# Mackie 32 X 4 bus mixers?



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Does anyone have any experience with this board? I'm considering upgrading my system (need more channels and features) and this one looks promising.

Yes I know Allen and Heath and Soundcraft make great boards, but you pay a premium for that.


http://www.mackie.com/products/onyx4bus/splash.html


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> I've not used one, but my brother-in-law works for Westbury National show Systems. He may know something more first hand. I've sent him an @mail.
> 
> The two things I think lacking are:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the response Paul,

Onboard effects are really not a big thing to me as I really can't run my rig without my rack anyway and really one of the limiting factors of my current board is the fact that I can only patch in one external effects unit. I have an SPX90 doing nothing right now because of this. Also this is a 32 channel board so using it for smaller gigs isn't likely to happen much.

USB is also not something I need. When I record I do it in a studio. I do need a small stand alone recording device to capture basic ideas however.

The Yamaha is basically 24 channels plus four stereo channels. I'm maxed out on my 22 channel so gaining so few channels is not worth the expense and trouble. The Mackie is 28 plus 2 stereo channels.

I do like Yamaha stuff though. The Mackie is at LA in Brantford right now FYI.

I would also need to replace my snake and grab some additional power for monitors.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> If it was me, _and_ I had too much money, I'd go digital:
> 
> ...


Wow. That's one hell of a board and no rack needed.

How much is "too much"? I didn't see a price for that Yamaha.

I think the street price for the Mackie is around $2100. CAD.

The PM22 has been a fantastic board. If _I_ had "too much money", I'd be keeping it for smaller shows. I just don't have that luxury.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> Here's a review:
> 
> http://www.proaudioreview.com/pages/s.0028/t.7001.html
> 
> ...


The features and programmability are definite assets. Heck for $11,000. I'll pick up two (good to have spares).

I guess having great gear doesn't ensure a great mix. I'm not overly impressed with the FOH mix I'm heard at Sanderson lately and in talking to some performers who have appeared there, I'm not alone.

I have a programmable Stereo Graphic EQ for my mains and that has saved me lots of time ringing out the system the second time in.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> It's been 15+ years of bad audio at The Sanderson. My wife was at a teacher event a few weeks ago where there was ONE speaker on stage who was wearing a headset mic. The audio was unintelligible anywhere and everywhere in the room. In the past I have heard acts openly mock and deride the sound tech from the stage, during the show. Anytime I have been on stage there, I have always heard the excuse that "those mics don't like monitors". If Stevie Ray Vaughan can get 120dB at his ears on any stage, I should be able to get some dB on the Sanderson stage.
> 
> Partly because The Sanderson is an IATSE room, the sound job is handed out based on seniority, not skill. They are nice guys and hard workers, but some of them have cloth ears.
> 
> ...


Well the room is not the problem. That is a magnificant theatre and I have heard acts like The Rankin Family and the BSO sound beautiful there.

The problem is as you have said, it's a union theatre and the rules state that you HAVE to use their PA and their FOH soundman. That and the ridiculous price of renting the room is why I am not using it for the debut of CIC. It's a bloody shame. It's obviously the nicest room in town, but it's priced for the blue haired upper crust, not for the general population.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> True, very true. I was a follow spot operator for the first year it re-opened. I was at both nights of the Anne Murray extravaganza, I saw Gordon Lightfoot, and a host of others. They all sounded great, and they all were in control of their own systems. Co-incidence???? I wonder.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well the cost of the Sanderson for non charitable events is $5000. a night and paying their crew, whether or not I use them is a non starter. The documentation I received however indicated clearly that I would have to use them and their system. Perhaps they take liberties with their own policy.

I'm doing sound for the Harmony Square grand opening, and I assure you I'm not doing it for free. I heard from someone else last week that they weren't paying performers. Terrible, but in this case none of my business I guess.

For CIC I tried several "community" halls and ran into nothing but overpricing and lack of cooperation, including The Brant Commiunity Church down town (a beautiful room). I just never got around to the church you mentioned and was running out of time. Much to do and I had to nail down the venue.


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2007)

I have always liked the Mackie mixers though I've never used one quite that big. The new Onyx mixers are really nice. I have a small one I use at home but have taken it out a couple of times for little shows and I couldn't be happier. If I were doing bigger live shows on a regular basis I would love one of the new 80 series Onyx's. 24 up to 48 channels X 8 subs. Awesome pre-amps in my opinion.
The price tag is the killer though. Just my 2 cents.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> There's a good point in there....is 4 sub groups enough? It's 4 more than your Yorkville PM22, but if you are going to upgrade, why not pick a higher altitude? If I read the Mackie site correctly, those are 4 mono sub groups. Four stereo groups would make this board a no-brainer to pick, based on the rest of your PA and your spoken and implied needs.


I honestly think 4 subs is more than enough. I tend to be a very "hands on" mixer and really only need a sub for the drum kit and maybe one for the two channels my guitar consumes, one for voices and that's it. I suppose I could have an extra sup group for a horn section when I mix for one but four should be fine for me. It comes down to cost as well. There are always more features when you move up in the price scale.

Don't forget, I need a 32 channel snake with six returns as well as an additional 1600 watts of power for monitors to replace the onboard power I'm using with the PM22


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> I guess it matters if you run your system in stereo. I'm not a huge fan of stereo PA in general, except when it comes to stereo effects, (panning effects). Too often imaging becomes a problem. I also tend to think that every musician input will end up through a sub....so your bass and keys guys would need their own buss, in my head anyway. Obviously that's not needed. You don't really need any sub groups, they just make things nicer.
> 
> I don't mind throwing ideas out there because in the end it's not my money I'm spending. Although the more you spend upgrading your system will likely mean you want more $$$ for the PM22. I am in a quandry here. The word from by B-I-L at Westbury is that there is nothing wrong with the Mackie, they use them and sell Mackie themselves, but he loves the Yamaha digital stuff.


I run the PA in stereo. I know many people don't think it's worth the trouble and expense. That's why so few people do it. Personally I find it useful for effects but also for creating natural imaging particularly with the drum kit.

I don't _need_ sub groups but I do like having them at least for the kit and voices.

I'm not so sure I would want the bass in a sub group. I'll have to consider the advantages and I'm sure my habits would evolve to suit the capabilitiess of the board should I go ahead and pull the trigger.

Good to hear your BIL has no grave concerns about the board, thanks. I'm going to have a look at it this evening.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> Wellll?
> 
> BTW, It'd be nice if you and I could get together over a coffee, (tea for me, I'm part British), sometime soon. I am interested in your PM22, and I've got a couple of thoughts I'd like to share.


That can be done. I'm a bit busy until middle of next week (gigging tonight, rehearsing on Sunday, travelling Monday ~ Tuesday).


I had a look at the board quickly. Look great, but I'd really have to use it for a night to assess it. LA is getting me a quote on the snake. Apparently it has to be custom made (anything over 24 channels).


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> I'm pretty open, and off work from Noon on Dec. 21 to 7:00 on Jan 07. Let me know. I'll buy, as long as it ain't Starbucks. :smile:


mmmmmStarbucks.

It's worth it to me to buy just to get a decent cup of coffee.

Tim's is like American beer, AKA Love By The Lake.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> I wasn't judging quality, I'm just cheap. :smile:


Yeah Starbucks doesn't exactly give their coffee away, but it's worth it. I visit them often when on the road. Good coffee and internet access.


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## Midas (Dec 20, 2007)

Working with pro gear all the time professionally, I would suggest looking into a Soundcraft or Allen and Heath. I personally own a soundcraft for my small pa and its a nice sounding board. Mackies have their own sound. 

Their EQ section makes for most of their tones. I've used a few over the years and I'm into consoles that have bigger knobs that seen to do more over the whole frequency range.

I don't like how they submix everything. I like having many options for making submixes and do not like being forced into them. 

If you are interested in trying before you buy to actually hear boards try renting from a real Production Company { no offence to pat at la  } I could suggest the ones I go with in your area. 

Another great company is Midas. They are used on a pile of high end tours. Heck last year when I helped out with the Allman Brothers one of the drummers was using the smaller series consoles for a submix. They are expensive but they feel and sound how a board should sound. 

Everybody carries mackie and yorkville in the music stores. Few music stores can afford to bring in well made consoles. You can tell as soon as you lift a fader how well its made. Whether or not mackie is that for you is up to you.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Midas said:


> Working with pro gear all the time professionally, I would suggest looking into a Soundcraft or Allen and Heath. I personally own a soundcraft for my small pa and its a nice sounding board. Mackies have their own sound.
> 
> Their EQ section makes for most of their tones. I've used a few over the years and I'm into consoles that have bigger knobs that seen to do more over the whole frequency range.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input.

I've used many Soundcraft boards (mostly 400B) and at least two Allen and Heath and I agree they're great boards, but they're a bit like Gibson guitars, ridiculously overpriced (see my initial post). The cost merit is simply not there in terms of the added value. If Yorkville had a bigger non-powered board I'd be sticking with them.

Midas and Scorpion are even more out of my price range. I've used a Scorpion board and again, great board but not worth the premium. I mean if you want to really throw money at a FOH desk, go digital. For $10000 and up you can get automated mixes and built in virtual racks.

I've used a smaller Mackie board and really didn't have any trouble getting a clean and uncoloured sound. I know I can get what I want out of the board and the price is sensible. I'm more concerned with reliability at this point.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I picked up the board today.

It's large and has lots and lots of buttons.

The girls will like me for SURE now.

I also grabbed a rack mounted power conditioner and another Yorkville AP4020 power amp.


I've decided to keep my Yorkville PM22 fo smaller shows.


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