# Rhythm - It's Ok, hate away!!



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

So, I figure since I have enough habit of creating threads that make people want to take my head off I might as well stick my neck out on this one. No one else was steppin' up 

Where do you get your rhythm and how?? Back beat, off beat, on beat, something inbetween??

Tempo is easy, that comes from the little swingy thing that goes tick, tick, tick, tock, tick, tick, tick, tock. 

But the heart of any music is the rhythm, can you even learn rhythm? are you born with it? Can you inject tiger blood and get more of it. Who knows... but I would be willing to try. 

I remember a long long time ago, playing with a good friend of mine she exclaimed "you have the worst rhythm" to which I responded you just don't know the meter.... we aren't friends anymore. I am not sure it is related.

Back on point thought, what drives your rhythm?


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Some thought from a master of stringed instruments


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Rhythm, meter, feel, groove...... all related, but not identical. Count Basie's bands swung harder than any other, in small group jazz Oscar Peterson is the Bobby Orr of swing.

The thing, to me, with swing and groove, is that whoever is swinging or grooving needs something to swing or groove against. Oscar could play a solid, complicated walking bass in the left hand, and swing like a mofo with his right hand, constantly changing the feel/groove as he went along.

This is as good as Rick Beato hypes it up to be:


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Brunz said:


> No one else was steppin' up


Thanks for "steppin' up" and starting this thread. I was going to if no one else did. 



Brunz said:


> Where do you get your rhythm and how?? Back beat, off beat, on beat, something in between??


I think that could vary (to a reasonable extent) and will be dependant on many factors.



Brunz said:


> But the heart of any music is the rhythm, can you even learn rhythm? are you born with it?


I certainly hope rhythm can be learned as I swear I was born somewhat arhythmic.
My difficulty is maintaining rhythm and/or recovering if I "break" rhythm.

My interest is learning the best ways to understand and improve rhythm(s)


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Paul M said:


> Rhythm, meter, feel, groove...... all related, but not identical. Count Basie's bands swung harder than any other, in small group jazz Oscar Peterson is the Bobby Orr of swing.
> 
> The thing, to me, with swing and groove, is that whoever is swinging or grooving needs something to swing or groove against. Oscar could play a solid, complicated walking bass in the left hand, and swing like a mofo with his right hand, constantly changing the feel/groove as he went along.
> 
> This is as good as Rick Beato hypes it up to be:


Amazing!!
The way he changes the tempo and timing is bloody intense, so smooth. I am blown away and appreciate having heard that. Thanks!



greco said:


> My interest is learning the best ways to understand and improve rhythm(s)


To learn a rhythm, or rhythms I suppose.... would be to understand the tempo and the meter first and foremost. That part is easy. How the hell to even begin to explain rhythm, lord help me I cannot do it. Hopefully someone can. I mean, we can all hear it, I am positive most of us can emulate it, probable most of use can create it.... but how to explain the how is hard.

I mean, that or you could just Morse Code everything you write


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## NotFromToronto (Dec 10, 2009)

I do think it's skill. And like all skills there are people that have a more natural affinity to do it. I'm not sure which I am, because while I came to guitar rather late I have been playing music most of my life.

So for whatever it's worth... If I were being flippant I'd say I just get a feel for the rhythm and then pay in sync with that feeling. But I realize that's not overly helpful. The 'feel' that I get probably translates better to hearing the rhythm in my head, which I assume can be trained by just listening to a lot of music of various rhythms.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Yeah, I don’t know where I get it because my music education started very young. I have observed however that seemingly unrhythmic people can often be taught rhythm. It’s just a logical progression of lessons that combine the auditory and the physical with support from visual help.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

greco said:


> My difficulty is maintaining rhythm and/or recovering if I "break" rhythm.


This is by far my weakest skill as a musician. When I was playing guitar I could simply stop playing then start again. Playing bass it is very obvious when you stop playing. With a bass it seems harder to find the pocket when you lose it. For me the key to rhythm is a good drummer. Our drummer has a great feel for when someone is out of the pocket and somehow does something that gets them back in the pocket.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Paul M said:


> The thing, to me, with swing and groove, is that whoever is swinging or grooving needs something to swing or groove against.


Please reassure me that I can't possibly swing and/or groove against a metronome. 
Mrs. Greco hates the metronome more than my arhythmic, off key and often slightly sour notes.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Paul M said:


> Rhythm, meter, feel, groove...... all related, but not identical. Count Basie's bands swung harder than any other, in small group jazz Oscar Peterson is the Bobby Orr of swing.
> 
> The thing, to me, with swing and groove, is that whoever is swinging or grooving needs something to swing or groove against. Oscar could play a solid, complicated walking bass in the left hand, and swing like a mofo with his right hand, constantly changing the feel/groove as he went along.
> 
> This is as good as Rick Beato hypes it up to be:


I would argue, only for arguments sake, that perhaps this is the greatest solo ever written, I have included about 45 seconds of pre-solo time, due to the fact that without context, it is nothing.






I would also like to state, I despise the Dave Matthews band, but him and Tim are phenomenal.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Mooh said:


> ....with support from visual help.


@Mooh Could you please expand a bit on what would be the best form(s) of visual help. Thanks


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

this concept is fun, and might be foreign to some/most.


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## DrumBob (Aug 17, 2014)

I have been told I have a built-in natural sense of time and tempo. It seems that's true, and it's a God-given gift. I started banging on paint cans, tables and chairs at age seven, drum lessons at fourteen, and playing in bands at 15. I worked with a drum machine and click track for about two years in the late '80's off and on to develop my timekeeping. I also gave up smoking weed, and that was a big help also. 

I think good time can be developed if you are deficient, but it sure helps to be born with some sense of rhythm. I always think of the scenes in _Mr. Holland's Opus_ with Richard Dreyfus, where he works hard with a black kid who has no rhythm at all, and helps him improve.


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

it is essential to have a pulse and a steady heartbeat...maybe a pacemaker


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

DrumBob said:


> I have been told I have a built-in natural sense of time and tempo. It seems that's true, and it's a God-given gift. I started banging on paint cans, tables and chairs at age seven, drum lessons at fourteen, and playing in bands at 15. I worked with a drum machine and click track for about two years in the late '80's off and on to develop my timekeeping. I also gave up smoking weed, and that was a big help also.
> 
> I think good time can be developed if you are deficient, but it sure helps to be born with some sense of rhythm. I always think of the scenes in _Mr. Holland's Opus_ with Richard Dreyfus, where he works hard with a black kid who has no rhythm at all, and helps him improve.


It depends on what weed.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Here are two versions of the same song sung by the same person. One has a very tight feel, the second has a much looser feel. Neither is incompetent, just different. No drums in the second but I'm not sure that's it.


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## Permanent Waves (Jun 2, 2020)

I think meter and rhythm are two different parts of the same equation, but it is possible to have one and not the other. I think you can improve your meter (tempo) with practice. I think rhythm is a different thing, it's knowing exactly where in the measure or on the beat you are. I have known great shredders who just couldn't put the notes in the right spot. That can also be improved with practice, but it's harder in my opinion. You're in the pocket or you're not, and being out of the pocket is a little like being stupid - everyone notices except you . Feel and groove are more subtle and related to dynamics - I think those are things you are born with. 

I picked up drums a few years after guitar and discovered something - I have no meter. Playing drums helped me a bit to develop meter, but not as much as having a solid drummer in the band. When there's parts in songs when the drums go out, and I always start rushing the tempo (pun intended). I had a few drummers give me some insistent hi-hat "chicks" to try to pull me in line in those parts, but it wasn't as bad as that scene in "Whiplash".  If you have not seen it. check it out. 

If it's any consolation, these challenges are universal. I spent years deconstructing Rush's music and despite what many folks would say, they also struggle with meter in their earlier performances. Lifeson goes off like a rocket on the intro of "Bastille Day" on "All The World's A Stage" or "Freewill" on "Exit Stage Left", until Neil pulls him back. You hear similar issues when the drums stops on songs like "Beneath Between & Behind", or the choruses for "Xanadu" on ESL. However, I was always astonished how solid their performance were in the latter part of their career (R30-R40).


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

One old trick is taking away beats from the metronome. That will help develop your internal meter. That, combined with slowing the BPM down really helps.

For example, in 4/4 time, if you've got the metronome set for 100 BPM with a quarternote on every click, take it down to 50 BPM and treat each click as either beats 1 and 3 or 2 and 4. I like 2 and 4 because it feels like a snare. It also helps with developing a swing feel. You can also drop it down to 25 BPM with a single click on any of the beats. I like to use beat 4.

The other tool is simply dropping the tempo down. If I have the click on beats 2 and 4 and drop it down to 40 BPM, that's a hell of a lot of space between clicks. (40 BPM is probably the limit for most people.) If you can nail your stuff at that slow tempo, your internal meter will improve dramatically. And I mean _nail_ it-- bury the click, be on top of it, so you almost can't hear it. I did that a lot with 16th note funk playing.

Thing is, like your chops, you gotta keep it up. I haven't worked on my funk in a while, so I'm not nearly as tight as I used to be. But it wouldn't take long to build it back up again.

You can use these metronome tricks for practicing anything. Work through songs, comping and improvising through jazz standards, technique work, scales & arpeggios, you name it.

The craziest thing is when you work on this stuff, you can totally tell when people are rushing or dragging. Even the slightest little bit. But it's all good, because you can consciously decide how you want to shift.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

greco said:


> Please reassure me that I can't possibly swing and/or groove against a metronome.


Whatever helps you sleep at night. 😁 

@greco challenged me to start this thread, but @Brunz beat me to it.

Here is my Rhythm Playlist:


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0-Cj4Qi8ZQZyQvDd2F1GPJ4aFMk7X2eA



It is by no means exhaustive, and I can think of a couple of excellent videos that are missing, including one with Victor Wooten shilling a Korg metronome and another with Carol Kaye saying "You have to make the metronome groove".

And yes, rhythm in all it's forms can be learned.

Victor Wooten's book, "The Music Lesson" has some of the greatest writing on the subject that I have ever read.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

greco said:


> @Mooh Could you please expand a bit on what would be the best form(s) of visual help. Thanks


I'm pretty old school when it comes to this. Nobody yet has shown me a better way than written rhythm and a human being to illustrate and call the beats. The initial trick is to remove distractions in the music, no lyrics, chord names or notes, dynamics, etc, and only add them when the student can process more at a time. On muted string(s) I have the student strum or pick the simplest whole note rhythm, then work their way up to shorter notes, then some combinations of lengths of notes. When they are ready, they play along with me, then with me and a recording, then with a recording, and finally on their own. It's a gradual process, one shouldn't assume it's possible to immediately play complicated rhythms. Start with nursery rhymes and work your way up to gypsy jazz. There's no instant gratification.

[Aside: It's my fervent belief that if preschoolers to grade 2s were taught to see and play rhythms, half their later musical difficulties would be solved, and their teachers concerns with them.]

Here are a couple of example sheets I use, but they have to be introduced slowly, and they are intended to be used in conjunction with an instructor. Treat each measure as a complete exercise to be repeated, I left out repeat signs in favour of double bar lines to declutter the page, and marked each example with its own rehearsal mark (the bold capital letters in boxes).


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Thanks for posting this question. It's one of those things that is not emphasized as much as it should be specially when it comes to playing with other people like in a band setting. I don't even think about it when I am playing as I feel it's something that's just there. And I always thought its something you either have or not have and cannot be learned. I probably learned it over the years trying to play every song I can imagine and learning at the same time how to accompany someone singing.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Great thread @Brunz ! 
Many thanks for all the detailed responses. 
It is reassuring to read that rhythm causes significant issues for others. "Misery loves company" sort of thing..LOL!


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Mooh said:


> I'm pretty old school when it comes to this. Nobody yet has shown me a better way than written rhythm and a human being to illustrate and call the beats. The initial trick is to remove distractions in the music, no lyrics, chord names or notes, dynamics, etc, and only add them when the student can process more at a time. On muted string(s) I have the student strum or pick the simplest whole note rhythm, then work their way up to shorter notes, then some combinations of lengths of notes. When they are ready, they play along with me, then with me and a recording, then with a recording, and finally on their own. It's a gradual process, one shouldn't assume it's possible to immediately play complicated rhythms. Start with nursery rhymes and work your way up to gypsy jazz. There's no instant gratification.
> 
> [Aside: It's my fervent belief that if preschoolers to grade 2s were taught to see and play rhythms, half their later musical difficulties would be solved, and their teachers concerns with them.]
> 
> ...


Where were you when I was fourteen taking lessons  This is amazing. I think it would be hard to keep a teenager engaged but wow if they were this would install a great sense of rhythm. No disrespect to the teacher I had at fourteen. He was an awesome jazz player but he concentrated on theory and sight reading.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I am rarely playing lately so my rhythm is probably to the point where I couldn't masterbate. After a bit of practice I seem to get the groove alright though. I did DJ back in the '80's and danced a lot, so beat matching 2 different songs to fade from one to another was a skill I had back then.


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## DrumBob (Aug 17, 2014)

Permanent Waves said:


> I think meter and rhythm are two different parts of the same equation, but it is possible to have one and not the other. I think you can improve your meter (tempo) with practice. I think rhythm is a different thing, it's knowing exactly where in the measure or on the beat you are.


One very valuable takeaway from working with a click track was, I always know where the "one" is. I practiced simple fills as well as time, and it got so I always landed on "one" right in time with the click.


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

In recent years I’ve been thinking about innate rhythmic ability, after watching my toddlers instinctively develop their rhythm sense, from moving their bodies to music, and transitioning into using the toy instruments we keep handy, then into singing and now plucking away at burner guitars I keep out for them. It’s been a very interesting progression to observe, from toddle age to school age. I think we are born with a natural inclination to find and interact with beats and the fluidity of music, but how we channel that and cultivate that ability as we develop and become more familiar with it, is where I think as a humans we split down the path of those who enjoy music as a listening experience, to interact with it as a physical experience (dance) or those who choose to use it in a different direction by making music.

In my own personal development, I was primarily a noolder, and while I was was having fun, I knew my sense of rhythm and timing needed a ton of work if I was to play with people again, so I worked with a metronome and it didn’t go well, it bored the hell out me. I stumbled into getting the Digitech SDrum, and it’s really been the best musical purchase I’ve ever made. My favourite exercise is to hammer out a beat, any beat, and then challenge myself to play along with it (rhythm or lead) and see how long I can ride the wave before falling off. If I’m getting comfortable, I can change the tempo on the fly and force myself to adjust, or just zero it and make a new beat track. It’s really helped me develop my timing and my sense of where to play and what “fits”. I add in a looper and it’s really like playing with a very patient band who don’t get tired of me trying new things and finding my groove lol.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I would like to point out.... this thread was not at all my idea, I just got impatient  I don't generally have good ideas.

I find learning rhythms is easy, especially off sheet. I might not have a bloody clue how to read sheet for guitar but I know what the rhythm is. I was lucky to be classically trained musically, unlucky because like an idiot I let a lot of it lapse but the fundamentals are still there.

I suppose like anything it is just a lot of hard practice to be polished with timing and tempo, as for rhythm, well I equate that more to a feeling and prefer to call if groove... 

I have recently started playing with a metronome during my nightly noodle sessions and I remember a few weeks back recording a track and thinking geeze, I wonder if I can double it. My previous attempts were atrocious abominations because nothing was in time with the tempo it was recorded at. Well I just about fell over when I managed to double my playing and looking at the waveform you could see it was practically exact. That was a wake up call.
Now I lay everything over a metronome, or at least the first track in a song or jam and splicing became a whole lot easier too.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Brunz said:


> I would like to point out.... this thread was not at all my idea, I just got impatient  I don't generally have good ideas.
> 
> I find learning rhythms is easy, especially off sheet. I might not have a bloody clue how to read sheet for guitar but I know what the rhythm is. I was lucky to be classically trained musically, unlucky because like an idiot I let a lot of it lapse but the fundamentals are still there.
> 
> ...


I find it hard to play to a metronome when recording. I usually play to a simple drum track which gets deleted later.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Something I haven’t really noticed mentioned yet is….you need to identify where the stresses are. Quite often, one particular beat will have emphasis, much like language. Identifying and reproducing the location of the stresses is a HUGE part of overall rhythm.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Also instead of a metronome, get a Beat Buddy! Much more fun to play along to.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I wouldn't argue that drum loops are a lot more fun, but there is a fundamentalism that can be found in just the count that I think should not be overlooked.

You can't benefit from "reading" a metronome like you can a drum rhythm.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Brunz said:


> I wouldn't argue that drum loops are a lot more fun, but there is a fundamentalism that can be found in just the count that I think should not be overlooked.
> 
> You can't benefit from "reading" a metronome like you can a drum rhythm.


I agree. Its harder to play along with a metronome than a drum track.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

I tend to tap my foot.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

laristotle said:


> I tend to tap my foot.


Tap a keg instead.
It won't help your playing, but you won't care.


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

DrumBob said:


> One very valuable takeaway from working with a click track was, I always know where the "one" is. I practiced simple fills as well as time, and it got so I always landed on "one" right in time with the click.


One great use of a metronome for learning to play in consistent time, is to set the click for 1 beat per bar. Practice scales, or whatever it is you want to practice with the click on the "1". Then do it all again with the click on the "2". Repeat with the click on the "3", then on the "4". Skip the "4" if you are learning a waltz.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Paul M said:


> One great use of a metronome for learning to play in consistent time, is to set the click for 1 beat per bar. Practice scales, or whatever it is you want to practice with the click on the "1". Then do it all again with the click on the "2". Repeat with the click on the "3", then on the "4". Skip the "4" if you are learning a waltz.


Or as Dr. Groove suggests (at around 6:15), the "e" of 1-e-an-a:





(Found it.)


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

bw66 said:


> Or as Dr. Groove suggests (at around 6:15), the "e" of 1-e-an-a:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think he uses a metronome... he is lying 
Oh wait....... he said his goal is to wean himself off the metronome.

Had to edit this, he is cheating, blatantly. His head is bopping more solid than that old Korg ever could.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

And here is the bit from Carol Kaye (the whole thing is worth watching, but the bit I was referring to starts at 10:00):






Edit: Looks like this one won't embed - you need to go to YouTube.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

...nevermind


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

checkout Konnakol (Indian music theory) if you would like to internalize and count compound rhythms of any complexity.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Mutant_Guitar said:


> checkout Konnakol (Indian music theory) if you would like to internalize and count compound rhythms of any complexity.


I like it!!
Now I must go learn more. I just found a picture outlining the phrasing 1-10 and that is enough to have me sold


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

Brunz said:


> I like it!!
> Now I must go learn more. I just found a picture outlining the phrasing 1-10 and that is enough to have me sold


I posted a video on page one. Might be right up your alley, Ia Eklundh explains it very well because it has been a foundation of his style/technique for almost 3 decades. Eklundh is an AC/DC loving swedish metal man....you can also find him "djent"-ing with a complimentary hotel hair-comb.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Mutant_Guitar said:


> I posted a video on page one. Might be right up your alley, Ia Eklundh explains it very well because it has been a foundation of his style/technique for almost 3 decades. Eklundh is an AC/DC loving swedish metal man....you can also find him "djent"-ing with a complimentary hotel hair-comb.


I have to admit, I watched a bit of that but without the context and my flippant clicking through it, him mumbling thaka-tiki-something something in his Swedish accented English did not do a lot for me. I will have to go back and give it another go. A serious attempt this time.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

John McLaughlin did a series on Konokol years ago called Gateway to Rhythm.

Here's a sample:


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

There goes Johnny Mac the aristocrat. I get the sense that while he's talking he's also looking out the window at his yacht floating on the French Riviera, wondering how many Fabergé eggs he's gonna drunkenly sit on by nightfall.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)




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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

I just spent 30 minutes attempting to play a G major scale, 1 octave, with a metronome. 

I suck.

That is all.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I know this pain my friend, I know it well.

Its crazy how we can do so much but then you challenge yourself to something so mundane and it hurts so bad 

My metronome is my worst enemy, but he makes me a better person... so I let him stay.


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

The Metro Gnome


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

Practice guitar for hours each day. Do that for years on end and one day you will make it look so easy that people who have never done any of that will say that you were blessed with talent.

Rhythm. Never studied it, don't know anything about, can't explain it but I know that I've got it. Can it be learned? I think it's like this. I grew up back in the 50's in a family that made their living running a school of ballroom dance and I could do the Samba, Mambo, Cha Cha, Waltz and Jitterbug right around the time I learned to ride a bicycle. When other kids were playing baseball I was in the studio listening to 40's big bands and Latin combos. Later when I first picked up the guitar the rhythm was already there and people assumed that I was born with it but I've come to realize that's not so. I did have to learn it but it was learned organically and at such an early age that I didn't even know that I had done it. So yes I do believe that rhythm can be learned but I also believe that the older we get the more difficult it is to achieve.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Lars doesn't need a metronome, he plays faster than human comprehension so no one notices


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

This is how I make practice fun: jamming with tapes©. This HAS to help your rhythm.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Doug Gifford said:


> This is how I make practice fun: jamming with tapes©. This HAS to help your rhythm.


That is a fun rhythm, the back beat on the bass it stellar.


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## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

Paul M said:


> I just spent 30 minutes attempting to play a G major scale, 1 octave, with a metronome.
> 
> I suck.
> 
> That is all.


Try subdividing the time between the beats.... thinking 1 and 2 and 3 and... or 1and a 2 and a 3 and a ...... or 1 e and a 2 e and a 3 e and a .....
Similar concept to counting steamboats or Mississippi when playing schoolyard football.
Things get interesting when you shift a note or chord to fall on a subdivision before or after a beat


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

cbg1 said:


> Try subdividing the time between the beats.... thinking 1 and 2 and 3 and... or 1and a 2 and a 3 and a ...... or 1 e and a 2 e and a 3 e and a .....
> Similar concept to counting steamboats or Mississippi when playing schoolyard football.
> Things get interesting when you shift a note or chord to fall on a subdivision before or after a beat



Trust me, I _know_ all that, I just can't _do_ all that. It had been a long time since I had put a battery in the metronome. I was humbled by how bad my sense of time is. We don't have a woodshed, so when it warms up I'll gazebo it.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I started playing bass in a band a few months ago. I thought I was getting pretty good at the rhythm thing. Then the band decided they wanted to play Miss You. I still have a long ways to go  It'll be a while before I can do this.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

IME, rhythm comes from the body you have to feel it. Like anything else in music I believe it's something you internalize by listening a lot and repeatedly failing at it until it somewhat sounds good.


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## Jonathan (Dec 30, 2016)

Victor Wooten's book, "The Music Lesson" has some of the greatest writing on the subject that I have ever read.
[/QUOTE]

+1 This book is incredible. I've just read it this past month or so. Its not so much a technical instructional method book, but certainly in an inspiring mystical book on life and music. Very cool. Not at all what I expected.


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## Jonathan (Dec 30, 2016)

I've been keen to check this book out (and the others in the series): The Rhythm Book - Beginning Notation and Sight-Reading for All Instruments - Music Instruction

There is a review of the book here: The Rhythm Book-Beginning Notation and SightReading by Rory Stuart Review

Another tool I use is an app called Drum Genius when I get tired of the metronome. It has tonnes of awesome drum samples from famous tunes in lots of genres and you can adjust the tempos to a certain extent. 

Here's an exercise I've used. I stole the wording from the Yamaha website, but I use this and variations on this alone and with with a band. We called it "trading solos with the room". The whole band would go silent for a bar and then we would try to come back in together:

*Create subtractive loops or patterns*

– Program a loop into a sequencer program (such as GarageBand or Cubase, etc.) and create a 4-bar loop. On the fourth bar, instead of having a measure of groove, leave it blank.

– Next, practice with two bars of groove and then two bars of space.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Grab n Go said:


> One old trick is taking away beats from the metronome. That will help develop your internal meter. That, combined with slowing the BPM down really helps.
> 
> For example, in 4/4 time, if you've got the metronome set for 100 BPM with a quarternote on every click, take it down to 50 BPM and treat each click as either beats 1 and 3 or 2 and 4. I like 2 and 4 because it feels like a snare. It also helps with developing a swing feel. You can also drop it down to 25 BPM with a single click on any of the beats. I like to use beat 4.
> 
> ...


This is great


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Kerry Brown said:


> I started playing bass in a band a few months ago. I thought I was getting pretty good at the rhythm thing. Then the band decided they wanted to play Miss You. I still have a long ways to go  It'll be a while before I can do this.


We played Miss You in a (now defunct) band. 

We had an exceptional Bass player. I do not think it would have been possible without him. He also had the best singing voice, although he did not do the Stones stuff. 

Me and the other guitar player used to joke. "Out of the 5 of us, he's 7/8 of the band"


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