# Over the years-what has gotten worse?



## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

The world has made some very important strides lately, most notably medical advances, space exploration, green technology, computer science and more reliable vehicles. However some things were better in earlier times. 

Look at how many hockey sticks are breaking.

Why does my refrigerator conk out every seven or eight years? My mother had one that lasted over 30!

And I can't seem to buy a decent guitar cord that doesn't crackle and hum. I never had that problem in the 1960s! 

And the yard tools can't compare with those my father had, with hard wood handles and thick gage steel. I still use some of his implements, especially a shovel that says "York Township" on it!

So what else has gone backward in this rapidly progressing world? I imagine we can come up with a lot!


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

The quality of our youth - thanks to the quality of our parenting.


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

Common sense and manners have back slid severely.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Swervin55 said:


> Common sense and manners have back slid severely.


Definitely. And I think the fact that today's society seems to always come up with excuses for human lapses, whether they're attributed to upbringing, culture, history, life experiences or psychological frailties. Years ago ignorant assholes were ignorant assholes and no plethora of excuses were on the menu.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

My nose. Runs constantly, from the moment I'm verticaL in the morning. Drives me nuts.

Canadian quarters. They _should_ have a caribou on one side and the Queen on the other. BUt they seem to crank out a new commemorative one every other week. I have to check my change all the time now, just to be certain I'm not trying to pay someone with amusement-park tokens or something. I used to be able to rely on the weight, metal colour, and diameter to tell them apart, but now I can't tell. Hmmm, Wayne & Shuster on one side, and a trillium on the other. Is that one of ours?


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

The affordability of buying a house for the average working class family.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Appliance cords. I hate it when I buy a toaster, kettle or coffeemaker and find out it has a really short cord. You either have to use an extension or park it right beside an outlet, which is usually in an inappropriate place. In the old days most small appliances came with 4 foot cords so you could put them nearly anywhere.


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

My guitar playing and/or my sex life. I think I could play better and last longer in either case back in the day. Old age sucks.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

fredyfreeloader said:


> My guitar playing and/or my sex life. I think I could play better and last longer in either case back in the day. Old age sucks.


I'm not worried about my guitar playing and what I used to do all night now takes me all night to do but no one's complaining. 'bout the only thing that's gotten worse is when the wife grabs a handful of hair to give "guidance" and the hair comes out. Other than that life is pretty damned good.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

The number of products made in Canada...........


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Popular music.

(dons haz mat anti flame suit)


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2015)

public employee's sense of entitlement.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

The environment. Period. We've fucked it up royal.

I started life with more body parts than I have now, so there's been some degradation, but at least I still function within reasonable parameters. I can't say the same for coffee makers, toasters, and blenders that don't last past their warranty period, or just barely...and the damn things can't be repaired cheaper than replaced.

Garden hoses. What gives? 

Peace, Mooh.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

mhammer said:


> I have to check my change all the time now, just to be certain I'm not trying to pay someone with amusement-park tokens or something.


The REAL problem is that you have an amusement park addiction if this happens to you all the time! We're always here if you need someone to talk to, man.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Seems to me that engineering is more about making things cheaper, not better these days. So I am saying the whole field of engineering has gotten worse.


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

Toasters
Chocolate
Cream Corn
Rap Music

I think kids have always been a mixed bag. Old people always complain about the youth of today. Gives them something to do. When I go to the play park with my kids, there seems to be a mix of 8 year olds screaming the F word and nice, shy kids that are polite and wait there turn.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Many things seem to be getting more complicated and my trust in products and services is diminishing.

Cheers

Dave


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

My knees, my weight, my energy levels. But on the bright side, there has been an increase in the number of things I don't give a rat's a** about.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

CBC Radio. There seems to be no point in listening to it.

Remember Peter Gzowski, Basic Black, Double Exposure, The Hum Line, Dead Dog Café? Its just gone down hill.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Everything is being made in China or some 3rd world country. What happened to Canadian made?

One thing that has improved with age is my mindset! I don't really give a rat's ass as to how others think of me. That in itself is a huge relief! I am who I am and if you don't like me, too bad! 

I have too many days behind and less in front of me to worry about the sweating the small stuff!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I loved and miss each and every one of those (buggers in senior management never did pony up the dough to get Louis Riel on DDC). But you know, there are going to be folks who thought all of _that_ was so much shite, and miss the days when CBC Radio gave us Max Ferguson, Don Harron, Juliet, Don Messer, and that dry kids comedy show, "Rod and <somebody whose name I forget>".

Nope, I think Radio One's quality has been well-maintained, even as much as I grumble about every programming change. The Irrelevant Show, Wiretap, and This is That are fine substitutes for Double Exposure and Dead Dog Café, even if they are different in many ways. You can't do better than CBC: Ideas on any university campus anywhere, and As It Happens has maintained its values and quality across many different hosts. Pretty much the only thing I miss that has not been replaced by something of equal quality is the radio dramas, which CBC had always excelled at. I don't know that there is anything equal to the calibre of Afghanada, or that detective series that Gzowski had, called Midnight Cab. Hell, Afghanada likely did more for vets than Veterans Affairs ever did.

If you want to point fingers at The Corporation, point 'em at the TV side. The radio side is pretty much as good as it gets.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

Corporate influence on everything from politics to how many "choices" we're told we have.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

I suspect I'm one of the younger guys in the crowd at 40 but I definitely do notice a lot corners getting cut in our current society and it's frustrating as hell.

For one, manufacturing...no matter what it is it seems to be made to be replaced and that replacement period is getting shorter and shorter. From cars to appliances...from furniture to tools...it's all made to be REPLACED. Because the intent for most of these products is to continually replace them (great for corporate bottom lines) the manufacturing industry has transformed from one of where pride and workmanship were paramount to one where speed and cost are top priorities.

That mentality seems to be creeping into every facet of society, too. I see it my kids and their school work...hurry up and get it done so they can get going on the next assignment. I can look through any of the colouring books we have around the house and I can tell the moment they stopped caring about that particular picture and were on to the next one. It's SO FRUSTRATING.

And the manners thing...MY GOD. We were walking out of the mall on the weekend and a lady held the door open for my 8-year old and she didn't say thank you. Well, I lost it. I thanked the lady for holding the door for my daughter and promptly took away "tech time" from my daughter and she didn't understand why. So I told her why and she tells me that she didn't know that somebody else had held the door open for her and thought it was my wife or I. I asked her if she thought it was one of us why don't we deserve a polite thank you? And she says we're supposed to hold the door open for her because we're her parents. OMG. More "tech time" was lost after that comment.


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## Guest (Apr 29, 2015)

johnnyshaka said:


> ..no matter what it is it seems to be made to be replaced ..


Most of what we have is old. Tools, garden implements, furniture etc. Toaster oven is 
an old black and decker that we bought at a garage sale 20 years ago for $3. Still working 
great. Even the stereo I listen to is an old Pioneer (wood casing) with Jensen speakers from 
the 60's. So yeah, quantity over quality is the game of manufacturing today.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Robert1950 said:


> The affordability of buying a house for the average working class family.


The stats don't agree. houses are more expensive, but in some sense "more affordable" than ever...low interest rates 2-3% today vs upwards of 12% a few decades ago, and credit was much harder to get and with much bigger down payments than what the CMHC requires.
Now its arguable that those might not all be good things, as its generated a lot of credit/debt issues...but certainly more people can technically afford to own a house vs renting today vs several decades ago when renting houses was far more common place. Most rentals today are apartments. 

for me, the biggest change is in food...product ingredient decks are downright scary....unprocessed food is more bland tasting as well. but its prettier, bigger and has a longer shelf life.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...g-the-dorito-effect/article24151856/comments/


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Language.

I'm not averse to the introduction of new words, but I find the precision in language declining.

Linguists produce and have frequency-of-use tables, compiled from a broad sampling of materials, both oral and written, so as to give an idea of how many times, within 10,000 words, a given word might be used, whether in print, or in conversation. I was looking at one of these some years back, and was rather struck by how easy it was to reconstruct a typical conversation of someone under 25, using the top 100 words. Because, I was, like, you know...really...I mean...really...and they were, like, no way. Even Robert Munsch books have a bigger vocabulary.

Socio-linguist Basil Bernstein distinguished between two polar opposites of discourse: what he referred to as *restricted* and *elaborated* code. Elaborated code is largely what we encounter with formal reading materials, such as instructions. The full message is conveyed, without relying on something that the reader and writer have already shared. In other words, it stands on its own. By contrast, restricted code is discourse that presumes shared knowledge. This is what permits "You want some?", "Nah", "You sure?", "Yeah" to actually have meaning and communicate something in daily life. The participants share a context such that the conveyance of the intended message and meaning does not require as much. The shared context essentially reduces the burden on the communicator.

Restricted code is the hallmark of adolescent and youthful conversation. Indeed, some would argue that adolescent and youth speech is deliberately reliant on shared context and background knowledge so as to exclude others who are not part of their social group or generation. Some would view this as one of the tools young people use to establish their sense of identity and separateness from parents and other adults. Speaking in a way that older persons will not easily comprehend is a way of saying "I'm not you. I'm me."

That is all well and good, but as society has become ever more focussed on young persons (largely because of the disposable income they have and their collective consumer power), restricted code has invaded many areas of life where it ought not to be. Speech that ought to be much more explicit and articulate is downgraded to something much vaguer. Like, y'know what I'm sayin'. Word.

Why do I find this discouraging? Because as human migration and societal diversity increases, the challenge of understanding each other, on both a pure informational level and an emotional level, increases. Languages have evolved so as to have the power of precision in order that people don't misunderstand each other, and don't become argumentative and mistrusting and uncooperative as a result of _lack_ of precision.

So while I am happy to use restricted code when the situation calls for it, the increasing inability of people to use elaborated code, and precision in language, and rely on restricted code, slang, and unspoken shared assumptions, is dismaying and does not bode well for a future where people can get along because they have made themselves understood to each other.

Pretty pedantic, huh? But true, AND scary.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

There are many, many good and valid points in this thread.

Many of the things mentioned bother me as well. Some other things that stand out is.

Marriage commitment. Way too many people are divorcing these days rather than making the changes to keep their marriage strong and together.

Love. There is a lack of love that is becoming more alarming each year. Violence, especially domestic violence, abortions, family breakups and concern for our fellow man is at epidemic proportions.


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## Beatles (Feb 7, 2006)

Traffic congestion, lack of federal and provincial government accountability and transperancy.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> There are many, many good and valid points in this thread.
> 
> Many of the things mentioned bother me as well. Some other things that stand out is.
> 
> ...


re: bolded, I wonder about this one...are people seeing marriage as more disposable these days, or did more people in the good 'ole days just accept and suffer through unhappy, sometimes abusive marriages due to social and religious stigmas and legal encumbrances? I suspect its a bit of both.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

There's an interesting thing that happens when social phenomena reach a critical incidence level: people stop taking steps to prevent or avoid it.

I noticed this when I was living on Vancouver Island and teaching at a campus that had a fair number of First Nation students. I was taken aback by how many had both experienced problems with alcohol as adults or young adults, and were comfortable talking about it. And let me be clear about this: they all thought it was a lousy thing to go through, and a burden on themselves and everyone around them. But they saw it happening with such frequency around them that their response was essentially "Well, what can you do? It happens." There was no scandal attached to it, so there were fewer steps taken to avoiding it in the first place.

t got me thinking. The same is true of so many other things. Once upon a time, unwed teenage mothers were whisked away somewhere, and parents would exert far more oversight on the comings and goings of their daughters because they wanted to avoid the scandal and shame that came with unwed pregancy and "bastardy". Same thing with divorce, or being a school dropout, being unemployed, and plenty of other things.

The basic principle is that when something occurs rarely enough, or is at least _perceived_ to occur rarely, people will treat its occurrence as scandalous and shameful, and take steps to avoid it if at all possible. But once it happens often enough that it stops being a source of scandal and shame, people stop doing what it takes to avoid it in the first place.

Again, that doesn't mean they LIKE it any more, if it happens to them. They just aren't quite as motivated to take preventative steps.

And so it is with divorce and breakups. People don't plan on doing it, and they don't like when it happens. But based on the prevalence they see around them, they view it as something that just happens, so they don't do as much up front to make sure that it _never_ happens.

I think there is also something to be said for the impact of increasing urbanization. Small-town rural life creates certain pressures that don't exist in large cities:
1) There is limited choice in smaller places, so you have good reason to stick with the one you've got, and less reason to start wondering if you picked the right one out of the barrel in the first place. Or more succinctly: less temptation.;
2) The potential for scandal and shame is increased when one is part of a smaller social network that is well aware of everyone else's business;
3) The potential for shifting to a different social circle is greatly reduced in smaller towns. In a city, you can always make new friends who weren't among the people you had over to the house every Thanksgiving. Harder to do in a town of 800.

So the sheer choice available, and potential for anonymity and abandonment of uncomrtable relationships/networks in big cities increases the likelihood of divorce. The more of us live in cities, the more the divorce rate climbs.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

mhammer said:


> So the sheer choice available, and potential for anonymity and abandonment of uncomrtable relationships/networks in big cities increases the likelihood of divorce. The more of us live in cities, the more the divorce rate climbs.


Also the earning power of women in the last half of the 20th century has increased their ability to get out of relationships that aren't working. With the option to leave being much easier to attain people won't be as likely to "stick it out" when it gets boring. On the good side it allows people the option of getting out of abusive situations that too many woman had to put up with in the past to keep up appearances.


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

I agree with you mhammer about language. People laugh at me when I use a big word. What bothers me with language is the written word in regards to forum posts and text messages. People don't spell correct, use capitalization or punctuation. Its frustrating. I was trying to give a T.V. away for free. The e-mail I received from one particular college aged girl was terrible. I was left with the feeling that she both did and did not want the T.V. The other half of the message, I have no idea what it was. It should be second hand to everyone to write a clear and concise message. Is that not what school is for? Learning reading and writing?


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

we're too good at killin each other


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

mhammer said:


> ...And so it is with divorce and breakups. People don't plan on doing it, and they don't like when it happens. But based on the prevalence they see around them, they view it as something that just happens, so they don't do as much up front to make sure that it _never_ happens...


I agree with your entire post. But in addition to the fear of scandal and the diminishing backlash in the face of it, there's a serious lack of commitment these days to almost everything. Education, jobs, relationships (not just marriage but friendships as well). There are exceptions to everything, of course, but it seems a lot of today's individuals have a poor sense of direction.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Hamstrung said:


> Also the earning power of women in the last half of the 20th century has increased their ability to get out of relationships that aren't working. With the option to leave being much easier to attain people won't be as likely to "stick it out" when it gets boring. On the good side it allows people the option of getting out of abusive situations that too many woman had to put up with in the past to keep up appearances.


Excellent point. Hmmm, maybe Pope Francis might have second thoughts on his comments today about pay inequity between men and women.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

> I agree with your entire post. But in addition to the fear of scandal and the diminishing backlash in the face of it, there's a serious lack of commitment these days to almost everything. Education, jobs, relationships (not just marriage but friendships as well). There are exceptions to everything, of course, but it seems a lot of today's individuals have a poor sense of direction.



Thanks. I agree with your point, but I would personally connect that drop in commitment to the increase in choice.

Keep in mind that with the plethora of gear out there, you would think that folks would be easily able to find their dream rig and stick with it for life, right? But no. The more choice there is, the more people go through gear, buying and selling, fruitlessly in search of something.....else.

Nope more choice breeds less commitment. Though that does negate your basic point.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Swervin55 said:


> I agree with your entire post. But in addition to the fear of scandal and the diminishing backlash in the face of it, there's a serious lack of commitment these days to almost everything. Education, jobs, relationships (not just marriage but friendships as well). There are exceptions to everything, of course, but it seems a lot of today's individuals have a poor sense of direction.


Commitment _is_ an important factor. My wife and I were best friends when we got married which is great start, but the first few years were difficult and our differences became very evident. Family interference put us on the rocks, but we held on and we now have a great marriage - 38 years and counting. I think today most couples having similar challenges would pack it in, which is really unfortunate. Good marriages need a lot of work especially in the early years, and many couples are just throwing up their hands and giving up.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It'll be 34 years for me and mine on Thursday.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Re: education. 

Sadly, I believe that Charlotte Iserbyt was bang on concerning the US education system and we're somehow getting hit with the shrapnel. Now, with what's happening with sex education, my beliefs are strengthened.

Listen to her talk about the push to becoming a tradesman. She's dead on.

[video=youtube;YZI2JOPoTZA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZI2JOPoTZA[/video]

The fact that we stopped smacking our kids and offer rewards for good behaviour will contribute to our downfall. Here's a current article that strengthens Iserbyt's 'ramblings' recently written by Caroline Fairchild (New Economy Editor at LinkedIn)

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/problems-keeps-both-ceo-deloitte-box-awake-night-caroline-fairchild

Everything's a mess.


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2015)

dcole said:


> What bothers me with language is the written word in regards to forum posts and text
> messages. People don't spell correct, use capitalization or punctuation. Its frustrating.


I find it more annoying when I'm reading a newspaper.
What happened to proofreaders?


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Too many people just throw in the towel on a lot of things. Things are too easy! 

I absolutely hate the way some people text! Ur = you're/your r = are u = you 2 morrow = a given b4 = before gr8t = great( what's one more letter??) etc. One that pisses me off is Thx U = thank you! Be polite and type the whole two words out dammit! My boss of all people texts like this! She is supposed set an example. She's almost 50 and she texts like a 16 year old. What is the world coming to?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

johnnyshaka said:


> I suspect I'm one of the younger guys in the crowd at 40 but I definitely do notice a lot corners getting cut in our current society and it's frustrating as hell.
> 
> For one, manufacturing...no matter what it is it seems to be made to be replaced and that replacement period is getting shorter and shorter. From cars to appliances...from furniture to tools...it's all made to be REPLACED. Because the intent for most of these products is to continually replace them (great for corporate bottom lines) the manufacturing industry has transformed from one of where pride and workmanship were paramount to one where speed and cost are top priorities.
> 
> ...


Your kid has ''tech time''? What about play time? You know, tossing a ball around or riding a bike, things like taht.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Diablo said:


> The stats don't agree. houses are more expensive, but in some sense "more affordable" than ever...low interest rates 2-3% today vs upwards of 12% a few decades ago, and credit was much harder to get and with much bigger down payments than what the CMHC requires.
> Now its arguable that those might not all be good things, as its generated a lot of credit/debt issues...but certainly more people can technically afford to own a house vs renting today vs several decades ago when renting houses was far more common place. Most rentals today are apartments. P
> 
> for me, the biggest change is in food...product ingredient decks are downright scary....unprocessed food is more bland tasting as well. but its prettier, bigger and has a longer shelf life.
> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...g-the-dorito-effect/article24151856/comments/


In '70 my mortgage payment was 1/3 of my monthly income. My mortgage today is the same. We bought this time 'cause it's a lot cheaper to own than to rent. Rent on the mainfloor of the house next door is $400 more than our mortgage payment. We have an older....1962....house so we wctually have a front and a back yard. 
Going back several decades....the '60s and '70s.....I can't remember too many people who rented houses. Especially after getting married and starting a family.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> Your kid has ''tech time''? What about play time? You know, tossing a ball around or riding a bike, things like taht.


Things were simpler when my kids were young! I would take away their "outside after dinner play time" with all their friends. It's was agony for them because they could hear there friends outside having a great time. That was enough to get them to straighten up and fly right! 

OR

I would make them stand in the corner on a time out for 1/2 hour. That was successful too!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Lola said:


> Things were simpler when my kids were young! I would take away their "outside after dinner play time" with all their friends. It's was agony for them because they could hear there friends outside having a great time. That was enough to get them to straighten up and fly right!
> 
> OR
> 
> I would make them stand in the corner on a time out for 1/2 hour. That was successful too!


In my family when you hear your full name spoken....especially by an older female, you jump. Doesn't matter how old you are. And when I mentioned 'tech time' I didn't mean taking it away, I saw in the back of my mind some small child sitting playing with a phone or a tablet, something like that. My gran daughters play. They have a fort in the back yard, bikes and a small motorcycle, they go to local parks....things like that. They also each have their own corner etc.. They each have their own tablets and a computer here but that doesn't take up too nuch time. The computer is for music for them dancing and such in the basement.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> In my family when you hear your full name spoken....especially by an older female, you jump. Doesn't matter how old you are. And when I mentioned 'tech time' I didn't mean taking it away, I saw in the back of my mind some small child sitting playing with a phone or a tablet, something like that. My gran daughters play. They have a fort in the back yard, bikes and a small motorcycle, they go to local parks....things like that. They also each have their own corner etc.. They each have their own tablets and a computer here but that doesn't take up too nuch time. The computer is for music for them dancing and such in the basement.


I remember be a rough and tumble tom boy! I would climb trees for the sheer entertainment because my mom told me not to. We used to play Double Dutch skipping rope games. We would get all the neighborhood kids together and play hide and go seek when it got dark. My friends and I used to go off over to the new housing developments and explore the somewhat finished houses. We would pack a lunch and be gone all day long. Pick wild strawberries in the field. Target shoot with bows and arrows. So much to do and you were always on the go. 

In the winter my father would rake the garden under, put some boards up, pack some snow down, spray it and voila an ice rink. We would go tobogganing, snowshoeing, making snowmen, snowball fights and making igloos. Then come in for home made chicken soup. We had it made when I was growing up!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Lola said:


> I remember be a rough and tumble tom boy! I would climb trees for the sheer entertainment because my mom told me not to. We used to play Double Dutch skipping rope games. We would get all the neighborhood kids together and play hide and go seek when it got dark. My friends and I used to go off over to the new housing developments and explore the somewhat finished houses. We would pack a lunch and be gone all day long. Pick wild strawberries in the field. Target shoot with bows and arrows. So much to do and you were always on the go.
> 
> In the winter my father would rake the garden under, put some boards up, pack some snow down, spray it and voila an ice rink. We would go tobogganing, snowshoeing, making snowmen, snowball fights and making igloos. Then come in for home made chicken soup. We had it made when I was growing up!


Sounds a lot like my childhood (except for the housing developments). The more I look back the more my childhood resembles a hallmark card.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

Lola said:


> Too many people just throw in the towel on a lot of things. Things are too easy!
> 
> I absolutely hate the way some people text! Ur = you're/your r = are u = you 2 morrow = a given b4 = before gr8t = great( what's one more letter??) etc. One that pisses me off is Thx U = thank you! Be polite and type the whole two words out dammit! My boss of all people texts like this! She is supposed set an example. She's almost 50 and she texts like a 16 year old. What is the world coming to?



...makes you wanna say

[video=youtube_share;m_mDTLphIVY]http://youtu.be/m_mDTLphIVY[/video]


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Krelf said:


> Commitment _is_ an important factor. My wife and I were best friends when we got married which is great start, but the first few years were difficult and our differences became very evident. Family interference put us on the rocks, but we held on and we now have a great marriage - 38 years and counting. I think today most couples having similar challenges would pack it in, which is really unfortunate. Good marriages need a lot of work especially in the early years, and many couples are just throwing up their hands and giving up.


I think another factor in the commitment issue, is the age that people are getting married now vs 50 yrs ago.
I know very few people in my peer group that got married before 30, myself included. Most of the ones I know that got married earlier, were as mhammer noted, from small towns.
the problem with later marriages, as ive experienced, is both people tend to be very set in their ways, often defiantly uncompromising, and you don't have that sense of "needing somebody" as you did when you were younger. They've learned to live life contentedly single, have had enough relationships that they do see them as somewhat transient, found fulfillment in other things like their careers, and the importance of marriage becomes diminished.
As important as independence is, a "take me as I am, I don't need to change to please anybody" attititude can be problematic in a partnership. We wouldn't cop that attitude at our work place (successfully).
I think theres also been the rise of a womans ego(similar to the one men were known for)...when my wife and I got married and she mentioned to some of her friends that she would be taking my name, a few of them reacted in disgust, as if it were akin to slavery. Im not saying the taking of the name is an important issue in a marriage, it isn't. But it definitely feels like there more of a sensitivity towards some things that certain individuals believe are compromising of the womans independence.


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2015)

Also, in our parents generation, there was more of a sense of 'honour'. 
The urges of pre-marital sex was just as strong as it is today (throughout
history), but, if pregnancies occurred, the pressure to marry quickly
was the norm. 'Death till do us part' was ingrained.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I once had a TV for 18 years. Dials. UHF and VHF. Push button converter box. Pre-remote. It was still working when I gave it away about 15 years ago. How long did that LCD or Plasma TV that someone got 5 years or so ago last?


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> Your kid has ''tech time''? What about play time? You know, tossing a ball around or riding a bike, things like taht.


Yup, my kids have "tech time" and I suspect I'm not the only parent with young kids who takes it away as a punishment. Times have changed, I'm afraid...quite fitting for the topic of this thread, actually.

It's a "treat" for them to use the iPad, Chromebook or Wii (although playing Rock Band with them is actually quite fun!) and they need to ask to use them so it's not a free for all nor is it something they use everyday. But the way things are going with school ("bring your own device" to school isn't far off and it won't be long before I will have to buy my kids a computer to take to school as part of school supplies) tech is going to be a big part of their lives very soon whether I like it or not.

Now, when they're grounded from tech time that means they'll spend that time playing outside...win, win. 

I would much rather they were "playing" than be stuck in front of a screen so that's why tech time is the first thing to go.

My kids love the outdoors, don't get me wrong, especially when the neighbours are outside playing. In fact, I have to have my 6-year old take her boots and socks off before coming into the house everyday after school because she's been knee-deep (and sometimes elbow-deep) in the sand at the park "digging for clay". And my oldest daughter's hands are so calloused from the monkey bars that I think I'm going to start having her open my beer bottles from now on.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

laristotle said:


> Also, in our parents generation, there was more of a sense of 'honour'.
> The urges of pre-marital sex was just as strong as it is today (throughout
> history), but, if pregnancies occurred, the pressure to marry quickly
> was the norm. 'Death till do us part' was ingrained.


Ya, all this discussion has me wondering if the construct of marriage even has as much relevance/value today as it once did? Is marriage mostly myth?

Im not a farmer. I don't need someone to help raise 10 kids to help with the chores, and to kill and pluck the chicken for dinner etc. All I need is companionship (which truthfully I could get 90% of that from colleagues at work and at the pub afterwards- if I went to pubs, that is), and of course, sex, which there have also always been alternative options. Marriage was a necessity that was ingrained in us....but if what someones needs in reality are much less than that, and they go through with it due to other motives (familial, social pressures, media driven perceptions, etc), it isn't surprising that at some point some will say "why bother? I was happy enough before".

So, is marriage/permanent pair-bonding something everyone even needs? Maybe people just don't fit that mold anymore, and it isn't as simple as saying people are lazy and don't have character to make it work....maybe its not worth the energy that it requires. I wonder if its like arguing that too few people today know how to properly fix horseshoes on a horse.

we aren't as one-dimensional as we used to be...I can cook my own dinners, and my wife doesnt need me to defend her honour.
there are 2 things in my life that I think the importance of was over-emphasized by parents generation 1)marriage - some of my best and worst times were while married, and I could say the same for being single as well. 2)a university education (a skilled trade or college likely would have been just as lucrative or more, and ive never benefitted from any "respect" my parents thought it would automatically garner, in spite of having to carry its financial debt for many years.).
just playing devils advocate here.

- - - Updated - - -



johnnyshaka said:


> Yup, my kids have "tech time" and I suspect I'm not the only parent with young kids who takes it away as a punishment. Times have changed, I'm afraid...quite fitting for the topic of this thread, actually.
> 
> It's a "treat" for them to use the iPad, Chromebook or Wii (although playing Rock Band with them is actually quite fun!) and they need to ask to use them so it's not a free for all nor is it something they use everyday. But the way things are going with school ("bring your own device" to school isn't far off and it won't be long before I will have to buy my kids a computer to take to school as part of school supplies) tech is going to be a big part of their lives very soon whether I like it or not.
> 
> ...


yup, we have both "tech-time/tv-time" and outdoor play time. Its all about balance.
TBH, my kid gets restless, so prefers play time anyways. But sometimes the adults need a break or time to do the things we need to do..


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> I once had a TV for 18 years. Dials. UHF and VHF. Push button converter box. Pre-remote. It was still working when I gave it away about 15 years ago. How long did that LCD or Plasma TV that someone got 5 years or so ago last?


I've got a 42" panasonic plasma that is 7 years old. It broke down at just under 4 years but because I had a the future shop extended warranty it was repaired and has been going strong ever since. 
I also had a 50" Panasonic plasma that gave up after 3 years that I didn't have an extended warranty on. It would have been about $500 + tax to fix. I replaced it with a 60" panasonic plasma smart TV that was far better than the 50" and it cost me $1,200.
For the most part I don't bother with the extended warranties my 42" was less than 2 months from the warranty expiring. Got lucky on that one. I'll never get rid of it as I want to see how long it will last. I've never kept a TV for any length of time as my lifetime as a consumer the theory of "upgrade every few years" had already taken hold. But I remember as a kid my parents keeping TV's for 10 to 15 years before getting a new one.


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2015)

We have a 2001 Sony 43" rear projection that I got from a 'free to good home' ad. That was 5 years ago 
after our 32" Sony Trinitron finally died after 22 years. The owner said it needed repair because it was cloudy.
Got it home, took off the back and cleaned the inch of dust off the lenses and mirror. Clear as brand new.
As kids, my dad had a remote for the tv .. us. 'Don't turn it so fast!'.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Tvs are so much cheaper today and more enjoyable to watch, so its a trade off im willing to make. I just hope theyre more recyclable as well however.
when I first met my wife around 2004, she had just bought a 36" CRT tv for about $600....today for that money, we can get a 50" that uses less energy, is a fraction of the size and weight and has vastly better picture quality.
Ive actually never had a flat screen fail on me yet, although im sure they do. Although I have had some crts fail, after varying durations.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Krelf said:


> Commitment _is_ an important factor. My wife and I were best friends when we got married which is great start, but the first few years were difficult and our differences became very evident. Family interference put us on the rocks, but we held on and we now have a great marriage - 38 years and counting. _*I think today most couples having similar challenges would pack it in, which is really unfortunate. Good marriages need a lot of work especially in the early years*_, and many couples are just throwing up their hands and giving up.


Movies and TV have had an impact here as well. Back in the fifties TV supported marriages but know many shows portray them as throw away. 

The two world wars also had a marked change in the moral compass of individuals where infidelity became widespread as husbands and wives were away from each other for many years.


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> The two world wars also had a marked change in the moral compass of individuals where infidelity
> became widespread as husbands and wives were away from each other for many years.


bring back the chastity belt? lol.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> Movies and TV have had an impact here as well. Back in the fifties TV supported marriages but know many shows portray them as throw away.
> 
> The two world wars also had a marked change in the moral compass of individuals where infidelity became widespread as husbands and wives were away from each other for many years.


I actually blame those idealistic shows for a lot of divorces actually. They created a false , unrealistic vision of family life that im sure people sought after and were disillusioned that they could not find. there were never any real world issues to cope with, just beautiful, obedient, fun loving wives and their harmless misadventures, and calm, rational successful wise fathers who wanted nothing more than dinner on the table by 6 and golf on Saturdays, because it was always sunny in Pleasantville.
Theres a reason that shows like All in the Family came along to spare us the saccharin sweet pablum we were tired of being fed. We got sick of being lied to.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I cannot remember where this comes from (news, marketplace, documentary maybe), but I recall hearing that today's consumer electronics (cell phones in particular) have a designed life expectancy of 18 months. After that, it is out of date and needs (according to the manufacturers) replacing with something newer with additional features.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> Movies and TV have had an impact here as well. Back in the fifties TV supported marriages but know many shows portray them as throw away.
> 
> The two world wars also had a marked change in the moral compass of individuals where infidelity became widespread as husbands and wives were away from each other for many years.


Many writers will tell you that there are few situations as ripe for comedic writing as an inept single father. Over the years, I watched "Bachelor Father", "The Courtship of Eddie's Father", and successfully missed "Full House". The single-inept-dad motif has been around for a while, though; the single mom motif, much less so. Although I recall the Diahann Carroll show "Julia", and there was also "One Day at a Time". The focus of such shows was principally the challenges such women faced AS single moms, and did not spotlight their ineptitude.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Many writers will tell you that there are few situations as ripe for comedic writing as an inept single father. Over the years, I watched "Bachelor Father", "The Courtship of Eddie's Father", and successfully missed "Full House". The single-inept-dad motif has been around for a while, though; the single mom motif, much less so. Although I recall the Diahann Carroll show "Julia", and there was also "One Day at a Time". The focus of such shows was principally the challenges such women faced AS single moms, and did not spotlight their ineptitude.


ya the only ones that come to mind are "married with children" and "Mom".
but generally, as in tv commercials, its safer to poke fun at a clumsy oaf dad, than a struggling mom, maybe it just seems more tragic, or men are better at laughing at themselves.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Diablo said:


> I actually blame those idealistic shows for a lot of divorces actually. They created a false , unrealistic vision of family life that im sure people sought after and were disillusioned that they could not find. there were never any real world issues to cope with, just beautiful, obedient, fun loving wives and their harmless misadventures, and calm, rational successful wise fathers who wanted nothing more than dinner on the table by 6 and golf on Saturdays, because it was always sunny in Pleasantville.
> Theres a reason that shows like All in the Family came along to spare us the saccharin sweet pablum we were tired of being fed. We got sick of being lied to.


Anyone who takes TV that serious is gonna have problems to contend with that no show can fix. TV is a media source and they all lie to us.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

5 things I can think of off the top of my head. (some have already been mentioned)

1) People's overall sense of entitlement.
People these days seem to think they deserve everything despite doing nothing to earn it. That mentality doesn't make any sense to me. I was raised to believe the complete opposite. You deserve nothing in life. If you want something, work your ass off to earn it.

2) Lack of commitment.
Explanation not really needed here. Too many people set goals and quit before they ever even get started because they don't have the discipline and perseverance to do what it takes to reach their goal. This could apply to relationships, careers, and even hobbies.

3) The rise of perpetually (in some cases professionally) offended people.
Humanity needs the freedom to criticize all ideas (not just bad ones). That is how we progress as a species and improve our understanding of any given topic. For some reason, there are people out there who believe that if an idea is criticized, the critic must be therefore attacking the people promoting the idea. If you criticize a nation's politics/religion, you're a racist. People who criticize extreme feminism, you're a sexist. And so on... The average person seems to have never had any formal training on how to form coherent arguments, avoid logical fallacies, and have a disagreement that doesn't result in shouting, name-calling, and emotionally-fueled discussion. Maybe it's just me, but I think these topics should be mandatory in our education system. It would save a lot of people a lot of headaches.

4) Quality of business.
It seems businesses care more about making a sale than about earning a customer's trust. Rock bottom prices, clueless staff, and the almighty dollar has taken over. In my opinion, it is easy to get people's money but it is hard to earn their trust. As a customer, my trust in your business is far more valuable than my money in any one particular sale. Earn my trust and you not only have my money, you also have free advertising through my referrals to everyone I know who might be interested in your product or service.

5) Poor use of language.
I don't mind a little shorthand but there are limits. I can't tell you how many resumes and cover letters I've seen over the years that were riddled with spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and poor formatting. Some of them even had text-shorthand in them. These are adults seeking full-time work in positions that require good written communication skills. Really? Numerous and obvious errors in your resume and cover letter? I can only assume that these people also fall under categories one through three.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

There's no money in making things that last.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> I've got a 42" panasonic plasma that is 7 years old. It broke down at just under 4 years but because I had a the future shop extended warranty it was repaired and has been going strong ever since.
> I also had a 50" Panasonic plasma that gave up after 3 years that I didn't have an extended warranty on. It would have been about $500 + tax to fix. I replaced it with a 60" panasonic plasma smart TV that was far better than the 50" and it cost me $1,200.
> For the most part I don't bother with the extended warranties my 42" was less than 2 months from the warranty expiring. Got lucky on that one. I'll never get rid of it as I want to see how long it will last. I've never kept a TV for any length of time as my lifetime as a consumer the theory of "upgrade every few years" had already taken hold. But I remember as a kid my parents keeping TV's for 10 to 15 years before getting a new one.


The microwave we use is the wife's. A big old 35 year old Panasonic.....it will cook a large turkey. My younger brother has the folks Silvertone t.v.. I remember watching Annette on it in 1954. It still works but only the black and white show up.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

"Now, when they're grounded from tech time that means they'll spend that time playing outside...win, win. "
So you "punish" them by taking away something and then letting them do something else they probably like just as much if not more. Here, if the girls get punished they lose all privileges for while. As far as having "tech" things, all my grand kids have tablets that I have supplied. The girls have a shared cell phone that can only be used to make phone calls and text. They can take their tablets to school if they want.....they usually don't.

- - - Updated - - -



laristotle said:


> bring back the chastity belt? lol.


And a cry was heard through the nation, "*IT'S THE WRONG KEY!!!!*


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Krelf said:


> The world has made some very important strides lately, most notably medical advances, space exploration, green technology, computer science and more reliable vehicles. However some things were better in earlier times.
> 
> Look at how many hockey sticks are breaking.
> 
> ...


To us some things were better in earlier times....to the younguns we're fossils and everything is better now a days.


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## Guest (May 1, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> And a cry was heard through the nation, "*IT'S THE WRONG KEY!!!!*


quick! call the locksmith!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


> quick! call the locksmith!


Just don't call the one with the torch.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

jbealsmusic said:


> 3) The rise of perpetually (in some cases professionally) offended people.
> Humanity needs the freedom to criticize all ideas (not just bad ones). That is how we progress as a species and improve our understanding of any given topic. For some reason, there are people out there who believe that if an idea is criticized, the critic must be therefore attacking the people promoting the idea. If you criticize a nation's politics/religion, you're a racist. People who criticize extreme feminism, you're a sexist. And so on... The average person seems to have never had any formal training on how to form coherent arguments, avoid logical fallacies, and have a disagreement that doesn't result in shouting, name-calling, and emotionally-fueled discussion. Maybe it's just me, but I think these topics should be mandatory in our education system. It would save a lot of people a lot of headaches.
> 
> 5) Poor use of language.
> I don't mind a little shorthand but there are limits. I can't tell you how many resumes and cover letters I've seen over the years that were riddled with spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and poor formatting. Some of them even had text-shorthand in them. These are adults seeking full-time work in positions that require good written communication skills. Really? Numerous and obvious errors in your resume and cover letter? I can only assume that these people also fall under categories one through three.


I have fun with these two sometimes.

I used to work with a guy who arrogantly proclaimed: "I was in at 6:30 this morning." I would reply with: "I didn't see you here at 6:30." and he would get furious, claiming I was denigrating him, calling him a liar, etc. Of course, I wasn't in at 6:30 (I'm crazy, not stupid) so, of course, I didn't see him there. 

For me, it is the imprecision of language. It is 'cool' now to talk like you have 0 education. Axe 'em, they'll tell ya.


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## J-75 (Jul 29, 2010)

Phone jacks, potentiometers, amp construction, shoes, Country music, popular music...


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Anti-social behavior. A person's phone is like an extension of their body. Everyone is doing something on their damned phone including me!

I am going to try and give up my phone for 3 days. It will be very hard not to stay connected with the world! Hey, here's and idea! They can use the "real" phone and call me at home if they need me!


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Lola said:


> Anti-social behavior. A person's phone is like an extension of their body. Everyone is doing something on their damned phone including me!


Yes yes yes!



> I am going to try and give up my phone for 3 days. It will be very hard not to stay connected with the world! Hey, here's and idea! They can use the "real" phone and call me at home if they need me!


I gave up Facebook last October (still don't have it) and have felt disconnected from the world ever since. Social media is social life for a lot of people these days. If you can't be e-invited through Facebook, you just don't get invited anymore. And when I do get to meet people they always talk about, "Did you see so and so's post on Facebook/Twitter the other day?"


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

dcole said:


> I agree with you mhammer about language. People laugh at me when I use a big word. What bothers me with language is the written word in regards to forum posts and text messages. *People don't spell correct,* use capitalization or punctuation. .....


People don't spell correctly. Adverb describing a verb. Sorry I couldn't help myself.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

jbealsmusic said:


> 5 things I can think of off the top of my head. (some have already been mentioned)
> 
> 1) People's overall sense of entitlement.
> People these days seem to think they deserve everything despite doing nothing to earn it. That mentality doesn't make any sense to me. I was raised to believe the complete opposite. You deserve nothing in life. If you want something, work your ass off to earn it.
> ....


Why the entitlement. 

The most syndicated child psychologist in north America. John rosemond. 

https://soundcloud.com/hearts-and-m...com/hearts-and-minds/rosemond-seminar-track-1


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## Gearhead88 (Nov 7, 2013)

Drivers have gotten worse , it's bad , real bad in larger cities. The roads are full of douchetards.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Lola said:


> Anti-social behavior. A person's phone is like an extension of their body. Everyone is doing something on their damned phone including me!
> 
> I am going to try and give up my phone for 3 days. It will be very hard not to stay connected with the world! Hey, here's and idea! They can use the "real" phone and call me at home if they need me!


Because of the grand daughters my cell phone usage....calls, texts etc....is up to maybe 5 minutes a month. Because of them the house phone usage is now probably twice that....except for right now because of the election here and idiots wanting to know who we're going to vote for and if we'll vote for their candidate. Anti-social behavior? Isn't that loading up with beer and beans and then going to a crowded place and cutting a good one? Staying connected with the world? Just look out your window.....yup, the world is still there including the good looking girl who just jogged by in short shorts and a tank top. Might not do anything for you but reminds me I should exercise. I wonder if she'd like a running partner?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jbealsmusic said:


> Yes yes yes!
> 
> I gave up Facebook last October (still don't have it) and have felt disconnected from the world ever since. Social media is social life for a lot of people these days. If you can't be e-invited through Facebook, you just don't get invited anymore. And when I do get to meet people they always talk about, "Did you see so and so's post on Facebook/Twitter the other day?"


Most people I know will drop by the house. If no one is home they'll leave a note. Some might e-mail, some don't have computers. I have facebook, 26 'friends' 1 is not family....I probably contact about half of them on their birthdays and that's it. This is my big, computerized social site.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Gearhead88 said:


> Drivers have gotten worse , it's bad , real bad in larger cities. The roads are full of douchetards.


I have seen this word and words like it before.....what the hell is a "douchetard"? Is that a word? Is it this generations version of DFC (Dumb F**king C***). Is it related to a company that started in Quebec as a convenience store? Is it the fact that people just jam two words together and figure it means something?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm guessing that, yes, it is related to the name of the Quebec chain of convenience stores called "Couche Tard" (which essentially implies sleeping in). And, like many elsewhere in Canada, who can't plan their day well enough to have a sit-down breakfast at home and end up grabbing their breakfast at a Timmy's drive-in window, a "douchetard" is someone with a take-out coffee in the car cup-holder, and poor planning skills.

But I'm just guessing. I doubt that it is a slag at the store chain itself, since people seem to like them enough to make them successful.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Lola said:


> Anti-social behavior. A person's phone is like an extension of their body. Everyone is doing something on their damned phone including me!
> 
> I am going to try and give up my phone for 3 days. It will be very hard not to stay connected with the world! Hey, here's and idea! They can use the "real" phone and call me at home if they need me!


A "real" phone has a curly cord, and weighs at least a pound.

We tend to forget what the impact of technology is on sociability. I suppose this is most likely because social benefit has seemed to play less and less of a role in product design. Or at least the notion of what social benefit IS has become more and more focussed and narrow.

I've complained about them before but I'll mention the elevators at my previous job as an illustration. Some group of geniuses at SNC-Lavalin thought they were coming up with something brilliant to improve security with these things.

You scan your security pass on the control panel in the hallway outside the elevators. When it gives you the go-ahead, you enter which floor you wish to go to, and wait for the display to show you which elevator you will take. The display takes a while but only stays up briefly. Take your eyes off it during the critical moments, and you miss the needed info. The elevators themselves arrive silently. No bell, no flashing light. Inside the elevator is a door-open, a door-close, and an alarm button. Four times out of 5 you ride the elevator alone. If you are having a work-related conversation with someone who happens to be going to another floor, the elevator software generally directs you to take different elevators, breaking up the conversation. The custom of riding with colleagues, and stopping at multiple floors is gone. The courtesy of holding the door open for people you hear coming...gone, because you don't know what floor they are going to. While waiting for the elevator to arrive, you stop talking, because you might miss the door opening and closing.

In short, the same way that mobile devices impair sociability by making so many face downward, instead of forward at other people, these elevators impair sociability by obliging the user to think only of themselves and their own destination, at the forfeiture of interaction with others in the organization. There were some people I had worked with for years, and I had no idea whether they had retired, died, or gotten a different job, because I had not run into them on the elevator in over 6 months. Essentially, whoever designed these things had a narrow vision of "efficiency" in mind, with little regard for how organizations function and _need_ to function. Similarly, when "the latest gadget" is designed, my sense is that it pursues a fairly narrow vision of what "innovation" is, with little regard for the broader social impact. And I suppose that's because individuals, and not societies, buy trinkets. Although it is societies that suffer the repercussions.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> I have seen this word and words like it before.....what the hell is a "douchetard"? Is it related to a company that started in Quebec as a convenience store?


If George Carlin spoke Quebecois......bien joué jeune homme, très bien joué.

- - - Updated - - -



mhammer said:


> I'm guessing that, yes, it is related to the name of the Quebec chain of convenience stores called "Couche Tard" (which essentially implies sleeping in). And, like many elsewhere in Canada, who can't plan their day well enough to have a sit-down breakfast at home and end up grabbing their breakfast at a Timmy's drive-in window, a "douchetard" is someone with a take-out coffee in the car cup-holder, and poor planning skills.
> 
> But I'm just guessing. I doubt that it is a slag at the store chain itself, since people seem to like them enough to make them successful.


It's a combination of "douchebag" and "retard" (the English meaning).


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

"A "real" phone has a curly cord, and weighs at least a pound."
Curly cords are evil and a pain in the butt. The phone downstairs is a Harley Heritage Softail from the 90's. The other corded phone is a M&M's Mega Phone....Yellow. Straight cords on them. 
"Essentially, whoever designed these things had a narrow vision of "efficiency" in mind, with little regard for how organizations function and need to function" To me all an elevator is is a way to get from point A to point B. I don't think that it should be an extension of your office. In a cramped space like that I don't want to hear about how bad a day you're having or how someone at your company screwed up again. Especially if I don't work with you.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

mhammer said:


> We tend to forget what the impact of technology is on sociability. I suppose this is most likely because social benefit has seemed to play less and less of a role in product design. Or at least the notion of what social benefit IS has become more and more focussed and narrow.
> 
> I've complained about them before but I'll mention the elevators at my previous job as an illustration. Some group of geniuses at SNC-Lavalin thought they were coming up with something brilliant to improve security with these things.
> 
> ...


Wow, just wow!

That's just bad design, no excuses on technology. You can design a hammer (no pun intended  to hurt the user(s), and you can design an elevator. The system you describe was designed by utter morons.

I personally rail against such mental laziness and idiocy in design every day, including at my company. It's a fundamental responsibility of a good engineer to do so. And we are designing tech-based systems to specifically connect people that need to be connected.

Don't stand for bad design, technology is just one of a set of excuses allowing it.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Roryfan said:


> If George Carlin spoke Quebecois......bien joué jeune homme, très bien joué.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> It's a combination of "douchebag" and "retard" (the English meaning).


"young" man....I like that tho my French is Parisian and not Quebecois.
'douchebag' and 'retard'.....oh, you're slowing the flow of water in a hygiene device. Growing up the girls sometimes used them as birth control devices. I prefer DFC. I think George Carlin would too.


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## Guest (May 2, 2015)

LexxM3 said:


> The system you describe was designed by utter morons.


Who were probably directed by the company's management. ie;
'no dawdling around, no chatting! go directly to your station and work!'.

speaking of elevators,

A hillbilly family took a vacation to New York City. They went to a shopping mall and 
were amazed by everything they saw, especially the elevator at one end of a corridor. 
The boy asked, "What's that, Pa?" The father responded, "Son, I have never seen anything 
like this in my life. I don't know what it is!" While the boy and his father were watching, an 
old lady walked up to the walls and pressed a button. The walls opened and the lady walked 
between them into a small room. The walls closed and the boy and his father watched small 
circles of lights above the walls light up. They continued to watch the circles light up in the 
reverse direction. The walls opened again, and a voluptuous young woman stepped out.

The father turned to his son and said, "Boy, go fetch your ma!"


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> "A "real" phone has a curly cord, and weighs at least a pound."
> Curly cords are evil and a pain in the butt. The phone downstairs is a Harley Heritage Softail from the 90's. The other corded phone is a M&M's Mega Phone....Yellow. Straight cords on them.


Then I'll modify my statement to say that a real phone has a handset connected by a cord. I hold no special affection for curly cords i particular.


> "Essentially, whoever designed these things had a narrow vision of "efficiency" in mind, with little regard for how organizations function and need to function" To me all an elevator is is a way to get from point A to point B. I don't think that it should be an extension of your office. In a cramped space like that I don't want to hear about how bad a day you're having or how someone at your company screwed up again. Especially if I don't work with you.


I'm not talking about gossip. I'm talking about networking on work-related matters. Innovative organizations connect their people. These elevators keep them apart. I should point out that the building went without any food court or common area for some 15 months, so the elevator was an essential means for serendipitous meetings and networking. I've never heard one person have anything good to say about them.


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## RedVally (Feb 16, 2015)

I have a hard time believing there are more assholes today than 40 years ago for example. From my experience assholes are assholes, they don't carry a national flag nor do they share the same skin colour, they are everywhere and I don't believe more are evolving. If anything, people have just become more sensitive to them in our politically correct society.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Who were probably directed by the company's management. ie;
> 'no dawdling around, no chatting! go directly to your station and work!'.


Before that someone in management probably said we need to get these people to their desks faster, the stairs are too damned slow. So someone designed a box that moved vertically between floors....and then made it so that people who weren't supposed to be there couldn't be there without a security pass. And so Jack from accounting couldn't slip up to the steno pool for a little swim.....without taking the stairs.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Then I'll modify my statement to say that a real phone has a handset connected by a cord. I hold no special affection for curly cords i particular.
> 
> I'm not talking about gossip. I'm talking about networking on work-related matters. Innovative organizations connect their people. These elevators keep them apart. I should point out that the building went without any food court or common area for some 15 months, so the elevator was an essential means for serendipitous meetings and networking. I've never heard one person have anything good to say about them.


Could you not just take the elevator from the floor where your desk was to the floor where the other persons desk was. That's connecting people....after all, all the elevator is designed for is being a mode of transportation. And you don't have to bank on serendipitously meeting someone by chance. If the meeting is essential it would seem to me that one person goes to where the other person will be and not where they might be.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Customer service has really gone down hill. If you bought a defective product years ago, you just needed to phone the manufacturer. A receptionist, within your own country, would answer the phone and immediately transfer you to a person who would eagerly help you. They wanted your repeat business. 

You didn't have to push a bunch of numbers; you didn't get placed on hold for an hour listening to scratchy music only to get cut off. There were no continual messages chiming in about how important your call is and the approximate waiting time. And you never got a response from someone in an Asian country who is primarily hired to get rid of you because his English is so bad. 

Customers used to be viewed as a valuable commodity. Today the sellers are no longer interested in you once you've bought their product. They figure you'll come back again despite how poorly they've treated you. And with today's mindset, they're probably right!


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

My sleeping habits. For example, today is my day off and I have been up since 6:30 am. I didn't got to be until almost 4. 

It seems to not matter what time I go to be I am getting up A WAY too early. Need to learn how to fall back to sleep.

I think bottom line is my quality of sleep is suffering.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Lola said:


> My sleeping habits. ...It seems to not matter what time I go to be I am getting up A WAY too early. Need to learn how to fall back to sleep.
> 
> I think bottom line is my quality of sleep is suffering.


You and me both. I know my wife's "breathing" has gooten louder, but I think my eyelids have gotten thinner. The tiniest bit of daylight and I can't get back to sleep. I'm awful glad we don't live in Edmonton anymore or else I'd only be getting 5hrs a night these days.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

mhammer said:


> You and me both. I know my wife's "breathing" has gooten louder, but I think my eyelids have gotten thinner. The tiniest bit of daylight and I can't get back to sleep. I'm awful glad we don't live in Edmonton anymore or else I'd only be getting 5hrs a night these days.


I feel your pain (both of you).

Sleep is a real challenge for me.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Lola said:


> My sleeping habits. For example, today is my day off and I have been up since 6:30 am. I didn't got to be until almost 4.
> 
> It seems to not matter what time I go to be I am getting up A WAY too early. Need to learn how to fall back to sleep.
> 
> I think bottom line is my quality of sleep is suffering.


Ive never had an easy time falling asleep. But it used to be, I could make up for it by sleeping in when I got the chance. That all changed when we had a kid. That first couple years ruined me. Hard as I try I cant sleep in past 8, even on weekends, no matter how late ive been up, or how quiet the house is.
I was surprised how much having a kid took a toll on me physically, I was constantly sick when she started daycare and was bringing home every bug known to man. Gained as much weight as my wife did, and I somehow developed the same eczema my daughter has even though I never had it before. Its bloody weird.

One thing I think has gotten worse, is serviceability of products.
I used to own a sports car that gained a reputation for a particular part of a transmission failing...when some gearheads took it apart, they found it resulted from a particular part that cost about $30. failing. However, the dealerships categorized the transmissions as "non-serviceable", so any issue such as this one, required an entire exchange of the transmission usually to the tune of a few thousand dollars. Other examples might be all the circuit boards used in everything from amps to furnaces.

This leads me to another pet peeve of mine...lack of consumer protection. The governments we elect do next to nothing to protect consumers interests. Companies and lobby groups for industries ie telecom always get favourable treatment and a really long, flimsy leash. I don't know if this has gotten worse, but it sure aint getting better.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I know that my husband sometimes will need an afternoon nap for an hour or two. I will never nap. I am too fidgety and feel guilty for lying there in the middle of them day especially when I have a lot to do. 

Because of work I try to cram chores together on my day off.

I have some help and I do try to delegate tasks but my boys have figured out that if they do a poor enough job that I will get pissed and tell them to leave it for me. My oldest one is particularly guilty of this manipulative behavior. He says that he tries! My foot!


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Lola said:


> I know that my husband sometimes will need an afternoon nap for an hour or two. I will never nap. I am too fidgety and feel guilty for lying there in the middle of them day especially when I have a lot to do.


I hit a wall between 3 and 6, a nap is great when I can get one..unfortunately its when I also pickup my daughter...so when shes all geared up to play at home with dad, im crashing  I hope she doesn't look back at me as a lazy bum when she gets older.


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## Guest (May 6, 2015)

Lola said:


> I have some help and I do try to delegate tasks but my boys have figured out that if they do a poor enough job that I will get pissed
> and tell them to leave it for me. My oldest one is particularly guilty of this *manipulative behavior*. He says that he tries! My foot!


That's because you let them get away with it. I know. I did the same, as a child.
Try telling them to 'do it again until you get it right! you're not getting out of this'.
Eventually, they'll figure out to do it right the first time. Worked on me.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Disposable gadgets. Most, but not all, people who get new cell phone every 2 or 3 years. And that's only to start.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

ng my


laristotle said:


> That's because you let them get away with it. I know. I did the same, as a child.
> Try telling them to 'do it again until you get it right! you're not getting out of this'.
> Eventually, they'll figure out to do it right the first time. Worked on me.


There grown men! If they do an inappropriate job, I will say, "you did a half assed attempt". He just storms out of the room! My oldest ones excuse is "I am doing my bit to strength our collective immune systems"! He has a point to a certain degree!


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Leaf blowers and noise pollution. The inventor should be shot and pissed on. They just blow stuff around onto other peoples property and are damn noisy doing it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> Could you not just take the elevator from the floor where your desk was to the floor where the other persons desk was. That's connecting people....after all, all the elevator is designed for is being a mode of transportation. And you don't have to bank on serendipitously meeting someone by chance. If the meeting is essential it would seem to me that one person goes to where the other person will be and not where they might be.


Most organizations don't do enough to network people, despite silos being a problem and management talking a good game. I went for 8 months without being invited to a policy researchers "network", despite being one of the most skilled and well-rounded researchers in the organization, largely because I was in unit X and the organizers only thought to invite folks from unit Y. Under those circumstances, it is very much the impromptu conversations between people while waiting for the elevator in the main lobby, that break down the silos and foster a more integrative organization.

So, at one level, you're absolutely right that there is nothing stopping me from taking an elevator, or simply walking up or down the stairs. And occasionally I would. But those bloody elevators had the generalized effect of making each floor a micro-universe that did not interact with any other UNLESS there was a reason to schedule a formal meeting. It wasn't just me, either. I heard the same thing from plenty of folks. 

You'd come in at 8, swipe your ID card, get the OK signal, enter your floor, and stare at the display until it told you what elevator you had to take. The tradition of everybody getting on the same elevator, pressing their floor on the elevator, and chatting as it let folks off, became a thing of the past. It took me a few months at my current job in another building to reacquire the reflex of pressing the door-open button when I heard someone's footsteps rushing towards the elevator. The small-talk you make when such courtesies are acknowledged between fellow employees is a big part of the glue that holds organizations together; the same way that chatting between neighbours as you both shovel, or bring the garbage out to the curb in the morning is part of the glue that holds communities together.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Lola said:


> ng my There grown men! If they do an inappropriate job, I will say, "you did a half assed attempt". He just storms out of the room! My oldest ones excuse is "I am doing my bit to strength our collective immune systems"! He has a point to a certain degree!


If they are old enough to vote and drink then they are old enough to be having their own places. And it is not their mothers place to clean up after them. ''There's the door. Bye, bye.''.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Most organizations don't do enough to network people, despite silos being a problem and management talking a good game. I went for 8 months without being invited to a policy researchers "network", despite being one of the most skilled and well-rounded researchers in the organization, largely because I was in unit X and the organizers only thought to invite folks from unit Y. Under those circumstances, it is very much the impromptu conversations between people while waiting for the elevator in the main lobby, that break down the silos and foster a more integrative organization.
> 
> So, at one level, you're absolutely right that there is nothing stopping me from taking an elevator, or simply walking up or down the stairs. And occasionally I would. But those bloody elevators had the generalized effect of making each floor a micro-universe that did not interact with any other UNLESS there was a reason to schedule a formal meeting. It wasn't just me, either. I heard the same thing from plenty of folks.
> 
> You'd come in at 8, swipe your ID card, get the OK signal, enter your floor, and stare at the display until it told you what elevator you had to take. The tradition of everybody getting on the same elevator, pressing their floor on the elevator, and chatting as it let folks off, became a thing of the past. It took me a few months at my current job in another building to reacquire the reflex of pressing the door-open button when I heard someone's footsteps rushing towards the elevator. The small-talk you make when such courtesies are acknowledged between fellow employees is a big part of the glue that holds organizations together; the same way that chatting between neighbours as you both shovel, or bring the garbage out to the curb in the morning is part of the glue that holds communities together.


Never had a job that compartmentalized and organized. Doubt if I could work for a place like that. But then all a job is for me, especially now, is a paycheck. As far as neighbors go, the ones on one side haven't been there too long. About the only thing I know about them is they have a little kid, she looks good in a tight t-shirt and there's someone who rents the basement of the house. And they have a boxer. The ones on the other side are about the same. Never seen either of them put garbage to the curb or shovel anything. I doubt if we've exchanged more that 3 hrs conversation since we moved in.


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## Guest (May 7, 2015)

Ha! They're probably afraid of the 'guitar playing, biker next door'.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

it seems to me that lying has become an acceptable form of communication.
Politicians lie
news Medea lie
entertainers lie
marketers lie
cops/military lie
social media is full of bullshit lies.

seems like a very difficult world we live in when its impossible to tell whats truth and what are lies.
I think whats worse is that we in general accept the lies as common practice.

G.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> If they are old enough to vote and drink then they are old enough to be having their own places. And it is not their mothers place to clean up after them. ''There's the door. Bye, bye.''.


I don't want them to leave! They clean up after themselves. It with the vacuuming and unloading the dishwasher. Just mundane household chores. They clean their own rooms, cook for themselves. The only thing I do for them is their laundry. I don't mind. It's my prerogative to spoil my boys how I see fit. If I wanna do their laundry then so be it. My middle guy is still in school, the body builder. He's going through to be a firefighter and my youngest is going to university, UOIT! I wouldn't dream of letting them leave while still in school. They have enough stress to deal with besides worrying about accomodations. They can't afford it and I am not paying for it!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Ha! They're probably afraid of the 'guitar playing, biker next door'.


The biker next door? Nah....We just don't see each other much. He's anti-social.
The kid next door has a Harley....I'd say he's in his late 20's. When they moved in they partied late and loud so I went out the next day to suggest they try to keep it down the next time. So far it's worked tho we don't talk....I do say Hi to his lady, kid and dog when I see them. Al and his wife on the other side usually work different shifts than we do. There's a couple of young ladies....mid 20's....next to them who seem to like Harleys but I think my wife scares them. 4 houses down are two Harleys, around the corner are three more. We say Hi when we see each other but don't set up "play dates" to go riding together. Going the other way there's at least 5 or 6 bikes. With in a 4 block radius any way there's probably 35 or so bikes. Of all those bike riding people there are 6 old school bikers. 8 if you include the wife and me. Over the years have things gotten worse for a biker....nope, they've stayed the about same.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Lola said:


> I don't want them to leave! They clean up after themselves. It with the vacuuming and unloading the dishwasher. Just mundane household chores. They clean their own rooms, cook for themselves. The only thing I do for them is their laundry. I don't mind. It's my prerogative to spoil my boys how I see fit. If I wanna do their laundry then so be it. My middle guy is still in school, the body builder. He's going through to be a firefighter and my youngest is going to university, UOIT! I wouldn't dream of letting them leave while still in school. They have enough stress to deal with besides worrying about accomodations. They can't afford it and I am not paying for it!


Yes Mom. Things have changed in that respect in the last years. We couldn't wait to leave home and be on our own. My son, 34, graduated, moved in with me for a short while then got a job in Banff. If he'd wanted to go to university he would have had to go at least 350 miles from where we live. The wife's grandson rents part of our basement and rents my Ford. On occasion he raids our fridge but other than that he's on his own, TANSTAAFL.... Heinlein.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

For the most part, things are probably much better now than they were 100 years ago.

Honestly, our lives are longer and easier now than in our parents and grand parents days.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> For the most part, things are probably much better now than they were 100 years ago.
> 
> Honestly, our lives are longer and easier now than in our parents and grand parents days.


From what I can remember from back 60 odd years I'd say they're probably about the same.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

Might have been said before but my metabolism has gotten worse! I can't get away with eating the tasty treats like I used to!


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I got one...assembly instructions....theyre so cheap on paper, trying to get the whole thing in 2-3 diagrams at most on one piece of paper, and poorly translated. not just the Chinese stuff, ive bought some things made in la belle province with instructions as vague and poorly translated from French as any of the offshore stuff. And the manufacturer websites just have links to pdf's of the same crappy instructions.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> Yes Mom. Things have changed in that respect in the last years. We couldn't wait to leave home and be on our own. .


I left home at 16! I just couldn't take my father anymore. I picked up and never looked back. We sort of made amends at my wedding! Like they say, you can't choose your family!


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

One thing that's definitely gotten worse... News, or what is passed off as news anyway. The 24hr news cycle that was pioneered by CNN and is now everywhere is just pure brain poison! I remember when that started about 25 years ago and it seemed pretty cool at the time. I had no idea how bad it could/would get. There really isn't that much "news" to be consumed so shit gets made up or embellished to the point of absurdity. It's begotten such abominations as Fox "News" and the like. While the statement "if it bleeds, it leads" always seemed to be there, it's getting tiresome to see stories of the latest tragedy that befell someone and I'll I can do about it is feel bad. That's not news. I need to know what can actually affect me and what I can affect. At least with the old days of the half or one hour "6 O'Clock News" they had to edit (remember that concept!) to ensure they used their broadcast time wisely. 

It's getting even worse when I read my Yahoo home page in the morning to find I have to sift through a shit load of "sponsored" stories (F'in commercials disguised as news stories) or click bait headlines of "this will change everything" "You won't believe what happens next".... bullshit!
Then there's the Lardassians and their brood! Who gives a flying fuck what they're doing... In a "news" report no less!! I have a standing rule that if any of those idiots are mentioned while I'm watching TV the channel is changed or turned off.

Edit: Just after posting this a FB friend posted an article about an app that's designed to remove any mention of the Lardassians (I refuse to type their name correctly) from web pages or news feeds. Now THIS is something I can use! 
Here's the link to the app developer...
http://www.kardblock.com/


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Hamstrung said:


> One thing that's definitely gotten worse... News, or what is passed off as news anyway. The 24hr news cycle that was pioneered by CNN and is now everywhere is just pure brain poison! I remember when that started about 25 years ago and it seemed pretty cool at the time. I had no idea how bad it could/would get. There really isn't that much "news" to be consumed so shit gets made up or embellished to the point of absurdity. It's begotten such abominations as Fox "News" and the like. While the statement "if it bleeds, it leads" always seemed to be there, it's getting tiresome to see stories of the latest tragedy that befell someone and I'll I can do about it is feel bad. That's not news. I need to know what can actually affect me and what I can affect. At least with the old days of the half or one hour "6 O'Clock News" they had to edit (remember that concept!) to ensure they used their broadcast time wisely.
> 
> It's getting even worse when I read my Yahoo home page in the morning to find I have to sift through a shit load of "sponsored" stories (F'in commercials disguised as news stories) or click bait headlines of "this will change everything" "You won't believe what happens next".... bullshit!
> Then there's the Lardassians and their brood! Who gives a flying fuck what they're doing... In a "news" report no less!! I have a standing rule that if any of those idiots are mentioned while I'm watching TV the channel is changed or turned off.
> ...


The only news I actively listen to is the stuff pertaining to this city....which means 99% of it is on the radio. Which means I listen to about 15 minutes worth of news a day. Next to that is Global edmonton which is background noise during supper. If something warrants my attention I listen to it. I don't listen to too much. Today one of my co-workers came from her area to help in the back. First thing she did was go to the radio to change the station so she could listen to crap about the people you don't mention. I told her that if she touched the dial I'd break her fingers. Doug and the Slugs was playing.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> From what I can remember from back 60 odd years I'd say they're probably about the same.


Every generation lives a little longer as technology continues to eliminate physical chores and medical science matures.

I also think mankind is at least inclined toward enlightenment, but I may be wearing my rose coloured glasses there.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Milkman said:


> For the most part, things are probably much better now than they were 100 years ago.
> 
> Honestly, our lives are longer and easier now than in our parents and grand parents days.


In some ways they are better for us who live in the western world or in the developed world but would you agree that the stress level on people today is far and above what it was even 50 years ago? The article below makes an interesting point. It's not the first time it has been made but it seems to be coming to light more often.

[h=1]Millionaires just as stressed as the rest of us[/h]
[h=3]Survey of U.S. wealthy finds them worrying about unmotivated children and financial security[/h]
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/millionaires-just-as-stressed-as-the-rest-of-us-1.3065465


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Milkman said:


> For the most part, things are probably much better now than they were 100 years ago.
> 
> Honestly, our lives are longer and easier now than in our parents and grand parents days.


Lives aren't actually _that_ much longer. Many of the changes in life expectancy really address sources of childhood and perinatal mortality. If you made it through the first 10 years, and didn't work in a coal mine, you stood a pretty good chance of living a long life. Trouble was, too many didn't make it through the first couple of months, let alone the first decade. Look up Semmelweis to find out about one of the biggest inflection points in the history of human life expectancy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> In some ways they are better for us who live in the western world or in the developed world but would you agree that the stress level on people today is far and above what it was even 50 years ago? The article below makes an interesting point. It's not the first time it has been made but it seems to be coming to light more often.
> 
> *Millionaires just as stressed as the rest of us*
> 
> ...



I think stress has always been a fact of life. I think the stress of surviving a New Brunswick winter with ten kids and your only income derived from fishing was probably pretty damned stressful.

They had WWI and WWII.

We had regional conflicts but no world war.

They stressed about small pox. We worry about our browsers going down.

We'd like to think we have more stress than our predecessors but I'm not convinced that's true.


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

We are as happy as we choose to be. I choose to be an optimist. My glass is always half-full. I practice an attitude of gratitude daily. Life has never been better. This is the greatest time in history 
to be alive!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

rhh7 said:


> We are as happy as we choose to be. I choose to be an optimist. My glass is always half-full. I practice an attitude of gratitude daily. Life has never been better. This is the greatest time in history
> to be alive!


Welcome to the club. We have one life. I'm trying to have a positive one.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

rhh7 said:


> We are as happy as we choose to be. I choose to be an optimist. My glass is always half-full. I practice an attitude of gratitude daily. Life has never been better. This is the greatest time in history
> to be alive!


We don't have any choice, we're alive in this time frame. There's no alternative.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Hamstrung said:


> Might have been said before but my metabolism has gotten worse! I can't get away with eating the tasty treats like I used to!


I can still eat all the tasty treats I used to eat, with a little help from modern medicine, and as long as the wife doesn't see me I can still get away with it. She's been gone for a week so I guess I'd better get rid of the wrappers etc. before she gets home tomorrow.


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Welcome to the club. We have one life. I'm trying to have a positive one.


My old man tought me something in this line:

"Avoid hurting other people, enjoy your life and everything will be okay!"

Seemed to work for him and at 31 years old I can say it a good start!


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Your dad sounds like a good guy. Great advice. I follow that as well.



Ti-Ron said:


> My old man tought me something in this line:
> 
> "Avoid hurting other people, enjoy your life and everything will be okay!"
> 
> Seemed to work for him and at 31 years old I can say it a good start!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Ti-Ron said:


> My old man tought me something in this line:
> 
> "Avoid hurting other people, enjoy your life and everything will be okay!"
> 
> Seemed to work for him and at 31 years old I can say it a good start!


When my son got a job in Banff I went there with him for his interview. I told him that when he was in a bar with a young lady to not show all his money at the same time. When his interview was over I asked him when he started work....he said, "In an hr.". He took me to the east entrance to Banff and I had to hitch hike home.


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Stratin2traynor said:


> Your dad sounds like a good guy. Great advice. I follow that as well.


My dad is a real classic. Like a telecaster.
No frill, no shrill, always reliable.

Born in 1950, always have the same haircut, same look (jeans, checked shirt, worker boot, glasses), didn't have a lot of money but a heart bigger than every wallet possible. He teached me a lot of stuff over the year. Have to admit it took me at least 25 years to notice the wealth of it. I wanted stuff he gave me thinking, the stupid teen I was didn't get it...


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Frigging frames for my glasses. I got my first glasses in 1967 and the frames were hard black plastic that were literally indestructible. I lost them once and since I had my name on them, they were returned, but a lens was cracked. They had been driven over by a car, as the case had a tire mark over it. But the frames were fine!

Today these hyper expensive flimsy wire frames bend, break and drop lenses if you so much as breathe on them. Rub them a bit hard when cleaning and the lenses fall out. Leave them in your car on a cold day, the metal contracts and again the lenses fall out. Just useless overpriced crap that we're paying for!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Krelf said:


> Frigging frames for my glasses. I got my first glasses in 1967 and the frames were hard black plastic that were literally indestructible. I lost them once and since I had my name on them, they were returned, but a lens was cracked. They had been driven over by a car, as the case had a tire mark over it. But the frames were fine!
> 
> Today these hyper expensive flimsy wire frames bend, break and drop lenses if you so much as breathe on them. Rub them a bit hard when cleaning and the lenses fall out. Leave them in your car on a cold day, the metal contracts and again the lenses fall out. Just useless overpriced crap that we're paying for!


Try Zenni.com. You can buy $600.00 glasses for around $100.00 or less.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

My waistline.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Milkman said:


> I think stress has always been a fact of life. _*I think the stress of surviving a New Brunswick winter with ten kids and your only income derived from fishing was probably pretty damned stressful.*_
> 
> They had WWI and WWII.
> 
> ...


Ten kids. Yep. My oldest sister (86) told me she thinks her upset stomach when she was a kid could very well have been hunger pains. My Dad was a coal miner. I'm the tenth of ten. At least in his later years he had unemployment in the summer months when he was laid off.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Milkman said:


> I think stress has always been a fact of life.
> 
> .


I can remember my Dad having 3 jobs at one point in his life! Brand new house in the burbs, another baby on the way(me) an many mouths to feed. Full time day job, part time evening job and a weekend job. 

and.............

we think we have it tough!

I guess it's all relevant though!


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## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

What has gotten worse.....

my tolerance of B.S.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

My permissiveness of games people play! I can't tolerate this!


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

RAM sticks

Seriously, I have never seen so many sticks of RAM fail within three years. Even worse, I suspect the faulty units are behind the Windows endpoint builder data leaks. That's been my experience. Are we dealing with a RAM plague, reminiscent of the Capacitor plague? Jesus murphy!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Krelf said:


> Frigging frames for my glasses. I got my first glasses in 1967 and the frames were hard black plastic that were literally indestructible. I lost them once and since I had my name on them, they were returned, but a lens was cracked. They had been driven over by a car, as the case had a tire mark over it. But the frames were fine!
> 
> Today these hyper expensive flimsy wire frames bend, break and drop lenses if you so much as breathe on them. Rub them a bit hard when cleaning and the lenses fall out. Leave them in your car on a cold day, the metal contracts and again the lenses fall out. Just useless overpriced crap that we're paying for!


Since I started wearing glasses 25 years ago the lenses have been hardened and photo greyed. They act as safety glasses and sun glasses. I put them on as I get out of bed and I take them off as I get into bed. When I got my first set it was a 2 for 1 sale at Pearl Vision so I got 2 pairs. I think with lenses the cost me $80. When i needed new glasses I would get new lenses in one of the pairs. That lasted until my youngest grand daughter was born 9 years ago. It's amazing how fast a small child can destroy glasses. My new frames cost $37 at the Walmart Eye Glasses place. I bought 2. The new lenses, bifocals by now cost around $350...with Blue cross I paid $100. 2 years ago I needed a new prescription so they went into the unused frames. Mine have always been the standard aviator, large lens type. Ride a bike with out a windshield and wearing a B.C. Beanie you need the eye protection. The biggest problem I have with these frames is the one cat likes to chew the nose pieces so now when I take them off I have to put them in the drawer. I'll stick with the less expensive frames.


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## MaxWedge (Feb 24, 2006)

My hearing. Significant loss two years ago after years of slow fade. I now have "hearing instruments" for both ears.


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## Moot (Feb 15, 2009)

Pop Tarts. They used to have filling all the way to the edges and frosting covering 95% of the top. Sure, we got some serious burns from toasting them too long and liquifying the frosting, but they were good! 
I tried one last week and there's almost no filling, a pitiful streak of frosting, and the "pastry" was dry and flavourless; crumbs pressed into a shape.


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## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

Toilet paper has shrunk in dimensions.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Moot said:


> Pop Tarts. They used to have filling all the way to the edges and frosting covering 95% of the top. Sure, we got some serious burns from toasting them too long and liquifying the frosting, but they were good!
> I tried one last week and there's almost no filling, a pitiful streak of frosting, and the "pastry" was dry and flavourless; crumbs pressed into a shape.


I didn't know you were a Pop Tart connesuir! I had to laugh at your post! Not in a mean spirited way! I have had one Pop Tart in my life and it was like eating cardboard.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Patient wait times at my doctor's appts. 

It seems that I used to about 15 minutes at my GP. Now I am there for 1 - 1 1/2 hours wait time. Doctors have a tendency to take on a way too many appts. 

When I do see him though, he actually spends a lot of time with my health concerns.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Lola said:


> Patient wait times at my doctor's appts.
> 
> It seems that I used to about 15 minutes at my GP. Now I am there for 1 - 1 1/2 hours wait time. Doctors have a tendency to take on a way too many appts.
> 
> When I do see him though, he actually spends a lot of time with my health concerns.


I deliberately ask for the first appt of the day so I can avoid the ridiculous wait times.

Funny, though, when I get there, before the doors open, I'm still waiting 15-30 minutes as several names get called before mine despite having the first appt of the day. And then I see my doctor stroll in...30 minutes AFTER my appt is scheduled...30 MINUTES AFTER.

When I do finally get to see her I've already spent another 15 minutes waiting in the exam room and have been seen by an intern. She pops in and asks the intern if there is anything she needs to attend to and the intern usually says no. She then says hi to me, smiles, then lets me know that everything looks good and is gone before I can say a word.

Would love to find another doctor but it isn't easy to find one taking new patients. SMH.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Two things that seem to me to have gotten worse are the sense of entitlement many people seem to have and the "me first" mentality of many drivers.

Maybe the two are connected somehow.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

What the hell have they done to smarties boxes? There's less smarties and the box no longer makes a good whistle when it's are empty. Another thing that's gotten worse is the comments when people see me with a young hottie on the back of my Harley.


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## Guest (May 23, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> Another thing that's gotten worse is the comments when people see me with a young hottie on the back of my Harley.


really!? .. you can hear what they're saying over the thumping of your hog? lol.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

laristotle said:


> really!? .. you can hear what they're saying over the thumping of your hog? lol.



Unfortunately Harleys are only loud to everybody OTHER than the rider.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Ti-Ron said:


> My dad is a real classic. Like a telecaster.
> No frill, no shrill, always reliable.
> 
> Born in 1950, always have the same haircut, same look (jeans, checked shirt, worker boot, glasses), didn't have a lot of money but a heart bigger than every wallet possible. He teached me a lot of stuff over the year. Have to admit it took me at least 25 years to notice the wealth of it. I wanted stuff he gave me thinking, the stupid teen I was didn't get it...


Same here. It wasn't until I hit 30 that I realized my dad was usually right about things & I started asking him for advice. 

He was born in Germany before WWII, so much of his childhood was spent in bomb shelters. They were hungry & had no idea if my grandfather would come home. My world at that age consisted of riding bikes & collecting hockey cards, I try to never forget how fortunate I am to have been born at the time & place I was.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Unfortunately Harleys are only loud to everybody OTHER than the rider.


I don't see anything wrong with this.....it stops people from talking on their phones while driving.

- - - Updated - - -



laristotle said:


> really!? .. you can hear what they're saying over the thumping of your hog? lol.


On the 'Glide, yes.....if I turn the stereo down. On the '81, no.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Lola said:


> Patient wait times at my doctor's appts.
> 
> It seems that I used to about 15 minutes at my GP. Now I am there for 1 - 1 1/2 hours wait time. Doctors have a tendency to take on a way too many appts.
> 
> When I do see him though, he actually spends a lot of time with my health concerns.


So you go to Norm too?:smile-new:

- - - Updated - - -



Milkman said:


> Unfortunately Harleys are only loud to everybody OTHER than the rider.


I love bikes and used to ride but I don't understand that loud mentality. I wish the police in Canada would have decibel laws like they do in some of the states. That noise is not necessary and is annoying.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Frankly I love the thunder of a Harley coming down the street! There's just something magical about the sound!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> So you go to Norm too?:smile-new:
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...


Edmonton has a law like that. When they fist ran it they tested a lot of vehicles including city vehicles and police bikes. I hear that half the bikes failed even tho, being police bikes, they were stock. My bike got stopped in a test and was labeled too loud. My exhaust system is stock and legal in most of North America but not in Edmonton. On any given day loud trucks with even louder stereos drive around with no problem....but not motorcycles. Places seem to pick on motorcycles. And loud pipes save lives. People don't seem to see motorcycles but if they hear them at least they might look. If you check you will probably find that where you live has anti-noise bylaws that cover everything including motor vehicles.


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## Guest (May 24, 2015)

loud pipes save lives.

edit; (beat me to it, by what, seconds?).


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Lola said:


> Frankly I love the thunder of a Harley coming down the street! There's just something magical about the sound!


You like the vibration more, especially with you on the back, don't you girl. You might have loved it here this morning.....28 bikes. Some places might have considered it noisy but not my neighbors. As far as I know there were no 'official' pictures taken but it was kinda funny seeing two radar traps on the street.

- - - Updated - - -



laristotle said:


> loud pipes save lives.
> 
> edit; (beat me to it, by what, seconds?).


There have been times where walking on the throttle and making noise has caused people to drop their phones while talking. Makes them pay more attention to their driving.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I can live without the noise. I think paying attention saves lives. Loud pipes just annoy your neighbors.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> You like the vibration more, especially with you on the back, don't you girl.


Wrong answer! I like the thunder of a Harley because it expresses to me power and freedom and NOT what you thought! It's offensively suggestive!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Lola said:


> Wrong answer! I like the thunder of a Harley because it expresses to me power and freedom and NOT what you thought! It's offensively suggestive!


To you it expresses power and freedom. To me it's all part of the lifestyle I've been living for a long, long time. The Thunder is just a small part of it.....heard by people standing on the side lines. Jump on a Harley and head out....the 'thunder', the sound of the wheels and the wind in your face. The vibration that climbs up your spine and get's you in tune with the road and then the universe. As far as the other vibration goes.....damned straight. There's a certain spot that gets you going.....ask any rider. As far as "offensively suggestive" goes; suggestive, yes....offensive, if you think so but I know lots of ladies, including my wife who would differ with you on that opinion. A lot of them, like my wife, ride their own bikes. As far as annoying the neighbors goes, around here it's fast drivers that speed through the school zone with their stereos blaring. They love the bikes.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> To you it expresses power and freedom. To me it's all part of the lifestyle I've been living for a long, long time. The Thunder is just a small part of it.....heard by people standing on the side lines. Jump on a Harley and head out....the 'thunder', the sound of the wheels and the wind in your face. The vibration that climbs up your spine and get's you in tune with the road and then the universe. As far as the other vibration goes.....damned straight. There's a certain spot that gets you going.....ask any rider. As far as "offensively suggestive" goes; suggestive, yes....offensive, if you think so but I know lots of ladies, including my wife who would differ with you on that opinion. A lot of them, like my wife, ride their own bikes. As far as annoying the neighbors goes, around here it's fast drivers that speed through the school zone with their stereos blaring.  They love the bikes.


Only Harley owners love that racket. pull up beside a Harley in traffic and you have to roll up your windows to even talk to your passenger.

Ridiculous IMO.


----------



## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Robert1950 said:


> The affordability of buying a house for the average working class family.


If anything I think homes have gotten cheaper relatively speaking. My parents only paid 60k for their house in the 80s but their interest rate was 14%. They both had pretty good jobs and it took half their income to pay the mortgage.


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## Guest (May 24, 2015)

what's the saying?


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

laristotle said:


> what's the saying?


Fixed it for you.:smile-new::smile-new:


----------



## Guest (May 24, 2015)




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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Only Harley owners love that racket. pull up beside a Harley in traffic and you have to roll up your windows to even talk to your passenger.
> 
> Ridiculous IMO.


Pull up next to any motorcycle these days and some people might have to do that. Others roll their windows down. Pull up to a diesel powered vehicle and you have to roll up your windows because of the noise and the smoke. Then you have to find someplace to clean your vehicle off.
[video=youtube;mD-QtDvX2Hc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD-QtDvX2Hc[/video] To me this sound is annoying, especially at traffic lights.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Movies.
the whole industry needs to be burned to the ground.
even the highly rated ones suck. Just finished watching one of the most over rated underwhelming crap fests..."Looper"...amazed to see it had a high rating in Rotten tomatoes when it's barely better than a made for TV movie.
300 was hyped also and sucked too....was better when it was called Gladiator and less ghey.
And of course there's much, much worse movies too. Our standard have become too low, or we are becoming stupider.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

women.
they just keep getting worse.
just when i think im all good, another one shows up-
even more messed up than the one who just left.
been progressing like this since the first one some 30 years ago-
am i the only one noticing this?

as a tribute to my nasty womenfolk and the disintegration of the written word-
my new band is called
THE KRAKHORES.
really, thats what we are calling ourselves.
pretty cool huh?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

laristotle said:


> what's the saying?



You're right. It's hard for me to understand why someone would prefer needless noise over modern engineering.

Harley's are a cool reminder of a past time and I can appreciate the history and although I don't share it, clearly there's a strong sense of image and identity (often fantasy) attached to the brand.

But, there are much, much better motorcycles out there.

Laugh at Honda all you want. I'd take a stripped down Goldwing anyday.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Diablo said:


> Movies.
> the whole industry needs to be burned to the ground.
> even the highly rated ones suck. Just finished watching one of the most over rated underwhelming crap fests..."Looper"...amazed to see it had a high rating in Rotten tomatoes when it's barely better than a made for TV movie.
> 300 was hyped also and sucked too....was better when it was called Gladiator and less ghey.
> And of course there's much, much worse movies too. Our standard have become too low, or we are becoming stupider.


Not sure about movies as I have not been to the theater in years to see a new release. But I would tend to agree. But certainly TV has taken a plunge over the years. New series, especially these reality shows seem to play to the lowest level of intelligence possible. I have not watched a series on TV since Sienfeld. Thank goodness for documentaries and sports or I would never watch anything. Same for radio. Since Howard Stern emerged 20 years ago and essentially changed the format of what hosts do, every team since has tried to be comedians and many can't pull it off. There is only so far you can go with bodily functions and sex before it becomes boring and totally unfunny


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Not sure about movies as I have not been to the theater in years to see a new release. But I would tend to agree. But certainly TV has taken a plunge over the years. New series, especially these reality shows seem to play to the lowest level of intelligence possible. I have not watched a series on TV since Sienfeld. Thank goodness for documentaries and sports or I would never watch anything. Same for radio. Since Howard Stern emerged 20 years ago and essentially changed the format of what hosts do, every team since has tried to be comedians and many can't pull it off. There is only so far you can go with bodily functions and sex before it becomes boring and totally unfunny


ya, its funny how now even tv shows parody the morning radio clowns...think the Simpsons have their own version of a morning radio team on occasionally.
Here in Toronto, even a sports station has 1...Dean Blundell...the 50 yr old frat boy.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

fraser said:


> women.
> they just keep getting worse.
> just when i think im all good, another one shows up-
> even more messed up than the one who just left.
> ...


This is pretty much biased bullshit! It makes me wonder about you! Why do you attract these kind of women?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

fraser said:


> women.
> they just keep getting worse.
> just when i think im all good, another one shows up-
> even more messed up than the one who just left.
> ...


Sounds like you've met some of my ex girlfriends who helped pass the time between marriages. Good thing about it is they never lasted long....most left when my money ran out.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Not sure about movies as I have not been to the theater in years to see a new release. But I would tend to agree. But certainly TV has taken a plunge over the years. New series, especially these reality shows seem to play to the lowest level of intelligence possible. I have not watched a series on TV since Sienfeld. Thank goodness for documentaries and sports or I would never watch anything. Same for radio. Since Howard Stern emerged 20 years ago and essentially changed the format of what hosts do, every team since has tried to be comedians and many can't pull it off. There is only so far you can go with bodily functions and sex before it becomes boring and totally unfunny


At the moment the wife and I are sort of watching 500 questions. Answering the questions keeps the mind alive.....sort of like doing crosswords on t.v.. As far as series goes, there's stuff on t.v. worse than I Love Lucy?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Lola said:


> This is pretty much biased bullshit! It makes me wonder about you! Why do you attract these kind of women?


Ya i gotta agree. most guys that Ive known to be entirely negative about women have "had issues" themselves or were homosexual.
when I look back at my failed relationships, ive got to take some responsibility for the role I played in them, whether it be immaturity, or other personal things going on...or sometimes just chalk it up to a bad combination where she was in a certain place and time and where I was in a different place and time in my life. They were all great girls, just maybe not for me, or maybe we had bad timing.

not to say I didn't meet a few psychos along the way...but if youre psycho-radar aint working, you gotta take some blame for that as well. or at least for still sticking around after its become obvious to anyone. that applies to women too.
that said, I do think women are changing...as more and more of them are getting recognition in the workplace, careers are prioritized etc, some of that girly stuff that we used to find so cute about them is fading. My wife is an example of that. But its a trade off I guess. kinda nice to not have to be the sole breadwinner of the house as well.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Not sure about movies as I have not been to the theater in years to see a new release. But I would tend to agree. But certainly TV has taken a plunge over the years. New series, especially these reality shows seem to play to the lowest level of intelligence possible. I have not watched a series on TV since Sienfeld. Thank goodness for documentaries and sports or I would never watch anything. Same for radio. Since Howard Stern emerged 20 years ago and essentially changed the format of what hosts do, every team since has tried to be comedians and many can't pull it off. There is only so far you can go with bodily functions and sex before it becomes boring and totally unfunny


There is certainly much chaff to sift through, in search of wheat, but the wheat can be of exceptional quality. The best of TV has certainly remained as high, if not improved, over the years. The problem is that the crap has become more voluminous and omnipresent.

If the demise of Seinfeld was what led you to turn off your hopes for sitcoms, I recommend "Curb Your Enthusiasm". Larry David, the brains behind Seinfeld, and basis for George Costanza's character, is the main character and brains behind CYE. The story arcs, and use of catastrophic coincidence, are every bit as good as Seinfeld episodes, and sometimes even better. The season that begins with Mel Brooks running into Larry at a Hollywood karaoke night and drafting him to play the Max Bialystok character in a Broadway resurrection of The Producers, has to be one of the most masterful story arcs I have ever seen on television. Of course, if George was your least favourite aspect of Seinfeld, you'll likely find CYE grating.

If you get Netflix, Ricky Gervais' two-season masterpiece "Derek" is simply lovely. By turns, biting, outrageous, warm and sensitive, it is probably one of the things you'd least expect of Gervais. "Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt" is also excellent, and comes from Tina Fey and other 30-Rock folks. As enjoyable as anything you've seen in the last 25-30 years. A delight to see Carol Kane on the screen again.

Nope, the small (these days, medium) screen has given truly creative thoughtful people a bigger canvas to work with, even though it has allowed a throng of charlatans to enter.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

mhammer said:


> There is certainly much chaff to sift through, in search of wheat, but the wheat can be of exceptional quality. The best of TV has certainly remained as high, if not improved, over the years. The problem is that the crap has become more voluminous and omnipresent.
> 
> If the demise of Seinfeld was what led you to turn off your hopes for sitcoms, I recommend "Curb Your Enthusiasm". Larry David, the brains behind Seinfeld, and basis for George Costanza's character, is the main character and brains behind CYE. The story arcs, and use of catastrophic coincidence, are every bit as good as Seinfeld episodes, and sometimes even better. The season that begins with Mel Brooks running into Larry at a Hollywood karaoke night and drafting him to play the Max Bialystok character in a Broadway resurrection of The Producers, has to be one of the most masterful story arcs I have ever seen on television. Of course, if George was your least favourite aspect of Seinfeld, you'll likely find CYE grating.
> 
> ...


coincidentally all of the shows you mention were produced for, as the americans call it "cable networks" eg HBO, Showcase, and I suppose Netflix. Those networks have always had the best of whats available on tv...Sopranos, Weeds, SOA, Boardwalk Empire, CYE, Breaking Bad, 6 ft under, Dexter etc.
there are some gems on comedy central as well...we took to Amy Poehlers "Broad city" last year, for example, and I think Key&Peele can be quite entertaining as well, in addition to the dumber stuff like Tosh.O, Nathan for you and Kroll Show.

Unfortunately the main networks cant think of anything of much than more court and forensic dramas that may be well produced, but often contain disturbing content eg The Blacklist...or more tripe like The Bachelorette, The Bachelor, Big Brother, Real Housewives of... etc. I find it to be very polarizing...90% of shows fall into the categories of hyper-serious or brain dead time wasters of reality tv (a euphemism for soft scripted junk played by low paid wanna-be actors desperate to break into Hollywood based on good looks alone. 
That middle ground is unfortunately where my house wants to be entertained.

But even the so-called quality "cable channels" originally with an educational focus now inundate us with junk shows about freaks with 19 kids and 7 wives, various ocean fishing and gold mining shows, and for some reason, about a dozen shows based in Alaska.
All part of the dumbing down and numbing of North America.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

My tolerance to humidity.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Diablo said:


> coincidentally all of the shows you mention were produced for, as the americans call it "cable networks" eg HBO, Showcase, and I suppose Netflix. Those networks have always had the best of whats available on tv...Sopranos, Weeds, SOA, Boardwalk Empire, CYE, Breaking Bad, 6 ft under, Dexter etc.
> there are some gems on comedy central as well...we took to Amy Poehlers "Broad city" last year, for example, and I think Key&Peele can be quite entertaining as well, in addition to the dumber stuff like Tosh.O, Nathan for you and Kroll Show.
> 
> Unfortunately the main networks cant think of anything of much than more court and forensic dramas that may be well produced, but often contain disturbing content eg The Blacklist...or more tripe like The Bachelorette, The Bachelor, Big Brother, Real Housewives of... etc. I find it to be very polarizing...90% of shows fall into the categories of hyper-serious or brain dead time wasters of reality tv (a euphemism for soft scripted junk played by low paid wanna-be actors desperate to break into Hollywood based on good looks alone.
> ...


Yes, but the quality shows are still there - they've just moved to a new channel. I used to like Speed. Then if went for shite, but now I find alot of what I liked on Speed is now on Velocity. There's good stuff there, you just have to find it. And of course the dummest, lamest stuff seems to be front and center.

I like the analogy to a library: just because there are lots of crappy books in a library, doesn't mean the building should be burnt down. The good stuff is still there too.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Diablo said:


> coincidentally all of the shows you mention were produced for, as the americans call it "cable networks" eg HBO, Showcase, and I suppose Netflix. Those networks have always had the best of whats available on tv...Sopranos, Weeds, SOA, Boardwalk Empire, CYE, Breaking Bad, 6 ft under, Dexter etc.
> there are some gems on comedy central as well...we took to Amy Poehlers "Broad city" last year, for example, and I think Key&Peele can be quite entertaining as well, in addition to the dumber stuff like Tosh.O, Nathan for you and Kroll Show.
> 
> Unfortunately the main networks cant think of anything of much than more court and forensic dramas that may be well produced, but often contain disturbing content eg The Blacklist...or more tripe like The Bachelorette, The Bachelor, Big Brother, Real Housewives of... etc. I find it to be very polarizing...90% of shows fall into the categories of hyper-serious or brain dead time wasters of reality tv (a euphemism for soft scripted junk played by low paid wanna-be actors desperate to break into Hollywood based on good looks alone.
> ...


Of course, the more channels and services there are, coupled with the expectation that programming should run 24/7 (I do miss the days of the sign-on/sign-off 
test screen, accompanied by the national anthem), the more any production company has to be able to deliver a show inexpensively. It is a maxim in the industry that "reality" shows are dirt cheap to produce, so if you need to fill up more channels with more programming, things will move inexorably in that direction...unfortunately.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> Yes, but the quality shows are still there - they've just moved to a new channel. I used to like Speed. Then if went for shite, but now I find alot of what I liked on Speed is now on Velocity. There's good stuff there, you just have to find it. And of course the dummest, lamest stuff seems to be front and center.
> 
> I like the analogy to a library: just because there are lots of crappy books in a library, doesn't mean the building should be burnt down. The good stuff is still there too.


"finding it" with my provider seems to mean "pay more for it". 
Im already shelling out $75/mo for my current package. I saw the Velocity preview. Yes, its pretty good, but I cant bring myself to increase my monthly bill in order to get something I used to get from Speed, which is already included.
At $75, im already at my tipping point for cancelling.
Even more abhorrent, is that many of these channels such as History are even playing infomercials on certain days/times....eg Saturday mornings. Im already paying a premium for this channel, now im paying to watch them increase their revenue stream with mop commercials??
Sickening.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Diablo said:


> "finding it" with my provider seems to mean "pay more for it".
> Im already shelling out $75/mo for my current package. I saw the Velocity preview. Yes, its pretty good, but I cant bring myself to increase my monthly bill in order to get something I used to get from Speed, which is already included.
> At $75, im already at my tipping point for cancelling.
> Even more abhorrent, is that many of these channels such as History are even playing infomercials on certain days/times....eg Saturday mornings. Im already paying a premium for this channel, now im paying to watch them increase their revenue stream with mop commercials??
> Sickening.


Haven't had cable in 10 years. Haven't looked back.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Despite 30 years or more of being told to reduce salt in our diets, there is still loads of it in restaurant food and fast foods and prepackaged foods,.....


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Robert1950 said:


> Despite 30 years or more of being told to reduce salt in our diets, there is still loads of it in restaurant food and fast foods and prepackaged foods,.....


Salt and sugar. Way, way too much of both. We don't even bother putting salt on the table and haven't for over 20 years.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Steadfastly said:


> Salt and sugar. Way, way too much of both. We don't even bother putting salt on the table and haven't for over 20 years.


Same here. When people visit our house and want salt or sugar, we have to rummage around in our cupboards and if they're lucky we may find some. The only time we use sugar is when we are making wine! Our condiments now are pepper, lemon juice and balsamic vinegar for meals and 1% milk for our tea and coffee.

Campbell's Soup must really be a boon to the salt industry, even after they bragged about "cutting down." We haven't bought canned soups in 20 years.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Krelf said:


> Same here. When people visit our house and want salt or sugar, we have to rummage around in our cupboards and if they're lucky we may find some. The only time we use sugar is when we are making wine! Our condiments now are pepper, lemon juice and balsamic vinegar for meals and 1% milk for our tea and coffee.
> 
> Campbell's Soup must really be a boon to the salt industry, even after they bragged about "cutting down." We haven't bought canned soups in 20 years.



Us too. We haven't had a salt and pepper shaker on the table for many years now.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> Salt and sugar. Way, way too much of both. We don't even bother putting salt on the table and haven't for over 20 years.


no way. Salt and sugar comprise 2 of the 4 basic food groups in our house (the other 2 being fat and alcohol).


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Salt should be an essential part of your cooking.

(If you're able)


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Canada food guide just upped the recommended intake of salt. I wonder if they will ever get it right?

(I suppose it will depend on who is lobbying them)

I rarely use the salt shaker.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Jim DaddyO said:


> I rarely use the salt shaker.


I cook with salt but I never add it at the table (unless I forgot it while cooking). What I don't get is the people who sit down to a meal, grab the salt shaker, and cover their food without ever having tasted it first.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Lincoln said:


> What I don't get is the people who sit down to a meal, grab the salt shaker, and cover their food without ever having tasted it first.


I tend to do that with pepper (NEVER salt). Your post has now made me aware that I should remember to hold back on doing this when invited to someone's home for a meal. It might be offending to the host(s) and nor considered "good manners". Thank You. 

I guess, in reality, I must not do it all that often or to any obvious extent as Mrs. Greco would have informed me of it by now!...LOL.

Cheers

Dave


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Some salt is needed in our diet, but one does not need to add it. Cold cuts, breakfast cereals, canned goods, fast food, snack food, sauces, bread, soft drinks, hams...just look at the labels for sodium. Most Canadians would have a difficult task completely avoiding salt, because it's already in so much of what they eat. But using a salt shaker is just making a bad situation worse. Even persons like myself who try to avoid it because we are are dealing with blood pressure problems, are likely still getting too much.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Lincoln said:


> I cook with salt but I never add it at the table (unless I forgot it while cooking). What I don't get is the people who sit down to a meal, grab the salt shaker, and cover their food without ever having tasted it first.



I remember being a young lad and watching The Galloping Gourmet (Graham Kerr) on TV and he said much the same thing. He was pondering on people who shake salt and pepper all over their meal before even having tasted it, it was kind of insulting, being a chef and all. Then a guest pointed out that it was a lot better than someone tasting it first, THEN adding all the salt and pepper to it.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

My wife is very light on the salt when she cooks, WAY TOO LIGHT, so I'll usually add a dash or two full well knowing how she cooks.

But then again, when she cooks there is usually lots of cheese involved so maybe she's onto something when she's holding back a bit of salt because I bet she's adding more cheese than a recipe calls for...lol.

On the other hand, I try to season as I cook but need to be conscious of the kids and dial back the pepper and spice and add that after we've dished up the kids' servings, if possible, or just to my plate.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Apparently, there is a municipal by-law in Buenos Aires that prohibits salt-shakers on restaurant tables, by default. Sodium levels in locals are apparently unreasonably high, so the by-law was invoked to just add a bit of inertia to restaurant cusomers. They can still request the salt, and the server brings it out. It just isn't on the table when you arrive, for you to smother your food reflexively.

I was surprised to learn about the unexpected roles of salt in commercially-prepared foods, while watching "Food Factory" on TV. They were visiting the Primo Foods factory, showing how cans of chick peas were prepared, and in the last few minutes, the voiceover announcer noted that salt was added to the packaging fluid _to keep the chick peas firm_. The salt draws the water out of the peas so that their _texture_ is palatable to consumers. I gather the same is true of most canned vegetables; they would be mushy as all get out if there were no salt in the can.

I'm not defending all that extra salt, merely noting that it's there for reasons other than one would normally suspect.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Jim DaddyO said:


> I remember being a young lad and watching The Galloping Gourmet (Graham Kerr) on TV and he said much the same thing. He was pondering on people who shake salt and pepper all over their meal before even having tasted it, it was kind of insulting, being a chef and all. Then a guest pointed out that it was a lot better than someone tasting it first, THEN adding all the salt and pepper to it.


That reminds me - I have all of his cookbooks (passed down from my mom). I should cook something interesting soon.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

When preparing canned vegetables, prior to cooking, you can empty the contents in a sieve or colander and run water over them to wash out much of the salt. You could also sink the sieve of vegetables in a pot of water for a minute or two to leach out the salt as well. Doing both is probably the best.

We have to be proactive about what we eat, as the food producers obviously couldn't care less.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

allthumbs56 said:


> That reminds me - I have all of his cookbooks (passed down from my mom). I should cook something interesting soon.


are they still relevant?
Food tastes do change...looking back a couple decades or more, few chefs today would prepare food the way Julia Child would have, for example...boiling lots of stuff, everything cooked all the way through, little variety in spices, the most exotic being paprika, etc.

- - - Updated - - -



johnnyshaka said:


> My wife is very light on the salt when she cooks, WAY TOO LIGHT, so I'll usually add a dash or two full well knowing how she cooks.
> 
> But then again, when she cooks there is usually lots of cheese involved so maybe she's onto something when she's holding back a bit of salt because I bet she's adding more cheese than a recipe calls for...lol.
> 
> On the other hand, I try to season as I cook but need to be conscious of the kids and dial back the pepper and spice and add that after we've dished up the kids' servings, if possible, or just to my plate.


I think your wife has it right....lightly salted, and leave additional seasoning to the tastes of the individual.

Amazes me how salty Wendys French fries are and then they also usually throw some additional salt packs in the take out bag. id like to see the person that actually feels the need to add more salt to them.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

I have no problem with the amount of salt in prepared foods and a salt shaker and pepper grinder are part of the table set up. What I don't like is when people take a perfectly good cut of meat of any sort and smother it in some sort of sauce. Doing that kills the taste of what you're cooking IMHO. 
I'm not sure about commercially canned foods but what mhammers says about using salt to keep foods from getting mushy is true for home canned foods. Especially if they're around for a while.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Diablo said:


> are they still relevant?
> Food tastes do change...looking back a couple decades or more, few chefs today would prepare food the way Julia Child would have, for example...boiling lots of stuff, everything cooked all the way through, little variety in spices, the most exotic being paprika, etc.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> ...


The cook books we use, family and friends, could be considered old. The wife still uses her mothers and grandmothers cookbooks, my sister uses our great grandmothers books. My great niece is in her third year of her apprenticeship. She doesn't have any galloping gourmet cook books but does have a a lot of Julia Childs books. So yeah, I'd say the old cook books are still relevant. As far as food tastes changing? If they have it's because a lot more microwaves are being used but for the most part they seem about the same to me. Unless there are diet conditions, most people seem to be eating the same kinds of meals they ate as kids. I'll leave the 'chefs' to the t.v. reality shows. 
Extra salt on fries with a burger etc.. Damned straight. Then dip them in gravy.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I got one for you.

The wait time in doctor's offices has gotten worse over the years. Why is it that a doctor seems to think nothing of running an hour behind schedule with appointments? 

and while we're on the subject, those medical salesmen who come in without an appointment and take up your doctor's time........putting him/her even further behind..........they give me a rash.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Lincoln said:


> I got one for you.
> 
> The wait time in doctor's offices has gotten worse over the years. Why is it that a doctor seems to think nothing of running an hour behind schedule with appointments?
> 
> and while we're on the subject, those medical salesmen who come in without an appointment and take up your doctor's time........putting him/her even further behind..........they give me a rash.


Amen, brotha!

http://www.guitarscanada.com/showth...ars-what-has-gotten-worse&p=624133#post624133


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

johnnyshaka said:


> Amen, brotha!
> 
> http://www.guitarscanada.com/showth...ars-what-has-gotten-worse&p=624133#post624133


:sSig_DOH: dam, I missed that page


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Everything has shifted to right since the days of Diefenbaker and Stanfield. The PCs were red tories, the Liberals were liberal and the NDP were straddling the the border between socialism and social democracy. Today the Conservatives are true blue conservatives, the Liberals are red tories, and the NDP are 60s definition liberals.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm certainly not one of them, but I imagine there are many who would categorize that as an improvement, rather than something getting worse.

I do think that what counts as election campaigning has definitely gotten worse. Some of you are old enough to remember Willie Horton ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Horton#Horton_in_the_1988_presidential_campaign ) and the infamous ad that put George Bush Sr. in the White House and kept MIke Dukakis out of it ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io9KMSSEZ0Y ). There's this particular selection of current ads: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/a...-and-most-willie-horton-political-ads-of-2014

Of course, all of that is American. But Canadian political advertising is not much better. It is hard for me to fully convey my profound distaste for campaign strategists and communications advisors.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

my hearing


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Lincoln said:


> I got one for you.
> 
> The wait time in doctor's offices has gotten worse over the years. Why is it that a doctor seems to think nothing of running an hour behind schedule with appointments?
> 
> ...


The wife and I go to a clinic.....4 drs at any time. Unless you want a specific dr you wait for who ever is available. We see 2 of the drs. Without an appointment the longest I've had to wait is 45 minutes.

- - - Updated - - -



Robert1950 said:


> Everything has shifted to right since the days of Diefenbaker and Stanfield. The PCs were red tories, the Liberals were liberal and the NDP were straddling the the border between socialism and social democracy. Today the Conservatives are true blue conservatives, the Liberals are red tories, and the NDP are 60s definition liberals.


You forgot Lester B. I wonder if harper's pic hangs in classrooms next to the Queens staring down at you the way Diefs did.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> The cook books we use, family and friends, could be considered old. The wife still uses her mothers and grandmothers cookbooks, my sister uses our great grandmothers books. My great niece is in her third year of her apprenticeship. She doesn't have any galloping gourmet cook books but does have a a lot of Julia Childs books. So yeah, I'd say the old cook books are still relevant. As far as food tastes changing? If they have it's because a lot more microwaves are being used but for the most part they seem about the same to me. Unless there are diet conditions, most people seem to be eating the same kinds of meals they ate as kids. I'll leave the 'chefs' to the t.v. reality shows.
> Extra salt on fries with a burger etc.. Damned straight. Then dip them in gravy.


Maybe its a generational thing then....in our house we're far more likely to have something inspired by Thai or Greek instead of meatloaf or pot roast sundays. The old classics just arent any fun any more. YMMV.
Now, deserts/baking are another matter. we go back to our grandmothers cook books for that.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Diablo said:


> Maybe its a generational thing then....in our house we're far more likely to have something inspired by Thai or Greek instead of meatloaf or pot roast sundays. The old classics just arent any fun any more. YMMV.
> Now, deserts/baking are another matter. we go back to our grandmothers cook books for that.


Never ate that much food for fun unless it was strawberries, whipped cream, maybe a Caramilk chocolate bar and a willing and adventurous partner. Here cooking is pretty basic and now usually things that a 9 and 10 year old can make. Took a while to convince them that Mac and Cheese does not come in a box or microwave container and you actually have to grate the cheese.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Ingredient lists on packaged food. Partly because of their increasing length, but also because of the many pieces of information manufacturers have to fit on the package, the lists are getting tinier and tinier.

I imagine character size is presently at about 1.5 to 2pt font for a great many products. Hell, I've seen ICs and transistors with bigger print. If you need to read ingredient lists when shopping, you end up needing to bring a magnifying glass. 

I regularly see observant Muslims in the dairy section squinting while they try to see if the yogurt has gelatin listed in the ingredients (gelatin being made from pig and cow bones). I tell them just to look for the kosher code on the package because that means there won't be gelatin, but mostly because it is larger print and _much_ easier to see. They are VERY appreciative.

I was saying to my son the other day that a great phone app would be one that allows you to enter into a database a list of things you need to avoid for health or religious reasons. You then use your phone to read the bar code, and the app tells you if its all clear or possibly problematic. So, serious shellfish allergy? Why spend 20 minutes squinting to see if the product "may contain" crustaceans, shrimp paste, fish sauce, etc. Just read the bar code, and have the app tell you the product is okay for you. 

For that matter, such a hypothetical app could be adapted to keep an eye out for general characteristics, like halal-compliant, kosher, lactose intolerant, celiac disease, or risk for any of a variety of storage disorders (e.g., PKU).


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Is there such thing a -1.5 to -2 font size? Because I am sure that's how small ingredient lists are.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

while we're talking health food......


You can't walk into a KFC for less than $30 anymore. :sSc_eeksign:


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Lincoln said:


> while we're talking health food......
> 
> 
> You can't walk into a KFC for less than $30 anymore. :sSc_eeksign:


KFC I can see....$30 is enough chicken, fries and gravy with sides for the grand daughters and us on the week end and then chicken for lunch for a couple of days at work. A couple of weeks ago I took a Friday off to be with the grand daughters.....they had the day off school. They talked me into McD's for lunch and then some fancy yogurt place for them for dessert. You get a container of yogurt and then add toppings, lots of toppings. They charge by weight. Cost me almost $70. Most of the toppings were healthy being fresh fruit but all the pieces were big and apparently heavy.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Ingredient lists on packaged food. Partly because of their increasing length, but also because of the many pieces of information manufacturers have to fit on the package, the lists are getting tinier and tinier.
> 
> I imagine character size is presently at about 1.5 to 2pt font for a great many products. Hell, I've seen ICs and transistors with bigger print. If you need to read ingredient lists when shopping, you end up needing to bring a magnifying glass.
> 
> ...


That's a good idea for an app although the liability might be problematic. Id steal the idea from you and give you 5% for thinking of it , but I wouldn't want to have lives dependent on my products data set being 100% accurate and up to date.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Diablo said:


> That's a good idea for an app although the liability might be problematic. Id steal the idea from you and give you 5% for thinking of it , but I wouldn't want to have lives dependent on my products data set being 100% accurate and up to date.


Very fair point. Especially regarding how up-to-date the database is. In some cases, ingredients can remain stable for decades (e.g., Heinz ketchup), but in others they can change over a period of a few months. I guess such an app would have to be accompanied by disclaimers and caveats.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Lola said:


> This is pretty much biased bullshit! It makes me wonder about you! Why do you attract these kind of women?


i know it sounds that way, but im not as biased at it sounds, and from my perspective its not bullshit.
just had bad luck and it changed my outlook on things.
i dont hate women- at all.
i spent the last couple years basically nursing somebody back to life-
only to watch her go out and whore herself out for crack.

after bitchface left me- i guess that was some 15 years ago-
then my next 2 girlfriends died,
i got drunk.
stayed that way ever since.
i dont meet nice girls.
and if i did, it would be weird.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Just don't be meeting your maker, bro'.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> Sounds like you've met some of my ex girlfriends who helped pass the time between marriages. Good thing about it is they never lasted long....most left when my money ran out.


lol. 
see above brother- i dont buy dope for anybody.
but i hear you.

- - - Updated - - -



mhammer said:


> Just don't be meeting your maker, bro'.


cheers mark.
heres some deep purple because i love you.

[video=youtube;3AL73LYo64A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AL73LYo64A[/video]


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

how about the price of a nice dammed rib eye steak..........!!!!!

this world is truly going to hell.

G.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

fraser said:


> i know it sounds that way, but im not as biased at it sounds, and from my perspective its not bullshit.
> just had bad luck and it changed my outlook on things.
> i dont hate women- at all.
> i spent the last couple years basically nursing somebody back to life-
> ...


I am sorry Fraser that I jumped down your throat. I apologize! You have really had a rough go of it!


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Lola said:


> I am sorry Fraser that I jumped down your throat. I apologize! You have really had a rough go of it!


its ok lola-
you are good people.
i say a lot of stupid stuff lol.
one day i will learn to just shut up.
until then.....

[video=youtube;ZRAr354usf8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRAr354usf8[/video]


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

fraser said:


> lol.
> see above brother- i dont buy dope for anybody.
> but i hear you.
> 
> ...


Amen. When you got, you share. When there's nothing left to share some leave. Nice Deep Purple.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> Amen. When you got, you share. When there's nothing left to share some leave. Nice Deep Purple.


you ever feel like drinking a bunch of beer- ill wrestle with ya
i dont smoke anything but cigarettes.
but i understand-
cheers m8


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

fraser said:


> its ok lola-
> you are good people.
> i say a lot of stupid stuff lol.
> one day i will learn to just shut up.
> until sethen.....


Fraser it was very wrong of me to make such an assumption. I apologize once again. I try really hard never to be judgmental but based upon what I hear I open my big yap and say what's on my mind. Forgive me pls! 

Yes, people are strange!


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