# New type of band situation making me a little nervous.



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I haven't really been nervous in a performance situation since the early 80's. It seems I'll be starting to play lead-electric in my church's praise and worship band on the 13th of this month. Its completely different than the establishments I've played. I am not familiar with the material at all but I'm not really concerned about that as they've given me a song list and I have a week and a half to study. 
I am worried about volume control and a general approach as to how I play which will likely be very different for this situation. I'm not worried too much about the level of musician ship as I have far more experience than anyone else in the band. Of course they know that and it makes me a little nervous as maybe the expectations will be high. They used to have a fantastic drummer at one time, Jamie Prokop who toured for years with light house when Skip retired. I wish he was there but he moved on a while ago.
So anyone in a similar circumstance have any advice?


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Find out who the sound guy is ASAP and find out what the expectations are- some places like run everything direct or have amps offstage. It’s good to know ahead of time what to expect on that front.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

gtrguy said:


> Find out who the sound guy is ASAP and find out what the expectations are- some places like run everything direct or have amps offstage. It’s good to know ahead of time what to expect on that front.



Good idea. I know one of the guys that serves on sound. The guy that trains them and is a master takes turns and would be great if he was on the day my turn is. I don't know him as well but I'll try to reach out to him as I'll likely get some good insight.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Which building is it?


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

I usually will visit the place just to get an idea of what I'm going to be dealing with. I mostly do that for my band as I am the one who does the booking. Have you practiced with the band? Coz that will tell you right away how loud the band plays and you can make your adjustments. But definitely check out the place and talk to whoever the sound guy is going to be. Normally, this last one I do at the day of the gig. I always say to the band, 'keep the stage volume down" and allow the sound guy to do what he is paid to do.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Which building is it?


We are in between buildings right now (Looking for property for a new building, pandemic put us behind) so we're in a suite at the Best Western on holiday dr. Not the most ideal situation as they have to tear down and setup most weeks where as we used to have everything set up all the time. The guy that leads the technology team is a pretty good sound guy and we have decent sound gear.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Chito said:


> I usually will visit the place just to get an idea of what I'm going to be dealing with. I mostly do that for my band as I am the one who does the booking. Have you practiced with the band? Coz that will tell you right away how loud the band plays and you can make your adjustments. But definitely check out the place and talk to whoever the sound guy is going to be. Normally, this last one I do at the day of the gig. I always say to the band, 'keep the stage volume down" and allow the sound guy to do what he is paid to do.


The stage volume is one thing that makes me a little nervous. I'm so used to situations where the volume is much louder. I have seen their volumes and I will have to be very careful I work with in those volume levels. The different players that I've seen in this church have small amps (which I also have) and even those are usually placed behind the player but positioned either off the the side away from the congregation and the rest of the band or turned around backwards altogether. I've played with my amp turned around and don't really like it. I'm thinking of placing it on a stand angled up, infront of me.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> The stage volume is one thing that makes me a little nervous. I'm so used to situations where the volume is much louder. I have seen their volumes and I will have to be very careful I work with in those volume levels. The different players that I've seen in this church have small amps (which I also have) and even those are usually placed behind the player but positioned either off the the side away from the congregation and the rest of the band or turned around backwards altogether. I've played with my amp turned around and don't really like it. I'm thinking of placing it on a stand angled up, infront of me.


If I was playing in a church, I'd give serious consideration to using a modeler and IEMs. They'll be asking you to turn up. That's always easier than turing down.


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## Peel Ferrari (Jun 22, 2017)

From what I have read, and from an acquaintance that plays in a worship band, DI sound and quiet stages are the norm. IEMs and personal monitoring etc. So that may be your situation too. I looked into set ups like this and came up with the Strymon Iridium + monitor and it worked well. Although the Iridium doesnt have an FX loop.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I haven't really been nervous in a performance situation since the early 80's. It seems I'll be starting to play lead-electric in my church's praise and worship band on the 13th of this month. Its completely different than the establishments I've played. I am not familiar with the material at all but I'm not really concerned about that as they've given me a song list and I have a week and a half to study.
> I am worried about volume control and a general approach as to how I play which will likely be very different for this situation. I'm not worried too much about the level of musician ship as I have far more experience than anyone else in the band. Of course they know that and it makes me a little nervous as maybe the expectations will be high. They used to have a fantastic drummer at one time, Jamie Prokop who toured for years with light house when Skip retired. I wish he was there but he moved on a while ago.
> So anyone in a similar circumstance have any advice?


Been there.....As counter intuitive as this may sound, play to their strengths, not yours. If you're far more experienced, use that knowledge to insert yourself seemlessly. You don't want to be relied upon to carry the band. Better to complement the whole than one's self which I'm sure you'll be able to do easily.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> If I was playing in a church, I'd give serious consideration to using a modeler and IEMs. They'll be asking you to turn up. That's always easier than turing down.


I will be getting in to IEM's eventually when the other band that I work with starts implementing theres. They've all purchased them a year and a half a go but the few shows I played with them last summer\fall they hadn't gotten around to using them yet. I was prepared to buy a system then but I wanted them to be ready. The rest of the worship band doesn't use IEM's so not sure how useful it would be for me to use them there.
As for modeling thats always a good idea and I imagine I could get in to a basic rig fairly inexpensively.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

If you want to use your current pedals, etc you could get a Humboldt simplifier or iridium (iridium needs a DI box) and just run through the PA with a wedge monitor or the IEMS. Both boxes have amp sims, cab IR's and EQ. They sound really good-very similar to an amp with a reactive load box and much simpler to use.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Sounds like a temporary set-up, so I suspect that it will be pretty bare-bones. You are right in thinking that a small amp pointed at your ears is your best option. At my church, they put the amps in a room backstage and mic them, but I don't imagine a hotel boardroom would allow for that, unless there is a closet available. I'm with @Milkman in thinking that some sort of emulator is good bet if you don't mind shelling out some cash - assuming that the board has enough channels to feed your guitar through it.

Definitely talk to the sound tech ahead of time and maybe arrange to meet early, if possible. Checking out the room ahead of time is also good advice - even knowing where the wall outlets are can be helpful. I've worked in places that only have one plug in the room (for vacuuming) so that if you need power, you have to order and pay for it.

It would also be worth talking to other guitarists who have played with the band.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

zdogma said:


> If you want to use your current pedals, etc you could get a Humboldt simplifier or iridium (iridium needs a DI box) and just run through the PA with a wedge monitor or the IEMS. Both boxes have amp sims, cab IR's and EQ. They sound really good-very similar to an amp with a reactive load box and much simpler to use.



Doing some research the Humboldt simplifier is looking very interesting. I see L&M does not carry it. Electric Mojo does but are out of stock. I've requested to be contacted when in stock again. I'll have to do more research on how this can benefit me for live and even for recording which I've started doing in the past year.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Im Pretty sure you need an amp modeller and all the strymon pedals to play this.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

It sounds like you've attended the church already and have a good sense of what they are looking for. I think you are on the right track with getting a small amp on a chair or stand and pointing it generally at you (maybe not right in your face so it isn't super bright). That should provide enough volume to hear yourself and be picked up by a mic. If they eventually go the IEM route, you might want to change that up.



zdogma said:


> If you want to use your current pedals, etc you could get a Humboldt simplifier or iridium (iridium needs a DI box) and just run through the PA with a wedge monitor or the IEMS. Both boxes have amp sims, cab IR's and EQ. They sound really good-very similar to an amp with a reactive load box and much simpler to use.


I find modellers run through a wedge just doesn't sound right for the player. If it's a smaller setup, you probably don't have a separate EQ for the front of house and monitors, so what you get back to your monitor sounds off because the sound is adjusted for the room. In addition, modelers sound like mic'd and recorded amps, not like an amp in front of you, so that can be off-putting.

An alternative that can make a lot of people happy is to run both amps and modellers at the same time. For example, if you run all of your effects into the front-end of a clean amp, use a stereo pedal as the last one in your chain. Then send one side to your little amp as your monitor, and the other side to a modeller like the Iridium to send to the PA. That way you get a good "amp tone" to play with, and the sound guy gets a finely crafted tone from the modeller/IR and need not worry about miking the amp or feedback issues. I do find the Iridium sounds great, is easy to use, and most churches have lots of DI boxes already.

If you eventually go the all IEM route, sound guys often want a "silent stage", meaning amps off stage in some other room or modellers. In that case, the right modeller can sound decent in your in-ears, but they are enhanced hugely by some subtle stereo effects (delay, reverb) to make it feel a little more "real".

It seems that there is often a bit of a clash between guitar players and church sound guys. If the guitar player had his way, the stage would be shakingly loud. If the sound guy had his way, zero noise would come from the stage. It can take some negotiation to get a good balance. Of course, you want your performance to be amplified to the audience in the most pleasing manner, but on the other hand you want to be able to hear yourself in a way that sounds good so that you can produce a performance worth amplifying.

Best of luck!


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

troyhead said:


> I think you are on the right track with getting a small amp on a chair or stand and pointing it generally at you (*maybe not right in your face so it isn't super bright*).
> 
> Funnily enough over the years pretty much every amp I ever owned, I could not stand being aimed right at me. They all sounded much better off axis. But this would make it difficult to control the volume. The new mesa amp I picked up back in July sounds fantastic right at me. I've gigged with it several times and found that it was better if it was aimed right up at my face.


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

sounds like you attend that church? so making an assumption what you mean by not knowing the songs is that you haven't performed them but probably have heard them or at least familiar with the vibe

my experience is that playing in church is different than any other venue. even in a charismatic or pentecostal congregation the crowd is far quieter, more likely to sing along, and you won't ever be playing over them talking to each other fighting or hooking up (well ... maybe hooking up) or watching the hockey game on the other screen. and more and more congregations that would at one time have been considered conservative in worship style have a worship band so then you get the weird combination of a rock band at the front and rows of absolutely silent and still people paying one hundred and ten percent attention. a finger tap on the chair or shifting weight from right foot to left counts as getting into it. almost like playing for a huge jury at a music school competition or audition. 

i would say one thing to watch for is that if the flow of the service leads to people testifying or sharing or teaching or praying during the music block with music behind the speaker that's a situation that a bar band or festival show rarely runs into. I've seen bands lay down pads and background for ten or fifteen minutes while somebody speaks and there's a funny musical conversation that goes on there and then they're done and you need to kick into the next song pretty quickly. If your church does that already you might be able to lean on the keys player and rhythm guitar to hold down the fort. 

that said, i don't like pop band worship services. i do play at the church i attend and i think of it like session work. i do the best i can to help the people who have asked me get the best sound they can in the event they have chosen to play at. for my own preferences i want to play in a loud band at a club or an outdoor festival on Saturday night and sing hymns like a choir with an acoustic piano and a conductor on sunday morning. i like playing in a rock band and i like a church service but i don't like them at the same time. it's like icing on a pickle. but evidently that's mostly me. even some of the conservative mennonite churches in this area have praise bands now. 

j


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

What would Jesus do?

He would show up with shades and a 100 watt Marshall and blow the band out of the water. The entire congregation would catch the Holy Ghost and triple their collection donation.

That would be my advice.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Always12AM said:


> What would Jesus do?
> 
> He would show up with shades and a 100 watt Marshall and blow the band out of the water. The entire congregation would catch the Holy Ghost and triple their collection donation.
> 
> That would be my advice.


I'd like to think He'd show up with a Fender Blackface something and a Tele.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

guitarman2 said:


> I'd like to think He'd show up with a Fender Blackface something and a Tele.


Jesus would probably play a 4x10 Bassman and a pedal steel. Except he would play it from 200 feet away using only his mind. He would show up to church in a house coat and a big smile and say “y’all need to relax… drink some wine, eat some naan bread and let’s get some spiritual twang underway”!!


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

If the sound system provides you with a personal monitor/mix, use it to your advantage. 

Even small combo amps can be considered "too loud". Sometimes you are reduced to mic-ing an anemic whisper.

Monitor mix? Sound-persons will happily blast you with "more me". Snare? Yes. Vocals? Yes. Guitar? Crank it....


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

guitarman2 said:


> Skip retired


Skip Prokop!!! Wow, the Paupers album _Magic People_ is a pschedelic classic! 

Well, I checked my Bible and Jesus sang. Probably Old Testament psalms. No record of any instruments, but you never know, maybe He liked to noodle unplugged on the couch too.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 401326


"Sing to Him a new song,
"Play with skill and a joyful shout!" -- Psalm 33


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

tonewoody said:


> If the sound system provides you with a personal monitor/mix, use it to your advantage.
> 
> Even small combo amps can be considered "too loud". Sometimes you are reduced to mic-ing an anemic whisper.
> 
> Monitor mix? Sound-persons will happily blast you with "more me". Snare? Yes. Vocals? Yes. Guitar? Crank it....


I plan on using my Mesa Fillmore 50 on half power (25W). Its got fantastic master volumes. I can get a decent low volume tone at home in my office so I can't imagine it being too hard to handle low volume there. Especially on a stand infront of me pointing up. In front of me is not my favorite place but I have done it a few times over the years. I prefer it to turning the amp around backwards.


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

guitarman2 said:


> I plan on using my Mesa Fillmore 50 on half power (25W). Its got fantastic master volumes. I can get a decent low volume tone at home in my office so I can't imagine it being too hard to handle low volume there. Especially on a stand infront of me pointing up. In front of me is not my favorite place but I have done it a few times over the years. I prefer it to turning the amp around backwards.


Sounds good. Decent low volume tone is what you need.

For myself, having enough volume to have the guitar/amp/speaker interact (sustain/feedback) is a big deal. Not talking "3rd Stone from the Sun" feedback (well, sometimes ). Playing live without having the natural harmonic bloom/sonic resonance on tap is no fun.

If you can't get that natural guitar/amp interaction due to volume constraints, use the monitor mix to your advantage. Sound people seem to have little reservation when it comes to cranking up the monitors.

Playing "too quiet" often translates to holding back. A healthy monitor mix can be pretty inspiring. ... YMMV


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)




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