# Gibson's real demographic



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Guys generally over 40 with money. Example...

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Ele...m/Jimmy-Page-Number-Two-Les-Paul/Details.aspx


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## Cort Strummer (Feb 16, 2009)

that is because the younger guys know better.


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## jimmy c g (Jan 1, 2008)

some over 50 without much money too,cause we remember when the company made good guitars you could afford


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Cort Strummer said:


> that is because the younger guys know better.


That's because young guys aren't old enough to be afflicted with nostalgia.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

jimmy c g said:


> some over 50 without much money too,cause we remember when the company made good guitars you could afford


and sold them to buy diapers and strollers.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Beautiful looking guitar. I don't even wanna guess how much that will run though lol. I'd be afraid to ever take it out of the house.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

here's the price...

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-Custom/Jimmy-Page-Two.aspx


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## xbolt (Jan 1, 2008)

I bought my first used Gibson LPC at 16 for $500 and paid for it with my paper route...
Not really impressed by today's Gibson but that doesn't change the love I have for the old Gibsons.

Bought my first used Pontiac GTO when i was 20 with my landscaping job...
Not really impressed with the fact that Pontiac is going down but that doesn't change the love I have for the old musclecars.

Yesterday's cool is still cool and their innovation is still that, regardless of what "accountants/layers" do with todays companies. 
If people have money and spend it on memorobilia, that's ok too...I'm sure Gibson still put out decent stuff. 
Value is another story and maybe another demographic...


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

i wouldn't be surprized if these guitars were snatched up by the japanese collectors...just as the original '59 les pauls were...

the only other people that could afford these would be pro sports players that "dabble" in guitars and certified rock stars like jimmy page et al...

i bet they were originally dreamed up as "stage" guitars while the "real deal" was safely stored at home or in a vault...far too precious/valuable and fragile for the rigors of the road...even heavily guarded rock stars get gear stolen...


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## Cort Strummer (Feb 16, 2009)

its funny because even Les Paul himself said that Les Paul guitars are way overpriced.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

no surprise there.
that's just about what the Billy Gibbons models were and the Jeff Beck model too come to think of it.

they will retail at less than Gibson's list price.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

$15k for "aged", $25k for "aged and signed".

That is one expensive signature.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Get a Les Paul Studio. Then you get the Gibson sound with a pretty reasonable price.


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## Steve Adams (Dec 31, 2009)

nice guitar,

but I noticed that the website is exactly the same as apples, are they owned by one parent company? that would explain the pricing..


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## Cort Strummer (Feb 16, 2009)

with the big iPhone crazy I wouldnt be surprised if Apple bought with all that money Gibson.

I bet the signature model is just a stamp as well.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Well I don't fit the lots of money part--but even if I did, I don't know that I'd pay the kind of money they're asking for some of those things.

The thing is--people are spending that kind of money, so Gibson will keep charging those kind of prices.

I'm glad I got my Gibson used, on sale and back when people seemed to want shredder/superstrat guitars, not Les Pauls--so it was cheap.

And it was modded ,so I got it even cheaper.
I like it since I modded it more myself.
It has little or no collector value as well, but I don't care--I love that guitar. Lots of fun to play, and not a huge investment.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Cort Strummer said:


> its funny because even Les Paul himself said that Les Paul guitars are way overpriced.


Unlike Les Pat's which are underpriced :sport-smiley-002:


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## Phlegethon (Dec 18, 2009)

Robert1950 said:


> That's because young guys aren't old enough to be afflicted with nostalgia.


after reading this thread and taking this comment into consideration I wonder when gibson will be unable to work with the nostalgia angle as players like me who were born in the 80's and will simply play a guitar based on what it does for me (playability, ease of use, tone) without caring one iota as to who's name is on the headstock

that guitar is certainly a looker, but I don't want to own an instrument that needs insurance to allow it out of it's case and actually let it touch air. . or my fingers. it also seems that the older players that are posting in this topic are the ones who want this guitar more than the younger players such as myself which does confirm (to a certain degree) my idea that newer players really have zero brand loyalty 

however, to each their own. the only thing that would actually get my goat is someone buying this guitar and not playing it and keeping it around as a part of a collection . . . .part of the reason that 59 LP's came to be so valued is due to design changes that made them more playable. would irritate me to see it go to waste


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## Hypno Toad (Aug 1, 2009)

I think it might be one of those things like when older guys buy nice old cars.

You buy the expensive thing you always wanted before you had kids ;P


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Younger players have brand loyalty (ibanez, LTD, schecter come to mind), they also have more access to information and get to play a wider range of brands thanks to places like Guitar Center. The younger, more inexperienced guys will also buy into a lot of whatever people on various forums (here, sevenstring.org, HCAF, etc) say, until they form their own opinions. Some forumites actually have had enough experience and knowledge to validate their opinions, but sometimes it is glossed over or unsaid that X person has 30 years experience and has played Y number of Z,M, and O brands and has noticed T trend as a result.

I don't have brand loyalty - I want the guitars that suit my needs at a price I'm willing to pay.


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## Phlegethon (Dec 18, 2009)

Budda said:


> Younger players have brand loyalty (ibanez, LTD, schecter come to mind), they also have more access to information and get to play a wider range of brands thanks to places like Guitar Center. The younger, more inexperienced guys will also buy into a lot of whatever people on various forums (here, sevenstring.org, HCAF, etc) say, until they form their own opinions. Some forumites actually have had enough experience and knowledge to validate their opinions, but sometimes it is glossed over or unsaid that X person has 30 years experience and has played Y number of Z,M, and O brands and has noticed T trend as a result.
> 
> I don't have brand loyalty - I want the guitars that suit my needs at a price I'm willing to pay.


you're the kind of player I tend to see most IRL . . .which is what I was basing my experiences (and my previous post)on. and I would also agree that there's a lot of sheep as well that are willing to drop ten grand on an ibanez guitar that really has no business being over a grand (at best) because of stupidity. I'd like to think that I've got enough experience and logic that I can actually back up what I say with actual facts as opposed to random fanboy/girl ism, which drives me mad. 

but I would agree with you 100 percent and in about ten to fifteen years any half decent ibanez/esp/shecter will be as overpriced as any MIA strat or decent LP costs now. even in my short tenure of being an ibanez player I've seen the prices jump . . and IMO a little unreasonably in light of what one gets (above and beyond the inflation rate issues). but I'll save everyone the rant about prestige ibanezes for a later time


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Cort Strummer said:


> that is because the younger guys know better.


Actually that's because kids THINK they know better...LOL..on everything hwopv


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Sneaky said:


> $15k for "aged", $25k for "aged and signed".
> 
> That is one expensive signature.


LMAO....For sure...and in the ad they don't even say who signs it !! 

Cheers

Dave


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

greco said:


> LMAO....For sure...and in the ad they don't even say who signs it !!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


Hello...Jimmy Page..


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

al3d said:


> Hello...Jimmy Page..


That is what you assume al3d....but they don't state/promise that specifically.
hwopv

I was just joking around..and you took me seriously 

Dave


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

greco said:


> LMAO....For sure...and in the ad they don't even say who signs it !!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


Even if he did...who really cares anyway? It's not worth that much more for a signature...


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i certainly don't have the ability or knowledge that most folks here have, so some may disagree with me. but i've owned alot of guitars over the years.
i have yet to see a convincing argument for why they currently cost what they do. i also feel that a smart, patient buyer can find something for less than $800, maybe even as cheap as $600 that is just as good as any brand new high dollar guitar. 99% of the people listening to you will never know the difference anyhow. 
also, i could be wrong, but my intuition tells me that 95% of the players wouldn't know the difference in the dark, either.


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## Tycho (Jan 3, 2007)

Gibson can still make a great workhorse guitar when it wants to. I bought a CS-336 last month that I'm thrilled with. It wasn't cheap, but it certainly wasn't as expensive as the celebrity replica guitars that Gibson touts so often these days.


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## Cort Strummer (Feb 16, 2009)

cheezyridr said:


> i certainly don't have the ability or knowledge that most folks here have, so some may disagree with me. but i've owned alot of guitars over the years.
> i have yet to see a convincing argument for why they currently cost what they do. i also feel that a smart, patient buyer can find something for less than $800, maybe even as cheap as $600 that is just as good as any brand new high dollar guitar. 99% of the people listening to you will never know the difference anyhow.
> also, i could be wrong, but my intuition tells me that 95% of the players wouldn't know the difference in the dark, either.


This is very true, there is just a stigma around people who gig that they need to use well known brands to be taken seriously. Which is why almost everyone in a decent band has Gibson, Fender, Gretsch, Taylor, Marshal, Orange, insert big name here.

I would put my $600 Cort Pagelli against any LP, however there is something about the feel about a high end crafted guitar so if you can get one go for it. But they are not the be all end all.


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

Let's be real here - Jimmy Page actually signed these 25 guitars, just like he signed 25 No. 1 reissues back in 2004 (2004?). 
They're his actual signature & not stamped. You're only kidding yourself if you believe otherwise.



nonreverb said:


> Even if he did...who really cares anyway? It's not worth that much more for a signature...


First off, I agree with you but...
Those signed No. 1 reissues listed/sold for $25,000. 
Resale on these same guitars was as high as $125,000. 
Some people obviously care.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I'm not one of the young guys around here, but as to brand loyalty--I have 6 different brands--two of them old MIJ brands.
Taro, Granada, Ibanez, Fender, Gibson, Simon & Patrick.

And I came close to having some others instead of a second Ibanez--but I'm happy with that one.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

I am 20 and I fit the younger age group. Even though I agree that Gibsons are overpriced, I am still loyal to the brand.

Why? I honestly do not know. When I was a little kid, all my heroes played Gibsons so I felt that I need to have one.

There's something about the history and prestige of the brand that draws me to it.

Maybe it's just that hype draws me to it. I honestly don't know. But once I hold and play one, I am hooked.

Bottomline, it makes me happy. I don't care what other people say. It is my money after all.

PS. After all that I've said, I still wouldn't buy anything over 5 grand. That is ridiculous. LOL


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

zontar said:


> I'm not one of the young guys around here, but as to brand loyalty--I have 6 different brands--two of them old MIJ brands.
> Taro, Granada, Ibanez, Fender, Gibson, Simon & Patrick.


I don't think brand loyalty is a logical or intelligent state of mind. I think that if you play enough guitars you can eventually distinguish which things will work better (or best) and you can do the calculations as it relates to cost along the way.

I have 3 Gibsons. I would love to have more. They are the epitome of an electric guitar IMO.

I also have:
Fender, G&L, Kramer, ESP/LTD, Ibanez, Jackson, Taylor, Morgan (Larrivee 'spin off' company), Yamaha, Washburn, some from the Godin family, and I have had others in the past as well.


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## Jaggery (Mar 12, 2006)

Did Fender ever come out with a Page singnature, because he did play Teles a lot?

They should come out with a 10K Tele.
9kkhhd


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

If Gibson came out with a Tele then I might want one .... .. I just ain't a Gibson guy.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

Jaggery said:


> Did Fender ever come out with a Page singnature, because he did play Teles a lot?
> 
> They should come out with a 10K Tele.
> 9kkhhd


they did...actually...

here it is...it can be found here...

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaster-discussion-forum/41349-jimmy-page-telecaster-reproduction.html

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?t=764


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Actually he did sign a Bunch of guitars, not that serie....i can't say, but in a copy of his, he was filmed at the CS and was signing a bunch of them by hand..but can't find the clip..it's been a while..




Are Nine said:


> Let's be real here - Jimmy Page actually signed these 25 guitars, just like he signed 25 No. 1 reissues back in 2004 (2004?).
> They're his actual signature & not stamped. You're only kidding yourself if you believe otherwise.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Jaggery (Mar 12, 2006)

For me the rules are simple.

I wont spend more than 1000 on a Fender and more than 2000 on a Gibson.
Give or take a few dollars.

I know for a fact I can get great guitars within that range.

Signature guitars never interested me.

I used to have a an SG standard and sold it because I never played it.
So in general Gibsons also dont interest me.
Only lately I have come to like the Les Paul shape.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

During my first 6 years of playing, I never wanted a les paul and my best friend wanted a les paul more than anything (we both started on strats). I went from a squier strat, to a hamer doublecut, to a gibson LP. My buddy still has his epi fat strat. Turns out I'm a singlecut fan, and he prefers strats.

We made an agreement that our last guitars will be hollowbodies.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Budda said:


> We made an agreement that our last guitars will be hollowbodies.


+1 on that. Been wanting one myself.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

vasthorizon said:


> +1 on that. Been wanting one myself.


I have been drooling over 335's ( ok the only gibson I have been thinking of) even contemplating trading my 66 Tele for one ..


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

al3d said:


> Actually he did sign a Bunch of guitars, not that serie....i can't say, but in a copy of his, he was filmed at the CS and was signing a bunch of them by hand..but can't find the clip..it's been a while..




My approach to signatures is that I only appreciate them in the least if the signer actually built the thing with his carefully honed skills and was then proud enough of his work that he was willing to put his name on it.

Having a celebrity signature has no value to me at all and in most cases I would hate having someone sign something of mine that they did not build, no matter how famous or impressed I am with their talent. I like Jimmy Page, but the only thing I would want him to sign is an album cover.
The only person that I would like to sign my potential Les Paul is the Custom Shop Craftsman who built it.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

shoretyus said:


> I have been drooling over 335's ( ok the only gibson I have been thinking of) even contemplating trading my 66 Tele for one ..


:rockon2:

I'm on the same boat. But I have got to satisfy my Les Paul GAS first before moving on to hollowbodies.

A 339 is alright to me. But nothing beats a full-size 335.


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## Tycho (Jan 3, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> I have been drooling over 335's ( ok the only gibson I have been thinking of) even contemplating trading my 66 Tele for one ..



Make sure you also try the CS-336 and ES-339. Both are smaller than a 335, so they are very comfortable for people who are used to solid-bodies, but they're also quite different from each other.

I have a friend who thought he was GASsing for a 335 until he actually tried a few and decided they were too big.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

I have tried most of the hollowbodies and while the 339 is the best bang for the buck, I would still go with a 335.
There's something about that airy, woody, tone that makes me come back to it.
I also feel more comfortable using a 335 body style and dimension.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Tycho said:


> Make sure you also try the CS-336 and ES-339. Both are smaller than a 335, so they are very comfortable for people who are used to solid-bodies, but they're also quite different from each other.
> 
> I have a friend who thought he was GASsing for a 335 until he actually tried a few and decided they were too big.


I have tried nonreverb's 66 or so 355.... fit's like a damn glove


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

re: the original post...I personally think these expensive signature gtrs are a joke

EC, page, etc all played stock instruments at the time, these are just overpriced marketing crap..but it's working, ppl are buying into it, and buying the gtrs

most of them seem like non-playing executives who may not know any better

but good for them, it's their money

and if the plan is working that's good for gibson as well...I may not agree but I'm sure it's good for business & it was a smart move to tap into that whole market


I saw a magazine called "guitar aficionado" or something, the other day

John McEnroe on the cover...with his lefty '59 LP

it was all about the 40+ old executive gtr collectability market

older guys in suits, full of ads for expensive cars/cigars/boats/planes...high quality glossy paper

it made me nauseous, but obviously there's a market segment with demand for stuff like this

here it is:


http://www.guitaraficionado.com/



I'm surprised '60's muscle cars are going for what they are these days too...


you can buy a used LP studio for $800 that will do the same job

but Jimmy Page never played a LP Studio


as the world turns


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

speaking of John Mcenroe, this is pretty funny...does anyone here remember Bjorn Borg?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwkpYD-_vrk


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

bolero said:


> you can buy a used LP studio for $800 that will do the same job
> 
> but Jimmy Page never played a LP Studio


The "Studio" model was introduced in 1983...

Page is notoriously tight fisted...he was used to using hand-me-down guitars from jeff beck et al...i think the only reason he used was les paul standard was because there was no other (cheaper) version back then...


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## incidentslip (Dec 29, 2009)

I would have to say that the demo is mostly over 40, but then again, in Thunder Bay, our Gibby dealer still moves a fair bit of them for a town of 115k, with a dodgy live music scene at best. Our Epi dealer moves quite a bit of product too, so there must be some jones'ing out there for lesters. While I wish I could snag my old standard back, or a 59 or 60 re-issue, I've found that the PRS SE's do a great job of filling the void till someone drives and emptys a Brinks truck in my livingroom. The signiture celeb. guitars seem a little overpriced, but then again they're geared more at the collectors and speculators than the players. Look at the price of a heavy relic'd masterbuilt strat. When GC in the states made a true to form version of SRV's "Lenny" in a very limited run, it was 5 figures too, and they sold out before the production run was finished. So while there is a market for this stuff, I guess it just ain't for everyone.


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## fret15 (Feb 17, 2006)

I've lately been looking into buying my first expensive guitar, which should be a Gibson LP or some sort of American-made PRS. After looking at a lot of stores, I came to realize that there isn't a guitar I saw that I would spend 3000 bucks on. The one guitar that kept standing out of the pack with its classiness and tight looks is a White Gibson LP Studio. Half the price of the Standards (couldn't find "that burst" I was looking for) or the PRS's (none looked like they were meant to be mine), and still pretty much all the mojo and sound. Anyone got any complaints about Studios or ebony fingerboards? I'm looking for all the feedback I can get.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

I'm a huge Les Paul Studio fan. If I can find them in excellent shape for about $750 I'll take them. They do pop up once in a while at that price.

I definitely have been looking out for a white one and I'd also like the wine red one as well but I only 'want' and don't need them so...

I have replaced the pickups in both of mine (and had the nut replaced on one) but I'm fussy about that stuff.

It's nice to have a new one but it often isn't too much of a wait to have a 'like new' one show up for a great price...and then it feels good to have the extra $$ that you saved and you realize that you would have spent that money for nothing.


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

bolero said:


> re: the original post...I personally think these expensive signature gtrs are a joke


I don't think they're a joke. I own a Pearly Gates reissue and it's just incredible. Mind you, so are my other Les Pauls. The only time I see these as being "a joke" is when they're bought strictly as a financial investment. I didn't buy my Pearly to cash in and I'm not really a ZZ Top fan. I bought it because it's a great guitar and also the best Les Paul I've ever played by this much > <. You pay a lot for a little.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

fret15 said:


> I've lately been looking into buying my first expensive guitar, which should be a Gibson LP or some sort of American-made PRS. After looking at a lot of stores, I came to realize that there isn't a guitar I saw that I would spend 3000 bucks on. The one guitar that kept standing out of the pack with its classiness and tight looks is a White Gibson LP Studio. Half the price of the Standards (couldn't find "that burst" I was looking for) or the PRS's (none looked like they were meant to be mine), and still pretty much all the mojo and sound. Anyone got any complaints about Studios or ebony fingerboards? I'm looking for all the feedback I can get.


Studios are fine guitars and I happen to love ebony boards.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

fret15 said:


> I've lately been looking into buying my first expensive guitar, which should be a Gibson LP or some sort of American-made PRS. After looking at a lot of stores, I came to realize that there isn't a guitar I saw that I would spend 3000 bucks on. The one guitar that kept standing out of the pack with its classiness and tight looks is a White Gibson LP Studio. Half the price of the Standards (couldn't find "that burst" I was looking for) or the PRS's (none looked like they were meant to be mine), and still pretty much all the mojo and sound. Anyone got any complaints about Studios or ebony fingerboards? I'm looking for all the feedback I can get.


New studios have the volume and tone knobs mounted to a PCB board, I learned - I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I'd grab a used one - I used to have one, and it was a great guitar.


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## gearalley (Oct 23, 2009)

First of all let me say how ridiculous Gibson and Fender are introducting a million and one limited editions and series. At what point will they run out of colour/pickguard/neck profile combinations? The new flying V's with the cut-outs and the upside-down one - absolutely ridiculous! And this new Jimmy Page guitar (he plays his in It Might Be Loud) ---how many companies have an artist model for the artist's #2 guitar? A signature backup guitar? Come on!


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## incidentslip (Dec 29, 2009)

gearalley said:


> First of all let me say how ridiculous Gibson and Fender are introducting a million and one limited editions and series. At what point will they run out of colour/pickguard/neck profile combinations? The new flying V's with the cut-outs and the upside-down one - absolutely ridiculous! And this new Jimmy Page guitar (he plays his in It Might Be Loud) ---how many companies have an artist model for the artist's #2 guitar? A signature backup guitar? Come on!


You're completely right there, with this economy in the shambles that it's in, the big brands have virtually no choice but to try to push these high priced "limited"
edition tribute guitars to make bottom line. For the most part, unless you have a real need for a $3K lester, most people will suffice with a $600 Epi. till things even them selves out. So pretty much, the only choice that they have is to gear these guitars at the "haves" who can drop the dime on their fav. player from the past, and hope the economy evens out to the point that the guy who bought the Epi. will follow-up to actually purchase the real deal down the road


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## jcon (Apr 28, 2006)

gearalley said:


> -how many companies have an artist model for the artist's #2 guitar? A signature backup guitar?


Now don't go giving 'em any ideas... I can just see a whole line of Epiphone signature backup guitars on the horizon... COME ON! 

Cheers,
Joe

PS. Man do I ever miss Arrested Development!


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## the_fender_guy (Jul 22, 2008)

Signature series guitars are useless to me.
My guitars are all working guitars.
Paying that much for a guitar that is sold as a collectible just to gig with it would be stupid.
I'd rather spend my money on Geritol LOL


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

To get back on tracker here. The demographic is guys over 40 who before the recession had a hell of a lot of money. Now they just have a real lot of money. These JP #2s are limited edition - 250. There are enough guys out there willing to drop 12 grand on one of 200 VOS models that they will sell all of them. There are only 25 signed Murphy aged guitars - they will go - they are trophy guitars. 

Also, some of you need to get your information on Page's #2 right. It is NOT his backup guitar. It was his second LP. He got it years later than his first LP. It became his number one guitar for playing.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

incidentslip said:


> You're completely right there, with this economy in the shambles that it's in, the big brands have virtually no choice but to try to push these high priced "limited"
> edition tribute guitars to make bottom line.


The "shirts" in the office at hard work.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

gearalley said:


> First of all let me say how ridiculous Gibson and Fender are introducting a million and one limited editions and series. At what point will they run out of colour/pickguard/neck profile combinations? The new flying V's with the cut-outs and the upside-down one - absolutely ridiculous! And this new Jimmy Page guitar (he plays his in It Might Be Loud) ---how many companies have an artist model for the artist's #2 guitar? A signature backup guitar? Come on!



Jimmy Page has a very lucrative endorsement deal with Gibson. over the past few years they have released "signature" versions of his No 1 Les Paul, his double neck EDS1275 6/12 string, the Black Beauty 3 pu model w/bigsby and now the No 2 Les Paul. 
i imagine Gibson may also release a signature version of Page's red LP in the future too.
why not? all of the Page guitars have sold extremely well.
Gibson doesn't care if you are a collector or a player so long as you are buying their products.


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## Stonesy (Oct 7, 2008)

Gibson makes guitars for a wider range of buyers than 40 year old cork sniffers. From $25000 sigs down to the lowly Epiphone. Don't hate em' cause they're beautiful.


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## fret15 (Feb 17, 2006)

Budda said:


> New studios have the volume and tone knobs mounted to a PCB board, I learned - I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I'd grab a used one - I used to have one, and it was a great guitar.


Hmm I'm curious as to how you found that out! I haven't found any other info on that...I guess I should open one up at the store to make sure. Maybe I could take that shit off? Otherwise I'll be looking toward used.


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## zurn (Oct 21, 2009)

I can check mine if you like and post some pics, I have 2008 LP Studio.


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## fret15 (Feb 17, 2006)

zurn said:


> I can check mine if you like and post some pics, I have 2008 LP Studio.


Could be great if you have the time! I'm interested in this PCB-mounted thing.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i hate to be the knuckle dragger here, but i don't know why that's bad. can someone explain, please?


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

Yeah prices on Gibson Les Pauls are pretty high... I just went through a few shops looking for a single cut and ended up with a PRS SC245. From what I'm hearing the high end market is still active but the middle high end... the stuff that is aimed at the average joe is suffering. I was not told $$$ numbers as to what defines those criteria but for sure there is a lot of $4000 to $8000 Les pauls around.


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

gearalley said:


> First of all let me say how ridiculous Gibson and Fender are introducting a million and one limited editions and series.


Well, this is (or was) 2009 and Gibson just released those numerous limited edition 2009 R9s (including signatures) to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the '59 burst. They did a reissue of Page's No. 2 because the actual guitar is a 59 burst. Although, I wish they would have also released a Joe Perry burst, instead.



Stonesy said:


> Gibson makes guitars for a wider range of buyers than 40 year old cork sniffers. From $25000 sigs down to the lowly Epiphone. Don't hate em' cause they're beautiful.


Well said! They're all beautiful. Too much hate when it comes to Gibson guitars.

As for the demographics aspect, I don't exactly fit the mold....I'm 31 years old and I have several newer expensive LPs. I don't buy them for their false ties to Gibson's golden era or because of who played them - I buy them because I like what I hear. when I find a guitar I like, I don't care how much it costs...within reason.


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

Robert1950 said:


> These JP #2s are limited edition - 250. There are enough guys out there willing to drop 12 grand on one of 200 VOS models that they will sell all of them. There are only 25 signed Murphy aged guitars - they will go - they are trophy guitars.


VOS should list for under $8,500 CDN. The Murphy aged (not signed) should be around $11,000 - $12,000. That's how much the other big three "Inspired By" reissues were this year (Oxblood, Bloomfield, Pearly Gates), I don't see why this one would be more. It's not "that bad" when you consider that a regular R9 lists for around $6,000. Still a ton of money, don't get me wrong, but it's not double.


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## HarpBoy (Jun 10, 2009)

Are Nine said:


> Let's be real here - Jimmy Page actually signed these 25 guitars, just like he signed 25 No. 1 reissues back in 2004 (2004?).
> They're his actual signature & not stamped. You're only kidding yourself if you believe otherwise.
> 
> 
> ...


I know Gibson takes a lot of crap for these overpriced investment pieces ($25,000 for a Les Paul??!!!), but don't forget that out of the 25 grand, Mr. Page is probably getting 10 grand of that himself. This is a licensing deal between JP's brand and Gibson, make no mistake about it. On 25 guitars, if JP gets 10K per, that's a quarter million dollars. Not a bad day's work. You better believe that if those one's signed in 2004 by Mr. Page went up by 100K a piece, his agent will be getting a pretty sweet deal for he and his client. This isn't just Gibson doing all the raping here.

Cheers


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

HarpBoy said:


> I know Gibson takes a lot of crap for these overpriced investment pieces ($25,000 for a Les Paul??!!!)


More like - Gibson takes a lot of crap for ALL their overpriced pieces. :smile:




HarpBoy said:


> You better believe that if those one's signed in 2004 by Mr. Page went up by 100K a piece, his agent will be getting a pretty sweet deal for he and his client. This isn't just Gibson doing all the raping here.


I really don't see how Jimmy could get anymore money for what these guitars sold for on the used market. I mean, it's like me buying a car for $10,000 and then selling it to you for $1,500. The car manufacturer has no claim on the $5,000 I made from you. If that were the case, look at real '59 Les Pauls - they sold for around $275 back in 1959 and for as much as $400,000 more recently. Are you saying that Gibson can go after the current owners of these original bursts and get a piece of the pie? Obviously, not.

Cheers & speaking of bursts... :smile:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzRxNS4jdc4​[/YOUTUBE]


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## crazydiamond (Dec 17, 2009)

jimihendrix said:


> here's the price...
> 
> http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-Custom/Jimmy-Page-Two.aspx


Holy shit! For that kind of money it better play itself. I have just never understood the attraction to 'signature' model guitars, perhaps that's just me. From a collector/fan standpoint, maybe. I love Led Zeppelin and Jimmy Page's playing but I couldn't justify the price, even if I had it.


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## Tycho (Jan 3, 2007)

The thing that cracks me up about these ad campaigns is that they try to create the impression that you're getting the next best thing to a real '59. You're not. There is no next best thing to a real '59 ('except a real '58 or '60). You're getting a brand new Standard, albeit one that's made (one hopes) to the highest Custom Shop standards. But is that really worth $11K to $25K?


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

all you whiners who can't afford one are too funny.
get a better job! 9kkhhd

Gibson's Custom shop guitars, signature guitars and all the rest are luxury items. its not much different than high-end sports cars. some folks can't understand why anyone would pay $200,000 for a (insert name of flashy penis-compensation-mobile here). but if you own one you can't imagine going back to driving a volkswagen.

buying a more expensive guitar does not make you a better musician.
but if it makes you happy and enjoy playing more, then its worth every penny.


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## Tycho (Jan 3, 2007)

Actually, when I wanted my own "59", I cheerfully spent $5K on a Guitar Clinic replica, and last year I spent almost as much on a beautiful Fender Custom Shop Tele.  So I'm pretty sure that's not the issue. I could always sell my other guitars and use the proceeds to buy the Page.

But why on earth would I ever want to do that?


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## Steve Adams (Dec 31, 2009)

all I say, its "instert name" here's money! good on em!


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## Cort Strummer (Feb 16, 2009)

what gets me is a guitar that cost no more then $500 in '59 now cost $10,000 and it is probly made with illegal woods to boot.


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

Cort Strummer said:


> what gets me is a guitar that cost no more then $500 in '59 now cost $10,000 and it is probly made with illegal woods to boot.


What has that got to do with anything? Gibson sells the Les Paul model based a lot on the history & name.

It doesnt matter is another guitar company makes a better quality guitar, for much less money. The fact is, a lot of people want THE guitar (Gibson) that their hero's played and still play.

I would never spend that kind of $$ for a signature... would I buy a good custom shop Gibson? Sure. But no way am I going to pay an additional $10K to $15K to have it signed by Gibbons or Page, no matter how much I love both of their playing & music.

Far too many of us still place a dollar value on having a particular name on the headstock. As long as that holds true, companies like Fender and Gibson will sell expensive models based on who has played them.

The Andy Summer's tele was a perfect example for me. I love Summers' - and would kill for one of the replicas... but not for $10K. 

AJC


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## Cort Strummer (Feb 16, 2009)

the best part is, is that if they are in the area for say a concert and they have a meet and greet that you need a pass for they would sign it for free ha ha.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

six-string said:


> all you whiners who can't afford one are too funny.
> get a better job! 9kkhhd
> 
> Gibson's Custom shop guitars, signature guitars and all the rest are luxury items. its not much different than high-end sports cars. some folks can't understand why anyone would pay $200,000 for a (insert name of flashy penis-compensation-mobile here). but if you own one you can't imagine going back to driving a volkswagen.
> ...


+1.

I find anti-Gibson sentiments 99% of the time stem from someone who wants one but can't afford to buy one. When you can get into a used Gibson for about $500 it seems to somehow come down to a desire to get a more expensive model at a low price. I'm sure the same happens with Fender, PRS, etc. I just don't hang out on their forums.

Gibson's demographic certainly isn't built on these guitars, it's built on the Epi line, the faded line, the Studios and the Specials. Their 'bread and butter' is the lower priced models they sell like popcorn.

High end flagships like these sigs don't keep the lights on. But they are exceptional instruments, and they become collectible. And they keep the brand desirable.

The fact that most of us can't afford them doesn't mean there is something wrong with the concept. There's a fellow on the mylespaul forums that is just pissed at GC because he ordered the aged and signed JP#2 ($20K) and GC didn't get enough of them to deliver it. There are obviously more than enough people willing to step up and buy a $20K guitar.

'Les Paul Nostalgia' is a funny thing. For me, it's Clapton and Bloomfield. To someone a bit younger, it's Duane and Page. Somewhat younger, it's Randy Rhoads. Younger still, it's Slash. Soon it may be Bonamassa.


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## Cort Strummer (Feb 16, 2009)

Who is going to play a $25k guitar signed by whoever? it is going to either sit on a wall and collect dust or sit in a case and never see the light of day, it will never be played. IMO that kind of person doesnt deserve to own a guitar in the first place. 

I said part of this before but I find it funny when people defend the high prices when Les Paul himself says that they are overpriced. Because the Les Paul was originally designed as a cheap to produce good guitar that anyone could afford. Now a bare bones Gibson starts at 1K. And as for people are willing to pay the prices just enforces what I said at the beginning of this thread... Young people know better, Zakk Wylde is my guitar hero but there is no way I would ever pay $6k for his Signature series... I would how ever pay $6k for his actual guitar but that is only because I know that it is different from the re-issue.

As for the car and guitar comparison it is way off. A $200K car like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Bentley, Boogotti, etc. Does not drive the same as a $15k+ car (Chevy, Ford, VW, Audi, BMW, Benz, etc). While on the other hand a $25K guitar plays the same as a $500 copy.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

why do you assume someone who buys an expensive guitar doesn't play it?



> IMO that kind of person doesnt deserve to own a guitar in the first place.


WTF? Who are you to say that? Even if someone does want to buy one to put it in a glass case, so what?

It's not just Gibson that makes, and sells, expensive guitars. If you can't tell the difference, great, you're happy where you are.


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

Cort Strummer said:


> While on the other hand a $25K guitar plays the same as a $500 copy.


Really?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Cort Strummer said:


> IMO that kind of person doesnt deserve to own a guitar in the first place.


What are the qualifications for guitar ownership? 

Dave


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)




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## Cort Strummer (Feb 16, 2009)

Well you if you are going to buy a 25K signed guitar and play it (I dont mean play 3 chords then hang it up) then I would have to call you an idiot, why risk damaging it?

Yes really as long as the $500 guitar is setup properly...

As for qualifications for owning, IMO I hate collectors that dont play or they buy something just for the sake of having it. However if you play and collect that is cool, because another pet peeve are people who are always selling\trading guitars.

I guess my biggest problem with guitars like this is it is normally just rich collectors that don't even play that buy these. Because at 10-25 grand it is definitely not a players guitar.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Cort Strummer said:


> Because at 10-25 grand it is definitely not a players guitar.


Well, "bursts" are being played by pros around the world. At half a million each, are they not players' guitars?

It all comes down to the owners preference. He spent the money, therefore he gets to decide what the fate of that guitar will be.

Everything else is just your opinion.

If you don't want a high-dollar / signed Gibson, then don't buy one. There are others who want to. Do they spend your money when they buy one? No. Live and let live.


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## Cort Strummer (Feb 16, 2009)

As for pros playing $500k "bursts" I am sure that if not all of them, that most of them had them before they demanded the high price tag. which is why they still play them because they are only out the original price tag if anything. Because a lot of pros dont look at the resale value of their guitars, only the druggies that frequent pawn shops.


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

... and I thought that the angry envious emo fad was over hwopv


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2010)

vasthorizon said:


> It all comes down to the owners preference. He spent the money, therefore he gets to decide what the fate of that guitar will be.
> 
> 
> > +1 - that's it right there.
> ...


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

Cort Strummer said:


> As for the car and guitar comparison it is way off. A $200K car like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Bentley, Boogotti, etc. Does not drive the same as a $15k+ car (Chevy, Ford, VW, Audi, BMW, Benz, etc). While on the other hand a $25K guitar plays the same as a $500 copy.


Those $500 copies are way overpriced. They play just like those $75 guitars sold in department stores. 

In fact, I'm selling my two Custom Shop Gibsons and buying the First Act guitars that they sell at Toys R'Us... I've had it with Gibson's pricing model.

:rockon2:


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

Cort - you shouldnt care what OTHERS do with their money.... and to me, the fact is, I dont care what a company tries to sell guitars for (after all it is a business, and businesses are in the game to make money..)

I can see paying $10K for a great guitar. Even $20K - if its within your budget. My beef is paying an extra $10K for a signature... like an autograph. Then again, maybe some people value a sig that much...?

But do not suggest you need to "prove" your musicianship in order to buy an instrument... No one has the right to say who can buy or play what.. if you have the cash, you can buy it, right? WHo are you or I to say someone isnt "worthy"...?

Some day I will own a great genuine Gibson LP. Right now, I have a lot of my own copies that play great and mean more to me. But I know some day I will see one, and buy it because down in my heart I want a Gibson too :smile:

AJC


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

ajcoholic said:


> Some day I will own a great genuine Gibson LP. Right now, I have a lot of my own copies that play great and mean more to me. But I know some day I will see one, and buy it because down in my heart I want a Gibson too :smile:
> 
> AJC


When you buy your Gibson, will you consider selling me your most recent single-cut ?

Cheers

Dave


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

At those prices, they can't be selling *blues* guitars! 9kkhhd

Peace, Mooh.


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

greco said:


> When you buy your Gibson, will you consider selling me your most recent single-cut ?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


Probably not.. its a keeper :smile:

AJC


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

Cort Strummer said:


> As for the car and guitar comparison it is way off. A $200K car like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Bentley, Boogotti, etc. Does not drive the same as a $15k+ car (Chevy, Ford, VW, Audi, BMW, Benz, etc). While on the other hand a $25K guitar plays the same as a $500 copy.


Autograph BS aside - if you can't tell the difference between a cheap guitar and an expensive one, consider yourself fortunate because you will have saved yourself a ton of money in the future. That's not an insult, I'm being sincere.


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

jimihendrix said:


> they did...actually...
> 
> here it is...it can be found here...
> 
> ...



Actually if you read those threads.......it's not a Fender.


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

Cort Strummer said:


> what gets me is a guitar that cost no more then $500 in '59 now cost $10,000


Well my parents bought their house in 59' for $9000. What do you think that house by the Scarborough Bluffs would cost and sell for today?



Are Nine said:


> if you can't tell the difference between a cheap guitar and an expensive one, consider yourself fortunate because you will have saved yourself a ton of money in the future.


Yes kids.......listen to what Uncle Are Nine says......it's true.....never ever get to know the difference between a cheap guitar and an expensive one. 
It will only bring you financial grief. 

I know because.........I do the know the difference and I'm broke.


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## powrshftr (Sep 8, 2006)

If you've ever played a custom shop Gibson like an R6 or R9 LP,then picked up a $500 Epiphone LP,you sure as HELL know the difference,unless you are wearing mittens and earmuffs....aside from the setup being better on the high-end Gibsons,they are just made from better materials,in the USA,by adult craftsmen.On the other hand,the Epi is made from more affordable materials,by a kid in Samick's sweatshop in Korea.
In the end you get what you pay for,and a pricier guitar will play better,be more resonant,and just be better overall....not knocking the Epi's...they are great guitars for the money,without a doubt,but it's just frickin' goofy to think that a $500 guitar will be the equal of a $5000 guitar;the price difference is there for a reason.......
PS:Hate me if you want to,but you know it's cause I'm soooooo frickin' RIGHT!:wave:lol


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

powrshftr said:


> If you've ever played a custom shop Gibson like an R6 or R9 LP,then picked up a $500 Epiphone LP,you sure as HELL know the difference,unless you are wearing mittens and earmuffs....aside from the setup being better on the high-end Gibsons,they are just made from better materials,in the USA,by adult craftsmen.On the other hand,the Epi is made from more affordable materials,by a kid in Samick's sweatshop in Korea.
> In the end you get what you pay for,and a pricier guitar will play better,be more resonant,and just be better overall....not knocking the Epi's...they are great guitars for the money,without a doubt,but it's just frickin' goofy to think that a $500 guitar will be the equal of a $5000 guitar;the price difference is there for a reason.......
> PS:Hate me if you want to,but you know it's cause I'm soooooo frickin' RIGHT!:wave:lol


I don't disagree about the quality and materials at all. But, to some extent I do disagree about the sound. I will never claim to be any kind of expert, but I have owned over 40 guitars from high end to low end.  

To use Teles for an example, I have owned 10 different Teles from MIA to MIJ to MIM to Squire. The one I have kept was a simple MIM Natural Ash. While it didn't have the specs of the others, it just plain sounded better to my ears.

Same with the 2004 Epi SG I just bought. When it comes down to it, even when I am hunting a budget guitar, if I don't feel it's living up to my needs sound and playability wise (or can't see it being easily modded to get that) I will spend the extra money for the 'better' guitar. This Epi is one of the best playing, looking, and sounding SG's I have played (speaking or resonating, you wouldn't believe how it resonates acoustically). 

There is a whole lot of difference construction wise between the plank guitars I tend to play and LP's. But my favourite sounding and playing LP's over the years have actually been Studios. Not the fancy high end stuff.

So it echos what other people have been saying really about buying what you want. But with my own definition of what 'better' is. Better isn't always the most expensive option IMO.


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## the_fender_guy (Jul 22, 2008)

If somebody wanted to spend that much money on a guitar I'm not going to complain about it. At that price, and with a signature pushing the value up considerably, that guitar has become an investment. It's no longer a debate between owning an Epi or a Gibson Les Paul. It's about watching the value increase increase on your investment much like buying a piece of Art.
As far as deciding to buy the best guitar to fit your needs within your budget, if you want a Gibson Les Paul and want to spend the money then why not go for it.
Whatever guitar you own I hope you're inspired every time you play.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

the_fender_guy said:


> If somebody wanted to spend that much money on a guitar I'm not going to complain about it. At that price, and with a signature pushing the value up considerably, that guitar has become an investment. It's no longer a debate between owning an Epi or a Gibson Les Paul. It's about watching the value increase increase on your investment much like buying a piece of Art.
> As far as deciding to buy the best guitar to fit your needs within your budget, if you want a Gibson Les Paul and want to spend the money then why not go for it.
> Whatever guitar you own I hope you're inspired every time you play.


I hear this argument from Gibson fans a lot, but does the value of these actual increase that much nowadays? Especially when they pump out so many signature and LE models? EG I have heard people mentioning they bought those reverse vee's as a collectable. I just can't imagine those or most other models of those 'guitars of the month' ever being considered that collectable/valuable. Something being a limited run doesn't guarantee it's going to be a collector's item.

The same can be said about a lot of current general production models Gibsons, and Fenders for that matter. They may retain their value to a degree, but I don't think many of them will increase in value.

If I was looking for a collector's piece, I'd buy one nice vintage one rather than taking a chance on all these new generation LE models.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

jimihendrix said:


> here's the price...
> 
> http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-Custom/Jimmy-Page-Two.aspx


For the regular person, that is nuts to pay or even dream about owning one of those guitars. Then there are those with lots of money and don't think anything of going to a casino and dropping 10K at the gaming tables and call it fun.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

i want 1 of each! :smile:


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## Kaillen (Jan 11, 2010)

I personally think there isn't anything special about that guitar whatsoever. It uses a mahogony back which produces muddy but present lows, figured maple (doesn't specify hard or soft - it makes a huge difference) and some decent pickups.

You are far better off finding a decent luthier and custom building your own guitar instead of wasting money on a name. Much like computers, it's the components that make the machine, not the name. 

For the price of this guitar, you could build a guitar out of the most expensive wood you can find (not that it would give you the best tone), put beautiful inlays across the neck and pimp out the guitar completly with all the best equipment. 

It's too bad that guitar has become less about the quality of sound and more about trying to be cool.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Kaillen said:


> I personally think there isn't anything special about that guitar whatsoever. It uses a mahogony back which produces muddy but present lows, figured maple (doesn't specify hard or soft - it makes a huge difference) and some decent pickups.
> 
> You are far better off finding a decent luthier and custom building your own guitar instead of wasting money on a name. Much like computers, it's the components that make the machine, not the name.
> 
> ...


When referring to the costs, it's more that you can see why there would be a cost difference between say a Fender, and a high end Gibson. There is just more to the construction. Inlay, binding, maple cap etc.

But without a doubt, you are paying a premium for a name with both brands. And with the sig models you are paying a premium for a name on another name lol.


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

If I hade one the first thing I would do is have it reliced.........and for those of you who require an autographed guitar.........I will gladly sign your guitar(s) for you..........my name or who evers.........ship me the guitar(s) and please include return shipping costs...............cheers, Gerry


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## The Grin (May 5, 2009)

The only brand loyalty i have belongs to Minute Maid Orange Juice. When i was 18 and going to school, I stopped by a store everyday on my way home and played EVERY guitar they had. I was on first name bases with them when I bought my Ibanez SA 220 for about $600. Switched the pickups and brought down the floating bridge and its now my #1 guitar. To DATE the only other guitar i have ever had that kind of rush with and regretted not buying was the ESP K-500 at $700 (discontinued to my knowledge). 

The ONLY way i will ever spend more then $1000 is for a guitar made JUST FOR ME.. A full blown custom.. Paint, pick-ups, bridge, neck and inlays. Other wise im fine with buying pawnshop crappers and building them up. Which brings me to my next point.



cheezyridr said:


> my intuition tells me that 95% of the players wouldn't know the difference in the dark, either.


I went to a Bass Clinic with Victor Wooten and the philosophy behind his playing was indeed mind altering. He has a camp I heard about many times before (mostly from the same person) and what he does there is blindfold you more then half the time. One exercise is everyone leaves their instrument in a room and go in blind folded to find it. One guy found his on his first try, he then broke down and cried. 

The part that sent me flying is when he strummed his bass once to show everything is on and said "this is the sound my bass makes"... (Silence). "This is a tool YOU use to make music. Its you that makes the music". At this point it just seemed to be irrelevant to own a $60 000 guitar, bass or cab.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

I used to be a minute maid fan, now i'm a tropicana LOTS OF PULP fanatic...best orange juice ever!! :rockon2:


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## TonyD (Jan 11, 2010)

One significant difference I've noticed between the higher priced guitars and the lower end models is the electronics more than the build. Now big companies are using CNC machines to manufacture the necks, bodies and fretboards so the precision is quite high for these parts. The trouble is they are putting in electronic components that break down easily, are not military spec (like the old days) and actually choke the tone with super thin wire and weak connections. I've changed out the wiring, pots, jack and caps on many over-seas guitars and the tone change is dramatic in many cases. Stock pickups are also an issue. Why Epiphone chooses to put in a 14k bridge pickup on their Casino archtop model is beyond comprehension! I'm also not a big fan of plastic nuts.


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## HarpBoy (Jun 10, 2009)

powrshftr said:


> IOn the other hand,the Epi is made from more affordable materials,by a kid in Samick's sweatshop in Korea.


So I'm assuming you've been on a tour of Samick's "sweatshops" in Asia? This is an overused, inaccurate, cliche that I find kind of offensive. The good people who work for these companies take as much pride in their job as you or I do. Can we give the whole "kids in sweatshops" thing a rest? These companies are every bit as well equipped, both with machinery and people, as many companies here at home. Let's lose the prejudice, people!

<end rant>

Cheers


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## TonyD (Jan 11, 2010)

HarpBoy said:


> So I'm assuming you've been on a tour of Samick's "sweatshops" in Asia? This is an overused, inaccurate, cliche that I find kind of offensive. The good people who work for these companies take as much pride in their job as you or I do. Can we give the whole "kids in sweatshops" thing a rest? These companies are every bit as well equipped, both with machinery and people, as many companies here at home. Let's lose the prejudice, people!
> 
> <end rant>
> 
> Cheers


 no different than any factory i've worked in...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab3hrvf_V9o&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2uyUxkr1e8&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZq44RNcZMI&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFFvrHHct70&NR=1


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I have found, through all my trials and tribulations a big difference in the Strats I have owned vs the Gibsons. I have had many strats over the years and it was not until I got the EC Strat and then the Beck strat that I really noticed the difference. I have had MIJ, MIM and standard US. The ones that I would put above all are the EC and Beck and the 90's MIJ I had. I wish I had never gotten rid of that one now after owning all the others because now I realize that one was special.

But on the Gibson side I just dont feel it as much. I actually had a Epi LP for a while and after changing out all the guts that guitar was great. I have not had another LP that I have dug as much as my Heritage Gary Moore though and its as close to a perfect LP as I will probably ever own.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

This thing is still being bickered about?

Buy the guitar you can afford that does what you want. Some people can afford more than others. Some people are *very fortunuate* that they can find their dream guitar in a production model. When it comes to singlecut guitars, I can't own a production model - it just won't have all the specs I want (that super accessible neck heel just doesn't happen). As far as superstrats of various design, strats, and tele's - chances are I can find one model that I like, and play enough of them to find the one that sings back to me.

On the one hand yes, I enjoy owning top quality gear that comes with some bragging rights. On the other hand, I'm jealous of the guys who've spent 1/4 of what I've spent, and love their rigs just as much, and get a great sound.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

Budda said:


> , I can't own a production model - it just won't have all the specs I want (that super accessible neck heel just doesn't happen).


you should try a Collings electric.
has the most comfortable and accessible neck heel you could imagine. :smile:


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

TonyD said:


> no different than any factory i've worked in...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab3hrvf_V9o&feature=channel
> 
> ...


Great videos and comments Tony. I have worked in many factories including: tire production, polymer processing, paper products (yes, cardboard boxes!!) and metal products production (small welding shop). That factory looks like it is very well set-up, clean, and workers look like they are setting their own pace.

In other words...modern production facility.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

six-string said:


> you should try a Collings electric.
> has the most comfortable and accessible neck heel you could imagine. :smile:


Does it have this kind of heel: 










On this kind of body:










at 8lbs? If so, I am Veeery interested.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Les Paul Axcess?


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

Budda said:


> Does it have this kind of heel:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



basically. yes. 
sorry i don't have a good enough camera to show you but i can vouch for it.
i recently bought a Collings City Limits deluxe and it has a LP style body that is on or under 8 pounds (definitely lighter than any of the Les Pauls I own) and has a very smooth neck with a beautiful transition at the heel. i have also played the Collings 290 which is similar to the Les Paul Special slab-style body as opposed to carved arch top. 
it also has the same type of neck/heel and is very comfortable for reaching all the way up the neck.
i don't think i am exaggerating when i say that Bill Collings electric guitars are currently some of the best built production guitars out there right now. amazing attention to detail. fine woods, great electronics and parts and very high level of quality control on the finished product.


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## TonyD (Jan 11, 2010)

this might help:

http://www.12fret.com/new/Collings_CL_Deluxe_Amber_Sunburst_pg.html


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## Guest (Jan 14, 2010)

Its a piece of wood boys. My favorite sounding axe right now is my Reverend Buckshot with the noiseless Fender Tele pickup. The pickup totally transformed this guitar. IMO price isn't always the determining factor in sound quality. There are so many variables as there are so many hearing profiles. What sounds good to him sounds like crap to the other. A lot like women if you ask me. He likes em plump , the other bone thin. I remember this kid in this town who use to play a friggin Fernades on stage and sounded amazing. Then he got this idea of dumping that thing for a Heritage. In my mind via the ears, his magic was gone although he was playing a seemingly much better guitar. The junker just sounded more alive to me, the heritage so baritone like. The nice thing about this day an age is quality control and CNC machining. They can actually cut a good neck on a consistent basis out of decent wood for a cheap price. That wasn't possible 30 years ago. The older folks still think cheap means a banana neck and sud-standard electronics. Things have changed. You can get fairly decent sound and playability for fractions of what it used to cost three decades ago because of technology.


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## the_fender_guy (Jul 22, 2008)

As an older folk here I disagree with you. We don't all think a cheaper guitar "means a banana neck and substandard electronics" (well maybe in some cases substandard electronics). There are some low cost instruments that are fine guitars.
And on that note I disagree with your assessment of Fernandes as junkers. Some of the Fernandes guitars I've played were well made instruments.
Some of the older cheap guitars back in my prehistoric times were awful and some offered unique tonal qualities that were not always desirable but in the right hands could be quite musical.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.



konasexone said:


> Its a piece of wood boys. My favorite sounding axe right now is my Reverend Buckshot with the noiseless Fender Tele pickup. The pickup totally transformed this guitar. IMO price isn't always the determining factor in sound quality. There are so many variables as there are so many hearing profiles. What sounds good to him sounds like crap to the other. A lot like women if you ask me. He likes em plump , the other bone thin. I remember this kid in this town who use to play a friggin Fernades on stage and sounded amazing. Then he got this idea of dumping that thing for a Heritage. In my mind via the ears, his magic was gone although he was playing a seemingly much better guitar. The junker just sounded more alive to me, the heritage so baritone like. The nice thing about this day an age is quality control and CNC machining. They can actually cut a good neck on a consistent basis out of decent wood for a cheap price. That wasn't possible 30 years ago. The older folks still think cheap means a banana neck and sud-standard electronics. Things have changed. You can get fairly decent sound and playability for fractions of what it used to cost three decades ago because of technology.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

I guess there is a market for them.

From the 12th Fret : *NEW TODAY *and *SOLD*

http://www.12fret.com/new/Gibson_Jimmy%20Page%20LP%20No%202.html


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

most of those were sold out on pre-order.
very few (i believe less than 10) were sent to Yorkville who are the Canadian Gibbo distributor.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Are Nine said:


> Autograph BS aside - if you can't tell the difference between a cheap guitar and an expensive one, consider yourself fortunate because you will have saved yourself a ton of money in the future. That's not an insult, I'm being sincere.


+1

Many years ago, I unfortunately thought it would be fun to teach myself to know good scotch from bad. So I did. I can still drink any scotch (there's no such thing as bad scotch, IMO, just some aren't as good as others) but I feel like if it isn't Langavolin or such, I know I'm missing something. It isn't as good as it could be. Same with guitars, if you've never had it, you probably won't miss it.

I've had friends since try to 'educate' me on good wine. I persistently resist. Sometimes it's good to keep the status quo. Perhaps some guitar players should do the same?


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

six-string said:


> most of those were sold out on pre-order.
> very few (i believe less than 10) were sent to Yorkville who are the Canadian Gibbo distributor.


Hmmm... I notice Faracaster has been absent from the forum lately.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

I just got my latest Gibson yesterday. A white Les Paul Studio with ebony fingerboard. I have a special set of pickups ordered for it and all of the hardware. This particular one was just the body/neck that had been stripped of all of its hardware and everything.

I love me some Gibsons.


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