# Let's talk about les pauls



## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

I've wanted a les Paul for years now and finally got enough surplus cash to bite the bullet. But man there so many bullets. Classics, customs, standards, studios and various one offs built you can't try them all. And then there are the variations in quality over the years it gets very confusing. Seeing as this is my most expensive purchase to date I want to get it right. 

I tried a classic a long time ago (98 or so) that I thought was the best thing since sliced bread but I was much younger and inexperienced. Since buying a prs a few years ago I have been loving the wide fat profile. Tried a new classic and found the neck way to thin. Standards weren't any better and the traditional was beefy but felt like it had too much shoulder to it. 

As as far as years go I tried a 2008 standard and hated it. Everything from the locking input jack and tuners to the asymmetrical profile just annoyed me. Of the 2014 lps I tried the plek treatment felt really nice and they sounded good just couldn't find the right neck. Too fat too thin I'd really like to try a 59 style profile so I can see what that feels like. Then there's the pre/post 93 talk. If someone could elaborate on this that'd be great. 

Then there was that exnihilo junior that was in the fs section here. I think he got sick of me looking at it so he pulled the ad. A bit spendy so was probably for my benifit.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

If you like big necks, start with a 1958 reissue ie r8. It has the widest, the 60 has the smallest, the 59 somewhere in between.
in terms of the pre-post 93 thing, I started a thread on that about 2 weeks ago in this forum, shouldn't be hard to find and not much has changed since then 
a really good value is the faded traditionals, which can have varying neck sizes.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

That's funny you mention that. A standard faded was what started my quest. Found it in manatoulin island for 1400 which was my budget at the time. Ended up getting sold while I was working out the logistics( didn't want to ship it or email a stranger 1400). I can afford to spend a bit more but an r8 is most likely out of my range. A 59 neck sounds like the goldy locks profile.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

If you like the '59 you're mostly looking at customs and pre-09? Studios.

Does it have to say "gibson"?


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

I think for neck size, from largest to smallest it's:
58 reissue 
59 reissue/Traditional goes around here somewhere. 
Standard
60 reissue/60s slim/Studio


I have a 58 chambered reissue. I love the neck on it.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Moosehead said:


> A 59 neck sounds like the goldy locks profile.


If you mean the often used 59 carve then many, many Studios have them. Try those for feel and then find the appropriate model which you and your budget seek.

I was really thinking by your opening statements that you might not find one with the feel that you want but I too like the wide fat PRS necks (though I never found them that wide nor fat - just found that my hand fit them) and I also really like Gibson Studios with the 59 carve.

I no longer have any PRS guitars but I still have 4 Gibsons (3 LP Studios and a faded SG with a fatty neck which is what I suspect to be also a 59 carve).


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

If your neck is slimmer then a standard its a '59. Also my oreffered neck profile on an lp. Only came on customs and studios when i was buying the first time, and studios are different now.

The fun part, if you're dead set on a gibson lp, is trying a lot of them.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

Budda said:


> If your neck is slimmer then a standard its a '59.


Are you sure? I always though the standards were slimmer than the 59(but to be fair I have not played a 59 in a while) and that the newer studios all have 60s slimmies


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

I have found standards to be slim. I thought 59 was in between 50s fatness and 60s slim. And to top it off they vary from year to year. I also thought customs were on the thinner side? Not sure about this though. 

Not dead set on Gibson especially if it saves me a few bucks but I would like a nice top. Doesn't have to be super flame but pleasing to the eye. And I already have 2 black guitars. 

I do need to try more lps but it becomes hard when stores have new models and the used market is more my budget which also complicates trying them all. There is a trad I'm looking at in Hollands landing I a nice wine red, a few classics on her in Kingston and Sherbrooke and a early 90s studio in brantford.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Go to the guitar shop in Mississauga and try some singlecuts.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I am envious of your PRS. I really like the guitars but even their fat wide neck is too small for me.

If it must be an LP, and you like a bigger neck, Rondo offers a wider neck on their Agiles and you can also do custom orders with them now which would get you a very nice LP for under $1000.00.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I love my Les Paul. It's a warm, stable, and inspiring instrument and is the one I always dreamed about having over the years (well as close as I'm going to get).

It's a 2013 R7. The neck is about as big as I've ever had. It's easy to adjust to that and the guitar is a breeze play.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

There was a trad in wine red that I tried at the Burlington l& m that played like butter but had a bigger neck ( than I'm used to). Good to know that you got used to it quickly. Now that I think of it it took me a little while to get used to my prs.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I also have to suggest a used heritage - the original gibson guys, and even the new price isnt horrendous. It will be the most authentic without getting a vintage instrument.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Yes I've been on the lookout for heritage lps. As far as non Gibson brands it's tops on the list followed by Orville, burny and tokai. Probably in that order of preference. 

Anyone carry heritage in canada?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Moosehead said:


> Yes I've been on the lookout for heritage lps. As far as non Gibson brands it's tops on the list followed by Orville, burny and tokai. Probably in that order of preference.
> 
> Anyone carry heritage in canada?


A few do. http://www.heritageguitar.com/dealerlocator.html


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## TubeStack (Jul 16, 2009)

Traditionals can be amazing LPs. My #1 is a 2011 Trad Gold Top. 

I tried quite a few LPs before buying it, mostly other Traditionals and one used Historic, but this one was definitely special. Try as many as you can, they're all different.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

I've owned many Custom Shop LP's and a few trad. and standards. Most of the time it boils down to the pickups - if you can set up the guitar with good pups (custom buckers, SD, many boutique brands, etc), that is half the battle. Depending on your music style, there are a lot of choices and a lot of reading to do. I've found that since 2009, the Gibson CS guitars are really nice and consistent. I've owned many from years prior to 2009 and they have been excellent as well but the tweaks made by Gibson from 2009 and on (especially the pickups) are quite good. I currently have a 2014 Collector's Choice Montrose LP and absolutely love this guitar - the neck carve, the pups, vibe...everything. It's currently my favorite guitar.

If you are going boutique, the Knaggs Kenai Tier 3 is a good buy especially used. I recently sold mine and the buyer told me he's taking it to the grave! McInturff makes a really good take on the LP as well - I have a Carolina Pro that is really nice. There are many others and it will boil down to style and personal preference.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

I agree with Tubestack, Traditionals can be amazing guitars. I've got a 2012 Faded Honeyburst L&M Traditional and a 2013 in Chicago Blue. Both are incredible guitars although a little heavier that the Standards and Customs I've played. I really believe that Traditionals are the best bang for the buck when it comes to Les Pauls. I have a Studio as well, its a nice playing guitar but it doesn't have the bells and whistles the Trads, Standards and Customs have. My advice to you is play as many as you can. Even two of the same model don't really sound the same. Good luck.


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## Beach Bob (Sep 12, 2009)

Watch all the for sale ads... people change pickups ALL the time... so, don't worry about those. You've already hit the nail on the head for what you want... it's the neck that can't be easily changed.

Between all the LP models/neck profile combinations, find the neck that works for you. The first couple of dozen LPs I touched, I hated... thick neck, sticky finish...ugh. Finally found a 60s neck that wasn't sticky...perfect FOR ME.... 

Find the one that feels right and recognize that the sound itself can be changed; it's the user interface that matters....


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Moosehead said:


> I have found standards to be slim. I thought 59 was in between 50s fatness and 60s slim. And to top it off they vary from year to year. I also thought customs were on the thinner side? Not sure about this though.
> 
> Not dead set on Gibson especially if it saves me a few bucks but I would like a nice top. Doesn't have to be super flame but pleasing to the eye. And I already have 2 black guitars.
> 
> I do need to try more lps but it becomes hard when stores have new models and the used market is more my budget which also complicates trying them all. There is a trad I'm looking at in Hollands landing I a nice wine red, a few classics on her in Kingston and Sherbrooke and a early 90s studio in brantford.


im in Holland landing, its a pretty small town, I don't mind checking it out for you if you get it to a shortlist, and let me know in some detail what you are looking for in it.
Have you considered an SG? pretty wide necks on a lot of them.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

Get a Godin Icon. I've been gassing for one of those or a Core.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Agree with Alex's comments about the last 5 years of Custom Shop guitars being consistently excellent (the earlier ones can be excellent as well, you just may have to look a little longer for one that speaks to you). If your budget permits it, try to find a used Custom Shop guitar, Goldtops & plain top R8s can often be found for around $2500. IME the long neck tenon helps resonance & chambered LPs seem to be seriously lacking in the cajones dept.

Don't sweat the pickups, those can be changed. Make sure that you like the neck & play the guitar unplugged. Gibson's quality control is all across the board, even more so with the USA models, but if you find a lively, resonant guitar then you have a good foundation for your tone. 

Although there can be a lot of variation, FWIW here's what I've encountered over the years in order from slimmest to fattest: 1960 Classic, Standard with 60s profile, Standard with 50s profile, recent R9, older R9, R8/7/6/4. Customs are all over the map & Studios tend to have a 50s profile. The USA version of a 50s profile is a lot smaller than any Custom Shop guitar, R0s excepted.

Standard Fadeds can be good value for the money, however I would seek out one of the earlier ones (IIRC they were released in '04 or '05) as they were essentially Standards minus the glossy finish & only had a small amount of weight relief (aka swiss cheese). A few years into the existence of that model, Gibson slashed the price & cut a bunch of corners on those. The tops weren't as nice (I have an '05 that is ridiculously flamey) & the body was "chambered" which means that way more mahogany removed vs. "traditional weight relief" (this always makes me laugh because there's nothing traditional about weight relief in a Les Paul). The '08 that you didn't like was chambered. I also took an '08 on a trade & couldn't get rid of it fast enough, it had absolutely none of that "oomph" one wants from a Lester.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

Roryfan said:


> IME the long neck tenon helps resonance & chambered LPs seem to be seriously lacking in the cajones dept.


That's what I like about Traditionals, they aren't chambered. The only downside is they are heavier then most other Les Pauls.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

TA462 said:


> That's what I like about Traditionals, they aren't chambered. The only downside is they are heavier then most other Les Pauls.


I have a theory that the best mahogany is kept for the Custom Shop. And then within the Custom Shop there's a certain amount of triage based on price point. Have you ever noticed that it's rare to find an R9, Collector's Choice or other highest end LP that weighs over 9 lbs. & it's equally rare to find an R4/6/7/8 that's under 9 lbs.?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Cups said:


> Get a Godin Icon. I've been gassing for one of those or a Core.


That would be a great choice too. They now have them in P90, humbucker, or SD P-rails.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Roryfan said:


> I have a theory that the best mahogany is kept for the Custom Shop. And then within the Custom Shop there's a certain amount of triage based on price point. Have you ever noticed that it's rare to find an R9, Collector's Choice or other highest end LP that weighs over 9 lbs. & it's equally rare to find an R4/6/7/8 that's under 9 lbs.?


that's most definitely true.
Ive seen it a hundred times, but of course cant find it now, but someone posted a pic of a sign in the Gibson factory workshop that posts the guidelines for the max weights for each of the reissues for the workers to refer to.

edit: here you go.









mucho great info here:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson-les-pauls/50210-gibson-les-paul-101-a.html


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

Not a Gibson, but pretty nice...

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1030400803


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## edward (Jan 27, 2009)

Rick31797 said:


> Not a Gibson, but pretty nice...
> 
> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1030400803


That's a nice looking guitar. Not familiar with these at all - are they really worth that kind of price?


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

I have much reverence for Yamaha but I think that price is ridiculous. The market, however, may have something else to say.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

The last one like this on Ebay sold for 1700.00 usd...it was a trans-red finish on it, so this one is a bit high.., but you don't see customs come up for-sale that often..


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

My 2013 R7 is 9.6 lbs

That kind of weight seems natural for a Les Paul. It balances so well I don't mind it at all.




Diablo said:


> that's most definitely true.
> Ive seen it a hundred times, but of course cant find it now, but someone posted a pic of a sign in the Gibson factory workshop that posts the guidelines for the max weights for each of the reissues for the workers to refer to.
> 
> edit: here you go.
> ...


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Rick31797 said:


> The last one like this on Ebay sold for 1700.00 usd...it was a trans-red finish on it, so this one is a bit high.., but you don't see customs come up for-sale that often..


Ya, it's just a bit of a limited market that would pay that much for a Yamaha.


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

smorgdonkey said:


> I have much reverence for Yamaha but I think that price is ridiculous. The market, however, may have something else to say.


good thing you don't know much about guitars, and leave these masterpieces of guitars to us.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

TDeneka said:


> good thing you don't know much about guitars, and leave these masterpieces of guitars to us.


I don't think he was bashing yamahas at all. quality doesn't necessrily equate to a big price tag though.
so, you gonna buy that one?


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

There are some collectors out there that like to acquire quality guitars that are harder to find...


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

You might also want to take a look at the Ibanez Artist series. These are truly great guitars.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I understand tha there are lots of makers who have made their versions of the mahogany backed, maple capped, set neck, dual humbucker design that Gibson gave us.

I've owned and would happily own again some of those.

I wanted to have one real keeper in that category and in order to get the specs I wanted In a Gibson I had to go custom shop.

I don't regret buying it for a second. 

You'd have to play it to understand.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I own a few Gibsons, a couple of LP Specials and an Explorer.

For whatever reason, all of the LP type, carved tops, I have are MIJ.
Two Epiphone Standards, a Burny Custom, Tokai Love Rock and a Greco EG900.
I didn't intend on setting out that way, it just happened.

I've had an affinity towards Japanese guitars for years though, so not surprising.

I probably have around five grand tied up in those LPs.
Would I drop five grand on one guitar, more than likely not.
Would I buy several over a period of years, apparently so.

There are many MIJ makers out there, worth a look.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

TDeneka said:


> good thing you don't know much about guitars, and leave these masterpieces of guitars to us.


Got literacy?


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

Roryfan said:


> I have a theory that the best mahogany is kept for the Custom Shop. And then within the Custom Shop there's a certain amount of triage based on price point. Have you ever noticed that it's rare to find an R9, Collector's Choice or other highest end LP that weighs over 9 lbs. & it's equally rare to find an R4/6/7/8 that's under 9 lbs.?


I've heard that too.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Thanks for bringing this back on track here TA462.

Guys I appreciate all the responses but let's try to keep this primarily Gibson focused. There is some solid info here on LP's, thanks for that, let's not clutter it up.



Diablo said:


> im in Holland landing, its a pretty small town, I don't mind checking it out for you if you get it to a shortlist, and let me know in some detail what you are looking for in it.
> Have you considered an SG? pretty wide necks on a lot of them.


Thanks for the offer. I might just take you up on that. 

And to you guys talking custom shop, you're the devil in disguise. Caught myself actually contemplating a bourbon burst R9 Tundra music had posted on kijiji(no interest/no payments for a year yada yada). A bit more $$$ than I had in mind. and it doesn't have heated seats... no deal


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Gotta have heated seats man.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Moosehead said:


> Thanks for bringing this back on track here TA462.
> 
> Guys I appreciate all the responses but let's try to keep this primarily Gibson focused. There is some solid info here on LP's, thanks for that, let's not clutter it up.
> 
> ...


Is it that 1996 Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul 1959 Historic R9 for $4000+?
I wonder how much it would be to do the tour of the factory, choose a Lester of your choice?
Food for thought for my birthday!
(Not my guitar BTW) just pretty.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## pat6969 (Feb 4, 2013)

Other guitarist in my band bought an LP Classic, think he paid around $2200. Goes out of tune every time he goes to drop D, LOL, awesome vintage tuners!! Never could see the fascination, I tried a Trad and a couple standards, never found one that was worth the price, but that's just my opinion. I suppose if you spend 5K you can expect something decent in the Gibson world, I find it ridiculous.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Moosehead said:


> I have found standards to be slim. I thought 59 was in between 50s fatness and 60s slim. And to top it off they vary from year to year. I also thought customs were on the thinner side? Not sure about this though.
> 
> Not dead set on Gibson especially if it saves me a few bucks but I would like a nice top. Doesn't have to be super flame but pleasing to the eye. And I already have 2 black guitars.
> 
> I do need to try more lps but it becomes hard when stores have new models and the used market is more my budget which also complicates trying them all. There is a trad I'm looking at in Hollands landing I a nice wine red, *a few classics on her in Kingston and Sherbrooke *and a early 90s studio in brantford.


The one in Kingston (mine) sold and I owned the one in Sherbrooke. Both superb LPs IMO but, regardless, you can forget about Classics altogether if you need meat in the neck. They just don't have it so consider other models...


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

I agree the pricing on the CS guitars is waaay too much. I am sure i could get a luthier built LP for much less than 5k. 
Or a new (used) car. 

I was trying to keep things under 2k and get the best used gibby i can find. Throwing an extra couple hundred in there for a gold top r7 (if I find one) is not out of the question and I think what was pointed out earlier was the quality of those lower priced CS guitars is very good. 

As far as used CS guitars that I really want but can't afford I really like this one.

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1036706415

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StevieMac said:


> The one in Kingston (mine) sold and I owned the one in Sherbrooke. Both superb LPs IMO but, regardless, you can forget about Classics altogether if you need meat in the neck. They just don't have it so consider other models...


Ya I liked both guitars but figured the necks are too slim for my liking.
Both gone now anyway.


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

While I still buy new Les Pauls depending on their uniqueness (at least to me), I've decided that my big money is going into vintage LPs. For less than $4k I can get into early to late 70's Les Pauls that to me are superior than standard line Gibsons these days let alone bleeding out for a Custom Shop one. T-Top and Shaw pickups from this era have "that" sound that I love, and being 40yr old wood...the guitar has settled and aged, and the older it gets the more it's value appreciates....kind of a win-win situation.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

These guys usually have some wiggle room if you have cash.

http://www.theguitarshop.ca/used-1987-gibson-les-paul-standard/


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

You should've stated that you're only interested in Gibsons, maybe in the thread title, which it isn't.

You even mentioned a different builder in your OP.

Sorry to clutter your thread.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

sulphur said:


> You should've stated that you're only interested in Gibsons, maybe in the thread title, which it isn't.
> 
> You even mentioned a different builder in your OP.
> 
> Sorry to clutter your thread.


Being specific if you want specific is always a good idea.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

first I have to admit that this thread is very informative...
I have a general LP question...

Its about neck thickness so here it is...
Do all LPs of the same year and model come with the same size neck ?
The oppisite would be " does a LP traditional of (whatever year) come with different options on neck size ?

thanks

G.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

sulphur said:


> You should've stated that you're only interested in Gibsons, maybe in the thread title, which it isn't.
> 
> You even mentioned a different builder in your OP.
> 
> Sorry to clutter your thread.


Well wtf why don't we just throw chibsons, epis, and every other single cut maple capped dual Hb guitar into the conversation.

Getting a thread off a derail must've touched a nerve with you, and I wasn't even referring to your post.

I actually said I was open to some non Gibson brands and then yes when it turned into a Yamaha thread I said let's keep it to "primarily Gibson" as there is much good information referring to the various production models of the Les paul.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

GTmaker said:


> first I have to admit that this thread is very informative...
> I have a general LP question...
> 
> Its about neck thickness so here it is...
> ...


The Traditionals I've owned over the years have all had a 50's style neck. Not huge but nice and thick. I've owned a 2008, a 2010 and now own a 2012 and a 2013. My Studio also has a 50's style neck. I have played Studio's that have came with a 60's style neck, a couple friends own them so I know you can get that model in different neck sizes. The years are all different so not sure if it was an option or they just changed up the size every few years. Traditionals I'm 99% sure all came with the 50's style. The other models I don't know anything about.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Studios had 60's necks? Huh.

When I tried a bunch of 2013 lps (lpj right to custom) the traditional was the only one i totally agreed with.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

TA462 said:


> The Traditionals I've owned over the years have all had a 50's style neck. Not huge but nice and thick. I've owned a 2008, a 2010 and now own a 2012 and a 2013. My Studio also has a 50's style neck. I have played Studio's that have came with a 60's style neck, a couple friends own them so I know you can get that model in different neck sizes. The years are all different so not sure if it was an option or they just changed up the size every few years. Traditionals I'm 99% sure all came with the 50's style. The other models I don't know anything about.


All of the Studios that I have had were '50s neck as well except for a 1998 model with dot inlays which had a smaller neck.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

Budda said:


> Studios had 60's necks? Huh.


I thought they all had the 50's style until I actually had one in my hands. I'll find out if they were special runs or not.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

I texted them both and got a reply from one of them. They are both Studio's for sure but one is a Limited Edition in Satin Black and the other is a Studio Deluxe model. I googled Studio's and found out there is a bunch of different models of them with different necks.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Moosehead said:


> Well wtf why don't we just throw chibsons, _*epis*_, and every other single cut maple capped dual Hb guitar into the conversation.
> 
> Getting a thread off a derail must've touched a nerve with you, and I wasn't even referring to your post.
> 
> I actually said I was open to some non Gibson brands and then yes when it turned into a Yamaha thread I said let's keep it to "primarily Gibson" as there is much good information referring to the various production models of the Les paul.


Well technically, Epiphone is the only other licensed "Les Paul" on the market by name and a Gibson product. If you were open to a slim neck, I'd recommend an Elite/Elitist. Best LP value for the money when it comes to construction materials. There's also Orville too, not to mention the other "non-licenced" MIJ's (Bacchus, Navigator, Burny, Tokai, Edwards, FGN, etc, etc...)


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Moosehead said:


> Well wtf why don't we just throw chibsons, epis, and every other single cut maple capped dual Hb guitar into the conversation.
> 
> Getting a thread off a derail must've touched a nerve with you, and I wasn't even referring to your post.
> 
> I actually said I was open to some non Gibson brands and then yes when it turned into a Yamaha thread I said let's keep it to "primarily Gibson" as there is much good information referring to the various production models of the Les paul.


Such a reply will not earn you any fans to help you with your research. Sulphur is one of the most helpful on the forum and has lots of knowledge.

Personally I think it's to your advantage to have other manufacturers mentioned. You may find a better guitar or even a better guitar for less money than you budgeted for. After all, if you are not interested in some of the posts, it is not that difficult to ignore them.


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## kelspaul (Dec 19, 2014)

buying a les paul is quite the hard decision. They cost a fair bit of money and there are always the people who say why would you spend so much money and I'm sure many other things. Most guitars I have owned have had the fat necks but this les paul had the 60s neck.at first it felt a little strange to play but now I'm used to it and I can still easily pick up my other guitars with the fatter necks and still play them comfortably. When I decided on this les paul was because of the finish and top.it is a koa top which I love the look of. Pretty much all les Pauls I've played sound great so for me part of spending the money became how much I also liked the look of the guitar. Good luck on finding your les paul because it is out there. Cheers!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Smorg isnt an 2000-2008 studio the '59 carve?

Someone is selling a Northern LP set neck in white with maple board black maple leaf inlays for $400


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## Beach Bob (Sep 12, 2009)

To light a new fire....

Every time I see a picture of a Les Paul with a pickguard, my heart breaks a little....


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Neat, link?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Scotty said:


> Neat, link?


Look for "musicians swap meet and garage sale" on Facebook

Beach bob that has nothing to do with helping the OP


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Budda said:


> Smorg isnt an 2000-2008 studio the '59 carve?


That is true to my knowledge. Currently I have a 2006, 2004 and a 1995 which all feel the same. As for '59 and '50s, I just see people using those 2 interchangeably and I am unaware of any actual distinction between the two.

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Beach Bob said:


> To light a new fire....
> 
> Every time I see a picture of a Les Paul with a pickguard, my heart breaks a little....


...and I feel like they look incomplete without them (for the most part).


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

smorgdonkey said:


> That is true to my knowledge. Currently I have a 2006, 2004 and a 1995 which all feel the same. As for '59 and '50s, I just see people using those 2 interchangeably and I am unaware of any actual distinction between the two.


But there IS a difference. The 50's carve that they put on some of the lower end Lp's (50's tribute, LPJ ect.) and the 50's carve on a traditional is not the same. And is further muddled by the Historics of the 50's which seem to have some variation as well. I see some standards or standard faded advertised with a 59 profile, I'll be on the lookout for these when I get to guitar shopping in Oakville/mississauga. The last studio I played was a buddies 2012, I liked it and never found the neck too thin, certainly wasn't as big as the trads maybe that was the 59? I guess untill I play an R9 I won't know what a 59 carve is actually like. 


Got a couple stores on the radar that I've never visited before (mojo, the guitar shop) I think there was 1 more as well. If anyone has a favorite shop that they'd like to recommend I'm all ears.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Could be true. The spec sheet for the Studio which has been offered for ages (ebony, wine red, alpine white) has been '59 carve.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

If you can go out to the L&M Bloor West store in T.O. during a week day, if you have the time, do that. The only reason I am suggesting this, is that there is a a whole bunch of LPs hanging on the wall. Then ask what they have hiding in the back.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

A 2012 studio has asymmetrical profile i believe. And the R9 neck is a true boat compared to the '59 of an LPC.


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## TubeStack (Jul 16, 2009)

kelspaul said:


>


Wow, that is a really cool LP, love it. What are the pickups?


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## kelspaul (Dec 19, 2014)

The pick ups are what came in the guitar and they are burstbucker pro 1and2 neck position tone control has push and pull pot for reverse-phase tones the bridge tone control bypasses the volume and tone controls for a hotter sound and it is split coil capable.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Budda said:


> A 2012 studio has asymmetrical profile i believe. And the R9 neck is a true boat compared to the '59 of an LPC.


And the 2015 is another bag of tricks altogether. Over the past few years, their consistency with their line has really deviated.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

I would buy a Heritage all day long, before a Gibson. especially if you are looking used: Heritage are ridiculously undervalued IMO

for $1500 or so you can get a custom shop quality instrument on kijiji

I understand the allure of a Gibson headstock though, they are pretty iconic

had a '94 studio that was absolutely killer. if you can live without binding & want to save $1,000 you could go that route

also had a nice R7 black beauty too, great gtr but someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse

if I were to buy another Gibson it would probably be an R7 goltop. but I'd ditch the G pickups and get JS Moore/Throbak/Wolfetone's in there


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

I'm going to mojo music in a few days, they are a heritage dealer. Also waiting to hear back from a guy about a trade for his 93 studio(for my '81 fender lead 2). Kind of excited at the prospect of getting a LP without any $$ leaving my pocket.
On the lookout for a R7 but nothing so far. 

Also heard back from a guy about his traditional. 2011 trads, anything of note, good or bad?


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## M_Schmitt (Jan 4, 2015)

Funny i have 3 les pauls and want a prs! I love the traditional model i have 2 of those and one tribute. Trans white and it is missing the les paul script from the neck bit i had it verified with gibson including pics so i know its the deal. Better be it has sustain out the wazzoo and the coil tapping is a dream come true for me.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

M_Schmitt said:


> Funny i have 3 les pauls and_* want a prs!*_ I love the traditional model i have 2 of those and one tribute. Trans white and it is missing the les paul script from the neck bit i had it verified with gibson including pics so i know its the deal. Better be it has sustain out the wazzoo and the coil tapping is a dream come true for me.


There is a PRS SE at the Guitar Centre in Niagara Fall, NY for $399.00. (This was on Friday, Jan. 2nd) The original price was $800.00. I think GC stopped carrying PRS and so they are blowing stock models out.


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## M_Schmitt (Jan 4, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> There is a PRS SE at the Guitar Centre in Niagara Fall, NY for $399.00. (This was on Friday, Jan. 2nd) The original price was $800.00. I think GC stopped carrying PRS and so they are blowing stock models out.


Thanks for info that is so tempting. Falls are about 3 hours away. Xmas hits the wallet hard though not sure if i could scrape even that reasonable amount up!


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

bolero said:


> I would buy a Heritage all day long, before a Gibson. especially if you are looking used: Heritage are ridiculously undervalued IMO
> 
> for $1500 or so you can get a custom shop quality instrument on kijiji
> 
> I understand the allure of a Gibson headstock though, they are pretty iconic


I would not say undervalued but not the retarded money that Gibson commands for no other reason than cashing in on those who must have that iconic headstock. I think Heritage's retail value is what it should be and what Gibson's should be also. If Heritage can make profit at those prices, what is Gibson's annual profit?? I'd sure like to know


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

A Gibson guitar, like any other product in our world is worth exactlhy what the buyers are willing to pay, no more, no less.

Funny how when money is not an obstacle, many players who know guitars at least as well or better than I do, choose the real article.

It's not always about the name on the peg head.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Milkman said:


> A Gibson guitar, like any other product in our world is worth exactlhy what the buyers are willing to pay, no more, no less.
> 
> Funny how when money is not an obstacle, many players who know guitars at least as well or better than I do, choose the real article.
> 
> It's not always about the name on the peg head.


I will beg to differ without trying to start a G bashing argument, that many DO buy for the name. (Regardless of product, Ie; Ford vs Gm etc) 

I agree that the value is what orhers are willing to pay, but I do feel there are much better values out there than Gibson. We all know Gibson has been frought with quality issues for decades. Yes they make fine products, some times. While the company may not know how to find product consistency, they sure understand marketing


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Scotty said:


> I will beg to differ without trying to start a G bashing argument, that many DO buy for the name. (Regardless of product, Ie; Ford vs Gm etc)
> 
> I agree that the value is what orhers are willing to pay, but I do feel there are much better values out there than Gibson. We all know Gibson has been frought with quality issues for decades. Yes they make fine products, some times. While the company may not know how to find product consistency, they sure understand marketing


Yes, some people do buy for the name. That doesn't mean they aren't getting a great instrument.

At the end of the day, it's pretty hard to ignore or deny how many legendary players have chosen a real Les Paul as their go to guitar for recording and stage.

And while other companies have benefited from Gibson's developments and evolutions of the solid body guitar, it was Gibson that came up with many of the characteristics that make electric guitars what they are today.

Again, when you can afford whatever you want, it's surprising how many go for the real Gibson


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Scotty said:


> I will beg to differ without trying to start a G bashing argument, that many DO buy for the name. (Regardless of product, Ie; Ford vs Gm etc)
> 
> I agree that the value is what orhers are willing to pay, but I do feel there are much better values out there than Gibson. We all know Gibson has been frought with quality issues for decades. Yes they make fine products, some times. While the company may not know how to find product consistency, they sure understand marketing


Very well put. 

The same can be said for Fender and PRS and a number of others. Up to date manufacturing methods turn out fine guitars; good marketing keeps the companies viable.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

I bought the real deal in 1982, a LP Custom, i was not a very good judge of a quality guitar, i am now, and its as good as it gets, with the exception of being very heavy..
The second gibson i bought was a 60s tribute, i ordered it and was very disappointed on the quality of workmanship..sharp fret ends , bridge insert was sticking up about 1/8 from the top., they put the wrong knobs and back covers on it., the 2 way toggle which was shorting out...

This made me realise i would never buy a Gibson without trying one out first...


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## M_Schmitt (Jan 4, 2015)

Gibson requires hands on to make the buy. And play it like you intend to dont be dainty. Bend those string pinch harmonics try all frets. The biggest issue i have is the nut. G and b strings tend to slide and get stuck in the nut knockimg you out of tune fast. Clean strings nut lube and what ive done which is have a real bone nut put in 2 of mine which is the only permanent solution it seems.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

Scotty said:


> I will beg to differ without trying to start a G bashing argument, that many DO buy for the name. (Regardless of product, Ie; Ford vs Gm etc)
> 
> I agree that the value is what orhers are willing to pay, but I do feel there are much better values out there than Gibson. We all know Gibson has been frought with quality issues for decades. Yes they make fine products, some times. While the company may not know how to find product consistency, they sure understand marketing


I own 3 Les Pauls and I agree with you, there are better values out there than Gibson. The thing is that they aren't Gibson. I also agree that Gibson has had quality issues but so does every other guitar manufacturer. Nobody produces 100% perfect guitars every time. It's funny that the people that mostly talk about Gibson quality issues are the people that buy site on seen or the people that don't even buy them at all, they just jump on the bandwagon. I've bought 5 in my lifetime, all new with no quality issues. Gibson makes fine instruments. Period. If you buy a new guitar and don't try it out before you buy it then who's faults that? I've heard Fender had made a few dud's in their day too but you don't hear about it like you do with Gibson. Why is that? For most young guitar players Gibson Les Paul's are just to expensive for them. These are mostly the same people that bash them without having any real world experience with them. For the record I bought my very first Gibson Les Paul because of the name. I thought how cool is it that I own a REAL Les Paul. The other 4 I bought because they truly are great instruments.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

regarding the last few posts:

-I had a 1982 Deluxe and it was super heavy too!

-I have bought or traded for about 10 or a dozen or so. All were great. I never showed up to see one and found a flaw big enough to matter. I did find one small finish flaw on the lower edge of the back of the first one I ever bought a week or two later.

-The nut material is crap. I have no idea why they don't change it. I normally get a bone nut installed on Gibsons too.

-Fret ends are not a quality issue. Frets are metal installed in wood at manufacturing humidity levels. Wood shrinks when it dries and metal doesn't so if a guitar ends up being in conditions drier than manufacturing environment, the fret ends will protrude as the neck shrinks. Any dealer will handle sharp fret ends for free as part of the free set up after the sale. If they won't/don't, then find another dealer. Gibson can't dry every guitar and file the fret ends, then rehumidify them for market. Could they install frets that are pre-cut a couple mm shorter? Good question but one that I don't know the answer to as I have never installed frets. It does seem like it shouldn't be a huge issue to overcome but there may be parameters which I am unaware of.

-Finally, and nobody mentioned this yet but I figure it should be included since it normally comes up: the headstock design is a weakness. Why they don't go with a volute is beyond me but perhaps customers freak out when they do. What I do know is if you can't take care of the guitar, if you can't NOT knock it off it's stand, then buy a different guitar. Every car I know of crunches up if you run into something like a brick wall or another car but people still buy them. I never hear people say "until they put non-dentable fenders on that brand-X car, I refuse to buy one". 

That about covers it.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Scotty said:


> *I will beg to differ without trying to start a G bashing argument, that many DO buy for the name. (Regardless of product, Ie; Ford vs Gm etc) *
> 
> I agree that the value is what orhers are willing to pay, but I do feel there are much better values out there than Gibson. We all know Gibson has been frought with quality issues for decades. Yes they make fine products, some times. While the company may not know how to find product consistency, they sure understand marketing


re: bolded, I think that's fair. Im probably one of them. But its not because I think "Gibson" is a nice sounding name, or what not, its that part of what comes with "the name", is pretty good resale value due to brand recognition as far musical instruments go.
ive been down the path of buying a "superior" instrument with little brand recognition for $2000 and finding years later that the market wont pay more than $500. for it (Lado), whereas a similar value Gibson or Fender (why do they always get left out of this argument?) would have been worth about the same as what was paid for it. never again. the right side of my brain wont allow it, even if the left side begs it. its too much of a commitment. I don't buy instruments as an investment. But I also don't buy them expecting to see their value dwindle to nothingness either.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

Diablo, great point about resale value. I don't ever plan on selling the 3 I own but if I ever did it would be very easy to sell my Studio and my 2 Traditionals for close to or if not what I paid for them. And they would sell very fast.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

The right idea is to buy a good brand name quality guitar, buy it used,enjoy it for many years and when its time to sell, you find out, either your getting your money back, or you make a bit.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

I don't normally buy used guitars. Not because I'm a snob or anything it's just that I want to be the first to play it, scratch it, put a dent in it, spill beer on it etc.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Diablo said:


> re: bolded, I think that's fair. Im probably one of them. But its not because I think "Gibson" is a nice sounding name, or what not, its that part of what comes with "the name", is pretty good resale value due to brand recognition as far musical instruments go.
> ive been down the path of buying a "superior" instrument with little brand recognition for $2000 and finding years later that the market wont pay more than $500. for it (Lado), whereas a similar value Gibson or Fender (why do they always get left out of this argument?) would have been worth about the same as what was paid for it. never again. the right side of my brain wont allow it, even if the left side begs it. its too much of a commitment. I don't buy instruments as an investment. But I also don't buy them expecting to see their value dwindle to nothingness either.


I think that's about where I'm at. Get the real deal. I'm trying to not get hung up on getting " the one for me" and get the best one I can find (within my budget). That wou most likely be a trad. if I find a historic down the road that resonates better with me I can sell or trade the first one without worry.

With the exception of a r8 with a bad neck break(and pro repair) for 1800 usd the next considerable historic was a r7 for 2500. Still more than I was looking to spend and then there is the sight unseen factor. I just can't do it without playing it. If I was to do it I'd feel better going with a historic. There is a bourbon burst trad that caught my eye but the same deal, just can't pull the trigger without playing the damn thing. 

Also so just opened up my search options (joined tgp and searching Canada wide on kijiji) which was stupid. More guitars I have to sift through and lots of beauties I'm too chicken shit to pull the trigger on.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Moosehead said:


> I think that's about where I'm at. Get the real deal. I'm trying to not get hung up on getting " the one for me" and get the best one I can find (within my budget). That wou most likely be a trad. if I find a historic down the road that resonates better with me I can sell or trade the first one without worry.
> 
> With the exception of a r8 with a bad neck break(and pro repair) for 1800 usd the next considerable historic was a r7 for 2500. Still more than I was looking to spend and then there is the sight unseen factor. I just can't do it without playing it. If I was to do it I'd feel better going with a historic. There is a bourbon burst trad that caught my eye but the same deal, just can't pull the trigger without playing the damn thing.
> 
> Also so just opened up my search options (joined tgp and searching Canada wide on kijiji) which was stupid. More guitars I have to sift through and lots of beauties I'm too chicken shit to pull the trigger on.


When I decided to buy my Les Paul (this time), I had my local shop bring in three examples (all 2013 R7s). All were excellent. Really I made my choice based on the colour of the back.

Any time I've made a purchase and wondered if I should have popped for the next level up, I've regretted not doing so.

I have basically zero buyers remorse with this guitar.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

So I just got around to installing my straplocks after catching my falling guitar. I've had teh strap give way about 5 or 6 times now and it bewilders me why Gibson doesnt put a different strap button on their LPs.:sAng_scream:

My PRS which probably wieghs at least 2 pounds less and doesnt have the same propensity for falling off has a descent strap button. I just comapred it to the washer on my schaller strap locks and the PRS button is about the size of a nickel, a bit smaller than the schaller washer (washer is about the size of a quarter) but still never had a fear of my prs strap falling off. 

For the price you pay for a Gibson they really should have a decent strap button if not a complimentary set of straplocks for forking over a months pay (or more) for one of their guitars. Now I bought mine used and had a set of strap locks I never installed (PRS didn't need them) so it's my own procrastinating that has kept me from installing them the minute I got home with it. This is a known issue with LP's. 

What did they do in the 50's/60's/70's? Did players just get used to catching their guitar mid song? 
Im getting pretty good at it myself and i've only had this guitar about 2 weeks.

End rant.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

there is a clip of Clapton in "the last waltz" where his strap falls off, mid-solo


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

I've seen that vid before but never noticed that. Good excuse to watch it again.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

My favourite part of the Last Waltz is Dr John playing Such a Night. 

Awesome.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

bolero said:


> there is a clip of Clapton in "the last waltz" where his strap falls off, mid-solo


funny you mentioned the strap falling..
Besides being a good video, check out what happens around the 3:35 mark.
G.

[video=youtube;lVbyWunzpzU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVbyWunzpzU[/video]


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

As this thread shows again, Gibson is both the most-loved and the most-reviled guitar maker around. Maybe Henry J. is content to say, "At least they're talking about us!"

My collection ebbs and flows, but when at low ebb it always includes Gibson Les Pauls when most or all other electric brands have left. The Fenders and PRSs and Gretschs excite for a while, but the LPs keep their hold.

I love 'em because nothing else sounds to me like *it*, the sound that fits with the music I like. Each hears this differently - vive la difference - but to me they are the top and have been worth the cost.

"Have been." At the risk of returning this thread to the OP's question, and/or starting another argument about Gibson's 2014 and 2015 changes, he should look back for his Les Paul and aim as high as he possibly can.

Gibson has actually boasted (incredibly!) that their recent non-Custom-Shop offerings are "not like your daddy's guitar", and they're certainly not, yet at the same time their pricing has soared to surpass even this fanboy's pain threshold. For only a few hundred more than the cost of a new 2015 Traditional the OP could score a used pre-2014 R8 or Custom and have a guitar that may play better and will certainly hold its value better. 2012 model-year guitars offer especially good value - the split-board frenzy is nonsense and many of these guitars play and sound well above their cost.

With our dollar hitting long-unseen lows today, the cost of new Gibson guitars in Canada will go up even more and the once-easy solution of better selection and better value buying in the U.S. has become unattractive. So for great-playing, value-holding (-increasing?) guitars that could very likely become your main squeeze look at used pre-2014 Custom Shop guitars. It may be a while before Gibson re-learns what they did right.

Flame suit on.


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

^^^^ no flame suit necessary. I agree with everything you've said. Well stated.


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## skilsaw (Nov 4, 2014)

Budda said:


> I also have to suggest a used heritage - the original gibson guys, and even the new price isnt horrendous. It will be the most authentic without getting a vintage instrument.


Heritage, Vintage, Traditional, Studio, Standard, Standard Plus, Standard Premium, Classic, Custom, Reissue... Gibson Les Pauls come in a multitude of models. Difficult as a rookie to understand what I am actually looking at.

Just chose a 2013 Standard over a 2014 Traditional because I liked the locking tuners. And it was weight relieved. All the rest was baffle-gab to me.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

This is the Heritage that was spoken of...http://www.heritageguitar.com/indexa.html

They continued building guitars at the old Gibson factory in Kalamazoo.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

skilsaw said:


> Just chose a 2013 Standard over a 2014 Traditional because I liked the locking tuners. And it was weight relieved. All the rest was baffle-gab to me.


And you got fret nibs too - I don't think the 2014 wouldn't have them.


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## -=Sc0rch=- (Mar 28, 2010)

I have a love/hate relationship with Les Pauls where the ergonomics/comfort of them always makes me not want one.

I love the tone, look, 24.75" scale feel, control layout

I hate that big heel getting in my way on the upper frets, the weight, the way it sits on my body, the overly hyped up prices. I tried 6 times already to get used to them but can't. 

Guess I'm strat-body guy, they feel better to me when hanging off the strap.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

If Gibson would just try this on there heal joint, all would be better, it looks like alot of work, really it is not, i have made guitar bodies, and sanded a belly cut, Mahogany sands very easy and very fast, it sands like its softwood.Gibson would not have that much more time into them, and the result would be great.. They should try a model with this type of heal ..















-=Sc0rch=- said:


> I have a love/hate relationship with Les Pauls where the ergonomics/comfort of them always makes me not want one.
> 
> I love the tone, look, 24.75" scale feel, control layout
> 
> ...


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## -=Sc0rch=- (Mar 28, 2010)

Rick31797 said:


> If Gibson would just try this on there heal joint, all would be better, it looks like alot of work, really it is not, i have made guitar bodies, and sanded a belly cut, Mahogany sands very easy and very fast, it sands like its softwood.Gibson would not have that much more time into them, and the result would be great.. They should try a model with this type of heal ..



they have a model called the axxes or something with a contoured heel, but I ain't paying over $3500 for it. Alex Lifeson's signature les paul has it too I think, again, $4000 price tag. ouch.... But yeah man, it wouldn't take much for Gibson to do this option. I think the reason they don't on other models is to not upset the purist fanboys of the traditional design specs.


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