# Best PC based guitar software



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm considering moving towards PC based amp effect simulators..any suggestions on software that is not only fun, but a good learning tool such as riffstation etc?
I only have an older laptop (4-5 years old) so it cant be too resource heavy


----------



## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

I would strongly suggest you try SGear for Amp replacement.


----------



## Guest (Oct 9, 2017)

What are you looking for in an amp? High gain? Clean to medium?

I bought Scuffham S-Gear. It was better and more amp feeling and sounding for me. I use my pedalboard into an RME Babyface Pro into Studio One Pro then S-Gear. 

I tried the demos for all the other amps before buying. 
I think Positive Grid Bias FX is known more for high gain. 
Amplitube is another to look at. 
Then there is also Guitar Rig 5 Pro, Brainworx, Line6 Helix etc...
Here is a good article to start with: List of Best Free and Paid Guitar Amp Sims | Masters of Music

I suggest you get the demos of the different amp sims, and try them and see what works for you. You won't go wrong with S-Gear.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks guys. I inherited an older laptop which I was planning on putting all of my music on and leaving it in my guitar space so I can jam & learn new stuff. 

I figured that if I was going to make this a music specific PC, then I should see what else I can do with it. It does not need to be amp simulators per se, though that sounds like fun. 
I don't plan on getting into recording, but one thing that I would like is to be able to mix guitar signals with what I am playing to through into headphones for playing late at night if thats a possibility. Sometimes I have a hard time hearing the details of what is being played through speakers, and hearing myself at the same time, so here's where I wondered if riffstation might be a good choice.

I should mention that this PC currently has no internet capabilities, so whatever I install has to be complete plug and play unless I can fix the issue. (something wrong with the connection through wi-fi and the ethernet cable port is buggered - looking into a USB solution)


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Player99 said:


> What are you looking for in an amp? High gain? Clean to medium?
> 
> I bought Scuffham S-Gear. It was better and more amp feeling and sounding for me. I use my pedalboard into an RME Babyface Pro into Studio One Pro then S-Gear.
> 
> ...


I like a range of gain from clean to medium gain (blues, rock & hard rock - like a mix of Brit and US sound )


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

What are you going to use as an audio interface?

Are you going to run powered monitors out of the interface? 

I'll be following this thread...very exciting!

BTW...PM me if you want some music files for your hard drive.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks Dave, I haven't got a clue really..I know absolutely nothing about this stuff. (I'm more a hands on with tools guy than work with electronics/computers guy)

Eventually I will go with powered monitors. For now I'm just patching music into my old receiver and using those speakers

What do you use as an interface? I think you told me once, but I can't recall

Appreciate the offer BTW


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

After my short and unsuccessful career as a recording artist, I sold my Roland Duo Capture interface to someone in this forum that was looking for one of those specifically. I ran my Mackie powered monitors (that you built the stands for) directly out of my Mac Mini. 

A few weeks after that I treated myself to new monitors and was told that I needed an interface to get the best sound (the Duo Capture would have been perfect for that...DOH).

I bought a used Scarlett 2i2 from L&M for $100.00 at the time I bought the monitors. It was not working properly (problems with the main volume pot) and I returned it and was sold an ART Project Series USB Mix for $80.00. It is fine, as I'm only running the monitors through it.

I think that all interfaces will have a headphones jack.

Of all of these units, I think the Scarlett 2i2 was the nicest form a design perspective. Others can advise you as to what they suggest and why.










Powered near field monitors are wonderful (IMO). However, you might prefer your existing system as (I assume) it will give you a bit more 'freedom' regarding where you sit relative to the speakers. Maybe I am wrong about this. 
Other will correct me and assist you.

Cheers

Dave


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

greco said:


> After my short and unsuccessful career as a recording artist, I sold my Roland Duo Capture interface to someone in this forum that was looking for one of those specifically. I ran my Mackie powered monitors (that you built the stands for) directly out of my Mac Mini.
> 
> A few weeks after that I treated myself to new monitors and was told that I needed an interface to get the best sound (the Duo Capture would have been perfect for that...DOH).
> 
> ...


Great, thanks Dave, good stuff to know


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

This thread is going to be interesting. I, too, would like to use some computer based modelling software. I don't record or anything, I just want to experiment. 

One question though - I run my desktop through my Kenwood mini-system and ise that to listen to music, watch TV online, etc. Basically all of the sound from my computer comes through the Kenwood. Am I right in assuming that I wouldn't need monitors and could just use the setup that I am currently using?


----------



## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

After getting TH3 I moved the making of my second album completely in the box, you can get a very functional free version with three amps, 3 cabs and 4 pedals here Overloud Exclusive TH3 Time and Space Free Edition(Download) - Time+Space | Virtual Instruments, VST Plug-ins, Effects Plug-ins and Samples for Music Production

Here are some examples of the sound 










Second after TH3 I will name Amplitube custom shop and third would be Peavey ReValver. Amplitube includes a multitrack that can be used for practice and ReValver has some nice technology that worth checking.


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

I too use the Scarlett 2i2 to record with Audacity. Works fine with me.
Look them up used on Reverb or Guitar Center, you can find one to under $100. Got mine for $75.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

colchar said:


> ..... Basically all of the sound from my computer comes through the Kenwood. Am I right in assuming that I wouldn't need monitors and could just use the setup that I am currently using?


I am going to say Yes, your assumption is correct.
I used to do something similar.


----------



## Guest (Oct 9, 2017)

Some software have stand alone amp sims, so you don't have to run the signal through a DAW (digital audio workstation, or the recording software). If you aren't going to record (which is sort of a mistake, why not record?) then it would be good to get a stand alone amp sim.

The other thing to know about is latency. When the signal goes into the computer and back out to the speakers the time it takes to do this is called "round trip latency". Some interface units cause such a delay that it is impossible to monitor your playing as you record listening to your guitar and other tracks. When recording or just monitoring, the signal goes into the interface, is converted to digital, goes into the computer, goes into the DAW, out of the DAW, into the interface, converted to analog, then to the speakers. The time this takes is the "round trip latency" or RTL.

If the latency is between 0-5 milliseconds, there won't be anyone having problems. From 5-10 milliseconds some people will be bothered by the delay. Over 10 milliseconds pretty much everyone will have a problem with the delay. The delay will adversely effect performance.

Some units get around this by using "DIRECT MONITORING". This is when the signal goes into the unit, and into the computer, but also goes directly out of the box and into the headphones, so you are not going through the PC, but directly from the box back out to you. This is problematic as you cannot use the plugins from the PC because the signal you are hearing does not go into the PC. If you are micing your amp, then you will be OK, but if you are trying to use software effects, not so good. A way some companies get around this is to have a processor in the interface that hosts effects so you can still do the direct monitoring but get effects as well. (Not a good solution without spending money. Universal Audio is one unit that does this. You have to use their plugins and they can get pricey.)

RME interfaces like the Babyface Pro is so efficient that it will allow for the RTL with pretty much no RTL latency. That is what I use. There are some other unit that are low latency as well. If I remember correctly the lower cost Zoom units are low latency.

Once you get an interface, I would get the free version of Amplitube to start. I think it also has a stand alone free version. I think you will need to be hooked to the internet for most of these units to get installed or registered though. If money is not an issue get the Scuffham S-Gear amp sim and it will make you happy.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Looks like SGear requires more power requirements than this thing has (calls for a min of 2.0ghz & 2gm ram, and this thing only has 1.8 ghz)

Does anyone know how much riffstation needs? I cannot find what it requires on their website

On the upside, I got the wi-fi to work. Not overly speedy, but at least I can install updates


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2017)

Scotty said:


> Looks like SGear requires more power requirements than this thing has (calls for a min of 2.0ghz & 2gm ram, and this thing only has 1.8 ghz)
> 
> Does anyone know how much riffstation needs? I cannot find what it requires on their website
> 
> On the upside, I got the wi-fi to work. Not overly speedy, but at least I can install updates


Go get Amplitube 4 Free.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Player99 said:


> Go get Amplitube 4 Free.


Thanks - looks great. Does not say what it requires as far as processor speed goes and needs an ASIO compatible sound card. How do I find more info about the sound card? It only says "realtek"


----------



## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

L&M has this USB interface on special for October. 

ART Pro Audio

For a starter interface, it’s pretty slick. Can’t beat the price either.


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2017)

Scotty said:


> Thanks - looks great. Does not say what it requires as far as processor speed goes and needs an ASIO compatible sound card. How do I find more info about the sound card? It only says "realtek"


Your interface converter will be your sound card. Usually the interface (technically a sound card) will also send the signal to your speakers. This signal is usually unpowered, so you will need powered speakers or a stereo amp type thing. You can go out to your PC sound card and speakers as well, just not the thing most people do. I think your Realtek onboard card will work for output if you need it to. But you still need an interface, and as I said most people use the interface for incoming sound as well as outgoing.


----------



## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

If it's realtek then you have to install asio4all so you don't have latency.


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2017)

Lord-Humongous said:


> L&M has this USB interface on special for October.
> 
> ART Pro Audio
> 
> For a starter interface, it’s pretty slick. Can’t beat the price either.


The thing is what is the true RTL of the unit?


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2017)

From the ART Pro description: "The USB interface is fully compliant with the USB 1.1 specification and uses USB adaptive mode for playback and USB asynchronous mode for record."

I think the "USB asynchronous mode for record" is direct recording, so you would not get to run it into the computer that way, so no amp sims without latency. Potentially.


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2017)

You might even be able to go into the microphone in on the pc soundcard. Get a 1/4" mono to 1/8" mono adapter and plug into the microphone in on your sound card. There may be issues, perhaps a pedal will help this. Guitar in is supposed to be high Z.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks again guys. I will need a USB connection, there is no mic input on this (don't forget it is a basic laptop - no disc drive even)



amagras said:


> If it's realtek then you have to install asio4all so you don't have latency.


Excellent, thank you


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@Scotty "Dazed and Confused" yet?

Jeff Carter at L&M in Cambridge is an excellent fellow to help you with all of this type of thing. I have known him for years. Very nice fellow and this is his speciality. He has an article in the 2017/2018 L&M Catalogue. Take your computer with you and start from there.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

greco said:


> @Scotty "Dazed and Confused" yet?
> 
> Jeff Carter at L&M in Cambridge is an excellent fellow to help you with all of this type of thing. I have known him for years. Very nice fellow and this is his speciality. He has an article in the 2017/2018 L&M Catalogue. Take your computer with you and start from there.


Quite!
Thanks Dave, I'm going to do just that. I really appreciate that suggestion


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Scotty said:


> Quite!
> Thanks Dave, I'm going to do just that. I really appreciate that suggestion


I forgot to mention...phone ahead to make sure he is working when you are planning to go over. His hours seem to be all over the place.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I found that amp sims are so good for home use that I sold my guitar amp, (Fender Blues Jr) and all my pedals except my wah. Everything else is in the box. Tonnes of different amp sims, lots of effects. And the bottom line is it sounds good. It got to the point where I recorded the same guitar parts through the amp sim and by micing my Fender Blues Jr and I couldn't tell the difference.

I record through an old cheap M-Audio Fast Track Pro into Reaper and the amp sim I use is Guitar Rig 4. This was recorded with Guitar Rig 4. One side is Fender Twin + Tube Screamer the other is cranked Marshall. Sim of course.


__
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fguncho%2Ffunky-blues


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2017)

I remember when I was shopping last year this unit was new and supposedly very low latency.

Zoom - 24-bit/192 kHz 2x2 USB 3.0 Audio Interface










$320 CAD + tax at L&M. Not sure if you have USB 3, so it might not be as fast with USB 2. Not sure.

There are other Zoom units, from $140 up. I am not sure if they are as fast as this one or not.
Audio Recording Interfaces, Audio Interfaces for Sale


----------



## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

My suggestion for an audio interface for home is this 

Behringer - 2x2 USB Audio Interface w/MIDAS Mic Preamp

There's a version with just one preamp that's even cheaper.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Guncho said:


> I found that amp sims are so good for home use that I sold my guitar amp, (Fender Blues Jr) and all my pedals except my wah. Everything else is in the box. Tonnes of different amp sims, lots of effects. And the bottom line is it sounds good. It got to the point where I recorded the same guitar parts through the amp sim and by micing my Fender Blues Jr and I couldn't tell the difference.
> [/MEDIA]



For home players, one does have to wonder if going to software and/or a modeller might not be the best route. Yes, the high quality stuff can be expensive, but so can decent tube amps. But unlike that tube amp, when you buy the expensive stuff you get dozens of amps - plus cabs, mics, and countless effects. Feel like playing a country song? Just load up a Fender Twin (that has controllable volume). Feel like playing some '80s metal? A quick switch and you've got a JCM800 (again with controllable volume). Feel like playing some early Beatles? Another quick switch and you've got yourself a Vox.

The main downside would be how complex some of this stuff is because I could see one getting so into tweaking that they would waste time better spent playing. But if one could ignore the tweakability and just take amps and effects as presented (ie. just stick a Tube Screamer in front of your Twin rather than wasting time choosing a specific Tube Screamer or which chip was in the one you were using) then stuff like this offers unbelievable flexibility.

I like my Marshall, but I also like the idea of having several of them plus a bunch of other amps too. I am not the most technically proficient person in the world but if I could find software or a modeller that didn't involve a steep learning curve I would have to give some serious thought to switching. Playing through my computer, or using a modeller with a half decent monitor, would also enable me to get the sound of cranked amps at normal TV volume levels.


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2017)

^ Once I got good sounds from my software I haven't turned on an amp. Amps get loud. The volume just keeps creeping up.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Player99 said:


> ^ Once I got good sounds from my software I haven't turned on an amp. Amps get loud. The volume just keeps creeping up.



I really need to take some time to read through the options, both software and modellers. Maybe I can do that during Christmas holidays when I have time to waste. As I said, I like my Marshall (Vintage Modern 2266C) but if I could get a ton of flexibility and controllable volume then it might well be worth making the switch. And if I could get a decent price when selling it, I could then purchase something else without too much cash outlay.

I kind of want to make the switch, but just need something to push me over the edge.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Here you go.

Pretty sure Amplitude have a standalone player so you don't need a DAW to use it.

All you would do is install the standalone player, plug your guitar into your interface and you're off to the races.

IK Multimedia. Musicians First.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Player99 said:


> ^ Once I got good sounds from my software I haven't turned on an amp. Amps get loud. The volume just keeps creeping up.


That's the problem I'm having. Don't get me wrong, I like it loud. I don't like it extremely loud. But I find that I turn the volume up on the stereo and then the amp and then the stereo then the amp...I find it difficult to play to lower-level stereo volumes because I can't hear. I'm running 2 pairs of 2 way speakers, both sets aimed at my chair.

Here's where I'm hoping I can mix the music and guitar signal together and play through headphones or monitors


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Scotty said:


> Here's where I'm hoping I can mix the music and guitar signal together and play through headphones or monitors


Now I understand what you are trying to do (I think). 
It is as though you are picking a song (e.g., an mp3) to use as a 'backing track' and mixing your guitar signal and the amp/pedal sims in with it ...Correct? 
COOL!

I'm not sure how you would do that ...or if it is possible.
I await the responses of those with knowledge and experience.



Scotty said:


> I'm running 2 pairs of 2 way speakers, both sets aimed at my chair.


Now this pic makes much , much more sense...LOL


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I like S-Gear. I just did this a couple of minutes ago. One take using @dolphinstreet kindly provided backing track. Just chose a preset at random after dropping the backing track into Sonar. Interface is an old M-Audio Fast Track pro. Excuse the clams etc.


__
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fdavetcan%2Fthrill-is-gone-dt


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

davetcan said:


> I just did this a couple of minutes ago. One take using @dolphinstreet kindly provided backing track.


Excellent!!

Clams...schmams!!

B.B. would be proud of what you did.


----------



## Guest (Oct 10, 2017)

greco said:


> Now I understand what you are trying to do (I think).
> It is as though you are picking a song (e.g., an mp3) to use as a 'backing track' and mixing your guitar signal and the amp/pedal sims in with it ...Correct?
> COOL!
> I'm not sure how you would do that ...or if it is possible.
> I await the responses of those with knowledge and experience.


That would be easy. Play the mp3 on Winamp or some player. Run the guitar through the amp sim. Adjust volume to suit. My setup with an i7 lets me run the guitar through the interface and out my recording monitors (nearfields with flat response) and my Windows audio to go out the onboard sound. So I am running 2 sound cards technically. I am pretty sure I can make the guitar audio go through the Windows audio as well as the mp3 player.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Player99 said:


> That would be easy. .


This is good news!


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Volume is a big issue for me. I have noise induced hearing loss and, when listening to something that is too loud (too loud for my ears, which can actually be fairly reasonable to normal ears), my ears will crackle. It kind of sounds like a blown speaker. Because of that, I can't get the power tubes on my amp cooking. One of the attractions of this kind of stuff (software or modellers) is the ability to get the sound of a pushed amp at lower volume levels. I wonder if I should start exploring things like Fractal, Eleven Rack (out of production so available at knock-down prices), Helix, etc.?

Another option that I have considered is to go to a solid state amp so that it sounds the same no matter the volume level.

But a concern of mine with stuff like this is whether the sound would be too hi-fi stereo like )that is a crap way to describe it but is all I can come up with). I used to have a Hughes & Kettner amp that sounded like that. It was a tube amp, but had a stereo like quality that I didn't like.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Still running into issues... Amplitube requires a core2 duo processor whereas this thing only has the core i5-3337u. 

I might have to keep looking for something that works with this thing or bite the bullet and buy a new PC before anything. Amplitube looks amazing


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

colchar said:


> Volume is a big issue for me. I have noise induced hearing loss and, when listening to something that is too loud (too loud for my ears, which can actually be fairly reasonable to normal ears), my ears will crackle. It kind of sounds like a blown speaker. Because of that, I can't get the power tubes on my amp cooking. One of the attractions of this kind of stuff (software or modellers) is the ability to get the sound of a pushed amp at lower volume levels. I wonder if I should start exploring things like Fractal, Eleven Rack (out of production so available at knock-down prices), Helix, etc.?
> 
> Another option that I have considered is to go to a solid state amp so that it sounds the same no matter the volume level.
> 
> But a concern of mine with stuff like this is whether the sound would be too hi-fi stereo like )that is a crap way to describe it but is all I can come up with). I used to have a Hughes & Kettner amp that sounded like that. It was a tube amp, but had a stereo like quality that I didn't like.


The 11 rack is excellent but can be a bit of a pain to set up, once you get there though it really is terrific.

For the best of both worlds the Fender Mustang III is outstanding. You need to download the Fuse software to get into the deep editing but it's easy and sounds fantastic. Plus there is a direct out for going into the computer interface, mono or stereo. An all around great amp. I keep thinking I'll sell mine but can't force myself to do it yet


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

amagras said:


> After getting TH3 I moved the making of my second album completely in the box, you can get a very functional free version with three amps, 3 cabs and 4 pedals here Overloud Exclusive TH3 Time and Space Free Edition(Download) - Time+Space | Virtual Instruments, VST Plug-ins, Effects Plug-ins and Samples for Music Production
> 
> Here are some examples of the sound
> 
> ...


Admittedly I passed the TH3 up because I didn't like the sound demos and the actual TH3 amps in person... and because the Amplitude stuff looked so good , but this works as far as system requirements goes. 

Looking into the Peavy ReValver


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

greco said:


> Now this pic makes much , much more sense...LOL


I know!! Only with a guitar in hand....


@davetcan & @Guncho, your sound clips sounded great btw


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Scotty said:


> ... bite the bullet and buy a new PC before anything.


Bite that bullet! That is the right stuff, my friend!
Very admirable! Keep the Canadian economy afloat! I'm with you 100%

Get a new PC, interface, monitors and...How is you car doing these days?
...What the heck...you should treat yourself well, you deserve it.

Can I come with you and help you spend, er... invest, your cash?

All the above was meant in fun...you do realize that.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

davetcan said:


> The 11 rack is excellent but can be a bit of a pain to set up, once you get there though it really is terrific.


What is it about the setup that is problematic?

I would have to check out how many amps, effects, etc. that it offers because it is out of production so there will be no more updates. If I am fine with what they offer then great, who cares if there are no more updates.




> For the best of both worlds the Fender Mustang III is outstanding. You need to download the Fuse software to get into the deep editing but it's easy and sounds fantastic. Plus there is a direct out for going into the computer interface, mono or stereo. An all around great amp. I keep thinking I'll sell mine but can't force myself to do it yet



I had one for a little while but never really bothered with the amp sims. I set it to one amp and then messed around with effects. Are the amp sims decent?


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Scotty said:


> Still running into issues... Amplitube requires a core2 duo processor whereas this thing only has the core i5-3337u.
> 
> I might have to keep looking for something that works with this thing or bite the bullet and buy a new PC before anything. Amplitube looks amazing



That is a dual core processor is it not?


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

greco said:


> Bite that bullet! That is the right stuff, my friend!
> Very admirable! Keep the Canadian economy afloat! I'm with you 100%
> 
> Get a new PC, interface, monitors and...How is you car doing these days?
> ...


Indeed! 

So you are still willing to be my broker?

meaning, if I buy all that stuff...I will be broke


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Scotty said:


> Indeed!
> So you are still willing to be my broker?
> meaning, if I buy all that stuff...I will be broke


I'll make sure that you save enough to buy us each a coffee and a donut after buying all that stuff.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

colchar said:


> That is a dual core processor is it not?


I believe so, I'm not a pc tech guy. If I read it right, it is a cheaper processor which is designed to use less power but does a substantially smaller cache (assuming it pales in comparison) was something like 6mb to .5mb difference between the cache size

edit, here's a link if you are interested
Intel Core2 Duo E8290 vs Core i5 3337U


----------



## Guest (Oct 11, 2017)

Scotty said:


> Still running into issues... Amplitube requires a core2 duo processor whereas this thing only has the core i5-3337u.
> 
> I might have to keep looking for something that works with this thing or bite the bullet and buy a new PC before anything. Amplitube looks amazing


Core2 Duo is way older and slower than your i5. With your i5 you will be good to go. How much ram do you have? 2 hard drives are also good to have when recording. One for the programs and the other for the data and file read write. You for now are just looking to run a stand alone amp sim... They will have some effects, but for the full experience it will be worth looking at some sort of DAW software to host what you want. I find EZ Drummer and Superior Drummer are great drum sims for jamming and developing songs. Reaper is good and has an unlimited demo for free. Then if you want to do the right thing you can pay the $60 or whatever it is now. There are so many free guitar fx sims pedals that it's worth digging into the DAW world. Then one day you will start to record yourself and a whole new world opens up.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Player99 said:


> Core2 Duo is way older and slower than your i5.


That is what I thought. Both my laptop and desktop have the i5 processor (the one in the desktop is faster than in the laptop) and both computers are less than a year old.


----------



## Guest (Oct 11, 2017)

Another recording program to get started with is Riffworks. It has a free version and the fully version is $50 USD. I paid more years ago. It has built in drummers, and It even comes with Amplitube or did years ago. It lets you make up stuff on a timeline, and has a built in drummer. You can then buy more drums, but the demo drums are great on their own. For what they give. After you record stuff in blocks, you arrange the blocks on the top as in INTRO-VERSE-CHORUS-VERSE-ENDING etc.

Sonoma Wire Works: RiffWorks Standard Guitar Recording Software

-Looks like the free version (T4) is temporarily unavailable. Hopefully the link will be back up shortly.


----------



## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Scotty said:


> Admittedly I passed the TH3 up because I didn't like the sound demos and the actual TH3 amps in person... and because the Amplitude stuff looked so good , but this works as far as system requirements goes.
> 
> Looking into the Peavy ReValver


How can you pass on a software that is free without even trying only because of the audio demos? I probably don't even make the same type of music you do. 
Are you by any chance listening on the speakers of your laptop?

I will repeat this because I consider you will save some money if you finally decide to try TH3 on your own: you get a fender twin reverb, Marshall and MesaBoogie amps, a TubeScreamer, a CE2, univibe and reverb pedals, 3 cabs 4x12, 2x12 greenbacks and 1x12. They all sound like the real deal or at least no less than others with far more hype.

Anyway, let me spoil your next search with more demo videos re ReValver  





This you might find useful:


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

colchar said:


> What is it about the setup that is problematic?
> 
> I would have to check out how many amps, effects, etc. that it offers because it is out of production so there will be no more updates. If I am fine with what they offer then great, who cares if there are no more updates.
> 
> ...


Most of the "issues" with the 11 rack set up are old software related. If you're running a Windows 10 machine you'll have to get a bit creative but it can be made to work, that's how I last used it. Same goes with the stand alone editor, which is a must if you're not going to use Pro Tools. If you're a little bit computer savvy then you'll be able to get it to work.

As for the Mustang I'll be honest and say I don't worry about things like amp sims, same goes for any modeling amp or software that I've used. What I care about is can I get a good clean tone, a good OD tone, good distortion? Are the effects any good? Can I run my own pedals into it? If it checks all those boxes then I'm happy.

As I use Sonar, which also has a ton of built in fx and sims, I really don't worry too much about recording. If you want to use it live then that's a different set of criteria. With the 11 rack you're into power amps and speaker cabs. With the Mustang you just pick it up and go.

It's taken a lot of years to realize I still sound like me regardless of what I plug into. That's not a good thing


----------



## WhiskyJack1977 (Nov 10, 2016)

Scotty said:


> I'm considering moving towards PC based amp effect simulators..any suggestions on software that is not only fun, but a good learning tool such as riffstation etc?
> I only have an older laptop (4-5 years old) so it cant be too resource heavy


3

Not sure if i am late to this party or not, but for what it is worth, the LePou Hybrit is a fantastic amp sim. I have some really extensive speaker IR files that really make the tone you can get from it almost infinite. And if need be i also have a paid for version of Amplitube and i'll run it behind the hybrit to utilize some other speaker/cab/mic sims. Even if you just got your self the LePou and the free demo of amplitube would get you up and running. If you were to PM me i could get you some of the speaker IR files too! 

I can't really comment on effects and stuff because i am not an effects kind of guy. I have an IR file for Holy Grail reverb and thats about all i use, however, i know amplitube has a wealth of "effects pedals" available but they charge a few bucks for them. I mean they are notable cheaper than an actual pedal *AND* you have the option to demo anything amplitube has to offer for three days before committing to a purchase so they are very reasonable in that respect. I am actually demoing their Soldano amp model and i am quite smitten with it. I will likely spend the 35 bucks on it. 

I would however recommend updating your computer for sure if you can, i do understand that is much easier said than done. DAW based recording has come a very long way in the last, say, 5-8 years and it is no where as resource heavy as it used to be. I used to use Nuendo, Protools and Sonar and i found them to be resource hogs (also very discouraging when your PC crashes or freezes mid tracking). I made the switch to Reaper in 2010 and i would honestly need a pretty amazing argument to get me to leave Reaper to go back to any of the "industry standard" DAW software. It is lightweight, easy on the CPU, looks slick, has a great user based community and does all the same stuff ProTools does in better package IMHO. So, if you can't update your computer i would at, at the very least, consider downloading Reaper and using it. It is also fully functional in the free "demo" version but you won't be able to run updates at all unless you pay your 60 dollars for a license.

You can easily move your whole set up inside a computer if you wanted to?


----------



## dolphinstreet (Sep 11, 2006)

Sounds nice, mate.


----------



## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

I have an 11r and use it on its own. I mean, I have never plugged it into a computer, it is a computer. So unless you want to record, you can use it as an amp and effect simulator stand-alone. I run it through a keyboard amp sometimes, and just through headphones sometimes. It's a pretty good practice tool, I definitely wouldn't leave the house with it though in lieu of an amp. 

And I don't think anyone has mentioned it but if you have an iRig (or similar device), you can run your guitar through your iPad/iPhone. I use a 'free' program from Bias FX called Jam Up and it allows me to play my Spotify playlist and jam along with it through a limited selection of their (Bias FX) software amps. It's useful as a practice tool because it all comes mixed through your headphones. I mention this only because that's kind of what the OP wanted to do originally,_ I think_.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

davetcan said:


> Most of the "issues" with the 11 rack set up are old software related. If you're running a Windows 10 machine you'll have to get a bit creative but it can be made to work, that's how I last used it. Same goes with the stand alone editor, which is a must if you're not going to use Pro Tools. If you're a little bit computer savvy then you'll be able to get it to work.


I'm running Windows 7 on both of my machines. As for the machines themselves, they are both less than a year old and are running i5 processors.

I'm not overly computer savvy but can follow instructions if they are available online.






> It's taken a lot of years to realize I still sound like me regardless of what I plug into. That's not a good thing




I sound like ass no matter what I play through.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Lord-Humongous said:


> I have an 11r and use it on its own. I mean, I have never plugged it into a computer, it is a computer. So unless you want to record, you can use it as an amp and effect simulator stand-alone. I run it through a keyboard amp sometimes, and just through headphones sometimes. It's a pretty good practice tool, I definitely wouldn't leave the house with it though in lieu of an amp.



I only play at home and would be interested in a unit like that due to the versatility of being able to switch amps with the touch of a button.

If I did go for an 11 Rack, Helix, or similar unit what is required for speakers - could I simply but a cab and use that or would I need other speakers?


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

colchar said:


> I only play at home and would be interested in a unit like that due to the versatility of being able to switch amps with the touch of a button.
> 
> If I did go for an 11 Rack, Helix, or similar unit what is required for speakers - could I simply but a cab and use that or would I need other speakers?


Here are a couple from the archives. This one was completely recorded using the 11 rack for all guitars and vocals, including a bass sim that i was able to play on my Strat. Can't remember where I got the drums from  Yes, I sing about as well as I play guitar :-(


__
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fdavetcan%2Flove-to-change-11-rack-final

This one is a live recording using a Traynor Quarterhorse to power the 11 rack and just running it into a 1x12 cab.


__
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fdavetcan%2F11r-and-quarterhorse


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

davetcan said:


> Yes, I sing about as well as I play guitar
> 
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fdavetcan%2Flove-to-change-11-rack-final


And you do both of those VERY WELL!! 

CONGRATS!..Wonderful song!


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

amagras said:


> After getting TH3 I moved the making of my second album completely in the box, you can get a very functional free version with three amps, 3 cabs and 4 pedals here Overloud Exclusive TH3 Time and Space Free Edition(Download) - Time+Space | Virtual Instruments, VST Plug-ins, Effects Plug-ins and Samples for Music Production
> 
> Here are some examples of the sound
> 
> ...


You're on some completely other planet when it comes to guitar playing. You'd even make this sound good


----------



## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

davetcan said:


> You're on some completely other planet when it comes to guitar playing. You'd even make this sound good


That is extremely inspiring to hear, specially coming from an inspired musician like yourself Dave, thanks!


----------



## Guest (Oct 11, 2017)

I would definitely use S-Gear live, if I was so inclined to set up that system. I would take my pedals --> Babyface Pro interface --> Laptop ---> S-Gear --> Speaker Out from the Babyface --> EHX Magnum 44 (44 watt amp in a small pedal) --> PA Speaker or Guitar Speaker.


----------



## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

colchar said:


> If I did go for an 11 Rack, Helix, or similar unit what is required for speakers - could I simply but a cab and use that or would I need other speakers?


There are a few options, but you would probably be happiest with some powered full range speakers if you are just using it at home. Before I got my keyboard amp, I used a pair of powered computer speakers from our old desktop. They sounded remarkably good with the 11r. Remember, it has cab simulation, so you don’t need guitar speakers per se. In fact, I think you would change the sound by running it through a traditional amp/cab.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Lord-Humongous said:


> There are a few options, but you would probably be happiest with some powered full range speakers if you are just using it at home. Before I got my keyboard amp, I used a pair of powered computer speakers from our old desktop. They sounded remarkably good with the 11r. Remember, it has cab simulation, so you don’t need guitar speakers per se. In fact, I think you would change the sound by running it through a traditional amp/cab.


Agreed. The live clip I posted was just through a regular 1x12 guitar cab, the 11 rack sounds much better through my studio monitors, and even better still through my PA.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Player99 said:


> Another recording program to get started with is Riffworks. It has a free version and the fully version is $50 USD. I paid more years ago. It has built in drummers, and It even comes with Amplitube or did years ago. It lets you make up stuff on a timeline, and has a built in drummer. You can then buy more drums, but the demo drums are great on their own. For what they give. After you record stuff in blocks, you arrange the blocks on the top as in INTRO-VERSE-CHORUS-VERSE-ENDING etc.
> 
> Sonoma Wire Works: RiffWorks Standard Guitar Recording Software
> 
> -Looks like the free version (T4) is temporarily unavailable. Hopefully the link will be back up shortly.


This sounds like a good start. Are they drum tracks that lay down as you are playing, or do you arrange them over top of your recording?




amagras said:


> How can you pass on a software that is free without even trying only because of the audio demos? I probably don't even make the same type of music you do.
> Are you by any chance listening on the speakers of your laptop?
> 
> I will repeat this because I consider you will save some money if you finally decide to try TH3 on your own: you get a fender twin reverb, Marshall and MesaBoogie amps, a TubeScreamer, a CE2, univibe and reverb pedals, 3 cabs 4x12, 2x12 greenbacks and 1x12. They all sound like the real deal or at least no less than others with far more hype.
> ...


The TH3 sounds good, and I think I will give it a look. Free software is good, though I don't want spend lots of data on this slow and expensive plan, so I'm tying to research and choose wisely be it a purchased software or freeware. Time is valuable too. The Revalver also looks quite good.

Playing through headphones to start, monitors down the road. I really don't think laptop speakers will make the grade...(??)



WhiskyJack1977 said:


> 3
> 
> Not sure if i am late to this party or not, but for what it is worth, the LePou Hybrit is a fantastic amp sim. I have some really extensive speaker IR files that really make the tone you can get from it almost infinite. And if need be i also have a paid for version of Amplitube and i'll run it behind the hybrit to utilize some other speaker/cab/mic sims. Even if you just got your self the LePou and the free demo of amplitube would get you up and running. If you were to PM me i could get you some of the speaker IR files too!
> 
> ...


I buggered the wi-fi trying to install a booster, so its off at my PC repair guys. Glad to hear the i5 is better than expected, but we'll see what he's able to do with it and whether its worth using. Like the sound of Reaper also. Like you, I'm more of an amp tone guy, though I like small doses of stereo and different reverbs. Wondering if using an EP pedal will still be possible - My Strat NEEDS it through an amp and benefits through my G3 and headphones. 
BTW, thanks for the speaker IR file offer!!



greco said:


> And you do both of those VERY WELL!!
> 
> CONGRATS!..Wonderful song!


Agreed!! @davetcan that sounded great. I've always been an AL/TYA fan. Nicely done!



Player99 said:


> I would definitely use S-Gear live, if I was so inclined to set up that system. I would take my pedals --> Babyface Pro interface --> Laptop ---> S-Gear --> Speaker Out from the Babyface --> EHX Magnum 44 (44 watt amp in a small pedal) --> PA Speaker or Guitar Speaker.


So you can use pedals over top?


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Scotty said:


> So you can use pedals over top?


Here's a demo. (def NOT me)


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

davetcan said:


> Here's a demo. (def NOT me)


That is way cool. The thing I like about new gear is it brings out new ideas. That guy has a nice bag of tricks


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Lord-Humongous said:


> And I don't think anyone has mentioned it but if you have an iRig (or similar device), you can run your guitar through your iPad/iPhone. I use a 'free' program from Bias FX called Jam Up and it allows me to play my Spotify playlist and jam along with it through a limited selection of their (Bias FX) software amps. It's useful as a practice tool because it all comes mixed through your headphones. I mention this only because that's kind of what the OP wanted to do originally,_ I think_.


It is part of what I'd like to do, yes. I borrowed a co-workers interface for garage band or something and it was fun, though it was terrible to try and navigate with the phone I had at the time. If I had an Ipad/tablet, it would be much easier.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Scotty said:


> That is way cool.


PSSSSSST...Smooth jazz warning.


----------



## Guest (Oct 13, 2017)

Scotty said:


> That is way cool. The thing I like about new gear is it brings out new ideas. That guy has a nice bag of tricks


Just think of the amp sim the same as a guitar amplifier. If you use pedals with your amp, you can use them with the sim. You say earlier about going over the top the of amp... not sure what you are asking, but again, use exactly like a regular amp.

The drums in Riffworks are available before and after you record. One of the advantages to using the software approach when recording is you can change everything up after you record. Take out too much delay, add in more delay, reverb, different amp sims, speaker sims etc. 

What I also like is I don't have the bother of isolating my amp and running cables to my recording room. I don't have the volume of amps. It is so much easier to just turn it on and start to record. The best thing is what comes out of my nearfield monitors is what is actually recorded. If I mic an amp the sound I hear in the room is usually way different than the sound that I play back from the recording.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Player99 said:


> Just think of the amp sim the same as a guitar amplifier. If you use pedals with your amp, you can use them with the sim. You say earlier about going over the top the of amp... not sure what you are asking, but again, use exactly like a regular amp.
> 
> The drums in Riffworks are available before and after you record. One of the advantages to using the software approach when recording is you can change everything up after you record. Take out too much delay, add in more delay, reverb, different amp sims, speaker sims etc.
> 
> What I also like is I don't have the bother of isolating my amp and running cables to my recording room. I don't have the volume of amps. It is so much easier to just turn it on and start to record. The best thing is what comes out of my nearfield monitors is what is actually recorded. If I mic an amp the sound I hear in the room is usually way different than the sound that I play back from the recording.


Excellent, you got what I meant


Thanks again everyone. The time you have spent to explain the pros/cons and equip choices has been greatly appreciated


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Player99 said:


> How much ram do you have? .


forgot to answer, 12gb ram


----------



## Guest (Oct 14, 2017)

Scotty said:


> forgot to answer, 12gb ram


That is pretty good. Many people only have 4 gigs, which is really not enough. 12 will get you there. 

What Windows? 64 bit?


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Player99 said:


> That is pretty good. Many people only have 4 gigs, which is really not enough. 12 will get you there.
> 
> What Windows? 64 bit?


Yup, 64 bit windows 10


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Hoping I can keep asking for more advice....I'm picking up an interface this week. I'm choosing something lower end to get started. But good lord, how do I choose the best one for the money?

I'm considering the ART Pro, Behringer 2x2, the Roland Duo Capture, Focusrite 24/96 and the PreSonus iOne. 

Do any of these shine above the others? Any that wont work for any reason?

Someone suggested the Art Pro might be problematic, but the product description says latency free (?)


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I've heard lots of great things about Focusrite when people talk about budget interfaces.

I have an old M-Audio Fast Track Pro that works fine for my needs.


----------



## Guest (Oct 16, 2017)

Scotty said:


> Hoping I can keep asking for more advice....I'm picking up an interface this week. I'm choosing something lower end to get started. But good lord, how do I choose the best one for the money?
> 
> I'm considering the ART Pro, Behringer 2x2, the Roland Duo Capture, Focusrite 24/96 and the PreSonus iOne.
> 
> ...


As far as I am concerned it's all about the latency rate. There is a master thread at Gearslutz here: Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base : - Gearslutz Pro Audio Community

The Focusrite do not have low latency from the testing Tafkat has done.

You also cannot believe the L&M sales guys, or the manufacturers. They use the direct monitoring specs as their RTL, so when they say zero latency they are not usually talking about it going round trip. The gearslutz thread shows the true RTL and it is surprisingly high on some of the more popular units.

Keep asking questions.

If you bought the RME Babyface 1 used or discounted it would be a good unit. What dollar value are you looking to spend?


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I wouldn't really worry about latency. I'm playing though an old M-Audio Fast Track Pro into an old desktop PC and if there is any latency it's not enough that it is interfering with my playing in any way.


----------



## Guest (Oct 16, 2017)

Did you say if you have USB 3 or only USB 2? The USB 3 jacks are light blue inside.


----------



## Guest (Oct 16, 2017)

Here is a small thread on the topic as well:
audio interface with the lowest latency, small budget!! - Gearslutz Pro Audio Community

The one guy says the scarlet is not great and to check out the zoom unit.


----------



## Guest (Oct 16, 2017)

Another article using the info from the above link. Remember in the bar charts the higher the number the faster the RTL. The lower the number (or the shorter the bar) the higher the RTL is.

http://www.heavyweightbass.net/inde...ce-low-latency-performance-by-vin-curigliano/


----------



## Guest (Oct 16, 2017)

In case you are not understanding why I am going on about latency, it's about how fast your guitar signal goes through the interface, computer and software, back out to the interface and out the speakers or headphones.

The delay the signal takes is the latency. The "round trip latency" is what is important. 0-5 millisecs is ideal. 5-10 some people will have performance issues. 10+ millisecs everyone has issues.

If you only use the stand alone amp sim I am not sure if there is as much delay, but I find it's nice to use a number of plugins. There are so many free vst fx plugins and amps available. To use multiple plugins I use a DAW (Studio One Pro). The DAW also runs midi, drums, loops, multiple tracks and of course records, saves and plays back.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Good grief. There is an absolute truckload to know about this stuff from what I'm starting to read with the supplied links. I will have to check the USB ports tonight. I suspect they are only USB2. 

I'm also thinking that this is going to cost me a considerable amount of money. My original budget for an interface was only $100-$200.

If I have to get into interfaces in the $500-$1000 range, I'll have to tap out. There's gonna be a couple hundred dollars for software on top. 

I also read something about hot pick ups causing problems with some units. I need to run single coils, P 90s and med-hot humbucker's 

Now I'm wondering if I should look for an 11 Rack or something equivalent for amp sims and look at different routes of mixing stereo/guitar signal together to run into headphones. 

Recording is way far down the road and possibly never for me, so I think I'm chasing the wrong thing here or at least as far as my wallet size goes... and perhaps I should've mentioned that upfront


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

If anyone hear can hear latency on a $100 unit your ears are better than mine.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

If L & Mq will accept a return if I don't like it I have nothing to lose. I'm going to see if they will do that


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Scotty don't listen to this latency nonsense. Just grab a $100-$200 interface and you'll be fine.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

If L&M doesn't work out for you, I'd be happy to lend you my interface to try for a couple of weeks.


----------



## Guest (Oct 16, 2017)

Guncho said:


> Scotty don't listen to this latency nonsense. Just grab a $100-$200 interface and you'll be fine.


Yes latency is nonsense. Don't listen to anything about it. It is fake and does not exist. It's something I made up just for this internet prank.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Seriously though I've been playing guitar for decades and some of those in bands. 

When I play though my cheap interface I don't hear any delay. If I did I wouldn't be able to play though it.

So if there is latency (and I'm sure there is some) it's irrelevant.

You are scaring the OP from even attempting this and/or making it sound like you need to spend hundred of dollars to get an interlace that is even usable.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Here's me playing through my cheap interface.


----------



## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Stay away from Focusrite Scarletts if you are on a Windows computer, drivers are the worst. For the money I would go with Behringer with Midas preamps or MAudio with Octane preamps


----------



## Guest (Oct 16, 2017)

Guncho said:


> You are scaring the OP from even attempting this and/or making it sound like you need to spend hundred of dollars to get an interlace that is even usable.


Or he can buy a cheap one and perhaps it works, but if it doesn't he will be scared away because the whole experience sucked.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

If it doesn't?

If a 5-10 year old M-Audio Fast Track Pro works, anything will.


----------



## Guest (Oct 16, 2017)

Guncho said:


> If it doesn't?
> 
> If a 5-10 year old M-Audio Fast Track Pro works, anything will.


OK so I could learn from you here for sure. What software are you running? What amp sims?


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Reaper
Guitar Rig 4 
Amplitude
Whatever the free pod one is.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm taking all suggestions seriously regardless of differing experiences. 

I went to L&M and got talking to one of the guys there who wondered if I could use my Zoom G3 as an interface. I though what the hey, and figured I'd try that 1st.

So I brought strings and a Yamaha FG800 home instead. (No NGD, just a rental to muck around with, and boy does it sound nice compared to my acoustic junk)

There's my guitar ADD for ya...all this focus on sims, and I go and bring home an acoustic


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Scotty said:


> So I brought strings and a Yamaha FG800 home instead...


I seem to remember someone mentioning that specific guitar in the past. 

From a purely "techie" standpoint, you can't simplify things much more than an acoustic! That should be a nice change for you while you sort out computers, interfaces, software, mp3's, latency, USB 2.0, app sims, preamps and F.T.S.Q.* 

Enjoy the rental. 
How long do you have it rented for? (OR..When are you buying it?...LOL)

(*I just made that up so I could participate in this thread)

Cheers

(smarta$$) Dave


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Player99 said:


> Did you say if you have USB 3 or only USB 2? The USB 3 jacks are light blue inside.


USB2



greco said:


> If L&M doesn't work out for you, I'd be happy to lend you my interface to try for a couple of weeks.


Thanks Dave, generous as always...appreciate the offer



Player99 said:


> Or he can buy a cheap one and perhaps it works, but if it doesn't he will be scared away because the whole experience sucked.


Certainly don't want that, I get frustrated easily with electronics & complicated PC stuff and end up reaching for the old fashioned gear that works once I reach my limits. I'm willing to gamble a bit, but would like to reduce the potential of failure of course


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

greco said:


> I seem to remember someone mentioning that specific guitar in the past.
> 
> From a purely "techie" standpoint, you can't simplify things much more than an acoustic! That should be a nice change for you while you sort out computers, interfaces, software, mp3's, latency, USB 2.0, app sims, preamps and F.T.S.Q.*
> 
> ...


I do to, which is why I grabbed it. There was a dude playing in the acoustic room, so for $14 a month to rent it, I decided to grab and go. 
its a trade in and the action is higher than I like. I love the sound, but I think I'm a Taylor action guy. The sound is big, bold and bright and articulate though. Very impressive for under $300.

you have to explain us the abbr though. I'm stumped


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

greco said:


> F.T.S.Q.*
> 
> (*I just made that up so I could participate in this thread)
> 
> ...


@Scotty I know exactly what you mean about the Taylors.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Scotty said:


> I'm taking all suggestions seriously regardless of differing experiences.
> 
> I went to L&M and got talking to one of the guys there who wondered if I could use my Zoom G3 as an interface. I though what the hey, and figured I'd try that 1st.
> 
> ...


Just run it through the new Boss Electric Simulator Pedal and you're all set!


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Guncho said:


> Just run it through the new Boss Electric Simulator Pedal and you're all set!


about to...fruitlessly trying to reinstall the G3 stuff and cubase LE on this pc. WTF, this s**t is frustrating...going to bed

edit, wait, no...playing this yammerhammer is the only thing that went well tonight


----------



## Guest (Oct 17, 2017)

I bought a Presonus FP10 a number of years ago. Despite the zero latency claims it suffered from about 18-24 millisecond RTL delay. So it is not feasible to run it RTL at all with or without any VST sims. Recently I bought a really good Tascam unit to use with amp sims and vocals. Same issue. That's when I started reading about latency. I bought the original RME Babyface. I immediately upgraded that to the Babyface Pro. I am sure you will find a cheap interface that will work.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Scotty said:


> about to...fruitlessly trying to reinstall the G3 stuff and cubase LE on this pc. WTF, this s**t is frustrating...going to bed
> 
> edit, wait, no...playing this yammerhammer is the only thing that went well tonight


Maybe this is a better representation of your uncomplicated future (truck is included...beard is optional)


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Argh. Has anyone installed Cubase Le 7 on windows 10? I found this snippet, and it does not sound promising...
_"
I was successfully running Cubase Elements 7 under Windows 8.1, but chose to update to Windows 10 - it's taken a while, but the software does run in compatability mode - the eLicence works in CM for Win7 - Cubase runs in CM for Win8 (but I've chosen Win7 to try and avoid issues with the eLicence).
So far all is ok, although now I have some issues over the sound - I may have to play about with ASIO drivers for that one._

Not sure if Cubase LEe and Elements are similar...


----------



## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Did you read the compatibility page?


----------



## Guest (Oct 18, 2017)

If you keep having trouble get the free version of Studio One, or the demo 100% complete of Reaper, or Calkealk or or or... If I was you I would try Reaper.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

amagras said:


> Did you read the compatibility page?


Just Found it, says it's good. Might be winning now. Thanks


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Reaper +1!


----------



## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

If you are used to a specific DAW don't change. You will waste hundreds of hours learning to do in a different DAW what you already know, take your time to do a proper installation, contact tech support and hey will gladly help you. At the end of the day all DAWs do the same


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

amagras said:


> If you are used to a specific DAW don't change. You will waste hundreds of hours learning to do in a different DAW what you already know, take your time to do a proper installation, contact tech support and hey will gladly help you. At the end of the day all DAWs do the same


Thanks. I don't have any time with any whatsoever. My downloads keep failing tonight. My service is abysmally slow, it may as well be dial up. 
I'm going to download onto a USB at lunch tomorrow. 

So Reaper and Cubase do virtually the same thing? 
The only reason I was trying to download Cubase is that is the software that came with this zoom G3, which I am attempting to use an interface, hopefully with something like TH, Peavy or Amplitube stuff we have been discussing


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I think with Amplitude (and probably others) you don't even need a DAW. You just open the program, plug into your interface and play.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Guncho said:


> I think with Amplitude (and probably others) you don't even need a DAW. You just open the program, plug into your interface and play.


I have a ton of respect for you guys and your tech knowledge

I think I've been barking up the wrong tree all night. 

Going to try that


----------



## Guest (Oct 18, 2017)

Pretty much all the daw programs will host vst's.

If you want cheap and functional try Reaper. The demo is the full program and doesn't expire.

For ease of use Studio One is my favorite. Lots of drag and drop.


----------



## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Scotty said:


> The only reason I was trying to download Cubase is that is the software that came with this zoom G3, which I am attempting to use an interface, hopefully with something like TH, Peavy or Amplitube stuff we have been discussing


The Cubase version that comes with interfaces etc is not a full version, you get LE which is a limited edition that only allows you to do basic stuff. If you have no experience with DAW then go for the cheapest one , they all do the same. There are even free DAWs out there but it's a good idea to support a developer as you get tech support, etc. 

As said above, you don't need a DAW to use amp simulations, most of them have standalone versions that run directly from your desktop, that's what I use for practice. As soon as you install them you will see the icon on your desktop, click on it and play. You might need to do some basic audio hardware configuration on preferences that we will guide you through. 

Some amp sims go as far as to include an audio recorder like the free version of Guitar Rig. Amplitube Custom Shop on the other hand includes a multitrack where you can record multiple guitar or bass tracks and playback at the same time, this functionality is borrowed from DAWs. 

You only need a DAW if you are planning to make your own demo songs using drum and bass loops for example or virtual instruments (plugins).


----------



## Guest (Oct 18, 2017)

It will be great to use the stand alone amp sims. Once you have a handle on the stand alone amp sims, it would be nice to use (and experiment) with all the plugins, fx's, and console style tone shaping vst's that are available in the DAW environment. You can string the vst plugins together and really get into it. Save the strings and access them as presets etc.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Ok tech pros...got a problem trying to install Amplitude. It seemed to install ok, but upon starting it up, there was a device initialization error. It says "could not initialize Audio device - The input and output device don't share a common sample rate" Then it asks me to open audio settings. Trying to choose one of 4 audio devices, it freezes up. I installed Asio driver as suggested earlier in this thread.

So, moved on to trying ReValver.
Connection issues. No sound or feedback. Going to try and update the G3 software


----------



## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

I've had a support case open with Ik multimedia for months and they can't make the standalone version of amplitude work on my system.


----------



## Guest (Oct 19, 2017)

Sounds like after you update you have to set the sample rate at something they are both in sync with. 24 48 is good to start with.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks guys. I'll try that with ReValver. Found a user guide. I think I will get there with some more messing around. At one point I had a dry signal without feedback but then messed it up. 

Man this stuff is not easy. 

If I can't get it by next week, I'm going to seek out the guy at Long and McQuade as Dave suggested. 

I have to say that I'm impressed with some of the sounds I'm getting from the G3 when I throw in the towel and have to play _SOMETHING_ before the day is out. It has a few amp simulator's in it. I quite like the Marshall crunch tone. Very similar to my Traynor.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

WIN! 

Or somewhat. I got ReValver to work. Some tweaks still needed I think, most tones with gain all sound like they are coming through a snare drum. Same rattle 

I've got the sampling around 225-ish. It wont go higher or it goes back to windows sound from ASIO accompanied by an error message. Amps don't work with Win sound. 

thanks again guys


----------



## hammerstein (Oct 17, 2017)

This was the route I went when I got back into playing. I had very limited budget and I couldn't find an amp that I liked with the money I had, but it was enough to buy an audio interface and a cheap set of studio monitors.

I tried all the free solutions I could find, and I like the LePou plugins the best. But it looks like there's a lot more in this thread to check out than what I came across in my searches.

I liked guitar rig 5 player if I didn't want to have to mess with a DAW and all the setup that is involved, but I could never really dial in a tone I liked with the free options available(they weren't bad, just nothing that really fit what I like to play)
Amplitube is good too but I experience a little bit of latency with that, and it can be a little more confusing to use.

But I've been shamefully abusing the trial version of Reaper, a tubescreamer vst, LePou's plugins(amp and cab sims) with some mesa cab impulses.
It's great fun, because you can easily record a little rhythm track, setup another and play over it.


----------



## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Glad to hear you are up and running. I don't remember if I posted these videos earlier but I'm sure they will help you get started with Revalver


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Wonderful, thanks so much. I will check it out tonight. You've been a super great help


amagras said:


> Glad to hear you are up and running. I don't remember if I posted these videos earlier but I'm sure they will help you get started with Revalver


----------



## Guest (Oct 20, 2017)

Scotty said:


> WIN!
> 
> Or somewhat. I got ReValver to work. Some tweaks still needed I think, most tones with gain all sound like they are coming through a snare drum. Same rattle
> 
> ...


Try to find some clean Fender amp settings.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Thanks. I'll check for those 

Actually, one of the things I noticed is that as soon as I got the guitar sound to come through it was as if there is a pedal on. Like the Signal was stereo or something. I wouldn't call it a delay, but it didn't sound right.

There was no amp simulator's or anything selected for it yet. This is just the raw sound or dry sound I guess you call it.


----------



## Guest (Oct 21, 2017)

Scotty said:


> Thanks. I'll check for those
> 
> Actually, one of the things I noticed is that as soon as I got the guitar sound to come through it was as if there is a pedal on. Like the Signal was stereo or something. I wouldn't call it a delay, but it didn't sound right.
> 
> There was no amp simulator's or anything selected for it yet. This is just the raw sound or dry sound I guess you call it.


There was a..... delay? How could that be?


----------



## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Make sure to turn direct monitoring off on your interface.


----------



## Guest (Oct 21, 2017)

What interface is it?


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Player99 said:


> There was a..... delay? How could that be?


I'm not sure. I wouldn't call it a delay necessarily. More like a stereo effect. Not huge, but there. 

Didn't mess with it tonight. Watched the Hip special then got into playing it until the better half said it was too loud...wtf, it's s tribute for x sakes


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Interface is my zoom g3. 

So without direct monitoring, how do I hear what I am playing?


----------



## Guest (Oct 21, 2017)

Scotty said:


> Interface is my zoom g3.
> 
> So without direct monitoring, how do I hear what I am playing?


Direct monitoring is when the signal you hear goes from your guitar to interface then immediately back out to you. It does not go through your computer at all. So direct monitoring is not going to help with any amp sims.

This is from your unit's description:
"USB audio interface for DAW recording.
G3 operates as an audio interface, letting you record directly to your computer via USB. All of your sound settings used during rehearsals or live performances can be recorded to your favorite DAW. *The pedals direct monitoring capability eliminates any latency problems*, assuring realistic studio conditions and hassle-free operation."

So if you recall my posts from before about latency, you may have issues using round trip monitoring.

To answer your question, if you look at the setup of your amp sim, if your Zoom is installed it should show up as an input device. As far as output, I am not sure how you monitor it, but if is functioning like a daw then it should be your output device as well.


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Just throwing this out there in case someone is looking for a video showing a simple and cheap way to lay down a few tracks.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

This might sound like a stupid question, but if I wanted to try some of the free software that is out there could I use the cable from Rocksmith?

I bought it to play around with a couple of years ago but rarely used it. I still have the cable though so was wondering if it would work for plugging in my guitar when using software? If not, I can buy an inexpensive interface when I am next at L&M.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Scotty said:


> Thanks. I'll check for those
> 
> Actually, one of the things I noticed is that as soon as I got the guitar sound to come through it was as if there is a pedal on. Like the Signal was stereo or something. I wouldn't call it a delay, but it didn't sound right.
> 
> There was no amp simulator's or anything selected for it yet. This is just the raw sound or dry sound I guess you call it.


Is there a mix knob on your interface? Unless it's at 100% or 0% you will be hearing some of your direct signal and some of the signal after your computer.


----------



## Guest (Oct 23, 2017)

Yes one way it will sound like the amp sim, the other it will sound more plain. Maybe put a whole lot of reverb on the amp sim so you can figure out which is which...


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

This is from your unit's description:
"USB audio interface for DAW recording.
G3 operates as an audio interface, letting you record directly to your computer via USB. All of your sound settings used during rehearsals or live performances can be recorded to your favorite DAW. *The pedals direct monitoring capability eliminates any latency problems*, assuring realistic studio conditions and hassle-free operation."

So if you recall my posts from before about latency, you may have issues using round trip monitoring.

To answer your question, if you look at the setup of your amp sim, if your Zoom is installed it should show up as an input device. As far as output, I am not sure how you monitor it, but if is functioning like a daw then it should be your output device as well.[/QUOTE]

The G3 is both the input and output device.



Guncho said:


> Is there a mix knob on your interface? Unless it's at 100% or 0% you will be hearing some of your direct signal and some of the signal after your computer.


No, the G3 is a multi stomp box.

So after messing around tonight, I dont hear any latency as you guys describe it, but the gain tones are still awful.

the demo videos sound amazing, something not right with this. 

I cannot change the sample rate or buffer size. There's only one choice for sample rate and if I adjust the buffer up or down from its preset 221 samples the program crashes. I updated ASIO to v 2.14 for which supposed to fix the windows 10 bug. 

I think it's time to try a different interface


----------



## Guest (Oct 24, 2017)

Scotty said:


> This is from your unit's description:
> "USB audio interface for DAW recording.
> G3 operates as an audio interface, letting you record directly to your computer via USB. All of your sound settings used during rehearsals or live performances can be recorded to your favorite DAW. *The pedals direct monitoring capability eliminates any latency problems*, assuring realistic studio conditions and hassle-free operation."
> 
> ...


The G3 is both the input and output device.



No, the G3 is a multi stomp box.

So after messing around tonight, I dont hear any latency as you guys describe it, but the gain tones are still awful.

the demo videos sound amazing, something not right.[/QUOTE]

When you plug a guitar directly in the 1/4" jack is supposed to be "high Z", which if I recall is 1000 ohms for the electric guitar, but a regular mic is much less. Your unit is a guitar box, so one would think the input is high Z but maybe you have to tell it that. It seems like you might have too hot a signal. Also many of the amp sims are heavy distortion. Look for a patch for clean electric guitar or something. Also look at the input and output signal on the amp sim. You may have those overloading. You should start messing around with the amp. Check the output, master volume, overdrive, etc.


----------



## hammerstein (Oct 17, 2017)

colchar said:


> This might sound like a stupid question, but if I wanted to try some of the free software that is out there could I use the cable from Rocksmith?
> 
> I bought it to play around with a couple of years ago but rarely used it. I still have the cable though so was wondering if it would work for plugging in my guitar when using software? If not, I can buy an inexpensive interface when I am next at L&M.


You can actually, I had this setup going for about a week or so before my interface arrived. I don't remember exactly how to get it configured, but I do know you will need the asio4all plugin. The rocksmith cable is basically an input only interface, so you need the plugin to direct output to your normal speaker setup.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Player99 said:


> The G3 is both the input and output device.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When you plug a guitar directly in the 1/4" jack is supposed to be "high Z", which if I recall is 1000 ohms for the electric guitar, but a regular mic is much less. Your unit is a guitar box, so one would think the input is high Z but maybe you have to tell it that. It seems like you might have too hot a signal. Also many of the amp sims are heavy distortion. Look for a patch for clean electric guitar or something. Also look at the input and output signal on the amp sim. You may have those overloading. You should start messing around with the amp. Check the output, master volume, overdrive, etc.[/QUOTE]

The hot signal makes a bit of sense, I will check that out. It does clean sims just fine. None of the gain sounds are decent, and they all have the same breakup. Like a snare drum in front of a speaker. The demo's sound great. 

If I cant get this sorted, I will try a different sim software. Failing that, I will go to L&M, quit being a cheap ass and buy an interface and ask for help setting it up like Dave suggested.


----------



## Guest (Oct 25, 2017)

Try putting your favorite overdrive pedal before the computer. If you have a pedalboard try all your pedals you would normally us into a clean amp sim. Also the speakers and mics make a difference. 

I never was really happy with much until I got S-Gear. Not saying you have to, if it is just for practice or home use. I also never liked any of the hard disto sounding amps. I get the best results from a clean amp sim and my od pedals. Even just a Klone would change everything. Again watch the inputs and outputs. 

What speakers are you using to listen with?

Try the S-Gear demo and see if it is any better. It's free...


----------



## Guest (Oct 25, 2017)

Can you not get Amplitube Free to work?


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Player99 said:


> Try putting your favorite overdrive pedal before the computer. If you have a pedalboard try all your pedals you would normally us into a clean amp sim. Also the speakers and mics make a difference.
> 
> I never was really happy with much until I got S-Gear. Not saying you have to, if it is just for practice or home use. I also never liked any of the hard disto sounding amps. I get the best results from a clean amp sim and my od pedals. Even just a Klone would change everything. Again watch the inputs and outputs.
> 
> ...


I'm using headphones only right now. (Decent pair) I dont have any OD pedals, the only one I use all the time is an EP booster. I never use the G3 unless playing through headphones



Player99 said:


> Can you not get Amplitube Free to work?


No, wouldn't connect with my G3


----------



## Guest (Oct 26, 2017)

Here is a post about Amplitube --> G3: Can I Use Zoom G3 as an interface audio to use Amplitube? - Zoom Gear & Home Recording Forum

Try the full 15 day free S-Gear demo: S-Gear


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Player99 said:


> Here is a post about Amplitube --> G3: Can I Use Zoom G3 as an interface audio to use Amplitube? - Zoom Gear & Home Recording Forum
> 
> Try the full 15 day free S-Gear demo: S-Gear


Thanks. got my pc guy looking into whether the version of ASIOis working right. ReValver works, but sound quality even with sim tweaks is not right. 

Amplitube wont recognize the G3. Everything connected as it is and works with ReValver, but still asks for a device. Drop down window only allows me to choose sound option and thats it

May try Sgear yet.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

WEll knock me over, I finally got one to work well after weeks of struggling!!

ReValver works, but still does not have great sound. TH3 on the other hand sounds great. A bit buggy but I think it is my PC


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Deleted a stupid .gif.
It was funny at the time...sorry.

Congrats on your progress.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

@greco, What the...???


----------



## Guest (Oct 28, 2017)

What makes a real big difference is using high quality speaker emulations.


----------



## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

I tend to favour modelling speakers (the ones that come with amp sims) over IRs, they only allow one pre determined position per IR while the modelled ones allow you to move the microphone around like you would in the real one. 99% I find the sound in my head with the models while IRs always sound like something else and out of context. My2c


----------



## Guest (Oct 29, 2017)

amagras said:


> I tend to favour modelling speakers (the ones that come with amp sims) over IRs, they only allow one pre determined position per IR while the modelled ones allow you to move the microphone around like you would in the real one. 99% I find the sound in my head with the models while IRs always sound like something else and out of context. My2c


I am not sure what they are called then. The ones that come from S-Gear give you some mic distances. But not the same as the graphics style in Amplitube. But the S-Gear ones kill amplitube cabs. If I am using Amplitube I will shut off it's speakers and use the ones from S-Gear. I also use my pedals in front of the interface.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

greco said:


> It was funny at the time...sorry.


 I might put that on my tombstone... lol


----------



## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Wardo said:


> I might put that on my tombstone... lol


Why would you put that on a trombone?


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Wardo said:


> I might put that on my tombstone... lol


I read where someone actually had the following on their tombstone...

"Death is overrated, it's been done before"

@Scotty Sorry for the derail...I'll stop now.


----------



## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

greco said:


> I read where someone actually had the following on their tombstone...
> 
> "Death is overrated, it's been done before"
> 
> @Scotty Sorry for the derail...I'll stop now.



All good Dave...for what its worth, the post was funny.


----------



## Guest (Nov 1, 2017)




----------

