# Best Japanese Les Paul Copy?



## hollowbody

I'm looking to buy a Japanese Les Paul copy. Which do you think is the best and why?

I play mostly Classic Rock, Blues, Alt.Rock and Alt.Country through a clean amp. I get my dirt from stompboxes.

I'm looking for a guitar that has good wood, a decent weight, a great neck (preferably the slimmer LP neck) and decent electronics would be nice too, though I can always change that up later. :rockon:


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## Mooh

Does it have to be Japanese? How about Taiwan, China, etc?

Just wondering.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Evilmusician

Love my 80's Burny Les Paul custom great guitars !:rockon:


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## hollowbody

Mooh said:


> Does it have to be Japanese? How about Taiwan, China, etc?
> 
> Just wondering.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


No, I guess not, but most of the vintage mystique given to LP copies have been Japanese-produced guitars. But if you got something else that sounds killer, by all means, fill me in!!! :banana:


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## bagpipe

A buddy of mine recently bought an El Degas Les Paul copy, from the early 70s. Its an awesome guitar - we compared it side by side with my Les Paul Classic. Blindfolded, I dont think I could tell them apart. My guitar has the skinny 60s neck, and the necks on these guitars were identical.


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## violation

Old school Ibanez. Even though mine has low frets it still rips! That said I haven't tried too many other Japanese LPs.


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## rockinbluesfan

Been thinking of one of these myself. Check out the esp edwards or the tokai's, I have been reading lots of good user reviews on harmony central about these! The next thing is to find one (especially a lefty). There are several right hand ones available from japan, just google it!


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## Diablo

Old Ibanez's or recent ESP/LTD's.


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## Tarl

I have this up for sale right now....



http://kingston.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and...ts-Tokai-Love-Rock-LP-Clone-W0QQAdIdZ40714447


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## Kenmac

I'd go with either a Tokai or an Edwards although when it comes to a brand like Orville there are some people who are divided on whether it says "Orville" or "Orville by Gibson" on the headstock and most people seem to take the latter as they think it's better. I find the quality control for most Japanese guitars is higher than for the U.S. built ones although I do have to admit that Fender is making some pretty nice guitars right now. 



hollowbody said:


> I'm looking to buy a Japanese Les Paul copy. Which do you think is the best and why?
> 
> I play mostly Classic Rock, Blues, Alt.Rock and Alt.Country through a clean amp. I get my dirt from stompboxes.
> 
> I'm looking for a guitar that has good wood, a decent weight, a great neck (preferably the slimmer LP neck) and decent electronics would be nice too, though I can always change that up later. :rockon:


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## snoglobe

I have a mid-80's Aria that I picked up a few years ago at L&M for $200 (someone was trading it in). The neck and frets are nice. The tuners have been replaced with Pings and will someday be replaced with Gibby tuners. Basically the guitar sounded like crap, but one day a buddy gave me the pups out of his SG (he was going to P-90s). I took it in to a shop in town and had the pups put in, and all the green board and guts yanked and rewired with new pots, caps, etc. The thing howls, not like my SG, but nice enough though.


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## marshallman

Tarl said:


> I have this up for sale right now....
> 
> 
> 
> http://kingston.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and...ts-Tokai-Love-Rock-LP-Clone-W0QQAdIdZ40714447


Dude.... That's a sickass guitar! :food-smiley-004:


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## Ti-Ron

Tarl said:


> I have this up for sale right now....
> 
> 
> 
> http://kingston.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and...ts-Tokai-Love-Rock-LP-Clone-W0QQAdIdZ40714447


What kind of pick up is it? EMG one or it just balck cover?

By the way, it's a good thread, I wondering myself wich one is the best! Gibson are really pricy and since I discover the CIJ the made usa lost their shine! Too much value is according to the name of the brand!


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## stever121

*Best Japan copy?*

I've played a few different japanese copies and have a few of them.(see vintage northern les paul custom on the vintage page for pics).The first Ibanez in the one pic is from 1977 and has the original super 70's neck pick up in it, and I also have the original bridge pick up for it,but installed a pick up from a Gibson LP Custom into it and it is by far my most favorite guitar.The next guitar in the pic is my 1974 Ibanez Goldtop.I bought a set of Gibson 496R and 500T pick ups that are used in Gibson flying V's and it sounds amazing but has a bit fatter neck than my 77.The next pic is the Northern.The quality of this guitar is incredible,I only just picked this up a couple of weeks ago so havent had much of a chance to play it yet.But from what I've heard so far of,it is pretty sweet as well.My choice of japanese guitars has to be the IBANEZ.I've been playing live shows with this guitar,the 1977,for over 20 years and would never part with it.Good luck finding what you ara looking for.Oh yeah,I would stay far away from the ones made in china.From what i've seen and heard,they're crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Robert1950

Navigator by ESP


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## Rick31797

*LP Copys*

I haven't played alot of LP copies, but recently bought a real nice one...And guess what ??? its a Yamaha weddington Custom . IF the name was covered up i would have never guess i was playing a Yamaha
I can honestly tell you its as good or better in some ways then my 1982 LP Custom.
Its lighter, and the neck joint is a work of art..All the high end features you expect with a expensive guitar. 
The only problem is, they are hard to find> I see them on ebay once and awhile. There is a Standard model. Classic and Custom.
If you can get one you won't be disappointed.The Japan quaility guitars in the passed where looked down on and underestimated. The Weddington design and craftmanship is every bit good as the USA Gibson.

RK


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## marshallman

I don't know if it's Japenese made, but I've got a Lotus Les Paul copy that will be arriving soon in the mail. I can't wait to try it out, I'll keep you guys posted when I get it.


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## Tarl

Ti-Ron said:


> What kind of pick up is it? EMG one or it just balck cover?
> 
> By the way, it's a good thread, I wondering myself wich one is the best! Gibson are really pricy and since I discover the CIJ the made usa lost their shine! Too much value is according to the name of the brand!


Passive Pickups with a black cover..not EMGs......and they sound great.


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## jv100k

My 84 Tokai goltop is the best i have ever tried.


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## Tarl

jv100k...wow thats a beauty........

:bow:



My 2 MIKs....


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## sneakypete

the best MIJs right now would cost as much or more than Gibson...I`ve seen some new models by Crews, a company thats been building high end guitars for some years now, they`re shown at the Musicland Key web site and are Les Paul clones but they ain`t cheap. There are plenty of others too...but if you don`t want to spend that much, any of the brands you mentioned in your poll would fit the bill although with tons of guys willing to pay almost any price sellers are asking they`re gonna cost ya. I`m in a much smaller city with fewer guys looking and...evidently...sales staff who have no idea what they`re selling, so I have been really lucky and found a lot of great deals.


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## NB-SK

sneakypete said:


> the best MIJs right now would cost as much or more than Gibson...I`ve seen some new models by Crews, a company thats been building high end guitars for some years now, they`re shown at the Musicland Key web site and are Les Paul clones but they ain`t cheap. There are plenty of others too...but if you don`t want to spend that much, any of the brands you mentioned in your poll would fit the bill although with tons of guys willing to pay almost any price sellers are asking they`re gonna cost ya. I`m in a much smaller city with fewer guys looking and...evidently...sales staff who have no idea what they`re selling, so I have been really lucky and found a lot of great deals.



You always have a way of making me wish I was closer to the southcoast of Korea because from there I could take the fairy to Japan (roughly 60$) and shop around for the weekend. 

I have Japanese colleagues and friends who live in Japan, but I don't want to bother them with that. Are there any Japanese auction sites that are foreign buyer friendly?


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## NOS Gary

I bought an '84 Tokai Loverock new old stock in 1988, wasn't shopping for a guitar, never had heard of it, but I was blown away when I opened the case in a music store and saw this beautiful flametop. It was so close to a real 59 burst I had owned a decade earlier (a whole 'nother story). What struck me when I first grabbed it was how thin the neck was compared to my old one, and then how _light_ it was - 7 1/2 lbs! Very resonant tone, flawless workmanship. I think the Japanese copies of the 80's were scary close to the real deal, and thats what put the fire under Gibson to bring out the Historic line. I've got a Historic reissue now and, except for the name on the headstock, can't honestly see why I paid five times the price for it!


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## Mooh

Tokai and Epiphone are the copies which have made an impression on me, but I'm afraid I carried the bias against copies so long that it stopped me from trying them many times.

If I was shopping for such a guitar nowadays, I'd make sure that dimensions and tolerances were such that they'd allow direct original Les Paul replacement parts. From what I see coming in for repairs, switches, tuners, pickups, pots, and bridges often need replacement or service.

Peace, Mooh.


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## sneakypete

NB-SK said:


> Are there any Japanese auction sites that are foreign buyer friendly?


not that I know of, I buy and sell on yahoo japan so it`s the only site I really know about. I`ve heard about Rakuten but never looked at it.


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## hollowbody

sneakypete said:


> the best MIJs right now would cost as much or more than Gibson...I`ve seen some new models by Crews, a company thats been building high end guitars for some years now, they`re shown at the Musicland Key web site and are Les Paul clones but they ain`t cheap. There are plenty of others too...but if you don`t want to spend that much, any of the brands you mentioned in your poll would fit the bill although with tons of guys willing to pay almost any price sellers are asking they`re gonna cost ya. I`m in a much smaller city with fewer guys looking and...evidently...sales staff who have no idea what they`re selling, so I have been really lucky and found a lot of great deals.


I have some friends out in Korea right now teaching English. I wonder if I could wire them some money and get them to pick up a Korean Tokai for me? I wonder what the cost difference would be? Any idea?


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## pattste

Three pages already and I can't believe nobody has mentioned the Epiphone Elitist. They are made in Japan and are easily available here in Canada. Excellent guitar for the money. If you want a japanese LP-copy, I think they're your best (and lower risk) bet.

But personally, for the same money, I would try every Gibson LP Studio that I could find in a 200 mile radius and buy one of those instead.


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## Tarl

pattste said:


> Three pages already and I can't believe nobody has mentioned the Epiphone Elitist. They are made in Japan and are easily available here in Canada. Excellent guitar for the money. If you want a japanese LP-copy, I think they're your best (and lower risk) bet.
> 
> But personally, for the same money, I would try every Gibson LP Studio that I could find in a 200 mile radius and buy one of those instead.


The Epi Elitist series are great guitars but as you pointed out the price point tends to drift into Gibson terittory. Most folks would go for the real deal if the price was close.


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## sneakypete

after being in Japan for years and seeing the best they make, I no longer consider every Gibson to be the real deal...but thats just me...sure they do get it right sometimes but honestly, the top ends made here have nothing to be ashamed of...the Japanese are very good at cloning and have been working wood for longer than America was even a glimmer in anybody`s eye, and I`d wager there are a lot of excellent guitars made in many countries that could challenge Gibson, not to mention other very fine American made guitars ... to me the real deal is not always the US big two.
Your mileage may vary. 
I didn`t mention the Elites because...there aren`t any in this city and I only ever saw 2 SGs that only sold after they were reduced to 50% off list, and even then it took months. We are very spoiled for choices in Japan.


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## hollowbody

Tarl said:


> The Epi Elitist series are great guitars but as you pointed out the price point tends to drift into Gibson terittory. Most folks would go for the real deal if the price was close.


Truth. Also, when I was out shopping for my Dot, I tried it vs. a Sheraton, which just didn't have the same lovely tone, and although the Sherton Elite was a MUCH, MUCH nicer guitar, it also cost $1000 more than my Dot did. 

I would definitely consider the Epi Elite if the price tag was <$1000, but at close to $1500, I could buy a used Gibson! I would only pay around the $1k mark for a really, really nice 80's japanese LP. Otherwise, the lower the better!


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## Tarl

sneakypete said:


> after being in Japan for years and seeing the best they make, I no longer consider every Gibson to be the real deal...but thats just me...sure they do get it right sometimes but honestly, the top ends made here have nothing to be ashamed of...the Japanese are very good at cloning and have been working wood for longer than America was even a glimmer in anybody`s eye, and I`d wager there are a lot of excellent guitars made in many countries that could challenge Gibson, not to mention other very fine American made guitars ... to me the real deal is not always the US big two.


 I agree totally and realise that all Gibsons are not created equally, but given 2 closely priced guitars that are equally pleasing to a buyer in the looks / playability and sound departments........I really feel that most people would choose the one that says Gibson on the headstock rather than Tokai, Epiphone, Burny or Edwards.


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## Rick31797

*LP Copy*

Thats the smart thing to do, if the guitar prices are that close.. I dont know if i have ever seen an LP standard lower in price down to a Tokia, Or a Tokia for 1500.00

For resale if there was a LP copy that close to the real gibson, you would be forced to buy the Gibson even if the other one played better.
You see it everyday and not with just Gibson>

Somebody will post a forsale for a Guild Guitar and will get alot of people responding. But if you put an add for a DeArmond,( Guild) people will pass unless you are giving it away.
People seem to want the real deal, Gibson< PRS< Guild< Gretch and so on.

Look at the Yamaha Weddington on the second page> I bought this a few months ago, and paid as much for this as a LP standard>
I have a 1982 LP custom I bought new ,and this Guitar has it beat> But if the two guitars where in a music store, same price ..you are right i would have went for the Gibson> 

Rick


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## NB-SK

Tarl said:


> The Epi Elitist series are great guitars but as you pointed out the price point tends to drift into Gibson terittory. Most folks would go for the real deal if the price was close.





Sneakypete said:


> I didn`t mention the Elites because...there aren`t any in this city and I only ever saw 2 SGs that only sold after they were reduced to 50% off list, and even then it took months. We are very spoiled for choices in Japan.


I own one of those SGs. I paid 47000 yen for it (and it has a lacquer finish and great Japanese hardware, too). It was on sale at Ishibashi Webshop for less than half of the manufacturer's suggested price (99000 yen). Cost me half as much customs and delivery, though...but still think it was a deal. The fretboard on that guitar is amazingly beautiful and the neck feels great.


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## sneakypete

Tarl said:


> ......I really feel that most people would choose the one that says Gibson on the headstock rather than Tokai, Epiphone, Burny or Edwards.


and that happens in this city, players are paying almost double the price some Gibsons sell for in America, and thats probably why I get such amazing deals on the older MIJs...nobody really seems to want them here...complately different situation with older MIJs in the bigger more sophisticated cities in Japan, though MIAs are big sellers...I bet they are a huge part of their global sales. Shops here proudly display their Gibson golden dealer awards while used Edwards hang for months. 
The last couple of times one local place had used Gibson classics they were priced at under $1000.oo...one sales guy who deals with me a lot whispered they`re having a used guitar sale at the end of the month so I`ll see what pops up.


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## sneakypete

NB-SK said:


> I own one of those SGs. I paid 47000 yen for it (and it has a lacquer finish and great Japanese hardware, too). It was on sale at Ishibashi Webshop for less than half of the manufacturer's suggested price (99000 yen). Cost me half as much customs and delivery, though...but still think it was a deal. The fretboard on that guitar is amazingly beautiful and the neck feels great.


the ones I saw were at 50,ooo yen so you did good.


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## NB-SK

sneakypete said:


> the ones I saw were at 50,ooo yen so you did good.


I think that was the price. I remember, whatever the price was, that I paid a little less because I didn't have to pay the sales tax. In any case, I'm happy with my purchase.

I had been eying the Lacquer Taste (Burny, right) SGs for a year and had planned to buy one next time I went to Japan, so I wasn't really planning on buying a guitar when I saw that Ishibashi was having a sale on Japanese Epiphones. I did some quick calculations, found that with shipping and duty they would come to a lot less than what a Burny would cost me here and bought the SG.

It truly is a great guitar in my opinion. It supposedly has a blemish, but all I could find was an inch-long mark that I easily rubbed off with my thumb (it looked to me as if it had been made with a bar of soap. I'm guessing it wasn't a blemished copy after all and that the factory or the store had just been trying to unload its discontinued models).


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## sneakypete

I know Edwards has some they call lacquer taste...and if I hadn`t found a used Edwards SG custom I`d have bought one of the Elites.


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## Guest

I've owned a few nippon LP's in my years.
El Degas, Univox, Mann, Mansfield and 
Gession (Tokai, pre-les paul reborn).
From what I remember, the Univox was my
fav. Probably cause I had dimarzio's in it.


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## zontar

The best ones I've run across are Ibanez ones.
But there are other good ones, and not so good ones.
Mine's somewhere in between.

But I'll take my Les Paul over any copy, any day.


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## NB-SK

sneakypete said:


> I know Edwards has some they call lacquer taste...and if I hadn`t found a used Edwards SG custom I`d have bought one of the Elites.


Right, the 'lacquer taste' are the Edwards. Even the new ones are relatively cheap in Japan, so you're must have been a bargain.


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## sneakypete

get the Eddies used...thats what I do.


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## Rick31797

*LP Copy*

1982 Gibson LP custom "VS " 1992 Yamaha Weddington Custom

THE WINNER >>> is >>> 1992 Yamaha Weddington Custom.


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## kous

NB-SK said:


> You always have a way of making me wish I was closer to the southcoast of Korea because from there I could take the fairy to Japan (roughly 60$) and shop around for the weekend.
> 
> I have Japanese colleagues and friends who live in Japan, but I don't want to bother them with that. Are there any Japanese auction sites that are foreign buyer friendly?


Its not an auction but if you're looking for a store try Ikebe Gakki. I've had a good transaction with them:
http://www.ikebe-gakki.com/shopping_10.php?cate=1&state=1

I'm surprised no one mentioned Greco. To some enthusiasts their Dry pickups are the best pickups ever produced. They're sought after as well. 

But I'm a Strat player so what do I know....


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## Budda

i daresay you know strats


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## Devil Baby

Used Edwards can be a great deal and play very nicely. I've played a few that can hang with a Gibson. Still rather save and have another Gibson though. I love my Les Paul more than any of my other guitars.


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## bolero

I have an '81 Tokai love rock that, once I put decent pickups in, sounds great. the stock pups didn't sound very good but I sold them to a collector who was into early tokais & he was happy

they are also very well made; neck joint was slightly different from gibsons, but compared to what gibson were building at the time they certainly kicked ass. most have a poly finish instead of nitro

from what I could research, the tokai/ibanez etc guitars back then were all made at the fuji-kan-gaki (? spelling? ) gtr factory, there were a lot of different brand names stuck on similar guitars 

for example I also have a "Pearl" branded les paul custom copy that I believe was made at the same place as the tokai: the neck joint & construction is identical. it's a great guitar too, but the stock pickups sounded very mediocre. really came to life when I put some duncan's in there

I don't have any experience with the new tokai's etc...although I hear there are a LOT of very cheap, low quality Gibson clones out there that are wreaking havoc on the used market because cosmetically they look very convincing.


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## hollowbody

When I originally started this thread, I was just looking for people's opinion on LP copies, trying to gauge which was best in terms of bang-for-the-buck. I've since decided that the LP for me is a '54 Custom, though it's hard to find one and even harder to be able to afford it. I'm now on the prowl for a black '54 Custom copy, but I don't know if any exist. 

Otherwise, I'll end up with a good ol' burst


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## bolero

hmm, I might be selling the black custom copy I have, it has humbuckers in it though


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## Jim DaddyO

I knew a guy in high school (lot of years ago) who had a Univox copy. That was one sweet guitar.


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## Archer

I have had Edwards, Navigator, Tokai, and a Greco.

In the short term they were all good guitars....I didnt keep any of them and went with gibsons. If I had NOT bought all of the knock offs to start with I could have saved a lot of $$$

Having said that, the Navigator was the best built and best sounding Japanese Paul copy I have ever owned.


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## antipole

For the current Les Paul copies, I would say the Edwards provide the best bang for its price. For vintage pre-lawsuit copies, I cannot comment as I have never played one before though I would be interested in trying an 80's Burny and a 90's Orville.


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## Rick31797

Whiever wins this will have a awesome LP Japanese copy . Hard to find a custom model.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160340693134


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## thecornman

The best one I ever played was a 83 Tokai Love Rocks that I used to own. Great guitar. I just could never get in to the Les Paul thing being a Strat man so I got rid of it.


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## hollowbody

Rick31797 said:


> Whiever wins this will have a awesome LP Japanese copy . Hard to find a custom model.
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160340693134


+1 - That Weddington is gorgeous!


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## Frantic_Rock

I believe the ESP Navigator are the top of the line from that market. 
Unfortunately the prices are up there, and when you add in the shipping, it might be better to go for a used Gibbo or heritage. 

I would go for a used heritage that you can steal off Ebay. 

If you are building a custom heritage - i would go with a Tonepros TOM bridge.

My custom heritage (9 Lbs weight) was $1600 us in 2003 - and features SAM mahogany, ebony board, MOP inlays, custom burst color, eastern maple AAA top, SD Antiquity humbuckers, nitro paint, sperzel pearl tuners, tonepros Alum bridge and tailpiece.


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## vasthorizon

antipole said:


> For the current Les Paul copies, I would say the Edwards provide the best bang for its price. For vintage pre-lawsuit copies, I cannot comment as I have never played one before though I would be interested in trying an 80's Burny and a 90's Orville.


*FYI, Edwards are not made in Japan. Edwards are made in China. Only the parts assembly are made in Japan. This was released by ESP.*

From the ESP headquarters:
" EDWARDS guitars are made in our ESP CHINA factory fully
(from wood working to painting) not by other OEM factories there.
and ONLY the final parts assembly and set-up are done at
our new tokyo factory. "

Full explanation here:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/other-les-pauls/43888-edwards-guitars-whole-story-more.html


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## Stonesy

You have been told.:bow:


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## vox_rox

Since everyone kind of went off topic from the poll, I thought I'd throw my $0.02 CDN worth into the mix. I just bought my first ever electric, and it's a Korean made Michael Kelly Patriot Vintage, used for $350 with coil tap and binding, I love this thing. And I never really like the look of LP guitars to start with, now I'm loving my LP copy - go figure.

Peace,
Pierre


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## puckhead

man, Tokai is running away with this thing.
oh well, gives me an excuse to post my 2001 Limited Edition :smile:


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## greco

puckhead said:


>


Beautiful looking LP... :bow:

Cheers

Dave


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## Guest

OK..I'll play too. Here's my Gession. It's a pre-les paul reborn
made by tokai. Here's something from japanaxe

Mysterious Pre Les Paul Reborns were available in the 70ies
on the Japanese domestic market with following labels:
Gaban
Gallan
Gibbon
Ganson
Gession
Grandy


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## sneakypete

OH...it`s in red...and so BIG...must be true then. I asked the guys in the local Rock Inn if it was true, they said no. I`ve read they also milled them in Korea. 
If they were milled in another country, it certainly would explain how they can sell them at the prices they do, but until I hear it from the company or someone in the know here in Japan, to me it`s just another rumor on the inter net. Not saying it`s not true...but just because it`s on the web doesn`t mean it is either. I own several Edwards from the Duncan series...don`t care for those that came before...and really like em so I`m not dissing them, just need something more than ...it says so on the Les Paul forum...or Harmony Central.


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## Guest

Strange(?). I highlighted in blue.









You may be right (I guess). I'm am going by the link 
I provided. And others sources over the years. 
I could be wrong too.
Just sharin' what I have.


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## Kenmac

Laristotle, I think Sneakypete was referring to the post made by Vasthorizon about Edwards guitars.


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## sneakypete

Kenmac said:


> Laristotle, I think Sneakypete was referring to the post made by Vasthorizon about Edwards guitars.


yes......thats correct.


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## Guest

Oops








I owe you an apology Pete.
I'll have to read the whole thread before commenting. 
Something I mentally take others to task for.


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## sneakypete

don`t worry...no offence taken.


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## videosigninc

I have the El Degas Les Paul copy as well - and it is a great guitar. Does anyone know what these are worth at this point????


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## Robert1950

videosigninc said:


> I have the El Degas Les Paul copy as well - and it is a great guitar. Does anyone know what these are worth at this point????


Do a search for El Degas in the Vintage forum. There was a really long thread on these guitars.


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## HarpBoy

I can't really say whether they are the best or not, being as I have no hands-on experience with the other MIJ Les Pauls, but I have a 2003 Epiphone Elite Gold Top that is absolutely superb. 

Cheers


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## Overt1

i have an edwards Les Paul Custom copy in vintage white. awesome awesome guitar and sexy as hell.


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## DaleH

Bacchus for me.


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## Frantic_Rock

I heard the top of the ESP line - Navigator was the top quality LP clone. But i never actually played one. Heard great things about Edwards and Tokai as well. But the demand for them is pretty high  And the supply not so much, because you have to pay for shipping from Tokyo, Japan. (125 USD, plus customs, etc)


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## praga37

absolutely fabulous Custom ya got there mate... I heard those Burnys kick ass all right.


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## praga37

*1985 Tokai LS-120*

Mine is a 1983 Tokai Love Rock which I prefer to any LP I had in the past ('77 LP Standard, '91 LP Standard). With its recent refret (Jumbos) and electronic overhaul - SD '59's, Kramer pots, Bumblebee caps, this baby sings the blues and screams hard rock riffs like no other in my collection.


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## bbigsby

Had an Mid 90's Orville with the guts replaced and pickups changed out to Gibson Burstbucker 2 and 3. This one one of my favoriate sounding guitars of all time.

I sold it because it sounded almost exaclty the same as my LP Historic VOS, and what is the point of having two guitars that sound identical.

I do have a Georgeous Greco LP, jumbo refret and Seth Lovers, it is better than most other LP Standards I have played. Has a very clear and open sound and looks like a 50 year old guitar. Don't think I would ever sell it as I have too much money into it. 

The new Korean Slash LP with the Sey-Duc Alnico pro II's are really good for the money.


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## tojoe

I've had both a Greco and a couple of Tokai Love Rocks, good guitars for sure prefer the Tokai's, saw a Yamano which looked promising..never seen a Navigator..still for the $ these we're cool around 5-800 anything above and you might as well hunt Gibson...


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## sneakypete

this is a good site to watch for the best MIJs made today...Crews, Fujigen, Tokai high ends, Sugi, Navigator, History, Cool-Z...among others. But the best don`t come cheap, used is the best bet however some will still find certain prices high but in my opinion you get what you pay for, and the best MIJs today rival anything MIA I see in shops in this Japanese city.

http://www.digimart.net/pub_gk_list.do?c1=1&c2=8


----------



## Drazden

Epi Elitists are phenomenal guitars. I've got one of the Les Pauls, and I've played a few more (Standards and Customs) and each one has been outstanding. I've heard that the higher-end Edwards are even better, but the Orvilles and Orville by Gibsons are about the same quality for a bunch more money. 

At the moment, I think a used Elitist (or a new one, if you can find a shop that will still stock them) is a great value, and I don't think they'll stay below $1000 for long.


----------



## djfacile

orville, I love it !


----------



## djfacile

seemes like I'm the only one....


----------



## LPguy

I have a Korean made Tokai 59 Sunburst replica. 

The pickups were decent but a little muddy. I put in a Dimarzio virtual PAF and Gibson pots and it's now one of the most versatile guitars I own. 

The playability of my Gibson's are slightly better but only slightly. Other than the pickups, I think the biggest difference soundwise between the Tokai and the Gibson comes from the wood and the finish. 

The Tokai is alder and covered in a poly finish which doesn't breath so it doesn't have quite the same resonance. Still it's darn close, plus a little lighter in weight. I also have a friend who's a pro musician who prefers stock Tokais over Gibson.


----------



## NB-SK

A bit of an update on the Epiphone SG (made in Japan). 

I emailed Gibson, curious to know what kind of pickups it came loaded with. 

I thought they might be Gotoh because I had read in another forum that it was Japanese hardware (hence, my previous post in this thread)...

Turns out that they are US-made 50SR and 50ST, the same found in some of the Epiphone Elite (I'm still not sure if that makes my guitar an Elite...Elites don't come with a lacquer finish, do they?). 

The guy at Gibson added something about these mysterious Epiphone pickups (info that is apparently hard to come by. I've read it suggested in a review in guitar magazine that the neck pickup is a '57): 

They are the equivalent of Gibson 490R and 498T.


----------



## NB-SK

bbigsby said:


> Had an Mid 90's Orville with the guts replaced and pickups changed out to Gibson Burstbucker 2 and 3. This one one of my favoriate sounding guitars of all time.
> 
> I sold it because it sounded almost exaclty the same as my LP Historic VOS, and what is the point of having two guitars that sound identical.
> 
> I do have a Georgeous Greco LP, jumbo refret and Seth Lovers, it is better than most other LP Standards I have played. Has a very clear and open sound and looks like a 50 year old guitar. Don't think I would ever sell it as I have too much money into it.
> 
> The new Korean Slash LP with the Sey-Duc Alnico pro II's are really good for the money.



Man, you're killing me. I've ordered an Orville by Les Paul LPC-57 straight from a store in Japan. It's in the mail. It just cleared customs. I'll have it tomorrow. The wait is killing me.

Apparently, one of the pickups is weak (probably just needs its height to be adjusted or one of the wires is loose at the jack). But, I'm wondering...You know, just in case. 

Do you figure it would sound good with the original '57 in the neck and a Burstbucker 3 in the bridge? I'm also tempted to replace the bridge pickup with a Dimarzio (keep changing my mind, but the Tone Zone and the Evolution are sounding pretty good to me...today). Any idea of that could also be a good match?


----------



## gtone

I've owned two MIJ LP copies over the years and both were excellent sounding and playing guitars. The first was a new Northern sunburst with a maple neck I bought from Bud Monahan's House of Guitars in Peterborough for about $275 in '79. Sold it a year later and then bought a used El Degas custom white with black trim, bound/crowned, gold hardware off a friend for $100. Wish I had 'em both today, but was too young/ignorant to appreciate how good these guits really were at the time.


----------



## dead mike

epiphone elitist


----------



## kazzelectro

I had a Tokai Les Paul Custom made in the 80s ...it was a TLC60 model...so not the really high end of Tokai...but still a guitar that sells for between $800 and $1000. I was taken by its looks but it never impressed me ...and I am one that has owned dozens of guitars...so I do know have a reasonable basis of comparison. Some Tokai models apparently are worth $2000+ and while they are beautifully made, and I assume sound great as well...I question paying that kind of money of a copy of a Gibson Les Paul. Why not buy the real thing. Orvilles look a more promising in that the Orville by Gibson models are finished in gloss lacquer...instead of the gloss plastic polyester that the vast majority of Japanese copies use....but i have never owned one either.


----------



## bcmatt

I'd love to see a chart of the features these copies have to know which are really worth it if you want a top quality guitar.

For example, which guitars are actually solid *mahogany* and *maple* and in how many pieces? Which ones have a *nitro finish* rather than poly? Do any of them offer these sorts of high end features. I understand that many need pickup upgrades, but that is totally fine, because lots of people swap those sorts of things. Hardware can be changed if you got a great quality base of good wood, finish and *craftsmanship*.

So, I guess I am curious which guitars offer *FULL bang* for less bucks than Gibson, because that's where I would be really interested to seek out and spend the money.
Ideally, I don't want to have to think about resale value at all because I know it has the basic building blocks to be a lifer.
That's what I'm curious about. Some people want maximum bang for a certain amount of bucks (which is totally fine too). I'm curious about getting the FULL Bang for the best price; and then how much that would be.


----------



## sneakypete

yeah wouldn`t we all love a chart like that eh...problem is, there were so many anomolies that it would probably be impossible, one offs, shop orders, stuff not listed in catalogs, different factories building guitars for the same brand, changes in line-ups and the propencity to mix and match parts...even Japanese authors seem to have a hell of a time tracking down reliable data since record keeping evidently was not a priority and they certainly love their secrets here, short of torture we may never know all the facts and those who might know em, if there are any, ain`t spilling the beans. Lots of guys seem to think they know all the answers and oddly, they seem to be outside Japan but I`ve learned to be wary of whats written on line, fun to read it all and old catalogs have certainly been helpful for me, but I`ve yet to find a web site that can actually claim to know it all...members at some sites aren`t shy about making that claim however.


----------



## MattKnight

Tokai. Only because I had one and wish I still did. 1984 Les Paul Custom in wine red ..it was awesome.. My only regret as far as letting a guitar go.


----------



## bolero

the tokai forum has all the catalogs of the old models...they break down the specs of each: solid/lam top, 1-2-3 piece back, pickup mfr, etc

great resource if you're into these things


http://www.tokaiforum.com/


----------



## BigNorm

pattste said:


> Three pages already and I can't believe nobody has mentioned the Epiphone Elitist. They are made in Japan and are easily available here in Canada. Excellent guitar for the money. If you want a japanese LP-copy, I think they're your best (and lower risk) bet.
> 
> But personally, for the same money, I would try every Gibson LP Studio that I could find in a 200 mile radius and buy one of those instead.


For having played both...believe me the Epi Elitist is far away ahead of a Gibson LP Studio. Not even comparable. And they are about the same price. The only thing missing on the Elitist is the logo that wear the studio.


----------



## crazydiamond

I had a nice Aria Pro LP copy I wish I never would have sold. kqoct


----------



## Archer

The Navigator line is the best Japanese Les Paul knock offs I have ever tried. Pricey though....not really any less expensive than a Gibson Les Paul.


----------



## Dieter Billinger

What makes a guitar the best is how well it will set up and not necessarily who's name is on the headstock. The parts used on Pacific Rim guitars are very much the same across the board. The rest is just fit trim and finish. I've seen some really inexpensive guitars yes even those that get dragged out of Wal-Mart set up very nicely and become very playable guitars. Ok so they don't sound like the real deal but through a practice amp who cares. 

best regards
Dieter


----------



## Frantic_Rock

I heard that the ESP Navigator are the best ones. But they are comparable in price to a used Gibson Les Paul, so maybe it's not a copy anymore. Haven't tried one, but that's what I heard.


----------



## WEEZY

I thought I already posted this but it must have been a different, similar thread a while ago.

My submission for best Japanese LP copy - *The Phoenix*

These were made between '82 and '85 approximately in the Tokai factory by Larry DiMarzio for the Canadian market. Loaded with Dimarzio pickups obviously and weighing a ton, this LP is a BEAST. I have put it up against some veery expensive Gibson's among others and the tone of the Phoenix is noticably superior. I will never part with this guitar - I've had it since 1984 when my dad bought it for me.


----------



## Hublocker

*Mine*

Does anyone else have a JWalkers guitar?

I bought one (a Les Paul copy) in about 1978 from a place on Granville St. in Vancouver called the Guitar Cellar.

They told me when I was buying it that it was a custom name and custom order guitar with extra windings on the pickups.

I just bought the guitar, not the story as I liked it right off the bat and have had the thing since then. I didn't play it much as I have been pretty serious about playing bass since 1976. But in the current band I'm in I was demoted from bass to lead guitar.

I usually play an Epiphone Dot that belongs to another band member or my Epiphone Casino, but on a whim I took the black Les Paul copy to a gig Saturday for the first time and played it all night except for 4 songs I played the baritone on.

It's really hot when you turn it up!

I decided I just HAD to know this guitar's origin, so on a hunch I looked up Ibanez guitars and they had an explanation on how to date them. So I looked at the back plate on the neck and sure enough, it has an Ibanez serial number.

It was made in September 1975, the 3,575th guitar that month.

I always like this axe and I like it even more now!


----------



## Bevo

Cool story and find!


----------



## J0hnnyCanuck

WEEZY said:


> I thought I already posted this but it must have been a different, similar thread a while ago.
> 
> My submission for best Japanese LP copy - *The Phoenix*
> 
> These were made between '82 and '85 approximately in the Tokai factory by Larry DiMarzio for the Canadian market. Loaded with Dimarzio pickups obviously and weighing a ton, this LP is a BEAST. I have put it up against some veery expensive Gibson's among others and the tone of the Phoenix is noticably superior. I will never part with this guitar - I've had it since 1984 when my dad bought it for me.


how do you date yours? I have an SN on the the back of my Mann, but I can't find much about it. PS very nice, looks like it's been enjoyed.


----------



## WEEZY

Mine was bought brand new in 1984, so it's either an '84 or '83. There are no serial numbers, or any numbers at all on it. You could probably read the date on the pots if you opened it up, but I think they only made these between '83 and '87, so it's mid eighties no matter what.


----------



## skimhit

Late to the party as usual...
I voted other .. I have a Jack and Danny ls 500 Christmas gift ty Mom.
It has slowly become my favorite guitar..
I cant believe my Godin,s have become#2&3.. 
Oops sorry it,s made in China


----------



## Buzz

I picked up an Austin Au786 cherry mahogany Les Paul copy with gold hardware at a pawn store and its great. Dirt cheap and it looks,plays, sounds better than some other copies I looked at. My buddys were even amazed by it. It could be made in Korea, China , or even Indonesia I'm not sure.


----------



## sneakypete

the best changes for me...got this one about 2 weeks ago...used as usual... it is a custom made ESP. Came with the original order form and the person who had it built spent 719,000 yen on it...so I have a record of everything that went into the guitar, sometimes with MIJs theres a element of mystery, especially with older ones, not the case here...there is a detailed list. Has the certificate that reads there is only one guitar like this one, along with other stuff including the model number...LP-719. It was ordered with Duncan JBs.
So...here it is...


----------



## sneakypete

if theres a better MIJ out there I`d really be impressed `cause this ESP is far and above my ability to play it but guitars like this just don`t come around very often, maybe in a big city like Tokyo but up here, naw, not very much so I had to buy it. Crazy for a guy who just plays on the sofa maybe but life`s too short and I`m taking advantage of every opportunity the guitar gods throw my way. I have a Navigator but this baby above is at another level so to this point it is my best Les Paul copy...and actually the pawn type place I bought it had a bunch of Gibsons on sale at less than I paid for this ESP but honestly it was no contest. So, after getting this ESP I sold my Gibson Les Paul standard last week over here, there are no Gibsons in the city that compare and I`m not bashing, I have nothing against Gibson... except maybe the prices... and I still have my SST Chet Atkins which I will never sell but when it comes to LP types, even my FGN is above and beyond what a great guitar is supposed to be. I am one lucky SOB.


----------



## jmb2

Voted "other" .... have tried some Yamaha guitars from the 70s and 80s that easily handled all the LP sounds I look and listen for


----------



## The Beatles Sound

EPIPHONE (logic : Gibson)


----------



## Steadfastly

With good luthiers all over the world, it doesn't matter whether a guitar comes from X country or Y country any longer. If you're going to buy a copy these days and you want a good one, it's best just to look at all the copies out there and choose the best one in your budget range and forget about which country it comes from.


----------



## kazzelectro

The really good japanese copies are so expensive that it puzzles me why anyone would pay that kind of money for a copy. ...personally I'd rather buy a true Gibson. I've owned a number of Japanese Les Paul copies and I would rate Greco and Orville up there as well built reasonably priced guitars. I had one Tokai...a Les Paul Custom from the 80s and I was never happy with it despite swapping pickups and trying to bring it to life.


----------



## kazzelectro

...one more thing about Orvilles....I am in the market for one so feel free to contact me [email protected]
Thanks


----------



## sneakypete

kazzelectro said:


> The really good japanese copies are so expensive that it puzzles me why anyone would pay that kind of money for a copy. ...personally I'd rather buy a true Gibson.



sometimes the MIJ copies are better made than the MIA Gibsons, thats why I buy Navigators...got another today. Guitars are wire and wood...the Japanese had been working those for centuries before Europeans even got an inkling to cross the ocean to see what was on the other side...stands to reason craftsmen of high caliber could be able to easily clone something as simple as a guitar, and they have been for decades...sorry, but there were some very dark years for Gibson there, not exactly top quality products. Not saying every single MIJ is worth owning either, they sure made their share of crap, but the top builders can out-Gibson Gibson...without the rough fret ends, or orange peel finishes, or swiss cheese chambered bodies. Now...not saying every single MIJ clone is worth owning but I am in a position of being able to compare the best MIAs with the best MIJs...the vast majority of which do not get exported...and frankly I have chosen my Navigators, Histories, Tokais and Grecos for a reason...they are better made...period. You`d have to come to Japan to see the very best they make. The Navigator I got today was $200.oo more than a used Gibson I saw in another shop this week, and frankly it was an easy decision to make. I`m down to my last Gibson...a Chet Atkins SST and I don`t foresee selling it, the Navigator I bought today, used of course, is light years ahead of any Gibson Standards in local shops, not bragging just stating fact.


----------



## stewboy

A buddy has an Edward LP copy. not sure if it's Japanese but very nice copy


----------



## sneakypete

Edwards were made for years before ESP decided to load them with Duncans around the turn of last decade, once they did the brand really took off, mostly overseas though...they still go for very little money on the used market in this city and for $300.00 to $400.oo they are probably the best used deal I can find locally. Older Edwards were quite a mixed bag...some real nice ones some that were pretty cheap. I have a few of the Duncan series and they are real nice. Picked up another used Navigator yesterday... now those are something else.


----------



## metallica86

I want buy Edwards from Japan store internet but just figure out that Ishibashi won't ship oversea anymore... I want to buy an used edwards and they have a lot in the store, Do anyone know where can I find one of these LP copy japan ?
thanks a lot


----------



## sneakypete

right, looks like Ishibashi won`t ship overseas from the U-Box anymore, go directly to e-bay. you`d have to watch the Digimart site.....some places say they ship overseas some won`t... or contact Rinkya for buying in Japan, they place bids on line for people outside the country for a fee.


----------



## Rick31797

Edwards make a nice LP copy.. I would like to have this one.
ESP Edwards E-LP-92CD White Duncan Long Tenon New Japan - eBay (item 380229584368 end time May-31-10 02:51:35 PDT)


----------



## metallica86

sneakypete said:


> right, looks like Ishibashi won`t ship overseas from the U-Box anymore, go directly to e-bay. you`d have to watch the Digimart site.....some places say they ship overseas some won`t... or contact Rinkya for buying in Japan, they place bids on line for people outside the country for a fee.


could you give me the link to digimart and rinkya site ?
thanks a lot


----------



## Gazoo

I've only heard one Tokai with a set of TV Jones pickups added. It sounded incredible.


----------



## sneakypete

Rinkya you can search for yourself, I`m in Japan so I never had to use them but people overseas do so they have a site...you`re going to have to help yourself a little.



digimart...

æ¥½å™¨æ¤œç´¢çµæžœï½œãƒ‡ã‚¸ãƒžãƒ¼ãƒˆ


----------



## metallica86

sneakypete said:


> Rinkya you can search for yourself, I`m in Japan so I never had to use them but people overseas do so they have a site...you`re going to have to help yourself a little.
> 
> 
> 
> digimart...
> 
> æ¥½å™¨æ¤œç´¢çµæžœï½œãƒ‡ã‚¸ãƒžãƒ¼ãƒˆ


thanks
I got it


----------



## Jaggery

All these Edwards LPs come in gigbags.
Really worried about ordering.
Anyone here have or know about damage and what happens
afterwards regarding insurance?


----------



## LowWatt

So frustrated. This is the thread I'm most interested in, but for some reason it's the only thread I've ever had a problem (functionally) with on GuitarsCanada. For some reason I see that it keep s getting updated, but I only see the occasional new post. Any ideas guys? Anyone else having the same problem (if you can see this post).


----------



## Brennan

Posts get marked as new and bumped up to the top anytime someone votes on the poll. It is fairly annoying, but you get used to it.


----------



## LowWatt

Brennan said:


> Posts get marked as new and bumped up to the top anytime someone votes on the poll. It is fairly annoying, but you get used to it.


That's what it is!!!

Thanks. It's been bothering me for a while, thinking I'm missing out on the awesome of this thread.


----------



## vasthorizon

A Navigator, hands down.


----------



## Rick31797

Here is a Burny LP for somebody,

1980 Burny Les Paul - Japan - Kingston Musical Instruments For Sale - Kijiji Kingston


----------



## plumber666

I wouldn't swap or sell my '77 Ibanez Black Beauty LP copy bolt on for anything.


----------



## Lemmy Hangslong

Tokai is very cool... but I voted other with ESP in mind... The Eclipse is close to a Les Paul but ESP have made them much closer.
Great guitars


----------



## midnightspecial

What about a Epiphone or PRS SE Single Cut? I've owned a few Epis and they are good guitars, drop in some Gibson pickups and you have nice pro quality guitar. Also if your set on a Jap built keep an eye out for a Northern, I recently did some work on a 70's LP copy and it was nice. I've found that all the ones you listed are very similar in quality so just find one that suits you. As far as vintage collectability an Orville By Gibson (they were the higher end with Gibson electronics) would hold good value.


----------



## Robert1950

I find this one the most interesting of the Edwards offerings:

ESP | EDWARDS | E-LP-130LTS/RE


----------



## Alex Csank

I voted Tokai, but Burny, Univox and Greco can be equally good for older guitars. As some have said, some of the newer ESP and other LP-Style guitars are very good quality products. But, as I always say: try it before you buy it! Having said that, I buy a lot of my stuff including guitars from E-Bay...but I know it's a gamble. I usually do OK, but sometimes I end up having to spend more fixing what is wrong with a guitar than it cost.

With the prices of good Tokais getting so high recently, I would look elsewhere for a better value. A really nice Tokai can actually be expensive enough to make one think about buying a new Epi or even a 'low-end' real McCoy.


----------



## hollowbody

So 2+ years after I started this thread, I've finally bought a LP copy (after I bought a real LP!). I found I wanted a backup guitar I can rely on to be similar in playability and tone as my #1 LP, as well as being able to have a guitar I can put in a different tuning and still have it feel a lot like my #1. Also, I take transit a lot and have found that LPs don't travel well, so I wanted something I can schlep around the city and not have to worry too much about.

So I went and got myself a 1982 Tokai LS-50. It's a beauty and plays fantastic. It's the bottom-of-the-heap for old Tokais, but it's still incredible. I have a Epi LP Standard here on loan to me and the Tokai absolutely smokes it in every way.


----------



## Tyler Savage

I have a Univox LP Junior double cut that blows away most current Gibson LP juniors I've played... so, so hard. Always have people asking me to buy it off me










Also have a 77? Greco LP Custom that I tried against a Gibson LP custom from the same year. The Gibson was a big darker .. *maaaybe* a bit thicker. But it was also like 5 pounds heavier. 
I kind of liked the sound of the Greco chambered body - it's a killer axe though and I doubt I'll ever get rid of it.


----------



## Stonesy

Rock'n Roll goin' on above!
Two of my two Tokais are made by Tokai.
Three of my four Burnys where made by Tokai.
One of my two Grecos is Tokai.
Look under the hood of your MIJ and if the Tenon is offset to the bass side, you gotta Tokai.


----------



## bolero

hollowbody said:


> So 2+ years after I started this thread, I've finally bought a LP copy (after I bought a real LP!). I found I wanted a backup guitar I can rely on to be similar in playability and tone as my #1 LP, as well as being able to have a guitar I can put in a different tuning and still have it feel a lot like my #1.
> 
> So I went and got myself a 1982 Tokai LS-50. It's a beauty and plays fantastic. It's the bottom-of-the-heap for old Tokais, but it's still incredible. I have a Epi LP Standard here on loan to me and the Tokai absolutely smokes it in every way.
> 
> those early Tokai's are great gtrs!! I prefer the LS50 & 60 because they don't have a veneer top


----------



## Zman

I read quite a few posts, and I am wondering why there isn't much mention of the Epiphone Elitist models. They have the US pickups already installed. I have an Elitist LP Custom and it is a wonderful guitar. I have heard many good things about the ones listed in the polls but have yet to try one out. The Epi is very close to my modded LP Classic GT, and my LP Standard.


----------



## BRXM

From past experience with Tokai's, I would have to say they are the best, if you can get a Japanese one, but I have a Korean Epiphone LP Ultra II and I chose it in a side by side comparison with a Gibson LP Studio. I replaced the pickups with a Rockfield SWC and a Dimarzio Super II, and I'm going to rip the circuit board out of it and rewire it with better coil tap pots, but the guitar itself plays amazing. One brand of guitar that seems to get ignored a lot is Vintage brand guitars. They come with Trevor Wilkinson hardware and pickups and in side by side comparisons with Gibsons, nobody has been able to tell them apart. Vintage Guitars from John Hornby Skewes – Vintage Electric Guitar Range, you can check them out here. These are supposed to be amazing by all reports.
BRXM


----------



## Kenmac

BRXM said:


> From past experience with Tokai's, I would have to say they are the best, if you can get a Japanese one, but I have a Korean Epiphone LP Ultra II and I chose it in a side by side comparison with a Gibson LP Studio. I replaced the pickups with a Rockfield SWC and a Dimarzio Super II, and I'm going to rip the circuit board out of it and rewire it with better coil tap pots, but the guitar itself plays amazing. One brand of guitar that seems to get ignored a lot is Vintage brand guitars. They come with Trevor Wilkinson hardware and pickups and in side by side comparisons with Gibsons, nobody has been able to tell them apart. Vintage Guitars from John Hornby Skewes – Vintage Electric Guitar Range, you can check them out here. These are supposed to be amazing by all reports.
> BRXM


I agree with you on the Vintage Brand guitars. When I joined up here back in 2007 I made a post about them here: http://www.guitarscanada.com/electric-guitar/3944-one-watch-vintage-brand-guitars.html

I ended up getting a "Lemon Drop" Vintage which I still play from time to time. And to keep on subject, I still play my Tokais on a fairly regular basis. )


----------



## GammyBird

Right now, the best one I've ever played would be my 93 Orville By Gibson 57LPS-RI....it's the one on the right.


----------



## BRXM

There is a store in Oakville called Mojo Music. The did a blindfolded side by side test with a Vintage SG, about 400 bucks, and a Gibson SG which one of the guys who works there owns, and the owner of the Gibson couldn't tell them apart with the blindfold on.


----------



## Zman

+1 on the Vintage guitars. I have a Vintage Icon Gold Top with the Stacked P90s and the Wilkinson hardware. It is a sweet guitar. I paid just over 400 for it but I had to get a fret level done. Now it plays perfectly. Good weight for an LP and a wonderful neck. I have several Gibsons and it plays as good as any of them. I really wanted the lemon drop but they had a 6 week wait. Pongetti's in Hamilton deals in Vintage guitars.


----------



## sneakypete

looks like Greco are building guitars in Japan again from what I see at the Digi mart site.


----------



## hollowbody

sneakypete said:


> looks like Greco are building guitars in Japan again from what I see at the Digi mart site.


Wonder what the quality is like compared to the 80's heyday.


----------



## AlcolmX

I've been considering ordering an Edwards LP for a while now, and after my disappointment with the 60s Tribute, an Edwards makes more and more sense. From what I've read, they're comaparable to a LP Standard and/or Traditional, and I'm sure they're heads and tails above the Tributes for roughly only $500 more. Has anyone ordered an Edwards from either eBay or Ishibashi (or any other Japanese retailer)? This has been discussed ad infinitum on other forums, but I've yet to hear about how ordering in Canada has worked out for anyone.


----------



## prodigal_son

Washburn WP-50. I know they are Korean but try one. You'll agree too.


----------



## EchoWD40

prodigal_son said:


> Washburn WP-50. I know they are Korean but try one. You'll agree too.


 try finding one lol.


----------



## AlcolmX

A friend left his Orville LP at my place last week, and I've been playing it non-stop... I'll probably suffer some kinda separation anxiety when he reclaims it! Plays like a dream and sounds stellar. He already stated that it's not for sale, but I'm gonna make an offer regardless.


----------



## bobb

Looks like this one could have been one of the best but Gibson is currently going after Saga over it. Guess they got too close.

Gladiator GG258 LP


----------



## Guest

*...or something 70's vintage perhaps??*

The Electra Guitar Page - Index of Models

Electra LP copies can still be found with a fair amount of regularity. Usually you will see Super Rock and Omega models. 

If you ever happen on to a RockStrad (x110) please do not waste your time on it and pm me immediately.


----------



## Guest

Never came across on e of those yet but will keep my eyes open for them


----------



## Darwin

I got one from Guitar Shelter on the digimart site. It was packed well, and I lucked out with customs.

I've heard great things about Ishibashi and yasoo on eBay. Go for it.


----------



## iblastoff

AlcolmX said:


> I've been considering ordering an Edwards LP for a while now, and after my disappointment with the 60s Tribute, an Edwards makes more and more sense. From what I've read, they're comaparable to a LP Standard and/or Traditional, and I'm sure they're heads and tails above the Tributes for roughly only $500 more. Has anyone ordered an Edwards from either eBay or Ishibashi (or any other Japanese retailer)? This has been discussed ad infinitum on other forums, but I've yet to hear about how ordering in Canada has worked out for anyone.


Ishibashi is where I got my fender 62 custom reissue telecaster. Fast shipping but be prepared to pay duty!

As for a good LP copy, just get an Agile. made in Korea.


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## BigDaddy

Check out the Rat Rods by Sparrow Guitars. They are quality instruments and best of all manufactured in Canada! http://www.encorev.com has some at wholesale prices now.


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## Latiator

BigDaddy said:


> Check out the Rat Rods by Sparrow Guitars. They are quality instruments and best of all manufactured in Canada! http://www.encorev.com has some at wholesale prices now.


Well...sorta. "Q: Where are Sparrow guitars made?
A: Parts of Sparrow Guitars are manufactured in South Korea, China, and Canada and then assembled, wired, set up, painted, and finished in Canada, in our Vancouver, BC facility. Our Custom Shop guitars and basses are 100% handmade here in Vancouver." http://sparrowguitars.com/resources


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## sulphur

Here's a FB page dedicated to MIJ guitars...

https://www.facebook.com/Koiz.Japan?sk=photos


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## steve 9999

I haven nt teied it yet but a friend of mine loves his agile in black,never had a problem tradin my 97 sg std for his mim strat to play with but he does nt let me have the agile,b-----d


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## captainbrew

Not copies but the now discontinued Epiphone Elitist Les Pauls are fantastic.


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## theruley

'nuther vote for the epi elitist series. If my house caught fire my elitist lp would be the first guitar I would grab.


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## MarkusV

Today I played someone's Gession LP knock-off (apparently done in the Tokai factory?)
From the 70's or 80's I believe
Japanese made,
I was blown away and I want it...

Markus V


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## Guest

Patience Markus .. I'm still considering it.
It's an early 70's. Here's a link to japanaxe
where I got the info that I could find.


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## MarkusV

Ha!

Now you will sleep with one eye open!!


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## Guest

Gripping my pillow tight!


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## middleagedfart

1979 Lotus/Morris Les Paul. Bought it on Ebay over 9 years ago...awesome lawsuit copy. All Gotoh hardware, Mahogany set neck and body, real mop inlay, Triple bound. Will not part with it..


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## Guest

Nice set up!

"Continued dark overnight, with widely scattered light by morning."
Al Sleet -your hippie dippy weather man.


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## Dan578867

I just got my Northern Lp Copy I love it and the Look of it. It has a real warm sound to it throught the neck pickup through my Crate GT15 amp. Currently it has a short and needs to be rewired so i have to wait to hear the bridge pickup. But first order of buisness is to repair the nut to play it more often and easier becasue 2 strings are really diging into the frets.
















Dan


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## sulphur

I have a Tokai Love Rocks and an MIJ Epiphone Standard.
Both nice guitars, but this is my favorite of them all...

80s Burny John Sykes model...


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## bluzfish

Ya gotta get a pic of that one in front of a black Harley! evilGuitar:Rock on, dude!


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## jimmythegeek

Love the Doyle 2X12. I have a 1X12 that blows my mind on a daily basis.


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## middleagedfart

jimmythegeek said:


> Love the Doyle 2X12. I have a 1X12 that blows my mind on a daily basis.


I run a set of vintage Goodmans Audiom 61's in it. Just love the dark tone those drivers bring. Makes even a solid state amp sound good..


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## sneakypete

juat passin` through building up my thread count is all....


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## hollowbody

My 82 Tokai LS50 went in for a setup the other day and the tech was loving it. He seemed really happy to be working on it. It's still my #1 Les Paul ahead of my 2007 Gibson Standard.


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## Dan578867

What about those Ibanez Custom Agents 2405?
Dan


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## warplanegrey

I love my el Degas LPC copy. It's pretty rad.


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## Short Circuit

I know this is an older thread that keeps coming back but I have to agree with warplanegrey on the ElDegas Les Paul.
Ya cant beat them 

Mark


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## Steadfastly

I'm not sure if I posted this here or not but for what you get, this is a very nice LP for under $700.00.


*Agile AL-3010 CSBF Wide Neck Thru*
Agile AL-3010 CSBF Wide Neck Thru









_*Neck-Thru Version of the Popular AL-3010!*

_*Neck-Thru* design with 5 piece (maple/walnut) neck for improved neck stability.
Special wide neck design.
*Solid mahogany *(not a multi-ply!) arch top body
*Graph Tech* RESOMAX NVS Harmonic Bridge with 6mm Posts and String Saver Saddles and matching tail piece
High quality *Canadian Flame Maple Top* (100% real wood top-not a photo top!)
*Triple bound* body, and headstock. Single binding on neck.
Chrome die-cast Grover tuners with 18-1 turning ratio for ultra fine tuning (Model 102-18C)
Two *Type V Alnico humbucker pickups* for warm, tradional sound
Improved wiring, *improved pots* (now higher voltage with brass shafts for reduced noise) and an *improved pickup selector switch*
Two volume and two tone controls, plus a three way pickup selector switch
13.7" (350mm) neck radius neck for _fast_ play and adjustable truss rod
*Ebony fretboard* with 22 Jumbo frets and real *Abalone* Trapezodial inlays
The AL-3000 features *D'addario* strings installed at the factory and a professionally cut *Graph Tech Tusq Nut*
Individually *hand filed frets* for professional feel and playability
Width of the neck at the nut: 1 3/4" (45mm); at the 21st fret: 2 3/16" (56mm)
Neck taper/thickness at the 1st fret: 3/4" (19.5 mm); at the 12th fret: 7/8" (22mm
Overall length: 40"; Scale length: 24.7"
Body thickness: 2" at edge; Width at the widest point: 13"
Actual Weight is only 10 lbs
How to pick the right AL model: _*AL Spec Comparison.*_

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]






















*$649.95 *


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## Dan578867

Theirs a Marlin LP Copy thats all original at a local pawnshop it looks almost like the el degas. Its 300.00 I like it but I kinda dont have alot of funds.
Dan
(My Ibanez 2405 sounds sweet anyone else have one)


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## Scotty

This poll should have included Epiphone Elitists


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## Scotty

Steadfastly said:


> I'm not sure if I posted this here or not but for what you get, this is a very nice LP for under $700.00.
> 
> 
> *Agile AL-3010 CSBF Wide Neck Thru*Agile AL-3010 CSBF Wide Neck Thru
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*Neck-Thru Version of the Popular AL-3010!*
> 
> _*Neck-Thru* design with 5 piece (maple/walnut) neck for improved neck stability.
> Special wide neck design.
> *Solid mahogany *(not a multi-ply!) arch top body
> *Graph Tech* RESOMAX NVS Harmonic Bridge with 6mm Posts and String Saver Saddles and matching tail piece
> High quality *Canadian Flame Maple Top* (100% real wood top-not a photo top!)
> *Triple bound* body, and headstock. Single binding on neck.
> Chrome die-cast Grover tuners with 18-1 turning ratio for ultra fine tuning (Model 102-18C)
> Two *Type V Alnico humbucker pickups* for warm, tradional sound
> Improved wiring, *improved pots* (now higher voltage with brass shafts for reduced noise) and an *improved pickup selector switch*
> Two volume and two tone controls, plus a three way pickup selector switch
> 13.7" (350mm) neck radius neck for _fast_ play and adjustable truss rod
> *Ebony fretboard* with 22 Jumbo frets and real *Abalone* Trapezodial inlays
> The AL-3000 features *D'addario* strings installed at the factory and a professionally cut *Graph Tech Tusq Nut*
> Individually *hand filed frets* for professional feel and playability
> Width of the neck at the nut: 1 3/4" (45mm); at the 21st fret: 2 3/16" (56mm)
> Neck taper/thickness at the 1st fret: 3/4" (19.5 mm); at the 12th fret: 7/8" (22mm
> Overall length: 40"; Scale length: 24.7"
> Body thickness: 2" at edge; Width at the widest point: 13"
> Actual Weight is only 10 lbs
> How to pick the right AL model: _*AL Spec Comparison.*_
> 
> [HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *$649.95 *


While Agiles look fantastic and I plan on owning one someday, they are made in S Korea if I'm not mistaken.


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## gerrydavey

Hi,
Do take a look at this guitar and tell me if it is similar to your one.
Regards
Gerard
https://plus.google.com/photos/101329686601984734490/albums/5884702900790399601?banner=pwa


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## Dan578867

Very Nice Gerry. Dan


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## Jeffly1

In Canada LP copies (e.g. the '73 2350) made by Ibanez were not allowed in the country. In the west they were brought in as Mann guitars and in the east as El Degas. I own 3. What I have found in my searches is that the models with gold hardware seem to be much better made. I have a Mann with chrome hardware and it is not even in the same league. I just bought the El Degas this year for $220 at a music store in Northern BC. It had been hanging there for years and was immersed in dust. One pup was dead. I gave it a good clean and put in G400 pups I got for $30 and my tech gave it his fantastic set-up for $50. I bought a mint used LP case for $60 ($300 retail). I took the very same guitar back up north with me and took it to the same guitar shop. He gasped. When he played it, he gasped again. He has played professionally his whole life and he was choked that he could not see the value in the guitar as a player. He loved that El Degas
This white El Degas and my sunburst Mann are so easy to play. Just like butter. So look for gold hardware, unbattered body and straight neck and decent frets. Mine are absolutely gorgeous and both were in the $300-$400 even after tech work. Both were made on the same assembly line as the Ibanez 2350 of 1973. Look in Canada for these gems cheap. Make sure they have the mustache headstock and the Gibson looking diamond headstock inlays done in Abalone. Those were the high end ones.


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## Guest

Welcome to the forum Jeffly (took you long enough to finally make a post, eh!? lol).
I had both throughout my life. More recently, a Mann Custom
with gold hardware/stock Dimarzios. Picked that up a few years
ago for next to nothing and flipped it for 4x's profit. Nice player.

This is my only Nippon that I'm keeping.
http://www.guitarscanada.com/showthread.php?11940-Best-Japanese-Les-Paul-Copy&p=216519#post216519


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## elburnando

scurrin1 said:


> I love reading these old list and actually appreciate the fact ARIAPRO 2 s are never mentioned . Thanks for everyone keeping cost low because most haven’t played them . I played Burney , Greco , Oraville.etc. I sold all my ones that they said were copied made domestically. Maybe I get lucky I bought 3 for pice of the one being copied exceptional players ..


Absolutely AriaPro 2 are exceptional. They price themselves out of the market IMO, but second to none.


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## Festus McCorkindale

Mooh said:


> Does it have to be Japanese? How about Taiwan, China, etc?
> 
> Just wondering.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


Sounds like the thread is on Japan only, but Eastman HAS to be a favourite if China enters the race???


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## MarkM

This is my MIJ bolt on LP from the late 70’s. Well all that is from Japan is the body and not the original tuners. Neck, PU’, pots, bridge, tail piece ,and switch have been replaced with quality parts.

This is a great guitar that I have learnt how to build a guitar.

Mistakes have been made!


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## AJ6stringsting

Evilmusician said:


> Love my 80's Burny Les Paul custom great guitars !:rockon:


Love it !!!!
Is that the John Sykes model ?


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