# Matchless HC30 v. Bad Cat Black Cat v. Bad Cat Cub 40R



## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Hey Everyone,

I'm slowly falling into the whole Matchless vs. Bad Cat rabbit hole these days. Years ago, I was able to play through a DC30 that sounded absolutely glorious, but I've never been in a situation to buy one, and nowadays, they're even harder to find and command some pretty crazy prices. In comes Bad Cat, and I'm wondering if anyone has any direct experience between the Matchless HC30 vs. Bad Cat Black Cat. 

With that in mind, the Black Cat is also getting harder to come by these days (yes, I did see the one that sold here a while back), and I'm wondering how the Black Cat compares to the Cub 40R? I understand that they share some of the same topology, but I'm curious how the Cub stacks up against the Black Cat, and maybe even against the HC30? Thanks!


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

I'd get a HC-30R with the 212 cab. That generally resolves any issues with tube rattle or microphonics that you might get with the combo, and the weight is pretty hideous. I've owned two HC-30's, a DC30, Hot Cat and Black Cat and the C-30 has been the keeper.

I'd get the reverb, its excellent- and I love the channel switching on the newer models as well.

The thing I like best about the C-30 is the active EQ on the 12AX7 channel-you'll can tune it with pretty much every guitar, pedal etc. Its super clear but not grating and has superb touch sensitivity-it is very much the AC-30 sound, but with more tightness and range. The EF86 channel is fat and dirty-kind of Marshall crossed with AC-30-again with a lot of range and superb touch sensitivity. Both are channels good with pedals, but I prefer the 12AX7 channel for that.

Downsides? It is bright, you can really hear noisy guitars and pedals (though there are so many EQ options between the cut control and the active tone controls that it isn't really an issue). The combo had some rattling of the EL84's. You can get some microphonic in the combo at high volumes as well. It is very loud, the master tames it a bit-but it sounds best with the master up just a bit, around 10 o clock or above. It gets a bit fizzy when attenuated like most EL84 amps-I don't mind 3-5 dB but it loses a lot of its magic when you attenuate it more than that.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

They are all three great Amps. I have a k master black cat now, sold my 4 hole black cat, have a HC-30 and I sold a non K master cub a way while ago.

Honestly I play my black cat a lot more cause it’s glorious but when I lug the matchless rig to the jam spot it’s glorious as well to me it all depends what you want to do, play out, play at home, record or all three etc.
One thing I will say is if you sell one to get the other you will be underwhelmed when you get the other expecting a huge upgrade but will be happy with subtle differences in the treble and cut and low

I find the black cat has the ability to get a little more thump without breaking apart with some extra dirt and I prefer it.

For some reason I also think C-30’s and P90’s or single coils are just a super Match and the ultimate tone so who knows.


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## BadHiwatt (May 9, 2017)

I've owned Bad Cats and now a Matchless. IMO, if you want a Matchless DC-30, get it. The Bad Cat amps have their own things going on, for better or worse.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

The HC30 is high on the list, that's for sure. I'm not averse to bright amps, having firm roots in the AC30 camp. I'm just looking for something like that - but with "more", hence why I'm down this rabbit hole.

On the other hand; sadly, I have yet to play a Bad Cat, and I don't know of anyone who has played one either, let alone owned one. I love the idea of the K Master, which makes a lot of sense to me. I don't intend on gigging this amp, as I have plenty of other amps I'm happy to lug around with me. This would purely be a home amp used for jams and recording, so the weight and size don't really bother me. I like the idea of getting a head version because I have a few cabs I could match it up with, and would like to avoid the microphonic issues I've had in the past with other combos.

Anyone with any experience with the Cub 40R care to throw in their $0.02?


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

TWRC said:


> Years ago, I was able to play through a DC30 that sounded absolutely glorious


Stick to that DC30 that you first tried. I saw Colin James a number of times in the mid to late 90s and he could make that amp sound superb.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Paul Running said:


> Stick to that DC30 that you first tried. I saw Colin James a number of times in the mid to late 90s and he could make that amp sound superb.


Why? Have you made direct comparisons between black cats and c-30’s?

C-30’s are amazing amps and also people now want 4K+ for them. It might not be the best money spent for everyone.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

I believe that with most amp designers, their early model designs are the keepers.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Paul Running said:


> I believe that with most amp designers, their early model designs are the keepers.


I guess we see things different. I find the updated and refined circuits are most often better improvements on the original. Not always but most often


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

I believe that most commercial amp designers start out in their basement or garage, in a hobby mode. When somebody wants to market their design, the de-railing begins...I don't believe it was any different for Mark Sampson.
Leo Fender is a classic example IMO...ultimately, economics controls the design.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Paul Running said:


> I believe that most commercial amp designers start out in their basement or garage, in a hobby mode. When somebody wants to market their design, the de-railing begins...I don't believe it was any different for Mark Sampson.
> Leo Fender is a classic example IMO...ultimately, economics controls the design.


Except Mark Sampson went to bad cat after leaving matchless and brought forth what he thought were his improvements to HIS C-30 circuit. So maybe for this an exception but I do understand what your saying for sure.


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## BadHiwatt (May 9, 2017)

As I said before, I have owned 2 different Bad Cat amps and now own a DC-30. One amp is not better than the other, BUT don't buy a Bad Cat if you want a DC-30 and don't buy a Matchless if you want a Bad Cat. They have slight, but noticeable differences. I wanted a DC-30, but wanted to save money, so I tried Bad Cats. In the end, I wasted money and ended up with a DC-30.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

The base for many of his designs, the DC30


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

tdotrob said:


> Except Mark Sampson went to bad cat after leaving matchless and brought forth what he thought were his improvements to HIS C-30 circuit. So maybe for this an exception but I do understand what your saying for sure.


...and Leo went to Musicman and "improved" his designs on the Blackface amps...or did he? 

Matchless and BadCat are both great. Different, but great. I wouldn't recommend anyone who is chasing a tone they heard from a DC-30 to go and buy a BadCat. Close, but not the same. I also wouldn't tell someone in love with an AC30 to buy a DC-30 either. 

C-30's can be had for within $1000 of BadCat prices. If that's what you want, go get it. The $1000 spread out over the course of your life won't make a hill of beans really. That's assuming you have the cash. 

All that being said -having owned a C-30, Clubman, AC30 and CubIIR they're all wonderful and can scratch that itch from various angles. But if you're chasing an old sound, just get that amp.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

TimH said:


> ...and Leo went to Musicman and "improved" his designs on the Blackface amps...or did he?
> 
> Matchless and BadCat are both great. Different, but great. I wouldn't recommend anyone who is chasing a tone they heard from a DC-30 to go and buy a BadCat. Close, but not the same. I also wouldn't tell someone in love with an AC30 to buy a DC-30 either.
> 
> ...


Yep they are all different I mean they are all p2p and different amp to amp let alone model.

Improvement is opinion but companies like Victoria and guys like Bogner and Wizard dude, aren’t making equal to or worse than the original amps.

Music pushes technological and style advances or else we’d all be playing the same few one channel amps.

I want a good clean channel and the pissed off 800 thing that can do subdued as well as in your face in the same amp so I buy a shiva, with built in boost options, good reverb, channel switch, a killer loop and master volume.

seems like improvement to me. I want an AC30 style with more reliability(in the day) and I get DC-30.

I want a DC-30 that has little smoother treble with a little more bass and a much better taper on the master volume and doesn’t absolutely fall apart so easy when pushed a bit more into overdrive so I get a Black Cat. Those all seem improvements to me but a lot of people will still prefer the original.

Just my opinion is all. I respect what everyone else thinks too.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I have yet to play a Bad Cat and have been really interested in their offerings and the model that seems to interest me the most is the Black Cat. I've read a lot of comparisons between the Black Cat and C30, and know that there are similarities amongst the two models. 

I have an old AC30 that isn't going anywhere, but I'd like to find something that can compliment it and maybe address a few things that have always bugged me about AC30s. I'd like to find something that has bigger and tighter low end, but still retains that Vox chime. The only other amps that I have personally played that does that has been the Top Hat King Royale, and the DC30.  As much as I would like to own an HC30, I want to be open to trying a couple other amps before making that decision. On the list are the Divided by 13 RSA31, and the Bad Cat Black Cat (and Cub 40R to an extent). 

On the topic of improvements, I like the refinements found in the Black Cat such as the independent bass and treble EQ in the EF86 channel, and their K-Master MV control. I Figure those features can't hurt to have, so Bad Cat definitely have my attention.

Ultimately it's great to hear that people have had great experiences with both brands, and it seems that I can't go wrong either way, so I must be on the right track! 😎


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

U


TWRC said:


> I have yet to play a Bad Cat and have been really interested in their offerings and the model that seems to interest me the most is the Black Cat. I've read a lot of comparisons between the Black Cat and C30, and know that there are similarities amongst the two models.
> 
> Ultimately, I have an old AC30 that isn't going anywhere, but I'd like to find something that can compliment it and maybe address a few things that have always bugged me about AC30s. I'd like to find something that has bigger and tighter low end, but still retains that Vox chime. The only other amps that I have personally played that does that has been the Top Hat King Royale, and the DC30. As much as I would like to own an HC30, I want to be open to trying a couple other amps before making that decision. On the list are the Divided by 13 RSA31, and the Bad Cat Black Cat (and Cub 40R to an extent).
> 
> ...


Ultimately what you said there is all that matters, you can’t go wrong either way with any of the Amps you listed, they are all killer in their own way and you’ll pick the one that had the features important to you. I think it’s such a great mindset to have as a musician over this is better than than Internet hear say.


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