# Gretsch Guitars Seem Hard To Sell, Why ?



## Boyce Philips (Sep 12, 2021)

My G5620T CB has been up for a while on various sites and although there have been hundreds of views, no takers. It is not just my guitar I'm talking about, a lot of Gretschs seem to take a loooong time to move.

Any thoughts as to why they seem to not be very appealing to most ?


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## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

Quick, name a current star playing one.

Always been under the radar it seems. Although there was that George fella in the Beatles band. Sales of Country Gents went through the roof. Gretsch couldn’t keep up with demand.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

The nice ones are very expensive or I'd own a Falcon by now - even the Duffy sig is out of reach for me. The non USA ones (electromatics, especially the solidbodies) are affordable-ish (at least used) but on the high side for comparable stuff made in the same Asian factories. 

Still kicking myself for not scraping something together to buy that White Falcon in a Church St pawn shop in the 90s. I think it was there for a while too.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Weird scale length (24.6), too many complications (bigsby), affordable models use some weird woods (nato fretboard), three volumes and one tone on the archtops, US made models super expensive, rockabilly is dead, cheap filtertrons on imports don't sound awesome. I've owned three and keep wanting to like them, but can't. Figure 50% depreciation if your used guitar is not USA / Japan made and in perfect condition.

They sure are pretty though.


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

They are a niche guitar
Odd appointments - the controls on Fenders and Gibsons are much more intuitive
They are expensive for offshore guitars (A US-made Gibson is comparable to a Japanese-made Gretsch)
The branding is complex - numbered models with a lot of configurations
Any signature sound they might have is associated with the past (rockabilly, Buffalo Springfield, etc)
Despite all that, I have two prolines, don’t play rockabilly, and many of my favourite players have used one at some key point or another.


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## Boyce Philips (Sep 12, 2021)

Those are some great points.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I was surprised to see all three of these guys playing Gretsch guitars.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

BlueRocker said:


> Weird scale length (24.6), too many complications (bigsby), affordable models use some weird woods (nato fretboard), three volumes and one tone on the archtops, US made models super expensive, rockabilly is dead, cheap filtertrons on imports don't sound awesome. I've owned three and keep wanting to like them, but can't. Figure 50% depreciation if your used guitar is not USA / Japan made and in perfect condition.
> 
> They sure are pretty though.


Rockabilly never die!


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Okay Player said:


> Rockabilly never die!


I knew someone would bring up fake news!


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

It took me a long time to unload my '62 Corvette for way below market value.
It was a player mind you.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

For me I was never a fan of the older big electromatic headstocks. For the newer ones I find people are just asking to much. I was looking for a 5622 but at the time couldn’t find anything reasonably priced. They were all essentially save the tax and $50 bucks.


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

jfk911 said:


> For me I was never a fan of the older big electromatic headstocks. For the newer ones I find people are just asking to much. I was looking for a 5622 but at the time couldn’t find anything reasonably priced. They were all essentially save the tax and $50 bucks.


Totally agree with all of this! With a bit of patience, I’ve been able to find prolines for close to some of these inflated 5xxx prices. Also, sometimes modded 5-series models come up at good prices. Recently there was one here with all the ideal mods done (proper Bigsby, TVJones pickups, truarc bridge), all for what some people ask for an unmodded specimen.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

I got at least one guitar from all major builders... except Gretsch ! :-/
i guess I am not alone...


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

Jalexander said:


> Totally agree with all of this! With a bit of patience, I’ve been able to find prolines for close to some of these inflated 5xxx prices. Also, sometimes modded 5-series models come up at good prices. Recently there was one here with all the ideal mods done (proper Bigsby, TVJones pickups, truarc bridge), all for what some people ask for an unmodded specimen.


On the flip side I’ve seen people swap the B70 for a B7 swap the filtertrons with TV Jones or something along those lines and list the guitar for $1500. The ad will say the bridge and pickups are worth $700 alone and then the guitar sits there for months and months.


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

jfk911 said:


> On the flip side I’ve seen people swap the B70 for a B7 swap the filtertrons with TV Jones or something along those lines and list the guitar for $1500. The ad will say the bridge and pickups are worth $700 alone and then the guitar sits there for months and months.


And they’re not wrong about what those things cost new, but the market rarely values mods to a guitar. Probably moreso with Gretsches. I have a Squier Jazzmaster that I’ve done a few mods to. If I ever sell it, the expensive aftermarket bridge is coming out and being sold separately.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

They are not niche at all. In fact they are on a billion recordings for the simple reason that they sound cool and cut through a mix beautifully. If you listen to music every day you probably hear a Gretsch every day. 
Most people naturally gravitate to Gibson and fender because the designs are commonplace and simple to use. The sound is obvious- Fender single coil and Gibson humbuckers. Gretsch guitars occupy a different and less obvious field of sound. Filtertrons are humbuckers but with more chime. Dynasonics are single coils are are somewhat tele like but more scooped and open. They sound excellent. 
Playing them takes some getting use to though. Short scale, lots of "controls" that are maybe more tradition than necessary. 
The budget Electromatics etc are just typical of all cheap mass produced guitars- bad parts, poor fretwork, crappy dead sounding pickups. They are also much more prone to rattles and buzzes. Japanese and American Gretsch guitars are mostly excellent though.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

Jalexander said:


> And they’re not wrong about what those things cost new, but the market rarely values mods to a guitar. Probably moreso with Gretsches. I have a Squier Jazzmaster that I’ve done a few mods to. If I ever sell it, the expensive aftermarket bridge is coming out and being sold separately.


100% that's what they cost new, however when modding a guitar you will be lucky to even get close to 50% of the value. I just sold a guitar that I put a B5 and a vibramate on, however when I sold it I took it off as I could get $250 used for the pair or add $100 bucks to the guitar. Case in point I was offered a 5622 in a trade with TV jones and no case and he wanted my guitar straight up with my case and wanted the B5 and vibramate. My guitar was selling for $1300 on Reverb and the 5622 sells used for lets say $900, needless to say that never went through.


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

zztomato said:


> They are not niche at all. In fact they are on a billion recordings for the simple reason that they sound cool and cut through a mix beautifully. If you listen to music every day you probably hear a Gretsch every day.
> Most people naturally gravitate to Gibson and fender because the designs are commonplace and simple to use. The sound is obvious- Fender single coil and Gibson humbuckers. Gretsch guitars occupy a different and less obvious field of sound. Filtertrons are humbuckers but with more chime. Dynasonics are single coils are are somewhat tele like but more scooped and open. They sound excellent.
> Playing them takes some getting use to though. Short scale, lots of "controls" that are maybe more tradition than necessary.
> The budget Electromatics etc are just typical of all cheap mass produced guitars- bad parts, poor fretwork, crappy dead sounding pickups. They are also much more prone to rattles and buzzes. Japanese and American Gretsch guitars are mostly excellent though.


By niche, I was referring to the generic models of business strategy which are either broad or narrow in scope and source competitive advantage based on cost focus or differentiation focus.

There are a few brands that focus on cost only. Think knock off brands like Tokai.

But most of the majors do both. They have some lines that focus on cost (Squier, Epiphone, Electromatic). But their larger strategy is differentiation. Fender and Gibson have distinct offerings, roughly single coils vs humbuckers. Likewise in the acoustic market, Martin vs Gibson have some trademark differences in their offerings and sometimes another player comes along like Taylor with another differentiated product.

So some examples of the four strategies:

*Broad/price: *the big brands’ value offerings (Squier, etc)
Broad/differentiation: Fender, Gibson, Martin, Taylor
Narrow/price: not many here… but maybe something like Eastman, and arguably Gretsch Electromatics
Narrow/differentiation: think of high end brands like Collings
So where does Gretsch fit? It’s hard to get financials because most of these aren’t publicly traded companies. Yamaha is and they report their competitors to be Fender, Gibson, Taylor, and Martin. These are the “broad” players looking to grab the bulk of the market.

Fender reported $700m sales last year. Gretsch has somewhere in the neighborhood of $10m in sales. That figure may be a difficult measure because of their agreement with Fender, so it could be higher with some reported in Fender’s sales.

However, I think it’s safe to say that apart from a boom when the Beatles hit the Ed Sullivan stage, they are targeting a much smaller part of the market than the broad players. Their player series is an attempt to soften out some of the weird features that their current market loves, in an attempt to reach a broader market, but they have a long way to go.

So I’d say their 2-5 series hit a narrow/price strategy and their 6 and custom series hit a narrow/differentiation strategy. Both of these are “niche” strategies.


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## Boyce Philips (Sep 12, 2021)

I had read that the Korean built Gretsch were a better quality than the later Chinese builds, is that true ? I have not been able to find any of the usual oversights on my MIK.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

DaddyDog said:


> Quick, name a current star playing one.
> 
> Always been under the radar it seems. Although there was that George fella in the Beatles band. Sales of Country Gents went through the roof. Gretsch couldn’t keep up with demand.


I'm sure they have caught up by now... 

Billy Duffy, Brian Setzer, Greg Keelor (when he played electric that is) John Frusciante, and this guy!!!


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

Boyce Philips said:


> I had read that the Korean built Gretsch were a better quality than the later Chinese builds, is that true ? I have not been able to find any of the usual oversights on my MIK.


The Korean builds have a good reputation. If I’m not mistaken, they’ve never been replaced with Chinese builds. I think there are four basic levels:

2-series (streamliner) - made in China
5-series (electromatic) - made in Korea
6-series (proline) - made in Japan
Custom shop - made in US
However, as discussed above, the 5-series often get upgraded with new bridges, electronics, pickups and/or Bigsby.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Jalexander said:


> The Korean builds have a good reputation. If I’m not mistaken, they’ve never been replaced with Chinese builds. I think there are four basic levels:
> 
> 2-series (streamliner) - made in China
> 5-series (electromatic) - made in Korea
> ...


I can attest to that.


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## Dove37 (Jan 21, 2018)

DaddyDog said:


> Quick, name a current star playing one.
> 
> Always been under the radar it seems. Although there was that George fella in the Beatles band. Sales of Country Gents went through the roof. Gretsch couldn’t keep up with demand.


Glad I’m not selling….


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## Boyce Philips (Sep 12, 2021)

Thank you ladies and gentlemen, you have solved the mystery. Cheers ! Rock On BTW.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

zztomato said:


> They are not niche at all. In fact they are on a billion recordings for the simple reason that they sound cool and cut through a mix beautifully. If you listen to music every day you probably hear a Gretsch every day.


They might not be niche guitars to pros, but they are to the average player.

Hell even here it will be a minority of the membership that owns one, and this place is populated by gear whores and junkies.




> The budget Electromatics etc are just typical of all cheap mass produced guitars- bad parts, poor fretwork, crappy dead sounding pickups. They are also much more prone to rattles and buzzes. Japanese and American Gretsch guitars are mostly excellent though.



There are excellent Electromatics out there. I bought this one and absolutely love it. The fit and finish on it are excellent, and I liked it better than some models that were double the price.


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## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

Dove37 said:


> Glad I’m not selling….
> View attachment 382590


I recognize that amp


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

colchar said:


> There are excellent Electromatics out there. I bought this one and absolutely love it. The fit and finish on it are excellent, and I liked it better than some models that were double the price.


Fair enough. I only see the problem ones, of course.

They are quite popular.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I'm surprised @GTmaker hasn't commented in this thread. He is a Gretsch enthusiast.


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## Boyce Philips (Sep 12, 2021)

All this great discussion as Randy Bachman finds his long lost Gretsch !


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Jalexander said:


> Any signature sound they might have is associated with the past (rockabilly, Buffalo Springfield, etc)


Not meaning picking on you because a few people have said this, but I disagree.

You also can't ignore the lasting legacy (and now older more afluent fans who can afford Gretsches) of bands like The Cult (Duffy was in Theatre of Hate before that rocking the same Falcon), The Cramps, Rancid, and Depeche Mode to just name a few more. It's a specific tone, sure, but not niche in the sense of being limited to a few dead genres as people are implying - that's a wide range we have already. Also you can't ignore the underground; Rockabilly (and it's many offspring) are far from dead, and you can't ignore the Gretsch/Filtertron sound as the other surf guitar (see Shadowy Men from a Shadowy Planet; who granted resisted the surf label, but admitted to it later). I just recorded a band featuring a Gretsch (semi)hollowbody, kinda barngoth (countryish gothic rock).

Being a niche is often a benefit to a guitar company's sales vs you know, more Teles and (super)Strats and LPish things. The issue really comes down to the other points you, and others, made - mostly expense especially with regards to comparable alternatives. I mean putting a filtertron in Tele neck position is a huge thing - there is appeal, most of us just can't afford it.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

Boyce Philips said:


> I had read that the Korean built Gretsch were a better quality than the later Chinese builds, is that true ? I have not been able to find any of the usual oversights on my MIK.


That is the general consensus, however I would now argue some of the newer Chinese Gretsch (Any Electromatic Pro Jet or Semi hollow) quality is fantastic and just as good. I was a bit of Country of origin snob, but while Les Paul shopping I picked up a 5227 double cut away pro jet that caught my eye. I was absolutely floored by the quality fit finish and sound that I bought it shortly after, This was only my third guitar that I bought brand new. The wiring, switches and pots suck but that's really any Korean/Indonesian/Chinese guitar.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

Jalexander said:


> The Korean builds have a good reputation. If I’m not mistaken, they’ve never been replaced with Chinese builds. I think there are four basic levels:
> 
> 2-series (streamliner) - made in China
> 5-series (electromatic) - made in Korea
> ...


Not all Electromatics or 5 Series are made in Korea, Only their hollowbodies are so your 5410, 5420, 5422. Your 5622, 5655 and 52xx are all made in China


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

Granny Gremlin said:


> You also can't ignore the lasting legacy (and now older more afluent fans who can afford Gretsches) of bands like The Cult (Duffy was in Theatre of Hate before that rocking the same Falcon), The Cramps, Rancid, and Depeche Mode to just name a few more. It's a specific tone, sure, but not niche in the sense of be


That’s very much been my path to Gretsch. Edge in the Pride video with a White Falcon. Martin Gore. Greg Keelor. Andrew Scott from Sloan (who was inspired by Setzer but doesn’t play rockabilly). Even more recently Adam from War on Drugs.
Having hung out around Gretsch players in recent years, though, there’s a disproportionate number of 50s rockabilly lovers.

But, hey, I bought my number 1 - a tele - because Robert Smith played one on InOrange!


jfk911 said:


> I was a bit of Country of origin snob, but while Les Paul shopping I picked up a 5227 double cut away pro jet that caught my eye.


Gretsch cured me of my country snobbery. My 6122 was my first non-North American guitar and it’s a thing of beauty. I’ve since bought fancier (a Collings acoustic) and cheaper (a Squier Jazzmaster for $150). A good guitar is good if it inspires you to play and have fun.


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

player99 said:


> I was surprised to see all three of these guys playing Gretsch guitars.


The blond isn’t a Gretsch









I almost want to say some obscure guitar model . The inlays and head stock reminds me of oldGibson or epiphone


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

Gretsch is actually fairly uncommon these days and the sad thing is that Gretsch announced to the public a few years back that the electromatic line sells more than the high end stuff . And in a since the electromatics are a more playable guitar than the vintage reissue due to the different neck construction. It’s also really easy to mod a lower end Gretsch and you’ll end up with a guitar that outplays the country gent and falcon due to the oversized heel they possess. In the recent years they the started the player lineup that get rid of that heel and they practically got rid of there USA models besides one the 55 white falcon reissue. The biggest problem is they don’t have their own custom shop they are actually done at the fender custom shop so you get fenders greasy palms over a beautiful guitar only to destroy what they once were.

and for resale it’s Gibson ,Martin or fender. Anything else is looked at as an oddity


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## Dove37 (Jan 21, 2018)

silvertonebetty said:


> Gretsch is actually fairly uncommon these days and the sad thing is that Gretsch announced to the public a few years back that the electromatic line sells more than the high end stuff . And in a since the electromatics are a more playable guitar than the vintage reissue due to the different neck construction. It’s also really easy to mod a lower end Gretsch and you’ll end up with a guitar that outplays the country gent and falcon due to the oversized heel they possess. In the recent years they the started the player lineup that get rid of that heel and they practically got rid of there USA models besides one the 55 white falcon reissue. The biggest problem is they don’t have their own custom shop they are actually done at the fender custom shop so you get fenders greasy palms over a beautiful guitar only to destroy what they once were.
> 
> and for resale it’s Gibson ,Martin or fender. Anything else is looked at as an oddity


Especially Suhr….


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

Dove37 said:


> Especially Suhr….


I can’t say I actually heard of any for sale in years


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

silvertonebetty said:


> Gretsch is actually fairly uncommon these days and the sad thing is that Gretsch announced to the public a few years back that the electromatic line sells more than the high end stuff .


What's wrong with admitting that? I bet the same can be said for many manufacturers. I'd love to see the breakdown on MIM vs MIA Fenders.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

jfk911 said:


> Not all Electromatics or 5 Series are made in Korea, Only their hollowbodies are so your 5410, 5420, 5422. Your 5622, 5655 and 52xx are all made in China



My 5420TG Limited Edition (pictured above; link to L&M's webpage below) is made in Korea, not China.









Gretsch Guitars - G5420TG Limited Edition Electromatic '50s Hollow Body Single-Cut with Bigsby and Gold Hardware


Gretsch Guitars - G5420TG Limited Edition Electromatic '50s Hollow Body Single-Cut with Bigsby and Gold Hardware




www.long-mcquade.com






Getting my Gretsch prompted me to move my ES-335, that's how much I like this Gretsch!


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

I've always liked the way Brian Setzer works his Gretsch. In the early 80s he was a small lad and that guitar looked big on him but he sure could swing it with the rest of the Cats:


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## MS41R8 (Sep 26, 2016)

SWLABR said:


> I'm sure they have caught up by now...
> 
> Billy Duffy, Brian Setzer, Greg Keelor (when he played electric that is) John Frusciante, and this guy!!!


Yeah Luke absolutely is a monster player . I think I I’ve watched every single video and heard every song he has out there and he is of the best .

And to add to the list …Dan Auerbach, Jack White , Richard Fortus regularly use Gretsch …as does Billy Gibbons and the Ultra amazing ..Steve Wariner


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

MS41R8 said:


> And to add to the list …Dan Auerbach, *Jack White* , Richard Fortus regularly use Gretsch …as does Billy Gibbons and the Ultra amazing ..Steve Wariner


I forgot about Jack!! Yes, he used one a lot when he first moved on from the White Stripes. The custom one with a built in vocal mic was kinda cool...


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Townshend used a Gretsch on a lot of the most famous Who recordings. Izzy Stradlin and Malcolm Young both played Gretsch guitars, Malcolm exclusively.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

colchar said:


> My 5420TG Limited Edition (pictured above; link to L&M's webpage below) is made in Korea, not China.


The 54XX series which are their hollowbodies are all made in Korea, the 56XX is their centre block series and 52XX is their Jet series and they are made in China


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

jfk911 said:


> The 54XX series which are their hollowbodies are all made in Korea, the 56XX is their centre block series and 52XX is their Jet series and they are made in China


This drives back at the original question. The 54xx guitars are pretty close to the design features of the vintage 61xx hollow body models. That comes with all the Gretsch quirks.

The 56xx have the Gretsch looks but they smooth out the edges. Gibson-esque tail pieces. Centre blocks. And then move production to China to get the price down. All logical moves to shift the brand closer to the mainstream.


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## dmcguire (Oct 9, 2021)

the older gretsches with bigsbys can be pretty bad for losing their tuning, even without using the trem, just going out of tune for a laugh. some of the newer mid-priced ones look great to me, but it feels like a brand that doesn't really have too clear an identity at present. maybe as a previous poster said it just needs a couple of high-profile guitarists to shine a light on them


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

When I sold my Gretsch Electromatic it wasn't on the market more than a day or two. A friend who knew the guitar well snapped it up, and there were other offers immediately. Selling it was stupid, just stupid. Bang for the buck it was hard to beat.


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## MS41R8 (Sep 26, 2016)

To second @Mooh …I too have recently sold a 1959 Gretsch Duo Jet, 1965 Gretsch Country Gentleman, 2005 Gretsch Billy Bo, 1964 Gretsch 6120 and none of these were on the market for more than several days . I had many responses on them right away either for trades or sales.

I do miss everyone of them and only sold only to replace with more (preferably 50’s) Gretschs.

Gretsch are great guitars and for the ones who know how to handle them, get the most out of them and want to look good doing it …..they are perfect .

I have also owned a few Korean “5 series” Gretsch’s over the years and they are generally quite well built and with a few small upgrades can be very Good guitars. I found where they lacked compared to the 6 series is the pickups/tuners/bigsby.


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

MS41R8 said:


> To second @Mooh …I too have recently sold a 1959 Gretsch Duo Jet, 1965 Gretsch Country Gentleman, 2005 Gretsch Billy Bo, 1964 Gretsch 6120 and none of these were on the market for more than several days . I had many responses on them right away either for trades or sales.
> 
> I do miss everyone of them and only sold only to replace with more (preferably 50’s) Gretschs.
> 
> ...


59 duo jet is holy grail territory! I’ve always had a soft spot for the mid 60s 6120s, too, even though collectors prefer the late 50s/early 60s ones.


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## MS41R8 (Sep 26, 2016)

Jalexander said:


> 59 duo jet is holy grail territory! I’ve always had a soft spot for the mid 60s 6120s, too, even though collectors prefer the late 50s/early 60s ones.


The 59 Duo Jet was amazing playing and sounding . I just wanted one with the single coil DeArmonds as it suits my desired style and tone better . Still searching !!! ….Ahem!!! … @tgibson 😂😂

also yep…. the 60’s 6120 double cuts are very nice too and had no complaints with either of the two I had . But I’m too searching for that elusive 50’s one with DeArmonds again


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

MS41R8 said:


> The 59 Duo Jet was amazing playing and sounding . I just wanted one with the single coil DeArmonds as it suits my desired style and tone better . Still searching !!! ….Ahem!!! … @tgibson 😂😂
> 
> also yep…. the 60’s 6120 double cuts are very nice too and had no complaints with either of the two I had . But I’m too searching for that elusive 50’s one with DeArmonds again


Yeah a 59 6120 with the Filtertrons and an earlier Jet with Dyna’s seem to be the classic Gretsch sounds. Of course, I’m leaving out Gents and Falcons and George’s Tenny with Hilos for that Beatles for Sale sound. Which is probably why Gretsch lovers get sucked down the rabbit hole! There are so many cool variants.


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## MS41R8 (Sep 26, 2016)

Jalexander said:


> Yeah a 59 6120 with the Filtertrons and an earlier Jet with Dyna’s seem to be the classic Gretsch sounds. Of course, I’m leaving out Gents and Falcons and George’s Tenny with Hilos for that Beatles for Sale sound. Which is probably why Gretsch lovers get sucked down the rabbit hole! There are so many cool variants.


100% correct ……The Tennessean’s / Annie’s with the Hilo’s are amazing too and not to be discounted…(I’m hunting).

Country Gents too ! I just sold mine a few weeks back but will replace with another soon enough when it comes around ….Looking for a ‘63….. 😂😂 Such a sickness this collecting thing


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

jfk911 said:


> The 54XX series which are their hollowbodies are all made in Korea, the 56XX is their centre block series and 52XX is their Jet series and they are made in China



I completely misread your previous post. I missed the period and doing so changed what (I thought) you were saying.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

MS41R8 said:


> I have also owned a few Korean “5 series” Gretsch’s over the years and they are generally quite well built and with a few small upgrades can be very Good guitars. I found where they lacked compared to the 6 series is the pickups/tuners/bigsby.



New ones, or at least my new one, come with Black Top Filter'Tron pickups. I have no idea where those sit in the Gretsch pickup hierarchy.


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## MS41R8 (Sep 26, 2016)

colchar said:


> New ones, or at least my new one, come with Black Top Filter'Tron pickups. I have no idea where those sit in the Gretsch pickup hierarchy.


I had them in a white/gold Gretsch 5422TG. They weren’t “bad” pickups or anything and would be completely sufficient for most people ….but if you have played the real deal vintage Filtertrons or a nice set of TV Jones ones, there is a noticeable difference for sure …especially for live playing out with a band. I found them just all around flatter with less of a punch, less crisp …(best I can explain).

but still completely useable and giggable


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Who let the Gretsch guys in?


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## tgibson (Sep 11, 2012)

Gretsch guys! Who needs ‘em?


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Jalexander said:


> They are a niche guitar
> Odd appointments - the controls on Fenders and Gibsons are much more intuitive
> They are expensive for offshore guitars (A US-made Gibson is comparable to a Japanese-made Gretsch)
> The branding is complex - numbered models with a lot of configurations
> ...


100% right


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

I’m REALLY late to the thread, I’ve had 3 Gretches that I picked up in trades, a MIK 5120, and a couple of MIC guitars, I think they were Jet variants.

My take:

The pickups were really muddy, the finishes were not as good as some Epiphones I’ve had, and they really didn’t feel good in the hands. I wanted to love them, but really didn’t.

I think the Ibanez Artcore series are a far superior hollow body, especially the early 2000’s models, and they are much cheaper.

In terms of the Jet types, they have a look about them, but I’d want to change the pickups out to TVJones models or something along those lines.

US Gretches are probably night and day different, but I’ve never seen one in the flesh. They are legendary so there’s obviously something there, but I have the feeling that the imports are just riding that branding and reputation.


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

I hate gold appointments on guitars, and Gretsch guitars are, for the most part, too ornate and gaudy looking for my eyes. I had a Tennessee Rose that was nice - more tame in looks, but it was stiff and uninspiring to play. I recently got to try a friend's 5 series in which he swapped the pups for a set of Vineham FT's - that was enlightening. Honestly, that guitar had more resonance and give to it than the Rose I had (2005 model), and those pickups with the amp set at the edge of break-up were beautiful and expressive. Had I not recently picked up a great deal on a 'bucker HB I'd definitely be looking at a Gretsch. 

Isbell certain coaxes some wicked tunes from them, and I saw Darrell Scott playing solo with a White Falcon through a Princeton and it sounded insane.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Boyce Philips said:


> My G5620T CB has been up for a while on various sites and although there have been hundreds of views, no takers. It is not just my guitar I'm talking about, a lot of Gretschs seem to take a loooong time to move.
> 
> Any thoughts as to why they seem to not be very appealing to most ?


Personally, I haven't played a Gretsch yet that I've liked. The neck doesn't do it for me and I found them acoustically inert. I do like their designs and looks though. That being said, Gretsch is one brand I would never buy sight unseen.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Sometime in the mid '70s my parents were invited for dinner with friends and asked me to tag along. Normally I wouldn't have but there was a promise of something interesting. Ends up the host was a pro live TV and radio studio musician with a basement full of cool gear, including two (that I recall) Gretsch guitars that I was invited to play. Me, a snot-nosed teenager drooling over stuff I'd only ever seen in Guitar Player magazine. Even having virtually no point of reference, I was astonished by the tone and playability.

All that to say there's a vast difference between the best Gretsch models and the also-ran models.


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## MS41R8 (Sep 26, 2016)

I spoke earlier in this thread but will update my posts. I own and have owned many Gretsch’s from Vintage to reissue and there have been a few Korean models in there . I will say that the higher end 6 series (Japan) is overall a much better guitar in stock form, they just are. The 2 stock electromatics I owned were gone after very short stays . Weak points are the pickups, tuners, nut and Bigsby compared to the 6 series.

I have found that I “personally” don’t care for the Filtertron sound in Gretsch’s. Just too warm for me and although it’s a great sound …it’s not my style . But I LOVE a Gretsch equipped with The single coil DeArmonds/Hi Lo Trons or Dynasonics…they have a snap and twang to them that is just pure music to my ears…Duane Eddy tones. I play a bunch of 50’s-60’s classic country and Rock so these fit just perfect.

Here is the list of Gretsch’s I own or have owned within the last 6 months . Some are gone ..mostly the ones with Filtertrons.


1959 Gretsch Duo Jet (Black)
1960 Gretsch Double Anniversary (Smoke Green)
1964 Gretsch 6120 x 2 (Western Orange)
1965 Gretsch Country Gentleman (Walnut)
2014 ‘57 Gretsch Duo Jet (George Harrison Reissue) ..Black
2005 Gretsch Billy Bo (Red)
2004 ‘57 Gretsch 6120 (Reissue and is Glorious) …Western Orange
2003 Gretsch 6120 (Brian Setzer) Green
2004 ‘59 Gretsch Duo Jet (Silver Sparkle)
2008 Electromatic 5422 (White with Gold)
2009 ‘59 Reissue Gretsch Double Anniversary (Smoke Green)

Out of all of these …the best in my opinion are the single cut ‘57 Reissue 6120 with Dynasonics and the 1960 Double Anniversary (Single Cut) with Hi-Lo Trons. They just suit me the best

I will try post a video clip of the 6120 if I can find one .


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## MS41R8 (Sep 26, 2016)




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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

The look. It just doesn't do it for me.


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## MS41R8 (Sep 26, 2016)

Derek_T said:


> The look. It just doesn't do it for me.


Yeah for sure not for everyone . I’m a retro guy myself …I love the look of 50’s-60’s fashion, house decor, Cars, guitars etc…and of course the sound of the guitars of that era so they suit me ….but 100% agree they aren’t for everyone.

For example …”myself” I would never own or play a PRS guitar or others of that type. I don’t think they look good whatsoever and just am not attracted to them ….even many Les Paul’s are just so so to me …..but another guy will tell you they are the most beautiful guitar ever created and I’m an idiot …lol ….. It’s all preference for sure ….not saying they aren’t good guitars …just don’t do it for me personally. And that’s what makes the guitar industry so amazing and the massive variety of guitars we all get to enjoy and try .


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

Parabola said:


> I’m REALLY late to the thread, I’ve had 3 Gretches that I picked up in trades, a MIK 5120, and a couple of MIC guitars, I think they were Jet variants.
> 
> My take:
> 
> ...


There’s a sweet spot between the guitars you’ve tried and the US-made options. Since the 90s, and especially since Fender started overseeing production in 2003, the prolines (6xxx models) have been made in Japan and are excellent guitars. The only US-made guitars are hand made custom shop models from Fender’s California master builders and they are $$$$. Also, the 54xx models are better regarded than the 51xx, but often get modded anyway. I look for deals on the Japanese models and have never been unhappy. 



MS41R8 said:


> I spoke earlier in this thread but will update my posts. I own and have owned many Gretsch’s from Vintage to reissue and there have been a few Korean models in there . I will say that the higher end 6 series (Japan) is overall a much better guitar in stock form, they just are. The 2 stock electromatics I owned were gone after very short stays . Weak points are the pickups, tuners, nut and Bigsby compared to the 6 series.
> 
> I have found that I “personally” don’t care for the Filtertron sound in Gretsch’s. Just too warm for me and although it’s a great sound …it’s not my style . But I LOVE a Gretsch equipped with The single coil DeArmonds/Hi Lo Trons or Dynasonics…they have a snap and twang to them that is just pure music to my ears…Duane Eddy tones. I play a bunch of 50’s-60’s classic country and Rock so these fit just perfect.
> 
> ...


My Double Anni with Hilotrons sounds amazing. Why no one talks about these, I’m not sure!


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## MS41R8 (Sep 26, 2016)

Jalexander said:


> My Double Anni with Hilotrons sounds amazing. Why no one talks about these, I’m not sure!


100% agree…..they can twang with the best of them .


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

I'm a fan, I have one, but this is why I probably wont ever buy another one, although I would buy a G6121-1959 if it wasn't discontinued:

Most of them have a short scale [including the 6121].

The old ones need the binding fixed.

The new ones have US prices for a Japanese guitar and the pickups never sound right [try replacing them with Ray Butts]. They mostly don't have vintage specs and hardly any have zero-frets.

The cheap ones are cheap.


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## MS41R8 (Sep 26, 2016)

Hammerhands said:


> I'm a fan, I have one, but this is why I probably wont ever buy another one, although I would buy a G6121-1959 if it wasn't discontinued:
> 
> Most of them have a short scale [including the 6121].
> 
> ...


The 6 series Japanese models are every bit as high quality as anything made in the US . They are made with very high standards and high quality parts . Just like the Fender Japanese made vintage reissue Strats and teles …they are the same high quality as the American Made AVRI series …


The Japanese 6 series reissues for the most part perform better than all my vintage ones I have had, More reliable for sure …I have only had minor minor binding issues with one of my vintage Gretch’s, all the others have been perfect binding.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

So many of my favourite players play them (Billy Zoom from X being a big one). I bought a really nice very upgraded Electromatic about 3 years back hoping to love it. But I just never got a feel for it. My buddy has one of those beautiful looking new double cuts in the natural finish. Same thing.

My Reverend Flatroc is an older model with their filtertrons, and a chambered mahogany body and spruce top. But it has a fender scale neck and a Les Trem. I love it. I get basically the same tones, but I love the feel.

But beyond that, the higher end models are pricey and the Electromatic are just never that hard to find used.


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## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

Derek_T said:


> The look. It just doesn't do it for me.


Looks alright to me ;-)


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

Hammerhands said:


> I'm a fan, I have one, but this is why I probably wont ever buy another one, although I would buy a G6121-1959 if it wasn't discontinued:
> 
> Most of them have a short scale [including the 6121].
> 
> ...


I have a 6121-1959 and it’s quite a thing of beauty. I play it less than my 6120 and 6117, in part because it’s so fancy. I’m afraid of scratching it! It does stand out as the only Gretsch with a wider neck.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

DaddyDog said:


> Looks alright to me ;-)
> 
> View attachment 417356
> 
> ...


Poison Ivy, nice.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Boyce Philips said:


> Gretsch Guitars Seem Hard To Sell, Why ?


_Laughs in Rickenbacker..._


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## JRtele (Jul 18, 2021)

I had a white falcon a bit over a year ago. My mom was coming for a visit to see the grandkids and it was being sold in my hometown for a great price.


I wanted to love it. But like everyone has said, I found it awkward and bulky (I mostly play standing). Ended up selling for the same price took a few months.

Also my wife said I looked ridiculous with this gawdy blingy thing. That counts more than anything in our house


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

colchar said:


> What's wrong with admitting that? I bet the same can be said for many manufacturers. I'd love to see the breakdown on MIM vs MIA Fenders.


I'm obviously dealing with a small sample size, but I think there's a reason that my local L&M's fender section is about 60% Squier, 30% MIM and 20% MIA.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

2manyGuitars said:


> _Laughs in Rickenbacker..._


I was thinking of Rickenbacker the other day. I'm kind of surprised they're still around.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Okay Player said:


> I was thinking of Rickenbacker the other day. I'm kind of surprised they're still around.


Because they decided long ago to stay the same successful, niche guitar company that can profitably sell as many guitars as they’re capable of making as opposed to trying to become a worldwide, mega-brand.

They could have different levels of instruments, built in every corner of the world, priced for every budget, but they’re completely content to just keep doing what they’ve always done and make “enough” money. A lot of companies seems to be in an endless pursuit of growing the brand and no amount of sales is ever enough. The guitars seem to be secondary.

Fender is a successful corporation. Rickenbacker is a successful guitar company.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

2manyGuitars said:


> Because they decided long ago to stay the same successful, niche guitar company that can profitably sell as many guitars as they’re capable of making as opposed to trying to become a worldwide, mega-brand.
> 
> They could have different levels of instruments, built in every corner of the world, priced for every budget, but they’re completely content to just keep doing what they’ve always done and make “enough” money. A lot of companies seems to be in an endless pursuit of growing the brand and no amount of sales is ever enough. The guitars seem to be secondary.
> 
> Fender is a successful corporation. Rickenbacker is a successful guitar company.


That seems like a reasonable explanation. So that can't be it


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

2manyGuitars said:


> Because they decided long ago to stay the same successful, niche guitar company that can profitably sell as many guitars as they’re capable of making as opposed to trying to become a worldwide, mega-brand.
> 
> They could have different levels of instruments, built in every corner of the world, priced for every budget, but they’re completely content to just keep doing what they’ve always done and make “enough” money. A lot of companies seems to be in an endless pursuit of growing the brand and no amount of sales is ever enough. The guitars seem to be secondary.
> 
> Fender is a successful corporation. Rickenbacker is a successful guitar company.


This is so very true of so many a thing and a concept I wish more companies would take. The endless pursuit of "growth" has been the decline of all things in my humble opinion. It just so happens in this instance it relates to guitars.


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

2manyGuitars said:


> Because they decided long ago to stay the same successful, niche guitar company that can profitably sell as many guitars as they’re capable of making as opposed to trying to become a worldwide, mega-brand.
> 
> They could have different levels of instruments, built in every corner of the world, priced for every budget, but they’re completely content to just keep doing what they’ve always done and make “enough” money. A lot of companies seems to be in an endless pursuit of growing the brand and no amount of sales is ever enough. The guitars seem to be secondary.
> 
> Fender is a successful corporation. Rickenbacker is a successful guitar company.


This is the essential difference between a publicly-traded company and a privately held one. If you’re publicly traded, there’s an expectation that, not only will you be big, but that you will see year-over-year growth. So where a privately held company can do whatever the owners feel like, assuming they remain profitable, not so with a publicly traded one. The managers of those companies have to drive growth to keep the shareholders happy - and the shareholders generally have no interest in or passion for the products/services. They just want a return on their investment.

Gibson, of course, is publicly traded. Fender, interestingly, is not, although it behaves like it is, and I believe they are on the way to an IPO.

But a company like Ric can grow or not grow at their own pace. Want to stay true to the original ideal? Just keep making them in the US in small quantities. Reach a wider audience? Work with an offshore manufacturer to get a price-quality balance that works for you.

Of course, the bigger challenge in most industries like this is access to retail. Big manufacturers are increasingly wedging out mom and pops, and even small chains. To be an authorized retailer (whether its guitars or farm equipment or whatever), you have to stock lots of inventory. As the chains get bigger, they also don’t want to work with smaller brands with limited models, price points, etc.

Then you wind up with a smaller and smaller group of small stores selling the niche brands at high price points. It’s a bit of a vicious circle.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Jalexander said:


> This is the essential difference between a publicly-traded company and a privately held one. If you’re publicly traded, there’s an expectation that, not only will you be big, but that you will see year-over-year growth. So where a privately held company can do whatever the owners feel like, assuming they remain profitable, not so with a publicly traded one. The managers of those companies have to drive growth to keep the shareholders happy - and the shareholders generally have no interest in or passion for the products/services. They just want a return on their investment.
> 
> Gibson, of course, is publicly traded. Fender, interestingly, is not, although it behaves like it is, and I believe they are on the way to an IPO.
> 
> ...


Ric seems to make enough stock for Guitar Center, Sweetwater, even L&M. There are lots of stores that seem to carry them. Mind you, for certain models and colours, if you ordered one today, you might get it for Christmas of 2023. If you have one of those to sell, you might get more for it than a new one.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

It's been my observation that a Ric does not hold it's value very well. Kind of like a Rivera amp. Expensive to buy new. Not much resale value.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

BMW-KTM said:


> It's been my observation that a Ric does not hold it's value very well. Kind of like a Rivera amp. Expensive to buy new. Not much resale value.


Yeah, I see a lot of 330 and 360 hollow bodies listed with prices all over the map. Sales are hit and miss.

I’m lucky enough to own one of those models that, yeah, there’s not a huge demand for, but there’s an even smaller supply.

Not getting rid of it in any case.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

2manyGuitars said:


> Yeah, I see a lot of 330 and 360 hollow bodies listed with prices all over the map. Sales are hit and miss.
> 
> I’m lucky enough to own one of those models that, yeah, there’s not a huge demand for, but there’s an even smaller supply.
> 
> ...


I put Ricbuckers in mine


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## MS41R8 (Sep 26, 2016)

Update to the thread…. Added this a few months back :

1956 Gretsch 6120🙏🏼


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