# Silverface 74 Deluxe Reverb or Carr Rambler - which would you choose?



## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

I couple weeks ago I got a chance to hear a 1970 sfdr with an upgraded JBL in it - it was amazing. The sound felt like it was going through me.

A few days ago, I got a chance to play the amp that's been at the too of my gas list - the Carr Rambler 112. It was likewise, amazing. Unfortunately, as there nothing on the used market, the option of shelling out 3k right now is not really there. I loved the reverb and trem on the Rambler, and I know they are tanks. It took pedals incredibly well. The headroom is very impressive, as is the compact size.

I do have a chance for a 1974 sfdr for a decent price. Unfortunately, trying before buying wouldn't be an option. The shop has a good rep, and it's described as mint with a couple caps replaced.

I intend for this to be my main amp - I would add a small backup. I suspect the Carr would be less of a project, but it would also cost twice as much. What do you guys think?


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Is there a master volume on it? ..Totally partial to the SF .....my only amp since 82... put in an old Jensen C12... perfect for my preference of Tele/Gretsch...tough as nails. No amp gas ever.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Deluxe never had a master Pat! Didn't follow in the footsteps of it's bigger brothers.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

Carr makes fine amps. I would never buy one new. I own a hammerhead II head and it's sweet. 

I'd say that if the deluxe is point to point, start there and then take it to an experienced local amp tech and push it further in your preferred direction. More fun, personal, rewarding , and unique. Ending up with a tailored tone all to your own. 

With $3k I could 
- get a used USA LP or Sg (of some sorts) $1000
- buy $150-$500 worth of vintage or custom pickups 
- get a personalized sweet refinish $500
- drop $550 on a respectable tube amp 
- $350 on 2-5 used pedals 
- $100 used pedal case and voila!!

I too am quite frugal. Enough said. 

Good luck


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

sambonee said:


> Carr makes fine amps. I would never buy one new. I own a hammerhead II head and it's sweet.
> 
> I'd say that if the deluxe is point to point, start there and then take it to an experienced local amp tech and push it further in your preferred direction. More fun, personal, rewarding , and unique. Ending up with a tailored tone all to your own.
> 
> ...


You forgot the new set of strings and polish thrown in.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Without knowing whether the DR already sounds good OR what it might need_ in order to _sound good, I'd be careful with the initial purchase price. While all of them can ultimately be massaged to sound good, some of them need more work than others to get there. "Untested", I personally wouldn't spend above $1K, just in case it needed "the works" (replacement speaker, re-tube, quite possibly a full recap and/or additional servicing), to get it where I wanted. Depending on your tastes, that could run up to $500! 

I've seen used Ramblers for as little as $1700 so I'd suggest you take the servicing issue into consideration. I also happen to think the Carr is a GREAT sounding & performing amp. IMO, it's what a SFDR_ wishes _it could be.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Money aside, I'd pick the Rambler without hesitation. It has all the SFDR offers plus more. If you're patient, a used Rambler could be had for some savings (compared to new) but still probably close to double the SFDR.

If the SFDR does what you want then save the coin and go that route. If you want more grunt then hold out for the Rambler.

However, if you have a budget for a $3k Rambler then there are others you could consider too.


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

All excellent points - all help a decision and make it tougher at the same time ;-)

How about a early 70's SF Vibrolux - I know it's a little more weight, but also more headroom, which trumps the DR considering the type of music I play. There's a nice looking one listed in TO.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

b-nads said:


> All excellent points - all help a decision and make it tougher at the same time ;-)
> 
> How about a early 70's SF Vibrolux - I know it's a little more weight, but also more headroom, which trumps the DR considering the type of music I play. There's a nice looking one listed in TO.


I'm thinking that the Vibrolux will cost more than a SFDR and still may need similar service requirements and further investment... that gets you even closer to the entry point on a used Rambler.

The bright side... if any one suits your need and you buy used you really can't go wrong with any of them.

The challenge would be to find a used Rambler, otherwise the point is moot.


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

The challenge would be to find a used Rambler, otherwise the point is moot.

True. I missed out on a 210 Rambler a couple weeks ago for $1400 - it has some wear and tear on it and the switch was gone, so I hesitated. Then again, I'd rather spend that on a sweet shape vintage amp than a beat-to-shit new one ;-). I've checked the usual places, and Ramblers are tough to come by used...and they still command a pretty penny.

I've contacted the seller in Trenton with the Vibrolux to see if he'll send me some pics of the board. The amp looks good in the ad, and he's asking 1350 - I don't think I'd go that high for the reasons mentioned, and it's a pretty good hike to go get it. I'll wait and see what develops. The SFDR I'm talking about is in wester NY State, so even more complicated.


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## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

b-nads said:


> The challenge would be to find a used Rambler, otherwise the point is moot….


Maybe this is still there?
http://www.gbase.com/gear/carr-rambler-2008-cowboy-brown


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

b-nads said:


> I've contacted the seller in Trenton with the Vibrolux to see if he'll send me some pics of the board. The amp looks good in the ad, and he's asking 1350 - I don't think I'd go that high for the reasons mentioned, and it's a pretty good hike to go get it. I'll wait and see what develops.


That's Derrick Bell. He's a cab builder that a lot of members here have tapped into. I know Derrick and he's as honest & thorough as the day is long, as is the tech we both rely on. Anyway, Derrick is like me when it comes to vintage amps so chances are the VR has already been completely serviced. If that's the case, $1350 seems pretty darn fair IMO. 

Another thing to note: If the SFDR you tried out was an early '70, it could have had the BF-style circuit & cab (lighter weight w/ screwed in baffle) and I wouldn't expect the '74 to sound the same....especially w/o a JBL in there! That could be an apples to oranges comparison then.

Here's an example of one of Derrick's cabs that I used on a recent build:


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

Thanks, Steve. I wrote Derrick last night. He got back to me this morning with some details and will be sending me pics of the chassis tonight. The size seems about right - more headroom and not crazy heavy. Overall sound generally good on these?

hammer - thanks for the link. That one has been sold for w a while now ;-)


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

b-nads said:


> Thanks, Steve. I wrote Derrick last night. He got back to me this morning with some details and will be sending me pics of the chassis tonight. The size seems about right - more headroom and not crazy heavy. Overall sound generally good on these?


Yes, though I vastly prefer all of the 40 watters (Vibrolux, Pro, BandMaster) with a larger OT installed (like the Super) for improved dynamic response. The original OT is a bit inadequate IMO...


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

My original plan with the DRRI was to blitz it - upgraded speaker, tubes, and put the big Mercury OT in it. I have no qualms with doing that with a Virbolux if it's going to get me more headroom than a DR while maintaining a sweet tone in a reasonably sized package. Plus I was born in '74 - not a reason to buy since I know I require frequent servicing, but it's kinda cool. ;-)


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## TheRumRunner (Sep 29, 2011)

There are two Carr's currently for sale in the Toronto area:

A Viceroy at $1700

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...s-amps-pedals-Carr-Viceory-W0QQAdIdZ573203484

And a Rambler at $2400

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...s-amps-pedals-CARR-RAMBLER-W0QQAdIdZ569854717

DW


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## Fox Rox (Aug 9, 2009)

The Viceroy for sale is actually mine, and I have it posted for sale right here on Guitars Canada as well. b-nads drop me a quick line if you are interested.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

b-nads said:


> My original plan with the DRRI was to blitz it - upgraded speaker, tubes, and put the big Mercury OT in it. I have no qualms with doing that with a Virbolux if it's going to get me more headroom than a DR while maintaining a sweet tone in a reasonably sized package. Plus I was born in '74 - not a reason to buy since I know I require frequent servicing, but it's kinda cool. ;-)


There's plenty other high quality iron that's more reasonably priced than Merc...Heyboer and Hammond immediately come to mind...but that'd be your call. A stock '74 VR should have all the headroom you'd want anyway. Regardless, the post-'70 cab build was quite different and generally not as "lively" IMO so that would be another consideration if it were me (which, of course, it isn't!).


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

Thanks for the help, Steve. I may just go the original route and get a Carr.


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2014)

I'd buy the Carr. You get all the advancements in design and technology that have happened in the past 40 years (a not-inconsiderable list) AND it sounds glorious.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

StevieMac said:


> IMO, it's what a SFDR_ wishes _it could be.


Wasn't that also said of the ToneKings?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Fox Rox said:


> The Viceroy for sale is actually mine, and I have it posted for sale right here on Guitars Canada as well. b-nads drop me a quick line if you are interested.


Can't swing it but damn curious to hear it - I'm after a clean 112 combo these days haha.


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

b-nads said:


> My original plan with the DRRI was to blitz it - upgraded speaker, tubes, and put the big Mercury OT in it. I have no qualms with doing that with a Virbolux if it's going to get me more headroom than a DR while maintaining a sweet tone in a reasonably sized package. Plus I was born in '74 - not a reason to buy since I know I require frequent servicing, but it's kinda cool. ;-)


I currently have a 73 DR with iron that allows it to run 6L6 tubes just like a Vibrolux. As said, improved dynamics, more headroom, etc. It can, of course, also run 6V6 tubes with the appropriate bias.

Paired with a Scumback speaker, it is by far the best amp that I have ever had. Forum member greco has played/heard this modified 73 DR. Your idea above is not a bad one.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

starjag said:


> Forum member greco has played/heard this modified 73 DR.


This is a SUPERB amp IMHO! 

It sounds huge and has a great, unique voice. 
I can't put it into words....but it certainly stands out!

Thanks to starjag for the opportunity to listen to/play through this amp during some of our jams.

Cheers

Dave


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## Fox Rox (Aug 9, 2009)

It sounds awesome *budda*! Nice Blackface cleans and sweet Tweed sounds in the same amp.


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

As expected not one of you has made this decision easy ;-), but I'll certainly make it more informed. Thanks, guys.

The purchase is impacted by the sale of my Monty Blues Master at the moment - unfortunately with the wife's work situation I have to use gear money to fund gear stuff - no new cash in play on this one. Given everything written, I don't think a bad decision is likely.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

My '74 Deluxe is also running 5881's using all original iron. It sounds great and is my main amp.



starjag said:


> I currently have a 73 DR with iron that allows it to run 6L6 tubes just like a Vibrolux. As said, improved dynamics, more headroom, etc. It can, of course, also run 6V6 tubes with the appropriate bias.
> 
> Paired with a Scumback speaker, it is by far the best amp that I have ever had. Forum member greco has played/heard this modified 73 DR. Your idea above is not a bad one.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

nonreverb said:


> My '74 Deluxe is also running 5881's using all original iron. It sounds great and is my main amp.


I just picked up a '76 pro reverb (212 to the super's 410 and master vs. mid control). The body of the 212 won out as I can still get it pretty bright and sparkley if I want. The '69 super was in better condition and just retubed though. 

It seems like a lot of people are swapping out the stock speakers on the mid-70's fenders?


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Budda said:


> ......It seems like a lot of people are swapping out the stock speakers on the mid-70's fenders?


I don't know if Fender was still using Utah's by the mid 70's, but they were just a few years before and generally they're not very good. Sorta like Marslands in a Traynor, the odd one sounds right and good but generally you can do much better.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Cool. What's the general concensus on a good 12' to put in? I think it's a ways off from
mods though haha.

edit: utahs in this one. But it sounds fine and will
probably just get the recap and retube.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

I really like the new Celestion cream back 65 watt in these amps. It didn't seem like it would work but it does.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

zdogma said:


> I really like the new Celestion cream back 65 watt in these amps. It didn't seem like it would work but it does.


Agreed... the 75 too!


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