# Can't find 3" patch cables



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I need 4 3 inch patch cables for my pedal board with small or pancake connectors. You'd think this is something that would be easy to get. Lava cables could make them but at $20 a cable for a 3 inch cable seems excessive to me. The 6 inch cables I have on the pedal board just look ridiculous. I have a couple front mounted pedals where the input\output are very close. 3 inch would be the perfect length even for the side mounted input\outputs. 
So does anyone know where I could get a moderately priced 3 inch patch cable with small connectors? Don't want the cheapest cable.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I can send you six Lava ends and a foot of cable if you want.
It's the older style solderless mini plugs.

Let me know if you're interested and what type of ends, I have the nineties and straight ends.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

sulphur said:


> I can send you six Lava ends and a foot of cable if you want.
> It's the older style solderless mini plugs.
> 
> Let me know if you're interested and what type of ends, I have the nineties and straight ends.


PM sent


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

For future ref there's these yes, they're molded, but they are good ( I roll my own everything, including cables, but at this price it is a waste of my time to make them myself; been using them for years, not one has failed yet), r angle and reasonably low profile ( pancake hater here, nothing else is smaller).

Guitar Pedal Patch Cable Set - 6 pieces

To make it worth the shipping get a power adapter, daisy chain cable, pedal parts ( pots, switches, enclosures, 1/4" jacks - I only use their Neutrals or the Lumbergs, or plugs, which I buy elsewhere personally), knobs ( great selection) etc or get together with some other local guitarists for a group order.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I got a new pedal board the other day so I'm in the process as well. Luckily I have a bunch already, but I may need something a bit more flexible than a couple of Fenders I have.

GLS was mentioned in a Blog with a link to Amazon. Not sure what the deal with the price difference is though. for 15' of cable and 12 very low profile L connectors, they were asking $42 U.S. The same thing on Amazon.ca was $82. WTF?

Anyway, here's a like to the alternative for a decent price...: 3 x prewired 6" cables. They get really good reviews.

https://www.amazon.ca/GLS-Audio-Patch-Cable-Cords/dp/B007X60AZ4/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1515469325&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=GLS+Audio+Pedal+Board+Kit+DIY+Patch+Cables+Cords+-+15ft+Cable+with+12+Right+Angled+1/4"+TS+Plugs+-+15+Feet+Wire+with+Low+Profile+Pancake+Style+Plug+-+15'+Pedalboard+Cord

EDIT: Oh shoot. Didn't read the Title right. You were looking for 3"


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Just a comment, based on experience, that if you're only going 3" center to center on right angle cables you're going to need VERY flexible cable. You're also going to need to make sure all of the ins and outs line up if they're side jacks. If they're all top jacks then it's not so much of a problem.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2018)

I have been looking at these. Four inches is the smallest:

PCF-DL – The Original Flat Patch Cable from EBS


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Might want to check this thread regarding the EBS cables-

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...tight-fit-patch-cables.1898385/#post-25537182

Seems they may be susceptible to noise as the plastic jacks aren't shielded. Of course, YMMV depending on your rig.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2018)

gtrguy said:


> Might want to check this thread regarding the EBS cables-
> 
> https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...tight-fit-patch-cables.1898385/#post-25537182
> 
> Seems they may be susceptible to noise as the plastic jacks aren't shielded. Of course, YMMV depending on your rig.


Thanks.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

gtrguy said:


> Might want to check this thread regarding the EBS cables-
> 
> https://www.thegearpage.net/board/i...tight-fit-patch-cables.1898385/#post-25537182
> 
> Seems they may be susceptible to noise as the plastic jacks aren't shielded. Of course, YMMV depending on your rig.


Ditto what Player said  I was also thinking about buying some of these.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

You're welcome I guess. Keep in mind that info is not from personal experience so take it for what it is.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

3" is really short, unless you are using thin cable like George L. Heavier cable needs a bigger "turning radius".


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@guitarman2 I can build some for you.

The pancake plugs will be Chinese copies and the cable is standard instrument cable from QComponents.

I have built them for other GC Forum members.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Sneaky said:


> 3" is really short, unless you are using thin cable like George L. Heavier cable needs a bigger "turning radius".


I was reading up on this last evening.

Some sites suggest the formula of a minimal bending radius to be 4-5 times the outer dimension of the cable. Using 1/4 " as an easy example, this would be about 1" minimum bending radius. I have the feeling that this is not critical when applied to pedal boards. 

Thoughts, experiences, comments?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

greco said:


> @guitarman2 I can build some for you.
> 
> The pancake plugs will be Chinese copies and the cable is standard instrument cable from QComponents.
> 
> I have built them for other GC Forum members.


Thanks for the offer Greco. I have forum member generously sending me some Lava cable and solderless ends. If for some reason those cables don't work out (maybe I'll suck at putting them together reliably) I'll give you a call.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2018)

I will never use solderless cables ever again. I have hundreds of $$$ worth of George L's in a bag in a drawer. My buddy tried to give me some of his he will never use again and I said "no thanks".


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

greco said:


> I was reading up on this last evening.
> 
> Some sites suggest the formula of a minimal bending radius to be 4-5 times the outer dimension of the cable. Using 1/4 " as an easy example, this would be about 1" minimum bending radius. I have the feeling that this is not critical when applied to pedal boards.
> 
> Thoughts, experiences, comments?


I thought of this as well. Some of the more expensive patch cables are designed thinner for better bending radius I think. 2 of my pedals are front mounted and I calculate that I'll need a cable of about 2 1/2 inches to go from one input to the other output. But those cables won't be bent. I'm still looking for another OD pedal to finish my board and hoping for front mounted jacks as well. However 2 of the pedals on the board are side jacks. I need to place them fairly close so thats why I need small connectors. I'll go to a 4 inch length if I have to but would prefer 3 inch for a neater look.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Player99 said:


> I will never use solderless cables ever again. I have hundreds of $$$ worth of George L's in a bag in a drawer. My buddy tried to give me some of his he will never use again and I said "no thanks".


I have used planet waves solderless in the past and they were very reliable. I have made some connections initially that didn't work so had to trim back and start over. But once they were on the board they were solid. I'd have gone back to that but the connectors are too big for my needs.
I've heard lots of bad things about George L reliability. As well I've heard the Lava solderless can be very tricky to put together. There are some videos on youtube that clarify an exact method for them to be built and failure to follow those tips can result in unreliability.
The most unreliable patch cable or longer instrument cables for that matter were the most expensive cables I ever purchased. The Evidence Audio cable. I spent about a thousand dollars on instrument cables of various lengths of Evidence Audio for guitar and pedalboard to amp and patch cables for my pedal board. Almost every single one failed with in 2 years. Some failing as soon as a few weeks. As they were guaranteed for life (I think) I sent a couple back for replacements but even that got to be a pain as they were all failing. I bought them direct from EA. In the end I was left with 2 cables that didn't fail and I sold them.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2018)

guitarman2 said:


> I have used planet waves solderless in the past and they were very reliable. I have made some connections initially that didn't work so had to trim back and start over. But once they were on the board they were solid. I'd have gone back to that but the connectors are too big for my needs.
> I've heard lots of bad things about George L reliability. As well I've heard the Lava solderless can be very tricky to put together. There are some videos on youtube that clarify an exact method for them to be built and failure to follow those tips can result in unreliability.


I just watch a video where a guy who makes his living puting together pedalboards for guitar players said only use soldered cables. He talked about increased resistance and poor reliability.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Player99 said:


> I just watch a video where a guy who makes his living puting together pedalboards for guitar players said only use soldered cables. He talked about increased resistance and poor reliability.


There is always someone somewhere telling us to use "this" and don't use "that". Those who have had bad experiences won't use it and those who have had good experiences will. 
My first approach with solderless was thinking it was easy fast and convenient. I found you really have to be careful putting them together but when done right they can be good.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Player99 said:


> I just watch a video where a guy who makes his living puting together pedalboards for guitar players said only use soldered cables. He talked about increased resistance and poor reliability.


Of course if you make your living at this, you'd use the most reliable method available.
Can most people bungle up a solderless cable? Probably.

If assembled properly can a solderless cable be reliable? Yes.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

greco said:


> I was reading up on this last evening.
> 
> Some sites suggest the formula of a minimal bending radius to be 4-5 times the outer dimension of the cable. Using 1/4 " as an easy example, this would be about 1" minimum bending radius. I have the feeling that this is not critical when applied to pedal boards.
> 
> Thoughts, experiences, comments?


That may be a rule of thumb (never heard it personally - I just don't force cable into a bend it won't naturally do and all is fine), but there are other factors (conductor gauge and jacket type/material for example). 

It is a bit of a concern as repeat bending, or leaving a cable overbent for a long period and then unplugging it to rearrange your board (unbending it) can cause it to fail due to stress. 

Just use longer cables to avoid this. If you insist on not having any extra slack (and have side jacks to deal with as implied) just use this type of thing: 










or offset ones if the jacks don;t line up exactly:










This is exactly why I build all my pedals with top jacks (and that is also a major factor in purchase decisions, though I do still buy pedals with side jacks occasionally, but it drives me bonkers). One reason I really like EQD stuff.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Granny Gremlin said:


> That may be a rule of thumb (never heard it personally - I just don't force cable into a bend it won't naturally do and all is fine), but there are other factors (conductor gauge and jacket type/material for example).
> 
> It is a bit of a concern as repeat bending, or leaving a cable overbent for a long period and then unplugging it to rearrange your board (unbending it) can cause it to fail due to stress.
> 
> ...


I was definitely looking in to this solution for my side mounted jacks but then I read an article that said that all pedals with side mounted jacks, the jacks are slightly slanted and that stepping on the pedal repeatedly puts stress on those solid connectors till the fail. I have a Boss and an mxr pedal I need to join so obviously I'd need the offset connector. Do they make good quality ones? I've just seen cheap ones that I'm not sure I'd trust the build.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I was definitely looking in to this solution for my side mounted jacks but then I read an article that said that all pedals with side mounted jacks, the jacks are slightly slanted and that stepping on the pedal repeatedly puts stress on those solid connectors till the fail. I have a Boss and an mxr pedal I need to join so obviously I'd need the offset connector. Do they make good quality ones? I've just seen cheap ones that I'm not sure I'd trust the build.


If you're hard mounting your pedals on a pedaltrain or other board I can't see that being a problem. Throwing them on a carpet or other flexible surface then yes.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

davetcan said:


> If you're hard mounting your pedals on a pedaltrain or other board I can't see that being a problem. Throwing them on a carpet or other flexible surface then yes.


The point of the article I read is that the jacks on the pedal are on a slant and put constant pressure on the jacks and connectors. I have no idea if this is true. I haven't really looked closely. I did use those solid connectors in the 80's. I may give it another try for my one side mounted connection.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

What @davetcan said. 

Jacks are NOT mounted on an angle (anything PCB mount can't be, but older Boss and MXR stuff is not PCB mount - still the enclosure sides are not slanted, but perpendicular to the floor so the jacks can't be angled since they are screwed in to that sidewall... any pedal with sloped sides and chassis vs PCB mount jacks may be a problem though, yes - not sure if such beasts exist).

I haven't used the double-ended ones personally so not sure of any quality issues. Like I said above, I use cheap molded jacks (have spares), cuz pancakes are the worst and anything else is just stupid expensive, including DIY ( I easily have a mile of high quality Gotham GAC-1 guitar cable - small and flexible, and boxes full of Amphenol jacks which I prefer over Neutrik for 1/4", and build all my own, and friend/bandmates, stuff, but it's just totally not worth it here when I can get 6 6" cables for $1.50 each).


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Granny Gremlin said:


> What @davetcan said. Jacks are NOT mounted on an angle (anything PCB mount can't be, but older Boss and MXR stuff is not PCB mount - still the enclosure sides are not slanted, but perpendicyuular to the floor so the jacks can't be angled since they are screwed in to the sidewall... any pedal with sloped sides and chassis vs PCB mount jacks may be a problem though, yes - not sure if such beasts exist).
> 
> I haven't used the double-ended ones personally so not sure of any quality issues. Like I said above, I use cheap molded jacks (have spares), cuz pancakes are the worst, and anything else is just stupid expensive, including DIY ( I easily have a mile of high quality Gotham GAC-1 guitar cable - small and flexible and boxes full of Amphenol jacks, which I prefer over Neutrik for 1/4" and build all my own, and friend/bandmates, stuff, but it';s just totally not worth it here when I can get 6 6" cables for $1.50 each.


Yep!

Back to the "angled" jacks. It is conceivable, probably likely in fact, that the vertical location of the jacks on 2 side by side pedals is different. The result would indeed put pressure on the connector, if you could even get it in.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

This was the article I read referring to pedal couplers.

Why not use pedal couplers? – stinkfoot.se


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Huh, it appears enclosures may be made with a walls just ever so slightly off 90degrees. If you had a whole chain of them that would add up and the ones on the end woul likely go after a while, but I wouldn't worry about it for just a connection or 2. Metal will give that much without breaking; there's flex. You can pre-bend them or, if chassis mount jacks, loosen the jack nuts to give them some wiggle room. Personally I think the concern is overblown, but I haven't exactly tried it so....


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> This was the article I read referring to pedal couplers.
> 
> Why not use pedal couplers? – stinkfoot.se


Interesting, looks like draft angle. Makes sense now that I see it. I've never used solid connectors fortunately.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> ...cuz pancakes are the worst


What reason(s) do you have for saying this?

Just curious as I have made many of these without running into issues.
Some of the cables I made survived touring with a band.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

greco said:


> What reason(s) do you have for saying this?
> 
> Just curious as I have made many of these without running into issues.
> Some of the cables I made survived touring with a band.


I have heard this from many as well. I think a good quality one should be as good as a good quality regular end.

These Mogami ends look nice.

3 Units - Mogami 2524 - 24Inch - Guitar Bass Effects, Patch Cable with Premium Gold Plate


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Not for fricken 70 bones + shipping they don't. That's one expensive powercoat job on those jacks. Sheeeeeet, there's so much fricken snake oil salesmanship in audio it blows my mind. FYI gold jacks for guitar (or any use where there will likely be a lot of plugging/unplugging are a waste of money because the plating will get worn off inside a year or two. If you never rearrange yer board then maybe it'll last. Mostly it just costs more with little benefit.

I wish I had a big enough salary to even consider that, but I don't.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Not for fricken 70 bones + shipping they don't. That's one expensive powercoat job on those jacks. Sheeeeeet, there's so much fricken snake oil salesmanship in audio it blows my mind. FYI gold jacks for guitar (or any use where there will likely be a lot of plugging/unplugging are a waste of money because the plating will get worn off inside a year or two. If you never rearrange yer board then maybe it'll last. Mostly it just costs more with little benefit.
> 
> I wish I had a big enough salary to even consider that, but I don't.


Yup too expensive. Exactly why I didn't order them. I prefer not to pay for gold plating but the plan for my minimalist board is little to no rearranging.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

greco said:


> What reason(s) do you have for saying this?
> 
> Just curious as I have made many of these without running into issues.
> Some of the cables I made survived touring with a band.


That's an "IMHO" and I don't want to start that argument again (search you will find). I know they have their fans, and the ONLY reason people like them is the low profile (with a minor mention of 'vintage correct' when it comes to combo speaker cables). Basically, if you've ever tried to make a cable with one (or fix a cable with one), you know why. Also the price for those is crazy considering how ancient the design is; I do better (not smaller) for cheaper. They used to be the cheapest thing out there, back when I was still in school, and when they were, using them made a bit more sense to me.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Basically, if you've ever tried to make a cable with one (or fix a cable with one), you know why.


That is why I asked. I have made about 50 cables with them. Not my favourite plug and not an amazing design...but they are OK (IMO). 
I get the Chinese pancake plugs for $3.00 or so each.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

a chacun son gut.... but name one other jack that is worse in that regard ('OK' is a rationalization)


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@Granny Gremlin "jest jak jest"
(To be fair to others...this is Polish for "It is what it is")

@guitarman2 Apologies for the derail I have caused.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

@greco Ale moze byc lepjiej (i taniej)


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

*BIGOS
*
Yeah, I know Polish too you guys, even if I don't speak the language. It's all about the Hunters stew with cables.


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## JustinL (Dec 11, 2017)

I highly recomend buying a solderless DIY patch cable kit so you can custom make each cable to your desired specifications. It requires no soldering at all and if you're technically challenged like me, then I can assure they're easy to assemble. I personally like the Lava DIY kit but I hear the D'addario one is also good. You can read more about them here if you are interested.


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