# Monoprice improving their guitars



## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

I received an e-mail from them earlier this evening and I thought I'd share it. They're improving their "Indio" brand guitars with better quality wood. Here's what the e-mail says:

"Indio DLX Plus guitars feature ash and mahogany bodies with maple and mahogany necks, reproducing the same combinations of material responsible for some of music's most sought-after classic sounds. With these premium raw materials, DLX Plus guitars sit at the top of the Indio line, delivering the best value of any instrument its kind.

In addition, all DLX Plus instruments are professionally set-up by our master luthier right here in California, USA. Your guitar will play exceptionally well right out of the box. Gig bag included with every Indio DLX Plus guitar."

They\re not pricey at all but they're not available yet. Here's the link to their different models:

Search -INDO DLX PLUS - HDMI Cable, Home Theater Accessories, HDMI Products, Cables, Adapters, Video/Audio Switch, Networking, USB, Firewire, Printer Toner, and more!

I've already got their versions of a Les Paul and a Strat model from them and this time around I'm considering getting a Tele type guitar from them when they bring them out.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

I have never heard of these guitars before?


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

MarkM said:


> I have never heard of these guitars before?


 Monoprice. A monster electronics supplier. I have bought many different cables from them -- all very good. Audio gear at ridiculously low prices. Check'em out


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

I bought their second gen LP type gold top. It was on sale, and there was a 20% off coupon code. It cost about $100 USD. It is a great guitar for the money. Needed a slight tweak to the truss rod, that's it. I keep it in Eb to grab for a few songs.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I have heard of Monoprice before but couldn't remember if they sold guitars at that time. Their guitar offerings look decent and are competitively priced but it is hard to beat Rondo for quality at those price points. For example at $299.00.

Agile AL-3010SE PBR


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## doblander (Dec 8, 2019)

I bo't a second hand Monoprice (California Classic) strat white for under $90.00. Cheap guitars like the Mono's are my hobby. The seller had been gigging with this in his church band. The guitar is not very old, no S/N and no model ID. I lay it against my Squier SE of likely similar vintage and the two are IDENTICAL builds!! I consider that Squier to be a top notch guitar. They probably originated from the same work bench in the same factory far away. Their only difference is in the minor headstock curve where their logos rest. I had hoped at purchase time that I would at least have to remove and shim the neck because I could see as I fondled the guitar at handoff time that the fret ends were already buttery. No such luck! I used my alan rench to lower the saddles and i achieved deadly low action with no fret buzz! No fret levelling required either! Now I'll use my dremel to cut the saddle screws in half to prevent pick hand "shredding". (That's about the only shredding I'm capable of on any guitar). Solid wood, flawless neck, 1 3/4 inch body thickness, hardware is all good, perfect instrument. That's my point here. 90 bucks for a guitar that plays as easily/comfortably as a high ender and doesn't likely sound any worse either. I will be repainting this piece of furniture soon - red with gold burst, I'll sand the neck smooth and the Monoprice will be a perfect example of why expensive guitars are not such a good buy after all.


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

jayoldschool said:


> I bought their second gen LP type gold top. It was on sale, and there was a 20% off coupon code. It cost about $100 USD. It is a great guitar for the money. Needed a slight tweak to the truss rod, that's it. I keep it in Eb to grab for a few songs.


 Yeah the gold top Les Paul is what I have as well. They call it their "Route 66" model.



doblander said:


> I bo't a second hand Monoprice (California Classic) strat white for under $90.00. Cheap guitars like the Mono's are my hobby. The seller had been gigging with this in his church band. The guitar is not very old, no S/N and no model ID. I lay it against my Squier SE of likely similar vintage and the two are IDENTICAL builds!! I consider that Squier to be a top notch guitar. They probably originated from the same work bench in the same factory far away. Their only difference is in the minor headstock curve where their logos rest. I had hoped at purchase time that I would at least have to remove and shim the neck because I could see as I fondled the guitar at handoff time that the fret ends were already buttery. No such luck! I used my alan rench to lower the saddles and i achieved deadly low action with no fret buzz! No fret levelling required either! Now I'll use my dremel to cut the saddle screws in half to prevent pick hand "shredding". (That's about the only shredding I'm capable of on any guitar). Solid wood, flawless neck, 1 3/4 inch body thickness, hardware is all good, perfect instrument. That's my point here. 90 bucks for a guitar that plays as easily/comfortably as a high ender and doesn't likely sound any worse either. I will be repainting this piece of furniture soon - red with gold burst, I'll sand the neck smooth and the Monoprice will be a perfect example of why expensive guitars are not such a good buy after all.


Yeah, my Strat is the "California Classic" as well. It doesn't play quite as well as the Route 66 but it's a pretty decent guitar for the money. I liked your story about the Squier/CC Classic comparison. I agree with your assessment on them.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Unbelievable what a guy can get for next-to-nothing these days.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Steadfastly said:


> I have heard of Monoprice before but couldn't remember if they sold guitars at that time. Their guitar offerings look decent and are competitively priced but it is hard to beat Rondo for quality at those price points. For example at $299.00.
> 
> Agile AL-3010SE PBR


That is a very well appointed LP copy for the money. Of course not being able to play it first sucks, but at that price who cares? Do you own one of these?


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## doblander (Dec 8, 2019)

I googled your gold top route 66 and I say you are lucky to have that beauty! If I came accross one of those on our local (Regina) used sites, I would own it on sight. The same goes for the Monoprice telecaster. They're labelled "Indio".
I don't own a single telecaster copy guitar which I'm ashamed to admit and I'm patiently watching for an obscure brand or Squier version to pop up on Kijiji. It's mine. The ONLY thing that can keep me from dragging home another cheap guitar is a warped neck. I've made a lot of Kijiji purchases and I have never encountered a guitar with problem electronics. Neck misalignment, fret sprout, dents, scratches in the body, and absurd string action are epidemic in the so called "beginner" series used guitars. A sliver or 2 of scrap paper (neck shims), a bit of wood filler, sand paper, 1 rattle can of paint, 1 of clear coat are all it takes to transform them. Sure you still wind up with a cheap guitar but that sucker now looks and feels like high end. Is that rewarding? 
Without hardware upgrades I doubt that my refurbished cheapster would serve an accomplished guitarist well for several hours of high volume work in front of an audience but it sure as heck is an all round thing of beauty for a mediocre basement musician like me!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Rozz said:


> That is a very well appointed LP copy for the money. Of course not being able to play it first sucks, but at that price who cares? Do you own one of these?


Some people dish the Agiles but what you say about the appointments they come with are true. I specced out a custom one awhile back and it was loaded with just about every conceivable option you could think of and came out to just a little over $1000.00 USD. I do not own an LP from them but I did buy a tele about a year ago. It cost me $100.00 USD and is certainly nicer than any Squier. I also like that they have models with different neck widths. They are one of the few companies doing that.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

doblander said:


> I googled your gold top route 66 and I say you are lucky to have that beauty! If I came accross one of those on our local (Regina) used sites, I would own it on sight. The same goes for the Monoprice telecaster. They're labelled "Indio".
> I don't own a single telecaster copy guitar which I'm ashamed to admit and I'm patiently watching for an obscure brand or Squier version to pop up on Kijiji. It's mine. The ONLY thing that can keep me from dragging home another cheap guitar is a warped neck. I've made a lot of Kijiji purchases and I have never encountered a guitar with problem electronics. Neck misalignment, fret sprout, dents, scratches in the body, and absurd string action are epidemic in the so called "beginner" series used guitars. A sliver or 2 of scrap paper (neck shims), a bit of wood filler, sand paper, 1 rattle can of paint, 1 of clear coat are all it takes to transform them. Sure you still wind up with a cheap guitar but that sucker now looks and feels like high end. Is that rewarding?
> Without hardware upgrades I doubt that my refurbished cheapster would serve an accomplished guitarist well for several hours of high volume work in front of an audience but it sure as heck is an all round thing of beauty for a mediocre basement musician like me!


Here is a great deal on a gold top if you're interested.

Agile AL-3010SE Gold


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## LaRSin (Nov 27, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Here is a great deal on a gold top if you're interested.
> 
> Agile AL-3010SE Gold


But they are not cheap , If they are in US dollars plus shipping almost $700.
Not like the Monoprice , But they look better


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Some people dish the Agiles but what you say about the appointments they come with are true. I specced out a custom one awhile back and it was loaded with just about every conceivable option you could think of and came out to just a little over $1000.00 USD. I do not own an LP from them but I did buy a tele about a year ago. It cost me $100.00 USD and is certainly nicer than any Squier. I also like that they have models with different neck widths. They are one of the few companies doing that.


nicer than any Squier? thats a bold thing to say. I bet you aren't as qualified to say this as you think you are. how many have you compared?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

LaRSin said:


> But they are not cheap , If they are in US dollars plus shipping almost $700.
> Not like the Monoprice , But they look better


You live in SW Ontario so you are likely not far from the border. The exchange works out to $515.00. When I lived in St. Catharines, I would have items shipped to the UPS depot in N. Falls, NY and go pick up the items and just pay the HST. It saves a lot on having it shipped across the border with all the extra costs the shippers adds.


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## doblander (Dec 8, 2019)

Steadfastly said:


> Here is a great deal on a gold top if you're interested.
> 
> Agile AL-3010SE Gold


Boy, that Agile is fine! Probably an excellent guitar too but too much money for me. But my first glance at that gold paint won me over. I already have 2 advanced stage paint jobs on the go but my next visit to Cdn Tire will see me buying a rattle can of Gold. A gold guitar does not need a burst of another colour to finish it off, the gold is a stand alone colour. Thanks for the link!


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Steadfastly said:


> Some people dish the Agiles but what you say about the appointments they come with are true. I specced out a custom one awhile back and it was loaded with just about every conceivable option you could think of and came out to just a little over $1000.00 USD. I do not own an LP from them but I did buy a tele about a year ago. It cost me $100.00 USD and is certainly nicer than any Squier. I also like that they have models with different neck widths. They are one of the few companies doing that.


I have a LP Standard, that has the Graphtech saddles and nut and the tuning is rock solid. In my opinion many of the tuning issues with LPs can be solved at the nut. I have seen so many guys (including myself) replace the tuners and still have the same problem.

I am not interested in dissing cheap guitars(anymore). Since I found a couple I really like I am more open minded. $100 for a Tele copy seems almost free. Thx for the input.

Edit: I went to their site and priced their cheapest Tele. Delivered it was $265.00 CAD, plus whatever tax/duty they decide to add at the border. 

Just for the sake of it, I priced a Squire Affinity (Butterscotch)Tele at L&M they they were $299.00, so basically the same price. The advantage the Squire has, is I can play it first. Not sure Agiles are all that attractive all things considered. At least not the Teles.


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## sillyak (Oct 22, 2016)

Steadfastly said:


> Some people dish the Agiles but what you say about the appointments they come with are true. I specced out a custom one awhile back and it was loaded with just about every conceivable option you could think of and came out to just a little over $1000.00 USD. I do not own an LP from them but I did buy a tele about a year ago. It cost me $100.00 USD and is certainly nicer than any Squier. I also like that they have models with different neck widths. They are one of the few companies doing that.



$1000 USD will buy you a used Classic or all sorts of cool used Gibsons. I know I'd rather have that than a decked out Agile.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

sillyak said:


> $1000 USD will buy you a used Classic or all sorts of cool used Gibsons. I know I'd rather have that than a decked out Agile.


Each to his own. I would rather have a guitar made for me rather than a guitar made for the masses. If Gibson could do the same for the same money, I would look at them. What is on the headstock matters nothing to me. It's what I get for my money. And a used Gibson for $1000.00 wouldn't come close to the specs of a $1000.00 custom Agile. My opinion.


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

Never seen their guitars, but have seen several bits of their electronics. Some of the cheapest Chinese crap made.
I'd think twice about buying a guitar from them.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Rozz said:


> I have a LP Standard, that has the Graphtech saddles and nut and the tuning is rock solid. In my opinion many of the tuning issues with LPs can be solved at the nut. I have seen so many guys (including myself) replace the tuners and still have the same problem.
> 
> I am not interested in dissing cheap guitars(anymore). Since I found a couple I really like I am more open minded. $100 for a Tele copy seems almost free. Thx for the input.
> 
> ...


Well, I didn't have it delivered. That's where you end up paying outrageous prices to the shipping company. It has nothing to do to the value of the guitar. I used to live in St. Catharines, so it was an easy drive over to N. Falls, NY to pick it up at the UPS Depot. Some companies with ship via USPS which saves a lot of the cost that UPS and FedEx charge.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

dtsaudio said:


> Never seen their guitars, but have seen several bits of their electronics. Some of the cheapest Chinese crap made.
> I'd think twice about buying a guitar from them.


Which models? They have a range of them.


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

A variety of there stuff. Mostly stereo.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Which models? They have a range of them.


if he says all of them he would be correct.

Stealy, we've known each other ten years now and you've shilled for Rondo nonstop but you just can't seem to get high on your own supply, even with all those trips to the shipping depot south of the border. please entertain me and buy yourself an Agile, the custom one. you deserve it.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

dtsaudio said:


> A variety of there stuff. Mostly stereo.


So none of the top quality guitars?


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

Steadfastly said:


> Well, I didn't have it delivered. That's where you end up paying outrageous prices to the shipping company. *It has nothing to do to the value of the guitar. *I used to live in St. Catharines, so it was an easy drive over to N. Falls, NY to pick it up at the UPS Depot. Some companies with ship via USPS which saves a lot of the cost that UPS and FedEx charge.


Yeah, but it has everything to do with the final cost.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Rozz said:


> Yeah, but it has everything to do with the final cost.


Yes, not everyone can take advantage of living close to the border. Some who make frequent trips to the USA can also take advantage of the good pricing.


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

I have the Indio Tele that usually sells for $200, got it on sale. Its pretty nice, probably the weak spot is the small frets. I have the 15 watt tube amp too, it's great.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Im sure they're fine guitars but I find the les paul shape is odd looking, horn too small or something. Epiphones don't have this issue.


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

I didn't have mine delivered to Canada, either. Sent to Massena NY, drove down to get it (along with some other items). Amount saved was way more than the bridge toll and the gas.


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

tomee2 said:


> Im sure they're fine guitars but I find the les paul shape is odd looking, horn too small or something. Epiphones don't have this issue.


They have to do that legally so Gibson won't sue them.


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)




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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Kenmac said:


> They have to do that legally so Gibson won't sue them.


Well that explains it. I thought it was just the headstock shape they sued over.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

From many of the reviews of both the Monoprice and Rondo lines of guitars that I watched, the vast majority required some kind of extra work, often it was the detail work companies such as Epiphone and Squier will do, which is why there's a few hundred dollars difference between them and the online guitars. Often, these guitars required setups and fret work which means a trip to the luthiers if you can't do it yourself. Other issues were in fit and finish, more sanding, paint spillover, fretboard stains, etc.

I picked up a used Squier Tele over the holidays where the detail work was impeccable, no extra work was required at all. I think this is the main difference, if you order from Monoprice or Rondo, you're taking your chances and most likely, you'll be putting more money into the guitar in order to bring it up to the same standards as Epiphone and Squier. Seems less hastle to check these out in person rather than ordering online and not know what you're getting and how much more money you'll have to dish out.

Some reviewers compared them to Gibsons and Fenders, yet it was very obvious there were huge differences in play-ability and sound, showing that these cheaper guitars were no where near as good. That said, Gibsons and Fenders are still overpriced.

Granted, those online guitars have come a long way, but are still in a class on their own and while they are "looking" real good in general, the putting is in the details that other companies take into considering, hence the higher prices.


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

jimsz said:


> Seems less hastle to check these out in person rather than ordering online and not know what you're getting and how much more money you'll have to dish out.


I admit I'm a bit of a dinosaur, but I can't understand buying a guitar without trying it first. That means getting off your duff and going to a store in person.
Too many variables, and it is too personal a purchase not to do in person.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

jimsz said:


> From many of the reviews of both the Monoprice and Rondo lines of guitars that I watched, the vast majority required some kind of extra work, often it was the detail work companies such as Epiphone and Squier will do, which is why there's a few hundred dollars difference between them and the online guitars. Often, these guitars required setups and fret work which means a trip to the luthiers if you can't do it yourself. Other issues were in fit and finish, more sanding, paint spillover, fretboard stains, etc.
> 
> I picked up a used Squier Tele over the holidays where the detail work was impeccable, no extra work was required at all. I think this is the main difference, if you order from Monoprice or Rondo, you're taking your chances and most likely, you'll be putting more money into the guitar in order to bring it up to the same standards as Epiphone and Squier. Seems less hastle to check these out in person rather than ordering online and not know what you're getting and how much more money you'll have to dish out.
> 
> ...


There are many models from very cheap to Rondo's top of the line 3000 series LP's. Read the specs. They will not require any work, have 3/4" carved maple tops, etc., etc. Some have tried to lump all their offerings in one basket. Why do they do that with Rondo and some others when they don't do it with the big boys who have the same issues?

It's like comparing a Chevy Spark with a Cadillac. Same company; different product.

BTW, my $100.00 SX Tele had perfect frets and required nothing done to it. It also has a belly and forearm cut, something that you usually pay more for.


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## sillyak (Oct 22, 2016)

dtsaudio said:


> I admit I'm a bit of a dinosaur, but I can't understand buying a guitar without trying it first. That means getting off your duff and going to a store in person.
> Too many variables, and it is too personal a purchase not to do in person.


I've never bought a guitar without playing it first, but I wouldn't be opposed to it if I knew I could get my money back out of it (or come close). A used Gibson for a good deal you could do that. A brand new Rondo or Monoprice, definitely not getting your money out of it on the used market.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> There are many models from very cheap to Rondo's top of the line 3000 series LP's. Read the specs. They will not require any work.


Yet, that's not what was found from all the reviews regardless of the models. They all needed some work, which usually meant a trip to the luthiers. Some of the reviewers put up with the issues rather than spend the extra money. Of course, they still got a playable guitar for cheap, which is what some folks will put up with, while others will not. 

I've owned both expensive and cheap guitars, the cheap ones played and sounded like cheap guitars, which was made clearly evident especially when you pick up the expensive ones and find they play and sound awesome in comparison. So, while the cheap ones "look" nice, they certainly don't hold up beyond that.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

sillyak said:


> A brand new Rondo or Monoprice, definitely not getting your money out of it on the used market.


There's a really nice looking Agile LP for sale here, almost brand new, here's what the seller is saying about it...

"It's quality and finish far exceed entry level Les Paul Guitars."

Yet, it's been up for months for $490, while entry level Les Pauls have long sold. Go figure.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> BTW, my $100.00 SX Tele had perfect frets and required nothing done to it. It also has a belly and forearm cut, something that you usually pay more for.


Yet, I would suspect that the used Squier Tele I recently acquired for $300 would blow that guitar out of the water for playability and sound.


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## LaRSin (Nov 27, 2006)

jimsz said:


> There's a really nice looking Agile LP for sale here,


did search but couldn't find it , Do you link wouldn't mine having look.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

LaRSin said:


> did search but couldn't find it , Do you link wouldn't mine having look.


Agile Les Paul Style Guitar


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

jimsz said:


> Yet, that's not what was found from all the reviews regardless of the models. They all needed some work, which usually meant a trip to the luthiers. Some of the reviewers put up with the issues rather than spend the extra money. Of course, they still got a playable guitar for cheap, which is what some folks will put up with, while others will not.
> 
> I've owned both expensive and cheap guitars, the cheap ones played and sounded like cheap guitars, which was made clearly evident especially when you pick up the expensive ones and find they play and sound awesome in comparison. So, while the cheap ones "look" nice, they certainly don't hold up beyond that.


but, did you see the specs?


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

vadsy said:


> but, did you see the specs?


Funny you should mention that, here's a few lines from the spec sheet of that Agile linked previously by Steadfastly. I'm curious as to how this information is helpful to that specific guitar? It looks more like a whole lot of fluffy hype than actual specs.

- humbucker pickups help reduce hum and noise and offer superior performance by giving a thicker fuller sound than single coils; humbuckers also create a much larger magnetic field, which helps eliminate dead spots and increases overall power of the pickup
- High voltage, brass shaft pots for reduced noise and an improved pickup selector switch
- Two volume controls, two tone controls, and a 3-way pickup selector switch allow a wide range of expressive control
- Individually hand filed frets for professional feel and playability
- Stop-bar tailpiece transfers string vibration to the body of the guitar and produces superior sustain


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

^^ lol Surprised they didn't mentioned a hand crafted nut slotted and filed to hold each individual string like the warm caress of a piggy in a blanket.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

" *High voltage*, brass shaft pots"

Okay, someone please tell me why these pots need to be high voltage? Since when is high voltage cursing through the wiring of any guitar? Wtf?


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

jimsz said:


> " *High voltage*, brass shaft pots"
> 
> Okay, someone please tell me why these pots need to be high voltage? Since when is high voltage cursing through the wiring of any guitar? Wtf?


Well, in case it does, you don't want to miss out on any of it.  
And real men don't have plastic knobs either.


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## doblander (Dec 8, 2019)

Steadfastly said:


> There are many models from very cheap to Rondo's top of the line 3000 series LP's. Read the specs. They will not require any work, have 3/4" carved maple tops, etc., etc. Some have tried to lump all their offerings in one basket. Why do they do that with Rondo and some others when they don't do it with the big boys who have the same issues?
> 
> It's like comparing a Chevy Spark with a Cadillac. Same company; different product.
> 
> BTW, my $100.00 SX Tele had perfect frets and required nothing done to it. It also has a belly and forearm cut, something that you usually pay more for.


Speaking of SX. Years ago I bought a used strat "Vintage Series". At the time I was just rediscovering guitar playing after at least 40 years absence. I've bought many guitars since then, I have to get rid of some. But that SX is going in the coffin with me. Forum members speak of comfortable, good fit, easy to play. I know what they mean thanks to my SX. Forum members speak also of inferiority of cheap guitars. I have a pricey Gibson electric and It is stored in the closet because it's as heavy as a cow and doesn't sound better than my SX with it's two 20 dollar ebay pickups. Nor does it sound worse but overall the Gibson cannot deliver the mojo of an SX, the "stuff" that makes guitar meaningful/fun. I expect that a cheap guitar is very inadequate for a musician who needs better quality that can withstand " work" . But that higher end guitar is a darn poor investment for a hobby player. They simply do not sound or set up better to the extent that justifies their cost.


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## sillyak (Oct 22, 2016)

@doblander

"They simply do not sound or set up better to the extent that justifies their cost."

That's purely subjective though. Is there diminishing returns? Of course. I spent 2k on my prized used LP. I certainly find it better than any cheap guitar I've played (I have found cheap guitars that I absolutely love, but they aren't as good to me as my LP.)

Poor investment? Not worth the cost? That's up to the individual. I've certainly wasted 2k on far worse things than a good guitar.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

doblander said:


> Speaking of SX. Years ago I bought a used strat "Vintage Series".


Is this it? The reviewer equates its quality to that of a Squier Classic Vibe. Does that sound about right?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

doblander said:


> Speaking of SX. Years ago I bought a used strat "Vintage Series". At the time I was just rediscovering guitar playing after at least 40 years absence. I've bought many guitars since then, I have to get rid of some. But that SX is going in the coffin with me. Forum members speak of comfortable, good fit, easy to play. I know what they mean thanks to my SX. Forum members speak also of inferiority of cheap guitars. I have a pricey Gibson electric and It is stored in the closet because it's as heavy as a cow and doesn't sound better than my SX with it's two 20 dollar ebay pickups. Nor does it sound worse but overall the Gibson cannot deliver the mojo of an SX, the "stuff" that makes guitar meaningful/fun. I expect that a cheap guitar is very* inadequate* for a musician who needs better quality that can withstand " work" . But that higher end guitar is a darn poor investment for a hobby player. They simply do not sound or set up better to the extent that justifies their cost.


Inadequate? Maybe, but there is not a lot to a guitar. If it sounds good than the only thing that might be changed for better quality is the tuners, bridge, nut and perhaps the pots but that is all subjective. The only thing I would change on my SX is the bridge. The tuners, to my surprise, are fine and I am picky about having decent ones on my guitars.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

jimsz said:


> There's a really nice looking Agile LP for sale here, almost brand new, here's what the seller is saying about it...
> 
> "It's quality and finish far exceed entry level Les Paul Guitars."
> 
> Yet, it's been up for months for $490, while entry level Les Pauls have long sold. Go figure.


In fairness that guitar is listed in our CL, but it is located in the Sunshine Coast. How many people are in Gibsons since The Beachcombers stopped filming? ;-)


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

The only guitar I would buy without playing it is a Collings I-35.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> , but there is not a lot to a guitar



Have you designed, built, or even upgraded an electric guitar yourself? If so, let us know the details. Maybe make a thread on it please.


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## doblander (Dec 8, 2019)

There is definitely a place for guitars that are expensive. That is of course on a stage with band members and an audience. I'm all about 100 dollar used, entry level guitars that I can shim, tweak and refinish in my basement. Then I play it while I'm sitting right In front of my G-dec 15 watt amp, volume knob set at 2 to 3 and my junk grade pickups sound heavenly when I dial up a sound on the G dec that pleases me. A perfect outfit for a one man show in front of an empty room. If a good guitarist took my 100 dollar guitar to the stage, played my junk pickups and 5 dollar pots through his mega amplifier with volume knob set at scream, I guess my tuners would fail, the pickups would reveal their true worth(less) and cheap guitar would be unfit for that scenario. I have a Gibson LPJ 2013 which is apparently worth over 1,000, still a cheap guitar really but It doesn't sound better than the 50 dollar Aria strat I bo't and worked over. Plus the Gibson is too damn heavy and it doesn't have the"feel appeal" of the Aria. So I have decided that in my low volume no audience situation, a used entry level guitar with a new paint job by me is a waaaay better instrument than any 2500 dollar guitar you can name.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

doblander said:


> There is definitely a place for guitars that are expensive. That is of course on a stage with band members and an audience. I'm all about 100 dollar used, entry level guitars that I can shim, tweak and refinish in my basement. Then I play it while I'm sitting right In front of my G-dec 15 watt amp, volume knob set at 2 to 3 and my junk grade pickups sound heavenly when I dial up a sound on the G dec that pleases me. A perfect outfit for a one man show in front of an empty room. If a good guitarist took my 100 dollar guitar to the stage, played my junk pickups and 5 dollar pots through his mega amplifier with volume knob set at scream, I guess my tuners would fail, the pickups would reveal their true worth(less) and cheap guitar would be unfit for that scenario. I have a Gibson LPJ 2013 which is apparently worth over 1,000, still a cheap guitar really but It doesn't sound better than the 50 dollar Aria strat I bo't and worked over. Plus the Gibson is too damn heavy and it doesn't have the"feel appeal" of the Aria. So I have decided that in my low volume no audience situation, a used entry level guitar with a new paint job by me is a waaaay better instrument than any 2500 dollar guitar you can name.


Unfortunately some folks believe the context you've put this in applies to every musicians specific situation.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

jimsz said:


> Yet, that's not what was found from all the reviews regardless of the models. They all needed some work, which usually meant a trip to the luthiers. Some of the reviewers put up with the issues rather than spend the extra money. Of course, they still got a playable guitar for cheap, which is what some folks will put up with, while others will not.
> 
> I've owned both expensive and cheap guitars, the cheap ones played and sounded like cheap guitars, which was made clearly evident especially when you pick up the expensive ones and find they play and sound awesome in comparison. So, while the cheap ones "look" nice, they certainly don't hold up beyond that.


I wonder about people new to the instrument that buy a $100 guitar, not knowing any of this, and end up hating it, and guitar in general. All to save a couple hundred bucks. And they may end up spending that extra couple hundred trying to get the cheapo just to be playable. 

Instead, they could have bought a significantly better instrument for a few bucks more that may have changed their life. That's kind of sad.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> Inadequate? Maybe, but there is not a lot to a guitar. If it sounds good than the only thing that might be changed for better quality is the tuners, bridge, nut and perhaps the pots but that is all subjective. The only thing I would change on my SX is the bridge. The tuners, to my surprise, are fine and I am picky about having decent ones on my guitars.


I would agree that those guitars would be decent value if they were purchased in order to be stripped down and used as project guitars. For example, I'm currently looking for an SG to do just that, so I've been looking at the Epiphone line as well as the cheaper Gibson models.

Speaking of tuners, that was one of the major improvements on the Monoprice and Rondo lines, something that most reviewers were pretty happy.


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## doblander (Dec 8, 2019)

It's true that cheap guitars bought new are most often unplayable right out of the box. A kid likes the look of it, daddy pays maybe a few lessons and outfit appears on Kijiji. I buy it for less than daddy paid. The thing is, the music store did zero to accommodate that customer. If they would simply adjust the action to where the strings are actually in the viscinity of the fret board and they know that the fret ends are lethal. So the unknowing customer new to guitar is trying to learn a few basic chord shapes on an instrument that is fighting against them 100%. Customer is not coming back because the experience was bad. Now i (anybody) can take that same guitar, shim the neck, file the frets and it is transformed into a nice looking guitar that is a pleasure to play. But the dealer doesn't spend any effort on it because they likely can't make a profit if their technician spends his time tweaking the junk guitars. Catch 22. I love my 28 junk guitars because I can break them down without fear of damage to an expensive unit. I shim, file and tweak before filling dents and refinishing if needed. I have the time and this is a most rewarding hobby. I do not resell. Not yet anyway. I play them poorly in rotation in my basement, all alone. The hardware throughout my "inventory" is never tested because my volume on a 15 watt amp is set at no more than 2. I never use a whammy bar or bend strings and I'm a gentle strummer. My junk performs crazy good in that environment and E. Clapton does not take more pleasure from his Fender than I do from my Aria or Squire or Washburn or Tone or Univox or Stagg, etc. etc.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

doblander said:


> A perfect outfit for a one man show in front of an empty room.


LOL! I wonder how many of us caught that one right between the eyes.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

doblander said:


> It's true that cheap guitars bought new are most often unplayable right out of the box. A kid likes the look of it, daddy pays maybe a few lessons and outfit appears on Kijiji. I buy it for less than daddy paid. The thing is, the music store did zero to accommodate that customer. .


L&M offers an entire year of free work, including setups, to any guitar you purchase from them that has issues.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

jimsz said:


> L&M offers an entire year of free work, including setups, to any guitar you purchase from them that has issues.


Most guitars have a one year warranty. If there are issues, that is warranty work. L & M isn't giving you anything. Those repair charges go back to the manufacturer. That is just marketing on their part, making it look like they are giving you something for nothing.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> Most guitars have a one year warranty. If there are issues, that is warranty work. L & M isn't giving you anything. Those repair charges go back to the manufacturer. That is just marketing on their part, making it look like they are giving you something for nothing.


You may want to read this...

Canada's Music Store, Musical Instruments | Long & McQuade


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

jimsz said:


> You may want to read this...
> 
> Canada's Music Store, Musical Instruments | Long & McQuade


Yes, there is some value there that may be used in some cases. What it says is it "supplements" the one year warranty. What would not be covered under a one year warranty? Very little if anything. It mentions wear but that is subjective and few would put enough wear on a guitar in a year for it to need repair. I have seen a lot of this kind of thing over my years and to me it's mostly marketing for those that don't really consider what it offers and whether it will be used. It also helps the store promote paying more for new rather than the used market, even though we all know you can buy mint guitars in many cases these days for 50% of new. I have worked in mfr., wholesale, suppliers and retail and have seen pretty much all the games they play. Just call me Steadfastly cynical.


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> Yes, there is some value there that may be used in some cases. What it says is it "supplements" the one year warranty. What would not be covered under a one year warranty? Very little if anything. It mentions wear but that is subjective and few would put enough wear on a guitar in a year for it to need repair. I have seen a lot of this kind of thing over my years and to me it's mostly marketing for those that don't really consider what it offers and whether it will be used.


No, it's not marketing, it is a warranty for a number of items over and above what the manufacturer covers. I have used their warranty a few times and I can tell you from first hand experience, it is not marketing and is has very good value. And, if you had noticed, there is literally no warranty for the Rondo line of guitars. You got 30 days to send it back to them (shipping at your cost) for refund or repair. AND, you have to have written approval by Rondo before you can send it back. Lots of restrictions.



> It also helps the store promote paying more for new rather than the used market, even though we all know you can buy mint guitars in many cases these days for 50% of new.


Where exactly? I've got money ready for just such a thing.



> I have worked in mfr., wholesale, suppliers and retail and have seen pretty much all the games they play.


That's what's called an appeal to authority fallacy. Why not instead tell me about your experience with the L&M warranty on a guitar you purchased from them?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Just call me Steadfastly cynical.


I have a different word for it. Regardless, you being bent out of shape about all of this for so long is probably my favourite running gag here.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> Just call me Steadfastly Cyclical.


As in on and on and on.


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

I received an e-mail from Monoprice earlier this evening letting me know that the Tele style guitar I was interested in is now available but I think I'm going to wait awhile as they often have sales. I'll see how things are in March or April and whether I'll be getting a tax refund.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> I do not own an LP from them but I did buy a tele about a year ago. It cost me $100.00 USD and is certainly nicer than any Squier





Steadfastly said:


> BTW, my $100.00 SX Tele had perfect frets and required nothing done to it.


This is simply not true. I bought an SX guitar to practice some guitar maintenance skills, and while it is okay for the price and probably beats similarly priced Squier guitars, it *is not* better than any Classic Vibe Squier I have ever played. The frets on mine required work, but I expected that and then had something to practice my fret work on.



Steadfastly said:


> The only thing I would change on my SX is the bridge.


Good luck with that. The string-through holes are staggered on the SX Tele, so an after-market bridge won’t work. That’s one of the reasons that these aren’t the greatest modding platforms that many people hope they are. Some things like tuners, pots, switches, and pickups can be easily swapped, but a lot of hardware like bridges and pick guards are unique.



Steadfastly said:


> And a used Gibson for $1000.00 wouldn't come close to the specs of a $1000.00 custom Agile. My opinion.


That’s like saying hot dogs and steak are basically the same because they are both beef, and then saying a $5 hot dog is superior to a $5 steak. No kidding... good steak (and good guitars) cost more.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> Most guitars have a one year warranty. If there are issues, that is warranty work. L & M isn't giving you anything. Those repair charges go back to the manufacturer. That is just marketing on their part, making it look like they are giving you something for nothing.


Wrong. Warranty is there to fix a problem, something that's broken and renders the product non-functional. L&M provide setup service for free not to fix a problem but to serve the player's preference. Subtle difference that doesn't really translate to the HVAC world.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

There's a MIK Agile Tele, $240, Ottawa kijiji, if anyone's looking.
Semi-Hollow Telecaster Electric Guitar | Guitars | Ottawa | Kijiji


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