# Looper technique - how do you get the timing right?



## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

Maybe I'm just a spaz, but I can never seem to get a clean loop working.

There's always a little glitch where the loop ends and then starts again - half a beat, a quarter beat, whatever. Enough to throw off the timing and make it all sound wrong.

Do any of you have any tricks to making this work properly?

I'm using a Ditto looper, if that makes any difference. I imagine it's a common problem across all of the live loopers.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

I have the same issue with loopers, I assumed it was just my terrible timing, but any tricks would be appreciated. With the ditto I just tend to record a whole 4 or 5 minutes, then loop it.


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## neldom (Apr 29, 2009)

I don't know what it is but some loopers just seem to be easier to hit the sweet spot.
I've used a couple of Digitech loopers, a ditto and delay based ones like the Timefactor or Flashback.
The Timefactor was horrible to try and time it right for some reason, the Ditto and the Digitech on the other hand seemed a cinch.

I don't use them live really though, more of just a jam tool.
The trick is to hit the loop button to start right on the 1 count again, right where you would normally hit the first note at the start of the progression again.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

I'll try that.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

If it's any consolation, even Adrian Belew when I saw him here in the Starlight Room, had to laugh and comment on his relief when he got a loop just right. And he uses loops in a lot of his music.


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## noman (Jul 24, 2006)

I think I've mentioned it before but there are some loopers out there where you press down to start to loop (and hold-down) and release to end. Seems to work a lot better and smoother than the regular style where you punch in and out. My Digitech delay/looper works like that and I use it more than my Boss Loopstation. Best one though is the Boomerang. Soft switches help for some reason........


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

neldom said:


> I don't know what it is but some loopers just seem to be easier to hit the sweet spot.
> I've used a couple of Digitech loopers, a ditto and delay based ones like the Timefactor or Flashback.
> The Timefactor was horrible to try and time it right for some reason, the Ditto and the Digitech on the other hand seemed a cinch.
> 
> ...


That there is about the only trick you need. Getting started off right and then everything else is gravy (an 'au jus' gravy - not the crusty pub snot you're used to).

I'm not sure if there's a video online to demonstrate the timing, but I'd be more than happy to do a quick vid later if you like.


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

Maybe part of my trouble is that the Ditto starts recording when you release the button, not when you step on it.

And if you hold it down too long, waiting for just the right moment, that triggers a different function, erase.

Maybe a single button looper wasn't the right choice for me, lol.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

maybe this isnt a trick but it works for me...
I play the whole sequence once or twice to get the feel of the rythm....once this is going, I press the start on my jamman.
As allready noted, you need to start on the "one " beat. Any lag or delay will effect the loop when it starts up again.
Same goes for the end of the loop.
You need to stop on the 4 beat so that the "one" beat is ready to go at the beginning of the loop.

By the way.... this whole thing takes a little practice but it sure is worth while to get it right.
DOnt get discouraged and keep on trying....you'll figure it out soon enough..

G.


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

I messed with this a bit last night, and I was able to make it work by counting in my head and deliberately hitting the beats. On a few songs, anyways; it's by no means perfect yet.

Even with that conquered (to some degree), I had a lot of trouble pausing the loop to play a chorus and then resuming after. Pause is a double click on the Ditto. Something tells me it would be a TON easier if there was a dedicated pause button.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Pausing is considerably more difficult with a single button for the reason you mention. If you figure that one out, let me know. I've thought about rigging it up with a volume pedal somehow, but haven't come up with a simple solution yet - aside from trying to use the volume dial with my big toe...


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Pausing would be difficult with any looper, I think.

A very quick.double tap is.needed for the rc-3. I have the fs-6 pedal to go with it, but I'm not sure if it has the capability. That would be nice - actually, a dedicated manual from boss explaining how to use the fs-6 with an rc-3 would be nicer.


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

Brian, I considered a 'kill switch' pedal that would sit in the chain after the looper and just kill the output, but I realized how likely it would be that i would drift out of sync with the loop.

I use this pedal for solo acoustic and voice, and I'm not playing to a click track or anything, so chances are almost 100% that I wouldn't be on the same beat as the loop when I kicked it back in.

Thinking about it a bit more, it almost makes sense to play through the whole sequence - intro verse chorus - and use the looper to repeat all of that while i do solos and fills and harmony over top. It's going to take some time to work out the exact details for each song, obviously, and I'll have to be careful not to bore my audience to death with extended instrumentals, lol. But I think it can work.

I was plotting out 'No Time' in my head on the way to work this morning. First pass would be the rhythm guitar chords and the 'no time left for you' vocals followed by the main vocal in the chorus, then loop and play the solo, sing the other vocal part in the verse 'on my way to better things...' and sing the harmony in the chorus while playing the guitar fills. In theory it should all work; in practice who knows?


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Greg Ellis said:


> Brian, I considered a 'kill switch' pedal that would sit in the chain after the looper and just kill the output, but I realized how likely it would be that i would drift out of sync with the loop.
> 
> I use this pedal for solo acoustic and voice, and I'm not playing to a click track or anything, so chances are almost 100% that I wouldn't be on the same beat as the loop when I kicked it back in.
> 
> ...


Wow. and I always thought I was doing well to remember the words and sing more or less on key.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Tried to do a quick timing video with the RC-3 and discovered a disappointing issue. 

You'll see the loop complete fine (by stepping down when the progression starts again), BUT, when I shift to the loop in bank 50 (which is the same progression), it's off - at around 0:26.

Thank god I don't perform. I would be bald by now. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fY35G16jGGg


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

THIS is how you use a looper:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXWcP21nBzg


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

Yeah, building up layers on the same loop isn't a big problem once you've got the first one done.

It's completely shifting gears into a different chord progression, or even a different key, that makes me trip all over myself.


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## mister.zed (Jun 8, 2011)

I'm in agreement about the Digitech Jamman. It is very intuitive to use and it never posed any difficulties of the type you describe. I first rented one (the early basic unit) from L&M to see if it was what I was looking for and indeed it was. I bought one immediately after. 

I use mine all the time as a songwriting tool. It also has a memory card which allows you to save any jems you cook up for later incorporation into full fledged songs. I haven't played mine in a while, but now I think I know what I'm doing tonight.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Glad to see Im not the only one that has trouble with these things. I have the rc-3 and was considering getting the additional footswitch to help with the start/stop of the loop. The double tap to stop recording is not the most intuitive IMO, I get caught up in the music and forget sometimes and continue recording another phrase.
Practice definitely helps with these things; I still need more practice


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Do the Boss loopers automatically quantize for you?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Moosehead said:


> Glad to see Im not the only one that has trouble with these things. I have the rc-3 and was considering getting the additional footswitch to help with the start/stop of the loop. The double tap to stop recording is not the most intuitive IMO, I get caught up in the music and forget sometimes and continue recording another phrase.


That's one of the ongoing challenges of design: more footswitches makes it more usable, but also ups the size requirements, which impacts on the chassis, packaging, shipping costs, warehouse storage requirements, display space requirements, etc.. Sometimes they make the right call, and sometimes they don't.


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