triads and some 4 note chords interspersed with single note lead as opposed to single note lead or chorded rhythm by themselves? If so I have an idea what you are doing. What you are suggesting sounds similar to what many people called southern rock.


I can half-assedly (IMO) play southern metal, but this is usually a bit more technical. for example, if you listen to www.soundclick.com/thebuddaproject any slugeater tracks or the foxfight idea, it might show what I mean.

I'm definitely using intervals and probably triads, and I don't know if I do the single note leads in between you mentioned.

I also didn't see this until a few months after the response :/


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

Because I sing and because I write songs (where most of my time is spent) I play a lot fewer leads when practicing. I did spend a long time trying to figure out basic scales and how they relate to chords and playing lead, but, once I got mediocre at soloing I went back to mostly rhythm playing. When I solo I usually think in terms of melody (i.e., as a vocal line) rather than scale patterns. My fingers know the guitar better than my conscious mind does, so they just play what I "sing" (usually) and it all kind of works out.

WRT people who can't play rhythm, I think that no matter how well you solo, if you're throwing off the singer with crappy time or wrong chords you're not going to be paying with other people very long. Basic competence for rhythm playing is easier to master, but it's also more essential than flashy lead playing.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

[sweeping generaliziation]
Most good soloists think in terms of melody, not scale patterns. Scale patterns come to mind to see if they help create the melody the player is after.
[/sweeping generalization]


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

Re-reading some to this thread made me think of the time I saw Buddy Guy live. All he did was sing and solo. Rhythm was up to the hired guns. Talk about a beautifully self-indulgent gig if you can get it.


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