# Tweed Timmy Tiny



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I'm hoping to have pedal makers give some advice. 

Is it possible to clone a Timmy into a small enclosure? If so, and you build, can you make me one?

Apparently, they are great with tweed amps.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Tone city ****** lime. This is supposed to be almost the same as a timmy and its in the smaller box. Most of the other clones use the same size enclosure as the timmy


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

knight_yyz said:


> Tone city ****** lime. This is supposed to be almost the same as a timmy and its in the smaller box. Most of the other clones use the same size enclosure as the timmy


I'm reading that it's based on a ts.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

Timmys are also based on a TS. And yes it can be made small.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Cups said:


> Timmys are also based on a TS. And yes it can be made small.


I revived a thread on tgp where Paul C chimed in stating his is an original design. Everyone concurred saying his design was genius.

I'm not educated at all about this stuff, so maybe I misread.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Yes, a Timmy is a unique design from Cochrane and in no way inspired or related to a TS - except that they are both analog guitar pedals. If you understand how the Timmy's controls work, this becomes obvious. I even wonder how close any of those clones are - if the controls don't work the same, I don't think they're a clone. 

Everyone talks about the Coolcat TOD V1 being a Timmy clone but I don't believe it is (I own both and I've A/B'd them myself). Maybe it is sonically similar but the controls don't work the same. Part of the magic of the Timmy is those controls and where they are inserted in the signal chain. 

The Timmy is my favorite drive/overdrive pedal. And they same size as your delay and booster. You should just get a real one. They aren't even expensive by boutique standards.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

It's funny, when you read descriptions about Timmy, most say it is based on the TS design, but when you ask Paul C, it isn't even close. I wouldn't know since I can't read a schematic. All I know is the pedal is on my board and rarely turned off. And I agree less then 200 CDN for an overdrive is cheap compared to most other boutique stuff.
(a new zendrive will cost you 400 by the time taxes and shipping are done)

There is also another clone in a small enclosure called the Mosky. The clones are about 100.
.
I have the ditto pedal and the Timmy side by side and the Timmy doesn't really take up much more space than the mini enclosure. Also the Timmy is very stackable, which is why I am trying to find a zendrive or simble .

You can also buy stacked clones, I've seen a Timmy/zen, a zen/Timmy dual voltage 9 and 18v!) a Timmy/Timmy, Timmy/morning glory, the list goes on. The zen into the Timmy is just wow


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

knight_yyz said:


> It's funny, when you read descriptions about Timmy, *most say it is based on the TS design*, but when you ask Paul C, it isn't even close.


Those same people will tell you a tag-board amp is 'PTP'. They hear something and they regurgitate.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

High/Deaf said:


> Yes, a Timmy is a unique design from Cochrane and in no way inspired or related to a TS - except that they are both analog guitar pedals. If you understand how the Timmy's controls work, this becomes obvious. I even wonder how close any of those clones are - if the controls don't work the same, I don't think they're a clone.
> 
> Everyone talks about the Coolcat TOD V1 being a Timmy clone but I don't believe it is (I own both and I've A/B'd them myself). Maybe it is sonically similar but the controls don't work the same. Part of the magic of the Timmy is those controls and where they are inserted in the signal chain.
> 
> The Timmy is my favorite drive/overdrive pedal. And they same size as your delay and booster. You should just get a real one. They aren't even expensive by boutique standards.


I'm probably going to get a real one, since finding a small one seems impossible. The mosky won't cut it based on my limited research. I need the pedal to behave with my tweed champ, and the timmy is highly recommended. IMO, there's a big difference between sounding like a pedal and _behaving _like one too.

The reason I'm going for small is that I want to fit three small pedals in the back of the champ and out of the way.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

There are some unique elements to a Timmy. But if you look at the schematic it's very similar to a striped down TS. He basically took away the buffers changed up the clipping section and added some simple eq. 
Not bashing it at all. I'm sure it sounds great. And the importance thing is you guys enjoy it. 
The good news is there are not a bunch of parts so it's a good candidate to miniuturize.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

adcandour said:


> I'm probably going to get a real one, since finding a small one seems impossible. The mosky won't cut it based on my limited research. I need the pedal to behave with my tweed champ, and the timmy is highly recommended. IMO, there's a big difference between sounding like a pedal and _behaving _like one too.
> 
> The reason I'm going for small is that I want to fit three small pedals in the back of the champ and out of the way.


Maybe buy a cheap analog mini-delay and use it instead of your larger one? I don't think they sound that bad (for $30) but you may be fussier than I wrt delays.

And if you buy a Timmy, read the 1 pager instruction manual. His explanation of the control operations is excellent.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I stole this off another forum. Simple explanation as to how different the TS is from the Timmy

_"The TS kills all the bass before any gain is applied. After that, it kills much of the treble, but then has what is an active treble booster at higher settings! Someone was pointing out at another forum that the TS and similar pedals were created during a time when guitarists used big and loud amps, and the TS was designed around that, for cutting through the clutter.

The Timmy allows you to cut the bass right at the gain stage as you up the drive level. Or you can "cut less" at lower settings where it is intended to act "more like" a booster and less like an OD.

The Timmy cuts treble just like a Rat does, right after the distortion/gain/clipping stage. It is not active like a TS. Again, you typically want to cut more at higher dirt levels, as the upper frequencies become more prevalent and piercing.

The second gain stage in the Timmy is nothing more than a boost stage that doesn't add any clipping.

One of the most important things to take away from the Timmy design (IMO) is that the tone controls are passive - they only subtract. This is why Paul calls them cut controls, and has seemed to wire them "backwards." "_


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Cups said:


> There are some unique elements to a Timmy. But if you look at the schematic it's very similar to a striped down TS. He basically took away the buffers changed up the clipping section and added some simple eq.
> Not bashing it at all. I'm sure it sounds great. And the importance thing is you guys enjoy it.
> The good news is there are not a bunch of parts so it's a good candidate to miniuturize.


So it's a ts with a different and more complicated EQ, a different clipping section, no mid hump and no buffers. I think anything from a Boss OD1 to a Souldfood to an OCD is closer. Every overdrive or distortion pedal has some things in common.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

High/Deaf said:


> Maybe buy a cheap analog mini-delay and use it instead of your larger one? I don't think they sound that bad (for $30) but you may be fussier than I wrt delays.
> 
> And if you buy a Timmy, read the 1 pager instruction manual. His explanation of the control operations is excellent.


I've recently bought a TC mini HOF. I'll be getting a TC mini delay, and now I just need to line up the dirt.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Here is a ditto mini pedal on top of a timmy, not much difference


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

knight_yyz said:


> Here is a ditto mini pedal on top of a timmy, not much difference


You're right. That is probably small enough. I'll likely end up with one, if I see it at a good price.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

adcandour said:


> I've recently bought a TC mini HOF. I'll be getting a TC mini delay, and now I just need to line up the dirt.


Ahhh, you want all mini-pedals. Gotcha. If you find a good small one for a reasonable price, let me know. I'd be interested in one, too.


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## marauder (Oct 19, 2009)

I've seen this one before, but doesn't look readily available, and probably cheaper to just buy a timmy

LPD Caerbannog Overdrive

Reverb store: Lawrence Petross Design | Reverb


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

The mini flashback is limited if you don't have the toneprint app on your mobile smartphone. If you do, it's remarkable. Really.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

For shits and giggles I opened the back of the timmy to see whats inside, and if it wasn't for the battery and the PCB shape, you could put it in a smaller enclosure. I'm not sure if the pots were mounted to the pcb or not. I'm sure someone could make a copy that would fit in a mini, but the 4 knobs and a 3 way switch on a mini does not leave much real estate.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

So I just watched a video on the ****** Lime and I don't see how they can call it a clone. It's transparent, but sounds and acts differently than a Timmy. I like the passive bass and treble on the Timmy. The ****** is not passive


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1) Some simple mods can be great ideas, even if they aren't revolutionary or wholly original. The Timmy is essentially a TS with around 4 sensible mods.

2) I could build you one in a small enclosure if I had the time and energy, but I'm fresh outa both of those.

3) A full-ledge Timmy should be able to fit in aa 1590A-sized chassis. I wouldn't be surprised if Paul Cochrane is working on that right now, given theappetite for both the Timmy and small-form pedals.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I have a Timmy here Chuck if you want to try it out and see if it works for you.

It's the surf green version with a different chip, but very close.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

sulphur said:


> I have a Timmy here Chuck if you want to try it out and see if it works for you.
> 
> It's the surf green version with a different chip, but very close.


Thanks Jock - That would actually be great, but I'm paying for shipping both ways. Let me know if you need me to pm my address.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

adcandour said:


> Thanks Jock - That would actually be great, but I'm paying for shipping both ways. Let me know if you need me to pm my address.


Sure, shoot me a PM and I'll get that off for you to try.


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## Guest (Jun 11, 2017)

Why not buy a used Timmy? Would be easy to flip.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

@sulphur Are all the surf green ones with a different chip? Or you have the version 1 without the switch? bought mine from USA in surf green as well. Had a blue one as well. Wish I had known about stacking back then. Both v2's


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm not sure, if there are different versions, it the chips may be different too.
Take a peek inside, you can't miss it and they're socketed so interchangeable.

afaik, the surf green ones were commissioned by Humbucker Music in the states.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

that's where i got mine from. AFAIK, there are two versions of timmy, v1 has a switch inside with 2 clipping modes, v2 has switch on outside with another clipping option. I've heard you can change the chip, but haven't found anything on which chips do what. Biggest mod i can find is converting the timmy into a jan ray (another timmy rip off with extra clipping options)


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Hmm, I just checked the humbucker music page and the surf green chip is specified as a JRC4559 but they don't specify the chip in the purple version. I should have a/b'd them if that's the case if the blue has a different chip


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

A localforum member had heard that the Timmy sounded better with a 1458 chip. He brought his over and we tried out what must have been a half dozen other chips that I had on hand. And as much as I am sceptical of such things, I have to say we both found the 1458 to sound better than the stock chip. It would seem to be the limitations of the 1458 shave off some of the annoying top end, such that it sounded smoother. even if it did contribute a little more hiss. This would have been about 3 years back. I believe I posted the comparison at the time.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

mhammer said:


> A localforum member had heard that the Timmy sounded better with a 1458 chip. He brought his over and we tried out what must have been a half dozen other chips that I had on hand. And as much as I am sceptical of such things, I have to say we both found the 1458 to sound better than the stock chip. It would seem to be the limitations of the 1458 shave off some of the annoying top end, such that it sounded smoother. even if it did contribute a little more hiss. his would have been about 3 years back. I believe I posted the comparison at the time.


That's the chip that I thought came in the surf green units.

The earliest version of the Timmy pedal had the internal clipping option,
that was long before any of these "special order" Timmy started showing up a few years ago.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I opened mine and saw the JRC4559d chip inside. I have cheap made in china TL072 and a OPA2134. Just tried the 2134, far too noisy. I'll try the tl072 tomorrow. I thought I had some lm1458's from my pedal building stint, but can't find one.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Hey guys, anyone with a timmy run at higher than 9v? I have read you can go to 18v, just wondering if it changes the pedal in anyway. 

I tried a few different op amps I have at home, they all sound like crap compared to whats in there


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

Depends on what chip you use and check the electrolytic caps for their voltage tolerance


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I just checked my surf green unit and it does have the LM1458N.

I also agree with MHammers findings.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

They all say 25v. I have it at 12 now definitely sounds a bit different.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

In theory, running a pedal whose signal-voltage swing is hard-limited by diodes at a higher supply voltage ought not to make much of a difference. If there were no diodes anywhere in the signal path, then yes, higher supply voltage ought to make greater headroom available. But even though the Timmy has a higher clipping threshold because of its use of more diodes, that threshold is still within the range of voltage-swing afforded by a 9V supply. I'm not suggesting that knight is hearing things that aren't there. Rather, whatever differences might be audible will be slight, and probably not a helluva lot different than swapping op-amp chips with the same 9v supply; i.e., audible but very subtle.


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## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

This cat may be able to make you one. I used to have one of his Ibanez Standard fuzz clones and it was excellent. 

KO Amplifiers and Effects Pedals


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Well, thanks to Sulpher (imo, the most giving member on this forum) I've been able to play around with a Timmy - and it works perfectly with my champ. It's a very specific setting that gets it to do what I need, but that's all I wanted.

I'm still going to play with it a little more and then I'll start seeking out a pedal builder to make a tiny one with the same chip in it. If that's too expensive, I'll just crack grab a timmy.

PS - if anyone has sulpher's email address, so I can emt him some coin for shipping the pedal tome, that would be great. I appreciate it, but still...


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)




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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I need to find a what does your meme mean meme


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I went to the local electronics store looking for the Lm1458. Couldn't find one so I asked at the counter. Girl goes and grabs the bag, so I say I'll take 2 just in case. I get home and the bitch upgraded me to 4558's.... I think the lm1458 is an outdated chip and maybe almost vintage, and perhaps that is why it is preferred?


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

adcandour said:


> PS - if anyone has sulpher's email address, so I can emt him some coin for shipping the pedal tome, that would be great. I appreciate it, but still...


Well after all these years and God only knows how many deals between the two of us I'm shocked to find I don't actually have Jock's email address 

Hope that helps


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

davetcan said:


> Well after all these years and God only knows how many deals between the two of us I'm shocked to find I don't actually have Jock's email address
> 
> Hope that helps


Firstly... that was zero help.

Secondly, I can't believe I don't have it either. Dude's mother f'n Keyser Soze. I bet we never hear from him again.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

mhammer said:


> 1) Some simple mods can be great ideas, even if they aren't revolutionary or wholly original. The Timmy is essentially a TS with around 4 sensible mods.
> 
> 2) I could build you one in a small enclosure if I had the time and energy, but I'm fresh outa both of those.
> 
> 3) A full-ledge Timmy should be able to fit in aa 1590A-sized chassis. I wouldn't be surprised if Paul Cochrane is working on that right now, given theappetite for both the Timmy and small-form pedals.


I copied this from the thread I revived on TGP. PaulC wrote this today:

_Actually I did talk to a partner of his about helping me if I decide to do it. Right now I'm just trying to get the Tim back after a bunch of delays. *Maybe after that happens I can look into it*. To be honest though I don't really get the mini pedal thing. I sang when I had a band back in the 90's. It was hard enough trying to look down my nose while singing into a mic to make sure I hit the right pedal. Having tiny pedals real close to each other would have been really tough. I could see it when using a switching rig though._


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Well there you go.

I agree with his logic.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

@davetcan You don't have my email because I've either been the buyer or trader. 

Just ship it back when you're dome Chuck. Pay it forward, if the occasion should ever arise.

I'm not crazy about the tiny pedals if I have to stomp on them regularily. 
I had a mini boost pedal on the band board and it always felt shakey.
With a switcher system, or an always on pedal, or maybe a utility pedal or one that isn't used much.
Maybe that Double-lock would help stabilize them a bit better.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

sulphur said:


> @davetcan
> 
> I'm not crazy about the tiny pedals if I have to stomp on them regularily.
> I had a mini boost pedal on the band board and it always felt shakey.
> ...


I agree. The only one I use regularly is an EP Booster, and it's always on.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I felt the same way. I bought a few mini pedals, and its really hard to stomp the switch when they are all side by side. The timmy enclosure size is my favorite.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Me too. I went down the 'tiny pedal' path (the cheap Chinese ones) just to try the pedals out, but the size is as much as negative as a positive, it turns out. I do like small boards but there's a limit, depending on how busy you are and how much you tap-dance. 

Perhaps they'd be good as always-on effects, but there is no such thing in my world. My amp is always on, the pedals get turned on and off for effect.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

So are you basically looking for a Tiny Timmy?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I did try a good quality Lm1458 in the Timmy today and I see why people like it. Seems to be a little less gain


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Not to be too critical, but just to clear up a few things, so we can talk about such matters accurately.

1) There is no such thing as a "good quality LM1458". The 1458 is a dual 741, which is a 1st (or second, depending on how far back one wishes to go) generation op-amp with pretty pathetic specs compared to what we take for granted these days, 45 or so years after the 1458 first came out. The benefits it provides in a pedal like the Timmy result from what it _can't_ do, rather than what it can do. And in this case, it can't reproduce high frequencies as effectively, which is a boon when the circuit is generating lots of harmonic content, only _some_ of which we want. (The same argument is offered for the use of a similarly hampered LM308 in the original Proco Rat.)

2) The "gain" of the circuit is set by the components around the chip, not the chip itself. So, swapping chips will have no impact whatsoever on the gain of the overall circuit. It can have an impact on the _spectral content_ produced by whatever one sets the gain at, but it does zero, nada, squat, garnicht, rien, to the gain itself. The problem is that, since increasing gain in a 9v circuit generally results in clipping and the added harmonic content that consists of, people tend to equate the obviousness of that harmonic content with "gain". But the harmonic content can be modified in many ways, quite apart from altering gain, just as the gain can be increased without touching the harmonic content. So, best to keep tone and gain as separate concepts, mentally.

I have an obvious - and I suppose to some, annoying - peeve about that. But given how many questions I've fielded from folks who confuse, gain, distortion, and tone in a great many ways, leading to confusions about their pedals and controls, I find some justification for pushing to clearly distinguish between those things. It helps people to get to what they _really_ want from their rig.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

mhammer said:


> Not to be too critical, but just to clear up a few things, so we can talk about such matters accurately.
> 
> 1) There is no such thing as a "good quality LM1458". The 1458 is a dual 741, which is a 1st (or second, depending on how far back one wishes to go) generation op-amp with pretty pathetic specs compared to what we take for granted these days, 45 or so years after the 1458 first came out. The benefits it provides in a pedal like the Timmy result from what it _can't_ do, rather than what it can do. And in this case, it can't reproduce high frequencies as effectively, which is a boon when the circuit is generating lots of harmonic content, only _some_ of which we want. (The same argument is offered for the use of a similarly hampered LM308 in the original Proco Rat.)
> 
> ...


You know...sometimes you're adorable.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm _always_ adorable, buddy. My cheeks hurt from people pinching them so much.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

No offense but I will buy a Vishay component before a piece of crap made in China component. It does make a differnce, as the first 2 LM1458's ( tayda crap)I put in had far too much noise. The Vishay is quiet as a mouse.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

What make are the ones you _don't_ like? I'm curious.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Whatever crap Tayda sells


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