# Right wing musicians (oxymoron) hmmm?



## Gary787 (Aug 27, 2011)

I am a member of a few musician based forums. Like a lot of us I grew up in the 70's and started my own family in the 80's. My musical education was protest folk, orchestral rock, pre classic rock. Something has happened to a lot of my musical peers. They grew up with peace love and groovey only to age into right wing, get off my lawn grumpy old men. I like to think it's easier to be funny if you're always taking the more *right*eous side of popular topics but I could be wrong and a lot of my musician friends have simply become their parents. 
(I probably used the term "oxymoron" wrong. It's early)


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Stephen Harper comes to mind.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

As long as you don't embarrass you're whole country from time to time...


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## Gary787 (Aug 27, 2011)

Maybe I am wrong? The Ford brothers politics remind me of the old 70's Rhinoceros party. I am sure once his handlers loose control over Dougie the new Progressive Conservative Party platform will be "2 feet high and made of wood" ( old joke I apologize)
Rhinoceros Party of Canada (1963–93) - Wikipedia


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Perhaps Churchill included musicians in this quote?


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2018)

Mama let that boy play some rock and roll
Jazz is much too crazy, he can play it when he's old
He's too young for the blues, he's still inside his first pair of shoes
He's just a baby


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

As I get older I hate being left no choice but to pick from one extreme or the other or nothing politically. I think that's the root of most people's contempt with politics. It certainly is mine.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2018)

davetcan said:


> Perhaps Churchill included musicians in this quote?


Yes I live my life through the musings of Winston Churchill.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Player99 said:


> Yes I live my life through the musings of Winston Churchill.


I can tell.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Some of us grow up and dont just automatically oppose the views of our parents like spoiled brats but better understand where they were coming from, and respect the validity of them.
I think once you lived some years, earned some money, paid your taxes, no longer associate with shiftless deadbeats and counterculture types, maybe even have kids of your own that you want to raise, protect and provide a future for, its not unusual to see some of the points of the more conservative side.

It reminds me of a story I read about Charles Barkley...he was talking about politics with his wife, who was surprised he was going to vote republican (this was pre-Obama lol)...she said "why? theyre only for the rich!" and he said something like "But I am rich!".

fwiw, I grew up with hard rock metal in the 80s...politics wasn't really a big part of it. Our parents generation on the right or left despised us pretty much equally.

Besides, conservative vs liberal isn't clearly black and white....Many conservatives like myself may feel "right" on some issues and "left" on the others,...but our political spectrum forces you to pick a side. Right or left, once you've become so entrenched in an ideology that you think the other side has no valid points or perspective and is unworthy of respect, you should consider yourself a brainless automaton, and your perpective may not be as compelling to others when they realize this.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2018)

davetcan said:


> I can tell.


You can tell I am not a crotchety old prick that wants to perform eugenics on the poor? How observant.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

Lookin for conservative musicians? I guess you haven't found Telecaster Guitar Forum


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Player99 said:


> You can tell I am not a crotchety old prick that wants to perform eugenics on the poor? How observant.


no, just a fool looking to stir shit up with absurd offensive nonsense like this.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

Left and right, Conservative and Liberal (capitalized) are:

a) false dualities for those that are too lazy to observe, think, and reason with any rationality;

b) now have zero meaning (ie randomly arranged and empty letters of the alphabet) and, in fact, have a net evil effect on Western societies by confusing the masses implied in a) towards power and corruption goals of the few whom we shall call “politicians” for lack of other random letters to use.

Discussing these two sets of dualities is utterly meaningless. Reason out the issues directly, stop “belonging”. Humans are everything in every dimension, you shouldn’t bleed for everyone, but you should bleed for some.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

JazzyT said:


> Lookin for conservative musicians? I guess you haven't found Telecaster Guitar Forum


nothing says you can't be a member here and the Tele forum....


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

LexxM3 said:


> Left and right, Conservative and Liberal (capitalized) are:
> 
> a) false dualities for those that are too lazy to observe, think, and reason with any rationality;
> 
> ...


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## cdntac (Oct 11, 2017)

When you're young you're all for helping others and believe a lot of life isn't fair. 

As you get older and see many of your tax dollars go to waste enabling those who don't want to work or have a sense of entitlement....one begins to see the world a little differently.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

cdntac said:


> When you're young you're all for helping others and believe a lot of life isn't fair.
> 
> As you get older and see many of your tax dollars go to waste enabling those who don't want to work or have a sense of entitlement....one begins to see the world a little differently.


You only have to listen to Wynne making $8 Billion worth of promises with other peoples money to understand this. They've had 15 years to enact these policies, instead she's just squandered billions of dollars on pet projects and scandal. Is health care in better shape than when they took power? The environment? Roads? Education? How are those hydro bills? Insurance costs dropped 15%?

None of the above. Instead Ontario is now the most indebted sub sovereign state, with twice as much debt as California but 1/3 of the population.

This should be in the Political Forum but I'll bow out if the rest of you can keep it focused on Conservative musicians


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

It seems that for all of my life someone is always coming along with a promise to make the world a better place and they reach in to my pocket to make it happen. When I was younger it didn't matter so much because I was gonna be rich and my life was gonna be wonderful. Now, I'm where I am and I have what I have and even though I'm happy I know my road and I know that the money out of my pocket didn't do what it was supposed to do.

So, stop with the promises already and leave me to my road. No political party has ever really made that big a difference - so I vote for the one who seems to respect my money the most. I wish it were Libertarian - but it's not. The closest thing is Conservative.

Seriously, screw them all and give me a island.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Player99 said:


> You can tell I am not a crotchety old prick that wants to perform eugenics on the poor? How observant.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

I've said it many times that picking political parties is like being in prison and given the choice of which gang is gonna rape you.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

davetcan said:


> I'll bow out if the rest of you can keep it focused on Conservative musicians


I imagine Conservative Musicians only play Bach through their Axe FX models. Is that the same for Right Wing Musicians?


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Right wing, left wing, both part of the same turkey.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

vadsy said:


> nothing says you can't be a member here and the Tele forum....


Nothin!


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Gary787 said:


> Something has happened to a lot of my musical peers. *They grew up *with peace love and groovey only to age into right wing, get off my lawn grumpy old men.




Note the bolded words in your post. That is what happened.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Diablo said:


> Some of us grow up and dont just automatically oppose the views of our parents like spoiled brats but better understand where they were coming from, and respect the validity of them.
> I think once you lived some years, earned some money, paid your taxes, no longer associate with shiftless deadbeats and counterculture types, maybe even have kids of your own that you want to raise, protect and provide a future for, its not unusual to see some of the points of the more conservative side.


Yep.




> It reminds me of a story I read about Charles Barkley...he was talking about politics with his wife, who was surprised he was going to vote republican (this was pre-Obama lol)...she said "why? theyre only for the rich!" and he said something like "But I am rich!".


It was his grandmother but yes, true story.





> fwiw, I grew up with hard rock metal in the 80s...politics wasn't really a big part of it. Our parents generation on the right or left despised us pretty much equally.


Same here. It was the punkers who were all political (very left wing), not us.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Player99 said:


> You can tell I am not a crotchety old prick that wants to perform eugenics on the poor? How observant.



If you had an ounce of intelligence you would know that even that darling of the Canadian Left, Tommy Douglas, fully supported eugenics. In fact, he wrote his Master's thesis on that very topic at McMaster. While in my PhD program there I got curious one day as to whether that claim was actually true or not so I looked his thesis up in the library and yes, he most certainly did support eugenics.

If you had any education or intelligence you would know that a broad spectrum of the population supported eugenics back then and wouldn't pretend that it was some right wing theory. The fact that you do only demonstrates how uneducated and ignorant you actually are.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

JazzyT said:


> Lookin for conservative musicians? I guess you haven't found Telecaster Guitar Forum



What about The Gear Page? Isn't that place overly populated with P & W religious types?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

This thread is a bit like a Red Green home-improvement project. Starts out as a "brilliant idea", and quickly devolves into a mess.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

colchar said:


> What about The Gear Page? Isn't that place overly populated with P & W religious types?


Err, that's me too. Not all religious types are on the right.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2018)

mhammer said:


> This thread is a bit like a Red Green home-improvement project. Starts out as a "brilliant idea", and quickly devolves into a mess.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

JazzyT said:


> Err, that's me too. Not all religious types are on the right.



Fair enough, but I would wager that the majority are.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

colchar said:


> Fair enough, but I would wager that the majority are.


Religious people are more likely to be leftwing, says thinktank Demos


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

davetcan said:


> Religious people are more likely to be leftwing, says thinktank Demos


Inneresting, but that sounds like a UK survey. I'd hesitate to generalize their results to the US, for example. My own suspicions are that rightwing folks are more comfortable being vocal about their religiosity.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

davetcan said:


> Religious people are more likely to be leftwing, says thinktank Demos



Maybe in Britain (if you actually believe _The Guardian_), but look at the US and try saying that religious people are left wing.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

JazzyT said:


> Inneresting, but that sounds like a UK survey. I'd hesitate to generalize their results to the US, for example. My own suspicions are that rightwing folks are more comfortable being vocal about their religiosity.


Depends on your religion but the majority in the US are either Democrat or Democrat leaning.

Religious Landscape Study

Which does seem odd given that the Reps seem to lead in all other charts below the first one.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

davetcan said:


> Depends on your religion but the majority in the US are either Democrat or Democrat leaning.
> 
> Religious Landscape Study
> 
> Which does seem odd given that the Reps seem to lead in all other charts below the first one.


I can't follow that link at work, but here is the first person to come to mind: William Barber II - Wikipedia


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

colchar said:


> Maybe in Britain (if you actually believe _The Guardian_), but look at the US and try saying that religious people are left wing.


What the actual proportions are is an empirical question that I don't have the numbers for. But suffice to say that some folks find a basis in their religious beliefs for fomenting progressive social change (e.g. Martin Luther King, Archbishop Romero), and others find a basis for limiting the rights of others, or simply abusing their own status/position (e.g., Winston Blackmore, Fred Phelps). 

Of course, I think it bears noting that there are folks who, through the lens of their religious beliefs, or rather, the religious beliefs they hold in addition to their political/ideological ones, view what they insist on AS a reclaiming of liberties and rights. That is, we, as outside observers, may view them as "right-wing", while they view themselves as progressives, or revolutionaries. They certainly won't want to _call_ themselves "lefties" or liberals, but in their own minds they are storming the ramparts.

Wittgenstein said that we should not confuse "the description of the thing with the thing itself". When it comes to religious and political beliefs/affinities, we would be wise to not rely too much on our labels and descriptions. Humans are a tricky bunch.


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## brucew (Dec 30, 2017)

Well, you first have to realize the perspective. Unlike what you may have been led to believe, there is NO right wing party in Canada. The cons are slightly left of center, the libs and dips are both racing to see who can be more ludicrously extreme left.

Most Cdns I believe are actually libertarian socially and conservative fiscally. We tend to judge people by how they pull on their own boots, or alternately if they wait for someone else to do the heavy lifting. If more people bothered to read party platforms, bylaws and constitutions many wouldn't vote how they do, as they'd be in for a surprise.

So as to the op, likely a lot more musicians would fall into what we consider from the Cdn perspective as, "right wing" than you'd think, even though they're actually left of center, only due to no party actually representing their beliefs and our skewed perspective. (That's if they bothered to do any research)

Hey, my opinion was asked, that's it.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

In Japan Shinzo Abe is considered by alot of people to be a right wing zealot. If he ran here he would be considered a a socialist nutcase. Even by the NDP.
In USA Obama is considered by alot of people to be a socialist nutcase. If he ran here he would be considered a right wing zealot. Even by the Conservatives..........


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## Gary787 (Aug 27, 2011)

davetcan said:


> You only have to listen to Wynne making $8 Billion worth of promises with other peoples money to understand this. They've had 15 years to enact these policies, instead she's just squandered billions of dollars on pet projects and scandal. Is health care in better shape than when they took power? The environment? Roads? Education? How are those hydro bills? Insurance costs dropped 15%?
> 
> None of the above. Instead Ontario is now the most indebted sub sovereign state, with twice as much debt as California but 1/3 of the population.
> 
> This should be in the Political Forum but I'll bow out if the rest of you can keep it focused on Conservative musicians


As God is my witness I thought I had put this in the political forum.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2018)

Gary787 said:


> As God is my witness I thought I had put this in the political forum.


God died last year with a crack pipe in an alley.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2018)

Diablo said:


> no, just a fool looking to stir shit up with absurd offensive nonsense like this.


I am referencing the other Aggressive Subversive Conservative thread.


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## Guest (Mar 21, 2018)

All righty then.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

An observation: more than once I've heard people say "More Canadians are actually X socially/politically". And guess what? The speaker was also X. How about that! Now X varied quite a bit but there you go.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Hamstrung said:


> I've said it many times that picking political parties is like being in prison and given the choice of which gang is gonna rape you.


But sadly, the alternatives suck even more. 

How would you like the option of:
1) Putin / Xi
2) hard labour for the rest of your life

As was said by someone, and probably erroneously accredited to Churchill ......










CGF - All Churchill, all the time. Playing your favorites on this no-repeat weekend!


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## Gary787 (Aug 27, 2011)

brucew said:


> Well, you first have to realize the perspective. Unlike what you may have been led to believe, there is NO right wing party in Canada. The cons are slightly left of center, the libs and dips are both racing to see who can be more ludicrously extreme left.
> 
> Most Cdns I believe are actually libertarian socially and conservative fiscally. We tend to judge people by how they pull on their own boots, or alternately if they wait for someone else to do the heavy lifting. If more people bothered to read party platforms, bylaws and constitutions many wouldn't vote how they do, as they'd be in for a surprise.
> 
> ...


I like your opinion but...I can't speak to musicians in general, only Guitar Forum musicians.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

JazzyT said:


> Inneresting, but that sounds like a UK survey. I'd hesitate to generalize their results to the US, for example. My own suspicions are that rightwing folks are more comfortable being vocal about their religiosity.


I think generally the more passionate/rabid/fanatical groups are about their beliefs, the larger they appear in the media.
there millions of peaceful level-headed Christians in America who don't go to protest the funerals of gays, or assassinate abortion clinic Dr's but that's not a great headline or the one that aligns with the medias agenda. I'm pretty sure the Italian Catholics in Brooklyn alone out number the fanatical Baptists in the south we see on the news, not to mention the flaw in associating all southerners with those Baptists as well.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I consider myself as leaning slightly left (but not a "lefty") in that I think people who need a hand up deserve a chance (which I think "should" appeal to the right as it's an investment in making someone a productive contributor to society instead of a drain on it) and those that "cannot" need the support to give them a meaningful and fulfilling existence, as much as possible. Socialised medical benefits and other programs I am for. 

But also

You still have to be fiscally responsible. A budget is just that, we cannot continually spend more than we make, that does not make sense at all. Money is what greases the wheels of everything we do and trying to get it from where it isn't (like from those who don't have much) is like trying to find water in the Mojave, and ridding yourself of money making investments (like Hydro One) is just stupid.

When you get to the bottom line, when it comes to the right or left is, have you listened to the left lately? There is not much in the way of sanity in some of their ravings. Sure, it is nice to idealise and want a fair and just society, but we are dealing with people here, and there will always be those that choose to live on the fringe of whatever is in place and (to quote Spock) "Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one". You can't run a country based solely on pandering to the fringe, or special interest groups. The left has swung way too far into a realm not based on reality.


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## brucew (Dec 30, 2017)

Gary787 said:


> I like your opinion but...I can't speak to musicians in general, only Guitar Forum musicians.


A very valid point. I am most definitely the latter.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

brucew said:


> Most Cdns I believe are actually libertarian socially and conservative fiscally.


It's funny that when I'm out east people say socially liberal and fiscally conservative, and out west it becomes libertarian because no one wants to associate themselves with the term "liberal".

Beyond that, libertarianism is a pretty loaded word that I don't believe is accurate in this case. Most Canadians aren't libertarians (advocating for the abolishment of the capitalist state and private ownership in favour of collective ownership as private property is an impediment to people's personal liberty), nor are they libertarians (advocating for the abolishment of the state in favour of self-ownership, private property and free markets with the idea that society will self-regulate via natural market pressure).

Most Canadians probably are liberal (belief in liberty and equality, generally support freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free markets, civil rights, democracy, and separation of church and state), even if the word is so tainted in some parts of Canada that some people have a hard time using it.

IMO.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I have met musicians all across the political spectrum, and more than a few who don't care--many famous musicians at least lean left--but I don't see how being musical automatically comes along with a political view...


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

_Azrael said:


> It's funny that when I'm out east people say socially liberal and fiscally conservative, and out west it becomes libertarian because no one wants to associate themselves with the term "liberal".
> 
> Beyond that, libertarianism is a pretty loaded word that I don't believe is accurate in this case. Most Canadians aren't libertarians (advocating for the abolishment of the capitalist state and private ownership in favour of collective ownership as private property is an impediment to people's personal liberty), nor are they libertarians (advocating for the abolishment of the state in favour of self-ownership, private property and free markets with the idea that society will self-regulate via natural market pressure).
> 
> ...



Classical liberalism is fine, it is the modern version as exemplified but Trudeau and Wynne that I have a problem with.

Funnily enough, I had to teach the definition of classical liberalism to my students this evening, as well as which modern Canadian political party most closely aligns with classical liberalism.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

_Azrael said:


> .... (belief in liberty and equality, generally support freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free markets, civil rights, democracy, and separation of church and state), even if the word is so tainted in some parts of Canada that some people have a hard time using it....


Although in the current climate those concepts might be regarded as far right.

In some spheres we seem to be moving toward the notion of reversing the burden of proof and that it’s OK to convict a few innocent people or exonerate the guilty if it is to the benefit of certain allegedly marginalized groups. That’s just one example and it seems that in general the western democracies are bent on destroying themselves. 

To me it’s just a curiosity as I’ve seen the best of it and likely won’t be around when the shit really goes down but it’s kinda fascinating to watch.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

colchar said:


> Classical liberalism is fine, it is the modern version as exemplified but Trudeau and Wynne that I have a problem with.


Socially,T & W seem to lean toward neo-Marxism I think. At least where it comes to trying to control the thoughts and actions of the population.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

zontar said:


> I have met musicians all across the political spectrum, and more than a few who don't care--many famous musicians at least lean left--but I don't see how being musical automatically comes along with a political view...


I think it depends how someone defines "musician"...a musician could be a hobbyist who works on the stockmarket, or it could be a starving artist. Naturally, these 2 SES types may skew differently politically. I think we usually think of them as the latter, although I doubt that that category is large enough to fuel the gear industry so is therefore over-represented in mindset. Looking at those on this forum, Id say most musicians are hobbyists and could come from any walk of life.
Even in celebs, I think it might be misrepresented...for instance, Bono sure talks like a liberal, but the way U2 shelters its income from taxation, is as hardcore corporate conservative as it gets.
When a famous "artist" owns a yacht and personal Gulfstream jet, I don't really wanna hear about their liberal values and how its the average income person that needs to do more to help the underprivileged. Bono could probably give away 95% of his wealth and live just fine while providing for his familys futures as well if he really gave a shit.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Based on what I'm reading lately I don't think that a lot of people really haven't taken the time to understand politics but seem to have accepted what social media is dishing out - that Liberal equals all things good and unicorny and Conservative equals all things evil and regressive.

There's a lot more poetry in pretty unicorns and damning the "Man" so that's where musicians tend to end up.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

allthumbs56 said:


> Based on what I'm reading lately I don't think that a lot of people really haven't taken the time to understand politics but seem to have accepted what social media is dishing out - that Liberal equals all things good and unicorny and Conservative equals all things evil and regressive.
> 
> There's a lot more poetry in pretty unicorns and damning the "Man" so that's where musicians tend to end up.


Was there ever a time or a place where musicians and artists generally weren't progressive?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

JazzyT said:


> Was there ever a time or a place where musicians and artists generally weren't progressive?


putting aside what a loaded term that is, define "progressive" in this context.
were the 60's/70's progressive?


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

Diablo said:


> putting aside what a loaded term that is, define "progressive" in this context.
> were the 60's/70's progressive?


It is well-defined. What term would you use?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

JazzyT said:


> It is well-defined. What term would you use?


permissive....alternative...regressive...probably many others. Maybe none.
I don't know that I consider disco to be progressive. I don't know that I consider the hippy drug culture era to be "progressive". Was metal " progressive"? Just because someone can play and write some tunes doesn't make them intellectually enlightened or somehow a valuable force for _positive _societal change.
You used the term, that's why I'm curious what you mean by it.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Diablo said:


> Was metal " progressive"?



Is progressive metal progressive?

Is progressive rock progressive?

Things to think about on a lazy Friday.................


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

Diablo said:


> permissive....alternative...regressive...probably many others. Maybe none.
> I don't know that I consider disco to be progressive. I don't know that I consider the hippy drug culture era to be "progressive". Was metal " progressive"? Just because someone can play and write some tunes doesn't make them intellectually enlightened or somehow a valuable force for _positive _societal change.
> You used the term, that's why I'm curious what you mean by it.


Maybe I said that backwards. I meant to say that most artists, if they are interested in politics, seem to be politically progressive. So I apply the term to politics, not art or music.

So my question is: when if ever were musicians (stickin to musicians) as a group identified as conservative. I'm not debating it, just looking for an example.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

JazzyT said:


> Maybe I said that backwards. I meant to say that most artists, if they are interested in politics, seem to be politically progressive. So I apply the term to politics, not art or music.
> 
> So my question is: when if ever were musicians (stickin to musicians) as a group identified as conservative. I'm not debating it, just looking for an example.


ya I think we may have divergent opinions on whether "liberal" = "progressive". I don't see them as synonymous across the board.
I agree, in recent years we may think of musicians as largely liberal....not sure that makes them progressive, strictly speaking. Theres a value judgement in there that's debatable.
Were musicians in old times "liberal"? I dunno...the good ones (we've heard of) played before royalty, nobility, the wealthy etc. and had privileged status. so maybe not.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

Diablo said:


> ya I think we may have divergent opinions on whether "liberal" = "progressive". I don't see them as synonymous across the board.
> I agree, in recent years we may think of musicians as largely liberal....not sure that makes them progressive, strictly speaking. Theres a value judgement in there that's debatable.
> Were musicians in old times "liberal"? I dunno...the good ones (we've heard of) played before royalty, nobility, the wealthy etc. and had privileged status. so maybe not.


I avoid the term liberal. As colchar pointed out, "classical liberalism" means a freetrader etc... I could just as well use "lefty" as progressive. Maybe earlier county music, given its rural roots, had more conservative musicians. I'm forgetting the point to this thread -- the Friday effect!


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

JazzyT said:


> Was there ever a time or a place where musicians and artists generally weren't progressive?


Well anytime - if the musician is filthy rich they can afford the crusade of their choice.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)




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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Wardo said:


> Although in the current climate those concepts might be regarded as far right.


I doubt it.

Just because some people believe in reasonable limits doesn't mean they don't believe in the overall concept. The argument of course will be over what someone considers a "reasonable limit", which IMO is why the far right thinks these things are under attack even though the average person is probably indifferent because they don't feel their rights are particularly threatened.



> In some spheres we seem to be moving toward the notion of reversing the burden of proof and that it’s OK to convict a few innocent people or exonerate the guilty if it is to the benefit of certain allegedly marginalized groups. That’s just one example and it seems that in general the western democracies are bent on destroying themselves.


Like lynching black people for infringing upon and depriving white people of what is naturally theirs? Or exonerating white people for killing black people because they felt threatened by their blackness?

I'm not insinuating you believe either of those things, just spinning what you said in a different direction to show that argument is a knife that cuts both ways.

Realistically, the government could mandate that everyone gets a free ice-cream cone on their birthday and someone's going to feel persecuted and accuse them of discrimination because they're lactose intolerant. The Conservatives would accuse the Government of waisting taxpayer money while in opposition, only to keep doing it while in power. The NDP would offer to increase the variety of flavours with no idea how they're going to pay for expanding the program. And lastly, the Liberals would try to convince people that the ice-cream isn't the problem, it's your intolerance that's the problem. Rather than offer a lactose free option they'd create a program designed to improve your tolerance to lactose.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

_Azrael said:


> Like lynching black people for infringing upon and depriving white people of what is naturally theirs? Or exonerating white people for killing black people because they felt threatened by their blackness?


Which law school did you go to ?


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Wardo said:


> Which law school did you go to ?


I dropped out of high school.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

_Azrael said:


> I dropped out of high school.


OK, I figured that only someone who had recently graduated from one of our messed up law schools could so competly miss the point of what I said ... lol


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Wardo said:


> OK, I figured that only someone who had recently graduated from one of our messed up law schools could so competly miss the point of what I said ... lol


What makes you assume I missed it?


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