# Speaker rolling thread



## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

Have you changed or experimented with new guitar or bass speakers? Do you have a favourite that you keep coming back to?

Tell us about what you've discovered and what you like or dislike about your choices.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I'm waiting for one of these to arrive any day soon...









Mine will be an Alpha 8A and not a Beta 8A as seen in the pic above. I posted the wrong pic.
It is a small speaker for a (logically) small cab for a small room to be played at small volume levels for small durations of time by someone with a small level of skills. It should be perfect.

My thanks to @Jim Soloway for helping me with the decision ( Eminence Alpha and/or Beta and/or Delta 10&quot...)
and to @jbealsmusic for the great customer service at Next Gen.

I have bought, tried and sold many speakers through the years. It is a fun additional component of the guitar playing hobby.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

greco said:


> I'm waiting for one of these to arrive any day soon...
> View attachment 396910
> 
> 
> ...


Nice! What amp is that going into? Is it for a clean, jazz oriented sound?

I used to have an Henriksen 1x10 amp and I think it had an Eminence. Not sure if it was Delta or Beta. Really smooth sound.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Grab n Go said:


> Nice! What amp is that going into? Is it for a clean, jazz oriented sound?
> 
> I used to have an Henriksen 1x10 amp and I think it had an Eminence. Not sure if it was Delta or Beta. Really smooth sound.


Sorry, I wasn't clear. It is going in a trial cab of a Rumble 25 bass amp (which I bought for $100.00 used ...but pristine) to act as an extension cab for a Henriksen Blu (coincidentally!). 
I will keep the Rumble pristine(ish) by connecting the new speaker via the port in the baffle. I have a speaker cable with a 1/4" plug on one end and spade connectors on the other. 

My friend @laristotle has a friend that might need the Rumble as his little bass amp is unreliable/intermittent and I might use the cab from that amp as my extension cab "shell". These plans could all change in a nanosecond. 

Yes, correct...for clean, jazz oriented sound


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

I've been rolling speakers because I want something that can handle the higher wattage from my Quilter and DV Mark amps. I've been using 1x12 closed back cabs with Celestion G12-65's for years.

I first tried an Eminence Deltalite II 2512 (250w, neodymium magnet) in a 1x12 Thiele cab clone. I was trying to approximate an EV type speaker, but with lighter weight. 

Final verdict: In a way, it's both too dark and too bright for guitar. The upper mids are missing, but the treble is still there. It wasn't fun standing in front of this speaker. But off-axis, it was fine. This speaker would work okay for modern jazz-fusion.

For bass, it was midrange focused, but the low-end was there. 

Next, I tried an Eminence Wheelhouse (150w, neodymium magnet, hemp cone). Dig that green speaker!









I gotta say, this is my new favourite. It's smooth with really sweet mids. I didn't realize that my G12-65's have a bit of a mid scoop until I tried these. It responds to EQ adjustments very well. Add some treble, scoop the mids a bit, and the upper mid detail comes back, but without ever being harsh and piercing. 

They're really responsive to dynamics too. That hemp cone and neo magnet work really well together. This speaker just feels easier to play somehow.

If you want to tame an amp that's too bright, I think these would do the trick nicely.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Clear something up for me folks, are we talking rollin' speakers as winding them or just swapping them out?? I am confused and want to make sure I got this. 
It looks to me like just swapping....


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## ga20t (Jul 22, 2010)

I basically keep the following around, buying extras if I come across a deal:

Greenback
A-type
Eminence GB128
JBL K120

One of those usually does the trick with anything I drag home.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

Brunz said:


> Clear something up for me folks, are we talking rollin' speakers as winding them or just swapping them out?? I am confused and want to make sure I got this.
> It looks to me like just swapping....


Either way works for me. I figure this is a good way to learn more about people's experience with various speakers.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

My tastes used to be pretty simple - shitty low watt alnico mag stamped frame 12s for guitar (Marsland, RSC, generic PA drivers w whizzer cones) but solid over-spec (power handling vs amp) cast frame 15s, sometimes 12s for bass. Then things got complicated.

Experimenting more started from hifi - where that intersects with guitar is the Norelcos used in some old Traynors, and JBLs. I built some cabs and started trying different things out to see. I was looking for the ultimate dual use guitar/bass speaker - the JBL e120 came pretty close. Honorable mention to the Marsland Tallman Lamplighter (super blinged out with chrome frames and magnet covers; never stock in any amp but a homegrown aftermarket upgrade; never seen another pair since).

Went back to Marsland 12s for guitar again (though I discovered some Marslands were better than others - big Mag Garnet spec ones especially) and EV 15s for bass. ... Then I got a much bigger amp head ("120" watt Sunn with 4xKT88s in ultralinear mode, so closer to 200 watts) and the single EV seemed to be at it's limit. Tried a bunch of things, the RCF L15 was awesome - didn't bat an eye at the power but missing the top end I was used to with the EV. Currently settled on a freshly reconed Altec 921 (like the venerable 421 but twice the power handling - just a different voice coil). Technically no more power handling than the EV, but seems to hold it together better though sometimes I worry at the excursion.










I also got my first 4x12 (tall style zig zag speaker mounting Pepco stencil) for a sweet deal. The stock speakers were garbage but I liked the cab. Tried loading it with a pair each of JBL d120s and EVs. That was SO GOOD for both guitar and bass, but also a bnrick shithouse - could not one-man it up the stairs at all. Replaced the JBLs with Weber Neomags and that was better (the Neomags are, I maintain, having had them side by side with JBLs for a bit, the best most accurate JBL alternative and easily half the weight). Then replaced the EVs with a pair of Faital 12PR300s I got on a buyout deal from Avatar (love these, tighter more extended low end but not as much top as the EVs). This was even better (and lighter). The Webers were worth too much money and I happened to come across a pair of Cerwin Vega ER124s locally - the old school JBL copy used by Duane Allman, and I haven't looked back (still not as heavy as JBLs). Another cool JBL copy is the Yamaha JA-3052B - not my fave as I prefer ribbed or textured cones to smooth, but you can still get those stupid cheap (esp compared to actiual JBLs or other alternatives/copies) but you don't see them often. I think they mostly used those in multiway organ cabs.

















(clockwise from top L: C-V; Yamaha; Weber Grey Wolf; good vintage of Marsland; some low end Celestion)

For a single 12 I still like Marslands in my DIY transmission line cabs, but I also got a little Forte 3D copy cab (from a user here) with a 12>10 downsize ring and took a chance on a Weber 10UFH (Fane copy with a hemp cone ) that someone here was letting go stupid cheap, and that thing is amazing for punk riffage - midrange bite for days.


















Still haven't tried out that Weber Grey Wolf I got at the same time.

One last $ (and weight) saving tip: if you don't need the power handling, dump the EV 12/15L/Ms and try an EV Force 12 or 15 (smaller magnet and lower wattage voice coil, same cast frame, same cone = same tone but lower power handling and weight). Not easy to find but they come up.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Love me a good cerwin vega anything.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

Brunz said:


> Love me a good cerwin vega anything.


I didn't know they made guitar speakers. What are they like?


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

Granny Gremlin said:


> My tastes used to be pretty simple - shitty low watt alnico mag stamped frame 12s for guitar (Marsland, RSC, generic PA drivers w whizzer cones) but solid over-spec (power handling vs amp) cast frame 15s, sometimes 12s for bass. Then things got complicated.
> 
> Experimenting more started from hifi - where that intersects with guitar is the Norelcos used in some old Traynors, and JBLs. I built some cabs and started trying different things out to see. I was looking for the ultimate dual use guitar/bass speaker - the JBL e120 came pretty close. Honorable mention to the Marsland Tallman Lamplighter (super blinged out with chrome frames and magnet covers; never stock in any amp but a homegrown aftermarket upgrade; never seen another pair since).
> 
> ...


Awesome write-up. I learned a lot here.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Grab n Go said:


> I didn't know they made guitar speakers. What are they like?


I cannot say I have had them in an amp... but I have built a lot of floor cabs with them and i love them to bits. Never were the most tonal things, but they hit hard and they hold strong.
.... hell, I don't even own an amp right now I can call a guitar amp so I am here for the learning only in this regard


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## fogdart (Mar 22, 2017)

I’m an obsessive speaker swapper. There are a lot of speakers that I love but I tend find myself going back to the Celestion Alnico Cream and Scumback J75 LD. Mixing the two yields great results, or swapping the Alnico Cream for a Scumnico for brighter amps.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

I haven’t done a huge amount of speaker experiments, but have played with a few. 
i have an Evm 12l which should arrive tomorrow to put in the cab for my ceriatone hrm, to see if I like it more than the eminence delta that’s currently in it and sounds great as it is. 
I had 212 with vintage 30s that I didn’t like, so I swapped one of them for a scumback of some sort and it was great. I currently have a 212 with celestion black backs which I really like, I have a few of the thd vintage 10 inch speakers left which I have put in most of the tweed style amps I built, as well as changed the Jensen reissue In the tuxedo Princeton from this fella above me ^^


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

RBlakeney said:


> I haven’t done a huge amount of speaker experiments, but have played with a few.
> i have an Evm 12l which should arrive tomorrow to put in the cab for my ceriatone hrm, to see if I like it more than the eminence delta that’s currently in it and sounds great as it is.


Is that the Eminence Delta 12A? How do you like it? That was a speaker I was considering, but tried a Deltalite instead.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I changed the seventy 80's in my Blackstar 212 to 2 newer V30's. I like the clarity of v30's over them. I've also used an older early 90's G12T75 in my Fender BJ III, which I've switch off and on with the Jensen P12R (25W) that it came with originally. Unfortunately I can't stick the 8 Ohm G12T into the 212 because it needs 16 ohm speakers. I still have to get a 1x12 for the G12T and call it a day. I plug the BJ into the 212 depending on what I'm playing around with for sound and use the internal Jensen for cleaner or slightly driven stuff now.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Grab n Go said:


> Is that the Eminence Delta 12A? How do you like it? That was a speaker I was considering, but tried a Deltalite instead.


no idea. remind me tomorrow and I‘ll check it when I change it. itll Likely be for sale by tomorrow night or the next day, if all goes as planned.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I pretty much stopped swapping speakers once I found the Eminence Cannabis Rex. Put them in several amps and currently in my Traynor YCV40 (combo and cab) and DG30. Certainly tames the treble shrillness and firms up the sloppy bass common to cheap speakers. Warm, jazzy, yet still rocks. Lovely clean and dirty.

I forget what’s in the newish Laney Cub10 an HH or something, but I’ll likely swap it as well as it seems like I’ll be keeping it.

EDIT: HH Electronics - Wikipedia Apparently now owned by Laney.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

I like light weight, innifecient ceramic speakers.
Home recording, low volume applications.

Notably the Neo Creamback and Jupiter SC / Jensens C12Q.

I love the tone of Eminence, but the weight and efficiency of them is beyond my needs. Love most Celestions, but again, weight and efficiency are always a deterrent as well as I can’t get the Alnico’s to rip and roar at the volumes I use.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Does doing so digitally count


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

Budda said:


> Does doing so digitally count


If that's what floats your boat, sail it!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

MarkM said:


> If that's what floats your boat, sail it!


Definitely a more controlled environment for critical listening, unless you've taped off where you put your cab after every swap. Also a very good learning experience!


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

Budda said:


> Definitely a more controlled environment for critical listening, unless you've taped off where you put your cab after every swap. Also a very good learning experience!


The other day, I noticed that Celestion sells IR's of its own speakers. It's a smart move on their part.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Grab n Go said:


> I didn't know they made guitar speakers. What are they like?


Less shrill JBL copies (no tin dustcaps) or rather JBL inspired. More hifi, later cone breakup, better bass extension all like a JBL but not exactly the same tone profile. There were 2 models the ER123 and 124 (also a 15" and an 18" that was used in some Traynor and Sunn cabs as well as PA stuff). The 12s were used by Fender at some point - custom label and orange painted frames like with JBL previously, but I don't know what models or era (think it was a flash in the pan and probably even then a factory upgrade option vs base stock model) - vagely late 70s maybe early 80s. 



















The metal 'eye' dustcap in the example above I think is a replacement - sloppy glue job. The only other one I have seen has a similar (but not exactly the same ) dustcap, but was an obvious recone (the surround was black vs typical C-V red-orange) - people probably trying to make them more JBLish that way. Fender also did a custom OEM 15 from C-V (standard C-V logo dustcap).

Anything C-V made after about the mid-late 80s (ownership change IIRC) was garbage (no guitar speakers anymore at that point anyway) with cheap foam surrounds and they dropped the cast frames.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

RBlakeney said:


> I haven’t done a huge amount of speaker experiments, but have played with a few.
> i have an Evm 12l which should arrive tomorrow to put in the cab for my ceriatone hrm, to see if I like it more than the eminence delta that’s currently in it and sounds great as it is.
> I had 212 with vintage 30s that I didn’t like, so I swapped one of them for a scumback of some sort and it was great. I currently have a 212 with celestion black backs which I really like, I have a few of the thd vintage 10 inch speakers left which I have put in most of the tweed style amps I built, as well as changed the Jensen reissue In the tuxedo Princeton from this fella above me ^^



I'll be curious to hear what you think about the EV vs the Delta.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Granny Gremlin said:


> I'll be curious to hear what you think about the EV vs the Delta.


Edit: I’m working from home today, so I spent my lunch loading it into an extra 112 cab so that I can a/b them. After I’m done, ill Sort out what’s going where.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

I didn’t ab them because I got caught up playing the Evm. As of day 1 I definitely prefer the Evm to the delta pro, and seems to be a bit better suited to the amp. i think the delta would be great for a big, loud clean amp.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Grab n Go said:


> Is that the Eminence Delta 12A? How do you like it? That was a speaker I was considering, but tried a Deltalite instead.


Also I forgot to answer this I think, but yes. Delta pro 12a


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

This thread lit a fire under my ass to do a comparison between the stock HH speaker in the open back Laney Cub10 and the Cannabis Rex in the closed back Traynor cab that's more than twice the size. Too different to give fair results, but it was fun. They both sound great, but the big cab wins. Too bad I'll likely sell it with the YCV40 when it goes.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

A few of my faves.....

























The little guy?.....Eminence Lil Texas.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Granny Gremlin said:


> I'll be curious to hear what you think about the EV vs the Delta.


Both are very close in the low and mid range..
I would describe the Delta as having a flat response.
EV has more boost in the 2-4k range.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

loudtubeamps said:


> A few of my faves.....
> View attachment 397166
> 
> View attachment 397165
> ...


Very cool. What's the square magnet speaker?


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

loudtubeamps said:


> Both are very close in the low and mid range..
> I would describe the Delta as having a flat response.
> EV has more boost in the 2-4k range.


That tracks for me. I always found the Eminence Delta line a bit boring.

All (most) guitar speakers have an upper mid peak as part of their voicing. When they don't, guitarists tend to not like them as much. The Delta always struck me as more of a bass 12, but even there I'd take an EV.

Just wanted to see how my thoughts on this compared to others'.


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## ga20t (Jul 22, 2010)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Went back to Marsland 12s for guitar again (though I discovered some Marslands were better than others - big Mag Garnet spec ones especially)...


I recall you stating that you liked certain Marslands, making you the only person I've ever heard say that (LOL). I'll say one thing though, I have a set of large magnet ceramics in my '72 Revolution III, and I've found nothing to replace them. Was just playing it at volume again the other night and I finally figured out I should stop even trying. They kind of do everything right in that amplifier, and with no harshness (once you have it turned up a little).

I definitely want to find a couple more to see how they go with my Gnome, Rev I and Guitar Mate.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

ga20t said:


> I recall you stating that you liked certain Marslands, making you the only person I've ever heard say that (LOL).


There's a few more folks around here, I'm just the most vocal - about speakers in general.

The key is to find the spec you like - they all look the same barring magnet size and type - some cone /dustcap differences. There are some general rules of thumb, like the later in the 70s the shittier the small magnet ones got, especially in the ceramic period. None of the ones in Pepcos are that great (sometimes you get lucky and there's a bomb ass RSC/Jensen in there - usually the 15" only though). And with Traynor you can tell by the model - later low end and PA stuff will have garbage in them. Marslands used in Garnets have the Garnet spec stamped on the frame - a little vague but helpful. That code + looking at the cone type as confirmation is reliable though, once you've identified what you like.

Due to the wide variance in quality (the ones I took out of my Traynor 4x12 PA line arrays were pathetic; some of the magnets just fell off as I was unscrewling them - replaced them all with 1 EV and 1 Peavey Black Widow per side + 2 tuneable passive radiators I made out of those now useless Marsland frames), and I suspect, self-depricating bias that foreign (American; British) stuff is superior, they get a bad rap. Oh - and because Traynor, Garnets and especially Pepcos, were what young punk ass beginers got - used and abused, kept in cold damp basements and hot garages so even some of the good ones were all worn out if not trashed (*speakers are consumables just like tubes* - they ALL _eventually_ need a recone, it's just a function of usage hours and how hard they were driven on average.... this is why I shake my head at people paying insane amounts of money for vintage, original one piece paper cone/surround JBLs, and then have them shipped in inadequate packaging - #1 cause of VC rub - unless those were rarely used or with the Fender amp they were in not cranked past 3 ever, they're done - save your money and get one that has been professionally reconed, and recently, ideally directly from the reconer, who will pack them properly.... if you're in the GTA there's a good shop - avoid shipping altogether). The problem with Marslands is that reconing them, while possible (no exact parts to match but similar enough cones can be found; voicecoils are pretty Jenseny), is that the cost isn't worth it - you can buy yourself 2 more for the cost of a recone. Only if you can DIY it, and it's a bit of an art. I got myself a parts kit to learn on a Marsland 15 that's toast anyway, but it's a back burner project cuz I don't have a cab in need of it.

eta: Forgot to say, there were also some aftermarket upgrade models sold directly by Marsland. Most of these were for the hifi market, but there was some guitar stuff too like the Tallman line - eg the Lamplighters I mentioned earlier this thread, and I saw some others here recently (don't recall if it was a FS or NAD thread). Some of the fullrange hifi/PA stuff works well for guitar too but that's a roll of the dice (worth it if you come across them cheap).


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

loudtubeamps said:


> A few of my faves.....
> View attachment 397166
> 
> View attachment 397165
> ...


Those ATCs are serious. Never tried them for guitar though - only the 15s for bass.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

PA 75 .....easily handles 150 watts....amazing throw front to back.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

@Granny Gremlin 
I have a compact homemade pine cab loaded with 4 x 10" marslands from the late 70's....sounds amazing.
Not using it much these days....mostly for stage.
If you really like the Marsland 10's.....I would consider selling the quad either in or out of the cab?
Cheers...


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Granny Gremlin said:


> That tracks for me. I always found the Eminence Delta line a bit boring.
> 
> All (most) guitar speakers have an upper mid peak as part of their voicing. When they don't, guitarists tend to not like them as much. The Delta always struck me as more of a bass 12, but even there I'd take an EV.
> 
> Just wanted to see how my thoughts on this compared to others'.


The ATC PA 75 I have is very close to the Eminence Delta....l prefer a flatter response.
Works great in those instances where there is an over abundance of the fizzies associated with some pedal /amps that some players like to use. 
I have a background in recording engineering and still enjoy mixing on the old Yamaha NS 10 M's which are boringly flat as well.
Point being...you get out if them what you put into them....nothing more, nothing less.
Yadi...yadi


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Grab n Go said:


> Very cool. What's the square magnet speaker?


1980 Eminence 12"


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

When I got my tweed Princeton in 1976 or 77, I just hated the 8" Jensen in it. I replaced it with another 8" - a JBL 2110 - and have never regretted it one day. The 2110 (not made anymore, sadly) had more bandwidth, at both the top and bottom, and greater efficiency. Made those 5-6 puny watts louder.

Lucked into a mid-'60s Jensen C12R at a surplus/recycling place that I occasionally use the Princeton to power. Mostly I like - or at least buy - cheap speakers. I have a pair of made-for-Traynor-by-Eminence 10"-ers tha L&M was selling for [email protected], in a cab. I was trying to make a Feiten cab with inaccurate measurements, and ended up having to use a Weber 10" and Eminence 12" of some sort, because I couldn't fit a pair of 12s diagonally.

I picked up a quartet of 6.5" Eminence speakers at Parts Express, three years ago, that were made to go with those 5W "Footnote" amps to make an amplified pedalboard for retail distributors. They actually make a better bass practice amp than guitar-amp speakers. Very efficient and loud for their size,

Also put together a somewhat lightweight bass cab, with a longish port, using a quartet of old big-magnet Marsland 4 or 5" speakers. Good solid bass, that handles transient well because of the small lightweight cones.

Probably others, including some Eminence, that I've forgotten about. My old Heathkit TA-16 is apparently equipped with CTS 12" speakers of no particular model number...butloud.


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