# English - a lost language?



## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Jeez, I really can't stand how messed up the English language is getting. I don't mean with slang, I mean mainstream. Here's a couple of my favorites:

'gone missing'. Someone hasn't gone missing. There's no place called 'missing'. They've gone to Toronto, or they ARE missing. Little Timmy IS missing. He hasn't gone missing.

'come with'. Are people too lazy to add 'me' to that sentence? Come with me. How hard is that?

Anyone else have some pet peeve phrases?


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

disorientated

like

also, kids are now starting to speak in text, saying "OMG" out loud. this habit is sure to drive me to try and scare them off of my lawn.


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## Jim Jones (Sep 18, 2006)

I could rant on this all day!

"Two. To. Too." Yes, they sound the same but they are very [email protected]#ing different.

"Then. Than." There's only one letter different, they must be the same thing. WRONG!!!!!

"If your bringing a Strat I'll bring my LP." WTF?? You have a "bringing"? Oh, you mean you-are bringing... A contraction, huh? Oh *you're*! That's awesome! For [email protected]#$ sakes!!!!

I swear we are devolving. 


Jim


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

"axe" as in Let me Axe you a question! I HATE that one! AND these are not just the younger folk using it!


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## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

"Allow me to speak to that."

This list of words/phrases that need to be banished hits a few good ones :
http://www.lssu.edu/banished/current.php


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## Vincent (Nov 24, 2007)

I usually try to spell correctly when posting online however im guilty of leaving out an apostrophe here and there in words such as Im (I'm)...when I use the word your I rarely use the proper spelling (you're)

Reason why I dont because it doesnt make the word shorter to write/type...it takes the same amount of characters to write I'M as it does to write I am and the same can be said for you are (you're)...I dont see the point in the ' in the I'M...I'm shoud just be a word on its own without the '

Other Than that I usually check my spelling when posting however I noticed that younger people posting online really do not know how to spell...I dont think they make spelling a priority in school these days.

i also use(...)in between thoughts when posting...not the correct way to type/write however im aware its not the proper way however just consider it my sig...lol

Do the words internet and intranet have the same definition or are they 2 totally different things...just wondering.


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

don't get me started.....lol....I'm going to throw that "envelope" out the "window".....One site I visit has pages of Internet definitions and short form terminology....it's easier to use plain English... thank you very much......
I wonder though, is this complaining an old age thing?....are we rebelling......we do tend to knock new dress styles, piercings and "modern music"...I know sometimes I have to correct myself regarding my distaste for newer music styles...Hey, just don't listen...I can remember as a kid getting grief from my Dad about listening to the Beatles and Elvis....he was a Big Band music lover.....my taste in music was crap....I always said (while I admired him as a solid person) I hope that when I'm his age I am not too much like him...lol
cheers
RIFF


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

Biggest irritant? Has to be "irregardless"!

It's not even a real world! It's also a double negative!

I cringe every time I hear it and I've heard it from highly placed people who should've known better.

:food-smiley-004:


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## Wheeman (Dec 4, 2007)

Vincent said:


> Do the words internet and intranet have the same definition or are they 2 totally different things...just wondering.


They are two different things.

Internet is the thing you are/were on.

Intranet is a private form of the Internet usually used by larger companies for sharing information internally.

Now you know!

I always get 'then' and 'than' mixed up.

In my opinion, our language has past the 'romantic' stage of its life and is evolving into a more efficient, albeit cruder form. Especially with the internet, even more so with video games about 5 years ago (before voice communication became common), it is a lot faster and easier to talk in short form when time is of the essence. 

Heres a couple comics on the subject :smile: Might be NSFW (Not safe for work)
Noah Webster, You're my only hope!
The bad boys of punctuation
Mr. Period returns.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Vincent said:


> Do the words internet and intranet have the same definition or are they 2 totally different things...just wondering.


Internet: The global network. Intranet: Usually a private network based on the same protocols as the Internet. Think of the Internet as made up of millions of intranets.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Wild Bill said:


> Biggest irritant? Has to be "irregardless"!
> 
> It's not even a real world! It's also a double negative!
> 
> ...



I am pretty relaxed when it comes to others use of the English language. I'm bright enough to know what people mean in spite of incorrect use of it. As well, unless we are all English scholars, I'm sure that every one of us have some bad english speaking habits. However, the term "irregardless", raises my hackles. Especially when coming from one friend of mine that regards him self as above average eloquent.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Internet: The global network. Intranet: Usually a private network based on the same protocols as the Internet. Think of the Internet as made up of millions of intranets.


If the Internet was made up of millions of Intranets we would have millions of fired IT staff.


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## Michelle (Aug 21, 2006)

I won't read a post if it is that internet baby-speak, drives me nuts. Along with the usual there/their/they're, two/too/to, etc the one thing that really bugs me is lose/loose. As in; "I'm *loosing* my mind over this crap!" How could anyone confuse those two words?


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

English itself is a bastardization of an ancient Germanic language. Its roots have been around along time and even if some people claim its being murdered, it will survive and be around for many years to come. It survives for the reason you complain about. You can speak it, be totally understood, but not fully know the proper syntax or grammer. It conveys ideas without the restraint of rules........


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

The phrase "recommend me" drives me nuts! For example, many subject headings read " recommend me a reverb pedal" or "recommend me a pickup." This one seems fairly new . . . argh!

If you really want to lose your mind, try marking university students' essays. 

TG


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Michelle said:


> I won't read a post if it is that internet baby-speak, drives me nuts. Along with the usual there/their/they're, two/too/to, etc the one thing that really bugs me is lose/loose. As in; "I'm *loosing* my mind over this crap!" How could anyone confuse those two words?


...major irritation: "teh" instead of "the".

-dh


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Paul said:


> You have obviously never read the notes sent in to teachers by parents concerned about their child's success in literacy. I have seen teams of up to four teachers be completely unsuccessful at decoding what a parent meant in a note from home. These are not immigrant parents. These are english-as-a-first-language, financial planner/real estate broker/paralegal type parents. People for whom communication is the primary tool of their profession.
> 
> I know I ain't perfect, but i tries to make my enlgish as goodest as the rest of youse guys.:smile:


Believe what you want Paul, but I can 100% guarentee it will outlive every member of this board, and its impending death has been greatly exagerated.......


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## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

Rediculous! Definately rediculous!


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## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

Michelle said:


> ... that internet baby-speak, drives me nuts.


LOL! ipop.


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## Vincent (Nov 24, 2007)

Whats up with doctors Penmanship...I cant even read what they write?


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## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

Vincent said:


> Whats up with doctors Penmanship...I cant even read what they write?


They scribble the presciption because they don't want you to know you're in the "control group" and only recieving a placebo. :smilie_flagge17:


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## Vincent (Nov 24, 2007)

Maybe thats the way they all make it through med school...just scribble...cant really mark the answer wrong if you cant read it.

Or maybe its a way to protect themselves from lawsuits...nobody can read what they wrote so who can argue against what is written.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> If the Internet was made up of millions of Intranets we would have millions of fired IT staff.


Maybe technically but how many intranets do you know that don't have access or a gateway to the Internet? Would that not then make them part of the Internet. I see more fired IT guys when the users aren't able to access the Internet from their intranet.


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## WarrenG (Feb 3, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I see more fired IT guys when the users aren't able to access the Internet from their intranet.


That's 'cause they were too busy setting user permissions on the extranet that their manager deemed a necessity...


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## Jim Jones (Sep 18, 2006)

Paul said:


> ...youse guys.:smile:


Damn it, that one makes me crazy!!! Nothing says, "Hi, I'm a hillbilly", faster than "youse". Arrrggggh!!!!!!!!! 

Jim


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Maybe technically but how many intranets do you know that don't have access or a gateway to the Internet? Would that not then make them part of the Internet. I see more fired IT guys when the users aren't able to access the Internet from their intranet.


No, If they don't have access or a gateway to the internet they are definately not part of the internet.

Intranet is behind a firewall or a completely isolated network (isolated meanin no internet access). The machines inside this firewall are using IP addresses from a specified range defined for Intranets. The firewall in most cases does NAT(Network address translation) allowing internal machines access to the internet.

So...
The only machine that is part of the internet is actual firewall and any machines defined in the DMZ.


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## SinCron (Mar 2, 2006)

Jim Jones said:


> Damn it, that one makes me crazy!!! Nothing says, "Hi, I'm a hillbilly", faster than "youse". Arrrggggh!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Jim


I tell you what.


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## Gilliangirl (Feb 26, 2006)

I used to get upset about improper word usage and incorrect grammar but I'm learning to accept it. Language, like everything else, evolves, and people who take creative licence with it are actually modifying the language for a more modern world. Look at leet speak. I guess I'm learning to appreciate how and why it changes. Each year the Webster's Dictionary folks get together and decide what words to delete and what words to add. I've got an old 1949 dictionary here and there are words in there that will likely never be used again.

The one thing that does drive me nuts though is the incorrect use of the apostrophe. Some folks want to tack that thing onto every 's' in a sentence.


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

unthaw.

You don't unthaw something unless you are putting it back in the freezer.


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

"Don't you know that...."

I can't stand that phrase, for some reason the word 'that' sounds incredibly disonent when used there.

There is a Bad Company song that repeats this line over and over again - I can't listen to it as it makes me want to vomit.


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

One word I absolutely loathe is "Yo". Everytime I hear somebody using it, I cringe. I don't even consider it a word unless you put it with another "yo" and you're describing a toy you use with a string or the first name of a famous cellist. :smile: "Yo-Yo".


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

Whether a word or an expression is acceptable depends on whether it is understood within the communicative context it is used. Users of a language shape it to meet their own communicative needs within a particular context (language is determined by its users). As our needs evolve and change, so will the language. It's inevitable. 

The only languages that do not evolve are dead languages because they don't have any native speakers.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> No, If they don't have access or a gateway to the internet they are definately not part of the internet.
> 
> Intranet is behind a firewall or a completely isolated network (isolated meanin no internet access). The machines inside this firewall are using IP addresses from a specified range defined for Intranets. The firewall in most cases does NAT(Network address translation) allowing internal machines access to the internet.
> 
> ...



You can technically argue either way. But an intranet partakes in the internet even if its true IP is hidden. The only way an intranet is totally isolated is if its unplugged with no way a hacker can touch it. I look after security for a world wide enterprise WAN.


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## Wheeman (Dec 4, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> You can technically argue either way. But an intranet partakes in the internet even if its true IP is hidden. The only way an intranet is totally isolated is if its unplugged with no way a hacker can touch it. I look after security for a world wide enterprise WAN.


OOOOH OOH OOH OOH!! !OH! OH OH!!1!!!1!One.

That really bugs me when somebody refers to a *cracker* as a *hacker*.

Cracker is what the common man thinks is a hacker (you know what I mean. I just don't want to explain.)

A Hacker is somebody that takes something and makes it do something else. Like taking an old computer and turning it into a automated coffee-maker. Or putting a touch-pad synth and putting it into a guitar.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I look after security for a world wide enterprise WAN.


I love how IT people think that by stating their credentials it somehow makes their comments as good as gold.


We've derailed this thread enough... :smile:


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Hopefully he guitarists here know the difference between effect & affect.

As in effect pedals affect the sound of your guitar.

(effect is a noun, affect is a verb.)


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> I love how IT people think that by stating their credentials it somehow makes their comments as good as gold.


+1.

80% of the time when they state their education/credentials in an arguement or debate they know they're wrong and don't want to admit it. If anyone here is a member of [H] they'll know credentials don't mean shit.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> I love how IT people think that by stating their credentials it somehow makes their comments as good as gold.
> 
> 
> We've derailed this thread enough... :smile:



I have not begun to list my credentials of 20 years in the IT industry. But yeah ok. Feel free to dubiously attack the poster with assumptions.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

violation said:


> +1.
> 
> 80% of the time when they state their education/credentials in an arguement or debate they know they're wrong and don't want to admit it. If anyone here is a member of [H] they'll know credentials don't mean shit.



Yes I agree with the fact that experience is an important factor. More so than creds/certs. But I do know that without credentials you don't get a job. So maybe you don't know shit.


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

violation said:


> +1.
> 
> 80% of the time when they state their education/credentials in an arguement or debate they know they're wrong and don't want to admit it. If anyone here is a member of [H] they'll know credentials don't mean shit.


Well, I don't think that you're right to say people who use that argument are wrong 80% of the time or that they know it is wrong and don't want to admit it, but in some cases they are making a fallacious argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

NB-SK said:


> Well, I don't think that you're right to say people who use that argument are wrong 80% of the time or that they know it is wrong and don't want to admit it, but it wouldn't give any really weight to their position.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority
> 
> ...among other things.



I really wasn't trying to get in to an argument and was just trying to loosely illustrate a point without getting in to a detailed description of intranets/extranets, blended designs totalitarian intranets blah blah. But there's always a joker that wants to call you on something specifically to elevate their own superiority I guess. Nothing is ever clear cut and absolute when dealing in the subject of technology or the Internet.


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> *I really wasn't trying to get in to an argument and was just trying to loosely illustrate a point without getting in to a detailed description of intranets/extranets, blended designs totalitarian intranets blah blah.* But there's always a joker that wants to call you on something specifically to elevate their own superiority I guess. Nothing is ever clear cut and absolute when dealing in the subject of technology or the Internet.


Yeah, your intentions seemed clear enough to me. 

To say you have experience doing something is not always the same as claiming you are right because of that experience.


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Yes I agree with the fact that experience is an important factor. More so than creds/certs. But I do know that without credentials you don't get a job. So maybe you don't know shit.


I haven't even been to college or uni yet and a web dev company in the US outsources design/programming projects to me among many others I know of.

So I wouldn't say you _need_ credentials to get a job doing something you're experienced at in the tech field. Sure it can help, but you don't _need_ it as implied in your post. Freelance anything can turn pro as long as you're good at what you do, check Sitepoint for a ton of examples. 

Arrogance isn't a pretty color on you (I had teacher tell me that once... I said arrogance isn't a color and got kicked out of class, nice right?), don't end posts like that. Atleast the second time I've seen you do it. 

Back to the topic we go, I hate it when people mix up "there", "their" and "they're" as well as "your" and "you're" when typing. They teach you the difference in early elementary school... I mean come on.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

violation said:


> I haven't even been to college or uni yet and a web dev company in the US outsources design/programming projects to me among many others I know of.
> 
> So I wouldn't say you _need_ credentials to get a job doing something you're experienced at in the tech field. Sure it can help, but you don't _need_ it as implied in your post. Freelance anything can turn pro as long as you're good at what you do, check Sitepoint for a ton of examples.
> 
> ...


I guess the whole argument is my fault. I should have known better than to post in a thread where people get all bent out of shape about others bad grammatical habits. I mean yeah its bad. But when people describe it in terms of "I hate it", "It drives me crazy", etc. I mean god I hate it when people cut me off on the highway endangering my life. It drives me crazy when someone in the foursome behind me, on a golf course, drives a ball at my head because they think I should go faster, instead of just asking to be let through. If someone speaks or writes or types incorrect english on the internet, who cares.
As far as the "Arrogance isn't a color" story. Good one. I was the same smart alecky kind of kid in school as well. Spent my share of time getting kicked out of class. lol


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Gilliangirl said:


> The one thing that does drive me nuts though is the incorrect use of the apostrophe. Some folks want to tack that thing onto every 's' in a sentence.



...for me, its hyphens, and the worst offenders are quebecers, and consulting engineers.

what is up with quebecers and hyphens? virtually every combination of words or names that are even remotely related in any way get hyphenated.

just plain bizarre.

-dh


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> If someone speaks or writes or types incorrect english on the internet, who cares.


Dislike is 3 more letters than hate but hate still counts as proper English. Win/win. :banana:

PS: God should be capitalized if I'm not mistaken... hey you know what thread you're in! :tongue:


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

violation said:


> PS: God should be capitalized if I'm not mistaken... hey you know what thread you're in! :tongue:


"god", in the context that I used was more of a descriptive exclamation and not referring to the almighty,which would be deserving of capitalization.:smile:


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

That 68 in English is showing today isn't it? Haha, learn something new everyday.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...for me, its hyphens, and the worst offenders are quebecers, and consulting engineers.
> 
> what is up with quebecers and hyphens? virtually every combination of words or names that are even remotely related in any way get hyphenated.
> 
> ...


Ha ha..........thats funny! :smile:


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## Stratocaster (Feb 2, 2006)

so u guyz r liek, totully d1ssin my launguage 



Sorry


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## wnpgguy (Dec 21, 2007)

Starbuck50 said:


> "axe" as in Let me Axe you a question! I HATE that one! AND these are not just the younger folk using it!


It's funny I've never once heard anyone use that slang in real life, only in the occational movie.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

wnpgguy said:


> It's funny I've never once heard anyone use that slang in real life, only in the occational movie.


...so you're saying you've never watched jerry springer?



-dh
or ricky, or maury, or jenny....etc etc etc etc etc


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

I have the misfortune of hearing it at work! Some of the younger folk use it (and some old enough to know better). Of all cultures!


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

david henman said:


> ...for me, its hyphens, and the worst offenders are quebecers, and consulting engineers.
> 
> what is up with quebecers and hyphens? virtually every combination of words or names that are even remotely related in any way get hyphenated.
> 
> ...



For me, it's the improper use of capitalization, or rather the lack thereof, that drives me up the wall.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

NB-SK said:


> For me, it's the improper use of capitalization, or rather the lack thereof, that drives me up the wall.


sorry nb-sk, as i completely disregard capitalization. well most times. im sorry if it pisses you off, but i stopped doing it years ago, and cant seem to get into using it again. once upon a time i was an english major- but i cured myself of that right quick.:smile:
interesting read here-
http://victorian.fortunecity.com/vangogh/555/Spell/twain-simpspl.html


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

NB-SK said:


> For me, it's the improper use of capitalization, or rather the lack thereof, that drives me up the wall.


...in "formal situations" i use all the proper grammar. i have spent many years as both an editor and a journalist, and am still in publishing. i know the rules.

in informal situations, like this forum, i tend to relax a bit and pursue my own, personal style (nod to e e cummings).

-dh


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## Gilliangirl (Feb 26, 2006)

Okay, I know I posted earlier saying I could appreciate the evolution of language with the times, but some things are just wrong. I'm watching American Idol last night and there was a commercial for packaged food, specifically frozen shrimp. She called it shrimps! The plural of shrimp is shrimp, not shrimps, isn't it? Same as beer. The plural of beer is beer, not beers. Is it just me?


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Gilliangirl said:


> Okay, I know I posted earlier saying I could appreciate the evolution of language with the times, but some things are just wrong. I'm watching American Idol last night and there was a commercial for packaged food, specifically frozen shrimp. She called it shrimps! The plural of shrimp is shrimp, not shrimps, isn't it? Same as beer. The plural of beer is beer, not beers. Is it just me?


Ha! It's not just you. My Husband and I argue that one all the time. He thinks it's the Easterner in me that makes me say 24 beer. He says beers! Drives me nuts.


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## Gilliangirl (Feb 26, 2006)

Paul said:


> It depends on how many beers you have had!:smile:
> 
> As always, google is our friend:
> 
> http://crofsblogs.typepad.com/english/2005/06/beer_or_beers.html


Okay, I read that but I still think it just sounds weird to say 'I had 3 beers'. In my dictionary, there's no such a word as beers. I guess the best way to avoid this is to say 'I had three bottles of beer'. (running to check the fridge....)

Gord help the guy who tells me he had 20 shrimps with his 3 beers!


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## Gilliangirl (Feb 26, 2006)

Starbuck50 said:


> Ha! It's not just you. My Husband and I argue that one all the time. He thinks it's the Easterner in me that makes me say 24 beer. He says beers! Drives me nuts.


I'm on your side! :smile:


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

well, I can go to a shoes store or a foods shop here in Japan. Some bars stay open `til 26 o`clock. 
Think native speakers slaughter the English language? You don`t even want to know what they do to French.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...i LOVE that american conservatives are trying to push through a bill to make english the official language in the US.

oh, the irony...



-dh


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## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

Gilliangirl said:


> Gord help the guy who tells me he had 20 shrimps with his 3 beers!


Kick him in both pants!


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

It's the little things that bother me the most... its vs it's; your vs. you're; their vs. they're vs. there.


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

david henman said:


> ...in "formal situations" i use all the proper grammar. i have spent many years as both an editor and a journalist, and am still in publishing. i know the rules.
> 
> in informal situations, like this forum, i tend to relax a bit and pursue my own, personal style (nod to e e cummings).
> 
> -dh


It has nothing to do with whether this is an informal or formal context. I'll spare you details about 'speech communities' and 'disglossia' and just say that regardless of whether a text is the Queen's Christmas address or a conversation between two South African teens, it must adhere to the conventions of the genre as determined by the users within their respective communicative contexts.

As for beer or 'beers'...Pluralization to express multiple servings of this and other beverages is fairly common. It may not be grammatically correct, but in certain contexts it is most acceptable. I'm sure Australians and Texans do things with English that you wouldn't agree with either. It's all about context.

A more pertinent question would be to ask if they are targetting teens with that commercial. Either way, see the advertizer's use of that word as an indication that you don't fall within their target demographics. I simply wouldn't buy their products.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

I certainly do not suggest my students go on line to improve their English skills. Native speakers are among the worst offenders.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Starbuck50 said:


> Ha! It's not just you. My Husband and I argue that one all the time. He thinks it's the Easterner in me that makes me say 24 beer. He says beers! Drives me nuts.


I can think of worse things to happen in a marriage. If thats the biggest beef, you have to deal with in your marriage, then you should consider your self lucky. Unfortunately I feel sorry for your husband if thats all it takes to drive you crazy.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> I can think of worse things to happen in a marriage. If thats the biggest beef, you have to deal with in your marriage, then you should consider your self lucky. Unfortunately I feel sorry for your husband if thats all it takes to drive you crazy.


 relaxe man, no need to be so angry- drink 6-28 beers, depending on your level of competence:food-smiley-004:


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Michelle said:


> I won't read a post if it is that internet baby-speak, drives me nuts.
> 
> 
> > I better get a new keyboard...


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Sneaky said:


> Michelle said:
> 
> 
> > I won't read a post if it is that internet baby-speak, drives me nuts.
> ...


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## Gilliangirl (Feb 26, 2006)

zontar said:


> Sneaky said:
> 
> 
> > Michelle said:
> ...


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

Gilliangirl said:


> zontar said:
> 
> 
> > Sneaky said:
> ...


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

sneakypete said:


> Gilliangirl said:
> 
> 
> > zontar said:
> ...


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## Wheeman (Dec 4, 2007)

My next keyboard is not going to be labeled at all. Take that, you scum that use my computer for devious purposes!

But seriously, iT gEtS aNnOyInG trying to read that... much more to type it out.

And if you really want to see some bastardize English, play _World of Warcraft_ for an hour. LF2M 4 SL PST need healz, kthnxbye.


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## Spikezone (Feb 2, 2006)

Wheeman said:


> .
> 
> Heres a couple comics on the subject :smile: Might be NSFW (Not safe for work)
> Noah Webster, You're my only hope!
> ...


Not trying to be a jerk, Wheeman, but just pointing something out to you here. (I liked the comics, by the way.) You wrote 'heres a couple comics'. 'Heres' is actually spelled 'here's', which is short for 'here is', which is singular, but you are submitting three links for reference, so you should have used 'here are'. Sorry about being a jerk!
-Mikey


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

I have no problem with the abbreviations used online and texting, they're like a new dialect. But when I hear poor grammar it somehow feels like the world is becoming a worse place. If everyone were concerned about grammar and ensured their children learned it properly I feel we'd all be better off, and we wouldn't hear (all true examples):
"I seen this movie before..."
"I should of boughten it..."
"Me and my friends were talking..."

Song writers are among the worst:
"...if she ever found out about you and I."


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

sneakypete said:


> I certainly do not suggest my students go on line to improve their English skills. Native speakers are among the worst offenders.


As long as they understand that what is acceptable in one context or type of production may not be in another...but, as you suggest, some native speakers make quite a few grammatical mistakes and errors of usage.


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

JHarasym said:


> I have no problem with the abbreviations used online and texting, they're like a new dialect. But when I hear poor grammar it somehow feels like the world is becoming a worse place. If everyone were concerned about grammar and ensured their children learned it properly I feel we'd all be better off, and we wouldn't hear (all true examples):
> "I seen this movie before..."
> "I should of boughten it..."
> "Me and my friends were talking..."
> ...


You should hear how Korean song writers manage to get English cliches wrong (yes, English in Korean pop music). They use cliches in the lyrics for a variety or reasons, but mainly to give the impression that the pop singers are more artistically relevant and refined than they really are.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

NB-SK said:


> You should hear how Korean song writers manage to get English cliches wrong (yes, English in Korean pop music). They use cliches in the lyrics for a variety or reasons, but mainly to give the impression that the pop singers are more artistically relevant and refined than they really are.


you mean it`s worse than what the Japanese do? Didn`t think that was possible.


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

sneakypete said:


> you mean it`s worse than what the Japanese do? Didn`t think that was possible.


It's similar. Many Korean pop stars try to 'emulate' Japanese and American acts. However, their voices generally aren't as cartoonish as what I've heard on NHK (you know, that overly exuberant cartoon character voice some Japanese female TV hosts and singers do). Many young Korean female celebrities try to appear coquettish by speaking in a certain manner, but the general affect is a bit more subdued than what some of their Japanese counterparts do.


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

suttree said:


> also, kids are now starting to speak in text, saying "OMG" out loud. this habit is sure to drive me to try and scare them off of my lawn.


Do they really say Oh-em-gee? (ORLY?)
Either way, you'll be wanting one of these:
[youtube=Option]RJLAJLcOyS8[/youtube]


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

traynor_garnet said:


> If you really want to lose your mind, try marking university students' essays.


I imagine that if you and I had a nickel for every time we encountered "should of", "would of", and "could of", we'd be able to outfit our band completely.

Take note, kids: the "v" sound is a result of saying "have" too quickly, and not "*of*".

Actually, my biggest gripe is that people are generally content to subsist on a vocabulary of less than 500 words (band names excluded). For folks who study language or use words for other research purposes (e.g., studying memory), there are frequency-of-usage counts available for research purposes. I was looking at one of these about 20 odd years ago (what eventually turned into this: http://khnt.hit.uib.no/icame/manuals/LONDLUND/INDEX.HTM ), and it was possible to faithfully reconstruct 95% of almost all conversation heard on a daily basis with the top 200 words, and the addition of George Carlin's 7 words.

Honestly, it is like receiving a set of 128 colour markers, and simply using the black one exclusively, regardless of what you draw....or maybe irregardless. :smile:

On the other hand, it's interesting how having that broad palette available, yet deliberately restricting use of it, can serve as a rhetorical device. If you've seen the recent Coen Brothers film "Burn After Reading", John Malkovich (who is perhaps not quite Gore Vidal, but still very articulate) has a delicious role in which seemingly 80% of what comes out of his mouth is "What the f***?!". If you've never seen him in anything before, it would still b e funny, but not quite so funny as seeing him behave completely contrary to your expectations.

One of the perennial difficulties of English is that its' spelling rules often seem to be not rules at all but mere friendly suggestions. If you can find a theme in the words cough, enough, though, plough, and through, you're a better anglophone than I.

Another difficulty is that it has become the universal language of handy catchphrases. It seems people around the world all know a few phrases in English, in a way that is completely unlike what all those people might know of French, German, Russian, Spanish, Greek, Portugese, Italian, Mandarin, Hindi,or anything else. English IS, for all intents and purposes (and note that it is *not* "for all intensive purposes") the language of immigrants insomuch as it seems a healthy handful of easy-to-master phrases will see you through a surprisingly large number of situations. The result is that there are a large number of people all over the world speaking English rather poorly; often because they have grown up around someone speaking the language rather poorly.

Finally, I have watched the world become what I like to call "adolo-centric" over the past 30 years. By adolo-centric, I mean based principally on the priorities, values, and motives of adolescents and young adults. It IS an old farts complaint to some extent, but there is basis in historical fact. If you consider how much of the economy of industrialized nations depends on the spending habits of youth, and the amount of disposable cash in the hands of youth, and if you cast your glance back to a time before around 1975 to see what things were like then, you'll realize how much the culture has come to revolve around young people. That change arises principally out of the emergence of the ironically-named "service" sector, and the fast food industry, whose offerings of low-paying part-time employment to youth, starting around the mid-1970's created a societal change the likes of what the industrial revolution or the bubonic plague did. As a high-school student of the 1960's the only people I knew who worked more than a paper route or babysitting, while they went to school, were people with a car or a pregnant girlfriend, who ultimately dropped out before graduating. the very idea that one might work 15 hrs a week or more, and have that much disposable cash was simply unheard of.

So why do I mention this? Linguist Basil Bernstein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_Bernstein) made a distinction between what he called "restricted" and "elaborated" code. Where elaborated code is language/discourse that requires one to say almost exactly what you mean, using language that can stand on its own (and textbooks are an excellent example of this), restricted code is predicated on the other conversant (or reader, as the case may be) being part of the speaker's in-group, and sharing the same background knowledge and context. By sharing knowledge and context, much more can be done communicatively with a smaller vocabulary. Restricted code is VERY much the language of youth, whom many socio-linguists see as deliberately using language to forge group membership and exclude out-group members (especially adults). This is why youth slang changes so frequently and is so regional. U of T semiologist Marcel Danesi, in his delightful book "Cool: The signs and meanings of adolescence" proposes many ways in which adolescent conversation is engineered to deliberately delimit who is and isn't part of one's group and sharing of one's perspective.

The difficulty is not that young adults speak this way. The difficulty is that when they speak this way and hold so much economic power in the culture, the culture comes to speak the way that the power holders do. And as a result, the quality of language, and attention to it, has declined. WFT, C U later, and ROTFL *should* be seen as aberrations, but because they are in common usage by the economic power holders they are accepted. Moreover, even as people grow older and stop being adolescents, there is less onus on them to drop such speech patterns and turn more to elaborated code. Ultimately, the best thing that could happen to the English language is for everyone under the age of 20 to become unemployed tomorrow.....seriously.

How's that for a bee in one's bonnet?


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