# push pull pots



## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Are you able to use a push/pull pot as a single volume with 2 humbuckers, and use the push pull to switch pickups?


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Yes. the switch on a push pull is usually a 2p2t (on-on) and all you need to switch pickups is 1P2T. The caveat here is that there will be no way to have both on at the same time. What might work better for you if you want both as an option and minimal controls is a single blend pot (cheaper) where all the way one way is neck, the other way is bridge and both is in the middle (you can get a pot with a center detent so it's easy to find the middle). Make it a dual concentric pot (2 knobs on 1 shaft) and you can have a master volume as well.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Thanks! Its for a guitar I'm making for my dad and he wants minimal controls and doesn't use both pickups at the same time. I figured it would work, but I'm not much of a wiring wiz, and more of a trial and error type of electronics guy.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

I was thinking either the push pull or a concentric pot, and still not sure which. I feel like the concentric pot would allow more control, but also would be a lot harder to switch pickups quickly.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Yes exactly. If he never uses both then the push pull is easier.


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## alwaysflat (Feb 14, 2016)

If he plays with a pick, a toggle + pot may be worth considering.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Does anyone know how to wire the push pull for 2 humbuckers? I found a diagram online but it doesn't seem to work.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

How not? Is it because the buckers are 4 wire (vs 2 on the diagram)? If so then wire the buckers up permanently first (standard is series coils; see the pickup makers website for info on which wire is which - the 4 wires make 2 pairs - join them together ) and then take the, effectively, 2 remaining leads and wire up as you would single coils (as, I assume, is shown on this diagram you mention). If you want to be able to play with the 4 wires (coil taps or series/parrallel switching etc) then you need a whole other switch in front of that push pull selector to do that (and I am assuming due to the above re minimal controls, that this is not the case so I am not getting into that further).

If that's not it, more info please, including the diagram you are referencing.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

To be honest I'm not sure. The 4 wires aren't a big issue. I am trying to find the wiring diagram for it but it is hard to find and I was using my friends iPad so I didn't have it on mine. It seems strange that it is such an elusive wiring diagram. Maybe because it is so easy everyone should be able to do it? Haha


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

This seems to be the only one I can find. Though it isn't the one I tried last night and the wiring is definitely different.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Wait. Found it. So this seems to just have both pickups on. Which kind of looks like what it would do since botch pickups are just attached on the commons.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I don't think this is correct. I have never seen a pot terminal wired to ground.










What do you do with the black wires?


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

I do not know. I didn't make the diagram I just tried to find one to follow.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

RBlakeney said:


> I do not know. I didn't make the diagram I just tried to find one to follow.


Sorry, I should have been more clear.
I was just trying to warn you not to use that wiring diagram.

Will this not accomplish what you want?










Do you have the 4 wires from each pickup sorted out?
(as @Granny Gremlin tells you about in his post)
Getting the wires correct is imperative and different manufacturers use different colour combinations. Here are some of them...


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

greco said:


> Sorry, I should have been more clear.
> I was just trying to warn you not to use that wiring diagram.
> 
> Will this not accomplish what you want?
> ...


This one looks better. I had only found it today though and the guitar we were working on is at my friends house so I didn't have a chance to try it. 
I think the biggest issue yesterday was trying to solder and figure out things while tired.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

RBlakeney said:


> I think the biggest issue yesterday was trying to solder and figure out things while tired.


I hear you! 

Get the wire colours sorted out and that is half of the work done.

Soldering to push-pulls can be tedious/frustrating/demanding/nerve wracking and lots of fun because the terminals are so small.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Though there is something simple and elegant about combining pickup switching and volume control in a single knob, personally I am not partial to them, simply because they are ripe for "accidents". A person goes to alter volume and accidentally push the pot down. Or the pickups have different output levels and pushing or pulling also unintentionally involves nudging the volume, resulting in a drop or boost in volume.

That considered, I would recommend wiring up the switch such that the "down" position selects the bridge pickup. Since this is generally viewed/treated as the "solo" or "lead" pickup, the quick action of pushing down with the butt of one's hand allows the user to gto from rhytm to lead easily and without error.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Though there is something simple and elegant about combining pickup switching and volume control in a single knob, personally I am not partial to them, simply because they are ripe for "accidents". A person goes to alter volume and accidentally push the pot down. Or the pickups have different output levels and pushing or pulling also unintentionally involves nudging the volume, resulting in a drop or boost in volume.


Certainly something to think about.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

greco said:


> I don't think this is correct. I have never seen a pot terminal wired to ground.
> 
> View attachment 132353


Sure you have ... the other diagram you posted just used shorthand (ground symbol) vs drawing it to a pot case (which is grounded)



greco said:


> What do you do with the black wires?
> View attachment 132361


Ground (pot case). Assuming your pickups are using that colour scheme of course.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Sure you have ... the other diagram you posted just used shorthand (ground symbol) vs drawing it to a pot case (which is grounded)
> 
> 
> 
> Ground (pot case). Assuming your pickups are using that colour scheme of course.


I meant the *ring terminal on the pot*....*NOT the case/back of the pot*. LOOK CAREFULLY at the diagram again.












Being VERY certain about the colour scheme was the point I was trying to make. I wasted many hours on a similar issue with some older, 4-wire humbuckers and a push-pull pot. @laristotle finally cracked the colour code.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

mhammer said:


> Though there is something simple and elegant about combining pickup switching and volume control in a single knob, personally I am not partial to them, simply because they are ripe for "accidents". A person goes to alter volume and accidentally push the pot down. Or the pickups have different output levels and pushing or pulling also unintentionally involves nudging the volume, resulting in a drop or boost in volume.
> 
> That considered, I would recommend wiring up the switch such that the "down" position selects the bridge pickup. Since this is generally viewed/treated as the "solo" or "lead" pickup, the quick action of pushing down with the butt of one's hand allows the user to gto from rhytm to lead easily and without error.


It wouldn't really be my first choice. But it's what was wanted for the build. 
Also yes the plan is to have the down position be the bridge. 
It works out well enough as when we get this one figured out, I'm half done another build for my dad who wants the same wiring.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

greco said:


> I meant the *ring terminal on the pot*....*NOT the case/back of the pot*. LOOK CAREFULLY at the diagram again.


Ah; I just saw the black wires leading off the page to the right and assumed those.

Looking at the switch wiring on the later diagram, I am not sure I'd want to do it that way.


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