# Cross Border Shopping!!!



## mod13 (Nov 30, 2007)

I know we don't want to hear this, but I live about an hour from the border...around here you are looking at $2500 for a bottom end Les Paul and have to deal with what they have in stock...and hour away that same guitar about 700 or even 1000 dollars cheaper, and a bigger selection!!! 

Just wondering, has anybody made the trip yet...NAFTA should take care of the duties for US/Can/Mex guitars, but if I buy a guitar in NY state and pay thier GST (what ever they call it) do I get that back at the border when I pay the PST/GST???

I want to support my local shop's...but man...a grand is a grand!!!


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## bRian (Jul 3, 2006)

I say GO FOR IT, we've been getting hosed long enough from our Canadian retailers.


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## Vincent (Nov 24, 2007)

You probably want to try out the guitar before you buy it however if you dont mind buying online lamusic has some great deals on gibson products such as guitars.

The site is a bit tough to navigate so its best to use search function...just type gibson in the search and see what they have.

Right now Im saving my pennies for a Gibson Flying V 1967 ReIssue that they are selling for $1050 in canadian dollars and shipping is free for orders of $199 and over...its a canadian website.
http://www.lamusic.ca/default.asp


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## Ophidian (May 22, 2006)

If you go down to the US for the day I think they will charge duty on bringing it back. Still I don't think it would be more than a $100.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

A Les Paul is made in the US, there is no duty. You only pay GST/PST when you bring it back.

Considering you'd be paying the tax if you bought one here too, and the tax is based on the selling value, you are actually saving on tax too.

With the Cdn $ sitting about par right now, there's no reason we should have to drive across the border to save money. Pisses me off.


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## MarkO (Nov 20, 2007)

mod13 said:


> I know we don't want to hear this, but I live about an hour from the border...around here you are looking at $2500 for a bottom end Les Paul and have to deal with what they have in stock...and hour away that same guitar about 700 or even 1000 dollars cheaper, and a bigger selection!!!
> 
> Just wondering, has anybody made the trip yet...NAFTA should take care of the duties for US/Can/Mex guitars, but if I buy a guitar in NY state and pay thier GST (what ever they call it) do I get that back at the border when I pay the PST/GST???
> 
> I want to support my local shop's...but man...a grand is a grand!!!


Can't you avoid paying duty altogether by bringing in a junk guitar and just doing the old switcheroo? As in, when you enter the country you say you have 1 guitar. When you leave the country, you also have 1 guitar.


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## skydigger (Oct 20, 2007)

I bought a top of the line Charvel in LA a few years ago and got the shop to write me up a receipt that said USED $199.99

I don't recall paying any duty on it...


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## mod13 (Nov 30, 2007)

Yeah I have been looking at the LA Music site latey.

I am just a little shy of buying a guitar without trying it...I wonder when the Canadian stores are going to start passing on the savings they are enjoying with the at-par dollar??? If ever...


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## Ringwraith (Nov 17, 2007)

One of the things to remember with our Canadian dealers is they don't get the same "dealer cost" as a high selling American dealer. For example, the Canadian market for Martin guitars is only 10% of Martins sales. They'll be giving a better dealer cost price to a US dealer. I'm sure the same goes with Gibson & Fender. Keep checking in with your local stores as the prices still seem to be adjusting.

I'm in the market for a new Martin & after finding out a few spots just south of us sell them for about 1/3 cheaper than here, I was planning to head south! That was about $800-$1000 difference on my!! The TO area stores have JUST dropped their Martin prices to almost the same. Although it's still a bit more, it's not enough savings for me to hike down to the US any more which is great!

Cheers
Sean


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## Andy (Sep 23, 2007)

If there's a $1000 difference, shop somewhere else. I was at L&M in Cambridge today, checked out a sunburst LP Classic, brand new in the $2000 range, $2200 tops. On Musician's Friend, they're going for $1999. For that little difference, why not keep the money in our country, it'll benefit you one way or another.

Andy


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## Ophidian (May 22, 2006)

What stops someone from taking a crapy guitar down with them and come back with a Gibson and say they brought it with them to the US? Just wondering.


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## Brian G (Aug 17, 2006)

Gibson is imported and distributed by Yorkville. So there's a distributor who has to add their own margin. Hopefully Gibson gives Yorkville an export discount compared to US dealer cost, but the distributor still accounts for increased cost.

Unless Yorkville works on an agency fee, akin to a rep fee, and not a full distribution margin. Some others here would know better than I. If Yorkville is managing to get close to US selling prices, while still adding value, they're doing a pretty fine job, IMO.

There are no doubt brands that are shipped directly to Canadian dealers (MusicMan?), without going thru a distributor.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

jroberts said:


> Seems like a lot of trouble and trickery just to save yourself a bit of GST.


And you never know what they will say. A year and a half ago I bought a Leslie on Ebay in N.Y. about an hour west of Buffalo. I did a straight run down and back. This was the biggest Leslie made so at five feet there is no hiding it in the trunk. 

I was back at the border after supper, The conversation went like 

_How long you been away_ 
6 hrs 
_Why? _
Bought a speaker for my organ on Ebay
_Are you going to sell it_ 
No I am going to hook it to my organ. 
_You came down just for this_ 
yes 
_How much you pay ?_ 
$ _ _ _ . _ _

_Get out of here have a nice day_


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## Tybone (Feb 12, 2006)

Ophidian said:


> What stops someone from taking a crapy guitar down with them and come back with a Gibson and say they brought it with them to the US? Just wondering.


Nothing....except being branded a smuggler.

I know that LnM (at least) is starting to get the message. The list before tax on an ES-339 was 1899.00. That is 100 bucks more than Musicians Friend. That is not bad considering the gas time and lack of access to the US retailer for warranty stuff. It would take more than a hundred bucks for me cross border shop. Even with GST and PST.


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## Ophidian (May 22, 2006)

Tybone said:


> Nothing....except being branded a smuggler.
> 
> I know that LnM (at least) is starting to get the message. The list before tax on an ES-339 was 1899.00. That is 100 bucks more than Musicians Friend. That is not bad considering the gas time and lack of access to the US retailer for warranty stuff. It would take more than a hundred bucks for me cross border shop. Even with GST and PST.



Well there's worst things you could be branded.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Can I clarify something here?. Your going to get a guitar? If you are then you will be subject to state taxes where you buy it. I am sure you could get back but the process won't be quick. I bet you pay tax on tax. That is if you are buying a new one. 

If you buy things from another province there is no sales tax. 

Would L&M do warranty work on an American bought guitar? If you have had your face in there store lots the story that you just moved to Canada is a little bit weak. 

Ps that dollar ain't what it used to be.. .98 this morning


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## Ophidian (May 22, 2006)

I think we should all by from Canadian stores. Why? If we don't music stores will close because of lack of buisness, then the ex-employees are not making any money so they not spending money so other buisnesses are suffering and the cycle continues. Just my thoughts.


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## Guiary (Oct 10, 2007)

Tybone said:


> Nothing....except being branded a smuggler.
> 
> I know that LnM (at least) is starting to get the message. The list before tax on an ES-339 was 1899.00. That is 100 bucks more than Musicians Friend. That is not bad considering the gas time and lack of access to the US retailer for warranty stuff. It would take more than a hundred bucks for me cross border shop. Even with GST and PST.



$100 difference I'm willing to pay, as long as it includes the cost of either PST or GST. Other than that it's down to the US for me. I just can't stand the idea, especially with Gibson products, that they have to be distributed through Canada by one company. I honestly think that's where the majority of the high price trouble lies. 

If you're doing internet shopping for a guitar try and make friends with someone who works for that company. I know with Sweetwater each customer is assigned to a sales "person" and keep the relationship good with them and you'll be doing fine. For example I deal with Josh Dillion from sweetwater and when the time comes that I order a Gibson Explorer, he said he'd personally look it over to make sure it had great playability before shipping out.... Now I do understand what feels great for one person might not feel that good for all but it's that little extra step that always helps.

What I'm also choked about is the cost of maintance stuff like strings! What is the going price for Boomers up here? 6-8 per pack? From Musicians Friend like 3.89, I know that may seem like nothing but when I place an order I usually order about 8 at a time. 

Moral of my story... prices here just are not worth paying.


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## MGP141 (Dec 2, 2007)

Living so close to the border, I know of two guitar stores in the Buffalo area that I am hoping to check out in the next few weeks.....a Guitar Center. which i hear regardless of location are rather nice compared to most music stores up here....and Jackson's Music Store or something...on Grand Island....both carry a great product line. 

What really made me pissed, was about a month ago when i bought my YCV40. I bought it in Barrie, because i was there, it was part impulse part not wanting to drive over the border. Had i gone to Jackson's, which is closer, it would have been cheaper for me to buy a CANADIAN MADE PRODUCT in the US...that I find ridiculous. 

anyways, im hoping to go over shortly to pick up a Strat. HWY ONE, or American im not sure....it will all come down to which I like the feel/sound of the most. but if i come back with one, i will let you know how my experience was.

MG


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## snoglobe (Jun 20, 2007)

I had a chance to get a couple guitars on a recent business trip to Houston.

I had called ahead to Guitar Center (what total bedlam... wow I would have to be severely medicated to work there) and tried to get one of those 57 Strat commemoratives with the gold hardware. But by then, they were all gone. So I asked if they had any of their 799 LP Jrs, or if they could get some in for me to look at. They were'nt able to scrounge one up, but they did have a Billy Joe Armstrong LP Jr with some (very minor, ridiculously minor) shop wear. That guitar used to sell for $1,895 in Edmonton, recently marked down to $1,495 to match the U.S. retailers (and it's true, I saw it in other places for that much). I got mine (sunburst, with the cheetah lined case) for 800 (plus 8.25% tax).

Also picked up a used Boss Super Feedbacker and Distortion for $49.

Then we went to Fuller's Vintage Guitars. Wow, great store! My buddy had called them about a LP Classic Antiquity with H-90s. It would have been over $2,400 in Edmonton (but he was told they couldn't even get one if he wanted) he got his for $1,899. And they didn't bother charging us tax due to our overwhelming Canadianess.

I also spied a consigned 2006 Fender Classic Player's Strat in sonic blue (not a scratch, not a mark, I even think it had the original 9's still on it) that came with me for $500 (again, no tax)

While, I would not normally do cross-border shopping, as it is too far to make it worthwhile. We were in Houston and made the most of it. Regardless of the exchange rate, I was coming home with a souvenir or two, it just worked out that it made for a sweet deal.

P.S. the Gibson Melody Makers look like crap. Thought I would like the finish. I don't. Couldn't get past it. Didn't even want to pick it up.


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## rocobar (Dec 9, 2007)

Buy makes so much sense across the border.
Not just Guitars.
Pretty much everything...


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

just to note, the price disparity is NOT the fault of the stores... canadian retailers operate on average (on big ticket items obviously, not straps and cables.. although strings there's not profit on either) at around 25% _margin_ (thanks to L&M), whereas american retailers operate at around 30%. if they get charged the same starting price, canadian guitars should end up being similarly priced (marginally higher), the extra 5% gets eaten up by shipping and duties pretty quickly... these are prices you'll pay crossing the border, if everything goes the way it's supposed to. the border guards though, often don't much care, so you're off the hook many times. if the guitar is vastly higher, it's usually the fault of the canadian distributor, who's got a whole pile of stock bought at the old dollar value, and they're trying to minimize their losses by screwing the canadian consumer. gibson sells directly to L&M, so they can respond very quickly to the changing dollar.. you'll see other gear come down now, and it should continue across the industry. 

when crossing the border, DO NOT EVER lie. if they ask, tell them what you bought, and if they instruct you to pay duty and GST on the item, go pay it. you should be able to apply for the duty back if it's an american made item, they'll provide you with information at the border. make no mistake, crossing the border is very serious business, and if they catch you in a lie (which they are extensively trained to do), they have the power to seriously make your life worse. they can (and will) sieze the goods and your car, and detain you for as long as they deem necessary. and there is not a damned thing you can do about it. they don't have to give it back, they don't have to apologize, and they don't EVER lose arguments. period. i crossed the border for a living the last three years, and that is the truth. you are not required to be forthcoming though, if they don't ask what you bought, you don't have to volunteer any info. most times, they just want to know if you have any fruit or tobacco or liquor. also note, if you're buying old instruments, brazilian rosewood and ebony and ivory are all covered by CITES legislation. if you buy a guitar with these items, i'd offer up the information at the border (and get a sales receipt with the year of the guitar on it), the consequences of being caught trying to smuggle controlled substances across the border are dire. you are allowed to bring old materials, so you can bring the guitar through, but do be as prepared as you can be.


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## JSD's Guitar Shack (Feb 24, 2006)

suttree said:


> gibson sells directly to L&M, so they can respond very quickly to the changing dollar...


L&M does not deal direct with Gibson, they are owned by Yorkville Sound which is the Canadian distributor for Gibson products so they can always have the lowest price, if they want to. Canadian dealers do not pay the same dealer cost on Gibson guitars as the dealers in the US do.

Distributors are pretty much still making the same profit while dealers are eating it big time to try to keep Canadians shopping in Canada.


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

JSD's Guitar Shack said:


> L&M does not deal direct with Gibson, they are owned by Yorkville Sound which is the Canadian distributor for Gibson products so they can always have the lowest price, if they want to. Canadian dealers do not pay the same dealer cost on Gibson guitars as the dealers in the US do.
> 
> Distributors are pretty much still making the same profit while dealers are eating it big time to try to keep Canadians shopping in Canada.


i'm sorry, am i hallucinating, or did we just say the same thing?


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

Go for it. Maybe it'll guve Canadian retailers a little motivation to give us some decent prices.


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## geckodog (Apr 9, 2007)

mod13 said:


> Yeah I have been looking at the LA Music site latey.
> 
> I am just a little shy of buying a guitar without trying it...I wonder when the Canadian stores are going to start passing on the savings they are enjoying with the at-par dollar??? If ever...



Places like Lamusic are only selling their stuff at about 10% above wholesale. So as a retailer you just can't compete with that. If you have any warranty issues are the online sites gonna take care of you? I highly doubt it.


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## dufe32 (Feb 5, 2007)

I bought my Washburn N4 upstate NY, Adirondack Guitars. I got a sweet deal, it was a nice one day trip and I would do it again without hesitation. I bought it last april, when our dollar was weaker than the US dollar, and guess what, I saved a lot of money. The guitar was on the back seat of the car, not hidden or anything. I went through customs and NOBODY asked me a damn question about it. I was ready to assume duties but they only asked me if I had bought alcohol, so there ya go.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Living in the Niagara Region it's very easy to hop the ditch for purchases. So far I have talked myself out of the process by focusing on buying used - primarily off fellow members. We've circulated some pretty good stuff for some reasonable prices here.

I also don't encourage cross-forum shopping :smile:


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## satim (Mar 23, 2006)

jroberts said:


> Why would you? It's not like there's someone at the border keeping track of what you bring in to the U.S. If you want to lie to save 6% (soon to be 5%) GST, go ahead and lie. An eleborate ruse isn't necessary.



No they don't keep track of what you bring in however you can take your chances and say you did not purchase anything. I just picked up an EVH Charvel and you may or may not depending on the customs official at the the border. I had the receipt made out for $600 and paid $86 in tax. I have got several guitars out of the states when coming back and this is for anything (camera,video games etc..)if they want to be pricks about you MUST declare it before heading into the states at CDN CUSTOMS they will issue you a little green card with the Brand of guitar, SN and quanity. BTW they can also look up the price and if it is too far fetched they will look into it much deeper i.e. I did not pay $600 for the EVH it was $1500 I did not think they would argue the price paid. I have heard horror stories about people bringing guitars back saying they only paid $100 some one at cutoms played guitar looked into it deeper and found out it was worth 10k and the guy had to come back the next day and buy it back at an auction:smilie_flagge17:


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## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

Most of the sccare stories are just that.

I bought a Larrivee from a reputable U.S. dealer. Landed it was about $800


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## Puffy_G (Nov 19, 2007)

> Places like Lamusic are only selling their stuff at about 10% above wholesale. So as a retailer you just can't compete with that. If you have any warranty issues are the online sites gonna take care of you? I highly doubt it.


LAMusic is a retail store in mississauga. It's in store prices are the same as on line, as well as being around the same as L&M and others in the area. There's even a competitor (Guitar Shop or something ) across the street from them.


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## skydigger (Oct 20, 2007)

Sorry, I didn't read the entire thread but...

I just bought 2 guitars from Rondo Music (online) in the states. When I processed my payment I was charged a $45 surcharge (on top of shipping charges) for shipping to Canada.

I assumed it was a collection for duties\taxes that would be charged at the border.

I just received a call from Fed Ex in B.C. looking for another $33 in fees???

I just emailed Kurt at Rondo to find out what the surcharge was for exactly.

EDIT: I just received a response from Kurt and he said Fed Ex should not be charging me anything as my assumption about the surcharge was correct. He also said he would straighten things out for me.


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