# Annoying Situation...



## kabong (Mar 30, 2014)

As some of you may know, I've posted a few "WTB" ads here on the forum. I've received a number of great responses from members as well.
However, one member ( who shall remain nameless...), responded to one of my posts offering up a guitar that I was looking for with a pic of his & asking "_How much am I looking to spend?" _

Now I don't know about anyone else, but I find this to be somewhat 'annoying' question...When someone offers up a guitar 'for sale'; should they not also tell you the price they have in mind? That's exactly what I suggested & the question was ignored. I then asked for some more & better pics, which he did send. The guitar looks good to me. So once again, I said that "Yes. Looks good. What price do you have in mind?" Only to be told he asked me first_ "How much do I want to spend?"_

Well, at this point; I'm annoyed. To the point where I know that this won't go anywhere with not putting a price on his guitar that he's 'supposedly' offering up for sale. It feels now like he's just 'showing off' his guitar.

I respond like this : _"This seems like a 'backwards' sort of way to do business. When a person offers up an item for sale; it pretty well always has to have a price. As a matter of I believe in fact it's a "must" for any of the 'for sale' listings here.
To ask *"How much do you want to spend?"* is not a realistic question. Ideally, I like to spend $500.00; but obviously that's unacceptable because I know what "Fair Market Value" is for these guitars. I'm sure you do as well. So of course that's the "ballpark area" in terms of what I'm prepared to spend.
I am a serious buyer. Not a 'tire kicker'. I have the funds ready to go & could PayPal you the $$$ money today if we could come to terms on a price for your guitar. No problem at all.
However, if you don't want to put a price on your guitar; that's fine, I'll just move on then...
Thanks."_

Of course the communication turned a bit ugly at this point. But now; we're done.

So... Am I wrong here?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I think that question has its place.

If I walk into a music store and say something like " I would like to buy a guitar.....some salespeople will ask what my budget is. No sense suggesting a $3000 LP if the guy only has $500 to spend.

If you're already discussing a specific instrument, no I wouldn't ask or answer the question.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I know prices have to be listed in FS listings on here, does that apply to replying to WTB ones as well @davetcan @fogdart ?


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## kabong (Mar 30, 2014)

Milkman said:


> I think that question has its place.
> 
> If I walk into a music store and say something like " I would like to buy a guitar.....some salespeople will ask what my budget is. No sense suggesting a $3000 LP if the guy only has $500 to spend.
> 
> If you're already discussing a specific instrument, no I wouldn't ask or answer the question.


I understand what you're saying. When someone walks into a retail shop with 100 guitars hanging on the wall. But that's a totally different scenario. This is / was a *very* specific instrument as he responded to my "WTB" post...


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## Mike_Blaszk (Sep 16, 2021)

I dont think its an unfair question on either your part or his. This is the buy/sell negotiation game. If you're the buyer, you're typically trying to spend as little as possible for the item that you want. If you're the seller, you're usually trying to sell your item for as much money as possible. Obviously, this assumes that the two of you don't know each other and have no vested interest or attachment to one another. In all fairness, though, I think a reasonable middle ground would be for either you or the seller to look up the price history of the item and make an offer based on the average pricing of the item. You would probably lean towards the lower end of that spectrum and he would lean to the upper portion of it and maybe you could come to an acceptable middle ground. Either way, you're going to look at the situation differently depending on what side of the deal you're on and either of you could initiate the negotiation process. I completely get your perspective, but I'm sure he would say 'Why don't you have a price that youre willing to spend in your WTB ad or make me an offer seeing as how you want the item?'. At the end of the day, neither of you is wrong and noone should take any of this personally.


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## aC2rs (Jul 9, 2007)

I'm in full agreement with Kabong on this.
The member offering the guitar for sale should have provided his asking price when Kabong said he was interested in it and asked for one.
Even though it is a WTB ad, I believe it is still the sellers responsibility to get the price negotiations rolling.


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## fogdart (Mar 22, 2017)

Budda said:


> I know prices have to be listed in FS listings on here, does that apply to replying to WTB ones as well @davetcan @fogdart ?


There are no rules surrounding that. But coming to the buyer with a price certainly is a friendlier way of doing business.


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## kabong (Mar 30, 2014)

Mike_Blaszk said:


> I dont think its an unfair question on either your part or his. This is the buy/sell negotiation game. If you're the buyer, you're typically trying to spend as little as possible for the item that you want. If you're the seller, you're usually trying to sell your item for as much money as possible. Obviously, this assumes that the two of you don't know each other and have no vested interest or attachment to one another. In all fairness, though, I think a reasonable middle ground would be for either you or the seller to look up the price history of the item and make an offer based on the average pricing of the item. You would probably lean towards the lower end of that spectrum and he would lean to the upper portion of it and maybe you could come to an acceptable middle ground.


I agree totally with what you're saying Mike.

Where you mention- " I think a reasonable middle ground would be for either you or the seller to look up the price history of the item and make an offer based on the average pricing of the item."

I feel that I did suggest that when I said- "_I know what "Fair Market Value" is for these guitars. I'm sure you do as well. So of course that's the "ballpark area" in terms of what I'm prepared to spend."_
But once again his response was "How much do you want to spend? I asked you first"...As I said... Annoying...

Why should I offer up say $5,000.00 'out of the blue' when the seller may be perfectly fine with $3.000.00? No one likes shooting themselves in the foot, right?


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I agree with Mike.

The act of negotiation brings tension to any arena. One person is pissed because the merchandise is what they want but doesn't like the attitude of the seller, while the seller reminds the buyer that they have the power and know you want their item. That is not new, and if the buyer wants the item then they have to play the game. And that may mean adapting or being flexible to the type of seller's game presented at the time. It's arguably an exercise in character relations. If one doesn't want to play that game, skip the insults & complaints and move on. Some are savages in the ring, others are courteous.

Complaining about it privately or publicly won't stop anyone from doing this in the future. At this stage, the very idea this seller does what he does proves he's had success with this approach in the past no matter what other people think of his tactics. Only a fool would continue using an approach that doesn't work. Obviously it works for this seller.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

fogdart said:


> There are no rules surrounding that. But coming to the buyer with a price certainly is a friendlier way of doing business.


I appreciate the clarification.

For the OP, it boils down to how much BS will you put up with to get this specific guitar from that person?

Im sure a few here have declined a deal due to the seller or buyer.


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## Mike_Blaszk (Sep 16, 2021)

kabong said:


> I agree totally with what you're saying Mike.
> 
> Where you mention- " I think a reasonable middle ground would be for either you or the seller to look up the price history of the item and make an offer based on the average pricing of the item."
> 
> ...


I don't disagree. At the end of the day, if you're not comfortable dealing with a person because you don't think they're negotiating in good faith or that its too much of a hassle for an item that you can get elsewhere, that's understandable. Some people aren't worth dealing with and some items aren't worth the headache. Im just trying to look at it impartially from both sides as an outside observer from the most basic 'buy/sell' perspective.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

kabong said:


> As some of you may know, I've posted a few "WTB" ads here on the forum. I've received a number of great responses from members as well.
> However, one member ( who shall remain nameless...), responded to one of my posts offering up a guitar that I was looking for with a pic of his & asking "_How much am I looking to spend?" _
> 
> Now I don't know about anyone else, but I find this to be somewhat 'annoying' question...When someone offers up a guitar 'for sale'; should they not also tell you the price they have in mind? That's exactly what I suggested & the question was ignored. I then asked for some more & better pics, which he did send. The guitar looks good to me. So once again, I said that "Yes. Looks good. What price do you have in mind?" Only to be told he asked me first_ "How much do I want to spend?"_
> ...


I had to go back in my messages to remember but I got one of those “how much do you want to spend” responses as well.

I think it’s just a shitty way to try and see if you can get an unrealistic price for your instrument you don’t really want to sell unless you can fleece someone for more than what it’s worth.

It’s the same as asking what’s your lowest price instead of making an offer on a for sale ad.

At the time I remember being annoyed, so I just responded with what I knew was a lowball offer and received a ridiculous counter offer way over market value as I expected.

I declined and ended up picking one up a few months later for a price I was willing to pay.

Just a scumbag shitty negotiating tactic is all that is.


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

It’s a pretty common negotiating tactic on the used market, but not one I respond to as a buyer. I think of it as a but like the unpriced items at Harrod’s: if you have to ask, you can’t afford it.

If someone comes to me with that tactic, I assume one of two things: either 1) they are unrealistic and think their Squire tele is worth $950 because internet lore, or 2) they are educated on value and want the upper end of value (let’s say for a $300-500 Squire they’ll want $500) or maybe better if you happen to be the one buyer willing to pay above market because you want it now.

If I’m thinking of paying $350 for that $300-500 Squire, or maybe $300 if I get lucky, this isn’t the deal for me. I can throw my $350 across the table, but it will probably get rejected and I’ve got to be willing to walk away.


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## kabong (Mar 30, 2014)

Budda said:


> I appreciate the clarification.
> 
> For the OP, it boils down to how much BS will you put up with to get this specific guitar from that person?
> 
> Im sure a few here have declined a deal due to the seller or buyer.


I don't put up with any BS. I'm pretty much a straight shooter. _"Tell me your price please?"._.. If I'm okay with; great, we have a deal. If I feel it's more than I'd like to spend. I simply ask "_Are you open to offers?"_ If yes; great. The negotiations begin. If the answer is no; fine, I politely move on...


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Budda said:


> I appreciate the clarification.
> 
> For the OP, it boils down to how much BS will you put up with to get this specific guitar from that person?
> 
> Im sure a few here have declined a deal due to the seller or buyer.


WTB ads are, by their very nature, a negotiation. At least in my opinion. If I'm looking for something in particular I usually have a price in mind. If I'm selling something, same thing.. I don't think we can impose a rule as to "who goes first", buyer or seller. An easy way out might be including a price in the WTB ad. "Looking for a '56 LP, no more than $1000". That should weed out the tire kickers


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

I get the irritation... my Ex was famous for answering a question with "_why do you need to know that?_" Well dear, because I asked you a reasonable question... that's why. 

It's one thing to ask "_What are you looking to spend?_" when you open the negotiations or are feeling each other out, but then when asked directly AGAIN the value you had in mind, then give up the play. Be honest. The worst the buyer can say is "No".


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

kabong said:


> I don't put up with any BS. I'm pretty much a straight shooter. _"Tell me your price please?"._.. If I'm okay with; great, we have a deal. If I feel it's more than I'd like to spend. I simply ask "_Are you open to offers?"_ If yes; great. The negotiations begin. If the answer is no; fine, I politely move on...


And I feel like that method usually works well. Perhaps the potential seller was hoping for desperation so they could sell high.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Double...


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I would have responded with "What I want to spend is likely less than you're willing to accept so give me some guidance on what I have to spend in order to get your guitar". Is kind of a stupid strategy on the part of the seller. If you offer something on the lower end of market value, what does the seller do? Turn it down or counter. If he counters then at that point he'll have to show his hand. It sounds like neither of you handled this well for it to turn nasty.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I would probably not reply. I have better things to do.


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## Permanent Waves (Jun 2, 2020)

kabong said:


> I respond like this : _"This seems like a 'backwards' sort of way to do business. When a person offers up an item for sale; it pretty well always has to have a price. As a matter of I believe in fact it's a "must" for any of the 'for sale' listings here.
> To ask *"How much do you want to spend?"* is not a realistic question. Ideally, I like to spend $500.00; but obviously that's unacceptable because I know what "Fair Market Value" is for these guitars. I'm sure you do as well. So of course that's the "ballpark area" in terms of what I'm prepared to spend.
> I am a serious buyer. Not a 'tire kicker'. I have the funds ready to go & could PayPal you the $$$ money today if we could come to terms on a price for your guitar. No problem at all.
> However, if you don't want to put a price on your guitar; that's fine, I'll just move on then...
> Thanks."_


That's a great response - you are not wrong and doing well to move on. I rarely post WTB ads for that very reason, but when I do, I usually put in a price range of reasonable market value so we can calibrate expectations. If someone is a motivated buyer and someone else has that particular instrument but is not inclined to sell, it can create a situation that's ripe for price gouging. Still, when someone offers something for sale, they should set a price rather than play the "how high are you willing to pay" game. I am glad the policy on this forum is to state the FS asking price, as I refuse to deal with anyone who refuses to name it. I won't even respond to a FS ad unless there is a price stated, as often it's just folks "testing the waters" or trying to figure out how much they could get for a guitar they don't want to sell. I assume if someone is not stating an asking price, they are not a serious seller and I move on.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Budda said:


> And I feel like that method usually works well. Perhaps the potential seller was hoping for desperation so they could sell high.


I get that too… 

I have a CS Nocaster I really can’t put a price on cause the COA, and original… well, everything is gone. Long story. I’ve never had that stuff, cause that’s how I bought it. I wanted what that guitar offered, and was willing to spend the asking. It would take a lot more than that to get it off me. Not because I’m greedy, but because I would truly miss the guitar. I don’t have a value in mind, so in this case I would ask “What are you willing to spend?” Cause if I paid $2K (I did not) and someone offered $4K cause they really wanted it, would I say “no!”? Hard to say. 

But, in the spirit of the thread, I wouldn’t keep saying that… but then, I’m not looking to sell.


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## Dan Caldwell (Feb 26, 2017)

I might just answer with what I’d spend on that guitar. If they say sure great. If not I’m fine with that too. There are always more deals out there.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I find with some people, the arrogance of the seller is directly proportional to the value (or rarity) of the item.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Be careful when listing WTB ads. Scammer thieves prey on them.


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## kabong (Mar 30, 2014)

player99 said:


> Be careful when listing WTB ads. Scammer thieves prey on them.


Yes. I'm aware of that. But the response I got to my "WTB" ad is from a ( believe it or not?) "Premium" Forum member. There's definitely nothing 'premium' about him in my books though...LOL!


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

I can see the irritation. I would've offered a low value, saying I'd need to see it in person to be able to offer more. Low value would assume poor condition, and explain that is where you offer comes from. 
I hate negioting for things though, and my experience with one or two wanted ads i placed here or on kijiji was too many scammers fishing for money so I gave it up.


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

kabong said:


> that's unacceptable because I know what "Fair Market Value" is for these guitars


well, fair market value is a flexible and changing number depending where you are and your schedule and specific details of the thing being sold
i think the question is in poor taste but the intent is fair
what they want to know is how motivated a buyer are you? evidently motivated enough to throw out a WTB request but if you were really motivated and want to demonstrate that you're aware of fair market value you could say 'willing to pay $850' or something like that. you've chosen not to show your cards in that way and they're doing the same little dance in response
if they ask twice and you're not willing to respond then the dance is no fun and time to quit it

j


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

kabong said:


> As some of you may know, I've posted a few "WTB" ads here on the forum. I've received a number of great responses from members as well.
> However, one member ( who shall remain nameless...), responded to one of my posts offering up a guitar that I was looking for with a pic of his & asking "_How much am I looking to spend?" _
> 
> Now I don't know about anyone else, but I find this to be somewhat 'annoying' question...When someone offers up a guitar 'for sale'; should they not also tell you the price they have in mind? That's exactly what I suggested & the question was ignored. I then asked for some more & better pics, which he did send. The guitar looks good to me. So once again, I said that "Yes. Looks good. What price do you have in mind?" Only to be told he asked me first_ "How much do I want to spend?"_
> ...



If the person wasn't thinking of selling but saw your ad and thought 'yeah, why not?' then it is not unreasonable for them not to have a price in mind. They did not post an ad offering it for sale and asking prospective buyers to come up with a price, they responded to your request.


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## Dom Polito (Jan 8, 2016)

keto said:


> I would probably not reply. I have better things to do.


I'm with Keto. My foots already out the door at the words "how much are you willing...............Gone!!!!!!!!!
Next!
but that's just me.
Time is of the essence, and I don't waste it.
But there are some great folks on here make no mistake.


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## kabong (Mar 30, 2014)

Dom Polito said:


> I'm with Keto. My foots already out the door at the words "how much are you willing...............Gone!!!!!!!!!
> Next!
> but that's just me.
> Time is of the essence, and I don't waste it.
> But there are some great folks on here make no mistake.


Yep. Probably what I_ 'should have done'... _I was just hoping for a 'reasonable' outcome. It just didn't happen. So I was* "GONE!!!!!".* Just not as quickly as I should have been...


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

I feel about that question the same way I feel about "What's your best price?"


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

kabong said:


> Why should I offer up say $5,000.00 'out of the blue' when the seller may be perfectly fine with $3.000.00? No one likes shooting themselves in the foot, right?


Why should the seller be perfectly fine with $3,000 if the buyer may be offering up say $5,000 out of the blue?
I never take gear price negotiations personally.
Negotiations via text can be tough and a lot of posts in this thread are attributing all kinds of things to this mystery seller that we just don’t know.
If you know the market value of the item in question and it is in a condition that is acceptable to you, offer your lowest ideal price and start there. The seller is giving you the initiative on the price game. If they are not leading with a price, chances are good they aren’t going to sell you a $5k guitar for $3k. Either that, or they have no clue about pricing and are trying for a fair value


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

fuck that guy. 
it's a bullshit game.

i can only speak for myself, but i refuse to play it. if the guy wants to sell, name the price or don't waste my time. he either wants to sell, or he doesn't. 
he ALREADY KNOWS you want to buy. 
he already knows you are serious.
the game he is playing is a prelude to asking for more than what he believes it's worth. if he wants to sell, he knows what he will accept. name it, or fuck off. simple as that. someone out there has one, and they will negotiate in good faith. 
the art of the deal is what it's all about. patience, and a willingness to walk away decides who will know satisfaction. 
do not let someone else decide how you will spend your money.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

personally, if I’m posting something for sale, I will have done some work looking into prices that I’ll post for. If I were responding to a wtb ad, it’s usually something I wouldn’t have been planning on selling and probably not Planning to make a lot of effort since I’m not proactively selling. That being said, if someone also didn’t have a price in mind, I would be inclined to give a price, it’s not really a huge deal.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

colchar said:


> If the person wasn't thinking of selling but saw your ad and thought 'yeah, why not?' then it is not unreasonable for them not to have a price in mind. They did not post an ad offering it for sale and asking prospective buyers to come up with a price, they responded to your request.


I don't think it's an unreasonable question, since a lot of buyers seem to focus on that deal of a century price they saw once three years ago and expect to get it from you. I'd at least like to know we're in the same ballpark on value rather than waste everyone's time.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

RBlakeney said:


> persinally, if I’m posting something for sale, I will have done some work looking into prices that I’ll post for. If I were responding to a wtb ad, it’s usually something I wouldn’t have been planning on selling and probably not Planning to make a lot of effort since I’m not proactively selling. That being said, if someone also didn’t have a price in mind, I would be inclined to give a price, it’s not really a huge deal.


If I were to post a WTB ad I'd be looking for someone that maybe holding what I'm after and had been planning on selling it and just never got around to it, maybe. Not someone looking to take advantage of a situation where he thinks I'm more desperate to buy it then he is to sell it. 
I think a great thing to add as a disclaimer to a WTB ad is "Must name your price or you will be ignored". Might be an easy way to avoid what the OP experienced.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

As a matter of course in negotiation, there's actually a strategic advantage to throwing a number out first. It's called anchoring bias because that initial figure has an undue influence on all other numbers presented thereafter. It's equally conceivable then that you missed a golden opportunity.


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## dmc69 (Jan 20, 2011)

StevieMac said:


> As a matter of course in negotiation, there's actually a strategic advantage to throwing a number out first. It's called anchoring bias because that initial figure has an undue influence on all other numbers presented thereafter. It's equally conceivable then that you missed a golden opportunity.


While I'm not one to like price fishing, I agree with this. If you want to put the power in my court, I will absolutely take advantage of it.


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## kabong (Mar 30, 2014)

cheezyridr said:


> fuck that guy.
> it's a bullshit game.
> 
> i can only speak for myself, but i refuse to play it. if the guy wants to sell, name the price or don't waste my time. he either wants to sell, or he doesn't.
> ...


Right on cheezyridr. I like the way you think... ( I was just too 'civil' to say all that to him..LOL)


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

StevieMac said:


> As a matter of course in negotiation, there's actually a strategic advantage to throwing a number out first. It's called anchoring bias because that initial figure has an undue influence on all other numbers presented thereafter. It's equally conceivable then that, while protesting, you missed a golden opportunity.


This is bang on.

If you're looking for something that sells between $3k and $5k depending on various factors and they ask you how much, why not lead with $2500? Now the negotiation is either going to be too far apart to get anywhere, or the seller is going to be forced to bring you up from there, especially since he asked.

Keep a cool head and stick to your price range in negotiations. Have an ideal price, a ceiling (when buying) and a floor (when selling) and work between them.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

I would have offered a ridicule low amount. He would surely (maybe not) have refused and then I would have asked how much does he think it's worth.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

it reminds me of the many ads i've seen on kijiji and craig's list that say "guitar x for sale, make an offer" 
i can't tell you how many times i've responded to those ads with "ok, how about $14?"


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

cheezyridr said:


> it reminds me of the many ads i've seen on kijiji and craig's list that say "guitar x for sale, make an offer"
> i can't tell you how many times i've responded to those ads with "ok, how about $14?"


“Well… you asked!” Ha, ha!


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## Dom Polito (Jan 8, 2016)

Another thing you could do to save time is post an actual price your willing to pay for the item. Someone might just say yes.


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## DrumBob (Aug 17, 2014)

That would annoy me too and basically tells me the coy seller is trying to bait the prospective buyer. That's BS. I don't do business like that and don't want someone to pull that nonsense on me, but it did happen to me last week.

There's a guy selling a Burgundy Sparkle Ludwig floor tom on Reverb, a very rare wrapped finish. I have a set of '71 Ludwig drums in that color and it's hard to find odd orphan drums to match. The guy is asking $875 for the floor tom that is slightly out of round, which I think is an excessive number, so I emailed him and asked him for his bottom line price before making an offer. He emailed back, "What do you want to spend?" I answered him and said, "I don't want to insult you with a lowball offer." His response again was, "What do you want to spend?" Now, we're playing a stupid game of, "Who's going to cave in first." I figured, what the heck, he wants to know my price, so I emailed him back and said, "Since you asked me what I want to spend, it would be $550-600 max, given the bottom edge is slightly out of round, and as long as the color matches my current floor tom." Burgundy Sparkle tends to fade into a root beer shade when subjected to extended periods of sunlight. My set was meticulously stored in cases when not in use, and has retained its original shade. His drum seems to match mine pretty closely from the pictures posted, but you never know from pictures.

Then, he emails me back saying, "I think it's priced fairly." In other words, he really wasn't budging far from the asking price, even though he has Make An Offer on his page.

I said, "Then, I'm sorry to say, we don't agree and this transaction isn't going to happen. Obviously, you can ask whatever you want for it. I have never spent $875 for a floor tom, especially one with an issue, and I'm not starting now. Thanks and good luck selling it."

It's been sitting on Reverb unsold for months as it is. I think any buyer needs to be prepared to walk away from deals like this, no matter how much you want the item. I'd love to have a second floor tom for this set, but it's not in the cards, at least from this seller. Since then, I have found another Burgundy Sparkle Ludwig floor tom from a seller right here in New Jersey, and I can see the drum in person before buying it. That seller wants less than Seller #1, but I still need to get his asking price down to where I want it, if possible.

UPDATE: The guy selling the floor tom for $875 dropped his price today to $825. I guess he's starting to get nervous.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

guitarman2 said:


> If I were to post a WTB ad I'd be looking for someone that maybe holding what I'm after and had been planning on selling it and just never got around to it, maybe. Not someone looking to take advantage of a situation where he thinks I'm more desperate to buy it then he is to sell it.
> I think a great thing to add as a disclaimer to a WTB ad is "Must name your price or you will be ignored". Might be an easy way to avoid what the OP experienced.


I don’t disagree. i also don’t even look into wtb situations as desperate to buy or trying to make as much money as I can, or make a big deal of it. If I asked someone their budget, and they asked me how much I would sell it for, I would assume their budget is enough to buy, and give them my price. I think this situation is a bit ridiculous, and could be remedied on either side by someone having the ability to type a number. 🤷


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## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

Tough to negotiate a price when no one wants to start.

I see WTB posts that provide a looking to spend price, which seems like a fair and open approach.
The rules here require a price on FS posts and it might be an idea to do the same for WTB posts as well.

The OP did not provide a price in his post but is upset that the responder does not want to start the negotiation. 

I have no problem with the what's your best price approach but I expect no negotiation once that price is set.

The OP could have saved a lot of frustration by providing the seller with a price that he was comfortable spending.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

I've learned there's no item that I want so badly that I'd be willing to endure head-games to get it.


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## markxander (Oct 24, 2009)

I think the seller isn't actually interested in selling if they ask that, but I try not to take stuff like that personally. It only takes me a second to tell them what I'm ready to spend and they can take it or leave it. 

I am not super interested in haggling, and there's not really any gear I need bad enough that it's worth the stress over.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

cheezyridr said:


> it's a bullshit game.
> i can only speak for myself, but i refuse to play it. if the guy wants to sell, name the price or don't waste my time. he either wants to sell, or he doesn't.
> he ALREADY KNOWS you want to buy.
> he already knows you are serious.
> the game he is playing is a prelude to asking for more than what he believes it's worth. if he wants to sell, he knows what he will accept. name it, or fuck off. simple as that.


Yup.
For a sale to happen, you need someone looking to buy. We have that.
Then you need someone looking to sell. We’re assuming we have that here because he answered the ad.
The last thing you need is a price.

Negotiations aside, the price that will make the transaction happen is *100% up to the seller*. Yes, of course the buyer has a price they’re willing to pay but really, that’s irrelevant. If that price doesn’t meet the seller’s number, there’s no sale.

In a for sale ad, you put your number out there and negotiate from there. A WTB ad isn’t really a “buyer’s ad”. It’s still a guitar for sale ad but where the seller is already provided with a willing buyer. I still think it’s up to the seller to provide a starting point.



Dom Polito said:


> Another thing you could do to save time is post an actual price your willing to pay for the item. Someone might just say yes.





cbg1 said:


> I see WTB posts that provide a looking to spend price, which seems like a fair and open approach.
> The rules here require a price on FS posts and it might be an idea to do the same for WTB posts as well.
> The OP could have saved a lot of frustration by providing the seller with a price that he was comfortable spending.


Sometimes, that’s feasible but it depends what the WTB is for. Let’s say I’m looking for a Gibson ES-335. I’m open to a plain top, flame top, dots, blocks, and any other combination of options. The price can vary widely depending on many factors.
Same thing if I’m “looking for a Fender CS ‘56 Strat reissue”. Sunburst or custom colour? Relic or not? Regular run or limited edition? There’s no way to put a “willing to pay” price in that ad. I need to know what you have first.

I don’t know exactly what the OP was looking for but it’s not as cut and dry as “put what you’re willing to pay”.


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## Jackvulcan9000 (Sep 4, 2021)

If the seller does not specify a price then it is a fishing expedition. In which case, the seller should be content with his behaviour being responded to as if it's a fishing expedition. Nothing more. Nothing less. 

Plenty of good deals have been struck out of fishing expeditions. But it's ridiculous for the fisher to *demand/expect* the other party to partake. 

Everyone has a right to go fishing if they feel lucky. But nobody has a right to complain if they catch nothing.


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## kabong (Mar 30, 2014)

2manyGuitars said:


> Sometimes, that’s feasible but it depends what the WTB is for. Let’s say I’m looking for a Gibson ES-335. I’m open to a plain top, flame top, dots, blocks, and any other combination of options. The price can vary widely depending on many factors.
> Same thing if I’m “looking for a Fender CS ‘56 Strat reissue”. Sunburst or custom colour? Relic or not? Regular run or limited edition? There’s no way to put a “willing to pay” price in that ad. I need to know what you have first.
> 
> I don’t know exactly what the OP was looking for but it’s not as cut and dry as “put what you’re willing to pay”.


You bring up a very valid point here 2manyGuitars. \\;

One thing I didn't mention because I didn't think it was relevant to my post, but realize now it only ads validity to the point I'm trying to make...& what you mention here just nails that.
I'm looking for a 100% stock model of a certain Gibson guitar, which is what he offered up to me,_ BUT_, he's upgraded it withs a lot of 'admittedly good' upgrades; P/up. bridge, pickguard. pots, caps, etc...So I assume he'll want to be compensated for the cost of those. Well first off I truly have no idea what those upgrades are worth & I don't really want to pay 'extra; for them because I'm simply looking for a 'stock' guitar. All moot though really as the discussion never even got that far as all I kept getting was *"How much are you willing to spend?... About 3X!!!. ... *

_That got old real quick & I just left the conversation... Bye Bye!!!_


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

What were you trying to buy from the guy?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

kabong said:


> You bring up a very valid point here 2manyGuitars. \\;
> 
> One thing I didn't mention because I didn't think it was relevant to my post, but realize now it only ads validity to the point I'm trying to make...& what you mention here just nails that.
> I'm looking for a 100% stock model of a certain Gibson guitar, which is what he offered up to me,_ BUT_, he's upgraded it withs a lot of 'admittedly good' upgrades; P/up. bridge, pickguard. pots, caps, etc...So I assume he'll want to be compensated for the cost of those. Well first off I truly have no idea what those upgrades are worth & I don't really want to pay 'extra; for them because I'm simply looking for a 'stock' guitar. All moot though really as the discussion never even got that far as all I kept getting was *"How much are you willing to spend?... About 3X!!!. ... *
> ...


I would pick my dream number and say would you accept $X? If you are so low it's ridiculous then you might blow the deal. But the low side of fair then you have started a negotiation. He responds with a counter...


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Curious, had the owner of the guitar asked "What do you think is a fair price?", would that have somehow been less "annoying" to others. I honestly don't see what there is to complain about here or what's _inherently_ annoying about the owners behaviour. It was the same guitar model the buyer was after, every detail of the guitar was provided (Note: upgrade expenses are usually borne by the _seller_), and every opportunity to "name a price" (i.e. set an anchor) was offered. You either seize that opportunity or you don't and what ultimately happens says as much about the buyer as it does about the seller.

While it's comforting to be told "you were right and the other person was wrong", and there's certainly some of that happening here, it's an oversimplified viewpoint IMO. Another perspective is that the potential to get exactly what was desired at an acceptable price was missed entirely, due mostly to assumptions about others, choosing to be annoyed, and a lack of initiative/aversion to risk. It's also possible a bullet was dodged but I guess we'll never know in this particular case.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

StevieMac said:


> Curious, had the owner of the guitar asked "What do you think is a fair price?", would that have somehow been less "annoying" to others.



"What do you think is a fair price?" isn't much different than "how much are you willing to spend?" 
at the end of the day, it's the same game, but not as _overtly_ greedy. the un-spoken sentiment in the first statement is is still _what's it worth to ya? _the only time i would find it ok is if it was preceded with something like "i don't play guitar, i found it in an attic" or something to that effect. in a case like that, i would direct the guy to places he where they could get an idea of the value, make an offer, and tell him to get back to me if he found it acceptable. thing is, if they answered a wtb ad, that scenario is pretty unlikely.


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## Mike_Blaszk (Sep 16, 2021)

Look at it this way. If somebody has something for sale for a given price, most potential buyers will attempt to negotiate down from there towards the lower end of the average price spectrum in most cases. You can't blame them for this because its in their best interest. Now, most sellers will attempt to negotiate up from there because its in their best interest, but maybe you are personally 'offended' by this offer as the seller or 'don't do business this way', so you walk away. But thats a very surface level examination. Why did you do that? Because you want more money and are 'flexing' in the negotiation process for your item in order to get something more in line with what you feel the item is worth which will, in most cases, be more than what most people will want to spend (which is less). In a WTB situation, whether people like it or not, the roles will, in most cases, be reversed because your demand for the item currently outpaces the supply. Otherwise, if the item you wanted was available at the price you wanted, you would have already purchased the item. So why would anyone be surprised by the seller in this scenario attempting to negotiate from a position of strength when theres no price or price range established for an exact item desired? Also, if you post an item for sale, you're required to list a price for the item. So, if you are posting to entice someone else to offer you the product that you want, why would there be any more expectation for the price to be established by the seller than the initiating party? Again, you can be 'offended' by all of this because you want the process to go in a particular way that is more in line to benefit you, but you cannot be surprised when someone else is doing the exact same thing on the other side. Noone has the 'moral high ground' or is 'right'. This is just a situation where two people failed to initiate negotiation because of posturing.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

I’m just looking through, seeing which regular hasn’t chimed in, trying to determine who it was. 😆


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

DrumBob said:


> That would annoy me too and basically tells me the coy seller is trying to bait the prospective buyer. That's BS.



How is he trying to bait the buyer?

It is perfectly plausible that he had never thought of selling, had no price in mind, but saw the ad and thought 'yeah maybe'. If the buyer offers him a reasonable price he will negotiate, but if the buyer lowballs then he'll say fuck it and keep the guitar.

The buyer is the one being coy here. He is looking for something, but refuses to offer a price.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Both parties don’t understand the art of negotiation. It is not part of our culture so we often react badly. Other cultures open to the game of negotiation would have jumped in with both feet.


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## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

2manyGuitars said:


> I’m just looking through, seeing which regular hasn’t chimed in, trying to determine who it was. 😆


I had my guess, but he chimed in!


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

davetcan said:


> WTB ads are, by their very nature, a negotiation. At least in my opinion. If I'm looking for something in particular I usually have a price in mind. If I'm selling something, same thing.. I don't think we can impose a rule as to "who goes first", buyer or seller. An easy way out might be including a price in the WTB ad. "Looking for a '56 LP, no more than $1000". That should weed out the tire kickers


Providing a maximum budget is a good start and imo should be mandatory similar to posting an asking price in a FS ad. The concept of WTB ads is lost....it was originally suppose to be for specific items or hard to find items but are now a vehicle for lazy/smart buyers. Send me your best price and a half page dissertation on why I should buy your instrument. I generally don't have an issue with them except when they clutter the emporium and outnumber the actual FS ads.


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

We're 4 pages deep, read this whole thing and I must say....


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## kabong (Mar 30, 2014)

numb41 said:


> I had my guess, but he chimed in!


???


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## DrumBob (Aug 17, 2014)

I met a guy a couple of weeks ago at a local small music store. He bragged and bragged about his 37 vintage drumsets and showed me countless photos. One of them was a rare Gretsch set he had posted on Reverb for $10,000, which was a stupid price. I challenged him on it, and his response was, "I really didn't want to sell that set. I just put it up there with a high number to see what would happen."

My response was, "It's guys like you who give Reverb a bad name for overpriced gear. You wasted your own time and the time of anyone else who might have been interested in that set." 

That was the end of that conversation, as I finally walked out the door.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

colchar said:


> How is he trying to bait the buyer?
> 
> It is perfectly plausible that he had never thought of selling, had no price in mind, but saw the ad and thought 'yeah maybe'. If the buyer offers him a reasonable price he will negotiate, but if the buyer lowballs then he'll say fuck it and keep the guitar.
> 
> The buyer is the one being coy here. He is looking for something, but refuses to offer a price.


he did not contact the potential seller. the seller responded to a wtb ad.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

If you respond to a wtb ad with anything but a hey I have one and would like to get $xxxx for it then your just trying to cash in on perceived desperation whether it’s wrong or not or just a negotiating tactic will be opinion. If your asked how much you want for it but refuse to answer then it’s slimy IMO.

Of course that numbnut Colchar would chime in support of the seller cause he’s the actual type of scum that would try a move like that.


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## kabong (Mar 30, 2014)

numb41 said:


> I had my guess, but he chimed in!


If you're referring to the member who responded to my WTB post? ....He has not chimed in here...


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

There are members that self admittedly don't read anything beyond the FS forum.
That guy may not be aware of this thread?


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## kabong (Mar 30, 2014)

laristotle said:


> There are members that self admittedly don't read anything beyond the FS forum.
> That guy may not be aware of this thread?


Yes. That's my guess as well...


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

kabong said:


> If you're referring to the member who responded to my WTB post? ....He has not chimed in here...


When @numb41 posted “I had my guess, but he chimed in”, for a second, I thought it meant that “he” meant the seller. Then I realized he meant that there was someone he had suspected but then that person chimed in, making them no longer a suspect.


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## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

2manyGuitars said:


> When @numb41 posted “I had my guess, but he chimed in”, for a second, I thought it meant that “he” meant the seller. Then I realized he meant that there was someone he had suspected but then that person chimed in, making them no longer a suspect.


Bingo


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## kabong (Mar 30, 2014)

Well, that was 'interesting'...A definite 'difference / split of opinions' here. All good. Thanks everyone for your input & *MERRY **CHRISTMAS!!!*


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Merry Christmas. Life would be very boring if we all thought alike.


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## kabong (Mar 30, 2014)

Kerry Brown said:


> Merry Christmas. Life would be very boring if we all thought alike.


Hear hear!👍


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Well, I guess we generally know how to make our mind about how is a certain guitar in good shape worth. I would make an offer at 80%. Some may find it is a low ball, but it could be fair enough for the seller.
I once won an auction on eBay for less than half of a fair price. I did feel bad about that. After I got the guitar and made my mind about it, you know what ? I sent an extra 100$ to the seller !


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Just responded to a WTB on local FB for a lead melting pot. I said I had one and asked for $75 (I haven't been burning to sell, but don't see me using it again -- they list new at $130). First he asked for a picture -- sent. Then a picture of the other stuff I'd be tossing in (if you use a muffin pan for lead smelting, you don't put it back in the cupboard!). Then offered $50. I said "no." He may come look at it tomorrow.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

mawmow said:


> ...After I got the guitar and made my mind about it, you know what ? I sent an extra 100$ to the seller !


Not enough people like that, I'm the same. I would call that a tip, and I do that whenever it's warranted even for things & services that aren't known for tipping.


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