# Traynor YGM3 Filter Caps?



## ampaholic (Sep 19, 2006)

I read all the time about how great the Guitarmate Reverb amps are but I've never been able to get a decent tone out of mine. I just popped the chassis out and I see that the filter caps are original and I suspect all of the other electrolytics as well so an overhaul may be appropriate.
The filter caps are Mallory dual caps wrapped in paper and strapped onto the chassis. Looks like there are 2 dual 40's at 450V.
I suspect I would never find direct replacements for these that will fit physically so what do people use and how do they mount the new filter caps?
Thanks!


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

ampaholic said:


> I read all the time about how great the Guitarmate Reverb amps are but I've never been able to get a decent tone out of mine. I just popped the chassis out and I see that the filter caps are original and I suspect all of the other electrolytics as well so an overhaul may be appropriate.
> The filter caps are Mallory dual caps wrapped in paper and strapped onto the chassis. Looks like there are 2 dual 40's at 450V.
> I suspect I would never find direct replacements for these that will fit physically so what do people use and how do they mount the new filter caps?
> Thanks!


First off, filter caps are not responsible for tone! If they are working then they are working, period.

Their job is to smooth out the rectified DC pulses after the rectifier to provide smooth DC to power the plates of the tubes. When they get old they start to dry up inside. This means they do a poorer job at smoothing. You hear more and more HUM! This hum has nothing to do with the volume control. It will eventually get so bad you can't stand it.

Other than that, the only other thing a filter cap getting old can do is to cause some 'ghost notes' when they are just starting to get bad. This is not that common but it can happen.

So forget about any tone thing! You will spend time and money for nothing. 

Unless they're bad and you've got the hum, of course!:smile:

You're right about not getting exact replacements. I usually just buy Illinois caps from thetubestore.com. These are axial and I drill and mount some solder lug tie strips to support them. This is the least expensive way to go.

If you want to change the tone then you've got to change the circuit. There are a number of Marshall-style tricks that I use. However, I tend to keep them to myself these days. After all, that's part of how I earn my living!:smile: I've modded LOTS of these amps!

However, I've always liked the basic tone of this amp! Perhaps you're still running the original Marsland speaker? Frankly, it sucks! Changing it to an Eminence Wizard or something will make a BIG difference! Both with tone AND more volume!

If you're not that technical and don't want to try modding the circuit I'd start with the speaker if you want to "do it yourself".

:food-smiley-004:


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

Bill's right (as usual  ). If you haven't already, get that Marsland out of there. I put a UK Greenback in mine and it sounds great. Although I'm also playing around with an Emi Tonker. Still sounds good, but I think the greenback is it. 

If that doesn't do it for you, here's a page of Traynor mods: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~dace/vb/mods.html


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## ampaholic (Sep 19, 2006)

Thanks very much for the info guys. I don't think I explained myself very well though. 
I'm certainly no expert but I would question the theory that bad filtering would not affect tone. Regardless, I consider replacing them (as well as all the other 35 year old electrolytics) to be a necessary step in overhauling an old amplifier. I know that some people debate this (i.e. if they work then leave them alone) but I've always thought it best to get the basic engine running well before digging into the fine tuning of tone.
I also know that a speaker swap is the easiest and most effective tonal improvement with transformers and tubes wrestling for second place. The Marsland is long gone but I have a number of Webers, Celestion, Jensen and Eminence speakers that I will try.
All I wanted to know is if there is a standard method of mounting filter caps in these amps.
Thanks again!


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## Adicted to Tubes (Mar 5, 2006)

I would get cap cans like JJ's and replace the cans.You can get clamps and drill a couple of holes and mount them in the same spot the old cans are.
The one thing I do with the Traynors is clip the bright cap off the volume control.It's too bright stock.
The speaker is next.As long as the rest of the amp is good,it should sound good.
They don't sound as good as a princeton reverb or deluxe reverb no matter what you do.I once considered switching to 6V6 power tybes but sold mine before I got to do it.I bet that would sound better.
The trem is great,the reverb sucks.And the new reissue has all the same problems the original has except the bright cap and the speaker.
They don't sound very good and the wiring is as sloppy as the original too.
With lots of mods they can be great amps,but stock they are just ok.

www.claramps.com


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## ampaholic (Sep 19, 2006)

Thanks ATT! I have a pair of 50/50 at 500V JJ's on hand that should work. My YGM3 doesn't have cans though, they are strapped onto the chassis next to the board. I think I can do the same thing with the JJ's.
I think your take on the amp and summary of its capabilities is bang on.
Much appreciated!


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## Michelle (Aug 21, 2006)

Here's how I did mine, I have the same caps, (50/50 500V JJ's I got at local distributor)










It's held in with mounting ty-raps, (see unused one to the left of pic), in the same hole as the orig so no drilling, not sure if these will hold, seem to be ok after a couple years, notice the heat-shrink on the leads, (except grd, shoulda done that), in case it decides to liberate itself from the ty-rap.

:wave:


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

ampaholic said:


> Thanks very much for the info guys. I don't think I explained myself very well though.
> I'm certainly no expert but I would question the theory that bad filtering would not affect tone. Regardless, I consider replacing them (as well as all the other 35 year old electrolytics) to be a necessary step in overhauling an old amplifier. I know that some people debate this (i.e. if they work then leave them alone) but I've always thought it best to get the basic engine running well before digging into the fine tuning of tone.



Well, I guess it depends on how you define 'tone'! If the filtering is bad, you get a bad hum. Hardly a good tone.

However, if you have NO power supply hum and the claim is made that different brands of filter caps will have different tones then we part company. This would be counter to what I have extensively read and studied for over 45 years. I'm not saying you're wrong. I would just need a good technical reference before I could consider such an idea. It is like asking me to accept the chassis colour as a factor to the sound.

That being said, in audiophile circles where you pursue every last, tiny, anal-retentive bit of distortion at levels far below what the human ear can hear anyway (mostly just as ammo for 'bragging wars' with non-technical users) the ESR, or Equivalent Series Resistance of different types of caps can affect tone, at least at higher frequencies. This can be compensated by one of two ways. You can buy a ferociously expensive filter cap from one of those audiophile sites OR you can simply bypass the normal electrolytic filter cap with a cheap mylar cap of .47 mfd or more. A metallized film cap will work fine as well. Electrolytic caps have a poorer ESR rating at the higher frequencies so the other caps will take over that part of the job.

I'm not sure if it's worth the effort even for hifi. There's a LOT of mojo in those circles and what few supporting technical articles I've seen don't seem to be more than technobabble for the innocent. Certainly for guitar, as I keep saying, who wants a hifi sounding guitar amp?

I do agree with you about yanking out old ones as good practice, though. If you bought a 50 year old car that had the original brake shoes it would only make sense to change them! How long would you expect them to last when the car was driven again? How likely would they be to fail at an inconvenient time? There is nothing magical about the technology of 50 year old electrolytics. Modern caps are FAR better! The Illinois caps sold by thetubestore.com are better specs than the old-fashioned style and are SMALLER! This is great for freeing up space.

Not trying to flame. I'm just an old techie who believes that if it can't be measured and explained by good science then it's just crap.

Or worse yet, deceptive advertising from those with a vested interest in taking your money.

:food-smiley-004:


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## ampaholic (Sep 19, 2006)

Wild Bill, I'll defer to your experience versus my lack of knowledge every time! I am purely a hobby amp tinkerer that (so far) hasn't yet electrocuted himself!
Thanks!


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## ampaholic (Sep 19, 2006)

Michelle said:


> Here's how I did mine, I have the same caps, (50/50 500V JJ's I got at local distributor)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I was thinking of doing! Thanks very much for the photo!


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

ampaholic said:


> This is exactly what I was thinking of doing! Thanks very much for the photo!


Michelle does it pretty!:smile:


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## Michelle (Aug 21, 2006)

Wild Bill said:


> Michelle does it pretty!:smile:


:smilie_flagge17:

BTW, you can get those ty-raps at CTC maybe or any electrical dist, I got mine at wor..., I mean, at Kent Building Supplies!


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## ampaholic (Sep 19, 2006)

The caps are already installed! Going to charge them up using my variac and then give it a try!
Thanks for your help everyone!


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

ampaholic said:


> The caps are already installed! Going to charge them up using my variac and then give it a try!
> Thanks for your help everyone!


With new caps I wouldn't bother with the variac. That's kinduva 1950's thing, with old caps that haven't been run in some years.

It doesn't apply to modern filter caps. Does anyone really think that there's a guy with a variac at the end of a Traynor or MesaBoogie production line?

:rockon2:


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

filtering does affect tone: 

bad & blown filters induce hum and other unwanted background noises 

MFD ratings higher or lower can affect the bandwidth of a gain stage 

I think its no accident that a vintage tweed amp with its barely adquate filtering sounds muscial swirley and drips mojo with every note 

If you wish to scientifically prove this to yourself simply recap an amp with 100mfd filters for every stage 

then recap that same amp with 16mfd filters for every stage 

and play them both 

p


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

parkhead said:


> filtering does affect tone:
> 
> bad & blown filters induce hum and other unwanted background noises
> 
> ...


Just don't do it if your amp's got a toob rectifier...too much primary capacitance can make the rectifier go boom


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

nonreverb said:


> Just don't do it if your amp's got a toob rectifier...too much primary capacitance can make the rectifier go boom


yes in reality the 16 main filter might hum 

and the 100 mfd might blow fuses or stress a tube rectifier

I did the experiment years ago & I think it was actually all 50mfd filters vs all 10mfd filters

p


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