# Question about Moving Chords



## Geeetar (Oct 25, 2015)

Im a total theory noob, please cut me some slack!

I have two questions about moving chords up and down the neck. 

Lets take a D7 for example and say I move it up to the 6th string fifth fret. 

The shape would now be 000545.

Does the D7 adopt the root note on the low E fifth string becoming an A7? Or how does that whole system work.


Thanks,
Ravi


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

If I'm understanding you correctly, that would become an F7 triad. An open A played with it is the major 3rd of it. I'm no theorist either but that's how I'd understand it. I think it'd be written as "A/F7" or something to that effect. It'd take on a more unresolved timbre because of the A but it'd still be an F7.


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

I am also probably wrong and somebody with a lot more knowledge than I will be along with the correct answer shortly.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

333545 would make an F7.


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

cboutilier said:


> 333545 would make an F7.


Only in drop D


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

Standard tuning would be like a sus2 type thing.


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## Geeetar (Oct 25, 2015)

garrettdavis275 said:


> If I'm understanding you correctly, that would become an F7 triad. An open A played with it is the major 3rd of it. I'm no theorist either but that's how I'd understand it. I think it'd be written as "A/F7" or something to that effect. It'd take on a more unresolved timbre because of the A but it'd still be an F7.



Okay.

Really just trying to understand what im playing. It's a great chord for blues when on top of the a minor pentatonic scale.

Just trying to understand the technical name behind it.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

garrettdavis275 said:


> Only in drop D


My bad. I meant xx3454


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Geeetar said:


> Im a total theory noob, please cut me some slack!
> 
> I have two questions about moving chords up and down the neck.
> 
> ...


If you are just strumming the first 3 strings, it is an F7. If you are strumming all 6, it's jazz...


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

Geeetar said:


> Okay.
> 
> Really just trying to understand what im playing. It's a great chord for blues when on top of the a minor pentatonic scale.
> 
> Just trying to understand the technical name behind it.


Ohhhhh okay yup that makes sense. So the reason that works for you is that you're subbing literally the "blue note" from the A minor pent scale into an A minor type of chord shape. So that's an E flat, or your flat 5th ("the devil's note") for the key you're playing in. Very moody. Takes you right to the crossroads. Metal bands add distortion and make careers out of that note. But ya, that makes sense. In that case I'd call that an "A minor flat 5". And I'm a complete hack so that's probably not right. But it's in the ballpark of being right.


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## Geeetar (Oct 25, 2015)

garrettdavis275 said:


> Ohhhhh okay yup that makes sense. So the reason that works for you is that you're subbing literally the "blue note" from the A minor pent scale into an A minor type of chord shape. So that's an E flat, or your flat 5th ("the devil's note") for the key you're playing in. Very moody. Takes you right to the crossroads. Metal bands add distortion and make careers out of that note. But ya, that makes sense. In that case I'd call that an "A minor flat 5". And I'm a complete hack so that's probably not right. But it's in the ballpark of being right.



Makes sense. Thanks!


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

No problem! Anything past that and I'm way outta my league lol. Glad to help.


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

In your example, D7 moved to 0003545 would become F7.

See this link to experiment...

Where it becomes more complicated is that the name of the chord depends on the note that you consider the root. So the same chord position can have several different names.


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

pattste said:


> In your example, D7 moved to 003545 would become F7.
> 
> See this link to experiment...
> 
> Where it becomes more complicated is that the name of the chord depends on the note that you consider the root. So the same chord position can have several different names.


Could this also be Adim/F ?


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I thought I knew what a D7 (standard tuning) was but now I'm completely confused. I thought off the 4th string, xx0212, 5th string x57575, 6th string 10 12 10 11 10 10. In order to be a D7 the first note struck would absolutely have to be a D, any other root would be a slash chord, most often an inversion.


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

Swervin55 said:


> Could this also be Adim/F ?


Yes.



JBFairthorne said:


> I thought I knew what a D7 (standard tuning) was but now I'm completely confused. I thought off the 4th string, xx0212, 5th string x57575, 6th string 10 12 10 11 10 10. In order to be a D7 the first note struck would absolutely have to be a D, any other root would be a slash chord, most often an inversion.


My mistake, I should have said xx3545 (not 003545) as F7. You are correct that in D7 as xx0212 the open D string gives the chord its name. You are also correct that an inversion of that chord would be expressed with a slash in the chord name (as in @Swervin55's example above).


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## Geeetar (Oct 25, 2015)

I realized im an absolute winner today.

I was super tired and confused you guys more than I should have.

The fingering should have been indicated as: 

545xxx

Being an a7 which is a moveable shape up and down the neck.

Sorry about the inconvenience.

Thanks pattste for the link.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Ok that makes much more sense now.

I double checked chord construction theory (just to be sure) and for a dominant 7 (the actual chord we're discussing, different from a major or minor 7), the formula is 1 3 5 b7 from the major scale. The chord you described has only the 1 3 b7. There's no 5 tone. So while it kind of is a dominant 7, it isn't. I'm not sure how the omission of the 5 affects the naming of the chord (or if it does at all). I would be interested to hear from someone who KNOWS. It's not my intent to further confuse the issue, I would just like know for my own reasons. While I wait I'll do a little digging on my own.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I found this...basically saying some tones are critical to how the chord sounds, others aren't.

http://www.tyquinn.com/2010/chord-theory-6-omitting-notes/

"Usually one of the most unessential notes of any chord is the fifth. In these chords the fifth is essentially “inert”. It does not contribute to the sense of major or minor, nor does it add any interest (tension, dissonance or sense of forward movement) to the sound. Therefore it can typically be omitted quite safely without affecting the stability or tonality of the chord.

As an example, while a Cmaj7 would normally have the notes C, E, G and B, it is common to leave the G out, keeping only the C, E, and B. This is also true for dominant and minor type chords.

Of course, with chords which have a b5 or #5 (such as augmented and diminished type chords), it would normally be best to try to keep the fifth as these altered fifths do play an important role in the sound of the chord (they add dissonance and forward movement)."


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Geez Geetar, thanks for the unintended retrospect on chord structure. I was really confused as well as everyone, so I had to dig into some theory as well. Theory that has been sitting deep in my brain, not doing much to answer the original post correctly, but bringing up a vast assortment of goodies that any guitarist can tap into, be it Blues, Jazz, Rock, Metal...whatever. Along with what JB above posted, the 5th is basically a note in the chord that strengthens the chords tonality, not much else. It can also help to leave out the 5th to imply certain chords, depending of cousre on what is being played as a root by the guitar or bassist. It isn't like a power chord where ONLY the 1 and 5 are played and major and minor is implied by the scale you play over it, but the idea of omitting the 5th can be used for some great extensions. Particularly the #11 (or b5 tritone devil's note in blues), the 6 or #9 (same as a b3) etc, particularly in a blues type of setting when switching between Major and minor keys or changing the key itself.

Sorry for going OT there, but I consider this post tit for tat. Since you confused me, I thought I'd throw in some "extras" just to help in the confusion. Your welcome. 

Re: movable chords, keep a good grip on the triads and their inversions and everything else will fall into place. At least for now. I don't know if you'de want to go with the more advanced route of drop 2's at this point (probably not), or in the future. Then you'd be getting into jazz/jazz fusion territory in that case.


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## Geeetar (Oct 25, 2015)

Dorian2 said:


> Geez Geetar, thanks for the unintended retrospect on chord structure. I was really confused as well as everyone, so I had to dig into some theory as well. Theory that has been sitting deep in my brain, not doing much to answer the original post correctly, but bringing up a vast assortment of goodies that any guitarist can tap into, be it Blues, Jazz, Rock, Metal...whatever. Along with what JB above posted, the 5th is basically a note in the chord that strengthens the chords tonality, not much else. It can also help to leave out the 5th to imply certain chords, depending of cousre on what is being played as a root by the guitar or bassist. It isn't like a power chord where ONLY the 1 and 5 are played and major and minor is implied by the scale you play over it, but the idea of omitting the 5th can be used for some great extensions. Particularly the #11 (or b5 tritone devil's note in blues), the 6 or #9 (same as a b3) etc, particularly in a blues type of setting when switching between Major and minor keys or changing the key itself.
> 
> Sorry for going OT there, but I consider this post tit for tat. Since you confused me, I thought I'd throw in some "extras" just to help in the confusion. Your welcome.
> 
> Re: movable chords, keep a good grip on the triads and their inversions and everything else will fall into place. At least for now. I don't know if you'de want to go with the more advanced route of drop 2's at this point (probably not), or in the future. Then you'd be getting into jazz/jazz fusion territory in that case.


I'm so sorry, I never meant to hurt you like this! LOL


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

It's good to have a reason to look, both to confirm what you thought and find errors in what you thought. Both are valuable.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

There is a website that shows you all the chords. Click on the frets and the strings and it will tell you what the chord is. I dont have the link at work. Hopefully I can find it when I go home


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

http://chordfind.com/

There is a reverse chord you can use. Just enter the fret number on the appropriate string and it will give you the chord name.


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## Budd (Mar 4, 2014)

That shape at that fret is F7 , if you move down one fret its E7 , up one more fret & its F#7 & on & on
Budd


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