# Modes!



## Lola

Do I really need to learn modes? It just seems like too much to learn! I have tried to learn them before but I have to admit I waved the white flag! Our band is doing covers so the only time they might come in handy is when I play a blues improvisation! 

What would be the easiest way to learn them? If someone has any links that they think might be useful, pls direct me!


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## amagras

Once you understand that modes are just the same major scale we all know but starting from a different point every time you'll start looking at them as a whole. 

Let's take for example the C major scale: c, d, e, f, g, a, b, c, d, e, etc
If instead of using c as the starting note of your scale you use d you'll get this: d, e, f, g, a, b, c, d. That's called D Dorian scale and it's used to play over minor chords. 

The most important modes imo are Ionian (but this one everybody knows because it the same major scale), Dorian and Mixolydian: major scale started from its 5th (g, a, b, c, d, e, f, g). 

To be able to improvise without restrictions you should be able to understand the relation between these scales as a whole, all of them share the same notes, the only differences are the starting points.


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## JBFairthorne

I don't think it's necessary to learn them all, unless you're motivated to. There are only a handful that are commonly used in rock, blues, country. Once you get into jazz though (or some other form of highly improvisational music), you'll find others used more. However, sometimes it's cool to know where this weird, unexpected note in a solo you like is coming from. Also, with horizontal improvisation (soloing in a scale based on the key of the song) you probably won't use many scales but with vertical improvisation (soloing in various scales based on the chord being played and it's relationship within the key of the song) you'll find the need for deeper mode knowledge.

At the end of the day, it's all about the RIGHT notes. People get there different ways. Do you need to know them? No. Would knowing them make you a better musician with a much better ear for phrasing? Yes.

As far as an easy way to learn? None that I know of other than actually USING them and learning to recognize when they're being used.


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## Adcandour

How long have you been playing again? 2 years?

You must be a prodigy or something.


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## JBFairthorne

Me or the OP? 20 plus years...the exact OPPOSITE of a prodigy, I've struggled for every tidbit I've learned. Only just recently have I begun to scratch the surface of theory. More to understand what I was already doing rather than learning how to do something else.


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## Guest

I have no understanding of scales/modes, whatsoever.
If the note doesn't sound right in a lead, avoid it.


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## Guitar101

Lola said:


> Do I really need to learn modes? It just seems like too much to learn!


Since I've been playing for 40+ years and have no idea what your talking about, I'm going to say no. Unless you want to.


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## garrettdavis275

I'm glad I learned them. It was probably the single biggest "unlocking the fretboard" lesson I got. I don't think you need a jazz level understanding of them, but at least the way the 7 modes relate to each other is pretty clutch. It's pretty straight forward, I haven't looked but I'm sure there's dozens of good series of lessons on youtube that covers them well.


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## Adcandour

JBFairthorne said:


> Me or the OP? 20 plus years...the exact OPPOSITE of a prodigy, I've struggled for every tidbit I've learned. Only just recently have I begun to scratch the surface of theory. More to understand what I was already doing rather than learning how to do something else.


I was referring to OP


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## amagras

Probably the most important thing you can learn about the modes is their relationship with the key and it's chords. The way I learned it is simple: 

Let's use the the key of C major. You have a scale (c major) and a chord (c major) that starts in the note c, also called the first degree of the c major scale. Now, the c major scale has more notes right? You can build a chord starting on any of them, if you put them in order the would be C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bm. 

Knowing this, you can also build a scale for any of these chords: the modes. They are called Ionian or major, Dorian or minor, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian or dominant, Aeolian or natural minor and Locrian and they are directly related to the chords C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bm. 

Once you understand their relationship with the major scale the will become part of a whole and that's the main reason many people don't need to learn the modes, this way whenever you are playing over G dominant chord you'll be using G Mixolydian scale but many musicians will say that you are simply using the C major scale. Just a different approach. 

Hope this helps something


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## Lola

But with every mode there are incidentals like the sharp notes! I know when you play down a scale you called them b's! I should know them and did once time but I didn't pursue it!

It's like shit, so much to learn. Maybe if I took a mode and gave my self a week per mode. That seems more doable to me! Learn them all over the fret board!


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## Hamstrung

I found this to be helpful...


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## amagras

Lola said:


> But with every mode there are incidentals like the sharp notes! I know when you play down a scale you called them b's! I should know them and did once time but I didn't pursue it!
> 
> It's like shit, so much to learn. Maybe if I took a mode and gave my self a week per mode. That seems more doable to me! Learn them all over the fret board!


There are several methods, you have to decide which one works best for you. Music, like many other things is about finding what works best for you instead of trying to learn every approach there is. 

There are incidentals but they are always the same! At least for every mode in the key. If you are playing the modes of G major all of them will have the same F# and nothing more because that's the only incidental in G major....and all of its modes! I choose for my explanation the key of C major because it has no incidentals and in guitar is simple to transpose keys so no need to break your head.


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## GTmaker

by far the most direct and functional way that I have ever seen MODES presented.
Thanks a bunch to Hamstrung for digging it up.

G.




Hamstrung said:


> I found this to be helpful...


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## Analogman

I found this Truefire course beneficial, he goes through how the chords are constructed, the scales and the arpegios for each mode and has jam tracks to play along with.


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## Lola

I did like Rob Chapmans video! I understood it! Learning it and then using it in a rehearsal situation is going to be a task though! I have to take this a bit at a time though! I have to check out the Truefire vid! Thx!


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## Dorian2

Good for starting on the Modes so early. Be warned, it'll be tough and confusing at first, but once you get it, you won't forget it.

I have nothing really new to add at this point (OK maybe I do). But I will say that try not putting the cart in front of the horse if possible.

Some key points (IMO) to consider:

* I'll assume that you know the Major scale and how it is structured. This is the beginning, back in 1955...man didn't know 'bout a ....anyways......
- The key for me to understanding modes was to know that each note in the Major scale is also a chord based on the scale's structure (Major, minor, diminished), the basis of music theory:

I ii iii IV V vi vii
C Dm Em F G Am bdim

- Learn, practice and understand the Relative Minors (start with key of C). I think you know that Am is the Relative minor in the key of C Major..... 6th note right? . 6th note in ANY major key is the Aeolian mode, very popular mode in much of the music you listen to from my understanding. Typically played over minor chords (Am in C Major is A Aeolian). Same scale as A Natural Minor.

- Do you know all positions of the C Major scale starting on each note of the scale? Learn them if you do not. They are generally referred to as "positions", just like Pentatonics. Once you know the C Major scale starting on each note of the C Major scale, starting on the low E string, you have the patterns of the Modes as well.

These particular patterns are the 3 note per string patterns. There are other patterns for each as well. I posted these because they cover more ground up and down the neck. The white notes on the patterns are the roots of the modes, so you also need to know the notes on your low E string at the very minimum.










Here are the standard Major scale patterns:









- You know how you have recently learned how to connect the 5 Pentatonic positions? Do the same with the 7 Major scale patterns (mode patterns).

I'll stop there. This is a process where certain building blocks have to be in place. I think you have a good start with the posts in this thread. Glad to see that type of question from a beginner for sure though. Shows the desire you have to get better.


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## Distortion

Lola if you know your major and minor scale you all ready have two modes. Learn the mixolydian and the Dorian mode also. The rest you probably will not use.
BTW this is the wrong place to get your info because I see some wrong information.


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## Lola

I will source out some info on this! I checked out Justin Sandercoe's forum on modes. He really is an amazing teacher and has a great way of explaining the modes! I will give anyone who's interested the link. I just have to find it! Be back in a moment!


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## amagras

For me Justin is the way to go. His yt is fabulous.


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## Lola

I found it!

V=http://www.justinguitar.com/en/SC-501-ModesIntro.php


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## Dorian2

I just read the first couple of lessons from Justin Guitar. He's great at what he does there. His marketing technique is second to none as well. I think if you knock off what he says point by point, that would be great.


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## Lola

You know what's so great about Justin's site? It's free but you can donate to the site if you want to!! You don't have to! It's a professionally set up website. When I first learned to play, it was his site that I was always on! I still do some of the exercises like 1 minute chord changes. You pick maybe some new chord changes to work on and see how many you can do in a minute! I use it all the time!


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## Gimper

Just found this... http://www.guitarworld.com/jazz-guitar-corner-learn-all-seven-major-modes-easy-way


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## Dorian2

Gimper said:


> Just found this... http://www.guitarworld.com/jazz-guitar-corner-learn-all-seven-major-modes-easy-way


Cool. Never saw that before.....I see it as really helpful learning the modes in a certain position on the neck. But to my way of thinking, learning the modes in one position could possibly take away the process of connecting all the positions on the fretbaord as you are soloing or improvising. It would be great for the fast chord changes found in jazz. But if you doing a rock tune and (to use a jazz term), comping (or riffing) on a certain chord....say the A minor in a 12 barre Blues improve, there wouldn't be a lot of movement.

Keep in mind this is the first time I've seen this and have not used it, so I could be wrong if others think differently than me.


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## Lola

I have decided NOT to learn modes! The reason being is: the music style that I am attempting to perfect doesn't use them. I don't know where I would use them and how. It just doesn't pertain to my big over all picture. Why learn something and waste all that time and energy when all I really need is the minor, minor pentatonic and blues scales. 

I mean it would be absolutely ludicrous if I wasted my precious time on something that's not going to serve a purpose.


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## Hamstrung

Lola said:


> I have decided NOT to learn modes! The reason being is: the music style that I am attempting to perfect doesn't use them. I don't know where I would use them and how. It just doesn't pertain to my big over all picture. Why learn something and waste all that time and energy when all I really need is the minor, minor pentatonic and blues scales.
> 
> I mean it would be absolutely ludicrous if I wasted my precious time on something that's not going to serve a purpose.


So no Santana then?


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## Lola

Hamstrung said:


> So no Santana then?


LOL! I love Santana but to learn it I am not motivated to do as such!


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## Lola

and I forgot the major pentatonic scale as well!


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## amagras

You can always learn the modes of the major pentatonic, they are only 5!


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## Dorian2

You know what Lola. If you have decided to not learn the modes, at this particular time in your development, roll with what you've learned. But if you continue on with this "fad" called Rock and Roll guitar playing, there will come a point in the process that you WILL hit a wall that must be climbed. Like many of the walls you have already taken down. Just learn to use the Pentatonic musically and you will most likely be pushed into learning and understanding the other stuff as well.

I'd also recommend getting a guitar teacher if it's affordable for you. I have to disagree with what Justinguitar says regarding when NOT to learn scales. At least the way he tends to explain it. He is basically saying not to learn a scale because "someone".....that being a teacher say......on youtube say.....said to learn this because it is important later, but you have no clue WHY. IMHO, and the way I go about it with students, is one lesson I will begin a concept like the I-IV-V progression. Then go to variation of such. Then add more chords to color their world a bit. Make it all spiffy like.

At some relatively close point, in around the 4th or 5th lesson, depending on the specific individual, I'll happen to mention the Pentatonics and relative majors and minors. I almost forgot, during the previous lessons, as the student(s) are going through the changes of the 3 or 4 chords they now know, I "sprinkled" in and few little Pentatonic runs in amongst the chords as I showed them how it can be used. So when I mention Pentatonics again, I'll ask them to play the chords as I dazzle them with an awe inspiring Pentatonic lick, consisting of an entire 3 or 4 notes arranged slightly differently each time, to blow their ass out of the seat.

Then I snicker to myself and I ask them if they see where this Pentatonic concept is going. You can't really teach that on the internets.

This also applies to modes, scales, arpeggios, chords, music theory....ad nausea. That's just my take though.


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## Lola

Dorian2 said:


> You know what Lola. If you have decided to not learn the modes, at this particular time in your development, roll with what you've learned. But if you continue on with this "fad" called Rock and Roll guitar playing, there will come a point in the process that you WILL hit a wall that must be climbed. Like many of the walls you have already taken down. Just learn to use the Pentatonic musically and you will most likely be pushed into learning and understanding the other stuff as well.
> 
> I'd also recommend getting a guitar teacher if it's affordable for you. I have to disagree with what Justinguitar says regarding when NOT to learn scales. At least the way he tends to explain it. He is basically saying not to learn a scale because "someone".....that being a teacher say......on youtube say.....said to learn this because it is important later, but you have no clue WHY. IMHO, and the way I go about it with students, is one lesson I will begin a concept like the I-IV-V progression. Then go to variation of such. Then add more chords to color their world a bit. Make it all spiffy like.
> 
> At some relatively close point, in around the 4th or 5th lesson, depending on the specific individual, I'll happen to mention the Pentatonics and relative majors and minors. I almost forgot, during the previous lessons, as the student(s) are going through the changes of the 3 or 4 chords they now know, I "sprinkled" in and few little Pentatonic runs in amongst the chords as I showed them how it can be used. So when I mention Pentatonics again, I'll ask them to play the chords as I dazzle them with an awe inspiring Pentatonic lick, consisting of an entire 3 or 4 notes arranged slightly differently each time, to blow their ass out of the seat.
> 
> Then I snicker to myself and I ask them if they see where this Pentatonic concept is going. You can't really teach that on the internets.
> 
> This also applies to modes, scales, arpeggios, chords, music theory....ad nausea. That's just my take though.


I guess I am the point where I am overwhelmed with information about what to learn and what not to learn. I have to base what I learn around my goals or the bigger picture if you will! My goal at the current time is to learn to play in the style of Angus Young. Right now what I need to focus on is on my list of priorities. This could possible take me the rest of my time on planet earth to attain this goal.

This is what I am currently focusing on:

Pentatonics-major, minor and a blend there of
Blues scales
Minor scale
Arpeggios-major, minor
Triads-major, minor

Techniques
Bending
Legato-hammer ons and pull offs
vibrato
string skipping
raking
alternate picking
sweep picking
hybrid picking

improvisation

and......different strum patterns!

I have also had formal guitar lessons! I am at the point where I can teach myself. I know exactly what my goals are as defined above! So it's just a matter of practice and playing with the band to see my goals come to fruition!

Maybe one day I will change my mind but as you see I have enough to keep me busy for a very long time!


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## Hamstrung

Lola said:


> I guess I am the point where I am overwhelmed with information about what to learn and what not to learn. I have to base what I learn around my goals or the bigger picture if you will! My goal at the current time is to learn to play in the style of Angus Young. Right now what I need to focus on is on my list of priorities. This could possible take me the rest of my time on planet earth to attain this goal.
> 
> This is what I am currently focusing on:
> 
> Pentatonics-major, minor and a blend there of
> Blues scales
> Minor scale
> Arpeggios-major, minor
> Triads-major, minor
> 
> Techniques
> Bending
> Legato-hammer ons and pull offs
> vibrato
> string skipping
> raking
> alternate picking
> sweep picking
> hybrid picking
> 
> and......different strum patterns!
> 
> I have also had formal guitar lessons! I am at the point where I can teach myself. I know exactly what my goals are as defined above! So it's just a matter of practice and playing with the band to see my goals come to fruition!


If you get all that down modes won't be a big deal. I think you're on the right track.


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## Lola

I may still go to a teacher just to help me identify certain problems, diagnose what the causes are and how to come up with strategies for overcoming them!

I have trust issues with guitar teachers. The 3 I had were horrible and just plain greedy. 1 teacher was an amazing player and I thought I happened upon the mother lode! Not so! He would shred and play his stuff during my lesson! I was stupid and naïve but knew something was not right about this. The other one was just a bedroom rocker hack. The 3rd one just wanted to teach me songs that I myself could find off the internet.

Now that I am more savvy, I know exactly what direction I want to head in, I know what my bigger picture is but I may need some help along the way! 

I want the perfect teacher to fit my specific needs. I know if I go in a tell them my specific wants and what knowledge I possess that would be the starting point! I won't get fooled/scammed again!


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## JBFairthorne

Seriously...learn to play in YOUR style. Which normally would be a mish-mash of odds and ends from all sorts of players. Don't sell yourself short.


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## Dorian2

You could knock a few of those techniques off your list you posted as well. Especially 3 different styles of picking at this point. Pick 1 picking technique to fully focus on, and maybe throw in a couple of runs or licks incorporating the other 2. Maybe review your practice time and see where you're spending most of the time and change it up next practice. It looks like you have a lot of eggs in 1 basket there.


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## Lola

Dorian2 said:


> You could knock a few of those techniques off your list you posted as well. Especially 3 different styles of picking at this point. Pick 1 picking technique to fully focus on, and maybe throw in a couple of runs or licks incorporating the other 2. Maybe review your practice time and see where you're spending most of the time and change it up next practice. It looks like you have a lot of eggs in 1 basket there.


That is certainly a sigh of relief! Right now at this very moment I am trying to learn all my key signatures so that I can learn the sharps and flats for my foray into triad country! And I found out about inverted triads! So much to do and so little time to do it in! I have so much stuff that I want to and need to learn! I am going a little crazy with the expectations on myself. I am worried that I will never have enough time to become the player that I dream of being and expect myself to be!


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## Lola

I


Dorian2 said:


> You could knock a few of those techniques off your list you posted as well. Especially 3 different styles of picking at this point. Pick 1 picking technique to fully focus on, and maybe throw in a couple of runs or licks incorporating the other 2. Maybe review your practice time and see where you're spending most of the time and change it up next practice. It looks like you have a lot of eggs in 1 basket there.


I probably spend 80% of my time practicing the songs that our band has chosen to play. I am busy trying to write a song now! My very first original. It's a lot more work than I bargained for! Trying to syncopate the music and the lyrics together is a headache in the making! I practice legato licks which you obviously know that it incorporates the hammer on and pull of aspects of my practice. I am trying to learn my key signatures as well! I try to do the theory parts of what I am learning on my lunch or dinner break at work! When I get home it's practice time! I try to switch up practice sessions weekly! That doesn't always work though! I really wish I didn't have to work! I drive myself a little crazy at times! I don't have an off switch! lol


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## Miguelli64

amagras said:


> Probably the most important thing you can learn about the modes is their relationship with the key and it's chords. The way I learned it is simple:
> 
> Let's use the the key of C major. You have a scale (c major) and a chord (c major) that starts in the note c, also called the first degree of the c major scale. Now, the c major scale has more notes right? You can build a chord starting on any of them, if you put them in order the would be C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bm.
> 
> Knowing this, you can also build a scale for any of these chords: the modes. They are called Ionian or major, Dorian or minor, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian or dominant, Aeolian or natural minor and Locrian and they are directly related to the chords C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bm.
> 
> Once you understand their relationship with the major scale the will become part of a whole and that's the main reason many people don't need to learn the modes, this way whenever you are playing over G dominant chord you'll be using G Mixolydian scale but many musicians will say that you are simply using the C major scale. Just a different approach.
> 
> Hope this helps something


For the last chord in C Major, it is a B Diminished, rather than a Bm.


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## Lola

Done an done! I am not learning the modes and may never! The key signatures are more than enough at the current moment! I will never use them to play the way I want to anyways! I wonder if there may be a key signature game online. I find if things are a game like Fret board warrior then I learn faster. It's not boring me out of my skull and it's fun!


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## amagras

Miguelli64 said:


> For the last chord in C Major, it is a B Diminished, rather than a Bm.


That is only if you are using the 7th or 4 voice harmonies. Without 7th there is not diminished or 7 chords, just majors and minors.


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## Guest

Lola said:


> I am not learning the modes and may never!


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## Lola

I am waving the flag of frustration! I have decided to aid my playing with the help of professional lessons! I even got the hubby to agree! That in itself is a major milestone! He finally acknowledges that I am serious about playing. I am going to go to L & M and see if the teacher they wanted to place me with is still there! I plan on going every other week.

I want some constructive criticism! I am playing okay but I know I could be better!


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## Dorian2

Good going Lola. You won't be disappointed. Just remember you'll get out of them what you put in. I don't think I had to say that though.


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## bigboki

Lola said:


> I am waving the flag of frustration! I have decided to aid my playing with the help of professional lessons! I even got the hubby to agree! That in itself is a major milestone! He finally acknowledges that I am serious about playing. I am going to go to L & M and see if the teacher they wanted to place me with is still there! I plan on going every other week.
> 
> I want some constructive criticism! I am playing okay but I know I could be better!


I also like TrueFire online courses very much
https://truefire.com

if you want more details just let me know
I think it is really great resource for improvement

yours Bojan


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## Lola

Dorian2 said:


> Good going Lola. You won't be disappointed. Just remember you'll get out of them what you put in. I don't think I had to say that though.


Oh, I know that for sure! I don't have any problem though with giving 150% though when it comes to practicing, learning and playing. I am pretty disciplined! What I create in my imagination is enough to make me want to practice! It has it's frustrating moments but the rewards are many!


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## Budda

The thing about modes is, you're going to learn them accidentally. The trick is then to take what you've already learned, and simply get a better understanding of what it is and how it works.

Modes did not "take" with me when I took music in high school. When the concept finally made sense, using the fretboard, I really disliked my teacher for not allowing me to play guitar in the class.

Keep on workin' at it! I should probably practice band stuff after this post


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## Lola

That's okay if I learn them accidentally! I really don't want to focus on modes! I will eventually play them without knowing what they are! I have a way too much on my plate as it is! Maybe in the distant future when I get what's already on my plate under wraps! I am at the present a tad overwhelmed and a little frustrated at times! Hey, it's all a part of the game! I just have to suck it up and get on with my plan! Sorry, I am such a whiner!lol

I am really looking forward to some guidance from a hand's on teacher!

The pay offs seem so slow no matter if I play my fingers to the bone! I finally am starting to do clean pull offs with 3 fingers! Yeah me! I have been working and working on that for what seems like eons! It makes such a huge difference though!

........and pinch harmonics! Ya right! I can't get them consistently! There's times where I can play them and get it right and then other times are a bust!


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## Budda

Don't forget to take breaks with your practice schedule. Sure you can play 2 hours a day every single day, but you're way more likely to get frustrated faster. If you take a day or two off, and then come back to it you may notice that you're doing better than you thought.

It's also like hitting the gym and eating healthy: it doesn't show up in the first few weeks, but within a month or two people notice the difference.


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## Dorian2

Don't worry Lola. We all have things we still need to get under our belts. I'm still trying to get a firm grip on arpeggios personally, after tackling them many times over many years. I know the building theory of them, as they are just chord tones, but I have yet to practice them enough to have them ready to use at any given time. It's becoming a friggin life long process for me.

I think I'll start a new thread on that.


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## Lola

I have access to so much on the internet it's crazy! I am shutting it down and need to go to a real person! I would agree that you can learn a lot if your wanting to online! I just want a real human at my avail! I could also do skype to! Nah! 

I am sure there are some physical issues as well! Maybe the angle of my upstrokes for an example! Or when I do pinch harmonics!


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## Lola

I


Dorian2 said:


> Don't worry Lola. We all have things we still need to get under our belts. I'm still trying to get a firm grip on arpeggios personally, after tackling them many times over many years. I know the building theory of them, as they are just chord tones, but I have yet to practice them enough to have them ready to use at any given time. It's becoming a friggin life long process for me.
> 
> I think I'll start a new thread on that.


I think starting a new thread on arpeggios would be good! I am working on that too! I can't use them either unless I sit there and think about it! That works but I need to be able to implement at any given time!


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## Lola

So excited! I just talk to a potential teacher! He seems to have a reputable reputation! I told him exactly what I need and want to do! So I guess I will see! I can also go every other week which is perfect!


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## Guest

No need to shout. lol.
I'm sure it'll work out fine for you.
You're determined enough that it will.
Enjoy.


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## Lola

Sorry I didn't mean to shout!

This is shouting, I am shouting now! lol


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## kat_

Lola said:


> That's okay if I learn them accidentally! I really don't want to focus on modes! I will eventually play them without knowing what they are! I have a way too much on my plate as it is! Maybe in the distant future when I get what's already on my plate under wraps! I am at the present a tad overwhelmed and a little frustrated at times!


Sorry for the late reply but I just noticed this conversation and want to throw in my 2 cents.

How well do you know your pentatonic scales? Once you know them absolutely cold then modes will fall into place over top of them. Don't worry about modes until you're solid, and maybe even a little bored, of the pents.

Once you're absolutely solid on pentatonics you just add two notes to get the modes. Take your A minor (C major) pentatonic. It's ACDEG (or CDEGA if you're thinking about from C major.) Add a B and a F to that and you get your A aeolian (natural minor) and your C Ionian (major.) Change the B to a Bb and keep the F and you end up with A phrygian or C mixolydian. Change the F to F# and keep the B as just B and you'll have A dorian or C Lydian. So basically just take your pentatonic, add two notes, alter one of the notes, and you have your modes (except for Locrian, which can wait until your comfortable with the rest anyway.) For now focus on your pentatonics and when you notice that you're playing something that's mostly pentatonic but with extras then you can work backwards and figure out what those extras are doing there. 

If you ever need to write out the modes then think of them as C Ionian = D Dorian = E Phrygian, etc, but when you're on your guitar they're just pentatonics with extra notes thrown in for flavouring, then over time you'll get used to what sort of flavour is created by which extra notes.


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## Lola

kat_ said:


> Sorry for the late reply but I just noticed this conversation and want to throw in my 2 cents.
> 
> How well do you know your pentatonic scales? Once you know them absolutely cold then modes will fall into place over top of them. Don't worry about modes until you're solid, and maybe even a little bored, of the pents.
> 
> Once you're absolutely solid on pentatonics you just add two notes to get the modes. Take your A minor (C major) pentatonic. It's ACDEG (or CDEGA if you're thinking about from C major.) Add a B and a F to that and you get your A aeolian (natural minor) and your C Ionian (major.) Change the B to a Bb and keep the F and you end up with A phrygian or C mixolydian. Change the F to F# and keep the B as just B and you'll have A dorian or C Lydian. So basically just take your pentatonic, add two notes, alter one of the notes, and you have your modes (except for Locrian, which can wait until your comfortable with the rest anyway.) For now focus on your pentatonics and when you notice that you're playing something that's mostly pentatonic but with extras then you can work backwards and figure out what those extras are doing there.
> 
> If you ever need to write out the modes then think of them as C Ionian = D Dorian = E Phrygian, etc, but when you're on your guitar they're just pentatonics with extra notes thrown in for flavouring, then over time you'll get used to what sort of flavour is created by which extra notes.


This makes more sense to me than anything else I have read or have done research on! Very good simplistic explanation!


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## Percy

Lola said:


> Do I really need to learn modes? It just seems like too much to learn! I have tried to learn them before but I have to admit I waved the white flag! Our band is doing covers so the only time they might come in handy is when I play a blues improvisation!
> 
> What would be the easiest way to learn them? If someone has any links that they think might be useful, pls direct me!


Imo Learn the chords of the key along with the modes.....I did and it really improved my guitar playing and understanding of the fret board for Major or minor...

Imo the key of G Major is a good key to learn the chords and modes.....G-Am-Bm-C-D or D7-Em-F#dim
I=II-III--IV-VorV7--VI---VII#dim


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