# Tru-OiL ...suggestions for finishing a Tele body



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I would like to finish a swamp ash Tele body with Tru-Oil (T-O). The resultant finish needs to be matte/satin only .....not high gloss. 
I have done a fair amount of woodworking and finishing in the past, but never with T-O.

I have read about the need for a filler for a mirror-link finish. I do not want to use a filler.

Reading several articles on the internet has yielded many opinions. This is a basic procedure taken form the Tele forum:

1. Sand the wood real smooth. 
2. Apply thin coat of Tru Oil and allow to dry for a day.
3. Take off sheen with some steel wool.
4. Reapply thin coat of Tru Oil and allow to dry for a day.
5. Repeat above until you are satisfied with results.

Questions

What grit of paper would you stop sanding with before the initial coat of T-O?
Some say 220 or so and some say 320 ...or higher/finer

What do you use to apply the T-O? Some say cloth, some say sponge.

Is steel wool (0000) or 600 grit wet/dry better between coats? 

Is 24 hours enough for drying? Is humidity much of a factor for drying.



Any other suggestions/comments? 

Everything is greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Dave


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Gosh, I can't remember how I did my neck, but let's see. I used my finger to apply it. I can't remember the wait time but I am sure I used 600 grit between coats and after the final coat I rubbed it down with a well used and washed green scotch brite pad. I try to keep steel wool away from my guitars. I have used it and now I am just trying to get rid of it. The local NAPA store has Norton sandpaper in stock with grits up to 2000. 

Tru-oil is pretty easy as I recall. Forgiving of mistakes with a bit of sanding. I just went by the instructions on the bottle.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks Jim. 

I know that you are very knowledgable and experienced with woodworking and finishing...your reply/help is much appreciated 

While we are on this topic, a friend (and forum member) GTmaker is also going to be finishing an ash Tele body with T-O.
His Tele was originally finished with non-wax shellac. Any suggestions for the amount of sanding needed (and suggested grits) to get through the layer of shellac to the degree needed to apply the Tru-Oil? I have no idea as to the extent that shellac "penetrates" the wood. His guitar body is "regular" ash as apposed to "swamp ash" ...if that makes any real difference.

Cheers

Dave


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## bluesguitar1972 (Jul 16, 2011)

where do you buy the Tru Oil? Was thinking of getting a body and doing this also.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

bluesguitar1972 said:


> where do you buy the Tru Oil? Was thinking of getting a body and doing this also.


Lee Valley

http://www.leevalley.com/en/home/Stores.aspx

They appear to have a store in Halifax

Here is the product page from Lee Valley:

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=67594&cat=1,190,42942,67594

Cheers

Dave


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## bluesguitar1972 (Jul 16, 2011)

Thanks Dave


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Shellac is one of the most forgiving finishes ever. In fact, you have eaten it if you have had M&M's, or smarties, of a variety of medicines. One of it's qualities is that it is alcohol based, so it can be used as a sealer or grain filler underneath just about any top coat (non-waxed is important). While it may not be the toughest finish around, it is easy to fix as later layers will melt into what has previously been applied. Just don't spill your drinks on it, alcohol will "melt" it too.

Now as far as an ash bodied tele that has shellac on it already..... I would actually put a few more coats of shellac on it as ash is very porous. Get the grain filled with shellac (rubbing out with some 4H pumice will help, but it is not required) by putting on coats and sanding back with 400 grit wet/dry. I use olive oil as a lubricant when french polishing, so I would use that while wet sanding also. Once the pores are all filled nice and level (check under a raking light) my final sanding would be with 600 grit wet/dry (again with the oil). I would sand until everything is level and smooth and beautiful, and then put on the top coat of your choosing. 

Personally, my strat build is just shellac on the body, french polished on....if you look up "Daves guitar building" on you tube, he builds an acoustic and has a few episodes dedicated to french polishing that is worth watching (actually, the whole build is worth watching). 

Good luck and have fun!


edit: BTW, you can't find alcohol in Canada for shellac. You usually use denatured alcohol of a high percentage that is not legal for sale here. So I used Methyl Hydrate which can be had at your local hardware store.

Another bit of trivia: There is no such thing as 100% alcohol. As it is distilled it will absorb water from the atmosphere. That is why rubbing alcohol in it's highest concentration is labelled 99%.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Now as far as an ash bodied tele that has shellac on it already..... I would actually put a few more coats of shellac on it as ash is very porous. Get the grain filled with shellac (rubbing out with some 4H pumice will help, but it is not required) by putting on coats and sanding back with 400 grit wet/dry. I use olive oil as a lubricant when french polishing, so I would use that while wet sanding also. Once the pores are all filled nice and level (check under a raking light) my final sanding would be with 600 grit wet/dry (again with the oil). I would sand until everything is level and smooth and beautiful, *and then put on the top coat of your choosing. *


Jim, Thanks for the detailed response. I am helping GTmaker with the finishing aspects of his Tele as I have more experience (even though it was almost a century ago...LOL) with woodworking and finishing.

No disrespect for your shellac/french polishing concept, but I have bought the Tru-Oil and "special" steel wool (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=20062&cat=1,190,43040)
for this project and would like to use these products and share with GTmaker. We are not trying to achieve a high gloss finish. I will not hesitate to change the steel wool for 400 grit wet/dry, if I/we dislike using the steel wool. 

Just to clarify my understanding...we can sand down the shellac until smooth and then add coats of Tru-Oil (without any concern) over the base coat of shellac...Correct?

Again, Thanks Jim

Cheers

Dave


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Yes, if you like you can just sand down the shellac and make everything smooth and even and then apply tru-oil.

Tru-oil (gun stock oil) is just a boiled linseed oil (blo) or a polymerized tung oil (very similar...polymerized just means it went through a heating process so it will dry after applying) that has been modified with varnish. There are dozens of old "recipes" for finish that involve some sort of oil mixed with varnishes, thinners of some sort, and/or wax....or some combination of some of those.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks for the answer Jim. 

Again, please don't be offended that I want to try the Tru-Oil approach in preference to the French polishing....it is just that I have already purchased everything I need.

I remember using Danish oil finishes and Watco brand products many, many years ago. 

Did you ever try the finish that called "Liming" with white paint?
This is the basics:
http://www.ehow.com/how_2079048_lime-finish-wood.html

I did this on maple tables with glass tops...looked good IMHO

This is more or less the design I used...minus the cross pieces on the underside.










Cheers

Dave


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I am in no way offended by your choice of finish. On the contrary, I am happy to see that you know what you want and are pursuing the means to get it. I think it is great!

I have not tried liming, looks interesting. Thanks for the link.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Just out of curiosity... what stops you guys from buying a couple rattle cans of lacquer and spraying?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Jimmy_D said:


> Just out of curiosity... what stops you guys from buying a couple rattle cans of lacquer and spraying?


Being old and stubborn?


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Well I ask because one thing I've always noticed with almost every "woodworking project" including a lot of guitars, is that there are so many that have everything except a really good finish... the thing about that is - that in woodworking the finish can make or break the piece, and in my experience it's pretty well impossible to get what I consider to be an instrument quality finish with oil. About grain filling, it's dead easy and with a lot of woods if you don't fill you'll always have open grain.

I know tru-oil is supposed to give the best results but at the end of the day the reason lacquer is and was used in woodworking is that it's the best wood finish with the least amount of work, it's forgiving, easy to use and it's easily reversible/repairable.

One day you should just grab a scrap of wood and a can of clear lacquer (a good one like Mohawk) and just start building coats, one or two a day for a couple of weeks, let it harden up and then wet sand it. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at what you can achieve with little work, it would seem you have all the skills to pull off a full on lacquer finish and that will complement your work.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Maybe so, in fact probably. But sometimes a fella wants to be able to feel the grain as well as see it, and wood filler with lacquer over top can provide a visually pleasing finish with minimal effort, but not achieve the tactile goals. And a niece piece of ash can feel great on the fingertips, sometimes. (I said _ash_, guys, *ASH*) :sSig_Idontgetit:


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Jim DaddyO said:


> I use *olive oil as a lubricant *when french polishing, so I would use that while wet sanding also. Once the pores are all filled nice and level (check under a raking light) my final sanding would be with 600 grit wet/dry (again with the oil).


A question about the use of *olive oil* with wet sanding. What do you use to remove the olive oil between coats ....anything special or just elbow grease and a rag?

Cheers

Dave


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Jimmy_D said:


> Just out of curiosity... what stops you guys from buying a couple rattle cans of lacquer and spraying?


the reason i like using oil is because it can be done very simply indoors.
spraying lacquer, at least for me, involves hanging the thing outside in a tree someplace,
then letting it gas off outdoors.
its not that hard really,
but the oil can be applied anywhere, anytime.
the fact that tru-oil feels great is a nice bonus.

- - - Updated - - -



greco said:


> A question about the use of *olive oil* with wet sanding. What do you use to remove the olive oil between coats ....anything special or just elbow grease and a rag?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


ive used naptha- but i normally only wet sand after the final coat.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

When you french polish the oil keeps to the surface, and when using it as a lube while sanding a finish, it stays on top too. The final coats of french polish are done without oil, and a very light cut of shellac (1/2# cut) and is called "spiriting off", which cleans the last bits on oil off (alcohol is a good cleaner). Any type of thinner/turpentine/spirits/naptha will clean off oil residue from wet sanding, just make sure it is compatible with the finish you are using.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

fraser said:


> I've used naphtha- but i normally only wet sand after the final coat.


I am assuming that you used the *naphtha with Tru-Oil *(and not something else) and had no problems? Just concerned about Jim DaddyO's warning re: compatibility.
Thanks for clarifying.

Again, thanks for your contributions Jim DaddyO...much appreciated!

Cheers

Dave


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

greco said:


> I am assuming that you used the *naphtha with Tru-Oil *(and not something else) and had no problems? Just concerned about Jim DaddyO's warning re: compatibility.
> Thanks for clarifying.
> 
> Again, thanks for your contributions Jim DaddyO...much appreciated!
> ...


yup- naptha is cool with dried tru-oil.
i think what jim was saying is that some types of products can harm or remove the finish.
that depends on the product and finish though.
like you wouldnt want to use acetone to clean a nitro finish- etc.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks fraser. Much appreciated!

Cheers

Dave


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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

Oil not the best choice, it will wear off and you will end up with no options other than refinishing with clear lacquer or a urethane of some kind only to have it turn out blotchy from the oil in the wood pores.Best to start on your fresh wood with a pint of lacquer and brush it on, a coat a day and sand between coats after the first two or three coats which will act as a grain filler. Miss a day or two, no problem. Laquer will always bite into the last coat. You will not fill the grain with a spray can. Brush across the grain the first few coats to fill thoses bigger pores.first sanding 280 - 320 grit / drysecond sanding 320 - 600 / dryafter final coat you could rub with an automotive polish or leave it.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Bastille day said:


> Oil not the best choice, *it will wear off *and you will end up with *no options* other than refinishing with clear lacquer or a urethane of some kind.....


How long will it take to *wear off* several coats of Tru-Oil? (I am 64 years old)

*Another option* is to put on some new coats of Tru-Oil...Yes?

Cheers

Dave


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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

greco said:


> How long will it take to *wear off* several coats of Tru-Oil? (I am 64 years old)
> 
> *Another option* is to put on some new coats of Tru-Oil...Yes?
> 
> ...


I haven't much experience with oil but it would depend on how much you are rubbing up against it. I always topcoated with lacquer when I refinished furniture. Easy to remove dust particles and othe imperfections ect. with lacquer. Not so with polyurethane.

An applied oil may also stain your clothes.

If you have already applied the oil, add a clear topcoat of some kind, the manufacturer can recommend an appropriate topcoat which is compatable with the oil you applied.

If not, take your ash body, fill the pores, you can't mess it up experimenting with the filler. Finish off with 280-320 grit dry. If you choose not to go with the "natural" look and want to stain it, use some extra pieces of clear ash to find an appropriate stain. Minwax has a "natural" stain which may look nice on ash giving it a "golden" tone. Or just try applying your topcoat over the natural ash and see what it looks like. 

Let the stain dry at least 24 hours before topcoating with what-ever you use for a top coat.

If you went with a pore filler, you could finish the body off with lacquer spray cans. 

The smallest tin of stain is enough as you only apply one coat with a cloth rag.

I would experiment with an extra piece of ash first to see how the filler and stain work.


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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

One other thing, don't slop the stain on, it can get deep into your pores without a filler.

I always brushed my stain on, rubbing with a cloth as I went.

Minwax stain is almost fool-proof, gel and other stains can troublesome.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks Bastille day.

I will not be using any stain.

I have used various forms of oil finishes in the past (never Tru-Oil until now).
Wearing off or staining of clothes has never been a problem.

Cheers

Dave


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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

greco said:


> Thanks Bastille day.
> 
> I will not be using any stain.
> 
> ...


ok............

At least get a clear topcoat on it to prevent stuff like sweat from getting into the pores.

Lacquer is best but a quality polyurethane is better than nothing.

Dry time to repair mistakes on polyurethane can be several days.

Dry time on lacquer is a few hours.

Put a couple coats of lacquer on first to get a nice base so your first sanding does not rub through on the edges. You can also double coat the edges when spraying.

If you have no dirt in your topcoat, a fine automotive 3M scuff pad can be used in place of sand paper. They are easier on the corners and edges and come in different grits. 

I believe the grey one will work for you, the red one may be to harsh, you just want to rough up the topcoat, not sand through it.


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## nnieman (Jun 19, 2013)

Hey bastille day, you do know that tru oil is a varnish right? It's not actually an oil product.
http://www.guitarify.com/2012/07/tru-oil-as-a-guitar-finish/
http://www.mandolinluthier.com/Hfinish-tru-oil.htm

And there's no need to clear coat over it, it'll be just fine.
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-hom...el-art-deco-themed-lap-steel.html#post3556738
Lots of guitars have been finished with just tru oil.

Nathan


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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

nnieman said:


> Hey bastille day, you do know that tru oil is a varnish right? It's not actually an oil product.
> http://www.guitarify.com/2012/07/tru-oil-as-a-guitar-finish/
> http://www.mandolinluthier.com/Hfinish-tru-oil.htm
> 
> ...


I did research it, appears to be made for gun stocks and wooden tools but also recommended for musical instruments. And once applied, a topcoat would not be necessary or recommended. To thick and rubbery for a guitar body in my opinion but better than nothing.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Bastille day said:


> Too thick and rubbery for a guitar body in my opinion but better than nothing.


How many coats would be needed for Tru-Oil to be too thick and rubbery?

Cheers

Dave


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

here is my sample of a real nice ash body (supplied by fellow member "nnieman") and finished by me with 5 coats of Tru-Oil..
There are many words that I could use to desribe this finish but "thick and rubbery" are not 2 of them.
I'm thinkng pretty cool looking for a start.

G.


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## nnieman (Jun 19, 2013)

Looking good Gino

I have never found tru oil to be thick and rubbery, but I don't ever put it on thick either.
I wipe it on very thin, and sand level every-so-often (after like 4 coats).
I think the most I would put on would be 10, 12 (keeping in mind, VERY thin coats).
Let it dry and then sand/polish as necessary (depending on quality of existing finish and desired sheen).

Nathan


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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

greco said:


> How many coats would be needed for Tru-Oil to be too thick and rubbery?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


Not exactly sure Dave, but from my experience with these types of top-coats, 4-5 coats should be sufficient and best if completely dry before adding another coat every time.

Where as lacquer is a thinner product therefore many more coats are possible.

I found this link that explains the positives and negatives of tru-oil.

http://guitarsbyfender.yuku.com/topic/2788


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks for the link.

I would *never* consider putting Tru-Oil on a fretboard.

Cheers

Dave


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I did my neck (incl. fret board) in Tru Oil on my build, thin coats and sanded back (400, 600, scotch brite I think).....a few years later and it is still in great shape and has a nice feel to it. Even unfinished you would likely get 20 years out of a body....is that long enough?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Jim DaddyO said:


> I did my neck (incl. fret board) in Tru Oil on my build, thin coats and sanded back (400, 600, scotch brite I think).....a few years later and it is still in great shape and has a nice feel to it. Even unfinished you would likely get 20 years out of a body....is that long enough?


Thanks Jim...I am pleased that you pointed this out. 

Admittedly, I would have been very hesitant to use Tru-Oil on a fretboard. However, I'm not sure why. Your experience certainly validates it as a reasonable finish to consider.

Cheers

Dave

- - - Updated - - -

Thanks for the comments. 

Just in case anyone is interested, *Tru-Oil can be thinned with mineral spirits.

*Cheers

Dave



nnieman said:


> Looking good Gino
> 
> I have never found tru oil to be thick and rubbery, but I don't ever put it on thick either.
> I wipe it on very thin, and sand level every-so-often (after like 4 coats).
> ...


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

In my experience, and what I garner from conversations with other wood workers, oil finishes are pretty limited in what they are made of. Most are either Tung Oil, or Linseed oil. Either are not very durable as they are and they will not harden either. If you polymerize them (heat 'em up, as in "boiled linseed oil) then they will harden. The biggest difference in oil finishes, weather it is Danish oil, or Watco, or antique oil, or what ever name they put on it is in additives to the oil. Recipes for oil finishes can include one or more of: turpentine, thinner, wax, bees wax, mineral oil and/or varnishes. Tru-oil, which is gun stock oil, is just another recipe within the family of oil finishes, it just so happens that their recipe turned out to be a very durable one.


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