# Recommend a luthier...



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Hi Guys,

I've decided that I love the look of a les paul, but can't deal with their necks. I've been babied with the Ernie Ball line.

I'm looking for someone who can take an ernie ball neck (from the SUB or Sterling series) and fit it to a les paul body with single coils.

One concern is that I don't like the idea of an ernie ball headstock with an LP neck. Not sure what to do about that.

I'm also not sure how I feel about the look of the single coils. I found one image on-line of an LP with them, and it wasn't too bad. I just prefer the sound of single coils these days.

Not sure where to go and how to get this accomplished. Any ideas would be appreciated.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

My idea is...before you get this guitar put-together, try ESP/LTD version and see if that neck suits you better. They are much different than a Gibson neck.

As to the pickups, Lindy Fralin makes a model called P92. They are single coils that are split and staggered so that they buck the hum just like a humbucker. 

Here is a pic of a Les Paul Studio that I had with a set of P92 in it:


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## noman (Jul 24, 2006)

The only guy I would trust to do that kind of work is Michael McConnville in Stratford. He could probably accomplish that but man, I don't want to know the price of something like that.............


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Time to realize you have the wrong guitar.

I you really want to do this pick up an old Japanese knock off with bolt on neck and start there.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Sounds too me like you're bored and have way too much expendable income!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I too wouldnt build that. Just get an SSS albert lee.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

davetcan said:


> Time to realize you have the wrong guitar.
> 
> I you really want to do this pick up an old Japanese knock off with bolt on neck and start there.


I honestly don't think they make a right guitar (for me anyway). If this doesn't satisfy my gas, I'm gonna start drumming.

I currently own the best guitar I've ever owned - which is the EBMM AL SSS (for tone and playability). It's my favourite style that EB puts out, but I'm caught up in the looks of the Les Paul which I greatly prefer. 

I was told to check out bulldog guitar parts for the body by Gian at Lil' Demons and grab an EB neck (not very easy to do), and he can likely do it for me. He has a petrucci neck that he's looking to throw on a ricky body himself, so he may be my guy. I've tried contacting the guys at bulldog, but I'm still waiting to hear back.

My father has a CNC machine at his house and said he'll do it, but I know what that means...it'll look awesome when it's halfway done and sitting on his work bench forever.

I'll be continually looking for things that'll make this work.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Chitmo said:


> Sounds too me like you're bored and have way too much expendable income!


Haha, right.

I've sold a bunch of guitars and saved it all. I haven't spent anything on gear for a bit and sold the es-339, 76' tele, deluxe strat, and a couple of pricey pedals. 

There isn't anything I want out there - I have tried everything at cosmo and 12th Fret and nothing grabs me. 

You're right though - with nothing gear-related occupying my mind, I am bored.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

If I were you I'd just have a guitar made to my spec's, there's nothing better than a guitar custom made for you.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Something like this?


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## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

Have you checked out the Collings 360 ST? I've never played one, but seems to be the vibe you are going for.

http://www.collingsguitars.com/Instruments/?ID=78


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Or drop a pair of these in it.

http://www.fralinpickups.com/humbuckers.asp#big

- - - Updated - - -

Love the look of that.



Scottone said:


> Have you checked out the Collings 360 ST? I've never played one, but seems to be the vibe you are going for.
> 
> http://www.collingsguitars.com/Instruments/?ID=78


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## Guest (Sep 13, 2014)

find a cheap Epi/Ltd on kijiji. shave the neck 'till it suits you.
keep the buckers for the looks, but, split the coils. between 
you n' your dad, I'm sure you can make a nice prototype.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I photoshopped what I know I'd like. I've decided that dark desert burst is my favourite.

If I can get my hands on a cheap used sterling ball LK100D or maybe a JP100 (I'll have to go back to Cosmo to try it), I can take off the neck (they are the exact neck carve at half the price).

I guess I can try to find an LP in this colour, but I'll definitely wait to see what Bulldog can do for me.

I'll either get my dad or Gian to do the shaving (likely Gian, since he can also do the burst)

Then, I'll just grab those Fralins and I should be on my way (me thinks)

Behold, the *Les Ball:*



I'm actually shocked to see that the headstock doesn't look that outta place.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Don't forget you have to deal with the scale issue as well. I think most of those EB's are 25.5, no? 

But I do loves me some flamey Les Paul with a B7. That is just sex made of wood and steel, IMO.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

High/Deaf said:


> Don't forget you have to deal with the scale issue as well. I think most of those EB's are 25.5, no?
> 
> But I do loves me some flamey Les Paul with a B7. That is just sex made of wood and steel, IMO.


Yes, there is the difference. I don't fully understand why differing scales won't work, but I'll read up in it. I hope it's not a dead end.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Neg click was accidental!

Your lp body will have to be made not bought, bridge placement changes with scale length.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

What about something from Warmoth?

http://www.warmoth.com/Pages/ClassicShowcase.aspx?Body=2&Type=5&Path=Regal


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

sulphur said:


> What about something from Warmoth?
> 
> http://www.warmoth.com/Pages/ClassicShowcase.aspx?Body=2&Type=5&Path=Regal


I could kiss you.

It's right there on the bottom in a desert burst with a 25.5 scale and holes for a bigsby.

Now, I just have to understand how neck pockets work (along with a couple of other things - like stud install) before I order


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Very interesting and certainly unique! 

Please keep us updated with the build.

Cheers

Dave


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## nnieman (Jun 19, 2013)

It definitely looks better than I though it would. 
Different isnt a bad thing in this case, I especially like the painted headstock.
I second going the warmoth route, I've had great success with their products. Plus it's going to be way cheaper than getting a custom guitar made....especially if you're not 100% sure if this idea is going to work.

Nathan


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## Axe Dragon (Aug 21, 2013)

If you can spend call Freddy Gabrsek in Niagara-on-the-Lake. His company is Freddy's Frets. He's the best in my opinion. Unmatched quality. You can YouTube some of his work. Check out "The Blaggard". Not the LP you're looking for, but rather a super high quality incredible sounding tele. Worth a listen for sure. 

http://youtu.be/zmji_EnW5jQ


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## Stratotone (Jan 29, 2014)

I like where you are going with this but can't help thinking you need to try out the EBMM Reflex Gamechanger which allows multiple combinations of singlecoils. I haven't seen or tried one yet but it looks very interesting and has the mahogany tone block. Available in HH and HSH but that is just the starting point since each Humbucker can be split into separate singles. If anyone has tried one I would love to hear about it.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Axe Dragon said:


> If you can spend call Freddy Gabrsek in Niagara-on-the-Lake. His company is Freddy's Frets. He's the best in my opinion. Unmatched quality. You can YouTube some of his work. Check out "The Blaggard". Not the LP you're looking for, but rather a super high quality incredible sounding tele. Worth a listen for sure.
> 
> http://youtu.be/zmji_EnW5jQ


Thanks Axe Dragon,

I am really looking for something pretty specific. That certainly sounded great though.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Stratotone said:


> I like where you are going with this but can't help thinking you need to try out the EBMM Reflex Gamechanger which allows multiple combinations of singlecoils. I haven't seen or tried one yet but it looks very interesting and has the mahogany tone block. Available in HH and HSH but that is just the starting point since each Humbucker can be split into separate singles. If anyone has tried one I would love to hear about it.


I'm on the Ernie Ball forum no and again (it's dryer than my grandma's...dryer...over there). 

They have a sticky thread dedicated to the game changer, and unfortunately, I don't have the degree or patience required to mess with that thing. Also, the reflex isn't my favourite EB style.

If you go over there, check it out - the forum members love it.

I have spoken with Seymour Duncan's custom shop (well, more like their inadequate customer service rep who needs a good slap) about making me Albert Lee single coils in a humbucker casing, and they said they can probably do it. I'll be adding a bit more sizzle to the bridge pup though. That is hands down my favourite tone.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Update:

Gian at lil' demons has agreed to take on the project. He offered me a les paul body for $50 (after he saw the price of the warmoth). I'll have to turn it to the burst colour I want, but it'll still save me about $300.

He will have to get a jig made to accommodate the carved top when he routes out the neck pocket. It will take a lot of meat out between the neck and the pickup, but I don't think that'll be an issue.

Gian is actually going to do something similar with an EB neck he has in the shop, so I'm confident that he'll be able to do this.

As for pick-ups, see above post.

As for acquiring the neck: this has been the biggest pain in the ass, cause I'm trying to do it as cost effectively as possible. The OLP or SUB Ernie Ball necks simply don't cut it. I tried the Sterlings, and they are accurate to the standard more expensive models. They have a weird finish, but I know how to get the EB finish, so I'm not concerned.

I have found a used Luke on line that is $100 more than an actual Luke Sterling, so I may bite the bullet on that. 

I think that's it for now. I'll let you guys know how things progress.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2014)

looking forward to it.


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## Axe Dragon (Aug 21, 2013)

adcandour said:


> Thanks Axe Dragon,
> 
> I am really looking for something pretty specific. That certainly sounded great though.


Don't get my wrong. He'll build exactly what you want and it will turn out amazing.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Axe Dragon said:


> Don't get my wrong. He'll build exactly what you want and it will turn out amazing.


Thanks again. I don't know if I could ask anyone to make a copy of an EB neck - they are very litigious when it comes to them. If there are any hiccups with the current route, I'll look closer at what is involved with working with Freddy's frets.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

adcandour said:


> Update:
> 
> Gian at lil' demons has agreed to take on the project. He offered me a les paul body for $50 (after he saw the price of the warmoth). I'll have to turn it to the burst colour I want, but it'll still save me about $300.
> 
> ...


Should be interesting, are you taking a body that was probably made for 22 or 24 fret, 24.625" scale set neck and using a 21 fret bolt neck that's 25.5" scale? Have you figured out where the neck pup pole pieces will end up relative to the scale length?


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Jimmy_D said:


> Should be interesting, are you taking a body that was probably made for 22 or 24 fret, 24.625" scale set neck and using a 21 fret bolt neck that's 25.5" scale? Have you figured out where the neck pup pole pieces will end up relative to the scale length?


Exactly, we'll go this route first, since this way I'm essentially using a $50 body to test on, before forking out cash for a warmoth (which has the 25.5 scale). If it works , I'll be ecstatic. I want to go by tomorrow, but it will likely be mid-week next week - we'll be looking at everything a little closer then.

Here is the body:


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Went into cosmo today to sit and try some sub series Ernie Ball models.

Firstly, let me tell you how impressed I was with the service. I stood at the repairs counter and was asked 3 times if I had been taken care of. Nice. A tech came out and I asked if he could lower the action on a guitar I was trying, and he didn't without making me feel like a nuisance. 

After he saw I was going to buy it, we chatted about how I only wanted the neck. He then took all similar models with him to the back to find me the best neck. One had a slight twist (but felt and looked great to me), and one had uneven frets. The one I took home was perfect.

Anyway, this is what I grabbed. It just needs some fret filing and steel wool and ernie lube for the neck.

I'm on my way:

LP body: $50
EB neck: $239 (cheaper than any warmoth me thinks)
Seymour custom shops: $300 for a pair of humbucker sized single coils wound to Albert Lee spec (I got the call yesterday saying they can do it)
Pickguard: Free

Now I just need a bigsby, schaller M6 locking tuners, and a colour change


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Very nice.


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## Guest (Sep 19, 2014)

I'll be following this as well. I love projects. When it comes to painting/staining the body, the 
detail is with the binding. I did an El Degas ES 345. The binding was a pain to deal with. Found 
two options. Paint it, then carefully scrape the paint with a razor, or mask it with 1/4" painter's 
tape. Did both methods. My eyes aren't all that great anymore so it was tough following the lines. 
There was bleed under which the razor took care of ok. But, there were spots where I covered 
a bit of the body. Argh! Redo. Then came the wet sand. Went too deep at spots (another redo).
I came to the point where a little orange peel won't bother me.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Still moving along with the Les Ball. Got a few goodies today. I'll be sanding down the sterling neck soon and applying the same finish as the higher end EBMMs.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Argh!!!

This is sooo slow going....

I finally get my hands on the body, so I can paint the headstock to match. I think I'll just match it to the darkest hue? Haven't really checked into it but will tonight.

Though I might as well post what I did to the neck. I've sanded off the logo and added the different style fret markers. I purchased cheap ones, just to see how they look and feel. Honestly, I'm not that impressed with how they feel, but they look nice enough.

I may spring for the more expensive ones now that I know the end result. I also need to change the application strategy (center of the neck at the top and center at the bottom, draw pencil line across neck and center to the fret marker)


Before:




After:


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2014)

They do look better than just dots.
You mentioned feel. I'd be concerned about 
them lifting as you stretch the strings playing. 
They are stickers I presume?


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

laristotle said:


> They do look better than just dots.
> You mentioned feel. I'd be concerned about
> them lifting as you stretch the strings playing.
> They are stickers I presume?


After reading your post, I thought I'd apply the remaining stickers (they _are_ stickers) to my already strung albert lee - to see if I could bend them off. Well,... they didn't budge. There's so much clearance between the string and them that there's no chance of it.

I'm playing 9s, so I figure if anything is going to bend and scrape them off, it would be these strings.

Here's where I got them, but I'm positive there are higher end ones out there (I'm actually going to go looking now).

http://www.inlaysticker.com/


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I was gonna say, you should never be able to feel your inlays unless it's a scalloped fretboard


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

So, now I've got the neck and the body. Looks like there's a lot of meat to dig into, so I should manage to match up the different scales.

One issue though - the neck is slightly larger than the neck pocket.




Here's the typical clearance on an EB neck from truss adjustment to pickup:


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

As your bridge post holes are already drilled there's only one location for that neck, the math will tell you where the neck has to sit and you have to work everything around that in terms of how it fits the existing pocket. 

Looking at that you'll be doing some work for sure to make it fit length-wise, the width is less of a problem but there's still some work to do there also. You can probably take care of both at once when you route the new neck pocket...

What's the scale length of that neck
What's the distance between the face of the nut and the heel of the neck
What's the distance between the center of the bridge post holes and the bottom of the neck pocket

edit; looking again it looks like it might be cut for a strat neck? if so that would be a good .


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

IMO, you'd be better off with a Strat-compatible neck to match that body. Keep the EB for something else.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

LydianGuitars said:


> IMO, you'd be better off with a Strat-compatible neck to match that body. Keep the EB for something else.


100%. It would make my life MUCH easier, since I believe warmoth builds these bodies to accommodate strat necks. If I can make this work, it will be the ultimate in style - and hopefully playability (for me). I simply play better with an EB neck. I've got to try.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Jimmy_D said:


> As your bridge post holes are already drilled there's only one location for that neck, the math will tell you where the neck has to sit and you have to work everything around that in terms of how it fits the existing pocket.
> 
> Looking at that you'll be doing some work for sure to make it fit length-wise, the width is less of a problem but there's still some work to do there also. You can probably take care of both at once when you route the new neck pocket...
> 
> ...


It is cut for a strat.

The body is 25.5 scale and the neck is 24.5. I worked it out with Jian a couple of months ago. I recall that as long as there was enough wood to carve out between the neck pup and the neck, we're good.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Why not just get a neck blank and have someone carve the EB profile for you?


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Budda said:


> Why not just get a neck blank and have someone carve the EB profile for you?


I don't know of anyone who would do that for me. If I could just hand someone the parts I have and pay for a neck, that would be amazing (I would actually go for the Lukather neck in this case).

The only issues I see are 1) finding someone who would actually do it (seems like a waste of time for a luthier), 2) It's a proprietary neck carve. I don't know how comfortable someone would be doing it, since it's not legal(I'm on the EB forum, and they actively track people down who copy their necks). And, 3) how accurately can a neck be copied? This, I'm uncertain about - I'm not familiar with the contour gauges associated with neck shaping, but it doesn't seem like it would be easy (I'm totally out of my element, so who knows?).


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)




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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

It's coming along. But the neck has got to go.


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2014)

too bad. looks purty though.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

adcandour said:


> It's coming along. But the neck has got to go.


Why, whats the issue?


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Jimmy_D said:


> Why, whats the issue?


To move the bridge forward, it'll swiss cheese the top too much. Plus, I didn't like the route job around the truss adjustment.

I can get a warmoth neck built to a lukather nut size and neck radius with and EVH neck carve that will fit the body perfectly and cover where some of the body was cut out (for the truss adjustment)

I'm going to cosmo in a few.minutes to try out the ebmm axis which is similar to the evh to see if I like it. 

I tried it last week and thought it was the nicest neck they had there. I just want to make sure.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

I was going to say what's the issue, intonation? but I thought I'd try to be nice for once. 

Anyhow I can't say I didn't see that coming, move the bridge, oh nooo... you really needed to do the math on that one (approach it starting at the fixed bridge) before cutting any wood because you have a couple of issues to deal with there, as you've found out.



Best of luck and keep posting til you're done, looking good so far.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Jimmy_D said:


> I was going to say what's the issue, intonation? but I thought I'd try to be nice for once.
> 
> Anyhow I can't say I didn't see that coming, move the bridge, oh nooo... you really needed to do the math on that one (approach it starting at the fixed bridge) before cutting any wood because you have a couple of issues to deal with there, as you've found out.
> 
> ...


I appreciate you going easy on me 

The main issue I have is with #1 pictured. The routing job was very poor. You can see it's far from straight, and I simply can't live with that - it would bug the hell outta me.

Everything else can be covered. There's more than enough space to move the bridge forward (less than 1/8" is all that's needed). All I would need is some decorative chrome thing to cover it.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Personally I see moving the bridge holes as a hassle, but you may be right that's it's easiest.

The alternatives are; moving the neck closer to the bridge, looks like you still have the room, especially if you grind as much as possible off the end face of the adjuster wheel.
You could either cut a shelf on the heel like a strat or you could re-cut the end of the neck pocket, then you just need a custom cover plate to match and fill the void between the neck pup and the neck.

Also a good possibility if you really truly only need to move them 1/8" is a custom stud that fits in your threaded holes but has offset posts, moving the bridge forward the required amount, but like I said using this method gets complicated if you need more than 1/8".

If you want to re-cut the pocket and clean it up the old route at the same time, or cut a shelf on that heel, you just need a good template, preferably one cut on a cnc. If you decide to go that route shoot me a pm, I probably know someone with a cnc who would do it for you for a large coffee and a pastry...


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## WannabeGood (Oct 24, 2007)

As far as the bridge goes, there are other solutions.......................with the Bigsby maybe an archtop/jazz type bridge could work or lose the Bigsby and look at a strat type bridge. Those you then place where you need them. I can see that working in my mind.

Regards,


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Jimmy_D said:


> Personally I see moving the bridge holes as a hassle, but you may be right that's it's easiest.
> 
> The alternatives are; moving the neck closer to the bridge, looks like you still have the room, especially if you grind as much as possible off the end face of the adjuster wheel.
> You could either cut a shelf on the heel like a strat or you could re-cut the end of the neck pocket, then you just need a custom cover plate to match and fill the void between the neck pup and the neck.
> ...


Yeah, shifting the bridge seems the easiest way (to me), but I can't get over the fvck up around the neck. It really looks bad and it needs to be covered. Thanks for the offer re your connection. I wouldn't feel right having anyone work for pastries - even if they were dufflets. I think I'll just go the warmoth route. Cost-wise, it isn't too out of whack.

Since it's going to take warmoth about 6 weeks to make my custom neck, I'll go grab the guitar in the meantime (just to hear the pups through my rig). I'll take a closer pick of the issue when I get a chance.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Finally, for a bit of closure to this thread:

Everything feels great (neck and body) - the quality of the warmoth parts (pronouced "war mith" - who knew?) is really good.

That schaller roller bridge is insanely stupid. I keep bending right off the bloody thing. 

Surprisingly, this guitar sounds more like a strat than an LP with the custom SDs I had made. A lot of cool tone to be had, but I'm playing through a modeller and can't wait to put it through a real test.

I'm playing this clip through a digital Cube 40 GX, so it was VERY HARD for me to add any soul/vibe/flavour/whatever to the notes, but I did what I could. I swear that Hey Joe backing track is too fast.

<span class="Apple-style-span">[video=youtube;ATt1LTAv7Yk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATt1LTAv7Yk[/video]


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

very interesting project


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