# How similar is a Garnet Herzog to my modded Garnet Gnome?



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

I wanted more dirt out of my Gnome so I removed the negative feedback and bypassed the tone stack by lifting the 10k resistor on the bass pot. It is a freaking monster now!

Last night I ran the modded Gnome into my attenuator (set to load), then from the attenuator's line out into an eq pedal, then out to the input of my big amp (Traynor Bass Master). It sounds really nice but got me wondering if all these components and mods are basically replicating a Herzog. I am learning to read schematics but it is slow going, so I was wondering if anyone can tell me how close my modded amp is to a Herzog.

If what I have is similar to a Herzog, I will most likely order a Herzog from Garnet and put my Gnome closer to stock. It would be great to have all of this in one self contained unit, but if the Herzog is quite different I will keep using my current system since it sounds so good. Almost all the Herzog youtube videos (quite frankly) sound like complete crap but I believe the Herzog and Gnome are not that different so I am curious about how close they can sound.

In the spirit of substandard demo's here a short recording of my "Gnome Herzog" 

I don't have good recording equipment (mic into cheap line 6 usb device) but this will give you an idea. It sounds way better in the room. BTW, this is a Strat with low output Lollar pickups.

The first two songs are pretty heavily distorted. For the last tune (Zep) I turned down the volume on the Gnome so that you can hear how it can do lower gain stuff too.

Gnome Herzog Demo by Steve Co
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=13498050


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The two drawings suggest they are not that far apart. Note that the Gnome includes bias tremolo, where the Herzog has no tremolo. The Herzog lacks any tonestack, resulting in a hotter preamp signal. The drawings here indicate a 6L6 power tube for the Gnome and 6V6 for the Herzog, but as has been indicated in another thread, the Gnome sometimes came with a 6V6. Finally, the Herzog has an output transformer of unspecified specs, relative to the Gnome. I presume it was selected to provide an appropriate impedance match to the output volume pot, but I have no idea about its particular specs, or whether those specs play a role in its tone.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

mhammer said:


> Finally, the Herzog has an output transformer of unspecified specs, relative to the Gnome. I presume it was selected to provide an appropriate impedance match to the output volume pot, but I have no idea about its particular specs, or whether those specs play a role in its tone.


We know exactly what that OT is: the exact same one as in the Banshee (both part# 145A189):










Not designed for line out or a 1 meg load (i.e. the pot value/the input Z of a downstream amp input), but rather an 8 ohm speaker (hence the dummy load on the speaker jack in the HZog schem). 6V6 versions of the Gnome probably used the same OT as the Banshee vs the part listed in the Gnome schem above (6L6), but maybe not. Either way should be fine as it too is designed for speaker load, just 4 Ohm vs 8 (change the dummy load resistor value to 4 Ohm vs 6 or 10 depending on which HZog schem you look at).

Also remember, both the Banshee and the Herzog are essentially a Fender Champ circuit with some tweaks, cause Gar was like that.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

So is the Banshee basically a Gnome without tremolo?


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

mhammer said:


> So is the Banshee basically a Gnome without tremolo?


Yes. I've owned both. I believe the Banshee was cheaper because it skipped the tremolo.

Thanks so much for all the info and help above. I think my Gnome sounds a bit smoother because most of the Herzog clips sound more ragged and fuzzed out. It may be my attenuator that is making the difference but I am not sure. It also seems that most Herzog demos are going for max fuzz. Personally, I have no desire for the American Woman tone or a complete fuzzed out mess. I also don't hear extremely ragged tones coming out of Gordie Johnson all the time, so I am hoping the Herzog has more to offer than max fuzz.

I was asking about circuit differences to see if my attenuator or circuit differences could explain the differences I am hearing. The new RI Herzogs do have a tone pot now so perhaps it is closer to my bypassed tone stack Gnome.

TG


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