# at what point does it become Northern Ontario?



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

folks moved to our neighbourhood and I invited them over for a backyard dinner/bbq. dinner, drinks, jokes, small chat, etc. good time was had by all.

time for the origin stories and the Mrs. tells me she's from southern Ontario,.. Leamington. story checks out, its pretty south, like yikes south in terms of Canada. then she says she used to vacation in Northern Ontario at the family cottage, Manitoulin Island. still seems pretty south to me. I expected her to say Hudson Bay or something. Clearly latitude must be up to the interpretation of the locals.

at what point does it transition from southern to northern Ontario? do you do Central? What do you call Timmins or Moosonee?


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## Dave B4 (Jan 11, 2020)

Highway 7

lmao

seriously, though, I’ve heard people say that anything North of Barrie is 'North'

for me? Parry Sound...


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Dave B4 said:


> Highway 7


That used to be the snow line but now it’s up around Newmarket and headin for Barrie...lol


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## chuckv97 (Jan 8, 2017)

They used to say North Bay was the “Near North”. I’d say north of Highway 17 is northern Ontario. Muskoka I’d say is Central Ontario.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Easy... if black flies are a season you endure then you reside in the “north”... according to this bonafide southerner.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Dave B4 said:


> Highway 7
> 
> lmao
> 
> ...


That's a pretty common line. Although I have heard north of Parry Sound named the mid-north too. Once you get north of Sault Ste. Marie/Sudbury/North Bay it's starting to get pretty north, and once you get 1/2 way to Timmins from Sudbury on the 144, the watershed start changing direction and goes north, you start getting less deciduous trees and it's getting really north.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

The Canadian Shield starts at North Bay. This is the edge of the known world. 

South of that, folks are confused about North Bay, Thunder Bay and, yes... Hudson's Bay.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

KapnKrunch said:


> Hudson's Bay.


The store, or the body of water?....lol


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I've heard and consider anything north of Parry Sound to be "northern" Ontario.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

I assumed Omemee would be near Dryden.


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## StratCat (Dec 30, 2013)

Hammerhands said:


> I assumed Omemee would be near Dryden.



I believe Neil.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Wardo said:


> That used to be the snow line but now it’s up around Newmarket and headin for Barrie...lol


Yup. Davis Drive/Hwy 9


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

I used to consider Northern Ontario the part on the _other_ side of the map.


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## chuck_zc (Dec 6, 2009)

Hammerhands said:


> I assumed Omemee would be near Dryden.


They named a town after a goalie???


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Paul M said:


> I used to consider Northern Ontario the part on the _other_ side of the map.


Yup, that's always been my definition. My son's profs at Fleming's Environmental Education campus in Lindsay also hold up Sudbury/North Bay as the dividing line. That's certainly the point where you have to start thinking about where the next gas station is.

Manitoulin Island might qualify - if you're closer to Espanola than the ferry terminal.

"Up North" is a bit more nebulous - for some Finch Ave. qualifies.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

bw66 said:


> "Up North" is a bit more nebulous - for some Finch Ave. qualifies.


That was my thinking as a kid.
It was still a dirt road back then.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Working for a courier company, I've come to think of north being Sudbury and up. Manitoulin island is "Sudbury" more or less, so I'd think north whereas Tobermory is not to me. Sudbury is the starting point of our long haul destinations.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Someone needs to tell Uncle Neil that Omemee isn't in Northern Ontario.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Are there not tax breaks for people living in Northern Ontario. Just follow the tax breaks.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

After driving across Canada from Ottawa recently, if you take highway 11, you are into northern Ontario. If you take 17, that's southern.


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## bluehugh2 (Mar 10, 2006)

According to Neil Young: “There is a town in North Ontario...” (from the song “Helpless”) ... and he was referring to his hometown of Omemee ... at Highway 7! Ha!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Anything past North Bay, Sudbury is Northern Ontario to me.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

bluehugh2 said:


> According to Neil Young: “There is a town in North Ontario...” (from the song “Helpless”) ... and he was referring to his hometown of Omemee ... at Highway 7! Ha!


"There is a town in Central Ontario..." Nah. Neil gets a pass. There is no place for geographical accuracy in art.  

"Born and raised in South Detroit", aka Windsor.


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

bluehugh2 said:


> According to Neil Young: “There is a town in North Ontario...” (from the song “Helpless”) ... and he was referring to his hometown of Omemee ... at Highway 7! Ha!


Check his geography marks in school. Since he was already a "southern man"'he had nowhere to go but north.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Draw a line following the trans-canada (hwy 17) from Mattawa to Sault Ste Marie. Anything north of that is "northern" Ontario.

Never bothered to see if there's an official definition, but that's what I grew up with. I lived in Elliot Lake for several years, and everyone referred to it as being in northern Ontario.


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

bw66 said:


> "There is a town in Central Ontario..." Nah. Neil gets a pass. There is no place for geographical accuracy in art.
> 
> "Born and raised in South Detroit", aka Windsor.


Growing up there, I often wondered how many tourists looked across the river and thought they were looking at South Detroit, not realizing they were looking at a completely different country! 
I enjoy the song every time I hear it, but its overkill as a playoff anthem for Red Wing Cup runs still makes me cringe a bit.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

jbealsmusic said:


> ... Never bothered to see if there's an official definition...


That got me thinking...









Northern Ontario - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Looks like Manitoulin makes the cut.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

"North" in Ontario would seem to be defined by how far Torontonians are willing to drive to "the cottage" on any given weekend. That would kinda sorta put it at the end of Highway 400, or the part of 11 that gets to North Bay. That would make about 80-85% of the province "the north", even though about 45% of the province lies below the southernmost border of the 4 western provinces. Ironically, the part of Quebec on the Quebec side of the border across from Temagami and Kirkland Lake is referred to as "West Quebec", despite being further north than what many Ontarians consider "north". But then, Quebec "starts" and extends further north than Ontario does, so I guess the subjective boundary between north and south is the case in each province.

I still don't get how UWO became "Western University". The western part of what: southwestern Ontario? I kinda sorta understand why they changed their name (though I don't respect it), given how many students would answer the question "So where'd you apply?" with "Western". But why not be truthful and rebrand as "Southwestern", instead of pretending like the rest of Canada did not exist? At least the University of Northern British Columbia is truthful in its name.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Guitar101 said:


> Are there not tax breaks for people living in Northern Ontario. Just follow the tax breaks.


Not in Sudbury. Maybe in the far north.
When I lived in northern Manitoba we would get a tax break, but that was north of the 56th parallel.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

bw66 said:


> "Up North" is a bit more nebulous - for some Finch Ave. qualifies.


Lol. 

-----------------------

"Most of the core geographic region is located on part of the Superior Geological Province of the Canadian Shield, a vast rocky plateau located mainly north of Lake Huron (including Georgian Bay), the French River, Lake Nipissing, and the Mattawa River." -- _Wikipedia _

What did I say... it's all about the Shield.


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## Waldo97 (Jul 4, 2020)

KapnKrunch said:


> The Canadian Shield starts at North Bay. This is the edge of the known world.
> 
> South of that, folks are confused about North Bay, Thunder Bay and, yes... Hudson's Bay.


Agreed. Of course, that means that Gananoque is Northern Ontario, which might confuse some people.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

According to Revenue Canada:

_"For the NOEC, Northern Ontario means the districts of Algoma, Cochrane, Kenora, Manitoulin, Nipissing, Parry Sound, Rainy River, Sudbury (including the City of Greater Sudbury), Thunder Bay, and Timiskaming. You must live in one of these areas on December 31, 2019, to be eligible for the 2020 NOEC."_​
If you can't trust the government, who can you trust?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I gather that has more to do with the general cost of living in such areas than with how truly "north" they are. In which case, more of a comment on distributors and retailers than on government.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

vadsy said:


> at what point does it transition from southern to northern Ontario? do you do Central? What do you call Timmins or Moosonee?


If the government says it, it must be true. 

On the following page a road map index diagram shows "southern Ontario" with its northern edge being NORTH of Manitoulin Island, so it seems that your friend vacationed in southern Ontario, not northern Ontario. She should be urgently advised. 





__





The Official Road Map of Ontario






www.mto.gov.on.ca


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)




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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Seems in most of Canada the dividing line between North and South runs between Prince Rupert and Davis Inlet, hitting PG, Edmonchuck, Prince Albert, Grand Rapids and on to Radisson and east. Looks like it hits Big Beaver and Summer Beaver along the way. Going by the map boyscout posted southern ont. makes Canada bottom heavy. Go figure.


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## Waldo97 (Jul 4, 2020)

Sneaky said:


>


I think that settles it.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Orillia I would say is where it starts. Perry Sound is northern Ont. Had a Aunt move down from Foleyet and she was disappointed she still did not leave the north.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Sneaky said:


>


BS. You can't tell me Huntsville is not Northern Ont. Algonquin Park area complete with Moose and wolves.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Anything above Michigan?


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Electraglide said:


> Seems in most of Canada the dividing line between North and South runs between Prince Rupert and Davis Inlet, hitting PG, Edmonchuck, Prince Albert, Grand Rapids and on to Radisson and east. Looks like it hits Big Beaver and Summer Beaver along the way. *Going by the map boyscout posted southern ont. makes Canada bottom heavy.* Go figure.


Given what many westerners think of Ontario, do you mean to say that Canada has a nice ass? Big ass? Fat ass?


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Distortion said:


> BS. You can't tell me Huntsville is not Northern Ont. Algonquin Park area complete with Moose and wolves.


Found the guy who has never been to the north.  

We have moose and wolves in Calgary. Bears and cougars too.


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## cdntac (Oct 11, 2017)

Had a friend once post on FB that he was heading to northern Ontario for his vacation. 

He lives about an hour north of Toronto and was going about another hour north of his house to near Gravenhurst. I mocked him and asked if when he goes to Niagara Falls if he announces he’s heading to southern Ontario. Lol.

Muskoka, Parry Sound, Huntsville...all Central Ontario.

Hwy 17, running from Mattawa to the west, is the border of Northern Ontario.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

boyscout said:


> Given what many westerners think of Ontario, do you mean to say that Canada has a nice ass? Big ass? Fat ass?


LM*A*O.

Whatever you call it, it has many "holes" in it. 😝


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

boyscout said:


> Given what many westerners think of Ontario, do you mean to say that Canada has a nice ass? Big ass? Fat ass?


Whenever someone says "big fat ass" I think of this pic.


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## Fred Gifford (Sep 2, 2019)

bluehugh2 said:


> According to Neil Young: “There is a town in North Ontario...” (from the song “Helpless”) ... and he was referring to his hometown of Omemee ... at Highway 7! Ha!


I always thought he was referring to Wawa in that song


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Fred Gifford said:


> I always thought he was referring to Wawa in that song


I thought it was Blind River.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Jim DaddyO said:


> I thought it was Blind River.


Blind River is in _Long May You Run_. 

I know for a fact that he is referring to the dance he played at my high school in Atikokan. I'm sure he remembers talking to me. 😜 They had some beer in the hearse (but I didn't get one).


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

boyscout said:


> Given what many westerners think of Ontario, do you mean to say that Canada has a nice ass? Big ass? Fat ass?


Given what most westeners think of ontario, probably a fat, flabby ass. And if the lower part of ont. is Canada's ass then you know what that makes toronto.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

KapnKrunch said:


> Blind River is in _Long May You Run_.
> 
> I know for a fact that he is referring to the dance he played at my high school in Atikokan. I'm sure he remembers talking to me. 😜 They had some beer in the hearse (but I didn't get one).


My memory isn't what it used to be.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> then you know what that makes toronto.


They're known as the center of the universe. Definitely center, but not the universe.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Sneaky said:


> Found the guy who has never been to the north.
> 
> We have moose and wolves in Calgary. Bears and cougars too.


And coyotes too, at least around where I live. Nice chunk of meat there and fairly young.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Sneaky said:


> Found the guy who has never been to the north.
> 
> We have moose and wolves in Calgary. Bears and cougars too.


wrong I wore out hwy 11 from Barrie to Timmins.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> wrong I wore out hwy 11 from Barrie to Timmins. North bay to visit family 2 to 3 times a year.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Hwy 11 is the longest street in the world. Technically Younge Street in Toronto that stretches to Thunder Bay.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Technically Younge Street in Toronto


Would that be the line that splits east and west?


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

Espanola is def north eastern Ontario. Once you're past Muskoka I think you're up here. Hwy 69 is very much Northern Ontario.


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## Alsomooh (Jul 12, 2020)

For me, north of Superior. For some it’s the 45th parrallel. I used to have colleagues who thought Huron County was up north, but they all came from Windsor which is practically tropical.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Hwy 11 is the longest street in the world. Technically Younge Street in Toronto that stretches to Thunder Bay.


Hwy 11 and Hwy 17 join at Nipigon and continue as Highway11-17 thru Thunder Bay to Shabaqua where they split again. They re-join just before Kenora. So it is Yonge Street to the Manitoba border that makes it the longest street in the world. An extra 543 km past TBay. As the Trans-Canada Highway it ends up on the west coast somewhere...


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

KapnKrunch said:


> Hwy 11 and Hwy 17 join at Nipigon and continue as Highway11-17 thru Thunder Bay to Shabaqua where they split again. They re-join just before Kenora. So it is Yonge Street to the Manitoba border that makes it the longest street in the world. An extra 543 km past TBay. As the Trans-Canada Highway it ends up on the west coast somewhere...


Yup, you're right...goes all the way to Rainy River ends at the Minnisota border.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I keep hearing different answers from people I know in Ontario--but it is further south than I expected when i first heard "Southern Ontario"--much more south.

Then again in Alberta Edmonton is roughly about the mid point south to north.
And yet Red Deer is central Alberta & Edmonton is northern AB

But population has a lot to do with that.


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## Eric Reesor (Jan 26, 2020)

zontar said:


> I keep hearing different answers from people I know in Ontario--but it is further south than I expected when i first heard "Southern Ontario"--much more south.
> 
> Then again in Alberta Edmonton is roughly about the mid point south to north.
> And yet Red Deer is central Alberta & Edmonton is northern AB
> ...


According to Neil Young there is a town there but if you ask me this thread is rather helpless in defining the line. IMO anything south of Sudbury ain't worth going to these days except perhaps some of the isolated native owned lands north of Peterborough around Bancroft where industrial development and the insane chock a block real estate fuelled cottage mentality has not screwed over the incredible environment around the lakes quite yet. So the border between south and north is meaningless because of the way the Canadian shield ecology dips down past Timmins. I miss tapping trees in March and the freedom of skating on Lake Superior with the wind at my back in February like I did outside the Sault when I was a kid. BC is great but there is something about the ecology of the Canadian shield that is marvellous and I feel blessed to have had the spiritual experience of knowing the ecology of what is commonly called North Ontario!


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Eric Reesor said:


> According to Neil Young there is a town there but if you ask me this thread is rather helpless in defining the line. IMO anything south of Sudbury ain't worth going to these days except perhaps some of the isolated native owned lands north of Peterborough around Bancroft where industrial development and the insane chock a block real estate fuelled cottage mentality has not screwed over the incredible environment around the lakes quite yet. So the border between south and north is meaningless because of the way the Canadian shield ecology dips down past Timmins. I miss tapping trees in March and the freedom of skating on Lake Superior with the wind at my back in February like I did outside the Sault when I was a kid. BC is great but there is something about the ecology of the Canadian shield that is marvellous and I feel blessed to have had the spiritual experience of knowing the ecology of what is commonly called North Ontario!


Giving a Like for including that song.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Hwy 11 is the longest street in the world. Technically Younge Street in Toronto that stretches to Thunder Bay.


Both my maps have Young street up to Richmond Hill marked as hwy #1


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Yup, you're right...goes all the way to Rainy River ends at the Minnisota border.


Aha! Thanks for correcting me. I grew up on that stretch, and currently have a camp off it. Obviously I have forgotten that hwy 11 is the southern one ( ending in Rainy River), and it is hwy 17 to the north of it going to the west coast. Coulda swore it was the other way around! Klassic Kapn: thinks he knows everything but, doesn't even know his own neighbourhood. 🤗


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

KapnKrunch said:


> ... Coulda swore it was the other way around! ...


Perhaps because it is the other way around until you get to Nipigon.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

KapnKrunch said:


> Aha! Thanks for correcting me. I grew up on that stretch, and currently have a camp off it. Obviously I have forgotten that hwy 11 is the southern one ( ending in Rainy River), and it is hwy 17 to the north of it going to the west coast. Coulda swore it was the other way around! Klassic Kapn: thinks he knows everything but, doesn't even know his own neighbourhood. 🤗


Regardless....if someone asks to meet you on Younge street, you're being played....lol.


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## Eric Reesor (Jan 26, 2020)

An interesting way to look at the difference between southern Ontario and Northern Ontario is from an ecological and an anthropomorphic historical perspective. The Ojibwa were the most interesting of all the peoples by far. They were not averse to settling down for a few years and creating town sites, they even had trade agreements with the Huron who did settle and start to create a good political infrastructure, at least until the British helped their newly minted enemies from what is now the US almost extinct their culture of trade with the French. But enough history of why Ontario is what it is today. My point is that the boundary of stone dictated both ecologically and politically the distinction between North and South. 
There is still great French and Aboriginal culture in areas of North Ontario. So my definition of the boundary to North Ontariario is if there are great fiddle players who like to make you dance even in the clouds of black flies then I know that the bannock will be fantastic and I will be back in my childhood home.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

A bit off topic, but related....


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

bw66 said:


> Perhaps because it is the other way around until you get to Nipigon.


True. My Parents lived in Longlac for forty years (on Hwy 11) after moving from Atikokan (Hwy 11) where the family spent about fifteen then went different ways. Weird. Why would they do that? Hwy 11 is the Trans-Canada, then after Shabaqua, Hwy 17 becomes the TC.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Jim DaddyO said:


> A bit off topic, but related....


Pretty much explains all the confusion about the actual dividing line. Thanks. (I can add this to my arsenal of expertise on all subjects. Lol.)


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

KapnKrunch said:


> True. My Parents lived in Longlac for forty years (on Hwy 11) after moving from Atikokan (Hwy 11) where the family spent about fifteen then went different ways. Weird. Why would they do that? Hwy 11 is the Trans-Canada, then after Shabaqua, Hwy 17 becomes the TC.


Many trucking companies require their drivers to take 11 instead of 17 when going that way because it's pretty much a sure thing that along the shores of Lake Superior, particularly the eastern shore, you are going to run into bad weather. This holds true mostly in the winter. Which they get alot of.
We are looking at properties and have passed on a few right along that eastern shore for just that reason. Not much holding back the prevailing winds.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Many trucking companies require their drivers to take 11 instead of 17 when going that way because it's pretty much a sure thing that along the shores of Lake Superior, particularly the eastern shore, you are going to run into bad weather. This holds true mostly in the winter. Which they get alot of.
> We are looking at properties and have passed on a few right along that eastern shore for just that reason. Not much holding back the prevailing winds.


Yeah, anyone who wants to make good time uses the northern route. 

And true, the weather of Superior can be brutal. The "lake" (basically an inland sea) is NOT influenced by the weather. It influences the weather itself. That's the power. It scares me and I prefer more sheltered "inland" lakes.

Homes in Longlac on seventy-mile Long Lake are going for a song. See my comments in the "where should I retire" thread by @1SweetRide.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Ok. I’ll give you a pass for Timmins. 

True fact: I used to be very close with the Timmins family.


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## Alsomooh (Jul 12, 2020)

Well, we do refer to the cottage on the Bruce Peninsula as going up north, as it’s about a two hour drive north, but we’re not so silly to think of it as northern Ontario.

I spent a summer planting trees and such in the Armstrong area, it was the end of the road in those days. That was north, black flies and mosquitos that blocked out the sun, snowed one night in late summer, unbelievable fishing and blueberries, black bears so often we got bored of them, forest fires, float planes...and I took a guitar.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

KapnKrunch said:


> Homes in Longlac on seventy-mile Long Lake are going for a song


Not quite as far north as we have been looking. Cobalt, Kirkland Lake, etc is about where we have drawn a line. We have considered Kapuskasing and even Manitouwadge though and even the north shore of Superior like Terrace Bay, etc. If you go west of Thunder Bay there are some nice big lots with nice homes cheap, but that's getting pretty far out of our comfort range (family visiting). One of the big things we want is internet access as I have a YouTube channel. We crossed St. Joseph's Island and Echo Bay (near Sault Ste. Marie) off the list as sattelite is the only internet there.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Sneaky said:


> Ok. I’ll give you a pass for Timmins.
> 
> True fact: I used to be very close with the Timmins family.


I worked in Iriquois Falls for a short period of time. Nice area but it's way north, about an hour or so from Timmins.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Jim DaddyO said:


> I worked in Iriquois Falls for a short period of time. Nice area but it's way north, about an hour or so from Timmins.


I used to head down south to Iroquois Falls on weekends. To get some of that big city life.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Eric Reesor said:


> So my definition of the boundary to North Ontariario is if there are great fiddle players who like to make you dance even in the clouds of black flies then I know that the bannock will be fantastic and I will be back in my childhood home.


Two redeeming facts about blackflies: 

One: they can't stand the sun (get out in the open)
Two: they can't resist a pane of glass (and climb on it all day) 

(Three?) The bush sucks but the lake is always nice. Find a breezy point and quit bitching.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Eric Reesor said:


> there is something about the ecology of the Canadian shield that is marvellous and I feel blessed to have had the spiritual experience of knowing the ecology of what is commonly called North Ontario!


Ditto.

Of course, Quebec, Manitoba, Sakatchewan and Nunavit, NWT, Labrador and a corner of Alberta all have the Shield too.

Edit: there's even a chunk in New York state.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

KapnKrunch said:


> Ditto.
> 
> Of course, Quebec, Manitoba, Sakatchewan and Nunavit, NWT, Labrador and a corner of Alberta all have the Shield too.
> 
> Edit: there's even a chunk in New York state.


and the Niagara escarpment goes all the way up to the Manitoulin Island and arcs all the way down the west coast of Lake Michigan.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I didn’t read the whole thread but I’m wondering if Stompin Tom didn’t lay down a definitive answers to all this in one of his songs.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Wardo said:


> I didn’t read the whole thread but I’m wondering if Stompin Tom didn’t lay down a definitive answers to all this in one of his songs.


Ketchup goes with potaters?


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## ol' 58 (Jul 12, 2019)

In elementary school I was taught that the French River, Lake Nippissing, and the Mattawa River are the distinct physical boundaries between north and south. The folks I have discussed this with occasionally over the years seem to be of the same mind. Works for me.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Watched a pbs documentary once where they referred to the area near Sudbury as Southern Canada.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

tomee2 said:


> Watched a pbs documentary once where they referred to the area near Sudbury as Southern Canada.


I mean, if you look at a map, it is.

i think we often use some blend of populations and geography when determine north, central, south etc.
otherwise, saying Barrie is the dividing line is a little silly...that means line 90% of Ontario is north Ontario lol

fwiw, in terms of snow belt, it’s moved up...living in newmarket and working In Vaughan and driving a lot for work , I don’t see a difference here from the rest of the the parts north of the 401... but innisfil/Barrie gets whacked pretty hard...much like the snow belt around London. When I lived less than 1 km north of Lake Ontario in Mississauga, snow was real mild...even compared to 10-15kms north of us. It’s not a linear thing.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Barrie/Parry Sound area we used to call the "Banana belt". Warmer climate from Sudbury not too far north of that, but it is right in the lee of Lake Huron and gets hammered with lake effect snow.
The 400 series highway now goes much farther north, as they are steadily revamping hwy 69. I used to think the drive down 69 was a long boring drive in the '80's with it's narrow curvy route. Lately when I drive it, I kind of miss the scenery of rock and trees that have been taken over by the "industrial" look of the 4 lane going in.
Sunday we are taking a drive to the island (and if you don't know what that refers to, you're not very "northern"), home of Gitchi Manitou, then heading toward Gitchigumi shortly there after.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

I sense a Lightfoot tune up ahead a bit.


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