# Chinese copy



## jimmydime (Nov 22, 2013)

Has anyone here purchased a Stratocaster or Les Paul copy from oversees? And if so, how was the experience, and how was the guitar?


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

Oh lordy....this won't end well....


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Yikes. I am outa here...


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## Guest (Feb 17, 2014)

Here's the rehash.
http://www.guitarscanada.com/showthread.php?46809-Chinese-Strat-Teardown-(Pepto-Bismol-Special)


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

**EDIT** ^ he beat me to it.

Our host bought one and documented his experience extensively. Bottom line, it's junk. Here's the link http://www.guitarscanada.com/showth...down-(Pepto-Bismol-Special)&highlight=Chinese


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## Stonehead (Nov 12, 2013)

Some are ok and some are junk... really not worth the chance because if u do get a junker there's no returning it. If you can look beyond the Fender/Gibson logo's there are a ton of great inexpensive guitars out there.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

1. Read the thread offered by laristotle.

2. Search other forums for more posts about fakes, especially posts which offer video of the fake being played. Some buyers seem to think they got a good value, but when you hear the new instrument being played you know they are wrong.

3. Keep on saving for a real guitar.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

Buy chineese if you want but don't support counterfeiters


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I think there's 2 main issues with buying one: ethics, and resale. Not much different from buying a fake Rolex for example. You're buying it simply to fool other ppl that you spent a lot of money.

as to quality, I think it's all over the map . Some are pretty good, the tells of it being a fake are often nearly imperceptible s a player...things like "the binding isn't right".
but there are horror stories of particle board bodies as well.
and don't assume that the components are left either....ie the "Grover" tuners and "EMG" pups are prob fake too.


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## jimmydime (Nov 22, 2013)

Well, I checked out the original thread by the Admin. Very informative and well done. I also realized that some members have quite a strong opinion on fakes or copies (as I put it). One of the first things I found in my research was that it is totally up to the buyer as to what goes on the head stock, neck plate and or pick-guard. They will custom make any logo you want, or you can get the Fender logo if you want. So its up to the purchaser on that issue. I also found that if you contact the seller, they will do everything possible to make the guitar exactly as you want it. I ordered one and talked to the seller who will make sure the guitar is exactly what I ordered. They will do custom colors if you want as well. The seller will send me photos of the guitar before it ships to make sure it is exactly what I want.
Mine will come with the Fender logos and neck plate, as well as a custom shop Logo with the signature of a real custom shop builder on the rear of the headstock.
This guitar is being purchased to hang on my wall and to use as a conversation piece. 
I found it quite comical in the original post where people want Customs to take action, go after the bad Chinese sellers, on and on. Lets get real. Customs going after shipments of sub $200 dollar guitars would be a waste of my tax dollars and hardly worth the bother. 
If you want to go after real criminals, go after Fender. They import a TON of Chinese bodies and necks and then charge tons of money for the finished product. My son has a Modern Player Strat, and a Classic Vibe.....both made in China. The fact that they tell you that your American Std is built in the USA, hides the fact that all the components come for some Asian country for pennies and then they sell it to you for $1200 dollars. Now that is a crime!
I am of the opinion that if you want one to play or for whatever reason, all the more power to you! Just don't resell it as the real thing.


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

That's YOUR experience and YOUR opinion...doesn't mean it's the right one. Your research is flawed by the way...yes they can be custom ordered with whatever you want..but for the most part they are sold by the boatload premade with counterfeit logos etc. already on them. Only a few sellers offer customization, not ALL. Hung on a wall and used as a conversation piece? Please....5yr olds can bullshit better than that.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

I guess I don't get why you would spend good money to hang, on a prominent wall of your home no less, an instrument that you know full well to be counterfeit. It's just inexplicable to me. Even if it's allegedly intended to be "a conversation piece," anyone who knows about guitars would just react negatively to the tawdry inauthenticity of it all. I have no problem with guitars as wall decor, if that's your thing... it's the fact that you would pay _anyone_ to cobble together a guitar with a fake badge slapped onto it.

You might impress non-musicians I suppose. But using a fake as decor? No thanks.


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## Stonehead (Nov 12, 2013)

Sure hang it on your wall, keeps them out of circulation and the real deal guitars get play time...


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

jimmydime said:


> Well, I checked out the original thread by the Admin. Very informative and well done. I also realized that some members have quite a strong opinion on fakes or copies (as I put it). One of the first things I found in my research was that it is totally up to the buyer as to what goes on the head stock, neck plate and or pick-guard. They will custom make any logo you want, or you can get the Fender logo if you want. So its up to the purchaser on that issue. I also found that if you contact the seller, they will do everything possible to make the guitar exactly as you want it. I ordered one and talked to the seller who will make sure the guitar is exactly what I ordered. They will do custom colors if you want as well. The seller will send me photos of the guitar before it ships to make sure it is exactly what I want.
> Mine will come with the Fender logos and neck plate, as well as a custom shop Logo with the signature of a real custom shop builder on the rear of the headstock.
> This guitar is being purchased to hang on my wall and to use as a conversation piece.
> I found it quite comical in the original post where people want Customs to take action, go after the bad Chinese sellers, on and on. Lets get real. Customs going after shipments of sub $200 dollar guitars would be a waste of my tax dollars and hardly worth the bother.
> ...


So much wrong,I don't know where to start .


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Yeah, not much of a first impression. Sorry I tried to help.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

the one Chinese LP copy I've come in contact with was dropped off to me by a friend who bought it online........didn't sound right when played. I set it up, set the intonation and it still didn't sound right. I started checking with the tuner and discovered the tuning was all over the map. 2 steps sharp, 3 steps flat, then 5 steps sharp, etc, etc as you went up the neck on all the strings. just crazy. I don't know how far out the frets would have to be to make it like that but they were out. New finger board? he took it home. Looks great hanging on his wall btw


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## jimmydime (Nov 22, 2013)

DrHook said:


> That's YOUR experience and YOUR opinion...doesn't mean it's the right one. Your research is flawed by the way...yes they can be custom ordered with whatever you want..but for the most part they are sold by the boatload premade with counterfeit logos etc. already on them. Only a few sellers offer customization, not ALL. Hung on a wall and used as a conversation piece? Please....5yr olds can bullshit better than that.


Sorry, but that is not correct. I contacted several sellers by both email and by phone and everyone of them will remove the headstock decal and either leave it blank or put one on of your choosing.. I thought about putting a Gibson logo on it for even more laughs. 
Your mistake is that you make an assumption by simply by what the seller has on his website. All you have to do is contact them and ask a few questions. Their customer service is excellent. 
You call it counterfeit, I call it replica. And if I do want to play it I will put a GFS loaded pickgaurd on it and hash away. As it happens I don't really intend to play it, but I forgot, that's bullshit. Lol..


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

You can believe what you want to believe, everyone has a right to their opinion. Enjoy your guitar, just accept the fact that not everyone agrees with you and implying that it's a replica and not counterfeit is your way of justifying ownership. The luthier whose name is going on the back of that thing...it's one thing to use a company logo...but a craftsman's name...that's low, and if you can't see the reasoning behind that statement, I question your integrity.


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## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

jimmydime said:


> …[ ]...They import a TON of Chinese bodies and necks and then charge tons of money for the finished product. ...The fact that they tell you that your American Std is built in the USA, hides the fact that all the components come for some Asian country for pennies and then they sell it to you for $1200 dollars. …[ ]...



I suspect that there is a bit of exaggeration here. Which begs the question, so here's a general list. Does anyone here know, for the American Standard, American Deluxe or American Whatever?
- wood blank for body
- body cut
- body finished
- maple for neck blank
- rosewood for neck - India!
- neck cut
- frets
- nut
- dots
- neck fretted/dots installed/nut installed
- neck finished
- tuners and ferrules
- string tree
- neck plate
- neck screws
- jack cup
- pickups
- pickup covers
- 5-way switch
- jack
- wire
- pickguard
- bridge
- endpins
- various screws


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

strat talk would be the place to go for those answers those guys know these things. 

to the o/p:

i love cheap guitars as much as anyone, and if you wanna buy one of those guitars, it's your dough. however, the idea that you'll get a quality instrument is ludicrous. if it's playable, and can even be properly intonated, then you got lucky. 
you may not intend to sell it later as a fake when you tire of it. but the guy you sell it to might. or worse. maybe the next guy will throw decent parts on it, and sell it to some noob as a fake that is just as good, and sell it for a ridiculous price. i garantee there is at least one like that on kijiji in your area right now. there almost always is here in toronto. lastly, i say for the money, you can do better. if you wanna inexpensive guitar there are tons of them out there that are good buys for your hard earned $$.


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## waynev (Jan 18, 2014)

>>> ... hang on a wall

really, all that just to hang on a wall
I mean really?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

To be clear. There are builders and then there are resellers of junk. The one I got for the pepto teardown was simply a cheap piece of garbage from a reseller. Picture a guy on the street in China with a dozen of them hanging from string on a rod. But there are builders in China that will build to spec for you. You will still get cheap guts but a better build


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## astyles (Apr 6, 2009)

Bubb said:


> Buy chineese if you want but don't support counterfeiters


What Bubb said. And even if you are able to choose the type of decal (or no decal/logo for that matter), make no mistake, these same ppl are still in the business of producing knockoffs. I've read too many stories on this forum alone of ppl getting duped out of their $$. Don't support it.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

astyles said:


> Bubb said:
> 
> 
> > Buy chineese if you want but don't support counterfeiters
> ...


^ this.

Even if it's just to hang on your wall and you have no intention to sell it as the real thing, eventually one day it will make its way into circulation and some unsuspecting person is going to get ripped off.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

I had a couple of holes in my guitar collection. Really wanted an electric 12 string and a guit with a wiggle bar. When I saw a gold top Les Paul 12 string I fell in love. For 260$ shipped from China it was too good to be true. 

Now the guitar: the action was a mile high and barely playable. Luckily I know a little about guitars and cut the nut slots and took a hammer to the bridge to get the action low enough. Plays really good now. 
Intonation is not perfect, but it's pretty good for a 12string. Wouldn't buy a 6string because of the neck issues though.
The p-90s in it were garbage. As you'd expect. I put a Seymour mini hum in the neck and it really sounds wonderful. No regrets. I absolutely love this guitar. 
I'm in a good situation were i fixed the guitar myself and had a good pickup laying around. I told myself beforehand that I wasn't spending a fortune upgrading. Not everybody has the skills or discipline to do this.
about the Gibson logo on it: I find it embarrassing really. I put electrical tape on the logo when I gig the guitar. Not because of the moral of it but because I don't want people thinking I paid big bucks for this thing.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

A copy is one thing. Some are good and others are crap.

If you buy a guitar with a forged logo, thanks for ignoring the concept of intellectual property rights.

Forged guitars should not be supported.

The host of this site bought a forged Strat just to see how bad it could be, sort of a public service.

It was pretty bad.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

If the intent is truly to hang on the wall as a piece of art, I see nothing wrong with doing that. Guitars are definitely art to me. Kinda like paying an artist to paint you a picture of your favorite artist favorite picture and hanging it on your wall. The only difference here is the op is asking about quality, which not critical if you are just hanging it on the wall.


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

Just to be clear and for the sake of disclosure, I own a fake Les Paul, a gold top with P90s. I also have 9 or ten genuine Les Pauls at any given time (just bought a plum insane Futura this weekend). I ordered my counterfeit goldtop direct from China and no it wouldn't pass any kind of rudimentary inspection and I have always been upfront about it's heritage. It took some work to get it to play and intonate properly and a friend who is a salesman at L&M said it played better than most Epis...but the electronics were weak which I already knew. I bought it because I wanted a goldtop that I wouldn't be afraid to really get my hands dirty on with modifications and as an exercise in taking junk to funk as I learned about cutting my own nuts (ouch) and fret dressing and leveling. I'd like to mark it as a copy on the back of the headstock in a way that someone would not be able to cover over in the event of my demise or just passing it on. I don't exactly see myself pounding a stamp into the back of the headstock, but engraving and refinishing might be the answer or even branding for that matter. So if the OP thinks I have no idea of what I'm talking about when I disagree with his choices, he couldn't be more wrong, and trust me, put a fake besides a genuine and you'll always see the quality in a genuine and notice the flaws in a fake. Would I have bought another fake, no. I bought a cheap ass guitar to learn mod skills on and then realized I was perpetuating the counterfeit industry even if I never planned on selling it. Now I want to make sure it never gets passed off as an original.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Why not just go out and buy a used Fender Stratocaster to hang on the wall? At least then the main topic for your conversation piece won't be "look at how awful these Chinese knockoff guitars are."


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Milkman said:


> A copy is one thing. Some are good and others are crap.
> 
> If you buy a guitar with a forged logo, thanks for ignoring the concept of intellectual property rights.
> 
> ...


Yes, and I don't think I would ever buy one for playing purposes. There are just too many used guitars that pop up here at decent prices to be bothered.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

It would be more of a conversation piece if instead of a direct forgery , it had jimmydime as a logo , or Trollbait ,or maybe POS Guitar Co.,pretty much anything else .

how does this conversation go anyways

"Hi...oh I see you have a Fender hanging on your wall ."

"No actually ,it's a cheap chineese forgery,right down to the custom shop builders name ."


right


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

I'd rather hang a picture of a classic guitar than hang some dungheap on my wall.................


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## jimmydime (Nov 22, 2013)

DrHook said:


> Just to be clear and for the sake of disclosure, I own a fake Les Paul, a gold top with P90s. I also have 9 or ten genuine Les Pauls at any given time (just bought a plum insane Futura this weekend). I ordered my counterfeit goldtop direct from China and no it wouldn't pass any kind of rudimentary inspection and I have always been upfront about it's heritage. It took some work to get it to play and intonate properly and a friend who is a salesman at L&M said it played better than most Epis...but the electronics were weak which I already knew. I bought it because I wanted a goldtop that I wouldn't be afraid to really get my hands dirty on with modifications and as an exercise in taking junk to funk as I learned about cutting my own nuts (ouch) and fret dressing and leveling. I'd like to mark it as a copy on the back of the headstock in a way that someone would not be able to cover over in the event of my demise or just passing it on. I don't exactly see myself pounding a stamp into the back of the headstock, but engraving and refinishing might be the answer or even branding for that matter. So if the OP thinks I have no idea of what I'm talking about when I disagree with his choices, he couldn't be more wrong, and trust me, put a fake besides a genuine and you'll always see the quality in a genuine and notice the flaws in a fake. Would I have bought another fake, no. I bought a cheap ass guitar to learn mod skills on and then realized I was perpetuating the counterfeit industry even if I never planned on selling it. Now I want to make sure it never gets passed off as an original.


I find it comical that you are so quick to judge my motives, when you yourself purchased a "forgery" (your words). And whats worse is that you purchased it to actually use. You can say that you bought it to do mods on, but there is only one reason you do mods.... to make the guitar more to your liking to PLAY. 
Then there's this: 
"Why not just go out and buy a used Fender Stratocaster to hang on the wall? At least then the main topic for your conversation piece won't be "look at how awful these Chinese knockoff guitars are."
I have no interest in spending $1000 more or less to own an American Strat, and I simply would not have the funds to do so. Unlike others, I do not have the ability to have "9 or ten genuine Les Pauls at any given time". That's in access of $20,000 in guitars at any given time but the poster still felt it necessary to purchase a Chinese Les Paul. 
This was also stated: "put a fake besides a genuine and you'll always see the quality in a genuine and notice the flaws in a fake."
I was clear from the onset that this guitar was purchased as a replica, and I have no intentions of trying to pass it off as the real thing. I have no interest in modifying the guitar to try and make it more genuine. 
Then there is the quality issue.
"I'd rather hang a picture of a classic guitar than hang some dungheap on my wall................."
If you want to talk about quality, or lack of, lets discuss my "genuine" Fender Strat. Yes, its MIM and it is a total POS. This guitar retails for close to $450 and yet the build quality will probably be worse than the Chinese replica I have ordered. I was giving this guitar in trade for some work I did for a friend. I would never have paid any $$ for this junk and it has the "legitimate" fender name on the head stock. 
I break down the issues for you.
Fret ends are horrible, running your hand down it its like a cheese grater.
Frets are super soft. If playing every day it needs a fret dress every 90 days.
Neck has to be shimmed to proper angle.
Neck pocket paint was cracked.
Tuners are junk.
Nut is horrible piece of plastic
After stripping, found that the body has no less than 7 pieces of wood glued together.
Bridge is garbage.
Has a cheap tin sustain block. 
Hardware is cheap and has started to corrode.
The list goes on and on... So, the point is..... do you really get what you pay for? Not in the case of a Fender! For $450 you should get the quality that they put into their $1200 dollar American Strat (and even some of them are not so great out of the box). But you don't!!! So once again I ask who are the real criminals?
I am buying a cheap Chinese replica for $188 and I'm sure I will get what I pay for. Maybe more.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I have no problem with copies. Suhr makes them, they say Suhr on the headstock, Anderson makes them, they say Annderson on the headstock. No problem at all with copying a good design and putting your own little twist on it. As long as you are up front and not passing it off for what it isn't. Make what you want, good or bad, but don't try to tell folks that someone else did it. That someone else did the job with a certain amount of pride and standards and put THEIR OWN name on it and gained what ever reputation they deserved. Earn it yourself. If you want to be a hack, so be it, own it.


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

I have a question or two. Why would you presume that your $450.00 fender should be made to the same specs. and quality as a $1200.00 Fender? Why would anyone buy the top of the line Fender when the same thing was available for approx. 1/3 the price? I know I would not expect top of the line for 1/3 the price. I'm talking new guitar against new guitar same brand, I'll grant some leeway for country of origin. I might hope I'd get lucky and find one, but I wouldn't bet on it.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

jimmydime said:


> So once again I ask who are the real criminals?
> I am buying a cheap Chinese replica for $188 and I'm sure I will get what I pay for. Maybe more.


That's a pretty poor argument for buying a forgery. You're supporting an industry that rips people off and some of those people have been GC forum members.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

It's not nearly as big a deal as some of you are making this out to be. They say Gibson and Fender but they're not. No big deal.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

Cups said:


> It's not nearly as big a deal as some of you are making this out to be. They say Gibson and Fender but they're not. No big deal.


Tell that to the unsuspecting Dad who buys his son a $1000 Fender Strat that is actually a $188 forgery.


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

JimmyDime

At the heart of the matter, you posted a question asking for anyone's input and experience on a forum where a quick search would have given you the answers. By and large the forum is a community of guitar nuts, some professional, some recreational, and all with varying degrees of interest, but we all love the brands and styles of guitars that is unique to each of us. Your post after that, well...you basically came in to someone's home and shat on the rug so to speak, knocking the industry and bragging about what you were getting. That in itself insinuated the rest of us were fools for paying for the instruments we have. But don't worry..I get it....you can appreciate the beauty of the guitar built by the master craftsmen of a legendary brand, but sadly your champagne tastes aren't inline with your Mr. Noodles budget. You want my guitars? You can have them...you can get them as easily as I did...find a drunk driver to wipe you off your motorcycle so you spend two years learning how to walk again. I have these guitars because I can't have my life back the way it was and I'm limited in a lot of things I can do. 

You want wall art? I have just the thing for you....one of 500 made and licensed by Fender. A friend asked me to bring it by my local L&M so he could see it and he put it on a guitar stand in the showroom during their inventory blowout and it drew a crowd more so than the custom shop stuff surrounding it. I'll give you such a deal pal..and I guarantee your friends will talk more about this than they would your fake custom shop.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

People get ripped off everyday in every area of life. 
And I don't know too many Dad's that buy their kids 1k worth of used guitar. 
Guitars are not sacred, there are forgeries everywhere. 
Kind of playing Devil's advocate here too. Like I posted before, I'd prefer my guitar not to have the Gibson logo.


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## jimmydime (Nov 22, 2013)

fredyfreeloader said:


> I have a question or two. Why would you presume that your $450.00 fender should be made to the same specs. and quality as a $1200.00 Fender? Why would anyone buy the top of the line Fender when the same thing was available for approx. 1/3 the price? I know I would not expect top of the line for 1/3 the price. I'm talking new guitar against new guitar same brand, I'll grant some leeway for country of origin. I might hope I'd get lucky and find one, but I wouldn't bet on it.


The presumption is yours. I'm not saying the guitar has to be made to the the same specs, but the overall fit and finish, quality of workmanship and functionality of the guitar should be the same. Obviously the components will be different. What type of quality would you expect for $450 dollars? Is a POS that has worse finish and fit than $188 replica exceptable? Is it ok for them to sell you junk just because it has the Fender logo on it?
They justify it.... its ok to them. I will tell you that if I offered some guy in China $450 to build me a Strat with a MIM logo on it, it would be a lot better than the stuff Fender sells.
They take full advantage that the Fender logo will sell the guitar. I have no pity on them.

"Cups It's not nearly as big a deal as some of you are making this out to be. They say Gibson and Fender but they're not. No big deal. "

Exactly.​


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

yeah, it is a big deal, that is why there are copyright laws and laws against forgery. What they are doing is illegal. What Fender does with it's logo and what they put it on is their business. They own it. They gain or suffer by it. Same with Gibson or any other maker. If you want to make guitars, get put your own name on it. Don't try to ride on someone else's coat tails.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

jimmydime said:


> Then there's this:
> "Why not just go out and buy a used Fender Stratocaster to hang on the wall? At least then the main topic for your conversation piece won't be "look at how awful these Chinese knockoff guitars are."
> I have no interest in spending $1000 more or less to own an American Strat, and I simply would not have the funds to do so. Unlike others, I do not have the ability to have "9 or ten genuine Les Pauls at any given time". That's in access of $20,000 in guitars at any given time but the poster still felt it necessary to purchase a Chinese Les Paul.


OK smart guy: http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...ocaster-MIM-Mexico-1996-97-W0QQAdIdZ567883568

How about that? It's a *real* Fender Stratocaster at an asking price of $12 more than the fake you're looking at.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

hardasmum said:


> Tell that to the unsuspecting Dad who buys his son a $1000 Fender Strat that is actually a $188 forgery.


Not everyone is or cares to be a well educated, savvy guitar buyer. Some people just want a quality instrument for whatever reason and trust the brand name on the headstock will give them that.

Not everyone is or cares to be honest about what they are selling. Some people just want to flog a POS forgery on an unsuspecting buyer, take the money and run.

Putting a quality brand name on any guitar not made by that company is deliberately deceitful if not the bait for out and out fraud. If you want to own a guitar that says its a Les Paul but is not a Les Paul, no matter what the quality, it is nothing more than owning a silly lie.

And if you do sell it, somewhere down the line you may have only done the legwork for a potential crook who may take some poor sucker's entire budget of hard earned money set aside for a name brand guitar. Being a well educated gearhead is your schtick and not necessarily anyone else's.

And finally, why, oh why would you want to own an illegal forgery when you can own a high quality copy for such reasonable money these days?

I was going to just avoid this thread but some very smart people seem to still be so very clueless if not amoral to the situation. I'm only here to state my case, not to argue or debate it.


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

Cups said:


> People get ripped off everyday in every area of life.
> And I don't know too many Dad's that buy their kids 1k worth of used guitar.
> Guitars are not sacred, there are forgeries everywhere.
> Kind of playing Devil's advocate here too. Like I posted before, I'd prefer my guitar not to have the Gibson logo.


I get it Cups, and you're right there are forgeries everywhere in all sorts of things and we DO get ripped off all the time....and we try not to be and sometimes it just happens. Logo or brand, it's all personal taste and I can respect that you don't want a company's logo on the guitar. I don't think you're playing devil's advocate so much as just expressing your opinion and how you feel about things. The difference between you and the OP is that while you're being sincere, he's acting as if he's the only person with all the answers and the rest of us are stupid for paying for Brand X guitars.


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## jimmydime (Nov 22, 2013)

Morkolo said:


> OK smart guy: http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...ocaster-MIM-Mexico-1996-97-W0QQAdIdZ567883568
> 
> How about that? It's a *real* Fender Stratocaster at an asking price of $12 more than the fake you're looking at.


Been there, done that, reread the above post about MIM Stratocasters. Would not own another. Besides it wouldn't provide such interesting conversation as a replica of an American Custom Shop.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

jimmydime said:


> Been there, done that, reread the above post about MIM Stratocasters. Would not own another. Besides it wouldn't provide such interesting conversation as a replica of an American Custom Shop.


Hey you don't need to explain anything to me, just that most people grow out of playing pretend at an early age.










Good luck with that. :smile-new:


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## jimmydime (Nov 22, 2013)

Jim DaddyO said:


> yeah, it is a big deal, that is why there are copyright laws and laws against forgery. What they are doing is illegal. What Fender does with it's logo and what they put it on is their business. They own it. They gain or suffer by it. Same with Gibson or any other maker. If you want to make guitars, get put your own name on it. Don't try to ride on someone else's coat tails.


I love this one. Its against the law. Its illegal... blah blah blah. You realize that you break the law everyday.. there a tons and tons of petty laws that are never enforced, and this is another one of them. And once again, these are not sold as the real thing, they are sold as replicas or copies, not as the real thing.
Copyright law is a slippery slope at best and no one is going to challenge that for a cheap replica guitar. Not a big deal. 
If you try and re-sell it as the real thing, that's different. That is fraud and a serious criminal activity.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

jimmydime said:


> Jim DaddyO said:
> 
> 
> > yeah, it is a big deal, that is why there are copyright laws and laws against forgery. What they are doing is illegal. What Fender does with it's logo and what they put it on is their business. They own it. They gain or suffer by it. Same with Gibson or any other maker. If you want to make guitars, get put your own name on it. Don't try to ride on someone else's coat tails.
> ...


This entire thread smells of trolling to me. 

You ask for opinions on buying a fake guitar from China and a few hours later you come back to announce that you've ordered the guitar and proceed to bash Fender's offshore production as an excuse that warrants you purchasing a forgery.

Then you get upset and defensive when sensible people express their feelings about buying fake guitars. 

One day your guitar will be passed off as the real thing and sold to an unsuspecting buyer. 

I think that's shit.


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## jimmydime (Nov 22, 2013)

DrHook said:


> I get it Cups, and you're right there are forgeries everywhere in all sorts of things and we DO get ripped off all the time....and we try not to be and sometimes it just happens. Logo or brand, it's all personal taste and I can respect that you don't want a company's logo on the guitar. I don't think you're playing devil's advocate so much as just expressing your opinion and how you feel about things. The difference between you and the OP is that while you're being sincere, he's acting as if he's the only person with all the answers and the rest of us are stupid for paying for Brand X guitars.


Once again these are your words. I am not insulting anyone or trying to undermine the value they have in there instruments. I never said anyone was stupid for buying anything. You insulted me with your initial post, claiming that you had an insight into my motives. You insult me further with your comment about "champagne taste but Mr. Noodle budget." You also claim that I am "bragging" about what I have ordered. In no way am I bragging about buying a guitar that costs $188. You continue to say that I am supporting "counterfeiting", when it is clear that the guitar is not being sold as a legitimate Fender, but as a replica. Definition of counterfeiting "an imitation intended to be passed off fraudulently or deceptively as genuine; forgery." 
You also bring legal arguments into the mix. Which seem ridiculous when looking at the cost of the guitar.
Let me assure you that hostility breeds hostility. 

I am simply saying that the thought of holding the Fender logo as the Holy Grail is flawed. The thought that these guitars are built by "Craftsmen" for a sacred brand is almost comical. Are the American Standards that sell for $1200 or more worth it? I guess they are, because people continue to buy them. The fact that some guy in China copies the "sacred logo" pisses some people off, even though nothing is sold as legitimate Fender.
To me its no biggie. 

I keep thinking back to a post I read on some other forum by a guy who had just purchased a brand new American Standard for $1380. He was thrilled by his brand new guitar. It was almost perfect. All it needed was new nut (cut too low), and new pickups. The originals where too dark.
Was the guitar worth the $1380 he paid? Must have been..... he bought it.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

hardasmum said:


> This entire thread smells of trolling to me.
> 
> You ask for opinions on buying a fake guitar from China and a few hours later you come back to announce that you've ordered the guitar and proceed to bash Fender's offshore production as an excuse that warrants you purchasing a forgery.
> 
> ...


You just hit the nail on the head.

That's it for me too. I have to agree, with 11 posts and all of them this thread, it is a troll. I am no longer going to feed some shit head that is just here to stir the pot.


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## jimmydime (Nov 22, 2013)

hardasmum said:


> This entire thread smells of trolling to me.
> 
> You ask for opinions on buying a fake guitar from China and a few hours later you come back to announce that you've ordered the guitar and proceed to bash Fender's offshore production as an excuse that warrants you purchasing a forgery.
> 
> ...


Just to clarify, I ordered the guitar a day before I posted. I simply wanted to know if anyone had experience with such a purchase. The original posters thread was well done. I was certainly supprised to the reactions to his post and felt that people commented simply on feelings and not on facts. I'm also surprised by the reaction to my post. Again, I don't think it is a big deal.
Again, I am glad that you can look into a cyrstal bal and see the future. Personally I would use it to win the lottery rather than future of my guitar, but to each his own.

- - - Updated - - -



Jim DaddyO said:


> You just hit the nail on the head.
> 
> That's it for me too. I have to agree, with 11 posts and all of them this thread, it is a troll. I am no longer going to feed some shit head that is just here to stir the pot.


Sorry, I am confused. I have no idea what this is. Trolling is something I do in my boat.
?????????


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Come-on guys. What do you really expect from a guy that lists his location as "Sometown, Ontario" You've been had.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

I feel so dirty...


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## doriangrey (Mar 29, 2011)

jimmydime said:


> Sorry, I am confused. I have no idea what this is. Trolling is something I do in my boat.
> ?????????


You really should stop now...you're embarrassing yourself...maybe the admin will close this thread because it is becoming a sad joke


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

bluzfish said:


> I feel so dirty...


You do? I'm the idjit that kept coming back and posting more....I hate to say it but after a rough couple of days at work...I needed to vent in this thread ...my bad.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

hardasmum said:


> This entire thread smells of trolling to me.


yup...that's why I suggested Trollbait for a logo


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Here ia a link to an interesting recent thread:

Why-Do-We-Have-A-Lot-More-Bickering-Here-Lately

Cheers

Dave


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

jimmydime said:


> Again, I am glad that you can look into a cyrstal bal and see the future. Personally I would use it to win the lottery rather than future of my guitar, but to each his own.


I don't need a crystal ball to know what is certain. One day your fake will be auctioned off at an estate sale.


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## doriangrey (Mar 29, 2011)

DrHook said:


> You do? I'm the idjit that kept coming back and posting more....I hate to say it but after a rough couple of days at work...I needed to vent in this thread ...my bad.


don't get sucked in by the little troll... they get a kick out of people getting worked up by their troll bait


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

jimmydime said:


> I love this one. Its against the law. Its illegal... blah blah blah. You realize that you break the law everyday.. there a tons and tons of petty laws that are never enforced, and this is another one of them. And once again, these are not sold as the real thing, they are sold as replicas or copies, not as the real thing.
> Copyright law is a slippery slope at best and no one is going to challenge that for a cheap replica guitar. Not a big deal.
> If you try and re-sell it as the real thing, that's different. That is fraud and a serious criminal activity.


You're right there are many petty laws that are not enforced, like it's illegal to (fart) pass gas in a public place, it's still illegal to pass a person riding a horse along a road in some parts of Canada. One thing that is enforced is copyright law, just ask Microsoft, they are more than happy to have copyright law enforced. Just because you and many other people have gotten away with this scam for quite some time does not mean that copyright law will not be enforced. Step an the wrong toes long enough, as people did with Microsoft, and the big bad people who own those copyrights just might come and stomp all over your toes. By the way have you caught any fish here on GC, trolling, trolling.


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## allanr (Jan 11, 2012)

While all of my common sense is saying to me, "Don't feed the trolls.", I'm just struggling a bit to much for restraint here.

Dear OP,

Ordering, specifying, and buying a guitar that has a fake logo and a fake builders' signature is bad. It is immoral, unethical, and illegal. 

It distresses me that your moral compass is so misaligned that you cannot see this for yourself. Even though I strongly suspect that you posed your question simply to have an opportunity to justify it extensively (ie a troll) I hope that you will read this and reconsider your choice.

If people stop buying counterfeits other people will stop making them. It is within your power to make the world a slightly better, or a slightly worse place.

'Nuff said.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Since I'm an avid swarmist:

China Baaaaaaad. USA and Canada goooooood.

Unless you're ordering a wife.


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## jimmydime (Nov 22, 2013)

fredyfreeloader said:


> You're right there are many petty laws that are not enforced, like it's illegal to (fart) pass gas in a public place, it's still illegal to pass a person riding a horse along a road in some parts of Canada. One thing that is enforced is copyright law, just ask Microsoft, they are more than happy to have copyright law enforced. Just because you and many other people have gotten away with this scam for quite some time does not mean that copyright law will not be enforced. Step an the wrong toes long enough, as people did with Microsoft, and the big bad people who own those copyrights just might come and stomp all over your toes. By the way have you caught any fish here on GC, trolling, trolling.


You are quite wrong about copyright law. It is poorly enforced and is unsuccessful in most instances. The fact that Microsoft made an example of a few, is a literal drop in the bucket. Also while we are on the topic of Microsoft you must know that this is a case in the USA. I'm sorry, I have made the assumption that you are talking about Windows copyright. 
The scope of a enforcing USA copyright legislation on a Chinese company would be next to impossible. To be honest, if they thought that they would be successful they would have already done it. 
I'm not sure what the scam that I and others have gotten away with but I resent the implication of wrong doing.


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## jimmydime (Nov 22, 2013)

allanr said:


> While all of my common sense is saying to me, "Don't feed the trolls.", I'm just struggling a bit to much for restraint here.
> 
> Dear OP,
> 
> ...


Again.. Immoral, illegal, unethical. That is your opinion and if you want to get down to that, several other posters have stated the fact that they too have ordered replicas (including the admin). The fact that you have decided that I am a bad person, and that someone else will eventually profit from the guitar I bought is ludicrous. I am no different than any of these others, the admin purchased the guitar for a certain purpose, so did I. 
The fact that you say I am trolling, which I had never heard before this thread. Is completely false. This is an accusation with no merit. I have posted here a few times and have never had this kind of negative, closed minded response.

- - - Updated - - -



adcandour said:


> Since I'm an avid swarmist:
> 
> China Baaaaaaad. USA and Canada goooooood.
> 
> Unless you're ordering a wife.


Now that is funny,,,, thanks for the laugh.


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## jimmydime (Nov 22, 2013)

Jim DaddyO said:


> You just hit the nail on the head.
> 
> That's it for me too. I have to agree, with 11 posts and all of them this thread, it is a troll. I am no longer going to feed some shit head that is just here to stir the pot.


I have reviewed your post and will talk to the admin about your violation of the forum rules. Thanks for your input and your insults sir.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

jimmydime said:


> Jim DaddyO said:
> 
> 
> > You just hit the nail on the head.
> ...


Forum rules are just petty ones that we all break. Can't see anything bad about breaking a few dumb rules.


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## doriangrey (Mar 29, 2011)

what? you start the thread and you stir it up throughout and then you don't like it when it goes south on you? wow...doing a great job of making friends on this site


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

Have you heard the term phishing, phishing and trolling frequently are seen walking hand in hand across the internet.


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## jimmydime (Nov 22, 2013)

doriangrey said:


> what? you start the thread and you stir it up throughout and then you don't like it when it goes south on you? wow...doing a great job of making friends on this site


I have simply asked a question and have stated facts. I appreciate the passion of the members on the subject. I have not made a direct insult towards any member of this forum and have only defended my position about my purchase. It would be great if people would respond with facts and not feelings.
The issue that some forum members are offended by the facts I present is unfortunate.

- - - Updated - - -



fredyfreeloader said:


> Have you heard the term phishing, phishing and trolling frequently are seen walking hand in hand across the internet.


I have heard of phishing and I believe it has something to do with fake web sites or something, I'm not sure what that has to do with my posts???

- - - Updated - - -



hardasmum said:


> Forum rules are just petty ones that we all break. Can't see anything bad about breaking a few dumb rules.


I do not believe this is factual. Its up to the powers that be to enforce such rules at their discretion. If they don't, then flame away, I expect nothing less.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)




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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Lets try to stay away from the personal attacks or we will have to shut this one down. Opinions can be made without the personal attacks.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

jimmydime said:


> hardasmum said:
> 
> 
> > Forum rules are just petty ones that we all break. Can't see anything bad about breaking a few dumb rules.
> ...












that is all


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