# Do upgrade wire harness really make a difference



## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

I’m debating on getting an upgraded wire harness for the guild but before I actually do so I want to ask does it makes difference? If so what are some solid companies that do stuff like that. I know darkmoon pickups will do one , but what other companies would be willing to do such a thing 


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Learn and practice how to solder and do your own?


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

laristotle said:


> Learn and practice how to solder and do your own?


But on a semi hollow seems a bit for a first time project. Maybe my old strat


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

silvertonebetty said:


> Maybe my old strat


Good choice.
There are a lot of 'how to' vids available. I'm sure that the experts here will eventually chime in with advice.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

First question: why? Are there functional issues? Scratchy pots can be cleaned.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I think the harness can make some LIMITED difference based on what "parts" the harness made from.

A Switchcraft jack is an essential replacement if your guitar has a poor quality jack...and many do.

The switch should be of good quality as it will get a lot of abuse through time.

The choice of the electronic value (I mean in microfarads... not how much it costs) of the capacitors should be what you prefer for your tone control. Be my guest as to what you decide that you want to pay for them. 

The pots (ideally) should have the torque and taper that you like. The electronic values (250K, 500K ,etc.) is a personal choice but will impact what you hear based on the pickups.

I prefer 22 gauge wire as it doesn't break at the solder joints as easily.

Just some of my personal thoughts for you to ponder.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

silvertonebetty said:


> But on a semi hollow seems a bit for a first time project.


Very accurate and logical thinking.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

keto said:


> First question: why? Are there functional issues? Scratchy pots can be cleaned.


Some more accurate and logical thinking.

I hold both of these forum members in very high esteem. Please listen to what they are writing.


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

Actually the biggest problem i have is the clip system the use lol. As far as noise not really just more so curious lol. I hear people say it makes a difference and others who say it doesn't. So I just figured I'd ask where people "who know what they are talking about" because this young fool needs to be taught lol


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

silvertonebetty said:


> ...because this young fool needs to be taught lol


IMO, You are not a (young) fool if you recognize that you don't know something, need to be taught and then take the initiative to ask.



silvertonebetty said:


> Actually the biggest problem i have is the clip system


What do you mean by this?


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

greco said:


> IMO, You are not a (young) fool if you recognize that you don't know something, need to be taught and then take the initiative to ask.
> 
> 
> What do you mean by this?


Well I guess thats not too far off. And they have a plastic clip coming from the pickups to wire harness.


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

greco said:


> IMO, You are not a (young) fool if you recognize that you don't know something, need to be taught and then take the initiative to ask.
> 
> 
> What do you mean by this?


Lol I totally miss read that lol . I can’t wait till I can get my glasses back . Yeah it took me a few bad decisions to learn to ask before buying something . I’ve actually called the long and Mcquaid tech a lot to ask questions on stuff. Like for the guild’s bridge issues I had a few ideas on what to do and I passed them by him . And he gave me his opinion so I think that’s the route that I’ll be taking.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

silvertonebetty said:


> Well I guess thats not too far off. And they have a plastic clip coming from the pickups to wire harness.


Well, if you mean connectors, between pickups and controls, they can be removed and hardwired, it would have been a manufacturing convenience I bet - hollowbody's are allegedly tough to work on, as you noted.

Mostly this stuff is for the 'cork sniffers', who have the budget and time to experiment with different things, or have to have things 'just so' or the perceived 'best'. It's a subset of the MODDING ILLNESS, from which I suffer but not that particular variety. I'm more the 'change the bridge, try 9 kinds of strings, maybe new preamp tubes in that amp. Hey, I need 4 new pedals for my board better flip 4 others' kind of sick guy. Pots capacitors and wires don't interest me as much.


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

keto said:


> Well, if you mean connectors, between pickups and controls, they can be removed and hardwired, it would have been a manufacturing convenience I bet - hollowbody's are allegedly tough to work on, as you noted.
> 
> Mostly this stuff is for the 'cork sniffers', who have the budget and time to experiment with different things, or have to have things 'just so' or the perceived 'best'. It's a subset of the MODDING ILLNESS, from which I suffer but not that particular variety. I'm more the 'change the bridge, try 9 kinds of strings, maybe new preamp tubes in that amp. Hey, I need 4 new pedals for my board better flip 4 others' kind of sick guy. Pots capacitors and wires don't interest me as much.


Yes and at the same time I’m halfway tempted on keeping them for the tv Jones filtertron for the convenience. But I do rather a straight connection myself. 


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

silvertonebetty said:


> But on a semi hollow seems a bit for a first time project. Maybe my old strat
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I did this on an Epiphone Dot. I had gone through several 335 style guitars and finally decided I would have to mod one to get the sound I wanted. I found a used Dot that played nice. As I was changing the pickups I decided I may as well do everything. I bought a kit from a guy in Surrey who advertises on Craig’s List. It had CTS pots and Switchcraft jack and switch. I usually do all my own soldering but with a semi hollow I liked that it was prebuilt to fit exactly. The wire used was quite stiff. I fished the jack through with a piece of string and rest I was able to push into place with fingers through the f hole. If I had built the harness my self I doubt it would have been that easy. Once the jack was in the rest was basically sitting in place beneath the holes in the body. I don’t know if it changed the sound because I did the pickups at the same time. The replacement parts were much better quality than the original. They should last longer but time will tell.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I've had a few repeat customers for my harnesses because people loved that I used Bourns pots and once they switched one guitar, they didn't like the feel of the pots on their other guitars. But most people replace harnesses on Chinese or Korean guitars because they think Chinese pots are bad. Or they don't like the Chinese switch. Or some people prefer audio vs linear pots or the other way around. Some people buy 4.onductor pups and decide they want to coil split...


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

knight_yyz said:


> I've had a few repeat customers for my harnesses because people loved that I used Bourns pots and once they switched one guitar, they didn't like the feel of the pots on their other guitars. But most people replace harnesses on Chinese or Korean guitars because they think Chinese pots are bad. Or they don't like the Chinese switch. Or some people prefer audio vs linear pots or the other way around. Some people buy 4.onductor pups and decide they want to coil split...


My guild is Korean. I know it works and I can get along with it . My new pickups come with the 4 conductor wires. I think that’s stupid being vintage output pickups 


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

silvertonebetty said:


> My guild is Korean. I know it works and I can get along with it . My new pickups come with the 4 conductor wires. I think that’s stupid being vintage output pickups
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why don't you use the new pups as two wire? or do you want to do some splitting options?


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

Jimmy_D said:


> Why don't you use the new pups as two wire? or do you want to do some splitting options?


I’ll be using them as 2 wire . After reading the description I realized long and McQuade only sold them in the four wire . 


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

silvertonebetty said:


> I’m debating on getting an upgraded wire harness for the guild but before I actually do so I want to ask does it makes difference?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



No. 
By the way we are a in amp Building/ Technical repair


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

Latole said:


> No.
> By the way we are a in amp Building/ Technical repair


Woops


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I can't say whether an upgraded harness would improve or change your tone to any perceptible degree, but it's a quick way to eliminate any and all wiring issues you may have with an old guitar, and quickly render it playable.

Maybe you have an old guitar with all original parts and don't want to devalue it in the process of making it work.

I know there's a member here who makes amazing looking wire harnesses. I think he makes them to order.

I like the idea myself. I can make one, but not nearly as well as that guy.

Sorry to whomever that is. My memory is not what it once was.


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

I’m not a modder, but I did upgrade the harness on my Squire Jazzmaster. However, I got the guitar really cheap and the pickup switch broke the day after I got it. I was going to have my tech do a setup anyway and a full wiring kit was not much more expensive than just the switch, so I took the plunge. My tech also shielded the pick guard for me which probably made the biggest difference of all. All in, I’m happy with the outcome. But I wouldn’t pay just to do the harness.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Milkman said:


> I know there's a member here who makes amazing looking wire harnesses. I think he makes them to order.
> 
> I like the idea myself. I can make one, but not nearly as well as that guy.
> 
> Sorry to whomever that is. My memory is not what it once was.


 Maybe @knight_yyz ?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

it is probably me. I've never seen anyone else advertising that they make harnesses on the side but i don't spend as much time in here as I used to.


As I said before the main reason to swap a harness is to replace cheap chinese electronics. The pots are usually ok, it's the switches and jacks that leave much to be desired. And most guitars seem to come with linear taper pots, when an audio taper pot is more pleasing to "most" ears. Most of my customers are shocked to find that the Bourns pots feel so much better than a CTS pot, that is how much torque is required to rotate the knob. Here is an example of a custom harness I made for an MIK 335. it had smaller than normal f holes so a full size pot would not fit....


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

My thoughts are that better wires, pots and switches with good soldering won't randomly fail from normal use.

Edit, posted just as knight did above.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

What can be extremely frustrating is the import vs domestic spline numbers on the pots.
Thank goodness that Next Gen provides this information. 
Potentiometers - Canada


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I recently swapped a harness in a 2019 Gibson Les Paul Junior Tribute. The customer was not happy with the sound. After removing the pickguard I found a Made in China jack (come on gibson really? you couldn't add 1 dollar to the price to make it genuine switchcraft?) The bridge ground wire was cold soldered so it was not making proper contact. I called him up and said I could just re-solder the wire but when I showed him the pics he still wanted to go with new electronics. And again another OMG these Bourns feel so much better... A few days later he brought his band mates duo sonic for the same treatment. Specifically for a faulty switch and the Bourns pots.


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## DeeTee (Apr 16, 2018)

I don't find it improves the tone, but it does make the controls much more useful. The usable taper on cheap pots tends to be a bit narrow. I had some volume pots where anything below 7 was virtually 0.


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

There are audio (A) pots and log ( B ) pots
B pots start to give more volume at beginning of their curse than A pots.
A pots give more a easy control

On guitar a quality A pots is mostly the one used

Keep original wiring if well made with non noise coming from wiring, you won't hear better tone with another wiring.
Pots may work different like Dee Tee write. Better pots won't give you a better tone.

If pots or switch are not noisy, there are no need to replace them. In case they are noisy, a good contact cleaner will fix them.
Better tone is from the pickups


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

FWIW....I have been doing commercial guitar repairs since the mid 80’s starting with Kalua Music on Kingston Rd.
If there is one piece of advice , it would be....
When changing the output jack whether it be standard panel mount or barrel style, I always replace with the stereo type.
With sleeve and ring connections tied to ground and the added pressure exerted on the jack plug by the additional contact,I have never had a problem or repeat for a funky jack connection.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

loudtubeamps said:


> Kalua Music on Kingston Rd


I grew up down the side street from there. Ridgemoor Ave.
Always stopped in after school to drool. Bought my first electric there, Univox LP.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

loudtubeamps said:


> With sleeve and ring connections tied to ground and the added pressure exerted on the jack plug by the additional contact,I have never had a problem or repeat for a funky jack connection.


Excellent suggestion/tip. Thanks!


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

Lot of good advice on this thread 


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

loudtubeamps said:


> FWIW....I have been doing commercial guitar repairs since the mid 80’s starting with Kalua Music on Kingston Rd.
> If there is one piece of advice , it would be....
> When changing the output jack whether it be standard panel mount or barrel style, I always replace with the stereo type.
> With sleeve and ring connections tied to ground and the added pressure exerted on the jack plug by the additional contact,I have never had a problem or repeat for a funky jack connection.


I never had problem with mono Switchcraft jack. I used them since 1970.
Fender use them since 1960 and they all work today
Wich brand do you use ?


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Latole said:


> I never had problem with mono Switchcraft jack. I used them since 1970.
> Fender use them since 1960 and they all work today
> Wich brand do you use ?


I would agree.... millions of good quality audio connectors still in use with a very low failure rate for the past 60 + years.
Amphenol, Switchcraft and Neutrik are the ones that come to mind.
The failures of _these_ connectors is primarily due to hard use/ misuse, especially with some guitar designs where the jack is located on the bottom ...Les Pauls and Tele’s for example.
Latole,your comment compels me to state the obvious .
Not all guitars, amplifiers , speaker cabinets etc. manufactured over the past 50 years are equipped with good quality components from the factory.
These are mostly the repairs / upgrades I am referring to.
Then we have the market that is flooded with offshore jack plugs and patch cables that can be an issue due to inferior materials and specifications being off with barrel diameters etc.
All of these problematic variables are easily addressed with the use of the stereo jack I have suggested.
FWIW Cheers.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

laristotle said:


> I grew up down the side street from there. Ridgemoor Ave.
> Always stopped in after school to drool. Bought my first electric there, Univox LP.


Ah ha, that was you then that left the mystery puddles on the floor near the guitar section.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

loudtubeamps said:


> Ah ha, that was you then that left the mystery puddles on the floor near the guitar section.


I noodled in the guitar section. The puddles were by the display cases where the fancy stuff was locked up. lol


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