# Just bought a vintage amp? Watch out for Asbestos!



## Swee_tone (Mar 23, 2009)

Beware of Asbestos when opening up that vintage tweed amp !

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After buying a vintage 1966 amp at a garage sale, I was pretty excited. kksjur

I opened it up and looked in awe at the point to point wiring, and all the work you just dont see these days very often.

I noticed some ruffled paper on the back panel that I had unscrewed. I decided to rip it off, but didn't have time, so i'd get to it later and clean it all up. (It's actually a white, heat resistant strip approx 6"
Deep x Width of the Panel . It covers the exposed wiring / chassis when screwed in place.) 

After some reading, I found out it was actually asbestos, which was quite common for the time.

When you disturb asbestos , fibers are released into the air and can be inhaled. 


Wow!

So some solutions I was told to do:

- Ask a pro, get rid of it 

- Paint it using high-heat engine paint from the auto parts store or high-build elastomeric acrylic

- Soak it well first, add some white glue as a binder, then scrape it off, only when it was completely drenched, inside 2 thick, clear plastic bags. ( wear a hazmat suit, an industrial respirator, in a sealed area with a hepa vac filtering the area) 

- Leave it alone. It's not in an exposed position, and if you do not plan on scraping it ,it's not going to be friable (particles released)... as long as you *do not mess with the asbestos when you remove the panel*.


Just figured I would make a mention of this, for the safety of those who may not know.


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## John Bartley (Jul 23, 2009)

Good point about being safe, but we shouldn't get paranoid either. I run into this stuff regularly in old tube radios, and it's kind of like a hornets nest.....if you don't disturb it, it won't bite you. It's there as a non-flammable insulator, so I wouldn't soak it with anything that might melt, and/or burn. I'd just bag it while you work on the amp, then reinstall it when you're done. There are rules about disposal (apparently it's considered a hazardous material), so reinstalling in it's original application wherever possible is (IMHO) the best solution. As long as it's sitting quietly in the amp, it's fine. I certainly wouldn't whir it up in a blender and sniff the dust....

cheers

John


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Ok..this is totaly ridiculous, get real, asbetos is TOTALY SAFE, my god, ask a pro to remove a small peice of asbestos!, gimme a break. it's been proven 100 of times that all this IT'S DANGEROUS is total BS. thinking like this made our 2 mines closed because of closed minded and uninformed people..and now we have to buy the asbestos from China...


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## krall (Apr 19, 2009)

Swee_tone said:


> Beware of Asbestos when opening up that vintage tweed amp !
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> After buying a vintage 1966 amp at a garage sale, I was pretty excited.


They still made tweed amps in '66? Did you mean '56?


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

My dad spent 50 years as mechanic. I don't know how many thousands of brake jobs he did (I did my share through the summers too). Part of the procedure was to blast the backplate assembly with compressed air, sending up clouds of asbestoes-laden dust into the shop. The most anybody doing the job ever did was hold their breath while doing it.

I expect that I have inhaled thousands, if not millions of asbestos particles, my father and his contemporaries - probably billions. As bad as it may be, my father lived a long life (and I'm still kicking). Heck, I remember lots of asbestos everywhere when I was in school in the 60's (remember the heating pads for Bunsen Burners?).

Just like the tanning beds thread - exercise caution and moderation but a small exposure is not going to kill you. Eating a hotdog from a street vendor outside Stelco probably does 10 times the damage


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

al3d said:


> Ok..this is totaly ridiculous, get real, asbetos is TOTALY SAFE



Sorry, I totally disagree. Just ask all the old race car drivers who would soak handkerchiefs with liquid asbestos and cover their faces with them in case of a fire. Oh wait...you can't ask them. They all died early from lung cancer (Steve McQueen included). Or how about the tens of thousands of shipyard workers who died from asbestosis. Asbestos in cigarette filters is one of the contributing factors in lung cancer. Or how about the thousands of people who have died from mesothelioma as a result of asbestos exposure? Pretty strong evidence there too. My point is, there is enough evidence to warrant exercising caution when dealing with this stuff. My .02 cents.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Big_Daddy said:


> Sorry, I totally disagree. Just ask all the old race car drivers who would soak handkerchiefs with liquid asbestos and cover their faces with them in case of a fire. Oh wait...you can't ask them. They all died early from lung cancer (Steve McQueen included). Or how about the tens of thousands of shipyard workers who died from asbestosis. Asbestos in cigarette filters is one of the contributing factors in lung cancer. Or how about the thousands of people who have died from mesothelioma as a result of asbestos exposure? Pretty strong evidence there too.


there is a difference from what you are talking about..and removing a small peice of isolent made with a bit of asbestos mate.


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## krall (Apr 19, 2009)

al3d said:


> there is a difference from what you are talking about..and removing a small peice of isolent made with a bit of asbestos mate.



agreed..A small strip at this one time won't hurt you..Just handle it with kid gloves and reinsert in amp..Wash hands..Voila! done.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

krall said:


> agreed..A small strip at this one time won't hurt you..Just handle it with kid gloves and reinsert in amp..Wash hands..Voila! done.


+2! 
If you are scared of a small strip of asbestos, you might as well hide in your house for the balance of your life. There are many more hazards out there that will get you first. :smile:


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

al3d said:


> there is a difference from what you are talking about..and removing a small peice of isolent made with a bit of asbestos mate.


I agree, but a difference in magnitude only. This stuff is not "TOTALLY" safe. That is my point. Plus, I applaud the OP for making us aware of the potential risk involved with old amps.:smile:


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Big_Daddy said:


> Plus, I applaud the OP for making us aware of the potential risk involved with old amps.:smile:


Yes...Thanks Swee_tone.

Dave


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## Swee_tone (Mar 23, 2009)

al3d said:


> Ok..this is totaly ridiculous, get real, asbetos is TOTALY SAFE, my god, ask a pro to remove a small peice of asbestos!, gimme a break. it's been proven 100 of times that all this IT'S DANGEROUS is total BS. thinking like this made our 2 mines closed because of closed minded and uninformed people..and now we have to buy the asbestos from China...


Sorry, but it's not totally safe. 
Most people get health problems with repeated exposure, but my post was to be an alert to you . While you may not suffer any health effects from this small strip, the danger is still there if it disturbed, so I just wanted to help make others who may not know aware.

Taken from this website:
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/asbestos 

*Although it is clear that the health risks from asbestos exposure increase with heavier exposure and longer exposure time, investigators have found asbestos-related diseases in individuals with only brief exposures. Generally, those who develop asbestos-related diseases show no signs of illness for a long time after their first exposure*.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Big_Daddy said:


> I agree, but a difference in magnitude only. This stuff is not "TOTALLY" safe. That is my point. Plus, I applaud the OP for making us aware of the potential risk involved with old amps.:smile:


my bad..when saying TOTALY safe..i mean in those quantities. i mean all insulation in 90% of cars in the engine section IS made of asbestos


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

krall said:


> agreed..A small strip at this one time won't hurt you..Just handle it with kid gloves and reinsert in amp..Wash hands..Voila! done.


If you take it out to work on the amp why the heck would you put it back? You've already disturbed it, which is what causes the fibres to get into the air in the first place. If you've already taken out the piece then just bag it and dispose of it.


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## sfx70 (Sep 16, 2009)

asbestos in a guitar amp? that's crazy!!! what were they thinking?


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## Big White Tele (Feb 10, 2007)

al3d said:


> Ok..this is totaly ridiculous, get real, asbetos is TOTALY SAFE, my god, ask a pro to remove a small peice of asbestos!, gimme a break. it's been proven 100 of times that all this IT'S DANGEROUS is total BS. thinking like this made our 2 mines closed because of closed minded and uninformed people..and now we have to buy the asbestos from China...


Man I love this stuff, The best entertainment you can get for the money. Keep up the good work.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Big White Tele said:


> Man I love this stuff, The best entertainment you can get for the money. Keep up the good work.


you're welcome... i aim to please as always..


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

allthumbs56 said:


> My dad spent 50 years as mechanic. I don't know how many thousands of brake jobs he did (I did my share through the summers too). Part of the procedure was to blast the backplate assembly with compressed air, sending up clouds of asbestoes-laden dust into the shop. The most anybody doing the job ever did was hold their breath while doing it.
> 
> I expect that I have inhaled thousands, if not millions of asbestos particles, my father and his contemporaries - probably billions. As bad as it may be, my father lived a long life (and I'm still kicking).


Where I work we've been tested brake dust for about 20 years and in all that time they never found a intact fiber of asbestos. The heat and the grinding action of the brakes renders the fiber pieces small enough that you breath them and breath them out again.
The problem comes with asbestos used in insulation. The whole fibers are quite large and have little "hooks" on them. You breath them in, they stay in your lungs and that's when the trouble starts.


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## WEEZY (May 23, 2008)

> _Ok..this is totaly ridiculous, get real, asbetos is TOTALY SAFE, my god, ask a pro to remove a small peice of asbestos!, gimme a break. it's been proven 100 of times that all this IT'S DANGEROUS is total BS. thinking like this made our 2 mines closed because of closed minded and uninformed people..and now we have to buy the asbestos from China.._.



Actually, Canada is the largest producer of asbestos in the world still - we export it to India primarily where they use it in everything - and coincidentally, India's asbestos-related healthcare sector is rising by 200% per year or something like that... Everyone is dying from Mesolothemia and other lung cancers related to the inhilation of asbestos. Of course, the use of asbestos in Canada is illegal. F'ing death-dealing scum.

A few years ago I was living in a 50's bungalow in East Vancouver and the roof shingles in one area had been damaged by birds and neglect. I had come home from a gig late and my girlfried and I crashed around 3am - it was raining outside. I heard some drips in the corner of my room and turned on the lights to investigate at around 4am. An entire panel of drywall was about to burst off my bedroom ceiling because it was saturated with water from the leaking roof. I climbed into the attic and tried to bail out the water from the area, but it burst anyways on my girlfriends head and all over my room! The insulation was Zonolite - the most asbestos-ridden shit known to man. 

My landlord gave me a few months rent for free and put us up in the Holiday Inn for a week while a Hazmat team cleaned-up my house.. Regardless, I inhaled a good amount of the stuff and saw a doctor + did some research. Prolonged exposure will kill you, but small exposures have not been proven to cause illnesses. I moved out a few months later anyways... uggh.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

WEEZY said:


> The insulation was Zonolite - the most asbestos-ridden shit known to man.


Actually, I recently did some reading on attic insulation because I was working up in mine and Zonolite only contains "traces" of asbestos. You still need to be careful with it, but it may or may not contain asbestos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zonolite


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## Swee_tone (Mar 23, 2009)

Well i took the asbestos off myself with some gloves and a mask. I dug a hole and buried it in my back yard so no garbage workers would be exposed to it. I painted the area with a high temp flat black engine enamel.
It's done, now the amp goes for sale.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

I've had past discussions on this. Lots of antique radios also use asbestos fabrics. It's no biggie, just don't make a dust cloud with it; wet it and remove it. Plastic baggy and most city hazardous waste I think will take it off your hands at no charge.

There is a danger though. When asked "_why did they even do that?_" the general shrug answer was mostly "_some prototyper had one on overnight and smoked the cabinet?_" leading to the answer being "_there is, generally, a very good reason to put in a heat shield there_".

I do NOT know locally anymore who sells this kind of product (I think Canadian Tire used to sell like a 4 x 6 piece in muffler repair kits), but having the names and a visual is at least a help:

http://www.fibercloth.com/

http://www.americanfiresleeve.com/firesleeve-fire-blanket.html

Wild Bill probably knows more about this, and its need to use or not than I in amps. When a shield was used in radios, it is assume that there usually was some reason for it, and that is assumed to to have shown up in product testing at some point. Assumptions because the original builders are passed on or faded away so the information has become lost.

However, a suitable replacement is not impossible to find or get.


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