# Is this what burnout feels like ?



## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

Since COVID started, I've been practicing again every day between 1 and 2 hours. And it felt good, when I was not practicing I was listening to music at work...but for the past few weeks I've noticed that once warm-up and exercises are done I don't feel like playing anything.

I'm uninspired, disengaged, whether it's practicing improvisation or working on songs... I do it but I feel emotionally detached, I have a hard time connecting with the songs, I just feel tired and bored.

Even when I'm not playing I don't feel like listening to music much. Might be also the fatigue of raising young kids and having a day job on top of music that's taking a toll on me, I don't know.

Have you guys been through periods like that ?

I think Robben Ford was saying in an interview that when he comes back from touring he usually takes a 2 to 3 break from guitar... not that I'm comparing myself to RF


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Easy solution: take a break.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

Budda said:


> Easy solution: take a break.


I know it's probably one of the solution but I feel bad when I don't touch the guitar more than a day.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Derek_T said:


> I know it's probably one of the solution but I feel bad when I don't touch the guitar more than a day.


No real polite version im afraid: get over it.

I own some very cool guitars. Sometimes I dont play for a week. Why should I beat myself up over the thing that is supposed to be fun?


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

Budda said:


> Why should I beat myself up over the thing that is supposed to be fun?


Because I want to get good at it . Sorry my post was unclear maybe, I don't pick up the instrument out of guilt, I do it because I want to keep getting better at it. But it might well be that at this point not touching the guitar for a while is the best move I agree.
I'm just curious to hear if other have went through a similar phase in their playing.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Many have, across many hobbies. Have no fear!


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

I go for weeks or months without playing sometimes, then the mood strikes me and I get back on the bike. I think everyone ebbs and flows a bit. It’s normal.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

It could be a larger issue, but I agree: take a bit of a break. Step away and give yourself some room to breathe. You'll come back energized and invigorated.

I recently spent a fair amount of time replacing the guts of a cheap guitar that I love....except for the pickups. It turned into a slog, I think I need to redo it, and I am just done with it for a little while. I will try to get back to it this weekend after a week away from it.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Budda said:


> No real polite version im afraid: get over it.


I think this sounds a lot harsher than it is meant to.

I also hope you don't mind a little interpretation. I think what you mean to say is that one should not feel guilty about not playing for a brief or extended period. 

When you start thinking things like that, it just feeds into an endless loop of guilt, obligation, guilt, obligation and eventually loathing. In that case "just get over it" 

Watch yourself in all if this though, lost interest could be signs of depression. I am not saying that is this, but be mindful of the rest of you in the next little bit and if thst feeling starts to creep... well I dont have a solution, i suffer myself. That being said, being aware of you is the first and best step to helping oneself.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I don't think you're human if you don't have minor burn-out - especially us dudes who are pretty feverish about music. The intensity needs to relax. I'm just coming off a 3 week break myself and I can't wait to get back at it.

My chops are still there, but disappointed that my callouses are completely gone though - sucks.


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## polyslax (May 15, 2020)

Derek_T said:


> Since COVID started, I've been practicing again every day between 1 and 2 hours. And it felt good, when I was not practicing I was listening to music at work...but for the past few weeks I've noticed that once warm-up and exercises are done I don't feel like playing anything.
> 
> I'm uninspired, disengaged, whether it's practicing improvisation or working on songs... I do it but I feel emotionally detached, I have a hard time connecting with the songs, I just feel tired and bored.
> 
> ...


Clearly, you need a new guitar. 

A break is good. Alternate tunings or some other change to the routine can also help.


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## 2N1305 (Nov 2, 2009)

You may have reached a point of saturation, yes. For me, electronics was one of my favourite hobbies, but I find that when I came back home, after supper and chores, I didn't have much desire to sit down and actively use my brain, even though I love that hobby. And the same occasionally hapenned with music. I've gone through periods where it didn't interest me to strap it on, no matter what the goal was. I think it's more common tan you think, but I don't know if it's burnout. Not sure what the official definition of burnout is but I don't think it's what you describe.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

polyslax said:


> Clearly, you need a new guitar.


If I tell that to my wife I’m going to loose more than inspiration.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

You're in a rut. No big deal.
Take a break until the urge comes back.


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## Pat James (5 mo ago)

Simple solution: Get another guitar.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Long ago, I worked with brain-damaged rats in a lab. They weren't completely amnesic, but they were severely memory impaired. One of the interesting things about them was that they didn't get frustrated. Fundamentally, frustration is defeated expectations, and expectations rely on memory. Not just about what has been, but also keeping in mind what _could_ be.

Fast forward 30 years from my hippocampal-lesioned rat days, and I was tasked with assessing "employee engagement" of federal employees, and reading what I could find about both worker motivation, burnout, and what management consultants were suggesting (usually the wrong things). People get engrossed in their work and throw themselves into it when it feels like their effort is justified. I say "justified" rather than rewarded, because "reward" prompts the wrong idea about what motivates people. Justification CAN be fostered by simple rewards (e.g., a promotion or pay raise). But let us say you get a raise, and your employer flies in someone from outside for that tasty job opening you were hoping to get promoted, or at least interviewed for. It would take one helluva raise to offset the feeling of "What the hell am I beating my brains for in trying to learn and groom myself for a higher position in this company if they don't promote from within?". Your effort is undermined and feels unjustified. Burnout ensues. Indeed, burnout is a regular occurrence in those fields people enter to do something for the public good, like social work, health care, legal aid, teaching. EVERY worker has to have a reasonable answer to the inevitable question "Why bother?" when they get up on a work day. And if it begins to feel like you're making absolutely no headway in something you care deeply about, and maybe even falling behind despite your best efforts, people soon lose their passion and burnout ensues.

Okay, why am I telling you both of these things? 

Because your desire to improve clearly reflects something you care about. And if you practice every day, then certainly you will remember in rich detail what you could and could not do on the instrument yesterday. The subjective sense of progress is what provides "justification" for your effort. It doesn't have to be massive improvement. It just has to be enough success that the practice regimen feels "worth it". And if you have reached one of those asymptotic plateaus that often and reliably occurs even with the greatest of the great, it is easy to lose motivation.

So what's the answer? Learn how to forget what you could and couldn't do yesterday by taking a break from it. In other words, there is great wisdom and even scientific evidence of the benefits of what others here have suggested.

And believe it or not, sometimes your body learns even when you aren't trying. One of my profs during my masters program studied "sensory substitution". In particular sense of touch in visually impaired people. I served as a research subject for him, learning to "read" with my fingers, using an Opticon - a device that scans text and converts scanned letters into a piezo buzzer pattern that scrolls across your fingertip like a marquee. It was the damndest thing. After an hour, I simply could not differentiate letters any more, so we'd pack it in. But the next day, my accuracy rate was always higher than it had been at its best the day before. How? Damned if I know, because it wasn't the sort of thing you could mentally rehearse when you didn't have your hand "in the saddle". The same thing can often happen with fine motor skills of other sorts.

So, take a break. You may come back better than you thought you would. Just don't make the break so long that you lose your callouses.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Give yourself a break and don't worry about it. It will come back. Probably even better.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

mhammer said:


> Fast forward 30 years from my hippocampal-lesioned rat days, and I was tasked with assessing "employee engagement" of federal employees, and reading what I could find about both worker motivation, burnout, and what management consultants were suggesting (usually the wrong things). People get engrossed in their work and throw themselves into it when it feels like their effort is justified. I say "justified" rather than rewarded, because "reward" prompts the wrong idea about what motivates people. Justification CAN be fostered by simple rewards (e.g., a promotion or pay raise). But let us say you get a raise, and your employer flies in someone from outside for that tasty job opening you were hoping to get promoted, or at least interviewed for. It would take one helluva raise to offset the feeling of "What the hell am I beating my brains for in trying to learn and groom myself for a higher position in this company if they don't promote from within?". Your effort is undermined and feels unjustified. Burnout ensues. Indeed, burnout is a regular occurrence in those fields people enter to do something for the public good, like social work, health care, legal aid, teaching. EVERY worker has to have a reasonable answer to the inevitable question "Why bother?" when they get up on a work day. And if it begins to feel like you're making absolutely no headway in something you care deeply about, and maybe even falling behind despite your best efforts, people soon lose their passion and burnout ensues.
> 
> Okay, why am I telling you both of these things?
> 
> ...


Being a federal employee, I can certainly understand that. I have had to deal with the feeling for years that no matter how good I was at my job, or what I did to get ahead, I wouldn't for the simple fact that my French isn't great. So I burned out while on French training, and had to go on stress leave as soon as I got my Bs. 

Best thing that I did was deciding that I didn't give a flying f÷%k about advancement anymore, because my kids matter way more than an extra couple of grand a year. My wife also has a demanding (and high-paying) career, so I am doing my job well, but not trying to move up.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Rollin Hand said:


> Being a federal employee, I can certainly understand that. I have had to deal with the feeling for years that no matter how good I was at my job, or what I did to get ahead, I wouldn't for the simple fact that my French isn't great. So I burned out while on French training, and had to go on stress leave as soon as I got my Bs.
> 
> Best thing that I did was deciding that I didn't give a flying f÷%k about advancement anymore, because my kids matter way more than an extra couple of grand a year. My wife also has a demanding (and high-paying) career, so I am doing my job well, but not trying to move up.


Been there, done that, worn out the t-shirt. I spent years talking to managers about "employee engagement", what it is and isn't and was tasked with providing reports to senior management about it.

I find it almost funny that, after something like 15 years of management culture being rabidly obsessed with "employee engagement" (a term I will note is NOT used in the psychological literature, but principally in the management consulting field - the same folks who think there is substance to the Myers-Briggs "what category of learner are you?" nonsense), we see reports in the newsmedia about "quiet quitting". If employees are working to rule, after a decade and a half of consultants instructing management about getting employees more motivated, then I think that indicates:

1) the concepts consultants were flogging were ill-informed; or

2) the management that hired them really didn't understand or care enough to implement things that would boost employee morale and motivation; or

3) management at upper levels changed as people took their cashouts and left, and none of the retiring people explained to the new folks what needed to be done.


As for burnout from guitar practice, technical skill can only be as motivating as the musical ideas it lets one express more fluidly. The fastest and most proficient wanking will still feel like wanking, and sound like it, if one doesn't have the ideas for those improved skills to make use of. I am in awe of Guthrie Govan, and had the pleasure of seeing him and the Aristocrats live 3 summers back. As phenomenally fast and skilled as he is, what impressed me far more than his speed was just how inventive he was in his solos and general approach to solo construction. So constant woodshedding can easily make one feel like you're spinning your wheels unless there are new musical ideas that the practice lets one get to more easily and effectively. Listening to other music is precisely what a "break" should be about.


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## jimmythegeek (Apr 17, 2012)

Sounds like burnout for sure. I’ve had this happen pretty badly with cycling in the past. Take a break. It feels counterintuitive but you’re brain is just telling you it wants a rest.


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## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

Take a break for one full day. When you return crank the volume way up. From the very first note. Double if you can. And lots of gain. Play with anger and reckless abandon. Let it feedback lots. Do endless screaming bends. Play fast and hard and selfish. Until your physically exhausted.
Works for me.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

mhammer said:


> Long ago, I worked with brain-damaged rats in a lab. They weren't completely amnesic, but they were severely memory impaired. One of the interesting things about them was that they didn't get frustrated. Fundamentally, frustration is defeated expectations, and expectations rely on memory. Not just about what has been, but also keeping in mind what _could_ be.
> 
> Fast forward 30 years from my hippocampal-lesioned rat days, and I was tasked with assessing "employee engagement" of federal employees, and reading what I could find about both worker motivation, burnout, and what management consultants were suggesting (usually the wrong things). People get engrossed in their work and throw themselves into it when it feels like their effort is justified. I say "justified" rather than rewarded, because "reward" prompts the wrong idea about what motivates people. Justification CAN be fostered by simple rewards (e.g., a promotion or pay raise). But let us say you get a raise, and your employer flies in someone from outside for that tasty job opening you were hoping to get promoted, or at least interviewed for. It would take one helluva raise to offset the feeling of "What the hell am I beating my brains for in trying to learn and groom myself for a higher position in this company if they don't promote from within?". Your effort is undermined and feels unjustified. Burnout ensues. Indeed, burnout is a regular occurrence in those fields people enter to do something for the public good, like social work, health care, legal aid, teaching. EVERY worker has to have a reasonable answer to the inevitable question "Why bother?" when they get up on a work day. And if it begins to feel like you're making absolutely no headway in something you care deeply about, and maybe even falling behind despite your best efforts, people soon lose their passion and burnout ensues.
> 
> ...


Thanks Doc . That was quite helpful, I guess I’m afraid of “loosing” some of the hard earned progress. But I’m listening to the crowd wisdom and it seems like a break is due.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Derek_T said:


> Thanks Doc . That was quite helpful, I guess I’m afraid of “loosing” some of the hard earned progress. But I’m listening to the crowd wisdom and it seems like a break is due.


Be careful, I am on a break right now and what I ended up with is a whole lot of pedal parts 

Now, not to make it all about me, but I find from time to time as my interest in playing wanes that I wonder into other facets of "time suck". Typically that takes me so far away from playing that I don't even get back to it for a decade or so. This time around I decided to maybe pursue some adjacent interest. 

If the interest is there, perhaps use this time to brush up on some music theory, or transpose some music, or build an amp, or buy some guys whole supply of resistors and diodes and see if that floats your boat. 

Don't look at the physical act as the whole shebang, there are many divergent paths to "guitar" that can keep you interested but perhaps refreshed as well.

Personally I find time away can really gel the things in my noggin and I come back stronger, I bet you will be the same


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

If you start to miss it (and that's NOT the same as feeling guilty like you should get back to it), then that will dictate how long the break should be.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Yep. If you plan a 5 day break and on day 3 your mind is screaming “SICK DAY SHRED DAY” - listen to it.


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## TheGASisReal (Mar 2, 2020)

Smoke a joint and just play. Stop worrying about practicing.. You'll improve from playing and exploring the instrument


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

You'll never lose what you _know_ so it's all good as long as you are fair to yourself. 
I have been slipping in and out of similar states as you've described. And recently have been, due to schedule shifts, listening to music more than I have been playing or practicing it. I think I can glean one thing though; I think it's important to remember that any time you truly put your hand to the task, progress is made. Sometimes it may be slow, and it may be frustrating, but things do have a cumulative effect. The place of boredom is bound to be the same ground that will revolutionize your thinking about the instrument and music in a universal sense. So, it really is a struggle with oneself. I can be new-agey for a second and say that ultimately you have control of how much or how little enters your periphery...sometimes all it takes is simply to play a chord and listen to how it vibrates inside and outside of you. Harmony is inspiring.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

Just to reframe what's already been said in a different way: Years ago, there was a popular book called The Artist's Way. I didn't read it, but I learned enough about it through a friend. 

The biggest takeaway is the need to "fill the well". Basically, it means chilling, relaxing, doing other things that you enjoy in order to recharge your creative energy or "well of inspiration". If you're just outputting all the time, you aren't taking time to "fill the well".


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm about as fuckin burned out as you can get in life but I play my guitars every day not from some kinda practice obligation its just what I do. Haven't watched television in 20 years, don't give a rats ass about anything outside my own life, like what I do for a living and come home play some songs to lighten my load .. lol


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Do you smoke pot? I've noticed if I smoke I get super creative on guitar and all I want to do is play guitar. But when I take a break from pot the guitar bug goes away.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

Mark Brown said:


> Typically that takes me so far away from playing that I don't even get back to it for a decade or so


Same things happen to me years ago, I had a break for a couple of years, but having kids was a kick in the nuts as they are the ultimate time sucking machine, I knew if I stop it might be for good, and I could not bear the idea, that’s why I got back to it.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

player99 said:


> Do you smoke pot? I've noticed if I smoke I get super creative on guitar and all I want to do is play guitar. But when I take a break from pot the guitar bug goes away.


I haven’t even touched a cigarette in my life


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

player99 said:


> Do you smoke pot?


No.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Derek_T said:


> I’m afraid of “loosing” some of the hard earned progress.


A couple of years ago, I took a deliberate break from guitar - it was either 2 weeks or a month - I think a month. It was much needed as I had taken on a few new musical undertakings during the previous year and they took a LOT of work to get up to speed. I was certainly out of practice when I came back to it, but I eased back into it so as not to injure myself and within a week or so, I was right back where I had been when I stopped and feeling much better for it.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

When I'm taking a break I'll still run through finger and scale exercises for 15 ,minutes or so a day to keep up the brain to muscle / nerve connections as well as calluses.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

TheGASisReal said:


> Smoke a joint and just play. Stop worrying about practicing.. You'll improve from playing and exploring the instrument


this
jam with your favourite recordings


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## Robhotdad (Oct 27, 2016)

I own a really good mountain bike. I use it everyday. There's a cross-country skiing club 1 mile away and the trails kick ass in the summer time. They have this hill called the high line. You come down so fast and so hard, your vision blurs. Once you reach the bottom, you look up and say thank you for still being alive. And then it kicks in. After 5-10 km of up and down and sweating and then the high line, you fell like a million bucks. You can take on anything you want after that.


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## Permanent Waves (Jun 2, 2020)

At the beginning of the lockdown and working from home, I was freeing up over 2 hours of commute time every day so I was playing more than ever to break the boredom. I was experimenting, recording, and even took on-line lessons for a while. Then as the pandemic stretched from months to years, I started to lose focus because there was no goal - no jams, no gigs, nothing. I didn't touch the guitar for months and I was OK with that. (BTW, the fatigue of raising young kids will have the same effect, I went through it long before COVID).

Take a break and when the inspiration hits you, you'll know it. You can help it along in different ways by changing your routine. For me, part of it was getting a deal on a totally uncharacteristic instrument for me (a Gibson V) and getting into playing a music style I liked when I was younger - hard rock and metal stuff. It changed me from my regular routine and I revisited a lot of the songs I liked before, giving me a new challenge and a fresh approach. If you fall in a rut, take a break and change your direction, that will get you back on track.


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

Sounds like you have a busy life, family priorities etc. Not surprising that you are lacking time and energy for guitar.

Put your guitar(s) away (temporarily) and think about what your "guitar goal(s)" are now. Focus on one or two achievable goals. Jamming, solo/band gigs, recording, whatever inspired you to "get good" in the first place.

Keep the revised goal(s) simple but challenging, make a commitment. Pick up the phone, book a small gig or whatever applies to your situation. Practicing is all well and good, essential... to performing, writing etc. which are IMO, much more interesting.

YMMV. If this sounds like too much to take on in your life right now, it indicates that you probably don't have the time and energy. Frustrating for sure.

That said, after any length of break, one often returns with a vengeance.


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## pckpat (Aug 19, 2009)

Inspiration is a whole different animal than work ethic. You can force yourself to do scalework, etc., even when you really aren't in the mood to do so...but trying to compel inspiration to reflect your schedule or convenience will be an exercise in futility, time. I always liked Keith Richard's analogy of having your antennae up when that riff or hook, whatever, comes in on the airwaves. Burnout is a real bitch, indeed.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

On the instrument level, I find that switching to almost any other instrument helps restart the engine. On the brain level, I find that alternating the instrument with reading, studying, listening, building/set-ups/maintenance, helps restart the engine. On the health level, I find exercise, diet, and rest will restart the engine.

Or just go do something altogether different for a while. For me it's carpentry, gardening, walking, and simple daily tasks like housework. Or get yourself laid.

The big way for me is studying music because it always leads back to the instrument eventually.

More long term, just change that part of your routine but keep a plan to return.


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## DC23 (Mar 28, 2014)

Rollin Hand said:


> Being a federal employee, I can certainly understand that. I have had to deal with the feeling for years that no matter how good I was at my job, or what I did to get ahead, I wouldn't for the simple fact that my French isn't great. So I burned out while on French training, and had to go on stress leave as soon as I got my Bs.
> 
> Best thing that I did was deciding that I didn't give a flying f÷%k about advancement anymore, because my kids matter way more than an extra couple of grand a year. My wife also has a demanding (and high-paying) career, so I am doing my job well, but not trying to move up.


This really resonated with me. The only thing moving to Eastern Ontario did for me almost a couple of years ago now was reinforce any feelings of occupational inadequacy I ever felt. Nothing like feeling you have no skills, knowledge, or contribution potential to organizations or systems because you don't speak French. It's a sore spot, for sure. 

OP, I appreciate you posting and inquiring about this. I've struggled with the ebbs and flows of music and guitar playing for years. I took a pretty considerable break when I was going through grad school, although I very much enjoyed listening to music. However, I've generally found when things outside guitar playing are negatively impacting me, my interest in music and guitar wanes. I've almost given it up a couple of times because I felt like I didn't have any skill or knowledge of the instrument (yes, I see the parallel theme!). If I can suggest anything it's just to try to be understanding of yourself. I suck at this, by the way.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

DC23 said:


> I suck at this, by the way.


You did just fine


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

I can’t advise on the guitar part much, but you said young family. Young kids are great, but they need time and attention, more than parents realize. Shopping planning supervising playing with teaching etc…. It’s all great and you need to do it and be involved in this part of their lives… If you did “X and Y and Z” before kids, something has to give when you have kids because the time involved. But don’t can all your hobbies completely because you need that balance too. 
So, as others advised, Maybe take a guitar break then come back to it in the fall? I doubt you’ll unlearn what you know.


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

tomee2 said:


> I can’t advise on the guitar part much, but you said young family. Young kids are great, but they need time and attention, more than parents realize. Shopping planning supervising playing with teaching etc…. It’s all great and you need to do it and be involved in this part of their lives… If you did “X and Y and Z” before kids, something has to give when you have kids because the time involved. But don’t can all your hobbies completely because you need that balance too.
> So, as others advised, Maybe take a guitar break then come back to it in the fall? I doubt you’ll unlearn what you know.


This is very true. When bedtime goes well, I get a bit of time to myself to play, but that is never a sure thing. Some nights I’m in bed right behind them, others I’m just too drained. All part of the fun.


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## CptFnMarvelous (4 mo ago)

Derek_T said:


> Because I want to get good at it . Sorry my post was unclear maybe, I don't pick up the instrument out of guilt, I do it because I want to keep getting better at it. But it might well be that at this point not touching the guitar for a while is the best move I agree.
> I'm just curious to hear if other have went through a similar phase in their playing.


It may mean you've plateaued. Try choosing a song just a little beyond your grasp. Forget the exercises for a bit and learn that song.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Parabola said:


> This is very true. When bedtime goes well, I get a bit of time to myself to play, but that is never a sure thing. Some nights I’m in bed right behind them, others I’m just too drained. All part of the fun.


The weeks I dont play are usually the ones I nap 7:30-10, walk the dog then go to bed. Life happens, just gotta roll with it.


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