# Question about multi-effects through ss VS tube amps



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

So I've been checking out multiple demos on multi-effect pedals. My question is this; Does the amp that the effects are plugged into greatly affect the tone? For instance, if the effects (considering the Zoom G3 or G5) have modelling amps as well as effects, will the modeled amps lose the sound their emulated sounds?

Or are these pedals designed to be used through the effects loops as opposed to in the front?

Will there be significant difference if played through an SS amp vs tube?


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I have a Pod XT Live that sounds great through headphones or direct. It is nowhere near as nice through an amp, any amp. As soon as I plug it into an amp it sounds digital and sterile. It's OK at bedroom levels to experiment with but I would never use it live through an amp. I have a friend with a Boss multi effect. Sorry don't know the exact model. Same thing with it. When she uses it live she goes direct to the console. It doesn't sound right through an amp.

Edit: it does sound OK through an amp if I turn off the amp and cabinet simulation and just use the effects.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

The amp absolutely affects the effects. Not just tubes vs. ss but different things I've amps and different ss amps. That is why it's so important to try things in person and with your gear if possible. 
The more experience you have the better you can judge how certain things will play with one another but having it in hand is always the best policy.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks guys, the reason I'm asking is because I am saving my pennies for a really good amp. I saw these effects and was surprised at their low cost. Then I started wondering if I actually need a high end amp, and if a basic (no frills) one channel tube amp with a high quality speaker would be a cheaper alternative. That being said, would a better set up for a home player be to play through a set of good monitors? I'm really only a home, low to mid volume level player at this point.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2015)

Home played at low volume? I don't know why you'd go with an amp. A modeling setup, any current one really, can give you a wide range of stellar tones at whisper quiet levels. There's something for everyone's budget too. From a used 11R to the Amplifier up to a Helix or AX8 and in to an Axe-Fx II or Kemper -- all have incredibly musical sounds in them that make bedroom playing more enjoyable than a tube amp stuck on 0.5 because you can't wake the neighbors and really open it up.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Pretty much every sound system will alter the frequency content and audibility of the signal source. I suppose your experience may differ but I am always knocked out by how different the mix for something can sound, listened to in my car, on my headphones, or through my computer speakers (none of which is particularly high end).

So, should it surprise us that a multi-FX unit can sound different through headphones than through the amp? Not in the least.

What hasn't been mentioned very much is _which_ effects. Scotty expresses concerns about whether amp models will retain their personality when heard through an amp. That will depend on the speakers in the amp, and how hard the effect unit will be pushing the amp. My money is on the authenticity of the amp model getting lost if the amp is not run as cleanly as possible, with the EQ controls set for flat frequency response. Keep in mind that some amps have built-in scoops or other sorts of accentuation that will override whatever the amp-modelling device is attempting to do, such that it may be impossible to hear the model as intended, whether that amp is tube or SS.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

A home player? I suggest either a multi effect and a set of headphones or a nice small ss combo. They are so much better then they used to be. You'll rarely hear what a tube amp can really sound like if you play at low volumes; even a 5 watt tube amp is often too loud for a lot of houses. Modelling sounds great these days.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

If you have good speakers, you can go the free recording program + VST route a lot of people use. 

Also, a suggestion - usually an amp modeller into a real amp doesn't sound that good. Amp modelling usually sounds best through a "flat EQ" device like monitors etc.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Awesome, thanks guys. Don't get me wrong I do turn it up enough that you can hear it approaching my front door. 
I like jamming to the stereo and eventually, I'd like to get together with others, so I don't mind investigating in an amp. 

But I would like one that can be played at bedroom levels, some/most of the time and would like the option of modelling/effects pedals...just when I thought plug and play would be easy, it appears it is not and I'm no closer to finding a perfect system with a beer pocketbook


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

Lots of good answers and advice here. Respectfully tho, I'm in the other camp where I'd take a great amp over a great modeler for my main setup. I'm 29 and healthy, it doesn't really resonate with me about finding it inconvenient to haul around a good load of gear (there's a limit, but a half stack isn't that big of a deal to me). AxeFX is completely amazing, 11 Rack is good, the good software modelers... all of it. I use some of it in my home recording stuff all the time. But it's always supporting a guitar part I recorded from a flesh and blood amp. I'd happily take even a halfway decent modeler setup to run as a supporting amp in an A/B configuration for live use. But it would always be the second amp. Just me, I like the feel of the real thing first and foremost, like the sound, look... also the way my amps respond to volume changes that I've gotten figured out over the years of playing them... I wouldn't give that up for what's available right now. That won't always be the case. I'll either get older and the convenience of digital will win my vote, or the tech will get to the point where it really does meet and surpass what analog can do. That will happen 100%. But to start out, get at least one great amp and expand your toy box from there. Just my $0.02


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

Annnnnd to address your original question (sorry) the boys above are absolutely right about amps affecting the tone. Check out a plain jane power amp or I've heard good things about running modelers thru bass amp power sections to get an uncolored amp to push your settings. Lots (maybe all) modelers add their own tube feel and compression to the signal at the beginning so you don't want to double up on that by pushing it thru another saggy and compressed amp. Sorry the last post got away from me. Cheers and good luck with the gear hunt!!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Think of a guitar amp/speaker as an instrument and not a reproduction device. The amp and speaker will not pass a signal anywhere near flat or accurate -- which is what a reproduction system will do. PA, hi-fi, and FRFR all are trying to be as flat and accurate as possible, reproducing and amplifying the original signal as close as possible to the original. A keyboard amp might get you in the ball park, a bass amp is a stretch as any highs it reproduces are usually via a piezo (nasty). But they are cheap imitations of a true reproduction system

When you plug your guitar into a pedalboard/amp/speaker, think of that as a system. A modeler duplicates that whole system. If you were to make either system louder (i.e. mic'ing the amp), you want to put it through a reproduction system (the bigger and flatter, the better) and not another amp. A modeler (as the name suggests) models that whole system, including mics and internal guitar cab physics. If you plug that into a guitar amp/speaker, you are effectively plugging it into another instrument/system. Far from ideal, although you may get some interesting results, they probably aren't going to be as intended.

For playing at home, modelers or aps like Garageband give you the whole setup that is easy to scale down (or up). Playing out, when you want to fill the room with sound (yours and bandmates mixed together), then either system will work, either a modeler through a reproduction system (PA, FRF) or the pb/amp/cab as the system filling the room directly. Choose your poison, just don't mix 'em.


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

^^^ exactly


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Another option is to consider a modelling amp, such as the Fender Mustang series, Line 6, Orange, or small Roland Cube models. They can be the best, or worst of both worlds...


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

So aside from the modelling features, the effects features should be fairly decent, no? (tube screamer, delay's, flangers etc?)


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Well, the modelling features *will* be audible. The question is whether you feel they sound "just like" the intended amp if played through your guitar amp. They may well sound fabulous, even though they don't sound just like "the real thing". Same way your flanger/phaser/delay/tremolo may sound different through amp A vs B vs C, but it won't stop sounding like a flanger/phaser/delay/tremolo, whether the amp is SS or tube.


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## mrfiftyfour (Jun 29, 2008)

I use a Zoom G3X on my board in front of my tube amp. My board goes wah<tuner<compressor<distortion +<OD11<G3X. I use only the modulation and delay effects of the G3X.
When I'm too lazy to drag my tube amp to rehearsal, I plug my board into my bandmates ss amp. In this instance, I use one of the Marshall amp models ( cab sim turned off) to improve the overall tone and responsiveness of the od pedals.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Scotty said:


> So aside from the modelling features, the effects features should be fairly decent, no? (tube screamer, delay's, flangers etc?)


on which unit?


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Wonderful, thanks guys. 

Budda, it's the Zoom G3/3x or G5 that I'm considering


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

kinda gonna echo the other advice here

I don't use an amp very much any more.
completely ampless with a Digitech RP355 unit.

If used in front an amp: Do not use amp models. Turn them off in the software editor.

All of them regardless of manufacturers are designed to go direct to mixer.

Plug them into the mixer line in.

if used with an amp. Most positive results will be through the effects loop.

The best of both worlds would be mustang modeling amp or Peavey Viper Modeling amp.


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## qantor (Nov 19, 2014)

I'm still using a Boss GT-6 in the effect loop of my amps and a GT-PRO on my computer with studio monitors. I like these multi-effects, very easy to use. As you can see in the picture below, both have an effect loop if you want to use them as external effects. You can also turn off the amp modeling section and you can setup the routing signal like you want.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

They will sound best on the cleanest channel you can get on your amp. IMHO, the effects units sound best on a SS amp and even better on a powered speaker or PA.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Hey Scotty I love your avatar! Pretty cool!


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2016)

I used to have that poster back in the 80's.
They were the only tapes that I used.
And also the only discs that I use too.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Lola said:


> Hey Scotty I love your avatar! Pretty cool!


Thanks. I thought I should get with the program and put something up. I always like the add and thought it suited. Its how I feel when I listen to some things and how I want to feel when I play



laristotle said:


> I used to have that poster back in the 80's.
> They were the only tapes that I used.
> And also the only discs that I use too.


Yep, me too. I always hated the quality of prerecorded tapes, so I bought a good turntable and the best deck I could afford and I recorded all my albums.
As a result, I have a ton of vinyl that has only ever been played once


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2016)

Same here. I still do.
Not cassette though.
I have a turntable hooked up to my computer and periodically,
I'll borrow albums from a buddy with an extensive collection (6000+)
then burn them onto disc. Something about hearing that pop/hiss/crackle
sounds better than the clean/sanitized reproduction of mp3's. IMO.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Update on this thread;

I rented a tube amp and loved it. Then I took it back and spent $200 on the zoom G3 figuring I could spruce up my SS to satisfy me for a while as a cheaper option. (Kids in college & university, so money is tight and I never use credit) The G3 sounded good with headphones, but not as good through the amp, so after a bit of searching, I located a tube amp that fit the funds I had squirreled away in my play account. 

Now I am pleased with it (the G3). The amp I bought (Traynor YCS90) sounded great on its own and now it is astounding with the G3 with my own patches (pre-loaded patches didn't quite hit the mark)
Actually, the two combined with the EP booster makes my Strat sound incredible....I am elated


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

That photo was iconic.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Scotty said:


> Update on this thread;
> 
> I rented a tube amp and loved it. Then I took it back and spent $200 on the zoom G3 figuring I could spruce up my SS to satisfy me for a while as a cheaper option. (Kids in college & university, so money is tight and I never use credit) The G3 sounded good with headphones, but not as good through the amp, so after a bit of searching, I located a tube amp that fit the funds I had squirreled away in my play account.
> 
> ...


Matt Minglewood, a Nova Scotian blues/rock guitarist and singer who was big in the 70's and 80's on the Canadian club scene, currently uses a Boss digital multi-effects pedal into his Hot Rod Deville or Blues Deville and sounds great at his live shows. A local guy I jam with here plays his Ibanez PRS style guitar through a multi-effects pedal and into a little Peavey Rage 128 SS practice amp and gets tones like you wouldn't believe.


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## grumpyoldman (Jan 31, 2010)

laristotle said:


> I used to have that poster back in the 80's.
> They were the only tapes that I used.
> And also the only discs that I use too.


In case we aren't allowed (or encouraged not) to mention the company, was it M*****x?

John
thegrumpyoldman


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2016)

grumpyoldman said:


> In case we aren't allowed (or encouraged not) to mention the company, was it M*****x?
> 
> John
> thegrumpyoldman


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## mrfiftyfour (Jun 29, 2008)

Scotty said:


> Update on this thread;
> 
> I rented a tube amp and loved it. Then I took it back and spent $200 on the zoom G3 figuring I could spruce up my SS to satisfy me for a while as a cheaper option. (Kids in college & university, so money is tight and I never use credit) The G3 sounded good with headphones, but not as good through the amp, so after a bit of searching, I located a tube amp that fit the funds I had squirreled away in my play account.
> 
> ...


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

What, the whole rig? (Same amp, guit, pedals?)

I just finished playing for a few...spent some time working on some "Floyd-ish" material of my own....I LOVE this set-up. Virtual round of beers to all that suggested I deep 6 the old amp for tube and add the EP booster...BIG THANKS


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

grumpyoldman said:


> In case we aren't allowed (or encouraged not) to mention the company, was it M*****x?
> 
> John
> thegrumpyoldman


Thats the one!


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2016)

Uhm .. nope.
The x is in the middle.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

laristotle said:


> Uhm .. nope.
> The x is in the middle.


That's a risky threesome


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Glad you found some gear that suits your ear. It's kinda funny because I jam quite often with a younger dude who has a bunch of nice gear, guitars etc. But every damn time he came over to play he'd bring his Fender, Gretch, or Gibson guitars, a nice pedal board, and his puny little main Amp. A line 6 SS Spider 15. He was asking me how I got my sound (it's very particular sounding), as all I was using was my LP straight to the modded(V30 + Groove tubes) Peavey Valveking 112. I said "do me a favor. Plug into my rig and see what you think." I let him play while entrenched in the sound for about 45 minutes straight. Next time I saw him he came over with a new H&K Tubemeister 36 with a 212 V30 cabinet. (this was of course after a few lengthy conversations over the weeks following and him trying out, at my request, a number of different amps he grabbed then took back). I insisted that he try to find his own sound, not one that sounds like me.

You'll probably get AMP GAS soon. There's a reason why I have 5 amplifiers in my little herd.


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