# I am in Which Key?



## rush2112 (Oct 2, 2010)

I understand the basics but not sure how a key is determined.

I always assumed it was the first chord played but what about the opening notes leading up to the first chord?

Or maybe the first chord has nothing to do with it.

And what percentage of musicians can listen to a song and know what key it is in?


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Key is determined by the relationships of the various chords in a song or section of song (if the key changes). You need to understand a little theory to start to understand how key is determined. Particularly what role a given chord plays in a piece of music. Is it a tonic, contrasting or tension chord? What interval number in the corresponding major scale does it relate to? (Ever heard of a I, IV, V?) The first chord or the most prevalent chord is a good starting point, but it's not written in stone.

Here's a reference I use for finding interesting chords once I've determined a key for something I'm creating. It might be a little trickier to use it backwards to determine key.

http://www.guitar-chords.org.uk/chordskey.html

I fear that raising this question will only breed a thousand other questions as you start to delve into music theory. Don't let it overwhelm you though. The "oh I get it" moment when it all starts to make sense opens up a whole other world of music and possibilities. Best of luck.


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## Guest (Jun 4, 2015)

tnx for link.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Much of the time in popular music the first chord will be the key of the song, but not always--so the link above and similar resources are your friends.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Figuring out keys can be tricky, especially with the "modal" keys - which show up more often than many people realize.

Generally the _last_ chord is a better indicator of key, unless it doesn't "feel" like the last chord - in that case the chord that you _feel_ like you should play next is most likely the key.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Sadly, it's usually the last chord of the song that I figure out what key we _were_ in. And I claim the solo was _free-form jazz-inspired_.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

When all my buddies used to jam years ago I got tired of just watching and not participating. I thought about learning guitar but there were already 3 guitars, a bass, a keyboard and drums. An extra guitar would not have worked too well IMHO. So I decided to pick up a saxophone and try to learn. So I went to the piano and played the notes and figured out the notes on the sax. Now I have no idea what key the saxophone is played in (I think it was an alto so it may have been B flat), but since the piano is B flat everything I learned to play was in the key of B flat. So the first time I got the guts to play with them all the guitars had to change keys to B flat to sound good with what I was playing. They had no problem identifying what was wrong and how to change keys. But it sounded all wrong. I ended up selling the sax.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

bw66 said:


> Generally the _last_ chord is a better indicator of key, unless it doesn't "feel" like the last chord - in that case the chord that you _feel_ like you should play next is most likely the key.


True indeed--some songs sound great without ending on key--but sometimes they need that extra chord--& I tend to add it in my head.
It feels so unresolved otherwise.


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## Percy (Feb 18, 2013)

To learn more about ''key area'' you need to know the following.....

-definitive chords of the key
-order of sharps and flats
-Major/ minor/ dominant

Have a look at these and your key area problems will soon be gone........


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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

zontar said:


> True indeed--some songs sound great without ending on key--but sometimes they need that extra chord--& I tend to add it in my head.
> It feels so unresolved otherwise.


Yes, very confusing, I am somewhat intimidated by it all.

I still like the fact I can play the song and make it recognizable without knowing which key it is in.

I doubt the banjo player in "Deliverance" really cared, perhaps I should look at it the same way.


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## Steve_F (Feb 15, 2008)

"Let me hear you play it for a few seconds" has worked for me for YEARS. I am bad at theory but my ear has become decent enough that I can pick most things up after I hear it. Been faking music knowledge for well over a decade!


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

I was (am) under the impression that the key is the scale from which the chords have been formed.
For example a song using Am, Dm, F and G would be the key of C major, since the chord tones (1-3-5) have no sharps or flats, like the C major scale.
Is this not correct?


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Not necessarily. There might be more than one key that uses those chords. Also, it's possible that one of the chords might be a borrowed chord. You would need to know what role the chords played in the progression to say definitively. Offhand I would say it's unlikely the key is C considering there's not even a C chord in the progression. It might be in C's relative minor key though. Dm?


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

JHarasym said:


> I was (am) under the impression that the key is the scale from which the chords have been formed.
> For example a song using Am, Dm, F and G would be the key of C major, since the chord tones (1-3-5) have no sharps or flats, like the C major scale.
> Is this not correct?


My first guess for a tune with those chords would be A minor (which is the "relative minor" to the key of C major - no sharps or flats). It could also be G mixolydian - also no sharps or flats, but G would feel like the "home" chord. There are other possibilities, but these would be my two best bets.


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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

JHarasym said:


> I was (am) under the impression that the key is the scale from which the chords have been formed.
> For example a song using Am, Dm, F and G would be the key of C major, since the chord tones (1-3-5) have no sharps or flats, like the C major scale.
> Is this not correct?


The first thing I learned was off a sheet of paper with the keys and related chords. 

The chords pertaining to each key sounded pleasant to each other and I always assumed you would use these chords according to the key.

Deciding upon a key seems to be the difficult issue.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Bastille day said:


> Yes, very confusing, I am somewhat intimidated by it all.
> 
> I still like the fact I can play the song and make it recognizable without knowing which key it is in.
> 
> I doubt the banjo player in "Deliverance" really cared, perhaps I should look at it the same way.


Eric Weissberg went to Juilliard, so he very much did know what key he was in. The actor in the film wasn't a banjo player.

Peace, Mooh.


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## jeancoltrane (Feb 20, 2015)

some good suggestions above. ill try to explain it how it was taught to me many moons ago... theres many ways to think about it, but i always found using the sharp/flat circle method made it more confusing and is better suited to the piano. assuming you know the major scale, lets start in the key of C.

C D E F G A B 
I ii iii IV V vi vii
maj min min maj maj min min7b5

This is the 'pattern' the keys follow, so in the key of C you'd have Cmaj Dmin Emin Fmaj Gmaj(dominant 7th) Amin Bmin7b5. Each note corresponds to a chord. Likewise, in say the key of G which is G A B C D E F# the corresponding chords would be Gmaj Amin Bmin Cmaj D7 Emin F#min7b5. The pattern always stays the same, maj min min maj maj min min. I suggest Starting the major scale somewhere on the neck, figuring out the notes and then attaching the chords to them, playing the chords up and down the neck in barre form (instead of open chords) this will really help it make sense and get it under your fingers in a useful way. do it for a few keys. 

once you've done this a few times, start adding the 7ths to the chords and repeat. So in C, the 7th chords would be Cmaj7 Dmin7 Emin7 Fmaj7 G7 (dominant 7th) Amin7 Bmin7b5. This pattern also stays the same in every key. once you've got this under your fingers, you'll start to figure out little tricks that will help you know what the key is - for example there is only one Dominant 7th chord per key, so if you see a G7 chord theres a decent chance that section of the song is in C. Or if you see two minor chords a whole tone apart, say Dmin7 and Emin7 theres a good chance those are 2nd and 3rd chords of the key of C. Likewise if you see a maj7th and Min7th chord a semitone apart, say Fmaj7th and Emin7th, theres a decent chance those are the 3rd and 4th chords of the key of C. 

now this is where things get tricky, most songs dont strictly stick to one key. its common to borrow chords from other keys, or change keys during the bridge or chorus. for example, its pretty common to change min chords to major for added tension or resolution. in the key of C, the "2" chord in this case Dmin7, might get changed to Dmaj. If its just the one chord that is changed, or 'out of key' i would still consider the song in C but with a slight twist. Since Dmaj is D A F#, and D and A are still in the key of C, you could still see it as key of C but with a raised F to F# if soloing over that section. Alternatively, if after the Dmaj the next chord was a Gmaj7th (instead of dominant 7th) i would see the Dmaj to Gmaj7th as switching to the key of G, since there is no Dmaj or Gmaj7th in the key of C, and Dmaj Gmaj7th are the 5 (V) and 1 (i) chords of the key of G. So sometimes a song might borrow a quick chord from a separate key, or modulate keys entirely. 

Once you've got the hang of this a little bit, you can do some really cool stuff quite easily. for example its also common to use a chord from one key to pivot to different key (assuming both keys have that chord in common). So say youre playing Am and Cmaj in the key of C, if you go to the Fmaj for a chorus or bridge, instead of thinking key of C, you could start thinking key of F, since Fmaj is common to both Key of C and key of F. the chords in the key of F would be Fmaj7th Gmin7th Amin7th A#maj7th C7 Dmin7th Emin7b5 - so now youve got those extra chords available to really spice up your chorus, and then you could use the Dmin7th to pivot back to the key of C since its common to both as well. 

for the progression am, dm, f, g - i would definitely see that as key of C with the tonality based around the relative minor, Amin. True Minor keys technically have a different formula and use the harmonic minor scale to build chords off of. In the key of A minor you would change the Emin7th chord to an E7th to provide more resolution back to the tonic or root chord. Its basically the same as key of C except for the G# instead of G, and a pretty common device in the key of C would be to change the Emin7th to the E7th to provide a more minor tonality before heading to the Am chord... then you can continue in C as usual if you wish  but you can have a "relative minor' chord progression, that resolves to the relative minor chord without the song actually being in a true minor key. the relative minor chord is always the 6th chord of the key, in the key of C it would be Am7th. I usually associate it with the blues scale, or min pentatonic - so if youre like me and use the blues scale or pentatonic to find your bearings when first playing over a tune, and you find A blues scale seems to work best, theres a good chance youre in the key of C (think a minor third up from the root of the scale) or if B blues works, key of D etc. the main exception to this is if youre actually playing a blues song, in which case the root of the scale is typically the root of the key. 

anyway, i hope i didnt make too many mistakes and that this helps someone out. it might sound complicated at first but once you get it under your fingers it'll really come together quickly. it also helps to associate the proper modes or scales with each chord of the key, then you'll be flyin...


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## jeancoltrane (Feb 20, 2015)

i just remembered a funny relative minor story...
when i first started playing i was taking lessons from a great guitarist that really had no formal theory training. i was starting to learn keys and scales and wanted to jam with my mom who was a classically trained pianist. well, jamming was new to both of us (as you know the saying about classical players who can play a sonata first try with sheet music but draw a complete blank when trying to play anything without notation) so i said, lets try jamming in a minor. well we started playing and it was a complete mess. we couldnt figure out what was wrong, i mean i had jammed in a minor fine with my teacher and it worked well. well after a few failed jams i got into an argument with my mom about what A minor was. it turns out in classical training, when you play in a 'minor key', youre actually playing the harmonic minor mode and its related chords where as i was playing in the 'relative minor', or in that case just a straight C scale ./facepalm 
i didnt know there was a difference up until that point and i dont think my teacher did either. generally, when someone says the song is in E minor they really mean relative minor, or key of G. so, if you jam with a classical player dont make that same mistake, just say key of C


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## jeancoltrane (Feb 20, 2015)

nkjanssen said:


> Or just play a bit of the song and figure out which chord, if played last, would give you the most resolved-sounding ending.
> 
> _That's_ the key of the song.


true in probably most cases, but there are chord progressions where the resolution or cadence isnt so obvious. perhaps the melody is giving the resolution, or some type of rhythmic cadence. or maybe it doesnt resolve at all. context is important.

id probably be a bit confused if someone told me a song was in C# because the last chorus resolved there, after modulating up a half step ; )


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