# So much for "harmless replicas"



## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

I never want to hear anyone try to tell me "but as long as they sell it as a copy...".

This is a long one so buckle up.

*Part 1*
I have a $3000 guitar listed on kijiji. About 5 weeks ago, some guy (we'll call Slash) offers me a Gibson Slash AFD Prototype in trade. There were some things that checked out but enough that looked off that I asked for more photos. Here are the bigger photos he sent me (I asked for specific things, like the frets and headstock).

























































I know from these, it seems pretty obvious but tell me what you think about these...

















So I let Slash know that it's a counterfeit. He says "I had no idea. I got it from my uncle. How can you be sure?" I told him;

"It has the same cheap case the Chinese copies come in, the headstock logo is wrong (should say Les Paul Model), the truss rod cover should have the Slash signature on it, the fret binding is wrong, it should have the Slash logo on the back of the headstock, the Slash “Appetite” model came out in 2020 to 2022 but your serial number dates it to 2008. I also called Gibson and that serial number comes back to a Les Paul Studio."

He said he wasn't sure what most of what I said even meant so he would contact Gibson and if it was, maybe he'd just hang it on the wall. A week later, he replied "You were right. This was a counterfeit. Got a reply from Gibson today confirming. Apologies once again." This was September 21st.

*Part 2*
A couple days ago, some dude in Ottawa (we'll call him Burn) posts a FB ad selling his large collection including a bunch of Gibsons. There are photos, including a staircase lined with hanging guitars, but not detailed images and no detailed descriptions. Then last night, he posts an ad for a Slash AFD Prototype for $2900. The photos show it's the same guitar from 5 weeks ago. I send him a message, breaking the bad news and offer to send him all the screen grabs proving that Slash admitted he knew 100% that it was fake. I asked if that's who he got it from because if so, there's a chance he'd have some recourse. He sad no, it was a different person and he traded a Strat for it. I send him the info and offer to assist any way I can.

*Part 3 (the good part)*
I go to Slash's kijiji profile and see an ad for some fitness equipment. I message him and here's the first part of the exchange;

What ever happened with the Les Paul?
_Ended up selling it for 800$_
Well, the guy you sold it to passed it off as a legit Gibson and defrauded someone out of $3000.
_That's very unfortunate. Same thing happened with me with it. The guitar was good quality so it was kinda hard to tell. I tried to make Kijiji posts and FB posts saying not to buy this guitar as original but they deleted it._
Funny. You told me you got it “passed down from your uncle”.
_Yeah it was a story I made up to sell it but a heart change mid way._
Well if you’ve really had a “heart change” you can help the last guy out by passing on the contact info of the guy you sold it to.
_Yeah I'm trying to find it. He was from Ottawa and told me he's getting it for his wall to decorate. He even had a staircase with 6-7 Gibson guitars as his Facebook photo so I believed him._

Hmmm, staircase you say? 
Go on...


So one of you is lying because that is definitely the guy selling it now as legit but he says it wasn’t from you. He said he traded a Strat for it.
I think he’s definitely lying about how he got it.
_Do what you want with it. I sold it to him for 800$. This is the guy (Facebook profile for Burn)_
Do you have any screen grabs of a conversation where you told him it was a replica? Basically, I want to get him tossed off our local “Musicians buy and sell group”

The link he sent was to "Burn's" FB profile and he also sends me a screenshot of his conversation with Burn. The title was "Very High Quality Gibson Les Paul Slash Counterfeit". Here is the exchange between Slash and Burn;

Hey Burn, yes it's still available
_Fantastic..I want it. The only issue is I'm currently in Halifax until Thursday night..can i put a deposit of $100 and then purchase it friday afternoon?_
Yes, that works.
_Fantastic.,.please send me your email for the deposit. My cell is 613xxxxxxx and we can communicate for friday via text._
Before I do that, you've read the description right?
_*Yes it is a counterfeit*_
Yeah ok. Just wanted to make sure. Email is [email protected]
Then, the $100 transfer is completed and on September 23rd, Burn buys the counterfeit.

So basically, an "honest" seller advertises it as a fake, prices it as a fake, sells it as a fake, and in just over 3 weeks, it's for sale as the real thing at $3k. Anytime someone makes the argument that "as long as I advertise it as a fake and I'm honest, I don't see the problem". I always have the same reply. "No matter how honest YOU are, somewhere down the line, this guitar WILL be sold as the real thing and someone will get screwed out of a lot of money." In this case, it only took one transaction and 3 weeks.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Holy handgrenades.

That right there is down right criminal that is.

I just firmly planted myself in camp counterfeits can die.

Nice leg work on it man!


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

So, is this stuff punishable by law or just buyer beware?


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Wow. This is why I will never buy a used Gibson online.

Also, hot damn is that a convincing forgery. Right down to the case candy and documentation. Yikes.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

2manyGuitars said:


> _This is the guy__ Log into Facebook_


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 443430


That was me. I purposely removed his actual profile. He's still on there and still has other guitars for sale.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Doug Gifford said:


> So, is this stuff punishable by law or just buyer beware?


We'll see. I had a nice phone conversation with the guy who runs the Ottawa Gear Buy and Sell FB group. He's going to ban the guy but also said he's going to call the police as this is an outright attempt to commit fraud. He doubts they'll do anything but we'll see. The fist guy, Slash, filed a report with the Ottawa Police on the the guy HE got scammed by but said he didn't think they could do much. The BIG difference though is that in that case, they can't prove the seller knew it was fake. In this case, there's a screen shot of Burn saying "Yes it is a counterfeit" 3 weeks before listing it as a $3000 Gibson.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

Doug Gifford said:


> So, is this stuff punishable by law or just buyer beware?


I always thought it was illegal to sell or resell counterfeit.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I really don't mind saying I told you so.

The very existence of these fakes creates a high probability that someone someday will rip somebody off passing them off as legit.

The second they apply the name Gibson or Fender to the headstock, they're setting up someone to get scammed.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

I mean, Chinese copies are a thing. But if you knowingly end up with one and choose to resell it, then have some decency and at least sand the logo off. Or I've heard of some people using a wood burning tool to stencil "counterfeit" on it someplace. Or take the "made in USA" and serial number off the back of the headstock. FFS.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Derek_T said:


> I always thought it was illegal to sell or resell counterfeit.


It is but it's like hundreds of other crimes that have just become "oh well..."


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> I mean, Chinese copies are a thing. But if you knowingly end up with one and choose to resell it, then have some decency and at least sand the logo off. Or I've heard of some people using a wood burning tool to stencil "counterfeit" on it someplace. Or take the "made in USA" and serial number off the back of the headstock. FFS.


Another thing I've told owners...
Mark "replica" on the back of the headstock. If you are an "honest seller", there is zero downside to this. If you're already selling as a fake at "fake prices", then this won't affect the resale vale. And even if you want it to use onstage, nobody will ever see the back of the headstock.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

2manyGuitars said:


> It is but it's like hundreds of other crimes that have just become "oh well..."



Well, certainly many, including law enforcement and customs and border officers seem inclined to turn a blind eye to this.

Then again, people still support thieves who steal guitars from us by buying hot merchandise. Sorry to sound preachy, but if you knowingly buy a hot guitar, you're only one small step from being a thief yourself.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

Milkman said:


> Sorry to sound preachy, but if you knowingly buy a hot guitar, you're only one small step from being a thief yourself.


I also thought buying stolen stuff to be illegal, even though you did not steal it in the first place. So it does not sound preachy to me as much as factual.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

You have to wonder how many of these transactions occur everyday.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Milkman said:


> I really don't mind saying I told you so.
> The very existence of these fakes creates a high probability that someone someday will rip somebody off passing them off as legit.


And I really don't mind you saying you said this.


Milkman said:


> Well, certainly many, including law enforcement and customs and border officers seem inclined to turn a blind eye to this.


Just look at this site and the FB Group where this was advertised. The rules say fakes are okay as long as it's disclosed. After talking to the mod of the FB group for a while today, he said he might have to rethink that stance.

Bottom line, if sellers have multiple places (here, Facebook, kijiji, etc.) where they can freely sell these, why wouldn't they order one, two, maybe a half-dozen $250 fakes and sell them here for $500, $600, or more? With no restrictions on selling them, there's nothing to slow the flow of these spreading out in the wild. That's more and more chances of someone committing fraud.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Paul Running said:


> You have to wonder how many of these transactions occur everyday.


Lots. Because many sites, including this one, allow it.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

How can they possibly monitor all activity. Tik-tok has videos showing people how to scam ATMs and other illegal activities; my son showed me some of these videos and it's unbelievable what's going on.


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## MetalTele79 (Jul 20, 2020)

Well, "Burn" is a real turd. Thanks for doing the research and collecting the evidence. I hope the police at least pay them a visit regarding their attempted fraud.


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

He’s deleted his ad after doing 3 changes to item description.

I’ve seen this guy doing a ton of deals on Kijiji, he’s probably a member or lurker here and saw this post.


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## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

Should look like this.

The trc on the Slash copy looks sloppy and cramped where it meets the nut.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

2manyGuitars said:


> It is but it's like hundreds of other crimes that have just become "oh well..."


If someone bought it from Burn, they could take him to court.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Parabola said:


> He’s deleted his ad after doing 3 changes to item description.
> 
> I’ve seen this guy doing a ton of deals on Kijiji, he’s probably a member or lurker here and saw this post.


Got a link to his Kijiji profile? I want to keep an eye on this fella.


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## bobartlarry (Dec 3, 2016)

I don't know what to look for with fake cases. Any telltale signs you can share?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I see counterfeits being sold on FB Market place all the time. The ones I see notice are listed as counterfeit. Personally I would want nothing to do with them.


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

The fact you can read the letters on the COA is the biggest indicator it's fake.


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## Permanent Waves (Jun 2, 2020)

This thread raises an interesting point on the integrity of buyers and sellers. I saw a Phillip McKnight video a while back where he is stamping a fake Duvell and rubbing out the logo, which is something people should do in this case. You cannot stop the spread of increasingly-authentic fakes but you can educate people (in threads such as these) and help "stamp out" the proliferation through unscrupulous sellers. The "Staircase Seller" had another dubious blue LP and I think anyone willing to lay down $2900 on a guitar needs to do some due diligence to educate themselves, but at the same time calling out a seller knowingly selling a fake priced as the real thing is a good idea. 

This reminds me of something that happened to me. In the late 80's I bought a fake Rick 4001 for about $200. It was a reasonably authentic neck-through but I knew it was fake because the nameplate said Joo-Dee, the inlay material was wrong and it had only one truss rod - all pretty easy tell tales. I sold it a year later for about what I paid for it to help pay for my first car. Many years later I walk into Retrotown and there was a Ric there with a real nameplate but clearly advertised as a fake on display for educational purposes. I was told the buyer had been fooled, and if that body was not my old Joo-Dee, it must have been its twin because it looked exactly the same.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Parabola said:


> He’s deleted his ad after doing 3 changes to item description.
> I’ve seen this guy doing a ton of deals on Kijiji, he’s probably a member or lurker here and saw this post.


After I told him he “unknowingly” bought a counterfeit, he said he’d pull the ad until he can verify.


Okay Player said:


> Got a link to his Kijiji profile? I want to keep an eye on this fella.


As of a couple hours ago, he still had a few other guitars listed but they’re ALL gone now.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Permanent Waves said:


> I think anyone willing to lay down $2900 on a guitar needs to do some due diligence to educate themselves, but at the same time calling out a seller knowingly selling a fake priced as the real thing is a good idea.


I spotted a couple signs but even a somewhat savvy Gibson buyer might be fooled by this. I’ve _never_ seen a Chibson with these...


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

And this was from the dirtbag seller’s ad...


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

bobartlarry said:


> I don't know what to look for with fake cases. Any telltale signs you can share?


It can be tough to tell by phot alone, right away from the photos I would say:

It is shaped like an Epiphone case, it doesn’t have the same texture and sheen on the tolex as a Gibson case. The handle looks off, as do the latches. It’s not arched, and the decals are not the correct size and position.

The interior colour is off, the plush material looks too compressed and it doesn’t hug the guitar body in the same was an an OEM case. The storage compartment doesn’t seem positioned properly and the grab tab looks off. The interior around the headstock also doesn’t look properly padded.


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

2manyGuitars said:


> And this was from the dirtbag seller’s ad...
> 
> View attachment 443443
> 
> ...


Blanks of these Documents are available on eBay, as are case candy bags with the warranty cards etc.

That these are legible is the red alert.


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## Abiguitar (May 28, 2009)

Wow! Thanks for this story.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

2manyGuitars said:


> I spotted a couple signs but even a somewhat savvy Gibson buyer might be fooled by this. I’ve _never_ seen a Chibson with these...
> View attachment 443440
> 
> View attachment 443439


Did I miss something? I thought it wasn’t a “Chibson”, I thought the serial number said it was an 08 Studio. So isn’t this a sup’ed up LP Studio?
Or did they just reuse a legit Gibson serial number on a 100% fake?


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

Abiguitar said:


> Wow! Thanks for this story.


I think you are confusing that seller with the one being discussed here.

I’ve done several deals with the other guy and he is legit and a good guy. In fact I think a few of us here have dealt with him, as I know 2 of the guitars I bought from him, passed though the hands of others here.


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

SWLABR said:


> Did I miss something? I thought it wasn’t a “Chibson”, I thought the serial number said it was an 08 Studio. So isn’t this a sup’ed up LP Studio?
> Or did they just reuse a legit Gibson serial number on a 100% fake?


Using existing serial numbers is pretty common on Chibsons. They never match the model.


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## Permanent Waves (Jun 2, 2020)

I think it is a good idea in threads like these for people to share information on how they spot the fakes (even if it gets repetitive) to help educate newer users. I found the case information very useful because I am not knowledgeable enough to spot a fake case. The truss rod cover fitting detail was also very interesting. This one did not have the slotted bridge posts that so many fakes have (like the blue one had), but here are the details I picked up on with my relatively uneducated eyes: 


No nibs at the ends of the frets is usually the dead giveaway. That is one detail that is expensive for counterfeiters to invest the time to do.
To my eyes, the serial numbers were too clearly defined and seemed to be stamped post-finishing - real ones usually have more lacquer in them.
The TRC looked fake, as if the while layer does not seem as apparent as on real ones.
Putting black stuff in the case to hide the headstock shape is very sketchy.


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## Pat James (5 mo ago)

Good investigative work on this.. The problem with replicas (aside from those who just buy to trick others and sell them as legit) is that the rest of people who buy them want something that is close to the real thing. If you want the real thing, buy the real thing so that this stops happening. There is no reason to buy a replica unless you want to be a poser.


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

Permanent Waves said:


> I think it is a good idea in threads like these for people to share information on how they spot the fakes (even if it gets repetitive) to help educate newer users. I found the case information very useful because I am not knowledgeable enough to spot a fake case. The truss rod cover fitting detail was also very interesting. This one did not have the slotted bridge posts that so many fakes have (like the blue one had), but here are the details I picked up on with my relatively uneducated eyes:
> 
> 
> No nibs at the ends of the frets is usually the dead giveaway. That is one detail that is expensive for counterfeiters to invest the time to do.
> ...


As 2many pointed out, there were some obvious things about it, and some things that looked legit. Sometimes a seller will say it was a prototype or custom/demo whatever, to help them explain away the things that don’t look right.

Another tell is to remove the truss cover, the rod and nut themselves are different that the legitimate ones, and you can often see the screwed up finish/construction etc on the exposed neck area. Same in the control cavities.

too bad we can’t get our hands on this one and do a detailed video on what to look for.


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## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

Theyre just ugly and dont have that je ne sais quoi about them. Theres a certain spirit instilled in a Gibson that can't be copied.
The higher end guys know but keep silent because theyre i told you so's become redundant and too late for the novice buyers.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

2manyGuitars said:


> I spotted a couple signs but even a somewhat savvy Gibson buyer might be fooled by this. I’ve _never_ seen a Chibson with these...
> View attachment 443440
> 
> View attachment 443439


I would definitely be fooled.

They're getting better and better - down to a few "tell-tales". I did see a couple things that looked "off" - but not enough for me to proclaim fakery. The scary thing is, how long before even those couple of things are addressed. How hard would it be to set up a website that shows a fake "legitimate" description of the guitars you're trying to move. A few bucks to Google and you're the first site that due-diligence seekers find. 

These crooks are going to greater lengths than Gibson does to make a guitar 😕


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## alphasports (Jul 14, 2008)

Excellent case study in buyer-beware here, thanks for the legwork. As I was going thru the initial post with pics I was saying to myself "looks ok, looks ok, looks ok..." but it was only at the end when you mentioned the actual issues that I looked again...it's all stuff I already knew but I scanned too fast and missed it all, just like sometimes happens when you're F2F with a used guitar, you don't want to spend a ton of time chatting up the seller, you just want to decide "yes" or "no", pay, and get the hell on your way.

So thanks for the lesson in taking my time...next time!

Cheers


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Yeah good work here, read like a juicy novel.

That LP certainly looks pretty good in pics and I think I would also be fooled. But a nickel says playing it would reveal its Chinese origins in less than a planck length of time. This is why I never buy a guitar w/o trying it out realtime first.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

FatStrat2 said:


> Yeah good work here, read like a juicy novel.
> 
> That LP certainly looks pretty good in pics and I think I would also be fooled. But a nickel says playing it would reveal its Chinese origins in less than a planck length of time. This is why I never buy a guitar w/o trying it out realtime first.



I'll wager a decent set up would make that face to face analysis far less obvious.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

It would be great if there was a section of the forums for Fakes / Copies. The same way there's a section for stolen gear.

When someone spot a fake we could list it there so other members could check this section before a purchase to know if it had already been identified.

It's easier to track the guitars than the sellers, as anyone can create accounts.


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

allthumbs56 said:


> I would definitely be fooled.
> 
> They're getting better and better - down to a few "tell-tales". I did see a couple things that looked "off" - but not enough for me to proclaim fakery. The scary thing is, how long before even those couple of things are addressed. How hard would it be to set up a website that shows a fake "legitimate" description of the guitars you're trying to move. A few bucks to Google and you're the first site that due-diligence seekers find.
> 
> These crooks are going to greater lengths than Gibson does to make a guitar 😕


The thing with scams is that they often give you enough believable things to offset the things that might tip you off. Like bank scams…”you account has been compromised, click here to protect your account “.

In this case, the believable part was the documentation. So that’s a good thing to note for each of us now, it’s not that is a sophisticated detail, like a reproduction decal or component. They are using the legit stuff that a lot of people throw away to add to the confidence in the item.


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

Just my opinion but I don't think there's such a thing as a harmless replica and I cringe at all of the partscasters I see with Fender decals on them (including on this site). It muddies the waters to the point where I get concerned about even considering buying a Fender or Gibson, especially a Fender. Fender make a lot of variants and it's way too hard to keep up with all of them in fine detail. The person choosing to put on the decal may promise not to misrepresent it but once it moves on to future owners that promise doesn't mean anything anymore.


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

FatStrat2 said:


> Yeah good work here, read like a juicy novel.
> 
> That LP certainly looks pretty good in pics and I think I would also be fooled. But a nickel says playing it would reveal its Chinese origins in less than a planck length of time. This is why I never buy a guitar w/o trying it out realtime first.


Again this is the prototype angle, you might say to yourself, “this feels or sounds off, but hey it is a pre production prototype, so they didn’t work out the bugs”.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I think Milk has a point.

If this Slash dude took $100 of his previous profits (or had the chops to do it himself), a good setup would fool quite a few more people than it does now. My wager would go up from a nickel to $1.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Jim Soloway said:


> I get concerned about even considering buying a Fender or Gibson, especially a Fender.


Counterfeits are definitely is lowering the resale value of Gibsons because there is no way in hell I would buy a used Gibson without someone with expert knowledge to vet it.

And you're right about Fenders, how can you guess what parts they have now?

My partscaster has a non-Fender logo, but if someone else owned it, that could be changed easily. I'll be dead then!


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## Westhaver (Jul 26, 2015)

2manyGuitars said:


> "It has the same cheap case the Chinese copies come in, the headstock logo is wrong (should say Les Paul Model), the truss rod cover should have the Slash signature on it, the fret binding is wrong, it should have the Slash logo on the back of the headstock, the Slash “Appetite” model came out in 2020 to 2022 but your serial number dates it to 2008. I also called Gibson and that serial number comes back to a Les Paul Studio."


Just to clarify, the original Slash Appetite Gibson Les Paul signature model did come with the Slash logo on the headstock and a blank truss rod cover, I assume that is the model this one is a replica of but those didn't come out until 2010 I believe. It was a farily desirable which is likely why replicas exist. I think they did come with the COA but without the booklet that is sketchy.

I hate that these exist, nibs is the first thing I look for.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

FatStrat2 said:


> I think Milk has a point.
> 
> If this Slash dude took $100 of his previous profits (or had the chops to do it himself), a good setup would fool quite a few more people than it does now. My wager would go up from a nickel to $1.


I dunno - if I held it in my hands and listened to it, and I couldn't tell the difference?

Then I probably deserve to get taken.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> I dunno - if I held it in my hands and listened to it, and I couldn't tell the difference?
> 
> Then I probably deserve to get taken.


I'm of the mind that no one deserves to get taken. If they can build a guitar that could fool a guitar expert then what chance would us mere mortals have. Personally I'm not one for every minute detail or historical accuracy. If a guitar plays good and sounds great I might get taken. The last 3 guitars I bought were my R8 and standard 50 new from Long and McQuade and earlier in the year a custom shop 56 strat that I bought used from someone here on the forum and is a friend of another guy on this forum that I've known for a while. That's likely the safest way for most of us to buy guitars these days.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

2manyGuitars said:


> I spotted a couple signs but even a somewhat savvy Gibson buyer might be fooled by this. I’ve _never_ seen a Chibson with these...
> View attachment 443440
> 
> View attachment 443439


There was a couple things in the first batch of pictures that I thought "That doesn't look right." but the sheer quantity of material might be enough to coax someone.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I have not been much of a buyer these past few years, but 5 of the last 6 electrics I have were purchased on GC - sight unseen from all across the country. There is (or at least was) a high-level of trust and respect amongst our members. It was important to be a member of this community - and the thought of losing that was a pretty good incentive to deal fair. I know there was an exception or two but look what happened when we found out - shamed and blackballed.

There's a lot of newer members now. I hope they feel the same sense of community.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

guitarman2 said:


> I'm of the mind that no one deserves to get taken. If they can build a guitar that could fool a guitar expert then what chance would us mere mortals have. Personally I'm not one for every minute detail or historical accuracy. If a guitar plays good and sounds great I might get taken. The last 3 guitars I bought were my R8 and standard 50 new from Long and McQuade and earlier in the year a custom shop 56 strat that I bought used from someone here on the forum and is a friend of another guy on this forum that I've known for a while. That's likely the safest way for most of us to buy guitars these days.


If I'm looking at a used Gibson I'm going to ask @2manyGuitars really nicely to have a look at it with me.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Okay Player said:


> If I'm looking at a used Gibson I'm going to ask @2manyGuitars really nicely to have a look at it with me.


Very good plan


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Okay Player said:


> If I'm looking at a used Gibson I'm going to ask @2manyGuitars really nicely to have a look at it with me.


Yup! Totally fake!
Now, you go wait in the car while I talk to the seller… 😗


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

I've read many times here people justifying things like putting a Fender logo on a Warmoth neck because they're licensed or something. Or high end knock-offs with Gibson logos getting a pass because some cork sniffers like them.* I would support a complete ban of any fakes / reproductions / "Tributes" or whatever you call them on GC. It won't happen, but it should.*

It's often hard to spot a fake from a grainy picture on Kijiji - half the fakes that are pointed out here turn out to be legit. Definitely worth a little due diligence to ask around here before you buy.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

BlueRocker said:


> I've read many times here people justifying things like putting a Fender logo on a Warmoth neck because they're licensed or something. Or high end knock-offs with Gibson logos getting a pass because some cork sniffers like them.* I would support a complete ban of any fakes / reproductions / "Tributes" or whatever you call them on GC. It won't happen, but it should.*
> 
> It's often hard to spot a fake from a grainy picture on Kijiji - half the fakes that are pointed out here turn out to be legit. Definitely worth a little due diligence to ask around here before you buy.


Doesn't a good "parts-caster" pretty much go for the same money as a real one?


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> Doesn't a good "parts-caster" pretty much go for the same money as a real one?


Depends on what its replicating. A custom shop? No. Some boutique builders replica. Might cost more.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

@2manyGuitars good story. I followed with interest even as a guy who has no interest in owning a major brand.

My advice is... buy from a store; buy from the original owner who you know personally; or, as I did last year, have your favourite store research for you, then sell there on consignment. 

If you want an expensive guitar, don't try to save money.


----------



## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

Okay Player said:


> If I'm looking at a used Gibson I'm going to ask @2manyGuitars really nicely to have a look at it with me.


Another bit of advice, especially with people meeting outside etc now with Covid and it getting darker earlier in the day. If you’re not sure (buying from a trusted source) make your meeting/time in a well lit place or in the day, so you can really look it over. Play it when possible, and invest in A Gibson tool if you don’t have one, so you can take screws off and test the truss rod nut for movement.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

.


allthumbs56 said:


> Doesn't a good "parts-caster" pretty much go for the same money as a real one?


Couldn't tell you, they're not my thing.


----------



## seadonkey (Feb 9, 2008)

2manyGuitars said:


> I spotted a couple signs but even a somewhat savvy Gibson buyer might be fooled by this. I’ve _never_ seen a Chibson with these...
> View attachment 443440
> 
> 
> View attachment 443439


No nibs and a pretty ugly top for a AFD but yeah, the swag or case candy makes it more convincing and could be tricky to catch.


----------



## seadonkey (Feb 9, 2008)

Double post…


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Permanent Waves said:


> I think it is a good idea in threads like these for people to share information on how they spot the fakes (even if it gets repetitive) to help educate newer users. I found the case information very useful because I am not knowledgeable enough to spot a fake case. The truss rod cover fitting detail was also very interesting. This one did not have the slotted bridge posts that so many fakes have (like the blue one had), but here are the details I picked up on with my relatively uneducated eyes:
> 
> 
> No nibs at the ends of the frets is usually the dead giveaway. That is one detail that is expensive for counterfeiters to invest the time to do.
> ...


Unless the Fakers read this and know what they’re now missing….

Kidding, the good outweighs the bad for the average buyer.

Great tips to add to the ones shared.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> I dunno - if I held it in my hands and listened to it, and I couldn't tell the difference?
> 
> Then I probably deserve to get taken.



I'm sure you really don't think that way.

Nobody deserves to be ripped off or otherwise be the victim of crime even if they're naïve, gullible, careless or just plain stupid.

I'm not suggesting we all abandon personal responsibility, but no, you don't deserve to be ripped off because you failed to spot a fake.


----------



## Squawk (Jun 21, 2018)

That is sickening. I wonder if it makes more sense to report them to the RCMP, or here:






Merchandise







www.antifraudcentre-centreantifraude.ca










Episode 6: How to deal with pirate (fake) copies in the marketplace - Canadian Intellectual Property Office


Lawyer Lorne Lipkus talks about the multi-faceted problems with pirate copies and what you can do to stop them.




www.ic.gc.ca


----------



## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

seadonkey said:


> No nibs and a pretty ugly top for a AFD but yeah, the swag or case candy makes it more convincing and could be tricky to catch.


I don’t think the manufacturer got the documents, I think a previous owner did.

BTW here is a good reference on the Slash models:





__





Slash Signature Les Paul | Gibson guitars


Slash Paradise - This is a page about Gibson Slash Signature Les Paul guitars: Custom Shop, Snakepit, Standard, U.S.A., Goldtop, VOS and Appetite.




www.slashparadise.com


----------



## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

BlueRocker said:


> I've read many times here people justifying things like putting a Fender logo on a Warmoth neck because they're licensed or something. Or high end knock-offs with Gibson logos getting a pass because some cork sniffers like them.* I would support a complete ban of any fakes / reproductions / "Tributes" or whatever you call them on GC. It won't happen, but it should.*
> 
> It's often hard to spot a fake from a grainy picture on Kijiji - half the fakes that are pointed out here turn out to be legit. Definitely worth a little due diligence to ask around here before you buy.


Fender sells replacement necks too.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

QUESTION: What is "slash" and how does a guitar like that deliver something that another guitar can't? It looks like an LP with two HB's.


----------



## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Permanent Waves said:


> This thread raises an interesting point on the integrity of buyers and sellers. I saw a Phillip McKnight video a while back where he is stamping a fake Duvell and rubbing out the logo, which is something people should do in this case. You cannot stop the spread of increasingly-authentic fakes but you can educate people (in threads such as these) and help "stamp out" the proliferation through unscrupulous sellers. The "Staircase Seller" had another dubious blue LP and I think anyone willing to lay down $2900 on a guitar needs to do some due diligence to educate themselves, but at the same time calling out a seller knowingly selling a fake priced as the real thing is a good idea.
> 
> This reminds me of something that happened to me. In the late 80's I bought a fake Rick 4001 for about $200. It was a reasonably authentic neck-through but I knew it was fake because the nameplate said Joo-Dee, the inlay material was wrong and it had only one truss rod - all pretty easy tell tales. I sold it a year later for about what I paid for it to help pay for my first car. Many years later I walk into Retrotown and there was a Ric there with a real nameplate but clearly advertised as a fake on display for educational purposes. I was told the buyer had been fooled, and if that body was not my old Joo-Dee, it must have been its twin because it looked exactly the same.


Indeed....which brings up the point regarding due diligence. Like Scott pointed out, there are tells even with this example. I could spot at least 3 or 4 right off the bat. That said, the copies are getting better and better every year but they'll never be able to knock them off exactly due to costs. That's where buyer discretion will be of paramount importance.


----------



## OttawaGuitarGuyGSA (Jan 13, 2020)

Yes I read the complete story and thread ..

holly crap ..

happy there are still honest people to open our eyes on this sort of thing.

Thanks @2manyGuitars 🤘


----------



## JRtele (Jul 18, 2021)

@2manyGuitars


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

JRtele said:


> @2manyGuitars
> 
> View attachment 443529


Who the hell is gonna trust a guy selling a bunch of Gibsons wearing Fender shirt anyhow??


----------



## Permanent Waves (Jun 2, 2020)

SWLABR said:


> Unless the Fakers read this and know what they’re now missing….
> 
> Kidding, the good outweighs the bad for the average buyer.
> 
> Great tips to add to the ones shared.


I was re-watching Trogly's video on how he got scammed $15100 on a fake Slash Snakepit guitar. The lengths the builder went to fake it were pretty extensive, though on a 5-digit price tag, I can see why they would put such effort in what ends up being an elaborate con job.
Bottom line, if it's worth faking, someone will do it, and someone else will be fooled. I think that's the reason we see so many fake Slash guitars out there - it's worth doing on a more desirable Signature model because more people will be interested, and possibly blinded by the wow factor. 
In the end, counterfeiters are done in by greed and their victims by lack of knowledge. There's just no way you can replicate every aspect of a high-end instrument without investing the time and materials. I think that's why I don't see a lot of believable fake high-end PRS out there, that kind of material and workmanship is hard to replicate.


----------



## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

My best gear is a fake Kalamazoo, a fake 1957 hardtail St.Caster and a fake 5E3 tweed deluxe


----------



## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Permanent Waves said:


> I was re-watching Trogly's video on how he got scammed $15100 on a fake Slash Snakepit guitar. The lengths the builder went to fake it were pretty extensive, though on a 5-digit price tag, I can see why they would put such effort in what ends up being an elaborate con job.
> Bottom line, if it's worth faking, someone will do it, and someone else will be fooled. I think that's the reason we see so many fake Slash guitars out there - it's worth doing on a more desirable Signature model because more people will be interested, and possibly blinded by the wow factor.
> In the end, counterfeiters are done in by greed and their victims by lack of knowledge. There's just no way you can replicate every aspect of a high-end instrument without investing the time and materials. I think that's why I don't see a lot of believable fake high-end PRS out there, that kind of material and workmanship is hard to replicate.


If you think there are a lot of Slash fakes....just imagine how many really good counterfeit '58-'60 LP standards, V's and Explorers have been made. Huge money creates master counterfeit builders.


----------



## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

JRtele said:


> @2manyGuitars
> 
> View attachment 443529


His Blue Standard is also fake.


----------



## maverick08 (Sep 30, 2014)

Great story and very eye opening.

I think "replica" is the wrong word choice for these instruments, putting on a Gibson logo makes them fakes and counterfeits, plain and simple. There are plenty of independent builders making "Les Paul" guitars with their own logos on the headstock that I would classify as replicas.


----------



## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Permanent Waves said:


> I was re-watching Trogly's video on how he got scammed $15100 on a fake Slash Snakepit guitar. The lengths the builder went to fake it were pretty extensive, though on a 5-digit price tag, I can see why they would put such effort in what ends up being an elaborate con job.


I don't remember which of his I was watching, I think he's done a few of them on that subject, but I remember him giving the rundown and thinking "You ignored several red flags and still dropped $15k". No one ever deserves to be ripped off, but with some of these stories "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes." comes to mind.


----------



## bluesguitar1972 (Jul 16, 2011)

great leg work man - this crap really ticks me off. Knowingly screwing over someone like that means you're a complete piece of shit. Some people need a slight personality correction VIA a baseball bat to the noggin.


----------



## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Permanent Waves said:


> I was re-watching Trogly's video on how he got scammed $15100 on a fake Slash Snakepit guitar. The lengths the builder went to fake it were pretty extensive, though on a 5-digit price tag, I can see why they would put such effort in what ends up being an elaborate con job.
> Bottom line, if it's worth faking, someone will do it, and someone else will be fooled. I think that's the reason we see so many fake Slash guitars out there - it's worth doing on a more desirable Signature model because more people will be interested, and possibly blinded by the wow factor.
> In the end, counterfeiters are done in by greed and their victims by lack of knowledge. There's just no way you can replicate every aspect of a high-end instrument without investing the time and materials. I think that's why I don't see a lot of believable fake high-end PRS out there, that kind of material and workmanship is hard to replicate.


1) Price is too good
2) Jurisdiction of seller is not typical

Hard pass


----------



## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

KapnKrunch said:


> QUESTION: What is "slash" and how does a guitar like that deliver something that another guitar can't? It looks like an LP with two HB's.


It’s a signature model of the guy that probably is one of the more iconic players of the 80’s/90’s and who probably saved the Gibson brand by playing a fake lol.

The Slash models tend to have nicer tops and exclusive finishes, the pickups are custom buckers, the neck is a 50’s vintage. They are really nice guitars, but you’re right, don’t deliver anything that another can’t. They are good value for what you get if you can snag them used.


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

All this is very nice for the initiated, to whom fakes aren't aimed at. Joe Average who saved his money for his dream guitar is the one that is targeted. He's not equipped to detect anything. His purchase is emotional and he just wants to come home with his dream axe. What does he know about COA, case fur and tolex degree of shine, truss rod, nibs ?


----------



## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

BGood said:


> All this is very nice for the initiated, to whom fakes aren't aimed at. Joe Average who saved his money for his dream guitar is the one that is targeted. He's not equipped to detect anything. His purchase is emotional and he just wants to come home with his dream axe. What does he know about COA, case fur and tolex degree of shine, truss rod, nibs ?


That’s where the value of a discussion like this comes into play. Hopefully someone looking for info on spotting a fake , stumbles onto this and gets saved some heartache.

Its also been a valuable thread for me, I’ve learned some things too.


----------



## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Parabola said:


> That’s where the value of a discussion like this comes into play. Hopefully someone looking for info on spotting a fake , stumbles onto this and gets saved some heartache.
> 
> Its also been a valuable thread for me, I’ve learned some things too.


Well a good start is mentioning that...

Gibson Les Paul Slash Appetite for Destruction AFD Prototype, serial number 017180672 is a confirmed forgery, copy, replica, fake, counterfeit.

Hopefully, I got all the keywords in there so that anyone googling it in the future might find their way here.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Parabola said:


> That’s where the value of a discussion like this comes into play. Hopefully someone looking for info on spotting a fake , stumbles onto this and gets saved some heartache.
> 
> Its also been a valuable thread for me, I’ve learned some things too.


But that's the thing, only the initiated will be a member here. The faker's target is the buyer that will not even start to maybe think of checking if there is such a thing as a fake.

We're preaching to the choir.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

2manyGuitars said:


> His Blue Standard is also fake.


Ya think??


----------



## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

Derek_T said:


> I always thought it was illegal to sell or resell counterfeit.


Its a civil tort, not a criminal offense unless you can prove intent to defraud which it looks like the OP has documented well but even then I doubt the police would touch it. Remember when Seinfeld discovered his 356 was fake?








Seinfeld settles “fake” Porsche lawsuits, precise terms unclear


Three years after a pair of lawsuits involving Jerry Seinfeld and an allegedly inauthentic Porsche 356 emerged, the cases are being settled.




www.hagerty.com





This is pretty far from some old lady being scammed out of her savings over her landline from a call center in Kolkata. He presumably met the guy, looked it over in person and thought it was good.
It's hard to imagine someone with $3k to blow on a used guitar wouldn't have noticed the obvious inconsistencies especially at that price which is hardly a steal.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

What's a nib?


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

I found links to discussions on here by using google searches (accidentally) long before I was a member. It’s how I found the site!

Maybe it helps someone searching for info, lots of videos on YouTube too.


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

Doug Gifford said:


> What's a nib?











The Great Big Gibson Fret Nib Debate — Haze Guitars


Gibson has installed binding with small 'nibs' at each of the fret-ends for years. This doesn't really serve any functional purpose but is mainly aesthetic. Nothing wrong with that but, when it comes time for a refret, it poses a bit of a problem. Check it out…




hazeguitars.com


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

BGood said:


> But that's the thing, only the initiated will be a member here. The faker's target is the buyer that will not even start to maybe think of checking if there is such a thing as a fake.
> 
> We're preaching to the choir.


I'm happy to answer any questions regarding authenticity whether it's posted here or anywhere else....as many generous contributors here would as well. The last thing I'd want to see is any fine folks here get taken by some scammer.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Parabola said:


> It’s a signature model of the guy that probably is one of the more iconic players of the 80’s/90’s and who probably saved the Gibson brand by playing a fake lol.


Yep. Kris Derrig made that guitar, not Gibson. 😄


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## NashvilleDeluxe (Feb 7, 2018)

It's getting harder to spot telltale signs of fakes from photographs alone. I have a lot of clients contact me with prospective guitar photos to ask if it is legit/what's it worth, etc. I just politely decline. I won't even do an "appraisal" for a guitar on the bench for repair; it's a different type of expertise. Some of you on this site are ninjas with an encyclopedic knowledge of "correctness" and year-specific details. I just make instruments play, sound, and look better.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Doug Gifford said:


> What's a nib?


----------



## MetalTele79 (Jul 20, 2020)

I just remembered about this decal applied by Lil Demon guitar shop on a partscaster they assembled. It's Fenderish but there's also no risk of it getting passed on as a Fender in the future.


----------



## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Permanent Waves said:


> I was re-watching Trogly's video on how he got scammed $15100 on a fake Slash Snakepit guitar. The lengths the builder went to fake it were pretty extensive, though on a 5-digit price tag, I can see why they would put such effort in what ends up being an elaborate con job.
> Bottom line, if it's worth faking, someone will do it, and someone else will be fooled. I think that's the reason we see so many fake Slash guitars out there - it's worth doing on a more desirable Signature model because more people will be interested, and possibly blinded by the wow factor.
> In the end, counterfeiters are done in by greed and their victims by lack of knowledge. There's just no way you can replicate every aspect of a high-end instrument without investing the time and materials. I think that's why I don't see a lot of believable fake high-end PRS out there, that kind of material and workmanship is hard to replicate.


Ya, I’ve seen that episode. That faker went all out.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Parabola said:


> It’s a signature model of the guy that probably is one of the more iconic players of the 80’s/90’s and who probably saved the Gibson brand by playing a fake lol.
> 
> The Slash models tend to have nicer tops and exclusive finishes, the pickups are custom buckers, the neck is a 50’s vintage. They are really nice guitars, but you’re right, don’t deliver anything that another can’t. They are good value for what you get if you can snag them used.


Great answer. Thanks, Yeah, those little things can really make a difference. Sometimes.


----------



## Skynyrds Innyrds (5 mo ago)

Doug Gifford said:


> So, is this stuff punishable by law or just buyer beware?



He knows he bought a fake but is selling it as the real thing, so wouldn't that be fraud?


----------



## Skynyrds Innyrds (5 mo ago)

Milkman said:


> I really don't mind saying I told you so.
> 
> The very existence of these fakes creates a high probability that someone someday will rip somebody off passing them off as legit.
> 
> The second they apply the name Gibson or Fender to the headstock, they're setting up someone to get scammed.


Sometimes the companies apply the name themselves. If you buy a neck from Fender (either direct or through a retail store) it comes with both a decal and a serial number. That neck can then be slapped on any body you want.

And then there is Gibson which goes after counterfitters but made a signature model out of a fake. I don't care if a luthier made it, if he put 'Gibson' on the headstock it is a fake.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Skynyrds Innyrds said:


> He knows he bought a fake but is selling it as the real thing, so wouldn't that be fraud?


He purposely sought out a counterfeit to immediately turn around and try to pass off as the real thing.
Yes. Illegal.


----------



## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

2manyGuitars said:


> He purposely sought out a counterfeit to immediately turn around and try to pass off as the real thing.
> Yes. Illegal.


I think we missed an opportunity.

We should have offered to buy it. Then shown up and snapped the headstock.


----------



## Arek (Jan 24, 2009)

Same in Calgary?


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Dont we have a well renowned Ontario luthier with 5 figure guitars prices who puts the Gibson logo on replica builds? There was also bob burst doing it too before he took money and ran - buyers were happy with his product.


----------



## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Budda said:


> Dont we have a well renowned Ontario luthier with 5 figure guitars prices who puts the Gibson logo on replica builds? There was also bob burst doing it too before he took money and ran - buyers were happy with his product.


Take it outside, bud!
Don’t muddy up my thread with your nonsense. 😆


----------



## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

MetalTele79 said:


> I just remembered about this decal applied by Lil Demon guitar shop on a partscaster they assembled. It's Fenderish but there's also no risk of it getting passed on as a Fender in the future.


It's not like someone couldn't change it.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Just another reason for me to avoid buying with a name on a headstock and buy a guitar instead. It avoids all that nonsense. Also, anything over $1000.00 is mostly bling anyway.


----------



## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

Steadfastly said:


> Just another reason for me to avoid buying with a name on a headstock and buy a guitar instead. It avoids all that nonsense. Also, anything over $1000.00 is mostly bling anyway.


It’s not just high end stuff getting faked, so you might not be as immune as you think.

What we also didn’t discuss here, is the booming counterfeit market of fake parts and components...they are even counterfeiting strings.


----------



## Pat James (5 mo ago)

Permanent Waves said:


> I was re-watching Trogly's video on how he got scammed $15100 on a fake Slash Snakepit guitar. The lengths the builder went to fake it were pretty extensive, though on a 5-digit price tag, I can see why they would put such effort in what ends up being an elaborate con job.
> Bottom line, if it's worth faking, someone will do it, and someone else will be fooled. I think that's the reason we see so many fake Slash guitars out there - it's worth doing on a more desirable Signature model because more people will be interested, and possibly blinded by the wow factor.
> In the end, counterfeiters are done in by greed and their victims by lack of knowledge. There's just no way you can replicate every aspect of a high-end instrument without investing the time and materials. I think that's why I don't see a lot of believable fake high-end PRS out there, that kind of material and workmanship is hard to replicate.


I remember when he posted that video (I think he did it around Halloween last year) and it's got to be, if not, his best yet. I like the way he told it as a story, and for any gear nut like ourselves, the tension he built up to was great. Lot's of information on the lengths that some of these scammers will go to trick someone into buying something that isn't legit.


----------



## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Pat James said:


> I remember when he posted that video (I think he did it around Halloween last year) and it's got to be, if not, his best yet. I like the way he told it as a story, and for any gear nut like ourselves, the tension he built up to was great. Lot's of information on the lengths that some of these scammers will go to trick someone into buying something that isn't legit.


It's weird that a bad story would have started with sending someone in Mexico $15k over the internet at 2 in the morning, right?


----------



## Pat James (5 mo ago)

Okay Player said:


> It's weird that a bad story would have started with sending someone in Mexico $15k over the internet at 2 in the morning, right?


I'm not going to say it was a smart decision...but it made for a great story imo.


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

If I'm spending $15K on a guitar from Mexico, I'm getting on a plane.


----------



## Pat James (5 mo ago)

BlueRocker said:


> If I'm spending $15K on a guitar from Mexico, I'm getting on a plane.


Boarding on a plan with $15K in cash to Mexico. 

I see no problem with this.


----------



## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Pat James said:


> Boarding on a plan with $15K in cash to Mexico.


You weren’t around in the 80’s and 90’s I guess.


----------



## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

1991 Gibson Les Paul Studio For Sale!! | Guitars | Oshawa / Durham Region | Kijiji


Looking to sell my 1991 Gibson Les Paul Studio with upgrades for $1400, below are all the upgrades: Tone emporium push/pull volume pot, Bigsby B7 bridge piece, Seymour Duncan JB bridge 59 neck set Has some cosmetic damage as its over 30 years old but no real impairment to the instrument Please...




www.kijiji.ca


----------



## Pat James (5 mo ago)

Sneaky said:


> You weren’t around in the 80’s and 90’s I guess.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Parabola said:


> It’s not just high end stuff getting faked, so you might not be as immune as you think.
> 
> What we also didn’t discuss here, is* the booming counterfeit market of fake parts and components...they are even counterfeiting strings.*


I guess if there is money to be made, people will make and sell fakes of anything. Unfortunately, that is the world we live in today.


----------



## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

He has re posted 4 of the guitars on FB market place in the last couple days. I'm no Gibson expert but they seem legit, 2 of them have the nibs the 2015 has the crappy robotune system and the studio I dont know enough about to comment. Even if his prices were decent because of this thread I could never buy anything off of him.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Skynyrds Innyrds said:


> Sometimes the companies apply the name themselves. If you buy a neck from Fender (either direct or through a retail store) it comes with both a decal and a serial number. That neck can then be slapped on any body you want.
> 
> And then there is Gibson which goes after counterfitters but made a signature model out of a fake. I don't care if a luthier made it, if he put 'Gibson' on the headstock it is a fake.



Yes, but Fender has the right to license any company they deem fit to use their logo. You and I don't have that right. If I trace one of those serial numbers legally applied to an aftermarket neck, I'm sure it will trace back to the neck and not a fake Fender guitar.


----------



## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

That Standard looks like shit, it has the cheaper allen key bridge and Epiphoney top. Not a $3000+ guitar.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Thunderboy1975 said:


> That Standard looks like shit, it has the cheaper allen key bridge and Epiphoney top. Not a $3000+ guitar.


Unfortunatly some genuine Gibsons did use allen key bridge posts, and some even had no nibs (around 2014ish?). I'm no expert so I can't say which models or when they were made, hopefully the real Gibson experts will chime in.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

jfk911 said:


> He has re posted 4 of the guitars on FB market place in the last couple days. I'm no Gibson expert but they seem legit, 2 of them have the nibs the 2015 has the crappy robotune system and the studio I dont know enough about to comment. Even if his prices were decent because of this thread I could never buy anything off of him.
> View attachment 444036


Oh, he knows he’s on the radar now so he’s only posting legit stuff. He did have one other fake in his original batch. It was a different blue Standard for $2300.


----------



## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

tomee2 said:


> Unfortunatly some genuine Gibsons did use allen key bridge posts, and some even had no nibs (around 2014ish?). I'm no expert so I can't say which models or when they were made, hopefully the real Gibson experts will chime in.


I have 2 with that bridge, a Special and a SG. Its a bridge for lower teir Gibsons is what i meant. Not usually found on LP Standards.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Thunderboy1975 said:


> I have 2 with that bridge, a Special and a SG. Its a bridge for lower teir Gibsons is what i meant. Not usually found on LP Standards.


Yes OK, my 2014 "LPJ" model (not a Junior but like a Studio..) has those posts.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Thunderboy1975 said:


> I have 2 with that bridge, a Special and a SG. Its a bridge for lower teir Gibsons is what i meant. Not usually found on LP Standards.





tomee2 said:


> Yes OK, my 2014 "LPJ" model (not a Junior but like a Studio..) has those posts.


Pretty sure my 2017 Pelham Blue SG Standard T has that bridge.


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## Pat James (5 mo ago)

tomee2 said:


> Yes OK, my 2014 "LPJ" model (not a Junior but like a Studio..) has those posts.


I have the same guitar. The zebra bobbins are apparently designed after a '61 pickup.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Pat James said:


> I have the same guitar. The zebra bobbins are apparently designed after a '61 pickup.


Yup! Gibson considered the "61 Zebra" set part of Burstbucker range. Came on LPJ, LPM, SGJ, SGM and Les Paul Peace in 2014. The screw coil has slightly more windings, and they measure under 8k or so and have Alnico 5 magnets. Pretty decent pickup to put on what was the lowest model US made Gibson that year.


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## Pat James (5 mo ago)

tomee2 said:


> Yup! Gibson considered the "61 Zebra" set part of Burstbucker range. Came on LPJ, LPM, SGJ, SGM and Les Paul Peace in 2014. The screw coil has slightly more windings, and they measure under 8k or so and have Alnico 5 magnets. Pretty decent pickup to put on what was the lowest model US made Gibson that year.


True...good to know. I find that they have a great classic sound, and gotta love those peace models ☮


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

I don't know why but I can almost accept the existence of this thing since Gibson gave up making them.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

This is awesome


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

BlueRocker said:


> This is awesome


That headstock itself screams fake--it's not quite right.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

When people try to justify counterfeits by saying Gibson/Fender/whoever charges too much--well there are copies & similar guitars that don't say Gibson or Fender or whoever on the headstock--so you can get a similar guitar for less without having a counterfeit.
As for being expensive--yeah lot of guitars are overpriced--so don't buy them.
When I got my Gibson it was used, from a reputable retailer, modded & on sale--so I could afford it.
Otherwise I may not have one.

Nothing against those who either can afford or who saved up & bought a Gibson--that's cool too.
But only if it really is a Gibson & not a counterfeit.
But if you bought a guitar that is similar with a different name on it?
That's cool too.


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## Ou81984 (Feb 23, 2021)

Wow, thanks for this info. I've never been into owning a fake of anything and hope I never get scammed. That dude is scum


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## carboncopy (4 mo ago)

Its really a shame that people feel the need to try and pass fakes as the real thing. I would never purchase anything from someone caught trying to move fakes as real, even if they were selling a legit guitar. Who knows what corners they would cut or what things they would do to a real one to just make a few bucks.


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