# cork sniffers



## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

so...i got a little upset about a recent post...and vented a little...but heres the thing...

my recent acquisition is a beater guitar...plywood, shitty hardware et al...i have no issue with this...my theory is...i want to learn, i want to learn on something that i'm not going to regret butchering...so...if i don't want to put high end pickups in it, why should i? if i paid $80 for a 40 yr old guitar...why should i put $70+ pickups in it?

heres what gets me though...i understand the stigma of guitars...for all purposes this will be about electrics, i understand acoustics enough to know not to get into this...but here it is...

just b/c a guitar doesn't say PRS or Gibson on the headstock...why do people look down on them? i've seen people with great tone from Epi's and mid-level guitars...and i've heard terrible tone from people with Gibby's and PRS's...

to me...a guitar is a tool...just b/c a tool isn't expensive, doesn't mean its going to sound terrible...i have a jay turser...everybody hates them...i think that it plays fine, and i can get a great tone out of it that pleases me...and others, i've been complimented many times on it...

so why does a name really mean all that much...we've all played shitty guitars...we've all played good guitars...i have no high end guitars, but i feel i have better tone than a couple friends with 'nicer' gear...Epi's are quite good quality if you get a good one, but they are frowned on by Gibby owners...i have a 70's Univox LP custom that stays in tune, plays better, and sounds better than a friends Gibson LP standard...

it just seems a little retarded to me to look down on someone b/c rather than spend 2G on a Gibby, they bought a $500 epi...

i think that if you can get a great tone out of what you want, you shouldn;t be lookd down on...unfortunately, thats not the way it is...

my $80 guitar...isn't that great...but hey, i knew that going in...my turser will never have the stigma that an actual LP has, nor my Univox...but, i was the belle of the ball with my Agile doubleneck the other night...at a fraction of the cost of a gibby...but hey...who knows

Jimmy Page played Dano's...a bargain guitar...nobody insults that....Ricky next door buys one, and everyone jumps on him for not saving and buying a real guitar...just seems asinine...

and before the flamin starts...i've played some gibby's, LTD's, PRS's, EB's...some of liked, some i've hated...one day i will get a Gibby so that i won't be looked down on...but until then...i'm happy taking decent guitars and making them mine...shouldn't we all?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

This is a debate that has raged on for many years


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

addendum...

with the way people talk about how sub-par Gibby quality is, and how decent Epi quality is...does it really matter if its a "brand" name anymore?

i know one guy that just bought a Standard, says he can't keep it in tune, and its a fight to play it somedays...I just get mind-boogled when i hear this, and then see the way some people treat people that don't buy into the whole "branding" issue...


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

If anyone looks down on someone for something that they own it says more about the person who does the 'looking down'. 

The only other things I will address is 
#1 that your bud's LP Standard is probably set up poorly and 
#2 the talk about 'sub-par Gibby quality' is largely overblown and largely horse shizzle - most of the trash talkers have some sort of agenda


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I have owned a ton of guitars over the years. $75 pawn shop specials to vintage Gibson and Fender. The best guitar I have ever played in an LP design is my Heritage Gary Moore. I also had an Epi LP for a few years and I had that sucker dialed in man. Dropped some Duncan's in it and that was all I did to it. The other few that stand out were the Hamers I have had. Outstanding guitars with little respect. Not cheap mind you. Neither are the Heritage guitars. But they don't command the respect that Gibson does. The best Strat style I ever had was the Fender Jeff Beck.

Many off brand and little known brands over the years. I owned 2 Mason Bernards over the years. Outstanding quality. Got them both fairly cheap. One for $175 actually. Very rare though. I find the best quality is in the brands that have been around a long time but have never gained that mystique of the big guys. One is Lado. You can't get them for $85 but you can get them for well below list price.

In terms of stuff like Jay Turser. Personally they are a bit below what I would go after today. But that's just me. I did however find that Alex Chase for $140 and that is a very well built guitar. Excellent quality and materials. So all depends.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

In my business I see all manner of guitars. Among the cheap ones there are some complete crapola and some real gems. This goes for electrics and acoustics. Remember how cheaply those Danelectros are built? But the tones are classic. Those Yamaha plywood dreads? Great playability and respectable tone. I like the idea of finding the diamond in the rough, dressing it up a little, taking pride in it, and with a little luck getting some nice tones from it.

Cork sniffers in my experience are either snobs or quite insecure, or both. Don't make eye contact.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

When I read your post, the first thing I thought about was TGP, or the Les Paul Forum.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I have a book on luthier Danny Ferrington's guitars. He does some fancy stuff, and does some very minimalist stuff too, but is probably best known for his Strat, Tele, and Explorer-shaped acoustics that he did with Kramer. Do an image search for Ferrington guitars and you'll see plenty of examples of his work that he's done for some pretty high-end clients.

Anyway, he recounts in the book that he wanted to try out a particular pickup, so he cut out a Strat body from plywood, stuck the pickup and a bridge and neck on it - securely but with little attention to cosmetic detail since it was only conceived of as a temporary thing. Later that day, Ry Cooder walks in to the shop, sees the "one hour" guitar, tries it out, falls in love with it, and insists on taking it to the studio that day. And he records with it.

Is there anyone with a *better* ear for tone than Cooder? (and we distinguish between type of tone and ear for tone) I doubt it.

Let the cork-sniffers suck on that.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

IMHO, all that really matters is that you like the gear you have and you get the tone(s) you enjoy from it. 

Cheers

Dave


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

I agree with greco!


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I got confused for a minute by the thread title.

[video=youtube;ScXTP_Jz814]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScXTP_Jz814[/video]


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

greco said:


> IMHO, all that really matters is that you like the gear you have and you get the tone(s) you enjoy from it.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


I'm with Greco on this one. I've owned (and still own) plenty of high end guitars from great R9's, wicked Fender Custom Shop, PRS Private Stock and some high end LP clones and so on. Some were incredible and I've held onto those, but some were dogs and quickly sold. On the more modest end, I have an MIK Sheraton and an EPI Custom, whose fit and finish are perfect. Great tone (I switched the PUPS and electronics), and great playability. If you close your eyes and just listen, I defy anyone to guess they are sub $500.00 guitars. I worked on the Sheraton myself and I'm a clutz. Anyone ever change the wiring on a semi hollow? What a pain, but it was fun to experiment with. The Sheraton is as good as any 335 that I've played. Right now I'm working on an Esquire, parts were cheap and I'm putting her altogether this summer. Probably the whole thing will be a few hundred and we'll wait to hear how she sounds in the end. Music is supposed to be fun, not necessarily expensive. Enjoy what you have. If you like it, who am I to criticize your choice?


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

It all boils down to ego, really. My guitar was more expensive than yours ergo my penis is larger. Ego is the backbone of branding, and we're all guilty of buying into it. If not with guitars, then with cars, or shoes, watches, phones, computers, etc.

Having said that, there is nothing wrong with people who spend the money to own a high quality instrument made out of quality wood and quality parts. They're not getting the best bang for their buck, but they're getting the biggest bang. There is no reason you should be subject to being looked down on by them unless you're trying to tell the people who have the professional grade guitars that your agile and jay turser are just as good...it's clearly an ill chosen argument, similar to "my kia is as good as your porsche because they essentially do the same thing"


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

Wait, are we looking down on people who look down on people? Help me get my soapbox facing the right direction here. ;-p

Out of curiosity I found the post this thread refers to, because I hadn't read it. I dunno, I think it was just a guy expressing his own opinion--I.e., "You get what you pay for" combined with "Don't settle for less". I don't think he had any corks to sniff. *shrug*

When I was a kid my parents bought me cheap clothes and cheap food (I won't go into why, but we had the money for better stuff). When I wanted clothes that were fashionable or shoes that lasted more than one month, I bought them myself. I worked and saved for stuff. These days I still prefer to spend on quality things, because, in the case of guitars, they sound better to me. Frankly, I'd much prefer to buy cheap stuff--why waste money, all else being equal? I grew up comparing cheap things my parents bought to not-cheap things I bought and my friends had and I always saw a clear difference. If you wanna compare gear to tools, anyone who works with tools professionally always buys the best they can afford. I no longer use my gear professionally, but years of being around great instruments means my ears know the difference, which is a good and bad thing. The good news is that these days, with decent stuff being made overseas cheaply, you can actually get reasonably good gear much more cheaply than you used to be able to (adjusting for inflation).

That said, play what you want. When we had that poll here about buying name brands, I voted that names brands don't mean a thing to me. The only guitar I currently have that is a name brand is my PRS. Everything else is either put together out of parts or made by luthiers most people won't have heard of. But I like how they sound.


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

(Nevermind).


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

some years ago, i mentioned in a thread that i was liking an a&l ami.
i was playing slide stuff, and it has a boxy, mid-rangy voice thats great for that.
a poster replied that no pro studio would let me in the door with that guitar.
despite the fact that i didnt want to get in the door of any pro studio, it still irked me.
because its so patently false, but obviously this guy believed it.

or how about the time somebody wanted opinions on cheap resonators, because they thought theyd like to try one.
a couple guys said "dont bother. save up and buy a national."
maybe in 1955 that would make sense, but with loads of $300 resonators out there, 
it makes no sense for anyone to pay $2500 or so to find out if they like it or not.

recently i bought a new guitar.
i played it a bunch of times, looked it over.
i found all the rumblings ive seen all over the internet about this guitar to be nonsense,
and i bought it.
its a chinese danelectro. 
i dont care who knows it.
i wouldnt have bought it if it was crap- 

im not new to guitars by any stretch of the imagination.
i may have never owned an expensive gibson, or martin, or fender.
no lollar or fralin pickups, no $500 stompboxes, no boutique amps.
but thats because ive never needed to.
i use stuff i like, stuff i can use, and i keep it.

anyway, bottom line is, use what works, sound good, have fun, be happy.
dont become the guy desperately trying to move the $3500 guitar hes had for 6 months to fund the next big purchase.
because thats the guy who never needed the guitar in the first place, and likely doesnt need the other thing hes selling to fund.
and he probably sounds like santana anyway, so you can laugh at that.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Mark P said:


> (Nevermind).


I liked the joke...but I fully understand your reason for the edit. 
Multiple interpretations were certainly possible/likely.

Cheers

Dave


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

I love talking about guitar gear but frankly many of us get lost in it. If I spent half as much time playing my guitar as I do reading about boutique amps and pedals I'd be a much better player.

At the end of the day it's all about your fingers.

[video=youtube;dZNk76_4lds]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZNk76_4lds&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]


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## middleagedfart (May 9, 2012)

Considering the majority of the guitars on the market either are made in Asia or have hardware made in Asia, does it really matter. What really matters is that if you like the sound and the feel of the guitar, then it's good. I like the fact that one can purchase a mystery brand for a mere pittance, and upgrade of some hardware and get a great sounding instrument. Many a great tune was composed or performed on what some would consider a sub par guitar...some tone is from the instrument but the majority is from the player...


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

hardasmum said:


> I love talking about guitar gear but frankly many of us get lost in it. If I spent half as much time playing my guitar as I do reading about boutique amps and pedals I'd be a much better player.


So true. 

However, it is also so enjoyable to share our (individual and collective) enthusiasm about gear on this forum and to "meet" great folks from across Canada to discuss all sorts of other topics, in addition to gear.

Currently, some of my best friends are guys I have met through the GC forum. 

Cheers

Dave


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

nkjanssen said:


> ...or to put it another way:
> 
> $70 guitar + $100 pickups = $170 instrument that could actually sound great
> 
> ...


sure, that makes sense.
but, 
hes got a beater and wants to get it functioning.
theres nothing wrong with doing things cheaply,
either just for the fuck of it or out of necessity.

all this isnt really cork snifferey- its just different people with different opinions, different expectations.

anyway, when i made my earlier post, i had no idea what all this was about. 
thats why it sounds so random and crazy.
:food-smiley-004:


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## TheRumRunner (Sep 29, 2011)

Man I wish the $10 bottle of wine still came with a cork to sniff, I loved that and those twist tops cut the bottom of my snozz when I sniff them.

DW


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

greco said:


> hardasmum said:
> 
> 
> > I love talking about guitar gear but frankly many of us get lost in it. If I spent half as much time playing my guitar as I do reading about boutique amps and pedals I'd be a much better player.
> ...


My new year's revolution was to do exactly that, surf less & practice more. Oh well...

Can't recall any of the ladies I've had a relationship w/ taking an interest in my gear (although one got quite upset when I traded "Reddie" - - a gorgeous CS-356 w/ extra flamey maple, that went towards a Korina Vee) so I'm stuck chatting w/ youse guys. And it's been a lot of fun when I've had a chance to meet up w/ a few fellow GCers live & in person.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Some folk have short memories too. 

This forum has a heck of a wide range of people on it. Some folk here are auto mechanics and some are plumbers. Some are medical doctors and lawyers. A fair number of folk here have their own businesses even and there are folk like me who don't work, live off one income, have two kids and too much debt.

That is the monetary reality. Some of us will NEVER have money. I know I wont ever see any big income in what is left of my life. Some folk have health and drive and education they can reach for the brass ring and I applaud those people. People more like me have to and can find satisfaction with just a sunset on the lake in lieu of a million dollar painting on our walls in our homes. So the idea I could own a 5000 dollar instrument is just that, an idea. But that is OK too, because it is OK to dream. Waking up, the reality is that a 200 or 300 dollar guitar bought by financing it from L&M is what I can afford. Took me a year to pay for my acoustic, but I did it I paid all 250+tx!! YAY 

So. In terms of the instrument. What is best? Well, nothing is best. Sure, there is not good enough (wont tune, frets uneven electrical shot etc) but once you go past that, there really isn't a lot of long run difference between 100 and 100,000 dollar instruments. Seeing them all the time at L&M the used cheapies are no worse for the wear than the used not-cheapies.


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## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

There are some excellent inexpensive guitars, like a Yamaha 310 acoustic: plywood top, sells for under $200 and plays and sounds like some of their most expensive models. And there are more expensive guitars that just seem lacking. What counts is not who made it or how much it costs but how well it does what it is supposed to do for you.


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

keeperofthegood said:


> Some folk have short memories too.
> 
> This forum has a heck of a wide range of people on it. Some folk here are auto mechanics and some are plumbers. Some are medical doctors and lawyers. A fair number of folk here have their own businesses even and there are folk like me who don't work, live off one income, have two kids and too much debt.
> 
> ...


I remember buying my first guitar, it was a Gibson J45. I bought it in 1960 cost me $205.00 plus tax I paid $50.00 down and then three payments of $50.00 plus the tax. I didn't buy it to be better than anyone else where I lived that was all the music store sold and there was only one music store. I have never bought an off brand guitar, not because I felt better than other guitar players it was just what I grew up with. The large department stores sold some cheap things but I didn't have one of their credit cards so I went to the local music stores they let me buy on time. I still buy Gibson and Fender today.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Actually I always shake my head when I hear someone rave about their "classic" Silvertones , Framuses and many forgettable others. In their day they were considered bottom of the barrel crap. Even low end Gibsons and Fenders were considered kiddy guitars. I admit they have a nostalgic patina to them and I even liked Les Paul Juniors and Mustangs at the time, much to my embarassment, but really... It was only the punk movement of the mid seventies, the "I can't afford a real guitar so fuck you" attitude that made them popular.

That being said, I believe that any instrument that yanks your crank has done more than well in serving it's purpose. Modern "low end" instruments are head and shoulders in quality above equivalently priced instruments of the past. It really is the player that makes the difference.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I have the opinion of "buy what you can afford".
I have no problem with someone dropping big cash on a guitar if that's what they want and nobody goes without because of it.
Just don't look down your nose because you can though.

I also have no problem when someone picks up a more affordable instrument, whether due to bugetary issues,
or the guitar just spoke to them. It all boils down to *personal *preference and situations.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

I don't think it mean doodly squat how much dough you flash out on a super high end guitar, means nothing if you can't play it. Then again I've seen guys who play like mad but leave me cold... 

And then there's this guy. Seems to be doing Alright these days.

[video=youtube;S-vSZFEWHlo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-vSZFEWHlo&amp;feature=related[/video]

D'ya see who's playing bass for him?? :sSig_cool2:


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

washburned said:


> There are some excellent inexpensive guitars, like a Yamaha 310 acoustic: plywood top, sells for under $200 and plays and sounds like some of their most expensive models. And there are more expensive guitars that just seem lacking. What counts is not who made it or how much it costs but how well it does what it is supposed to do for you.


Ya shoulda spent $225 and got that Yamaha 460 S like me .. killer acoustic....ALMOST as good as Martin...no fears at the campfire anyway. 

A guitar is a tool. Not all tools are created equal ( can we all agree on that?). I have been lucky and owned couple good ones. Built a few good ones. 

In the end if it plays, stays in tune it will do the job it is supposed to. After buying a few JS Moore pickups, I still think that even on an inexpensive guitar it is a worthy upgrade. Like putting a decent blade on a saw....

edit... I have avoided Gibsons because of the dreaded headstock issues though


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Anyone want to make any bets on how long this thread is going to be?

Cheers

Dave


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

shoretyus said:


> Ya shoulda spent $225 and got that Yamaha 460 S like me .. killer acoustic....ALMOST as good as Martin...no fears at the campfire anyway.
> 
> A guitar is a tool. Not all tools are created equal ( can we all agree on that?). I have been lucky and owned couple good ones. Built a few good ones.
> 
> ...


 yup. 
If it feels like a guitar, sounds like a guitar, plays like a guitar and maybe even looks like a guitar and somebody is playing it.............then
It must be! Kinda , I guess?
Fender Strats almost slid out of production (so the rumour goes) till' Jimi burned his, now look what a 3 bolt is going for.
Who wudda' thunk??!!


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## mechanic (Apr 1, 2010)

deleted: for the rose colored glasses people.


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

I have an old Lero ??? ....plywood mahogany with thin maple top and back.........mahogany neck with maple board..shim shingles at the neck pocket sides...thinline version..........installed StewMac Alnico 2 humbuckers..........I don't play guitar (just pertend to play bass).........in my opinion, in the right hands..........this is one of my better players..........go figure..........cheers, Gerry


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

nkjanssen said:


> So where are all these Gibson players who look down on Epi players? I hear about that, but I'm not sure I've ever actually seen it. Could it be that some Epi players have persecution complexes?


I know I don't have any complexes about what I own. I'll know I'll never own an R8 Lemonburst or a custom Shop SG, I'll never have the money. I do have an Epi and like it very much,... mind you it's MIJ.


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

The biggest issue here is the labels. Not the labels that are put on the guitar, the invisible labels we've put on ourselves. Instead of considering yourself a gibson player, a fender player, an epiphone player, an agile player, etc just cut the shit and call yourself a guitar player.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Sorry I am still at a loss to the OP and what he hoped to achive. Who cares what others think of the guitar you give them to much power when you actually care what they have to say about it. And no I do not sniff the cork I play and don't ever worry what others think about very little. Unless I am asking for some educated opinions about something I know nothing about, I do know about guitars and as long as it is pleasing to you thats all that matter.
I play guitars with strings and enjoy it and occasionally I might even make some money at it ( but not lately ). So thats my opinion, whats it worth nothing if it doesn't help you and something if it does.ship


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

I had a pair of Epiphones I loved. One was a bolt-on SG 310 with a Dimarzio Air Norton in the neck and a Super Distortion in the bridge. I modded it to have a coil cut on both pickups. It played and sounded amazing for rock. The other was a Epi Dot with Gibson Classic '57s, vintage wiring, etc. Again, killer player, killer sounding axe. I sold both and some other stuff and saved a bit to buy a Gibson Les Paul.

The Les Paul is better in pretty much every way. Better fit-and-finish, better sound, etc. HOWEVER!!!! My 82 Tokai Love Rock out-Les Pauls it all over the place and I paid less than half for the Tokai as I did for the Gibson. The Tokai is my #1 player now and the Gibson is the back-up that sits and collects dust. Even though the Gibson was superior to the two Epis, the Tokai I have now is a better playing and sounding guitar and I wish I had my Epis back 

Similarly, I had a US Deluxe Strat that I loved for a long time. Ended up moving it and now I have a HWY 1 that makes me happy. I don't miss the US Deluxe at all.

I still love my Gibson, I just wish I played it more.


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## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

Just like Harley riders looking down their noses at the poor guy on the Jap scrap. Yeah, they all have two wheels but they just don't quite cut it.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Fader said:


> Just like Harley riders looking down their noses at the poor guy on the Jap scrap. Yeah, they all have two wheels but they just don't quite cut it.


More fun is the comparison of "motor cycle" to a Vespa!


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Play what you got. Save up for what you want. Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.

Sorry for the language. I think it is the only way to say it.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

There are two kinds of cork sniffers. Those who _actually_ know a good wine when they taste one and those who want to _look_ like they do.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

keeperofthegood said:


> Fader said:
> 
> 
> > Just like Harley riders looking down their noses at the poor guy on the Jap scrap. Yeah, they all have two wheels but they just don't quite cut it.
> ...


I'd go for a Vespa! Way cooler in my books.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

keeperofthegood said:


> Some folk have short memories too.
> 
> This forum has a heck of a wide range of people on it. Some folk here are auto mechanics and some are plumbers. Some are medical doctors and lawyers. A fair number of folk here have their own businesses even and there are folk like me who don't work, live off one income, have two kids and too much debt.
> 
> ...


I'll bet the mechanics and plumbers have the best "Journeyman" gear and the lawyers doctors have the prettiest and most expensive. My dad was a mechanic and there's no way he'd scrimp on a tool he relied on to make his living. I feel the same way about my guitars - they are professional grade ....... but no money is wasted on the bling.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

allthumbs56 said:


> I'll bet the mechanics and plumbers have the best "Journeyman" gear and the lawyers doctors have the prettiest and most expensive. My dad was a mechanic and there's no way he'd scrimp on a tool he relied on to make his living. I feel the same way about my guitars - they are professional grade ....... but no money is wasted on the bling.



 I bet the same. My dad was a fitter mechanic and he always got the most solid tools. Of all his tools his favourite was a Craftsman pipe wrench. He had and used that for over 30 years before it failed. The replacement pipe wrench lasted a year. Replaced it once, retired the new one to a drawer and went out and got a wrench from a different maker.

Thing is we all have a mix of different means and different expectations and different interpretations of what gets the job done for us. No ones single view is the only view. My dad, as I mentioned, did get really good tools overall. When he was asked for how to monitor water levels at Beck 1 by a newly graduated PnC he showed the kid how to use two coffee cans...


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

hardasmum said:


> I'd go for a Vespa! Way cooler in my books.



I bet you wouldn't put this many rear view mirrors on a Harley.
Top-Gear-2-301208.jpg 336×500 pixels
piaggio-vespa-150cc-vbc-super.jpg 400×354 pixels
j-clarckson.jpg 468×286 pixels


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## middleagedfart (May 9, 2012)

Hmm Vespa GS150...

Not enough mirrors!


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

I think the more enduring aspect, is a guitar's design. I will tend to like Strat-type/Tele-type designs over,say, a Les Paul. Of course I love what other players can get out of an LP, just not what I can get out of an LP. The same goes for guitar parts. Some will like Floyd Rose-type tremelos, others Bigsby-type. My American made Strat has _*Mexican*_ made pickups. Oh the humanity..........


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

I never understood why people think Mexicans or Asians or Indians are lesser craftsmen than Americans or Canadians or Europeons. Ultimately anyone can make crap. What it really boils down to is quality control on what makes it's way into the retail store.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

How's the saying go? No shit ever smells as nice as your own.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

I auditioned for a band once and after becoming a member we joked that they knew I was the guy as soon as I plugged my 71 SG into my 72 Hiwatt. This before I played a single note.

The irony was not lost on us when I suggested that a much better player wielding a headless Steinberger plugged into a 5150 would not have got the gig.

I am guilty of judging a band based on their gear. In my case the snobbery isn't based on the monetary value of their equipment but what brands I perceive as "cool".

So I guess I sniff some cork.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

hardasmum said:


> I auditioned for a band once and after becoming a member we joked that they knew I was the guy as soon as I plugged my 71 SG into my 72 Hiwatt. This before I played a single note.
> 
> The irony was not lost on us when I suggested that a much better player wielding a headless Steinberger plugged into a 5150 would not have got the gig.
> 
> ...


I don't trust guys whose main axe is a Jaguar or a Jazzmaster.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

Roryfan said:


> hardasmum said:
> 
> 
> > I auditioned for a band once and after becoming a member we joked that they knew I was the guy as soon as I plugged my 71 SG into my 72 Hiwatt. This before I played a single note.
> ...


You don't trust them as people or trust they'll stay in tune?


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

bluzfish said:


> I never understood why people think Mexicans or Asians or Indians are lesser craftsmen than Americans or Canadians or Europeons. Ultimately anyone can make crap. What it really boils down to is quality control on what makes it's way into the retail store.


QC is huge, Gibson's alleged lack of it propelled PRS into the mass market. And if you remember the first VWs that were not manufactured in Wolfsburg, they were crap. The reality is that there is a significant learning curve involved in training a new labour force, especially when you add a language barrier to the mix. 

Another thing worthy of consideration is the quality of the components being used (regardless of the side of the border associated with the pedigree, Fenders have always been made by Mexicans) and this is a huge factor when manufacturing to a price point. Case in point, I went through a serious phase of upgrading Epis but ended up changing my strategy after realizing that by the time I'd swapped out pots, pickups, caps & sometimes nut/tuners I'd spent similar $ to what gently used Gibsons were going for. Some of the Epis were great, others weren't. The major difference is that the US instruments kept their value when it came time to trade/sell whereas I always took a serious bath on the Epis. Nothing against non-US guitars, I just learned that upgrading lower end models usually wasn't worth the expense & aggravation for someone who tends to flip gear routinely. But I will definitely give you $400 for your Callaham & Lollar-equipped MIM strat.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

hardasmum said:


> Roryfan said:
> 
> 
> > hardasmum said:
> ...


Hmmm...Elvis Costello & Kurt Cobain, the answer is a resounding "Yes!"

Adding to the trauma/fuelling my bias is the fact that my first guitar was a 70s Mustang w/ a Mother of Toilet Seat pickguard. I absolutely hated that guitar. Especially because it was the opposite of the black strat I had my heart set on.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

keeperofthegood said:


> How's the saying go? No shit ever smells as nice as your own.


My cousin's ex-wife used to insist that hers came out in hermetically-sealed shrink-wrapped individual packages.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

More on "manufacturing to a price point", Firestone makes tires that perform just fine on 300km/h+ speeds on open wheel race cars and others that can't handle the rigourous demands of a soccer mom. 

Firestone and Ford tire controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please don't label me as a cork sniffer because I have some expensive gear. Maybe it's overkill since I don't earn my living playing music, but an instrument with good tone/playability inspires me to pick it up more often. I've always tried to get the best bang for the buck and have gradually upgraded over the years.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

what really matters is what you do with it

case in point:

[video=youtube;qMf-em-56Mc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMf-em-56Mc[/video]


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Seasick Steve ROCKS!!!

Seasick Steve - Cut My Wings - YouTube


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## big frank (Mar 5, 2006)

I love the Leo Fender quote when someone asked him what he thought about the newly opened Mexico Fender Plant.
He said: "Mexicans have always made our guitars".
My friend has an Epiphone LP 100 that was made in Korea and I still have dreams about that guitar and how great the neck is.
Another observation I'd like to run by you.
Fender isn't owned by Leo, Mr. McCarty and CMI don't run or own Gibson, Gretsch is made in Japan (for the most part), so are what's made with their names on the headstocks really Knock-off guitars?
Does it really matter?
No; not a bit.
My next guitar purchase will probably be a Mexican made Telecaster since I traded my last one for a Godin Kingpin.
I think Bluzfish's posts make the most sense in this thread and I agree with them 100 per cent.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Hey--I remember taking my Iceman to jam, and because it wasn't a made in the USA guitar people looked down on it.
Sure it looks col, but they looked down on it.

But after we jammed, most of them wanted to try it.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

I have owned my share of crappy Strats ,Les Pauls etc.. in the last 45 years or so. I agree that a player should not be judged by his guitar or amp for that matter. Having said that, I will usually buy name brands made in USA just because of resale value, nothing else. I, like a lot others, buy and sell instruments and I find it much easier to sell a well priced brand name instrument than a MIM, Korean etc... I also owned a few of these instruments and they were fine but hard to re-sell and I usually lost out on them. For me its just a business nothing else.


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## Macki (Jun 14, 2010)

I agree with the idea that the guitar is a tool and if it sounds good to you then play it. 

A couple of examples;

- I went to the Montreal guitar show last year and I loved playing all the high end guitars. But what struck me the most was that they did not play/feel much different than any of my guitars. Not saying that I don't want my Potvin Super Bee :0) I just realized, for myself, that if you find a guitar that you are happy with stick with it. 

- my "Made in USA" tele is really poorly finished. Whoever put the clearcoat on the neck did a crappy job (the clear coat runs up onto to some of the frets and has then flaked off). But it plays like a dream and I love the way it sounds.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

This probably has a lot to do with marketing hype by guitar manufacturers, as well as reviews in guitar magazines that are more concerned with maintaining advertising revenue. We take their claims seriously because we assume they know more than us; there could be truth in what they say, but there also might not be. 

A lot of 'legendary' guitars are simply what players had at the time before they had money, and they felt comfortable with that guitar and just continued using it. Jimmy Page's Les Paul was a cast off from Joe Walsh with a broken headstock. David Gilmour's black Strat was a regular Strat and was a road guitar (and has been butchered over the years). Neil Young's 'Old Black' probably wouldn't fetch that much (comparatively) on the vintage market. Lesly West used Juniors because they were cheap. A lot of people considered the Telecaster a cheap piece of junk when it first came out. 

Don't get me wrong, I love vintage guitars. However, remember the feeling when you were a kid with no money and you were just happy to have a guitar, regardless of what it said on the headstock?


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

[video=youtube;x3FixiNdni0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3FixiNdni0[/video]


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

If you have a 3 thousand dollar guitar and 3 dollar hands, you have a 3 dollar guitar - the only upside is the resale and/or your personal enjoyment of owning it.

Sheryl Crow put it best - "it's not having what you want - it's wanting what you've got."


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

I'm a cork sniffer.

I love nice things. I enjoy using nice things and owning nice things.

I don't look down upon those who don't have nice things, nor will I criticize them for owning such things.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

What exactly is the definition of a cork sniffer? Maybe I am one


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

I'm thinking there is a little cork sniffer in each one of us whether it be guitars, boats, skidoos, cars or the latest I phone etc...


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## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

I beat ski-doos up to fast to care, can't afford a boat - fished cod all my friggin' life out of one anyway, so I'll take a much needed rest, and I'd love to fit my phone on my clay pigeon trap and take a crack at it with the old Auto-5. 

I like to think I keep my cork sniffing to wine, rum, and single malt scotch, but I love my custom Canadian Breed Tele...or at least what's left of it. I love my Larrivee acoustic, and I'm REALLY diggin' the Tokai I just got. I would take a fleet of Tokais over the same model Fender or Gibson anyday. That being said, I love these guitars for how they sound feel and play. I'm a cork sniffer too, in that I like fine things - champagne taste on a beer budget - but I don't lord over others or belittle them for not having pro level gear. I think there's a big distinction to be made between a cork sniffer connaiseur vs cork sniffer obnoxious @sshole.;-)


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I never liked red wine until served very expensive stuff, then I kind of understood what it was about and could stand the cheaper stuff at least sometimes. Unfortunately, the guy who introduced me to the good stuff has died, and I have quit drinking, so no actual cork-sniffing for me.

Metaphorically I like to sniff corks. An afternoon at Elderly Music (Lansing Michigan), or The 12th Fret (Toronto), or Folkway (Guelph), can cure the urge after a little indulgence. I usually go home satisfied that I already have good stuff to play. 

The grass is sometimes as green at home. It's a matter of how you trim it.

Peace, Mooh.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Ahahaha!


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

sulphur said:


> Ahahaha!


One of the things I love most about this forum is the number of people with way too much time on their hands!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

If you have people looking down on you because of what you own and/or your views on it, you now know which people to avoid them and their jaded comments.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

I think this is the ultimate in guitar "cork sniffery". Some rich jackass who wouldn't know his asshole from a beautiful guitar, on the cover of a guitar magazine:


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

bagpipe said:


> I think this is the ultimate in guitar "cork sniffery". Some rich jackass who wouldn't know his asshole from a beautiful guitar, on the cover of a guitar magazine:



Just because he is rich and a jackass doesn't mean he doesn't know guitars.

The John McEnroe issue was another story. :banana:


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

bw66 said:


> One of the things I love most about this forum is the number of people with way too much time on their hands!


On a side note. I watched one of this guys movies on Netflix the other night. He is actually that slow now that they sped up the film on the fight scenes. I kid you not. It was one of the worst films I have ever seen


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> On a side note. I watched one of this guys movies on Netflix the other night. He is actually that slow now that they sped up the film on the fight scenes. I kid you not. It was one of the worst films I have ever seen


Careful there Scott; he's only a little older than we are!


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Steadfastly said:


> Careful there Scott; he's only a little older than we are!


Oh man, it was pathetic. The only reason I watched the whole thing was that the fight scenes were actually hilarious.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Oh man, it was pathetic. The only reason I watched the whole thing was that the fight scenes were actually hilarious.


[video=youtube;bQ1N3q4Vgkg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ1N3q4Vgkg[/video]


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

bagpipe said:


> I think this is the ultimate in guitar "cork sniffery". Some rich jackass who wouldn't know his asshole from a beautiful guitar, on the cover of a guitar magazine:


 He's rich yes, but not many jackasses would donate the proceeds of the sale of his collection (some of them very pretty indeed) to humanitarian causes.

"October 12, 2011
NEW YORK, N.Y.—A collection of American vintage guitars owned by actor Richard Gere has fetched nearly $1 million at auction in New York City.
Tuesday’s sale of 110 guitars and amplifiers at Christie’s auction house included brands such as C.F. Martin, Gibson, Fender and Gretsch and guitars once owned by blues guitarist Albert King and reggae musician Peter Tosh.
The top sale went to a 1960 solid-body Les Paul electric guitar by Gibson, which sold for more than $98,000.
Gere says he’s parting with the instruments to support global humanitarian causes. Christie’s says the Pretty Woman star studied trumpet and is a self-taught pianist and guitarist."


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Sneaky said:


> Just because he is rich and a jackass doesn't mean he doesn't know guitars.
> 
> The John McEnroe issue was another story. :banana:


He has his own cover


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Alright, maybe I shouldn't have picked on Richard Gere, the Mother Theresa of guitar players!

My point was that this Guitar Afficianado bullshit magazine is the ultimate in cork sniffery. All these rich guys with their 1920s Martins etc. The general attitude seems to be "Well, Gibson Les Pauls are okay, but unless its a 1959 then its not worth discussing".

They're so out of touch with common people that its laughable.

(And, for the record, I fuckin hate Richard Gere anyway!)



hardasmum said:


> He's rich yes, but not many jackasses would donate the proceeds of the sale of his collection (some of them very pretty indeed) to humanitarian causes.
> 
> "October 12, 2011
> NEW YORK, N.Y.—A collection of American vintage guitars owned by actor Richard Gere has fetched nearly $1 million at auction in New York City.
> ...


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

From The Urban Dictionary



> A derogatory term used to describe a person that tends to overanalyze physical properties that may not even be relevant.
> 
> These people seem to split hairs on details and are usually just percieved as windbags who just like to hear themselves speak.
> 
> ...


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

Point noted. 

I leafed through that magazine once and had a similar feeling.

As for Mr. Gere I have no feelings for him either way. 



bagpipe said:


> Alright, maybe I shouldn't have picked on Richard Gere, the Mother Theresa of guitar players!
> 
> My point was that this Guitar Afficianado bullshit magazine is the ultimate in cork sniffery. All these rich guys with their 1920s Martins etc. The general attitude seems to be "Well, Gibson Les Pauls are okay, but unless its a 1959 then its not worth discussing".
> 
> ...


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> From The Urban Dictionary
> 
> 
> > A derogatory term used to describe a person that tends to overanalyze physical properties that may not even be relevant.
> ...


At the risk of looking like a bit of a "cork sniffer" myself - when a true wine connoisseur "sniffs" the cork (s)he is actually just touching it to their lips to make sure that it is moist - meaning that the wine has been properly stored. So if someone _actually_ sniffs a cork, they are merely exposing themselves as a poser.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

bw66 said:


> At the risk of looking like a bit of a "cork sniffer" myself - when a true wine connoisseur "sniffs" the cork (s)he is actually just touching it to their lips to make sure that it is moist - meaning that the wine has been properly stored. So if someone _actually_ sniffs a cork, they are merely exposing themselves as a poser.


Some more information on the topic (from the internet):

"I’ve been a winemaker for many years and have a degree in Enology and Viticulture, and can tell you smelling a wine cork only makes you look like you learned about wine from watching TV sitcoms. You can’t tell anything from smelling a cork, and “corked” wine doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the cork.
The proper thing to do with a cork a waiter hands you is to feel it, first to make sure it was stored on it’s side; is it hard, soft, wet, dry, cold, warm, spongey, flexible?
All else should be gathered from the first pour."{​
Cheers

Dave


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

mike_oxbig said:


> The biggest issue here is the labels. Not the labels that are put on the guitar, the invisible labels we've put on ourselves. Instead of considering yourself a gibson player, a fender player, an epiphone player, an agile player, etc just cut the shit and call yourself a guitar player.


this is where i look at you and say
"what are you running from man"
and you respond with
"i dont know, i guess maybe im just running from myself"


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

bagpipe said:


> (And, for the record, I fuckin hate Richard Gere anyway!)


...really? he has nothing but nice things to say about you.


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

Is a cheap bum, I like Guitar Aficionado. It shows beautiful pictures of guitars. What more would a guitar lover want? Oh, less pages about watches and wine would be nice.


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