# Online band practice software?



## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

Don't know the best forum for this so thought I'd start here...

We've cancelled band rehearsal sessions for the foreseeable future at our local studio given the current situation, and are contemplating virtual practice sessions to keep things going. There are various 'jamming' software packages out there that should theoretically allow this, e.g., JamKazam, Jam Buster, Jamulus, Jamlink, but it seems all suffer from latency issues or require an ethernet connection.

Anyone tried these and have success/failure stories. I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering about this as an option!


----------



## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

If you’re not in the same place latency will always be an issue. You cannot overcome the laws of physics unfortunately.


----------



## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

Although I've never tried it myself, the Reaper D.A.W. has an option called Ninjam. Of course all of the band members would have to have Reaper to use Ninjam.


----------



## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

Well, although my bass player has successfully configured his PC to use JazzKazam, I'm unable to implement the latency test -- keep getting a "No network tests servers available" error message, and no help resources are evident on the site!! I'm not sure why this message pops up; wired ethernet connection is working ok (you can't use WiFi with JamKazam...) 
Any tech-savvy folks out there who can second-guess why I'm getting this and where I might troubleshoot the home router??


----------



## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

It would be great if we could get a program that would allow us to jamb with people on GC.


----------



## CathodeRay (Jan 12, 2018)

DavidP said:


> There are various 'jamming' software packages out there that should theoretically allow this, e.g., JamKazam, Jam Buster, Jamulus, Jamlink, but it seems all suffer from latency issues or require an ethernet connection.
> Anyone tried these and have success/failure stories. I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering about this as an option!


Just reviving this thread on the chance that someone else here has some experience with these.
I did a bit of reading up on 'basic' collaboration tools today. Couldn't find Jam Buster but I found:

JamKazam

Jamulus - Internet Jam Session Software - Jamulus

Jam together online | jammr

These 3 look promising. And...

Cockos Incorporated | NINJAM (higher bandwidth)

Anyone used any of these? Success? Failure?


----------



## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

FWIW, I'm still playing around with JamKazam; realized the ethernet cable I was using is an old CAT5, so just ordered a CAT6 to replace it, as I need a long run, and have fibre optic to the house, so strive for max bandwidth. 
I gave up on the latency server test as I continued to get the same 'no server' response. Made a connection with the bass band mate, but some breakup at my end as soon as his bass came into the mix, but no issues at the other end. The saga continues...


----------



## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Did you see the CTV story about orchestras and choirs?

What software were they using?


----------



## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Hammerhands said:


> Did you see the CTV story about orchestras and choirs?
> 
> What software were they using?


Haven't seen the story, but I suspect that they were using a click track and time code, and pasted it all together in post-production.


----------



## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

Funnily enough on another forum I frequent a person posted this video today:






Maybe this will help out. Kenny Gioia knows practically everything regarding Reaper and his tutorials are always first rate.


----------



## mturk (Nov 27, 2013)

DavidP said:


> Don't know the best forum for this so thought I'd start here...
> 
> We've cancelled band rehearsal sessions for the foreseeable future at our local studio given the current situation, and are contemplating virtual practice sessions to keep things going. There are various 'jamming' software packages out there that should theoretically allow this, e.g., JamKazam, Jam Buster, Jamulus, Jamlink, but it seems all suffer from latency issues or require an ethernet connection.
> 
> Anyone tried these and have success/failure stories. I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering about this as an option!


I cannot imagine this being feasible.


----------



## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

bw66 said:


> Haven't seen the story, but I suspect that they were using a click track and time code, and pasted it all together in post-production.


That is correct. I saw Calgary and Edmonton did something similar last week, and I saw the conductor in one video. It looks like they did the same.

United by a metronome, Toronto Symphony Orchestra brings Aaron Copland’s Appalachian Spring to life

32 Alberta musicians remotely unite for self-isolation orchestral performance


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Hammerhands said:


> Did you see the CTV story about orchestras and choirs?
> 
> What software were they using?


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

How did BNL pull this off??


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I would think you could just use Zoom.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

DaddyDog said:


> How did BNL pull this off??


Just a guess here.
They recorded their parts and sent them to whoever edited it all together for the vid.
I don't think it was recorded 'in the moment' because the other three didn't react when Tyler's (drummer) kid ran in at the end of the vid.


----------



## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Guncho said:


> I would think you could just use Zoom.


Zoom has huge latency issues and only allows sound from one source at a time. Best you can hope for with Zoom is to have one person lead and everyone else play along, but you wouldn't be able to hear anyone but the leader. Might be better than nothing...


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

That's not my experience. We use Zoom for North America wide conference calls all the time and I never get any sense of latency or only one person can talk at a time.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

bw66 said:


> Zoom has huge latency issues and only allows sound from one source at a time. Best you can hope for with Zoom is to have one person lead and everyone else play along, but you wouldn't be able to hear anyone but the leader. Might be better than nothing...


I’ve been trying to teach with Zoom and it doesn’t deal well with bandwidth competition. Keeping everyone else off the service is vital, no Netflix, gaming, or other conferencing. Playing along with each other is nearly impossible, it’s like a noise gate switching on and off. A huge part of my teaching style is duetting and harmony, and I’ve had to change substantially.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Are there different tiers of zoom cause yeah not my experience.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Guncho said:


> Are there different tiers of zoom cause yeah not my experience.


Yup. I need to upgrade.


----------



## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

Guncho said:


> Are there different tiers of zoom cause yeah not my experience.


Wow I’ll have to test that. I have a corporate Zoom profile.


----------



## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

JamKazam update. Just ran a 50' Cat6 cable from MacBook to desktop switch/network adapter via coax connection to main Wifi hub hooked to Telus fibre optic. My guitar is through HX Stomp as AI. Beta test with bass player and another guitar player using audio only (turned video off) was successful -- no noticeable latency/breakup between us! We're going to bring drums in today for another tryout. Looks like the software folks are upping the game -- two updates in as many days, and now an active forum and help files!
IMHO, worthwhile trying out!!


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Zoom observation, everyone should wear headphones.


----------



## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

Yes, headphones are also a given for JamKazam as well!


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Haven’t read this yet but Reverb just published an article on this. 11 Tools for Collaborating on Music Remotely
11 Tools for Collaborating on Music Remotely


----------



## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

I don't think I could jam on Zoom. Some voice, "You guys suck, what's with the hair, you old geek."

Or all of sudden, some anonymous guitar rips into a solo, you lose your band.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Is JamKazam not available any longer? Doesn't show up on iTunes for iPad or iPhone.


----------



## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> Is JamKazam not available any longer? Doesn't show up on iTunes for iPad or iPhone.


Mac and PC only I believe.


----------



## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

Given it really needs an ethernet connection (you actually get a WiFi only warning), I'm not surprised its Mac/PC only for the full version. IIRC, they did offer an iOS JamTracks version...


----------



## CathodeRay (Jan 12, 2018)

DavidP said:


> Given it really needs an ethernet connection (you actually get a WiFi only warning), I'm not surprised its Mac/PC only for the full version. IIRC, they did offer an iOS JamTracks version...


David, based on your experience with no video, I've installed jamkazam and will give it a go today. For a test run, is a USB mic and an acoustic good enough? 

Sent from my A3_Pro using Tapatalk


----------



## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

Hey CR: I expect that should be good enough to start off. 
FYI, once you set up an account, you're offered a free jamtrack -- I used that for initial playing around to get a feel for the interface before getting into a session with others.
Yesterday afternoon, we had drums, bass, two guitars all going into the mix and no noticeable latency or interruption over nearly an hour session. All involved were local here throughout greater Vancouver. So far, so good!! 
Next, we'll try activating the video so see what that does, but as I know everyone's face too well, no big loss w/o that feature if it compromises the session.


----------



## CathodeRay (Jan 12, 2018)

DavidP said:


> Hey CR: I expect that should be good enough to start off.
> FYI, once you set up an account, you're offered a free jamtrack -- I used that for initial playing around to get a feel for the interface before getting into a session with others...


Will do. For electric, do you listen to the output on your end at all, or are you listening to your guitar only via the headphones in the mix of the jam? 

Sent from my A3_Pro using Tapatalk


----------



## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

I'm using the HX Stomp to route the MacBook audio out back into the HX effects loop in via a mini TRS to dual 1/4" TS breakout and plug my headphone phones into the HX headphones jack to hear my guitar in the mix as well as any chat. I don't have any studio monitors so headphones are obviousy better than notebook speakers. However, I've not yet tried the notebook speaker only output... Give a progress report; its a learning curve for all of us! 

Ideally I can use some of this down time to finally play with home recording and exchange/build tracks but still light years away on that, and JamKazam is filling the practice gap so we can get some new material if/when we start gigging again...


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## CathodeRay (Jan 12, 2018)

BTW JamKazam on Windows asks for the system to be placed in 'High Performance Mode'

https://www.howtogeek.com/240840/sh...er-or-high-performance-power-plan-on-windows/


----------



## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

I am using Zoom with my duo partner. You cannot play a song in sync, it's just not there yet. We have configured with the best audio settings (detailed on the net everywhere) and our most useful practice has been us playing sections back and forth to each other individually. I am planning to test having me play a whole song to her, but monitor myself on my end and her on mute - then she should be able to sing the whole song through that way (ie: I won't hear her but it should enable her to hear me clearly without noticing the delay). It's definitely nice to interact face to face and we are keeping our regularly scheduled practices going with Zoom, so it's very useful nonetheless.

______________________________________________________________________________

I have also had success using an app called JamTaba, which is based on something called Ninjam:
Jamtaba - A Free App to Play Live Music in Online Jam Sessions

It uses lots of latency to get around the internets' limitations. So much latency, you play alternating loops with the other musicians that you connect with. I had a blues jam just now with total strangers and I played just as poorly, & it was just as daunting, as doing it in real life for me! lol 
I encourage those of you with some computer skills to play with this - we could in theory, run a guitarscanada server and jam together.


----------



## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

Here's a concise explanation of how to jam on Jamtaba;
Reaper NINJAM Setup - Page 2 - Cockos Incorporated Forums


----------



## Jeff Farley (May 13, 2020)

I've been working with Jamkazam and Jamulus for a couple of weeks. Both work really well once you get things set up. A laptop and a pair of headphones work fine to get you started if you have an acoustic instrument. You can just use the builtin mic for both the instrument and voice. Most people do have an ethernet connection available on their router even if they have never used it. All that's needed is a blue ethernet cable that will reach from your computer to your router and you should be all set to go with no additional expense. Both systems are free. I would be happy to help anyone who is interested get set up on one or both of these systems.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

We're going to keep experimenting with this but the experience is so far from ideal that we've come up with another idea. We're all going to learn to work with DAWs and we're going to lay down tracks for our parts. We'll start with the drummer, then bass, etc. We've settled on Studio One as the DAW since I own the Pro version and Prime is free. We can send the tracks around in native S1 format to keep it all as seamless as possible. Then there's the ListenTo plug-in which should allow us all to hear the mixes in near real-time when we're wrapping everything up. Should be fun!


----------



## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

I'm having some luck using Bandlab, which is an online DAW and collaboration tool with some ex-band mates. Both are vocalists with very little recording or technical experience. Bandlab enables us to share a project 'live' and make edits etc together over Zoom. It's getting us some rough cuts which we may use to make a quarantine video if we can get pointed in the right direction.


----------



## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

Jam Kazam is OK. Everyone needs to be strong though, to keep powering through when latency is detected. If your one of those that stops everytime something goes askew, its not for you.

Particularly if everyone in your session is fairly close to each other, I cannot detect latency. Was jamming with a drummer in TX and even that was OK as he was very strong drummer and just kept slamming through when things got weird. Perfect for jam, slightly less so for songs where you are listening for cues.

C


----------

