# Hidden Pickups



## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I'm working on a special project that requires hidden pickups - sort of like some of those Esquire Telecasters w/ the hidden neck pickup. Can't say I've ever played one as they are rare, I don't know how they sound.

This will be a Strat style body w/ a hidden full sized humbucker in the bridge position. A mock-up is below.

I know that the back of the pickguard shouldn't be shielded with any conductive material and that a hot pickup is normally used for such a setup. I also know I may have to route the pickup housing chamber depending on the type of humbucker I use.

Is there anything else I should know before this is done?
Anyone ever play a Strat w/ a hidden humbucker and know if there are any severe limitations on tone (too bassy, too muffled, etc.)?
Is there any pickguard material that is preferred for this install which will lessen magnetic interference?
Any special strings I should use? Stainless steel maybe for higher output and more mid-highs?


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

I saw a telecaster like that with a hidden neck pickup and it sounded great.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Interesting thread. I can't remember ever seeing a thread on this topic in this forum.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

The Cloud guitar is the first thing I thought of.

I have a Tele with a Bigsby where the Noiseless neck pickup is too far from strings. It sounds nice, but needs a clean boost if I want overdriven sounds.

A humbucker should be better.

I have an idea for a Jazzmaster with a floating pickup and either no controls or just the rhythm controls. You can always use a footpedal for volume.


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

In my opinion it will not give a good result, the pickups will be too far from the strings and the height will be impossible to adjust.

Maybe if your fret board would be equal to the body it could work.
But to work well for all the work it requires? I don't think so.


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## Smylight (Jun 28, 2016)

Anyone having experience with the Duncan Secret Agent? It’s supposed to be designed to work in this fashion, but I'm a bit doubtful seeing the specs.


Pierre
Guitares Torvisse


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Ici Torvisse






Seymour Duncan Secret Agent “review”.


The Secret Agent is in and I really liked it! I couldn’t find anything about it online so I’ll share my experience and I’ll try to be as detailed as possible. I recorded the video using my phone and it was quite loud in the room so the sound is not great. That was the first few minutes of...




www.tdpri.com





The Secret Agent is in and I really liked it! 

I couldn’t find anything about it online so I’ll share my experience and I’ll try to be as detailed as possible. 

I recorded the video using my phone and it was quite loud in the room so the sound is not great. That was the first few minutes of playing after I installed it.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Seeing as all of these guitars I'm working on have the lead pickup fairly close to the strings, this method will probably not work for this project. The guitar's tone might be overly compromised considering the pickup is not only covered by something, but it's been moved an additional 3/4" farther from the strings. That's going to kill gain.

I'm going to look at some cosmetic workarounds, like maybe paint a chrome pickup cover semi-gloss black or matte black to match the pickguard. It won't look as good, but at least the tone will more or less be preserved.

Thanks all.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Check out the Brad Paisley Esquire. It has that Secret Agent that Latole has demo‘d as well. There’s a video where they measured the pickup at 10K.

That might be the key, a really high output pickup, maybe custom wound, maybe make a humbucker out of those Secret Agent pickups?

The Fender Custom Shop has also done other Esquires with different pickups.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Consider that the signal-to-be-sensed, provided at the neck pickup location, is generally greater amplitude than that generated at the bridge, simply because the further the string-segment is from a fixed point (bridge, fret, nut), the more it can wiggle, and wiggling is what generates a voltage in the coil. This is why bridge pickups are generally wound hotter than neck or middle pickups.

The upshot is that a Tele neck pickup can be suck below the pickguard and still be sensed, perhaps not optimally, but still audibly. I would not expect the same from a middle or bridge pickup on a Strat, unless they were VERY hot.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

would you have to shave the heel of the neck down to get the strings closer? that much space, would it not affect how much is picked up by the pickup?


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## Smylight (Jun 28, 2016)

THRobinson said:


> would you have to shave the heel of the neck down to get the strings closer? that much space, would it not affect how much is picked up by the pickup?


I’m pretty sure you wouldn't like strings to be THAT close to the pickguard. And then your bridge wouldn't work as it’d be way too tall. There's a reason guitars are made the way they are. ;-)

Some reading on this idea having been previously pursued and fast abandoned by Fender and Rickenbacker might be in order.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_Marauder




Pierre
Guitares Torvisse


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Smylight said:


> I’m pretty sure you wouldn't like strings to be THAT close to the pickguard. And then your bridge wouldn't work as it’d be way too tall. There's a reason guitars are made the way they are. ;-)


Pickguard doesn't matter, so long as the strings are at least as far from the guard as they would have been from the pickups.

Bridge wise... I'd recess the bridge.

Not talking about having the neck flush with the surface of the guitar... just dropping everything 1/8" or so... basically, by the amount the pickups would have stuck out.


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## Smylight (Jun 28, 2016)

THRobinson said:


> Pickguard doesn't matter, so long as the strings are at least as far from the guard as they would have been from the pickups.
> 
> Bridge wise... I'd recess the bridge.
> 
> Not talking about having the neck flush with the surface of the guitar... just dropping everything 1/8" or so... basically, by the amount the pickups would have stuck out.


Well, try it then. You be the judge after all.


Pierre
Guitares Torvisse


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## TJSilljer (Aug 30, 2015)

I custom wound a pickup for a customer of mine


__
http://instagr.am/p/CPThVG5nnj4/

Should be able to see it there, I used extra tall alnico 5 magnets, if the bridge pickup on the guitar wasnt a single sized humbucker the neck pickup design would have kept up. In this case it was slightly less output than the bridge.

This can be done, I would use Alnico8 magnets or a ceramic design pickup under the bridge AND recess the bridge/adjust the neck / pocket.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I can't imagine such a pickup would deliver "stock" Telecaster tone. Not a criticism, though, just a reality. So if one effectively dispenses with "stock" tone using hidden pickups, why not use shorter A8 polepieces tofit in the route without having to machine more, and rotate the pickup as a "sidewinder"?


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Smylight said:


> Well, try it then. You be the judge after all.
> 
> Pierre
> Guitares Torvisse


Guy asked for ideas, I gave him some...


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## Smylight (Jun 28, 2016)

THRobinson said:


> Guy asked for ideas, I gave him some...


Sorry, my bad. I believed you were the OP.


Pierre
Guitares Torvisse


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I'm thinking that maybe I can slope the pickguard upwards slightly towards the bridge so it's not all that noticeable. I could heat the pickguard somewhat (or bend if aluminum) somewhere in the middle just a few mils to keep the screws rooted at the edges. And also grind out some material from the pickguard just above the pickup (but not enough to make the guard flimsy or ripple).

That way the pickup is much closer to the strings, almost as close as normal - and there's also less of an obstacle for its magnetic field.


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## copperhead (May 24, 2006)

Can be done but it's more of an optical thing & the tonal thing will not be optimized .


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

How so?


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