# Gibson,you cheap buggers.



## The Lullaby (Dec 8, 2010)

Is it just me or a some of the new cheap Gibson models seem like they're actually putting little to no effort into crafting professional instruments anymore? They're not even using wood filler on those gloss free jobs,plus the overly hot generic sounding pickups. We're living in a day when the average Chinese axe is better than Gibson's cheaper ones. Holy crap. Not even " student models" but cheaply made unfinished unfilled guitar toys... WOW. Way to test of brand loyalty.


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## The Lullaby (Dec 8, 2010)

Charge me $50 more and just finish the damned thing.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Sadly, it is a reality of life. In order to compete in todays market one has to figure out ways to save money. If you want high end instruments and can afford them then its up to you to custom order or buy used vintage guitars.
I,m not saying its right, but its just the way it is and its gonna get worst I think. On my part,I dont even bother with new guitars and pick out what I think is a good deal in parts guitars or re-issues.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Gibson, and to a lesser degree, Fender, is in a quandary. They are trying to compete in a global market with products that are not all that difficult to copy and sometimes even produce better ones when QC is paid attention to. At the moment, they are living on their name and a lot of re-issue models and tons of money spent on marketing trying to prove they are better than anyone else. With today's manufacturing and engineering methods, that's simply not true any longer. (i.e. N. American cars vs. Japanese cars issue-now a no issue)


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## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

The Lullaby said:


> Is it just me or a some of the new cheap Gibson models seem like they're actually putting little to no effort into crafting professional instruments anymore?


You'd probably get better results if you looked at their professional grade instruments instead of their budget models.

No one looks at a Honda Civvic and questions why it doesn't perform like a Formula One car. Both say Honda, yet people are able to apply logic and distinguish between the two. Not sure why people have such difficulty when something says Gibson on it.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

screamingdaisy said:


> Not sure why people have such difficulty when something says Gibson on it.


because the budget guitar from gibson is still more expensive than everyone else's formula 1 model.
henry said it in plain language, i saw and heard him myself. he said he found that when he increased prices, sales went up.
that is the entire strategy behind their pricing. the video is an interview he did that someone posted on youtube.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

I ordered my first Gibson guitar ever last year. A Les Paul Jr "Double Cut" which was a special run for about 3 retailers in the USA. It was about $1250 before taxes and all that was added on. I like it, however there were obvious issues. The bridge was a piece of garbage. I ended up replacing it with a Pigtail wraparound and it was like night and day - the whole tone of the guitar changed. Also, the nut is poorly cut. I had tuning issues from the moment it came home. I finally started lubricating the nut slots and that pretty much solved it. 

NOW, compare that to last week when I was in L&M testing out a pedal. I just grabbed a Telecaster off the wall and as soon as I had it in my hands I was like, "Wow..." It was a 2012 American Standard, which retails for $999. I couldn't believe the quality feel of it. It was just a beautiful guitar. I even own a 2009 American Standard and I think the '12 was better. 

So, SOMEHOW Fender is able to put out a top quality American made instrument priced lower than the Gibson, which also required that I dump $120 for a new bridge. THAT'S how I can see some of the criticism of Gibson is justified. If they're going to put out a budget line that bears the Gibson name (which has always cost a premium price) and it is of low quality, then they're just damaging their brand. Quality for dollar has come WAY too far in the mid level price range for Gibson to think they can get away with trying to compete at that price point with the crap they're trying to sell as "budget" Gibson. The caliber of instrument you can get in the $400-$800 price range is light years from what it was 20 years ago.


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## Cary (May 11, 2011)

this is a story i hear pretty often, but they aren't all junk.
I own a 2010 studio faded, and it is an absolute killer guitar. It came set up sloppy and the 3 way switch failed after 3 months of moderate use. But I'll be damned if after a good setup and a new switch it isn't fantastic. The Burstbucker pro pups are everything i look for in a paffy humbucker and the hardware has held up for a couple years without issue.
Gibson can make a sub $1000 guitar that competes, playability and tone-wise with the bigshots, but I don't think they want to.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

If you're looking at budget gibsons, chances are you are in your teens, know the name and havent done a ton of online research. Guys on this forum probably arent their target demographic. 

I personally care what Gibson does to their cheap guiitars because i wont buy one.


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## The Lullaby (Dec 8, 2010)

no I'm 40,

just think they shouldn't be putting out some of the crummy stuff they are,
of course they have great models (the Midtown is a killer new model at a god price)
and I know some ppl are really into the faded series ones
but 
their cheapest cheapies aren't even filled wood...like a builder's first experiment
REALLY sub-standard quality.

It's a freakin' shame.


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## The Lullaby (Dec 8, 2010)

several Epiphone models are really way better axes than the cheap Gibbys now...way better.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

that hasn't been my experience so far, unless something has really changed at epiphone. veneer will never offer the tonal properties that a cap will. also, afaik the epi lps are all short tenon necks. in fact, i think all of them are, i'm just not too sure about the epi explorer. there are other details too, where the epi will come short every time. there are several phenomenal builders on this forum who could make much more informed comments on all that than i ever could.
*BUT*
with intelligent upgrades on a nice example, you can cause one to play very well, and sound pretty darn good. 
and for alot less. and _that's_ what makes people wonder what they're getting for the extra $$. you do get something for it, but some folks (myself, for example) feel that the cost vs the content is not within the parameters that define value for them. i get off on less expensive guitars modded into wonderful ones. but i can totally see the appeal for some people to have that extra refinement that comes from owning the more high end pieces.


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## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

cheezyridr said:


> because the budget guitar from gibson is still more expensive than everyone else's formula 1 model.


Considering I can get a budget Les Paul for under $1000 everyone else's Formula 1 model must not be very good.


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## Canadian Charlie (Apr 30, 2008)

I just bought my first ever Gibson guitar 2 months ago, a 2010 Les Paul Studio, not a faded one. I found that the workmanship isn't 100%, left the factory with a couple of little scratches, thin clearcoat and the tail piece was a little high (half way up). Sounded great, even better with new pick ups, felt great but for the 1000 euros I paid for it I 'll say it wasn't worth it. Paid for the Gibson name.

I also own a 2008 Epiphone Les Paul Standard Plus Top. The workmanship on it is 120%, thick clearcoat, even and smooth frets, sounds just as good as a Gibson and with the same pick ups as my Gibson it sounds just the same, no defects at all and at 440 euros it was well worth it. 

To sum it up with a Gibson LP you get the name, a case, chrome output jack cover for double the price of a good Epiphone. I never owned a Gibson before and wanted one since 1979

BTW Gibson doesn't give you a truss rod wrench with the guitar and there is no felt between the strap buttons and the body, Epiphone does


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

I don't know why anyone is shocked that Gibson can't compete price-wise with American labour. 

Would you work for $3 per day?
Would you work take that job with no benefits?
They don't have laws and rules to conform to over there either.

You are looking at things in a completely incorrect manner if you are even pondering this. It is the same reason that you can't buy a t-shirt made in USA or Canada any more.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

My lp studio came with a truss rod wrench..


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Budda said:


> My lp studio came with a truss rod wrench..


I think they put a stop to providing one with each guitar because an accountant probably showed an executive that $5 multiplied by X amount of guitars sold per year was equal to a small pile of money. So, I believe that they only supply to retailers now or perhaps have stopped dealing in wrenches at all. I did get one with my 2004.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Budda said:


> My lp studio came with a truss rod wrench..


Lucky you. As I mentioned elsewhere, my brand new Es 330 1959 VOS didn't. And it's an older, hard to find socket type. Bastards.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

They're available at StewMac bluzfish...

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Truss_rods/Wrenches,_hex_keys/Pocket_Truss_Rod_Wrenches.html


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

sulphur said:


> They're available at StewMac bluzfish...
> 
> http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Truss_rods/Wrenches,_hex_keys/Pocket_Truss_Rod_Wrenches.html


Thanks sulphur. L&M ordered me a couple. But geez, I always thought a truss rod wrench was a given with even cheap new guitars, let alone top of the line custom shop guitars.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I totally agree. 
For what they charge for a CS, you should get somebody to turn the wrench for you too.

I have limited experience with Gibson.
Out of the pile of guitars that I have, only one is a Gibson.
That guitar is from the 90s' so hardly even pertinent to the discussion.
Of the three LP "types" that I own, they are all MIJ.

I did take a Gibson 339 for a spin a few months ago at a local shop.
Beautiful guitar that seemed to be finished nicely, but the nut seemed out of whack.
At least two, maybe three strings were pinging when tuning it up.
Sort of disappointing, considering the guitar had a $2200 price tag.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

Two guitars at the same price point, one gibson and one fender, and the odds are better the fender is going to set up better and just overall less quality issues..

My gibson tribute was a mess AT 849.00 it is run through the Nashville plant the same place the standards , classic,customs are made......... what the heck is going on there, as soon as they see a lower value gibson come through they speed up the line, people get longer washroom breaks... i really don't get it , how they can make such a mess out of a guitar because its not 3 grand.. I will never ever buy another Gibson without checking it over, no more mail order ..


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## big frank (Mar 5, 2006)

This kind of questionable quality with Gibson has been going on for quite some time. It's not a new thing.
My 2000 Jr. Special; a bit different that the usual Jr. Special in that it has nicer mini trapazoid markers and a very nice natural finish, came brand new with a very poor setup. Luthier said everything was loose including the tailpiece, tuners, bridge and needed to be tightened and adjusted, and there is a slight divit in the rosewood on the bass side fretboard at about the 9th fret. It doesn't affect playability but if I had spotted it before the purchase, I wouldn't have bought the guitar.
It also had a slight tool mark on the wood at the plastic toggle cover on the back and I got 50 dollars off for that. Now it's a great playing guitar, one of my favourites, but not cosmetically perfect and it bloody well should have been.
I paid 1075 dollars in 2000 plus another 269 for the California girl case.
I was blinded by the Gibson name at the time. I'm not a kid by the way, coming up on 62 in December.
My friends Korean made LP 100 cost 269 dollars in 1999. Although his is a bolt neck and totally different, it PLAYS at least as well as my Gibson and the neck is a bit thinner and narrower, which I like. His frets are shot after constant playing for 13 years but he says he has no problem paying the 200 bucks to have new frets installed because the guitar is so sweet and the current Chinese models aren't quite up to snuf . He also owns a Gibson Les Paul Studio Gem from the late 90's that sounds sweet; but seldom gets played because he isn't fussy about the rounded '59 neck.
My 1972 Gibson ES 325 may be a Norlin product, but the workmanship is flawless. The 325 is a built like a battleship. It's my chocolate walnut coloured baby and the mini humbuckers are wonderfully creamy sounding marvels.
I guess what I'm trying to say is Gibson has been riding on it's rep for many years and even some of the higher end models are disappointing for what is paid.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Hey big frank, from what I've gathered about Gibson, the Norlin era was between '74 and '84.

Your '72 isn't from that era, as far as I can tell. 8)


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## big frank (Mar 5, 2006)

Actually it is from the Norlin Era. The label inside says so.


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## big frank (Mar 5, 2006)

Just checked. Norlin bought Gibson in 1969.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

This is from Wiki, so, a grain of salt, I guess...

"On December 22nd 1969 Gibson parent company, Chicago Musical Instruments, was taken over by a South American brewing conglomerate, E.C.L. Gibson, Inc. remained under the control of CMI until 1974, when it became a subsidiary of Norlin Musical Instruments (a member of Norlin Industries - named for ECL president *Nor*ton Stevens and CMI president Maurice Ber*lin*)."

It could have been under the same umbrella though, just changed hands.


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## Stonesy (Oct 7, 2008)

At one time is used to be which one was the one.
Now it is is which one sucks less than the other.
2006 is when i noticed a big drop in quality with the USA models.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

smorgdonkey said:


> I don't know why anyone is shocked that Gibson can't compete price-wise with American labour.
> 
> Would you work for $3 per day?
> Would you work take that job with no benefits?
> ...


I have to agree, consumerism has driven production overseas. 

Consumers demand cheap disposable goods and the only way companies can meet that demand is by moving production off shore.

I like the American Apparel ethic but it's hard to spend $20 on a t-shirt when you can get five for the same price at Walmart. Ultimately "we" the consumer are to blame.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

big frank said:


> This kind of questionable quality with Gibson has been going on for quite some time. It's not a new thing.
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is Gibson has been riding on it's rep for many years and even some of the higher end models are disappointing for what is paid.


Guitar Center's frustration w/ Gibson's poor QC was the break that allowed PRS to enter the mass market. In the early 90s I recall many a Tokai Les Paul being as good as or better than a Gibson, yet now I see Gibsons of that era being marketed as hailing from their "golden age".

I would never buy a guitar w/out playing it first, especially a Gibson. Nor will I ever buy another new guitar, but I can imagine how much it must suck for guys in remote areas who have no choice but to buy online & roll the dice.

On the bright side, I have too many guitars, so maybe the oddball crap Gibson is producing these days will help me get a few extra bucks once I figure out what ones to sell? They are made with real rosewood fingerboards ....one piece, to boot.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

screamingdaisy said:


> Considering I can get a budget Les Paul for under $1000 everyone else's Formula 1 model must not be very good.


why? does money equal quality for you? it doesn't work that way _for me_. i wasn't trying to insult when i said that. sorry if i did. but here is an example of what i mean


consider the dillion 650 http://www.dillionguitars.com/guitar/electric/DL/DL650FQ/DL650-F_HSB 2.JPG
here is what you get for $550:
Arch top solid bound mahogany body
AAA American Flame top
Set neck, with 2.7 mm hand polished frets, 
White pearl trapezoid fret markers
Grover USA gears with 18 to 1 ratio
2 vintage Alnico chrome Hum's 
2 push / pull coil taps.
2 volume, 2 tone and 3 way toggle selector switch
Classic style vintage control knobs
Dillion chrome Roller - Matic bridge
D'Addarrio string ( 10-46 ) 
12" Radius - 1.695 nut width - 24.75 scale
oh, and the case is less than $100, shipping is free
now, lets just assume that the bridge is junk (it's not) and the pups too. so you swap out the pups and the bridge, and that puts you just under $800
now look at what you get for the similar money from gibson: 
http://www.long-mcquade.com/product...Paul_Sudio_70s_Tribute_-_Vintage_Sunburst.htm

sure, it's a nice guitar. but is it nicer than the dillion, for what is surely a slightly higher price tag? no. no amount of spin will ever allow you to truthfully state that the gibson is in this case, the nicer instrument. so, now you may have a better understanding of what i meant. dillion's formula1 is definitely the better buy.


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## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

cheezyridr said:


> no amount of spin will ever allow you to truthfully state that the gibson is in this case, the nicer instrument.


You're comparing a middle of the road Korean guitar to a budget American guitar... of course the budget guitar is going to loose.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

smorgdonkey said:


> I don't know why anyone is shocked that Gibson can't compete price-wise with American labour.
> 
> Would you work for $3 per day?
> Would you work take that job with no benefits?
> ...


In the guitar world, that's a load of poppycock. There are several other companies making excellent quality and affordable (under $1000) USA made instruments. From everything I've read/heard, I believe the problem is that Gibson isn't a very well run company. I'm sure they have quality workers there, but the problem seems to be systemic with their business. 

And back to what I said about hurting their own brand. If you can't build it right at that price point, then don't. Why they're building/selling USA made Melody Maker series for under $400 is beyond me. This is a price point that Gibson traditionally has not played in before, and it appears they don't really know what they're doing. Epiphone was always their budget line. Yet now for some reason, you've got Gibson branded guitars selling for cheaper than the Epi's.


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## The Lullaby (Dec 8, 2010)

North American company that doesn't put out anything unless it's a quality axe...GODIN.


Everyone else has something to learn from them these days. 

Might not have the resale value but they have excellent tone and build quality whatever price the model.

GODIN WOULD NEVER PUT OUT SOME OF THE CRAP FENDER OR GIBSON DO...and I gladly use both Fender and Gibson stuff.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

The Lullaby said:


> North American company that doesn't put out anything unless it's a quality axe...GODIN.
> 
> 
> Everyone else has something to learn from them these days.
> ...


I've never been blown away by Fender's quality. they never feel as solid as a good Gibson to me.

Having said that, I've always been impressed by Godin and their baby companies. Do i own any? no. 

I am a Gibson whore. I love their stuff even though their QC can be spotty.


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## The Lullaby (Dec 8, 2010)

Godin's products look better to me all the time.


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## gibsonguitarguy (Feb 17, 2010)

*LP axcess*

I have the above guitar and I replaced the pickups and I must replace the nut
For a 3300 dollar guitar 1 would think you shouldn't have to do that.
Gibsons are good guitars they are just extremely overpriced.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

gibsonguitarguy said:


> I have the above guitar and I replaced the pickups and I must replace the nut
> For a 3300 dollar guitar 1 would think you shouldn't have to do that.
> Gibsons are good guitars they are just extremely overpriced.


pickups are a matter of preference.... many successful bands use Gibson standards in stock form...


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> why? does money equal quality for you? it doesn't work that way _for me_. i wasn't trying to insult when i said that. sorry if i did. but here is an example of what i mean
> 
> 
> consider the dillion 650 http://www.dillionguitars.com/guitar/electric/DL/DL650FQ/DL650-F_HSB 2.JPG
> ...


Yes, it probably is. Why? Well how's that dillion's fretwork? I haven't picked up a bad LP studio in 4 years, personal experience and all that. Your flame top is probably a veneer and not an actual maple cap - especially at $550. Agile also does this - real maple topped with a gorgeous veneer (so you get the sound and the look, without the expense). Look at a trans finish LP studio - you can see the cap thickness. In the case of Gibson vs. Dillion, -I'd love to see a comparison of the actual inlay work (I have not A/B'd). You can get a hardshell case for a Gibson for under $100 too, and the cases LP studios come with are pretty damn nice.

For $550, you're getting a decent guitar. An LP studio is a pretty good guitar, at a not-ridiculous price point. The Gibson will probably (but not always, as we know) have better pieces of mahogany used. The pickups are known to be pretty good for a wide variety of styles, and when you go to sell them *they won't be $30 for the pair*.

Your dillion is comparable to the epiphone les paul standard. The Agile AL-3100 I had, is more comparable to an LP studio and still under $700 last I checked. And enjoy the resale value on both of those guitars (say, 6 months after you bought it) compared to the Gibson as well.

No, the dillion is not "absolutely" a better buy. It is simply more budget minded.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

The Lullaby said:


> North American company that doesn't put out anything unless it's a quality axe...GODIN.
> 
> 
> Everyone else has something to learn from them these days.
> ...


Sadly, they do. I bought a Strat-shaped Godin with a Floyd Rose about 3 years ago. It was unplayable. 

I have bought guitars that need a bit of set-up once I get them home, and I thought the Godin was like that. But the locking nut was misinstalled from the factory, I couldn't fix it without major surgery (or $150 luthier bill) and L&M weren't interested in fixing it to save the sale. I returned it for my money back and never looked back.

I am still interested in Godin though, especially their 5th Avenue series. I haven't written the company off because of one bad apple. But I would be alot more cautious buying one because of my experience, especially if buying privately (with no return options).


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Budda said:


> Yes, it probably is. Why? Well how's that dillion's fretwork? I haven't picked up a bad LP studio in 4 years, personal experience and all that. Your flame top is probably a veneer and not an actual maple cap - especially at $550. Agile also does this - real maple topped with a gorgeous veneer (so you get the sound and the look, without the expense). Look at a trans finish LP studio - you can see the cap thickness. In the case of Gibson vs. Dillion, -I'd love to see a comparison of the actual inlay work (I have not A/B'd). You can get a hardshell case for a Gibson for under $100 too, and the cases LP studios come with are pretty damn nice.
> 
> For $550, you're getting a decent guitar. An LP studio is a pretty good guitar, at a not-ridiculous price point. The Gibson will probably (but not always, as we know) have better pieces of mahogany used. The pickups are known to be pretty good for a wide variety of styles, and when you go to sell them *they won't be $30 for the pair*.
> 
> ...


i should have clarified initially - the dillion i spoke of is dillion usa, not dillion canada. it is made in korea.

i think they're fretwork is adequate per my experience. it's definitely a cap, and not a veneer. it is an all around better guitar than the epiphone. for example, epiphone IS a veneer. it's also a short tenon neck vs the dillion's long tenon neck. the pots and caps are quality pieces unlike the epiphone stuff. tuners are better, and the inlays on the dillion are pearl, vs. acylic found on both the epi AND the gibby studio. nut is bone, and the other guitars are plastic and corian. the bridge, being a wilkinson piece is actually pretty good, and the binding is real, vs the epi, which is paint, and not actually binding at all. of course you are correct on the pups. it's why i opted to switch them out and added that t the price. 
i know both guitars pretty well. i've owned fine examples of both. the dillion blows the epi away. even the korean one i had.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I know it's a cap, but I'm saying that it's a veneer on top of a maple cap - that figure probably does not go all the way through. Not at $550. I'm also doubting that it's real pearl on those inlays - it's usually Mother of Pearl if it's pearl. MIK guitar with quality pots and caps? Haven't seen one, not even those PRS SE's. I also doubt that the nut is bone, given that graphtech is the popular affordable option. It doesn't list nut material on the site. Where's the proof that an Epi binding is paint?

Again, it's a $550 guitar and I'm skeptical of it having better options and being that cheap. The corners have to be cut somewhere for a guitar to be that affordable.

After being on the site, I'm pretty sure this is an Agile AL-3100 with a different headstock and name haha http://www.rondomusic.com/AL3110M2TSFLAME.HTML


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## astyles (Apr 6, 2009)

Epiphones have painted binding !?! Scared me for a sec there ... had to look that one up and take a good look at my Epi Custom. But it's real. Plastic, maybe a bit thin, but real. Phew ...


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Budda said:


> After being on the site, I'm pretty sure this is an Agile AL-3100 with a different headstock and name haha http://www.rondomusic.com/AL3110M2TSFLAME.HTML


it's not the agile, here is the website to buy dillion usa
http://stores.ebay.com/musiciansmate8lm838

here is john dillions email address, if you would like to ask him about the caps or any of the other specs, he is real good about answering emails. i've talked to him on several occasions. 
[email protected] 





as for the binding thing, i got that from this video, so if i was wrong, here is where the bad info came from

http://youtu.be/rzM9dvV-VJU


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## BEMUSofNrthAmra (Jun 9, 2012)

I bought a "cheap" Gibson SG as a project guitar.

Gonna be the best project guitar in the world.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

big frank said:


> This kind of questionable quality with Gibson has been going on for quite some time. It's not a new thing.
> My 2000 Jr. Special; a bit different that the usual Jr. Special in that it has nicer mini trapazoid markers and a very nice natural finish, came brand new with a very poor setup. Luthier said everything was loose including the tailpiece, tuners, bridge and needed to be tightened and adjusted, and there is a slight divit in the rosewood on the bass side fretboard at about the 9th fret. It doesn't affect playability but if I had spotted it before the purchase, I wouldn't have bought the guitar.
> It also had a slight tool mark on the wood at the plastic toggle cover on the back and I got 50 dollars off for that. Now it's a great playing guitar, one of my favourites, but not cosmetically perfect and it bloody well should have been.
> I paid 1075 dollars in 2000 plus another 269 for the California girl case.
> ...


It's too bad others don't get this. And Gibson isn't the only one. There are a number of companies like this and it happens to large companies all the time, not just in the music industry.


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## big frank (Mar 5, 2006)

I fully agree. Anyone can make a mistake and send out a "lemon" or two. But when it becomes routine; well it's time to suck back and re-load and move on to something else.
Where is that Eastwood dealer again?


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

If you think quality it's bad now...wait till the REAL wood embargos start happening. Anyone notice that Gibson does not use ebony at all anymore? That is something Gibson will now have to get used to as well as other manfacturers as the supply is drying up. Last I heard, Taylor bought one of the last mills in Africa that still processes ebony. That should make supply interesting.
It's going to happen to all of them in the not to distant future. Mahogany is starting to get difficult to source reliably and, of course, rosewood. Gibson is now using rosewood laminate. You can bet Fender's not far from that either.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> In the guitar world, that's a load of poppycock.


You and I disagree on that.




Powdered Toast Man said:


> From everything I've read/heard, I believe the problem is that Gibson isn't a very well run company. I'm sure they have quality workers there, but the problem seems to be systemic with their business.


We agree on that.



Powdered Toast Man said:


> And back to what I said about hurting their own brand. If you can't build it right at that price point, then don't. Why they're building/selling USA made Melody Maker series for under $400 is beyond me. This is a price point that Gibson traditionally has not played in before, and it appears they don't really know what they're doing. Epiphone was always their budget line. Yet now for some reason, you've got Gibson branded guitars selling for cheaper than the Epi's.


and I agree with that too.


I will, however, state that I have purchased every Gibson that I ever went to see. They were all great. I should have run into a lemon or two along the way if everyone's beefs were as they say.


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