# If I Power An Analogman Sunface With...



## Guest (Nov 4, 2018)

If I power an Analogman Sunface through the 9v adapter with a 9v battery (using a 9v clip to barrel cable), is it the same as plugging a 9v battery to the internal 9v clip? If so I will put it on my board battery powered so I can test or change the battery externally very easily compared to undoing the 4 screws and taking the back off.

I know I can test it out easily enough, but just wondering if anyone has the technical answer.

I am not sure if this is enough or accurate enough to be useful.

Guitar FX Layouts: Analogman Sunface NKT275

Here is another one that is more conventional, again I am not sure about the accuracy:


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

If you mean use one of these, ya it works great. I saw Phil McKnight post it a couple years ago and have been using it ever since to power my tuner.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2018)

That's the one. It may not bother a tuner but Sunfaces can be finicky and noisy. I wonder if there are components they put on the 9v power adapter jack path that differ from the internal battery clip path or vice versa.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

I’ve used it on a bunch of different pedals when I just want to use one or two without a whole board. You can’t get more isolated than a separate battery. Give it s whirl.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2018)

BSTheTech said:


> I’ve used it on a bunch of different pedals when I just want to use one or two without a whole board. You can’t get more isolated than a separate battery. Give it s whirl.


I have a couple of those I have collected over the years. Where do you get them if you need some? Cheap?


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

I ordered a handful from Godlyke. I think $5 a piece.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Voodoo Lab - 9V Battery Snap Cable and 2.1mm Right Angle Barrel Cable


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2018)

One Spot multi cable gets 8 ends for $20
Truetone - 1 Spot Multi-Plug 8 Cable










Next Gen Guitars has the snap ends with wire 5 for $6.79
9V Battery Terminals (Pkg 5)












I guess not much savings this way...


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Player99 said:


> One Spot multi cable gets 8 ends for $20
> Truetone - 1 Spot Multi-Plug 8 Cable
> 
> 
> ...


Fuzz pedals dont like to share power, best to use and isolated output or a battery. Daisy chains will just get you frustrated.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Fuzz Faces are positive ground. If you don’t use an isolated power supply you could damage the fuzz and any other pedal that’s connected to it, along with the power supply itself.

Beyond that, in a Fuzz Face circuit the inductance of the battery is part of the tone circuit. It’s why changing from a carbon-zinc to an alkaline battery changes the way they sound, and why just about nobody recommends powering a Fuzz Face from a power supply.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

_Azrael said:


> Fuzz Faces are positive ground. If you don’t use an isolated power supply you could damage the fuzz and any other pedal that’s connected to it, along with the power supply itself.
> 
> Beyond that, in a Fuzz Face circuit the inductance of the battery is part of the tone circuit. It’s why changing from a carbon-zinc to an alkaline battery changes the way they sound, and why just about nobody recommends powering a Fuzz Face from a power supply.


Part of this I will endorse. Other parts I am not quite as enthusiastic about.
Yes, conventional outide-pos-/negative-tip supplies can NOT be used with this pedal, because it has a positive ground. Since the typical 2.1mm jack is not connected to the chassis, one has the latitude to use the external battery adaptor shown, which flips the connections in a manner appropriate to such pedals. DO NOT use it to power other negative-ground pedals. If you get one or more (and if you're in the neighbourhood, Richard, I can throw one together for you), make sure you visually distinguish them clearly so you don't end up trying to power anything with reverse power. Some manufacturers will use what is referred to as a "charge-pump" chip to manipulate what it gets from an external +9VDC supply. This can involve doubling or tripling it, where high headroom is required, creating a bipolar (+/-) supply from what starts out as a positive-only supply, or inverting the supply voltage (which is essentially creating a bipolar supply, but leaving the positive part out). Here is a nice little collection of diagrams and circuits for doing all of that. Charge Pumps | General Guitar Gadgets

As for carbon-zinc vs alkaline, I will agree that the in/famous "dying battery" sound that some love in a germanium Fuzz Face, comes from a weakened carbon-zinc battery, and will not come from an alkaline, simply because of the way they each recover from sudden demands on their current-delivery capacity in a weakened state. If you stick in a new battery of either type, however, all battery-related differences disappear.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Player99 said:


> That's the one. It may not bother a tuner but Sunfaces can be finicky and noisy. I wonder if there are components they put on the 9v power adapter jack path that differ from the internal battery clip path or vice versa.


A lot of pedals have extra filtering on the wall power input vs the battery. This is because battery is ‘clean’ DC and wall power is converted from AC and therefore ( depending on how good your power supply is) more inconsistant as regards voltage. The battery will diw slowly and drop in coltage over time. But wall power from a rypical wallwort will fluctuate from moment to moment. Higher end power supplies are better in this regard because they have more filtering as well as proper regulation.

This may or may not make a difference.

That said, I used ton run my vintage MXR Encelope Filter that way due to only having a battery power option.


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2018)

Chitmo said:


> Fuzz pedals dont like to share power, best to use and isolated output or a battery. Daisy chains will just get you frustrated.


I was suggesting making my own battery power cables by cutting off the plugs and soldering them to the battery clips, making individual cables. Sorry I didn't make that clear.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Chitmo said:


> Fuzz pedals dont like to share power, best to use and isolated output or a battery. Daisy chains will just get you frustrated.


This is not an accurate statement - only positive ground fuzzes (that use PNP vs now more standard NPN transistors) don't play well with others on a daisy chain because the ground is on the + vs the - .

I believe the Sunface is NPN.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Granny Gremlin said:


> This is not an accurate statement - only positive ground fuzzes (that use PNP vs now more standard NPN transistors) don't play well with others on a daisy chain because the ground is on the + vs the - .
> 
> I believe the Sunface is NPN.


It depends...



“Analogman” said:


> The germanium versions are reverse polarity, so sharing a power source with a normal polarity pedal will blow out the power supply.
> 
> *We do not require using a reverse polarity plug on any of our pedals. Use normal center negative boss type power supply wiring, even if it's a germanium sunface. This does NOT mean you can share power with another pedal though. *
> 
> ...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> This is not an accurate statement - only positive ground fuzzes (that use PNP vs now more standard NPN transistors) don't play well with others on a daisy chain because the ground is on the + vs the - .
> 
> I believe the Sunface is NPN.


Finding NPN germanium transistors is difficult. Finding PNP type not nearly as hard. So, while I imagine some germanium fuzzes ARE negative ground, and play nice with regular power bricks, they will be in the minority.

Given that the components involved in producing a proper negative voltage with a positive ground aren't all that big or expensive, I'm surprised no one makes an in-line adaptor that you stick your normal 2.1mm plug into and then stick the adaptor's plug into the pedal, preserving a common ground but supplying a negative voltage.

Think of it this way. Many circuits/devices that use a wall supply directly (i.e., they come with a cord and AC plug) will provide a +/- supply voltage and a ground. Some circuits are capable of using only the positive supply voltage and faking a ground, AKA "reference voltage (often shown as Vref). GE fuzzes, and similar are simply using only the negative side. The trick is maintaining the same chassis ground across all of the things in your pedal chain.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Player99 said:


> If I power an Analogman Sunface through the 9v adapter with a 9v battery (using a 9v clip to barrel cable), is it the same as plugging a 9v battery to the internal 9v clip? If so I will put it on my board battery powered so I can test or change the battery externally very easily compared to undoing the 4 screws and taking the back off.
> 
> I know I can test it out easily enough, but just wondering if anyone has the technical answer.
> 
> ...


I'm not so sure of its accuracy either. That ground connection on the "Sundial" doesn't look like it should be there. Normally, that is simply a variable resistance with no ground connection. Same thing with the input trimmer. I suspect anyone attempting to make a unit from this drawing will meet with disappointment.


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