# Can I use 6L6s in my 6V6 Traynor Bass Mate combo



## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

I'm after just a little more headroom and a bolder bass tone for recording. Would 6L6s get me there? Can the amp handle them as is? With a simple mod?


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Before modding, try some new production JJ 6V6s. They have a bit of a 6L6 thing going on.

TG


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

I doubt the Bassmate would have high enough heater current. You could mod the bias supply. I know the transformers are Hammond but would you have the specs??


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

You could put them in and monitor the power transformer's temperature and the voltage to the heaters. If the voltages drop then likely there isn't enough current to run 6L6's. I put 5881's in my Gibson GA14RVT and gigged with it for years and the power transformer is about half the size of the Bassmate's. You can't really say whether it will work or not until you try and the results may not be pretty. The other caveat is the impedance mismatch. 6V6's like to see roughly twice the load that 6L6's do. The amp won't make full power and will sound somewhat different. The JJ's are a good compromise.


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## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

Forgot about the very 6L6ish JJ 6V6s. I think that's my next move.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

LowWatt said:


> Forgot about the very 6L6ish JJ 6V6s. I think that's my next move.


I did this in one of mine bassmates and it gave me a bit more headroom. It won't "transform the amp" but it can help. Have your tried a lower gain pre-amp tube too?

TG


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

6L6s can sub for 6V6s, but _*NOT*_ the reverse.

I regularly stick a 6L6 or 5881 in place of the 6V6 in my tweed Princeton, for slightly different tone and headroom, without any problem.

Part of the acceptability of the substitution would depend on the plate voltage, I would think. Both types of tubes have optimal plate voltage ranges, and if the Bass Mate is at the lowish end of what 6V6s like, it may be too low for the 6L6s. However, that's more a matter of tonal quality, as I understand it, than "Will this blow up my amp?".


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## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

traynor_garnet said:


> I did this in one of mine bassmates and it gave me a bit more headroom. It won't "transform the amp" but it can help. Have your tried a lower gain pre-amp tube too?
> TG


I'm really just looking at subtleties. I've got a 12AU7 in V1 and I use the amp as a recording bass amp and it sounds awesome. It's the bass tone all over the old band's EP (in my signature) I just thought a bit bolder with a tiny bit more headroom would be a plus and didn't want to pop in and play before putting the idea out there to make sure I wasn't doing something risky/stupid. If the JJs get me there, great. i've got a set here to try.



mhammer said:


> 6L6s can sub for 6V6s, but _*NOT*_ the reverse.
> 
> I regularly stick a 6L6 or 5881 in place of the 6V6 in my tweed Princeton, for slightly different tone and headroom, without any problem.
> 
> Part of the acceptability of the substitution would depend on the plate voltage, I would think. Both types of tubes have optimal plate voltage ranges, and if the Bass Mate is at the lowish end of what 6V6s like, it may be too low for the 6L6s. However, that's more a matter of tonal quality, as I understand it, than "Will this blow up my amp?".


Hmm...sounds worth the try. I've got a matched set of the new Tung Sol 5881 "reissues" kicking around. Any danger in trying them?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

> Hmm...sounds worth the try. I've got a matched set of the new Tung Sol 5881 "reissues" kicking around. Any danger in trying them?


As far as I know, no.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

The only danger was pointed out by WCGill. 6L6's & 5881's require twice the heater current of 6V6's. The extra current draw could burn out the heater winding of a power transformer that is not oversized for the job. Traynor transformers are usually relatively large, so it should be able to handle it. But, as mentioned above, check that the power transformer is not overheating with the 5881's. Try to get an idea of how hot the PT runs with the 6V6's, then compare it to the 5881's.


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## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

jb welder said:


> The only danger was pointed out by WCGill. 6L6's & 5881's require twice the heater current of 6V6's. The extra current draw could burn out the heater winding of a power transformer that is not oversized for the job. Traynor transformers are usually relatively large, so it should be able to handle it. But, as mentioned above, check that the power transformer is not overheating with the 5881's. Try to get an idea of how hot the PT runs with the 6V6's, then compare it to the 5881's.


Good advice. Thank you.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

One more thing that hasn't been mentioned here. The biggest performance upgrade you can make (and easiest mod) will always be upgrading speakers. A speaker that is 3db more efficient (than the original) will give you the same SPL increase as doubling the output wattage of the amp (which also results in 3db SPL increase). Please note that I did not say doubling the loudness of the amp, which requires 10db increase in SPL (10 times the output wattage).


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## Furtz (Nov 27, 2010)

I have an early model Bassmate with a heavily modded preamp and stock power amp. I'm using JJ 6V6s and a 15" Eminence Legend, and it's biased a little on the cool side.
Sounds sweet to me, and nice and clean, the way I want it.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

I've had a set of NOS Tung Sol 5881's in my '74 Deluxe Reverb for about 2 years now. It has the export power tranny in it, a Jensen Blackbird and a 5AR4 replacing the 5U4. I have to say it sounds better than it ever did with 6V6's. Much less farty bass particularly when playing a Gibson through it.


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

mhammer said:


> 6L6s can sub for 6V6s, but _*NOT*_ the reverse.
> 
> I regularly stick a 6L6 or 5881 in place of the 6V6 in my tweed Princeton, for slightly different tone and headroom, without any problem.
> 
> Part of the acceptability of the substitution would depend on the plate voltage, I would think. Both types of tubes have optimal plate voltage ranges, and if the Bass Mate is at the lowish end of what 6V6s like, it may be too low for the 6L6s. However, that's more a matter of tonal quality, as I understand it, than "Will this blow up my amp?".


I've used JJ6V6 in Fender 6L6 amps without sweat...:banana:


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## Furtz (Nov 27, 2010)

Plate voltage? Lots of 6L6 amps run the plate voltage around 450 to 500v.
What's the max plate voltage for a 6V6? Look it up.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Furtz said:


> Plate voltage? Lots of 6L6 amps run the plate voltage around 450 to 500v.
> What's the max plate voltage for a 6V6? Look it up.


Pretty impressive I'd say...
http://www.jj-electronic.com/pdf/6V6.pdf


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## Furtz (Nov 27, 2010)

That really is impressive. Any other data sheet I've seen puts the max plate voltage for a 6V6 at 350V.


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

Furtz said:


> That really is impressive. Any other data sheet I've seen puts the max plate voltage for a 6V6 at 350V.


We are talking JJ 6V6 but...

DO NOT SHOVE ANY OLD 6V6 in a 6L6 amp!!!

JJ are tested and true.

They will take the heath!


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

Here's how to do it properly 

install jj6v6's 
install a massive replacement output transformer ie from a twin, bassman 50 or traynor yba-1 
install a modern high efficiency bass speaker 
double the primary filter cap of the amp 40mfd becomes 80mfd 

buy a radial Passive DI box 

record both the amp and a signal from the DI 

p


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## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

parkhead said:


> Here's how to do it properly
> 
> install jj6v6's
> install a massive replacement output transformer ie from a twin, bassman 50 or traynor yba-1
> ...


Thanks for the tips man. I'm going with the JJs and they're working nice, looking to improve the speaker and I always record it split with a DI, but I'm definitely not willing to swap a tranny on an amp I love this much. I am willing to swap a cap or resistor here or there if there's a clear benefit. WHat would come out of the primary filter cap swap?


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

doubling the main filter will add a little bass, some tightness and thump by making the power supply to low note transients faster... its easy to overdo it and tighten up the feel of the amp too much so resist the temptation to add still more filtering


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## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

Just bumping with an update. 

In the end I went very simple and just popped in the Tung Sol 5881 RIs. No signs of overheating or anything even the slightest bit out of the ordinary in terms of glow, heat, tone, smell, from any of the components. It sounds great. 

It's not any louder, it just has a slightly bolder and punchier clean with a stronger bass to all of it. Exactly what I was looking for. Kind of took on more of a tweed Pro vibe, but I haven't had the chance to crank it with guitar (only bass), so it's hard to be too certain there. I'll keep monitoring it, but it all seems good.


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