# Bogus Gibson???



## Hired Goon (Mar 4, 2008)

Was looking through Vancouver Kijiji and saw this Gibson - seems to be a very low price, and my suspicion is that it's a Chinese rip off, but I don't know much about these things. Opinions?

http://vancouver.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-musical-instruments-Gibson-guitar-W0QQAdIdZ43519498


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## Tarl (Feb 4, 2006)

Sure looks like a Chinese copy to me....just by the way the ad is worded and the price. They also sell shoes and clothing......hmmmmmmm???


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

buy it, take the police with you, have him charged with fraud on the spot.

there have been cases in the US where these guys selling fake Gibsons are starting to go to jail, where they belong.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

The truss rod cover has 50's style neck on it ?

Logo looks like GIBSUN . Good looking copy though .


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## thechamp96 (Jan 16, 2008)

Yup, either a knock-off or a 5-finger discount.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

knnnoock off .. invalid e store...... need we save you even more money :smile:


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## thechamp96 (Jan 16, 2008)

I feel badly for the poor kid out there that saves up his lunch money for months to buy a new guitar and ends up getting scammed on a knock-off. These copies are remarkably authentic looking in every way (except for the price).

I guess if looks to good to be true, it probably is.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

The TRC is not shaped properly. I don't recall seeing the sticker on the cover for neck style but it should be "50's style neck". I'm sure there would be a lot of obvious things if the pictures were better.

Gibson has used the open "O" but that might be a little too open.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

That doesn't look like a mahogany neck either.


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## JSD's Guitar Shack (Feb 24, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> That doesn't look like a mahogany neck either.


Zakk's guitars have unfinished maple necks. 



You know right off the bat its not a real Gibson just from the price. Looks more white then the actual which is a cream-ish colour. It actually looks pretty good, I bet its better than the Epiphone version..


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

Looks like there's a shipment of these arrived in the Vancouver area - there's a bunch on craigslist as well.
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/msg/623219130.html
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/msg/623221503.html

That last one is titled: "Go ahead and flag there are more on the way"
Is this like real-world spam?
Someone in Vancouver offer t obuy one and do what dwagar suggested and show up with a cop.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

Even money bet that the guitars( and I use that term loosely ) are not even in Vancouver but in mainland China. Deals like this have shown up on kijiji in the past.

One of the flagged craigslist posts is titled, "Guitar of the electric variety". The clearing houses for the Chinese knockoffs often describe guitars like this.

A quick Google of "sgoodstore" showed this group advertising on kijiji all across Canada, including this fine "Gibson" that says PRS on the headstock.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

devnulljp said:


> http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/msg/623219130.html
> http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/msg/623221503.html


They've already flagged the ads for removal.


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

Actually it isn't a bogus guitar, it is a bogus ad designed to get views. Read it and you'll see he isn't even trying to sell the guitar. He is promoting his website that sells housewares. The same guy had the same ad posted here in Victoria, I contacted Kijiji here about it a couple days ago and they pulled it off.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

The text for the ads is the same--so you have a point there.
But I still say the guitars are bogus as well.


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

zontar said:


> The text for the ads is the same--so you have a point there.
> But I still say the guitars are bogus as well.


Why would he post a _bogus_ guitar if he isn't trying to sell it? lol. He probably just puilled the pics off of ebay. It's pretty stupid either way, because not only is he not actually selling this guitar he doesn't sell any musical related items at all. He sells household garbage, though I have just noticed that his website URL comes up as bogus.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

biggreen said:


> Why would he post a _bogus_ guitar if he isn't trying to sell it? lol. He probably just puilled the pics off of ebay. It's pretty stupid either way, because not only is he not actually selling this guitar he doesn't sell any musical related items at all. He sells household garbage, though I have just noticed that his website URL comes up as bogus.


These mainland Chinese clearinghouses sell knockoffs of everything from crappy housewares, fake Rolex watches to counterfeit guitars. Take a look at http://www.dhgate.com, just don't buy anything there.


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

bobb said:


> These mainland Chinese clearinghouses sell knockoffs of everything from crappy housewares, fake Rolex watches to counterfeit guitars. Take a look at http://www.dhgate.com, just don't buy anything there.


His website wasn't selling any guitars though or anyting even remotely similar, I checked a couple days ago because I was curious about it. There wasn't a guitar to be found anywhere on the site, nothing but soaps and candles and junk, there wasn't any name brand anything from what I could see, just dollar store stuff, which is what makes his decoy ad even more stupid, guys looking for guitars don't care about candles and soap generally. It doesn't really matter either way. Kijiji told me they banned his IP from listing after I reported him but obviously it isn't Canadian wide.

I don't really use their lousy site anyway, They barely have anything listed compared to Craigslist or usedeverywhere, which here in victoria is huge, we have 3 times as many ads as Usedvancouver even.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Yes, those are Gibsun Guitars, and my friend bought one, and you know what...NOT to bad when properly set-up, we were supprised. Ok, it ain't a 'real" Gibson, but i would say it was a LEAST worth the 1000$ Epiphone i've tried over the years. Direct from China they are 279$ Cnd actually.. But i agree those should'nt be allowed. Chinesse are making copies or EVERYTHING lately. i've seen the same copies been passed as real LPs on Kiiji for 1000$...imagine the kid who always wanted to get a real LP for ages and buys one of those only to find out later he just got conned....ouch


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

the thing that concerns me with these is the young guy that decides he should sell one of these as a real Gibson. We're so used to calling these fakes, and living in a buyer beware society, I'm sure that young guy will be surprised when he ends up going to jail for fraud.


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2008)

Bust him??? Play the friggin thing first, maybe its a decent knock off. Are any of us in business to protect Gibson? Who gives a crap. A good guitar at a cheap price is what it is if this is the case. And by the way if it is any good ask him if he has any more. Knock offs are cool. Bust him, for what? a word on a headstock?


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

No, we're not in the business of protecting Gibson, but I'll tell you what - I'm in the business of protecting my fellow guitar players and hobbyists. If that means red-flagging some site selling fake Gibbies, so be it. I don't know that I'd be going to the fraud squad or whomever, but I sure as hell am going to warn the most likely victims if I have the chance. I figure it's a good karma thing - and I'd like to think my fellow members/players/collectors here would naturally reciprocate and give me a friendly heads-up if they thought something didn't smell right.

I like a great cheap clone as much as anyone - I have a few of 'em myself. But I don't have any Gibsuns or any other brand where the logo is a lie.

My .02... peace out.


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## Guiary (Oct 10, 2007)

Don't the real Zakk Wylde LPs come with a gibson case that says "custom" on it? And a gold truss rod cover for the non limited edition ones?


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2008)

Victim? What victim? Buyer beware is by no means a mantra from the recent church of consumerism. The word "Gibson" is not an assurance of quality any more than any other word. And what is it with conservatives and wanting to bust everyone and throw them in jail? If I was a kid with $500 and someone tried to sell me a good playing decent guitar for that amount (I don't know maybe it is good?) I don't care if the headstock reads May West let alone Gibsun or Gibson, I'd evaluate it for what it is , a guitar. If it plays good and sounds good and the cash is reasonable then nobody's been had. Judging from the overpriced junk I've seen coming out of some of these American institutions, I'd say this kind of thing is long overdue. Long live cheap knockoffs! And by the way Maxer, I don't remember appointing you sherrif. Most of us are smart enough to look out for ourselves. Thanks anyway, but no.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

P.T.Barnum.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

Hey Konasexone... you sound a little hot under the collar there. Sorry you feel that way. Here's the deal: I ain't no sherrif. Never intended to sound like one. I've always spoken for myself in here. I don't expect you to notice that, and it's fine by me. I just said my piece, and it's something I feel strongly about... about as strongly as you feel otherwise, I'm guessing.

If you think I personally consider Gibson the holy grail of guitar makers, a quick pint with me would clear up that misperception straight away. I have respect for a lot of brands and for me it's the value / quality proposition that I go for, pretty much every time.

Anyway, no sense in getting all steamed up over a mere exchange of opinions. Have a good one.


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

konasexone said:


> Victim? What victim? Buyer beware is by no means a mantra from the recent church of consumerism. The word "Gibson" is not an assurance of quality any more than any other word. ....


Clones are one thing. I doubt anyon here has any problems with Pre lawsuit era Japanesse tokais and Ibanezs or more recent chinesse knock offs. However their is a big diference between a clone and a counterfeit. If he is selling this guitar , which I actually don't think he is, as a Gibson and it says Gibson on the headstock but isn't then that is fraud and the victim would be anyone that buys it expecting to get a Gibson.

Sure this guy has it listed for $550 and most buyers are smart enough to know that is too good a deal for a real Gibson ZW, but what about the guy that buys it and resells it for more to an unsuspecting buyer on ebay or ortherwiae. Maybe someone who is new to guitars and couldn't spot differences like truss rod cover colors or case logo inconsistancies. The only reason most here are so quick to dismiss it as a fraud is the price, what if it said $1500?

I have personally sold and shipped a guitar for $1000 across the country to a guy that wasn't able to inspect it first hand based solely on my word of quality. Not everyone works on honor.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

I agree, I don't think anyone here has a problem with a good, reasonably priced clone. 

The problem arises when someone sells a counterfeit as an original, for more money based on the belief that it is a Gibson. Paying $500 or $1000 for a $100 guitar because it's been fraudulently misrepresented is the problem.

One of the local shops had one of the Chinese fakes in there, big sign: FAKE Gibson, it was something like $200.

The one thing that I think could stop these, if pushed, is the fake "Made In USA" on the back of the headstocks. I would think that would be enough to stop them at the border. Then it's not just a brand issue, it becomes an import (federal) issue I think.

There's way too much counterfeit Chinese stuff coming in, not just guitars. At some point, something's going to have to be done.

Also, it's not just LP's they are counterfeiting. PRS, Gretsch, Fender. I think the LPs are easy to spot, what about the others?


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

OK..was realy curious so emailed them..hehe. the Add is in BC, but that's bogus, these guys are direct in china. here is the reply from my mail.. There is a link in his or her's reply for a ton of other models.

hi, friend
Thanks for your letter, i hope you will excuse me for not having replied to you until now. i think i should introduce myself first, i am a guitar seller in beijing, china, and that guitar is AAA quality, i think you have understood this, because you say that price is 300$ with case. in US, yes, but friend, we also need send the guitar to your country, and that's heavy, so the postage is not cheap.but if you really want it, i can give you 450US with case including the postage to your country. i can make sure you will satisfy with it, because we have lots of customers all over the world, each week they order from my factory. as for my website, i think you can open it today.

by the way, this is all my guitars' photos, 

http://picasaweb.google.com/jinhui197510/GibsonGuitar?authkey=dT7E_Zv4G7g

please have a look, 
i am lookiing forward to hearing from you!
tracy


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## thechamp96 (Jan 16, 2008)

al3d said:


> OK..was realy curious so emailed them..hehe. the Add is in BC, but that's bogus, these guys are direct in china. here is the reply from my mail.. There is a link in his or her's reply for a ton of other models.
> 
> hi, friend
> Thanks for your letter, i hope you will excuse me for not having replied to you until now. i think i should introduce myself first, i am a guitar seller in beijing, china, and that guitar is AAA quality, i think you have understood this, because you say that price is 300$ with case. in US, yes, but friend, we also need send the guitar to your country, and that's heavy, so the postage is not cheap.but if you really want it, i can give you 450US with case including the postage to your country. i can make sure you will satisfy with it, because we have lots of customers all over the world, each week they order from my factory. as for my website, i think you can open it today.
> ...


Well at least he/she is FRIENDly. hahaha :food-smiley-004:


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

I see they counterfeit Ibanez and BC Rich too.

If you're buying a used Gibson, I know you can call them to confirm the serial number matches the guitar. I'm not sure about the other manufacturers, but I would guess they would offer the same service.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

it's nuts to think they can make copies like that for 300$...with case. AND make a profit. i don't care if it's cheap labor and hardware, wood is still wood..


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

It's not merely cheap labour and hardware; there's little to no labour laws regarding number of hours or workplace health and safety - that makes it cheaper too. Much cheaper.

Wood is still wood, sure. But there are woods and then there are woods, right? I mean, consider how you can cut corners - make a body out of four pieces of mahogany instead of two or one. Select cheaper, inferior woods that don't sound as good. Make a body out of ugly wood, then cover it up with a solid paint job. Sell SG knock-offs using cheap Asian tonewoods (their own local product) rather than the classic mahogany. Take a maple cap for an LP type and slim it down so your wood goes farther.

There's lots of way to make them dirt cheap. Not all of those methods will make for a great guitar you'll want to play and keep forever.


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

al3d said:


> OK..was realy curious so emailed them..hehe. the Add is in BC, but that's bogus, these guys are direct in china. here is the reply from my mail.. There is a link in his or her's reply for a ton of other models.
> 
> hi, friend
> Thanks for your letter, i hope you will excuse me for not having replied to you until now. i think i should introduce myself first, i am a guitar seller in beijing, china, and that guitar is AAA quality, i think you have understood this, because you say that price is 300$ with case. in US, yes, but friend, we also need send the guitar to your country, and that's heavy, so the postage is not cheap.but if you really want it, i can give you 450US with case including the postage to your country. i can make sure you will satisfy with it, because we have lots of customers all over the world, each week they order from my factory. as for my website, i think you can open it today.
> ...



lol, So he actually is selling guitars. The guitars in all of the photos all look legit though, obviously they aren't the ones he is sending. Notice how he has a selection of like 200 guitars but no catalog or website listing them? I wonder if he just sends out the ZW Les Paul. You should string him along and see if he let's you pick one of the other guitars, like one of the PRS or one of the firebird. I imagine he says they are all sold out and only have a few left.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

dwagar said:


> I see they counterfeit Ibanez and BC Rich too.
> 
> If you're buying a used Gibson, I know you can call them to confirm the serial number matches the guitar. I'm not sure about the other manufacturers, but I would guess they would offer the same service.


Good idea. Sometimes the counterfeiters get a little sloppy with the serial number.























And anybody want to start a list on what is wrong with this "Gretsch"?


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

biggreen said:


> lol, So he actually is selling guitars. The guitars in all of the photos all look legit though, obviously they aren't the ones he is sending. Notice how he has a selection of like 200 guitars but no catalog or website listing them? I wonder if he just sends out the ZW Les Paul. You should string him along and see if he let's you pick one of the other guitars, like one of the PRS or one of the firebird. I imagine he says they are all sold out and only have a few left.


i actually asked...ALL models are available.


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

al3d said:


> i actually asked...ALL models are available.


It doesn;t make sense why he would be counterfieting so many diferent guitars. He even has some Epi Les Pauls. WTH would you counterfiet and epi studio? Fenders, Gibsons, PRS,s Ibanez, Rickenbacker, BC Rich... how big is this factory? LOL. The guitars even have the static cling graphics for the pick ups on the gibsons and the backplates of the strats. I have a hard time believe there is a factory out there essential counterfeiting every major brand of guitar so accurately (from a pictures point of view anyway) And what? they are all $450 shipped?


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

bobb said:


> Good idea. Sometimes the counterfeiters get a little sloppy with the serial number.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where did you get these photos? I looked through all 400 and didn't see these. There were none that had a Payless guitars logo and non that had 3 headstocks in a row.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

It actually appears that there are several factories doing this. some don't try as hard as others though.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

thing is, if they were of even the slightest quality, they would use their own brand name, not stoop to counterfeiting to try to make a sale. There are some decent, inexpensive imports that DO use their own brand. Support those guys because they are at least real.

heck, even beyond that, buy local. 
About a year ago a friend called, he noticed Mothers Music was clearing some of their Yamahas. I picked up a big box AE500, brand new, for $299. And, it included a cert to send away and Yamaha shipped me a hardshell case and a 40th Anniversary TShirt. The AE500 is sunburst, layout is basic 2 humbucker Gibson, even has a volute on the neck like the 70s. I had to touch up the fret ends (Mothers would have done it for me) and fix a cap that was shorting out. Made in Indonesia. But, for $300, it's great. And it says Yamaha on the headstock.

here's what $300 can get you, brand new, buying local, if you're in the right place at the right time


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

i actually talked to another seller from china who offers the SAME stuff. There are MANY factories in china that make clones, all own by the same company. Each factory makes a special brand. So one would make Gibson, the other Fenders, etc etc.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

biggreen said:


> Where did you get these photos? I looked through all 400 and didn't see these. There were none that had a Payless guitars logo and non that had 3 headstocks in a row.


Payless guitars is another counterfeiter in China. The Tele headstocks are three separate pictures. I pulled those from an old post I made on a different forum about the same subject.


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

So who wants to start pointing out the inconsitancies in his guitars. The all look pretty authentic to me, I can see counterfeiting basic les pauls like gold/painted tops and that but he has models that have figured tops, dragon inlays and his pics are alot higher res than that grainy gretch pic.

If these are all counterfeits I would love to see one in person, because he has got me fooled with these pics. The inlays even shimmer like abalony in a lot of the pics.

The one thing I did notice that seemed weird was the Gibson with the bolt on neck. http://picasaweb.google.com/jinhui197510/GibsonGuitar/photo?authkey=dT7E_Zv4G7g#5130472180247675650 Whats up with that?

And WHT would you counterfeit a low Epiphone SG? An forget to put the bridge and dials on? lol

http://picasaweb.google.com/jinhui197510/GibsonGuitar/photo?authkey=dT7E_Zv4G7g#5130474005608777538


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

OK, what is "right" about this Ric?
http://picasaweb.google.com/jinhui197510/GibsonGuitar/photo?authkey=dT7E_Zv4G7g#5130471789405651474


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

What is "wrong" with this Les Paul Custom shop?
http://picasaweb.google.com/jinhui197510/GibsonGuitar/photo?authkey=dT7E_Zv4G7g#5130474409335703618








http://picasaweb.google.com/jinhui197510/GibsonGuitar/photo?authkey=dT7E_Zv4G7g#5130474383565899826












How do you contact gibson to authenticate serial numbers?
http://picasaweb.google.com/jinhui197510/GibsonGuitar/photo?authkey=dT7E_Zv4G7g#5130474486645114994


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I am seeing fake Gibsons all over Kijiji lately.


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## Guest (Mar 31, 2008)

bobb said:


> OK, what is "right" about this Ric?
> http://picasaweb.google.com/jinhui197510/GibsonGuitar/photo?authkey=dT7E_Zv4G7g#5130471789405651474


OMG that thing is _HILARIOUS_! Where do you start? Although...I kind of dig the colour. If it was transparent instead of solid it'd be pretty rocking.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

iaresee said:


> OMG that thing is _HILARIOUS_! Where do you start? Although...I kind of dig the colour. If it was transparent instead of solid it'd be pretty rocking.


Foamglo???


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

bobb said:


> Foamglo???


Bilegreen?


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

devnulljp said:


> Bilegreen?


In the spirit of Rickenbacker terminology, how about "Bilegreenglo"?


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

biggreen said:


> How do you contact gibson to authenticate serial numbers?
> 
> don't even bother Gibson. Look at the headstock shape, and it appears they shrink down the 8 1/2 x 11 'Certificate of Authenticity' to 4x5 to fit in the case, lol.


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## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

biggreen said:


> What is "wrong" with this Les Paul Custom shop?
> http://picasaweb.google.com/jinhui197510/GibsonGuitar/photo?authkey=dT7E_Zv4G7g#5130474409335703618
> 
> 
> ...



Just about everything you can see in the photos is wrong.

The custom shop logo shouldn't be there.
The inlay on the fretboard (eewww!)
The knobs are not in the right places.
The tailpiece doesn't belong on a LP, or any solidbody guitar for that matter.
The cutaway is the wrong shape.

This guitar is just screaming _fugazzi_.

Not a bad burst on that veneer, though!


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

Lol, okay, so you are saying this is not based on any actual Les Paul custom shop model? It really doesn't make sense to me that they would counterfeit guitars and then come up with their own designs, especially the inlay. It may be tacky but you can't deny the craftsmanship that would go into a detail like that., or the one with the snake inlay. I can see the inconsitancies in designs when they are pointed out compared with the originals but none of them look cheaply made. It's too bad that they don't offer these guitars under their own banner threw legit channels for a reasonable price instead of ripping people off on Craigslist.

I can tell you one thing, this has been a big eye opener for me and I will never buy another guitar over the internet or second hand threw classifieds again for that matter, lol. If they are offering this sort of selection in this many models then if the market isn't litterd with these it is only a matter of time.


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