# Early 80's Blackface Fenders



## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

Anyone have any opinions on these? Theres a blackface Deluxe Reverb (not a re-issue, but one from the early 80's) on eBay right now that no one seems to be touching @ $700:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fender-1980-Del...286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:4|65:10|39:1|240:1318

The reviews on this amp on Harmony Central for the most part are glowing. I'm not sure why the lack of love?


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

Is that one of the Deluxe Reverb II's???


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Ripper said:


> Is that one of the Deluxe Reverb II's???


Transitional, pre-Rivera, according to the ad. Pull boost disabled, so modded.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

FWIW, the absolute best sounding smallish amp I _ever_ owned was one of these late '80-'81's DR's. I've had about 4 DR's over the years, including an unmolested BF, and the late-period SF smoked it. Same was true of the 6 different PR's I've had. For some reason, this period of ampage in Fender's history is largely overlooked. Perhaps it's the "pull-boost" feature but, to the best of my knowledge, it's _completely_ out of the circuit unless engaged. 

I was looking at the very same amp. It's in great shape and the replacement spkr is actually a really nice upgrade for that particular amp. Ultimately I've passed for 2 reasons: 1) Our currently-horrid exchange rate; and 2) Shipping is expensive on that one. IF I were to purchase and pick it up in NY State (US shipping only), approx cost to me (with paypal exchange) would be $850 purchase + $100 for shipping + $125 tax + $25 for gas & tolls. Besides the 3 hour trip, total would be around $1100 which is _a lot_ for that amp..


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

StevieMac said:


> I was looking at the very same amp. It's in great shape and the replacement spkr is actually a really nice upgrade for that particular amp. Ultimately I've passed for 2 reasons: 1) Our currently-horrid exchange rate; and 2) Shipping is expensive on that one. IF I were to purchase and pick it up in NY State (US shipping only), approx cost to me (with paypal exchange) would be $850 purchase + $100 for shipping + $125 tax + $25 for gas & tolls. Besides the 3 hour trip, total would be around $1100 which is _a lot_ for that amp..


I guess when you actually break down the costs, it does get expensive. Then again, why the lack of bidding from people South of the border? I think 'snobbery' has something to do with it. I wish I had some extra cash and the exchange rate was a little close to par is all I can say :smile:


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

Does it come with the footpedal? If not the costs are going to get higher as those use a specialty footpedal that are expensive. ON the Rivera amps, the reverb is a little weak on the gain channel if I remember correctly, because half of the reverb driver tube is used for a gain boost.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Ripper said:


> Does it come with the footpedal? If not the costs are going to get higher as those use a specialty footpedal that are expensive.


Not an issue with this one as it's *pre*-Rivera. This amp is simply a late-SF with a unique faceplate that Fender offered in the last 2 yrs of production. Naturally, it has the pull-boost feature but Rev/Vib switching was identical to every DR before it.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

Ok, then riddle me this - how would it compare sound-wise to the SF models, and the blackfaces of the 60's. Someone else told me that the circuitry is almost identical, but I don't buy that.


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

vds5000 said:


> Ok, then riddle me this - how would it compare sound-wise to the SF models, and the blackfaces of the 60's. Someone else told me that the circuitry is almost identical, but I don't buy that.


That could be a really tough one to answer as SF's don't necessarily sound like the next SF etc. I dont' know if those ones used the ultralinear tranny like later SF's did either and with the boost circuit in there it will have some effect as well. You can probably do some simple cap changes etc to bring it closer to the older models but I'd have to look at a schem for to see for sure.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

vds5000 said:


> Ok, then riddle me this - how would it compare sound-wise to the SF models, and the blackfaces of the 60's. Someone else told me that the circuitry is almost identical, but I don't buy that.


Actually the circuitry is almost exactly the same apart from the addition of a line out jack and different footswitch connector. This amp is THE LAST of it's kind from Fender as stated by StevieMac earlier.
Sound wise, it will be like a SF Deluxe as it essentially is one.
Here's a like for more information...
http://www.ampwares.com/amp.asp?id=60


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

nonreverb said:


> Actually the circuitry is almost exactly the same apart from the addition of a line out jack and different footswitch connector. This amp is THE LAST of it's kind from Fender as stated by StevieMac earlier.
> Sound wise, it will be like a SF Deluxe as it essentially is one.
> Here's a like for more information...
> http://www.ampwares.com/amp.asp?id=60


Hey thanks for the update Nonreverb. With those ones being made in that configuration for such a short period of time I don't think I would make any changes to the amp from a circuit standpoint. That might be a model best left unmodded, if it's BF sound etc you're after.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Ripper said:


> That could be a really tough one to answer as SF's don't necessarily sound like the next SF etc. I dont' know if those ones used the ultralinear tranny like later SF's did either and with the boost circuit in there it will have some effect as well. You can probably do some simple cap changes etc to bring it closer to the older models but I'd have to look at a schem for to see for sure.


The Deluxe reverb was one of the few amps that didn't receive an ultralinear transformer. It maintained it's wattage rating throughout it's production. Thankfully they left it alone...:rockon:


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

nonreverb said:


> The Deluxe reverb was one of the few amps that didn't receive an ultralinear transformer. It maintained it's wattage rating throughout it's production. Thankfully they left it alone...:rockon:


It's nice to know they didn't plunder all of their amp line.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I love the Silverface Fenders. Currently I have a 68' Princeton and a 79' Princeton Reverb. They are the sweetest amps I have ever owned. I've also got a DR Reissue and while it's a pretty nice amp it doesn't hold a candle to the Princetons.

I'd love to grab a Silverface DR but the price would have to be right.... and they're on their way up.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Ripper said:


> It's nice to know they didn't plunder all of their amp line.


I believe all of the small amps were spared from significant "upgrades" by Fender. Champs, PR's, and DR's were essentially unscathed and thus can generally be returned to BF specs.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

So what I'm hearing is that the silverface models (the Deluxe Reverb at the very least) have circuitry that is essentially the same as the older blackface models. Or am I misunderstanding?


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

vds5000 said:


> So what I'm hearing is that the silverface models (the Deluxe Reverb at the very least) have circuitry that is essentially the same as the older blackface models. Or am I misunderstanding?


Very close, there are some differences however. The SF models after '68 had the 5U4 rectifier tube as opposed to the 5AR4. The phase inverter circuit was changed, the reverb circuit was slightly altered and, as stated earlier, the pull boost was added. All of these changes can be reverted back to BF spec easily.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

nonreverb said:


> Very close, there are some differences however. The SF models after '68 had the 5U4 rectifier tube as opposed to the 5AR4. The phase inverter circuit was changed, the reverb circuit was slightly altered and, as stated earlier, the pull boost was added. All of these changes can be reverted back to BF spec easily.


Yup - as said earlier, the little guys up to and including the Deluxe Reverb saw very little in the way of change to their circuits. Even with the poorly applied "pull boost" feature it's said that if you leave it pushed in then it has no affect on the circuit.

To me, the only downside with the silverfaces is when they changed the cabinetry from pine to particle board and did away with the removable baffle (71?) - it made the amp a lot heavier and prevented you (in the Princeton at least) from mounting a 12" baffle.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

allthumbs56 said:


> Yup - as said earlier, the little guys up to and including the Deluxe Reverb saw very little in the way of change to their circuits. Even with the poorly applied "pull boost" feature it's said that if you leave it pushed in then it has no affect on the circuit.
> 
> To me, the only downside with the silverfaces is when they changed the cabinetry from pine to particle board and did away with the removable baffle (71?) - it made the amp a lot heavier and prevented you (in the Princeton at least) from mounting a 12" baffle.


But do these changes justify the difference in prices between original blackfaces and their silverface counterparts?

I guess there's the 'mystique' factor surrounding the blackfaces. Not unlike comparing older Les Pauls to ones from the early 90's.


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

vds5000 said:


> But do these changes justify the difference in prices between original blackfaces and their silverface counterparts?
> 
> I guess there's the 'mystique' factor surrounding the blackfaces. Not unlike comparing older Les Pauls to ones from the early 90's.


In all honesty no older tube amp really justifys the prices they are getting, it's all about availability, legend and perception.

I've heard blackface fenders that sound like amps and I've heard silverface amps that sound fantastic (I own one). Silverface amps necessarily sound bad, they sound different somewhat from a blackface and the differences are more pronounced between certain models.

I would grab the one you're looking at and never worry about whether it's "a real blackface" or not.

Unless your buying it for investment, then that is slightly different.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Why don't you give this a try ?

http://www.guitarscanada.com/Board/showthread.php?t=17869


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

Ripper said:


> In all honesty no older tube amp really justifys the prices they are getting, it's all about availability, legend and perception...
> 
> .


I think the same argument could be applied to most vintage guitars. Seriously, would a late 50's/early 60's Strat be of higher quality than a modern day Fender Custom Shop version? If anything, I would think that the CS versions may even be of higher quality than the originals. Sorry, looks like I got sidetracked again.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Ripper said:


> In all honesty no older tube amp really justifys the prices they are getting, it's all about availability, legend and perception.
> 
> I've heard blackface fenders that sound like amps and I've heard silverface amps that sound fantastic (I own one). Silverface amps necessarily sound bad, they sound different somewhat from a blackface and the differences are more pronounced between certain models.
> 
> ...


Quite true Ripper...I own both a '66 Deluxe reverb and a '74 Deluxe reverb and the SF is the one I use most....although I have changed out the speaker and modded it to BF spec, I find it has just the right tone for me. Having said that, the BF is a great sounding amp too BUT at todays prices I could never justify the cost...


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

nonreverb said:


> Quite true Ripper...I own both a '66 Deluxe reverb and a '74 Deluxe reverb and the SF is the one I use most....although I have changed out the speaker and modded it to BF spec, I find it has just the right tone for me. Having said that, the BF is a great sounding amp too BUT at todays prices I could never justify the cost...


I preferred that amp too. Pry mine out of my cold dead hands. I would hate to have to replace it though.


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

nonreverb said:


> Quite true Ripper...I own both a '66 Deluxe reverb and a '74 Deluxe reverb and the SF is the one I use most....although I have changed out the speaker and modded it to BF spec, I find it has just the right tone for me. Having said that, the BF is a great sounding amp too BUT at todays prices I could never justify the cost...


I'm the same way, my 69 Vibrolux Reverb is the fender of mine I use most. It's been BF'd and I got rid of the oxfords that was in it, but honestly it was my go to fender even before I did that to it.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

My only real beef with the silverface models is literally the silver face. I think the blackface exudes class, whereas to me, the look of the silverface looks kinda cheap and tacky. I used to own a mid-70's Vibrolux - dead mint. I had it for a few weeks and ditched it specifically because of its look.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Repro BF faceplates are easy to find these days. In fact, there's a PR on the FS board with one of these. Anyway, I think you can purchase a new one from the states for about $50. And I agree *vds5000*...they look _much_ better than a SF.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

StevieMac said:


> Repro BF faceplates are easy to find these days. In fact, there's a PR on the FS board with one of these. Anyway, I think you can purchase a new one from the states for about $50. And I agree *vds5000*...they look _much_ better than a SF.


Yeah, I saw that PR thread and actually commented on how beautiful it looks. I did some research on the company that made that faceplate (Vintone). The guy who runs that company seems to have 'disappeared' with the money of a lot of former customers. There's actually a Harmony Central thread discussing this. Apparently, he actually used CorelDraw to create the designs and then had a friend lazer-etch them. So you could have ordered a completely customized faceplate. Imagine having a Fender 'Thingamabob' model with all the levels going to 12 - that'd actually be kinda cool.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

vds5000 said:


> My only real beef with the silverface models is literally the silver face. I think the blackface exudes class, whereas to me, the look of the silverface looks kinda cheap and tacky. I used to own a mid-70's Vibrolux - dead mint. I had it for a few weeks and ditched it specifically because of its look.


I dunno - I think they're sexy .... especially with the drip-edge. 








Actually, that's an imitation drip edge I made for a 12" baffle ... but you get the idea.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

allthumbs56 said:


> I dunno - I think they're sexy .... especially with the drip-edge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


See, I look at those and think 'two nice amps', but I just can't get over the faceplates. They just remind me of everything tacky about the 70's.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

vds5000 said:


> See, I look at those and think 'two nice amps', but I just can't get over the faceplates. They just remind me of everything tacky about the 70's.


I dunno...blackline SF amps are mighty sexy....basically a BF in SF clothinglofu


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Never had an issue with the looks. I have had mine since 82'.... there is just something comfortable to me to see it back there. Burned into the memory bank so to speak. I wouldn't be able to play if things looked different behind me. 


evilGuitar:


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

vds5000 said:


> See, I look at those and think 'two nice amps', but I just can't get over the faceplates. They just remind me of everything tacky about the 70's.


The 70's was my decade, man. Bring on the bling! Tacky is as tacky does.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

allthumbs56 said:


> The 70's was my decade, man. Bring on the bling! Tacky is as tacky does.


I think some of the best music ever made came from the 70's. In fact, most of my favorite musicians hit their commercial and creative peaks during the 70's. Unfortunately, we can also thank the 70's for 'fros, crazy clothes, and big-a$$ed Chevys.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

vds5000 said:


> I think some of the best music ever made came from the 70's. In fact, most of my favorite musicians hit their commercial and creative peaks during the 70's. Unfortunately, we can also thank the 70's for 'fros, crazy clothes, and big-a$$ed Chevys.


Like the Chevette and the Vega? Yeah .. let's drop a 350 in :smile:


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

I was thinking Novas, but yes, I do recall many folk with their Vegas.

Actually, I think some of the best guitar tones came from the 70's. Van Halen, Aerosmith, AC/DC, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Deep Purple, Boston, Heart, Pink Floyd, even some Kiss.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

vds5000 said:


> Actually, I think some of the best guitar tones came from the 70's. Van Halen, Aerosmith, AC/DC, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Deep Purple, Boston, Heart, Pink Floyd, even some Kiss.


It was Marshall's decade though - don't think any of these guys were grinding through silverface Fenders.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

allthumbs56 said:


> It was Marshall's decade though - don't think any of these guys were grinding through silverface Fenders.


I recall reading in the 90's that Kiss (Ace specifically) used his Les Pauls through a Deluxe Reverb when recording during their heyday. Whether it was a blackface or silverface wasn't specified however. Take it for what it's worth.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

vds5000 said:


> I recall reading in the 90's that Kiss (Ace specifically) used his Les Pauls through a Deluxe Reverb when recording during their heyday. Whether it was a blackface or silverface wasn't specified however. Take it for what it's worth.


A lot of guys used Vox AC30's as well. I read somwhere that Ritchie Blackmore used his favourite AC30 for all of the first 3 albums and even had it hidden in one of his Marshall cabs duing their heyday in the '70's.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

nonreverb said:


> A lot of guys used Vox AC30's as well. I read somwhere that Ritchie Blackmore used his favourite AC30 for all of the first 3 albums and even had it hidden in one of his Marshall cabs duing their heyday in the '70's.


Didn't EVH also do that when he was endorsing the Peavey 5150, by actually using his Marshall Plexi?


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