# There is no fool like....CONTINUED January 2017



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

*...an old fool!*

I bought this MIJ Yamaha FG 110 last night for $40.00.

It will be my winter project and I will learn a lot. Especially, I will learn not to buy a guitar like this in future...LOL

I will have many questions to forum members as to what I should do to try and bring this guitar back to life...if that is possible.

I also am very fortunate to have friends (who are also GC forum members) to advise me.

Serial number is 679945 ...So I imagine it might have been made on September 9, 1967.

It was very dirty and is only slightly less dirty now after an more than an hour of rubbing.


















The "B" string tuning is not original...but it works.









These bridge pins are my biggest concern...they seem to be very small in diameter but don't fit all the way into the bridge. I wonder if the bridge was replaced? I'll have to look at some pics of an original in pristine condition. 


Obviously, I will be getting new bridge pins.




















The nut ..in all of its glory.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Very, VERY cool project Dave! I couldn't have pulled the money out of my pocket fast enough on that! Looking forward to a resto thread if you will indulge us.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Here is one that is in fabulous condition. 

At least the bridge looks the same....now to try and find bridge pins!!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Scotty said:


> Very, VERY cool project Dave! I couldn't have pulled the money out of my pocket fast enough on that! Looking forward to a resto thread if you will indulge us.


I have never really "resto'ed" a guitar before.

I will post my progress.
So far just cleaning and cleaning.....and wondering.

This had me worried when I first saw it...but it seems more solid than it looks.













No problems with buzzing on the upper frets!

That is a huge relief!! .....Pun is intended


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Folkway?


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## Taylor (Oct 31, 2014)

Very cool! Just restored a (less-collectable but still pretty decent) Yamaha FD01 last week. Might have some black bridge pins floating around, just PM me if you want them.

Update: I've got one set of black and one set of off-white/ivory, and I'll be in your general area until the weekend.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I think that's a great purchase Dave. You did well.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I am really looking forward to seeing the "after" pictures. I wonder where the guitar was to get so dirty.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Scotty said:


> Folkway?


Good possibility.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

That's a steal at $40! Shouldn't take too much to get it playable.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Taylor said:


> Very cool! Just restored a (less-collectable but still pretty decent) Yamaha FD01 last week. Might have some black bridge pins floating around, just PM me if you want them.
> 
> Update: I've got one set of black and one set of off-white/ivory.


Thanks very much for this offer. 

Will I need to send you the diameter of the top of the hole in the bridge?
I assume the hole is slightly tapered. The pins that were in the guitar seem very "thin" to me but still don't "seat" well at all ...as you can see in the pic. 
From the base of the "ball" of the pin to the top of the bridge was about 1/4 inch.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Hamstrung said:


> That's a steal at $40! Shouldn't take too much to get it playable.


I sincerely hope you are right about that, as I'm beginning to have some doubts.
I'm looking forward to you having a look at it sometime.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> I am really looking forward to seeing the "after" pictures. I wonder where the guitar was to get so dirty.


If it was made in 1967....a lot of dirt can collect in almost 49 years!
There is a fair amount of white paint "splatter" on it...that is annoying and tough to get off.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2016)

The way you described this in another thread, I was expecting garbage.
This, my friend, is in fantastic shape for what you payed. Congrats!
Nippon Gakki too.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

6 new pegs and 6 new strings....should be good to go...
Congrats on a nice score Dave....looking forward to playing it.
G.


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## albert (Apr 15, 2009)

That is a great find. It should be a lot of fun restoring it. If it were me I would just clean it up and get it playable again. It has a lot of character otherwise. Nice!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

GTmaker said:


> 6 new pegs and 6 new strings....should be good to go...


Optimist.

You can drive a truck under the action at the 12th fret!!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

albert said:


> That is a great find. It should be a lot of fun restoring it. If it were me I would just clean it up and get it playable again. It has a lot of character otherwise. Nice!


That is basically my intention.


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## Taylor (Oct 31, 2014)

greco said:


> Thanks very much for this offer.
> 
> Will I need to send you the diameter of the top of the hole in the bridge?
> I assume the hole is slightly tapered. The pins that were in the guitar seem very "thin" to me but still don't "seat" well at all ...as you can see in the pic.
> ...


I'd wager that either A) the holes for the bridge pins have swollen tight with time and variable humidity, or B) the ball ends of the strings are poorly seated against the bridge plate, preventing the pins from being properly inserted. Either way, let me know, and I can toss some bridge pins in your mailbox on the way through town tomorrow.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Taylor said:


> I'd wager that either A) the holes for the bridge pins have swollen tight with time and variable humidity, or B) the ball ends of the strings are poorly seated against the bridge plate, preventing the pins from being properly inserted. Either way, let me know, and I can toss some bridge pins in your mailbox on the way through town tomorrow.


Maybe you are right about possibility "A". 
The ball ends of the strings seemed to be seated OK when I pulled the pins. 

That would be great...If you don't mind. 

I have a friend coming for lunch tomorrow but would be free to have a coffee with you if it is convenient (depending on when you are passing through Kitchener) later in the day.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2016)

greco said:


> You can drive a truck under the action at the 12th fret!!


Nothing to worry about Dave.
I don't think I've ever seen you that high up the fretboard. lol.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Congrats Dave, that's a great deal on a red label Yamaha!

Have you tried the truss rod yet?
Does it need hydration, or how's that scene?

I look forward to your progress.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

sulphur said:


> Congrats Dave, that's a great deal on a red label Yamaha!
> 
> Have you tried the truss rod yet?
> Does it need hydration, or how's that scene?
> ...


The hydration appears OK...any suggestions as to the best way to judge that?
No fret end sprout/issues for sure.

I haven't tried the truss rod yet.

IIRC, these Yamaha's use a Popeye "pipe" wrench...but I'm hoping a nut driver will work.
I am also hoping it actually CAN be adjusted.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

laristotle said:


> Nothing to worry about Dave.
> I don't think I've ever seen you that high up the fretboard. lol.


Jest yesterday, I went all the way up to the 4th fret


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Hmmm, first glance at the pics indicates that there "might" be a problem with the high E bridge pin. 

That's about all the help I can give you on acoustics, LOL

I'll be following this with interest and will hopefully learn something along the way.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

davetcan said:


> Hmmm, first glance at the pics indicates that there "might" be a problem with the high E bridge pin.
> 
> That's about all the help I can give you on acoustics, LOL
> 
> I'll be following this with interest and will hopefully learn something along the way.


Good catch !! ...Nobody else mentioned that so far. (j/k)

Cheers

Dave


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

If you haven't got the broken bridge pin out yet, take a very small bit and drill the center of it, then take a small screw and turn it in a few times and try to extract it. If that doesn't work, you may need to keep using larger and larger bits until you remove all of it. The dust will settle inside the body.

As for the diameter of the pins, they are tapered so fitting should not be a problem.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> If you haven't got the broken bridge pin out yet, take a very small bit and drill the center of it, then take a small screw and turn it in a few times and try to extract it. If that doesn't work, you may need to keep using larger and larger bits until you remove all of it. The dust will settle inside the body.
> 
> As for the diameter of the pins, they are tapered so fitting should not be a problem.


Thanks for the suggestions. The broken pin actually came out very easily.

However, stay tuned for the *attempt* to adjust the truss rod!!


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Steadfastly said:


> If you haven't got the broken bridge pin out yet, take a very small bit and drill the center of it, then take a small screw and turn it in a few times and try to extract it. If that doesn't work, you may need to keep using larger and larger bits until you remove all of it.


I've pressed them out from the inside before - if they need to be extracted, I'd avoid the "reverse screw" type and use the slim taper, 4 flute type because they don't expand the material the same way - just a thought as I haven't tried them on anything but steel 



greco said:


> Thanks for the suggestions. The broken pin actually came out very easily.
> 
> However, stay tuned for the *attempt* to adjust the truss rod!!


Don't do what I did...I made a wall hanger in an instant


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

laristotle said:


> Nothing to worry about Dave.
> I don't think I've ever seen you that high up the fretboard. lol.


I want to like this twice....awesome banter


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

greco said:


> Jest yesterday, I went all the way up to the 4th fret


Bm doesn't count


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

davetcan said:


> Bm doesn't count


I threw one of these in on the 4th fret..


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

greco said:


> I threw one of these in on the 4th fret..


Damn, you've obviously got more fingers than I do .......


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2016)

greco said:


> .. stay tuned for the *attempt* to adjust the truss rod!!


A word of caution. Put a drop of penetrating oil on it first.
When you do turn the wrench. Carefully loosen it first (just
a bit) to make sure the nut turns. I once snapped one by trying
to tighten a seized nut.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Someone tried a truss rod adjustment with a screw driver???? (NOT ME)
Plan: Gently reshape it and try a nut driver...after laristotle's suggestion of using penetrating oil first










Look what I found.......
If you can't find a ferrule...get creative!











Notice anything interesting?









Many thanks to GC member Taylor.... I have new bridge pins!! 

The new bridge pins won't go any deeper into the bridge than the old ones. 
As advised by Taylor, I am going to reduce the diameter of the pins ...about 1/64 th of an inch or so is all that is needed.










Ye olde precision bridge pin diameter reduction system.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

GO DAVE

a solder ferrule is self lubricating


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2016)

That's been macgyvered over the years. lol.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

laristotle said:


> That's been macgyvered over the years. lol.


The more I tear it apart, the more I am beginning to think that it was actually owned by the one and only Mr. MacGyver himself.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

I can believe this thread has escaped my attention until now. Congratulations Dave, this guitar is beautiful and looks like you are getting her back to its original shine, or maybe even better because time is good for guitars. It looks like you will have to bring it to Ottawa some day!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk


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## ga20t (Jul 22, 2010)

I've fixed up a few of old FGs, latest being a 180 I intend to keep.

It is normal re the thin tapered pins.

Excessively high action on these, unfortunately, is often due to either the neck requiring a reset (which can prove difficult given the commonly epoxied joints used during these production years), the body bellying behind the bridge (Thompson Belly reducer $$ or JDL Bridge Doctor $ could help), or some combination of the two. A last ditch might be to file down and slot the bridge, but there's only so much room available there.

My last required a combination of heating/clamping of the bridge belly (Thompson style), filing & slotting the bridge, and re-fretting to gain that extra mm. Haven't tried steaming off one of these necks myself, but I'm looking for a particularly cheap & bad example first so I can give it a go and see what the fuss is all about. Some folks have run a razor saw up where the neck heel meets the body and then screwed/bolted the heel back in place once properly adjusted for a better angle. I'd try resetting before I went that route, but that's just my preference.

Good luck and have fun with it.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@ga20t ...thanks for the long post and very helpful info.

I intend to put it back together and string it up. I might try a bit of a truss rod adjust but I feel that approach will likely be somewhat in vain and have no high hopes. At least the truss rod adjustment nut can be easily moved. 

I don't think I will personally do anything further by myself. I spoke to a local luthier briefly today and was informed that the "sawing through the heel" approach is about $75.00. He has not seen the guitar.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

sometimes Dave, being foolish by spending 40 dollars and having a bit of fun isn't all that bad.
Dropping a lot more cash into something that will never amount to anything but what it really is
can turn a foolish thing into something else.

G.


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2016)

I did the 'heel saw' approach on a old acoustic before.
It was a flush mount with dowel pins though. That made
it easy. The FG is dovetailed. So .. there's quite a bit of 
wood to saw through. Here's the steaming method.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

laristotle said:


> I did the 'heel saw' approach on a old acoustic before.
> It was a flush mount with dowel pins though. That made
> it easy. The FG is dovetailed. So .. there's quite a bit of
> wood to saw through. Here's the steaming method.


I am amazed at the slop in that joint. I always thought that a dovetail joint would be accurate and snug before gluing.
Is this example a hide glue joint? Can epoxy be steamed?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Scotty said:


> Can epoxy be steamed?


I asked that question yesterday. The answer was that epoxy would "soften" somewhat with the use of heat. We didn't discuss it further.



GTmaker said:


> sometimes Dave, being foolish by spending 40 dollars and having a bit of fun isn't all that bad.
> Dropping a lot more cash into something that will never amount to anything but what it really is can turn a foolish thing into something else. G.


I agree with you.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I think this is as far as I'm going with this guitar.

Possibly some more fretboard cleaning and fret polishing in the future under the guidance of my friend and GC member "*Hamstrung"*.


Cleaned it up (inside and out)
New bridge pins reduced in diameter to the proper size...Thanks again to GC member *"Taylor"*
Truss rod nut is moving freely and hopefully has some potential for future adjustment of the neck. I'm not going to try that.
There is some relief on the neck at present.
The action is dismal.
New ultra light gauge strings.
Intonation is better than I expected.
In addition, it actually plays and sounds better than I expected.
 
Thanks very much for all of the support and interest from everyone on this thread.









__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2016)

I'll say it again. 
For it's age and what you paid/invested,
it's a beaut!

I'll help/show you how to adjust the truss the next time I visit. If you wish.
Do you still have your other FG, Trigger? Do a side by side pic(?).


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

Great job!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Wow! I would not have recognized it as the same guitar. You have done wonders with it!


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> Wow! I would not have recognized it as the same guitar. You have done wonders with it!


This reflects my thoughts!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

laristotle said:


> I'll say it again.
> For it's age and what you paid/invested,
> it's a beaut!
> 
> ...





starjag said:


> Great job!





Steadfastly said:


> Wow! I would not have recognized it as the same guitar. You have done wonders with it!


Thanks everyone.

I'll try and get both guitars in a side-by-side pic soon.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

as requested by laristotle:

top: 1967 (first year of production AFAIK) Yamaha FG 110 Nippon Gakki (MIJ) red label

bottom: 1971 or '72 Yamaha FG 180 red label ...first year Made in Korea


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

*Continued*....

I bought this tonight for $65.00
Got a case with this one...*foam* lined and likely circa 1970 also

*1970 Yamaha FG 110-1* 
Made in Taiwan (black label) 
Year of production was given by the seller.



















The old fool plods onwards...LOL


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Great job and a lot of patience.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

The old fool (C'est moi) is at it again...

Vintage acoustic guitar with case | guitars | Kitchener / Waterloo | Kijiji

1970 FG 140 (Made in Taiwan..I suspect)










I'm going to meet the seller on his way home from work (hopefully someday soon..if it doesn't sell first) and check the neck angle.


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2017)

greco said:


> 1970 FG 140 (Made in Taiwan..I suspect)


Maybe not. That's a red label in there.
You're a sucker for these old Yami's, aren't 'cha Dave? lol.


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## Mark Trites (Aug 12, 2016)

Have fun with it, and indeed post pictures and progress. I am going to be tackle my fg-312 1973 Yamaha neck reset. Going to be a learning experience for sure. Good luck!!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

greco said:


> The old fool (C'est moi) is at it again...
> 
> Vintage acoustic guitar with case | guitars | Kitchener / Waterloo | Kijiji
> 
> ...


I met with the seller and we had a coffee together. Very nice fellow. The guitar is in excellent condition considering the age. The neck angle isn't perfect but it isn't quite as bad as the old Yamahas I presently own. 

I am terrible with making decisions and decided to wait...if the guitar sells, so be it. I had warned the seller in advance that my decision to buy would be based on an the guitar having a reasonable neck angle. 

I might be somewhat delusional thinking that I will find one of these that does have a good neck angle and is a reasonable price.



laristotle said:


> You're a sucker for these old Yami's, aren't 'cha Dave? lol.


I'm also aware of my "addiction" (as confirmed by @laristotle ) and I'm trying my best to cope.

The day after I met with the seller, he lowered the price from $195.00 to $175.00. He has now lowered it (again) to $150.00.

Vintage acoustic guitar with case | guitars | Kitchener / Waterloo | Kijiji

Resisting is becoming extremely difficult...even with meds.


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## Kenute (Dec 31, 2016)

I like your enthusiasm for the old guitars. Just goes to show there is lots of good stuff out their if ya look.

Trying to cope is futile ,just enjoy
Regards Kenute


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Im not sure if it's been mentioned but there are 10 maybe more sizes of bridge pins. its possible someone just grabbed some from a different make and they don't fit properly because of that. Maybe wrong taper, wrong diameter.

Bridge Pin Sizing Info


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

greco said:


> I met with the seller and we had a coffee together. Very nice fellow. The guitar is in excellent condition considering the age. The neck angle isn't perfect but it isn't quite as bad as the old Yamahas I presently own.
> 
> I am terrible with making decisions and decided to wait...if the guitar sells, so be it. I had warned the seller in advance that my decision to buy would be based on an the guitar having a reasonable neck angle.
> 
> ...


The ad is down(?) did you bring it home?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Scotty said:


> The ad is down(?) did you bring it home?


Nope...I snoozed and I loozed.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

greco said:


> Nope...I snoozed and I loozed.


ah that's a bummer!!


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