# Strat trem cavity...



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I had my strat set up last spring with 9-46 strings. I asked for a slight float. After watching a YouTube on setting up a trem (vibrato really), I tested the pull up and it is a 1/2 tone. I've found that Jeff Beck and a couple others have it set as much a 1 1/2 tones up. 

But just looking a the trem block cavity, I was wondering if this was set right? I notice that mine doesn't have a clamp, but I assume the screws function the same way to alter the tension. Would it be different if the springs were set parallel rather angled to the centre? Having heavy bottom strings than the usual 9-42s, I assume tension would be a higher for the bottoms, and that would have the effect, in part, of how much you could pull up on the trem for the the higher and lower strings.

This is sort of part one. Part two would be about the 6 screw vintage bridge - not asking about that now. 

Here it is.









I don't intend to do this myself, but i do want to be able understand this whole thing so I can tell someone clearly what I want.


----------



## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

Question #2:Make sure the 6 screws have the needed clearance to allow the plate to pivot up. There may be the need to remove some lumber to allow the block to pivot forward. I'm no expert but I've not noticed any difference in the trem spring placement.

Standing by for further enlightenment on Strat trems.


----------



## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

There are a few questions that I don't understand...
"mine doesn't have a clamp?"....what does that mean..?
Straight or slanted springs....you have the guitar...try it both ways and let us all know of all those amazing tonal differences between the two.

Here is the very best way to set up a strat floating trem...
make some notes and do it like it is shown....
G.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7luUzgDwwcs


----------



## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

As Ed said, the 6 screws holding the trem will have to let the trem come up that far. The 2 screws holding the claw well then get loosened to let the bridge plate rise to where you get the amount of up travel you want. This means adjusting, tuning, checking and repeating. After you get that done you will need to adjust your saddles for height and intonation.......then checking again.

I may be wrong about the parameters of a vintage trem, but it seems you want it to go up a bit much, but that is just my opinion.

As far as springs go, well that can turn into a can of worms. Some guys will swear that they should be parallel otherwise the tension isn't the same on every spring, others swear they prefer the feel of how you have it on yours, and there has been great gnashing of teeth over the topic. Like the amount of springs you use, it all comes down to personal preference. There has been great discussion and debate on whether or not the claw should be cocked a bit to put more tension on the bass side spring, again personal preference. There have been a lot of players, playing for a lot of years, and doing it very well, with what someone would call a guitar that is set up wrong. 

In my books, it is up to the player. That is the one who has to be satisfied with the instrument. Any of the adjustments can be reversed, so don't think you have to settle, you are not going to break anything by moving the springs and giving a screw a few turns. Just make sure to take notes so you can get it back if you don't like it. Knowing how to do a basic set up helps. If you can adjust the truss rod, string height and intonation, you have a good start.


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Put the springs straight, putting them on an angle is wrong. i did that and when i brought the guitar to Fred Gabrsek he gave me heck. LOL The reason is the center spring is now shorter than the other two so it really isn't doing anything. It has less pressure on it than the two outers. Putting all springs in the same alignment gives them all the same pressure. Also don't mix springs, they are not necessarily all the same tension. If you replace a spring, you should replace them all at the same time. 

The springs and claw have to exert equal pressure as the strings on the guitar. So you have to find the happy point. There are a few good videos on youtube you should watch.

Here's a decent step by step 


http://diystrat.blogspot.ca/2011/08/setting-up-or-adjusting-stratocaster.html


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I agree about the springs being parrallel.

Especially if you're going to try bigger pull up/back,
with the springs in different tensions, that middle one could possibly fall out.

Adjust the claw to balance the bridge. 
I had heard of guys angling the claw slightly, you may try that and see what it's like.
I haven't tried it myself.


----------



## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Just ran across this one...My 2 cents after playing strats (with the vibrato floating ) for many years. 
I'm not sure where or when I first ran across the fan style setup for springs, but it's what I have been using for along time now and I have had no issues with tuning or performance. I use 10 to 46's so a 3 spring setup is good for me. Over the years I have amassed a bunch of trem springs and found that some feel better than others for my taste, depending on number of turns on the spring, guage of the wire and small differences in length and tensile strength, sounds crazy but even the direction the spring is wound does have an overall affect. I am set up for a full tone of rise with the least amount of force necessary to pull up or push down. All of the spring variables mentioned will change things dramatically. As far as spring attachment to the claw/ trem block, to each his own, no one method is superior.My Godin RG 3 came from the factory with the fan style of spring placement. FWIW With the claw set parallel to the body cavity ,the distance between the center (straight) spring compared to the angled spring is..........well try it yourself, you may be suprised.

One thing I forgot ...if this is a pic of your guitar, one thing that I would do is remove the trem block and smooth out the block cavity. Those wood and finish shards sticking out will impede the travel of the block.


----------



## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

sulphur said:


> I agree about the springs being parrallel.
> 
> Especially if you're going to try bigger pull up/back,
> with the springs in different tensions, that middle one could possibly fall out.
> ...


"that middle one could possibly fall out."

Sorry to disagree but.....it's not gonna' happen.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

That trem spring arrangement is fine. It's one of many ways to put them.

As for pulling up, there is a widely used pitch target which I could tell you but I'm too lazy to google it and can't remember.

I've tried a floating set up on a few Fender Strats and love the feel but always give up on really keeping them in tune.

I end up tightening the claw so that the bridge is firmly planted. I can still push down but it takes a little pressure.

If I need a whammy bar, I go for a Floyd.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Two springs is fine, as is 3, or 4, or 5. Angled is fine, as is straight.

BUT....

The point about them all having the same tension is spot on. So, if one is going to have 3 springs, they need to be straight or else one will be more "relaxed" than the other 2. If you have 2 springs, they could be *either* straight or angled, but they would both need to be straight OR at the same angle, for the reasons knight_yyz laid out. If 4 or 5 springs they would obviously need to be straight.

That said, different players have different string-gauge preferences, and I could see where a player who likes an "imbalanced" set that provides more tension on one side than the other, might wish to compensate by angling one spring a little differently, or perhaps an asymmetrical arrangement of 2 springs on one side and one on the other. But again, that isn't "correct", just an adjustment to complement an unusual string arrangement.


----------



## lovetoplay (Nov 8, 2013)

Insisting that the springs must be parallel just doesn't make sense, it doesn't matter. All that changes is the total amount of tension exerted by the springs and if the springs are arranged symmetrically then the tension on the block is even from side to side. However, the strings don't exert even tension from the low E to high E so having the springs exerting even tension on the trem block isn't necessarily correct. Here is a link to the method Carl Verheyen uses to set up his Strat trems, his spring claws are at angle to the end of the cavity. http://guitarwtf.com/2012/10/09/carl-verheyen-whammy-bar-setup-secrets/


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

loudtubeamps said:


> "that middle one could possibly fall out."
> 
> Sorry to disagree but.....it's not gonna' happen.


Try a one and a half step pull up on that trem and let me know what happens.


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Watch @ the 1:00 mark...

[video=youtube;CiY9uLUmPzI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiY9uLUmPzI[/video]


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

The middle spring has less tension on it than the two outers when the outers are on the angle. Does it harm anything or hinder anything? I doubt it, but the tension is definitely not equal between the three springs. I have to pull the cover off mine to see what Fred did to mine. I told him I wanted it set up to only go up or down a step. Maybe my claw is on an angle, but I haven't looked. I also have the vintage tremolo not sure if that makes any difference. Both posted videos are showing the 2 point tremolo.


----------



## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

See? I said it was a can of worms.....just give the player what he wants.


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Jim DaddyO said:


> See? I said it was a can of worms.....just give the player what he wants.


Set you guitar up, or have it set up as you like, after all it's your guitar.

I just tried to indicate the potetial problem with that setup.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Jim DaddyO said:


> See? I said it was a can of worms.....just give the player what he wants.


Agreed. What a hullaballooo. Way too many options, way too many springs.

My idea would be to get rid of the whole thing and put on a Bigsby. It goes up or down, and it only has one spring to screw with.


You're welcome. :smiley-faces-75:


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

They make a bigsby for a strat? i don't think I've ever seen one.


----------



## Guest (Oct 9, 2015)




----------



## NtR Studios (Feb 28, 2008)

no way a spring is gonna fall out. if it does, your claw is not tightened enough.


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

NtR Studios said:


> no way a spring is gonna fall out. if it does, your claw is not tightened enough.


Where's the claw going to be to set it up for a three tone pull up on the bar?


----------



## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Just to be clear (man, I have heard that phrase too many times over the last couple of months), unless instructed otherwise, I would put them parallel. But if the customer wants them fanned, that is the way they go in. I am not a pro, it is just a hobby for me.


----------



## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

This spring thing is way over complicated... 2, 3, 4, or 5 (will effect feel, not function); parallel or trapezoid; angled claw or straight... all that maters is the springs being in equilibrium with string pull and the amount of travel available to raise/lower pitch.

Very few truly "need" a 1.5 step pitch rise so don't think the setup is not right if it doesn't do that... that Verheyen guy really muddied the waters on this topic.


----------



## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I don't find it complicated at all:

If you're doing your own set ups, you set it the way you like it
If you are getting someone to do your set ups, communicate how you like it
If you are doing a set up for someone, listen to what he wants, do that.


----------



## lovetoplay (Nov 8, 2013)

Jim DaddyO said:


> I don't find it complicated at all:
> 
> If you're doing your own set ups, you set it the way you like it
> If you are getting someone to do your set ups, communicate how you like it
> If you are doing a set up for someone, listen to what he wants, do that.


Exactly. It isn't complicated at all. Just because some video says your spring will fall out doesn't make it true, it won't happen. And no, Carl Verheyen didn't muddy the waters, he explains his method of setting up the claw and his reasoning very clearly.


----------



## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

lovetoplay said:


> ...And no, Carl Verheyen didn't muddy the waters, he explains his method of setting up the claw and his reasoning very clearly.


Except you don't need to angle the clam to get the 1.5, 1.0, and 0.5 step bends on the E, B, and G strings respectively... angling the claw contributes to nothing in this regard... thus muddying the waters.

I'm not saying it is complicated, I'm saying the it is NOT complicated and people over complicate a simple thing.


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

lovetoplay said:


> Exactly. It isn't complicated at all. Just because some video says your spring will fall out doesn't make it true, it won't happen. And no, Carl Verheyen didn't muddy the waters, he explains his method of setting up the claw and his reasoning very clearly.


The guy in that video has been a guitar tech for decades. I'll take his advise.


----------



## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

i always used to just tighten all the springs, usually four,
so the tailpiece sat flush on the body.
threw the bar away.

a few years ago i began toying with using the bar-
so i went to 3 springs, parallel, with a slight float.

i can use the bar for slight pitch changes and warbles and things without worrying about going out of tune-
but heavy bar abuse on a stock vintage style strat and expecting to stay in tune is more maintenance than i want to put into it.

it can be done, guys have done it for years, but its too much bother for me.


----------



## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

i always used to just tighten all the springs, usually four,
so the tailpiece sat flush on the body.
threw the bar away.

a few years ago i began toying with using the bar-
so i went to 3 springs, parallel, with a slight float.

i can use the bar for slight pitch changes and warbles and things without worrying about going out of tune-
but heavy bar abuse on a stock vintage style strat and expecting to stay in tune is more maintenance than i want to put into it.

it can be done, guys have done it for years, but its too much bother for me.
and then there are the different tunings i like to use lol- 
things get dicey real fast.

now you need different guitars, different setups.
and people wonder why i have so many guitars.

edit- been away too long.
i double posted instead of editing.
lol!


----------



## lovetoplay (Nov 8, 2013)

sulphur said:


> The guy in that video has been a guitar tech for decades. I'll take his advise.



Overall it's not a bad setup video, he either ignored the nut or it was edited out. And the guitar wasn't in tune or he may not have had time to stretch the strings. He has a great sense of humour, I don't believe he actually meant the spring would fall out. He knows it can't, he just being a wise guy.


----------

