# Why Don't Acoustic Guitars Have Adjustable Bridge Saddles For Intonation?



## Guest

Do the players not need proper intonation?


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## ZeroGravity

If I had to take a wild, uniformed guess, I would think that it has to do with the bridge having to transfer vibration energy to the body of the guitar as a soundbox. Adjustable saddles would probably kill the transfer.


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## Guest

ZeroGravity said:


> If I had to take a wild, uniformed guess, I would think that it has to do with the bridge having to transfer vibration energy to the body of the guitar as a soundbox. Adjustable saddles would probably kill the transfer.


Adjustable saddles don't kill.
The bridge already has saddles. 
Adding a way to adjust the already existing saddles if done properly won't hurt the sound.


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## Jim9guitars

I don't have an answer but I have seen several acoustic guitars with "compensated saddles", where the place each string goes is angled or molded to the correct intonation.


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## bw66

My guess is that the problem would be the dampening effect caused by the additional mass of the adjustable saddles. An acoustic guitar relies on the vibration of the top to create sound. More mass equals less vibration.

Edit: Also, decent acoustic guitars come from the factory with good intonation. I guess that you could turn the question around and ask why electric guitars need adjustment... Though I suppose, that if the mass of the bridge isn't really an issue, the why not make the saddles adjustable.


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## 1SweetRide

bw66 said:


> My guess is that the problem would be the dampening effect caused by the additional mass of the adjustable saddles. An acoustic guitar relies on the vibration of the top to create sound. More mass equals less vibration.


Not sure about that. Have you been to an American beach lately? Lots of vibrations going on in some rather large masses.


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## Guest




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## Dorian2

Here's what Ben Crowe says. Be warned he does tend to ramble at times, but he's an awesome nonetheless.


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## Granny Gremlin

You also tend to have more players go higher up the neck on electrics vs acoustics.


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## Milkman

I’d be interested to know a builder’s perspective on the question.

In general terms, and this is just my impression, anything you do to the top of an acoustic guitar may have an impact on the sound.

I don’t even like putting those feedback suppressors (black rubber hole plug) on a guitar if I can avoid it.

It’s a good question. Based purely on the reality that I have never seen a fully adjustable bridge on an acoustic guitar, I suspect there’s a good reason or reasons.


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## Chitmo

Same reason they don’t have a Floyd rose


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## ronmac

A well crafted acoustic guitar will already have a compensation system that consists of a slanted saddle slot and a shaped saddle. As others have noted, putting another mechanical contraption on the saddle is unnecessary and would likely dampen the vibration in this critical area.


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## ronmac

Chitmo said:


> Same reason they don’t have a Floyd rose


I would rather have a Bigsby...


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## Wardo

Player99 said:


> Do the players not need proper intonation?


Too much weight will dampen the top.

To that end, the Martin pyramid bridge is very narrow and light so it does not have much mass on the top. However, it also doesn’t have much surface area for glue so there’s a tendency for more warranty claims with that bridge.

The Martin belly bridge addresses the problem of the bridge flying off and has a wider surface for adhesive but it weighs more; that’s the kind of bridge they use most of the time. The lighter Pyramid bridge is usually a custom shop option.

I am told that a heavier bridge introduces more bass or takes out highs - Which ever way you look at it.

The bridge plate underneath the top is also considered to be part of the bridge mass. Placement of the x brace comes into it as well with regard to base.

As for intonation, I have 2 standard series Martins and one custom shop with a pyramid bridge and intonation on all of them is good. The custom shop is an HD 35 and it does not have as much base as a regular HD 35 with the heavier belly bridge.


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## Wardo

ronmac said:


> I would rather have a Bigsby...


Gretsch Rancher is awesome - thank god ive never seen one in a store bcs I’d probably buy the fuckin thing no matter what it sounded like.. lol


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## Guest

laristotle said:


>


This seems to be a functioning adjustable acoustic bridge.


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## bw66

Granny Gremlin said:


> You also tend to have more players go higher up the neck on electrics vs acoustics.


That's probably true, but doesn't lessen the need for proper intonation on a decent instrument as the manufacturer has no idea who the end user will be.


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## Gilmore Guitars Inc

I'm a builder. I dont even like to put pickguards on my tops.

My answer to the question is....there is no answer. There are no rules when it comes to building a guitar. There are, however, many traditions, preferences and opinions.


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## Granny Gremlin

bw66 said:


> That's probably true, but doesn't lessen the need for proper intonation on a decent instrument as the manufacturer has no idea who the end user will be.


Agreed... but it does make it easier for builders to get away with it (It being using a single slant saddle, vs even a 2 pc slant saddle which is a huge improvement, never mind individually adjustable). As does 'tradition' as brought up by @Gilmore Guitars Inc .










Individual adjustable saddles need not be that much heavier (as per the example posted above as well as the ones I am posting here; don't have to be a tune-o-matic on an acoustic bridge base - yes I have seen such a thing) but what they would be is expensive - until someone mass produces a decent and proven fully adjustable acoustic bridge, they're all going to be one-offs or small batch in-house made for a given shop/company.


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## mawmow

I guess the main reason is tradition. We had classical guitar bridge and then came Martin with archtops derived from cello, then flat tops with bridges somewhere between classical and archtops. Tradition probably came from efficiency : Lightest bridge that could transmit sound to body the best.

Now, heavier paraphernalia (!) around the bridge would most probably alter sound transmission and body vibration : think of the difference you hear when changing Tusk to bone (or other material) saddle or changing string insertion angle on saddle which change string pressure on the body. In addition, this could also cause some weight (balance) issue...

By the way, I would be curious to hear about the effet of different string pressures on sound transmission with the fragmented saddle pic since we generally have only one bridge under a unique saddle or a two pieces saddle.
Add on : I love the bridges pics Granny Gremlin added while I was writing...

Intonation is quite well adjusted on acoustics nowadays. If we have to get better intonation, filing the saddle a bit to move forward or backward (+/- 1 mm forward or backward) the contact point with the string may sometimes be all we need. It is like sliding the bridge a bit on the body of my Godin 5th Avenue to get correct intonation when I change strings. But we are limited to that little mm unless we operate a bridge transposition, if I can say it that way.


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## bw66

Interesting point... those adjustable saddles are a neat idea, but would also require a pretty fancy under saddle pick-up, should one go that route.


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## 1SweetRide

ronmac said:


> I would rather have a Bigsby...


That looks more like an engine crank from a Model T.


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## rollingdam

The 1960's Gibson Doves had an adjustable bridge


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## KapnKrunch

Two thoughts.

First, many electrics used to have no adjustment. Not necessary, if built right and same guage of strings used.

Next, as @Granny Gremlin said: "acoustic players don't often go that high". Might read: "*shouldn't* go that high, cuz its sounds like shit". WTF? No intonation adjustment, but the manufacturer puts a huge cutaway into the body. Oughta be a law...

Now that I have mouthed off I will watch the video @Dorian2 

You know -- speak first, learn later. Lol.


ronmac said:


> I would rather have a Bigsby...


No intonation adjustment here. What wild machine! Never saw it before.


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## Guest

Chitmo said:


> Same reason they don’t have a Floyd rose


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## Jimmagreeen

Guest said:


>


This looks like it would solve all the issues brilliantly. Keen to know if it works well?


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## blueshores_guy

Doesn't address the intonation question, but here's the bridge on my 1971 Framus Texan I bought new in 1971....adjusts for height only, but that was uncommon in those days.


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## knight_yyz

I'm not reading through all the pages. But yes they do. Check out Stew Mac


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## BEACHBUM

Fender did it back in the late 60's. Not sure why it never took hold but as with all other examples my hunch is that because the majority of acoustic players spend the majority of their time below the 5th fret for them intonation is for the most part not an issue. I could intonate this one but because I'm one of those guys I've just never gotten around to it.

67 Palomino


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## Doug Gifford

I imagine, as many have said, that the weight affects the tone. 

It's also about the culture of acoustic guitars. The aesthetic is about elegant and simple. Screws and the like are distinctly inelegant and complicate the appearance of the instrument. Electrics are different that way.


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## butterscotchmusic

Guest said:


> Adjustable saddles don't kill.
> The bridge already has saddles.
> Adding a way to adjust the already existing saddles if done properly won't hurt the sound.


It may add weight though.......would require additional steel on the guitar and therefore weight.


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## gtrguy

knight_yyz said:


> I'm not reading through all the pages. But yes they do. Check out Stew Mac


Not exactly- that’s a tool for locating the saddle(s) on an acoustic bridge- it’s not mean to stay on the guitar.


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