# Any fitness / weight loss testimonials?



## Milkman

As I just reached a milestone in my personal path toward fitness and health, I thought I'd see if anyone else has a testimonial or story to share.

Here's mine.

In early 2010, I visited my doctor. After checking my blood pressure (she checked it twice because the numbers were sort of shocking) I was promptly prescribed drugs and told it would be for life.

There was no discussion about root cause, none, zero.

I decided to see how much I could accomplish with diet and exercise.

I don't really know where I maxed out in terms of weight. You don't weigh yourself a lot when you're big.

I'm sure I eclipsed 240 lbs. A 38 inch waistline in work pants was almost impossible to keep closed.

This picture may be reasonably close but I have video of later shows where I look bigger.










So, on April 26, 2010 I started by getting on the treadmill in the hotel I was staying in near Atlanta, GA.

It was twenty minutes and I didn't even have proper shoes. I used dress shoes.

But, it was the beginning.

Over the following two years my interest and the intensity and frequency of my exercise grew steadily to the point where I go to a gym at least six days a week. I do cardio every day and have developed a schedule of strength training which I rotate.

I also made fundamental and continuous changes to my diet, going from what was not terribly far from heart attack grill territory to the point where I eat very little red meat and am steadily increasing the amount of plant based food I eat.

The results? It's a work in progress, but I dropped around 50 lbs, now wear 30 inch waste in jeans and need a belt.

Body fat is 12% or less.

More important than all that is this:


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## al3d

Really inspiring Story man..truly is. i'm in a bit of the same situation. I have big back problems and now cholesterol as well, and doc wants me to drop 60 lbs, i'm right now around 265lbs at 6.3ft. thing is training is REALLY hard with a Bad Back. AND on top of that, i've become used to eating really shitty junk food, chips, chocolat, Coke, that sort of shit. Chocolat for me is a Drug now actually. I know loosing that weight would really actually help my back a LOT...AND stopping smoking as well..but i admit, i just can't find the strenght to even begin such a journey at my age.


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## blam

That's awesome milkman. 

Congratulations!! It's much deserved. 

I've never really been overweight so I can't really share any stories like that one. 

The heaviest I've ever been was 163lbs and I'm 5'-6"

That was big for me, so I dieted for 3 months and got down to 143 lbs. 

I'm now sitting at around 151 lbs. I'd like to lose 5 more pounds an quite honestly it's hard. Mad respect for those who can keep in shape.


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## mrmatt1972

I need to do what you did somehow. My knees make jogging next to impossible tho.


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## traynor_garnet

al3d said:


> Really inspiring Story man..truly is. i'm in a bit of the same situation. I have big back problems and now cholesterol as well, and doc wants me to drop 60 lbs, i'm right now around 265lbs at 6.3ft. thing is training is REALLY hard with a Bad Back. AND on top of that, i've become used to eating really shitty junk food, chips, chocolat, Coke, that sort of shit. Chocolat for me is a Drug now actually. I know loosing that weight would really actually help my back a LOT...AND stopping smoking as well..but i admit, i just can't find the strenght to even begin such a journey at my age.


Al, part of the reason I started working out was because of my terrible neck and back problems. At my worst, I was almost a pack day, 215 pound flab monster with zero muscle mass (I mean it; weak and fat!). At 30 I quite smoking because I knew it would kill me. Shortly after that I started jogging and made it 1 km before stopping because I honestly thought I was going to puke. That humble beginning was almost 12 years ago. I now hit the gym 5 times a week, keep a handle on what I eat (but not crazy cautious) and am in decent shape for a guy who turns 42 in 2013. My back and neck problems are far from gone, but they are WAY better than they were.

We both became fathers late in life, and therefore we have all the reasons in the world to find the strength to stay in shape. Start with something that is really simple but really effective: do not eat anything after supper. Seriously, you will drop weight in a month without doing anything else. If you stick to that, add to it by finding three times a week you can walk somewhere instead of driving. Once you start to see results, you will become inspired to take it to another level.

I will skip the lecture on smoking, but know this. Of any group out there, the group that is most likely to stick to a new exercise program is ex-smokers. If you have the will power to knock the killer weed, you have the will power to do anything.

TG


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## blam

Seem like a lot of us are/were overweight. 

I guess in the flip side I started my adult life at 112 pounds going into post secondary school. 

Yes, that's not a typo. 112 lb. most women weigh more than that. That's when I started working out. After my first year I was up to 135lbs and feeling fantastic. 

TG is absolutely right. You may not think you have reasons to be in shape now, but you will more than likely have a reason in the future.


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## Milkman

Thanks for the replies guys.

i turn 52 in December. I can safely say I am in better shape now than at any time in my adult life. 

Some of that is pure luck. It isn't lost on me how different my climb would be if I had a chronic back or leg injury.


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## smorgdonkey

I can't tell you any story of overcoming anything like that. *It is pretty enlightening to me that someone can see the 'value' of their life and take the steps necessary to improve it (your story Milkman).*

My life and my relationship with fitness has been odd. My best friends in elementary school were identical twins. Their parents even called them 'twin'. Anyway, they were great athletes and I was always trying to keep up with them so I went from slow to fast pretty quickly. They were training with the high school basketball team when they were in grade 5. they were short but everyone could see their talent and I suppose they wanted to nurture it early. I learned a lot competing with them. We (the twins and I) took on the entire class in soccer daily in that era - we never lost. 

I asked for weights when I was ten and I got 10 pound dumbells for Christmas. I used them a lot. I moved away and no longer had my twin friends to team up with but I had my interest in sports and a drive to excel. At 13 I got the full dumbell/barbell set and a bench followed. In small town Nova Scotia, a lot of the 'popular kids' were getting people to go into the liquor store for them on Friday nights - Friday was a workout night for me so, I never did that. 

When I was 15 I could play football with the 17 & 18 year olds and be the most outstanding player on the field. I scored 18 goals in a floor hockey game one time...that was heavy duty like everyone else was in slow motion. At 17 years old I lifted 140 pounds over my head on a barbell with one hand. It was a pretty wild and intense party trick. I started with about 70 pounds and moved up. I got to the point that I could just pull on the bar a bit without even taking it off of the ground and be able to tell if I needed to move my grip placement at all because on a 6 ft bar, a qurter of an inch can make a wild difference in balance. 

When I was in my 20s I lived with a dietician for a while and she was reading this book 'Diet For A New America'. It was all about not eating any animal products. I got into it in a big way. Hard core vegan for 3 or 4 years and experiencing unreal health/vitality/well-being. I avoided animal products for years on a regular basis after that but since not for any religious reason, I could eat whatever was being served or choose anything on the menu so to speak.

I had gone through periods when exercise had taken a back seat but I could only get so far away from it and I would gravitate back toward it...the sense of well-being, the clarity of thought and the depth of sleep that exercise seemed to facilitate was always a major stabilizing factor for me and stress always seemed to be something that would bring me back to it.

Anyway, about 4 years ago (age 41) I was on midnight shifts and working out steady as a maintenance thing but mentally exhausted from the midnight shifts. I chose to do the P90X routine (not the diet or anything - just the exercise routines) so that I didn't have to think about working out - I just had to follow someone (the people on the dvds). I didn't have a chin-up bar for the first couple of weeks so I just did lat pulldowns on a machine when it was chin-up time. I was reading quite a bit about chin-ups when I started that routine and much of what I read said that there was such a difference between lat pulldowns and chinning. I could lat pulldown heavy weights but I could only do 2 chin-ups.

After I finished P90X I was doing 25 chin-ups while weighing 210 pounds.

6 months after finishing that routine, I went letter carrying doing 18km and 3500 stairs per day. It screwed my knees and legs and I was like a hospital patient after every day. I actually put on weight doing that job because I would just lay around after finishing my day. On weekends I would just lay around too. It sucked. I did that for 14 months and it did permanent damage to my body during that time.

I can't run, but I might try if I can get about 10 pounds off. My knees would love me for that as I work on concrete floors and I have for about 25 years. I have knee pain every day and I have a miniscus issue that sometimes causes an area below/beside my kneecap to puff up and hurts like hell. I can't do 25 chin-ups now but if I drop about 15 pounds I will likely be able to do 17 or 18. 

So, I don't have a long way to go to get back into shape that I will be happy with and I am going to try to drop 10 pounds before Christmas that will get me on the right track. I do need to get my fluid trainer back from my cousin now that the winter is almost upon us. If I can drop the 10 by Christmas, I will try going to a ball field and run on grass if we get a nice winter like last year. *Even though I don't seem far off from where I want to be with fitness, I think that my injuries will cause this to be one of my biggest challenges.*


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## bw66

Well done Milkman et al!

No inspiring story here, though I did drop five pounds (out of 215) a couple of years ago and kept it off - made a huge difference just losing that little bit. I have arthritis in my hip, but it has been much better even carrying around five fewer pounds.

I'm pretty active, so no gym for me, but for those of you with bad backs, knees, hips, etc., look into swimming - very low impact with high calorie burn. 

It's also worth noting that improving your fitness will improve your health more than losing weight will, and exercising also combats depression, ADD, and other ailments - which dieting won't. In fact, exercising will often result in slight weight gain in the initial stages as you build muscle mass. (You should also be aware that exercise will increase your appetite - resist. And snack on fruits and veggies - getting good nutrition reduces your appetite.)


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## Milkman

I've been so lucky. My case seems to be one of almost optimum results. Everything has gone right. Some examples:


I had no chronic injuries.

I was not pressured into change, but rather was inspired to do so.

I have the resources to exercise in a fantastic facility.

I am naturally inclined to sweat heavily during physical activity.

I adapt to change more easily than some.

Really, losing the weight was not difficult. I dropped the 50 plus pounds within about seven months and have remained stable at 185 lbs (plus or minus 5 lbs) for more than two years now.


My current challenge is to continue adding more plant based foods to my diet. I have an aversion to leafy vegetables (have never eaten a salad in my life).

I intend to transition into a better diet with the use of a juicer. I've tried drinks with all kinds of green stuff in them and the little bit of apple or kiwi helped immensely.

I continue reshaping my body, converting fat to muscle.

In fact, in about an hour, I'll pick up one of my daughters and head to the gym. Today will be twenty-five minutes of hill climbing on an elliptical, followed by a series of lifting activities (arms today), then about a half hour of abdominal stuff (inclined sit ups, crunches, leg raises), a steam, shave and shower.

What a great way to start the day. Honestly, although people will tell you this, you can't really appreciate how much better you feel the rest of the day. You really do get a high.


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## Jim DaddyO

I am watching this thread. 
I stopped smoking cigarettes about 6 months ago. I was 220 lbs at the time and I am 6' 3". At the time I thought I could stand to lose about 20 lbs. Now I have put on about 10 more from munching instead of smoking. I totally messed up my knee about 5 1/2 years ago, so cardio/jogging/bouncing around, etc. is not on the menu unless I learn to walk on my hands. The wife and I (well, her mostly) are starting to be more aware of what we put in our mouths, she has lost a few pounds and I, 2 so far. We are watching our carbs (which also lowers the calories too), eating less processed foods, and more green things. We have cut way down on white foods (potatoes, rice, sugar) and have gone more toward whole grains, etc. (I am still a sucker for a potato chip....PC brand loads of jalapeno popper). I am hoping to get down to an even 200 lbs. I have no time line, as long as the weight keeps going in the same direction, I am happy with that. The thing that is really hard is finding something to do that burns calories and keeps me off the knee at the same time. My range in walking distance is not that great, and now with the snow, it is even harder. Big changes now that I am 51.


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## Milkman

Jim DaddyO said:


> I am watching this thread.
> I stopped smoking cigarettes about 6 months ago. I was 220 lbs at the time and I am 6' 3". At the time I thought I could stand to lose about 20 lbs. Now I have put on about 10 more from munching instead of smoking. I totally messed up my knee about 5 1/2 years ago, so cardio/jogging/bouncing around, etc. is not on the menu unless I learn to walk on my hands. The wife and I (well, her mostly) are starting to be more aware of what we put in our mouths, she has lost a few pounds and I, 2 so far. We are watching our carbs (which also lowers the calories too), eating less processed foods, and more green things. We have cut way down on white foods (potatoes, rice, sugar) and have gone more toward whole grains, etc. (I am still a sucker for a potato chip....PC brand loads of jalapeno popper). I am hoping to get down to an even 200 lbs. I have no time line, as long as the weight keeps going in the same direction, I am happy with that. The thing that is really hard is finding something to do that burns calories and keeps me off the knee at the same time. My range in walking distance is not that great, and now with the snow, it is even harder. Big changes now that I am 51.


Hey Jim,


I'm 51 also. The key is diet. 

I believe you have to get that under control first.

With chronic leg injuries, low impact cardio is best. Elliptical machines are much more gentle than running or cycling.

I can't know how your injury feels but I do know that when I pull a muscle or some other admittedly minor injury, a light cardio work out speeds my healing by a noticeable margin.

I think it's also important to focus on continuous improvement (positive trend) as opposed to setting short term targets and goals.

Be better than you were yesterday or maybe last month.

That's how I wrapped my mind around it.

Best of luck!


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## starjag

Great advice Milkman!

I'm only 5'8" and reached my heaviest in 2008 with 213lbs. I started 2012 with 203lbs and the will to get back in shape and change some bad habits that I developed over the past 10 years or so.

I'm 41yo and have been around the 152-155lbs over the past several months. With diet and exercise changes that have now become habits, so I don't see/feel them as sacrifices any longer.

I have found that a vegetarian diet (with fish, eggs, and cheese as part of the protein base) works well for my system. My resting heart rate is generally below 50 with a very healthy blood pressure. I also sleep better, snoring is gone.

I agree that the key is diet. If the commitment is there, the results and benefits will be there as well. Cheers!


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## Milkman

It's not surprising, but another fundamental difference I feel is the confidence that comes with knowing you've accomplished something that changes the way the world sees and reacts to you.

Any job is better with confidence. A job where you have to make presentations and negotiate multi million dollar contracts is even more "confidence based" than some.

I feel much better emotionally. 

It's very much a case of a positive spiral. It feeds on itself if that makes sense.

Good luck to everyone who tries. Better to try and fail than to do nothing.

If you fail, fine. Try again.


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## Jim DaddyO

Maybe we should have a fat old guitar player club. Mutual support group thing....lol.
Was just out shoveling a bit of snow, I did not run out of breath. At least I can work my upper body enough to get a sweat up. The knee is not happy with the whole thing though. Uneven ground and a bit of twisting and it tells me that. I have been trying for 5 years to get its endurance and strength up, but it is not to be. I got what I got and have to learn to work around the parameters I have. Been thinking of some Tai Chi, but for now, I am thinking of walking back and forth on the driveway, behind the snow thrower.


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## Milkman

Jim DaddyO said:


> Maybe we should have a fat old guitar player club. Mutual support group thing....lol.
> Was just out shoveling a bit of snow, I did not run out of breath. At least I can work my upper body enough to get a sweat up. The knee is not happy with the whole thing though. Uneven ground and a bit of twisting and it tells me that. I have been trying for 5 years to get its endurance and strength up, but it is not to be. I got what I got and have to learn to work around the parameters I have. Been thinking of some Tai Chi, but for now, I am thinking of walking back and forth on the driveway, behind the snow thrower.


Ah yes, the venerable FOGP club. I could be a founding member LOL.

Tai Chi or Yoga might be very helpful.

Actually, I was looking around at the gym this morning, considering how I would work out if I had problems with my legs or back.

There are several machines designed for such people, some of which even have wheelchair accessability.

One in particular is like a hand bicycle. I checked it out and you can definitely get your cardio on that sucker with zero impact to your legs.

Having said that, I still maintain that some light exercise is one of the best way to improve the situation with the bad knee.


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## keto

Same as with a bad back. My doc refused to prescribe painkillers or send me for any sort of xray or imaging, despite the fact that I could barely walk and certainly couldn't flex or lift anything. Had me read a book, that I have misplaced at the moment, but anyways written by a back doc who prescribed stretching and other movement based exercise, not especially taxing cardio but great for flexibility. It won't work for everyone, as he freely admits in the book, but the success rate is very high. I had a chiro move some things in place (CRACK in the lower back) and got some immediate relief from that, then did a few weeks of the book's regimen in front of the TV in the evenings. Good as new. Problem sporadically reappears, particularly when I drive a lot (like, 8-12 hours for multiple days) but I can make the problem go away in a week or 2 by doing the stretching and mobility stuff. 

I'll see if I can find the book and relay the title & author.


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## greco

keto said:


> I'll see if I can find the book and relay the title & author.


I'm wondering if it is "The Back Doctor" by Hamilton Hall, M.D.. 
He is a Canadian orthopaedic surgeon and his books have been very popular through time.

Cheers

Dave


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## Milkman

keto said:


> Same as with a bad back. My doc refused to prescribe painkillers or send me for any sort of xray or imaging, despite the fact that I could barely walk and certainly couldn't flex or lift anything. Had me read a book, that I have misplaced at the moment, but anyways written by a back doc who prescribed stretching and other movement based exercise, not especially taxing cardio but great for flexibility. It won't work for everyone, as he freely admits in the book, but the success rate is very high. I had a chiro move some things in place (CRACK in the lower back) and got some immediate relief from that, then did a few weeks of the book's regimen in front of the TV in the evenings. Good as new. Problem sporadically reappears, particularly when I drive a lot (like, 8-12 hours for multiple days) but I can make the problem go away in a week or 2 by doing the stretching and mobility stuff.
> 
> I'll see if I can find the book and relay the title & author.


Why does everyone have a better doctor than me? Mine reaches for the prescription pad right away, no matter what.

Stretching and light cardio is remarkably effective for me, but as I have said, my problems tend to be mildly pulled muscles and DOMs from lifting.

But, when I walk in to the gym sore in that way, it always feels somewhat better after my cardio work out.


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## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> Why does everyone have a better doctor than me? Mine reaches for the prescription pad right away, no matter what.
> 
> Stretching and light cardio is remarkably effective for me, but as I have said, my problems tend to be mildly pulled muscles and DOMs from lifting.
> 
> But, when I walk in to the gym sore in that way, it always feels somewhat better after my cardio work out.


This might make you feel better: my doctor doesn't seem to know anything. He once prescibed a nasal spray for this crazy dizziness I was experiencing but I also told him in the same visit that I was having severe nosebleeds and the spray is known to cause nosebleeds.


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## Milkman

smorgdonkey said:


> This might make you feel better: my doctor doesn't seem to know anything. He once prescibed a nasal spray for this crazy dizziness I was experiencing but I also told him in the same visit that I was having severe nosebleeds and the spray is known to cause nosebleeds.


My doctor would have also prescribed something for the nosebleeds and if that caused any nasty side effects I'm sure I could get something for those too.


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## smorgdonkey

Oh I see, he's one of those "there's a drug for everything" kind of doctors!

I find that in Nova Scotia (probably because there is an older population), people believe that if a doctor prescribes something that they don't have to do anything or change anything (lifestyle, diet, etc) because the pill takes care of that.

It is scary to me.


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## Spikezone

I'll jump into this thread. I was a fat little kid...my Mom was a farm wife, and is a good cook who made enough food to feed a threshing crew. Being the oldest in the family and the most willing to please, I always got the acceptable task of finishing off what was left at dinner time, which led to my size. I have never been REALLY FAT, more like what you would call portly (LOL!). Anyway, I am 55 now, about 5'10", and was up to about 240 at my heaviest. I have had cancer twice since 2005, testicular non-Hodgkins the first time, treated surgically and with chemo and radiation, and then again a couple of years ago it unexpectedly resurfaced in the form of a brain tumor, which was non-operable, so they treated me with 10 treatments of Methatrexate, an extremely poisonous chemo, every second week. I had a 20% prognosis, but I am still here, getting regular MRI's, and loving life. After I finished my treatments, I went to see a Naturopath specializing in Oncology, and got on some natural medications which have been found to short-circuit the growth of cancer cells in a body. I also read a good book called Anti Cancer, which was written by a doctor who went through the same thing as me. The gist of his book is that the immune system of we humans should have the capability to fight off cancer but that our lifestyle in North America has weakened our immune systems to the point that they are not doing what they are intended to. I came out of this whole experience with a resolve to change my eating. I also have gotten away from 'white' foods as much as I can, have limited my meat intake and am eating a lot more beans and nuts (not peanuts, though). I love Hummus and have gotten really good at making it on a regular basis. I am lucky, in that I have always loved fresh veggies (I usually have three or four in my lunch at work every day, with no dips or dressing). The point is that I have dropped almost 40 pounds, not even really thinking that I was dieting, just eating better. I work at a grocery store, so do a lot of walking and lifting as part of my regular job, but I don't go to the gym. I have been thinking lately that I should, though. I keep reading how beneficial exercise is to so many workings of our body, and I have to overcome my aversion to 'gym life' at some point and get into it in order to continue my longevity. Thanks Milkman for this thread and congrats on your lifestyle change and the results of it!
-Mikey


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## Milkman

Wow,

I'm encouraged and inspired by your post Spikezone.

I couldn't agree more about our immune systems gradually losing the ability to fight problems like cancers.

Also, I'm familiar with methotrexate. My wife was on it for awhile. It's nasty, as are most chemicals we're directed to ingest when fighting cancer.

I was so completely NOT a gym person prior to turning that corner. I had very little background in sports for most of my adult life.

I actually had to hire a personal trainer for six months to show me proper form and technique because I really had no idea what the F#%k I was doing.

Now, I feel perfectly at ease there. I use a little iPod shuffle and just go from one activity to another. I know what I'm going to do before I get there. I'm friendly but not there to socialize.

I work very hard.


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## zontar

Weight loss?

My biggest weight loss was due to a week and a half int he hospital--enough to put you off food for a while, but not a recommended method for weight loss.


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## Milkman

zontar said:


> Weight loss?
> 
> My biggest weight loss was due to a week and a half int he hospital--enough to put you off food for a while, but not a recommended method for weight loss.


True enough.

The funny thing is, some people whom I haven't seen since I lost the weight immediately think I've been sick. It IS one of the most obvious effects of serious illness of course.


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## Electraglide

I don't go to the gym, my diet is eating what's available, I average smoking around a pack a day and the last time I saw a dr. was about 8 years ago. He prescribed blood pressure pills for an ailment common to some men my age. Drop the blood pressure and other things will go up? I don't think so. Then I met my wife and she cured that problem. 
Anyway, like others here I've torn back muscles, broken my right knee, both ankles and hyper extended the muscles in that knee also. Sometimes moving is not an option. But when I can I just walk. Between work and just for enjoyment about 10 miles a week. I do most of it when I want to and at my own pace, not pushing a lawnmower or a snow blower. That might or might not work for others but it works for me.
As far as the FOGP Club goes, there'll be meetings in the basement of the new house after we move in, room for about 20. Brownies will be hot out of the oven, ice cream in the freezer, coffee on the stove. Ashtrays for those like me who smoke and if you want a beer, you'll have to bring it yourself.


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## Milkman

Like I've said, injuries make it much more difficult to improve your overall health.

More difficult but hopefully not impossible.


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## Jim DaddyO

Some of us are in pretty rough shape. I think it all adds character and we can get the job done being creative, after all we (try to, in my case) play guitar!


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## Milkman

Jim DaddyO said:


> Some of us are in pretty rough shape. I think it all adds character and we can get the job done being creative, after all we (try to, in my case) play guitar!



Yup, and this thread is in no way intended to thumb my nose at anyone who has problems that prevent them from improving their health.

I hope it can serve as a motivator or catalyst for those considering a positive change.

I found myself at a crossroads a couple of years ago. The choices I made then are paying dividends now.

I'm the text book "late bloomer". If a guy like me can do it, I hope others will take something positive from that.


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## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> Yup, and this thread is in no way intended to thumb my nose at anyone who has problems that prevent them from improving their health.
> 
> I hope it can serve as a motivator or catalyst for those considering a positive change.
> 
> I found myself at a crossroads a couple of years ago. The choices I made then are paying dividends now.
> 
> I'm the text book "late bloomer". If a guy like me can do it, I hope others will take something positive from that.


*Cool post* and I definitely think that your story and accounts of your experience can inspire a few people to try. I hope it does because any time that you spend on your fitness is an investment in yourself. The dividends are amazing.

I highly suggest researching exercise to anyone who plans to start and also seeking medical advice if they have any conditions that are ongoing.

I was going to fly to the USA in the early '90s to get my American Council on Exercise personal trainer certification but I did not go further than studying (and I use that term somewhat loosely) the manual. I have done many different programs from weight-training, hardcore bodybuilding (about as hard core as it gets with no drugs-you know what I'm saying), interval training, circuit training, HIIT, extensive cardio, etc. I have used free weights, surgical tubing, plenty of different commercial exercise machines (like Hammer Strength, etc.) and some of the sexy machines like Soloflex that was big in the late '80s/early '90s. 

I have this machine now (have had it for about 12 years+) called Nitroflex. It is all based on this nitrogen charged cylinder. The angle of the main load shaft can be changed to increase or decrease resistance and to reverse the direction of the resistance as well. The huge advantage of this machine is that you do not need a spotter and you cannot build any momentum with it because you are working against the pressure that you are creating by pushing on the cylinder. 

One of the cool things about that aspect is that you can do full-speed reps without risk of injury. If you use free weights, for example, you will create a lot of momentum if you do fast reps and your body would have to stop the momentum before continuing on with more reps. This allows an intense cardio workout from traditional style strength exercises. 

I asked a girl I was living with ages ago to buy it for me...she's gone and the machine is still here. Jackpot.


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## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> My current challenge is to continue adding more plant based foods to my diet. I have an aversion to leafy vegetables (have never eaten a salad in my life).
> 
> I intend to transition into a better diet with the use of a juicer. I've tried drinks with all kinds of green stuff in them and the little bit of apple or kiwi helped immensely.


I was wondering if you have ever tried quinoa. It is a super food...really clean and nutrient-packed. I typically cook a pot of it and put in in the fridge & eat some each day. It has a really neutral flavour so it tends to 'take on' the flavours of things that you add it to. You can throw it is soup, or have it as a side like rice. I use it in pitas for wraps with hummus and I put in with salads too (that's one that you won't use HA!). I have even used it as a way to make salsa more chunky and I've had it as the base in stir-fry (replacing the rice). You could even throw it in your smoothies if you get heavy into that.



Milkman said:


> I continue reshaping my body, converting fat to muscle.


You seem like a person who likes to know, so I thought that I would say that this is technically incorrect. Fat and muscle are two distinctly different tissues which cannot be converted into each other.

You can burn off fat and build muscle or lose muscle and gain fat. You could even gain both or lose both at the same time. 

I suspect that you meant that you would be continuing to burn off fat and build muscle but the 'convert' is still commonly used in conversation and it is a good item to clarify for anyone reading who may not know.

Anyway...QUINOA!!
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/10352/2


----------



## Milkman

smorgdonkey said:


> I was wondering if you have ever tried quinoa. It is a super food...really clean and nutrient-packed. I typically cook a pot of it and put in in the fridge & eat some each day. It has a really neutral flavour so it tends to 'take on' the flavours of things that you add it to. You can throw it is soup, or have it as a side like rice. I use it in pitas for wraps with hummus and I put in with salads too (that's one that you won't use HA!). I have even used it as a way to make salsa more chunky and I've had it as the base in stir-fry (replacing the rice). You could even throw it in your smoothies if you get heavy into that.
> 
> 
> You seem like a person who likes to know, so I thought that I would say that this is technically incorrect. Fat and muscle are two distinctly different tissues which cannot be converted into each other.
> 
> You can burn off fat and build muscle or lose muscle and gain fat. You could even gain both or lose both at the same time.
> 
> I suspect that you meant that you would be continuing to burn off fat and build muscle but the 'convert' is still commonly used in conversation and it is a good item to clarify for anyone reading who may not know.
> 
> Anyway...QUINOA!!
> http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/10352/2



Yes I am a person who wants to know and yes, you're correct of course. I guess I wasn't speaking literally. Turning fat into muscle as in turning music into gold.

My weight has been very stable for over two years, never getting higher than 190 lbs or lower than 180, but yes, less fat more muscle.

i'm going to check your link. I have never heard of quinoa. Thanks!


----------



## sulphur

Good on you guys for your health regimens and sticking to it.

I just saw this on FB today, pretty topical and inspirational...

[video=youtube;j2laIPeiMtE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2laIPeiMtE[/video]


----------



## Milkman

Thanks. I needed a good cry, LOL.

I'm glad you posted this clip, because now that you mention it, the times I've been most inspired to work harder have been when I see someone in the gym with a disability or severe injury or maybe a really big guy just starting his trip but working hard and making gains.

But the man in your clip.....wow, that's worth a fist pump for sure.


----------



## Spikezone

Wow, great clip, sulphur! Very cool and inspirational! 

As for quinoa, I love the stuff. One of my favourite things is to cook it using this 'Better Than Bouillon' vegetable broth (I get it at Costco) instead of water and use it as a side dish. It IS great in salads too, nice to have a pot of it on hand on the fridge. It's kind of expensive, but so good for you that it's worth it.
-Mikey


----------



## smorgdonkey

Ok...that video was awesome. I watched it after getting back from a cold 45 minute walk during which I was thinking about how I had let my routine fall by the wayside (even though I still do more than most people that I know). Talking with Milkman & seeing his photos and now seeing this video and thinking how much I loved to sprint...I am upgrading my 10 pounds by Christmas goal to 15 pounds by Christmas. I am going to think about how hard that cat had it when I think it is tough getting up at 6:15am.

Aside from the rah-rah-siss-boom-bah-talk...seeing that dude falling while doing yoga reminded me of when I was doing yoga during P90X. I was not over weight but I was very inflexible. My balance was questionable more than once during awkward positions in that yoga routine.

Another observation: I thought "man that looks like Diamond Dallas Page" in the video when the guy is saying "I had to help this guy" and the dude says at the end "thanks DDP". So, that's Dallas Page the former pro wrestler. Crazy. I guess it's Jake the Snake aerobics after this.

Oh...and quinoa can be purchased at Costco too at times as my aunt has picked it up for me there on sale at great prices. It triples in size when it is cooked so that helps too! I think I'll try that vegetable boullion trick as well Mikey.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Great vid...I am missing the like button again.


----------



## smorgdonkey

6:19am and I'm about to hit another set. 

My Friday weigh in was 227. Now that sounds big but I am a shade over 6 ft tall and 44" ish chest.


----------



## bolero

hey this is a great thread!!

problem I had with Quinoa is I get an upset stomach when I ate it...I love the stuff though, I make it like porridge in the AM, throw a sliced apple + cinnamon in there with some raisins or currants & it's frickin good

I found out you're supposed to wash it, as the resin the plant produces as a natural defense upsets your stomach...maybe some ppl are more sensitive than others

anyway, I'm inspired to get back in shape now, after reading this...when I lived out west & mtn biked 6 days a week I was in the best shape of my life. now I sit at a desk all day & am...blah!1

cheers


----------



## Milkman

bolero said:


> hey this is a great thread!!
> 
> problem I had with Quinoa is I get an upset stomach when I ate it...I love the stuff though, I make it like porridge in the AM, throw a sliced apple + cinnamon in there with some raisins or currants & it's frickin good
> 
> I found out you're supposed to wash it, as the resin the plant produces as a natural defense upsets your stomach...maybe some ppl are more sensitive than others
> 
> anyway, I'm inspired to get back in shape now, after reading this...when I lived out west & mtn biked 6 days a week I was in the best shape of my life. now I sit at a desk all day & am...blah!1
> 
> cheers


Thanks for posting Bolero. I have a similar problem with my job. When I'm not running through airports or driving I'm at a desk behind a computer or in meetings all day.

It's pretty tough to get any exercise while at work. Not being inclined to participate in sports makes it even more important that I do SOMEthing to prevent myself from sliding down into the typical problems men (and women) my age seem to have all too often.

Good luck with your mission. 

Making the decision to start is the biggest and most important step.


----------



## Milkman

smorgdonkey said:


> 6:19am and I'm about to hit another set.
> 
> My Friday weigh in was 227. Now that sounds big but I am a shade over 6 ft tall and 44" ish chest.


Right on man. I LOVE morning workouts. Nothing gets your energy up or makes you feel so good all day. If I started work at 9:00, I'd be in the gym at 7:30 AM every day, but I like to be here by 7:30 and I'm not inclined to get up at 5:00 AM.

On the weekends I hit the gym at around 8:00 AM. I took American Thanksgiving (two days) off last week as vacation days so I was there every morning at 8:00 Wed~ Sunday. Today will have to be after work.

227 at 6' tall is not bad dependiong on your frame. I'm also 5'11" and have a very large frame so at my current weight of 185 I don't look really big. The body mass index tells me I should be around 177 lbs, but honestly, I'd look like a death camp inmate at that weight. Obvioulsy those things are meant to be taken with a grain of salt.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Stepped on the scales this morning and about another pound gone. Down to 227, so about a pound/week is going. Aiming for around 200 even. I think I will be comfortable there at 6' 3". 

Up until I was about 35, I went about 160 with a 30" waist. If I stood sideways and stuck my tongue out I looked like a zipper because all my ribs showed.


----------



## Milkman

Jim DaddyO said:


> Stepped on the scales this morning and about another pound gone. Down to 227, so about a pound/week is going. Aiming for around 200 even. I think I will be comfortable there at 6' 3".
> 
> Up until I was about 35, I went about 160 with a 30" waist. If I stood sideways and stuck my tongue out I looked like a zipper because all my ribs showed.


I can relate to that. I was a skinny guy until I hit around the same age. Then suddenly I looked down and noticed I could balance a bowl of soup on my gut while sitting.

It's so easy to put it on. Why is it such a challenge to take it back off?

Doesn't seem fair, LOL.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Yes, I know. I was going to nominate myself for a "Dickie-do" award, because my gut sticks out more than my dickie do.


----------



## Milkman

Jim DaddyO said:


> Yes, I know. I was going to nominate myself for a "Dickie-do" award, because my gut sticks out more than my dickie do.


There's a bad joke in me just screaming to escape.

Actually it was nice just seeing my "special purpose" after years of wondering what it looked like.


----------



## greco

Milkman said:


> I'm also 5'11" and have a very large frame so at my current weight of 185 I don't look really big. The body mass index tells me I should be around 177 lbs, but honestly, I'd look like a death camp inmate at that weight. Obvioulsy those things are meant to be taken with a grain of salt.


This is interesting Milkman. I am virtually the same height and weight as you are. My frame might be a bit smaller. I have thought about losing 10 pounds, but my wife says that I would look terrible. Maybe I will aim for 182 or so and call it a day.

Thanks for this inspirational fitness side of this thread. Many years ago I was a masters swimming program, swimming with a coach and a club. 

I would suggest swimming as an alternate form of exercise for anyone who enjoys it. However, it is important to have coaching to become efficient in the water and stroke correction to avoid potential hazards...especially shoulder problems. If you don't mind the loneliness of it, water sloshing around in your ears for (possibly) hours later and smelling like a brillo pad, it is just perfect as it is non-impact and great for cardio and strengthening. Also, you sweat into the pool...not into your clothes. Lastly, it is not that expensive in the long "run" (ooops...the long "swim")

Cheers

Dave


----------



## Milkman

greco said:


> This is interesting Milkman. I am virtually the same height and weight as you are. My frame might be a bit smaller. I have thought about losing 10 pounds, but my wife says that I would look terrible. Maybe I will aim for 182 or so and call it a day.
> 
> Thanks for this inspirational fitness side of this thread. Many years ago I was a masters swimming program, swimming with a coach and a club.
> 
> I would suggest swimming as an alternate form of exercise for anyone who enjoys it. However, it is important to have coaching to become efficient in the water and stroke correction to avoid potential hazards...especially shoulder problems. If you don't mind the loneliness of it, water sloshing around in your ears for (possibly) hours later and smelling like a brillo pad, it is just perfect as it is non-impact and great for cardio and strengthening. Also, you sweat into the pool...not into your clothes. Lastly, it is not that expensive in the long "run" (ooops...the long "swim")
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


Thanks Dave.

Yes swimming is a fantastic way to get full body and cardio exercise with low impact to joints. The gym I use has a salt water pool. Actually it has pretty much everything I could ask for.

And yes, it's clear to me that not everybody at a particular height should weigh the same. Honestly, if I looked the way I would like to look I'd probably be 195~200 Lbs, but I'm VERY careful about not back sliding on the weight so packing on muscle is a slow and time consuming activity for me.

That's ok though. For me, this is not a series of short term targets. I'm in this for life.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Greco and Milkman, great job on getting and maintaining where you are. It ain't easy so kudos are in order.


----------



## greco

Jim DaddyO said:


> Greco and Milkman, great job on getting and maintaining where you are. It ain't easy so kudos are in order.


Jim DaddyO...Thanks for the kudos, but I haven't been swimming in years. However, I dropped my weight from about 215 to the present ~185 and I am pleased with that. I have been at that weight for quite a while.

Milkman deserves the majority of the hard-earned kudos for dietary changes, getting himself into shape along with his loss of weight. My level of fitness...nothing to be proud of. However, I have no significant aches/pains and I feel very, very fortunate.

Cheers

Dave


----------



## Milkman

greco said:


> Jim DaddyO...Thanks for the kudos, but I haven't been swimming in years. However, I dropped my weight from about 215 to the present ~185 and I am pleased with that. I have been at that weight for quite a while.
> 
> Milkman deserves the majority of the hard-earned kudos for dietary changes, getting himself into shape along with his loss of weight. My level of fitness...nothing to be proud of. However, I have no significant aches/pains and I feel very, very fortunate.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


Thanks Dave, but I'm not looking for a pat on the back. It's just something that I've become sort of passionate about and I reallly enjoy talking about it.

My only regret is that I didn't do something like this decades ago. Doing it at 51 (well 49 when I started) means I have to work twice as hard as the young 'uns to get anywhere near the same results.

Anyway, it has become the time of day that I look forward to. My hour and a half at the gym is not pennance, punishment, atonement or anything negative.

It is literally my reward for a hard days work and my private time to unwind, contemplate and listen to music.

In about two hours I'll be soaked in sweat.


----------



## greco

Milkman said:


> Thanks Dave, but I'm not looking for a pat on the back.


You might not be looking for it, but I'm giving it. We all know how much effort YOU have put into this during the past ~2 years and many of us recognize how mentally and physically tough it can be to achieve this. 

I still remember the empty/sick feeling I had in my stomach when the swimming coach would say "Tonight, we are doing the 1500 meter ("metric mile")" .... 200 & 400 meter swims were my most comfortable/enjoyable distances. 

Cheers

Dave


----------



## smorgdonkey

greco said:


> You might not be looking for it, but I'm giving it. We all know how much effort YOU have put into this during the past ~2 years and many of us recognize how mentally and physically tough it can be to achieve this.


True.

Given all of my effort that I put into fitness, it was all from inspiration. Where the inspiration came from I have no idea. What 10 year old kid asks for weights? I bet it is more common now than it was in the late '70s when I asked for weights.

I guess my point is that just random inspiration happens and having that drive me is easy (though a low odds way to get fit) compared to deciding to do it after adulthood and never being involved in it - moreover, starting from a position of unfit is much more difficult.

Kudos to you Milkman, even though you aren't asking for it/don't want it. The point is that you have discovered that it makes so many things better and you continue to do it for you and the people who you care about.

...and I just got in from repeating the power walk that I did last night. I did a couple of light resistance training sessions already and I plan on doing one more this evening before I am done for the day. I really thought that since I was careful this weekend and was somewhat active that I would be a bit lighter but still 227 today!! I'll do some big compound exercises tomorrow to really get the metabolism charged up.


----------



## Milkman

Thanks guys.

I just got home from the gym. Today was cardio, legs, core.

Legs were completely off the radar to me when I started doing this. I guess I figured I'd just wear nice pants, LOL.

But, I was advised as to how major the impact is to your overall health when you develop the largest muscles in your body.

Muscle needs energy so every ounce of muscle you add makes it easier to lose weight. As anyone can plainly tell, I'm no expert, but I have access to lots and lots of them.


----------



## sneakypete

Mine is not an inspirational story nor a testimonial...I started working out in my very early `20`s, over 30 years ago now...not a body builder just trying to keep what I have in relatively good condition. Never allowed myself to get overweight, played a lot of sports as a youngster and was never the biggest guy on any team I was a member of...pretty average I guess. Working out is as much a part of my life as eating is, and I don`t go to a gym, it is not necessary to do so to stay in condition, I have a routine that I have followed over the decades, my body has changed so I have altered the number of exercises in the sets I do, used to be able to do 50 to 75 push-ups at a time, now I do 12 sets of 25 at a time, 2 to 4 times a week depending on how I feel, I have learned how far to push my body without causing myself injury...which is what happened and how I learned I couldn`t do a set of 75 push-ups anymore, felt something give in a shoulder one day and had to lay off push-ups for between a year to 18 months and when I started doing them again, I figured out how many to do in a set without overdoing it yet still feeling good after doing them, and thats how I feel about exercising, the more I do the better I feel, the better I feel the more I wanna do...it`s a circle but in a good way. I cycle for cardio and my legs, this Japanese city doesn`t get really cold in winter...not Winnipeg cold, more like Vancouver cold and snow doesn`t accumulate so even when we get the white stuff, it doesn`t stay long...couple of days and it melts away since the ground does not freeze. So I am able to cycle year round. I don`t like the gym atmosphere, I prefer to work out on my own and am motivated to do so, have been for over 30 years now. I`m right where I should be for my height. I have a series of exercises I repeat and it takes me between 2 to 3 hours to go through them all. So my story is kind of boring, no before and after photos to show, not really into posing for cameras, I don`t play out with my guitars, just a couch player when I play which hasn`t been very much since March 11th of 2010, same goes for my painting, drawing and photography...just things I do for myself. So any members who are thinking about getting into shape just need to start, if a gym works for you then do that or find a work out buddy, thats how I started, a friend had weights and we worked out together. My wife and I used to watch a TV show over here from Canada called Taking it Off....came from Edmonton I think at least most of the stories came from there it seemed, and I noticed when I was back home recently how many Canadians in and around the Montreal area looked like they eat too much and don`t exercise enough; just start doing it, set a goal of say 3 months of working out and see what the results are, set spring as the time when you`ll finally fit into that Speedo you`ve had in your drawer for years...for the record, I don`t wear Speedos and my friends thank me for it. Drop a movie into a player and watch it during a workout...or watch a game, though it won`t be hockey this year it seems and the CFL is over but theres still the NFL or NBA. The web is full of great suggestions on how to get started and finding the exercise you want. The journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single step.


----------



## Milkman

Thanks Pete. Yes, the first step is the most important.

Yours is an important post in this thread because it reminds people that there are many ways to get yourself into better condition.

I choose the gym because I'm comfortable in that environment. For any particular exercise, there are five or six machines or aparati to do it. It's convenient and efficient for me.

I know lots of people who just don't like the environment. As you have indicated, you can improve your fitness without spending a minute in the gym or a dime on equipment.

Cardio can be done in many ways. As far as toning muscle, I have yet to see something that works better than push ups, sit ups et cetera.

We tend to have discussions about what works better than what, but the real trick is finding out what works best for YOU.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Yesterday I had 3 weight training sessions (light/moderate weights with many reps but in quite short spans of time) and 2 walks of 40 minutes or so each (my guess is about 4 to 4.5 km) and this morning walked to work at 6:45 am (5.2 km) in 45 minutes. I did a stint in the weight room and then walked home (yes, that's another 5.2 km).

That's how you lose 5 pounds in a day.


----------



## smorgdonkey

smorgdonkey said:


> (my guess is about 4 to 4.5 km)


I just biked it in 0 degrees C to measure it and the bike odometer showed 4.62 km. I wanted to have the numbers for reference anyway so...

Maybe I'll drive the car to work tomorrow. HA!


----------



## Milkman

Awesome.

For me, today's workout will be cardio, chest, core.

The cardio is hill climbing on an elliptical. That's 22 minutes. By 6 minutes the sweat starts. By the time I finish I have to towel dry the machine and floor.

For chest, I start with 60 unassisted dips.

Then it's cable cross (like a bench press, but safer) with about 160 lbs - 4 sets of 10 reps
Then peck flies on a hammer strength machine with 225 lbs - 4 sets of 10 reps
Then another chest press, also a hammer strength cable machine. 125 lbs 4 sets of 10 reps.

For core, I'll do 60 sit-ups on an inclined bench, then 30 leg raises on an apparatus.

Then I'll finish with 60 more unassisted dips, stretching, shower, home.

This will take around 1.5 hours.


----------



## smorgdonkey

That's a major workout!!

...and the 60 dips!!sigiifa


----------



## Milkman

smorgdonkey said:


> That's a major workout!!
> 
> ...and the 60 dips!!sigiifa


That's a normal chest day.

The dips are killer. I do 20, little rest, 20, rest, 20.

The last five are tough.


----------



## smorgdonkey

I was thinking that it was a marathon set of 60...but 20-20-20 is still crazy and I am sure that quite a few people have the dental work to prove it!

I walked about 8 km yesterday and did very light weights with lots of reps.

Today I did some speed walking on a treadmill and some heavy weights. There is a gym at my work that I can pop into every break and hammer out a set - it is my common practice!


----------



## mhammer

I'm sedentary enough that my mother probably wondered if she was carrying a stillborn when she had me. So I'm not going to be your go-to person for fitness tips.

I will say, however, that I have two reasonably solid weightloss tips. First, set a curfew for eating. We tend to consume a lot of "invisible food" after 7PM or so. That is food we don't really need or are hungry for but which simply accompanies the activities we engage in later in the day...many of which are sedentary. Allow yourself to eat what you want, but cut yourself off at some designated point in the evening, and you'll easily reduce total food consumption by 10% or more. I realize this is easier for asome folks to do than others, given their timetable, work, etc.

The second tip is to reduce your cheese intake. I had to, once I realized Ihad become lactose intolerant, and 10lbs simply melted away without any additional changes in diet or exercise. A great many cheeses are nearly a third butterfat. None of us would eat a steak with that much marbling yet we down mountains of fat in the form of cheese. I remember a clinical nutritionist I had to go see told us that most Canadians get the lion's share of their fat intake from cheese. So, go without for a bit, and see where that takes you. You don't have to swear off it, just reduce.


----------



## bw66

mhammer said:


> The second tip is to reduce your cheese intake.


Noooooooooooooooooo!!!


----------



## jimsz

After several hockey injuries in a row a few years back, I dropped out to heal and began putting on the weight so I started looking for an easy exercise program that included good eating habits that I could do at home without having to buy equipment. I found it with P90X, but I had to buy a few hand weights and a pullup bar, which seemed like peanuts compared to most exercise equipment. I'm now approaching mid fifties and have never been in better shape or healthier. My wife has been doing it too and she's literally got back her mid twenties body. Yum.


----------



## smorgdonkey

jimsz said:


> P90X,


Yes...that's a dandy. I would guess that only 10% or so of people who decide to try it have the fortitude to tough it out for the full 90 days though. Intense! Man do you feel great when you are done though.


Oh...and regarding cheese...milk is a hormone & nutrition delivery system biologically engineered to triple the weight of an infant bovine in a matter of months. Cheese is concentrated milk - still the glandular extract of another species. It's addictive because it has a lot of fat in it, salt, and hormones. People get high from it (not like recreational drug high).


----------



## jimsz

smorgdonkey said:


> Yes...that's a dandy. I would guess that only 10% or so of people who decide to try it have the fortitude to tough it out for the full 90 days though. Intense! Man do you feel great when you are done though.


It was very tough the first few weeks, but Tony encourages you to go at your own pace and work your way up. I can follow along now to everything they do and have made it part of my regularly scheduled program. When you start looking like Tony and can do pretty much anything, you don't ever want to give that up. The time it takes each day is miniscule to the huge benefits it provides.


----------



## Milkman

I have friends who do P90X or other similar systems. Like anything they work if you follow through.

I just made an appointment for my first therapeutic message. I go Monday evening.

This will be a first for me.

Time spent working out is time well invested.


----------



## blam

Milkman said:


> Awesome.
> 
> For me, today's workout will be cardio, chest, core.
> 
> The cardio is hill climbing on an elliptical. That's 22 minutes. By 6 minutes the sweat starts. By the time I finish I have to towel dry the machine and floor.
> 
> For chest, I start with 60 unassisted dips.
> 
> Then it's cable cross (like a bench press, but safer) with about 160 lbs - 4 sets of 10 reps
> Then peck flies on a hammer strength machine with 225 lbs - 4 sets of 10 reps
> Then another chest press, also a hammer strength cable machine. 125 lbs 4 sets of 10 reps.
> 
> For core, I'll do 60 sit-ups on an inclined bench, then 30 leg raises on an apparatus.
> 
> Then I'll finish with 60 more unassisted dips, stretching, shower, home.
> 
> This will take around 1.5 hours.


I was never a fan of cable presses. My chest day is:

Flat bench dumb bell presses
4 sets. 
Usually 45lbs/arm 12-14 reps for a warm up.
Then 50, 55, 60. 12, 10 and 6-8 reps respectively. Sometimes a 5th set at 60 if I feel good.

Incline bench dumb bell press
3 sets, 35, 40, 45. 12-10-8 respectively

Decline bench press
3 sets, 95 lbs, 115, 135 lbs. 

Then incline dumbbell flies.
3 sets, 20, 20, 25

By the end of this I can barely wash my hands. Approx. 45-60 min. 

Machines eliminate stabilizer muscles. Free weights have always given me a better work out. I leave the dips for arm day and do max reps. usually ~35, 25, then 10-15 reps.


----------



## jimsz

Milkman said:


> I have friends who do P90X or other similar systems. Like anything they work if you follow through.


Exactly, and what I really like about it is how easy it is to follow. Simply pop in one of the dozen videos on a given day and follow along, no fuss, no muss. It's like having a personal trainer right in your living room.


----------



## smorgdonkey

I'm still hammering it. Some of my 5 pounds down was water weight but I have caught up to a true 5 pound loss since then. I can feel all of my muscles are a lot more conditioned so I think I am ready for another push and some loss. I took a day away from extra (non-work) activity today but stayed the course on food intake. Back to intensity tomorrow.


----------



## smorgdonkey

220 pounds today.


----------



## Milkman

Are you winning?

What's your target?

I had a great weekend. I love my weekend workouts, because I can do it early in the mornings.

Tonight is my night off. I have to force myself to stay away one day a week.


----------



## greco

I'm excited as I'm planning on getting a (used) mountain bike for the local trails...just sharing. 
I need to be more active...for sure!!

Cheers

Dave


----------



## smorgdonkey

I had said 10 pounds by Christmas but then I got mad and said 15 pounds by Christmas. It is doable since my muscles are really revving now and I am having no diet struggles.

I am not sure if I will get there by Christmas but I will give it a really good go.


----------



## smorgdonkey

greco said:


> I'm excited as I'm planning on getting a (used) mountain bike for the local trails...just sharing.
> I need to be more active...for sure!!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


This looks like a steal to me...
http://kitchener.kijiji.ca/c-buy-an...IPE-80-WITH-JUDY-ROCK-SHOX-W0QQAdIdZ432112267

...even if you spent another $200 having a full workover. That said, seeing in person tells so much more than pictures.


----------



## greco

smorgdonkey said:


> This looks like a steal to me...
> http://kitchener.kijiji.ca/c-buy-an...IPE-80-WITH-JUDY-ROCK-SHOX-W0QQAdIdZ432112267
> 
> ...even if you spent another $200 having a full workover. That said, seeing in person tells so much more than pictures.


Thanks smorgdonkey. My brother won a mountain bike and never used it, so I am looking at it as a possibility.

As a newbie to bikes, this equipment is very complicated ...probably very similar to someone trying to sort out their first guitar and amp.

Cheers

Dave


----------



## Milkman

greco said:


> I'm excited as I'm planning on getting a (used) mountain bike for the local trails...just sharing.
> I need to be more active...for sure!!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave



Right on brother.

Good luck. 

When I first started going to the gym, I bought a nice (for me) mountain bike, just as a sort of insurance policy in case I grew bored with the gym.

I figured that was a forgone conclusion, as I was going hard and often and I expected to get bored at some point.

Mine is a Trek, and I think it was around $800. Very nice bike and much better than any I had ever had.

As it turns out, at least so far, I haven't needed it. I loaned it to one of my daughters because she needed one.

We have beautiful trails here in Brantford.

I hope you enjoy yours. They can help you work wonders without really feeling like you're working.


----------



## Milkman

smorgdonkey said:


> I had said 10 pounds by Christmas but then I got mad and said 15 pounds by Christmas. It is doable since my muscles are really revving now and I am having no diet struggles.
> 
> I am not sure if I will get there by Christmas but I will give it a really good go.


It can be done. You know it.

and, it can be done without harmful dieting or any other counter productive activities.

My diet before I started worrying about it, was so appalling that finding opportunities for improvement was simple. Just by cutting out really obvious crap I dropped approximately 50 lbs in 6 months.

Good luck!


----------



## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> It can be done. You know it.
> 
> and, it can be done without harmful dieting or any other counter productive activities.


For sure. I can't even get mildly interested in strange diets. I know that food is nutrients and fuel & that without the proper intake that tissues can be damaged so no freaky stuff for me...just work and work.
:sport-smiley-002:

That's me doing the George Foreman to fat.


----------



## greco

Milkman said:


> ................They can help you work wonders without really feeling like you're working.


Thanks Milkman.

I am looking forward to it. This bike was not an expensive bike when new, but it has hardly been used. If I end up getting into cycling seriously, I will get something nice at our local bike shop. 

Cheers

Dave


----------



## smorgdonkey

greco said:


> This bike was not an expensive bike when new, but it has hardly been used.


It will be more than enough for you to see if biking is your thing.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Yesterday I did 2 loose sets of 10 (not perfectr form) pull-ups at 220 pounds.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Lost around 4 to 5 lbs since this started. Right on target of about 1 lb/wk. Just cutting back on the carbs.


----------



## Milkman

Keep banging away man.

Last night was cardio / Back / Core. Tonight will be cardio / legs / core.

Onward.


----------



## Milkman

Jim DaddyO said:


> Lost around 4 to 5 lbs since this started. Right on target of about 1 lb/wk. Just cutting back on the carbs.


It was surprising to me how simple it was to drop weight. Simple, but not easy if you take my meaning.

Knowing what has to be done and doing it are distinctly different.

Good on ya man!


----------



## smorgdonkey

I weighed in at 218 this morning.

On Nov. 23 I weighed 227. I was expecting to just 'take it easy' and have a slow controlled weight loss and after a weekend of not indulging and being more active I found myself feeling great but very pissed off that I didn't lose any weight at all & still weighed 227 on Nov 26. 

That sucked because I had already I upped my goal to 15 pounds by Christmas on Nov 25...the day that I had my last icy cold cola drink (the full sugar kind).

Since then it has been no pop at all - I never drank any for years so I don't know why I feel so attracted to it now.
Not one potato chip - how I love the cruchy salty sinful bvstvrds.
Smaller portions.
This week my battle is to win the 'do not eat after 8pm' war.

Anyway, 9 pounds so far. I'm good to go. I walked about 7 or 8 km today and I only did some very light weights for shoulders and what we used to call a 'feeder workout' for chest as tomorrow the chest will get bombed with 50 pound dumbell flyes. 

Do what you can guys. I'm absolutely jacked. Had I known that I could get much of the pain that I was experiencing to just dissipate by getting going, I would have done so earlier. I was still doing some weights and some walking but I wasn't doing the walking as intensely nor was I doing the distance that I am doing. My resistance training was not focused either. That video really put me back on track.


----------



## keto

Jim DaddyO said:


> Lost around 4 to 5 lbs since this started. Right on target of about 1 lb/wk. Just cutting back on the carbs.


Yep, I did my usual thing around the same time - stopped drinking pop (I LOVE PEPSI OMG I LOVE PEPSI), cut down very modestly on the snacks (I have a fairly high metabolism and have to feed the machine regularly), and don't fill my face at supper, just eat until reasonably satisfied. Just doing that is worth a pound or 2 a week for me. No extra exercise (in fact, a little less than usual), no monitoring *what* I eat, just how much.

Once a week I have a Pepsi and as much food and snax as I freaking well want. That keeps me satisfied, yet doesn't derail the overall process.


----------



## Milkman

Pop and chips were among the first of the "low hanging fruit" I took care of. When your diet is as bad as mine was, improvements are very easy to identify.

My advice, for what it's worth is to be encouraged by the weight loss, but not to focus too strongly on short term targets and goals.

Everybody is wired diferently but for me, I had to draw a line in the sand and decide that from this day forward, exercise and nutrition would be a part of my life. I see this as a lifelong trend oriented activity.

A good analogy might be to compare it to your RRSPs. Most financial experts will tell you to look at the long term trends and not day to day fluctuations.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Smorg, Keto, and Milk....awesome progress!!! WTG. I know what it is like too with pop and chips ( I love pepsi too). Down from a couple of pop a day to maybe 2 a week. Chips?? PC loads of jalepeno popper, I drool just thinking about it, have cut back on them too (by not buying them, if they are in the house I can't leave them alone). Sugar has to be one of the most addicting things on the planet, though I am 7 months without a cigarette and that is a toughie too. I like the idea of no eating after 8, going to have to try that one. I am pretty sedentary once the cold weather comes, a bit hard to get around with the buggered knee. I am going to have to address that too. Now at 225, started at 230 lb, trying to get to my original weight, 8 lbs, 10 oz....lol (I will be OK at around 200)


----------



## smorgdonkey

Jim DaddyO said:


> Now at 225, started at 230 lb, trying to get to my original weight, 8 lbs, 10 oz....lol (I will be OK at around 200)


Good that you are going in the right direction!


...and thanks for the laugh regarding your 'original weight'. That was a great start to the day!


----------



## blam

Man. Some of you are just melting the fat away. Good on you!!!! It's taken me 4 months to lose 5 lbs!!!! This is with a reduced diet and exercise. My body is desperately holding onto these extra pounds.


----------



## sulphur

Great progress guys! Thanks for the good laugh Jim!

Eating in the evening is a killer, that stays with you, as you don't get the chance to burn it off.


----------



## Milkman

Something to consider is that the lower your body fat content, the more calories you require to maintain your weight.
Muscle burns more calories than fat.

It's all very much a positive spiral. 

I don't worry about having a snack after 8:00 PM. He'll I often don't get to eat dinner until 9:00.

But, I know I'll be in the gym the next day and as I've said, I look at the longer term / big picture.


----------



## smorgdonkey

blam said:


> Man. Some of you are just melting the fat away. Good on you!!!! It's taken me 4 months to lose 5 lbs!!!! This is with a reduced diet and exercise. My body is desperately holding onto these extra pounds.


One thing to remember that if you restrict your food intake too much it can actually slow your weight loss down. Try to have small portions every time you eat but also don't go too long without eating - 3 hours and 20 minutes is somewhat of a 'magic time frame' (that is my own terminology) to keep your body from going into preservation mode.

For me, it is somewhat easy because I have exercised for so long and my body responds really fast. With the base of muscle that I have, all I need to do is get the muscles going and they burn off energy. Really pushing my level of activity is accelerating my results but the diet aspect is what takes things to aniother level. Also, there have been many times in my life during which I have trained as hard/intensely as professional athletes so when I am doing moderate stuff for me, many people think I am already over the edge. 

For example: 
Today's food intake and exercise:
6:30 am-mini wheats with almond milk + multivitamin and glucosamine
7:10 am-walk 2.5 km
7:30 am-eat half of a granola bar
10:45 am-light warm up set of chest flyes then eat a whole wheat pita with hummus, quinoa and leafy greens
1:50 pm-a warm up set of chest flyes then 2 sets of chest flyes with 50 pound dumbells
2:10pm -a whole wheat pita with hummus, quinoa and leafy greens
4:10 pm-walk 5.2 km (a couple of short jogs in there)
5:30 pm-multigrain pasta + glucosamine

I'll probably do some high speed bench press reps later on and not to mention my work can be very physical as well.

This is my typical day so it isn't hard to see how I am down 10 pounds already. You don't usually start a routine that is at this level but because I had maintained a level of activity even as I went through my period of inactivity I could start well after what a beginner routine would be. 

The typical way is to start slow and add to your routine. Sometimes the routine doesn't have to get much longer, it just has to increase in intensity. The body can adapt quite quickly so there is a need to do different things and change things up too. 

My diet seems extreme to many people because I choose not to eat animal products most of the time and as far as the activity goes, most people don't do anything so it's hard to grasp their take on that. Most people want to go home and lay on the couch after a day of work and so do I sometimes but most good things in life aren't easy & the fact is that if most people could force themselves to do something, they would enjoy it after they got going (not just that particular day but ongoibng as well).


----------



## blam

smorg.

yeah, I am well aware of that. this is not my first rodeo. a few years ago I ballooned up to about 20lbs over my ideal weight and went on a very strict and clean diet. I was able to shed that off in 3 months without any exercise.

this time around, it's just not working for me.


----------



## smorgdonkey

blam said:


> this time around, it's just not working for me.


I see. 

Sometimes that associated decline in metabolism that comes along with advancing age can really make a huge difference. I remember watching an old video of Ali and he was saying something like "I remember that the weight used to melt right off of me" and he was lamenting how hard it was to lose now that he was older.

You could really benefit from some basic compound exercises in the weight room - well, almost everyone could.


----------



## Milkman

Cardio, cardio, cardio.

Yes, it becomes increasingly difficult to build muscle and shed fat as you get older.

I try to think of myself as a fitness Amish. If everyone else has to workout at a certain level, I have to work half again as hard.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> Cardio, cardio, cardio.


...and if you build some muscle, the cardio is even more effective at burning off the fat.

I may have to ice my knee today - first time in a while that I will have had to do that. At least I don't look at it as a stop sign any more.


----------



## Milkman

Sorry to hear about the knee.

Ice and then heat works for me.

Today was cardio, back, core.

Tomorrow is my day off and I have a massage scheduled at 5:30 PM. I'm not sure if this is self indulgent, decadent et cetera, but it's a way to force myself to take a day off from the gym and it feels good.

My weight is dead stable at 186 lbs.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> Sorry to hear about the knee.
> 
> Ice and then heat works for me.
> 
> Today was cardio, back, core.
> 
> Tomorrow is my day off and I have a massage scheduled at 5:30 PM. I'm not sure if this is self indulgent, decadent et cetera, but it's a way to force myself to take a day off from the gym and it feels good.
> 
> My weight is dead stable at 186 lbs.


The knee will be fine.

I can't do the massage - ticklish like you wouldn't believe. It is good for tissue though...I just can't have one.

My weight is down since my post a few days ago. 216 pounds now. Everything is dead on schedule.


----------



## Milkman

smorgdonkey said:


> The knee will be fine.
> 
> I can't do the massage - ticklish like you wouldn't believe. It is good for tissue though...I just can't have one.
> 
> My weight is down since my post a few days ago. 216 pounds now. Everything is dead on schedule.


Good to hear man. Keep truckin.

I think this kind of massage is unlikely to feel ticklish though.

It's a pretty deep tissue rub down.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> It's a pretty deep tissue rub down.


I've heard about those - many elite athletes used to do it as muscle maintenance (maybe they still do). There would have to be no light contact at all for me though - I need heavy handedness right from 'go'. Anyway, enjoy. I bet a sauna would feel nice afterward.


----------



## vasthorizon

I'm 5feet 9inches and I weighed 270 pounds April 2012 with a waist-line of 45.

I started working out and now I'm at 188 pounds with muscle and a waistline of 32 - no fancy diet or whatever.
Just calories in < calories out.

It works.


----------



## smorgdonkey

vasthorizon said:


> I'm 5feet 9inches and I weighed 270 pounds April 2012 with a waist-line of 45.
> 
> I started working out and now I'm at 188 pounds with muscle and a waistline of 32 - no fancy diet or whatever.
> Just calories in < calories out.
> 
> It works.


You are correct. I used to be able to just do 'calories in<calories out' and eat anything I wanted but I can't go forever like I used to and I have to work too often so I have to approach it with a multi-faceted plan now including diet, planned rest, 'budgeting' energy, and so on. 

270 to 188 is one major transformation!!

I'm a shade over 6 feet tall and people quite regularly guess my weight at 185 or 190 but I am still 216. It's that old thing about muscle weighing more than fat - muscle is just so much more dense.


----------



## blam

Funny you guys push cardio. I ran 100kms in the month of August and lost 0 pounds. 

I was originally 155lbs at the start of August. In currently 147 lbs. 7 more pounds and ill be quite happy.


----------



## Milkman

vasthorizon said:


> I'm 5feet 9inches and I weighed 270 pounds April 2012 with a waist-line of 45.
> 
> I started working out and now I'm at 188 pounds with muscle and a waistline of 32 - no fancy diet or whatever.
> Just calories in < calories out.
> 
> It works.


Dude, you lost 82 lbs in 8 months?


That's impressive. What do you do for exercise?


----------



## vasthorizon

Milkman said:


> Dude, you lost 82 lbs in 8 months?
> 
> 
> That's impressive. What do you do for exercise?


Yes, sir. I basically cut everything off except for healthy food - and I do mean EVERYTHING.
High protein, low fat, and low carb diet. And WATERMELONS for breakfast. Vegetables are
also key. I haven't touched anything unhealthy since April.

I also adopted "Meatless Mondays" and "Tuna Thursdays".

I learned to read labels and the nutrition facts and did not eat out at all. I bring packed
food everywhere I go.

For workouts, I go with high rep and low-intensity. Cardio, cardio, cardio. I run 3 - 5 miles a day everyday.
I go to the gym 6 days a week for 1.5 hours and focus on majour muscle groups. I shadow boxed too.


----------



## greco

vasthorizon said:


> I'm 5feet 9inches and I weighed 270 pounds April 2012 with a waist-line of 45.
> 
> I started working out and now I'm at 188 pounds with muscle and a waistline of 32 - no fancy diet or whatever.
> Just calories in < calories out.
> 
> It works.


Hi Vast...great to see a post from you! Congratulations on what you have achieved!

Please say Hello and give my best regards and Seasons Greetings to your family. 

Hope all is going well.

Cheers

Dave


----------



## vasthorizon

Sending you a PM, Dave!


----------



## vasthorizon

Just a comparison, here's how I looked before. The next picture is how I looked 2 months ago at 210 pounds.
I have yet to take a photo, but I will once I hit my target weight of 160.

http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr124/vasthorizon123/564764_341227489274398_1191722482_n.jpg

http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr124/vasthorizon123/2012-10-30152719.jpg


----------



## Milkman

vasthorizon said:


> Yes, sir. I basically cut everything off except for healthy food - and I do mean EVERYTHING.
> High protein, low fat, and low carb diet. And WATERMELONS for breakfast. Vegetables are
> also key. I haven't touched anything unhealthy since April.
> 
> I also adopted "Meatless Mondays" and "Tuna Thursdays".
> 
> I learned to read labels and the nutrition facts and did not eat out at all. I bring packed
> food everywhere I go.
> 
> For workouts, I go with high rep and low-intensity. Cardio, cardio, cardio. I run 3 - 5 miles a day everyday.
> I go to the gym 6 days a week for 1.5 hours and focus on majour muscle groups. I shadow boxed too.


it's surprising how similar our lives have changed. Hat's off to you man.

Best of luck with the new life.


----------



## vasthorizon

Milkman said:


> it's surprising how similar our lives have changed. Hat's off to you man.
> 
> Best of luck with the new life.


It has definitely changed my life - thanks to the girl who dumped me. Haha! Kidding!

And to you too, Milkman!


----------



## 10409




----------



## smorgdonkey

vasthorizon said:


> no fancy diet or whatever.





vasthorizon said:


> Yes, sir. I basically cut everything off except for healthy food - and I do mean EVERYTHING.
> High protein, low fat, and low carb diet. And WATERMELONS for breakfast. Vegetables are
> also key. I haven't touched anything unhealthy since April.
> 
> I also adopted "Meatless Mondays" and "Tuna Thursdays".
> 
> I learned to read labels and the nutrition facts and did not eat out at all. I bring packed
> food everywhere I go.


Dude...that IS a fancy diet. I think I know what you mean though...no 'commercial' or fad diet. Your diet would definitely be considered 'far out' to many. I even had a person say to me once when discussing food that is not good to consume: "the government wouldn't allow it to be available for purchase if it was dangerous"

...and at that I surrendered to his superior intellect.

Great transformation!


----------



## Milkman

vasthorizon said:


> Just a comparison, here's how I looked before. The next picture is how I looked 2 months ago at 210 pounds.
> I have yet to take a photo, but I will once I hit my target weight of 160.
> 
> http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr124/vasthorizon123/564764_341227489274398_1191722482_n.jpg
> 
> http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr124/vasthorizon123/2012-10-30152719.jpg


That's a great accomplishment, and an investment in your life and future.

Clearly I don't have to tell you the impact this is having on your life. Forget about all the physical benefits.

The emotional impact on you in terms of self image, confidence and mental alertness is HUGE.

Your path, although more recent, is remarkably similar to mine. It's possible and it's worth doing, but as you know well, it requires a life change. Making such a transformation is not a short term goal.

If the stimulus was getting dumped, that hurts, but there's no revenge better than success. How's she going to feel when she sees a slim trim you with a new lover on your arm?

Again, congrats!


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Wtg Vast, you look great


----------



## smorgdonkey

Jim DaddyO said:


> Wtg Vast, you look great


...and his 'horizon' isn't so vast anymore.


----------



## Roryfan

smorgdonkey said:


> ...and his 'horizon' isn't so vast anymore.


I bet his GF would say that it looks bigger since he lost the weight.:thanks5qx:


----------



## Diablo

Wow,some great stories here.
im not knocking exercise as I think it would be a part of everyone's lifestyle to some extent or another, but from my experience, diet is the single biggest factor on a persons appearance.

ive recently been tweaking my diet against everything I've been told my whole life...that is, to be less afraid of fat and more afraid of sugars and carbs. And I have to say, it does work....lots of protein, lots of certain types of veg, very little sugar, carbs, refined foods etc. I lost about 10lbs in a month. But it wasn't easy. I realized I truly am addicted to carbs, like nothing else. I have never been much of a meat eater, so taking in all that protein was very hard for me. And contrary to all the promises that " you will never be hungry", I was....like I'd never been before actually...think vampire in a blood bank, hungry. Plus, when you start thinking about it, you see how much our modern diets revolve around having carbs. Really hard to avoid them if you eat out. Even harder to avoid carbs when your wife is a vegetarian.

so I got out of ketosis for awhile, but feel at least that I can have a new more moderate approach to my diet...i'll skip the bread and desert whenever I can. And I'll get back into ketosis again after the holidays, and join a gym again in the summer after we move (moving to another part of the province, so had to hold off starting a new membership).


----------



## Diablo

greco said:


> I'm excited as I'm planning on getting a (used) mountain bike for the local trails...just sharing.
> I need to be more active...for sure!!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


Fwiw, I got rid of my mountain bike for a hybrid bIke instead...looks similar, but rides easier and more comfortably for us bigger more mature guys that likely aren't jumping over boulders at this point in our lives, and don't need the cool looking suspensions that make the bike slower and less pleasurable when we take it on the roads. I'd highly recommend at least looking at some in that category.


----------



## sulphur

Great transformation vasthorizon!

Hey Diablo, are there any brands of bikes to look out for/avoid?
I've been meaning to pick one up, but maybe because I'm clueless about them, I've been avoiding it.
I'd thought about a trail bike, like Dave is, but now I'm not sure after your post.
I'd like to take it off road, on the trails in the bush, so a skinny tire unit just won't do.

I'd be interested in anyones input that have tried various brands, or styles.


----------



## Milkman

sulphur said:


> Great transformation vasthorizon!
> 
> Hey Diablo, are there any brands of bikes to look out for/avoid?
> I've been meaning to pick one up, but maybe because I'm clueless about them, I've been avoiding it.
> I'd thought about a trail bike, like Dave is, but now I'm not sure after your post.
> I'd like to take it off road, on the trails in the bush, so a skinny tire unit just won't do.
> 
> I'd be interested in anyones input that have tried various brands, or styles.


If you intend to take it on trails I'd recommend a mountain bike. Hybrids are great because they do streets and trails pretty well, but any time you hit loose gravel or other conditions you see on most trails, mountain bike tires are much more sure footed.

I guess it comes down to how often you intend to ride in the city. Where I live that's really counterproductive to getting healthy because you're sucking in exhaust fumes and cars don't always respect bikes.

As for brands, I like my Trek. My son has a Giant and Kona and both are exellent.


----------



## Milkman

Today I turn 52. It's always a good time to look in the mirror and do a little assesment. I can honestly say I'm in better condition than I have ever been. At 18 I was thin, but not in shape. My metabolism protected me from myself until I reached around 30~35 and then I started to plump up.

I think I maxed out at age 49 at what must have been 240 lbs.

Now at 52, I'm 185 lbs (5'11" tall), and I'm not Charles Atlas, but I do actually have a six pack (definitely the first time in my life).

Tonight after work will be cardio, legs, core.

Life is good.

If all that sounded like bragging, I'm sorry. I'm happy and proud about what I've managed to do.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Happy Birthday!


----------



## sulphur

Happy Birthday Mike, be proud!


----------



## TA462

Milkman said:


> Today I turn 52. It's always a good time to look in the mirror and do a little assesment. I can honestly say I'm in better condition than I have ever been. At 18 I was thin, but not in shape. My metabolism protected me from myself until I reached around 30~35 and then I started to plump up.
> 
> I think I maxed out at age 49 at what must have been 240 lbs.
> 
> Now at 52, I'm 185 lbs (5'11" tall), and I'm not Charles Atlas, but I do actually have a six pack (definitely the first time in my life).
> 
> Tonight after work will be cardio, legs, core.
> 
> Life is good.
> 
> If all that sounded like bragging, I'm sorry. I'm happy and proud about what I've managed to do.


It ain't bragging and you should be proud of yourself.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

The Christmas season is upon us. Do not forget to set your scale back 10 pounds.


----------



## Milkman

LOL, Christmas is when I gain ground watching everyone pig out.

It's been a feeding frenzy at work already this week.

People are eating non stop.

And, thanks for the kind words.


----------



## sulphur

Jim DaddyO said:


> The Christmas season is upon us. Do not forget to set your scale back 10 pounds.


LOL! I'm stealing that!


----------



## guitarman2

Milkman said:


> Now at 52, I'm 185 lbs (5'11" tall), and I'm not Charles Atlas, but I do actually have a six pack (definitely the first time in my life).


I'm 52 as well. Although in the last couple of years I managed to shed unwanted pounds I always wondered if a six pack was doable at this age. Thank you for answering that for me.


----------



## Milkman

guitarman2 said:


> I'm 52 as well. Although in the last couple of years I managed to shed unwanted pounds I always wondered if a six pack was doable at this age. Thank you for answering that for me.


It depends on the day, LOL.

Sometimes it's a four pack and a tall boy.

It's possible but it takes a lot of crunches, leg raises, sit ups.....


----------



## smorgdonkey

I won't be setting my scale back for Christmas...I will be eating more than I should but I will also be scheduling in a few sets of push ups between meals.


----------



## Milkman

And, support from my wife and kids.

A juicer for my birthday!


----------



## Diablo

sulphur said:


> Great transformation vasthorizon!
> 
> Hey Diablo, are there any brands of bikes to look out for/avoid?
> I've been meaning to pick one up, but maybe because I'm clueless about them, I've been avoiding it.
> I'd thought about a trail bike, like Dave is, but now I'm not sure after your post.
> I'd like to take it off road, on the trails in the bush, so a skinny tire unit just won't do.
> 
> I'd be interested in anyones input that have tried various brands, or styles.


Well, the tires aren't THAT skinny on a hybrid, as say a road bike. But you might be more serious about trails than i am. Admittedly, trails for me are more like paths in a park.I just chuckle to myself everytime I see a little kid or doughy middle aged city slicker on a bike with knobbies, shock absorbers and springs every 18", that has never jumped anything more than a curb, just because they look badass. Mountain bikes for mountains, nt cities, IMO.

but take a look when you go bike shopping and chat with a sales rep about what might be best for your needs. I just threw it out as something to consider, b/c I think a lot of ppl would enjoy a hybrid more. But there clearly isn't 1 type of bike for everyone.
fwiw, I really like the Devinci bikes...as close to Canadian as you can get, in an era of Chinese bike suppliers. But I wouldn't get too hung up on brands. Try a bunch out until you get the right fit and value of features. As much as I liked the Devinci's, I ended up getting a lesser known Canadian brand, Louis Garneau for approx $700.


----------



## bw66

sulphur said:


> Great transformation vasthorizon!
> 
> Hey Diablo, are there any brands of bikes to look out for/avoid?
> I've been meaning to pick one up, but maybe because I'm clueless about them, I've been avoiding it.
> I'd thought about a trail bike, like Dave is, but now I'm not sure after your post.
> I'd like to take it off road, on the trails in the bush, so a skinny tire unit just won't do.
> 
> I'd be interested in anyones input that have tried various brands, or styles.


If you want to go off road, I would look at a mountain bike rather than a hybrid.

I picked up a Trek a few years ago and its been great. It was one of the lower-end alloy-framed models. Basically a good frame with somewhat lesser components. I'm not a "hard core" rider, but it has seen some use and landed hard a few times. All of the components have stood up to this point and I've been very happy. I think it was around $450. 

Much like guitars, you need to avoid all bikes sold in big box stores. Go to a proper sporting goods store and if they don't measure you up before making a recommendation - go somewhere else.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Last night I ran 4 km. It wasn't a blistering pace but it was about 25 minutes which isn't terrible for a non-runner. This is pretty big as I have not run that distance in years. Previous to this, I ran most of the span of the MacDonald Bridge on my way home from work one day last week (it is about 1.4 km or so and I ran perhaps three quarters of it). 

Anyway...it was a big thing for me and to have no significant leg pain this morning (the day after) is also significant. 

So this morning (about 14 hours later) I am going out to walk 4.5 km without having eaten anything. This is an old strategy and 'somewhat advanced' you could say. The theory being that your glycogen stores have depleted during sleep so your exercise will really burn off fat stores right away. Compounding that is the activity is revving the metabolism and also keeping muscle tissue a priority (to burn fat instead of lean tissue).

Now, I'm no doctor or anything but I have spent one heck of a long time reading about exercise and so on for years & years & years. This work out before eating thing is an old one that was a staple of Cybergenics when it was the 'in' method (perhaps 1990 or so).


----------



## Milkman

Awesome! Good to hear the knee isn't causing too much grief.

i had a fantastic workout this morning. I was in the gym before 8:00 AM and it was nice and empty.

i did a blistering 22 minutes of hill climbing on an elliptical followed by a series of leg strength activities, core and then stretching.

I feel great.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> Awesome! Good to hear the knee isn't causing too much grief.


A couple of days of a knee strap and some ice sessions and I was good to go! I just can't get complacent & say *I can't do it *- that's what got me last time.



Milkman said:


> i had a fantastic workout this morning. I was in the gym before 8:00 AM and it was nice and empty.
> 
> i did a blistering 22 minutes of hill climbing on an elliptical followed by a series of leg strength activities, core and then stretching.
> 
> I feel great.


It's funny telling non-workout people that sort of thing. They look at you like you just spoke Klingon to them and can't possibly understand how that could make you feel great.


----------



## Diablo

Interesting new article on exercise and weight loss.

Weight Loss Results Better With Aerobic Exercise - Health News - redOrbit


----------



## smorgdonkey

I can't argue with that article but I would say that it is knowledge that has always been assumed to a certain degree. Losing weight isn't always a positive thing and losing weight still holds a heavy stigma for many people.

For example: you could become less healthy and lose weight.

A woman could get a smaller waist but gain weight.

A man could lose his beer gut and gain weight.


There are simply too many variables and also too many things that aren't taken into account in that study (and most studies IMO)...like the aerobic people in that study did approx 12 miles of the running, walking, etc. How much time did the resistance training people actually train? Was it a similar amount iof time as the other group was walking? Did the people who did both start eating like horses (because that's what usually happens)?

Anyway, I enjoy studies and such but many of them conclude blanket statements which really can't apply without knowing more information. Some of them have the media conclude something for them when actually the data shows something different. The way that I look at it is that the knowledge is of some importance but most 'rules' have exceptions.

For some reason this has me thinking of the fat person in the gym 'propping' themselves up on the stairclimber machine with their arms while just pumping out reps with their legs...so, they are completely stationary with just their legs moving. That is not the way that machine works and that person's 20 minutes is not like 20 minutes done on that machine properly. It's much better than 20 minutes of tv and Twinkies but...

Ok...ramble off!


----------



## Milkman

If losing weight was my only goal, I would have saved myself a lot of money and trouble and simply dieted. That's about 70% of it in my mind.

I agree that aerobic exercise is very beneficial in improving one's health.

It's the cornerstone of my workouts. I go almost to the wall on the cardio every day. I've actually gone to the point of puking a couple of times.

Then the strength stuff.

Then core.

Then stretching.

I think the cardio I do for health.

The strength training is really for vanity.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> The strength training is really for vanity.


...and that's one of the areas where it brings results exceptionally well. Strength training stimulates the release of Human Growth Hormone which keeps the organs young and keeps your virility and so on. Since production of HGH wanes with age, strength training can keep you looking young by keeping the production of HGH up. 

Many strength trainers who look old have overdone it in the tanning beds and/or hit the 'roids.


----------



## Milkman

Woah.

The gym was stupid busy this morning. Lots of people I don't usually see, standing around in front of machines I want to use, chatting.

I moved somebody's towel and water bottle from a preacher bench after doing push-ups for a few minutes waiting for him to show up. 
He looked at me like I had moved his car. 

I understand circuit training, but in a busy public gym, you don't get to hold up machines and apparati in that way.

Socialize at the smoothie bar.

Anyway, I got er done.


----------



## smorgdonkey

I hate that stuff Milkman...the social net that is made at the gym. When I was going to a public facility it was really big, and could be quite busy, I think I had 3 conversations there aside from the times that I went there with other people and would talk to them after the workout was over during stretching. One of those conversations was me training a guy so I had to talk to him. I love women that are in shape but I never took the gym as the opportunity to try to make hay even though there were some stellar specimens there by times. That was the place to get the maintenance and the tuning done.

Anyway, that aside...my weigh-in today was 213 pounds. That is one pound shy of the 15 pound goal I set on November 26. I won't be weighing myself for the next two days so officially I will say that I didn't quite make it but I am pretty happy with it my efforts and results. 

By 'failing' to meet this goal though, I was able to discover that I can do some of the things that I thought that I could no longer do and although I may bounce up 2 pounds or so tomorrow and the next day, I will take it back off and continue on my quest to find a weight & size that is more beneficial to me. 

Merry Christmas to all and may you all reach your goals in 2013!!


----------



## Milkman

I think plus or minus a pound on a target of fifteen pounds is an acceptable tolerance.


I'd call that success. 

I gave my arms a good rip and did my normal cardio and core.

Then I braved the malls and finished up the shopping for Christmas as the Missus had to work today.

Happy holidays everyone.


----------



## smorgdonkey

I didn't do any pushups but I did go for 2 walks on Christmas Day. 

I didn't touch any soft drinks or potato chips but I did eat a lot of home made baked goods and chocolate. Anyway, my Christmas meal wasn't as huge as it usually is because I have been in to the smaller portions for a month. The result was that I only gained a pound over the Christmas event.

Not bad and less of a hill to climb since I don't have to retrace too many steps to continue on with weight/size adjustment.


----------



## Milkman

It's no problem Smorg. If you can look at this as a long term trend, you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

The only day I didn't work out was X Mas day. It's so nice to be off work and able to go in the mornings.

It sets the tone for a great day.

Today was cardio, legs, core, then shoveling, LOL.


----------



## smorgdonkey

We are getting snow right now but they say it will turn to rain...I don't know if they actually know it will turn to rain or if they are just trying to keep the citizens calm!


----------



## Milkman

They don't know any better than you or I it would seem. Other than financial analysts I can think of no industry or occupation in which you can be wrong so often and still maintain credibility.

Frankly, I don't trust forecasts farther out than a few hours.


----------



## vasthorizon

186 pounds! 26 to go before I reach my target weight and then try to bulk up!
Let's keep going, guys!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8222/8315721680_9677c3f8f5_c.jpg


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Hey, I found that weight I lost! Back to the diet after the holidays.


----------



## deadear

I do a lot of cycling. In the last year did 6000 km. Nov to Nov. I was 235 end of March 2012 and dropped to 210 end of Sept 2012 but I have gained a couple back since. Never had the disipline to diet so I try to burn it off and eat anything I want.


----------



## Milkman

vasthorizon said:


> 186 pounds! 26 to go before I reach my target weight and then try to bulk up!
> Let's keep going, guys!
> 
> http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8222/8315721680_9677c3f8f5_c.jpg


Awesome man!

This has been a year of change for you hasn't it?

May 2013 continue the positive trend you're in now.


----------



## vasthorizon

Milkman said:


> Awesome man!
> 
> This has been a year of change for you hasn't it?
> 
> May 2013 continue the positive trend you're in now.


Thank you, sir! Yes, this has been a big change for me.

And to you as well, Milkman!


----------



## Milkman

And, it's 2013.

Many of us (probably most in fact) will have gained a few pounds over Christmas. I'm no exception. I put on about four pounds even with going to the gym everyday except Christmas day.

I don't deny myself the pleasures of all the sweets and great meals. Fortunately I'm not a beer lover. I had a few Baileys with my coffee and a bottle of Moet and Chandon on NYE.

But, it's back to reality now. I'll be back to target weight (185) by the weekend.


----------



## smorgdonkey

I put on 2 pounds at Christmas and today the scale was blinking between 212 and 213 pounds. I had no soda and no chips but I had chocolates whenever I saw them and some nice feasts including January 1st...with more chocolates then too. Anyway, only one beer Jan 1st and no big drinking binge New Year's eve so I am enjoying everything but keeping the recklessness out of the equation. 

One thing I found is that my portion control thing has definitely influenced when I stop eating when I am at big feasts. I used to pound food like crazy and this year was more like one big plate plus a half plate instead if 3 plates like last year!! HA!


----------



## Milkman

My issue is mostly with sweets.

I'm back in spec already. I try to stay 185 lbs, plus or minus 5 lbs. That's a 10 pound tolerance which doesn't seem too strict to me (nor too easy). I'm generally around 186, 187.


Today I'm 189 lbs

I had a great work out today (cardio, chest, core) and then a good stretch. 

Tomorrow I have a day off from the gym to get a deep tissue massage.

Off to a nice start for 2013. Three day work weeks are the bomb.


----------



## Merlin

I got a copy of "Wheat Belly" by William Davis, MD on the weekend. Read it. It scared the hell out of me. However, it also made me relieved in many other ways.

Bought the companion cookbook.

Tonight, we purged the house of wheat.

New Year's Eve, I weighed 233 pounds stark naked. I'm now in a 42 waist. That should be changing shortly.


----------



## Milkman

What's wrong with wheat? I know bread can be counterproductive if you're watching carbs. Is there something else we should know?


----------



## Merlin

Milkman said:


> What's wrong with wheat? I know bread can be counterproductive if you're watching carbs. Is there something else we should know?


Quite a lot, as it turns out.

If you're seriously interested, the book is worth the time.


----------



## Milkman

Merlin said:


> Quite a lot, as it turns out.
> 
> If you're seriously interested, the book is worth the time.


I'm interested, but there's no way I would get through a book on the subject. I'm just looking for the high points.

Man, it's getting tougher and tougher to navigate the nutrition highway to health.

I figured a move to more plant based foods was a positive change, but it's not ALL plant based foods.

I'll google it.

Thanks


----------



## Merlin

Milkman said:


> I'm interested, but there's no way I would get through a book on the subject. I'm just looking for the high points.
> 
> Man, it's getting tougher and tougher to navigate the nutrition highway to health.
> 
> I figured a move to more plant based foods was a positive change, but it's not ALL plant based foods.
> 
> I'll google it.
> 
> Thanks


The sum of the book is that wheat proteins cause an addictive opiate like reaction in the brain. They make you crave more. It IS the "on switch" for overeating that people have been searching for for years.

To make things worse, the wheat we eat now is not the same as what we were served 50 years ago. 

Search Wheat Belly Blog for Dr. Davis' blog. Guy's a preventive cardiologist.


----------



## Milkman

Merlin said:


> The sum of the book is that wheat proteins cause an addictive opiate like reaction in the brain. They make you crave more. It IS the "on switch" for overeating that people have been searching for for years.
> 
> To make things worse, the wheat we eat now is not the same as what we were served 50 years ago.
> 
> Search Wheat Belly Blog for Dr. Davis' blog. Guy's a preventive cardiologist.


Thanks very much. I'll do a little reading this evening. Bread does seem addictive, LOL.

I appreciate the heads up.


----------



## Merlin

Milkman, here's the quick and dirty summary of the plan:

Wheat Belly: Quick & Dirty 2 | Wheat Belly Blog


----------



## smorgdonkey

I just did my 4.5 km walk in the -7 chilliness.


----------



## Milkman

Merlin said:


> Milkman, here's the quick and dirty summary of the plan:
> 
> Wheat Belly: Quick & Dirty 2 | Wheat Belly Blog


Are you sure about this guy?

"Eliminate:All wheat-based products (all breads, all breakfast cereals, noodles, pasta, bagels, muffins, pancakes, waffles, donuts, pretzels, crackers), oat products (oatmeal, oat bran), corn and cornstarch-based products (sauces or gravies thickened with cornstarch, prepared or processed foods containing cornstarch, cornmeal products like chips, tacos, tortillas), sugary soft drinks, candies."

But, you can eat all the red meat you want?


----------



## starjag

Milkman said:


> Are you sure about this guy?
> 
> "Eliminate:All wheat-based products (all breads, all breakfast cereals, noodles, pasta, bagels, muffins, pancakes, waffles, donuts, pretzels, crackers), oat products (oatmeal, oat bran), corn and cornstarch-based products (sauces or gravies thickened with cornstarch, prepared or processed foods containing cornstarch, cornmeal products like chips, tacos, tortillas), sugary soft drinks, candies."
> 
> But, you can eat all the red meat you want?


That sounds slightly deranged!


----------



## Merlin

All I can say is: read the book!


----------



## keto

Milkman said:


> Are you sure about this guy?
> 
> "Eliminate:All wheat-based products (all breads, all breakfast cereals, noodles, pasta, bagels, muffins, pancakes, waffles, donuts, pretzels, crackers), oat products (oatmeal, oat bran), corn and cornstarch-based products (sauces or gravies thickened with cornstarch, prepared or processed foods containing cornstarch, cornmeal products like chips, tacos, tortillas), sugary soft drinks, candies."
> 
> But, you can eat all the red meat you want?


"Dr. Davis says:  December 28, 2012 at 12:25 pm 
I believe you may be confusing some of the principles advocated here with other approaches. 
I agree with the 15 grams “net” carbs per meal, for a daily total of around 45-50 grams. I do not believe that the vast majority of people need to count calories nor fat grams. You will see that I have not set any ceiling on saturated fat intake."










Obviously, some of his methods have excellent merit. But, no or limited legumes? That one jumped right out at me. Unlimited nuts? This sure ain't about calorie reduction!


----------



## smorgdonkey

As with most diets...it isn't 100%. Take some knowledge/info about the wheat (wheat is in everything now, it seems) and leave the rest behind. 

Personally, if I was going to choose wheat or meat I'd be eating a lot of bread.


----------



## Milkman

Anytime I see a sort of "extreme" approach like what I'm reading about Wheat Belly I take it with a grain (hee hee) of salt.

I know pigging out on white bread is not going to help if you're watching your weight, but what really IS the enemy?

One week we're told it's carbs, the next it's refined, sugar, then salt, then red meat, and now anything with wheat in it.

If we eliminate everythng we're told to eliminate.....

Well, moderation is the key I suppose.

I don't think it needs to be so complicated. If you consume less calories than you burn you will lose weight.

What concerns me about these diets is sustainability. Who can live like this?

At the end of the day it's the results that matter most.


----------



## blam

keto said:


> Obviously, some of his methods have excellent merit. But, no or limited legumes? That one jumped right out at me. Unlimited nuts? This sure ain't about calorie reduction!


unlimited nuts?!?!?! I could probably consume 3000 calories of nuts in a sitting. especially cashews and pistachios. I can guarantee you I would not lose weight on that "diet"


----------



## smorgdonkey

Indeed...the unlimited nuts part struck me as nuts.

*edit* I do know people who have had some great short term results though...then again, I knew some Atkins people who also did.

Bottom line is that too many people think that they can follow a diet that doesn't include exercise and become healthy...though really I think they just want to be thin(ner). Look at this product out called 'Sensa'...just sprinkle it on your food and you'll lose weight. Come on...that's GOTTA be good for you!!


----------



## Milkman

Well, I think there's some valid science to the Wheat belly diet, but as with many diets, they take it to extremes.

Common sense and an open mind are pretty important in trying to navigate the minefield we call nutrition.

This morning was cardio, back, core, stretch at the gym for me.

I feel great. Weight is right in spec (187 lbs).


----------



## smorgdonkey

I likely won't have a weigh-in for a week because I am trying to stay away from that place since I have a week off. There is a huge difference in the way that I feel though since I have been back on track...no doubt that I do not have my 20 year old legs and I am realistic enough to know that I never will but I know that I am still capable and I feel (mostly) like $869565.25 plus HST since I started back on it more seriously/with a better multi-faceted approach.


----------



## Milkman

Good for you man.

I'll never be 20 again either, but that's not such a bad thing. I'm pretty sure I'm fitter now than I was then, as sad as that may sound.


----------



## Guitar101

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the recent study that was on the "The National" this week about it being beneficial to be carrying a few extra pounds. If a few is around 30 lbs - I'm golden.


----------



## bw66

I saw that too. And I'm in pretty good "shape" by that measure too. (But that was compared to a "skinny" population that is largely malnourished. The ideal is to be the right weight, fit, _and_ properly nourished.)


----------



## Milkman

In that case, I'm in peak physical shape.

Is it also helpful to be bald and ugly?

If so, I've nailed the trifecta.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> In that case, I'm in peak physical shape.
> 
> Is it also helpful to be bald and ugly?
> 
> If so, I've nailed the trifecta.


Ok...many times when people type 'lol' they mean that they think that something is funny, not that they really laughed out loud.

I really did laugh out loud at that one. 

Cheers!


----------



## Milkman

Sad but true.


----------



## Milkman

Oh man,

Anyone else go to the gym today?

A Monday in January is like the perfect storm of good intentions in any building dedicated to fitness.

I hate to wish my life away, but I'll be glad to see February or at least the last week of January, LOL.

The cardio deck was the worst, but fortunately my gym has many of each type of device so I was able to get it done.

In the strength training area it was more a case of lots of people standing and talking in front of weights or machines.

They quickly move if you ask politely.

"excuse me. Sorry to interrupt, but do you mind if I use those?"


----------



## smorgdonkey

HA!! The only gym that I go to is at work and there may be 15 members...possibly 20. The most people I have seen in there was 3 at one time.

...I do recall Lindsay Park (now the Talisman Center) in Calgary being like that back when I used to go there...nothing like January fat!!


----------



## Milkman

smorgdonkey said:


> HA!! The only gym that I go to is at work and there may be 15 members...possibly 20. The most people I have seen in there was 3 at one time.
> 
> ...I do recall Lindsay Park (now the Talisman Center) in Calgary being like that back when I used to go there...nothing like January fat!!



This is beyond ridiculous. I thought there must have been a celebrity there or something.

I applaud the initiative. Being there is a good first step.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> This is beyond ridiculous. I thought there must have been a celebrity there or something.
> 
> I applaud the initiative. Being there is a good first step.


...but all of that fat standing around in spandex talking is really annoying!!


----------



## Milkman

smorgdonkey said:


> ...but all of that fat standing around in spandex talking is really annoying!!



It just surprises me that people think you can chat, read magazines et cetera and as long as you spend an hour or so doing this IN A GYM, you'll get results.

You have to put your heart and mind into it, whether you do it at home, in a dojo, running, biking, swimming or at the gym.

Effort in = results.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> It just surprises me that people think you can chat, read magazines et cetera and as long as you spend an hour or so doing this IN A GYM, you'll get results.
> 
> You have to put your heart and mind into it, whether you do it at home, in a dojo, running, biking, swimming or at the gym.
> 
> Effort in = results.


Exactly...I have known MANY people who would say things like "I go to the gym for 2 hours X times per week" and then I'd see them there, doing exactly what we are discussing...socializing, walking around aimlessly (aimlessly? In a GYM?!?). 

You can work out hard and you can work out long but you really can't work out hard for long. Cardio takes time but the rest doesn't really take much time if the intensity is there. No machinery or fitness equipment works by osmosis or has an effect if one stands within reach of it.


----------



## Milkman

smorgdonkey said:


> Exactly...I have known MANY people who would say things like "I go to the gym for 2 hours X times per week" and then I'd see them there, doing exactly what we are discussing...socializing, walking around aimlessly (aimlessly? In a GYM?!?).
> 
> You can work out hard and you can work out long but you really can't work out hard for long. Cardio takes time but the rest doesn't really take much time if the intensity is there. No machinery or fitness equipment works by osmosis or has an effect if one stands within reach of it.


I see it every day, but January is when all the folks who either received memberships for Christmas or made New Years resolutions show up. By February it's back to normal.

And no, it doesn't take more than an hour to get a killer workout if you go about your business and don't stand around. I do 22 minutes of cardio and then straight to the strength stuff. I'm an ahour an a half including changing and shower.

But hey, I've been watching those Bowflex commercials and I can get ripped and huge with fifteen minutes three times a week.

I've been wasting my time with these exhausting hour long workouts. And the sweating? Not necessaryt with Bowflex.

What was I thinking?


----------



## smorgdonkey

HA! Yes, the Bowflex commercials are funny. Especially the Treadclimber one...there's no way that you would burn 3 times the calories on that. Anyway, EVERY (ok, almost every) tool out there can be very effective if you know what you are doing. 

As for short workouts:
If you are on your back and biceps day, warm up thoroughly and then get into pull-ups. Do as many as you can per set and do about 3 or 4 sets. On the last set after failure, jump up to the 'top' part of the pull-up and control your decline as much as you can. Do that for 4 or 5 reps then go to the dumbells or your bicep curl of choice and curl what you can curl right away until failure. 

Immediately upon failure, peel weight off of it. Repeat without resting. You'll finish your back and biceps in about 20 minutes. I'm sure that I have looked pretty funny with 10 pound dumbells and hardly being able to curl them after doing chins, then curling 60 pounds then 40 then having those 10 pounders. Your biceps will scream and you'll feel it the next day. If the intensity is there, and the right plan, you won't be able to do much...but then again, the human body adapts really quickly so you don't want to do every workout like that anyway.

Just do that on the days that you are in a hurry...but never hurry past the warm-up. You need to be warmed-up or you will set yourself up for injury.


----------



## Milkman

The amount of weight on the bar or machine is no indication of the effectiveness of the activity. 

I tend to do back and arms on separate days, but yes, you can get it done anywhere and with equipment or without. Really the gym or whatever approach you take is secondary to the will to actually follow through.


----------



## surlybastard

I'm a little late to this thread, but I thought I'd toss up my story as reading this got me thinking of my own fitness journey:

I had always been a somewhat average size, occasionally done some running and working out, but never stuck with it for anything more than a few months. When I was 25 I broke up with a girlfriend who I'd been with for more than five years and basically became the walking cliche: Eating tons of junk food, drinking lots and sitting around feeling sorry for myself. After drifting for a number of months one day I came to the realization I needed to do something when I struggled to tie my shoe (I was breathing heavy and labouring while trying to do it). I stepped on a scale that day for the first time in forever and was more than 30 lbs. over where I normally was. So that was it, that day I committed myself to working out 5-6 days a week and I've done so ever since. That was 8 years ago and I'm still going strong. I run three days a week, and do weights 2-3 days a week. I've done all my exercise out of my house, never joined a gym. There's a couple of reasons for this: first being I'm cheap and don't want to pay and secondly I'm lazy and having to take time to go to a gym would kill my motivation (I know that's weird to say from a guy who works out this much but it's true). Finally, being self conscious makes the whole gym experience a bit daunting for me, so I've always avoided it. I mention this just for people like me who would be scared off by the whole gym thing, you don't necessarily need to do it, I think I've done pretty well with some free weights and a bench. The only thing is if you don't have a spotter (which I don't) you have to restrict yourself from doing certain exercises just for safety reasons. Also, I run outside all year round regardless of the weather. Living in this climate that's something that gives most people the easiest excuses (trust me, I use them too sometimes) to get out of running. I've found what works for me is to treat the weather as a challenge, something I have to overcome. Sure, I don't do great times running in the snow but I get out, get a sweat in and get it done and feel as though I really accomplished something when I do it which keeps me motivated.

The other thing I've learned in 8 years is that it's always evolving and you always need to stay on top of it. In 2011 for example my eating got really bad, I was still working out as much as I always was but taking in way too much food and putting on weight. Before I knew it I was 20 lbs. up, my knees (which are bad to begin with) were aching during every run. So I made a commitment got my eating straightened out and ended up dropping 30 lbs. to get myself back to my high school weight (first time I'd seen it since high school). This past summer I ran my best 5k times, also did my best CN Tower climb time (I've done that five times).

Anyhow, thought I'd put this down as I don't often really think about where I was to where I am regarding working out, I just do it. It's become such a part of my daily routine it's like eating and sleeping to me. Alright that's enough from me, I need to get my 3 year old daughter in her snowsuit, load her into the jogging stroller and head out for a run in the snow!


----------



## smorgdonkey

Excellent surly...many people never realize it and keep going way past the 30 pounds.

Milkman...the theory of doing biceps and back on the same day is that most back exercises incorporate the biceps (any pulling) and conversely, that's why people often do chest and triceps on another day because most chest 'pushing' exercises incorporate the triceps.

However, you are achieving incredible results so obviously, your method works well.


----------



## Milkman

surlybastard said:


> I'm a little late to this thread, but I thought I'd toss up my story as reading this got me thinking of my own fitness journey:
> 
> I had always been a somewhat average size, occasionally done some running and working out, but never stuck with it for anything more than a few months. When I was 25 I broke up with a girlfriend who I'd been with for more than five years and basically became the walking cliche: Eating tons of junk food, drinking lots and sitting around feeling sorry for myself. After drifting for a number of months one day I came to the realization I needed to do something when I struggled to tie my shoe (I was breathing heavy and labouring while trying to do it). I stepped on a scale that day for the first time in forever and was more than 30 lbs. over where I normally was. So that was it, that day I committed myself to working out 5-6 days a week and I've done so ever since. That was 8 years ago and I'm still going strong. I run three days a week, and do weights 2-3 days a week. I've done all my exercise out of my house, never joined a gym. There's a couple of reasons for this: first being I'm cheap and don't want to pay and secondly I'm lazy and having to take time to go to a gym would kill my motivation (I know that's weird to say from a guy who works out this much but it's true). Finally, being self conscious makes the whole gym experience a bit daunting for me, so I've always avoided it. I mention this just for people like me who would be scared off by the whole gym thing, you don't necessarily need to do it, I think I've done pretty well with some free weights and a bench. The only thing is if you don't have a spotter (which I don't) you have to restrict yourself from doing certain exercises just for safety reasons. Also, I run outside all year round regardless of the weather. Living in this climate that's something that gives most people the easiest excuses (trust me, I use them too sometimes) to get out of running. I've found what works for me is to treat the weather as a challenge, something I have to overcome. Sure, I don't do great times running in the snow but I get out, get a sweat in and get it done and feel as though I really accomplished something when I do it which keeps me motivated.
> 
> The other thing I've learned in 8 years is that it's always evolving and you always need to stay on top of it. In 2011 for example my eating got really bad, I was still working out as much as I always was but taking in way too much food and putting on weight. Before I knew it I was 20 lbs. up, my knees (which are bad to begin with) were aching during every run. So I made a commitment got my eating straightened out and ended up dropping 30 lbs. to get myself back to my high school weight (first time I'd seen it since high school). This past summer I ran my best 5k times, also did my best CN Tower climb time (I've done that five times).
> 
> Anyhow, thought I'd put this down as I don't often really think about where I was to where I am regarding working out, I just do it. It's become such a part of my daily routine it's like eating and sleeping to me. Alright that's enough from me, I need to get my 3 year old daughter in her snowsuit, load her into the jogging stroller and head out for a run in the snow!


Thanks very much for the story Surly.

As you know and have clearly demonstrated, there is no one path to improving fitness. I know lots of people who feel the same about going to a gym and I can empathize with that. I had absolutely no background in fitness and really was a babe in the woods when I first walked in. 

Running is very effective for cardio and weight loss, no question about it. For many, myself incuded running is not a great solution for various reasons, not the least of which is the pounding. If you can do it, it's basically free and nothing will be more effective.

I'm encouraged to hear that you're back to your high school weight. I am as well and for me that was around 35 years ago.

You also seem to have a similar mentality to mine with regards to making fitness a part of your daily routine.

Good on you man!


----------



## Milkman

smorgdonkey said:


> Excellent surly...many people never realize it and keep going way past the 30 pounds.
> 
> Milkman...the theory of doing biceps and back on the same day is that most back exercises incorporate the biceps (any pulling) and conversely, that's why people often do chest and triceps on another day because most chest 'pushing' exercises incorporate the triceps.
> 
> However, you are achieving incredible results so obviously, your method works well.


I'm never too smart to take input or advice Smorg, so thanks.

I've heard similar aproaches. Mine is to always do cardio first, because for me it's the most vital. I definitely can attest to the fact that doing back has animpact on your arms. I give my arms a break every four days when I do legs.

I have a four day cycle and it seems to work well for me in terms of gains and recovery.

I know many of the guys do weights first and then cardio, but with the intensity use for cardio I don't think I'd have the strength to do that after strength training.

I think you could do almost ANY excercise and get benefit as long as you sweat your ass off and eat well.


----------



## smorgdonkey

I agree with your points. I think many people find that they don't have the energy for strength training after cardio but each person has their own barometer for that as well. 

I think that part in surly's story of people being down and finding refuge in food is really common. Food has a way of calming people or perhaps comforting them is a better word. The problem is that after too much 'comfort' people stay in that rut and it is very destructive...it is also SO easy to do.


----------



## Milkman

Yup, and it can very easily become a downward spiral. You over eat because you're unhappy and you're unhappy because you over eat.

That also makes excercise more difficult and more uncomfortable. It also makes you more self conscious and that leads to self image issues, lack of confidence et cetera, et cetera.

The thing to consider if that's the situation one finds oneself in is that the upward spiral of starting a path to better health is as positive as the downward one is negative.

As you lose weight and get smaller, your confidence and self image improves and you find the excercise becomes more a reward than a punishment.


----------



## RIFF WRATH

been following this thread.....in the past 2years I have dropped from 165 / 170 down to 145 and holding.........lost most of the beer belly and have the stretch marks to prove it.......I eat healthy comfort food daily........no sugar, added salt , outside junk food, no dessert...................I rarely exercise...me bad.........I do take regular, assorted vitamin supplements to compensate for my distaste for lots of vegies (I eat em but hate em)...........my weight loss success is something I heard referenced on the Q last night as the 3/4 diet..........trust me, it does work..........reduce your supper meal to 3/4 your "normal" intake.......in fact use a smaller plate......smaller portions.........nothing majical here...........and yes, I need to tone up with some exercise regimen...........another point......an easy and almost as effective as a regular pushup.......do them by leaning against the wall, hands stretched straight to the wall and feet back.........here's to a healthy future.........cheers, Gerry


----------



## Milkman

RIFF WRATH said:


> been following this thread.....in the past 2years I have dropped from 165 / 170 down to 145 and holding.........lost most of the beer belly and have the stretch marks to prove it.......I eat healthy comfort food daily........no sugar, added salt , outside junk food, no dessert...................I rarely exercise...me bad.........I do take regular, assorted vitamin supplements to compensate for my distaste for lots of vegies (I eat em but hate em)...........my weight loss success is something I heard referenced on the Q last night as the 3/4 diet..........trust me, it does work..........reduce your supper meal to 3/4 your "normal" intake.......in fact use a smaller plate......smaller portions.........nothing majical here...........and yes, I need to tone up with some exercise regimen...........another point......an easy and almost as effective as a regular pushup.......do them by leaning against the wall, hands stretched straight to the wall and feet back.........here's to a healthy future.........cheers, Gerry


Right on Gerry.

Good to hear. The planet's a better place with you on it.

Everybody has different priorities and levels of fitness they would like to reach.

i also have issues with vegetables. I'm working on it, but I take vitamins to help.

Better than last year is good enough.

Thanks


----------



## Milkman

Looking good Smorg.

I just got home from the gym. I always push myself to the wall on the cardio. This morning I went just a little too far and lost my breakfast (made it to the washroom this time).

It happens. I gargled and then did my strength stuff. Today was cardio, legs and core.

I had a great leg workout.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Yes...that is intense...do you allow yourself an hour from the time that you eat until the time that you begin your cardio? 

I think a lot of Joes (you know, the ones who think that they could have been pro athletes but didn't because...) don't realize that most pro athletes are going that hard on every play/shift and in training - it is 100% (not 110%) effort. You have to leave it all on the field/ice/court or you only have yourself to blame if you lose and if you really want to make gains, you have to leave it all in the training room unless you have to work afterward!


----------



## Milkman

smorgdonkey said:


> Yes...that is intense...do you allow yourself an hour from the time that you eat until the time that you begin your cardio?
> 
> I think a lot of Joes (you know, the ones who think that they could have been pro athletes but didn't because...) don't realize that most pro athletes are going that hard on every play/shift and in training - it is 100% (not 110%) effort. You have to leave it all on the field/ice/court or you only have yourself to blame if you lose and if you really want to make gains, you have to leave it all in the training room unless you have to work afterward!


I hit the gym on an empty stomach on weekend mornings. There's just no way I can eat at 7:30 AM. 

Like I said, I push myself to the limit or close to it every time I do cardio. Today was a bit past the limit, but how do you know unless you actually learn your limitations?

It has happened three times in two years.

Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess, LOL.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> I hit the gym on an empty stomach on weekend mornings.


That's likely one of the factors that has worked synergistically with your routine to result in such huge fitness gains and weight loss for you. I don't know if I discussed it before but theoretically, your body has used your glycogen stores while you slept and did not eat...therefor your workout is taxing your system for energy stores and it goes to the stored fat to find that energy. 



Milkman said:


> There's just no way I can eat at 7:30 AM.


I could eat a full spread regardless of the time of day. If I wake at 5:00 am I can start into the food immediately!! HAHA! One time a couple buddies and I left for Maine after working 4pm to midnight. We got there pretty early...I think between 7:30 and 8 in the morning. I got CUT OFF from all you can eat breakfast. I was about 185-190 pounds at the time.


----------



## Milkman

I just got back from my Sunday morning workout. Today was cardio, chest, core.

Then I saw this article.

What was I thinking? Why bother worrying about how much or what you eat when you can have one of these installed?

Weight loss gadget sucks food through stomach - Weight Management - C-Health


----------



## starjag

Milkman said:


> I just got back from my Sunday morning workout. Today was cardio, chest, core.
> 
> Then I saw this article.
> 
> What was I thinking? Why bother worrying about how much or what you eat when you can have one of these installed?
> 
> Weight loss gadget sucks food through stomach - Weight Management - C-Health


Love the gadget, much cleaner than puking after meals.


----------



## Milkman

starjag said:


> Love the gadget, much cleaner than puking after meals.


LMAO

I think they're going after similar demographic groups.

EWO (not EMO)

Easy

Way

Out


----------



## Steadfastly

Several years ago I joined Weight Watchers. What I like about their program is that they teach you to re-learn how and what to eat. I found I was eating like I did when I was in my twenties but as we get older, the metabolism slows down and that kind of intake was putting weight on me. If you stick to their program you will not be overweight, at least not more than 10 lbs or so, but not grossly over weight.


----------



## Milkman

Weight watchers and other support networks have helped many people reduce weight.

Some people get better results with group activities like this and similarly with classes or instructor led fitness activities than they do on their own.

Everyone has to learn what works best for them.

My gym has excellent programs like P90X, T-REX, Zooba et cetera, et cetera. I see big line ups almost every day to get into those areas. I guess these things help people to distract themselves from the reality of what they're really trying to do. It's a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down. Nothing wrong with that.

Alas, I'm a loner Dottie. I like to work on my own.


----------



## surlybastard

Milkman said:


> Thanks very much for the story Surly.
> 
> As you know and have clearly demonstrated, there is no one path to improving fitness. I know lots of people who feel the same about going to a gym and I can empathize with that. I had absolutely no background in fitness and really was a babe in the woods when I first walked in.
> 
> Running is very effective for cardio and weight loss, no question about it. For many, myself incuded running is not a great solution for various reasons, not the least of which is the pounding. If you can do it, it's basically free and nothing will be more effective.
> 
> I'm encouraged to hear that you're back to your high school weight. I am as well and for me that was around 35 years ago.
> 
> You also seem to have a similar mentality to mine with regards to making fitness a part of your daily routine.
> 
> Good on you man!


I just wanted to throw out there that you need not necessarily go to a gym, although that's certainly very effective for the vast majority of people.

The one other thing I wanted to say was something I learned over time that really works for me as far as managing motivation. There's no shortage of things out there in the world to motivate you to live an active life, eat better and be healthy. You're always encouraged to find things that will motivate you to achieve your fitness goals (ie. wanting to feel better, look a certain way, or be able to accomplish some kind of athletic feat), but what is often overlooked is the much larger amount of things present in the world which will kill your motivation dead. After a number of months I started to realize there were a number of things pulling at me killing my motivation, it's all the standard stuff: not enough time, feeling tired when it's time to work out, bad weather, other life events being scheduled during work out time, etc. In my observation it isn't lack of motivation that causes people's workouts to gradually decline and then eventually disappear, it's these things and they all spiral together. People don't usually lack motivation to do it, they lack the forethought required to integrate it into their day to day lives in a way that's manageable.

This is the one piece of information I try to instill in anyone when I get asked how I've been able to keep it going for so long. For me, it's an ongoing game of trying to identify things happening in my life which are going to stop me from working out and finding ways to work around them. Even having done it for this long it's an ongoing process. Just this past October there was a period when it rained for 28 of 35 days. At one point I jogged in the rain for 7 straight days, and to make matters worse my daughter started pre-school so we all got sick. In that month I only missed one run, although this is probably a bad example as it has more to do with just insisting on doing it regardless of weather and how I felt rather than having to do any planning or moving of my schedule.

Anyhow, if there's one thing I tell people, it's that. Find those things that will block you and work on ways around them. Those things will kill your workouts faster than anything.


----------



## Milkman

surlybastard said:


> I just wanted to throw out there that you need not necessarily go to a gym, although that's certainly very effective for the vast majority of people.
> 
> The one other thing I wanted to say was something I learned over time that really works for me as far as managing motivation. There's no shortage of things out there in the world to motivate you to live an active life, eat better and be healthy. You're always encouraged to find things that will motivate you to achieve your fitness goals (ie. wanting to feel better, look a certain way, or be able to accomplish some kind of athletic feat), but what is often overlooked is the much larger amount of things present in the world which will kill your motivation dead. After a number of months I started to realize there were a number of things pulling at me killing my motivation, it's all the standard stuff: not enough time, feeling tired when it's time to work out, bad weather, other life events being scheduled during work out time, etc. In my observation it isn't lack of motivation that causes people's workouts to gradually decline and then eventually disappear, it's these things and they all spiral together. People don't usually lack motivation to do it, they lack the forethought required to integrate it into their day to day lives in a way that's manageable.
> 
> This is the one piece of information I try to instill in anyone when I get asked how I've been able to keep it going for so long. For me, it's an ongoing game of trying to identify things happening in my life which are going to stop me from working out and finding ways to work around them. Even having done it for this long it's an ongoing process. Just this past October there was a period when it rained for 28 of 35 days. At one point I jogged in the rain for 7 straight days, and to make matters worse my daughter started pre-school so we all got sick. In that month I only missed one run, although this is probably a bad example as it has more to do with just insisting on doing it regardless of weather and how I felt rather than having to do any planning or moving of my schedule.
> 
> Anyhow, if there's one thing I tell people, it's that. Find those things that will block you and work on ways around them. Those things will kill your workouts faster than anything.


I understand and agree.

I love going to the gym, but when I first signed up I fully expected to lose interest within a few months and as a contingency plan, I bought a nice mountain bike.

I figured when I lost motivation to keep the gym workouts up I'd switch to trail riding.

So far that hasn't happened for me, but if it does I'll find another way to keep active.

Thanks for your perspective and input.


----------



## smorgdonkey

I think another thing of note is that after you get past a certain point (and it is fairly ealy on but it tends to intensify as you reach better condition) there is this fantastic feeling of well-being. It is so difficult to describe to non-workout people...rather like a euphoric feeling that is so beneficial to the state of mind and the feeling of your physical self as well. I suppose it is endorphins and all of thiose complex 'good' chemicals that your body naturally releases within us(?) but it is very hard to articulate this feeling.

I think that's why people often look at those who are trying to describe "how great their workout makes them feel" with the same 'what are you on' sort of expression that they'd give to them if they were relating an alien abduction saga.


----------



## Milkman

smorgdonkey said:


> I think another thing of note is that after you get past a certain point (and it is fairly ealy on but it tends to intensify as you reach better condition) there is this fantastic feeling of well-being. It is so difficult to describe to non-workout people...rather like a euphoric feeling that is so beneficial to the state of mind and the feeling of your physical self as well. I suppose it is endorphins and all of thiose complex 'good' chemicals that your body naturally releases within us(?) but it is very hard to articulate this feeling.
> 
> I think that's why people often look at those who are trying to describe "how great their workout makes them feel" with the same 'what are you on' sort of expression that they'd give to them if they were relating an alien abduction saga.


You're right.

How can beating the heck out of yourself possibly feel good?


It just does. When I walk out of the gym, I'm spent, but yes, euphoric and peaceful.

How often do any of us stop and say, "hey, I feel pretty good today"?

I do, almost every day. You can't put a price on that.


----------



## Guitar101

It's too bad you guys didn't live closer to me. I could put all of that spent energy your wasting to good use around the farm.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Guitar101 said:


> It's too bad you guys didn't live closer to me. I could put all of that spent energy your wasting to good use around the farm.


I'd be all over that if my back was better. I used to love the wood splitting marathons and many other laborious deeds that I did years ago but my back is one of the parts of my physique that always reminds me of my age. My guess is bulging discs or worn discs...I have days that feel pretty good but I have way too many days (especially in this past year) that I feel like a rusted iron man trying to get things moving.


----------



## keto

Milkman said:


> You're right.
> 
> How can beating the heck out of yourself possibly feel good?
> 
> 
> It just does. When I walk out of the gym, I'm spent, but yes, euphoric and peaceful.
> 
> How often do any of us stop and say, "hey, I feel pretty good today"?
> 
> I do, almost every day. You can't put a price on that.


Another perspective, I had no energy yesterday but have been working out some amount every day for a couple of weeks. I had no desire to work out yesterday, but have been put on a physio program for a shoulder issue. I delayed it as long as possible, and only got going very late by telling myself I'd hate myself later if I didn't - what a lousy motivational technique lol. But I did, did more than I planned, and felt better for it both mentally and physically when I was done!


----------



## Milkman

Guitar101 said:


> It's too bad you guys didn't live closer to me. I could put all of that spent energy your wasting to good use around the farm.



LOL, or I could walk to Ohio next week instead of driving.

However you get er done I guess.

I'm not afraid of manual labour. I was taught at a very young age to value a hard days work.

But, alas, someone somewhere decided that I was more useful for what I know and am able to do with my mind than I am with a shovel or chainsaw.

We all have our cross to bear.


----------



## sneakypete

smorgdonkey said:


> I think another thing of note is that after you get past a certain point (and it is fairly ealy on but it tends to intensify as you reach better condition) there is this fantastic feeling of well-being.



Yes, I`ve never really been able to let myself go until I was overweight and out of shape. Always played a lot of sports as a kid so when I reached my 20`s and past the age of organized team sports in the places I lived it was natural to just keep going and always find time to do my routine, I`m no body builder and don`t go to Gold`s Gym, don`t feel the need to, over the years I have stuck to what works for me. As I age and my body changes I have adjusted and still push myself but try not to hurt myself, after so many years I do have some idea how far I can go and if I need to skip a day I do, I don`t do this for anyone but myself, you won`t find me flexing in front of mirrors or posting pics of myself on line. Non work out people well, I leave that up to their doctors, not looking to change the entire world, just my little piece of it.


----------



## smorgdonkey

I used to have a great regimen of eating some 'blender meals' back when I was at the peak of my fitness. The blender that I used is long gone because one of the threaded parts that would be removed for cleaning parts broke and I never replaced it. I don't have many kitchen gadgets...a tiny veg chopper...a toaster...a rice cooker and a small 4 cup drip coffee perk rig.

I just bought a Vitamix.

I wanted one of these since I first saw them in the early '90s. Expensive but I will use it often.


----------



## keto

I've been going at it pretty good since Christmas - got an exercise bike, and brought some dumbells out of storage. Haven't really lost weight, but that's not really my goal...I don't have a clearly defined end goal, just want to get more fit. 6'0" and pretty steady around 182-3 lbs, but have lots more energy and strength. If I were more diligent about what I eat, I could probably get to 175 but that's not #1 priority just now. In my dreams, I'd drop a pant size or 2 and flatten my tummy, but even when I was REALLY fit and strong 20 years ago I never really sported a 6-pack, even at 150-155 lbs.


----------



## torndownunit

I have a little bit different situation. 2 years ago (when I was 34) I was in the best shape of my life. I was working with a trainer 2 days a week, and doing grappling and Karate on the other days. I was ridiculously strong, and conditioned for someone my size. I packed on over 15 lbs of muscle in a year (I had been 140 lbs since I was 16, and got up into the 160 lbs range). 

I have to keep a high level of fitness because it helps with the chronic migraines I get. I injured my hip and had to cease the heavy training. My migraines got really bad, and I they tried Topamax to see if it would help. It decimated my body. I am the type of person who has to work hard to GAIN weight. I lost 15 lbs in 3 months on the Topamax and looked completely frail. My legs looked like you could snap them in half. My mind wasn't in much better shape.

I started working with a trainer again about 2 months ago, and am finally starting to put some weight back on and gain some strength. I am working my ass off. I got a long way to go though to even approach the shape I was in 2 years ago. I d have a goal of getting back to doing grappling though because I loved it.


----------



## Milkman

torndownunit said:


> I have a little bit different situation. 2 years ago (when I was 34) I was in the best shape of my life. I was working with a trainer 2 days a week, and doing grappling and Karate on the other days. I was ridiculously strong, and conditioned for someone my size. I packed on over 15 lbs of muscle in a year (I had been 140 lbs since I was 16, and got up into the 160 lbs range).
> 
> I have to keep a high level of fitness because it helps with the chronic migraines I get. I injured my hip and had to cease the heavy training. My migraines got really bad, and I they tried Topamax to see if it would help. It decimated my body. I am the type of person who has to work hard to GAIN weight. I lost 15 lbs in 3 months on the Topamax and looked completely frail. My legs looked like you could snap them in half. My mind wasn't in much better shape.
> 
> I started working with a trainer again about 2 months ago, and am finally starting to put some weight back on and gain some strength. I am working my ass off. I got a long way to go though to even approach the shape I was in 2 years ago. I d have a goal of getting back to doing grappling though because I loved it.


Best of luck man. I'm confident you can get back to where you want to be. I've never met you and yet I KNOW you can do it.

I never would have believed I could get where I am and even less, that I could stay there.

If nothing else, it has convinced me that mind over matter is not just a catchy cliche.

As for the migraines, my only suggestion is to look for solutions outside the realm of the pharmaceutical business (medical science).

Pills are a bandaid. You need to find out what is causing the headaches and fix THAT.


----------



## Milkman

keto said:


> I've been going at it pretty good since Christmas - got an exercise bike, and brought some dumbells out of storage. Haven't really lost weight, but that's not really my goal...I don't have a clearly defined end goal, just want to get more fit. 6'0" and pretty steady around 182-3 lbs, but have lots more energy and strength. If I were more diligent about what I eat, I could probably get to 175 but that's not #1 priority just now. In my dreams, I'd drop a pant size or 2 and flatten my tummy, but even when I was REALLY fit and strong 20 years ago I never really sported a 6-pack, even at 150-155 lbs.


Although you don't have the daunting challenge some of us do (or did), anything you do to improve fitness, will pay dividends in your overall health and as you have noted, in the way you feel everyday.

It's my opinion that we all should take personal responsibility for our health. You're doing just that.

Right on.


----------



## smorgdonkey

I echo the statements mades by Milkman for both of you.

On the subject of migraines, I heard a seminar by a German doctor that stated multiple times over that a vegan diet nearly eliminated migraines in their patients. Is it true? I do not know...I do know that my health was improved to such a high degree by going vegan that I would have a hard time trying to put a number on it and I was already very healthy when I got on it.

Now, my diet would be described as 'vegan that goes off of the rails from time to time' and really, I think that's the way it should be.


----------



## Guitar101

smorgdonkey said:


> Now, my diet would be described as 'vegan that goes off of the rails from time to time' and really, I think that's the way it should be.


Another way of putting this is, you are now a "Closet Carnivore".


----------



## smorgdonkey

Guitar101 said:


> Another way of putting this is, you are now a "Closet Carnivore".


I suppose that is another label that would apply, but it lends one to think that the person with the label is craving meat and consuming it with some level of secrecy. That doesn't apply to me but the label that I came up with doesn't really suit me either, even though the descriptive nature of it is quite accurate.


----------



## sneakypete

Yes, exercise is good for your health is a message thats been around for a very long time.


----------



## Milkman

So has "don't drink and drive" but we still need to push it.


----------



## jimsz

Hey guys, I've been at the p90x program for about 10 months now and have never been in better shape my entire life, however my other bandmates are overweight and completely out of shape.

Of course, I don't want to sound like the "ex-smoker" harping to others about smoking cigarettes, but I would very much like to see these guys get into shape before they have a stroke or something.

How does one go about such a feat? Or, should I just let sleeping dogs lie?


----------



## smorgdonkey

It is just like smoking unfortunately...the more that you suggest it, the less likely they are to take the hint. If it isn't something that they decide themselves, they simply won't follow through.


----------



## Steadfastly

Has anyone here tried Dr. Bernstein? If so, what is your opinion of their program?


----------



## Milkman

It's hard to push, but easier to pull.

I'm happy to help and support anyone around me (for what it's worth) if they express an interest, but I would never urge someone if they haven't already figured it out.

That will almost always back fire.

It's very much like getting a loved one to quit smoking.



jimsz said:


> Hey guys, I've been at the p90x program for about 10 months now and have never been in better shape my entire life, however my other bandmates are overweight and completely out of shape.
> 
> Of course, I don't want to sound like the "ex-smoker" harping to others about smoking cigarettes, but I would very much like to see these guys get into shape before they have a stroke or something.
> 
> How does one go about such a feat? Or, should I just let sleeping dogs lie?


----------



## Steadfastly

jimsz said:


> Hey guys, I've been at the p90x program for about 10 months now and have never been in better shape my entire life, however my other bandmates are overweight and completely out of shape.
> 
> Of course, I don't want to sound like the "ex-smoker" harping to others about smoking cigarettes, but I would very much like to see these guys get into shape before they have a stroke or something.
> 
> How does one go about such a feat? Or, should I just let sleeping dogs lie?


Only use encouragement and then you have to pick your spots so it doesn't come across as nagging or self-righteous preaching. Letting them know you're concerned about them and don't want to see anything happen to them and letting them know you'll be as supportive as possible if they ever decide to try quitting, can go a long way when they are ready. No one will quit unless they make up their minds to do so.


----------



## torndownunit

smorgdonkey said:


> I echo the statements mades by Milkman for both of you.
> 
> On the subject of migraines, I heard a seminar by a German doctor that stated multiple times over that a vegan diet nearly eliminated migraines in their patients. Is it true? I do not know...I do know that my health was improved to such a high degree by going vegan that I would have a hard time trying to put a number on it and I was already very healthy when I got on it.
> 
> Now, my diet would be described as 'vegan that goes off of the rails from time to time' and really, I think that's the way it should be.


The problem is everyone is different and everyone's migraine triggers are different. The diet I had the most luck with for reducing migraines when I could stick to it was actually Paleo. Which is about as far from Vegan as you can get. Paleo was formulated to combat inflammation and auto-immune conditions like rheumatoid arthritis. And it definitely helped with my migraines. I need to get back on it, but holidays set me back (as they do for most people). Where they do have some similarities though is that you remove dairy, which is a major migraine trigger for a lot of people. You also take gluten out with Paleo, which is another suspected trigger.

I have had the migraines since I was 7 and I am 36. I have tried every treatment you can imagine from pharmaceutical, things like meditation and yoga, to diet. The problem is migraines are classified as a disease because for most people there is no 'cure'. You can just stop getting them which does happen for a lot of people, but there isn't really as set treatment that can simply stop them. For me, my entire lifestyle has to be geared towards fighting them. That's why diet and exercise are a huge deal to me.

As for jimz queston, that's a tough one. I think you are doing more than you realize jimz leading by example. People have to make up their mind when to quit. But I can guarantee that seeing you doing well is planting those seeds in their minds.


----------



## smorgdonkey

You definitely have to get back on what was working for you. Dairy and gluten are both used in such insane frequent quantities that there will only be more issues for people in the future with them.


----------



## torndownunit

smorgdonkey said:


> You definitely have to get back on what was working for you. Dairy and gluten are both used in such insane frequent quantities that there will only be more issues for people in the future with them.


Ya some people write off gluten issues, but everyone out there should try not eating gluten for a couple of weeks and see how you feel. Cutting it out, or just cutting out as much as you can, from your diet can make a huge difference in how you feel. I definitely cheat on the gluten now and then, but do I ever feel the difference when I do. I instantly feel bloated and lethargic. Dairy is the same, but dairy is a lot easier to avoid I find. I did love cheese, but I don't miss it (and I do have the occasional cheat with it as well).


----------



## Merlin

torndownunit said:


> Ya some people write off gluten issues, but everyone out there should try not eating gluten for a couple of weeks and see how you feel. Cutting it out, or just cutting out as much as you can, from your diet can make a huge difference in how you feel. I definitely cheat on the gluten now and then, but do I ever feel the difference when I do. I instantly feel bloated and lethargic. Dairy is the same, but dairy is a lot easier to avoid I find. I did love cheese, but I don't miss it (and I do have the occasional cheat with it as well).


Gluten is gone from my diet now, and I feel MUCH better.


----------



## Steadfastly

Merlin said:


> Gluten is gone from my diet now, and I feel MUCH better.


My wife was having some issues with her health and went gluten free about a month ago. She realized that gluten has been a problem for a long time. I think I'm going to try it and see what happens.


----------



## Milkman

Gluten seems to be the buzz word these days. It's in a lot of stuff most of us eat every day.

How easy is it to reduce or eliminate?

I don't think I have a gluten intolerance at this pont but who knows?


----------



## torndownunit

Milkman said:


> Gluten seems to be the buzz word these days. It's in a lot of stuff most of us eat every day.
> 
> How easy is it to reduce or eliminate?
> 
> I don't think I have a gluten intolerance at this pont but who knows?


The things people have a tough time with are pastas, cereals, and breads. You have to eliminate those or use alternatives. In some cases it's easy, like just eating fruit or eggs etc for breakfast instead of cereal. Most major grocery stores have a gluten free section now that has pastas. You can also get them at Bulk Barn for about the same price as normal pasta. They are generally made from rice flour. Bread is a tougher one. I just try to avoid it. But you can get bread made from potato flour that isn't horrible.

I don't think I have a bad gluten intolerance. But even at that I feel a million times better when I don't eat it. For people with a sensitivity or celiac disease, which people generally have no idea they have, it can cause major issues that they attribute to other things. You will know very quickly if it will benefit you. 

If you just eat lot's of fruit, vegetables, nuts, legumes, and meat (if you eat meat) it's not an issue anyway. It's not really a restrictive diet. Some people's diets just contain way too much gluten. The one tough part is if you do eat a ton of gluten, you will get some heavy duty carb cravings when you all of the sudden cut it out because most of the stuff containing gluten also has a lot of carbs.


----------



## Merlin

torndownunit said:


> The things people have a tough time with are pastas, cereals, and breads. You have to eliminate those or use alternatives. In some cases it's easy, like just eating fruit or eggs etc for breakfast instead of cereal. Most major grocery stores have a gluten free section now that has pastas. You can also get them at Bulk Barn for about the same price as normal pasta. They are generally made from rice flour. Bread is a tougher one. I just try to avoid it. But you can get bread made from potato flour that isn't horrible.
> 
> I don't think I have a bad gluten intolerance. But even at that I feel a million times better when I don't eat it. For people with a sensitivity or celiac disease, which people generally have no idea they have, it can cause major issues that they attribute to other things. You will know very quickly if it will benefit you.
> 
> If you just eat lot's of fruit, vegetables, nuts, legumes, and meat (if you eat meat) it's not an issue anyway. It's not really a restrictive diet. Some people's diets just contain way too much gluten. The one tough part is if you do eat a ton of gluten, you will get some heavy duty carb cravings when you all of the sudden cut it out because most of the stuff containing gluten also has a lot of carbs.


We don't bother with many of the commercially available alternatives. We do make biscuits and breads with almond flour, ground flaxseed and chickpea flour.

Once you've been away from gluten for a while, you may find your sweet cravings go away. Ours certainly have, and many other things taste even more vivid now. I'm eating a lot more leafy greens than I used to.


----------



## jimsz

Thanks for all the feedback, gents. I think I'll let sleeping dogs lie on this one and try to lead by example rather than preach.

At our last gig, one of my bandmates thought I was high on cocaine because I was moving and jumping around all night, he couldn't believe I had so much energy. lol


----------



## Milkman

I had a great workout this evening. Tonight was cardio, arms and core. I went to failure on pretty much every strength activity.

I'll feel that on Friday. Right now I'm kicking back in my lazy boy behind a nice bud (vaporizer).


Weight is dead nuts in spec at 185 lbs.


Life is good.


----------



## smorgdonkey

:food-smiley-004:


----------



## smorgdonkey

210 at the weigh-in today. It's been about 2 or 3 years since I was 210.


----------



## keto

keto said:


> I've been going at it pretty good since Christmas - got an exercise bike, and brought some dumbells out of storage. Haven't really lost weight, but that's not really my goal...I don't have a clearly defined end goal, just want to get more fit. 6'0" and pretty steady around 182-3 lbs, but have lots more energy and strength. If I were more diligent about what I eat, I could probably get to 175 but that's not #1 priority just now. In my dreams, I'd drop a pant size or 2 and flatten my tummy, but even when I was REALLY fit and strong 20 years ago I never really sported a 6-pack, even at 150-155 lbs.


Continuing on, I seem to be going about a pound a week down without really watching what I eat....this is totally OK with me, at 6'0" and 180 (under this week, meaningless but nice to see on the scale at 179.X) I'll never be accused of being obese. 2 or 3 nights a week starting with 20-30 min on the bike, some nights mostly weights, some nights mostly stretching/core/balance board but anyways a solid hour 5 or 6 nights a week. Tightened up 1 notch on the belt, but not like I'll be running out for new pants just yet.

Man, I have to quit smoking tho /rolleyes


----------



## smorgdonkey

Great stuff keto. I agree on the smokes...I have a girl that has been a long time smoker and I'd love to see her be able to put them behind her.

I am in a 209 to 210 tennis match bouncing between them. Feeling really good though and not driving to drop any more at the moment. I think I am gearing up to go on another push and drop 10 more though - not because of any reason other than I'd like to know if I would feel better carrying a little less. 

I just had a visit with my doctor for a 'paranoid non-issue' and after that was taken care of he did my blood pressure which came out at 100 over 80. I got some blood work done too because I had nothing on my file and I haven't seen him in quite a while so he said that being 45 years of age, I should have a general blood work done just for some general precaution to look at sugars and organ function.


----------



## Milkman

In about an hour I'll drop my son at work and hit the gym. I love weekend morning workouts. There's usually fewer people there and those who are, aren't there to socialize.

My weight is very stable, although I'm sure my body fat content continues to decline.


I wish I had had my epiphany a few years (or decades) earlier, but better late than never.


I did have to buy all new clothes as I went from a 38" waist to a 30" and quite frankly, the 38" pants were all popping at the waist.


It was strange and amusing to buy jeans in the same size I wore in high school again.


My age is apparent when you look at my face, but from the neck down, it's better than it was when I was.....well, ever.


----------



## Diablo

Bought a set of adjustable dumbells at Costco last week (FYI, it's around this time of year that Costco starts discounting their ffitness equipment to clear it out).
going to start a basic weight routine every other day.

we're moving in about 2 months and still showing our house, so unfortunately can't put together a proper gym with cardio machines yet, but it's top of the list for when we settle in to our new place. Going to add an elliptical and recumbent bike and maybe a smith or cable machine.

feels like spring is coming, so will be breaking out the hybrid bike soon!


----------



## smorgdonkey

A set of dumbells can be the best investment that a person can make.

If you search the net for comprehensive dumbell routines I am certain that you can find some awesome stuff.


----------



## Milkman

I like the adjustable dumb-bells a lot. Very efficient. With those and a little creative thought, you can get seriously jacked if you want to.

Cardio is very important though.


----------



## Guitar101

I know their for working out but why do they call them dumb-bells?

And "Milkman", what did you do with your size 38" waist jeans? Any chance their a 30" leg?


----------



## Milkman

Guitar101 said:


> I know their for working out but why do they call them dumb-bells?
> 
> And "Milkman", what did you do with your size 38" waist jeans? Any chance their a 30" leg?


Sorry, LOL. Long gone to the Sally Ann.

They were a 32 leg.


----------



## Merlin

I'm down 28 pounds since NYE. My waist size is down from 42" to 38".

Since banishing grains from my diet, my sweet tooth has been eliminated. Anything sweeter than 80% dark chocolate these days tastes too sweet for my palate. Haven't really missed beer. I've found a lot of really good, and not too pricey red wines, both VQA Ontario and Australian.

I recently celebrated my 50th birthday with a weekend getaway to Niagara Falls. I was up at the blackjack table, and still down on the scales, despite having dined at Ruth's Chris Steak House while I was there.


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## Milkman

Congrats Merlin!

That's a healthy rate to lose the weight and that's measureable progress.

I'm sure you feel much better in a number of ways.

Good on ya!


----------



## smorgdonkey

Yes - congratulations! That's massive improvement for a fairly short time.

No problem having a steak once in a while either!


----------



## Merlin

Actually, I eat steak about once a week. 

And aside from walking the dog, I don't really exercise.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Merlin said:


> And aside from walking the dog, I don't really exercise.



HA!! Well, that wouldn't be my recommendation but being lighter, generally speaking, is a better situation for most people.


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## Milkman

Losing weight really doesn't require any exercise.

Diet is the most effective way to accomplish that.

The exercise comes in when you want to actually improve cardio / respiratory health and / or to build muscle.

Not everyone is willing, able or inclined to do this.

For me, it has become an addiction and a part of my daily routine.

The cool thing is, once your metabolism is jacked up from all the exercise, you can sin your ass off on holiday weekends like Easter and not pay a heavy price. I had an almost orgiastic chocolate frenzy on the weekend and gained less than a half pound which was gone by Monday night.


----------



## corailz

Big thumb s up Milkman really!Congrats, you looks in great shape!


----------



## Milkman

I've decided to try a little running.

I always avoided it before because I worried about the impact on my joints.

Last week I found myself running through Detroit Metro airport carrying a briefcase and it actually felt sort of good.

Then, coincidentally I sat beside a guy on the flight who was an avid distance runner. Typically I don't bother chatting with other passengers, but he noticed I was wearing a runners windbreaker and asked if I was a runner.

That conversation made me think a little and I decided to give it a try. I'm starting by adding some treadmill running at the end of my normal workouts.

After that I'd like to try some 2k~5k runs on the beautiful trails along the river near my home.

Well, time to head to the gym.

Chest, core, and cardio today!


----------



## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> That conversation made me think a little and I decided to give it a try. I'm starting by adding some treadmill running at the end of my normal workouts.
> 
> After that I'd like to try some 2k~5k runs on the beautiful trails along the river near my home.
> 
> Well, time to head to the gym.
> 
> Chest, core, and cardio today!


It certainly can give you some unique adrenaline and endorphin rushes. Also, the option to do your cardio outside when weather is nice is awesome compared to hitting it inside on a treadmill all of the time.


----------



## Milkman

smorgdonkey said:


> It certainly can give you some unique adrenaline and endorphin rushes. Also, the option to do your cardio outside when weather is nice is awesome compared to hitting it inside on a treadmill all of the time.


Yeah I'm thinking the solitude will be a nice change as well.

I've been doing my cardio on an eliptical / stair climber for a couple of years and I think I'm ready to move to the next step.

I'll take it slow at first.


----------



## Short Circuit

My weight loss adventure started with a trip to the nutritionist due to the fact I had become lactose intolerant.
About a week before the appointment I was getting dressed and realized I was having trouble putting on my socks. I had a look in the mirror and decided it was time for a change.
The nutritionist talked to us about what I should be eating and I told her I wanted to lose 50 lbs.
So, now I eat mostly brown with no or very little white and portion control, portion control, portion control!!!!!
Also lots of raw veggies.
I have breakfast and eat every 2 hours(thats when my stomach starts to grumble) a sandwich on brown bread for lunch and a decent portion controlled supper.
I also drink 6 - 8 24 oz bottles of water a day and do a very brisk walk on a treadmill for 1 hour a day.
No food after 8 pm.
I dont deprive myself of snacks, just have 1 - 5 ginger snaps a day instead of 30 at one sitting(I kid you not!)
So I am 5' 10" tall and when I started this 7 weeks ago I was 256 1/2 lbs.
As of my weigh in on Friday I am 224 lbs.
So I will lose the rest and see where I will go from there
It would be nice to be under 200 lbs though....... 

Also now my guitar hangs down in front of me not out in front of me :rockon2:

Mark


----------



## Adcandour

I had to lose weight for a hernia operation at the shouldice clinic. 

They gave me a carb free diet (no corn, beans, or honey) so I could lose 20 pounds in 3 months. It worked. 

They make you do it, so u heal quicker. I did the shouldice shuffle for about a week and then was fine.


----------



## Milkman

Well, as has been said, losing weight is really not the hard part (at least for me it wasn't).

The hard part is getting in shape. That takes active work.


----------



## Milkman

Short Circuit said:


> My weight loss adventure started with a trip to the nutritionist due to the fact I had become lactose intolerant.
> About a week before the appointment I was getting dressed and realized I was having trouble putting on my socks. I had a look in the mirror and decided it was time for a change.
> The nutritionist talked to us about what I should be eating and I told her I wanted to lose 50 lbs.
> So, now I eat mostly brown with no or very little white and portion control, portion control, portion control!!!!!
> Also lots of raw veggies.
> I have breakfast and eat every 2 hours(thats when my stomach starts to grumble) a sandwich on brown bread for lunch and a decent portion controlled supper.
> I also drink 6 - 8 24 oz bottles of water a day and do a very brisk walk on a treadmill for 1 hour a day.
> No food after 8 pm.
> I dont deprive myself of snacks, just have 1 - 5 ginger snaps a day instead of 30 at one sitting(I kid you not!)
> So I am 5' 10" tall and when I started this 7 weeks ago I was 256 1/2 lbs.
> As of my weigh in on Friday I am 224 lbs.
> So I will lose the rest and see where I will go from there
> It would be nice to be under 200 lbs though.......
> 
> Also now my guitar hangs down in front of me not out in front of me :rockon2:
> 
> Mark


It sounds like you're starting from a similar point as I did a couple of years ago (well, April 24, 2010 to be exact).

With some effort 180 is probably a realistic target for you depending on your frame and body type.

Congrats on taking the most important step, making the decision to change direction.


----------



## Merlin

I'm now below the 200 pound mark for the first time in several years. That's 36 pounds off in 4 months. Once I get below 190 I'll be merely overweight, instead of obese.


----------



## Milkman

Merlin said:


> I'm now below the 200 pound mark for the first time in several years. That's 36 pounds off in 4 months. Once I get below 190 I'll be merely overweight, instead of obese.



Awesome! Now, the trick IMO is to make this a life change, not just a series of short term goals.

Once you've been big like you and I have, you have to be vigilant. Unless you change the conditions that led you to the problem, it's too easy to backslide.

For me at least, this is reality. I had to change my habits, diet and set new standards.

So far, it's working. I've kept the weight off for two years now and continue to become fitter.

Best of luck!


----------



## Merlin

Milkman said:


> Awesome! Now, the trick IMO is to make this a life change, not just a series of short term goals.
> 
> Once you've been big like you and I have, you have to be vigilant. Unless you change the conditions that led you to the problem, it's too easy to backslide.
> 
> For me at least, this is reality. I had to change my habits, diet and set new standards.
> 
> So far, it's working. I've kept the weight off for two years now and continue to become fitter.
> 
> Best of luck!


This is it for me. No going back to grains, though I'll add back some tubers at maintenance level. If I can thrive on something for 4 month, I can do it permanently.


----------



## Milkman

Merlin said:


> This is it for me. No going back to grains, though I'll add back some tubers at maintenance level. If I can thrive on something for 4 month, I can do it permanently.


Right on. You have to know what works for you. No two people are the same. I didn't eliminate basic stuff, but I don't eat fast food anymore and try to make as many healthy choices each day as I can.


----------



## 10409

Between being self employed (aka hiring people to do the hard work) and destroying my metabolism with a baby who didn't sleep through the night for the first two years of her life, I went from a slightly underweight 175 to an awkward looking 230. This year I took my old job back as lead installer for a roofing company and in the last 6 weeks I've gone down to 210...no external exercise except for work, no special diet. I don't really have any fitness goals except to not be giggled at while I'm at the beach, but I'm pretty happy with the results of honest hard work so far.


----------



## Milkman

That's a good short term solution and will definitely have an impact.

My job is just not like that. You're most likely a decade or two younger than I am also. There will likely come a time when you no longer want to do roofing or other physical labour. That's when other measures may be more of a factor for you.

In the mean time, you're being paid to get in shape. Take advantage for as long as you can.


----------



## 10409

that time (when i no longer want to do physical labour) came several years ago...and i did get out of the labour end of it (for the most part...no matter which way you slice it there's always physical labour in roofing) but found out that full time hard work was the only thing keeping me happy and in shape. I like having a set schedule...waking up every morning knowing that there's a job for me to do. not having to worry if i go a couple weeks without getting a contract signed. I feel better about myself now than i have for the last couple years, even though i've taken about a 40% pay cut.

while there are many people i've worked with over the last decade that were doing this job into their 50's and 60's, that's nowhere in my life plan. I'll have to think of a way to keep in shape when the day comes that i hang up the gloves again to be a coach, but that's a bridge i'll cross in a couple years at the earliest.


----------



## Milkman

mike_oxbig said:


> that time (when i no longer want to do physical labour) came several years ago...and i did get out of the labour end of it (for the most part...no matter which way you slice it there's always physical labour in roofing) but found out that full time hard work was the only thing keeping me happy and in shape. I like having a set schedule...waking up every morning knowing that there's a job for me to do. not having to worry if i go a couple weeks without getting a contract signed. I feel better about myself now than i have for the last couple years, even though i've taken about a 40% pay cut.
> 
> while there are many people i've worked with over the last decade that were doing this job into their 50's and 60's, that's nowhere in my life plan. I'll have to think of a way to keep in shape when the day comes that i hang up the gloves again to be a coach, but that's a bridge i'll cross in a couple years at the earliest.



I hear you man, but those guys who are still slugging it out on the rooftops in their 50s and 60s very likely have some chronic pain and injuries that do NOT promote a healthy body later in life. It's good to have an exit strategy and you seem to have that in mind.

My job is not structured much but I'm always busy, far too busy most days. I never know when I'm going to be called to action somewhere and while that isn't for everyone, I rest easy in the knowledge that my company values my efforts.

I just don't get much exercise at work other than running through airports catching connecting flights.


----------



## Short Circuit

Milkman said:


> It sounds like you're starting from a similar point as I did a couple of years ago (well, April 24, 2010 to be exact).
> 
> With some effort 180 is probably a realistic target for you depending on your frame and body type.
> 
> Congrats on taking the most important step, making the decision to change direction.


Thanks Milkman
I actually look forward to that hour on the treadmill after supper. It seems to help me wind down after a day of work

Mark


----------



## keto

I've just realized my weight is fine.


----------



## Milkman

keto said:


> I've just realized my weight is fine.


Dude, that's freaking awesome.

I damn near peed myself. F#%k all these crunches and situps. I'm getting one of these, LMAO.


----------



## keto

'Recommended by [email protected]!!!' Priceless.


----------



## Milkman

Well, I'm still working on the six pack but I'm happy with my progress towards better heart health.

When I started working on this (April 24, 2010) my BP was measuring dangerously high. I don't remember the exact reading but it was around 189 over 130 (crazy high).

My doctor wanted me on pills immediately. When I asked her how long I would have to take them she said probably for the rest of my life.

This is my BP yesterday. I took it at the pharmacy in a grocery store and had been carrying a basket of food around the store so if anything it might me a slightly high reading.

No pills, just diet and exercise. No, it's not perfect, but not bad enough to warrant pills anymore, and slowly but steadily improving.


----------



## 10409

I'm still about 10lbs over my weight goal (if you can call it that...really just the number i expect to reach once i've burned off the fat that's accumulated from the last couple years of laziness) but this is the results of 2 months of steady work. no diet, no voluntary exercise, just a full time labour intensive job.

Start of april (230lbs): http://i.imgur.com/dmQmwRw.jpg

Today: (205lbs) http://i.imgur.com/EZyD1Um.jpg

*Warning - i'm not wearing a shirt in the pictures. sorry.*


----------



## Frank Fargon

mike_oxbig said:


> I'm still about 10lbs over my weight goal (if you can call it that...really just the number i expect to reach once i've burned off the fat that's accumulated from the last couple years of laziness) but this is the results of 2 months of steady work. no diet, no voluntary exercise, just a full time labour intensive job.Start of april (230lbs): http://i.imgur.com/dmQmwRw.jpgToday: (205lbs) http://i.imgur.com/EZyD1Um.jpg*Warning - i'm not wearing a shirt in the pictures. sorry.*


Thats a good progression sir!.And i just can imagine the amazing result you would get adding nutrition and push-ups in the mix.As a farmer,i get my fair share of hard work,i get ripped during my working season and fat during winter.


----------



## Frank Fargon

Milkman said:


> Thanks for the replies guys.
> 
> i turn 52 in December. I can safely say I am in better shape now than at any time in my adult life.
> 
> Some of that is pure luck. It isn't lost on me how different my climb would be if I had a chronic back or leg injury.


Wow!! Man, you did a great job,you look amazing...and ya arms and shoulders look strong too
keep up the good work..I really hope i'll look that good in 20 years )


----------



## Milkman

Thanks Frank.

It's a work in progress, and it's still fun.

I did a heavy leg day this morning.

Tomorrow morning will be chest, abs, cardio.

By the way, that picture is almost a year old.

My weight is almost exactly the same now, but I think I look a bit leaner.


This is Thursday afternoon.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

I gained  Hard to get the heart rate up with a gimpy leg. Would probably help a lot if I stopped shoveling so much stuff down my gullet too.


----------



## Milkman

Jim DaddyO said:


> I gained  Hard to get the heart rate up with a gimpy leg. Would probably help a lot if I stopped shoveling so much stuff down my gullet too.


I probably sound like a broken record as my Mom and Dad would put it, but if you look at your weight and fitness in the way that most money managers would recommend you look at your RRSPs it's not so important when you gain a few pounds in the short term.

Having said that, I must confess that I monitor my weight carefully. I allow myself plus or minus five pounds from my chosen weight 185 lbs, but I may have to rethink this as I seem to be slowly adding muscle and that will bring extra weight.


And, yes, diet is everything. You can beat yourself half to death with exercise but without changes to the diet you'll likely have limited success with weight control.

Hang in there and try to look at the big picture.


----------



## Frank Fargon

In my better days,after 5 years of intense training
View attachment 3349

Peace 
Frank


----------



## Frank Fargon

Milkman said:


> Thanks Frank.
> 
> It's a work in progress, and it's still fun.
> 
> I did a heavy leg day this morning.
> 
> Tomorrow morning will be chest, abs, cardio.
> 
> By the way, that picture is almost a year old.
> 
> My weight is almost exactly the same now, but I think I look a bit leaner.
> 
> 
> This is Thursday afternoon.


YEAH!! even better..Man! i will emailed the link to that thread to my father,so he can see that is possible to make some great changes.
Thanks again for sharing.
keep up the good work Mr. milkman!
Frank


----------



## Frank Fargon

View attachment 3355

thats my like a few weeks ago..i,m like 230lbs-225lbs,on this pic..with 36 waist,..5,11,tall 35yo 200..or les i,ll be having veins poping out of my shoulders..just by bending down to tight mt shoes..but were all built diffrently..my chest pic is from some time ago,i dont look like that anymore as you can see,loll,I used to be a 135lbs junkie-ish...Thats what i meant to tell you by posting this thread 
peace
Frank


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## GuitarsCanada

So ya, maybe its time to get on the bandwagon here. I have abused my body for 50 years now. Eaten more big macs, quarter pounders, KFC, Tacos, Fries, Whoppers and every other kind of grease soaked fast food you can think of to last 2-3 lifetimes. Went for a stress test a year ago, pump is working fine. BP is getting up there but still within the safety zone. Cholesterol same thing. Getting up there but still workable. So basically I am at a turning point. One in which the variable are still in my control right now. Another year or so and some of those variables may no longer be in control. So it's kind of a now or never type of thing.


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## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> So ya, maybe its time to get on the bandwagon here. I have abused my body for 50 years now. Eaten more big macs, quarter pounders, KFC, Tacos, Fries, Whoppers and every other kind of grease soaked fast food you can think of to last 2-3 lifetimes. Went for a stress test a year ago, pump is working fine. BP is getting up there but still within the safety zone. Cholesterol same thing. Getting up there but still workable. So basically I am at a turning point. One in which the variable are still in my control right now. Another year or so and some of those variables may no longer be in control. So it's kind of a now or never type of thing.


If you're one of the lucky few who have made it to middle age withOUT chronic knee or back problems, congratulations! Anything is possible.

I was nasty to my body until I was around 49. Now I'm trying to be nicer to myself.


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## GuitarsCanada

Milkman said:


> If you're one of the lucky few who have made it to middle age withOUT chronic knee or back problems, congratulations! Anything is possible.
> 
> I was nasty to my body until I was around 49. Now I'm trying to be nicer to myself.


I would say nothing chronic. I can blow out my back pretty easy if I try to do something crazy. But thats basically being out of shape. No knee issues at all other then a little creaking in the mornings. So far so good in terms of any major aches or pains


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## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> I would say nothing chronic. I can blow out my back pretty easy if I try to do something crazy. But thats basically being out of shape. No knee issues at all other then a little creaking in the mornings. So far so good in terms of any major aches or pains



It's funny and maybe a bit ironic, but I wonder if the reason I have such an undamaged body is because I was such a couch potato for most of my life.

Most of my buddies who were more athletic in their younger days are now pretty f$#ked when it comes to physical activity.


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## GuitarsCanada

Milkman said:


> It's funny and maybe a bit ironic, but I wonder if the reason I have such an undamaged body is because I was such a couch potato for most of my life.
> 
> Most of my buddies who were more athletic in their younger days are now pretty f$#ked when it comes to physical activity.


I am thinking the same thing for myself. I was a desk jockey for most of my working life and basically semi retired with the shop now. So no abuse in terms of work or sports. Basically quit playing organized sports before I was 20 and then maybe some softball and stuff during my 20s and 30's But I know a lot of guys that played pick-up hockey for years and years and some of them have totally blown out knees now.


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## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> I am thinking the same thing for myself. I was a desk jockey for most of my working life and basically semi retired with the shop now. So no abuse in terms of work or sports. Basically quit playing organized sports before I was 20 and then maybe some softball and stuff during my 20s and 30's But I know a lot of guys that played pick-up hockey for years and years and some of them have totally blown out knees now.


Knees, backs, can't lift the arms above their shoulders, et cetera, et cetera.

I have a three step plan.

1. Fat and lazy through my thirties and fourties
2. Slim down and build muscle through my fifties
3. Prepare for 2024 Olympics (I'll be 63)

I suppose I'll have to get good at some sport thing.


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## Short Circuit

Its nice to read about everyone's weight loss here
For my update I am down to 216 lbs and started biking last week (when it hasn't been raining)
I try to stay on the bike for an hour which is around 22 km's for me.
I was originally shooting for a 50 lb weight loss but I think I will go a bit further than that to get below 200 lbs.

Mark


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## Milkman

Short Circuit said:


> Its nice to read about everyone's weight loss here
> For my update I am down to 216 lbs and started biking last week (when it hasn't been raining)
> I try to stay on the bike for an hour which is around 22 km's for me.
> I was originally shooting for a 50 lb weight loss but I think I will go a bit further than that to get below 200 lbs.
> 
> Mark


Right on man!

Keep banging away. It only gets better from here.


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## Ship of fools

Milkman today was my first day back after having my left hip redone in early April since being out of the gym I gained some good weight ( yeah right ) so I am now starting at 220# my goal weight is to get back around to 180 today was just a light day to get the body use to the idea of some pain again ( differnt type ) so did some light press's of 20lbs overhead 15x4, bench press 80lbs x 5, arm pulls 80lb sx 5 and finished with some leg press's 3x60lbs and then 3x100lbs just the right leg as that one is the most painful muscle left will see what my weight is in 1 week? ship....................oh did I mention holy crappers it hurts at 60 it was so much easier at 55


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## Milkman

Ship of fools said:


> Milkman today was my first day back after having my left hip redone in early April since being out of the gym I gained some good weight ( yeah right ) so I am now starting at 220# my goal weight is to get back around to 180 today was just a light day to get the body use to the idea of some pain again ( differnt type ) so did some light press's of 20lbs overhead 15x4, bench press 80lbs x 5, arm pulls 80lb sx 5 and finished with some leg press's 3x60lbs and then 3x100lbs just the right leg as that one is the most painful muscle left will see what my weight is in 1 week? ship....................oh did I mention holy crappers it hurts at 60 it was so much easier at 55


Wow, it's great to hear you're using the gym as a part of your recovery. Leg press and leg extensions with light weights as well as some cardio work either on a bike or an eliptical would be my first approach I think.

I would think gentle but firm stretching might be very helpful as well.

Best of luck and please keep us posted.


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## Merlin

Down to 192 this a.m. That's 43 pounds so far. One more pound, and my BMI will be merely overweight, instead of obese.


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## Milkman

Merlin said:


> Down to 192 this a.m. That's 43 pounds so far. One more pound, and my BMI will be merely overweight, instead of obese.


That may seem like a small discinction to others, but it was an important milestone for me.

According to the olde charts, I'm still overweight, but I'll be damned if I want to look like a death camp victim. I would have to lose another 8 pounds to get to 177. 

Frankly I think I'm already a bit too skinny at 185.


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## Frank Fargon

just eat bacon...and dont give a fuck...do you really want to live for ever in that crappy world!?
I DONT!! BACON!!!


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## Milkman

Not forever, but longer than most.
Anyway, quality of life is much better when you're in shape.


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## Merlin

Frank Fargon said:


> just eat bacon...and dont give a fuck...do you really want to live for ever in that crappy world!?
> I DONT!! BACON!!!


I eat bacon all the time!

Breakfast today included 6 slices.


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## Milkman

And I'll likely have some for breakfast tomorrow.

Cutting out bacon is only necessary if you eat it by the boatload.

Moderation is the key.


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## Short Circuit

Milkman said:


> Right on man!
> 
> Keep banging away. It only gets better from here.


Thanks Milkman
I did ride about 30 km on my bike yesterday and started out this morning but it started to rain so I only got about 3 kms in. But it was an all out 3 kms to get back before I melted lol.
I was going to ride from my house to Cayuga and back today which would be about 28 km but the weather is not so good and I don't like riding in the rain.
Looks like a treadmill kind of day
I am really getting addicted to biking though.

Mark


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## Milkman

Sounds like you're finding ways to make it fun and rewarding as opposed to a task or punishment.


That's a key factor in your success IMO.

Today I had a result I'm thrilled with and well, maybe a a bit proud too.

The reason I started this whole trip was because my doctor wanted me on blood pressure pills for life based on a couple of dangerously high readings.

No pills.


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## arketah1

Frank Fargon said:


> just eat bacon...and dont give a fuck...do you really want to live for ever in that crappy world!?
> I DONT!! BACON!!!


 Really ? Are you sure.


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## Ship of fools

week 2 and I am down to 215 1/2 a good loss so far and its been a fun ride so far and for Frank well I did have 3 pieces of bacon so I did go extra longer on the treadmill and it actually felt pretty good bllod pressure is doing really great 115 over 70 pulse was at a steady 70. Can't wait to see what next week brings with the better weather coming means more walking and lots of great fruit and fresh veggies from the farms, yummy.ship


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## Milkman

Ship of fools said:


> week 2 and I am down to 215 1/2 a good loss so far and its been a fun ride so far and for Frank well I did have 3 pieces of bacon so I did go extra longer on the treadmill and it actually felt pretty good bllod pressure is doing really great 115 over 70 pulse was at a steady 70. Can't wait to see what next week brings with the better weather coming means more walking and lots of great fruit and fresh veggies from the farms, yummy.ship


Attaboy Ship!

Slow but steady wins the race.


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## Ship of fools

Thanks Milkman I am hoping this week to do a bit better as I have increased my cardio on the treadmill and have been more active around places by parking further away and having to walk even more. I would like to see the weight loss around 5 lbs per week for the first 6 and then 2-3 lbs after that.


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## Ship of fools

*Crap*

Going through muscle memory and because I have always lifted heavy weights ( my best bench press was 350 lbs, my best dead lift was over 495 lbson a murphy stand ) so instead of loosing more weight I am finding I am bulking up even at very lite weights so my weight loss is only down to 213 I was hoping for around 210 but at least its down after week 3. I guess I am going to have to treadmill more on Thursday.ship


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## Short Circuit

Congrats to everyone on the weight loss and fitness training
I am now down to 211 lbs.
I am finding it hard to find the time to bicycle in the evenings, I just seem to be so busy for some reason. I may have to start getting up early and cycling before I go off to work. 
My house sits on just about an acre of land and I have been cutting it with a push mower instead of my rider. It takes me about 2 1/2 hours to do and I am pretty tired when I'm done but it's worth the workout.

Mark


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## Milkman

Last week I was doing some heavy landscaping every day in addition to the gym. I dropped 8 yards of topsoil in my back yard and raked, leveled and packed it down by hand. Lots of heavy slugging and sweat.

This week I'm in Nashville (leaving tomorrow) so I'm giving myself a breather. I always lose weight on trips anyway.

I expect to weigh in at around 183 when I return.


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## smorgdonkey

Ship of fools said:


> Going through muscle memory and because I have always lifted heavy weights ( my best bench press was 350 lbs, my best dead lift was over 495 lbson a murphy stand ) so instead of loosing more weight I am finding I am bulking up even at very lite weights so my weight loss is only down to 213 I was hoping for around 210 but at least its down after week 3. I guess I am going to have to treadmill more on Thursday.ship


Just realize that most weight loss stalls a bit here and there. Keep the good spirits of the big losses and trim a little food intake plus bump up the activity...that will pay dividends.


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## Milkman

I've been on vacation all week. The missus had to work so it's a staycation, but I love those. I've done some little repairs and improvements around the house, bought a little Gibby and will take delivery of a new(ish) car this evening.

Other than that, it's been a fantastic week for working out. That whole day job thing really interferes with life doesn't it?

So, everyday I've been at the gym around 8:00 (they were open right through the long weekend) and finished around 10:00~10:30.

I was able to really focus on form and control. I'm still right in spec at 187 Lbs. Today was a leg / core / cardio day. Doing legs really kicks your butt (if you do it right), but seems to be my favourite day lately.


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## smorgdonkey

Coincidence! I have been on vacation this week too. No workouts and lots of house projects...keeping my diet high quality even if a minor (or major) infraction makes its way in. Feeling fantastic. This week I am off too so I am going to get in some 'morning' workouts to tune up before returning to work in a week. Sometimes a week off can really help the joints.


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## Ship of fools

Gotta love vacation time and the sunny weather, gets me out of the house even more so. well its week 5 coming and down to 211, so and steady I guess is the only way still trying to not size up.ship
any of you notice any tummy changes, mines has been up and down lately maybe to much fruit and veggies


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## Milkman

Hmmm, I have to say this doesn't really surprise me. I visit Mexico often (usually around five or six times a year) on business and yes, they're getting big.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2013/07/08/20959261.html



Back off America, there's a new heavyweight in town. 
Mexico has overtaken the United States as the world's fattest nation, according to a newly released United Nations report. The report, which measures obesity in the world's more populous nations, shows that approximately 70% of Mexico's adult population is considered overweight, and nearly 33% are obese


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## Short Circuit

Another update
I had to weigh myself 4 times this morning just to verify what I was seeing, and I was seeing 205 1/2 lbs...which means I have surpassed my weight loss goal of 50 lbs and now am on the quest to get below 200 lbs.
Yay for me !!!!!sdsre

Mark


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## Milkman

Short Circuit said:


> Another update
> I had to weigh myself 4 times this morning just to verify what I was seeing, and I was seeing 205 1/2 lbs...which means I have surpassed my weight loss goal of 50 lbs and now am on the quest to get below 200 lbs.
> Yay for me !!!!!sdsre
> 
> Mark


Right on and congrats!

Wile the numbers are not the real measure of your progress, cracking 200 was an important milestone for me as well.

Smash your way through that target man!

It's just after 7:00 AM here. In about an hour I'll be sweating to the oldies, LOL.

Today is back / Core / cardio.


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## Ship of fools

Man with the hot weather I am not loosing any weight I am stuck even though I have increased my cardio my H2O intake is high and my weight is all over the place, also I am still gaining in muscle mass and I do not want big chest or giant arms again, just more definition and some serious weight loss. Well still at 212#'s. Next week we will concentrate more on core and stay with the cardio I am doing now and maybe increase my leg. But then at the same time its only been 3 1/2 months since my hip surgery so I guess its not bad. Still want to drop another 42 lbs so slow and steady. I think I need more AC/DC to start with.ship
Oh and will not eat any bread for the next week


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## Milkman

Hang in there ship. It's all about the long haul.

I found I was having to dial back the cardio a bit during the heat wave we had last week. I was dropping weight I didn't want to lose. Plus, even with central air, as soon as I picked up a barbell I was soaked.

I'm one of those people who sweats a lot. I understand why people do it, but when I see someone working out with a hooded sweatshirt and long track pants it's shocking to me.


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## Short Circuit

Thanks Milkman,
Ship, I seemed to have stayed at a certain weight for a while no matter what I did I could not lose any.
Then one week it started coming off again.

Mark


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## Jim DaddyO

I started out wanting to lose 20 pounds by the end of summer, I have 30 pounds to go!hwopv


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## Ship of fools

It does take me a while to really get a good sweat going. I know as we get older our testosterone reduces as much as 50% at my age and it really doesn't help my cause being hypothyrodic ( By Mayo Clinic staff Hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid) is a condition in which your thyroid gland doesn't produce enough of certain important hormones. 
Women, especially those older than age 60, are more likely to have hypothyroidism. Hypothyroidism upsets the normal balance of chemical reactions in your body. It seldom causes symptoms in the early stages, but, over time, untreated hypothyroidism can cause a number of health problems, such as obesity, joint pain, infertility and heart disease. 
The good news is that accurate thyroid function tests are available to diagnose hypothyroidism, and treatment of hypothyroidism with synthetic thyroid hormone is usually simple, safe and effective once you and your doctor find the right dose for you. )
And also being somewhat disabled is not helping my cause and then the old polio its feels like sometimes I am on a loosing battle, but what the hell I have learned to fight all of my life and will not let these little things get in my way of getting to my goal ( even if it kills me { not really } but you get what I mean ) oh and the synthroid helps to some degree but my freakin counts can be all over the place. 
But I keep going and will till I reach some degree of weight loss I am getting to old to continue to carry this shit around the extra 42 lbs that is so thanks guys I will keep at it.ship


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## Ship of fools

Yahoo I finally broke 210 but boy what a lot of work that was.ship


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## Milkman

Ship of fools said:


> Yahoo I finally broke 210 but boy what a lot of work that was.ship


As gross as it would be, I'd love to see all the sweat I left on the gym floor over the three years I've been working out, accumulated in a barrel just to see how much there would be.

For every gram of fat......


Congrats Ship. I know how hard it is but we both know it's a good investment.


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## Merlin

I'm now down fifty pounds from my starting weight. Staying the course.


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## smorgdonkey

If you are at a plateau with weight loss try shaking up your diet for a week.

There are some quick fixes that are good to kick start things like:
-stop consuming sugar
-stop consuming dairy products
-stop eating peanuts
-stop eating things with gluten (the quick n easy here is to avoid wheat)
-stop consuming soy products (if you are a soy milk person go to almond milk)
-no corn
-no eggs

That is the backbone of one of the fad diets going around right now ( jj V ir gin drop 7 p ound s in 7 da ys) but those foods are ones that do cause a lot of issues and significant weight loss can be achieved by avoiding them. There is plenty to eat aside from those things. Keep it clean...the stuff that has been changed by humans the least is the best.


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## Ship of fools

Good on you Merlin thats not easy to do and Milkman I left a bucket full in the gym today but feel pretty good for it except that I am feeling that I might have gotten myself into a bit of trouble with walking pneumonia. Sure bringing up a lot of phelm.ship
207 today
Anybody try the green coffee bean extract yet they say it suppose to help break down fat cells and help you to loose weight


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## Milkman

Merlin said:


> I'm now down fifty pounds from my starting weight. Staying the course.



Right on. Just for a laugh, try this.

Go into the meat department and pick up 50 pounds of meat (fat would be more accurate but....).

Now try to imagine carrying that all day every day. Even though you are intimately aware of the differences you feel, I'll bet you'll be shocked.

Congratulations are not enough of a pat on the back by a long shot.


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## Ship of fools

Forced 10 day sabatical, turns out I do have walking Pneumonia so no gym for 10 days, crappers.ship


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## Milkman

Wow, that sucks. I guess the doctors will say to stay away from the gym.

I'm not so sure. I've had quicker recoveries when I did a little light cardio. It seems to clear things out.

Anyway, get well.


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## Shark

Ship of fools said:


> Forced 10 day sabatical, turns out I do have walking Pneumonia so no gym for 10 days, crappers.ship


Get better, dude. 

And, yeah, like MM said, once you start to feel better, try to sort of exercise. It gets the lymphatic system going, which helps to clear you out. I find swimming in a natural place the best thing and after that, light cardio. You want something that involves your whole body without taxing you.


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## Short Circuit

Get better so you can start exercising again.
I find it harder in the summer to stay the course in regards to food but I keep trying.
I am also down to 203 lbs now...........so close to the magic 200 number:rockon2:


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## Ship of fools

Well going to try the gym tomorrow, at least I have only gained a pound, so back to hard work if the breathing goes okay tomorrow.gonna try a nice long walk today and hopefully I won't fill up the lungs with to much.ship


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## Milkman

Short Circuit said:


> Get better so you can start exercising again.
> I find it harder in the summer to stay the course in regards to food but I keep trying.
> I am also down to 203 lbs now...........so close to the magic 200 number:rockon2:


Smash through that wall! Take no prisoners!

Shoot for 195. You can do it. And yes, it's about 70% diet.

The sense of pride and accomplishment you'll have is priceless.


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## Milkman

Ship of fools said:


> Well going to try the gym tomorrow, at least I have only gained a pound, so back to hard work if the breathing goes okay tomorrow.gonna try a nice long walk today and hopefully I won't fill up the lungs with to much.ship



Good to hear ship. Don't be alarmed if you cough a fair bit the first couple of days. I swear the best medicine is light cardio.

I have a history of bronchitis and pneumonia. I used to get sick as hell at least once a year and it would hang on for a month and sometimes more.

I don't seem to get sick like that since I started whipping myself into shape but when I do, I hit the gym, not the pharmacy.


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## Stratin2traynor

Congratulations on your efforts so far! I've really enjoyed reading this thread and though I would contribute my 2 cents.

I've been doing a lot of reading in the area of nutrition and it is widely believed that wheat/gluten allergies are largely responsible for thyroid disfunction. You may want to give up gluten if you haven't already. I did about 4 years ago and have never felt better. Another tip for anyone that is affected by gallbladder issues - there is almost a 100% correlation between gallbladder disease and gluten allergy. I had my gallbladder removed in 2003. I still miss it. Lol. 

As much as I LOVE freshly baked bread and pizza (yum) I have no regrets for giving up wheat.

As for your comments on testosterone, it is true that T declines somewhat as we age but it declines even faster as we get fat and sedentary. Stress and lack of sleep are also contributing factors. (Note: I am not a doctor, just someone of average intelligence that loves to learn new things. I try to fix myself since many doctors are more interested in treating the symptoms instead of identifying the underlying problem). Apparently there is something called hormone ?aromitization? that occurs as we get fat. Our bodies tend to convert T to estrogen (yikes!). This process can be reversed with weight loss. I'm done 40lbs from my heaviest with another 40lbs to lose. One thing that helped enormously was taking ZMA which is a Zinc Magnesium and Vitamin B supplement taken before bed. It helps with deep sleep. My T has gone up about 30% since I started using it. 




Ship of fools said:


> It does take me a while to really get a good sweat going. I know as we get older our testosterone reduces as much as 50% at my age and it really doesn't help my cause being hypothyrodic ( By Mayo Clinic staff Hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid) is a condition in which your thyroid gland doesn't produce enough of certain important hormones.
> Women, especially those older than age 60, are more likely to have hypothyroidism. Hypothyroidism upsets the normal balance of chemical reactions in your body. It seldom causes symptoms in the early stages, but, over time, untreated hypothyroidism can cause a number of health problems, such as obesity, joint pain, infertility and heart disease.
> The good news is that accurate thyroid function tests are available to diagnose hypothyroidism, and treatment of hypothyroidism with synthetic thyroid hormone is usually simple, safe and effective once you and your doctor find the right dose for you. )
> And also being somewhat disabled is not helping my cause and then the old polio its feels like sometimes I am on a loosing battle, but what the hell I have learned to fight all of my life and will not let these little things get in my way of getting to my goal ( even if it kills me { not really } but you get what I mean ) oh and the synthroid helps to some degree but my freakin counts can be all over the place.
> But I keep going and will till I reach some degree of weight loss I am getting to old to continue to carry this shit around the extra 42 lbs that is so thanks guys I will keep at it.ship


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## Ship of fools

Almost given up starches from breads down to only once a week now and I feel somewhat that it has helped and still eating 1/3 meat 1/3 veggies and 1/3 fruit for our dinner meal and Milkman its going to be light cardio and some light weights, got to make sure my chest and arms don't get as big as before. No 60 year old needs 20 in. arms and my wife hated it when I was chest heavy, she always complained that I looked like a barrel up top.ship
but I do need to stop eating pancakes raspbery blueberry man do they ever taste good.


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## Ship of fools

Holy crap that was painful today, managed only 5 minutes on the treadmill and thank goodness I decided to do the weights first. I started to sweat immediately and was gasping in less then 5 imnutes and knew it was best to stop instead of pushing to hard.Back in the gym on Thursday need a day of rest now.ship ab crunches ouch on the core


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## Milkman

For those who must struggle through pain from injuries, my son broke his femur on June 28. I was a bad break (3 places) and required 5 hours of surgery, titanium rod, screws, et cetera.

Today he had his first ride on his road bike (nice old Peugeot).

He still has lots of work to do to get back to form, but he's doing it. 

The guys I really take inspiration from in the gym are those who have obvious challenges, be they birth defects, injuries or simply neglect.

When I see those guys working their hearts our, I'm ashamed for even thinking about slacking.


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## Short Circuit

Happy to hear he is back on the bike and so quickly too.

I finally achieved my second goal. Stepped on the scales this morning and.........


199 lbs !!!!!!!

Yay for me :banana:

Only another 10 or so to go

Mark


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## Ship of fools

Great to hear that he is recovering not an easy injury either ouch, okay I have been slacking off and will not go back to the gym till next week been so under the weather from my illness that I had no energy and the slightest movement was causing some serious sweating. Its finally settling so back to work next week and I am happy to report only put on a single pound.so still under but short curcuit congrats thats a great milestone to cross.ship


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## jimsz

Have been doing P90X for about a year and a half now. I wear medium clothes now, not large. I accidentally broke off my friends kitchen water tap getting a drink of water and he said, 'You obviously don't know your own strength and when are you going to replace my tap?" I'm in the best shape of my life. I no longer crave or eat the foods I used to eat, but am eating healthy stuff all the time and enjoying it. My wife is constantly trying to get me in bed and can't keep her hands off me. That's to say nothing of the women who compliment me all the time and ask me if I'm single. (They seem to ignore the gold band on my finger). My level of confidence has soared like never before. I am invincible! 

I just received another set of videos, they are the "Ten Minute Trainer" videos for when you haven't got the time to do a one hour workout. Of course, I'm not trying to plug Tony's videos, but I certainly found a program that works wonders for me, personally. However, there are literally hundreds of thousand of others in the same boat. Apparently, p90x has sold 3 million copies.

It didn't take me 90 days, it took somewhat longer, but after a year and half, I'm starting to look like Tony. Of course, he's been working at it for more than 20 years.

We sold our treadmill, stationary bike and now have our home gym up for sale. They never get used anymore and never produced anywhere near the results. Now, we have only a few sets of hand weights, a pull-up bar and push-up handles. That's it. We can now utilize the real estate that was taken up by those, what we now consider, useless exercise machines.

Don't waste your coin on gyms and machines when you can use it instead to buy more guitars and amps. When you start to look like Tony Horton, your wife could care less about how many guitars and amps you own.


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## Milkman

Good for you. I know a few guys doing P90X or similar.

It all works, IF you use it.

If it's easy, you're probably doing it wrong.

It's a matter of finding what works gor you.

Congrats on the results.

Keep it up!

But, for me the gym IS the best solution.
I simply can't get into working out in a class or in front of a TV.
I work best on my own and in the environment that has all the devices and equipment I want.


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## Ship of fools

Well talk about bad luck I have a fracture in the left hip tore a muscle off the bone a few days ago and can barely move around without some medication in me, if I didn't have any bad luck lately I wouldn't have any luck at all. But the good news is that my eating better and reducing my plate size from a 12 inch toa 7 inch has help in some more weight loss. and I am still moving as much as I can but its real slow and not very long. I shall be back at this as soon as I can stomach the ache's and the pain. It takesa a lot more then a little fracture to keep this boy down.ship
205 now
Oh and has anybody tried the Skinny Coffee bean Extract yet one of my neighbours has been doing it for about 6 days and has lost close to 5 lbs.


----------



## Milkman

Ship of fools said:


> Well talk about bad luck I have a fracture in the left hip tore a muscle off the bone a few days ago and can barely move around without some medication in me, if I didn't have any bad luck lately I wouldn't have any luck at all. But the good news is that my eating better and reducing my plate size from a 12 inch toa 7 inch has help in some more weight loss. and I am still moving as much as I can but its real slow and not very long. I shall be back at this as soon as I can stomach the ache's and the pain. It takesa a lot more then a little fracture to keep this boy down.ship
> 205 now
> Oh and has anybody tried the Skinny Coffee bean Extract yet one of my neighbours has been doing it for about 6 days and has lost close to 5 lbs.


How the F$#k did you do that? Sounds like a painful injury.

I've never tried any potions or lotions to lose weight, just less food and more motion but I think the sincere intent to lose weight is the most important element.


----------



## Stratin2traynor

Sorry to hear about your injury Ship. Sounds like a nasty one. Ouch


----------



## Shark

Ship of fools said:


> Well talk about bad luck I have a fracture in the left hip tore a muscle off the bone a few days ago and can barely move around without some medication in me, if I didn't have any bad luck lately I wouldn't have any luck at all. But the good news is that my eating better and reducing my plate size from a 12 inch toa 7 inch has help in some more weight loss. and I am still moving as much as I can but its real slow and not very long. I shall be back at this as soon as I can stomach the ache's and the pain. It takesa a lot more then a little fracture to keep this boy down.ship
> 205 now
> Oh and has anybody tried the Skinny Coffee bean Extract yet one of my neighbours has been doing it for about 6 days and has lost close to 5 lbs.


Sorry to hear about your injury. As for the coffee bean extract, virtually all the herbal supplements for weight loss contain caffeine, because caffeine is an appetite suppressant. You can get the same, but healthier, effect by eating smaller meals more frequently.


----------



## Ship of fools

Its on the side of my new hip joint and I was carrying a bucket of water to clean out my stupid stainless steel BBQ and one bad twist of the hip pulled the muscle with part of the bone with it. I am down to only about 1400 calories per day now and have not cheated ( well maybe just a smidge ) and reduced the bread starch's down to only 4 slices per week now and increased my green veggies so that it covers about a 3rd of the plate, but I confess to having 1 cheat day per week where I allow myself a doughnut/week. But I am going to see just how far I can walk today and see if maybe a icy/patch ( hot and cold ) will help me increase my distance with some shopping today. If not I am not sure what else I can do surgery is out of the question to many in the last 5 years so I am going to see if I can't suck it up ( always tell my kids to suck it up princess ) so I will see if I can and stay out of the gym for a while and just do things around the home with a chair and small weights.
As for the pain well it only hurts the worse as I lift my leg and when I laugh or sneeze ( those sneeze's really hurt when they are the deep ones ) oh well time for me to stop complaining and get on with life.ship
And holy crap boy I have to watch my spelling and spacing, must be the drugs on board


----------



## jimsz

Milkman said:


> It all works, IF you use it.


I would suspect that holds true for any program.



> If it's easy, you're probably doing it wrong.


I couldn't agree with you more. P90X is hard, VERY hard, that is why it is touted as an "Extreme Fitness Program" and that is why it produces results. Of course, it takes time to work oneself up to being capable of following along with the people on the dvd, but the program is geared towards building oneself up to that. 

I would suspect that many here could follow such a program if they were so inclined. I mean, what better group of folks are you going to ever find who have the diligence and dedication to learn and practice guitar? These are folks who could indeed follow such a program or any other fitness program.


----------



## jimsz

Milkman said:


> But, for me the gym IS the best solution.
> I simply can't get into working out in a class or in front of a TV.
> I work best on my own and in the environment that has all the devices and equipment I want.


I would like to present an argument in favor of working out at home, but want to make sure I'm not insulting or offending your choice.

First of all, P90X provides (4) one hour videos that target the upper body, arms, shoulders, triceps, biceps, back and chest - (1) one hour video targeting the legs and back - (1) 20 minute video targeting the abs ( you get rock hard abs in very little time) and (1) 45 minute cardio workout. I believe most of this is offered in many Gyms for a price.

In addition, there is (1) one hour Plyometrics video (jump training) which Tony says "you can run faster and jump higher and beat the panties off anyone who doesn't do it" - (1) one hour Kenpo video which practices punches, kicks, blocks and combinations of all of the above. Both of these videos are two of my favorites as they are serious workouts that have me sweating profusely. When I'm playing basketball and especially hockey, these two come into play with great results. I easily side step and jump with little effort, I now skate circles around most other players and few can now knock me down, that is, if they can even get near me - (1) 1.5 hour Yoga video, no matter how much I don't enjoy doing Yoga, this video works wonders at giving me exceptional balance and flexibility not found in the other workouts, let alone the toning it does to muscles. 

As well, there is a complete eating and cookbook guide showing proper dietary intake and eating habits.

I'm not sure if any of these are offered in the usual Gyms, but most likely they are extra programs that would cost over and above the Gym monthly rates.

Of course, there is the issue of traveling back and forth to facilities, an extra daily cost of time and money. I believe it is this issue that causes more people to drop out of fitness programs than anything else. In Canada, we are subject to severe weather, and while many are sitting at home lamenting that they can't get to their Gyms because they're bogged in by snow or heavy rain, I'm happily working out in the comfort of my home. As well, some of the programs are scheduled and you can't just do them whenever you want, bringing into the mix the convenience of working out at home whenever you want.

The cost? I purchased the program a year and half ago along with a few hand weights and have not sunk a dime into it since then and won't have to pay anything for years to come. How much money would it cost to not only pay for these programs but to include the cost of traveling to the facilities over a period of time? 

Personally, I simply cannot see the logic or rationale in paying money month after month for fitness, especially having to travel back and forth every day to the facility. And of course, as mentioned before, the devices and machines found at Gyms are not required at all. I can't imagine having to share them with other folks, who knows where they've been.


----------



## jimsz

Ship of fools said:


> Well talk about bad luck I have a fracture in the left hip tore a muscle off the bone a few days ago and can barely move around without some medication in me, if I didn't have any bad luck lately I wouldn't have any luck at all. But the good news is that my eating better and reducing my plate size from a 12 inch toa 7 inch has help in some more weight loss. and I am still moving as much as I can but its real slow and not very long. I shall be back at this as soon as I can stomach the ache's and the pain. It takesa a lot more then a little fracture to keep this boy down.ship
> 205 now
> Oh and has anybody tried the Skinny Coffee bean Extract yet one of my neighbours has been doing it for about 6 days and has lost close to 5 lbs.


Oh dude, sorry to hear that. Hope you recover soon.


----------



## Stratin2traynor

I kind of agree with you jimsz. But that requires a lot of self-discipline as well. I think the drive to the gym helps people get "into the zone". Plus, I remember the days working out at the gym when I went the extra mile (for better or for worse - lol) because of the women working out nearby. Can be very motivating. largetongue

I was using the GSP Rushfit DVDs last year. Loved the workouts and was getting into great shape before I tore my rotator cuff. It's been a long year of Dr, Specialist, Surgeon consults and Physio but my rotator cuff is starting to get better. It is still messed up but I back to working out now. 

My layoff gave me a lot of time to do a ton of reading on the subject of health and fitness and I believe that I've found the right balance at this point in my life. I won't bore everyone with the details but this is what I am doing now. Cyclical Low Carb diet and moderate training. Easy. After the first week of losing about 8 lbs in water weight, I have been consistently losing about 2lbs per week. And it's been a piece of cake. I eat as much meat, good fat and low carb veggies as I want all week and then one evening on the weekend I am allowed to pig out on any carb that I want - chocolate, gluten free bread, ice cream, chips....you get the idea.

I am never starving. Never. As a matter of fact, I sometimes have to force myself to eat because I am rarely hungry. I consume between 2000-3500 calories per day. 

I paid for a DEXA scan to measure lean body mass, fat percentage and bone density. I also had my doctor do a series of blood tests before I started. Once I reach my goal (or by Christmas whichever comes first) I will have the same blood tests repeated to see if my blood panel, hormone levels, triglycerides etc etc have improved. I suspect that they will because I haven't felt this good in at least 10 years. It's ridiculous. 

The exercise protocol calls for weight lifting/body weight exercises and walking. No high intensity interval training, no 15 mile runs. Just walking and strength training. 

Barring any major injuries or setbacks I plan to reach my goal of losing approximately 50 lbs fat (without muscle loss) by late December. I'm already down 15lbs. Now, it's time for my carb feast....


----------



## -ST-

I hope there is something of value for you here.

*23 and 1/2 hours: What is the single best thing we can do for our health?*

[video=youtube;aUaInS6HIGo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUaInS6HIGo[/video]


Sorry if this has been posted before.


----------



## jimsz

Stratin2traynor said:


> I kind of agree with you jimsz. But that requires a lot of self-discipline as well. I think the drive to the gym helps people get "into the zone".


I think that's the first time I've heard that the drive to the Gym is a motivator, most folks I talk to say it is a de-motivator, considering the hassle of having to do so, especially in crappy weather. 



> Plus, I remember the days working out at the gym when I went the extra mile (for better or for worse - lol) because of the women working out nearby. Can be very motivating. largetongue


LOL! Now, that is a motivator if ever I heard one. Perhaps, that is the real reason guys go to Gyms.


----------



## Ship of fools

well you remeber when I said that if I didn't have any bad luck I wouldnt have any luck at all, and holy shit wasn't that the truth today while getting ready to sign in this morning at 6:25 am sitting at my coputure chair felt a sneeze comg on and then it happened the hardest sneeze that I can remember and all of a sudden a severe tearing pain in my lower back and right through to my stomach and it was intense and knife tearing and after a 20 minute walk to my car and then a quick drive to the hospital and 10 minutes trying to lay down on a strecher and thank god a very short wait the dr, examines me and then 15 minutes later nurse comes by with tylenol and oxi and a shot and 25 minutes later to the x-ray ( they had to wait for the meds to kick in first ) x-rays are done and back to the treatment area and wait for the dr and whjen she comes back informs me that looks like I fractured my L2 its called a Vertebral Compression Fracture.
How in gods name does one fracture their back from a sneeze, well apperently its pretty easy if you develope Osteoperosis and that happens when you are lacking calcium to help build bones and she says that most males and females do not have enough vitamin D in their system, so for the rest of you talk to your Doctor and avoid this type of pain, because holy fuck it was the worst pain one can imagine and once it happens to you its often to late to stop more from happening.
So the moral of this tale is get yourself tested and make sure that you have enough vitamin D and calcium to avoid this and here's hoping my pain is your decision to get tested and started on the road to better health and stop smoling mand over drinking and highly recommended 30 minutes of each day and walking is the best way to help keep a healthy spine.
kkjq the sinking fast Ship of Fools :bullbeg:


----------



## greco

Ship...this is terrible news!! 

Take good care of yourself. Very best wishes for a quick recovery.

Dave


----------



## Milkman

jimsz said:


> I would like to present an argument in favor of working out at home, but want to make sure I'm not insulting or offending your choice.
> 
> First of all, P90X provides (4) one hour videos that target the upper body, arms, shoulders, triceps, biceps, back and chest - (1) one hour video targeting the legs and back - (1) 20 minute video targeting the abs ( you get rock hard abs in very little time) and (1) 45 minute cardio workout. I believe most of this is offered in many Gyms for a price.
> 
> In addition, there is (1) one hour Plyometrics video (jump training) which Tony says "you can run faster and jump higher and beat the panties off anyone who doesn't do it" - (1) one hour Kenpo video which practices punches, kicks, blocks and combinations of all of the above. Both of these videos are two of my favorites as they are serious workouts that have me sweating profusely. When I'm playing basketball and especially hockey, these two come into play with great results. I easily side step and jump with little effort, I now skate circles around most other players and few can now knock me down, that is, if they can even get near me - (1) 1.5 hour Yoga video, no matter how much I don't enjoy doing Yoga, this video works wonders at giving me exceptional balance and flexibility not found in the other workouts, let alone the toning it does to muscles.
> 
> As well, there is a complete eating and cookbook guide showing proper dietary intake and eating habits.
> 
> I'm not sure if any of these are offered in the usual Gyms, but most likely they are extra programs that would cost over and above the Gym monthly rates.
> 
> Of course, there is the issue of traveling back and forth to facilities, an extra daily cost of time and money. I believe it is this issue that causes more people to drop out of fitness programs than anything else. In Canada, we are subject to severe weather, and while many are sitting at home lamenting that they can't get to their Gyms because they're bogged in by snow or heavy rain, I'm happily working out in the comfort of my home. As well, some of the programs are scheduled and you can't just do them whenever you want, bringing into the mix the convenience of working out at home whenever you want.
> 
> The cost? I purchased the program a year and half ago along with a few hand weights and have not sunk a dime into it since then and won't have to pay anything for years to come. How much money would it cost to not only pay for these programs but to include the cost of traveling to the facilities over a period of time?
> 
> Personally, I simply cannot see the logic or rationale in paying money month after month for fitness, especially having to travel back and forth every day to the facility. And of course, as mentioned before, the devices and machines found at Gyms are not required at all. I can't imagine having to share them with other folks, who knows where they've been.


The gym I use has many classes including P90X and other similar programs. There are also spinning, hot yoga, Zoomba and others.

I'm not a guy who likes working in a class. I don't need or want a drill Sargent. I used a personal trainer for six months to learn proper form.

Other than that I like working out alone. I have a program I developed for myself which includes a four day rotation of major muscle groups, cardio and stretching.

I choose not to have an office in my home and for similar reasons I choose not to have a gym there as well.

The gym is nicely located between my house and my office.

The cost? with all due respect, who the F$#k cares? I'll wager many of us spend more at Tim Hortons in a month than I spend at the gym.

i'm not rich by any means, but $40 is a small investment for one's health.

But hey, don't worry about what works for others. If doing P90X is your thing and you can make it work for you, that's all the matters. For me, it just wouldn't work.

As for weather preventing me from getting to the gym, the same lame assed excuses get trotted out in the workplace too, but somehow, the diehards always seem to make it in don't they?

There is no one solution, other than moving more and eating less.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

OK, when this thread started I was just over 220 lb and wanted to lose about 20. I went to the Dr. today and I am at 137, the heaviest in my life and my blood pressure is 160/100. Time to get a bit more serious about this, hurting or not, we're going to rack up some distance walking and the snacks are getting cut back in a big way. Goal..200 lbs and 140/90. (the bastard even managed to sneak in a tetnus shot....I have a phobia about needles)


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## Milkman

-ST- said:


> I hope there is something of value for you here.
> 
> *23 and 1/2 hours: What is the single best thing we can do for our health?*
> 
> [video=youtube;aUaInS6HIGo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUaInS6HIGo[/video]
> 
> 
> Sorry if this has been posted before.



Well, I'm shocked that I've never seen this clip.

It was very well done and I agree wholeheartedly with the opinions expressed therein.

I'll be watching that one again thanks.


----------



## Milkman

Jim DaddyO said:


> OK, when this thread started I was just over 220 lb and wanted to lose about 20. I went to the Dr. today and I am at 137, the heaviest in my life and my blood pressure is 160/100. Time to get a bit more serious about this, hurting or not, we're going to rack up some distance walking and the snacks are getting cut back in a big way. Goal..200 lbs and 140/90. (the bastard even managed to sneak in a tetnus shot....I have a phobia about needles)


Best of luck man. It can be done.


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## Jim DaddyO

Milkman said:


> Best of luck man. It can be done.


yeah, I have been pretty sedentary since messing my knee up. It does not like to get get up and go and tells me about it. Time to stop letting it have its own way, I mean, it hurts anyways, so I may as well do something....anything. Been walking the dog for a couple weeks now, so that is a small start.


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## Ship of fools

Jim its one step at a time and they say that walking is just as important as core exercising and strenght training and if you are having problems with movment may I suggest that you get yourself a couple of rubber bands and a sturdy chair and you would be surprised as to the amount of excercies you can do while being sedatary.
I agree that its not an easy task but sometimes we need to push ourselfs and do not let the pain win, slow and steady my friend and ask for help here in terms of what you can do with exercise and food intake. Best of luck I have agoal of 2 lbs this week and even with the pain I know that I can accomplish it, yes with some discomfort but I also know that it will help my back and hip problem and help me heal better and faster if I loose more weight.you ca do it Jim.ship


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## Jim DaddyO

Thanks for the encouragement Ship!


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## jimsz

Milkman said:


> The cost? with all due respect, who the F$#k cares? I'll wager many of us spend more at Tim Hortons in a month than I spend at the gym.
> 
> i'm not rich by any means, but $40 is a small investment for one's health.


On the contrary, reading these forums would show there are a lot of folks who are concerned about where they spend their money and how they wish they could afford a particular guitar or amp. 

Many also don't flush their money down the Tim Horton's toilet, that stuff will kill you. Spending more than $40 a month plus the $40 a month is a good $100 or more, which turns into $1200 a year or more. In a couple of years, one could afford a nice Les Paul, custom Strat or boutique amp and still be in excellent shape without paying through the nose.

My son's football league offers a monthly training program at a cost of $220 per month. Outrageous.

After doing some research on gyms and the folks who frequent them (fitness forums), I found there were a lot more negative opinions than positive. Here are just some of the issues folks were pissed about...

- Pushy and annoying sales folks trying to up-sell memberships
- Over sold memberships resulting in crowded gyms
- Dealing with morons at the gym
- The stench of other people
- Parking (many folks complained about this)
- Too few locations, inconvenient
- Cancelled classes
- Broken machines not getting fixed in a timely manner
- Outdated machines
- Women being leered at or trying to get picked up
- Zoomba? 
- Cost of personal trainers

Most of the positive opinions were the layout of locker facilities and the abundance of towels, shaving cream and razors, that is, if you forgot to bring them. Most folks continually changed facilities always thinking the grass was greener, but soon found the same issues were present everywhere.

The bottom line is that fitness facilities are business and are there to make money and they will try to squeeze what they can out of you, especially considering it is a highly competitive market. The two most popular in the Vancouver area appear to be the Steve Nash and Trevor Linden facilities, which provide some of the best deals, but you still have to deal with all the issues above as opposed to more expensive facilities that offer better services. You pretty much get what you pay for.

But hey, if folks want to pay continuously month after month and be forced put up with the issues, I have no problem with that. 

And, of course, this isn't about stating that my program is better than someone else, so they should do it, it's all about finding out the advantages and disadvantages of various fitness regimes. When the playing is leveled and such things as diligence and dedication are removed from the equation, simply because all fitness programs require it, we can present the advantages and disadvantages so that others can understand them in order to decide what might be best for them. Perhaps, going to gyms is the best thing for them. No problem.


----------



## Merlin

Still staying on the course I set for myself.

I'm now downing 55 pounds from my starting weight. Another 20 or so to go.


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## Jim DaddyO

Did a brisk (for me) 1/2 hour walk....quite enjoyable...it's a start.


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## Ship of fools

That's a great start and just remember why you are doing it Jim.ship


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## Jim DaddyO

I will have to remember to put my brace on so it is easier to keep it up


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## Milkman

Jim DaddyO said:


> Did a brisk (for me) 1/2 hour walk....quite enjoyable...it's a start.



It's a start for sure,but it's more than that. If you did that five times a week and worked a little with diet you would likely see and feel gradual improvement.

And, gradual is the way to go.

Rock on


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## Ship of fools

Well we are now down to 203 which really is wonderful just 28 lbs left to go and all with walking and eating better and reducing the plate size has really helped. Stilll hurts like hell walking but no pain no gain. Well hope the rest of you are having some success also and still thinking oif you Jim get that brace on and walk 50 steps more then last time.ship


----------



## Milkman

Ship of fools said:


> Well we are now down to 203 which really is wonderful just 28 lbs left to go and all with walking and eating better and reducing the plate size has really helped. Stilll hurts like hell walking but no pain no gain. Well hope the rest of you are having some success also and still thinking oif you Jim get that brace on and walk 50 steps more then last time.ship


Well I'll spare you the gym rhetoric (pain is just weakness leaving your body, LOL), but yes, the pain is a part of it, more for some than for others.

The will to implement the changes needed is the single biggest factor on your side.

For me it has been a matter of being better than I was, not as good or better than anyone else.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Ship of fools said:


> Well we are now down to 203 which really is wonderful just 28 lbs left to go and all with walking and eating better and reducing the plate size has really helped. Stilll hurts like hell walking but no pain no gain. Well hope the rest of you are having some success also and still thinking oif you Jim get that brace on and walk 50 steps more then last time.ship


WTG Ship! You are getting there. I have done my walk 6 days in a row now (and on top of that walked the whole yard mowing the lawn on Saturday). I am using my brace and today had to reach for the Aleve. Tomorrow will be a week straight, and I will weigh myself. I have cut WAYYYY back on the junk food too. I am not even buying potato chips as they are my biggest weakness. I just can't resist them, so they are not in the house. I have a salad instead, yes with a bit of dressing, but compare that to a big bowl of chips!!!!! Presidents Choice Loads of Jalapeno Popper chips....mmmmmmmmm.


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## Ship of fools

Hey Jim good to hear that, potato chips hey could think they aren't at home. I allow myself one cheat day and my weakness is jelly filled doughnuts but \i have cut back to once every two weeks now and have increased my fruit intake and they say if you increase your H2O intake will help with snacking foods in reducing them so when you want another potato chip drink some water first and then go for a short walk kind of like quitting smoking. If your too busy you can't smoke.
And Milkman I see myself as beating the odds, when I was a young lad I was told by the time I was in my late 30's I would more then likely be using a wheelchair this month I turn 60 and I am still no wheelchair nor cane nor crutches bound. Me I just want to be healthy and be happy where I am. And not to relive my youth happy being somewhat where I am, but with less weight.ship........175 lbs is just about right for me I did manage to loose almsot 3/4 of an inch in just one day with my compession fracture, to bad you can't loose weight like that


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## Milkman

Ship of fools said:


> Hey Jim good to hear that, potato chips hey could think they aren't at home. I allow myself one cheat day and my weakness is jelly filled doughnuts but \i have cut back to once every two weeks now and have increased my fruit intake and they say if you increase your H2O intake will help with snacking foods in reducing them so when you want another potato chip drink some water first and then go for a short walk kind of like quitting smoking. If your too busy you can't smoke.
> And Milkman I see myself as beating the odds, when I was a young lad I was told by the time I was in my late 30's I would more then likely be using a wheelchair this month I turn 60 and I am still no wheelchair nor cane nor crutches bound. Me I just want to be healthy and be happy where I am. And not to relive my youth happy being somewhat where I am, but with less weight.ship........175 lbs is just about right for me I did manage to loose almsot 3/4 of an inch in just one day with my compession fracture, to bad you can't loose weight like that


Everybody has their own goals and objectives. Mine is to be as healthy as I can with the time I can devote to it with a clear understanding of my age. 

I know I'm 52 and I'm very much at ease with that. Heck the only reason I can even remember my age is because I was born on an even decade (1960).

But, I've managed, through a combination of no sports and dumb luck, to avoid any chronic injuries or conditions.

I'm having fun doing this and I am seeing changes, very positive changes.

Good luck to all of you, whatever your target is.


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## Jim DaddyO

We are all in the same boat. I am 52 also and between getting hurt 6 years ago slowing me down and now almost 16 months without a cigarette I have packed on a bunch of pounds. Up until I was 40(ish) I weighed in at about 160 lbs. That is pretty slim for someone 6' 3". Yes, 160 lbs, 6' 3" is correct...a 30" waist....when I stood sideways and stuck out my tongue I looked like a zipper if I was not wearing a shirt. I was pretty comfortable right around the 200 lb mark, so that is my goal. I need to lose about 35 lbs to get there (going from last weeks weight). The activity ought to help with a lot of things including my outlook. My Dr. gave me the hairy eyeball when he took my blood pressure, so getting that down is part of the goal too, and ought to come along with the weight lose and increased activity.


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## Ship of fools

Jim what helped me years ago get my blood pressure down was eating more red, yellow and orange peppers in foods. Not sure why it worked but it made a big difference over a 9 month period.ship


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## Jim DaddyO

That is good news, I love peppers! Being it has been 1 full week since I weighed myself, I stepped on the scale today. I have shed 5 - 7 pounds in a week. I am pleasantly surprised at this and using it as motivation. I am aware that the first few pounds are the easiest. A bit rainy today, so a short walk and will do it again after work.


----------



## Short Circuit

I've been off line for a few days or so due to moving to a new(for us) house and I hope you are healing well Ship.
For the rest of you guys Keep loosing the weight :rockon2:
I am down 59 lbs to 197 1/2 lbs. Only about another 10 to go.
I haven't been eating too well this past week or even getting on the bike due to moving but now that we are mostly situated in the new digs I have gotten a couple of rides in and am starting to get back into the good eating habits.

Mark


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## Ship of fools

Yep as long as I don't sneeze I should heal okay last night was a new mark for me 201 and can't be any happier only 26 pounds left to shed, wish I could start to excercise again would really help that process along but doctor says not until the bone has completely healed which could take anywhere from 6 months to a full year. So its light work at home using very light weights ( 5#'s ) and rubber bands for some resitance training and as much walking as I can, didn't realize just how much your lower back muscles actually help to stabalize ones gait and wish I could get my 1 inch loss back also feeling so short now and i doesn't help when you started off at 5 ft 7 1/2 inchs and then loose 1 inch, oh well back to more exercising.ship


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## Jim DaddyO

Still going everyday, a bit longer now, trying to get up to a 4k walk. Not sure what to do when winter comes though. 30 lbs to go.


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## Short Circuit

I will use my treadmill when the weather is cold and I have been thinking of getting one of those trainers that attach to the rear wheel of my bicycle.

Mark


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## copperhead

3 years ago I lost 100 lbs from May to November .....How ?
cut back on fat & the main thing .excersize everyday 45 min & 4.2 mph walk on the treadmill = 320lb to 220lb for a fairly muscular logger by trade ,is pretty goodI think ?
I did gain half if it back in the last couple years ,but I am loosing it again I'm at 260 now .


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## Jim DaddyO

I have only missed one day in 2 weeks of going for my walk now. My goal from the start is 5 days a week. Today I got in a 4k walk. Was I ever tired and sore when I got home. Sitting and relaxing now giving myself mental pats on the back. Weigh in day again tomorrow. I don't physically feel like there should be any change from last week, we will see.


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## Jim DaddyO

2 more pounds gone, not much, but still in the right direction......28 to go.


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## Ship of fools

Cool guys I weighed in last night and my stupid scale kept doing 200 and then 199 then 200 and then 199, so I am going with 199 whippeeeeeeeeee broke the 200 curse, but my freAKIN BACK IS PAYING FOR IT. Crap I didn't think my back played so much of a roll in just walking, but it does.ship...........sorry have to go and eat some stupid yogurt now.


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## Milkman

Ship of fools said:


> Cool guys I weighed in last night and my stupid scale kept doing 200 and then 199 then 200 and then 199, so I am going with 199 whippeeeeeeeeee broke the 200 curse, but my freAKIN BACK IS PAYING FOR IT. Crap I didn't think my back played so much of a roll in just walking, but it does.ship...........sorry have to go and eat some stupid yogurt now.



That's pretty cool Ship. It's just a number after all, but somehow 199 seems much different than 200.

Congrats. Don't look back.

My legs have been really sore since Friday night's work out. I'm finally getting over the DOMS just in time for another leg day (this evening).

I spend a fair bit of time whining about sore muscles, LOL.


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## Jim DaddyO

WTG ship. There is a huge difference between 199 and 200. That is why things are prices $1.99 vs $2.00. It may be psychological, but it is something!. Meanwhile I have found that my $20 Penmans runners from Walmart are not cutting it. I have a blister starting on the ball of my foot from them.


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## smorgdonkey

Things are going great...people still guessing that I am in my 30s and I am 46.

Exercise and eating clean is good!!


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## Jim DaddyO

smorgdonkey said:


> Things are going great...people still guessing that I am in my 30s and I am 46.
> 
> Exercise and eating clean is good!!


Can't tell your age from your avitar.....how long ago was that pic taken?


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## Short Circuit

Congrats to everyone still loosing weight sdsre
I weighed myself this morning and I am 194 1/2 lbs 

Mark


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## Ship of fools

Okay we lost some posts from here down to 197.ship


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## smorgdonkey

Jim DaddyO said:


> Can't tell your age from your avitar.....how long ago was that pic taken?



HA!! Funny...

I am 46.


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## Ship of fools

Anybody here have to take Calcium and vitamin D, I am not liking some of the side effects from bloating to gas to being back up. it is sending my weight around the corner I am up to 199 and I am sure the next few days I will be down again to 197 crazy stuff. But I am hoping these old bones manage to put some more calcium back where it belongs. Scheduled for a big walk today so that should help some.ship
And Smorg with that photo I would have thought around 36


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## Jim DaddyO

I don't take any extra vitamins or anything like that, but I have re discovered the joy of a cold glass of milk. I used to drink gallons of it when I was a kid then went off it and drank Pepsi like it was about to be declared illegal. Cutting back on soda started well before my weight gain. My wife can attest that I am still an optimal farter, so that is working well. 

I was a bit lazy/preoccupied this last week, not expecting a significant loss tomorrow (Tuesday is weigh day for me). I cheated a bit on the weekend and snacked a bit, but I did get another 4 km walk in last week, which is a huge challenge for me as the knee protests a lot from it. I have found with a lot of concentration and determination I can almost get a "normal" stride going for a short while. I tried a few steps of "jogging" (more of a loping stride) and that didn't go well. Too much stress on a too weak joint. Won't stop me from trying though.

Keep up the efforts everyone, you are doing well!!!


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## Milkman

I take a vitamin pack from GNC designed for men over fifty. There are six horse pills in a blister pack each day. Someof them are for prostate health, some fish oil and multi vitamins.

The fish oil does make me belch a bit but my diet is still not what I would like it to be so I'm taking these.


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## Ship of fools

Okay guys time to check in again and see where everyone is at, me I am down to 196 its going slowly but its still going. So what about the rest of you guys?.ship


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## Jim DaddyO

Have not weighed myself this week yet. A bit less opportunity for walking, but that is because I was busy working up a sweat doing other things. Like cutting down trees and cutting them up into firewood, and moving it, etc. I did a really nice walk today with the wife and dog. Started out as a regular walk along one of out favorite routes and ended up detouring for an extra hour of so through the woods. That burnt up a few calories. Keeping down on the snacking, but I still have some chips now and then. Snacking now usually consists of a garden salad, with dressing of course, still better than chips. Will get my weight tomorrow morning. 
You are doing great Ship. As long as it is going in the direction you want it is success.


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## Steadfastly

A friend of mine lost around 40 pounds just by not snacking after supper.


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## Short Circuit

Weighed myself this morning and I am down to 191 1/2 lbs. I have been on the bike and the roller trainer quite a bit lately. I also got the weight trainer put back together this week and have been trying REAL hard not to snack after supper.

Mark


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## Merlin

Down to 179 now.


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## Jim DaddyO

Bummer, I must have hit a plateau. Right around 229 for this week. My recent best is 227. I think 1% variation is expected as normal fluctuation. A bit disappointing with the level of pain I am enduring to try and get this weight off. Will keep soldiering on.


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## Merlin

Jim DaddyO said:


> Bummer, I must have hit a plateau. Right around 229 for this week. My recent best is 227. I think 1% variation is expected as normal fluctuation. A bit disappointing with the level of pain I am enduring to try and get this weight off. Will keep soldiering on.


Losing weight shouldn't hurt.

I do not pursue exercise. I HAVE become more active as a result of losing weight, rather than losing weight because of increased activity.


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## Cartcanuck

I'll join in , just for a little bit of accountability 

I"m currently 257, and have been in the 253-259 range for about 6 years. I'm currently 46 years old, end even now people think I'm in my late 30's (partly because I don't act 46, I have very young children, and things like that I think). Due to various things over the past few years (we started a family 7 years ago, had a second 2.5 years ago, bought a new house and moved along with renovations over the past year, etc) that have made it difficult to maintain a steady workout schedule of any sort. Last spring/summer I began walking and adding in 2 minute interval runs (I am not a runner, I've had knee tendinitis for years and have never had the lungs to run) for 14 weeks, and lost a grand total of 1 pound. I didn't change my diet much, but I did cut down on evening snacks and snacks at work. But it had little effect on the weight although I felt better. Which, to me, is just as important as weight loss. 

Our kids are finally sleeping through the night, we are moved and settled into our house, so wifey and I are actually getting back into the gym and making some lifestyle changes. I sprained my knee this summer, so I'm working mostly on cardio equipment right now to build some strength back into my knee and will be adding in some circuit training in the next week or two. So far in the past 12 days, I have 7 workouts consisting of at least 35-45 minutes cardio and 15-20 minutes stretching (a very big part of keeping my rotated pelvis in check and keeping my back from laying me up for another week or two). Most of my workouts are at lunch time and are a little rushed but my plan is to incorporate at least 3 early morning workouts at 5:45 am when I will have about 1.25 hours to get in a longer cardio workout plus a circuit of weights or a fitness class (Total Conditioning, spin class, etc).

REgarding diet, the biggest change we are making is that we are eliminating as much wheat/gluten from our diet as possible (read the book Wheat Belly), we are avoiding junk food like the plague, reduced our alcohol consumption somewhat, have eliminate pop from our diet (unless there is rum in it), and have eliminated caffeine (1 Timmy's double double decaf a week). 

My goals are 235lb by Christmas, 200 lbs by my next birthday (June). More important than weight is to take my waistline from 42 inches to 36 or less. 

Wifey got an earlier start by one month and has lost 8 lbs already (she's also 9 years younger than me.......*sigh* I remember being 37). I've only lost 1 lb in this first 12 days, but I also know that this takes time. I've spent a lot of time as a gym rat over the years so I'm very aware of not expecting immediate results. 

My physical challenges right now are the previously mentioned tendonitis in my knees, the sprained knee, chronic back issues, a left shoulder full of scar tissue, and the newest addition to my problems is that my forearms have been extremely sore for the past 4 months (since I finished renos on my old house, painted some rooms in the new house, and moved). Sore to the point of not being able to grab things or if I'm carrying something I can't lift it above my waist because of the pain. My massage therapist is a holistic doctor so between her physical treatment on my arms and some holistic "medicine" and an increase in Magnesium supplements I'll see how things feel over the next week or two. She thinks that the nerves are all being compressed from by biceps down through the elbow into my forearms. She doesn't think it's tendonitis or carpal tunnel and that what she's given me will remedy the issue. I'm very curious, but it if doesn't clear up within 2 weeks I'll be in to see the doctor. 

So that's it in a long nutshell. It's time to unleash the sleeping gym rat that I once was. It's time to stop feeling like the balding, overweight, flatulent, blob that I feel that I've become. If I can average 6.7 lbs weight loss per month, there's no reason I can't reach my goal of under 200lbs by my next birthday (and if I do, I'm buying a guitar or a new amp as a reward  ).


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## Jim DaddyO

Getting up and doing any kind of activity, even if it is not exercise, takes a toll on my knee. Even resting, my knee hurts. I am just increasing my activity to get my metabolism going and shed some pounds. Mostly that involves walking. I always had strong legs up until my injury and was pretty active and I would like to regain some of that functionality. So walk I will and if I must hurt because of it, I will. The other option is to keep ballooning in weight and go off the deep end with the lack of activity and boredom.


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## Steadfastly

Jim DaddyO said:


> Getting up and doing any kind of activity, even if it is not exercise, takes a toll on my knee. Even resting, my knee hurts. I am just increasing my activity to get my metabolism going and shed some pounds. Mostly that involves walking. I always had strong legs up until my injury and was pretty active and I would like to regain some of that functionality. So walk I will and if I must hurt because of it, I will. The other option is to keep ballooning in weight and go off the deep end with the lack of activity and boredom.


Jim: Would a bike not be easier on your legs? Also, swimming is great for losing weight and the "weightlessness" in the water is very easy on the joints.


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## Jim DaddyO

Steadfastly said:


> Jim: Would a bike not be easier on your legs? Also, swimming is great for losing weight and the "weightlessness" in the water is very easy on the joints.



Thanks for the thoughts, not enough strength to pedal a bike effectively. I don't even alternate feet going up/down stairs. Wife and I are thinking of joining the pool for the winter.


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## Cartcanuck

Wow Dude. That sucks. Dare I ask what happened? If it's none of my business, just shoot me a STFU LOL

Yeah, try the pool. My new house has a pool and my knee and back really appreciated it. I spent many an hour using a kickboard back and forth in the pool just giving my knee some exercise and sometimes just floating around to take the strain off the joint felt soooooooo good. 

Can you afford to work with a physiotherapist or trainer for a short period of time?


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## Jim DaddyO

Well, I put a couple of pounds back on. Also, yesterday I really messed up my knee again. I slipped and instead of holding my weight, my knee twisted. I ended up on the ground for a while not being able to get up. That is a scary situation. I went to emerg, they gave me a script for some pain med. Did the ice thing and all that. My knee is about 2x the size it should be and I can hardly put weight on it or hardly move it for that matter. So my walking regime is on hold while I am laid up. On the bright side, I won't be making a lot of extra trips to the fridge.


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## Short Circuit

Ouch, hopefully it heals up quickly

Mark


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## Ship of fools

Jim its time for you to look at a knee brace, while some are not cheap it stops you from doing exactly that and gives you the added protection you knee obviously needs at this point. We can't have you twisting that sucker for every slip and at our age we need to be taking in at least 8 glass's of H2O everyday so if you are sitting at your couch drink first and eat second, did you also know its better for you to lay down then to sit in a spot for long periods switch places every 1/2 hour. ship
still at 195


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## Jim DaddyO

I have a brace.....................I wasn't wearing it :sSig_DOH:


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## Adcandour

Today is the day I stop ignoring this thread. Why?

Cause I'm dieting for the first time without being ordered to for surgery. 

I weigh 174. I will be in touch.


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## greco

adcandour said:


> Today is the day I stop ignoring this thread. Why?
> 
> Cause I'm dieting for the first time without being ordered to for surgery.
> 
> I weigh 174. I will be in touch.


How much are you required to lose?

That seems like a decent weight...unless you are a bit shorter and/or "smaller framed" than "average"

Cheers

Dave


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## Stratin2traynor

Attaboy!! Good luck to you.



adcandour said:


> Today is the day I stop ignoring this thread. Why?
> 
> Cause I'm dieting for the first time without being ordered to for surgery.
> 
> I weigh 174. I will be in touch.


----------



## Stratin2traynor

Cartcanuck said:


> I'll join in , just for a little bit of accountability
> 
> My physical challenges right now are the previously mentioned tendonitis in my knees, the sprained knee, chronic back issues, a left shoulder full of scar tissue...


LOL. You sound like a clone of me (although my wife isn't 37 - sigh - and I weigh in at 258 lbs!). Tore my rotator cuff 18 months ago and have been dealing with that ever since (as well as chronic back pain from an accident in 2007 and knee injury). 

I just had my first real weight workout in 18 months last night. I feel sore but great. I've decided to go with the "Lift Heavy things and Walk" lifestyle. I've never been much of a runner but at 258 lbs it's likely not a good idea. That much weight crushing my knees is not good. Although I will say this, now that gluten is out of my diet I can run for days. The improvement in my cardio blew me away. I could never run for more that 5 minutes even when I was in shape. Now, without gluten, 30 minutes is easy.

I'm doing Wendler 5/3/1 which is a strength training protocol. I've always been a weight lifter and this is a very structured approach. Workouts take as little as 30 min. I'm supposed to take walks on my off days. No Running involved. So that approach, along with a low carb gluten free diet should help me reach my goals (220 lbs) by my birthday in March. I guess I'll just put in my time and effort and see what happens.

I'm glad to see a lot of people jumping onto this thread. I would never consider myself a health freak but I do think that health is very important. I want to live to see 100 years and still be able to walk around and not be a burden to anyone.


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## Adcandour

greco said:


> How much are you required to lose?
> 
> That seems like a decent weight...unless you are a bit shorter and/or "smaller framed" than "average"
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


Yeah, I'm pretty small framed and I'm 5'-7". I just get it around the waste and my family has a history of Diabetes, so I want to take it easy. I'm 37 and it's time to pay attention to this stuff.

This time around, I'm not _required_ to lose anything. Last time, I had to get down to about 155 for a hernia operation.

I find that if I cut out carbs, I can get to that weight pretty quick. But, since I had two hernias last time, I couldn't work out. I will this time, but I'm not sure how it will affect my progress, since muscle is heavy.

- - - Updated - - -



Stratin2traynor said:


> Attaboy!! Good luck to you.


Thank you.


----------



## Shark

adcandour said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty small framed and I'm 5'-7". I just get it around the waste and my family has a history of Diabetes, so I want to take it easy. I'm 37 and it's time to pay attention to this stuff.
> 
> This time around, I'm not _required_ to lose anything. Last time, I had to get down to about 155 for a hernia operation.
> 
> I find that if I cut out carbs, I can get to that weight pretty quick. But, since I had two hernias last time, I couldn't work out. I will this time, but I'm not sure how it will affect my progress, since muscle is heavy.


I'm about the same as you; 5'8" and 155lbs. I'm about your age, too. I want to be 175lbs, actually, but with the extra weight coming from muscle. 

The best diet for good health is to avoid processed foods. All of it has high levels of glutamate in it these days, which makes weight loss very hard. I also strongly recommend trying a dairy-free and gluten-free diet for a while. It's amazing how much difference that can make. I actually drink dairy specifically to gain weight, like boxers and wrestlers used to do to go up a weight class. After I started to recover from my serious health problems in October 2012 I put on about 25lbs in six weeks (which is probably some kind of record), from drinking lots of milk, eating lots of steak, and lifting weights. Of course, I was coming back up from being underweight from illness (117lbs), so I gained faster than people who are already at their regular weight.


----------



## Adcandour

Shark said:


> I'm about the same as you; 5'8" and 155lbs. I'm about your age, too. I want to be 175lbs, actually, but with the extra weight coming from muscle. The best diet for good health is to avoid processed foods. All of it has high levels of glutamate in it these days, which makes weight loss very hard. I also strongly recommend trying a dairy-free and gluten-free diet for a while. It's amazing how much difference that can make. I actually drink dairy specifically to gain weight, like boxers and wrestlers used to do to go up a weight class. After I started to recover from my serious health problems in October 2012 I put on about 25lbs in six weeks (which is probably some kind of record), from drinking lots of milk, eating lots of steak, and lifting weights. Of course, I was coming back up from being underweight from illness (117lbs), so I gained faster than people who are already at their regular weight.


That's interesting about the dairy. When I go to shed weight, I pig out on everything carb-free. This includes dairy. I'm not sure I could make it without cheese. 

Consequently, eating this way eliminates processed foods and gluten-containing foods as an option. 

I'll consider lowering my dairy intake to see what happens. 

Thanks for the advice.


----------



## Shark

Hey, no problem. I started reading up on nutrition in my mid-teens and have kept at it ever since. 

I'm not a fan of extreme diets, where an entire food group is cut out. I think everything is good in the right balance. I've seen a lot of people messed up by extreme diets, including the glycemic index ones. My own mother, against my advice, went on one for about a year and in that year she visibly aged about ten years. She had previously looked quite young for her age and was sometimes guessed as being my sister, but after that she looked older than most people her age. 

From my own twenty-five-ish years of reading and experimenting on myself and others, I have come up with what I believe to be a good working formula for health and weight:

1. Eat everything as fresh as possible. I.e., fruit should be fresh and not canned; rice should not be instant rice; vegetables should be fresh and not frozen; etc. 
2. Every day eat protein, carbs, fats, and raw fruit and/or vegetables. Avoid any of those at your long-term peril. 
3. Go for organic meat and dairy (if you have dairy). 
4. Avoid foods that you don't digest well. Some people will force themselves to eat things like lentils, because they think they have to be good for them; but everyone should listen to their own bodies. 
5. A lot of people seem to do better when avoiding gluten. I think rice is the best grain, though some people do okay with the older grains like spelt. 

And that's about it, in a nutshell. For weight loss, I think that a raw vegan diet is great short-term, but not so good long-term. I would never encourage anyone to go for longer than three months on a raw vegan diet. The exact time would depend on each individual. Women seem to do better than men on this diet.


----------



## Cartcanuck

I have always been a huge milk drinker. For 20 years I've been a 1% or Skim Milk drinker, but now I"m trying to cut down on it along with reducing my gluten intake. For breakfast it's a gluten free cereal with Almond Milk. I wasn't sure how good this would be but the Almond Milk adds a little flavour to the cereals (which can be a little weak on flavour even though they use pomegranate juice or honey as a sweetener). I don't miss milk in the mornings at all. I think my overall milk intake is down to 1 glass a day.


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## Milkman

Still enjoying the gym almost every day. I continue to see small improvements in the areas I'm targeting and my weight seems pinned at 185~190 lbs which is my personal target. 

The BMI would have be at 177 which would be great if I'm going for the anorexic crack head look.

I guess the BMI assumes everyone has the same width across the shoulders et cetera. Good thing I don't use that logic to buy my suits.


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## starjag

Shark said:


> 1. Eat everything as fresh as possible. I.e., fruit should be fresh and not canned; rice should not be instant rice; vegetables should be fresh and not frozen; etc.
> 2. Every day eat protein, carbs, fats, and raw fruit and/or vegetables. Avoid any of those at your long-term peril.
> 3. Go for organic meat and dairy (if you have dairy).
> 4. Avoid foods that you don't digest well. Some people will force themselves to eat things like lentils, because they think they have to be good for them; but everyone should listen to their own bodies.
> 5. A lot of people seem to do better when avoiding gluten. I think rice is the best grain, though some people do okay with the older grains like spelt.


This is a good "formula" 

For #4, I would generalize to include all grains and legumes. If your gut complains, just don't have them.


----------



## torndownunit

Shark said:


> Hey, no problem. I started reading up on nutrition in my mid-teens and have kept at it ever since.
> 
> I'm not a fan of extreme diets, where an entire food group is cut out. I think everything is good in the right balance. I've seen a lot of people messed up by extreme diets, including the glycemic index ones. My own mother, against my advice, went on one for about a year and in that year she visibly aged about ten years. She had previously looked quite young for her age and was sometimes guessed as being my sister, but after that she looked older than most people her age.
> 
> From my own twenty-five-ish years of reading and experimenting on myself and others, I have come up with what I believe to be a good working formula for health and weight:
> 
> 1. Eat everything as fresh as possible. I.e., fruit should be fresh and not canned; rice should not be instant rice; vegetables should be fresh and not frozen; etc.
> 2. Every day eat protein, carbs, fats, and raw fruit and/or vegetables. Avoid any of those at your long-term peril.
> 3. Go for organic meat and dairy (if you have dairy).
> 4. Avoid foods that you don't digest well. Some people will force themselves to eat things like lentils, because they think they have to be good for them; but everyone should listen to their own bodies.
> 5. A lot of people seem to do better when avoiding gluten. I think rice is the best grain, though some people do okay with the older grains like spelt.
> 
> And that's about it, in a nutshell. For weight loss, I think that a raw vegan diet is great short-term, but not so good long-term. I would never encourage anyone to go for longer than three months on a raw vegan diet. The exact time would depend on each individual. Women seem to do better than men on this diet.


Very good, and very 'current' rules IMO. The healthy fats one is a HUGE one that people overlook.

I personally eat mainly 'paleo' because it just happens to very easily fit into a lot of those common sense rules. But the diet really don't need a name, it's just more of a lifestyle thing. For people who needs stringent guidelines though, if you follow that diet you will lose weight.

Even if you don't think you are gluten intolerant, just try cutting it out for 3 weeks and see how you feel. I felt such a massive difference in my digestion and energy levels. It's one of those cases where you just get used to how you feel. Bloat after eating was normal to me. If I avoid gluten and dairy, and moderate legumes, I just don't have any of that.

The tough part is I am trying to GAIN weight though. When I was going grappling and working with a trainer I was around 155 lbs which is big for me. It was pretty much all muscle weight, mostly in my legs which just inflated with those workouts. I had an injury and took 2 years off or so. I am just getting back into working out and looking to gain about 10 lbs to get me up to 150. I am about half way there. I am lucky my body type still seems to respond to working out by packing on muscle easily. I don't know how much longer that will last as I age.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

OH my, to go back to the days when I was too skinny...lol. I am finding a lot of truth in the food advise here. I have cut down on the bread (one of my fave things) and I am not fond of white bread to start. Carbs also is one thing I try to limit. I am pretty sedentary since my knee injury, and more so now that I have twisted it up again. Trying to limit my intake to what I can burn off is pretty difficult some days. My walking was going well up until last Thursday and I am missing it. Not sure of any substitute cardio I can do. Today is Monday and I am still pretty swollen, but the pain has let off a bit.

Welcome to the thread and thanks for the info!


----------



## Shark

starjag said:


> This is a good "formula"
> 
> For #4, I would generalize to include all grains and legumes. If your gut complains, just don't have them.


Thanks. And, yes, I meant it to include anything, actually. If you don't do well with it, don't eat it. Experience always trumps theory!


----------



## Cartcanuck

What do you eat for snacks? I sit at a desk most of the day, the rest of the day is in the car seeing customers. And snacking is my biggest enemy. Right now I'm managing with a large container of grapes throughout the day but that can get tiring. Occassionally I'll have some plain almonds.

What do you do when you have that 10:30am or 3pm attack of the munchies?


----------



## Shark

Cartcanuck said:


> What do you eat for snacks? I sit at a desk most of the day, the rest of the day is in the car seeing customers. And snacking is my biggest enemy. Right now I'm managing with a large container of grapes throughout the day but that can get tiring. Occassionally I'll have some plain almonds.
> 
> What do you do when you have that 10:30am or 3pm attack of the munchies?


I usually go for fruit and/or yoghurt (always organic, usually goat's milk, sometimes plain). I'll also make green smoothies. The ones I make often follow a variation of this recipe: bananas, coconut milk, nut paste of some kind, baby spinach, dash of salt, maybe a drop of honey, water. Blend it up! Sometimes I add raw organic eggs, though I have been avoiding eggs lately, because I've always had a sensitivity to them (and to chicken) and I do better without them. If you ever eat raw eggs, make sure they're organic, because organic eggs have a much, much lower risk for salmonella. You can stick almond or similar milk in them, too. And they're easy to take to work with you in a thermos or other container (if you put eggs in them, keep them refrigerated, of course). You can get a little cooler for your car to bring yoghurt or smoothies. Anything with fat and protein will be more filling than other snacks. Just keep the fats and proteins healthy. Heck, you can even bring leftovers--just don't overdo it! 

If you want to lose weight, you can try caffeinated drinks like black coffee or green tea, though of course, they have their own drawbacks. But caffeine is a natural appetite suppressant and most diet pills and shakes have it in them--that's their secret. I'm not_ advocating_ caffeine, just saying it's an _option_ if you really want to cut down on your snacking and you don't have insomnia, a heart condition, diabetes, etc.


----------



## Ship of fools

Cart its best to drink water at that time of day, we get use to having a snack and then our bodies want it about the same time of day everyday. Drinking water is a good way to know if you are really hungry or if its conditioning that makes you hungry at that time of day.ship


----------



## torndownunit

Cartcanuck said:


> What do you eat for snacks? I sit at a desk most of the day, the rest of the day is in the car seeing customers. And snacking is my biggest enemy. Right now I'm managing with a large container of grapes throughout the day but that can get tiring. Occassionally I'll have some plain almonds.
> 
> What do you do when you have that 10:30am or 3pm attack of the munchies?


Nuts, hemp seeds, a small amount of Greek Yogurt with fruit and hemp seeds (only dairy product I eat). I drink a lot of juices and smooties I make as well. Either are fantastic for appetite control. A good juicer or blender are expensive, but they are well worth it. I use my Blendtec every day.

- - - Updated - - -



Shark said:


> I usually go for fruit and/or yoghurt (always organic, usually goat's milk, sometimes plain). I'll also make green smoothies. The ones I make often follow a variation of this recipe: bananas, coconut milk, nut paste of some kind, baby spinach, dash of salt, maybe a drop of honey, water. Blend it up! Sometimes I add raw organic eggs, though I have been avoiding eggs lately, because I've always had a sensitivity to them (and to chicken) and I do better without them. If you ever eat raw eggs, make sure they're organic, because organic eggs have a much, much lower risk for salmonella. You can stick almond or similar milk in them, too. And they're easy to take to work with you in a thermos or other container (if you put eggs in them, keep them refrigerated, of course). You can get a little cooler for your car to bring yoghurt or smoothies. Anything with fat and protein will be more filling than other snacks. Just keep the fats and proteins healthy. Heck, you can even bring leftovers--just don't overdo it!
> 
> If you want to lose weight, you can try caffeinated drinks like black coffee or green tea, though of course, they have their own drawbacks. But caffeine is a natural appetite suppressant and most diet pills and shakes have it in them--that's their secret. I'm not_ advocating_ caffeine, just saying it's an _option_ if you really want to cut down on your snacking and you don't have insomnia, a heart condition, diabetes, etc.


I think some of the benefits of a quality coffee or green tea out-weigh the bad stuff personally. And by a fair amount. I can't drink anything caffeinated after 6 pm personally. But I have a couple of coffees or green teas in a day.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Starting over.............With my knee re injured I am not very ambulatory and my walks have gone the way of the dodo bird. I got about a 200 ft. walk (more of a shuffle, using a cane) in today. Not exactly a cardio workout...lol.


----------



## torndownunit

I just thought I'd mention what I think is an important point. Any time I had or have a goal, I do some initial work with a really good trainer. I have had some pretty bad injuries including a knee that required surgery, a bad shoulder injury, and broken ribs. The trainer did more for me than physio ever did. I have used 2 really good trainers with kneisiology and sports medicine backgrounds. Considering how much it improved my life, I don't think it cost much and was definitely worth it.


----------



## Adcandour

Can anyone recommend a good website or YouTube video for lifting weights? I've just got free weights and a good bench.


----------



## Stratin2traynor

http://www.catalystathletics.com/exercises/Catalyst Athletics has a good site. They have videos demonstrating proper form on lifts. Whatever you do, don't follow a program from bodybuilding mag. Mostly bogus workouts. Not sure what kind of lifting you plan on doing but if you stick with the basics; Squats, Dead Lifts, Bench Press and Overhead Press you will get the best results in the least amount of time. I wish I would have known this 20 years ago. 

The very best resource in my opinion is Jim Wendler's 5/3/1. It's an ebook available through his website (jimwendler.com) or on amazon.com.



adcandour said:


> Can anyone recommend a good website or YouTube video for lifting weights? I've just got free weights and a good bench.


----------



## Adcandour

Stratin2traynor said:


> http://www.catalystathletics.com/exercises/Catalyst Athletics has a good site. They have videos demonstrating proper form on lifts. Whatever you do, don't follow a program from bodybuilding mag. Mostly bogus workouts. Not sure what kind of lifting you plan on doing but if you stick with the basics; Squats, Dead Lifts, Bench Press and Overhead Press you will get the best results in the least amount of time. I wish I would have known this 20 years ago. The very best resource in my opinion is Jim Wendler's 5/3/1. It's an ebook available through his website (jimwendler.com) or on amazon.com.


Thanks, I'll check into both of those resources later today.


----------



## Milkman

adcandour said:


> Thanks, I'll check into both of those resources later today.



Just one tip. Form matters more than how much weight is on the bar.

- - - Updated - - -

Make that two tips.

Be careful!

Working out alone with free weights can be dangerous, particularly with bench press.


----------



## Stratin2traynor

Wise words and very true. Form is very important and so is safety. 



Milkman said:


> Just one tip. Form matters more than how much weight is on the bar.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Make that two tips.
> 
> Be careful!
> 
> Working out alone with free weights can be dangerous, particularly with bench press.


----------



## hjr2

I had a big accomplishment on Monday. I finally did 20 pull ups in a row. The amazing part is that I did it after a half hour kettlebell class, and hour and a half of Muay Thai and a ten minute Tabata routine that sucked. This time last year I could only do about 10.


----------



## Milkman

hjr2 said:


> I had a big accomplishment on Monday. I finally did 20 pull ups in a row. The amazing part is that I did it after a half hour kettlebell class, and hour and a half of Muay Thai and a ten minute Tabata routine that sucked. This time last year I could only do about 10.



Congrats and keep chugging!

One of the metrics they use at the gym I use is how many push ups you can do consecutively.

It looks easy when you watch somebody else do it, LOL.


----------



## Cartcanuck

Well, in 4 weeks of gym time (30-35 minutes cardio, 3 times a week + now 2 weeks of core and leg strengthening added in to the cario) I have gained 3 pounds. I have cut wheat/gluten 90% out of my diet, dairy 80% out of my diet (about 1 glass of milk a day), my daytime snacks consist of fruit, and my evening snacks consist of fruit or corn nacho chips with sea salt (plain). 

It's discouraging, but I've been in and out of gyms for enough years to know that this is a process and will take time. It's like an investment, it's about the long haul, not the short term results. I do recognize that I have added muscle in my legs, my back is stronger that it's been in a while, and I can feel my abs working when I do different things. I think I might even be able to see a little difference when I look in the mirror and I definitely feel stronger. But my pants aren't any looser than they were a month ago.


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## torndownunit

Cartcanuck said:


> Well, in 4 weeks of gym time (30-35 minutes cardio, 3 times a week + now 2 weeks of core and leg strengthening added in to the cario) I have gained 3 pounds. I have cut wheat/gluten 90% out of my diet, dairy 80% out of my diet (about 1 glass of milk a day), my daytime snacks consist of fruit, and my evening snacks consist of fruit or corn nacho chips with sea salt (plain).
> 
> It's discouraging, but I've been in and out of gyms for enough years to know that this is a process and will take time. It's like an investment, it's about the long haul, not the short term results. I do recognize that I have added muscle in my legs, my back is stronger that it's been in a while, and I can feel my abs working when I do different things. I think I might even be able to see a little difference when I look in the mirror and I definitely feel stronger. But my pants aren't any looser than they were a month ago.


How do you look and feel though? You can't just go by weight at times. Eg when I get working out a lot I gain weight. A lot of muscle weight while losing fat. Are you using other criteria to judge progress?


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## Jim DaddyO

I can almost make out the shape of my knee cap. So the swelling is going down. Walked up and down the aisles of the grocery store with my wife today using the cart as support. Came home, took pain killers and a nap.


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## Short Circuit

Congrats to everyone

I am down to 190 lbs this morning !!!!! Only 3 1/2 more pounds to go :sFun_dancing:

Mark


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## Cartcanuck

torndownunit said:


> How do you look and feel though? You can't just go by weight at times. Eg when I get working out a lot I gain weight. A lot of muscle weight while losing fat. Are you using other criteria to judge progress?


yeah, I feel stronger and I feel like my posture has improved, and i've been able increase the intensity of my cardio workouts. My leg strengthening is all about building strength in my sprained knee. I can still only leg press 110 lbs without pain in my knee but my reps are increasing. My leg muscles can easily push more, but my knee can't. But I can feel muscles in my legs, where there wasn't much before.

So yeah, I gauge things on much more than weight. I go by #1 how I feel, #2 how I look, #3 strength and #4 weight. I lived with a nutritionist for a few years over a decade ago and she really helped me get away from focusing on weight too much. It's one factor, but not the most important. I also spent time working in an executive health club hanging around with the trainers and they really helped me focus on things other than weight as well. I don't mind if I lose weight slowly as long as my physical dimensions change for the positive as well. So I can live with a short term spike in weight but I'd sure like my waist line to reduce instead of expand  But I know that as I add muscle, the body will burn more calories and it will come. 

So I'll keep working on it. I think I'll cut out the corn nachos as a snack because of the amount of salt on them. I don't think that salt intake is doing me any favours.


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## Jim DaddyO

Good to see everyone progressing. I am too, not using the cane in the house today. Went for a short walk outside (with the cane) and that went OK.


----------



## Milkman

I've changed things a little. I'm now doing cardio only three days a week, and focusing on resistance training every day.

I started off doing intensive cardio every day as the core of my program, largely because my initial goal was to drop weight.

As I seem to have that more or less under control, and often have to eat more just to keep the weight on, I'm easing off on the hill climbing but continuing to hit the weights. My weight tolerance is 185 Lbs plus or minus 5 lbs. I haven't been out of that spec for more than three years now.

I made that adjustment about three weeks ago and have had no negative impact. I do have (and use) more energy with the weights now.
If DOMs are any indication, it's working.

I feel good (I knew that I would).


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## Merlin

I'm now down to 173 lbs. That's 63 pounds in ten months. My blood pressure has also normalized without meds.


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## Milkman

Merlin said:


> I'm now down to 173 lbs. That's 63 pounds in ten months. My blood pressure has also normalized without meds.


Awesome. That's pretty much exactly what I was able to do.

Congrats and stay the course. Having accomplished that, it's time for vigilance. Different things work for different people, but what I did was to set a tolerance range for myself.

My target weight was (and remains) 185 lbs. With my particular body that's lean enough. I allow myself no more than a 5 pound variance in either direction so 185 plus or minus 5.

When I approach 188 or 189 I take action. Same goes for when I hit 182 or 181.

That has enabled or at least facilitated a very stable weight for more than three years.

Best of luck and again, well done!


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## Merlin

Still dropping. 169 pounds and fitting in a 32" pair of jeans. My waist size is now 10" smaller than it was in January.


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## Ship of fools

Well crappers I am not doing as good as I thought I was back to 199, not able to move around as much presently ( waiting for a hernia repair ) find out tomorrow as to when they might get around to doing it. Good on you Merlin that's great to hear. ship


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## Milkman

Right on Merlin!

Don't sweat it Ship. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

I'm actually adding a few pounds now. I'm doing so carefully (adding muscle, not fat). My waist size is remaining stable, but I want my target weight to be 190 plus or minus 5 lbs.

That feels like a better weight for me, and in fact I could probably be close to 200 and still be in the same size jeans. 

I don't want to be a muscle head, but I'm really enjoying the strength training and your body changes when you do that.


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## Scotty

Congrats on your quest, ita takes a TON of dedication. I did something similar. I got into martial arts and started/basic calisthenics, practicing Kata's & running 4-5 days a week. Lost 50 pounds of fat and gained muscle. Went vegetarian in the process...its not how much you work out or run after to maintain....its a lifestyle you need to adopt. 
Like anything....if you want it, go for it. Get a vision in your head and see it through. Anyone can do it...I know this is cliche....but, JUST DO IT


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## greco

Practical winter fitness idea:










Cheers

Dave


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## Jim DaddyO

WTG to all the losers. This is one place where losing is winning. I think I may have shed a couple pounds, have not been very active since falling again a few weeks ago. I go for an MRI on the 16th and we will see if I messed it up further. Sure hurts more.


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## Merlin

I'm down to 161 pounds, 32" waist. In January, I was wearing size 42" jeans. I gave away the jeans to my dad as soon as I'd gotten small enough to go back to some older 38s I had. 

We were visiting my folks on Christmas Day, and thought it would be fun to grab the big jeans and see what they looked like on me:


image by Merlin Williams, on Flickr


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## Milkman

I love it. That's bloody marvelous man!

I refuse to ever lose what I've accomplished by falling back into the same habits that got me there.

I still go to the gym almost every day and still enjoy it immensely.

I decided to move up five or ten pounds to try and add some muscle. I don't want to be huge (not really feasible at my age anyway) but a little heavier in the same size of jeans is what I'm going for.


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## Ship of fools

Merlin that's great unfortunately for me its a few pounds back on during Christmas but I am back at it with doing some walking and light work outs ( still waiting for a surgery date for my Hernia ) so must be careful not to tear any more muscle tissue then already done. How's everyone else doing. ship


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## Stratin2traynor

Wow that's impressive Merlin. Good for you!

I am slowly changing my body composition with a powerlifting program. While "powerlifting" may suggest that I am lift ridiculous poundages, I can assure you that's not the case. Lol. I haven't lost a pound (still 260lbs) but have gotten MUCH stronger (still surprised by how much in 3 months) and my clothes are fitting much better. Losing inches and gaining inches in the right places. However, I still have a long way to go. I would like to lose at least 40 lbs of fat. I'm sure my strength and size gains will plateau at around 6 months, then the fat loss should continue. I guess I'll see in a few months.


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## Milkman

So, for the next two or three weeks the gyms will be clogged with people who think they can get in shape just by showing up. Mondays in January are the worst for that.

It's the one time of year I almost wish I had a home gym.


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## smorgdonkey

True. I can't even say that most of them are even trying but I say that from my recollection of years past. I have a semi-private gym and a home gym so I am not exposed to it any more. I have been using my Nitroflex a lot lately. If you have a spot for a bench, look for a Nitroflex on kijiji...excellent tool.


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## Milkman

Well it happens every year. I'd say the percentage of people who actually stick with it and make a positive improvement in their fitness is pretty low.

I'm always inspired by those who do, but realistically it's a very small group.

In the mean time, you have to elbow your way through little groups chatting about how effective or ineffective various activities are. Others are reading while leisurely pedaling a recumbent bike, not breaking a sweat and not a hair out of place.

All the equipment in the world, all the supplements, all the personal trainers and all the magic DVD programs will never replace determination and work ethic.

They GYMs LOVE new years resolutions. It's free money. They get to have their cake and eat it too (no refund and no attendance).


----------



## Merlin

Milkman said:


> Well it happens every year. I'd say the percentage of people who actually stick with it and make a positive improvement in their fitness is pretty low.


Most of the people who descend on the gyms as part of a New Year's resolution are seeking to lose weight, not necessarily improve their fitness. They're in the wrong place. They should be in the kitchen, as diet is the more important factor in releasing the body's stores of fat.


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## Milkman

Merlin said:


> Most of the people who descend on the gyms as part of a New Year's resolution are seeking to lose weight, not necessarily improve their fitness. They're in the wrong place. They should be in the kitchen, as diet is the more important factor in releasing the body's stores of fat.



I agree completely. The ROI from working out is pretty small in the context of weight loss. That's all about diet.

That doesn't change the reality that the gyms are packed for January and less so in February and March.


I'm of the opinion that you need to focus on both to improve overall fitness, but I guess that's not exactly rocket surgery.


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## Merlin

Put together a before/after pic. Before is 240 lbs; after is 160 lbs.


MW before and after by Merlin Williams, on Flickr


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## Milkman

Congrats Merlin.

That's a major accomplishment. You have every reason to be proud of it.

Be vigilent.


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## Merlin

Milkman said:


> Congrats Merlin.
> 
> That's a major accomplishment. You have every reason to be proud of it.
> 
> Be vigilent.


Thanks, Milkman.

I've posted often about this being a permanent change, not a diet. I'm definitely vigilant. I let myself indulge just a titch on Christmas Day. I had 1/4 cup of ice cream, and some berries, as well as a couple of generous glasses of Sherry and B&B. My weight jumped 3 pounds from the relatively large carb hit (I generally eat under 50g of carb per day, and never more than 15g at any one meal.)

It's taken a week to even that out.

I think a lot of people let themselves go on the weekends, and the rest of the week isn't enough to normalize. If I did that, I'd be back in size 42" jeans in no time.


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## Milkman

Right on. 

I agree with the whole paradigm of making it a life change. Short term goals are fine if they motivate you, but for me it was easier to just make a pledge to myself.

I actually can't recall exactly what it was, but all that matters is the first part.

From this day forward

That has worked for me.


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## smorgdonkey

Great accomplishment Merlin. You are doing well.

I was laughing at your carb comments though as my typical intake of carbs is astronomical...likely 70-80% of my diet.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

wtg Merlin, you look much better in your smaller skin.


----------



## Merlin

Well, as of this a.m., I'm down to 159 lbs. At my height of 5'7", that's a BMI of 24.9 - so I'm officially not overweight anymore! 

I'm going to keep doing what I've been doing, and eating low carb/moderate protein/high fat. I've never felt better in my adult life. My weight may still find a new and lower setpoint, and certainly there's still some body fat to spare, but I feel like I can maintain what I've accomplished over the past year.


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## Stonehead

I lost 23lbs by changing 2 things; not eating after dinner (no late night snacks) and drinking water instead of pop. YMMV


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## starjag

Merlin said:


> ... eating low carb/moderate protein/high fat.


Liberating life-style, isn't it?


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## Frank Fargon

hahah you guys are to me in the gym, what i am to you on guitar,loll
Do you even lift!?...Or ya all on cottage cheese hitting the treadmill 







peace
Frank (And that's a lame joke..Because i'm so weak on guitar and strong in the gym..Anyway)


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## Milkman

Some of us do lift Franky, in fact some of us do it five or six days a week.

But, lifting and then filling your body with stuff almost _designed_ to give one a heart attack is not what this thread's about.
(one reason I'm respectfully staying out of your food threads).

As for the guitar thing, I'd wager you're probably in the middle of the pack like most of us.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> in the middle of the pack like most of us.


There is a huge middle of the pack demographic, is my guess too.


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## Milkman

I'm in Georgia this week so it's push ups and crunches but no gym. When I get back on Thursday I'll stop at the gym on the way home from the airport.

After three days away it will be a real treat to do a heavy chest workout.


----------



## Ti-Ron

2 years ago, Milkman told me to don't give a f*** about other people (mostly douchebags) in the gym and do my stuff.

Fast forward to october this year. I've decided to (finally) go to the gym to recover from a racing injury. The first weeks where very hard on me.
My iliotibial band was hurting me so bad and going on the treadmill was a shame for me.
During summer, I was able to run 21 km in less than 2 hours and then, nothing more than 10 mins, inside, on a treadmill! But, I put efforts and hit the gym 4 times a week.

3 months later, I am able to play a full deck hockey game, running more than 1 hour without hurt. I know it's about weight lost, but at 6'2'' and only 155 pounds I can't, seriously, lost weight.
Now, I feel in shape, I can do what I love and I feel better overall. No more backpain when working, able to play guitar for 5 hours in a row without taking break....

Thanks Milkman!


----------



## Milkman

Ti-Ron said:


> 2 years ago, Milkman told me to don't give a f*** about other people (mostly douchebags) in the gym and do my stuff.
> 
> Fast forward to october this year. I've decided to (finally) go to the gym to recover from a racing injury. The first weeks where very hard on me.
> My iliotibial band was hurting me so bad and going on the treadmill was a shame for me.
> During summer, I was able to run 21 km in less than 2 hours and then, nothing more than 10 mins, inside, on a treadmill! But, I put efforts and hit the gym 4 times a week.
> 
> 3 months later, I am able to play a full deck hockey game, running more than 1 hour without hurt. I know it's about weight lost, but at 6'2'' and only 155 pounds I can't, seriously, lost weight.
> Now, I feel in shape, I can do what I love and I feel better overall. No more backpain when working, able to play guitar for 5 hours in a row without taking break....
> 
> Thanks Milkman!


Right on brother.

I wouldn't say this thread is about weight loss as much as it is about personal improvement. Certainly one can be slim and still be out of shape in many ways.

I love hearing stories like yours.

As you know, often chronic pain can actually be relieved and sometimes eliminated with exercise. When stuff hurts (usually because I over did it) the best cure is getting off my ass and hitting the gym.

Stay the course and congrats!


----------



## Ship of fools

Isn't that what it's all about, not the actual weight loss but the feeling good and able to move around. I am only 5' 7" and weight roughly around the 200 mark and since my surgery I feel a whole lot better physically and to be honest I haven`t felt this good in some time. And mostly doing stretch band exercising and more walking and eating better and I loose a few pounds and gain a few pounds but it seems I am at a stable weight and my BF is around 32 which really isn`t that bad. May not look as good as I did before but sure feel better. ship


----------



## Milkman

Ship of fools said:


> Isn't that what it's all about, not the actual weight loss but the feeling good and able to move around. I am only 5' 7" and weight roughly around the 200 mark and since my surgery I feel a whole lot better physically and to be honest I haven`t felt this good in some time. And mostly doing stretch band exercising and more walking and eating better and I loose a few pounds and gain a few pounds but it seems I am at a stable weight and my BF is around 32 which really isn`t that bad. May not look as good as I did before but sure feel better. ship


Absolutely right Ship. You can definitely feel the impact of even light cardio or resistance training. At the end of the day, your body will tell you if you're getting better or worse.

Also, you're ahead of the game by simply stopping to realize that you feel good. How often do you actually hear someone say that?

(other than James Brown)

- - - Updated - - -



Merlin said:


> Well, as of this a.m., I'm down to 159 lbs. At my height of 5'7", that's a BMI of 24.9 - so I'm officially not overweight anymore!
> 
> I'm going to keep doing what I've been doing, and eating low carb/moderate protein/high fat. I've never felt better in my adult life. My weight may still find a new and lower setpoint, and certainly there's still some body fat to spare, but I feel like I can maintain what I've accomplished over the past year.



Sustainability is EVERYthing for guys like you and I brother.

I laugh when I watch the Herbal Magic testimonials. "I lost 30 lbs and I've kept it off for three months".

I feel like saying "talk to me in three years".

It has to be a change of lifestyle, at least for me.


----------



## Ship of fools

Wow since my surgery and more movement out of me ( longer and more frequent walks ) I have lost 4 lbs and not looking to find it. Dang I am feeling pretty darn good and have much more energy and sleeping a lot fuller at night time. I think I am going on the right path now, yippy. ship


----------



## Milkman

Cheers Ship!

That's got to be encouraging.

I was down in Georgia all week so it was pushups and crunches. Tonight I got back to the gym and had a nice strong chest and ab day. Extra sets on a few things.

I dropped almost seven pounds this week because the food's so bad down there. I eat a lot less on the road.

Enchiladas verde for supper.


----------



## Milkman

I like to resurrect this thread every once in awhile because I think it's a widely shared life challenge for many of us.

Today's topic: The changing etiquette public gyms.

Here's one I encounter every few months. Guys who think it's ok to superset on three or four apparatus at once. 

I walk over to a peck machine. Nobody there. Water bottle nearby on the floor. I start doing my sets and a young guy comes over and informs me that he's using the machine. I tell him I don't mind if he works in between my sets. I get the A-hole response that "I shouldn't work out on a machine when somebody's stuff is there" and that he's "super setting". 

Sorry, in a public gym, you use once device at at time and you don't chat or waste time while others are waiting.

I keep doing my sets and ignore him.

Another time, I walk over to a leg press apparatus and nobody is anywhere near it. There are plates already there, so I add more for my sets and start up.

Again, a guy in his twenties walks up and gives my shit right and proper. "There were plates on the machine, so I should know somebody was on it" was his bitch.

I laughed it off, but when he was done his sets, he left all his plates on the same machine.

I've learned that you just have to laugh that crap off, but it's sad how few people do the most basic things that are actually clearly posted as club policy.

Remove plates after you're done.

Clean the machine for the next user.

Don't inconvenience other members by using several machines or apparatus at once.

Don't use scented products.

It's no wonder many people are put off by going to gyms with some of the dicks you have to put up with.


----------



## Ship of fools

Ain't it the truth and public gyms there are no super sets allowed once you leave a machine ( unless you are getting more weights ) you are considered to be finished. And when someone tries to give me what for I just tell them to take it up with management and continue on with what I am doing, only once did someone actually put hands on. I gladly informed him that I would gladly remove his hand from his shoulder with as much pain as I could muster, he declined.
Yep all kinds of jerks in a lot of gyms but I am there for one reason only and that is for my benefit to feel good and to enjoy myself cause at the end of the day I paid the same amount. I am still at around 200 but I am feeling alright. ship


----------



## Stratin2traynor

I gave up on public gyms about 10 years ago. The gym became so busy that it was more of an exercise in frustration than a workout. There were two many twinkies using 2 or 3 machines at once. Got the same attitude you guys were talking about. Can't forget the posers too. You know, the guys who divide there time between the pharmacy and the gym. They do a set, flex in front of the mirror then spend the next 10 minutes sitting on the bench and talking on their cell. Arghh!

So I threw in the towel and spent about $1000 on equipment and set up a room in my house. Now I can listen to the music I want, wear whatever I want, and do whatever exercises I want. All it takes is a little discipline. It's awesome.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Stratin2traynor said:


> I gave up on public gyms about 10 years ago.


Yes. I have a membership at a PRIVATE gym and I have a nice amount of gear at home. I don't 'waste' travel time to get there and I don't have to put up with idiots in my space either. 

Can't stand the attitude that Milkman describes getting by people. The worst kind (maybe worse than the 'super setters') are the people who are talking for 10 minutes between sets...but they still say they are 'on that machine'. Idiots. Those are the people who will tell you about the 2 and a half hour weight room session that they just finished. 30 minutes of work and 2 hours socializing. I'd have most of those types puking in about 20 minutes.


----------



## Milkman

I try to be flexible. I don't mind changing the sequence of the activities I have planned for a work out or even substituting a different type of exercise for the same muscle if I just can't seem to get on the device I want.

I know exactly what I intend to do when I arrive and I almost always get it done, but it's definitely a relief to see the nice weather coming. The gym will be less crowded for a few months.

For the most part, people there are courteous and friendly. There are some pinnacle level body builders there all the time who are more than happy to help much less experienced guys like me. 

As for working out at home, realistically you'd have to spend much more than people think if you hope to get the kind of quality of machines you'll find in a good gym.

For a grand or two you can get a good universal and a treadmill or eliptical but it would take a few more bucks to get anywhere near the kind of focused and specialized equipment you have access to in a gym.

For me it's a bit of an escape everyday.

As most of us realize, you don't need _anything_ to get in shape other than the will to do so.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Milkman said:


> As most of us realize, you don't need _anything_ to get in shape other than the will to do so.


And on that note...I feel the need to repost Arthur's Transformation. Anyone need a bit of inspiration? Perhaps benefit from a little encouragement?

[video=youtube;qX9FSZJu448]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX9FSZJu448[/video]


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## Stratin2traynor

I find I get a much better workout with the equipment I use now: Squat Rack, Olympic BB, Bench, a pair of Power Blocks, a few Kettlebells and some bands and rollers. No need for fancy pulley machine etc etc....I kept it simple and got stronger than ever. I am 46 and I can lift more now than I could when I was in my early 20's. I wish I could hop in a time machine and get back all of the hours I wasted on machines. The core of my workouts now are: Squat (ass to the floor), Deadlift (best exercise ever), Bench Press and Shoulder Press. I also do chin-ups and core accessory work. 

I do miss working out with fit women though. Always made me try harder (which in hindsight probably led to some chronic injuries LOL)



Milkman said:


> For a grand or two you can get a good universal and a treadmill or eliptical but it would take a few more bucks to get anywhere near the kind of focused and specialized equipment you have access to in a gym.
> 
> For me it's a bit of an escape everyday.
> 
> As most of us realize, you don't need _anything_ to get in shape other than the will to do so.


----------



## Merlin

I'm still maintaining at under 160 pounds, and I've added strength training. Currently doing pullups/chinups and shopping around for weight equipment. Need an Olympic bar, squat rack and a bench.


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## smorgdonkey

Stratin2traynor said:


> Squat (ass to the floor),


You must have the best genetics for knees on the planet-that is one horrible wear and tear exercise. Great for everything except the knees.


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## Stratin2traynor

I remember hearing and reading about how going below parallel is bad for the knees. When I was in high school, trainers would recommend leg extensions and leg curls etc... and would warn against below parallel squats. Now the research apparently shows that leg curls and leg extensions are bad and that squats below parallel are good. All I know is that my knees feel better going through a full range of motion. Legions of Olympic lifters do it on a regular basis and apart from some max lift injuries, their knees work just fine. 



smorgdonkey said:


> You must have the best genetics for knees on the planet-that is one horrible wear and tear exercise. Great for everything except the knees.


----------



## smorgdonkey

Cheers to those who can...I can do halfs with a lot of weight but can't go below half with anything. Olympic guys wrap 'em up pretty tight though.


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## Stratin2traynor

Well, I'm not saying I'm right - I guess time will tell. I've just come to realize that there are a lot of "authorities" out there that say this and that based on their shoddy research. Now, when I'm looking for an answer to something, I try to get as many perspectives as I can and make a decision from there. I try to go to people with practical experience over a bunch of people in lab coats. In this case I looked into powerlifting and olympic lifting. The answers I got were from guys in their 60's who've been doing it forever and whose knees were fine. They said that as long as you maintain good form and don't do anything stupid, your knees will be more than fine. I think those that get hurt don't have the mobility/flexibility to do that deep squat properly - that's when you run into big problems. 

Oddly enough, another thing I considered was the number people in the world that deep squat on a daily basis to do their business (#2 into a hole). from what I understand there are still millions (if not more) that do. Does that mean that they are blowing their knees out?


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## rhh7

18 years ago, I weighed 230 lbs., at a height of 5' 8.5". I had a heart attack, near death experience in ICU, followed by quintuple bypass surgery. Today at age 67, I weigh 185 lbs. My waist line has gone from 42 to 36. My blood pressure is 110/70, my resting pulse averages between 59-69. Having just read all 50 pages of this thread, you guys have inspired me to go the rest of the way. So my goal is to weigh 165 pounds, and get my waist down to 34.

The biggest thing I think I have learned, is that diets are usually destined for failure. 95% of the people regain 95% of the weight they lose on a given diet within two years. Another way to put it, fewer than 5% of the people are able to lose more than 10% of their body weight, and keep it off. So what is required is a lifestyle change. For me this has involved more intelligent choices about nutrition, without strict dieting or calorie counting. Fresh steamed vegetables rather than cookies, candy bars, donuts. More fresh fish, less red meat. More beans, and salads, less potatoes and rice. A glass of relatively dry wine, several times per week...rather than a 6-pack of beer every day. 

And I try to stay on my feet, and keep moving. So I walk a lot, and have the occasional session on the elliptical machine in my basement. I also occasionally lift weights, heavy with low reps. I still work 3 days per week in a warehouse. My entire 8-hour shift is on my feet, walking, bending, stooping, lifting 50-pound boxes from the floor to a waist-high workbench for much of the day. I have neither a chair, nor a stool at work.

Best of luck to all of you, on reaching your goals, healing injuries, and improving your health.


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## smorgdonkey

Stratin2traynor said:


> ed was the number people in the world that deep squat on a daily basis to do their business (#2 into a hole). from what I understand there are still millions (if not more) that do. Does that mean that they are blowing their knees out?


No...but they are 'coming up' lighter!!


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## Stratin2traynor

LMAO. True enough!!



smorgdonkey said:


> No...but they are 'coming up' lighter!!


Good for you rhh7. I hope to be in good shape in my late 60s and 70s (if I make it that far. My dad is 74, still works out and doesn't look his age at all. His secret is eat in moderation, drink and be merry. Enjoy your time while you're here. Don't be stupid and don't develop a sweet tooth because sugar will kill you!!


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## smorgdonkey

You know, every once in a while there is a machine that is the latest and greatest sort of thing. Remember when Bowflex was getting all of the infomercial time? Those things were $1500-$2000 or more. I will be the first one to say that it isn't the machine that makes you get in shape but it is awfully nice to have the tools if you already have the motivation (or if you plan on making yourself be motivated). 

I saw one of those Bowflex machines on kijiji for $250. That's unreal!! If I didn't already have a home machine that I really liked I would have gone about retrieving that pronto. Here's the thing - I search on there now and there are multiple ones that are $300, $350, etc. Anything that is under $500 is a fantastic price for one of those things IMO. 

There have been many incarnations of the home gym that have come and gone but they can all (most of them) be very effective if approached by a goal oriented 'non-lazy' type. P90X was really good and it only involved a chair, a chin-up bar and some dumbells. The biggest part of that one was the time per day.

Something that is pretty interesting about fitness and weight loss that I recently heard being discussed by medical experts was that the human body always will have a tendency to get back to its highest weight so that is one of the diet yo-yo issues that work against people sometimes.


----------



## Merlin

I did end up getting a weight outfit. Olympic bar and cast plates (300 lbs total), squat rack and a flat bench.

I'm over a month into the Stronglifts 5x5 program. (stronglifts.com - there's a great app for tracking workouts)

There's five compound exercises done on a two day rotation. Day A is squats, bench press and barbell rows; Day B is squats, overhead press and deadlift. Each exercise is done 5x5 - that is, five sets of five reps. Deadlift is just 1x5.

The starting weights are 45 lbs (that's the bar only!) for squats and the presses; 65 lbs for the barbell rows and 95 lbs for the deadlift. Each session, the weight goes up 5 lbs; 10 lbs for deadlifts.

I'm currently squatting 120 lbs, 80 lbs for the presses, 100 for the barbell row. Today was kinda cool - I deadlifted 165 lbs - which is more than I weigh!

I'm seeing some really solid gains and nice shaping taking place all over. It's not the type of workout where you end up with pumped up biceps, but WOW! do my thighs ever feel huge afterwards!


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## smorgdonkey

That's an excellent program Merlin. Simple routine with simple movements and weight. You will see amazing gains.

Most people lack motivation, not a good system.


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## Merlin

smorgdonkey said:


> That's an excellent program Merlin. Simple routine with simple movements and weight. You will see amazing gains.
> 
> Most people lack motivation, not a good system.


I think an organized, clearly defined system is essential to getting started and continuing with any sort of self-improvement regimen. Most people have the desire, but not the info...or worse, have an excess of conflicting info. I've been paralyzed by choice before.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Oh my, this thread is still going? I guess it is time to fess up and say I did not do any kind of change really. Watched a bit more of what I am eating, still eat bad stuff, just not as much. Of course, spring came and the weather is great and I am more active now that I can get around easier. So I lost like 10 pounds of winter weight in the last couple months. All of it burned off just by being active and working up a sweat. My shorts are falling down and I had to go through the closet for a belt, found an old one, and it fit!!!! So I hope the weather stays about the same for a while, I am loving it.


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## Stratin2traynor

That's awesome Merlin. The best program is the one you stick to. Congratulations on the gains.

I've had to stop lifting. Turns out my right shoulder has been torn up inside for 2 years. It's barely hanging on. All froma work related accident. Sucks. I'm getting surgery within a month or so. Then it's rehab and then back to the weights. I'm going to have to start a strict eating program to avoid packing on weight while I recover. 



Merlin said:


> I did end up getting a weight outfit. Olympic bar and cast plates (300 lbs total), squat rack and a flat bench.
> 
> I'm over a month into the Stronglifts 5x5 program. (stronglifts.com - there's a great app for tracking workouts)
> 
> There's five compound exercises done on a two day rotation. Day A is squats, bench press and barbell rows; Day B is squats, overhead press and deadlift. Each exercise is done 5x5 - that is, five sets of five reps. Deadlift is just 1x5.
> 
> The starting weights are 45 lbs (that's the bar only!) for squats and the presses; 65 lbs for the barbell rows and 95 lbs for the deadlift. Each session, the weight goes up 5 lbs; 10 lbs for deadlifts.
> 
> I'm currently squatting 120 lbs, 80 lbs for the presses, 100 for the barbell row. Today was kinda cool - I deadlifted 165 lbs - which is more than I weigh!
> 
> I'm seeing some really solid gains and nice shaping taking place all over. It's not the type of workout where you end up with pumped up biceps, but WOW! do my thighs ever feel huge afterwards!


----------



## Ship of fools

ships in 197 yippy and all I did was stop eating my occasional doughnut and no extra bread at home. ship


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## smorgdonkey

Merlin said:


> I think an organized, clearly defined system is essential to getting started and continuing with any sort of self-improvement regimen. Most people have the desire, but not the info...or worse, have an excess of conflicting info. I've been paralyzed by choice before.


I can't argue with any of that. One observation though is that often desire is manifested in more of a look out the window, think 'I wish' and then hit the couch for some tv time. Perhaps more people suffer from the choice paralysis than my skeptical side believes. I just think that there are way too many lazy people out there, I guess.

I have noticed that in our society, choice has really expanded and one can suffer that choice paralysis in many places - at the grocery store, when purchasing a phone, heck...look at the choices available for buying a guitar!


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## Milkman

As has been said before, there is no one solution.

Different approaches work for different people.

For me it wasn't complicated. I'm not saying it's easy, but if you take in fewer calories than you consume, you will lose weight.

The key point is to make it sustainable.

I'm still stable at between 185 and 190 and still take pleasure in working out in a nice gym 5~7 days a week.


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## Roryfan

After several years of blowing off my Dr.'s warnings about high cholesterol, my most recent physical also showed an increase in blood pressure & sugar. Concerned but still made excuses (I travel a lot, it's hard to eat good & exercise on the road). 

I'm 41, 5'11" & weighed 271 lbs.

Then 5 weeks ago I was invited to participate in a weight-loss competition with 2 co-workers, who travel as much as I do. Even as I was being invited I was making excuses about why I couldn't lose that much weight (the target is 40 lbs. by the end of January), but I caved in to the competitive pressure & joined. We have a weekly weigh-in with a small fine if any weight is gained in a given week as well as a much larger fine if the overall target is not met.

I was already reasonably active (I'm out 3-4 nights/week playing hockey, volleyball & softball) but didn't realize how badly I was eating. Started counting calories using the My Fitness Pal app but am not being overly draconian, I want to make a lifestyle change that will stick. I've cut back on the pizza, beer & dessert & have pretty much eliminated wings, pop & chips (Lay's Salt & Vinegar are my kryptonite). I realize that I'll plateau & will have to clean up my diet even more & increase the cardio & start lifting weights again, but the strategy is slow & steady.

5 weeks in & I'm down 10 lbs., seems like the motivation both financial & from my co-workers is working. The app has nutrition info on restaurant food, so I'm also making much more informed choices, things that I thought were healthy options (i.e. muffins & bagels vs. doughnuts) are actually quite awful.


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## Roryfan

nkjanssen said:


> That's a great app and a great approach. Once you're informed about caloric content, you generally don't have to be draconian. Suddenly you realize "Damn! That late night snack I eat all the time is like 800 calories!" Cut that one thing out, and suddenly you're losing weight. No need to make every meal celery and chia seeds. You want to have a burger at lunch? No problem. Maybe get the side salad instead of the fries, though. Want the fries too? OK, but try to have a lighter dinner, then. The little differences add up over time and you don't have to feel deprived.


I need to lose 1 lb./week so my goal is 1.5 lbs./week knowing that I may only break even when I travel. I'll still have pizza from time to time, but a couple of pieces vs. 5 or 6. Same thing with beer after hockey or ball, just have 1. I tried the "hardcore out of the gate" approach a few yrs. ago & then caved which led to massive binging. 

Not drinking too many calories & trying to eliminate the late night snack also seem to be working.

There's a shame factor about a food diary that is effective: do I really want that piece of pie because I'll have to enter it into my diary? And seeing how much cardio you have to do to offset that piece of pie, wings, chips etc. also makes you think twice about eating it.


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## Milkman

Roryfan said:


> After several years of blowing off my Dr.'s warnings about high cholesterol, my most recent physical also showed an increase in blood pressure & sugar. Concerned but still made excuses (I travel a lot, it's hard to eat good & exercise on the road).
> 
> I'm 41, 5'11" & weighed 271 lbs.
> 
> Then 5 weeks ago I was invited to participate in a weight-loss competition with 2 co-workers, who travel as much as I do. Even as I was being invited I was making excuses about why I couldn't lose that much weight (the target is 40 lbs. by the end of January), but I caved in to the competitive pressure & joined. We have a weekly weigh-in with a small fine if any weight is gained in a given week as well as a much larger fine if the overall target is not met.
> 
> I was already reasonably active (I'm out 3-4 nights/week playing hockey, volleyball & softball) but didn't realize how badly I was eating. Started counting calories using the My Fitness Pal app but am not being overly draconian, I want to make a lifestyle change that will stick. I've cut back on the pizza, beer & dessert & have pretty much eliminated wings, pop & chips (Lay's Salt & Vinegar are my kryptonite). I realize that I'll plateau & will have to clean up my diet even more & increase the cardio & start lifting weights again, but the strategy is slow & steady.
> 
> 5 weeks in & I'm down 10 lbs., seems like the motivation both financial & from my co-workers is working. The app has nutrition info on restaurant food, so I'm also making much more informed choices, things that I thought were healthy options (i.e. muffins & bagels vs. doughnuts) are actually quite awful.



"I was already reasonably active (I'm out 3-4 nights/week playing hockey, volleyball & softball) but didn't realize how badly I was eating."

You've highlighted a very important point. You can be as active as you want, but weight and weight loss is more directly linked to your eating habits than to how active you are.

Best of luck in your efforts.


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## Merlin

Milkman said:


> You've highlighted a very important point. You can be as active as you want, but weight and weight loss is more directly linked to your eating habits than to how active you are.


+1 on that. You can't out exercise a bad diet.

I didn't exercise at all in losing much of my body fat - went from a high of 240 down to 160 in a year. 

It wasn't until I'd reached a goal weight that I started lifting weights. It probably would have been a good thing to start the weight training earlier, but I don't think I was mentally ready at that point.

Cardio is overrated, IMO. Do it if you love that activity, but don't do it solely to burn calories.


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## smorgdonkey

...and to expand on the food topic:

most things in the grocery store aren't food, they are made out of food and a bunch of other things.

Eat food and the formula for success simplifies dramatically.


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## Merlin

smorgdonkey said:


> ...and to expand on the food topic:
> 
> most things in the grocery store aren't food, they are made out of food and a bunch of other things.
> 
> Eat food and the formula for success simplifies dramatically.


As the folks I hang with say - "Just eat real food!"

(keeping in mind that most of us on the paleo/primal/low carb spectrum don't consider grains to be real food.)


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## Frank Fargon

at 180lbs right now 
Bacon!?.. nah dont know what ya talkin about man 
Peace
Frank


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## Milkman

Canada Day 2014. 190 lbs.

Happy and feeling strong.


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## Ship of fools

ships at 188 and soon my target weight of 185 and then a new target 175.


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## Chito

I had to lose weight as I was diagnosed to be borderline diabetic and was told that if I keep it up, I'll be prescribed diabetes medication in a years time. So my doctor referred me to a dietician. Which I completely resisted by not going. Except after another 6 months, my doctor's office actually booked me for an appointment with the dietician. At first I was still doubtful of losing any weight as I don't really have any interest in exercising to lose weight. So I tried it the first few days and I told my wife, I feel like I'm being starved with the amount of food I'm getting. LOL I also stopped drinking pop. I am a lifetime coke drinker and I seldom drink water. One thing I noticed though is in a week's time I started to lose weight. So I moved on to more reasonable amounts of food but a lot of emphasis in cutting down on my carbs intake. If I am still hungry, I'll munch on vegetables, fruits or nuts. I seldom have chips, pizza or mostly anything you can buy in a fast food place. My wife and I take turns cooking food from scratch. 

It's now 4 months since and I have lost 20 lbs. I have plateaued though and I think I'm going to try to stay on my present weight which is around 183-185 range. I had an annual checkup just a couple of weeks ago and my blood work has not been as good as it has been in years. My good and bad cholesterol levels are okay, my blood pressure has been controlled and my blood sugar lever dropped from 6.4 to 5.1. 

So yes, food consumption is still the biggest culprit in weight gain and eating healthy is still the best way to lose weight.


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## Merlin

I'm 3 months into the Stronglifts program right now. I've added a good bit of muscle already.

Personal bests on my lifts (keep in mind these are 5 sets of 5 reps):

Squats: 225lbs
Overhead press: 110lbs
Bench press: 150lbs
Barbell rows: 140lbs
Deadlift (1 set of 5 reps): 255lbs


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## smorgdonkey

That's great strength Merlin. Frequency is the key. You are doing awesome.

Chito...the diabetes thing is complex - the strange thing is that it really isn't the sugar intake, it is the fat intake. The fat interferes with the way that insulin works and then the typical thing is to take more insulin. I knew a guy who was told by his doctor that he was going to have to be on diabetes meds for the rest of his life and when he got home & digested that information he just said that he thought it was unacceptable so he went on a diet that consisted of predominantly natural foods with very little fat (and little meat). He dropped weight, his blood sugar returned to normal and after a few months returned to see his doctor who decided that he had misdiagnosed him. 

That happens far too often - not the 'misdiagnosis' but the "it couldn't have been diabetes because we didn't treat it and now it's gone". Too many paradigms in our treatment system. Many people *address* diabetes with diet and exercise and much like the people who do the same with heart disease, they often fare far better than the ones who go for 'treatment'.


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## Kirk Hiltz

Awesome story Milkman. I am about six weeks into my journey, starting from about where you were (~240lbs). Made some major diet changes and still working on the exercise regimen, but change is happening.


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## Stratin2traynor

I'm envious of you guys. My shoulder is finally healed enough that I can start working out but just when I was getting ready to start, I caught this "virus that won't go away" and have been sick for a month. Hopefully it passes soon. Looking forward to working out! 

Glad to hear you guys are making progress.


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## smorgdonkey

Keep at it Kirk-too many people stop around the 6 weeks to 3 months time frame.

Stratin2traynor...I have heard the people coughing...I don't want it. Wait until you ditch it and then begin. Your shoulder will be even better for the extra time. Maybe start with a stretching routine while you are waiting to overcome that super bug.


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## Milkman

Right on Kirk, hang in there. Try to see it as a lasting change, not a series of short terms goals. That will be easier to sustain.

Best of luck.

I've been sick for three days. I felt better enough yesterday to hit the gym.

I did arms and core.

In about an hour I'll go again and do my back.

Then a rehearsal with the band and the rest of the day relaxing with family.

No worries about overindulgence during the football gam today. We'll be watching Spongebob.


----------



## JCJ

Waited a while to add my comments to this thread. Today represents one full year (to the day) since I've had a drink. And in the meantime I've rehabbed my back problems and spent the last 4-5 months at the gym. Between the (no) booze, yoga, pilates and cardio/strength workouts I've managed to lose about 22 pounds. My wife says I have never had a flatter stomach 
Went from size 36/38 waist to 33. Hard to believe normal fit people feel like this everyday.
Great thread, Milkman. Glad you started it !
James


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## urko99

I'm down 72 lbs in 4 months. I'm being a lot more active and on the government controlled Optifast program being sponsored by our local Windsor Western Hospital. I can't tell you how much better I feel! It has been one of the hardest things I've had to do was to loose weight after countless attempts. It was easier to quit smoking! Now I've got to keep it off and stay active. Moving to a new house and plenty of packing and moving stuff around for the next few months for sure. I've had a lot of great support from those that are close and I've got a ways to go for my goal weight. I wanna look good Giving my daughter away in August, at her destination wedding in the Mayan, Mexico. Life is Good!


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## Stratin2traynor

Wow. That's awesome. Congratulations! Can you tell us more about this diet?


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## urko99

Thanks. Here is some great q & a about the program offered in Ontario. Not sure if the programs are offered in BC.

commonly asked questions
www.optifast.ca/general.html


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## keto

I quit smoking March 4. Still marking the calendar, it was 132 days ago.

Right from day 1, I've been working out, primarily and almost exclusively weightlifting at home. I was undisciplined about diet, which is fairly normal for quitting smokers, so I have put on between 25 and 30 lbs but 2/3 of that is actually muscle. Now I'm starting to watch what I eat, and only need to drop ~10 lbs and I'm a few lbs into that now. 190ish, which is very heavy for me (6'0" tall) but I have more beef on me than ever in my life at age 52. I actually have shoulders! Feeling strong and fit, and driving the golf ball 40 yards further than I ever have before as an added side benefit.

Haven't had a drink in that time, and sorta scared to.....drinking has been the main cause of me starting smoking again most of the previous times I've quit. Can't say I miss it, I haven't been drinking much the past 5-7 yrs. Still, being offered a beer on a hot summer night like tonight...hard to turn that down.

If I make it past 6 months it will be the longest I have quit since I was 16 or 17. Feels like I probably will, haven't had a bad moment of temptation yet. And don't want to mess up the fitness gains.


----------



## Alex

Some great achievements above. Over the last year, down 15lbs. I still exercise regularly with a Treadclimber combined with sit ups and push ups but also incorporated the Royal Canadian Military regime that was featured in a newspaper sometime ago. 5 minutes a day + brisk walk or short run. From the article in the paper, the actress Helen Mirren has apparently been using this regime for many years - the 5 minutes combines 4 exercises for men; 2 minutes touching your toes exercise (I'm not flexible), 1 minute sit up variation, 1 minute lower back strengthening. 1 minute push ups. I now only do it a couple times a week but great when traveling. That 5 minute routine has done more for me in the last year that the other regular cardio/strengthening exercises I'm doing.


----------



## Stratin2traynor

keto said:


> I quit smoking March 4. Still marking the calendar, it was 132 days ago.
> 
> Right from day 1, I've been working out, primarily and almost exclusively weightlifting at home. I was undisciplined about diet, which is fairly normal for quitting smokers, so I have put on between 25 and 30 lbs but 2/3 of that is actually muscle. Now I'm starting to watch what I eat, and only need to drop ~10 lbs and I'm a few lbs into that now. 190ish, which is very heavy for me (6'0" tall) but I have more beef on me than ever in my life at age 52. I actually have shoulders! Feeling strong and fit, and driving the golf ball 40 yards further than I ever have before as an added side benefit.
> 
> Haven't had a drink in that time, and sorta scared to.....drinking has been the main cause of me starting smoking again most of the previous times I've quit. Can't say I miss it, I haven't been drinking much the past 5-7 yrs. Still, being offered a beer on a hot summer night like tonight...hard to turn that down.
> 
> If I make it past 6 months it will be the longest I have quit since I was 16 or 17. Feels like I probably will, haven't had a bad moment of temptation yet. And don't want to mess up the fitness gains.


Good for you!! I quit on April 19, 2007 and I feel great, recent diagnosis of cancer notwithstanding. It was the best decision I ever made. It was difficult but the more you focus on the good things you're doing, working out etc, the easier it'll get. For me, it feels great knowing that I no longer smell like an ashtray (it's funny how we don't really notice it when we are smoking), I don't have to skip out on gatherings or work every few minutes to "have a smoke". Anyways, stick with it and it'll get much easier.


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## Milkman

I'm encouraged and inspired to read the testimonials form everyone.

I almost feel like a recovered alcoholic in a sense. I know I could easily revert to the lifestyle that led me to a very unhealthy weight and general condition.

I remain vigilant and allow myself the tolerance I've mentioned (185 lbs +/- 5lbs). I've accepted that this, along with working out will have to be a part of my life, health permitting, for the rest of my life.

Again, I'm convinced that you have to make sustainable changes. Going on a diet and working out to accomplish a target is fine, but if you can't stay on the diet and workout, it's hard to understand how the changes you've accomplished can remain.


----------



## soldierscry

I have bounced up and down in weight over the years. It has always been a struggle for me. At one point I was going to the gym 6 Days a week and got my weight down from 250 ish down to 207, but never felt overly good. I would always end up fall off the exercise horse and jump back up in weight usually because of an injury or illness. All the time my cholesterol was still high. 

So about 2 years ago I started dieting again with minimal exercise (taking the stairs at work and going for a walk on my lunch break). I started at 250 lbs and drop a few pounds over the next few months but quickly plateaued around 235 lbs. At this point i decided to cut bread out of my diet. All my life as far back as I can remember I always found that after eating bread I would feel like crap and get this mucus build up in my throat (I should have listened to my body along time ago). I started to notice the my "Beer belly" getting flatter and soon cut out wheat all together. Within a few months i was down to 205 lbs and feeling great. Around this time I got a really bad flu which got me out of my exercising so I went up a little in weight but have leveled out at 212 lbs with no exercise and feel the best I ever have. 

At one point on my weight loss journey I decided to have a hamburger with a regular (wheat) bun. Well let me tell you I have never been in so much pain from eating something in my life. So I go to my doctor to get some tests and it turns out I have a wheat intolerance. It's not a full blown allergy to wheat but enough that even if a get a little be of wheat in my system I get bloated and produce enough gas to power a small country..lol. 

As far as the high cholesterol I had. I am happy to report that it is now with in the normal range and all other blood test results where excellent as well.

Here is a before and after picture from what I consider my worst to last year in Cuba.


----------



## Mooh

What a great, and encouraging, thread!

My weight and fitness has yo-yoed over the years, sometimes corresponding with the amount of labour I do versus a sedentary lifestyle that comes with my job. Throughout my teens, 20s, and early 30s, I had a primary job that was mostly physical labour, plus active hobbies like sports fishing, hiking, canoeing, etc. Around 35 I got an office job that had a lot of late hours and hours/days on the road. Fitness and eating habits went for a crap. Luckily that only lasted a few years but it was at a crucial turning point in life when it's harder to stay fit regardless. I quit drinking, made a conscious effort to exercise, curbed my bad diet habits, but only barely maintained my health...my job, though changed, is still pretty much a sit on my ass job. 

Then my appendix tried to kill me and it was a long hard road back to anything like my previous fitness.

Then my prostate tried to kill me and it was a very difficult road back to normal. I had no stamina or endurance, and for the first time I felt like I was being affected mentally. Not one to give in, I consulted my oncologist, chiropractor (who is a good friend and older athlete), GP, family, other cancer survivors, and Google. The advice varied but the common thread confirmed my belief that my first and last resort would be exercise and diet. 

The diet part has been only partly successful as the exercise part makes me very hungry. Lots of fresh fruit and vegetables, way less red meat, less bread, and most of all, moderation. 

The fitness part has been hugely successful. Though my weight is down only a little, as my wife says, it has moved around. Every morning I spend a minimum of an hour at the Y gym (an hour and a half this morning), and some days I get an additional hour in the evening. I used to find gyms boring (I'd tried them years ago) but the Y has TVs on the machines, and lots of variety so that my attention deficit doesn't kick in. I mix it up a lot. Being a small town, there are a lot of gym members I know, and everyone is pretty supportive. I usually but not always take the weekends off from the gym.

Where I've noticed the difference is in my ability to bicycle and kayak for much longer periods of time without it writing off the rest of my day. Band practices don't completely drain me, 7 hours of lessons don't mentally exhaust me, and best of all, the incontinence that comes with prostate cancer is way easier to control.

Physical fitness makes a person a much better medical patient, makes recovery from surgery much easier, and supports the mental effort to recover.

While I'm on the subject. Get checked for the likely cancers, early detection is everything.

Peace, Mooh.


----------



## GWN!

Very inspiring thread. I have never had much problem with weight. I have a very high metabolism so I tend to burn up calories pretty fast. Luckily I like to cook and so does my wife. So we tend to cook everything fresh and avoid processed foods. We always eat lots of fruits and vegetables. My cholesterol has always been low. My biggest downfall is that I love beef. I still try to limit my intake but find it more difficult during bbq season. 

I am currently at 176 lbs, 6' tall and 63 years old. The most I ever weighted was 215. That was after I stopped flying. When I got a desk job my body was used to burning up to calories during flight and my appetite had not gone away. So I started putting on the pounds. 

I have never been much on team sports. Always hated going to the gym. But I did like running and cycling. I used to jog everyday until my knees gave out. Now I cycle instead and swim which is easier on the joints. I used to cycle 4,000 to 5,000 km during the summer months. Now I am down to around 3,000 but still enjoy it immensely. 

So for me diet and moderate exercise work. Now if I could just get a new heart and knees everything would be peachy.


----------



## Milkman

There's a certain irony in the fact that I was never really into sports. Almost all the guys I know who were into sports as I was growing up are now unable to do much because of knee, back, neck injuries et cetera which make exercise painful or impossible.

That whole sports = health connection is holding less and less water for me.


----------



## overdriven1

I once stayed the same weight for 35 yrs


----------



## Lola

I don't know if I told any of you this before but I was a personal trainer for a corporation as well had my own private business. I weigh 5 more pounds then when I got married a century ago. lol I have an extremely high metabolic rate which is very ironic since I was just diagnosed with a hypo thyroid condition. I will be on medication for this. It befuddles my doctors brains though because in most instances of having a hypo thyroid people are overweight! 

I haven't worked out for many months and decided I would go to the gym with my body builder son. He finished before I did! I walked out of the gym like I was carrying a load. I still hurt right now. Too many hamstring curls. I went full bore! Did I learn a lesson? Not really. That little taste of going to the gym has motivated me to join one. I have a Weider machine and free weights in my basement but it's too easy to want to do something else instead.


----------



## keto

Personal milestone day yesterday. Before I say it, I will acknowledge that in the real world it's nothing, and also that I believe in celbrating my little personal victories so even though it's relatively nothing for me it was a big deal. Runonsentenceisrunon.

I lifted my own bodyweight for the first time ever (52yrs). Hex bar deadlift 190, ended up doing x3. Yay me. Next goal is squat that amount, though I have weak pins and will probably bench it first.


----------



## Stratin2traynor

keto said:


> Personal milestone day yesterday. Before I say it, I will acknowledge that in the real world it's nothing, and also that I believe in celbrating my little personal victories so even though it's relatively nothing for me it was a big deal. Runonsentenceisrunon.
> 
> I lifted my own bodyweight for the first time ever (52yrs). Hex bar deadlift 190, ended up doing x3. Yay me. Next goal is squat that amount, though I have weak pins and will probably bench it first.


Congratulations! That's awesome. I also believe in setting goals and celebrating once you reach them. Good for you!


----------



## Milkman

Personal improvement is never "nothing". 

The best you can hope for is to be better than you were yesterday.

I don't know what my maximum 1 rep weights are at all.

I do know that I add a little every few months in almost every muscle group.

Rock on Kent.


----------



## Milkman

I'm still maintaining and making small improvements.

Last night I weighed in at 189 LBS.

This is me on August 7. I'll be 55 in December.

I still hit the gym everyday when I'm in town.


----------



## JCJ

I've gone (mostly) Paleo. After reading Grain Brain and Wheat Belly it changed my mind a great deal about carbs vs (good) fats.
Also, finally able to get to the weights section of the gym. My back is holding up pretty good. I turn 55 next week and am determined not to go down without a fight. !!


----------



## Milkman

boomer said:


> I've gone (mostly) Paleo. After reading Grain Brain and Wheat Belly it changed my mind a great deal about carbs vs (good) fats.
> Also, finally able to get to the weights section of the gym. My back is holding up pretty good. I turn 55 next week and am determined not to go down without a fight. !!


Sorry, but what's Paleo?


----------



## JCJ

Milkman said:


> Sorry, but what's Paleo?


Basically, as in Paleolithic. What our cave-man, hunter-gatherer ancestors ate. The idea is that grains are something relatively new to our bodies (only about 40,000 years) versus meats, nuts, eggs, vegetation, berries (a timeline of millions of years). We are not suited for this stuff.
Many people show some intolerance to wheat and other grains, although not as severe as Celiac disease. By eliminating wheat and other grains there is evidence of better and more sustained weight loss, overall energy improvements and less stomach problems. There is more to this in the literature, but you get the idea.


----------



## Milkman

boomer said:


> Basically, as in Paleolithic. What our cave-man, hunter-gatherer ancestors ate. The idea is that grains are something relatively new to our bodies (only about 40,000 years) versus meats, nuts, eggs, vegetation, berries (a timeline of millions of years). We are not suited for this stuff.
> Many people show some intolerance to wheat and other grains, although not as severe as Celiac disease. By eliminating wheat and other grains there is evidence of better and more sustained weight loss, overall energy improvements and less stomach problems. There is more to this in the literature, but you get the idea.


I hear a lot about this stuff.

I'll do a little research, thanks.


----------



## WCGill

boomer said:


> I've gone (mostly) Paleo. After reading Grain Brain and Wheat Belly it changed my mind a great deal about carbs vs (good) fats.
> Also, finally able to get to the weights section of the gym. My back is holding up pretty good. I turn 55 next week and am determined not to go down without a fight. !![/QUOT
> 
> Do some real research and find out what a crock the Wheatbelly book is.


----------



## Stratin2traynor

WCGill said:


> boomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've gone (mostly) Paleo. After reading Grain Brain and Wheat Belly it changed my mind a great deal about carbs vs (good) fats.
> Also, finally able to get to the weights section of the gym. My back is holding up pretty good. I turn 55 next week and am determined not to go down without a fight. !![/QUOT
> 
> Do some real research and find out what a crock the Wheatbelly book is.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've done a lot of research and don't think that Wheatbelly is a "crock". I think the author made some bold statements that have yet to be proven (or disproven) - likely to sell more books because who draws attention more than an extremist. But to say it's a crock is jumping the gun a bit. I've even talked to some doctors who've said that they are bound by law to recommend Canada's Food guide even though they think it doesn't promote health. I had a good laugh one day when I was discussing nutrition with my Dr who is in really good shape. I asked him what I should have for breakfast and he gave me a printout of the Canada Food Guide. Then I asked "What do YOU have for breakfast" He said "Bacon and eggs. No toast." LOL.
> 
> It's a funny world we live in.
Click to expand...


----------



## Lola

Stratin2traynor said:


> WCGill said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I've done a lot of research and don't think that Wheatbelly is a "crock". I think the author made some bold statements that have yet to be proven (or disproven) - likely to sell more books because who draws attention more than an extremist. But to say it's a crock is jumping the gun a bit. I've even talked to some doctors who've said that they are bound by law to recommend Canada's Food guide even though they think it doesn't promote health. I had a good laugh one day when I was discussing nutrition with my Dr who is in really good shape. I asked him what I should have for breakfast and he gave me a printout of the Canada Food Guide. Then I asked "What do YOU have for breakfast" He said "Bacon and eggs. No toast." LOL.
> 
> It's a funny world we live in.
> 
> 
> 
> Living healthy is just common sense and logic. It's not rocket science! Everything in moderation!
Click to expand...


----------



## Electraglide

boomer said:


> Basically, as in Paleolithic. What our cave-man, hunter-gatherer ancestors ate. The idea is that grains are something relatively new to our bodies (only about 40,000 years) versus meats, nuts, eggs, vegetation, berries (a timeline of millions of years). We are not suited for this stuff.
> Many people show some intolerance to wheat and other grains, although not as severe as Celiac disease. By eliminating wheat and other grains there is evidence of better and more sustained weight loss, overall energy improvements and less stomach problems. There is more to this in the literature, but you get the idea.


I figure our ancestors ate what they could when they could which included any type of grain the animals ate. A lot of what they ate probably wasn't all that fresh either. Or, cooked.


----------



## Stratin2traynor

Electraglide said:


> I figure our ancestors ate what they could when they could which included any type of grain the animals ate. A lot of what they ate probably wasn't all that fresh either. Or, cooked.


More importantly, they ate a lot less than we currently do...


----------



## Merlin

WCGill said:


> boomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've gone (mostly) Paleo. After reading Grain Brain and Wheat Belly it changed my mind a great deal about carbs vs (good) fats.
> Also, finally able to get to the weights section of the gym. My back is holding up pretty good. I turn 55 next week and am determined not to go down without a fight. !![/QUOT
> 
> Do some real research and find out what a crock the Wheatbelly book is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my research:
> 
> 
> 
> MW before and after by Merlin Williams, on Flickr
> 
> That's from 240lbs to 160lbs in one year.
Click to expand...


----------



## Milkman

Stratin2traynor said:


> More importantly, they ate a lot less than we currently do...



They also died younger.

I don't think we have it all figured out by any means, but I do think we know more than our ancestors did.

- - - Updated - - -



Merlin said:


> WCGill said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my research:
> 
> 
> 
> MW before and after by Merlin Williams, on Flickr
> 
> That's from 240lbs to 160lbs in one year.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a great acomplishment Merlin.
> 
> What can anyone say but be proud and happy?
> 
> I hope you can make it sustainable.
Click to expand...


----------



## WCGill

Awesome Merlin, there is undoubtably more to this story. There is fortunately, very little scientific basis to the claims made in that book.


----------



## Electraglide

Stratin2traynor said:


> More importantly, they ate a lot less than we currently do...


It probably balanced out. Sometimes they ate until they were too full to eat, other times they probably didn't eat much for a while because there wasn't much to eat. I figure they probably exercised a lot more. Fast food took on a different meaning. So, possibly, did having the family over for diner.


----------



## Merlin

WCGill said:


> Awesome Merlin, there is undoubtably more to this story. There is fortunately, very little scientific basis to the claims made in that book.


At this point, with metabolic syndrome behind me, at an appropriate weight, with more lean mass and lower body fat %, an excellent lipid profile and enjoying the best health of my adult life, I really don't care what anyone thinks of the science.

I am thriving, not merely surviving.


----------



## Lola

Stratin2traynor said:


> More importantly, they ate a lot less than we currently do...


I eat to live NOT live to eat! 

I eat until I am satisfied, not full but satisfied! I can't eat until I am "full"! I get a horrible headache! I can never get my moneys worth at a buffet. I probably eat about $3 worth of food. I eat the cheapest stuff on the menu, vegetables and fruit. I never liked going out to dinner anyhow. I hate sitting still that long!


----------



## Milkman

Lola said:


> I eat to live NOT live to eat!
> 
> I eat until I am satisfied, not full but satisfied! I can't eat until I am "full"! I get a horrible headache! I can never get my moneys worth at a buffet. I probably eat about $3 worth of food. I eat the cheapest stuff on the menu, vegetables and fruit. I never liked going out to dinner anyhow. I hate sitting still that long!


I avoid buffets unless it's a high end place.

If you want to keep me out of your dining establishment, all that's required is a sign with "all you can eat".

Any restaurant that focusses on quantity over quality is not interesting to me.


----------



## Winterheim

Milkman said:


> I avoid buffets unless it's a high end place.
> 
> If you want to keep me out of your dining establishment, all that's required is a sign with "all you can eat".
> 
> Any restaurant that focusses on quantity over quality is not interesting to me.


Mike, you haven't been to an AYCE Japanese/Sushi place in Toronto or Hamilton. August 8 in Hamilton/Burlington is the bee's knees.


----------



## Milkman

Winterheim said:


> Mike, you haven't been to an AYCE Japanese/Sushi place in Toronto or Hamilton. August 8 in Hamilton/Burlington is the bee's knees.


I love Japanese food, but I guess my point is that food is the LAST thing you should cheap out on.

I'm willing to pay a little more for a good healthy meal. You won't gain me as a customer by promising as much gluttony as I can handle.


----------



## robare99

I don't eat until I'm full. 

I eat until I'm disgusted with myself. 


:,(

FML


----------



## Stratin2traynor

Milkman said:


> They also died younger.
> 
> I don't think we have it all figured out by any means, but I do think we know more than our ancestors did.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> Merlin said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a great acomplishment Merlin.
> 
> What can anyone say but be proud and happy?
> 
> I hope you can make it sustainable.
> 
> 
> 
> They died younger due to infectious diseases. Oddly, no one had heard of washing their hands yet. It had nothing to do with food.
> 
> If if anyone has some answers, I think it's Merlin. Well done. That's quite an accomplishment.
Click to expand...


----------



## Milkman

Stratin2traynor said:


> Milkman said:
> 
> 
> 
> They also died younger.
> 
> I don't think we have it all figured out by any means, but I do think we know more than our ancestors did.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> They died younger due to infectious diseases. Oddly, no one had heard of washing their hands yet. It had nothing to do with food.
> 
> If if anyone has some answers, I think it's Merlin. Well done. That's quite an accomplishment.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, depending on how far back we're talking, it had a lot to do with food.
> 
> They'd lose their teeth and be unable to eat.
Click to expand...


----------



## Stratin2traynor

Milkman said:


> Stratin2traynor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, depending on how far back we're talking, it had a lot to do with food.
> 
> They'd lose their teeth and be unable to eat.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. This is just getting silly now.
Click to expand...


----------



## Milkman

I was hoping it would.


Beats a pissing contest.


----------



## Lola

Thyroid issues have a major influence on weight gain as well. I have a hypo thyroid which means my metabolic rate should be slow. I defy the odds though. I am a toothpick but I should be overweight and lethargic according to my doctor. I am the complete opposite. I can eat vast quantities of highly caloric dense foods and not gain a lb. I am super active/hyper as hell! Always on the move unless I am asleep!


----------



## keto

8/27 was 190 deadlift, it continues to go up and did 230x2 x2 last week. Did a single bench press over my bodyweight last night, 200 lbs (good form, right down to chest then back up) - as expected, beating my squat to that milestone. Been squatting more but man I suck at it. Just bought a belt yesterday so maybe that'll help a little.

Here's the setup:

I don't use the bike as much as I should. Behind it, I use the white frame for dips on the back side facing the wall, occasionally leg raises on the front side. Behind that, the bench which I don't use for bench press, just for the leg raise attachment. At the far end, my power cage.


Put a cheap mirror behind the cage for form check with squats. I also do bench press in the cage, setting the safeties so the bar can just touch my chest but couldn't touch my head or throat. And I do chinups/pullups on the cage, and various other training on the bench.


Across from the bike and etc is hex bar station, just deadlifts and occasionally shrugs here. Behind that my curl bar, which gets very little use these days.


And around the corner another station, anything straight barbell gets done here - overhead press (last week I put 100lbs over my head for the first time, good form all arms no leg bump), calf raises, Romanian deadlifts, and other stuff. My son's drums on the right. 


I'm probably the only mostly healthy guy in here over 30 actively trying to put on weight  Floating around 195 now.


----------



## johnnyshaka

keto said:


> I'm probably the only mostly healthy guy in here over 30 actively trying to put on weight  Floating around 195 now.


I'll gladly give you some, or all, of the 25 lbs I want to lose! 

BTW, very nice setup.


----------



## Milkman

Good set up Kent. I'm not to the point where I could make a home gym work. I like the environment at the gym. 

The only thing that makes me consider setting up a gym at home is overcrowding and the occasional inconsiderate gym member.

BTW, if you attend a public gym, super-setting on two or three machines is kind of a douche bag thing to do.

If ten or fifteen people do that, each using several machines or apparatus at once, it's bloody hard for others to get their workout in.

I try to go in the mornings on the weekends (much quieter), but that's not feasible through the week.


----------



## Clean Channel

I've recently fallen back in love with running.

Any of you folks using Strava to track your runs? (because we should follow each other then)


----------



## Milkman

I picked up this nice inversion table for $100. It looks like it was never used.

I like it for stretchng my back and neck.


----------



## Clean Channel

I ran 21.8k this morning, on trails, during the extreme cold weather alert. First half marathon I've completed in a few years. I felt like it'd be a good way to stick it to Blue Monday.


----------



## Milkman

Clean Channel said:


> I ran 21.8k this morning, on trails, during the extreme cold weather alert. First half marathon I've completed in a few years. I felt like it'd be a good way to stick it to Blue Monday.


Holy crap batman!

Congrats. I doubt I could do the same.


----------



## davetcan

Clean Channel said:


> I ran 21.8k this morning, on trails, during the extreme cold weather alert. First half marathon I've completed in a few years. I felt like it'd be a good way to stick it to Blue Monday.


I don't think I could even walk it.


----------



## Lola

Awesome~! Way to be!! Be damned proud of yourself for sticking to your guns! That is one helluva major accomplishment!


----------



## greco

Milkman said:


> View attachment 17493


Be careful that it doesn't give you a slanted outlook on life...%h(*&
(sorry...I just couldn't resist)


----------



## Robert1950




----------



## Clean Channel

Milkman said:


> Holy crap batman!
> 
> Congrats. I doubt I could do the same.


Thanks!

You'd be surprised what a body can do with some training and patience. When I started running eight years ago, I could hardly go 100m before I had to walk and rest, despite being very in shape from being at the gym several times a week and from having done regular cardio on various machines.

I did realize right away that I loved the feeling of running outside. It didn't really bother me that I was terrible at it, I just kept going, running and walking, running and walking.

One day, on the return leg of my regular route, I found I didn't need to rest, and next thing I knew I ran the whole way home. For several weeks I did that, run/walking on the way out, then running the whole way home.

And then I suddenly was able to run the whole way out, take a short walk rest, then run the whole way home. Soon after that, I dropped the little walk break in the middle, and was running entire routes. 

I added an 8k route, then a 10k and a later a 16k. Soon after I signed up for my first half marathon, and in the following years I did a bunch of half marathons all over Southern Ontario.

In the past several years, I never dropped running, but found it hard to find time with our young daughter at home. I would go out only about once a week, and sometimes I'd miss weeks entirely.

This past September our daughter started Junior Kindergarten, and I suddenly found myself with the mornings free. I got right back into it in no time, and am loving it more than ever!

One other neat thing is that I retired my old GPS running watch and instead use my cell phone to track my runs. This has given me the opportunity to capture some of the scenery I encounter while out there. If you don't mind this already long post getting a little longer, here are a few...


----------



## Milkman

Wow, those are gorgeous pictures.

There are trails almost exactly like those in your pictures just a few steps from my door. I used to ride them often on mountain bikes.

I may start up again in the spring.

I get a very positive feeling reading your posts in this thread. 

What region of Canada is home for you?


----------



## Clean Channel

Milkman said:


> Wow, those are gorgeous pictures.
> 
> There are trails almost exactly like those in your pictures just a few steps from my door. I used to ride them often on mountain bikes.
> 
> I may start up again in the spring.
> 
> I get a very positive feeling reading your posts in this thread.
> 
> What region of Canada is home for you?


Great to hear you might be out riding your trails! If you get back at it, perhaps bump this thread with some pictures!

Believe it or not, I live in Mississauga, ON (not out in the country as you might expect from the pics). There are some great parks in this city, and all of those pics were taken in a large and lovely conservation area nearby. 

I'm fortunate that we bought a home right on the Waterfront trail, which follows the edge Lake Ontario in countless kilometers in both directions. If you're in to walking, running, or cycling, it's a perfect place to be. It also means in the summer we enjoy hours-long walks with our daughter (in her red wagon), visiting various playgrounds and splash pads all along the Waterfront Trail.


----------



## skilsaw

Saw the doctor in October 2015. I had been 250 lbs for 10 or 12 years. He said "Exercise, lose weight and stop eating junk." Now I'm at the rec centre 2 or 3 times a week and spend a total of 45 minutes on the rowing machine and bike. Average heart rate during workout - 142 beats per minute. Max heart rate up to 165 bpm.
The big news is weight now 234 lbs!!!! I need to buy new pants.

No end goal in mind, but I haven't been below 200 lbs for over 20 years. Being there again would be amazing.


----------



## Milkman

Clean Channel said:


> Great to hear you might be out riding your trails! If you get back at it, perhaps bump this thread with some pictures!
> 
> Believe it or not, I live in Mississauga, ON (not out in the country as you might expect from the pics). There are some great parks in this city, and all of those pics were taken in a large and lovely conservation area nearby.
> 
> I'm fortunate that we bought a home right on the Waterfront trail, which follows the edge Lake Ontario in countless kilometers in both directions. If you're in to walking, running, or cycling, it's a perfect place to be. It also means in the summer we enjoy hours-long walks with our daughter (in her red wagon), visiting various playgrounds and splash pads all along the Waterfront Trail.


Well that explains why the trails look so familiar, LOL.

I still hit the gym five or six days a week, but out doors stuff would be good for lots of reasons.

I'm within sight of the Grand River. There are extensive trails here. It's a shame to let it go to waste.


----------



## Milkman

skilsaw said:


> Saw the doctor in October 2015. I had been 250 lbs for 10 or 12 years. He said "Exercise, lose weight and stop eating junk." Now I'm at the rec centre 2 or 3 times a week and spend a total of 45 minutes on the rowing machine and bike. Average heart rate during workout - 142 beats per minute. Max heart rate up to 165 bpm.
> The big news is weight now 234 lbs!!!! I need to buy new pants.
> 
> No end goal in mind, but I haven't been below 200 lbs for over 20 years. Being there again would be amazing.


That's progress man.

In the most simple sense, move more and eat less are the only two things you need to do in order to drop the weight, and it can be very much an upward spiral when you start to see such results.

Rock on.


----------



## skilsaw

Milkman said:


> That's progress man.
> 
> In the most simple sense, move more and eat less are the only two things you need to do in order to drop the weight, and it can be very much an upward spiral when you start to see such results.
> 
> Rock on.


 Thanks for your encouragement. It makes me feel so good when people notice and say nice things. I also surprise myself when I have to park on the 5th floor of the parkade. The stairs are getting easier.


----------



## Lola

Just getting in the door from work! My husband made a vegetarian pizza for me with ground tofu! I swear to god it tasted like meat. He also bought tofu sausage! I couldn't believe it! It was even spicy and had the texture of real sausage!

He is very concerned about my diet because it's yogurt, tofu, fruit and veggies. He was reading an article on tofu! Eating too much of it can cause surges in estrogen which for me doesn't matter but for guys that's a different story. Eating too much or ODing on tofu can give certain cancers a nice environment in your body to grow and multiply! That, I didn't know! I have to find some more protein sources. I eat a lot of beans(assorted varieties) and a lot of natural peanut butter.

He wants me to start eating fish but I can't! It was living before hand! I can't and won't eat anything dead! I am going to go to a nutritionist and try to come up with the healthiest vegetarian diet that I can!


----------



## skilsaw

Lola said:


> Just getting in the door from work! My husband made a vegetarian pizza for me with ground tofu! I swear to god it tasted like meat. He also bought tofu sausage! I couldn't believe it! It was even spicy and had the texture of real sausage!
> 
> He is very concerned about my diet because it's yogurt, tofu, fruit and veggies. He was reading an article on tofu! Eating too much of it can cause surges in estrogen which for me doesn't matter but for guys that's a different story. Eating too much or ODing on tofu can give certain cancers a nice environment in your body to grow and multiply! That, I didn't know! I have to find some more protein sources. I eat a lot of beans(assorted varieties) and a lot of natural peanut butter.
> 
> He wants me to start eating fish but I can't! It was living before hand! I can't and won't eat anything dead! I am going to go to a nutritionist and try to come up with the healthiest vegetarian diet that I can!


 A row of lettuce on a farm in the San Fernando Valley is alive. Then a mexican with a big knife comes and cuts the head off one. (That is where the ISIL terrorists learned to do executions) Now the lettuce is dead.
Don't eat lettuce.


----------



## torndownunit

Clean Channel said:


> Thanks!
> 
> You'd be surprised what a body can do with some training and patience. When I started running eight years ago, I could hardly go 100m before I had to walk and rest, despite being very in shape from being at the gym several times a week and from having done regular cardio on various machines.
> 
> I did realize right away that I loved the feeling of running outside. It didn't really bother me that I was terrible at it, I just kept going, running and walking, running and walking.
> 
> One day, on the return leg of my regular route, I found I didn't need to rest, and next thing I knew I ran the whole way home. For several weeks I did that, run/walking on the way out, then running the whole way home.
> 
> And then I suddenly was able to run the whole way out, take a short walk rest, then run the whole way home. Soon after that, I dropped the little walk break in the middle, and was running entire routes.
> 
> I added an 8k route, then a 10k and a later a 16k. Soon after I signed up for my first half marathon, and in the following years I did a bunch of half marathons all over Southern Ontario.
> 
> In the past several years, I never dropped running, but found it hard to find time with our young daughter at home. I would go out only about once a week, and sometimes I'd miss weeks entirely.
> 
> This past September our daughter started Junior Kindergarten, and I suddenly found myself with the mornings free. I got right back into it in no time, and am loving it more than ever!
> 
> One other neat thing is that I retired my old GPS running watch and instead use my cell phone to track my runs. This has given me the opportunity to capture some of the scenery I encounter while out there. If you don't mind this already long post getting a little longer, here are a few...


I got really hooked on running over the summer. I had never tried it because I had knee surgery in my 20's and it always kind of bothered me. I got hooked quick though (the knee held up fine) and I was ready to run my first 5k in September. Then I badly pulled my hamstring, and strained it in another place (pulled near the glute, strained near the knee). It was heartbreaking. Luckily the fact that I also do Yoga at least once a day stopped it from being more serious and helped a ton rehabbing it. I am only to the point now where I can run a solid pace for about 20 minutes at this point. I plan on being ready to run again by spring though. Luckily I am able to work out on it with no problems, it's just that the leg fatigues really quick when running specifically.


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## Clean Channel

torndownunit said:


> I got really hooked on running over the summer. I had never tried it because I had knee surgery in my 20's and it always kind of bothered me. I got hooked quick though (the knee held up fine) and I was ready to run my first 5k in September. Then I badly pulled my hamstring, and strained it in another place (pulled near the glute, strained near the knee). It was heartbreaking. Luckily the fact that I also do Yoga at least once a day stopped it from being more serious and helped a ton rehabbing it. I am only to the point now where I can run a solid pace for about 20 minutes at this point. I plan on being ready to run again by spring though. Luckily I am able to work out on it with no problems, it's just that the leg fatigues really quick when running specifically.


Sorry to hear about the setback! 

Yeah, yoga is perfect for keeping all the necessary muscles stretched and strengthened. In the past year I've added a few yoga strengthening exercises that have really helped keep everything balanced in my legs. As a result, I've moved away from using machines as much as I used to. 

Keep us posted on your progress this spring!


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## torndownunit

Clean Channel said:


> Sorry to hear about the setback!
> 
> Yeah, yoga is perfect for keeping all the necessary muscles stretched and strengthened. In the past year I've added a few yoga strengthening exercises that have really helped keep everything balanced in my legs. As a result, I've moved away from using machines as much as I used to.
> 
> Keep us posted on your progress this spring!


I've never really used machines. I used to do a lot of interval training, and over the last couple of years switched almost exclusively to kettle bells. They are great because you have a huge variety of exercises you can cycle through to switch things up. People say they are for strength and endurance training more than muscle building, but I look in the best shape I have ever been in (and I have worked out since I was 20) at 39. I do those, and and roughly an hour of yoga or stretching exercises a day.


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## Guest

Here's a workout for guitarists.

Air Guitar: The Dumbest Workout You Should Be Doing 
Put Down the Kettlebells, and Pick Up Your Air Ax

_DEAR CROSSFIT DORK: Your workout sucks. I have zero desire to learn a Russian twist, 
Romanian deadlift, or Bulgarian split squat. I refuse to do burpee box jump combos 
"for as many rounds as possible." I won't even Google "Turkish get-up." Instead I'm 
going to train my Spartan body the AMERICAN way... playing air guitar to metal music. 
I'll start with a light warm-up, Danzig's "Mother." Then I'll move on to Metallica's 
"Enter Sandman," or "Master of Puppets" if the shoulders feel good._


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## Lola

So the new regime of the year is walking! It's easy and free~! My husband has gained quite a bit of weight back due to his cancer meds and always feeling like a bag of dirt. The meds make him tired, irritable and lacking any energy whatsoever. He has been taken off of one med and put on another. The difference is day and night. We are now walking 5k in the morning and 5K at night. I walk with him whenever the opportunity arises. Yesterday we did 5 k in under 50 minutes and then again in the evening. The bonus is I get eat a lot more than what I usually eat because of the calorie deficit!

I am out to score some brownie points! lol

Doing some home nutritional homework.
How many grams of protein, essential fats, carbs do I need or what's commonly know as my RDI! Paramount to eating healthy! (vegan gummy worms are my downfall)


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## torndownunit

Lola said:


> So the new regime of the year is walking! It's easy and free~! My husband has gained quite a bit of weight back due to his cancer meds and always feeling like a bag of dirt. The meds make him tired, irritable and lacking any energy whatsoever. He has been taken off of one med and put on another. The difference is day and night. We are now walking 5k in the morning and 5K at night. I walk with him whenever the opportunity arises. Yesterday we did 5 k in under 50 minutes and then again in the evening. The bonus is I get eat a lot more than what I usually eat because of the calorie deficit!
> 
> I am out to score some brownie points! lol
> 
> Doing some home nutritional homework.
> How many grams of protein, essential fats, carbs do I need or what's commonly know as my RDI! Paramount to eating healthy! (vegan gummy worms are my downfall)


While nutrition is complex, it's also simple in some ways. If you completely cut out everything processed (from packaged foods to condiments), cut down on alcohol (calories), you are well on the way to healthy eating. Add 'super foods' with healthy fats (avocado), eat more produce. Those basics can make a huge difference even if you aren't fine tuning them as far as you mention.

I personally feel there is nothing beneficial about dairy in a diet and felt a million times better when I cut it out. You can get what you get from dairy from other food sources.


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## skilsaw

Lola said:


> I am out to score some brownie points! lol


Damn you for mentioning Brownies! Now I won't be able to think of anything else until I satify the craving.

Now, truthfully...
Two 5 km walks a day is fantastic! And 50 minutes per 5 km is really rocking.
A while ago I was walking 10 km on Saturday morning and we were happy to get it done in two hours exactly.

Also glad to hear your other half is on a more agreeable medication. Nothing worse than persevering with bad side effects because you think that med is your only choice.


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## Lola

torndownunit said:


> While nutrition is complex, it's also simple in some ways. If you completely cut out everything processed (from packaged foods to condiments), cut down on alcohol (calories), you are well on the way to healthy eating. Add 'super foods' with healthy fats (avocado), eat more produce. Those basics can make a huge difference even if you aren't fine tuning them as far as you mention.
> 
> I personally feel there is nothing beneficial about dairy in a diet and felt a million times better when I cut it out. You can get what you get from dairy from other food sources.


I really can't cut out yogurt and cheese! I eat cheese maybe twice a week. Usually in an egg white omelet. I eat Source yogurt which is one of the healthier yogurts! I add seeds like pumpkin and sunflower seeds to my diet. I eat tofu, yogurt, egg whites with maybe a yolk thrown into the mix a couple of times a week. I eat probably 7 servings of veggies alone a day. I can't lie though, I do succumb to eating a bowl or two a week of Ms. Vickies Sea salt and malt vinegar chips a week. I have to try and give up these vegan gummi worms. Nothing but empty calories. I don't drink at all! I haven't had a drink for over 4 years. I don't miss it one bit! Even from 1 or 2 drinks I suffered terrible hangovers! I just decided I didn't need this anymore. My boys might occasionally have a beer or two but for the most part we don't drink!

I know that there are other wonderful sources of protein and calcium but I love yogurt and cheese and really if that's my only vice, I am good with that!


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## torndownunit

Lola said:


> I really can't cut out yogurt and cheese! I eat cheese maybe twice a week. Usually in an egg white omelet. I eat Source yogurt which is one of the healthier yogurts! I add seeds like pumpkin and sunflower seeds to my diet. I eat tofu, yogurt, egg whites with maybe a yolk thrown into the mix a couple of times a week. I eat probably 7 servings of veggies alone a day. I can't lie though, I do succumb to eating a bowl or two a week of Ms. Vickies Sea salt and malt vinegar chips a week. I have to try and give up these vegan gummi worms. Nothing but empty calories. I don't drink at all! I haven't had a drink for over 4 years. I don't miss it one bit! Even from 1 or 2 drinks I suffered terrible hangovers! I just decided I didn't need this anymore. My boys might occasionally have a beer or two but for the most part we don't drink!
> 
> I know that there are other wonderful sources of protein and calcium but I love yogurt and cheese and really if that's my only vice, I am good with that!


I only mention dairy because it legitimately causes ill effects for a lot of people. It's just not a weight issue. I had some serious health improvements after almost completely cutting it out. I say almost because I will still eat greek yogurt occasionally. I also reduced the amount of gluten I eat and I do feel better for it. I know people say it's a trend and blah blah blah. But my digestion improved a lot reducing it. So I don't preach gluten free, but if anyone asks for advice losing weight I tell them to at least try no dairy and no gluten for 3 weeks (moderate elimination diet) and see if it does anything for them.


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## skilsaw

I was shocked and a little disappointed in 2006 when I had to buy my first pants with a 40 inch waist.
I went from 200 lbs 20 years ago to 250 lbs ten years ago and have been stuck there ever since.
Yesterday I was 231 lbs and put on some expensive grey wool dress pants with a 38 inch waist that I saved from the good old days. Some day I may have to go looking for the old pants with the 36 inch waist.


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## WCGill

"Eat food, not too much, mostly plants." - Michael Pollan, "In Defense of Food"

http://www.kikim.com/xml/projects.php?projectId=88


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## Lola

blam said:


> Machines eliminate stabilizer muscles. Free weights have always given me a better work out. I leave the dips for arm day and do max reps. usually ~35, 25, then 10-15 reps.


Have you ever noticed your form when you do free weights? Your form has to be a lot more accurate! You can't get sloppy with free weights as much as you can machines because that leads to injuries! 

Some people at the gym lift heavier than they should because they have sloppy form. They think that lifting heavier will contribute to a better form. They lift fast and they swing the ways to let momentum help them. They cheat! It should be done smoothly on the negative and positive actions of the exercise being executed!


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## Milkman

Lola said:


> Have you ever noticed your form when you do free weights? Your form has to be a lot more accurate! You can't get sloppy with free weights as much as you can machines because that leads to injuries!
> 
> Some people at the gym lift heavier than they should because they have sloppy form. They think that lifting heavier will contribute to a better form. They lift fast and they swing the ways to let momentum help them. They cheat! It should be done smoothly on the negative and positive actions of the exercise being executed!


I see a lot of people doing exactly as you describe. Really your back should remain in a reasonably stable upright position when doing a front curl with a barbell.

I see people starting the bar moving with a push of their legs and then swinging the bar to get it up. Their upper body really lurches back and forth during this. There's very little actual isolation of the bicep happening and there's a risk of a back injury.

I like using a combination of apparatii and free weights. In some cases a machine can actually be better in my opinion because they allow you to really isolate the target muscle or muscle group.

I also use machines for safety in some cases. I work out alone (no spotter), so I have to consider that for things like bench press, leg press, even squats.


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## keto

Best investment I made in the past year was my power cage - can do bench and squats with a safety set up at the apropriate height in each case.

Still off the smokes, little over a month to 1 year. Still working out. Still not watching what I eat like I should lol - upper body starting to look like I actually lift, but still a decent spare tire gut and no real definition anywhere. Pretty stuck at 200 lbs, down from 205 but committed to 185 sometime later this year. No regrets, I'm stronger than ever in my life, and 15 lbs isn't a gigantic mountain to climb.


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## Milkman

Right on Kent. I've thought of , and still sometimes consider setting up a nice home gym. I can definitely see the advantages and illimination of some nusances.

I just worry that I would be distracted by the comforts of home.

The busier the gym gets the less convenient and enjoyable it becomes (for me at least) and the gym I use is very popular.

Oh well, once the new years resolution rush ends about......now, it should start to get a little quieter.

By the way, congrats on the smokes. Losing weight when you're kicking tobacco is double tough.


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## blam

keto said:


> Best investment I made in the past year was my power cage - can do bench and squats with a safety set up at the apropriate height in each case.
> 
> Still off the smokes, little over a month to 1 year. Still working out. Still not watching what I eat like I should lol - upper body starting to look like I actually lift, but still a decent spare tire gut and no real definition anywhere. Pretty stuck at 200 lbs, down from 205 but committed to 185 sometime later this year. No regrets, I'm stronger than ever in my life, and 15 lbs isn't a gigantic mountain to climb.


squat racks are amazing. gyms are pretty much useless without one.

congrats on staying smoke free!!!



Lola said:


> Have you ever noticed your form when you do free weights? Your form has to be a lot more accurate! You can't get sloppy with free weights as much as you can machines because that leads to injuries!
> 
> Some people at the gym lift heavier than they should because they have sloppy form. They think that lifting heavier will contribute to a better form. They lift fast and they swing the ways to let momentum help them. They cheat! It should be done smoothly on the negative and positive actions of the exercise being executed!


i'm very anal when it comes to form. having a bad back and other injuries i've always done my best to keep my form on point. but you are very right.... lots of meat heads at the gym throwing weights around willy-nilly. some of the worst culprits are the guys doing deadlifts, squats and curls!!


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## Clean Channel

Did a 26k run this morning! 
Despite facing a head wind most of the 13k home, it ended up being an easy and comfortable long run. 
Will bump it up to 28k next Monday...


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## skilsaw

Clean Channel said:


> Did a 26k run this morning!
> Despite facing a head wind most of the 13k home, it ended up being an easy and comfortable long run.
> Will bump it up to 28k next Monday...


 Sick! Now I have to go to the fridge for another beer. Also see if there are any Tostito Chips and sour cream left over from last night.


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## Clean Channel

I happened upon these characters while running last week...


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## Lola

I need to start lifting weights again! I am very lean but am losing a bit of muscle mass! I have noticed my calves are not as muscular as they once were! Lifting helps to maintain bone density especially as you get older! Diet and exercise go hand in hand! I haven't really done any weights in the last two years. Need to get back into it!


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## Clean Channel

Well, I ended up going for the 30km mark this week instead of next! Did over 31km on Monday, which is my longest run ever. Going to continue to stick to the low 30s every Monday for the next few weeks and hopefully adapt to that distance. Then I'll for sure be set for the Marathon in May.










Here's a pic I snapped today on my 12k run:


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## Electraglide

skilsaw said:


> I was shocked and a little disappointed in 2006 when I had to buy my first pants with a 40 inch waist.
> I went from 200 lbs 20 years ago to 250 lbs ten years ago and have been stuck there ever since.
> Yesterday I was 231 lbs and put on some expensive grey wool dress pants with a 38 inch waist that I saved from the good old days. Some day I may have to go looking for the old pants with the 36 inch waist.


2005 I took a 34" waist in Wrangler jeans. I bought a pair of dress pants for the wife's staff party....36" waist for them, I wore them once year. Last year I had to buy a larger size....40" waist. Now at 240 lbs I wear a 40" waist Wangler jeans. Still not smoking or drinking and the only real exercise I get is at work. My diet hasn't changed in the last 40 or so years except no beer.


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## Clean Channel

Another snowy run and more deer this morning.


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## Clean Channel

...and out for a 14k run this morning, saw more deer through the woods. This one was just off the trail, so was able to get a pretty close shot.


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## Clean Channel

Messy out there this morning! The wind was blowing hard and the snow was mixed with freezing rain and hail...


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## Lola

Congrats Clean Channel on your dedication! You are to be admired!


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## sulphur

Wow Tim, excellent!

Congrats to all in their endevours, I have to ax the cigarellos, ffs.


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## Lola

While it seems everyone here is trying to lose weight I need to gain 10 pounds! You say, boo hoo! Awwww poor Lola! lol Rough job trying to gain weight! lol My doctor told me that I need to gain some weight! As you get older you need to have some body fat on you! I was 117 lbs when I got married 30 years ago. I have been 120 lbs forever. My weight never varies! It doesn't matter how much I eat or what I eat! I can't sit still long enough to gain weight! My hubby thought I might have ADD but I don't! I am always up and doing something! I might sit three times a week and watch 3 programs on TV! Gold rush, Vinyl and X Files! Other than that I never watch TV! To top it off I have Hypothyroidism! I should be overweight and have some beef on me. I am an anomaly!


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## keto

No, Lola, it actually DOES matter how much you eat - physics won't be denied.

If you're not lactose intolerant, try to get through 2l of whole (****) milk a day for 2 weeks on top of your regular consumption. It can be shakes or smoothies or just glasses of milk. If you otherwise eat what you regularly eat, plus the milk, pretty much impossible not to gain.


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## Lola

I eat two 650 gram tubs of yogurt a day! I it eat out of the tub, in my cooking and instead of milk and cereal, I eat you yogurt and cereal! It's 2% in fat content! That alone is 1400 calories along with eating all day long! I think I eat every hour and 1/2! I eat calorie dense foods! I eat peanut butter and not just on bread or whatever. I eat by the spoonful along with trail mix which is high calories as well as all the good lipids! I probably consume anywhere from 2000 to 2500 calories a day! I can't eat anymore than that! I can't eat until I am stuffed because it induces an almost migraine headache! That's why I eat tiny meals all day long! I have a few health issues that my doctor is worried about and I have to go for some tests! My doctor asked me to write everything down that I consume daily for two weeks, which I did! He is really surprised about the weight issues I am having! I divided into protein, carbs and fat calories for him to see!


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## keto

Well, like I said, physics is physics. You're obviously burning off your calorie intake, and have to eat to surplus if you want to gain weight. If you can't, you won't. 1+1=2 and all that.

2000-2500 is not a huge caloric intake. If you said 4000 and not gaining weight, then I'd be more surprised and asking about your levels of physical activity, but not really at 2-2.5K.


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## Merlin

keto said:


> Well, like I said, physics is physics. You're obviously burning off your calorie intake, and have to eat to surplus if you want to gain weight. If you can't, you won't. 1+1=2 and all that.


Except when it's biochemistry.

Calories are a flawed way of measuring the potential energy in the food we consume.


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## Lola

Most people do not realize that the way calories are quantified is by simple burning in a lab device called a calorie or “Parr” bomb. It was designed to measure the amount of heat any given substance generates when it is lit on fire. This is fine for calculating how much wood it would take to heat a room, but it has absolutely no relevance to the bodily process that converts food to fuel. Although we say our bodies “burn” fuel, in truth we don’t light a match to our food or anything remotely similar. Before the food we eat can become fuel, it must be digested, absorbed, assimilated and metabolized. Unless all 4 of these things happen efficiently, food will not produce heat or energy. Food that goes out as waste generates nothing. Regardless of how it is measured, food only represents POTENTIAL energy for the body. Extracting that potential is the job of the body, and how it does that will depend on its overall condition.


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## skilsaw

Lola said:


> Although we say our bodies “burn” fuel, in truth we don’t light a match to our food or anything remotely similar.


I still think my girlfriend has a hot body, and as for "burning" fuel, she's smoke'n hot.


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## Clean Channel

Went out for a snowy, early morning 10k after the stormy night a couple days back. I was the first one out there, so the snow was mostly fresh, except for the criss-crossing tracks left by various deer and coyotes overnight. Had my Yaktrax on my shoes to help with traction.


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## stringer

I'm about 5'10" with a small frame. I peaked at around 225! At the end my weight was jumping around in 5 lb increments. Was starting to get sore feet after working 16 hour shifts, trouble tying my shoes sore back etc... I stopped drinking beer and drastically reduced my meal portion sizes, only eating until I wasn't hungry, not till I was stuffed or I had cleared my plate. I've never been much of an exerciser. I took myself down to 160. I was a thin 175 when I graduated and now I'm a "soft" 180. I'm back into loose 32's from tight 36's and can tie my shoes again without getting winded. No sore feet, feel pretty good these days. I think it was the beer that was doing me in. Switching to single malt may have saved my life!


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## Jim9guitars

I only got to about 40 lb's overweight before I started to panic. I'm fairly thin framed so this really showed and I felt terrible. I started with big changes in diet, the basic make your own healthy meals and stay away from the fast food joints. Next I got into exercising at home, first basic weight lifting routines and then I discovered cardio workout DVD's. These led to yoga DVD's, highly recommended. I didn't think yoga was something I would like but I had some nagging lower back pain and my Doc said it would help, it does. Now I do some kind of work out almost everyday, either yoga, cardio, weights or just going for a good 30 or 40 minute walk. I quit smoking many years ago and drink very moderate to light, sometimes going for several weeks without having a drink. I'm 61 years old and at my last check up my Doc said I had the heartbeat of a 25 year old. Not bad considering what I put my body through for about the first 40 years.


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## greco

Where is Milkman? This is his "signature" thread and I haven't seen him posting for awhile.

Milkman...if you reading this, please let us know that you are OK.


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## amagras

greco said:


> Where is Milkman? This is his "signature" thread and I haven't seen him posting for awhile.
> 
> Milkman...if you reading this, please let us know that you are OK.


IIRC he travels for work often.


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## Clean Channel

I ran a snowy 21.1km this morning to kick off my Friday. Got a nice pic of the snow falling over Lake Ontario.


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## keto

Well, 1 year today since I quit smoking. Still lifting weights, have slowed down a touch recently but still been doing lots of walking. Stuck for several months right around 200 lbs, I don't look that fat at 6' but do have a bit of a belly. Going to lower the food intake a bit over the next while, and been a week since I had my one true love, Pepsi in a can. Won't take me that long to drop 5 or 10, I hope.


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## markxander

Thought I'd jump in with a few things I've learned. I have a step up on a few of you guys because I'm still in my late 20s -- although I have a couple chronic injuries (plantar fasciitis and some elbow and shoulder issues from pitching). I've been overweight pretty much my whole life and topped out around New Years just a hair under 250 (I'm 5 foot 9). I've lost around 20-25 pounds twice in the past and slowly gained it back, but I know enough from those experiences that calorie counting absolutely works for me (I have a sneaking suspicion it works for everyone). I know it's flawed (that snack bar wasn't EXACTLY 125 kcal), but for someone who has issues with portion control it's really close enough to make a difference.

I sit in front of a computer all day (according to my FitBit I average around 7500 steps/day in the winter, although I play a lot of sports in the summer), so for me it really has to be a diet-first approach. My weight loss bible is The Hacker's Diet, written in 1991 by John Walker (https://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/), the guy who created AutoCAD. The biggest thing I took from him is to always calculate my weight as a moving average of the last ten days -- it's always really frustrating if you wake up one morning up .6 of a pound for no reason, so the moving average works by erasing the smaller movements and shows a better picture of where you're at. I also learned from John's book that I'll probably never be at a point where I can stop counting calories, regardless of if I get to my goal or not. So I'm trying to just think of it as something that I'll always do. He makes the argument that a watch alone doesn't stop you from being late all the time -- it just gives you the tools you need to be on time if you really want to be. Counting calories is the tool you use to maintain a healthy body weight.

I started counting calories again in mid-January and I'm down to 233 (lost 16 pounds), and more importantly from a 40" waist to a 36" waist. This is the lowest I've been since 2009, and I can't actually remember ever being lower than 225. My goal is 180, and I'm pretty confident that I'm well on my way.

Just one more thing to share -- I'm a fan of Bill Barnwell's writing about football, and he has a great article about his own weight loss (well, weight gain and then loss) experience that I found really inspiring. I've probably read it every week since I started losing again. The Easiest Way to Lose 125 Pounds is to Gain 175 Pounds:


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## Clean Channel

Another Friday morning 21.1km run. Weather-wise it was quite a difference from two weeks ago!


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## torndownunit

I took up running early last Summer, and was preparing to run my first 5k by September. I brutally tore my hamstring the week before. I have been working on rehabbing it all Winter and hope to be back running again when the trails clear. I can still work out with ver few limitations. My leg extending to stride still gives me a bit of pain though. It sucks, I was really enjoying running. I turn 40 this summer which makes me just old enough to know injuries sure as hell don't heal like they used to lol. I don't need the running to keep fit. I take boxing class, and workout and do yoga every day of the week. I just really enjoyed it.


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## markxander

I started running in 2012 or so and the peak of my interest in it was last winter. I was working my way up to a half-marathon that I'd hoped to do this summer when I developed plantar fasciitis. Enter 10 months of trying new kinds of shoes and getting orthotics, and now I can manage 4 to 5K again without any pain or discomfort. I'm hoping to pick it up again more this spring, but to be honest I'm pretty infatuated with rock climbing right now and spend 99% of my exercise time doing that instead.


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## Clean Channel

torndownunit said:


> I took up running early last Summer, and was preparing to run my first 5k by September. I brutally tore my hamstring the week before. I have been working on rehabbing it all Winter and hope to be back running again when the trails clear. I can still work out with ver few limitations. My leg extending to stride still gives me a bit of pain though. It sucks, I was really enjoying running. I turn 40 this summer which makes me just old enough to know injuries sure as hell don't heal like they used to lol. I don't need the running to keep fit. I take boxing class, and workout and do yoga every day of the week. I just really enjoyed it.


Wow, that's rough! Glad to hear you're finally feeling somewhat recovered. 

My wife is deep into yoga and has some pretty impressive skills. I'd like to start doing it along with her at some point, but it's just hard to find the time.


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## torndownunit

Clean Channel said:


> Wow, that's rough! Glad to hear you're finally feeling somewhat recovered.
> 
> My wife is deep into yoga and has some pretty impressive skills. I'd like to start doing it along with her at some point, but it's just hard to find the time.


I have never stopped working out since my 20's. I have bartered work with good personal trainers for a solid 8 years. My nutrition and exercise knowledge is pretty decent. If there is one thing I can recommend to people it's Yoga. I know people can get preachy about it, but there is a reason for it. It can make such a difference in how you look and feel. And it can really work wonders for you mentally. If there's one thing to find the time for, it's Yoga or even just adopting a stretching program at least once a day.


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## Clean Channel

Today I completed the Around the Bay 30km race in Hamilton; an event I've wanted to do for years.


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## Milkman

I'm still cranking away at the gym about five days a week.

In order to add a little cardio to the equation I bought a bike.

I hope to ride to work (about 6k each way with a couple of wicked hills) one or two days a week and do some trails on weekends.

I live a hundred yards or so from beautiful groomed trails along the Grand River.

Looking forward to it (once this crazy late winter snap leaves us).

It's nothing high end. I added:

1. kick stand
2. Speedo / Odo trip computer (wireless)
3. Rear luggage rack and panier bag
4. lock
5. Helmet
6. Water bottle

Tires are hybrid (street / trail)


Specialized Cross Trail.


----------



## Lola

This whole article puts a new spin on things!!

*PASS THE BUTTER: THE EXPERTS WERE ALL WRONG*
margaret wente
The Globe and Mail
Published Tuesday, Apr. 19, 2016 8:00AM EDT

When I was a kid, the milkman came right to our back door. He brought us bright glass bottles of rich whole milk and thick sweet cream. We drank a lot of milk. Nobody had heard of skim. On weekends my dad cooked up breakfasts of eggs fried in butter, piles of bacon, delicious German sausages. For dinner, we had big chunks of fatty meat every night.


When I was a kid, the milkman came right to our back door. He brought us bright glass bottles of rich whole milk and thick sweet cream. We drank a lot of milk. Nobody had heard of skim. On weekends my dad cooked up breakfasts of eggs fried in butter, piles of bacon, delicious German sausages. For dinner, we had big chunks of fatty meat every night.

That was in the 1950s. Nobody was fat, except for one lone girl at school who everybody picked on. Most kids ate like horses and were skinny as rakes.
Then the experts came along and declared that all that fat was killing us. Whole milk was banished from children’s diets so that they would not develop clogged arteries and heart disease in later life. To keep our cholesterol in check, we began to ration eggs and treat butter like a toxic substance. We gave up our juicy, marbled steaks and switched to pasta. Ever since the 1960s, the authorities have told us that a healthy diet is a low-fat diet.

The results were not what they had hoped. Obesity rates soared, but heart disease did not subside. And now, a mountain of new evidence says the experts were all wrong. One Harvard study found that people who had consumed the most dairy fat were far less likely to develop heart disease. Researchers at Oxford University discovered that the biggest consumers of saturated fat in Europe – the French – also have the healthiest hearts. Last year, a major review in The BMJ, a leading medical journal, found that “saturated fats are not associated” with mortality, heart disease, strokes or Type 2 diabetes. As Ian Leslie, writing in The Guardian, puts it, “The promotion of low-fat diets was a 40-year fad, with disastrous outcomes, conceived of, authorized, and policed by nutritionists.”

The modern history of nutrition science is fraught with controversy, flawed theory, faulty research, vested interests, suppression of evidence, and vicious battles between the old guard and the insurgents. They’re still fighting. But it’s clear that a lot of what your Food Guide says is flat-out wrong.

The biggest villain of modern diets isn’t fat. It’s sugar and carbohydrates.

As far back as 1972, a mild-mannered British nutrition scientist named John Yudkin challenged the conventional wisdom, arguing that sugar, not dietary fat, was what was making people fat and sick. His reasoning was in part grounded in history: Humans have been carnivores forever, but carbohydrates, and especially sugar, are very recent additions to the human diet.

The Yudkin theory made sense, and is undergoing a revival. But in the meantime, as Mr. Leslie writes, he and his work were brutally suppressed. By then the North American dietary establishment was firmly in the grip of the fat hypothesis, which had been developed by a forceful and ambitious American nutritionist named Ancel Keys. He had all the institutional power, and he used it to trash his rivals.

Dr. Keys, who died in 2004, also seems to have suppressed inconvenient evidence. In the late 1960s and early seventies, he and a research team conducted a massive investigation into the effects of diet on thousands of mental patients. One group was fed a “heart healthy” diet low in saturated fats; the other ate a more typical American diet. The special diet did indeed reduce blood cholesterol, what the researchers called a “favourable trend.” But the published results were incomplete. The full results were published for the first time last week in the BMJ, they tell quite a different story. Patients on the special diet, especially those over 64, had a higher mortality rate than those on the regular diet.

The Keys theory is on the way to being thoroughly debunked, not least because of the investigative work of journalist Nina Teicholz (author of _The Big Fat Surprise_, who is persona non grata among the nutrition establishment). Yet the establishment is still deeply embedded in the status quo. Reputations and careers are at stake; plenty of leading doctors have diet empires of their own.

What’s so devastating about this story, as Mr. Leslie points out, is the answer it supplies to one simple question: Who made us fat? And no, it wasn’t the usual villains – big-food interests, the sugar lobby – although they certainly played a role. It was the scientific authorities and the governments that believed them.

So _Vive la France_, and pass the butter. There’s no time to waste.


----------



## markxander

My update: 226.6lb this morning (started at 248.8 in mid-January). My post is on page 42, but I am strictly just counting calories. I do a bit of rock climbing and next month I'll be playing baseball a few days a week, but the exercise is all gravy. 

Been hovering around the 227-228 range since April 1, and this has been my first big stall-out. Sticking to the plan and thinking very very very long-term. Would love to be under 200 by the end of the summer, but we can't always get what we want. The last time I was even in the 220's was 2009, so I'm feeling pretty good.


----------



## Lola

In order to lose weight you calorie expenditure must always be greater than your calorie intake! Some people just don't understand that! Let's take carrots for example! If you go over your RDA then you will gain weight, even if it's only carrots your eating! I was a personal trainer for 15 years! The excuses people used for not sticking for the program that I outlined for them were ridiculous!

The more muscle mass one has the higher your metabolic rate or the way your body utilizes calories is! People who are typically sedentary have a lot less muscle mass and are prone to gaining weight a lot easier than people who get up and move!

If you stick to the healthy basics of food and only eat until your brain says, "I am not hungry anymore" then your chances of being overweight are reduced.

There has to be a balance in your eating habits! You have to eat clean! Sure, the odd treat once a week doesn't hurt! Exercise is paramount to a healthy lifestyle!

You can't diet! That's a setup for failure! You have to make a permanent change in your diet and exercise habits or your just doomed to fail.

One has to learn to say No and just keep walking the other way!

I practice what I preach! I have been almost the same weight as I was when I got married 30 years ago, give or take maybe 5 lbs!

Remember all calories are not created equally!


----------



## torndownunit

Lola said:


> In order to lose weight you calorie expenditure must always be greater than your calorie intake! Some people just don't understand that! Let's take carrots for example! If you go over your RDA then you will gain weight, even if it's only carrots your eating! I was a personal trainer for 15 years! The excuses people used for not sticking for the program that I outlined for them were ridiculous!
> 
> The more muscle mass one has the higher your metabolic rate or the way your body utilizes calories is! People who are typically sedentary have a lot less muscle mass and are prone to gaining weight a lot easier than people who get up and move!
> 
> If you stick to the healthy basics of food and only eat until your brain says, "I am not hungry anymore" then your chances of being overweight are reduced.
> 
> There has to be a balance in your eating habits! You have to eat clean! Sure, the odd treat once a week doesn't hurt! Exercise is paramount to a healthy lifestyle!
> 
> You can't diet! That's a setup for failure! You have to make a permanent change in your diet and exercise habits or your just doomed to fail.
> 
> One has to learn to say No and just keep walking the other way!
> 
> I practice what I preach! I have been almost the same weight as I was when I got married 30 years ago, give or take maybe 5 lbs!
> 
> Remember all calories are not created equally!


It's amazing the things people will do just to avoid the 2 things that work, diet and exercise. I am a member of several community groups on Facebook, and there are always people plugging wraps, expensive meal plans, or ridiculous herbal solutions and pills. And people constantly reply. It drives me insane.


----------



## Lola

torndownunit said:


> It's amazing the things people will do just to avoid the 2 things that work, diet and exercise. I am a member of several community groups on Facebook, and there are always people plugging wraps, expensive meal plans, or ridiculous herbal solutions and pills. And people constantly reply. It drives me insane.


What really pissed me off was this doctor on YouTube promoting his weight loss products! A doctor no less! What a hypocrite to the altruistic oath he has taken to being a medical practitioner! Obviously one who prays on the ignorant masses! His profit and your loss! This made me so angry!


----------



## Adcandour

I've decided to take the fat from my butt and inject it into my cheeks and lips, but when I turn 50.


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## butterknucket

adcandour said:


> I've decided to take the fat from my butt and inject it into my cheeks and lips, but when I turn 50.


Inject it into your boobs instead.


----------



## torndownunit

Lola said:


> What really pissed me off was this doctor on YouTube promoting his weight loss products! A doctor no less! What a hypocrite to the altruistic oath he has taken to being a medical practitioner! Obviously one who prays on the ignorant masses! His profit and your loss! This made me so angry!


Isogenix is the one that drives me insane. Buy a blender to make some smoothies, and take a damn fibre supplement. Basically the same thing except without the ludicrous price tag. Take some Milk Thistle and drink a ton of water if you want to 'detox'. I have never met a single person who kept weight off long term on Isogenix. But there solution to trying again? More Isogenix!


----------



## Adcandour

butterknucket said:


> Inject it into your boobs instead.


My wife's into saggy naturals. They gross me out, but it's all about what _she _wants.


----------



## butterknucket

adcandour said:


> My wife's into saggy naturals. They gross me out, but it's all about what _she _wants.


At least she's a realist.


----------



## Lola

But let's get back to the topic at hand! 

_You are what you eat!_


----------



## Guitar101

Lola said:


> But let's get back to the topic at hand!
> 
> _You are what you eat!_


Someone's got to say it Lola so does that mean your a vegetable?


----------



## Lola

Guitar101 said:


> Someone's got to say it Lola so does that mean your a vegetable?


Why yes, yes I think I am! A sweet pea! lol


----------



## Lola

My hubby and I used to travel the USA by vehicle. Can't fly, fear of! Anyhow we used to stop at the truck stops because they do have great food. It was really disgusting though to see truly obese people sit there with mounded plates of food and cram it in their mouth. I lost weight while I was down there. All I could manage to eat was a coffee and a cracker! It made me feel physically sick to watch this. We stopped going to truck stops! It wasn't quite as bad in other more upscale establishments. But to see people sitting their, morbidly obese stuffing their faces while their bodies flowed over the side of the chair they were sitting was disgusting. You would see whole families that were like this! Like father, like son etc!

The US has different demographics then Canada does hence the higher percentage of really obese people!



Think of all the diseases and health issues related to being overweight not to mention the expenditures and the massive burden on the health care system!!


----------



## Milkman

Hmmm,

I used to think being called a pussy was a bad thing.

Sorry, just couldn't resist.


----------



## Milkman

Lola said:


> My hubby and I used to travel the USA by vehicle. Can't fly, fear of! Anyhow we used to stop at the truck stops because they do have great food. It was really disgusting though to see truly obese people sit there with mounded plates of food and cram it in their mouth. I lost weight while I was down there. All I could manage to eat was a coffee and a cracker! It made me feel physically sick to watch this. We stopped going to truck stops! It wasn't quite as bad in other more upscale establishments. But to see people sitting their, morbidly obese stuffing their faces while their bodies flowed over the side of the chair they were sitting was disgusting. You would see whole families that were like this! Like father, like son etc!
> 
> The US has different demographics then Canada does hence the higher percentage of really obese people!
> 
> 
> 
> Think of all the diseases and health issues related to being overweight not to mention the expenditures and the massive burden on the health care system!!


Walk into a Cracker Barrel in Ohio sometime.

It's a strong incentive to put down the fork.


----------



## torndownunit

Lola said:


> My hubby and I used to travel the USA by vehicle. Can't fly, fear of! Anyhow we used to stop at the truck stops because they do have great food. It was really disgusting though to see truly obese people sit there with mounded plates of food and cram it in their mouth. I lost weight while I was down there. All I could manage to eat was a coffee and a cracker! It made me feel physically sick to watch this. We stopped going to truck stops! It wasn't quite as bad in other more upscale establishments. But to see people sitting their, morbidly obese stuffing their faces while their bodies flowed over the side of the chair they were sitting was disgusting. You would see whole families that were like this! Like father, like son etc!
> 
> The US has different demographics then Canada does hence the higher percentage of really obese people!
> 
> 
> 
> Think of all the diseases and health issues related to being overweight not to mention the expenditures and the massive burden on the health care system!!



I saw a guy at the Mandarin sitting on 2 chairs last time I was there, eating from 3 plates at once. I hate the Mandarin but my ex's family insisted on having every family function there. But being there reminded me of being on the road in the States for sure.


----------



## Clean Channel

Well, today I completed my first full marathon! My goal was to finish sub 4 hours, and I'm very happy to report that I did just that!

Also included is a pic I took on Friday morning while doing my last little run before the marathon.


----------



## greco

Clean Channel said:


> Well, today I completed my first full marathon! My goal was to finish sub 4 hours, and I'm very happy to report that I did just that!
> 
> Also included is a pic I took on Friday morning while doing my last little run before the marathon.


Congrats on your achievement!! ...and thanks for this beautiful pic.


----------



## Lola

Clean Channel said:


> Well, today I completed my first full marathon! My goal was to finish sub 4 hours, and I'm very happy to report that I did just that!
> 
> Also included is a pic I took on Friday morning while doing my last little run before the marathon.


What a monumental and epic moment in your life! Congratulations on your spirit and determination! You did it! Awesome! You never gave up! Love it!


----------



## Milkman

Clean Channel said:


> Well, today I completed my first full marathon! My goal was to finish sub 4 hours, and I'm very happy to report that I did just that!
> 
> Also included is a pic I took on Friday morning while doing my last little run before the marathon.



Awesome.

What an accomplishment!


----------



## Distortion

torndownunit said:


> I saw a guy at the Mandarin sitting on 2 chairs last time I was there, eating from 3 plates at once. I hate the Mandarin but my ex's family insisted on having every family function there. But being there reminded me of being on the road in the States for sure.


 Just wondering did he have a bucket between the chairs.


----------



## amagras

This thread has been around since way before I joined the forum and I still have nothing to report


----------



## greco

amagras said:


> This thread has been around since way before I joined the forum and I still have nothing to report


Does that mean that you are the same weight and as fit as when you joined the GC forum? If so, well done...that is over one year ago!


----------



## amagras

Yes and no. Yes, I'm the same weight; no, I'm not fit


----------



## Lola

My hubby has lost almost 40 lbs since January 12th! No more snacks like chips, ice cream allowed in the house! I still bring contraband into the house! I am not watching my weight so I respect his wishes to a certain degree! I have secret stashes all over the house! Places that he would never look in! What he does know won't hurt him! I can have my cake and eat too! lol
He has stepped up his game and walks 15 k a day now. He walks 10 k first thing in the morning which takes him about 65 minutes and then does 5 k worth of laps at the local mall! He got pissed off at me cuz I was always trying to speed the walk up! Now we walk at an extreme clip!

He's hoping to be in a size 36 pants by August! He's very determined and I know that he will hit his goal!


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## Milkman

Good for him Lola,

At very least he now knows what can be done with willpower and determination.

I hope he can sustain it. With your help that will be much easier.

Yesterday after driving home from Battle Creek, MI, I hit the gym and did a good back and core workout.

Tonight it's legs.

Still plugging away.


----------



## Clean Channel

First run since the marathon; still recovering, so kept a nice easy pace. The uneven terrain felt good on my legs. 

Snapped this nice pic of the sunrise in the forest!


----------



## Lola

Milkman said:


> Good for him Lola,
> 
> At very least he now knows what can be done with willpower and determination.
> 
> I hope he can sustain it. With your help that will be much easier.
> 
> Yesterday after driving home from Battle Creek, MI, I hit the gym and did a good back and core workout.
> 
> Tonight it's legs.
> 
> 
> Still plugging away.


When he went for bloodwork he was shocked at how crappy his numbers were! His blood sugars were off the charts! That's when the doctor said, "today is the beginning of your new life"! The doctor was very abrupt and to the point! You either change and start a new life or you die! The choice is yours!

The very next day my hubby started to clean up his act! He changed his diet totally and started walking. Within the very first year he lost 100 lbs! Because of the cancer that he was diagnosed with and the medications he was on made him extremely lethargic and he was sendentary he gained most of it back over the course of 5 years!

Milkman I am very eager to see what exercises compose your fitness regime?

I seriously need to get back into doing weights! I know I am losing muscle mass! 
I can practice guitar for hours on end but getting the gym is so difficult! When I had my gym setup in my basement it was easy peasy! We sold all my Weider free weights, a Weider universal, a stairmaster and the treadmill! We are left with a recumbent bike!


----------



## Milkman

What I do is really not unusual. Because I always work out alone there are some excercises I do on apparatii as opposed to free weights just for safety.

I do a four day rotation.

Day one: Legs and core

Leg press on an inclined apparatus: 3 X 10 @ 490lbs, 1 X 10 @ 580 lbs
Squats on hack squat apparatus: 3 X 10 @ 400 lbs, 1 X 10 @ 490 lbs
Calf raises on isolation apparatus: 3 X 10 @ 180 lbs, 1 X 10 @ 225 lbs
Leg extensions on apparatus: 3 X 10 @ 195 lbs, 1 X 10 @ 205 lbs
Ham Flexors on isolation apparatus: 4 X 10 (each leg)@ 40 lbs
Lunges carrying 45 pound plate 4 X 10
Sit ups on inclined bench: 3 X 20
Crunches on apparatus: 3 X 20 @ 195 lbs
Stretch

Day two: Chest

Chest press on cable cross: 4 X 10 @ 160 lbs (80lbs per side)
Flies on cable cross: 4 X 10 @ 100 lbs (50 lbs per side)
Flies on peckl fly apparatus: 4 X 10 @ 225 lbs
Chest press on horizontal press apparatus: 3 X 10 @ 140 lbs, 1 X 10 @ 160 lbs
Stretch

Day Three: Arms and core

Curls on preacher bench seated with 80 lb curl barbell: 4 X 10
Hammer Curls on preacher bench standing with dumbells: 3 X 10 @ 30 lbs, 1 X 10 @ 35 lbs
Tricep pull downs on cable apparatus: 4 X 10 @ 80 lbs
Seated Tricep press on apparatus: 4 X 10 @ 160 lbs
More curls on isolation apparatus: 4 X 10 @ 110 lbs
Forearm/wrist grip apparatus: 4 X 60 @ ???? can't remember, but maximum on apparatus
Shoulder raises on apparatus: 4 X 10 @ 110 lbs
Same core stuff as day one.

Stretch

Day four: Back

Bent over rows with dumbells: 3 X 10 @ 65 lbs (each arm), 1 X 10 @ 70 lbs
Shrugs on apparatus: 4 X 10 front facing, 4 X 10 rear facing @ 310 lbs
Seated rows on cable apparatus: 4 X 10 @ 110 lbs
Rear flies on peck fly apparatus: 4 X 10 @ 95 lbs
Stretch

Cardio is via bike

Sometimes I mix up the core exercises, but I do core basically every other day.

I hit the gym on average 5 or 6 days a week depending on travel.


----------



## Lola

Just some observations! On your leg day your not doing any isolation exercises for your hamstrings! You are doing a compound exercise when your doing you hack squats! Your hitting your gluts, quads and hamstrings! You are doing isolated exercises for the other muscles of your legs but not your hamstrings! Don't get me wrong, you have a very good routine going! What is the goal that you are trying to achieve? Muscle endurance, muscle size or strength and power? I ask this specific last question before I say anymore!


----------



## Winterheim

Lola said:


> Just some observations! On your leg day your not doing any isolation exercises for your hamstrings! You are doing a compound exercise when your doing you hack squats! Your hitting your gluts, quads and hamstrings! You are doing isolated exercises for the other muscles of your legs but not your hamstrings! Don't get me wrong, you have a very good routine going! What is the goal that you are trying to achieve? Muscle endurance, muscle size or strength and power? I ask this specific last question before I say anymore!


This post needs more exclamation marks.


----------



## Milkman

Lola said:


> Just some observations! On your leg day your not doing any isolation exercises for your hamstrings! You are doing a compound exercise when your doing you hack squats! Your hitting your gluts, quads and hamstrings! You are doing isolated exercises for the other muscles of your legs but not your hamstrings! Don't get me wrong, you have a very good routine going! What is the goal that you are trying to achieve? Muscle endurance, muscle size or strength and power? I ask this specific last question before I say anymore!


Sorry, I failed to add Ham flexors on an isolation apparatus. 4 X 10 (each leg) @ 40 lbs.

I'm not trying to achieve anything in particular. I just don't want to be overweight anymore and I like the way I feel and look now more than at any time in my life. Can't do much about my face or personality, but from the neck down I've never been in this kind of shape.....ever.

I guess my lack of a goal is consistent with my attitude that short terms goals in this context are misleading and less important than an overall paradigm shift.

My goal when I started ths was "From this day forward......"

That remains the case.


----------



## Lola

There a different shoulder exercises that would be more beneficial to your over all shoulder strength! Just a suggestion! Just to make your shoulder girdle stronger!


----------



## Milkman

I'm sure there are.

There are a thousand ways to exercise any part of your body.

My shoulders are not my weak point.

My chest is pitifully thin. It's the frame I was born with. It's not really feasible for me to add bulk at my age though so I'm not seeking to make any big improvements.

I did that in 2010.


----------



## jbealsmusic

I had a stint as a strength trainer and trained my wife up to being a national level powerlifter. Here is a video of her last meet before she took a break:





I trained with her 2011-2013, but basically quit lifting in 2013 due to a torn ACL. I just started back into it this year and though I'm not lifting a ton of weight these days, I still hit the gym with some friends to unwind from the daily grind.

My "routine" is pretty flexible. Currently, I do a 2-day split and hit the gym 3-4 days a week. All the main work is usually pretty heavy and done with barbells or dumbbells. Assistance work can be done with whatever desired gym apparatus.

UPPER BODY
3 sets, 4-6 reps: Horizontal Push
3 sets, 4-6 reps: Horizontal Pull
3 sets, 4-6 reps: Overhead Push
3 sets, 4-6 reps: Overhead Pull
A bunch of sets, 6-12 reps: Assistance work targeting weaknesses (rear/side delts, biceps, triceps)

LOWER BODY
3 sets, 4-6 reps: Heavy Push
3 sets, 4-6 reps: Heavy Pull
A bunch of sets, 6-12 reps: Assistance work targeting weaknesses (glutes/hams, quads, "core", calves)


----------



## torndownunit

Interesting reading people's routines. I am 39 and have been working out since I was 20 with very few breaks other than injury related stuff. I have tried pretty much everything including working with multiple trainers. I have been doing pretty much strictly kettle bells and body weight work for the last year, and honestly am in the best shape of my life at this age. I can't believe it when I look in the mirror after a workout in fact. The kettle bell stuff incorporates cardio as well, and is almost inline with the HIIT stuff I used to do. It's great to have a workout that produces such great results, but also isn't really dependent on any equipment other than some bells and a chin-up bar.

The first time I did a leg specific kettle bell routine I had stiffness like I have never had from ANY type of training lol. So if anyone looks into it, watch out for that.


----------



## Winterheim

I do a five day split of the PHAT program.

D1: Heavy lower
D2: Heavy upper
D3: Rest (no cardio, no everything)
D4: Leg dominant
D5: Back, rear delts, biceps
D6: Chest, front and side delts, triceps
D7: Active rest

*cardio and core on all days thrown in


----------



## jbealsmusic

Winterheim said:


> I do a five day split of the PHAT program.


Layne Norton FTW!


----------



## Milkman

torndownunit said:


> Interesting reading people's routines. I am 39 and have been working out since I was 20 with very few breaks other than injury related stuff. I have tried pretty much everything including working with multiple trainers. I have been doing pretty much strictly kettle bells and body weight work for the last year, and honestly am in the best shape of my life at this age. I can't believe it when I look in the mirror after a workout in fact. The kettle bell stuff incorporates cardio as well, and is almost inline with the HIIT stuff I used to do. It's great to have a workout that produces such great results, but also isn't really dependent on any equipment other than some bells and a chin-up bar.
> 
> The first time I did a leg specific kettle bell routine I had stiffness like I have never had from ANY type of training lol. So if anyone looks into it, watch out for that.


I've seen people working out with just kettles and their body weight. I have absolutely no doubt about how effective it can be.

I'm sure most of us realize that we could get in killer shape without a gym or a single piece of equipment.

The most important single factor (I know, thank you Captain Obvious) is the will to do it.


----------



## torndownunit

Milkman said:


> I've seen people working out with just kettles and their body weight. I have absolutely no doubt about how effective it can be.
> 
> I'm sure most of us realize that we could get in killer shape without a gym or a single piece of equipment.
> 
> The most important single factor (I know, thank you Captain Obvious) is the will to do it.


I still do go to a gym even though I don't need to. I find it motivating to go. There's also the social aspect too. A lot of people ask me about my workouts because, at least at my gym, the kettle bells generally collect dust. My gym also has a little isolated yoga studio that I use a ton. I just plain don't workout as hard when doing it from home.


----------



## Lola

Milkman said:


> I'm sure most of us realize that we could get in killer shape without a gym or a single piece of equipment.


One of my favorite shows is Drugs Inc.! I have watched some pretty muscular guys do their whole routine incorporating the wall and the bed in their routine. You must have to use your imagination!


----------



## jbealsmusic

torndownunit said:


> I still do go to a gym even though I don't need to. I find it motivating to go. There's also the social aspect too. A lot of people ask me about my workouts because, at least at my gym, the kettle bells generally collect dust. My gym also has a little isolated yoga studio that I use a ton. I just plain don't workout as hard when doing it from home.


I'm similar, only a little further. If I didn't have friends to train with, I probably wouldn't even bother. It's just not my thing. I go to the gym to hang out with friends and blow off steam by lifting heavy things. Muscle building and strength gains are just bonuses.


----------



## Clean Channel

And another running pic. Snapped this one this morning while out for my usual Friday morning 21k run.


----------



## Milkman

Awesome pic.

I could provide a few pics of the awesome scenery I see while working out but the ladies might object.

Tonight it's arms, a nice bottle of Bordeaux, some fine herb and my sweetheart.

Happy Friday!


----------



## Lola

Kudos to any of you that exercise! It takes determination and will power to get your ass up and off the couch!

As we age we have a tendency to lose muscle mass and bone density! A lot of people don't realize how even lifting light weights benefits your body!


----------



## Guitar101

I can find lot's to do around the farm that keeps me stronger than most men I know. Sure, I don't lift weights and stuff but try rolling an 800 lb bale of hay out to the horses once a week (no, I don't use my tractor). Now do it when your not feeling well. You guys "and Lola" got it made. If you don't feel like working out, you can take the day, or week off.


----------



## Lola

Guitar101 said:


> I can find lot's to do around the farm that keeps me stronger than most men I know. Sure, I don't lift weights and stuff but try rolling an 800 lb bale of hay out to the horses once a week (no, I don't use my tractor). Now do it when your not feeling well. You guys "and Lola" got it made. If you don't feel like working out, you can take the day, or week off.


I don't really have it made! I have my own issues to deal with! Hubby has been very sick for the last 5 years and the onus is on me to do a lot of the "manly" stuff around the house and cottage! Consequently I have learned a lot of stuff but now that I know how to do this stuff, it's expected of me!

P.S. Guitar 101. You have horses? I will work for free anytime! I absolutely adore animals of the equine kind! I used to in my younger years be a ranch hand at a horse farm! Muck the stalls, feed them, groom and do trail rides!

Owing and operating a farm is tough work! I saw it first hand! I know!


----------



## Guitar101

Lola said:


> Owing and operating a farm is tough work! I saw it first hand! I know!


It can be but I've downsized quite a bit and I'm now a semi-retired farmer/piano player/guitar player. Here's 2 of the horses.


----------



## torndownunit

Guitar101 said:


> I can find lot's to do around the farm that keeps me stronger than most men I know. Sure, I don't lift weights and stuff but try rolling an 800 lb bale of hay out to the horses once a week (no, I don't use my tractor). Now do it when your not feeling well. You guys "and Lola" got it made. If you don't feel like working out, you can take the day, or week off.


My first jobs as a teen were working on farms. It's ok, you can keep doing it lol. I have no desire to ever bail hay again.


----------



## Robert1950

I've had arthritis in my knees for 11 years. That's what you get when you jog for 20 years and are a heavy striker, not to mention the tendonitis in three different places. Currently I get by on 3 to 4 arthritis formula acetaminophen a day. So my activity dropped by 75% and my weight slowly inflated until it stabilized a few years ago - at a way too high level. Then there is the mild hypertension - medication for that. I thought about what would work as a mild to moderate cardiac/aerobic exercise for me. I am retired now and I do not have the "Don't Have The Time" excuse anymore. Bought a used recumbent exercise bike and it is great - feel nothing in the knees. Building up slowly. Use the old iPod and nice Sony Headphones. Did 'In-a-gadda-da-vida' the first day no problem. Today it was Green Grass and High Tides, Son of Mr. Green Genes, and East-West. This bike fits perfectly in the bedroom. Don't have to get up and get dressed and go out to a gym or a pool somewhere, especially in the winter. When my scalp is soaked and my face feels flushed, I know it is working. (I barely sweat in the pits at all - go figure)

Let you know the progress in 2 months. Might get some hand weights for the arms and shoulders.


----------



## torndownunit

Robert1950 said:


> I've had arthritis in my knees for 11 years. That's what you get when you jog for 20 years and are a heavy striker, not to mention the tendonitis in three different places. Currently I get by on 3 to 4 arthritis formula acetaminophen a day. So my activity dropped by 75% and my weight slowly inflated until it stabilized a few years ago - at a way too high level. Then there is the mild hypertension - medication for that. I thought about what would work as a mild to moderate cardiac/aerobic exercise for me. I am retired now and I do not have the "Don't Have The Time" excuse anymore. Bought a used recumbent exercise bike and it is great - feel nothing in the knees. Building up slowly. Use the old iPod and nice Sony Headphones. Did 'In-a-gadda-da-vida' the first day no problem. Today it was Green Grass and High Tides, Son of Mr. Green Genes, and East-West. This bike fits perfectly in the bedroom. Don't have to get up and get dressed and go out to a gym or a pool somewhere, especially in the winter. When my scalp is soaked and my face feels flushed, I know it is working. (I barely sweat in the pits at all - go figure)
> 
> Let you know the progress in 2 months. Might get some hand weights for the arms and shoulders.


Any interest in Yoga Robert? I am only 39 (40 this year) but I have had a brutal amount of injuries (knee surgery, torn rotator cuff, broken ribs). Yoga is the thing that keeps me functional. I wouldn't be able to do any of the other exercise stuff I do without it.


----------



## Robert1950

torndownunit said:


> Any interest in Yoga Robert? I am only 39 (40 this year) but I have had a brutal amount of injuries (knee surgery, torn rotator cuff, broken ribs). Yoga is the thing that keeps me functional. I wouldn't be able to do any of the other exercise stuff I do without it.


I am not the most flexible person in the world and at 66 (this month) I find* gentle* stretching before a ride works well enough. I had a friend who tried for years to get me to do Yoga and I was like, 'naw'. Fortunately the arthritis, which is not severe and tendonitis has not occurred again in many years, because I take precautions. Not like the shit you've been through. My daughter tore her rotator cuff twice, I know who bad that can be, she needed injections for 3 years.


----------



## torndownunit

Robert1950 said:


> I am not the most flexible person in the world and at 66 (this month) I find* gentle* stretching before a ride works well enough. I had a friend who tried for years to get me to do Yoga and I was like, 'naw'. Fortunately the arthritis, which is not severe and tendonitis has not occurred again in many years, because I take precautions. Not like the shit you've been through. My daughter tore her rotator cuff twice, I know who bad that can be, she needed injections for 3 years.


I am a yoga preacher I'll admit. But ya it's the reason I've never had a cortisone shot or take pain killers or anything else for the past injuries. My hope is that this will help me avoid having arthritis or more problems down the road. 

I do know some people using yoga to combat arthritis with good luck. The thing is there are various types of yoga. Many types are very easy on the body and don't get into any crazy poses at all.


----------



## Lola

Guitar 101 what kind of horses are they? They are just exquisite! Beautiful manes! I honestly will work for free just to pet the horses! I would gladly trade you places! I always wanted to move to a farm and have some Clydesdales! My hubby said a big fat NO! When I worked on a ranch I would just sit and gaze into the horses eyes and talk to them, groom them and shower them with all the love I could give them. They're are so intuitive! They know when you love them.


----------



## Guitar101

Lola said:


> Guitar 101 what kind of horses are they? They are just exquisite! Beautiful manes! I honestly will work for free just to pet the horses! I would gladly trade you places! I always wanted to move to a farm and have some Clydesdales! My hubby said a big fat NO! When I worked on a ranch I would just sit and gaze into the horses eyes and talk to them, groom them and shower them with all the love I could give them. They're are so intuitive! They know when you love them.


Their Canadians. The King of France donated 20 purebreds to Canada many years ago. They are dual purpose and can be used for working and pleasure. These ones have become more like pets. Here's another pic.
(same horses - they darken during the winter months)








Update: Both mares about 9 years old


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## Lola

OMG they're gorgeous! Boys, girls, boy and girl? How old are they?


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## Lola

Milkman said:


> I've seen people working out with just kettles and their body weight. I have absolutely no doubt about how effective it can be.
> 
> I'm sure most of us realize that we could get in killer shape without a gym or a single piece of equipment.
> 
> The most important single factor (I know, thank you Captain Obvious) is the will to do it.


You can even use rocks! I watched a video of how some strong men trained back in the 30's and they lifted rocks! Where there is a way there is always a will! Some people even use Javex bottles or whatever filled with sand! Anything will work as long as there is resistance!


----------



## jbealsmusic

Lola said:


> Anything will work as long as there is resistance!


Sort of... Anything will work as long as there is _'enough resistance to force adaption'_. The strong men of old didn't just lift rocks, they lifted the rocks that tested the limits of their strength. Same concept applies to strength training in the gym. That doesn't mean to go for one rep maxes on everything all the time. It means that every rep should take effort and every exercise should be pushed to the point of struggle (a few reps shy of failure; testing the limits of your strength.) Usually the goal is somewhere between 4 and 12 reps, but there are always exceptions and other ways to utilize lower and higher reps within a program.

To ensure progress is being made, every time you repeat an exercise (on a different day) you should try to do one of the following:
1) More weight than last time (same amount of reps/sets)
2) More reps than last time (same amount of weight/sets)
3) More sets than last time (same amount of weight/reps)
4) Takes less rest or do your reps slower than last time (same weight/reps/sets)

For example, if you do an exercise with 50lbs for 3 sets of 10 one day. Next time you do the same exercise, try:
1) 55lbs for 3 sets of 10.
2) 50lbs for 3 sets of 11, or even 2 sets of 10 and 1 set of 11.
3) 50lbs for 4 or 5 sets of 10.
4) 50lbs for 3 sets of 10, but take shorter breaks between sets and/or do slower and more controlled reps.

Sorry, blabbing again. I just love this subject and enjoy talking about it.


----------



## Lola

jbealsmusic said:


> Sort of... Anything will work as long as there is _'enough resistance to force adaption'_. The strong men of old didn't just lift rocks, they lifted the rocks that tested the limits of their strength. Same concept applies to strength training in the gym. That doesn't mean to go for one rep maxes on everything all the time. It means that every rep should take effort and every exercise should be pushed to the point of struggle (a few reps shy of failure; testing the limits of your strength.) Usually the goal is somewhere between 4 and 12 reps, but there are always exceptions and other ways to utilize lower and higher reps within a program.
> 
> To ensure progress is being made, every time you repeat an exercise (on a different day) you should try to do one of the following:
> 1) More weight than last time (same amount of reps/sets)
> 2) More reps than last time (same amount of weight/sets)
> 3) More sets than last time (same amount of weight/reps)
> 4) Takes less rest or do your reps slower than last time (same weight/reps/sets)
> 
> For example, if you do an exercise with 50lbs for 3 sets of 10 one day. Next time you do the same exercise, try:
> 1) 55lbs for 3 sets of 10.
> 2) 50lbs for 3 sets of 11, or even 2 sets of 10 and 1 set of 11.
> 3) 50lbs for 4 or 5 sets of 10.
> 4) 50lbs for 3 sets of 10, but take shorter breaks between sets and/or do slower and more controlled reps.
> 
> Sorry, blabbing again. I just love this subject and enjoy talking about it.


Sort of think I know what I am doing! Say hello to my latest prodigy! I used to be a professional personal trainer for 15 years. I still dabble in it.


----------



## jbealsmusic

Lola said:


> Sort of think I know what I am doing! Say hello to my latest prodigy! I used to be a professional personal trainer for 15 years. I still dabble in it.


Never said you didn't and never meant to imply it. Just finishing the thought and thinking out loud.

Dude looks good. What comp is that from?


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## Lola

From the London Nationals! His body fat was at 6.5%. He has his body fat percentages done in a dunk tank! A very accurate way of measurement! He still needs to build up his legs! They are developing really nicely though ! We are currently working a new program for his rear delts and lats!

We figured over the course of two years he ate 7000 lbs of Basa fish! High in protein, great in omega 3 and 6!


----------



## Lola

jbealsmusic said:


> Never said you didn't and never meant to imply it. Just finishing the thought and thinking out loud.
> 
> Dude looks good. What comp is that from?


I am truly sorry that I felt there was an implication in your reply! Just the crappy mood I am in, I guess! Work has a tendency of making one feel crappy and irritable at times. I guess when you tried to explain your thought process behind your increases in weights I just took the wrong way!


----------



## jbealsmusic

Lola said:


> From the London Nationals! His body fat was at 6.5%. He has his body fat percentages done in a dunk tank! A very accurate way of measurement! He still needs to build up his legs! They are developing really nicely though ! We are currently working a new program for his rear delts and lats!
> 
> We figured over the course of two years he ate 7000 lbs of Basa fish! High in protein, great in omega 3 and 6!


Cool. OPA? It takes some crazy dedication to get below 10% BF. Dude must have some mad discipline. Physique isn't really my thing, but I have tons of respect for the people who do it. Insane levels of dedication.



Lola said:


> I guess when you tried to explain your thought process behind your increases in weights I just took the wrong way!


No worries, I get it. Intent isn't always clear in text form. I was just trying to join the conversation and contribute to the strength training info in the thread. I too have pretty extensive training knowledge, mostly relating to athletic performance and strength-specific training.

You might be a great resource for me to pick your brain because I've never trained someone specifically for physique purposes until now.


----------



## Distortion

Better get that dude a implant for under the purple shorts.


----------



## torndownunit

jbealsmusic said:


> Sort of... Anything will work as long as there is _'enough resistance to force adaption'_. The strong men of old didn't just lift rocks, they lifted the rocks that tested the limits of their strength. Same concept applies to strength training in the gym. That doesn't mean to go for one rep maxes on everything all the time. It means that every rep should take effort and every exercise should be pushed to the point of struggle (a few reps shy of failure; testing the limits of your strength.) Usually the goal is somewhere between 4 and 12 reps, but there are always exceptions and other ways to utilize lower and higher reps within a program.
> 
> To ensure progress is being made, every time you repeat an exercise (on a different day) you should try to do one of the following:
> 1) More weight than last time (same amount of reps/sets)
> 2) More reps than last time (same amount of weight/sets)
> 3) More sets than last time (same amount of weight/reps)
> 4) Takes less rest or do your reps slower than last time (same weight/reps/sets)
> 
> For example, if you do an exercise with 50lbs for 3 sets of 10 one day. Next time you do the same exercise, try:
> 1) 55lbs for 3 sets of 10.
> 2) 50lbs for 3 sets of 11, or even 2 sets of 10 and 1 set of 11.
> 3) 50lbs for 4 or 5 sets of 10.
> 4) 50lbs for 3 sets of 10, but take shorter breaks between sets and/or do slower and more controlled reps.
> 
> Sorry, blabbing again. I just love this subject and enjoy talking about it.


I personally like to push myself doing more reps. I don't change weight much but up reps. Eventually I hit some point where I like to try a new type of training. I am a small dude who will never be huge. I just like to have a lot of endurance.


----------



## Lola

Distortion said:


> Better get that dude a implant for under the purple shorts.


lol Don't really think this dude needs one.


----------



## Milkman

Got back from North Carolina at supper time last night, and went straight to the gym for a good chest / core workout.

Vanity, thy name is man.

Yesterday when I returned the rental car, I was about to walk away to the termnal and I heard "Sir!"...... so I thought I had forgotten something in the car. I stopped and said "yes?"

The Hertz guy, a young black man, flexed his bicep, pointed at me and said "you look good" with a nod and a smile.

A small act of kindness to an old guy, which made me feel good for the rest of the day.


----------



## Lola

Mr. Milkman it takes perseverance, dedication and determination. You have it all my friend. Hold your head up high and walk proudly!


----------



## torndownunit

Well, after my talk earlier about turning 40 and being in the best shape of my life, I have a bulging disc in my lower back. It's been about 2 weeks, I haven't been on here during that time because sitting in a chair has been agony. I made some progress, but now today things are flared up again. It literally feels like I have a knife stuck in my right calf from referral pain, and that I have a 100 lb weight pulling down on my left hip. It's an absolute p.o. because it's the start of gold season, and it's pretty much my favourite activity. I am quickly learning that as you turn 40, you can't just work through injuries like you used to.

I am going to physio, and to my fantastic acupuncturist I have seen for years for my migraines who I trust as much as a doctor. I am trying not to take any pain pills, but there are some things I just can't do when things are really flared up with the combination of a pain pill and an anti-inflammatory. Most of my Yoga is off the table because I am not supposed to be doing things that involve a lot of twisting. 

Anyone had any similar issues and have any tips to share?


----------



## Clean Channel

Brutal, very sorry to hear that @torndownunit !

Not nearly as bad, but I've been a bit side lined the last couple of weeks as well. I had a small sprain in my right hamstring following the marathon earlier this month. Then I managed to pull my back doing house work over the weekend. 

Taking a rest this week and plan to be back at it next week. Really miss my running though, especially with the warm weather being here!


----------



## greco

@torndownunit ...I hope you recover from this episode of back pain quickly and with the least amount of pain and interruption to enjoying life as is reasonably possible. 

One suggestion I would make (as a retired physio) is to discuss with your physio the concept of returning to (all) activities you enjoy (e.g., golf). She/he might have several recommendations (e.g., altering your swing, the type of golf shoe to use/avoid, etc.)

Take Good Care ...and don't try and rush your recovery...even if it seems unbearably frustrating.


----------



## torndownunit

I


Clean Channel said:


> Brutal, very sorry to hear that @torndownunit !
> 
> Not nearly as bad, but I've been a bit side lined the last couple of weeks as well. I had a small sprain in my right hamstring following the marathon earlier this month. Then I managed to pull my back doing house work over the weekend.
> 
> Taking a rest this week and plan to be back at it next week. Really miss my running though, especially with the warm weather being here!


I brutally pulled my hamstring last summer. I actually heard it go. I didn't treat it properly and I think it threw everything else out of whack which lead to this back injury. Now since I am in spasms from the back, that hamstring is right as hell. So a dagger in one calve, and a hamstring thar feels completely clinched on the other. Awesome way to welcome summer.

Thanks Greco. This one scares me enough that I'll definitely be doing whatever they tell me to do.


----------



## Milkman

I don't have any direct experience with back problems and frankly that's as close to a miracle as I can imagine.

My boss however recently had a pretty severe pain in his lower back. It happened while we were traveling together and I can tell you the return flght on a CRJ was not exactly the most comfortable for him. He could barely walk.

He's doing physio several times a week and it's getting better.

The doctors couldn't do much.

I think his was a flare up of an old sports injury.


----------



## Hamstrung

torndownunit said:


> Well, after my talk earlier about turning 40 and being in the best shape of my life, I have a bulging disc in my lower back. It's been about 2 weeks, I haven't been on here during that time because sitting in a chair has been agony. I made some progress, but now today things are flared up again. It literally feels like I have a knife stuck in my right calf from referral pain, and that I have a 100 lb weight pulling down on my left hip. It's an absolute p.o. because it's the start of gold season, and it's pretty much my favourite activity. I am quickly learning that as you turn 40, you can't just work through injuries like you used to.
> 
> I am going to physio, and to my fantastic acupuncturist I have seen for years for my migraines who I trust as much as a doctor. I am trying not to take any pain pills, but there are some things I just can't do when things are really flared up with the combination of a pain pill and an anti-inflammatory. Most of my Yoga is off the table because I am not supposed to be doing things that involve a lot of twisting.
> 
> Anyone had any similar issues and have any tips to share?


Oh man, do I have way too much experience in this area! I sympathize with you brother! I've had 3 major episodes like you describe, the latest one last summer. I described the knife analogy as someone sticking my ass cheek with a 4" knife and lifting me up with it!
I'm still not 100%. The nerves down my legs still get tweeked causing the calf/heel thing you're experiencing. My handle on this forum was partly inspired by this condition. I liken the recovery time to that of breaking a major bone. Look to be in significant (albeit slowly dissipating) discomfort for 6 to 8 weeks.

I've had a history of disc issues and didn't take the advice to do the RIGHT kind of exercise and each episode was worse than the last. My advice is to follow your physio's advice. My physio is an adherent to the "McGill" approach to treating these conditions. Look up the "McGill Big Three" exercises (or ask your physio) once you've recovered enough to do them. They're surprisingly easy and require no equipment. As the doctor in the ER told me as I writhed in pain last year "It's a mechanical problem that requires a mechanical solution" as in drugs could only make me high enough to not notice (as much) the acute pain I was in in the initial stages, they're no cure or long term solution. Once you get past this first stage you'll need to be very mindful of how you exercise or do anything physical for that matter.

Best of luck man.


----------



## keto

Sigh, I'm such a dumbass. Took a break from weightlifting due to multiple nagging sore things. Unrelated, I then started smoking again and have to go thru quitting again here very soon - I made 13 months, longest since I was probably 12 without a smoke. No motivation to get back in the gym until I quit again.

On the + side, I'm down 15 lbs since Xmas, I had overeaten somewhat in the first year of lifting, I was fit and strong but had a paunch that's almost gone.


----------



## Milkman

Good luck with the smokes.

That can be a tough one for sure.

I'm not confident I could kick them at this stage in life were I a smoker.

I've heard it said that it can be as tough (some even say tougher) to quit than heroin.

That seems like a stretch but based on the number of people who start back up, maybe not.

Even so, lifting doesn't need to be on hold until you succeed in quitting smoking.


----------



## Milkman

Am I too self conscious or are some people not self conscious enough?

I've always had an aversion to walking around without a shirt on.

I'm not exactly Hugh Jackman but compared to some people I see walking around with their he-hooters flying proudly.......

It's similar in the men's change room. Guys with what looks like a penis but smaller will stand there and talk with me with that little thing sticking out.

We're talkng about guys who, if they were to walk into a wall with an erection, would break their nose.

Maybe something's broken in me, but I just can't walk around like that.


----------



## keto

"if they were to walk into a wall with an erection, would break their nose."

I find it handy to have a detachable....NSFW content follows


----------



## torndownunit

Milkman said:


> Am I too self conscious or are some people not self conscious enough?
> 
> I've always had an aversion to walking around without a shirt on.
> 
> I'm not exactly Hugh Jackman but compared to some people I see walking around with their he-hooters flying proudly.......
> 
> It's similar in the men's change room. Guys with what looks like a penis but smaller will stand there and talk with me with that little thing sticking out.
> 
> We're talkng about guys who, if they were to walk into a wall with an erection, would break their nose.
> 
> Maybe something's broken in me, but I just can't walk around like that.


I think some people reach a point where the just don't give a hell. I am never sure whether to envy them or be grossed out by them. I won't even get into the stuff I see in the change room at my gym. I try to not think about it.


----------



## Guitar101

Hey guys "Eye's Front" in the change rooms.


----------



## Milkman

There are some things I don't want or need to see.

Throw a towell on for everyone's sake.


----------



## torndownunit

Guitar101 said:


> Hey guys "Eye's Front" in the change rooms.


I've walked around the corner to the sink area to come face to face with a naked old dude with his leg propped up on the sink doing some kind of grooming to his undercarriage. It's the sneak attacks like that that get you.


----------



## Ti-Ron

A little update:
Had a meeting with my personnal trainer last friday. Since the gym was almost empty, we had some time to chat.

Been 3 years since I suscribed to the gym, started at 145 lbs (I'm 6'2'', yeah, I was skinny), 7% of body fat (was a big problem during the first months of training, had to change eating habit ALOT) and not alot of muscles mass.
I'm now at 178 lbs, 13% body fat (still easy to loose it, started to run outside 3-4 times a week and I can see myself melt...), gained around 25 lbs of muscles (BIG SURPRISE for me) and I feel much better.


----------



## Milkman

145 lbs at 6'2" is thin indeed.

Of course, it's also important to look a persons other dimensions. Some guys are wider in the shoulders than others and naturally someone wider can carry more weight without looking bigger.

178 lbs at your height is still quite lean, again depending on your body style.


----------



## torndownunit

Ti-Ron said:


> A little update:
> Had a meeting with my personnal trainer last friday. Since the gym was almost empty, we had some time to chat.
> 
> Been 3 years since I suscribed to the gym, started at 145 lbs (I'm 6'2'', yeah, I was skinny), 7% of body fat (was a big problem during the first months of training, had to change eating habit ALOT) and not alot of muscles mass.
> I'm now at 178 lbs, 13% body fat (still easy to loose it, started to run outside 3-4 times a week and I can see myself melt...), gained around 25 lbs of muscles (BIG SURPRISE for me) and I feel much better.


Wow I am 155 lbs at 5'7" and would still be considered thin looking by most people. It must feel fantastic to be carrying that extra weight. You must feel a lot more sturdy. Do you have a goal in mind?

I know losing weight is obviously hard. But GAINING it is damn hard as well. With the amount of activity I normally do (injured right now) I have to make a conscious effort to eat a ton just to even maintain. I've only managed to reach 160, my goal, once.


----------



## Ti-Ron

Milkman said:


> 145 lbs at 6'2" is thin indeed.
> 
> Of course, it's also important to look a persons other dimensions. Some guys are wider in the shoulders than others and naturally someone wider can carry more weight without looking bigger.
> 
> 178 lbs at your height is still quite lean, again depending on your body style.


I'm still thin, people still call me "asparagus" 
Mostly why I was surprised. I am way more in shape, stronger and have more endurance, but I don't feel or think I look like a sport guy. In fact, I was sure nothing really changed, but the impedance machine told me otherwise!


----------



## Ti-Ron

torndownunit said:


> Wow I am 155 lbs at 5'7" and would still be considered thin looking by most people. It must feel fantastic to be carrying that extra weight. You must feel a lot more sturdy. Do you have a goal in mind?
> 
> I know losing weight is obviously hard. But GAINING it is damn hard as well. With the amount of activity I normally do (injured right now) I have to make a conscious effort to eat a ton just to even maintain. I've only managed to reach 160, my goal, once.


When I'm playing hockey, I feel it, I can resist other people way easier. Imagine me against a guy with 220 lbs, now and then!  I'm still the first to get out of the way, but the fight is harder for the other guy and I have more chance to win with my skills if my body can protect me! 

I had some goals in mind when I started.
1) Wanted a better body posture 'cause I'm working in front a a computer and I naturally stand like a teenage boy with too long arms! 
2) Get rid of these chronical back pain I got from not standing in a proper way and not having enough muscles structure.
3) Wanted to run an half marathon without injuring like my first try. Did it, enjoy it in a breeze! 

What's next? Keeping the good habits, maybe run a full marathon and do a long trek in Machu Pichu, something like 8-10 days of treking!


----------



## torndownunit

An update on my back situation for anyone interested. I did everything my therapists told me to do. I have a very good acupuncturist and he was able to provide me with some serious relief. I have been walking 2.5 km the last 4 days, and I just got the go ahead to increase that and to do some light weight training (with obvious guidelines for types of exercises ). So I am pretty happy. Likely the only reason recovery moved along so well is the fact that I keep on such good shape in the first place. Yet another reason to do it.


----------



## Lola

I have to give a big gold star to the hubby. He started on his road back to health January 10, 2016. So far he has lost almost 50 pounds and has dropped from a XXXL to and XL. He has missed one day of walking his 10k because he wasn't feeling well. He looks so much better and he feels so much better. We are a snack free household now. Except I have a stash of chocolate in the downstairs freezer. He never gets anything from the freezer, I do. My stash is safe for now! The only munchies he has are unsalted Premium plus crackers. He has reduced his food intake and doesn't eat anything after 8 pm. Chicken, beans and vegetables only apples are his go to menu. We have one cheat night a month where you can eat anything you want. It was a real treat for him to have a hamburger with a bun. He threw caution to the wind lol
He tries to limit his intake of garbage carbs like bread and pasta. Most of his carb intake is derived from the veggies and the assorted beans he eats.

He still is walking 10k a day, 5 in the am and 5 in the pm. I usually go with him in the evening. It feels so good just to get out and walk the neighborhood looking at the surrounding beautiful neighborhood gardens, listening to the birds and watching the neighbors kids play street hockey. They're only 5 and 6 years old and it's quite hysterical at times to watch them play. It's amazing how a lot of people take the beauty that surrounds them for granted. I am guilty as well. He's hoping that he will fit into his jeans by August. We have a reunion to go to. I am so proud of him. He said he was going to do this and he's doing a great job at it. He is so determined.


----------



## sambonee

Lola said:


> I have to give a big gold star to the hubby.  He started on his road back to health January 10, 2016. So far he has lost almost 50 pounds and has dropped from a XXXL to and XL. He has missed one day of walking his 10k because he wasn't feeling well. He looks so much better and he feels so much better. We are a snack free household now. Except I have a stash of chocolate in the downstairs freezer. He never gets anything from the freezer, I do. My stash is safe for now! The only munchies he has are unsalted Premium plus crackers. He has reduced his food intake and doesn't eat anything after 8 pm. Chicken, beans and vegetables only apples are his go to menu. We have one cheat night a month where you can eat anything you want. It was a real treat for him to have a hamburger with a bun. He threw caution to the wind lol
> He tries to limit his intake of garbage carbs like bread and pasta. Most of his carb intake is derived from the veggies and the assorted beans he eats.
> 
> He still is walking 10k a day, 5 in the am and 5 in the pm. I usually go with him in the evening. It feels so good just to get out and walk the neighborhood looking at the surrounding beautiful neighborhood gardens, listening to the birds and watching the neighbors kids play street hockey. They're only 5 and 6 years old and it's quite hysterical at times to watch them play. It's amazing how a lot of people take the beauty that surrounds them for granted. I am guilty as well. He's hoping that he will fit into his jeans by August. We have a reunion to go to. I am so proud of him. He said he was going to do this and he's doing a great job at it. He is so determined.


That is very inspiring. I'm now having to stop sugar and cheese. My dad became diabetic st 65 and I'm 42. I'm basically going to start living as if I were diabetic. 

10k a day. That's really amazing. I've got to stop making excuses that I prefer music to exercise (although it's true).


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## Beano Addict

Went to my doctor recently for a physical. He had on his PC all the reports from past examinations. In 2010, I weighed 179. I was 228! Almost 50 pounds heavier! For the record, I'm 38 and am 5'11". 

To start, I basically stopped eating! No joke. I just stopped eating, period. As much as I could stand it, I'd refuse to eat. Eventually, I lost 20 pounds from doing that. I feel so much better, it's crazy. I have much more energy and willingness to do things, and my attitude has also improved overall. 

Unfortunately, I felt like I had plateaued so I now just ordered a stationary bike in the hopes I'll be able to jump-start my metabolism which had slowed down to a crawl from 2 decades of office work and sitting in chairs all day.

Though I do eat one meal a day, I've largely stopped eating desserts, drinking Coke, pigging out on bread and carbs-filled stuff. I'm now down to 207 and hope to get down to 190, my ultimate goal. Due to age and the fact that the body will invariably become stockier regardless of what I do, I doubt I'll ever be able to get back down to 180, but 190 would probably be loads better than my current weight. If I'm able to get down even further, why not? I'll start with trying to get below 200 and go from there. 

I'm sure it'll only get tougher the more I lose.


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## torndownunit

sambonee said:


> That is very inspiring. I'm now having to stop sugar and cheese. My dad became diabetic st 65 and I'm 42. I'm basically going to start living as if I were diabetic.
> 
> 10k a day. That's really amazing. I've got to stop making excuses that I prefer music to exercise (although it's true).


I always feel like cutting out dairy is an under-rated thing to try. I am not lactose intolerant, but feel so much better when I am not eating it. It's one of those things that I think it at least worth a try. I do eat full fat Greek yogurt because I like it as a probiotic source, but not much else (unless it's a pizza cheat day). Cutting out sugar is tough for a few weeks, but it get's a lot easier as time goes on.


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## Lola

Sugar can be a real tough one to cut loose from. I can go for weeks without it and then I get chocoholic withdrawal symptoms. Tonight I ate a handful of chocolate covered raisins. They were delish! When I crave something sweet I always try to resort to natural sugar in fruits. I love grapes. I think next time I get a craving for chocolate I will try grapes instead. I really think they might fit the bill.

I love dairy. Yogurt, cheese and cottage cheese are foods that I really love. I am not giving this up anytime soon.


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## torndownunit

Lola said:


> Sugar can be a real tough one to cut loose from. I can go for weeks without it and then I get chocoholic withdrawal symptoms. Tonight I ate a handful of chocolate covered raisins. They were delish! When I crave something sweet I always try to resort to natural sugar in fruits. I love grapes. I think next time I get a craving for chocolate I will try grapes instead. I really think they might fit the bill.
> 
> I love dairy. Yogurt, cheese and cottage cheese are foods that I really love. I am not giving this up anytime soon.


Just to post why I cut out dairy, I personally feel much less inflammation in my body when I don't eat it. The quality of dairy could be an issue though as well. I can't really afford to be buying high end cheeses.


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## Lola

I don't buy artisanal cheeses either. Black Diamond is my go to cheese and I only buy it on sale. I buy 3 or 4 bricks and freeze them until I need to open one!


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## Steadfastly

I cut out about 90% of my carbs and cut back big time on things with added sugar and some natural fruit juices and lost four pounds in the last two weeks. My goal is 10 pounds by June 23rd.


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## Guitar101

Alas, my wife bought me a pair of shorts today so I asked her "Did you get the stretchy ones? "No", she says "I got you a size 40" . . . CRAP


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## Lola

Well, I really needed a sugar fix tonight! Running around work like a chicken with my head cut off. I went to one of our local supermarket and bought some grapes. It fixed my sugar cravings right up. The crunch of the grape was so satisfying and then a rush of natural sugar. I don't hardly ever drink juice. We never have it in the house anymore. I would rather eat fruit instead of drinking juice. The only juice we have in the house is V8 cocktail juice. 

Do any of you take vitamin and mineral supplements?


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## vadsy

If by vitamins and supplements you mean chicken wings and pints of draft, then yes,... yes I do take those. I notice my outlook on life changes for the better the more I take in a single sitting. I am fitness.


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## Milkman

I don't take vitamins but I probably should.

I still have a relatively poor diet in terms of vegetables.

For some reason any time I've started taking them, I've lost interest and let them run out.


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## Steadfastly

Lola said:


> Well, I really needed a sugar fix tonight! Running around work like a chicken with my head cut off. I went to one of our local supermarket and bought some grapes. It fixed my sugar cravings right up. The crunch of the grape was so satisfying and then a rush of natural sugar. I don't hardly ever drink juice. We never have it in the house anymore. I would rather eat fruit instead of drinking juice. The only juice we have in the house is V8 cocktail juice.
> 
> Do any of you take vitamin and mineral supplements?


Yes, a multi vitamin and some supplements. Getting rid of the fruit juices in your home was a smart idea. I love V8 but it gives me heartburn so I don't buy it anymore which is too bad for me. I look at it longingly as I pass it on the grocery shelves.


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## Merlin

I supplement D3, K2 and C+zinc. K2 used to be readily available in grass fed butter, but it's lacking in much of the dairy available these days.


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## Lola

I to take a multi vitamin, B12, B compound and vitamin D. My doctor told me that he prefer if I got a natural source of calcium which is more easily absorbed in your body then taking supplements. I eat so much yogurt daily and cheese! That an vegetables are my diet. I get my protein source from edamame beans and tofu! My diet is pretty clean with the exception of the occasional bag of Ms Vickies Malt vinegar chips. I used eat a lot of chocolate but not so much anymore. 

I walk a lot but I really need to get back to the weights. If you don't use it, you lose it! Muscles start to atrophy with age!


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## Electraglide

vadsy said:


> If by vitamins and supplements you mean chicken wings and pints of draft, then yes,... yes I do take those. I notice my outlook on life changes for the better the more I take in a single sitting. I am fitness.


I used to mix my juice with Tequila. Lick the salt, do the shot, suck the lime.....or is it suck the lime, lick the shot, do the salt. Hell, take the top off the bottle and pass the wings.


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## Milkman

If alcohol is a crutch, tequila is a wheelchair.

I think many of us have a tequila story (what we can remember of it).

I visit Guadalajara periodically (the origin of tequila) and find the process interesting, but I'll pass.

I'll take the wings though.


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## Lola

My Tequila days are long behind me! Tequila hangovers are simply the worst ever!

I haven't had a drink in 5 years. I couldn't imbibe anymore because of certain medications that I take. I don't miss it one bit. I still have my cookies!


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## Milkman

Lola said:


> My Tequila days are long behind me! Tequila hangovers are simply the worst ever!
> 
> I haven't had a drink in 5 years. I couldn't imbibe anymore because of certain medications that I take. I don't miss it one bit. I still have my cookies!


I lost my cookies the last time I went on a tequila bender.

Never did find them.


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## bluebayou

Have a couple of teeth get infected at the same time!! Days for the antibiotics to start killing the infection and as a bonus you get a couple of root canals. And as another bonus you get no sleep until the infections start to get beat up by the antibiotics!!


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## Milkman

tequila is worse.


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## Guitar101

Milkman said:


> I lost my cookies the last time I went on a tequila bender.


Do you mean you threw up. Yuk


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## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> tequila is worse.


That's debatable. If I still drank we could sit back and have a few drinks as we debated it. Take the top off and pass the bottle. Mixed in with Double Jacks. For a long weekend. I'd still take the days after over a couple of root canals and an extraction or two. All at the same time.


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## Electraglide

Lola said:


> My Tequila days are long behind me! Tequila hangovers are simply the worst ever!
> 
> I haven't had a drink in 5 years. I couldn't imbibe anymore because of certain medications that I take. I don't miss it one bit. I still have my cookies!


There's a lot worse hangovers than Tequila.


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## Milkman

Electraglide said:


> There's a lot worse hangovers than Tequila.


If so, I have never had one.


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## torndownunit

Milkman said:


> I don't take vitamins but I probably should.
> 
> I still have a relatively poor diet in terms of vegetables.
> 
> For some reason any time I've started taking them, I've lost interest and let them run out.


It was an expensive appliance but my Blendtec blender was one of my best purchases. I have problems with my vegetable intake as well, and making smoothies and soups with it helps a ton. I have had it for about 5 years at this point, and used it over 1500 times (it has a counter on it).

I drink some gross smoothies, but it's strictly for health reasons. Beets, collard greens, kale, fruit, yogurt... pretty much the kitchen sink. I try to put the things I don't like eating, but that are really healthy, into the smoothie to make sure I eat them.

I don't take a lot of supplements, except for ones related to my migraines. ZMA (Zinc, B6, Magnesium) has been a life changing supplement for me though.


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## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> If so, I have never had one.


I have. Mixing cheap Rye and Calona Royal Red comes to mind.


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## Milkman

I guess we all have our vices.

Mine was never booze. Not knocking it. I just never dug the buzz. I actually drink more now than I did as young man. I may drink one or two bottles of red wine a month, maybe double that over the summer, but that's about it.

My tequila hangover was bad.


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## keto

Milkman said:


> If so, I have never had one.


Get blasted on Champage some time. Like, not tipsy, not somewhat loaded. Blasted. You will want to commit hari kari the next day.


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## Milkman

keto said:


> Get blasted on Champage some time. Like, not tipsy, not somewhat loaded. Blasted. You will want to commit hari kari the next day.


I do a bottle of Moet and Chandon every NYE and for special occasions.

I guess I'll have to take your word on getting blasted. I catch a nce buzz off a bottle though. The missus sticks to her chardonnay so I polish the whole thing off.

That's enough.


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