# "The record business is over"



## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

Overall CD sales have plummeted sixteen percent for the year so far -- and that's after seven years of near-constant erosion. In the face of widespread piracy, consumers' growing preference for low-profit-margin digital singles over albums, and other woes, the record business has plunged into a historic decline.

The major labels are struggling to reinvent their business models, even as some wonder whether it's too late. "The record business is over," says music attorney Peter Paterno, who represents Metallica and Dr. Dre. "The labels have wonderful assets -- they just can't make any money off them." One senior music-industry source who requested anonymity went further: "Here we have a business that's dying. There won't be any major labels pretty soon."


Whaddya think, are the big labels doomed?


*Full Article*


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Good bye scumbags, remember to shut the door on your way out...........


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2007)

We can hope... The "Big Labels" are most of what's wrong with the music business... 

Indy labels are not only surviving, but they are thriving, mostly because they are taking advantage of advances in tech (like the net, and file sharing) that Big Labels are not... 


(It's not like Free Music is a new concept.... It's been around since radio... What happens now with piracy is EXACTLY the same thing that was going on with cassette tapes and the like.... The impact of so-called 'piracy' has been blown WAY out of proportion by Big Labels who are unwilling to admit they have skited where they eat, and now don't like the taste.)

Good riddance to 'em!


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

What kills me is that the big labels could have OWNED the retail side of the biz by simply keeping up with the times. Instead, they spent years whining and complaining while Apple, (a company not even IN the music biz let alone a leader) stole the show.

*Apple now third-largest U.S. music retailer: survey*


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Actually they were far too busy putting the malachi crunch on retailers to notice..............


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## adamthemute (Jun 18, 2007)

After years and years, hype and one radio-friendly hit don't sell records anymore. Especially considering you can buy that one song from iTunes, etc. Maybe the public is finally getting bored with generic copy bands and singers that rely and their sex appeal and not musical talent?

Look at bands like Nine Inch Nails and Pearl Jam. Sure their records don't sell as much as they did 5-10 years ago, but they easily sell 15000+ tickets to a concert. Music is alive and well. The people are just bored me thinks.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2007)

"The people are just bored me thinks."

They also have access to MUCH more entertainment now than they did as little as 30 years ago.... Thanks to the internet and streaming content... (And other things)

So, people are more picky than they were. They can afford to be.


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## GuitaristZ (Jan 26, 2007)

I think CDs will finally become obsolete...just as vinyl LP/8 tracks have. Won't be long, and they wont even have mp3s


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2007)

I'm kinda surprised that more portable players (Boom boxes, "walkmans" and car stereos for example) aren't equipped with USB connections so they can play mp3s (or whatever format) stored on such.....

Or are they, and I'm simply unaware?


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## chaoscypher (Jun 4, 2007)

I find the biggest thing that stops me from buying CDs is the price.

I went to HMV and Music World the other day and saw the new Dream Theatre album...for 25 bucks.... So I walked over to the 2 for $10 shelf and got 4 decent CD's (The Guess Who, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Rainbow, Whitesnake) for five dollars less than a new CD.

If I had a credit card I would be more inclined to buy mp3's from the net but for most of us under 18 we don't possess such magic.


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## GuitaristZ (Jan 26, 2007)

ClintonHammond said:


> I'm kinda surprised that more portable players (Boom boxes, "walkmans" and car stereos for example) aren't equipped with USB connections so they can play mp3s (or whatever format) stored on such.....
> 
> Or are they, and I'm simply unaware?


Newer car stereos have connections (not USB though) for mp3 players I believe. I saw some in the paper a little while ago, and they arent that expensive. They usually advertise them as "comes with an ipod cable" or something like that. Its probably just a cable with a 1/8" jack on one head (headphone jack) to plug into the headphone out on your mp3 player.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

See my thread - Last buy at Sam's.

Also, when I was looking for the ABB - Live at the Filmore - Deluxe Ed., it was $55. for the CDs. I downloaded for $20 from iTunes.


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2007)

"Newer car stereos have connections for mp3 players"
All I've seen is the occasional 1/8th" "Aux In" jack....


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## hoser (Feb 2, 2006)

Robboman said:


> "The labels have wonderful assets -- they just can't make any money off them."[FONT]




What a lie. The labels mostly have "artists" who are incapable of writing songs, can't sing live, can't release a coherant album and their careers are built on singles and trends. and forget rock bands, unless they can get a hit on their first album. the days of development deals are dead, and so is the evolution of artists.
the industry itself has thrown artist loyalty and consistency out the window and created a flavor of the week fast food environment. the last 20 years have been like watching a 5 star restaurant slowly turn into a Mcdonald's.

I find it astounding that these industry weasels have only been making noise about this over the last 5 years or so. The music industry went to pot long before the internet rose in popularity. Don't blame the consumer because you stopped caring about art.



ClintonHammond said:


> They also have access to MUCH more entertainment now than they did as little as 30 years ago.... Thanks to the internet and streaming content... (And other things)


yep, I think dvds, videogames, streaming movies, and online content play a huge role in this as well. with more choices than ever, the weakest industry is going to suffer.



ClintonHammond said:


> I'm kinda surprised that more portable players (Boom boxes, "walkmans" and car stereos for example) aren't equipped with USB connections so they can play mp3s (or whatever format) stored on such.....
> 
> Or are they, and I'm simply unaware?





ClintonHammond said:


> "Newer car stereos have connections for mp3 players"
> All I've seen is the occasional 1/8th" "Aux In" jack....


the "aux in" is the mp3 player in. all you have to do is use a stereo 1/8th cable and plug it in. most new car stereos also play mp3 cds or dvds.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

IMO the big labels will fade away. (Hopefully). As for artists who can't write or perform...I think the big labels applied cookie cutter madness to their business model and it has produced such shit that people are fed up. There is a ton of talent out there they are just not necessarily on the cover of every magazine cover. They are actually in CD racks across the world and on file sharing sites etc...You just have to look. 

I don't buy an album anymore without hearing a clip of every tune - unless of course the album is by some of my favorite artists then it doesn't matter, I want to hear what they wrote and what they have to say. Luckily we as consumers have more of a choice.


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## Geek (Jun 5, 2007)

> Whaddya think, are the big labels doomed?


:banana:



Accept2 said:


> Good bye scumbags, remember to shut the door on your way out...........


My sentiments exactly.


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## gproud (Mar 2, 2006)

The big labels are doomed. For the very simple reason (that was already stated by someone) that they refused to jump on the Technology Bandwagon when they had a chance (instead, they whined about it and how much money they were losing) and they got left behind. I think it would be interesting to see the 'business' side put into the lap of the artist, like a lot of very successful indie artists do, and see which ones are still standing when the smoke clears. I was listening to an old 4 Track (cassette, not reel-to-reel) demo I did with a band I was in back in '94, and then listened to some quick riffage I put down on my Guitarport; and it's amazing how much technology has come along in 13 years. The ability is there for an artist to do a 'decent' recording without spending $1000's in a studio, and get it out to the masses via the World Wide Web. I myself personally prefer analog recording, but there's no escaping the digital world when it comes to music. From recording it, to downloading it, to listening to it, to deleting it because you don't like it. Maybe it's a sad state of affairs, but we either have to embrace the technology, or get left behind. That's what the record companies are doing; getting left behind to fade into oblivion.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Remember the days when you could not wait to get a few bucks in your pocket and zoom down to the record store to pick up some wax? Those were the days man... all over now.


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## gproud (Mar 2, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Remember the days when you could not wait to get a few bucks in your pocket and zoom down to the record store to pick up some wax? Those were the days man... all over now.


+1 Waiting for the store to open to pick up the new album of ______, then finding out they couldn't officially sell it until noon or some such thing; and being on pins and needles waiting to crack it open and put it on. You know, music has been missing something since the static/crackle of vinyl. It's so pristine, sterilized sounding now...

And I'm only 34. Geez...


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...some great observations here.

this is particularly relevant, as i consider myself a new artist, about to release my first commercial cd.

i have no idea where to start, although i like the idea of working with an agressive idependent. certainly i have little interest in approaching the big labels. what is there, maybe three left?

-dh


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

david henman said:


> ...some great observations here.
> 
> this is particularly relevant, as i consider myself a new artist, about to release my first commercial cd.
> 
> ...


Jon Bon Jovi was on Howard Stern last week and the question came up "why did you guys do American Idol?" Bob Jovi basically said that radio "rock radio" is dead. Very little air play today for rock bands. So he say's it's one of the only ways remaining to get your new material out. TV. Of course that assumes you are big enough to get on TV and make that choice. Not sure what a new artist would do today.


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

I remember the days when getting a record deal was not like getting a mortgage.

For years now, signing with a major label meant that you enter into an agreement and sign on the dotted line that states that they will 'front' the money for a release and you make nothing untill all of the costs are payed back, with a profit for the record company and a few penalties thrown in for good measure.

Hopefully we go full circle and get back to having musicians that play live for a living, as things should be.


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

Hamm Guitars said:


> Hopefully we go full circle and get back to having musicians that play live for a living, as things should be.


+1. The good news is that the touring business is booming despite high ticket prices, and despite competition from DVDs, games and the web.


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## AJ6stringsting (Mar 12, 2006)

The music industry has ripped off artists for decades and are narcissistic / psychopaths, that will run an artist or the industry down .... And they don't care.

The Beatles, Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin were smart enough to form their own lables and were more fair to the acts the signed, than the established record labels.
Look at Bad Company, they earned more money on Swann Song, than they would have on a established label.

Another example, is Bad Finger, who were originally signed to the Beatles label Apple.
They jumped ship and signed with a couple of greedy managers who steered them into some bad deals that eventually led to Pete Ham to commit suicide, after he found out that the managers took their money and put them in debt with the label for millions of dollars.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I’ve seen some necrobumps in my time but this is a doozie.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

6 reasons why old music is endangering the music of today and the future - National | Globalnews.ca


A recent report has the industry clutching its pearls in horror: listeners prefer old music over new releases. Alan Cross says he thinks he knows why.




globalnews.ca


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

The record industry was originaly a 'singles' market...wasn't so much an LP thing...

Cars now rarely come with a cd player, and even the 1/8" jack is becoming a dinosaur..esspecially on the heels of Apple...they havent had headphone jacks in awhile

I remember buying albums in the 90's...was just as bad then...1 good song with 10 songs of filler

Ive bought quite a few stellar albums that didnt do great commercially and the band was dropped...always thought it was funny that, back in the 70's bands would disappear to another country for 6months to record an album...dont hear about that now

I seem to recall an interview with Pete leoffler from Chevelle last year...after 20 some years in the business, with a couple hits...they barely break even

It also doesnt help that there are probably 5:1 classic rock stations to modern rock stations in canada...and the new songs that they do play, all sound the same...which you could trace back to nickleback...remember how every band sounded like them after how you remind me came out?

I wont be quiting my day job any time soon


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Interesting to go back in time of sorts, and read about mp3s... buying music on iTunes was only 3 years old! I don't think anyone thinks of streamed music as mp3s anymore, even if they are.
CDs did die... the european label EMI folded up... not sure if other labels did or not.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

They're far from dead. They have a lot of capitol and copyrighted content with alternative revenue streams.

CDs being out is old news. Remember vinyl is back (reissues of classic albums alone are a very low cost revenue source) but still not enough on it's own. But online streaming services and other royalty producing placements (movies and TV) will make up the difference. They have the clout to negotiate higher royalty payments unlike indie artists (which means indie artist royalties go down - it's gotta come from somewhere). Hell, those bastards are even starting to take a bigger cut of artist tour revenue and merch sales. Merch sales for frick sakes. They won't die easily, not without squeezing every last drop they can out of a band.

Worry not about them, and do not toast their demise prematurely.



ezcomes said:


> Ive bought quite a few stellar albums that didnt do great commercially and the band was dropped...always thought it was funny that


There is a fate worse than being dropped. In fact the ones that are dropped are lucky (you don't have to repay production or promotion costs - if they break the deal you are no longer obligated either). You could be shelved. Your album never gets released and since you're committed to them for another (for example) 2, you can't take it, or even a new album with new songs, anywhere else. Sometimes you can't even be a band anymore - if you want to be able to continue to make music you have to break up - go solo or form a new band. They can just keep you in limbo like that.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

tomee2 said:


> Interesting to go back in time of sorts, and read about mp3s... buying music on iTunes was only 3 years old! I don't think anyone thinks of streamed music as mp3s anymore, even if they are.
> *CDs did die*... the european label EMI folded up... not sure if other labels did or not.


Not so fast there, mister...

Jewel-Box Heroes: Why the CD Revival Is Finally Here

This was an interesting observation...

_But the CD took a tumble in the post-Napster years. MP3s sounded tinny by comparison, but they were convenient and (usually) free. Yet a funny thing happened: Those downloads got lost in the shuffle of data migration. This is the era that Esquire’s Dave Holmes memorably summed up as the “Deleted Years.” As Holmes wrote, “Everything you bought from 2003 to 2009 is stuck on a dusty iPod for which a charger can no longer be found, or on a MacBook that’s three MacBooks ago. Whether you bought that whole first Kaiser Chiefs album or just plunked down the 99 cents for ‘I Predict A Riot,’ you don’t have it anymore.”_


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Sneaky said:


> Not so fast there, mister...
> 
> Jewel-Box Heroes: Why the CD Revival Is Finally Here
> 
> ...



Yeah, but instead of buying CDs people just get subscriptions (pay or free with ads) to an online streaming service - take yer pick: Spotify, Apple, Amazone, Deezer....

All the music you like with you wherever you are on any device.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Yeah, but instead of buying CDs people just get subscriptions (pay or free with ads) to an online streaming service - take yer pick: Spotify, Apple, Amazone, Deezer....
> 
> All the music you like with you wherever you are on any device.


Yes. And youtube. Most music made pre-CD was never put onto CD. Lots of obscure groups and recordings only existed on LP, 45s, etc.. interestingly people are now digitizing those recordings, and putting them on youtube.


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## AJ6stringsting (Mar 12, 2006)

The Industry is in a tail spin .... Good Riddence !!!!

It's a long time coming ....


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

we're just on our way back to a singles market...we just don't have the 45's that they would normally come with


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## lookitsmarc (Aug 16, 2008)

Sneaky said:


> Not so fast there, mister...
> 
> Jewel-Box Heroes: Why the CD Revival Is Finally Here
> 
> ...


I found this interesting because I recently had the opposite experience. For Apple in particular, as long as you maintain your account (or just update your email address if it changes over time), you still have access to all those old downloads. I just downloaded Apple Music on my phone and when I logged in, the first thing it did was show me my purchases I made way back in 2007 and asked if I wanted to download them.


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