# My Father In Law Traded In His Car



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

This is not really a story but we often discuss used cars and here's some actual numbers from a recent trade in.

My father in law accepted $12k for a 2016 Honda CR-V EX-L with 131k with no accidents from a Honda dealership. I've been watched their site and they finally listed it for $19k. He accepted a really bad deal and it goes to show you how low of an amount they will will offer you.

Last fall I told him it was probably worth about $14k as a trade in.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

If they go for 19 used at a dealer sell it yourself for 17.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

My father in law prefers to trade in.

Also keep in mind that if you trade a vehicle in for $12k, you're saving $1560 in tax on the new vehicle. So really you're going through all the hassle of selling privately for $40.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Way back I remember my father buying a new car and when the dealer found out he wasn't trading in his old car the price of the new one came down by 2 grand .. lol

A dealer buying for 12 and trying to get 19 doesn't seem out of line to me; it's business, I'd be doing the same thing.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Wardo said:


> Way back I remember my father buying a new car and when the dealer found out he wasn't trading in his old car the price of the new one came down by 2 grand .. lol
> 
> A dealer buying for 12 and trying to get 19 doesn't seem out of line to me; it's business, I'd be doing the same thing.


Yeah it's a great deal.....for them.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Wardo said:


> If they go for 19 used at a dealer sell it yourself for 17.





Guncho said:


> Also keep in mind that if you trade a vehicle in for $12k, you're saving $1560 in tax on the new vehicle. So really you're going through all the hassle of selling privately for $40.


There's a $3K difference in your equation.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

laristotle said:


> There's a $3K difference in your equation.


Yeah I was just thinking that. Bad math. I have always sold privately but my father in law doesn't want the headache.

So moral of the story, you will probably get more selling privately but don't forget the tax savings when trading in.

Anyway the point of my original post was dealers will seriously low ball you on trade ins.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Looks like the dealer paid 63% of what they figured they could get for it - that's a little better than Long and McQuade.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Wardo said:


> Looks like the dealer paid 63% of what they figured they could get for it - that's a little better than Long and McQuade.


I thought L&M paid 70%?


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Guncho said:


> I thought L&M paid 70%?


I think that is only if you bought the item from them; 60% otherwise.

Unless that is Cosmo; but either way it's about where trade in values are at.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Wardo said:


> I think that is only if you bought the item from them; 60% otherwise.
> 
> Unless that is Cosmo; but either way it's about where trade in values are at.


Brutal. For a car unless the difference is $1000 or less, I'm selling privately.


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## VHTO (Feb 19, 2016)

A dealership often makes more money on a used car sale than a new car sale, especially if the back office staff signs up the buyer for sub prime financing, added warranties etc.
If you have a private buyer lined up for your car, at a better price than the dealer will give you on trade, many dealers will run the transaction for you for a small fee.
Your buyer is no worse off and you are able to get the sales tax credit against the new vehicle 

Ever since Ontario went with the HST, there’s no longer the 5% tax advantage to buying privately


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Guncho said:


> This is not really a story but we often discuss used cars and here's some actual numbers from a recent trade in.
> 
> My father in law accepted $12k for a 2016 Honda CR-V EX-L with 131k with no accidents from a Honda dealership. I've been watched their site and they finally listed it for $19k. He accepted a really bad deal and it goes to show you how low of an amount they will will offer you.
> 
> Last fall I told him it was probably worth about $14k as a trade in.


You need to keep in mind that the dealership would need to spend money on the vehicle (very few trade-ins require less than $1000 worth of work) before they could put it on their lot (unless they're selling it as is) They also need to make a profit on the car as well as leaving room in the price for someone who will come in and offer them a couple thousand less than the asking price. The dealer is likely going to be $15k+ into that vehicle they're asking $19K for and hoping to get $18k all the while knowing every minute that car sits on their lot it's depreciating. It's really just a case where they're making a gamble on an unknown quantity so they try to be into it for as little as possible.

Allow me to share an anecdote that happened with a friend of mine 2 weeks ago. He was trading his vehicle in. The trade in would be worth about $6-7k safetied, ready to go. He was offered, and took $4k. The vehicle will require $5k worth or work to ever see the road again. So the dealer took a complete bath on that one. Win some, lose some and all that jazz.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Wardo said:


> Way back I remember my father buying a new car and when the dealer found out he wasn't trading in his old car the price of the new one came down by 2 grand .. lol
> 
> A dealer buying for 12 and trying to get 19 doesn't seem out of line to me; it's business, I'd be doing the same thing.


Yup - they buy it for 12, spend 1 or 2 getting it ready to sell, list it for 19 and eventually sell it for 17. A lot less markup than your average sofa.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Guncho said:


> Anyway the point of my original post was dealers will seriously low ball you on trade ins.


just remember , no one put a gun to his head and said "sign"

if he had looked up the value and negotiated a bit better , he would have gotten more.
Canadian Used Car and Truck Prices | Wholesale and Retail Values


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

If he owns his house, it went up enough last month to make up the difference.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

It’s possible they spent some money getting it ready for the used lot (tires, brakes, battery)


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

It was a well maintained 2016 vehicle. I changed the battery myself a year ago. I doubt they did more than a bit of detailing. I suppose tires are a possibility.

Anyway my point was don't take the first amount they offer you.

I'm also kicking myself that I didn't buy it off him at a fair price. I want a newer car but newer than 2016.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

used cars are selling pretty quick in our parts at the moment. private sale is the way to go


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

In 2010 I bought a new F150 XLT with an 8 in it. Window sticker was $36K and I got it cash for $20K at the end of the year. When I put a deposit on it they hadn't built it yet so it arrived with about 14km delivery mileage basically just on and off the train. XLT is a nice enough trim level for a truck and they are over $40K now. I'm kicking myself that I didn't buy two and keep one in low rotation just enough to exercise it now and again because now I'm faced with getting an F250 for the engine, steering box and tranny option that I want but I don't need a 250 just to get me around the town.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

go ahead ... you need it anyway .


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

maybe need to rethink investment strategies to not involve vehicles, especially ten year old mass produced Ford trucks.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Cost nothing to run that thing for 10 years except tires and brakes.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

basically free


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

As vehicles go, pretty much; can't complain.


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## fogdart (Mar 22, 2017)

Honda dealership gave my late Grandmother $3k for a 6 year old Civic with only 28,000km on it. Never winter driven, garage stored, driven by an old lady in a small town. She’d taken the vehicle in for an oil change and the service desk told her that the brake lines had rusted out and that it was unsafe to drive. They conned her into a new vehicle by scaring her into thinking hers wasn’t safe.

I’m a car guy. The thing was mint, dealer maintained, not a spec or rust anywhere.

My dad and I paid an unannounced visit to the dealership two days later - car was already gone. We suspect an employee scooped it. Similar vehicles were on the lot for $15-17k.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Trades are tricky with dealers and car deals. They're either going to get you on the trade or the price of the new vehicle. One or the other. 

Monetarily, yes in most cases you are going to do better selling it yourself than trading it in. HOWEVER, there are a couple of factors that may make trading it more preferable depending on your situation and disposition:

1) Convenience. I drive my old car onto the car lot, and I drive out with a brand new car. Done. No owning two cars at the same time while the old one sells, or having a gap with no car because I sold my old one before the new one could be delivered. 
2) Selling a vehicle is work. And most of the time its a pain in the ass. Not sure what the process is in most provinces, but in MB you'll usually want to take it to a garage and get a safety inspection certificate ("Safety"). You can sell it without a Safety but typically you're going to take a massive hit on the selling price by doing so. Then you have to list it. And then wait for people to respond. And then you have to deal with all the lowballers and tire kickers. Plus people coming by to check it out and test drive it. Think about what a pain selling a large piece of music gear is most of the time. This is worse. My brother and sister in law bought a new vehicle last summer and decided to sell their 2016 Santa Fe themselves. That thing took 3 months to sell. 
3) The condition of your old vehicle can be a factor. In OP's situation the old vehicle was a 2016 and probably in pretty decent shape. However the last vehicle I traded in was an 08 Dodge Magnum. It was 8 years old at the time and it was starting to have some issues. There was definitely an electrical problem somewhere (and those are horrible to trace down and solve) where one of the brake lights stopped working. And it wasn't a bulb or the housing - I swapped them out and it still was a problem. There were a few other issues that were lingering and had I taken it for a Safety it would have failed. That would mean I have to dump money into fixing the car before I can list it OR I have to sell it without safety and lose thousands of dollars. 

So for some people the few thousand bucks you extra you come away with selling your old vehicle privately just is not worth the time and hassle. OK, so the dealer is asking $19K for the 2016 Honda that they gave OP's dad $12K for. Give the tax differential it really was more like $14K. And are they going to sell it for $19K? Probably not. That's their ask, but they'll probably get bargained down at least a couple thousand. So they get $17K. Also consider they have to safety and certify the vehicle, clean it, and the overhead and cost of doing business - did they make THAT much money on it?


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Trades are tricky with dealers and car deals. They're either going to get you on the trade or the price of the new vehicle. One or the other.
> 
> Monetarily, yes in most cases you are going to do better selling it yourself than trading it in. HOWEVER, there are a couple of factors that may make trading it more preferable depending on your situation and disposition:
> 
> ...


Yeah my line is $1000. If the difference between trading in and selling privately is $1000, I'll trade it in for sure.

Let's say all they had to do to the vehicle was clean it. Then yes I do think they made that much money on it. I think my father in law should have gotten like $13,500.

Also interesting but from what he told me of the two dealerships he talked to about trading up, not one of them inspected his vehicle.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

This is not much of a story. Hopefully if you have kids you don't bore them to sleep at storytelling time.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Guncho said:


> Yeah my line is $1000. If the difference between trading in and selling privately is $1000, I'll trade it in for sure.
> 
> Let's say all they had to do to the vehicle was clean it. Then yes I do think they made that much money on it. I think my father in law should have gotten like $13,500.
> 
> Also interesting but from what he told me of the two dealerships he talked to about trading up, not one of them inspected his vehicle.


That's interesting. The Magnum I traded in it wasn't much of an inspection. The sales manager took it for a quick test drive. That was it. 

I've done deals both with a trade and without. I will say that dealing without a trade is an easier bargaining experience. Because you only have one variable to deal with - the price of the new vehicle. 

I'm guessing your father in law didn't negotiate the trade in value. That's a mistake as there is definitely room to move. They have a blue book value and that has a range. They will always start by offering the minimum.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

LanceT said:


> This is not much of a story. Hopefully if you have kids you don't bore them to sleep at storytelling time.


Once upon a time my father in law decided to trade in his car and buy a new one. He took the first offer they gave him. The end.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> I'm guessing your father in law didn't negotiate the trade in value. That's a mistake as there is definitely room to move. They have a blue book value and that has a range. They will always start by offering the minimum.


 I would say not always. The last couple of cars we have traded were never going hit the dealer's lot since they only keep cars a year or two old, mine was five. They simply called their used car broker with only a cursory walkaround inspection, I don't even think they started them and got a number and that was it. Any negotiation, of which there was little, came on price. I got lucky because my car was looking at 5-7K of maintenance work to keep it in good shape and as much as I loved the vehicle, I wasn't going spend that much.


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## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

fogdart said:


> Honda dealership gave my late Grandmother $3k for a 6 year old Civic with only 28,000km on it. Never winter driven, garage stored, driven by an old lady in a small town. She’d taken the vehicle in for an oil change and the service desk told her that the brake lines had rusted out and that it was unsafe to drive. They conned her into a new vehicle by scaring her into thinking hers wasn’t safe.
> 
> I’m a car guy. The thing was mint, dealer maintained, not a spec or rust anywhere.
> 
> My dad and I paid an unannounced visit to the dealership two days later - car was already gone. We suspect an employee scooped it. Similar vehicles were on the lot for $15-17k.


Did your late grandmother know you are a car guy? This unfortunate situation "sounds" like it was avoidable. I hate hearing about seniors getting taken.


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## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

LanceT said:


> This is not much of a story. Hopefully if you have kids you don't bore them to sleep at storytelling time.


Kind of agree. OP, you're not really offering anything of substance here.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

numb41 said:


> Kind of agree. OP, you're not really offering anything of substance here.


POST FAIL!


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## alphasports (Jul 14, 2008)

I'll add my boring story: normally I'm a lease guy, every 4-5 years trade back to Toyota and get a new one, charge it to my (own) company. This winter I intended to do the same with my 2016 Venza Ltd AWD with 105k kms (nice car, about 50k+ now). Until I checked the prices of new that is. Dunno WTH has happened in the last 18 months (pre covid) but prices have blasted thru the stratosphere. I spent a couple weeks building a list of candidates, Toyota and others, but in almost every scenario the same or similar vehicles were now about 40% more expensive (ex: RAV4 for $800 a month???? WTF???). That, plus I frankly didn't feel like dumping mine, but it was at lease-end. So, in an unusual move I actually read my lease contract and found I could buyout for 14k, and market price for the car is 23-25k, so I bought it outright and plan to drive it at least another 2 years then sell it for 100% or more of what I just paid. If I had traded it in, instead of it going to auction like off-leases normally do I'm sure the dealer would have bought it out and sold it on the lot the next day for 27k, it's in perfect shape always dealer-maintained (ok not always at the dealer, just enough to have a service history on their books...I'm not THAT stupid haha!).

That is all. You can all wake up now.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I would have to agree. No offence intended but a story about a car dealership offering a low trade in value and then pricing the used car significantly higher isn’t exactly BIG news. I can understand how you clearly have a personal interest in this...but your personal interest didn’t exactly motivate you to take a more active role (not that it’s your responsibility). Buyers often negotiate the price of the new car but less often negotiate the price of their trade in.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

The point of my post was show some actual numbers from a recent trade in situation. We often talk about buying and selling cars here so I just wanted to add some factual numbers from a recent experience to the conversation.

That's it.

Sorry it wasn't revelatory or exciting enough for you.

EDIT I redid the title so maybe it's less false advertising now.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

I think these kind of things are a good discussion. 

If you're bored and don't enjoy the content of the post then maybe just scroll past and don't come in and crap all over someone's perfectly fine thread just because it didn't turn your crank.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

My mom traded her 1990 (I think) Mazda 626 on a Protege in 1995. She was shocked that the dealer was selling her old car for more than she got in trade. I said "well, they have to make some money on the sale -- you get wholesale, they sell retail." She had no idea.

Of course my last two attempts at trade ended with "yeah, we're not really interested in trading for (sneers with derision)....._that_." I didn't understand on the Mazda, totally understood on my piece of s%^t BMW. It was a gong show both times trying to sell privately, and both cars were worth less than $4K, with the Mazda safetied after some work, the BMW not. I am not much interested in that kind of effort for so little gain.

Of course, had I known that my new (to me) car would end up close to parked for over a year, I might not have sold the Mazda.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Mojo sent.


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

My father in law have a 2014 CR-V. I don't know the exact specs and numbers but the dealer where I bought it and where he does all his maintenance keep calling him to buy it since there's a hi demand for those. Are they rare or good buy on the used market? I don't know. But maybe your father in law could have more money by selling it himself.

On the other hand, I am exacly like him. I hate dealin with people when selling stuff and I would totally prefer a trade in, get my new car and be done with it.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I'm going through this process right now. I fucking hate buying cars and selling them. I don't care if it's a civic or a merc - get me the fuck outta there.

I told a dealer yesterday that I hate trucks (I currently drive) and I don't enjoy shopping around. He had absolutely nothing to say about it, expectedly.

Do any of you get buyer's remorse, or just look at your new cars and think, 'Ugh'? I do it every time.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Ti-Ron said:


> My father in law have a 2014 CR-V. I don't know the exact specs and numbers but the dealer where I bought it and where he does all his maintenance keep calling him to buy it since there's a hi demand for those. Are they rare or good buy on the used market? I don't know. But maybe your father in law could have more money by selling it himself.
> 
> On the other hand, I am exacly like him. I hate dealin with people when selling stuff and I would totally prefer a trade in, get my new car and be done with it.



I have a 2015 Honda CRV Touring which is the top trim level. About 3 different times I was contacted by the Honda dealership that they wanted my vehicle because they are in high demand. I went in a couple of times but ended up walking away. Its just a scam to get you to buy a new vehicle. They're discounting the vehicle far below its market value and bumping the price a couple thousand above what you could probably negotiate with out a trade. I buy my vehicles brand new and drive them in to the ground so I wasn't desperate and they couldn't get me excited about a new vehicle, which is what they try to do to cloud your judgement. When I do buy a new vehicle I block all their tactics at hiding the true cost of the vehicle such as getting me focused on a monthly payment. I tell them don't worry about what it costs monthly, give me the bottom line and I'll worry about what it costs per month. I'm usually about 3 hours in the dealership negotiating and I usually time it to be end of the year, between mid November, end of December when they're motivated. When I negotiated the Honda CRV I was able to get about $6,000 off of list as I took the one they had on the lot, it was about December 20. It came right down to me negotiating in an expensive set of car mats worth about $300. It came down to that very detail and the sales guy says to me "You're going to walk over a set of car mats"? I said to him "You're going to let me walk over a set of car mats"? He went to his manager and came back a few minutes later said you got the mats. 
I hate the car buying process which is why I usually buy new and just drive it in to the ground so I'm only buying a vehicle every 5 to 8 years (My wifes vehicle and mine) which I try to drive them for about 10 to 12 years. Since I'm retiring in about 5 years the 2 vehicles I have now will probably be my last brand new ones. I'll be buying used in retirement. If this pandemic lasts a few years my vehicles are going to probably last longer than usual. The last year and a half my vehicle I've put about maybe 8k on.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Adcandour said:


> Do any of you get buyer's remorse, or just look at your new cars and think, 'Ugh'? I do it every time.


Not necessarily remorse but vacillate between love the new car excitement and holy crap how much did I just spend


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Ti-Ron said:


> My father in law have a 2014 CR-V. I don't know the exact specs and numbers but the dealer where I bought it and where he does all his maintenance keep calling him to buy it since there's a hi demand for those. Are they rare or good buy on the used market? I don't know. But maybe your father in law could have more money by selling it himself.
> 
> On the other hand, I am exacly like him. I hate dealin with people when selling stuff and I would totally prefer a trade in, get my new car and be done with it.


There might be. The newer versions have a 1.5L turbo that has many complaints about low or no heat in winter. Possible class action lawsuit. The engine is so efficient that when idling it doesn't produce enough heat to defrost windows.
The older models don't have that problem.
On the lot I see used 2016s and 2019s at almost the same price.


As for trading in... did it once. But i drive my cars into the ground so when they offered me $800 for a 10 year old Mazda 6 with rust, bad brakes, and an engine light always on, i took it.
Previous "trade in" was a 2002 Chev Venture van for $300 cash at the wrecking yard up the road. No dealer would take it in trade! Outright no.
I biked home, and swore to never buy a GM product again, and I never will not even a truck.
We replaced it with a Honda that has done 100k more kms with fewer repairs and has nothing wrong with it at 270,000km, and maybe $5k in repairs over 10 years.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

We have a Chev/Olds dealer here in Gan that run TV ads during the local news and I chuckle every time they announce "Used car prices are at an all time high! Come see us NOW for _outstanding_ trade-in values." My wife gets similar messages from the Ford dealer that sold her a used car several years ago, stating "We are contacting you because the global demand for _2012 Nissan Versas_ is at an all time high and we'd like to help you profit from this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity!!!"

Regarding _real_ trade-in offers though, in the past when I've needed a decent used vehicle I've put the word out to friends & family that I was looking. In cases where they were considering a new car purchase involving a trade-in, I simply asked that they let me know what they had and what the dealer was offering. If it was a yr/make/model of interest I could offer them _at least as much_ in cash for their vehicle, which they could use to leverage a better purchase deal. I've done it a few times and it's worked out well. Total Win-Win.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Ti-Ron said:


> My father in law have a 2014 CR-V. I don't know the exact specs and numbers but the dealer where I bought it and where he does all his maintenance keep calling him to buy it since there's a hi demand for those. Are they rare or good buy on the used market? I don't know. But maybe your father in law could have more money by selling it himself.
> 
> On the other hand, I am exacly like him. I hate dealin with people when selling stuff and I would totally prefer a trade in, get my new car and be done with it.


I get these same requests from my dealer to trade in my 2013 Elantra. Don’t kid yourself. There’s nothing special or rare about your car. It’s ALL about selling you a new car in a way that doesn’t sound like a sales call.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

ZeroGravity said:


> Not necessarily remorse but vacillate between love the new car excitement and holy crap how much did I just spend


I usually say to myself, "you know you're just not going to care about this thing in about a month, so why'd you do it?"


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Then drive that truck into the ground? I dunno.

We all know cars are money pits and dealerships are businesses designed to make money.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

tomee2 said:


> The engine is so efficient that when idling it doesn't produce enough heat to defrost windows.


welcome to the world of diesels (same problem )


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> I think these kind of things are a good discussion.
> 
> If you're bored and don't enjoy the content of the post then maybe just scroll past and don't come in and crap all over someone's perfectly fine thread just because it didn't turn your crank.


The original post was dull, the OP admitted as such. You however, are making it more lively so good work.


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## alphasports (Jul 14, 2008)

Adcandour said:


> I'm going through this process right now. I fucking hate buying cars and selling them. I don't care if it's a civic or a merc - get me the fuck outta there.
> 
> I told a dealer yesterday that I hate trucks (I currently drive) and I don't enjoy shopping around. He had absolutely nothing to say about it, expectedly.
> 
> Do any of you get buyer's remorse, or just look at your new cars and think, 'Ugh'? I do it every time.


Once upon a time I liked getting a new car, now it's just a PITA (more or less). Much prefer getting worked up over a new guitar, bike, moto maybe...something fun. After 10 or 20 cars or more you kind of start to realize that whether Ford or Ferrari it gets old in about a month, but you still have to keep paying.


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