# The Biggest Brainiacs In Pop/Rock Are?



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Do you agree with this? Do you have any others to add? Click on the link below for the full list.

Who are the biggest brainiacs in pop? - BBC Music

You might think pop stars and higher learning are not a natural fit. After all, no one needs a bunch of letters after their name to write songs or sell out stadiums, right?

Perhaps Chris Martin (first-class honours, Greek and Latin, UCL) would demur. Brian May (PhD, astrophysics, Imperial College) might shake his head at your poorly configured data. It seems that the ability to succeed in music does not preclude a talent for more scholarly pursuits. And as the list below indicates, the bar set by these well-tutored troubadours can be pretty high.

*1. Brian May*
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[LISTEN] Brian May chats with Radcliffe and Maconie

He's got a bonce the size of Jupiter and a cluster of academic credentials to orbit it. Indeed, the cosmically inclined Brian May not only graduated with a BSc in physics (2:1) from Imperial College London (he also studied maths), he later went on to earn a PhD in Astrophysics from his old alma mater in 2008. The title of his thesis? A Survey of Radial Velocities in the Zodiacal Dust Cloud. Of course.

*2. Rivers Cuomo*
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[LISTEN] Zane Lowe talks to Weezer's Rivers Cuomo

Weezer's lead vocalist, songwriter and guitarist Rivers Cuomo enrolled at Harvard in 1995 to study classical composition, having become disillusioned with the repetitive nature of touring. He dropped out two terms later when he realised that classical music wasn't his bag either. Returning in 1997 and again in 2004, Cuomo finally completed his studies in 2008, obtaining a BA (Hons) in English.

The debacle did at least benefit his songwriting, as he explained to one interviewer in 2006: "Two lines in the song [‘El Scorcho’] are actually taken from someone else's essay in my Expos class."

*3. Delia Derbyshire*
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[LISTEN] Sculptress of Sound: The Lost Works of Delia Derbyshire

Electronic music pioneer Delia Derbyshire got into both Oxford and Cambridge, rightly describing her achievement as "quite something for a working class girl in the 50s, where only one in 10 [students] were female". She accepted a scholarship to study maths at Cambridge and, switching courses after a year, graduated with a BA in the unlikely combination of mathematics and music.

Derbyshire merged these subjects to extraordinary effect throughout a career at the BBC Radiophonic Workshop and subsequently in TV, film and pop music. Best known for the complex recording techniques she pioneered to create the ominous sound of the Doctor Who theme in 1963, she was revered by - and often collaborated with - musicians from all eras of pop.

Not bad for a graduate who was turned down from a job by Decca on the basis that women had no place in a recording studio.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

My education has not made me a better, or a more popular musician. Excluding music degrees, I would think the two are mutually exclusive. Although one could argue that the higher intelligence of a scholar could benefit ones musical development.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Didn't recognize a lot of names, though I recognized more of the bands that they represented. My experience is that there are a lot of big brains in music. David Byrne, Sting, and Henry Rollins come to mind. But even at the local level, I find that the vast majority of musicians that I deal with are intelligent and articulate - even here on the interweb, a place not known for intelligence or articulation.


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2016)

There was/are a lot of intelligence in the music industry.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Not...


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

laristotle said:


> There was/are a lot of intelligence in the music industry.


Not intelligent; rude. Whether he was right or not, an intelligent person does not irritate others by making them look childish.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Not intelligent; rude. Whether he was right or not, an intelligent person does not irritate others by making them look childish.


Why not?


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2016)

Steadfastly said:


> Not intelligent; rude. Whether he was right or not, an intelligent person does not irritate others by making them look childish.


Children need to be corrected when they're wrong. N'est-ce pas?
Pouting children, especially so.


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

Greg Ginn of Black Flag - has a degree in Economics from UCLA, was into ham radio and started a business building amateur radio equipment and published an amateur radio magazine in his youth.

Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine - attended Harvard University and earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in Social Studies


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

laristotle said:


> Children need to be corrected when they're wrong. N'est-ce pas?
> Pouting children, especially so.


You are correct, Larry and rude children need to be corrected also. It looks like Zappa's parents missed that part.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Electraglide said:


> Why not?


Because they are taken less seriously.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Because they are taken less seriously.


That's debatable.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Tom Scholz of Boston has a Bachelor's and Master's degree in Engineering from MIT, Alice Cooper has a degree in Fine Arts. Lots of musicians are well-educated.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

With all those smart guys, it's good this guy keeps the average, well, average.


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## jimmy c g (Jan 1, 2008)

nigel tufnel ?


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I thought the camo'd give it away. I didn't want to go 'full monty' with bow or rifle.

Teddy. Terrible Teddy. LOL


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I've heard that Neil Peart is a bit of a brainiac. He wrote most of Rush's lyrics. Some pretty heady stuff. I don't know about degrees or whatnot, but Geddy always said Neil read A LOT...hence why he wrote most of the lyrics.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

They forgot this geeky keyboard nerd..................

Brian Cox (physicist) - Wikipedia


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Skunk Baxter is a missile defense consultant.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Dexter Holland has a masters in biology and was working on a PHD at one point. Tom Morello has a degree from Harvard, although I can't remember what in.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

_delete_


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

the pink floyd guys met at college while they were studying to be architects, iirc.
most of the names they give out on the internet are people i never heard of or don't care about. 
henry rollins is a pretty smart guy but i don't know what his credentials are.
the guys from scatterbrain are supposed to be pretty smart. i bet most of you don't know them or maybe a few know their one hit, "don't call me dude"


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

Chitmo said:


> Dexter Holland has a masters in biology and was working on a PHD at one point. Tom Morello has a degree from Harvard, although I can't remember what in.


I posted about Tom Morello above, having a Social Studies degree.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I would speculate that one or a few members of Tesla are also educated. Or else they would have called themselves Edison.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

[QUOTE="cheezyridr, post: 848545, member: 5427"
the guys from scatterbrain are supposed to be pretty smart.[/QUOTE]

That is quite the oxymoron.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Attributing smarts to educational credentials (and especially where they were obtained from) is a variety of elitism that I don't subscribe to. The more relevant question is the extent to which a given musician shows evidence of a capacity for deep and broad thinking. Yes Brian May finally got his doctorate in astronomy, and that's not nothing. But we would need some additional information to substantiate the view that when discussing anything beyond astronomy and guitar-playing with him, that one would get good insights and perspective coming out of his mouth. I'm not saying we wouldn't, just that we can't assume so because of his credentials.

Soime folks are incredibly smart and deep thinkers in a narrowly circumscribed area. F'rinstance, Frank Zappa's understanding of music, both playing and composing as well as arranging, production, and recording, was leagues beyond many of his contemporaries. But what about outside that realm?

I read the interviews with various musicians that appear in Guitar Player, Vintage Guitar, and other publications, and sometimes I find someone who strikes me as a very deep thinker, and even profoundly wise and insightful. Sometimes they have formal education, and sometimes they don't. Some are very articulate, and some have deep thoughts but are hampered in expressing them, or express them in a way which appears simpler than it really is.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

High/Deaf said:


> With all those smart guys, it's good this guy keeps the average, well, average.
> 
> View attachment 33017


You just insulted lots of average people...Teddy could play, but he shouldn't open his mouth. I think he's related to Trump


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

mhammer said:


> Attributing smarts to educational credentials (and especially where they were obtained from) is a variety of elitism that I don't subscribe to.


As an engineer working in high-tech, I can attest to the fact "smart" and "intelligent" are two completely different and often mutually exclusive things. I often wonder how some of the clearly intelligent people I interact with can be so stupid. Sometimes I wonder how they make through an entire day alive. On the other hand, one of my oldest friends, never did great in school, career semi-skilled blue collar guy is one of the sharpest most astute people I know.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

ZeroGravity said:


> As an engineer working in high-tech, I can attest to the fact "smart" and "intelligent" are two completely different and often mutually exclusive things. I often wonder how some of the clearly intelligent people I interact with can be so stupid. Sometimes I wonder how they make through an entire day alive. On the other hand, one of my oldest friends, never did great in school, career semi-skilled blue collar guy is one of the sharpest most astute people I know.


Well they're not THAT different, but I'll agree that, given your definition of each, they are moderately correlated, but not identical.

I will further distinguish between extensive superficial factual knowledge about some domain (e.g., knowing a lot of basebal stats), capacity to reason about problems in that domain in a relatively abstract fashion, and scope of knowledge and intelligence. So one could know a lot of factoids about some area, but not be an especially adept problem solver in that area. One could also be a terrific problem solver in a specific area, but not outside of that specific area. I will further distinguish between all of those, and wisdom, as a kind of higher-order form of intelligence. 

I should note that researchers will say that "wisdom" can also be very domain-specific. So, someone can possess tremendous insight and wisdom about one thing (e.g., how you should invest your money or select a car for purchase), but not about other things (such as interpersonal relationships, and whether or not to keep your dick in your pants). You wouldn't think twice about consulting them in some areas, and would not consult them in others. My own hero in the area of wisdom research - the late Paul Baltes - suggested that while wisdom is evident in many younger people (at least based on what thousands and thousands of people in various cultures say, when asked to name someone they know who is wise, and say why they think that person is wise), the breadth or scope of wisdom increases with age. He used to say that older adults were more likely to be among the "world record holders" in wisdom (and he meant that as a tongue in cheek hyperbole); i.e., a bit wiser, but wise about more areas/aspects of life.

The fact is that some folks specialize in their intellectual development, focussing on a few specific things, and some are more generalist in their orientation, and find a broader range of things interesting to them. On top of this is something social psychologists John Cacioppo and Richard Petty called "need for cognition" - the tendency to want and need to think about things - something you would expect to see in many scientists, policy people, certain kinds of artists or authors, investigative journalists, and any other line of work you can think of where the person just has to know and understand something, or it drives them nuts.

So, when I think of "brainiacs" in pop/rock, I'm drawn to those who strike me as thinking deeply about a broader range of areas, and who come across as having acquired some sort of wisdom-like perspective, but are still hungry to learn and understand more. I tend to notice those who are more articulate, but its not all about being able to choose words well. This year we lost two extremely bright people: David Bowie and Prince. Bowie was very articulate and readily came across as having a keen mind in many areas. Prince, on the other hand, as brilliant as he was in so many areas, was rather inarticulate. I had never heard or read an interview with him where I came away thinking "If I had never heard the guy's music, I would have thought he was a genius on the basis of this interview".

Speaking of which, has anyone managed to read Springsteen's autobiography that recently came out? I was curious about how he came across in the book.


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## Tarbender (Apr 7, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Speaking of which, has anyone managed to read Springsteen's autobiography that recently came out? I was curious about how he came across in the book.


Saw him on Late Night the other night. I'm a great Springsteen fan but not a great guy on late night talk shows. Couldn't remember some of his quotes from the book when asked so made me think it was ghost written for him?

But back on topic, when I was in university I had profs that had creds and degrees that I thought were outstanding, Masters and Doctorates from some of the most reputable institutes of higher learning in the world , and then I had other profs than were not as highly educated but very qualified to lecture. I much preferred my courses with the later. I found the more "schooled" my professors were, the less their ability to communicate their knowledge to the students. And I've found this very true in real life as well.

And if I'm not mistaken Tom Scholz of Boston was also part of the team that developed a new Polaroid process for camera before digital made it moot.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Don't get me started on how profs get hired. I certainly won't diss reputable credentials. I'll just say that many of the things that students want and need from a prof are difficult to quantify, and academic search committees like things they can easily count. Like just about any hiring manager, they all have other full-time jobs to attend to and want this one to be mercifully efficient. So, they can't quantify how effective a communicator you are, but they can count how many publications you have, apply known rankings of those journals (or book publishers), and they can see what kind of grant money you'd arrive with. That is certainly not the _entire_ basis of hiring decisions, but it certainly plays a role, and its not nothing. I will also note that sometimes members of search committees are looking for hires that can be viable research colleagues for themselves, rather than necessarily of maximum benefit to students. So if profs can sometimes seem to have qualifications and credentials and peer esteem up the wazoo, but not add any value for you the student, there's a reason for that.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I don't know how a string on muso brainiacs came to this but:

I believe the biggest failure in the large company I work for is HR. They think they are psychologists and they don't have a clue what they are doing or where to ever start. Technical managers run rings around them, bending rules and favoring specific people, while HR trumpets their behavioural interviewing and hiring process. In my company, something we all know: when asked if you've ever had a conflict at work, the answer is always NO or you lose half the marks on it. Rather than getting to the issues of why and how did you resolve it, they believe if you've had conflicts (and who hasn't, if you've worked for any length of time), that is a problem. So all us liars that can straight-faced say that we've never had any personal conflicts at work can potentially be promoted. Liars only need apply. Sad bit true, this is common knowledge in my company. In fact, the managers coach their predetermined choice on this.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I'll try and gather the loose ends here to get us back to the initial track (though I agree with High/Deaf's observations):

The initial post was concerning those artists who provide evidence that rock musicians are not all drooling drugged-out morons. Subsequent posts addressed what constitutes "smart", and how some superficial criteria for "smart" may often not be as valid or indicative as one might think.

With that brief summary, and to derail the thread even further, who do folks view as "smart" guitar players? That is, what players impress you not so much with their speed or their tone or feeling, as such, or with their gab in interviews, or even their business sense, but with the thought and creativity they put into their note/tone/phrasing choices? Who are the players that make you stop, listen, and think "That's f-ing _brilliant_! I wouldn't have thought of doing that in a million years." ?


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2016)

mhammer said:


> Who are the players that make you stop, listen, and think
> "That's f-ing _brilliant_! I wouldn't have thought of doing that in a million years." ?


Back to FZ


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

One of my first choices, too, but I figured I'd leave it up to you folks.


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