# Long and McQuade's recent free set-up



## jayjacque

A few weeks ago they had a free set-up if you bought 2 sets of strings. For this I normally would've brought in an electric, but I had a Godin Seagull Performer Acoustic that had some intonation issues, so that's the one I dropped off for the set-up. I picked it up when done, nicely oiled with the new strings (that I bought). The action was very high and the intonation problem was still there. I brought it home and promptly lowered the action which exposed the intonation as even worse. Additionally, the guitar was mislabeled as a Simon & Patrick on my receipt which gave me a scare, but when I picked it up I discovered the guitar case had that on it as well. Oh yeah, almost forgot to mention when I went to pick out the strings, they only had 11's or 13's in most brands, but they did have 12's in Dean Markley Helix. When I asked them why no 12's in most brands, they said they only stocked what sold the best (which sounded like a line of bull). Anyway by default I picked the Helix, since 12's would be my normal gauge. Overall it would've been a very bad experience, but I discovered Dean Markley's Helix and love them.

So said all that to ask this: Am I expecting too much from an acoustic set-up? Is that the way this usually works for these freebie type set-ups, or should I take it back and try to get them to address the real issues with that guitar?


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## Scotty

I missed out on that deal...did you explain the issues you were having? Perhaps the free set-up offering was somewhat of a "set up lite". (basic string height and truss rod adjustment & restring only)


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## Chito

I would be complaining although I won't have them work on it again. If they can't do it right the first time, how would you know if they are going to do it right the next time.


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## Guitar101

Not surprised that they didn't fix the intonation problem. I have a slight problem with my Seagull Performer mini jumbo on the B & Hi E strings. I get by with setting the B a touch low on the tuner and the hi E a touch hi and it works out ok. The guitar has a compensated bridge that would need to be adjusted by filing and mines not bad enough to try that.


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## LanceT

I watched the guy doing the set up at the store in Port Coquitlam, and he was flying. Don't know how much detail could have gone into it.
I think it's worthwhile to take it back though, they should look after it.


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## Stratin2traynor

Can't forget that most of those guys are players and salesman. I wouldn't expect much in terms of a quality setup except for a fretboard wipe down and a new set of strings. For an acoustic, I would definitely request a tech.


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## marauder

Yeah, as always "you get what you pay for". A couple of years ago I watched the L&M employee fly through these free setups; he had quite a line up of guitars to get through that day. A fretboard oil, (eyeballed) truss rod tweak, and restring is about all you were getting. Not what most of us would consider a proper "set up". This guy knows his stuff too - after he left l&m he did work out of his house and I had him go over several of my guitars, all with great results.

A good setup takes time and attention; there's no way you're getting that when they are trying to plow through dozens of guitars in an 8 hour day. I think it's really targeted for novices who aren't even comfortable changing strings.


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## zontar

It all depends on who is doing the set ups.

Many years ago I took in a guitar and it was worse afterwards.
It wasn't their regular guy who did mine.
And it showed--but that go me more serious about learning to do my own. (Although if someone who knows what they're doing does it, I like that as well.)
This guy lowered my action when I said I liked it where it was, and then instead of raising it he put some bow in the neck.
I put the action back where it was and after practicing on a cheaper guitar I adjusted the truss rod--and it was exactly what I needed.

So I avoided the free set up days for a while, but now if I go I target who does them, and there is one guy who is really good & I trust to do it properly.
At first I saw the work he did on somebody else's guitar, so I took one to him the next time.
He had many ahead of me, but they didn't grab someone else to pretend to do it, I went back & picked mine up a few days later--it wasn't out of my way.

And I loved the set up he did.
(He also set up my Mandobird after I bought it)


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## High/Deaf

Depends on who's doing it. I think you'd consider these 'free setups' as a lost leader and a way to generate traffic. I wouldn't expect a full-out setup, just a minor tweeking.



LanceT said:


> I watched the guy doing the set up at the store in Port Coquitlam, and he was flying. Don't know how much detail could have gone into it.
> I think it's worthwhile to take it back though, they should look after it.


Here's a fer-instance. A year or two ago, it was Fast Eddie doing the setups right by the front door at PoCo. They were paying him per set up, he isn't an salaried employee. The basic ones he did right there, the slightly worse ones he took back to his shop and it backed him up for a couple weeks. But he did the best he could for the (probably) 1 hour or so L&M allowed per guitar.

As Marauder said: "You get what you pay for." And what I say is: "There's no such thing as a free lunch. Someone, somewhere, is paying for it."


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## whackystrings

I have been buying guitars from L&M since '98 and the last time I got the "within one year of purchase date for a free setup" was back in 2005. Very, very disappointed in the Vancouver store for setups. Excuses after excuses and not ready from week to week (took 5 wks and it ended up being in worse intonation/action than when it was first purchased). Appalling. Nice sales folks, nice selection and service but sucky tech work. 
I take all new acquisitions to a local luthier/tech for a quality setup now and it is worth the costs.


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## dradlin

jayjacque said:


> So said all that to ask this: Am I expecting too much from an acoustic set-up? Is that the way this usually works for these freebie type set-ups, or should I take it back and try to get them to address the real issues with that guitar?


Your intonation issue is outside the scope of a setup, especially a quick freebie. The root cause of the intonation error is likely not related to the action adjustments made during a setup. Action adjustments affect intonation, but no amount of action adjustment will compensate for a mislocated saddle, for example.


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## jayjacque

Yeah, thinking the saddle might need that bit of repositioning, which of course isn't done easily like an electric. For most acoustic players they might not even notice because they seldom get up higher than the 5th or 7th fret, but I personally like moving up the neck, even on an acoustic.


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## zontar

whackystrings said:


> I have been buying guitars from L&M since '98 and the last time I got the "within one year of purchase date for a free setup" was back in 2005. Very, very disappointed in the Vancouver store for setups. Excuses after excuses and not ready from week to week (took 5 wks and it ended up being in worse intonation/action than when it was first purchased). Appalling. Nice sales folks, nice selection and service but sucky tech work.
> I take all new acquisitions to a local luthier/tech for a quality setup now and it is worth the costs.


I've had success with the free with 12 months set up (12 String, fretless bass & Mandobird)--it all depends on who does it I guess.
The guy who did my 12 string listened to me play it & asked me what I wanted & then did a great job.

Years later he was on his own & I had him do some of the mods to my LP copy & he did a great set up on it as well (Although I did pay for the LP copy work)
The bass & mandobird were done at different locations, but the Mandobird was done by the same guy I mentioned in my post above.


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## Lola

I had them do a set up on my SG and told them on the low E that there was some sort of twangy noise happening. They replaced the nut, put new strings on it which I bought but the twang is and was still there! I paid $200 for this but keep in mind they did have to replace the nut which I could easily done by myself if I had of the knowledge that I possess now. I am just going to take it to Cheezy's place when I go and build my pedal board with him and see what he thinks.


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## DavidP

High/Deaf said:


> Depends on who's doing it. I think you'd consider these 'free setups' as a lost leader and a way to generate traffic. I wouldn't expect a full-out setup, just a minor tweeking.
> 
> As Marauder said: "You get what you pay for." And what I say is: "There's no such thing as a free lunch. Someone, somewhere, is paying for it."


Ditto... honestly, what would you really expect on an in-store promo like this? I purposely avoid going near the L&M store that day...
If anything, this should motivate you to learn to set up your instruments to your own specs. Yeah, its hit and miss at first, but once you're comfortable with it, you have a LOT more control over the playability to get it 'just right'. There are some good threads on set-up resources (get one of Dan Erlewine's books) and basic tools (IMHO that String action gauge -- http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Straightedges/String_Action_Gauge.html -- is indispensable). Ok, I've been at this setup DIY a few decades now, but the only thing I take my guitars to a tech for is fretwork.


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## jayjacque

Yeah, I lived in the states for years, and Long & McQuade is a lot like Guitar Center down there. It's a big store business, and with few exceptions you're not going to get the personalized service. Usually it's ok for an accessory or two, but for more important stuff I either go on-line (purchases) or take my stuff to a smaller shop for service issues.


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## Tone Chaser

Free set up, you basically get what you pay for. Especially on a busy, promotional day that offers this for free. 

I would not expect them to solve those persistent problems that you may encounter with an instrument. Particularly if they change with the environment, weather, climate, and other factors that effect the instrument of a gigging musician.

Take a good look at how a new, name brand instrument arrives and how it is delivered to you. Gibson factory set ups are often a much higher action setting, than what most of us would want. That is their spec for the instrument. Once you stray from this set up, there are things to be learned.

A free set up in a limited amount of time, is what it is. Eventually if you spend enough time with your guitar, you will figure out how to solve your own set up needs. Pick up some beater guitars for free, or cheap and learn on those before you tackle a prized instrument.


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## zontar

It was a free set up that I din't like (As mentioned previously) that got me to learn at least the basics.
At one time a friend f mine would do it for free--but with life & all that and time--well that stopped being an option along the way.
Which is too bad--because he did do a good job.


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## jayjacque

Well thanks all for the input. Yeah, I reckon it is what it is, a cheap fast set-up. I normally do truss bar adjustments and intonation stuff on my electrics. But acoustic a little trickier. The truss rod is easy enough, but if there's still stuff off, then the bridge/saddle may need to be moved or little cheats done up by the nut. That's when it gets a little beyond what I'm willing to try. Also have tried a couple times replacing a nut and found many or most of the new ones you get are way too high and need a good deal of sanding down. That didn't work out so well either.


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## Rski

Acoustic intonation can't be dialed like an electric, the bridge is fixed, if its a straight bridge there is no intonation adjustment. However, if the bridge was compensated off set stagger type it usually works as long as it wasn't mistakenly installed backwards. Should a neck be bowed a bit to much, a proper truss rod tightening will do wonders, on the other hand, if the neck is over compensated, the neck doesn't respond that quickly, then loosen the truss rod, raise the bridge, low E or A string in the bridge slot and over time the neck should straighten out. Remember, humidity plays havoc with acoustic guitars when during heating seasons, I store mine in cases with real sponge moisten.


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## Axeman16

at the long and mcquade here in waterloo the tech is brutal. first time i took my newly built floyd guitar in for a full setup (paid 100) to make sure the floyd was setup perfectly (idea was to have it don better than id be able to set it up) since id never had a guitar with one before. the guitar had an evh d-tuna on it. 

so i get the guitar back and frets 14-22 buzzed and fretted out (frets are in good shape), he didnt center or bother touching the fine tuners and he couldnt set up the d tuna, said it was very common problem with them. he also got a big gob of whatever he uses to oil the fretboard on my brand new finish i had just finished wet sanding and polishing a month before. not to mention all the marks in the finish as well.

so i take it home and am completely dissatisfied with the setup. i only paid so it could be done better than i could. (im competent at setting up my own guitars just wanted to make sure the floyd was bang on before is started putting her into regular duty. so i take it back and you can tell the guy isnt happy to see it. so he ends up jacking the bridge up to fix the buzz and that was about it. "if its stll buzzing just bring the bridge up a bit more" he says . real good on a shred guitar eh??

2nd time was enough. ended up redoing everything myself the way it should have been done in the first place by the 'professional'. took me about 15 minutes to get the d-tuna set up and working no issues. and this guy is supposed to be a professional guitar tech? decided id never ever get work done again from that guy.

anyways free setup time comes around and i decide to give him a shot at redemption with my beater campfire guitar that i dont play often. guitar played great before no issues just wanted to see what he was gonna do. he added relief to the neck, raised the action unnecessarily and AGAIN big smear of his fretboard conditioner on the body. 

Just absolute amateur work. Guys name is Rob at Long and Mcquade in Waterloo. Be weary. shoddy work and VERY poor attention to detail.

just a heads up.


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