# Used guitar target markets.



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

After reading the Trade Opinions thread by Jimmy_D, I will ask something similar.

I have a nice 2015 Indie Studio Thru Black I am trying to move and I am not sure I am posting it in the right places. Presently on several local Facebook general selling gear pages, local Kijiji, local CL and here.

Where would you go with this ?


----------



## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

Reverb has done me well. The cites thing is a pain but oh well.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I'm no expert but that's not a common guitar (I've never heard of it) so I would think it's going to take longer to sell than say a MIM Fender Telecaster, etc.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Yeah, you have a beginner/mid-level instrument that doesn't have the same name recognition as other companies. It's not that it's a bad guitar necessarily (I think I've only ever played one) but you'll want a well-written ad with great pictures to get people to take notice. Of course, pricing it right counts for a lot as well.


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Guncho said:


> ... that's not a common guitar (I've never heard of it) so I would think it's going to take longer to sell than say a MIM Fender Telecaster, etc.


That I realize and I'm OK with it. It's just that I might not be knocking at the right door.


Budda said:


> Yeah, you have a beginner/mid-level instrument ...


 You're right about it having no recognition, you are a prime proof of that. But how can you judge a guitar you know nothing about ? This is far from a beginner/intermediate guitar. It is really well crafted instrument, ebony fretboard, Grover tuners, great Alnico sounding pups, etc. Much better built than my PRS SE.

FS: - 2015 Indie Studio Thru Black (Formerly IPR Solid)


----------



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

Its still a no name guitar. You would be lucky to get 200$ for it. I just bought a Cort Hiram Bullock for 300$. It has Sperzel tuners, Wilkinson birdge and roller nut, birds eye neck, Dunlop strap locks.
The market for "cheap" guitars is so over flooded that its extremely hard to sell any guitar these days for under 500$.
Go on Kijiji and type "electric guitar" and put a 100-300$ range and there will be hundreds.
People will buy Fenders and Epiphone's before an unknown brand.


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

I guess I just have to get an eventual local buyer to play it and fall in love with it. I'm in no hurry.


----------



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

I guess its a good thing for kids these days, there are a lot of really really nice guitars for 200-300$.


----------



## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I agree. The brand name is a problem. I've played one. They are very nice guitars. The guy that was selling the one I tried has a few he's been trying to sell on the Vancouver CL and elsewhere for at least two years now. Your best bet is to trade it for whatever you can get then sell the trade. Make sure the trade is a recognised name brand. I've been able to get rid of a few off brand guitars by bundling them in a trade with another more desirable guitar. The other option is to keep it. It is a nice guitar. Accept that you will never get what it is worth and play the heck out of it.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

If it's not selling for an extended period, there are a couple of possible problems.

1) The ad is written in such a way as to not grab people's attention and/or the pics may be adding to the problem
2) It is priced too high for the present market


----------



## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

it's not hard to get attention for your ad. just one word - boobs - will get you plenty of hits.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Grovers come on $400 guitars. Nice alnico pickups come on $400 guitars (agile did great in that regard). Those two things dont magically make a guitar worth more when they become standard on $350 instruments. Nice specs does not equal a great guitar, ever. Ask everyone who got Halo or Rotor guitars how that worked out. Even semi-custom shops drop the ball.

It can be a better guitar than a prs SE (which seem to be the bar for imports these days) - but you still have to find the buyer who wants that specific guitar anyways. If it doesnt come with a hardshell case then you're looking at less value there too.


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Budda said:


> ... but you still have to find the buyer who wants that specific guitar anyways.


That was exactly the point of my question. I am not discussing the value of that guitar, I was just trying to pick some brains on the best forums or discussion groups to post it.

Forget about it, I'll work it out by myself ...
Thanks anyways.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

BGood said:


> That was exactly the point of my question. I am not discussing the value of that guitar, I was just trying to pick some brains on the best forums or discussion groups to post it.
> 
> Forget about it, I'll work it out by myself ...
> Thanks anyways.


I think once you cover Kijiji/CL/Reverb and any forums you're on, you've kind of hit everything that's worth hitting. To go back to something I mentioned, you're going to want great descriptions, clips if you have them and really nice pictures (including imperfections) to pull a potential buyer in. It's worth seeing what @al3d is selling just for his photography haha.


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Budda said:


> To go back to something I mentioned, you're going to want great descriptions, clips if you have them and really nice pictures (including imperfections) to pull a potential buyer in. It's worth seeing what @al3d is selling just for his photography haha.


FYI: FS: - 2015 Indie Studio Thru Black (Formerly IPR Solid)


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

Well you lied in your ad for starters. 
Construction and finish of a high end PRS. 
Let's not kid ourselves here.


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Have you ever set your hands on my Indie ?
Your comment smells like heavy duty cork sniffing. But why do I bother ... ?


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Your ad is quite good here at GC. I don't know what it is like on Kijiji and CL. If it is similar, I feel it can be improved. If you would like some help, PM me and I could give you a hand.


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

BGood said:


> Have you ever set your hands on my Indie ?
> Your comment smells like heavy duty cork sniffing. But why do I bother ... ?


Yes and I actually owned one when they first came out. They were really popular within the hardcore scene, almost everyone I knew owned one. There is a reason they are at a sub 1000 dollar price point and as a result that makes your claim asinine.


----------



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

TDeneka said:


> Construction and finish of a high end PRS


I wouldn`t call it a lie. I have seen a lot of lower end guitars that are literally as good as it gets. I mean, its a guitar. I have never understood folks spending several thousand on Booteek guitars. My 300$ Cort is as nice and as well built as any guitar made. Period.


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

capnjim said:


> I wouldn`t call it a lie. I have seen a lot of lower end guitars that are literally as good as it gets. I mean, its a guitar. I have never understood folks spending several thousand on Booteek guitars. My 300$ Cort is as nice and as well built as any guitar made. Period.


If you can't tell the difference between a 300 dollar cort and a high end guitar simply from the feel of the materials alone, then that's your problem. 
It isn't as good. Period.


----------



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

TDeneka said:


> If you can't tell the difference between a 300 dollar cort and a high end guitar simply from the feel of the materials alone, then that's your problem.
> It isn't as good. Period.


I can tell the difference...its the name on the headstock and the price and that's pretty much it.
There is absolutely no difference in construction and materials.
But...I understand, you probably paid a lot of money for your guitars and need to justify the name on the headstock.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

capnjim said:


> I can tell the difference...its the name on the headstock and the price and that's pretty much it.
> There is absolutely no difference in construction and materials.
> But...I understand, you probably paid a lot of money for your guitars and need to justify the name on the headstock.


Yes, and also where it's made. If it's made in the USA and other places where labour costs are high, they just can't compete with the Asian markets in price.


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

capnjim said:


> I can tell the difference...its the name on the headstock and the price and that's pretty much it.
> There is absolutely no difference in construction and materials.
> But...I understand, you probably paid a lot of money for your guitars and need to justify the name on the headstock.


with this post, you've defeated yourself. "There is absolutely no difference in construction and materials." Keep kidding yourself.
I've never need to justify any of my purchases, I don't live my life caring about the opinions of others.


----------



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

TDeneka said:


> I don't live my life caring about the opinions of others.


Yet you have replied with borderline hostility to every one of my posts! 
Ha Ha Ha!!!!!


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

BGood said:


> Have you ever set your hands on my Indie ?
> Your comment smells like heavy duty cork sniffing. But why do I bother ... ?


ahh...but you've hit the nail on the head...as frustrating as it may be, this is the attitude many/most buyers will have...ie they aren't familiar with YOUR guitar they know little of the brand, the brand itself doesn't have strong resale value, etc. You will just have to be patient until you find someone looking for a similar "off-brand" guitar as yours.
Trust me, I know... its the reason why I don't even bother trying to sell any of my Lado's. they are worth much more to me than what the market will pay...it doesn't matter that_ I know_ it is superior to 99.9% of all Fenders ever made....it would be better off it said Fender on the headstock. resale value is an intangible.


----------



## LaRSin (Nov 27, 2006)

Just so everyone knows , He trade 2010 Classic Vive 50's Strat. for it and Scotch Brighted the neck .

So since he has touched the neck would make less valuable ,, And not Telling anyone in the add.

In my opinion, for whats that worth lol

But is nice looking Guitar.

NGD - 2015 Indie Studio Thru Black

NGD - 2015 Indie Studio Thru Black


----------



## Guest (May 8, 2017)

LaRSin said:


> But is nice looking Guitar.


I kinda like the pup rings.


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

capnjim said:


> Yet you have replied with borderline hostility to every one of my posts!
> Ha Ha Ha!!!!!


If you take that as hostility, I really wonder what your daily conversations are like.


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Oulala ! Forgot about that one. I might have spit on it too, then it's worth even less, almost nothing I'd say. What's less than nothing ?

I didn't know there was such snobbery here, I thought it only happened on brand name forums and dedicated worship sites. Guess I was wrong again. And LaRSin, if you're going to shit on my parade, you should at least have the balls to address your comment to me directly, instead of "_So everyone knows_" and "_Since he has ..._".

But thanks for pointing it out, I had forgotten about the Scotch Brite bit. I do it to every guitar I get, so it's like a reflex to me.. I will edit my ad.

So this topîc is closed as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Snobbery is on any forum dedicated to anything, just like when you walk outside and deal with people in real life.

I dont think larsin is shitting on your parade, I think he is holding you accountable to be transparent about your question and listing. I think *any* interested buyer should know the neck was changed - what you traded for it is irrelevan. Deals happen. 

Given the new info though, this is worth what a CV strat is worth, give or take. Market value isnt determined by what one person wants their gear to sell for. Good luck.


----------



## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i always thought the fdl was a cool looking guitar, but never had the chance to try one out


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

IMHO, sanding down the neck on a guitar shouldn't matter unless it is a collector guitar. I do it to all my guitars if they are gloss or sticky for some other reason. If it makes it more playable, then it's a better "playable" guitar, is it not?


----------



## LaRSin (Nov 27, 2006)

With my post I was just trying to put all the facts out there,

Hell I would have been interested in it if he was closer,


----------



## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

LOL this thread is something... to the OP, you’re doing fine just hang in and you’ll move it eventually, looks like a nice guitar.

New siggy line for the OP - 

_*Guitars Canada, where your guitar dreams go to die...*_


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

cheezyridr said:


> i always thought the fdl was a cool looking guitar, but never had the chance to try one out


Hey there, Cheezyridr, I didn't recognize you with the avatar change. 

Now, back to the regular programming.


----------



## Guest (May 8, 2017)

BGood said:


> I have a nice 2015 Indie Studio Thru Black I am trying to move and I am not sure I am posting it in the right places.


Try selling it in the 'for sale' forum here?
As a supporting member, you have the;
1) Ability to post new threads in the For Sale forums
2) Ability to respond to threads in the for sale area


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> IMHO, sanding down the neck on a guitar shouldn't matter unless it is a collector guitar. I do it to all my guitars if they are gloss or sticky for some other reason. If it makes it more playable, then it's a better "playable" guitar, is it not?


It wasn't sanded. Scotch Brite will only get the finish smoother. So it is real easy to bring back the luster if you want it that way.



LaRSin said:


> With my post I was just trying to put all the facts out there,
> 
> Hell I would have been interested in it if he was closer,


That's what the conversation function is there for.


laristotle said:


> Try selling it in the 'for sale' forum here?
> As a supporting member, you have the;
> 1) Ability to post new threads in the For Sale forums
> 2) Ability to respond to threads in the for sale area


It's been posted for almost a week and yes, it is in the Squier CV Strat price range.
FS: - 2015 Indie Studio Thru Black (Formerly IPR Solid)


----------



## Guest (May 8, 2017)

BGood said:


> It's been posted for almost a week and yes, it is in the Squier CV Strat price range.


Oops .. my bad.








Next time I'll go look first.


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

If I were in the market for a PRS style guitar, I'd be all over that. Seems to me to be a lot of guitar for a small price. I think it is priced very well too. I believe your issue is the limited market for that style of guitar.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

BGood said:


> It wasn't sanded. Scotch Brite will only get the finish smoother. So it is real easy to bring back the luster if you want it that way.


Sanded is a generic term. I used steel wool but sanded sounds better than steel wooled.


----------



## Jimi D (Oct 27, 2008)

capnjim said:


> I wouldn`t call it a lie. I have seen a lot of lower end guitars that are literally as good as it gets. I mean, its a guitar. I have never understood folks spending several thousand on Booteek guitars. *My 300$ Cort is as nice and as well built as any guitar made. Period.*


There may be a treatment available for that kind of delusion... but it probably costs more than $300...

Believe what you want, but the truth is not there...


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Jimi D said:


> There may be a treatment available for that kind of delusion... but it probably costs more than $300...
> 
> Believe what you want, but the truth is not there...


I just don't believe in Fairy Dust, tonewood, dinosaur bone nut, Tibetan capacitors, magical headsock logos and such, for an electric.
Seems that the delusion remedy you mention, works well for you. Good ...


----------



## Guest (May 8, 2017)

Steadfastly said:


> I used steel wool but sanded sounds better than steel wooled.


I'm sure that the shearing process must be difficult too.


----------



## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

I know a guy that has a Indie 1st anniversary...it is quite a looker and plays nice..,I have never seen one forsale...


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

You know what ? I'm starting to have doubts about all this. Maybe I should keep it.

I have an Ultra LP coming and I figured I'd sell the Indie to finance it. I think I'll wait for the LP to come in and then decide if i sell one or the other ... or maybe none of those.


----------



## luker0 (Apr 18, 2017)

BGood said:


> I just don't believe in Fairy Dust, tonewood, dinosaur bone nut, Tibetan capacitors, magical headsock logos and such, for an electric.
> Seems that the delusion remedy you mention, works well for you. Good ...


So what you are saying is that materials don't matter at all in a guitar build? So say you have three identical guitars one with a plastic nut, one with a bone nut and one with a brass nut and they will all sound exactly the same? You are also saying that a guitar body cut (massed produced) on a C&C mill will be identical to one carved by hand by a master craftsman?


----------



## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

luker0 said:


> So what you are saying is that materials don't matter at all in a guitar build? So say you have three identical guitars one with a plastic nut, one with a bone nut and one with a brass nut and they will all sound exactly the same? You are also saying that a guitar body cut (massed produced) on a C&C mill will be identical to one carved by hand by a master craftsman?


A guitar cut on a CNC can be identical to one hand made....there is really nothing special about a luthier making a guitar,,,and no they do not carve out a body by hand..you probably did not mean that..the end result would be terrible...


----------



## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

CLEARANCE! Indie Studio / IPR Solid Electric Guitars - PRS Style


----------



## luker0 (Apr 18, 2017)

Rick31797 said:


> A guitar cut on a CNC can be identical to one hand made....there is really nothing special about a luthier making a guitar,,,and no they do not carve out a body by hand..you probably did not mean that..the end result would be terrible...


A CNC machined top cannot by definition be identical to one hand carved. The hand carved one (which dozens of luthiers still do, hell factories in Asia still do) will have various differences where they sand a bit more or less in one area or another. Many handcrafted instruments are fine tuned by "feel" by a luthier to get it "just right". That level of attention to detail will most definitely end up in a much nicer instrument because of the time taken. PRS USA for example will not build a guitar in under 8 weeks, the neck alone goes through about 5 or so sanding stages over 4-5 letting the wood dry out and settle in between stages and before final assembly. The "cheap" stuff from overseas is done usually in less than week and is why many necks warp over time.


----------



## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

luker0 said:


> A CNC machined top cannot by definition be identical to one hand carved. The hand carved one (which dozens of luthiers still do, hell factories in Asia still do) will have various differences where they sand a bit more or less in one area or another. Many handcrafted instruments are fine tuned by "feel" by a luthier to get it "just right". That level of attention to detail will most definitely end up in a much nicer instrument because of the time taken. PRS USA for example will not build a guitar in under 8 weeks, the neck alone goes through about 5 or so sanding stages over 4-5 letting the wood dry out and settle in between stages and before final assembly. The "cheap" stuff from overseas is done usually in less than week and is why many necks warp over time.


Well i do not agree, not sure were you are getting your information from...and hand carve sound like they use various hand held tools to carve out a body, which is ridiculous, it does not sound like you have any woodworking experience, and i do not mean building a fence...


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)




----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

luker0 said:


> You are also saying that a guitar body cut (massed produced) on a C&C mill will be identical to one carved by hand by a master craftsman?


The one one the CNC machine can be more precise as the CNC machine cuts to preset exact specs. It is not affected by lack of sleep, worries at home, etc, etc. Besides, the subject of wood in an electrical guitar is a worn out discussion.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

luker0 said:


> A CNC machined top cannot by definition be identical to one hand carved. The hand carved one (which dozens of luthiers still do, hell factories in Asia still do) will have various differences* where they sand a bit more or less in one area or another.*


Which has what effect on the sound produced? Please provide a side by side comparison with all other variables exactly the same.


----------



## luker0 (Apr 18, 2017)

Rick31797 said:


> Well i do not agree, not sure were you are getting your information from...and hand carve sound like they use various hand held tools to carve out a body, which is ridiculous, it does not sound like you have any woodworking experience, and i do not mean building a fence...


So you are saying the person in this video is not hand carving?





How about this one? At the 11:02 mark, he's not hand carving that neck?


----------



## luker0 (Apr 18, 2017)

Steadfastly said:


> Which has what effect on the sound produced? Please provide a side by side comparison with all other variables exactly the same.


Thickness of wood will definitely affect the tone of the instrument. The whole point of a guitar is to vibrate and allow the vibration of the strings. If the two are identical except shape and thickness they will be different in sound. That would be why a flying V with the same pickups as a Les Paul or a hollow body (extreme example) sounds completely different to the other three.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

luker0 said:


> Thickness of wood will definitely affect the tone of the instrument. The whole point of a guitar is to vibrate and allow the vibration of the strings. If the two are identical except shape and thickness they will be different in sound. That would be why a flying V with the same pickups as a Les Paul or a hollow body (extreme example) sounds completely different to the other three.


You are not talking apple and apples. Those are totally different shapes and likely different hardware. 

A member here changed the pups from his Gibson to his EPI and said it sounded the same. I'm sure there were some subtle differences in the wood but not enough to make a noticeable difference. 

If you ever do a truly complete side by side, completely true scientific test with data from an anechoic chamber, please reply with the test results.


----------



## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

luker0 said:


> So what you are saying is that materials don't matter at all in a guitar build? So say you have three identical guitars one with a plastic nut, one with a bone nut and one with a brass nut and they will all sound exactly the same? You are also saying that a guitar body cut (massed produced) on a C&C mill will be identical to one carved by hand by a master craftsman?


Yes we all know materials matter, in terms of quality that is, not always in terms of tone...

One thing is for sure - a cnc guitar part will always be exactly what you tell it to be, if you scan the top of a '59 Les Paul and press the right buttons, perfect '59 Les Paul tops will pop out all day long. 



luker0 said:


> A CNC machined top cannot by definition be identical to one hand carved. The hand carved one (which dozens of luthiers still do, hell factories in Asia still do) will have various differences where they sand a bit more or less in one area or another. Many handcrafted instruments are fine tuned by "feel" by a luthier to get it "just right". That level of attention to detail will most definitely end up in a much nicer instrument because of the time taken. PRS USA for example will not build a guitar in under 8 weeks, the neck alone goes through about 5 or so sanding stages over 4-5 letting the wood dry out and settle in between stages and before final assembly. The "cheap" stuff from overseas is done usually in less than week and is why many necks warp over time.


Right, a cnc top will be perfect every time and a hand made top will not be perfect, every time.

Anyone who builds guitars and (a) understands cnc's and 3-d modeling and (b) has the cash and work to support it, will toss the hand tools and use the machine almost every time.

Your mention of PRS makes this very point - every single part of a PRS is cnc made, and as they have proven, combining cnc with sound woodworking principals like aging and allowing parts to settle produces a top quality instrument, every time.



luker0 said:


> So you are saying the person in this video is not hand carving?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He's hand carving a top because he doesn't have or can't afford a duplicarver or a cnc or because he thinks less than perfect is better, if I told him to bring his wood to my shop and throw it on the cnc and have a coffee while it cuts a perfect top for him in 12 minutes, he'd toss the tools.



luker0 said:


> Thickness of wood will definitely affect the tone of the instrument. The whole point of a guitar is to vibrate and allow the vibration of the strings. If the two are identical except shape and thickness they will be different in sound. That would be why a flying V with the same pickups as a Les Paul or a hollow body (extreme example) sounds completely different to the other three.


You know that with a solid body guitar that if the wood is vibrating, the the strings are vibrating less than they could, right?


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

U


luker0 said:


> So what you are saying is that materials don't matter at all in a guitar build? So say you have three identical guitars one with a plastic nut, one with a bone nut and one with a brass nut and they will all sound exactly the same? You are also saying that a guitar body cut (massed produced) on a C&C mill will be identical to one carved by hand by a master craftsman?


No, I'm saying what I wrote, no reading between the lines, no double entendre. Just cold Book Antiqua fonts spelling words that mean what they mean.
But if I have to explain, then I'll let you know that up here, geetars are carved by beavers and mice for the intricate finish work. The tone ... you wouldn't believe it ! Organic !

Is this thread slippin' or what ?


----------



## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)




----------



## luker0 (Apr 18, 2017)

Steadfastly said:


> You are not talking apple and apples. Those are totally different shapes and likely different hardware.
> 
> A member here changed the pups from his Gibson to his EPI and said it sounded the same. I'm sure there were some subtle differences in the wood but not enough to make a noticeable difference.
> 
> If you ever do a truly complete side by side, completely true scientific test with data from an anechoic chamber, please reply with the test results.


You mean like this study.
http://www.music.mcgill.ca/caml/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=publications:isma2014_freour.pdf


----------



## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

LOL....to get back on track, you've posted the guitar for sale in all the right places and the ad looks good to me. If you want it to sell, try lowering the price 



Jimmy_D said:


>


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

luker0 said:


> You mean like this study.
> http:
> //www.music.mcgill.ca/caml/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=publications:isma2014_freour.pdf


I don't know why I even bothered to reply. Your post only makes your argument look more inept and you sucked Mario in as well. That study is on an acoustic guitar which is a whole different animal than what we are talking about. 

Adios.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

luker0 said:


> Thickness of wood will definitely affect the tone of the instrument. The whole point of a guitar is to vibrate and allow the vibration of the strings. If the two are identical except shape and thickness they will be different in sound. That would be why a flying V with the same pickups as a Les Paul or a hollow body (extreme example) sounds completely different to the other three.


I'll just warn you, Steadly is a terrible person to reason with. It appears that much of his knowledge is in window washing and trolling, not much in the way of guitars. It'll all end up the same as his other million threads on this subject.


----------



## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

Luker, Thats a terrible video...that guy is a hacker...he is taking a chisel to it because he does not have a proper machine to do it...
I guess you do not know what a real master carver can do....


----------



## luker0 (Apr 18, 2017)

vadsy said:


> I'll just warn you, Steadly is a terrible person to reason with. It appears that much of his knowledge is in window washing and trolling, not much in the way of guitars. It'll all end up the same as his other million threads on this subject.


He's resorted to name calling so the troll reference is now obvious and I won't bother replying to him as that way leads madness.


----------



## luker0 (Apr 18, 2017)

Rick31797 said:


> Luker, Thats a terrible video...that guy is a hacker...he is taking a chisel to it because he does not have a proper machine to do it...
> I guess you do not know what a real master carver can do....


You calling Randall Wyn Fullmer a hack 

There are many other examples of people using hand tools to finish rough cuts on carved tops. Hell PRS uses CNC to rough cut all their bodies and necks, but then resort to hand finish them. Taking their time as mentioned above to help stabilize the final product. That makes a difference in the instrument.


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

luker0 said:


> You mean like this study.
> http://www.music.mcgill.ca/caml/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=publications:isma2014_freour.pdf


Do you even read the posts before you answer whatever goes through your head ?


BGood said:


> I just don't believe in Fairy Dust, tonewood, dinosaur bone nut, Tibetan capacitors, magical headsock logos and such, *for an electric.*
> Seems that the delusion remedy you mention, works well for you. Good ...


Or did you take two of those pills this morning ? Read the bottle label, it might help.



Jeez this is fun ...


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

If I didnt know better I would say there are a bunch of dudes posting who should be off playing guitar instead. 

Pretty sure this thread has had its questions answered anyway...


----------



## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

luker0 said:


> You calling Randall Wyn Fullmer a hack
> 
> There are many other examples of people using hand tools to finish rough cuts on carved tops. Hell PRS uses CNC to rough cut all their bodies and necks, but then resort to hand finish them. Taking their time as mentioned above to help stabilize the final product. That makes a difference in the instrument.



OKKK...Whatever you think...


----------



## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

capnjim said:


> My 300$ Cort is as nice and as well built as any guitar made. Period.


----------



## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

And that guy said that I was trying to justify my purchase LOL


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I think yous guys should discuss hand-relic'ing, a la Tom Murphy, vs CNC relic'ing, a la Fender. 

The train is off the tracks but not all the way down the ravine yet. 



And, as always, play what you like and like what you play. You could just ignore others that don't get what you do. There are infinite levels of perception and many different shades of 'good enough' out there....


----------



## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

BGood said:


> This is far from a beginner/intermediate guitar. It is really well crafted instrument, ebony fretboard, Grover tuners, great Alnico sounding pups, etc. Much better built than my PRS SE.
> 
> FS: - 2015 Indie Studio Thru Black (Formerly IPR Solid)


Then sell the PRS, likely for more money, and keep the better guitar.


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Roryfan said:


> Then sell the PRS, likely for more money, and keep the better guitar.


Oh oh oh no ... 
The PRS has Sanford Magnetics P90 heavenly tone pups in it. This one isn't going anywhere.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I think of CNC machines as being tools for production efficiency. I think they strive for CONSISTENCY and production speed, not perfection. they do not add or enhance any other quality. At the same time, I'm not convinced that manual labour assures perfection either. So IMO this debate is a moot point.

FWIW, when discussing differences in sound between bone nuts, plastic nuts, brass, body shapes etc...well, ive been playing fro about 30 years, and I'm not sure I can hear the difference. I'm even more skeptical that _someone listening (not playing)_ would perceive a difference..esp through an amp, overdriven, reverb, delay etc.
That said, I still do prefer to buy more expensive instruments 1) for their resale 2) because I can afford it 3) because there are other intangible qualities to them that I do appreciate...but these qualities are rarely auditory in nature.

I don't know why anyone feels the need to impose their beliefs on anyone else though. I say that _I CANT_ perceive certain differences. I'm not speaking for you or anyone else. Nor should anyone else be dictating that someone should be paying less or more for their instruments.
Perception and value is a personal thing. I know some guys that have bought a beautiful, and beautiful sounding car like a Lamborghini and immediately had the stock exhaust replaced with a "better sounding" aftermarket one. To others, it would be sacrilege...and to others, the whole thing is insanity as "no one needs" a car for anything more than going from A to B.
its all in what you appreciate/can justify.

as for the OP's conundrum, some marques depreciate like a rock, some do not. its sometimes unrelated to their quality, but the demand for the marque. Sorry if you bought one of the former ...but if theres any consolation, you didn't likely pay a premium for the item in the same way one of less depreciating ones would have. and theres no point in preaching too much about how great something that youre selling is...theres a reason its not one of those items youd never part with, which doesn't mean its bad, just ...not exceptional. Fair or not, something is worth what the market will pay for it. period. if you disagree with that, then take it off the market and keep it in your own personal market where you can value it as highly as youd like.


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

After 6 pages of ... whatever was commented on this subject, I realized that I would NEVER find as good a guitar for that kind of money. I play it more and more and it steadily grows on me. So it's not going anywhere.


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

BGood said:


> After 6 pages of ... whatever was commented on this subject, I realized that I would NEVER find as good a guitar for that kind of money. I play it more and more and it steadily grows on me. So it's not going anywhere.


I almost believed what I was saying there. But when I got my Epi LP Ultra 1 last week, it settled the fate of the Indie.
Sold it this morning for the asking price.

So for the next month, this is what's going to be played at the summer cottage. all the other stayed back at the studio.


----------

