# UFC Results



## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Who here saw the card this weekend? I only caught the main event, nice to see the jab finally be implemented in mma... really took Koscheck off his game.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I watched it. Pretty good card. 

GSP has a dozen tools to take Koscheck of his game lol. He could have likely beaten him anyway he chose. But that constant jab barrage, resulting in a broken orbital bone for Koshceck, was pretty impressive to watch. GSP is so far beyond anyone in that weight division. The only person he hasn't fought is Jake Shields, and he will quite likely lay the same beating on him.

The K-1 was also this past weekend though, which I wait all year for. It was great.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

Soooooo many people want to break Koscheck's face, and GSP did! LOL

Didn't see (I'm too broke), but I was online to see the results.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

torndownunit said:


> I watched it. Pretty good card.
> 
> GSP has a dozen tools to take Koscheck of his game lol. He could have likely beaten him anyway he chose. But that constant jab barrage, resulting in a broken orbital bone for Koshceck, was pretty impressive to watch. GSP is so far beyond anyone in that weight division. The only person he hasn't fought is Jake Shields, and he will quite likely lay the same beating on him.
> 
> The K-1 was also this past weekend though, which I wait all year for. It was great.


I'm not sure if I saw him neutralize anybody like that since the second Matt Serra fight... I would wince everytime Serra was kneed in the ribs haha. I didn't get to see K-1 though, I heard Overeem won it and with him fighting Fedor soon should make for a good fight. Fedor may be washed up in comparison to his Pride days but he's still dangerous, quite possibly the heaviest hands in the Heavyweight devision.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

mrmatt1972 said:


> Soooooo many people want to break Koscheck's face, and GSP did! LOL
> 
> Didn't see (I'm too broke), but I was online to see the results.


I don't have cable TV. If friends throw in on an event at their place I go. If not there are plenty of ways to watch online. We'll just say the UFC fight against piracy won't ever totally win. 

I wish UFC would charge a reasonable amount for their streams. The quality of them is not fantastic, and they cut out. But they charge the same price as the TV PPV! If they charged a reasonable price, and had a better quality stream I'd pay for it.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Morkolo said:


> I'm not sure if I saw him neutralize anybody like that since the second Matt Serra fight... I would wince everytime Serra was kneed in the ribs haha. I didn't get to see K-1 though, I heard Overeem won it and with him fighting Fedor soon should make for a good fight. Fedor may be washed up in comparison to his Pride days but he's still dangerous, quite possibly the heaviest hands in the Heavyweight devision.


I don't know if it's as much a case of him being washed up as it is lack of activity. He's fought once in last 2 years. He was in contract negotiations before Strikeforce which resulted in a deal that was only a few fights, and is back in negotiations again now. I think he's still got a lot to offer and could beat most heavyweights out there.

The other thing is, Werdum (who he lost to) is a good fighter. I actually called him to win. If Fedor fought him again with a different game plan, he would likely destroy him. But I knew he had a chance. He was still developing when he was in UFC and he left over a contract dispute, he wasn't fired. The guy is probably the best BJJ heavyweight in the world though, and Fedor played right into that.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

torndownunit said:


> I don't have cable TV. If friends throw in on an event at their place I go. If not there are plenty of ways to watch online. We'll just say the UFC fight against piracy won't ever totally win.
> 
> I wish UFC would charge a reasonable amount for their streams. The quality of them is not fantastic, and they cut out. But they charge the same price as the TV PPV! If they charged a reasonable price, and had a better quality stream I'd pay for it.


Bell's my provider here and I have to agree, unless you have a bunch of guys throwing in on the fights it's just not worth the money. I found you got a lot more for your money back when the UFC card was going up against Pride card for ppv buys on the same night. Pride was always putting on better cards, UFC diehards would never admit to it but when you watched Pride it wasn't just an exciting fight when Fedor or Wanderlai were on, it was 3 hours of the fastest beer and bathroom breaks I've seen since the Stanley Cup Finals haha.



torndownunit said:


> I don't know if it's as much a case of him being washed up as it is lack of activity. He's fought once in last 2 years. He was in contract negotiations before Strikeforce which resulted in a deal that was only a few fights, and is back in negotiations again now. I think he's still got a lot to offer and could beat most heavyweights out there.
> 
> The other thing is, Werdum (who he lost to) is a good fighter. I actually called him to win. If Fedor fought him again with a different game plan, he would likely destroy him. But I knew he had a chance. He was still developing when he was in UFC and he left over a contract dispute, he wasn't fired. The guy is probably the best BJJ heavyweight in the world though, and Fedor played right into that.


Maybe I shouldn't say washed up, but like you said he certainly isn't as active as he was in his Pride days. Although I do believe he's facing basically the same caliber of opponents as he would in the UFC, how many guys like Brett Rogers have we seen walk through the UFC and be toted as the next big thing only to be fresh meat for a champion who actually knew what he was doing. I know Werdum is good, that's probably the reason the UFC didn't want him to stick around. He probably made the best move of his career by hauling out because if you look at other guys who had contract disputes (Ortiz and Vera) they usually get thrown into fights that never favor them stylistically. As for Fedor playing into Werdum's BJJ, don't forget he did the same thing with Nogeria and won. I just hope he doesn't go into the UFC because then Dana White and his gang will be bent on tearing him down the same way they did with Wanderlai. Don't get me wrong, I love the UFC... I just think there's too many politics involved sometimes, almost as bad as boxing now.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Overeem's fighting Fedor? I thought Fedor was still ducking him???

As for GSP, he might as well retire now. No one else in that division is going to be able to touch him. I don't believe in Jake Shields. Sure, he's got good BJJ and a decent chin, but GSP's toolbox is full of stuff that can eliminate people like that. BJ Penn also has good BJJ and a decent chin, but he didn't put up much of a fight against GSP.

I've been hearing that GSP will move to middleweight, but I don't know how good an idea that is. I don't think he's big enough for middleweight, really. He's only 5'10", so even if he bulks up, he'll just end up a stocky guy fighting others who are well over 6 feet tall. With his build, Welterweight is really the perfect weight class for him and he's cleared that out pretty good.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> Overeem's fighting Fedor? I thought Fedor was still ducking him???
> 
> As for GSP, he might as well retire now. No one else in that division is going to be able to touch him. I don't believe in Jake Shields. Sure, he's got good BJJ and a decent chin, but GSP's toolbox is full of stuff that can eliminate people like that. BJ Penn also has good BJJ and a decent chin, but he didn't put up much of a fight against GSP.
> 
> I've been hearing that GSP will move to middleweight, but I don't know how good an idea that is. I don't think he's big enough for middleweight, really. He's only 5'10", so even if he bulks up, he'll just end up a stocky guy fighting others who are well over 6 feet tall. With his build, Welterweight is really the perfect weight class for him and he's cleared that out pretty good.


The funny part is people on MMA forums knock him for not going up a weight class. As you said though, he's fighting as his natural weight class. Why should he have to do anything? It's up the the UFC to find competition for him.

Jake Shields has potential to beat anyone if he gets them to the ground. But, there are a lot of people he wasn't able to finish off that weren't top 10 in either division he's faught in. And the other bigger issue, he'd have to get GSP on the ground. Sheilds has horrible standup, worse than Koschecks. GSP could just use the same tactics he already used. Shield is a great fighter, but way too one dimensional. I just don't think he'll have much more to offer.

RE Price and UFC and the golden days, that is a big reason I really wish Strikeforce would do well. UFC needs the competition. Strikeforce has some major issues though. Their commentating is horrific, and the match making is brutal. EG why is Fedor fighting Overeem when Werdum just beat him? Werdum should get the title shot. The last Strikeforce PPV had matches where guys weren't even both in the same weightclasses. Another issue is that while their heavyweight division is pretty stacked, all there other divisions are thin which is why they have to make some of these odd matches. I do like the way the Strikeforce events chug along with little filler, and good production values though.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

hollowbody said:


> Overeem's fighting Fedor? I thought Fedor was still ducking him???
> 
> As for GSP, he might as well retire now. No one else in that division is going to be able to touch him. I don't believe in Jake Shields. Sure, he's got good BJJ and a decent chin, but GSP's toolbox is full of stuff that can eliminate people like that. BJ Penn also has good BJJ and a decent chin, but he didn't put up much of a fight against GSP.
> 
> I've been hearing that GSP will move to middleweight, but I don't know how good an idea that is. I don't think he's big enough for middleweight, really. He's only 5'10", so even if he bulks up, he'll just end up a stocky guy fighting others who are well over 6 feet tall. With his build, Welterweight is really the perfect weight class for him and he's cleared that out pretty good.


I may be wrong but I don't Fedor ducks anybody. I think his management, like many others in the fight game are hard to deal with. It's aparent everywhere, look at Wanderlai Silva vs. Chuck Liddell. That could have been one of the best fights in MMA history and yet both promotions were afraid of their champion losing to a rivals champion. The same is going on with Mayweather and Pacquaio right now in the boxing scene and the sport is suffering for it.



torndownunit said:


> The funny part is people on MMA forums knock him for not going up a weight class. As you said though, he's fighting as his natural weight class. Why should he have to do anything? It's up the the UFC to find competition for him.
> 
> Jake Shields has potential to beat anyone if he gets them to the ground. But, there are a lot of people he wasn't able to finish off that weren't top 10 in either division he's faught in. And the other bigger issue, he'd have to get GSP on the ground. Sheilds has horrible standup, worse than Koschecks. GSP could just use the same tactics he already used. Shield is a great fighter, but way too one dimensional. I just don't think he'll have much more to offer.
> 
> RE Price and UFC and the golden days, that is a big reason I really wish Strikeforce would do well. UFC needs the competition. Strikeforce has some major issues though. Their commentating is horrific, and the match making is brutal. EG why is Fedor fighting Overeem when Werdum just beat him? Werdum should get the title shot. The last Strikeforce PPV had matches where guys weren't even both in the same weightclasses. Another issue is that while their heavyweight division is pretty stacked, all there other divisions are thin which is why they have to make some of these odd matches. I do like the way the Strikeforce events chug along with little filler, and good production values though.


I'll never understand people making fun of fighters on the forums, if GSP keeps fighting at welterweight they'll say he was afraid to move up. If he moves up and wins he's a god, maybe, if he moves up and loses they react like his reign was a farce to begin with. Personally I believe the Jake Shields match will be no contest though, GSP is so well rounded on all fronts. Although it is just as possible for an upset as well, remember what happened to BJ Penn. He was dominating everyone and then loses to Frankie Edgar twice.

I have to agree with you about Strikeforce too, they need to organize a lot better before they become a real opponent to the UFC. There will always be the UFC fanboys who believe anything outside of the organization isn't worth the time of day. I still curse the day Barnett tested positive, Affliction could have been so much more. I watched those two PPV's like a 5 year old at Christmas time, they would have been as big as UFC if not bigger by now.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I think this is one of the first MMA discussions I have had on this forum. It may be the only one actually.

Do any of you guys train at all? I took submission grappling for all of last year until I had to take a forced break due to a rib injury.  I don't take it because I am a meathead, it's just fantastic exercise and really interesting lol. Even learning the basics sure makes you appreciate what's going on in MMA more too. Unfortunately there are always people who don't feel MMA is a sport, but try training in it and you will feel differently. And those guys pretty much train full time at that level.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

torndownunit said:


> I think this is one of the first MMA discussions I have had on this forum. It may be the only one actually.
> 
> Do any of you guys train at all? I took submission grappling for all of last year until I had to take a forced break due to a rib injury. I don't take it because I am a meathead, it's just fantastic exercise and really interesting lol. Even learning the basics sure makes you appreciate what's going on in MMA more too. Unfortunately there are always people who don't feel MMA is a sport, but try training in it and you will feel differently. And those guys pretty much train full time at that level.


I used to wrestle, not quite amateur but in the back yards.. nothing like that Jerry Springer stuff you see people get on with or that WWF stuff. It would keep you in excellent shape, and with the right crowd of guys nobody ever got hurt. Sure a bruise here or there but like I said nothing serious, we would keep it under control. It was basically amateur without the refs, sanctioning, coaches, technique... nobody trying to hurt each other, just testing each others strength. Sure beat riding bicycle or smoking cigarettes.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> I think this is one of the first MMA discussions I have had on this forum. It may be the only one actually.
> 
> Do any of you guys train at all? I took submission grappling for all of last year until I had to take a forced break due to a rib injury. I don't take it because I am a meathead, it's just fantastic exercise and really interesting lol. Even learning the basics sure makes you appreciate what's going on in MMA more too. Unfortunately there are always people who don't feel MMA is a sport, but try training in it and you will feel differently. And those guys pretty much train full time at that level.


I did Shotokan Karate for a long time when I was younger and ended up going pretty far with that in the 12 years I was studying it. I did Muay Thai on and off for a number of years, mostly depending on how much cash I had handy and whether I wanted to kick stuff or drink stuff more at the time. I also dabbled in judo with a friend who was studying it, but it was on a casual basis (I never joined a dojo). 

I'd like to do some BJJ because it looks pretty interesting from a mental aspect, but more than anything, I'd like to get back into muay thai.



Morkolo said:


> I may be wrong but I don't Fedor ducks anybody. I think his management, like many others in the fight game are hard to deal with. It's aparent everywhere, look at Wanderlai Silva vs. Chuck Liddell. That could have been one of the best fights in MMA history and yet both promotions were afraid of their champion losing to a rivals champion. The same is going on with Mayweather and Pacquaio right now in the boxing scene and the sport is suffering for it.
> 
> I'll never understand people making fun of fighters on the forums, if GSP keeps fighting at welterweight they'll say he was afraid to move up. If he moves up and wins he's a god, maybe, if he moves up and loses they react like his reign was a farce to begin with. Personally I believe the Jake Shields match will be no contest though, GSP is so well rounded on all fronts. Although it is just as possible for an upset as well, remember what happened to BJ Penn. He was dominating everyone and then loses to Frankie Edgar twice.
> 
> I have to agree with you about Strikeforce too, they need to organize a lot better before they become a real opponent to the UFC. There will always be the UFC fanboys who believe anything outside of the organization isn't worth the time of day. I still curse the day Barnett tested positive, Affliction could have been so much more. I watched those two PPV's like a 5 year old at Christmas time, they would have been as big as UFC if not bigger by now.


Whether it's Fedor's management or Fedor himself, the bottom line is that it hasn't happened yet and both fighters (Fedor specifically) are getting older. Even if it happens now, it won't be the same as it would have been 2 years ago. It's a shame.

As for GSP, there's a few people that he can pretty much walk through in the 185, but I can't really see him competing for a belt. Silva would be a really tough fight, and Sonnen and Belfort wouldn't be a walk in the part either. Even guys like Michael Bisping, Chris Leben or Demian Maia (to a lesser extent) could give GSP a run for his money. There's no real point to him moving up unless he thinks he can contend for the belt and I don't think that's realistic against an all-rounder like Silva, a great wrestler with a huge gas tank like Sonnen or an aggressive striker like Belfort. Then again, GSP is still young and has a lot of time to learn and grow in, so you never know.

As for Shields, I can't see GSP even really breaking a sweat against him. Shields has no stand-up, GSP has excellent take-down defense and has shown that he can get right back up if taken down pretty easily.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

hollowbody said:


> I did Shotokan Karate for a long time when I was younger and ended up going pretty far with that in the 12 years I was studying it. I did Muay Thai on and off for a number of years, mostly depending on how much cash I had handy and whether I wanted to kick stuff or drink stuff more at the time. I also dabbled in judo with a friend who was studying it, but it was on a casual basis (I never joined a dojo).
> 
> I'd like to do some BJJ because it looks pretty interesting from a mental aspect, but more than anything, I'd like to get back into muay thai.
> 
> ...


I've been a GSP fan since he first came to the UFC and watched the UFC allow him to grow and develop, they need to start doing that again instead of having a guy in the organization 2 fights and throwing him up against the champion. I'd never believe that I would be saying this now 5 years ago but every devision in UFC now is so shallow. Light heavyweight used to be stacked, now it's a bunch of guys that are either a) washed up or b) glass jawed.

They really need to start putting on cards that are worth buying again though... I mean Phil Baroni is on the next one. Edgar and Maynard as the main event, they need to start getting the big guys to start fighting more than once every 9 months.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Just out of curiosity here now, who do you guys think would win between Fedor and Brock Lesnar? A lot of people think Brock would win.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Morkolo said:


> I've been a GSP fan since he first came to the UFC and watched the UFC allow him to grow and develop, they need to start doing that again instead of having a guy in the organization 2 fights and throwing him up against the champion. I'd never believe that I would be saying this now 5 years ago but every devision in UFC now is so shallow. Light heavyweight used to be stacked, now it's a bunch of guys that are either a) washed up or b) glass jawed.
> 
> They really need to start putting on cards that are worth buying again though... I mean Phil Baroni is on the next one. Edgar and Maynard as the main event, they need to start getting the big guys to start fighting more than once every 9 months.



The one problem is there has been a ridiculous amount of injuries. The last 5-6 PPV cards looked nothing like the cards they originally planned. It seemed most of their marquee stars were out of comission at the same time. 

As for Lesnar/Fedor, I think any good heavyweight striker with takedown defense could beat Lesnar at this point. The guy is clearly scared of getting hit. He was lucky as hell that Carwin gassed, and it caught up with him when Cain used the same game plan. He turns away from punches instead of evading them or blocking them which is a horrible practice. Even a guy his size can't get away with that.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> The one problem is there has been a ridiculous amount of injuries. The last 5-6 PPV cards looked nothing like the cards they originally planned. It seemed most of their marquee stars were out of comission at the same time.
> 
> As for Lesnar/Fedor, I think any good heavyweight striker with takedown defense could beat Lesnar at this point. The guy is clearly scared of getting hit. He was lucky as hell that Carwin gassed, and it caught up with him when Cain used the same game plan. He turns away from punches instead of evading them or blocking them which is a horrible practice. Even a guy his size can't get away with that.


Agreed on both counts.

Not surprising that there's so many injuries, especially considering how hard some guys go in training camp. Look how long the Carwin/Lesnar buildup was til it finally happened. There's also a lot of legal issues with fighters moving between organizations and being signed to one place or another.

As for Brock, I'm sure in 3 or 4 years he can be a serious contender for another run at the belt, but he has a LOT to learn. You can't just wrestle. Koscheck learned that and developed a decent stand-up game and it still didn't help against a truly elite MMA fighter. Brock will be able to beat the also-rans in the heavyweight division, but a well-rounded, tough fighter with power will beat him every day and twice on Sundays. Fedor is exactly that. He may be a lot smaller than Brock, but I'm sure he could handle Brock pretty easily. Hell, if Couture were a bit younger, I think Couture could take Brock pretty easily too.

And yeah, there really aren't any superstars out there that weren't already superstars a few years ago. Now that Matt Hughes, Rich Franklin and Chuck Liddell have become "legends" (ie. not really contenders anymore), there's a huge gap left. GSP has filled that in the welterweight, but Silva keeps annoying people with his showboating and the light heavies have had more champions in the last couple years than I've had underwear. 

I completely disagree with Jake Shields walking into the UFC, putting on a COMPLETELY lackluster performance, barely winning a decision and then getting a title shot. Really Dana? Joe Silva? This is how it's going to work? Sure, maybe it was in the cards during initial negotiations, but I would have pulled that offer off the table SO fast after Shields vs. Kampmann. You have to earn your shot, or else the belt's not worth squat.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

torndownunit said:


> The one problem is there has been a ridiculous amount of injuries. The last 5-6 PPV cards looked nothing like the cards they originally planned. It seemed most of their marquee stars were out of comission at the same time.
> 
> As for Lesnar/Fedor, I think any good heavyweight striker with takedown defense could beat Lesnar at this point. The guy is clearly scared of getting hit. He was lucky as hell that Carwin gassed, and it caught up with him when Cain used the same game plan. He turns away from punches instead of evading them or blocking them which is a horrible practice. Even a guy his size can't get away with that.


Yeah injuries definitely are a big deal, it seems like every month you hear about someone going in for reconstructive surgery. As for Carwin gassing, I might be way off but I believe with any other ref in MMA he would have had the belt around his waist by that time. Another thing I've noticed after several of Brock's fights is that when he gets hit his face and chest all flush red. It's almost like a sign for the other guy to jump. Most of his problem I think is that he doesn't have any respect for anyone else's abilities. And I can understand why too because he basically blew through everybody until he was hit by Carwin. But then again who did he fight? Frank Mir who's by all means washed up, Randy Couture who was probably outweighed by about 80lbs come fight time. I mean that's not even real competition, so many people dissed Randy Couture after that fight saying that was it for him. But when someone else moves up to any other weight class and gets beat like that it's no big deal, and yes I know Couture was a Heavyweight before he was at Light Heavyweight.



hollowbody said:


> Agreed on both counts.
> 
> Not surprising that there's so many injuries, especially considering how hard some guys go in training camp. Look how long the Carwin/Lesnar buildup was til it finally happened. There's also a lot of legal issues with fighters moving between organizations and being signed to one place or another.
> 
> ...


I think most of the reason there's so many injuries today is because of the crackdown on steroids, I mean look at Rich Franklin when he would come in for a fight. He would look high as a kite. They all do it, as far as I'm concerned I'd rather see them all come in raging on the roids (Pride) than have half that do and half that don't.

Hopefully Brock doesn't get too shook up over the past two fights, some guys can get over loosing or getting put to the ropes in embarrassing fashion. And then some guys can't, hopefully Brock does because he does have the talent.. somebody just needs to teach him how to channel all that power into a punch or a kick and he would be unstoppable.

Couldn't agree with you more about the legends, Silva could be so much more. He can go in there and bang and knock guys out easily or he can take it to the ground and do good there too. But he won't and his fights ending boring the hell out of even the most diehard fight fans.

As for Jake Shields getting a title shot, it's a joke in my eyes. Just another name that we all know is going to be added to GSP's resume.

Who do you guys think will win the Anderson Silva vs. Vitor Belfort fight?


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Morkolo said:


> Who do you guys think will win the Anderson Silva vs. Vitor Belfort fight?


I think Belfort is the first person to face Silva with a legitimate chance of winning. It'll have to be a quick one, though, because I don't see Belfort lasting 5 rounds and his record ain't great when it comes to decisions. Should be interesting, because Silva might think that he has to put Belfort away quickly himself because Belfort's power makes him a concern no matter what round it is. Hopefully Silva won't shadowbox and backpedal for 5 rounds. That was boring when I saw David L'Oiseau do it against Rich Franklin years ago and I definitely don't want to see it now.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Regarding injuries, the main problem is training I think as hollowbody pointed out. I know from training in submission grappling that you get injured like crazy. It's not a question of 'if' you get hurt, it's 'when'. These guys are doing that every day, combined with a bunch of other aspects of their training where the risk injury. Plus with all the close quarters training, they are always risking infections like staph (which fights get postponed on account of all the time). A lot of these guys only take steroids because of the constant state on injury recovery.

One point regarding Jake Shields first UFC fight, he obviously had a really difficult weight cut. It can happen to anyone. While I do think he's in for a serious wakeup call fighting UFC welterweights, I wouldn't judge him on that last performance.

Last but not least, Belfort vs. Silva. I know he's a talented fighter, but the guy has a history of not stepping up in big fights. I think people are falling for the UFC hype machine when it comes to this fight. I think Silva will destroy him. But, it could be a good fight for sure. The thing to remember is that while Silva was acting like an idiot his last few fights, his opponents other than Sonnen, were doing absolutely nothing to engage him. His reaction to them not engaging him was lame, but it's an incredibly frustrating situation for him or any fighter. EG can you imagine what kind of fight it would have been if Kos ran from GSP the whole fight? Belfort likely will come after him. And I think you will see the same thing happen that happened to Franklin and Leben (the last guys to really go after him striking).

One other point with Silva, I also tend to think 'something was up' with Silva during the Sonnen fight and that he had a bad fight. I don't think he was making excuses when he was talking about rib injuries, and that he was having problems performing. I think when there's a rematch, it will be a different fight.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

torndownunit said:


> Regarding injuries, the main problem is training I think as hollowbody pointed out. I know from training in submission grappling that you get injured like crazy. It's not a question of 'if' you get hurt, it's 'when'. These guys are doing that every day, combined with a bunch of other aspects of their training where the risk injury. Plus with all the close quarters training, they are always risking infections like staph (which fights get postponed on account of all the time). A lot of these guys only take steroids because of the constant state on injury recovery.
> 
> One point regarding Jake Shields first UFC fight, he obviously had a really difficult weight cut. It can happen to anyone. While I do think he's in for a serious wakeup call fighting UFC welterweights, I wouldn't judge him on that last performance.
> 
> ...


I understand your point about Silva but after paying for his past few PPV's and then he doesn't even engage for the whole five rounds it gets a bit dissapointing. Here's hoping he comes back with a vengeance thinking he has something to prove because after that last fight with Sonnen he does whether he was injured or not. I'm all for the countersriker style so long as it doesn't end up like what Machida's been doing the past few fights. He was brilliant until he fought Shogun, but I guess there's always someone out there with your number. Not sure if I'm right but I believe Shogun fights Rashad Evans when he gets back, how come I'll never know. Rashad is going to be picked apart much like his last few fights before the Rampage one, and that's no big deal either. Rampage just came back from a movie out of shape in comparison to Evans which makes a big difference.

I noticed the other day as well that Penn and Fitch will be fighting soon, I hope Penn is prepared for this next one. I believe BJ's going to have his hands more than full with this fight because I believe Fitch is the only real contender left at welterweight. His heavy hands and takedown defense don't seem to be doing the trick as much anymore, even though he knocked out Hughes. But that was more of a gift than anything, Hughes has been washed up for a few years now. Almost sad to see him having a hard time with his fights now. Especially when I remember how dominant he was in his day.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Morkolo said:


> I understand your point about Silva but after paying for his past few PPV's and then he doesn't even engage for the whole five rounds it gets a bit dissapointing. Here's hoping he comes back with a vengeance thinking he has something to prove because after that last fight with Sonnen he does whether he was injured or not. I'm all for the countersriker style so long as it doesn't end up like what Machida's been doing the past few fights. He was brilliant until he fought Shogun, but I guess there's always someone out there with your number. Not sure if I'm right but I believe Shogun fights Rashad Evans when he gets back, how come I'll never know. Rashad is going to be picked apart much like his last few fights before the Rampage one, and that's no big deal either. Rampage just came back from a movie out of shape in comparison to Evans which makes a big difference.
> 
> I noticed the other day as well that Penn and Fitch will be fighting soon, I hope Penn is prepared for this next one. I believe BJ's going to have his hands more than full with this fight because I believe Fitch is the only real contender left at welterweight. His heavy hands and takedown defense don't seem to be doing the trick as much anymore, even though he knocked out Hughes. But that was more of a gift than anything, Hughes has been washed up for a few years now. Almost sad to see him having a hard time with his fights now. Especially when I remember how dominant he was in his day.


I definitely am not supporting how Silva chose to react in the fights. But I put equal blame on the opponents for those being 'bad fights'. EG the Maia fight is a perfect example. Maia did practically nothing to engage him. Maia's only real game is his BJJ, so it's not like you can expect Silva just just go running into him. When watching it on PPV it was very easy to get mad at Silva. But when watching it again after the fact when you aren't paying for it, you can see Maia was a huge part of the problem as well. Both fighters made that a horrible fight.

The thing I have no patience for is when fighters are clearly losing the fight, but still won't engage their opponent in the last rounds. I clearly put the 'blame' on the person losing in those situations. You can't expect a guy who is clearly winning a fight to get reckless in MMA. But to use the Maia example again, when you have lost the fight already, it's the last round, and you don't engage to try to knock your opponent out or submit him? You are making a 'bad fight'.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> I definitely am not supporting how Silva chose to react in the fights. But I put equal blame on the opponents for those being 'bad fights'. EG the Maia fight is a perfect example. Maia did practically nothing to engage him. Maia's only real game is his BJJ, so it's not like you can expect Silva just just go running into him. When watching it on PPV it was very easy to get mad at Silva. But when watching it again after the fact when you aren't paying for it, you can see Maia was a huge part of the problem as well. Both fighters made that a horrible fight.
> 
> The thing I have no patience for is when fighters are clearly losing the fight, but still won't engage their opponent in the last rounds. I clearly put the 'blame' on the person losing in those situations. You can't expect a guy who is clearly winning a fight to get reckless in MMA. But to use the Maia example again, when you have lost the fight already, it's the last round, and you don't engage to try to knock your opponent out or submit him? You are making a 'bad fight'.


My problem here is that Maia should NEVER have gotten a title shot. And that's more to do with the lack of actual contenders than anything. A one-dimensional fighter like that can never seriously contend for the title, let alone win and defend it. 

I also agree with you about losing fighters. Same goes for KOS who was being told by his corner that he had to open it up from the 3rd round onward and he did very little to take the fight to GSP.

No doubt Silva is a fantastic fighter. I've seen enough from him to see that he's the real deal, but like GSP, he's so far above the rest of the people in the division that when the match-up is a bad one, it turns into a boring fight. Although he has some serious holes in his game, I'd like to see Bisping vs. Silva, I think that would be a pretty good fight.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> My problem here is that Maia should NEVER have gotten a title shot. And that's more to do with the lack of actual contenders than anything. A one-dimensional fighter like that can never seriously contend for the title, let alone win and defend it.
> 
> I also agree with you about losing fighters. Same goes for KOS who was being told by his corner that he had to open it up from the 3rd round onward and he did very little to take the fight to GSP.
> 
> No doubt Silva is a fantastic fighter. I've seen enough from him to see that he's the real deal, but like GSP, he's so far above the rest of the people in the division that when the match-up is a bad one, it turns into a boring fight. Although he has some serious holes in his game, I'd like to see Bisping vs. Silva, I think that would be a pretty good fight.


It's got to be so discouraging to work so hard, and get beat down so badly lol.

I'd like to see Bisping vs. Silva just because I would love to see Bisping get beat down again. The one thing I can't stand is fighters who make excuses, and that is all Bisping does. Watching him get Hendo'd again would be fantastic lol. I think that fight would be another that would resemble the Leben and Franklin fights against Silva. Except that Bisping has less power than Leben and Franklin, and I don't think he has either of their chins.

I'd actually kind of like to see Bisping vs. Leben again at this point. If he got beat by Leben, which I think could happen, it would knock him far down the latter which I would have to see.

I was looking at upcoming cards, and if there are no injuries before UFC 126, it could be a killer card.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Anyone watch WEC last night? The Ben Henderson vs Anthony Pettis fight was awesome. Frankie Edgar or Gray Maynard (that's going to be a boring fight) won't be holding onto that belt very long.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

No doubt in my mind, Silva's an amazing fighter. But Silva's going to have to engage more for me to buy the next one though, even though I completely agree with you on the Maia fight. That had to be the worst match up I'd seen in ages, I mean every fight doesn't have to mean two guys go in and bang for five rounds but they could at least make contact. What must be really frustrating for these guys is when the UFC throws a guy in there against them who has no business whatsoever even being in the cage with them and we've seen it a lot over the years. It definitely takes the edge off of an elite fighter because they will never be tested in the same way that they would with another elite. But when a guy is losing after 3 and 4 rounds much like Koscheck was, they have to swing for the fences. It just makes no sense at all to do anything else when you have heavy enough hands for knock out power. But then again an elite fighter doesn't just break you down physically, they break you don't mentally too. Koscheck was second guessing the whole fight mainly because he wasn't expecting that jab and then when it was too late, couldn't even see it.

Bisping Silva would probably end up being either another boring fight or a one round affair. And I could picture it being short because Bisping thinks he's in the realm of greats, when at best he was almost there and I'm not even sure if that was just a product of the "UFC hype machine". The guy lost to Dan Henderson, a guy that's been out of any real contenders circle for a few years now. I was looking too and 126 looks like it may turn out to be pretty good, here's to hoping that Dana and the UFC move more towards the old style of putting on a lot of good fights again rather than doing what boxing does and have a lot of filler before the main event. By the way whoever missed the Hopkins Pascal fight last night missed a pretty good one. Started slow and ended with the fist flying from the both of them.

I didn't catch any of the WEC card, I guess I'll watch it when this holiday rush calms down. As for Edgar vs Maynard, these guys are good but only a stepping stone for someone else who's hot and comes into the division.

Rumors are that Fedor Emelianenko and Antonio Silva are going to meet during the Jan 29th Strikeforce event. Could turn out to be a good fight.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Did you guys see the rumours for UFC 129 in Toronto? I read it on another forum, and can't find any info it's it's official yet, but the word is so far:

GSP vs. Shields
Cain vs. JDS

http://mmafrenzy.com/16857/st-pierr...vs-dos-santos-possible-for-ufc-131-in-toronto


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

torndownunit said:


> Did you guys see the rumours for UFC 129 in Toronto? I read it on another forum, and can't find any info it's it's official yet, but the word is so far:
> 
> GSP vs. Shields
> Cain vs. JDS
> ...


That would be a great one to see, hopefully we see it happen then maybe GSP could fight Silva this year.


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## Peter (Mar 25, 2008)

Morkolo said:


> That would be a great one to see, hopefully we see it happen then maybe GSP could fight Silva this year.


Also Mark Bocek called out Sotiropolous for 129 which would be a great fight as well if they can make it happen


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

I liked Sotiropolous as soon as I saw him on TUF. He's turned into to quite the fighter at 155. Looking forward to seeing him get his shot.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Stratin2traynor said:


> I liked Sotiropolous as soon as I saw him on TUF. He's turned into to quite the fighter at 155. Looking forward to seeing him get his shot.


agreed. Sotiropolous seems like one of the very legit contenders at that weight class. Although I wonder how long it will take him now that WEC got absorbed. Ben Henderson is still a great fighter and Pettis looks very legit as well. 

I think Sot (got tired of spelling his name out ) will make short work of Bocek. I like Bocek a lot, but what he's good at, George is just plain better at and George is more well-rounded. After that, he will probably fight once more before his shot. Too early to fight the winner of Maynard/Edgar, so maybe Ben Henderson or even BJ Penn for a contender spot? I don't know how/when they're planning on resolving the WEC/UFC championship and consolidating it into one, but I imagine the winner of Maynard/Edgar is going to be in a tight spot against Pettis.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> agreed. Sotiropolous seems like one of the very legit contenders at that weight class. Although I wonder how long it will take him now that WEC got absorbed. Ben Henderson is still a great fighter and Pettis looks very legit as well.
> 
> I think Sot (got tired of spelling his name out ) will make short work of Bocek. I like Bocek a lot, but what he's good at, George is just plain better at and George is more well-rounded. After that, he will probably fight once more before his shot. Too early to fight the winner of Maynard/Edgar, so maybe Ben Henderson or even BJ Penn for a contender spot? I don't know how/when they're planning on resolving the WEC/UFC championship and consolidating it into one, but I imagine the winner of Maynard/Edgar is going to be in a tight spot against Pettis.


Ya this is a bad fight for Sotiropolous. He should clearly win... but if he doesn't, it's not good for him. If he wins, it doesn't really mean much because it's not like Bocek is a 'step up the latter' for him. If anything he's a step down considering Sotiropolous deserves a fight against a legit contender at this point. So it's a lose/lose situation for him (IMO).

I do like Sotiropolous, but he hasn't fought the elite of the division by any means. His last few fights were great to watch, but Lauzon and Stevenson for example, are not really top tier in the division these days. Throwing all the WEC fighters into the mix makes things super interesting as well as you said.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> Ya this is a bad fight for Sotiropolous. He should clearly win... but if he doesn't, it's not good for him. If he wins, it doesn't really mean much because it's not like Bocek is a 'step up the latter' for him. If anything he's a step down considering Sotiropolous deserves a fight against a legit contender at this point. So it's a lose/lose situation for him (IMO).
> 
> I do like Sotiropolous, but he hasn't fought the elite of the division by any means. His last few fights were great to watch, but Lauzon and Stevenson for example, are not really top tier in the division these days. Throwing all the WEC fighters into the mix makes things super interesting as well as you said.


Yeah, I don't think Maynard is necessarily a top-tier fighter, but he has a title shot, so there you have it. Like we were talking about earlier, a lot of the divisions seem to have become watered-down with one or two legit contenders for the belt and an awful lot of also-rans. 

I initially thought TUF was a great idea, but year after year I keep seeing guys on the show who are so-so, and in the case where the whole group is mediocre, the UFC ends up absorbing some crummy fighters who further water-down the pool. I think UFC might be better-served to only have a TUF when there is a legit roster of new fighters, not have one every few months because it's good for the bank account. The long-term legitimacy of the sport is in danger with all these fighters who have no place being in the top pro level. Honestly, some of these guys who show up on the show are so one-dimensional or in such bad shape that on a good day, I'm pretty sure I'd have a shot at getting in the house and I haven't been training seriously in years.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> Yeah, I don't think Maynard is necessarily a top-tier fighter, but he has a title shot, so there you have it. Like we were talking about earlier, a lot of the divisions seem to have become watered-down with one or two legit contenders for the belt and an awful lot of also-rans.
> 
> I initially thought TUF was a great idea, but year after year I keep seeing guys on the show who are so-so, and in the case where the whole group is mediocre, the UFC ends up absorbing some crummy fighters who further water-down the pool. I think UFC might be better-served to only have a TUF when there is a legit roster of new fighters, not have one every few months because it's good for the bank account. The long-term legitimacy of the sport is in danger with all these fighters who have no place being in the top pro level. Honestly, some of these guys who show up on the show are so one-dimensional or in such bad shape that on a good day, I'm pretty sure I'd have a shot at getting in the house and I haven't been training seriously in years.


I generally agree, but one important thing to remember is that any organization needs journeymen. Some of these people Joe Lauzon for example will never contend for a title, but will improve to the point of being a 'gatekeeper' for people climbing the latter. Leben is another great example of that. He will always put on a good show no matter what. That is where Strikeforce is seriously lacking, and why you end up with these crazy mismatched fights all the time. They have no middlemen in their divisions. So you end up with people who aren't even in the same weight class fighting too often.

So I think there is SOME benefit to TUF, I do agree that very few of the fighters will ever progress to even being the type of fighter I mentioned above. But you at least get some fighters for prelim fights etc. So I don't think the show is really that harmful. It's just not overly productive as far as finding talent. At least it gets these fighters into good training camps in most cases so they can try to progress the proper way. In some cases, that has obviously taken them to a high level. TUF has mainly become TV entertainment though overall. 

I gotta say I disagree about Maynard. In the UFC, he is top tier in his division. I don't enjoy watching him, but he has potential to beat almost anyone out there with his style. Just like Jon Fitch. He's basically the Fitch of the lightweight division.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> I generally agree, but one important thing to remember is that any organization needs journeymen. Some of these people Joe Lauzon for example will never contend for a title, but will improve to the point of being a 'gatekeeper' for people climbing the latter. Leben is another great example of that. He will always put on a good show no matter what. That is where Strikeforce is seriously lacking, and why you end up with these crazy mismatched fights all the time. They have no middlemen in their divisions. So you end up with people who aren't even in the same weight class fighting too often.
> 
> So I think there is SOME benefit to TUF, I do agree that very few of the fighters will ever progress to even being the type of fighter I mentioned above. But you at least get some fighters for prelim fights etc. So I don't think the show is really that harmful. It's just not overly productive as far as finding talent. At least it gets these fighters into good training camps in most cases so they can try to progress the proper way. In some cases, that has obviously taken them to a high level. TUF has mainly become TV entertainment though overall.
> 
> I gotta say I disagree about Maynard. In the UFC, he is top tier in his division. I don't enjoy watching him, but he has potential to beat almost anyone out there with his style. Just like Jon Fitch. He's basically the Fitch of the lightweight division.


My problem is that some weight classes have nothing but journeymen beyond 1 or 2 fighters. Maynard IS top tier in the lightweight, but is he a great fighter who deserves to be champion? Not really. Not in my book. Can he beat Diego Sanchez? Probably not unless Sanchez shows up poorly prepared. Can he beat Kenny Florian? Debatable. Can he beat BJ Penn? I don't think so. 

Same goes in the Welterweight division. GSP has no one to fight. Sure Shields is lined up, but I don't think Shields has enough in the toolbox to be a great fighter, he's just a really good grappler. Fitch hasn't shown me anything in his decision victories to make me think he's top-level, and the drop off after that is hilarious.

I got nothing against journeymen, but an entire division of them is just as bad as having too few.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> My problem is that some weight classes have nothing but journeymen beyond 1 or 2 fighters. Maynard IS top tier in the lightweight, but is he a great fighter who deserves to be champion? Not really. Not in my book. Can he beat Diego Sanchez? Probably not unless Sanchez shows up poorly prepared. Can he beat Kenny Florian? Debatable. Can he beat BJ Penn? I don't think so.
> 
> Same goes in the Welterweight division. GSP has no one to fight. Sure Shields is lined up, but I don't think Shields has enough in the toolbox to be a great fighter, he's just a really good grappler. Fitch hasn't shown me anything in his decision victories to make me think he's top-level, and the drop off after that is hilarious.
> 
> I got nothing against journeymen, but an entire division of them is just as bad as having too few.


I personally think Maynard would destroy Sanchez. Just goes to show people's different takes on things lol. Sanchez is good against people he can easily implement his gameplan on. I think Maynard would throw him right off that. Maynard just manhandles people and has ridiculous strength for a lightweight. The bottom line for me is a guy with wrestling like Maynards has the potential to beat anyone. And he's still developing. But... I don't really care lol. I so don't care about Maynard/Edgar.

I have no problem agreeing that the UFC's top tier in lightweight is definitely not the top teir in MMA though. I think they have the same problem at middleweight. They have a deep welterweight division, but a champ who is a level above everyone else lol. Middleweight has a couple of top guys, then a serious drop in level.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> I personally think Maynard would destroy Sanchez. Just goes to show people's different takes on things lol. Sanchez is good against people he can easily implement his gameplan on. I think Maynard would throw him right off that. Maynard just manhandles people and has ridiculous strength for a lightweight. The bottom line for me is a guy with wrestling like Maynards has the potential to beat anyone. And he's still developing. But... I don't really care lol. I so don't care about Maynard/Edgar.
> 
> I have no problem agreeing that the UFC's top tier in lightweight is definitely not the top teir in MMA though. I think they have the same problem at middleweight. They have a deep welterweight division, but a champ who is a level above everyone else lol. Middleweight has a couple of top guys, then a serious drop in level.


Yeah, it would be so much better for the sport if they had one main professional league with the very best fighters, but having some really good talents out in Strikeforce like Overeem, Fedor, Mousasi, Sobral, Nick Diaz, Melendez and Aoki makes it hard to judge who really is the best. At least in boxing, the different sanctioning bodies allow for unification fights, but with contract's like Fedor's that doesn't allow for any fights outside of something he's promoting, you have arguably the best fighter in the world fighting on a "smaller" show.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> Yeah, it would be so much better for the sport if they had one main professional league with the very best fighters, but having some really good talents out in Strikeforce like Overeem, Fedor, Mousasi, Sobral, Nick Diaz, Melendez and Aoki makes it hard to judge who really is the best. At least in boxing, the different sanctioning bodies allow for unification fights, but with contract's like Fedor's that doesn't allow for any fights outside of something he's promoting, you have arguably the best fighter in the world fighting on a "smaller" show.


Ya, unfortunately it will likely never change. The UFC does have some sound reasoning for a lot of their business practices, but some of them are also shady. Some fighters don't want to be involved with that, so the ones that can make a good living fighting elsewhere do just that.

The ideal situation would be for the different organizations to co-promote (which pretty much everyone outside of UFC does). It would allow different organizations for the fighters to choose from, and also keep some competition between organizations which I think is needed. What propelled MMA to what it is now (IMO) was competition between Pride and UFC.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

torndownunit said:


> Ya, unfortunately it will likely never change. The UFC does have some sound reasoning for a lot of their business practices, but some of them are also shady. Some fighters don't want to be involved with that, so the ones that can make a good living fighting elsewhere do just that.
> 
> The ideal situation would be for the different organizations to co-promote (which pretty much everyone outside of UFC does). It would allow different organizations for the fighters to choose from, and also keep some competition between organizations which I think is needed. What propelled MMA to what it is now (IMO) was competition between Pride and UFC.


The last good one that could have been called a copromotion was when UFC sent it's guys over to the Pride middleweight Grand Prix. That was an awesome event to say the least.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Ya even if they had one 'tournament' a year or something, it would answer a lot of questions fight FANS have. The thing is Dana White spends so much time trying to convince people that the other organizations suck, and that their fighters aren't 'UFC quality' that he has too much to lose. There are plenty of fighters outside the UFC that have the potential (I stress potential, because they may not be favourites in the odds) to beat the UFC's best. The UFC wouldn't even take the chance of that happening.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

I know, Dana needs to quit treating the guys outside the UFC like they're nothing. Not that I take his word anyway, one day he's bashing a guy who would walk all over one of his champions and the next he's hyping an opponent who's just a jobber getting ready to be beaten by said champion.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Good card last night! Leban knocked out by Stann which was a big surprise, I was expecting Leban to win that one. The guy can take some unreal shots though. Brandon Vera had the worst nose I've seen since Anderson Silva gave Rich Franklin reconstructive surgery a few years back. Vera looked bad against Silva for the most part, he looks to big to be in 205 because when he cuts down there's nothing to him. They should really make a case for a 225 division because it's a big jump from 205 to fighting guys the size of Brock. As for the main event, what a surprise that was I thought this one was going to be a bore but it was great. Got a bit dragged out in the middle rounds when Gray was gassed and Edgar was afraid to get hit but when both guys knew there wasn't a decisive winner they came out strong in the final round. Personally I think Maynard won but I could see a draw, I had it 10-8 first round for Maynard then Edgar, Maynard, Edgar and the last one I thought could have went either way. Anybody else catch the card?


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

It did turn out to be a good fight. Gotta give a lot of props to Edgar for weathering the storm of that first round. I thought he was done. I don't think either guy will do too well against Pettis. Can't wait to see that one. I agree that Vera did not look good at all. I wouldn't be surprised if he got cut from the UFC. Poor game plan I think. 

Too bad for Leben. What a chin though. I know he's a bit of a rounder but I like him just the same. Always puts on a great fight.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Stratin2traynor said:


> It did turn out to be a good fight. Gotta give a lot of props to Edgar for weathering the storm of that first round. I thought he was done. I don't think either guy will do too well against Pettis. Can't wait to see that one. I agree that Vera did not look good at all. I wouldn't be surprised if he got cut from the UFC. Poor game plan I think.
> 
> Too bad for Leben. What a chin though. I know he's a bit of a rounder but I like him just the same. Always puts on a great fight.


I wouldn't be surprised either, if he doesn't get cut this time he will the next loss. Unless he can start making his losses look better.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Stratin2traynor said:


> It did turn out to be a good fight. Gotta give a lot of props to Edgar for weathering the storm of that first round. I thought he was done. I don't think either guy will do too well against Pettis. Can't wait to see that one. I agree that Vera did not look good at all*. I wouldn't be surprised if he got cut from the UFC. Poor game plan I think. *
> 
> Too bad for Leben. What a chin though. I know he's a bit of a rounder but I like him just the same. Always puts on a great fight.


Vera actually did get cut... nothing like adding insult to injury.









Brandon Vera cut by UFC after losing at UFC 125 in Las Vegas


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Not surprised at all. Too bad. I remember when he was the future of a very weak HW division - it's gotta be weak if Tim Silvia is at the top! Don't know what happened to him but when he cut to 205 he just bombed. Hopefully he makes a comeback.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

I remember then too, but it seems like the super heavyweights are taking over the division. Like how does a guy who's 220-230 have a chance against a guy that cuts 25-30 lbs to make 265. Like I said before I believe when he dropped to 205 he lost all his strength, seemed like it was too much of a cut for him. He looked good at heavyweight but got muscled around by Tim Silvia in his last fight at heavyweight, but that was only because Silvia had such a weak chin and was afraid of getting knocked out. So he pressed him up against the cage for 3 rounds. Although I won't knock Silvia too much, when he would cheat on the roids he looked decent. It's too bad though Vera had a lot going for him at one time, then he dropped to 205 and his kicks turned into slaps... here's hoping he gets it together because at 33 he doesn't have a whole lot of time left. There's only one guy I've seen last up in age and that's Randy Couture, although Chuck Liddell was a late bloomer as well.


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