# Anyone Got The Vaccine For Covid?



## player99

I got the Pfizer last week. Second shot for 3 weeks after. 

I understand it takes 2 weeks to kick in.

Anyone else got it or are in the cue?


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## knight_yyz

Not available in my area yet. I'm still too young to make the wait list


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## SWLABR

knight_yyz said:


> Not available in my area yet. I'm still too young to make the wait list


Same. I'm under 50, and relatively healthy. I am way down the list. I'll be lucky to get it by Summer, but I'm thinking the Fall (or later) is more likely.

Which is OK by me. It will give me time to see if anyone grows a tail or a third nipple.


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## MetalTele79

I work in a hospital and got my second Pfizer shot a little over two weeks ago. No side effects, only a sore arm. 

At the hospital, we consider somebody fully vaccinated 14 days after the second shot. While it is great to be vaccinated it is still only 95% effective and we have seen people become positive after being fully vaccinated. Also, we're still not sure how effective it is against some of the variants.


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## player99

MetalTele79 said:


> I work in a hospital and got my second Pfizer shot a little over two weeks ago. No side effects, only a sore arm.
> 
> At the hospital, we consider somebody fully vaccinated 14 days after the second shot. While it is great to be vaccinated it is still only 95% effective and we have seen people become positive after being fully vaccinated. Also, we're still not sure how effective it is against some of the variants.


Thanks for the info. How do you think the new 4 months between shots some provinces are doing will work?

Did the people who became positive after being fully vaccinated get sick?


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## MetalTele79

player99 said:


> Thanks for the info. How do you think the new 4 months between shots some provinces are doing will work?
> 
> Did the people who became positive after being fully vaccinated get sick?


I think the 4 months between shots will work ok. The first shot is fairly effective and they will be able to get more people at least partially vaccinated quicker.

People who have had at least one shot do seem to have less symptoms but symptoms are all over the place with COVID so it's hard to say.


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## laristotle

SWLABR said:


> It will give me time to see if anyone grows a tail or a third nipple.


This is why I'll wait.


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## tomee2

At the rate they're going in ON, it'll be Aug or Sept before I'm even considered, and I'm over 50.


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## JBFairthorne

Ontario is now saying that everyone who wants a shot should be able to get one by Canada Day.


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## Moosehead

I signed up for a clinical trial of the made in canada vaccine by Medicago. havernt heard back yet, clincal research is in guelph and im hoping i get in. Looks to be more effective than both pfizer and moderna. 

Took wife to get her shot on the weekend. no third nipple yet but was tired and arm is sore. Par for the course. She got the pfizer shot.


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## Frenchy99

I registered ( online ) and brought both my in-laws for the first shoot Feb 26. They both have an appointment on the 21st of May for the second dose. 

Both my in-laws are 86 years old. We are vaccinating the 85 + here in Québec.


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## guitarman2

As long as I'm able, I won't be getting a vaccine.


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## Lincoln

Frenchy99 said:


> I registered ( online ) and brought both my in-laws for the first shoot Feb 26. They both have an appointment on the 21st of May for the second dose.
> 
> Both my in-laws are 86 years old. We are vaccinating the 85 + here in Québec.


my wife's father just go his first shot a few days ago. He's 93
Gonna be a while before under 65's see any 'round here


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## Lincoln

I was hearing they are thinking of making "proof of vaccination" a requirement for air travel. I think that's a great idea.


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## NashvilleDeluxe

No...I'm a Quebec teacher. In my 50's. With diabetes. The Government is trying to wipe us out, I believe. 15 year-olds are not good at "bubbles."


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## Shawn B.

NashvilleDeluxe: I teach high school here in Ontario, I'm 52 and also have Type II diabetes! We are not considered frontline workers even though we spend hours in a closed room with many teenagers who are not members of our immediate family. You made me laugh! I hope it is not a conspiracy 😄.


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## Electraglide

SWLABR said:


> Which is OK by me. It will give me time to see if anyone grows a tail or a third nipple.


That might be interesting depending on how prehensile the tail is and how functional the third nipple is. Depending on what my Dr. says I can book an appointment starting Mar. 15......but I'll probably wait until the beginning of April when all the test results should be in. 


Lincoln said:


> my wife's father just go his first shot a few days ago. He's 93
> Gonna be a while before under 65's see any 'round here


Depending on how much under 65 you are and which shot you want you might get your shots before me.

"
*Phase 2 (Covishield/AstraZeneca): Starting March 10*

Albertans aged 50 to 64 who do not have a severe chronic illness can either:


 
receive the Covishield/AstraZeneca vaccine early, or
 
wait until Phase 2D begins in May to receive the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine

Appointment bookings will be announced in stages, while supply lasts:


 
Born in 1957: Book starting March 10
 
Born in 1958 to 1971: Book in following days, rolling one year at a time"


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## Doug Gifford

JBFairthorne said:


> Ontario is now saying that everyone who wants a shot should be able to get one by Canada Day.


The Ontario government says a lot of things…


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## Lincoln

Electraglide said:


> That might be interesting depending on how prehensile the tail is and how functional the third nipple is. Depending on what my Dr. says I can book an appointment starting Mar. 15......but I'll probably wait until the beginning of April when all the test results should be in.
> 
> Depending on how much under 65 you are and which shot you want you might get your shots before me.
> 
> "
> *Phase 2 (Covishield/AstraZeneca): Starting March 10*
> 
> Albertans aged 50 to 64 who do not have a severe chronic illness can either:
> 
> 
> 
> receive the Covishield/AstraZeneca vaccine early, or
> 
> wait until Phase 2D begins in May to receive the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine
> 
> Appointment bookings will be announced in stages, while supply lasts:
> 
> 
> 
> Born in 1957: Book starting March 10
> 
> Born in 1958 to 1971: Book in following days, rolling one year at a time"


good info. Thanks. I'm a 58 edition. For a while there it didn't look like we'd see vacine before the end of the year. It's good to see the end of this thing finally coming.


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## Frenchy99

What freaks me out is that 30% of health care workers are choosing not to get vaccinated ?!?


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## SWLABR

Lincoln said:


> I was hearing they are thinking of making "proof of vaccination" a requirement for air travel. I think that's a great idea.


I agree with this one. The airlines say the oxygen is "new" but it's just such a confined space. It is a breeding ground for just about anything... COVID or otherwise. At least you'd have some sense of security. Although, I would imagine masks still being mandatory on planes long into the future. "Vaccine Passports" or not.


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## Electraglide

NashvilleDeluxe said:


> No...I'm a Quebec teacher. In my 50's. With diabetes. The Government is trying to wipe us out, I believe. 15 year-olds are not good at "bubbles."


If 15 year olds now are like when I was 15 then they are a lot better at 'bubbles' than a lot of adults seem to be. They still have their groups and where possible seem to stick to them.


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## Guzzi Fan

Moosehead said:


> I signed up for a clinical trial of the made in canada vaccine by Medicago. havernt heard back yet, clincal research is in guelph and im hoping i get in. Looks to be more effective than both pfizer and moderna.
> 
> Took wife to get her shot on the weekend. no third nipple yet but was tired and arm is sore. Par for the course. She got the pfizer shot.


Good on ya Moosehead! It is a selfless act to step forward for the betterment of society. I am also hoping that proof of vaccination is required for certain travel, and maybe other things too. If people are not willing to get a vaccination that in essence protects all of us, I think it is fair to restrict their movement/attendance in certain situations.


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## Electraglide

Lincoln said:


> good info. Thanks. I'm a 58 edition. For a while there it didn't look like we'd see vacine before the end of the year. It's good to see the end of this thing finally coming.


Looks like a lot of pharmacies are booking. 




__





Pharmacy inventory map | Alberta Blue Cross


Information on the pharmacy inventory map Program for Albertans.



www.ab.bluecross.ca


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## Moosehead

Frenchy99 said:


> What freaks me out is that 30% of health care workers are choosing not to get vaccinated ?!?


There were a lot of empty seats/openings to get vaccinated when my wife went. Docs were reasonably annoyed that they weren't vaccinating as many as they could be. It was busy outside with long lineups but was not inside. Pretty well run and not stressfull but a lot of back checking that you are who you say you are and proving that you are in fact working in healthcare. Honestly my wife's shot could have gone to folks in higher risk categories. She's been working from home relatively risk free and doesn\t plan on going back to the office even after her 2nd shot. Teachers are gettting the short end of this stick for sure. They need to open it up to those frontline workers most at risk.


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## Stephenlouis

Frenchy99 said:


> What freaks me out is that 30% of health care workers are choosing not to get vaccinated ?!?


Ive not seen this in BC. I have had both shots, I'm in the nursing field... the moderna vaccine. The second one hit me like a truck, the first was fine.


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## Ricktoberfest

Frenchy99 said:


> What freaks me out is that 30% of health care workers are choosing not to get vaccinated ?!?


Source?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oldjoat

JBFairthorne said:


> Ontario is now saying that everyone who wants a shot should be able to get one by Canada Day.


always with the condition of "depending on availability of vaccine" 
in other words " ya might get one or ya might not sonny" ... step right up and takes your chances.


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## mawmow

Never got any flu vaccine... and never got a flu : I am a cave man !

And the way things are going, I am quite reluctant to get some of these : I do not like at all the idea I would get in my body some alien ARN that would make my cells synthetize a viral protein that would then trigger my immunity mechanics as Pfizer and Moderna so called "vaccines" do. My problem is that we do not know what this alien ARN could also cause as it would remain where it would get engrafted in my own messenger ARN... I would rather take a COVID derived protein that would directly trigger my immunity physiology as other labs provide but as the governement does not allow me to choose...

I played 125 golf rounds last year, made all my usual shopping washing hands and wearing a mask during the past year and spent the rest of the time in my cave, so shall I continue my normal life and cross my fingers as I always did.

Add on : By the way, recent reports show the vaccine does not prevent to be COVID-infected : Covid gets you anyway but you would not be sick while you could transmit the virus anyway. So, vaccinated or not, continue to wash hands and wear a mask anyway !


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## Patrice Brousseau

NashvilleDeluxe said:


> No...I'm a Quebec teacher. In my 50's. With diabetes. The Government is trying to wipe us out, I believe. 15 year-olds are not good at "bubbles."


Same for me, 48, elementary school music teacher surrounded by little kids (they can have it without almost any symptoms). Knock on wood, my girlfriend got it (Covid, not vaccine!) a dozen of kids and two colleagues...

Maybe next schoolyear...?


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## Patrice Brousseau

Ricktoberfest said:


> Source?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It’s changing now a bit as of February, at least here in Québec. 

Health care workers are less reluctant to get vaccinated

_ THE CANADIAN PRESS
Article reserved for subscribers
Public health workers in Quebec say that the reluctance of health network workers to be vaccinated against COVID-19 is on the decline.
Data collected by the team of a public health professor at the University of Sherbrooke, Dr. Mélissa Généreux, shows a significant change in these workers, who are now much more open to vaccination.

This finding comes as Quebec public health authorities are redoubling their efforts to encourage inoculation among employees in the health network. Vaccinated workers were invited to participate in awareness-raising efforts, being seen as role models for their colleagues.

A survey conducted between February 5 and 16 found that 76% of healthcare workers who participated had received the vaccine or were about to receive it. Dr. Généreux recalls that last November, not only was this proportion only 57%, but also that network workers were among the Quebecers least inclined to accept vaccination.

Dr. Généreux believes that many of these workers changed their minds when they found that their vaccinated colleagues had no side effects or adverse reactions. She also argues that the steady decline in the daily number of new COVID-19 cases in recent weeks in Quebec has contributed to a change in attitude toward inoculation._


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## Patrice Brousseau

BTW, some of my colleagues aren’t sure they would be vaccinated if it was available for them... Me, as soon as I can, it’s a moral obligation for me so others won’t be at risk...


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## HighNoon

Guzzi Fan said:


> Good on ya Moosehead! It is a selfless act to step forward for the betterment of society. I am also hoping that proof of vaccination is required for certain travel, and maybe other things too. If people are not willing to get a vaccination that in essence protects all of us, I think it is fair to restrict their movement/attendance in certain situations.


Some further proof could be forthcoming. Something along the line of wearing an identifiable piece of clothing; a neon pink work vest for example. That way they could be noticed easily in public. And with the advent of 5G, and facial recognition, a transponder could be implanted in said vest and enable easy tracking, and contact tracing. It wouldn't be long, before they learn the path of least resistance, and 'get with the program'.


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## JBFairthorne

Wow. That previous comment (minus the tech) sounds an awful lot like some darker chapters of our global history.


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## Electraglide

HighNoon said:


> Some further proof could be forthcoming. Something along the line of wearing an identifiable piece of clothing; a neon pink work vest for example. That way they could be noticed easily in public. And with the advent of 5G, and facial recognition, a transponder could be implanted in said vest and enable easy tracking, and contact tracing. It wouldn't be long, before they learn the path of least resistance, and 'get with the program'.


How about something like this.








This company embeds microchips in its employees, and they love it


Last August, 50 employees at Three Square Market got RFID chips in their hands. Now 80 have them.




www.technologyreview.com




or this.


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## HighNoon

Electraglide said:


> How about something like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This company embeds microchips in its employees, and they love it
> 
> 
> Last August, 50 employees at Three Square Market got RFID chips in their hands. Now 80 have them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.technologyreview.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or this.


An extension of the flesh prison, or as a writer wrote....

“Cyberspace. A consensual hallucination experienced daily by billions of legitimate operators, in every nation, by children being taught mathematical concepts... A graphic representation of data abstracted from banks of every computer in the human system. Unthinkable complexity. Lines of light ranged in the nonspace of the mind, clusters and constellations of data. Like city lights, receding...”


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## HighNoon

JBFairthorne said:


> Wow. That previous comment (minus the tech) sounds an awful lot like some darker chapters of our global history.


Minus the tech? The IBM punch card and it's most nefarious use, the supreme tech of it's day.


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## sulphur

HighNoon said:


> Minus the tech? The IBM punch card and it's most nefarious use, the supreme tech of it's day.


Most of you are carrying around a tracking device in your pockets already.


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## NashvilleDeluxe

Electraglide said:


> If 15 year olds now are like when I was 15 then they are a lot better at 'bubbles' than a lot of adults seem to be. They still have their groups and where possible seem to stick to them.


Oh, they do like “their” bubbles. They just don’t like the bubbles chosen FOR them. At recess and lunch they ditch their classmates and go vape/share Red Bulls with their real friends, with masks off. We look out the window and count how many “bubbles” are inter-bubbling.


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## Okay Player

Shawn B. said:


> NashvilleDeluxe: I teach high school here in Ontario, I'm 52 and also have Type II diabetes! We are not considered frontline workers even though we spend hours in a closed room with many teenagers who are not members of our immediate family. You made me laugh! I hope it is not a conspiracy 😄.


Ontario teachers are on the essential worker list. Which kind of sucks for those of us who were treated as virus fodder this time last year while the schools were closed and teachers taught online, but it is what it is.


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## cboutilier

NashvilleDeluxe said:


> Oh, they do like “their” bubbles. They just don’t like the bubbles chosen FOR them. At recess and lunch they ditch their classmates and go vape/share Red Bulls with their real friends, with masks off. We look out the window and count how many “bubbles” are inter-bubbling.


Same thing here. I'm teaching grades 7-9, so they are still believing that if they rebel hard enough the protocols will be abandoned.


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## Midnight Rider




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## laristotle

player99 said:


> How do you think the new 4 months between shots some provinces are doing will work?





Midnight Rider said:


> View attachment 354433
> View attachment 354434











AGAR: It's OK to question the new fourth month time between doses


I will be in line the day it is my turn to be vaccinated against COVID. But not if politics has replaced science to cover for Trudeau’s ineptitude at securing…




torontosun.com




_How do we know the first dose will retain effectiveness over that time? Do we know the second dose will be effective if the first has lost its potency?

There are enough questions even when we follow the manufacturer’s directions.

I can revisit if the manufacturers change their recommendations and tell us why. But I am not Justin Trudeau’s guinea pig._


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## butterknucket

JBFairthorne said:


> Ontario is now saying that everyone who wants a shot should be able to get one by Canada Day.


Of what year?


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## leftysg

HighNoon said:


> An extension of the flesh prison, or as a writer wrote....
> 
> “Cyberspace. A consensual hallucination experienced daily by billions of legitimate operators, in every nation, by children being taught mathematical concepts... A graphic representation of data abstracted from banks of every computer in the human system. Unthinkable complexity. Lines of light ranged in the nonspace of the mind, clusters and constellations of data. Like city lights, receding...”


Oh Neil, we miss your lyrical concepts.


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## JBFairthorne

butterknucket said:


> Of what year?


I’ll assume that’s rhetorical.


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## butterknucket

JBFairthorne said:


> I’ll assume that’s rhetorical.


You'd better not assume anything.


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## vadsy

laristotle said:


> AGAR: It's OK to question the new fourth month time between doses
> 
> 
> I will be in line the day it is my turn to be vaccinated against COVID. But not if politics has replaced science to cover for Trudeau’s ineptitude at securing…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> torontosun.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _How do we know the first dose will retain effectiveness over that time? Do we know the second dose will be effective if the first has lost its potency?
> 
> There are enough questions even when we follow the manufacturer’s directions.
> 
> I can revisit if the manufacturers change their recommendations and tell us why. But I am not Justin Trudeau’s guinea pig._


can you keep the political commentary out and not drag another thread into the dumpster?


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## HighNoon

vadsy said:


> can you keep the political commentary out and not drag another thread into the dumpster?


From the git go, Covid was politicized....simple tasks in our daily lives were politicized.....extended interactions in our daily lives were politicized.....simple questions were politicized....even the basic science was politicized.....time to order more dumpsters.


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## vadsy

HighNoon said:


> From the git go, Covid was politicized....simple tasks in our daily lives were politicized.....extended interactions in our daily lives were politicized.....simple questions were politicized....even the basic science was politicized.....time to order more dumpsters.


sure, but bringing the Sun in and attacking politicians directly belongs in the right section. the poster is all agenda all the the time and the mods are friendly to it,. or quit, or both


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## High/Deaf

vadsy said:


> can you keep the political commentary out and not drag another thread into the dumpster?


As your good buddy (and funny enough, the OP of this political thread) would say:



player99 said:


> FFS STFU YSDMFC.


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## HighNoon

vadsy said:


> sure, but bringing the Sun in and attacking politicians directly belongs in the right section. the poster is all agenda all the the time and the mods are friendly to it,. or quit, or both


Thanks for the explanation. And yet we can/could/should co-exist in the moderne world.


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## laristotle

vadsy said:


> can you keep the political commentary out and not drag another thread into the dumpster?


An article questioning if politicians or the manufacturers of the vaccines know better about time between injections is not political.
People, besides those that read politics, may want to be informed about this, don'cha think?

_“The day before Canada’s National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) announced Mar. 3 that the second dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna and AstraZeneca vaccines could be delayed up to four months after the first dose, its recommendation was that the second Pfizer-BioNTech dose should be administered 19-21 days after the first dose; Moderna, 21-28 days; AstraZeneca 28 days to 12 weeks.” 

The manufacturers are backed up in that position by the Centers for Disease Control, The Food and Drug Administration and many other relevant expert experts. No other country is planning to stretch the limits of the vaccines to that extent.

The vaccines were approved in the first place based on the original interval between doses._


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## SWLABR

High/Deaf said:


> As your good buddy (and funny enough, the OP of this political thread) would say:
> 
> FFS STFU YSDMFC.


FFS- I know that one
STFU- yep, that one too 
YSDMFC- had to look this one up... no results, but I think I get the gist.


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## vadsy

laristotle said:


> Really? An article questioning if politicians or the manufacturers of the vaccines know better about time between injections is not political.
> People, besides those that read politics, may want to be informed about this, don'cha think?
> 
> _“The day before Canada’s National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) announced Mar. 3 that the second dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna and AstraZeneca vaccines could be delayed up to four months after the first dose, its recommendation was that the second Pfizer-BioNTech dose should be administered 19-21 days after the first dose; Moderna, 21-28 days; AstraZeneca 28 days to 12 weeks.” _


if they want to be informed on politics, they would go to the political section. don'cha think? do we not have a rule or two around here? why break them?

you hate the gov, we get it. they touched you wrong, I'm sorry. maybe ask them to say sorry too


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## vadsy

player99 said:


> I got the Pfizer last week. Second shot for 3 weeks after.
> 
> I understand it takes 2 weeks to kick in.
> 
> Anyone else got it or are in the cue?


how is this political,?



High/Deaf said:


> As your good buddy (and funny enough, the OP of this political thread) would say:


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## vadsy

HighNoon said:


> Thanks for the explanation. And yet we can/could/should co-exist in the moderne world.


exactly, we should co-exist. answer they OP, keep the outrage in the proper sections. 

but whatever. this thread will end up in the political dumpster along with the 7 other covid threads and the rest of the trash


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## laristotle

vadsy said:


> if they want to be informed on politics, they would go to the political section. don'cha think?


I edited my post while you were writing a response to the quote.
Reread it.


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## Frenchy99

vadsy said:


> I'm sorry. maybe ask them to say sorry too


Isn't that the only thing the idiot is good at !?! 
a little tear with that while he`s at it ?


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## Guzzi Fan

HighNoon said:


> Some further proof could be forthcoming. Something along the line of wearing an identifiable piece of clothing; a neon pink work vest for example. That way they could be noticed easily in public. And with the advent of 5G, and facial recognition, a transponder could be implanted in said vest and enable easy tracking, and contact tracing. It wouldn't be long, before they learn the path of least resistance, and 'get with the program'.


Conspiracy theory anyone...? 😄

I think a vaccination booklet might do the trick.


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## HighNoon

Guzzi Fan said:


> Conspiracy theory anyone...? 😄
> 
> I think a vaccination booklet might do the trick.


Good idea. A booklet with a hologram, and a chip, palm and eye print verifiable....make the counterfeiters work for their money.


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## Electraglide

NashvilleDeluxe said:


> Oh, they do like “their” bubbles. They just don’t like the bubbles chosen FOR them. At recess and lunch they ditch their classmates and go vape/share Red Bulls with their real friends, with masks off. We look out the window and count how many “bubbles” are inter-bubbling.


The same thing happens at places that have a high employee count like Amazon and a fair amount of the office buildings down town. Lunch comes along and there people out in front of the buildings smoking and drinking coffee with their friends/fellow employees. BTW that statement "chosen FOR them" just don't cut it. You and the other teachers looking out the windows and counting how many "bubbles" you see sound too much like 'Another Brick In The Wall'.


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## NashvilleDeluxe

Electraglide said:


> The same thing happens at places that have a high employee count like Amazon and a fair amount of the office buildings down town. Lunch comes along and there people out in front of the buildings smoking and drinking coffee with their friends/fellow employees. BTW that statement "chosen FOR them" just don't cut it. You and the other teachers looking out the windows and counting how many "bubbles" you see sound too much like 'Another Brick In The Wall'.


It IS a bit "Pink Floyd..." I agree! I just meant that the kids have assigned homerooms, and that's supposed to be the bubble. We didn't gather with clip-boards and do social engineering and plot to separate best friends from one another. The window-gazing is our version of watching a horror movie at lunch.


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## Electraglide

NashvilleDeluxe said:


> It IS a bit "Pink Floyd..." I agree! I just meant that the kids have assigned homerooms, and that's supposed to be the bubble. We didn't gather with clip-boards and do social engineering and plot to separate best friends from one another. The window-gazing is our version of watching a horror movie at lunch.


You mean you're not out in the parking lot having a smoke or running to MacD's to get lunch. If the kids are stuck in their home rooms all day or travel around with that group from class to class I'd call that social engineering and quite possibly separating them from their best friends. I bet you at least once a day some one reminds the kids about social distancing and staying in their "bubble" and things like that.
Back to Covid vaccines. One of the things I see around here is a "severe chronic illness" stipulation which is why I'm waiting for this next round of tests to be done and what the drs. say after that. If they say ok then the my dr. will book me a test. Not to sure if Ab. is using the J&J vaccine but one shot would suit me fine.


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## Moosehead

So just got a callback this evening for the clinical trial I signed up for. Should have both doses by the end of April. If anyone else is interested the trial is run by Dawson clinical research in Guelph. And is for the medicago vaccine. Read up on it, looks to be more effective than Pfizer.


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## High/Deaf

vadsy said:


> how is this political,?


How is it not?

The reality is, if we were in any other G7 country, the majority of us would already be vaccinated. But you don't want to hear that. You want to celebrate the 5% that have received it and not hear from the other 95%, many frustrated with the current situation. Politics with blinders on, or control by one and only one side, usually doesn't work - it's an all or nothing proposition (something not well understood here). Kinda like freedom of speech.


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## Lincoln

I'm almost in the que. Today in Alberta, those born in 1957 can book a vaccination. That's for the Astra-Zeneca. They are saving the Pfizer & Moderna for 65+ and health care workers. I don't care. Something is better than nothing.


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## Guzzi Fan

@Moosehead Best of luck with the trial! Hope it provides immunity (without side effects) for you, and for other Canadians in the future.


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## vadsy

High/Deaf said:


> How is it not?
> 
> The reality is, if we were in any other G7 country, the majority of us would already be vaccinated. But you don't want to hear that. You want to celebrate the 5% that have received it and not hear from the other 95%, many frustrated with the current situation. Politics with blinders on, or control by one and only one side, usually doesn't work - it's an all or nothing proposition (something not well understood here). Kinda like freedom of speech.


the op asked if anyone got the vaccine. not at all political.
you wanna push an agenda,? you can certainly make it political. and that is what was going on.

it isn't hard to understand


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## JBFairthorne

High/Deaf said:


> How is it not?
> 
> The reality is, if we were in any other G7 country, the majority of us would already be vaccinated.


That is simply not true. Check your facts. I looked up a percentage population vaccinated by country list a couple of days ago and VERY few countries have passed the 50% vaccination mark. The absolute requirement for majority.

In fact. Only Israel (at like 96 percent or something, astonishing) and United Arab Emirates at like 68% have passed the 50% threshold.


----------



## tomee2

Frenchy99 said:


> What freaks me out is that 30% of health care workers are choosing not to get vaccinated ?!?


Maybe they are young, have had it already and recovered and they want the vaccine to go to the people really at risk. 
Statistics usually suck at telling the whole story.


----------



## Lincoln

Somewhere a long time ago I read that the UK started building a facility to produce vaccine long before there was a vaccine. Like back in early 2020. That's commendable


----------



## Lincoln

tomee2 said:


> Maybe they are young, have had it already and recovered and they want the vaccine to go to the people really at risk.
> Statistics usually suck at telling the whole story.


and don't forget that 98.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot.


----------



## Frenchy99

Lincoln said:


> That's for the Astra-Zeneca.


Yeah, were are getting the stuff that other countries canceled orders on. Its not a valid vaccine against the African strain. 
They are trying to convince us in Québec that its a good one to get since only the British strain was detected so far...


----------



## Diablo

NashvilleDeluxe said:


> Oh, they do like “their” bubbles. They just don’t like the bubbles chosen FOR them. At recess and lunch they ditch their classmates and go vape/share Red Bulls with their real friends, with masks off. We look out the window and count how many “bubbles” are inter-bubbling.


The bubbles a joke.
In elementary schools here, they spend the day in their bubble, and then hop on to a bus which has whatever kids live on the same routes, regardless of which class(bubble) they are in. In the morning they will board the same bus again with the same kids before going back into their bubble.
Good thing viruses arent contagious on buses! 
Nor are they at work at being contagious when the kids take their masks off at their desks to eat lunch. They put the masks right back on after lunch fortunately, bc the virus comes back on duty at 1pm sharp.

i see the same kids you likely do, that after school hang around each other sans masks.


----------



## Frenchy99

tomee2 said:


> Maybe they are young, have had it already and recovered and they want the vaccine to go to the people really at risk.
> Statistics usually suck at telling the whole story.



Lots of rebellious spirits here... One year of this shit is hard to take. People are rebelling against anything and everything.

I look at the news and keep telling myself people a wacko !!! 

Almost afraid to leave the house... unless a great deal shows up !


----------



## Lincoln

Frenchy99 said:


> Yeah, were are getting the stuff that other countries canceled orders on. Its not a valid vaccine against the African strain.
> They are trying to convince us in Québec that its a good one to get since only the British strain was detected so far...


I'll take it. Maybe we'll be offered a Pfizer or Moderna chaser down the road some time


----------



## Frenchy99

High/Deaf said:


> The reality is, if we were in any other G7 country, the majority of us would already be vaccinated. But you don't want to hear that.


Exactly !!!

But like I said, our national Idiot will say he`s sorry at the end and if we are lucky, we`ll get a little tear with that !


----------



## laristotle

Frenchy99 said:


> Almost afraid to leave the house... unless a great deal shows up !


Guilty here. lol


----------



## SWLABR

Lincoln said:


> I don't care. Something is better than nothing.


I'm sort of in the same boat. I will take what is administered at the vaccination site I am told to show up at, but if I get the one that is not showing effectiveness against the South African variant, I'll be kinda like... well, I suppose I will need to continue to wear a mask, and wash my hands every two minutes, and socially distance from non-vaccinated people, and... oh crap!!! I'm in 2020!!!


----------



## allthumbs56

JBFairthorne said:


> That is simply not true. Check your facts. I looked up a percentage population vaccinated by country list a couple of days ago and VERY few countries have passed the 50% vaccination mark. The absolute requirement for majority.
> 
> In fact. Only Israel (at like 96 percent or something, astonishing) and United Arab Emirates at like 68% have passed the 50% threshold.


Based on the current ratios though, at the time that the U.S achieves 100% vaccinated, Canada will only be at 25%.

Some states believe that they will be fully vaccinated by the beginning of April. If you run the numbers, they show that Canada will not hit September - it might even be months after that.

Numbers don't lie. We're currently vaccinating 110,000 people per day in Canada - that's 336 days to do the whole country at that pace. Double the rate of vaccinations and you just might hit the end of September. Ontario needs to be vaccinating 80,000 people every day - right now. They're doing more each day - about a 10% increase over the day before. If we get a steady 3,000 bump each day then it will take 17 days to grow from the current 30,000 a day to the needed target of 80,000.

Recently I hear politicians talking about Canada Day - Unfortunately I just don't see that in the numbers.


----------



## Wardo

Frenchy99 said:


> .. Almost afraid to leave the house... unless a great deal shows up !


... lol


----------



## Frenchy99

As of this morning, we are # 46 in the countries vaccinating... For a G7 country, we are now part of the third world...

Price to pay for legalized pot ! 😵


----------



## 1SweetRide

player99 said:


> I got the Pfizer last week. Second shot for 3 weeks after.
> 
> I understand it takes 2 weeks to kick in.
> 
> Anyone else got it or are in the cue?


Too young to be getting the shot anytime soon. My folks in Arnprior got their first shots today though. Were told 4 months for the second.


----------



## JBFairthorne

Once the US is fully vaccinated we won’t be far behind as demand for available vaccine shifts away from the US.


----------



## Dorian2

Not me but I brought my 80 year old Mom to get her first shot 2 weeks ago. No side effects or issues. I'll post in April re: her 2nd shot and let you know if it goes as well or not.


----------



## allthumbs56

JBFairthorne said:


> Once the US is fully vaccinated we won’t be far behind as demand for available vaccine shifts away from the US.


It's a free-market. Moderno and Pfizer will deliver doses to whichever country's contract says they're next. I don't think there will be a shortage of buyers anytime soon.


----------



## allthumbs56

Dorian2 said:


> Not me but I brought my 80 year old Mom to get her first shot 2 weeks ago. No side effects or issues. I'll post in April re: her 2nd shot and let you know if it goes as well or not.


My mother in law gets her first shot tomorrow. I hope it doesn't turn her into some kind of a monster. 

Wait.


----------



## Dorian2

lol


----------



## Lincoln

I booked my appointment today! Next Friday is the day. Yes, I know I'm old.

The wife's 93 yo father got his shot on the 5th. No side effects noted.


----------



## Sneaky

I just booked my first AZ shot for tomorrow.


----------



## Wardo

allthumbs56 said:


> It's a free-market. Moderno and Pfizer will deliver doses to whichever country's contract says they're next. I don't think there will be a shortage of buyers anytime soon.


That's about it although once the virus variants kick in big time the current vaccine should be freely available because its utility will have been nullified and I expect that those companies will be happy to deliver the obsolete formula and honor their contracts with canada.


----------



## Electraglide

Lincoln said:


> I'm almost in the que. Today in Alberta, those born in 1957 can book a vaccination. That's for the Astra-Zeneca. They are saving the Pfizer & Moderna for 65+ and health care workers. I don't care. Something is better than nothing.


From what the one Dr. said yesterday I should just wait. If I didn't have to wait I could book on the 17th. Starts with born in '47 on the 15th.


----------



## Electraglide

Lincoln said:


> I booked my appointment today! Next Friday is the day. Yes, I know I'm old.
> 
> The wife's 93 yo father got his shot on the 5th. No side effects noted.


You were born in '57?


----------



## player99

I hope we can start sending free vaccine to poor countries soon.


----------



## Lincoln

Electraglide said:


> You were born in '57?


I'm just a wanna-be baby boomer. You're the real deal.


----------



## Electraglide

Lincoln said:


> I'm just a wanna-be baby boomer. You're the real deal.


If nothing happens to you and Sneaky I should be ok. If you grow a third eye or something else post some pics.


----------



## player99

I'm not sure if it's related but I have a touch of arthritis and after the shot I got really stiff. Like a sample of where I will be in 10 years. My lower back was so sore it woke me up. It went away after 5 or 6 days. I have psoriasis and I think I might have psoriatic arthritis, and the immune system triggered it to attack. I am going for blood tests to see if I have the psoriatic arthritis tomorrow.


----------



## SWLABR

Electraglide said:


> If nothing happens to you and Sneaky I should be ok. If you grow a third eye or something else post some pics.


My dad's a "47". He has no confirmed date yet. We're on SW Ontario, where are you??


----------



## MetalTele79

player99 said:


> I'm not sure if it's related but I have a touch of arthritis and after the shot I got really stiff. Like a sample of where I will be in 10 years. My lower back was so sore it woke me up. It went away after 5 or 6 days. I have psoriasis and I think I might have psoriatic arthritis, and the immune system triggered it to attack. I am going for blood tests to see if I have the psoriatic arthritis tomorrow.


Fever, chills (if accompanied by a fever) fatigue, muscle aches and joint pain are what we consider expected side effects for the vaccine at our hospital. If they persist longer than 48hrs after the shot we refer the person for a COVID test.


----------



## Frenchy99

MetalTele79 said:


> Fever, chills (if accompanied by a fever) fatigue, muscle aches and joint pain are what we consider expected side effects for the vaccine at our hospital. If they persist longer than 48hrs after the shot we refer the person for a COVID test.


Both my in laws had these symptoms for a few days. It passed.


----------



## Electraglide

SWLABR said:


> My dad's a "47". He has no confirmed date yet. We're on SW Ontario, where are you??


Calgary and I'm a bit past 47.


----------



## player99

I just got word our 2nd Pfizer shot is most likely 4 months away.


----------



## Sneaky

allthumbs56 said:


> Based on the current ratios though, at the time that the U.S achieves 100% vaccinated, Canada will only be at 25%.
> 
> Some states believe that they will be fully vaccinated by the beginning of April. If you run the numbers, they show that Canada will not hit September - it might even be months after that.
> 
> Numbers don't lie. We're currently vaccinating 110,000 people per day in Canada - that's 336 days to do the whole country at that pace. Double the rate of vaccinations and you just might hit the end of September. Ontario needs to be vaccinating 80,000 people every day - right now. They're doing more each day - about a 10% increase over the day before. If we get a steady 3,000 bump each day then it will take 17 days to grow from the current 30,000 a day to the needed target of 80,000.
> 
> Recently I hear politicians talking about Canada Day - Unfortunately I just don't see that in the numbers.


Fun fact: USA vaccinated more people yesterday than Canada has done since starting in December.


----------



## SWLABR

Electraglide said:


> Calgary and I'm a bit past 47.


I meant born in...


----------



## Electraglide

SWLABR said:


> I meant born in...


on the
Means your dad is around 2 years older than me. Here I can set up or have my Dr set up an appointment on the 17th. If your dad was here he could set up an appointment on the 15th for any of the vaccines. The pulmonary specialist I talked to today said that there shouldn't be any problem with me getting a shot as soon as I can but to talk to my Dr. then said she's booking me for a Cat Scan and more xrays.


----------



## Electraglide

Sneaky said:


> Fun fact: USA vaccinated more people yesterday than Canada has done since starting in December.


More people, more places to vaccinate and more doses of any vaccine. From the looks of it the states have been given 98+ million doses. Canada just under 3 million. Money talks. Isreal has vaccinated half their population. India has vaccinated more people than Isreal and that's less than 1% of their population.
You getting your shot at a drugstore?


----------



## Sneaky

Electraglide said:


> More people, more places to vaccinate and more doses of any vaccine. From the looks of it the states have been given 98+ million doses. Canada just under 3 million. Money talks. Isreal has vaccinated half their population. India has vaccinated more people than Isreal and that's less than 1% of their population.
> You getting your shot at a drugstore?


Nope, AHS down in Southland.


----------



## Midnight Rider

*Government of Canada 🇨🇦*
*Drug and vaccine authorizations for COVID-19: List of authorized drugs, vaccines and expanded indications*

Things You Should Know
*AstraZeneca COVID-19 Vaccine (ChAdOx1-S [recombinant]) : *What you should know: AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine - Canada.ca
*Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine (tozinameran): *Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine: What you should know - Canada.ca
*Veklury (remdesivir): *Remdesivir (Veklury): What you should know - Canada.ca
*Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine AD26.COV2.S [recombinant]: *Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) COVID-19 vaccine: What you should know - Canada.ca
*COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna (mRNA-1273 SARS-CoV-2): *Moderna COVID-19 vaccine: What you should know - Canada.ca
*COVISHIELD (ChAdOx1-S [recombinant]): *What you should know: AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine - Canada.ca
*Bamlanivimab (bamlanivimab): *Bamlanivimab: What you should know - Canada.ca

*Reported side effects following COVID-19 vaccination in Canada: *
COVID-19 vaccine safety: Weekly report on adverse effects following immunization - Canada.ca





















































Figure 4: Text Description
*Most frequently reported adverse events up to and including March 5, 2021 (n=5,502)*


*Most frequently reported adverse events*

*Number of adverse events*






Vaccination site pain

551

Vaccination site erythema (redness)

439

Vaccination site swelling

336

Vaccination site warmth

267

Vaccination site reaction

245

Pruritus (itching)

236

Paraesthesia (tingling or prickling)

227

Headache

215

Urticaria (hives)

175

Vaccination site pruritus (itching)

172

Adenopathy/lymphadenopathy (swollen lymph nodes)

165

Nausea

159

Rash

158

Fatigue

149

Vaccination site cellulitis

147

Dizziness

125

Fever ≥ 38°C

120

Hypoaesthesia (numbness)

119

Dyspnoea (laboured breathing)

119

Chills

117

Erythema (redness)

111

Vaccination site inflammation

108

Other allergic reactions

100

Vaccination site induration (hardness)

97

Pain

97

Vomiting

90

Vaccination site rash

87

Diarrhea

78

Tachycardia (fast heartbeat)

76

Arthralgia (joint pain)

70

Chest discomfort

67

Throat tightness

64

Myalgia (muscle pain)

64

Flushing

52

Malaise (discomfort)

50

Anaphylaxis

50




Up to and including March 5, 2021, a total of fifteen reports identified deaths that occurred after the administration of a vaccine. Following medical case review, it has been determined that nine of these deaths are not linked to a COVID-19 vaccine and the other six are still under investigation. When the investigation is complete, the number will be updated accordingly.
The current reports do not suggest any unusual characteristics of adverse events following administration of COVID-19 vaccines. There continues to be no vaccine safety issues identified.
If a safety issue is found to be related to immunization, Health Canada will take appropriate action. This could include updating the product information, communicating new risks to Canadians and healthcare providers or changing the recommended use of the product.
A little info on the U.S.A. take on the vaccines including the 'EUA' (Emergency Use Authorization) that also applies to Canada. 
*FDA-Emergency Use Authorization: *Emergency Use Authorization
*The Janssen COVID‑19 Vaccine has not been approved or licensed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), but has been authorized by FDA through an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for active immunization to prevent Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID‑19) in individuals 18 years of age and older. The emergency use of this product is authorized only for the duration of the declaration that circumstances exist justifying the authorization of the emergency use of the medical product under Section 564(b)(1) of the FD&C Act, unless the declaration is terminated or authorization revoked sooner.*

*CDC - Centers for Disease Control and Prevention *
Interim Considerations: Preparing for the Potential Management of Anaphylaxis after COVID-19 Vaccination
CDC: Management of Anaphylaxis at COVID-19 Vaccination Sites | CDC


Janssen Covid-19 Vaccine - Janssen/Johnson & Johnson Website: Janssen COVID-19 Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) Official Website

*See PDF **Attachment For Full Details On U.S.A. Janssen Vaccine Description.*


----------



## Electraglide

Sneaky said:


> Nope, AHS down in Southland.


I went by there about 5 this after noon. There were a lot of people in the line up. From the entrance to the clinic down the side of the building north and then west and around that corner. Most looked early to mid 60's. When I went by again about 5:30 the line hadn't gotten any smaller.


----------



## player99

Electraglide said:


> I went by there about 5 this after noon. There were a lot of people in the line up. From the entrance to the clinic down the side of the building north and then west and around that corner. Most looked early to mid 60's. When I went by again about 5:30 the line hadn't gotten any smaller.


Good place to sell some weed.


----------



## Electraglide

player99 said:


> Good place to sell some weed.


I think there's at least one store about a block away. A coffee truck would probably make a killing tho.


----------



## Sneaky

Electraglide said:


> I went by there about 5 this after noon. There were a lot of people in the line up. From the entrance to the clinic down the side of the building north and then west and around that corner. Most looked early to mid 60's. When I went by again about 5:30 the line hadn't gotten any smaller.


It wasn’t too bad when I went. Once you get through the front entrance, they check you in and then you get in another lineup. The whole thing probably took about an hour.


----------



## Electraglide

Sneaky said:


> It wasn’t too bad when I went. Once you get through the front entrance, they check you in and then you get in another lineup. The whole thing probably took about an hour.


When I first went by there was security and someone checking at the door. Might just have been doing the standared covid questions. When I came back there was just security there. I'm going to check and see if there is a clinic either by me or by my Drs. office.


----------



## SWLABR

Here's a spot of troubling news, but I thought I'd share... just in case we were to all thinking we can let our guards down. The variants are kinda scary. Good friends of ours (let's call them Fred & Wilma). This time last year they both had COVID. They recovered, but said it was absolute hell. When the vaccines became available this year, both were approved fairly early as they both have elderly parents, and an immune compromised kid at home. Fred's parents are in their 90's, fairly independent, but his mom has either dementia, or Alzheimer's... Wilma's mom is widowed, in her late 80's but again fairly independent. Each one does a lot of care-giving for their respective parents. Fred & Wilma got their first shot of Pfizer about a month ago. Their (other kid) goes to school out of town. For some reason, he/she preferred to be at the rez, instead of at home, even though it's all on-line. There was an outbreak at the school, he/she wasn't sick, but thought it best to head home. Turns out, he/she was asymptomatic, and got sick. Fred & Wilma thought they were good. Having had COVID, and both being 1st dose vaccinated. Nope! Both got it. Again. Turns out it was the UK variant. Admittedly, their symptoms were way milder, but it was COVID. 

Yikes! 

I try to be positive, but I find myself trying harder _not_ to be negative. I come out fairly neutral. It's very difficult to see any positivity in this story. I think we are in this locked down, masked up, socially distant lifestyle for the foreseeable future. We need (something like) 75% of the population to be vaccinated to establish "heard-immunity" so we can start to "open-up". At this rate, who knows. I will continue to "follow-the-science", but that seems to change daily.


----------



## Jim Wellington

SWLABR said:


> We need (something like) 75% of the population to be vaccinated to establish "heard-immunity"


How does herd immunity happen with variants of concern popping up??


----------



## SWLABR

Jim Wellington said:


> How does herd immunity happen with variants of concern popping up??


Exactly. We may never get there if the variants keep mutating around the vaccine.


----------



## Jim Wellington

SWLABR said:


> Exactly. We may never get there if the variants keep mutating around the vaccine.


I`ve read a few commentaries outlining concern for vaccination in the middle of a pandemic. The concerns seemed to make sense to me.

It`s always the "we have no choice" response when ever we talk about the what ifs. The disease is always presented as more of a threat than the vaccination, and that may be, but try telling that shit to the asymptomatic people.


----------



## MetalTele79

I have seen many people who are fully vaccinated still test positive but they are most often asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic. This is enough of a benefit that I think the vaccines are totally worth it.


----------



## 1SweetRide

This is the strongest argument for vaccines and lockdowns. If we don't slow this thing down, we could see mutations that are much worse than anything we have right now. India is a huge concern for the world.


----------



## Jim Wellington

MetalTele79 said:


> I have seen many people who are fully vaccinated still test positive but they are most often asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic. This is enough of a benefit that I think the vaccines are totally worth it.


The fully vaccinated people testing positive...are they capable of spreading the virus? If so, that would mean the vaccine would be much less effective in stopping spread. I sure hope its not the case.


----------



## Jim Wellington

1SweetRide said:


> This is the strongest argument for vaccines and lockdowns. If we don't slow this thing down, we could mutations that are much worse than anything we have right now. India is a huge concern for the world.


So have you considered that vaccinating asymptomatic people may cause a mutation? I don` see your strong argument. This is still a wait and see proposition for some of us.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Jim Wellington said:


> So have you considered that vaccinating asymptomatic people may cause a mutation? I don` see your strong argument. This is still a wait and see proposition for some of us.


I do but I'm not going to get into it. I think you may have strong opinions on this which I'm not willing to get into an on-line fight over.


----------



## bzrkrage

I do have to ask, (yes I got the jab 2 weeks back) what happened with the surge in Calgary?
Yes, were the “Texas of Canada, full of yahoo” and all that BS, but the what actually caused this city to rise in positive cases?
Group gatherings? Lack of enforcement? Dare to say it, the “organized, meeting of worship?
Yes, I understand that its been too long, we are selfish and so on. But Edmonton has 1/3 of the case number.... anyone have some answers?


----------



## mhammer

*All* the things we have vaccines for still exist in the world, including stuff you thought was gone forever.
That does NOT mean vaccines are ineffective. It means many people, or at least people in this or that community or part of the world, don't understand, or are unwilling, to cooperate with immunization programs. ALL vaccines are "an opportunity to learn" for your immune system; like a warm-up before the big game. How _long_ of a warm-up is required will vary from person to person, before their immune system is stoked and ready. But even the most warmed-up players can crumble if the opponent is that much stronger. The intent of an immunization program is to "warm up" enough of the populace that most people can combat the pathogen in question well enough to not become very sick, and also to fight it well enough that they don't spread very much of it. And if they don't spread very much of it, then those around them who are vaccinated ("warmed-up") will be able to successfully combat whatever they pick up.

An article in this morning's paper had Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Tam making a similar sort of point. I do wish she had made better efforts at communicating to people how and why they needed to cooperate* with* vaccines to achieve the desired end. The public disconnect between vaccine and behaviour is hampering things. It's great that people are lining up for, and receiving, their first and sometimes second shot. But it is not a magic bullet, nor an invincible and invisible force field. It makes one MUCH more able to defend against the virus, but it is not a shut-off switch for either contracting OR spreading.

Unfortunately, one of the hurdles in this pandemic is something Skinner & Co. anticipated many decades ago. If the relationship between a behaviour and some outcome is either inconsistent or else too staggered in time, the _causal_ association between them is not easily learned. Smack your puppy on the nose for shitting on the living-room carpet 3 days after they did it, and only once out of every 3 times, on average, and that puppy will not curtail it's parlour defecation. Lockdowns, masks, curfews, and vaccination *work*. But the delay between imposing such things and discernible improvements in case-counts leads many to see NO connection, and thus resist such measures.

I keep repeating that I will continue to mask and distance until such time as local case-counts drop to something we'd be comfortable with for any of the other highly-contagious-and-often-fatal diseases we have vaccines and/or treatments for that continue to pop up now and then. It's not paranoid. It's respecting this virus the same way we respect other diseases so as to control them and their spread.


----------



## Jim Wellington

1SweetRide said:


> I do but I'm not going to get into it. I think you may have strong opinions on this which I'm not willing to get into an on-line fight over.


Oh...I see. Well get back to me then, when you`re feeling more daring. For future reference, I don`t argue with thinkers...just propagandists.


----------



## allthumbs56

MetalTele79 said:


> I have seen many people who are fully vaccinated still test positive but they are most often asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic. This is enough of a benefit that I think the vaccines are totally worth it.


This is the most recent article I can find about this. As of a week ago some 6,000+ persons had tested positive after an initial vaccination - 2/3rds before 2 weeks had passed. This is out of almost 14 million doses administered (I believe that works out to 0.048%)









1.3% of Canada’s COVID-19 cases had 1st vaccine: PHAC - National | Globalnews.ca


More than 6,000 Canadians have reported contracting COVID-19 and 53 people have died after receiving one vaccine dose, according to the Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC).




globalnews.ca





If you've seen so many more perhaps you can direct me toward some newer data as I'm trying to keep as informed as possible.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

mhammer said:


> I keep repeating that I will continue to mask and distance until such time as local case-counts drop to something we'd be comfortable with for any of the other highly-contagious-and-often-fatal diseases we have vaccines and/or treatments for that continue to pop up now and then. It's not paranoid. It's respecting this virus the same way we respect other diseases so as to control them and their spread.


Akin (simplistically speaking) to looking both ways before crossing a busy street even though you have a walk light. It's a survival instinct, if you want to live that is. 

Thanks for taking reasonable precautions.


----------



## zdogma

Jim Wellington said:


> So have you considered that vaccinating asymptomatic people may cause a mutation? I don` see your strong argument. This is still a wait and see proposition for some of us.


Vaccination doesn't drive mutation, it reduces it. Anything that reduces virus circulation reduces mutation, its basic immunology.


----------



## Jim Wellington

allthumbs56 said:


> If you've seen so many more perhaps you can direct me toward some newer data as I'm trying to keep as informed as possible.


I think i read this morning that the CDC isn`t going to count post vaccination Covid infections unless they require hospitalization. So how will one know going forward?


----------



## Jim Wellington

zdogma said:


> Vaccination doesn't drive mutation, it reduces it. Anything that reduces virus circulation reduces mutation, its basic immunology.


Well thank you for answering a straight question with a straight answer....quite refreshing.

Does that apply to a vaccine that has a different operating mechanism than classic vaccines? Would we know, or do we need data?

Considering the continued dialogue pertaining to the effect the spike protein may have on different individuals I`m confused.


----------



## zdogma

Jim Wellington said:


> Well thank you for answering a straight question with a straight answer....quite refreshing.
> 
> Does that apply to a vaccine that has a different operating mechanism than classic vaccines? Would we know, or do we need data?


It applies to all vaccines, and any spread reduction measures. Viruses need to transmit to replicate, and replication drives mutation.


----------



## Jim Wellington

zdogma said:


> It applies to all vaccines, and any spread reduction measures. Viruses need to transmit to replicate, and replication drives mutation.


What about post vaccine people who contract the virus after inoculation? 

Are you answering from memory or could you direct me to where your information comes from?


----------



## Jim Wellington

Jim Wellington said:


> Are you answering from memory or could you direct me to where your information comes from?


That was a sincere question. I find some articles require too much background study for me to comprehend, so I`m always looking for a version I can work through.

It was not an attempt to put you in a corner...and thanks for taking the time to respond.


----------



## zdogma

Even partial resistance will decrease mutation-if a COVID vaccine is less effective against variants at worst it will be a neutral effect if there is zero efficacy. Most vaccines are about 60% effective against current variants and that will decrease reproduction numbers and thus decrease mutation.


----------



## zdogma

IN the very long term there is a selective effect where variants will become the predominant strains, but that occurs whether immunity is naturally acquired or vaccine related


----------



## mhammer

zdogma said:


> Vaccination doesn't drive mutation, it reduces it. Anything that reduces virus circulation reduces mutation, its basic immunology.


Right. I think the vaccination-drives-mutations notion is mistakenly derived from all those instances where people stop taking anti-biotics after 7 or 8 days, instead of going the full 10, because "they feel better". Over-reliance on, and this kind of under-use of, antibiotics does allow for "superbugs" to emerge. But a vaccine is not an antibiotic, and a virus is not a bacterium. I find it disquieting that in a nation as populous as India, apparently many antibiotics requiring a prescription here in Canada can be bought over the counter there. Promoting antibiotic guardians in India - The Pharmaceutical Journal

Viruses mutate because replication is not always perfect. If something replicates a gazillion times, _most_ of those times will result in a perfect replication and the virus keeps going. _Some_ will result in an imperfect replication that becomes nonfunctional, and _some_ will result in an imperfect replication yielding a new variant that remains infectious (perhaps even moreso).

Mutations are more likely to arise where there is more contagion and serious cases (serious because the virus has replicated in that person a LOT). There is nothing unique about the geographic locations where particular variants are identified with other than the extent to which contagion was controlled. The "Indian", "Brazillian" or "UK" variants can easily occur *anywhere* in the world, without being "brought over", since all they are is mutations resulting from imperfect viral replication. And a virus can replicate imperfectly in Alberta or Florida, all on its very own. No hacking airplane passenger is required.


----------



## Jim Wellington

zdogma said:


> Even partial resistance will decrease mutation-if a COVID vaccine is less effective against variants at worst it will be a neutral effect if there is zero efficacy. Most vaccines are about 60% effective against current variants and that will decrease reproduction numbers and thus decrease mutation.


Awesome...thank you.

So that tells me it`s more likely that unvaccinated people will harbor variant development.

What are your personal thoughts on vaccinating people who have an immune system that can overpower the virus?

I understand there are 2 things involved in this answer, herd health and the particulars of an individual. I remain unconvinced that vaccinating asymptomatic otherwise healthy people is a good choice for the individual, although the herd may see benefit, as per your claims. I can already see the counter position in this, as I`ve been schooled before. Yet the rebuttals weren`t concerned with anything other than mass vaccinations being the unquestionable answer. Thanks for taking the time to reply. It`s enlightening.

EDIT: After rereading your first response I found the answer to my second question...thanks again.


----------



## zdogma

Jim Wellington said:


> Awesome...thank you.
> 
> So that tells me it`s more likely that unvaccinated people will harbor variant development.
> 
> What are your personal thoughts on vaccinating people who have an immune system that can overpower the virus?
> 
> I understand there are 2 things involved in this answer, herd health and the particulars of an individual. I remain unconvinced that vaccinating asymptomatic otherwise healthy people is a good choice for the individual, although the herd may see benefit, as per your claims. I can already see the counter position in this, as I`ve been schooled before. Yet the rebuttals weren`t concerned with anything other than mass vaccinations being the unquestionable answer. Thanks for taking the time to reply. It`s enlightening.
> 
> EDIT: After rereading your first response I found the answer to my second question...thanks again.


I think there is benefit for the group and the individual-at this point. Even with viral vector vaccines the risk of death from COVID vaccination is (probably) lower than the risk of dying of COVID-its pretty difficult to estimate prevalence of rare events, but it will probably get more precise with time. 

My opinion on adenovirus vaccines is changing over time-I think they did a great job in Britain-saved lives and allowed the economy to reopen-but now that mRNA vaccines are more widely available (and have much better supply at least in the case of Pfizer) than adenovirus vaccines the role for them will probably decrease, at least in Canada and developed nations. The fact that they don't require nearly as much special handling may be important in some parts of the world, however. If protein based vaccination (Novavax) passes the test-it will probably take that role-but the data won't be out until May/June. Protein based vaccines tend to be much easier and faster to produce (probably cheaper as well), and may be significantly easier to transport and store as well.

The harder question will be what to do with the younger group (under 18) where the mortality has been pretty negligible-I think that you will see they will only be offered mRNA vaccines-better efficacy and lower rate of serious complications-but they will largely be vaccinated to prevent spread to adults, and to reduce the risk of ongoing variant spread.


----------



## Jim Wellington

Thank you zdogma for sharing your thoughts... It helps my understanding of a situation that harbors alot of contradictory opinions.


----------



## allthumbs56

Jim Wellington said:


> What about post vaccine people who contract the virus after inoculation?
> 
> Are you answering from memory or could you direct me to where your information comes from?


How many years of data do you require before you buy in, Jim? What is the proof that would convince you to get the jab?


----------



## Jim Wellington

allthumbs56 said:


> How many years of data do you require before you buy in, Jim? What is the proof that would convince you to get the jab?


Another year would be good, but if I have a choice it would be never based on todays data.


----------



## allthumbs56

Jim Wellington said:


> Another year would be good, but if I have a choice it would be never based on todays data.


Your choice.

I have relatives in South Carolina and Georgia that insist they will never get the vaccine either.


----------



## mhammer

Contracting post-vaccine is a function of contagion-control and resulting case-counts/positivity-rates. And severity will vary as a function of the resilience/durability of the immune response from a given vaccine in a given individual, after a given period of time. Regions, even within Canada, have varied in the extent to which they have pursued good contagion-control. Even if one has two shots, if everyone around you is carrying and shedding, and you can't get away from them, chances are pretty good you'll pick up a mild case. Both yourself and the vaccine may be holding up their end of the bargain, but those who do not take measures to help control spread are not holding up their end.

As case-counts and positivity rates drop, we can expect post-vaccine infections to also drop. Fewer people shedding smaller amounts means much less to catch.


----------



## Jim Wellington

allthumbs56 said:


> Your choice.
> 
> I have relatives in South Carolina and Georgia that insist they will never get the vaccine either.


For now it`s my choice. The moral majority with the help of the feds, well they may want to change that. 

I never said i would never get the vaxx. I just said with todays info and the fact that I`m socially isolated it`s not necessary in my opinion. With that said I`d like to go back to work. I want a new car and I would rather leave my bank account alone. So I may have to chance the vax if I start buggin` out here and have to get back into the public swing of things. For now...I`m good., and so are you, as you are already as protected as anyone can be.


----------



## mhammer

In view of momentary supply limits and lineups for vaccination - particularly for those whose food and shelter depend on regularly being around lots of people - if circumstances allow one to safely wait a while, that's no sin or abdication of civic responsibility. As we get closer to the autumn, though, lineups should ease, and publicly available data should be more persuasive to those initially reticent.


----------



## Midnight Rider

Jim Wellington said:


> How does herd immunity happen with variants of concern popping up??


The human immune systems VS Covid-19 Ver.1, Ver.2, Ver.3, Ver.4, etc.?,... cage match,... winner take all,... a.k.a. Heard Immunity.

I still have faith in the ability of our innate and adaptive immune systems. They have evolved over 200,000+ years since modern man has emerged to faced countless viruses,...both known and unknown,... only to prove as the victor to keep our species from being eradicated from the face of the earth.

Will everyone survive this or any pandemic? Of course not,... we must be realistic with our expectations with regards to how many infected individuals we can save as the medical variables are many between each patient. It is the harsh reality of our existence on Earth.

We must do what we can in terms of a _possible_ _effective_ vaccine that _may_ assist us in defeating this virus but there is no guarantee. I believe our immune systems will adapt before they perish,... but in the unlikely event it does not adapt and modern medicine also fails to bail us out,... what the hell we gonna do about it?,... perhaps our time is up within the Universe as we currently understand it.

But I doubt it,... the greater majority of Homosapien sapiens will survive.

















I'm not to the point of having a nervous breakdown over the current situation. Can't wait to read this in the history books.


----------



## Wardo

Jim Wellington said:


> ... I`d like to go back to work. I want a new car and I would rather leave my bank account alone. So I may have to chance the vax if I start buggin` out here and have to get back into the public swing of things. For now...I`m good


My cousin Slayton has the exact same story .. lol. Although if I wasn’t around people I’d probably hold off as well.


----------



## keto

Yeah, I get stabbed this weekend. Gotta get back to the land of the living. Life expectancy probably not long enough to see it play out in kids, so I'll just join the experiment for the convenience.

I'm thinkin a double of Pfizer probably keep me alive thru any variants.


----------



## mhammer

If you have any activities that require reaching upwards over your head, I'd do them pre-shot. It subsided after a day and a half, but I found that was one of the more unexpected aspects of shoulder pain.


----------



## Jim Wellington

Midnight Rider said:


> I still have faith in the ability of our innate and adaptive immune systems. They have evolved over 200,000+ years since modern man has emerged to faced countless viruses,...both known and unknown,... only to prove as the victor to keep our species from being eradicated from the face of the earth.


*Not realizing I was in the open section I wrote a long political post. I deleted it as soon as I became aware I wasn`t in the political section. My apologies to those who may have come across it before I did the edit....oops.*

There you go making sense again. Ya gotta stop that. What we believe makes no ones radar at this point. Once they commit to the jab, we the non jabbed, are deemed deplorables, or hillbillies as Wardo has pointed out. But your post is excellent in my opinion.

All the vaccine shortages, side effects, lockdowns and horseshit....a game to keep the public off balance and bickering amongst themselves.


My post is pretty dark, so here`s a nice pic to offset the depression....Some canyon I was fishing in Alberta...don`t remember where.


----------



## 2manyGuitars

mhammer said:


> If you have any activities that require reaching upwards over your head, I'd do them pre-shot. It subsided after a day and a half, but I found that was one of the more unexpected aspects of shoulder pain.


Got the Pfizer shot on Saturday. By Sunday night, the injection site was a bit sore (maybe a 2 inch radius) but nothing really noticeable. By today, I can feel a bit of discomfort if I actually poke it, but that’s about it.


----------



## allthumbs56

Jim Wellington said:


> All the vaccine shortages, side effects, lockdowns and horseshit....a game to keep the public off balance and bickering amongst themselves.


I would counter that it is all about our heathcare system which is designed to operate at near-capacity during the best of times. If we'd had the room in the hospitals and the resources we could have tried to _do a Sweden_ and get there naturally. Not to be - and even Sweden has had to give up the experiment.


----------



## mhammer

Jim Wellington said:


> *Not realizing I was in the open section I wrote a long political post. I deleted it as soon as I became aware I wasn`t in the political section. My apologies to those who may have come across it before I did the edit....oops.*
> 
> There you go making sense again. Ya gotta stop that. What we believe makes no ones radar at this point. Once they commit to the jab, we the non jabbed, are deemed deplorables, or hillbillies as Wardo has pointed out. But your post is excellent in my opinion.
> 
> All the vaccine shortages, side effects, lockdowns and horseshit....a game to keep the public off balance and bickering amongst themselves.
> 
> 
> My post is pretty dark, so here`s a nice pic to offset the depression....Some canyon I was fishing in Alberta...don`t remember where.
> 
> View attachment 364813


Nice recovery. Hopefully nobody takes a shot on net from the rebound.


----------



## Jim Wellington

allthumbs56 said:


> I would counter that it is all about our heathcare system which is designed to operate at near-capacity during the best of times. If we'd had the room in the hospitals and the resources we could have tried to _do a Sweden_ and get there naturally. Not to be - and even Sweden has had to give up the experiment.


Your right, hallway medicine was a fact before any of this so I agree whole heartedly. But I also think there is a malevolent aspect to the system that`s being passed off as incompetence. Now it gets political, and that`s a no, no, in this section of the forum. So i can`t offer anything to the discussion at this point. See how language controls work...aren`t they great?


----------



## allthumbs56

Jim Wellington said:


> Your right, hallway medicine was a fact before any of this so I agree whole heartedly. But I also think there a malevolent aspect to the system that`s being passed off as incompetence. Now it gets political, and that`s a no, no, in this section of the forum. So i can`t offer anything to the discussion at this point. See how language controls work...aren`t they great?


Nothing to see here, Jim. Move along. Everything is great


----------



## SG-Rocker

Ontario will no longer offer first doses of AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine


Ontario will no longer offer first doses of the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine due to an increase in reports of rare blood clots.



toronto.ctvnews.ca





*Disclaimer - I got Moderna.


----------



## Dorian2

Wife and I got ours earlier today. No issues.


----------



## cdntac

I get mine tomorrow. 

A few have said their arm was sore afterwards. About twenty years ago I had to get rabies shots (I just have rec’d 12-15 over a few weeks). Nothing can ever beat those shots. Lol.


----------



## mhammer

SG-Rocker said:


> View attachment 364926
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ontario will no longer offer first doses of AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine
> 
> 
> Ontario will no longer offer first doses of the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine due to an increase in reports of rare blood clots.
> 
> 
> 
> toronto.ctvnews.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Disclaimer - I got Moderna.


The risk is extremely low. The problem is that we don't know enough about who in *particular* is at risk. When one watches an American drug ad, it will say "Do not take if you are also taking...". If we had that level of specificity it would be a no-brainer to filter out certain folks and press on ahead with everyone else. For the moment though, the risk specific factors have to be identified. They're just to fuzzy at the moment.


----------



## mhammer

Dorian2 said:


> Wife and I got ours earlier today. No issues.


My arm didn't hurt until about 12 hours after.


----------



## SG-Rocker

mhammer said:


> The risk is extremely low.


A low risk is a low risk, until it happens to you or someone you love.


----------



## allthumbs56

SG-Rocker said:


> A low risk is a low risk, until it happens to you or someone you love.


I agree.

Earlier in this thread it was 1 in a million, then 1 in 250,000, followed by 1 in 100,000. Today it stands at 1 in 60,000.

Still not bad odds as Mark states - but not great either - and trending in the wrong direction.


----------



## SG-Rocker

mhammer said:


> The problem is that we don't know enough about who in *particular* is at risk. When one watches an American drug ad, it will say "Do not take if you are also taking...". If we had that level of specificity it would be a no-brainer to filter out certain folks and press on ahead with everyone else. For the moment though, the risk specific factors have to be identified. They're just to fuzzy at the moment.


Which is why new medications are stingently trialed and studied prior to release upon the populace.

Oh wait.....


----------



## mhammer

And the AZ vaccine WAS stringently trialed. Yes it was not tested for years as some would like. But it met all the criteria for safety that regulatory agencies here and elsewhere apply to everything It's unlikely we would have been ahead with protracted testing. Remember that the developers, and indeed all the researchers, take steps to *exclude* people with underlying health conditions or other sources of risk. They do this for two reasons. First, the goal is to be able to draw strong conclusions about the efficacy and safety when all other contaminating infuences can be ruled out. Second, people who volunteer for such tests want assurances of reasonable safety, so "risky" volunteers are generally excluded. Criteria for regulatory approval require a certain mnimum number of volunteers. Those "volunteers" are all paid, but more importantly, have to be found. As I've said before, if you're willing to wait several years in continuing lockdown for the vaccine developers to attract, screen, pay and land a half million volunteers to explore every possible risk, be my guest. There's a whole lot of medication and treatments we're glad we have that would never come to be if that sort of extended testing was required.

As well consider that testing criteria always have to have some flexibility built in. For instance, suppose one is developing a treatment for cystic fibrosis. Just how many volunteers are going to be available? How long will a potentially helpful treatment have to wait for approval? And if the treatment gets tested out on huge numbers of volunteers with CF, just how many people are left that *weren't* volunteers? There are enough legitimate complaints about so-called "orphan diseases" - illnesses that don't pose enough of a market for "big pharma" to invest money and energy into developing treatments for. Insisting on highly stringent testing for everything will expand the "orphanage".

Does that make the general populace "the guinea pig"? Sure. But pretty much every caveat and cautionary note you see scrolling by on the screen during an American pharmaceutical ad was likely found *after* the drug passed stringent review and was approved.. People experienced side-effects or drug interactions, reported them (or their doctor did), and they made the list. There are limits to what we can know in advance. And yes, sometimes pharmaceutical companies DO gamble with our health. And they get dinged big time when that gets found out.

We wanted something fast that worked. Miraculously, we got it. It's not perfect, but then nothing is. Some caution is good, and some caution is what we are getting from the right people.

But yeah, if you or someone close to you is the one in a million, you're bound to ask "Why didn't they see this coming?".


----------



## Wardo

allthumbs56 said:


> Earlier in this thread it was 1 in a million, then 1 in 250,000, followed by 1 in 100,000. Today it stands at 1 in 60,000.


Pretty sure I heard 1 in 25K while I was parked in traffic going home today on the 401.


----------



## SG-Rocker

mhammer said:


> And the AZ vaccine WAS stringently trialed. Yes it was not tested for years as some would like. But it met all the criteria for safety that regulatory agencies here and elsewhere apply to everything It's unlikely we would have been ahead with protracted testing. Remember that the developers, and indeed all the researchers, take steps to *exclude* people with underlying health conditions or other sources of risk. They do this for two reasons. First, the goal is to be able to draw strong conclusions about the efficacy and safety when all other contaminating infuences can be ruled out. Second, people who volunteer for such tests want assurances of reasonable safety, so "risky" volunteers are generally excluded. Criteria for regulatory approval require a certain mnimum number of volunteers. Those "volunteers" are all paid, but more importantly, have to be found. As I've said before, if you're willing to wait several years in continuing lockdown for the vaccine developers to attract, screen, pay and land a half million volunteers to explore every possible risk, be my guest. There's a whole lot of medication and treatments we're glad we have that would never come to be if that sort of extended testing was required.
> 
> As well consider that testing criteria always have to have some flexibility built in. For instance, suppose one is developing a treatment for cystic fibrosis. Just how many volunteers are going to be available? How long will a potentially helpful treatment have to wait for approval? And if the treatment gets tested out on huge numbers of volunteers with CF, just how many people are left that *weren't* volunteers? There are enough legitimate complaints about so-called "orphan diseases" - illnesses that don't pose enough of a market for "big pharma" to invest money and energy into developing treatments for. Insisting on highly stringent testing for everything will expand the "orphanage".
> 
> Does that make the general populace "the guinea pig"? Sure. But pretty much every caveat and cautionary note you see scrolling by on the screen during an American pharmaceutical ad was likely found *after* the drug passed stringent review and was approved.. People experienced side-effects or drug interactions, reported them (or their doctor did), and they made the list. There are limits to what we can know in advance. And yes, sometimes pharmaceutical companies DO gamble with our health. And they get dinged big time when that gets found out.
> 
> We wanted something fast that worked. Miraculously, we got it. It's not perfect, but then nothing is. Some caution is good, and some caution is what we are getting from the right people.
> 
> But yeah, if you or someone close to you is the one in a million, you're bound to ask "Why didn't they see this coming?".


By the time the dust settles, the final counts are in and we gain a full appreciation of the social and economic damage that the constant fear mongering and lockdowns have caused, we'll wish we would have just taken it on the chin like we did with SARS, H1N1, Swine Flu, Bird Flu, etc...

I am in no way downplaying the loss of life we have experienced thus far. I do feel however that we have sacrificed the greater good in the pursuit of the perfect.


----------



## vadsy

_vaccines are bad._ ...gets vaccine
_fear mongering bad._ ...spreads fear
_people dying is bad. _...they should have taken it on the chin and died for the greater good.

yikes. but you got some likes, so thats cool I guess


----------



## SG-Rocker

vadsy said:


> _vaccines are bad._ ...gets vaccine
> _fear mongering bad._ ...spreads fear
> _people dying is bad. _...they should have taken it on the chin and died for the greater good.
> 
> yikes. but you got some likes, so thats cool I guess


Vaccines aren't bad - vaccines rushed to market _might_ be.
Fear mongering is bad - blind faith is careless. 
Death is inevitable - reactionary governance which leads to increased and unnecessary death is negligence.

Bonus content.
The opposite of courage is not cowardice, it's conformity. 
Truth does not fear scrutiny, the same cannot be said for ideologues.


----------



## vadsy

meh. it sounds grand but Earl or Tony Robbins, theyre just selling you the same thing. just like this kitty.

glad you got the vaccine. we'll pull through....


----------



## SG-Rocker

vadsy said:


> meh. it sounds grand but Earl or Tony Robbins, theyre just selling you the same thing. just like this kitty.
> 
> glad you got the vaccine. we'll pull through....


1.25 years into the pandemic without the vaccine and by some miracle, I survived.
1.25 days since the vaccine, my shoulder hurts.

The fundamental theory that pretty much all folk like Nightingale, Dyer, Watts, Andersen, Benner and and likely Tony share is:

1) to have complete faith in yourself;
2) to have the audacity to pursue your goals despite the doubts of others; and
3) ultimately, your attitude will dictate your altitude

Matthew 7:7-8 also covers the same concept.

_Whether you think you can, or you think you can't – you're right
- Henry Ford_


----------



## vadsy

SG-Rocker said:


> 1.25 years into the pandemic without the vaccine and by some miracle, I survived.


some didn’t, and more still won't 



SG-Rocker said:


> 1.25 days since the vaccine, my shoulder hurts.


you’ll make it, take a Tylenol



SG-Rocker said:


> 1) to have complete faith in yourself;
> 2) to have the audacity to pursue your goals despite the doubts of others; and
> 3) ultimately, your attitude will dictate your altitude


[eye-roll]


----------



## SG-Rocker

vadsy said:


> some didn’t, and more still won't
> 
> 
> 
> you’ll make it, take a Tylenol
> 
> 
> 
> [eye-roll]


Feel better?


----------



## Midnight Rider

mhammer said:


> And the AZ vaccine WAS stringently trialed. Yes it was not tested for years as some would like. But it met all the criteria for safety that regulatory agencies here and elsewhere apply to everything It's unlikely we would have been ahead with protracted testing. Remember that the developers, and indeed all the researchers, take steps to *exclude* people with underlying health conditions or other sources of risk. They do this for two reasons. First, the goal is to be able to draw strong conclusions about the efficacy and safety when all other contaminating infuences can be ruled out. Second, people who volunteer for such tests want assurances of reasonable safety, so "risky" volunteers are generally excluded. Criteria for regulatory approval require a certain mnimum number of volunteers. Those "volunteers" are all paid, but more importantly, have to be found. As I've said before, if you're willing to wait several years in continuing lockdown for the vaccine developers to attract, screen, pay and land a half million volunteers to explore every possible risk, be my guest. There's a whole lot of medication and treatments we're glad we have that would never come to be if that sort of extended testing was required.
> 
> As well consider that testing criteria always have to have some flexibility built in. For instance, suppose one is developing a treatment for cystic fibrosis. Just how many volunteers are going to be available? How long will a potentially helpful treatment have to wait for approval? And if the treatment gets tested out on huge numbers of volunteers with CF, just how many people are left that *weren't* volunteers? There are enough legitimate complaints about so-called "orphan diseases" - illnesses that don't pose enough of a market for "big pharma" to invest money and energy into developing treatments for. Insisting on highly stringent testing for everything will expand the "orphanage".
> 
> Does that make the general populace "the guinea pig"? Sure. But pretty much every caveat and cautionary note you see scrolling by on the screen during an American pharmaceutical ad was likely found *after* the drug passed stringent review and was approved.. People experienced side-effects or drug interactions, reported them (or their doctor did), and they made the list. There are limits to what we can know in advance. And yes, sometimes pharmaceutical companies DO gamble with our health. And they get dinged big time when that gets found out.
> 
> We wanted something fast that worked. Miraculously, we got it. It's not perfect, but then nothing is. Some caution is good, and some caution is what we are getting from the right people.
> 
> But yeah, if you or someone close to you is the one in a million, you're bound to ask "Why didn't they see this coming?".


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Solid understanding of clinical operations and study management processes, along with experience in various phases of drug development and therapy areas
A minimum of 2 years clinical project management experience. PMP certification is desirable.
Possess strong abilities in cross-functional team leadership, driving personal and team accountabilities, working collaboratively, empowering critical thinking, problem solving, and influencing
Significant experience managing study budgets
Strong communication skills with the ability to build positive relationships, including vendor leadership skills
Why AstraZeneca?
This is the place to make a meaningful impact – on patients’ lives and your personal growth. It’s both rewarding and inspiring, and it’s what keeps us motivated every day.
Great People want to Work with us! Find out why:

GTAA Top Employer Award for 7 years:https://reviews.canadastop100.com/top-employer-astrazeneca-canada
Learn more about our culture:Gena Restivo on LinkedIn: #greatpeople #greatplacetowork #topemployers2020 | 40 comments
Browse AstraZeneca's YouTube channel to find out more about us: https://www.youtube.com/user/astrazeneca
Are you interested in working at AZ, apply today!

AstraZeneca embraces diversity and equality of opportunity. We are committed to building an inclusive and diverse team representing all backgrounds, with as wide a range of perspectives as possible, and harnessing industry-leading skills. We believe that the more inclusive we are, the better our work will be. We welcome and consider applications to join our team from all qualified candidates, regardless of their characteristics. We comply with all applicable laws and regulations on non-discrimination in employment (and recruitment), as well as work authorisation and employment eligibility verification requirements.


----------



## Midnight Rider

vadsy said:


> some didn’t, and more still won't
> 
> 
> 
> you’ll make it, take a Tylenol
> 
> 
> 
> [eye-roll]


Astrazeneca: Search our Job Opportunities at AstraZeneca
*Global Study Leader, Biopharmaceuticals (12 Month Contract)*
Location Mississauga, Ontario, CanadaJob ID R-100592Date posted 15/03/2021
APPLY

Are you passionate about leading clinical trials and drug development? Join the team that follows the science unlike anywhere else. This is the place for curious minds. Dig deep into the biology of complex disease and uncover breakthroughs.
About AstraZeneca:
AstraZeneca is a global, innovation-driven Biopharmaceutical business that focuses on the discovery, development and commercialization of prescription medicines for some of the world’s most serious disease. But we’re more than one of the world’s leading pharmaceutical companies.
At AstraZeneca we’re dedicated to being a Great Place to Work. Where you are empowered to push the boundaries of science and unleash your entrepreneurial spirit. There’s no better place to make a difference to medicine, patients and society. An inclusive culture that champions diversity and collaboration. Always committed to lifelong learning, growth and development.
AstraZeneca Canada:
Headquartered in Mississauga, Ontario, we’ve been recognized as one of Greater Toronto Area’s Top Employers for 7 straight years. Our collaborative work environment fosters knowledge-sharing, decision-making, and entrepreneurial thinking. Our employees have the opportunity to work across teams, functions, and even the globe. With a commitment to sustainability, we’re working towards making a meaningful impact where society needs it — health. We know the health of people, the planet and our business are interconnected, each impacting the others.
Our dynamic culture truly sets us apart. We support our people every day, focusing on three priorities: employee growth & development, health & wellbeing, and cultivating a vibrant, engaged and energized workplace. Through practical tools, resources, inspiring learning opportunities, and health and wellness support, we are helping our people thrive at work and beyond.
Our Biopharmaceuticals Research and Development Team:
Join the team unlocking the power of what science can do. We are working towards treating, preventing, modifying and even curing some of the world’s most complex diseases. Here we have the potential to grow our pipeline and positively impact the lives of billions of patients around the world.
Thrive in a place where the brightest and most curious minds seamlessly come together in our inclusive environment. It’s a place to think differently – to find new ways of handling and treating diseases. We are trusted and empowered to explore.
What you’ll do:

Responsible for leading a cross-functional study team to enable successful delivery of clinical studies from the onset of study specifications through to study archiving
Mentor and empower a cross-functional team to operationally deliver defined clinical studies or assigned clinical project activities to time, cost and appropriate quality in line with ICH/GCP and AZ relevant SOPs
As AZ’s project leader, you will be the key point of contact to the CRO project manager to ensure delivery to time, quality and cost; ensuring AZ oversight of the CRO is defined and performed across relevant AZ functions for outsourced studies
Develop and maintain up to date study plans (e.g. global study management plan, monitoring plan, etc.) ensure study level performance against agreed upon plans, lead proactive risk and contingency planning and raise issues as appropriate
Provide input and hold accountability for the development of crucial study level documents (i.e. Clinical study Protocol)
Select and lead vendors, handling their performance to ensure high quality, timely delivered services
Ensure appropriate training is provided to the local teams, investigators and site staff as well as vendor teams as needed; taking an active role in the Investigators/Monitoring Meetings
Set initial operational study budget with the Clinical Program Team (CPT), and are responsible for study budget throughout the study, providing budget progress reports to leadership
Ensure studies are inspection-ready at all times, according to ICH-GCP, AZ SOP and relevant policies/guidelines
Responsible for the completeness of the Trial Master File; being the primary Study Management point-of-contact in the event of an audit or inspection
May be assigned responsibility for leadership or participation in non-drug project work including applying process improvements methods and to inspire change for new ways to work
You are responsible for collecting and reporting Adverse Events in accordance with AstraZeneca policies and procedures
Essentials for the role:

University degree (or equivalent), preferably in medical or biological sciences or related to clinical research. Advanced degree is preferred.
At least 7 years of relevant clinical experience in the pharmaceutical industry, or a similar organization (e.g. CRO) including clinical trial leadership experience (preferably on global trials)
Solid understanding of clinical operations and study management processes, along with experience in various phases of drug development and therapy areas
A minimum of 2 years clinical project management experience. PMP certification is desirable.
Possess strong abilities in cross-functional team leadership, driving personal and team accountabilities, working collaboratively, empowering critical thinking, problem solving, and influencing
Significant experience managing study budgets
Strong communication skills with the ability to build positive relationships, including vendor leadership skills
Why AstraZeneca?
This is the place to make a meaningful impact – on patients’ lives and your personal growth. It’s both rewarding and inspiring, and it’s what keeps us motivated every day.
Great People want to Work with us! Find out why:

GTAA Top Employer Award for 7 years:https://reviews.canadastop100.com/top-employer-astrazeneca-canada
Learn more about our culture:Gena Restivo on LinkedIn: #greatpeople #greatplacetowork #topemployers2020 | 40 comments
Browse AstraZeneca's YouTube channel to find out more about us: https://www.youtube.com/user/astrazeneca
Are you interested in working at AZ, apply today!

AstraZeneca embraces diversity and equality of opportunity. We are committed to building an inclusive and diverse team representing all backgrounds, with as wide a range of perspectives as possible, and harnessing industry-leading skills. We believe that the more inclusive we are, the better our work will be. We welcome and consider applications to join our team from all qualified candidates, regardless of their characteristics. We comply with all applicable laws and regulations on non-discrimination in employment (and recruitment), as well as work authorisation and employment eligibility verification requirements.


----------



## Chito

So Ontario stopped the delivery of the first dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine. It says in the article that the risk factor went up from 1 per 100k to 1 per 59k. I also have a friend who got some nasty reaction from it more than 3 weeks after the AZ shot he got. He was diagnosed with an immunization induced thrombocytopenia (not with the associated blood clots). The condition wiped out all of his blood platelets leaving him at imminent risk of massive brain or gut bleed and total inability to clot even minor cuts and bruises. He was a virtual hemophiliac. He was out of the hospital after 3 days but he needs some long term follow up to see if he can sustain his own platelet levels independently without the IVIG and Steroid treatment. Just effing crazy.

Ontario stops first doses of AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine


----------



## mhammer

This explains a little more: Covid: How does the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine work?

Note that, as an Oxford research-team development, the UK has leaned heavily on the AZ, with over 28 million people having received it. Note as well, that risk, expressed as "one per...", can change radically with a small number of cases when one is taking about large ratios. In the BBC article, they note 242 clotting cases out of over 28.5 million doses administered. That's 1 in just under 118,000. If it were 232 cases (ten fewer), the odds go to 1/122800 and if it was 252, that drops to 1/113000.

Not trying to diminish concerns. Just note that a case here and then can have an impact on mathematical risk.

According to Worldometer....
Last known population count of Canada: 38,026,101 
Most recent aggregated case count: 1,299,572 ( 1 in 29 infected)
Most recent aggregated fatality count: 24,714 ( 1 in 52 of those infected die)

AZ still a much safer bet than nothing, although Pfizer/Moderna a somewhat safer bet than AZ for a chunk of the population.


----------



## keto

Big UK study where some got AZ then Pfizer, and vice versa.









Mix and match Covid vaccine study finds increased risk of mild to moderate symptoms


It is thought that a mixed dosing schedule could lead to an increase in work absences the day after immunization against the coronavirus.




www.cnbc.com


----------



## SG-Rocker

keto said:


> Big UK study where some got AZ then Pfizer, and vice versa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mix and match Covid vaccine study finds increased risk of mild to moderate symptoms
> 
> 
> It is thought that a mixed dosing schedule could lead to an increase in work absences the day after immunization against the coronavirus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cnbc.com


The fact that they are mix and matching injections without a prior understanding the the safety in doing so is alarming.


Using this entire real-time vaccine experiment as a precedent, can we now forgo the burdensome studies and trials and expedite experimental candidates for cancer, Crohn and other major maladies?


----------



## keto

SG-Rocker said:


> The fact that they are mix and matching injections without a prior understanding the the safety in doing so is alarming.
> 
> 
> Using this entire real-time vaccine experiment as a precedent, can we now forgo the burdensome studies and trials and expedite experimental candidates for cancer, Crohn and other major maladies?


I’m sure not a single developer, medical scientist, or physician was consulted. They had a better than good idea of what to expect, this isn’t some horror move plot despite your apparent wish for outrage.


----------



## Diablo

The risks are worth it for some, not others, myself included.
in my age and health cohort, not to mention ability to isolate, i estimate the true risk of mortality to me from covid is about the same as the risk of blood clots.
so, I resolved to wait for Pfizer or Moderna. Others may feel a more urgent need for any vax, including the rejects from the USA. There is not right or wrong, just comfort levels.


----------



## SG-Rocker

keto said:


> I’m sure not a single developer, medical scientist, or physician was consulted. They had a better than good idea of what to expect, this isn’t some horror move plot despite your apparent wish for outrage.


No desire for outrage, I just wish that more cures and treatments could be expedited into use.

In less than a year, science expedited the creation, manufacturing, distribution and administering of multiple vaccines to quell a novel coronavirus yet here we are 80 years later, still using chemotherapy to treat cancer.


----------



## Diablo

I read a story the other day, the worlds greatest hucksters, America, are planning “vaccine tourism” to boost their economy...for example, visitors to New York will be able to get free vaccines.


----------



## laristotle

Diablo said:


> for example, visitors to New York will be able to get free vaccines.


There's something for Disney and other theme parks to consider.
Family packs!


----------



## Diablo

laristotle said:


> There's something for Disney and other theme parks to consider.
> Family packs!


Ya, the other side of the story is, meanwhile in Canada, few (if any) of us will get our boosters within the manufacturers time guideline. Says a lot about our respective leaders.


----------



## Midnight Rider

They are now censoring my posts on this thread,... huh,... didn't realize Bill C-10, 🤐 , has already been incorporated into some forum threads here at GC. How do I registrar for the the memo service? 

So typical of todays CC, ,... pathetic bunch at best.


----------



## cdntac

My wife and I each got the Moderna yesterday afternoon. Both of us were extremely exhausted by the evening and each could feel our arm getting pretty sore. She also had a bit of tingling going down her arm.

Neither of us can move our arm much this morn. It feels like a received a really, really hard punch to the shoulder. Lol. 

Both of us feel pretty bleh this morn too.

But we’re each glad we got the shot!


----------



## fogdart

Midnight Rider said:


> They are now censoring my posts on this thread,... huh,... didn't realize Bill C-10, 🤐 , has already been incorporated into some forum threads here at GC. How do I registrar for the the memo service?
> 
> So typical of todays CC, ,... pathetic bunch at best.


As moderators, it is our job to enforce the rules of the forum. One of those rules is that posts with political undertones are not allowed anywhere but the “Political Pundit” sub forum. I don’t have the time or desire to read 95% of the threads on this website, and the moderating process relies heavily on regular members reporting posts that go against forum rules. No matter if that post is rather harmless with comedic intent, if it’s against the rules and there’s a complaint, it’s going to come down.


----------



## Jim Wellington

Midnight Rider said:


> They are now censoring my posts on this thread,... huh,... didn't realize Bill C-10, 🤐 , has already been incorporated into some forum threads here at GC. How do I registrar for the the memo service?
> 
> So typical of todays CC, ,... pathetic bunch at best.


There are members here who have lobbied for the free speech part of this forum to be shut down....even though they say they don`t use it.
Ya can`t talk politics in this part of the forum even if the topic is political in nature, and begs for clarification.
I understand why this is necessary. The internet isn`t a civilized place a times.

I agree with you, although. It is pathetic.


----------



## allthumbs56

Jim Wellington said:


> There are members here who have lobbied for the free speech part of this forum to be shut down....even though they say they don`t use it.
> Ya can`t talk politics in this part of the forum even if the topic is political in nature, and begs for clarification.
> I understand why this is necessary. The internet isn`t a civilized place a times.
> 
> I agree with you, although. It is pathetic.


Perhaps it's time to either rename that forum or create a "sister" forum which allows members the freedom to speak their minds about things that aren't specifically political.


----------



## Jim Wellington

allthumbs56 said:


> Perhaps it's time to either rename that forum or create a "sister" forum which allows members the freedom to speak their minds about things that aren't specifically political.


i was pondering the same thing, but I havn`t read the changes proposed by those in charge of parental controls, that is to say, what Canadians will have the priviledge of viewing and saying when new legislation takes affect. It could be the Pundit will be a liability to the owners of the site...will have to wait and see.


----------



## Midnight Rider

fogdart said:


> As moderators, it is our job to enforce the rules of the forum. One of those rules is that posts with political undertones are not allowed anywhere but the “Political Pundit” sub forum. I don’t have the time or desire to read 95% of the threads on this website, and the moderating process relies heavily on regular members reporting posts that go against forum rules. No matter if that post is rather harmless with comedic intent, if it’s against the rules and there’s a complaint, it’s going to come down.


Yes, I calculated that it would have been one of the 'Rat Patrol' members here at GC,... I have a very good idea of who it may have been. I wouldn't think you have the time ,as you say, to patrol the site 24/7. I just found it interesting that my post, just consisting of harmless pictures and gifs, would be taken so offensively as they were really intended as somewhat of comic relief.

However, I understand that in todays world there are an increasing amount of thin skinned individuals who's feelings are extremely sensitive,... a generational difference I suppose. I will keep this in mind when posting in the future as my intentions are not to have any forum member pushed to the point of having to seek professional psychiatric counselling over something as insignificant as a forum thread.

For the person or persons who were offended please accept my sincere and humble apologies and if there is anything I can do to help navigate you through these difficult personal times please do not hesitate to call as I will be there for you my brothers and or sisters.

Peace, love and harmony to all,

Midnight Rider


----------



## vadsy

lol.

all that when you could have just said you have little respect for the rules here


----------



## Midnight Rider

Jim Wellington said:


> There are members here who have lobbied for the free speech part of this forum to be shut down....even though they say they don`t use it.
> Ya can`t talk politics in this part of the forum even if the topic is political in nature, and begs for clarification.
> I understand why this is necessary. The internet isn`t a civilized place a times.
> 
> I agree with you, although. It is pathetic.


Yes Jim, I think it is very crystal clear who those members may be,... it is not as if they are methodical in their efforts to cloak the obvious.

I also prefer to be grounded in reality,... even if that positions me in the minority during debates on certain subject matter.

No sense hanging around on various threads with opposition who run for the CC lever each time they feel they may not emerge as victor during a debate,... couldn't fathom living in that world.


----------



## Midnight Rider

vadsy said:


> lol.
> 
> all that when you could have just said you have little respect for the rules here


No, needed to explain in detail,... you know, freedom of speech and all. Yes, I do respect the rules here,... did you not comprehend that portion of my aforementioned sincere apology? 

I will help you with that if required my brother.


----------



## vadsy

Midnight Rider said:


> No, needed to explain in detail,... you know, freedom of speech and all.


I think you've forgotten where you are



Midnight Rider said:


> my aforementioned sincere apology?


that was an apology? lol



Midnight Rider said:


> I will help you with that if required my brother.


wtf does this mean.?


----------



## Midnight Rider

Diablo said:


> I read a story the other day, the worlds greatest hucksters, America, are planning “vaccine tourism” to boost their economy...for example, visitors to New York will be able to get free vaccines.


Hmmm,... may be a quicker way for Canada to reach the sought after 70% vaccinated citizens,... I say we go for it!
Sniiiiiiiffffff,... ahhhhhhh,... I still love the smell of capitalism in the morning.


----------



## Midnight Rider

vadsy said:


> I think you've forgotten where you are
> 
> 
> 
> that was an apology? lol
> 
> 
> 
> wtf does this mean.?


Nope,... not taking your childlike bait,... vadsy.


----------



## keto

Midnight Rider said:


> Yes Jim, I think it is very crystal clear who those members may be,... it is not as if they are methodical in their efforts to cloak the obvious.
> 
> I also prefer to be grounded in reality,... even if that positions me in the minority during debates on certain subject matter.
> 
> No sense hanging around on various threads with opposition who run for the CC lever each time they feel they may not emerge as victor during a debate,... couldn't fathom living in that world.


Here's the thing: no need for debate in open mic, ta-daaaaah!! Reading comprehension, with respect to the rules around here, ftw - not denial of free speech, you have that entire concept wrong apparently.


----------



## vadsy

Midnight Rider said:


> Nope,... not taking your childlike bait,... vadsy.


probably a good idea. but let me help you understand. 

why don't you saunter over to the safe space the site architects created for all you oppressed guys, the political pundit section. you can proclaim and bolster all that free speech, careful though., I heard those guys can be touchy. and they have a whole file cabinet of hurt feelings reports that you can fill out,,. and they get faxed right to the mods if you need a shoulder to comfort on.

take care, brother. and good luck


----------



## laristotle

Midnight Rider said:


> Hmmm,... may be a quicker way for Canada to reach the sought after 70% vaccinated citizens,... I say we go for it!
> Sniiiiiiiffffff,... ahhhhhhh,... I still love the smell of capitalism in the morning.


Buffalo should get in on the game too. Bring back the 'at par sales!' across the city that they used to do.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## SG-Rocker

vadsy said:


> probably a good idea. but let me help you understand.
> 
> why don't you saunter over to the safe space the site architects created for all you oppressed guys, the political pundit section. you can proclaim and bolster all that free speech, careful though., I heard those guys can be touchy. and they have a whole file cabinet of hurt feelings reports that you can fill out,,. and they get faxed right to the mods if you need a shoulder to comfort on.
> 
> take care, brother. and good luck


Y'all keep alluding to how reprehensible the chatter and chatters in the pundit are yet it was *you* who got banned from there.

I don't know what you said to warrant being banned from an unmoderated, anything goes environment, but if that section is as repulsive as you try to lead other to believe it is, I can only wonder what low you stooped to.

The fact that you keep going on about how 'lesser than' those who frequent that forum are sounds an awful lot like autofellatio poorly masked as virtue signalling.


----------



## vadsy

SG-Rocker said:


> Y'all keep alluding to how reprehensible the chatter and chatters in the pundit are yet it was *you* who got banned from there. I don't know what you said to warrant being banned from an unmoderated, anything goes environment, but if that section is as repulsive as you try to lead other to believe it is, I can only wonder what low you stooped to.


I'm so glad you brought this up. True, I was banned, butI'm still confused as to why....
-the posts are still up, theyre hardly reprehensible. a disagreement on SNL being funny.
-the Vertical Scope mods never got back to me on why they banned me when I asked about the 'unmoderated' part.
-the screenshot of my ban notification looks like someone who signed up for a unmoderated forum got their feelings hurt and reported my post. guess they really really like SNL
-I'll happily share any of this with you, it's no secret. just PM me and we can have a jam sesh



SG-Rocker said:


> The fact that you keep going on about how 'lesser than' those who frequent that forum are sounds an awful lot like autofellatio poorly masked as virtue signalling.


it is virtues signalling but I won't quote you bible verses through a THC haze


----------



## SG-Rocker

vadsy said:


> -the posts are still up, theyre hardly reprehensible. a disagreement on SNL being funny.


Let's test your theory.... SNL has been irrelevant since Norm MacDonald was canned.



vadsy said:


> it is virtues signalling but I won't quote you bible verses through my THC haze


Nothing wrong with bible verses. Might want to step lightly though, while it does not apply to me, there are a substantial number of guitarists in the worship scene who might be offended by your disdain for scripture. There's nothing wrong with a good haze once in a while. Personally, I stick with the occasional gummy or vapourized dry herb. You might want to switch to an Indica though,

I reckon you were banned for the sum of your conduct as opposed to a single event. You seem to deride pleasure from cheap shots and you appear to have a select few members that you particularly enjoy throwing shade at, at times with malice. Occasionally it was clever, most of the time it was just mean.


----------



## vadsy

SG-Rocker said:


> Let's test your theory.... SNL has been irrelevant since Norm MacDonald was canned.


I've learned my lesson, thanks. lets leave this discussion for when we finally meet in real life.



SG-Rocker said:


> Nothing wrong with bible verses. Might want to step lightly though, while it does not apply to me, there are a substantial number of guitarists in the worship scene who might be offended by your disdain for scripture.


I have nothing against the scriptures. problem usually resides with the people who use it



SG-Rocker said:


> There's nothing wrong with a good haze once in a while. Personally, I stick with the occasional gummy or vapourized dry herb. You might want to switch to an Indica though,


non for me. had to edit my post



SG-Rocker said:


> I reckon you were banned for the sum of your conduct as opposed to a single event. You seem to deride pleasure from cheap shots and you appear to have a select few members that you particularly enjoy throwing shade at, at times with malice. Occasionally it was clever, most of the time it was just mean.


I think we should look probably address what those members were saying... or look at their deleted posts, their bans from that same unmoderated section and ...who survived based on who their friends were. in the end I just replied to their posts, I see it more like holding them accountable for all their free speech-ing


----------



## keto

SG-Rocker said:


> Let's test your theory.... SNL has been irrelevant since Norm MacDonald was canned.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing wrong with bible verses. Might want to step lightly though, while it does not apply to me, there are a substantial number of guitarists in the worship scene who might be offended by your disdain for scripture. There's nothing wrong with a good haze once in a while. Personally, I stick with the occasional gummy or vapourized dry herb. You might want to switch to an Indica though,
> 
> I reckon you were banned for the sum of your conduct as opposed to a single event. You seem to deride pleasure from cheap shots and you appear to have a select few members that you particularly enjoy throwing shade at, at times with malice. Occasionally it was clever, most of the time it was just mean.


I don't know what happened behind the scenes or how many posts I missed that got nuked, but yeah, SNL was taken to be relevant and a guided missile of virtue signaling by one member, to which there was some laughter and derision not taken well. So, yeah, at least for that one brief shining moment, SNL was relevant.


----------



## SG-Rocker

vadsy said:


> I've learned my lesson, thanks. lets leave this discussion for when we finally meet in real life.


Let's not rush to conclusions, I just dropped the line in the water with that comment, it might take a bit for the piranhas to notice it and strike. 



vadsy said:


> I have nothing against the scriptures. problem usually resides with the people who use it


I concurr. 



vadsy said:


> non for me. had to edit my post


I was of the same mindset until a few months ago. I have since changed my view on the subject. Moderation, like everything else is key.



vadsy said:


> I think we should look probably address what those members were saying... or look at their deleted posts, their bans from that same unmoderated section and ...who survived based on who their friends were. in the end I just replied to their posts, *I see it more like holding them accountable for all their free speech-ing*


_Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord._
Romans 12:19

_Judge not, that ye be not judged._ 
Matthew 7:1

And in closing....


----------



## vadsy

lets keep the preaching down to a dull roar

in conclusion,. I see it as a total win. years of those guys talking tough and poking fun at snowflakes and safe spaces, ...in the end they reported someone for hurting their feelings and got them kicked out of their safe space. lol. 

it was wasted time anyway, the politics and thoughtful discussion left that place long ago, as did some of the decent membership. it just became a place to complain mostly and not the good kind of complaining. 

about 6 months ago I started chatting with a member from that section, we didn't get along on screen but had great chats behind the scenes. he noticed I started pushing some boundaries with those guys and made some comments, I replied I had a plan to get banned by Christmas. took a little longer I guess


----------



## keto

Hilarious.


----------



## Jim Wellington

SG-Rocker said:


> SNL has been irrelevant since Norm MacDonald was canned.





SG-Rocker said:


> Nothing wrong with bible verses.


----------



## allthumbs56

vadsy said:


> lets keep the preaching down to a dull roar
> 
> in conclusion,. I see it as a total win. years of those guys talking tough and poking fun at snowflakes and safe spaces, ...in the end they reported someone for hurting their feelings and got them kicked out of their safe space. lol.
> 
> it was wasted time anyway, the politics and thoughtful discussion left that place long ago, as did some of the decent membership. it just became a place to complain mostly and not the good kind of complaining.
> 
> about 6 months ago I started chatting with a member from that section, we didn't get along on screen but had great chats behind the scenes. he noticed I started pushing some boundaries with those guys and made some comments, I replied I had a plan to get banned by Christmas. took a little longer I guess


In summary, you wouldn't want to join any club that'd have you as a member


----------



## SG-Rocker

Great news for vaccinated Americans....









Fully vaccinated people can ditch masks indoors, physical distancing: CDC


People who are fully vaccinated against coronavirus no longer need to wear masks indoors or outdoors or physical distance while in large and small gatherings, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky announced during a White House COVID-19 briefing Thursday.




www.foxnews.com





Sadly this doesn't seem to apply to our Metric variant.


----------



## allthumbs56

SG-Rocker said:


> Great news for vaccinated Americans....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fully vaccinated people can ditch masks indoors, physical distancing: CDC
> 
> 
> People who are fully vaccinated against coronavirus no longer need to wear masks indoors or outdoors or physical distance while in large and small gatherings, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky announced during a White House COVID-19 briefing Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly this doesn't seem to apply to our Metric variant.


Well, we knew we were gonna be months behind them - now it's just a matter of how many months and what happens if more variants attack in the meantime. Currently we have 3.54% of Canadians *totally vaccinated* compared to their 35.6%. That's a pretty big difference to make up. If and when we do I'm sure our masks will come off too.

October, maybe.


----------



## mhammer

SG-Rocker said:


> Great news for vaccinated Americans....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fully vaccinated people can ditch masks indoors, physical distancing: CDC
> 
> 
> People who are fully vaccinated against coronavirus no longer need to wear masks indoors or outdoors or physical distance while in large and small gatherings, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky announced during a White House COVID-19 briefing Thursday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.foxnews.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly this doesn't seem to apply to our Metric variant.


Personally, I think the CDC is rushing things. New York Yankees say 8 vaccinated members tested positive for Covid-19. Here's how that could happen
I think there are a number of things fully vaccinated folks can now be comfortable and permitted to do, but I think the reins have been loosened a little too much. The "metric" is not what share of the populace has been vaccinated. The metric is the case count. Yes, 50,000 new cases a day is not 300,000 cases a day, but by any professional measure, that counts as an epidemic. Bring it down to 5,000 a day, nationally, and then we'll talk.


----------



## SG-Rocker

mhammer said:


> Personally, I think the CDC is rushing things. New York Yankees say 8 vaccinated members tested positive for Covid-19. Here's how that could happen
> I think there are a number of things fully vaccinated folks can now be comfortable and permitted to do, but I think the reins have been loosened a little too much. The "metric" is not what share of the populace has been vaccinated. The metric is the case count. Yes, 50,000 new cases a day is not 300,000 cases a day, but by any professional measure, that counts as an epidemic. Bring it down to 5,000 a day, nationally, and then we'll talk.


It was a joke based upon America's use of imperial measurement vice Canada's use of metric.


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## Doug Gifford

Got my shot today. The longest part was driving to the arena in Brockville. Everything there was well-planned and well-implemented, relaxed and pleasant. I didn't even feel the needle.


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## mhammer

SG-Rocker said:


> It was a joke based upon America's use of imperial measurement vice Canada's use of metric.


I know. I DO have a sense of humour.  Not always widely shared, but it's in there. I promise. Just a sec. I saw it a minute ago. Is that it? Here, let me move this stuff out of the way. Hmmm, maybe it was in that drawer. "Honey, have you seen my sense of humour? I was using it just yesterday! Maybe it's in my other pants." Crap. I'll bet you it's in the dryer, when I forgot to take it out of my back pocket.

I'll have to get back to you on that.


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## laristotle

mhammer said:


> Honey, have you seen my sense of humour?


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## numb41

laristotle said:


> View attachment 365487


“Your” sense of humour? You copy and paste memes


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## laristotle

numb41 said:


> “Your” sense of humour? You copy and paste memes


Why work so hard?


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## allthumbs56

Has anybody read/heard about/worked out the possibility of getting/transmitting covid if you and another person are both vaccinated? No social distancing or masks - purely the strength of the vaccine.

If I recall my math (and it's pretty old) you multiply the two probabilities together for the resulting probability. In this case, if you are 75% protected then you are 25% susceptible. Two people who are 25% susceptible result in a probability of 6% susceptibility between them. Double-dosed at 95% each results in a very favourable probability of 0.25%. One quarter of a percentage point.

Does that sound right?

Am I missing part of the calculation? The part that starts with the probability of just being exposed in the first place?


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## keto

allthumbs56 said:


> Has anybody read/heard about/worked out the possibility of getting/transmitting covid if you and another person are both vaccinated? No social distancing or masks - purely the strength of the vaccine.
> 
> If I recall my math (and it's pretty old) you multiply the two probabilities together for the resulting probability. In this case, if you are 75% protected then you are 25% susceptible. Two people who are 25% susceptible result in a probability of 6% susceptibility between them. Double-dosed at 95% each results in a very favourable probability of 0.25%. One quarter of a percentage point.
> 
> Does that sound right?
> 
> Am I missing part of the calculation? The part that starts with the probability of just being exposed in the first place?


I'll try and find the article posted on talkbass the past few days. Possible, very unlikely (lots of zeroes after the decimal), even more unlikely to have more than very moderate symptoms anyways. Yes, vaccinated people are getting it, but not so much passing it on, because they're vaccinated and so throw off very little 'load'.


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## Jim DaddyO

Getting the jab tomorrow.


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## allthumbs56

Jim DaddyO said:


> Getting the jab tomorrow.


Great stuff Jim. Soon we can all take off our masks when we type to each other 👍


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## mhammer

allthumbs56 said:


> Has anybody read/heard about/worked out the possibility of getting/transmitting covid if you and another person are both vaccinated? No social distancing or masks - purely the strength of the vaccine.
> 
> If I recall my math (and it's pretty old) you multiply the two probabilities together for the resulting probability. In this case, if you are 75% protected then you are 25% susceptible. Two people who are 25% susceptible result in a probability of 6% susceptibility between them. Double-dosed at 95% each results in a very favourable probability of 0.25%. One quarter of a percentage point.
> 
> Does that sound right?
> 
> Am I missing part of the calculation? The part that starts with the probability of just being exposed in the first place?


As far as I know, that's not how the math works. The 75% figure is derived from how many fewer people who got the vaccine got sick, compared to those who got placebo, when walking around among other people. They're not 75% less sick. So if you're one of those NOT protected by the vaccine, and you're in the company of someone else like that, or someone unvaccinated, there's much better than a 0.25% chance you'll get sick. 

The thing is, vaccination dramatically increases the odds that, if infected, one can successfully fight it off and not get really sick. The odds depend as much on one's individual immune system as on the particular vaccine. But WHILE you're "fighting it off", you can still be contagious. Maybe not oozing virus out of every pore, but not clean as a whistle either. We're collectively relying on the constellation of person X having robust immune response and person Y not shedding enough virus to exceed what X's immune system can handle. That's why we're not dropping dead of the flu every winter.

Think of it this way. If someone came over to your house who was just getting over the flu, would you want them fixing you a meal, or would you prefer they leave the cooking up to you? They're not REALLY sick, and will probably get over it in a few days, but for now you'd probably rather they not exhale over your plate.

I do wish health officials had explained this better. Got a note today from a colleague in the U.S, government concerning a survey they are conducting about competencies that would be valuable for incoming federal employees to have. I replied that, for me, explanatory skill would top the list. The confusion many have about vaccines and contagion provides a good illustration of why and how such skill is important. "Trust me, it's good for you" is not n explanation. What you want is communication that results in people saying "ohhhhh, NOW I get it. Yeah that makes sense. Now I know what I need to do."

On a side-note, interesting item on the Washington Post site today. Seems there is a subgroup of people for whom the vaccines do not work. This includes people such as those recovering from organ transplants, who would be taking immune-suppression drugs to avoid organ rejection. I like to describe vaccination as an "opportunity to learn" for your immune system. But if your immune system is not attending school....


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## allthumbs56

mhammer said:


> As far as I know, that's not how the math works. The 75% figure is derived from how many fewer people who got the vaccine got sick, compared to those who got placebo, when walking around among other people. They're not 75% less sick. So if you're one of those NOT protected by the vaccine, and you're in the company of someone else like that, or someone unvaccinated, there's much better than a 0.25% chance you'll get sick.
> 
> The thing is, vaccination dramatically increases the odds that, if infected, one can successfully fight it off and not get really sick. The odds depend as much on one's individual immune system as on the particular vaccine. But WHILE you're "fighting it off", you can still be contagious. Maybe not oozing virus out of every pore, but not clean as a whistle either. We're collectively relying on the constellation of person X having robust immune response and person Y not shedding enough virus to exceed what X's immune system can handle. That's why we're not dropping dead of the flu every winter.
> 
> Think of it this way. If someone came over to your house who was just getting over the flu, would you want them fixing you a meal, or would you prefer they leave the cooking up to you? They're not REALLY sick, and will probably get over it in a few days, but for now you'd probably rather they not exhale over your plate.
> 
> I do wish health officials had explained this better. Got a note today from a colleague in the U.S, government concerning a survey they are conducting about competencies that would be valuable for incoming federal employees to have. I replied that, for me, explanatory skill would top the list. The confusion many have about vaccines and contagion provides a good illustration of why and how such skill is important. "Trust me, it's good for you" is not n explanation. What you want is communication that results in people saying "ohhhhh, NOW I get it. Yeah that makes sense. Now I know what I need to do."
> 
> On a side-note, interesting item on the Washington Post site today. Seems there is a subgroup of people for whom the vaccines do not work. This includes people such as those recovering from organ transplants, who would be taking immune-suppression drugs to avoid organ rejection. I like to describe vaccination as an "opportunity to learn" for your immune system. But if your immune system is not attending school....


Thanks but we already know all of that. What I was hoping for was for someone who knew how to treat this like a math problem. You say my math is wrong - it's been a long time. There are mathemeticians at Pfizer and in Health Canada, etc that used math to peg the one dose efficacy at 75%. As an expert statistician can you run with that a little and work out what the number would be for two people at that 75% each? How about if one of them is at 95%?

I'm sorry if I've gotten your background wrong but is this not an interesting exercise to play with for someone who's education and living was in probabilities?


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## mturk

Here is an article that looks into your question. According to the article the vaccine efficacy numbers were calculated based on relative risks, not on absolute risk which seems to be what you’re asking about. You probably won’t like what they are saying though. 
Vaccine Makers Claim COVID Shots Are ‘95% Effective’ — But What Does That Mean? • Children's Health Defense


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## mhammer

Correct. One of my complaints is that the "effectiveness" of the various vaccines, at different points in time, has not been well explained. So much so that people of good and sincere intent, like Chris and many others, have misunderstood *population* risk as if it was *individual* risk. Worse, some treat it as if it was an index of personal infection severity (i.e., if the vaccine is 95% "effective" then I'll only get 5% sick, instead of the full 100%, and that's fine with me).

That's why I like to describe myself as a measurement guy, and not a statistician. The math may be spot on, Chris. The real question is whether the numbers represent what they are meant or thought to represent. And in this case, I think they do not.


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## allthumbs56

mturk said:


> Here is an article that looks into your question. According to the article the vaccine efficacy numbers were calculated based on relative risks, not on absolute risk which seems to be what you’re asking about. You probably won’t like what they are saying though.
> Vaccine Makers Claim COVID Shots Are ‘95% Effective’ — But What Does That Mean? • Children's Health Defense


Thanks for that - it was an interesting read. What they are saying doesn't bother me. It's nothing that the "Anti-everything" camp doesn't say every day.

Regardless, it did not address my question - I'll keep looking.


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## allthumbs56

mhammer said:


> Correct. One of my complaints is that the "effectiveness" of the various vaccines, at different points in time, has not been well explained. So much so that people of good and sincere intent, like Chris and many others, have misunderstood *population* risk as if it was *individual* risk. Worse, some treat it as if it was an index of personal infection severity (i.e., if the vaccine is 95% "effective" then I'll only get 5% sick, instead of the full 100%, and that's fine with me).
> 
> That's why I like to describe myself as a measurement guy, and not a statistician. The math may be spot on, Chris. The real question is whether the numbers represent what they are meant or thought to represent. And in this case, I think they do not.


True - my question was very much regarding "individual risk" - but that is very much at the heart of the matter. At the center of our little monkey brains we are concerned with our own survival. To me it's important to understand the individual risk in numerous circumstances - only then can one determine what risk they are willing to take when exposing themselves to a whole variety of circumstances. As such I tried to start with the simplest of circumstances - two vaccinated people in a room. If we can't even know that then we're just stumbling around in the dark and the "anti-vaxxers" have got a pretty strong case.

As an FYI, when it comes to "population risk", I have been recording the progress of the UK, Israel, USA and Canada's vaccinations and case/death results for some time now and it's fair to say that vaccines are working - in a big way.

For example, in Israel they had a daily high in mid-January of 10,200 new cases. Today the number is 8. Deaths have fallen from 80 to 3. In the UK, mid-January was 81,500 new cases and 1,800 deaths. Today it's 2,412 and 7. In the US, same dating, they've fallen from 312,000 and 3,200 to 27,500 and 730 respectively.

Either vaccines are working - or something incredibly circumstantial is at play.

** Edit ** Some may find this interesting:









United States of America: WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Dashboard With Vaccination Data


United States of America Coronavirus(COVID-19) statistics. Total and daily confirmed cases and deaths.




covid19.who.int





(put in whatever country you wish to look at)

Of note, the UK and Israel - countries that got started early on vaccinations, never had a "third wave". The USA had what could best be described as a "ripple".


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## Jim DaddyO

Got my microchip...err...vax shot today.

Apart from the elbow developing on my forehead everything is fine.


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## allthumbs56

Jim DaddyO said:


> Got my microchip...err...vax shot today.
> 
> *Apart from the elbow developing on my forehead *everything is fine.


Too bad - if it were a hand you could use it to hold lyrics 😕


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## Paul M

mturk said:


> Here is an article that looks into your question. According to the article the vaccine efficacy numbers were calculated based on relative risks, not on absolute risk which seems to be what you’re asking about. You probably won’t like what they are saying though.
> Vaccine Makers Claim COVID Shots Are ‘95% Effective’ — But What Does That Mean? • Children's Health Defense


If these folks were talking about drowning, they would reject wearing a pfd because it doesn't prevent you from getting wet.


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## mhammer

An elbow growing out of one's forehead could have been a real asset to Gordie Howe. He would have still had both arms free to stick-handle and shoot.

Individual vs population risk: There are a lot of things whose individual risk are nigh impossible to calculate. For instance, we can't *know* the probability that you're going to have a collision and traumatic brain injury this week, because you didn't wear a seatbelt. All we have are numbers for collective/population risk.

Moreover, one of the regular flaws in human reasoning, largely prompted by the availability heuristic, is that we mistake anecdotal examples for population statistics, and then derive "individual risk" from that generalization. It's what we do.


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## allthumbs56

mhammer said:


> All we have are numbers for collective/population risk.


The basis of Actuarial Science - and as good as it gets. I'll be the insurance industry has got some great numbers on covid risk.


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## Jim DaddyO

A little lathargec today. Had nothing scheduled so I napped. Some localized discomfort yesterday and today, not enough that I would call it pain. Pretty uneventful in my opinion.

There was that one jolt though, I think when the microchip was connecting to Bill Gates' database. 😜


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## allthumbs56

Jim DaddyO said:


> There was that one jolt though, I think when the microchip was connecting to Bill Gates' database. 😜


Or when the spikes dig in


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## mhammer

Jim DaddyO said:


> A little lathargec today. Had nothing scheduled so I napped. Some localized discomfort yesterday and today, not enough that I would call it pain. Pretty uneventful in my opinion.
> 
> There was that one jolt though, I think when the microchip was connecting to Bill Gates' database. 😜


If you start receiving packages from Amazon that you have no recollection of ever ordering, THEN start worrying about the chip.


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## Jim DaddyO

mhammer said:


> THEN start worrying about the chip.


I realize that the problem with saying something so outlandish you couldn't rightly think anyone could believe it is, someone will believe it.


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## JBFairthorne

...it could be true.


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## Wardo

Jim DaddyO said:


> Apart from the elbow developing on my forehead everything is fine.


There's a class action where some people got the vaccine and then grew a where there nose was.

Sorry, wrong forum ... lol


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## mhammer

duplicate


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## Nork

I got mine when we were vaxing ICU staff.


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## AJ6stringsting

I recieved my 2nd shot two weeks ago, no side effects ....
One thing, your arm will feeling you had a mean " Charlie Horse" .

Pfizer shot is not that bad


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## laristotle




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## Doug Gifford

Jim DaddyO said:


> A little lathargec today. Had nothing scheduled so I napped. Some localized discomfort yesterday and today, not enough that I would call it pain. Pretty uneventful in my opinion.
> 
> There was that one jolt though, I think when the microchip was connecting to Bill Gates' database. 😜


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## keto

Why COVID cases in world's most immunized nation are rising despite vaccine push - BNN Bloomberg


Cases in the world’s most vaccinated nation are ticking up, forcing researchers to wage war against misinformation on whether jabs are effective.




www.bnnbloomberg.ca


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## Tone Chaser

Got my 2nd shot today. So two weeks from now, I should be good to go anywhere, and do anything.


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## Doug Gifford

The kids (19&22) got their shots today at our doctor's clinic, so the family have all had one shot. Second shots late summer.

The clinic had a couple of extra shots and I phoned around to recruit people using my phone's contacts. Not many folks at home, landlines are going out of service and everybody I did reach already had their shots. Which is good!


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## Always12AM

I got Pfizer a couple of weeks ago.
Was out chopping down logs and stacking them the next day.

I’m going to try to get moderna in my neck next week to see what happens. Being 160% protected I’ll be back to licking railings in no time.


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## laristotle

EDITORIAL: COVID flip-flops erode public trust


While it’s understandable that Canadian governments change their approach to combatting COVID-19 as we learn more about it, what undermines public confidence…




torontosun.com




_On May 17, the World Health Organization regional office for Africa advised that the Indian-produced version of AstraZeneca/Covishield — also used in Canada — should not be used to vaccinate people beyond its expiry date, noting the issue was not safety, but potency.

According to the WHO: “Any vaccine that has passed its expiry date, including Covishield, should not be administered …. The shelf-life of a vaccine is a reflection of how long the vaccine retains its potency and stability at a given storage temperature and therefore its effectiveness. The shelf-life is used to establish the expiry date of each batch of the vaccine product. Expiry dates do not affect the safety of the vaccine, rather are related to the potency or amount of protection the vaccine gives.”

If this doesn’t apply to Canada, why not?_


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## mhammer

The vaccines may have the same company name but are produced in a variety of facilities, stored differently until shipping, and shipped/distributed in different ways over different distances to different destinations. Recent data indicates the AstraZeneca can remain stable for a bit longer than initially thought. Not a LOT longer, but long enough to make a difference in availability/usability in a given batch.
When I shop for milk, I can end up rejecting what's available from the same producer/manufacturer at the first 2-3 grocery chains because the expiry date is too soon.


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## FatStrat2

My doc recommended if you've already had COVID, that you skip the shot. He's just following what I already know from grade 10 biology, nothing new here.


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## mhammer

There are enough reports of people who have "had" the virus, and even been vaccinated, contracting it again. Not thousands upon thousands, of course, but it happens and is documented. The extent to which a prior exposure was intense enough to elicit a strong and durable immune response is the sort of thing one should not rely on hunches about. If testing indicates lots of antibodies, and verifiable relevant biological indicators of immunity, great. I suppose one is in the clear. However:
a) lots of folks who were sure they had it and successfully got over it may not have actually been tested to confirm it,
b) there are emerging variants which may be able to "sneak past" one's existing immunity to an earlier form,
c) there's a reason why many of the available vaccines presume the need for a 2nd booster shot in order to firmly establish a lasting immunity.

It's a bit like renting a car. You can skip the insurance, or you can save yourself a LOT of misery and money by buying it.


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## keto

FatStrat2 said:


> My doc recommended if you've already had COVID, that you skip the shot. He's just following what I already know from grade 10 biology, nothing new here.


I agree with you, unreservedly, on the biology part. My amateur science mind wonders if there are varieties of immunity, ie, would an mRNA shot give you something additional?

I'm also wondering about the need for a 2nd shot, given a) about 10-15% additional efficacy, not that much, not for the most vulnerable obviously, they should, but for jane average age 36 with very little likelihood to suffer serious health concerns even without shot #1, not zero but very very few people are hospitalized after shot #1, right? and b) likely boosters in the future being the current thinking.


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## FatStrat2

^ Yeah, it's tough to say.

My doc says this thing is basically a supercharged flu, but with the same RNA/DNA as a regular one. And those who've recovered are immune for life - that is, until the next version (not variant) comes along. This all jibes w/ what I learned many years ago.

And my regular (basic) car insurance has always covered rentals, so no 'additional' coverage required.


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## Wardo

In addition to the supercharged flu notion there is supposedly a vascular disease component which if correct kinda ups the game a bit to something beyond flu.


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## Moosehead

I joined a 3rd phase clinical study for the only canadian vaccine (medicago). They just released their results from the 2nd trial phase. @keto Their vaccine produced 10 times the antibody response compared to those who had already contracted covid. So yes getting vaccinated builds a better immune response, most likely pfizer would as well. 

Ive had 2 shots in the first phase of the study. pretty sure i got the real thing, some minor side effects from the second shot (chills, headache, fatigue) but they coincided with a nasty hangover so who knows. Second phase crossover is coming up so ill be for sure vaccinated by end of june. 

If anyone is hesitant check out the Medicago vaccine, made in canada and from plants! safe and as close to 100 efficacy as you can get.






Medicago and GSK announce positive interim Phase 2 results for adjuvanted COVID-19 vaccine candidate


Medicago is a leading clinical-stage biopharmaceutical company using disruptive plant-based and virus-like particle (VLP) technologies to rapidly develop innovative vaccines and protein-based therapeutics for infectious diseases and emerging public health challenges.




www.medicago.com




.


----------



## HighNoon

Moosehead said:


> I joined a 3rd phase clinical study for the only canadian vaccine (medicago). They just released their results from the 2nd trial phase. @keto Their vaccine produced 10 times the antibody response compared to those who had already contracted covid. So yes getting vaccinated builds a better immune response, most likely pfizer would as well.
> 
> Ive had 2 shots in the first phase of the study. pretty sure i got the real thing, some minor side effects from the second shot (chills, headache, fatigue) but they coincided with a nasty hangover so who knows. Second phase crossover is coming up so ill be for sure vaccinated by end of june.
> 
> If anyone is hesitant check out the Medicago vaccine, made in canada and from plants! safe and as close to 100 efficacy as you can get.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Medicago and GSK announce positive interim Phase 2 results for adjuvanted COVID-19 vaccine candidate
> 
> 
> Medicago is a leading clinical-stage biopharmaceutical company using disruptive plant-based and virus-like particle (VLP) technologies to rapidly develop innovative vaccines and protein-based therapeutics for infectious diseases and emerging public health challenges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.medicago.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I remember their presentation from early last year. I was somewhat dismayed when the attention and money went to working with the CCP, and not supporting the home team, especially with their novel approach to production and potential increase in safety.


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## Jim Wellington

*


----------



## mhammer

FatStrat2 said:


> My doc recommended if you've already had COVID, that you skip the shot. He's just following what I already know from grade 10 biology, nothing new here.


Listening to CBC radio today, they reported that a study of people who had contracted and "beaten" Covid-19, and subsequently been vaccinated, had something like 50x the level of immune-system indicator of protection against the virus, compared to people who had been previously diagnosed but not yet been vaccinated.

Your doctor is correct that, having had the virus, you have _some_ protection. But it would appear that infection-prompted immune response plus vaccine provides much greater immunity. I won't fault your doc. This result was likely well in excess of what *anybody* expected.


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## butterknucket

I got my first shot yesterday. So far I only feel tired, but no nausea or anything like that.


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## butterknucket




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## bzrkrage

Today marks 14 days since 2nd shot. So, should be fully downloaded ready to comply.
Oh, and this is how it’s done Stampede style....


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## Latole

I will have my second shot tomorrow. Yeah !


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## allthumbs56

Latole said:


> I will have my second shot tomorrow. Yeah !


Next Wednesday. Then I'm gonna start licking microphones 😎


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