# Recommendations for reverb



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Looking for a natural sounding reverb unit for my Stangray head. I've been looking at the Valvetrain. I wish there was somewhere I could try it out. I'd like to hear everyones recommendations for reverb pedals.


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

I still recommend the EHX Holy Grail, I got it since a year and the sound always surprise me for the price I've paid for it! Have a try!


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## Guest (May 12, 2008)

I'll second the Grail lineup. I had a Holy Grail and now own a Holier Grail and they do sound great on the spring setting.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Paul said:


> Define "natural". Do you mean natural as in sounds like traditional analogue reverbs we remember from old recordings, (spring reverbs, EMT plate reverbs), or do you mean natural as in sounds like playing in an empty Grace Anglican Church?



Yes Natural as in analogue sounding. I'm thinking like the Valvetrain. Actual springs, 6V6 power tube 12Ax7 preamp and recovery tube.
Its quite expensive so I thought I'd see what others are using.I don't mind spending the money but I can't find anyone who carries it so that I can at least demo it. Long&Mcquade has the 63 Fender tube reverb that is pretty much the same thing. I will probably try that as I can and its a few dollars less. Not much less.
Also Scott at axeandyoushallreceive has a Van amps reverbmate that definitely looks worth checking out which is a whole lot less.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

test out a holy grail before you drop big $$ on something else - most pro's use the HG live too


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## martin6stringcustoms (Mar 13, 2008)

I used the Tech 21 Reverb for awhile and it sounded pretty good. They aren't really expensive either.


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## Kapo_Polenton (Jun 20, 2007)

They all suck unless they are in your effects loop! My JCM800 and plexi clone don't like my digiverb much and it gets really good reviews. Maybe its time to look into effects loop mods... something else for me to screw up and bring to nonreverb for fixin!  What can I say.. i like to tinker.


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## a Pack of Wolves (Sep 5, 2007)

i'm a fan of the digitech 'verb pedal

not expensive,good variety of sounds,very tweakable


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

As long as you are not looking for that Fender spring reverb sound.....the Radical Red Reverberator sounds KILLER !!!!! highly recommend it......and fits on your pedal board with nooooooo problem.


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

I have a Holy Grail Plus. It is really good. 

Having said that I dont think ANY pedal will beat a nice spring reverb tank.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I just picked up a Holy Grail on loan from L&M to try. I'd like to try the unit with the decay but they didn't have one in stock.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Well this was a bust. I got the Holy Grail reverb pedal from L&M on loan just to try out today. I had a band practice tonight. I set it up and turn on my amp. The tone was thin and I had no volume. So right away something is wrong. I'm fiddling around trying to find out why I have no volume. I figure it must be the Holy Grail pedal. So I tap it a couple of times on the floor and bing my volume comes back and the tone is good. But no reverb. I dial the reverb all the way up. I fiddle with the switch back and forth from spring and hall. Nothing. Right out of the box this thing does not work. I read a bunch of reviews on Harmony Central that talked about how cheaply made this unit is. But it doesn't even work brand new out of the box. I was going to use it while I saved up for the 63 fender reverb tank and then use it as a backup as I've heard that 63 fender reverb can be a bit unreliable. I think I'll rent the 63 fender reverb for a month and give it a good try to see if its worth the money to me.


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2008)

Yea, I personally have never encountered a bum Grail I couldn't fix in a few minutes, but they are notorious for this problem. The Holy Grail + and the Holier Grail don't have these issues. Have you tried the Line6 Verbzilla? Another very nice digital reverb. And of course the Dr. Scientist Radical Red Reverberator -- uses the same DSP engine as the Alesis MicroVerb -- sounds very, very nice.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Sent you a PM

Dave


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Yea, I personally have never encountered a bum Grail I couldn't fix in a few minutes, but they are notorious for this problem. The Holy Grail + and the Holier Grail don't have these issues. Have you tried the Line6 Verbzilla? Another very nice digital reverb. And of course the Dr. Scientist Radical Red Reverberator -- uses the same DSP engine as the Alesis MicroVerb -- sounds very, very nice.


I never even got to hear how it sounded as I never got the reverb effect to work. I sure would not want to buy a product that is notorious for this problem no matter how easy they are to fix. If I'd wanted a DIY, I would bought a DIY.
I will be going to the music store some time this week to check out the verbzilla. I really didn't want to spend an awful lot on a reverb pedal as I plan on buying a spring reverb tank. The pedal will just be temporary until I can afford that (maybe a couple months.) then will be used just as a back up.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

greco said:


> Sent you a PM
> 
> Dave


PM returned.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Natural?


Digital will get closer to a real reverb than any spring tank or any device that simulates a spring tank.

Of course it comes down to what you like, but personally I'll take a good clean digital any day. 

There are many to choose from.

I'd go with something a bit tougher than Electro Harmonix. Boss and Digitech make sturdy units that sound great. I'd run it in the effects loop of the amp.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Paul said:


> Here is a local option for the Fender Reverb.
> 
> I don't know how current the website price is, but Rob Fowler's stuff is built to survive a nuclear attack. Rob is this side of Cambridge, Hwy 24 and Footbridge Road.



Thanks for the link Paul. It looks exactly like the Fender 63 reverb except the Fender reverb is almost $400 cheaper. I wonder if the guy is using NOS tubes. Wonder why else its so much more. Even the valvetrain is cheaper. Sure would be nice to have one built to match my black tolex Stangray though.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Natural?
> 
> 
> Digital will get closer to a real reverb than any spring tank or any device that simulates a spring tank.
> ...


How can a digital reverb, possibly, get closer to a real reverb when a real reverb is.... well... "Real"


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2008)

guitarman2 said:


> How can a digital reverb, possibly, get closer to a real reverb when a real reverb is.... well... "Real"


Because spring-based reverb is not "real" reverb -- it's using springs in an attempt to sound like "real" reverb. Real reverb is what you hear in a room or a cave or a canyon. And that can only be done with any good approximation in the digital domain. Springs don't approximate rooms very well.

Now, spring reverb unto itself has become a sound. We're not trying to emulate rooms with springs, but we're enjoying the spring reverb sound for what it is: spring-based reverb.

Does that make sense?

If you're after reverb in the truest form: you're trying to approximate the ambiance of a physical space. You can't beat digital.

But if you're after the sound of a wave traveling through a set of springs then of course springs are the thing. But digital does this very, very well now. I'd say near perfectly. The spring-based reverb unit is a surprisingly uncomplicated system to model.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

iaresee said:


> Now, spring reverb unto itself has become a sound. We're not trying to emulate rooms with springs, but we're enjoying the spring reverb sound for what it is: spring-based reverb. *Does that make sense?*.


Very well explained. Thanks

I never thought of it that way until I was playing in an empty gymnasium size hall recently...certainly didn't need any reverb!!

Dave


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> How can a digital reverb, possibly, get closer to a real reverb when a real reverb is.... well... "Real"


A "real" reverb as you call it is the natural effect that occurs when sound reflects in an environment.

The tanks with springs in them are not real reverb. They are a primitive attempt to reproduce a real reverb.

If you want to replicate a tank reverb I suppose there are devices with that level of distortion available.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Does that make sense?


Yeah. I need a cave.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> A "real" reverb as you call it is the natural effect that occurs when sound reflects in an environment.
> 
> The tanks with springs in them are not real reverb. They are a primitive attempt to reproduce a real reverb.
> 
> If you want to replicate a tank reverb I suppose there are devices with that level of distortion available.


Most reverb units manufactured today are based on the original vintage spring units. Alot of them try to emulate the original spring units. If I can find a decent pedal that does this that is durable for under $200 I'd buy it as a backup to a good spring unit.


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

guitarman2 said:


> Most reverb units manufactured today are based on the original vintage spring units. Alot of them try to emulate the original spring units. If I can find a decent pedal that does this that is durable for under $200 I'd buy it as a backup to a good spring unit.


Holy Grail +, Holier Grail -- both do very good spring reverb, no reliability issues, under $200.


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## Big White Tele (Feb 10, 2007)

*T rex*

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...151087&src=3WFRWXX&ZYXSEM=0&CAWELAID=67706514 Thers one for sale on the Z page for 225.00


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## Guest (Jun 13, 2008)

Paul said:


> Sorry, iaresee.....Terry might not beleive you, based on his 1st hand sample size of one.


He bought a Holy Grail. Notoriously hit and miss. The others suffer not the same QA issues. The Holy Grail + in particular is a nice deal.

But hey: I'm not here to sell anyone anything. Makes no difference to me what he does with his hard earned scratch.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

iaresee said:


> He bought a Holy Grail. Notoriously hit and miss. The others suffer not the same QA issues. The Holy Grail + in particular is a nice deal.
> 
> But hey: I'm not here to sell anyone anything. Makes no difference to me what he does with his hard earned scratch.


If I can get a chance to try out the other Holy Grail products I will evaluate accordingly. I just don't have much faith in a company that puts out such a shoddy product regardless of how much better the other product lines are. They would have been far better off to improve on the original Holy Grail and discontinue production of the faulty, unreliable units. Instead of producing a Holy Grail+ and a Holer Grail, while still distributing the original.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Paul: I emailed Rob about his reverb tanks. They certainly seem worth checking out. The price of $1K listed on his site I guess is an old price and they are significantly cheaper now.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Paul said:


> If you go and see him, PM me, I wouldn't mind accomanying you on the trip, (if you don't mind sharing a vehicle with a member of the Brantford Musicians Association.) I promise not to prosyletize, if you promise not to criticise.



lol. Ok I will let you know if I go.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Well I decided, Friday to buy the reissue 63 Fender Reverb. I used it Friday night and it sounded pretty good. I will see how it sounds after a retube. I've already got an NOS Jan phillips 12AX7 for it. The tube store has some new military Jan phillip 12AT7s. I bought one with a balance triode for my Stangray that really warmed it up. I just have to see what I can replace the 6V6 with.


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