# Why Doesn't Our Music Store Stock XYZ Products?



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

This thread was prompted by a discussion I recently had with a music store owner. I finally got to try the top of the line guitar from one of my favourite mfrs. I have often wondered how good they are since they are priced less than half of what the well known top brands sell with the same specs. The big retailer in Canada and some in the USA stock the lower and some middle of line instruments but not the best of the line. I always suspected it was because it would cut into the sales of their expensive guitars. The owner actually said that was so without me even suggesting that was the reason. He said they want to sell a $2500.00 XYZ brand rather than a $1000.00 ABC brand that is every bit as good but not as well known by the general player. Our discussion just made me more aware of not only doing our due diligence but being careful when we recommend something to someone else, especially someone new to playing so we don't have them spending 2-3 times what we/they can get for 1/2 or 1/3 of that.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I would say you not recommend that shop to 'someone new', owner seems shady


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Steadfastly said:


> He said they want to sell a $2500.00 XYZ brand rather than a $1000.00


That's how business' work. Profit margin to feed one's family.

Also in agreement with the above post.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Since you already mentioned which retailer in Canada you mean (THE big one), and you are speaking about a specific brand, why don't you just say which brand (ABC) you mean?
Oh, and since your owner can't sell brand XYZ, of course he's going to say that.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> This thread was prompted by a discussion I recently had with a music store owner. I finally got to try the top of the line guitar from one of my favourite mfrs. I have often wondered how good they are since they are priced less than half of what the well known top brands sell with the same specs. The big retailer in Canada and some in the USA stock the lower and some middle of line instruments but not the best of the line. I always suspected it was because it would cut into the sales of their expensive guitars. The owner actually said that was so without me even suggesting that was the reason. He said they want to sell a $2500.00 XYZ brand rather than a $1000.00 ABC brand that is every bit as good but not as well known by the general player. Our discussion just made me more aware of not only doing our due diligence but being careful when we recommend something to someone else, especially someone new to playing so we don't have them spending 2-3 times what we/they can get for 1/2 or 1/3 of that.


Sounds like you answered your own question.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

GuitarT said:


> Sounds like you answered your own question.


It wasn't a question so much as a confirmation of what I thought. I have worked for a couple of large corporations in a high enough capacity to understand how many things are done and why those games are played. It's not just the music business but many businesses are run the same way and it's not always the retailers and wholesalers fault but some of it is pushed on them by their suppliers. "If you want to have this product, then you have to take so many of these. This is where we, as consumers, need to be able to read between the business lines as it were and not fall into that trap by swallowing everything we're told be it the retailer, their staff or advertising.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I have no idea what you are talking about. 

There are so many things that go into making a guitar that can affect the price you need to know what they are then compare what you are looking at. To generalize with XYZ and ABC makes me wonder how much you know about guitars and what makes a good one over a lesser one.

Give us 2 guitars to compare with the prices please.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

player99 said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> There are so many things that go into making a guitar that can affect the price you need to know what they are then compare what you are looking at. To generalize with XYZ and ABC makes me wonder how much you know about guitars and what makes a good one over a lesser one.
> 
> Give us 2 guitars to compare with the prices please.


If you want to talk about two specific guitars, you are in the wrong thread. I am talking about the business of music lines or simply put, a group of products from one mfr. That is likely why you don't know what I am talking about. I don't mean to be rude but read my post.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

player99 said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about.


 Just another "Gibsons are over priced, you can get as good a guitar for half the price so you must be a sucker if you buy one" thread.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Steadfastly said:


> If you want to talk about two specific guitars, you are in the wrong thread. I am talking about the business of music lines or simply put, a group of products from one mfr. That is likely why you don't know what I am talking about. I don't mean to be rude but read my post.


Thanks for replying. I am not taking it as rude. I did not mean to come off rude either.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

These are some of the things that can cause a difference in price.

The quality of the wood.
The finish, as in nitro or 2 part epoxy.
The quality of the electronics, 
Fret wire quality and hardness
Tuners.
The fretboard accuracy.
The bridge- materials, design, cast or carved.
The quality of workmanship.
The overall build.
Setup quality.
The pickups. 
The sound.
The feel and playability.
The Mojo.
The consistency of quality of every guitar made.
The wages paid to the workers.
The environmental laws in the county where it is made.
Etc.

Then there is the markup. If it is being imported, then distributed, then wholesaled can make a difference. How many hands does it go through until you get it?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

player99 said:


> The Mojo.


this is where the thread takes a serious turn, from Steadly troll posts to in-depth discussions about guitars


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

vadsy said:


> this is where the thread takes a serious turn, from Steadly troll posts to in-depth discussions about guitars


Am I getting trolled here?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

player99 said:


> Am I getting trolled here?


We’re all getting trolled


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

vadsy said:


> We’re all getting trolled


What by God? Is life on this planet just one big troll job?


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeah, you didn’t believe all that stuff about turning water into wine did ya. The whole thing been a riff from day one and Steadley is the nearest thing to the second coming as any of y’all ever gonna see.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

player99 said:


> What by God? Is life on this planet just one big troll job?


OP may think he’s doing the Lords work, Gibson is the Antichrist


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

player99 said:


> Thanks for replying. I am not taking it as rude. I did not mean to come off rude either.


Well glad to know there's two of us left who doesn't want to be rude.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> This thread was prompted by a discussion I recently had with a music store owner. I finally got to try the top of the line guitar from one of my favourite mfrs. I have often wondered how good they are since they are priced less than half of what the well known top brands sell with the same specs. The big retailer in Canada and some in the USA stock the lower and some middle of line instruments but not the best of the line. I always suspected it was because it would cut into the sales of their expensive guitars. The owner actually said that was so without me even suggesting that was the reason. He said they want to sell a $2500.00 XYZ brand rather than a $1000.00 ABC brand that is every bit as good but not as well known by the general player. Our discussion just made me more aware of not only doing our due diligence but being careful when we recommend something to someone else, especially someone new to playing so we don't have them spending 2-3 times what we/they can get for 1/2 or 1/3 of that.


Names, places, dates. What brands? What store? What prices? Spit it out. Don't speak in riddles.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

BMW-KTM said:


> Names, places, dates. What brands? What store? What prices? Spit it out. Don't speak in riddles.


It really doesn't matter as this happens across the whole industry with lots of different mfrs. I don't think it takes a lot of imagination to know who the big players are that can put pressure on the retailers to put their product on the shelves rather than the competition.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

player99 said:


> Am I getting trolled here?


Not by me.


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## sillyak (Oct 22, 2016)

I'll buy what I like. Maybe it's a Gibson, maybe it's an import. I've laid my money down for both choices.

If I am willing to pay for something, with money I worked my butt off for, it's worth that price. Yes I have an American Fender and two Gibsons on my wall. All worth the price paid, it's no one's place to say any different. Unless of course it's your wallet, then you get to make those decisions.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Larry (Sep 3, 2016)

Regardless of XYZ, ..... if i was a Shop owner and had inventory that $panned the high to low spectrum, .....you treat every customer the same, regardless of their budget, and encourage them to try everything , make some suggestions to their need, and that customer is now a customer for Life. First impressions go a long way. That's how i was treated the first time i set foot in my Local Music Shop.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> This thread was prompted by a discussion I recently had with a music store owner. I finally got to try the top of the line guitar from one of my favourite mfrs. I have often wondered how good they are since they are priced less than half of what the well known top brands sell with the same specs. The big retailer in Canada and some in the USA stock the lower and some middle of line instruments but not the best of the line. I always suspected it was because it would cut into the sales of their expensive guitars. The owner actually said that was so without me even suggesting that was the reason. He said they want to sell a $2500.00 XYZ brand rather than a $1000.00 ABC brand that is every bit as good but not as well known by the general player. Our discussion just made me more aware of not only doing our due diligence but being careful when we recommend something to someone else, especially someone new to playing so we don't have them spending 2-3 times what we/they can get for 1/2 or 1/3 of that.


Sorry, but if that were even remotely true, why haven't we seen a flurry of folks who know guitars exposing this hypothesis by providing us with the facts and evidence that the $1000 ABC guitars are as good as the $2500 XYZ brands?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

player99 said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> There are so many things that go into making a guitar that can affect the price you need to know what they are then compare what you are looking at. To generalize with XYZ and ABC makes me wonder how much you know about guitars and what makes a good one over a lesser one.
> 
> Give us 2 guitars to compare with the prices please.


I'm not sure what he's talking about either.
I'm pretty sure a music store owner is going to want to stock more $1,000 guitars than $2,500 guitars. And more $500 guitars than $1,000 guitars maybe. Sales volumes are made on the lower end guitars. The higher priced guitars are sat on longer and end up being discounted just to move them, making profit margins slimmer. Thats why you don't see many many fender\gibson custom shop guitars being stocked in most of the Long and Mcquades.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

My local No Frills has stopped stocking the NN _Cheese-tastic! _cheese spread and now only sells Kraft _Cheez Whiz_. I actually *prefer* the NN spreadable cheez and of course it's cheaper. Is this a conspiracy between Kraft and Loblaws to limit my choice to the better choice *for them*? OF COURSE IT IS!

Nothing is illegal if one hundred businessmen decide to do it. _Andrew Young_


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

jimsz said:


> Sorry, but if that were even remotely true, why haven't we seen a flurry of folks who know guitars exposing this hypothesis by providing us with the facts and evidence that the $1000 ABC guitars are as good as the $2500 XYZ brands?


The $1,000 guitar is way better than the $2,500 guitar. To the guy that couldn't afford the $2,500 guitar.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Doug Gifford said:


> My local No Frills has stopped stocking the NN _Cheese-tastic! _cheese spread and now only sells Kraft _Cheez Whiz_. I actually *prefer* the NN spreadable cheez and of course it's cheaper. Is this a conspiracy between Kraft and Loblaws to limit my choice to the better choice *for them*? OF COURSE IT IS!
> 
> Nothing is illegal if one hundred businessmen decide to do it. _Andrew Young_


I can't take any more illicit drugs
I can't afford any artificial joy
I'd sure look like a fool dead in a ditch somewhere
With a mind full of chemicals
*Like some cheese-eating high school boy





*


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

guitarman2 said:


> The $1,000 guitar is way better than the $2,500 guitar. To the guy that couldn't afford the $2,500 guitar.


$1000 with a 30% markup is $300 profit for seller.
$2500 with a 30% markup is $750 profit for seller.

So the true value of the more expensive guitar is less because everyone along the way is shoehorning a larger % into their greedy pockets. The importer, the distributor, the wholesaler, the retailer. The shipping companies charge more for the insurance. The import brokers charge more for their fees to import. The govt charges more for import taxes.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> It really doesn't matter as this happens across the whole industry with lots of different mfrs. I don't think it takes a lot of imagination to know who the big players are that can put pressure on the retailers to put their product on the shelves rather than the competition.


Showing just the list of Electric Guitars from the L&M website, we find an array of brands they sell, please tell us which brands are not on that list so that we can see your argument is not based on your imagination?

Artiphon (2)
Charvel Guitars (78)
Danelectro (33)
Epiphone (122)
Ernie Ball (4)
Ernie Ball Music Man (35)
ESP Guitars (185)
EVH (44)
Fender (353)
Fender Custom Shop (138)
Gibson (240)
Gibson Custom Shop (30)
Godin Guitars (52)
Gold Tone (4)
Gretsch Guitars (54)
Ibanez (145)
Jackson Guitars (283)
Kramer (28)
Line 6 (14)
Paul Reed Smith (78)
Rickenbacker (10)
Schecter (75)
Squier (108)
Sterling by Music Man (24)
Taylor Guitars (12)
Traveler Guitar (13)
Yamaha (10)


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

player99 said:


> $1000 with a 30% markup is $300 profit for seller.
> $2500 with a 30% markup is $750 profit for seller.
> 
> So the true value of the more expensive guitar is less because everyone along the way is shoehorning a larger % into their greedy pockets. The importer, the distributor, the wholesaler, the retailer. The shipping companies charge more for the insurance. The import brokers charge more for their fees to import. The govt charges more for import taxes.


Theres more to it than that. The music store will sell more lower priced instruments so volume of sales will be better. The more expensive instruments are more likely to be discounted just to get them moving. So that will cut in to the 30% profit margin
The last Telecaster I bought actually cost $2,500 and it was in the store for close to a year before I bought it. I remember when it first came in and I was interested but not yet at the point where I could get it. I'll bet in the time it was there that many $1,000 guitars come and went.
A few years ago I bought a Gibson R7 that was originally about 5k. It was a 2013 (I bought it in 2016) so it had been hanging around the store for 3 years. It had some of what they called "Shop wear" so with all the discounts to get it moving I ended up buying it for $3,600. Thats $1,400 less than what they had originally asked. Wonder what their profit margin was on that?


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

jimsz said:


> which brands are not on that list


All the '_just as good if not better than_' guitars available through rondo music.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

guitarman2 said:


> Theres more to it than that. The music store will sell more lower priced instruments so volume of sales will be better. The more expensive instruments are more likely to be discounted just to get them moving. So that will cut in to the 30% profit margin
> The last Telecaster I bought actually cost $2,500 and it was in the store for close to a year before I bought it. I remember when it first came in and I was interested but not yet at the point where I could get it. I'll bet in the time it was there that many $1,000 guitars come and went.
> A few years ago I bought a Gibson R7 that was originally about 5k. It was a 2013 (I bought it in 2016) so it had been hanging around the store for 3 years. It had some of what they called "Shop wear" so with all the discounts to get it moving I ended up buying it for $3,600. Thats $1,400 less than what they had originally asked. Wonder what their profit margin was on that?


I heard once that the really expensive guitars have a higher markup than the cheaper ones. I was being conservative with the 30%.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Margins depend on a few things. Some manufacturers insist on carrying a certain dollar amount of stock.

Im sure jbeals is having a chuckle at this thread.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

laristotle said:


> All the '_just as good if not better than_' guitars available through rondo music.


Rondo, there's a name I've not heard in a while. Went to their website and found their most expensive guitar, an 8 string beast for $999.99.

Agile Pendulum Elite 82528 EB EMG Tribal Blue


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

jimsz said:


> Rondo, there's a name I've not heard in a while. Went to their website and found their most expensive guitar, an 8 string beast for $999.99.
> 
> Agile Pendulum Elite 82528 EB EMG Tribal Blue


yea but from a competitor that guitar would be thirteen million dollars, so youre getting a really good deal with the Rondo


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Didn't know that Guitar Center, Musicians Friend and Music and Arts are owned by Bain Capital, one of Mitt Romneys Companies.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

vadsy said:


> *yea but from a competitor that guitar would be thirteen million dollars,* so youre getting a really good deal with the Rondo


That is outrageous. ;-)


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Stores sell what they can get the best markup on.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I have limited experience in how the guitar manufacturers really work their business models. Based on my limited experience teaching in a small Mom and Pop shop, it's difficult as hell to carry certain major brands like Gibson and Fender. At least it used to be. Maybe the business models have changed. Someone else actually in the know can chime in here. I think Gibson required the store to carry XYZ number of guitars and allow ABC amount of space designated to that brand. Specifically the Gibson brand. That may even sway into models, but that's only based on my own supposition. Fender ran the same "gambit" the same way, at least to a certain extent. Epiphone and Squire are a different model I think. I also believe the retailer is required to sell XXX number of units before they can "reup".....sorta like scoring that great bag of weed from a trusted source.... Even a seemingly small and innocuous company from Canada named Godin has their own business model on how they deal with retailers, as I'm sure every company does. I think Godin allow certain models of instruments to be sold at specific retailers while other retailers are allowed to only carry other models. I believe I read that the reason was to limit the bigger retailers from cornering the whole brand. In the end Godin wants tp reach as many possible customers as possible while still making a profit for both the retailers and of course Godin.

Is this the type of thing you're on about @Steadfastly ? Your OP doesn't make it very clear at all.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Cut out the middlemen and assemble your own. Stewmac is having a big sale on guitar kits. A tele for $198 CAD. I don't think they will ship the more expensive kits that include liquid finish. Stewmac won"t ship any liquids to Canada.

Electric Guitar Kits | stewmac.com


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

GuitarT said:


> Just another "Gibsons are over priced, you can get as good a guitar for half the price so you must be a sucker if you buy one" thread.





vadsy said:


> We’re all getting trolled


It's like is someone reached the afterlife and their fate was having to post the same theme for eternity, but they have to change it up a little every time, no copy & paste.
The bottom line is that he honestly thinks most here are fools, chumps, and dupes, and feels it is his mission to get everyone to see the light.



jimsz said:


> Didn't know that Guitar Center, Musicians Friend and Music and Arts are owned by Bain Capital, one of Mitt Romneys Companies.


Wow! Maybe we're in for a JW vs Mormon smackdown. Not sure how he's going to be able to keep on supporting and shilling for 'Big Mormon Corp.'.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

It might be useful for our OP to recall that a certain (as yet unspecified) Canadian music store company is the sole Canadian distributor for a certain (as yet unspecified) guitar company and that as such it might be in their best interests to sell that brand, since they are both the distributor and the retailer. With that in mind, I think they show incredible restraint, not trying to force those products down our throats. They should be commended, not reproved.


(and this comes from a guy who has never quite been able to bond with a guitar from that brand)


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

How come nobody in this thread will talk about brands?


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

That's how you know something is bullshit.
When somebody makes a railing accusation but refuses to provide proof.


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

deleted on second thought

i'm not sure how to remove a post on this format

have a happy guitar playing day
j


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

I'm not sure why I bothered to read 4 pages of posts hoping to find something interesting. In the end, I think this out of context quote sums it up.


Steadfastly said:


> It really doesn't matter


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

laristotle said:


> That's how business' work. Profit margin to feed one's family.



I was in my local L&M the other day having a friend search their used inventory for combo amps. When their assistant manager wandered over to chat he said he didn't want to sell me an amp, he wanted to sell me more guitars. When I asked why, he said "those amps cost a few hundred dollars, your cheapest guitar costs $3000 - which do you think I'd rather sell you?" I had to admit that he had a point.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

colchar said:


> I was in my local L&M the other day having a friend search their used inventory for combo amps. When their assistant manager wandered over to chat he said he didn't want to sell me an amp, he wanted to sell me more guitars. When I asked why, he said "those amps cost a few hundred dollars, your cheapest guitar costs $3000 - which do you think I'd rather sell you?" I had to admit that he had a point.


I don't think the guy at L&M knew what he was talking about. First its not up to the assistant manager what he sells you. Its up to what the customer wants. As far as their cheapest guitar costs $3,000, I guess he doesn't know his own inventory.

Reminds me of my latest L&M experience. A few weeks ago I was at the grand opening of L&M's new Cambridge location. I was looking for acoustic guitar strings. Specifically I wanted the D'addario EJ17 3 pack which I knew they carried. I spoke with one of the sales guys who I know has worked there for at least a few years and he says "oh we've never carried those". Even though I know I've bought them before. I figured no sense in arguing. Walking around the store I noticed the EJ17 3 pack sitting in a big bin (had to be about 30-40 packs) no where near the acoustic strings. I waited in line for that particular sales guy as I wanted to kind shove it in his face but he was busy filling some other customer BS about some guitar and my wife made me change to another line as she wanted to get out of there.
The same day I was looking at what was supposed to be a Gibson SG Standard with a vibrato on it. I was asking a different sales guy what the pickups were as it wasn't noted anywhere. I wanted to know if they were 57 classics. The sales guy said "no the pickups are Maestro". I looked at him a bit odd and said "Thats the name of the vibrato isn't it". He looked at me and said "Maybe". 
Normally I don't care that these L&M sales guys usually know nothing but once in a while it annoys me. I can go in to the Home Depot in Brantford and just about any of these older guys, I can ask a question and they know their stuff. Usually above and beyond what I expect.
Why can't these L&M employees at least know their inventory? I'm sure there's probably some L&M employees that know a little about the gear they sell but not man y that I've met.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

@guitarman2 I think colchar meant that he buys $3k guitars and sub-$1k amps from L&M. I could be wrong.

As for staff not knowing things - are you nice to the staff? Do they recognize you at all? If you're in retail long enough, you can probably spot specific personality types from body language alone (across the room). It's also possible that while you bought those strings there, they didn't sell well so they don't carry stock. Also if it's a new store, perhaps it's a less common set. I have no idea, I don't own an acoustic.

I have no issues with staff at my L&M location, and they tell me if they don't know the answer.

And as we are basically in the christmas season, remember -* don't be shitty to retail staff.*


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Budda said:


> @guitarman2 I think colchar meant that he buys $3k guitars and sub-$1k amps from L&M. I could be wrong.
> 
> As for staff not knowing things - are you nice to the staff? Do they recognize you at all? If you're in retail long enough, you can probably spot specific personality types from body language alone (across the room). It's also possible that while you bought those strings there, they didn't sell well so they don't carry stock. Also if it's a new store, perhaps it's a less common set. I have no idea, I don't own an acoustic.
> 
> ...


I'm always nice to the staff. As I said I don't usually get bothered by the fact they don't know what they should. 
For the strings, as I said there was a big bin full of what I asked for. But he didn't know they were there. They've sold them for years and they do sell well because its a few dollars cheaper to buy the 3 pack then buy 3 individual sets. And the guy that thinks the name on the vibrato is what the pickups are called, well I just shake my head.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> For the strings, as I said there was a big bin full of what I asked for. But he didn't know they were there.


Sometimes little details are missed I guess.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> I don't think the guy at L&M knew what he was talking about. First its not up to the assistant manager what he sells you. Its up to what the customer wants. As far as their cheapest guitar costs $3,000, I guess he doesn't know his own inventory.


Read what I wrote again. He did not say _their _cheapest guitar costs $3000, he said that _my_ cheapest guitar cost $3000 (well my Partscaster Tele doesn't but I don't think he has ever seen my Tele). The last two guitars I bought from that store were both bought from him. One was my Limited Edition Songwriter acoustic (original price of $3599 but I got it for $2100 after Steve Long arranged to have it shipped in from another store) and the other was my ES-335 ($2999). That is what he was referring to.

The sales guy I was dealing with is a friend of mine, and the manager is a buddy. I have both of their cell numbers in my phone. I have other friends who used to work at this store (one is a member here and if he reads this he will know exactly who the two people I was dealing with are), and a couple of more who still do. The manager was half joking around, and half serious because obviously they will make more money selling me guitars than they will amps. When he said it, I feigned offense and said "fine, I won't give you my money" but he wasn't trying to tell me what he would sell me, he was just joking around with a buddy and a big part of that was due to the fact that my last two interactions with him (both within the last couple of weeks) have involved me deciding whether to upgrade my ES-335 (Historic 335 maybe?) or to buy a Gibson Explorer. So he knows that I am looking to buy. If I buy the Explorer, it will be my cheapest guitar.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Budda said:


> @guitarman2 I think colchar meant that he buys $3k guitars and sub-$1k amps from L&M. I could be wrong.


@Budda a you are absolutely correct.

My last two amps weren't sub-$1K when new, but I got them for a great price because I buy used. The first was a Twin ($1899 new) that I got for $550, my current amp is an Orange AD30 ($1999 new) that I traded that Twin straight up for.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

player99 said:


> Cut out the middlemen and assemble your own. Stewmac is having a big sale on guitar kits. A tele for $198 CAD. I don't think they will ship the more expensive kits that include liquid finish. Stewmac won"t ship any liquids to Canada.
> 
> Electric Guitar Kits | stewmac.com


This only works for uber guitar geeks and people with good hand tool skills. Can't really ask a typical guitar player and buyer to make it themselves. Nobody has that amount of free time.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Steadfastly said:


> This thread was prompted by a discussion I recently had with a music store owner. I finally got to try the top of the line guitar from one of my favourite mfrs. I have often wondered how good they are since they are priced less than half of what the well known top brands sell with the same specs. The big retailer in Canada and some in the USA stock the lower and some middle of line instruments but not the best of the line. I always suspected it was because it would cut into the sales of their expensive guitars. The owner actually said that was so without me even suggesting that was the reason. He said they want to sell a $2500.00 XYZ brand rather than a $1000.00 ABC brand that is every bit as good but not as well known by the general player. Our discussion just made me more aware of not only doing our due diligence but being careful when we recommend something to someone else, especially someone new to playing so we don't have them spending 2-3 times what we/they can get for 1/2 or 1/3 of that.


Steadly my lad, you seem hell bent on furthering the narrative that cheap guitars are better or as good as expensive guitars. I have no issue with that, but why all the thinly veiled references and the need to appeal to authority?

Why not just start a thread saying 'in my opinion cheap guitars are as good or better than expensive guitars', state your reasoning and invite people to discuss it? You are just drawing fire.

What makes a guitar 'good' or 'better' is highly subjective and depends on so many things (including hand-size ;-)). So, IMHO as a highly opinionated issue, the discussion might benefit from being framed a little differently. Just a thought.

Carry on gents.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Rozz said:


> Steadly my lad, you seem hell bent on furthering the narrative that cheap guitars are better or as good as expensive guitars.


It's more than that.
Capitalism is his problem. IMO
People should not be making more than a reasonable profit off of you. If at all.
However, business' are not charities.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

To make a blanket statement that cheap guitars are better than expensive guitars is stupid. There are some less expensive guitars that are great value and appeal to players that simply don't hear or realize the benefits of more expensive guitars.
I wanted as close to the prewar sound in acoustics as I could get. The closest I could get with out spending vintage prices was my 2 Martin Authentics. The less expensive Martins with some prewar appointments couldn't get me as close to the vintage prewar sound. So maybe not better than a less expensive guitar but for my needs it is.
Now a guitar builder by the name of the PreWar Co has come along and is reportedly building guitars even closer to that dry vintage tone than even the authentics. A lot well known celebrity players have endorsed them as well as some players I respect. And they cost even more money. A rosewood herringbone will set you back about 12k Canadian.
A Masterbuilt nocaster that I used to own was probably the best Tele I ever owned. New it would have cost probably 8k. I sold it and now own an AO 50's tele that cost me $2,500 new. I could say its just as good as the Masterbuilt I owned but I'd be lying. That masterbuilt was magical. But my AO tele is more than adequate. I've played many custom shop teles as well as owned and played some amazing smaller builder boutique guitars. So I have some experience. I visit music stores often and I play everything from $300 yamaha's to the most expensive in the store. I have loved some of the really inexpensive guitars and many of them have surprised the hell out of me for how good they sounded and played. I could see someone buying a 1k eastman and saying its better than the $3,300 D-18 they played. Because for them the Eastman met their needs and they never felt that any diminishing returns of the more expensive guitar was worth it. But in reality it doesn't mean that less expensive guitar was as good or better.


----------



## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

The value of anything is in the eye of the beholder. Quality has a lot of bearing on how valuable something is but there are other things that may or may not be as important. Desirability, beauty, rarity, etc. can all be in play depending on the buyer. To make blanket statements about value and quality is foolish.

For me an instrument is a tool I use to make music. I like tools that please me as well as get the job done.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> I don't think the guy at L&M knew what he was talking about. First its not up to the assistant manager what he sells you. Its up to what the customer wants. As far as their cheapest guitar costs $3,000, I guess he doesn't know his own inventory.
> 
> Reminds me of my latest L&M experience. A few weeks ago I was at the grand opening of L&M's new Cambridge location. I was looking for acoustic guitar strings. Specifically I wanted the D'addario EJ17 3 pack which I knew they carried. I spoke with one of the sales guys who I know has worked there for at least a few years and he says "oh we've never carried those". Even though I know I've bought them before. I figured no sense in arguing. Walking around the store I noticed the EJ17 3 pack sitting in a big bin (had to be about 30-40 packs) no where near the acoustic strings. I waited in line for that particular sales guy as I wanted to kind shove it in his face but he was busy filling some other customer BS about some guitar and my wife made me change to another line as she wanted to get out of there.
> The same day I was looking at what was supposed to be a Gibson SG Standard with a vibrato on it. I was asking a different sales guy what the pickups were as it wasn't noted anywhere. I wanted to know if they were 57 classics. The sales guy said "no the pickups are Maestro". I looked at him a bit odd and said "Thats the name of the vibrato isn't it". He looked at me and said "Maybe".
> ...


I know most of the local ones will look it up if they don't know, and most of the es I talk to are experienced enough to know when they know it & when they don't.
Sometimes the best thing they can say is, "I don't know, but I can check."


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Steadly starts these threads and then must immediately put everyone on ignore cuz there is no accountability never mind any kind of sensible discussion.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

LanceT said:


> Steadly starts these threads and then must immediately put everyone on ignore cuz there is no accountability never mind any kind of sensible discussion.


How long has this been going on?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

player99 said:


> How long has this been going on?


Basically forever


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

vadsy said:


> Basically forever


You guys are just telling me now?


----------



## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

laristotle said:


> It's more than that.
> Capitalism is his problem. IMO
> People should not be making more than a reasonable profit off of you. If at all.
> However, business' are not charities.


Well, you would know better than I would. ;-)


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

guitarman2 said:


> To make a blanket statement that cheap guitars are better than expensive guitars is stupid.


Better value.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

jimsz said:


> Didn't know that Guitar Center, Musicians Friend and Music and Arts are owned by Bain Capital, one of Mitt Romneys Companies.


I find it strange that the OP constantly pushes the idea that L&M is the devil while these huge American retailers, with their stupid deals of the day, are heaven-sent. He is so marketed to he doesn't even know how marketed to he is. He is the perfect consumer in a consumer-driven capitalist economy, because he's so ill-informed and deluded. 

Other than that, all I can say is:



High/Deaf said:


> I love threads like this. It really reinforces the fact that just because somebody has an internet connection, it doesn't mean they know shit from shinola wrt guitars. Or that they even know what to look for in a guitar. Or even if they know how to play one.
> 
> I will never rely just on the internet for sage advice regarding just about anything. It's a useful tool but it is so full of useless tools.


----------



## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

Interesting pedal.
I really wish they'd turn down the gain to about noon.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

player99 said:


> How long has this been going on?


"Well, your friends With their fancy persuasion 
Don't admit that it's part of a scheme 
But I can't help but have my suspicion 
'Cause I ain't quite as dumb as I seem"


----------



## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

jb welder said:


> "Well, your friends With their fancy persuasion
> Don't admit that it's part of a scheme
> But I can't help but have my suspicion
> 'Cause I ain't quite as dumb as I seem"


That comment was Ace.


----------



## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

jb welder said:


> "Well, your friends With their fancy persuasion
> Don't admit that it's part of a scheme
> But I can't help but have my suspicion
> 'Cause I ain't quite as dumb as I seem"


Classic response.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

jimsz said:


> Showing just the list of Electric Guitars from the L&M website, we find an array of brands they sell, please tell us which brands are not on that list so that we can see your argument is not based on your imagination?
> 
> Artiphon (2)
> Charvel Guitars (78)
> ...


Since you did not get the point in the first place and posted the rude reply above why would you expect me to answer your question or correct your misunderstanding?


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Classic Steadly


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> Since you did not get the point in the first place and posted the rude reply above why would you expect me to answer your question or correct your misunderstanding?


So what was your point Steadly? I wrote a fairly long post asking you if what I wrote is what you meant. I'm still not sure what you're talking about. You're just leaving everyone to guess your intentions and not explaining it if they haven't got it right. Can you rephrase what you mean for those of us not quite bright enough to understand your much higher level of insight and experience than all others?


----------



## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> Since you did not get the point in the first place and posted the rude reply above why would you expect me to answer your question or correct your misunderstanding?


That is the second time in as many threads you claimed I didn't get your point. Others said they don't understand what you're saying. Perhaps, the issue is not us understanding your point but instead it is you who fails to communicate your point effectively? And, if so many here are failing to understand your point and you refuse to correct their misunderstanding, then maybe you don't have a point to make in the first place.

Please, feel free to correct all of our misunderstandings, if indeed, you actually have something valid to say.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

jimsz said:


> That is the second time in as many threads you claimed I didn't get your point. Others said they don't understand what you're saying. Perhaps, the issue is not us understanding your point but instead it is you who fails to communicate your point effectively? And, if so many here are failing to understand your point and you refuse to correct their misunderstanding, then maybe you don't have a point to make in the first place.
> 
> Please, feel free to correct all of our misunderstandings, if indeed, you actually have something valid to say.


You're more likely to hear this than a well thought out response...


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> There are some less expensive guitars that are great value and appeal to players that simply don't hear or realize the benefits of more expensive guitars.



If forced to choose one of my three electrics (Partscaster Tele, R8, ES-335) to keep, I would keep my Partscaster.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> Theres more to it than that. The music store will sell more lower priced instruments so volume of sales will be better. The more expensive instruments are more likely to be discounted just to get them moving. So that will cut in to the 30% profit margin
> The last Telecaster I bought actually cost $2,500 and it was in the store for close to a year before I bought it. I remember when it first came in and I was interested but not yet at the point where I could get it. I'll bet in the time it was there that many $1,000 guitars come and went.
> A few years ago I bought a Gibson R7 that was originally about 5k. It was a 2013 (I bought it in 2016) so it had been hanging around the store for 3 years. It had some of what they called "Shop wear" so with all the discounts to get it moving I ended up buying it for $3,600. Thats $1,400 less than what they had originally asked. Wonder what their profit margin was on that?



My limited edition Songwriter was originally $3599, I got it for $2100. Gotta wonder about the markup on that one too.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

jimsz said:


> *That is the second time in as many threads you claimed I didn't get your point.* Others said they don't understand what you're saying. Perhaps, the issue is not us understanding your point but instead it is you who fails to communicate your point effectively? And, if so many here are failing to understand your point and you refuse to correct their misunderstanding, then maybe you don't have a point to make in the first place.
> 
> Please, feel free to correct all of our misunderstandings, if indeed, you actually have something valid to say.


If you want me to name the companies I was alluding to, forget it. If you want a reply from me on any posts in the future, don't be rude.


----------



## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> If you want me to name the companies I was alluding to, forget it.


Is that because you won't name them or you can't? Since your post was dissected by a number of folks here as making no sense, it's most likely the latter.



Steadfastly said:


> If you want a reply from me on any posts in the future, don't be rude.


Sure, you're free to use the excuse that I'm being rude to you, but that's just a lame excuse for not being able to follow through on your claims. That's what the vast majority of responses from everyone else here are pointing out to you.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

@(*UY


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 278670


the guy on the right. I know that guy


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

jimsz said:


> Showing just the list of Electric Guitars from the L&M website, we find an array of brands they sell, please tell us which brands are not on that list so that we can see your argument is not based on your imagination?
> 
> Artiphon (2)
> Charvel Guitars (78)
> ...


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Does anyone know where I can get one of those two tank 5 gallon console humidifiers like Sears use to sell; mine broke, no one seems to have them anymore but they are still being made. Dry season is commin up real soon and the hygrometer is headin for the red.


----------



## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> If you want me to name the companies I was alluding to, forget it.


May I ask why you won’t name the companies? You said one of them is a brand that is every bit as good but not as well known by the general player, so why not try to educate the general player? If there’s a quality company that many people don’t know about, I usually want to tell others about it. That will help the company be successful so that I can be a customer again in the future. Keeping a quality company a secret is like secretly hoping they will go out of business, which doesn’t make sense if they are liked.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Wardo said:


> Does anyone know where I can get one of those two tank 5 gallon console humidifiers like Sears use to sell; mine broke, no one seems to have them anymore but they are still being made. Dry season is commin up real soon and the hygrometer is headin for the red.


Are they the ones that use an oval shaped filter? Factory direct sells them new.
HOLMES COOL MIST HUMIDIFIER FOR LARGE ROOMS UP TO 2000 SQ FT


Are these the ones used on Kijiji?

Kijiji Canada


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

troyhead said:


> *May I ask why you won’t name the companies?* You said one of them is a brand that is every bit as good but not as well known by the general player, so why not try to educate the general player? If there’s a quality company that many people don’t know about, I usually want to tell others about it. That will help the company be successful so that I can be a customer again in the future. Keeping a quality company a secret is like secretly hoping they will go out of business, which doesn’t make sense if they are liked.


The music store owner and I were looking at one brand but he was speaking in generalities. He mentioned a few brands. As to the quality of the one we were speaking about, I have discussed it here a couple of times on other threads so you have been educated if you read those threads.

The point of the thread is not brands but why music stores stock one brand at certain price points and avoid others, that are of high quality but lower in price.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Say what you mean and mean what you say.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> The point of the thread is not brands but why music stores stock one brand at certain price points and avoid others, that are of high quality but lower in price.


Allow me to educate you on your so-called point, it is often referred to as*...

Hand*-*waving* (with various spellings) is a pejorative label for attempting to be seen as effective – in word, reasoning, or deed – while actually doing nothing effective or substantial. It is most often applied to debate techniques that involve fallacies, misdirection and the glossing over of details.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> The point of the thread is not brands but why music stores stock one brand at certain price points and avoid others, that are of high quality but lower in price.


they don't stock them because they won't make money. money is what they want to make in order to stay in business. follow me here for a little bit more. if Alveraz was so great and made money more shops would stock them, but they don't. because Gibson and Martin are great shops will stock them because they make money. does that make sense, Steadly?


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

jimsz said:


> Allow me to educate you on your so-called point, it is often referred to as*...
> 
> Hand*-*waving* (with various spellings) is a pejorative label for attempting to be seen as effective – in word, reasoning, or deed – while actually doing nothing effective or substantial. It is most often applied to debate techniques that involve fallacies, misdirection and the glossing over of details.


whoa, dude. you may have just described Steadly's entire life


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> The point of the thread is not brands but why music stores stock one brand at certain price points and avoid others, that are of high quality but lower in price.


I'll make it easier for everyone here and translate for you @Steadfastly .

"Why are music stores carrying Gibsons and not my favorite Asian imports". Now that we have that all straightened out, carry on.



vadsy said:


> they don't stock them because they won't make money. money is what they want to make in order to stay in business. follow me here for a little bit more. if Alveraz was so great and made money more shops would stock them, but they don't. because Gibson and Martin are great shops will stock them because they make money. does that make sense, Steadly?


Great point and quoted in case I'm not on the ignore list. I think it may be too late though.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Why don’t music stores carry big ass humidifiers that’s what I wanna know.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Wardo said:


> Why don’t music stores carry big ass humidifiers that’s what I wanna know.


Why don't some music stores use them? That's what I want to know.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Wardo said:


> Why don’t music stores carry big ass humidifiers that’s what I wanna know.


They do. I used to have to fill the one at my old job.

edit: misread, more an apt answer to @Dorian2


----------



## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Did nobody make an XYZ joke yet?


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Hammerhands said:


> Did nobody make an XYZ joke yet?


nope. so far this looks like funny


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

That’d be a good retirement gig filling humidifiers at music stores. Could do it on contract sorta like plowing their parking lots in the winter. Although I suppose you’d have to have some kind of malpractice insurance in case you fucked up and all their high end XYZ stuff imploded cause it dried out.


----------



## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Hammerhands said:


> Did nobody make an XYZ joke yet?


The guy on the left is pointing at their newly hired lead singer.


----------



## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

vadsy said:


> whoa, dude. you may have just described Steadly's entire life


That would be ... uh... disturbing.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

troyhead said:


> You said one of them is a brand that is every bit as good but not as well known by the general player, so why not try to educate the general player? If there’s a quality company that many people don’t know about, I usually want to tell others about it.





Steadfastly said:


> I have discussed it here a couple of times on other threads so you have been educated if you read those threads.


Well Troy, you have a few days of scouring all of Steadly's posts now, if you haven't read any of the threads the he's referring to.
Normally, a polite, non-rude way of replying would've been to type out a few sentences. That's what? five minutes of one's precious time?


----------



## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> He mentioned a few brands. As to the quality of the one we were speaking about, I have discussed it here a couple of times on other threads so you have been educated if you read those threads.


I didn’t know any stores other than Rondo carried Agile guitars. 



Steadfastly said:


> *The point of the thread is not brands* but why music stores stock one brand at certain price points and avoid others


So, it’s about brands but not specific brands? Isn’t that like having a discussion about the quality of TV shows but refusing to mention the name of any TV shows? It kind of kills the discussion. The thread title is in the form of a question, implying you are looking for a discussion. But your comments make it sound like you are looking to make a vague statement without discussing any other viewpoints. That is probably why people are expressing some frustration with this thread.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Budda said:


> They do. I used to have to fill the one at my old job.
> 
> edit: misread, more an apt answer to @Dorian2


More emphasis on "some". Comes down to space I suppose. It's almost mandatory around these part at winter time. Not sure about Ontario, but you've travelled here in your band so you probably have an idea.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

jimsz said:


> The guy on the left is pointing at their newly hired lead singer.


He has the best hair.


----------



## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> The music store owner and I were looking at one brand but he was speaking in generalities. He mentioned a few brands. As to the quality of the one we were speaking about, I have discussed it here a couple of times on other threads so you have been educated if you read those threads.
> 
> The point of the thread is not brands but why music stores stock one brand at certain price points and avoid others, that are of high quality but lower in price.


Call me crazy but I don't understand why you spend so much time and energy trolling people who own guitars you obviously can't afford.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Morkolo said:


> Call me crazy but I don't understand why you spend so much time and energy trolling people who own guitars you obviously can't afford.


Yeah for sure; I’ve never seen anyone on this site say anything like wow I’m great I have a bunch of expensive guitars. Some people can afford a few good guitars but from what I see they tend to be humble about it and don’t need to be trolled.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Well, somebody's asleep at the wheel. Radar must have broked.
@traynor_garnet has a thread going about going to look for Gibsons. Boy does he need to be schooled.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

jb welder said:


> Well, somebody's asleep at the wheel. Radar must have broked.
> @traynor_garnet has a thread going about going to look for Gibsons. Boy does he need to be schooled.


WTF? Honestly, WTF does this mean?

TG


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

traynor_garnet said:


> WTF? Honestly, WTF does this mean?
> 
> TG


Do you have a minute to talk about the wonder and beauty of Rondo?


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

traynor_garnet said:


> WTF? Honestly, WTF does this mean?
> 
> TG


Sorry, I'm being sarcastic, and not about you. I'm honestly surprised the OP of this thread hasn't jumped in on yours yet. He's duty bound to school anyone and everyone of the evil that is Gibson, even when he won't mention the name. 
I honestly thought he must get notifications when anyone posts the word, so that's what I meant about broken radar.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Gibson Gibson Gibson Gibson


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Morkolo said:


> Call me crazy but I don't understand why you spend so much time and energy trolling people who own* guitars you obviously can't afford.*


I have over $7000.00 sitting in my bank account with no credit card debt and often have $12,000.00-14,000.00. I think I can afford some pretty high priced guitars if I want to pay cash for them.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> I have over $7000.00 sitting in my bank account with no credit card debt and often have $12,000.00-14,000.00. I think I can afford some pretty high priced guitars if I want to pay cash for them.


yes, we know youre rich. everyone envies you, probably. Can you get back to the thread you started and inform us some more?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> I have over $7000.00 sitting in my bank account with no credit card debt and often have $12,000.00-14,000.00. I think I can afford some pretty high priced guitars if I want to pay cash for them.


You can afford one high priced guitar.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Steadfastly said:


> I have over $7000.00 sitting in my bank account with no credit card debt and often have $12,000.00-14,000.00. I think I can afford some pretty high priced guitars if I want to pay cash for them.


That's what the pickguard costs for a high priced guitar.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> I have over $7000.00 sitting in my bank account with no credit card debt and often have $12,000.00-14,000.00.


Sounds more like yer one step away from disaster.


----------



## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> I have over $7000.00 sitting in my bank account with no credit card debt and often have $12,000.00-14,000.00. I think I can afford some pretty high priced guitars if I want to pay cash for them.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Morkolo said:


>


For some reason, I am surprised at your immature response. I will know better than respond to any of your posts in the future.


----------



## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> I have over $7000.00 sitting in my bank account with no credit card debt and often have $12,000.00-14,000.00. I think I can afford some pretty high priced guitars if I want to pay cash for them.


The bible says that the love of money is the root of all evil - - better hurry up & spend it on some Gibson guitars before the invisible man in the sky finds out you’ve been greedily hoarding cash & doesn’t let you into imagination land. Advice, free. A proper Les Paul guitar, priceless. You’re welcome.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> I have over $7000.00 sitting in my bank account with no credit card debt and often have $12,000.00-14,000.00. I think I can afford some pretty high priced guitars if I want to pay cash for them.


----------



## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Agile is mail order only? If they were stocked in stores they'd cost more, because the store needs a profit to pay rent people etc.. If they cost more and were stocked in the same store as Epiphone or Squier, I'm guessing they wouldn't sell. They sell online and buyers like them because of the price and what you get for it.
Nothing wrong with Agile or any decently made budget guitar, no matter where its made. And yes a good player can make it sound as good as any other guitar costing 10x as much. But that doesn't mean Gibsons or Fenders are overpriced.
I drive to work in Ford along side a lot of BMWs Teslas and Mercedes...we all get there at the same time. And today, we're all sliding around after a foot of snow fell....


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

A rare picture of steadly in his vault has emerged.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> For some reason, I am surprised at your immature response. I will know better than respond to any of your posts in the future.


Congratulations, @Morkolo , you've gained entry into the least exclusive club on this site, The Deadly Steadly Ignore List. Celebrate, celebrate, dance to the music. 

Saul Goodman. Just leads to more confusion by him and amusing moments for the rest of us. Sit back and enjoy the slowest train crash I've ever seen.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

I’ve got one. Why don’t music stores sell guitar magazines ffs?


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

RBlakeney said:


> A rare picture of steadly in his vault has emerged.
> View attachment 279404


Ah, yes. 7000 loonies.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> I’ve got one. Why don’t music stores sell guitar magazines ffs?


I imagine theres no money in it. You can subscribe to magazines direct or pick them up at a book store. Theres a convenience store in my town that has a big magazine selection that has guitar mags. 
For a music store to dedicate space to magazines I doubt theres much profit.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> I have over $7000.00 sitting in my bank account with no credit card debt and often have $12,000.00-14,000.00. I think I can afford some pretty high priced guitars if I want to pay cash for them.





Steadfastly said:


> For some reason, I am surprised at your immature response. I will know better than respond to any of your posts in the future.


Wait....wut?


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Dorian2 said:


> Wait....wut?


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> I will know better than respond to any of your posts in the future.


How many are still on your list of folks you will respond?


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

1SweetRide said:


> I’ve got one. Why don’t music stores sell guitar magazines ffs?


And...Why don't music stores have Kemper modeling amps in a sound rooms along with the ability to play along to backing tracks? You could even BYOMP3s so you were familiar with the progression/chords. You could have a few modeled tones for all of the popular genres, like a Gary Moore or JP tone for LP style guitars and a SRV or Jimi tone for Strat style guitars in the Rock/Marshall genre.etc.Would seem to be a good way to sell/demo guitars as well as have something 'going on'. I rarely hear actual music in music stores anymore.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Rozz said:


> And...Why don't music stores have Kemper modeling amps in a sound rooms along with the ability to play along to backing tracks? You could even BYOMP3s so you were familiar with the progression/chords. You could have a few modeled tones for all of the popular genres, like a Gary Moore or JP tone for LP style guitars and a SRV or Jimi tone for Strat style guitars in the Rock/Marshall genre.etc.Would seem to be a good way to sell/demo guitars as well as have something 'going on'. I rarely hear actual music in music stores anymore.


If only you and I were running these stores. How much better they would be!


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> If only you and I were running these stores. How much better they would be!


lulz. you the best


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

jimsz said:


> How many are still on your list of folks you will respond?



@Rozz is.....


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Steadfastly said:


> If only you and I were running these stores. How much better they would be!


Absolutely. But at the risk of sounding immodest, I always felt the entire universe would be in better shape if I was running it; not just music stores. But that is probably just me...nah probably most people. ;-)


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Dorian2 said:


> @Rozz is.....


Thank you, thank you. I would like to thank my friends, family, colleagues and the Academy. But most of all I would like to thank Steadly Hatfield and Vadsy McCoy, without whose ongoing feud this would not have been possible.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Rozz said:


> Thank you, thank you. I would like to thank my friends, family, colleagues and the Academy. But most of all I would like to thank Steadly Hatfield and Vadsy McCoy, without whose ongoing feud this would not have been possible.


Oh, did Vadsy comment in this thread? I haven't seen any posts of his for years.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

That's too bad. He has had a change of heart and promotes you quite a bit lately.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)




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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

laristotle said:


> That's too bad. He has had a change of heart and promotes you quite a bit lately.


My heart stayed the same so I still faithfully remain his biggest fan. Dude needs a guy to keep is little fibs in check, the Lord will judge in the end but he sent me to help out for the time being. 

One day Steadly will stand before the resurrected Christ and be questioned on all of this guitar tomfoolery, he’ll probably try and ghost the guy but it will be revealed that I was sent to help Steadly stay on the righteous path and he ignored me. You could say I’m his guardian angel.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 279678


tell me about it...., it’s never hot single moms


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

vadsy said:


> My heart stayed the same so I still faithfully remain his biggest fan. Dude needs a guy to keep is little fibs in check, the Lord will judge in the end but he sent me to help out for the time being.
> 
> One day Steadly will stand before the resurrected Christ and be questioned on all of this guitar tomfoolery, he’ll probably try and ghost the guy but it will be revealed that I was sent to help Steadly stay on the righteous path and he ignored me. You could say I’m his guardian angel.


Hallelujah Steadley; I used to know but now I believe.


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