# Food delivery services need to smarten up



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

My younger son works at a Starbucks in downtown Halifax. He was complaining to us yesterday about the various food delivery services - Uber Eats, Skip the Dishes, et al - that have little to no coordination with the various eateries people are expecting to get orders from. His outlet has a fairly modest staff, that serves people who walk in the door, whether from nearby offices or from cruise ships that pulled into town.. They do NOT have a take-out window like Wendy's or McDonald's. And yet, people show up, mere minutes after typing stuff, expecting that someone was waiting with baited breath to prepare whatever showed up on a screen, instead of serving the person in front of them. He noted that there is zero coordination with such delivery services, and if something is either not stocked at all at that location or it is and they have simply run out, there is no indication to the person ordering. And yet, drivers show up expecting that it will be ready. He described a guy who strolled in the other day, some three minutes after placing an order for a dozen complicated coffees for the office, complaining that it wasn't ready, even though if he had placed the order as a walk-in, he would likely have to wait at least 5 minutes for a single coffee with just the right foam and crap sprinkled on top. And, as my son noted, when the driver has to leave empty-handed, their pay probably reflects that, even though they're still shelling out for the gas and wasting their time.

If there is coordination between the online "service" and the corresponding eatery, that would be fine, but it seems that such coordination doesn't exist, even though these online things appear to be something like a universal delivery service.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

People serving in restaurants get the shit end of the stick with Skip the Dishes and others like Uber eats.

The tips ALL go to the delivery service. Those preparing the orders suck wind.

For the most part, I’m good to pick up my food and frankly for the most part, I’m good to prepare my own food.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

mhammer said:


> My younger son works at a Starbucks in downtown Halifax. He was complaining to us yesterday about the various food delivery services - Uber Eats, Skip the Dishes, et al - that have little to no coordination with the various eateries people are expecting to get orders from. His outlet has a fairly modest staff, that serves people who walk in the door, whether from nearby offices or from cruise ships that pulled into town.. They do NOT have a take-out window like Wendy's or McDonald's. And yet, people show up, mere minutes after typing stuff, expecting that someone was waiting with baited breath to prepare whatever showed up on a screen, instead of serving the person in front of them. He noted that there is zero coordination with such delivery services, and if something is either not stocked at all at that location or it is and they have simply run out, there is no indication to the person ordering. And yet, drivers show up expecting that it will be ready. He described a guy who strolled in the other day, some three minutes after placing an order for a dozen complicated coffees for the office, complaining that it wasn't ready, even though if he had placed the order as a walk-in, he would likely have to wait at least 5 minutes for a single coffee with just the right foam and crap sprinkled on top. And, as my son noted, when the driver has to leave empty-handed, their pay probably reflects that, even though they're still shelling out for the gas and wasting their time.
> 
> If there is coordination between the online "service" and the corresponding eatery, that would be fine, but it seems that such coordination doesn't exist, even though these online things appear to be something like a universal delivery service.


With Uber Eats, anytime I order from them, there's always a bit of a wait while it says "confirming order with restaurant". The "preparing your order" message doesn't come up for a minute or two later. I'd always assumed the driver got the same messages to avoid him showing up to a restaurant where they've rejected the order.


----------



## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

First world problems...


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Don't worry about it . It will all be over shortly. Some food prep establishments say it is too much work for very little profit margin's.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Distortion said:


> Don't worry about it . It will all be over shortly. Some food prep establishments say it is too much work for very little profit margin's.


Why? What's the difference in preparing a food order for in-house dining vs take-out? Scooping into a container instead of a plate? And, they free up seating for more diners.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> Why? What's the difference in preparing a food order for in-house dining vs take-out? Scooping into a container instead of a plate? And, they free up seating for more diners.


*IF* you're set up for it. I think the issue is that such "services" may not be particularly well-coordinated, not everything works as take-out food, and what has parking nearby for patrons who are interested in an evening of dining out may not be particularly accommodating to drivers who need to park near the entrance, with their 4-ways on, dash in and dash out. The pittance they make only turns into a "living" if they can deliver to a lot of customers in a short period. I think it is worth noting that food establishments that do not currently have a delivery service of their own have probably not thought long and hard about preparing food for takeout. Doggy bags, maybe, but there's a difference between leftovers that the diner is already aware of, and food in a container whose presentation and state is supposed to foster a good reputation.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

disrupts the order taking , jumps the que, drivers deliver late, food is cold, restaurant gets blamed ... ratings slip and they loose customers...
time sensitive stuff ... shops with inhouse take out still rely on the FIFO method.

not quite like ordering your groceries online.

shops can't pay an extra person/window to hang around to specifically service the "might call in" ... not cost effective.
Apps should also toss in "estimated time for your order to be processed, then give a READY when it can be picked up"

a lot of shops in Ottawa have given up on external food delivery services ... just too many headaches.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

As a customer, I have had nothing but good experiences with the services in my town.

On the restaurant end, if they don't think they can handle the logistics then they shouldn't get the service. I know in a chains case they may have no choice, but the places that choose to go this route have the option to just stopping using it.

I live in Orangeville, and while it's still a town by definition it has a ton of restaurants. I have never seen one stop using the apps, only more being added. The drivers seem happy and the restaurants seem to be as well (I do work for a lot of them) . It could be that the type of area I live in is actually the ideal scenario for services like this. Busy, but spread out a bit without some of the issues a large city has.


----------



## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

The restaurant should opt out if they can’t handle the extra traffic.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

as was stated ... some outlets have no options ... chain head quarter's decision.

others are chucking the mess out the window

it's not just the extra traffic , mainly all the things beyond their control
is the driver courteous to the customers?, deliver on time ( and not trying to deliver several different orders in the area at the same time)
traffic snarl ups at rush hour (when everyone is ordering)
and the ones that order just a " burger and a Coke" 

some have avoided some of the problems by offering delivery after 7PM , a minimum order of $15.00 -$20.00 before delivery and within a xxx mile radius.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Seems strange to me as well. My daughter orders from Skip the Dishes and they run much like others have described. Place order, app or computer tells you order is being prepared, then they have a GPS tracking the delivery vehicle right from the get go. You can visually watch the car taking route X to the pickup location and to your location. Maybe your son should chat with the Manager at Tims?


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

oldjoat said:


> as was stated ... some outlets have no options ... chain head quarter's decision.
> 
> others are chucking the mess out the window
> 
> ...


The situation with driver courtesy and delivery time is addressed by the app and reviews. Do you use these services often? I have used them I'd say a dozen times at this point. I have never had a situation with food being late, cold, or with the drivers being anything but polite. They are worried about their ratings, so if anything they are over-polite.

As far as Traffic snarls, restaurants had delivery before Skip The Dishes was invented. They use Waze and Google maps just like any other delivery driver. But if you are getting food delivered or are a restaurant offering delivery, these have always been factors. It's nothing new. 

EDIT one more note on this, with Skip The Dishes, I can at least monitor my order. With traditional delivery in town, I had no idea why the order might show up at all. They would just give a time range. I can see when my order has processed, when it's picked up, and watch the car drive here. 

Plus, the drivers I have talked to love having this as an extra source of income a few nights a week. I am generally very interested in stuff like this, so I like to ask them if they have time. I do the same with the few Uber drivers we now have in town.

You are discussing what you have heard . I am discussing what my clients in town who are restaurant owners have personally told me. So I am not trying to prove who is right or wrong, only saying there are clearly 2 sides (or more) to this issue.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Just need a few robots.


----------



## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

My family walked into a Boston Pizza the other night and we could barely get in the door to see about getting a table. I had a look around at the table situation and there were probably a half dozen or more tables available yet the waiting area was jammed...huh? Then I had a better look at everybody waiting...they weren't families or even couples...they were dudes with delivery bags.

One by one they got to the hostess desk...the hostess disappeared to the kitchen and eventually came back with their order. It was 10 minutes before we were even up to the hostess desk to let them know that we'd like a table.

There was at least one family I noticed who didn't even bother to enter into the restaurant because of how busy the entrance was yet there were plenty of available tables and we were seated right away after finally making it up to the hostess...that was a $100 meal a restaurant across the street just picked up because they haven't figured out an efficient way to deal with deliveries. I'd have done the same had our daughters not been with us because they had their hearts set on Boston Pizza for supper.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

mhammer said:


> *IF* you're set up for it. I think the issue is that such "services" may not be particularly well-coordinated, not everything works as take-out food, and what has parking nearby for patrons who are interested in an evening of dining out may not be particularly accommodating to drivers who need to park near the entrance, with their 4-ways on, dash in and dash out. The pittance they make only turns into a "living" if they can deliver to a lot of customers in a short period. I think it is worth noting that food establishments that do not currently have a delivery service of their own have probably not thought long and hard about preparing food for takeout. Doggy bags, maybe, but there's a difference between leftovers that the diner is already aware of, and food in a container whose presentation and state is supposed to foster a good reputation.


Now I'm going to feel bad about using Uber Eats.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

torndownunit said:


> The situation with driver courtesy and delivery time is addressed by the app and reviews. Do you use these services often? I have used them I'd say a dozen times at this point. I have never had a situation with food being late, cold, or with the drivers being anything but polite. They are worried about their ratings, so if anything they are over-polite.
> 
> As far as Traffic snarls, restaurants had delivery before Skip The Dishes was invented. They use Waze and Google maps just like any other delivery driver. But if you are getting food delivered or are a restaurant offering delivery, these have always been factors. It's nothing new.
> 
> ...


Same here. I'd never blame the restaurant for cold food, nor would I blame the driver for a mixed up order. But, a lot of people will blame the world for anything not to their liking.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> Same here. I'd never blame the restaurant for cold food, nor would I blame the driver for a mixed up order. But, a lot of people will blame the world for anything not to their liking.


It's a lot of blaming new technology options at times. But in a lot of cases it's actually not new technology. Food delivery or ride sharing isn't anything new. All this is, is an improved delivery method.

And the idea that restaurants are all running from these services just isn't accurate is really the only thing I was pointing out. The ones who have learned to work with the services are quite happy. Others have learned they can't work with the services. These restaurants also likely never offered delivery in the past for the exact same reason they are running into issues now. In that case, they are going to end up unhappy with every aspect probably. I just don't see this as being an issue with the actual services though.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Which is precisely why I said "IF you're set up for it". The delivery and eatery have to be coordinated. When they are, I'm sure it can work like a charm. As was noted by others here, if head office makes the decisions to work with Uber Eats or whatever, that does not mean that _every_ outlet in the region will have the staff complement (or nearby parking, as I noted earlier) to dovetail with it. From my son's experience, his outlet would really prefer to opt out, but they can't, so they find themselves in situations that are incompatible with customer expectations. Corporate makes the decisions, not the outlet manager.

So I should revise my subject title. Not only do delivery services have to get smarter, but so do multi-outlet eateries that wish to coordinate with them.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

torndownunit said:


> All this is, is an improved delivery method.
> 
> .


Nothing improved at all, this is just another added link in the chain of ordering. Before, you would phone the place with delivery, talk to a person there who took your order and told you how long it would take and the order would go into the kitchen. When it was done it would be delivered to you. Same if it was take out where you ordered by phone so it was ready when you got there.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Nothing improved at all, this is just another added link in the chain of ordering. Before, you would phone the place with delivery, talk to a person there who took your order and told you how long it would take and the order would go into the kitchen. When it was done it would be delivered to you. Same if it was take out where you ordered by phone so it was ready when you got there.


Sorry, I find the app much easier. And I like knowing when my order was filled, and the exact delivery time instead of some window that it might arrive. Opening the app is no different than making that call. Except the app is usually more polite to me than the people taking the calls at the restaurant. I can also do take out/pickup and be notified exactly when my order is ready. If you don't think it's an improvement that's fine. For me it is.

Not to mention, there are places in my town only offering delivery now because of the app/ssrvice. As a single guy working long hours, some healthy delivery options when I am occasionally too slammed with work and just want an easy fix is fantastic.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

johnnyshaka said:


> My family walked into a Boston Pizza the other night and we could barely get in the door to see about getting a table. I had a look around at the table situation and there were probably a half dozen or more tables available yet the waiting area was jammed...huh? Then I had a better look at everybody waiting...they weren't families or even couples...they were dudes with delivery bags.
> 
> One by one they got to the hostess desk...the hostess disappeared to the kitchen and eventually came back with their order. It was 10 minutes before we were even up to the hostess desk to let them know that we'd like a table.
> 
> There was at least one family I noticed who didn't even bother to enter into the restaurant because of how busy the entrance was yet there were plenty of available tables and we were seated right away after finally making it up to the hostess...that was a $100 meal a restaurant across the street just picked up because they haven't figured out an efficient way to deal with deliveries. I'd have done the same had our daughters not been with us because they had their hearts set on Boston Pizza for supper.


Don't BP have their own delivery service? They used to out here. The delivery people went through the back and didn't interrupt their customer traffic flow. 


I have a little mom n pop pizza place in my neighborhood so I haven't ordered BP in at least a couple of decades (i.e. well before Uber was around).


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Which is precisely why I said "IF you're set up for it". The delivery and eatery have to be coordinated. When they are, I'm sure it can work like a charm. As was noted by others here, if head office makes the decisions to work with Uber Eats or whatever, that does not mean that _every_ outlet in the region will have the staff complement (or nearby parking, as I noted earlier) to dovetail with it. From my son's experience, his outlet would really prefer to opt out, but they can't, so they find themselves in situations that are incompatible with customer expectations. Corporate makes the decisions, not the outlet manager.
> 
> So I should revise my subject title. Not only do delivery services have to get smarter, but so do multi-outlet eateries that wish to coordinate with them.


This is from the skip the dishes site. From the sounds of it, the restaurant has nothing to do with the delivery driver who I guess are contracted to skip the dishes.
"After the restaurant has confirmed your order, the closest courier will soon be assigned to pick up and deliver your order. Our system accounts for the time restaurants need to prepare the food, so it may wait to assign a courier until the food is almost ready. We work hard to make sure your food is picked up and delivered to you." Seems like he might have a delivery from Timmies and then one from McD's and then one from a choke and puke down the lane. Not like the old days when You ordered from Lotus Gardens or Pizza Hut and they had their own delivery system....still do actually.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

A legitimate question. How many of you here have actually used the apps? Is there anyone here with a restaurant using the service?

There's always been an unfortunate trend on this forum of people posting critical posts about stuff they have no experience with. And not caring why it might be a benefit to other people or why others like it. I don't see anyone posting 'I used it and it's awful'. It's 'this is why it could be awful'.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

torndownunit said:


> How many of you here have actually used the apps? Is there anyone here with a restaurant using the service?


Keep trying! 

Your posts are admirable and please know that I am reading them and paying attention to you (meant seriously...not being facetious).


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> A legitimate question. How many of you here have actually used the apps? Is there anyone here with a restaurant using the service?
> 
> There's always been an unfortunate trend on this forum of people posting critical posts about stuff they have no experience with. And not caring why it might be a benefit to other people or why others like it. I don't see anyone posting 'I used it and it's awful'. It's 'this is why it could be awful'.


I don't use the apps, but I have a family member who works in an establishment that uses them and the general consensus among her co-workers in reference to these services is not a good one. I have no need for a third party delivery service for restaurant food and therefore have no complaints about their service.


----------



## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

The only time I eat out is when I sneak a couple of peas when I am picking dinner form our gardens.

The only time I order in is when the wife asks me what she should pick from the gardens. B#(*


----------



## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

High/Deaf said:


> Don't BP have their own delivery service? They used to out here. The delivery people went through the back and didn't interrupt their customer traffic flow.


I know they used to and they still may but they are listed on the Skip The Dishes website so they could be doing both in-house delivery and the 3rd party stuff.



High/Deaf said:


> I have a little mom n pop pizza place in my neighborhood so I haven't ordered BP in at least a couple of decades (i.e. well before Uber was around).


We go to BP primarily for the kids because they love "bugs 'n' cheese " (essentially noodles in Alfredo sauce) but we like their pizza as well. But if I'm going to order pizza without input from the kids we'll order from somewhere else.


----------



## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

torndownunit said:


> A legitimate question. How many of you here have actually used the apps? Is there anyone here with a restaurant using the service?
> 
> There's always been an unfortunate trend on this forum of people posting critical posts about stuff they have no experience with. And not caring why it might be a benefit to other people or why others like it. I don't see anyone posting 'I used it and it's awful'. It's 'this is why it could be awful'.


I haven't used any of the apps in question and to be honest I'm not sure I really have a need for them.

My beef wasn't with the apps, the companies, or the drivers...my beef was about the experience as a customer trying to dine-in at a restaurant and how my experience has changed. Not all restaurants have managed the shift well and hopefully those that haven't will continue to try and "fix" things because as it stands right now there are several "local to me" places that won't be seeing my family or I for a few months, if ever, again. Luckily we have plenty of options close by to choose from so we won't starve.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

torndownunit said:


> A legitimate question. How many of you here have actually used the apps? Is there anyone here with a restaurant using the service?
> 
> There's always been an unfortunate trend on this forum of people posting critical posts about stuff they have no experience with. And not caring why it might be a benefit to other people or why others like it. I don't see anyone posting 'I used it and it's awful'. It's 'this is why it could be awful'.


A very fair question. Personally, I only order food from one Chinese take-out place near us, that have their own drivers. And that's only because my wife likes their mushroom foo yung. So I have no direct personal experience, and don't expect to have any in the future (no smartphone or desire to own one). What started the thread off, however, was my son's exasperation with the unrealistic expectations of folks using the apps to get things from his establishment. That includes drivers coming in for things that they either don't stock or ran out of, and people who send a coworker over to pick up an order that simply can't be prepared in the time-frame they think.

So maybe the blame needs to get spread a little further to not only the food services and apps, but the end-users themselves.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

johnnyshaka said:


> I haven't used any of the apps in question and to be honest I'm not sure I really have a need for them.
> 
> My beef wasn't with the apps, the companies, or the drivers...my beef was about the experience as a customer trying to dine-in at a restaurant and how my experience has changed. Not all restaurants have managed the shift well and hopefully those that haven't will continue to try and "fix" things because as it stands right now there are several "local to me" places that won't be seeing my family or I for a few months, if ever, again. Luckily we have plenty of options close by to choose from so we won't starve.


That's a fair point of course and a good discussion.


mhammer said:


> A very fair question. Personally, I only order food from one Chinese take-out place near us, that have their own drivers. And that's only because my wife likes their mushroom foo yung. So I have no direct personal experience, and don't expect to have any in the future (no smartphone or desire to own one). What started the thread off, however, was my son's exasperation with the unrealistic expectations of folks using the apps to get things from his establishment. That includes drivers coming in for things that they either don't stock or ran out of, and people who send a coworker over to pick up an order that simply can't be prepared in the time-frame they think.
> 
> So maybe the blame needs to get spread a little further to not only the food services and apps, but the end-users themselves.


My local Starbucks is as utterly crammed basically all day. You can't get a seat in it anytime of day, and the drive-thru is crammed. So I honestly don't notice a difference with that location since skip the dishes came to town. The service hasn't changed. Starbucks has always been a zoo. They also employ a crazy amount of people. So it SEEMS like not only should they be able to address orders from a system that allows for advanced orders, but that it might actually help in some regard for a location used to getting slammed with orders of 20 coffees at a time from people on work breaks. It's a shame your son's locations management hasn't stepped up. I am pretty sure the one here has.

I have personally never used an app for something like Starbucks delivery. And I don't think all types of restaurants even suit these apps. But hopefully they work out the growing pains.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

torndownunit said:


> My local Starbucks is as utterly crammed basically all day. You can't get a seat in it anytime of day, and the drive-thru is crammed. So I honestly don't notice a difference with that location since skip the dishes came to town. The service hasn't changed. Starbucks has always been a zoo. They also employ a crazy amount of people. So it SEEMS like not only should they be able to address orders from a system that allows for advanced orders, but that it might actually help in some regard for a location used to getting slammed with orders of 20 coffees at a time from people on work breaks. It's a shame your son's locations management hasn't stepped up. I am pretty sure the one here has.


It's a very different context, from his description, and HQ has simply assumed that all locations are identical to the one you describe. This one does enough business that they make money. But from his description, there's plenty of downtime, and empty tables, until a cruise ship docks. He has enough coworkers that when he needs someone to cover a shift for him, there are _some_ choices. But he has never conveyed that being down one man is but a small dent in staff, or that the list of folks to cover a shift for him is very long. If he was on Spring Garden Road, it might be just like the one you describe. But he's on Barrington, between the offices, and they close at suppertime. Google Maps If you look at it, "packed" and "a zoo" does not seem to capture the ambiance.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

torndownunit said:


> I have never had a situation with food being late, cold, or with the drivers
> 
> You are discussing what you have heard . So I am not trying to prove who is right or wrong, only saying there are clearly 2 sides (or more) to this issue.


 if ya like the app, use it.

CTV 6 PM news had a story on skip the dishes in Ottawa a few weeks back ... live ... 
several restaurant owners saying the food was delivered late / cold / etc ... so not hear say .... 
they tried it and it wasn't worth the effort for them.

Ottawa is world famous for tearing up major streets for 1/2 year or more , while the shops end up going belly up because customers can't get to them anymore.
then tear up the surrounding streets a few months later .
streets that are open today are closed for construction tomorrow.... and they are trying to lower all the speed limits in town to 40Km
oh, and we have bike lanes across the front of the best restaurants down town ... no place for parking or the drivers to pick up the orders.
( unless they want a ticket)
last "piano bar" in the region just closed up shop last week.

one shop on Bank street had a small alley behind it ( used to to be for garbage pickup trucks ) ... 
the delivery drivers would zip in , pick up their orders and zip out (5-10 mins max) ... 
about 30% of the time , they had a ticket slipped under their wiper blade.

other cities may be OK , but Ottawa is slowly squeezing vehicles out of the city core , and the shops are dying a slow death.

note : your city / village mileage may vary.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

mhammer said:


> It's a very different context, from his description, and HQ has simply assumed that all locations are identical to the one you describe. This one does enough business that they make money. But from his description, there's plenty of downtime, and empty tables, until a cruise ship docks. He has enough coworkers that when he needs someone to cover a shift for him, there are _some_ choices. But he has never conveyed that being down one man is but a small dent in staff, or that the list of folks to cover a shift for him is very long. If he was on Spring Garden Road, it might be just like the one you describe. But he's on Barrington, between the offices, and they close at suppertime. Google Maps If you look at it, "packed" and "a zoo" does not seem to capture the ambiance.


So just for the sake of discussion because this stuff honestly just interests me, if there is downtime like that this, how is an advanced ordering system such a hinderance? The orders are paid for, a driver is just picking them up. And the delivery time to the customer doesn't calculate until the location has listed the order as processed. So it's really just an advanced customer order, similar to an order being phoned in (except with no payment transaction at the store) . 

In my line of work my clients always ask me tech questions, even though I am getting older myself and getting to the point where I won't be the one to ask lol. Recommendations for tech for their business etc. I like to pass on info I hear. So far the businesses I deal with who use skip the dishes are happy. So I am always interested in other info.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

oldjoat said:


> if ya like the app, use it.
> 
> CTV 6 PM news had a story on skip the dishes in Ottawa a few weeks back ... live ...
> several restaurant owners saying the food was delivered late / cold / etc ... so not hear say ....
> ...


So this definitely sounds like a situational issue? If these restaurants offer their own pickup and delivery service, they will have the exact same issues due to the exact same problems from the sound of it? Eg a skip the dishes driver picking up an order is no different than a customer picking up an order. They will both get ticketed.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

no , they had problems with the execution of the "service" ... ( teething problems ?)
they were not happy with it and were planning to go back to their own in-house delivery, or just drop delivery completely.

the road construction chaos is an Ottawa thing .... "there's too much road around all these potholes, let's tear up what's left""


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

oldjoat said:


> no , they had problems with the execution of the "service" ... ( teething problems ?)
> they were not happy with it and were planning to go back to their own in-house delivery, or just drop delivery completely.
> 
> the road construction chaos is an Ottawa thing .... "there's too much road around all these potholes, let's tear up what's left""


There's an interesting scenario in my town where some places are using skip the dishes and their own delivery. I think it's a scenario where they get so busy that it's a way to have extra drivers while not hiring more. I know one of lace that has 6 drivers on a weekend still, but also uses skip the dishes. 

The thing is their own delivery drivers get lost coming here and are kind of rude. Funny enough, they had to give me 2 free pizzas in the past due to that. I love their pizza though they make good on the errors, so I go back lol. When they got skip the dishes and I started using that instead (same price either way) , the service has been great since and the orders get here quicker.

I guess we will see what happens as my area grows more though and there are more drivers. See if the service keeps up.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

if it is working for them , all the better ... more people making some money.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

As he presents it to me, the issue is people who order stuff that this particular outlet doesn't carry, and occasionally send in an order for pickup with insufficient time allotted to prepare it. I'm just relaying his frustrations. Do customers necessarily wait for the feedback in the system that tells them "you can't get that here", or wait to learn that their order is actually ready? Sometimes, no. It's not so much a failure of the app, as a failure of the customer. Although in the case of


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

mhammer said:


> My younger son works at a Starbucks in downtown Halifax. He was complaining to us yesterday about the various food delivery services - Uber Eats, Skip the Dishes, et al - that have little to no coordination with the various eateries people are expecting to get orders from. His outlet has a fairly modest staff, that serves people who walk in the door, whether from nearby offices or from cruise ships that pulled into town.. They do NOT have a take-out window like Wendy's or McDonald's. And yet, people show up, mere minutes after typing stuff, expecting that someone was waiting with baited breath to prepare whatever showed up on a screen, instead of serving the person in front of them. He noted that there is zero coordination with such delivery services, and if something is either not stocked at all at that location or it is and they have simply run out, there is no indication to the person ordering. And yet, drivers show up expecting that it will be ready. He described a guy who strolled in the other day, some three minutes after placing an order for a dozen complicated coffees for the office, complaining that it wasn't ready, even though if he had placed the order as a walk-in, he would likely have to wait at least 5 minutes for a single coffee with just the right foam and crap sprinkled on top. And, as my son noted, when the driver has to leave empty-handed, their pay probably reflects that, even though they're still shelling out for the gas and wasting their time.
> 
> If there is coordination between the online "service" and the corresponding eatery, that would be fine, but it seems that such coordination doesn't exist, even though these online things appear to be something like a universal delivery service.



There is coordination, I see it all the time. So the problem here is your son's work, not the delivery services. And those drivers aren't placing the orders, customers are.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Milkman said:


> The tips ALL go to the delivery service. Those preparing the orders suck wind.


Who tips for takeout?


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

mhammer said:


> I think it is worth noting that food establishments that do not currently have a delivery service of their own have probably not thought long and hard about preparing food for takeout.



Huh???

Taco Hell doesn't deliver, and you don't think they've thought about preparing food for takeout? How about Wendy's? Burger King? McDonalds? Subway?


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

colchar said:


> Who tips for takeout?


In many restaurants, tips are shared between kitchen staff and servers.

They get no tips when using these services.


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

My only beef with skip the dishes is they dont tell you your order will take 4 hours until after you pay. Once you place your order a check should be conducted to determine ETA. If you don't like the ETA you can opt out. If i call a pizza place and they say 2 hours, i call somewhere else.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Milkman said:


> In many restaurants, tips are shared between kitchen staff and servers.
> 
> They get no tips when using these services.



They get no tips from normal takeout anyway. If I get takeout from Swiss Chalet, I don't tip - not that I eat there any more as I am boycotting all restaurants owned by Recipe International (for personal reasons, not political ones).


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

oldjoat said:


> if it is working for them , all the better ... more people making some money.


Really ? and with the increased take out the restaurant has to hire less table wait staff, less bartenders ,dishwashers, buss boys, etc. It all comes down to disposable income and that is what is being spent. Now it is spent at home instead of in the restaurant. Disposable income rates have not changed.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

colchar said:


> Huh???
> 
> Taco Hell doesn't deliver, and you don't think they've thought about preparing food for takeout? How about Wendy's? Burger King? McDonalds? Subway?


They DO have take-out windows, and staff whose duties are explicitly to deal with take-out window orders. Admittedly, I expressed it in a little too general and clumsy a fashion, but I was thinking in terms of restaurants that not only have no delivery service, but are also not set up for take-out, whether via a special "window", or over the counter.

When I brought up this discussion with my other son, his frustration was with being an on-site customer who can't get served because something came in over the phone/screen. It's comparable to waiting for service in any other retail outlet while the sales clerk stays on the phone with a_ potential _customer making inquiries, while an actual customer stands waiting. Of course, the difference is usually that people enter a restaurant hungry, while not many enter a shoe or clothing store shoeless and pantless, or a music store in the middle of a solo.

Again, if one is going to play the game of being a take-out food establishment, play by the rules, and don't pretend you're something you're not. Have _at least_ enough food-preparation staff to contend with a potentially full house, and don't take on phone-in orders on top of that if you don't have the staff or inventory for it.


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Great paying job. Should be able to buy a house and pay it off ? 



$36.00 for four hours work ,less fuel, wear and tear on vehicle, increased insurance rate. Great gig.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

simple answer is ... if it ain't worth it for you , you don't do it .
if you can actually make money , do it *if you want to* .
no one puts a gun to this person's head to deliver for (STD)

one shop would occasionally tell the employees to come in on Saturday mornings and push thru rush jobs (big $$$$$ for the owner)
he paid overtime , but most employees usually had other plans with their families

it got to the point he'd drop the bomb regularly on fridays as people picked up their cheques .
the employees got totally sick of it and decided Saturdays were off limits.
you guessed it ... a big client placed an order and no one showed up one Saturday , job wasn't done .

owner gave the monday morning ultimatum " my way or the highway" ... 5 of 7 left on the spot and went to the labour board with a lawyer ...
many $$$$ later for severance and a lecture about destructive dismissal laws , he had to rehire most of them.... at higher rates than before.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

colchar said:


> Who tips for takeout?


I do for one. I've dated a lot of waitresses, servers and kitchen staff and know a lot. Tips help. If I go to pick up a pizza I tip. Same if I got to say Mr. Mikes and get something for take out. Can't see why not.


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

I have the best app ever for food and it happens to be the oldest ! 

I yell I`m hungry and the wife brings me food ! 

I skip the dishes also, the wife does them !

I like the older apps way better then all the nonsense out there these days.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Frenchy99 said:


> I have the best app ever for food and it happens to be the oldest !
> 
> I yell I`m hungry and the wife brings me food !
> 
> ...


The older "apps" will slap you upside the head sometimes, make you do your own cooking and cleaning and laundry and you sleep on the couch......and then they take the house.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

hmmm... so you're saying Skip the Dishes and Apps and hire a maid ... it's cheaper in the long run.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> hmmm... so you're saying Skip the Dishes and Apps and hire a maid ... it's cheaper in the long run.


Well, depending on the age of the maid, yes.








does she need to know how to cook? Nope.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

We must live in a different age. We've never even had a pizza delivered to our home, never used a food delivery app, or a ride share for any reason. Once a week or so we go out to a locally owned mom'n'pop restaurant or drive-in burger joint, rarely a chain, but otherwise we prepare our own meals. Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to the concept of food delivery, I just don't see how I would benefit from it.

We sometimes deliver food to a local pick-up spot for the food bank.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I live in a relatively small city (under 100k pop). It's not a big deal for me to drive across town or stop on the way home to pick up food.

I rarely drink so that doesn't get in my way and I have a nice car that I enjoy driving.

I don't need people to bring food to my door yet.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Echoing McLuhan's declaration that "the medium is the message", the very notion of unshared (i.e., it's not a shared family phone, but a personal object) "smart" phones, and delivery apps, is that:
a) cooking skills are unnecessary
b) exercise (i.e., going somewhere) is unnecessary
c) sociability is unnecessary
d) isolation = "convenience"

Good luck with the future, folks.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

so the women will order "take out" ... no need to date .. there will be an app for that.

the men have always had the home delivery option ... if you have money .

the world will continue.... ( but maybe not the family as we know it)


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

oldjoat said:


> hmmm... so you're saying Skip the Dishes and Apps and hire a maid ... it's cheaper in the long run.


Hell yaa!


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Frenchy99 said:


> Hell yaa!


and it saves your hearing too.


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

I can count the times my father brought us out to a restaurant on one hand growing up. It was just not done back then.

I guess It became second nature for me. Plus being a big eater, having lunch at McDonald's is a $30 lunch and it's not even good !

My wife cooks and I cook... she does the dishes . That's the way to do it. All these apps and services are great for elderly people with reduced mobility but I'm not part of those yet! I don't get why youngings use it. .. laziness. ..


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

wife cooked , I cooked ... dog did the dishes ( and never complained ) .... then a quick round in the sink and to the drying board.

ol' man took us kids to the burger joint twice a year. ( summer time) ... like most folks back then.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Now that I'm home full time, most of what we eat is something I've made from scratch. Once in a while I might pick up a dinner-for-one plate from the local shawarma place (which generally lasts us for several meals sharing the plate - I don't know who the heck can eat all of that themselves, but I take it we do not share waist sizes.), or we'll go out for Thai food or pho, but that's maybe once a month. It's rare that anything we might eat out or bring in is something I could prepare myself.

Preparation of meals from scratch reduces our food bill, our salt/sodium and fat consumption, my sugar intake, and our non-recyclable garbage. It does cut into my soldering and playing time, though.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

There were only two places in town that delivered when I was a kid, both Chinese food, and we lived too far out of town for delivery. But, usually 4 or 5 times a month we'd have Chinese food or burgers. Eat in or take out. Sometimes ice cream from the Dairy Queen after it opened. This was in the 50's. Where I lived a lot of people did that back then.....both townies and country. Now, I usually eat out 2 or 3 times a week. Works out cheaper for me and possibly healthier. And it's a lot less boring. No delivery of any kind tho. If I want a pizza and I'm coming home I get off the bus, walk the 50 or so feet and order a pizza, wait 10 or so minutes and walk my pizza the 2 blocks home. It's a small place and a large 3 topping is $15 including tip.....I can't make it that cheap. Not too sure about the elderly with "reduced mobility" issues tho, (I'm sorta there) I see a lot of them out and about. About the only reason I can see for maybe using a food delivery service, if you are mobile, is if you have limited cooking and storage space and live in a completely residential area.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Heck, I'm still trying to figure out 20 car line-ups at drive-thru's. How is that more efficient or convenient? How is it not harmful to the environment?


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> Heck, I'm still trying to figure out 20 car line-ups at drive-thru's. How is that more efficient or convenient? How is it not harmful to the environment?


Not only that.

How freaking lazy have we become?

As far as I'm concerned, those willing to get their assets out of their SUVs and walk up to the counter should get preferential service.


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

allthumbs56 said:


> Heck, I'm still trying to figure out 20 car line-ups at drive-thru's. How is that more efficient or convenient? How is it not harmful to the environment?


 Yes and the ones in them lines are the ones complaining about the environment being ruined for their children.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

I used to drive by a Timms everyday going to work and the line up at that time of day was more than a block long......with no on at the inside counter. You could park your car, go in and get your coffee and doughnut and be gone by the time the line up had moved two cars. At times the line up would go into the intersection which would screw things up when the light changed.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> Heck, I'm still trying to figure out 20 car line-ups at drive-thru's. How is that more efficient or convenient? How is it not harmful to the environment?


Check the new law they just passed in Minneapolis, no more new drive-thrus. City of Minneapolis Bans Drive-Thrus to Increase Safety and Reduce Pollution
As well as all the accidents, congestion, and pollution, they are a top destination for drunk drivers.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

allthumbs56 said:


> Heck, I'm still trying to figure out 20 car line-ups at drive-thru's.


a lot of 300 lb heffers ordering for the "staff at work " , and hides the fact they need a mobility scooter .... 



jb welder said:


> they are a top destination for drunk drivers


 then put a cop at the end to wait for them ...
they do it to nail the "cell phone" drive thru drivers on Merivale road


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Only in Vancouver and it's a drive thru liquor store. The one in Vernon was just as bad, especially in the summer when the line up was cars and trucks pulling boat trailers on the way to Okanagan Lake.








and when they blow that final trumpet


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Yeah, I totally don't understand waiting in a drive through just to get a coffee.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

the drive thru was designed just to order coffee and a quick snack ... dash and go 

but you get people ordering for the whole office / family supper / etc 

but the ones that kill me , are the ones that yack in line till they get to the order desk 
then turn around to the friend and say "what are you getting? don't know, what are you getting? "
finally decide and order , yack with the clerk , get told their total ... then open their duffel bag purse and start searching the bottom for their wallet.
pull out the plastic and tap / swipe , have it rejected 4 times , then change cards / repeat / then finally break out the cash to pay.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> and when they blow that final trumpet


Well, if you can use one to get married, you oughtta be able to get buried.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Pretty much the only time I roll down my window to do business is when crossing customs or at the car wash.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

oldjoat said:


> but the ones that kill me , are the ones that yack in line till they get to the order desk
> then turn around to the friend and say "what are you getting? don't know, what are you getting? "
> finally decide and order , yack with the clerk , get told their total ... then open their duffel bag purse and start searching the bottom for their wallet.
> pull out the plastic and tap / swipe , have it rejected 4 times , then change cards / repeat / then finally break out the cash to pay.


Those idiots do the same at the toll booth before you cross customs in Detroit and Port Huron. Ten cars in front of you all stopping to pay, big sign indicating how much, and you still seem confused and don’t have the money ready?

Meh, it explains a lot about the behavior of some drivers on the highway.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

guess they actually " live in the moment"


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Almost makes sense in cities. Faster than a car, no need to worry about parking, low cost to delivery person.








and "environmentally friendly".


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

except when the delivery is 10 miles across town.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Pretty much the only time I roll down my window to do business is when crossing customs or at the car wash.


Crossing customs I can understand, but I would think that you roll the windows _*up*_ at a car wash, rather than *down*. Or do car washes in your neck of the woods do things a little "differently"? 

And am I the only one here who finds it near impossible to use a drive-through ATM without having to open the damn car door to use it? The relative height of car windows and ATM touchscreens and slots makes it near impossible to do what you have to do while remaining seated and simply operating through your car window. Or is it the case that my mistake is simply not owning an SUV? I just find it easier and more convenient to park, walk over to the bank, and do things indoors.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Crossing customs I can understand, but I would think that you roll the windows _*up*_ at a car wash, rather than *down*. Or do car washes in your neck of the woods do things a little "differently"?
> 
> And am I the only one here who finds it near impossible to use a drive-through ATM without having to open the damn car door to use it? The relative height of car windows and ATM touchscreens and slots makes it near impossible to do what you have to do while remaining seated and simply operating through your car window. Or is it the case that my mistake is simply not owning an SUV? I just find it easier and more convenient to park, walk over to the bank, and do things indoors.



I like giving the interior a good wash and I take my shirt off and get my pits done at the same time.

(Actually I just roll them down to input my code)


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I like giving the interior a good wash and I take my shirt off and get my pits done at the same time.
> 
> (Actually I just roll them down to input my code)


I liked your first answer better - I'm always in favour of multi-tasking


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

next time , just use the sun roof .


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> except when the delivery is 10 miles across town.


It's 10 miles across town if you use the streets like you would have to do in a car. Bikes don't need to keep to the streets. There's back alleys, across parks etc. and like bike couriers, bike delivery people don't usually obey traffic rules and speed limits. Makes it good in the city where you can go the wrong way on one way streets for example. And, parking is not a problem. It's not perfect but it seems to work in a lot of places.


----------



## Guest (Aug 15, 2019)




----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Crossing customs I can understand, but I would think that you roll the windows _*up*_ at a car wash, rather than *down*. Or do car washes in your neck of the woods do things a little "differently"?
> 
> And am I the only one here who finds it near impossible to use a drive-through ATM without having to open the damn car door to use it? The relative height of car windows and ATM touchscreens and slots makes it near impossible to do what you have to do while remaining seated and simply operating through your car window. Or is it the case that my mistake is simply not owning an SUV? I just find it easier and more convenient to park, walk over to the bank, and do things indoors.


It's usually faster too. And if you think using a drive thru bank is fun in your car, try doing it with a motorcycle.....MacDonalds, A&W etc. are worse.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Pretty much the only time I roll down my window to do business is when crossing customs or at the car wash.


Last time I used a drive thru car wash it left the box of the pick up dirtier than before I started.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

oldjoat said:


> if ya like the app, use it.
> 
> CTV 6 PM news had a story on skip the dishes in Ottawa a few weeks back ... live ...
> several restaurant owners saying the food was delivered late / cold / etc ... so not hear say ....
> ...


This is true. The mayor hates, absolutely hates automobiles. Elgin Street which has a high number of restaurants is closed. Two restaurants have gone belly up so far. When the street re-opens in a year, the mayor has decided to eliminate all parking and convert the former parking lanes to bike lines. The best way for the remaining restaurants to survive will be through the delivery apps. As to where they drivers will be able to stop to pickup the order, I have no idea.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Ottawa sounds like edmonton in a lot of respects. Places I wouldn't want to visit let alone live but don't they have parking lots in the area or are people just too lazy to walk a block or two? Removing street parking is a dumb idea but it shouldn't affect that many customers.


----------



## Guest (Aug 15, 2019)

1SweetRide said:


> As to where the drivers will be able to stop to pickup the order, I have no idea.


And delivery trucks to supply them.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

laristotle said:


> And delivery trucks to supply them.


The mayor has done this to other major roads downtown. The delivery trucks stop in the only lane and traffic behind them has to wait or go around.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Electraglide said:


> Ottawa sounds like edmonton in a lot of respects. Places I wouldn't want to visit let alone live but don't they have parking lots in the area or are people just too lazy to walk a block or two? Removing street parking is a dumb idea but it shouldn't affect that many customers.


His idiotic philosophy is if he makes life difficult enough for motorists, they'll take his deficit running, useless bus system. He's already filled in about 90% of the bus stops so that traffic now has to wait behind every bus, at every single stop.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> don't they have parking lots in the area


good question for the mayor and city council 

read my lips .... NO parking period , just bike / peds and lattes .... what's a parking lot ? don't exist except for the under ground one at city hall.
(for the people at city hall of course)

look up "Sparks Street" 
THE most visited spot in Ottawa / best shops / best restaurants /best of the best/ then they turned it into a pedestrian mall ....
2 years later it was ( and still is) a waste land.

delivery trucks? ... have them deliver via sherpas . 
no more loading zones ... strictly bike lanes now.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> good question for the mayor and city council
> 
> read my lips .... NO parking period , just bike / peds and lattes .... what's a parking lot ? don't exist except for the under ground one at city hall.
> (for the people at city hall of course)
> ...


Like I said, glad I don't live there. I guess if there is no parking lots people who work there must take public transit.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

or just live downtown within walking distance.

down town has "no street parking" between 7am and 930 am .... and 300pm to 530 pm ... strictly ticket and instant tow.

core is packed from 8-5 ... then becomes a ghost town as people escape from it as soon as they can.
"Ottawa , a nice place to leave" should be the next slogan for the city signs.


----------



## Guest (Aug 15, 2019)

1SweetRide said:


> He's already filled in about 90% of the bus stops so that traffic now has to wait behind every bus, at every single stop.


And the next bus has to wait behind all of them?


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

oldjoat said:


> good question for the mayor and city council
> 
> read my lips .... NO parking period , just bike / peds and lattes .... what's a parking lot ? don't exist except for the under ground one at city hall.
> (for the people at city hall of course)
> ...


Sparks was a pedestrian mall for well over 50 years. We moved away in 1965, and it was already a mall by that time. It originally had fountains, but then some damn fool poured a box of laundry detergent into one of them, and the city or NCC put the kybosh on fountains. It used to be a location you'd go to for shopping (Marcos and others will surely remember the Treble Clef, the best damn music store in the city for years, as well as a Zellers and even a W.H. Smith bookstore), but then stores started moving out to the suburbs, and people started judging shopability in terms of parking rather than streetcars or busing. The city manager, mayor, and various departments-no-mayor-interacts-with-enough, share some minimal responsibility, but you can't blame them for where and how people choose to live in a city that keeps growing and moving outwards. For me, it's not what can be done to "save" Sparks Street, but much like 24 Sussex, it may be time to simply say goodbye to the Sparks we know and loved, and let it turn into office space, where towers can cough up more municial tax money.

Should _any_ city work towards creating more downtown parking? Good question. There certainly needs to be "enough" parking downtown, since there will always be people driving to a meeting, tourists, and such, but does there need to be so much that it _encourages_ automobile use in the downtown core? There is a fine line between when someone is serving a need, and when they are encouraging a dependency. A number of large cities are implementing strategies to discourage and reduce auto use in the city center. I won't say they are all doing it just right, but clearly they are responding to what they view as a problem: congestion, and the high cost of serving it, rather than deterring it.

Eateries that elect to attach themselves to delivery services, but whose pre-delivery history is with a downtown walk-in crowd, will be understandably reluctant to relocate, since their location is part of their brand. But I imagine many others, freed up from the burden and cost of having to provide space, tables, and staff to serve a walk-in crowd, will be happy to situate themselves away from the city core, to a location where delivery vehicles can easily access. It's not a future I personally look forward to, but the downtown infrastructure endures a LOT of wear and tear, and requires serious servicing and repair/replacement. Eateries will simply have to set up shop elsewhere, or adjust their expectations.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

laristotle said:


> And the next bus has to wait behind all of them?


Yes but they don't care. They're being paid to sit in traffic while the rest of us are trying to get home to our loved ones. He's created a huge mess in my neighbourhood. We're just behind that major route and cars speed like crazy through our quiet residential streets trying to beat the buses to the next light. This happened a few house down from us. Third one in as many weeks.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

no , the other way round .... buses have the right of way in Ottawa ... 
it's now the buses that stop at every corner that impede traffic.
Oh and all traffic lights are synchronized to make you stop at every intersection ... on purpose .... "traffic calming measures".
we have grid lock intentionally forced upon us .

Sparks was a place you could drive to , park on and go inside an establishment.
eliminating the parking/easy access killed it , tearing it up and using paving blocks to mall it just put the final nails in the coffin.
business owners were forced to move or go belly up trying to stay.

don't know of anyone wanting to go out for a nice evening , have to park 4-5 blocks away , walk there and back at night.
or take a taxi and be dropped off 2 blocks away .
so the places died one by one , or moved to where they still had "customer parking"

now , the only people to frequent it are the silly servants on lunch break ... 
then they scurry home at quitting time, leaving a desolate barren waste land after 5 PM

Elgin will suffer the same fate and the city will scratch its head and wonder what happened .... why is the core dying ?


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

oldjoat said:


> no , the other way round .... buses have the right of way in Ottawa ...
> it's now the buses that stop at every corner that impede traffic.
> Oh and all traffic lights are synchronized to make you stop at every intersection ... on purpose .... "traffic calming measures".
> we have grid lock intentionally forced upon us .
> ...


At least do what I do, keep writing to the mayor and the councillors. Maybe someday it will make a difference. He keeps getting voted in though.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

oldjoat said:


> good question for the mayor and city council
> 
> read my lips .... NO parking period , just bike / peds and lattes .... what's a parking lot ? don't exist except for the under ground one at city hall.
> (for the people at city hall of course)
> ...


I'm guessing that the highest priority is given to the sector with the highest employment. Government servicing government is a mind-blowing process, I'm sure.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

he has a BIG circular file for letters from us ...
the "core" keeps screaming bikes and pedestrians only. 

personally I agree 100% .... for a 10 block radius around the Parliament buildings .... no vehicles at all (except the new LRT)

no parking / buses / taxis / trucks / the whole shebang .... then build a 20 foot wall around the area and seal all exits .
they can walk / bike to their hearts content ... but absolutely no deliveries from out side the wall except on the LRT system.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

oldjoat said:


> he has a BIG circular file for letters from us ...
> the "core" keeps screaming bikes and pedestrians only.
> 
> personally I agree 100% .... for a 10 block radius around the Parliament buildings .... no vehicles at all (except the new LRT)
> ...


Have you been watching The Colony?


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

no , but it sure sounds like the way to go to solve this mess .

that , or LIMIT the number of "people" working downtown and spread them around and into the other regions .
it would eliminate the congestion , reduce commute times and make the whole city a lot more friendly .

while were at it , because there are fewer vehicles in the core now .... lets separate the bikes from the roads and pedestrians.
every north sidewalk and east sidewalk in the core becomes a bike only lane
the south and west are pedestrians only ...

bikes stop at all intersections with bike signal lights sync'd to the traffic flow ones.

Mtrl has the right idea when it comes to bikes ...
let 'em use the roads but ticket the f*ck out of 'em if they break the rules of the road.
passing on the inside/ running red lights/ running stop signs/ failing to signal/driving the wrong way / riding on the sidewalks.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

oldjoat said:


> no , but it sure sounds like the way to go to solve this mess .
> 
> that , or LIMIT the number of "people" working downtown and spread them around and into the other regions .
> it would eliminate the congestion , reduce commute times and make the whole city a lot more friendly .
> ...


This thread's gone way off topic but it's more interesting lol. Did I mention that Wellington Street has the middle of the lane marked off for cyclists? Once I had to follow an old guy moving slower than a jogger for a few kms. Huge line of traffic behind me. And, cyclists that pass you on the right even when you're in the right turn lane, signalling a right hand turn? Arses.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

1SweetRide said:


> Once I had to follow an old guy moving slower than a jogger for a few kms. Huge line of traffic behind me


skip the dishes delivery cyclist ?


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

1SweetRide said:


> This thread's gone way off topic but it's more interesting lol. Did I mention that Wellington Street has the middle of the lane marked off for cyclists? Once I had to follow an old guy moving slower than a jogger for a few kms. Huge line of traffic behind me. And, cyclists that pass you on the right even when you're in the right turn lane, signalling a right hand turn? Arses.


What? You didn't look on your smart phone while driving and google a map on how to go around him. No, wait, you don't use those things do you.....smart guy. Ok, that's another thread anyway.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Ottawa ... voted the most f*cked up town (2017) due to haphazard road and LRT construction ... the apps gave up and said to expect 30 -45 minutes delays no matter where you were headed.
where else do you have 5 bridges in the downtown area and 2 are either closed or under construction at all times ? 

even if there was a alternate route around him , it would be just as slow with the traffic light situation.

sorta like the "you are HERE and doomed" signs.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I take it you haven't been to Montreal lately. I had lunch with some friends there last week, and my summary comment was "Montreal will be a really nice city when they finally finish building it."


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

commercials on the french stations have Mtrl saying "come and visit , we've changed" 
they never tell you it was for the worse.

last time thru it was at 120KPH , south shore and motored down thru NB to NS.
8 Pm , sun at my back and open road ahead.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

one thing they could always do , was deliver pizza across town within 30 mins or less....
of course they had synchronized lights east/west and North /South

heck , even a small town like Hamilton figured it out years ago.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

oldjoat said:


> .... then build a 20 foot wall around the area and seal all exits .


................... and then suck out the oxygen?


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

no , they do that to themselves ....

meant , they can then have it all to themselves ... no one allowed in or out unless by "PT"
see how long they last without "the real world" supplying them .
everything via "public transit" or they can't bring it inside.


----------



## Guest (Aug 15, 2019)

oldjoat said:


> traffic lights are synchronized to make you stop at every intersection


Idiots. Cars spew more crap into the air per mile that way.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

and your point is ? (  )
I'm afraid they don't understand the concept .

they bought some electric buses but they kept running out of juice along the routes and had to be towed back for recharging overnight.

city also says "they don't make snow tires for buses"
they bought articulated buses ( last section has the driving wheels ) ... like pushing a snake uphill with a stick


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mhammer said:


> I take it you haven't been to Montreal lately. I had lunch with some friends there last week, and my summary comment was "Montreal will be a really nice city when they finally finish building it."


Or edmonton unless they have a lot of that mess cleared up. Was it last year that a bridge warped as they were building it. I don't think they have the downtown area cleared up yet.
They seem to get snow tires for buses here and BC and both Van and here have articulated buses and they're a lot better than "pushing a snake with a stick".


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

1SweetRide said:


> This thread's gone way off topic


I think we're closing in on the part about "tied an onion to my belt", or maybe we're even beyond that.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> They seem to get snow tires for buses here and BC


and the articulated ones then have some traction ... here we don't. 

back to the "delivery" problems


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)




----------

