# Looking for advices



## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

Hi

I'm a new guitar player...really new, I started like 2 weeks ago. I borrowed an acoustic guitar from one of my friend but I would like to by my own electric guitar. The problem is that I really don't know what I should buy.

A lot of my friends told me to buy a cheap guitar to start and wait a while then buy a good one if I'm still playing, but I don't want to do that. I want to buy a cool guitar right now. I'll keep practicing with my friend's guitar for a while and if I keep playing guitar in a few months, I'll buy a good guitar.

Let say I want to pay around 1000$ for a guitar...what's the best guitar I can get for that price?

By the way, one of my friend has an Epiphone Slash Signature guitar that he could sell to me. Is that any good? How much should I offer him for that guitar?

He also has an amp for sale: a Marshall Valvstate 80
Is that any good? How much should I offer him for that?

Thanks!

Patrick

P.S.: Sorry for my poor english and sorry if I didn't post this in the right section!


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

hey gorrath.

for a thousand bucks i'd recommend a gently used fender usa strat. very versatile, good quality, good resale value if you don't stick with it. a pro guitar all the way. 

the epiphone slash model is fine quality, you'll have a great guitar for the money, used prices seem to be hard to find. i'd guess $600 ish. the valvestate should be fine too, it's a solid state model? not terribly expensive, few hundred. if he's offering you the package for under a grand that sounds about right to me.


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## adamthemute (Jun 18, 2007)

What kind of music do you usually play?


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

suttree said:


> hey gorrath.
> 
> for a thousand bucks i'd recommend a gently used fender usa strat. very versatile, good quality, good resale value if you don't stick with it. a pro guitar all the way.
> 
> the epiphone slash model is fine quality, you'll have a great guitar for the money, used prices seem to be hard to find. i'd guess $600 ish. the valvestate should be fine too, it's a solid state model? not terribly expensive, few hundred. if he's offering you the package for under a grand that sounds about right to me.


Thanks for the advice!

By the way, what's the big differences between a Strat and a Les Paul. My friend told me they don't have the same number of frets, they don't have the same weight, they don't sound the same but they're both very good. Is that true?


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

adamthemute said:


> What kind of music do you usually play?


Power Metal
Progressive Metal
Some other kind of metal

Actually, that's what I"m "trying" to play lol


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

That one is the biggest debate and discussion topic in the history of guitar playing. They are essentially two different instruments in terms of body style, construction, wieght, necks, pick-ups, tone etc etc.

That comes down to personal choice in every respect. You will need to try out both guitars and go with what you feel suits you and the style of music you like to play. No advice in the world can help you on that one. Read through some of the posts here, there are many on the different types of guitars. You will learn a lot just from those posts. But then you need to get out and try these guitars before buying. At least in terms of feel and how you like the necks.


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

Damn...I knew it wouldn't be that easy to choose a guitar! lol


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

Gorrath said:


> Damn...I knew it wouldn't be that easy to choose a guitar! lol


It'll get insanely easy once you get playing. 

The advice about getting a cheap guitar to start is actually a very good tip. See, you spend enough time on that you'll:

1 - get enough experience to know what you like about the guitar you're currently playing, as well as what you dislike... makes the thought process a lot smaller when you go to get your next guitar (oh, there will be A LOT more lol) 

2 - you'll gain playing experience which will help build the confidence to play infront of people in the store while trying out new guitars... this way you won't make the mistake of buying a guitar without playing it first

$1000 on a first guitar is well... ridiculous IMO. You don't know if you're going to stick with it (you can say you WILL... everyone does... but it's not a hobby for everyone).

As for the Valvestate... it's an OK beginner amp, the tones are a bit harsh to the ear though (much like the MG series). You'll realize this once you play other amps. The latest releases in the Valvestate series (AVTX) doesn't have the harshness. 

I say go for like an Epiphone Les Paul Special and some sort of 15 watt amp and SEE if it's something you want to stick with. This way you're not out too much cash if you don't, and if you do you gain the experience as I stated above. 

Atleast to me, that's the logical solution... 

Difference between the Strat and the Les Paul... oh dear God... lol. You could virtually go on for days... but in the end, there's no 'rules' set in stone. They're 2 completely different beasts with 2 completely different tones.

The typical consensus is that Les Pauls have 'fatter' tones where Strats have thinner... but it's not always the case. You can get Strats with humbuckers these days which will help produce fatter tones. The whole thing depends on the entire rig you're playing through as well as the construction and electronics you have in the instrument. 

Lol... this hobby can get complicated. Don't even worry about this shit yet, the most important thing is to get playing! 

You said you want to play metal, buying a guitar with humbuckers is a good start.


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2007)

Gorrath said:


> Damn...I knew it wouldn't be that easy to choose a guitar! lol


If it was easy it wouldn't be fun. 

Enjoy playing as many guitars as you can get your hands on. At the $1k price point there's lots of choice. Especially if you look at the used market. For metal you may want to try some of the fixed bridge Schecters. There's a PRS SE specifically aimed at metal players, the Paul Allendar (sp?) model I think it was. That'd be a solid little guitar.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

here's what you do:

go play a ton of guitars at every store in a 2 hour radius. yes, a 2 hour radius - you want some variety and some bargaining room!

write a list of which guitars you did and didnt like. i suggest these models to try out:
schecter C-1 blackjack
C-1 classic
epiphone les paul standard
epiphone SG standard
fender standard (MIM) strat
fender standard telecaster
jay turser strat copy
yamaha pacifica 112

try these amps:
marshall MG15
peavey rage 158 (i'd get one again myself)
roland cube 30
behringer GMX
tech 21 trademark 30 if you can find one

see what you do and dont like. i wouldnt spend mre than maybe $300 on the guitar and another $200-$300 on the amp. how can you achieve this, you ask? you buy used. a used les paul standard goes for around $350 i think, depending on age and condition.

also bring an EXPERIENCED friend with you (ie someone who knows what action is, what a bad fret job looks like, etc) who can check over the guitar to make sure it doesnt have any major issues. if a nice guitar has a paint chip or something, that's a point you can argue to get a lower price (if you're going new).

are you planning on taking lessons? its a great idea!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I suggest you don't take any advice on brands to buy.

I look at the lists people have suggested and instantly know that most of the guitar models suggested would not make my list.

It's a matter of taste.

I do agree that $1000. will buy you a hell of a guitar.


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## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

First off, I have to disagree with the thought that your friends gear (while it would make a nice starter package) is worth your $1000. The max I'd pay for a used Epiphone Les Paul of any type (except the elitist series) is $600. The max for that amp is $200. Buying from a friend, I'd say $600 for the entire package is fair.

now for general buying advice.

Used vs. New

Used - You will get a better price used and will get more for your money. And if you back out of playing guitar it will be way easier to get the same money back selling your gear that put in for buying it. But there is the fear of buying someone elses problems and having no recourse.

New - you get a warranty and start building a relationship with your local guitar store, but down the road when you sell your gear (whether its because you stop playing or get better and want to buy better gear) there is a good chance you will only get about half of what you paid in the first place.

My advice : If you have a friend who knows how to check for issues on a guitar and amp, buy used. You will get way more for your money and way more back if you ever sell. But if you don't have someone you can trust, you are better off going to a store that will want to help you make a smart decision and will set up your new guitar for you and provide you with a warranty should any problems occur.

Amp questions
There are many : Tube vs. Solid State? Digital modelling yes vs. no? but the big question is big vs. small.

If you are only going to be learning at home, any amp up to 15w will be fine. If you want to buy something that you can play with a drummer, you will need to get a bigger amp. I prefer the sound of tube amps and you will probably buy one down the line, but you may be better off with a solid state amp to start. Much less to maintain and figure out and they are usually lighter and more manageable. A digital modelling amp like the ones from Line 6 is also good for a beginner. You get the chance to hear what many different amps sound like and it will help you realize what kind of amp you want after you get good and want to upgrade.

Strat vs. Les Paul
Most metal players will use a guitar with humbuckers (like a Les Paul) but there are no hard and fast rules and you can get strats with humbuckers easily these days. You need to play both and see which one speaks to you. I find when most people starting out do well when they look at the guitarists whose tone they like and see what they play. In the long run, you will figure out what speaks most to you, but when you're learning its always nice to be able to mimic the tones of your heros. Check out www.guitargeek.com to see who plays what.

My biggest advice will be to spend the least you can to get in and get something that works for you. Save as much of that money as you can for when you develop a better idea of what works for you and what doesn't.


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## djem (Sep 14, 2006)

Gorrath said:


> Power Metal
> Progressive Metal
> Some other kind of metal
> 
> Actually, that's what I"m "trying" to play lol



Gorrath,

For your first guitar and based on your musical taste, I would suggest getting a second hand Ibanez RG series (or similar) guitar. Look in shops, Craiglist and even eBay if it's local. The reason why I recommend Ibanez/similar type of guitars is because they are easy guitars to play and will get you in the 'metal zone' pretty quick without having to modify the guitar and the guitar will be a good one to learn on - very fast necks.

You can probably get one for around $300-$400.

djem


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## Guest (Aug 28, 2007)

LowWatt said:


> Used - You will get a better price used and will get more for your money. And if you back out of playing guitar it will be way easier to get the same money back selling your gear that put in for buying it. But there is the fear of buying someone elses problems and having no recourse.
> 
> New - you get a warranty and start building a relationship with your local guitar store, but down the road when you sell your gear (whether its because you stop playing or get better and want to buy better gear) there is a good chance you will only get about half of what you paid in the first place.


All good points, but don't forget: you can buy used from a store and combine the benefits of both your statements. You get a better price on a higher quality instrument. You get to start a relationship with a local shop (which I'd say is probably only important if it's a smaller store with a loyal staff). And you can get a warranty, or at least a good return-for-credit policy. And shops won't sell you used gear that's got problems (at least not the reputable shops).


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## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

iaresee said:


> All good points, but don't forget: you can buy used from a store and combine the benefits of both your statements. You get a better price on a higher quality instrument. You get to start a relationship with a local shop (which I'd say is probably only important if it's a smaller store with a loyal staff). And you can get a warranty, or at least a good return-for-credit policy. And shops won't sell you used gear that's got problems (at least not the reputable shops).


Very true. Also when I was starting out I felt more comfortable trying out the old guitars that already had a few dings in the USED store over the shiny new ones that I was afraid of damaging in the NEW store.


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## Coustfan'01 (Sep 27, 2006)

djem said:


> Gorrath,
> 
> For your first guitar and based on your musical taste, I would suggest getting a second hand Ibanez RG series (or similar) guitar. Look in shops, Craiglist and even eBay if it's local. The reason why I recommend Ibanez/similar type of guitars is because they are easy guitars to play and will get you in the 'metal zone' pretty quick without having to modify the guitar and the guitar will be a good one to learn on - very fast necks.
> 
> ...


+1 to that
And I'd recommend to get the best guitar possible with the money you have . If you buy a cheap guitar , and the frets buzz , the action is high , the tuners won't keep it in tune , etc... then it's 100% sure you'll give up . 

Ibanez , jackson , shecter , esp , bc rich , washburn all make great guitars in your price range , especialy used . The things you should be looking for are
24 frets if possible , at least 22
Humbuckers are a must
Hardtail would be easier to setup yourself than a floyd rose , and you can drop tuning easily
Highest frets accessibility ( really not the best on a les paul , and most bolt-on neck can be a bit of a problem too)
Traditional body style is usually a lot more comfortable when you play sitting down . 

As for the amp , you can probably get a better amp if you buy something small , or a bigger but cheaper amp... It depends if you'Re playing on you own or with a band . If possible , a built in tuner is really practical , and you'll get the habit of always tuning before playing(which is a good thing )

If you can find something like that used 
http://www.stevesmusic.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_20&products_id=1377

That would probably suit the kind of music you want to play .


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

WOW!

I wasn't expecting that much answers! Seems like a busy forum 

I still have a few questions:

-What the hell is a humbucker? lol

-Some of you told me to get a 15W amp...sounds like something really weak! lol
I don't think I'll ever play in a band so I understand I don't need something really big...but 15W seems really low. Does the 80 in the Valvstate 80 of my friend means 80W ?? Is amp is not that big and seems ok...so I can't imagine buying something 5 times less powerful! But then, maybe the 80 doesn't mean that at all! lol


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

Budda said:


> are you planning on taking lessons? its a great idea!


I wasn't planning on taking lessons because but that could be a good idea. I'll check if there's a guitar school or something not too far from here.


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

Milkman said:


> I suggest you don't take any advice on brands to buy.
> 
> I look at the lists people have suggested and instantly know that most of the guitar models suggested would not make my list.
> 
> ...


Ok...maybe I shoulk ask if there is anything I should not buy?
Is there any brands that are really not good? Or some brands that are way too expensive for the quality they have, etc?


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## Coustfan'01 (Sep 27, 2006)

Yes , the 80 is 80 watts , but 15 watt will still be "too loud" for an appartment . If you plan to play with a band , it's not enough , but if you're playing alone , even a 5watt amp would be enough .Also , it take 10 times the wattage to have twice the perceived volume , so 15 watt will be more than half as loud as 80 . 

A humbucker is a pickup with two coils . It has more output , and is a lot less noisy when you're using a lot of distortion .


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

LowWatt said:


> First off, I have to disagree with the thought that your friends gear (while it would make a nice starter package) is worth your $1000. The max I'd pay for a used Epiphone Les Paul of any type (except the elitist series) is $600. The max for that amp is $200. Buying from a friend, I'd say $600 for the entire package is fair.


Thanks for the tip but I wasn't planning on paying 1000$ for my friend's gear. The 1000$ would be for a new guitar.
But since a lot of people don't think it's a good idea to spend that much for a beginner, I'll probably keep playing with the borrowed guitar until I'm good enough to go try some guitars in stores. Maybe I'll buy my friend's Epiphone if the price is good, but I'll borrow it first to see if I like it!



LowWatt said:


> Amp questions
> There are many : Tube vs. Solid State? Digital modelling yes vs. no? but the big question is big vs. small.
> 
> If you are only going to be learning at home, any amp up to 15w will be fine. If you want to buy something that you can play with a drummer, you will need to get a bigger amp. I prefer the sound of tube amps and you will probably buy one down the line, but you may be better off with a solid state amp to start. Much less to maintain and figure out and they are usually lighter and more manageable. A digital modelling amp like the ones from Line 6 is also good for a beginner. You get the chance to hear what many different amps sound like and it will help you realize what kind of amp you want after you get good and want to upgrade.


Could you explain me what is the difference exactly between Tube and Solid State? What does Digital modeling do?


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

Coustfan'01 said:


> Yes , the 80 is 80 watts , but 15 watt will still be "too loud" for an appartment . If you plan to play with a band , it's not enough , but if you're playing alone , even a 5watt amp would be enough .Also , it take 10 times the wattage to have twice the perceived volume , so 15 watt will be more than half as loud as 80 .
> 
> A humbucker is a pickup with two coils . It has more output , and is a lot less noisy when you're using a lot of distortion .


About the amp...then my friend is weird! He wants to sell is 80 watts because he's planning on buying some big mesa boogie that costs over 2000$ but he doesn't play in a band either lol.
He just plays at home lol

About the humbucker...if I buy a used guitar, is there a way to see if it has one easily?

Thanks!


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Consider this instead of lessons..........
http://www.metalmethod.com/


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## djem (Sep 14, 2006)

Gorrath said:


> About the amp...then my friend is weird! He wants to sell is 80 watts because he's planning on buying some big mesa boogie that costs over 2000$ but he doesn't play in a band either lol.
> He just plays at home lol
> 
> About the humbucker...if I buy a used guitar, is there a way to see if it has one easily?
> ...


Note for Gorrath: pickup=pup

Pups on a Les Paul type are humbucker.

Pups on a Stratocaster are single coil (skinnier).

Of course there are exceptions (P-90 pups loaded into a Les Paul and bridge position humbuckers pups in a Strat type guitar), but this is what you generally see.

Generally speaking, a humbucker is two single coil pups wired together such that the 60 Hz hum is self-cancelling. That's why they are twice as wide as a single coil pup.

An Ibanez RG type guitar will have a humbucker pup in the bridge position and two single coils (neck & middle position).


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

well. you're noticing by now that a lot of people have a lot of opinions on this stuff, which is why there's so many options available to begin with. 

i would NOT recommend *most* ibanez rg guitars to begin with, as they generally have a "floyd rose" style bridge, which allows you to use the whammy (tremolo) bar very aggressively without the guitar going out of tune. however, i have seen a lot of beginning players stop playing out of sheer frustration with their floyds. unless you have a good working knowledge of guitar in general, the floyd system is very hard to get into proper playing tune. it's also mostly a lead guitar tool, and you won't be playing any leads for at least a few months yet  i would say a fixed bridge, or a strat style "easy" bridge is the way to go for a beginner. your mileage may vary, but i am speaking from many years' experience in a large music store. unless you are very sure you want a floyd, steer clear. 

the advice that you go with a humbucker is sound though, for a mainly metal player. a humbucker is a bigger pickup, the size of two single coils, either covered in metal, or it will have the two singles next to each other uncovered (sometimes one black one white, which is called "zebra", a lot of 80's metal players used these ones). the slash model your friend owns will have humbucker pickups. they work well in a high gain setting, as they don't hum (hence the term humbucking = bucks hum) nearly as much as a single coil. look at a picture of say, stevie ray vaughan or jimi hendrix's guitar to see what single coils look like. 

as to price, the slash is equivalent to an elitist model, and they seem relatively rare, hence the higher dollar value. your friend wants a mesa boogie rectifier amp because that's what he's seen his heroes playing on stage. they are a great sounding metal amp, but they are excessively loud, to the point that when used in a club they make most bands very hard to mix, as the amplifiers stomp all over everything else, volume-wise... tell your friend to consider at least the combo version of that amp, it's cheaper, and only painfully loud, as opposed to brutally loud.

if you like modern metal, i'd say you'd do well to check out the esp/ltd line of guitars. i believe steve's music has them on display. they're very well suited for metal, and will cost you anywhere from $300 to well over a thousand. the emg brand pickups in them sound great for a chug rhythm. 

as to a used guitar. there's nothing wrong with saving some good money by buying used, but i would say you really want someone along who knows guitars well. most reputable stores will check a guitar out before buying it, and make sure it's good enough to play, but they charge a premium for their stock because of it. most pawnshop guitars are pure garbage, but you can find a great deal in one if you KNOW what you're doing. 

as to spending $1000 on a beginner guitar, you certainly don't need to spend more than say, $300 to get a good quality starter instrument. but i'm of the opinion that if you have the money to spend, and want to, why the heck not? the most important thing is that you love the guitar you buy. the more you love it, the more you'll play it, and then any money spent is well invested, to me. good luck.


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## Roidster (Aug 5, 2007)

if your into the metal thing i would suggest Ibanez RG,like maybe a RG321MH
has dual humbuckers(Pick ups),24 frets,no tremolo,great little starter metal guitar


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

Gorrath said:


> Could you explain me what is the difference exactly between Tube and Solid State? What does Digital modeling do?


Tubes vs solid state vs digital modelling is a very, very complicated arguement and it all comes down to preference. 

Tube amps are generally louder to the ear but don't register louder on those fancy devices (LOL forget the name)... I'd say _most_ guitarists are into tube amps over the rest available. A common reason why someone wouldn't prefer tube amps is the maintenance and the fact they need (well, not _need_) to be cranked to get a good, dirty, tone. My friends 5 watt mini JSX is just as loud as a little 15 watt solid state amp I had sitting around. 

Solid state, no tubes, sound similar at all volume levels. Some lack warmth (not all)... good for clean tones (*cough* Jazz Chorus *cough*) and decent for high gain stuff like metal (*cough* Randall *cough*). 

Digital modelling... companies basically try to model all popular amps and effects (mainly tube amps, some do solid state though). Some find them to be too digital sounding, but not all them are. Technology is advancing and I'm sure they'll perfect it eventually.



> About the humbucker...if I buy a used guitar, is there a way to see if it has one easily?


Humbucker's look like this:

http://www.gibson.com/press/gear/PICKUPS/Humbucker_db.jpg

And sometimes have a case on it, like this:

http://cachepe.zzounds.com/media/qu...umbucker-13d91628d58b81ad65c07df0b21aa31a.jpg

I agree about not buying a guitar with a floyd-style tremolo for your first guitar... it'll be a nightmare unless you want to learn how to set it up or pay someone to do it everytime you break a string.


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

THANKS a lot everyone...that's a LOT of advices! lol

Before reading all this and quoting some of your messages, I have another question.
There seems to have a lot of threads here about Strat and Les Paul, but I was wondering if my friend's main guitar was any good since I didn't see any post about that brand yet.
He has a Paul Reid Smith (or something that sounds like this). He paid over 2000$ for it. How good is this compared to a Strat or a Les Paul?

Thanks again


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

suttree said:


> well. you're noticing by now that a lot of people have a lot of opinions on this stuff, which is why there's so many options available to begin with.
> 
> i would NOT recommend *most* ibanez rg guitars to begin with, as they generally have a "floyd rose" style bridge, which allows you to use the whammy (tremolo) bar very aggressively without the guitar going out of tune. however, i have seen a lot of beginning players stop playing out of sheer frustration with their floyds. unless you have a good working knowledge of guitar in general, the floyd system is very hard to get into proper playing tune. it's also mostly a lead guitar tool, and you won't be playing any leads for at least a few months yet  i would say a fixed bridge, or a strat style "easy" bridge is the way to go for a beginner. your mileage may vary, but i am speaking from many years' experience in a large music store. unless you are very sure you want a floyd, steer clear.


Well...actually I don't want an Ibanez. I don't like the name of that brand and that's the brand of guitar all my friends bought when they started playing guitar...it souds a lot like a beginner guitar lol
I know it's all poor reasons not to buy some kind of guitar but I want something that I will like 



suttree said:


> the advice that you go with a humbucker is sound though, for a mainly metal player. a humbucker is a bigger pickup, the size of two single coils, either covered in metal, or it will have the two singles next to each other uncovered (sometimes one black one white, which is called "zebra", a lot of 80's metal players used these ones). the slash model your friend owns will have humbucker pickups. they work well in a high gain setting, as they don't hum (hence the term humbucking = bucks hum) nearly as much as a single coil. look at a picture of say, stevie ray vaughan or jimi hendrix's guitar to see what single coils look like.


Cool...if the slash guitar has a humbucker, I may buy his guitar then if he makes me a good price. But there is one thing I don't like about this guitar...it feels heavy compared to his other guitar. Maybe it's because the other one is worth a lot and the slash one weighs like a normal guitar hehe



suttree said:


> as to price, the slash is equivalent to an elitist model, and they seem relatively rare, hence the higher dollar value. your friend wants a mesa boogie rectifier amp because that's what he's seen his heroes playing on stage. they are a great sounding metal amp, but they are excessively loud, to the point that when used in a club they make most bands very hard to mix, as the amplifiers stomp all over everything else, volume-wise... tell your friend to consider at least the combo version of that amp, it's cheaper, and only painfully loud, as opposed to brutally loud.


LOL
Well...my friend likes to buy things that cost a lot! I'm not sure I'll be able to make him buy something else because he just changed his pik-ups because his old ones didn't sound well on the mesa boogie amp he wants! lol




suttree said:


> if you like modern metal, i'd say you'd do well to check out the esp/ltd line of guitars. i believe steve's music has them on display. they're very well suited for metal, and will cost you anywhere from $300 to well over a thousand. the emg brand pickups in them sound great for a chug rhythm.


Sounds cool...I'll check for those



suttree said:


> as to a used guitar. there's nothing wrong with saving some good money by buying used, but i would say you really want someone along who knows guitars well. most reputable stores will check a guitar out before buying it, and make sure it's good enough to play, but they charge a premium for their stock because of it. most pawnshop guitars are pure garbage, but you can find a great deal in one if you KNOW what you're doing.


That's EXACTLY why I would prefer to buy a new one if I'm buying one in a store!


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

Gorrath said:


> THANKS a lot everyone...that's a LOT of advices! lol
> 
> Before reading all this and quoting some of your messages, I have another question.
> There seems to have a lot of threads here about Strat and Les Paul, but I was wondering if my friend's main guitar was any good since I didn't see any post about that brand yet.
> ...


PRS = FANTASTIC guitars... right up there or even better then Gibsons in terms of quality IMO.

PS: Ibanez isn't a 'beginner guitar'... they just make a bunch of affordable models... they also make higher end models which are nothing shy of amazing. Look at the Jem for an example. Over $4000 for some models (20th anniversary Vai model is like 6 grand isn't it?)... RG550(XX)... any Prestige I've played has been great.


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

prs are a very high end guitar, for sure. even their offshore "se" models are killer for the money. 

ibanez makes some very very nice guitars, too. pat metheny, john scofield, joe satriani, steve vai... there's some pretty heavy hitters playing ibanez... some of their more traditional budget models are incredible for the money, too. dont want anyone to think i'm slagging ibanez, i just don't think that most beginners should start with a floyd rose equipped guitar. 

the slash model weighs more because it's a les paul, haha. they tend to be a heavier guitar due to the fairly large piece of mahogany involved (or sapele on most budget guitars). this big piece o' wood also helps give it a great punchy tone and gobs of sustain. 

trust your tastes, even if you're a new player. follow your heart to the right guitar, and you'll do fine. all of us are giving advice we wish we'd had when we started out, so we wouldn't have wasted so much time and money on guitars that weren't right for us in the end, but then, that's a big part of the process, lol


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

ibanez's prices are also a little bit higher then what most people feel the guitars are worth - i wouldnt pay over $1500 for an ibanez unless it was a custom shop or something.

bud, ya need to go play some guitars and see what you like!!! buy something that is comfortable to you, sounds good to you, and makes you want to keep playing! if it makes YOU happy, then you bought the right one!


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## Sol Player (Aug 11, 2007)

Hi,

I think I will not help you a lot but my advise is to get a cheap guitar first so you can get started and save some money to the next guitar, you can start learning the guitar while in this time you'll probably decide what is the perfect guitar for you.

I play the violin and when I started I did the same thing, believe me it worked.

Also I am doing the same thing now with the guitar,(I'm new to the guitar things), I bought a yamaha 112j and a vox da5 ( they didnt cost me a lot) and now things are getting more clear about what do I need exactley for the next guitar .

Get a cheap guitar and a good amp.

you may check this thread out ! it could be useful. 
http://www.guitarscanada.com/Board/showthread.php?t=7474

:wave:
Cheers.


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

Really interesting thread! Thanks!

How much was the Godin that you wanted but didn't buy?


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## Sol Player (Aug 11, 2007)

It was around the 400$


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

I took a look at some websites and here are my conclusions this far to help me choose:

Fender
Good: I like how they look...actually, I like the Strats, but I don't really like the Teles...
Bad: Like some of you mentioned in their messages, most of them don't have humbuckers.

Les Paul
Good: Most of them have humbuckers
Bad: I don't think they look as good as the Fenders

ESP
Good: Some of them looks really nice
They seem to have more frets
They have humbuckers
They seem to be made for metal guitar player!
Bad: Didn't hear much about this brand 


What's the price range of the ESP guitars?


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

There's no 'price range' on ANY decent brand of guitars. The all typically range from cheap to extremely high end. It depends on the model you want... 

Most expensive ESP I've seen is a $13,000 Kirk Hammett limited edition one...


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

an ESP will run you over $1k. the ltd models will run you around $400-$1000.

you can get a fat strat, which is a strat with a bucker in the bridge..


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

Another question...What's the advantage of buying a guitar without a tremolo?


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

generally speaking, a fixed bridge or hard tail guitar will have better tone, and stay in tune more solidly. on the downside, you can't go wah ah aha ha 

ltd model range from $300 ish upwards of $1500, with most good solid, set neck/emg hz models being in the $500-700 range, and the guitars with emg active pickups (before you ask, this means battery powered, they have a great sound when very distorted, and they are used by a large number of metal players, including james hetfield and kirk hammet) mostly being $700-1000 with some premium models over that. the esp models basically start at oh, $1300 and go up from there, they are a very nice guitar though (as they will have to be at that price range). although the ltd is a "budget" line, i can tell you from experience that the quality is very high, the fretwork is very clean, they're a great guitar.


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

After some searches, I found a guitar that looks to have everything I would like to have on a guitar and she looks nice too.

Ltd H-500 with EMG by ESP

700$ 

I'll to go try it when I'll be good enough to play in front of many peoples in a store! lol


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

great guitar, you'll do fine. 

as someone who spent over a decade working in a major music store, you're already better than most of em, trust me


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## Telenator (Aug 9, 2007)

You'll love the EMG pickups too. Top notch IMO.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

pssst: you dont have to be good at guitar just to try one in a store..


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Budda said:


> pssst: you dont have to be good at guitar just to try one in a store..


You are 100 % right with that. But isn't always the way that every time you go to the store to try a guitar, somebody comes in and plays at the level of Clapton or Hendrix or (your choice)....brutal !!

Dave


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

Someone knows the cost of those amps?
(I've looked on the web but can't find any damn prices except for the MG15CDR for 150$ at Steve's music)

MG30DFX
MG50DFX

Thanks


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

I just spoke with my friend.

He told me he could sell me this kit for 550-600$

-Epiphone Slash Signature guitar (with a case)
-Marshall Valvestate 80 amp
-Boss Metalzone pedal
-Zoom 707 pedal

How does it sounds?


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

that's a good deal right there, assuming it's all in good working order. the mt2 metalzon'e worth $80, the 707 is worth at least $50, the amp is say $150-200...


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

suttree said:


> that's a good deal right there, assuming it's all in good working order. the mt2 metalzon'e worth $80, the 707 is worth at least $50, the amp is say $150-200...


The Guit is almost like a new, it works really well.

The amp is fine except for one thing, sometimes the sound lower a bit by itself.
I don't think it's a major problem?

The metalzone pedal is fine.

The 707 has a little problem...there is a connection problem or something. When I plug the wire in it, I have to move the plug in and out a bit to have the pedal working right. I don't have the amp yet, I'm using headphones for the moment and if I don't place the wire the right way, I get the sound in only one side of my headphones. It's annoying, but it's not that bad since I can get it to work well within 30 seconds. It must be something that could be repaired...I guess.


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

I know I ask a lot of questions but here's another one:

My friend just changed his pickups on his PRS CE24 for some EMG 81/85 I think.
He could give me the CE24 pickups to put them in the Epiphone Slash Signature.
Would it be worth the trouble???
Would it be compatible?? (there's not the same number of sound buttons on each guitar).

Thanks 

Patrick


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Gorrath said:


> He could give me the CE24 pickups to put them in the Epiphone Slash Signature.Would it be worth the trouble???
> 
> Patrick


Yes, but I'm assuming the Epi Slash doesn't have Gibson Pickups like the Epi Joe Perry Boneyard model.


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

Robert1950 said:


> Yes, but I'm assuming the Epi Slash doesn't have Gibson Pickups like the Epi Joe Perry Boneyard model.


Actually, I don't have a clue what the pickups are on this guitar!
Anyone knows the specifications of those pickups?


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## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

*Crazy Advice*

1.Take your money in cash. 
2.Go to the biggest city you can get to and find the biggest music store in town, preferably with lots of glass and flashing lights and life size pictures of rock stars.
3.Look for a salesperson who looks bored, preferably one wearing lots of jewellery and expensive clothes.
4.tell the salesperson you want a guitar and amp
5.Take what he/she gives you, it will have to be the best, right?

Bonus advice: ignore the above and have a great time finding that first "right" guitar/amp combo.


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

hey gorrath. here's what i think you should do. get the epiphone (assuming you like it), get the cu24 pickups (these will be a MAJOR upgrade to the epi pickups), take the mt2 and walk away from the other stuff. the 707's fault is most likely minor, but these aren't really worth fixing, and the marshall's problem in a tube amp would be worth fixing, but in a solid state amp i wouldn't bother. take the guitar to a good tech and have the pickups swapped and for a general setup *very important: ask the guitar tech to also change out your electronics for high quality stuff. this will run you something like $200 all done (there's going to be about $40 in parts included in there, might be less, as low as say $150 if the guitar is in really good shape). whatever money you have left over, buy a small practice amp with a decent sound, maybe a tech 21 or a peavey, and use the mt2with the amp's clean channel to get a great distortion. you will have a guitar that is easily good enough to get you up on any stage (which means it should be more than enough guitar for the next 5 or 6 years at least), and after you get to the point where you want an american high end guitar, with those pickups, you'll still have a great backup guitar (i play an american deluxe tele, my backup is a cheap-o ibanez with prs dragon pickups). you can focus on getting a more powerful amp in another year or two when you're at the point where you're playing at the "i wanna join a band" level. that's my 50 cents worth. now go do what makes *you* happy


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

suttree said:


> hey gorrath. here's what i think you should do. get the epiphone (assuming you like it), get the cu24 pickups (these will be a MAJOR upgrade to the epi pickups), take the mt2 and walk away from the other stuff.


Yeah, I'll get the PRS pickups anyway, he'll give them to me.

By the way...it doesn't matter that there is not the same number of sounds and tone buttons?
There is some wires with the PRS pickups with two switches or whatever it's called on it. If I change those, I could change only 2 of the 4 switchs on my guitar.

About walking away from the other stuff, I don't think I could do that...he's kinda selling this as a package to get some money to buy his freakin Mesa Boogie amp.



suttree said:


> the 707's fault is most likely minor, but these aren't really worth fixing,


Well, I'm getting it for the same price so I'll take it anyway...right now, I'm only using it to tune my guitar and to use my headphones until I get the amp. Then I'll probably only use the MT2.



suttree said:


> and the marshall's problem in a tube amp would be worth fixing, but in a solid state amp i wouldn't bother.


Hummm...the problem is not that bad...we played for like 1h30 and it happened only twice I think. It's annoying but the sound is still great.

For the price he's selling me the amp, I would ot be able to buy anything better than a MG15 or something like this.

I took a look at some amp today when I went to Archambault store to buy some stuff.
a MG15 is 180$ +tx
a MG30 is 260$ +tx
a MG50 is 500$ +tx (why would someone buy this one lol)
a MG100 is 560$ +tx 

So would it be better for me to get a MG15 instead of the valvestate 80? It looks really small and there is a lot less options on it from what I've seen of both amps...




suttree said:


> take the guitar to a good tech and have the pickups swapped and for a general setup *very important: ask the guitar tech to also change out your electronics for high quality stuff. this will run you something like $200 all done (there's going to be about $40 in parts included in there, might be less, as low as say $150 if the guitar is in really good shape).


You really think it would be that cheap?
When my friend went to the Italmelodie to change his pick ups, it costs him nearly 600$...only 280$ of this total was for the pickups...the rest was for a clean up, changing his strings and for the time spent working on his guitar.


THANKS for all the advices!!


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

hey gorrath. 

the pickups are worth a good $100 used anyways.

they have 3 wires coming out of them so that they can be wired to split the coils (making only half of the pickup work, which will give you a single coil sound - and hum). you can ask the tech to put in a "push/pull" pot on the volume of your guitar, you will get a bigger range of sounds this way. not hardly necessary, especially for metal, and you can always go back and have this done pretty cheaply later. they will work with a two control system no problem, i promise (that's what i'm running on one of my guitars right now)

for the money, if the volume thing on the amp doesn't bother you, fine, but i would be leery, this could be a sign that the amp will totally crap out on you (could be something minor). you're not going to keep the amp forever anyways.. your call, but i would ask your friend to have it checked out first, or i would want to buy it VERY cheaply. 

the 707, no big deal, it's what i would call a piece of throwaway gear aynways, but for the small price, it'll teach you what effects you do and don't want. if you're feeling adventurous, it's most likely a bent input jack, or a cracked solder joint you can fix yourself... 

$320 worth of work to his guitar is a *whole lot*, for that money you can get a refret done! ask what their shop rate is, and if they time their work (you don't need to pay the guy to answer the phone and talk to people). shop rates generally range from $60-$75 an hour for a quality tech. as to materials, a new nut blank is say $15, pots are generally $15 each for top of the line, switches too. a rewire of a very standard setup like a les paul shouldn't take more than an hour, including the pickup swap, and another hour or so to level and dress, and a third hour for cleanup and a new nut and an intonation and such. if your friend was doing very odd stuff... hold the phone i think i know partly what cost so much.. he put in EMG's, that means you need a battery holder (parts and routing labour), as well as a preamp circuit board (more money, if it wasn't included in the price of the pickups, at $280 for the pair new, i think it would be, but you never know). what you'd be doing to the epiphone would be a lot less involved, therefor cheaper. simple solution, go by the shop and ask them what they think you'd be looking at dollar wise.

cheers.


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

suttree said:


> hey gorrath.
> 
> the pickups are worth a good $100 used anyways.


Nice...that can't be bad hehe

I just took a look on the PRS to find out exactly what are those pickups

"HFS treble and Vintage bass pickups"



suttree said:


> they have 3 wires coming out of them so that they can be wired to split the coils (making only half of the pickup work, which will give you a single coil sound - and hum). you can ask the tech to put in a "push/pull" pot on the volume of your guitar, you will get a bigger range of sounds this way. not hardly necessary, especially for metal, and you can always go back and have this done pretty cheaply later. they will work with a two control system no problem, i promise (that's what i'm running on one of my guitars right now)


Hummm...a two control system...there is 2 sound control and 2 tone control on my future Epi. Is that what's called a two control system (2 of each) or a two control system is only with 2 sound/tone control total??

I think I already have some kind of three way function for the pickups. There's a switch that let me choose if I want to use either one of the pickups or both.



suttree said:


> for the money, if the volume thing on the amp doesn't bother you, fine, but i would be leery, this could be a sign that the amp will totally crap out on you (could be something minor). you're not going to keep the amp forever anyways.. your call, but i would ask your friend to have it checked out first, or i would want to buy it VERY cheaply.


Well...at first it did bother me, but there is something cool about this problem. His amp has had this problem for years. If it was recent, I would have thought 
it could be some little problem that could get worst with time but since the problem is the same since a few years, it may stay like this...well I hope it will.

By the way...would the sound of a new amp like a new MG15 sounds be better than the sound of the valvestate? I'm trying to decide if I want his amp or a new one but if the little problem with his amp doesn't bother me, I would prefer to get his big amp instead of a small new one for the same price.



suttree said:


> the 707, no big deal, it's what i would call a piece of throwaway gear aynways, but for the small price, it'll teach you what effects you do and don't want. if you're feeling adventurous, it's most likely a bent input jack, or a cracked solder joint you can fix yourself...


lol
well...I don't know shit about pedals but I already don,t really like this pedal anyway but it still useful to tune my guitar lol

Do you have some suggestions for some pedals that could be good for me?
My friend just bought a Metal Core to replace the Metal Zone he will sell me.
Is it really better?



suttree said:


> $320 worth of work to his guitar is a *whole lot*, for that money you can get a refret done! ask what their shop rate is, and if they time their work (you don't need to pay the guy to answer the phone and talk to people). shop rates generally range from $60-$75 an hour for a quality tech. as to materials, a new nut blank is say $15, pots are generally $15 each for top of the line, switches too. a rewire of a very standard setup like a les paul shouldn't take more than an hour, including the pickup swap, and another hour or so to level and dress, and a third hour for cleanup and a new nut and an intonation and such. if your friend was doing very odd stuff... hold the phone i think i know partly what cost so much.. he put in EMG's, that means you need a battery holder (parts and routing labour), as well as a preamp circuit board (more money, if it wasn't included in the price of the pickups, at $280 for the pair new, i think it would be, but you never know). what you'd be doing to the epiphone would be a lot less involved, therefor cheaper. simple solution, go by the shop and ask them what they think you'd be looking at dollar wise.


I spoke about that with my friend today and he told me something else they did on his guitar. They've installed a booster on his guitar. I don't really know what this is but that could explain why it costed him so much.


Thanks again for all those advices!!

Sorry for asking so many questions...but I like to be sure about what I buy lol

Also sorry for my poor english!


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I have a Marshall MG15CD. I out grew it in six months. Marshall doesn't makes lousy SS amps - Good Tube, buat bad SS. It sucks. You'd be better with a Vox Valvetronix or a Roland Cube 60 if you want to go the SS route.


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

I wrote an e-mail to the tech department of my local music store to know how much it would cost to change my pickups. They just answered me and it's a lot cheaper than I thought!! 30$ +tx for each pickup
So it would only cost me 60$ +tx to get the PRS pickups in my Epi!!

Great!!!


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

Gorrath said:


> I wrote an e-mail to the tech department of my local music store to know how much it would cost to change my pickups. They just answered me and it's a lot cheaper than I thought!! 30$ +tx for each pickup
> SO it would only cost me 60$ +tx to get the PRS pickups in my Epi!!
> 
> Great!!!



that's going to be for a straight swap, no change on the other electronics. i'd pay the extra maybe $50 to get the pots and wiring changed as well. it's like you have a porsche (the new pickups), and you put cheap, chinese made tires on steel rims on it (the existing wiring). i'd call it a worthwhile investment.


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

suttree said:


> that's going to be for a straight swap, no change on the other electronics. i'd pay the extra maybe $50 to get the pots and wiring changed as well. it's like you have a porsche (the new pickups), and you put cheap, chinese made tires on steel rims on it (the existing wiring). i'd call it a worthwhile investment.


Ok, will do.

But what exactly is the wiring? When I saw the PRS pickups of my friend, there was some wires on them connecting to some switches(that must be what you call pots...I don't know much about guitar parts name lol). What else is in my guitar that is electronic?

Is it possible that my friends had all his electronics changed(or part of it, not sure how many wires and switches were there) and they gave him back his old pickups as well as the wiring and pots of his PRS?


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

Gorrath said:


> Ok, will do.
> 
> But what exactly is the wiring? When I saw the PRS pickups of my friend, there was some wires on them connecting to some switches(that must be what you call pots...I don't know much about guitar parts name lol). What else is in my guitar that is electronic?
> 
> Is it possible that my friends had all his electronics changed(or part of it, not sure how many wires and switches were there) and they gave him back his old pickups as well as the wiring and pots of his PRS?



hey gorrath. the electronics are broken down like this: pickups are the magnets and the coils around them that change the guitar string's vibration into an electric signal. pots (short for potentiometers) are electronic devices that sit under the knobs (that turn) and work to change the electronic signal, either by diverting some of the high frequency (treble) signal (this is your tone knob) or by reducing the amount of signal (your volume knob) that passes to the output jack. the switch actually decides which of the pickups will be sent to the output jack (front, rear or both), which has the same effect on the tone as picking towards the bridge (brightens the tone) or the neck (warmer tone). 

your friend's new setup is different, it is an "active" system. the traditional passive system you have on your guitar allows for cutting (turning down) the different frequencies only. you can't boost them unless you add an active (powered - usually by a battery) equalizer into the guitar's electronics. for a big metal sound most people "scoop" the mids, which means they turn down the mids, and further boost the bass and treble. you can easily acheive this same effect outside of the guitar with an equalizer (like the one on the mt2 pedal), but the EMG active pickups are a favourite among metal players (not among most others though, as they are kind of a "one trick pony", not great for playing blues or straight rock. the PRS pickups he is geting rid of are a "les paul" type pickup, great for a wide range of sounds. i wouldn't go down the road of EMGs until you're well certain that's the sound you want. it is certain that the tech would have changed all the wiring for his new pickups, as the active system will use different values (types) of pots. if he's got all the wiring and pots still attached, that's great news for you, it saves you more money, they're totally re-usable and since they're out of a prs, they'll be high quality. 

cheers.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Check out the PRS SE line. The quality of these guitars are excellent. I already have 3 of them and would like to have the new semi-hollow or the SE one which is their take on the LP Jr.


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## Gorrath (Aug 28, 2007)

suttree said:


> hey gorrath. the electronics are broken down like this: pickups are the magnets and the coils around them that change the guitar string's vibration into an electric signal. pots (short for potentiometers) are electronic devices that sit under the knobs (that turn) and work to change the electronic signal, either by diverting some of the high frequency (treble) signal (this is your tone knob) or by reducing the amount of signal (your volume knob) that passes to the output jack.


Another question about pots...why do I have 2 volume knobs and 2 tone knobs?? I have a total of 4 knobs, so 4 pots.



suttree said:


> it is certain that the tech would have changed all the wiring for his new pickups, as the active system will use different values (types) of pots. if he's got all the wiring and pots still attached, that's great news for you, it saves you more money, they're totally re-usable and since they're out of a prs, they'll be high quality.


I even have his PRS plug...I don't know if it has a technical name...I'm talking about the hole to plus the guit in the amp.

I just wrote another e-mail to the tech guy to know how much it will cost to install all those parts


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

Gorrath said:


> Another question about pots...why do I have 2 volume knobs and 2 tone knobs?? I have a total of 4 knobs, so 4 pots


one volume and tone for the front pickup, one set for the rear. you can set the pickups at different volumes for lead/rhythm or just because you want to.

yes, do replace all of it with the better stuff, although the input jack might not fit.


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