# Wah before or after Fuzz / Drive?



## devnulljp

Where do you guys put your wah in the effects chain relative to fuzz and drive type pedals? I've always gone wah->fuzz->drive, but the other day I put the fuzz after the wah and I kinda like it. 
What say you all?

I find the wah kinda "tips" when it's before the fuzz...there's a definite point at which the tone changes rather than a slow sweep, whereas with the fuzz first you get a more extreme sweep. That's with a Vox V847, Dunlop crybaby, Area 51, Teese WoF, vintage Jen Crybaby...some with some without the impedance buffer...


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## Ti-Ron

Depend on my feelings, sometime I switch it, but I really love the sound of the Wah in first! Seem to me that there's more quack! I read somewhere that you have more than one wah so put one in front and one after your od/fuzz...problem solved!


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## devnulljp

Ti-Ron said:


> Depend on my feelings, sometime I switch it, but I really love the sound of the Wah in first! Seem to me that there's more quack! I read somewhere that you have more than one wah so put one in front and one after your od/fuzz...problem solved!


Last I looked I had three...maybe not a bad idea. An entirely wah board...


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## mhammer

An age-old question. Wah after distortion is subtractive synthesis. Wah before distortion is additive synthesis. Wah after distortion is more focussed sounding and loses more bottom. Wah before distortion is more vocal sounding and loses less bottom.

The same relationship exists between distortion and virtually any effect that has a filtering component (autowah, phaser, Uni-Vibe). As far as I'm concerned it is about time that pedal-makers started producing distortions in chassis that would accommodate a send/receive loop and an order-flipper switch that would let you situate that distortion ahead of OR after the device/s of your choice.


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## Fajah

My pedalboard is arranged wah>>drive (no seperate fuzz)>>octave>>tuner>>loop station. I'm using a Boss powered pedalboard and it's designed for the wah to go first in the chain.


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## hollowbody

I go Wah>Muff>some sort of 808 circuit pedal.


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## Guest

It depends on what I'm after. Sometimes I really like the subtle filter sweep sounds of a wah in the loop -- after all the drive stuff. And sometimes I really like the over-emphasized highs you get with a wah first in the chain. I have an example! On this track the filter-swept backing track has the wah in the loop, and the lead track has the wah in front of everything. I think I was using an FKR for overdrive on the lead track.

http://ian.coastpedalboards.com/sounds/superdelay/demo4.mp3

All this indecision is what's driving me to design a box that lets me change the place of my ModFactor in my chain, from in front of my amp to in my effects loop, with the push of a button.


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## Tin Type

when i did use wah.. it went before the muff into od... i liked being able to stack fuzz w/ overdrive and i found my wah and muff behaved better together in this order.


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## mhammer

Maybe its just me, or the amp or pickups I use, but I find there are some distortions that respond well to a wah, or even a guitar tone change, placed ahead of them, and others that seem to ignore the particulars of the signal you feed them. In some instances, you can change from neck to bridge or from tone wide open to full mute and you barely detect a change in the sound from the distortion. Similarly, in some cases you can wah your brains out, and the distortion registers that change in input signal as a marginally perceptible change in where the emphasis is.

I mention this because one can expect preferences and opinions to vary as a function of which distortion they are using. In some instances, *either* sequence (F->W or W->F) will produce an easily audible result, and the choice becomes one of aesthetic preferences (i.e., the kind of sonic change that order yields is one you like). In other instances, for whatever reasons (maybe source impedance sensitivity from the distortion), only one of the two choices is actually viable.


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## dolphinstreet

My fuzz wants to be first in the chain, but I usually prefer distortion after the wah.


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## LowWatt

My wah is in the middle. Most of my drive/fuzz before it, but I have a Dr. Scientist Frazz Dazzler (great weirdo fuzz that doesn't care where it sits in the chain) and a Solid Gold High Octane (cleanish boost) after it.


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## gregory49

If your wah has a fuzz buffer before. If you plan to use the wah with the fuzz alot ... after. Now if you still want to use the wah before which is what i like and recomend be prepaired this will change the sound of your fuzz pedal unless the wah is true bypass. Everything else goes after .. (OD, Boosts) IMO and you should try it all out for yourself.


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## Stevo

In my experience, it depends on the fuzz you are using. My MJM London II HAS to go after my wah, otherwise it sounds terrible. My MXR 108 sounds better before the wah.


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## devnulljp

Stevo said:


> In my experience, it depends on the fuzz you are using. My MJM London II HAS to go after my wah, otherwise it sounds terrible.


Is that a Si fuzz into an unbuffered wah? Do you get lots of odd howling if you put the wah first? An impedance buffer like the foxrox retrofit in the wah should fix that.


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## ezcomes

my setup is as follows...wah>DS-1>flanger>chorus>tuner...

i use the amp's lead channel for my dirty tone, and then use the DS-1 for a lead boost...but even then, i have used the wah for a lead...turn it on, tip it forward and use it as a treble boost to cut through...or for other parts where i want a fuzzier tone, i'll turn it on and roll it all the way back...at one point, the last time i had it off the board, i took it apart and rolled the bar a couple teeth up from where it was to get a little more treble...

but...i guess for this portion...i've always had the best luck, for my sound, with the wah before the distortion...


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## Robert1950

wah-drive fuzz


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## zurn

My fuzz (Sun face) has to be first in the chain or else it doesn't sound as good, germanium transistor based fuzz's are real picky that way. I can't even plug my tuner before it.


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## Lemmy Hangslong

wah is allways first in my effects chain... usually boost after that then time based stuff then finally my tuner.
I've tried different scenarios but this one allways sounds best to my ears anyways.
I also never put a way in teh effects loop... serial or parrallel does not matter... never.
I do like time based effects in teh loop but to keep things simple i allways put my effects into the front end of the amp.


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## Mooh

Guitar -> Wah -> Distortions

Wah before all distortions. Sometimes I put the MXR Boost/Line Driver before the wah, but right now I haven't room for it on the board.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Brennan

This is totally off topic, but I'm curious why so many people seem to have their tuner at or near the end of their chain. I would think you would want the cleanest sound possible going into your tuner, and throwing it at the end would require switching off every pedal each time you want to tune ... is there an advantage here that I'm not seeing?

Back on topic: I use amp distortion and keep my wah at the front of the chain. I don't use fuzz.


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## Salokin

I put My Sunface before the wah but not sure about the pig mine? Maybe after.
I would also add in the thread: Vibe before or after Fuzz?


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## zontar

Hmm, resurrected thread--
but I put a distortion before my Wah (Okay, it's an auto wah--Boss AW-3) and another after it.

That way I can have it either way--distorted wah or wahhed distortion--or both.


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## mhammer

One of the nice things about making your own pedals is that it is cheap and easy to have more than one of each thing. So I can have fuzz-wah-fuzz-autowah-fuzz if I want. Or phaser-fuzz-phaser. That lets you set up each in anticipation of whether the filtering is going to come before the distortion-generating point, or after.


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## zontar

Hmm, that makes it more tempting to give making my own pedals a try.


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## gearalley

you gotta try it a few different ways to see how it works with your own set up. I used to put my wah at the very front of the chain, but that doesn't work well with my current set up.


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## okgb

or like the slash wah , have an distortion box built into it
probably you have an overdrive ch on your amp anyway 
so i say dist before the wah , gives the wah more harmonic content
to work on [ or more even due to the clipping ]


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## old crow

dolphinstreet said:


> My fuzz wants to be first in the chain, but I usually prefer distortion after the wah.


I'm with you. btw I'm using an Ox Fuzz.


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## Milkman

Wah first no matter what.

Drive into fuzz or fuzz into drive doesn't matter to me because there's really no way I would use both at the same time.


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## Zurdo-USA

hi guys,
I'm new here but old with effects, started playing guitar in 1961 and by 1963 I was messing with Treble Boosters that were built by an electronics freak & guitarist that became one of the founders of Electro-Harmonix in NY! Had I only known....

my answer to the question here would be:

do you want to wah your fuzz? or do you want to fuzz your wah? It works both ways, and both ways have interesting results. Whatever you like better. one thing is certain: you will not blow up any of the effects by placing them in any order, so go ahead and experiment, the louder the better.

Zurdo


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## BRXM

I go: 
guitar into wah, into 3 distortions in a row, EQ, NoiseGate, Chorus, Delay, Sonic Maximizer, Holy Stain(for reverb) into amp. I think the type of wah makes a difference on where you should put it. I use an Ibanez Weeping Demon which is very adjustable, so it works everywhere you put it, I just prefer the sound of wah first. FYI, the Weeping Demon is the first wah pedal I have ever owned that lasted longer than 2 weeks in my lineup. The rest were just too limited in their sound to stay for long.


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## Rahlstin

Guitar > Wah > Bad Monkey


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## ThePass

Boss tuner ~ wah ~ Boss GE-7 EQ ~ Jekell & Hyde ~ delay ~ chorus ~ amp.


Tuner first as I also use it as a "mute" between songs live. EQ just as a boost for solo's.


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## pi39

I put my tuner first also. 
Boss Tuner, Wah, Fuzz, Fuzz, KOT


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## ThePass

Maybe I'm wrong but I go Tuner > Wah > Drive > Delay > Chorus > amp.


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## Milkman

I don't use fuzz. I've tried a couple and they sound cool by themselves but in the context of a band I find they really tend to get lost in the mix.

Currently I go wireless - delay - chorus or flange - overdrive, and distortions - rotary effect - amp.


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## seanmj

Just fooling around with this myself. I haven't been using my fuzz much as of late... as it always seems to harsh for some reason. Then I tried putting it before my wah... and the problem seems to be solved. I read recently that my wah (Bad Horsie II) has a buffer in it... so I think the germo London Fuzz didn't like being after it.

Sean Meredith-Jones
www.seanmeredithjones.com


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## Roybruno92

I've found you need to switch stuff around to find a good sound. My germanium fuzzes(Fuzz Factory and BC SuperFuzz) need to be placed before everything(thus the wah). When placing these after the wah, I was getting slushy results and weird inteference noises; although they could sound cool if I played in Godspeed; but i don't . I have a EQD Hoof that sounds crazy awesome after the wah; great for leads. My V1 jekkyl and hyde sounds awesome after the wah, but that is the general conclusion ive come to with ODs and distortion boxes.


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## jimihendrix

Here's a pedal designed to switch pedal orders on the fly...aptly named the "Flip Flop"...

[video=youtube;xQxAyY_HPLw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQxAyY_HPLw&amp;feature=related[/video]


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## TWRC

I've always used a lower drive or boost pedal before the wah for those treadle down moments just to add a bit of flavour, but I always run my higher gain pedals after my wah. I currently have 2 fuzz pedals in the mix and I get some crazy oscillating when using a wah with them, so I'm thinking of either building a buffer (would love to see a breadboard layout for one because I'm no good at reading schematics - wink wink, nudge nudge) or picking up one of those Foxrox wah buffers.

My current pedalboard: Whammy IV > Retro-Sonic Preamp Boost > Vox 847 Wah (with vocal and inductor mods) > Maxon OD-9 > Stomp Under Foot Screaming Panda Distortion > Big Muff V4 > Malekko Omicron Fuzz > Boss GE-7 > Boss DD-7 > Line 6 Verbzilla


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## sulphur

I tried this tonight and found that my VFE Fiery Red Horse sounds better (to me)
before the wah. It seems smoother that way and a little harsher when positioned after.


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## mhammer

jimihendrix said:


> Here's a pedal designed to switch pedal orders on the fly...aptly named the "Flip Flop"...
> 
> [video=youtube;xQxAyY_HPLw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQxAyY_HPLw&amp;feature=related[/video]


This is precisely what I have been arguing for. Glad to see someone has done it. And as you can see, being able to flip without having to rewire/repatch a pedalboard is a godsend.


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## ledfloyd

Most vintage design type fuzzes should be first in your chain because they want to see the high impedance signal from the guitar's pickups. When the wah is first it may be sennding a buffered and/or low(er) impedance signal to the fuzz which they don't like.


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## closetmonster.

I have played around with my setup endlessly trying to get the order of these effects right.

For now I've settled on Fuzz>Wah>Compressor>Clean Boost>OD

Previously, I have put my Compressor after ALL of my dirt pedals, but realized that was putting a large damper on the real sound of my overdrive. 

I prefer to have the fuzz before the wah because when I use them together it seems to create a more natural breakup and feedback.

As for having the compresser after the two, I use an Ibanez CP10 which has a built in sustainer, and it gives me some seriously creamy lead tones.


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## BEMUSofNrthAmra

i guess it depends on whether you want to wah the fuzz or fuzz the wah, am i right or am i right?


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## zontar

BEMUSofNrthAmra said:


> i guess it depends on whether you want to wah the fuzz or fuzz the wah, am i right or am i right?


That's why I have a distortion pedal on both sides of my Wah--(Okay I use a Dynamic Wah--but same idea...)


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## mhammer

I made myself a dual loop selector earlier this year. After some thought, and discovering just how many 3PDT and 4PDT toggles I had in my parts bin, I think I'm going to install an order-flipper switch in my loop selector, so that loop A can go before loop B or after it. And whatever goes into each loop, be it compressor, wah, fuzz, phaser, EQ, etc., can be free to modify something else, or BE modified by something else, with no requirement to be moved from it's location on a pedalboard, or repatched, in order to accomplish the flipping.

I'm surprised that places like Road Rage haven't already started making order-flipping a feature in their loop-selectors. Doesn't have to be applicable to every loop in the unit, but as long as there are two or more loops to select from, and toggled order-flipping for two of those loops, you're in good shape.


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## RobQ

I put an overdrive before my wah, but also often use the dirty channel of the amp after the wah.

So both.


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