# Avoid member whiskeyfingers in Grande Prairie - scam artist



## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

A follow-up on this thread I started last week. I can now say that I was defrauded for $400 by this member. I wasn't 100% sure about it when I opened the thread and that's one of his key tactics : he will always leave you in doubt. More below.

He seems to be targeting WTB ads so be careful out there. He will send you very friendly PMs and emails to put you in total confidence. Scott has banned him, but he may be back under another username. I cannot post details like his name, email, phone number or picture here but I have them. You can PM me.

All I wanted was a MIM Standard Strat...

*Correspondance excerpts*

*May 2*

WF - _What is your price range? Are you into black or white? I have a white with maple and a black with rosewood._

O7 - How about $400? That seems to be the market price for a mint one, shipped.

WF - _Hey Philippe, Thats what I was looking to get for it shipped. $400.00. It Comes with a gigbag. It's clean, was hardly ever played. Bought new in 2013 and was used very little. I'll send pics! _

WF - _Hey Phillippe, The black one still has the plastic on the pickguard. It was literally played 20 minutes tops. No fretwear, dings, etc. The white one hasn't been played much either, it has no dings either. It does have average wear on the pick guard however. No rash or dents on either. Both have been stored in gig bags in my studio. The black one I bought for my exgirlfriend but she wasn't interested. Hence EX haha._

*May 5*

O7 - Doesn't look bad. Ideally I would love a black strat with maple board.

WF - _I can swap necks for you. I'm a luthier by trade._

O7 - Great so you can swap necks with no issue, guaranteed? What's your Paypal?

WF - _Absolutely I can do that. There won't be any issues! I have to setup a paypal or something. I've never used it before haha. I was always a wire transfer or email money transfer guy._

WF - _I can give you my phone number etc to make you feel more confident. What gauge of strings do you like dude? If you want to go etransfer route, my email is *** My phone number is ***_

WF - _Yeah man, $400. Black strat with maple neck in a gig bag shipped. A fresh setup and big boy 10-46's haha! Sounds good to me Phil! Ps, the handle Ph. Is awesome!_

*May 6*

O7 - Just sent the funds. Can you ship Canada Post?

WF - _Hey Phil, I usually ship with FedEx but do you prefer canada post? I'll send you pictures of it with the neck switched over etc as well as your tracking number!_

O7 - If there is no extra cost or hassle on your side yes I prefer Canada Post.

WF - _No problem Phil! I have to get my girlfriend to accept the money. So it'll show up as Kayla *** accepting the money. Just giving you a heads up haha. I'll send pics soon!_

*May 9*

O7 - Just curious any estimate as to when you will be able to ship the strat? 

WF - _Hey Phil! I have it ready, but before I send it I wanted to final adjust the intonation and action. I will have it shipped expedite Monday! _

O7 - Please let me know the tracking when you have it.

*May 13*

O7 - Any update on shipping? Can you let me know the tracking number please?

*May 16*

O7 - I am a bit worried here. I would like to hear from you.

WF - _I had to take off out of town for a family emergency, I just got back to service area! I'll send you your tracking number tomorrow, as I have the receipt in my car and it's with my girlfriend! Give me a call if you would like Phil! Sorry for the hold up_

*In the meantime*

I am contacted by another member who read my thread and we realise we are both dealing with the same member for WTB ads. He too has a bad feeling about it.

So I am starting to see red flags. First thing I notice - and I should have checked before - the images he sent me that "he just took" of the strats are from Kijiji ads. Second why have his girlfriend accept the EMT? Third if he is a luthier why doesn't his name show up as such in a Google search? Fourth why is it so complicated to send a tracking, the one that stayed in his car that's with his girlfriend. Fifth out of service area? I know AB can have very remote places but the cell coverage map shows that you have to be real deep in the woods to have no signal. Sixth a search on his phone number shows a Kijiji ad for heat pump installation services in PEI - he is in AB - saying you have to send $1000 "to secure the amazing deal". Etc.

The other member gets in touch with him and I am guessing freaks him out a bit because...

*Correspondance excerpts (continued)*

*May 16*

WF - _Hey Phil, I don't know what you and *** have decided on the outcome of this but I will be returning your money Tuesday and you can send the guitar back when it arrives. Thanks_

O7 - OK. I will wait for your refund on Tuesday. If the guitar arrives and is as described I will send you the money again. Hope you understand my feelings. $400 is a lot of money for me.

WF - _Completely understand the feeling Phil! $400 bucks is not easy to come by. I'm going to get tracking numbers sent your way tonight! Thanks Phil _

*May 17*

O7 - I've lost trust. We'll do as you said "I will be returning your money Tuesday and you can send the guitar back when it arrives." If I don't have my money back latest on Tuesday I'll report fraud.

WF - _I'll have your money returned Tuesday. I've got to get to the bank Tuesday. I'll trust you will return the guitar upon it's arrival._

*May 19*

O7 - Will do. What's your address so I can ship it back asap? And I'm waiting for my refund TODAY.

WF - _Yes. Address is on the box. I'm going into the bank this afternoon._

WF - _Did you contact the bank on Saturday or Friday? Because *** said he didn't and Now I'm getting a run around at the bank._

O7 - No I did not contact the bank.

WF - _Well you did and now there is going to be a huge process before I can get your money back to you because my girlfriends account is flagged as fraudulant._

WF - _I don't know maybe you can contact the bank and tell them that I'm going to return your money? Because right now they will be contacting you and we will have to submit a bunch of paperwork. _

WF - _Phil man, I'm going to need some contact from you to clear this up. Because as it stands I can't do anything_

O7 - I did contact Interac (NOT the bank) to enquire about buyer protection with IEMT. They asked me details.

WF - _They are telling me I have send off proof of our correspondence and I can't contact them directly. My girlfriends branch is in Charlottetown PEI, scotia bank on St. Peter's road._

*May 20*

O7 - I talked to a friend who works for TD and to my sister-in-law who is a Crown Attorney. You have to find a way to send us our refund. Ask a friend to do EMT for instance. Once refund is received I will contact Interac to mark my case as closed. Refund must be received today by 8:00 PM EST. If not received we will resume reporting.

*So...*

Since I sent him the message above at 8:00 AM this morning I heard nothing. Maybe he had to leave on short notice to rescue a pink gorilla stuck in the melting ice of Lake Louise and he is out of service area again. Anyways he forgot his phone on the magnetic levitation Trans Canada train that he took from Grande Prairie and now the train is on it's way back to PEI.

I'm still without a guitar, less $400, and with a whiskey (middle) finger.

Sorry for the long thread. Stay safe.

- - - Updated - - -

And I would like to thank Scott and the other members who got in touch to offer their help.


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## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

Thanks for warning us !!!!


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## dmc69 (Jan 20, 2011)

Damn, the last time I got scammed on a forum, the seller sounded very similar. I was hoping to avoid Harmony Central (of old) shenanigans on this forum :|


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## Moot (Feb 15, 2009)

That sucks, man.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

Sorry things turned out this way for you. Sucks when A'holes like that muddy the water. Perhaps GC should institute the 100 posts before being allowed to buy/sell rule. At least then people would have to show some degree of community involvement. If all they do is fill 100 posts with random filler that would be an indicator of character. It appears the $20 membership fee isn't enough to deter theaving scumbags.


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## RedVally (Feb 16, 2015)

Thanks for the heads up about this loser.


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## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

RedVally said:


> Thanks for the heads up about this loser.


His username should have been StickyFingers !!!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

As far as cell coverage goes in Alberta, B.C. and Sask. there are a lot of dead areas, some depending who your carrier is and some depending where you are. We carry the cells when we're on road trips on the bikes. Just in case. I changed from Rogers because there were too many dead areas.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

RE: Cell coverage in AB...mini-van broke down on the way to Jasper last summer. We were able to make it to a rest stop along the Yellowhead (Trans-Canada HWY, so not some backwoods range road) and it took me an hour of doing the "can you hear me now" dance to find coverage and even then I had to call AMA back probably 10 times because the call kept getting dropped. Grand Prairie is much further north and much more remote than where I was. Just sayin'...

With that said, I hope things workout for you and that this was just a series of unfortunate events.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Been following this ordeal for a while now. You know, given all the info you have about him..."arrangements" for satisfaction could probably be arranged.


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## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

JBFairthorne said:


> Been following this ordeal for a while now. You know, given all the info you have about him..."arrangements" for satisfaction could probably be arranged.


Thanks for the reply.

I have tried to get a refund and I told him I will report to RCMP, CAFC, banks, cellphone provider... Heck I even know where he works!

No reply other than "man I can't refund you because my girlfriend's account is locked".

If you can share some advice please let me know


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

check online to see what the procedure is to get a judgement through Small Claims Court. You can then garnishee his wages. I don't know if you can go after his girl friend's bank account. Maybe you can if you name her as part of the action.

Years ago, the company I worked for received a garnishee on one of our employees. The guy was pissed, but there was nothing I could do about it, I had to take the money off his pay cheque,or, if I recall correctly, the company would then have been liable for it.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

I too have been following this issue and it initially gave me pause since I was in the process of buying an amp on KiJiJi. I did a facebook search for his email address and found him. His location was consistent with the ad. (Saskatoon). I also found he was a business owner which gave me some confidence as I had the name of his business in case I needed a form of recourse. Fortunately the guy was on the up and up and my amp has arrived. He was very good during the whole deal as well. 

I hope you find some resolution to this issue.


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

I mentioned him on this Facebook Page

https://www.facebook.com/groups/742943905754493/


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## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

dwagar said:


> check online to see what the procedure is to get a judgement through Small Claims Court. You can then garnishee his wages. I don't know if you can go after his girl friend's bank account. Maybe you can if you name her as part of the action.
> 
> Years ago, the company I worked for received a garnishee on one of our employees. The guy was pissed, but there was nothing I could do about it, I had to take the money off his pay cheque,or, if I recall correctly, the company would then have been liable for it.


Thanks. I did not think about Small Claims Court but that's a great idea!


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## Bruiser74 (Jan 29, 2010)

Sorry to hear you are having this problem, and thanks for the heads up.
I got "almost screwed" locally last week and was bitten a couple times before
so I definitely know the feeling. 
I documented EVERYTHING from a previous encounter, handed it over to the police and
it went to court eventually. The judge dismissed it on some stupid technicality and the
police officer in charge, and myself, were obviously very disappointed.
Its a tough thing to go through, and hard to resolve primarily because the police just
don't have enough time or manpower to handle all of these things.
My best advice is keep up the fight, and getting the word out to protect others
is the right thing to do. Thanks for that!
Cheers
B


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Back in the day people would put notices in newspapers. Not too sure about the cost or if they still do that. Other "arrangements" are not cheap. A lot of times the 'payday cash' kind of places also transfer funds from point a to point b. like western union used to do. Not too sure but western union is an option too. If he can get to a bank or a post office then he can send you a draft.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

So if he can't send the refund because the account is locked then why doesn't he just send the guitar? You can choose to keep it because you like it ....... or as security. Anything else is just more deception.

What does strike me as odd is that if he was intending to rip you off in the first place why didn't be just go "dark" after he got the money? Why the continuation? Is it a thrill?


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

He might be buying time to cover tracks.


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## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

allthumbs56 said:


> So if he can't send the refund because the account is locked then why doesn't he just send the guitar? You can choose to keep it because you like it ....... or as security. Anything else is just more deception.
> 
> What does strike me as odd is that if he was intending to rip you off in the first place why didn't be just go "dark" after he got the money? Why the continuation? Is it a thrill?


Well I believe he never owned those guitars in the first place!

As for the continuation I don't know. Maybe to buy time? And he said I hope you ship the guitar back when you receive it? This is all very weird.


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

Either he was stalling to cover his tracks or he was in the process of trying to scam another member and didn't want you blowing the whistle just yet....


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Do you know if the white Strat with the rosewood board is still available? 8D


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Thank you for the heads up. Really disturbs me when you cant trust anyone anymore. Glad you shared your story and it ends well for you.


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

Did whiskey fingers have an iTrader rating? That's the first step I take in my pre-deal due diligence. I've learned that always doesn't weed out the flakes, but it improves your chances of not being outright scammed out of cash or gear.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

I'm gonna laugh if the guitar does show up....


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

gtone said:


> Did whiskey fingers have an iTrader rating? That's the first step I take in my pre-deal due diligence. I've learned that always doesn't weed out the flakes, but it improves your chances of not being outright scammed out of cash or gear.


He had a '0' rating.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

marcos said:


> Thank you for the heads up. Really disturbs me when you cant trust anyone anymore. Glad you shared your story and it ends well for you.


I couldn't have stated it better than Marcos.

@Ocean7: Please consider keeping us updated with any related progress/news.

Cheers

Dave


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

sulphur said:


> Do you know if the white Strat with the rosewood board is still available? 8D


We all needed this injection of comic relief...I hope Ocean7 was able to laugh at it and bring his blood pressure down, even if only for a short time. 

Cheers

Dave


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## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

greco said:


> We all needed this injection of comic relief...I hope Ocean7 was able to laugh at it and bring his blood pressure down, even if only for a short time.


I actually found it quite funny 

Latest news : I got in touch with the guy yesterday and he says he is going to send me a Canada Post money order this morning. I asked Xpresspost, signature required, picture of the MO with my name on it, ASAP. He is still saying that his bank account is frozen. Not sure I am responsible but I said that once the MO is cashed and I have the bills in hand I will contact Interac and his bank to say the issue is resolved as far as I am concerned.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Ocean7 said:


> I actually found it quite funny
> 
> Latest news : I got in touch with the guy yesterday and he says he is going to send me a Canada Post money order this morning. I asked Xpresspost, signature required, picture of the MO with my name on it, ASAP. He is still saying that his bank account is frozen. Not sure I am responsible but I said that once the MO is cashed and I have the bills in hand I will contact Interac and his bank to say the issue is resolved as far as I am concerned.


The fact that he's still communicating with you indicates that he may be more incompetant than dishonest. I'd encourage you to keep trying directly with him to recover the money.

Good luck!


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## RedVally (Feb 16, 2015)

Wouldnt' hold my breathe. The fact that he pulled some pics off the internet of guitars tells me it was a scam right from the get go and not incompetency.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

RedVally said:


> Wouldnt' hold my breathe. The fact that he pulled some pics off the internet of guitars tells me it was a scam right from the get go and not incompetency.


Maybe, but most guys like that disappear like a fart in the wind once they have your cash.

Even if he IS a deliberate scammer, he left too much of a trail, so again....incompentant at very least.

Why would he continue to respond if he had no intention of making this right?


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## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

Milkman said:


> The fact that he's still communicating with you indicates that he may be more incompetant than dishonest. I'd encourage you to keep trying directly with him to recover the money.
> 
> Good luck!


Thanks. Honestly I don't know what to think. On one hand he succeeded in taking my money. 10 years of Internet/forums buy&sell and I didn't see it coming so he is kind of good at what he does. On the other hand he could have gone away with it and stop communicating right after that but he is still emailing me.

Maybe his bank account is frozen for real and maybe I am the only one who can unlock it talking to Interac. Maybe he freaked out a bit because I have enough evidence and documentation to put him into real trouble? 

I'm hoping he mails that CP MO today as he said. I'll keep you posted folks!


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## RedVally (Feb 16, 2015)

Milkman said:


> Why would he continue to respond if he had no intention of making this right?


IMO it's because the guy is an idiot. He seems like an amateur scammer and hopefully that gives Ocean7 some hope.




Ocean7 said:


> Maybe he freaked out a bit because I have enough evidence and documentation to put him into real trouble?



This. Like I said he's an idiot but he does realise he's made mistakes during his "transaction". Having his real name and where he works is good info.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

RedVally said:


> Wouldnt' hold my breathe. _*The fact that he pulled some pics off the internet of guitars tells me it was a scam right from the get go and not incompetency.*_


That may not necessarily be so. He may be lazy, doesn't know how to take good pictures, has a crappy camera/cell phone, less than savvy with posting his own, etc. I have done the same thing before I had a decent camera and I have seen many others so it for the same reason or other reasons.


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## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

Last update for today folks.

The Canada Post money order that he was going to send me "first thing in the morning" with proof of payment, tracking number, and so on, did not happen.

I'm only half surprised.

I know what I do tomorrow "first thing in the morning" if the local police station is open. I have a 60 pages file about this sucker to submit them.

Now... Anybody has a budget strat for sale?

PS Best if you have feedback.

- - - Updated - - -



Steadfastly said:


> That may not necessarily be so. He may be lazy, doesn't know how to take good pictures, has a crappy camera/cell phone, less than savvy with posting his own, etc. I have done the same thing before I had a decent camera and I have seen many others so it for the same reason or other reasons.


Understood. But when you have an iPhone like he does you can take decent pictures just with it.

And you don't say about the Kijiji images that you send "I just took them".


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## RedVally (Feb 16, 2015)

Thanks for the thread anyway man. It's been an eye opener as I've never seen so many excuses from third parties siding with the thief.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Ocean7 said:


> Understood. But when you have an iPhone like he does you can take decent pictures just with it.
> 
> And you don't say about the Kijiji images that you send "I just took them".


Those are valid points.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

So ................................... where is the guitar?


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## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

allthumbs56 said:


> So ................................... where is the guitar?


Nowhere. He did not even own the guitar he "sold" me.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Louis said:


> His username should have been StickyFingers !!!


could always be changed to broken fingers


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Ocean7 said:


> Nowhere. He did not even own the guitar he "sold" me.


[video=youtube;PASYqq4-iD0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PASYqq4-iD0[/video]


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Well, I'm sorry you had this happen to you.

I'm a trusting person. It sucks that there are people with the morals / lack of conscience that would allow them to harm someone, whether a stranger or a friend, for profit.

I'm a firm believer that I should earn or somehow give value for anything I receive.


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## J-75 (Jul 29, 2010)

Milkman said:


> The fact that he's still communicating with you indicates that he may be more incompetant than dishonest. I'd encourage you to keep trying directly with him to recover the money.
> 
> Good luck!


Let's not neglect the fact that _another_ member was also screwed by ol' WF for a pedal deal - Rampant incompetence? I don't think so.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

J-75 said:


> Let's not neglect the fact that _another_ member was also screwed by ol' WF for a pedal deal - Rampant incompetence? I don't think so.


Fair enough.

I wasn't aware. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but yeah, if it has happened more than once.....

Bloody shame.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

This really sucks! I am so sorry that it happened to you! He obviously has no conscience! What a scum bucket!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

He should be named sticky fingers not whiskeyfingers.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> He should be named sticky fingers not whiskeyfingers.


its been done, late to the party



Louis said:


> His username should have been StickyFingers !!!


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

More like Broken Fingers


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

Whiskey Fingers: a five piece band working out of Colorado Springs, you can find them on facebook, reverbnation and youtube. There is also a duo working out of 
Prince George B.C. called Whiskey Fingers and Whiskey Fingers is also a name for a bar tender who shorts you on your drinks. I'm just so full of useless information.

:Smiley-fart::sEm_ImSorry:


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## J-75 (Jul 29, 2010)

Voxguy76 said:


> More like Broken Fingers


Deja-vu all over again, LOL!


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Should call him stickyfingers!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

vadsy said:


> its been done, late to the party


Not the first time.........unfortunately, I'm sure it won't be the last.:smile-new:


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

sulphur said:


> Should call him stickyfingers!















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dmc69 (Jan 20, 2011)

Should call him doigtscollants!


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

dmc69 said:


> Should call him doigtscollants!













Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Slooky (Feb 3, 2015)

Sorry to hear about getting ripped off. I remember a few years back when someone was looking for a rare cd . He said his got stolen from his car. I had the cd so I said I would burn a copy for him. A few months later I noticed the scumbag was Making copies and selling this rare cd on the internet. He made quite a little fortune.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Ocean7 said:


> Nowhere. He did not even own the guitar he "sold" me.


So it was an "Air Guitar"?


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## GWN! (Nov 2, 2014)

I am always leery of posting WTB. I know lots of people have no problems and find what they need by posting a WTB. But it seems to me that when I read about people getting scammed on the multiple forums I belong to the vast majority seem to come from WTB.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I wonder, does he know what it's like to be the bad man, to be the sad man, behind blue eyes.
Does he know what it's like to be hated, to be fated, to telling only lies.


You know all those bumper stickers and postings you see saying "mean people suck"......we found 1 that those were made for.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

Maybe if we are lucky, old whiskeyfingers will be walking down the street and some Police Officer will ask him for ID and he will refuse.........you know the rest of the story.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Since I banned him I hacked into his account and checked out his PM's. He had contacted at least 6 people on here all WTB ads and he informed them that he had the exact guitar they were looking for. So either he has a fabulous guitar collection or he is a thief. I leave the decision up to you fine folks.


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## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Since I banned him I hacked into his account and checked out his PM's. He had contacted at least 6 people on here all WTB ads and he informed them that he had the exact guitar they were looking for. So either he has a fabulous guitar collection or he is a thief. I leave the decision up to you fine folks.


Oh damn what a freakin' ***hole.

I went to the police to report him this afternoon. I am not letting him go.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Since I banned him I hacked into his account and checked out his PM's. He had contacted at least 6 people on here all WTB ads and he informed them that he had the exact guitar they were looking for. So either he has a fabulous guitar collection or he is a thief. I leave the decision up to you fine folks.


What is preventing him from joining again under another name..


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Rick31797 said:


> What is preventing him from joining again under another name..


Nothing really. I blocked his IP but he can always use a computer at another location. if he wants in bad enough he can get back in, not much we can do about that.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Nothing really. I blocked his IP but he can always use a computer at another location. if he wants in bad enough he can get back in, not much we can do about that.


See my suggestion earlier in this thread about a 100 post requirement for access to buy/sell. It may be helpful against these types.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Hamstrung said:


> See my suggestion earlier in this thread about a 100 post requirement for access to buy/sell. It may be helpful against these types.


I will look into it, might not be any parameters for it but will see.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Hamstrung said:


> See my suggestion earlier in this thread about a 100 post requirement for access to buy/sell. It may be helpful against these types.





GuitarsCanada said:


> I will look into it, might not be any parameters for it but will see.


That IMHO is a very good idea. I use Kijiji, eBay or Amazon.com when I purchase things but for those that use the forum here and what losers like slippery fingers do, it would help in some cases, although 100 posts are not that hard to do. Ten characters per post is easy.


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

So I guess it would seem my opinion that he might be stringing you along was so you wouldn't blow the whistle on him as he worked other scams....Geez...I think like a thief..sometimes I scare me.

Am glad you're making the police report.


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

We're not all dirtbags in the GP area. Sorry y'all, I'm embarrassed that this scab claimed to be from my hometown.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> That IMHO is a very good idea. I use Kijiji, eBay or Amazon.com when I purchase things but for those that use the forum here and what losers like slippery fingers do, it would help in some cases, although 100 posts are not that hard to do. Ten characters per post is easy.


At least you could see if the person was posting a lot of "filler" or contributing to the forum. No 100% guarantee but I would think it less likely a scumbag thief would put that much effort in.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

The Ernie Ball forum has a 50 post policy. It was boring as fvck, but I stuck it out to sell my gear. It would be easy enough for a douche to wait it out.

They evaluate your posts too. If you check out whiskeyfingers' posts, they were all decent, so he'd get through.

The thing that should be alarming is his feedback score. This couldn't have happened to me, cause of that. It's unfortunate, but everyone needs their first lesson. I've been there.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

The problem is we have a lot of people that see gear for sale and join to buy it. So blocking them outright will hurt us. Posting gear for sale already requires a paid membership which I think helps a bit because they have to use PayPal and that leaves traces. I know a lot of you dont like paypal but it requires a credit card and I would also check for confirmed addresses. Thats why this guy did not want to use it.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

It seems like a decent idea or a start but it isn't foolproof, some people are here to stay only posting filler. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

GuitarsCanada said:


> The problem is we have a lot of people that see gear for sale and join to buy it. So blocking them outright will hurt us. Posting gear for sale already requires a paid membership which I think helps a bit because they have to use PayPal and that leaves traces. I know a lot of you dont like paypal but it requires a credit card and I would also check for confirmed addresses. Thats why this guy did not want to use it.


That's why I joined, saw a piece of gear I wanted. Funny thing is, I was the buyer using PayPal and I remember getting asked for a reference. That transaction was the start of something bittersweet, amassed a collection and emptied a bank account. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Hamstrung said:


> At least you could see if the person was posting a lot of "filler" or contributing to the forum. No 100% guarantee but I would think it less likely a scumbag thief would put that much effort in.


Yes, it would be less likely. It would depend on how determined he/she was.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Fortunately, most crooks like that are opportunists. They're not interested in waiting it out.



Steadfastly said:


> Yes, it would be less likely. It would depend on how determined he/she was.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Nothing is foolproof, if one is determined enough.

A minimum post count may be a deterent, at least give some content.
As Scott mentioned, it may have a negative affect on the F/S section.

I do feel that trying to protect the active membership, however you can, would be priority no matter the consequences. 
If someone can't wait long enough to get the post count under their belts, maybe they should move on anyway.
You don't want to scare people off, but you don't want scammers either.

At Ztalk, there's a minimum 30 day wait to get into the F/S section, but that's easier to get by than if you had to post.

Maybe some kind of personal info required to respond in the F/S section?


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

I pay to be a member of this forum .

If the day comes when there is an assumption that I am a thief , that's the day that I'll make other arrangements.
As for the idea that I'm going to have to give personal information to a complete stranger.... you can stick that where ther sun dont shine.

G.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I came for the gear


I stayed for the folks


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

GTmaker said:


> I pay to be a member of this forum .
> 
> If the day comes when there is an assumption that I am a thief , that's the day that I'll make other arrangements.
> As for the idea that I'm going to have to give personal information to a complete stranger.... you can stick that where ther sun dont shine.
> ...



I would agree there. The forum itself cannot dictate how the transactions go down. That has to be left up to the individuals themselves. A waiting period woul;d be better than post count. But in the end its buyer beware really. Where there is a will there is a way. So several factors have to be considered when buying and selling. It's a personal choice. I have certain rules that I use. Here it's the feedback system or the persons involvement and length of time they have been here. I tend to not deal with newbs. Just a personal rule.


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## Guest (May 26, 2015)

sulphur said:


> Maybe some kind of personal info required to respond in the F/S section?


registered with admin only. verifiable through a 411.com search?


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I meant that you'd have to prove something to the forum itself, not any member, in order to sell something, in particular.

That's what this mainly pertains to, someone new selling something.
If it's a new member buying, that's not an issue as the cash goes the other way.

Maybe it's up to us, don't buy off of anyone unless they've built a rep, or have bought item(s) to get a feedback rating.
A scammer wouldn't buy anything first.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> ..... A waiting period would be better than post count.


Is this worth a try?

What the negative consequences of a waiting period? 

Cheers

Dave


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

sulphur said:


> I meant that you'd have to prove something to the forum itself, not any member, in order to sell something, in particular.
> 
> That's what this mainly pertains to, someone new selling something.
> If it's a new member buying, that's not an issue as the cash goes the other way.
> ...


If you're going by this, then I couldn't sell something 'cause as far as I know I don't have a rep and my feedback rating is 0. As far as proving something to the forum....see GTmaker's reply.


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## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

greco said:


> Is this worth a try?
> 
> What the negative consequences of a waiting period?
> 
> ...


In this particuliar case that wouldn't work because WF registered last year. He was probably getting ready to screw people here.


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## GWN! (Nov 2, 2014)

There is always risks with Internet transactions. I have seen individuals with 30-40 positives at other sites go rogue and scam a few people in a row before disappearing. I joined this site because of the buy and sell. I am not much on social media and it takes me a long time to accumulate posts. I am not influenced by high numbers of posts w.r.t. a buy or sell transaction. In fact there a few high posters here that I would not deal with based on their posts in the forum.
I try and protect myself as best I can. If a person as no feedback I ask for other sites where they may have some and try and contact them thru that other site. But in the end it is up to me to decide and live with my decision. I have been scammed before but luckily it was small amount.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

greco said:


> Is this worth a try?
> 
> What the negative consequences of a waiting period?
> 
> ...


I would see it as detrimental to sales. I regularly post gear that is listed to the GC Facebook and Twitter accounts and that brings in a fair amount of people for a quick sale. If they have to join and wait a week or whatever they are most likely going to pass or start sending me emails telling me that want to buy so and so item and cant contact the buyer. If you ban outsiders from being able to view the for sale section completely you are hurting yourself big time in terms of trying to sell an item.

The for sale section is by far the most viewed area by visitors. That is only natural and we should want that to continue.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Electraglide said:


> If you're going by this, then I couldn't sell something 'cause as far as I know I don't have a rep and my feedback rating is 0. As far as proving something to the forum....see GTmaker's reply.


In your case I would trust you. You have been here for 5 years with almost 2000 posts. So that carries a lot of weight.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

It seems that the WTB ads are the risky ones. I would think that by avoiding anyone offering to sell, who has neither a rating nor a membership, that one could mitigate the risk considerably. But there will always be some level of risk no matter what you do.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

It really sucks that these guys got burnt by that fvckwad! I'm not much of an ebay/craigslist shopper - I find these dealings require a certain leap-of-faith that I don't take lightly. Sadly, I guess I assume most everyone is a scammer until they prove themselves otherwise. The amount of time people have been here and the involvement they have with the community are the two biggest factors to making any deals for me. I even find the Feedback score can be misleading. Who's to say two people (or one person with two 'personalities') don't sign up, give each other lots of +ve feedback just setting themselves up to scam others? 

Like Electraglide's example. He's been here a long time, I'm pretty sure he is who he says he is and I would give that far more credence than 'I've got 100 happy customers from ebay'. But I'm also from a time when an internet relationship isn't the same as a real relationship. 



GWN! said:


> In fact there a few high posters here that I would not deal with based on their posts in the forum.


.......and if they're deaf as well, just run - run for your life!!!!


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

The big flag for me is no Paypal. And guys that ask for Paypal "gift". I'll pay the extra 2% or 3%, at least I can make a claim back on Paypal if the deal tanks.


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## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

dwagar said:


> The big flag for me is no Paypal. And guys that ask for Paypal "gift". I'll pay the extra 2% or 3%, at least I can make a claim back on Paypal if the deal tanks.


Agreed. That's what I should have done. My mistake. 

Actually I asked him but he said he would have to setup a Paypal account because he did not have one.

That should have raised a big red flag.

By the way folks DO NOT USE EMT because I'm told by Interac that this is just about the same as giving cash to someone. You have no protection whatsoever. I will never use it again, or maybe in the very rare case that I know the seller very well.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

Ocean7 said:


> Agreed. That's what I should have done. My mistake.
> 
> Actually I asked him but he said he would have to setup a Paypal account because he did not have one.
> 
> ...


I agree with the reasoning but I don't use Paypal because I don't like Paypal. If that puts me in the "no trust" category then I get that. Everyone has to feel comfortable in their transactions. When selling (at least so far) I don't offer shipping and require a face to face transaction. That way I know the buyer is accepting the item to their satisfaction at the same time they're paying. I've taken the risk a couple of times purchasing here with EMT but I've only dealt with active members of the forum whom I can gauge by their input to the forum over time. I've had good luck so far. Wouldn't do it for a noob or a non-contributing member unless it's a local, face to face deal.


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## dmc69 (Jan 20, 2011)

All this talk of a minimum post count or waiting period would be moot if people just used regular PayPal for every transaction, except for those they really trust. Even if you trust that person and go EMT, it's still buyer beware. Although I do feel bad for anyone that gets scammed, I don't think Scott has to pay for something that's not his fault by putting in limitations to this site to hurt his sales.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

dmc69 said:


> All this talk of a minimum post count or waiting period would be moot if people just used regular PayPal for every transaction, except for those they really trust. Even if you trust that person and go EMT, it's still buyer beware. Although I do feel bad for anyone that gets scammed, I don't think Scott has to pay for something that's not his fault by putting in limitations to this site to hurt his sales.


Great point, well put.


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## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

dmc69 said:


> All this talk of a minimum post count or waiting period would be moot if people just used regular PayPal for every transaction, except for those they really trust. Even if you trust that person and go EMT, it's still buyer beware. Although I do feel bad for anyone that gets scammed, I don't think Scott has to pay for something that's not his fault by putting in limitations to this site to hurt his sales.


I agree. And I have never held Scott responsible for anything, and I thank him for the help he has provided so far. 

I am not sure a grace period or a post count would help neither. Look... WF registered last year, and it's easy to get up to 30 posts or something in a couple of days. Heck I tripled my post count here just by sharing my story  

That's mostly a buyer/seller beware thing. Everyone should use common sense, just like I did (NOT).


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> In your case I would trust you. You have been here for 5 years with almost 2000 posts. So that carries a lot of weight.


And he's an old guy with a nice bike :smile-new:

Seriously though, it is through activity in the community we feel we know each other and are "friends". Who would jeopardize that for 400 bucks? That's how I see it - I wouldn't want to be ostracized (for anything less than a million, anyway).


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

dmc69 said:


> All this talk of a minimum post count or waiting period would be moot if people just used regular PayPal for every transaction, except for those they really trust. Even if you trust that person and go EMT, it's still buyer beware. Although I do feel bad for anyone that gets scammed, I don't think Scott has to pay for something that's not his fault by putting in limitations to this site to hurt his sales.


It's not my sales I was thinking about. It affects popularity and traffic that much effects the forum overall to some degree. But it's people that are selling that I am thinking of. If we limit it to just paid members or set more conditions the people that do pay to list items are foo g to eventually not bother. It effects the total forum in that regard member wise


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## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

Hamstrung said:


> I've taken the risk a couple of times purchasing here with EMT but I've only dealt with active members of the forum whom I can gauge by their input to the forum over time. I've had good luck so far. Wouldn't do it for a noob or a non-contributing member unless it's a local, face to face deal.


Exactly...every deal that I've done on here has been with members with a long history of selling and posting. Knock on wood, I've had no problems so far and that includes buy, sell and trade deals.

I seem to remember that there was a guy on here burned for thousands of dollars on a historic Les Paul...wonder if it was the same predator i that case.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Wasn't there a guy a few years ago from the east coast ("Ned" or "Nut" something) who actually had a good history and then went rogue?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Electraglide said:


> If you're going by this, then I couldn't sell something 'cause as far as I know I don't have a rep and my feedback rating is 0. As far as proving something to the forum....see GTmaker's reply.


In your case, you've been here long enough that I think people would trust you. If you got rid of your Harleys and bought something decent like a Honda Gold Wing that would give you an A++ rating.:smiley-faces-75:

- - - Updated - - -



GuitarsCanada said:


> I would see it as detrimental to sales. I regularly post gear that is listed to the GC Facebook and Twitter accounts and that brings in a fair amount of people for a quick sale. If they have to join and wait a week or whatever they are most likely going to pass or start sending me emails telling me that want to buy so and so item and cant contact the buyer. If you ban outsiders from being able to view the for sale section completely you are hurting yourself big time in terms of trying to sell an item.
> 
> _*The for sale section is by far the most viewed area by visitors.*_ That is only natural and we should want that to continue.


I find that very interesting. It was at least months before I even looked at that section when I joined. Being relatively new to guitar, I wanted to gain as much insight as possible, so the threads offering knowledge and insight is where I spent my time. I still rarely visit the for sale section.


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## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

i have not been too active on the site.....i have bought and sold a few items and all transactions were smooth.....i have a low post count and few transactions (100% feedback though) come to think about it i think its time to renew my subscription........

i think if i had reservations about dealing with a someone here i would ask him for a reference from another member here.....

sorry to hear about your bad luck "ocean 7" hope things work out.


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## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

i have noticed a few comments where folks visit certain sections of the forum........i check in quite a bit and always go to "what's new".......i find i don't miss out on anything that way


"original post edit " not sure how i lost the quote box

I find that very interesting. It was at least months before I even looked at that section when I joined. Being relatively new to guitar, I wanted to gain as much insight as possible, so the threads offering knowledge and insight is where I spent my time. I still rarely visit the for sale section.[/QUOTE]


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

So how does a new guy swing a deal? Not trying to be a douche... haven't really been on any other forums before so i don't know how this stuff works... i showed up here and got active right around the time the dillweed ripped some people off. I'm from GP, have squat for history with anybody... but i def came here in part because of the gear swapping potential. I'm legitimately curious as to how I'd go about getting started here.


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

The EMT thing is something I've recently learned about as well. One of my other money-sucking affairs - fishing - has me perusing the sales section of Spoonpullers and other fishing forums frequently. I nearly lost a sale a while back from a bank employee because I was adamant about being paid through EMT. He said he did not and would not use it for a variety of reasons, including the fact that there's little if any buyer protection.

I guess it's an err on the side of caution thing, but I have noticed an increase over the past year in new members making ridiculous offers on items I'm selling, or setting up deal and then pulling a Kaiser Sose. And I don't mean reasonable market-value offers - I mean insults like you get from kijidiots. I like the minimum post-count system that a lot of other sites have - it makes someone commit a little more to the community than just biding their time. I seldom buy from new members with low post-counts, and if I trade, I'll generally ask them to ship first. That being said, if we went to a Paypal-only policy, I probably wouldn't do anything other than trades. Getting dinged on the sale and again when you withdraw funds, and waiting a week to get them is just too damned much in my book.


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

garrettdavis275 said:


> So how does a new guy swing a deal? Not trying to be a douche... haven't really been on any other forums before so i don't know how this stuff works... i showed up here and got active right around the time the dillweed ripped some people off. I'm from GP, have squat for history with anybody... but i def came here in part because of the gear swapping potential. I'm legitimately curious as to how I'd go about getting started here.


First off, if an established member knows you and vouches for you, that goes a long way for most people on here, Garrett. After that - well, we all started from scratch at one point. Get a few transactions under your belt, keep them straight with tracking numbers and prompt shipment, and maybe eat the humble pie and ship first if dealing with an established member. These scams are the exception and not the norm on here, and I feel everyone gives the benefit of the doubt here until proven wrong. Do things the right way and you'll be fine. It might be easier to start with purchases. Just my honest opinion.

Brent


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

b-nads said:


> First off, if an established member knows you and vouches for you, that goes a long way for most people on here, Garrett. After that - well, we all started from scratch at one point. Get a few transactions under your belt, keep them straight with tracking numbers and prompt shipment, and maybe eat the humble pie and ship first if dealing with an established member. These scams are the exception and not the norm on here, and I feel everyone gives the benefit of the doubt here until proven wrong. Do things the right way and you'll be fine. It might be easier to start with purchases. Just my honest opinion.
> 
> Brent


That makes sense. My GAS is much more about buying than selling anyway lol. We'll see how it all goes, i appreciate the advice, b-nads. Cheers.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> In your case, you've been here long enough that I think people would trust you. If you got rid of your Harleys and bought something decent like a Honda Gold Wing that would give you an A++ rating.:smiley-faces-75:
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...


"My son on a big girl before my brother on a Honda". No, wait....my son's girlfriend is 6' 1" and fills out a t-shirt quite nicely (She's blonde) and until a short while ago my older brother rode wings.....when he could no longer find new parts he sold his last one and bought a 2005 yamaha 1100 (the shame of it all). If I sold my Harleys I'd probably have to buy a fender or a gibson and you know that ain't gonna happen.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

garrettdavis275 said:


> So how does a new guy swing a deal? Not trying to be a douche... haven't really been on any other forums before so i don't know how this stuff works... i showed up here and got active right around the time the dillweed ripped some people off. I'm from GP, have squat for history with anybody... but i def came here in part because of the gear swapping potential. I'm legitimately curious as to how I'd go about getting started here.


Well, first you have to buy everybody coffee and donuts and not the timmies or starbucks stuff. Milkman and a few others will probably want tea. Then you have to tell us what you have to swap.....I prefer blondes over brunettes but a red head will do in a pinch. Don't expect everybody you deal with to use paypal or emt either. If you deal with me the method of transportation would probably be the dog....greyhound....and the method of payment C.O.D.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

garrettdavis275 said:


> So how does a new guy swing a deal? Not trying to be a douche... haven't really been on any other forums before so i don't know how this stuff works... i showed up here and got active right around the time the dillweed ripped some people off. I'm from GP, have squat for history with anybody... but i def came here in part because of the gear swapping potential. I'm legitimately curious as to how I'd go about getting started here.


This post is a good start. In terms of deals make sure you offer the buyer whatever they need to feel comfortable. When dealing with big chunks of money the one putting it out should be able to ask for some kind of security and PayPal is one way to do that. Better yet if you can meet up in person . But building a good rep takes time. No fast track really


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

More people should use COD.. how can you go wrong..let me think....ok that didn't take long.....i am thinking COD is fool-proof.


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## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

You have to remember that every time a Con Artist
gets into action , the first thing you hear is the True
Gentleman he is .....and then when confidence has build up,
Bang !!!!!.........You get the Coup D'État !!!!!!


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## dmc69 (Jan 20, 2011)

b-nads said:


> That being said, if we went to a Paypal-only policy, I probably wouldn't do anything other than trades. Getting dinged on the sale and again when you withdraw funds, and waiting a week to get them is just too damned much in my book.


Hey Brent, PayPal does indeed take a 3%ish fee, but think of it this way: You save on postage when you print a label with PayPal and it's more convenient that way, especially if you have more than a few things going out at the same time. I just walk into my local post office, skip any lines and just drop the item off because it's already paid for with customs information (if required) filled out already. I don't know if this is new, but I don't pay any fees when withdrawing to my bank account regardless of how small the amount. Essentially, I lose some but gain some.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

dmc69 said:


> Hey Brent, PayPal does indeed take a 3%ish fee, but think of it this way: You save on postage when you print a label with PayPal and it's more convenient that way, especially if you have more than a few things going out at the same time. I just walk into my local post office, skip any lines and just drop the item off because it's already paid for with customs information (if required) filled out already. I don't know if this is new, but I don't pay any fees when withdrawing to my bank account regardless of how small the amount. Essentially, I lose some but gain some.


I have never paid a fee to withdraw money from my paypal account


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

I have to if it's over a hundred.


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

The reason I ask to be paid via EMT is this (and I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet)

Paypal offers no seller protection
How easy is it for a scammer to buy something with paypal via their credit card, receive the item and do a credit card chargeback? Very easy 
And Paypal almost always sides with the buyer. Then it's up to the seller to prove that they indeed sold and shipped an item. 

I built up my iTrader rating on here before I started posting adds in the classifieds. That's how it works; gain people's confidence and show that you're a "great guy to deal with".

And about COD: you go pick your stuff up at the PO. You pay the PO lady (or guy...), she gives you your item and prepares Money Orders to send to the seller. Well the only time I used COD, Canada Post managed to lose the Money Orders in the mail...


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

b-nads said:


> I have to if it's over a hundred.


I would check into that if I were you


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Business said:


> The reason I ask to be paid via EMT is this (and I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet)
> 
> Paypal offers no seller protection
> How easy is it for a scammer to buy something with paypal via their credit card, receive the item and do a credit card chargeback? Very easy
> ...


PayPal does offer seller protection but there are things you need to do to be eligible for it. Essentially it comes down shipping method and using a signature required delivery method. As long as its traceable, shipped to a confirmed Paypal address and signed for they cannot submit a claim that it was not received. This can add to shipping costs but it depends, for me at least, on the price tag . High dollar items I make sure and in the end the buyer pays for shipping.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

If you choose COD, and you receive the item and pay for it, and Canada Post sends the seller a check by mail and it gets lost in there system, i doubt you are responsible, you did your part and paid for it and have a receipt.. Its up to Canada Post to pay the seller...if it gets lost in there system, they should have sent it register mail with tracking..they have to make it right.. The guy that shipped the item, paid them for the service..


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

Agreed, signature option (super cheap anyway) and confirmed address is a must
Still, people can claim they haven't received the item or that their signature was forged
There is no perfect system
Doesn't help that Paypal have some sending/receiving limits (999$ per 24h in my case) and that getting "verified" is more complicated than getting a friggin' passport

On COD: when that particular incidident happened, I sent a scan of my COD receipt to the seller. I don't know how much effort it took him to get his money though.
Again, shows that no system is bulletproof


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## dmc69 (Jan 20, 2011)

Business said:


> The reason I ask to be paid via EMT is this (and I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet)
> 
> Paypal offers no seller protection
> How easy is it for a scammer to buy something with paypal via their credit card, receive the item and do a credit card chargeback? Very easy
> ...


As long as you fulfill PayPal's requirements to get seller protection, there's not much a buyer can do. Sure he can try to file a claim and such, but if you have everything documented, you can prove you did indeed send it out. It might just take a while, but I'm confident if you're organized, have proof showing you paid for and sent the item, and got signature confirmation (if applicable. they only require it for things worth $850 or more), they will award it in your favour. Luckily, when you print shipping labels on PayPal, the tracking number and proof of purchase gets documented right onto your transaction itself. Proof of delivery you can see on Canada Post's website.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

garrettdavis275 said:


> So how does a new guy swing a deal?


Well first, change your location to somewhere other than Grande Prairie... ;-)


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

Lol kinda tough to explain the shipping addy.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

garrettdavis275 said:


> Lol kinda tough to explain the shipping addy.


Depending what it is and if the shipping is paid you could have it sent here. I'd bring it up. Really.


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> Depending what it is and if the shipping is paid you could have it sent here. I'd bring it up. Really.


Where else are people this friendly?? Thanks man!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Any update/progress on this issue?

Dave


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Yes, did we make any progress


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

Hey! I live in Grande Prairie now too! I moved here about a year ago. I'd sure like to know who this guy is and if he is legitimately a part of the music scene here in town. Maybe someone I know knows him (or at least I can warn all my other musician contacts in town about the guy); I'll have to PM you to get his real name. You'd think the guy would at least be somewhat into guitars to talk about swapping necks on strats... but then again, you don't have to be much in the know to pretend to have a strat or two... one of the most famous guitars of all time. It's a lot more obvious when someone knows nothing about amps...


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## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

Hey folks!

Thanks for asking about progress. This is in the hands of the police. Report has been filed to bank, Interac and Canada Anti Fraud Center. Not sure what the outcome will be but at least I did what I had to do and I hope that gives him some trouble.

Another forum member who's also in Grande Prairie managed to find his address (save for the appartment number). How awesome is that! As soon as I have a chance I'm going to confirm it and sue the sucker through small claims court.

I'm also thinking about reporting him to Rogers since he was stupid enough to give me his cell number. I have other actions in mind but I will not disclose them here. I might never see my money again but I'm going to give him a run for it.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Ocean7 said:


> As soon as I have a chance I'm going to confirm it and sue the sucker through small claims court.


Thanks for the update. Looks like you are certainly making progress.

Please look carefully into what is involved in the the process of going through small claims court. 
I was considering small claims when we had our business (to collect a debt of about $900.00). When I spoke to friend who is a lawyer (just in conversation, he wasn't going too "represent" us) he advised me that it can be a long process and involves a fair amount of your time. He said that he had tried to use it to collect bad debts for has law practice and gave up on the concept. IIRC, even if the judgement is awarded in your favour you still have figure out a way of collecting the debt on your own. 

Possibly I am wrong and/or things have changed. I'm just suggesting that you do some homework before depending on the small claims process/court to be the best solution.

Please consider continuing to let us know the progress and your conclusion/findings re: the small claims court process.

Cheers

Dave


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Good luck getting what is rightfully yours


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

greco said:


> Thanks for the update. Looks like you are certainly making progress.
> 
> Please look carefully into what is involved in the the process of going through small claims court.
> I was considering small claims when we had our business (to collect a debt of about $900.00). When I spoke to friend who is a lawyer (just in conversation, he wasn't going too "represent" us) he advised me that it can be a long process and involves a fair amount of your time. He said that he had tried to use it to collect bad debts for has law practice and gave up on the concept. IIRC, _*even if the judgement is awarded in your favour you still have figure out a way of collecting the debt on your own. *_
> ...


I have heard of cases where the person has to be taken to small claims court twice, once to win and the second time to force him/her to pay.


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

If you win and doesn't pay-get a bench warrant. If he is pulled over by the police for speeding etc.-they will have to arrest him.


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2015)

In the meantime, once you find out his true address,
spread the word amongst the homeless about how
friendly and generous this individual is. Just a thought.


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## Stonehead (Nov 12, 2013)

Seems pointless to take him to small claims court over 400 bucks. Even if you win, and you will because the fuckhead won't show up in court, you won't be able to collect. Ive been through this before and its a royal pain in the ass. Winning the case is easy collecting is not. Debt collectors won't touch it because there is not enough money in it for them. This leaves you with registering leans against his property (if he owns) which costs you more money and time. Getting burnt like this fkn sucks hard. Like i said I've been through this a couple of times and the law don't give a fk over 400 bucks. 
Lesson learned, keep it local, cut your losses and move on.


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

Stonehead said:


> Seems pointless to take him to small claims court over 400 bucks. Even if you win, and you will because the fuckhead won't show up in court, you won't be able to collect. Ive been through this before and its a royal pain in the ass. Winning the case is easy collecting is not. Debt collectors won't touch it because there is not enough money in it for them. This leaves you with registering leans against his property (if he owns) which costs you more money and time. Getting burnt like this fkn sucks hard. Like i said I've been through this a couple of times and the law don't give a fk over 400 bucks.
> Lesson learned, keep it local, cut your losses and move on.


Debt collectors would definitely take it on, I've seen them go after people owing as little as $125. even if you only get $30 out of it afterwards. At the point where you're filing liens against someone it's not about getting your money...it's about being a pain in the ass and legally making their lives difficult every time they try and do something such as selling a car or house or even getting a 2nd mortgage. When the court rules that he is at fault and owes.....then it's not libel or slander when you spread his name and info all over the place...it's fact, consider it a public service


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

DrHook said:


> Debt collectors would definitely take it on, I've seen them go after people owing as little as $125. even if you only get $30 out of it afterwards. At the point where you're filing liens against someone it's not about getting your money...it's about being a pain in the ass and legally making their lives difficult every time they try and do something such as selling a car or house or even getting a 2nd mortgage. When the court rules that he is at fault and owes.....then it's not libel or slander when you spread his name and info all over the place...it's fact, consider it a public service


Thats exactly what I would do. he used the internet to rip someone off. I would use the internet to do the same to his name and rep. Once it's in the public realm, ie court decision it's open to publication including here.


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## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

DrHook said:


> Debt collectors would definitely take it on, I've seen them go after people owing as little as $125. even if you only get $30 out of it afterwards. At the point where you're filing liens against someone it's not about getting your money...it's about being a pain in the ass and legally making their lives difficult every time they try and do something such as selling a car or house or even getting a 2nd mortgage. When the court rules that he is at fault and owes.....then it's not libel or slander when you spread his name and info all over the place...it's fact, consider it a public service


And that's exactly what I plan to do (and be... a PITA for him). Let's face it I'll never get my $400 back even through legal procedures. So if a debt collector wants to run after him and I only see $50 in the end I'll be very happy. Not because of the $50 but because I will have made his life a bit more complicated, and he will not have my money in hand anymore.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

This thread has me spooked all of a sudden. I feel like trusting folks that aren't a regular presence or have some positive feedback is all of a sudden an issue for me. I've done IEMT with folks on Kijiji who have to ship, that's taking a leap of faith but it has worked out. Sucks that it has come to this.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

How do you go about getting a Dog the bounty hunter, do they advertise, or do you have to get there name through a lawyer.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Thanks O7...sorry you had to go through that BS. And no worries about the length of the post as well. The longer and more info accrued by members and non members, the better. The selling part of this site was one of the key factors of me actually joining. Hope you can still resolve this issue with some legal help or something. I wouldn't even know where to start.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

IIRC you know where he works? If so, and you get a judgement against him, I don't think it's a huge deal getting his employer to garnish his wages. The added bonus is, no fees from collection agencies AND his employer might come to realize what a scumbag he is.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

IIRC, when we had our business and were contacted by debt collectors, they wanted about 30% of whatever they collected. THEY ARE RELENTLESS in their pursuit of the money...perfect for what you are looking for!!!...LOL In addition, you do not need a small claims court decision to use their services.

Cheers

Dave


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

I'm using a bailiff in Quebec to collect rent owed from a house I have/had. Just sold it. I think you need the courts decision for their services but they can garnish wages, seize property and seize bank accounts. Good luck. We are out a lot more than 400. Scammers need a good reaming from behind and a boot in the head formgood
measure.


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## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

greco said:


> IIRC, when we had our business and were contacted by debt collectors, they wanted about 30% of whatever they collected. THEY ARE RELENTLESS in their pursuit of the money...perfect for what you are looking for!!!...LOL In addition, you do not need a small claims court decision to use their services.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


Good. In need relentless harassment :sSc_eeksign:

I am not sure I do not need a court decision to use a debt collector though. I'll have to look into this.

Did I tell you that I narrowed down his location to an apartment block in GP? Thanks to an amazing forum member!

I just need his apartment number now and I'm sending the process server to his door.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Keep us informed. We all need to stick together on this forum. We don't need his kind on here


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Ocean7 said:


> Good. In need relentless harassment :sSc_eeksign:
> 
> I am not sure I do not need a court decision to use a debt collector though. I'll have to look into this.
> 
> ...


They are relentless indeed...even to someone who is not at fault. They harassed me for weeks on end after some woman gave them "her number"...which was my # for years.....they thought I was trying to pull a fast one when I said I never heard of her.

It was absolutely ridiculous....and Mr Greasy Fingers or whatever his name is deserves ridiculous to no end.

Now go sick em! :smile-new:


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Ocean7 said:


> I am not sure I do not need a court decision to use a debt collector though. I'll have to look into this.


I'm not 100% sure...but they (many different collection agancies) did offer their services to us and I don't remember them mentioning the need for a court order/decision.

This might be of interest to you (even though it regarding Ontario law)
http://law.uwo.ca/clinics_and_centr...ection_agencies_are_regulated_in_ontario.html

Cheers

Dave


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## Stonehead (Nov 12, 2013)

DrHook said:


> Debt collectors would definitely take it on, I've seen them go after people owing as little as $125. even if you only get $30 out of it afterwards.


Back a few years ago a guy backed into my car, it was totally his fault. Got the estimate and he offered to pay half. I took him to court, he did't show, got a judgement against him for $1800.00. Called several collection agencies and no one would touch it cuz there was no money in it for them. Put the liens against him and it just cost me money. 
Collection agencies don't take on personal small debt. The like to hook into companies that pay them a flat rate for recovery.


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

Stonehead said:


> Back a few years ago a guy backed into my car, it was totally his fault. Got the estimate and he offered to pay half. I took him to court, he did't show, got a judgement against him for $1800.00. Called several collection agencies and no one would touch it cuz there was no money in it for them. Put the liens against him and it just cost me money.
> Collection agencies don't take on personal small debt. The like to hook into companies that pay them a flat rate for recovery.


Ok, good to know. 

Several years back I had a client take off without paying me $1150. I sometimes think I should have hired an agency, and this thread was started to really have me regretting not being more persistent.

I was let it go so long as I was buying into her sob story about divorce, hardship, etc. In the end I realized she never had any intention of paying.

No worries, my lesson was learned, and I don't let anyone off the hook anymore.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Stonehead said:


> Collection agencies don't take on personal small debt. The like to hook into companies that pay them a flat rate for recovery.


OK...interesting. Being that we owned a business is possibly why we had so many calling us on a regular basis.

Cheers

Dave


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## toby2 (Dec 2, 2006)

P Dune had a Vox amp serviced and said he would pay the $700 bill ( new transformers and tubes etc ) on Tuesday . Never happened . His bandmate did pay for the repair that was done on his Fender Super Reverb amp .


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

A couple of things to consider. You're in Quebec....I'm not too sure if the rules for things like this are the same there as in Alberta. I think it takes a bit more than just talking to the employer to have wages garnished. Debt collectors can't just come pounding on your door demanding money. Most collection agencies will cut you a deal to get some money. A collection agency will take on recovering a debt, after you have spent a reasonable amount of time trying to recover the money yourself or if you have a court judgment. As far as I know if you go to small claims court the other person doesn't have to be there as long as they have been told that there will be a court case against them....but it seems that the police have been involved so small claims court might not be an option until the police case has been settled. If someone here finds out the name and address of this person and goes pounding on his door to try and collect the debt for Ocean7, don't. That can open a large can of worms you don't want opened. All of a sudden you're the bad guy and he's the victim. 
You will probably have to wait until the police action is sorted out but in the mean time maybe go have a talk with a collection agency and see what your options are there. Things like what info they need.....I know a full name and phone number are needed.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> ..........Most collection agencies will cut you a deal to get some money. A collection agency will take on recovering a debt, after you have spent a reasonable amount of time trying to recover the money yourself or if you have a court judgment.


This was NOT my experience over several years and with various collection agencies.

Cheers

Dave


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

greco said:


> This was NOT my experience over several years and with various collection agencies.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


I got caught up in one of those easy to get credit card schemes and after a while the phone calls started. Eventually, on the advice of one of the wife's bosses, we asked what a payout would be....it was about a third of what I owed. So we tried this on my other debts with the same results. I've had a couple of friends who've served papers and worked for debt collection agencies in B.C. and they would go after any amount of money, usually for a flat rate but sometimes for a percentage.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Should call him stickyfingers!


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## YellowBrick (Mar 7, 2015)

sulphur said:


> Should call him stickyfingers!


Lol  how about brokenfingers?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Before and after the collection agency. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

sulphur said:


> Should call him stickyfingers!


You took the words right out of my mouth!


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