# Please school me on resonators



## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Hello All

I have decided that, finally, after 20 years of lusting after one- that acoustically I am going to go the resonator route to add to my range of playing.

Disclaimer:
I don't know what I don't know. And yes- I will go out and play a few to see what resonates - excuse the pun- best with me.
But here are the limitations I have in my search currently- to give some guidance for your comments.

I am, acoustically speaking, a finger picker or aspiring to be a better one
I love Knopfler type music, though of course there is much much more
My budget is nothing over 1500 cdn currently (Unless a mind-bowing guitar smacks me right in the face)
I like to amplify but it is not a deal breaker
The Gretsch range doesn't inspire the hell out of me- but as I said- School me, because I am an ignoramus here

What are your thoughts on:

Full metal vs wood bodies
Republic
Michael Messer
Epiphone Dobro
Gretsch
Other?

Of course I want a National or even a Mule but I have just bought a Motorcycle, done a 2800 dollar service on a vehicle, paid for a trip that got canceled due to Omicron (waiting for refund) and bought the Lady in my life some interesting (to her) baubles.

I would appreciate any input.
(Oh and please buy the 2 Traynor amps I have for sale  )

Sincerely
Markus


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Biscuit Bridge
Spyder Bridge
Single Cone
Tri Cone
Brass Body
Steel Body
Wood Body

They are all different.

I have the Gretsch Honey Dipper. It's a brass body biscuit so more raw sounding than their other one ( not sure of the name ) which has a spyder bridge and the Fishman Nashville pickup and might be steel body. Brass is a warmer sound.

Set up is tricky on the biscuit bridge - break angle is important and you can't just go hackin into the saddle to lower it. Lower it too much and you lose volume because it needs pressure on the cone. I've decided to just live with the action which isn't that bad rather than mess with it. I think you can play with the set angle because the neck is attached to a wood bar inside the body which is shimmed. So you could change the set to improve action and keep the proper break angle.

A spyder bridge has its own and very different bag of tricks for set up.

The Honey Dipper has a throaty kind of midrange with lots of over tones which I like. It's also a nice guitar for fit and finish.

I've played some Nationals that sounded great but I don't remember which models they were.

Got it into my head that I wanted a National so was checking into them. They are scarce now, wait time for a builds is 1 year and the price keeps increasing.

I found a National Raw Steel biscuit for a good price new and figured it's now or never. Went to try it last week and didn't buy it. I didn't hear 3 grand in that guitar and I like the sound of my Gretsch better.

The Gretsch plays better than National that I tried and I was talking to them about setup and they said they'd have to look at the National to see if it could come down - it was high but the determining factor was whether there would be enough break angle left. 

They say that the Fishman Nashville pickup is good but I've kinda come to the conclusion that the only way is to mic a reso and all the pickups suck. I have the National Slimline pickup which I'm going to install with tone and vol pots over Christmas but the way the instrument works I think the only way is to yard a microphone in front of the cone.

There's a you tub where some guy swaps a National cone into a Honey Dipper and concludes that there ain't much difference and says it comes down to personal preferance.

This guy seems to use the Gretsch all the time and these clips are pretty much what my guitar sounds like to me except he's a better player.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

I've played almost exclusively the dobro I bought new when I was 17. It's 49 years old now. Spider cone, wood (maple plywood I think) body. It has been a very versatile and rewarding instrument. Sounds like this fingerpicked:






and this with slide:


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Thanks Wardo and also Doug Gifford

Gives me a starting point.
I really appreciate the time you both put into responses

Markus


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

I'm impressed Doug!

Pretty mellow- rounder sounding than I would have expected


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

I have a National NRP Steel 12 Fret, which I love. I had it in my head that I wanted the 14-Fret Style 0 like Knopfler and so when I found one, I bought it. After having both for a while, I ended up preferring the sound of the 12-Fret steel, so the Style 0 is now on consignment at the 12 Fret. I should say that both sound fantastic and I get small moments where I want to get the Style 0 back, but I think one biscuit reso is enough for me and my ears preferred the one I kept. Still, they both were glorious (argh!)

Anyway, if you can, make an appointment to go try some at the 12th Fret on Danforth. They have some Nationals in stock (including mine lol) and they have Messers, which are damn good resonators and sound great. For the money, I’d say the Messers are tough to beat. I played one head-to-head with my NRP and the NRP won, but it’s triple the money.

12th Fret also know how to set up a resonator properly and that is important. You might want to call and ask them what they have on hand before you make the trip.

I had a wood-body biscuit (National Estralita) which also sounded great, but the metal body has a bit more of that reverby sound that I just like a bit more, so I ended up trading it in. The warm sound of the wood body was its own thing and pretty cool. If I get another reso, it will likely be a tricone. I think they sound fantastic.

here’s my NRP


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

jdto said:


> ... Style 0 is now on consignment .........


I was thinking about making an offer on that one a few weeks ago ... lol


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Wardo said:


> I was thinking about making an offer on that one a few weeks ago ... lol


I should have put it up here lol


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

jdto said:


> I should have put it up here lol


Nice looking guitar but I was thinking I might have to change my name to Palm Beach Slim to play that one .. lol


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

jdto said:


> I have a National NRP Steel 12 Fret, which I love. I had it in my head that I wanted the 14-Fret Style 0 like Knopfler and so when I found one, I bought it. After having both for a while, I ended up preferring the sound of the 12-Fret steel, so the Style 0 is now on consignment at the 12 Fret. I should say that both sound fantastic and I get small moments where I want to get the Style 0 back, but I think one biscuit reso is enough for me and my ears preferred the one I kept. Still, they both were glorious (argh!)
> 
> Anyway, if you can, make an appointment to go try some at the 12th Fret on Danforth. They have some Nationals in stock (including mine lol) and they have Messers, which are damn good resonators and sound great. For the money, I’d say the Messers are tough to beat. I played one head-to-head with my NRP and the NRP won, but it’s triple the money.
> 
> ...



Thanks JDTO
I think I will be calling them in the morning
The Nationals are too expensive for me right now. There was an NRP for 2K in Toronto a while back and like a fool I passed up on it!

Beauty of a guitar you have!!


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Seems that stores don't want to move of price now because they have trouble getting stock.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Wardo said:


> Nice looking guitar but I was thinking I might have to change my name to Palm Beach Slim to play that one .. lol


You’d need to get a bowling shirt, straw fedora and wraparound glasses.
It is a beauty of a guitar.










Markus 1 said:


> Thanks JDTO
> I think I will be calling them in the morning
> The Nationals are too expensive for me right now. There was an NRP for 2K in Toronto a while back and like a fool I passed up on it!
> 
> Beauty of a guitar you have!!


Thanks. It’s a sweet one and, with the rubbed nickel finish, not as prone to needing polishing as the bright mirror finish ones. An NRP for 2k is a damn good price! Definitely worth seeing what they have at the 12th Fret and also Folkway in Waterloo. They both often have more stock than what is on their websites.


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

jdto said:


> You’d need to get a bowling shirt, straw fedora and wraparound glasses.
> It is a beauty of a guitar.
> View attachment 393768
> 
> ...



Yeah I was an idjit for not just buying it then and there
I will look at folkway too- thanks


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

jdto said:


> You’d need to get a bowling shirt, straw fedora and wraparound glasses.
> It is a beauty of a guitar.


Yeah but my songs are like:

I been a worker been a dealer sometimes a bum. 
I been busted and disgusted I been down.
Seen so much of the bottom. 
Wonderin why I still hangin round.

A bowling shirt ain’t gonna fix that … lol

Nice guitar though and looks better in your pic than it does on store site.


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## Hell Hound (Oct 31, 2015)

I owned a few Republic reso's - HWY 61 brass and steel. They are chinese made and sold from Texas. The brass had a better sound. Just rang better. I believe covid has given them stocking problems.
However, you can go right to the source if you want. I've never ordered from the chinese maker but reviews are decent.









Cutaway Golden Electric Parlour Resonator Guitar TRG10BCE – Aiersi Brand Guitar & Ukulele Offical Website- Just for Professional







www.aiersiguitar.com





Here is another place but looks like they are made from the same chinese plant.









The Royall Resonator Co. Royall Resonator guitars, as close to perfect as we can make ’em. -


Affordable vintage and modern style resonator guitars made by perfectionist resonator nuts.




royallguitars.com





I think I saw a Royall reso for sale on kijiji recently which is how I found out about them.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

The Regal steel body biscuit has been sold to a friend. It was great but I just wasn't using it much. The Dobro is my favourite, wood body, spider, 12 frets to the body, usually tuned a semi-tone low, and gobs of tone. The neck's a little narrow, but it's tolerable. The uke is a limited value thing, but the old time bluesiness cannot be denied especially when tuned with a low G. The Gold Tone bass is the loudest acoustic bass I know, lots of clarity, and records well. That resonator tone works for a very wide register. I prefer the woodiness, but if I had the coin I might reinvest in a steel body.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

It depends what style of music you’re looking to play as well. The biscuit bridge has a very “plucky” tone with much less sustain. Almost like a banjo. The spider bridge is the one with the “singing” sustain and to my ears is a much more musical tone.

Like I said, a lot of it depends on what you’ll be playing on it. There’s a certain type of playing where you want those percussive, short notes from a biscuit and other times, you want the sustain of a spider.


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Hell Hound said:


> I owned a few Republic reso's - HWY 61 brass and steel. They are chinese made and sold from Texas. The brass had a better sound. Just rang better. I believe covid has given them stocking problems.
> However, you can go right to the source if you want. I've never ordered from the chinese maker but reviews are decent.
> 
> 
> ...



I see a Republic for sale for about 600 in Ottawa area and wondering if it's worth the risk


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

2manyGuitars said:


> It depends what style of music you’re looking to play as well. The biscuit bridge has a very “plucky” tone with much less sustain. Almost like a banjo. The spider bridge is the one with the “singing” sustain and to my ears is a much more musical tone.
> 
> Like I said, a lot of it depends on what you’ll be playing on it. There’s a certain type of playing where you want those percussive, short notes from a biscuit and other times, you want the sustain of a spider.



That's the conundrum. I prefer the more sustained tone of a spider bridge I believe. But I need to get off the couch and go play some of em


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

My favourite resonator player.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Markus 1 said:


> I'm impressed Doug!
> 
> Pretty mellow- rounder sounding than I would have expected


Thank you! As I said, it's a very versatile guitar. Played closer to the bridge than I'm doing here it's much brighter and can sound almost crunchy if you find the spot. The harmonics are amazing.


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## Hell Hound (Oct 31, 2015)

Markus 1 said:


> I see a Republic for sale for about 600 in Ottawa area and wondering if it's worth the risk


I suppose always a risk without playing first. But the ones I played were good guitars. I played the hell out of my brass HWY 61. Probably should have kept it.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

I have a line on a 2012 National NRP 12 fret wood body. This is unfamiliar territory for me. Assuming it’s in good shape, what’s the ballpark for something like that?


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Markus 1 said:


> I see a Republic for sale for about 600 in Ottawa area and wondering if it's worth the risk


That’s a tough call; it could be really good or it could be a complete disaster.

I got my Gretsch reso delivered from L&M and as it turned out I like the guitar.

However, after my recent experience with the National that I mentioned earlier and which I was almost going to tell them just ship the damn thing because I don’t feel like driving all that distance to get it. I’m really glad I did go and check it out because I didn’t like that guitar. I’ve kind of concluded that when it comes to resonators I’d want to try them first.


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Thanks Wardo.
Yes and with the obvious learning curve I will enter, I would really want to like it a lot first


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds


Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




www.kijiji.ca





To continue the conversation...
Does anyone know anything about these?

Lady selling it claims it is hand made.... I seriously doubt that!!
Anyway- seems to be an American company- likely has their stuff made off shore. I tried to contact them but the message came back "undeliverable"


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Definitely made overseas. There is some limited information on the Michael Messer forum about them. I’d want to play it first.


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

jdto said:


> Definitely made overseas. There is some limited information on the Michael Messer forum about them. I’d want to play it first.



Agreed. And the lady selling it is giving me sketchy info. Either quotes from their defunct website or 2-word responses


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

You might want to think twice about whether you get a 12 or 14 fret based on what you prefer and not what other folks tell you. To me, it's more a question of playability/versatility in the upper register.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Swervin55 said:


> You might want to think twice about whether you get a 12 or 14 fret based on what you prefer and not what other folks tell you. To me, it's more a question of playability/versatility in the upper register.


Do you find you get up there a lot on a resonator? I had both and found that I rarely went above 12, but when I did I could just stretch it with the slide. I do see where the 14 fret would be useful for capo playing and stuff.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

jdto said:


> Do you find you get up there a lot on a resonator?


Not usually.


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

jdto said:


> Do you find you get up there a lot on a resonator? I had both and found that I rarely went above 12, but when I did I could just stretch it with the slide. I do see where the 14 fret would be useful for capo playing and stuff.


I do find that having the octave back from the heel is an advantage.


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Swervin55 said:


> You might want to think twice about whether you get a 12 or 14 fret based on what you prefer and not what other folks tell you. To me, it's more a question of playability/versatility in the upper register.



I do not play much in the upper register. My slide playing is non-existent currently - and I want to get into it with a resonator- so I can't say anything from experience. 
But my partner has a 12 fret parlour and while I like it very much, my Taylor 14 fret feels more like home to me.
So I think I would look at a Messer 14 fret option

BTW- 12th Fret (store) website mentions only curbside and I think business by appointment. Can one not get into the store and go browse? I'd hate to drive all the way there for nothing


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Markus 1 said:


> I do not play much in the upper register. My slide playing is non-existent currently - and I want to get into it with a resonator- so I can't say anything from experience.
> But my partner has a 12 fret parlour and while I like it very much, my Taylor 14 fret feels more like home to me.
> So I think I would look at a Messer 14 fret option
> 
> BTW- 12th Fret (store) website mentions only curbside and I think business by appointment. Can one not get into the store and go browse? I'd hate to drive all the way there for nothing


They were only doing curbside and recently opened up to setting appointments to shop. With the latest return to "Modified Phase 2", they're back to curbside only, so I'd definitely suggest setting an appointment saying you're looking for a resonator and would like to try some before you go, once it becomes available again.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

And as to the 12 vs 14 fret thing, definitely try them out. I did a head-to-head of the National NRPs when I bought mine and ended up preferring the sound of the 12-fretter. They have a little room at the back of the 12th Fret where I sat and just played them one after the other for a good 30 minutes and, even though my online research and thought processes had me leaning 14, I ended up with 12.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I'm very happy with the 12 fret non-cutaway Dobro, its tone is what drew me too it (and it feels so compact), but if I was looking at another resonator I'd want more upper fret access, even a cutaway. More fret access on lots of instruments was an issue for me when I played more _for hire_ or _one off_ sessions. Versatility was important, and I didn't like carrying more than one of each kind of guitar to a session unless it was stipulated.


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

OK Update...........

There is a National Delphi Dlx available for around $2,200. Not sure of case
In VG condition

What do I do? Good value?

Markus


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I think I saw something on thier site a few days ago about appoinments being on hold for now.


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Wardo said:


> I think I saw something on thier site a few days ago about appoinments being on hold for now.


Bummer
Thx!


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Markus 1 said:


> Bummer
> Thx!


Check to make sure but pretty sure I saw that and I was thinkin at the time those boys have been more than a bit skittish about the lucky 19 since it started.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Not sure if I mentioned it already but I got this Gold Tone / Paul Beard. Apparently Beard's shop does the setup on them. It was good out of the box and I just had to adjust the TR a bit. This one is a shallow 2" body with a pickup but it is loud unplugged and the cone sounds good. They make a none electric deep body version of this guitar plus other models. Reason I mention it is that I'd like to hear what the deep body version sounds like if I was looking for a none electric biscuit reso. Got this from L7M and the 30 days ain't up yet but looks like I'm keeping. It takes awhile to find the little things that are wrong so L7M is good for that with their return policy. The 12th Fret is 48 hours or something so buying on line is risky need to get in there and spend a good hour or two like JD was saying.

Another thing too is that you might want to try the biscuit, spyder and tri-cone as they are all different.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Markus 1 said:


> OK Update...........
> 
> There is a National Delphi Dlx available for around $2,200. Not sure of case
> In VG condition
> ...


That’s an older model from National and I’ve heard good things about them, but also some less glowing reviews. If memory serves (which it doesn’t always do) they are a thicker gauge metal than the newer ones. And you’ll also notice they have the flat back, as opposed to the domed back like vintage and the more recent Nationals do. I’ve read claims that the flat back and thicker steel impart more bass, but I can’t confirm as I haven’t had the chance to play one.


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

jdto said:


> That’s an older model from National and I’ve heard good things about them, but also some less glowing reviews. If memory serves (which it doesn’t always do) they are a thicker gauge metal than the newer ones. And you’ll also notice they have the flat back, as opposed to the domed back like vintage and the more recent Nationals do. I’ve read claims that the flat back and thicker steel impart more bass, but I can’t confirm as I haven’t had the chance to play one.



Good info thanks jdto


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Wardo said:


> Not sure if I mentioned it already but I got this Gold Tone / Paul Beard. Apparently Beard's shop does the setup on them. It was good out of the box and I just had to adjust the TR a bit. This one is a shallow 2" body with a pickup but it is loud unplugged and the cone sounds good. They make a none electric deep body version of this guitar plus other models. Reason I mention it is that I'd like to hear what the deep body version sounds like if I was looking for a none electric biscuit reso. Got this from L7M and the 30 days ain't up yet but looks like I'm keeping. It takes awhile to find the little things that are wrong so L7M is good for that with their return policy. The 12th Fret is 48 hours or something so buying on line is risky need to get in there and spend a good hour or two like JD was saying.
> 
> Another thing too is that you might want to try the biscuit, spyder and tri-cone as they are all different.
> 
> View attachment 398768



Thanks Wardo

Thus far I have only ever played the biscuit styles. So I have a sense that until I have tried the spider in real life- I would not really be sure of my choices. I believe the spider has more sistain and on videos it seems more harmonically rich- almost piano-like, which I find really appealing


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## Relic (Mar 19, 2011)

I have a Johnson (no longer in business I believe) tri-cone resonator that I bought in 2005. It's basically a copy of a National tri-cone. I've never played a National so can't compare, but I've been quite happy with it. I did upgrade the saddle, the cones themselves, and installed mushroom posts. 

I had it setup for slide and use medium-gauge strings on it. String changes are a bit fussy, and I usually have to fiddle with the cones after a string change to get rid of extraneous vibrations/buzzes, but I've got used to the fiddling. The sound is fabulous and it always gets a big reaction when I haul it out for a play around the campfire or what have you.

I have played a few dobro style guitars (large single cone), both wood and metal-bodied, and personally I prefer the tri-cone sound.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Relic said:


> I have a Johnson (no longer in business I believe) tri-cone resonator that I bought in 2005. It's basically a copy of a National tri-cone. I've never played a National so can't compare, but I've been quite happy with it. I did upgrade the saddle, the cones themselves, and installed mushroom posts.
> 
> I had it setup for slide and use medium-gauge strings on it. String changes are a bit fussy, and I usually have to fiddle with the cones after a string change to get rid of extraneous vibrations/buzzes, but I've got used to the fiddling. The sound is fabulous and it always gets a big reaction when I haul it out for a play around the campfire or what have you.
> 
> I have played a few dobro style guitars (large single cone), both wood and metal-bodied, and personally I prefer the tri-cone sound.


That’s a beauty! I’m keen on getting my hands on a brass/German silver tricone one of these days. I think it would make a nice pairing with my NRP Steel biscuit bridge. Of course, a wood-body spider would complete the trifecta. One of these days…


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## Relic (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks man! I'm very happy with it. I would like a National one day, and yeah a woody dobro too. I need a bigger cave...


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Relic said:


> String changes are a bit fussy, and I usually have to fiddle with the cones after a string change to get rid of extraneous vibrations/buzzes, but I've got used to the fiddling.


Nice guitar! In case you aren't doing so, change the strings one string at a time. If you can help it, don't ever take them all off unless you really enjoy shoving the cones around.


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## Relic (Mar 19, 2011)

Hey thanks. That's a good tip, however I usually (with all guitars) take the opportunity to clean, polish, oil fretboard when changing strings. One at a time makes that tricky.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Relic said:


> Hey thanks. That's a good tip, however I usually (with all guitars) take the opportunity to clean, polish, oil fretboard when changing strings. One at a time makes that tricky.


That's a quintenniel job for me. All the other times it's one string at a time.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I think with biscuit resonators you pretty much have to do them one at a time or the intonation might go out if the cone moves.

When I took mine apart I measured the bridge to nut distance on the E and e with a yard stick. When I put it back together I put two strings on first and not very tight then moved the cone around to line up with the measurements then tightened the two strings to hold it while I put the others on.


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