# Another Tonelab clip (lead tone)



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Here's an exerpt from our performance at The Brig for the Port Dover Friday the 13th show.

Those of you who gig, intend to gig or have gigged may find it amusing to note the transition from sitting at the piano to standing with the guitar and back again. It looks pretty straight forward, but one little fumble and it's a trainwreck.

Let me know what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5ioASzuUj0


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## SCREEM (Feb 2, 2006)

you pulled it off nicely, fumbles on stage are a nightmare things can go south so fast with everyone looking a each other with that "whats wrong" looks on their faces, during recovery

Nice lead and Tone Mike, the vid's sound recording is very good as well:food-smiley-004:


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

SCREEM said:


> you pulled it off nicely, fumbles on stage are a nightmare things can go south so fast with everyone looking a each other with that "whats wrong" looks on their faces, during recovery
> 
> Nice lead and Tone Mike, the vid's sound recording is very good as well:food-smiley-004:


Thanks Screem,

As you correctly noted, fumbles in a situation like that can lead to embarrasing results and can ruin a performance. It's just another element of performance that should be considered in my opinion.

A good show is the cumulative result of a thousand details.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Good co-ordination, and nice playing, there Milkman. If you could also throw in a tap dance I'd be *really* impressed! :banana: You also smile and look confident when playing the guitar solo. Thats something I struggle with - I'm always so focused on "not screwing up" that I dont look like I'm "connecting" with the audience. Good job.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

bagpipe said:


> Good co-ordination, and nice playing, there Milkman. If you could also throw in a tap dance I'd be *really* impressed! :banana: You also smile and look confident when playing the guitar solo. Thats something I struggle with - I'm always so focused on "not screwing up" that I dont look like I'm "connecting" with the audience. Good job.



Thanks man. I think few people realize how many balls you have to keep in the air when you're playing and singing at the same time. I'll probably have it nailed just in time to retire, LOL.

I guess if you were to analyze a simple task like walking, it would become quite a complex set of "steps" (pardon the pun). 

Now stop and think about changing effects with your feet, while playing guitar, and singing. I honestly don't mean to sound like I'm blowing my own horn, but how is ANYone able to do this? The brain is an amazing computer.


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## simescan (May 15, 2007)

Good job Milkman,...you were as busy as a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest.... ...Kidding aside, you made it look mighty smooth.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

simescan said:


> Good job Milkman,...you were as busy as a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest.... ...Kidding aside, you made it look mighty smooth.



Well, thanks. That's the goal, to make difficult things look easy. I do the same in another piano song(Pink Floyd's Nobody Home) and with other instrument combinations in other songs.

One concern I have is to keep it from looking like a novelty act. I don't want the audience to get the perception that it's some sort of Ed Sullivanesque juggling/dancing bear show. I still want it to be a rock and roll show.

We're trying to most efficiently utilize our abilities. We're only four guys and some songs call for more.


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2007)

Nice goin mon!








Especially with a crowd of bikers!
I'd like to check ya's out sometime.
Post us your next gig.


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

Nicely done... sounds great!

I"m really interested in picking up a tone lab to use for rehearsal, and for just bedroom practicing..

Just wish i could stop buying other stuff... hahah!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

laristotle said:


> Nice goin mon!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Man,

I'd say at least 50% of those "bikers" were acountants, teachers, shoe salesmen et cetera. Another 80% were more hardcore but still not members of your traditional "clubs". That leaves.....0.01% comprised of true blue bikers.

They were a fantastic audience though, that's for sure.


Next gig is at Willow Lake Park in Oakland, Ontario on Saturday, July 28.

My site will also show you where we are.
www.tmkb.com

Thanks for asking,


Mike
Thanks,


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

flashPUNK said:


> Nicely done... sounds great!
> 
> I"m really interested in picking up a tone lab to use for rehearsal, and for just bedroom practicing..
> 
> Just wish i could stop buying other stuff... hahah!



I hear you. I actually got rid of my conventional rig to buy the Tonelab. I'm not inclined to keep a lot of gear I don't expect to use.

The Tonelab LE suits me just fine.

Thanks for the comment!


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## noobcake (Mar 8, 2006)

Sounds great as usual milkman, what do you run the tonelab through? Straight into the PA or an amp?


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## esp_dsp (Feb 27, 2007)

nice man that friday the 13th was intense biggest one yet!! my band got a gig in the beer tent between the lighthouse theater and the other store not too many people where in there but hey it was fun.... what time where you in the brig? my dad and unlce where in and out of there all day.... friday 13th makes for great gigs though:rockon2: vid sounds good too! much better then my set lol


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

noobcake said:


> Sounds great as usual milkman, what do you run the tonelab through? Straight into the PA or an amp?


Thanks Cake,

I run direct to PA via a couple of active DIs and monitor my guitar with the floor wedges. We have two monitor mixes (four wedges) with 800 watts per mix.

This is how long it takes me to sound check my guitar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnrspOznzCo


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

esp_dsp said:


> nice man that friday the 13th was intense biggest one yet!! my band got a gig in the beer tent between the lighthouse theater and the other store not too many people where in there but hey it was fun.... what time where you in the brig? my dad and unlce where in and out of there all day.... friday 13th makes for great gigs though:rockon2: vid sounds good too! much better then my set lol


Yeah it was crazy. We played from 10:00 PM until 2:00 AM and it was as packed as packed can be.

Glad you had a ball too. It was one for the record books. I was doing sound all day and then played our three sets. Looooooong day, but a good one.

And thanks for watching.


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## GuitaristZ (Jan 26, 2007)

great tone man. Im looking forward to trying one of those things out


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

GuitaristZ said:


> great tone man. Im looking forward to trying one of those things out



Thanks a lot!

It's funny and kind of sad, but there's a lot of irrational resistance to these types of devices.

Personally I find them quite inspiring.


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## Cross (Jan 8, 2007)

Awesome tone from that, holy moly. Any idea what it might sound like through a head and cab? Also, are you using the Tonelab LE or the older model, the SE? Thanks in advance :smile:


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Cross said:


> Awesome tone from that, holy moly. Any idea what it might sound like through a head and cab? Also, are you using the Tonelab LE or the older model, the SE? Thanks in advance :smile:




Thanks very much. It's an LE, but I did use an SE for a year or so. I can't really qualify this statement, but my gut feeling is that the LE has better sounds. I know I like the slightly smaller size and the few features they eliminated from the SE were sort of nuisances to me anyway.

As for running it through a head and cab, that's probably the least desirable of ways to use these things. I would rank the set ups like this:

1. Direct to PA or recording console
2. Into a keyboard amp
3. In the return of a guitar amp's effects loop
4. Into the input of a guitar amp (with the amp and cabinet models disabled)

The thing is, these devices are designed to REPLACE your amp and pedals, not work with them. They're really not multi effects units per se.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> Cool version....
> 
> What I liked the most is how you obviously reference the guitar solo, (from the album track, NOT the 45 rpm single release), but don't cover it "note for note, lick for lick". I'm far more interested in hearing people create music, as opposed to recreating music.
> 
> ...


Well, that's an interesting observation Paul. I believe strongly in respecting the song in the sense of staying faithful to the harmonic, melodic and lyrical structures. I do take some liberties with arrangements and solos unless it's one of those solos that take on the element of being a composition unto themsleves.

To me these classic songs are every bit as deserving of respect as Bach's Brandenburg Concertos. Sounds a bit much I suppose, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I agree on Dover. Personally if I wasn't playing there I wouldn't have come within 20k of the place, but what a great crowd to play to!

Willow Lake will be cool. We'll bring the whole PA, but only a half dozen par 64 cans for lighting.

Thanks for checking out the clip.


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## Cross (Jan 8, 2007)

Thanks for the informative post Milkman - just one more question. You listed thirdly running the LE through the return of an amp's effects loop. Would you also suggest disabling the amp and cab modeling there too? Or does the amp and cab modeling become obsolete when you're running through an effects loop? Sorry, I'm completely green to the modeling aspect of things


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Cross said:


> Thanks for the informative post Milkman - just one more question. You listed thirdly running the LE through the return of an amp's effects loop. Would you also suggest disabling the amp and cab modeling there too? Or does the amp and cab modeling become obsolete when you're running through an effects loop? Sorry, I'm completely green to the modeling aspect of things


You're quite welcome

The manual says it's optional to bypass the cabinet model but I see no mention of the amp model in that section. There are specific output settings you select when running it in the effects return.

To be honest, I haven't tried the Tonelabs this way, but I did try a Pod XTLive in the effects return of a Marshall JCM900.

I would think the Tonelab would be a bit more to my liking, but I really wasn't thrilled with the XT /Marshall combination.


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

Vocals rocked, tone was decent. Not the biggest fan, but it's far from the worst I've heard from modelling gear. 

Yeah I used the XTL through a few Marshalls, Randalls and Peaveys and its not too good. Through my friends PA it sounded OK though. Bought the XTL for a gift for a friend and his parents ended up gettin' him the same thing, lol so now I use it for recording. The re-amping function is very cool. 

I don't know jack about PA systems, but what do they generally consist of? My step dad has one setup in the jam room but he's not home right now and I think he has the key... or I lost it . Never really took a good look at it, he did all the work hah. I might try and piece another one together from some spare gear laying around.

Rock on!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Well a PA can consist of a powered mixer and a couple of cabs, or it can be much more complex and powerful.


Mine is somewhere in between and is ever evolving. The next change will be an upgrade to a larger board with more features. I've completely maxed out my 22 channel Yorkville. I'm looking at a few 32 channel boards.

You think guitar gear is a money pit?


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

Holy damn lol just watched the video you have on there showin' the huge board.

So far I've found an insanely dusty AudioPro 508 mixer, 2 200 watt Yorkville 'Performance' Y115 speakers, 2 massive 1000 watt Yorkville 'Elite' E215 speakers and 2 unknown ones with 1 15 inch speaker in each (beat up pretty good). Gonna test all the speakers tomorrow... hopefully they still work. 

Thanks for the help.


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

Nice stuff Milkman. Yes going from one instrument to another without dropping the ball takes some talent and practise. Good on ya. I can barely go from one guitar to the other without some issues. Nice tone too. I've heard those tonelabs sound really good. I'd like to try one sometime. Do you go into an amp or straight into the board?

cheers
Pete


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

faracaster said:


> Nice stuff Milkman. Yes going from one instrument to another without dropping the ball takes some talent and practise. Good on ya. I can barely go from one guitar to the other without some issues. Nice tone too. I've heard those tonelabs sound really good. I'd like to try one sometime. Do you go into an amp or straight into the board?
> 
> cheers
> Pete


Thanks Man! I don't know about talent, but planning and practice for sure.

Straight to the board via two phantom powered DIs.

IMO it's how these things should be used for maximum accuracy.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

Very Cool!

I checked out the Supertramp stuff too. Excellent work.

I think you move between thinks smoothly enough to make it look natural. So, no worries about becoming a novelty act - I think...


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

dodgechargerfan said:


> Very Cool!
> 
> I checked out the Supertramp stuff too. Excellent work.
> 
> I think you move between thinks smoothly enough to make it look natural. So, no worries about becoming a novelty act - I think...


Thanks very much. I'm fortunate to have a very skilled keyboardist in the band or Supertramp wouldn't be possible. 

Co-incidentally I overheard my DRUMMER playing piano a fe months ago and he can really play. He ws doing The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway.

Go figure.


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## Midas (Dec 20, 2007)

WOW.. I've got the same vox tonelab le. 

I love the pedal and get complimented on my tone every time I use it live. I would say that it 99% of the presets can be used right away. No stupid effects that will never work just liquid rock and roll. 

I use mine with a 15 w carlsboro amp. Its my small rig. 

PS that console isn't that big compared to the large format boards(32ch+) I use such as soundcraft, midas, and allen and heath. You really don't need more than 24ch though if all you are doing is bar gigs. Today I was working with a 32 ch Allen and Heath but it was for a full on dinner show for abba.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Midas said:


> WOW.. I've got the same vox tonelab le.
> 
> I love the pedal and get complimented on my tone every time I use it live. I would say that it 99% of the presets can be used right away. No stupid effects that will never work just liquid rock and roll.
> 
> ...



I'm in the process of moving up to a larger board right now (32 X 4). With our four piece band I have completely maxed out the channels on the PM22 and have to comprimise on things like running the keyboards in stereo et cetera.

And that's with my drummer using a very small kit (four piece).

You may not need more than 24, but apparently I do, LOL. The size of the venue really has nothing to do with how many channels you need. How many cabs and how much power we throw at them is the only thing that varies from small rooms to big ones.

We have two keyboard players and I play some acoustic instruments, plus I run my Tonelab in stereo. We use a lot of channels but all for good reason.


I do love the Tonelab. I use it in a very simple way, not a lot of junk, and it does what I need it to do consistantly.


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## Midas (Dec 20, 2007)

I see what you mean. If you are going to use that many channels than go for a 32 ch. It sounds like you are pretty much set on Mackie but you should also at that point look at one that will allow for more aux sends. Try a 32 x 8 instead of a 32 x 4. You should invest in one that is over 3000 dollars to get one that is going to last. 

Also do yourself a favor and get a good road case for it i.e not a plastic one or a gig bag. try an EMG or Road Ready.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Midas said:


> I see what you mean. If you are going to use that many channels than go for a 32 ch. It sounds like you are pretty much set on Mackie but you should also at that point look at one that will allow for more aux sends. Try a 32 x 8 instead of a 32 x 4. You should invest in one that is over 3000 dollars to get one that is going to last.
> 
> Also do yourself a favor and get a good road case for it i.e not a plastic one or a gig bag. try an EMG or Road Ready.


Well I'm not necessarily set on the Mackie, but I have budgetary constraints and feature for feature the Mackie is so far the most competitive.

More than 6 aux sends? I have two monitor sends and one aux now. 6 is double what I have. 32 X 8 is just more sub groups which is really more than I need (I have NO sub groups now).

As for the case, I build good hardshell road cases for all my gear. I spent 11 years on the road in addition to about 20 doing local shows. I can buld a case for peanuts that is as good an an Anvil or Clydesdale.

This is the one I built for my current board.


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