# Rosewood and CITIES



## bluebayou (May 25, 2015)

There is a very good and informative story on the current state of rosewood and CITES regulations in the August issue of Acoustic Guitar (Joan Shelley is on the cover). It seems that the makers are adjusting to the new requirements. Definitely a few hiccups but it seems that all parties involved are working pretty well together to make it all work. 
what they don't cover is rosewood in existing guitars where you cannot prove provenance. For example, I bought a kit guitar from Blues Creek, who at the time was providing Martin with the kits they sold via their website. I would imagine that quite a few people here have the type of issue. Kit guitars, rosewood guitar bought second, third, fourth or whatever hand. Guitars without any maker marque that has rosewood. There are probably many more examples. 
The death of rosewood in guitars may have been premature but there are still a lot of questions.


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## Locutus_of_Tweed (Jul 13, 2017)

I have had 2 ebay purchases (Eastman OM & Gretsch Pro Jet) in the past 2 months stopped at their international centre in Erlanger and labelled as undeliverable. Makes things even more difficult for lefties.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Locutus_of_Tweed said:


> I have had 2 ebay purchases (Eastman OM & Gretsch Pro Jet) in the past 2 months stopped at their international centre in Erlanger and labelled as undeliverable. Makes things even more difficult for lefties.


Crap, I was hoping they'd turn a blind eye to guitars. What was the resolution? Were they sent back to the sender, or did the sender complete the paperwork?


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

The main issue on importing rosewood is related to the shipping aspect. The agents cannot determine that the guitar is being utilized for personal use when a guitar is shipped across the border. You can however, import the guitar without any permits if you enter the country with the instrument.

I shipped and received a few instruments with no problems in the first few months of 2017 but then decided to have the guitars shipped to a private mailbox provider on the US border. The provider receives and holds packages for a nominal fee. So far, this method has worked really well.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

I was in direct contact with the Canadian governmental arm that deals with this. The certificates are free and the 10'days. 

Photos and an explanatiOn help. 

I still haven't had to do it. Also for me buffalo is 1h away.


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## arkivel (Apr 21, 2008)

I'm normally just a lurker but I feel the need to chime in here;

Technically you need a cites certificate to bring any guitar with rosewood across the border and it can only be through a designated cites border crossing.

In practice you are probably ok to travel without a cites certificate but you are taking a senseless risk by doing so. A customs agent can confiscate any goods that contain rosewood without a certificate under the law. If that were to happen your guitar would never see the light of day again. There is no appeal process for a cites violation and no way to issue a cites certificate after the fact.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

Excellent info. Thanks. 

Do the certificates expire? The app asks for who it being sent to. I wanna get mine pre sale as most won't want to wait 2 weeks until shipment time.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

arkivel said:


> I'm normally just a lurker but I feel the need to chime in here;
> 
> Technically you need a cites certificate to bring any guitar with rosewood across the border and it can only be through a designated cites border crossing.
> 
> In practice you are probably ok to travel without a cites certificate but you are taking a senseless risk by doing so. A customs agent can confiscate any goods that contain rosewood without a certificate under the law. If that were to happen your guitar would never see the light of day again. There is no appeal process for a cites violation and no way to issue a cites certificate after the fact.


It's clearly stated that you can bring rosewood across the border as long as the value of the rosewood is under 10k. If you are selling an item that contains rosewood that's a different story.


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## Davestp1 (Apr 25, 2006)

I just received a fender 2006 US made neck w a rosewood board in a private sale over at the gearpage. No issues at all. CanadaPost/CBSA brokerage fee and 13 percent tax on the declared value of 225 US. The description on the declaration noted simply "guitar neck" and the package was not opened, just assessed for brokerage and taxes.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

That always a possibility. On the other hand, who knows how many are being scrutinized?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

if you buy from Ebay and it is stopped at the border, the seller is responsible. so if you get your guitar confiscated at the border you will be reimbursed.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

I just got a call from Lise at the office that cares for the CITES forms. they've started a program for instrument nuts like many here. 

They will allow for applications to be made without the receiver's contact info. there needs to be a cover letter stating that this guitar is for sale and that you're requesting the application to be left ready on hold for when the receiver's info is available. submissions should include photos. email submissions are acceptable. the CITES permit once ready, must be mailed out. 

so she suggests that all the guitars that are currently on the "for sale" block should have their CITES app in and on hold from when the advert. is live to not cause any extended delays.

I was told that the on hold way of applying will still take 3-6 business days depending on where you live and what day you submit your receiver's info. 

this to me is much better than the 2 weeks I was dreading.

as you were


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## arkivel (Apr 21, 2008)

knight_yyz said:


> It's clearly stated that you can bring rosewood across the border as long as the value of the rosewood is under 10k. If you are selling an item that contains rosewood that's a different story.


There is no universal CITES law. Each individual country signed to the agreement manages it with a different set of laws. US customs agents absolutely can confiscate an instrument whether it contains less than than 10kg - its not $10,000 - of listed material or even if they suspect its banned material. Of course this is unlikely to happen but overzealous border guards do exist and sometimes they create very big hassles for no apparent reason. Considering how easy it is to get a certificate in Canada why would anyone that has a need to travel with their prized guitar take such risk.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

A new regulation takes effect on January 2, 2017 that calls for documentation when shipping instruments internationally that contain any amount of _any kind_ of rosewood or certain types of bubinga.

It does not apply to instruments shipped _within_ the borders of your country or instruments carried for personal use while traveling internationally [unless they contain more than 22 lbs. (10 kg) of the regulated woods].


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