# what's the deal with Behringer?



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

kind of a neat vid. I usually don't last more than a minute into most of these without shutting it off or skipping around, had this one on from start to finish. Neat bit of history on Behringer included, they huge


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

I haven't done much research on them but from what I've heard, they can be low quality. Maybe I'm listening to the wrong people?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

SaucyJack said:


> I haven't done much research on them but from what I've heard, they can be low quality. Maybe I'm listening to the wrong people?


terribly low quality, kleenex boxes are built better


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Yeah, no.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

I watched that video a couple of months ago when I started down the "pedal hole" and my takeaway from it was that if you didn't need the best of the best (build quality being the biggest knock) because you were likely playing for yourself in your basement and not lugging (and consequently dropping) your pedalboard and stomping on them night after night then they'd do the trick at a fraction of the cost. Also, if you aren't sure what you're looking for in terms of "your" sound and want to experiment with various effects then they seem like the perfect jumping off point and if you figure out that you don't want a chorus pedal then you're only out a 12-pack of your favourite beer...not the end of the world, IMO.

The sounds he made sounded fine to me but I get that some players want the right names on their pedals and that's cool. I don't have any Behringer pedals but if I saw one that interested me in the used bin at L&M then I'd probably take it home with me to just see what all the fuss was about.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I've had a couple and even though they never made it to official pedalboard status I didn't mind goofing with them to try new sounds


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I purchased a Behringer mixer last weekend. It works and more than meets my needs. That said it is no where near as well built as the Yorkville I was renting. I can’t hear any difference from the Yorkville but I am by no means an expert sound tech. It was 1/3 the price of the Yorkville so something had to give.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

My own experience with Behringer is limited to the handful of pedals I have from them that I bought new: a Bassballs clone, a Phase 90 clone, a DIM-C clone, and an AC-2 clone (I think that's all of them).

1) Nothing at all wrong with plastic enclosures. Heck, even MXR used them for a while. As long as they're not too big, they're more than sturdy enough. And they sure do make a pedalboard lighter.

2) Everything wrong with their mechanism for releasing the foot treadle in order to replace the battery. It's both an annoying and flimsy setup, However, if you don't anticipate ever changing a battery, it's not an issue. Those who followed Behringer's entry into the clone market will recall that their initial enclosures looked a lot like Boss. Too much in fact. I don't know if the release mechanism of the foot treadle was redesigned, along with the rounder corners of the enclosure, in an effort to avoid a trademark infringement lawsuit from Boss.

3) Some products can be dead ringers for abandoned "legacy" pedals from other companies. Their CC300 (no longer made) was a dead ringer for the Boss DC-2, and in my experience every bit as good sounding as the original. It even allowed combinations of the 4 buttons, which even the newer Waza version of the DC-2 does not permit.

4) Not all clones are exact replicas. Behringer made clone versions of several of the Line 6 Tonecore pedals - The Verbzilla (RV600), Liqui-Flange (FL600), Echo Park (EM600), Otto Filter (FM600), and Roto Machine (RM600). They also made clones of the Boss VB-2 vibrato, and SP-1 Spectrum, and many others. Sonicly, they nailed it, but my experience was that the switching systems the originals used were not replicated by Behringer. For instance, Line 6 used two staggered-height momentary switches, such that lighter non-click presses would serve to accomplish tap tempo or speed switching, and a harder click would do bypass/engage. Behringer's approach was less user/gig- friendly, sometimes relying on holding down the foot treadle for some period to engage the secondary function.

5) I've seen some questionable chip choices. The Behringer AC-2 copy - the AM300 - uses TL064 quad op-amps where the original used 5218 dual op-amps. In contrast to the low-noise 5218s, TL064s are low current, but hissy. It`s good that they tried to be conscientious about conserving batteries, but using TL074 chips would have resulted in a noticeably quieter pedal, without any appreciable change in production cost. And when you`re making a pedal deliberately intended to increase treble, to mimic finger gliss in an acoustic, more hiss is not what you want.

6) Initially, where Behringer was using surface-mount components, compared to thru-hole parts in the originals, many of those originals also started using surface mount. Thru-hole is always better for modding. But if you're just looking for plug-and-play, there should be no difference in audio quality. I've been able to do some mods to my Phase 90 clone and Bassballs clone. Wasn't dead easy, but they could be done.

Love 'em or hate 'em, you have to tip your hat to Behringer for bringing back a number of cherished chips back from the dead, including the chips that so many flangers, chorus, and delay pedals depend on, and chips that form the heart of the most cherished synths from the '80s.


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## Boogieman (Apr 6, 2009)

mhammer said:


> Love 'em or hate 'em, you have to tip your hat to Behringer for bringing back a number of cherished chips back from the dead, including the chips that so many flangers, chorus, and delay pedals depend on, and chips that form the heart of the most cherished synths from the '80s.


Now, if Behringer would resurrect the Recticon SAD1024 chip.......


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

I want a Behringer x32. That fizz was sweet. Entertaining dude.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

sambonee said:


> I want a Behringer x32. That fizz was sweet. Entertaining dude.


X32 for the jam room? Bedroom?
Fizz or fuzz?


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Our band Behringer mixer & PA sound great to me, and they’ve been there a while with no issues. Never did own one of their pedals, tho I was curious for a while.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

keto said:


> Our band Behringer mixer & PA sound great to me, and they’ve been there a while with no issues. Never did own one of their pedals, tho I was curious for a while.


we actually had a X32 go down on us, they didn’t bother fixing it and just gave us a new one


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

vadsy said:


> X32 for the jam room? Bedroom?
> Fizz or fuzz?


Fuzz. Alwaysfuzz. 
The x32 just to be cool. My Zoom R16 still rocks hard. 

Cheers


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

Elliot Smith!! Amazing album.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

mhammer said:


> 2) Everything wrong with their mechanism for releasing the foot treadle in order to replace the battery. It's both an annoying and flimsy setup, However, if you don't anticipate ever changing a battery, it's not an issue. Those who followed Behringer's entry into the clone market will recall that their initial enclosures looked a lot like Boss. Too much in fact. I* don't know if the release mechanism of the foot treadle was redesigned, along with the rounder corners of the enclosure, in an effort to avoid a trademark infringement lawsuit from Boss.*


Those new to the internet, or the world in general, would have us believe that it is only Gibson that does that. Weird, eh?


I've used Behringer stuff. I take it for what it is - inexpensive and potentially fragile electronics. I've used their pedals and some of their rack mount gear (speaker management, EQs, etc). I wouldn't use it in 'mission critical' applications, unless I had a spare or two. Sonically, they work just fine IME.

As for the quality? I wouldn't put them as any worse than the rest of the cheap Chinese crap you can buy on Amazon. I've personally had more failures with brands like Ammon, Donner and Mooer than I have with Behringer. But ......... the internet do like to get up in people's shit and provide the bandwagon to jump on, so there's that.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Someone on the DIYstompbox forum posted a link to a YT tour through the Behringer campus in China some years back. And I emphasize campus, rather than production facility. We're talking an area larger than any GM, Bombardier, or Stelco plant you've ever seen, with many buildings, including employee residences. Fascinating tour.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Didn’t Behringer buy T.C. Electronics & Midas?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Here's pt. 1 of the tour.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

bzrkrage said:


> Didn’t Behringer buy T.C. Electronics & Midas?


yes, I believe so


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I don't know about Midas, but yes to TC. That's why many of the plastic-box Behringer pedals have largely disappeared. Many turned into folded aluminum-box TC pedals. I'm not sure what role the acquisition of TC played in the general disappearance of Tore Mogenson from the landscape. I miss him and his toques.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

mhammer said:


> I don't know about Midas,


music group (Behringer) bought them 10 years ago


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

mhammer said:


> Tore Mogensen


Tore now works at Universal Audio (UA) doing the amazing work on the OX Box


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Part 2:


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

bzrkrage said:


> Tore now works at Universal Audio (UA) doing the amazing work on the OX Box


Good to hear. Nice guy.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

@mhammer & @greco , thanks for this. Interesting. Be interested to see how it is 12 years on.......

Also love the Aussie commentary....”dodgy”.......bahahahahaha!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

bzrkrage said:


> @mhammer & @greco , thanks for this. Interesting. Be interested to see how it is 12 years on.......
> 
> Also love the Aussie commentary....”dodgy”.......bahahahahaha!


@mhammer deserves all the credit...I just happened to see that there was a "Part 2" and posted it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I'll pass on credit to the fellow who posted it on the stompbox forum years back. My only credit is _remembering_ it existed.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

mhammer said:


> I'll pass on credit to the fellow who posted it on the stompbox forum years back. * My only credit is remembering it existed.*


But _us_ retired guys have to consider that as somewhat of a victory. I can see in the not too distant future buying one of these.










If not for certain queues, like TV shows or rush hour traffic, I can hardly tell my Tuesdays from my Saturdays.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

I see a similarity between Hyundai & Behringer

both started out making cheap stuff that was widely panned for being crap. But over time have upped their game

since Behringer bought Midas & TC Electronics, I think they have been making better stuff; They also now have some great engineers on staff

the Deepmind, for example, is a great instrument. As is the Model D clone.


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## Guest (Jul 26, 2019)

I make it a point to keep Behringer out of my chain.

Meh-ringer.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I remember when my buddy RG Keen was working on the ill-fated Workhorse guitar amps for Visual Sound (now Truetone), he sent me a note from China, while visiting the facility where they were getting them made. He noted that, when it come to stuffing and assembling boards - the electronics aspect of the amps - achieving quality was easily done. The weak link, as he conveyed it, was that the guys in the factory had ittle idea about what good guitar tone was supposed to be, such that when it came to calibration and setup, he found that wanting.

Now, that was some 15 years ago. And whether it's K-Pop or J-Pop, the influx of western-style sound into China, if only through Hong Kong, has been substantial. So I imagine the "ears" in China for setting up gear are probably better now than they were 15 years ago.

I'm not going to wave the flag high for Behringer. They're just one company. They're not like Wal-Mart, swallowing up smaller pedal-makers (TC has expanded it's product line since acquisition, unlike the mom-and-pop stores within a kilometer of any Wal-Mart). They have piggy-backed on others' IP/R&D, but have stayed true to the more-features-for-the-consumer-dollar ethic. Certainly synth enthusiasts are very pleased that Behringer have entered that game. Not only have they released inexpensive clones of some classic '80s favorites that have long been beyond the financial reach of many consumers (not to mention hard to get, even if you had the money), but they have also been behind the re-release of classic chips from that period that allowed other manufacturers to bring desirable synths and effects back from the dead. Chances are pretty good that if you bought a recent analog flanger, chorus, or delay from some boutique house, you owe that to Behringer, who backed the reissue of delay chips that Panasonic ended production of in the early '90s.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I'd take a Behringer piece over a Mooer piece any day of the week. At least Behringer pays tribute to the original, if not outright buying the company that made it. Mooer just blatantly rips the originals off, unapologetically.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Every Behringer pedal I've tried was noisy, tracked poorly and had other issues. Granted that's not every one of their pedals, but enough to sour me on them--and enough that I am wary of TC Electronics' bargain one after Behrinegr bought them--as they are apparently Behringer pedals just repackaged & apparently tweaked.


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