# Anyone watching the "Vietnam War" series?



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Risky putting it here instead of in the "Political pundit" sub-forum, but since it IS a television show on PBS, about water that is now well under the bridge, I figured I'd treat it as such.

I missed the first episode on Sunday, having spent the evening (and a pleasant evening it was) with fellow forumites, but caught the second episode last night. I had heard filmmakers Ken Burns and Lynn Novick interviewed about it last week. It sounded fascinating, and last night's episode lived up to my expectations. I gather it will be broadcast on 10 consecutive nights (nothing gets pre-empted by football games on PBS), although it can also be streamed on-line. The film-makers do NOT recommend binge-watching.

To those of us of a certain age, JFK was a sacred figure of sorts. I still remember when our grade 7 teacher came back that Friday afternoon from a brief interruption at the classroom door, with a look of horror and disbelief, and broke the news. But of course, as 12 year-olds we knew nothing of what was going on legislatively, or in terms of policy decisions. We only knew who "the good guys and bad guys" were, and thought that Kennedy was a good guy. So, learning last night that it was Kennedy who initially authorized the use of Agent Orange, and who also ramped up American participation in Viet Nam, was a bit of a head turner. Not that "good guys" are incapable of making honest-but-poor policy decisions. But it was a side that had simply never dawned on us. Moreover, foreign policy is generally not something that very young people think about. We were far more concerned with what we were seeing on TV with respect to the civil rights movement.

One of the things the series contains a lot more of are tapes of conversations involving both Nixon and Johnson. In the interview, Burns and Novick both expressed a certain surprise for the way in which both presidents could switch topics from Viet Nam to more mundane matters.

In any event, I look forward to the rest of the series, and hope you do too. That war is something that many of us may think we know something about, but will learn we knew very little.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

I also did not know that Kennedy was responsible for the Agent Orange attacks.
Like you said Mark, back then it was about the 'good' guys and the 'bad' guys.
Politics and world issues did not matter to us 12 year old kids and i wish i could feel like that again. Was a simpler time for me.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

LOL I missed the first one too, PVR mishap...

I'm about half way through the second episode, good stuff so far. Neutral and lots of detail. I think it helps to have a bit of background, so perhaps more interesting for the older guys.


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## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

I saw the first episode and its looking good so far.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

One of my coworkers is watching it and he is really enjoying it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Burns & Novick apparently worked on the series for a decade. One of their priorities was to interview the oldest informants as soon as possible, Vietnamese and American, before they passed on. Some of the more interesting segments were current comments from journalists who had covered the war back in the early 60's.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

hmmm...i'll have to look out for it.

I wouldn't worry about this thread going political. At some point, political morphs into historical.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

I watched some of it. It doesn't come close except for the guy who still sleeps with a night light.
#mhammer.....you're lucky you know very little about 'Nam.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Burns & Novick apparently worked on the series for a decade. One of their priorities was to interview the oldest informants as soon as possible, Vietnamese and American, before they passed on. Some of the more interesting segments were current comments from journalists who had covered the war back in the early 60's.


Did they talk to guys like Pat Sajak?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> I watched some of it. It doesn't come close except for the guy who still sleeps with a night light.
> #mhammer.....you're lucky you know very little about 'Nam.


I knew a guy in 1971 who had served in the U.S. Army in Nam, and had come to Canada. He was a little messed up. He had been injured over there, and told me that if you timed everything _just_ right with your morphine treatments in the hospital, you could stay high all the time.

But I don't think the point of the series is to somehow make the military experience as real as possible for the viewer (though that is a part of it). Rather, the political decisions that led to the course and duration of the war, and the factors leading to those decisions, are more the focus. I think a great many of us were largely unaware of the shifting political landscape within South and North Vietnam. The taped conversations between LBJ and Robert McNamara are also quite illuminating.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Watched the first 2 episodes yesterday. Quite interesting. Thanks for the heads up on this one. Will be watching the rest of it.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> I watched some of it. It doesn't come close except for the guy who still sleeps with a night light.


Agreed. 

I think this thing is more a political documentary than anything else. Hopefully a useful one since they keep repeating the same administrative mistakes that were made in Vietnam.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

Looks like mhammer had the same idea.


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

Been waiting for it to start for a few months now. Happy with it so far!


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

This is the first I've heard of it. I look forward to checking it out. I'll probably watch it with the old man


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## NorlinNorm (Dec 31, 2016)

The Vietnam campaign totally fascinates me and it's, even more, interesting as I know a coworker who served...The stories are captivating and according to my friend many Vietnam war movies are accurate, basically, a bunch of guys sitting the jungle scared to death!...
I must try and track down this documentary, I hope it's available on YT or a live streaming site,


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

I'm missing it.

I will have to catch up on Sunday.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

NorlinNorm said:


> The Vietnam campaign totally fascinates me and it's, even more, interesting as I know a coworker who served...The stories are captivating and according to my friend many Vietnam war movies are accurate, basically, a bunch of guys sitting the jungle scared to death!...
> I must try and track down this documentary, I hope it's available on YT or a live streaming site,



Just google "PBS Vietnam" and it will find it. You can play it from there if you have a VPN extension (Hola) on your browser that will tell them you are within the US.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

I will check this out. a great documentary on Robert McNamara is " The fog of war" - Q&A format that shows how complex and entangled the matrix of decisions affecting wars is in real time. At the time of documentary, he was in his 80's and still sharp. The one line that stood with me and to paraphrase " sometimes you have to do a bit of evil in order to do good".


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## bluebayou (May 25, 2015)

Currently know some vets. At the time met numerous guys who were draft dodging. Both groups are deeply traumatized, for obvious different reasons. I cannot imagine being faced with the decisions they had to make at the age of 18. You don't have to agree with any particular side to imagine the decision. Personally, I was 18 in 1970 so would have been eligble for the draft. Scary as I reflect on the decision I would have had to make if I had been drafted. I was, as probably most were, totally inadequately mature or informed enough to make any decision about the war. I am forever grateful that I never had to make that decision.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Does the documentary show what happened when the guys came home?


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

Electraglide said:


> Does the documentary show what happened when the guys came home?


Not yet. It's only up to '67 now.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

SaucyJack said:


> Not yet. It's only up to '67 now.


They war had been on for 12 years by then. They were coming home in '67. Most didn't just stay there until the war was over. I wonder if they'll show some of the "home comings". I wonder too if they'll show much about the Canadian 'Nam Vets. Probably not on both counts. 
@NorlinNorm .....I know quite a few 'Nam vets, Canadian, American, I even worked with a couple of ARVN vets. A couple of guys I went to school with crossed the line and signed up. Most don't talk about it. A bunch over the years finally said screw it and went sideways.


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

I doubt they'll mention the Canadians who participated. When I lived in TO I knew a guy who was a Vietnam vet.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Alex said:


> I will check this out. a great documentary on Robert McNamara is " The fog of war" - Q&A format that shows how complex and entangled the matrix of decisions affecting wars is in real time. At the time of documentary, he was in his 80's and still sharp. The one line that stood with me and to paraphrase " sometimes you have to do a bit of evil in order to do good".


that was a good film.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

As a trained historian I am not normally a fan of popular histories, but Burns' work is _great_ - not only this Vietnam documentary but also his Civil War documentary (which was exceptional and which I _highly_ recommend to anyone with even a passing interest in the subject). I haven't gotten around to doing so yet, but for a while now I have been considering checking Amazon, etc. to see if his Civil War series is available. If it is, I will order both it and his Vietnam series. I put both of them on the same level as the BBC's World War II series _The World At War_ which was also exceptional, especially for its time. Come to think of it, I should check to see if that is available on DVD as well because my old VHS copy of that is getting rather old.

At the moment I am only watching this series in bits and pieces, not because I am not interested but because I am extremely busy with teaching this term (in addition to my usual classes I am teaching a couple of classes that I have never taught before) and also because I have studied the Vietnam war in some depth while in university (as I did with the Civil War as well). Also, one of my best friends and my roommate during the first couple of years of my PhD program did her PhD dissertation on the homecoming experiences of nurses who had served in the Vietnam war so I got significant exposure to the topic while she was working on that.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Yeah Burns is amazing. His Baseball series is incredible, if you have any interest in the history of the game. Lots of 'characters' in the early days of the game.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I've only watched the first episode and it looks great. 

I just wish they would run this over consecutive weeks instead of consecutive days. Who has time to watch it every night. I'm freeing up PVR space to store it as it will probably take me two months to work my way through it. But as said, most everything done by Burns has been exceptional. I wish I had more time to get into his baseball series, but again, every night. That requires a huge commitment I have a hard time giving.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Baseball gets 4 or 5 stars
Jazz gets about 3 stars

****Brooklyn Bridge
***Huey Long
**The Congress
****Empire of the Air
****The West
***Thomas Jefferson
**Frank Lloyd Wright
***Horatio's Drive
****Prohibition

I haven't seen these:
Unforgivable Blackness
The Dust Bowl
The Roosevelts

Lewis & Clark is 2 or 3 stars.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

I caught a lot of it last night just surfing around. I really don't think any documentary produced now would be totally factual and not biased. If you want the real deal watch stuff produced in the seventy's when things were actually happening. Just the same scares the hell out of me what those soldiers and civilians went through. Growing up a hour from Buffalo and being in my teens when it ended , we really did not get a lot of coverage on the war at the time in Canada..


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Distortion said:


> I caught a lot of it last night just surfing around. I really don't think any documentary produced now would be totally factual and not biased. If you want the real deal watch stuff produced in the seventy's when things were actually happening.



Nothing produced at the time could be factual as a lot of info was classified. Some still is, but there is far more available now than there was then. Also, considering the political climate at the time there is no way in hell that anything produced at that time could be unbiased. It is far easier to have a lesser amount of bias now that a few decades have passed.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Distortion said:


> I caught a lot of it last night just surfing around. I really don't think any documentary produced now would be totally factual and not biased. If you want the real deal watch stuff produced in the seventy's when things were actually happening. Just the same scares the hell out of me what those soldiers and civilians went through. Growing up a hour from Buffalo and being in my teens when it ended , we really did not get a lot of coverage on the war at the time in Canada..


documentaries usually have a message, an agenda...covering "both sides" of an issue without dismantling one of them, is considered bad entertainment today. news media has been reduced to inciting or feeding outrage more so than educating a viewer to come to their own conclusions. documentaries really just mean using more newsreel footage and fewer actors. it can still follow a pre-determined storyline, with omissions of facts. See: Michael Moore.

Surprisingly, Ive been watching a A&E special this month that has been remarkably even handed to both sides...The Laci Peterson story...although I'm sure some will feel strongly about it, our house was left feeling "maybe, even probably...he did it.....but he got so fucked over by the legal system to a point where you*almost* feel sorry for him for at least not getting a fair trial".


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

The Vietnam one isn't really holding my interest, too much minutae. Prohibition was OK but like 3/5 for me.

Roosevelts was good, though I have read tons on that era of American history so it filled in some personal blanks. I suspect you'd have to have some background interest to find it good, I don't think the whole thing would stand on its own for someone with zero knowledge of them or that era (1880-1945 ish though it begins earlier and ends later).


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## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

Diablo said:


> documentaries usually have a message, an agenda...covering "both sides" of an issue without dismantling one of them, is considered bad entertainment today. news media has been reduced to inciting or feeding outrage more so than educating a viewer to come to their own conclusions. documentaries really just mean using more newsreel footage and fewer actors. it can still follow a pre-determined storyline, with omissions of facts. See: Michael Moore.
> 
> Surprisingly, Ive been watching a A&E special this month that has been remarkably even handed to both sides...The Laci Peterson story...although I'm sure some will feel strongly about it, our house was left feeling "maybe, even probably...he did it.....but he got so fucked over by the legal system to a point where you*almost* feel sorry for him for at least not getting a fair trial".


I've been watching that one too....agree that it is been balanced in its approach. It was pretty much impossible for the guy to get a fair trial due to the never ending and often misleading media coverage. They definitely didn't prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt IMO.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

keto said:


> The Vietnam one isn't really holding my interest, too much minutae.


Its a little dry, I'm kind of enjoying it, but I'm not sure I can make it through all 18 hours.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Looked for it tonight...can't find it. What nights is it on? I'm on shaw and it sucks to find out what's on all week


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

Scotty said:


> Looked for it tonight...can't find it. What nights is it on? I'm on shaw and it sucks to find out what's on all week


PBS Monday - Thursday


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

SaucyJack said:


> PBS Monday - Thursday


Thanks. 

I caught an episode last night, not sure what channel


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

My neighbor is a nam vet from flarriduh. He's a messed up drunk and not long for this world. I'm glad I was too young for that.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

WTVS is playing the first 6 episodes on Sunday.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

Hammerhands said:


> WTVS is playing the first 6 episodes on Sunday.


good. Ive been taping them on the PVR, and I only have 2, 3 and 5. For some reason 1 and 4 didn't tape


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

zdogma said:


> good. Ive been taping them on the PVR, and I only have 2, 3 and 5. For some reason 1 and 4 didn't tape



They are replayed later each night so maybe setting the PVR to record both will ensure that they record, then you can just erase any duplicates.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

colchar said:


> They are replayed later each night so maybe setting the PVR to record both will ensure that they record, then you can just erase any duplicates.


Good idea. It doesn't seem like the search/autorecord series works for this one. It seems to tape some and miss others. I think I'll just have to go through manually and tape them. I checked on Sunday and no sign of the replays on PBS yet (Rogers) but they have been adding episodes all week, so I'll watch for them.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

zdogma said:


> Good idea. It doesn't seem like the search/autorecord series works for this one. It seems to tape some and miss others. I think I'll just have to go through manually and tape them. I checked on Sunday and no sign of the replays on PBS yet (Rogers) but they have been adding episodes all week, so I'll watch for them.



Oh you're on Rogers? Their PVR absolutely sucks - doesn't record programs that are set to record, claims there is no space for an hour long program when only about 75% of the recording space is being used, won't delete things, etc. Mine was fine until a couple of months ago when they forced the new software on me and it has sucked ever since. It is one of the reasons I am ditching Rogers.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

This website is pretty good. Try channel 163 or 164. It is also going to repeat Oct. 3.
TV Listings: Find Local TV Listings for your favorite Channels, TV Shows and Movies- Zap2it

For finding the programs, I've got the TV Guide app. You have to turn the sound off when you use it. I had used Yo.tv but they made it suck. The tvpassport.com website doesn't have listings past a couple of days.

My old Shaw PVR is pretty bad, you have to unplug it occasionally. My Mother's new one works well, most of the time.

I do most of my TV watching on my iPad these days. I've got something called an Hauppage Broadway. I have had trouble where it overheats and destroys the USB key.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I watch pretty much anything I want, when I want to. No need for a PVR or listings.











Although this series I am watching on the lap top right from PBS.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

colchar said:


> Nothing produced at the time could be factual as a lot of info was classified. Some still is, but there is far more available now than there was then. Also, considering the political climate at the time there is no way in hell that anything produced at that time could be unbiased. It is far easier to have a lesser amount of bias now that a few decades have passed.


At the time, late 60's and early 70's, there were a lot of guys coming home who didn't care what was classified and what wasn't. If they decided to tell their stories, they did. The movies clips, pictures and interviews used now were done at the time. I know Life magazine had pics of the monk burning, the ARVN officer shooting the pow and the girl running down the road. It's possibly far easier now, 'cause the forgotten are about 50 years older and the facts are getting a lot greyer. I wonder if they are going to cover fraging and the like in the documentaries.
"Fragging" and "Combat Refusals" in Vietnam


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

In the interview I heard with Burns and Novick, fragging was discussed, so I imsgine it will come up in the series. But again, the experience of the American military is only one small component of the intent of the series. They devote as much time to the experience of the south and north Vietnamese military, and spend much more time detailing the strategic decisions made by the leadership of each stakeholder group and how the thing took the direction it did.

But to underscore your own point, journalists had more liberty at that time to document what they wanted, and were less chaperoned by the military.

ADDENDUM: For a variety of reasons, we didn't get around to watching the Wed. and Thurs. segments, covering the '66-thru-'67 period, until last night and this morning. And while the series does not dwell on the experience of returning vets (at least so far), the experience of those who served on the front lines is conveyed in great, and painful, detail. In a sense, it does relay the psyche of returning vets, because it is abundantly clear that no one goes through what they went through, and witnessed, and comes out the other end unscathed and able to smoothly transition into daily American life. Gen. Westmoreland certainly doesn't come out shining, and neither does Pres. Johnson. There is much about the sequence of events that feels like a desperate gambler in Vegas or Atantic City, doubling down, and pawning everything he owns for the next roll of the dice or card-hand.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> At the time, late 60's and early 70's, there were a lot of guys coming home who didn't care what was classified and what wasn't. If they decided to tell their stories, they did. The movies clips, pictures and interviews used now were done at the time. I know Life magazine had pics of the monk burning, the ARVN officer shooting the pow and the girl running down the road. It's possibly far easier now, 'cause the forgotten are about 50 years older and the facts are getting a lot greyer. I wonder if they are going to cover fraging and the like in the documentaries.
> "Fragging" and "Combat Refusals" in Vietnam



I am well aware that people spoke out and that the media had access, but there was still an awful lot of information that was classified. Some still is, but much has come out therefore it is far easier to provide a more complete picture now than it was back then.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Jim DaddyO said:


> I watch pretty much anything I want, when I want to. No need for a PVR or listings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Care to give some more info? Cutting the chord is appealing.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

colchar said:


> Care to give some more info? Cutting the chord is appealing.



Sure, but it may be a bit of a meandering journey.

First....I am not too good with computers. I know enough to get me in trouble. I know less about the Android operating system, but I have my system working.

The easiest box to get would be one that has Android 5+ on it for an operating system. The newest version of Kodi is 17.x and requires at least Android 5. Kodi will run on your android phone. It also has versions for Windows, possibly Mac and Linux as well. As with anything computer more memory is better.

That being said....Kodi is an open source platform. I recently did up my neighbours box with Android 4.4.2 with a "fork" (a version of Kodi redeveloped by someone else) called SMPT and it works a treat. Kodi and it's forks are a free download. Originally developed so you could organise your entertainment system that has all your media files with small subprograms called addons. There are ones for movies, video, music, photos, etc.

So, now we have developers who have created addons that "scrape" the internet for other things like torrent sites for media you want. This is a gray area in Canada (less so in other countries). In Canada it is illegal to copy or distribute copyright material. It is not illegal to have it stream to your home where it is not being copied or stored or redistributed. These addon developers do it mostly as a hobby and sometimes you get good ones, sometimes bad, sometime malicious ones. The internet is your friend here. Sometimes a developer moves on to other things and the addon goes dead, or not kept up, or many other reasons people move on to other things. If you have an addon that you don't like, someone else will have another that you will.

On my box I use about 4 or 5 addons that I can get anything I want on it. There are thousands of them and some folks like to sell boxes with "builds" on them (a bunch of addons already installed). It's not hard to add or remove them. Like anything else computer, the less you have installed the better it runs. Addons typically search for updates when you turn on the box (unless you have automatic updates turned off), so if you have dozens of addons it can really hamper your performance at start up until everything updates. Part of the reason I only have a few, and have automatic updates turned off, but I get a notification on the screen if there are updates available.

The addons I use are Covenant, Elysium, Sports Devil, Canada IPTV, and a couple others I don't use much (Justin Sandercore from JustinGuitar on You Tube has one with all his free content on it). By the way, some addons have "dependencies" which they need to run. Not a big deal. For example some need the You Tube addon installed in order for it to run correctly, some need an addon called F4M, etc.

I can watch pretty much any TV show, movie, or sporting event I want, and I do. I turn on the TV, watch what I want, then turn the TV and box off with a power bar.....saves electricity too. Our viewing habits have changed radically since we have got the box. It's no longer on making background noise while we wait for a program to come on. You can also go back and watch older episodes and such, so no need for a PVR or anything like that.

Live sports is the hardest thing to get. That's just the way it is. BUT....I have found that the Canada IPTV works pretty good for it. I don't watch many sports, but I do follow NASCAR and I get a better picture on the android box and Canada IPTV with it's Acestreams than I ever got with cable.

Sometimes you get buffering issues. Again, that is the way things go. I have a 10mbps service, which is pretty slow, but I can still stream HD media.

Now, when you click on your TV show, for example, and then the episode you want to watch, the addon will scrape the internet for sources. It will come up with a list of sources, and usually the quality of the content. HD, SD and sometimes it will say "cam", indicating that someone went to the theatre with their cell phone and taped the movie (not the greatest option, wait a week, it will come up with a better source). If you have buffering problems, or interruptions, or maybe even kicking you out, you just click the stop button and select another source. It varies on what comes up when you click "stop", some bring you back to the screen with the sources, some back to the episode title, etc. It's pretty easy to figure out. If your don't find one that streams well, you can go back to the screen that has the episodes on it, click it again, and it will re-scrape and the list may come up with new sources.

I would say that the best bet would be to get an Android box with nothing pre-installed. Hard to find, but less is more. Then you can install just what you want. Yes, you can delete everything and start from scratch yourself too, including a fresh Kodi install. It's available at the Google Play store, free. Android has a web browser, though I am not too fond of it or how Chrome comes up on Android, nor even how You Tube comes up on it.

Now, the best resource I have found, so far, is the Ares Project. Their blog and forum are a big help. I run their Ares Wizard to install some things, others I have to install right from the repository (a repository is just that. A link to where all the programs and addons are stored). They also suss out and do not host links to malicious software and such. Just Google them and do some reading, it will all eventually become clearer as you read and experiment and ask questions.

I used to use TVADDONS, but they got hit with a huge lawsuit and were shut down for a while (along with ZEN, which is now Elysium...which is how things work on the internet, you take one down and it pops up somewhere else with a different name, the developers are computer nerds and for the most part they know how to cover their tracks). They are back up and running but they are not what they used to be and are no longer hosting addons the distribute copyright material. There is some good reading about their situation there though (including illegal search and seizure and a few other shenanigans that went on in Montreal with private search warrants and such), but I have found that when a question is asked on their forum they don't even allow discussion of certain addons, and a few of the posters there answer every question with rude statements indicating that if you don't like the free media you are getting, go back to paying for cable and such other comments. So I would just stick with the blog first, and then the forums, and the Ares Project.

I enjoy Game of Thrones, Ray Donovan, The Flash, Shameless, Gotham, Top Gear, The Grand Tour, The Big Bang Theory, and many more. Old shows like All in the Family, Sanford and Son too are there. I watch a movie now and then, Wonder Woman recently, all the Batman ones, IT is on the list of what I will watch. Older movies too, they are organised in a few different ways that are easy to figure out. By year, genre, popular, most watched, etc. I can watch a TV show as early as an hour after it airs, but I would wait a day or two for everything to catch up. We usually take an evening or two a week and watch a bunch of stuff and the TV is off for the remainder.

Hope this helps. If there is anything else I can touch on about it, just ask.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I saw last night's episode. I wish I started watching it from the beginning.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Just finished watching the whole series. Worth the watch. Very well done in my estimation.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

colchar said:


> I am well aware that people spoke out and that the media had access, but there was still an awful lot of information that was classified. Some still is, but much has come out therefore it is far easier to provide a more complete picture now than it was back then.


Possibly but some of the people, such as JFK and LBJ are not here anymore and can't tell their side of the story. Myself, I go with the guys that were there at the time.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> Possibly but some of the people, such as JFK and LBJ are not here anymore and can't tell their side of the story. Myself, I go with the guys that were there at the time.


You'll be pleased to know that many people who were involved in the thick of it, and are still alive, were interviewed. Since it was a 10-year project, Burns & Novick went straight for the oldest surviving witnesses at first, to interview them before they were gone. As for JFK and LBJ, one of the more interesting features in the series is recorded conversations between each of the presidents during the duration of the war, and various other officials. So, there are recorded conversations between LBJ and Robert McNamara and others. None of that was previously made available to the public. It is quite illuminating to hear. I look forward to hearing Nixon's conversations. Watching Walter Cronkite the other night was soul-chilling. There was a reason he was the most trusted man in America. He shot straight from the hip.

As I am fond of repeating ad nauseum here, the most treacherous slippery slope in politics is confusing partisan and personal interest with the public interest. The conversations between LBJ and others underscore this nicely. It was clear early on that the war would be unwinnable, and that lives and treasure were being squandered for no value added. But as LBJ's term went on, he seemed to become more deeply invested in "winning", especially as the presidential election drew nearer. His was a paradoxical presidency, including both important changes in civil rights, but also the increasing involvement in the war, and the ultimately pointless drafting and scarring of so many young men and women. Hard to imagine they had over half a million troops there at various points, and that the generals would put in requests for another 20,000 here and 100,000 there.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> Possibly but some of the people, such as JFK and LBJ are not here anymore and can't tell their side of the story. Myself, I go with the guys that were there at the time.



Even if they are not here any more virtually everything they did, said, wrote, etc. will have been preserved. Whether the archives have released that stuff or not is another question.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

I'm at about 20 minutes in to the 4th episode.

The war was a like a curse the French passed to the Americans.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I just found out five minutes ago that it's a KEN BURNS documentary! At some time I will have to watch it. And, whether you are into Jazz or not, you have to watch his documentary on JAZZ


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

colchar said:


> Even if they are not here any more virtually everything they did, said, wrote, etc. will have been preserved. Whether the archives have released that stuff or not is another question.


I doubt it. You figure nixon was the only one who erased things. Me, I'll go with the guys who were on the ground.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

And I'll repeat: they interview a lot of guys who were "on the ground". You should set your resentment and suspicion aside and give it a chance. I don't think you'll be disappointed.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

really enjoying this so far (3 episodes) but the length of it can really test your attention span.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Diablo said:


> really enjoying this so far (3 episodes) but the length of it can really test your attention span.


Uh-huh. My wife has asked "You still awake?" more than once. Damn recliners. When we bought it, I told her "You'll never see the end of a movie ever again.". I should have added "...or the end of any documentary running more than an hour".


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I got through the whole series. There is a ton to digest, but it is good enough I won't mind watching it again.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Yep they lured you in with all the blood and guts and now they are rocking you to sleep with what went on in the states with the draft dodgers, protests and politicians.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I'll definitely need to watch it from the beginning. Powerful stuff....


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mhammer said:


> And I'll repeat: they interview a lot of guys who were "on the ground". You should set your resentment and suspicion aside and give it a chance. I don't think you'll be disappointed.


How many is, "a lot" ? 10.....maybe 15? for what one or two minutes each.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Your scepticism suggests you were expecting them to make an entirely different film. You can't walk into "Boots R Us" and complain because they don't have sandals in your size, friend. Somebody else has likely made the doc you want. This is a different one.

Not that the truth you want told is unimportant, but there are a LOT of truths that need to be told about this period, and this is simply a few of them, not all of them.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

To some, everything made after about 1974 is crap. I don't think this was, but as always, YMMV.

I really enjoyed it. This was the first 'significant news story' I remember growing up, from the Tet Offensive to seeing a little news blurb that the Vietnam war was over. But I never had a good sense of what really happened in chronological order. This filled in a lot of blanks and didn't pull many punches, IMO. It tried to represent both sides and give them both some perspective - something we would never have seen 4 decades ago. 

I really liked the interviews with future politicos like McCain and Kerry (with hair that nice, how was he not a POTUS - he would have surely been a PM  ). And the wrap-up at the end where it provide closure for the many people they got close and personal with.

One of the post show 'ads' I saw had Burns talking about a significant C&W documentary, which I am now looking forward to. I wouldn't have been a decade ago, but I'm older and wiser and a little more tolerant of things I didn't think I like now. 

I still wish they'd run a couple episodes a week, instead of so much content in such a short period of time. I'm a little behind on a few things now, not the least guitar practice. %h(*&


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

> Listen Now: Episode 1: "We are possessed by a desire not to know about Vietnam."
> 
> Want to learn more about the Vietnam War? Go behind the scenes of the making of Ken Burns’ Vietnam War series with the Washington Post’s new podcast, “The American War.” The first episode takes a close look at the lies Americans tell ourselves about the war and the pieces of history we choose to ignore. Listen to the podcast alongside the documentary, or just on its own. Tap below to hear more.


I haven't watched the series yet, but will definitely be listening to the NPR show.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but the boxed set for this series was about $75-$100 for the longest time and I thought people would like to know that Amazon Canada currently has it for $34.31. I ordered yesterday and it should arrive tomorrow.

Here is the link for anyone who is interested:

https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B071YDKZRX/ref=pe_3034960_236394800_TE_dp_2


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Happy (?) viewing. I suspect that being able to binge-watch it must be a bit like visiting the monument in D.C.. As the series progresses, one feels like one is wading deeper and deeper into an abyss (or "the big muddy", as Pete Seeger called it).


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

When the choice is between binge watching something and doing actual work, we all know which option will win!

I actually bought it because I thought it was incredibly well done, but I missed some episodes when it was on and a couple of other episodes I only paid partial attention to because I was busy doing other stuff at the same time. This way I can watch it at my leisure and can pay attention to all of it.

Next up is his Civil War documentary, which was also incredibly well done. But the prices for that DVD set are still stupidly high so I'll just keep my eyes open to see if the price drops.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Somewhere along the viewing, you should also watch The Post. It'd dovetail in nicely and would be a nice break from the documentary style. Just a thought.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I noticed season one is on Netflix if anyone is interested.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks for the heads-up. Good on them for carrying it.
I do not recommend binge-watching. Two consecutive episodes is probably about as much as any anti-depressant or therapy session can handle.


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## Daniel Grenier (Jun 24, 2008)

mhammer said:


> ......
> 
> In any event, I look forward to the rest of the series, and hope you do too. That war is something that many of us may think we know something about, but will learn we knew very little.


Old post, I know, but new to me. Thanks kindly for posting. I will wait for the series to be available as a whole and binge watch. I compare PBS and Ken Burns to Martin guitars in terms of quality. First rate, simply.

I kind of “lived” the Vietnam War in a way as I joined the Canadian Forces in 1969 as a radar technician switching to cryptographic and communicatin systems tech working with/for the CSE and NSA and, indirectly, the CIA. At the time, we Canadians knew, or knew someone who knew, a “draft dodger” who came here to avoid going to that useless, insane and eventually pointless death place called Vietnam. We certainly were well aware of this war and it sure wasn’t popular in most circles.

Anyway, at the end of the war, the Canadian Government without any fanfare of any kind sent a communications unit to Cambodia to facilitate comms during the final US exit out of there. My unit in Trenton at the time sent a number of guys on this “covert” mission. I actually wanted to go pretty bad but they actually did not need technicians for this relatively short mission. Some of my buddies Operators did go and saw, from a good distance, the end of that completely pointless, brutal and deadly war.

Later on, in the mid 80s, one of the Commissionaires who worked with us at the NATO Satellite Ground Terminal in Carp near Ottawa had actually volunteered to be in the US Marines and had wanted to go to Vietnam. Of course, he was promptly sent over (along with an unbelievable number of other Canadians...what they were thinking I’ll never know). Anyway, this guy did not get wounded but came back with a bad case of PTSD. He was ok one minute, next minute he would be shaking and sweating etc (and understandably). One night, we found him climbing up and down the wire fence around the compound. He was in a state of serious mental breakdown no doubt brought on by this crazy experience in Vietnam. He left very soon after and I have no idea what happened to him but I often wonder what his life is like, if he is still alive.

More Vietnam vets killed themselves than actually died during combat. A testament to the brutality and insanity of war.

All right, sorry for the winded and long reply there, mhammer, and thanks again for the interesting post.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

mhammer said:


> Risky putting it here instead of in the "Political pundit" sub-forum, but since it IS a television show on PBS, about water that is now well under the bridge, I figured I'd treat it as such.
> 
> I missed the first episode on Sunday, having spent the evening (and a pleasant evening it was) with fellow forumites, but caught the second episode last night. I had heard filmmakers Ken Burns and Lynn Novick interviewed about it last week. It sounded fascinating, and last night's episode lived up to my expectations. I gather it will be broadcast on 10 consecutive nights (nothing gets pre-empted by football games on PBS), although it can also be streamed on-line. The film-makers do NOT recommend binge-watching. <snip>


The full ten-episode series is available at the world center for binge-watching, Netflix.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Scotty said:


> Looked for it tonight...can't find it. What nights is it on? I'm on shaw and it sucks to find out what's on all week





butterknucket said:


> I saw last night's episode. I wish I started watching it from the beginning.


The entire series is on Netflix now.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

It is being re run on PBS. Caught a bit of it last night. They were in 1966 so it is probably at the beginning. I think it was Ch 17 out of Buffalo.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

boyscout said:


> The entire series is on Netflix now.


Thanks, watched it a week ago


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

boyscout said:


> The entire series is on Netflix now.


See my post from earlier today about it being on Netflix now.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

boyscout said:


> The entire series is on Netflix now.


See my post from earlier today about it being on Netflix now.


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## brucew (Dec 30, 2017)

Finding it very interesting. Lot's of things leading up to it I simply didn't know. It actually has explained a lot of things I didn't realize on the world scale and seems to be simply history, rather than twisting history to push an agenda one way or another which, quite frankly is refreshing in today's twisted world.

Another good one on netflix is about the Am. civil war. No new info to me, but well made.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I know next to nothing about the Vietnam War, so it will be good to get some perspective on it.


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