# Versatile guitars?



## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

Keeping in mind budget restrictions, are the guitars with both humbucker and single coil (like the Highway 1) a *good* investment? Can you really cover pretty much all styles? Or is it better to have one with all single coils and one with humbuckers?

All single coils with one of them "stacked" humbucker?

What are some of the best affordable guitars in that style?


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

You can play any music style with any guitar. There used to be an old jazz player back int he 80s, who jazzed on pointy Jacksons. The dude from Overkill thrashed using a S/S/S Strat. Its the player that needs to be versitile, the guitar is mearly a tool. Just get the guitar you feel comfortable with..............


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

another option - I picked up an Eric Clapton circuit board from Axe awhile ago for, I think it was, $99.
Big mid boost for the Strat, makes it extremely versatile.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

You could also look at a guitar with 2 humbuckers and coil tapping. ie) PRS

You get the humbuckers and a decent strat tone when tapped.


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

dwagar said:


> another option - I picked up an Eric Clapton circuit board from Axe awhile ago for, I think it was, $99.
> Big mid boost for the Strat, makes it extremely versatile.


Might be a good alternative for my Squier right now. Which pickups would you recommend as replacements for the stock ones?

Thanks guys.

Edit: 3 single coils


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> You could also look at a guitar with 2 humbuckers and coil tapping. ie) PRS
> 
> You get the humbuckers and a decent strat tone when tapped.


Jeff I like that idea. I assume that they sell humbucker pickups like that separately. How do you search for them? (tapped pickups?) Any brand in particular anyone could recommend?

I'm thinking about picking up a gibson style *cheapie* now and maybe dropping these types of PUs in there.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

to split a humbucker, just make sure it's a 4 wire (not a 2 wire). And you can get push pull pots so you don't have to install switches.


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

Hi again,
I very much appreciate your input (and your patience). As I’m starting to grow as a guitarist, *things* are starting to *reveal* themselves and I sometimes get *overwhelmed* trying to decifer what it is that I’m looking for and where to go next (and how I’m going to get there). I’ve read and heard a lot about *tones* but I was too worried about trying to get my barre chords down first  

Lately, I’ve been trying to divide my practice time between acoustic and electric. Never played much of the electric and when I did, it didn’t sound good. So I’d switch back to the acoustic fast.

So, to make a long story short  , my latest *revelation* is realizing that my tones are pretty damn awful  I’ve been experimenting, volume high on the guitar and adjust the amp volume accordingly, bridge and middle PU, neck and middle PU etc, tone knobs up down, and man, it’s awful.

Accept2 nails it in his post. I say that the tones that I get are pretty awful. But a good player might make this thing wail and it may sound decent (to a point). I’ve never had a setup done (on the Squier). The store that sold me this thing just took it off the rack, “rung me in” and I was out the door. It didn’t really matter (I guess) cause I played it unplugged a lot; my focus was more to get some chords down. I just played chords to play songs with a clean sound through the amp once in a while.

But this *revelation* has caused a growing frustration lately and I ridicule myself in a forum like this. It’s a very humbling experience. I’ve ordered the *bible* of guitar repair (I was hoping I’d receive it tonight) and this will give me a pretty good start. But if you’ll allow me a couple more questions, I’ll eh... ok I’ll buy you all a beer 

1) I “think” at this point that I need new PUs for the Squier. The stock ones are probably *not so good*. Am I right? Or could a proper setup make them sound amazing? What’s a good step up for 3 single coils? Change the pots as well? I’m thinking of going with dwagar’s idea (EC mid booster board). I believe that it comes with the one pot. Does it replace the volume pot? Anything else you could point out is cool.

2) This place is getting pretty resourceful. I’d still like to hear from people who have had (or who have) experience with a *hyghway 1” style of guitars (a humbucker and a single coil). Enlighten me (and hopefully others). It sounds like a great instrument but what do I know? Humbucker always at the bridge? Pros? Cons?...

Thanks a million
Martin


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

The EC kit replaces one tone pot with a TBX pot, the other becomes the mid-boost, so you end up with vol, boost, tone. 
I just left my original Fender pickups in, works good for me.
I don't know what kind of pickups are in a Squire though.


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## Neill MacInnis (Feb 12, 2006)

save your money and get a luthier to make what you need/want. i paid about $2000 for this CAN 










does everything i want/need it to do.... and totally worth the savings. everything about this guitar i requested (including the mic in the upper horn). save save save


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Neill MacInnis said:


> save your money and get a luthier to make what you need/want. i paid about $2000 for this CAN
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I paid $1200 US for my C66 from carvin. Active electronics, Both pickups can be split, out of phase switch, plus a fishman piezo for accoustic and a blend knob for any combo of electric/accoustic you desire. Swiss Army knife of guitars, great build quality, and sounds killer in all positions.
Having said all that it's probably more than you want to spend


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

dwagar said:


> The EC kit replaces one tone pot with a TBX pot, the other becomes the mid-boost, so you end up with vol, boost, tone.
> I just left my original Fender pickups in, works good for me.
> I don't know what kind of pickups are in a Squire though.


"Vol, Boost and Tone" controls all 3 PUs? 



Neill MacInnis said:


> save your money and get a luthier to make what you need/want. i paid about $2000 for this CAN
> 
> does everything i want/need it to do.... and totally worth the savings. everything about this guitar i requested (including the mic in the upper horn). save save save


Neill, does everything you want/need. Do you go from nice bluesy to a *crunchy" hard rock/grunge whatever style in what you're playing? You know what I'm trying to say...

For 2k, you better have good tones man  It a nice guitar.


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## Neill MacInnis (Feb 12, 2006)

btw its black limba (body/neck)
lollar p90's
24 3/4 scale
schaller locking
hipshot trem


those are the basic specs


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

davetcan said:


> I paid $1200 US for my C66 from carvin. Active electronics, Both pickups can be split, out of phase switch, plus a fishman piezo for accoustic and a blend knob for any combo of electric/accoustic you desire. Swiss Army knife of guitars, great build quality, and sounds killer in all positions.
> Having said all that it's probably more than you want to spend
> 
> davetcan, keep talking man. I get the "both PUs can be split, out of phase switch" but I'm over 40 and my brain is overloaded  Alright, a fishman piezzo for acoustic..." is one (or two) of the single coil(s)?


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## Neill MacInnis (Feb 12, 2006)

for sure it does... has some of the sweetest sounds ever clean and then rips. i have no need for a bluesy crunch per se but im sure it could do that. btw my rig is delay, vol pedal and then tweed bassman... very simple and no dual channel to split clean and dirt. it all happens on the vol pedal and TO ME sounds amazing.


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

She caught me. I got to go but I'll check later


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

ofender said:


> davetcan, keep talking man. I get the "both PUs can be split, out of phase switch" but I'm over 40 and my brain is overloaded  Alright, a fishman piezzo for acoustic..." is one (or two) of the single coil(s)?


I'm over 50 so it took me awhile to figure it all out  

Both pickups can be split independently. The phase switch only works with both pups in Hum or Single configuration. There are 2 input jacks, so, you can run the electric side of the guitar to your amp, and the accoustic side to the PA or an accoustic amp. If you just plug into the electric jack you can still blend accoustic/e;ectric but you're only using your electric amp for accoustic, not the best scenario, but it still sounds pretty good. 
Only downside, you need to replace the battery every once in awhile. You can order this setup from them on a cheaper guitar, you don't have to "gussie" it up like mine. My mom passed away a couple of years ago so I bought the guitar out of the estate. She was a red head and I thought it kinda fit. I've got her name on the trussrod cover, thank you carvin.


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## Imported_goods (Mar 4, 2006)

Ofender,

I can really relate to your quest for better tone; I grew up playing piano when I was little and switched to guitar only a few years ago, so my musicianship and ear are much better than my technical abilities on guitar. It's sometimes hugely frustrating, but it's also what makes guitar so addictive for me: the challenge of sounding better. I can hear tones in my head which I can almost - but not quite - get out of my gear.

A good setup on your Squier will make it easier to play and intonate better. It will sound better if the intonation is currently off, but it won't improve the sound coming from the pickups. Changing pickups can really make a big difference in tone, and most pickup manufacturers can offer pickup sets based on the type of sound you're after. What type of music do you play? Who's tone is the tone you want? As for the pots, changing pots is not the "traditional" way to get better tone.

Getting a guitar with coil-splitting humbuckers and piezo's will definitely offer a lot of versatility. If you want to go this route, look up what Godin guitars has to offer - good bang for the buck, and many of their models have coil-splitting, piezo's and even MIDI capability.

And while I do agree with Neil McInnis's suggestion of saving up to get the absolutely best guitar for your needs, I would say that it would be quite important to have a very well-defined idea of exactly what type of tone you want before paying 2000$ for a guitar. If you want to sound like Stevie Ray Vaughn, you don't need a dual-humbucking coil-splitting piezo-equipped guitar.

And don't forget the amp. An extremely good guitar well still sound pretty lousy on a p.o.s solid-state practice amp. It's frustrating and difficult, if not impossible, trying to get good tone with a bad amp.

Lastly, your tone is also very much litterally in your hands. One of my very accomplished guitar-playing friends can make a cheap epiphone sound better than me with my Les Paul - it's in his fingers, his articulation and phrasing, his control of his pick attack and dynamics, more than in the guitar in his hands. Ever since I realized this, a few years ago, I got the #1 thing that made a huge improvement in my playing: lessons. A much better investment than ny guitar I ever bought.

Sorry this was so long, man. Just my 0.02$, hope I didn't come off as a pompous jackass...
:rockon:


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## Tarl (Feb 4, 2006)

For me my Godin Exit 22 is the most versitile electric i have ever owned ($460 Can). The pure tone is better on other guitars i,ve owned but the territory I can cover with this thing is incredible.

Tarl


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## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

Imported_goods said:


> Lastly, your tone is also very much litterally in your hands. One of my very accomplished guitar-playing friends can make a cheap epiphone sound better than me with my Les Paul - it's in his fingers, his articulation and phrasing, his control of his pick attack and dynamics, more than in the guitar in his hands. Ever since I realized this, a few years ago, I got the #1 thing that made a huge improvement in my playing: lessons. A much better investment than ny guitar I ever bought.


I'm with you on that, bro'! It's what I call the "order of influence". I've been reading a lot of forum posts about guitar players not happy with their sound and their first impulse is to buy new pickups to cure the problem, but that's a little further down the list in my opinion.

Listen to Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, Jeff Beck for example. They all have immediately recognizable sounds _no matter what guitar or amp they are playing_. Pickups, unlike guitarists, guitars, or speakers, have no physical connection to the _production_ of the sound, they are only transmitters. Here is what I would consider the order of influence:
1. the player - physical
2. the guitar - physical
3. the amp - electronic, speakers - physical
4. the pickups - electronic

The acoustic environment is also a major factor but it's not worth discussing because is usually beyond your control. I would say the biggest influence is where the rubber meets the road; hands on the guitar and how your brain's wish for a certain tone instructs your hands to produce it. You can't predictably produce a good sound without hearing it in your head first. It's also valuable to recognize your own personal nuances and capitalize on them. Recognize your own reality and don't fantasize some other players sound. Your bone density in your hands has a big influence on tone and it's yours alone. Try fretting a note with your pinky and then play the same note with your thumb, you'll hear the difference. How you attack a string, where you attack a string, with what you attack a string, and the split second timing between left and right hand is really where it starts. 

I'm sure you can improve your tone with the gear you have now. Listen for similarities between your acoustic guitar sound and your electric sound. Those similarities will be your personal sound. Once you get a good clean tone happening, then you can start shaping it electronically but I would try different amps before messing with pickups.
When I started singing, the voice in my head, the voice I was hearing, was'nt the voice I was producing. After hearing myself recorded a lot I began to hear and was able to control my true voice. I applied this same principle to my guitar playing and it helped me a lot.
:rockon:


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## SCREEM (Feb 2, 2006)

davetcan said:


> I paid $1200 US for my C66 from carvin. Active electronics, Both pickups can be split, out of phase switch, plus a fishman piezo for accoustic and a blend knob for any combo of electric/accoustic you desire. Swiss Army knife of guitars, great build quality, and sounds killer in all positions.
> Having said all that it's probably more than you want to spend



that C66 has some major drool factor....sweet axe evilGuitar:


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

davetcan said:


> I'm over 50 so it took me awhile to figure it all out
> 
> Both pickups can be split independently. The phase switch only works with both pups in Hum or Single configuration. There are 2 input jacks, so, you can run the electric side of the guitar to your amp, and the accoustic side to the PA or an accoustic amp. If you just plug into the electric jack you can still blend accoustic/e;ectric but you're only using your electric amp for accoustic, not the best scenario, but it still sounds pretty good.
> Only downside, you need to replace the battery every once in awhile. You can order this setup from them on a cheaper guitar, you don't have to "gussie" it up like mine. My mom passed away a couple of years ago so I bought the guitar out of the estate. She was a red head and I thought it kinda fit. I've got her name on the trussrod cover, thank you carvin.


davetcan, many friends have told me over the years that when they ask me what the time is, that I first explain how the clock is built and then eventually, I get to tell them what time it is. I'm doing it again  I constantly find myself asking "is this phrase necessary" to say what I want to say. It doesn't work too well with the fast pace of life and especially in a forum such as this here. I write a whole bunch of words then I "thin it out" and what's left often make people go huh?? And I try to be funny on top of that .. often a bad combination. So it's not you or the age you're at don't worry. It's a hopeless situation but I have to keep at it and maybe someday, I'll be cool and to the point... yeah ok  

This does sound like the swiss army knife type of guitar and it may just be what I'd need right now. I like the versatility, the 2 input jacks, the blending options and so on. It's a gorgeous guitar too (and the price range is not too too bad). I'm starting to think that this quest for good tones has to have a reference somewhere. I wish that you could rent guitars, take it home for a weekend, a week and experiment. I feel intimidated trying guitars in music stores.

I may need to reconsider my *plan* in the sense that I might be better getting a good quality *versatile* guitar such as this one and establish some references as far as good tonalities and then later on, venture into *fixing/building up* lesser quality instruments.

It's a nice *souvenir* for you this particular guitar. Thanks again.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

A couple of things that will interest you then.

1. Carvin has a no questions asked 10 free trial. You can return the product just because you don't like it. You will have to cover the cost of shipping so there is some risk.

2. Shipping costs to Canada are usually 2 or 3 times what Carvin charges to ship in the USA. That sounds high until you realize that it includes ALL duty and Taxes. I think I paid around $50 to have the guitar shipped and that was it, nothing else.

I've bought a few things from them and have always been pleased. I did have to send one amp back but I had a replacement, at their cost, within a week.

You can go to their site and build a guitar to your specs or also check out the "guitars in stock" for sale items. You might just find something you like at a good price. If nothing else it's nice to browse the pictures.

When I said it took me a while to figure it out I meant the guitar, not you  
You were clear as a bell.

http://www.carvin.com/guitar_bass/


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

davetcan, browsing the Carvin site, one gets a feeling that if you play a Carvin, that you’re part of a *cult*. You own a Mac as opposed to a Windows machine. What’s not to like? Large selection of wood, colors, edge of guitar square or rounded, lots of electronic possibilities and so on. Yet people don’t seem to talk much about Carvin.

Some models are available with their M-series tune-o-matic bridges. “This bridges is set into a routed pocket on special heavy studs. The strings feed through the body which creates increased downward pressure on the bridge resulting in exceptional sustain and tone.” Do you know if you select a model that has this feature and if you choose to add one of the tremolo bridge that it *cancels* this feature? In other words, are the strings still fed through the body, on the trem bridge and up the neck? Any opinions about these options?

Imported_goods, nobody comes off as a pompous jackass here... yet  I appreciate your time. I think of intonation as the distance that a string *floats* between the nut and the bridge. There may be something wrong there (most likely). And I don’t know just yet if intonation also includes the distance of the top of PUs away from strings on an electric guitar. And there may be something wrong there too. A good set up will make a difference. And about “your tone is in your hand..”, if *damn awful* is how I think about my tones right now, it goes to show you how *good* my hands are right now  You’re right there and I know it.

Lester B. Flat, you’re describing my state of mind pretty much with your observation about players not being happy with their sound and wanting to buy something to cure the problem. I’m not sure if I ever really liked this guitar in the first place. And between that and a lack of a proper set up, of course I think that buying *something* will help *improve*. I have to take my time this time and get an instrument that I’m really going to like. Then later on, if i do get in this frame of mind (which I know I will), then I’ll know that it’s time to take a little *break* and blame the player and not the equipment  

Tarl and others who mentioned Godin, I checked (online) the Exit 22 and I like it a lot. I’ll check it out for sure next time I see one in a shop. I might even consider one of the Freeway (the Classic or the Floyd).

Cheers! :food-smiley-004:


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## Imported_goods (Mar 4, 2006)

ofender said:


> And I don’t know just yet if intonation also includes the distance of the top of PUs away from strings on an electric guitar. And there may be something wrong there too.


Nope, intonation is indeed about string distance between the nut and the bridge. 

Basically, if you check your tuning with a tuner, you should make sure you're getting exactly the same tuning when you play an open string and then the same string on the 12th fret (one octave higher). If you're a bit sharp or flat at the 12th fret, you're intonation is off, and it will affect your capacity to sound "in tune" when playing up and down the fretboard or when fingering chords.

When the strings are too close to the PU's the you will lose sustain because of the PU's magnet's pull on the strings. If too far, the sound becomes thin and weak.

p.s.
Looks like you got a bad case of GAS going down, ofender  

You might want to warn your loved ones that you've come down with a chronic disease for which there is no cure known to man...My wife is thinking of starting a support group for bereaved spouses...


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

Imported_goods said:


> p.s.
> Looks like you got a bad case of GAS going down, ofender
> 
> You might want to warn your loved ones that you've come down with a chronic disease for which there is no cure known to man...My wife is thinking of starting a support group for bereaved spouses...


"Look honey, there's a single pick up here, one here and another here. I *need* and extra one beside this one, and maybe another one beside the last one here. Without these, I just can't progress anymore".   Honey? Where did you go?


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

Can't get much more versatile than a Strat in my book. Blues, rock, fusion, it'll do it all. You can even get a decent jazz box tone from the neck PU with the tone rolled back.

CT.


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

CocoTone said:


> Can't get much more versatile than a Strat in my book. Blues, rock, fusion, it'll do it all. You can even get a decent jazz box tone from the neck PU with the tone rolled back.
> 
> CT.


CT, I got a bad case of GAS going down. So please convince me that I *need* a *good* Strat   

I'm certainly not discarding having a Strat.


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## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

If it's a Strat or Tele that you're after, have you considered building your own? Since a Strat is a bolt together deal it's not too difficult for a non-luthier type. There are lots of places to order bodies and necks. You can choose the wood type, neck shape and outfit it with the hardware of your choice. Finish it the way you like. It'll be a custom made guitar for a fraction of the cost. It just won't say Fender on it. I'm going to build myself a Tele thinline.

evilGuitar:


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

Lester B. Flat said:


> If it's a Strat or Tele that you're after, have you considered building your own? Since a Strat is a bolt together deal it's not too difficult for a non-luthier type. There are lots of places to order bodies and necks. You can choose the wood type, neck shape and outfit it with the hardware of your choice. Finish it the way you like. It'll be a custom made guitar for a fraction of the cost. It just won't say Fender on it. I'm going to build myself a Tele thinline.
> 
> evilGuitar:


Lester B, I don't have the confidence/knowledge and especially experience to tackle something like this right now. When I was a teenager, I build a snare drum. I laugh when I thing about it now but it was a fun project. I didn't have the tools to work with solid pieces of wood and plane them down to a smaller thickness and so on. So I worked with 1/16 inch plywood  

I cut 3 pieces so that the lenght of the outside ply when rolled was 14" in diameter, the second piece a little smaller so that it fitted in the first, and the third one a little smaller so that if fitted in the secong one. I made forms out of other plywoods with a 14" circle in the middle of each. I used a coleman stove with a large pot and heated the wood over boiling water.

I kept working each pieces until they retained a circular shape on their own. I put the outside layer in the forms, glued the inside (contact glue), glued the outside of second ply and stuck them together patiently (with the seam offsetted about a third of the way). Did the same with the inner layer. Put the lugs on and everything and it ended up being not too bad.

So *building* a guitar is something that has crossed my mind many times. I know about kits and you can probably come up with something pretty decent but it's for later.

Thanks man.


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## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

Yeah, I hear ya. I don't have the knowledge or experience either, only the confidence!


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

Lester B. Flat said:


> Yeah, I hear ya. I don't have the knowledge or experience either, only the confidence!


And you'll gain that kind of experience too  I think I mean by experience something more like guitar playing experience or something, different necks, PUs, guitar shape and thickness, ... (and a bit of time to mature musically).

You've probably played with a thinline if you're confident  or motivated enought to tackle building one. That should be a very interesting project.

Have fun


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## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

ofender said:


> You've probably played with a thinline if you're confident  or motivated enought to tackle building one. That should be a very interesting project.
> 
> Have fun


Yes, I have a real one that I can use as a guide. I'm in no hurry and I'll get help along the way if I need to.
:wave:


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

ofender said:


> CT, I got a bad case of GAS going down. So please convince me that I *need* a *good* Strat
> 
> I'm certainly not discarding having a Strat.


I don't know how I can convince you, cept maybe to tell you to listen to Hendrix at Monterey doing Like a Rolling Stone. If that tone don't convince you, just find a good one, and play it thru your fave amp, or a good non master vol amp, The rest will be history.

CT.


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## ted13 (Mar 2, 2006)

hey,

another couple suggestions would be:

1- equipe any guitar with a set of fralin unbuckers. they are humbuckers that are unevenly wound resulting in a better high end response from th wound strings uncommon with humbuckers. the other advantage is you can the outer coikls are the ones wound hotter so they are much better than regular HB's for coil tapping. they offer a hotter single coil than splitting a trad. HB. offering a more accusrate single coil tone. you can wire it up in a HB/s/HB setup and have grat sounding strat setup when tapped or humbucker tones when running full on.

2- i worked on a schecter the other day a relativly inexpensive guitar but the switching was cool. it was a 2 HB setup with a 5 way strat switch. HB/s/both singles/s/HB was very cool. that kinda setup with some nice HBs would be great to. 

good luck. Ted


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## telemaster (Mar 13, 2006)

*Tele Custom FMT*

Hey,

The most versatile guitar I've ever played (and ended up buying) was the Fender Telecaster Custom FMT. I got it at Axe for like $800 and it was well worth it. You can check out the reviews at harmonycentral.com or musiciansfriend.com they will speak for themselves.
It is a dual humbucker with the coiltap giving it an amazing variety of sounds. It is also an excellent sounding guitar and I never plan on selling it. It is still my favourite over my explorer and deluxe strat.
Good luck


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Pretty much a users choice thing.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

... why was a 2-year old thread bumped...?


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Budda, I thought the same thing. Maybe our own GuitarsCanada has been hittin' the sauce ? 9kkhhd


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Thought I would throw a curve at you old timers


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Budda said:


> ... why was a 2-year old thread bumped...?


But while we're on the subject, my old choice was a Strat, which I still love and use all the time, but lately a Godin LG with two coil tapped humbuckers does the trick.

Peace, Mooh.


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## AgileLP (Feb 28, 2008)

I have to agree with the Godin LG. I picked mine up used for $300, which is less than you'd pay for the pick-up upgrade in the Squier strat, and have an infinitely better guitar.


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