# Spoiler Alert



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

What the hell is it with these little 4-cylinder sub-compact commuter cars, that have engines under 2l, but a "spoiler" on the rear hood Is there actually _any_ need whatsoever of them requiring different air flow to maximize acceleration and maintain top speed? Is their fuel consumption at 60kmh somehow predicated on such efficient aerodynamics? Wouldn't the competitiveness of their car be improved by simply putting racing stripes and a cigar-smoking Woody Woodpecker decal on the side?


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

i love it when they put on glasspack exhausts or whatever the millennial equivalent is. watch out boys, someones got a honda...that just spent 8 seconds trying to max out third gear...clearly a racecar, look at the rims.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

mike_oxbig said:


> i love it when they put on glasspack exhausts or whatever the millennial equivalent is. watch out boys, someones got a honda...that just spent 8 seconds trying to max out third gear...clearly a racecar, look at the rims.


I believe the exhaust you speak of is called a "fart can". I just roll my eyes when they drive by


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Spoilers actually provide no benefit until you reach speeds most people would consider irresponsible and unsafe on public roads. In fact, below those speeds, they actually add drag, reducing performance. Not to mention, drawing (often the wrong kind of) attention to one's self. I'll take a nice low key car any day...stealth mode baby.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

The best use for spoilers on most road cars is a spot for the 3rd brake light.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

LanceT said:


> The best use for spoilers on most road cars is a spot for the 3rd brake light.


no no, stop it,,. we are here to complain


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2018)

On the Celica 4th gen forum they called it R.I.C.E. I cannot remember what the acronym stands for but the meaning is racing enhancements that do absolutely nothing and are usually on cars that are not fast to begin with. There was a RICE thread and they would post pictures of the RICE cars they would see out in public.

I like the expensive cars that when they hit a certain speed the spoiler comes up and the car lowers to the ground.


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Player99 said:


> On the Celica 4th gen forum they called it R.I.C.E. I cannot remember what the acronym stands for but the meaning is racing enhancements that do absolutely nothing and are usually on cars that are not fast to begin with. There was a RICE thread and they would post pictures of the RICE cars they would see out in public.
> 
> I like the expensive cars that when they hit a certain speed the spoiler comes up and the car lowers to the ground.


i cant tell if youre 14 or 104 lol

they're being racist. hondas are asian cars. asians eat rice. rice rocket.
dont worry though ive never heard of an asian getting upset over the term. maybe they never understood it until now and i've just ruined it for white trash everywhere.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2018)

mike_oxbig said:


> i cant tell if youre 14 or 104 lol
> 
> they're being racist. hondas are asian cars. asians eat rice. rice rocket.
> dont worry though ive never heard of an asian getting upset over the term. maybe they never understood it until now and i've just ruined it for white trash everywhere.


"Race Inspired Cosmetic Enhancements"

*Race is not ethnicity, it is racing car race.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2018)




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## Guest (Apr 6, 2018)




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## Guest (Apr 6, 2018)




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## Boogieman (Apr 6, 2009)

Back in the mid-90's internet, they used to call them "rice boys". There used to be a web site by an Asian American, who would put up photos of those aesthetically souped-up, all show but no go Japanese cars for laughs. Not sure if it is still around.

I used to live and work in TO for a few years around that period and saw quite a few of those around. Not all of them were driven by Asians, though. I drove a VW GTI VR6 at the time, and I did my best to ignore those cars with a tailpipe tip the size of a coffee can rumbling next to me at the lights. I did not have tinted glass, so I tried not to chuckle. They were the rather thin-skinned sort and could easily be provoked. Got nothing to prove to those dudes. 

I once joked that Mel Lastman did not need to call in the military to help cleaning up TO streets after that snowstorm. There were plenty of those tricked out Japanese cars with coil-over and ground effects. They would make nice snow plows.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Hold on folks - Mark never told us the *size* of the spoilers in question.

My car fits the bill - 1.8L hatchback with a spoiler. The spoiler wasn't even relevant in the car, it was part of the package that came with alloys and fog lights (things I actually wanted). If it didn't have the spoiler I wouldn't have cared.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

As long as they don't cut me off or do some other dick move infront of me I don't care what they drive. Just like I don't care what kind of guitar someone else plays. I think the only group of people that complain worse than musicians are golfers on golf forums. They got us beat by a mile.
Now I'm going to have to go out and look to see if my car even has a spoiler. Its a hyundai sonata with the sport package so it might. Thats how observant I am with cars. I bought it cause it was a good deal on a demo. I think it has some kind of dual exhaust looking thingy at the back thats fake.
The way people drive nowadays I'd rather have a road full of cars that look fast and go slow than a road full of really fast cars.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

I must be old.... I have never made an alteration to any part of the exterior of any car I've ever owned.... closest I've come is thinking, _these tires look better than those ones_. 

_Guitar_ mods, well that's a whole other thread!


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

SWLABR said:


> I must be old....


I don't think age has anything to do with it


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I've never made alterations...unless you count roof racks or the odd Grateful Dead sticker.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

vadsy said:


> no no, stop it,,. we are here to complain


Sometimes my good sense gets in the way of fun.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

LanceT said:


> Sometimes my good sense gets in the way of fun.


that’s right but try and go with the grain of the status quo here and we can all grow as curmudgeons


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Lost interest at “4 cylinder sub-compact”.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

While shopping for a new car, I discovered this. Civic Type R.










I love the concept and being, Honda, the execution is probably great, too. The fact that you couldn't factory delete the wing made it a 'no go'. When I found out there was a year-long waiting list, that sealed the deal.


I also think loud or open pipes on a Harley is similarly silly. What are they trying to do, convince us their fat, slow bike isn't? Not working. Ride a Harley for what it's good for, not for what it isn't. Leave the exhaust system alone and quite annoying everyone with your imperceptible performance improvement that would still see you get your ass kicked by a 250cc sport bike.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

High/Deaf said:


> Ride a Harley for what it's good for,


Depositing oil stains on your driveway?


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

BSTheTech said:


> Depositing oil stains on your driveway?


Well, I was thinking more along the line of 'wind on your face', 'freedom', etc. But yea, there was a time that was their calling card. Never wanted to park directly in front of a biker bar. The road surface was worse than a freshly oiled piece of pavement.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Budda said:


> Hold on folks - Mark never told us the *size* of the spoilers in question.
> 
> My car fits the bill - 1.8L hatchback with a spoiler. The spoiler wasn't even relevant in the car, it was part of the package that came with alloys and fog lights (things I actually wanted). If it didn't have the spoiler I wouldn't have cared.


Well you're right about that bit, but my own point was essentially reiterated by jbfairthorne that spoilers, of any size, really, don't really do anything useful for the vast majority of drivers in the vast majority of driving contexts. Hence my bewilderment at their inclusion on so many vehicles. In your own case, you didn't care. It wasn't any sort of "improvement" but neither was it a problem or deal-breaker. It was just _there_.

I'm just curious about the sort of market research that led manufacturers to include something in the design of the car that didn't really do anything, other than suggest greater sportiness than the car really has; like racing stripe on a mini-van (Although appearances can be deceiving. See the Volvo station wagon that Paul Newman tricked out for David Letterman in Letterman's segment on _Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee_.)


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)




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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Many years ago my cousin put the motor and transmission from a '68 Corvette into a little 4 cylinder Toyota pickup. 

I think it was a little faster after the swap.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

I would do this though....


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> Many years ago my cousin put the motor and transmission from a '68 Corvette into a little 4 cylinder Toyota pickup.
> 
> I think it was a little faster after the swap.


whats the hp on a 68 Vette? 300? 350?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

butterknucket said:


> Many years ago my cousin put the motor and transmission from a '68 Corvette into a little 4 cylinder Toyota pickup.
> 
> I think it was a little faster after the swap.


When I was MUCH younger, my friends and I used to read _Road & Track _magazine like it was the Bible, or some life-or-death message from CSIS. One of the things that always intrigued me were the ads in the mag for various custom items. At the time, one of the things that was considered hip was retrofitting VW bugs with fibreglass chassis that made them look like expensive Italian racing machines. From what I understood at the tme, the retrofit was more than merely cosmetic, because the new body would be accompanied by an assortment of other changes that could take advantage of the VW frame, wheelbase, etc.

This is an example I could find on-line. http://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=76978&country=us


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)




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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

vadsy said:


> whats the hp on a 68 Vette? 300? 350?


No clue.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Didn't bother us, but we thought it was ridiculous (and just asking to be pulled over, breaking rule #1 - always on the down low). We used to call them Pokemon Cars. 

The only thing worse was the dudes with the oversized/overpowered subwoofers in their trunk, and all you could hear was the chassis rattling like the blazes cuz they ran out of money before they installed the vibration dampers.


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Those are the best. They think they're so cool blasting their rap or techno basslines because it sounds good in the car. most dont even realize that from outside it sounds like their entire car is a phone left on vibrate.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

I doubt it sounds good inside the car either. Some people just can't tell the difference between loud and good. Like when I ran a venue - some 16 year old DJ is on and all I hear is distortion (not the good kind). Worried about my speakers I run up to the booth and he's got channels and master dimed on his DJ mixer; the PA master is at 1. At least he graciously took the lesson I proceeded to give him re gain staging, and all was fine for the rest of the night.


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2018)

some more retarded car mods ..


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

vadsy said:


> whats the hp on a 68 Vette? 300? 350?


For some models, yes - 300-350 is accurate. Although the big boy 427s got up to 435bhp. Doubt you could shoehorn one of THOSE in a Toyota, though


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## Guest (Apr 6, 2018)

Toyota FJ40 Land Cruiser with a blown 510 ci big-block Chevy V8
1,278 horsepower and 1,070 lb-ft of torque
Toyota FJ40 with a Supercharged Big-block V8 – Engine Swap Depot


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)




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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> I doubt it sounds good inside the car either. Some people just can't tell the difference between loud and good. Like when I ran a venue - some 16 year old DJ is on and all I hear is distortion (not the good kind). Worried about my speakers I run up to the booth and he's got channels and master dimed on his DJ mixer; the PA master is at 1. At least he graciously took the lesson I proceeded to give him re gain staging, and all was fine for the rest of the night.


There is also the matterof wavelength. The sub-bass content is actually a wavelength longer than is physically possible to hear inside the car. People 20ft away hear it louder than the people inside the vehicle itself.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

mhammer said:


> There is also the matterof wavelength. The sub-bass content is actually a wavelength longer than is physically possible to hear inside the car. People 20ft away hear it louder than the people inside the vehicle itself.


thats right, these stupid kids don't know what they're doing. better call the real adult pros who have quadraphonic sound figured out with their pro setups and 5500 dollar turntables.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

^still drives a pokemon car. With 5" tip (resonator).



mhammer said:


> There is also the matterof wavelength. The sub-bass content is actually a wavelength longer than is physically possible to hear inside the car. People 20ft away hear it louder than the people inside the vehicle itself.


Yes, but I have absolutely zero expectation of anyone with such a car understanding this, or frankly giving a damn. I will say they can be fun at tailgate parties.... when you have the trunk open and are standing about 20 feet away.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Granny Gremlin said:


> ^still drives a pokemon car. With 5" tip (resonator).


sadly no but I'm hoping I can get that Kia or Sonata that the TV keeps showing me during commercial breaks for the Big Bang Theory. I swore I was going to buy one as soon as Sheldon told me to,,. he is SO funny, bazinga!


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

mhammer said:


> When I was MUCH younger, my friends and I used to read _Road & Track _magazine like it was the Bible, or some life-or-death message from CSIS. One of the things that always intrigued me were the ads in the mag for various custom items. At the time, one of the things that was considered hip was retrofitting VW bugs with fibreglass chassis that made them look like expensive Italian racing machines. From what I understood at the tme, the retrofit was more than merely cosmetic, because the new body would be accompanied by an assortment of other changes that could take advantage of the VW frame, wheelbase, etc.
> 
> This is an example I could find on-line. http://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=76978&country=us



that's sexy as hell, and for the price, rather attractive. i mean, i don't know what the value of those things is, but when i look at it from the perspective of _hey you get to drive a cool looking car for the price of used hyundai...
_
i would drive the living daylights out of something like that
but it would have to be black/black


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Well they were all the rage in 1965. It is a very handsome car. And because it's so low to the ground, 80kmh will feel like 120.

And....no spoiler.


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## Guest (Apr 7, 2018)

mhammer said:


> because it's so low to the ground, 80kmh will feel like 120


I concur with this.
I rode in a friend's Fiberfab Avenger GT with a Porsche engine.
And yeah, it was scary.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I've ridden in MGBs and once hitched a ride in a Manic GT. Both felt like breakneck speed, even though we weren't really going any faster than the speed of traffic.

It is perhaps digressing too far afield, but this is one of the things I keep bringing up: the increasing diversity of vehicle-sizes and concommitant driver height. How high you sit in the driver's seat changes where the horizon is, and also changes the perceived rate at which you approach that horizon. In other words, folks low to the ground feel like they're going faster, and folks sitting high up think they're going slower. If all vehicles and drivers were at the same general height, it wouldn't be a problem. If there weren't very many vehicles on the road, it wouldn't be a problem. If everyone drove pretty slowly, it wouldn't be a problem. But the roadways are chock-a-block with LOTS of drivers, trying to get where they're going in a hurry, and they can have very different perspectives about how fast they're going, because some are sitting high up in their SUVs, while others are sitting much lower in their smaller vehicles. It's a recipe for conflict.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

mhammer said:


> because some are sitting high up in their SUVs, while others are sitting much lower in their smaller vehicles. It's a recipe for conflict.


my bitch with all the suvs is that riding behind one while in my hyundai, or on the bike, is this:
it's like riding behind a brick fucking wall. me personally, i like to leave a gap between me and the car i'm following. this allows for reaction time to random events i won't be able to see occurring. however, if i back off enough that another vehicle will ALMOST fit in there, 100% of the time, someone WILL force their way into that space. every. single. time. most of the folks driving those behemoths don't need something that big. it's stupid. it makes me hate being on the road.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> my bitch with all the suvs is that riding behind one while in my hyundai, or on the bike, is this:
> it's like riding behind a brick fucking wall. me personally, i like to leave a gap between me and the car i'm following. this allows for reaction time to random events i won't be able to see occurring. however, if i back off enough that another vehicle will ALMOST fit in there, 100% of the time, someone WILL force their way into that space. every. single. time. most of the folks driving those behemoths don't need something that big. it's stupid. it makes me hate being on the road.


Been there. Done that. Bought the t-shirt. Worn it out. Used it to wash the car.

I certainly do NOT tailgate, but frequently encounter the problem you describe. Striking a balance between providing myself adequate safe space for braking, while not providing enough to encourage others to take advantage of that space and impulsively occupy it (thus eliminating not only MY safe space-cushion, but their own as well) is tricky to do. It demands a balance between driving somewhat aggressively, yet conscientiously.

The rule of thumb is one car-length for every 10kmh of speed, in order to provide adequate braking space. People mistake the manouverability that allowed them to suddenly dart_ into_ an available space at high speed with the manouverability (PLUS reaction time) required to get_ out of the way_, should something unforeseen occur. It's the reaction time that makes all the difference. They may have been in another lane keeping their eye out for "their chance", and then zip into the space. But no real reaction time was required, since it all happened during the planning stage. If something sudden and unpredictable occurs in front of them, they now have to formulate a plan to get out of the way, and that is going to add at least another 700-1500msec to the time required to get out of the way; which, at 120kmh is simply not enough if you're 2 carlengths (or less) behind.

Human bias: a fascinating, and often lethal feature of ours.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

good point about factoring in reaction time. most folks don't, and that's a mistake.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

The way I look at it is...if I'm leaving enough space that I feel comfortable with and some clown slides in, I just slow down until I've regained that cushion. I don't let the potential for someone else squeezing in dictate to me what my comfortable following distance is based on the road conditions.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I do that too. Sadly, the clown population is large.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I can not contribute to this thread. I drive a straight piped CRX.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

High/Deaf said:


> While shopping for a new car, I discovered this. Civic Type R.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't worry, those things are almost unanimously hated by car enthusiasts and Honda kids alike. Solely on their appearance. The performance is incredible, but really Honda...?


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