# Is there a way to strip poly and save the paint?



## bionic (Mar 31, 2008)

I really hate the thick poly finish on my '96 MIM tele but really dig the arctic white color. Is there anything I can do that will take off the poly but save the paint so I can just finish it in nitro?


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## Lowtones (Mar 21, 2006)

Afraid not. If you have Poly over white paint, then it's a base coat, clear coat finish. Same as used on Automobiles, Even if you did manage to very carefully sand all the clear coat off and leave the base coat uscathed. (And that's not likely,because the base coat is a very flat & porous, with a texture much like primer, and the clear adheres well into the surface ) The white base coat would not be compatable with a lacquer finish. It would either simply not stick to it and flake off in the near future or it will react with lacquer and lift and wrinkle up. Afraid it's pretty much an all or nothing situation. Just a note, you can put urethane(poly) over lacquer but you cannot put lacquer over poly.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Lowtones said:


> Afraid not. If you have Poly over white paint, then it's a base coat, clear coat finish. Same as used on Automobiles, Even if you did manage to very carefully sand all the clear coat off and leave the base coat uscathed. (And that's not likely,because the base coat is a very flat & porous, with a texture much like primer, and the clear adheres well into the surface ) The white base coat would not be compatable with a lacquer finish. It would either simply not stick to it and flake off in the near future or it will react with lacquer and lift and wrinkle up. Afraid it's pretty much an all or nothing situation. Just a note, you can put urethane(poly) over lacquer but you cannot put lacquer over poly.


in my experience, lacquer can be used to clear coat a poly coat. fender has been using poly as a sealer/base coat under lacquer since almost forever. never heard of poly over nitro working, but i never tried it-
ive got an early jap squier strat- the neck is nitro, but the body has a huge thick poly coat- like an m and m- its white too- i leave it be because i like the way it looks.


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

I thought that Fender used a vinyl sealer under their nitro finishes?

in my experience, the polyester finishes are not clearcoats but the ploy itself is tinted. Then again, I havent seen every guitar....

I have stripped a few polyester finished guitars and there was definitely no clearcoat on those.

AJC


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## bionic (Mar 31, 2008)

I figured as much. Time to get scraping


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## Lowtones (Mar 21, 2006)

fraser said:


> in my experience, lacquer can be used to clear coat a poly coat. fender has been using poly as a sealer/base coat under lacquer since almost forever. never heard of poly over nitro working, but i never tried it-
> ive got an early jap squier strat- the neck is nitro, but the body has a huge thick poly coat- like an m and m- its white too- i leave it be because i like the way it looks.


not recommending poly over lacquer, just saying it will stick. What fender uses a poly base coat? Far as I know they use vinyl touline(sp)


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

I am also hesitant to put lacquer (especially straight NC lacquer) over anything that I am not sure of. Lacquer is an easy material to use, but it is finicky over many other finishes.

If the poly is UV cured and very low in VOC's then it shouldnt be an issue, though.

AJC


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Lowtones said:


> not recommending poly over lacquer, just saying it will stick. What fender uses a poly base coat? Far as I know they use vinyl touline(sp)


hi- sorry-
my thinking on the poly over nitro is that as the nitro shrinks, itll adversely affect the poly top coat which wont shrink- i do believe you that it will stick- again ive never tried it.


in no way proof, or an argument for or against- but i thought this was common knowledge-

info below is from Mark Kendrick master builder @ Fender.


Pardon my typos. I've lost alot of brain cells in my day. Could it be the 'Nitro'. 

The first Fender lap steel was finished in black enamel. When Doc Kauffman and Leo formed K&F guitars in 1945, their original instruments, including the amplifiers, were finished in a lead based, wrinkle coat enamel. A nice shade of Battleship Grey. That was the only color available. After expermenting with different woods other than pine for guitars, they began using nitrocellulose lacquer. They used what was available to the furniture trade at the time. 
The original colors were blonde, sunburst, etc... just like your Grandmas coffee table. 

Custom colors were introduced in 1955. Once again they were enamel. The same material they used in the auto industry. The enamel would not adhere to the stearate based nitocellulose sanding sealer. Acrylic lacquers were then developed by Dupont to be sprayed on material other than metal. "Duco colors". In order for the paint to adhere, Fender began using a Sherwin Williams product called Homoclad. It was a penetrating, heavy solid, oil based sealer used as a barrier coat to to provide better adhesion for their guitars with custom colors. It was applied by dipping the guitar bodies directly into a 55 gallon drum, filled with the product. ALL Fender guitars produced after 1955 used this product until 1967, when Fender began experimenting with polyesters an undercoat. 

By 1968, virtually all Fender guitar products used polyester as an undercoat, including necks. It's a two part product using Methyl Ethyl Ketone(MEK) as a catalyst. The reason the face of the pegheads were not sealed with polyester, is because type 'C' decals (under the finish) would not adhere to the product. While it is true a few guitars may have squeaked by with homoclad, when homoclad wasn't available, they used a Fuller O'Brian product called Ful-O-Plast. PLASTIC!!! It's obvious to me that those necks or bodies were stragglers, having to be reworked for some reason or another and not shipped after the change. 

I'd like to make one thing clear... ALL FENDER GUITARS PRODUCED AFTER 1968 HAD A POLYESTER UNDERCOAT WITH A LACQUER TOPCOAT!!! There is no specific ratio. Enough poly was, and is sprayed to properly fill the grain while preventig a burn through while sanding. 

In 1983, Fender began using polyuerthane as a topcoat. It cured quicker. It had better clarity. It had more depth and gloss, and didn't melt when you accidently spilled 151 on it. Fender then discontinued the use of polyester on the necks. Polyurethane is a 2 part product using a catalyst. 

Fender has continued to use polyester, polyurethane, nitro, homoclad, and Ful-O-Plast. 

Nitro is not a superior finish. An electric guitar doesn't 'breathe' at 120 db. 

My first year at Fender I personally painted approximately 46,000 guitars. I like polyester. I like Nitro colors too. But maybe I'll let the players that use poly (ester or urethane) speak for themselves...


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