# Benefits of Roasted wood for Guitar bodies and necks



## Doug B (Jun 19, 2017)

I have noticed a trend (marketing hype?) lately for electric guitars made with roasted wood. They claim that the roasting speeds up the aging. 

My first reaction was that this is B.S. But is it? 

Cheers


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

No. It's hogwash. 

It may have some effect on acoustics but you would need an anechoic chamber to measure the difference on an electric solid body.


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## Doug B (Jun 19, 2017)

Steadfastly said:


> No. It's hogwash.
> 
> It may have some effect on acoustics but you would need an anechoic chamber to measure the difference on an electric solid body.


I thought it was, just thought I would ask.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Roasted would be easier for your dog to chew. That's about it.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Steadfastly said:


> No. It's hogwash.
> 
> It may have some effect on acoustics but you would need an anechoic chamber to measure the difference on an electric solid body.


Tonal effects for sure, but I wonder if it makes any effect of stability.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

maybe they like using dry wood so all you guys will buy more lemon oil for your fretboards. 
hahahahaha


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

cboutilier said:


> Tonal effects for sure, but I wonder if it makes any effect of stability.


Fore acoustics, I like what Yamaha does with their A.R.E. treatment for opening up the wood. However, buying a used instrument that's been around for a few years and played regularly, likely accomplishes the same thing.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

We have a member who roasts wood. I've purchases a few neck blanks from him. The wood is very stable and nice to work with and it smells great. Almost like maple cured bacon. 

Here's s link to his ebay store.

Items in Hades Roasted Maple store on eBay!

Maybe he'll see this, stop in, and enlighten us


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

The nicest Tele neck I have played to date was on a Suhr Classic Antique T - roasted maple with a very light finish. That guitar haunts me to this day, even though I'd still be hard-pressed to pay over 3 grand for a Tele. I also really like the look of it.


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## Ronbeast (Nov 11, 2008)

I always thought the purpose of roasting wood was for stability purposes? I had never heard anyone mention speeding up the aging process or different tone or any of that bull crap.

I think it will yield a stable neck because the moisture content would be low and the wood would be properly seasoned, but I think the process is gimmicky in the sense that most necks are stable enough with conventional methods. I'd say a regular multi piece neck is more likely to be stable than a single piece roasted neck.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Why hasn't a luthier popped in and answered this one for us? :/


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## AlBDarned (Jun 29, 2017)

Budda said:


> Why hasn't a luthier popped in and answered this one for us? :/


Because they are not wont to dispel myths that prospective customers may believe


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## AlBDarned (Jun 29, 2017)

Ronbeast said:


> I think it will yield a stable neck because the moisture content would be low and the wood would be properly seasoned


Not sure about 'seasoned,' but wood is hygroscopic, which means it's going to adjust to the ambient air conditions anyway. You can dry it out all you want, won't stay that way.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

AlBDarned said:


> Not sure about 'seasoned,' but wood is hygroscopic, which means it's going to adjust to the ambient air conditions anyway. You can dry it out all you want, won't stay that way.


True. Leave your glossy axe in the basement and watch the finish crack.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

AlBDarned said:


> Because they are not wont to dispel myths that prospective customers may believe


Eh, I think some builders are morally above that


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## AlBDarned (Jun 29, 2017)

Budda said:


> Eh, I think some builders are morally above that


It's not really a question of morals - if a guitar buyer commissioning a guitar is of the opinion that Wood ABC Subspecies 24 has more of the tonal characteristics that they're looking for than Wood rs59q and asks for that, then who's the luthier to say "those woods are going to sound pretty much the same." The beauty of the sound is is the ear of the beholder. If I can't tell the difference between two woods it's not immoral for me not to tell you you're wrong if you can.

All I will tell you is that if you compare the discussion on luthiers' forums to the discussions on acoustic guitar players forums, the players spend a helluva lot more talking about tonal characteristics of particular woods than the luthiers!


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

The late Glenn McDougall of Fury Guitars told me: "You can only make a guitar so good, after that you're just paying for fancy materials and decoration."

Looks like you're both right, Bud and Al. 

Guitars players are full of shit, but there are some honest luthiers out there.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

KapnKrunch said:


> The late Glenn McDougall of Fury Guitars told me:* "You can only make a guitar so good, after that you're just paying for fancy materials and decoration.*"


I have seen so many posts that would make the uninitiated think that guitars are the most intricate of all manufactured products. Those kind of people are overpaying for their purchases or are still saving for it/them.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

The feature of aged wood that roasting seeks to emulate is that in aged lumber the pitch or resin is completely petrified, in other words it has zero water content, it's hard like glass and turns to dust when you cut it.

When the pitch is petrified it makes the lumber stiffer and it can aid in making the material less reactive to seasonal changes, hence the "more stable" claims.

Kiln or air drying alone doesn't petrify the pitch/resin, it needs to literally age afterwards for that to happen with kiln/air dried. Roasting does the job alright but it has side effects I personally don't like - colour being the biggest one.

The above is why I have a preference for reclaiming old growth lumber for instruments...


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

The other factor is weight. A well dried or roasted body should be lighter than a comparable body with more moisture content. But I imagine that roasted body comes at a premium and I doubt there's much sonic difference. 

On acoustic guitars, it makes a significant difference on the tone. And being that there are no other tonal upgrades available on an acoustic, if you want it you have to pay for it at the get-go. In my experience, it's not cheap. I couldn't justify the price difference to have a roasted body for a solidbody electric when a simple pickup change will provide more tonal variation. But a roasted neck I could see - for reasons mentioned above and to perhaps balance the weight of a neck heavy guitar.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Jimmy_D said:


> *The above is why I have a preference for reclaiming old growth lumber for instruments*...


That seems to be the best choice, even though you are paying more for it. That is likely the reason some are going the roasting route.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

BBQ tele

I like the sound of that...


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

If you roast the wood you are changing the properties of the wood. Therefore there will be some tonal difference. Whether you can hear it or not the wood has changed properties after roasting. It also helps the figuring pop a bit more
It's as close as you can get to fortified wood without the wait 

Adds dimensional stability and resistance to temperature and humidity changes.
Hydroscopic cellulose is sealed and humidity does not change wood dimensionally resulting in in resistance to movement and warp.
Roasted color is maintained throughout the wood without the use of stains or chemicals.
Stiffness, strength, and the integrity of the wood are better maintained.
Microstructure is similar to naturally aged woods.
Hazardous chemicals are not used.
In music woods customers indicate that roasted maple exhibits clearer tone and strength characteristics than regular maple.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Going by what Warmoth has on their website, the roasted variations all seem to be lighter weight tha their non-roasted equivalents.


Steadfastly said:


> No. It's hogwash.
> 
> It may have some effect on acoustics but you would need an anechoic chamber to measure the difference on an electric solid body.


Source?


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

jdto said:


> Source?


Don't be ridicurous.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

LanceT said:


> Don't be ridicurous.


Yea, don't be ridiculous. Steadly shouldn't be held to the same standards as the rest of us. 
It's a good thing you're looking out for this guy, Lance.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2017)




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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 112121


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

I do not believe that wood makes a difference in sound characteristics with electric guitars. I never have. 
The big advertising and "Magical" discovery of domestic species of wood that will be acceptable to guitar public who do think it makes a different was so predictable, As soon as this CITES topic was brought up, I mentioned it would be only a matter of time before this debate came up. 

It doesn't make any difference in sound characteristics, It does not affect the tone (the natural EQ perceptions)

It does affect the resistance to seasonal humidity changes - Much better than rosewood or unfinished maple ever could. 
It does affect input costs, but roasting a piece of domestic lumber may actually be cheaper than importing wood from India or Asia.

Personally with the fashion trend right now I'm surprised that necks are not poly resin with a richlite fretboard. 

Kramer had the right idea in the 1970's: Aluminum I beam necks with wood inlays for shape.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Kramer had the right idea in the 1970's: Aluminum I beam necks with wood inlays for shape.[/QUOTE]

Where are our "metallurgists" from the titanium strings thread?

My experience as a welder, and a also as a guy who had a girl in the band who played a Kramer with alum. neck, I can confidently suggest that aluminium reacts way too drastically to temperature changes.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Lincoln said:


> Almost like maple cured bacon.


Makes for a tasty guitar !


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

KapnKrunch said:


> My experience as a welder, and a also as a guy who had a girl in the band who played a Kramer with alum. neck, I can confidently suggest that aluminium reacts way too drastically to temperature changes.


That was my experience, too. I played a few of those dogs in the 70s and there's a reason why they are thousands of different models of wooden-necked guitars out there and at best, one or two models with aluminum necks. It seemed like a good idea at the time I suppose, kinda like that grill on the Edsel .........

But steadly of course has never played one. He heard a youtube clip once though, so his expertise is bona fide.


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## blue_dog (Feb 7, 2013)

I've heard this is hogwash on a solid body guitar. No tonal difference using roasted wood on the body. Stability advantages with the neck. Very negligible tonal differences overall. On acoustic top, I heard that it does play a difference but too what extent?


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

I'm going to stick my '56 strat in the oven for about 6 hours, and see if it sounds better afterwards


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Lincoln said:


> We have a member who roasts wood. I've purchases a few neck blanks from him. The wood is very stable and nice to work with and it smells great. Almost like maple cured bacon.
> 
> Here's s link to his ebay store.
> 
> ...


Also lighter due to less moisture content. In that way, it is like pre-aging a guitar... but there's more to aging than moisture loss and roasting also has other effects (cosmetic).


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## Ronbeast (Nov 11, 2008)

I'm not in the tonewood camp either; it's cool if you are, I just think there are far too many variables to nail down exactly what is making which differences.

Aluminum necks were an interesting blip in the history of guitars, but again they were impractical and not great in rapidly changing weather conditions and temperatures.

I would love to see more production model guitars with composite necks and different materials. Graphite, carbon fibre, etc. I guess the "cheapest" production models to date would have been made by Peavey, but they bowed out of that market a long time ago.

It seems like a very empty market right now in the alternative material guitar world, you have some composite fretboards, but not much besides. At the low end you have Moses graphite necks, and at the high end you have status, modulus and a few others. It'll be interesting to see where the market goes now with 3D printing and increasingly stricter rules on certain wood use.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

One interesting feature is that roasted maple does not require a hard finish. Didn't Gibson use some roasted maple on their fretboards for a while? I don't really like glossy fretboards, so a neck made entirely of roasted maple is an interesting option to me.

Even if roasting doesn't change the tone much (who knows, never tried it), I will say that stability on the neck can make a HUGE difference in how much you like to play your guitar. I recently purchased a bass with a quarter-sawn neck, which apparently also has similar stability features, and it is so much better than anything I have ever played before. The sustain is unreal. It does make me interested in checking out a quarter-sawn or baked neck for a Tele.

This page from Warmoth has some interesting points about roasted maple, including how you need to be a little more careful during assembly to avoid cracking.
Roasted Maple Necks...Yum! - Warmoth Blog


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## Ronbeast (Nov 11, 2008)

@troyhead Gibson did use roasted maple for fretboards for a while, but I'm not sure specifically when. My 2011 melody maker V has a roasted maple fretboard and it looks like a light rosewood board. It feels nice and it's low maintenance for maple. The reason most maple is coated is because unfinished maple gets grimey and covered in stains easily (never use lemon oil on a unfinished maple board for example). But the roasted board is fine for conditioners.

And +1 to the quarter sawn necks. One of my Peaveys has a quartersawn neck and that thing doesn't move at all. The grain isn't the prettiest, but stability is amazing.


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## mr trick (Sep 21, 2013)

I have bought a lot of wood in the last 40 years, most of it kiln dried, where steam is used to heat up the air and wood and force the moisture out, hmmm, sounds a bit like roasting! or steaming veggies. if you ever want to make a wooden tip of a stake a little harder, roast it over an open fire and you will actually temper the wood, make it harder. The hardened wood cells don't take on as much moisture afterwards. when marimba builders start using roasted wood I would be more inclined to believe it sounds better


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

Then there is what Yamaha is doing, simulating the aging of wood. Apparently they have figured out how to make the sap crystallize the way t does as wood ages. They also vibrate the wood to simulate years of use. They were doing this for pianos, but Billy Sheehan's Attitude line of basses is getting this treatment as well. I can't speak to its effectiveness, but Yamaha doesn't strike me as the type of company that does this type of thing for no reason.


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## HadesRoastedMap (Dec 5, 2013)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Also lighter due to less moisture content. In that way, it is like pre-aging a guitar... but there's more to aging than moisture loss and roasting also has other effects (cosmetic).


Hi Guys,
Its been a while since I posted on the forum (I'm flat out lately but did had time to build a Tele this year made of all roasted woods) you can see it on my facebookpage. If anyone would like to know more about roasted woods or would like to try it send me a PM and I would be glad to give you more information on the process and the dozens of builders who are currently using it and players with roasted guitars. 
Thanks,
Rene Landry
HadesRoastedMap


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

HadesRoastedMap said:


> Hi Guys,
> Its been a while since I posted on the forum (I'm flat out lately but did had time to build a Tele this year made of all roasted woods) you can see it on my facebookpage. If anyone would like to know more about roasted woods or would like to try it send me a PM and I would be glad to give you more information on the process and the dozens of builders who are currently using it and players with roasted guitars.
> Thanks,
> Rene Landry
> HadesRoastedMap


I spent a little more time looking at pictures of your wood than I care to admit.


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## HadesRoastedMap (Dec 5, 2013)

The Tele I built came in at 6.8 lbs which is on the light side for sure. The Roasting process does make the blanks lighter. Anywhere from 10 to 20% lighter. 
Stability is the biggest benefit! Combine my quartersawn blanks (done with a custom designed and built saw mill) with my roasting process and you are sure to have a stable neck for generations. I'm working a little video which describes how I saw my guitar neck blanks. Once you see that you will understand how I get perfect q-sawn grain every-time and the effort that goes into making every music part. I only saw logs for one purpose and that is to make musical instrument parts. 
HadesRoastedMap


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

HadesRoastedMap said:


> The Tele I built came in at 6.8 lbs which is on the light side for sure. The Roasting process does make the blanks lighter. Anywhere from 10 to 20% lighter.
> Stability is the biggest benefit! Combine my quartersawn blanks (done with a custom designed and built saw mill) with my roasting process and you are sure to have a stable neck for generations. I'm working a little video which describes how I saw my guitar neck blanks. Once you see that you will understand how I get perfect q-sawn grain every-time and the effort that goes into making every music part. I only saw logs for one purpose and that is to make musical instrument parts.
> HadesRoastedMap


Do you have a physical shop in Halifax? I spend a good amount of time in hardwood stores lately and another one wouldn't hurt haha


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## HadesRoastedMap (Dec 5, 2013)

Yes I'm in Fall River, not far from the Halifax airport. Just built a new workshop last year, 28 x 24, two story. Real happy with it. Nice to have room and a heat pump for air conditioning in the summer. Mind you the building for my saw mill is not air conditioned :-(


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## Tony65x55 (Mar 7, 2012)

I have a Partscaster I built with a roasted maple neck with an ebony fretboard. It seems to be very stable but truthfully I bought the neck because I love ebony boards and the roasted maple looked wonderful.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Tony65x55 said:


> I have a Partscaster I built with a roasted maple neck with an ebony fretboard. It seems to be very stable but truthfully I bought the neck because *I love ebony boards and the roasted maple looked wonderful.*


I'll bet that is a great looking combination that feels wonderful to play!


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## Tony65x55 (Mar 7, 2012)

greco said:


> I'll bet that is a great looking combination that feels wonderful to play!


Yes, thanks. You're right on both counts. I would do it again.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

Im posting this just in case anybody is convinced that the choice is of materials used to build an electric guitar have absolutely no affect on tone.

To support your claim please provide a link to any other possible configuration of a bolt neck guitar that sounds like this.
If you can show evidence of a wooden, bolt neck electric guitar that sounds like this, I don't care what pickups are used, then and only then will you have earned the right to "call bullshit" on the tone wood debate.
If you can't then eat crow.

Oh, and by the way, there's no arguing the apples/oranges thing.
If the difference in mass, density, stiffness, stability, hardness, etc. between wood and cinder can affect tone dramatically then you're going to have to shoulder a second burden of proof as to why different woods shouldn't affect tone as well since they also have differences in hardness, density, etc. Less dramatic though they may be.

Consider this a double dare challenge.

You prove me wrong with actual evidence?
I will eat crow and forever hold my peace.
If you can't? Then you know what you have to do.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

BMW-KTM said:


> Im posting this just in case anybody is convinced that the choice is of materials used to build an electric guitar have absolutely no affect on tone.
> 
> To support your claim please provide a link to any other possible configuration of a bolt neck guitar that sounds like this.
> If you can show evidence of a wooden, bolt neck electric guitar that sounds like this, I don't care what pickups are used, then and only then will you have earned the right to "call bullshit" on the tone wood debate.
> ...


I don't think that video serves as an real evidence because its such a gross exaggeration.
it merely answers "do dissimilar materials have an impact on tone"?
but that's not really what ppl are concerned with.

The real debate, IMO is a question that leads to other questions.
1) do different woods have different tonal qualities?
2) if so, are they perceptible to the listener?
3a)if so, can those differences be negated with a turn of a knob on an amp?
3b)is there a "quality" related to any differences, or are they just different?
3c)does the magnitude of such differences justify a correlation to the dollar value associated with certain materials?
3d)how do other factors affect these differences eg guitar shape, bridge, weight, setup, skill of manufacturer, variances between woods even within the same wood type?
4)probably some other things I haven't thought of....

so, I'm not sure a cinder block analogy from someone selling gear adds much value here.

the video id like to see is one where the reviewer has 10 or so planks of wood, different types as well as a few of the same type, has a blind player play through the same amp (or none), _removes all the hardware, puts it in the next plank, set up exactly as previous "guitar",_ repeats. doesn't even turn off the amp. And for shits and giggles, after the first pass, _someone plays with the eq/dials to TRY to make them sound the same (would you spend $7000 for a tonewood work of art that a twist of a dial or 2 on a $124. value village model can sound similar to?)_.
Nobody is going to do this, theres more to risk than there is to gain, but wth, consider it a double dare challenge


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

It adds ALL the value because the people who deny the validity of tone wood always say it's either all in the pickups or it's a combination of pickups and the way it is constructed, like bolt neck vs set neck.

The video proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that what the guitar is made of affects tone.
Once that is established as a fact, which it now has been, the tone wood debate is over.


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## Eric Plante (Mar 8, 2017)

BMW-KTM,

Well technically speaking I guess you are right. But I do believe concrete body is a bit...extrem! In real life we all have guitar bodies made of wood.
Wood for wood is not that black vs white than say wood for concrete. More Grey shades and a lot less extrem...

I have 4 guitars and there bodies are all made of different woods. I highly suspect the body style (solid, semi-hollow and hollow)
is a lot more influencial on the tone than the wood itself. Also, many players forget to take in consideration the neck in the tone (mostly for sustain) and the scale lenght.

Curious, watch this:
Electric guitar body TONEWOOD - Myth or Fact? Judge for yourself here! » YouTube





Cheers!


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

Thank you for acknowledging I am correct.

Yes, indeed.
It is a very extreme example.
It has to be extreme or many know-it-alls would simply refuse to pay attention.
Of course the choice of wood has a very small affect on tone.
Very small, indeed.
I don't think I've ever heard anybody say otherwise.
Of course the type of guitar and pickups have a much greater affect on tone.
Of course.

BUT

The difference between woods is NOT non-existant.
It does exist and just because somebody can't hear it or doesn't like it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
That's all I'm saying.

The differences are due to things like hardness, mass, density, stiffness, wetness, dryness, etc.
Lots of things.
Those differences do exist and they are part of the list of properties of the material used to build the guitar.
The video shows the material used has an affect on tone.
Might be a small difference, when you're talking about wood species.
Might be a big difference, when you're talking about stone versus cellulose.

The problem is we get people who think they know better, poo-poohing established and corroborated knowledge like they're the smart ones with the 'new knowledge' and those who don't agree with their narrative are all idiots and stuck in the stone age.
Fuck that shit.


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## Prsman (Feb 13, 2016)

My luke III has a roasted neck....loves it.

By far the most stable guitar i've ever owned.

Looks some sweet, eh?


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

But what about thermally modified wood!
Musical Instrument Components


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