# Orville vs Burny Les Paul Customs



## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I'm currently in the market for a Les Paul Custom, but don't want to shell out Gibson-type cash for one, as I have a bit of a love / hate relationship with Les Pauls in general. 

That said, the idea of getting an MIJ Les Paul Custom seems like a good way to get me into the LPC market. There's a lot of info out there, but there's a couple of things that I'm curious about with these respective brands:

- Neck size between the Orville and Burny LPCs
- Pickups and electronics

Any insight to these details, or anything overall would be helpful. Thanks!


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Orville is litterally Gibson Japan, so the hardware is legit (pups especially - Burny ain't bad, but Orville will be correct and what you'd expect on an actual Les Paul.... this matters more for other models with more niche pups I suppose, like Firebirds).


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

80's Burny is about as close to the real thing you can get for a copy. Orville was managed by Gibson. Actually I don't think Orville would be around if for the fact that Burny, Greco and Tokai were putting out stuff just as good (arguably) as MIA stuff in the 70's and early 80's at a fraction of the cost. Gibson couldn't compete in Japan so they started making them in Japan.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I had a Burny John Sykes model, essentially a Custom.
It was early 80s, no serial # and the split diamond headstock.
They later went to the lightening bolt.

That had a 59 neck, not slim taper, but not as chunky as my R8.

I had an Orville Vee and it was a really nice guitar. The elctronics were swapped out by the previous owner. A possible weak spot for many MIJ units. 
There are Orville by Gibson too, which are a step up in quality from the regular Orvilles, from what I know.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

Burny, Greco, and Tokai from the late ‘70s to early ‘80s (and late ‘80s in some cases) have a variety of models with a bunch of different neck shapes. Some low-end models are hollow, kinda like an ES Les Paul (May be good or bad, depending on what you are looking for). The lower end models may have cheaper electronics, but some of the mid-to-high models have very good electronics.

You can tell the relative value of the guitar based on many of their model numbers, which basically said what they were sold for. For example, the RR-70 would have been 70,000 yen, the EG-450 was 45,000 yen, and EG-800 was 80,000 yen. So just as new guitars, there was a wide range in cost and quality on similar looking models. (Although, most of the lower priced models from that time still played very nice.)

With the wide variety of models, just find some and play them. I highly recommend giving them a try.


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## theruley (Oct 24, 2011)

i have a 1990 burny les paul custom and the neck feels nearly identical to my gibson les paul traditional that I used to have...big-ish, but not humungous. The pickups also sound really good. It is one of my favourite guitars I have ever had!


whatever you end up getting-keep note of the number attached to the model name. the number normally corresponds to the price in yen that it would have cost (eg900 = 90,000 yen, rlc75 = 75,000 yen) the higher the number, the higher the spec.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Thanks for all of the input!

It's encouraging to hear that the RLC necks are close to the traditional necks. I know that some Custom necks are quite slim, and I love chunky necks. 

I also had no idea about the number designation, so that's good to know. Most of the Burnys that I'm looking at have the diamond headstock (80's), rather than the lightning bolt pattern, and I think cap out at roughly the 60,000 Yen mark.

It also seems like people generally prefer the Burnys over the Orville, and Grecos of the 80's also seem to be highly regarded. I need to do a bit more research between the various MIJ LPC styles before I can make a decision, so I guess I'm opening this topic up to other brands now. However, I think I'm leaning towards a Burny. HAHA


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

TWRC said:


> It also seems like people generally prefer the Burnys over the Orville, and Grecos of the 80's also seem to be highly regarded.


I think they all have their fans. Personally, Greco (made by Fugigen) is my favourite because I’ve liked all of them that I’ve played. But Burny (made by Fernandes), Tokai, Navigator (if you can find any, made by ESP) and Orville (by Gibson, but I’m not sure who in Japan actually produced them) all have some very good models. You’ll really just have to find some to try, or take a calculated gamble and buy one online.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Burny Super Grade, Tokai Love Rock and Greco Mint Collection. Not necessarily in that order. They all their own fan base. 
I have a mint collection Les Paul Custom Lite with screamin 82 pickups. I swapped the ceramic magnets for alnico 2. Long neck tenon and only about 7 pounds. Bought it by accident thinking it was a fullsize Les Paul. Lol wouldn't think of getting rid of it though.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I was going to mention that Navigator (ESP) and Vantage are players in MIJ LP market, as well ---- @troyhead beat me to it. I don't know if they made LPC's, but their LP Standards were really good. The more options you have, the more likely you are to find 'the right one'.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

knight_yyz said:


> Lol wouldn't think of getting rid of it though.


But if you do, let me know first!


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I'm not even sure how much it is worth.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

knight_yyz said:


> I'm not even sure how much it is worth.


Probably just a few bucks.  I'd be happy to relieve you of its burdensome presence in your house.


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

Both are good guitars. I like the tenon joint on the Fujigen Orville guitars, not fussy on the Burny joint.

Hardware is pretty much the same but Burny will have better pickups. The Orville By Gibson 57B, Orville JS, LPC-85 and Orville JP all have ebony boards. The 57B is a reissue and is the best of all mentioned but they're not very cheap these days. Still cheaper than a Gibson Custom though.

None of the Burny or Orville/ObG LP's I've owned had a bigger profile neck. I'd say they're more of a 60's profile.

I've had both and preferred the Orville/ObG's. Sold them all the day my first Bacchus rolled in the door though.


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## GUInessTARS (Dec 28, 2007)

I recently bought a Burny Les Paul Custom copy. It plays very well and sounds good through my amps.
I also have a Gibson Les Paul standard and studio and a PRS single cut.
They all sound and play differently, one is not better than the other, just different.
You have to find the one that works for you, as SaucyJack said, when he found the one that worked for him - he knew it.


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

GUInessTARS said:


> I recently bought a Burny Les Paul Custom copy. It plays very well and sounds good through my amps.
> I also have a Gibson Les Paul standard and studio and a PRS single cut.
> They all sound and play differently, one is not better than the other, just different.
> You have to find the one that works for you, as SaucyJack said, when he found the one that worked for him - he knew it.


Trouble with those is that they don't come up for sale that often these days for the prices I paid for mine. I could get a Bacchus Classic Series shipped to the door from Japan for $500 or $600. 

A guy on MLP called Wulfman is an excellent seller and always has great gear at good prices. He's your man.


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## LaRSin (Nov 27, 2006)

I know nothing about these , Is this a good one . to far me to travel 

Late seventies Greco in great working condition, hardware and guitar show signs of age but looks very cool. No wear on frets, bone nut and a beautiful dark rosewood fretboard and NOT a bolt on. Sounds and plays great!

$700 firm and sorry no trades!!!

Greco Les Paul | Guitars | Ottawa | Kijiji


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## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

I had an early 80’s Burny Custom (RLC?) at the same time as having Gibson LP Customs. 
The quality is good. 
Differences:
The Burny had a poly paint job 
The board was Rosewood dyed black to resemble ebony. 
The headstock angle was old school correct (17 degrees?) whereas my Customs from 78-82 are the shallow angle. 
The belly carve on the Burny was much deeper than my shallow Customs. 

Those were differences, not better or worse. Just giving my experiences.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

SaucyJack said:


> Trouble with those is that they don't come up for sale that often these days for the prices I paid for mine. I could get a Bacchus Classic Series shipped to the door from Japan for $500 or $600.
> 
> A guy on MLP called Wulfman is an excellent seller and always has great gear at good prices. He's your man.


I started going down the Bacchus rabbit hole last night on MLP, and now I'm intrigued by their stuff.

Do you go as GammyBird on MLP? Just a hunch based on your avatar.



numb41 said:


> I had an early 80’s Burny Custom (RLC?) at the same time as having Gibson LP Customs.
> The quality is good.
> Differences:
> The Burny had a poly paint job
> ...


All good things to note. Especially the period correct headstock angle, which I absolutely love.


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## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

TWRC said:


> I started going down the Bacchus rabbit hole last night on MLP, and now I'm intrigued by their stuff.
> 
> Do you go as GammyBird on MLP? Just a hunch based on your avatar.
> 
> ...


Oh, and the Burny had an ABR1 style bridge. Not so on the Gibson’s


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

LaRSin said:


> I know nothing about these , Is this a good one . to far me to travel
> 
> Late seventies Greco in great working condition, hardware and guitar show signs of age but looks very cool. No wear on frets, bone nut and a beautiful dark rosewood fretboard and NOT a bolt on. Sounds and plays great!
> 
> ...


There is a sticker on the back of the headstock. It should have the model number. Note the truss rod cover says Standard not Custom. Seller should have shown that sticker in the photos better. Made in Jan 79. Ask for a photo of that oval sticker


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

knight_yyz said:


> There is a sticker on the back of the headstock. It has the model number. Seller should have shown that in the photos better. Made in Jan 79


If only that was a black custom!


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

It's a 1979 eg700 according to the sticker ( i messaged the guy)

The EG-700s from the late ´70s-period have a solid plain 2pc maple top, pancake body (2 slices of mahogany w. a slim maple layer between) and a 3-pc maple neck like the Gibson LP´s from 1974 to the early ´80s. (Norlin construction) Most likely a c shaped neck with U-2000 pups.

I've also read this could be what is referred to as a butcher block body, the pancake style but with smaller pieces of wood for extra stability. 
Pancake style below


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

This is calling my name...

ORVILLE / LPC-75/EB USED | Ishibashi Music U-BOX


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I don't think you will beat that price. I did a quick check in Yahoo Japan and the cheapest Black Orville LPC is 68k yen


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

TWRC said:


> I started going down the Bacchus rabbit hole last night on MLP, and now I'm intrigued by their stuff.
> 
> Do you go as GammyBird on MLP? Just a hunch based on your avatar.
> 
> ...



I've been outed!!! lol....


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

You have to be aware that neither the Burny or Orville/ObG Customs have a full hog body unless you're looking at a ObG 57B. Most are maple cap on mahogany back.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

SaucyJack said:


> I've been outed!!! lol....


The Maiden avatar gave it away! haha



SaucyJack said:


> You have to be aware that neither the Burny or Orville/ObG Customs have a full hog body unless you're looking at a ObG 57B. Most are maple cap on mahogany back.


Oddly enough, that's my preference, as I love the Custom aesthetics, but the more focused sound of the maple cap. Do you have any experience with the J Serial pickups? From what I've read, they're your run of the mill Japanese pickups from the time.


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## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

SaucyJack said:


> You have to be aware that neither the Burny or Orville/ObG Customs have a full hog body unless you're looking at a ObG 57B. Most are maple cap on mahogany back.


My early 80’s white Custom Burny had a full mahogany body


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

There's a couple of other guitars that also have my interest, hence why I haven't posted a WTB, or pulled the trigger on that LPC-75 from Ishibashi. The Edwards E-LP and the Bacchus BLP (both with Customs P90's) both have my eye as well.

Anyone here have experience with these particular models?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Burny Lemon Burst with vh-1's.... Drool


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

numb41 said:


> My early 80’s white Custom Burny had a full mahogany body


Yes thanks. I forgot about those.


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

TWRC said:


> There's a couple of other guitars that also have my interest, hence why I haven't posted a WTB, or pulled the trigger on that LPC-75 from Ishibashi. The Edwards E-LP and the Bacchus BLP (both with Customs P90's) both have my eye as well.
> 
> Anyone here have experience with these particular models?


Edwards is a good guitar as well. They tend to be lighter. I've only had one Edwards Special. Had a neck dive so it had to go. Seymour Duncan pups in those too. 

I'd go to the end of the world and back for a good Bacchus. I haven't had a bad one yet. I don't need a lot of guitars laying around so I kept my favourite and moved the rest along.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

LaRSin said:


> I know nothing about these , Is this a good one . to far me to travel
> 
> Late seventies Greco in great working condition, hardware and guitar show signs of age but looks very cool. No wear on frets, bone nut and a beautiful dark rosewood fretboard and NOT a bolt on. Sounds and plays great!
> 
> ...


A black Standard always makes me think 80s metal.


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## Yelir (Oct 23, 2018)

Nice to see more love for the MIJ Les Pauls on this forum. I would totally let you try out my extra Burny and Greco guitars. My favorite is a tobacco burst Burny (mid-80's?), everything about it feels perfect. None of the Gibson's I have owned or played ever came close!


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

@Yelir Maybe next time I'm in Calgary I'll have to take you up on your offer.  I bought my only MIJ Gibson copy in Calgary a few trips back.
NGD: Greco semi-hollow


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

All my guitars are MIJ


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Yelir said:


> Nice to see more love for the MIJ Les Pauls on this forum. I would totally let you try out my extra Burny and Greco guitars. My favorite is a tobacco burst Burny (mid-80's?), everything about it feels perfect. None of the Gibson's I have owned or played ever came close!


I'll definitely take you up on that offer next time I'm in Calgary!

I've narrowed my choices down, and hope to have a NGD post in a few weeks!


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

troyhead said:


> @Yelir Maybe next time I'm in Calgary I'll have to take you up on your offer.  I bought my only MIJ Gibson copy in Calgary a few trips back.
> NGD: Greco semi-hollow


How's the neck on that? I know there's an SA-64-60 posted on Reverb that looks pretty cool, but the slim neck made me walk away.

As mentioned in my original post, I have a love-hate relationship with Gibson for various reasons, but the Gibson that I sold and miss the most was my ES-335; but that too had a slim neck, and I love baseball bats. I figure after scoring a nice MIJ LP, I'll focus on finding a nice MIJ 335.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

TWRC said:


> How's the neck on that?


Mine is from '77 and I don't think they were going for an exact replica of a specific year at that point, so it might be a bit different. For example, mine has a volute and a 3-piece neck, like many Gibson's from the '70s. That said, the neck on mine feels not very thick but also not too thin, and nice and rounded on the back. I've recently passed on a couple of Gibson's with necks advertised as "thin '60s" as they just did not feel comfortable to me at all. But this one I could play for hours.

There is this old posting of another SA-64-60 which seems to make it sound like the neck is similar in shape to mine (some dimensions are listed in the posting). If the pickups are original, they would be "The Groove" Alnico 5 pickups, possibly similar to the U-2000 pickups in mine (which are so so very good pickups).


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

troyhead said:


> Mine is from '77 and I don't think they were going for an exact replica of a specific year at that point, so it might be a bit different. For example, mine has a volute and a 3-piece neck, like many Gibson's from the '70s. That said, the neck on mine feels not very thick but also not too thin, and nice and rounded on the back. I've recently passed on a couple of Gibson's with necks advertised as "thin '60s" as they just did not feel comfortable to me at all. But this one I could play for hours.
> 
> There is this old posting of another SA-64-60 which seems to make it sound like the neck is similar in shape to mine (some dimensions are listed in the posting). If the pickups are original, they would be "The Groove" Alnico 5 pickups, possibly similar to the U-2000 pickups in mine (which are so so very good pickups).


Those neck dimensions seem perfect for me. Thin '60s is way too thin for me. This is great to know, as I'm pretty sure a Greco SA will be the guitar after I get this LP...

The one LP that I'm looking at has U-1000 pickups, and there's a lot of mixed reviews on it. I'm a big fan of lower output pickups, so they might work out for me in the end, but I also think I might be reaching out to @copperhead about his Vivid PAF or Sweet '59 PAF set.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

TWRC said:


> The one LP that I'm looking at has U-1000 pickups


The U-1000 have ceramic magnets, I believe, while the U-2000 are Alnico. In case you are unaware, some of the Greco models that sported the U-1000 pickups are actually hollow and built more like an ES Les Paul than a standard solidbody Les Paul. Maybe that's a good thing, maybe it's not... depends on what you are looking for.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Yes, there's so many different variations that I've been reading about in terms of solid vs hollow bodies during the early 80's. I made sure that this Greco was a solid body, and luckily it is. 

I was also toying around with the idea of swapping magnets in the U-1000's but figure I should give them a chance before I make any changes.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Cool thing is if you don't like the ceramic magnets you can swap them for alnico 2 or 3 and I bet they sound very PAF like


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

knight_yyz said:


> Cool thing is if you don't like the ceramic magnets you can swap them for alnico 2 or 3 and I bet they sound very PAF like


I'm thinking that too, as U-1000's tend to be in the 7.5 - 8.0k mark. I'd most likely go with Alnico II's, just because that's what I always gravitate towards.


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