# 1950s Harmony hollow-body project (suggestions appreciated)



## silentbob17 (Jan 10, 2011)

*UPDATE Sept.1_2011*
The final chapter of this project, a video my band's first gig can be seen at *POST #22*

*UPDATE Aug.30_2011*
I posted a picture of the guitar in action at *POST #20*

*UPDATE July.31_2011*
Upgraded my bridge to fix tuning problems I was encountering. *Details can be found at post #19.*

*UPDATE March.12_2011*
The guitar work has been completed! *Final pics and details can be found at post #16.*

*UPDATE Feb.27_2011
*I fabricated the circuit that will integrate my tuner today (awaiting pickup).* Update can be found at post #15.

UPDATE Feb.26_2011
*I fabricated the adapter I need to integrate my tuner into the circuit.* Update can be found at post #14.

UPDATE Feb.24_2011*
I have reached a limit for images in this initial post. I will have to direct you to the post number that continues the progress. *This update can be found at post #11.*

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Note: I'm attempting to insert images directly into the post but the preview shows them as links... you may have to click them for now.
Edit: I found a checkbox for showing images in posts, under General Settings of my forum account. It was disabled by default. This post will be much easier to view with images displayed directly in the post.

Hey I'm brand new to the forum. My friend suggested going on here to get feedback on a restoration/modification project I'm working on.

Over the Holidays, I acquired my grandfather's old hollow-body. I had been interested in getting one, and this one was just sitting in my dad's basement gathering dust. So I'm breathing new life into it.

My intention is to use it in a hard rock project that I have going with a friend. I've been told by numerous guitar/music shop guys that it will be impossible due to feedback. But so far I've been able to manage it pretty easily without any modification to counter the feedback, and I'm interested in seeing if I can make it even easier to avoid. Someone brought up a technique where you partially stuff the inside with a foam or cloth. I may try this if I find I have problems in the future.

The feedback is not my primary concern at the moment though. Right now I want to replace the pickup. It's working "ok" but I'm experiencing an unusual and hard-to-describe "hissing" during play... I won't even try to make anyone understand this using words, I simply need to try out a different pickup to determine if the very old, stock, single-coil is causing this effect. So I'd love some suggestions on a brand/model to try. My friend suggested the Dimarzio PAF Pro as a well-rounded replacement. But if you know of something that would suit my unusual plan for this guitar, please let me know!

Another note on this project; all of the aforementioned music shop people have urged me to keep it all original/vintage. While I appreciate this, and appreciate their motivation for this, I am far more concerned with putting this guitar to good use rather than keeping it perfectly preserved. Since, as I mentioned, it was sitting around unused and slowly deteriorating until I got it.

So... here's how it was when I obtained it:









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I stripped and cleaned it (neck and body):









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The pots were grindy and not working correctly. Here is the old electronic assembly:









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So I fabricated a new assembly from scratch and made an RCA connection to the pickup to allow easy change to a new one (or back to the old one if needed):









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Reassembled everything, restrung, tightened tuning heads which were a little wiggly, and replaced the top portion of the bridge with a tunematic to allow proper intonation. As recommended by one of the guitar shop guys, I used small pieces of double-sided carpet tape under the floating bridge to keep it from shifting once I found the right spot. I also had a shop replace the nut which was chipped:









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I'm getting ready for a new pickup, and I found that the old pickup is not the standard size of current pickups. The plate will not fit a new one:









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So I fabricated a new blank plate that I will cut to fit the new pickup once I get it:









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I will continue to update this initial post with my progress.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

It's an interesting project....but....it's a 1950's Harmony. In fairly good condition. Keep all the old parts. Change what you can and play it. Not too sure about stuffing it with something....never tried that.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting all the pics of such a fantastic looking old guitar.

I would suggest saving all of the old parts...just to enable someone to put it back to "stock", if that is ever needed/wanted. 

Personally, I wouldn't put the double sided tape under the bridge, just in case it deteriorates the finish. The bridge will stay in place due to string pressure.

As for pickups, you could try a P90 size humbucker if it would fit into the plastic insert you made...which, judging by your thumb and the comparative width and length of the insert, should be fine. 

If that is your grandfather's guitar strap in the "before pic"..he is one cool guy !! (sorry...couldn't resist...no offence intended).

VERY NICE GUITAR...ENJOY !!

Cheers

PS Electraglide and I were posting at the same time...hence the duplication of the suggestion re: keeping the old parts.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Any chance one of the pickup builders we have on board could breath new life into that old pickup?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

I see you have a cloth wrapped cable connected to the guitar. Is that the original cable? And did you possibly get the original amp with the guitar also? If you did, could you post a pic of the whole set-up? Rebuilding the pickup is a good idea if you're going to use it but it sounds like you're replacing it, I'd leave it the way it is.
As far as the hiss goes, my Canora hollowbody








is about as close as I have to your Harmony. It hisses occasionally, sort of like an old tube radio that's tuned to the bottom end of the scale. Played thru my solid state amps the hiss is gone, played thru my tube amp there's a hiss if I'm too close to the amp. Probably a grounding problem. I get feedback from my hollow-bodied guitars if they're live and too close to each other. Within about two feet or so.


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## silentbob17 (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback so far! To address some of the comments:

I have been, and will be, keeping removed parts to enable a return to "stock" if needed.

Thanks for the pickup recommendation. The plate should be able to handle anything I get as long as I cut it right . I have a lot more plastic to make additional plates if needed.

Heh, that strap is mine.... it didn't have one when I got it.

It was recommended to me to have the pickup rewound/dipped in wax to restore it. But from what I understand, a humbucker may help reduce unwanted buzzing, which is exaggerated when the gain is turned up. Plus I can hold off on trying any full-blown work on an original component like that. Keep in mind that my understanding of pickups is quite limited so comments/corrections are appreciated here 

The fabric-wound patch cord is just something I bought from Long & McQuade. Just a personal preference over rubbery exteriors.

I picked up a used VOX valvetronics amp prior to getting this guitar. I'm hoping to get this combo sounding nice. Some noise and hissing could very well be in combination with, or directly caused by, the amp. I replaced the pre-amp tube yesterday (it has a pre-amp tube and a modular solid-state power-amp) but the sound is basically unchanged based on just a few minute test. I'm going through each tone/hiss-altering component one at a time. That's why I figure I can kill two-birds by trying a new pickup as the next step. It should change the tone at least a bit, and will likely reduce overall noise which may or may not solve the particular hiss I'm getting.

Here's a pic of the amp:









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Here are the power-amp emulator settings:









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Effect settings:









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And wattage setting, plus you can see the tube inside:









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It's pretty nifty for a budget amp with versatility. Gets a good starting tone from the tube, then you pick how you want it powered and how much wattage you want going to the speaker.

Not to clutter the thread with variables, but I noticed another characteristic of the buzzing that I don't fully understand. There is one tone knob which allows current to run through a capacitor and back to "ground" (basically shorted back to the pickup coil). When the knob is set for full tone (blocking the capacitor from the circuit) there is a substantial amount of buzzing, which is not there when I set the knob to maximum filtering (rolling off high frequencies by letting the capacitor into the circuit). Unfortunately, I didn't notice either way how it behaved before I swapped out the old circuit for the new one...

This capacitor effect is going to be the next thing I look into if it is not remedied by a new pickup, so if you know anything about what I'm describing (I know it's a bit complicated to explain ), please let me know.


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## silentbob17 (Jan 10, 2011)

So I've been looking around a little and I think I'm going to try that Dimarzio PAF Pro (DP151). Looks like I can one for $60 and it sounds very well-rounded. Here's the Dimarzio official description:

"The PAF Pro® was created when chops-intensive playing was first starting to happen, and high-gain amps and rack systems were getting popular. A pickup was needed that combined a lot of presence and cut with an open-sounding PAF® vibe. The transparency of its sound lets the PAF Pro® slice through heavy processing, where darker-sounding pickups get lost in the mud of the effects chain. Low notes have both snap and chunk, and there is a spike in the mid-range that gives the pickup a subtle aw vowel sound, like a wah-wah pedal stopped in the middle. Treble response is tweaked, so high notes stand out without getting brittle. The PAF Pro® makes an outstanding neck pickup in almost any guitar, and it’s an exceptional bridge pickup when high output isn’t required.

Recommended For: The PAF Pro® is a dependable choice right across the board - neck and bridge positions, solid-body, semi-hollow and hollow body guitars are equally effective uses. 

Tech Talk: This is a great building block pickup, because it's effective in many different situations. Try it in the neck position with a hotter bridge pickup - anything from a Norton® to a Super Distortion® will create a calibrated two-humbucker match. As a bridge pickup, it's really effective with single-coils, because it won't drown them out with too much power, and it's bright enough to blend in tone-wise."


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## silentbob17 (Jan 10, 2011)

After looking around some more, I've changed my mind about the new pickup. I going to go for the Seymour Duncan Jazz Humbucker SH-2n Nickel-plated (will look nice too). It's supposed to be perfect for neck position and suitable for all styles, not just jazz.

I'm also planning on wiring it with a coil-tap push/pull switch on the volume knob. I did some research on the wiring and I understand how it works (using my apprentice electrician knowledge).

I called Seymour Duncan customer service and asked about the correct values for the the pots and capacitor for this pickup, and learned that I used insufficiently rated parts in my initial rewire. They gave me the correct values and recommended a website called Guitar Parts Resource. Turns out they carry all the components I need for the new electronics circuit, the SH-2n pickup, AND some locking tuning machines (which I had been looking at buying locally). There is extra shipping to Canada, but the price comes to roughly the same amount I would spend locally and I can get everything in one shot.

Here's what I'm planning on ordering within a few days (money is supposed to be coming in). If you know a better place to get all this stuff, I'd love to hear it:









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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I don't want to seem like I'm raining on your parade, but I have tried many Seymour Duncan pickups through time. The jazz neck was the most disappointing. However, pickups are a very individual type of thing...you might find it to be the perfect pickup for you. 

Before you order, I would at least consider talking to J. S. Moore (Jon) who is a member of this forum and makes/winds his own pickups . His website is J S Moore Custom Guitar Pickups - Home. I have not heard of anyone that has been disappointed with his pickups. 

I have been doing some reading re: pickups for hollowbody guitars ( I just recently bought one) and some of the more popular pickups discussed are:

Gibson Classic '57s (Jon makes a version of these..I have a pair of them in my 335 copy....they are staying there)

Seymour Duncan....Seth Lover...I have a Seth Lover neck pickup. Very warm.

P90 styles in humbucker sizes ....Seymour Duncan's version are called Phat Cats. I have a set of these also. They were in the 335 before Jon's pickups went in...they are nice pickups.

Again, please consider talking to Jon and refer him to this thread. 

Cheers

Dave


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## silentbob17 (Jan 10, 2011)

greco said:


> I don't want to seem like I'm raining on your parade, but I have tried many Seymour Duncan pickups through time. The jazz neck was the most disappointing. However, pickups are a very individual type of thing...you might find it to be the perfect pickup for you.


Hey thanks a lot for the feedback. Could you describe what was particularly disappointing about the SH-2? I'd like to make a reasonably informed decision, without going too overboard... heh.

What do you think about my original choice of the Dimarzio PAF Pro (DP151)? My buddy thought the SH-2 might suit me better. Neither of us are too familiar with how the various brands differ, so we have to go off descriptions from the web.

Also, I'll see if I can PM Jon, thanks.


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## silentbob17 (Jan 10, 2011)

*UPDATE (Feb.24_2011):*

I received my Sperzel locking machine heads in the mail today! So I went ahead and installed them.

Here is the head after removing the old machines:









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The old machines were a non-standard size. They are smaller than the 3/8" Sperzels, so I had to do some delicate _drilling_ :O... everything went fine, no damage. Here are the Sperzel rings which now fit in the holes:









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Each head fully seated and is rock solid. Here is the finished head from the front:









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And the back:









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While I was at it, I drilled out the new pickup plate and test-fit it to the body. It looks ever so slightly crooked... I taped the original directly to it to get exactly the same holes; I think it's always been that way but the old plate is more opaque so you can't tell. Oh well, I can always make another plate if I want to get really picky about symmetry .

Here's the plate installed:









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And at an angle to show thickness and opacity:









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I also adjusted the bridge position and better seated the mounts for the tunematic piece.

I have commissioned Jon Moore to wire me a pickup, thanks to forum members recommendation! It should be done soon. It will be a nickel plated humbucker. I have created a wiring scheme that will allow me to do coil-splitting with the tone knob and output-selection to a tuner (to be attached to my strap) with the volume knob; both push/pull pots. In addition to the Sperzels, I received some of the electrical components I will need for this configuration. Should be pretty epic. More updates to come shortly!


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## John Watt (Aug 24, 2010)

Hey! Right away.... I was catching a tip from you, about getting a picture showing here.
I lost a little interest here, not being able to add pics, but I'll try again.

I'm surprised you used clear plastic as a replacement, maybe something around the house,
but a nice f-hole archtop should get the classy jazzy treatment. 
Some wood like that used for your bridge would be a nice blend,
even if you use 3 cents worth of sign vinyl that look like wood to cover it, looking real.

If you like experimenting with sound, having a guitar with a loose bridge can be fun.
Try something soft, like a business card or bristleboard between the bridge and body,
and see if it softens up the sound or gives you more harmonics around the neck.
I've done that with my custom ordered, left-handed Fender Stratocaster tremolo unit,
and I'm surprised I'm happier with that over all the new digital effects I use.

I agree with the DiMarzio pickup recommendation. They make different sizes too, so be careful.


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## silentbob17 (Jan 10, 2011)

John Watt said:


> Hey! Right away.... I was catching a tip from you, about getting a picture showing here.
> I lost a little interest here, not being able to add pics, but I'll try again.
> 
> I'm surprised you used clear plastic as a replacement, maybe something around the house,
> ...


Yeah the plastic looks more transparent in the pics because of the camera flash. I'll see how the finished product is and then decide if I want to make more cosmetic changes 

Interesting what you're saying about softening the bridge. Basically just put some padding under the floating part eh? I'll keep that in mind.

It's tacked onto the end of the last post, but I have a hand-wound pickup coming soon


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## silentbob17 (Jan 10, 2011)

*UPDATE Feb.26_2011*

Today I fabricated the adapter cord I need to integrate my tuner into the circuit.

Here is the splitter:









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Here's where I attached the tuner to my strap:









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Here's what it looks like first person view when wearing the guitar:









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And here's the whole configuration connected:









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I modified the tuner to accept input in the output jack because it is on the more convenient side to plug in the adapter. Also, I heard from Jon today that the pickup has been completed . With luck it will arrive this coming week.


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## silentbob17 (Jan 10, 2011)

*UPDATE Feb.27_2011*

Today I fabricated the circuitry in preparation for the pickup. This is a new configuration that incorporates the switching that integrates the tuner. Only a few solders will be needed when the pickup arrives.

The neatness of my soldering leaves something to be desired, but testing reveals all systems to be nominal:









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## silentbob17 (Jan 10, 2011)

*UPDATE March.12_2011*

Today is a glorious day. For today, the guitar is done.

Over the past few days I received the custom pickup in the mail, soldered it up to my prefab circuit, and finished up other tweaks... Bellow are some pics and further description.

Connected the pickup to the circuit. Despite the resulting rat's nest, it functions exactly as intended:









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Cut out the plate to fit the pickup and filed it as best as I could:









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Here is the pickup seated in the plate and the protective plastic removed... shiiiny:









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None of the metal on the guitar was grounded. I looked at how I could do it without modifying the body and decided to fabricate this simple grounding clip. A continuity test proves proper grounding on all metal from the ground on the jack right up to the tuning machines 









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With everything ready, I went to restring and tweaked several things.
-The luthier-repaired nut popped off and was shifty from side to side, so I just went for it and krazy-glued it down. Now it's not going anywhere.
-I reset the bridge position based on my previous intonating experience.
-I found the pickup was pivoting on the screws and tapping the plate, so I wrapped some weather-stripping around it and raised it up to wedge the soft foam. It's solid and not clicking against anything now. Also had to try two different sets of springs to get it at the right height.
-Tightened the tuning machines another partial turn.
-Wiped 'er down again.
Here's the chaos (don't worry, I never used those big linesman's pliers ):









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During the tinkering and tuning, I thought up a way to secure the bridge a little tighter. It normally just rests on the original wood piece and there is a little bit of play on the screw-like pegs (which are screwed directly into the wood). I acquired some nuts that match the peg's thread and simply tightened the tunematic down so that it doesn't shift on the wood:









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That's it! The intonation is slightly off on a few strings so I will just have to adjust the bridge again the next time I restring. But it's close enough and everything else I planned is done:









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The flash (throughout the whole series of pics) makes it look different than it does in person. Here is a non-flash pic that is more accurate:









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That's all she wrote!

I plan on making a video for YouTube demonstrating the guitar and my nifty tuning circuit. I will post it when it's ready.

Here's one last before/after pic (with flash). Enjoy:









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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Looks great. The pick-up plate is clear enough that the color of the guitar shows thru. Only things I'd do is find a couple of domed nuts for the bridge and snake the ground wire to the inside of the guitar. Partially for looks and less chance of it getting snagged on something like a guitar stand. Mind you that's just my personal preference.


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## silentbob17 (Jan 10, 2011)

Electraglide said:


> Looks great. The pick-up plate is clear enough that the color of the guitar shows thru. Only things I'd do is find a couple of domed nuts for the bridge and snake the ground wire to the inside of the guitar. Partially for looks and less chance of it getting snagged on something like a guitar stand. Mind you that's just my personal preference.


Hey thanks for the feedback.

I actually got acorn nuts first and grabbed these hex nuts as a backup. I found that the acorns dome stands too far off. These hexes are surprisingly smooth to the touch and are right at the height of where the strings cross, so it's perfect for palm-muting and such.

I got the ground nice and tight to the body (tighter than it looks in the pic) so hopefully it won't get snagged heheh. Going fully inside is just not doable right now, so this will have to do.


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## silentbob17 (Jan 10, 2011)

*UPDATE (July.31_2011):*

I've made yet another upgrade to my Harmony.

The tunematic bridge I used to replace the original solid wood bridge was causing tuning to be a headache. The reason for this, is that the points at which the strings cross the bridge are kind of like blades. These pointy edges catch easily on the winds of lower strings. So when I would go to tune a lower strings up, the entire bridge (being a floating bridge) would shift eeeever so slightly, and cause the strings immediately adjacent to it to change pitch by at least a few cents. The result was that it`s been somewhat of a game to get it in tune. Once tuned however, it would stay nicely.

So... I bought a bridge with freely rotating rollers for each string. Bellow are the pics, but first some more details. The weather stripping in the first pic keeps the strings from ringing past the bridge... I will eventually use something that is more pleasing to the eye, but for now, this functions very well. Either because of the way I had the previous bridge secured, or because of the way I tightened this one, the wooden piece that rests against the body of the guitar did not sit fully flush. The curve on the bottom side had warped slightly, so I sanded it by hand, checking for proper fit repeatedly, until it sat fully flush.

The result is that my tuning problems are completely resolved. Each string can be tuned without any interaction with other strings. Plus, I`ve reached an extremely high intonation accuracy. Each time I restring, I adjust the bridge a bit based on which strings could not be intonated 100% (even with the bridge adjusted as far as it could go). With this latest tweak, all strings are intonated to within 1-2 cents, except for the lowest string, which is tuned down a whole step, which likely makes it more finicky.

I just bought a sweet Traynor YCV40 all tube amp and my band is gearing up for out first gig ever . I promised a video showcasing this guitar in action... it may just be some songs at our gig .

Anyway, here are the pics:









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Here is a closer shot of the rollers on the low strings:









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And here is a shot on the higher strings. Notice how much difference there is on the G string to give proper intonation:









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## silentbob17 (Jan 10, 2011)

My band's first gig and the guitar's first performance-use was a success! I'll link a video (not the best quality) soon, but I thought I'd put up a little picture of the guitar in action 









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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Duudeeee where is the Brylcream in your hair? .. very nice work ...


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## silentbob17 (Jan 10, 2011)

So here is a video montage of my band's first gig, showcasing the use of the guitar , although the sound quality isn't great and since the bass player moves around in front of my amp, the tone sounds a bit washy. There are other videos (all HD) in the YouTube channel if you want to see more.

[video=youtube;fijpeaMuJF4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fijpeaMuJF4&amp;list=UUrEG5lVuD7Pv34OSVZTRigw&amp; feature=plcp[/video]


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