# Shipping an amp from USA to Canada with UPS - EXPENSIVE



## dolphinstreet (Sep 11, 2006)

I bought a Fender Pro Junior for a good price from a guy in the States. I'm just wondering how UPS can get away with raping us Canadians? Shipping this tiny little amp was expensive enough, $80, and then when they dropped it off, they wanted another $93. $55 or something like that was their "brokerage fee", the other part were the normal things - Customs fee and Tax.

I just wonder what they really do for that $50 something dollars? Hand over a paper to Customs and they sign something perhaps? Seems like very, very easy money.

UPS actually called me and asked if I had a preferred broker for going through customs. Hell no, I don't even know how what this type of broker does and how to find one much cheaper than UPS. 

Sorry for the rant, but I just found it ridiculous. On top of it all, the amp fried a resistor when I plugged it and smoke started coming out of it. Perhaps something happened to the amp in transit, since it was working fine when it left the seller's place.

I will never use UPS for buying gear from USA again. Will the regular US Postal Service work for buying an amp from USA? I wonder if FedEx is cheaper than UPS for this type of stuff?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

This same frustration comes up in threads quite often.

I had a used amp head (about 35 lbs.) shipped from Alaska to Ontario by US Postal Service. No problem. 

Having to pay GST and PST seems to be a coin toss (PUN is intended....groan). Sometimmes I have won the the toss, sometimes not.

I would never ship via Fedex or UPS if it was a cross-border shipment.

Cheers

Dave


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

greco said:


> This same frustration comes up in threads quite often.
> 
> I had a used amp head (about 35 lbs.) shipped from Alaska to Ontario by US Postal Service. No problem.
> 
> ...


For private sales this is absolutely true.
Some of the bigger companies use expedited shipping from UPS or FedEx and the purchaser isn't left with a hefty fee. Two examples that come to mind (and I've experienced personally) are Carvin - Ships UPS to Canada but when you pay for shipping up front with them that's it. No fees at your door. Same goes for Rondo who ships FedEx to Canada. 
In a private sale using either of these companies prepare to get bent over! It's always best to go USPS for these.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Hamstrung said:


> For private sales this is absolutely true.
> Some of the bigger companies use expedited shipping from UPS or FedEx and the purchaser isn't left with a hefty fee. Two examples that come to mind (and I've experienced personally) are Carvin - Ships UPS to Canada but when you pay for shipping up front with them that's it. No fees at your door. Same goes for Rondo who ships FedEx to Canada.
> In a private sale using either of these companies prepare to get bent over! It's always best to go USPS for these.


Thanks for clarifying Hamstrung ........I was referring to private sales only and should have stated that.

Cheers

Dave


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## sivs (Aug 5, 2009)

I avoid getting stuff shipped to Canada vis UPS if at all possible. USPS is usually faster and cheaper, plus no crazy brokrage fee. I've learned that the hard way a few times...


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## dolphinstreet (Sep 11, 2006)

sivs said:


> I avoid getting stuff shipped to Canada vis UPS if at all possible. USPS is usually faster and cheaper, plus no crazy brokrage fee. I've learned that the hard way a few times...


Well, I am learning right now!  It sucks but that's how people learn sometimes - the hard way...


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

I've recently learned that it all depends on what method of shipping you choose. I can't remember exactly which is which but I called Fedex to clarify before having a watch shipped from the states. Fedex told me which method to request to avoid brokerage fees. I contacted the seller and that's the method the seller used. No problems. Just had to pay the regular duties and taxes. Having said all of that, I still prefer USPS for the "coin toss" on duties and taxes.


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## brimc76 (Feb 14, 2008)

I just had a chassis delivered from the US through USPS and paid just over $98 when it arrived. Most of it was tax - GST and PST plus $5.00 Canada Post border charges. I can imagine what it would have cost me through UPS.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Yup.. good ol pony express. I have been GPS shopping for my boat. West Marine has a sale on one I want. I phoned the Kingston store and was warned about the $50 possible brokerage fee if I bought it on line. $ 50 will get me to Kingston.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Too bad you hadn't asked here first. We could have warned you and saved you big time. And, yes, UPS are morally bankrupt. Of course, most large companies are. I hope they go bankrupt.


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

Just so you know, they do nothing for their "brokerage fee" 
They keep your paperwork on record for 5 years, and submit your paperwork to Customs. Which essentially is a copy of the paperwork on the front of the box. Tough stuff. Always, always USPS when crossborder shopping.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

riffboy76 said:


> Just so you know, they do nothing for their "brokerage fee"
> They keep your paperwork on record for 5 years, and submit your paperwork to Customs. Which essentially is a copy of the paperwork on the front of the box. Tough stuff. Always, always USPS when crossborder shopping.



just for future reference- anyone can act as their own broker. if the shipper (UPS or FedEX) ask you if you have a preferred broker, you simply say, "yes, i will act as my own broker". 
how this works is pretty simple and i have done it a few times myself already.
you have to obtain the paperwork for the shipment from the shipper (either by visiting their office or having them FAX or email it to you) then you take that paperwork with your receipt for the purchase of your item to your nearest Canada Customs office. Check the Blue Pages of your phone book for your local office. (usually at your nearest airport or land border crossing). Canada Customs will have you fill out an Importation Declaration form and pay any taxes (GST and PST) and any duty if applicable. then can ask to see your receipt as proof of the price paid for the item. if you bought over the internet, you can provide a copy of the Paypal confirmation or whatever method you paid with. be aware, that if you don't have the receipt, Canada Customs can refuse to clear the item until you provide one. they will calculate all amounts into Canadian Dollars.
sometimes they ask for the reciept, and sometimes they don't.
there are no "brokerage fees" required by Canada Customs.
Once you receive the Canada Customs clearance stamps on your paperwork, you return the papers to your shipper (either in person or by FAX etc) and the shipper then will deliver your item to your door with no additional "brokerage fees".

another method to avoid the brokerage fees is to use the air delivery service. FedEx and UPS only charge those fees on ground shipments. of course air delivery cost more up front.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Here we go, yet another "raped by UPS" thread. DO NOT ship with ANY private courier across the border - EVER. Period. It doesn't matter if it's UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc... they all have outlandish fees and lousy delivery practices.

The only acceptable way to ship across the border is through USPS/Canada Post. They charge you a flat rate of $5 for brokerage. You still pay the taxes though. 

If you live close enough to the Canada/US border, the best way is to find a parcel receiving place on the USA side that accepts packages and then just go down and pick it up yourself. I do this ALL the time. Oftentimes, companies will offer free shipping inside the USA or many times will only ship within the USA. It saves you a ton on shipping by doing it this way. There's a place just across the border where I am that accepts deliveries and then just charges $5 a package when you pick up. I just bring my printed receipts from the internet transaction and declare everything when I go back across. Most of the time, CBSA doesn't even bother checking if there's duty owed, they just calculate the GST/PST.

And +1 on the previous comments that sometimes Canada Post doesn't even bother collecting the fees or taxes. If the item is small enough to stuff in the mailbox or leave between the doors and doesn't require a signature on delivery, most often they will just leave it.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

as far as using USPS and Canada Post to ship items across border or anywhere for that matter, there are a few things to consider.
one is that both the USPS and Canada Post have dollar limits on the amount they will insure in the event of loss or damage.
i believe for USPS is $600.01 to $5000 (maximum liability is $5,000) $7.70 plus $1.00 per $100 or fraction thereof
over $600 in declared value and Canada Post is $1 for every $100 in value up to a maximum of $5000 coverage. 
if you are shipping a $5000 custom shop guitar from the USA to Canada by the post office and it arrives with a broken headstock, you will have a much harder time getting cash for your claim from Canada Post than from UPS or FEDEX. i also can say from personal experience that Canada Post are extremely slow and very uncooperative when dealing with claims for lost or damaged goods sent through the mail. 
it is always a buyer beware situation. do your homework and don't make assumptions.


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## LVSinfo (Jun 22, 2010)

Good info Six-String, you are absolutely right. Here is some more info with references that backs up what your saying and expands it a little.

If you have a CBSA office reasonable close to you, than you can pay the duties and taxes your self and avoid the brokerage fee. Here is how:

A courier need your permission to represent you as a broker. The authority for this is found in D1-6-1 http://www.cbsa.gc.ca/publications/d...d1-6-1-eng.pdf

"4. Any person who proposes to transact business with CBSA as the agent of another person is responsible for ensuring that the proper authority has been granted. The written authority is often referred to as an agency agreement or a power of attorney."

This means of course you always have the right to clear your goods yourself or using any broker you want. Generally couriers get permission to act as your broker when you sign for the goods, in fact the LVS (low value shipment) regulations specifically allow for them to do this, however they also give you the right to decline to use them.

Now I should mention the information I am referencing for this post is only LVS courier casual goods. That means the goods have to be valued at under $1600 Canadian and not be controlled, prohibited or regulated by an act of Parliament. To qualify as Casual the goods have to be for the personal use of an individual and not be commercial goods.

We find the regulations for LVS courier goods in D 17-4-0

http://www.cbsa.gc.ca/publications/d...17-4-0-eng.pdf

"1. The Courier Low Value Shipment (LVS) Program streamlines the reporting, release and accounting procedures for certain goods imported by courier. Couriers authorized by the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) to participate in the program may have qualifying goods released by presenting a cargo/release list to the CBSA. To qualify under this program the goods must:
(a) be valued at less than CAN$1,600; and
(b) not be controlled, prohibited or regulated by an Act of Parliament"

So what does LVS mean?

from D17-4-0 again

"11. The cargo/release list for authorized participants of the Courier LVS Program is to be used in place of individual cargo control and release documents for goods valued under CAN$1,600. The list must be presented to the CBSA by the courier before or as soon as the shipments arrive in Canada. It must contain a concise description of the LVS qualifying goods so that the border services officer can determine the admissibility of the goods."

So the courier gives customs information on the goods they are bringing in to Canada.

Next if the goods are not being released at the office they enter Canada at they can move inbond to the office of release. This is important to note because UPS will often argue that the goods have to be released at the office of arrival but this is not true and we know it is not true because the LVS regulations tell us so.

Again from D-17-4-0

"16. When Courier LVS goods arrive in Canada at an office other than the office of release, the in-bond movement of the shipments to the office of release is permitted, provided that the entire container or load is moved inland."

So the courier following these regulations moves your LVS parcel in bond eventually to a distribution centre near the importer. At this point the goods have not been accounted for, that is no duties and taxes have been paid yet, and the courier can not release them to the importer until they have.

So now the goods are in the UPS warehouse near your house and they bring them to your door. Lets see what the D 17-4-0 says about what happens next.

"Release and Accounting
54. Once the CBSA releases the casual goods, the courier delivers the shipment to the importer. The duties and taxes owing are paid by the importer to the courier. Afterwards, the courier or its agent accounts for the goods on an “F” type entry which is presented to the CBSA before the 24th day of the next month, with the duties and taxes payable by the end of that month."

Ah so you pay the courier your duties and taxes (and brokerage fee), receive your goods and then the courier goes ahead and acts as your broker and pays the duties and taxes with an F type entry the next month.

So what happens if you decide you don't want to pay the duties and taxes and brokerage fee to the courier? Surely the regulations state that the goods have to go back to the office of arrival right? and you have to pay the duties and taxes at that office right?That's what UPS told my friend. Wrong.

D 17-4-0

"56. If an importer wishes to account for the goods himself or herself, the courier does not release the shipment to the importer but holds the goods until the importer presents satisfactory proof that the appropriate duties and taxes have been paid directly to the CBSA. The importer must note the unique shipment identifier number and contact the courier to determine where the goods are held in a bonded warehouse until the release is effected."

So the courier hangs on to the goods which are still in-bond at their warehouse. The courier must provide the importer with information as to where the goods are, what the unique shipment identifier number is (they would have provided this to customs earlier as part of the cargo/release list noted in section 11). Now you the importer can take that information along with a bill or invoice from the shipper to your nearest customs office and get a B15 done for free. Customs will do all the work. Take that back to UPS and then as noted in section 56 of D17-4-0 they must release the goods to you.

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Now simply put if a courier, say UPS, arrives at your door and you refuse to pay the duties and taxes, you want to do this:

Ask them where the goods are going now, which will be the nearby warehouse. (they may threaten to take them back to the border warehouse but this does not make sense from a economical sense on their part, is not supported by the LVS regulations and even if they do you can still clear your goods at the office closest to you)

Next ask for the unique shipment identifier number.

Print out a copy of the invoice from the shipper (most online shippers email this to you if not request a copy after you place your order)

Take these three pieces of information with you to your nearest CBSA office and ask for a B15.

Return to UPS with your B15, which will show you paid your duties and taxes and receive your goods.

If they give you any kind of hassle print out a copy of D 17-4-0 to support your right to clear the goods yourself and show that the goods do not have to be accounted for at the border entry office.

Armed with this information my friend was able to get a number from UPS that he brought to customs and was able to get UPS to accept a B15 and release his goods.

Hope folks that are forced to use a courier find this useful. Knowledge is power. By the way all the customs regulations can be found on the CBSA website at D memoranda


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

LVSinfo, well thanks for the support and further detailed info.
as i say, the key here is information and knowledge.
don't make assumptions. there is nothing wrong with importing a guitar or musical related gear, just be sure you know what the costs are before you commit to purchase. sometimes those USA prices look unbelievably low, but once you figure in the shipping, taxes and currency exchange, things might look different.
even with all that, there are some good deals out there. but it always pays to do your homework first and avoid expensive surprises.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> Yup.. good ol pony express. I have been GPS shopping for my boat. West Marine has a sale on one I want. I phoned the Kingston store and was warned about the $50 possible brokerage fee if I bought it on line. $ 50 will get me to Kingston.


Dont forget, some GPS' being sold in the US may not have Canadian maps preloaded.


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