# Soundproofing/absorption on the cheap



## GuitarsCanada

Ideas and recommendations for some soundproofing or perhaps a better term is a little sound absorption since I dont thing soundproofing is 100% possible


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## bzrkrage

Shipping blankets. Work really quite well.


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## ronmac

bzrkrage said:


> Shipping blankets. Work really quite well.


Yup. I buy them at Princess Auto when on sale for $9.99

If you are wanting to build something more elegant, look up Roxul Safe and Sound insulation.


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## jbealsmusic

I've built tons of small wall hangable baffles made with 3/4" milled pine and Roxul. That said, on the cheap, nothing beats shipping blankets.


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## GuitarsCanada

Shipping blankets sound good to me


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## 335Bob

Here's a good read.
*Acoustic Treatment and Design for
Recording Studios and Listening Rooms*


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## Jim DaddyO

Sound isolation (misnamed sound proofing) and acoustic treatment are 2 different things. Which are you shooting for?


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## GuitarsCanada

Jim DaddyO said:


> Sound isolation (misnamed sound proofing) and acoustic treatment are 2 different things. Which are you shooting for?


I think leaning more to isolation


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## amagras

One more vote for moving blankets.


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## Jim DaddyO

GuitarsCanada said:


> I think leaning more to isolation



That is the more difficult (read expensive to do it right) of the two.

To make one room "contain" sound and not let it escape requires some work and money. Of course this depends on how far you want to go. The basics of isolating a room is to build a room within a room, with the inner room not contacting the outer one in any way, which is easy to say but hard to do. Sound is energy and will transfer from one medium to the next (air, to the wall material). The "room in a room" method is also known a MSM (mass, spring, mass). Done right, you have a heavy wall (mass) and air space with insulation (spring) and then a heavy wall again. Think of this system as a drum with both skins on. The goal is to have the natural resonant frequency of this "drum" well below what we can hear. The sound still transfers out, but you just can't hear it (Newtonian physics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed from one form to another). Properly done, you have to take into account doors, windows, air handling, wire chases, etc. on all 6 sides (4 walls, ceiling, floor). A really well isolated room, generally sounds like shit when you are in it, so then comes "treating" the room.

Now, that is going to extremes and is the methods studios use. I doubt that is how far the average home owner wants of needs. So there are a few things that we can do just to help calm the neighbours down a bit. It is always good to have the basic theory in mind when you do something though.

Hardboard insulation and plywood. This is an easy cheap one. Get a piece of rigid (not foam, a board type, like Owens Corning 703), cut out the size you need for your amp or drum kit, put plywood on top of it, set your amp or drum kit on that. You can dress up the edges as long as what you do does not bridge the plywood and the floor). Stopping the floor from vibrating (even if concrete) will help a lot. Thicker is better, both in the insulation and plywood, though there comes a point of diminishing returns. 

Suspended acoustic ceilings will help a bit. the cavity filled with insulation will improve it and will move you toward an MSM system. 

Anything heavy and soft on the walls will help like the packing blankets mentioned, but you will likely notice more within the room than outside it. Also, a room that is all soft will muddy your sound. Higher frequencies are easiest to control. 

Egg crates suck, they hold the dust, are hard to clean, are a fire waiting to happen, and do a shitty job on everything except a few higher frequencies. Just don't.

An insulated wall is better than a non insulated wall. If you know how a wall is built, you can see it is an MSM system. Just not very isolated between the masses. A 2 x 6 framed wall is better than a 2 x 4 framed wall (but you still have the framing attaching the 2 outer masses in both which is bad). If you want to build a whole second wall, take the sheathing off the inside first. You only want the mass on the inside and outside surfaces, getting into multiple separated masses (or leaves) gets complicated in a hurry. 

More drywall. A second skin of drywall will help. DO NOT get the new lighter type drywall, you want mass (weight). Remember, we want to lower the resonant frequency of the wall, weight helps.

Bass traps will help with the acoustics but will also take those standing waves in the corners and convert them to heat (very little heat). Corner bass traps are easy to build, remember, you have corners between the wall and ceiling, and the wall and floor too, so they can go in a lot of places.

The basic theory will guide you, there are probably 100 little tricks that people have picked up over the years.


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## bzrkrage

Jim DaddyO said:


> That is the more difficult (read expensive to do it right) of the two.
> 
> To make one room "contain" sound and not let it escape requires some work and money. Of course this depends on how far you want to go. The basics of isolating a room is to build a room within a room, with the inner room not contacting the outer one in any way, which is easy to say but hard to do. Sound is energy and will transfer from one medium to the next (air, to the wall material). The "room in a room" method is also known a MSM (mass, spring, mass). Done right, you have a heavy wall (mass) and air space with insulation (spring) and then a heavy wall again. Think of this system as a drum with both skins on. The goal is to have the natural resonant frequency of this "drum" well below what we can hear. The sound still transfers out, but you just can't hear it (Newtonian physics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed from one form to another). Properly done, you have to take into account doors, windows, air handling, wire chases, etc. on all 6 sides (4 walls, ceiling, floor). A really well isolated room, generally sounds like shit when you are in it, so then comes "treating" the room.
> 
> Now, that is going to extremes and is the methods studios use. I doubt that is how far the average home owner wants of needs. So there are a few things that we can do just to help calm the neighbours down a bit. It is always good to have the basic theory in mind when you do something though.
> 
> Hardboard insulation and plywood. This is an easy cheap one. Get a piece of rigid (not foam, a board type, like Owens Corning 703), cut out the size you need for your amp or drum kit, put plywood on top of it, set your amp or drum kit on that. You can dress up the edges as long as what you do does not bridge the plywood and the floor). Stopping the floor from vibrating (even if concrete) will help a lot. Thicker is better, both in the insulation and plywood, though there comes a point of diminishing returns.
> 
> Suspended acoustic ceilings will help a bit. the cavity filled with insulation will improve it and will move you toward an MSM system.
> 
> Anything heavy and soft on the walls will help like the packing blankets mentioned, but you will likely notice more within the room than outside it. Also, a room that is all soft will muddy your sound. Higher frequencies are easiest to control.
> 
> Egg crates suck, they hold the dust, are hard to clean, are a fire waiting to happen, and do a shitty job on everything except a few higher frequencies. Just don't.
> 
> An insulated wall is better than a non insulated wall. If you know how a wall is built, you can see it is an MSM system. Just not very isolated between the masses. A 2 x 6 framed wall is better than a 2 x 4 framed wall (but you still have the framing attaching the 2 outer masses in both which is bad). If you want to build a whole second wall, take the sheathing off the inside first. You only want the mass on the inside and outside surfaces, getting into multiple separated masses (or leaves) gets complicated in a hurry.
> 
> More drywall. A second skin of drywall will help. DO NOT get the new lighter type drywall, you want mass (weight). Remember, we want to lower the resonant frequency of the wall, weight helps.
> 
> Bass traps will help with the acoustics but will also take those standing waves in the corners and convert them to heat (very little heat). Corner bass traps are easy to build, remember, you have corners between the wall and ceiling, and the wall and floor too, so they can go in a lot of places.
> 
> The basic theory will guide you, there are probably 100 little tricks that people have picked up over the years.


Wow. Where were you 2 years back when I was doing my build?
These are all the things I looked up from all the "DIY studio" sites all in one.
I did the room in a room, walls all 2x6, Roxol,Quietrock dry wall inside, double out. It's a diamond 4x4x4x6x6 with double iso door.Keeps the kids quiet!










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vimmywins

Here you are, the best and cheapest acoustical blankets. These are sound blocking and sound sorption barriers that combine mass, flexibility, and limpness to block noise from transmitting from one area to another. They are available clear, non-reinforced, and reinforced in a variety of weights and styles to meet a multitude of applications.


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## BSTheTech

I recently heard about a gel that goes between two layers of gyproc. Trying to track it down.


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## ronmac

BSTheTech said:


> I recently heard about a gel that goes between two layers of gyproc. Trying to track it down.


greenglue.ca - Canadian distributor of Green Glue


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## Jim DaddyO

Oh, I just thought of another tip. If you have ever been into a pro studio, look around and pay attention, you will note that there are very few, if any, parallel surfaces. Walls splay out and even the ceilings are not in line with the floor. This reduces the chance of standing waves of frequencies building up.

"Clouds" are another handy and easy to do item. Take a piece of rigid fibreglass insulation, put a frame around it, cover it with a light "sound transparent" material, hang them from and ceiling and mount them on the walls. The material can be as decorative as you like, even photo printed to make murals and the like. Clouds will trap and dissipate sound waves between them and the walls. They are also another chance to make surfaces non-parallel if mounted with one edge closer to surface they are mounted on than the other.


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## knight_yyz

B&H Photo, is the USA but they ship purolator so you don;t have any customs fees. Prepay the tax


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## vimmywins

Here you go the best soundproof acoustical blankets. These are also used as the blocking component in barrier backed composites. When used in conjunction with a quilted fiberglass absorber, STC ratings of up to 27 can be achieved.


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## Adcandour

vimmywins said:


> Here you go the best soundproof acoustical blankets. These are also used as the blocking component in barrier backed composites. When used in conjunction with a quilted fiberglass absorber, STC ratings of up to 27 can be achieved.


What do they cost? I don't see any pricing information and don't feel like filling out any forms. Do you know? Thanks.

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## BSTheTech

Its spam from India.


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## Lull

Hi,

My music room is on the same floor as my kids' rooms and I wanted to reduce the amount of sound leaking through the door. My goal was to improve sound transmission loss (noise leaking out) and absorption on the inside at the same time. Opening the walls wasn't an option, so tried to find a product that I could install on the door/wall and that wouldn't be really ugly.

I installed a piece of Barymat M-100D on my music room's door such that it is at least 5" larger than the door to cover the door-frame gap. The Barymat M-100D composite material has a 1.0 lb. per sq. ft. barrier combined with a deep embossed vinyl ‘carpet-like’ wear surface and a 0.25 in. polyurethane foam spacer. The resulting noise reduction outside the room, while not spectacular, is appreciable. I don't know by how many dB the sound transmission loss was improved, but I see a good improvement in the mid-high to high-frequency range. Note that I also installed thick weather stripes all around the door frame to further reduce noise leakage.

You can find more information here.

Here's what it looked like once installed:


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## isoneedacoffee

Lull that's a neat solution. Do you have to pull it aside like a curtain each time you go in or out? If so it must be fastened in only a few spots. Does it take the abuse well or do you see much wear and tear?


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## Lull

No, the Barymat is actually fixed to the door. I don't have to pull it aside like a curtain each time you go in or out; that was one of my main requirement. When I close the door the mat pushes against the frame around the door to create a seal. It is screwed to the door using large plastic washers I painted in black (the black circles you seen on the picture). I don't see any wear and tear; the material is very robust. It's commonly used in tractors and helicopters to reduce engine noise entering the cabin/cockpit.

I'll take a better picture when I get back from work to show the tiny contraption I had to build to prevent the Barymat from folding at the top and the right side (the mat is about 12" larger than the door to cover the frame). It's arguably not the most aesthetic solution but it does the job quite well.


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## mawmow

Not an easy issue.
I once rent a condo on the highest floor of a building. I asked the owner if it was well isolated since I played guitar and did not want to annoy the neighbours. He showded me how wall were built : doubled gyproc walls separated by an inch of air space between condos. He said he already allowed two locators to have a piano.

Well, as I came in with some boxes, my immediate neigbour was playing the piano and it echoed I as it were in MY condo ! When we were fully installed, we would still hear it but less loud. Fortunately, she was an accomplished player !

My research showed that the walls were built on metal instead of wooden studs, and ceiling were not isolated. While the floor was made of wood glued on rubber thread seating on cement (I saw the guy work on it), I could distinctly hear my other neighbour walking with her wooden heeled shoes ! 

So, wood studs in the wall with some smooth isolation, isolated soil and ceiling appears as important as isolated walls...


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## ampdude

I can't add much to Jim's excellent response on soundproofing, but from an absorption standpoint, I've had great success with Primacoustic panels from Quebec. They are reasonably priced, attractive, and work really well. I have them in my home studio, as well as my hi-fi listening room. 

If you're looking to add diffusers (to retain the "energy" of the room), Sound Momentum (also in Quebec) makes very effective and VERY attractive panels. 

Ultimately, unless you go all out on soundproofing (see Jim's responses), you're better off doing the following:

1. Get to know your neighbours and agree on times that it's okay to play.
2. Don't play too loud (you need your hearing). 
3. Design the room so that it sounds good to YOU. Over damping a room can kill the sound that YOU hear.


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## Jim DaddyO

ampdude said:


> I can't add much to Jim's excellent response on soundproofing


It's not my original idea, I am just passing on the information gleaned elsewhere. This single page has excellent information. You really can go down a rabbit hole on the subject.

Recording Drums


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