# Traynor & Fender



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Both of these amps are generally good quality with solid backgrounds. Here is a question for you guys/gals with lots of amp experience.

I've seen a few posts over the years that have compared these two manufacturers as having similar sounding models. Do you agree with that view or are they totally different beasts?


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

While I'm not an expert on either type--they have similarities--as all amps would to some degree, but they certainly each have their own character.
I like both, but Fenders seem --to me at least-- to have more character, or more of a distinctive sound, but that's not to put down Traynor.

They have some real nice bass amps too.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

That's not really a fair question as there isn't a single definitive "Fender sound". Besides the obvious differences from one model to another, the "same" amp from different eras are quite different (i.e. compare a tweed, brown & BF Deluxe).

Also, I've seen a lot of posts about making a few simple mods to turn a Traynor into a Plexi. A vintage Traynor I played was more Marshall than Fender. It was an EL84 based combo that was very bright, very loud & too heavy.... but.... when you plugged in a Lester & let 'er rip... Holy Jimmy Page, Batman! Yes it was a one-trick pony, but what a great trick!!!!


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## drs13 (Apr 1, 2013)

I've compared my Traynor YCV40T to my Deluxe Reverb RI for Fender Cleans. I know, it's a bit of a mismatch 22w vs 40w but the Traynor sounded decent and warm except the Fender reverb was better. Obviously, the Traynor got louder while staying clean. The Hot Rod Deluxe is the correct match-up and I think the YCV40 does nicely from reports I've heard. I wish Traynor would make a 22w 2x6V6 combo to go head-to-head against the Deluxe Reverb for $200 less. My Darkhorse gets good 6V6 cleans but no reverb and not a combo. Make this 2x6V6 combo like the YCV40 with the 2 channels and FX loop and reverb. I know they make the YCV20 but there is a warmth that 6V6 tubes have that EL84 tubes don't have. I also think 6V6s last longer than EL84s.


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

Its not really a Fair comparison 99% of what people think of as a Fender amp is the classic Black Panel Reverb amp from 63 to 67 
and these ARE not my favorite Fenders. Traynor amps started with a 59 bassman clone but pretty quickly moved in a more HI FI inspired direction. The many of the unique Traynor circuits have their roots in the some of the more advanced concepts being promoted for 
Hi Fi reproduction. When you get your hands on a great Traynor it tends to sound more like a big clean hiwatt than a Fender amp. 

p


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

I'd have to agree with that.


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## Razbo (Jul 19, 2011)

drs13 said:


> My Darkhorse gets good 6V6 cleans but no reverb and not a combo. Make this 2x6V6 combo like the YCV40 with the 2 channels and FX loop and reverb.


That's something I've wished for as well. 

I have only a Fender DeVille to compare my YCV40 and Darkhorse to, and I think the DeVille exemplifies the whole "Fender Clean" thing. Any other Fender I've heard also just has it. Overdrive channel, though, leaves way much to be desired. In my limited opinion, that is.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

I like good cleans over everything and in my opinion Fender amps do it best, my favorite being the Hot Rod Deville 2X12 combo. That said I played through a Traynor YCV80 with two twelves recently and that had a nice clean as well, a bit different from the Fender but in a good way.


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## Petey D (Sep 8, 2011)

Most Traynors that I've had the pleasure of plugging into don't really compare to to Fenders all that well, imo they're closer to Marshalls. When I was shopping for halfstacks years ago, my three finalists were the Marshall DSL 50, The Mesa Stilleto Ace 50, and the Traynor YCS 50. I found that all three had very similar tonal qualities but the YCS seemed to be more versetile, and was a lot more affordable.

Fek, I don't know how many times I've heard Traynor Amps refered to as "The poor man's Marshall."


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## drs13 (Apr 1, 2013)

I wonder why Traynor doesn't go head to head against the Deluxe Reverb Reissue? Maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist but Yorkville makes Traynor and owns or owns a big part of Long & McQuade. L&M sells a lot of Fender and I'm sure enjoys a good relationship with Fender. Fender is still the marquis name for most guitar players. If Yorkville/Traynor/L&M started going head to head with Fender's bread-and-butter amp, maybe fender would exert pressure? I've wondered about this with other things at L&M. They sell a ton of BOSS gear and other Roland gear but they don't sell Roland Cube amps. They sell a lot of Fender solid state amps but not Cubes which, up until the most recent generation of Mustangs, were better amps. Maybe Fender's saying "us or them?" Same with Ibanez Artcore. L&M always has a few but not a lot. Direct competition with the Epi's semi/hollow bodies. Epi is owned by Gibson. Who is the sole distributor of Gibson in Canada? Yorkville.


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## big frank (Mar 5, 2006)

drs13: This would seem natural wouldn't it? A Traynor Deluxe Reverb Clone for less money would certainly peak my interest.
Make it look vintage Traynor and I'm a buyer.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

You guys are basically describing the Guitarmate and it was reissued. Even if Traynor made a clone, everyone would still say it is not a "real" Fender and that the Fender is "better." Just like Les Pauls and Gibson.
p


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## 5732 (Jul 30, 2009)

big frank said:


> drs13: This would seem natural wouldn't it? A Traynor Deluxe Reverb Clone for less money would certainly peak my interest.
> Make it look vintage Traynor and I'm a buyer.


But that's basically what the YGM3 reissue is, only with the traynor you are getting a handwired amp running el84s for about the same price as the DRRI. Reverb, tremolo, non master volume, 112, about 20 watts. What kills traynor (new sales), IMO, is the resale. They are usually a much better amp compared to fender, dollar for dollar (again IMO). One of the reasons I bought a DRRI is I know I can resell it for $700-$800 down the line (and I already have an old YGM3). I see ycv40s, ycs50s, etc all the time for sale in the $400-$500 (probably selling for less), so somebody is taking a 50% loss off the original price. I posted my ycv20 for $350 and not a bite despite the retail being twice that. On the flip side, traynors are incredible value for those shopping the used market.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

drs13 said:


> I wonder why Traynor doesn't go head to head against the Deluxe Reverb Reissue? Maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist but Yorkville makes Traynor and owns or owns a big part of Long & McQuade. L&M sells a lot of Fender and I'm sure enjoys a good relationship with Fender. Fender is still the marquis name for most guitar players. If Yorkville/Traynor/L&M started going head to head with Fender's bread-and-butter amp, maybe fender would exert pressure? I've wondered about this with other things at L&M. They sell a ton of BOSS gear and other Roland gear but they don't sell Roland Cube amps. They sell a lot of Fender solid state amps but not Cubes which, up until the most recent generation of Mustangs, were better amps. Maybe Fender's saying "us or them?" Same with Ibanez Artcore. L&M always has a few but not a lot. Direct competition with the Epi's semi/hollow bodies. Epi is owned by Gibson. Who is the sole distributor of Gibson in Canada? Yorkville.


That is very interesting. I did not know that Yorkville owned a portion of L & M. I wondered why they had so many Epi's and Gibsons but very little Ibanez product. Now I know why. It comes down to money as do most things in this world.


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## drs13 (Apr 1, 2013)

traynor_garnet said:


> You guys are basically describing the Guitarmate and it was reissued. Even if Traynor made a clone, everyone would still say it is not a "real" Fender and that the Fender is "better." Just like Les Pauls and Gibson.
> p





mud_guy said:


> But that's basically what the YGM3 reissue is, only with the traynor you are getting a handwired amp running el84s for about the same price as the DRRI. Reverb, tremolo, non master volume, 112, about 20 watts. What kills traynor (new sales), IMO, is the resale. They are usually a much better amp compared to fender, dollar for dollar (again IMO). One of the reasons I bought a DRRI is I know I can resell it for $700-$800 down the line (and I already have an old YGM3). I see ycv40s, ycs50s, etc all the time for sale in the $400-$500 (probably selling for less), so somebody is taking a 50% loss off the original price. I posted my ycv20 for $350 and not a bite despite the retail being twice that. On the flip side, traynors are incredible value for those shopping the used market.


Correct me if I'm wrong but the YGM 3 is 2xEL84. Due to this tube set and by all accounts I've read about the YGM 3, they do not sound like a DRRI. 6V6s coupled with a decent sized transformer have a sweetness and punch that EL84s do not have. El 84s have that chime that is unique to them and EL84 amps excel at the hairy cleans and crunch. I want an amp that has that sweet clean 6V6 sound that morphs into the sweeter singing overdrive. Why not just buy a DRRI? Because it's cool to support Traynor and jobs in Canada especially if they can sell for a bit of a discount.


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## zurn (Oct 21, 2009)

They just need to make a Dark Horse in a combo version with added reverb and tremolo.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk HD


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

traynor_garnet said:


> You guys are basically describing the Guitarmate and it was reissued. Even if Traynor made a clone, everyone would still say it is not a "real" Fender and that the Fender is "better." Just like Les Pauls and Gibson.
> p


Cynical, cynical, cynical. And I'm right there with you! Yep, those Fender, Gibson, Les Paul labels have a real sound altering effect.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

It really depends on the amp and how you're using it. 

I had an old YGL3 combo that was very Twin-sounding, despite being an EL34-based amp. Great cleans, reverb was sweet sounding and it was a fantastic platform for pedals, just heavy as heck!

My YGM2 has a lot of Marshall crunch going on when it's running wide open. When it's turned down, I can get it to mimic Fender Blues Deluxe or Bassman type cleans (I have both of those amps too), but it's not 100% the same. 

I like to think of Traynors as something in-between Fender and Marshall. Not quite the cleans of a Fender, not quite the crunch of a Marshall, but definitely decent-sounding amps that are inexpensive compared to the so-called real-deals. My YCS50 excelled at this. The cleans with some reverb was fantastic and the OD channel had lots of great driven sounds. Just a great amp with a lot of flexibility for a pretty decent price.


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## ColForbin (Sep 10, 2012)

Also, the new Traynor YGL1 is a really nice sounding amp too. I would suspect being at 15 watts and some tweakable gain, it is more a competitor to the Blues Jr. But still, it's a great amp at at great price. I did a personal shootout between a Blues Jr. III w/ Cannabis Rex and a YGL1, and I came away with the impression that the YGL1 was the better amp. The reverb on the fender was a bit better, but I really enjoyed the clean on the fender. But the drive sound out of the Traynor, was far superior, and it's way more versatile with the "mode" switch on the front.


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

drs13 said:


> I wonder why Traynor doesn't go head to head against the Deluxe Reverb Reissue? Maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist but Yorkville makes Traynor and owns or owns a big part of Long & McQuade. L&M sells a lot of Fender and I'm sure enjoys a good relationship with Fender. Fender is still the marquis name for most guitar players. If Yorkville/Traynor/L&M started going head to head with Fender's bread-and-butter amp, maybe fender would exert pressure? I've wondered about this with other things at L&M. They sell a ton of BOSS gear and other Roland gear but they don't sell Roland Cube amps. They sell a lot of Fender solid state amps but not Cubes which, up until the most recent generation of Mustangs, were better amps. Maybe Fender's saying "us or them?" Same with Ibanez Artcore. L&M always has a few but not a lot. Direct competition with the Epi's semi/hollow bodies. Epi is owned by Gibson. Who is the sole distributor of Gibson in Canada? Yorkville.


You are being overly complicated about this. Obviously L&M will offer the Epi Gibson product and stock it in depth. As customers we love variety and choice, but in reality we look at x y and z brand and buy the obvious big names, Fender and Gibson. The music business is littered with the wreckage of great product lines and ideas that never caught on. 

Regarding Traynor, don't forget that they dropped tubes in the 80's and thought solid state was here to stay. Yorkville is a very successful PA company. The return to tubes was customer driven and the engineering people have been working to build some great products, but Fender has a legacy engineering history of 60+ years of killer tube guitar amps to draw on, possibly hundreds of models. 
Traynor has 20 legacy amp designs that are not widely known outside of Canada. 

IMHO the YGL-1 is a much better amp than the similar Blues JR, but it will still take years of better products to put a dent in Fender amp sales. 

FWIW I have suggested a killer 6v6 amp to Traynor people for years then suddenly the Dark Horse appeared... 



p


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

drs13 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but the YGM 3 is 2xEL84. Due to this tube set and by all accounts I've read about the YGM 3, they do not sound like a DRRI. 6V6s coupled with a decent sized transformer have a sweetness and punch that EL84s do not have. El 84s have that chime that is unique to them and EL84 amps excel at the hairy cleans and crunch. I want an amp that has that sweet clean 6V6 sound that morphs into the sweeter singing overdrive. Why not just buy a DRRI? Because it's cool to support Traynor and jobs in Canada especially if they can sell for a bit of a discount.


the Feature set is the same but the guitar mate has a completely different Midrange sweepable EQ (baxendall) 
It has a far more robust transformer set, with a more British voiced low primary output transformer ... 
and unfortunately the crappiest speaker ever put in a guitar amp... which WAS faithfully reproduced in the re-issue 

as a result the Guitar mate has a far more complex midrange than the deluxe ... and IMHO is the better amp 
if you pop any good celestion into it 

I sold all my vintage deluxes after I figured out how to use the Guitar mate... unlike an old deluxe a guitar mate will not heat soak during a gig and lose power by the end of the night 

p


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

parkhead said:


> the Feature set is the same but the guitar mate has a completely different Midrange sweepable EQ (baxendall)
> It has a far more robust transformer set, with a more British voiced low primary output transformer ...
> and unfortunately the crappiest speaker ever put in a guitar amp... which WAS faithfully reproduced in the re-issue
> 
> ...


I agree with Parkhead and others. I simply love Traynors more than Fenders!

Pete is a genius and a helluva great guy! (and his wife Suzanne is a sweetie!) He is one of the few giants alive today who actually helped CREATE the sound of rock and roll!

As for differences in tone, it's true those old Marsland speakers suck! In those days there was no Free Trade or Nafta, so imported speakers had high extra duty costs. The only real Canadian manufacturer was Marsland, which came from the older Radio Speakers of Canada. RSC made other brands like Jensen under licence from the American parent companies. Most of the sales volume was in speakers for radios and home hifi units. The world was changing at that time and Japan began to take more and more of that market. RSC went under and Marsland was made in the ashes. Marsland eventually died and some of those guys formed McBride Speakers, a LARGE stocking master distributor for brands like Eminence. They are VERY good people!! Terry there knows so much about speakers you'd swear he invented them!

Changing the voice of a Traynor to sound more like a Fender or a Marshall has always been rather easy. The handwiring meant major changes were not hard to to, unlike a modern printed circuit board amp where major mods may just not be cost-effective.

IMHO, the greatest thing about Traynors was that Pete used those bigass Hammond output trannies! The lower the bass response demanded of an OT the larger and heavier it needs to be. If you compare the OT in an Ampeg V4 guitar head with that of its bass guitar brother, the V4B, you will immediately note the V4B OT is about a good third heavier and bigger! There is a LOT more energy in low bass notes and the OT must handle it!

To my ears, this means that Traynors just have a better bottom end! Even when "Marshallized" they sound beefier and tighter. This is really obvious if the player is using lower tunings. I regularly get a guy bringing me his Soldano or whatever, complaining that it sounds "mushy". I've learned to ask him if he is playing in open C and the answer is almost always yes! So I explain the physics behind bass notes needing a big OT. Sometimes they just use a bass amp but many times they will try a Traynor and be "pickled tink"!:rockon:

When I was a lad we always put down Traynor, dismissing them as cheap and not sounding as good as a "real" amp. We were just cocky little bastards who were ignorant of what made a good amp! It was like how many folks don't know a good wine from a bad but think that to be good it can't be made in Canada! Somehow, it has to come from a country far away to be any good.

Later as I began to work on amps I realized that Pete's stuff was as good or BETTER than the competition! His amps always had a great rock and roll sound. There were differences of course from Fender and Marshall, the market leaders. There was supposed to be! Traynor was marketing their own sound, not building clones!

Over the years techs have learned the major improvements. Better speakers, of course. The reverb tone is different because Pete drove the tank through a large cap instead of a transformer, saving a few pennies. So his reverb sounds more like an Ampeg than a Fender. Still, that's more a matter of taste. What tastes better, lager or ale?:food-smiley-004:

Wild Bill/Busen Amps


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

Wild Bill said:


> What tastes better, lager or ale?


Ale, of course! While playing through a Traynor.


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

JHarasym said:


> Ale, of course! While playing through a Traynor.


Well, I'm willing! Willing and able!:rockon2:

Wild Bill/Busen Amps


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Wild Bill said:


> What tastes better, lager or ale?:food-smiley-004:
> QUOTE]
> 
> Laleger, through either amp.:food-smiley-004:


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