# Trying To Be Patient



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I ordered my new Yamaha FG830 one month ago on March 20 from Long & McQuade.

Today would be 23 business days since then!


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

I got on a Luthier's build list a little over 9 years ago....

Just sayin'


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Guncho said:


> I ordered my new Yamaha FG830 one month ago on March 20 from Long & McQuade.
> 
> Today would be 23 business days since then!



I would blame Yamaha, not L&M. Yamaha probably ships in batches so might not send yours until they are sending a full order.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

You are a patient man, Guncho. Don't they even have a date for you?


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

No and they were kind of grumpy when I asked how long they figured. I was being really relaxed about it but figured I should ask. Right?

It's ok. I don't really need it til the campfire jams start happening but it would be nice to have.

I have my other two acoustics til then.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

It's funny most guitar players have you know this guitar for open tuning slide, this guitar for drop d, etc.

My needs are
Acoustic #1 Hobby recording and serious jams
Acoustic #2 Normal campfire jams
Acoustic #3 Camping, beach and "this might get out of hand" campfire jams

lol

I have 1 and 3, this will be #2.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I don't understand why they were so snooty about it when you asked. They should have been a lot nicer and sympathetic seeing they had such a patient customer.Like I said, you are patient. Buffalo ain't that far away.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

On the website it says 10 business days.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Does this help?*#*(


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Sounds like it needs a setup. A little buzzy.

I've actually never seen a youtube video that does the FG830 justice.

Actually that is really buzzy. You'd think they would have set it up before making the demo video.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Man still no guitar. I ordered an umbrella off Amazon and I knew where it was every step of the way.

Brand new guitar? Somewhere between Japan and here? Maybe?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Guncho said:


> Man still no guitar. I ordered an umbrella off Amazon and I knew where it was every step of the way.
> 
> Brand new guitar? Somewhere between Japan and here? Maybe?


I was thinking of you yesterday when I was at Tony's Music Box in Fredericton. They had everything but the FG830 in stock.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

They can't keep them on the shelves!


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Same story with my audio interface and a guitar strap. But as @colchar said, it's probably not L&M


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Just so weird that they don't even know what country it is in.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Steadfastly said:


> I don't understand why they were so snooty about it when you asked. Buffalo ain't that far away.


 I would've said something similar had I gotten snotty service. 

Actually, I just had a row with someone. I asked if he treated all his customers with the same amount of attitude. I won't be back


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Guncho said:


> Just so weird that they don't even know what country it is in.


If you don't get one by the first of June, you can PM me. I will be heading your way and might be able to pick one up and drop it off to you if you wish as there will be some shops with stock on my way.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Guncho said:


> Man still no guitar.


Go down there and make an example out of someone. When they sqack about it not being their fault and they just work there etc. tell them yeah I know all that but I'm here now and it's show time.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> If you don't get one by the first of June, you can PM me. I will be heading your way and might be able to pick one up and drop it off to you if you wish as there will be some shops with stock on my way.


Appreciate the offer but I've already returned one brand new one as it had issues so will definitely be buying it from somewhere I can easily return it if need be.

I've noticed that Cosmo has gotten another in stock and the one I returned is gone. Worst case scenario I'll drive up there.

Really I don't "need it" til June just taking a long time.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Guncho said:


> Appreciate the offer but I've already returned one brand new one as it had issues so will definitely be buying it from somewhere I can easily return it if need be.
> 
> I've noticed that Cosmo has gotten another in stock and the one I returned is gone. Worst case scenario I'll drive up there.
> 
> Really I don't "need it" til June just taking a long time.


Just thought I would give you an option, Patient One.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Guncho said:


> Man still no guitar. I ordered an umbrella off Amazon and I knew where it was every step of the way.
> 
> Brand new guitar? Somewhere between Japan and here? Maybe?


Sorry to hear about your wait. While Amazon sometimes amazes me, like delivery the day after an order, sometimes it is out to lunch as well. I ordered an in-stock audio interface in January. They then said it was out of stock and would soon be restocked. I've since had two messages telling me they had a firm delivery date but I haven't had a confirmed shipping notice or anything yet. 

Of course I can cancel the order any time before it ships. If I really needed it, I would have done that. But I don't so I'll wait it out. They carried another order like this for over 2 years once (an SACD), before they finally gave up and cancelled it on their end. I wish I coulda got that order.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Just wondering if you ever got your guitar or are still patiently waiting?


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

They said early to mid June. looking at my calendar mid-june will be tomorrow but nothing yet no.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Guncho said:


> They said early to mid June. looking at my calendar mid-june will be tomorrow but nothing yet no.


L & M must have been waiting to put a big enough order together so they could get maximum discount. Since they are available from many other places, that is the only reason I can guess at for the long delivery.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Actually they are not available anywhere I can see in Canada. No long and mcquade has one. Cosmo doesn't, steves, tundra, la music.

Stores have the FG800 or FG820 but no FG830.

They told me that they don't think Yamaha made enough to meet demand.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Looks like Vancouver has one in stock today so that's a good sign.

Yesterday no Long and McQaude in Canada had one.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Guncho said:


> Looks like Vancouver has one in stock today so that's a good sign.
> 
> Yesterday no Long and McQaude in Canada had one.


Well, the earth's trade winds in our area go from west to east so hopefully they'll bring your guitar east before too long.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

I played one yesterday at L&M Bloor. Nice guitars.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

So my guitar finally found it's way to Burlington after three months.

The sales guy on duty tried to get me to pay for it before trying it. No, no, no. 

It sounded great but the action was a bit high and there was some buzzing on the low frets on the D string and the G string 3rd fret sounded dead. Sent it upstairs for a setup and will have to wait a week for it to be done. Hopefully they can resolve those issues and if not I guess I will return it and try to find another one.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Very wise of you. Hopefully it all turns out good after you being so patient.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

It's been awhile so I had to revisit the thread title for this thread "Trying to be patient". I must say, after what they've put you through to purchase this guitar, you have to be one of the most patient people I've come across in a long time. I hope the guitar is worthy and is everything you want it to be.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

It is quite the saga. I hope it works out to. If I had known it would take this long to get another one I would have explored having the shop at Cosmo see if they could figure out the first one I bought instead of returning it.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2017)

Sometimes when things are this troublesome I take it as a sign and move on...


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Got an email saying the setup was done and went to check it out. I sent it up because the 2nd and 3rd frets of the D string were buzzing, the 3rd fret of the low E sounded dead and the action was a bit high. According to the receipt the tech, adjusted truss rod, leveled fretboard, dressed recrowned and polished, adjusted action, adjusted saddle, oiled bridge, etc.

So the action was a bit lower maybe 3.5/32 low and 2/32 high but the exact same buzzing on the D and dead sounded 3rd fret E were still there.

Back upstairs it went.

If they don't get it right the next time I will return it aand look for another one.

I really hope I'm not being too picky. To make sure it wasn't just me picking super hard in these areas I picked up a Martin D-18 and played the exact same thing and when I got home I played the exact same thing on my old Yamaha. They ring clean.

I really hope this is worth it. I love the sound of the FG830. It's the closest thing I've found to my Martin D-18e Retro for under $1000.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)




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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I have now returned two Yamaha FG830's and have been looking for a new guitar for five months.

Still that metallic buzzing on the D 3rd fret. If I'm buying brand new and paying full retail I want a guitar free of fret buzz with good action. is that too much to ask?

Now to find another FG830. They sound so good. I can't give up on it.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Guncho said:


> I have now returned two Yamaha FG830's and have been looking for a new guitar for five months.
> 
> Still this metallic buzzing on the D 3rd fret. If I'm buying brand new and paying full retail I want a guitar free of fret buzz with good action. is that too much to ask?
> 
> Now to find another FG830. They sound so good. I can't give up on it.


Surely there's some good one's out there that will meet your expectations. If these are in production, have you emailed Yamaha with your concerns?


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I'm just wondering why you're holding on so tight for this particular guitar. Sounds like a bit of a lemon to me. Why not find something different? Surely there are other makes out there that are just as good sounding and feeling at a similar price. There's a shit tonne of guitars out there.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I tried a lot of guitars before deciding on this one and it was the best of the bunch.

I love how it sounds.

That's it.

There's got to be one out there that doesn't buzz and has good action.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Guncho said:


> I tried a lot of guitars before deciding on this one and it was the best of the bunch.
> 
> I love how it sounds.
> 
> ...


Most guitars off the rack need a setup to your preferences, don't they?


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Possibly yes but I have sent both guitars to their repair shops at both stores for a setup. The last one at L&M I sent back twice. If they can't get rid of fret buzz after two attempts I'm not buying it.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Guncho said:


> I tried a lot of guitars before deciding on this one and it was the best of the bunch.
> 
> I love how it sounds.
> 
> ...


I assumed you went over the issue with a tech or Luthier like jdto suggested. Or was it right out of the box? I've followed this thread from the get go, but I don't know (or forgot) the specifics.

Edit: just saw your post there in response. I had the same issue with a compensated nut on an EBMM. Sent it back and looked for something else. And I REALLY liked that guitar. That really sucks for you man. Sorry....I know the feeling.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

With the latest one from L&M I ordered it three months ago, it arrived I tried it, it had some fret buzz so I sent it up to L&M's repair shop for my free setup. I can only go at night so the repair guys are not there but the sales guy made notes of what I said the issues where. The salesmen agreed it was buzzing under normal playing conditions. It came back from repair and the issues were not resolved so i sent it back again with very specific notes. ie the exact frets that were buzzing. There was still bad fret buzz on the D string 3rd fret so I returned it.

Heading to Cosmo tomorrow to try the one they just got in.

I'm sure this sounds like I am being super picky and I am. It's a brand new guitar at full retail. I expect no buzzing during normal playing conditions and good action. Does that seem like an unrealistic expectation?

On a new guitar you get a free setup so it's not like you buy it and then the setup is your problem to get done unlike a used guitar.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Not abnormal, but I've found that the L&M setups are hit and miss. I get mine done by a luthier now and I appreciate the difference. Yes, it me some money, but my guitars feel great. He says we should be able to play every note cleanly at every fret on the guitar (even the ones you can barely reach on an acoustic) and he sets them up that way and dresses the frets so it works. I'm a hack, but even I can appreciate the difference.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I hear you. An actual luthier may very well have been able to resolve the issues on both guitars but I would have to pay out of pocket for that setup and if they couldn't resolve it could I still return that guitar?

If I bought a brand new car and it had issues, I'm not going to take it off the lot with the hope that my mechanic can fix them.

I'm going to say give me another car of the same model.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Guncho said:


> I hear you. An actual luthier may very well have been able to resolve the issues on both guitars but I would have to pay out of pocket for that setup and if they couldn't resolve it I would no longer be able to return that guitar.
> 
> If I bought a brand new car, I'm not going to take it off the lot with known issues with the new hope that my mechanic can resolve them.
> 
> I'm going to see give me another car of the same model.


I understand your point, although I don't see why you wouldn't be able to return the guitar to Long & McQuade within their return period just for having a good setup done. If their people can't get it right and your luthier can, then you've got yourself a great guitar. But adjusting a saddle height, filing a nut slot or dressing some frets to get a guitar to play properly should not be a reason to not return the guitar. Even if someone does a fret dress, if the guitar still buzzes, it should be returnable (especially since their guys can't do it). At the very least, I'd get someone with a more experienced eye to have a look and let you know if it's fixable. You might be missing out on many years of a great-playing, great-sounding guitar over an issue that $80 could solve. After playing hundreds of guitars off the wall, I have played very few where I haven't felt it could do with a tweak here or there. 

Of course, if you find one at Cosmo's that meets your needs, then all of the above is moot. Best of luck.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I hear you. But can you really get a setup + fret work + strings + tax for $80?

This is a $400 guitar. I'm not spending $150+ to make a $400 guitar play correctly.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2017)

Guncho said:


> I hear you. But can you really get a setup + fret work + strings + tax for $80?
> 
> This is a $400 guitar.


Case closed.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Guncho said:


> I hear you. But can you really get a setup + fret work + strings + tax for $80?
> 
> This is a $400 guitar. I'm not spending $150+ to make a $400 guitar play correctly.





Player99 said:


> Case closed.


Expecting a $400 guitar to not need any work is not realistic, in my experience. I agree that $80 is probably low, but if adding the $150 makes it play perfectly for you and gives you years of enjoyment, then that is part of the cost of getting what you want. You have stated multiple times that this is the guitar you want and that you love the sound and it's perfect for you. I hope you find one that plays perfectly out of the box, but so far your efforts have shown that they do not. Probably because this is a $400 guitar.

How much time and effort will you put into finding the one that is perfect? How many months have you waited for that perfect guitar? Is that worth the cost of a proper setup and fret dress? To me it would be, if I loved the guitar that much.


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## luker0 (Apr 18, 2017)

Guncho said:


> I hear you. But can you really get a setup + fret work + strings + tax for $80?
> 
> This is a $400 guitar. I'm not spending $150+ to make a $400 guitar play correctly.


A) yes you can get a setup done for $80 With cheap strings

B) why not? I spent $150 for a setup and nut replacement on a $300 guitar. Now it is one of my favourites to play. Lots of buzz and action issues that were completely resolved. 

There are many guitars in my opinion in the $400 range that end up playing and feeling like $750-900 guitars by getting a proper setup including fret levelling and crown, neck adjustment, string height and intonation. 

Just because it is new in that range does not mean it was setup properly from the factory or the hacks at L&M. If we were talking a $3000 guitar I would feel differently. 

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Between this and a member who had an issue with a D-18?, this has got to be two of the worst new guitar nightmares I've heard of in recent times. I am with you on this Guncho and I can't believe a Yamaha was so bad right out of the box.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I'm a hunter.

I'll get my prey.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> Between this and a member had with a D-18?, this has got to be two of the worst new guitar nightmares I've heard of in recent times. I am with you on this Guncho and I can't believe a Yamaha was so bad right out of the box.


You can't believe a wooden guitar which has travelled across the world and through many different climates may not maintain its ideal setup conditions?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Did you try Steve's in Toronto? They may have one.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

They have a Tobacco burst but I want Natural. If Cosmo doesn't work out tomorrow I might consider it.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

jdto said:


> You can't believe a wooden guitar which has travelled across the world and through many different climates may not maintain its ideal setup conditions?


A good guitar store should be checking out and adjusting if needed every guitar that arrives in the store. I believe Cosmo does.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Guncho said:


> A good guitar store should be checking out and adjusting if needed every guitar that arrives in the store. I believe Cosmo does.


Right, but that means the guitar is not "right out of the box" anymore. It's been checked and tweaked after being taken out of the box. 

The bottom line is, I hope you have good luck at Cosmo.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Good luck at Cosmo Guncho. Maybe L&M got a bad batch or something. I'm assuming you returned it.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Guncho said:


> They have a Tobacco burst but I want Natural. If Cosmo doesn't work out tomorrow I might consider it.


There is one in Moncton as well. I am heading there next weekend. I might go check it out on the following Monday.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

For what it's worth. I got a Sigma DR28V from Mojo Music as a backup if I lose it I ain't out much guitar cost me 650. It plays, good and it's intonated good. Sounds close to my Martin guitars and better than the numerous cheap guitars including cheapass martins that I tried. If this was the only guitar that I had I could live with that and I have some nice guitars right now. This one was set up good at delivery and I have changed nothing except lower the bridge a little and added a k&k. Going to a jam tomorrow and that's the guitar I'm taking


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

How do Sigmas compare to mid-range offerings from brands such as Simon & Patrick, Seagull, Yamaha, etc.?


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

colchar said:


> How do Sigmas compare to mid-range offerings from brands such as Simon & Patrick, Seagull, Yamaha, etc.?


Gonna be entirely subjective but:

*DR-28V*
Body Size: D-14 Fret
Top: Solid Sitka Spruce
Back & Sides: Indian Rosewood
Neck: Mahogany
Nut: Bone
Saddle: Bone/Compensated
Fingerboard: Indian Rosewood
Scale Length: 25.4” (645 mm)
Neck width at nut: 1-3/4” (44,5 mm)
Tuning Machines: Nickel, Grover Open-Geared

As for Simon & Patrick, I have a Norman B20(6) which is probably similar to Simon and Patrick as they are made in the same place. I was going to ditch the Norman guitar before I got the Sigma bcs the Norman wasn't that great although well enough made. The Sigma plays and sounds more like my Martins although not near as good but through a PA who's gonna notice much. I scalloped the braces on the Norman to see what would happen and it got a bit better but still not as much thump as the Sigma.

When I got the Sigma guitar they brought in two bcs they figured the other one would sell after I'd picked one. There was a bit of variation and I took the better one. So probably worth trying few of them.

I think the Sigma that I have is pretty good for the punk-bluegrass, outlaw shit that I play and I tried a good few different manufacturers before buying this. At one point I was just going give up and look for a used 2012+ D18 for 1,500 and let it take a shit kickin if that's what it came to but I ended up gettin the Sigma for 650 two years ago and it's going good so far.

Edit:
Sigmas are pretty much a Martin clone given their history which you can look up.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

@Wardo's Sigma plays nicely and sounds good. I strummed it a bit at the Riff Wrath and I liked it.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

There are some older Korean made ones available on Kijiji for cheap. Might be worth looking into those rather than the used Mexican Martin or mid=level Godins that I was considering.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Another complaint about Long and McQuade. You would think that if some guy has been waiting three months for a guitar, maybe you might want to give it a once over before handing it to him? They literally opened the box in front of me and handed it to me. I had to tune it up to pitch myself. At Cosmo I know they inspect and adjust every guitar before putting it on the floor.

It just makes sense. You want people to buy these things right?


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2017)

Guncho said:


> Another complaint about Long and McQuade. You would think that if some guy has been waiting three months for a guitar, maybe you might want to give it a once over before handing it to him? They literally opened the box in front of me and handed it to me. I had to tune it up to pitch myself. At Cosmo I know they inspect and adjust every guitar before putting it on the floor.
> 
> It just makes sense. You want people to buy these things right?


Then you wouldn't be able to do an unboxing video.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Guncho said:


> Another complaint about Long and McQuade. You would think that if some guy has been waiting three months for a guitar, maybe you might want to give it a once over before handing it to him? They literally opened the box in front of me and handed it to me. I had to tune it up to pitch myself. At Cosmo I know they inspect and adjust every guitar before putting it on the floor.
> 
> It just makes sense. You want people to buy these things right?


It likely depends on each store and how business savvy the manager is but good business practice would dictate that they would.




Player99 said:


> Then you wouldn't be able to do an unboxing video.


They could always tape it up again.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Drove an hour to Cosmo. Same problem. D string buzzing on the 2nd and 3rd fret. I am a heavy picker and use a .8-.9 pick with light strings but neither my D-18 or my old FG441s buzz in this area under my normal playing. Tried various FG's 820, 840 another 830. Fret buzz in the same or different areas.

I guess I am back to square one.

So bummed out.

If you loved the sound of a guitar but it buzzed on a few frets when you played hard but normal hard and only on single notes would you live with it?


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2017)

No. It will only get worse.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Guncho said:


> Drove an hour to Cosmo. Same problem. D string buzzing on the 2nd and 3rd fret. I am a heavy picker and use a .8-.9 pick with light strings but neither my D-18 or my old FG441s buzz in this area under my normal playing. Tried various FG's 820, 840 another 830. Fret buzz in the same or different areas.
> 
> I guess I am back to square one.
> 
> ...


No. 

Have you tried any of the Alvarez Masterworks? You can get a used one for around $400.00-500.00. They are fine guitars with a somewhat Martin sound.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Ok I feel like an idiot.

I bought the same guitar again, the same one that I ordered, waited three months for and then returned.

Yep that one.

I think after the first one I bought from Cosmo that really had some buzzing problems, (even some notes up high fretting out) that I was super paranoid.

I played my old Yamaha again and when I played it normally on the D string 2nd and 3rd fret there was no buzz. When I really dug in there was buzz. So I took it to L & M to compare directly and when I played normally on the new Yamaha there was no buzz. When I really dug in there was some buzz on the D string 3rd fret but not as much as my old one. Plus it sounds like four times better than my old one.

I think I was looking for perfection in a $400 guitar and that is just not realistic. It's not a Martin D-18.

So I feel silly but all's well that ends well!

PS To celebrate I went to Costco, returned a backpack I had bought twice and had a waffle cone.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

OK..So I can finally say CONGRATS on your NGD! Correct?

ENJOY!

Cheers

Dave


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Congratulations. I hope you enjoy your new guitar.


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