# Why tune 1/2 step down?



## Gilles

I see a lot of songs that say tune 1/2 step down. Why not just play one fret up the neck? If you don't have to play open notes, is there a reason to play these songs in the 1/2 step down tuning? 

Am I missing something?


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## zontar

One reason is that with the strings a little slacker it can alter the tone.

Another is it makes the strings easier to bend.

Some people just like to tune that way.

This is assuming they're not playing the open strings as you state.
Of course tuning down a half step does allow for a low Eb.


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## devnulljp

What zontar said.
I Put a set of 13s on my Strat years ago and it sounded great but was really tough to play. Tuning down made it possible to bend without slicing my fingers...
Did it years ago in a band too as it suited the singer's voice better.
It sounds kinda different too, different keys, different voicings, they all sound a bit different.

Can't do it now...don't play often enough so I've got 10s on everything.


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## Gilliangirl

And sometimes it just better fits the original artist's vocal range. For example, if Neil Diamond wants to sing Cherry Cherry in Eb, it's a whole lot easier to tune the guitar down a half-step and play E, A, D, than it is to play Eb, G#, and C#. I tune the guitar down all the time. Peter Mulvey tunes his guitars down one full step then capos at 2, which brings the guitar up to standard tuning, but you get a different tone out of the strings.... they sound sloppier. Try looking at the fretboard as just a 'snapshot' of a much larger musical picture. You can capo up, and you can tune down, to get the exact range and chord shapes that work for you.


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## zao_89

Easier to bend and easier to play with some instruments. I usually tune one full step down, I've broken way too many e strings trying to bend (even a full bend) in standard tuning.


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## Eminor

we starting tuning to Eb a little while back.

a) it sounds just that little bit heavier, w/o obvious downtuning effect

b) easier to bend, which is great since i'm lazy

c) cuts down on the singer whingeing about "the key is too high for me"

d) if it was good enough for Kiss & the Scorpions, it's good enough for us baby. :rockon2:


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## devnulljp

Paul said:


> I never do. I find it confuses the issue for me. If I'm working with anything written, it'll be standard notation, and alternate tunings mess me up.


Hey, try scordatura. The only downside is you end up with no idea what notes you're playing, unless you have a good ear.


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## Mooh

Lots of good answers here.

This topic always amuses me. I just don't know why it matters to anyone what pitch we choose for open strings, except if we're trying to sound like someone else. It's not entirely arbitrary, but there really isn't an issue...as *other* discussion forums have made it out to be...as long as players can play together. All of this is a contrivance of man, so man can change and adapt it.

My first 12 string was a bear to play. It was a cheaper Fender acoustic in 1977. Reducing string tension by tuning down was the answer for me at the time, not being capable then of doing a decent set-up. It also served my singing voice which even as a teen was bass. 

If I didn't gig a lot and teach full time, most of my guitars would be tuned down, (I like tuning down and guaging up) but as it is I have to play with others so I leave most of them in concert pitch. The usual exceptions are the baritone which can be anywhere between B and D depending on how it's strung, an acoustic, and one of my Teles which gives me more growl when dropped a semi-tone.

I came upon tuning down more innocently than most. I started guitar by tuning it to the family piano, which (I soon discovered) my Dad kept tuned a semi-tone low. I don't know his reasons, but he was a gifted writer/composer/singer, also a bass. I wasn't aware at the time that I was tuning down, and when I did figure it out, it didn't matter.

Fwiw, I sometimes hand students a guitar tuned down a semi-tone to make them improvise in what looks like flat or sharp keys. The fret marker shift can mess them up good!

Peace, Mooh.


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## Metal#J#

I've got 6 guitars all tuned to something different (down as far a B and everything in between) and only 1 is in a standard tuning. I can understand how down tuning a couple steps can confuse some people but it's really a matter of shifting your patterns. Once I recognize where one pattern is, the rest fall into place. Considering the type of music I listen to and play, I need to have my guitars down tuned. For example, 311, RHCP, Deftones, As I Lay Dying, Taproot, Bury Your Dead and Protest The Hero (up a half step) all use different tunings than the other. And I don't think there out trying to be more *COOL* by tuning lower, it's just a different style.

:rockon:

J


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## Metal#J#

Paul said:


> Apparently some of the heavier groups are tuning down as much as a 4th. If that's your thing, get a 7 string, or a Baritone guitar, it'll play and sound better.


 Not true........

If I was to put a set of strings meant for a seven string on a six string, leaving off the lightest/first string, how is it any different? It plays exactly the same as far a tension goes and they are the same scale length. The majority of metal bands that tune that low don't use 7 strings because it's not really a necessity unless you want the extended range. As far as my experience goes, 7 strings don't sound or play any better (or worse) for lower tunings. It's a matter of choosing the proper string gauge to keep the optimum tension for the tuning you want. 

J


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## Metal#J#

Paul said:


> I find that once you go more than a tone lower on a "standard" tuned guitar, the compromises necessary to get a decent sounding note make the instrument less desirable to play. There is a reason the string family has four common sizes of instruments. Asking more of a guitar than it is ideally designed to do usually doesn't make the instrument sound better. Different for sure, but rarely better.


 What compromises exactly are you talking about?

My PRS 24 custom is tuned B F#B E G#C# and it is every bit as slick to play as a 7 string if not better for the fact that the neck is smaller and there are more options for open chords. The intonation is perfect as well as the tension and no problems bending so why would have any problems "getting a decent sounding note"?

J


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## Metal#J#

Paul said:


> The compromise is the scale length, the one thing you can't change on a guitar once it is made. To get that low B on a guitar, you have to use a combination of a thicker string, and likely a lower string tension. That same low B on a bass is achieved at the second fret of a string with a 34" scale. That's about 10" longer than a typical Gibson length. The PRS is a wee bit longer than 24", IIRC.
> 
> I find, to my ears, that you don't get enough fundamental out of the note when you try to get a drop D or lower out of a guitar. The first overtone is almost as strong as the fundamental. Through the magic of psychoacoustics, the combination of all the overtones tells us what the fundamental is, even though the fundamental itself isn't sounding very strongly. I prefer the fundamental to be noticably stronger than the first overtone.
> 
> If it works for you, that's great, but I find that the sound of strings tuned low on a guitar, (even if the string gage is kicked up), to be weak.


Dude!!! you've run this one into the ditch a couple of times and missed the point completely.........A low B on a 6 vs a 7 is no different as far as tone or tension goes. They're the same scale length. I don't know why you bring all this other crap into the equation???

BTW my PRS saddles go back as far as 25 1/4" but is considered a 25" scale. An Ibanez 7 string is just a little shorter if there's any difference at all.

J


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## Metal#J#

Paul said:


> No sir, you've missed the point.
> 
> If you are going to tune down a 4th, as some do, I suggested either a 7 string so you don't lose the high notes, or a Baritone Scale guitar, so the low notes sound better. What part of that point have you missed?
> 
> What you call "crap" is part of the physics of the instrument. At a fixed scale length there is a practical limit for how high and how low you can tune an open string note, and still have reasonable tonality and playability. You can only go so thick or thin with a string at a fixed scale length.
> 
> Lower notes sound better with longer strings. If you can't hear that, then perhaps music isn't for you.


Losing the high notes was NEVER the issue (you can keep manipulating your story all you want buddy) and the low notes would sound exactly the same on a 6 as it would on a 7 with the same scale. B is not the limit for a 25" scale either. Where do you get your info from? Maybe you should rethink what you understand to be "the physics of the instrument". I doubt you've even tried to string a 6 string as low as B to know the physics. 

Lastly, Don't be telling me that music isn't for me just because you disagree with what I'm saying. How f*cking mature is that. What are you like 15 or something?:sport-smiley-002:

J


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## Metal#J#

Admitting you're wrong is a hard thing to do.......even if it means compromising your rep...........

So many rock/metal bands play 6 strings tuned as low as Ab. Are you saying that all of them have a compromised tone and they should all be playing 7 strings or baritones? Either they too do not understand the physics of the stringed instrument or maybe it's just that you have no idea what you're talking about? I guess music is just not for them either in your opinion.

J


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## devnulljp

I would never have believed a conversation about tuning your guitar down a semitone could start an argument...and I'm from Scotland, where a punch up is never far away. Thought I was in the TGP tab there for a minute...


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## zontar

I don't like tuning lower than a D, or maybe a Db on the 6th string--I find it loses too much clarity. Even a Db is pushing it.

But hey--tune it how you want to.

Still Paul made some valid points about tension.


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## Milkman

I've heard bands tune down a half step for a few reasons.

One, is to accomodate a singer who has trouble singing covers in the keys they were writen in (a half step really isn't much help in this regard IMO)

Another is to get a heavier "Chug" out of the guitars.

Another yet, is guys who just do it because their rock star heroes do.



Pesonally, and this is just my opinion, I think it makes guitars sound like crap. The lower they're tuned below standard the worse they sound.


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## Mooh

Milkman said:


> I've heard bands tune down a half step for a few reasons.
> 
> One, is to accomodate a singer who has trouble singing covers in the keys they were writen in (a half step really isn't much help in this regard IMO)
> 
> Another is to get a heavier "Chug" out of the guitars.
> 
> Another yet, is guys who just do it because their rock star heroes do.
> 
> 
> 
> Pesonally, and this is just my opinion, I think it makes guitars sound like crap. The lower they're tuned below standard the worse they sound.


Generally I agree, though using mediums and tuning down a semi-tone seems to work for me on my Telecaster. Lots more growl. Some acoustics can sound warmer this way too, though it's hit and miss as most are designed (within the aforementioned compromises) to be tuned to concert pitch. I have an acoustic which loves it so it gets dadgad more often, and another which hates tuning down so I don't.

5 string basses drive me crazy. I love the idea, and I have a fretless and a fretted 5 string which I enjoy playing, but that low B is a pain in the backside from which to get a good fundamental...and the low B doesn't last as long as the rest of the set. I have some sympathy for the folks who design those strings, it must be a bitch to balance all the physics and get tone at the same time. The best 5 string I ever played was a fanfret Dingwall.

Yup, compromise is the order of the day.

Peace, Mooh.


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## guitarman2

Metal#J# said:


> Admitting you're wrong is a hard thing to do.......even if it means compromising your rep...........
> 
> So many rock/metal bands play 6 strings tuned as low as Ab. Are you saying that all of them have a compromised tone and they should all be playing 7 strings or baritones? Either they too do not understand the physics of the stringed instrument or maybe it's just that you have no idea what you're talking about? I guess music is just not for them either in your opinion.
> 
> J



All technical aspects of the discussion aside, it all comes down to each persons idea of good tone. This is an argument that neither side can win. I realize maybe way up in the North country there may not be much to do but time would be better spent playing your dam guitar rather than arguing about it while it sits in the corner.:rockon2:


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## Milkman

Mooh said:


> Generally I agree, though using mediums and tuning down a semi-tone seems to work for me on my Telecaster. Lots more growl. Some acoustics can sound warmer this way too, though it's hit and miss as most are designed (within the aforementioned compromises) to be tuned to concert pitch. I have an acoustic which loves it so it gets dadgad more often, and another which hates tuning down so I don't.


I also use heavier strings on my Teles. I like the sound of them tuned to drop D, but I guess the rest of the guitar being tuned to standard makes the diference to my ears. Also, I rarely play my Teles with a dirty tone and that also makes a big difference.

In general the sound of a whole band tuned down a half step sounds worse than if they had stayed with standard. Just my opinion of course.


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## Metal#J#

guitarman2 said:


> All technical aspects of the discussion aside, it all comes down to each persons idea of good tone. This is an argument that neither side can win. I realize maybe way up in the North country there may not be much to do but time would be better spent playing your dam guitar rather than arguing about it while it sits in the corner.:rockon2:


Like you have any business directing those comments at me. 

You old-school DICKS are all the same..............................

BTW I play my guitars plenty.


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## guitarman2

Milkman said:


> I also use heavier strings on my Teles. I like the sound of them tuned to drop D, but I guess the rest of the guitar being tuned to standard makes the diference to my ears. Also, I rarely play my Teles with a dirty tone and that also makes a big difference.
> 
> In general the sound of a whole band tuned down a half step sounds worse than if they had stayed with standard. Just my opinion of course.



Yes for sure its going to depend on your setup as to whether tuning down will work. I never got in to it but when I find the time I sure would like to play around with tuning down and using different gauges to do it.


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## guitarman2

Metal#J# said:


> Like you have any business directing those comments at me.
> 
> You old-school DICKS are all the same..............................
> 
> BTW I play my guitars plenty.


Sorry if I offended you. My comments were not meant against you although now looking back I see where you may have taken exception to them.
I guess I mainly quoted your post because you were the first to take aggression in this thread. No need to start calling names. Its usually a sign of hitting the limit with your ability to argue a point intelligently.


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## Metal#J#

guitarman2 said:


> Sorry if I offended you. My comments were not meant against you although now looking back I see where you may have taken exception to them.
> I guess I mainly quoted your post because you were the first to take aggression in this thread. No need to start calling names. Its usually a sign of hitting the limit with your ability to argue a point intelligently.


Manipulating facts is a sign you're approaching senility. You're not sorry for any of the comments you made and this was in fact directed at me and only me......."I realize maybe way up in the North country there may not be much to do but time would be better spent playing your dam guitar rather than arguing about it while it sits in the corner."

Why would you assume this??? Like I said I play my guitar plenty. It was an obvious jab!!!


J


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## guitarman2

Metal#J# said:


> Manipulating facts is a sign you're approaching senility. You're not sorry for any of the comments you made and this was in fact directed at me and only me......."I realize maybe way up in the North country there may not be much to do but time would be better spent playing your dam guitar rather than arguing about it while it sits in the corner."
> 
> Why would you assume this???
> 
> 
> J


Like I said. It was just a bit of a joke. Ok maybe not a good one. But I was just trying to give a bit of a light hearted approach to a thread that seems to have gone awry. 
To not accept my apology, I'm thinking your a really hard guy to live with.
I assumed my comment (even though it was a joke) because I've played North Bay, Timmins, Kapuskasing, Hearst etc. There wasn't much else to do with the days except play my guitar. It seemed to be like that in the North country until you hit Thunderbay. Although I admittedly am a city boy.:banana:


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## Jeff Flowerday

1) No need to attack someones location, no need to attack the poster.

2) Don't take things posted in a forum personal.



Thread is locked!


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