# Anyone noticed the quality of driving has taken a dump?



## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

I have worked several careers that involved much driving around the GTA since the 70's. The last few years I find total disregard of the traffic laws by more and more drivers.
Just this morning I was passed by a speeding car on a single lane road while crossing an intersection(I was a bit over the limit not holding anyone up). This driver eventually made a right on red without stopping.
-driving without lights in bad weather
-driving without lights
-no signalling lane changes
-tailgating
-left turns on red
-it goes on and on....

Used to be women drivers were invisible...now they drive with the habits of the worst of of males.

Is driving instruction that bad now? Are laws not being enforced? Do people not have any driving skills or abilty anymore?

I wonder how much cheaper our insurance rates would be if drivers all behaved themselves?

end of rant


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

A lot of these things wouldn't happen if people actually paid attention while driving their vehicles.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I would say it's not just you... when I was on the road for work (came off in 2008) it was pretty bad. Just seemed to me that 80% of the people out there were angry about something. Either traffic, or maybe a bad job, or maybe trouble at home, whatever but people seemed angry to me. I always used traffic jams as a way to catch up on something. Phone calls, emails, something. But I guess a lot of people never had those things or were not getting paid to sit there either like I was.

But what scares me more today than any of that is texting while driving. It is the curse of our age. People are dying and will continue to die because of it. It has to be stopped. I learned my lesson early on when I was fiddling around while turning a corner and road up a curb destroying a tire and rim. That was enough for me. 

You had that young girl not long ago texting her BF and drove into the back of a transport truck on the highway. Killed for nothing.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

Morkolo said:


> A lot of these things wouldn't happen if people actually paid attention while driving their vehicles.


agreed.... despite the distracted driving laws here in Edmonton, I still see drivers on their phones, eating ( I literally saw a man using chopsticks and eating noodles out of a bowl recently), searching their car for items, talking to passengers, etc.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

blam said:


> agreed.... despite the distracted driving laws here in Edmonton, I still see drivers on their phones, eating ( I literally saw a man using chopsticks and eating noodles out of a bowl recently), searching their car for items, talking to passengers, etc.


Yeah, quite a bit of it around here. I travel for work a couple days a week, around the province....I don't really think the highways are worse, if anything Highway 2 to Calgary is BETTER than it was in years past....but they hired a big force of sherrifs a few years back, and there is usually lots of law presence up and down that road. You don't see packs of 6-8 cars racing up and down that highway at 160km/h like you used to. In town here is another story though, bad.

I think it relates at least in part to something we have discussed in other OT topics, lack of respect.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Take a drive on the Autobahn and see the difference. Everybody keeps right, stays in the centre of the lane, signals all moves, its a place you can drive without worry about fools, until a tourist shows up............


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## Short Circuit (Mar 25, 2007)

I drive for my job and I wish I had one of those on board cameras. I could post a youtube video of idiot drivers every day. And By the way, the company name is on the side of my van so I "have" to behave when I drive. kkjuw

Mark


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## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

Accept2 said:


> Take a drive on the Autobahn and see the difference. Everybody keeps right, stays in the centre of the lane, signals all moves, its a place you can drive without worry about fools, until a tourist shows up............


I remember reading a quote from a Mercedes rep who replied to a criticism of the lack of cup holders that if one wants to drink coffee one should stop at a restaurant.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Four things...

1) As I regularly rant on about, I think we have seen a steady decline in both the capacity for, and the valuation of, patience within western industrialized culture. So we're going to see misbehaviour of drivers in just about _every_ community, although I imagine it will be more front and centre in some than in others because of the nature of the lifestyle there. I refuse to believe that the culture which has to have access to a phone and call-waiting at all times, can't wait to get off the bus or out of the store to have a phone argument about custody arrangements, can't wait for a download an extra minute, and needs to have microwaveable food available faster, is going to be a culture where drivers say "Meh, I'm just going to end up at the same red light as him anyway. No point in trying to pass."

2) I think the misbehaviour of many drivers is partly a result of housing and city planning. As home-ownership prices skyrocket and more people feel they ought to own a home, suburbs expand dramatically, and more people live much farther away from their work or other destinations, simply to be able to afford a home. It is not uncommon for many people to commute 60+ kilometers a day just on their drive in and drive home. In the GTA, North York and Mississauga used to be the outer edges, and now folks in Vaughan and Whitby are considered to be in the suburbs. The greater the distance people have to drive in their commute, the more resentful they become as drivers, especially if that distance involves a great deal of cooperation. If you're driving a rural road for 30km each day, I would expect less irritable behaviour. But there are limits to human cooperation. And when you have miles and miles of multi-lane roadway where people hate being on it, their impatience begets misbehaviour, and their misbehaviour begets your misbehaviour and impatience. To travel the 401 or 400 or 427 is to be consumed by and channel the very worst in human nature. It's crazy contagious. There was a time when Montreal drivers were worse than Toronto, but I think that the rapid growth of the GTA has nudged Toronto drivers out in front with respect to rudeness, rashness, and recklessness. 

3) One may also suggest that we should characterize some of what goes on on the road as "automotive bullying". You know those times when you're doing 130-135, and some doofus pulls up behind you and starts giving your vehicle a rectal exam until you manage to find a space in the right lane to pull into, at which point they zip by at 145+ to give the next guy a similar colonoscopy, only to be found doing 120 in the right hand lane a kilometer or two down the road? It's bullying, plain and simple. They want what they want, and they don't give f*** who they have to take it from.

4) As cars got smaller and had faster pickup, perceptions of what cars ought to be able to do have changed. The sorts of spaces that many drivers treat as reasonable gaps between cars in the same lane have changed, even though the rule of one car-length for every 10kph, and the sensible physics behind the rule, still applies. I'm reminded of the study I heard about on CBC years back where the researcher had provided the same running shoes to two groups of university athletes, but told one group the shoes were state-of-the-art hi-tech shoes with special features. At the end of the year, the ones who thought they were wearing extra special shoes had acquired significantly more sports related injuries and hospitalizations, largely because they took more chances as a result of their unrealistic expectations. Yes, your car may have ABS and high-end tires, but you know what? The laws of physics have not changed; momentum is still momentum and mass x velocity still applies. And human processing speed and reaction time has not changed. A third of a second to assess and react has never been and will never BE sufficient time.

Me, I can't even begin to count the number of times some moron has done something incredibly rash and dangerous, only to end up at the same red light as me, either just in front of me, or right beside me in the other lane. And when a vehicle comes out of nowhere doing something stupid, or bullying other drivers, a little over 60% of the time it is a black pickup truck, a black SUV, a black Jeep or something larger than sedan and black. In our family we recognize what we call "the black truck rule". And the black truck rule is that if you are driving a black truck, or something similar enough that in your mind you're driving one, then no rules apply to you. Apologies to all those who own black trucks and drive safely. Someone else is besmirching your name.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

The area in which you are also counts for a lot. I have never been in an accident and have been driving since I was 16, a 34 year record and 14 of those spent on the road for work. I am not boasting. Lots of it was probably just luck but I do pride myself on keeping my eyes open and have always used the rule to NEVER expect another driver to do what is expected and obvious. That's when you will get killed.

But back to the point. Several years ago I had some family from Nova Scotia that had just recently moved to Hamilton. I stopped in there on my way back home from Michigan one day, on a Friday to bring them back to Niagara for the weekend. Many months later I was talking to some of the family in NS and they had mentioned that so and so was talking to them about the day I drove them into Niagara and that they all wet their pants by the time we got there. Now to me that's driving on the 403/QEW on a Friday in the summer between the hours of 5 and 7. To them it was like being in a NASCAR race.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Yep. "Easy does it" lives _somewhere_ in Canada, just not within 80 miles of the GTA.

About 7 years ago, my alternator crapped out on me and my car died in the middle express lane on the 401, heading into Toronto near the Leslie St. exit, the Friday of the Labour Day Weekend at 3:45 PM. I got out, and flipped up the hood to see if there was anything I could do (I had a spare battery on its last legs).

Do you know what it's like to run with the bulls in Pamplona and stop to see if you can recognize them all by name? That's what it's like to stare down all that traffic, for as far as the eye can see, as a pedestrian in the middle of the road, knowing that every single driver blames *YOU* for the fact they can't drive 135 and get out to the cottage sooner. 

But Toronto drivers are a helpful inventive lot. As they passed by they called out and offered a number of innovative ideas that would have simply not occurred to me in a million years, like "Get off the road", and "Get your car out of the way". See what I mean? Just because they were concentrating on their driving doesn't mean they DIDN'T have their thinking caps on. Helpful AND conscientious.

The guy stuck behind me helped me to push my car to the center median, where we waited for about 5 minutes before a tow-truck came. No phonecall was necessary. They circle like vultures. Seventy-bucks, and twenty minutes later, the guy had towed us to the first available garage coming off Bathurst. And just my luck, it was probably the only Orthodox Jewish garage in Canada...and this guy was closing shop at 5:30 for the Sabbath come hell or high water, not to re-open until Monday. Toronto was not our destination for the evening, so we were worried. The parts distributor arrived with the reconditioned alternator around 5:00-5:10. 5:30 it was in place, we had done the paperwork, he was shutting the lights off and we were heading out.

Scary AND expensive, but a great story nonetheless. I still feel a tinge of anxiety when I pass that spot on the highway.


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

My least favourite country to drive in has been Australia. Never seen so many drivers with absolutely no sense of consequences for their actions. People would overtake into oncoming traffic so that the cars approaching had to move off the road; they'd overtake around blind corners and across double lines; and so on. Of course, those things are common in other countries, too, but somehow it seemed worse there, perhaps because it's not expected that people will drive like that. In places like India it's expected and people deal with it. Greece was my favourite place. The road rules were pretty much 'biggest vehicle has right of way in any lane, in any direction', but accidents were rare (from my personal observations), possibly because everyone respected those rules.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> The area in which you are also counts for a lot. I have never been in an accident and have been driving since I was 16, a 34 year record and 14 of those spent on the road for work. I am not boasting. Lots of it was probably just luck but I do pride myself on keeping my eyes open and have always used the rule to NEVER expect another driver to do what is expected and obvious. That's when you will get killed.
> 
> But back to the point. Several years ago I had some family from Nova Scotia that had just recently moved to Hamilton. I stopped in there on my way back home from Michigan one day, on a Friday to bring them back to Niagara for the weekend. Many months later I was talking to some of the family in NS and they had mentioned that so and so was talking to them about the day I drove them into Niagara and that they all wet their pants by the time we got there. Now to me that's driving on the 403/QEW on a Friday in the summer between the hours of 5 and 7. To them it was like being in a NASCAR race.


Very similar record here - couple years younger, but in all that time I twice rear ended someone at 5 km/h after sliding on ice for 75m or more....so, though I'm not scott free, I'm about as close as it comes. Same rules - I'm a bit lazy most of the time but when I'm driving, I am INVOLVED and ACTIVE in the act of driving. I like driving. I go from here to Vancouver a couple times a year, 12 hours on the road and I'm still sharp as a tack - I feel like I have to be, but at the same time it doesn't bother me.

Speaking of Vancouver, Mark mentioned 60km commutes. Try 185 km EACH WAY from Chilliwack to downtown Van - and it's fairly common. And the highway is just a 4 lane divided, ie., 2 each way. (OK the last few years they've brought some stretches to 3 a side in relatively short stretches). THOSE PEOPLE ARE INSANE they spend 5-6 hours a day just commuting (ya, the closer you get to Van the slower you go. By the time you hit Surrey you'll be lucky to be doing 70 km/h on Canada #1 during rush hour, more like 30-40 km/h many days and you still have a good half hour+ to downtown.). My blood pressure rises just thinking about it. I do travel, but I work from home so my commute is pants optional, coffee, fire up computer. I've been lucky, 30 years working my worst commute was 20 minutes for a couple of years when I lived on the north side of Regina and worked downtown.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I routinely walk a length of highway 21 through Goderich. It's a 50kmh zone all the way, 4 lanes. I see more hand held cellphones, texting, coffee cups in drivers' hands than ever, mostly car drivers. I also get cut off at crosswalks frequently, again mostly cars. What surprises me are the number of run red lights as there are 3 in quick succession near my place, and truckers are the worst for this. Why someone hasn't died baffles me, though there are close calls and fenderbenders.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I drive a lot, and all over North America through some of the biggest cities.

I don't know that driving is worse, but there are simply too many cars out there.

My biggest complaint is the drivers on each end of the spectrum. Too much confidence (or agression) or too little are equally bad and dangerous in my opinion.

Yes, weaving in and out of traffic and changing lanes without a signal are bad. So is blocking the passing lane because you're too ignorant or stupid to pull to the right.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...this whole phenomenon of the "left lane bandit" is the most bogus invention since the "war on christmas". as far as i can tell, the only purpose is to create a distraction from the serious safety issues that we face daily, not to mention the 3,000 deaths and 250,000 injuries, mostly preventable, that happen annually.

as far as i can see, nobody, and i mean nobody, stops for stop signs or (right turn) red lights unless they have absolutely no other option.

everybody talks on their cell phone and claims it is not a distraction. maybe they don't think they are distracted, but if you are behind or besidde them, you know damn well how distracted they actually are.

getting behind the wheel turns most people into idiots. or, perhaps the reality is that they are actually idiots.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Milkman said:


> I don't know that driving is worse, but there are simply too many cars out there.


I find that has an impact on the effectiveness of signage. In a city like Toronto, a lot of the signage is from decades ago, when there were considerably fewer cars on the road, much more homogenous car sizes, and the generally larger size meant less zipping in and out. I find that I tend not to have as much opportunity to see signs now because of peer pressure to drive faster (lest they see that 15-ft space and cut in front), and bloody SUVs with tinted windows in front of me that I can't see under, over, through, or around. The sign ends up being visible only at the last second, so there is less time to prepare, and you suddenly find yourself in a turning lane heading in a direction you don't want to go in. It may be easier for locals who know the signs and streets, but for an out of towner, it's like an amusement park or halloween "funhouse" where stuff keeps leaping out at you unexpectedly.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I started to notice the left lane nonsense in the mid 90's and it has grown totally out of control now to where there really is no such thing as a passing lane. I am not sure kids are even taught that anymore because nobody really uses in as such. You will get people driving along in those lanes and being passed on the right hand side for miles and miles and they can't figure out why everyone is giving them dirty looks as they go by. 

On the QEW East bound after say Burlington you just go wherever the hell you want. It's total warfare after that point.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I end up in the left lane simply because I'm going to end up pulling out to pass every 20 seconds anyway, so I just stay in it and maintain my speed at something which is faster than the right lane but still safe. If someone comes up behind me and appears to want to go even faster, I'll find a temporary spot in the right when one becomes available, and then move back into the left when that whole stream of cars has passed and there'll be no one behind me. Oftimes those same peole who were on my ass end up being in the right hand lane again when I resume my cruising speed.

Then there are the people who ride your tail aggressively, absolutely convinced that their inability to drive 140 is because _*you're*_ the problem. So you find a spot in the right lane, pull in and let them become every bit as boxed in by same traffic that was in front of you for the last 10 minutes. Some folks don't appear to look more than 20ft ahead of themselves.

Like I say, patience used to be a virtue. These days it is an exceedingly rare commodity.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...i guess i'll have to drive out to thorold to take a look. i've been driving all over canada, and spend a lot of time driving around the gta. i'm a fast driver, usually in a hurry (mostly because i hate driving), and yet i rarely find myself in a situation where i have to deal with a so-called left lane bandit. i see them, occasionally. and i have to scratch my head: what the hell are they thinking? but as a safety concern, they are a non-issue. if traffic is light/medium, it is not a big deal to get around them. it might even take a few precious seconds of my life. oh, dear! 

on the other hand, if all lanes are congested, are we all supposed to leave the passing lane open for drivers who actually believe they are more important that the rest of us?

screw that.




GuitarsCanada said:


> I started to notice the left lane nonsense in the mid 90's and it has grown totally out of control now to where there really is no such thing as a passing lane. I am not sure kids are even taught that anymore because nobody really uses in as such. You will get people driving along in those lanes and being passed on the right hand side for miles and miles and they can't figure out why everyone is giving them dirty looks as they go by.
> 
> On the QEW East bound after say Burlington you just go wherever the hell you want. It's total warfare after that point.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...not to mention the fact that most drivers will actually punish you if you pull into the right lane to allow someone to pass. put your left turn signal on and see if anyone lets you back into the passing lane. good luck with that. 

get all the "me first" drivers off the road, then we can talk about so-called left lane bandits.


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## BIGDC (Aug 16, 2011)

I think a bigger problem than the "left lane bandit" is the "centre lane bandit" doing 90kph who act like a rock in a stream and force others to pass on both sides of them. On my drives up to Oakville oftentimes the RH lane is completely empty and you can zip along at 120 for quite long stretches


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

I think a problem is the non-thinking drivers. When I see up the road that someone is going to turn onto the road, I always change lanes if I can so that they can move onto the road. I see so many times drivers who will continue in the right hand lane with the left one is empty and they see someone trying to move onto the street. Move over, let them get in......
A big thing I see now are the people at 4 way stops who will wait until the car in front of them takes their turn and tail gate them through the intersection instead of waiting their turn......
Last week I was driving in the left hand lane and some guy behind me started to honk at me. He then over took me on the right and dove in between me and the car ahead of me. There were no other cars around so its not like he just took off in the right hand lane. He just could not be behind me for any reason. I think there is a need for some people to pass a Porsche, otherwise they feel bad or something.........


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...this whole phenomenon of the "left lane bandit" is the most bogus invention since the "war on christmas". as far as i can tell, the only purpose is to create a distraction from the serious safety issues that we face daily, not to mention the 3,000 deaths and 250,000 injuries, mostly preventable, that happen annually. as far as i can see, nobody, and i mean nobody, stops for stop signs or (right turn) red lights unless they have absolutely no other option. everybody talks on their cell phone and claims it is not a distraction. maybe they don't think they are distracted, but if you are behind or besidde them, you know damn well how distracted they actually are. getting behind the wheel turns most people into idiots. or, perhaps the reality is that they are actually idiots.


Your perspective may be skewed by where you do most of your driving. Left lane bandits are very real and cause big problems, but you wouldn't see this driving around the GTA.

In major urban areas, congestion makes normal passing meaningless.

Out on the open highways it's a very real problem.

As I clearly indicated, I view overly aggressive drivers as an equally dangerous problem.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> The area in which you are also counts for a lot. I have never been in an accident and have been driving since I was 16, a 34 year record and 14 of those spent on the road for work. I am not boasting. Lots of it was probably just luck but I do pride myself on keeping my eyes open and have always used the rule to NEVER expect another driver to do what is expected and obvious. That's when you will get killed.
> 
> But back to the point. Several years ago I had some family from Nova Scotia that had just recently moved to Hamilton. I stopped in there on my way back home from Michigan one day, on a Friday to bring them back to Niagara for the weekend. Many months later I was talking to some of the family in NS and they had mentioned that so and so was talking to them about the day I drove them into Niagara and that they all wet their pants by the time we got there. Now to me that's driving on the 403/QEW on a Friday in the summer between the hours of 5 and 7. To them it was like being in a NASCAR race.


Oh you have NO idea, I moved here from NS when I was 22 and I can still remember the day I accidentally ended up on the QEW Eastbound (From Southdown Rd in Miss). It was 2 days after I moved here and I damn near crapped my pants. There is NOTHING in NS to compare to Ontario Driving!


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...true, it is somewhat more of an issue on a two-lane highway like the 401 between montreal and toronto, which i travel about a dozen times a year.

the worst thing i can say about it is that it slows me down for a few minutes.

a minor inconvenience? absolutely!

compared to the real dangers we face every time we leave the driveway, however, it is utterly insignificant.

but i do know this: the guy who came screaming up behind me at 40-50 kms over the speed limit and practically ran me off the road because i didn't get out of his way fast enough is the guy who will be calling in to talk radio to whine non-stop about left lane bandits.


QUOTE=Milkman;405111]Your perspective may be skewed by where you do most of your driving. Left lane bandits are very real and cause big problems, but you wouldn't see this driving around the GTA.

In major urban areas, congestion makes normal passing meaningless.

Out on the open highways it's a very real problem.

As I clearly indicated, I view overly aggressive drivers as an equally dangerous problem.[/QUOTE]


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...true, it is somewhat more of an issue on a two-lane highway like the 401 between montreal and toronto, which i travel about a dozen times a year.
> 
> the worst thing i can say about it is that it slows me down for a few minutes.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Well, here's my view of reality for you. A few minutes delay? I regularly drive to Ohio and Michigan. Any farther and I fly.

It's about a five hour drive to the location in Ohio I visit most frequently. If I drive the speed limit it's almost six.

To me, that hour or any significant portion of it is precious. Driving is not a hobby for me. It's a necessary means to an end. I resent people who make judgements with my time when all they have to do is be courteous and move over when it is safe to do so.

I only ask what I am readily willing to give. 

I DO approach traffic in the lane and then back off. Anyone using their mirrors the way we're all supposed to do will see me. I don't tailgate, but it's important to let other drivers know your intentions.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

david henman said:


> but i do know this: the guy who came screaming up behind me at 40-50 kms over the speed limit and practically ran me off the road because i didn't get out of his way fast enough is the guy who will be calling in to talk radio to whine non-stop about left lane bandits.


Yep those are the guys I refer to in terms of "automotive bullying".

I don't know how common it is in other places, but one of the things I regularly run into on the Queensway in Ottawa is the failure of many drivers entering via an on-ramp to merge with traffic at the earliest possible point, despite having many opportunities to do so. More commonly, what far too many will do is use the service road as their passing lane and drive to the very end of the service lane, and, sitting on the hatching where the former on-ramp has now turned into a clover-leaf off-ramp, make puppy-dog eyes and weasel their way into the right-hand lane. If I'm driving in the service lane _because_ I am about to exit, I'll regularly find myself behind these people with their left signal on (maybe, if I'm lucky, and they remember) blocking the exit as they try and force their way into traffic a kilometer and a half down the road from where they came onto the highway. Their intent, of course, is to bypass all the traffic in the right-hand lane, yet it is those very people who directly cause the very sluggishness of traffic they seek to avoid. Morons.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Yep those are the guys I refer to in terms of "automotive bullying".
> 
> I don't know how common it is in other places, but one of the things I regularly run into on the Queensway in Ottawa is the failure of many drivers entering via an on-ramp to merge with traffic at the earliest possible point, despite having many opportunities to do so. More commonly, what far too many will do is use the service road as their passing lane and drive to the very end of the service lane, and, sitting on the hatching where the former on-ramp has now turned into a clover-leaf off-ramp, make puppy-dog eyes and weasel their way into the right-hand lane. If I'm driving in the service lane _because_ I am about to exit, I'll regularly find myself behind these people with their left signal on (maybe, if I'm lucky, and they remember) blocking the exit as they try and force their way into traffic a kilometer and a half down the road from where they came onto the highway. Their intent, of course, is to bypass all the traffic in the right-hand lane, yet it is those very people who directly cause the very sluggishness of traffic they seek to avoid. Morons.


It's simple, like I'm sure the folk on the autobann know. Keep your distance (2 second rule) and look ahead. And for Gord's sake! Pick a lane and stay in it!


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

I think a lot of bad drivers are just ppl from other cultures

I was in Colombia for a while and driving down there is INSANE compared to here: motorcycles splitting cars everywhere, plus 3 lanes of traffic effectively driving on a 2 lane road, using the shoulders freely. it was hysterical. tailgating, no turn signals etc

but no one was freaking out with road rage like we would here, it was all taken in stride. when I got back I couldn't believe how serene everything was, in comparison

I get the heck out of the way if someone comes up behind me & I'm in the left lane, unless it's just traffic & there's no where to go anyway

lately I've been making a conscious effort to just cruise along in the right or middle lanes; I was getting into the habit of driving too fast in the left lane, been lucky so far no tickets

agree on texting/cell phones being stupid & dangerous: I'm glad they banned it finally in ontario, it was illegal in BC 10 years ago


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Toronto driving compared to cities of similar size is really not that bad. 

Try Chicago, Atlanta, et cetera.

Even Montreal is much much worse than Toronto in terms of driving anywhere near the core or even just passing through en route to the east coast.


Or (shudder) one of the megalopolis centers.

I've driven in and through Mexico City and Sao Paulo, Brazil (I strongly discourage anyone from doing this by the way).

For what it's worth, when I get to about Burlington, I start to really be more careful and that includes slowing down.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I have always said that southern Ontario drivers are worse than northern Ontario ones. If a bad driver goes off the road down here he rolls into a field. Up north the bad drivers go into rock cuts.....natural selection at work.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Driving habits really took a large dump with the advent of cell phones and texting. They can put a man on the moon 40 years ago but they can not mandate cell phones, personal computers etc. that do not work around internal combustion engines. Lives mean nothing to the large corperations its all about making money.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

ed2000 said:


> I have worked several careers that involved much driving around the GTA since the 70's. The last few years I find total disregard of the traffic laws by more and more drivers.
> Just this morning I was passed by a speeding car on a single lane road while crossing an intersection(I was a bit over the limit not holding anyone up). This driver eventually made a right on red without stopping.
> -driving without lights in bad weather
> -driving without lights
> ...


Yes, it's getting worse all the time. I moved to the Niagara Peninsula from the Milton area a few years ago and I noticed in just an hours drive, how much more polite and patient the drivers are in the Peninsula. Being away from the traffic congestion of the GTA undoubtedly keeps people more calm behind the wheel.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm in sales & have driven well over 1,000,000 km in the past 20 yrs (this is nothing compared to a trucker, but more than most folks). 2 yrs ago I had the absolute pleasure of driving on the Autobahn. No, it's not a high speed free for all. Alles in ordnung. Ppl pass & move over to the right. They signal before they pull out. They do not text, eat breakfast, apply mascara etc. while driving. All vehicles must be well-maintained or they will be pulled off the road immediately (the polizei have the authority to do spot inspections). All drivers must take a basic mechanics course & view holding a license as a privilege, not a right. Around major cities & roadwork there is a reasonable speed limit which ppl respect. If you flash your lights at someone they actually move over. There's no ego trip or king of the road mentality.


Here are a few suggestion about what can be done to improve our roads:

Give tickets to left-lane bandits AND those who pass on the right (this works very well in Germany).

Have a minimum posted speed on 400 series highways. There's nothing more dangerous than coming up on some jackass doing 80 km/h in the middle lane. If you're scared, pls take the side streets.

Make snow tires mandatory (I can't believe I'm saying this, but kudos to the QC gov't), all seasons are useless below 5 degrees, you might as well have hard plastic tires from a toy car.

Make ppl pass a winter road test before giving them a license. We don't let health care professionals from other countries practice here w/o ensuring that their skills are up to Cdn standards, why should drivers be any different?

Test older folks before they hit 80. Odds are their reflexes & night vision are long gone by that point.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm with you on all but the mandatory winter tires thing.

Anyone who spent the cash on snows this year gambled and lost.

Truthfully having grown up in a very snowy region (New Brunswick) I have yet to see weather in southern Ontario that would warrant winter tires.

But I like the minimum speed, tickets for left lane bandits and right lane passers (can't have that second one without the first).


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

bolero said:


> I think a lot of bad drivers are just ppl from other cultures


...i think we'll just have to assume that you're joking. otherwise, well...never mind...


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Y'all know that where you find humans you find dill holes that need a good ass whipping or to be flat out smacked with a wet tune eh.

I've been around too, and anywhere there are people there are good and bad. When there is an over presence of police people can become overly aggressive. Where there is an under presence of police people can become overly aggressive. Where there is an overloading in information people can become aggressive. When there is no information people can become aggressive. Cities that get the balance closer to right have few complaints of 'bad drivers'.

But that is only in terms of people that drive aggressively. No cure for the ones that drive stupid.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)

Milkman said:


> I'm with you on all but the mandatory winter tires thing.
> Anyone who spent the cash on snows this year gambled and lost.


Our vehicles have snows on all four corners. Sure, it was mild this season, but there were a couple
of days when I was glad I had them on. Oh, and they're not a disposable one season use either.
Have them mounted on their own rims. Takes me 20 minutes per car to swap them out in the spring.
I also agree that 'winter' testing should be mandatory as well.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Roryfan said:


> Make ppl pass a winter road test before giving them a license. We don't let health care professionals from other countries practice here w/o ensuring that their skills are up to Cdn standards, why should drivers be any different?
> 
> Test older folks before they hit 80. Odds are their reflexes & night vision are long gone by that point.


Some very interesting and thoughtful ideas. Driving in winter and summer are entirely different. Not just because of the road surface either. There are all sorts of issues that arise when roads lose a half-lane to snow buildup, or when embankments near the corner obscure everyone's ability to see what is around that corner. Personally, when winter arrives, I generally put myself into a deliberate skid when I leave home just to get the muscle memory back. I'm lucky that we live on a side street, without through-traffic, so it's something I can do as a warm-up exercise for safer winter driving.

Age-related legal requirements for driving eligibility are an interesting and complex affair. Many a study has observed that loss of license is one of the more devastating things you can do to a senior. Particularly since _getting_ a driver's license is deeply entrenched in the culture as a symbol of maturity. Losing it is like having your mom, or a nurse, cut up your food for you. One could expect a vigorous backlash from the constituency affected.

So the question then becomes what criteria to set and what to do when those criteria are not met. Some jurisdictions will have things like municipal licenses, such that an older drive can poke along at 50kph in-town, but can't go on major thoroughfares or leave town. This provides relative independence for many, and keeps them and the rest of us out of harm's way. But it's the sort of thing you can have in a town of 15,000. It doesn't work well in larger places.

I'm with you that waiting until 80 may well be closing the barn after the horses have left. One of the things we know from mountains of research is that reaction time starts to decline in adulthood, which is why the average 16 year-old can kick the average 30 year-old's ass in many a videogame. Once upon a time, the processing-speed requirements for drivers were less taxing, and our concern was that a driver might not be able to see a sign, hear a horn, or be able to remember who arrived at the 4-way first. For a great many drivers, those impediments to legally driving may not happen until well after 80, and maybe never.

But as the amount of information to be processed per second per linear foot increases, the declines in processing-speed of someone my age (almost 60) might be sufficient to modify what they are licensed for or suggest remedial driving-strategy training. It's not a question of being feeble-minded or any such rot. But consider:
- average speeds are faster
- cars are smaller, and accelerate faster, fitting more into the same space and facilitating more last-second lane changing and risk-taking
- there's often more signage to integrate, on the sidewalk, above the intersection, and painted on the pavement
- more cities are incorporating (and often clumsily) cycling, further complicating what drivers encounter, and increasing the amount of information to be integrated per-second.

The result is that processing-speed limits are more taxed now than they might have been for same-aged drivers 30 years ago. Older drivers haven't gotten worse; the conditions under which they are often obliged to drive have. It's kind of like how the technical ability to print things in 4pt font, whether part numbers on SMD chips, or lists of ingredients on ketchup, has required more folks to wear glasses. We aren't losing our sight; we're just moving beyond the limits of human vision. The irony is that open-highway driving at much higher speeds is less of a challenge than city driving at lower speeds, because it's not just how fast you're going, but how much information you have to negotiate in how much time.

Now, speculating a bit, would any municipality, and especially their rate payers, tolerate mandating specially colour-coded or otherwise coded street signs or other demarcations (paint/markings on the pavement) that would let an older driver who needs to have stuff coming at them slower know what streets they can and can't drive on?


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

http://www.agingeye.net/visionbasics/theagingeye.php

For ageing people a part of their troubles is specific to how their eyes age. Vision can be 20/20 but function is not vision. I also recall mom (she was a geriatrics nurse) saying that the colour of the cornea yellows with age and changes the tinting of thing, so the colour perception of elderly is different than non elderly.

Colour systems of signs had been used in Europe in the 1960's if I recall, but I do not think it is still in use now. Colourblindness makes it hard to tell a green line from a red line from a yellow line.


The ABSOLUTE worst in aging drivers behaviours is the sudden breaking they seem to love to do. One near death while driving experience I had 20 years ago was of a LITTLE OLD LADY who started off doing as drivers are supposed to do when entering a highway. You rapidly accelerate (use the passing gear) to match the flow of traffic and then enter traffic (childs play really). She did that, yes, I know she did I was right behind her. O M G then she slammed the brakes and went from 120K to 60K and drove 60K. With a transport behind me, and beside me, and no shoulder to the right it was a REALLY bad moment of a lot of us managing to break fast and not become accordioned.


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## georgemg (Jul 17, 2011)

keeperofthegood said:


> The ABSOLUTE worst in aging drivers behaviours is the sudden breaking they seem to love to do. One near death while driving experience I had 20 years ago was of a LITTLE OLD LADY who started off doing as drivers are supposed to do when entering a highway. You rapidly accelerate (use the passing gear) to match the flow of traffic and then enter traffic (childs play really). She did that, yes, I know she did I was right behind her. O M G then she slammed the brakes and went from 120K to 60K and drove 60K. With a transport behind me, and beside me, and no shoulder to the right it was a REALLY bad moment of a lot of us managing to break fast and not become accordioned.


That's the worst kind of driver to me - people that that do random things for no apparent reason. The worst part is, if you had hit their car it would have been your fault, since your were behind them and should have been able to 'predict' what they were going to do. At least that's what I was told by the officer filling out my report after I bumped into someone's car after they decided to randomly stop in the middle of the road. Arghh!!


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2012)




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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I stopped driving into the city in 1999. Five minutes on the Don Valley and the low level road rage would start to seep in. Go/TTC. Stopped owning a car over 4 years ago. Borrowed my daughter's truck if I need to haul anything a couple times a month. Moved into Toronto in January. So far haven't needed to use a vehicle or take a cab. 

I believe there are a lot more angry people out there driving than 20 years and it shows on the road. But that is likely only one of the reasons. Distracted drivers are also on the rise. Drivers get distracted being on constant lookout for cops so they can uses their phones. Likely a half dozen other reasons too.

I'm glad I don't need a car anymore. Inconvenient at times. Yes, but not near enough for me to justify owning one anymore.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

There also seems to be a parking problem as well. My office is across from a small hotel, and there is plenty of parking for everyone. But, people insist on stopping in the pathway, putting on the blinkers and then going into the office building or hotel. Its 20 feet of walking. Why cant they just park in a parking spot? I see it also at the grocery store. I always park at the back of the parking area where no one parks (especially at T&T).........


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Accept2 said:


> There also seems to be a parking problem as well. My office is across from a small hotel, and there is plenty of parking for everyone. But, people insist on stopping in the pathway, putting on the blinkers and then going into the office building or hotel. Its 20 feet of walking. Why cant they just park in a parking spot? I see it also at the grocery store. I always park at the back of the parking area where no one parks (especially at T&T).........


The best part about parking away from everyone else is you have less chances of someone damaging your vehicle. My Mom works in one of the local malls and the amount of dents, scrapes, gouges etc. is beyond ridiculous and it's all from customers carelessly parking their vehicles in the parking lot or unloading their shopping carts and just pushing them to the side.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

georgemg said:


> That's the worst kind of driver to me - people that that do random things for no apparent reason. The worst part is, if you had hit their car it would have been your fault, since your were behind them and should have been able to 'predict' what they were going to do. At least that's what I was told by the officer filling out my report after I bumped into someone's car after they decided to randomly stop in the middle of the road. Arghh!!


Part of that is a consequence of processing speed. When there is more stuff coming at you, per unit of time, than you can process efficiently, a lot more of it starts to feel like a sudden "HOLY CRAP!! WHAT'S THAT?!" event that suddenly leaps out at you. It's as sudden and unexpected to _that_ driver as their braking is to you.

In turn, part of that is also a result of people not leaving enough space between vehicles. If you leave the amount of space the experts say you're supposed to (and I was lucky enough to be trained by the founder of Young Drivers of Canada, former formula 1 driver Peter Christenson), then the braking of someone ahead of you only requires that you take your foot off the gas and cover your own brake, and not necessarily apply them. Makes your brake pads last longer, too. I know a big part of my own driving style is to try and situate myself equidistantly between the vehicle ahead and vehicle behind. Sometimes, in order to afford yourself that safe distance, you have to drive in a manner that prevents others from cutting in, and other times, there's nothing you can do to prevent stupidity, so you just have to hang back and let the idiots go by.

I've been in minor accidents, as driver, 4 times in my life, all happily without injury to anyone or serious damage. On all 4 occasions, I was stationary and someone hit me. Two of those were elderly drivers, one driving through a light with the descending sun staring her right in the eyes, and another backing up who had done a shoulder check, but _much_ longer ago than he thought he had. I wouldn't take anything away from the former's driving skills - I would have needed a bloody welder's mask to see clearly at that intersection the way the sun was. The other driver was lkely a careful one, but his sense of time, and mine, were decidedly different.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

laristotle said:


>


That is frickin' brilliant.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

indeed that safe distance was all I had in not ending up in her rear end, the transport behind me was my bigger worry for going into my own back end, and that stretch of road in Niagara Falls from Thorold Stone Road to the first bridge segment of the QEW didn't at the time have shoulders on either left or right side so no exit to the sides there. Young Drivers is a program I support so much I already have my 13 year old son on their mailing list LOL


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...i watched an elderly driver, at the corner of bloor and st george, hit the gas instead of the brake while he was in reverse. he did significant damage to my car, as well as a bike, a mailbox and some newspaper bins. then he tried to deny it!!!


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...has anyone else noticed that most agressive drivers seem to be behind the wheel of either a vw or a bmw?


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I've usually seen them behind the wheels of old hondas and acuras, with rust, because they are so pissed they can't afford better.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Morkolo said:


> The best part about parking away from everyone else is you have less chances of someone damaging your vehicle. My Mom works in one of the local malls and the amount of dents, scrapes, gouges etc. is beyond ridiculous and it's all from customers carelessly parking their vehicles in the parking lot or unloading their shopping carts and just pushing them to the side.


I always park way out by myself in the parking lots. The wife hates it. Conversely when I used to stay in the states the one dude I used to share the condo with used to do all the driving whenever we went out at night. He would spend whatever amount of time it took to park as close to the store as possible. He would drive around in circles waiting for people to leave, at the same time as driving me nuts


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

david henman said:


> ...has anyone else noticed that most agressive drivers seem to be behind the wheel of either a vw or a bmw?





> I've usually seen them behind the wheels of old hondas and acuras, with rust, because they are so pissed they can't afford better.


Black trucks and SUVs. And often anything with 3 or more young men in it.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I always park way out by myself in the parking lots. The wife hates it. Conversely when I used to stay in the states the one dude I used to share the condo with used to do all the driving whenever we went out at night. He would spend whatever amount of time it took to park as close to the store as possible. He would drive around in circles waiting for people to leave, at the same time as driving me nuts


I do the same thing and my girlfriend hates it. We both have cars we bought at the same time though... and hers is covered in dings on the side from people opening doors into it etc, mine has none. So I will stick with my plan.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I hope none of you guys are the ones that park on an angle in the parking lots in order to block anyone from parking next to them. I love those guys, I pull in to within a half inch of them, hopefully someone does the same on the other side


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...has anyone else noticed that most agressive drivers seem to be behind the wheel of either a vw or a bmw?


From what I have seen:
1. Kia
2. Hyundai
3. Honda
4. Minivan
5. Pickup
6. VW
7. BMW
8. The rest dont really stand out like the above............


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Accept2 said:


> From what I have seen:
> 1. Kia
> 2. Hyundai
> 3. Honda
> ...


Really? I notice anyone driving SUV's to be the worst offenders personally by a long shot. I definitely don't notice a trend with Hyundai's and Kias. I drive a Hyundai, so I would be likely to notice as I notice them anyway.

What I always wonder about is what people learn in drivers training now. I took YOung Drivers of Canada when I was 15 (early 90's), and it was regarded as the best training at the time and you used to get a better insurance discount for it. It's shocking to me how my friends who are the same age as me and took other drivers training don't know a fraction of what I learned.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> Really? I notice anyone driving SUV's to be the worst offenders personally by a long shot. I definitely don't notice a trend with Hyundai's and Kias. I drive a Hyundai, so I would be likely to notice as I notice them anyway.
> 
> What I always wonder about is what people learn in drivers training now. I took YOung Drivers of Canada when I was 15 (early 90's), and it was regarded as the best training at the time and you used to get a better insurance discount for it. It's shocking to me how my friends who are the same age as me and took other drivers training don't know a fraction of what I learned.


The most popular SUVs are Hyundais........

In Germany it takes about 3 years and about $10,000 to get your license. It would be nice to have those standards here, but people would whine about the costs of all the courses required. Besides they dont need winter driving training, they are already experts apparently.........


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Accept2 said:


> The most popular SUVs are Hyundais........
> 
> In Germany it takes about 3 years and about $10,000 to get your license. It would be nice to have those standards here, but people would whine about the costs of all the courses required. Besides they dont need winter driving training, they are already experts apparently.........


Here's a chart of SUV's sales. I had no idea Hyundai SUV's were so popular. Still, this chart echos what I see. Way more Ford and Honda SUV's. http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2012/03/top-10-best-selling-suvs-in-canada.html . The Ford drivers are the worst offenders IMO, but again it's just opinion on personal observation. DIfferent for everyone.

RE training, I would care if it was done right.... graduated licensing in Ontario is just a cash grab sham though. The drivers aren't being trained any better through it.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

I had a NEW CAR once. Long long ago now. I was anal about it (as only bipolar people can get that anal) that I would park in the exact most precisely empty area of any parking lot. I got my NEW BRIGHT WHITE CAR and went on to have a life with it. First stop was for some dinner, parking in the most emptiest part of the parkinglot hiking the hours walk to the shop, hiking back to the car again and there in the MIDDLE OF MY DRIVERS SIDE DOOR was the dent ... not a small dent I could have made love to that dent it was so big so deep and SO VERY FULL OF RED PAINT I could see it a mile off. When I got to my car it was still parked as I had left it, still surrounded by the same amount of empty but now it sat there car raped :C and I wept for her.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...i think we'll just have to assume that you're joking. otherwise, well...never mind...


I guess what I meant was: what we interpret as crazy driving can be totally normal & acceptable in other cultures, and gets carried over when ppl move here...didn't meant to be racist/assume they're all foreigners etc

although there are a lot of frickin idiots in the world...and most of them have licenses. I guess that accounts for the rest. or at least everyone on the other side of the windshield


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## -mbro- (Apr 3, 2010)

I'm from a small town in bc and moved to Montreal 3 years ago and was initially disgusted by the accepted driving style here. Everyone speeds on certain roads because ridiculously low speed limits. Like 100 in a 70 zone. If you do the limit on those roads in heavy traffic people are gonna get pissed.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

MTO cutting road test backlog by shortening road tests


New, temporary G-class road test eliminates 'duplicative' aspects from G2 test, including parallel parking, 3-point turns




torontosun.com




_Ontario’s Transport Ministry is shortening the final road test required to earn a full driver’s licence in the province, the Toronto Sun has learned — including eliminating the need to demonstrate ‘imperative’ manoeuvres to the instructor, such as three-point turns, roadside stops, and parallel parking. _









'WORST SUMMER I'VE SEEN': Truckers call on province to improve safety, training


Fed up over what they describe as carnage on Ontario roads, a group of concerned truck drivers are urging the province to take action.




torontosun.com




_Despite loud and desperate calls from both the public and industry, new transport truck drivers continue to be put behind the wheel of fully-loaded vehicles and expected to rely on their training to make it to their destination safely._

_The only problem, McDougall said, is that new driver training continues to emphasize passing the MTO’s road test rather than teaching them the skills they need to survive._


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I wonder what the actual compliance percentage is for coming to complete stops at stop signs or at red lights before turning right.

I don't have any data so I won't spout off a number, but if it's higher than 20% I would be very surprised.

I was once pulled over and warned many years ago and I thought at that time that I had indeed stopped.

After that I changed my habit to ensure nobody could ever make a borderline call on me again. I stop and then wait at least a full second, not enough to have people behind me honking, but no doubt a complete stop.

Most people here seem to roll right through them, especially if there are no other cars at the intersection.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I see a lot of people around Toronto dive bomb the intersection on a red to make a right turn while the traffic coming from their left on the green has started to roll. Sometimes see one do it and then another one right after them so they really force their way into the traffic stream and everyone has to slow to let them in. Same with cars turning left on an advance green; the last two or three will keep coming even though the light against them is red and cars coming from the opposite direction are already moving. As for stop signs, a lot of people don’t even slow down for them.

Edit: I didn’t read much more than a few lines but I saw an article in the post just now saying that goldfish can drive a vehicle but some of them are not very good at it. So if that’s the case do we really need to even have a test for human drivers; Just turn them loose, some will get eaten by gravel trucks and some won’t.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

In my city, there's a been a war on cars the last 10 years and it's making me think to move. Drivers are more impatient for sure, probably because there's just more of them - and our road quality has gone to hell. Newly paved roads are worse than the old ones they repair. IMO, that's done purposely to act as natural speed bumps.

On those days I do commute, I've switched to earlier work hours and that's much better. The difference in car volume between 6:30am and 7:30am is about 15x w/ a comparable rise in temperament.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Wardo said:


> I see a lot of people around Toronto dive bomb the intersection on a red to make a right turn while the traffic coming from their left on the green has started to roll. Sometimes see one do it and then another one right after them so they really force their way into the traffic stream and everyone has to slow to let them in. Same with cars turning left on an advance green; the last two or three will keep coming even though the light against them is red and cars coming from the opposite direction are already moving. As for stop signs, a lot of people don’t even slow down for them.
> 
> Edit: I didn’t read much more than a few lines but I saw an article in the post just now saying that goldfish can drive a vehicle but some of them are not very good at it. So if that’s the case do we really need to even have a test for human drivers; Just turn them loose, some will get eaten by gravel trucks and some won’t.


These people must be from BC, not sure about the fish.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Saw my post from 10 years ago and nothing has improved.

People are stupid when it comes to parking. 

There's a gravel and grass municipal parking lot next door to my place up north. Such as it is, there are no lines or signs to direct folks how to park, though any sensible person would park along the perimeter fence, especially if there are other cars to set the example. Yet, often folks will park randomly in the middle of the lot, making it nigh on impossible for someone to maneuver around them, never mind a boat trailer or RV. I've heard more than one altercation ensue. Same thing happens at trailhead parking areas along the Bruce Trail. Seriously, if you don't know you're in the way you're either incredibly stupid or privileged beyond belief. 

Years ago when we lived down the street from a harness racing track and hockey arena, both sides of the street would be lined with parked vehicles on race and game nights, often blocking driveways, reducing the street to a single lane. Coming home from fishing one evening I was prevented from backing my boat trailer into my driveway by parked cars so I parked in the street, unhitched and threaded the trailer between cars by hand. A cop rolls up facing me and shouts out his window that I'm obstructing traffic. I respond, "Only southbound, you're obstructing traffic northbound." We both had a good laugh. I parked in a neighbour's driveway with permission. The cops wouldn't ticket anyone on race or game nights for fear of repercussions. Small town shit. Everyone's related somehow, by blood or otherwise.

Years later after I moved to a different neighbourhood, I jaywalked across my street to the bank, passing in front of a parked police cruiser. The cop motions me over to inform me, all self-righteous like, that I jaywalked on a busy street. I mockingly inform him in the same self-righteous tone that he's parked in front of a fire hydrant. He pauses, we laugh, I continue on my way.

Last complaint has to do with oncoming fuckers who don't yield any road on single lane and lane and a half gravel roads. Right down the centre of the road as if I'm invisible. If you can't drive without the painted line, take another route or surrender your license.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

LOL the GC rant spree continues


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Time to get serious about AI driven vehicles...humans are no longer collectively safe behind the wheel.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

jdto said:


> LOL the GC rant spree continues


Guilty!


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)




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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul Running said:


> View attachment 397025



How about if we rock it back and forth a little first.


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