# Buzz from tone controls on LP after bridge/tail piece replaced.



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I just put a new bridge and tail piece on a knock off LP and now get a buzz when the tone controls are above 1. It does this in every amp, not just one. It does not do this when I use my wireless system, only when I use a cable. Turn the tone control to 0 with cable, no buzz. Turn the tone control to2 or higher, instant buzz. Happens on both pickups, not just one. I don't know electrics, so just throwing new pots in comes to mind, but don't want to throw the money into pots if they aren't the issue. Weird thing is I don't recall this before the bridge and tail piece. Nothing spectacular. A roller bridge from Wilkinson/Musiclily and the same for the tail piece. It's weird that it doesn't happen when wireless. Anybody have any ideas?

It is not a hum, it is a buzz. I pulled on each wire to check if it was still soldered and found none loose. I figured a ground issue. I don't know enough to know if wireless bypasses a grounding issue.


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## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

did you replace any of the threaded bushings set into the body? if so there is a chance that one of them had a ground wire for the strings that the bushing made contact with. it is possible that the new bushing (if you changed them) is a bit shorter or that the ground wire shifted and is not making contact.


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

It is not a pot issue, you make a small mistake in your upgrade building


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Bridge ground wire sounds like especially if you swapped the post inserts.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Run an alligator clip jumper from ground to the bridge. Does it go away?


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

There was no grounding wire to the posts that I can see nor saw. I checked all the wires in the control area under the cover. None had any looseness to them. All were snug like they were attached to something. If it's a ground issue, why does it go away when using a wireless system? Clear as a bell when using wireless.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Verne said:


> There was no grounding wire to the posts that I can see nor saw. I checked all the wires in the control area under the cover. None had any looseness to them. All were snug like they were attached to something. If it's a ground issue, why does it go away when using a wireless system? Clear as a bell when using wireless.



I can't explain that, but if there's no ground wire connected to the posts or otherwise somehow to ground the strings, that's a problem.

Just try the jumper. It would take a couple of seconds.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

I did something similar with my knock off LP. I bought the Solo “Chrome LP package” (great kit for the money by the way) and totally forgot about the ground wire. On one of the holes you put the bridge posts in, usually the one closest to the cavity, if you look inside it will go all the way through. Just enough for a ground. It has to sit up and touch the post. Think how the bridge pins on an acoustic pinch the string in the hole. Wedge the ground wire between the wall of the drilled hole, and the post. As you push the post down, it will squeeze and make contact. Unlike the claw on a Strat style, you shouldn’t have to solder. 
If you don’t recall doing that during assembly, I’d bet (gentleman’s bet, handshake only… or fist bump) that’s the cause.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

SWLABR said:


> I did something similar with my knock off LP. I bought the Solo “Chrome LP package” (great kit for the money by the way) and totally forgot about the ground wire. On one of the holes you put the bridge posts in, usually the one closest to the cavity, if you look inside it will go all the way through. Just enough for a ground. It has to sit up and touch the post. Think how the bridge pins on an acoustic pinch the string in the hole. Wedge the ground wire between the wall of the drilled hole, and the post. As you push the post down, it will squeeze and make contact. Unlike the claw on a Strat style, you shouldn’t have to solder.
> If you don’t recall doing that during assembly, I’d bet (gentleman’s bet, handshake only… or fist bump) that’s the cause.



I think you're right and running a temporary jumper as I suggested will identify that.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

If there is no wire, nor was, how do I run one and where do I attach it? This is the first LP I've worked on, so this is new to me.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Verne said:


> If there is no wire, nor was, how do I run one and where do I attach it? This is the first LP I've worked on, so this is new to me.



There has to be a ground or there's no circuit (no sound). Clip one end to a ground wire soldered to the back of one of the pots. Clip the other end to the bridge or even to one of the strings. The buzz should disappear or at least get much quieter.

That will tell you if the problem is a missing or broken ground wire. Once you know that you'll at least know what's wrong.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Verne said:


> If there is no wire, nor was, how do I run one and where do I attach it? This is the first LP I've worked on, so this is new to me.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Verne said:


> There was no grounding wire to the posts that I can see nor saw. I checked all the wires in the control area under the cover. None had any looseness to them. All were snug like they were attached to something. If it's a ground issue, why does it go away when using a wireless system? Clear as a bell when using wireless.


No cable with wireless, the cable from guitar to amp is an antenna, picking up anything present. Does it do it with every guitar?


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

In the control cavity, there's a black wire going in a tiny hole towards the tail piece. That is your tailpiece ground. It is in the bushing cavity, probably pressed to the wall in the wood fiber, that's why you didn't see it.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Did you remove the inserts?


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I will take a close look tonight or over the weekend. I will look and see how many black wires are under the cover and how see if one seems to go "nowhere". I did replace the inserts, but did not see a wire inside the hole. I don't have alligator clips, but I can run a wire and see if it changes. I assumed a ground issue as I touch the strings, and pretty much gone. It's mostly obvious when gain is involved. Still there when clean, but very subtle. Thanks guys.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

i'll bet 20 bucks that when you pushed the new insert in you pushed the wire out of the hole and it is not making contact with the insert... Next time when you pull the insert, make sure you hold the wire in place with your other hand...


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I wasn't even aware there was a wire. I should get a chance tonight to pull the tail piece. I assume that's where it is since it's closest to the pots?


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

BGood said:


> In the control cavity, there's a black wire going in a tiny hole towards the tail piece. That is your tailpiece ground. It is in the bushing cavity, probably pressed to the wall in the wood fiber, that's why you didn't see it.


Just remove the stud closest to the control cavity - you should be able to push the ground wire back in a little further.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

The wire that was in there was broken off at the insert. I threw a new wire on and still buzzes. This is beyond me as this electrics stuff is nothing I know anything about. My good strat makes no noise at all. With the LP it buzzes, but when I touch the foot switcher (metal casing) buzzing stops entirely. Obviously ground issue somewhere else. I took out the input jack and both wires are soldered snugly. Would reversing them cause a buzz? I took a couple pictures inside the control area. It's not pretty in there. Not sure if the PO did this, or it came this way. If it's obvious why it's buzzing can you circle it in the picture to help me understand what, and why? Might not fully understand the why, but at least hearing it may help to learn it eventually. The blue wire is the new ground to tail piece insert.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

If it didn't buzz before you changed the tailpiece it is definitely the ground. Get a length of wire and hold it by the insulation with guitar on a stand, touch the tailpiece with one end and back of pot with the other.

I assume you soldered the end of the blue wire to the pot?


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## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

Is the leg of the capacitor that is soldered to the center/wiper of the right side tone potentiometer making contact with the lug that has nothing soldered to it.... hard to tell from the pics but it looks like it may be


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

BlueRocker said:


> If it didn't buzz before you changed the tailpiece it is definitely the ground. Get a length of wire and hold it by the insulation with guitar on a stand, touch the tailpiece with one end and back of pot with the other.
> 
> I assume you soldered the end of the blue wire to the pot?


Yes, it is soldered to the pot. Not sitting loose. 



cbg1 said:


> Is the leg of the capacitor that is soldered to the center/wiper of the right side tone potentiometer making contact with the lug that has nothing soldered to it.... hard to tell from the pics but it looks like it may be


I'll have to look tomorrow after work. Put everything away and heading to bed for work tomorrow. I poked around in there, but everything seemed to be mounted solid with no play anywhere. Something is wrong, I just don't know what it is. If I took it all apart to see, I'd likely never get it back together again on my own. I am electrically challenged.


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## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

Verne said:


> Yes, it is soldered to the pot. Not sitting loose.
> 
> 
> I'll have to look tomorrow after work. Put everything away and heading to bed for work tomorrow. I poked around in there, but everything seemed to be mounted solid with no play anywhere. Something is wrong, I just don't know what it is. If I took it all apart to see, I'd likely never get it back together again on my own. I am electrically challenged.


I was wondering if it was leaning over and touching the other lug on the potentiometer


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Are the pots grounded to each other? Doesn't look like it.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

The 3 pots should be connected. Also can't tell from the pics but the switch should also be grounded to one of the 4 pots.... Looks like he rewired the guitar, got the buzz and decided to sell it....


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

You need a continuity meter. Touch two pots and it should beep. Touch the metal on the switch to a pot, it should beep. Touch the bridge to a pot. It should beep. Or instead of beeping you should see ZERO ohms


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Ground wires only


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Oops edited


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

knight_yyz said:


> The 3 pots should be connected. Also can't tell from the pics but the switch should also be grounded to one of the 4 pots.... Looks like he rewired the guitar, got the buzz and decided to sell it....



I was in L&M today on work "business" and asked the guitar repair guy there. I know him well enough to trust his input as well. He told me to put the ground wiring to the pots. Though he told in this order --- upper right to lower right to lower left. Not to attach to the upper left. Also right to the back of the pots. I plan on adding the wire tonight or over the weekend. Hope it makes a difference.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

you need "3" wires for the 4 pots. doesn;t matter where you start or end, just make sure you don;t close the box... Leave one end open. But the pic
below shows the standard method.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

That image also shows large capacitors running between 2 different pots. Mine are connected to individual pots. Not spanning 2 pots. Is this correct? They are much smaller as well. I am guessing this would've been mentioned by somebody by now, but just confirming mine is not out of the ordinary. I'll be doing some soldering tonight, so can post my results hopefully soon.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

The size makes no difference (big ones look vintage and fancy, have panda foot oil and paper, cost big bucks). I'm no expert, but I have seen caps wired that way before.

I'd be tempted to pull out the whole mess and start over if I liked the guitar. It would probably be a good upgrade, and you'd learn something from the process.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I grounded the pots to each other without closing the box and t was much quieter for about 10mins. Barely audible buzz on clean, still buzzed a bit on gain, but not nearly as much and very much acceptable to me. Then I put the back cover back on and BUZZZZZZZZZZZZ !!!! Took the cover off to see if something had been disturbed, but nothing was. Couldn't get the buzz to go away again. Moved a few wires to test connectivity and my neck pickup wire broke. FFS!!! Not a lot of lead left on the pickup wire. Time to have somebody look at it or it might be time to toss it in a firepit and admit repairing guitars will never be something I can do. Thanks for all the help guys.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

The caps in the photo are wired 50s style. Less volume loss when you roll down the tone. Like a half ass treble bleed. Your pots are wired modern style which also has advantages and disadvantages. The physical size of the cap is determined by the voltage. A guitar needs less than a volt but for some reason people like to use 400 and 600 volt caps which are a waste of space. Physical size VS value of cap are two different things...


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Replacing the leads on a pick up is pretty easy. If you're ever near Hamilton...


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Thanks @knight_yyz, but rarely near Hamilton. 

I took it in to my buddy at L&M and we found the buzzing problem with his meter that beeps. Something as stupid as a layer of paint on the tail piece is the likely culprit. The meter beeps when touching the post, but not the tail piece. It seems that the paint on the tail piece is stopping the grounding. It's also in to have the lead extended. It appears I did everything right, but the most likely answer is usually the easiest. In this case, I never even considered the black colouring on the hardware. It should cost me the cost of new strings and maybe a little time. Next time, I'll be checking the parts for paint layers. I may also look into the meter that goes "BEEP". What is the meter called? Continuity?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

You have a few choices. Get a multimeter that measures resistance in Ohms, but keep in mind not all them actually beep. You may have to read the display and look for 0 (zero) Ohms. Or you can buy an actual continuity tester that will look something like this. Some have a small bulb that lights up, some of them beep.... Pretty sure the one picturesdis audible, but it may light up i'm too lazy to research the model number.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I have an automotive light tester. Would that work? It's clip is pretty big mind you.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

There's continuity tester apps for your tablet or smart phone.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Verne said:


> I have an automotive light tester. Would that work? It's clip is pretty big mind you.


There is not enough voltage to light up the bulb. The continuity tester is battery operated


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