# NAD



## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

I auditioned it next to a ‘64 handwired Princeton in stores and although they are both contain more hiss than I would like, this one was much quieter and at a lower frequency.​


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## Xevyn (Jul 14, 2021)

Nice! That amp looks familiar, did you pick it up from Sherwood Music?


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I sold one to @Alex that I really liked. I can't remember what model, but it sounded amazing with a $30 drive pedal. I can't remember the name of that either.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Xevyn said:


> Nice! That amp looks familiar, did you pick it up from Sherwood Music?


That is the one. I walked away with a really good impression of the store.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Adcandour said:


> I sold one to @Alex that I really liked. I can't remember what model, but it sounded amazing with a $30 drive pedal. I can't remember the name of that either.


I tried 3 models in the store and they all sounded phenomenal out of the box bone stock. My reason for changing caps was purely based on my interest in Milkman amps and my compulsion to study the circuit and understand what does what.


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## Xevyn (Jul 14, 2021)

Always12AM said:


> That is the one. I walked away with a really good impression of the store.


Same here..I am in the GTA but I came across them when the lockdown first started last year when I was looking for a Greer Lightspeed OD pedal. I have since purchased a few guitars from them and they have been just awesome to deal with - even post sales...I bought a Squier JM Jazzmaster that had a badly cut nut and they replaced it under warranty with a bone nut free of charge.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Adcandour said:


> I sold one to @Alex that I really liked. I can't remember what model, but it sounded amazing with a $30 drive pedal. I can't remember the name of that either.


Headstrong Santa Cruz 5 - I agree, that was a great amp.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Xevyn said:


> Same here..I am in the GTA but I came across them when the lockdown first started last year when I was looking for a Greer Lightspeed OD pedal. I have since purchased a few guitars from them and they have been just awesome to deal with - even post sales...I bought a Squier JM Jazzmaster that had a badly cut nut and they replaced it under warranty with a bone nut free of charge.


Huge space, lots of cool gadgets, great staff!
If they ever amend their “no return policy” I will definitely be back with envelopes full of money.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

A well organized website too...I like their selection system.


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

Alex said:


> Headstrong Santa Cruz 5 - I agree, that was a great amp.


I ended up with that very Santa Cruz 5 — and I still have it today. I bought it off Alex in ~2017 What an amp! I’ve got a 6L6 in there right now and it sounds great. Running it through a Dr Z cab with a Celestion Blue is still the best sound I’ve ever achieved with an amp.

I was surprised to open it up and discover it is serial #001!


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

Always12AM said:


> I decided to do another thing that many would disagree with and add a bright cap to the volume knob.. I enjoy it and benefit from it at the squirrel fart volumes that I use amps at.


I’m thinking of installing a bright push/pull pot on mine as well.


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## Fox Rox (Aug 9, 2009)

Congrats on the new amp @Always12AM. I still miss mine, and I think it is the favourite amp I have owned.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Greenbacker said:


> I’m thinking of installing a bright push/pull pot on mine as well.


In the long run, I might make the second input jack a bright switch toggle and mute. It’s nice to have the option. I’ve also been in Deluxe reverb territory for over a year where treble beyond 6 is thin vs a Princeton where I’m having to run it at 6-8 just to get that clarity I want. Could be a pot, but I’ve had Princeton’s in the past and it wasn’t far off.

I don’t know why so many fight the idea of a bright cap or a treble bleed as it only appears at low volumes to assist clarity.


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

Sounds like a good fix! I reached out to Headstrong and he suggested I add the bright cap as well. If you want it bright, make it bright! You can always reverse this stuff anyway. 

That music store looks great. Looks like they might regularly carry Headstrong stuff, eh? I’ll check ‘em our next time I’m through there.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Greenbacker said:


> Sounds like a good fix! I reached out to Headstrong and he suggested I add the bright cap as well. If you want it bright, make it bright! You can always reverse this stuff anyway.
> 
> That music store looks great. Looks like they might regularly carry Headstrong stuff, eh? I’ll check ‘em our next time I’m through there.



I believe it was their first shipment, they have a lot of very nice stuff in the custom shop room. Some hand wired Marshall’s Vox’s and Fenders as well. Just make sure you are good and sure that you want something before you purchase from a store with a no return policy.

Great staff and they seem very reasonable in terms of exchanges.


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## jellodog (Jul 18, 2021)

I keep coming back to this thread. The Lil' King is probably my ideal tube amp. I don't need big iron and I don't need massive decibels; just pure sweet tone and a little vintage reverb.

Having said, that I recently sold my house and am now living in an apartment for at least a year; maybe longer.

And so the Santa Cruz 5 would probably be a more sensible choice for me, if I want to use a non MV tube amp. Even pushed cleans are going to be too much with a Princeton-class amp, if I'm trying to keep things under 82 db.

Exciting to hear positive vibes from @Greenbacker concerning the SC-5. Is the SC-5 your main amp and does it satisfy you enough for those vintage BF fender tones that you don't feel that your wanting for anything else?


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

jellodog said:


> I keep coming back to this thread. The Lil' King is probably my ideal tube amp. I don't need big iron and I don't need massive decibels; just pure sweet tone and a little vintage reverb.
> 
> Having said, that I recently sold my house and am now living in an apartment for at least a year; maybe longer.
> 
> ...


First off, you are correct in that this amp is too loud for a condo / apartment. You can get usable sounds from it at low volumes. But stock, it will be too dark.

I’ve done a lot to this amp to make it more usable at lower volumes.

_Something to take into consideration is that these amps are mojotone kits. So if you are able to solder, you can build one for 1/2 of the price._

The first thing I did upon buying this amp was to replace the filter and signal caps with Jupiters. Not mandatory, but I like these caps a lot. Secondly, I replace all of the plate l resistors with higher wattage metal film resistors. That still didn’t take away the inherent hum / hiss from the amp. I replaced the artificial center tap resistors with metal film, replaced the bias diode and carbon comp resistor, elevated the high voltage directly to the B+ ground of the cap can, replaced all of the input jack resistors with metal film, upgraded all of the silver mica caps with tighter tolerances, I increased the capacitance of one of them, I added shielded wire to both of the grids of V1 and then added a bright cap to the volume knob. Lastly I added diodes to the rectifier. I swapped out the V1 tube with an RCA 7025, V2 with a vintage Mullard 12AT7 and then other two preamp tubes with standard tung sol reissues. I swapped the 6V6’s to Mullard reissues and biased the amp fairly cold (60-64%).

I don’t like eminence speakers at all, so I tried a Jupiter 12SC which was very nice, a Jupiter 12LCP (didn’t like in this amp), Neo Creamback (also nice) but have landed on a modern Jensen C12N which is by far the best sounding speaker in this amp in my opinion. I am biased because I love Jensen speakers.

The end result is that the amp is both quieter mechanically as well as in terms of gain. The tremolo is much stronger, the reverb is more tameable, the mid scoop is increased slightly by how clear the top end is even at low volumes and the speaker is punchy and clear with a nice round low end.

I don’t think this has as much to do with the caps as much as the values of the tone stack, resistors and speaker and the tube changes.


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## jellodog (Jul 18, 2021)

Thank you @Always12AM, for your thoughts and futher details on this topic. You have given me a good deal to think about.

It's funny that you should mention a self-build. I have indeed been considering a build for some time. I own a decent Hakko soldering iron and I've soldered effect pedal clones and a few other things over the years. I've been reading through a lot of the Robinette material too.

So a build is tempting. One piece of advice that I keep getting from various builder forums is that a circuit like the AA1164 (containing both reverb and tremolo) is thought to be little too much for a first time amp builder - most notably in the increased difficulty in troubleshooting and diagnosing issues with the circuit. So this has made me wary and put me off starting such an endeavor. On the other hand, I don't really fancy investing time and money in an easier circuit like a small tweed amp, because I probably wouldn't play it.

But your words have made me consider this again and a plan is formulating. Even though the Princeton Reverb is too loud for my current apartment, if I were to start a build, I suspect that it would take me many months to bring it to fruition. I have a full time job and other obligations, so it would defintely be a slow build process.

So perhaps I could build the amp during a period of my life where playing would be inappropriate; but by the time it is finished, I may have moved on to a property where I can play it. It would be quite the excercise in delayed gratification for sure.


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## jellodog (Jul 18, 2021)

Follow-up thoughts:

I'd really like to have a go at building something like the SC-5 and forgo the tremolo in a Princeton build. As much as I love bias tremolo I could live without it. This would be an easier first time build.

But of course there are no published circuits for this. I appreciate that it's pretty much just a Princeton-style preamp (with Super Reverb tone stack) married to a BF Champ power section; but without knowing the correct component values to marry the two sections together, it's unlikely that I'd be successful.

But if anyone _*has*_ seen this circuit published in the wild, I'd be interested in having a look at that.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

jellodog said:


> Follow-up thoughts:
> 
> I'd really like to have a go at building something like the SC-5 and forgo the tremolo in a Princeton build. As much as I love bias tremolo I could live without it. This would be an easier first time build.
> 
> ...


It’s funny you should mention this, because This:





Princeton Reverb Delete


Fender blackface Princeton Reverb with reverb and tremolo deleted



robrobinette.com





This is the next thing I’d like to build ^^.
Either a full scale Princeton with reverb and tremolo deleted or a 1 watt micro. This does require finding parts and ordering skills mainly. It also requires drilling holes in a blank chassis if you don’t want to pay for the full Princeton kit etc.

I have been wrestling with a 5E3 build for the last couple of months:































I started by French polishing the tweed and aging the pine on the inside of the cab, I’ve studied the circuit for a while so I had no issues populating the fibre board. I measured all of the components which again, I decided to upgrade from the kit.

First assembly and power up went well, all of the voltages were in range, no issues with any of the pots or tubes etc… but when I turn up the tone knob at all, as soon as the wiper leaves it’s ground, a disguising buzz is introduced. When either of the volume knobs are grounded to 0, a hum or buzz us introduced.

I’ve used shielded wire on both of the grids of V1, I’ve tried other tubes, other bright caps, tone Grounding caps, I’ve replaced all of the input jacks, I’ve checked for continuity across all of the B+ connections. I’ve tried about 4 different grounding techniques, I’ve elevated and un elevated the high voltage red and yellow twice. I’ve reflowed soldered to every connection, I’ve flown and unflown the heater wires etc, still no matter what I do, the amp buzzes like shit when tone is introduced or when either volume is at zero.

I’ve taken several long breaks from this build and am now contemplating turning it into a tweed Princeton or a Harvard or a champ on one channel and a Harvard on the other lol. I have owned a deluxe before and it was by no means a quiet amp, but I thought I could fix that using the benefit of so many documented suggestions and solutions. Still fighting with it. This is simply to say that kits “work” but even someone who has some experience and knowledge may struggle with a kit simply due to tracking down one issue. Be patient with your first kit.


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## jellodog (Jul 18, 2021)

Nice lead dress and very tidy!

That buzz issue must be so frustrating. Does the buzz happen on all inputs? Or even when nothing is plugged in at all?

There was a post on this forum from a few years back where a guy was saying that his 5E3 input jacks were overtightened and they shorted to ground. But as you say, you've already replaced the jacks once.

Presumably there is a ground to the chassis under your circuit board? Similar in intent to this slightly less traditional build:










Clearly, I've never built this amp and have no real experience in building one (yet), but I am now invested in the story of your amp; so I feel compelled to try and ask helpful questions anyway. Even though they probably aren't helpful!


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

jellodog said:


> Nice lead dress and very tidy!
> 
> That buzz issue must be so frustrating. Does the buzz happen on all inputs? Or even when nothing is plugged in at all?
> 
> ...


Originally, one of the input jacks had a shunt that wasn’t connecting to the tip, so it wouldn’t ground. The buzz happens in every input and even when nothing is plugged in.

In this photo I think they have used isolated input jacks and a speaker jack. Also looks like all the pots are grounded to a star ground on the right and the Center and high voltage tap are grounded with the filter caps on the top left.

I’m going to try to isolate each channel and see if it only effects one. I don’t know what’s going on, but it could be that the circuit is brutal and everyone else simply deals with it and claims that it’s “mojo”. But for me, I can’t imagine anyone being ok with the darkness of the amp with the tone knob not at at least 7/10.


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

jellodog said:


> Exciting to hear positive vibes from @Greenbacker concerning the SC-5. Is the SC-5 your main amp and does it satisfy you enough for those vintage BF fender tones that you don't feel that your wanting for anything else?


Hey bud — sorry for the late response here. I read your message and have been contemplating whether or not I should offer it up to you for sale but it might be too good to do so. haha

It is a very good amp. I _would_ say it is my main amp because it covers a lot of ground and is, in my mind, the perfect mix of everything: low wattage, great reverb, princeton sized, 12" speaker... I get all the BF tones out of it for my needs. The easy tube swap offers some more tonal/headroom options too. I like a 6L6 in it, personally. I had a bright cap installed on a push/pull pot which does help to retain a bit more sparkle at lower/apt volumes too. It's awesome.

If you are interested in buying mine, send me a DM and maybe we can work something out.


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