# Another Notch Up in Quality Or A Notch Up In Price



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Here is a new guitar line from Ibanez being offered as the "professional's" guitar. Is it really better than their privious quality hollow bodies or are they just marketing it with a higher price? Your thoughts?

[h=1]Ibanez AF200 Prestige Artstar Series Hollowbody Electric Guitar Brown Sunburst[/h]


Price: $2000.00 USD





[h=2]Custom-built, made-in-Japan quality for the serious professional.
[/h]Ibanez takes it up another notch with Artstar Prestige, a new line of exquisite made-in-Japan instruments. For the first time ever, Ibanez brings the crown jewel of Prestige production to its Artstar hollow body concept, making its credo: Hollowbodies of The Highest Order, a mission statement made manifest through the excellence of Artstar Prestige design and luthiery.

Those whove followed Ibanez jazz guitars through the decades may see Artstar Prestige as the completion of a circle. The guitar maker for numerous names on Downbeats Readers pollsmaster with players like George Benson and Pat Metheny are a testament to the preeminence of made-in-Japan Ibanez jazz guitars.

Artcore, Expressionist, and Artstar offer up-and-comers, inspiring instruments that won't break the bank. Now, Artstar Prestige offers custom-built, made-in-Japan quality for the serious professional. With its Brown Sunburst finish and Spruce top, Flamed Maple back and sides, a deep love of jazz history emanates from the AF200.

The luthiers skill becomes immediately apparent upon playing your first chord progression on its bound ebony fingerboard. Medium frets with meticulously hand-filed edges are buttery smooth to your chording hand. The set-in neck is immaculately joined to the body, and its Ebony bridge is the perfect blend of traditional style and technological integrity.

At the headstock end of the fingerboard is a clean, perfectly set bone nut. Rounding out this stunningly crafted piece is the famous Ibanez Super 58 pickup, known for its balanced tone character and sonic fullness, whether restrained to jazz-clean or cranked up to gritty rockin blues. Hardshell case is included.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

It's a Prestige but that doesn't mean it's worth the price. The Prestige line is known to be a definitive step up in quality among the Ibby guys, but the prices have ballooned in comparison to the quality jump over the last few years.

At least, that's what I've gathered from being on metal guitar forums (and people play jazz and classic rock covers too  ). 

Sure it's nice, but at that price point why would I not buy a used Gibson, Hamer, Heritage etc?


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

*The only way I'd know is to try it.*

I've tried some of their cheaper models (artcore) recently and thought they played very well after about 15 minutes of getting it in tune.

Buying one used might be the best route to go.


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

Budda said:


> Sure it's nice, but at that price point why would I not buy a used Gibson


The Ibanez is a better instrument than the equivalent Gibson IMO.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

LydianGuitars said:


> The Ibanez is a better instrument than the equivalent Gibson IMO.


Much Better.


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## jimmythegeek (Apr 17, 2012)

I do love my Ibanezes but I'm not sure about this. The Prestige stuff is really well built but I've noticed a general trend with I banez lately of raising prices without necessarily raising quality. The last few years of Jems are a case in point. The lowest priced ones are made Indonesia but are still awfully pricey for the finishing touches (pickups excepted). Perhaps I'm just snobby in some ways. This is probably the same attitude that people had to Japanese Fenders in the 80s which are highly regarded now. 

As for price points on this bad boy, I don't necessarily think that a Gibson or a Heritage would be a better option. Neck profiles might not work for everyone or perhaps the pickups aren't too an I dividual's taste. I know I've just questioned the quality of Indonesian Ibbys but just because something is made in the USA does not necessarily mean it is superior. Once you get to a certain point, I think you just start looking for a comfortable, reliable instrument that sounds the way you want it to.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

jimmythegeek said:


> I do love my Ibanezes but I'm not sure about this. The Prestige stuff is really well built but I've noticed a general trend with I banez lately of raising prices without necessarily raising quality. The last few years of Jems are a case in point. The lowest priced ones are made Indonesia but are still awfully pricey for the finishing touches (pickups excepted). Perhaps I'm just snobby in some ways. This is probably the same attitude that people had to Japanese Fenders in the 80s which are highly regarded now.
> 
> As for price points on this bad boy, I don't necessarily think that a Gibson or a Heritage would be a better option. Neck profiles might not work for everyone or perhaps the pickups aren't too an I dividual's taste. I know I've just questioned the quality of Indonesian Ibbys but just because something is made in the USA does not necessarily mean it is superior. Once you get to a certain point, I think you just start looking for a comfortable, reliable instrument that sounds the way you want it to.





LydianGuitars said:


> The Ibanez is a better instrument than the equivalent Gibson IMO.


I feel there are some valid points made here. I don't think there is a lot of difference in the $1000.00 Ibanez hollow body guitars to the $2000.00 Presige line. There is certainly not another $1000.00 difference.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I can't speak to the difference from direct experience, but consider that:

a) there are different grades of spruce for tops, with higher grades being more limited in availability

b) whether you feel a carved top plays better than a non-carved (but "shaped") top is separate from the additional labour involved in producing a carved top

c) bracing and kerfing can vary in terms of the amount of labour and attention they require; whether you feel it improves the tone or not is separate from the addiional labout costs

d) anything you can turn out in large quantity, using CNC or other mass production techniques, is always going to be cheaper than something you make a few hundred of a year

I won't claim that the selling price is 100% justified by these factors, but they didn't pull the price-point out of their ass, either.


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## jimmythegeek (Apr 17, 2012)

@mhammer you make some good points about labor especially when it comes to carved tops. I totally agree but I think what can rub people the wrong way is when they see companies exporting labor to places where the labor rates are considerably lower and then don't see what they consider (rightly or wrongly) a sufficient offset in price. I'm not sure that I'd ever play an Eastman guitar for that reason. While the $2000 Eastman is easily 10 times better than a $200 Chinese made student guitar they are both made in China. Expense of process aside one would have to think that the cost of human labor plays a large factor in where companies manufacture and as such, I would wonder if Chinese Eastman employees make 10 times what their counterparts at the factory that produces guitars like Denver. If so then I suppose it's a win for all concerned although if Gibson or Godin make products of similar quality and price while paying North American labour rates then you begin to question the margins that some manufacturers must be making on their guitars.


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

I'd have to agree with what mhammer and jimmythegeek I have had over the years quite a number of Hollow body guitars Gibson, Gibson and Gibson. I must admit I have never owned a Gretsch and I just might have missed something there. I have tried a number of off shore Hollow body models and I can't quite put them in the same category as the Gibson some are very nice but they just didn't make the grade in my estimation. Now this new Ibanez, I'd like to try before making any kind of judgement on it. I have only seen the picture of it and hopefully the product as a whole finish, sound and construction match the look. They will have to produce one hell of a lot better guitar to warrant the big price.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

jimmythegeek said:


> @mhammer you make some good points about labor especially when it comes to carved tops. I totally agree but I think what can rub people the wrong way is when they see companies exporting labor to places where the labor rates are considerably lower and then don't see what they consider (rightly or wrongly) a sufficient offset in price. I'm not sure that I'd ever play an Eastman guitar for that reason. While the $2000 Eastman is easily 10 times better than a $200 Chinese made student guitar they are both made in China. Expense of process aside one would have to think that the cost of human labor plays a large factor in where companies manufacture and as such, I would wonder if Chinese Eastman employees make 10 times what their counterparts at the factory that produces guitars like Denver. If so then I suppose it's a win for all concerned although if Gibson or Godin make products of similar quality and price while paying North American labour rates then you begin to question the margins that some manufacturers must be making on their guitars.


Entirely fair rebuttal. I have no way of knowing how much of the gap between the price of these Prestige instruments, and the lower priced ones is accounted for by actual labour and materials costs, and how much is a price-point selected to alter _perceptions_ of quality. I'm fairly confident both play a role. The larger question is how _*much*_ of a role each plays.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

fredyfreeloader said:


> I'd have to agree with what mhammer and jimmythegeek I have had over the years quite a number of Hollow body guitars Gibson, Gibson and Gibson. I must admit I have never owned a Gretsch and I just might have missed something there. _*I have tried a number of off shore Hollow body models and I can't quite put them in the same category as the Gibson*_ some are very nice but they just didn't make the grade in my estimation. Now this new Ibanez, I'd like to try before making any kind of judgement on it. I have only seen the picture of it and hopefully the product as a whole finish, sound and construction match the look. They will have to produce one hell of a lot better guitar to warrant the big price.


Does that include the Ibanez AF-100 series?


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

The ibanez models, as they go up in price also feel better made--not just better materials or more bling.
My AF95 is fancier than the AF75 and cost more (Although nowhere near what this one does)
But it wasn't just the fancier look I paid more for--the wood was different, and the sound was better.
And it felt better made and it played better.

And I tried an AF75 before I even saw an AF95-and I liked the AF75--but the AF95 is better and worth it
At the time one store also had an AF125 and it was even fancier--but also it was better sounding and played better as well--but the difference in price wasn't one I could justify--but if I'd had the extra cash I may have bought the AF125.

If this newer one is better n those ways, it might be worth it.
But I wouldn't say it definitively is better or worse than other Ibanez guitars or a used Gibson, because I haven't checked them out.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

oh good..it's Ibanez this time


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Bubb said:


> oh good..it's Ibanez this time




it's all about perception. the horse is dead for you, because you've had enough of debating the issue. for others who haven't accepted that they wont be able to convince people to change their minds, the horse is alive and healthy. 

kinda reminds me of talking about religion. hahahahaa


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