# Simple Poll on Christmas



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Let's keep it to three simple choices here.


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

I get a week off from work, and so lots of time to see grandchildren. My son and his wife are coming to visit from the states, with two little grandchildren I have never seen. Can't wait!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I enjoy the time off, but do not enjoy the sense of entitlement and greed that seems to go along with christmas.

I wonder how many would still celebrate it if the commercial elements were missing.

Frankly I think gifts are more meaningful when given at random times. I feel the same about Valentines Day. Giving gifts because the merchants promote such a day is far less meaningful than just randomly giving something to the ones you love, for no other reason than to remind them.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

I am 100% with Milkman here. And about any commercialized holiday event really. I hate the "expectation of entitlement" that is what these events are much much much more about. Never mind that I am not philosophically aligned with the agency in who's name the majority of these holidays are celebrated, it is the crass dollar I most strongly find objectionable.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

'Tis the season to be greedy, fa la la la la, la la la la.

It's a bit of a chore, really. I like the two weeks off I give myself, and the fact that my kids come home for a few days, I don't see them nearly enough. As a practicing Christian (raised by an Anglican cleryman, what can I say), I like the original spirit of it all, but heartily dislike the crass commercialism and entitlement that has grown around it. The bullsh!t that goes with it is part gluttony, part greed, part ignorance, part exploitation, part deceit, part hypocracy, and I'd really rather celebrate it without all that.

I always feel the best when, on Christmas afternoon, I can walk along the shore and worship in God's natural church, with the wind on my face and my loved ones nearby. However you celebrate it, Merry Christmas anyway. 

Peace, Mooh.


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## geezer (Apr 30, 2008)

My wife and I own a small custom Home furnishings business and most people turn into A-holes
if it isn't possible for the delivery of their furniture by Christmas.It's like if they can't have it by then 
why did they even order it (even though it will last probably at least 100 years).This year the family
have all decided to give homemade and scrounged gifts...should be fun.To me having family and friends together for food,drinks and laughs is all that matters.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i hope i get to go home and see my grandson, but i'm going to wait until the airports calm down a little


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

>_> if you are talking about a USA airport, I hope to heck to NEVER have to suffer one of them >_> they have simply gone insane down there. Frankly, a LOT simpler to just wall off the flight deck than to worry if someone has a file up their wahhzoo to try to make the pilot crash a plane... and what has a 9 year old boy POSSIBLY got to warrant an public strip search and body groping (all caught on cell phone and published all over the web) anyways gahhhh what a national embarrassment that is.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

well, i agree with what you say in your post. i said months ago here on another thread that we should adopt the same methods that has earned israel a perfect safety record. the core of it is profiling. not popular with some folks, and i can understand why some might get nervous at the idea. however, the current random screening we are currently using has no logical advantage. it appeases special interest groups and lawyers. lawmakers like it because it seems to make them look compasionate, and they don't have to worry about the security problems it creates. they of course, always fly privately.
i am beginning to wonder if it might not be a better idea to charter a small plane to take me back to delaware when i go. 
when you figure the cost of flying commercial, and factor in the b.s. you have to go through, as well as the delays at the airport, it might just pay to avoid the commercial airlines. another advantage would be the ability to land in wilmington. commercial carriers would be dropping me in philadelphia, or baltimore. at $463 USD/person including taxes, for 4 of us, (that's the cheapest flight that doesn't send me all the way to orlando fla on the way to philly) that adds up to over $1800. i suspect i could get a cessna 206 or a beech baron to take me there and back for that much or less. then i wouldn't have to deal with the tsa, or any of the other stupid garbage people are forced to deal with at the airport.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I'd be somewhere in between the first & second choices.
It's not my favorite holiday--I prefer Easter for example.
It's also not sometime I kind of put up with.

I enjoy it, but don''t wild over it.
It's been a pattern in my family for a number of years to scale back on Christmas.

Works for me.
We still get together & stuff, but the focus is more on the people and getting together...


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## Metal#J# (Jan 1, 2007)

This is the second year my family won't be celebrating Christmas. My kids are 6 and 7 and in previous years they have been so spoiled it was hard to watch. Nobody on either side of our families would respect the fact that we were trying to raise our kids to look past the novelty of meaningless monetary items......so we ended it completely. We give each other one gift on new years eve and there's no surprises. Everyone gets what they want within reason so there's no disappointment. 

So far I think things have worked out. My daughter has little interest in toys, even at 7, and my son already understands that quality is better than quantity. Last year they even let us give most of their gifts away. Some people think were depriving them of a childhood by doing this......I think/hope they'll grow up to appreciate it. 

So yeah.......bah! humbug! Undoing tradition is definitely a chore!


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

We like it.. the wife gets to give out the stuff she has been collecting from yard sales all year. Really dig the food part. 

Funny thing happened yesterday that DOESN"T happen to guitar players... I played trombone on a parade float yesterday.. my slide froze while I was sliding to another note...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Every Christmas I have to drive to Orillia and back to deliver my wife to the in-laws. I'm the only driver in the family, so it's me or nothing. I don't drink, can't eat sugar or anything dairy, don't read fiction, don't do Wii, and don't do outdoor things. I'm not one for smalltalk, either (particularly if it involves the topics of vacations. luxury items, or financial matters), and am exceedingly uncomfortable around luxury. The in-laws have a huge house, chock full of "fine things", with the possible exception of adequate heating and enough bathrooms. The extended family attends and brings wads of baking, WADS of wine, and there are all manner of exorbitant gifts exchanged. So I chop vegetables for something to do, and maybe get to dash out to Bulk Barn for stuff. I wait patiently for 3-4 days, smile once in a while, accept it when my wife says "That's too sweet for you", try to sleep through the 1AM carolling around the piano downstairs, and then I have to drive everyone back home to Ottawa. Then it's back to work with no break for hobby time. The only highlight is if I get permission to quickly dip into Toronto on the way there or back and buy parts.

Ask me how I like Xmas. This is why I tell people that I have never had a "vacation" in my life that was as easy and relaxed as going to work. Call it "humbug". I call it 4 or 5 vacation days used that I'll never get back again.


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## Alex Csank (Jul 22, 2010)

I used to love this time of year... a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. But, having watched the holidays become more and more about 'consumerism' than anything else, and having experienced financial set-backs, divorce, custody crap and the rest of my life's baggage, the season has become my least-favorite time of the year.

I remember seeing a poor single mom crying as she tried to come up enough money to get some simple and very inexpensive gifts for her children at a discount store when my kids were also still young.... and she was not alone in her desperation and sadness. I gave her what I could afford, and decided that my kids would get one less gift each so I could help her out. Giving her that money made me feel a bit better, but upon reflection, I realized just how controlled we are as a people by the 'corporations', who have made the simple gesture of gift-giving become the biggest marketing ploy ever known.

Don't get me wrong, I am an old softy, and I still well-up with tears when watching old Christmas movies, or seeing my loved ones open their gifts... or when getting something thoughtful from them myself. Although I have scaled-back, and my kids are now all grown-up, it is still hard for me to watch the struggling parents as they try and stretch their meager earnings to satisfy the desires of their children, friends and family according to the bible of marketing.

Disagree or disagree, I don't mean to depress anyone... I'm just calling it as I see it. I hope you all enjoy your holidays season.


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

This will be the first year that our immediate family (Mom, Dad and 2 kids in their 20's) have decided to take what we would normally spend on each other at this time of year and parlay that into a donation to a charity (not a Christmas charity). We'll see how it goes.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Not a fan either, i also hate the long drawn out visits with the inlaws where no one speaks english.
New years is not much better, they are party till 3 I am movie and in bed at 11.

Also not a fan of food and having it forced on me, a few years ago I told my girl before we get there to tell her family to not force me to eat. After being told to eat many times I told her one more time and im gone. Two min later I was told to eat, got my jacket and left.
She was pissed and I didn't care.

My brother who is doing well sponsored a family last year with gifts, food and everything they needed for the Christmas.
They didn't buy gifts, he said the kids get whatever they want year round so whats the point of giving to them on this one day?

My girls asked for laptops and blackberrys...
Yea right!


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Every Christmas I have to drive to Orillia and back to deliver my wife to the in-laws. I'm the only driver in the family, so it's me or nothing. I don't drink, can't eat sugar or anything dairy, don't read fiction, don't do Wii, and don't do outdoor things. I'm not one for smalltalk, either (particularly if it involves the topics of vacations. luxury items, or financial matters), and am exceedingly uncomfortable around luxury. The in-laws have a huge house, chock full of "fine things", with the possible exception of adequate heating and enough bathrooms. The extended family attends and brings wads of baking, WADS of wine, and there are all manner of exorbitant gifts exchanged. So I chop vegetables for something to do, and maybe get to dash out to Bulk Barn for stuff. I wait patiently for 3-4 days, smile once in a while, accept it when my wife says "That's too sweet for you", try to sleep through the 1AM carolling around the piano downstairs, and then I have to drive everyone back home to Ottawa. Then it's back to work with no break for hobby time. The only highlight is if I get permission to quickly dip into Toronto on the way there or back and buy parts.
> 
> Ask me how I like Xmas. This is why I tell people that I have never had a "vacation" in my life that was as easy and relaxed as going to work. Call it "humbug". I call it 4 or 5 vacation days used that I'll never get back again.


hey Mark, there is a GREAT store in Newmarket called the ARTS! LOADS of guitars of all makes and price points. REALLY nice folks work there. A bunch of us live in the area, maybe we should get together and jam?


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Alex Csank said:


> I used to love this time of year... a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. But, having watched the holidays become more and more about 'consumerism' than anything else, and having experienced financial set-backs, divorce, custody crap and the rest of my life's baggage, the season has become my least-favorite time of the year.
> 
> I remember seeing a poor single mom crying as she tried to come up enough money to get some simple and very inexpensive gifts for her children at a discount store when my kids were also still young.... and she was not alone in her desperation and sadness. I gave her what I could afford, and decided that my kids would get one less gift each so I could help her out. Giving her that money made me feel a bit better, but upon reflection, I realized just how controlled we are as a people by the 'corporations', who have made the simple gesture of gift-giving become the biggest marketing ploy ever known.
> 
> ...


You're not depressing anyone. It's a sad reality and most people I know feel that way too. We have turned EVERY occasion into an orgy of consumerism (I mean come on Halloween is turning into Christmas!) I like to have a few days off to spend with my family. I admit that now that I have a little one Christmas is more fun, but she knows she can't have everything. The haves have Too much and the have nots not enough.. The universe is unfolding as it should right?


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

If you can ignore the commercialism, Christmas can be great! My background is Polish so we have great traditions that help make it a special time of year. Its not my favorite time of year, but I do enjoy it and make the best of it.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I love it. There's just something about the time that makes me feel "warm". I agree with others that the commercialism and greed suck but that's becoming true with so many things and so many times - I mean, when did Halloween become so big with decorations?

For me, Christmas is a time to slow it down a bit, get a real tree, bring out some decorations that were special to my parents (who are now long gone) and watch some old movies that remind me of the good that there is/can be. I love the music too .......... Bing, Elvis, Carpenters.

So, I guess it's a very internal thing for me ...... other than the sheer magic that I see in my grandson's eyes.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I used to like it,.. until I got married. Then it was Christmas at our place, then at my parents, then her parents and after our daughter was born, it was wrapping presents until mid-night in addition to all that three Xmas'. Oh what a chore, and then it became, Oh Gawd!!! Not Xmas again!!! Thank GOD it's December 27th! etc....


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...love the opportunity to get together with friends and family, but it ends there. 

gifts for the wee'uns only. we opted out of the idiotic consumerism years ago, and have never regretted it.

christmas is now, finally, stress-free, and something to look forward to, instead of dreading.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Wow, what a bunch of downers!

While I take exception to everything ugly about the commercialism of holidays I can still focus on the simple pleasures, like continuing with traditions my parents (and theirs) left us with as well as creating and maintaining a few of our own.

Something as simple as my Christmas glass of Gran Marnier while I watch (and marvel at for the 1000th time) It's a Wonderful Life. We have also held a family get-together the Sunday before Christmas since 1951 - a year has never been missed. It seems a right pain in the butt, but it was important to those before me and I won't be the one to break the chain - out of respect to them if for no other reason.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...actually, all we're doing is taking "exception to everything ugly about the commercialism of holidays".

same as you.



allthumbs56 said:


> Wow, what a bunch of downers!
> 
> While I take exception to everything ugly about the commercialism of holidays I can still focus on the simple pleasures, like continuing with traditions my parents (and theirs) left us with as well as creating and maintaining a few of our own.
> 
> Something as simple as my Christmas glass of Gran Marnier while I watch (and marvel at for the 1000th time) It's a Wonderful Life. We have also held a family get-together the Sunday before Christmas since 1951 - a year has never been missed. It seems a right pain in the butt, but it was important to those before me and I won't be the one to break the chain - out of respect to them if for no other reason.


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## Chubba (Aug 23, 2009)

I love this time of year....i generally tune out the carols and the decorations and the malls and stores...that stuff doesn't really matter...my universe (now) is relatively small so i can kind of ignore that, and focus on the people around me that really matter.

Being part of a large french canadian family, my fondest memories of christmas are eating cookies my grandmother made, while a parade of relatives stopped by at different times over a couple of days...

Now, christmas day is spent with my kids, my wife, my parents and my sister...we do gifts, (and i'm thankful, and know that we're fortunate to be able to do so), but it's a small part of christmas morning...we get together a few times a year, but I like Christmas best, because we all actually spend the day together, there's just generally less stress, and we all get along just a bit better...and between making the traditional family christmas breakfast (loL), enjoying the cookies my sister now makes, or helping my dad with the bottle of rye we bring too late for his November birthday, it's my favourite time of year...


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Chubba said:


> I love this time of year....i generally tune out the carols and the decorations and the malls and stores...that stuff doesn't really matter...my universe (now) is relatively small so i can kind of ignore that, and focus on the people around me that really matter.
> 
> Being part of a large french canadian family, my fondest memories of christmas are eating cookies my grandmother made, while a parade of relatives stopped by at different times over a couple of days...
> 
> Now, christmas day is spent with my kids, my wife, my parents and my sister...we do gifts, (and i'm thankful, and know that we're fortunate to be able to do so), but it's a small part of christmas morning...we get together a few times a year, but I like Christmas best, because we all actually spend the day together, there's just generally less stress, and we all get along just a bit better...and between making the traditional family christmas breakfast (loL), enjoying the cookies my sister now makes, or helping my dad with the bottle of rye we bring too late for his November birthday, it's my favourite time of year...


Hear, hear.. Christmas just isn't the same for me now in Ontario, WAY different traditions and mindsets on the east coast, but I do my best. Christmas eve is Cabbage rolls and Lasagna (like at moms) New Jammies for my little one and wrapping after she goes to bed. I miss boxing day at the pub with my brother and friends, but I like playing games with my Wee one better... I shop online and try to avoid the hassel (I think like most of us do) And cook WAY too much food (just like my mother did) 

Peace...


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)




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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

My favourite Santa ever (yeah, I know - he didn't kiss Jian Ghomeshis ass!)


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## Peter (Mar 25, 2008)

Every year I ask for exclusively guitar pedals, christmas is good!

In all seriousness though, I enjoy the food and the time spent with friends and family. I moved away from the town I grew up in so taking a moment to catch up with some friends I wouldn't normally see alot is cool, as is lots and lots of good food. The family, I love some, some I don't. All in all it's usually good times.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I know the background of Christmas and without making this a religious thread that we've been asked to avoid, it's a sham, disgusting and also the worst time of year for a lot of people. Here are some "practical" or secular reasons I hate it.

1) Parents lie to their kids about Santa Claus (so they're basically teaching their kids it's ok to lie sometimes, which it's not IMO)
2) It's a time of year when there is more drinking, licentious behavior and other immoral behaviour than at any other time of the year.
3) It's the most dangerous time to be on the road due to the increased DUI.
4) There are more suicides this time of year because it's supposed to be a "happy" time of year and many desperately lonely people are pushed over the "edge".

I haven't celebrated christmas since 1984. Do we give gifts? Yes, all year round and because they are unexpected they elicit more joy than any gift I've ever given at christmas time.


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

It is fun to read all the attitudes and feelings around this holiday. Didn't like it as much years back when it was an all-consuming festival of travelling and commitments to give gifts and visit endlessly with the big family. In that way I am with Hammer and Robert1950, but I gave that up years ago. 

I also find it facinating that the Christian holiday was actually created, or at the very least, hijacked by, totally pagan symbols and rituals (the date, the xmas tree, etc) and the corporate jugernaut, and has very little to do with its proposed purpose for the most part. 

I like Xmas, but there is nothing for me to vote on because I can't actually claim it is my favourite time of the year. Love and relationships do seem to be highlighted in many ways and that is great. It certainly doesn't offend or annoy me, but I understand the reasons for feeling less than jovial about it for some. 

I like Starbucks' idea the best, if I lived in the area I would be all over the jamming idea over the holidays!

off to put up some xmas lights, happy holidays to everyone!


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

ive always looked at christmas as a special time, everything seems a bit more unique at christmas. things like fresh air, the way things smell etc. i dont know why.
but ive never been big on the way things are done at christmas- i remember my mom always would be so stressed out about it- the gifts she bought, the food she made, the cards she sent- so incredibly stressful for her. and it still is- i dunno why she does it. i hate that side of it all, and have tried to enjoy christmas for what it is.
unfortunately, the family get togethers are full of people i dont really know, and im painfully uncomfortable in crowds. im also always the only one there who lives the way i do, so im a strange dude. even amongst immediate family im getting a "pity vibe".
im not interested in cars, or furniture, or drapes, or clothes- so im a loser lol. total fish out of water situation for me when i go to these things.
and i hate turkey. i only get christmas day off- so its not what id call a holiday- and i treasure my days off.
last year i stayed home by myself. cooked a steak. roasted chestnuts. drank a bunch, listened to good tunes and shot at beer cans with my pellet gun. was fantastic- but i wont be that lucky this year. i am filled with dread.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

My daughter is 28 and she just emailed me pictures of Christmas tree (real), decorated apartment and balcony. She still loves the festive thing. I don't think I'll get that 'Bah Humbug' t-shirt I was thinking of getting. She'd skin me alive.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

fraser said:


> but ive never been big on the way things are done at christmas- i remember my mom always would be so stressed out about it- the gifts she bought, the food she made, the cards she sent- so incredibly stressful for her. and it still is- i dunno why she does it.and i hate turkey. i only get christmas day off- so its not what id call a holiday- and i treasure my days off.
> last year i stayed home by myself. cooked a steak. roasted chestnuts. drank a bunch, listened to good tunes and shot at beer cans with my pellet gun. was fantastic- but i wont be that lucky this year. i am filled with dread.


Well I think it's that (for me and my family anyway) We women are the ones who plan everything. From the shopping to the meals to the decorating. We do it all. I am under so much pressure (mostly self inflicted I know) Cause I really want everyone to enjoy themselves. I want to make the best meal and buy meaningful gifts without breaking the bank. I remember my Mom always saying "bah, what holiday? I don't get a holiday" I totally so get that now. I'll be the one up before everyone makeing sure everything is right and making the special Christmas Breakfast... Then on to dinner. I love it and hate it at the same time. Part of me wishes someone would do it all for me, but the control freak in me (and I suspect most women) would never allow it. All most men do is just show up. (not bashing you if you do, it's just the way it is 

Fras, your christmas sounds fantastic! I think I'll have a great big bonfire Christmas night! 

Whatever you all do.. Enjoy.


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## Alex Csank (Jul 22, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> Well I think it's that (for me and my family anyway) We women are the ones who plan everything. From the shopping to the meals to the decorating. We do it all. I am under so much pressure (mostly self inflicted I know) Cause I really want everyone to enjoy themselves. I want to make the best meal and buy meaningful gifts without breaking the bank. I remember my Mom always saying "bah, what holiday? I don't get a holiday" I totally so get that now. I'll be the one up before everyone makeing sure everything is right and making the special Christmas Breakfast... Then on to dinner. I love it and hate it at the same time. Part of me wishes someone would do it all for me, but the control freak in me (and I suspect most women) would never allow it. All most men do is just show up. (not bashing you if you do, it's just the way it is


Hey Starbuck, I know that many men and women still fill the same roles which were the norm back when Christ was a Corporal, Howdy Doody had just discovered that he had wooden balls and Beaver Cleaver was an acceptable name for a 10 year-old boy... but some of us Neanderthals have actually evolved a little. I planned, shopped, cooked, decorated, served, set the table, cleaned, looked after the kids, played Santa, and entertained friends and relatives more than either of my two ex-wives ever did, and I was still the primary bread-winner (I'm just lousy at picking partners). I'm not saying that the whole world has changed, just that it isn't ALWAYS the woman who gets all the stress and work on the holidays.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

keeperofthegood said:


> I am 100% with Milkman here. And about any commercialized holiday event really. I hate the "expectation of entitlement" that is what these events are much much much more about. Never mind that I am not philosophically aligned with the agency in who's name the majority of these holidays are celebrated, it is the crass dollar I most strongly find objectionable.


I'm in agreement here as well. It seems when you try to buck the commercial aspect of the holiday you are looked on as the scrooge. I don't dare spoil it for the rest of the family so I continue on the tradition of making the merchants rich. Just like on Valentines day. I can't possibly take a philosophical stand against that without looking like someone who doesn't think enough of his wife to buy her roses for 4 times their value.
I would love to opt out of all this commercialism.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Alex Csank said:


> Hey Starbuck, I know that many men and women still fill the same roles which were the norm back when Christ was a Corporal, Howdy Doody had just discovered that he had wooden balls and Beaver Cleaver was an acceptable name for a 10 year-old boy... but some of us Neanderthals have actually evolved a little. I planned, shopped, cooked, decorated, served, set the table, cleaned, looked after the kids, played Santa, and entertained friends and relatives more than either of my two ex-wives ever did, and I was still the primary bread-winner (I'm just lousy at picking partners). I'm not saying that the whole world has changed, just that it isn't ALWAYS the woman who gets all the stress and work on the holidays.


+1 on this comment. I think times have changed. Today guys get way more involved in the whole process. In my case I have always done a little more because, I guess I'm a bit of a control freak myself.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

ne1roc said:


> +1 on this comment. I think times have changed. Today guys get way more involved in the whole process. In my case I have always done a little more because, I guess I'm a bit of a control freak myself.


LOL! Good for you guys! There are fewer of youthank you think (at least talking to women I work with and all my friends) Glad to hear the times they are a changin!


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

My dad was the turkey cooker, so am I. He'd be 95 if he was still around.

A few years ago my daughter cooked a turkey for a bunch of girlfriends for thanksgiving after I gave her the instructions. Turned out well. None of those twenty somethings had a clue of what to do.


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> LOL! Good for you guys! There are fewer of youthank you think (at least talking to women I work with and all my friends) Glad to hear the times they are a changin!


don't forget Starbuck you are on a site full of sensitive artsy/muscian type guys,... I fit into that catagory too I'm afraid.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

bluesmostly said:


> don't forget Starbuck you are on a site full of sensitive artsy/muscian type guys,... I fit into that catagory too I'm afraid.


You know what? You may just have a point there. But then I'm not your typical woman either. Works, cooks, cleans, mows lawns, mountianbikes, rock climbs, plays guitar, does basic home repair.... AND HATES SHOPPING!!!!


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> You know what? You may just have a point there. But then I'm not your typical woman either. Works, cooks, cleans, mows lawns, mountianbikes, rock climbs, plays guitar, does basic home repair.... AND HATES SHOPPING!!!!


Right on! throw "sexy" onto that list and you've got most guy's dream girl,... but I think we digress, back to christmas.


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