# Thoughts on volume pedal in an effects loop



## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Like the title says.
I am considering it for different reasons.
I mostly use the volume pedal for swells & in effects loop it would act as a master volume--which opens up some possibilities.
It would also allow me to reconfigure my pedalboard plans for the guitar board.


but I'm not sure.

I'm going to give it a shot next time I play.

but any thoughts? ideas? warnings?


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

It's not an attenuator. It's not going to give you cranked power tube amp sound at quieter volumes.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Guncho said:


> It's not an attenuator. It's not going to give you cranked power tube amp sound at quieter volumes.


No but it will affect volume cleanly vs being in front of the input.

If.you have the cables already, itcs a free experiment.


----------



## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

I built a 'volume pedal' and put it in the loop...when we set up, i would set my amp to lead volume and then dial back the volume with the pedal...instant volume bump for leads...worked great


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I would say it will depend on the nature of the effects loop itself. Certainly, that's one of the locations where crackle is NOT okay. So, ideally the volume pedal would be optical or some other design that would not introduce any momentary discontinuities after extensive use. And of course, the choice of volume pedal would also depend on impedance compatibility; something which will also vary with the design/nature of effects loop in that particular amp.

As ezcomes has illustrated and confirmed, it CAN "work great". Just try to avoid those arrangements where it doesn't.


----------



## Westhaver (Jul 26, 2015)

I have used a JHS little black amp box for this purpose, although not as adjustable on the fly.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Westhaver said:


> I have used a JHS little black amp box for this purpose, although not as adjustable on the fly.


What amps have serial effects loops?


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Guncho said:


> What amps have serial effects loops?


Almost every amp with a loop - parallel loops are uncommon.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

This is marketing nonsense and guitar myth. The desired overdrive sound from a tube is power amp distortion. Not preamp. Turning down the signal going to the power amp section of your amp is not going to achieve this. All this pedal or a volume pedal in the effects loop is going to do is to allow you to crank the bees in a can preamp while turning down the preamp. Whoopitydoo. That's what a master volume does.

Go to your amp with a master volume. Set the preamp knob to 10. Now turn the master volume down to speaking volume. Does that sound like a classic cranked amp to you?

The only way to achieve power tube breakup at bedroom volumes is with an attenuator that lowers the signal between the amp and the speaker.


----------



## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Westhaver said:


> I have used a JHS little black amp box for this purpose, although not as adjustable on the fly.


Mine has worked out well for me.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Just out of curiosity, are there amps with effects loops and no master volume control? That is, an amplifier where the only way to achieve a usable overdriven preamp at reasonable volume levels IS to stick some attenuation between preamp and power sections in an effects loop? I'm not out there shopping for amps, so I'm unaware of what is common or uncommon.


----------



## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

how much cable going between the amp, the volume pedal, and back to the amp?

if your setup and where you're playing is prone to RF noise that might be something to think about with long runs

j


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Sketchy Jeff said:


> how much cable going between the amp, the volume pedal, and back to the amp?
> 
> if your setup and where you're playing is prone to RF noise that might be something to think about with long runs
> 
> j


True, but it is a buffered signal, so not nearly as much RF problem as long cables with a passive driver, like guitar pickups to a pedalboard. 

I don't see the advantage (for the reasons @Guncho explained) except to have a remote, foot-operable MV. Some amp's preamp distortion sounds good all by itself, some amps really benefit a lot from some PI / power amp distortion. I prefer a good power attenuator - an active reamper actually - to get that kind of distortion an MV can't get you.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

@zontar I thought I would help by googling Knofler's swells since he does it so well. All I found was some nonsense on another forum. My favourite: "He picks harder."


----------



## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

7


High/Deaf said:


> True, but it is a buffered signal, so not nearly as much RF problem as long cables with a passive driver, like guitar pickups to a pedalboard.
> 
> I don't see the advantage (for the reasons @Guncho explained) except to have a remote, foot-operable MV. Some amp's preamp distortion sounds good all by itself, some amps really benefit a lot from some PI / power amp distortion. I prefer a good power attenuator - an active reamper actually - to get that kind of distortion an MV can't get you.


Yes, but you must think, modern mid/hi gain amps get all their tone from the pre-amp section...the MV making it louder, and starting at another point, imparts power tube distortion...

Maybe thats what the OP has...and maybe its a volume thin as well...maybe they cant get the cranked Power tube dirt in the first place, and their sound is all pre-amp


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

ezcomes said:


> 7
> 
> Yes, but you must think, modern mid/hi gain amps get all their tone from the pre-amp section...the MV making it louder, and starting at another point, imparts power tube distortion...
> 
> Maybe thats what the OP has...and maybe its a volume thin as well...maybe they cant get the cranked Power tube dirt in the first place, and their sound is all pre-amp


What modern amp doesn't have a master volume? What do you need two for? It would be like having a sink with two hot water knobs.


----------



## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

I didnt say anything about not having a MV...in fact, i did note that a MV increases the volume of the pre-amp

A MV isnt going to do $hit when it comes to a volume bump for a solo, let alone volume swells like the OP noted...
But, if you can post a video showing us all how a MV can provide volume swells, i think we'd all like to learn


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I didn't make any of the claims you mention d.


ezcomes said:


> I didnt say anything about not having a MV...in fact, i did note that a MV increases the volume of the pre-amp
> 
> A MV isnt going to do $hit when it comes to a volume bump for a solo, let alone volume swells like the OP noted...
> But, if you can post a video showing us all how a MV can provide volume swells, i think we'd all like to learn


I didn't make any of the claims you mentioned.


----------



## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

mhammer said:


> Just out of curiosity, are there amps with effects loops and no master volume control? That is, an amplifier where the only way to achieve a usable overdriven preamp at reasonable volume levels IS to stick some attenuation between preamp and power sections in an effects loop? I'm not out there shopping for amps, so I'm unaware of what is common or uncommon.


It seems somewhat common with Fender amps.


----------



## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Budda said:


> No but it will affect volume cleanly vs being in front of the input.
> 
> If.you have the cables already, itcs a free experiment.


I do intend to try it myslef--but wanted to see what I could find about it online as well.
At this point I'm not sold either way--and set of leaning against it--but not against trying it.



Guncho said:


> This is marketing nonsense and guitar myth. The desired overdrive sound from a tube is power amp distortion. Not preamp. Turning down the signal going to the power amp section of your amp is not going to achieve this. All this pedal or a volume pedal in the effects loop is going to do is to allow you to crank the bees in a can preamp while turning down the preamp. Whoopitydoo. That's what a master volume does.
> 
> Go to your amp with a master volume. Set the preamp knob to 10. Now turn the master volume down to speaking volume. Does that sound like a classic cranked amp to you?
> 
> The only way to achieve power tube breakup at bedroom volumes is with an attenuator that lowers the signal between the amp and the speaker.


I don't know where I said my intent was to get an overdriven sound out of it.


ezcomes said:


> I didnt say anything about not having a MV...in fact, i did note that a MV increases the volume of the pre-amp
> 
> A MV isnt going to do $hit when it comes to a volume bump for a solo, let alone volume swells like the OP noted...
> But, if you can post a video showing us all how a MV can provide volume swells, i think we'd all like to learn


the Volume swells would be done with the volume pedal itself.
I already do those with the pedal as part of my regular pedal chain.


thanks to all who did respond--no matter what you said or if anybody else agreed or disagreed.

i was looking for opinions & put & got plenty.

Now to give it a shot in real life and see if I like it or not--whether or not it does things people said it would or wouldn't do.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Let us know what you discover. 😀


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

The passive Ernie Ball volume pedal seems to get along with the YCV40 effects loop. Sometimes the multi FX is in the loop, sometimes not.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Truth is, I really miss the master volume on the YCV50, and the size and wattage of the YCV20. The volume pedal in the loop is kind of a compromise. Nothing to dislike about the YCV40, it’s a phenomenal amp, but I bought it not long before I gave up my electric bands and should have planned better.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Mooh said:


> Truth is, I really miss the master volume on the YCV50, and the size and wattage of the YCV20. The volume pedal in the loop is kind of a compromise. Nothing to dislike about the YCV40, it’s a phenomenal amp, but I bought it not long before I gave up my electric bands and should have planned better.


Doesn't the 20 have master volume?


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Guncho said:


> Doesn't the 20 have master volume?


Mine didn’t, don’t know about the newer ones.


----------

