# Brackets in Chord Name?



## nwoof2012 (Jun 28, 2019)

Recently, I’ve come across chord names that have brackets in them (ex. C(_b_5)), but I’m unsure what it means. Does anyone know the function of brackets in the construction of a chord?

Ps. I don’t recommend playing the example chord outside of experimental music or deathcore.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

It's for clarity. In the case of C(b5) it's so you don't think the chord is Cb, which would make no sense but might cost you a bit of processing time and hence a missed chord.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Yeah in that case it’s referring to a C with a flat fifth as opposed to a C flat with a fifth. The flat fifths aren’t common but sharp fifths I frequently see.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

JBFairthorne said:


> Yeah in that case it’s referring to a C with a flat fifth as opposed to a C flat with a fifth. The flat fifths aren’t common but sharp fifths I frequently see.


As you can imagine, lots of alternations are more common in jazz, including b5. In a minor key, the ii chord is a m7b5. The dominant chord can be a 7b5, too.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Doug Gifford said:


> It's for clarity. In the case of C(b5) it's so you don't think the chord is Cb, which would make no sense but might cost you a bit of processing time and hence a missed chord.


Cb makes sense in certain keys.
it is the same as a B chord.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

JBFairthorne said:


> Yeah in that case it’s referring to a C with a flat fifth as opposed to a C flat with a fifth. The flat fifths aren’t common but sharp fifths I frequently see.


You’d never see a sharp 5th. You’d see a flat 6th. Which is a Very ominous chord. 

The b5 refers to the tritone. In jazz the two most important notes don’t include then tonic oddly enough. They're the 3rd and 7th. In a dominant 7 chord they 3rd and 7th can also be the 7th and 3rd of the “Tritone substitution”. 

Ex: 
C7 - E & Bb are the 3 & b7

Gb7 - Bb & E are the b7 & 3

Bossa nova has excellent examples of tritone substitutions.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

sambonee said:


> You’d never see a sharp 5th. You’d see a flat 6th. Which is a Very ominous chord.
> 
> The b5 refers to the tritone.


A sharp 5 is quite common. It’s also known as an augmented chord. Flat 6 is rarely seen, though you will often see a flat 13, which is the same scale degree in an extended chord. It’s often indicated in brackets paired with an altered 9.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

JBFairthorne said:


> Yeah in that case it’s referring to a C with a flat fifth as opposed to a C flat with a fifth. The flat fifths aren’t common but sharp fifths I frequently see.





sambonee said:


> You’d never see a sharp 5th. You’d see a flat 6th.





Merlin said:


> A sharp 5 is quite common. It’s also known as an augmented chord. Flat 6 is rarely seen


Are we running out of permutations/options yet? 

Sorry...Couldn't resist. Warped sense of humour here.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

Merlin said:


> A sharp 5 is quite common. It’s also known as an augmented chord. Flat 6 is rarely seen, though you will often see a flat 13, which is the same scale degree in an extended chord. It’s often indicated in brackets paired with an altered 9.


Learn something new everyday. What would be an example of a #5? Thanks.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

The answer to this and to many many chord notation questions is in the book "Standardized Chord Symbol Notation" by Carl Brandt and Clinton Roemer. Long out of print. But here's a scan of a photocopy in pdf. Enjoy! http://jazzagejazz.ca/resources/roehmer & brandt scan.pdf


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Doug Gifford said:


> The answer to this and to many many chord notation questions is in the book "Standardized Chord Symbol Notation" by Carl Brandt and Clinton Roemer. Long out of print. But here's a scan of a photocopy in pdf. Enjoy! http://jazzagejazz.ca/resources/roehmer & brandt scan.pdf


Wow, 23 pages of rules about chords. Not chord charts or shapes or tabs...rules. Impressive. Thanks for sharing!


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

sambonee said:


> You’d never see a sharp 5th. You’d see a flat 6th. Which is a Very ominous chord.
> 
> The b5 refers to the tritone. In jazz the two most important notes don’t include then tonic oddly enough. They're the 3rd and 7th. In a dominant 7 chord they 3rd and 7th can also be the 7th and 3rd of the “Tritone substitution”.
> 
> ...


Quoted because the importance of the 3rd and the 7th can't be stressed enough. That's headed for Drop 2 territory.

On the topic of the book, great reference. From my experience there can sometimes be a big difference in chord descriptions depending on who's teaching and where it's coming from. It was standardized very well in the MacEwan Jazz, or contemporary as they called it, music program. I think some schools adopt different preferences. Point is to be talking the same language and knowing what the different forms mean in the situation you're in. For the stuff I play this isn't particularily necessary, talking from a typical Rock player perspective, but if you want to hang with the Vai's and Petrucci's, it could be a small benefit.


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## nwoof2012 (Jun 28, 2019)

I previously would’ve known what Cmaj_b_7 is, but not C(_b_7). Thanks everyone for your help!

Notes in Cmaj_b_7:
C E G Bb (it’s also C7)

Notes in C(_b_5):
C E F# (that would clearly only work in modern metal)


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Just a quick note that the b5, for clarity, is Gb and not F#. Same note but one is an Augmented 4th (F#) and one is a flat 5 (Gb), relative to the CMaj chord.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Dorian2 said:


> Just a quick note that the b5, for clarity, is Gb and not F#. Same note but one is an Augmented 4th (F#) and one is a flat 5 (Gb), relative to the CMaj chord.


I actually like the idea of using the two-three names for each note in the context of relativity.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

cboutilier said:


> I actually like the idea of using the two-three names for each note in the context of relativity.


I'm not familiar with the two-three name terminology. Can you explain? This is a perfect example of the whole chord/theory difficulty in music a lot of the time. There's probably 10 different variations of names for the same thing lol.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Dorian2 said:


> I'm not familiar with the two-three name terminology. Can you explain? This is a perfect example of the whole chord/theory difficulty in music a lot of the time. There's probably 10 different variations of names for the same thing lol.


C# and Db are the same note. 

Essentially every note is itself, the sharp of the note before it, or the flat of the one after it.


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## nwoof2012 (Jun 28, 2019)

cboutilier said:


> C# and Db are the same note.
> 
> Essentially every note is itself, the sharp of the note before it, or the flat of the one after it.


I’m aware of that, however a beginner musician might not be.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

nwoof2012 said:


> I’m aware of that, however a beginner musician might not be.


Maybe everybody needs to learn a little piano. It's hard to not know that if you are sitting in front of the keyboard.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

cboutilier said:


> C# and Db are the same note.
> 
> Essentially every note is itself, the sharp of the note before it, or the flat of the one after it.


OK. Never heard it called 2-3 is all. I think that's been established earlier in the thread though. Terminology difference but we're talking the same language now. A good way of getting it across is that there is 1 frequency or tone and there are 2 possible note names for that frequency, depending on key. But that's too much verbal diarrhea lol


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

Dorian2 said:


> OK. Never heard it called 2-3 is all. I think that's been established earlier in the thread though. Terminology difference but we're talking the same language now. A good way of getting it across is that there is 1 frequency or tone and there are 2 possible note names for that frequency, depending on key. But that's too much verbal diarrhea lol


Read “2-3” as “two or three” or “two to three”, and it makes more sense.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

JazzyT said:


> Maybe everybody needs to learn a little piano. It's hard to not know that if you are sitting in front of the keyboard.


Sometimes I neglect the fact that I started on Piano at an early age. I switched to guitar when I was 14, but everything I learned previously is pure gold. I still picture a staff of the Treble clef when I'm reciting chord notes to whoever wants to hear them. It's a hella lot easier than the fretboard when it comes to linear thinking.


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