# R 'n R HOF



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I think this comes up every so often, but Does Dee have a point?
Dee Snider slams 'elitist' Rock and Roll Hall of Fame committee (msn.com)
I know there have been some questionable selections in the past.
Im not even sure I agree with Kate Bush in there....Outside the UK, I wouldnt say she was very impactful (although certainly deserving if there was a UK Pop HOF). Kind of like Robbie Williams. a massive star there, but never broke out on this side of the world.

You would think Dee would be happy seeing the New York Dolls in the list though as they were more of a band's band, and definitely very localized.

EDIT: after finding this article Dee Snider calls the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame committee “arrogant elitist assholes” over lack of inducted metal bands | News Break
I may have been hard on Kate....it seems the criteria for selection is a lot looser than I would have thought-half of the list have nothing to do with RnR.
"...Iron Maiden, along with Tina Turner, Jay-Z, LL Cool J, Rage Against The Machine, Kate Bush, The Go-Go’s, Mary J. Blige, New York Dolls, Fela Kuti, Chaka Khan, Todd Rundgren, Carole King, Devo, Dionne Warwick and Foo Fighters"


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm a big Kate Bush fan so I don't have too much to say about her getting in. I'd say there have been far less appropriate inductees pretty much every year.

But I lost respect for the RRHOS a long time ago. I just find their choices completely incomprehensible many years.


----------



## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

To me this goes back to them needing to dump Rock 'n Roll from the name. Jay-Z?? There is NOTHING R'nR about Jay-Z. Does he deserve a nod to be in a Hall of Fame somewhere?? Probably. Does Michael Jackson, does Madonna?? At least Pat Benatar's early stuff is Rock. Later stuff became a little soft. But she's not in. 
Carole King is a celebrated artist with a long list of hits of her own and song writing credits for others. No one can say she does not deserve a Hall of Fame spot. But the Rock n' Roll one... I don't think so.

And Devo!?!?!?!?!?! WTF!!

I don't like Maiden, but they are long overdue. How long did it take RUSH? Are ZZ Top in yet? The Go-Go's (who I personally love) were the first (and still only) all female band to write, and record all original material, without session musicians. That is a feat! But, does that push them to _deserve_ a spot before the contributions of New Order, or the Smiths' are recognized? I'd like to see New Order and the Smiths' go in ahead of Rage or the Foo Fighters. Are the Smashing Pumpkins in yet?? What about Alice in Chains?

As Milkman said, the respect level is next to zero! And for me based more on who they have let in, than kept out.

Jay-Z, LL Cool J, Mary J Blige. Someone explain how they are considered for the RRHOF!


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

We've had this discussion several times over the years. HOF selections are responded to vehemently on a year-by-year basis. Part of that is because I think RnR is kind of running out of pivotal icons of the same stature as those who established RnR in the first place. Another part of it is because nominations are becoming more niche-oriented as the genre becomes more fragmented. I mean, I like Chaka Khan and frequently put on her album, but is she pivotal in any way? Carole King wrote many of the "classics" with Gerry Goffin, and I believe they were honoured for that, and Tapestry sold millions, but why honour again? And Dionne Warwick? Dionne Warwick??? Every Burt Bachrach tune she did was done MUCH better, and rocked much harder, by Isaac Hayes. Jeez, how long before Bachrach himself gets inducted?

But if one scrolls through the list of who has already been inducted in past years ( Inductees A to Z | Rock & Roll Hall of Fame ), you find yourself doing a lot of head-nodding, thinking "Yeah I can definitely see that", and occasionally thinking "Holy shit! How did I never know about this person who was so influential to so many people?". The overall list, especially the first decade or so, feels more essential to the mission of the RnR HoF than the last 5 years.


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I think these girls are eligible next year.


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

I'll say I don't pay much attention and have no outrage. Someone will come along and chastise me, and I haven't googled, but when I have no idea who someone is, that tells me where my level of interest should be. Fela Kuti? Not a clue.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

My feeling is, the list is pretty diluted. This one, feels especially "woke"...as if someone decided that if we dont let in the Jay-Z's (lets be honest, when was the last time even Jay referred to himself as being in the business of Rock 'n roll?) and Chaka Khans, someone might start up an Rn B, Rap etc HOF and we will become extinct.

I'd really like to know what the criteria they use is...bc based on sales, Jay Z vs Kate Bush, NY dolls is no contest. 
I think some more transparency is needed if they want to stay relevant.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

SWLABR said:


> To me this goes back to them needing to dump Rock 'n Roll from the name. Jay-Z?? There is NOTHING R'nR about Jay-Z. Does he deserve a nod to be in a Hall of Fame somewhere?? Probably. Does Michael Jackson, does Madonna?? At least Pat Benatar's early stuff is Rock. Later stuff became a little soft. But she's not in.
> Carole King is a celebrated artist with a long list of hits of her own and song writing credits for others. No one can say she does not deserve a Hall of Fame spot. But the Rock n' Roll one... I don't think so.
> 
> And Devo!?!?!?!?!?! WTF!!
> ...


Its a bit silly that Devo are named, although I think a case could be made for Mark Mothersbaugh (if not now, then someday).

While I agree with 98% of your post, im curious, if you had to make a case for New Order/ Smiths, what would that be (esp vs Rage/FF)?


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

butterknucket said:


> I think these girls are eligible next year.


They may be as worthy as anyone in recent years.

Heres another...a female pop singer who sold a shit ton of songs, had a successful career of 2 decades+, multiple number 1 hits internationally, and influenced a generation....Should she be in?
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you future HOF'er.....Britney Spears!


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Diablo said:


> They may be as worthy as anyone in recent years.
> 
> Heres another...a female pop singer who sold a shit ton of songs, had a successful career of 2 decades+, multiple number 1 hits internationally, and influenced a generation....Should she be in?
> Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you future HOF'er.....Britney Spears!


Why not? She's as deserving as anyone else who fits the criteria lately.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I find it peculiar that Kate Bush's sales seem to be a closely guarded secret.
best guesses Does anyone know Kate Bush record sales to date? - The www.katebushnews.com Forum (tapatalk.com) suggest somewhere around the 20 million mark....which puts her in Queensryche territory. Queensrÿche - Wikipedia Although I love QR, being objective, as I think we all have to be and put aside our fanboy-isms, it would surprise me for them to be mentioned as HOF nominees.
Although sales shouldnt be the only criteria, it is arguably a measure of appreciation/influence. So maybe Dee does have a point.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

butterknucket said:


> Why not? She's as deserving as anyone else who fits the criteria lately.


my point exactly. yet, it doesnt feel right...or wont when her name inevitably comes up.


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Diablo said:


> my point exactly. yet, it doesnt feel right...or wont when her name inevitably comes up.


I used to feel that way, then I stopped caring and paying attention.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I'll pay attention when they induct this guy. 











He fuckin' ROCKED!



.......and he went deaf, way before it was de rigeur, a la fakers like Townshend and Gilbert. Hell, he drove himself deaf before organized electricity, which probably wasn't easy to do.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> I'll pay attention when they induct this guy.
> 
> View attachment 352151
> 
> ...


Is that Rush Limbaugh?


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)




----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Is that Rush Limbaugh?


Looks more like Heath Ledger to me.


----------



## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Diablo said:


> Its a bit silly that Devo are named, although I think a case could be made for Mark Mothersbaugh (if not now, then someday).
> 
> While I agree with 98% of your post, im curious, if you had to make a case for New Order/ Smiths, what would that be (esp vs Rage/FF)?


I suppose the case for the Smiths' and/or New Order would relate back to the induction of the Cure. The Cure, the Smiths', New Order, & let's add Depeche Mode, are the cornerstones of "Post-Punk-New-Wave" of the late 70's/early 80's. Punk was an F-You to the bloated Stadium-Rock giants. They were very raw, had something to say, but not very talented. Exceptions can be made, but overall...
Post-Punk, or New Wave, or "Second Wave" (an homage to the British Invasion of the 50's/60's) was a rebirth of musical ability, but still wanted to say something other than "I love you" and "you're so keen". They were "genre defining". There was nothing like them prior. And they have influenced other since.
_Rage_, I can agree are also genre defining. The Foo's though? They are a top selling band, no doubt. Popular, but did they cut a new swath? I don't think so.

My two cents.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

butterknucket said:


> Looks more like Heath Ledger to me.



Ellen Degeneres?


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> I think these girls are eligible next year.




If they get in, I wonder if that miserable bitch Victoria Beckham will actually smile for a change?


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> Why not? She's as deserving as anyone else who fits the criteria lately.


If Run DMC are in, then why not her?


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Ellen Degeneres?


I"m not seeing that at all, but carry on.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

butterknucket said:


> I think these girls are eligible next year.


Aren't those the "Real Housewives of Woolwich"?


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Aren't those the "Real Housewives of Woolwich"?


The Real Housewives of Woolwich are probably far more chav.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

butterknucket said:


> I"m not seeing that at all, but carry on.


Maude?


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Maude?


Nah, I'm not getting a Maude vibe either.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

butterknucket said:


> Nah, I'm not getting a Maude vibe either.


----------



## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

seeing as how no one else has mentioned it, i will, for at least the 12th time. this thread comes up at least once a year, and every year i point this out, and yet it seems to be ignored, for reasons i don't understand.

the people behind the rrhof are self appointed assholes from rolling stone magazine.

they are no more expert/credible than anyone here on this board, and i would argue, less than many of you.
fuck them, and fuck their ridiculous list. 
it's easily as bad as the constant lists from various magazines about who the top 100 guitarist/bassist/drummers/etc. are.
you know, the ones who put kurt fucking cobain higher on the list than srv. 

in my mind, the entire idea of basing someone's legitimacy to be or top such a list or hof on sales is as lame, and un rock & roll as can be. 
it should be based on how good their music was, period, the end.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> seeing as how no one else has mentioned it, i will, for at least the 12th time. this thread comes up at least once a year, and every year i point this out, and yet it seems to be ignored, for reasons i don't understand.
> 
> the people behind the rrhof are self appointed assholes from rolling stone magazine.
> 
> ...


That's a fair comment. What I will note, however, is that "the elitist assholes" are also industry people who pay attention to a lot of things that many regular folks do not. So yeah, if one happens to be an "a-hole from Rolling Stone magazine", the chances are pretty good that maybe you're a little more keenly aware of how much influence someone has had, not in terms of album sales but how often that person has been asked to produce someone else, how often they get cited by others as a major influence, how often their songs are covered by other artists, and so on. In effect, a bunch of other things that contribute to their place. So, for instance, a guy like Todd Rundgren can be a bit of an acquired taste, and may not be as widely appreciated, or have sold as many tickets as Metallica, but my goodness take a gander at the guy's production credits (Meatloaf, Grand Funk, Pursuit of Happiness,, and more Category:Albums produced by Todd Rundgren - Wikipedia ), and the number of albums he's released since the late 1960s. If that doesn't earn you a place, I don't know what does. But a lot of that is stuff that the average listener/fan pays no attention to.


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Were any of the Mini Pops ever inducted?


----------



## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

butterknucket said:


> Were any of the Mini Pops ever inducted?


That would fill the stage!! I think they had a constantly revolving stable of "Minis". One or two LP's and they were put to pasture. Otherwise it would sound like Peter Brady after a while.


----------

