# Strat tremolo set up



## Seanguitar1 (Aug 11, 2021)

Hi,
Does anyone have any advice on setting up a Strat tremolo to stay in tune? I'm not trying to dive bomb or bend up the G string a tone and a half, but I'd like to add a nice shimmer to chords or double stops with a relatively light touch on the bar. A floating term is no use for me, as I play a lot of double stops and very wide bends - up two and a half tones on the B and G strings at times.
Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Sean.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

If it's not floating, I can't help much. Decking a trem makes it all but useless to me.

Floating, they can be made to stay in tune pretty good. Much of that has to do with the nut and the tension on the mounting screws, and how you install the strings.

I know how to deck them, but I only do that if I really don't intend on using it.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Lots of youtube videos to make it float properly


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I’ve never heard of a decked trem that is still useable for shimmer and stays in tune. I always thought either it’s floating and useable or decked in order to be like a hard tail. There’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to get the floating trem setup properly so that it generally stays in tune. It just may require attention at the nut as previously stated. There were a few Strat models that came with a rolling nut. Perhaps that would help.


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

knight_yyz said:


> Lots of youtube videos to make it float properly


100% right


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

knight_yyz said:


> Lots of youtube videos to make it float properly



And probably also lots showing how to deck them. I guess I just find the sound of a decked trem really jerky / spastic.

I learned how to keep a vintage style (6 point) trem in tune quite well, but at the end of the day, I ultimately moved to what I consider vastly superior bridge designs.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

JBFairthorne said:


> I’ve never heard of a decked trem that is still useable for shimmer and stays in tune. I always thought either it’s floating and useable or decked in order to be like a hard tail. There’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to get the floating trem setup properly so that it generally stays in tune. It just may require attention at the nut as previously stated. There were a few Strat models that came with a rolling nut. Perhaps that would help.


Three stages, floating, decked and blocked.

Floating you can pull up, decked you can only push down (or limited pull up) and blocked is just that, not used.


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

This dude is a wealth of knowledge on strat trem set-ups. TGP still links to this old video when questions like this come up. He also has demos of string/saddle height and doing Jeff Beck intervals on a floating trem. I would at least try this method before decking:






BUT if you must deck or block I would give this advice. Really push down on the strings at the break angle of the saddles, this keeps the string from moving around at that contact point. Second, a lubricant on the nut so nothing gets sticky. Third, use the self-locking stringing method to keep slippage from occurring. I do this on all my acoustics and non-locking tuner guitars:









How to lock your guitar strings in place so they always stay in tune… Even if you don’t have…


1 First set each tuning head so that the hole is facing down the neck — this will make it quicker and easier to install the new strings.




davidparas.medium.com


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Most basic trem systems can be tweaked to stay in tune.
Top two items on my list...fresh strings and a properly notched and lubricated ( graphite is my choice) nut will get you really close. Technique...(feel) is right behind my top two.
String trees should be used only where necessary and spacing them as high as possible while still giving sufficient break angle will help as well.
Check for smooth action of the block with strings on but tuned down and springs removed...look at front to back positions and check for clearance between trem plate and body in the forward, dive position and block to body contact.
I've had to slightly route relief into the trem block cavity to allow the block to travel to it's full extent on more than one occasion.
No magic...just pay attention to the details.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

Graphtech XL nut, locking tuners (or strings locked as noted previously), roller or TusqXL string trees, Wilkinson 5+1 bridge. This eliminates most of the friction issues which hurt tuning stability.

I played a Vintage brand Strat that had this type of setup (Wilkinson EZ Loks, the nut, the 5+1 bridge), and I could beat that thing like my mother-in-law's rented mule, and it came back in tune. I did the same type of setup to my Peavey Predator using the stock Graphite nut, and it is almost as good.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Rollin Hand said:


> Graphtech XL nut, locking tuners (or strings locked as noted previously), roller or TusqXL string trees, Wilkinson 5+1 bridge. This eliminates most of the friction issues which hurt tuning stability.
> 
> I played a Vintage brand Strat that had this type of setup (Wilkinson EZ Loks, the nut, the 5+1 bridge), and I could beat that thing like my mother-in-law's rented mule, and it came back in tune. I did the same type of setup to my Peavey Predator using the stock Graphite nut, and it is almost as good.


That's all fine and good.

Why do you want to beat your mother in law's mule?

Mules are nice.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Big Bends Nut Sauce has served me well for years now.

I use it on every guitar at every string change on the nut slots and saddles.
One tube lasts me for years with many string changes along the way, a little goes a lone way.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

sulphur said:


> Big Bends Nut Sauce has served me well for years now.
> 
> I use it on every guitar at every string change on the nut slots and saddles.
> One tube lasts me for years with many string changes along the way, a little goes a lone way.


I've used that and other solutions, but do you still use that even with a Graphtech tusq nut?


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Milkman said:


> I've used that and other solutions, but do you still use that even with a Graphtech tusq nut?


I'm not sure if I have a guitar with one of those nuts, the PRS might have a lubricating nut like that, but ya, I lube them all.
It won't hurt anything. It's a miniscule amount per slot and on the saddle, that's why the stuff lasts so long.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

Milkman said:


> That's all fine and good.
> 
> Why do you want to beat your mother in law's mule?
> 
> Mules are nice.


But it's not hers. It's rented.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I use graphite mixed in a little Vaseline as a means to keep it where I want it for lubricating the nut. Nut sauce is ridiculously expensive for the small tube it comes in. RIDICULOUSLY expensive.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

JBFairthorne said:


> I use graphite mixed in a little Vaseline as a means to keep it where I want it for lubricating the nut. Nut sauce is ridiculously expensive for the small tube it comes in. RIDICULOUSLY expensive.


Meh, like I said, a little goes a LONG way and one tube had lasted me years and many, many string changes.
I think graphite on a white, or off white nut looks terrible. It's a mess. Pass.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Lots of good advice posted already.
I've never used any lubricant in the grooves of the nut. Lube can cause dirt to gum up the slot unless you are cleaning regularly.

I'll just add that, if you are setting up a 6 screw mount, the outside screws are the ones taking the weight. Back the inside screws off so they do not contact. Then you screw down the outside screws one at a time. Screw down until the bridge sits flush with the body then back off about a half turn so that the front of the bridge then lifts back up a bit. This is mandatory on a floating trem as well as a lightly decked one. This removes any friction caused by the finish on the guitar or any unevenness from the wood under the bridge. A poor bridge mount is the cause of most tuning issues. People will often change tuners, nut, add lube and all sorts of things before attending to this critical area.
I use regular non locking tuners, a well cut bone nut, no lube and I prefer the tusq string tree- the vintage Fender trees are the worst. I have no tuning issues.

Good luck.


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## Seanguitar1 (Aug 11, 2021)

Milkman said:


> If it's not floating, I can't help much. Decking a trem makes it all but useless to me.
> 
> Floating, they can be made to stay in tune pretty good. Much of that has to do with the nut and the tension on the mounting screws, and how you install the strings.
> 
> I know how to deck them, but I only do that if I really don't intend on using it.


Thank you all for your replies/advice - much appreciated! If I "float" the term, will the other strings not "detune" if I bend a note on - for example - the G string, or is there a way of preventing that? I've been a little "spoiled" by my Steinberger guitars, as I can do pretty much anything I want with the trem and it stays in tune.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Seanguitar1 said:


> Thank you all for your replies/advice - much appreciated! If I "float" the term, will the other strings not "detune" if I bend a note on - for example - the G string, or is there a way of preventing that? I've been a little "spoiled" by my Steinberger guitars, as I can do pretty much anything I want with the trem and it stays in tune.


What you are describing is one of the typical characteristics (downfalls) of most trems. In fact the Steinberger transtrem is one of the few I know of that has succesfully mitigated this problem.

It happens with all floating trems including even the mighty Floyd Rose.

I'm presently using VegaTrem bridges a lot and they claim the problem is not so pronounced, but I can still hear it.

You can adjust your playing to compensate for it to an extent, but at the end of the day, a floating trem is generally not great for double stops with bends because of this.

If I was doing a lot of that style of playing (closing in on a country or country rock style) I'd be less inclined to use trems.

Maybe somebody else has more knowledge on how to reduce this tendency.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Goals:
-less movement on trem = more bending ability 
-intonation 

Procedure:

1. use all 5 springs (less fluid trem = more string bending ability).
2. Deck the trem
4. Make sure truss rod has minimal relief 
5. Vaseline minimal amount on nut and saddles
6. Keep loosening tension on trem claw and tuning strings until it is floating perfectly 
7. Intonate each saddles distance with tuner and holding down at the 12th fret
8. Adjust height to taste 
9. Tune guitar
10. Realize that you hate tremolo 
11. Buy a Tele or hardtail strat


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## Marshtech (May 8, 2021)

Check out Hipshot Tremsetter on Youtube, etc. Works great on Strat Ultra models with the 2 point contact bridge plate.


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## Jeff MacKillican (Jan 23, 2021)

I have been dealing with strat trems for 30 yrs, finally decided to block them all with a slice of hardwood behind the trem block. Adds sustain and stays in tune, which is my first priority. Lubing the saddles and nut is also a big help, but ultimately if I must have a trem I’ll get a Floyd.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

One could also do EVH's old trick of turning the strings at the block when tuning up.

What zztomato wrote is true too, hence the Wilkinson 5+1 -- it uses the one hole to anchor the bridge in place, then uses elongated holes to provide a pivot point without adding friction.

That said, I will still try what he said on my Predator. It makes sense on a couple of levels.


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## Jeff MacKillican (Jan 23, 2021)

Always12AM said:


> Goals:
> -less movement on trem = more bending ability
> -intonation
> 
> ...


Lol, I agree, floating trems suck!


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## TheGASisReal (Mar 2, 2020)

1- Needs to be floating
2- Has more to do with the nut/headstock end of the guitar than the bridge itself
3- It will still always go out some amount, even if very little


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Trems are very much technique sensitive. I like both hard tails and trem equipped guitars. I adapt my playing to suit the guitars.

A non floating trem is just far less musical to my ears.

If you can't both drop below pitch and pull up above pitch, vibratos will be jerky and uneven.

If all you want to do is dive bombs, fine, deck it.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

@zztomato do you happen to have any tusq string trees?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Budda said:


> @zztomato do you happen to have any tusq string trees?


I do


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Milkman said:


> Trems are very much technique sensitive. I like both hard tails and trem equipped guitars. I adapt my playing to suit the guitars.
> 
> A non floating trem is just far less musical to my ears.
> 
> ...


It took me _way_ too many years to come to the following realizations: 

On a hardtail, finger vibrato is from "pitch" to "sharp" to "pitch". Trills, (similar to, but not, vibrato), are executed _upwards. _I don't think bending pitch down is essential for an effective and natural sounding vibrato on a guitar. It took me years to figure out on my bigsby equipped guitar that I needed to pull _up_ to get a more natural sound. 

I've not studied singing closely enough to know how singers execute vibrato. Pitch to sharp? Both sides of pitch? Any trained singers on this board with a good answer? Also.... violin players.....is vibrato on both sides of the pitch?


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Budda said:


> @zztomato do you happen to have any tusq string trees?


I think I have a couple but I'm away on the west coast.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

zztomato said:


> I think I have a couple but I'm away on the west coast.


Cheers, looks like next gen carries them. If I buy 6 that adds up quick lol.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul M said:


> It took me _way_ too many years to come to the following realizations:
> 
> On a hardtail, finger vibrato is from "pitch" to "sharp" to "pitch". Trills, (similar to, but not, vibrato), are executed _upwards. _I don't think bending pitch down is essential for an effective and natural sounding vibrato on a guitar. It took me years to figure out on my bigsby equipped guitar that I needed to pull _up_ to get a more natural sound.
> 
> I've not studied singing closely enough to know how singers execute vibrato. Pitch to sharp? Both sides of pitch? Any trained singers on this board with a good answer? Also.... violin players.....is vibrato on both sides of the pitch?


Correct. A finger vibrato can only raise the pitch and return it. Somehow, that still sounds more musical to my ear than the opposite (a decked trem lowering the note and returning to pitch).

A floating trem is the best of both worlds in my opinion.

I like guys like Gilmour who use both seemlessly, often transitioning from a finger vibrato to a trem vibrato on the same note.

My impression, having never played violin is that their vibrato is acting much more like a floating trem than the other options. The absence of frets makes it possible to drop below pitch and go above it.


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Soooooo, I asked a friend who is a skilled violinist. Vibrato on violin is generated from the wrist and forearm, and is target pitch to 1/4 tone or less flat. Speed and depth to taste. Vibrato that goes sharp from the target pitch tends to sound like a musical wedgie. Vibrato from the fingers is weak.

So now I know.


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## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

sulphur said:


> Three stages, floating, decked and blocked.


You forgot the fourth stage.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul M said:


> Soooooo, I asked a friend who is a skilled violinist. Vibrato on violin is generated from the wrist and forearm, and is target pitch to 1/4 tone or less flat. Speed and depth to taste. Vibrato that goes sharp from the target pitch tends to sound like a musical wedgie. Vibrato from the fingers is weak.
> 
> So now I know.


Well, I don't play violin, but I'm not sure I can accept that the pitch doesn't go up and down (below and then above pitch).

Watching the action closely you can see that the movement is along the neck, not across it like on a guitar.

If the note starts out bang on pitch and then the vibrato is added, it looks (and sounds) to me like te same pitch movement you have with a floating trem.


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