# SWITCHCRAFT toggle switches...my NEMESIS!



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

The following are screen shots from an old thread and provide historical content for this thread. 
I have just screwed up yet another Switchcraft 3-way toggle switch. This is my third, for a running total of about $75.00 in switches. Worse yet, this one was bought by my good friend @Fox Rox for his Tele build that I am "helping" him with.

*Apart from @NGroeneveld and myself, does anyone else have the same experience with these switches? *I tried to be careful when handling this most recent one and I still failed (along with the switch). I tested it before soldering in order to establish and assign the bridge and neck terminals...no problems....so it wasn't DOA in the package. 

I have stated the following in the past, and I expect that others will surely argue. I like Switchcraft 1/4 inch jacks for their robust and dependable build. However, I think the remainder of their products (i.e., those used for guitars and cables) are overpriced incorporate archaic designs that have not been reassessed and/or improved in many years.

Thanks for your comments, for bearing with me during this rant and, in advance, for your support.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

i hate them!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

For anyone not familiar, this is the switch that frustrates me on an ongoing basis...


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

No idea how this works but the cool factor is high.

Free-Way Pickup Switch | stewmac.com


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The basic principle underlying these switches is that they default to contact, and the switch lever moves a contact away from its default. The tricky thing is that it is hard to remove any tarnish by simply scraping the contact with a blade, the way you can with toggles. One the other hand, unlike toggles, you can't accidentally compromise the "grip" of the switch chassis on the solder lug with excessive heat. I've had plenty of toggles "go wiggly" on me because of too much heat.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I had to resolder one recently, but it was the blade type. Had a cold solder joint so I just remelted the solder and everything was fine.

are you using flux and pre tinning? Tin the wires tin the lugs.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

davetcan said:


> i hate them!


Did you have issues with the spring 'leaves' and contacts? ...Or what?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

davetcan said:


> No idea how this works but the cool factor is high.
> 
> Free-Way Pickup Switch | stewmac.com


I had one in my 3 pup epiphone black beauty for 6 combinations. First one arrived DOA. Replacement worked fine. Best thing is to contact freeway and tell them your setup and they will send diagrams


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> The tricky thing is that it is hard to remove any tarnish by simply scraping the contact with a blade, the way you can with toggles.


My issue is not cleaning the contacts (I almost sure you could do that with some very fine fine grit wet/dry or emery paper pulled between the contacts a few times) but it is the spring steel 'leaves'/leafs. Alter the spring forces between those even a tiny bit and you have had it. 

If someone knows how to "adjust them" with 100% assurance, please let me know.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Sounds like you have to be really careful not to mess with the leaves?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

gtrguy said:


> Sounds like you have to be really careful not to mess with the leaves?


I can't seem to put one into a guitar without somehow touching these delicate little leaves.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Yep, it's the leaves for me too.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Sometimes the leaves can be "rehabilitated" with a wee bit of tinning.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Sometimes the leaves can be "rehabilitated" with a wee bit of tinning.


This is interesting. Do you tin the little contacts on the inside of each "leaf"?
I'm not 100% sure of what you mean.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

This is a common complaint about the SC 3-way switches. As is, they work great. But bend one of the moveable contacts ("leaves") out of place and it can be a serious pain to repair. I've had luck taking them apart and re-bending them to make good contact again. But that can be hit or miss. Best to avoid putting pressure on them at all, requiring a careful hand installing. Or, as has been mentioned, it might just not be the best choice of switch for you. Nothing wrong with that.

But it does make you wonder, why didn't they consider that in the design?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

jbealsmusic said:


> This is a common complaint about the SC 3-way switches. As is, they work great. But bend one of the moveable contacts ("leaves") out of place and it can be a serious pain to repair. I've had luck taking them apart and re-bending them to make good contact again. But that can be hit or miss. Best to avoid putting pressure on them at all, requiring a careful hand installing. Or, as has been mentioned, it might just not be the best choice of switch for you. Nothing wrong with that.
> 
> But it does make you wonder, why didn't they consider that in the design?


*Thank you!, Thank You!, Thank You! *
Now I don't feel alone and somewhat embarrassed with this ongoing issue.

I have taken the (same) switch apart many times and did some bending that resulted in mainly "missing" with very frequent and inconsistent "hitting". That took several hours (seriously) of my life. I can be a stupidly determined, obsessive and perseverant. IIRC, that was switch #1 in my adventures with these.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

jbealsmusic said:


> Or, as has been mentioned, it might just not be the best choice of switch for you.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

mhammer said:


> Sometimes the leaves can be "rehabilitated" with a wee bit of tinning.


Or counter-bending them so they spring into the right place better (required maintenance after 2-4 decades depending on usage). Otherwise they last forever if you manage to not F them up.

That's the thing I like about these (and L style ones you'll see in actual Gibsons); you can fix them. Sealed box toggle (like on Asian imports) you just replace, and they die, sometimes in the first week (like the one on my friend's brand new from L&M P90 Mustang).


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Or counter-bending them so they spring into the right place better


How many have you successfully repaired this way?


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

A half dozen at least. Mostly the larger L style on vintage Gibsons that have relaxed a bit with usage.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Am I correct that you are coming into contact with the leaves during final assembly, not when wiring it up?
How about some kind of fish type tool to pull it in place rather than pushing from the back? Similar to a jig for mounting the jack in a hollow body with no access.
Maybe a piece of rubber hose of a diameter that would grab the thread where the knob goes. Pull it through, slide the nut over the hose and tighten.
Would that work?
As to ideas why these switches are used commonly? I'd guess the long term reliability is good (which means low warranty claims), and for someone doing a lot of them (production) they probably get the hang of it soon enough. For service purposes where you aren't doing a lot of them, maybe not the best design.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

jb welder said:


> Am I correct that you are coming into contact with the leaves during final assembly, not when wiring it up?


This switch was gently handled during wiring and has been dry fitted into an (open style) Tele control cavity before final assembly.
This afternoon I went and bought a switch of the design I preferred as in the pic below.
IMHO, many aspects of this switch are a better design in comparison to the Switchcraft counterpart. However, I am the first to admit extreme negative bias towards Switchcraft.
The contacts appear to be more robust with more surface area of actual contact and the spring steel appears to be of a heavier gauge.









It was interesting that staff at the store today knew right away what had happened as others had given up trying to fix the Switchcraft switches.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

jb welder said:


> ....maybe *not the best design*.


I'll drink to that. Maybe even because of that.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

I think your 'extreme negative' bias is making you subconsciously attempt to destroy them.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

jb welder said:


> I think your 'extreme negative' bias is making you subconsciously attempt to destroy them.


Maybe I should rethink my actual need to 'switch' at all.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Witches? We don't need no stinkin' witches!


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

I'm pretty sure this switch was designed before WW2. Lots of old military gear, radios etc used switches like these and I bet after the war they were really cheap, but now the only market is gibson style guitars. They should not cost $25!


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

tomee2 said:


> They should not cost $25!


The cost is purely because they are made in the US. That's something Switchcraft is really proud of and fights to continue doing, despite the rising cost of manufacturing in the US. Of course the same style of switch made overseas is a fraction of the price.

The quality of the metals used by Switchcraft may be slightly better for our purposes, and they pre-tin all of the solder contacts which makes them very easy to work with. However, those differences are probably negligible to most people. Frankly, the main reasons to buy Switchcraft's versions of these switches are perceived brand quality and if you have a preference for products manufactured in North America. If neither of those are a concern, save a heap of money and get the import versions.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

The US made ones feel different, in a better way, and on a costly guitar the $25 is a one time expense that's worth it to get the right feel. I just wish they were, I don't know, cheaper.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

tomee2 said:


> The US made ones feel different, in a better way


Not in my hands.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

greco said:


> Not in my hands.


I think I'm comparing Epiphone switches to Gibson.
But my friend's very nice R8 Les Paul has a switch that feels different then my lower end LPJ.


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