# COB (Clean octave blend) pedals, how are you using them?



## Sunny1433 (Nov 23, 2018)

Been getting into COB type pedals recently cause of Doyle Bramhall, Ariel Posen, Joey Landreth et all and I was just wondering what people are using and where they're placing these in their signal chains.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Note that there are NO analog "clean octave" pedals. The Prescription Electronics COB pedal has a control to blend between "clean" and octave-up. The octave up, due to how it is derived, IS dirty. They should have stuck a hyphen between the words "clean" and "octave" in the name.

Ironically, today I'm finally boxing up a pedal that has been sitting unboxed for a couple years. It is a combination of an overdrive (a highly modified DOD250-type drive) and an octave fuzz (Ampeg Scrambler).

The original Scrambler had two major weaknesses: you couldn't adjust the sensitivity, and you couldn't adjust the volume. Like the COB, it comes with a control for blending between the octaving and unaffected (but boosted) signal. 

I decided to package up the modified drive circuit as the "front end" of the Scrambler. Like all overdrive pedals, turning up the gain gets you a more compressed and sustained sound. The result, when fed to the octaver, is that you can effectively control the intensity and "bloom" of the octave. Being able to blend the overdrive with the octaver at the output is nice. The only catch, I suppose, is that the volume control is between the output of the overdrive front end and the Scrambler. It sets the overall output level, but you can't adjust the output level independently of the "push" to the octaver. The compromise is that the Gain control can make the octave more robust.

The pedal is far more flexible than the stock Scrambler was. A lot of interesting and sometimes surprising sounds. If I push the Scrambler hard, and set its "Texture" control just right, it implodes in a Neil Young kind of way. But it can also produce nuanced octaving like the old Tychobrahe Octavia, serious balls-to-the-wall fuzz, and warm overdrive that you can chord with.

In any event, to respond to your query, feeding an octave pedal with a "sustainy" input signal, with the top-end rolled off, can bring out the best in an octave pedal, whether that pedal allows you to blend clean with octave or not.


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## BobChuck (Jan 16, 2012)

I use a Dandrive Austin Blender... always stacked with other drive pedals... The Blender is always first on my pedalboard. Just before the drive section, sometime it is a fuzz, sometime a treble booster or TS style, depending of the amp.

The volume maxed out, the drive knob at zero, and the blend knob at the limit where I won't lose the "multiple strings tracking".

If you set the blend knob too high, it behave like a classic octave/fuzz....where you get crisp octave and no "multiple strings tracking". You have to play single note.

I don't use the full octave, It's hiding somewhere behind...just to add texture and "controlled overtone".

I love mine to death.


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## Sunny1433 (Nov 23, 2018)

BobChuck said:


> I use a Dandrive Austin Blender... always stacked with other drive pedals... The Blender is always first on my pedalboard. Just before the drive section, sometime it is a fuzz, sometime a treble booster or TS style, depending of the amp.
> 
> The volume maxed out, the drive knob at zero, and the blend knob at the limit where I won't lose the "multiple strings tracking".
> 
> ...


That's a really cool way to use it! Those dandrive pedals are KILLER.


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## KoskineN (Apr 19, 2007)

Mine is usually first in chain, before fuzzes and drive pedals. I have the Kingtone Octaland, and the Mythos Argo. I love to set it similar to what @BobChuck as described, like a dirty boost that adds a small amount of ring mod to the sound. Otherwise I set the Blend almost at full if I play some Hendrix stuff. There is so much cool sounds in those pedals.


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## Sunny1433 (Nov 23, 2018)

KoskineN said:


> Mine is usually first in chain, before fuzzes and drive pedals. I have the Kingtone Octaland, and the Mythos Argo. I love to set it similar to what @BobChuck as described, like a dirty boost that adds a small amount of ring mod to the sound. Otherwise I set the Blend almost at full if I play some Hendrix stuff. There is so much cool sounds in those pedals.


Nice! I just bought a Jackson Audio Fuzz from a forum member and I'm super excited to try that out! Having that octave side as being switchable separately is pretty cool.


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## Seance (Jun 18, 2018)

KoskineN said:


> Mine is usually first in chain, before fuzzes and drive pedals. I have the Kingtone Octaland, and the Mythos Argo. I love to set it similar to what @BobChuck as described, like a dirty boost that adds a small amount of ring mod to the sound. Otherwise I set the Blend almost at full if I play some Hendrix stuff. There is so much cool sounds in those pedals.


How would you compare the Octaland to the Argo?

And how do they compare to using a green ringer or ring mod into a fuzz?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Seance said:


> How would you compare the Octaland to the Argo?
> 
> And how do they compare to using a green ringer or ring mod into a fuzz?


ALL analog octave-up boxes will produce a sideband product that sounds like a ring modulator when you do double stops (or whatever you call it when you hold a note on the fret on, say, your E or B string and bend a note on the string below it). However, they are NOT ring modulators. That weird descending pitch is a momentary side effect, where ring modulators will produce sum and difference tones all the time.

I imagine the Dan Armstrong Green Ringer was called that in the first place because the weird side-effect reminded him or someone of a ring modulator. But it, and the EQD Tentacle (which is a note-for-note clone) are pretty barebones octave-up units. The "better" ones, like the Superfuzz and Foxx Tone Machine and their many derivatives from other companies, be it ZVex, Fulltone, or whomever, all have more sophisticated front ends to precondition the signal, as well as tone control and gain-recovery stages. What's in the "middle" of those pedals, however, is identical to what one finds in a Green Ringer. I mod mine a bit to strike a compromise between the basic GR and the more full-blown octave-up units.


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## Seance (Jun 18, 2018)

mhammer said:


> ALL analog octave-up boxes will produce a sideband product that sounds like a ring modulator when you do double stops (or whatever you call it when you hold a note on the fret on, say, your E or B string and bend a note on the string below it). However, they are NOT ring modulators. That weird descending pitch is a momentary side effect, where ring modulators will produce sum and difference tones all the time.
> 
> I imagine the Dan Armstrong Green Ringer was called that in the first place because the weird side-effect reminded him or someone of a ring modulator. But it, and the EQD Tentacle (which is a note-for-note clone) are pretty barebones octave-up units. The "better" ones, like the Superfuzz and Foxx Tone Machine and their many derivatives from other companies, be it ZVex, Fulltone, or whomever, all have more sophisticated front ends to precondition the signal, as well as tone control and gain-recovery stages. What's in the "middle" of those pedals, however, is identical to what one finds in a Green Ringer. I mod mine a bit to strike a compromise between the basic GR and the more full-blown octave-up units.


How close does the EQD Tentacle circuit get to a Dan Armstrong Green Ringer?

From another forum I've read posts from a guy who admits that he is somewhat
of a ringmod evangelist and he advocates for the Chicago Stompworks Octave Up. 
Not only because of cheaper price... but also because he described it as "clearer" 
than the Tentacle.

I've got a BitQuest that has Ring Mod *OR* Octave-ish modes (but not _both_) and
I'm trying to debate myself into being satisfied with using the BitQuest and another fuzz 
to halfway approximate or "mimic" those sounds so I'm not tempted by things like
Clean/Octave Blend or Foxx Tone Machine or Green Ringer clones, etc.
The BitQuest does allow you to blend the effected and "dry" signal. But... is digital.

Here is an attempt at convincing myself:

__
https://soundcloud.com/caesarshift%2Foctave-approaches

It would be nice to have those (single notes only) octave-doubling sounds but also have
some amount of controllable skronk when chording two or more strings.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Seance said:


> How close does the EQD Tentacle circuit get to a Dan Armstrong Green Ringer?


You'll pardon the pun, but it's a dead ringer. Exact same circuit. I mean, the specific transistors ARE different than the GR, but the transistors in the original have no particular unique characteristics. They were the generics of the era.

As I implied earlier, the Ringer/Tentacle lacks the more complex front end and tone control sections that a number of other well-known octave-up units have. But here's how to improve a GR/Tentacle if you're up for it.

Put a 10uf capacitor and 10k pot (variable resistance) in series with each other and put them in parallel with R5 (6K2). That will provide variable gain or "push" to the doubling section.
Because we've potentially increased the gain, we also need a volume control in order to get effect/bypass balance. That involves substituting a 47k/50k log pot for R13 on the output.
Strong octaves really only emerge in a perceptible way once all the "harmonic haze" has disappeared after the pick attack. Unfortunately, by that point, the signal level has also decreased. It's like your lead actor emerges from the smoke into a short spotlight that quickly dims. Not especially dramatic. Better octave-up units will often include a back-to-back pair of diodes to ground. People naively think these are what produces the distortion/fuzz, but that's not their role or effect. Plenty of distortion without them. Rather, they serve as a very simple peak limiter, that works to keep the output level _relatively_ constant. And because the volume seems to remain fairly steady, it allows the octave to be heard more easily. It's really there to affect your perception, although it does produe a wee bit of additional distortion. What a friend of mine does is stick a small value resistor (100-470R) in series with those diodes to soften their clippipng, and put a small capacitor in parallel with the whole thing to filter out some of the harmonic content that the diodes will unintentionally add.
The modded GR sounds a helluva lot better. Not as great as a good Foxx Tone Machine to my ears, but much more usable.


> From another forum I've read posts from a guy who admits that he is somewhat
> of a ringmod evangelist and he advocates for the Chicago Stompworks Octave Up.
> Not only because of cheaper price... but also because he described it as "clearer"
> than the Tentacle.


Don't know that particular pedal but, I would agree that the GR is not an especially "clear" sound. Of course, with all octave-up units, their clarity depends on what you feed them. Single notes on the neck pickup with the guitar's tone rolled back are preferred. None of the analog units handle chords very well.


> It would be nice to have those (single notes only) octave-doubling sounds but also have
> some amount of controllable skronk when chording two or more strings.


I gather the Bitquest is digital, given the controls included (the Cntrl 1 & 2 suggest he used an FV-1 chip). Here's a comparison of 6 different analog octave-up units, 5 of which I built. The mic I used provides the annoying background beat. Not an especially informative video, but it's probably the most octave-up units you're likely to hear in quick succession.


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## Seance (Jun 18, 2018)

Thanks for the info and video @mhammer That's lots to think about.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

Seance said:


> How close does the EQD Tentacle circuit get to a Dan Armstrong Green Ringer?
> 
> From another forum I've read posts from a guy who admits that he is somewhat
> of a ringmod evangelist and he advocates for the Chicago Stompworks Octave Up.
> ...


Thanks for sharing that, real Jack White! Don't think it's a sound for me, enjoyed it all the same.


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## Seance (Jun 18, 2018)

MarkM said:


> Thanks for sharing that, real Jack White! Don't think it's a sound for me, enjoyed it all the same.


🤣


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## CDWaterloo (Jul 18, 2008)

Here how Josh Smith is using his Myhtos Argonaut octave pedal (starting about 10:55 mark).


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## Seance (Jun 18, 2018)

CDWaterloo said:


> Here how Josh Smith is using his Myhtos Argonaut octave pedal (starting about 10:55 mark).


Have you seen this clip?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

This is precisely why I build variable gain into the Green Ringer. The original (and the EQD Tentacle, which is a clone) have no option to vary the gain and "push" that results in a better octave. As Smith illustrates, it is obviously possible to use a drive pedal of some sort ahead of the Ringer to achieve the same thing. But I prefer to have the drive built into the Ringer, such that turning the pedal on only requires ONE stomp, rather than 2.


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## BobChuck (Jan 16, 2012)

I was looking at those Argonaut pedal but, thanks to CDWaterloo link, I will pass.
The full size Argo is a much better pedal IMO, the "blend" knob is essential.

Like I said in a previous post here, I run mine first and the drive after. Sounds better, tracks multiple strings better.
... but I do use the blend knob to my advantage.

I like Josh Smith but for some reason, don't like the tone from the first video.
I prefer the tone he gets in the video posted by Seance.


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## Seance (Jun 18, 2018)

mhammer said:


> This is precisely why I build variable gain into the Green Ringer. The original (and the EQD Tentacle, which is a clone) have no option to vary the gain and "push" that results in a better octave. As Smith illustrates, it is obviously possible to use a drive pedal of some sort ahead of the Ringer to achieve the same thing. But I prefer to have the drive built into the Ringer, such that turning the pedal on only requires ONE stomp, rather than 2.


I presume this example from Reddit came about due to your suggestions?









I picked up a B-stock green ringer clone from Gup Tech. I've been
enjoying running various drive and fuzz pedals into it. The pedal itself
is pretty small, but I could see the value of just adding a Green Ringer
and another circuit in one pedal.

I don't generally like Big Muff type pedals, but adding a Green Ringer
made things a lot more interesting.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

From the poster's comments, it would appear to implement mods I suggested.

I like the Fairfield vibe, but I wonder if it crosses over a trademark line.


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## Seance (Jun 18, 2018)

mhammer said:


> I like the Fairfield vibe, but I wonder if it crosses over a trademark line.


Not for a pedal a person makes for themselves and not for sale.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Then there's no harm, no foul.


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## Sunny1433 (Nov 23, 2018)

Glad to have started this discussion on this thread!  I’ve learned loads about octave pedals too.
Oh and my Jackson Audio Fuzz is for sale if anyone is interested. I’ve decided to keep things simple with my MJM germanium fuzz









FS: - SOLD


$250 plus shipping. Up for sale is my mint Jackson Audio Modular Fuzz. It's an amazingly versatile fuzz with lots of options for EQ shaping, if you're into that. I usually just plugged straight in with everything at noon and it sounds fantastic. It's currently got the Modern Fuzz (like a...




www.guitarscanada.com


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