# native tonewoods



## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

Does anyone know of a website which lists some native tonewoods and their tonal properties?


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## Hypno Toad (Aug 1, 2009)

Not sure what you mean by "native" but here's a basic list of tonewoods.

http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/all-about-tonewoods/Jan-08/33183


All the lists I found are somewhat limited, with the same basic philosophy that "if it isn't alder, ash, or mohogany it SUCKS" There's a lot of different tonewoods that nobody really mentions, if you google around you can find some nice alternatives that people have tried on various websites and forums.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Here's a link I found interesting.

http://www.jemsite.com/jem/wood.htm


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## Hypno Toad (Aug 1, 2009)

Lincoln said:


> Here's a link I found interesting.
> 
> http://www.jemsite.com/jem/wood.htm


Was trying to find that link again, I like the combos it has.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

xuthal said:


> Does anyone know of a website which lists some native tonewoods and their tonal properties?


You mean trees that grow IN Canada? So, how woods like Cherry or Maple sound instead of Cocobola or Bubinga?


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

In Sask? :sport-smiley-002:


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## neogardguitar (Dec 6, 2007)

Try this one. Not just domestic but tonewoods in general. But might have what you're looking for.

http://guitarbench.com/index.php/category/tonewood-database/


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

http://www.cvtonewood.com/

http://www.tonewood.ca/

http://www.timbretone.com/

http://www.coneguitar.com/tonewood.html

Also, many builder's website have descriptions of various woods.

Peace, Mooh.


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

Thanks for the info guys,by native tonewoods i meant tonewood that's indigenous to Canada in general.Once i get up the nerve to start a guitar i was thinking of making one with all Canadian woods,just to hear how it sounds.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Acoustic? Norman has been making Cherry backed with Cedar tops for years. They sound good.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

xuthal said:


> Thanks for the info guys,by native tonewoods i meant tonewood that's indigenous to Canada in general.Once i get up the nerve to start a guitar i was thinking of making one with all Canadian woods,just to hear how it sounds.



You know, here in Canada we have more trees than you can shake a stick at. Only a few trees the Europeans used back home got used to make instruments here. I agree, Maple, Ceder, Spruce, Cherry, Walnut are all great woods.

What about Chestnut?

What about Sumac?

What about Sassafras?

If you are into making something more "Canadian" than Maple Syrup and wanting to be a Lumber Jack :_) why not consider trying some of the other species of tree and see what they have to offer?

OH and as thought, there is a tree the settlers used. Well, the black smiths used them. They cut it down, let it dry, then used it as an anvil it was so hard. Called it Anvil Wood. Today it is known as Sycamore, and it is quite common at least here in Ontario. Should be a good hardwood to use.


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## Hypno Toad (Aug 1, 2009)

keeperofthegood said:


> OH and as thought, there is a tree the settlers used. Well, the black smiths used them. They cut it down, let it dry, then used it as an anvil it was so hard. Called it Anvil Wood. Today it is known as Sycamore, and it is quite common at least here in Ontario. Should be a good hardwood to use.


I can see something like that being kinda harsh for sound.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Hypno Toad said:


> I can see something like that being kinda harsh for sound.


Well, depends. I was actually thinking of the neck. I have no idea how it would resonate as a thin slice though. I think Maple is used more for sides and braces isn't it? It should find a use where Maple is used. Then again, I wonder what the wood weight is and if it would be too heavy hmm...

The bigger idea is just trying the untried or less tried approaches. Sassafras is like oak, only it is very light-weight. I gave a 12 foot board to my brother for a gift once, it aged like sun bleached wood, it was to make a 'pirate' chest out of. Sumac just looks pithy (I've not used it only looked at it), no idea how it could be used, maybe ok for braces or used where pear is used in binding. I do not know; but I suggest because I don't think anyone knows. I just like the 'thinking outside the box' approach.

One thing I have noticed in instrument building, the first step is buying or building a lot of the tools. Steamer, forms, braces, templates, clamps, etc. all this only needs to be done essentially once.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

keeperofthegood said:


> OH and as thought, there is a tree the settlers used. Well, the black smiths used them. They cut it down, let it dry, then used it as an anvil it was so hard. Called it Anvil Wood. Today it is known as Sycamore, and it is quite common at least here in Ontario. Should be a good hardwood to use.


Are you confusing that with Ironwood... or Hophornbeam as it is also known? A favourite of local axe handle makers. 

The big problem with some of the woods listed in previous posts ( Cherry, Walnut, Chestnut etc) is that yes the grown in Canada but only in the southern extremes and are not really commercially harvested. All the Cherry that I purchase comes from Pennsylvania.Yes it does grow around here but it tends to rot in the centre when trees get above 12". 

I am on the northern edge of mixed hardwood forests. You get much further north of me ( 1/2 hr) and the woods turn into Birch, Beech and Poplar. 

I managed to get some Walnut that I turned into a couple Tele's from a friend that cleared a lot near Oshawa. Of course the trees were much bigger than the two in my yard. I have lived here since 82'. They have increased their girth from 4 in to about 8" or 9" in that time. I am sure that growth rings would be tiny compared to a walnut tree growing in say southern NY. 

What type guitar are you thinking of building? Acoustic of Electric?


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

Straight acoustic,That's going to be quite a while from now though.I'm very interested in the tones i can achieve with canadian woods,poplar grows around here and theirs some nice birch that can be harvested.Anyone know what jack pine can sound like as a top wood?I've always wondered since it looks allot like spruce when split for firewood.I suppose poplar can be used for a guitar top since it's a softwood.Most likely i will choose sitka for the top.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

I wouldn't use Jack pine. Too knotty and stringy. Hard to get a big enough piece. I have a couple chunks of Eastern White Cedar that are destined for guitars....want some? They are not dry but you could work on that part.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

kqoct

No, this tree:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platanus_occidentalis

The anvil story was in a text I used to own on Ontario Trees when I still lived with my parents. I collected the leaves of the trees in the book, and sycamore was easy, it grew in the front yard. Well, all across both Niagara Falls, and St Catherines there is sycamore planted. On Russel Ave, the trees are quite massive, and yet still juveniles 

Hmm, not a lot of photos of it online >_>











However,  you know the region there better. It doesn't matter, the idea is the same. Working with "whats in your own back yard" I think is a great way to both promote your own back yard as well as to learn


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## neogardguitar (Dec 6, 2007)

I've used Cherry - sounds great.

I have a set of domestic Sycamore but have not used it yet.

I've heard of people using birch for mandolins, so might work ok for a guitar.

Here's another link describing alternative tonewoods:

http://www.guitarnation.com/articles/calkin.htm

Neil


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

neogardguitar said:


> I've used Cherry - sounds great.
> 
> I have a set of domestic Sycamore but have not used it yet.
> 
> ...


Interesting article. Lot's of emphasis on " selling " . I have seen quite a few Tele's on TDPRI that were made from Cherry but you never really hear back on how good they are. Which I find strange. You always hear the raving when a new Pine/ash etc are completed. 

Keeper I didn't know that Sycamore actually grew in Ontario. 

I forgot about Ironwood being used for plane soles it might be good for fretboards

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrya


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Ironwood may be a bit hard on your cutting/planing/router blades. Man, that stuff is tough! But then again, working with ash is a bit hard on them too, as it has a tendency to bring sand up into the tree. I remember cutting ash with my dad in the evening, and you could see the flashes, like sparks, coming off the chainsaw blade.
The top and bottom of the guitar I am doing came from an ash that was growing in my yard. That is starting from scratch!


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

shoretyus said:


> Interesting article. Lot's of emphasis on " selling " . I have seen quite a few Tele's on TDPRI that were made from Cherry but you never really hear back on how good they are. Which I find strange. You always hear the raving when a new Pine/ash etc are completed.
> 
> Keeper I didn't know that Sycamore actually grew in Ontario.
> 
> ...


 Yes, it's a huge tree in some cities here. Here in Burlington its a lot of Elm, Ash, and Russian Olive trees. Russian olive. Soft wood I think, my late grandfather once had one. Cut the tree down, it had a really nice fade of white outer rings going to black heartwood transitioning through browns.

Well, this was interesting:



> *[SIZE=+1]Sycamore. [/SIZE]*[SIZE=+1]A sycamore 34" across the butt fell over outside my New Jersey shop. I had it milled up, and for a while I had sycamore lumber up the wazoo, with enough quartered stock for a boatload of instruments. Quartered sycamore displays a prominent lace pattern of pink on cream, or, most commonly, light brown on cream. The wood is soft enough that a tree can be ripped up for resawing with a chain saw, a task that would be unbearable with oak or walnut. The wood has no pores, but somehow encourages a rough finish, more like spruce than a hardwood. It feels and handles like the softest varieties of mahogany and makes into a very light guitar. Don't confuse American sycamore with English sycamore, which is a true maple. Quartered American sycamore is cherished as a cabinetwood in Europe, where it is called plane lacewood, but it gets no respect for anything in America. Sycamore splits readily, and the infested wood makes wild looking instruments. If this soft and floppy American cardboard makes into a fine guitar--and it does--any wood will.[/SIZE]



 It is not the same as the European. Maybe that book I had as a kid was completely wrong. Gives me the urge to look it up. 

Hmm. Another tree we have lots of is Apple. I know that wood is much the same as Pear (used it in the smoker), I wonder how it would be as well. Just not easy to get BIG Apple trees.

My father had a birch desk too. The grain was same as pear, yellow-brown natural coloured wood that had a bit of an iridescence to it with whatever was the finish used on wood back in the 1950's. Also very smooth to drill into  boy was he mad at me! I don't know about top wood, but it should make good necks, binding, and any supports.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

keeperofthegood said:


> My father had a birch desk too. The grain was same as pear, yellow-brown natural coloured wood that had a bit of an iridescence to it with whatever was the finish used on wood back in the 1950's. Also very smooth to drill into  boy was he mad at me! I don't know about top wood, but it should make good necks, binding, and any supports.


My memory of Birch is tainted. The guy I was working for had a lift of it kiln dried. When we picked it up and cut the bands off the lift all the boards just danced.... and warped. Simple amazing. I can't stop thinking about that when I hear about somebody putting it into a guitar.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

shoretyus said:


> My memory of Birch is tainted. The guy I was working for had a lift of it kiln dried. When we picked it up and cut the bands off the lift all the boards just danced.... and warped. Simple amazing. I can't stop thinking about that when I hear about somebody putting it into a guitar.



kqoct that would put just about anyone off their cheerios!


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## WarrenG (Feb 3, 2006)

xuthal said:


> Straight acoustic,That's going to be quite a while from now though.I'm very interested in the tones i can achieve with canadian woods,poplar grows around here and theirs some nice birch that can be harvested.Anyone know what jack pine can sound like as a top wood?I've always wondered since it looks allot like spruce when split for firewood.I suppose poplar can be used for a guitar top since it's a softwood.Most likely i will choose sitka for the top.


OK, if I was building an "all-Canadian" guitar I would go with an Engelmann Spruce or Western Red Cedar top with Black Walnut back, sides, and neck. Sitka spruce for all bracing. 

I think pine is too soft.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

WarrenG said:


> OK, if I was building an "all-Canadian" guitar I would go with an Engelmann Spruce or Western Red Cedar top with Black Walnut back, sides, and neck. Sitka spruce for all bracing.
> 
> I think pine is too soft.


maple binding?


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## WarrenG (Feb 3, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> maple binding?


And a spalted maple rosette.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

WarrenG said:


> And a spalted maple rosette.


hmm Pink Granite fretmarkers.. maybe a Wheat shief headstock inlay. 

Beaver pelt case lining... 

nice playing Warren...


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

I saw this and thought of this thread. 

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/yrk/msg/1442133612.html


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## lacan (Nov 23, 2009)

Made a flamenco guitar several years ago using almost entirely Canadian wood except for fretboard&bridge.

Top made of tight grain quartered Eastern White Pine braced with Eastern White Spruce & Yellow Cedar for back&sides.

After some 20 or so years the guitar still sounds deep & has a rich flamenco sound.

But maybe I was just lucky?

My $0.02


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