# House wiring advice? (Old house - No grounded outlets!)



## Esoterik (Dec 18, 2006)

Well, this is sort of music related, but has more to do with general electrical/electronic stuff.

I just moved into a house from my old apartment. It's an older house, probably built in the 50's. The inside has been updated some (bathroom, sauna, paint, ripped out the shag carpeting, hardwood flooring).

However, something that is concerning me is the lack of proper 3-prong electrical sockets. This is a pretty big deal as I have a computer with recording equipment, guitar amps, etc. and I don't want anything damaged.

Also I am planning on building a home studio, so that means additional (expensive) equipment I'd rather not get ruined, nevermind the obvious safety issues.


There are _some_ 3-prong outlets in the house, but when I plug in either of my surge protectors, they show that there is a "wiring fault". I am assuming these outlets were installed so that modern 3-prong electrical appliances/electronics would fit, but were not actually grounded at all. (In fact one of my surge protectors shows a lifted ground)

So far, all my equpiment works fine but I am worried that should a short circuit happen, something might blow up, catch the house on fire, or something equally terrible. 

Anyone an electrician? Advice? An idea of approximate cost to wire these outlets properly? Could I attempt it myself (probably not a good idea)?

I would even be OK if it's only certain areas (recording room, living room) that are wired properly. Most of the other rooms I'm not running anything except lamps, hair dryers etc., which use 2-prong electrical plugs.


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## Michelle (Aug 21, 2006)

Hey Esoterik; Our house was like that, the old wiring didn't even have a ground so even if there was a 3-prong receptacle, it didn't ground, that would be a fault and could also be reversed wiring. You'd have to shut off the breaker and check it, (the neutral, (white), connects to the wider slot/chrome screw, hot, (black) on the brass screw/narrow slot, bare grd on box).

If the wiring doesn't have a ground, it's best to run some new ckts, especially like you say, for your eqpt. It's pretty easy if you know your way around.


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## Luke98 (Mar 4, 2007)

Don't screw around too much... Old wiring is likely to have some minor problems.

A relative (electrician) used to say the only surefire way to make sure a socket worked was to lick your fingers and poke it into a lightbulb socket.


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## PaulS (Feb 27, 2006)

I would shut off a circuit breaker or remove fuse whatever that feeds a known receptacle with a 2 prong receptacle in it and then remove the receptacle and inspect the wire. Is there a ground in the cable? Sounds like the old 2 conductor paper coat wire. Hopefully it's not Knot & Tubing style. If either of the above my advice is to have it replaced whereever it can be. K&T style is not covered by insurance anymore. I am an electrian .


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## sgiven (Jul 31, 2007)

I'm not an electrician, but I have some experience with wiring.

As mentioned above, it sounds like there is no safety ground to your outlet, and someone just popped in a 3 prong outlet anyway.

You may be able to get an electrician to ground at least one or two outlets and it might not be too much money. 

Fixing them all would require re-wiring your entire house which may be a good idea as far as safety is concerned but it would definitely not be cheap.

FYI, cold water pipes make an excellent ground. Someone a little bit handy could probably rig something up. But maybe best to have an electrician do it if you're not too confident.

Update: I defer to the electrician who posted at the same time as me.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

If there is no ground wire present you need to hire someone or go without electricity... :smile:


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## PaulS (Feb 27, 2006)

Following the code is easy, getting an inspection done is not. If not already it will soon be impossible for the DIY to get a permit for electrical work to be done. If your involving the govt on one of the grants available they will likely require an inspection to be done. Find a competent electrician and see what they advise.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

PaulS said:


> Following the code is easy, *getting an inspection done is not.* If not already it will soon be impossible for the DIY to get a permit for electrical work to be done. If your involving the govt on one of the grants available they will likely require an inspection to be done. Find a competent electrician and see what they advise.


WOOPS...a significant complication, Paul hwopv

"Find a competent electrician and see what they advise.":bow:

Dave


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## Esoterik (Dec 18, 2006)

Wow! Thanks for the responses guys. I wasn't expecting so many replies so soon!

I work in the electronic industry so I borrowed a multimeter from work and brought it home. I checked the outlets around the house. I did the following:

Multimeter on VAC. It's an auto-range multimeter so I didn't have to fiddle with that.
Checked AC voltage from hot to neutral.
Checked AC voltage from hot to "ground".
Checked AC voltage from neutral to ground.
Checked continuity between neutral and ground.

What I found was the following:
Outlets in the kitchen are completely fine. 120VAC from hot to neutral and hot to ground. <1VAC from neutral to ground. Continuity is OK between neutral and ground. I've read elsewhere that it is common for older homes to still have properly grounded outlets in the kitchen.

Outlets in the living room and bedrooms are bad. 120VAC from hot to neutral, and something like 10-15VAC from hot to ground - not good. No continuity between neutral and ground.

Right now I've moved my surge protector from the outlet in the living room area to the kitchen (it reaches!) - and it's happy - no more red "building wiring fault" light. Phew. At least for now, my computer is safe.

Checked the basement - oddly, all but one of the outlets I tried are wired correctly (and are 3-prong). Same as the kitchen outlets above. Does this mean it should be relatively easy to add the grounding wire to the upstairs outlets in the bedrooms & living room?


A little more info, I guess:
I don't own the house, it's rented. If it's easy (cheap) enough to wire up the remaining outlets, I think it should be easy to convince my landlord.

If it requires opening up walls, probably not.

Any more thoughts?

Thanks guys.

BTW I'm in Calgary! I've lurked on these forums a lot but not posted much. Glad to be here.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

What is the panel? Sounds like a partial rewire. The easy runs were replaced or added but the hard to replace circuits were left alone.


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