# What ONE thing?



## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

*EDIT! Yes. I have had SPEAKER removed from the list of options. Sorry for any inconveniences. *

Hey oh


OK OK lots of experience out there. I have a question, and I hope out of the expereince maybe something will come of this question.

AN AMPLIFIER HAS:

Power Supply Tube/Diode _LOTS of different choices here_
Pre-Amp Tube_ Usually a triode, but this could be a pentode_
Tone-Amp Tube _Usually also a triode, or dual triode, but there is a difference betwen 12au7 and 12ay7 and 12ax7 etc_
SE Power Tube _so many 6#6 tubes to consider let alone other values_
PP Phase Splitter Tube _More choice here yet again of the 12##7 variety typically_
PP Power Tubes_ and here there are LOTS of choices too_
Output Transformer _This is where it seems to become "company made", while 100 companies may use 12ax7 and 6v6 they sound different, why? All 100 use a different OT, and I think that's why but ... not sure hence the poll_


If I were to chose a schematic, ANY schematic, and I built 6 versions (single ended) or 7 versions (PushPull) WHAT *ONE COMPONENT* when changed between builds would create the single biggest impact on the tone of that amp?

My personal bet is the OT but, I am not personally experienced enough to say that conclusively so, I poll it to you, the masses.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I voted speaker...it is a total guess.

Dave


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

greco said:


> I voted speaker...it is a total guess.
> 
> Dave


I think you'll find most folks agree on this point. However, I think we'd have a lot more fun if we left "speaker" out of the poll.

Shawn.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

greco said:


> I voted speaker...it is a total guess.
> 
> Dave





Rugburn said:


> I think you'll find most folks agree on this point. However, I think we'd have a lot more fun if we left "speaker" out of the poll.
> 
> Shawn.


I will have to agree. Ok, I will ask that speaker be withdrawn from the poll choices.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

I voted for the OT. From my experience these are fairly critical to the tone of the amp. Some Fenders benefit from swapping in beefier OTs from the originals. The ultralinear OTs of the later Fender Silverface models are loved by some and hated by others.

Shawn.


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

Of the available choices, I'd go with the output transformer as well. However, I think the list missed some of the bigger factors.

I could change the tone far more with one capacitor or resistor than any of the items on the list.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

Wild Bill said:


> Of the available choices, I'd go with the output transformer as well. However, I think the list missed some of the bigger factors.
> 
> I could change the tone far more with one capacitor or resistor than any of the items on the list.


Ah, but that's what seperates us wannabes from the pros Seriously, I've tried to learn a bit about what can be the cause of certain failures and weird noises, but "sculpting" a new tone stack or whatever in an old Traynor for instance, that's the art of it IMHO

Shawn.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Wild Bill said:


> Of the available choices, I'd go with the output transformer as well. However, I think the list missed some of the bigger factors.
> 
> I could change the tone far more with one capacitor or resistor than any of the items on the list.



 thank you Wild Bill. I have read some DIY sites that talk about the very dramatic shifts in tone changing the cathode resistor or bypass capacitor etc too. However, I was looking and thinking from the "Clone" market view. There are MANY Fender clones out there, and other than an OT the appear to all be the same circuit. And you will then find legions who love Clone A vs Clone B and that leaves me wondering, if it is a cloned circuit, how is A differing from B and the only "unlabeled" part is the OT. You can "try" to match one makers to the next's OT but unless you know everything right down to the metal mix of the iron core it is pretty hard to do so. Most end up "Well, the original was a 5500 ohm primary ..." and they come up with a 5300, or 6000 or some other value etc, workable yes, close yes, but not 'the same' and the output tone is different and people seem gaga for the difference or hate the difference (or, love it less).

Does that make sense from where I am approaching the question? Or am I really out of the park in trying to understand this?


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

keeperofthegood said:


> thank you Wild Bill. I have read some DIY sites that talk about the very dramatic shifts in tone changing the cathode resistor or bypass capacitor etc too. However, I was looking and thinking from the "Clone" market view. There are MANY Fender clones out there, and other than an OT the appear to all be the same circuit. And you will then find legions who love Clone A vs Clone B and that leaves me wondering, if it is a cloned circuit, how is A differing from B and the only "unlabeled" part is the OT. You can "try" to match one makers to the next's OT but unless you know everything right down to the metal mix of the iron core it is pretty hard to do so. Most end up "Well, the original was a 5500 ohm primary ..." and they come up with a 5300, or 6000 or some other value etc, workable yes, close yes, but not 'the same' and the output tone is different and people seem gaga for the difference or hate the difference (or, love it less).
> 
> Does that make sense from where I am approaching the question? Or am I really out of the park in trying to understand this?


Ah, clones! You didn't say that! I thought we were talking about amps in general, not comparing clones. You have to be specific with me, Keeps! Remember, I'm getting old!

If you want to keep it to clones I'd say that the speaker choice you banned would be the biggest difference, by a bunch and a half! Different OTs would be next. Some transformers have cheaper steel laminations. Some saturate much easier than others. The interesting thing is that sometimes for guitar the cheaper OTs sound better! Once again, a guitar amp is not supposed to be a hifi device!

After that would come tube vs. SS rectifiers. Then different gain tubes, like a 12AY7 for a 12AX7.

Last would come different brands of the same tube. I just don't buy into the mojo that a different brand of 12AX7 would have a better midrange or whatever. Tubes don't deal with sound. They deal with electrons. They don't become sound until the speaker moves some air. They have no way of knowing if those electrons represent a guitar signal, a radio oscillator or a control voltage to a motor and have no need to care.

That being said, in terms of overall quality like lifetime and lack of hum or noise there are indeed differences! Some brands are cheap for a reason!


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Hahaha Wild Bill, sorry, should have. It was what I meant about using 1 chosen schematic, and then only swapping out 1 physical part at a time, what 1 part would bring about the biggest change in the tone.


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