# There Does Come a Time when One Should Stop



## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Its a shame when good musicians should have someone looking out for their best interests and not be so greedy to keep putting them out there when they just don't have it anymore. It makes me very sad to see these type of situations where you had a great player and due to his age he no longer can provide the musical night that folks pay for.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1257086/b-b-kings-erratic-performance-leaves-fans-with-the-blues/ sometimes its just better to fade away then to do this to a great like BB King. ship...............it seems that he is having more bad nights of playing then good ones


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I read another article about this.

Yes, it's time for BB to retire.

It's noble to want to continue, but it's sad to see him as such a pale shadow of himself.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Quoting the article: 

"St. Louis record store owner Tom “Papa” Ray did not attend the King concert, but said audiences should know to adjust their expectations when watching beloved musicians whose peak is well in the past.

“If your 88-year-old father or grandfather was great in a particular art or craft, and his performance was disappointing, would you heckle him?” said Ray, owner of Vintage Vinyl. “It totally saddened me to hear about that.”"

Papa Ray said it all... enough said.

As long as there are butts in the seats and air in his lungs, BB King will keep at it.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Les Paul kept playing at the Iridium until he was in his 90's. Yes, he was not as good as he was in his youth but decent people will adjust for it and act accordingly. Retirement is a personal issue IMO.
As for promoters putting them out there to continue making money off them, that's another issue.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Mr. King has had two wives and 15 children, according to his wiki entry. Given his age, and when those marriages occurred, I'd imagine everyone is grown up now and more than able to fend for themselves. Still, like most such bluesmen, I imagine he did not fully reap the monetary rewards of his early career, had support payments to eat away at his assets, and does not have all that much of a 401K. So, I can't imagine he's "poor" but he keeps touring to pay his medical expenses, and provide work for others.

I suspect that there generally comes a time when, if you shouldn't be touring at all (e.g., Glen Campbell, who is declining due to Alzheimer's disease), you should at least consider being on a shared bill with others, such that the burden of carrying a show does not rest entirely on your shoulders. Watching one old bluesman in a chair is perhaps not a satisfying evening. Watching two or 3 old bluesmen sitting in chairs, trading riffs, tunes, and jabs, WOULD be a fun evening, with no one obliged to carry the whole show. Unfortunately, B B doesn't really have all that many peers left alive these days. And I can't see Buddy Guy sitting in a chair for 2 hours.

I only saw B B live once, in his heyday, after Alive and Well was released, on a triple bill with Bobby Blue Bland and Mongo Santamaria. We got there early, and were standing close enough that I could read the little Dymo label on the headstock of his guitar that read "My name is Lucille. I belong to B B King." Helluva show. Helluva show.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Bobby Orr could have stayed in the NHL and made lots more money but his own personal ethics and desire to not play with diminished skills kept him from staying in the league longer. He said that (not in these words) he felt that it wouldn't be right for Chicago to pay him big $$ if he couldn't deliver.


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## vanderkalin (Sep 4, 2009)

If I recall correctly, Les could still bring it right up to the end. Live at the Regal was possibly the greatest live album ever, and BB was a performer with few peers, but it's been time to hang it up for a while now. I would pay to hear his stories, but call it what it is and leave the band at home. That said it is the height of no class to heckle him.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

smorgdonkey said:


> Bobby Orr could have stayed in the NHL and made lots more money but his own personal ethics and desire to not play with diminished skills kept him from staying in the league longer. He said that (not in these words) he felt that it wouldn't be right for Chicago to pay him big $$ if he couldn't deliver.


I think with athletes its more clearly obvious when they can no longer do the job than it is with musicians.
I can think of some musicians who would have retired in their 20's if every live show was scrutinized for not hitting the high notes, flubbing lyrics/solos, getting ahead or behind the beat etc.

So I think it comes down to the audience expectations. I know if if I go see Ozzy he will be constantly off pitch. He always has been. Getting the notes right just interferes too much with his running around and clapping and yelling "go f-ing crazy!!!!".
But that's his thing, so no one calls him out on it.


maybe the real issue is that BB's tickets just cost too damn much. 
Looking at that pic, he does look like the end is nigh.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

I don't think greed plays into this at all .

All BB knows is the road,that's how he has lived his life .I suspect he wants to die doing it .
I don't think he is still doing it for the money,he doesn't know how to not tour .
He is also probably working to keep his band working too,I'm sure they are not all as well off as BB is .
I've seen him four times since '80 the last being in 2002 .
Each show got a little less inspiring,but it was still BB.He is a legend .
I've had opportunity to see him since 2002,but have passed just because I didn't want to see him in any more of a decline .
Always will be one of my absolute favourites .


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

dradlin said:


> Quoting the article:
> 
> "St. Louis record store owner Tom “Papa” Ray did not attend the King concert, but said audiences should know to adjust their expectations when watching beloved musicians whose peak is well in the past.
> 
> ...


Really? You pay $150 a seat for lowered expectations?

Sorry but as much as I admire BB and other legendary performers, I think there has to be a basic standard. In fact, BB should be the one to recognize that he needs to pack it in.

It's not like he has anything to prove.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Really? You pay $150 a seat for lowered expectations?
> 
> Sorry but as much as I admire BB and other legendary performers, I think there has to be a basic standard. In fact, BB should be the one to recognize that he needs to pack it in.
> 
> It's not like he has anything to prove.


No, I wouldn't pay $150 per seat. I know better.

Heck I passed on Bonamassa at $150 per seat.

I saw BB a couple years ago for $65 per seat, and didn't have great expectations from him even then while being a couple years younger.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

dradlin said:


> Heck I passed on Bonamassa at $150 per seat.
> 
> .


I might pay that for Bonamassa if they were really good seats.


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## doriangrey (Mar 29, 2011)

Yup, this is sad to see... I saw a clip in another thread where Johnny Winter was playing live and it was awful...it is sad to see these aging greats start to play sour but I agree that at some point they need to stop...especially if they are going to charge that kind of money and then perform poorly...


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> I might pay that for Bonamassa if they were really good seats.


Agreed... they weren't... they were third class. Over $200 for a good seat.


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## Disbeat (Jul 30, 2011)

I'm pretty sure musicians that are playing past their prime are not doing it to prove something. I can almost guarantee they are doing it because they love it and that's all they know, also I don't imagine they are the ones that are responsible for how much venues are charging for tickets. 

I can only assume most people that are going to see a musician in his 80's knows he is not gonna be playing like he did in his 20's, and if they do and are dissapointed then they won't go next time they go on tour. On the other hand there are lots of people that will go see people like that until they do stop. 

I don't think anyone should ever have to give up doing what they love.


Milkman said:


> Really? You pay $150 a seat for lowered expectations?
> 
> Sorry but as much as I admire BB and other legendary performers, I think there has to be a basic standard. In fact, BB should be the one to recognize that he needs to pack it in.
> 
> It's not like he has anything to prove.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

dradlin said:


> Agreed... they weren't... they were third class. Over $200 for a good seat.


At those prices Joe B. can afford to hire a proper singer.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

One of the first concerts I ever attended was B.B. at Canada's Wonderland in the early 90s, what a great show! Colin James as the opening act was gravy. Then I saw B.B. again about 10 yrs. later on a triple bill at the Molson Amphitheatre with Susan Tedeschi & Buddy Guy. His decline was pretty obvious so I haven't gone since. 

I love The Who, Stones etc. but it's for the same reason that I've refused to see them in concert. Even if the tickets were free, seeing a shadow of their former selves would ruin my image of those bands. I prefer to watch concert DVDs filmed when they were in their prime.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I've seen BB twice--many years ago--and he was great--both are in my top 5.

And neither of them cost anywhere near $150-200.

That's crazy for anybody--at least in my opinion.
If you have the cash and wish to spend it that way--go for it.


As for BB, as I commented on another board--if he still wants to tour--do a speaking tour--he can talk about his life & music, answer questions, flirt with the ladies (As he does now), tell jokes (As he also does), lead sing alongs, and play a few licks.

Package it right and price it right, and he could still draw a crowd, and entertain them.

Les Paul re-invented himself when he got older, and I never heard those kind of complaints about him (Doesn't mean they weren't there--I just didn't hear them)
He got some great reviews for how he did it.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Comes a Time.

[video=youtube;1_tDE71y5WU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_tDE71y5WU&amp;feature=related[/video]


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I might pay that for Bonamassa if they were really good seats.



Me too, but to get half decent seats for his show in the Sony Center you'd have to double that.

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zontar said:


> I've seen BB twice--many years ago--and he was great--both are in my top 5.
> 
> And neither of them cost anywhere near $150-200.
> 
> ...


Great approach IMO. I read that Ronny Hawkins is doing somethng like that these days.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

This is exactly what we were talking about in that other thread. You have to consider what the customer is paying for. If they bill it as a concert then you have to provide a concert. It's really sad that some of these guys are going out this way.


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