# Advice for a Setup?



## KingCore (Apr 28, 2010)

Hey guys, i just joined a new band and were are going to start playing small gigs, house parties etc. Im looking for a solid amp setup( with any footboards which would be required). In my opinion i was thinking of a half stack? We play metal, screamo. I need a good amp which would give me everything i need to play shows, jam with, and all that. Right now im using a Line 6 spider III and i've been using it forever, i love the amp, and maybe something similar would work. 

Let me know any ideas in which you have. Im not looking for anything which would cost me thousands of dollars, as were just working our way up, and this will be my first half-stack amp (if you guys reccomend halfstack) that ill have. 

Thanks.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

all you need for metal/screamo in barebones form is an amp and a footswitch. sure delay and chorus is fun, but not entirely necessary (I don't own any pedals except an overdrive to boost my amp with, and I play just about anything).

What's wrong with your spider III?

A halfstack is entirely not necessary - I could find 112 combos that would put some halfies to shame.


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## KingCore (Apr 28, 2010)

Ok , any ideas on types of amps i should use rather it'd be a halfstack or combo


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## mechanic (Apr 1, 2010)

edit some more


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## KingCore (Apr 28, 2010)

Under 1000 , mid - high hundreds.


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## mspizziri (Nov 16, 2009)

I think for house parties and small gigs a half stack will be overkill, plus a pain to lug around
I would go for a head and 2x12 cab, but with the budget you laid out you could probably get a really nice 1x12 combo that would fit the bill

I'm not really up on what a lot of the heavier bands are playing but I know you could probably find an older Mesa or Peavey tube combo that is compact but still really loud


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Mesa Boogie Mark III combo. Game, set, match. Angle it 45 degrees and enjoy the sound spread. $800 should get you one. Borrow (emphasis on borrow) a cab if you need more air moved.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Ok..sorry, but AVOID a Boogie Mark III...you'll go ape shit setting up this amp everytime you want to play with it. a DECENT one will run you 1000 to 1200$..a well maintained one, 1300$ and over and you'll probaly want new tubes. a 1x12 for metal live...no chance. 

under the 1000$ you'll be hard press to find a decent stack. you might find a decent head but that's it. A very good head for cheap could be a JCM 900 SLX. lots of gain..and can be found between 500 and 600$. so that could leave you with a bit more to spend to get the 4x12 standard 1960A cab wich run around 500 to 650$ depending on who's selling it and the state of the cab.

Trust me..once you'll start playing a real amp..your SPider III will take the road to nowhere. i had one of those when i started to play again about 4 or 5 years ago...and my god was i glad to get a real tube amp after a few months. i actually GAVE that thing away..hehe

There are deals to be found...simply be patient.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I'd grab the mark III, and borrow a cab if you need it, as I said. Alain here hates mesa, don't mind him 

Another option is a peavey 5150II/6505+ and a behringer Ultra Stack 412 w/ Jensen speakers, all used.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Budda said:


> I'd grab the mark III, and borrow a cab if you need it, as I said. Alain here hates mesa, don't mind him
> 
> Another option is a peavey 5150II/6505+ and a behringer Ultra Stack 412 w/ Jensen speakers, all used.


I don't hate mesa....and you clearly never used a Mk III or you would'nt recommend this amp has a first tube amp.


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## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

I've heard good things about the Bugera combos...built by Behringer....two or three channel models for clean to metal, 50 to 100 watts, two 12s.....usually about $750.00


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## KingCore (Apr 28, 2010)

Ok, so i've been looking into the MK III, but what about some good combo amps? Im assuming combo amps could still play a small venue easy right?


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

KingCore said:


> Ok, so i've been looking into the MK III, but what about some good combo amps? Im assuming combo amps could still play a small venue easy right?


if you are doing metal..u need a minimum of 2x12 otherwise you don't have enought prescense ot bottom. without a PA system...nothing under 40w tube amp. AGAIN..stay away from the MKIII unless you're willing to fork out some major cash to buy a restored one basucaly.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Clearly some people don't like the mark III, for me its a great amp and not to hard to find a great tone.
I think a head and cab are also great options, a 2-12 is plenty loud but if its not enough for bigger gigs you can add another or a 4-12.

See what long and mcquade has available for rent, for $20 buck a weekend you can really get a good feel for what you wan't.
Also keep in mind that you don't need huge watts, not much difference between 120 and 60 in a house or decent venue.

Best advice would be to learn how to use it and set up the knobs, tones always halfway and keep the prescence and resonece off till your happ with what you got. You can add after to see if it sounds better.
Also pick up a TS-7 or something like that, it makes the amp that much better.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

don't confuse me saying the MK III is not what he,s looking for...and the MKIII been a shitty amp. it's just not something a new player should get, it's not an easy amp to use..and it's quite a specific tone. i owned 2 actually...and they are on average over 20 year old amp..and they are quite expensive to maintain.



Bevo said:


> Clearly some people don't like the mark III, for me its a great amp and not to hard to find a great tone.
> I think a head and cab are also great options, a 2-12 is plenty loud but if its not enough for bigger gigs you can add another or a 4-12.
> 
> See what long and mcquade has available for rent, for $20 buck a weekend you can really get a good feel for what you wan't.
> ...


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## okcomputer (Jun 19, 2006)

al3d said:


> if you are doing metal..u need a minimum of 2x12 otherwise you don't have enought prescense ot bottom. without a PA system...nothing under 40w tube amp. AGAIN..stay away from the MKIII unless you're willing to fork out some major cash to buy a restored one basucaly.


Not sure I agree. I don't see how a 2x12 gives you any more presence or bottom? It might give you more volume, but presence and bottom comes from the speaker itself, the size, and the cabinet.

I see plenty of metal guys playing 30- and 50-watt 1x12 combos. And they sound great.

I agreed with the above post - go to L&M and try some amps out. Rent a few if you need to. There are so many amps that can do metal, especially if you are using stompboxes for overdrive/distortion.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

pro-metal tip: if you are aiming for conventional metal tones, do NOT use a distortion pedal as your primary source of tone; instead, use an overdrive or distortion pedal to boost/tailor your amp's drive channel sound to your liking.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

okcomputer said:


> Not sure I agree. I don't see how a 2x12 gives you any more presence or bottom? It might give you more volume, but presence and bottom comes from the speaker itself, the size, and the cabinet.


how can u not agree when you are agreeing with me basicaly..LOL...and please..show me a metal band playing with 1x12 combos!...been into metal for 30 years..and never see that ONCE. and ofcourse a 2x12 has more prescence and bottom then a 1x12 i mean come one..LOL why do you think 99% of metal players are haft Stack and full stack freaks!...


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

i play metal/ hardcore or whatever you want to call it personally i wouldnt go for a 1x12 or a 2x12 thats just me. I used to play a 2x12. I switched over to a half stack just over a year ago and i love it so much more then the 2x12. I know this is on the top of your budget but i found a jcm 900 for 750 and a marshall cab for 300 (most likly there cheaper one) both on kijiji in toronto. Keep surfing there and im sure you will find something that suits you.

Marshall JCM900 4500 Head 50 Watt Mullard RI EL34s - Toronto Musical Instruments For Sale - Kijiji Toronto

MUST SELL , Marshall 4x12 slant cab - Toronto Musical Instruments For Sale - Kijiji Toronto

also a half stack looks more bad ass ha


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

it's like they say..once you go haft stack...you can't go back.... i only use marshall haft stack now..and looking into a Diamon Nitrox as well..




jfk911 said:


> i play metal/ hardcore or whatever you want to call it personally i wouldnt go for a 1x12 or a 2x12 thats just me. I used to play a 2x12. I switched over to a half stack just over a year ago and i love it so much more then the 2x12. I know this is on the top of your budget but i found a jcm 900 for 750 and a marshall cab for 300 (most likly there cheaper one) both on kijiji in toronto. Keep surfing there and im sure you will find something that suits you.
> 
> Marshall JCM900 4500 Head 50 Watt Mullard RI EL34s - Toronto Musical Instruments For Sale - Kijiji Toronto
> 
> ...


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## Andy (Sep 23, 2007)

Sounds like a Peavey 6505 combo is exactly what you need. I personally love the 212 -- it's heavy, but it's closed back, so tons of bottom end, and it's US made. If you can't find an excellent heavy tone out of it, the amp is not the problem.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

used peavey 5150 212 + casters, may or may not be same price or a little less - same amp 

edit: funny story:

jamming with a former roommate. his rig: gibson SG standard into marshall MG100DFX. My rig: gibson LP studio-TSovChaos (TS808 plus some)-peavey JSX-XXX 412 w/ WGS british leads.

We put his amp angled up against a wall, and guess who was sitting fine in the room, while my master was on half?


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Don't forget he is also looking to do smaller places, a half stack may be to much.

Still like the head and a couple cabs, you can bring what you need and leave the rest behind.

Search the net and you will find many massive bands that use a smaller rig miked behind the stacks for main sound. Hell some don't even bring amps anymore, DI from a modller.
Not every stack you see on stage is connected or even has speakers.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

that's an old Myth. now a days. you can use a Haft stack in a small room without any problem. we do it all the time. Far behind are the days of the PLEXI where it had to be run at 10 to sound good. 



Bevo said:


> Don't forget he is also looking to do smaller places, a half stack may be to much.
> 
> Still like the head and a couple cabs, you can bring what you need and leave the rest behind.
> 
> ...


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## kruts (Apr 30, 2006)

Keep it simple. Buy a used 5150 head for $500, buy a marshall cabinet used for $400 and call it done. This is a great setup for what you need.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

al3d said:


> that's an old Myth. now a days. you can use a Haft stack in a small room without any problem. we do it all the time. Far behind are the days of the PLEXI where it had to be run at 10 to sound good.


Actually, you're half right. You can run a halfstack in a small room without problems, but tube amp design still more or less dictates that if the amp isn't running at least half-way to full tilt, you're not getting the most out of it. My mesa would do a small venue fine, but it'd sound a lot nicer with the output at 6


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Budda said:


> Actually, you're half right. You can run a halfstack in a small room without problems, but tube amp design still more or less dictates that if the amp isn't running at least half-way to full tilt, you're not getting the most out of it. My mesa would do a small venue fine, but it'd sound a lot nicer with the output at 6


With all the attenuators available these days, that helps a lot too. But it also depends on your amp. With a channel-switcher, you can get decent-ish drive tones at low volumes, but with something like my single-channel JTM45, I really need to use an attenuator to get good gain tones at a reasonable volume in a small space.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Budda said:


> Actually, you're half right. You can run a halfstack in a small room without problems, but tube amp design still more or less dictates that if the amp isn't running at least half-way to full tilt, you're not getting the most out of it. My mesa would do a small venue fine, but it'd sound a lot nicer with the output at 6


lol..i love how you think everyone is stupid and does'nt know how tube amps are designed..hehe..come one justin... and what's wrong with playing at 6?...we do that at band practice..no worris here


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

Welcome KingCore,

In general, you will find that people who cut up the opinion of others consistently are usually the people whose opinion you should trust the least. Keep this in mind when reading the comments in this thread.

A 1x12 combo will do just fine for what you need. Admittedly, I'm not a fan of Mesa products, but the Mark III is something you may want to consider. There was one available on Kijiji as recently as a couple of weeks ago for $800.

If you can find one, you may also want to consider something like a Mesa .50 Calibre. They are cheaper and easier to dial in the tone you're looking for.

If you wanna go cheaper, the Peavey 5150 2x12 combo would be a good/affordable bet. They can often be had for $550-600 on the used market.

As an aside, the individual cutting up the Mark III was ranting and raving about how great of an amp it was...when he was trying to sell his about a year or so ago. In fact, I recall he called it the 'holy grail'. Well, he actually spelled it wrong, but I think we've all gotton used to his typing.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

You guys giving this poor bastard advise or just giving him the idea that we are all crazy? Just asking 9kkhhd


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> You guys giving this poor bastard advise or just giving him the idea that we are all crazy? Just asking 9kkhhd


I think all the advice given were well intentionned..appart from individuals just looking for an ego trip..


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

i still say rock the half stack  you wont regret it sure its a pain to lug around. All that aside the sound that comes out of a 4x12 in my opinion sounds alot better than the same amp out of a 2x12 or a 1x12. You will just need to try out all the above and see what you like. Just because you have a half stack dosnt mean it has to be 100w. You can get 30w heads or whatever or 50w. my amp is 100w but has a setting to bring it down to 25 watts. If you need it to be quieter. From my experience the 4x12 just makes alot more sound and just sounds better. Go try out all 3 cab types and see what you like. hell you might even like a 4x10.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

I have had my share of half stacks and know the can play in smaller rooms, that was not the point.
What I did say is get a head and cabs that can cover all size venues and take what you need.

A Mesa F-50 in a short head would make a super compact rig with a 2-12 on its side.

JFK you are 100% right!
Try them all first before you buy.

You are right, some people are on an ego trip LOL


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

My ego's HUGE guys, just saying.

...

...

wait, did I say "ego"? 

OK OK OK Back on topic, if you can try out gear please do! A high end 212 combo with a similar config to an intermediate level half stack (ie both are closedback) should probably leave the halfie in the dust. Again I use my marshall MG vs. Peavey JSX comparison to state that it's not the size of your rig, it's how you use it. And if you're in a band, I can't stress this enough - there will probably be at least one (1) 412 cabinet at the venue, and if the ohms match up or it's a safe mis-match (and the owner is NOT a jerk), you can run your combo to the 412.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

al3d said:


> lol..i love how you think everyone is stupid and does'nt know how tube amps are designed..hehe..come one justin... and what's wrong with playing at 6?...we do that at band practice..no worris here


I don't think anyone (here) is stupid, and I know damn well you know how a tube amp is designed  so that doesn't help your post, since the facts you are providing isn't entirely true, eh? The OP won't know that my amp sounds 1000x better on 6 then it does on 0.5 (guess which one of those is the house volume when there's homework being done or someone is tired, btw) - and that this is *generally* true for most production tube amps, unless someone informs him.

ENGL's do low volume really well. Peavey JSX does low volume better than some. This is to say that the ENGL brand and JSX model by peavey, will give you sounds you actually really like *nearly as much as* band practice/jam/gig volumes, as opposed to other amps that can be beaten by today's modelling practice/gigging amps at house volumes (house vol being talking or yelling).


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Check out this head, great place to start!

Peavey XXX guitar amp head

Ad this then track down a 2-12

Peavey 5150 4x12 Slant Cab


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Bevo said:


> Check out this head, great place to start!
> 
> Peavey XXX guitar amp head
> 
> ...



that would kick ass for a first kit and learn the way tube amps work man..greath find..and under budjet..


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I've taught Bev well (can I take the credit, Bevo?? Haha!)


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I think a 4x12 always sounds "bigger" than a 2x12. I'm sorry, but I've jammed with guys with inferior equipment than mine, but were running it into a 4x12 and it just had a fuller sound. I'd totally get one if I had the space and played out more. a 1x12 or 2x12 sound great...UNTIL they're played against a 4x12 in the same room.
I wouldnt recommend a MkIII, but I'd consider a single or dual recto. I alos thinkt he peavey 6505+ would make an excellent amp in this case. Maybe even consider a Randall V3 or warhead. There was a great deal on a Randall RG100ES on Craigslist a while ago that would make a great head for this type of music (used to have one)...I think it was going for $200 or so. Very under-rated. Get the RG100, plug it into a Marshall 1960b 4x12 and you're under a grand with a huge nasty sound (maybe add an OD pedal for more nasty)!


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

No problem Budda.

I do agree with the 4-12 comments but still think its good to have options when playing houses or micro venues.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Bevo said:


> No problem Budda.
> 
> I do agree with the 4-12 comments but still think its good to have options when playing houses or micro venues.


but what's wrong with a 4x12 in small venues?....if you don't have a PA...that's gonna sound even better..if you do...AGAIN..even bette


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

al3d said:


> but what's wrong with a 4x12 in small venues?....if you don't have a PA...that's gonna sound even better..if you do...AGAIN..even bette


Hahaha, I love your enthusiasm, Alain!

I bet the sound guys LOVES it when he sees you carting the 4x12s into the club


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

hollowbody said:


> Hahaha, I love your enthusiasm, Alain!
> 
> I bet the sound guys LOVES it when he sees you carting the 4x12s into the club


u can not replicate the prescence a 4x12 gives you.. it's that sample..


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## kruts (Apr 30, 2006)

LOL! You guys are great - ok, I suggested buying a 5150 head (or a JSX would work) for $500 and a marshall cabinet for $400. The 5150 or JSX has a great master volume so you can play it at bedroom volume.

Now the debate is about bringing a 4x12 into a club and the sound-man rolling his eyes... the 4x12 also has great presence. So brain surgeons, how do you solve that problem?

Answer: you buy a used oversized 2x12 cabinet that has equivalent presence and throw. I'd suggest a used bogner OS cabinet for $600, or an avatar cabinet (oversized) to do the job. These come with V30s which is perfect for the 5150. Or, a mesa 2x12 cabinet can work too.

A 5150 head with a bogner OS 2x12 is a PRO setup, for $1100 you have an awesome system, sounds great at bedroom volumes, isn't too large for clubs, and works great for larger venues (just mike the cabinet). You keep the soundman happy!

Solved.

I don't think the debate needs to continue... if you guys still think the 2x12 is too large then all you need to do is buy a bogner cube for $300 or a couple of them. That avoids the size problem. Those little cubes sound quite good!

The OP needs to get advice from people who has gone down the path of lots of gear... and I've been there (and still am).


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

I guess I don't see the need for the smaller rooms but I am one opinion.

Maybe I need to get a 4-12 for home!


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Bevo said:


> Maybe I need to get a 4-12 for home!


What the heck - go ahead and get 2! 1/2 stacks are for pussies ! !


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

bagpipe said:


> What the heck - go ahead and get 2! 1/2 stacks are for pussies ! !


loll.that was my set-up in the 80's for band practice..


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I had a full stack in the basement for home use for a while. The real advantage was leaving one 412 at band practice and one at home


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