# Question for Audiophile types



## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Just bought a new house and will finally have a finished man-cave where I will be able to set-up a music room with guitars etc... and a rec room/TV room/music listening room. Looking forward to it. 

I haven't really purchased any audio equipment since having kids - 15 years ago (just to be clear, I didn't have the kids, my wife did - my plumbing doesn't work that way 

I've been surfing various sites on the net trying to learning about the newest and greatest audio equipment. I plan on buying a receiver, speakers and possibly a Squeezebox or something similar if my AppleTV doesn't do the trick. I've narrowed the receivers down to a Denon AVR-1911, Yamaha RX-V667, Pioneer VSX-1020K and Onkyo TX-SR608. I am leaning heavily towards the Denon. Here are some questions I have:

1. Are there DAC's built in to these receivers and will they be sufficient to convert the digital signal from my Apple TV?

2. Is the Apple TV ok for streaming music to my receiver (I plan to rip my CDs lossless in the near future - just have to buy a drive that's big enough.)

3. Can anyone recommend some decent speakers.

Note: Even though I am purchasing a receiver, my main concern is not theater sound. I am really looking at it for music but want the option of running all of my HDMI devices through it.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Stratin2traynor said:


> Just bought a new house and will finally have a finished man-cave where I will be able to set-up a music room with guitars etc... and a rec room/TV room/music listening room. Looking forward to it.
> 
> I haven't really purchased any audio equipment since having kids - 15 years ago (just to be clear, I didn't have the kids, my wife did - my plumbing doesn't work that way
> 
> ...


All 4 of those brands are really decent. Anything above the Sony, Panasonic, JVC level is a decent purchase.

I would also recommend the Denon or the Pioneer. The other 2 are no slouches either, but Denon and Pioneer both make some excellent products.

Yes, the receivers will have a DAC built in. Any receivers made in the last 10 years or so should have some sort of digital input and a corresponding DAC. If you're really concerned about quality, try to figure out who made the DAC in the unit. Burr-Brown and Wolfson are both highly regarded, but also pay attention to the video processing chips and any sort of DSP chip if you're planning on using that at all. SHARC is pretty much the standard for DSP chips, but for video someone else will have to chime in. I don't know much about video.

Also worth considering is which component has a _better_ DAC. Using a digital cable between your source and receiver is kind of useless if your source has a better DAC. In that case, you would just run standard analog cables and let your source do all the number crunching.

The Apple TV should be fine for what you want, but a word of advice. If you're planning on buying an Apple TV and a blu-ray player, I would recommend looking into the PS3. Even if you never play a single game on it, it's a media-sharing box that plays Blu-ray for a pretty good price.

What kid of budget do you have for speakers? Are you thinking just stereo or surround? 5.1? 7.1? What's the size of the room? Floor-standers or bookshelves?

Apart from all those questions, some good brands for not too much cash are Energy, Paradigm and PSB. All are Canadian brands as well, so you get the bonus of buying local  

Some decent non-Canadian brands are KEF, Martin-Logan (though they are a little different than most other speakers) and Mission, but I would pick an Energy/Paradigm/PSB over any of these pretty easily.

If your budget allows, you can get into some really nice speakers from mfgs like JM Labs/Focal, Quad, Martin-Logan (the upper-scale stuff) and Magnepan.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Thanks for the info Hollowbody! From what I've read the Denon is a step above the rest in terms of sound reproduction. It has fewer HDMI inputs but does support the newest 1.4 and has pass through capabilities. 

The room is about 15x20 I think. For speakers, my budget is ??? I prefer not to spend an outrageous amount. I currently have a set of Klipsch speakers to be used for the theater sound. They are pretty decent sounding but are a little to middy for me for music playback. Ultimately I would like to get a set of Totem floor standing speakers - but that would cost me a couple of thousand when all is said and done. Don't really want to spend that much on 2 speakers. I would probably go as high as $1000 for the pair. I already have a paradigm sub which suits my needs so far. 

I've owned Energy speakers before and really liked them. Haven't tried PSB's but I think a friend of mine had some and really liked them.

I plan on skipping the whole blu-ray fad. I'm sure they are great but I am perfectly happy with upscaled DVDs and HD downloads from iTunes. I have two Apple TVs and love them.

On the lossless issue - is it really worth it? Is there that much sonic difference between 256 and lossless?


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Stratin2traynor said:


> Thanks for the info Hollowbody! From what I've read the Denon is a step above the rest in terms of sound reproduction. It has fewer HDMI inputs but does support the newest 1.4 and has pass through capabilities.
> 
> The room is about 15x20 I think. For speakers, my budget is ??? I prefer not to spend an outrageous amount. I currently have a set of Klipsch speakers to be used for the theater sound. They are pretty decent sounding but are a little to middy for me for music playback. Ultimately I would like to get a set of Totem floor standing speakers - but that would cost me a couple of thousand when all is said and done. Don't really want to spend that much on 2 speakers. I would probably go as high as $1000 for the pair. I already have a paradigm sub which suits my needs so far.
> 
> ...


For lossless, yes, there's a gigantic difference between 256 or even 320 and uncompressed source (.wav) or lossless encoding (.flac, apple lossless, etc.) when you're dealing with higher-rez systems. You won't notice much if any difference using commercial computer speakers, or run-of-the-mill headphones, but once you upgrade to really nice headphones, or a decent 2-channel music system, the difference becomes pretty noticeable. Bass is much fuller in a system capable of producing <40Hz fundamentals at +/- 0db and the high end is much better too. You'll find that the music just has better presence in the upper and lower registers. Not that mp3 sounds bad, per se, but it sounds pretty rough in comparison.

Those Totem speakers are fantastic, but I've always pointed people who are looking for Totem to look at Quad speakers. They have the same kind of stunning furniture-grade finish, sound phenomenal, and are much, much cheaper! The 21L or 22L floorstanders are fantastic!

If you can budget $1k for speakers, check out used markets like Audiogon or Canuck Audio Mart to get some more bang for your buck. $1,000 will get you an awful LOT of speaker used, but not so much new. Some of the more quirky brands will give you awesome bang for the buck, but be pretty cheap on the used market, like Thiel, Vandersteen, etc. This pair of Vandersteens is a pretty decent deal for $1k.

The Kilpsch speakers are decent, but to accommodate the horn tweeters they use, the crossover point gets moved around a bit and gives a sizzly mid. Also, depending on your actual speaker, if it's one of the ones with the metallic woofers, that can add some presence in the mids. Klipsch is a legendary name in audio, but honestly, below the La Scala, Klipschorn, Cornwall and Heresy, I wouldn't really look at them. For traditional speaker designs, there are much better options out there.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Thanks for all the info Hollowbody. Looks like I'm going to have to buy a new media drive to rip all of my discs. Sad thing is, most of my more recent purchases (last 3-4 years) have been through iTunes. So a lot of the good stuff is only 256 and some is 128. 

The Totems that my friend had were Totem Hawks. I loved those speakers. They sounded amazing. I'll likely have to settle for a little less speaker though. At least for now. My friend (the same guy who had the Totems) thinks very highly of PSB 2B speakers. They are considerably cheaper but he said they sound very good - especially for the price. I've been checking out Audiogon and Canuck Audio Mart. Lot of interesting equipment. I'm going to keep my eye out on CAM for some good local deals. 

Still undecided on receivers though. It'll probably be a month or two before I buy one. Have to move into the new house and see if there is any play money left over. 

Keep the advice and opinions coming. I appreciate it and would like to make an informed decision.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Turns out I'm looking for Totem Sttaf's (not Hawks). Those were the ones I heard at a friends place. So if anyone has Sttaf's for sale let me know.


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