# Live band price



## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

I just wanted to get an idea of what a band should be charging to do a live show , With 5 members and a drive distance of 112 kms one way , 1 1/2 hrs .. Bringing in and setting up a PA , and playing 2 hrs. 
We have been together for years and Know the songs well , but we are an unknown band , so It would be he minimum price you would take .Thanks for help .


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## Permanent Waves (Jun 2, 2020)

A rule of thumb used to be no less than $100 per man after expenses, but that was before COVID and the $2 liter of gas. You have a long way to go, with 5 guys and a PA so at least 2 vehicles, and you are supplying your own PA. I think $1000 would be a bare minimum to charge, probably $1200-$1500 would be more reasonable. I am not sure what the post-COVID reality is, but it seems demand for bands is outpacing supply right now, especially since reopening in the spring. I could be way off.


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## Peel Ferrari (Jun 22, 2017)

I would say $150 pp and $150-250 for the equipment. As for fuel, at least $50 pp unless you are car pooling. 1150-1250. Always ask the budget they have. Get a number before you waste your time. If you have a decent track record you can ask for more, if your starting out, you may want to do it for less..Youll find peoples perception is $500. They dont factor in the expenses, equipment or fuel. I say why bother for less, thats a long drive. You'll use your judgement and band's level of desire. That all said, they can always find a local band for less.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

$300 per member or more. 

Now that I am retired it's money to the charity of my choice. 

I think this may be unrealistic in an area with real competition, however.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Hell, in 1978 I didn't leave home for less than $100 per show and it had better be local. Weddings would be double. Travel and rentals if necessary, extra. Since then the industry has become battered and bruised so small town Southwestern Ontario is still about the same dollar wise. It ought to be triple that.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

The minute you start considering prices, compromise starts to become a main driver. I'm sorry to paint a gloomy picture, but in my opinion, live music is sadly undervalued by venue owners and the public in general.

Unfortunately I really don't see a path to profit for most bands now.

Play because you love it, or find a better way to earn a living.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Milkman said:


> The minute you start considering prices, compromise starts to become a main driver. I'm sorry to paint a gloomy picture, but in my opinion, live music is sadly undervalued by venue owners and the public in general.
> 
> Unfortunately I really don't see a path to profit for most bands now.
> 
> Play because you love it, or find a better way to earn a living.


I regret that I concur.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Covers Im guessing? find the last band that played there and ask what they got paid. Ask the venue what they expect to pay.

I can firmly say original music is gonna get you paid less lol.


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

Budda said:


> I can firmly say original music is gonna get you paid less lol.


Paid??? What is this "paid" thing that you are referring to when it comes to original bands? I think the going rate in Montreal for each band member is "a pint of our house draft."


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

Thanks for your responses , I don’t expect any profit and likely will only get enough to cover our gas . We are playing at a trailer park , we do the old classic rock . I don’t think bands will every get paid what they deserve, people think that since your doing something you like , they are doing you a favour , Playing at there venue.


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## hfisher3380 (Mar 5, 2006)

Milkman said:


> The minute you start considering prices, compromise starts to become a main driver. I'm sorry to paint a gloomy picture, but in my opinion, live music is sadly undervalued by venue owners and the public in general.
> 
> Unfortunately I really don't see a path to profit for most bands now.
> 
> Play because you love it, or find a better way to earn a living.


Agree. Once you start playing in bars etc all the bar owners care about is profit. One place we have played a few times has moved towards karaoke - and I was told “it’s doing GREAT”. Of course, karaoke costs them next to nothing and they still get a good crowd out. Another place, when I touched base with them a few weeks later to see what they thought…well I was told “I haven’t added up the numbers yet”. Truly all they care about is those numbers.

I get it, they’re running a business. All they really care about is profit. They don’t care how good the band is, they only care about how much booze they sell.

In THAT world…bands are gonna be hard done by in the gigging circuit.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

hfisher3380 said:


> Agree. Once you start playing in bars etc all the bar owners care about is profit. One place we have played a few times has moved towards karaoke - and I was told “it’s doing GREAT”. Of course, karaoke costs them next to nothing and they still get a good crowd out. Another place, when I touched base with them a few weeks later to see what they thought…well I was told “I haven’t added up the numbers yet”. Truly all they care about is those numbers.
> 
> I get it, they’re running a business. All they really care about is profit. They don’t care how good the band is, they only care about how much booze they sell.
> 
> In THAT world…bands are gonna be hard done by in the gigging circuit.


Karaoke is just one. Another is open jams. There are many bars now that do open jams. It's their way of providing entertainment without having to pay much except for the person hosting it. I know it does help people who are not in bands or just wanted to jam and not get involved with all things that come with being in a band. Nothing against it but it does show that these bars don't really care about the music, it's the bottom line that counts, bar has to make money.


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## hfisher3380 (Mar 5, 2006)

Chito said:


> Karaoke is just one. Another is open jams. There are many bars now that do open jams. It's their way of providing entertainment without having to pay much except for the person hosting it. I know it does help people who are not in bands or just wanted to jam and not get involved with all things that come with being in a band. Nothing against it but it does show that these bars don't really care about the music, it's the bottom line that counts, bar has to make money.


Yup good point. And really, in a free market, this is what happens. Your skills are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them. Doesn't matter how much work you put into it, how much gear you have to move around, how late you have to stay up to play 3 full sets. You will only get paid what someone is willing to pay you. So do it because you love it, not to make money.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I’m in a small town with lots of really good bands, original and covers. Our band is covers only. We decided to scale back a bit and do one or two gigs a month at most. We set our price at $100 per member plus a bar and food tab. None of us are heavy drinkers so the tab never hits $100. It’s a small town so travel time is usually 15 minutes. Most of our gigs are 15 to 25 songs tops, sometimes split into two sets but usually just one. We are all 50+ in age and we will never be doing this for a living. We are in it for the music and the audience’s enjoyment. I have friends who play for a living. They are all single acts who also take gigs with bands once in a while. They all travel up to a couple of hours for gigs. It would be very tough in our market for a band to make a living. There are a couple of touring bands here but they rarely play locally and they all have other jobs when not touring. There are also a few open mic/jams hosted by some of the single acts. Music at this level is a very hard way to make a living.


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## MFW777 (Aug 3, 2017)

Rick31797 said:


> I don’t expect any profit


Great question - here’s a more “holistic” outlook to consider.

IMHO “Profit” would be a misnomer that applies to 99% of all musicians that gig in a neighbourhood bar, wedding, party or wherever. I certainly am not being condescending here, but I would say it’s more like “take home” after expenses for the gig. If one were to tally up all of the costs that a musician (guitar player as an example) incurs from day one up to the gig - guitars, amps, lessons, books, strings, picks, cables, pedals, records, CD’s, streaming, rehearsals, travel and countless hours of practice and woodshedding, for most no one will even come close after a lifetime of gigs to break even when all is said and done.

I think the answer lies in what one is willing to accept for their time, effort and expense. If one plays to earn a living, then it’s scale. I bet most in that category though cannot live on that money alone and supplement income from other sources - the proverbial “day job”. For the rest, it boils down to an offer, some negotiation (if permissible) and then accept and go play or decline.

Gig are a labor of love and sustains our passion as guitarists and musicians. In the end, for most, it’s about playing and sharing the music and not so much about the money. It’s up to each of us individually and as bands what the number is or should be.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Keep in mind the bar owner looks to pay you out of extra profits he can make by having you play there. How many extra people will show up, how much extra beer/food will be consumed, what's his profit on that extra beer/food? Most places don't have that much to give.

If you're a well known band with a following, consider charging a cover at the door.

The younger guys never experienced the heyday of bar bands in the late 60's/ early 70's. I lived in Edmonton then, I think there were maybe 6 or 7 giant bars there, they held 500/800 maybe 1000 people. Everybody drank their faces off, and I guess drove home drunk. There were quite a few killer local bands that would draw a crowd, so the bars had to pay accordingly. Those days will never be back, bad for the bands, but good when you consider the drunk driving.

My band is older guys, 3 of us are retired, 2 have good day jobs. We mainly play gigs at our local community, for free. We have fun, get good crowds, the community makes some money. If we're offered a different gig we usually turn it down, the money generally isn't worth our time.


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## Permanent Waves (Jun 2, 2020)

MFW777 said:


> Gig are a labor of love and sustains our passion as guitarists and musicians. In the end, for most, it’s about playing and sharing the music and not so much about the money. It’s up to each of us individually and as bands what the number is or should be.


I've had many conversations with musicians on this subject, a few of which degenerated into arguments . People tend to be sensitive on the valuation of their talents and efforts. At every gig, I bring $10K worth of gear, 40 years of experience and thousands of hours worth of practice. You can't put a price on that, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't try. I'm always amazed at the perception from many organizers or establishments who think that since it is a passion, I should do it for free. Music seems to be one of the few spheres of activity where this expectation exists (photography is another). My response to that is always the same - "Sure. I'll play for free. I just need $200 per musician plus expenses to move the gear." If the coat check girl is getting paid, so am I. 

Edit - of course this only applies to gigs that generate revenue for someone. I'm only advocating for fair distribution. I've done fundraisers and parties and never expected a dime.


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

Expectations flow all directions. 

Not all jobs compare but maybe renovations contractors would be a starting point. If a person hires a reno contractor to pull permits, strip off a roof, repair damage, remove an old chimney, supply materials, have them delivered, shingle the roof, clean up the site, sort and dispose of all the trash, all with competent professional employees who are getting paid and have their source deductions in order while wearing PPC with fall protection so that when your neighbour calls in a safety inspection that everything's tickety-boo when the inspector shows up and all done in a timely and effecient way with warranty coverage. That's very expensive. Also worthwhile. The job is called 're-roof house' but it goes far beyond that. The contractor knows it and so does the customer. 

That same contractor may occasionally show up on a community goodwill project to put vinyl siding on the storage shed that the food bank is using out behind the old Presbyterian church. Pace is slow, expectations lower, he's not coordinating or supplying or supervising or pulling permits and if it all goes sideways he might just get in his truck and go home rather than stay to sort it out. That's free with a Pepsi and a burger afterwards and the happy vibe of doing a good deed. And you get what you pay for. 

Same guy. Same skill set. Different expectations at the event. 

I think music event managers have come to expect community goodwill rates for professional ability which is a problem. As music events switch over from being mostly bars for profit to being mostly church and charity related in many communities that also contributes to the problem 'cuz there's confusion about what can/should motivate the involvement. However it's also true that not all musicians have the time, headspace, and level of coordination to pull off all the project management of a full supply-and-install gig even if they are fantastic players when it comes to the music itself. 

j


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Anyone read that well written dissertation about bars hiring bands on the basis of how many people they bring vs being a venue known for great entertainment?

I'll look for in and post it unless someone beats me to it.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Other than bars, what about corporate gigs, weddings, big parties that are willing to pay, how do you guys figure out what to charge? Or whether to accept what they offer?


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## danreid2727 (5 mo ago)




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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm sorry if my previous post seems like a bitter old guy shaking his fist at the clouds.

Playing to an appreciative crowd, having practised and dialed in the music, after years of learning to play......remains among the most treasured memories I have.


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## Permanent Waves (Jun 2, 2020)

player99 said:


> Anyone read that well written dissertation about bars hiring bands on the basis of how many people they bring vs being a venue known for great entertainment?


I've been looking for that blog post and can't find it - it was brilliant and pretty much went viral at the time. The author was making the point about venues that used to pay good money for great bands and used to attract a solid customer base, only to replace them with cheaper bands made up of part-time amateurs that didn't sound good and only brought in their friends for their own gigs, therefore alienating the customer base that had grown to expect quality acts. 



Milkman said:


> I'm sorry if my previous post seems like a bitter old guy shaking his fist at the clouds.
> Playing to an appreciative crowd, having practised and dialed in the music, after years of learning to play......remains among the most treasured memories I have.


I think a lot of us old-timers (and I am not much of an old timer since I only started playing live in the late 80's) can't help but feel a little bitter these days . I do realize there's been a steady decline in the live music scene and there are many factors behind that, some of which are beyond the control of bands or venues. I try to adapt to this new reality and understand that the money is declining, but at the same time want to play in an environment that is fair. I never bought into the pay-to-play schemes, and exposure don't pay for sticks and strings.



dwagar said:


> Other than bars, what about corporate gigs, weddings, big parties that are willing to pay, how do you guys figure out what to charge? Or whether to accept what they offer?


I still think these days, minimum $100 per person after expenses but closer to $150 with inflation . It really depends on how much money the venue is making, and that varies with turnout. Door gigs can be pretty lucrative if the band keeps it all and the fee is set at $10 minimum. With door gigs, both the band and venue has skin in the game to get a good turnout. A well-established venue with regular quality acts can easily bring in 100 through the door, that's a grand for the band(s). I tend to be weary of venues that keep a portion of the door or charge for sound.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Playing to an appreciative crowd, having practised and dialed in the music, after years of learning to play......remains among the most treasured memories I have.


That's exactly it. Pre covid I was playing in a band doing mostly original stuff and a few covers. 5 people in the band and we were doing gigs for duo money most of the time. None of us cared. In days past I would've felt taken advantage of but playing music with people you enjoy in front of a happy audience is its own reward. 
I have no clue what the business model looks like for musicians these days. I do work for a few full time musicians- some touring pros and songwriters- and honestly don't know how they keep going sometimes. God bless em though.


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## JGFSavage (Nov 23, 2021)

hfisher3380 said:


> Agree. Once you start playing in bars etc all the bar owners care about is profit. One place we have played a few times has moved towards karaoke - and I was told “it’s doing GREAT”. Of course, karaoke costs them next to nothing and they still get a good crowd out. Another place, when I touched base with them a few weeks later to see what they thought…well I was told “I haven’t added up the numbers yet”. Truly all they care about is those numbers.
> 
> I get it, they’re running a business. All they really care about is profit. They don’t care how good the band is, they only care about how much booze they sell.
> 
> In THAT world…bands are gonna be hard done by in the gigging circuit.


Thats why the Live Music scene, in S Ontario at least, is so pathetic. in the 70's & 80's, there were still some Bar/Restaurant owners with Character. Today, it's just money, money, money. There is no Soul. 
Don't they realize that this is the "Entertainment" business? Entertaining comes via the Soul.
I was at a Bar in the North end of the GTA. The place was just bought up by new owners. Anyways, they had a Band that held up instruments, but hardly played. Most of the music was Playback. And to crown it all, the Players had a ton of makeup on. Not like Cool, or freaky makeup, but like Wax dolls. 
That was my last drink there.


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## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

Yeah the character is gone now. In so many ways.


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## JGFSavage (Nov 23, 2021)

Sketchy Jeff said:


> Expectations flow all directions.
> 
> Not all jobs compare but maybe renovations contractors would be a starting point. If a person hires a reno contractor to pull permits, strip off a roof, repair damage, remove an old chimney, supply materials, have them delivered, shingle the roof, clean up the site, sort and dispose of all the trash, all with competent professional employees who are getting paid and have their source deductions in order while wearing PPC with fall protection so that when your neighbour calls in a safety inspection that everything's tickety-boo when the inspector shows up and all done in a timely and effecient way with warranty coverage. That's very expensive. Also worthwhile. The job is called 're-roof house' but it goes far beyond that. The contractor knows it and so does the customer.
> 
> ...


It's a good thing, to let the Talent dictate it's price.
Eg. I was in New Orleans, and every bar had good music, Why? because the Talent pool was so large and one had to perform, or else.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Budda said:


> Covers Im guessing? find the last band that played there and ask what they got paid. Ask the venue what they expect to pay.
> 
> I can firmly say original music is gonna get you paid less lol.


Yeah I was like $100 each! WOW!


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