# NGD: Mystery Greco Les Paul



## dbouchard (Nov 29, 2015)

So I picked up this Greco Les Paul from Far East Guitars in Japan. I just love the look of plain tops. The colour is a kind of honey burst with a dark cherry back.

I'm not sure exactly what model it is since it doesn't have a serial number on it. I researched it before buying, and it seems like Greco did put out some guitars in the early 90s with no serial. They were either made in Korea by Cor-Tek (lower end) or in Japan at the Tokai factory (nicer). 

If anyone is knowledgeable about Grecos, I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on what that guitar actually is. 










Here's a couple of shots of the cavities and pickups. I'm not a Japanese guitar expert but the square routing holes and wiring channel appear to be typical of Tokai made guitars. I took a chance and ordered it on that basis since it was priced like a Korean one. As it turns out, it's a very nice LP. I'll never know if it's actually MIJ but who cares, it plays nice and looks the part


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

It wasn't uncommon for MIJ to have no serials. My buddy's edwards doesn't have one, as well as my other buddy's Greco. 
That all said, what a nice looking guitar. congrats.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Gotta love that plain top burst.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

@Jimmy_D

Nice guitar none the less, congrats!


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

I agree on the plain tops looking good. That guitar all around is just a beaut!


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I love plain tops. I don't know what it is, but I love them.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

That's a beauty!


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Wow you’re a lucky guy, that’s a very nice guitar.

Tokai made some Greco’s in 1989 and they’re the only Greco’s with square routes for the pickup legs so I’d say for sure that’s Tokai made. The wiring channel and round horn are also good indicators it’s a Tokai. 

If the electrics are original, and to me it doesn’t look like the pups are, but if the pots are original the 3 character code on them would date the guitar and should read something like 9*K.

The digit 9 for 1989, the middle character (can be number or letter) would be for the month, the last character is a letter for type of pot (K = regular)

Lets have a look at the rest of the electrics and we’ll see what’s what with the age.

As far as the model goes, if it’s not a refret, then without the nibs it’ll be the lower model EG59-50 or whatever the equivalent lower end model (poly and no nibs) was for that year, by ‘89 that could have been a 60 model.

Looking forward to more pic's...


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

HNGD
That is a gorgeous top. I used to prefer like AAA flame, but now I find them to be gaudy. I much prefer plain or plain with just a little bit of flame or mineral deposits. I don't know what it is about MIJ tops, but I much prefer them to Gibby. more variation in colour


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I really like the top and the neck on your new git.


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## dbouchard (Nov 29, 2015)

Thanks for all the info Jimmy, very helpful! The electronics might not be original either; there is a sheet of clear plastic on the bottom that looks like a template for wiring? Unfortunately, all the pots have solder on them right on top of the markings. Here's a couple of pics of the control cavity with a close up of the pot with the most stuff visible: 


















In any case, here's another pic of the top for all of you plain top aficionados.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Looks like original pots and caps to me, 0_6_K is May 1990 (January starts at 0) 

I've never seen a Tokai made Greco dated that late but the experts do say that some were made into 1990 so I'd say you're good - my best guess is it's a 1990 MIJ Tokai made for Greco.

If you post at MLP in "other single cuts" you'll find that's where the real Greco experts hang out.

Best of luck


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

That is one seriously sweet guitar - congrats.


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## Jaybo (Jun 3, 2010)

Yep. Love that top. Sounds like you got a good deal too. Double win


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

Nice one! I know a fair amount about MIJ LP's but for some reason, not the swiftest on Grecos.

I might have to buy a couple


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Scotty said:


> HNGD
> That is a gorgeous top. I used to prefer like AAA flame, but now I find them to be gaudy. I much prefer plain or plain with just a little bit of flame or mineral deposits. I don't know what it is about MIJ tops, but I much prefer them to Gibby. more variation in colour


I agree with that 100%... and for that reason I'll always be thankful to member sulphur for the trade that brought me this '78 Greco EG900


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I still think that is the nicest colour burst that I've seen.
A plain top is and alway will be my preference.

Glad that you bonded with that one, we're both happy campers.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

sulphur said:


> I still think that is the nicest colour burst that I've seen.
> A plain top is and alway will be my preference.
> 
> Glad that you bonded with that one, we're both happy campers.


I think the best top is a plain top with a bit of flame that snuck through the assembly line. The back of my Epi Dot has just a little bit of fla me hiding in the burst like an optical illusion


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

cboutilier said:


> I think the best top is a plain top with a bit of flame that snuck through the assembly line. The back of my Epi Dot has just a little bit of fla me hiding in the burst like an optical illusion


The R8 I got through Fred looks like a plain top straight on, then you move around and can see the "ghost flame". Pretty 3D,I like that!


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Well....If either of these ever come up for grabs, I want to be the first to know.


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## sakana (Oct 14, 2016)

TDeneka said:


> It wasn't uncommon for MIJ to have no serials. My buddy's edwards doesn't have one, as well as my other buddy's Greco.
> That all said, what a nice looking guitar. congrats.


 I had 2 Edwards LP types when I lived in japan, neither had a serial number, both bought used and were from the early series and as far as I saw over there, probably from the first year they were made in 2004, I still have the single sheet flyer they printed up at the time, there were only a few models that year compared to later years. One of my two had a one piece back the other was 2 pieces. I had and still have quite a few MIJs and the vast majority had/have serials....maybe in the `60 and `70s they didn`t but in later decades they did.
Thats a nice Greco, I have no preference for plains or figured, I have both and like both, I have an early `00 Greco that has a flamed veneer and it is one of the most comfortable players I own...not like they forgot how to build outstanding guitars in the `90s or later, in fact the ones I saw incorporated everything they learned before and then some, for me it doesn`t come down to what decades an MIJ was made but where it fits in the pecking order and there are still many builders in Japan that are virtually unknown outside the country.


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## Hired Goon (Mar 4, 2008)

OMG I so want that guitar. Going to have to keep my eye on that site.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

sulphur said:


> The R8 I got through Fred looks like a plain top straight on, then you move around and can see the "ghost flame". Pretty 3D,I like that!


That's exactly like the back of my 335. I wish my front had it too


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## Temelki (Mar 3, 2021)

dbouchard said:


> So I picked up this Greco Les Paul from Far East Guitars in Japan. I just love the look of plain tops. The colour is a kind of honey burst with a dark cherry back.
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what model it is since it doesn't have a serial number on it. I researched it before buying, and it seems like Greco did put out some guitars in the early 90s with no serial. They were either made in Korea by Cor-Tek (lower end) or in Japan at the Tokai factory (nicer).
> 
> ...


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## Temelki (Mar 3, 2021)

I just picked up the same guitar and by the looks of it it's from the same run. Have a look at the similarities in the wood grains! 










Mine: 








Yours:









I think this is an EG-59 though I can't pinpoint The year.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Temelki said:


> I just picked up the same guitar and by the looks of it it's from the same run. Have a look at the similarities in the wood grains!
> 
> View attachment 353404
> 
> ...


It possibly could be the same guitar. This thread is four years old.

@dbouchard


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

edited


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## Temelki (Mar 3, 2021)

sulphur said:


> It possibly could be the same guitar. This thread is four years old.
> 
> @dbouchard


I don't think so. If you look closely at the patterns in the wood they're strikingly similar but not identical. Either way, would love to be able to confirm the model and year of this thing.

I opened up the back to get a look at the pots and definitely differs from the pic the original poster put up. Still can't date it based on what I'm seeing here though.


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## brokentoes (Jun 29, 2014)

They sure look like the same guitar to me with a electronics swap maybe ??


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

The grain pattern between the lower bridge, tail piece and neck volume pot,
and the mineral marking in the waist of the guitar above and between the pickups are just too similar to my eye.

I'm pretty sure they're the same unit.


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## dbouchard (Nov 29, 2015)

They look pretty similar to me. I don't have this guitar anymore so they could be the same. I sold it a couple of years ago to a guy in the GTA who works on amps & guitars, so the likelihood of pickup swaps and part changes is pretty high. That top though -- if they're not the same, they were almost certainly from the same assembly line / sliced from the same tree


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

I dont care that it's a 4 year old zombie thread..this is cool!
Nice guitar! 

Looks the same to me, but it could be a veneer from the same stack, or photoflame but I really doubt that.
My money is on same guitar.


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## Temelki (Mar 3, 2021)

dbouchard said:


> They look pretty similar to me. I don't have this guitar anymore so they could be the same. I sold it a couple of years ago to a guy in the GTA who works on amps & guitars, so the likelihood of pickup swaps and part changes is pretty high. That top though -- if they're not the same, they were almost certainly from the same assembly line / sliced from the same tree


Whether they're the same or from the same line, still very cool that I happened to come across this thread after grabbing the guitar. Very cool! Out of curiosity why did you let it go? I just bought it off a surgeon from St Mike's for $1000.

If they are the same guitar, hardware has definitely been replaced for vintage style nickel appointments and the pots look different from your original pic. No idea what pickups are in there.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

For the record, because it was never officially answered, the guitar is part of the Greco Mint Collection. The ones made by Tokai for Greco are still Mint Collection but no serials. I think the main difference between the tokais and the greco's in the collection is the Greco's use the long neck tenon and the tokai's have the medium tenon. They all seem to sell in the same price range. I have a 91 EGW-80. Visually the dead giveaway that this is a Tokai made Greco is the angle of the open O logo. Tokai is a little steeper angle than Greco. What's the neck like on it? Mine seems to be a thin 50's or a fat 60's, somewhere in the middle.

To the best of my knowledge neither Tokai nor Greco used fotoflame. That's a Fender Japan idea. Depending on the model some had maple tops some had maple and veneer tops. Some have laminate tops. The higher the model number the better the specs as usual.


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## Temelki (Mar 3, 2021)

knight_yyz said:


> For the record, because it was never officially answered, the guitar is part of the Greco Mint Collection. The ones made by Tokai for Greco are still Mint Collection but no serials. I think the main difference between the tokais and the greco's in the collection is the Greco's use the long neck tenon and the tokai's have the medium tenon. They all seem to sell in the same price range. I have a 91 EGW-80. Visually the dead giveaway that this is a Tokai made Greco is the angle of the open O logo. Tokai is a little steeper angle than Greco. What's the neck like on it? Mine seems to be a thin 50's or a fat 60's, somewhere in the middle.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge neither Tokai nor Greco used fotoflame. That's a Fender Japan idea. Depending on the model some had maple tops some had maple and veneer tops. Some have laminate tops. The higher the model number the better the specs as usual.


The neck is exactly as you described - a thin 50s / fat 60s. So do you think this is an EG-59? What do you think of the $1K price I paid? Good value for one of these?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Seems to be about the right price from my experience. I'm not sure what model you have though. I'm not even sure how to tell what the actual model number is. Mine is easy because it is a Les Paul custom lite which is a copy of the Gibson Custom lite from the 80's. Carved top and bottom but 3/4 the thickness and only weighs 8 lbs...The mint collection only had 2 models of the lite. EGW-80 black and the EGW-80 white. 

If yours is an EG-59 there will be another number after that. EG-59 (1959 copy) but EG59-100 means it cost 100k Yen at the time. The EG-59 goes all the way up to EG59-250 IIRC or thereabouts. The little things make the model/price go up. FEB, material of the fret markers, ebony vs rosewood, stock pickup, lacquer vs poly etc....

There are also EG57, EGC68, EG56 and EG60 models. 

An EG59-80 in 1982 was the lowest number for lacquer. By 1990 that would have changed quite a bit. Probably a -120 would be the first lacquer model....

This is just a guess but I would assume a plain top is a lower end model as opposed to highly flamed top. But where on the scale it belongs i honestly have no idea.


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## MetalTele79 (Jul 20, 2020)

Some good info from knight_yyz!

Also, try posting on the MyLesPaul forum and in particular the Other Singlecuts subforum for some info.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

BTY, to confuse things even more... Cort Korea made budget model Greco's starting around 1990 or so. They do not have serial numbers either. But you won;t find a Korean Mint Collection.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

knight_yyz said:


> Seems to be about the right price from my experience. I'm not sure what model you have though. I'm not even sure how to tell what the actual model number is. Mine is easy because it is a Les Paul custom lite which is a copy of the Gibson Custom lite from the 80's. Carved top and bottom but 3/4 the thickness and only weighs 8 lbs...The mint collection only had 2 models of the lite. EGW-80 black and the EGW-80 white.
> 
> If yours is an EG-59 there will be another number after that. EG-59 (1959 copy) but EG59-100 means it cost 100k Yen at the time. The EG-59 goes all the way up to EG59-250 IIRC or thereabouts. The little things make the model/price go up. FEB, material of the fret markers, ebony vs rosewood, stock pickup, lacquer vs poly etc....
> 
> ...


You should write a book on this stuff, seriously. Maybe you have for all I know? How do you know all this? I seriously don't expect an answer, but I'm glad you do share your knowledge. I've been seriously considering a good MIJ Les Paul, this really helps.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I got into buying and flipping Japanese guitars a few years ago. But before I would buy one I did a ton of research to make sure what I was buying was legit. And I got some amazing deals even with commission and shipping. I'm not a member at LPF but I'm sure google has brought me there hundreds of times. Or Strat Talk or the Tokai forum. I haven't flipped anything for a while now though because rinkya had that weird "accident at the warehouse" and since then I have been on a waiting list.

LOL every guitar I own is japanese except for my Taylor 6 string.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

The op's guitar was almost certainly Tokai made, as noted above there are no photoflame Greco's or Tokai's and I'm not aware of any veneered plain tops by Greco, other than the lower end =<450 model that were hollow core ply topped construction - so if this one is a solid top and has Tokai pup routes, it's probably the same guitar the OP had - let's see some pics of the pickup cavities and back of the pups then we'll know for sure if they're the same. 

BTW the Tokai made Greco's are guaranteed to be among the very best... said by a guy with a lot of Japanese guitars!


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Thanks to both of you. My only experience has been scrolling through Ishibashi music.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

If it is Tokai made you can see from both the 1989 and 1990 Greco catalog cuts below, the plain tops were 600 models both years, as knight_yyz already noted.

ps...must see pics of the pup routes

1989









1990


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## dbouchard (Nov 29, 2015)

Temelki said:


> Whether they're the same or from the same line, still very cool that I happened to come across this thread after grabbing the guitar. Very cool! Out of curiosity why did you let it go? I just bought it off a surgeon from St Mike's for $1000.
> 
> If they are the same guitar, hardware has definitely been replaced for vintage style nickel appointments and the pots look different from your original pic. No idea what pickups are in there.


I sold it because of compulsive buying & selling of guitars, to be honest! It funded a Les Paul Traditional Pro in Tobacco Burst, which has since also been sold and replaced with a plain Honeyburst Tribute... and the cycle continues.

It was a great guitar, and not just for the money. When I sold it, the nut needed work to improve tuning stability but otherwise, it was in good shape and played well. Looking at this thread again, I'm not quite sure why I sold it but hey, life is too short for regrets


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## brokentoes (Jun 29, 2014)

knight_yyz said:


> BTY, to confuse things even more... Cort Korea made budget model Greco's starting around 1990 or so. They do not have serial numbers either. But you won;t find a Korean Mint Collection.



Actually Cort Korea made Les Paul style guitars for Greco starting sometime in 1988. Mint Collection ran until 1990.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

My Greco custom light is part of the mint collection and has Jan '91 serial number and '91 dated pots.


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## brokentoes (Jun 29, 2014)

knight_yyz said:


> My Greco custom light is part of the mint collection and has Jan '91 serial number and '91 dated pots.


There was transitions between all the series, The aren't really set in stone. I have a Greco custom thats not in any catalog. Yet there it is.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

So your statement of the mint collection ending in 1990 is incorrect....


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## brokentoes (Jun 29, 2014)

As incorrect as your statement that there was no Korean Greco Mint collection guitars.Lets call it even lol. I'm a fan of Greco guitars myself.


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