# Bitcoin



## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

I have been following this Bitcoin thing a bit and I am curious about this new cryto-currency trend.
anyone here have any Bitcoin? What do you guys think of this?


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I'm a finance guy. Follow the story a little bit, debated doing some mining a couple years back. If I had thought they would go to $1000, as it was recently, of course I would have started. But I didn't, and the power/equipment costs didn't add up to profitability back then.

Now? Way too speculative and volatile. No thanks, I take some risk in my investing but not that much.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

There's trouble in Bitcoin land.

Just heard about it on Radio1,a major Bitcoin player in Japan was hacked and declared bankruptcy .
Lost hundreds of millions apparently .


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## Beach Bob (Sep 12, 2009)

I think that the idea behind a fiat currency that is not backed by a gov't is interesting, but the real world value is really quite minimal... All these speculators chasing Bitcoins around really deserve each other, as well as the inevitable ripoffs that will happen with it.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

nkjanssen said:


> I'm not sure why a regular person would want bitcoins, though. What can I do with them that I can't do with CDN$ or US$?


You could buy drugs and hire a hitman on the Deep Web?


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Beach Bob said:


> I think that the idea behind a fiat currency that is not backed by a gov't is interesting, but the real world value is really quite minimal... All these speculators chasing Bitcoins around really deserve each other, as well as the inevitable ripoffs that will happen with it.


the only thing i wonder about is, are those people insured against loss somehow? because that sure would suck for everyone else, which is how it always seems to work these days. like when they tripled my bike insurance and told me it was because of 9/11. america has the fdic if you are a bank, but i don't know how the bitcoin thing is handled in that reguard.




hardasmum said:


> You could buy drugs and hire a hitman on the Deep Web?


if the other 3 people in the world who enjoyed dana carvey in "master of disguise" were also here, all 4 of us would have lol'd.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

cheezyridr said:


> the only thing i wonder about is, are those people insured against loss somehow? because that sure would suck for everyone else, which is how it always seems to work these days.


I'm far from schooled on the whole Bitcoin thing (if you didn't guess),but the way they made it sound on the bit I heard this afternoon , there is no insurance at all. 

It seems to me ,from the little I've heard , it's all based on an honour system ,please correct me if I'm wrong .


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2014)

One of the cool things about living here in Silicon Valley is high technology stuff is usually useful here far sooner than it is anywhere else. Bitcoin is a good example. You can pay for things with Bitcoin here at quite a few places. I've got some invested in it, mostly as an experiment in to the concept, but I haven't used it to purchase anything yet. It's been all over the place in terms of value, but I think there's a real idea here that has merit and will work out.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

bluesmostly said:


> I have been following this Bitcoin thing a bit and I am curious about this new cryto-currency trend.
> anyone here have any Bitcoin? What do you guys think of this?


You do understand what Bitcoin means don't you? It is called Bitcoin because the guy(s) who invented it wanted to make a "bit-o-coin" off of everyone else.:sSig_busted:


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

As I understand this whole thing I have to purchase these Bitcoin with real dollars, but they are really just an imaginary coin in cyber space that can be transferred from computer to computer or cell or some reader. Now if I don't want them anymore what the hell do I do with them, I suppose I could stuff them where the sun don't shine if nothing else. As far as I'm concerned that's about what they're worth, nothing.


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2014)

nkjanssen said:


> Is there anything that it makes more sense to buy with Bitcoin than with regular money (apart from drugs, guns, hitmen, etc.)?


A Tesla. 

- - - Updated - - -



fredyfreeloader said:


> As I understand this whole thing I have to purchase these Bitcoin with real dollars, but they are really just an imaginary coin in cyber space that can be transferred from computer to computer or cell or some reader. Now if I don't want them anymore what the hell do I do with them, I suppose I could stuff them where the sun don't shine if nothing else. As far as I'm concerned that's about what they're worth, nothing.


You can get them by performing cryptographic computations as well. So there's no real money cost to obtaining them this way. I won one of mine, got the others playing around with some mining approaches using AWS.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

that whole bitcoin thing sounded like a disaster from the first time I heard about it

however some of the early ppl made out pretty well, from what I read....the key is to sell them before the whole thing blows apart, which seems to be happening now

I'm glad I didn't invest in beanie-babies either


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

as for Bitcoin , its a very interesting way to bypass the normal State backed currency rules.

If you think that normal currencys world wide are as safe as I think most you do , you havent been paying attention.
Just a short history lesson from Chile, Venezuala , and a bunch of African countrys plus a few other choice States will tell you that "normal" currencies 
can be very fickle. Before you know it, your lugging a wheel barrel full of paper to buy a loaf of bread.
There is a reason gold reached 2 thousand dollars an ounce just recently.
Lets see what happens when the USA starts dumping those trillions of dollars of bonds they have purchased onto the market.
Wonder if the price of wheel barrals will skyrocket?

ANyways ...Bitcoins and Gold and World currencies are only worth what people are willing to pay for them.
Its all a crap shoot and there are NO Guarantees.


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

nkjanssen said:


> Try as I might, I can't figure out why it would be preferable to holding a stable, ... I'm not sure why a regular person would want bitcoins, though. What can I do with them that I can't do with CDN$ or US$?


there are a few advantages that Bitcoin does have over state backed currencies. you can trade goods and services internationally and bypass currency exchange rate differentials, which could be a hugh advantage for someone in Africa wanting to buy a guitar in North America for example. You can also bypass the system of fees and costs of transferring funds internationally thru banking institutions, and without the wait period.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Didn't they just freeze bitcoin and I believe I heard that there is 6 Billion dollars that no one can get to. And they are not guaranteed like a bank so the government does not have any insurance backing bitcoin. No thanks I like what there is right now without bitcoin. ship
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/L...ices-fall-after-withdrawals-are-frozen.-video


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

nkjanssen said:


> Only if you can find a seller that accepts bitcoin. And you'd have to deal with exchange rates when you buy the bit coin anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Those costs are pretty nominal, though. IMO, you'd have to be extremely fee-averse and not the least bit risk-averse to prefer Bitcoin over a hard currency for that reason.


good points


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2014)

nkjanssen said:


> Only if you can find a seller that accepts bitcoin. And you'd have to deal with exchange rates when you buy the bit coin anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Those costs are pretty nominal, though. IMO, you'd have to be extremely fee-averse and not the least bit risk-averse to prefer Bitcoin over a hard currency for that reason.


Or you'd have to be interested in contributing to new monetary experiments and not mind a little risk. There's reasons to try Bitcoin out beyond just saving on fees and exchange rates. You're supporting an experiment in a global currency, something that even ten years ago wasn't even possible. This is an all-humans-around-the-globe scale experiment (within a particular economic class, yes) that's happening. 

That's pretty f'ing cool.


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Or you'd have to be interested in contributing to new monetary experiments and not mind a little risk. There's reasons to try Bitcoin out beyond just saving on fees and exchange rates. You're supporting an experiment in a global currency, something that even ten years ago wasn't even possible. This is an all-humans-around-the-globe scale experiment (within a particular economic class, yes) that's happening.
> 
> That's pretty f'ing cool.


yes, this is one of the things that fascinates me most about it, and with no centralized control from the World Bank or IBS, just people exchanging goods and services with other people. I am not thinking of it as an investment tool like many assume it to be, although it would have been cool get get a pile of it @ $4, or even $40.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

I don't get why any of you would want to even think about something like this, unless one of you buggers is holding out on us and had won the lottery. There is nothing to guarantee that tomorrow that money is going to be there and what do you then. I still can't understand the idiot who sold his home for bitcoins and the guy who started it all, well one day he is going to be laying on a nice beach of an island that he just bought with your money. ship


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## Option1 (May 26, 2012)

Some tulips, anyone?

Also worth a read: Bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox disappears from web after massive losses.

Neil


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

I found this story hilarious. 

http://boingboing.net/2014/03/01/tsa-agents-propose-secondary-s.html

"Davi Barker was flying from Manchester, NH when, he says, he was stopped by two men who identified themselves as "managers" for the TSA, who claimed they had seen Bitcoins in his baggage and wanted to be sure he wasn't transporting more than $10,000 worth. When he asked them what they thought a Bitcoin looked like, they allegedly said that it looked like a coin or a medallion."

The whole story right from Davi.
http://dailyanarchist.com/2014/02/24/the-tsa-is-looking-for-bitcoin/


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## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

Bitcoins would be perfect to purchase carbon credits. Imaginary currency for imaginary commodity.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Fader said:


> Bitcoins would be perfect to purchase carbon credits. Imaginary currency for imaginary commodity.


now THAT was funny!


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## Beach Bob (Sep 12, 2009)

Well played. 

I can't even remember the last time I heard carbon credits mentioned... guess that one sailed off into the sunset


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Tell big lies, make people believe it's easy money and some people will believe it.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Fader said:


> Bitcoins would be perfect to purchase carbon credits. Imaginary currency for imaginary commodity.


Hopefully Redford doesn't hear about this and waste more tax money.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2014)

*Alberta bitcoin bank Flexcoin shuts down after hackers stole all of its online coins*


Flexcoin, a Canada-based bitcoin bank, said it was closing down after losing bitcoins 
worth about $600,000 to a hacker attack enabled by flaws in its software code.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> Tell big lies, make people believe it's easy money and some people will believe it.


Yup.. Just a new improved version of the old pyramid scheme/scam.


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2014)

Here's your intro to the concept and the implementation: http://pcasts.in/AuT4


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

A bitcoin shop?



Difficult to see, but that sign just says bitcoin.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Another theft in Ottawa 
http://business.financialpost.com/2...ge-defrauded-of-100000-in-easiest-heist-ever/


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Ship of fools said:


> There is nothing to guarantee that tomorrow that money is going to be there and what do you then.


There is no guarantee that tomorrow, our Canadian money will be there either. It could all come crashing down in a very small time frame and though it isn't likely, it is a possibility. There are a lot of 'unreal' things that are becoming more like possibilities as time passes.


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

smorgdonkey said:


> There is no guarantee that tomorrow, our Canadian money will be there either. It could all come crashing down in a very small time frame and though it isn't likely, it is a possibility. There are a lot of 'unreal' things that are becoming more like possibilities as time passes.


It is more than likely that the US and Canadian dollar will crash, it is mathematically inevitable, as it is with all fiat, debt based currencies. I have read a few books over the years on the history of the monetary system and the average life span of national currencies is shorter than we think, I just can't remember the number of years off hand. When it does happen, it will happen very fast indeed, as it always does.


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

bluesmostly said:


> It is more than likely that the US and Canadian dollar will crash, it is mathematically inevitable, as it is with all fiat, debt based currencies. I have read a few books over the years on the history of the monetary system and the average life span of national currencies is shorter than we think, I just can't remember the number of years off hand. When it does happen, it will happen very fast indeed, as it always does.


Fact #1 - Every known fiat (unbacked) currency system in history has failed with devastating consequences.

Fact #2 - Our current dollar-based system of fiat is the largest and longest running such example of its kind, putting us at perhaps greater risk than ever before. 

Only problem is, bitcoin is just one more system of fiat since it doesn't have any backing. It is a currency that is without the ability to be controlled by governments, and that fact alone makes it a compelling experiment.

Also, forget deposit-insurance backing (CDIC, FDIC, etc) of the loonie/greenback as any kind of meaningful protection scheme - it's just there to make you feel good and/or lend support to the system should a financial institution or two fall by the wayside. By their very design (member premium paid insurance fund), these systems are not intended to protect the underlying currency at large. In fact, the FDIC, although much larger in scale than our CDIC system, was technically bankrupted once already (Savings and Loan Crisis of the early '90's).

If you want some "currency" that is safe and perhaps free from government interference, I'd recommend gold, precious gems, non-perishable foodstuffs (canned food, etc) - you get the picture. Best not to tell a lot of people you have these things also... ;^)


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

Most gloom and doom prophecies never come true. It's a scary world out there, but I choose each day to be an optimist. I expect good things! By the way, we are all doomed. None of us are getting out alive!


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2014)

We're all here for one purpose in life. 
To die. The rest is a choice. 

author unknown.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Just think...but not for the flaws in software that made it vulnerable to the theft(s), bitcoin was flying as a concept.

That much alone will have someone correct the issues and start something similar.


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

DISCLAIMER - post #40 was not a "doom and gloom" post. I'm not a pessimist at heart, and do believe that we can prevail whatever is thrown at us from a financial risk perspective. Having said that, and as a guy who's made his living advising clients how to build/manage wealth for the past 25 yrs, IMO that we have to be cognizant and realistic about financial risks.

FWIW, Weimar Republic-era Germany may have provided a solid example of how a currency can collapse under the weight of it's own massive sovereign debt. Under that example, had your wealth been concentrated in currency or other debt-backed instruments, you would have been essentially wiped out. Had you diversified it outside of the country, you would have made out fine. As well, buying good quality stocks or even real estate might've proved a good store of value in the long run, but, for obvious reasons, these things are never liquid enough to be considered "money". Those that managed to keep their gold under the Weimar Republic crisis had a relatively stable form of currency, though it was somewhat of a black market exchange trade, as gold often can be under dire circumstances when gov'ts are confiscating it.

Japan's massively spiralling debt through their "carry trade" seems to be one of the highest risk hotspots on the planet at this point. Japanese officials have already tipped their hand that if their highly aggressive attempts to re-inflate their economy fail, they'll simply *reset *their currency in order to offer hope and a fresh start to future generations (although to what massive cost burden to existing holders of their currency and debt paper?). Sounds like a Weimar Republic scenario all over again to me...

In the interests of full disclosure, I don't have a basement full of canned goods, water, gold or batteries (ha ha), nor do I have any bitcoins either (I might salute those that have some, however). I do diversify my holdings, of course, as it's the time-tested and prudent thing to do. And yeah, I'm cautiously optimistic that the human spirit will prevail and that folks that use their wits will endure.


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

I'm a bitcoin holder and miner. Currently have +20 GPU's running on 5 computers mining Bitcoins (altcoins). Have been studying it from the start, but didn't really get into it until this past fall.

Would be happy to help anyone out here if they were interested in getting into it.

Some helpful links:
https://coinmarketcap.com/mineable.html#USD
http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency (inf

If you were ever going to buy some bitcoins today (March 28th 2014) would be a great day to do it, as the price is very low due to some uncertainty in China. (info here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/21jv4r/heres_what_is_going_on_in_china/). Currently hovering around $500 CAD for 1BTC. There's lots of speculation that 1BTC will be worth 3-6K before this year is out.


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

Also, just wanted to add that with all of these news stories about sites getting hacked, exchange insolvency issues (Mt Gox, etc) - It's generally understood in the communities that I frequent for this type of stuff (reddit, various forums), that if you were holding large amounts of Bitcoin, altcoin, fiat currency on these types of systems - that generally, you got what you deserved - OF COURSE having money online isn't safe, and is vulnerable to these types of attacks, and theft. In Mt Gox's case, it's generally thought that the gentleman who owned that exchange - FYI started as an exchange for Magic The Gathering *Mt Gox* cards - has stolen the coins - this has been confirmed by following the public leger that is recorded whenever a bitcoin/altcoin transaction takes place. Theres plenty of information about this on reddit under /r/Bitcoin.

I'm a firm believer that these are growing pains that Bitcoin has to go through to become a trusted currency. It's value doesn't matter, it's what you can do with it: send money almost instantly with no fees, and no middleman - you are your own bank.


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

flashPUNK said:


> Also, just wanted to add that with all of these news stories about sites getting hacked, exchange insolvency issues (Mt Gox, etc) - It's generally understood in the communities that I frequent for this type of stuff (reddit, various forums), that if you were holding large amounts of Bitcoin, altcoin, fiat currency on these types of systems - that generally, you got what you deserved - OF COURSE having money online isn't safe, and is vulnerable to these types of attacks, and theft. In Mt Gox's case, it's generally thought that the gentleman who owned that exchange - FYI started as an exchange for Magic The Gathering *Mt Gox* cards - has stolen the coins - this has been confirmed by following the public leger that is recorded whenever a bitcoin/altcoin transaction takes place. Theres plenty of information about this on reddit under /r/Bitcoin.
> 
> I'm a firm believer that these are growing pains that Bitcoin has to go through to become a trusted currency. It's value doesn't matter, it's what you can do with it: send money almost instantly with no fees, and no middleman - you are your own bank.


thanks for the great response flashpunk. Most people seem to think of it as an investment tool, like stocks or bonds, but I think the future of crypto-currencies like Bitcoin is much more in line with you way of thinking. 

"you are you own bank" is perhaps the most significant and relevant statement about Bitcoin that I have seen so far.


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

bluesmostly said:


> Most people seem to think of it as an investment tool, like stocks or bonds,....


I don't get that either. "Alternative currency" or "alternative banking system" are better ways to think of the overall concept.


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

It can be both an investment tool: by trading various altcoins (there are hundreds now) on sites like Cryptsy.com. I haven't really gotten into that (not really into watching charts and stats all day long, for a few dollars here and there), but there are people who do it. This guy has a Youtube channel that goes into how you can do it: https://www.youtube.com/user/JohnnyRoq765/videos.
It is most certainly an alternative banking system, or an alternative currency. With the recent announcement by companies like Stripe, and Square (online payment gateways, that you've probably used before, but didn't know it), it is going to start becoming more widely accessible.

I think the main issue holding people back from getting into it is the abstract idea of what a bitcoin actually is. I believe it is becoming more and more like it's own decentralized currency. However there are many barriers to entry which will hopefully be overcome in the next 12 months.


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

I imagine there are arbitrage opportunities given the variance in exchange rates. Even with standard, "centralized" currencies, it's possible to exploit small market pricing variances for investment gain.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

I don't understand the whole bitcoin thing, but this caught my attention today - http://www.kijiji.ca/v-guitar/calga...oin-atm-inside-music-centre-canada/1009698702

Why would a guitar store need/have a bitcoin exchange? Does this mean customers can use bitcoins to buy a guitar there?


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

Machines have been popping up everywhere, and I think you will start to see them more and more. Not sure of that stores policy (you should ask!). Bitcoin atm's usually mean you can purchase Bitcoin with cash, it works basically like a vending machine except it spits out everything you need to keep your Bitcoin.

Glad to answer any other questions if anyone has any!


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

the price has gone up since this thread started and I think this thing is for real - it is a great concept. I also like the idea that 3rd world people with a cell phone can trade anywhere in the world without the need to have a bank account. 

I will be getting some Bitcoin this fall for sure. I'll probably want to pick your brain some flash. thanks.


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

The value has gone up and down, it looked like last week it was going to crash pretty hard, but it recovered. Please be aware it's a very volatile market and you should never go in deeper than you can afford to lose. That being said, the possibilities are endless with his technology.


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