# First step into the digital world



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I got a 2nd hand Mooer GE200 last night. Not a high end machine by any stretch, but I got it at a good price and thought I'd take that step into digital. I had an hour with it and so far I really like being able to switch around amp models. I've had Line 6 and Behringer modeling amps before, but this thing takes the cake. I will learn how to find and import IR into it for more models that may suit my playing or style over some of the preset models that are just, ummmmm, not overly usable to me. I bought it knowing it had lines in the LCD screen, but it doesn't affect functionality. I'd love to fix it one day just because my "OCD" says so, but at least the lines are not right in the middle and obstructing the whole screen. I ran it through the FX send on my Fender head into my 4x10 and it sounded pretty good. I'll be spending time with it and editing to my ears liking. I'll try it through my H&K tube head and my PPC412 and see if it sounds even better next time I plug in. Stock photo and photo of the lines on the screen. Maybe somebody with electronics knowledge can tell me the issue. I took the back off and there is no obvious cables loose/off, no disconnected anything...etc.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

And so it begins.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

^ -- This is YOUR fault !!!!


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Verne said:


> ^ -- This is YOUR fault !!!!


Yeah yeah, it's always someone else's fault.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Verne said:


> ^ -- This is YOUR fault !!!!


Throw blame when I get you into an Axe fx ii and monitors and you've sold everything else (and you love it) haha


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

@Verne , since you are plugging that into a guitar amp / cab, are you bypassing or defeating the IR/cab emulation? If not, you are effectively running an electronic guitar 'cabinet' into a physical guitar cab. 

The results will be more accurate if you use either the guitar cab and no internal emulation or cab emulation 'ON' and through a full range speaker, like a studio monitor or a dedicated FRFR.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

It's a decent little unit.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

@High/Deaf I had read online about going from the output on the Mooer to the FX loop and running through the head into the cab. The head does not colour the tone. I checked to be sure. I turned the volume on the head up and it did not go up in volume. I am assuming then that the head is only a vehicle for sound. The FX volume on the back DOES adjust volume though. I can't explain it in technical terms as I don't even know what those terms would be. I believe the emulation still works as it should hooked up this way and it's just the speakers in the cab that might colour the final tone. As even a powered cab speaker would do I suppose. I will try it through my 1x12 combo and 4x12 cab tonight. Hoping both being tube gives a much nicer sound.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Not being anywhere near knowledgeable in electronics or how to set up some gear, I tried running this straight into a cab. Nope. Tried the mono out with a speaker cable and a guitar cable just to see. Ran into a 410 or 412 and no sound. Wasn't really surprised. Without owning studio speakers or powered cab, is using the FX send (or earphones) the only way to get sound out of the unit?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Yes. There is no power amp built in.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I just learned that. Looking at the Mooer Baby Bomb 30. I now have a new "task". Looking for a power amp pedal (w/adapter) and running my H&K cab with this unit. I can see why digital starts to eliminate the amp numbers in the music room. Of course, as always, $$$ is the issue. I am trying to find a 2nd hand power amp pedal. Mooer runs around $130 new. 

I also sent a message to Mooer on FB about the screen, and they said if I can fix it myself, they'd send a new screen. Here's hoping. I did take it apart and I think I can replace the screen. I got it to that point without actually taking the screen out. No rush, it works awesome through headphones and sounds really good through my Acoustic (brand, not style) 112 amp.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Normal use for these things vary but the way I get great sound is as follows:

Main output from floor unit to the guitar input on a clean amp - no cab sim
Balanced output from the floor unit into a mixer then, the mixer's main outputs into FRFR speakers - WITH cab sim
Test each patch with various IRs as using a global IR for all patches will sound bad
If you don't have a mixer, you can go directly into the FRFR speakers from the floor unit's L and R outputs. Just beware that sometimes using 1/4" instead of XLR can result in impedance mismatches which can make the sound weak.

If you want suggestions on IRs, let me know.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Verne said:


> @High/Deaf I had read online about going from the output on the Mooer to the FX loop and running through the head into the cab. The head does not colour the tone. I checked to be sure. I turned the volume on the head up and it did not go up in volume. I am assuming then that the head is only a vehicle for sound. The FX volume on the back DOES adjust volume though. I can't explain it in technical terms as I don't even know what those terms would be. I believe the emulation still works as it should hooked up this way and it's just the speakers in the cab that might colour the final tone. As even a powered cab speaker would do I suppose. I will try it through my 1x12 combo and 4x12 cab tonight. Hoping both being tube gives a much nicer sound.


Kind of two different things. You are talking about routing the output of the Mooer through the amp's FX loop - that is the best way to do it as that bypass the amplifier's preamp circuitry, which will definitely color the modeler's sound some. Going into the FX loop should put you straight into the guitar amp's power amp section, which has the least amount of 'coloring'.

But guitar-specific speaker cabinets have massive coloring as well - coloring that we desire. Your Mooer has the ability to fake that 'guitar speaker coloring' with something called IR or cabinet emulation (or perhaps other words in the Mooer world, they all mean the same thing).

If you plug a guitar amp straight into a flat speaker system (a PA speaker, a monitor, an FRFR 'guitar' cab), it won't sound right. The speaker is too good, too much bandwidth and the sound is generally harsh. The limited bandwidth of the regular guitar cabinet (not FRFR or PA) helps the guitar amp sound 'right'.

But modelers, like your Mooer, are made to plug into PA's or monitors or FRFR, so to sound 'right', they have built-in IR's or cabinet emulation that do the same thing as the limited bandwidth of a guitar speaker / cabinet does. Into an FRFR (or similar) and with IR / cab emulation ON, it sounds accurate to what the designer intended.

But if you plug that 'processed with IRs' sound into a guitar amp - even correctly into the FX return as you are doing - you are still getting the double whammy of IR and physical guitar speaker both doing the same thing, not what the designers intended.

Internally, inside the programming of the Mooer, you should be able to turn IR / cabinet emulation OFF so that you don't have it processing the sound before it gets to the actual physical guitar cabinet. It should be either IR / cabinet emulation or real guitar speaker, not both at the same time.


{edited} And I think this is worth discussing because some people seem to think the only way to use a modeler live is to use IRs or cab emulation through an FRFR or other full-range monitor. I tried that a number of times and never liked it. I much prefer my modeler with cab emulation OFF and through a regular guitar cab - it's more of an 'amp in the room' sound, IMO. That made all the difference in the world to me using my KPA live on stage. I still use cab emulation for recording and, rather than mic'ing the KPA live, I will take line-outs, with cab emulation ON, to the PA.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

For me, the best of both worlds is a guitar amp and a PA system. But, your floor modeler has to have the option to turn IRs/Cab sims OFF to the amp output and ON to the PA. Not all floor units can do this. My GT-1000, which is more of a professional modeler, does support that. Otherwise, nothing wrong with going to a guitar amp only.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I just looked up how to turn off cab sim. It was on for both outputs. Now they are both off. I assume when I use headphones I'd want to turn them back on? The Cab sim on/thru is dedicated to L/R outputs. I am hoping this means with headphones the cab sim is on by default. Before I start downloading IRs, I want to learn this unit a bit more. I'd love a nice SRV tone though. I haven't started searching for any specific sites for them yet.

For the time being, I have either my combo, head or headphones for any output sound. No PA or FRFR or powered cab. I'll say "YET" before @Budda says it for me. 😁


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Yes, if the unit allows it, send the IR to the headphones. I’d think that would be the default but who knows. I rarely use headphones and never really paid attention to that setup.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Verne said:


> For the time being, I have either my combo, head or headphones for any output sound. No PA or FRFR or powered cab.


Headphones = PA or FRFR. Powered cab can be either FRFR or not, depending on driver(s). 

I use 'phones to fine tune my Main Out sound of my KPA, the signal that I ultimately send to the PA.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Would a SS head have less oomph in the power section than a tube head? I ask because when I play this through the Fender London Reverb head, the volume is really low. I can take the cable and plug into my Acoustic tube amp and it's easily 10x louder. No adjustments made on the Mooer. If I use my TM36 I can use the power soak to adjust volume at the head, but the Fender head is just incredibly quiet compared to the tube amps.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Then just turn up the quieter amp. Voila, oomph.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Yeah, I get that. It’s more of a why question.

“Doc, it hurts when I do this”
“Then don’t do that”


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Is there an fx loop send and return volume on all amps? Are they all at the same level?


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Verne said:


> Would a SS head have less oomph in the power section than a tube head? I ask because when I play this through the Fender London Reverb head, the volume is really low. I can take the cable and plug into my Acoustic tube amp and it's easily 10x louder. No adjustments made on the Mooer. If I use my TM36 I can use the power soak to adjust volume at the head, but the Fender head is just incredibly quiet compared to the tube amps.


You might have an impedance mismatch. Try a speaker cable or another, shorter cable.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Also, what are the output ratings of both amps? If you plug in an electric to both amps, is the volume equivalen?


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

@Budda — I used a dB meter app to get all amps to within a few numbers of each other, so they are pretty much the same. The Fender does have an FX volume and I have it at 10. 

@1SweetRide — I can try a speaker cable, but is a guitar cable not the proper one into an FX loop? It’s the same cable for each amp. Eventually I want to get a little pedal power amp to run straight into any cab. Just can’t at the moment


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Laptop is out of commission at the moment so can’t look, but pretty sure the Mooer is 8ohm as is the Fender.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Verne said:


> @Budda — I used a dB meter app to get all amps to within a few numbers of each other, so they are pretty much the same. The Fender does have an FX volume and I have it at 10.
> 
> @1SweetRide — I can try a speaker cable, but is a guitar cable not the proper one into an FX loop? It’s the same cable for each amp. Eventually I want to get a little pedal power amp to run straight into any cab. Just can’t at the moment


Ahh, didn’t know you were still going into the loop. Try the guitar input and turn cab sim off.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Also is everything going to the same cab or no? Different speaker efficiencies will have different volumes. Also more speakers means more air moving.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Figured it out. There is a pull switch in the front that must enable the FX loop. It got quite loud after pulling it out. Granted, it’s one of the pots that need replacing on that amp, so it’s not the easiest to turn on. But I may run the Mooer through this head exclusive for now just to keep volumes even. Thanks guys.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Verne said:


> Figured it out. There is a pull switch in the front that must enable the FX loop. It got quite loud after pulling it out. Granted, it’s one of the pots that need replacing on that amp, so it’s not the easiest to turn on. But I may run the Mooer through this head exclusive for now just to keep volumes even. Thanks guys.


Cool. Glad you found that.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Update to the pedal having lines through the screen.

I got my new screen today. Wasn't difficult to install at all. Was even able to peel the foam off the old screen in one piece and affix to the backside of the new screen. Looks amazing now. Bright and colourful like it should be. Bonus........Mooer also threw in 4 coloured footswitch covers in with the screen. Now I have 4 colours to add to the front to change up the appearance. Mooer has such incredible customer service in my case. This was all done very quickly. I can't thank them enough for going the extra length to be sure this customer is happy. Just amazing.


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