# Need Help in solving issues with a "Member"



## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Soon to be resolved it seems..keeping finguers crossed


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Yikes! Man, thats a horror story. Thats the problem with ordering something custom - you dont really have a leg to stand on when it turns out to be not exactly what you wanted (or, to put it another way: a piece of crap!). Does have a website with pictures etc of other bodies which he has made? If your body is way below the standards of other bodies he has finished, then you might be able to shame him into returning your money.

However, from the sounds of the dealings you've had with him so far (poor communication, crappy pics, lots of excuses etc) you might just have to write this one off to experience 

Ooh, and PS: if his name/business does not end up being named in this thread, please send me a PM so that I can avoid him in the future!


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Other that this forum how much did you research this guy? If it's the same guy that I am thinking about .... it wouldn't have.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> Other that this forum how much did you research this guy? If it's the same guy that I am thinking about .... it wouldn't have.


we talked for a while..and i had never seen anyone having issues with him, but guess i'm to trusty.

send me a PM with the one you're thinking about..and if you heard any issues of him!..

thanks


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Yes , I would chalk that one up to experience . By the looks of what when on I would have been concerned almost from the get go that something was not right . 

Personally I would not buy a custom piece unless the builder was very well known and had a lot of references otherwise I think it would be risky . Seems there is a lot of fellows out there that seem to think they are builders but in reality don't know a guitar from a pile of firewood . Sorry it didn't work out for you .

I hope to have Marc Beneteau build me another acoustic next year but that's a whole different thing with Marc being very well known and his guitars used by some notable players plus he's a 45 minute drive from me


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Loosing 100$ is one thing..loosing up to 700$..trust me, i wont let that go to Experience...


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

al3d said:


> Loosing 100$ is one thing..loosing up to 700$..trust me, i wont let that go to Experience...


Good luck getting your money back , I hope it works out for you but unless this guy is willing to make things right I don't think there is much you can do .


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

nitehawk55 said:


> Good luck getting your money back , I hope it works out for you but unless this guy is willing to make things right I don't think there is much you can do .


i'm giving it a bit more time...then i will take the legal road for sure. we can sue someone up to 7500$ using small claim court in canada. If i do, he as to come to court HERE..wich will end-up been a LOT most costly for him in the end.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

al3d said:


> i'm giving it a bit more time...then i will take the legal road for sure. we can sue someone up to 7500$ using small claim court in canada. If i do, he as to come to court HERE..wich will end-up been a LOT most costly for him in the end.


You may have to file where he is. Consult a lawyer/court on that one.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> You may have to file where he is. Consult a lawyer/court on that one.


Not to mention what it may cost you . It's not usually worth it in a lot of cases due to the cost so research that a bit or you may have an even bigger loss .


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

nitehawk55 said:


> Not to mention what it may cost you . It's not usually worth it in a lot of cases due to the cost so research that a bit or you may have an even bigger loss .


small claim courts are free mate. do i have no cost to use that system if i don't get my money back


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

al3d said:


> small claim courts are free mate. do i have no cost to use that system if i don't get my money back


Like I said , research the process a bit , you might find that it isn't free once you get into it . He may counter sue and there is nothing to stop him as it's his word against you . You'll be surprised how some things can turn into an ugly mess and once you have to get lawyers involved you better be ready to pay .


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

nitehawk55 said:


> Like I said , research the process a bit , you might find that it isn't free once you get into it . He may counter sue and there is nothing to stop him as it's his word against you . You'll be surprised how some things can turn into an ugly mess and once you have to get lawyers involved you better be ready to pay .


Don't worry about me..i know the legal system very well. i would'nt dare do anything if he could sue back..wich he as no claim to. I documented everything very well.


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

Good luck with your case.Could you pm me about this builder?I have a feeling its the same guy i dealt with in the past.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Don't forget you have to serve him notice of the claim, at his location, and it has to be served in person or with signature acknowledgement.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

keto said:


> Don't forget you have to serve him notice of the claim, at his location, and it has to be served in person or with signature acknowledgement.


in this case, a registered letter of intent is required....i know..


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

al3d said:


> in this case, a registered letter of intent is required....i know..


Even if you win in small claims court, if this weasel knows the system you still won't get your money!

You can win and then he simply doesn't pay up! You then have to go back to court to get a judgement against him to force him to pay. Each step has more hoops to jump through.

If I were you, I REALLY would ask a lawyer!

:food-smiley-004:


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## Spikezone (Feb 2, 2006)

Geez, what a nightmare!
-Mikey


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

Does this member solicit work here? Or did you approach him/her to do something custom? Just curious... anyone who advertises or goes after work and does that kind of job should be known to the general forum population.

Thats just plain inexcusable. 

AJC


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## noobcake (Mar 8, 2006)

ajcoholic said:


> Does this member solicit work here? Or did you approach him/her to do something custom? Just curious... anyone who advertises or goes after work and does that kind of job should be known to the general forum population.
> 
> Thats just plain inexcusable.
> 
> AJC


Agreed. If this person is advertising their "services" on this site, we all deserve to know who it is, so that something like this does not occur again.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I personally think the name should be posted. Any reputable builder on this forum would have no issue with someone posting any* fair* review of their work on here. And your post is a reasonable story of the situation. This is a community forum, and we do transactions with each other. We have a feedback area so we can give feedback on these transactions. I don't like the idea of someone doing a bad deal like this on the forum, and the name being left private, meaning the chance is there of the same thing happening to the rest of us.

I know some people won't agree, but I just wanted to post my opinion. That is really disheartening to read, especially around the holidays. Sorry for your troubles.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

right now i'm doing my best to avoid naming him in order to get my money back basicaly. if after the holidays it's not settled, i will put his name up, here, and on every forum he's a member of. 

he did not offers himself as a builder but was rather selling a lot of his build in the forum.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

You could try one more time with patience. Visit him in person and outline to him in detail why you are not happy.
Ask him what he would do in your position.
Ask him if he treats other customers the same way.
Ask him if he values having a good business name.
Ask him why he has not made things right with you over this problem.
Ask him for a cheque now.

After each question do not say anything no matter how long it takes for him to speak. He who speaks first loses.

Do not raise your voice and do not be insistent but matter of fact and also that you position is non-negotiable.

If he does not agree to give you a cheque ask him if he would mind having his name and what he did spread across forums like this on a regular basis. Ask him if that was done how many sales it would take before he lost more money than he owes you. (probably only a couple)

If this doesn't work, take him to small claims court.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks mate, but i'm pass that, first, i'm on a 10 hrs drive from him, so not gonna end-up on his door step....and those questions have been asked 20 times each at least so far.



FlipFlopFly said:


> You could try one more time with patience. Visit him in person and outline to him in detail why you are not happy.
> Ask him what he would do in your position.
> Ask him if he treats other customers the same way.
> Ask him if he values having a good business name.
> ...


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

Wow, that's really awful to be on the recieving end of a disaster like that.

Hope it all works out for you. I don't see why the seller wouldn't take back the product and at least give you back what you paid, minus shipping. They should also re-emburse you for the floyd that was lost if the packaging was no good.

I can imagine that it is someone just starting out, rather than someone being malicious. With alll the info on the web, it seems rather simple to build a strat body, customize it and paint it. In actual fact, a one off is allot of work.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Paul said:


> I disagree. Right now we only have one side of a story. I have no reason to believe or disbelieve al3d's side of the story. That's not enough to go on to potentially libel someone. Not yet, anyway.


Paul, if you wanna know who it is and contact him, send me a PM, and i'll give you his name and contact info if you wanna get his "side" of the story. But comming first week of january, I will broadcast his name all over so this never happens to anyone else.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Paul said:


> I disagree. Right now we only have one side of a story. I have no reason to believe or disbelieve al3d's side of the story. That's not enough to go on to potentially libel someone. Not yet, anyway.


True in most cases I agree. But on top of the fact that he has the product and evidence, a lot of us (including myself) have done transactions with al3d on here. Based on that I have no reason to question his side. But also just based on the details provided I don't question it.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

torndownunit said:


> True in most cases I agree. But on top of the fact that he has the product and evidence, a lot of us (including myself) have done transactions with al3d on here. Based on that I have no reason to question his side. But also just based on the details provided I don't question it.


Don't worry mate, i have ABSOLUTELY no fear of letting the other side of the story as paul said be told...I stand by my clain, and the TRUTH will be reveiled..LOL


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## dan_ (Feb 5, 2008)

al3d said:


> Paul, if you wanna know who it is and contact him, send me a PM, and i'll give you his name and contact info if you wanna get his "side" of the story. But comming first week of january, I will broadcast his name all over so this never happens to anyone else.


If it's a member here, I'd recommend that you stop posting about all this. You've basically laid out your hand, and let this member see what options you're evaluating.

This can all go especially bad if the member has legitimate reasons for what has happened. I'm not saying that they do, and I know you've received your product - but sometimes, issues like this are better not discussed until all things are final (either you get your money, or the other party flat-out refuses to compensate/refund your money). Like Paul said, this is all totally one-sided at this point, and the longer this is discussed, the less likely it is that a favourable outcome will develop.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

dan_ said:


> If it's a member here, I'd recommend that you stop posting about all this. You've basically laid out your hand, and let this member see what options you're evaluating.
> 
> This can all go especially bad if the member has legitimate reasons for what has happened. I'm not saying that they do, and I know you've received your product - but sometimes, issues like this are better not discussed until all things are final (either you get your money, or the other party flat-out refuses to compensate/refund your money). Like Paul said, this is all totally one-sided at this point, and the longer this is discussed, the less likely it is that a favourable outcome will develop.


WHat kind of legitimate reason can someone have to do such a thing?..please, i'm press to understand your point?...is their any legitimate reason to screw someone, to steal from them?.


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## mario (Feb 18, 2006)

al3d said:


> WHat kind of legitimate reason can someone have to do such a thing?..please, i'm press to understand your point?...is their any legitimate reason to screw someone, to steal from them?.


I totally agree with al3d. He put up his hard earned money to have a some work done and the member in question did not do it. There is no excuse to screw al3d out of his money. I certainly hope it works out for you in the end....if not, let us know who he is.


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## PaulS (Feb 27, 2006)

Maybe the member is in hard financial times... have you tried the barter approach? Would be better than a complete loss. Just a thought.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

PaulS said:


> Maybe the member is in hard financial times... have you tried the barter approach? Would be better than a complete loss. Just a thought.


he's in no financial trouble that's for sure. and as for barter, i don't need anything else..i need my $$$ back so i can finish my project that's months overdue realy.


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## dan_ (Feb 5, 2008)

al3d said:


> WHat kind of legitimate reason can someone have to do such a thing?..please, i'm press to understand your point?...is their any legitimate reason to screw someone, to steal from them?.



Taking an issue like this to the court of public opinion will never get you the results you desire. Last post in this thread for me. kqoct


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Good luck in recovering your $$ Alain , it's too bad this went so poorly for you and it's clear you are bitter about it hence you posting asking for opinions on it from other members on here .
You seem to feel you have all the answers already on how to deal with this and some have tried to suggest how you should aproach it with some good advice but how you choose is up to you . In the end it comes down to the old saying....buyer beware . We can all learn something from what you have experienced with this fellow and that is to know more about what a person is selling or what services they offer as far as being qualified before commiting to a project such as this was and sending money and parts for it . Unless you are really sure about the work and reputation that a person such as this does it is at best a risk you take . That doesn't make any of this right and it certainly seems from what you say is that you were misled by this fellow so again , best of luck in resolving this and I hope it works out well for you .


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

I too am sympathetic to your bad experience, Alain. Hope you get some satisfaction.

That being said, perhaps some folks might appreciate knowing that these problems work both ways. As a service tech, I've had some unreasonable customers.

I had one guy who had an amp with bad noises. He believed it was just a bad volume pot but when I opened the amp up I found that of course, he was dead wrong. The pot needed a bit of cleaning but the real problem was a noisy 12AX7 that appeared to be one of Marconi's first models, along with a whole pile of old and rotting carbon comp resistors and weak and gassy output tubes.

I explained all this to him but he insisted I just change the pot. So I did. Two months later he calls me up complaining about all the noises in his amp and insists that it was perfect before I changed the pot!

I've had others that I swear if I just replaced a knob would expect a complete set of tubes for free! I've had other guys blame me for burned out power transformers. When I looked I found that they had replaced the 3A fuse with a 15A microwave appliance fuse from Canadian Tire, like putting a penny in an old fuse box.

Some of this I chalk up to simple human nature. We naturally don't want to have to pay out money so we resist accepting that the universe works the way it does and doesn't care how we feel about it. I had the wife's van break down one night and when I went to pick her up my van died too! The next day both were towed to our mechanic and while her van only needed a timing belt my van had broken a crankshaft and for its age became a writeoff. I didn't blame my mechanic. It was a fluke to have both family vehicles die at once but it had nothing to do with him!

Some of it however is just human cussedness, and there I take a different tack. The fellow blaming me for all those problems after I changed the pot just pushed it too far. So I told him I was sorry he was unhappy and obviously I hadn't been able to do the repair to his satisfaction. I gave him back the hour's labour charge, keeping only the cost of the new pot.

Then I gave him a competitor's card. This competitor has to be the worst knob to ever pick up a soldering iron! Even his own family warns players not to go to him! I told the customer that this guy was slow but very "thorough".

Three months later the guy was calling me again. I refused to look at his amp! I just told him that I had such a backlog it might be months before I could get around to his amp.

Some might think that I didn't play fair but frankly, I don't care! Life is too short to put up with such aggravation. I've worked hard to be more than fair to my customers. Most are well aware that I usually calculate my labour hours on the low side, often by a lot! I give a lifetime guarantee to the work I do, at least as long as I'm alive!:smile: That doesn't cover tubes or wearable parts like filters, of course but if I put in an under-rated part or wire it up poorly to cause a future problem then I consider that warranty.

I just won't take responsibility if I fix a capacitor in the preamp and some 10 year old output tubes give out!

Most of these guys who expect so much don't seem to realize that when a tech of any kind looks after his clientele well he tends to get so much business it would be a waste of his time to rip people off! It would actually take more effort!

I'm grateful to have a steadily growing pool of great customers that operate under mutual trust. Since I'm in a niche market I'm fortunate that I don't have to scrape for business. So I can favour good customers and turn away the bad ones to some of the competition. Why should I let the a**holes slow me down to make good people wait longer?

Perhaps I'm just getting to be a bit of an old crankbag but I've always had this streak. I still remember years ago before ATM's when on Fridays everyone went to the bank to cash their paycheque. One Friday the guy ahead of me in a long line was ranting at the poor teller girl, giving her a really hard time. After a while all of us in line who couldn't help but hear him realized that he was dead wrong but he just wouldn't let up.

Finally, something in me just snapped. I stepped in front of him and said to the girl "Excuse me Miss but do we all have to wait while this mistaken a**hole gives you an unfair hard time?"

The guy stared at me and then started to glow red but before he could start on me an amazing thing happened. The other people in the line started cheering me, telling the guy to get lost and come back when he had his facts straight!

The geek folded like a cheap shirt and slunk out the door. I turned back to the teller and she flashed me a grin from ear to ear, saying "Can I help you?"

Bill and Ted said it best. We should all be excellent to each other.

:food-smiley-004:


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Just a couple of thoughts



al3d said:


> the body was'nt even sealed before paint, so you can see the freaking wood under the paint


With a sunburst you'd normally see the grain, did you ask for a heavier solid color? or am I misunderstanding this?




al3d said:


> Frustrated, i try every way to fix the body, *i sand it a bit, and try to repaint it myself*. I think i might have fixed it, and suddenly the paint starts to peal...his paint was'nt holding on the the freaking body.


If you're going to court, sorry man, this could be a big problem. You're always better to just leave it if you're chasing the guy. Now he can say you caused some, or maybe all, of the problem. He can simply say you were supposed to leave the finish to set up for 3 months, 6 months, whatever.

When you start a lawsuit, be prepared for some sort of settlement, it's unlikely you get all the $ back. 
I know you paid him in good faith, but he might have done the work to the best of his ability, and that's where buyer beware kicks in. You admit he isn't a professional, and there is some risk in that. He can simply say he put in the hours, did it as best he could, and you knew he wasn't a pro.
Maybe you can negotiate some of your $ back, 1/2, 3/4, something like that.


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

Sorry to hear about the problems. I too have been burned like this over the net. Once or twice, now I am a lot more careful. I know what you are going through in your mind being frustrated, mad, overall pissed off. It does help to vent a little on this forum and get the support from other members. This is part of getting over your feelings of being violated. Do what you may, but in all honesty $700 is not too big of a loss. Sure it hurts, and it may feel like a large sum but in time you will probably get over it and move on. The sooner you do the better. Try to channel your angry energy into finding a way to make up that $700 loss. Flip a few deals, or something to make up the loss. Pocket the the new found earning and learn from this experience. We do take risks in dealing over the net, I try and limit my cash exposure. If it goes bad I too get mad and about an hour later shrug it off and find a way get that back through some other means. I am a firm believer what comes around goes around. Karma.
There are some bad deals out there, however there are way more good deals. Just 2 months ago I sold my 2000 Les Paul for around $1400 I think it was to a guy sight unseen. He is smitten with it and got a great deal.
Do what you may, but consider the aggravation, time and stress of trying to sue this guy for $700.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

dwagar said:


> Just a couple of thoughts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


the body was to be in SOLID colors..and since the body was'nt sealed, we could "see" or feel the wood grain under the paint..don't know if that makes more sens.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

keithb7 said:


> Sorry to hear about the problems. I too have been burned like this over the net. Once or twice, now I am a lot more careful. I know what you are going through in your mind being frustrated, mad, overall pissed off. It does help to vent a little on this forum and get the support from other members. This is part of getting over your feelings of being violated. Do what you may, but in all honesty $700 is not too big of a loss. Sure it hurts, and it may feel like a large sum but in time you will probably get over it and move on. The sooner you do the better. Try to channel your angry energy into finding a way to make up that $700 loss. Flip a few deals, or something to make up the loss. Pocket the the new found earning and learn from this experience. We do take risks in dealing over the net, I try and limit my cash exposure. If it goes bad I too get mad and about an hour later shrug it off and find a way get that back through some other means. I am a firm believer what comes around goes around. Karma.
> There are some bad deals out there, however there are way more good deals. Just 2 months ago I sold my 2000 Les Paul for around $1400 I think it was to a guy sight unseen. He is smitten with it and got a great deal.
> Do what you may, but consider the aggravation, time and stress of trying to sue this guy for $700.



Sorry, but 700$ is a LOT of money..it's a car payment and a morgage payment, so i just don't have a money tree in my backyard, i work as a freelance artist, and trust me, to make 700$ i work my ass off.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

al3d said:


> the body was to be in SOLID colors..and since the body was'nt sealed, we could "see" or feel the wood grain under the paint..don't know if that makes more sens.


Depending on what kind of wood, that's not so unusual - a) to not seal it, on my ash tele's I don't....and b) to see/feel woodgrain, heck even on Custom Shop Gibson's that's sometimes the case. Depends on thickness of finish too, if you want a thick finish, sure you will probably never feel the grain.

As dwagar said, now that you messed with it I think you have no case, you've messed with the evidence. *shrugs*


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

keto said:


> Depending on what kind of wood, that's not so unusual - a) to not seal it, on my ash tele's I don't....and b) to see/feel woodgrain, heck even on Custom Shop Gibson's that's sometimes the case. Depends on thickness of finish too, if you want a thick finish, sure you will probably never feel the grain.
> 
> As dwagar said, now that you messed with it I think you have no case, you've messed with the evidence. *shrugs*


dude....i NEVER saw a guitar with a solid guitar where you could feel the grain of the wood with your hand..i'm taking solid clear coated guitars.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

al3d said:


> dude....i NEVER saw a guitar with a solid guitar where you could feel the grain of the wood with your hand..i'm taking solid clear coated guitars.


ive seen older guitars, either there was no sealer coat, or it was weak, or it broke down over time, or whatever. but the finish sinks into the grain, so the coating is still basically there, but it has shrunken into the wood
i have a few guitars that are like that, but theyre all old.
with the relic thing i expect guys are recreating that on new guitars.
but if thats not what you wanted, and you paid money, then you are right.
and i agree with your approach.
good luck alain


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I've played guitars with grain showing through a solid finish. I owned a 2002 Gibson Melody Maker, and they had no grain filler at all, and a satin finish. The paint sank into the grain, and you could feel that running your hand over it. It was a basically a satin finish, with no grain filler. I think this is the type of finish al3d's body arrived with.

BUT...that was a FEATURE of the Gibson, and clearly listed in it's specs. It's definitely not something you would expect ordering a standard finished, solid colour Strat body. It's something that you would request, or that the seller would definitely need to inform you of before buying. If you are order a 'normal/standard' finished Strat body, you expect to receive just that. 

IMO unless the seller clearly stated the guitar was going to arrive with a finish like al3d describes or like that I described, he is in the wrong. I mean, can anyone here say if they ordered a standard finished Strat body, they would expect it to arrive with a finish like al3d is describing?

But as mentioned many times, being able to do anything about that is a whole other issue.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

nkjanssen said:


> So, this guy is outside of Canada? I hate to break it to you, but a small claims judgement in your province will do you absolutely no good whatsoever.


never said he was outside Canada.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

So .. whats going on with this? It looks like you edited your first post to indicate that it might be resolved? Lots of posts on this thread and inquiring minds want to know.


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