# Musicians friend-do we pay duty?



## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

I'm thinking of ordering some stuff-when I go to check out it just adds shipping-will I get hit for duty as well?


----------



## db62 (Sep 18, 2007)

Yes, I believe that if it's being shipped from the US to you in TO then you'll be hit for duty upon delivery.


----------



## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

db62 said:


> Yes, I believe that if it's being shipped from the US to you in TO then you'll be hit for duty upon delivery.


 I called them and they said all the charges are included in the checkout price. We shall see.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

keefsdad said:


> I called them and they said all the charges are included in the checkout price. We shall see.


I just got an order in from them this week. I paid taxes upon delivery, no duty.


----------



## db62 (Sep 18, 2007)

Another thought - if what you buy is made in the US it may be exempt from duty by virutue of Free Trade/NAFTA. Forgot that CAD taxes will be applicable. Also, this was in the fine print of MF's Canadian section: "Please note that you may be responsible for payment of duties or other import taxes applicable to your order."


----------



## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

>_> yes, "Free" trade means no duty. Any of the Free Trade partner nations should have no import duty/tariff attached to their products in or out. Many nations don't impose taxations too though we still do.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

db62 said:


> Another thought - if what you buy is made in the US it may be exempt from duty by virutue of Free Trade/NAFTA. Forgot that CAD taxes will be applicable. Also, this was in the fine print of MF's Canadian section: "Please note that you may be responsible for payment of duties or other import taxes applicable to your order."


Yes, all of these places basically distance themselves from any import/duty charges. They are saying in essence "this is our charge" they dont consider any charges that may or may not be levied by any government, it is in essence, none of their concern as they do not charge it. The item I received this week was made in the USA therefore I was charged the HST upon delivery. So always keep in the back of your mind that the order may be subject to taxes and import duties. The seller, no matter who they are does not really concern themselves with that part of it. However, I may add that I posted a thread last week regarding Guitar Center shipping to Canada and on their website they indicate that their total includes the duty. This was interesting as I have never seen that before.


----------



## db62 (Sep 18, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Yes, all of these places basically distance themselves from any import/duty charges. They are saying in essence "this is our charge" they dont consider any charges that may or may not be levied by any government, it is in essence, none of their concern as they do not charge it. The item I received this week was made in the USA therefore I was charged the HST upon delivery. So always keep in the back of your mind that the order may be subject to taxes and import duties. The seller, no matter who they are does not really concern themselves with that part of it. However, I may add that I posted a thread last week regarding Guitar Center shipping to Canada and on their website they indicate that their total includes the duty. This was interesting as I have never seen that before.


Well put, but I remain skeptical that GC would factor Canadian duty fees into their price - I can't imagine an American retailer going through the motions of remitting the duty it collected to the Canadian tax authorities. Here's a decent overview of online shopping and shipping to Canada: Shopping and Shipping Across the Canadian Border - Shipping to Canada


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

db62 said:


> Well put, but I remain skeptical that GC would factor Canadian duty fees into their price - I can't imagine an American retailer going through the motions of remitting the duty it collected to the Canadian tax authorities. Here's a decent overview of online shopping and shipping to Canada: Shopping and Shipping Across the Canadian Border - Shipping to Canada


Ya, I would love to get down to the bottom of that one. I find it hard to beleive myself. Why would they bother with that? But that is what it says on the website. If anyone happens to order from them let us know.


----------



## Built4Speed (Aug 31, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Ya, I would love to get down to the bottom of that one. I find it hard to beleive myself. Why would they bother with that? But that is what it says on the website. If anyone happens to order from them let us know.


I think It has less to do with MF and more to do with the shipping company. I know when I've ordered my Agile guitars from Rondo in the states, the shipping quote via Fedex was all inclusive. I didn't have to pay a dime when it got to my door.


----------



## Brennan (Apr 9, 2008)

Built4Speed said:


> I think It has less to do with MF and more to do with the shipping company. I know when I've ordered my Agile guitars from Rondo in the states, the shipping quote via Fedex was all inclusive. I didn't have to pay a dime when it got to my door.


Yup, FedEx and UPS (as well as others, I would imagine) both offer shipping packages that cover all taxes and duty fees when shipping abroad. I would imagine this is what Guitar Center is using.


----------



## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

I spoke to a rep a while ago who's higher up in the chain and he said that
most of the products will cross the border using their own shipper and duties will be paid by them.
I would imagine that the products are already here in Canada and they have their own warehouse here.
The shipper will then send the package within Canada using a Canadian address.
Being posted locally, the package does not warrant additional duties yet the part about taxes is a bit unclear.


----------



## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

I just placed an order for a lap steel, so I'll report back.
Does anyone have one of their Rogue lap steels?
It's dirt cheap, so I'm not expecting too much, but hopefully it will be fun to fool around on.


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

If they don't process anything - you pay taxes and brokerage fees on Nafta built items. For non-Nafta made items you can add 6% duty. Brokerage depends on who's doing the shipping. Canada Post is $5.00. UPS in an arm and a leg and a pint of blood.


----------



## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

If it's made in North America, you don't have to pay duty. To avoid brokerage fees, insist on USPS and Canada Post. You'll only pay the HST.


----------



## Schectertastic (Jul 12, 2010)

keefsdad said:


> I'm thinking of ordering some stuff-when I go to check out it just adds shipping-will I get hit for duty as well?


The answer is YES, you will be hit with duty on any product that IS available through a Canadian retailer or distributor, because you buying from the states does nothing to benefit the Canadian economy, so think of duty as a little "penalty" for trying to avoid supporting your local Canadian shops and distributors  . Most of the time even stores have to pay duty if the items are coming to them direct from a U.S. company if a similar product is available in Canada produced by Canadian manufacturers (i.e. a Godin should be MUCH cheaper for a similar style and content guitar than a Fender strat produced in the U.S. because it's produced here). This is just what I have been told from people I know who work retail, and when I was in retail for about a half dozen years this was the case. 

Sometimes when something you see on MF is cheaper by $50, you'll end up paying double because your duty fees will be compounded IF that specific item is available for purchase in your province anywhere. I bought a Jackson bass once off ebay, and even though it was discontinued and there was a newer model, the one I bought for $200 U.S. with $50 shipping got it as far as the border, and 2 months later I got a bill from UPS for another $78.25 in duty, GST, and other "fees"....they told me I didn't get the bill right away because "it's december and we don't like invoicing people at that time of year"....I was WAY more pissed after I'd had the thing for 2 months and ended up paying another $78 out of nowhere. 

It is also illegal for them to mark it as a "gift", which can circumvent duty costs. Any business that does this is fined through the nose and the risk just isn't worth it, even many ebay based stores are no longer marking items as "gifts" for fear of owing the U.S. government metric buttloads of fines if they are caught.

So a)...try support your local stores or there won't be anymore to buy from in the future even if it's maybe $20-$50 more, it'll be cheaper, and ALSO bear in mind, your serial # and warranty are through the U.S. dealer, which may not be the Canadian dealer...therefore any warranty work the onus is on YOU to ship it back to the states at your cost...buying it here means your dealer can take care of all that for you at little to no additional cost (sometimes one way shipping maybe for $20, but usually it's saving you hundreds in repairs for major issues).

Just not worth it in my opinion, and I don't want to be buying everything sight unseen from the internet within 10 years either, and sites like MF are leading us in that direction....

/end rant, sorry


----------



## Schectertastic (Jul 12, 2010)

Samsquantch said:


> If it's made in North America, you don't have to pay duty. To avoid brokerage fees, insist on USPS and Canada Post. You'll only pay the HST.


I've heard they get around this little bit if the product contains materials from elsewhere. i.e. why a godin acoustic gets hit with duty to the U.S. because the 5% of the guitar that isn't Canadian wood is just the bridge and fretboard. Also the American fenders and Martin Acoustics are still chalk full of duty fees because of Brazilian Rosewood/South American Mahoganies and other protected and imported items in the content of the instrument, even though it is "assembled" here in North America.


----------



## Lemonhand (Oct 18, 2009)

Any product made in Canada, the USA or Mexico is covered under NAFTA so there's no duties involved. I have never heard of them adding duty based on the origin country of the components but who knows? You may avoid paying duties on things made elsewhere in the world, but you may not - you'll almost always have to pay unless the value of the item is under $20 and its sent via the postal system. The amount you're charged varies according to what the country of origin is and what the product is - there are varying duties on different items. Some companies in the USA use a shipping service that calculates these charges for you and adds them to your bill, but most don't do this. Express freight companies like FedEx and UPS have different levels of service which may or may not include customs brokerage of your items. If you get something overnight air, you probably won't pay the brokerage fee but if you ship it ground you will. If you ever want to get schooled on duties and customs charges, travel outside Canada and come back in through Montreal - their customs agents are very thorough. The best way to find out is to call the Canadian Border Services Agency and tell them exactly what you want to import, where its from and how much it costs. Sometimes you can get a great deal, but you have to know all the ins and outs.


----------



## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

Schectertastic said:


> I've heard they get around this little bit if the product contains materials from elsewhere. i.e. why a godin acoustic gets hit with duty to the U.S. because the 5% of the guitar that isn't Canadian wood is just the bridge and fretboard. Also the American fenders and Martin Acoustics are still chalk full of duty fees because of Brazilian Rosewood/South American Mahoganies and other protected and imported items in the content of the instrument, even though it is "assembled" here in North America.


I've never heard of that happening, and how often is a Customs official going to take the time, or have the time to check where each individual component of a guitar originates from?


----------



## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

Schectertastic said:


> The answer is YES, you will be hit with duty on any product that IS available through a Canadian retailer or distributor, because you buying from the states does nothing to benefit the Canadian economy, so think of duty as a little "penalty" for trying to avoid supporting your local Canadian shops and distributors


 If a guitar ships from the States, but it is an Ibanez, of course you pay duty because the guitar was not made in North America. If the guitar was made in North America, you do not owe any duty. That's what the NAFTA stipulates.


----------



## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Robert1950 said:


> If they don't process anything - you pay taxes and brokerage fees on Nafta built items. For non-Nafta made items you can add 6% duty. Brokerage depends on who's doing the shipping. Canada Post is $5.00. UPS in an arm and a leg and a pint of blood.


This is what happened with the pedal I won in the last giveaway here--there was a notice you could pay something as the prize was shipped form the US.
I had to go to a post office/outlet and I paid $5 as Robert mentioned and 5% GST (No PST in Alberta), so all in all pretty cheap for a pedla that would have cost me over $300 when you add in shipping & handling.
Strymon pedals are made in the US--my only pedal made outside of Asia (Most were made in Japan.)


----------



## Schectertastic (Jul 12, 2010)

Samsquantch said:


> I've never heard of that happening, and how often is a Customs official going to take the time, or have the time to check where each individual component of a guitar originates from?


You can't grow rosewood anywhere in North America, also have you ever seen the amount of paperwork that comes into Canada from a Martin or Taylor guitar? they're made stateside and still carry a flat "brokerage" duty fee for the dealer, so there's still something to pay there, most of the time if you're ordering it direct you're going to have to pay that fee, and I heard a rumour there's some new charge relating to the export of any item containing real mother of pearl out of the U.S., overheard guys at a local shop mentioning each Martin they bring in now has to be checked by a special "fish and wildlife" expert related to the mother of pearl in it, and this is a $138 fee per item that contains it. Don't know if it's like what happened back in the day with crocodile skin and tortoise shell and ivory even prior to that, but seems that way.


----------



## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

you guys are way too paranoid. 
i have shipped guitars to Canada from the USA that had tortoise shell , brazilian rosewood, mother of pearl, and nobody said boo. the Customs agents went by the paperwork and all they cared about was collecting the GST and PST. there is no "duty" payable on Guitars made in Canada, USA, Mexico that are shipped between those countries. if the guitar is made in Japan, Korea, China etc there may be duties applied (roughly 6% range). 
as for brokerage fees, if you are importing privately you can avoid paying any brokerage by acting as your own brokerage agent. this simply means you get the papers together and go to your Customs office, declare the guitar and pay the taxes. no brokerage fee involved.
if you are importing other stuff, like amps, or pedals or other equipment, you may be subject to different rules but all you have to do is contact your local Customs office to find out the details before you agree to buy or ship goods over the border. its not some secret. the information is available to anyone who asks.


----------



## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

six-string said:


> you guys are way too paranoid.
> i have shipped guitars to Canada from the USA that had tortoise shell , brazilian rosewood, mother of pearl, and nobody said boo. the Customs agents went by the paperwork and all they cared about was collecting the GST and PST. there is no "duty" payable on Guitars made in Canada, USA, Mexico that are shipped between those countries. if the guitar is made in Japan, Korea, China etc there may be duties applied (roughly 6% range).
> as for brokerage fees, if you are importing privately you can avoid paying any brokerage by acting as your own brokerage agent. this simply means you get the papers together and go to your Customs office, declare the guitar and pay the taxes. no brokerage fee involved.
> if you are importing other stuff, like amps, or pedals or other equipment, you may be subject to different rules but all you have to do is contact your local Customs office to find out the details before you agree to buy or ship goods over the border. its not some secret. the information is available to anyone who asks.


Bingo. I've shipped to and had guitars shipped from the US that had rosewood and parts from elsewhere, and there have never been extra charges at Customs. Not once.


----------



## Schectertastic (Jul 12, 2010)

There's a big article here on the protected "components" that may or may not be in some of your guitars, or guitars you plan to acquire, and what you can expect to deal with in regards to customs if any of those materials are present on the instrument, even if it is a Martin/Gibson/Fender made in The United States CITES treaty for guitar collectors | The Fretboard Journal: Reader-supported guitar magazine, interviews and instrument history

Also found a more detailed breakdown of the content that would become full duty for all, it's if the item contains 50.1% more imported and foreign materials than the instrument is subject to full duty and taxes, but if not, then you should only be required to pay the following:
A) US resident: only brokerage charges and possible duties
B) Canadian resident: applicable federal or provincial taxes, brokerage and possible duties


----------



## Lemonhand (Oct 18, 2009)

I had an Epiphone Firebird VII that I sold on eBay to a guy in the US. I shipped it to him UPS and it was held up by US Fish and Wildlife over the inlays. I told them they were plastic, not any kind of mother of pearl and they refused to release it unless I had paperwork proving it. It was 100% because of the person I was dealing with, even the UPS people told me it was a ridiculous situation. The Fish and Wildlife officer said if I tried to send it in by postal service and they caught it they would seize it, so I just had it sent back. Not to say it happens often, but it can happen.


----------



## db62 (Sep 18, 2007)

keefsdad said:


> I'm thinking of ordering some stuff-when I go to check out it just adds shipping-will I get hit for duty as well?


So Jeff - did the goods arrive from Musician's Friend? How does this story end??


----------



## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Wow...this one is still going!!

*Duty* is for things not made in NAFTA countries and only those sold from retailers so it should only apply when buying new and not made in a NAFTA country.

If they mess up the paperwork and it gets through then so be it.


*Taxes*...almost always get charged. The GST plus any provincial tax on claimed value.

*Brokerage* will always get charged if you use FedEx or UPS unless you use their 'premium' service but since that service is usually on your dime anyway it is a case of pay now or pay later. USPS hands things over to Canada Post. While in the care of Canada Customs, they may be busy enough to push your parcel through and charge nothing...in which case you escape the tax portion as well ( see "Taxes" above) but if it is processed like they typically process packages the $5 handling fee for Canada Customs will be applied.


----------



## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

db62 said:


> So Jeff - did the goods arrive from Musician's Friend? How does this story end??


Yes, it took about 5 days, and I did get hit for extra charges when they brought it. So I paid over $50 in shipping and duty for an instrument that was clearance priced at $80. It was actually worth it for me because I had a $100 gift certificate, but I would certainly think twice about ordering from them again. That being said, it was well packed and a good little steel for the money-doesn't come with a tone bar though.


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

keefsdad said:


> Yes, it took about 5 days, and I did get hit for extra charges when they brought it. .


Were these "extra charges" brokerage fees, taxes, or . . . ?

TG


----------



## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

Actually I was out when it came and my girlfriend received it, I'll see if I can dig up the paperwork at some point. It was a little over $16


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

keefsdad said:


> Actually I was out when it came and my girlfriend received it, I'll see if I can dig up the paperwork at some point. It was a little over $16


Cool. I am thinking about ordering from them too but don't want any "surprises" along the way. Who do they ship with?

TG


----------



## 66strat (Dec 15, 2010)

As per the NAFTA agreement between the US and Canada you have the right to buy duty free for items made (or 50% or more made) in US or vice versa. A US-built guitar should NOT have any duty or tax charges: a guitar made in China and imported to US and sold to a Canadian customer would be subject to duty. However, stores like the Guitar Center seem to charge duty and taxes on ALL items shipped to Canada. If you are a Canadian, just visit www.guitarcenter.com and start the ordering process (you don't have to actually buy anything) and you will quickly see what I mean. In my books, this is wrong and is a form of scam.
Are you aware of this?


----------



## Zman (Nov 20, 2010)

I really can't see where it was a "good" deal. You paid 62.5% more than what the guitar cost. I don't know what the guitar would retail for regularly but those chrges seem criminal. 
This is why I rarely buy online from the US. Unless I can't find it here in Canada and have to buy there. I find that a landed price is usually a lot less than the online price plus all the shipping, duties and taxes. 
I have bought a lot of gear in the US, but I usually drive there and spend at least 2 weeks. That gives my wife and I 750 each duty free. I buy at GC or local shops that match their prices and the only thing I have to consider is exchange. I bought an Elitist Les Paul Custom for 799 US and had it delivered to my daughters place in the US. I was scheduled for trip and it arrived about the same time as I did. the exchange was about 10% then and that guitar was 1599 in Canada plus 13%.
So it was a great deal. I declared it and no duties or taxes. Technically I had one item over 750 but they never asked. They only asked for the total bought or received.


----------



## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

Anyway, yes the guitar, which was on sale for about $80 ended up costing me quite a bit more. I got it because a friend of mine in the US gave me a gift certificate, but under normal circumstances I would not order from them again.


----------



## ChBaker801 (May 5, 2011)

*Musician's Friend Responds*

Hello all,

I work for Musician's Friend. I just came across this thread and wanted to provide insight from our company.

We currently ship via UPS Worldwide Expedited whenever we ship to Canada. At this time, we do not have a system set up to factor duties and taxes into your order, so those are charged by UPS at delivery. If you purchase a Canadian/Mexican/US made item, and you do get charged for duties, then you can contact us for reimbursement or on an invoice to give to UPS for reimbursement.

We currently are looking to change the way we process these to improve the experience of our Canadian customers. Once we have the opportunity to change how we ship these to Canada, we will begin showing total landed cost at checkout, meaning that you should not have to pay a penny more than what we charge you. It also should cut down on shipping costs for us to ship to Canada and lessen delivery times. It is not a matter of if or how at this point; we are just working out the when. 

If any of you have any more questions or concerns regarding shipping with Musician's Friend, you're always welcome to PM me here. I will reply back as soon as possible.

Sincerely,
Chris Baker
Night Supervisor
http://www.MusiciansFriend.com/Canada
1-800-391-8762


----------



## Jocko (May 17, 2010)

I regularly purchase goods from the States for delivery here in the UK. I have to pay tax at 20% of value but import duty is only charged if it exceeds a threshold value and luckily nothing I have purchased has exceeded this threshold.
I also have to pay an £8 handling charge for the postal service to collect the tax. This must be paid on delivery or the item is not handed over. A £100 item therefore costs £128 but unfortunately a £10 item costs me £20! As a result I always make up a sizeable order as it is the total value that counts.


----------

