# Epiphone Releases another Collection



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Call Inspired by Gibson...


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## Alistair6 (Jul 9, 2007)

They really are making it harder and harder to sometimes justify going with a Gibson.. I guess the nitro difference will always be there. These look great though


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Love to try any of those!


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## aC2rs (Jul 9, 2007)

I really like the selection of guitars in this collection and the 3x3 headstocks are a massive improvement over the old style.


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## SG-Rocker (Dec 30, 2007)

Mmmmmm Maestro SG!

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

anyone know what the model type of the black "first on the left side" is? I would definitely try that one out.
G.

It took a little digging but the guitar in question is based on the Les Paul model...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Is it just me or does the humbucker on the red SG look closer to the end of the fingerboard than the P90 on the teal one? Like, _dangerously_ close.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

It does look closer, but no closer than the Explorer or Firebird are. Is this an issue with an SG specifically as opposed to all the others?


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Are we sure this isn't just Bonamassa's broom closet?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Alistair6 said:


> They really are making it harder and harder to sometimes justify going with a Gibson.. I guess the nitro difference will always be there. These look great though


For those who like nitro, it might make a difference. I am wondering how it will affect Gibson's market share. They have been steadily losing market share to competitors for a couple decades at least. However, I have seen the same thing going on in other industries with major players owning/buying what is perceived by the public at large to be an "offbrand". The idea is to keep some of the market share even though they have to sell if for less. Better that than see the competition taking all of that side of the market.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

almost all the neck pickups are touching the finger board


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Very nice


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

"Infuriatingly, we have no images or specs for many of these, only the suggestion they exist, so we’ll be bringing you images from the show ASAP. Likewise price and availability info, which is also absent."

NAMM 2020: Could Epiphone’s Inspired by Gibson Collection be its best guitars yet? | Guitar World


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

there's really only 1 epi i definitely want, and they dont even make it anymore


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

cheezyridr said:


> there's really only 1 epi i definitely want, and they dont even make it anymore


I don't know what the specs are on this but it is a fine looking guitar IMHO. I like the sharper points on the upper bouts rather than the rounded ones some HB have. I also like the gold but it would look better on a red burst rather than the yellow. I think you'll agree on the red, won't you Cheezyridr?


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## SG-Rocker (Dec 30, 2007)

This guitar sat unwanted at L&M South Edmonton for almost a year.

It's a signature model but I can't recall the artist.

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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> For those who like nitro, it might make a difference. I am wondering how it will affect Gibson's market share. They have been steadily losing market share to competitors for a couple decades at least. However, I have seen the same thing going on in other industries with major players owning/buying what is perceived by the public at large to be an "offbrand". The idea is to keep some of the market share even though they have to sell if for less. Better that than see the competition taking all of that side of the market.


Oh, hey, let's see some historical market share data, I've been curious about this.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

keto said:


> Oh, hey, let's see some historical market share data, I've been curious about this.


Oh, I'm sure Gibson would be very happy to share that with the rest of us in a heartbeat. It is likely not that hard to figure out in a general sense though. Look at all the competition that has cropped up in the last 20-30 years. Gibson has lost all those sales (as well as Fender, PRS and Rickenbacker) and Epiphone has not recouped a very large share of it.


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## SG-Rocker (Dec 30, 2007)

I reckon it's the Epi factory skunkworks that made most of the Chibsons.

I would not have put it past Henry to get his factories to flood the market with cheap knock-offs to taint the used market with the intent of stimulating new sales.

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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Oh, I'm sure Gibson would be very happy to share that with the rest of us in a heartbeat. It is likely not that hard to figure out in a general sense though. Look at all the competition that has cropped up in the last 20-30 years. Gibson has lost all those sales (as well as Fender, PRS and Rickenbacker) and Epiphone has not recouped a very large share of it.


Aw, quit making stuff up. You haven't got a clue how much business Gibson has gained or lost.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Verne said:


> It does look closer, but no closer than the Explorer or Firebird are. Is this an issue with an SG specifically as opposed to all the others?


Yes. SGs are known to suffer breaks at the neck body joint easily. When this became known, the neck pickups were moved back from the fingerboard, to allow more space for more of the neck tenon. Do an image search for SGs over the years, and you'll see that some have the neck pickup jammed right up against the fingerboard, and others have the neck pickup a good inch or more back from the the end of the fingerboard.

For Firebirds, it's a nonissue because they're neck-through construction. Flying Vs, however, although the neck pickup seems to have generally been jammed up against the end of the fingerboard (moved back a half inch some years), vary with respect to how far up the neck the body joins it. In some years, the body wraps around the neck up as far as the 17th or 18th fret, while in other years, that "shoulder" is removed, such that the body only seems to connect at the 21st fret. I have no idea of how susceptible to neck breaks Flying Vs are, although joining the body at the 21st fret, and having precious neck tenon routed out to make way for a neck pickup is a definite risk factor. The Explorer seems to have a bit more body around last few frets of the neck, much like the "lower risk" Flying Vs.

If the body is deep/thick, then the neck tenon can have plenty of body wood to hang onto, even if a certain amount of tenon is carved away to make way for a pickup. But, as you well know, SGs are not the thickest guitar bodies on the planet.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

dam......there are some nice looking guitars there! Has anyone every done actual blind testing with Epi/Gibson models after equalizing the pickups/electronics? 
I'm betting I can't hear the difference in the finish.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

the specs are incredible, the best yet


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Learn something every day here. I've never been an SG fan, so never really noticed the pickup migration.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

keto said:


> Aw, quit making stuff up. You haven't got a clue how much business Gibson has gained or lost.


Here's an indication of where the top 5 vendors sit in the global market from 2017-2021. 

Top 5 Vendors in the Global Guitar Market From 2017-2021: Technavio


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Is it just me or does the humbucker on the red SG look closer to the end of the fingerboard than the P90 on the teal one? Like, _dangerously_ close.


Looks like the normal gap with the small plastic cover to me...


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Dorian2 said:


> Here's an indication of where the top 5 vendors sit in the global market from 2017-2021.
> 
> Top 5 Vendors in the Global Guitar Market From 2017-2021: Technavio


I imagine "Gibson Brands" include Epiphone and Fender includes Squire (among others) . Was not expecting to see Hofner in the mix, or PRS.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

keto said:


> Aw, quit making stuff up. You haven't got a clue how much business Gibson has gained or lost.


I have been in the business world all my life and have seen the markets change in many businesses. How much productivity have North America lost to China, Mexico, India, Taiwan, etc., etc? If you think they haven't lost a sizeable chunk of market share you are blind to the economy of our world. But you do have a right to your opinion.

If you think you know better, we would all like to know it. Care to share your business acumen with us?


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

I see the Special and the SG both have bound necks - nice!
I really like 5 out the 8 shown, so I hope they're as nice in person as they look in that picture.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Steadfastly said:


> For those who like nitro, it might make a difference. I am wondering how it will affect Gibson's market share. They have been steadily losing market share to competitors for a couple decades at least.


Not just Gibson. I read a year or so ago(when I was researching Indonesian guitars) that slightly more than 40% of the world market is now in the Asia Pacific region with guitars manufactured in Korea, China and Indonesia dominating the market(for obvious reasons).

The global market has become pretty fractured and American brands have really become represented by proxy in Asia.

Gibson is one of the most volatile companies out there their numbers probably swing pretty wildly compared to PRS, Fender etc,

But one thing for sure, if you are interested in a vintage instrument nothing compares favourably to Gibson value-wise.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Rozz said:


> Not just Gibson. I read a year or so ago(when I was researching Indonesian guitars) that slightly more than 40% of the world market is now in the Asia Pacific region with guitars manufactured in Korea, China and Indonesia dominating the market(for obvious reasons).
> 
> The global market has become pretty fractured and American brands have really become represented by proxy in Asia.
> 
> ...


look at textile manufacturing. it used to be strong in the south, up until the mid to late 90's. now it's almost non existent here. most of it done in china, india and indonesia.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

TV Yellow Les Paul Special - but I would have to sell a couple of things


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

cheezyridr said:


> look at textile manufacturing. it used to be strong in the south, up until the mid to late 90's. now it's almost non existent here. most of it done in china, india and indonesia.


Good call.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> I have been in the business world all my life and have seen the markets change in many businesses. How much productivity have North America lost to China, Mexico, India, Taiwan, etc., etc? If you think they haven't lost a sizeable chunk of market share you are blind to the economy of our world. But you do have a right to your opinion.
> 
> If you think you know better, we would all like to know it. Care to share your business acumen with us?





Dorian2 said:


> Here's an indication of where the top 5 vendors sit in the global market from 2017-2021.
> 
> Top 5 Vendors in the Global Guitar Market From 2017-2021: Technavio


Why have you changed the scope of your question to productivity now? Weren't you talking about actual market share? Trying to baffle us with Bullshit?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

keto said:


> Aw, quit making stuff up. You haven't got a clue how much business Gibson has gained or lost.





cheezyridr said:


> look at textile manufacturing. it used to be strong in the south, up until the mid to late 90's. now it's almost non existent here. most of it done in china, india and indonesia.


Correct. You probably remember Cambridge just west of Toronto when you lived up here. At one time it was a textile town with the Grand River flowing through it running the mills. There was one textile company there about 25 years ago when I worked in Cambridge but I think it is gone now with all the rest.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> I have been in the business world all my life and have seen the markets change in many businesses. How much productivity have North America lost to China, Mexico, India, Taiwan, etc., etc? If you think they haven't lost a sizeable chunk of market share you are blind to the economy of our world. But you do have a right to your opinion.
> 
> If you think you know better, we would all like to know it. Care to share your business acumen with us?


It wasn't about my acumen, it was about you spouting about lost market share when it's a blind guess on your part. Until you have actual numbers, I do wish (and many many others here as well) you'd quit making stuff up. At least say it's your best guess, rather than "They have been steadily losing market share to competitors for a couple decades at least.", when what you are really talking about is international markets, where Gibson is also a player. Again, show me the numbers that show they are losing market share.

I've been in business for 37 years this year, but not the guitar business. Same as you!


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> Correct. You probably remember Cambridge just west of Toronto when you lived up here. At one time it was a textile town with the Grand River flowing through it running the mills. There was one textile company there about 25 years ago when I worked in Cambridge but I think it is gone now with all the rest.


i made my living doing filtration for textile mills exclusively, for most of the 90's. i worked 7/10s across 8 or 9 states. then one day, it was all gone


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## Doug B (Jun 19, 2017)

Robert1950 said:


> Call Inspired by Gibson...



Hmm...I think I saw those somewhere a few years ago. It's like deja vu all over again!


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

cheezyridr said:


> i made my living doing filtration for textile mills exclusively, for most of the 90's. i worked 7/10s across 8 or 9 states. then one day, it was all gone


Thank NAFTA


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

keto said:


> It wasn't about my acumen, it was about you spouting about lost market share when it's a blind guess on your part. Until you have actual numbers, I do wish (and many many others here as well) you'd quit making stuff up. At least say it's your best guess, rather than "They have been steadily losing market share to competitors for a couple decades at least.", when what you are really talking about is international markets, where Gibson is also a player. Again, show me the numbers that show they are losing market share.
> 
> I've been in business for 37 years this year, but not the guitar business. Same as you!


Do a Google search on how much market share they have now. At one time they had 100% of the LP market. Guess what they have now. And did you see the other members post with the numbers. So look it up yourself. It appears you know very little about market share and the global market or you are turning a blind eye to it. 

And why do you care so much about Gibson? Do you have stock in the company, a seller of their guitars. You and others remind me of what I call GMinism. At one time people argued left, right and center that they were the best auto maker out there and no one would ever be able to make vehicles that were better. I'm sure you know at least a bit about what happened to their market share. People have finally gotten smart and see that many mfrs. make as good and many better than GM (or Ford and Chrysler). The same is happening to the big three in the guitar world. And guitars are so much simpler than autos. It's time you and others with the same old vision wake up to reality and see the writing has been on the wall for a long time.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

sulphur said:


> Thank NAFTA


Maybe partially Sulphur but that only involved three countries. Most of what we buy today comes from international markets outside of NAFTA and if not the whole product, many of the parts do. The shift in where products were made and purchased started long before NAFTA.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> Do a Google search on how much market share they have now. At one time they had 100% of the LP market. Guess what they have now. And did you see the other members post with the numbers. So look it up yourself. It appears you know very little about market share and the global market or you are turning a blind eye to it.
> 
> And why do you care so much about Gibson? Do you have stock in the company, a seller of their guitars. You and others remind me of what I call GMinism. At one time people argued left, right and center that they were the best auto maker out there and no one would ever be able to make vehicles that were better. I'm sure you know at least a bit about what happened to their market share. People have finally gotten smart and see that many mfrs. make as good and many better than GM (or Ford and Chrysler). The same is happening to the big three in the guitar world. And guitars are so much simpler than autos. It's time you and others with the same old vision wake up to reality and see the writing has been on the wall for a long time.


Holy man, you are becoming bat $hit crazier.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Steadfastly said:


> It's time you and others with the same old vision wake up to reality and see the writing has been on the wall for a long time.


Couldn't be bothered when no one provides links to back up their argument.
_'google it yourself_' is an admission of defeat, as far as I'm concerned.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

keto said:


> Aw, quit making stuff up. You haven't got a clue how much business Gibson has gained or lost.


I thought for sure this would have earned you a spot on the 'honour list'. Maybe he's toughing up a bit.


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## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

Dorian2 said:


> Here's an indication of where the top 5 vendors sit in the global market from 2017-2021. Top 5 Vendors in the Global Guitar Market From 2017-2021: Technavio





Lincoln said:


> I imagine "Gibson Brands" include Epiphone and Fender includes Squire (among others) . Was not expecting to see Hofner in the mix, or PRS.


Hofner is not even remotely close to being one of the top 5. I've been working with them for 20 years. Complete and utter fiction.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Hammertone said:


> Hofner is not even remotely close to being one of the top 5. I've been working with them for 20 years. Complete and utter fiction.


Thanks for clarifying. I spent 2 minutes searching on the web. The point was that the poster that's insisting this certainly isn't providing any viable info. Just baseless conjecture.



Steadfastly said:


> Gibson has lost all those sales (as well as Fender, PRS and Rickenbacker) and Epiphone has not recouped a very large share of it.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Do a Google search on how much market share they have now. At one time they had 100% of the LP market. Guess what they have now. And did you see the other members post with the numbers. So look it up yourself. It appears you know very little about market share and the global market or you are turning a blind eye to it.
> 
> And why do you care so much about Gibson? Do you have stock in the company, a seller of their guitars. You and others remind me of what I call GMinism. At one time people argued left, right and center that they were the best auto maker out there and no one would ever be able to make vehicles that were better. I'm sure you know at least a bit about what happened to their market share. People have finally gotten smart and see that many mfrs. make as good and many better than GM (or Ford and Chrysler). The same is happening to the big three in the guitar world. And guitars are so much simpler than autos. It's time you and others with the same old vision wake up to reality and see the writing has been on the wall for a long time.


LOL. They still have 100% of the Les Paul market, nobody else can use the name. Nobody can even use the exact body shape (of course, I know bootlegs exist, but not legally).

The other member's post re: share - which had Gibson as #2 behind Fender but without specific share numbers, which I would tend to believe - has been debunked for other bad data, if you're following the thread.

Don't own a single guitar, nor a Gibson bass. It's not about Gibson, sir, it's about you making things up to fit your little world and expecting us to blindly nod and float along behind you blissfully.

Do wish you're provide some market share data. But I said that already.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I might buy that Firebird


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

@Robert1950 ...sorry about helping to keep yet another guitar thread stay off track. Just tired of the same dude doing the same thing in every thread about a major brand. It's becoming off putting, extremely annoying, and is amounting to being a disservice to any other members or viewers who are actually interested in these guitars. Myself included. Love the looks of a lot of these guitars. Can't wait for some reviews when they come out.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


> @Robert1950 ...sorry about helping to keep yet another guitar thread stay off track. Just tired of the same dude doing the same thing in every thread about a major brand. It's becoming off putting, extremely annoying, and is amounting to being a disservice to any other members or viewers who are actually interested in these guitars. Myself included. Love the looks of a lot of these guitars. Can't wait for some reviews when they come out.


AFAIK we can’t vote people off the island quite yet, so I’m making good use of the ignore button, but I can only imagine the shit show that this thread became.

As per the original topic, I too look forward to seeing some of these models, a few Epis of late have really impressed (notably the Bonnamassa FB1 & V).


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Dorian2 said:


> @Robert1950 ...sorry about helping to keep yet another guitar thread stay off track. Just tired of the same dude doing the same thing in every thread about a major brand. It's becoming off putting, extremely annoying, and is amounting to being a disservice to any other members or viewers who are actually interested in these guitars. Myself included. Love the looks of a lot of these guitars. Can't wait for some reviews when they come out.


Oh, I don't read enough of the guitar stuff, new releases/NGDs, etc, around here any more to realize this is a repeat offender. OK, I'm lying. I feel the same as you do. I wonder how many Gibsons he's owned that were bad ones?


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Roryfan said:


> AFAIK we can’t vote people off the island quite yet, so I’m making good use of the ignore button, but I can only imagine the shit show that this thread became.
> 
> As per the original topic, I too look forward to seeing some of these models, a few Epis of late have really impressed (notably the Bonnamassa FB1 & V).


Yeah, me I'm not wired to use an ignore button. I just call it like I see it. I even cross the line but that's pretty rare. I don't wan't the uninformed to hear a one sided story, especially one I don't agree with. Yes, there are other cheap and cheaper knock offs, I owned one or two even. I always got what I paid for, and I can even claim a bad experience with a Gibson that was not under warranty. I don't run around slagging them, I owned a bunch of new and used Gibsons that were great, even the one that ended up having an issue.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Oh, I'm sure Gibson would be very happy to share that with the rest of us in a heartbeat. It is likely not that hard to figure out in a general sense though. Look at all the competition that has cropped up in the last 20-30 years. Gibson has lost all those sales (as well as Fender, PRS and Rickenbacker) and Epiphone has not recouped a very large share of it.


I apologize for missing this post until now. So, you're saying the world market as a whole has not gotten larger as the lower middle class has expanded in places like China, India, and many other growth centers? 100% you are correct there are more competitors, but tell me again where you've seen that Gibson's sales have been falling in that time span?


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

keto said:


> Oh, I don't read enough of the guitar stuff, new releases/NGDs, etc, around here any more to realize this is a repeat offender. OK, I'm lying. I feel the same as you do. I wonder how many Gibsons he's owned that were bad ones?


And then maybe I'm wrong about world markets, according to this Guitars Aren't Dying. They're as Popular as Ever

I still haven't found Gibson specific numbers.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Lincoln said:


> dam......there are some nice looking guitars there! Has anyone every done actual blind testing with Epi/Gibson models after equalizing the pickups/electronics?
> I'm betting I can't hear the difference in the finish.


I have a couple super modded EPI Les Pauls from different era’s- 90’s Korean, Early production China and the latest China which are claimed to be the best ones produced yet, and they might be. None are better than my Les Pauls for feel or sound, but I do love my modded epi’s all the same, each have their own space but when I go to my rack to grab a guitar I can’t stop from grabbing a Gibby LP, just a different level in my humble opinion. I get why people feel they are comparable though Epiphone can make some great guitars for sure.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

My first LP was an early 90's bolt neck Korean Epi LP, which was actually a really well built and nice playing guitar, sounded good to me too. I kept it a long long time.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

keto said:


> And then maybe I'm wrong about world markets, according to this Guitars Aren't Dying. They're as Popular as Ever
> 
> I still haven't found Gibson specific numbers.


Interesting. I found it on my first try.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

keto said:


> I still haven't found Gibson specific numbers.





Steadfastly said:


> Interesting. I found it on my first try.


Yet, you won't share it with us?
This is why many are calling your bluff. IMO.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

You're full of shit Steadly.

Back on topic...what do you guys (besides Steadfastly because he wouldn't have a clue anyways) think about the headstock change? Anyone have details on the new electronics they'll be using, or has that yet to be seen at NAMM? I spent a little time last night cleaning out the electronics in my Epi Thunderbird and they seemed to be noname cheap pot metal that'll have to be swapped out soon. There was also a LOT of extra wire in the cavity. Should EPI correct that slightly to avoid excess EMI, or is it not enough to affect anything?



> As previously hinted, the Inspired by Gibson guitars will feature the more Gibson-like Kalamazoo headstock, as well as upgraded electronics and finishes.


NAMM 2020: Could Epiphone’s Inspired by Gibson Collection be its best guitars yet? | Guitar World


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

I like the new headstock shape, it's cleaner looking.
I just realized no 335. I hope they keep making those too.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

[QUOTE="tomee2, post: 2610098, member: 19689"*]I like the new headstock shape, it's cleaner looking.*
I just realized no 335. I hope they keep making those too.[/QUOTE]

It is. I am not a fan of large headstocks. The lighter that end of the guitar is, the better I like it.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

keto said:


> LOL. * They still have 100% of the Les Paul market, *nobody else can use the name. .


I see now why you are so difficult to reason with. You simply do not want to. I will remember that in the future and avoid replying to any of your posts. Too bad because I have found you especially knowledgeable in the past, especially when it comes to amps. I think you're one of the best members here when it comes to amps and have recommended you to others at times to get answers to their questions.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

He's difficult to reason with? OMFG!

You make shit up (or outright lie), you never provide data for your rants. Your so full of shit your eyes are brown, steadly.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

As much as I appreciate the fact that Gibson is using the Epiphone brand to market more budget-conscious but quality versions of fan favourites, I kind of miss the days when Epiphone was a whole other brand with its own models, distinct from Gibson. Rather than treating Epiphone the way that Fender treats Guild or Gretsch, Epis have become the MIM or MIK version of Gibson, akin to the difference between American Standard and better Squier Fenders.

On a tangential note, my wife bought me this book _1001 Guitars to Dream of Playing Before You Die_, and there were a number of Gibsons from the early-to-mid '80s that I never knew existed. I was well familiar with the oddball stuff like the Corvus and Victory guitars, but never knew of the existence of the triple Q300 model, or Spirit II XPL, US-1, and MIII. Boy oh boy, did Gibson ever want a piece of the "Superstrat" action that was popular at the time.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

mhammer said:


> Boy oh boy, did Gibson ever want a piece of the "Superstrat" action that was popular at the time.


Yea, that was an interesting era. Gibson was being shut out in the pop (hair metal) music scene at the time. They owe Slash more than a couple of sig models, he made the Lester cool again. Personally, I've always played LP's as my #1, even through the 'hair metal' decade.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> I see now why you are so difficult to reason with. You simply do not want to. I will remember that in the future and avoid replying to any of your posts. Too bad because I have found you especially knowledgeable in the past, especially when it comes to amps. I think you're one of the best members here when it comes to amps and have recommended you to others at times to get answers to their questions.


looks like you made the list @keto ,this is where being organized and polite in your argument gets you. This of course only makes me a bigger Steadly fan,. I wonder what his origin story is...


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

vadsy said:


> looks like you made the list @keto ,this is where being organized and polite in your argument gets you. This of course only makes me a bigger Steadly fan,. I wonder what his origin story is...


Aww, shucks, twernt nuthin. I even backtracked and called myself out on being wrong. I should be banned, not just ignored.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)




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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> They have been steadily losing market share to competitors for a couple decades at least.


Market share isn’t everything. A business can grow while losing market share when the market expands. Even if Gibson has lost market share to competitors in the past two decades, even though it’s still top 5 for guitar brands, it has still seen growth based on all indicators of the global guitar market. The Gibson Les Paul is still the most desirable “Les Paul style” guitar (hence the term “Les Paul style”). The fact that there is this much bandwidth spent on that brand and especially that guitar sure indicates to me that it’s not getting knocked off its throne soon, no matter what competitors do.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Robert1950 said:


>


“A lot more tone”. How did they quantify the amount of tone? Does it play more notes than a previous Epi LP?

Also, I wasn’t blown away by all that new extra tone in that video. Sounded ok, but not more than that.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Interesting. I found it on my first try.


can someone ask this guy why he hasn't posted a link to this yet?


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

keto said:


> I should be banned, not just ignored


I've been banned and deleted. I wonder if I can get a trifecta?


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

vadsy said:


> can someone ask this guy why he hasn't posted a link to this yet?


Ahem ..


Steadfastly said:


> Interesting. I found it on my first try.
> 
> 
> laristotle said:
> ...


Then again, maybe I am on his ignore? Woo Hoo!


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

jdto said:


> “A lot more tone”. How did they quantify the amount of tone? Does it play more notes than a previous Epi LP?
> 
> Also, I wasn’t blown away by all that new extra tone in that video. Sounded ok, but not more than that.


Just wanted to compliment you on your signature, wise words indeed. hypocrisy - Google Search


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

So, steering back to the original thread topic for a moment if that's possible... 
I'm hoping the new headstock includes ES 335/339 models as a 339 Pro is top of my GAS list at present. This leads me to wonder if Gibson will start to discount 'old headstock' Epi's since I expect most folks would prefer the newer vs older at the same price. Then I will jump on an old headstock 339!!


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

keto said:


> Just wanted to compliment you on your signature, wise words indeed. hypocrisy - Google Search


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Ahem ..
> 
> Then again, maybe I am on his ignore? Woo Hoo


Oh, you’re on the list fer sure. Using black meme magic is forbidden


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

jdto said:


> Market share isn’t everything. A business can grow while losing market share when the market expands. Even if Gibson has lost market share to competitors in the past two decades, even though it’s still top 5 for guitar brands,.


That is absolutely correct. A quick search will show that as of 2018, they had 22% of the market which includes acoustic guitars. That's not bad considering all they have gone through and the growth of the competition in the last two decades. The same reports says they have 40% of the LP market OVER $2000.00. It doesn't mention how much they have under the $2000.00 price point but I would expect it to be a lot less as that is where the competition is hitting them the hardest.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Welcome to the club @keto . Glad to have you. 

@Steadfastly , I believe the Gibby's over $2000 are their bread and butter. LP Studios and guitars in that range aren't exactly being swept away by the competition neither I wouldn't imagine. But you can do a quick search and provide me the details. Shouldn't take you more than a couple of seconds!

Sorry OP, I couldn't resist. Got a case of Steadly GAS.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Epiphone - Andertons Music Co.


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## dmc69 (Jan 20, 2011)

Wow. I'm having serious GAS for some of these models.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

DavidP said:


> I'm hoping the new headstock includes ES 335/339 models


It looks like the headstock is the same as it’s always been for these. Not the clipped-wing look, but the elongated open book. 

Epiphone | Original ES Collection


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Those are longer with a more exagerrated "open book" at the top.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

troyhead said:


> It looks like the headstock is the same as it’s always been for these. Not the clipped-wing look, but the elongated open book.
> 
> Epiphone | Original ES Collection


You're right, the 335 always had the taller open book version. Is the new one exactly like that?
I'm looking forward to seeing these in person.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

DavidP said:


> So, steering back to the original thread topic for a moment if that's possible...
> I'm hoping the new headstock includes ES 335/339 models as a 339 Pro is top of my GAS list at present. This leads me to wonder if Gibson will start to discount 'old headstock' Epi's since I expect most folks would prefer the newer vs older at the same price. * Then I will jump on an old headstock 339!!*


I think that might break it.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

I would still much prefer Epi Japan


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

tomee2 said:


> You're right, the 335 always had the taller open book version. Is the new one exactly like that?
> I'm looking forward to seeing these in person.


If I remember correctly the blurb from Gibson, they are slightly different but close. Perhaps some other member can chime in here and give a more positive answer.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Steadfastly said:


> That is absolutely correct. *A quick search will show that as of 2018, they had 22% of the market which includes acoustic guitars. T*hat's not bad considering all they have gone through and the growth of the competition in the last two decades. The same reports says they have 40% of the LP market OVER $2000.00. It doesn't mention how much they have under the $2000.00 price point but I would expect it to be a lot less as that is where the competition is hitting them the hardest.


Why make people search? Post your source.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Rozz said:


> Why make people search? Post your source.


Maybe some comments made earlier are correct in that he's making it all up?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

laristotle said:


> Maybe some comments made earlier are correct in that he's making it all up?


They probably are. Why? Because why would you not post your proof?

Its also hilarious that "just buy cheap in america" is the one who made a namm thread.

Last night I learned that a brand new LP studio is $1999 and no longer comes with a case, nor do SG standards. The $1699 standard used to come with a case, then gibson had a change of heart.

If you like LP studios, buy the used ones now.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

laristotle said:


> Maybe some comments made earlier are correct in that he's making it all up?


Seriously? @Steadfastly If you are making stuff up and trying to pass it off as anything other than your opinion, please smarten up. We are all adults here and no one has time for that type of thing. Thx.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Rozz said:


> Seriously? @Steadfastly If you are making stuff up and trying to pass it off as anything other than your opinion, please smarten up. We are all adults here and no one has time for that type of thing. Thx.


Rozz, you must be new here.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Rozz said:


> Seriously? @Steadfastly If you are making stuff up and trying to pass it off as anything other than your opinion, please smarten up. We are all adults here and no one has time for that type of thing. Thx.


either way, new or not, we appreciate you trying


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Rozz: potentially the latest inductee on to the Steadly ignore list.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

vadsy said:


> either way, new or not, we appreciate you trying


Someone’s got to be able to crack that nut.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

LanceT said:


> Someone’s got to be able to crack that nut.


I dunno, he has been fairly solid. 

I do have to say, if we were to have a thread on meeting members in person, he’d be in my top three


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

vadsy said:


> I do have to say, if we were to have a thread on meeting members in person, he’d be in my top three


Like maybe at the consumer’s marketing convention.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

LanceT said:


> Like maybe at the consumer’s marketing convention.


who would he be representing?


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

vadsy said:


> who would he be representing?


This is just too good. Who do you think?


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Roryfan said:


> Rozz, you must be new here.


Not really man, more like naive and slow witted.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

LanceT said:


> This is just too good. Who do you think?


either Maytag, pushing the front load washer, or Lennox as they're a pretty big player in the HVAC world but have been steadily losing market share to Trane


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

vadsy said:


> either Maytag, pushing the front load washer, or Lennox as they're a pretty big player in the HVAC world but have been steadily losing market share to Trane


Well I was thinking Gibson because negative publicity is still publicity. Very likely their market share is increasing because of all this.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

LanceT said:


> Well I was thinking Gibson because negative publicity is still publicity. Very likely their market share is increasing because of all this.


anything I can do to help


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I'm either happy or regretful that I contributed to the mess. So conflicted.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

vadsy said:


> anything I can do to help


For every 10th Trane Hvac unit that is sold, include a Les Paul Studio.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

So did we see the epiphone made in USA casinos or what


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

LanceT said:


> Like maybe at the consumer’s marketing convention.


More likely at your door on a Saturday morning.



vadsy said:


> who would he be representing?


The lord.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Roryfan said:


> The lord.


I don’t think the big guy would approve


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

RBlakeney said:


> So did we see the epiphone made in USA casinos or what


Epiphone Quietly Unveils Made-In-USA Casino | NAMM 2020 | Reverb News


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Rozz said:


> Seriously? @Steadfastly If you are making stuff up and trying to pass it off as anything other than your opinion, please smarten up. We are all adults here and no one has time for that type of thing. Thx.


Look it up on Google. All the figures are there. The shift in market share on N. American products started back in the 70's and really gained momentum in the late 80's and 90's. I don't know how old you are but I was with an international company back then and witnessed it happening. Being interested in this, I have seen it happening in pretty much all aspects of industry where there was a large enough and valuable enough market for other countries and companies to get in and compete for the dollars. It started mainly in the auto industry and other mechanical industries. 

I really don't care what yours or others opinion is of me. If you don't believe me, I really don't care. But if you want to know, do some research. It is quite easy. And I don't make stuff up. If my view is wrong and someone can'point it out with facts, I will admit it and have done so.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Steadfastly said:


> Look it up on Google. All the figures are there. The shift in market share on N. American products started back in the 70's and really gained momentum in the late 80's and 90's. I don't know how old you are but I was with an international company back then and witnessed it happening. Being interested in this, I have seen it happening in pretty much all aspects of industry where there was a large enough and valuable enough market for other countries and companies to get in and compete for the dollars. It started mainly in the auto industry and other mechanical industries.
> 
> *I really don't care what yours or others opinion is of me. If you don't believe me, I really don't care. But if you want to know, do some research. It is quite easy. And I don't make stuff up. If my view is wrong and someone can'point it out with facts, I will admit it and have done so*.


It isn't a question of others thinking poorly of you without cause. It is a case of you drawing fire because you are claiming facts are readily available on the Internet to buttress your case, but when people can't corroborate your assertions you fail to provide your source(s). 

The effect is: you come off as an arrogant individual who thinks they are the only person who knows how to use a search engine. Why not just post your source? In this case you appeal to authority...with YOU being the authority. That is fine if you frame your assertions as opinion, but not as fact. That is not how reasonable, fair-minded people discuss or debate. And if the stats you aren't providing happen to be the lynch pin of your point, you are killing your own credibility. This is why people(not just me) think you may be disingenuous.

It is obvious you don't care what other people think of you or you would treat them with the respect they deserve when they try to engage you in conversation regarding your posts and ask you for your sources. The request is not unreasonable for a person seeking to offer up an informed reply to your thoughts, it is the denial on your part that is unreasonable. 

All imho of course.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Nicely put Rozz. You're a very well spoken man.


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## Private Hudson (Jan 27, 2018)

Rozz said:


> In this case you appeal to authority...with YOU being the authority.


Identifying a fallacious argument ... holee crap. You have restored just a wee bit of my faith in the internet.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Rozz said:


> It isn't a question of others thinking poorly of you without cause. It is a case of you drawing fire because you are claiming facts are readily available on the Internet to buttress your case, but when people can't corroborate your assertions you fail to provide your source(s).
> 
> The effect is: you come off as an arrogant individual who thinks they are the only person who knows how to use a search engine. Why not just post your source? In this case you appeal to authority...with YOU being the authority. That is fine if you frame your assertions as opinion, but not as fact. That is not how reasonable, fair-minded people discuss or debate. And if the stats you aren't providing happen to be the lynch pin of your point, you are killing your own credibility. This is why people(not just me) think you may be disingenuous.
> 
> ...


!00% correct...your opinion. There have been no facts by you or anyone else that support that Gibson has maintained or recouped any market share. Show me those numbers supported by market analysis and we can talk. I will ten copy the link to where I got the information. But I will not do anyone's work for them. Some may have found what I did and not want to admit it. I hope you are not one of them and I don't think you are.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> !00% correct...your opinion. There have been no facts by you or anyone else that support that Gibson has maintained or recouped any market share. Show me those numbers supported by market analysis and we can talk. I will ten copy the link to where I got the information. But I will not do anyone's work for them. Some may have found what I did and not want to admit it. I hope you are not one of them and I don't think you are.


how can you be so evasive in this thread but so helpful with posting info in other threads? you posted an address, fax number and email to a library 6000 miles away from you for a guy that lives next to that library. A fax number, for crying out loud! dude, your whole argument structure literally reads like brainwash coaching by a thrill kill cult


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Steadly, post links or just stop.

I wonder if the usa casinos will come with cases.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Haha! Make a claim, then get others to prove their side of the argument, classic.

This shit hasn't stopped in his entire time on this site, don't hold your breathe.


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

In a feeble attempt to get this thread somewhat back on its original track:


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Steadfastly said:


> !00% correct...your opinion. There have been no facts by you or anyone else that support that Gibson has maintained or recouped any market share. Show me those numbers supported by market analysis and we can talk. I will ten copy the link to where I got the information. But I will not do anyone's work for them. Some may have found what I did and not want to admit it. I hope you are not one of them and I don't think you are.


No thanks man. 

Cheers.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> !00% correct...your opinion. There have been no facts by you or anyone else that support that Gibson has maintained or recouped any market share. Show me those numbers supported by market analysis and we can talk. I will ten copy the link to where I got the information. But I will not do anyone's work for them. Some may have found what I did and not want to admit it. I hope you are not one of them and I don't think you are.


You make an assertion based on “easily available information”, then when others doubt your assertion, you flip the argument to demand they prove the opposite of what you’re claiming. You have provided no sources to back up your assertions. Are we to then just take you at your word?

“Trust me, I saw the information to back up what I said on a website I found in an easy Google search” 

If it’s an easy Google search, then it would take you all of 20-30 seconds to type it in and pull up the website showing the proof of the assertion you made. Then others could find the proof of their own assertions. Right now, you’re expecting us to just accept what you say at face value, despite our skepticism. The burden of proof is on the claimant, not on the skeptics.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

"In 2010, Gibson brought in $300 million in total sales and showed an earnings margin of 12.9% on its balance sheet before taxes and interest. By 2015 Gibson was doing $2.1 billion in annual revenue, but its profit margin dropped to 4%."

I think it is reasonable to infer that their market share was actually increasing, however other financial issues like over-extension and debt load put them into bankruptcy.

"PressReader.com - Your favorite newspapers and magazines."


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

jdto said:


> You make an assertion based on “easily available information”, then when others doubt your assertion, you flip the argument to demand they prove the opposite of what you’re claiming. You have provided no sources to back up your assertions. Are we to then just take you at your word?
> 
> “Trust me, I saw the information to back up what I said on a website I found in an easy Google search”
> 
> If it’s an easy Google search, then it would take you all of 20-30 seconds to type it in and pull up the website showing the proof of the assertion you made. Then others could find the proof of their own assertions. Right now, you’re expecting us to just accept what you say at face value, despite our skepticism. The burden of proof is on the claimant, not on the skeptics.


JD, if I had been asked in a mannerly way, I would have provided the information. I did share it with you on one of your posts but I did not give a link. I did that because you have always proved to be polite, reasonable and helpful when asked. If people are mannerly, I will take the time to provide the information they ask me for and take time to explain the answer to their questions. But when people claim or assert that I am lying or misleading or making assumptions that have no basis, I will not spend any time giving any information to these ones.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Rozz said:


> "In 2010, Gibson brought in $300 million in total sales and showed an earnings margin of 12.9% on its balance sheet before taxes and interest. By 2015 Gibson was doing $2.1 billion in annual revenue, but its profit margin dropped to 4%."
> 
> I think it is reasonable to infer that their market share was actually increasing, however other financial issues like over-extension and debt load put them into bankruptcy.
> 
> "PressReader.com - Your favorite newspapers and magazines."


Remember, Rozz, that was "Gibson", not Gibson guitars. They acquired companies along the way that may likely accounts for the increase in total sales but the drop in profit margin. Let's stick to market share of their guitars as that was the discussion that Keto started. 

I don't understand why others have not found the link to the information. As it intimated in a recent post, I think some have but don't want to share it and admit it.

Just the very fact that we see an explosion of competition from Asia, Europe and the Orient should tell the reasonable person they have lost market share. That is not rocket science. 

I will ask this question for you and others that are interested. When Japan started to enter the auto industry did the market share of the Big Three go up or down? Who of the 
Big Three was the world leader? Where are they now? Still on the top of the heap? 

If you or anyone else have anything else to discuss this issue, PM me. I am finished wasting my time on it.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Lulz. Great post, Stead


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Steadfastly said:


> Remember, Rozz, that was "Gibson", not Gibson guitars. *They acquired companies along the way that may likely accounts for the increase in total sales but the drop in profit margin.* Let's stick to market share of their guitars as that was the discussion that Keto started.


If the decreased margin came from the acquired companies losing money as you suggest, the sector that kept the company in the red must have been the guitar sector.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Rozz said:


> If the decreased margin came from the acquired companies losing money as you suggest, the sector that kept the company in the red must have been the guitar sector.


It _was_ the expansion that was the main issue, spread to thin. The instrument division was never "in trouble".


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Aargh Laddie!


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

I am looking forward to checking out the 50s LPs when they hit stores. I am currently without humbuckers (although I guess filtertrons are technically humbuckers).


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> If you or anyone else have anything else to discuss this issue, PM me. I am finished wasting my time on it.


I PM'd you last night Steadly. Perhaps you missed it. Should be in your "conversations" section. You don't need to rush your response though. I'm a patient man.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Maybe one of the 'interpreters' could pass the message on to him that he has a PM. Then he can play dumb and say 'nope, nothing there'.
But maybe being on the 'honour list' means you no longer qualify as 'anyone else'.
Wonder how many pages this thread shows up for him as. Two?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

jb welder said:


> Maybe one of the 'interpreters' could pass the message on to him that he has a PM. Then he can play dumb and say 'nope, nothing there'.
> But maybe being on the 'honour list' means you no longer qualify as 'anyone else'.
> Wonder how many pages this thread shows up for him as. Two?


Purée for science, @jb welder

Imma put you on ignore, you pm me to see if it gets through the ignore list protected firewall. Maybe post here when it’s done so it’s documented


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Dorian2 said:


> I PM'd you last night Steadly. Perhaps you missed it. Should be in your "conversations" section. You don't need to rush your response though. I'm a patient man.


Quoted, in case you're on the "list".


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

jb welder said:


> Maybe one of the 'interpreters' could pass the message on to him that he has a PM. Then he can play dumb and say 'nope, nothing there'.
> But maybe being on the 'honour list' means you no longer qualify as 'anyone else'.
> Wonder how many pages this thread shows up for him as. Two?


LOL

He posts so many threads asking people's opinions - and yet he has about 80% of us blocked. Kinda self-defeating. Like trying to have a conversation with earplugs in. 

Maybe he'd have better luck at AGF. They're all much nicer people than us, more knowledgeable - and they don't have to get everything shipped to the border, they already live down there.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

vadsy said:


> Purée for science, @jb welder
> 
> Imma put you on ignore, you pm me to see if it gets through the ignore list protected firewall. Maybe post here when it’s done so it’s documented


PM sent. Might as well test the flagging function too: @vadsy


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

jb welder said:


> PM sent. Might as well test the flagging function too: @vadsy


Well. Well. I didn’t get a notification for this post but saw the thread refreshed. Checking in I see you posted but it won’t show me content although everything else is pretty clear,., you need nerves of steel not to check things out if you have pages of this sort of thing. Still no PM or email notification of it.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

It looks to me like Epiphone is bringing out some kick-ass sh1t this year. I'm impressed. 

Maybe Gibson has been following Steadfastly's posts and they've decided to reclaim some of that lost market share. Whatever the reason is, it's working for me.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Lincoln said:


> It looks to me like Epiphone is bringing out some kick-ass sh1t this year. I'm impressed.
> 
> Maybe Gibson has been following Steadfastly's posts and they've decided to reclaim some of that lost market share. Whatever the reason is, it's working for me.


I have been in direct contact with the CEO and he has hired me as his #1 consultant and is paying me a handsome salary of two sets of acoustic strings per years\. I am not supposed to divulge my salary as per our contract so I will have to delete this post by the end of the day.

On a serious note I think you are very close to being 100% correct on them trying to reclaim some market share with the Epiphone line or at last maintain what they have. That is the purpose all companies have by having a secondary line or company. The quality of the Epiphone line seems to be going up slightly from what I have seen. They are priced quite competitively so they may very well be heading in the right direction which is obviously the goal of all companies.


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

The black V, red SG, and burst firebird are really, really looking nice.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I can also tell, by looking at 3 or 4 2D photos on the internet, that quality is way, way up. Specs look great. These are all going to be great sounding, great playing guitars that will be "as good or better than someone's Gibson". 

They will surely fix Gibson's problem of nearly fading into oblivion, market-share wise. Congrats, Epiphone, you just won the internet.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

If Gibson's second line guitars (Epiphone) were built in Mexico instead of China, would they be more respected?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Lincoln said:


> If Gibson's second line guitars (Epiphone) were built in Mexico instead of China, would they be more respected?


absolutely


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Where they're built doesn't really matter to me. QC is what makes the difference.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Lincoln said:


> If Gibson's second line guitars (Epiphone) were built in Mexico instead of China, would they be more respected?


It would to some. Nationalism runs strong in some minds along with some ignorance.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Are there many Mexican Nationals here? Put up your hands if you are one. 

PS: Still waiting for a reply Steadsmeister..


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Dorian2 said:


> Are there many Mexican Nationals here? Put up your hands if you are one.


I've traveled Mexico quite a bit (but I've never been to a resort) and I've never met a Mexican I didn't like. In my experience, they are hard working, honest people.

I've also never handled a Mexican Fender I didn't think was a great little guitar. I can't say the same for even USA Gibson.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Lincoln said:


> I've traveled Mexico quite a bit (but I've never been to a resort) and I've never met a Mexican I didn't like. In my experience, they are hard working, honest people.
> 
> I've also never handled a Mexican Fender I didn't think was a great little guitar. I can't say the same for even USA Gibson.


Many of the major music manufacturers have a number of Mexican employees for sure Dave. Hell, my LP's bridge has a Duncan SH-5 DCJ in it. J for Maricela Juarez, the then pickup winder and now Duncan Custom shop Manager lol.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I've heard it said many times, :,. MIM Fenders are made by Mexicans in Mexico, US Fenders are made by Mexicans in the US. Either way.,, I have owned a heck of a lot of both and they're great but recently stripping down an Asian Fender it was pretty poorly constructed, just as expected


----------

