# First Tube Amp - What to start with?



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm looking to delve into the realm of tube amplification but I'm not sure where to begin. 
You can only read so many reviews and specs until it all starts sounding the same.

I'm looking to keep it well under $1000 and I don't gig at all or see myself doing that in the next few years. I do jam occasionally with a drummer and another guitarist though. 
I play mostly hard rock, metal and some blues and would like some help with what direction I should take.

Here are a few used options I've been looking at but I am completely open to suggestions.

Vox AC15C1 - $550

Mesa Lone Star Special - $900

Mesa 5:50 - $650

Line 6 Spider Valve 112 - $450


----------



## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

Lone star special. Great clean sound, cool Mesa OD, great reverb, does just about anything. If you were only getting one that would be my choice. I also really like the AC 15 but will need a fair bit of pedal input for hard rock or metal.


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm okay with using pedals as I currently have the Boss MT-2, MX-R Super BadAss and a Wah for the metal, hard rock sound.

I should also mention that I'm currently using a Marshall Valvestate VS-100.


----------



## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

zdogma said:


> Lone star special.


Probably my favorite lead channel from any amp!


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

Would the 30amp be sufficient when I would jam?


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

1. Sell that MT-2 as fast as humanly possible, unless you play black metal. Its the only thing they are good for.

2. Do you have any volume restrictions?

3. Do you want distortion from your amp or a pedal? Both are fine, but most of the time a 112 combo can only do metal on recordings, not live. So if you arent playing metal live, you dont have to worry about it.

There's a lot of selection. I would suggest a used fender EVH 5150III 50W ($750) and a decent used 212 closedback cab, since you primarily play heavier stuff.


----------



## urko99 (Mar 30, 2009)

Looks like those Mesa's are right up your alley. You may also consider the Huges and Kettner 15 watt head or the Mesa TA-15 head. They have switchable power options that may suit your at home playing a little better. I'd stay away from Arachnophobia Spiders. Yikes! JMHO.


----------



## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

I think the Mesa 5:50 would be a good choice. Maybe kind of loud but excellent tones. You could try to find a 5:25 - one of my favourites that covers all the tones you mentioned.


----------



## Petey D (Sep 8, 2011)

Of the amps you listed, I'd go wit the Lone Star Special. Blackstar amps are worth looking into for a heavy player too imo.

Vox makes a terrific amp, but won't give you the sound you're looking for, clean or driven without pedals, and Line 6 has a bad rep for reliability.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

18Rocks said:


> Would the 30amp be sufficient when I would jam?


LSS. I think it has the best clean channel going.

I gig an LSS regularly. It's plenty loud enough for my application (classic rock, hard rock, blues). I generally only use 15W for channel 2, as I want some natural power amp crunch. If I ever hit a situation (outdoors?) that it wasn't, I know we'll have a big PA and I can mic it. Never had a problem with stage volume. Perhaps if in a metal band with 100W half stacks on the stage, you might be in trouble. The 5:50 might be a better choice in that case. Play 'em both if you can and see which one you like. Don't expect to figure either of them out in an hour though - Mesa tone stacks are very very active (and interactive).


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

Budda said:


> 1. Sell that MT-2 as fast as humanly possible, unless you play black metal. Its the only thing they are good for.
> 
> 2. Do you have any volume restrictions?
> 
> ...


I'll keep that pedal for a bit, I just bought it to mess around more than anything. Not planning to keep it long term.

I don't have volume restrictions as I live in a house and have a big lot, so no real issues there. 

As for distortion, I'm open as it depends on what I want to play and I know one amp will rarely give it to you all. What I really want from the amp is a very nice clean sound. I'm not happy with the clean channel on my VS-100.

Do you think that Lonestar could provide that? Or would the 5:50 be better suited?


----------



## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

you have some cool amps listed, and then at the end, the second i read it i thought of this

[video=youtube_share;FClGhto1vIg]http://youtu.be/FClGhto1vIg[/video]


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

zdogma said:


> Lone star special. Great clean sound, cool Mesa OD, great reverb, does just about anything. If you were only getting one that would be my choice. I also really like the AC 15 but will need a fair bit of pedal input for hard rock or metal.





jbealsmusic said:


> Probably my favorite lead channel from any amp!


This being the case, I would go with the Lone Star. You can always add FX to get the other sounds but if it's not clean, it's pretty hard to go backwards.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

The lone star and TA30 have great cleans, as does the 5150 III (because its a fender, whereas the older models are peavey).

If you like to play modern metal and want a sublime clean, im sticking with my Fender suggestion. The LSS will sound great clean and get good drive sounds, but the evh is built for metal. It may be eddie's sig but metal bands worldwide made it a staple.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I agree. If metal is the priority, the 5150 would be a good option. But that might also open up the possibility of an old Dual Rec or Tremoverb as well. I see them for south of $1000 regularly. Well, I guess the DR would need a cab, so probably not less than $1000 for that.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> I agree. If metal is the priority, the 5150 would be a good option. But that might also open up the possibility of an old Dual Rec or Tremoverb as well. I see them for south of $1000 regularly. Well, I guess the DR would need a cab, so probably not less than $1000 for that.


Only the reborn models have a great clean channel, and that will be beyond his budget.


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

Hmm that's some food for thought. 
I will be playing metal, but it's not the only thing I play. There's definitely some rock and blues there too. Basically I'd like it to be versatile, although I know I have to pick a primary genre.


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

The problem with the 5150 III is that I'll need to get a cab as well as the head which is out of my price range for sure.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

18Rocks said:


> The problem with the 5150 III is that I'll need to get a cab as well as the head which is out of my price range for sure.


Nope. Buy used, make a wanted ad, and it should be doable. The EVH can do whatever you want, just need to et the gain right.


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

Budda said:


> Nope. Buy used, make a wanted ad, and it should be doable. The EVH can do whatever you want, just need to et the gain right.


Haven't thought about making a wanted ad. About the gain, do you mean it's touchy?


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

No, i mean its flexible. Also consider the DC line of mesa.


----------



## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Just be prepared fend off all the replies that have nothing to do with the type of amp your looking for! Lol



18Rocks said:


> Haven't thought about making a wanted ad. About the gain, do you mean it's touchy?


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

Well after doing some research and lots of youtube demos, I've decided to go ahead with the Mesa Boogie 5:50. 
I think I'm getting a great deal for $600 I stay well within my budget with room to potentially add a pedal for the metal stuff I want to play if the amp can't get there alone.
Any suggestions on some good metal pedals? Lol 

Thanks for all the insight.

Edit: forgot to mention I'll be picking it up on Monday!


----------



## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

5:50 is a fantastic amp and $650 was a steal, almost unbelievable at $600.


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

LexxM3 said:


> 5:50 is a fantastic amp and $650 was a steal, almost unbelievable at $600.


That's kind of what I thought. I know I'd make my money back if I didn't like it.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

18Rocks said:


> Well after doing some research and lots of youtube demos, I've decided to go ahead with the Mesa Boogie 5:50.
> I think I'm getting a great deal for $600 I stay well within my budget with room to potentially add a pedal for the metal stuff I want to play if the amp can't get there alone.
> Any suggestions on some good metal pedals? Lol
> 
> ...


Since you got a good deal on the amp why don't you get a multi-effects pedal like the Digitech RP series or similar ones by Bosch or Line 6. You will have all the effects you'll want and more, plus a looper.


----------



## itf? (May 27, 2009)

Have you considered an Egnater Tweaker? Beautiful amp that covers a whole lot of ground. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

No to the DigiTech stuff.

Check out AMT, Bogner, Mesa, wampler pedals. But a lot of metal is less gain than you think - you double+ track in studio to get a big sound, and the bass tone plays a huge role.


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

Budda said:


> No to the DigiTech stuff.
> 
> Check out AMT, Bogner, Mesa, wampler pedals. But a lot of metal is less gain than you think - you double+ track in studio to get a big sound, and the bass tone plays a huge role.


I'm not a fan of the digital boxes. I'd much prefer using an analog pedal. I'm actually considering the SLOstortion from Wampler. I had one for a little while and have been longing for it since. 
Just not sure if it'll work well with the 5:50. 
Should I just go with a tube screamer?
What do you mean by double track+?


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Double tracking, using two tracks for the guitar when recording to make it sound bigger.
Also done with vocals.

I think it was in Some Kind of Monster documentary where Hetfield talks about Bob Rock doing that precise thing.
I think he called it the "thickener".


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

So if I understand correctly you record the same thing twice and play it simultaneously to give it a thicker/heavier sound?
What do you do live to recreate that? Is that when you would use a delay?


----------



## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

18Rocks said:


> So if I understand correctly you record the same thing twice and play it simultaneously to give it a thicker/heavier sound?
> What do you do live to recreate that? Is that when you would use a delay?


Exactly. Triple and quadruple even. Vocals, bass guitar, sometimes even drums are double tracked. 

A really short delay would sort of mimic that live but I think ultimately it's one of those things you're not able to recreate without backing tracks.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It hasn't been mentioned so far, so I thought I'd throw it in for anyone who comes to this thread and is new to the world of glowing amps.

There is a distinction to be made between ampllifiers that incorporate tubes in the preamplifier section, and those that include them in the power-amp section. Most long-time users would likely tell you that the soul of a tube amp is to be found in its power stage. That's not to say that something like a Marshall Valvestate, or one of the Vox amps with a 12AX7 in the front end are bad amplifiers, but they are not tube from input jack to speaker. As such, should it be that there is anything you don't like about them, it should not be attributed to "tubes". Conversely, if there is anything you DO like about them, it is also not due to tubes.

The question-mark concerns those amplifiers, like the older Peavey Classics and some Music Man amps, as examples, where the power section is tube, and the preamplifier is solid-state.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

You need to take your rig somewhere and try out pedals - or buy a few and return the ones you dont like. No substitute for real life application.

Theres lots of great dirt pedals out there, the trick is findinf the right one(s).


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

Budda said:


> You need to take your rig somewhere and try out pedals - or buy a few and return the ones you dont like. No substitute for real life application.
> 
> Theres lots of great dirt pedals out there, the trick is findinf the right one(s).


I know, I simply don't like being that guy who returns the pedals. Eventhough I know it's necessary if you want to buy the right one.


----------



## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

18Rocks said:


> I know, I simply don't like being that guy who returns the pedals. Eventhough I know it's necessary if you want to buy the right one.


I've never had a problem returning items to L&M. In fact, I suspect I may have returned more items than I've ever purchased. Usually the conversation goes like this:

"Hi, I'd like to return this item."

"OK. Any problems with it?"

"No, I just don't like it."

"OK. Just enter your PIN on the machine..."


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Dont over think things


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

It's more a mental thing for me and I have done it a couple of times. I know I'll do it in the future as well.


----------



## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

Find a deal like I did








And sell stuff for the guy to pay it off its fun


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

18Rocks said:


> So if I understand correctly you record the same thing twice and play it simultaneously to give it a thicker/heavier sound?
> What do you do live to recreate that? Is that when you would use a delay?


You get more than one guitarist and potentially more than one amp. It works best with a good soundman. The overall live experience contributes to how "heavy" a live show is.


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

Well I just picked it up and have to say I'm quite pleased with it! 
Those 4 channels are just awesome! I see hour and hours of fun in my near future.

Anyone want a Marshall VS-100? I just might have one for sale lol.


----------



## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Congratulations on an EXCELLENT choice - the one amp I've owned that I wish I had back. It would easily serve as my one and only amp for any situation.


----------



## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

Congratulation. Fantastic deal on a fantastic and super versatile amp.

One thing you might want to spend some time on is to read up on and practice tone adjustment -- Mesa are fairly unique in their tone circuitry and are often better adjusted by a procedure different from any other amp. I am still learning this, but look up online posts, videos, and tutorials on this. I think the manual might even go through the formal suggested process.


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm completely blown away by this amp! Seriously, I can't wipe the smile off my face. :sFun_dancing:
I've nailed down "THE" heavy tone I was looking for while out a pedal. I've already copied the settings down so I don't lose them.
I don't know if it's the tubes over valves or even the new strings or what ever the case maybe, it simply sounds amazing and I think my amp search is done...

Lexx, I'll definitely take your advice on that, it has a ton of options.

Thanks for helping me out with amp. Couldn't be happier with the results.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Congrats! Tubes are valves, "valve" is British version .


----------



## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

Mesa Boogie makes a great amp. Good choice.


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

Budda said:


> Congrats! Tubes are valves, "valve" is British version .


Learn something new every day. Thanks


----------



## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Good choice. Awesome amp!


----------



## 67mike (Feb 20, 2014)

Believe it or not.......Hiwatt DR-504 50 watt Custom Head.


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

There always a Marshall Major 200w head.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

18Rocks said:


> Well I just picked it up and have to say I'm quite pleased with it!
> Those 4 channels are just awesome! I see hour and hours of fun in my near future.
> 
> Anyone want a Marshall VS-100? I just might have one for sale lol.


Yea, sell the Marshall. I don't think you'll miss it now.

Quick primer on Mesa controls: the gain and treble work together to control the amount and type of distortion. The treble control drives the rest of the tone stack, so a change in the treble affects the mid and bass settings. If you adjust the treble to get the distortion you want, get the mid and bass set to what you want, high end can be tweeked with the presence. And, as you've discovered, a change from 9:00 to 11:00 on a Mesa is like the whole range of 0-10 on a Fender or Marshall.


----------



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

High/Deaf said:


> Yea, sell the Marshall. I don't think you'll miss it now.
> 
> Quick primer on Mesa controls: the gain and treble work together to control the amount and type of distortion. The treble control drives the rest of the tone stack, so a change in the treble affects the mid and bass settings. If you adjust the treble to get the distortion you want, get the mid and bass set to what you want, high end can be tweeked with the presence. And, as you've discovered, a change from 9:00 to 11:00 on a Mesa is like the whole range of 0-10 on a Fender or Marshall.


I don't think I will either. I've put it up for sale on Kijiji and here. Hopefully someone will buy it soon. I've been able to get a very similar if not the same tone I got with my Marshall with it. It's made the Marshall pretty much obsolete.

I've noticed those controls are very touchy and change quite rapidly. I like it as it provides you with a much wider range. 
I've been setting them at 12 o'clock and been adjusting them from there. I did find a great bluesy tone on the blues channel but forgot to write the settings down.... 
So you would dial in the bass and mid then adjust the treble?


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

No, I'm just saying that however you set the mid and bass controls, you may have to be readjusted them IF you change the treble setting.

I think you always want to start with gain, but with Mesa, I find the treble control, when increased, can increase the gain as well (especially past 12:00). So I usually go back and forth a bit with those two. And then, when I'm happy, set the mid bass and presence. But if you readjust either the gain and/or treble, you may have to slightly readjust the mid and bass. Its a dance that some people can't stand, but I think the positive is that there's lots of tones in those amps.


----------

