# What happens as tone wood ages?



## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

I keep hearing statements like: "Wait until it ages and opens up..." related to acoustic instruments. I have a late 70's Sigma (Japanese Martin) that coincidentally sounds as good as anything newer that I own, so I can't dispute the statement. But, I am curious as to what happens to wood as it ages that contributes to this phenomena?

Admnin's: If this should be in the luthier section, then please move it.

Thanks
Swervin:smile:


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Well, as one famous luthier once said "it takes a while before the wood realizes it isn't a tree anymore".

Although wood is generally well seasoned before a builder uses it in an instrument, the wood itself continues to change in moisture content, cell structure and chemical composition. The amount or degree of change, and more importantly how that represents a change in feel and sound, is somewhat different from species to species and even from guitar to guitar. Most folks also believe that you need to play a guitar a lot to get full benefit from the process.

I believe it happens, even though I have never been able to demonstrate proof. I won't buy an instrument with the hope that it was going to get a lot better, but would expect some change, given lots of time and playing.


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## speedster (Nov 11, 2009)

Lots of good explanations over on the Martin guitar forum from luthiers and scientists.

something to do with cell changes of the wood and hardening...

My D28 definately has changed in the 10 years I've owned it, slowly but surely it started to open up and now sounds pretty darn good.

Was alway large but lacked the bottom mid's however it was even across the board and clear when I bought it and was told by many it would open up.

didn't expect it would take 10 or more years but hey its there now...

Trouble is I now love the sound of my D18GE mahogony guitar and never go near the Rosewoods anymore....

Go figure...


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

speedster said:


> Lots of good explanations over on the Martin guitar forum from luthiers and scientists.
> 
> something to do with cell changes of the wood and hardening...
> 
> ...


Seeing how you are throwing it out.... 

Great quote Ronmac


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

*Here is a bit*

This will help some to explain wood as it is and as it ages.
http://www.cumpiano.com/Home/Articles/Articles/wood.html
Ship


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

as tonewood ages, it learns to play with the other woods.
it goes to school, gets an education, becomes mature and eventually gets a job and moves out on its own.
sooner or later tonewood, meets that special someone and decides to settle down. :smile:


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## zeebee (Nov 2, 2008)

six-string said:


> as tonewood ages, it learns to play with the other woods.
> it goes to school, gets an education, becomes mature and eventually gets a job and moves out on its own.
> sooner or later tonewood, meets that special someone and decides to settle down. :smile:


You forgot to mention it moves back home a few times before staying out for good.....gets tired of having its ass kicked out the door I suppose. :sport-smiley-002:


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

*Thanks for all of the replies*

Ronmac: nice guitars....really nice guitars! (Acoustic Lovers Social Group album)


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Thanks. It's a sickness....


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

I see the picture collection is growing nicely in the Social Group.

http://guitarscanada.com/group.php?do=grouppictures&groupid=14


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## Mike MacLeod (Nov 27, 2006)

I have a number of old '20s to 60s Martins, Gibsons, Epis, etc and they all have a couple of common traits. 1. They sound fantastic. 2. they seem to be light in weight. (moisture content??) 3. Someone has put a lot of great playing into them (not me) 




Jeff Flowerday said:


> I see the picture collection is growing nicely in the Social Group.
> 
> http://guitarscanada.com/group.php?do=grouppictures&groupid=14


I promise, that when I get back from the ukulele cruise, I'll take some pics and post them.


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## JohnEsmokes (Sep 9, 2009)

I think it's mostly hogwash about sound getting better over time. If you're waiting around for your guitar to "open up" you might as well sell it and buy something that already sounds good. A guitar should sound great the moment you play it. Don't buy a Martin and say - Ohhh it will open up over time. Bullshit. If it doesn't sound great don't bring it home. People have to get beyond the NAME on the headstock and realize that it's what comes alive in your ears that matters.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

I'll have to disagree with you on this one. I have experienced this too many times on guitars that I have purchased new and kept for several years to think of it as "bullshit". I think of it more like "BONUS". It also has nothing to do with the name on the headstock. I have never purchased a guitar hoping that it would sound like something else as it grew older.


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## JohnEsmokes (Sep 9, 2009)

Hey Ron that's you and good for not falling for the trap. But so many other players buy the NAME because they think they must have it and then WAIT for it to open. If your sound gets better over years then that's excellent. Personally I believe in the here and now and expect results immediately. btw - I mean no offence to those who disagree and I think a good debate is healthy.


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## GuitarPix (Jan 11, 2007)

I know my acoustics have become more resonant as I've played them over the years. There is a definite difference between mine and going to play a brand spanking new one in the store. Tidbits for you: many of the cheaper Japanese (and I'm sure korean, north american, etc) guitars are supposedly put on racks with mechanical arms strumming the guitars with picks for a few days before shipment. Luthier to the stars Linda Manzer apparently (according to a couple of friends who've gotten her guitars) puts a batch of "just about to be delivered" guitars into a big closet with a loud stereo for a weekend before shipping them out. 

I would agree that buying a guitar and "hoping" it'll sound better is like buying "name" shoes that don't fit and hoping they feel better with time. Waste of money. The guitar (and shoes) have to fit you now. But its nice to hear them improve with age. Mmm, now I'm thinking some older scotch also sounds good right now.


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## JohnEsmokes (Sep 9, 2009)

GuitarPix said:


> I would agree that buying a guitar and "hoping" it'll sound better is like buying "name" shoes that don't fit and hoping they feel better with time. Waste of money. The guitar (and shoes) have to fit you now. But its nice to hear them improve with age. Mmm, now I'm thinking some older scotch also sounds good right now.


That's exactly how I look at it. It absolutely must sound great upon purchase. Look at all the best players in the world right now - most of them are playing newer instruments. Sure old guitars are great and some develop nice warm tones but they must sound great to begin with in order to be worth a purchase.


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