# Dissapointing (kind of eye opening) day guitar shopping



## pickslide (May 9, 2006)

I have wanted to go shopping for a new Strat for a while, so today I decided to hit a few stores and see what happens. I have bought all of me other guitars used online and I figured that it would be nice to get something without having to worry about shipping, customs, getting a dud, etc. So I headed to (in no particular order) Long and Mcquade, Guitarworks, Music Center Canada and Axe Music. 

Now without going into details about any store in particular, I must say that I was quite disappointed with all of them. I found the overall selection of both guitars and amps to be OK at best. I will say that Guitarworks by far has the best selection of amps....but that is a discussion for another time. 

At pretty much each store, the selection of Strats was sad. Once store did have a decent selection, so I did get to try out a couple of american standard strats, a road worn and a 70's reissue. I liked the 70's quite a bit, but the price of $1700 was pretty crazy. I thought that the am standard neck was too thin. I did like the road worn neck...in fact I think that I liked it better than all the others, but man the fret edges were so rough that it almost hurt my hand to play. I have seriously never seen anything like that before...and this is a brand new guitar that costs $1000! So then I tried to road worn tele and the frets were exactly the same! How can Fender justify charging $1k for such terrible worksmanship?

On a side note, I also tried a couple of Epiphone 335's and a Sheraton. Sound wise they were OK and the quality on the Sheraton was OK, but again, a $1000 guitar...not worth it at all IMHO. On all of the epiphones the frets were rough, but not nearly as bad as the fender, but the thing that really annoyed me was that all of the vol and tone knobs were crooked and put on in a very haphazard way. So much so that they were easily turned past 1 or 10 and it annoyed the hell out of me. I even told the salesman and he seemed surprized, but I think he was more shocked that somebody actually told him about it more than anything else. 

Anyhoo, that is my rant. I am now satisfied with purchasing online because the selection in this city is pretty poor and the price difference from buying used online is so significant that I don't think that I will ever buy a new guitar again (well maybe not never). 

One last note, I did get to play a Gibson Bloomfield LP which was really nice, but $8K. 

Ok, I'm done.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

with the really great experiences I've had buying used - I too would be hard pressed to actually buy new again


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## sivs (Aug 5, 2009)

If you ever get the chance to come down to Lethbridge, check out Lucky Star guitars. It's a little hole in the wall shop but they guys there are awesome - everything is used or vintage and they've got some really unique stuff. They've only got about 30 guitars out at a time, but they've got another 30 in cases, so if you're looking for something in particular they're great for that.

I agree though, I've bought used and (some) online for all of my electrics and have been nothing but happy.


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## astyles (Apr 6, 2009)

you're not alone... as you can tell, I live in our beloved capital of Canada and, like yourself, went out just as recently as this past weekend to shop for a new axe. They have some good shops here, but I find it's rare that you'll find something unique. Instead, I usually get ideas of what I would like from these shops, get some pro feedback, then end up purchasing it online (Axe), used (Kijiji) and/or from a local shop here (Spaceman Music) that sells used gear for much cheaper and still in great shape most of the time !


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

About the frets - it's December in Calgary, wood is drying out. The humidy drops around October and this is right around the time that it really starts to show. The smaller of the two stores where I work had a major filing day last week to catch up on all of the acoustics. Electrics will probably get filed this week. The larger of the two stores where I work pulls guitars when a problem is noticed and usually has them fixed and back out within a couple of days. It's something that shops in our climate really need to keep up on and this is the worst time of year for that. 

At the start of your post I felt a little disapointed that neither of the places where I work were listed, but after reading it I'm glad we weren't.


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## Duster (Dec 28, 2007)

The experience you're describing is generally true for most retail in Canada. The fact is our retail establishments are not known for their excellence. We have convinced ourselves that we're a small market, so it isn't worth holding inventory. We should have very little stock and variety, our prices should be a bit higher than anywhere else, and we should have low expectations regarding customer service.

This attitude of mediocrity pervades the vast majority of retail operations, be it for guitars, motorcycles, cars, or any other consumer goods. I understand there's an economic reality underlying it, but expecting consumers to pay more or get less because of that, doesn't help fix the problem. It just drives more and more people elsewhere to make their purchases.

I'm not trying to malign any particular retailer, and particularly not those mentioned in this thread. I wish them all the success in the world.

But when I was looking for my strat, I wanted a G&L Legacy. The local shop never bothered to call me back with a price, despite my inquiring, in the store, 3 times. Other Toronto shops quoted me prices over $500 more than what I would pay if I bought American, and with a delivery time several months longer. Really, they didn't even give themselves a chance.

If you're looking for strats, and would consider a G&L, try Guitar Adoptions. They have an extremely well run operation.

--- D


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## Allfingers (Oct 27, 2009)

It was two years ago I bought my nephew a Strat at Guitarworks on 16th Ave. in Calgary (store just recently closed). The salesperson was excellent and mentioned the frets...he told us to bring it back in a few weeks for a fret adjustment...which we did. We were even told to do it a second same if any issue.

I don't think the fret issue is a sign of poor quality as much as 'the nature of the beast' and measures should be offered to take care of it.

In general I find the stores in Calgary have good staff. My nephew is only 19 he has a million questions but isn't dismissed. I tell him to research what he wants to know before he goes in so that he he can get right to the point on a question about a pedal, amp, etc.

When it's 20c below we like to visit a guitar store...play a dozen guitars and like to leave buying at least a few sets of strings, a strap or whatever...and will return when we want to make a larger purchase.


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## pickslide (May 9, 2006)

Interesting about the frets. I never thought about that. I guess I was so shocked at the road worn fenders in particular. Other guitars I tried were nowhere near that bad. I did not ask if they would do something if I actually bought the guitar, but I am not going to pay $1K for a MIM strat. 

Of the 4 stores I went to, Guitarworks had very good customer service, but the others just ignored me.


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## rockinbluesfan (Mar 3, 2008)

You think that's bad try looking for a decent lefty to try. Pretty well all stores might have an epi or squire or some other low end makes tucked away in the corner!


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Ahhhh, the good old days when Larry managed Long & Mcquade Calgary, how I miss them!

Makes me want to travel to Nanaimo to go buy gear...


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I was at Axe a couple weeks ago, I pointed out a wrong sale tag on a JS1000, which that looked after right away, and a BADLY bowed neck on a roadworn Strat, which they more or less said "Meh!". Speaking in broad general terms, Calgary still has lots more to offer than Edmonton, I stop in several Calgary stores every month when I'm down there on business.


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## droptop88 (Aug 25, 2006)

I can sure relate, as I frequent these same stores on a regular basis.

Just leaving selection, price, customer service et al out of it for a moment though - I find the majority of instruments hanging in these establishments aren't set up very well - all year round. Sure, action/playability is a VERY personal thing.... I just can't help but think these stores would move a helluva lot more instruments if they played well when you took them down off the rack.


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## Beach Bob (Sep 12, 2009)

I've been cruising around for a bit this week, thinking that Santa might be leaving something Tele-like under the tree.

Being very much a newbie, I don't exactly know what to expect from a music store in terms of service/selection/etc. 

My observations (all Calgary, mid day week days):

Axe Music: Fight past construction in the parking lot (actually had to loop around the block because they had entrance & exit blocked with trucks). Lots of pretty stuff on the walls. Not that much in the Tele vein. Staff seemed to be plentiful, but obviously shy...they didn't say a word to me.

Guitarworks (South): I bought my acoustic at GW in the North, sad to see that one shut down. Odd store layout.. sort of a big loop. Fair amount of stuff on the walls, again, not much in the Tele world. Newbie staff member did talk to me (someone handed him his business cards while we talked..). The guy couldn't get past the fact that I was looking to buy something for myself and not a kid. His sales patter didn't extend beyond the squier starter boxes stacked everywhere.

Music Centre Canada (Westbrook): Stuck my head in mainly to take a glance at some G&L Tributes. Surprised how small a selection they had in general. Sales staff greeted me and let me wander in peace. Checked to see if there they could help.

Long & McQuade - Stopped there twice in the last month. Fair amount of stock on the walls. I think there were 3 tele's. Tons of staff everywhere. Staff seems to spend all its time talking to each other. Surprised to see prices on Vox VT15/VT30 were lower than anywhere else I've been. If someone had tried, they probably could have sold me one of those today.

Mothers - Just happened to be in the area. Approached the store from the wrong direction and there was too much traffic to bother trying to turn across it. Will try to stop in the next time I am in that part of town.



I don't know if my expectations are too high or what. In general, I can't believe how poor the customer service end of things is. 

I know that 40% of the world plays a strat like thing and another 40% play a Les Paul type thing... add in what I would think was a disproportionately large selection of pointy guitars, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of wall space left for the Tele guys.

Any shops in Calgary I've missed? (other than the boutique type shops with the exotics...)


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## Allfingers (Oct 27, 2009)

droptop88 said:


> I can sure relate, as I frequent these same stores on a regular basis.
> 
> Just leaving selection, price, customer service et al out of it for a moment though - I find the majority of instruments hanging in these establishments aren't set up very well - all year round. Sure, action/playability is a VERY personal thing.... I just can't help but think these stores would move a helluva lot more instruments if they played well when you took them down off the rack.


True. It must, however, be difficult for staff to keep on top of all the instruments....especially on a busy day. An acoustic is a bit easier to eyeball and tune if a customer has taken it down and tried it. Probably not so easy with an electric.

I bring my own tuner with me because I don't have a good ear. I then play two guitars of an identical model after I've tuned them the same. Any major difference in sound reveals a bit more info on the quality or set up. Lots of times, however, the guitars will sound virtually the same and it's 'probably' the right sound for them.


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## droptop88 (Aug 25, 2006)

> Staff seems to spend all its time talking to each other.


LOL!! There's an astute observation if ever I saw one! Actually the Calgary [email protected] guys are excellent. Most have been there for a while, and they are all knowledgeable/approachable. Too funny though.



> Any shops in Calgary I've missed?


Beach, try Vintage up on 14th street just north of 16th ave. Good selection of teles. Often something interesting there - acoustics and amps too. There was a nice blonde Hwy 1 tele w/white pickguard in there just last week. Nice weight too.

cheers,

Peter


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

This isn't a problem exclusive to Calgary, although when I lived there the L&M on 11th Ave. in the SW was awesome. I developed my vintage Fender problems at that store LOL. I posted a similar rant about our local L&M here where I live. Some folks didn't agree, but most chimed in with their tales of woe. It seems to me most of the staff at these chain stores are young and limited in their knowledge. This tends to lead them to "stand around and talk to each other". Tellingly, they always end up referring me to the same two guys. They're about my age and look tired from a long day of dealing with those pesky customers that want answers. I recently went to the L&M in Cambridge Ont. and it was night and day compared to the one I frequent. It's really well stocked and the staff were excellent. I should say, it doesn't hurt when you have a great jazz guitarist like Glenn Murch running the place.

Shawn


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

The Sheraton is $820 online at L&M, and I have seen it fore less than $800 new. It is $599 US at Musician's Friend. I know you were looking at strats, but hey,... :smile:


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## GUInessTARS (Dec 28, 2007)

I does seem a far stretch from Leo Fender making the best quality intruments he could, at the best price he could.


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## Shauner (Nov 29, 2009)

*Prices*

Can't justify the prices in town...don't know if its like that in the rest of Canada. Coming from the states, I can't get over retail prices here. Usually purchase online and have it shipped to my folks in the states...they ship it up and I still save money on everything.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Beach Bob said:


> Guitarworks (South): I bought my acoustic at GW in the North, sad to see that one shut down.


Shut down? The one on 16th or the one in Crowfoot?
I haven't spent a lot of money at Guitarworks over the years, but it would be a shame if it was the 16th Ave location shutting down.




Rugburn said:


> This isn't a problem exclusive to Calgary, although when I lived there the L&M on 11th Ave. in the SW was awesome.


It still would have been Keen Kraft at that time-I thought it became L&M after they moved to 17th Ave. 




Shauner said:


> Can't justify the prices in town.



Last year when I bought my Ibanez the same store had a STrat that is still there--at that time (about 15 months ago) the guitar was $700.

Now it shows as marked down and is about $1000!
It's almost $300 more than it was a year ago, and it's "Marked Down"-That's the same guitar--not the same model--the exact same guitar.


When I bought the Ibanez, the Canadian $ was stronger than the American $--manufacturers had dropped prices, and things seemed good. I'm glad I bought when I did.

That same model now has a price of about $150-200 more--depending on the store.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Duster said:


> The experience you're describing is generally true for most retail in Canada. The fact is our retail establishments are not known for their excellence. We have convinced ourselves that we're a small market, so it isn't worth holding inventory. We should have very little stock and variety, our prices should be a bit higher than anywhere else, and we should have low expectations regarding customer service.
> 
> This attitude of mediocrity pervades the vast majority of retail operations, be it for guitars, motorcycles, cars, or any other consumer goods. I understand there's an economic reality underlying it, but expecting consumers to pay more or get less because of that, doesn't help fix the problem. It just drives more and more people elsewhere to make their purchases.
> 
> ...


Man, you put it into words perfectly. I would argue that if the economy is so bad, you'd think these places would be doing anything they can to move stock (sell guitars). The fact that you were really interested in a guitar that the store carries and they couldn't bother to even return your calls demonstrates the opposite. I'm glad that store is doing so well they can afford to throw away customers who are literally begging to buy a guitar.

As for the frets - it's our seasonal climate. With the Fenders, keep in mind they're built and set up in California or Mexico where it's warm and humid most of the time. Then, they're shipped up to Canada where it's cold and dry in the winter. Wood shrinks, frets stick out. I've picked up a few where it'll be a $1700 guitar or bass and the frets are almost shredding my hand.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Rugburn said:


> This isn't a problem exclusive to Calgary, although when I lived there the L&M on 11th Ave. in the SW was awesome. I developed my vintage Fender problems at that store LOL. I posted a similar rant about our local L&M here where I live. Some folks didn't agree, but most chimed in with their tales of woe. It seems to me most of the staff at these chain stores are young and limited in their knowledge. This tends to lead them to "stand around and talk to each other". Tellingly, they always end up referring me to the same two guys. *They're about my age and look tired from a long day of dealing with those pesky customers that want answers.* I recently went to the L&M in Cambridge Ont. and it was night and day compared to the one I frequent. It's really well stocked and the staff were excellent. I should say, it doesn't hurt when you have a great jazz guitarist like Glenn Murch running the place.
> 
> Shawn



I have this issue in so many stores I visit. And the saddest part is a lot of times it's the smaller stores where customer service should be their main focus. I know people likely get tired of trying to sell stuff, but what possible benefit is there to giving poor service? It's not helping them or the business they work for.

I haven't had any real horror stories from the music stores around here. Just some annoyances mentioned in other threads. But I still look for something used first 99% of the time, and 99% of the time I find it used.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

torndownunit said:


> I know people likely get tired of trying to sell stuff, but what possible benefit is there to giving poor service?


I think when he made the comment "_tired from a long day of dealing with those pesky customers that want answers_", I think it was a dig at the blue haired punks with javelins through their faces. They seem to view customers as an annoyance most of the time and the old guys can only pick up so much slack before it grinds them down.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

2manyGuitars said:


> I think when he made the comment "_tired from a long day of dealing with those pesky customers that want answers_", I think it was a dig at the blue haired punks with javelins through their faces. They seem to view customers as an annoyance most of the time and the old guys can only pick up so much slack before it grinds them down.


It's not just them who act that way towards customers though. Plenty of people in retail do. And as mentioned, a disturbing amount in smaller stores where customer service should be a priority since it's one thing they can offer you over a big box store.


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## Jaggery (Mar 12, 2006)

Generally agree with Duster, although the situation has improved quite a lot in terms of inventory in the past decade.

I am in Mississauga and between L&Ms, The guitar Shop, LA Music and few others in Brampton and Oakville, you should be able to find your desired gear.

Now prices, that's a totally different matter.
You have to look around and see if it is worth buying locally.

I dont know if our market will ever grow beyond a certain size, just not enough people.

We may never have GC style sales events.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

If you hang at some of the American guitar forums, you'd see that there's no end of bitching about GC... big box stores offer some advantages yet are hobbled by other aspects.

Far as I can see, it's a crap shoot. I have had far more success hunting for used guitars via Craigslist and Kijiji. And yeah, even that is a crap shoot.


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## Duster (Dec 28, 2007)

I'm glad to see some people agree with me. Usually when I get talking about retail, people find my comments inflammatory and insulting.

The shop that never called me back, despite me inquiring, in person, at their store? That's the shop where I take lessons. I'm physically in their store at least once a week. I know all the staff, and I've met the owner a couple of times - he was the guy who was supposed to call me back. I told the staff I wasn't getting a call-back, and that didn't help the situation.

When I went in with my brand new G&L (purchased online from the states), I got some great compliments from folks there, on how great the guitar looked. They asked "Did you get that here?", and I said "Nope, but not for lack of trying!"

I'm not trying to badmouth a store in particular (which is why I'm not naming names). They're not bad people or anything. I think they (small retailers) just don't want to understand the reality of the situation. They make a lot of excuses, like the market's too small, their distributor doesn't give them fair pricing, the manufacturer won't give them good stock or terms. To me it's a lot of excuses. If you have a bunch of things working against you that are outside of your control, then you work like a mother to be the best at the things you CAN control.

If you know your pricing isn't as good as online, then you can't offer just "equivalent" service to an online retailer, and expect to win. Similarly, you can't rely on some guilt-trip about "supporting the local shop". The online guys could sing the same blues, so to speak. They could say "I have no chance of competing against a store that is literally located on the same block as my customer! How could I offer the same convenience and personal service of the local guitar shop? How could I possibly know my customers well enough to stock the right stuff and offer the right advice? Those local shops are gonna kill me!"

But they don't make excuses. They focus on their strengths, which is pricing, and low overhead. They invest a lot in their website to make sure it's easily searchable. They negotiate shipping terms with UPS or USPS or whoever it is. They have a department of people to setup, package, and insure guitars that are going in the mail. They get insurance and warranty to back their product. They advertise, plenty. Because they don't have the luxury of having thousands of people walk and drive past their front door every day.

The local shops have it rough in certain ways, but they have advantages. They should capitalize on those advantages instead of spending their time making excuses.

I hope that wasn't too inflammatory. 

--- D


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

Duster said:


> If you know your pricing isn't as good as online, then you can't offer just "equivalent" service to an online retailer, and expect to win. Similarly, you can't rely on some guilt-trip about "supporting the local shop". The online guys could sing the same blues, so to speak. They could say "I have no chance of competing against a store that is literally located on the same block as my customer! How could I offer the same convenience and personal service of the local guitar shop? How could I possibly know my customers well enough to stock the right stuff and offer the right advice? Those local shops are gonna kill me!"
> --- D


I really love that paragraph. When I have my own shop (which should be early in 2011) I'm going to focus on used gear and low-end kit guitars. I'm also going to personally set-up every single piece that I sell, including the small tweaks it needs after being bought. Hopefully by doing used gear I'll have a constantly changing variety that makes people drop in every month or so to check on what's new. I'm not going to try to have the lowest price on the planet, but I am going to have a fair price and the best value possible for that price.


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## pickslide (May 9, 2006)

Maybe we will be lucky and some of the people who work in those shops will take a listen to what people are saying. Regarding pricing, that is really not their call most of the time. I am more upset with Fender and Gibson for raising prices and lowering quality.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

kat_ said:


> I really love that paragraph. *When I have my own shop (which should be early in 2011)* I'm going to focus on used gear and low-end kit guitars. I'm also going to personally set-up every single piece that I sell, including the small tweaks it needs after being bought. Hopefully by doing used gear I'll have a constantly changing variety that makes people drop in every month or so to check on what's new. I'm not going to try to have the lowest price on the planet, but I am going to have a fair price and the best value possible for that price.


Kat...this is very exciting !! 

We had a small used/consignment shop here. I bought a lot of gear at that shop and it was typically quite busy. The owner was a nice guy, but never kept regular opening hours at the store. I had to call him before I left to go to his shop..just to be sure he was going to be open. The store also needed a good cleaning and some basic decorating (IMHO). Many guitar players, drummers, and music enthusiasts in general wish that a similar store would open here again. 

I wish you all the best. As a partner in a small business (unrelated to music or gear) I can understand how much you must be looking forward to this "adventure"

Cheers

Dave


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## Derek (Nov 20, 2009)

I've got quite a few stories about service and the lack thereof, but my biggest complaint, and this is true of all guitar shops I've visited when actually looking for a guitar to buy is that they are almost never in tune. I realize it's difficult to keep all of the guitars in tune with the climate and all the people trying them. But there are guitars that have been sitting on the rack for a while, and you know it because the strings are so dirty and/or used that it makes it almost unplayable.

If a guitar isn't in tune when I'm out trying to find one to buy I'm immediately turned off. I either try to tune by ear, so at least it's somewhat tuned to itself or ask for a tuner. I know they have a lot of guitars in some places, but if your job is to sell them, wouldn't you want to make your job a lot easier?

Think about going into a car dealership and asking to test drive a sports car. You get to the car and notice the tires are bald. They tell you that everyone buys new tires anyhow. But now you can't really test drive it because you can't "give'er", and the handling wouldn't be what you would expect from such a car.

Similar to guitars. I know the $2000 Gibson LP I'm trying is probably supposed to sound good, but currently it sucks. My first impression is, meh.


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## Duster (Dec 28, 2007)

Derek said:


> I've got quite a few stories about service and the lack thereof, but my biggest complaint, and this is true of all guitar shops I've visited when actually looking for a guitar to buy is that they are almost never in tune. I realize it's difficult to keep all of the guitars in tune with the climate and all the people trying them. But there are guitars that have been sitting on the rack for a while, and you know it because the strings are so dirty and/or used that it makes it almost unplayable.
> 
> If a guitar isn't in tune when I'm out trying to find one to buy I'm immediately turned off. I either try to tune by ear, so at least it's somewhat tuned to itself or ask for a tuner. I know they have a lot of guitars in some places, but if your job is to sell them, wouldn't you want to make your job a lot easier?
> 
> ...


This is a point where service matters. I've been in a couple of shops where I've been served quite well, had guitars taken down off the wall and tuned before being handed to me. Others, not so much. Guess which shops I keep going back to? 

--- D


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## Allfingers (Oct 27, 2009)

an aside:

Some of the 'Best Buys' in the USA have opened up large musical instrument sections selling Fenders, Vox amps, etc.

A new Best Buy just opened up in Calgary last month but no dedicated music section. The salesperson I asked (they have a few keyboards, guitar packages only) didn't know of any plans for more brand-name musical instruments. bummer.

Best Buy video (USA)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4f_DKRpq1A&feature=related


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## Abrasive (Feb 1, 2008)

The Futureshop on the south end of Edmonton has a bunch of music stuff.

The shop here has great staff. They're very friendly and helpful. Unfortunately, whoever is in charge of pricing seems to be insane.
Because the ridiculous prices are on everything in the store, I don't go anymore. The other store in town is getting out of instruments. Which sucks because again, great staff. But this place at least has decent pricing on everyday kind of stuff like strings and stands.

There's another great store, but it's a bit of a drive away, and they don't carry a ton of stuff, but the owner's been really good with ordering stuff for me. I try to give them my business whenever possible. If I was closer, I'd give them a lot more.

I fear I'll soon have to start leaning even more heavily on ordering stuff on the internet, which sucks since shipping from the US seems to have skyrocketed in the past few months.


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## Jimmypaz (Sep 15, 2009)

greco said:


> Kat...this is very exciting !!
> 
> We had a small used/consignment shop here. I bought a lot of gear at that shop and it was typically quite busy. The owner was a nice guy, but never kept regular opening hours at the store. I had to call him before I left to go to his shop..just to be sure he was going to be open. The store also needed a good cleaning and some basic decorating (IMHO). Many guitar players, drummers, and music enthusiasts in general wish that a similar store would open here again
> Dave


Yeah I know what ya mean, I used to deal with Randy too ( I'm assuming thats who you mean) and he's a good guy but always seemed to have other irons in the fire so to speak. I too miss that shop.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

Jimmypaz said:


> Yeah I know what ya mean, I used to deal with Randy too ( I'm assuming thats who you mean) and he's a good guy but always seemed to have other irons in the fire so to speak. I too miss that shop.



I bought my beloved B.C. Rich handmade late 70's accoustic at Randy's store. I loved that place. He still has a house full of guitars and amps that are generally for sale. I can get you his phone # by way of PM.

Shawn :wave:


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Duster said:


> I'm glad to see some people agree with me. Usually when I get talking about retail, people find my comments inflammatory and insulting.
> 
> The shop that never called me back, despite me inquiring, in person, at their store? That's the shop where I take lessons. I'm physically in their store at least once a week. I know all the staff, and I've met the owner a couple of times - he was the guy who was supposed to call me back. I told the staff I wasn't getting a call-back, and that didn't help the situation.
> 
> ...


That drives me completely insane as well. While price is the bottom line for me buying a lot of items, I will ALWAYS support a smaller local business when I can. There are several in my town I am very loyal to. If I gte good service, I will also spread the word. I get horrible service, will be spreading the word as well.

I just can't believe when some of these businesses offer crappy service, than lay guilt trips on people for where they choose to shop. And they throw an uproar when they go under. I haven't seen one of the 'good guys' go under in my town due to the chain stores (which have now been here for years). They offer good service, and people still use them. The stores that offered bad service and worse prices disappear.


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

pickslide said:


> I have seriously never seen anything like that before...and this is a brand new guitar that costs $1000! So then I tried to road worn tele and the frets were exactly the same! How can Fender justify charging $1k for such terrible worksmanship?


The wood shrinks when it gets to a dry climate like calgary. Frets needing a tweak like that isnt unusual. If you got a fresh out of the box one then the shrinkage would just happen in your home.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Archer said:


> The wood shrinks when it gets to a dry climate like calgary. Frets needing a tweak like that isnt unusual. If you got a fresh out of the box one then the shrinkage would just happen in your home.


The store carrying them shouldn't be putting them on the rack like that either though in an ideal world.


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

I would also like to extend best wishes for great success to Kat! If you had a decent selection of used guitars, I would be in at least once a week.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

kat_ said:


> When I have my own shop (which should be early in 2011)


Of course you'll have to let us know when this comes to pass.
I can never have too many options for guitar stores.

Sounds like a cool idea.


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## csrMark (Jul 14, 2007)

bottom line........

MASS PRODUCTION


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Abrasive said:


> The Futureshop on the south end of Edmonton has a bunch of music stuff.
> 
> The shop here has great staff. They're very friendly and helpful. Unfortunately, whoever is in charge of pricing seems to be insane.
> Because the ridiculous prices are on everything in the store, I don't go anymore.


I noticed the same thing when I saw the guitars on the Future Shop website. I honestly was like, "zuh?"


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

2manyGuitars said:


> I think when he made the comment "_tired from a long day of dealing with those pesky customers that want answers_", I think it was a dig at the blue haired punks with javelins through their faces. They seem to view customers as an annoyance most of the time and the old guys can only pick up so much slack before it grinds them down.


You know that old saying: "Don't judge a book by its cover"?

I was in a Home Outfitters store a couple years ago with my wife. We were picking out a new set of kitchen knives and we weren't sure which set was a good buy. I noticed this one staff member - a girl who had a spiky mohawk type haircut, blue streaks in her hair, facial piercings, tattoos - the works. I was kind of avoiding asking her for help because I assumed as you do, that she'd be rude. Well, as it turns out, she saw us and approached to ask if we needed a hand. She then proceeded to completely blow me away with her service! She knew EVERYTHING there was to know about all the stock they had. She discouraged us getting certain sets based on how she'd seen the display models fared over time, and recommended a set that she felt was the best value for quality and price. She was so good that I actually asked to speak to the manager when we went through the checkout and told them how impressed I was with that employee.

So you never know.


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## Duster (Dec 28, 2007)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> She was so good that I actually asked to speak to the manager when we went through the checkout and told them how impressed I was with that employee.


I think you bring up one of the best points in the thread right here. I think we're all very quick to criticize bad service. I'm guiltier than anyone, as you can tell by my rant in this thread.

But how many times have you gone out of your way to do the opposite, and praise good service? If we regularly called stores to commend them on particular employees' service, or service generally, we'd be reinforcing those behaviours and we might actually make a difference. That employee that sold you those knives probably got, at the very least, a compliment from her manager. That might have caused her to stick with the job a bit longer, and in so doing, provide similar great service to hundreds more customers.

Every time I complain about something, I try to assess if I'm complaining more than I'm praising. If that's the case, I try to correct it.

There's a saying in management - instead of trying to catch people doing something wrong, try catching them doing something right.

In that vein, I'll offer the following.

Steve's Music in Toronto, for all their perceived faults, have treated me very well. Someone always tunes a guitar for me, someone always asks if they can help, and they're never pushy. Considering how busy that store gets, I'm amazed at how the staff are pretty consistent in their service. 

The Twelfth Fret in Toronto runs a very professional operation. Especially when it comes to email communication, they are very, very responsive. They repaired a small crack in my acoustic, essentially for free. The service department there is the real thing. Also, their website consumes hours of my time, as I fantasize over some awesome products.

I'll try to think of some other positive stories to balance out my "mediocrity" rant. 

--- D


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Duster said:


> I think you bring up one of the best points in the thread right here. I think we're all very quick to criticize bad service. I'm guiltier than anyone, as you can tell by my rant in this thread.
> 
> *But how many times have you gone out of your way to do the opposite, and praise good service?* If we regularly called stores to commend them on particular employees' service, or service generally, we'd be reinforcing those behaviours and we might actually make a difference. That employee that sold you those knives probably got, at the very least, a compliment from her manager. That might have caused her to stick with the job a bit longer, and in so doing, provide similar great service to hundreds more customers.
> 
> ...


I actually do all the time. Mainly because it gets rarer and rarer to come by. There are several times I have let a manager know that I was very happy with the service I got. And I definitely make sure I inform the person serving me that I was happy with their service.

But ya back to PTM's post, I have never found how someone looks relates to how they perform their job. Lazy, grumpy, or not very bright people... are lazy, grumpy, or not very bright people.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

well there you go...
yes good to remember the positive.
personally i've had great service at places like the 12th Fret and Capsule in Toronto, the Kingston Guitar shop, Lauzon in Ottawa. 

but i still find i have bought way more guitars used from private folks selling on line than at guitar shops. there is just too big a price variance.
i have bought 'essentially' new guitars from private sellers for up to 60% less than retail. and as far as service goes, most private sellers are a lot more motivated than some guy working for an hourly wage in a shop.
at this point in time, given the economy in Canada and the USA it is completely a buyers market for guitars. there are major deals to be found.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Duster said:


> But how many times have you gone out of your way to do the opposite, and praise good service? If we regularly called stores to commend them on particular employees' service, or service generally, we'd be reinforcing those behaviours and we might actually make a difference.


I've spent a lot of years working on the delivery side of customer service and because of that I always go out of my way to recognize great service. With my experience, I can tell almost immediately if someone is just doing the bare minimum to earn a paycheque, or whether they're really good at their job and are going that extra mile. I can tell you that from the employee's point of view, you take a lot of crap when you work with the public - and it can wear you down. Those few compliments that come through really make you feel great - like you did something right - and it's a huge motivator. Not to mention, that management LOVES that kind of stuff (seriously, most customer compliments get documented in employee's files). So, when a service person really does a good job, I will always ask to speak to their manager and then lay on the compliments when I do.


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## Beach Bob (Sep 12, 2009)

droptop88 said:


> Beach, try Vintage up on 14th street just north of 16th ave. Good selection of teles. Often something interesting there - acoustics and amps too. There was a nice blonde Hwy 1 tele w/white pickguard in there just last week. Nice weight too.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Peter


Peter - Some place! I doubt I'd have ever even known that they existed other than by you telling me. Even when I found it, I wasn't sure of what to make of it.

There is certainly an awful lot of guitars hanging in there... half of which give instant GAS and the other half are even cooler. Definitely a better selection of Teles than any where else in town that I've seen.

The owner seems pretty cool as well. The store was pretty busy... good to see a private enterprise doing well (I hope he's doing well). The owner told me he had just gone down the line marking down prices. (and that blonde Highway was still there...now at a lower price...this might cost me money yet).


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