# I just preordered the Tesla cybertruck



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Mostly just to start an internet argument.
My ‘Berta friends are not happy with me.
Please no rock throwing.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Are there any cancellation fees .. lol


----------



## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

I figure it’s worth $100


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

What happened to the Rivian?










That Cybertruck is hideous.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

The deposit is refundable, and I have like 2 years to change my mind before the tri motor version’s in production. I’ll be due for a new truck by then anyways. I could get used to a grand less a month of fuel expenses


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

They don't say anything about how long the batterys will last if you are using the compressor and power outlets on a construction site. Especially if the kid you hired is running a plugged in skill saw for 8 hrs and you have a welder there too. I wonder how it rides with a lift of 10' 2x12s in it. Not too sure if any of them will do the 0 to 60 with a load of gravel in it either. It's what a 1 1/2 cy box? In concept it's like the old army power wagons only faster. Sounds more like the bosses truck to me. BTW you live in Ottawa......most Alberta people aren't happy with anyone who lives and works in Ottawa.
With production starting in 2 to 3 years you're looking at what, getting the truck in 2025?


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> They don't say anything about how long the batterys will last if you are using the compressor and power outlets on a construction site. Especially if the kid you hired is running a plugged in skill saw for 8 hrs and you have a welder there too.


What's the relevance? You can't run these on any current gas or diesel rig either. 

I think you can get like a 400 watt outlet in some truck beds, enough to charge the batteries to your electric circular saw, but only if the truck is running. Expensive generator.


----------



## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

They have a pre order of 146,000 just hate the design


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Is this where we talk about driving escorts and strippers around in our new Cybertruck? All of my girls are also top notch tradespeople, Blossom can nail down a bundle of shingles and do a rail off your body, making your bachelor party a night you’ll never forget


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

LanceT said:


> What's the relevance? You can't run these on any current gas or diesel rig either.
> 
> I think you can get like a 400 watt outlet in some truck beds, enough to charge the batteries to your electric circular saw, but only if the truck is running. Expensive generator.


With the right inverter in the system you can or you can get a generator. All I'm wondering is what affect the draw would be 'cause you know people will try. Even if you're only charging batteries for power tools. That in itself could draw a lot of power. As far as the 'expensive' generator BS goes, if you're in construction or one of the other trades you need the truck anyway. The outlets on the Tesla are probably just another lost liter to get people to buy the truck. And why put in a 240V outlet if you can't run something heavy? 
Here's another scenario. You're out camping with your 40' trailer in the bush for 5 days say at Ross Lake. I presume you'll be able to get a 5th wheel set up but from the looks of the body shape maybe not. To keep the kids and the wife happy the trailer is plugged into the truck to keep the batteries charged up. When my kid goes out quading he's sometimes gone for 5 or 6 days. If his girlfriend is with him then the truck gets started and run probably once a day for a while. Not too sure if the electric truck would last that long before you had to go plug it in.


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> if you're in construction or one of the other trades you need the truck anyway.


A lot of guys on my site take transit.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

vadsy said:


> Is this where we talk about driving escorts and strippers around in our new Cybertruck? All of my girls are also top notch tradespeople, Blossom can nail down a bundle of shingles and do a rail off your body, making your bachelor party a night you’ll never forget


Keep it going so I can be numb to it by the time I’m driving it


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Range is 800km on the tri motor, obviously less with a load but it’s rated similar to my dodge 3500 dually. I’ll still need/keep a heavy duty truck but could part with my half ton when this arrives and save a load on fuel. And I can just plug it into customers houses while we work haha haha haha not kidding


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

LanceT said:


> A lot of guys on my site take transit.


And more don't. Can't see living in Maple ridge and taking transit to say Langley or Haney even. Poco maybe but that's iffy. Especially if you're hauling your tools. I see some drywallers and nail pounders and tin bashers on the transit around here but you go by any job site and there's a lot of trucks and trailers. Especially when there is no near transit. Not a lot take cabs or uber either. I imagine it's the same on the coast. Walk a block or 3 maybe but that's about it. 
Out here probably 2/3rds of the trucks sold, at least in the cities, are because hey, it's Alberta and you just have to have a truck. Kinda funny to see a 20 something office worker in a micro mini with 4" or more spiked heels and a light jacket walking to a parking lot in the snow and getting into her stepped up truck with 22" wheels. Free peep show. Then seeing the truck stuck behind a bus after she did a 12 point turn to get out of the parking lot. Drive 3' and stop then drive another 3' etc.. Doesn't matter if it's fuel or not, can't be good for mileage.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

What colour did you order?


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mike_oxbig said:


> Range is 800km on the tri motor, obviously less with a load but it’s rated similar to my dodge 3500 dually. I’ll still need/keep a heavy duty truck but could part with my half ton when this arrives and save a load on fuel. And I can just plug it into customers houses while we work haha haha haha not kidding


I thought I saw 500 or so. 
"The base version of the Cybertruck, with a single motor, will start at $39,900, good for 250 miles of range, a tow rating of 7,500 pounds, and a 0- to 60-mph time of 6.5 seconds. A dual-motor $49,000 version can tow 10,000 pounds and reach 60 mph in 4.5 seconds, with 300 miles of range. And the top-of-the-line variant, starting at $69,900, will go more than 500 miles between charges, hit 60 mph in under 3 seconds, tow up to 14,000 pounds, and start production in late 2022. That one, according to a slide Musk showed, has a tri-motor setup, though the CEO didn’t explain how that would work. (Single-motor setups tend to put the motor on the rear axle, dual-motor setups put one motor on each axle.)" There is the plug into the site thing if there is power to the site I suppose. I know a couple of guys who run hoes.....usually no power when they get to the site. I wonder how the truck would fair with even a 50 gal. tidy tank, full of diesel, and pulling one of these on a trailer.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

@Electraglide
Confirmation bias - Wikipedia

I wouldn't mind finding out a bit more about the Tesla you've ordered @mike_oxbig . I started reading this thread for that purpose and not to read someone's opinion on what's best for everyone else to be honest. It's becoming Trollworthy IMO. Sounds like the mileage is covered nicely.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


> Here's some good reading on the subject.
> 
> Confirmation bias - Wikipedia


Well, from what I understand from the net, these things aren't in production yet so all the info out there is from what could be called experimental models and everything will probably change some before Mike gets his truck so I guess there is some bias, confirmed or not. If the truck had been on the streets for a couple of years then things would be different.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Dorian2 said:


> @Electraglide
> Confirmation bias - Wikipedia
> 
> I wouldn't mind finding out a bit more about the Tesla you've ordered @mike_oxbig . I started reading this thread for that purpose and not to read someone's opinion on what's best for everyone else to be honest. It's becoming Trollworthy IMO. Sounds like the mileage is covered nicely.


Honestly, I wouldn’t mind finding more about it either


----------



## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

mike_oxbig said:


> Range is 800km on the tri motor, obviously less with a load but it’s rated similar to my dodge 3500 dually. I’ll still need/keep a heavy duty truck but could part with my half ton when this arrives and save a load on fuel. And I can just plug it into customers houses while we work haha haha haha not kidding


Mike i wonder how sturdy and well built they will be. Trucks work harder than cars and not sure they will be up to the test, well at least the first generation. Hope that they work out for you .


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Could be the "whole enchilada" or could be "pie in the sky" -- either way thanks for inviting us for supper. Guess we will find out (eventually, lol). 

My little experience with battery powered electricity at camp has been less than impressive, but still OK in many ways. Definitely expensive. Definitely limiting. Definitely better to have a gas-guzzling generator. 

But once again, thanks for the invite. Keep us posted! Should be fun!


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

mike_oxbig said:


> Honestly, I wouldn’t mind finding more about it either


Does Tesla have any specs on what to expect from it? I'm wondering what your expectations are when they start production. I'd imagine you have something in mind for the preorder of the model, with the option that you've mentioned to opt out if it doesn't look like it'll work out for your expectations.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

My gmc 1500 with a V8 has a payload rating of 1840lbs, tow weight 7100lbs. That was heavily upgraded when it was my only truck. Regardless it’s what it’s rated for so is what it’s legal for. I get 450-500km out of a 90L tank, towing and hauling for most of it.

My dodge 3500 dually with a 6.7 Cummins diesel has a payload rating of 8319, can haul a 17000lb trailer. I’ll get about 450km out of a 140$ tank of diesel, towing and hauling for most of it.

The Tesla claims to have a payload capacityu of 3500lbs and a towing capacity of 14000lbs, claims an 800km life so we’ll just call that 400. That’s still ~100$ saved per charge 

I wonder what it weighs.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Dorian2 said:


> Does Tesla have any specs on what to expect from it? I'm wondering what your expectations are when they start production. I'd imagine you have something in mind for the preorder of the model, with the option that you've mentioned to opt out if it doesn't look like it'll work out for your expectations.


It was a very small deposit and it’s refundable. I’d hope they make many changes before production


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Accurate


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

We'll see what happens when they hit the street. The busted windows was a big mistake. Why didn't they try this before doing it in front of the world?
I am more interested to see the semi. There have been some decent pre-orders from some of the big users, so they seem to be impressed.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

marcos said:


> Mike i wonder how sturdy and well built they will be. Trucks work harder than cars and not sure they will be up to the test, well at least the first generation. Hope that they work out for you .


Elon put something into space and safely brought it back down to earth but you think his truck won't be up to the rigours of construction?


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

mike_oxbig said:


> Accurate


thats my buddy Kyle


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


> Does Tesla have any specs on what to expect from it? I'm wondering what your expectations are when they start production. I'd imagine you have something in mind for the preorder of the model, with the option that you've mentioned to opt out if it doesn't look like it'll work out for your expectations.


I saw this yesterday but you may have already come across it in the other thread

Cybertruck’s vital stats:


There will be 3 types of models: single-motor RWD, dual-motor AWD, and tri-motor AWD


A 6.5-foot long bed


Payload: 3,500 lbs


Towing capacity: up to 14,000 lbs
On-road performance was quite impressive, at least for the tri-motor AWD version:


0-60 seconds - 2.9 seconds


1/4 mile 10.8.s
Tesla estimates the following ranges per full charge for each of the three models:


250 mi (single-motor RWD)


300 mi (dual-motor AWD)


500 mi (tri-motor AWD)


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

vadsy said:


> thats my buddy Kyle


I hope more people get this.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> Elon put something into space and safely brought it back down to earth but you think his truck won't be up to the rigours of construction?






I hope the truck is better.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> The busted windows was a big mistake. Why didn't they try this before doing it in front of the world?


the busted windows were planned, don't fall for the marketing


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> Well, from what I understand from the net, these things aren't in production yet so all the info out there is from what could be called experimental models and everything will probably change some before Mike gets his truck so I guess there is some bias, confirmed or not. If the truck had been on the streets for a couple of years then things would be different.


Don't get me wrong. Even though I'm not a car guy I kind of understand how the marketplace works. There are always early adopters of new tech and then there are those that'll wait for a year or 2. I prefer to wait as well, but we'll never know if the people doing it first don't actually do it. I like some of the possible positive impacts that this market might contain for the future of both me and my wife, as well as the longer term future of my 20 year old daughter. If she picks me up in 25 years to go for lunch in her new electric gyrocopter car that can get to New York in a half hour from here I can thank Mike here for adopting it before others. I know it seems a bit far fetched at this point, but so were a number of things in the past that are part of normal everyday living now.


----------



## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Budda said:


> Elon put something into space and safely brought it back down to earth but you think his truck won't be up to the rigours of construction?


Not saying it wont be but this is his first generation of trucks and its got to be right. It has to handle a lot of abuse for several years. Most trucks work hard and are expected to be reliable in all kinds of weather. We will see how it goes and we can have another conversation about this in 5 years.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

marcos said:


> Not saying it wont be but this is his first generation of trucks and its got to be right. It has to handle a lot of abuse for several years. Most trucks work hard and are expected to be reliable in all kinds of weather. We will see how it goes and we can have another conversation about this in 5 years.


space rockets barely see any abuse, work hard or operate in any sort of odd weather conditions.


----------



## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Dorian2 said:


> Don't get me wrong. Even though I'm not a car guy I kind of understand how the marketplace works. There are always early adopters of new tech and then there are those that'll wait for a year or 2. I prefer to wait as well, but we'll never know if the people doing it first don't actually do it. I like some of the possible positive impacts that this market might contain for the future of both me and my wife, as well as the longer term future of my 20 year old daughter. If she picks me up in 25 years to go for lunch in her new electric gyrocopter car that can get to New York in a half hour from here I can thank Mike here for adopting it before others. I know it seems a bit far fetched at this point, but so were a number of things in the past that are part of normal everyday living now.



Having worked in the auto industry as a tech for 20 years and seen first hand how thinks work, i can tell you that most companys dont always get it right the first year. Thats a fact. As Dorian says, i would wait until the bugs get ironed out and then pull the trigger if thats what you want.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Yearly recalls from every major manufacturer anyways I don’t think anyone’s really ironed out the wrinkles to be honest


----------



## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

Let's suppose a long trip on the highway. 500 miles is good distance for any vehicle, but how long would it take to charge?


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

dtsaudio said:


> Let's suppose a long trip on the highway. 500 miles is good distance for any vehicle, but how long would it take to charge?


depends on what youre plugging it into. I've seen from 15 amps to 60 amps 120/240volts advertised. The charger is in the vehicle, you basically provide an extension cord from your panel to the vehicle. I'd like to hear how @Accept2 does it, he's had one for years


----------



## brucew (Dec 30, 2017)

I'm in the camp of when something new comes out, wait a couple yrs and see how they work out. (No beta player here) I remember when smart cars came out in AB, summer they were all the rage. 6" of snow they were all on the used car lots.
Price really doesn't look unreasonable though; that being said, I'd suggest research the battery service life from external sources and be rid of it long before then; or else truck it to Calgary and trade it on a spiffy smart car.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Elon would get a lot more done if he didn't spend so much time bullshitting on the Rocket Scientist's Forum.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

I wonder if/how the full auto drive works with a trailer


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> And more don't. Can't see living in Maple ridge and taking transit to say Langley or Haney even. Poco maybe but that's iffy. Especially if you're hauling your tools. I see some drywallers and nail pounders and tin bashers on the transit around here but you go by any job site and there's a lot of trucks and trailers. Especially when there is no near transit. Not a lot take cabs or uber either. I imagine it's the same on the coast. Walk a block or 3 maybe but that's about it


You’re partially right in some respects but the problems that electric vehicles are working to solve have nothing to do with transit.
As to how many tradespeople use transit versus driving, it depends on the project size and location. If it’s near a Skytrain station and a significant enough project, the majority of people will be taking transit. Tools are left on site locked up.
I recognize many trades work on smaller projects, may be owner-operators, no access to transit, etc and so drive daily to the sites, no way to tell how many are in either group.
Just so you know too, Haney is part of Maple Ridge, always has been and easily accessed by bus. Poco is also an easy bus ride away.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

LanceT said:


> You’re partially right in some respects but the problems that electric vehicles are working to solve have nothing to do with transit.
> As to how many tradespeople use transit versus driving, it depends on the project size and location. If it’s near a Skytrain station and a significant enough project, the majority of people will be taking transit. Tools are left on site locked up.
> I recognize many trades work on smaller projects, may be owner-operators, no access to transit, etc and so drive daily to the sites, no way to tell how many are in either group.
> Just so you know too, Haney is part of Maple Ridge, always has been and easily accessed by bus. Poco is also an easy bus ride away.


When I used to ride to Haney and places like that there was not a lot of transit and what there was was slow and not easy access. There weren't that many buses and no Skytrain. To cross the river at Albion you took a ferry. There's a lot of jobs down there that aren't anywhere near transit same as here.


----------



## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

vadsy said:


> depends on what youre plugging it into. I've seen from 15 amps to 60 amps 120/240volts advertised. The charger is in the vehicle, you basically provide an extension cord from your panel to the vehicle. I'd like to hear how @Accept2 does it, he's had one for years


I just use 110V, as it sits overnight in the garage. The cybertruck will need more but by the time it comes out there will most likely be DC fast chargers available that will charge it in about 5 minutes. Of course it wont run for 72 days straight while yer stuck in Nam with your buddies fighting for your life in 600 feet deep water as you run your power saw. Of course the best part of spacetime is it goes only one way for us. So by the time it comes out, most of the naysayers will have been dropped off so the threads on electric cars can discuss more intelligent things, like how many hoes you can fit in the back.........
The evolution of the tech is rapidly growing, mine is a 2014 vehicle but in comparison to the cybertruck its like comparing a Sinclair 1000 to a 486 DX4 100. Once they release the solid state batteries to the public, it will revolutionize the entire car world, and charge times will be irrelevant..........


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I put my preorder in for a half dozen of his silent leaf blowers. For all my neighbors. 

I've also put in a preorder for a KPA editor - they're free so what the hell. Preorders are easy. Delivery is nebulous at best.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

If you’re in nam fighting in 600 feet water I’d say ya pulled your parachute a bit early


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

mike_oxbig said:


> Mostly just to start an internet argument.
> My ‘Berta friends are not happy with me.
> Please no rock throwing.


I think it's cool and there's nothing else like it. If you go through with it, be prepared to get swarmed every time you stop.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

1SweetRide said:


> I think it's cool and there's nothing else like it. If you go through with it, be prepared to get swarmed every time you stop.


I'd be pretty stoked to see one of those rolling by!


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

1SweetRide said:


> I think it's cool and there's nothing else like it. If you go through with it, be prepared to get swarmed every time you stop.


I’ve been training for that by stopping in crosswalks


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

It will be interesting to see what it looks like by the time it hits Canadian streets - wipers, bumpers, mirrors, 3rd brake light, etc.

Cameras or not I would hate the side/rear visibility of this thing.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Yea, I know, the Ford is crap which probably why it lost but check out the Tesla do a thing











http://imgur.com/height%3D384%3Bid%3DnPuVdtc%3Btype%3Dgifv%3Bwidth%3D640


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

the tesla is bigger than i thought it was


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Wardo said:


> the tesla is bigger than i thought it was


yea, that was my first thought as well


----------



## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

vadsy said:


> Yea, I know, the Ford is crap which probably why it lost but check out the Tesla do a thing


the tug of war? (your linky no worky) You can't beat an electric motor when it comes to pulling. Maximum rated torque at zero RPM. An engine can't compete with that, pulling or drag racing.

The tug of war is all about weight. The Tesla truck obviously weighs more and is probably 4wd, while the Ford they used was only 2wd.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeah I noticed the 2wd as well. Tesla probably has fatter tires too so more contact patch plus torque and weight as mentioned. Ford has no weight in the back either and we all know how that works for traction in a pickup.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Hopefully they’re keeping it 2wd vs 2wd. Totally agree on the rest. Link is trash, my bad. They need to run the Tesla against a dually Ram diesel, then I’ll be impressed. Maybe


----------



## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Diesel electric trains.........Diesel generators serve up electricity to the electric motor to actually move the train. Its the only way to keep the diesel around and not get too much butt hurt........


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Lincoln said:


> the tug of war? (your linky no worky) You can't beat an electric motor when it comes to pulling. Maximum rated torque at zero RPM. An engine can't compete with that, pulling or drag racing.
> 
> The tug of war is all about weight. The Tesla truck obviously weighs more and is probably 4wd, while the Ford they used was only 2wd.


While I would hope they used apples to apples for that video or as close to (2wd vs 2wd) who knows. I doubt the Ford was 4x4 because there wasn’t 8 decals declaring so.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

vadsy said:


> Hopefully they’re keeping it 2wd vs 2wd. Totally agree on the rest. Link is trash, my bad. They need to run the Tesla against a dually Ram diesel, then I’ll be impressed. Maybe


I might do that in 3 years. Depends how much YouTube views are worth when the time comes


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

They’re developing a solar charge for it that will add 15 miles of range a day trickle charge or something to that effect


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

vadsy said:


> Yea, I know, the Ford is crap which probably why it lost but check out the Tesla do a thing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That F-150 pushed that Tesla no problem.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Wardo said:


> Yeah I noticed the 2wd as well. Tesla probably has fatter tires too so more contact patch plus torque and weight as mentioned. Ford has no weight in the back either and we all know how that works for traction in a pickup.


Another advantage of electric vehicles is the ability to position the weight where you want it. Trucks with engines, most of the weight is going to be wherever they mount the engine (in front of the firewall in nearly all cases). Electric motors are lighter and there can be multiple motors, one at each hub even. The batteries required are a lot heavier than a fuel tank, but the batteries can be mounted in a variety of places. As you say, this could lead to a much better weight balanced pickup, with better traction. Add that instant torque characteristic and they could make a hellofa off-roader with this tech too.

It used to be fun driving a 2WD pickup on the prairies in winter. It would hone your winter driving chops to a fine edge, with lots of torque and next to no weight over the driving axle. Lots of throttle-induced oversteer, and more than one excursion into the ditch.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeah, rear wheel drive pickup has pretty much been my daily for 40 years now and I like driving in snow. Never owned a 4x4 but I drove one in a snow storm once and it was a lot of fun although I could have handled that weather in a 2 wheel drive.


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Let's throw some ammo in the fire.

Harley-Davidson fans kick tires of new all-electric motorcycle | CBC News


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

LanceT said:


> Let's throw some ammo in the fire.
> 
> Harley-Davidson fans kick tires of new all-electric motorcycle | CBC News




IME, Harley guys are the least likely group of people to adopt anything new/technical. Maybe they are realizing they have to expand on that market. And a torquey electric might actually agree with some traditionalists, if they can look past the lack of loud pipes.

I don't know if I'd want to deal with the numerous battery acid leaks on my driveway.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

LanceT said:


> Let's throw some ammo in the fire.
> 
> Harley-Davidson fans kick tires of new all-electric motorcycle | CBC News


For a city motorcycle it could be ok.....maybe. I wonder how long it would last if you took it across the river on the trans-can and pinned it. Or for that matter, because it's supposed to be "nimble" did the Sea to Sky? 0 to 60 mp/h in 3 secs. and a top speed of around 100 mph, limited. 70 mile range at 70 mph.....that might get you to Pemberton or Chiliwack but that would probably be pushing it. Then with fast charge tech you'd be sitting for almost an hr before you could go again especially if you have it in the mode where you can spin the rear tire and go real fast. Not too sure how it would do past Hope unless you took the Canyon. Ball park 650 lbs with a 250 lb battery.....no changing that one fast if you have to. 
2020 Harley-Davidson LiveWire Review: 23 Fast Facts
$37,000 if you can find one. For that price I'll buy a noisey older Harley and set it up for me and spend the rest of the money.....around $25,000 or so traveling around Canada. 
BTW a quick check shows Trev Deeley doesn't have one and neither does Barnes in Vic. so no one I know can take one for a test ride.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)




----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

I wonder how relevant basic comforts are to the battery life

800km or 500km with heat and radio?


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

mike_oxbig said:


> I wonder how relevant basic comforts are to the battery life
> 
> 800km or 500km with heat and radio?


yea, agreed. A purely resistive load on a battery can't be good for milage. I saw a heat gun at Home Depot that was battery powered, convenient for sure but for how long?


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Has to be an issue. I’m sure they’ll find a way around it. I think I’d be more concerned with ac


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

LanceT said:


> That F-150 pushed that Tesla no problem.


Ford is OK, but once I saw a GMC pushing a Ford into town with a CHAIN!!


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

mike_oxbig said:


> They’re developing a solar charge for it that will add 15 miles of range a day trickle charge or something to that effect


I'm gonna get the flat black. I can pretend I am flying a Stealth bomber!


----------



## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

KapnKrunch said:


> I'm gonna get the flat black. I can pretend I am flying a Stealth bomber!


Tesla trucks can fly?!?!


----------



## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

I'm ordering mine with two flux capacitors!

You never know when you'll need a backup.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

KapnKrunch said:


> I'm gonna get the flat black. I can pretend I am flying a Stealth bomber!


Based on what I've read it's gonna be awful heavy given the stainless steel construction and a couple thousand kilos of batteries. Maybe get the Stealth submarine instead


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

For it to be rated to tow that much (tri motor specs) it would need to weigh a lot. Anything can get a heavy trailer rolling, stopping is another matter. I’ve pulled a 7 tonne dump trailer with a half tonne. It’s terrifying. With the 3500 you hardly notice


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

mike_oxbig said:


> For it to be rated to tow that much (tri motor specs) it would need to weigh a lot. Anything can get a heavy trailer rolling, stopping is another matter. I’ve pulled a 7 tonne dump trailer with a half tonne. It’s terrifying. With the 3500 you hardly notice


Elon Musk accepts Ford challenge to apples-to-apples Cybertruck, F-150 tug-of-war


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

You know, I’ve always called myself a Chevy guy. I don’t know why. But who is Chevy? Who is Ford? What other huge company puts a face on their products? The more I read about him the more I like the guy. Just hope a few crashed rockets don’t impact production quality


----------



## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)




----------



## pat6969 (Feb 4, 2013)

I just bought a new truck as well!!! Whoooot!! Needed something to pull my new 23’ surf boat!!


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

pat6969 said:


> I just bought a new truck as well!!! Whoooot!! Needed something to pull my new 23’ surf boat!!


Nice.

A friend of mine got one of those to haul the race car and all the crap that goes in the trailer.


----------



## pat6969 (Feb 4, 2013)

Wardo said:


> Nice.
> 
> A friend of mine got one of those to haul the race car and all the crap that goes in the trailer.


I’m thinking of removing the DEF filter system so I can roll coal when I take my boat to BC next summer!!


----------



## pat6969 (Feb 4, 2013)

Don’t think an electric cartruck could pull my boat through the mountains.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

pat6969 said:


> Don’t think an electric cartruck could pull my boat through the mountains.


As far as capability I think it would make it just fine, the big issue being range. That’s not quite fair. Our diesels wouldn’t make it by those standards either if we didn’t have refill stations as a hub of every place worth stopping. Of course that takes too long with electric so it’s a local vehicle only. But technology will adapt


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeah, if it works local vehicle then that’s that. Range, temperature and accessory draw is an issue and it’ll be awhile before there’s a charging station every where there’s a gas station and batteries that can charge as fast as you can fill a tank. But if it does the job for a specific application then fine; if you think you want to go anywhere you want any time you feel like it then electric ain’t gonna do that.


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

mike_oxbig said:


> For it to be rated to tow that much (tri motor specs) it would need to weigh a lot. Anything can get a heavy trailer rolling, stopping is another matter. I’ve pulled a 7 tonne dump trailer with a half tonne. It’s terrifying. With the 3500 you hardly notice


No kidding. I used to haul some serious weight with a half ton. Got the fines framed to prove it 

The Tesla truck isn't what I'm hoped it would be, but it might just get the ball rolling. I'm typically against most of the whole EPA "fuck the cars" thing, but I'm excited for electric pickup trucks. 

I've bounced a few design ideas around in my engineering student days. My ideal "truck of the near future" would be a plug-in hybrid diesel-over-electric HD pickup. 4 wheel direct drive. A true workhorse.


----------



## pat6969 (Feb 4, 2013)

mike_oxbig said:


> As far as capability I think it would make it just fine, the big issue being range. That’s not quite fair. Our diesels wouldn’t make it by those standards either if we didn’t have refill stations as a hub of every place worth stopping. Of course that takes too long with electric so it’s a local vehicle only. But technology will adapt


I don’t follow the whole electric thing. How far do these things go on one charge? This diesel will go roughly 1000km on a 136l tank, not hauling of course.


----------



## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

cboutilier said:


> I've bounced a few design ideas around in my engineering student days. My ideal "truck of the near future" would be a plug-in hybrid diesel-over-electric HD pickup. 4 wheel direct drive. A true workhorse.


This is all my friends and I have talked about for years.

Why know one is making a diesel/electric hybrid 4x4 truck with direct drive is beyond us.

Seems like it should be a no brainer.


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

reckless toboggan said:


> This is all my friends and I have talked about for years.
> 
> Why know one is making a diesel/electric hybrid 4x4 truck with direct drive is beyond us.
> 
> Seems like it should be a no brainer.


Like a train, but a truck.


----------



## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

cboutilier said:


> Like a train, but a truck.


We've used that exact analogy in our conversations!


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

pat6969 said:


> I’m thinking of removing the DEF filter system so I can roll coal when I take my boat to BC next summer!!


Yeah, that’s a good idea.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

pat6969 said:


> I don’t follow the whole electric thing. How far do these things go on one charge? This diesel will go roughly 1000km on a 136l tank, not hauling of course.


Well they say 800km under the same conditions, so I perceive the value of every charge to be about 130$ in fuel replacement. My Cummins 6.7 diesel goes about 500km hauling a trailer on a tank. I feel like mines only 120L or so


----------



## pat6969 (Feb 4, 2013)

mike_oxbig said:


> Well they say 800km under the same conditions, so I perceive the value of every charge to be about 130$ in fuel replacement. My Cummins 6.7 diesel goes about 500km hauling a trailer on a tank. I feel like mines only 120L or so


That's pretty darn good. Charging time must be a bit I'd imagine.


----------



## pat6969 (Feb 4, 2013)

LanceT said:


> Yeah, that’s a good idea.


I go to Kelowna every summer (used to live there) so I wouldn't do that, maybe if I was going to the lower mainland.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

cboutilier said:


> I've bounced a few design ideas around in my engineering student days. My ideal "truck of the near future" would be a plug-in hybrid diesel-over-electric HD pickup. 4 wheel direct drive. A true workhorse.


The short-lived Chrysler turbine car boasted that it would run on any liquid that would burn. My engineering fantasy has always been turbine generator and electric motor on each wheel.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

pat6969 said:


> I go to Kelowna every summer (used to live there) so I wouldn't do that, maybe if I was going to the lower mainland.


Do it in the lower mainland then play the video in reverse, people will think you’re cleaning up the fraser


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

pat6969 said:


> I just bought a new truck as well!!! Whoooot!! Needed something to pull my new 23’ surf boat!!


Treat her right and she won't turn to the easy money.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)




----------



## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

The first one has arrived in Alberta...


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> Treat her right and she won't turn to the easy money.
> 
> View attachment 282006


Is this the best truck meme?


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 282016


To be fair, backing up with a trailer is really hard.


----------



## pat6969 (Feb 4, 2013)

Sneaky said:


> To be fair, backing up with a trailer is really hard.


Took me a while to master backing up my fifth wheel. That was challenging when I first got it!


----------



## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

pat6969 said:


> Took me a while to master backing up my fifth wheel. That was challenging when I first got it!


I still have trouble backing up a trailer. Watched a guy back up a tandem a couple of years ago. I was in awe.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Doug Gifford said:


> I still have trouble backing up a trailer. Watched a guy back up a tandem a couple of years ago. I was in awe.


Tandems are difficult unless you're a pro. Backing up a trailer with a short tongue can be difficult too and requires more practice. One with a long tongue is quire easy as it does not jackknife so easily.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Sneaky said:


> To be fair, backing up with a trailer is really hard.


I don't think backing up is so much the problem as going forward ................. and the correct time for doing which one.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2303062149992291


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

laristotle said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2303062149992291


How are you supposed to dangle your arm over that steering wheel and wave at the neighbours? It will never sell in Saskatchewan and North Dakota.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

KapnKrunch said:


> How are you supposed to dangle your arm over that steering wheel and wave at the neighbours? It will never sell in Saskatchewan and North Dakota.


they may not be aiming for that market demographic. you guys are gonna get the redesigned Excursion, probably with more diesel, and a fleet of white 15 passengers vans delivered to the middle of town


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

vadsy said:


> fleet of white 15 passengers vans delivered to the middle of town


for the hockey moms


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

laristotle said:


> for the hockey moms


for the farm families,. hockey moms get the Excursions


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

vadsy said:


> hockey moms get the Excursions


it's Shirley's turn to take the team to 5 am practice. passenger van.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

laristotle said:


> it's Shirley's turn to take the team to 5 am practice. passenger van.


well, if youre talking organized carpool hockey moms,. I agree with you. 15 pass. van


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

The Hutterites like their vans. They never wave back though.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

If 5 friends bought the same truck could we just take turns towing the lot and make it 4000km combined

Dumb thought of the moment. Might try it


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

After looking at that steering wheel I’m thinking this thread needs to be moved to the political forum.


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Steadfastly said:


> Tandems are difficult unless you're a pro. Backing up a trailer with a short tongue can be difficult too and requires more practice. One with a long tongue is quire easy as it does not jackknife so easily.


Twin trailers is a pain in the ass, even as a pro. I used to back the same B train, out of the same driveway every week, and it never really gets easier.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I think it's really cool but I'm not too fond of the moniker "Cyber Truck" to be honest. I'm petty that way.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Could be Russia, could be Ottawa


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Wonder which we're going to see first. The Cybertruck, or Mars One.


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

jb welder said:


> Wonder which we're going to see first. The Cybertruck, or Mars One.


Should be one and the same by the time everything is sorted. At least that’s what I’m hoping for.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

the cybertruck design is kinda dated like something out of a godzilla movie from the 1960s


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

I'm holding out for this version:


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)




----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Anyone got a large piece of cardboard I can borrow


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

http://imgur.com/height%3D728%3Bid%3DSeT39u3%3Btype%3Dgifv%3Bwidth%3D728


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

laristotle said:


> http://imgur.com/height%3D728%3Bid%3DSeT39u3%3Btype%3Dgifv%3Bwidth%3D728


When did Rondo go into the car business?


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Just as good as the real thing? lol


----------



## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

You realise the pre ordering is basicly an interest free loan?

Like the model x you could be waiting many years. 

Sent from my H3223 using Tapatalk


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

TheYanChamp said:


> You realise the pre ordering is basicly an interest free loan?
> 
> Like the model x you could be waiting many years.
> 
> Sent from my H3223 using Tapatalk


Last I heard Tesla had more than 250,000 ordered.....thats's $25,000,000 to the good for them gaining a lot of interest.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

TheYanChamp said:


> Like the model x you could be waiting many years.


I hope so, gotta kill a current truck first to clear up some parking


----------



## SG-Rocker (Dec 30, 2007)

Sneaky said:


> The first one has arrived in Alberta...


Rockwell axles.... nice

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Never fear, F150 lovers










Truckin' fast: Shelby Super Snake F-150 will make 770 horsepower
 _And at least a few of these hot rod haulers will come to Canadian dealers, too! _

_There will be two versions, starting with a 395-horsepower naturally-aspirated V8. The one we want is the supercharged V8 that churns out 770 horses, of course, and Shelby says that makes it the “fastest street-legal, limited-edition truck available through Ford dealer showrooms.” And it comes with a warranty._


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Too bad about that front end, at least from that pic.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

that thing looks worse than the Tesla


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Wonder if those 770 ponies will be able to keep up with the tri-motor?
0-60 in 3.45 seconds, I guess not.
What does the F150 'lectric look like?


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

If it was AWD it might do 4.5? Hooking up will be the problem.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jb welder said:


> Wonder if those 770 ponies will be able to keep up with the tri-motor?
> 0-60 in 3.45 seconds, I guess not.
> What does the F150 'lectric look like?


If and when the tri motor hits the road as something other than a maybe then we'll see. And let's take those trucks on say a hundred mile jaunt.....either on a highway or a track.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> If and when the tri motor hits the road as something other than a maybe then we'll see. And let's take those trucks on say a hundred mile jaunt.....either on a highway or a track.


one of them is gonna run out of fuel...,


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

What’s the point of that much horsepower in a grocery truck though. Still has a base tow and haul limit based on the trucks weight. It’s still a half ton.

Bet it sounds cool though


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mike_oxbig said:


> What’s the point of that much horsepower in a grocery truck though. Still has a base tow and haul limit based on the trucks weight. It’s still a half ton.
> 
> Bet it sounds cool though


Why not have that much power? You're sitting at the light and some smart assed kid is gunning you and you smoke him. As far as tow and haul limit goes, never worried about that. Either it tows something or it doesn't. Look at that electric ford pulling a train. This would make a great grocery hauler too....and be good for dropping the kids off at school.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Budda said:


> Too bad about that front end, at least from that pic.


Yeah - not quite as stylish as the Tesla


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> Yeah - not quite as stylish as the Tesla


needs more grills and snakes


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

laristotle said:


> _.......and *Shelby says *that makes it the “fastest street-legal, limited-edition truck available through Ford dealer showrooms.” And it comes with a warranty._


I assume that's Shelby American (the corp) and not Carroll (the icon)? Unless Ford is into seances and ouiji and stuff --- which I think H1 probably was, but not sure about his offspring.

I think these (Ford isn't the only one building something like this) are silly. All the room of a 2-seater sports car, and half the handling. I guess you can carry a 412 or two, so there's that. My drummer carries his kit in an S2000 (it's a special kit made to pack together) so anything's possible. Unless you own a SmartCar, then basically nothing is (I saw two people at Costco who had to break down one of those huge toilet paper packages to get it into the car, one roll at a time LOL).


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

If your Tesla gets stolen, is it now an Edison?


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> If your Tesla gets stolen, is it now an Edison?


Easy to find just by staking out the nearest charging station


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> If and when the tri motor hits the road as something other than a maybe then we'll see. And let's take those trucks on say a hundred mile jaunt.....either on a highway or a track.


If you're taking a truck on a hundred mile jaunt, congratulations. You're one of the .1% ers. 
Four door truck so we can put the groceries in the back. Hey, what's all this empty wasted space under the cover back there? Why do they do it like that?


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Either it tows something or it doesn't. Look at that electric ford pulling a train.


towing is one thing ... stopping is another 
and most "people of the city" don't understand the second concept.

as for the 4x4 in the city , ya just get twice as far stuck as you would with a 2 wheel drive .
or you feel like a schmuck with your 4x4 , super snow grip, studded tires , 8v power and you're stuck in traffic behind the simpleton in the civic with baldinis for tires .


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> towing is one thing ... stopping is another
> and most "people of the city" don't understand the second concept.
> 
> as for the 4x4 in the city , ya just get twice as far stuck as you would with a 2 wheel drive .
> or you feel like a schmuck with your 4x4 , super snow grip, studded tires , 8v power and you're stuck in traffic behind the simpleton in the civic with baldinis for tires .


Never had any problem stopping the F100 loaded with wood and pulling a trailer loaded with wood. That would be between 4 and 5 full cords of wood. It just wasn't super fast. As far as the Civic goes, you just push him out of the way. The last 4x4 I had here I put into 4wd once a year to make sure it works. It never left paved roads. My son's 4x4 is in 4wd about half the time he's driving it. He also carries chains just in case. 


jb welder said:


> If you're taking a truck on a hundred mile jaunt, congratulations. You're one of the .1% ers.
> Four door truck so we can put the groceries in the back. Hey, what's all this empty wasted space under the cover back there? Why do they do it like that?


I've never been in the 1% truck bracket.....just the motorcycle one. You guys back east got to remember a lot of us out west actually drive and have things we actually carry in the full sized box with no cover.....it's just a 2dr.. 100 mile jaunt is nothing.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

some of us fools in the east actually used to drive 100+ miles round trip to work each day . plus the 60-150 miles for work each day on average .
a small price to pay for peace and quite and fresh air. 

weekend 400 km dashes ( one way) to hog town for the annual salmon fishing contest, (dragging a 20' fishing boat behind the truck... gotta find a trailer one day)
trips to mosport and shannonville for bike races 
scuba in the st lawernce
fishing trout in northern que.
all well over the 100 miles one way 

and the further you got from the city , the better the view.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I bought Maggs a new Dyson V7 vacuum. Says on the box it's good for 30 minutes on a charge. We're getting about 7. "Ideal conditions" it says in the instructions. Not being an owner, or having driven, an electric car I wonder if we are looking at comparable differences between "ideal" and "actual"?


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> You guys back east got to remember a lot of us out west actually drive and have things we actually carry in the full sized box with no cover


No not a lot of you, mostly empty boxes like everywhere else. Some of you though. I'm from there and visit fairly regularly.
Although pretty much everyone is east of BC, I'm not 'back east', I'm in prairie farm country, where everybody drives a truck. And 99.9% of them are empty in the back and the owners are terrified of anybody scratching them anyway.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

allthumbs56 said:


> an electric car I wonder if we are looking at comparable differences between "ideal" and "actual"


fine print
"your mileage may vary"


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> some of us fools in the east actually used to drive 100+ miles round trip to work each day . plus the 60-150 miles for work each day on average .
> a small price to pay for peace and quite and fresh air.
> 
> weekend 400 km dashes ( one way) to hog town for the annual salmon fishing contest, (dragging a 20' fishing boat behind the truck... gotta find a trailer one day)
> ...


Do you still do any of that? Maybe it's just Melonville where they don't.


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

jb welder said:


> No not a lot of you, mostly empty boxes like everywhere else. Some of you though. I'm from there and visit fairly regularly.
> Although pretty much everyone is east of BC, I'm not 'back east', I'm in prairie farm country, where everybody drives a truck. And 99.9% of them are empty in the back and the owners are terrified of anybody scratching them anyway.


There are plenty of trucks here and I’d say from a driver’s seat poll, most are working trucks.
It is nice too, to have all that space and room available for when you need or want it. My truck is empty much of the time with just me in it but I’m really happy when I don’t need to wish for a friend with a truck to help out with some landscaping duties.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jb welder said:


> No not a lot of you, mostly empty boxes like everywhere else. Some of you though. I'm from there and visit fairly regularly.
> Although pretty much everyone is east of BC, I'm not 'back east', I'm in prairie farm country, where everybody drives a truck. And 99.9% of them are empty in the back and the owners are terrified of anybody scratching them anyway.


I'm stuck in Calgary right now but I saw a lot of trucks on the road before I got stuck here with all sorts of things in the back....including Harleys. I can remember riding my bike to Saskatoon and following a truck with a bale of hay in the back....a damned big one. Lots of cows and horses and quads in the back of trucks too. But, I hear what you're saying about some being afraid of scratching their paint. I remember when I had my Nissan Patrol going to do the Canada Trail out of Hope and seeing guys afraid of getting their Jeeps dirty.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Do you still do any of that?


SCUBA last year 
fishing all of Que over the summer with the 14', son wants me to do ice fishing ... he's 150 km away in que right now.
bike races when there isn't " family" stuff planned for that weekend .

ottawa area has a lot of "no mud trucks , please" ... $120K of bling , traded in each year for fresh chrome.
all set and raring to go in winter ( with summer tires , cause the snows are so loud and ruin the ride )


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)




----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> SCUBA last year
> fishing all of Que over the summer with the 14', son wants me to do ice fishing ... he's 150 km away in que right now.
> bike races when there isn't " family" stuff planned for that weekend .
> 
> ...


The trucks are no worse I guess than having a summer, sunshine car and a winter car.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

cept that trucks are twice the price of most cars , twice the price to fix and break twice as much .

but they do have their upsides ... easier to get in and out of compared to small cars 
better view of the road (except for those silly pedestrians in the blind spots) 
bigger / higher metal bumpers 
my 92 year old neighbour won't drive anything else.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

This is 3500lbs or so of shingles and underpayment. On a 3500 the suspension is so stiff that it drives fairly okay. The truck brakes at about 50% normal in this setup and can take moderate cornering.










This is about 2500lbs in a half tonne. If I drove it through stop and go conditions, I.e. rush hour, it probably would have no brakes left. Hard cornering could twist the frame. Bumps bottom out the already stressed suspension. “But she goes so send ‘er” right.

It’s worth mentioning that putting the weight in a trailer with brakes makes the load much easier on both vehicles...manageable with the 1500 and not even noticeable with the 3500

If you’ve gotta get some heavy duty stuff done once in a blue moon, the hell with it you’ll get by with a small truck. But I know guys that do this daily and eventually they’ll be announced on the drive at 5 as the broken down Dbag holding everyone up.

PS - I promise I’ll do this to the Tesla too. For science.


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

oldjoat said:


> cept that trucks are twice the price of most cars , twice the price to fix and break twice as much .


That’s hilarious info.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

not for the owners .... ask any shop to work on a truck or van and the labour charge doubles ... so does the cost of parts .


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Wut


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

oldjoat said:


> not for the owners .... ask any shop to work on a truck or van and the labour charge doubles ... so does the cost of parts .


?


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

LanceT said:


> ?


Must be an Ontario thing.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)




----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

The back of my truck is never empty. There’s all kinds of crap back there including an electric barbecue, three snow tires on steelies for winter weight, some coleman fuel for what I don’t know, a three ton jack, booster cables and lots of other shit that I’ve forgotten about.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> The back of my truck is never empty. There’s all kinds of crap back there including an electric barbecue, three snow tires on steelies for winter weight, some coleman fuel for what I don’t know, a three ton jack, booster cables and lots of other shit that I’ve forgotten about.


From what they say about the snow fall heading your way you might have to pour some of the Coleman fuel on a tire to get it burning.


----------



## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

allthumbs56 said:


> Cameras or not I would hate the side/rear visibility of this thing.


Late to the thread and no time to read it all, but here is what the future of visibility looks like, and it’s not even a Tesla. Image doesn’t show it, but cars appear in the blind spots in that display as well (although the UI can definitely still be improved).










Update: Here is a video (car is effectively in self-drive mode, but requires hands on wheel and has IR cameras watching your eyes):


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

A bit OT, but considering the above "extra", I strongly believe that drivers should be learning how to manage something as simple as a blind spot themselves. My kid just got her license and that particular subject got heavy emphasis on many occasions when I was learnin her.

But it's a cool feature I suppose.

Carry on my Wayward sons....


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

I can just see it now 

"failed my driving test ... I had to use the second family car and it couldn't park or drive itself"


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> I can just see it now
> 
> "failed my driving test ... I had to use the second family car and it couldn't park or drive itself"


shoulda been listening to the Eagles instead of Kansas


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Man allegedly dresses up as mother, tries to take driving test for her


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

vadsy said:


> shoulda been listening to the Eagles instead of Kansas


 shoulda been listening to john denver , glen campbell ( for the old lady)


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


> My kid just got her license and that particular subject got heavy emphasis on many occasions when I was learnin her.


I learned with my first wife not to give driving lessons to family members. That doesn't include letting the oldest granddaughter drive the car when she was 12. I got in the passenger seat and gave her the keys. She did about 15 blocks or so.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

my dad tried to give lessons to my older sister ... 1/2 hour later and 400.00 ( 1968 dollars) in damage to his car , he gave up and called a driving school .
she wrote off 2 of their cars and multiple tires and rims ( funny how curbs/ poles do that )

the driving instructor told my father never to let her get a license ... 
6 attempts and road tests later , she barely passed.
2 days later she wrote off my mother's car.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Well I must've done something right. She got her license first try and nailed parallel parking first try. lol


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

could be ...
but then my sister is about as smart as a bag of rocks and the reflexes of a sloth ( and that's being kind )

but has all the luck 
she could drop a quarter, bend down and find a 20 dollar bill, 
but still complain she lost the quarter.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Driving lessons when I was 10 with my two brothers. Dad took the 32 ford to the middle of a 10 acre field and said, drive it back to the barn.....and walked away. That took about an hr.. Then it was load the 1/2 ton, drive it to the barn and unload it.....took about 2 days for me and my brothers to move 5 tons of alfalfa. My sister took driving lessons from the driving school in grandma's 60 Bug. She was spoiled.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

LexxM3 said:


> Late to the thread and no time to read it all, but here is what the future of visibility looks like, and it’s not even a Tesla. Image doesn’t show it, but cars appear in the blind spots in that display as well (although the UI can definitely still be improved).


This reminds me about an article I read recently, 14 yr. old kid came up with this:
Teen wins US$25,000 award for invention eliminating blind spots for cars


----------



## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

That’s a great idea and entirely achievable, particularly with the amount of cameras and assembly of images from those camera into surround views (I’ll attach an example later) that are being added to cars now anyway. Do that for B pillar as well, that’s my personal biggest blind spot problem with any 4 door and my body vs legs length proportions that cause it.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

great tech . but they still have to look in that direction for it to work ( and few drivers even bother )

the solution today is to "warn " about a vehicle in the blind spot


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> could be ...
> but then my sister is about as smart as a bag of rocks and the reflexes of a sloth ( and that's being kind )
> 
> but has all the luck
> ...


There's a line in there but I'll be nice and let it by.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

don't hesitate ... I don't care ( nor would I be offended ) ... and any line you can come up with would probably fit .


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

I wonder if I can buy 3 of them and hook them together and just keep rotating the front truck a-la-goose. Now we have cross country range.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

sorry, vehicle with 2 trailers ? .... what's your license ?

easier to just tow a diesel generator behind you .( and cheaper )


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Yeah can’t tow double trailers with a G license, fair enough. I could get a double long flatbed trailer though mr excuses


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

still the weight limit factor with the G license ( and would you void the warranty towing a big trailer with one ?)


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Under 7 tonnes trailer weight and a G license is fine with a cvor added to your license, waited in line for nearly an hour to ask that question. I’m bordering on needing a class A license, but i’ll choose the cheap side of the grey area until at which time it’s black and white.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

It says it’s rated for towing around 6 tonnes I believe


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

2 trucks With batteries and the trailer ? might be pushing it .
definitely reduce the driving range quite a bit ... may need 4 trucks .


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mike_oxbig said:


> Under 7 tonnes trailer weight and a G license is fine with a cvor added to your license, waited in line for nearly an hour to ask that question. I’m bordering on needing a class A license, but i’ll choose the cheap side of the grey area until at which time it’s black and white.


What's a G license and an A license?


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> What's a G license and an A license?


G - basic car license.
D - straight truck.
A - tractor trailer.
Z - air brake endorsement.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Electraglide said:


> What's a G license and an A license?


In bc a class 5 is an Ontario G, just a standard license. Weight and vehicle size restrictions probably comparable. Class A is for transports, motor homes, air brakes etc


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

When I moved to Ottawa from bc I had an expired drivers license that I couldn’t renew until I paid ICBC about 3 grand in tickets and points. That was impossible when i was 20. They transferred me to an active G license with no tests or wait time in Ontario, no questions asked. I was like hahaha I guess I live here now.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> G - basic car license.
> D - straight truck.
> A - tractor trailer.
> Z - air brake endorsement.


So Class 5 out here. You can get air endorsements for most of these including class 5. BCs about the same. Most people I know with a class 1 also have a class 6. Years ago I had a BC C class along with my class 5. It was a metal tag that cost a $1 and meant I could drive the 10 ton truck where I worked. Went into the Motor Vehicle Branch, no test just proof of employment. The equivalent to your D I guess or a class 3 here.

*Class 1 :* Professional license to drive any vehicle
*Class 2 :* Professional license for buses
*Class 3 :* Vehicles with 3 axles plus - trucks
*Class 4 :* Professional license for taxi, ambulance, small bus
*Class 5 :* Standard driver’s license for cars, light trucks, motorhomes
*Class 6 :* Motorcycles and mopeds
*Class 7 :* Learner’s license for cars and motorcycles


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Word now is it's in the medium duty (250 etc.) class and gets beat in payload and towing capacity. Elron is going to have to up his game.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mike_oxbig said:


> In bc a class 5 is an Ontario G, just a standard license. Weight and vehicle size restrictions probably comparable. Class A is for transports, motor homes, air brakes etc


So you can't drive a motorhome or converted bus, no air, with a class G? If it's less than 15 passengers you can in Ab and BC.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Electraglide said:


> So you can't drive a motorhome or converted bus, no air, with a class G? If it's less than 15 passengers you can in Ab and BC.


I believe it depends on the length/weight of the vehicle but i only really researched my own circumstances. You can up your license restrictions by applying for a commercial vehicle operators registration which goes with any class license, but it’s a separate yearly fee. I have to safety my vehicles every year. It sucks.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

To drive something like a city bus you need a BZ.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

motor homes are exempt and fall under G ( even the air brake ones )
no politician in ontario wants to upset the retirees with their trips to florida.

they made some noise a few years back but backed off due to the snowbird flack.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

I wonder how well this would fit in the back of the cyber truck. Sort of like a spare tire or a jerry can.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 291164


Friggin thing is going so slow, even the wind (blowing the smoke) is faster.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

They redid the f150 vs cyber truck pull off.

With a half size cyber truck

What a sad day for ford enthusiasts


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Oh Oh.


----------



## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

mike_oxbig said:


> They redid the f150 vs cyber truck pull off.
> 
> With a half size cyber truck
> 
> What a sad day for ford enthusiasts


It looked like a large weight on the back of the cyber truck to stop the wheels from spinning. Did they put weights in the Ford, as well? I know my f150 spins easily if there's no weight in the back.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Yea, but. Will it make from Vernon to the beach on the other side of Vernon on a single charge hauling nothing at all?


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jimsz said:


> It looked like a large weight on the back of the cyber truck to stop the wheels from spinning. Did they put weights in the Ford, as well? I know my f150 spins easily if there's no weight in the back.


From what I understand the cypertruck will be a medium duty and not a light duty like the F-150. 
Tesla Cybertruck Is Medium-Duty: Competition Is Ford F-250, Ram 2500
and it sounds like you might have a bit of a wait depending on what truck you ordered.
Tesla Cybertruck's more powerful versions get production priority - Roadshow
Just think of all the intrest tesla is getting on that 25,000,000. 
Sounds like the semi is on a slow boat too.


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Ontario G - Automobile / combination max 11000 kg. Towed vehicle max 4600 kg. I really doubt you can drive a air brake vehicle of any kind without a Z endorsement.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Distortion said:


> Ontario G - Automobile / combination max 11000 kg. Towed vehicle max 4600 kg. I really doubt you can drive a air brake vehicle of any kind without a Z endorsement.


In Ontario. In BC if you have an RV with air brakes you're supposed to take an air brake knowledge test and do a pre trip test.....then pay the man. All you need for a license is a class 5.


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

e glide. You can drive a RV with a G or any other car or light truck under the max weight requirement. Need a Z for air brakes.


----------



## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

vadsy said:


> Yea, but. Will it make from Vernon to the beach on the other side of Vernon on a single charge hauling nothing at all?


And, if you happened to drive it off the beach into the water, would everyone swimming get electrocuted?


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

jimsz said:


> And, if you happened to drive it off the beach into the water, would everyone swimming get electrocuted?


this is why it’s doomed to fail


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Distortion said:


> e glide. You can drive a RV with a G or any other car or light truck under the max weight requirement. Need a Z for air brakes.


So a G is about the same as a class 5 I guess except there is no weight or axle restriction for motor homes. If it's a bus you have to remove the seats. I wonder how many people buying a tesla or any other truck with that towing capacity change their license class when they buy a larger RV trailer that meets that capacity or if it's a commercial trailer do the same thing? I'll have to ask my younger brother that.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jimsz said:


> And, if you happened to drive it off the beach into the water, would everyone swimming get electrocuted?


Not too sure but if you park it on the lawn in the rain with a ground wire you probably would get a lot of worms. If you're going to drive it off the beach into the water better be prepared to be fined for illegal fishing. Being a tesla I guess it floats so then you might need it registered as a boat too.


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

yes G is the same as your class 5. Landscapers get pinched around hear when they get those little dump trailers loaded up and only have a G .


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

vadsy said:


> this is why it’s doomed to fail


Yep. It's all a big hoax anyway. Diane Francis: 22nd century transport options are coming much sooner than you think


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

jb welder said:


> Yep. It's all a big hoax anyway. Diane Francis: 22nd century transport options are coming much sooner than you think


I hope Atikokan gets one to drop me off at the cabin...


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

jb welder said:


> Yep. It's all a big hoax anyway. Diane Francis: 22nd century transport options are coming much sooner than you think


Wonder who her editor is?



> Peter Diamandis learned that the “robots” that will transport us and everything are coming in a handful of years.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

jimsz said:


> It looked like a large weight on the back of the cyber truck to stop the wheels from spinning. Did they put weights in the Ford, as well? I know my f150 spins easily if there's no weight in the back.


Oh it was a completely unfair test. I wouldn’t expect the unweighted ford to pull the forklift holding the skid of bricks either.

Mostly I just appreciate the fact that Tesla is picking on ford specifically. Dodge, gm etc are all sweating hoping it stays that way


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

mike_oxbig said:


> Oh it was a completely unfair test. I wouldn’t expect the unweighted ford to pull the forklift holding the skid of bricks either.


I think the key here may have been that (once again) the Ford was RWD only.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jb welder said:


> Yep. It's all a big hoax anyway. Diane Francis: 22nd century transport options are coming much sooner than you think


When one of those things can land at the cabin I may consider it...same with one of those driver less cars if it can make it to the front porch, summer or winter. They better come fully charged 'cause there isn't anyplace close to charge it. I see the Uber Technologies Inc.'s eCRM-003 has a range of 60 miles per charge and will carry one pilot and 4 passengers....not too sure what altitude they can fly at. Now if I'm say in Drumheller and want to fly to Vancouver that means I have to fly out of Calgary.....can't to that by Uber 'cause it's to far and I doubt if a driver less car could do it either. Seeing as there's no longer Greyhound or any other bus service from there I'll have to ride the bike or drive the truck and if I'm going to do that I might as well ride or drive all the way to Vancouver. If I'm at the cabin and one of those things make it that far I'd salvage the wreckage.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Who had “no place to charge it where I’m going” in their electric vehicles bingo?


----------



## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

vadsy said:


> Who had “no place to charge it where I’m going” in their electric vehicles bingo?


I'll take, "Ran out of juice on an open highway in the middle of nowhere and had to get towed" for $200, Alex.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

jimsz said:


> I'll take, "Ran out of juice on an open highway in the middle of nowhere and had to get towed" for $200, Alex.


This always happens. 
Do you need petrol?


----------



## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

vadsy said:


> This always happens.
> Do you need petrol?


Yes, pour it all over my electric car so I can torch it.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

jimsz said:


> Yes, pour it all over my electric car so I can torch it.


I see you’re still upset about the go-cart beating your trucks tugger


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

When you can run your newfangled iron-horse on hay, telegram me.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

They way things are going we’ll soon be back to horses and cybermules shittin in the streets.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jb welder said:


> When you can run your newfangled iron-horse on hay, telegram me.


*.... . .-. . -.-- --- ..- --. ---*
Well, you can make bio-fuel from hay and it doesn't take much to convert a truck to run on it.








It's already done using recycled cooking oil. There's probably something in the Whole Earth Catalogue about it. If they could do it in the late '60s and early '70s then they should be able to do it now. Maybe just pass that hay through a pig or cow or horse or chicken first.
If it will run on propane or natural gas it will run on methane.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

jimsz said:


> I'll take, "Ran out of juice on an open highway in the middle of nowhere and had to get towed" for $200, Alex.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Yeah, just put everything into one truck.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

explain why the 2 dolts in the pic are smiling ?


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Because the stagecoach never went through that area before?


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

wait ! it's the bosses car !


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Yeah, just put everything into one truck.


Bolt, Leaf, and Tesla Owners Take Note: AAA Temporarily Suspends Emergency Battery Electric Vehicle Charging Program | Torque News


----------



## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Can you imagine trying to plan a vacation with the family?

Damn, can't go there.
Damn, can't go there.
Damn, can't go there.
Damn, can't go there.
Damn, can't go there.

Okay honey, we can make it just past the outskirts of town, there's a motel with a pool beside a charging station.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

jimsz said:


> Okay honey, we can make it just past the outskirts of town, there's a motel with a pool beside a charging station.


To be fair you wouldn’t make very far on gas if we removed most the refill stations. 

I can see charging ports popping up absolutely everywhere in the near future. Charge while you shop, charge while you’re at work, charge while you sleep. I don’t “make it very far” on my iPhone battery but here I am using it. We’ll adapt.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Bet If we left it up to the oil tycoons to shift towards this kinda energy we’d have tons of refill stations but our car battery would be along the same lines as a propane tank exchange. Most people argue passionately for the side of gas like they haven’t been price gouging us for the last 50 years...I don’t get it


----------



## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

mike_oxbig said:


> To be fair you wouldn’t make very far on gas if we removed most the refill stations.
> 
> I can see charging ports popping up absolutely everywhere in the near future. Charge while you shop, charge while you’re at work, charge while you sleep. I don’t “make it very far” on my iPhone battery but here I am using it. We’ll adapt.


Sorry Mike, nothing personal about your purchase, just having some fun. Like Vadsy said, I'm still very angry about the go-cart pulling the f150.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

jimsz said:


> Sorry Mike, nothing personal about your purchase, just having some fun. Like Vadsy said, I'm still very angry about the go-cart pulling the f150.


Oh nothing personal taken. I have gas and diesel too i’m Trying to be unbiased. It just seems that a lot of the arguments seem to give combustion engines range credit when really we just have the infrastructure built to suit it. I think I’d be more fucked if I ran out of diesel out of town than if my battery had to trickle charge for a few hours


----------



## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

mike_oxbig said:


> Oh nothing personal taken. I have gas and diesel too i’m Trying to be unbiased. It just seems that a lot of the arguments seem to give combustion engines range credit when really we just have the infrastructure built to suit it. I think I’d be more fucked if I ran out of diesel out of town than if my battery had to trickle charge for a few hours


I'm a big fan of electric stuff, I rarely if ever buy gas powered tools, my Stihl chainsaw is even electric. I have several RC planes all using brushless motors, the only thing other than my car and truck that runs on petrol (diesel) is my my John Deere 323E.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

mike_oxbig said:


> It just seems that a lot of the arguments seem to give combustion engines range credit when really we just have the infrastructure built to suit it.


The existing infrastructure is the whole thing. If gas was starting from zero and you tried to tell people how many stations there would be, they'd laugh you right out of town. It got built up for gas, it can get built up for EV charging stations.

What I'm wondering is, of BEV or Hydrogen, which one will end up the Betamax and which the VHS.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

mike_oxbig said:


> To be fair you wouldn’t make very far on gas if we removed most the refill stations.


900-1000 KM per tank (approx 10 gallons ) ... 500-600 miles on diesel 
or walk into a grocery store and buy any vegetable oil and pour it in the tank if I have to (except in winter)
renewable energy and all that ... or a bit of sodium hydroxide and methyl hydrate to turn it into true bio-diesel.

the EV hold back right now is the power lines needed to provide the electricity to power more than 1 charger 

the power grids can't handle the load ... the power generating stations can't supply enough for the demand .
the charging stations would all need "fast chargers" and they draw a lot per unit 
(plus tens of thousands $$$ per unit to install ) 
no one is going to wait 30 minutes to charge up (as well as wait for the guy in front to charge )
so a lineup of 3 cars means an hour and a half before you get "filled up".
"bye honey, I'm off to recharge the car , be back around suppertime "
or "might as well go inside and have lunch while we recharge"

charging stations within a city ---- some
charging stations outside the city --- LOL

at least europe has mandated a standard charger plug/unit and is installing charging stations between cities on the highways.

no insurance company is going to cover a hydrogen powered car for the masses ... a la Hindenburg
big commercial vehicles with massive protection for the tanks , maybe.
and how do we get H? ... lotsa electricity to split water ... again a massive need for electricity.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

what do you drive that gets 900km on a tank? A vw golf? And you’re putting that mileage up against a 5000lb truck? Well I suppose it does win by 100km but you’re gonna have to make 5 extra trips to move any cargo.

In your scenario You’re too stranded for an electric vehicle to find a place to plug in to but you’re counting on a grocery store to win your point for diesel? Sit down.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

My nephew has a 2018 electric Kia Soul with a fancy heavy duty charge adapter he carries with him but doesn't work everywhere. In the summer on fairly level roads it gets about 180 KM a charge depending on the speed, loses between 30% and 40% in the winter. Highway speeds to Vancouver it's loses KM. He says that taking the Cog to Van is usually 4 charges, adding about 3 hrs. to the trip if there is no line up. There's 5 places to charge in Merritt with I think 15 charging ports in total....two places have only 2 ports each. Nothing between Kelowna to Merritt and nothing between Merritt and Hope. He doesn't mind the car in the Okanagan but if he decides that he wants to say ski Manning, he borrows his Dad's car which is gas and on a full tank goes from Vernon to Vancouver and back to Merritt. Pulling his 35 foot RV trailer with a quad in the back my son does it on a tank and a half in his 2019 Silverado. That's from Airdre. For the quad he carries extra gas.....25 l which will work in the truck if needed.
Saying "if we remove the filling stations" is about as ludicrous as saying there'll be charging stations all over the place, in the future. That doesn't help now and now, if you're out of the city any distance is what you have to worry about. There will be a lot of places where there probably never will be charging stations.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Black/brownouts still happen. What then.


----------



## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Electricity can be produced a lot easier than gas. We have an infinite supply that doesnt pollute the planet anywhere near the extent oil has.

We chose the wrong path years ago and why there is any debate now is beyond me. 

Yes we built the infrastructure for gas but with some gov't incentives the tides can change easily enough. The money that has gone towards oil extraction is huge and never mind the cleanup costs when an underwater well blows its lid and contaminates the gulf of mexico (remember that one?). Put the same amount towards renewable electric generation and transportation infrastructure and we will overcome some of the hurdles that currently exist.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

it'll take some time but once the doubter generation wanders the desert and dies off their grandkids will inherit the bounty of the promised land. we gonna be rollin our electric chariots on 56" dubs. just as the Lord said unto the people. 

peace be with you


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Moosehead said:


> Electricity can be produced a lot easier than gas.


How? Build dams on rivers, flooding large areas of land, costing a hell of a lot of money, and for since most of the good areas for dams are remote building grids to get the power to other grids and then building other grids to get power to where it can be used. Tidal generators? Aside from screwing up the ecology they are limited as to where they can be put. How about we put one in the Bay of Fundy? Solar? They've been working on that for years. Again you have cost of building, transportation etc. including turning the power from the solar cells to usable power. Wind is about as bad except there is a limit as to where you can put the turbines. Nuclear? Do you want one of those plants in your neighbourhood? "when an underwater well blows its lid and contaminates the gulf of mexico (remember that one?)." Point Lepreau, N.B. Pickering, Darlington......remember those? I guess fuel burning plants are out. Steam generators? Nope, those burn fuel. As for the money going towards the extraction of fuel? I don't know of any gov't owned plants in Ab. or BC. . I do believe almost all electrical generating plants are gov't owned so they are pumping money into them.


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

electric suppliers are already gearing up. My electric rates just went up 40% Overnight. Not consumption ,price of the ( )hit per KW.


All these whiners about the environment are the same people that sit in a drive through line (ten cars deep) for 10 minutes idling while not one person is at the counter inside. I got several neighbors that idle their car for 20 minutes every morning so they don't have to scrape the window or breath a little cold air. My point is we are creating a lot of emissions from oil that are not necessary.


----------



## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Electraglide said:


> How? Build dams on rivers, flooding large areas of land, costing a hell of a lot of money, and for since most of the good areas for dams are remote building grids to get the power to other grids and then building other grids to get power to where it can be used. Tidal generators? Aside from screwing up the ecology they are limited as to where they can be put. How about we put one in the Bay of Fundy? Solar? They've been working on that for years. Again you have cost of building, transportation etc. including turning the power from the solar cells to usable power. Wind is about as bad except there is a limit as to where you can put the turbines. Nuclear? Do you want one of those plants in your neighbourhood? "when an underwater well blows its lid and contaminates the gulf of mexico (remember that one?)." Point Lepreau, N.B. Pickering, Darlington......remember those? I guess fuel burning plants are out. Steam generators? Nope, those burn fuel. As for the money going towards the extraction of fuel? I don't know of any gov't owned plants in Ab. or BC. . I do believe almost all electrical generating plants are gov't owned so they are pumping money into them.


I think you just answered your own question. Yes solar, wind, tidal and hydro. Nuclear yes but not necessarily what i was referring to. 

There are hurdles to overcome just as there are extracting oil from 1000m under the sea. Where there is the will they will find a way.

While the Gov't may not own oil sands operations there are gov't subsidies that made these projects viable. Without subsidies (and high oil prices) they never would have got off the ground. 

Solar has come a long way in the last 20 years and has limited hurdles to overcome making it a prefered method of electrical power generation anywhere the sun shines.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Just for info, this is the Kamuthi power project in India. It cover's 2,500 acres








Here's another pic.








This is what it takes to power 150,000 homes. And this doesn't include the storage facilities for when the sun goes down. In most of Canada you can include the cost of keeping them snow free. Also doesn't include the cost of replacing panels as they degrade and/or get broken.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Wind Turbine Blades Can’t Be Recycled, So They’re Piling Up in Landfills
_Companies are searching for ways to deal with the tens of thousands of blades that have reached the end of their lives.








_


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Some people just can’t see past their nose. If we were at square one today and had the choice to build either system with the same budget as we’ve given to oil extraction, refining and delivery all these “arguments” would be irrelevant.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

laristotle said:


> Wind Turbine Blades Can’t Be Recycled, So They’re Piling Up in Landfills
> _Companies are searching for ways to deal with the tens of thousands of blades that have reached the end of their lives.
> 
> View attachment 297172
> _


That’s a lot of metal fans
I’m more of a hard rock guy


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Electraglide said:


> Just for info, this is the Kamuthi power project in India. It cover's 2,500 acres
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How many people lined up to protest building those?


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mike_oxbig said:


> How many people lined up to protest building those?


They're in India so as long as no cows were disturbed probably none.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

vadsy said:


> it'll take some time but once the doubter generation wanders the desert and dies off their grandkids will inherit the bounty of the promised land. we gonna be rollin our electric chariots on 56" dubs. just as the Lord said unto the people.
> 
> peace be with you


some bounty
some promised land


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Electraglide said:


> They're in India so as long as no cows were disturbed probably none.


Assuming your numbers are right, it would take 5012 sq km of solar fields to provide power to all of Canada. Does that sound like a lot? We have almost 10 million sq km to work with and the vast majority is unpopulated


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

mike_oxbig said:


> Assuming your numbers are right, it would take 5012 sq km of solar fields to provide power to all of Canada. Does that sound like a lot? We have almost 10 million sq km to work with and the vast majority is unpopulated


That’s 1/3rd of what burned in bc in 2018

Someone double check my numbers I never was great at geometry


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Moosehead said:


> I think you just answered your own question. Yes solar, wind, tidal and hydro. Nuclear yes but not necessarily what i was referring to.
> 
> There are hurdles to overcome just as there are extracting oil from 1000m under the sea. Where there is the will they will find a way.
> 
> ...


My brother has been using and dealing with solar power since 1973, both on a small and large scale.....things haven't progressed that far, just the prices have gone up. Solar, wind, tidal and hydro all need quite specific areas to be viable. What say, just for the hell of it they decide to put a hydro power system above the Falls. Nope can't do that there. Wind, there's a very narrow strip across Ab. where they can be putting up turbines.....of any sort. Same with other places. Tidal, even more limited and one of the problems with a lot of places where tidal power might work is that they are also places where nice little winds blow each year.....nice names like Irene and Noel. Maybe they could put a wind generator in conjunction with a tidal generator. As far as oil operations.....not only oil sands, they've been flying for years and will for a lot longer 'cause fuel and heating oil aren't the only products from them. You wouldn't have much if you took away all the oil based products. 
BTW, viable solar power stations nee a lot more than just "anywhere the sun shines". A flat area for one and being able to track the sun. The further north or south you get the less viable they are, same with things like snow load. And city sized solar generating stations are sort of hard on the wild life and plant life.....same with hydro ones. Plus you need a hell of a big space for power conversion and storage, especially when the sun don't shine. Oh yeah, as I said, my brother has been dealing with solar and othe alternate power sources since '73....so have I. Aside from solar we set up a small hydro generating system on one of the creeks on his property and a thermal system and a wind generator.....sorry, no tidal. BC probably won't be using tidal, they're going for wave power. And I believe the solar power turbines south of here are gov't projects.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

I’ve noticed you have a lot of relatives with direct experience in any topic you want to talk about


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mike_oxbig said:


> Assuming your numbers are right, it would take 5012 sq km of solar fields to provide power to all of Canada. Does that sound like a lot? We have almost 10 million sq km to work with and the vast majority is unpopulated


But how much of that land is useable for large power stations......not much. any mountaious area is out, same with any area covered with trees ot water. 


mike_oxbig said:


> Some people just can’t see past their nose. If we were at square one today and had the choice to build either system with the same budget as we’ve given to oil extraction, refining and delivery all these “arguments” would be irrelevant.


It's just too bad we're not starting out isn't it. 


mike_oxbig said:


> I’ve noticed you have a lot of relatives with direct experience in any topic you want to talk about


One or two.
Anyway hopefully if and when you finally get your truck it's all you hope it is.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Electraglide said:


> But how much of that land is useable for large power stations......not much. any mountaious area is out, same with any area covered with trees ot water.


I see the problem. You think we live in Denmark. I’m not going to answer all your googleable questions. Go Ask Jeeves then say you got the answer years ago from your brother in laws second cousin.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

“Solar panels won’t work in Vancouver”


Government: but they’ll work in Toronto, right?


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

laristotle said:


> Wind Turbine Blades Can’t Be Recycled, So They’re Piling Up in Landfills
> _Companies are searching for ways to deal with the tens of thousands of blades that have reached the end of their lives.
> 
> View attachment 297172
> _


Blades are made of fiberglass. Just like all them fiberglass boats siting in fields. Expensive to get rid of and they go to landfill ( big tipping fee) or are cut up and buried by the land owner. Great for the environment.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Humorous thread. So much misinformation. 

From a utility POV, solar/wind/tidal are nothing more than 'extra' sources - they will never be backbone or firm. Ever. Storing power for a city of a million, including industry, to get through the night. LOL The amount of batteries and the pollution required to make them boggles the mind. 

Your three choice of firm power supply are hydro, thermal (gas/oil/coal) and nuclear (which is just another form of thermal). By the looks of the current environmental direction, the only choice in the long run is going to be nuclear. How does that sit with all the environmentalists that are making that the case? 

And the elephant in the room, once a 'critical mass' (maybe shouldn't use that term in a thread with a nuclear component) of electric vehicles is sold, the govt will start taxing electricity to recover the lost road tax. Have a look at the percentage of your fuel price that is road tax (general revenue, more accurately). That is a percentage of relatively expensive fuel costs, the percentage will be much higher for an electricity tax, because the govt will need _at least the same amount of revenue_ from a tax on a less expensive commodity. That's just another nice way of saying "enjoy your free ride while you have it, it ain't gonna last forever."


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Moosehead said:


> Solar has come a long way in the last 20 years and has limited hurdles to overcome .... making it a prefered method of electrical power generation anywhere the sun shines.


hold on a sec ... gotta find my solar powered flashlight somewhere here in the dark

if it is the preferred method ... why has germany dumped it's solar / wind and gone back to nuclear ? "too unreliable"

the sweetheart of SOCAL that was given billions by the government to advance solar , failed miserably... (lotsa egg on everyone's face )

quoting the sq miles of canada does nothing to change the fact that we are NOT directly under the sun during winter ... angle of the sun is grossly diminished and the "power generating" capabilities to fall off steeply. ( as well as the snow covering the panels ).

the present panels are about 40% efficient during the summer ... and less than 9% in winter ...
soooo , which 1/4 of the day do you want power during the winter. ( or everyone uses 3/4 less power )

heat your house while the sun shines and freeze during the night ?
looks like another 3 dog night.

sorry kids , no TV the sun is going down and we won't have power.

I'll stick to my diesel and renewable fuel


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

mike_oxbig said:


> You’re too stranded for an electric vehicle to find a place to plug in to but you’re counting on a grocery store to win your point for diesel?


 yup .... and I'll drive till my ass gets numb and still have fuel in the tank and not worry about it.... anywhere , even in the country.
knock knock , I'm sorry to bother you sir / madam , but I've run out of diesel , do you have any vegetable oil you can sell me ? 
or walk up to any farm ... 

drive an electric only and worry about making it out of the city in ontario... I don't think so

the wynne gov gave out a wack of cash to have charging stations installed across toronto ... 
1/10 got installed and the company installing, filed for bankruptcy.

hybrids are a better option , but still frowned upon by the purists ....
I'd meet them 1/2 way , electric with diesel backup... but you ain't gonna see that anytime soon .


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

Solar and wind, as has been referenced multiple times, the 2 big barriers are 
-cost. Several times investment per kw/h as opposed to nat gas etc
-storage. 1000x the cost of power to put the storage in place with today's tech. Doable on a small scale if you want, but not on city sized scale, anywhere.

Often, comparisons are made on costs AFTER subsidies, no no no gotta back those out first.

Tech vs oil n gas, well, I was gonna say that fossil fuels had a big head start, but nope. Timeline of solar cells - Wikipedia Been working on that solar for coming 200 years now.

Nuclear is the future.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

oldjoat said:


> yup .... and I'll drive till my ass gets numb and still have fuel in the tank and not worry about it.... anywhere , even in the country.
> knock knock , I'm sorry to bother you sir / madam , but I've run out of diesel , do you have any vegetable oil you can sell me ?
> or walk up to any farm ...
> 
> ...


Do you really think it would be easier to find a tank worth of of vegetable oil than to find someone with electricity?

Really?

Really?

Really?

When you’ve figured out a long winded answer to that you can go ahead and take a gander at how many motorists could prime their own diesel line on the side of the road.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

keto said:


> Nuclear is the future.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

ok short answer ... most diesels today have lift pumps in the tank to "prime" the injector systems , no need to do it manually anymore
same for modern tractors .... (you have been down on the farm lately , right ?)

just turn the key on / buzzz / off /on buzzz / off till the sound changes
then crank as normal .

and as for really? yes 

I'm sticking to tried and true till something better (tried and true) comes along.

I hate cutting edge (till ALL the bugs are worked out)

I'm not stopping You from jumping in with both feet ( it is your right )

no disrespect intended ... but don't try to shame me into doing things your way
( it won't work because I'm stubborn and don't care )
I do what works for me ... when something better does come along , proven , then I'll switch.


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 297310


Man, I see that and I'm right to the chorus on this one


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

oldjoat said:


> no disrespect intended ... but don't try to shame me into doing things your way
> ( it won't work because I'm stubborn and don't care )
> I do what works for me ... when something better does come along , proven , then I'll switch.


You’re in my thread talking about how electric vehicles will never work but I’m shaming you?

Here’s some shaming. How dare you care about the convenience of the last 10 years of your life more than the environmental impact caused that your grandchildren will have to grow up in. To strongly oppose a cleaner transportation system for no reason other than being bored online is bullshit. I’ll bet you’re the same kind of asshole that makes fun of Greta at every turn possible from the comfort of your living room.

As for my way, as if my way is electric, I would bet I burn more gas and diesel than you. Even if this works out i’ll Still burn just as much diesel. I’d just like not to. So I don’t know what you’re talking about when you say “my way” as if we’re supposed to be at ends because I don’t share your short sightedness. They have a term for you people, called nay sayers.

“The one who plants trees, knowing he may never sit in their shade, has at least started to understand the meaning of life”


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

mike_oxbig said:


> Do you really think it would be easier to find a tank worth of of vegetable oil than to find someone with electricity?


There's a McD's on almost every second block of any city.


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

laristotle said:


> There's a McD's on almost every second block of any city.


And considerably more power outlets lol


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

You would have an easier time plugging in than getting them to give you vegetable oil. I see people charging their laptops there all the time. Several tables have plugs. Some even have USB outlets. I’ve never seen a “community” vegetable oil receptacle.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

what self respecting diesel owner would put McDonald’s grease through their engine?


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

mike_oxbig said:


> How dare you care about the convenience of the last 10 years of your life more than the environmental impact caused that your grandchildren will have to grow up in


OK lets get serious .
have you researched the global destruction needed to mine the lithium ? and you need cobalt too.
( only a few places for deposits around the world ) and limited quantity . 
(same would go if everyone demanded gold coin instead of paper or plastic , there's only so much of it to go around ... )
then it gets shipped to China to be "processed" into batteries . ( we never hear about the chinese workers suffering horrible side effects, but they do)
very limited life (4-5) years before the battery pack is pretty well useless and has to be "processed" again . (just look at any laptop battery for proof )
so all that clean stored electricity isn't so green with coal burning hydro plants to power the processing factories in china and no hazardous waste controls.

( yes I'll agree that vehicles pollute too, some more than others )
I don't drive an old diesel without smog controls ... so it burns pretty clean.

I don't refute that there are people trying to find a better, cleaner way
but I've been around the block a few times and know well enough to steer clear of "newer is better" ... until it has a proven track record.

as for pulling up to MC'D /Tims and ask to plug your car in ... good luck with that 
ask for some waste veg oil and you'll get it (just remember to change the fuel filters when you get home and drain / flush the tank to clear the crud )
but if there's a coffee shop near bye, there'll be either a grocery store or a service station 

as for the last 10 years of my life (or more) .... still looking for a better way, but so far diesel fits the bill and is dependable.
when I'm 300 miles into the northern bush , I know I'm getting back out without looking for an outlet or carrying a backup gas generator.

Musk might succeed , and I hope he does ... and that the gov builds charging stations clear across the country , 
but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

I said before ... go for it (it is your right) , but don't expect me to follow till it is a proven and trusted technology.

we've gone from carbs to fuel injection /w cats and now direct injection for gas ... every step of the way , we've gotten cleaner and cleaner with less emissions 
and have gotten better gas mileage ... we haven't been standing still


----------

