# NAD: Garnet Content



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Hey guys...

I know some of you are fans of these older amps, so I thought I'd post. I got it in a straight trade for my silvertone guitar. They're about on par (although I heard some have gone for next to nothing on eBay)

Anyway, it sounds pretty good. I prefer the cleans, but don't mind the dirt. I'll try it with a bass tomorrow.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Good cleans, eh? Throw some delay at it!


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## PTWamps (Aug 5, 2016)

Nice! Always best to grab old Garnets when you see 'em at a good price.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Not sure what makes it the 'bass' model, but the plain Banshee is a very basic 12AX7 & 6V6, like a Champ has.
I imagine you can crank it wide open without blowing any eardrums?


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

jb welder said:


> Not sure what makes it the 'bass' model, but the plain Banshee is a very basic 12AX7 & 6V6, like a Champ has.
> I imagine you can crank it wide open without blowing any eardrums?


I didn't get a chance to try it with bass today, but I have to turn the treble right down and the bass right up. Not sure if that's due to it being a bass amp.

Yeah, I can crank it and it's not over the top loud.


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## PTWamps (Aug 5, 2016)

Like the Traynor Bass Mate, it is a bass amp only in name and perhaps in choice of stock speaker.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

jb welder said:


> Not sure what makes it the 'bass' model, but the plain Banshee is a very basic 12AX7 & 6V6, like a Champ has.


The cabinet looks bigger (possibly sealed) and the speaker is likely a bit heavier (surprised that no metal dustcap - could be due to era or replacement). Other than that the only other possible differences judging by other examples of Garnets are EQ points (the guitar version had no reverb anyway).

The guitar version is shorter - almost square in front profile. This looks like the same cab size as the 2 speaker version (same but taller), but with just 1 speaker loaded.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Wow...my first experience with a 2 prong cord. damn painful. thankfully, you don't have to grip the rocker switch to turn the amp off.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

I ran stock bass mates at 0 bass and 9 treble for guitar. Then I got one modded. 

The benchee sound rockin man. .


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## PTWamps (Aug 5, 2016)

adcandour said:


> Wow...my first experience with a 2 prong cord. damn painful. thankfully, you don't have to grip the rocker switch to turn the amp off.


Get a three-prong cord in there! First thing you should always do with these old amps for the sake of safety. 18 guage cord from the hardware store, screw on plug, two solder joints for the black and white wires, bolt the green to chassis and you're good to go.


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

My first good sounding tube amp was a used Garnet Rebel II bass combo. It sounded really sweet cranked up with a Japanese LP copy, either straight in or thru a NYC Big Muff. It really sang with it's warm and natural sounding power tube drive and was a total revelation to me after that POS Sears/Silvertone 4-tube white noise generator I had as my first tube amp.


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## carrionrogue (Sep 9, 2016)

Nice find! Garnet made some cool stuff back in the day. I just picked up a 70's garnet 4x12 offset cab and its a monster. Needs a new grill cloth, speaker jack , and some T-nuts for mounting the speakers but I got it for dirt cheap. Other than that the thing is built very well. Also will be putting four eminence EM12's in it.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I bet it smells wonderful. Somebody needs to market "Odor of Old Amp" and sell it in spray cans


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

carrionrogue said:


> Nice find! Garnet made some cool stuff back in the day. I just picked up a 70's garnet 4x12 offset cab and its a monster. Needs a new grill cloth, speaker jack , and some T-nuts for mounting the speakers but I got it for dirt cheap. Other than that the thing is built very well. Also will be putting four eminence EM12's in it.


Offset as in tall style with the speakers zig zagged vs in line? Sweet, didn't know Garnet made those. I'd love a Garnet one - I have a Riviera (stencil brand, but made by/for Pepco vs Garnet), but considerring the styling, looks very Garnet (black cloth, black tolex, white piping, same stap handles on the sides - then again, there wasn't much selection as regards cab hardware back in the 70s as there is now) it's probably the same aside from the badge. I doubt Garnet actually made their own cabs, though, and now that I think about it, it was probably outsourced to the same company Pepco used. Canadian musical gear makers were a much smaller community back then.


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## carrionrogue (Sep 9, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Offset as in tall style with the speakers zig zagged vs in line? Sweet, didn't know Garnet made those. I'd love a Garnet one - I have a Riviera (stencil brand, but made by/for Pepco vs Garnet), but considerring the styling, looks very Garnet (black cloth, black tolex, white piping, same stap handles on the sides - then again, there wasn't much selection as regards cab hardware back in the 70s as there is now) it's probably the same aside from the badge. I doubt Garnet actually made their own cabs, though, and now that I think about it, it was probably outsourced to the same company Pepco used. Canadian musical gear makers were a much smaller community back then.


Yup that's the one, my buddy had the same cab as me also but his was practically closet clean, its 41" tall and slightly narrower than a typical 4x12 cab at 25.5" It's Rear loaded with strap handles on the side, garnet badge at the top left corner of the baffle. You're probably right about garnet not making their own cabs. Turns out I'm going to have to take the baffle out to re-do the tolex (unless anyone has a better method let me know please). I'll post some pictures once I get it all cleaned up. Ordered all the hardware and new speakers from Q-components yesterday.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Offset as in tall style with the speakers zig zagged vs in line? Sweet, didn't know Garnet made those. I'd love a Garnet one - I have a Riviera (stencil brand, but made by/for Pepco vs Garnet), but considerring the styling, looks very Garnet (black cloth, black tolex, white piping, same stap handles on the sides - then again, there wasn't much selection as regards cab hardware back in the 70s as there is now) it's probably the same aside from the badge. I doubt Garnet actually made their own cabs, though, and now that I think about it, it was probably outsourced to the same company Pepco used. Canadian musical gear makers were a much smaller community back then.


I have the matching head for your Riviera!


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

So do I (or my studio partner anyay - might as well be mine as he never has time to jam anymore so I use it more) ;P From what I can tell, collectively, we own the entire Riviera product line with the exception of the deluxe guitar only version of the 725 head (we have the more common guit/bass w no fx version).












carrionrogue said:


> Yup that's the one, my buddy had the same cab as me also but his was practically closet clean, its 41" tall and slightly narrower than a typical 4x12 cab at 25.5" It's Rear loaded with strap handles on the side, garnet badge at the top left corner of the baffle. You're probably right about garnet not making their own cabs. Turns out I'm going to have to take the baffle out to re-do the tolex (unless anyone has a better method let me know please). I'll post some pictures once I get it all cleaned up. Ordered all the hardware and new speakers from Q-components yesterday.


Hmmn, so not exactly the same as mine - everything but the width is the same. Mine is unusually wide (30-31" like a reg 4x12, but taller). I suspect this was done because the Riviera stuff was designed as dual use (guit/bass - that 1x15 is really good for either too) so this gives it a larger internal volume and lower cab tuning vs typical guitar 4x12s. Your Garnet seems to be the same dimensions (or similar anyway) to the classic Sunn 4x12s (before they changed to short style in the mid-late 70s).

With these rear-loaders you are gonna have to remove the baffle to change the tolex and/or the grille cloth. No idea why they just didn't make them front loaders - easier cause then the back does not have to be removable (via, like, a million screws - such a needless pain).


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> So do I (or my studio partner anyay - might as well be mine as he never has time to jam anymore so I use it more) ;P From what I can tell, collectively, we own the entire Riviera product line with the exception of the deluxe guitar only version of the 725 head (we have the more common guit/bass w no fx version).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have the deluxe 730 head! Guitar only, single channel, bright switch, trem, reverb, 2 knob tone control.


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## PTWamps (Aug 5, 2016)

Nice! I have the Pine 725 50-watt version, branded Mansfield but with an identical control panel to the Riviera. Mine needed a lot of work (I got it almost for free; guy I traded with thought it was a Garnet) so I rewired it using the AB165 Bassman schematic for guidance on component values. I A-Bd it with a couple of real 60s Bassmans and the 725 sounds almost identical.

Grab these when you see 'em -- and if you don't need 'em, send them to me.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

PTWamps said:


> Nice! I have the Pine 725 50-watt version, branded Mansfield but with an identical control panel to the Riviera. Mine needed a lot of work (I got it almost for free; guy I traded with thought it was a Garnet) so I rewired it using the AB165 Bassman schematic for guidance on component values. I A-Bd it with a couple of real 60s Bassmans and the 725 sounds almost identical.
> 
> Grab these when you see 'em -- and if you don't need 'em, send them to me.


I can't decide if I'm going to leave mine with its original values, or try and point it further in the Deluxe Reverb direction. Id have to add an extra tube to go all the way to single channel DR territory.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Our 725 has had the tone stack rebuilt. I haven't played a stock one, but this one is a midrange monster (and works so well with that Marsland 15; such a great match). Love the damn thing. I've also seen people remove the tonestack leaving only a single tilt style tone control. They report that really opens them up and actually makes them quite a bit louder.



PTWamps said:


> Nice! I have the Pine 725 50-watt version, branded Mansfield but with an identical control panel to the Riviera.


Very interesting about the Masfield-branded 50 watt version - what's it run 6Ca7s?


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Our 725 has had the tone stack rebuilt. I haven't played a stock one, but this one is a midrange monster (and works so well with that Marsland 15; such a great match). Love the damn thing. I've also seen people remove the tonestack leaving only a single tilt style tone control. They report that really opens them up and actually makes them quite a bit louder.
> 
> 
> 
> Very interesting about the Masfield-branded 50 watt version - what's it run 6Ca7s?


Every 725 I've seen was a pair of 6v6 for ~20 watts or so. Same for any 730s I've seen. I'd guess the 50 watter was modded (either by a previous owner or by Pine) to take a pair of 6L6


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## carrionrogue (Sep 9, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> With these rear-loaders you are gonna have to remove the baffle to change the tolex and/or the grille cloth. No idea why they just didn't make them front loaders - easier cause then the back does not have to be removable (via, like, a million screws - such a needless pain).


I meant to say grill cloth, my mistake. But yea, front loaded would be much easier. 
I had a 70's sunn 4x12 LH cab before with the original sunn transducers. 
That cab rattled everything, it was much deeper than the garnet and a bit wider.

As for the garnet, im really just experimenting. Im hoping it will pump out some lower mids more than a typical 4x12. Not sure what the tonal difference is going to be if I A/B it next to my hiwatt and orange 4x12's but im excited to find out.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

cboutilier said:


> Every 725 I've seen was a pair of 6v6 for ~20 watts or so. Same for any 730s I've seen. I'd guess the 50 watter was modded (either by a previous owner or by Pine) to take a pair of 6L6


More like 16-18, but yeah - that's all I've ever seen too. 50 watts from a pair of 6L6s is pushing them too hard IMHO (possible with high enough plate voltage, but I've never liked it). The best you can do with 6L6s without sacrificing tone or reliability is about 35 watts. ... though I do see a lot of 6L6 30ish watters (including a Garnet Rebel a while back) advertised as 50s in gear shops for some stupid reason.

Bringing this tangent back around, I was helping my bud shop around for a new amp and we found him a cool Garnet Revolution 2x12 combo. It's dark (whithout the pull-brite engaged at least), 6L6 based and loves Tele bridge pickup. Looks cool too; it has the controls on the top rear vs front like most of them and the badge has all the silver rubbed off so it's all aged/faded/matte black ; no piping.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Now you've piqued my interest. I acquired a Mansfield guitar earlier this year, which was the house brand of Peate's Music in Montreal (http://www.peate.com/HistoryArchives.html); historically located at the corner of St. Catherine and Mansfield, downtown. I don't know if they had garnet make Mansfield amps for them, but certainly just about everything else they made under their house brand appeared to be from jobbers elsewhere, with no original designs of anything.

Pine and Pepco were both Montreal-made amps, as were Lifco/Symphonic. Stands to reason that Peate's would have had their house-brand stuff made locally, if possible. So are the garnet Mansfield amps a Peate's house brand, or something entirely different, but sharing the same name?


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> More like 16-18, but yeah - that's all I've ever seen too. 50 watts from a pair of 6L6s is pushing them too hard IMHO (possible with high enough plate voltage, but I've never liked it). The best you can do with 6L6s without sacrificing tone or reliability is about 35 watts. ... though I do see a lot of 6L6 30ish watters (including a Garnet Rebel a while back) advertised as 50s in gear shops for some stupid reason.
> 
> Bringing this tangent back around, I was helping my bud shop around for a new amp and we found him a cool Garnet Revolution 2x12 combo. It's dark (whithout the pull-brite engaged at least), 6L6 based and loves Tele bridge pickup. Looks cool too; it has the controls on the top rear vs front like most of them and the badge has all the silver rubbed off so it's all aged/faded/matte black ; no piping.


Nominal 50 watts, ie market power. Like my 4xEL84 50 watter. I basically consider a 50 watter to be anything with a pair of big tubes, or a quad of little ones in fixed bias. Realistically probably only 30-45W .


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

mhammer said:


> Now you've piqued my interest. I acquired a Mansfield guitar earlier this year, which was the house brand of Peate's Music in Montreal (http://www.peate.com/HistoryArchives.html); historically located at the corner of St. Catherine and Mansfield, downtown. I don't know if they had garnet make Mansfield amps for them, but certainly just about everything else they made under their house brand appeared to be from jobbers elsewhere, with no original designs of anything.
> 
> Pine and Pepco were both Montreal-made amps, as were Lifco/Symphonic. Stands to reason that Peate's would have had their house-brand stuff made locally, if possible. So are the garnet Mansfield amps a Peate's house brand, or something entirely different, but sharing the same name?


I believe Pepco did Mansfield stencil work, although there's no reason Garnet didn't as well. Look how many brands built Silvertone gear.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

True. The customer is free to move around and find another jobber. It's not like the house brand name "belongs" to the jobber.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Garnet was one of the jobbers (amps only) for Pepco (or at least some of the same brands that Pepco also contributed too), but not the only one, and Gar jobbed for others too... such as Gibson in the Norlin years (solid state - the Lab Series 2 which is respected a bit but not as much as the original Moog-designed Lab Series, especially the L5 whose preamp is legendary).

Quite sure Garnet made some of the Mansfields, for example, though probably not the ones that look like Rivieras.


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## PTWamps (Aug 5, 2016)

Lots to respond to here. Yes, Mansfield was the house brand of Peate`s music.... Pine and Garnet both made amps for them. The guitars were MIJ (Matsumoku possibly) The Mansfield 725 (Pine) would have the CSA No. 19952 on it. The Mansfield Recording MR20 is a Garnet-made vertical profile combo. Garnet CSA is LR24510. ... but after you`ve seen enough of them you can readily distinguish who made what.

My 725 has a newish Hammond 50-watt (dated 2008) OT that could indeed have been part of an upgrade from 22 to 50 watts. I can`t say I have ever seen another 50 watt Pine, so I wonder. A bias pot was added, and a mid control (which I removed). Most everything else appeared stock... or was certainly vintage. I replaced the tube sockets, most of the caps, and ran new wires between all the terminal strips... it really was a dog`s breakfast when it arrived, but it sings like a lizard now. Ha ha.

GrannyGremlin: Not quite sure why you`d say 50 watts is too much for a pair of 6L6s. Classic BF & SF Bassmans, Super Reverbs, and blonde Supers are all amps in the 40 to 50 watt range running 6L6s.... in fact it is pretty much an industry norm. I have a later (1981) late SF Super Reverb that upped the wattage to 70 -- now _that_ is excessive. But with a good set of JJs the amp runs fine -- and has mostly in the 23 years I`ve owned it.

Cheers.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

PTWamps said:


> Lots to respond to here. Yes, Mansfield was the house brand of Peate`s music.... Pine and Garnet both made amps for them. The guitars were MIJ (Matsumoku possibly) The Mansfield 725 (Pine) would have the CSA No. 19952 on it. The Mansfield Recording MR20 is a Garnet-made vertical profile combo. Garnet CSA is LR24510. ... but after you`ve seen enough of them you can readily distinguish who made what.
> 
> My 725 has a newish Hammond 50-watt (dated 2008) OT that could indeed have been part of an upgrade from 22 to 50 watts. I can`t say I have ever seen another 50 watt Pine, so I wonder. A bias pot was added, and a mid control (which I removed). Most everything else appeared stock... or was certainly vintage. I replaced the tube sockets, most of the caps, and ran new wires between all the terminal strips... it really was a dog`s breakfast when it arrived, but it sings like a lizard now. Ha ha.
> 
> ...


Those ulira linear clean machines. The Twin was rated at 135 from a quad of 6L6 too in that era.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Peak maybe, but not RMS (which is the standard for comparison today). The Baseman 5D6 circuit was only 28 watts. The Twin wide panel (pair 6L6) was only 25. A proper Twin (quad) ranges from 80 ( vintage tweed Fender Twin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) to 85 (blackface thru modern Fender Vintage Reissue '65 Twin Reverb 85W 2x12 Guitar Combo Amp). The Twin 135 was an untralinear amp (i.e. no fixed class); I was talking about straight up ABx push pulls which is the most common thing in >20 watt guitar amps (the Twin 135 and tube era Sunn amps are notable exceptions). Even then I am skeptical of that 135 rating because my 4 x 6550 ultralinear Sunn is only rated 120 (6550 datasheet says max is about 100 from a pair, though in practice I can't recall seeing anything over 60) - some makers may have been more conservative than others when it came to their ratings (Sunn is known for underrating wattage; the story being that otherwise, on paper, it looked like their cabs couldn't handle the power).

My Bogen is 33 and Garnet Rebel is 30 ( though the model # is G90 which is loosely based on peak wattage). Both are 6L6 pairs. 40-50 (honest RMS) is hardly the norm (though possible); 30-40 is.

Some reasons 6L6 pair based amps were probably 'considerrred' (read: referred to as) 50 watters are because some of them approached 40 watts (55 is the max , per pair, listed on a 6L6GC datasheet - but hardly anybody makes them at that output power because pushing tubes to their limits makes for unstable and unreliable, as is short tube life, amps; and you probably could push them even harder than that if you really wanted to), and in order to keep things simple (2 large power tubes = 50 no matter the type; 4 = 100 - not having to explain to customers about different amp classes etc) and to compete with the British amps (EL34 based for an honest 50/100) starting to get imported, they just rounded up. I know there were Bassmans that were marketed by Fender as 50 (pair) but I not familiar so I dunno how honest that is (like I said a lot of other makers were calling it by peak wattage back then; no standards, or maybe they were ultralinear too, like the Twin 135). To this day (despite Fender themselves selling Twin reissues as 85 watts RMS) people still call them 100.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

A power rating is meaningless without freq response and distortion specs. It's marketing more than anything.

I toured the Peavey factory in 1981. They'd just released an amp they were quite proud of (justifiably so, it's become a sleeper of sorts), the Bandit/Special line. The larger amp was labeled a Special 120. Then the PV people told us a little secret. They knew their closest competitors would come out with an amp very similar to their new offering, with similar specs. Then he showed us the mid-year faceplate - Special 130. No plans to change the output topology or devices though, just the ink.

Honestly, sometimes that's all it takes to make a sale. I see people all the time talking about an 40W amp not being loud enough, so they're going to step up to 50W amp. The audible difference between those would be negligible. In the high-end hi-fi world, it seems to go the other way. Some amp makers take pride in 30 watt amps that will produce that output, flat from DC to daylight, with like o.oooo1% distortion. I saw an article where a guy was able to arc weld with the output of his massively under-rated amp, it produced so much stable current into a very low impedance. In reality, those would probably be 100W amps, but those guys thinks it's cool to kill with only 30 watts. It's like a badge of honor to them.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

There are amps with pairs of 6L6 or EL34 that will put out 60W and quads that will do 120. It's all about the iron and power supply capability. You can push tubes beyond their specs, and run classes of operation more like class B. MusicMan amps are a good example of squeezing every possible watt out of the tubes.
Agree that most common amps are really more like 40 (pair) or 80 watt (quad).

High/Deaf's statement about going from 40 to 50W and the difference being negligible is important. Even going from 50 to 100W is only a 3db gain. Nothing huge, a bit more headroom. Nothing like getting 2 times the loudness, which would require going from 50W to 500W.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

My LSS has taught me a lot. Going from 30W (4 tubes) to 15W (2 tubes) to 5W (1 tube) without any other changes really gave me a feel for 'power doubling'. The SPL doesn't change drastically, but the dynamics/compression changes are significant. That's the headroom difference. It was educational to hear it in a controlled environment. 

I played last week at a quite loud jam (relatively small room though) with two other guitar players and I used my 5W setting on my gain channel. Total squashed and compressed, but it cut through amidst those other 50W amps. Absolutely no headroom to speak of. Couldn't live with that alone, but switching into and out of it was effective.


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## PTWamps (Aug 5, 2016)

Some companies over rate their power, but do some under-rate? I've heard an AC30 side by side with a Twin and it competes on every level.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I have a '93 Fender Concert (not to be confused with earlier Concert amps) which runs 2 6L6s. I could be wrong but I was under the impression it was 60w.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

The '93 Concert is about 55W. The red-knob Super 60 from a couple years earlier was an actual 60W.

It should be noted that modern tubes may not deliver the full power that 'classic' tubes did.
The numbers Granny quoted (40W for pairs, 80W for quads) may well be due to this.


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## carrionrogue (Sep 9, 2016)

I said id post pics of my garnet cab once it was done getting all cleaned up so here it is so far....










starting to replace the speaker mounts with T-nuts....








installing new grill cloth








airing out the cigarette smell, almost ready for new speakers!


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Nice cab and nice work carrionrogue!



jb welder said:


> High/Deaf's statement about going from 40 to 50W and the difference being negligible is important. Even going from 50 to 100W is only a 3db gain. Nothing huge, a bit more headroom. Nothing like getting 2 times the loudness, which would require going from 50W to 500W.


Yeah, obviously I agree with that, BUT, 3db can actually be rather significant. Going from a Garnet Sessionman to a Sunn 1200s is very noticable (on paper just a hair over double the power, in practise probably closer to triple), yes the headroom, but also the volume. 10 watts, sure, makes no noticable difference (the speaker's efficiancy is more significant), but I also find that 3db more at low volumes (e.g. 10ish to 20ish watts, or even 30 to 50/60) is much less impactful than doubling at higher wattage (as in my case - FYI, same cab just changed heads).



PTWamps said:


> Some companies over rate their power, but do some under-rate? I've heard an AC30 side by side with a Twin and it competes on every level.


Yes, like my Sunn (as mentionned, because otherwise it looked as if their amps would blow their cabs; JBL also underrated power handling of their speakers a tad, and cab type can have a significant effect on that anyway, e.g. acoustic suspension). Obviously, historically it has been usually more advantageous to over rate power from a marketing perspective, but it happens.

There's also different ways of calculating wattage, beyond just plain RMS and Peak. Don't even start with speaker efficiency specs (which are measured not calculated); whoa.


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## carrionrogue (Sep 9, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Nice cab and nice work carrionrogue!
> Yeah, obviously I agree with that, BUT, 3db can actually be rather significant. .


thanks man,
speakers are going in this Thursday, cant wait.

I have to agree, I own only 50W and 100W heads and the 3db makes a big difference. 
My DR103 hiwatt feels so much more powerful than my 50W fenders. I'm sure there are obvious reasons for this but i'm not good with the technical side of amps so all of my evidence is from observation and listening. This thread is interesting and i'm trying to keep up.


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## PTWamps (Aug 5, 2016)

Decibels are a logarithmic unit, so you can't just figure 3 dbs on an incremental level. The difference in "loudness" of 3db can be quite significant.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Yes, that's what I was getting at, but in lay speak.... though I'm not sure db itself is log, so much as it's factors, but that's a hair hardly worth splitting


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Best if we can compare apples to apples.
For example, comparing 2 amps of the same brand & basic model, only difference being 50W or 100W version, using same cab.
Do you consider it a major or minor difference?
I find it noticeable, but 'significant' is going to vary depending on who you talk to and what they mean by that.
For myself, I consider it a minor, rather than major difference.
My point being, when comparing different brands or models, it may not be the db that is the difference maker.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Yes, that's what I was getting at, but in lay speak.... though I'm not sure db itself is log, so much as it's factors, but that's a hair hardly worth splitting


The decibel scale by definition is logarithmic. That is, compared to 50 dB, 60 dB is perceived as twice as loud by our ears but requires 10X the power. 70 dB would appear to be 4 times as loud but would require 100 X the power to achieve. So the power measurement in watts is linear, but it's impact on SPL is logarithmic. 

dB is simply a ratio. Power can also be measured in dB, but then needs a suffix. An example is dBm, where 0 dBm isn't 0 power, it is 1 mw. 30 dBm is 1 watt. A 100 watt guitar amp could also be correctly rated at 50 dBm and a 20 watt amp at 43 dBm.


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## PTWamps (Aug 5, 2016)

High/Deaf, you are _da man_ for electronics theory.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

PTWamps said:


> High/Deaf, you are _da man_ for electronics theory.


I know! Makes me hang my educated head in shame.


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## carrionrogue (Sep 9, 2016)

Hey guys, cab is done. Four 8 ohm speakers wired in series/parallel to achieve 8 ohms total. 
Speakers are 200 watts a piece. Lighting in the practice space is poor btw...


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## PTWamps (Aug 5, 2016)

Congrats! That cab is gonna rock.


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