# Opinions please



## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

I was at the Elmira show today and saw just the amp I've been looking for, a super reverb. It was sitting on the floor and I asked the guy behind the table as I pointed to it, "how does it work", to which he responded "it works great". It's pretty clean for a '71, so that got me thinking.

I could have plugged it in but the aisle was too busy... I gave it the once over, looked really clean all around and looked all there... so I went for a walk to think about it. The next time around I made a deal with the same guy.

There was a little haggling because at a sale where half the guys are taking cash and you're not, I think your price tag should include tax, but Folkway apparently doesn't... I ended up getting it for a little less than the tag price including tax, so I was semi-happy as the tag price wasn't spectacular ($1100).

When I got home and had a closer look inside, I found a bag of old caps and resistors that I suppose had been replaced, good I thought... but then I noticed that one of the speakers had been disconnected and the leads were in the clamp taped up. I figured they had been servicing it and probably forgot, so I heated up my iron and soldered the leads, done I figured.

So I grab a guitar and plug it in, power it up and wait... oh no... by the second chord I'm sure the speaker I just reconnected is ripped... hmmm that's okay I thought, would probably change the speakers anyhow at some point... but within a minute it's time to have a look for the reason this thing is responding the way it is... power down and off with the back panel, low and behold... an empty rectifier tube socket, no 5u4GB...

So I packed it up and she's on the bench, tube set and speakers coming up... now I look to you gentlemen for opinions on how many places I went wrong, thank you.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I'd be calling Folkway first thing tomorrow. That really sucks.


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## GWN! (Nov 2, 2014)

The seller should have told you that one of the speakers was bad. The info was posted on their website so they knew that they amp had been modified and that one of the speakers did not work. You should have been informed. 

http://www.folkwaymusic.com/vintage...e-not-guitars-/1971-fender-super-reverb-0415/

I would want a full refund or at the very least a replacement speaker and a rectifier tube from them.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Man, that is a great looking amp though.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

If the amp is in otherwise good condition, I would keep it. But I would also press Folkway for compensation for the lack of disclosure, at least free replacement of the missing/defective parts. Without disclosure of the existing issues with the amp, you would have reasonably assumed you were buying an amp in full working condition, which as it turns out, it wasn't.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

I'm only guessing BUT I think this is the exact same amp that is still on the Folkway website.(listed as sold)
It has the full disclosure about the disconnected speaker.

http://www.folkwaymusic.com/vintage...e-not-guitars-/1971-fender-super-reverb-0415/

cant comment about the rectifier tube but I found the speaker stuff interesting.
and yes...its does look like the amp is in good shape.

G.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

You took the seller's word at face value, which wasn't "wrong". Here's what I would have asked before discussing the purchase price however:

- if everything on the amp was functioning normally
- if it had been serviced recently and, if so, precisely what work was performed (eg filter & bypass caps replaced? retube/rebias? etc)
- whether any other repair work or parts replacement was required
- if all of the transformers were original.

I also would have at least plugged in and played it briefly to confirm full functioning. Granted, I'm pretty anal about such things but you probably could have done more in this case. If I was told that a speaker needed repair AND the PT had been replaced, I definitely would have been negotiating the price DOWN from $1100. Regardless, they owe you a rectifier tube and replacement speaker if they didn't disclose that. 

Steve


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## Fox Rox (Aug 9, 2009)

Mark from Folkway is a good guy to deal with. I am sure if you call him the two of you can come up with someway to rectify this.


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## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

You asked the question to a reputable seller ,

How does it work ?

It works Great !!!

And then You were confident so I think they should fix You up for this,
you were not buying from their website that explained all the issues but
from a show and trusted the seller's word !

He should have answered "It works great but !!!!


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Thanks guys, no doubt I could have been more thorough but to be honest while missing the disconnected speaker was clueless (it's the lower left and pretty obvious), there was really no way to notice the missing tube, and after hearing it I can say a quick low volume demo on the spot would not have turned it up.

To me it doesn't mean anything that the speaker issue is noted on the website, I bought at the sale and asked.

With regard to the missing tube, I'm not sure how it runs without the rectifier tube or if it causes any damage doing so, but it's the far left tube and you can't see it until you remove the panel, so not knowing or telling me it's short a tube is what really kills me.

So I pronounce Folkway guilty on the count of supplying an amp without a rectifier tube, and said sales guy "shady", for not being assured that I had noticed the toasted speaker.

Yes that's the one pictured on their website as sold and I'll be keeping it because I love these amps and it's easily the cleanest one I've seen in ages, with some work it'll be perfect - I've ordered full tube set from feebay. 

Anyway, I sent them a quick email earlier and left it up to them to suggest a way to deal with it, let's see what they say, I'll keep you posted.

edit; BTW there were two tags on the amp - neither one made mention of the 3 speaker set up, nor did the hand written bill they gave me... appeal denied.


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

You might want to ask if any modifications were done to the amp, and who serviced it. There is no way it can be even making noise without the rectifier tube installed unless someone has wired in solid state rectifiers. In which case you don't want the tube in there and in which case it is not a Super any more. This amp may need to be checked out by someone who you trust. Who knows what else is not right.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

The replaced power transformer would be a significant issue to me. The speaker although an issue, isn't a deal breaker. If the amp works without the rectifier, it's got diodes installed.....hopefully with some kind of drop resistor.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

I’m actually quite interested to hear the explanation for how this thing runs with and empty rectifier tube socket, I figured I’d wait for a response from Folkway before going off the deepend, which I certainly will should my suspicions be confirmed.


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## J-75 (Jul 29, 2010)

Fox Rox said:


> Mark from Folkway is a good guy to deal with. I am sure if you call him the two of you can come up with someway to *rectify* this.


Good one !


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I was helping a friend at his table in Elmira and I watched a happy looking fellow move a SR on a two wheeled dolly through the crowd to the back door. Maybe it was you?!

It looked like a beautiful amp. Sorry to hear that you are going through these frustrating issues.

This is certainly not good for Folkway's reputation.

I will be following the thread with interest.

Cheers

Dave


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Well, clearly, if it makes any sound at all without a rectifier tube (or plug in SS rectifier) then it's been converted to SS rectification. Nobody "owes" you a rectifier tube then, just an explanation of why changes from the stock set-up weren't mentioned. And if I had to guess, the change to SS rectification was likely due to the replacement PT lacking an additional tap for a tube rectifier.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Well here's the response;

"Hi Jim-

I'd sorry that you weren't made aware of those details at the show. The amp works perfectly and has just been serviced. The output transformer has been changed along with the rectifier circuit, so there's no longer a tube involved. The speaker is non-functional, but our tech recommended leaving it as it sits as the 3 speaker load actually works well with the output impedence, and the amp sounds incredible.


All the details about it are clearly explained on the write-up on our site. We priced the amp with discounting appropriate to the modifications.


That said, if you'd prefer not to keep it please bring it back to our shop in waterloo for a refund.


Thanks,
Mark"

And my response;

"Mark,


I'm sorry isn't going to cut it this time and it doesn't matter what's written on your website, I didn't buy it on line. Additionally your comments about price discounting are meaningless, pricing is relative...

My position is that at "vintage" show, when your item tag doesn't note "as is" and you or your sales people don't make the customer aware, especially about the transformer / rectifier issue, you've made a mistake which is going to cost you.


To think that I would drive to Waterloo now to make a return at my expense is crazy and just pisses me off further, I'm not going out of my way to make up for you or your staff.


I'm going to make you a one time offer to make this go away - send a $400.00 to the name and address on the sales bill, otherwise I'll simply turn this one over to my lawyer and you can pay me the damages and costs arising.


Thanks, Jim."


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2015)




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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Jimmy_D said:


> Well here's the response;
> 
> "Hi Jim-
> 
> ...


Wow. So much for leaving any room for negotiation. Not sure how the $400 figure was arrived at but you should at least be prepared to provide a rationale for it. Honestly, if it was me on the other end, best I would do is cover your gas to return it for full refund....otherwise, I'd say go ahead and call your lawyer. Your response was disproportionate IMO...


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

StevieMac said:


> ....Honestly, if it was me on the other end, best I would do is cover your gas to return it for full refund.....


IMO, this seems like a very fair option to consider. 

Following this thread with interest.

Dave


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

I have no intention of driving to get a refund, that's beyond stupid and as noted even the suggestion pisses me off. I also don't care enough about the money to make any further effort. So he can pay my arbitrary number or spend money defending his actions, and I don't need to actually call my lawyer, she lives with me...


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2015)

wouldn't that be considered a conflict of interest? lol.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Over the top IMO. There's absolutely no rational reason I can see to not want to spend the time and money to go get a refund but be willing to spend the time and money filing in small claims court, waiting goodness knows how long to get a date and taking a day off work to go to court with only the CHANCE of being made whole. After all, it's up to you to PROVE you were, more likely than not, lied to about the condition at the time of sale on a USED product. I can only assume that there are no specific warranties written on your bill of sale. Hopefully you're live-in lawyer has enough sense to advise you to just go get your refund and move on with your life.

I was quite interested in this thread and any possible resolution...until the lawyer nonsense. Stop. Take a few calming breaths. Reconsider the ridiculousness of your DEMANDS. Then go get your money and call it a day.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Well I was about to comment that a lawyer would cost you a lot more than $400 but I would have been wrong, LOL.

Looking at asking prices on Fleabay most late 60's early 70's Silverfaces seem to be running around $1300 US and up for clean ones. That's close to $1600 Canadian. If you got it for less than $1100 taxes in you still did well. Having said that you have the right to expect, and get, full disclosure from a business, especially as it was already well documented on their website. So in my opinion they owe you a full refund plus the expense of getting the amp back to them, by whatever means they choose. You can likely ship for $100.

I'll be interested in hearing they're response to the $400, which is a bit over the top in my opinion also, but then of course it wasn't me they screwed


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Wow, that does seem a bit over the top. You had the opportunity to inspect and play the amp before buying right? It wasn't a sight unseen purchase? Perhaps you didn't do your due diligence? Is it the seller's responsibility to hold your hand and point out everything not stock?

Not trying to be a dick, just offering my opinion which your thread title solicited.

I too am curious about where the $400 number comes from.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

gtrguy said:


> Wow, that does seem a bit over the top. You had the opportunity to inspect and play the amp before buying right? It wasn't a sight unseen purchase? Perhaps you didn't do your due diligence? Is it the seller's responsibility to hold your hand and point out everything not stock?
> 
> Not trying to be a dick, just offering my opinion which your thread title solicited.
> 
> I too am curious about where the $400 number comes from.


By the OPs own admission...arbitrary number. This is like a train wreck. I don't wanna watch, but I can't look away.

Personally, if I were the seller, and made a fair offer for resolution (when there is no warranty involved and the customer chose not to test or inspect the item prior to purchase) only to be replied to like THAT...I would revoke my offer. The seller wasn't obligated to do ANYTHING and likely only made the offer he did as a sign of goodwill. 

At first I kind of shared the view of the OP, but as it has been unfolding, I'm more inclined to empathize with the seller, a largely, well respected store...even if they're pricey. It's starting to sound more and more like the buyer thought he was getting a steal only to realize he didn't.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Okay guys I guess you missed the part where I said I don't care enough about the money to drive to 7uckin waterloo, my time is worth more to me, that "its a clean amp and I'm keeping it".

Words can hardly express how little I care if I never see a cent, it's not worth the hassle worrying over the money and going to small claims is the last thing I'd do... but for the record, if you think that having a customer eat it for your mistake or misleading sales tactics, then drive 5 or 6 hours at his expense to *rectify* things, and you're actually dumb enough to propose that, then I don't know what more can be said other than go ahead spend your time responding to lawyers letters and see how you like having other people eat your time.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> This is like a train wreck.


Methinks you've lost the plot- it's a Fender not a Trainwreck! :smiley-faces-75:


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Jimmy_D said:


> misleading sales tactics


I didn't really see anything about misleading sales tactics... is there more to the story?

To be honest, I wouldn't make that kind of drive either (I didn't realize you were 5 or 6 hours away). In your shoes I probably would have taken the refund and shipped the amp back to them on my own dime unless I was *really* in love with the tone... in which case I wouldn't give a crap about the PT or the rectifier. Early 70's Supers aren't that hard to find...


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

JBFairthorne said:


> By the OPs own admission...arbitrary number. This is like a train wreck. I don't wanna watch, but I can't look away.
> 
> Personally, if I were the seller, and made a fair offer for resolution (when there is no warranty involved and the customer chose not to test or inspect the item prior to purchase) only to be replied to like THAT...I would revoke my offer. The seller wasn't obligated to do ANYTHING and likely only made the offer he did as a sign of goodwill.
> 
> At first I kind of shared the view of the OP, but as it has been unfolding, I'm more inclined to empathize with the seller, a largely, well respected store...even if they're pricey. It's starting to sound more and more like the buyer thought he was getting a steal only to realize he didn't.


Just to be clear, you think given the circumstances a reasonable offer is for me to drive 5 hours round trip to get my money back?


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Jimmy_D said:


> Okay guys I guess you missed the part where I said I don't care enough about the money to drive to 7uckin waterloo, my time is worth more to me, that "its a clean amp and I'm keeping it"...blah blah blah


Well, if you're intent on keeping it then I assume you like it too much to return it and would simply prefer a remedy for issues you were not made aware of. I also didn't realize you were a 5-6 hr round trip away....is the seller aware of that fact? Anyway...do your homework and produce a figure that actually makes some sense based on probable devaluation. Assuming the seller will even bother listening to you now, present that figure (along with the rationale) and see what they say. If you need help figuring out the devaluation piece, just ask folks here. I may know a thing or two about vintage Fender valuation myself for instance...


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

StevieMac said:


> Well, if you're intent on keeping it then I assume you like it too much to return it and would simply prefer a remedy for issues you were not made aware of. I also didn't realize you were a 5-6 hr round trip away....is the seller aware of that fact? Anyway...do your homework and produce a figure that actually makes some sense based on probable devaluation. Assuming the seller will even bother listening to you now, present that figure (along with the rationale) and see what they say. If you need help figuring out the devaluation piece, just ask folks here. I may know a thing or two about vintage Fender valuation myself for instance...


Steve, it's really pretty simple, I'm keeping it as I have no issue dealing with what I paid or what I got, it's easily fixed.

It just pisses me off that he suggests _rectifying_ things would be at my expense as given the situation, that is just dumb.

As for the $400, here's something interesting - 30 ft away from the Folkway table was another super reverb, a '69 model that only had 3 functional speakers but a fully original chassis according to the seller, cosmetically it was a little too beat for my liking so I chose to pay Folkway $400 more.

- - - Updated - - -

Wait, there's more;

"Hi Jim -


My apologies, I was not aware of how far away from Waterloo you live when I replied earlier today. I agree wholeheartedly that my staff had a responsibility to make you aware of all the amplifier's modifications in advance of your purchase, and we certainly did fail on that front. It is for this reason that I have offered you a full refund on the purchase. In addition to this refund, I would like the opportunity to come up with a conclusion that won't further inconvenience you. One of my staff travels to Peterborough regularly and has generously offered to make a side-trip to Sunderland to retrieve the amp and deliver your refund within the next couple of weeks.


Please let me know if this is something that you feel could work for you.


Many thanks,


Mark"

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like someone is coming around to my way of thinking - that given the misinformation it's not my job to drive Waterloo for a refund, how the 7uck do you like that...


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Jimmy_D said:


> Just to be clear, you think given the circumstances a reasonable offer is for me to drive 5 hours round trip to get my money back?


Actually, yes I do. YOU CHOSE to buy an item from a retailer 5-6 hours from you, who just happened to be near you temporarily. YOU CHOSE to buy a used item without trying it, without inspecting it and without getting anything regarding the stated condition IN WRITING. The seller wasn't obligated to give you a refund at all. He certainly wasn't obligated to give you the refund AND reimburse you for travel time and expenses. Hell, why not hit him for thread posting expenses too? Pain and suffering? An extra $100 just for the hell of it?

I can almost FEEL the veins popping out on your forehead, yet you say you don't care about the money. You don't care about the money, yet you DEMANDED $400. Wouldn't REQUESTING that they arrange for pickup/delivery been more reasonable?

Honestly, take a step back for a minute and TRY to see this OBJECTIVELY. Do you really think you're being reasonable? Send me $400 or else...? I DO get that you're upset. I DO get that your initial reaction might be to feel this way. I DON'T get that after a little time to think about it and ALL of the associated details, including YOUR OWN errors, that you wouldn't gain at least a little perspective.

EDIT...

After reading the latest post, at least one party seems reasonable.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

I'm just trying to understand the situation: so if the damaged speaker is left disconnected, does it still play okay and sound good as it is? If so, if you *had *played it at the guitar show then it would have sounded good, right?

Your concern is that it was sold to you as having no modifications done, but in reality it had a changed transformer and had been modifed so as not to use a rectifier tube ?


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

JBFairthorne said:


> Actually, yes I do. YOU CHOSE to buy an item from a retailer 5-6 hours from you, who just happened to be near you temporarily. YOU CHOSE to buy a used item without trying it, without inspecting it and without getting anything regarding the stated condition IN WRITING. The seller wasn't obligated to give you a refund at all. He certainly wasn't obligated to give you the refund AND reimburse you for travel time and expenses. Hell, why not hit him for thread posting expenses too? Pain and suffering? An extra $100 just for the hell of it?
> 
> I can almost FEEL the veins popping out on your forehead, yet you say you don't care about the money. You don't care about the money, yet you DEMANDED $400. Wouldn't REQUESTING that they arrange for pickup/delivery been more reasonable?
> 
> ...


Excellent post, you slay me with your knowledge.

- - - Updated - - -



bagpipe said:


> I'm just trying to understand the situation: so if the damaged speaker is left disconnected, does it still play okay and sound good as it is? If so, if you *had *played it at the guitar show then it would have sounded good, right?
> 
> *Your concern is that it was sold to you as having no modifications done, but in reality it had a changed transformer and had been modifed so as not to use a rectifier tub*e ?


Yup, that's it


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Kudos to the seller then who, _upon realizing _that you live so far away (and thus a return would be quite onerous), provided a perfectly reasonable remedy. If you don't take them up on such an offer, THAT would be dumb IMO.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

StevieMac said:


> Kudos to the seller then who, _upon realizing _that you live so far away (and thus a return would be quite onerous), provided a perfectly reasonable remedy. If you don't take them up on such an offer, THAT would be dumb IMO.


Wait.. you're saying Folkway sells an amp at a "vintage" show with these tags, not a mention of any mods or that's it's running modified for no rectifier tube, and it's "perfectly reasonable" for them to offer a refund as my only alternative, right?

Please note, the tags mention dick about the issues, and yes Mr. Fairthorne as you can see, there's still room to write "AS IS"..


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Jimmy_D said:


> ....One of my staff travels to Peterborough regularly and has generously offered to make a side-trip to Sunderland to retrieve the amp and deliver your refund within the next couple of weeks.
> 
> Looks like someone is coming around to my way of thinking ...


Are you now considering this option?

Dave


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Jimmy_D said:


> Please note, the tags mention dick about the issues, and yes Mr. Fairthorne as you can see, there's still room to write "AS IS"..
> 
> View attachment 13464


There's also room to write "original" or "30 day warranty" or "unmodified", but they didn't. If you wanted something specific on there regarding the condition or any warranties you were clearly expecting, you have the right to ask them to make a notation. If they refused, that would be a big warning sign.

You're not even willing to acknowledge the fact that errors were made by BOTH parties involved in the transaction? Sigh...


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

JBFairthorne said:


> There's also room to write "original" or "30 day warranty" or "unmodified", but they didn't. If you wanted something specific on there regarding the condition or any warranties you were clearly expecting, you have the right to ask them to make a notation. If they refused, that would be a big warning sign.
> 
> You're not even willing to acknowledge the fact that errors were made by BOTH parties involved in the transaction? Sigh...



Pardon me doctor Einstein but it seems you weren't copied on the most important part of the brief, allow me to reiterate; 

The thread started with *me* asking where *I* went wrong. *Me* meaning *me*. I've already stated the disconnected speaker was obvious and it's my fault for missing it. I also noted that the Rec tube could not have been seen unless the panel was removed and not heard unless the amp was cranked which wasn't going to happen there anyway. 

It's is my position that given the above, given the tags on the amp, and with the opportunity I gave the sales guy to inform me when I asked, that I don't need to drive a further 5 hours to get my money back, and if it's not going back at my expense I want some compensation, furthermore I justified my $400 compensation claim with details of another amp at the same sale.

Sadly for you your circular argument has been laid to waste buy the seller himself, who admits the buyer (*that's me*) should have been informed* (by the seller, Folklore*) of the situation, furthermore *they* have suggested that given *they did not inform me* of said mods, a full refund *at their expense* is warranted. 

By virtue of the above admissions from the seller and my points above, I've deemed that your argument was and is pure rubbish, that your level of butthurt (rivaled only by that of nkjanssen's) over the situation is unwarranted... and personally I think you should look into _rectifiying_ this situation with an admission of guilt, then consider approaching the next "train wreck" by not being personally offended for someone else and then forgetting to think before the butthurt pours out.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Edited because...well, I'm worried you might go off the deep end (assuming you haven't already).


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## Steve C (Nov 3, 2008)

Jimmy's original post about all of this did not point to Folkway as being at fault...it was an inquiry of opinions. As a reader of the post I cringed though at reading something that had not given Mark the opportunity to rectify the situation before it got angry internet exposure. I have never met Mark, but I have heard nothing but remarks of professionalism about he and his team. His response was honest and left nothing open for further criticism. Pleasing his customer with no lies and no hesitation. It is VERY hard to find a business like that today...regardless of the trade. This story confirms what I have always known about Folkway Music...I will never hesitate to recommend them. Jimmy, you sound like a very skilled tech yourself. I really hope you end up keeping the amp 'cause it sounds like your magic could make the thing become a tone monster.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

JBFairthorne said:


> Edited because...well, I'm worried you might go off the deep end (assuming you haven't already).


Go off the deepend when I have all three people agreeing with me, surely not.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Jimmy_D said:


> Wait.. you're saying Folkway sells an amp at a "vintage" show with these tags, not a mention of any mods or that's it's running modified for no rectifier tube, and it's "perfectly reasonable" for them to offer a refund as my only alternative, right?


Yep, along with an admission of fault (already offered), that's EXACTLY what I'm saying. And if you don't accept the offer, frankly, it could raise questions about intent to capitalize on the seller's mistake as opposed to accepting an entirely sensible solution. That's just an opinion however, which I believe you've been soliciting here all along...


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

StevieMac said:


> Yep, along with an admission of fault (already offered), that's EXACTLY what I'm saying. And if you don't accept the offer, frankly, it could raise questions about intent to capitalize on the seller's mistake as opposed to accepting an entirely sensible solution. That's just an opinion however, which I believe you've been soliciting here all along...


I don't see anything wrong with capitalizing on a sellers mistake that happens every day in business, but that's not the case here.

I agree that Mark noting that I should have been informed and offering to pick up the amp is a reasonable solution, and that's what Ive asked him to do, ultimately his response to this has been good.

Though you must admit that it's the best option for his business, as one would expect. IMO in addition to spelling out the situation with the amp (which Mark did), offering a partial refund should have been part of the initial response to my email, suggesting I drive back to Waterloo (and yes my address is on the bill and sales person knows exactly where I live because we spoke about it), should not have been part of his initial response.

Anywho, I will say this is one of the cleanest amps I've seen and it does pain me to send it back, but given the only option is pay $1050 "as is" or it goes back, well I have little choice.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Jimmy_D said:


> I don't see anything wrong with capitalizing on a sellers mistake


Wow... so all is fine if they make a mistake and you get the advantage but that door doesn't swing both ways does it? Hypocritical.


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

Jimmy_D said:


> I agree that Mark noting that I should have been informed and offering to pick up the amp is a reasonable solution, and that's what Ive asked him to do, ultimately his response to this has been good.


I have just read through this whole thread. Your level or aggression has surpassed any level that is required to deal with this situation in a civilized manner. Back in post #17 you stated:



Jimmy_D said:


> you've made a mistake which is going to cost you.


To me that sounds like you want revenge. That's an aggressive statement to make in my opinion.



Jimmy_D said:


> To think that I would drive to Waterloo now to make a return at my expense is crazy and just pisses me off further


You could have kindly let him know how far away you live.



Jimmy_D said:


> I'm going to make you a one time offer to make this go away - send a $400.00 to the name and address on the sales bill, otherwise I'll simply turn this one over to my lawyer and you can pay me the damages and costs arising.


All of a sudden the door is shut on returns and you demand $400. There seemed to be no negotiation on return. I am very surprised Mark came back at all with an offer of pickup and delivery of the return money. Could there not have been some benefit of the doubt given on your side? Maybe the staff was unaware of the changes? They should have been but we are all humans. Mistakes are made. Based off your response, I would have expected a much more reasonable approach to his initial offer coming from an adult.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

I know you guys are trying, and I know you said you read the thread, but reading what you've posted one might think otherwise.

What's your rationale for the comments in light of the fact that they're coming to pick up the amp?

- - - Updated - - -



dcole said:


> I have just read through this whole thread. Your level or aggression has surpassed any level that is required to deal with this situation in a civilized manner. Back in post #17 you stated:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To think that I would "negotiate" a return, or that this is a simple "mistake" is so dumb and so unworthy of a response, that all I can do is point that out.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

...................


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

So that's where your sig comes from 



adcandour said:


> ...................
> View attachment 13508


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

Jimmy_D said:


> To think that I would "negotiate" a return, or that this is a simple "mistake" is so dumb and so unworthy of a response, that all I can do is point that out.


I am glad you replied then.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

I'd be curious for more information. It doesn't seem that the amp may not be sooo off of spec that it can't be put back quite easily. I would want to know who modded it and why. They said it was the OT that was changed out but they also talk about how the impedance works out well. Is this because removing one of 4 parallel speakers doesn't change the impedance enough to concern anyone, or is it that the replacement OT matches the 3 speaker situation better because it is different spec than the original?

Also, if it is just the OT that was replaced, and the PT is totally fine, was the rectifier swapped to SS just because that was a preference of some random guy? They wanted to save the money on replacing the rectifier tube, so they dropped in some diodes and resisters? I'm surprised someone wouldn't swap back to a rectifier tube before selling the amp, knowing how much more attractive that makes it for very little cost and trouble.

I think if I liked the way the amp sounded, I might request a replacement rectifier tube, as recompense for not disclosing information that I neglected to ask. That does seem important when talking about a vintage amp (whether it is the buyer or seller- weird that neither party brought it up, I'm not sure whom was assuming more to a fault). If I neglected to disclose such details when selling, I would be quite ashamed; and if I neglected to ask about (or look for) such details when buying, I would be quite embarrassed.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Congrats on getting the issue between you and the seller finally resolved. I'd say you won the battle in this case but likely lost the war since I doubt the seller wants anything to do with you ever again. In the process, you've also undoubtedly alienated yourself from anyone encountering this thread....though perhaps you don't care about such things.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

bcmatt said:


> They said it was the OT that was changed out but they also talk about how the impedance works out well. Is this because removing one of 4 parallel speakers doesn't change the impedance enough to concern anyone, or is it that the replacement OT matches the 3 speaker situation better because it is different spec than the original?


It's my understanding that it was the PT that was changed. The replacement does not have the 5V winding for the rectifier heater, so a tube rectifier can no longer be used.
As to the speaker impedance, if it is the typical four 8ohm speakers in parallel for 2ohm load, it only works out to 10% difference, 2.2 instead of 2ohms. No big deal and I'm sure the power handling of each speaker is still no problem.
Some of the Fender custom shop amps had three speakers and I doubt they had custom impedances or non-standard OT's.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

1234567890


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

From someone interested in electronics, that seems like an interesting and creative way to do SS rectification. 

Possibly it is a standard approach to the conversion form tube to SS??...Is it??

Cheers

Dave


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Bypassing the rectifier tube by soldering in 4 1N4007 diodes is an old mod that has been said to increase volume by 10 watts or so, also a good way to deal with no heater supply.

The best way to do the mod however, is to make a "module" housing the diodes that does the conversion by plugging into the tube socket, that way the module can be pulled and a tube inserted and you're back to stock.


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