# EL 84 amps and Dirt Pedals



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

I have two very nice 1960s tube amps sitting here. One running EL 84s (YGM-1 Guitarmate) and one running 6V6s (YBA-2 Bassmate). I run my pedal board into the 6V6 amp and I am getting some great low volume od tones. However, I plug the exact same setup into the EL 84 amp an the od pedals sound like total crap!

I've read before the EL 84 amps can be very OD pedal unfriendly, but man this is like a night and day difference.

Anyone else found this?

TG


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## NB_Terry (Feb 2, 2006)

The Crowther HotCake is very nice with EL84 amps, also try various clean boost type pedals.


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

NB_Terry said:


> The Crowther HotCake is very nice with EL84 amps, also try various clean boost type pedals.


The AC boost into my YGM-3 sounds good to me. Better than my tubescreamer that's for sure - maybe that's why? I hadn't heard that about EL84 amps before. 
Have you tried it with a fuzz too? I like it with a bit of OD from the AC then hit it with a Fulltone 69 Ge fuzz. 
Still have to replace the speaker though...


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## bionic (Mar 31, 2008)

All of my boosts, overdrives and fuzzes love my Hayseed (vox AC 30 clone) which has Polam El 84's. In fact out of all of my amps that is easily the most pedal friendly.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I suppose there may be some basis for assuming that certain power tubes take to overdrive pedals better than others. But there is more to amp design/topography than merely the tubes used.

Looking at the schematics I have for the YGM-2, and several YBA-2s (some of which use 6BQ5 tubes, i.e., EL84), there are noteworthy several differences in their design.

One of the 6BQ5-based Bassmates goes: gain-stage, tonestack, gainstage, phase-splitter, output pair, while the other 6BQ5-based version goes: gainstage, gainstage, tonestack, phase-splitter, output pair. A 6V6-based Bassmate goes: gainstage, tonestack, phase-splitter, output pair.

The 6BQ5-based YGM-1 Guitarmate-Rev schematic I have shows: gainstage, tonestack, gainstage, phase-splitter, output pair. It also shows a lower-gain 12AU7 used for those two gainstages.

So, it is possible that the overdrive that appeals to you is not so much based on the tubes used, but rather where the overdrive is occurring, and where the harmonic content is being generated in the signal path.


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## Teleplucker (Feb 5, 2006)

I've had two EL84 amps. One was a sort of 30W modern version of a Vox with higher gain. The other was an attempt at a more vintage version of a Vox, 15W. Both have been fine with pedals.

The Hot Cake is almost always a great choice. But, I've also had luck with more TS-type circuits - Landgraff DO, Lovekraft MojoDrive, Klon, 808 RI, Boss SD-1, or Bad Monkey. A more transparent boost like a Tim or Timmy or modded BD-2 is great with these too. Currently, I'm swapping between a Tim, OD-3, and MojoDrive. I think the Red Snapper is a great OD, but I liked it much better with a Deluxe Reverb style amp.

Spam...do an eBay search, there is a Hot Cake for sale with no reserve a mere 3 hours south of you :wave:.


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## hoser (Feb 2, 2006)

try a ts-9


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## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

My Maz Jr 18 w EL84 amp loves the hotcake.


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2008)

LowWatt said:


> My Maz Jr 18 w EL84 amp loves the hotcake.


Yea, but has does it feel about cold tea?


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

I realize its an overgeneralization to make statements about "EL 84 amps." Much will depend on the circuit. However, many EL 84 amps have an upper mid emphasis, especially through a "blue" inspired speaker, and I've read posts make similar claims to mine.

I should also note that I ONLY use OD pedals in low volume practice situations. Both of my amps sound unbelievable when cranked up and I just ride my guitar's volume knob to range from clean to dirty. The differences/difficulties I am hearing with my amps cannot be explained by how they inherently break up.

TG


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## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

iaresee said:


> Yea, but has does it feel about cold tea?


After 2 am after leaving Grossmans on Spadina, he feels just fine about cold tea. Just fine.


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

traynor_garnet said:


> I should also note that I ONLY use OD pedals in low volume practice situations.


So (I'm speculating) the differences you're noting likely come about because of differences in the pre-amps, not the power tubes. Does that make sense?


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

Disclaimer: I am only talking about my personal experience with a specific amp here, but maybe this can help you save the money that I spent. I also should mention that I typically play rather loud so the amp is breaking up already so I simply found a lot of these pedals redundant...

I literally spent thousands of dollars searching for drive pedals that meshed with the AC30TB RI. Some were much better than others, but most of them are great with my Fender. I know it's more about the overall circuit (which the tube is a major part of) but I can tell you that this amp is definitley more mid-focussed. This is both a blessing and a curse.

I tried a lot of 808's and 9's (Ver.1 FDII, 808RI, Keeley 808 w/TB, TS9RI...) and didn't get good results at all. I found they masked the brilliance of the amp and the mids just became too much. (You might find better results with newer versions of the FDII that have the switch...) The infamous bass cut didn't help either. This is why I would look into pedals with more versatile tone capabilities. The AC Booster has that characteristic TS sound, but it has both treb and bass knobs. After about 30 expensive drive pedals, I would reccommend this one.

You might also check out:

-Hotcake- I found this to be very brittle (bass cut) and unusable past 12:00/1:00 on the drive knob but a lot of great guitar players swear by it. Boutique Tone actually appears to have stock!

-Keeley BD-2- Nice even response. Slight bass boost there if you need it. Nice, usable gain range. A little fizzy, but nothing like a stock BD-2.

-Linear boost pedals. A ZVex SHO/2in1 or an RC Booster are indispensible.

I would imagine that the Xotic AC/RC combo would help you out. If you are playing quietly, this will give you the ability to dial in the bass/treble perfectly for any volume you are playing at. Perfect for dialing into different amps too! This might be good if you are using both amps regularly.

If you'd like to know anything else that I tried, just let me know...


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

LowWatt said:


> My Maz Jr 18 w EL84 amp loves the hotcake.


My Maz 38 w el84 has done exceptionally well with any od I've used. Of course I've only used a TS9 and my current Wampler Hotwired.


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

A Klon in a low volume, standalone OD situation? I know it's a great pedal to boost a loud, naturally overdriven amp, but a lot of guys say the OD section is so-so. That's a lot of money to gamble too. I guess if you find one used, you won't lose much on it though...


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

jroberts said:


> Try it with a Klon.  You won't be disappointed.



A while ago I heard about the klon. I asked about it at L&M but they never heard of it. I couldn't find it anywhere. 
I doubt I'd get rid of my hotwired pedal right now as I'm quite happy with it. But mostly I am trying to keep the number of pedals between my guitar and amp to a minimum (4 right now) and the hotwired has 2 channels allowing me 2 different over drive settings. 1. slightly overdriven and 2. high gain.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

jroberts said:


> No, the Klon shines when you get the amp working a bit. Not audibly overdriven; just pushing it some. I guess I just assumed guitarman2 plays out.


Yes I do play out. I push the Maz 38 pretty hard. I bought it hoping for the clean head room. At the volume I play at, clean headroom starts to wane a bit when the amp is hot (believe it or not) I love the tone so much it doesn't really bother me. I did replace the rectifier with an NOS Valvo which really seemed to help. When I get my Dr Z Stangray in a couple weeks, I hope to be able to push that for an early break up.


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

traynor_garnet said:


> I should also note that I ONLY use OD pedals in low volume practice situations. Both of my amps sound unbelievable when cranked up and I just ride my guitar's volume knob to range from clean to dirty. The differences/difficulties I am hearing with my amps cannot be explained by how they inherently break up.
> 
> TG


Okay... Well this is what I was responding to. Of course the klon is great, but it sounds like we're looking for a pedal for low volume situations here.


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

Ha ha. It looks like we're all agreed then!

:food-smiley-004:


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Maybe you can try a boost just to push your lamps and keep away the dirt box! I know that Solidgold soundlab has designed a booster especialy for the EL84, just look on his site! :

Minmo


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## Stevo (Apr 3, 2008)

I have had some bad experiences with OD pedals and EL84 amps as well. With the AC30 I had previously and the Boogie Lonestar Special I have now, Boss OD's and Tubescreamers just sucked the tone out of the amp. One OD pedal that does sound great with the Boogie (well, any amp really) is a Fulltone Fulldrive. It is a great, transparent distortion. I think the OD's that colour the sound less work better with EL84 amps in my opinion.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

One of the things you need to look for in whatever OD/Booster you use with your amp is either the inherent tone-shaping or else the tonal-reshaping capabilities. The quality of the OD you get from the amp is always always ALWAYS a function of what you feed it. The input signal needs to be prepared to complement the amp, not function in spite of it.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I've found the Fulltone OCD to be quite "amp-neutral". I've used it with Boogies, old Fenders, and a DSL401 (EL84) to great success.


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