# Buying a vintage guitar that is all original, but has been refinished



## pickslide (May 9, 2006)

If the price is lowered accordingly, what are your thoughts about this?????


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## Alex Csank (Jul 22, 2010)

I guess it really depends on the guitar. I much prefer originality in a 'Vintage' guitar. However, if the guitar is a 'Hot-Rod', well...I like great sounding and playing guitars, regardless of what's been done to them. Sometimes, the newer technology is a necessary improvement (tuners and electronics for example). If it has been refinished or modified, it DOES indeed lower the value of the guitar and I would not refinish any vintage guitar myself unless it was in need of other 'mods' as well. But...for playing? Sure, give me a re-painted and 'hot-rodded' old axe!


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## pickslide (May 9, 2006)

Im talking about vintage say before 1970.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## Alex Csank (Jul 22, 2010)

pickslide said:


> Im talking about vintage say before 1970.


You're not telling us much! There are LOTS of pre-1970 guitars, yano!


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## Alex Csank (Jul 22, 2010)

nkjanssen said:


> if i have a choice between two vintage guitars, say 1968 gibson sg specials, that are identical in every respect except that one has been refinished, 99% of the time i'll end up with the refinished one. Because it will be just as good a guitar, but will be 30% to 50% lower in price. If i resell it, i'll have to apply the same discount. I won't be out anything, though, unless i'm the fool who refinished it.


eggzakly right! +++1


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## riff (Oct 10, 2010)

Yeah I'm in it for the playability. Couldn't care less if it's all original. I mean if a guy is a collector, sure...then it's an issue...but I'm a player...and if it sounds great...buy it! And a refinish on a Vintage git will NOT affect MOJO....if you believe in MOJO -which I sure as hell do...I'd snag it in a heartbeat if the fit was right.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

nkjanssen said:


> I'm a player, not an investor. A refinish lowers the value. That means it's more affordable. That's a good thing.





nkjanssen said:


> If I have a choice between two vintage guitars, say 1968 Gibson SG Specials, that are identical in every respect except that one has been refinished, 99% of the time I'll end up with the refinished one. Because it will be just as good a guitar, but will be 30% to 50% lower in price. If I resell it, I'll have to apply the same discount. I won't be out anything, though, unless I'm the fool who refinished it.





riff said:


> Yeah I'm in it for the playability. Couldn't care less if it's all original. I mean if a guy is a collector, sure...then it's an issue...but I'm a player...and if it sounds great...buy it! And a refinish on a Vintage git will NOT affect MOJO....if you believe in MOJO -which I sure as hell do...I'd snag it in a heartbeat if the fit was right.


I have to agree, I'd be buying it to play--the re-finish makes it cheaper, and I'm not the one who did it.

My early 70's Les Paul was modded by a previous owner--lowering the value, and one of the reasons I was able to get it.
I modded it some more (New pickups--which weren't original when I bought it-and wired for series/parallel; new machine heads--which weren't original when I bought it; new bridge, as the original was corroded, but I still have it; and a few other things--some restored, some different.)


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

I look for pre '70s guitars in original condition. Re-finishing might not affect the playability but then the guitar isn't original. If it's been modified in any other way I'm not really interested unless it comes the original parts.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

There was a time when it was ok to do mods.. the 70's was that time ...


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

dude..stop been so secretive..LOL..give us the real lowdown...and with price, this way, we can give you a good estimate of value and all.


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## pickslide (May 9, 2006)

I am not talking about any specific guitar...just asking for people's thoughts in general. But if you want something specific, I have recently been thinking about vintage strats or teles.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Somethings that come to mind are why was it refinished and who refinished it.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

If it has been re finished once....re finish it again. No biggie. As long as it feels right in your hands, that is what matters.


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

In GENERAL I love re-fins and monkeyed with vintage guitars. However......

Each specific guitar would have to be evaluated and assessed on a few levels. Most of these assessments would be completely subjective to the buyer. I have my own set of parameters that I go by in gauging my interest and perceived value to myself in non-original vintage pieces. 

Some of the best sounding and playing Fender guitars I've ever played and owned have had body refins only. The neck and electronics are still original. (if the neck is refinned or has overspray, that's a deal breaker for me) The other good thing about monkeyed with guitars is that you can do things like re-frets, break solder joints and try other electronics without further de-valuing the instrument.

With Gibson guitars, it's a little harder for me to have clear parameters. It really depends on the amount and quality of changes/work done to the guitar.....and of course price
Here is an example of something I bought recently. It's an early 61' SG/Les Paul. 

this guitar has had the following changes......
Original PAFs gone, original pots gone, non-original frets heel crack, body top crack near vol and tone controls, original sideways vibrato replaced.

Here are the good things.....
original finish, tuners, bridge, knobs, all plastic. The refret and heel/body cracks were repaired by Joe Glazer (Nashville's top luthier). the refret makes the guitar playable to the nth degree, the quality of the crack repairs is unparalled. the pickup are Duncan Antiquities, the pots are RS vintage spec with bumble bee caps. The removal of the sideways vibrato makes the guitar way more stable and roadworthy. However the original vibrato was included in the sale (which makes it a little more sale-able down the road ) ......and most importantly, old wood that has had the living crap played out if it.

The price.....This guitar was purchased for roughly less than a quarter the price of an all original guitar. Or slightly more than a historic re-issue.
The value (to me)....way beyond the cost. I have been buying and selling the Gibson historic SG re-issues for the past number of years looking for that vintage magic. While thay are very good, they were not coming close to what I remember my long departed original 61' SG/LP to play and sound like. 
I've used this SG at two gigs so far and not only do I think it kicks ass, but my band says so too. They love it. It really does have a sweet spot in each position. 
And the nice thing is.....if I want change something (like the pickups) ...I can do it without angst or remorse.

Here's a pic.....whadda ya think?


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

I think it's beautiful! And I like your evaluation process, makes perfect sense to me.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

faracaster said:


> Here's a pic.....whadda ya think?


Its on the magical green blanket! How are we supposed to evaluate it! Might as well show a pic of Angus playin [email protected] :rockon2:


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## TubeStack (Jul 16, 2009)

Who cares, as long as it sounds/plays/feels great.


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## Big White Tele (Feb 10, 2007)

Ive got a 68 Tele that was refinished very poorly. Most likely with a can of Wal Mart spray paint. I dont care...It sounds and plays great. But a while ago, I pulled off the bridge, and it still had evidence of Pink Paisley.....Now I know why someone in the 70's stripped it....but geez Pink Paisley? These are going for big bucks now.


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

Big White Tele said:


> Ive got a 68 Tele that was refinished very poorly. Most likely with a can of Wal Mart spray paint. I dont care...It sounds and plays great. But a while ago, I pulled off the bridge, and it still had evidence of Pink Paisley.....Now I know why someone in the 70's stripped it....but geez Pink Paisley? These are going for big bucks now.


OMG !!!!!!!! I LOVE that original pink paisley.


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## tpbiii (Nov 15, 2010)

Hi all,

My wife and I have been collecting vintage acoustics for maybe 30 years -- we started playing them about 50 years ago, when some of them were new:banana:. We know very little about the electric market, although we have a few of those too.

The "rule of thumb" in vintage acoustics these days seems to be a drop of 50% in value over an original finish instrument. Of course, every old guitar is both a musical instrument and a historic "object of art," and both views effect the price. Refinishes impact both roles. Too much finish can effect the sound quality, but the functional killer is that, if too much wood is removed doing the refinish process, the top may be destabilized -- which is very serious. From a "collector of historic artifacts" perspective, loss of originality is a big deal.

We think of old guitars as having both desirability (why we want he guitar) and value (how much to pay for the guitar). For us, guitars with great sound quality and that are stable are desirable -- this certainly could include refinished guitars. Basically, we collect vintage sounds. But we must buy responsibly in the real market, and the market sets the value.

The sound determines the desirability -- the market sets the value.


Best,

-Tom


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## mario (Feb 18, 2006)

faracaster said:


> Here's a pic.....whadda ya think?


I think that look's awesome! LOL....I'm also a '61 and would kill to get a deal like that. Enjoy!


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

I said I wouldn't be interested but only under the circumstances that there was actual paper work to prove what was done and it was the real body/neck of the original guitar. Too many scams out there these days.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

I think playability is key. Also under some circumstances, you may have to get a refinned if the supply of that certain model has dryed up. I just bought a refinned Guild of which there were 95 made. Its kind of hard to say, I'll just take the next one. If its something on every street corner, then you can pass............


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Are you buying it as an investment or as a guitar?


Answer that question and you have the answer to your original question I think.

In a sense a refinished vintage guitar is exactly the opposite of a relic'd modern one. It says to me, this guy is not buying a vintage guitar to impress the cork sniffers or to look like he's been around, but because it's a great old piece. Improving it by refinishing it, as long as it's done well, doesn't make it any less a great instrument.


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## pickslide (May 9, 2006)

Didn't check this thread for a while and didnt know it was still active lol. 

I actually just bought my first real vintage guitar....a 1970 les paul deluxe goldtop. It was not refinished, but it does have a broken headstock repair. I got it for what I feel is a good price and am really digging it. So, to answer my own question, I would buy reparied, refinished vintage gear if the price is right and its a player!


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