# NAD.1 Metropoulos Metroplex



## Adcandour

Serial#18 (I think that's a good thing, or does it matter these days?)

It finally arrived - at my folks. :sAng_scream:

The good news - he's coming up tomorrow with it. :applouse:

The never happened before news - I pick up my NAD.2 tomorrow and I wasn't expecting that to happen. I'll be on overload with the new goodies. :sFun_dancing:


So, here it is. Can't wait to try it out.


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## sulphur

Nice suprise, congrats!

The demos of that amp are kickass.


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## davetcan

Well if it sounds as good as it looks you've got a real winner on your hands.


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## Scottone

The clips I've heard sound really good. Hopefully this will be "the one" for you...if not, will be looking for it in the emporium LOL


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## urko99

Looking forward to the review!


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## Adcandour

Scottone said:


> The clips I've heard sound really good. Hopefully this will be "the one" for you...if not, will be looking for it in the emporium LOL


Haha, I would typically list it stateside, so I don't feel bad for gouging my GC brethren, but as long as I'd get my money out of it, I would sell it here.

However, the ONLY way I'll be selling this is if it doesn't tonally compare to the vintage one I just traded. If that's the case, I plan on trying to get a vintage marshall that has been modded by Friedman (but with an effects loop this time). It really was a fantastic amp. ( @numb41 is really going to enjoy it).

I really doubt I'll be moving this though. Lance Keltner (sp.?) really seemed sincere bout it being the best Marshall style amp he's heard. I'll find out soon enough.


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## Scottone

What cabinet are you running this through BTW?



adcandour said:


> Haha, I would typically list it stateside, so I don't feel bad for gouging my GC brethren, but as long as I'd get my money out of it, I would sell it here.
> 
> However, the ONLY way I'll be selling this is if it doesn't tonally compare to the vintage one I just traded. If that's the case, I plan on trying to get a vintage marshall that has been modded by Friedman (but with an effects loop this time). It really was a fantastic amp. ( @numb41 is really going to enjoy it).
> 
> I really doubt I'll be moving this though. Lance Keltner (sp.?) really seemed sincere bout it being the best Marshall style amp he's heard. I'll find out soon enough.


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## Budda

I'll be by in an hour.

Congrats, "she's a beaut clark"


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## sambonee

We're going to have to do another amp off and lunch. Let's figure out what day works. We can compare that to the recordings of your Friedman . Do you still have it? We could a b it on the spot.


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## Adcandour

Scottone said:


> What cabinet are you running this through BTW?


It's the avatar I had made not too long ago. Has v30 and a g12 I think? I can't remember.


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## Adcandour

Budda said:


> I'll be by in an hour.
> 
> Congrats, "she's a beaut clark"


You're a busy dude, I'm sure. But whenever you wanna give it a go, I can probably make it happen with a bit of notice.


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## Adcandour

sambonee said:


> We're going to have to do another amp off and lunch. Let's figure out what day works. We can compare that to the recordings of your Friedman . Do you still have it? We could a b it on the spot.


For sure. It would be nice to compare the recordings and grab some food again. I'll get lunch this time.

I just traded the Friedman for a 63 bassman (for my cleans). I wish I held on to it for a few more days, but this metro came much sooner than expected.

maybe late next week?


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## Business

Nice grab!

Amp #18 all time or all at the same time? :sSc_eeksign:


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## Adcandour

Business said:


> Nice grab!
> 
> Amp #18 all time or all at the same time? :sSc_eeksign:


Serial #18 - I don't think I've owned 18 amps. Maybe. Who knows, haha.


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## Business

Ah! Totally didn't get that

People tend to underestimate the number of gear they've had ; )


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## Adcandour

Business said:


> Ah! Totally didn't get that
> 
> People tend to underestimate the number of gear they've had ; )


I fixed it. You read it right; I wrote it wrong. :sSig_DOH:


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## keto

Well, if you're already going Metro, and 2 heads, you might as well have one of these... http://www.guitarscanada.com/showthread.php?60985-Review-MetroAmp-Head-Master-Amp-Head-Switcher


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## Adcandour

keto said:


> Well, if you're already going Metro, and 2 heads, you might as well have one of these... http://www.guitarscanada.com/showthread.php?60985-Review-MetroAmp-Head-Master-Amp-Head-Switcher


I'm thinking I need an amp switcher (since I have a few cabs). That thing is cooool though.


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## Louis

Wow !!!..........Congrats !!

Me too can't wait to hear your review !
Looks Awesome !


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## Adcandour

Review: I don't like it, and I'm very upset about not liking it.

I almost don't want to talk about it. I'm so angry and consumed by this that I'm starting to question if I'm fvck'd in the head.

I totally missed the nature of the distortion while watching the videos. It's a fuzz based grind, and I don't get along with fuzz. The distortion/gain settings are VERY fizzy to my ears - something I should get out of a pedal - not an expensive amp. Is that what you guys are referring to by compressed?

I've tried it through 4 guitars and I give up.


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## numb41

adcandour said:


> Review: I don't like it, and I'm very upset about not liking it.
> 
> I almost don't want to talk about it. I'm so angry and consumed by this that I'm starting to question if I'm fvck'd in the head.
> 
> I totally missed the nature of the distortion while watching the videos. It's a fuzz based grind, and I don't get along with fuzz. The distortion/gain settings are VERY fizzy to my ears - something I should get out of a pedal - not an expensive amp. Is that what you guys are referring to by compressed?
> 
> I've tried it through 4 guitars and I give up.


did you try it at band levels Chuck?


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## Stratin2traynor

adcandour said:


> Review: I don't like it, and I'm very upset about not liking it.
> 
> I almost don't want to talk about it. I'm so angry and consumed by this that I'm starting to question if I'm fvck'd in the head.
> 
> I totally missed the nature of the distortion while watching the videos. It's a fuzz based grind, and I don't get along with fuzz. The distortion/gain settings are VERY fizzy to my ears - something I should get out of a pedal - not an expensive amp. Is that what you guys are referring to by compressed?
> 
> I've tried it through 4 guitars and I give up.


Before you get too upset, you should try it with different speakers/cabs. I had a head once that sounded terrible with the cab I had chosen. When I switched cabs and speakers it was night and day. Amp sounded great. Give it a try if you have a chance.


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## Budda

My JCM800 cab is in the car, and it's smoother than anything with V30's.

Try a greenback loaded cab before you write it off?


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## Scottone

Definitely try it with other cabs as suggested above. I'm thinking that greenbacks or cremebacks would work well.

Still may not be your thing, but at least you won't have regrets down the road.


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## Adcandour

numb41 said:


> did you try it at band levels Chuck?


I just did - the wife thanks you by the way 

It sounds MUCH better, but I can't play like that around here. The notes _do_ compress (or get fizzy) as they sustain, however. The chords sound rich and dynamic and the fizz isn't very noticeable. At least I know now that if I'm selling it to someone in a band, they'll like it.

- - - Updated - - -



Stratin2traynor said:


> Before you get too upset, you should try it with different speakers/cabs. I had a head once that sounded terrible with the cab I had chosen. When I switched cabs and speakers it was night and day. Amp sounded great. Give it a try if you have a chance.


I will have try to hang on to it until I get to Sambonee's jam place. I think he has a few cabs I can try it through. I wonder if I can try it through my new bassman cab? I think Jim (numb41) said it's 4 ohm - or maybe I read it online. I'll have to double check. It would be fantastic if it wqere that simple. Thanks for the reco


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## Budda

Marshalls like to be loud. Maybe it's time you consider the Fractal/Kemper route, given what you want, the money spent and the scenario you can use it?

I like looking at the actual amp as much as the next guy, but if you're primarily playing at home and you want the friedman + the fender + the effects, that seems like a tidy way to do it.


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## Adcandour

Budda said:


> My JCM800 cab is in the car, and it's smoother than anything with V30's.
> 
> Try a greenback loaded cab before you write it off?





Scottone said:


> Definitely try it with other cabs as suggested above. I'm thinking that greenbacks or cremebacks would work well.
> 
> Still may not be your thing, but at least you won't have regrets down the road.


Sounds good. I'll try to track some down.


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## Adcandour

Budda said:


> Marshalls like to be loud. Maybe it's time you consider the Fractal/Kemper route, given what you want, the money spent and the scenario you can use it?
> 
> I like looking at the actual amp as much as the next guy, but if you're primarily playing at home and you want the friedman + the fender + the effects, that seems like a tidy way to do it.


I had the AxeFX Ultra, and it was pretty cool, but I don't have the patience to fiddle with it and still prefer the real thing tonally (I think they've come a long way since the Ultra though - but, again, spending money on something I'm uncertain about). I'm not even sure I want the Friedman - I just want to try it. I don't want to buy anything else and be disappointed.

The guy who owned my marshall before me also owned a BE100 and this is a review he did after a shootout:

The shootout between the "Kitchen Sink" Marshall and the BE100 has begun and I have to say the BE100 is absolutely amazing! I never dreamed it could sound as good as the Kitchen Sink, but it does. I can dial them in to sound identical having the BE100 reference has helped me dial the Marshall in ever better. I keep going back and forth and I can't for the life of me pick a favorite. They both sound and feel mind blowingly good. The FX loop on the BE100 is a definite advantage over the Marshall. And amazingly, they BE100 can be played at even lower volume levels than the Marshall and still sound and feel jaw dropping. Friedman has to be a tonal genius.


The above quote is why I'm really wanting to get my hands on a BE100. However, in a pm to me the previous owner said the BE100 still didn't have that vintage "sumthin-sumthin" the '77 Marshall did. He sold the BE and decided to keep the marshall - until I hounded him.


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## Louis

I would definitely give a call to George and tell him
about the Fizz , I don't think you are crazy !!...I think you have good ears 
and so is Georges , If I'm not mistaking , the Master Volume was design to
get the candy at low volume to !

Was it shipping that caused a little fizz ?......possible !

Give him a call and let us know .


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## keto

What speaker(s) do you have?

I don't expect George would be buying only the cheapest tubes, but what you describe does sound to me like Chinese 12AX7s, which are extremely high gain, and very well suited to some higher gain amps. Or V30 speakers, which I find to have inherent buzz.

No what you describe is NOT compression. Compression isn't necessarily fuzzy, though it is a softer sounding attack generally. When you say it sounds better louder, that's (likely) at least partly due to compression kicking in.


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## Budda

Keto, do you hear buzz in v30's or the midrange bump that they have?


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## Adcandour

keto said:


> What speaker(s) do you have?
> 
> I don't expect George would be buying only the cheapest tubes, but what you describe does sound to me like Chinese 12AX7s, which are extremely high gain, and very well suited to some higher gain amps. Or V30 speakers, which I find to have inherent buzz.
> 
> No what you describe is NOT compression. Compression isn't necessarily fuzzy, though it is a softer sounding attack generally. When you say it sounds better louder, that's (likely) at least partly due to compression kicking in.


The speakers I chose were actually your recommendation for the last Marshall  ( [email protected] V30 and [email protected] G12H30) - which sounded awesome with it, btw.

Thanks re compression definition. I wasn't sure if compression had a double-meaning in the guitar world.


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Louis said:


> I would definitely give a call to George and tell him
> about the Fizz , I don't think you are crazy !!...I think you have good ears
> and so is Georges , If I'm not mistaking , the Master Volume was design to
> get the candy at low volume to !
> 
> Was it shipping that caused a little fizz ?......possible !
> 
> Give him a call and let us know .


Ok, maybe I'll PM him through TGP. I will feel bad if it's just the way it's supposed to be. It seems like the guy's heart/soul gets put into those amps.

But, you're right, that was one of the major sellers for me - great sound at low volumes.


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## numb41

adcandour said:


> I just did - the wife thanks you by the way
> 
> It sounds MUCH better, but I can't play like that around here. The notes _do_ compress (or get fizzy) as they sustain, however. The chords sound rich and dynamic and the fizz isn't very noticeable. At least I know now that if I'm selling it to someone in a band, they'll like it.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> I will have try to hang on to it until I get to Sambonee's jam place. I think he has a few cabs I can try it through. I wonder if I can try it through my new bassman cab? I think Jim (numb41) said it's 4 ohm - or maybe I read it online. I'll have to double check. It would be fantastic if it wqere that simple. Thanks for the reco



Yes, 4 ohms for the Bassman


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## keto

Budda said:


> Keto, do you hear buzz in v30's or the midrange bump that they have?


both actually. With some amps it's a nice enhancement to the crunch/distortion, with other amps it sounds like buzzy badness.


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## Adcandour

numb41 said:


> Yes, 4 ohms for the Bassman


Awesome, gonna mess with it now.


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## Budda

keto said:


> both actually. With some amps it's a nice enhancement to the crunch/distortion, with other amps it sounds like buzzy badness.


Interesting. I get a new cab with V30's this week - they seem to pair well with the 800's in the way we use them.


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## Adcandour

Here's a clip of me trying to get the fizz across. I tried them through another cab (with weber f150s and it was just as bad)

https://soundcloud.com/klon-solo/metroplex-test

- - - Updated - - -

I'm going to go get some ice cream now.


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## Disbeat

Just sounds like it needs to be cranked up to me.


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## Louis

Let us know what George says please .

I feel a little responsible for this and we're talking
about a considerable amount here !

Tx !!

Louis


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## keto

adcandour said:


> Here's a clip of me trying to get the fizz across. I tried them through another cab (with weber f150s and it was just as bad)
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/klon-solo/metroplex-test
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> I'm going to go get some ice cream now.


I don't hear any fizz or fuzziness, though I'm just on my iPad. That must have been done at realllly low volume, can hear the pick hitting strings very clearly.


If you have any 12AX7s on hand, you could try swapping out V1 and maybe V2....


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## bluzfish

It may be just my personal taste but I think the tone in the clip sounds killer.


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## Adcandour

Louis said:


> Let us know what George says please .
> 
> I feel a little responsible for this and we're talking
> about a considerable amount here !
> 
> Tx !!
> 
> Louis


It didn't occur to me once. Don't feel responsible.

I'll try everything first and then talk to him.

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keto said:


> I don't hear any fizz or fuzziness, though I'm just on my iPad. That must have been done at realllly low volume, can hear the pick hitting strings very clearly.
> 
> 
> If you have any 12AX7s on hand, you could try swapping out V1 and maybe V2....


Ok, I'll try it tomorrow at higher volumes (son's getting into bed), but if you don't hear it at the low, then you'll definitely miss it at the higher volume.

Unfortunately, I don't have any 12AX7s around.

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Disbeat said:


> Just sounds like it needs to be cranked up to me.


It certainly sounds better cranked, but DAG specifically mentioned how it can't be brought down to lower-than-bedroom-levels and still retain the tone. That is the primary reason a master wasn't added.

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bluzfish said:


> It may be just my personal taste but I think the tone in the clip sounds killer.


Thanks, it's like I can hear the chords ring out and sound awesome too, but there's this quality to them that I simply don't like. I may be one of the few?

Can you hear fuzz at all - especially on the zeppelin bit. I just started playing it, cause the tone reminded me of the actual song.

If you guys give Black Dog a quick listen - that's exactly what's happening in person (on the lower 3 strings). It loses the 'octavey' vibe on the higher 3 strings, but still has an element of fuzz.


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## Louis

Thanks !!........Appreciate !!.......but still concerned and interested to know !


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## Guest

I can hear the 'fizz'. It's subtle. I can't recommend anything regarding the amp though.
I just wanted to say 'work on your tempo, son. It's all over the place'. lol.


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## Louis

laristotle said:


> I can hear the 'fizz'. It's subtle. I can't recommend anything regarding the amp though.
> I just wanted to say 'work on your tempo, son. It's all over the place'. lol.


I heard a few clips of our friend and think the the loss of tempo
on this one could be caused by the loss of temper !!.....lol !


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## Adcandour

laristotle said:


> I can hear the 'fizz'. It's subtle. I can't recommend anything regarding the amp though.
> I just wanted to say 'work on your tempo, son. It's all over the place'. lol.


haha, were you getting into black dog? Sorry about that.

*kinda good news*. I just saw this on the TGP thread re Metroplex. This is Georges response to something I can't seem to track from earlier in the thread:


_It seems like matching the Metro-Plex with the right speakers is key. I could see someone not liking the amp with certain speakers and loving it with others. Part of selecting frequency ranges and making the EQ so effective was to accommodate different speakers and cabs. The middle control can make up for scooped sounding speakers, for example. The treble can cut back harsh, fizzy sounds. Presence can bring some cut out from a dark sounding cab.

To me, this amp does get sleazy. That's what I hear with the gain pushed a bit and some delay in the loop.

george

_Looks like you guys were right. So, now I am going to PM and see what I need in that cab. There may be hope yet.

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Louis said:


> I heard a few clips of our friend and think the the loss of tempo
> on this one could be caused by the loss of temper !!.....lol !


It was loss of patience. My wife's quote below was her new catch phrase of the day - that was getting under my skin, haha.


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## Budda

If you turn the presence to 0, is it still there...?


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## Adcandour

Budda said:


> If you turn the presence to 0, is it still there...?


That never occurred to me. I'll try it tomorrow (or if my wife goes to sleep soon). I've been pm'd George about the above comment he made re fizz. It sounds like my problem exactly, so I'm hoping that is the solution.

Are there PMs on TGP still? It asks me to start a conversation, so I started one with him. Hope he gets it.


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## Louis

You could email him directly also .


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## Budda

Always try the EQ first. Depending on settings, the 5150 gets woofy in the low end - right up until I turn the resonance knob to 1. Then it still has some lows without loosing it on palm mutes - and we barely downtune!

edit: even rolling your tone knob off a bit (from 10 to 8 maybe) could solve it as well. People forget about actually using the tone knob, but it can be done!


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## Louis

Sent a Private message to Georges so he will definitely help you very shortly !


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## High/Deaf

adcandour said:


> "Oh yeah? Well, your amp sucks." - my wife
> 
> 
> It was loss of patience. My wife's quote below was her new catch phrase of the day - that was getting under my skin, haha.


If you are looking for a retort, I'm sure a few of us would be willing to come up with some ideas. I love it when wives/gf's mention something sucks. Opens up all sorts of comments.


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## Stratin2traynor

Yup. "Starting a Conversation" is the new version of PM. 

As as for your clip, I definitely heard the fizziness you were talking about. I've had the same thing with a few amps. Cleans sounded fine but as soon as gain was introduced, then fizziness started. It all boiled down to speaker selection. Except for one amp which I quickly got rid of. 



adcandour said:


> That never occurred to me. I'll try it tomorrow (or if my wife goes to sleep soon). I've been pm'd George about the above comment he made re fizz. It sounds like my problem exactly, so I'm hoping that is the solution.
> 
> Are there PMs on TGP still? It asks me to start a conversation, so I started one with him. Hope he gets it.


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## Adcandour

Apparently, George uses h75s. I dug a bit deeper into a review.

I just tried it at the arts through UK V30s and it was better. 

I'm calling cosmo music to see what cabs they have for me to try now. The Arts only had one f'n cab.

My fingers are still crossed.


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## Adcandour

High/Deaf said:


> If you are looking for a retort, I'm sure a few of us would be willing to come up with some ideas. I love it when wives/gf's mention something sucks. Opens up all sorts of comments.


Haha, her stinging comments keep me loving her. She can have me laughing. She knows.it was a sore point and exploited it. My baby girl.

Still, I welcome the comebacks. Always good for a laugh.


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## ed2000

Somehow Adcan's amps never seem to collect much dust before they're up for sale again! 

Buy yourself, for less than a hunnert bucks, a Vox Pathfinder 15r. Yah, I know I'm not being helpful!


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## davetcan

I usually hate v30's but I have a Mesa 2x12 Rectifier cab loaded with Mesa V30's and the damn thing sounds huge. Big and warm and absolutely no fizz, at least not with my stuff. Wish you lived a little closer, you'd be more than welcome to try it.

Scumback H75's are also great speakers if you can find them used. They do show up on TGP occasionally. At this stage though I think you need to hear stuff before you buy it


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## Louis

Mesa V30's are specialy voiced for them ,
that's why they less harsh than standard V30's.


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## Adcandour

davetcan said:


> I usually hate v30's but I have a Mesa 2x12 Rectifier cab loaded with Mesa V30's and the damn thing sounds huge. Big and warm and absolutely no fizz, at least not with my stuff. Wish you lived a little closer, you'd be more than welcome to try it.
> 
> Scumback H75's are also great speakers if you can find them used. They do show up on TGP occasionally. At this stage though I think you need to hear stuff before you buy it


Living near you would be a bloody disaster. 

Knock knock. Whos there? Me.
Knock knock. Who's there? Me.
Knock knock. Fuck off, Chuck. 

I just tried it through a Mesa cab, evh cab, engl cab, mardhall, vox and I'm about to try it through a suhr. 


The above said - no h75s in sight.


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## davetcan

Probably a disaster for both of us, LOL.

Jim Seavall at Scumback is a really good guy and usually very easy to talk to. Knows more about Marshall cabs than most people, Drop him a line and ask his opinion, it's likely free, stick the soundclip in there.

http://www.scumbackspeakers.com/



adcandour said:


> Living near you would be a bloody disaster.
> 
> Knock knock. Whos there? Me.
> Knock knock. Who's there? Me.
> Knock knock. Fuck off, Chuck.
> 
> I just tried it through a Mesa cab, evh cab, engl cab, mardhall, vox and I'm about to try it through a suhr. All with different speakers and everyone's scratching there heads.
> 
> I'm waiting for an amp tech to look at it after his.break.
> 
> The above said - no h75s in sight.


- - - Updated - - -



davetcan said:


> Probably a disaster for both of us, LOL.
> 
> Jim Seavall at Scumback is a really good guy and usually very easy to talk to. Knows more about Marshall cabs than most people, Drop him a line and ask his opinion, it's likely free, stick the soundclip in there.
> 
> http://www.scumbackspeakers.com/


btw, if you look on his sound clip page you'll see he uses a Metro for some of them.


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## Adcandour

Update:

I called Jim at Scumback - I need to fill out a form on his site, But...

I got an email from George in the interim stating that he thought the issue was addressed, but apparently the first few amps had this issue and he didn't think it went on any further. He was very apologetic and is going to make it right.

I will keep those of you interested, posted. I'm pretty curious to see what the issue is exactly.

It feels great knowing that I'm not losing my mind.


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## Louis

adcandour said:


> Update:
> 
> I called Jim at Scumback - I need to fill out a form on his site, But...
> 
> I got an email from George in the interim stating that he thought the issue was addressed, but apparently the first few amps had this issue and he didn't think it went on any further. He was very apologetic and is going to make it right.
> 
> I will keep those of you interested, posted. I'm pretty curious to see what the issue is exactly.
> 
> It feels great knowing that I'm not losing my mind.


We all count on your mind , ears and.....soul !!!

Great news !!!


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## Chitmo

Disbeat said:


> Just sounds like it needs to be cranked up to me.


Agreed, sounds to me like you need to get a good attenuator. I have a Rivera Rock Crusher. You can get volumes down to the point where you can hear yourself picking over the amp but still get the intended tone. I use to to tame my Antidote, without having a master volume it's the only way I can get the sound that I want without blowing the windows out of the house.


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## Louis

Chitmo said:


> Agreed, sounds to me like you need to get a good attenuator. I have a Rivera Rock Crusher. You can get volumes down to the point where you can hear yourself picking over the amp but still get the intended tone. I use to to tame my Antidote, without having a master volume it's the only way I can get the sound that I want without blowing the windows out of the house.



This is amp is supposed to deliver warmth and smoothness 
at low volume so let see what Georges says !


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## Budda

I'm curious to see how things develop.


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## isoneedacoffee

Budda said:


> I'm curious to see how things develop.


Me too! It sounds like George is a standup guy.


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## Adcandour

ed2000 said:


> Somehow Adcan's amps never seem to collect much dust before they're up for sale again!
> 
> Buy yourself, for less than a hunnert bucks, a Vox Pathfinder 15r. Yah, I know I'm not being helpful!


There was a time where I was satisfied with what I had - Divided by 13 amps. I had them for years (most of my adult guitaring life). I a/b'd them with everything and they always sounded better to me. 

Now, I'm looking for something pretty specific and I know very quickly whether I'll keep an amp or not. I try loads of amps in person, but there are certain ones you can't try unless you buy them. To hang on to them would bankrupt me, so they have to move. I'm at a point in my life where I refuse to have something mediocre around (to me).


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## GWN!

adcandour said:


> I'm at a point in my life where I refuse to have something mediocre around (to me).


That is pretty strong wording. That would imply that the Lazy J and Divided by 13 and other top flight amps you have had were mediocre amps? Are you gigging with those amps of just noodling at home?


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## Adcandour

GWN! said:


> That is pretty strong wording. That would imply that the Lazy J and Divided by 13 and other top flight amps you have had were mediocre amps? Are you gigging with those amps of just noodling at home?


I totally see how you could have taken it that way, but I was more refering to the vox recommendation. I find amps in the $100 to $800 range don't do it for me (although I currently own 3)

The other amps you mentioned would be essentially settling, since I know exactly what I want now. They're great amps as I've stated before (essentially superceding any implication), just not for me.


----------



## Stratin2traynor

What exactly are you looking for?


----------



## GWN!

adcandour said:


> I totally see how you could have taken it that way, but I was more refering to the vox recommendation. I find amps in the $100 to $800 range don't do it for me (although I currently own 3)
> 
> The other amps you mentioned would be essentially settling, since I know exactly what I want now. They're great amps as I've stated before (essentially superceding any implication), just not for me.



Ok that makes more sense. B.t.w. Buy something nice for your wife. My wife has always been pretty comprehensive of my hobby addictions (audio, cycling, photography) and let me buy what I wanted. But she would at her wits end if I went thru amps like you do.
:smiley-faces-75:


----------



## Adcandour

Stratin2traynor said:


> What exactly are you looking for?


The EXACT sound coming out of the 1977 Marshall jmp 50 with Friedman mods I just traded.

I just need it to have an effects loop. I can't play without proper delay and reverb


----------



## Adcandour

GWN! said:


> Ok that makes more sense. B.t.w. Buy something nice for your wife. My wife has always been pretty comprehensive of my hobby addictions (audio, cycling, photography) and let me buy what I wanted. But she would at her wits end if I went thru amps like you do.
> :smiley-faces-75:


Believe me, I try. Have you ever heard of a woman refusing a vacation? All she wants is to do stuff to her face, cause she's self conscious for some reason. 

Fillers and botox? I just can't. She perfect, imo. Gratuitous wife shot:


----------



## davetcan

She's beautiful, but your amp still sucks, LOL.

I actually liked the clip btw, horses for courses and all that.



adcandour said:


> Believe me, I try. Have you ever heard of a woman refusing a vacation? All she wants is to do stuff to her face, cause she's self conscious for some reason.
> 
> Fillers and botox? I just can't. She perfect, imo. Gratuitous wife shot:
> 
> View attachment 14350


----------



## keto

Jaysus, she's a freaking model...why are so many women so self conscious?

She looks an awful lot like my first g/f, who was a cheerleader. I always did punch above my weight


----------



## bluzfish

Gives hope for all the rest of us ugly, ill mannered bastards.


----------



## Adcandour

davetcan said:


> She's beautiful, but your amp still sucks, LOL.
> 
> I actually liked the clip btw, horses for courses and all that.


Ha, nice.

Yeah, it's a fine sound in the clip, but one that can come from a decent a fuzz pedal. The clip really doesn't do my point justice. I can probably find a better clip on youtube, but at this point, I know that there's something inherently wrong with the amp, so it needs to get fixed (otherwise it will be a one trick pony).


----------



## Budda

If only you could have adapted to delay and reverb out front, all this could have been avoided


----------



## davetcan

That's a valid point. I'm a guy who has always, or almost always, got my dirt from pedals. I need a big warm clean tone to start with and I work everything from there. The only 2 channel amp that I've owned and loved both channels on is my Memphis.

I think for me to get a better understanding of "fizz" I'd need to hear one with and one without, and I'd probably need to be in the room, if not playing it myself 





adcandour said:


> Ha, nice.
> 
> Yeah, it's a fine sound in the clip, but one that can come from a decent a fuzz pedal. The clip really doesn't do my point justice. I can probably find a better clip on youtube, but at this point, I know that there's something inherently wrong with the amp, so it needs to get fixed (otherwise it will be a one trick pony).


- - - Updated - - -

I can forgive him that, I can't stand it there either, LOL.



Budda said:


> If only you could have adapted to delay and reverb out front, all this could have been avoided


----------



## Louis

adcandour said:


> Ha, nice.
> 
> Yeah, it's a fine sound in the clip, but one that can come from a decent a fuzz pedal. The clip really doesn't do my point justice. I can probably find a better clip on youtube, but at this point, I know that there's something inherently wrong with the amp, so it needs to get fixed (otherwise it will be a one trick pony).


Lance should try all amps before shipping 
but don't know the percentage of application 
he has with DAG !


----------



## Adcandour

Budda said:


> If only you could have adapted to delay and reverb out front, all this could have been avoided


Believe me when I tell you I tried. I've listened to your tunes - I can't understand how you do it, and I think you're shittin' me.:sSig_busted:


----------



## Budda

Its how everything has been done before I joined so I just set up my chain to match.

I have the 5150's loop for when I want a huuuge solo boost and pristine repeats.


----------



## Adcandour

Budda said:


> Its how everything has been done before I joined so I just set up my chain to match.
> 
> I have the 5150's loop for when I want a huuuge solo boost and pristine repeats.


Do you ever do lead stuff on stage with the delay out front? I swear, trying to get it to work for me was like writing with my left hand.


----------



## numb41

adcandour said:


> The EXACT sound coming out of the 1977 Marshall jmp 50 with Friedman mods I just traded.
> 
> I just need it to have an effects loop. I can't play without proper delay and reverb


BUT, you got a cool Bassman in trade! Yeah, this Marshall is pretty darned cool. Sorry to rub it in..!


----------



## Adcandour

numb41 said:


> BUT, you got a cool Bassman in trade! Yeah, this Marshall is pretty darned cool. Sorry to rub it in..!


... a very nice amp for sure. It's strange to me how well it handles pedals seeing that it's much older than the Marshall. I'm keeping my eye out for an attenuator too.


----------



## grumpyoldman

Budda said:


> If only you could have adapted to delay and reverb out front, all this could have been avoided


I rarely, if ever, comment on threads like this, but, in my opinion, reverb should NEVER be in front of an amp. That is all.

Carry on.

John
thegrumpyoldman


----------



## Louis

grumpyoldman said:


> I rarely, if ever, comment on threads like this, but, in my opinion, reverb should NEVER be in front of an amp. That is all.
> 
> Carry on.
> 
> John
> thegrumpyoldman


Agreed for pedals but for some reason,
my old PCM60 Lexicon worked perfectly !


----------



## Disbeat

Those Blonde Bassmans take pedals as well or better then any amp I've ever played. 



adcandour said:


> ... a very nice amp for sure. It's strange to me how well it handles pedals seeing that it's much older than the Marshall. I'm keeping my eye out for an attenuator too.


- - - Updated - - -

On another note, you should just grow a pair and buy a Wizard. Best modern era Marshall build you can buy. Crushes Friedmans and all the others I've played/owned. 
I think Northern1 may have one for sale too, great guy to deal with as well.


----------



## bluzfish

Disbeat said:


> On another note, you should just grow a pair and buy a Wizard. Best modern era Marshall build you can buy. Crushes Friedmans and all the others I've played/owned.
> I think Northern1 may have one for sale too, great guy to deal with as well.


You just put a big rock of crack in front of a recovering addict.


----------



## Adcandour

Disbeat said:


> On another note, you should just grow a pair and buy a Wizard. Best modern era Marshall build you can buy. Crushes Friedmans and all the others I've played/owned.
> I think Northern1 may have one for sale too, great guy to deal with as well.


I just don't have an opportunity to play one though... I just can't buy any more. 

I'm convinced that older marshalls have what I'm looking for. I just saw a Marshall 1968 Superbass with Friedman mods on TGP. He won't ship to canada and my parents don't want to lift another amp for a while. It looks like it's got enough space for a metro effects loop, so I know these amps come up now and again.

I am going to PM george again and see what he proposes. If the metropolous issue gets resolved and it can really do the vintage thing well, I'm finished. I've realized that for bonecrushing metal, my megalith distortion is all I need. These two things should get me there.

- - - Updated - - -



bluzfish said:


> You just put a big rock of crack in front of a recovering addict.


I'm getting better. If he were to bring that crack to my door, or should I stumble upon it at some shop, it'll be a different story.


----------



## Disbeat

I've played a couple Wizards and they just plain kill all the others. If I could afford another it would be the one to have for me. For now I gotta settle with my 76 JMP 2203.
Chuck, just look up Scott Ian playing Angus Youngs Wizard on YouTube, look at his face and listen to that thing.



bluzfish said:


> You just put a big rock of crack in front of a recovering addict.


----------



## King Loudness

Looks like a beautiful amp. I hope you can sort it out; hopefully George can help assist you in your quest! FWIW, I'm considering having a loop put in my '84 JCM800 because I just can't bear to have delay out front.

W.


----------



## Budda

adcandour said:


> Do you ever do lead stuff on stage with the delay out front? I swear, trying to get it to work for me was like writing with my left hand.


90% of my lead stuff has delay haha. 

If I can get a decent mic setup i'll try and make a clip today. The fiancee works all day so I might as well. 

Also reverb sounds just fine out front. Im sure some amps have it before the preamp as well.

- - - Updated - - -



King Loudness said:


> Looks like a beautiful amp. I hope you can sort it out; hopefully George can help assist you in your quest! FWIW, I'm considering having a loop put in my '84 JCM800 because I just can't bear to have delay out front.
> 
> W.


Maybe try the reissue with loop first?


----------



## Chitmo

Disbeat said:


> I've played a couple Wizards and they just plain kill all the others. If I could afford another it would be the one to have for me. For now I gotta settle with my 76 JMP 2203.
> Chuck, just look up Scott Ian playing Angus Youngs Wizard on YouTube, look at his face and listen to that thing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtWrArkvrsA


----------



## King Loudness

Budda said:


> 90% of my lead stuff has delay haha.
> 
> If I can get a decent mic setup i'll try and make a clip today. The fiancee works all day so I might as well.
> 
> Also reverb sounds just fine out front. Im sure some amps have it before the preamp as well.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe try the reissue with loop first?


That'd be fine, except they don't make the 2x12 combo in a reissue. My amp is so bastardized anyway, so a loop won't affect anything, value wise.

W.


----------



## Disbeat

Is yours a 2203 or 2204?



King Loudness said:


> That'd be fine, except they don't make the 2x12 combo in a reissue. My amp is so bastardized anyway, so a loop won't affect anything, value wise.
> 
> W.


----------



## King Loudness

Disbeat said:


> Is yours a 2203 or 2204?


Hey man! Long time, no talk. How's things? My amp is a CSA 4104, which is basically a 50w 2204 in 2x12 combo form. It was a restoration project for me; time was not kind to the amp. Given that I just had it restored already, adding a loop is no problem. There are even plugged holes in the back of the chassis from extra fuse mounts that some former owner added along the way, so drilling isn't an issue.

W.


----------



## Louis

Any news of Georges Yet !!!

This issue should be addressed fast !


----------



## Adcandour

Louis said:


> Any news of Georges Yet !!!
> 
> This issue should be addressed fast !


He's been awesome - when he didn't hear from me, he followed up to make sure my issue was addressed. We're trouble shooting with clips back and forth, but I'm starting to think that the amp was voiced this way purposely. It's actually the way a late 60s Superlead should sound. George calls it a "raspy edge to the notes". 

The more I listen to classic rock, it's starting to stand out to me. I've been working the new The Darkness album, and I can even hear the fizzy notes to some of their lead stuff. I guess I couldn't hear it in the Lance video and JD Simo never really plays any chords, so there was no opportunity to hear it there.

It turns out that I simply might not be into late 60s superleads.

Nevertheless, George said he'll do whatever it takes to turn that amp into exactly what I want it to be. Seriously..., what customer service.


----------



## Louis

adcandour said:


> He's been awesome - when he didn't hear from me, he followed up to make sure my issue was addressed. We're trouble shooting with clips back and forth, but I'm starting to think that the amp was voiced this way purposely. It's actually the way a late 60s Superlead should sound. George calls it a "raspy edge to the notes".
> 
> The more I listen to classic rock, it's starting to stand out to me. I've been working the new The Darkness album, and I can even hear the fizzy notes to some of their lead stuff. I guess I couldn't hear it in the Lance video and JD Simo never really plays any chords, so there was no opportunity to hear it there.
> 
> It turns out that I simply might not be into late 60s superleads.
> 
> Nevertheless, George said he'll do whatever it takes to turn that amp into exactly what I want it to be. Seriously..., what customer service.



Nice to hear !!
I know he had a Friedman-Metro amp a few years ago so I guess
he could sparkle that little throaty BE magic in there that I think you enjoyed
on your previous amp .

Did he offered You to return the amp ?

I know a tech in Montreal who bought and reversed engineered a BE-100
so let me know if it could help !

What part of Canada are You from ?

Louis


----------



## Louis

This is the answer I got from Georges about your amp,

What a Gentleman !!!!

Thanks Louis, we have communicated and I will make sure Chuck is happy with his Metro-Plex. And, if it ultimately is not the right amp for him, he can return it.

Thanks!

george


----------



## Budda

With the money spent, i'd assume the builder can mod to taste.


----------



## Adcandour

Louis said:


> This is the answer I got from Georges about your amp,
> 
> What a Gentleman !!!!
> 
> Thanks Louis, we have communicated and I will make sure Chuck is happy with his Metro-Plex. And, if it ultimately is not the right amp for him, he can return it.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> george


Thanks Louis, I appreciate the help, but I have been communicating with him without issue. I'm not sure what kind of message it sends to him though. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## Louis

BTW Chuck !!......always wanted to ask !

Is this a picture of You on the Avatar or a Madman freshly out of Jail ??


----------



## Adcandour

Louis said:


> Nice to hear !!
> I know he had a Friedman-Metro amp a few years ago so I guess
> he could sparkle that little throaty BE magic in there that I think you enjoyed
> on your previous amp .
> 
> Did he offered You to return the amp ?
> 
> I know a tech in Montreal who bought and reversed engineered a BE-100
> so let me know if it could help !
> 
> What part of Canada are You from ?
> 
> Louis


I'm about 40 mins north of toronto. 

We're just trying to get to the bottom of things at the moment. not sure what the outcome will be just yet.

- - - Updated - - -



Louis said:


> BTW Chuck !!......always wanted to ask !
> 
> Is this a picture of You on the Avatar or a Madman freshly out of Jail ??


That's one guitarist from radiohead. I just thought it was a weird picture from one of my favourite bands. It's my way of disappointing people when they finally meet me in person


----------



## Louis

adcandour said:


> I'm about 40 mins north of toronto.
> 
> We're just trying to get to the bottom of things at the moment. not sure what the outcome will be just yet.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> That's one guitarist from radiohead. I just thought it was a weird picture from one of my favourite bands. It's my way of disappointing people when they finally meet me in person


Haha !!!
[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qf6Sv3A9zs[/video]


----------



## keto

I always thought it was Paul Weller


----------



## Louis

If the Metroplex doesn't work for you,
you might consider Ted Stevenson from Montreal ,
his Event Horizon is very chewy !
Here's a clip 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NhiWaGfbpco


----------



## isoneedacoffee

adcandour said:


> Ha, nice.
> 
> Yeah, it's a fine sound in the clip, but one that can come from a decent a fuzz pedal. The clip really doesn't do my point justice. I can probably find a better clip on youtube, but at this point, I know that there's something inherently wrong with the amp, so it needs to get fixed (otherwise it will be a one trick pony).





adcandour said:


> I'm starting to think that the amp was voiced this way purposely. It's actually the way a late 60s Superlead should sound. George calls it a "raspy edge to the notes".
> 
> The more I listen to classic rock, it's starting to stand out to me. I've been working the new The Darkness album, and I can even hear the fizzy notes to some of their lead stuff. I guess I couldn't hear it in the Lance video and JD Simo never really plays any chords, so there was no opportunity to hear it there.
> 
> It turns out that I simply might not be into late 60s superleads.


It's interesting that you mention this. I'm not exactly in your shoes - my shoes are certainly more "low budget" - but this past year I have tried a couple of Marshall in a Box pedals and came to the same conclusion with regard to the Catalinbread Dirty Little Secret III when compared with the SL Drive. I compared them for 6 months (seriously) and the DLS always seemed to have some gated fuzziness to it, regardless of whether it was running 9 or 18v. I did love the sound, and it it certainly reminded me of some classic bands, but like you I would rather get fuzz from a pedal. In comparison, the SL Drive was smoother but still had the raw, throaty, roar of what I associate with the Marshall sound. In the end, I think there is no "proper" or "real" Marshall sound as it has to do with the amp model, the year of production, cab/speakers, etc. But it's interesting to compare them and see what floats your boat. It seems like you've more or less got it figured out. 

As others have suggested, if I were you, I'd get the base sound you crave from the amp first and concentrate on finding a delay that will work well in front (lots of good options). Have the delay adapt to the amp, not the other way around. I guess the one caveat here would be if you play shoegazer stuff and use lots of delay/reverb almost all the time. But if that's the case, just get an amp that has a solid clean tone, no?

Good luck with the quest!


----------



## Louis

This thread suddenly went dead !!

Any fresh news for us followers ??


----------



## Adcandour

Louis said:


> This thread suddenly went dead !!
> 
> Any fresh news for us followers ??


Nothing yet. I'll keep you posted


----------



## Adcandour

Update:

The amp has been shipped back to Metroamp. He'll be adding knobs or switches to get me where I'd like to be. He'll be sending clips back to me to review.

We've been going back and forth for a bit. Honestly, this guy is fantastic. He's so dedicated to making this right for me - even though I told him nothing is wrong with the amp. I told him Lance's video is misleading, and that's the problem - not tone-wise, but by his poor word choice. 

I will post some of the clips he sends me for feedback.


----------



## davetcan

Good stuff. Great to hear there are still manufacturers who are 100% customer focused.


----------



## Louis

Great !..........Thanks !


----------



## Adcandour

I got the amp back a few days ago. By turning the internal trimpot marked 'high' right down, and putting the low at 50%, the difference is night and day.

It is a beautiful sounding amp with the ability to nail a bunch of classic rock tones. It's hard to explain the nature of the distortion. The best I can say is that it's very rich. It has a very different harmonic quality. If I hit an open chord chord, there's the chord, and then there's these harmonic overtones that seem to float over it. I couldn't hear it over the buzzing quality I didn't like previously.

I still find that it brings out my faults when doing any lead stuff - it's not forgiving at all. It's funny, the guitarist form the Darkness mentioned that changing to the 68 Superlead has made him a much better player. Sadly, I'm not that ambitious, so I'll be moving this. 

Fantastic amp, but after owning that vintage friedman-marshall, I know I need something like a JTM (for the throaty growl)-with a browneye level of gain. I have sent an email to George requesting a build of this nature and will likely hear back after the weekend. I hope he's willing. If not, I'm thinking vintage JTM that has already been butchered, so I don't have to be the one to do it.

It was a hard email to write to him. I'm pretty honest, and to tell someone that there amp isn't doing it for me after they've been so kind, generous with their time, and easy-going made me feel terrible. 

I completely understand why people have fallen in love with this amp. I totally get it, but I'm not collecting amps anymore, so it doesn't make sense for me to keep it.


----------



## davetcan

It either works for you or it doesn't, at the end of the day you're doing the right thing. Good luck on the continuing search.

Do you like this?

[video=youtube;v8E86eJvL3s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8E86eJvL3s[/video]


----------



## Adcandour

davetcan said:


> It either works for you or it doesn't, at the end of the day you're doing the right thing. Good luck on the continuing search.
> 
> Do you like this?
> 
> [video=youtube;v8E86eJvL3s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8E86eJvL3s[/video]


That actually sounds really good. The higher gain setting is a bit fuzzy - like the friedman HBE mod (which I didn't care for)

I have figured out what I want. I thought that the Metroplex would do all MArshall tones, because of what was said in the demo (but it doesn't get true JTM throatiness). I really just like the ACDC sound, but with the friedman BE mod to kick the gain to where I like it. The MI delta is my go-to for high gain.

I'll keep you posted. I'm just about to go and do a quick recording of the MP. I'm loving the sound of the chords ringing.


----------



## Budda

Why not get a ceriatone?

Also selling this amp because it shows your mistakes doesnt make sense to me, but its your money and time.


----------



## Adcandour

Budda said:


> Why not get a ceriatone?
> 
> Also selling this amp because it shows your mistakes doesnt make sense to me, but its your money and time.


I think I'm done buying without trying - and I doubt I'll have an opportunity to try a ceriatone. Youtube doesn't help. I don't trust it at all anymore.

The amp is very hard to play. What I could make sound good simply doesn't sound good anymore. It's a characteristic within the amp, and I can't put my finger on it exactly. One way to explain it is that it's a 'punchy'quality. It's a similar 'punch' to the bassman cleans. It just doesn't work with my fingers.

You have to play very cleanly - and I'm a sloppy player with no intent of changing old habits. I'm also finding that I'm unable to get the higher strings to come through clearly in a chord progression. It's a very unappealing quality to me.

In essence there is too many things that I don't mesh with, although I appreciate everything this amp is successfully accomplishing.

I believe that people who are into fuzzes would love this amp (which is the majority of players, I'm sure). I hate fuzz, just sold my last one, and will never buy another.


----------



## keto

So confusing reading your stuff and trying to figure out what you'd like. That said, I'm pretty sure it was me put you onto the Megalith Delta.

I think you want more compression, which is sorta the opposite of being very direct & fast. But usually direct and fast also lets the high end come thru nicely on chords, which this isn't so that's confusing. Also, compression GENERALIZING is a little fuzzy around the edges, though sometimes it's just smoooooth, and will be influenced by your attack, the rest of your rig expecially speakers/cabinet, and so forth.

What cabinet & speakers are you using?

What was it you did like again? I've lost track.


----------



## Adcandour

keto said:


> So confusing reading your stuff and trying to figure out what you'd like. That said, I'm pretty sure it was me put you onto the Megalith Delta.
> 
> I think you want more compression, which is sorta the opposite of being very direct & fast. But usually direct and fast also lets the high end come thru nicely on chords, which this isn't so that's confusing. Also, compression GENERALIZING is a little fuzzy around the edges, though sometimes it's just smoooooth, and will be influenced by your attack, the rest of your rig expecially speakers/cabinet, and so forth.
> 
> What cabinet & speakers are you using?
> 
> What was it you did like again? I've lost track.


If it was you re Delta, thanks. That has and always will be a staple on the shrinking pedalboard.

My speakers are, and I quote (you), "I bet that would sound great with a 2x12 with [email protected] V30 and [email protected] G12H30. I used to have such a cab and wish I still did.".

Who knew you influenced my tone that much...

I realize it _seems_ I'm all over the map, but what I want now is actually very simple:

The amp I sold member Numb41 - a friedman-modded vintage Marshall JMP 50 watt.

The only reason I didn't keep that amp is there was no space for an effects loop and 80s metal sounded bad through it due to the delay up front. I need a channel similar to the BE from friedman, since I prefer higher gain classic rock.

If you check out the solo in this video at about 4:20, you'll hear that fuzzy compressed sound the MP has (typical to a 68 Superlead - I know this now), but I don't prefer (I actually don't like it at all). The JMP had a more 'woody' and 'open' quality. It turns out that essentially what I'm looking for is the AC/DC throaty rock tone, but with a higher gain (typically found in a BE friedman mod). *For the record, describing tone really sucks and I wish someone would create a tone bible (with sound clips) to make things easier.*

Anyhow, I'm no longer on a tone hunt - that is it. That's exactly what I want - and I know I can get it, cause that Marshall had it.

The one thing that complicates things is that I'm not sure if an amps "feel" is outside this tone. The Marshall I had also had a 'feel' to it.

What makes me nervous is that numb41 (Jim) just did a shootout this last weekend with a bunch of marshalls, and apparently the Marshall sounded better than all of them by a big margin. I really hope that one didn't have the kavorka (like the previous owner told me).

[video=youtube;FGUMbTH1YWA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGUMbTH1YWA[/video]


----------



## keto

I never thought of it until now, but many attenuators these days have a loop and should be between the amp (so, after the power section) and the speakers....might have worked with the old Marshall *oops*.

Also, the V30/G12H30 combination is a little more modern and modern sounding (whatever that means) than, say, some greenbacks just as 1 illustration. The V30 *will* (not might, will!) be adding a bit of grind to the sound, which might be interpreted as fuzz *dunno*


----------



## Adcandour

keto said:


> I never thought of it until now, but many attenuators these days have a loop and should be between the amp (so, after the power section) and the speakers....might have worked with the old Marshall *oops*.


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!


----------



## Budda

Ceriatone is a copy of whatever amp they say they're using for the schematic. So if you've heard a JCM800, their JCM800 kit is going to sound like that. Same with the Hiwatt's, etcetera. There's no guessing so long as you know what amp you want.

It seems far more foolproof to me then all these super expensive boutique options, but then again I'm coming from a place of tone + affordability whereas I think you have far less restrictions hahahaha.

I just hope you find the right one, for good, soon! For your sake!


----------



## Adcandour

Budda said:


> Ceriatone is a copy of whatever amp they say they're using for the schematic. So if you've heard a JCM800, their JCM800 kit is going to sound like that. Same with the Hiwatt's, etcetera. There's no guessing so long as you know what amp you want.
> 
> It seems far more foolproof to me then all these super expensive boutique options, but then again I'm coming from a place of tone + affordability whereas I think you have far less restrictions hahahaha.
> 
> I just hope you find the right one, for good, soon! For your sake!



Thanks. I will, but it's not too difficult to cope, since I have that 63 Bassman keeping me happy . That, with the keeley BD-2 is extremely marshally.

I was always under the impression that when builders use "NOS" parts, the end result is better. Is that a myth? 

I do have some buying power, but it's currently locked up in the MP, the Bassman and my Larrivee RS-2. All that adds up to the coin I can afford for the next amp, since the guitars have been taken care of for quite some time now. On top of that, my wife did some weird shit to her face that allows me to top up my amp purchase if need be without feeling guilty (don't ask).


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## Guest

Would you'd like to test drive a Rivera Fandango 212 55w?
Too much amp for me.

[video=youtube;jPu7-vxu77s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPu7-vxu77s[/video]


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## Adcandour

laristotle said:


> Would you'd like to test drive a Rivera Fandango 212 55w?
> Too much amp for me.


Honestly, I think that thing is too much amp for anyone...

Thanks for the offer (and I would've taken you up on it), but John (the grumpy old man) beat you to it. He kindly dropped a fandango off at my house just over a week ago. Holy cow - some great tones to be had, but man there's a lot going on. I'm definitely going a simpler route.


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## Guest

adcandour said:


> Honestly, I think that thing is too much amp for anyone...
> .. I'm definitely going a simpler route.



I jammed with it once. However, I spent around 3 hours the day before just tweaking all 
the knobs to find the tones I was going to use (you can't do those kind of adjustments
while playing). What the vid doesn't really show is the changes you hear by turning any
knob just a c-hair. If I were ever to hit a studio, just this and one guitar would be sufficient.

There may be a WTT ad soon.


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## davetcan

Sounds like John's been holding out on me, I didn't know he had a fandango laying around. Not that I need another amp now. I did own a 2 x 12 a few years ago and it was great but heavy and it did take some dialing in.


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## Stratin2traynor

Wow, and I thought my Boogie Express was tweakable. Does "Fandango" mean "crazy amount of tweakability"?. WTF


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## Adcandour

Yeah, it's crazy. And with virtually every knob being push-pull to boot. 

The one John lent me is a 1x12. Moving the 2x12 around would be pretty rough.


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## pickslide

Sounds like a dirty shirley might be up your alley...but I have not played one myself. Good luck with your search. I think mine is finally over but man it took a long time lol


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## Adcandour

pickslide said:


> Sounds like a dirty shirley might be up your alley...but I have not played one myself. Good luck with your search. I think mine is finally over but man it took a long time lol


I've been meaning to try one out at The Guitar Shop. 

What ended your search?


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## Budda

adcandour said:


> Thanks. I will, but it's not too difficult to cope, since I have that 63 Bassman keeping me happy . That, with the keeley BD-2 is extremely marshally.
> 
> I was always under the impression that when builders use "NOS" parts, the end result is better. Is that a myth?
> 
> I do have some buying power, but it's currently locked up in the MP, the Bassman and my Larrivee RS-2. All that adds up to the coin I can afford for the next amp, since the guitars have been taken care of for quite some time now. On top of that, my wife did some weird shit to her face that allows me to top up my amp purchase if need be without feeling guilty (don't ask).


Why not just run the fender and skip the second amp then? Lord knows there's enough boutique pedals that you can find "that" tone and get 5 pedals at once to run shoot-outs.


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## grumpyoldman

Read this, and imagine HAL (Douglas Rain) saying this...

"I'm sorry Dave, I didn't know that..." 

Chuck - I can try to swing by at some point this month if you are either a) 'done' with the Fandango, or b) have the 'amp of your dreams' soon. If you want to hold onto, and continue exploring, the amp until later, no problem whatsoever. 

John
thegrumpyoldman



davetcan said:


> Sounds like John's been holding out on me, I didn't know he had a fandango laying around. Not that I need another amp now. I did own a 2 x 12 a few years ago and it was great but heavy and it did take some dialing in.


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## Adcandour

grumpyoldman said:


> Read this, and imagine HAL (Douglas Rain) saying this...
> 
> "I'm sorry Dave, I didn't know that..."
> 
> Chuck - I can try to swing by at some point this month if you are either a) 'done' with the Fandango, or b) have the 'amp of your dreams' soon. If you want to hold onto, and continue exploring, the amp until later, no problem whatsoever.
> 
> John
> thegrumpyoldman


Hey John, you can grab it whenever is most convenient. I still plug into it, but I have other amps to play too. Just let me know when you're coming through. Thanks.


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## davetcan

LOL, I'm sure we've both got lots of stuff we haven't talked about 














grumpyoldman said:


> Read this, and imagine HAL (Douglas Rain) saying this...
> 
> "I'm sorry Dave, I didn't know that..."
> 
> 
> 
> John
> thegrumpyoldman


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## jb welder

keto said:


> I never thought of it until now, but many attenuators these days have a loop and should be between the amp (so, after the power section) and the speakers....might have worked with the old Marshall *oops*.


I think you're off the hook here (for the *oops*) as you would need a separate power amp to re-amp the effected signal. But if I'm wrong, please post an example of such an attenuator.
The type I'm aware of has a built in S.S. power amp, so in the case of the Marshall, you would have the Marshall power amp driving a "dry" cab, and the SS power amp driving a "wet" cab. (or use 2 sides of a stereo cab)
Other types without a built in power amp would still require a second power amp for the wet signal as far as I know.
I'm not sure if such a rig would have satisfied adcandour's requirements as far as that Marshall was concerned.
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/ho-attenuator-with-dual-level-and-fx-loop.417781/


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## keto

http://www.fryette.com/power-station-integrated-reactance-amplifier/ Look at the back panel


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## Disbeat

Pretty sure the Bad Cat Unleash could have done the trick too



keto said:


> http://www.fryette.com/power-station-integrated-reactance-amplifier/ Look at the back panel


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## davetcan

That does look awesome!



keto said:


> http://www.fryette.com/power-station-integrated-reactance-amplifier/ Look at the back panel


- - - Updated - - -

So does that 

I see both are unavailable right now though.



Disbeat said:


> Pretty sure the Bad Cat Unleash could have done the trick too


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## bcmatt

adcandour said:


> I still find that it brings out my faults when doing any lead stuff - it's not forgiving at all. It's funny, the guitarist form the Darkness mentioned that changing to the 68 Superlead has made him a much better player. Sadly, I'm not that ambitious, so I'll be moving this.


I am by no means a "Great" guitar player, and would never refer to myself as a "good" guitar player, but that guy is on to something when he says it "made" him a better player. I absolutely LOVE fast response type amps. (There's an article about these somewhere and it sort of lists them, AC30s, Plexis, Trainwrecks, etc.) I primarily play trainwreck clones and they are all about the touch sensitivity and fast response. You immediately "feel" everything your fingers are doing coming right out of your speaker, and it doesn't take long for it to be the most addictive and satisfying feeling in the world.
Anyways, my point is that when these guys in interviews talk about these amps "making them better players" they mean exactly that. It didn't take hard work and ambition on their part. They just had to play it for a while and their fingers starting playing more and more precise because they could get so many very specific sounds out of these amps depending on how intricately they play. It's not like you need to totally change the way you play after all these years, it's just that the amp will change the way you play. After a while, more forgiving amps are just not as much fun because they seem more like a less accurate copy of what you are trying to play. They can still sound good, but your body doesn't get the same satisfaction. I hope this doesn't sound like more tone-description type nonsense, but I just wanted to say that if you want to give that fast amp more of a chance, it will do all the work to make you a better player and it won't take as long as you might think. These rock-stars are just fooling you into thinking they were working really hard to get better... and I don't think that's what they are trying to say.

PS I use my BC Unleash a lot to add an effects loop to my amps and it is a life-saver.


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## jb welder

keto said:


> http://www.fryette.com/power-station-integrated-reactance-amplifier/ Look at the back panel





Disbeat said:


> Pretty sure the Bad Cat Unleash could have done the trick too


Sorry if I'm nitpicking, but these are both re-amplifiers with built in attenuators. I think it's a bit misleading to market them as attenuators, but that's just me.
At least when you want to use the effects loop, with both these examples, you are no longer driving the speaker with the marshall power amp. You are driving the speaker with the power amp that is built into the attenuator.
I could be wrong, but I don't think that was quite what the OP wanted.


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## davetcan

I agree that it seems to work that way but if the following is true what difference does it make? I have no idea btw, just asking 

1) An attenuator for controlling the volume of high powered amplifiers with none of the drawbacks of a conventional attenuator.
• Perfectly preserves the tone of the attenuated amplifier _*at any volume setting*_ down to whisper level.
• Preserves the dynamic feel and speaker response at any volume.
• Allows you to extend the voicing of any amplifier - a vintage amp can sound more modern, a modern amp more vintage, a dull sounding amp more alive, and a "spongy" amp can sound tighter, etc.
• Provides a post distortion effects loop for any amp whether or not it already has one.
• Provides an unbalanced line out for any amp whether or not it already has one.
• Completely safe for any amplifier.
• Choose 4, 8 and 16 ohms separately for both the amplifier and cabinet matching. No more nerve-wracking impedance mis-matching that could damage your amplifier.



jb welder said:


> Sorry if I'm nitpicking, but these are both re-amplifiers with built in attenuators. I think it's a bit misleading to market them as attenuators, but that's just me.
> At least when you want to use the effects loop, with both these examples, you are no longer driving the speaker with the marshall power amp. You are driving the speaker with the power amp that is built into the attenuator.
> I could be wrong, but I don't think that was quite what the OP wanted.


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## Stratin2traynor

I think the Bad Cat Unleash or tricked out Ho Attenuators are the ticket. I have 2 Ho Attenuators (reamplifiers) and they are awesome. Neither has an effects loop but I'm considering bringing one into Ho and having one added. The attenuators work great and sound exactly like the amp cranked but at a reduced volume.

It looks like Bad Cat took his idea and ran with it.


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## bcmatt

Stratin2traynor said:


> I think the Bad Cat Unleash or tricked out Ho Attenuators are the ticket. I have 2 Ho Attenuators (reamplifiers) and they are awesome. Neither has an effects loop but I'm considering bringing one into Ho and having one added. The attenuators work great and sound exactly like the amp cranked but at a reduced volume.
> 
> It looks like Bad Cat took his idea and ran with it.


I think that is true, but he claimed to not know about anyone else doing it. I'm not sure about the Ho, but for the Bad Cat and the Fryette the load is a reactive and not resistive. This means that the amplifier responds to the load exactly like it would to a speaker rather than just a straight consistent resister provides. This plays out in the tone and the feel to be much more realistic sounding and feeling. Again, the Fryette Power Station is the next step that makes that re-amping from being Solid State (like the Bad Cat) and turning it into tube power too. Somehow it is done even at low volumes without sounding choked out. It works in this setting...


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## Adcandour

bcmatt said:


> I am by no means a "Great" guitar player, and would never refer to myself as a "good" guitar player, but that guy is on to something when he says it "made" him a better player. I absolutely LOVE fast response type amps. (There's an article about these somewhere and it sort of lists them, AC30s, Plexis, Trainwrecks, etc.) I primarily play trainwreck clones and they are all about the touch sensitivity and fast response. You immediately "feel" everything your fingers are doing coming right out of your speaker, and it doesn't take long for it to be the most addictive and satisfying feeling in the world.
> Anyways, my point is that when these guys in interviews talk about these amps "making them better players" they mean exactly that. It didn't take hard work and ambition on their part. They just had to play it for a while and their fingers starting playing more and more precise because they could get so many very specific sounds out of these amps depending on how intricately they play. It's not like you need to totally change the way you play after all these years, it's just that the amp will change the way you play. After a while, more forgiving amps are just not as much fun because they seem more like a less accurate copy of what you are trying to play. They can still sound good, but your body doesn't get the same satisfaction. I hope this doesn't sound like more tone-description type nonsense, but I just wanted to say that if you want to give that fast amp more of a chance, it will do all the work to make you a better player and it won't take as long as you might think. These rock-stars are just fooling you into thinking they were working really hard to get better... and I don't think that's what they are trying to say.
> 
> PS I use my BC Unleash a lot to add an effects loop to my amps and it is a life-saver.


I'm not sure I agree on all points. I don't think I can coax any good expression out of a single note on this amp. If you also listen to Mighty Wings by The Darkness, he doesn't either. The notes in the solo are compressed (I hate using that word, because I think I use it incorrectly). The notes themselves aren't that expressive, but the solos themselves are the message.

If I hit one single note on my guitar I can't make it do what the bassman does, or the JMP did. I really don't think that would ever change no matter what picking dynamics I choose to do. They are simply have a more vocal quality.

So, I agree that the end up playing more precise, but I don't think for the purpose of getting many sounds. I think they get more precise, so they don't sound sloppy. The reason they work at it is because they prefer the raw grindy edge of the superlead.


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## High/Deaf

jb welder said:


> Sorry if I'm nitpicking, but these are both re-amplifiers with built in attenuators. I think it's a bit misleading to market them as attenuators, but that's just me.
> At least when you want to use the effects loop, *with both these examples, you are no longer driving the speaker with the marshall power amp.* You are driving the speaker with the power amp that is built into the attenuator.
> I could be wrong, but I don't think that was quite what the OP wanted.


You are no longer driver the speaker with the Marshall's output, but you are driving the input of the reamper with it, which is supposed to respond the same as a speaker (the jury is still out on this perhaps?). That driven sound is then re-amplified post-fx loop, with either a SS power amp (BC) or tube power amp (Fryette).

Probably would have worked as the OP wanted, but whether that amp/loadbox interface would have retained his sound (without inducing other unwanted artifacts) is another question altogether.


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## Adcandour

@numb41

Jim (who has the amp now), also has an attenuator and can probably test out the theories. TBH, I hope there wasn't a solution. I've already looked up to the sky screaming 'no' once, and I don't think my family wants to see that again.


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## jb welder

adcandour said:


> TBH, I hope there wasn't a solution. I've already looked up to the sky screaming 'no' once, and I don't think my family wants to see that again.


It would have only been a solution if you were ok with re-amping with a second power amp. (the second amp could be either built into the attenuator or external)
The Marshall power amp section would have basically become a preamp for the input of the delay unit, the delay output would go to the re-amp which would drive the speaker.
Sorry about the poor communication but that's about the gist of the point I was trying to make.


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## Beano Addict

I have a Fryette Power Station and it's awesome. Tried it on a '73 Marshall SuperBass and it made it sound even nicer.


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