# Amp distortion VS outboard distortion



## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

I should do a poll but rather have everyones opinion.

A few weeks ago at the guitar shop I got into this chat with one of the guys and it has been nagging at me.
It was summed up by a clean pristine Fender tone jacked up with a distortion pedal, it turned into a monster.

Obviously lots of amps have its own feel,tone, amount of distortion that make it what it is. Trying to match that in a pedal is just not the best way to go.
Saying that, some pedals have incredible tones that can be added to the most clean amps.

Cranking my Engle on the weekend made me love and hate my amp. It was the most amazing tone I ever heard but at obscene levels for a house. If i was playing Metal live it would be amazing but 90% is played at home below 1, still sounds good but no where the same.

So two questions to think about mostly higher gain related.

How do you feel about tube amp gain at high volume low distortion levels ( higher volume= less gain yet more distortion)

How do you feel about a clean amp with pedal distortion at all volume levels?

Sometimes I think I should pick up a high resale amp and just use the pedals for my distortion. 
Honestly, the amount of time I can crank my amp is not enough.

let me know your thoughts..


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Another option for you is to pick up a Ho's Attenuator. A little expensive but very very worth it. I was playing my 18W this morning using the Ho's Attenuator - sounded fantastic.

I also use a Tonebone Hot British pedal. Great sounding pedal and very versatile. You do have to crank it a bit but it sounds great.

Which do I prefer? The tube distortion with an Attenuator (cause I'm a basement rocker), although the Hot British sounds great too.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Stratin2traynor said:


> Another option for you is to pick up a Ho's Attenuator. A little expensive but very very worth it. I was playing my 18W this morning using the Ho's Attenuator - sounded fantastic.
> 
> I also use a Tonebone Hot British pedal. Great sounding pedal and very versatile. You do have to crank it a bit but it sounds great.
> 
> Which do I prefer? The tube distortion with an Attenuator (cause I'm a basement rocker), although the Hot British sounds great too.


I'm still all for a pedal for overdrive. I have a Traynor YGL-3 that is hard as heck to naturally overdrive, and when it does, it doesn't sound all that great anyway, but that's fine because it's not what it was designed for, nor how I want to use it.

I also have a JTM45, and despite its 30 or so watts, getting it to naturally break up is hard as well. It gets mightly loud real fast. I got a Dr. Z attenuator for it, and that certainly helps, but it's still way too loud at any serious breakup level.

Tube amps are just plain loud no matter how you slice it. I definitely don't get the opportunity to crank my amps as often as I'd like, so I go with my OCD pedal and my Timmy.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

I'm all for the Timmy and OCD (I have them both - great pedals) but that 18W sounds great when it's cranked and with the Ho Attenuator it sounds exactly the same just quieter. I bought the 10W version of the Attenuator so I can have that 18W cranked sound at talking levels. It's great.

I can imagine that some amps don't sound that great cranked but the ones I have do. Having said that, pedals are definitely a great alternative. Some sound great.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I prefer amp distortion from what I've heard amps + boosts do. That said, if you can get amazing tone from a pedal into an amp, by all means do. Nothing sounds quite like my LP into my modded tubescreamer into a clean channel - because no amp has that circuit for their drive channel lol.

A dual pedal w/ OD and distortion that has enough gain and the proper voicing for bluesy/rock OD and technical prog metal, well that'd be great!

I'm glad the mesa sounds ok at low volumes (especially now that it's back at the house for the break), but it sounds best on 4 or higher.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

As you have noted, amp distortion, power tube distortion that is, requires a massive amount of volume even on lower wattage amps. Some amps have decent master volumes (I love my Boogie Mk I), but I don't think you are hearing the power tubes so much as the pre amp tubes. The only economical way to get "that tone" at reasonable volume is using distortion/overdrive/fuzz pedals. I use em all. 

Other options are good quality attenuators (most of them suck tone, and the good ones are not cheap), an isolation box mic'ed into a PA, Palmer PDI or some other direct box (eg Ethos) into PA, Power Scaling mods, etc. All other options are more expensive and not practical for most.

An amp dialed in clean, with a pedal or two is the best way to go IMO. 

OTOH, no matter how hard you will try, there is nothing like a cranked JMP, AC30, tweed Deluxe, etc to get that interaction and feedback between amp/guitar/player going.

:rockon2:

Pete


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

I usually go with what sounds best. It all depends on the guitar and amp I am using.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Just wanted to add that I use distortions, OD and fuzzes but what I've found is that in order to get a great tone out of a lot of pedals, you have to turn the level way up. Using the gain knob on a pedal, especially on a brighter Fender type clean amp - usually only gets you a buzzy type OD or distortion. That's been my experience with my DRRI. 

Since I am a basement player (so far) I need the attenuator to get the great tones at a decent level - whether I am going for power tube distortion or pedal.


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## mrfiftyfour (Jun 29, 2008)

EQ and compression pedals can be used to juice the tubes as well.


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## SteveS (Apr 25, 2006)

I have a Shiva combo and have three great sounds on tap.

Clean, crunch and boost.

The Shiva has a fantastic master volume so you can get a great sound out of it easily at any volume.

I much prefer the crunch sound of it versus a clean platform with pedals.

That said, at very low volumes it does sound better with a clean boost. I use a Sparkledrive set clean, and it works fine.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

I was very content with my amps at lower volumes using the master to get the Pre amp going. That power tube distortion is something else..I want more!

Last night I hooked up my distortion pedal to the clean channel and set it up how I like it. Comparing amp to pedal distortion at that level the pedal was much better.

As mentioned above an Attenuator may be the best option to get the amp working at a higher output lower volume level.
Have you seen anything in the Toronto area?
Think I need 8 ohm.

Maybe the answer is not which one but what you need right now. The solution is to probably have the right Pedal, Attenuator and Amp.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Bevo, just so i understand properly, you're a bedroom player with the occasional jam right?...not playing in live situations or with a band?. ...

My first question would be why on earth do you use a ENGL?..those one hell of a powerfull amp that, like marshall, need to be cranked to sound porperly unless the preamp is run at 10 all the time. 

Personnaly i've never heard a distortion pedal come close to the naturall gain of an amp cranked.. I use an Orange Rockerverb 50w, and it's ONE loud MF as well, but even at bedroom level, it sounds awsome, with the preamp at 10 naturally, but the more louder i go, the preamp goes down to get the same tone. at 10, it's WAY to dirty. we play from Hendrix to Metalica, Antrax, etc etc, so i do need it to be dirty and have massinge bottom end. 

Maybe your solution is a small version, 10 to 15w that can be driven at home!...


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Its a 60 watt version so not too crazy.

The lower watt amps have a place but to get tubes cooking on a 15 watt amp is still crazy loud. My BH on 7 watts through my 2-12 is still crazy yet the tubes are cooking.

That amp just sounds so good, I have to get an attenuator to get that sound all the time.


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## soldierscry (Jan 20, 2008)

For me I mainly use my amps drive/distortion (I have a H&K switchblade so I have lots to choose from) and pedals for boosting and for my fuzz sounds.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

For me, I've found that power tube distortion is what I need (for tone and for feel).
In order to get that I mostly use my Trainwreck Liverpool clone which is about a 30 watt amp with no master volume. I'm not much of a fan of Master volumes, but I still prefer preamp gain to most pedals. But to get the tone I like the amp is set naturally loud enough to shake a building quite well.

So, to reign in volume I have a Variable Voltage Regulator installed in all my amps (it's basically power scaling). It can bring it right down to bedroom levels. I feel it keeps the tone, but right around the 9 o'clock mark on my VVR knob it seems to cross a line that really makes me lose a lot of the feel and interaction between the guitar and speakers. I still like the sound of the VVR compared to the Attenuators that I have tried, but when things get quiet enough, all the joy is lost. I think it is because the speaker is just moving too little to react the way I want it too. I think I need a certain amount of moving air to get my ideal sound.

So, my best that I've found for low volume tone still remains to be the VVR. It sounds great bringing it down to much lower volumes, but speakers still need a certain amount of volume too.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Al3d, ENGL's are known for their capacity to have a great tone at house volumes


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## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

Budda said:


> Al3d, ENGL's are known for their capacity to have a great tone at house volumes


After having demo'd a few ENGL's, I would have to agree. ENGL's have the some of the best amp distortion I've ever heard, at any volume. They also have great clean channels. I'd highly recommend the ENGL Screamer for basement/bedroom players, but I'd also recommend it for gigging bars and small clubs.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

My next amp *might* be an Invader 100.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

When I was young and playing in a glam/thrash metal band, my co-guitarist fed me some info that his guitar teacher/mentor told him "all amps should be set to a clean tone and your effects should be what generates your overdrive/distorion". I lost a lot of time struggling through some really crappy tone (with a Traynor SS amp and a Roland GP-8) as the result of this philosophy. I wish I could have punched them both in the mouth. I dont know why I even listened to him, I always hated my co-guitarists fizzy distorted tone.

I'm a firm believer in a good tube amp creating about 70% of your dirty tone and an OD taking it to the max.

Effects can do a distorted tone, but IMO it sounds too fake...like a Line 6 Spider amp, or Diamond Darrells chainsaw guitar tone.

I used to be about having multi-channels for different tones...I'm starting to think in a perfect world, I'd like to have different amps for each tone.
My dream would be a setup using a Mesa Dual Recto, Marshall JCM800, and a Fender Bassman or Showman.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Diablo, post a picture of you in that band..we all need a laugh!!

Multipule amp or lots of channels in a power scaling amp would be amazing. The Egnators I played had that feature but did not appear to do much, Peaveys were the same as well.
I think only the Mesa's did that well by switching wattage.

Have a Marshall Power Brake on the way so that should give me the tone I am looking for.
Went with this because Ohms are not an issue as the THD's.
Will post a report once its in hand.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The locus of distortion (where it happens) is a funny thing. From the guitar to the speakers, your signal has gain added to it in multiple locations, and harmonic content can be added at any of those locations. Even when people say they prefer or insist on a "clean" amp with the distortion coming from a pedal, if the pedal is set for an effect output hotter than bypass, and the amp is set for any sort of volume at all, there will be harmonic content added later in the chain because of what the hotter output of the pedal did. That is, in the absence of the pedal, the amp may be clean, but when the pedal pushes it, the amp clips. If the speakers are not over-rated, they will likely clip too, and if there is an output transformer, it might add some harmonic content as well.

Not all clipping is alike, though. You can not simply replace pedal clipping with speaker clipping with power tube clipping. Indeed, you probably can't replacing preamp clipping in tube 1 with preamp clipping in tube 2.

Fundamentally, EVERY stage produces harmonics from the signal it receives. If that signal already contains harmonic content, then the next thing in line will produce harmonics of that harmonic content. Generally speaking, harmonics of harmonics, and especially harmonics of harmonics of harmonics, sound like ass. At least they will if not managed effectively. Typically, effective "management" involves shaping the tone at each potential clipping juncture along the way so that any harmonic content accompanying the basic note is lower order. As an example, I thnk many folks will find that rolling back the treble on their guitar can often yield more pleasing sounds from whatever dirtbox they are using. Not always, but often.

I suspect that one of the reasons why some people may prefer power-tube distortion is because it may well involve less harmonics of harmonics of harmonics. That is, if the guitar is clean, nothing is distorting the signal....much...before it hits the amp and the power stage is cranked using a relatively clean front end, you will have a better-managed distortion. I(need, many will recommend replacing a higher-gain 12AX7 preamp tube in the first position with a lower-gain 12AY7 or AT7 to produce a "smoother" distortion from the power stage.

That is certainly not all of it, and I have no doubts that power-tube distortion is qualitatively different than preamp tube, but if the amp's front end is cranked with an already saturated in put signal, then it is for damn sure that any distortion added by the power stage will involve harmonics of harmonics of harmonics...unless something has been done along the way to tame them between stages.

That is also not to say that multiple loci of clipping is awful. For example, one of the best-selling distortions of all time is the Big Muff Pi, which deliberately uses two cascaded clipping stages. And one of the Legendary boosters is the Klon centaur whcih deliberately pre-distorts the signal in a certain way so that when it pushes the amp it will push it with the asort of signal that brings out better clipping from the amp.

So, the moral is, it is not a choice *betwee*n stompbox, preamp, or power stage. The best tones will often arise out of carefully shaping your tone and gain along the way at each potential point of intervention so that you extract the best out of it. Think of your stompboxes not as the final source of whatever distortion you hear at the end, but as a contributor or influence on what you hear. If there are tubes and transformer along the way, they will certainly play a vital role, as will the speaker/s' natural breakup. Think of it like a system and you'll be okay. And so will your tone.

Mark


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## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

Great topic. I have been thinking about this a bit lately as well. I like the sound of my dirt pedals into the clean channel of my amp but I also like my gain channel's sound blended with a dirt pedal's distortion usually rolled down quite low. For me, it all depends on how this will work into your live performance. It's easy to to stomp a pedal on and off but nothing sounds like a crunchy warm tube amp's gain. The problem is being able to combine them in one stomp.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Bevo said:


> *Diablo, post a picture of you in that band..we all need a laugh!!*
> Multipule amp or lots of channels in a power scaling amp would be amazing. The Egnators I played had that feature but did not appear to do much, Peaveys were the same as well.
> I think only the Mesa's did that well by switching wattage.
> 
> ...


I dont want to de-rail this thread, but if theres some chuckle value to it (everything from the 80's seems to have that effect now!)  I'm in the top left. This pic reminds me that I had a stupid tendency to roll up the sleeves on my leather jacket for some reason in those days


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

I got rid of most of my distortion pedals, there is nothing like a cranked up tube amp with a les paul plugged straight in

I never liked a clean amp relying on pedals to get distortion...although they certainly have their place ( Gilmour does this very effectively )

and using a fuzz to goose the already saturated amp over the edge a bit more can be great

I have a couple low power amps & a couple big ones...I just bring what I need

Diablo: hilarious pic!! funny how fashion works...at the time that was probably cool as hell. 

so was this:











maybe those ugly plaid suits from the '70's will make a comeback someday


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

Budda said:


> Al3d, ENGL's are known for their capacity to have a great tone at house volumes


Yup, I have 3 ENGL amps, 2 100 watt heads (a powerball and an SE-EL34) and a 50 watt combo (a thunder) they dont need to be cranked to sound great. Diezels on the other hand....they like to be loud. Mine only gets used on jam nights because unless it is turned up it sounds fizzy.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

this has been an incredibly useful thread.......I personally have been plagued with getting the right tone for home practice vs band practice / live performance...

at home I've been cranking the preamp but keeping the master volume low so the wife and neighbors don't have a fit....and at low volumes, preamp distortion sounds pretty darn good and I'm sooo in love with the amp and guitar combo

insert that tone into the whole band - I get lost......I've tried frikkin around with EQ settings and pickup setting to no avail.....and turning up the master volume does indeed start to sound like ass - especially if there's a pedal in the mix.....more like buzzing than good tone...which directs me to the first thought - "man - I gotta change this amp / guitar combo - it sounds like SH$#.....which obviously isn't really the solution....

so in the band setting - I now turn the channel volume way down, maybe around 2 or 3 - and crank the master (although this still has to be tempered even in the band setting - 50 watts of tube can get REALLLY loud.......sometimes use the amp's boost if there's a lead - sometimes add in a pedal for a lead or a crunchy rhythm.....it seems to work really well - in addition - the guitar volume knob responds much better too - where with an already cranked preamp - there really didn't appear to me a very noticeable different between 5 and 10 on the guitar volume - just more distortion.

this thread - especially mhammer's post has explained the why behind the discovery - ....many thanks


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Good thread! I absolutley love my Peavey Classic 30.....when it gets turned up to about 6. At that point it is hard to stay in the same room at home, and I am disturbing the wife and nieghbours. It has got me thinking that it is time for a trade because at 1 the sound is just not there. I hate to see it go as it is one of the older ones and I only have about 20 hrs of playing on it. I bought it used about 15 years ago. But, in all practicallity, I would be better served by something with a lot less power.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Your a great sport Diablo!!
Had to wipe the chips off my computer!
I think most of us older guys have a few of those pictures kicking around..

Hammer, that was a great piece of writing, it puts distortion in a different light.
How can we take what you have said and make our choices more fluid so that the gain is a better quality?
Your also very right about what happens after the power leaves the amp, I proved it last night. I picked up a Marshall power break Attenuator but only got to fool with it for 15 min.

First impressions were the amp at a moderate level did not give no where near the same tone as without the Attenuator.
The tone did change at that dial level, it became more focused and clear with a defined bottom end. The response that was with the ATT did not match as it did without.

I will have to play with it some more but it does appear that it has more of a blanket tossed over the speaker effect...not sure if this is the solution..

Will follow up after I spend more time with it..


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

My own overall strategy, and what I like to do when building pedals, is to restrict top end in the earliest gain stages and then gradually spool it out.

Indeed, this is pretty much what people normally do. If you're a Strat player, you likely have a 250k volume pot. Why? because that rolls off some of the top end by loading down thepickup. Let's say you plug into a Tube Screamer. The TS will also roll off some top end....in fact a lot of it, and even more if you crank the gain in the pedal (the way it is designed, it rolls off more treble as gain is increased). Now it goes down a long cable, which peels off a bit of treble, and into the amp. Although this does not roll off the most at the front end of your signal path, the logic is generally the same: _don't introduce too much harmonic content in the high end too soon in the signal chain_.


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## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Good thread! I absolutley love my Peavey Classic 30.....when it gets turned up to about 6. At that point it is hard to stay in the same room at home, and I am disturbing the wife and nieghbours. It has got me thinking that it is time for a trade because at 1 the sound is just not there. I hate to see it go as it is one of the older ones and I only have about 20 hrs of playing on it. I bought it used about 15 years ago. But, in all practicallity, I would be better served by something with a lot less power.


Ever thought about buying an attenuator? You'd be able to get the tone at lower volumes without shaking the windows.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Spent an hour with my Power Brake today and found the sweet spot.

With the volume of the amp at 9 o'clock and the PB set at 2 o'clock I got my best tones. The volume was louder than bedroom level but man did it sound good.

I think at this level it was taking the edge off the volume yet still driving the amp at a very moderate level.
Very crisp mids with no mud to be seen anywhere, rolled off the highs a bit as Hammer said and it smoothed out the tone.

The distortion is still a bit rough, kinda like a dirt road as opposed to say the 407 (smooth yet noisy concrete highway).
Those with Marshalls know the low volume distortion compared to the high volume distortion. Its not quiet drastic yet is there.

I do think this attenuator is good but its not the solution.
Low power amps with good distortion may be the answer.


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

There are some great sounding pedals out there but I'm a believer in that the amp must have great core tones to start... I allways pick amp distortion over pedal distortion... that said there are amps out there that definetly benifit from pedals.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

It always takes me a while to dial in my pedal distortion for every new room, no matter which pedal I'm using. Somehow or another dialing in the amp (YCV50) distortion is dead simple. Not sure why that is. 

In any event, I use amp distortion, pedals (Seymour Duncan Lava Box, Marshall Gov'nor, BBE Crusher), and sometimes combinations of amp and pedals. Sometimes I boost the signal going to the amp and pedals with a Line Driver. Lately I've not been using a compressor. Between boost, clean, dirty, pedals, and their various combinations, there are lots of tonal possibilities.

All I know is I prefer either pure amp or pure pedal into the clean channel, and only combining them for real over the top stuff.

Peace, Mooh.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Why not both?

I sometimes like to have a clean sound, so I tend to go more for a clean amp and one of three pedals (or sometimes a combination of them.)

But my plan at one point, if I'd gone further with guitar playing when I was younger, was to have an A/B box and have my JC-60 on one end and a tube amp on the other.

Either that, or if I'd found a Legend amp that was a hybrid

I test drove a few, and I liked the clean channel, and the dirty channel as well.
Although I could have A/B'd hat & the Roland.

So I like both amp distortion & pedal distortion and would like to be able to use both or either if I were gigging.


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

sure why not... I use a BBE Gren Screamer to boost my signal... it's an integral part of the chain.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...back in the ...er...day, i played through an ampeg half stack, cranked.

i have video footage of that tone...wow!

but, that was decades ago. for years i have been trying to get close to that sound with pedals, but it has pretty much been an exercise in futility and, listening back to recordings i've done since, all i hear is a bucket of angry, whining bees.

i have a great sounding combo now, fifteen watts, but still have to rely on pedals for anything other than a clean tone.

i do like my pedals, which include an FET Dream, Tonebone Plexitube and Plush Extreme Cream, as well as a Barber Compressor.

master volumes don't do it for me, and an amp's distortion channel is usually pathetic, although traynor's is at least usable in a pinch.

this is especially critical for recording. i'm just really unhappy with the guitar tones i'm getting on the new cd, and have just had to lower my expectations and suck it up.

i'll continue to refer to this thread for ideas and advice.

-dh


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

When it comes to putting syrup on pancakes, you're always going to need more than you think you do. With distortion, it's the opposite. I think people generally need less distortion than they *think* they do. 

When they try out a pedal, they try it out as an individual, rather as part of an ensemble. The extra frizz on top can provide what seems like a "bigger" sound under those conditions....as so many owners of $129 guitars and $79 amplifiers have found out in their bedrooms. People like the sustain they can achieve at modest volumes, and they like the way a pedal seems to "cut through", but that doesn't mean that it ends up having a pleasing tone when listened to as part of an overall mix.

I'm as guilty of that as anyone else. The trick, I think, is really to be able to set the knobs to what you think you like/need and then dial them back a bit and let your fingers do the rest of the work.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

I think the reason so many of us love tube amps is because of how they sound loud and nearly wide open. Part of that mojo, aside from sound pressure and adrenaline, is even order harmonics produced by tubes. This is essentially distortion on a scope, but it is heard by our analog ears as a pleasant change in tone.

I think it's nearly impossible to reproduce that with pedals - it's also why attenuators are a close 2nd to full tilt tones.

That said I use pedals at home all the time and like my tone a lot. I prefer a clean amp with a pile of headroom for this type of tone.


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## Prosonic (Apr 28, 2009)

I've tried many different amps (mostly fender) and pedal combinations but in the end for me it is a no brainer: Fender Prosonic "clean" channel with a THD Hotplate and a 2X12 open back (and fender tube/spring reverb tank). The Clean channel on the Prosonic breaks up differently than most fender clean channels. Turn it up to around 3.5 to 5ish (it breaks up early) and you’ve got everything from a nice light breakup to Jimmy Page territory. I don’t use the overdrive channel. 

The less you attenuate the better it sounds for sure, however I think that it is the best compromise you can make between tone and volume levels. I also find that the guitar I use can really affect the level of distortion the amp puts out. My strat can sound pretty clean but on the same amp setting my 335 is really rocking. I’m getting into switching guitars instead of changing overdrive or volume settings. 

I've tried using clean amp settings and pedals for distortion in the past but as many have already said, I find they just don't sound "real". I've also tried a thd hotplate with my deluxe reverb re-issue and I didn't really dig it. I also tried the Z Brake on my ‘66 super reverb. Better than the deluxe but doesn't compare to the Prosonic. I do use (and really enjoy) an overdrive pedal (J-Drive or Barber LTD) to add extra gain for solos or a heavier guitar tone. I also really like my SF Champ cranked with no attenuation however it’s really loud for playing at home and not loud enough for a full band situation.For me I prefer power amp distortion to other types and the best way to do that that I've found is a THD hotplate and a Fender Prosonic.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

The only reason I use pedals is because 1) I live in an appartment, and 2) I own a BFPR. The best way to use pedals in a cleaner amp is to get the power tubes chugging away and then fine tune the anount of gristle using *both *the amps controls and those of the pedal, and the guitar's as well. At low amp volumes and high gain settings on a given OD/dist. pedal, there's always going to be a variable amount of "bees buzzing". Preamp distortion is fizzy by nature. This is fine for home, but as *mhammer* stated this won't cut it with a band. I've had good luck with my Tonebone Classic, but there are lots of other great gain pedals. Conversely, cheapo gain pedals may never bring tonal happiness, but can be fine for small SS practice amps or casual recordings.

Shawn


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

You hit it on the head, distortion levels always creep up and we don't need that much to begin with.
The way I set my gain is to lower it to "0" and palm mute the B or E till I get that change from pop to chunk. That setting can be very very low in some amps.
Increasing the volume to band levels I also back it off a bit more, last jam with my fireball I was at 2.5 on the gain. It was as clear as a bell and the distortion was tight with huge sustain.

The attenuator is a great tool but it does take some of your sound with it, I use mine lightly and still hear it.

Another option we have not really explored yet is the proccessors, they are getting better and better and will soon be a very usefull tool to those recording or playing at home.

My Line6 X3 Live was amazing for distorted tone and came very close to matching the amps they were modeling. Close but still with that digital tone.
End of the day I was spending more time pushing buttons than playing.

The AXE proccessers you have all heard (if you listen to the radio), they are the new standard and are as close to a tube amp as you can get in feel and tone.
Once the next version comes out we may have to rethink how we play.

I may get one but will always have a tube head on hand.


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

I always prefer tube amp distortion over pedal, but it depends on too many factors and you have to play with alot of different combinations to find the formula that works for you... My last tube amp was a CAA OD100, fantastic clean channel, then I had the OD channel set to medium crunch. That channel would clean up pretty good with the guitar volume, then it had a boost function and I added a drive pedal on top of that so I could get everything from clean to scream with not a lot of fuss. great gig rig. 

I have been using the AxeFx for a couple of years now, and it does it all really well,... from a platform of about 40 amp models, you can have different types of amp distortion and you can add an array of drive pedals, compression, eq pedals, etc to create any tone imaginable.


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