# am i ready for a computer-based setup?



## david henman

...i've been using "portastudio" formats until now. currently i have a korg d3200.

i have avoided upgrading to a computer-based system, because the gap between a simple "bedroom" set up for one guy with a mic and a guitar, and that of a band guy (me) who needs to record at least twelve tracks simultaneously, has been far too wide.

what i would like to have is a simple tower/monitor/keyboard mouse set up, along with a sixteen channel preamp/interface.

in other words, no outboard mixer. i'm assuming all of that can be achieved on the computer.

any advice, suggestions?


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## Guest

David, maybe a good question would be: how is the D3200 falling short for your need now?

What you're asking for can certainly be done with a computer-based DAW setup. But how you dive in to this is going to depend on how your workflow isn't working for you now IMO.


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## mrmatt1972

Reaper and a nice interface (USB 2.0 or firewire depending on your computer's inputs) is all you need. The size of the interface is dictated by the number of inputs you need. I'm just a yokle who does guitar/vocals and a few overdubs, so i only use a 2 channel interface. Sounds like you'll need 1 or 2 of something like this: TASCAM US-1800 USB 2.0 Audio/MIDI Interface: Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

There are also USB mixers available if you wanted to pre eq.

Reaper is great because there are tonnes of helpful video tutorials and a strong forum for support. It's also free to try for a month, and the license is inexpensive too.


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## david henman

mrmatt1972 said:


> Reaper and a nice interface (USB 2.0 or firewire depending on your computer's inputs) is all you need. The size of the interface is dictated by the number of inputs you need. I'm just a yokle who does guitar/vocals and a few overdubs, so i only use a 2 channel interface. Sounds like you'll need 1 or 2 of something like this: TASCAM US-1800 USB 2.0 Audio/MIDI Interface: Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend
> There are also USB mixers available if you wanted to pre eq.
> Reaper is great because there are tonnes of helpful video tutorials and a strong forum for support. It's also free to try for a month, and the license is inexpensive too.


...i rarely touch buttons or knobs. no interest in eq, effects, modelling etc etc etc, or time to pursue them. basic editing would be helpful, but essentially i am only interested in recording raw tracks and letting a pro engineer take it from there.

thanks for the heads up on the tascam interface. i'm not looking for expensive preamps, just 'acceptable' quality.


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## david henman

iaresee said:


> David, maybe a good question would be: how is the D3200 falling short for your need now?
> What you're asking for can certainly be done with a computer-based DAW setup. But how you dive in to this is going to depend on how your workflow isn't working for you now IMO.


 
...in short, memory. i need to be able to archive more 'stuff'. but i'm also beginning to get a sense that a lot of my recording procedures would be faster on a computer.

i get a sense that the time has come. the industry has advanced sufficiently that most of the (basic) operations used during the recording process have been simplified and and streamlined in software formats.

i want to be able to plug in a bunch of microphones and use the mouse to hit record.


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## Guest

david henman said:


> ...in short, memory. i need to be able to archive more 'stuff'. but i'm also beginning to get a sense that a lot of my recording procedures would be faster on a computer.
> 
> i get a sense that the time has come. the industry has advanced sufficiently that most of the (basic) operations used during the recording process have been simplified and and streamlined in software formats.
> 
> i want to be able to plug in a bunch of microphones and use the mouse to hit record.


While Reaper and Logic and Cubase and whatnot certainly provide complex and feature-rich environments for capturing and editing audio I get the feeling you want something more streamlined, no?

Have you seen Presonus' Capture software? See: PreSonus

It's designed as an intermediary capture program -- you run it while you're recording to just stream everything in to your hard disk and you can deal with the fine tuning later. It's meant to work with their StudioLive mixing desks.

Is that the kind of flow you're after?

With software-based DAWs like Reaper or Logic you're going to be doing a lot more mouse-based tweaking to set input levels on channels and what not before you hit the Record button.


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## david henman

iaresee said:


> While Reaper and Logic and Cubase and whatnot certainly provide complex and feature-rich environments for capturing and editing audio I get the feeling you want something more streamlined, no?
> Have you seen Presonus' Capture software? See: PreSonus
> It's designed as an intermediary capture program -- you run it while you're recording to just stream everything in to your hard disk and you can deal with the fine tuning later. It's meant to work with their StudioLive mixing desks.
> Is that the kind of flow you're after?
> With software-based DAWs like Reaper or Logic you're going to be doing a lot more mouse-based tweaking to set input levels on channels and what not before you hit the Record button.


...working with a mouse has become second nature, thanks to the day jobs.
and it seems to me that it makes sense to commit to one (the mouse) rather than a combination of a mouse AND an outboard mixer.
i'm not sure i understand the concept of 'streaming' while recording. i would be happy with a basic procedure that is a streamlined version of traditional multitrack recording.
that is, i 'arm' whichever channels i want to record, then hit record.
i need to be able to stop and start as i record. i worry that i won't be able to hook up a footswitch to a computer. of course, with a click of the mouse i would be able to preset precisely where i want the recording to begin and end, i presume.
you know, all the basic operations to which i've become acustomed in the portastudio format.


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## david henman

...i'm getting the impression (partially from their ads in guitar player) that presonus has become a bit of leader/groundbreaker in this area.


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## Guest

david henman said:


> and it seems to me that it makes sense to commit to one (the mouse) rather than a combination of a mouse AND an outboard mixer.


My personal preference is both. Some things don't work well with the mouse (moving multiple knobs at the same time, fine grained tuning, for example). Something do (clicking to edit wave forms and what not). Having access to both is definitely a plus. I find if my hands are on one device I don't want to move to another to do something like start playback or start recording. So it helps if some functions are duplicated on interfaces.




> i'm not sure i understand the concept of 'streaming' while recording. i would be happy with a basic procedure that is a streamlined version of traditional multitrack recording.
> that is, i 'arm' whichever channels i want to record, then hit record.


That's essentially what Capture does.

In a more traditional DAW setup you'd have an audio interface with preamps and then the DAW software (like Logic or Reaper or Cubase). You need to set your levels on on the audio interface to make sure the preamps aren't clipping. Setup a track for each preamp in the DAW project. Arm the tracks. Start recording in the software. Capture tries to streamline that process.



> i need to be able to stop and start as i record. i worry that i won't be able to hook up a footswitch to a computer. of course, with a click of the mouse i would be able to preset precisely where i want the recording to begin and end, i presume.
> you know, all the basic operations to which i've become acustomed in the portastudio format.


One option you might want to consider is picking up a cheap 2 channel audio interface that comes with free software. Something like the low end Presonus boxes includes a copy of Cubase. That way you can try out the "traditional" DAW workflow and see how it works and doesn't work for you.

Certainly more affordable before you shell out for a full 18 input setup.


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## Guest

david henman said:


> ...i'm getting the impression (partially from their ads in guitar player) that presonus has become a bit of leader/groundbreaker in this area.


They're certainly going after the market that's been traditionally held by Avid and their Pro Tools line of products. ProTools used to be tightly integrate with the hardware interfaces and that was supposed to make their systems a little more rock solid, a little more integrated. You might consider checking out an M-Box/ProTools setup to see if you like how ProTools does it.


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## Vox71

Hey David, just remember, I think most people who work on a DAW at home - over a certain age of course - come from the portastudio-type setup. I am including myself in this category which means we have all been at that technological crossroads which you face now. We have all been there. My advice to you is to not fear it, but embrace it. You will find once you get into a decent DAW setup your sound quality, and productions, will only be limited by your imagination.

First off, seeing as how you are looking to record 16 simultaneous tracks I would not suggest you use any sort of USB-based interface. Even if you are recording at 16 bit / 44.1 you will find USB won't be able to tackle the audio bandwidth. The cost of your setup is going to be determined by your computer system, and your audio-interface. Computer systems are a little easier to figure out. Many big-box stores have competitive pricing, and list exactly what you are getting. 

Audio interfaces are a little more complicated, and can range anywhere from $200 to tens of thousands of dollars. From my experience interfaces seem to be based on 3 things, which consequently, are the components which make up an audio interface. They will be based on: 1) Preamp quality. 2) Number of inputs 3) A/D and D/A conversion.

Basically, the higher the quality of preamp, the greater the number of outputs and the higher quality of analog to digital & digital to analog converters... the more expensive the unit will be. 

You have already stated that you need 16 inputs of simultaneous audio which means if money is no object to you, then, an interface with the inputs you require and high-quality preamps & ad/da converters is going to run you a very pretty penny. 

Sixteen tracks is alot of input. Can I assume many of these tracks will be used to mic a drum kit? If that is, indeed, the case have you thought of using a drum virtual instrument program? What i mean by this is you can use an electronic drumkit (along with real drummer---lol) to trigger drum sounds from the virtual instrument program. There are tons - many have been used on quite a few popular recordings, and the samples are of the highest quality. Abbey Road drums are one of my favs. Anyway, what i am getting at is unless you have a ton of outboard gear and pro-level mics & room (which means tons more money) you will be hard-pressed to rival the drum quality which can be achieved by using some sort of drum virtual instrument. The best part----drum virtual instrument will not use any audio inputs! It runs on midi! Ultimately, you may not need a 16-track input device if you go this route. I see you live in Toronto, Dave. I am about an hour away from you and I use drum virtual instruments. If you are interested you are welcome to come by my place to see my setup for ideas, and hear audio samples as i use virtual instruments for my drums. Just PM me. 

Cheers,
Alfie


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## david henman

...no fear, really. i've been waiting until i felt the timing was right. now seems to be the time. the writing seems to be on the wall. i could go into detail, but suffice to say, on several levels, it just makes sense now, whereas six years or even six months ago, it didn't.

for me, audio quality is not a huge issue. all i really hope to do is avoid audio quality that is, you know, just plain awful. at this stage of the game, i can't afford to even think about competing on the same level as a world class recording studio, so "stuff that works" will do just fine. seriously. 

keeping in mind that my first cd was recorded on a tascam portastudio that now sells for $750 new, i'm willing to spend as much as that on an audio interface. 

i fully intend to program drums, percussion, bass and keyboards etc using whatever software is available when i'm demoing my material. but, ultimately, i'll want to replace those programs with real players, ideally in a live recording situation.

in which case, feel and performance again take precedence over audio quality.

thanks for the invite. alliston can't be any more than 30 minutes from bolton, and i haven't visited that town in several years.




Vox71 said:


> Hey David, just remember, I think most people who work on a DAW at home - over a certain age of course - come from the portastudio-type setup. I am including myself in this category which means we have all been at that technological crossroads which you face now. We have all been there. My advice to you is to not fear it, but embrace it. You will find once you get into a decent DAW setup your sound quality, and productions, will only be limited by your imagination.
> 
> First off, seeing as how you are looking to record 16 simultaneous tracks I would not suggest you use any sort of USB-based interface. Even if you are recording at 16 bit / 44.1 you will find USB won't be able to tackle the audio bandwidth. The cost of your setup is going to be determined by your computer system, and your audio-interface. Computer systems are a little easier to figure out. Many big-box stores have competitive pricing, and list exactly what you are getting.
> 
> Audio interfaces are a little more complicated, and can range anywhere from $200 to tens of thousands of dollars. From my experience interfaces seem to be based on 3 things, which consequently, are the components which make up an audio interface. They will be based on: 1) Preamp quality. 2) Number of inputs 3) A/D and D/A conversion.
> 
> Basically, the higher the quality of preamp, the greater the number of outputs and the higher quality of analog to digital & digital to analog converters... the more expensive the unit will be.
> 
> You have already stated that you need 16 inputs of simultaneous audio which means if money is no object to you, then, an interface with the inputs you require and high-quality preamps & ad/da converters is going to run you a very pretty penny.
> 
> Sixteen tracks is alot of input. Can I assume many of these tracks will be used to mic a drum kit? If that is, indeed, the case have you thought of using a drum virtual instrument program? What i mean by this is you can use an electronic drumkit (along with real drummer---lol) to trigger drum sounds from the virtual instrument program. There are tons - many have been used on quite a few popular recordings, and the samples are of the highest quality. Abbey Road drums are one of my favs. Anyway, what i am getting at is unless you have a ton of outboard gear and pro-level mics & room (which means tons more money) you will be hard-pressed to rival the drum quality which can be achieved by using some sort of drum virtual instrument. The best part----drum virtual instrument will not use any audio inputs! It runs on midi! Ultimately, you may not need a 16-track input device if you go this route. I see you live in Toronto, Dave. I am about an hour away from you and I use drum virtual instruments. If you are interested you are welcome to come by my place to see my setup for ideas, and hear audio samples as i use virtual instruments for my drums. Just PM me.
> 
> Cheers,
> Alfie


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## david henman

...actually, my mixer recommends cubase 6.

whatever that is...



nkjanssen said:


> If you're going to be passing your tracks to a pro mixer, don't underestimate the convenience of using ProTools, particularly if you want to do any pre-editing. Not essential, but convenient. Fortunately, with version 9, ProTools is no longer tied to any specific hardware platform.


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## Vox71

I thought you were in TO. Yeah, Bolton is only 30 minutes away. Hell, i am only a minute or two off of highway 50 so it would be straight up 50 for you. Certainly, feel free to stop by, and check it out and talk recording gear/possibilities. 

Yeah, i have a pretty basic setup augmented with some high-end pieces, and i get some really decent sounding stuff. 

I use virtual drums with a live drummer---as well as myself---not so lively a drummer, lol, and the feel & performance is there along with sound quality. I have also done some live performance stuff with multiple performers with exceptional sound quality. If you are looking to spend $750 on an interface you definitely should be able to get some excellent sound quality, especially, if you buy second hand.


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## david henman

...what usually ends up happening is that we replace the kick, snare and toms with samples. best of both worlds.

by the way, i'm not planning on connecting to the internet.

also trying to decide whether to buy a name brand computer, or buy from someone who builds them - my former landlord, for example.




Vox71 said:


> I thought you were in TO. Yeah, Bolton is only 30 minutes away. Hell, i am only a minute or two off of highway 50 so it would be straight up 50 for you. Certainly, feel free to stop by, and check it out and talk recording gear/possibilities.
> 
> Yeah, i have a pretty basic setup augmented with some high-end pieces, and i get some really decent sounding stuff.
> 
> I use virtual drums with a live drummer---as well as myself---not so lively a drummer, lol, and the feel & performance is there along with sound quality. I have also done some live performance stuff with multiple performers with exceptional sound quality. If you are looking to spend $750 on an interface you definitely should be able to get some excellent sound quality, especially, if you buy second hand.


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## david henman

...i'm thinking that i should be able to burn the wav files for each song to a dvd, then drop it off to my mixer, as i have been able to do with my portastudios.



nkjanssen said:


> If you're just going to use that guy, Cubase would be a better bet then. ProTools is quite a bit more common in pro studios, though. Again, though, not the end of the world. You can always export as WAV files or as an OMF file if necessary, but you lose the ability to conveniently pass sessions back and forth.


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## david henman

nkjanssen said:


> Yep. You can do that, you just don't get to include any session data that way. You might not think you need it, but I'm willing to bet that you will at some point want the ability to do that. I'm just saying that you should be as compatable with your mixer as possible.



...i suspect you are probably right, but given that i don't even know what 'session data' is, at this point, it's not yet an issue.


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## david henman

...as i mentioned, there are many things i hope to achieve with a computer-based set-up.

the ability to archive, label and file tracks and works-in-progress, and back them up (on dvds?), for example.

the ability to program drum, bass and keyboard tracks without running out of memory.

and the ability to record and edit quickly and easily.


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## mrmatt1972

It would be very helpful if you could tell us what your computer can do. What inputs it has (Firewire? USB 1.0, 2.0?) It also sounds like any DAW will do what you want. 

Try downloading Audacity (it's free shareware), it was the 1st DAW I ever encountered after using a Tascam portastudio (with cassette!) and then a little digital unit. It has an OK/semi-intuitive interface and a lot of good features and internet support - which anyone needs at the start of using a DAW. IMHO, the interface on the DAW is the most important feature - i.e., ease of use is paramount. It seems to me, with you not wanting to add any effects or EQ to the basic tracks, that it should be important to you too. Reaper is very easy to set up and use - highly intuitive. I don't know about the others.

No matter what you choose to do, you have some reading to do!


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## david henman

...i don't have a computer. i'm trying to decide between buying a dell or mac, or having someone like my former landlord build one for me.

i have grown up with recording technology, starting with sound-on-sound reel-to-reel tape recorders in the 60s and progressing through the first four-channel reel-to-reel, to four-channel cassette, to the first roland digital portastudio, to recent multitrack portastudios developed by tascam and korg. i'm self-taught on both mac and microsoft computers. should i still anticipate a daunting learning curve?





mrmatt1972 said:


> It would be very helpful if you could tell us what your computer can do. What inputs it has (Firewire? USB 1.0, 2.0?) It also sounds like any DAW will do what you want.
> 
> Try downloading Audacity (it's free shareware), it was the 1st DAW I ever encountered after using a Tascam portastudio (with cassette!) and then a little digital unit. It has an OK/semi-intuitive interface and a lot of good features and internet support - which anyone needs at the start of using a DAW. IMHO, the interface on the DAW is the most important feature - i.e., ease of use is paramount. It seems to me, with you not wanting to add any effects or EQ to the basic tracks, that it should be important to you too. Reaper is very easy to set up and use - highly intuitive. I don't know about the others.
> 
> No matter what you choose to do, you have some reading to do!


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## mrmatt1972

david henman said:


> should i still anticipate a daunting learning curve?


No, not really daunting. You'll be recording the first day. The daunting part is learning all the features that go into mixing and production, but you outsource that, so no worries. You should talk to the person who does your mixing and ask what they suggest.

Oh, and don't get a mac.


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## Vox71

I can't speak on Mac as i use PC. I wouldn't say there is a daunting learning curve per se as I found the fundamentals, and techniques, you learn coming from the portastudio world translates easily to a DAW. You are obviously versed in that world. Where i found the frustration - learning curve i guess - is getting things to run smoothly. It is a lot of tinkering with settings. Smooth communication between the PC, Recording software and audio interface takes tinkering and time. Can be frustrating to get it just right, but once you do all is good. Forums were my best friend getting my DAW hooked up..... and updated drivers (or sometimes older drivers in some cases). I think you will be fine on the recording end.... Its the setup that can be frustrating. Patience, and a beverage of your choice is the only remedy

Cheers,
Alfie


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## Guest

Buy a Mac. Just don't buy a brand new Mac Pro.

Get an iMac. Refurb.


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## hollowbody

mrmatt1972 said:


> Oh, and don't get a mac.


Haha. Yeah, Macs are nice and all, but man are they pricey. At least before when they used the Motorola chips, they could claim that the chips were better quality than the Intels, but now, they're basically run-of-the-mill PCs put in a fancy case with a different OS. 

I'd like to get a Mac Pro as a dedicated recording box, but not a new one. Most likely an old G4 or G5 used of CL for $500 or so.


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## Guest

hollowbody said:


> but now, they're basically run-of-the-mill PCs put in a fancy case with a different OS.


And that OS is a huge reason to buy a Mac.


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## hollowbody

iaresee said:


> And that OS is a huge reason to buy a Mac.


I 100% agree, but I can't see why that OS causes the hardware to be so much more $$$. 

The latest Win 7 full install runs $300-350 depending on flavour and as low as $225 for the bare-bones. Apple only listed upgrade prices to get to the latest Snow Leopard, but seriously, you think their R&D costs are that much higher? Even so, what's the cost of OSX 10.7? $600? $1000? Still doesn't add up.

Apple basically sells their OS in a fancy box and charges whatever they like for it because they know people will cough up the coin. Doesn't sit right with me. I'll take an MS-based system any day. There's nothing I can't do on a Mac that I can't do on a 'doze box. In the time I've been running Win 7, it's never crashed on me. Never. MS has their act together right now, unfortunately, no one gives them credit for it.

People say Macs are better than PCs for A/V recording/editing. Why? As I mentioned before, I'd like to get a used Mac to find out, but I can't see why it would be any different? You can get plenty of sweet hardware for a PC for less than a Mac and drivers for everything I use are very stable. The only time I have dropout or any glitches is when I try to record or playback a project with a TON of VSTs running, but something like that will bog down a Mac just as easily as a PC.

What really makes a Mac better?


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## Vox71

Hey guys i hate to be Buzz Killington, but I think the Mac vs PC debate is going to derail this thread, and only serve for everyone to pile on, and spew about whether Mac is better than PC or vice versa.


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## Guest

hollowbody said:


> I 100% agree, but I can't see why that OS causes the hardware to be so much more $$$.


I'm not going to have this conversation with you. You've got your mind set, I'm not interested in convincing you to change it. Buy what you like. I like OS X. _I think David will prefer it._ Convincing you it's better than Windows will, as other have stated, de-rail this thread.


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## Guest

nkjanssen said:


> I work (and record) on both PC's and Mac's and have been using both for many, many years. A stable PC is pretty much as good as a Mac as far as getting work done. The problem is that it's a bit more of a crapshoot to actually get a PC that acts the way it's supposed to.


This is my experience and opinion as well. The Mac will function very, very well without any tweaking or hand wringing or praying to the driver gods.

I especially recommend you do not buy a PC from your neighbour if what you're after is stable and reliable. Go buy a PC built by a shop that builds PCs specifically for use as DAWs if a PC is what you want. They do all the testing against the absolutely HUGE parts space and pick the ones that they've found to be stable. And they'll support you when things stop working right.


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## david henman

...interesting debate but, i agree that it gets us sidetracked. 

the advice to find a shop that builds macs /pcs specifically for use as daws makes sense, however, and is something i will investigate.


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## Guest

david henman said:


> ...interesting debate but, i agree that it gets us sidetracked.
> 
> the advice to find a shop that builds macs /pcs specifically for use as daws makes sense, however, and is something i will investigate.


I highly recommend a trip downtown to Saved By Technology - Canada's MIDI music & digital audio specialty retailer since 1985! -- they have both PC and Mac and massive experience helping people figure out what they need. And they'll let you sit there and play with it before you buy it.


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## david henman

iaresee said:


> I highly recommend a trip downtown to Saved By Technology - Canada's MIDI music & digital audio specialty retailer since 1985! -- they have both PC and Mac and massive experience helping people figure out what they need. And they'll let you sit there and play with it before you buy it.


 
...that has been my intention from the get go, so thanks for the validation. i assume they are still on top of this, as they have been from the very inception of digital home recording. i'm hoping to put my trust in their experience and knowledge. i used to know the owner, and some of the staff.


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## hollowbody

iaresee said:


> I'm not going to have this conversation with you. You've got your mind set, I'm not interested in convincing you to change it. Buy what you like. I like OS X. _I think David will prefer it._ Convincing you it's better than Windows will, as other have stated, de-rail this thread.


I don't mean to sidetrack the thread. As I said, I'd like to get a Mac box to do recording since a Mac+Pro Tools is the standard, but I wanted to know what it is _specifically_ about Macs that makes them better for this application? I think it's absolutely germane to the conversation and I wanted to hear from people to do use Macs about their experience so I know what I'm missing and I can gauge whether it's worth it to me.

I'm not slagging Macs as machines, nor OSX as an OS. I just think Macs are pricey, and that's not an opinion - it's a fact. I'm just looking to hear what I get for that extra cash in terms of real world performance.


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## Guest

hollowbody said:


> I don't mean to sidetrack the thread. As I said, I'd like to get a Mac box to do recording since a Mac+Pro Tools is the standard, but I wanted to know what it is _specifically_ about Macs that makes them better for this application? I think it's absolutely germane to the conversation and I wanted to hear from people to do use Macs about their experience so I know what I'm missing and I can gauge whether it's worth it to me.
> 
> I'm not slagging Macs as machines, nor OSX as an OS. I just think Macs are pricey, and that's not an opinion - it's a fact. I'm just looking to hear what I get for that extra cash in terms of real world performance.


I'll happily discuss what I like and dislike about all the OSes I touch in a day (OS X, Windows variants of all kinds, and Linux variants) but lets take it to another thread. I don't think it's salient to David's OP.


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## smorgdonkey

A lot of posts in a short time. I had a very steep learning curve with the computer based recording. Hardware was so easy but it took so many $$ to get decent results for me. I felt like pushing the computer out of my 4th floor window when I was starting computer based recording but after I got the hang of it, there are so many possibilities and so much bang for the buck. 

I essentially used the computer as a large tape deck really, mostly using mics through a mixer into the soundcard. I did use a drum machine but never ventured into midi or anything other than 'just a fancy recorder' so to speak...that is, if you don't count non-destructive editing. WOW. That is great!! Clean up tracks, fade, pan, apply effects and undo whatever part you aren't happy with. Awesome feature. Even something as simple as taking out noise between vocal lines (like breathing or other misc sounds) made a big difference in the 'cleanliness' of my recording. 

I still use an ancient version of Cubase and it does work quite fine for me. I have an upgraded version but I have never installed it...in fact, even that version is ancient now.

It is a huge door with a steep learning curve but well worth it in my opinion.


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## david henman

...these are some of the benefits and advantages i'm anticipating. i've watched my mixing engineer execute edits, very similar to cut and paste etc in word documents, and the preciseness is amazing. for example, if a word in a vocal line, or a note in a guitar solo, is slightly ahead or behind the beat, it can be easily moved to the exact location desired.



smorgdonkey said:


> A lot of posts in a short time. I had a very steep learning curve with the computer based recording. Hardware was so easy but it took so many $$ to get decent results for me. I felt like pushing the computer out of my 4th floor window when I was starting computer based recording but after I got the hang of it, there are so many possibilities and so much bang for the buck.
> 
> I essentially used the computer as a large tape deck really, mostly using mics through a mixer into the soundcard. I did use a drum machine but never ventured into midi or anything other than 'just a fancy recorder' so to speak...that is, if you don't count non-destructive editing. WOW. That is great!! Clean up tracks, fade, pan, apply effects and undo whatever part you aren't happy with. Awesome feature. Even something as simple as taking out noise between vocal lines (like breathing or other misc sounds) made a big difference in the 'cleanliness' of my recording.
> 
> I still use an ancient version of Cubase and it does work quite fine for me. I have an upgraded version but I have never installed it...in fact, even that version is ancient now.
> 
> It is a huge door with a steep learning curve but well worth it in my opinion.


----------



## david henman

...one concern i have: if i eliminate an outboard mixer in my setup, how will i be able to monitor during recording? does cubase, or protools, allow for this, and send a monitor feed out through the computer headphone or speaker outputs?


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...that has been my intention from the get go, so thanks for the validation. i assume they are still on top of this, as they have been from the very inception of digital home recording. i'm hoping to put my trust in their experience and knowledge. i used to know the owner, and some of the staff.


I never pass up an opportunity to visit that store. Great staff. Always friendly to people who just want to hang around and push all the buttons and twiddle all the knobs. Prices are a little high but I think you get service that's head and shoulders above any other store's recording department.


----------



## david henman

iaresee said:


> I never pass up an opportunity to visit that store. Great staff. Always friendly to people who just want to hang around and push all the buttons and twiddle all the knobs. Prices are a little high but I think you get service that's head and shoulders above any other store's recording department.


...above-average customer service is worth paying a little extra for, i think. and prices can always be negotiated!


----------



## smorgdonkey

david henman said:


> ...one concern i have: if i eliminate an outboard mixer in my setup, how will i be able to monitor during recording? does cubase, or protools, allow for this, and send a monitor feed out through the computer headphone or speaker outputs?


I decided to retain the outboard mixer to try to have a tangible 'less alien' feel to the transition *and I still like to put my fingers on faders*...so my set up does have an outboard mixer that I plug mics into. I am unsure how the various companies deal with that aspect but I am sure monitoring is enabled in some way.


----------



## 4345567

__________


----------



## hollowbody

nkjanssen said:


> Welcome to the wonderful world of latency.
> 
> All the major recording software platforms provide for in-the-box routing of signals for monitoring purposes, but there are potentially a lot of drawbacks to that. If you are using a software mixer for monitoring, there is no way around latency (i.e. delay in the time the sound is produced and the time it is heard in the monitors/headphones). Various audio interfaces provide for "direct monitoring", which can get latencies down to impercepable lengths. How well the computer/software/interface work together to deal with that can vary quite a bit from system to system, though. A simple solution to the whole issue is to use an outboard mixer just for monitoring purposes.


Drivers and outboard can help this. I use an M-Audio 410 for my audio interface, which is a 4in-10out interface. It has a pair of headphone outs, which is super handy. I just turn off or mute my YSM1Ps when I'm recording.

If you have properly installed and functioning ASIO drivers, that should get the latency down to a manageable amount. Though from what you've said, it doesn't sound like you'll be using very many software plug-ins or effects, right? You just want to record simultaneous tracks and ship them off for processing, right? If you're just recording audio data (no midi, no VSTs, etc) and playing that back, latency _shouldn't _be too​ big an issue.


----------



## Guest

Think of the input box you're using as an audio interface to your computer as a mixer without any knobs or sliders. That's essentially what it is. An interface box that supports direct monitoring (and all the good ones do) let you mix in the sound at the inputs with the sound coming from the computer, and put that mix at the outputs on the box. This lets you monitor your signals at the preamps without incurring any latency.

You use a virtual mixer on the computer to control this. Every hardware manufacturer makes a different looking virtual mixer interface but they all do basically the same thing: they let you control the mix of the preamps and the software at the outputs.


----------



## david henman

...my mixing engineer highly recommends cubase.


----------



## david henman

...okay, here's the solution i (we, actually, as i consulted with a "guru") have come up with: a $2,000 IMAC (solid state), which comes bundled with garageband.

i'm looking into using my korg d3200 as an interface, but i'm not optimistic.

worst case scenario, i buy a basic stereo card (audio interface), and continue shopping for a 16-channel unit. unfortunately, this seems to be an area that most companies avoid. the apogee and motu units are quite expensive.

eventually, i'll add cubase or pro tools, but i'm told that garageband will do nicely for now.

evidently, latency is not an issue.


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...okay, here's the solution i (we, actually, as i consulted with a "guru") have come up with: a $2,000 IMAC (solid state), which comes bundled with garageband.


Solid state drives are awesome. I replaced the DVD drive in my work MBPro with a SSD and use that for virtual machines -- it absolutely screams. Stupid fast.

Caveat to using them: they die with alarming frequency in comparison to mechanical drives. And when they die they go down in flames. It's not just a few bad sectors or some intermittent read/write issues. They go kaput. No more. No data recovery possible.

But I still love them and all the blazing fast speed they bring to my computer. I love them so much I'm considering swapping the primary drive in my MBPro for an SSD as well.

The solution to the flaming death issue? Constant backups. Since my SSD isn't the primary drive in my MBPro, Time Machine won't back it up, so I use CrashPlan to keep a near constant replication of the drive to a network-attached drive in my network. It's free to use in this configuration and it does incremental backups similar to Time Machine so I can go back in time and get an old revision of a file if I want. The UI isn't as user friendly and pretty as Time Machine, but it works. (Note: I also use CrashPlan on all my machines to backup my personal data to the cloud for offsite storage...)

I don't want to scare you off a solid state drive. They are the next great leap in computing performance. I dream of how much mobile battery life I'll have in my MBPro when it's all SSD. I'm sure I'll go from the 4-hour range I have now to almost double that. Nice. But just understand that using a SSD for your data means some extra diligence is required to back that data up regularly.



> i'm looking into using my korg d3200 as an interface, but i'm not optimistic.


Neither am I!  I have actually gained a considerably amount of experience with this unit. The bass player from my Duran Duran Tribute project has one and this is the unit we use to run all our pre-recorded backing tracks off of. It's nice, reliably, but most definitely meant to be a stand-alone unit. It has non-realtime USB to connect it to your Mac. It basically shows you the Korg's harddrive. It doesn't stream audio over USB. the S/PDIF out is optical and stereo which means you may be able to make it work with a TOSLINK cable to your Mac. The Mac's audio-in jack is both electrical and optical -- does double duty. So that might work out as a way to get two channels of audio in to your Mac in realtime.

But it's a good way to cut your teeth on the setup, get familiar with how it works before you plunk down big money on an outboard audio interface.



> worst case scenario, i buy a basic stereo card (audio interface), and continue shopping for a 16-channel unit. unfortunately, this seems to be an area that most companies avoid. the apogee and motu units are quite expensive.


Most companies provide an ADAT in on their 8-channel units specifically so you can gang another 8-channel preamp-to-ADAT box on top of it. So you buy an 8-channel interface and an 8-channel expansion unit for more pres.

Rock on! Welcome to the modern world of digital audio workstations and all the insane depth they provide to the creative process.


----------



## hollowbody

iaresee said:


> Solid state drives are awesome. I replaced the DVD drive in my work MBPro with a SSD and use that for virtual machines -- it absolutely screams. Stupid fast.
> 
> Caveat to using them: they die with alarming frequency in comparison to mechanical drives. And when they die they go down in flames. It's not just a few bad sectors or some intermittent read/write issues. They go kaput. No more. No data recovery possible.
> 
> But I still love them and all the blazing fast speed they bring to my computer. I love them so much I'm considering swapping the primary drive in my MBPro for an SSD as well.


I've been thinking about a Macbook Air with SSDs as a portable recording solution for myself. I'm kinda torn between a Macbook Pro with its higher horsepower and the Air for the SSD and its greater portability, though reliability is definitely a concern.



> Most companies provide an ADAT in on their 8-channel units specifically so you can gang another 8-channel preamp-to-ADAT box on top of it. So you buy an 8-channel interface and an 8-channel expansion unit for more pres.
> 
> Rock on! Welcome to the modern world of digital audio workstations and all the insane depth they provide to the creative process.


The Digi 003+ has 8 ins (some have 4 mic pres and 4 lines, some have 8 mic pres). I just saw them at L&M yesterday for $995 (the 8 mic pre version) with a full copy of Pro Tools as well as a whole bunch of plug-in VSTs. Not a bad buy at all.

Alternatively, you can find an older Digi 002 and, like Ian said, adat in more channels though a slaved unit. The older Digi 002s go for a song these days (about $300-$350) and they're still pretty good units!


----------



## Guest

hollowbody said:


> I've been thinking about a Macbook Air with SSDs as a portable recording solution for myself. I'm kinda torn between a Macbook Pro with its higher horsepower and the Air for the SSD and its greater portability, though reliability is definitely a concern.


The Airs are sweet. My Dad's got one for work and it's a portable computing dream machine. I wouldn't use it for recording. Screen's too small. Unless you really, really, really, really need the portability I'd never recommend a laptop. I have a MBPro for work because I need it to move with me.

For recording at home I have an 2009'ish era iMac. Works great. The latest models have space for 2 full-size drives (not smaller laptop drives). I'd also consider a MacMini with an external drive (the internal drive is a laptop-sized drive, not great for sustained writes and reads) for recording. Great form factor on those, deadly quiet.


----------



## hollowbody

iaresee said:


> The Airs are sweet. My Dad's got one for work and it's a portable computing dream machine. I wouldn't use it for recording. Screen's too small. Unless you really, really, really, really need the portability I'd never recommend a laptop. I have a MBPro for work because I need it to move with me.
> 
> For recording at home I have an 2009'ish era iMac. Works great. The latest models have space for 2 full-size drives (not smaller laptop drives). I'd also consider a MacMini with an external drive (the internal drive is a laptop-sized drive, not great for sustained writes and reads) for recording. Great form factor on those, deadly quiet.


Yeah, unfortunately, the portability is what I'm after here. I'm ok using my PC-based setup at home for recording, but I wanted something portable to take to rehearsal spaces, shows, or on-site recording with some of the people I collab with on projects. I know it's not ideal.

Screen size is actually not an issue, I won't be doing anything other than recording material. I'll export wavs and do the editing at home on the PC. 

But anywho, I don't wanna take this thread OT. 

David, that iMac looks like a sweet rig. I'll probably be looking at something like that, or a gently used Mac G5 or similar when my PC eventually bites the dust.


----------



## david henman

...i think i've found my interface(s):

*ART TubeOpto 8™

Applied Research & Technology: Digital Interfaces
*


----------



## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ...i think i've found my interface(s):
> 
> *ART TubeOpto 8™
> 
> Applied Research & Technology: Digital Interfaces
> *


ART does make a lot of great products at really accessible price points. I've used a couple of their things in the past, like their Tube Mic Preamp and they were nice. If you do pick this up, let me know how it is, cuz a pair of these would really make my life easier too


----------



## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ...i think i've found my interface(s):
> 
> *ART TubeOpto 8™
> 
> Applied Research & Technology: Digital Interfaces
> *


ART does make a lot of great products at really accessible price points. I've used a couple of their things in the past, like their Tube Mic Preamp and they were nice. If you do pick this up, let me know how it is, cuz a pair of these would really make my life easier too


----------



## david henman

...or, for a little more money:

Saffire PRO 40 Audio Interfaces Professional 20 In / 20 Out Firewire interface with eight Focusrite Pre-amps
OctoPre MkII Mic Pres


----------



## ronmac

david henman said:


> ...i think i've found my interface(s):
> 
> *ART TubeOpto 8™
> 
> Applied Research & Technology: Digital Interfaces
> *


If you go with this product make sure you leave at least 1 rack space between units. They run very hot and life expectancy can be directly influenced by ventilation, or lack thereof.


----------



## ronmac

david henman said:


> ...i think i've found my interface(s):
> 
> *ART TubeOpto 8™
> 
> Applied Research & Technology: Digital Interfaces
> *


If you go with this product make sure you leave at least 1 rack space between units. They run very hot and life expectancy can be directly influenced by ventilation, or lack thereof.


----------



## david henman

...okay, i think i'm ready to do this: purchase an imac, which comes bundled with garageband, with or without a solid state drive.

anyone feel i should be talked out of this, reconsider microsoft windows, perhaps?

stick with my portastudio and drums machines until the computer daw industry has had more time to evolve?





david henman said:


> ...okay, here's the solution i (we, actually, as i consulted with a "guru") have come up with: a $2,000 IMAC (solid state), which comes bundled with garageband.
> 
> i'm looking into using my korg d3200 as an interface, but i'm not optimistic.
> 
> worst case scenario, i buy a basic stereo card (audio interface), and continue shopping for a 16-channel unit. unfortunately, this seems to be an area that most companies avoid. the apogee and motu units are quite expensive.
> 
> eventually, i'll add cubase or pro tools, but i'm told that garageband will do nicely for now.
> 
> evidently, latency is not an issue.


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...okay, i think i'm ready to do this: purchase an imac, which comes bundled with garageband, with or without a solid state drive.
> 
> anyone feel i should be talked out of this, reconsider microsoft windows, perhaps?


I'm pro-Mac. So you won't hear an argument against this idea from me.



> stick with my portastudio and drums machines until the computer daw industry has had more time to evolve?


25 years isn't long enough for you?


----------



## david henman

iaresee said:


> 25 years isn't long enough for you?


...only if anything remotely resembling tape is involved.


----------



## JMann

Fwiw:

I'm having a blast recording and learning the recording processes on a PC DAW. It is so much fun recording one's music that the only problem I have is the time I can afford to invest in it.


I have read that you can't go wrong with a Mac platform and I considered a Mac prior to my PC but the usual reasons for going PC came up (cost being the big one) and I had/have the 11r which came with Pro Tools LE, a program optimized for PC's (someone correct me if I'm wrong). 11r also doubles as my audio interface and I also route my Axe through the 11r. I originally had a few time consuming start up glitches but those are behind me and have had no issues with the recording process for months. And even though there is lots to learn, a lot of it is intuitive. 

Going back to OP and the main question of the OP: If you're willing to invest the time I'd suggest you were ready to go DAW when you posted this thread. I can't stress enough how much fun this all is:smilie_flagge17:!


----------



## david henman

...got the imac!

the first thing they do, of course, is try and sell you a $200 3-yr apple care plan.

it is somewhat vague, and seems to mostly provide technical telephone support. 

the only thing i worry about is the possibility of dust etc getting into the port where you insert cds and dvds.

and i’m confused about garageband. the girl who sold me the imac assured me that i could use it as a composing tool. 

i insisted she consult with another salesperson who is also a musician and he, too, assured me that i could use garageband as a composing tool. 

obviously, the definition of composing has changed over the years – it now means assembling bits that someone else has composed and played for you. 

convenient, perhaps, but not exactly what i had in mind.

nonetheless, the imac is a wonder. 

once i get my hands on some drum/percussion software that actually allows me to compose drums tracks, i’ll be good to go.

i have $100 drum machines that allow me to do this, so it shouldn't be too much to ask, yes?


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...got the imac!
> 
> the first thing they do, of course, is try and sell you a $200 3-yr apple care plan.


FWIW: I buy AppleCare for my work Macs (all laptops), but not for my home macs. My home iMac had a drive die after 3 years. Cost me ~$120 to have it fixed. Not a big deal.

If I could make a suggestion: maybe see if Saved By Tech or someone in town offers an intro-to-digital-recording class you take. That'd be money better spent than AppleCare IMHO.



> the only thing i worry about is the possibility of dust etc getting into the port where you insert cds and dvds.


It's a) well protected from dust; and b) nearly obsolete. So don't worry too much. 



> obviously, the definition of composing has changed over the years – it now means assembling bits that someone else has composed and played for you.


That's...odd. GB can record audio you play. Of course, it can also work with loops, but that's just a piece of what it does. But it can record MIDI signals for trigger built-in software synths, audio from analog inputs, and even automation curves.



> once i get my hands on some drum/percussion software that actually allows me to compose drums tracks, i’ll be good to go.
> 
> i have $100 drum machines that allow me to do this, so it shouldn't be too much to ask, yes?


Ah. I see what you're after.

I don't know if EZDrummer works with GarageBand, but I love that software.

Alternatively you could just feed your drum machine in to GarageBand over an analog input.


----------



## Guest

Edit: Hmm...looks like I'm getting bit by the dreaded double-post bug now. Fun.


----------



## david henman

_If I could make a suggestion: maybe see if Saved By Tech or someone in town offers an intro-to-digital-recording class you take. 
_
...do you really think i'll need it? i've been doing multitrack recording for almost fifty years, so unless the designers of recording software have conspired to make it a complete mystery, i should be able to figure it out.



_Ah. I see what you're after.

I don't know if EZDrummer works with GarageBand, but I love that software.
_
...actually, i believe it does. is ezdrummer expensive?


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...do you really think i'll need it? i've been doing multitrack recording for almost fifty years, so unless the designers of recording software have conspired to make it a complete mystery, i should be able to figure it out.


Depends. Add MIDI, virtual synths and instruments, non-linear editing and maybe you'd like someone to walk you through it once. Or not. Just a suggestion.





> ..actually, i believe it does. is ezdrummer expensive?


I bought my copy on sale for $59 years ago and I've upgraded it once since for another $49. It does the job for me. I highly recommend the Songwriter Pack of MIDI grooves for it.


----------



## david henman

.................................................................


----------



## david henman

...another option might be a used keyboard that has drum sounds – most do, i think - and “play” drums (etc) on it.


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...another option might be a used keyboard that has drum sounds – most do, i think - and “play” drums (etc) on it.


Yea. GarageBand also ships with a drum synth and a few kits. Track -> New Track. Select 'Software Instrument' as the track type and click 'Create'. When the track shows up, use the browser on the left side of the GB window to select Drum Kits and then pick a kit. You can use a MIDI keyboard or control pads to "play" the virtual drum kit. It records MIDI so you can change the kit sounds any time you like.


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...another option might be a used keyboard that has drum sounds – most do, i think - and “play” drums (etc) on it.


Yea. GarageBand also ships with a drum synth and a few kits. Track -> New Track. Select 'Software Instrument' as the track type and click 'Create'. When the track shows up, use the browser on the left side of the GB window to select Drum Kits and then pick a kit. You can use a MIDI keyboard or control pads to "play" the virtual drum kit. It records MIDI so you can change the kit sounds any time you like.


----------



## david henman

iaresee said:


> Yea. GarageBand also ships with a drum synth and a few kits. Track -> New Track. Select 'Software Instrument' as the track type and click 'Create'. When the track shows up, use the browser on the left side of the GB window to select Drum Kits and then pick a kit. You can use a MIDI keyboard or control pads to "play" the virtual drum kit. It records MIDI so you can change the kit sounds any time you like.


...perfect. good to know, once i get my hands on an audio interface. in the interim, do you know if it's possible to "play" the virtual drum kit using the mouse or computer keyboard?


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...perfect. good to know, once i get my hands on an audio interface. in the interim, do you know if it's possible to "play" the virtual drum kit using the mouse or computer keyboard?


Absolutely. You lose velocity on the hits because your keyboard is either on or off, there's no "how hard did I hit the key" but you can edit the MIDI data after you perform it to tweak velocity curves if you like.

From GarageBand: Window -> Musical Typing or key combination ⇧⌘K (Shift - Command - K)


----------



## david henman

iaresee said:


> Absolutely. You lose velocity on the hits because your keyboard is either on or off, there's no "how hard did I hit the key" but you can edit the MIDI data after you perform it to tweak velocity curves if you like.
> 
> From GarageBand: Window -> Musical Typing or key combination ⇧⌘K (Shift - Command - K)



...again, perfect. i've never had the luxury of "velocity" and can't imagine needing it. i only use the drum tracks to map out ideas dor a real drummer.

thanks for all your help!!!


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...again, perfect. i've never had the luxury of "velocity" and can't imagine needing it. i only use the drum tracks to map out ideas dor a real drummer.
> 
> thanks for all your help!!!


The other advantage to buying a Mac is you have me to answer questions.


----------



## Guitar101

david henman said:


> i only use the drum tracks to map out ideas for a real drummer.


Now you've hurt my Cakewalk drummers feelings. He's always wanted to be a "real drummer".

Seriously, I use Sonar on my computer and my E-MU 1820 as my sound card. It's a little dated but it is still all I need to create songs with unlimited tracks. I'm presently working on uploading video data with the sound data with the final result being creating HD videos. I'll post something when I get something worth showing.


----------



## david henman

…problem solved!

i downloaded a 122-page garageband manual yesterday – it turns out that it is possible to play and record drums, and a host of other instruments, in real time, using the computer keyboard or mouse.

bloody cool!

the sounds don’t have to be convincing. on recordings i plan to use real drums or, if necessary, have my mixing engineer replace the unconvincing drum tracks with convincing ones.

i'll need a midi keyboard to play and trigger virtual instruments - not sure what i'm looking for here.

one other concern is backing up my projects – i’m hoping to find a solution that combines backing up small projects to a convenient medium (dvd, perhaps?) as well as using an online source for back, assuming it’s not cost-prohibitive.


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> i'll need a midi keyboard to play and trigger virtual instruments - not sure what i'm looking for here.


Something like this: M-AUDIO - Axiom 49 - Advanced 49-Key Semi-Weighted USB MIDI Controller



> one other concern is backing up my projects – i’m hoping to find a solution that combines backing up small projects to a convenient medium (dvd, perhaps?) as well as using an online source for back, assuming it’s not cost-prohibitive.


OS X comes with this awesome thing called Time Machine -- just attach an external USB drive to your computer. Lauch System Preferences. Click on the Time Machine settings and it'll walk you through setting up a local back up of your hard drive.

Not only does it back things up, but you step back through time to certain dates to see how your files were an hour ago, a day ago, 2 days ago, a week ago, a month ago, etc. So if you delete something and later want it back, you can get it. Just make sure the external USB drive you buy is bigger than the hard drive in your iMac and you're all set.

Here's Apple's introduction to Time Machine: Mac OS X: Time Machine Basics

For off-site backups I use http://www.crashplan.com/]CrashPlan[/url]. It's unlimited offsite storage and it does incremental backups like Time Machine does. The UI is a bit clunky, but the ingress speed is superb. I backup 6 computers with my CrashPlan plan and it costs me about $100/year for the peace of mind. There are other services you can look at like Carbonite and DollyDrive -- similar ideas, different implementations and pricing.


----------



## Guest

Double post


----------



## david henman

...cool! the m-audio keyrig 49 midi keyboard/controller is $100 at long & mcquade.


----------



## david henman

...heading to steve's music this week to pick up a tascam US-1800 audio interface - $299.


----------



## david henman

i went to l&m yesterday and picked up a tascam us-1800 audio interface, and an m-audio keyrig 49 midi keyboard/controller.
got everything connected via usb.
installed the drivers/software for the audio interface and…
voila! 
nothing!
just as i expected.
i have a sense that none of these attempts to get the imac to function as a daw and recording studio are going to happen until i connect to the mothership and allow them to hook an IV up to the marketing fluids.
i’ll give rogers a call shortly.


----------



## Guest

Hit Cmd-Space to bring up Spotlight in the upper left corner and in the box that appears type:

Audio MIDI Setup

It'll show you a program at the top of the list of search results. Click it.

In that program you can see which audio interfaces your Mac knows about it. Is the Tascam listed there?


----------



## david henman

...i'll take a look when i get back home. i have a feeling that there are garageband preferences and other midi/audio settings that have to be adjusted.



iaresee said:


> Hit Cmd-Space to bring up Spotlight in the upper left corner and in the box that appears type:
> 
> Audio MIDI Setup
> 
> It'll show you a program at the top of the list of search results. Click it.
> 
> In that program you can see which audio interfaces your Mac knows about it. Is the Tascam listed there?


----------



## david henman

...this is one of the main reasons i stayed away from computer recording for so long. 
with a portastudio, you simply plug it in to an ac outlet and start recording.


----------



## Guest

Don't worry man. We'll get you sorted out. It's a one time config thing and then you'll be up and running.

From GarageBand you hit Cmd+` to bring up the Preferences pane. Got to the Advanced tab and from there you can select the audio interface to use. Does the Tascam show up there? It should.


----------



## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ...this is one of the main reasons i stayed away from computer recording for so long.
> with a portastudio, you simply plug it in to an ac outlet and start recording.


Keep at it, David. Once you get it set up right, you won't have to fuss with it again. I know the initial hoop-jumping is a major PITA, but once it's working you'll start to experience the benefits of a computer-based DAW over an in-the-box setup.


----------



## ronmac

As others have said, hang in and you will soon reap the benefits.

Imagine what your life would be like today without computer technology. Can you imagine having to use Canada Post to keep in touch with all of us? 

Our brave new world may not be perfect, but not many of us would give it all up. Work with what helps you (over the long run).


----------



## david henman

...thanks - printing this off to take with me when i head back to thwe studio at noon.



iaresee said:


> Don't worry man. We'll get you sorted out. It's a one time config thing and then you'll be up and running.
> 
> From GarageBand you hit Cmd+` to bring up the Preferences pane. Got to the Advanced tab and from there you can select the audio interface to use. Does the Tascam show up there? It should.


----------



## david henman

...that did the trick! 

i recorded a bunch of live tracks last night with my acoustic guitar in stereo, and my girlfriend singing harmony.

rogers is coming today to install an internet connection, so i'll be able to expand garageband, hopefully.

at some point, perhaps during the winter, i'll upgrade to logic express or cubase.



iaresee said:


> Hit Cmd-Space to bring up Spotlight in the upper left corner and in the box that appears type:
> 
> Audio MIDI Setup
> 
> It'll show you a program at the top of the list of search results. Click it.
> 
> In that program you can see which audio interfaces your Mac knows about it. Is the Tascam listed there?


----------



## david henman

...the tascam us-1800 was a steal - $300 and i can basically record at least twelve tracks simultaneously.

one issue that will come up, however, is phantom power. it can only be applied to mic channels 1-4 or 5-8 simultaneously.

this could be problematic if, for example, i’m using six dynamic mics and two condensers.


----------



## Guest

You can buy external 48V phantom supplies. Companies like ART and Behringer make inexpensive units.


----------



## david henman

iaresee said:


> You can buy external 48V phantom supplies. Companies like ART and Behringer make inexpensive units.


...apex, as well. probably a good interim solution. thanks again for helping to get me up and running - you are the one who came to the rescue!


----------



## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ...the tascam us-1800 was a steal - $300 and i can basically record at least twelve tracks simultaneously.
> 
> one issue that will come up, however, is phantom power. it can only be applied to mic channels 1-4 or 5-8 simultaneously.
> 
> this could be problematic if, for example, i’m using six dynamic mics and two condensers.


Sorry David, but I don't get why it's a problem? Your dynamics won't be harmed by phantom power (unless they're really old and strange mics), so you can just plug all 8 mics in and apply phantom power to one of the banks of inputs and you should be fine. The 48v isn't going to hurt something like a SM58 or 57.


----------



## david henman

hollowbody said:


> Sorry David, but I don't get why it's a problem? Your dynamics won't be harmed by phantom power (unless they're really old and strange mics), so you can just plug all 8 mics in and apply phantom power to one of the banks of inputs and you should be fine. The 48v isn't going to hurt something like a SM58 or 57.


 
...(voice of johnny carson) "i did not know that!" 

cool! and thanks! the help i've been getting from this from this forum has been consistently amazing.


----------



## david henman

...i spent the weekend with garageband, and recorded a couple of songs. the sound quality, perhaps thanks to the $300 tascam us-1800, is quite lovely, to these ears.

garageband, however, may not be the software for me. i'm having a heckuva time performing the most basic functions, like designating the end of a song, for example, or burning more than one song on a cd.


----------



## Guest

GarageBand is...cute.

I'm a Logic user. I think it's bang-for-the-buck is unbelievable. The loops and VST instruments you get with it are huge, royalty free and stellar.


----------



## david henman

iaresee said:


> GarageBand is...cute.
> 
> I'm a Logic user. I think it's bang-for-the-buck is unbelievable. The loops and VST instruments you get with it are huge, royalty free and stellar.


...i wouldn't know what to do with a loop, or a vst instrument.

i need to be able to record tracks. guitar tracks. vocal tracks. bass tracks. i need to be abel to compose and arrange songs.

i'm getting a feeling that garageband was not designed for this.

and i'm not sure where guys like me fit into this eqaution.

with portastudios, it was all so simple. turn the machine on, press the red button and go.


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...i wouldn't know what to do with a loop, or a vst instrument.
> 
> i need to be able to record tracks. guitar tracks. vocal tracks. bass tracks. i need to be abel to compose and arrange songs.
> 
> i'm getting a feeling that garageband was not designed for this.
> 
> and i'm not sure where guys like me fit into this eqaution.
> 
> with portastudios, it was all so simple. turn the machine on, press the red button and go.


You may want to look at Reaper. Cheap and effective. Geared very much towards recording and working with audio, as opposed to MIDI data (but it does support MIDI). Free to try IIRC.


----------



## hollowbody

iaresee said:


> You may want to look at Reaper. Cheap and effective. Geared very much towards recording and working with audio, as opposed to MIDI data (but it does support MIDI). Free to try IIRC.


Agreed, Reaper and Audacity are perfect for what you're looking for. I've never used Reapers, but hear great things about it. I have used Audacity, and it's fantastic! I can do pretty much everything I would need to do using Sonar with Audacity. Also, it's open-source, so it's totally free.

Garageband was designed for people to fool around with, not to seriously do any recording. You certainly _can_ use it that way, but it's not the intent. Logic is Apple's real audio workhorse and there's always Pro Tools, but for what it sounds like you need to do, either Reaper or Audacity should be more than enough.


----------



## hardasmum

david henman said:


> iaresee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GarageBand is...cute.
> 
> I'm a Logic user. I think it's bang-for-the-buck is unbelievable. The loops and VST instruments you get with it are huge, royalty free and stellar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...i wouldn't know what to do with a loop, or a vst instrument.
> 
> i need to be able to record tracks. guitar tracks. vocal tracks. bass tracks. i need to be abel to compose and arrange songs.
> 
> i'm getting a feeling that garageband was not designed for this.
> 
> and i'm not sure where guys like me fit into this eqaution.
> 
> with portastudios, it was all so simple. turn the machine on, press the red button and go.
Click to expand...

Unlike previous versions of Pro Tools where you had to use their hardware the new PT 9 allows you to use other interfaces. I won't argue that it is better or worse than Cakewalk or Cubase etc, but the one advantage is that you can easily take your Pro Tools session into any studio for overdubs (drum tracking in a big room perhaps?) or mixing etc without the headache of trying to cross platforms.

For better or worse Pro Tools is pretty much industry standard.

My two cents. Whatever you choose, once you get comfortable with the interface and software you will be able to do amazing things that were impossible to do on a Portastudio.

Enjoy!!


----------



## david henman

iaresee said:


> You may want to look at Reaper. Cheap and effective. Geared very much towards recording and working with audio, as opposed to MIDI data (but it does support MIDI). Free to try IIRC.


...will do, thanks! 

with garageband, i think you get what you pay for. 

editing, so far, seems to be a nightmare, and almost completely ignored in the 122-page manual, although i have, finally, figured out how to signify the end of a song.


----------



## david henman

...a non-commercial version of reaper is $60. i think i should give it a try.


----------



## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ...a non-commercial version of reaper is $60. i think i should give it a try.


Check out Audacity first. It's totally free and will do everything you are looking for. If you don't like it, by all means, give Reaper a go. In my books, free is always better


----------



## Chito

Tascam US1800 and Reaper should work perfectly. I myself have the older Tascam US1641 and Reaper. Probably the least expensive option in the market if you are looking for a DAW. I think it is a perfect combination if you are thinking of just tracking and having the mixing and mastering done someplace else.


----------



## david henman

...i downloaded reaper and, despite the rather daunting 400-page user manual, i was "making tracks" after a couple of hours.

however, i am suddenly dealing with a high degree of latency. 

even with garageband, there is some noticeable latency.

just checking the manual - looks like i need to access my audio card's control and increase the buffer size - i'll try that when i get back to the studio this afternoon.


----------



## david henman

hollowbody said:


> Check out Audacity first. It's totally free and will do everything you are looking for.


...which version? 1.0? 1.2? 1.3 beta?


----------



## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ...which version? 1.0? 1.2? 1.3 beta?


I would stick with 1.2.x right now. I haven't tried the latest beta, so it may contain bugs and stuff. Heck, whenever I get the latest version of Sonar it's buggy as heck for a little bit until a few updates come out.

I use Audacity all the time on my partner's netbook and my drummer's imac to do basic recordings off-the-floor at rehearsal or direct from the board at shows.


----------



## hardasmum

david henman said:


> however, i am suddenly dealing with a high degree of latency.
> 
> even with garageband, there is some noticeable latency.
> 
> just checking the manual - looks like i need to access my audio card's control and increase the buffer size - i'll try that when i get back to the studio this afternoon.


Other way round. Decrease buffer size to lessen latency. Lowest possible is best.


----------



## david henman

...i gave up on reaper but, in the process, discovered they offer absolutely amazing customer support. full refund within hours and very helpful email response - i may be back.

so, for now, it's back to garageband and trying to find out if it has anything resembling editing capabilities.

in the meantime i will continue searching for a straightforward recording software program that speaks a language i can understand.

i decreased the buffer size, which dramatically reduced the latency, but now i have to constantly reboot the imac.

i don't ever recall having latency issues with my korg d3200 self-contained all-in-one portastudio, nor ever having to reboot.

turn on, plug in, record. done.


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> i decreased the buffer size, which dramatically reduced the latency, but now i have to constantly reboot the imac.


That shouldn't be required. Something is not right. Have you installed the latest drivers from Tascam? I'm assuming you're running OS X Lion -- that's a very new OS and there are known inconsistencies when it comes to external audio devices such that driver meant for the older OS X versions (Snow Leopard and Leopard) don't work with Lion.

http://tascam.com/product/us-1800/downloads/ -- that drive hasn't been updated since January. I'd contact Tascam first to make sure that the US-1800 has been tested and known to work under OS x Lion.

If that ends up at a dead end, remember you have 90 days of phone support from Apple and they *will* help you with stuff like this. Because the Apple environment is so closed, so tightly controlled, their tech support is quite able to help with problems that involve third party drivers and peripherals. Unlike a call to the MS Windows tech support line where they'll just pass the buck and blame the hardware vendor...


----------



## david henman

iaresee said:


> That shouldn't be required. Something is not right. Have you installed the latest drivers from Tascam? I'm assuming you're running OS X Lion -- that's a very new OS and there are known inconsistencies when it comes to external audio devices such that driver meant for the older OS X versions (Snow Leopard and Leopard) don't work with Lion.
> 
> http://tascam.com/product/us-1800/downloads/ -- that drive hasn't been updated since January. I'd contact Tascam first to make sure that the US-1800 has been tested and known to work under OS x Lion.
> 
> If that ends up at a dead end, remember you have 90 days of phone support from Apple and they *will* help you with stuff like this. Because the Apple environment is so closed, so tightly controlled, their tech support is quite able to help with problems that involve third party drivers and peripherals. Unlike a call to the MS Windows tech support line where they'll just pass the buck and blame the hardware vendor...


...how do i find out whether i have OS X LION?

i'll update the tascam this weekend, although it really seems to be working well.

i'm told that, while microsoft windows will allow to wrestle with issues like these, mac just throws in the towel and waits for a reboot (message to apple "reboot this, m*th*f*ck*r! LOL!).

i do have a "guru" who will be coming by in a week or so to walk me through this - i'm compiling a list of questions.

i'm basically happy with my decision, i just worry that i made it 10-20 years prematurely.


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...how do i find out whether i have OS X LION?


Click the apple icon in the toolbar, upper left corner. Select 'About The Mac'. In the window that pops up what does it say for version? Here's what I see:












> i'm told that, while microsoft windows will allow to wrestle with issues like these, mac just throws in the towel and waits for a reboot (message to apple "reboot this, m*th*f*ck*r! LOL!).


That's not right. I never reboot my macs. My iMac has been literally on for a year now. It's on a UPS. Central Time Machine server for my entire house. And I record on it all the time.


----------



## david henman

...quick question(s) in regard to latency and buffer size: does buffer size have to be some sort of multiple, like 96, 48 etc? how will i know if/when it's too small?


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...quick question(s) in regard to latency and buffer size: does buffer size have to be some sort of multiple, like 96, 48 etc? how will i know if/when it's too small?


You'll get pops and clicks in the track, drop outs, when the latency setting is too small. Otherwise sky's the limit. You'll want to work in multiples of 8 usually.


----------



## david henman

..with garageband, i will only be able to record eight tracks simultaneously (plus one midi track).

ultimately, this will be limiting.

i've discovered a few other software programs:

http://www.propellerheads.se/products/record/

http://ntrack.com/

http://www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/

http://www.multitrackstudio.com/


----------



## hardasmum

I really hope you can find a piece of software you like and get operational. Getting your computer playing with your audio interface and DAW can be a pain sometimes but once it's running smoothly you'll love what you can do.

I have found sometimes being able to do so much affects creativity. I was less distracted technically with my cassette 4-track and far more creative!


----------



## david henman

...i think it has come down to finding the right software for my needs. actually, if i can find a way to edit tracks, garageband may suffice until i get to a point (like putting another band together) where i need to record more than eight tracks simultaneously.

i know what you mean by your last comment. even with my korg d3200 digital portastusio, i still spent most of my time actually being creative, and performing.

i'm confident that will continue once i figure out how to perform all the "standard" functions (punch in/out, midi etc). i'm not one to labour over kick drum choices, or even guitar sounds.




hardasmum said:


> I really hope you can find a piece of software you like and get operational. Getting your computer playing with your audio interface and DAW can be a pain sometimes but once it's running smoothly you'll love what you can do.
> 
> I have found sometimes being able to do so much affects creativity. I was less distracted technically with my cassette 4-track and far more creative!


----------



## david henman

...recording software:

sonar x1 original $100
sonar 8 studio $150
propellerhead record $200
n-track studio 6 looks excellent...
musicraft five $75

i'm convinced that somewhere out there is the right software for me: straightforward, intuitive, logical and with a user manual that doesn't require a degree in nuclear physics.


----------



## Guest

Hmm. I'd try Record. Propellerhead makes stuff that's super easy to use. I've used their Reason stuff since inception and the whole concept behind Reason was to model the physical synth interfaces as well as the sounds. Made it easier to pick up from the get go for sure.

You also might want to check out:

Digital Performer (http://www.motu.com/products/software/dp/ -- gets high marks in the usability category)

If you go in to Saved by Tech they probably have just about every bit of software installed for you to try on a machine. Also remember to try the demos.


----------



## david henman

..okay, propellerhead reason is out off the list - $400 (propellerhead essentials is $250).

mixcraft 5, for $70, looks like a good bet:

http://www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/


----------



## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ..okay, propellerhead reason is out off the list - $400 (propellerhead essentials is $250).
> 
> mixcraft 5, for $70, looks like a good bet:
> 
> http://www.acoustica.com/mixcraft/


Don't forget to check craigslist for used copies of this. You have to watch out for burned copies, but if it looks legit, with the box, dongle (if applicable), papers, etc,. that's a great way to save a few bucks. I always look for older copies of Sonar.

Having the latest and greatest isn't always the best for DAW software, since the older versions tend to be more stable even if they are less feature-packed. For instance, I'm using Sonar 8 right now on my main PC, but I have Sonar 6 installed on a different PC and there isn't much difference in terms of functionality and tools that I, personally, notice.


----------



## david henman

...if only there was a version of garageband with editing capabilities.


----------



## david henman

presonus studio one, perhaps?


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> presonus studio one, perhaps?


New on the scene. You'd be blazing trails with it. I know only what their marketing material has told me about.


----------



## Guitar101

Come on man, pick one. Were all waiting for your decision. Times a wastin...


----------



## david henman

Guitar101 said:


> Come on man, pick one. Were all waiting for your decision. Times a wastin...


...*chuckle*...taking a serious look at presonus. i've been warned against buying their hardware - kind of the 'behringer' of the daw world - but it was a presonus ad in guitar player that got me going in this direction.

i have a sense that presonus may have made computer recording a little more accessible to players...


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...*chuckle*...taking a serious look at presonus. i've been warned against buying their hardware - kind of the 'behringer' of the daw world - but it was a presonus ad in guitar player that got me going in this direction.
> 
> i have a sense that presonus may have made computer recording a little more accessible to players...


Wow. I would not have equated Presonus with Behringer. Their stuff is not stellar but it's still pretty good.


----------



## hardasmum

Have you investigated the light version of Pro Tools yet?! 

I edit all day long on it.


----------



## david henman

...and the verdit is: garageband!

i went to the apple store last night and this very young kid showed me that garageband has absolutely brilliant editing capabilities, none of which are revealed in the 122-page operating manual, for some reason.

this buys me some time - lots of time - to investigate recording software. for what i do, the kid highly recommended pro tools.


----------



## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ...and the verdit is: garageband!
> 
> i went to the apple store last night and this very young kid showed me that garageband has absolutely brilliant editing capabilities, none of which are revealed in the 122-page operating manual, for some reason.
> 
> this buys me some time - lots of time - to investigate recording software. for what i do, the kid highly recommended pro tools.


Sounds great! I'm glad you got something to work for you. Once you're up and running, there's no lookin' back


----------



## Guest

Awesome. You can use those guys at the Apple store any time. They're very helpful.



david henman said:


> ...and the verdit is: garageband!
> 
> i went to the apple store last night and this very young kid showed me that garageband has absolutely brilliant editing capabilities, none of which are revealed in the 122-page operating manual, for some reason.
> 
> this buys me some time - lots of time - to investigate recording software. for what i do, the kid highly recommended pro tools.


----------



## ronmac

Good to stick with it until you get some experience on that piece of software. If you discover in the future that you must move to something else you will be in a better position to know what it is you are missing and that will inform you of what product will be the best replacement (or supplement, as there is no rule you should just use one).


----------



## hardasmum

david henman said:


> ...and the verdit is: garageband!
> 
> for what i do, the kid highly recommended pro tools.


Ok then gee, listen to the kid in the Apple store and not to the guy who does it for a living!


----------



## david henman

hardasmum said:


> Ok then gee, listen to the kid in the Apple store and not to the guy who does it for a living!


 
...thing is, i'm listening to a LOT of guys who do this for a living. one of my recording engineers recommends cubase six. another recommends logic. yet another - nuendo. but, as i quickly discovered with reaper, these software programs take what was a relatively simple process, one that i have grown up with for almost fifty years, and turned it into a convoluted rubic's cube.

i found garageband fairly straightforward. the only reason i immediately began looking at other options was because it appeared that garageband had extremely limited editing. the kid at the apple store solved that mystery and here i am, able to move forward with composing, arranging, recording and performing my music on a computer platform without having to spend precious time and money on what is, for me, and at this time, overly complicated software.

i got off easy.


----------



## hardasmum

david henman said:


> hardasmum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok then gee, listen to the kid in the Apple store and not to the guy who does it for a living!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...thing is, i'm listening to a LOT of guys who do this for a living. one of my recording engineers recommends cubase six. another recommends logic. yet another - nuendo. but, as i quickly discovered with reaper, these software programs take what was a relatively simple process, one that i have grown up with for almost fifty years, and turned it into a convoluted rubic's cube.
> 
> i found garageband fairly straightforward. the only reason i immediately began looking at other options was because it appeared that garageband had extremely limited editing. the kid at the apple store solved that mystery and here i am, able to move forward with composing, arranging, recording and performing my music on a computer platform without having to spend precious time and money on what is, for me, and at this time, overly complicated software.
> 
> i got off easy.
Click to expand...

Just joking by the way. 

Keep in mind the process is the same as the one you grew up with. Mic a guitar, send level to "tape" and hit record. The process was just as complicated thirty years ago, aligning multitrack tape machines, calibration, editing two inch tape?! Could it be anymore frightening then that?

Just imagine the software as a tape machine and get your head round those basic operations and you can start tracking. The rest of it will come as you need it. Like a word processor you will only end up using it to 20% of what it is capable of. 

I think I mentioned before, all these DAWs will do the job once you decide on one that has the options you want. After that it's just flying time.


----------



## david henman

hardasmum said:


> Just joking by the way.


...i knew that, but it was kinda legit. but i gotta tell you, i envy that kid at the apple store. he's part of a generation that was literally born with an umbilical cord connected to the internet/computer world. i doubt that he could even explain what he does with a keypad and a mouse, it's so inherent.


----------



## hardasmum

Post edit!


----------



## david henman

hardasmum said:


> Just joking by the way.
> Keep in mind the process is the same as the one you grew up with. Mic a guitar, send level to "tape" and hit record. The process was just as complicated thirty years ago, aligning multitrack tape machines, calibration, editing two inch tape?! Could it be anymore frightening then that?
> Just imagine the software as a tape machine and get your head round those basic operations and you can start tracking. The rest of it will come as you need it. Like a word processor you will only end up using it to 20% of what it is capable of.
> I think I mentioned before, all these DAWs will do the job once you decide on one that has the options you want. After that it's just flying time.


...i dunno. i've never had to deal aligning multitrack tape machines, calibration, editing two inch tape etc. especially not in the course of sitting down to record a few tracks. it's always been a simple matter of turn on, plug in, set levels and record. and i don't know that i have ever had to reboot. 

of course, i never did figure out "routing" - that remains a complete mystery to me. 

still, i am looking forward to getting neck deep in computer recording!


----------



## mugtastic

just skimmed the last page but thought i'd give the garageband choice some support. when i was facing this situation (i was going from an all in one digital 16 track recorder to a comp based setup) i just wanted basic recording, ease of use and no silly restrictions. after finding cubase a little unstable on my mac i went with ableton live because it was user friendly and did everything i needed. at the time garageband had silly limitations like limited # of tracks recordable at a time, and limited quality settings.

now that those limits are gone garageband is an awesome simple daw. anyone who dismisses it probably hasn't really explored it, or they really take advantage of advanced features in more pro software. but as a previous poster said - most people use a very small amount of what a daw is capable of.


----------



## david henman

...the conclusion? i am definitely not ready for a computer-based setup.

unfortunately, it's too late. i've spent the money on an imac and garageband, neither of which works. 

big questions remain:

1. how did they manage to turn something i've been doing for fifty years into a complete mystery?

2. wtf?

i can predict, with 100% accuracy, that every time i turn on my computer and open garageband, something will prevent me from using it.

3. from what i can gather, the only way to resolve these issues is to keep throwing more and more money at them. i have a "guru" coming to visit on wednesday afternoon. he will install as much memory as we can manage to cram into the imac and, presumably, address a long list of issues i have compiled. but, there is absolutely no doubt in mind that, the day after his visit, i will come downstairs, power up the imac, open garageband and sit here going "wtf"?

eventually, i'll retire the imac. perhaps use it for perusing facebook or downloading porn, and go back to doing my recording the korg d3200 portastudio which, incidentally, works every time i turn it on.


----------



## Guest

David, I wish I lived closer man. I'd get you sorted out. It's not bad at all once you're over the hump.

Check Saved by Tech and the Apple Store -- they run tutorial nights, usually free, for n00bs.


----------



## hardasmum

david henman said:


> ...the conclusion? i am definitely not ready for a computer-based setup.
> 
> unfortunately, it's too late. i've spent the money on an imac and garageband, neither of which works.
> 
> big questions remain:
> 
> 1. how did they manage to turn something i've been doing for fifty years into a complete mystery?
> 
> 2. wtf?
> 
> i can predict, with 100% accuracy, that every time i turn on my computer and open garageband, something will prevent me from using it.
> 
> 3. from what i can gather, the only way to resolve these issues is to keep throwing more and more money at them. i have a "guru" coming to visit on wednesday afternoon. he will install as much memory as we can manage to cram into the imac and, presumably, address a long list of issues i have compiled. but, there is absolutely no doubt in mind that, the day after his visit, i will come downstairs, power up the imac, open garageband and sit here going "wtf"?
> 
> eventually, i'll retire the imac. perhaps use it for perusing facebook or downloading porn, and go back to doing my recording the korg d3200 portastudio which, incidentally, works every time i turn it on.


Okay. Please list your issues here, I am sure they can be resolved.

No offense but my "not very tech savvy" sister-in-law bought my ten year old niece an M-Audio lite version of Pro Tools and she's been recording her little songs for weeks. 

Surely we can sort out your issues.


----------



## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ...the conclusion? i am definitely not ready for a computer-based setup.
> 
> unfortunately, it's too late. i've spent the money on an imac and garageband, neither of which works.
> 
> big questions remain:
> 
> 1. how did they manage to turn something i've been doing for fifty years into a complete mystery?
> 
> 2. wtf?
> 
> i can predict, with 100% accuracy, that every time i turn on my computer and open garageband, something will prevent me from using it.
> 
> 3. from what i can gather, the only way to resolve these issues is to keep throwing more and more money at them. i have a "guru" coming to visit on wednesday afternoon. he will install as much memory as we can manage to cram into the imac and, presumably, address a long list of issues i have compiled. but, there is absolutely no doubt in mind that, the day after his visit, i will come downstairs, power up the imac, open garageband and sit here going "wtf"?
> 
> eventually, i'll retire the imac. perhaps use it for perusing facebook or downloading porn, and go back to doing my recording the korg d3200 portastudio which, incidentally, works every time i turn it on.


David, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason why a brand new iMac needs any more memory to run garageband to record simple tracks. NONE! Garageband isn't a hugely memory-intensive program, and if you're not running tons of VSTs (which you're not), you should be good to go to simply record.

I would seriously advise that you not pay this "guru" anything and cancel the appointment if at all possible. If the "guru's" solution is installing more RAM, then he's simply out to make a quick buck, IMO.


----------



## Kenmac

hollowbody said:


> David, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason why a brand new iMac needs any more memory to run garageband to record simple tracks. NONE! Garageband isn't a hugely memory-intensive program, and if you're not running tons of VSTs (which you're not), you should be good to go to simply record.
> 
> I would seriously advise that you not pay this "guru" anything and cancel the appointment if at all possible. If the "guru's" solution is installing more RAM, then he's simply out to make a quick buck, IMO.


I agree with this 100%. It sounds like this guy is taking advantage of you because you're new to the computer recording scene. I don't have a Mac but you don't need a lot of RAM for a program like Garageband. I'm running Reaper on my PC (which is over 4 years old now) with 1 gig of RAM and I haven't experienced any problems. Please take Hollowbodys, and others, advice. If you need any help just ask (or PM us if you feel embarrassed) with any questions you have. We don't want to see you get taken.


----------



## Guest

I missed the RAM thing. I run Logic Pro on my older iMac with only 4 GB in it and it's generally fine. You don't need much RAM really.


----------



## david henman

iaresee said:


> David, I wish I lived closer man. I'd get you sorted out. It's not bad at all once you're over the hump.
> Check Saved by Tech and the Apple Store -- they run tutorial nights, usually free, for n00bs.


...that's kind of my point - i've been doing this for fifty years and suddenly i'm a noob.


----------



## david henman

...i envy the current generation. navigating software programs is practically second nature to them.

again, as it turned out, all i needed to do was reboot. but, as someone else here pointed out, that is a clear indication that something is wrong.




hardasmum said:


> Okay. Please list your issues here, I am sure they can be resolved.
> 
> No offense but my "not very tech savvy" sister-in-law bought my ten year old niece an M-Audio lite version of Pro Tools and she's been recording her little songs for weeks.
> 
> Surely we can sort out your issues.


----------



## david henman

...i don't think he's taking advantage. i did pay him a $100 consulting fee, and this is just part of the fulfillment. he's coming to the studio on wednesday afternoon to walk me through as many issues as i can bring up. a better route might have been to try and buy the audio interface from saved by technology, in order to take advantage of their tech support, but i doubt that would have included them driving up to bolton. i'll eventually get all of this sorted out - i'm really venting, more than anything. as i said, it is frustrating to discover that something i have been doing for fifty years is suddenly beyond my reach.



Kenmac said:


> I agree with this 100%. It sounds like this guy is taking advantage of you because you're new to the computer recording scene. I don't have a Mac but you don't need a lot of RAM for a program like Garageband. I'm running Reaper on my PC (which is over 4 years old now) with 1 gig of RAM and I haven't experienced any problems. Please take Hollowbodys, and others, advice. If you need any help just ask (or PM us if you feel embarrassed) with any questions you have. We don't want to see you get taken.


----------



## shoretyus

If it helps my first attempt was hampered by a crappy but new USB cable.... that took a long time to figure out.


----------



## Guitar101

shoretyus said:


> If it helps my first attempt was hampered by a crappy but new USB cable.... that took a long time to figure out.


Let me add that a new studio mike I was trying needed the 48V phantom switch turned on and it was was giving me static. After some head scratching and a little luck (I was blaming the mic), it turned out to be the old mic cable. The cable works fine without phantom power but would not work with it. A new cable solved the problem. I guess my point is, there are many variables that need to be worked out so don't let it get you down.


----------



## Guest

David, we could look at doing a screen share and a skype session some time if you like. I might be able to help diagnose the problem remotely.

I always suspect third party stuff, so I'd start by looking at the Tascam unit.


----------



## david henman

iaresee said:


> David, we could look at doing a screen share and a skype session some time if you like. I might be able to help diagnose the problem remotely.
> I always suspect third party stuff, so I'd start by looking at the Tascam unit.


...anything is possible, but i suspect the problem is hidden among the myriad of settings and preferences hidden among the myriad of menus and editing screens. i'm expecting guru guy to resolve most of these issues so i can get beck to exploring garageband.


----------



## hollowbody

iaresee said:


> David, we could look at doing a screen share and a skype session some time if you like. I might be able to help diagnose the problem remotely.
> 
> I always suspect third party stuff, so I'd start by looking at the Tascam unit.


Agreed, there seems to be a problem with either the Tascam in terms of hardware (something just isn't working right) or software (it didn't install correctly, or it just doesn't like Lion or something). It's also possible that there is something wrong with the iMac, though this is pretty small.

I assume you don't have another computer to plug the Tascam into, but do you have a friend or relative nearby you can take the Tascam over to and see if it installs properly there?

As others mentioned, check ancillary cables and stuff to make sure those are all up to snuff.

I would recommend that if your guru can't get it up and running for you and you keep having to reboot, you should maybe start looking into returning some of this stuff. 

Have you googled to see if others are having problems with that specific Tascam unit and OSX Lion? Have you emailed Tascam directly about drivers for the US1800 for Lion? I noticed the US1800 manual says it's compatible with OSX 10.5 and 10.6, but no mention of 10.7 at the time it was printed, so driver support may be your biggest issue.


----------



## david henman

hollowbody said:


> Agreed, there seems to be a problem with either the Tascam in terms of hardware (something just isn't working right) or software (it didn't install correctly, or it just doesn't like Lion or something). It's also possible that there is something wrong with the iMac, though this is pretty small.
> I assume you don't have another computer to plug the Tascam into, but do you have a friend or relative nearby you can take the Tascam over to and see if it installs properly there?
> As others mentioned, check ancillary cables and stuff to make sure those are all up to snuff.
> I would recommend that if your guru can't get it up and running for you and you keep having to reboot, you should maybe start looking into returning some of this stuff.
> Have you googled to see if others are having problems with that specific Tascam unit and OSX Lion? Have you emailed Tascam directly about drivers for the US1800 for Lion? I noticed the US1800 manual says it's compatible with OSX 10.5 and 10.6, but no mention of 10.7 at the time it was printed, so driver support may be your biggest issue.


...basically, the entire setup consists of the imac and the tascam. it will certainly make life simpler if all i have to do is return the tascam for a new one.


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...basically, the entire setup consists of the imac and the tascam. it will certainly make life simpler if all i have to do is return the tascam for a new one.


I'd go here http://tascam.com/contact/support/ and tell them you have a US-1800 and a new iMac with Lion and want to know if the drivers for the US-1800 that are on the website (which pre-date Lion at January 2011) are Lion-compatible.


----------



## hardasmum

What's the news from your Guru?


----------



## david henman

hardasmum said:


> What's the news from your Guru?


...he had to postpone, due to a flu bug - coming on tuesday.


----------



## hardasmum

david henman said:


> hardasmum said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's the news from your Guru?
> 
> 
> 
> ...he had to postpone, due to a flu bug - coming on tuesday.
Click to expand...

I hanging in for the happy ending!


----------



## hollowbody

hardasmum said:


> I hanging in for the happy ending!


same here! I think we all want to see David get his DAW up and running to his satisfaction (and then hear the results, of course!)

Let us know!


----------



## david henman

...i spent over eight hours with my "guru" (who really knows his stuff, i think) last night, then spent a sleepless night of frsutration and anger.

so far, this has cost me over two grand, ten vacation days i can't get back, several sleepless nights, and almost two months of standing still and, at this point, i'm further behind than i was before all this began, when i was able to just go downstairs to my studio, plug in, and record.

oh, well. it's not like i have a choice. the industry has taken all other options off the table.

we intalled cubase le, which comes with the tascam interface, and he gave me a quick tutorial.

i'll download the manual and try. again. tonight.


----------



## david henman

...forget the manual - 600 pages!!!


----------



## hardasmum

david henman said:


> ...forget the manual - 600 pages!!!


Quick start guide!!!
http://www.steinberg.net/en/support/downloads/downloads_cubase_6.html


----------



## hollowbody

hardasmum said:


> Quick start guide!!!
> http://www.steinberg.net/en/support/downloads/downloads_cubase_6.html


+1!!

Forget the manual, David. Most of it will detail very specific things that you will almost never use. If you want to do something, just check the index for what you're looking for and read up on that specific section, forget going through the whole thing!


----------



## hummingway

david henman said:


> ...i don't think he's taking advantage. i did pay him a $100 consulting fee, and this is just part of the fulfillment. he's coming to the studio on wednesday afternoon to walk me through as many issues as i can bring up. a better route might have been to try and buy the audio interface from saved by technology, in order to take advantage of their tech support, but i doubt that would have included them driving up to bolton. i'll eventually get all of this sorted out - i'm really venting, more than anything. as i said, it is frustrating to discover that something i have been doing for fifty years is suddenly beyond my reach.


If you are going to make the switch you have to change the way you think about much of this stuff. I was an early adopter, beginning with midi in the early 80's but didn't go off tape until the mid 90's. You no longer use a razor blade for edits and live mixes become a thing of the past. You may find yourself printing external effects and you don't saturate tape with your bass and kick. Digital distortion is not musical so you have to leave more headroom but then the S/N gives you plenty of floor. 

The interfaces can be problematic. I run all kinds of them and have dealt with a myriad of problems in various ways. The ADA's have proven one of the more challenging. I've had two interfaces burn out but am very happy with what I'm running now. My last one, made by TCElectronics, had marvelous audio quality but I wrestled with sync problems for a long time. Finally got it all worked out only to have a chip failure. I run Steinberg's Nuendo so decided to use Steinberg's interface and I'm very happy with it. 

Things that help with interfaces: turn off networking, the interrupts may supersede the audio; make sure you have an approved card manufacturer for the interface; kill all unnecessary OS services; plugins can cause interface problems so you may have to experiment.

It goes on and I don't want to give the wrong idea, there are more reasons to do it then not but until your system is properly configured patience is a virtue.


----------



## david henman

hardasmum said:


> Quick start guide!!!
> http://www.steinberg.net/en/support/downloads/downloads_cubase_6.html


...got it, thanks, and it does look managable!


----------



## david henman

hollowbody said:


> +1!!
> 
> Forget the manual, David. Most of it will detail very specific things that you will almost never use. If you want to do something, just check the index for what you're looking for and read up on that specific section, forget going through the whole thing!


...the methodical approach. hopefully, my guru guy got rid of all the bugs, bad setting etc last night and i can navigate the learning curve without constantly screaming wtf? every time there's no sound, no response or no input signal.


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...the methodical approach. hopefully, my guru guy got rid of all the bugs, bad setting etc last night and i can navigate the learning curve without constantly screaming wtf? every time there's no sound, no response or no input signal.


Did you do some recording with him there?


----------



## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ...the methodical approach. hopefully, my guru guy got rid of all the bugs, bad setting etc last night and i can navigate the learning curve without constantly screaming wtf? every time there's no sound, no response or no input signal.


Haha, this will plague you forever, it will always be _something_!

The other day I sat down to record on my DAW that works pretty much all the time and had no sound coming in. In the end it was my fault, but I suspected the machine and poked around settings for a while until I realized that I hadn't plugged my guitar in


----------



## david henman

...the reason i have to constantly reboot is because when i power off, or just go to sleep mode, the connection to the audio interface is lost - it goes to sleep as well. this doesn't happen with microsoft windows, evidently.

so, i have to keep the machine on and the screen lit 24-7.

i actually managed to record a guitar track last night. pretty good for a guy who's been doing this for fifty years, dontcha think?

now that i have spent some time with both reaper and cubase, i have to say that i am impressed - i don't think they could have made this process any more complicated.


----------



## Guest

Could you not just unplug the audio interface from the USB port when you're done? Plug it back in when you're ready to record?

Like I said earlier: I suspected the Tascam stuff. There are better options out there...


----------



## hollowbody

Can you not set your monitor to go to sleep, but keep the CPU and drives awake? Unless you're really concerned about power consumption, that should take care of it.


----------



## david henman

iaresee said:


> Could you not just unplug the audio interface from the USB port when you're done? Plug it back in when you're ready to record?
> Like I said earlier: I suspected the Tascam stuff. There are better options out there...



...according to my guru guy, it's the imac OS that causes this. 

i like the tascam because what i need it to do at an affordable price, which included cubase le.

one of my fears about this transition was that it would be a money pit. i was right. but, they succeeded in killing the portastudio industry, so what choice do i have.

by the way, i'm predicting a portastudio revival, in the not too distant!


----------



## david henman

hollowbody said:


> Can you not set your monitor to go to sleep, but keep the CPU and drives awake? Unless you're really concerned about power consumption, that should take care of it.


...evidently not. in fact, guru guy reset the imac so that it no longer automatically goes to sleep.


----------



## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ...evidently not. in fact, guru guy reset the imac so that it no longer automatically goes to sleep.


Yeah, that's the other option. I find it strange though that iOS doesn't allow you to configure different power schemes for the monitor vs. the rest of the box. Or maybe it does and you just haven't discovered it? Ian? Any insight on this?


----------



## hummingway

Just turn your monitor off when your not using it. It reduces the EMF anyway, if you're using a guitar pickup near it.  I use windows so I'm sure many things are different but screen savers and any OS services that aren't really needed to do what you're doing just cause problems and are best turned off.


----------



## hollowbody

hummingway said:


> Just turn your monitor off when your not using it. It reduces the EMF anyway, if you're using a guitar pickup near it.  I use windows so I'm sure many things are different but screen savers and any OS services that aren't really needed to do what you're doing just cause problems and are best turned off.


I think the prob is with the iMac, you only have one power button for everything, so you can't just shut the monitor off.


----------



## david henman

...i have a feeling that the imac doesn't allow you to turn off the monitor.


----------



## david henman

...just reading a few comments on presonus studio one on gearslutz.

evidently, despite the fact that i am 63 and have been doing this for some fifty-odd years, i am a "beginner".

i get a clear sense that it is not meant as a compliment.

i actually admire people who have learned to create on a computer, using digital technology.


----------



## david henman

hollowbody said:


> I think the prob is with the iMac, you only have one power button for everything, so you can't just shut the monitor off.


...is there any risk of burn-in?


----------



## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ...is there any risk of burn-in?


I just don't know enough about Mac displays to comment on this, but if it's an LCD/LED type display there always a small risk. 

Apple seems to say you can get rid of it if it happens, but if you are running a screen-saver while the machine is not being used, it should be fine.


----------



## hardasmum

I always turn my iMac off to plug in my Mbox (USB) and then power back up. This started because of a known issue with Pro Tools/Digidesign/AVID causing the iMac to freeze up if left unused for any length of time. 

After a year or more a fix was released by Digidesign/AVID but I don't trust it and continue to shutdown to plug in/out.

Not a huge deal to me. Tune guitar, make a coffee, urinate. 

That way you can set your computer to sleep and save your monitor.

Also there are separate settings to put monitor to sleep versus the hard drives.


----------



## Guest

hollowbody said:


> Yeah, that's the other option. I find it strange though that iOS doesn't allow you to configure different power schemes for the monitor vs. the rest of the box. Or maybe it does and you just haven't discovered it? Ian? Any insight on this?


It's configurable. System Preferences -> Energy Saver. This is from my MBPro, but it looks about the same on my iMac. These are the settings David would want to try:










That'll save your monitor but should keep your Tascam box powered up.

You really want to see if you can find a second hand MoTU or Apogee box, David. Much better boxes. WAAAAAY better drivers and USB/FireWire chipsets. Sure, they cost a bit more, but look at the frustration you save on. I *never* reboot my iMac and it's always up and ready to record in a few clicks of a mouse when I need it. I use Apogee hardware for my audio interface.


----------



## hardasmum

iaresee said:


> hollowbody said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, that's the other option. I find it strange though that iOS doesn't allow you to configure different power schemes for the monitor vs. the rest of the box. Or maybe it does and you just haven't discovered it? Ian? Any insight on this?
> 
> 
> 
> It's configurable. System Preferences -> Energy Saver. This is from my MBPro, but it looks about the same on my iMac. These are the settings David would want to try:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That'll save your monitor but should keep your Tascam box powered up.
> 
> You really want to see if you can find a second hand MoTU or Apogee box, David. Much better boxes. WAAAAAY better drivers and USB/FireWire chipsets. Sure, they cost a bit more, but look at the frustration you save on. I *never* reboot my iMac and it's always up and ready to record in a few clicks of a mouse when I need it. I use Apogee hardware for my audio interface.
Click to expand...

Apogee are the bee's knees in A/D conversion.


----------



## Guest

hardasmum said:


> Apogee are the bee's knees in A/D conversion.


More importantly: the write rock solid drivers and use top-notch chipsets. As David is finding out, there is a large chasm in software quality and hardware quality that you need to cross before things really do Just Work when it comes to pro audio.


----------



## david henman

iaresee said:


> It's configurable. System Preferences -> Energy Saver. This is from my MBPro, but it looks about the same on my iMac. These are the settings David would want to try:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That'll save your monitor but should keep your Tascam box powered up.
> 
> You really want to see if you can find a second hand MoTU or Apogee box, David. Much better boxes. WAAAAAY better drivers and USB/FireWire chipsets. Sure, they cost a bit more, but look at the frustration you save on. I *never* reboot my iMac and it's always up and ready to record in a few clicks of a mouse when I need it. I use Apogee hardware for my audio interface.


 
...that's what amazes me about this: i keep having to sink more and more money into this, just to get up and running. 

remember, i'm not competing with multi-million dollar recording studios here. all i need to do is record raw, unprocessed, unmixed tracks, maybe do a little basic editing and punch-ins.

the tascam, for $300, gives me sixteen inputs.


----------



## david henman

...apogee ensemble: two grand.

*expletive deleted*


----------



## david henman

iaresee said:


> More importantly: the write rock solid drivers and use top-notch chipsets. As David is finding out, there is a large chasm in software quality and hardware quality that you need to cross before things really do Just Work when it comes to pro audio.


...i'm also discovering that i didn't have to deal with ANY of these issues with either my $800 tascam 2488 or my $1200 korg d3200. both of which "just worked" every time i turned them on.

i'm convinced that nothing "just works" in computer recording. unless i throw enough money at it.


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> the tascam, for $300, gives me sixteen inputs.


Sixteen inputs but shitty drivers. Choose your poison.  I'm sorry, but that Tascan is a toy. Really. And you're finding out how well toys perform. You just can't have it cheap, with lots of I/O *and* rock solid. Not in this space. Like British cars: you can have wipers, heat or lights -- choose two. 

But seriously, you can get a MoTU unit on the used market for about $500 that'll meet your needs and not crap out every time your computer goes to sleep. nkjanssen was selling a nice Traveller or 828MkII on here a few months back that would have been perfect.

I didn't jump straight in to the setup I have now. I started out smaller and traded up over the years. For a long time I was running tower PC with Cubase SX 3 and an M-Audio 2496 card for I/O. Nothing fancy about that. But once I got it working, it worked great and I could work fast in it. But it took time.

I'm not saying you run out an buy an ensemble (I use a Duet BTW), but that for an incremental bit of additional money you could get a stable unit that has the I/O you need (maybe not 16 mic pres, but at least 8 and plenty of expansion room on an ADAT or AES channel).


----------



## Guest

david henman said:


> ...i'm also discovering that i didn't have to deal with ANY of these issues with either my $800 tascam 2488 or my $1200 korg d3200. both of which "just worked" every time i turned them on.


There's a wonderful simplicity to those units, for sure. If that's what you need, man don't give it up. Use what works for you.

I use a D3200 to run all our backing tracks off for the Duran Duran tribute thing I'm (still) working on. Works well enough for audio. Doesn't support any MIDI sequencing though so I end up doing all the tracking on my iMac + Logic + Duet setup, bouncing the tracks and importing them in to the Korg. I don't think I could ever work for long hours staring at the tiny screen on the Korg the way I do with the iMac setup. But for mixing on the fly while we're playing the tactile controls on the Korg are excellent and it only chews up 3 inputs on our main mixing desk (stereo for the main track output + one more mono line for the click track).

Tools and jobs, tools and jobs. Right ones and wrong ones.


----------



## hardasmum

I/O is the costly issue here unfortunately. If you only needed two in / two out you'd be laughing. 

I have to be honest, you can't include the cost of the computer in your expenses. That's just the cost of doing business these days and serves so many more functions than just a DAW.

If you think about it that way you spent
$300 on your rig, $500 less than you did on your 2488.


----------



## hummingway

hardasmum said:


> I/O is the costly issue here unfortunately. If you only needed two in / two out you'd be laughing.
> 
> I have to be honest, you can't include the cost of the computer in your expenses. That's just the cost of doing business these days and serves so many more functions than just a DAW.
> 
> If you think about it that way you spent
> $300 on your rig, $500 less than you did on your 2488.


I don't use the computer I record with for anything else. It's a rack mounted quad core with whisper quiet fans and very fast drives and using it for anything else wouldn't make sense for me. It would just be asking for trouble. To some degree you get what you pay for although sometimes you pay for it only to find you didn't get it!

Devices like the 2488 are wonderful. Very convenient, portable etc. but the ADA's aren't very good and the unit isn't that flexible. If you ever tried to transfer tracks to another computer you'll know the meaning of patience but for ease of use, short boot times and bang for the buck it's great.

An inexpensive audio interface should still work, just don't expect it work as well or give you the same facilities. They aren't going to put the time into assuring compatibility with various software. So it goes!


----------



## 4345567

_____________


----------



## david henman

...okay, enough is enough. i am not sinking one more penny into any technology that actually PREVENTS me from doing what i am supposed to be doing.

i've come to realize that this technology is designed for engineers, not musicians.

i downloaded reaper and, in the end, if gave me a renewed appreciation for garageband.

i installed cubase and, surprise, it gave me a renewed appreciation for garageband.

by all of these standards, garageband is considered a "toy", and i am considered to be a newbie. a beginner. 

fine. i just want to get back to writing, arranging and recording. garageband allows me to do that, and i if i have a question, i can find the answer in the help window. in a language i can understand.

in both reaper and cubase, words like arrangement simply do not exist.

i'm fine with toys. i have never fancied myself a mixer, nor a mastering engineer. i have no interest in drum loops that i haven't painstakingly programmed, one hit at a time.

i don't have the kind of time this apparently requires. 

my time is precious, and i'm in danger of running out of it.

if i have to, i'll go out and buy a couple more portastudios, and drum machines, and reassign the imac to downloading porn.

for now, i'll stick with garageband.


----------



## hardasmum

david henman said:


> ...okay, enough is enough. i am not sinking one more penny into any technology that actually PREVENTS me from doing what i am supposed to be doing.
> 
> i've come to realize that this technology is designed for engineers, not musicians.
> 
> i downloaded reaper and, in the end, if gave me a renewed appreciation for garageband.
> 
> i installed cubase and, surprise, it gave me a renewed appreciation for garageband.
> 
> by all of these standards, garageband is considered a "toy", and i am considered to be a newbie. a beginner.
> 
> fine. i just want to get back to writing, arranging and recording. garageband allows me to do that, and i if i have a question, i can find the answer in the help window. in a language i can understand.
> 
> in both reaper and cubase, words like arrangement simply do not exist.
> 
> i'm fine with toys. i have never fancied myself a mixer, nor a mastering engineer. i have no interest in drum loops that i haven't painstakingly programmed, one hit at a time.
> 
> i don't have the kind of time this apparently requires.
> 
> my time is precious, and i'm in danger of running out of it.
> 
> if i have to, i'll go out and buy a couple more portastudios, and drum machines, and reassign the imac to downloading porn.
> 
> for now, i'll stick with garageband.


I'd say that is great news! I said in an earlier post whatever works for you software wise. You'll probably grow to love GarageBand especially if it gets you back to making music. I've never been more creative than I was with my first 4-track cassette machine.
I am guilty of getting caught up programming loops to play over! 

There is a way to export GarageBand sessions to Pro Tools if the need ever arises.

Have fun! - not even a hint of sarcasm here  

ps. If it's any consolation I have been using Pro Tools every single day for over ten years and younger guys come in all the time that know the software better than me. It never ends.


----------



## Guest

David: the toy comment I made was in reference to that Tascam interface.

I think GarageBand is awesome.


----------



## Guest

nkjanssen said:


> Yep. An 828mkII. I think I ended up getting $300. Rock solid unit. I think it had 10 analog ins and 12 analog outs, plus an ADAT i/o that I used to plug a Behringer ADA8000 into for a total of 18 analog inputs and 20 analog outputs.


What a steal! Keep your eyes open for something like this David. Serious step up in interface quality over the Tascam.


----------



## hummingway

I hear people say things like "the new technology makes it easy to record a cd at home" and I don't think it's true. It makes it possible and a lot less expensive but if it's going to sound good there's still a lot to know. I made my first recording around 1972 on my dad's stereo reel to reel. In order to do an overdub I taped over one of the record heads so it wouldn't erase. The play heads were a bit behind the record heads so I had to play slightly out of sync to get the timing right. Home recording has come a long way since then, mine has anyway .


----------



## david henman

...i do appreciate how patient you guys have been with me.

at least with garageband, if i upgrade to logic, or perhaps even pro tools, i should be able to export my work to the new software.





hardasmum said:


> I'd say that is great news! I said in an earlier post whatever works for you software wise. You'll probably grow to love GarageBand especially if it gets you back to making music. I've never been more creative than I was with my first 4-track cassette machine.
> I am guilty of getting caught up programming loops to play over!
> 
> There is a way to export GarageBand sessions to Pro Tools if the need ever arises.
> 
> Have fun! - not even a hint of sarcasm here
> 
> ps. If it's any consolation I have been using Pro Tools every single day for over ten years and younger guys come in all the time that know the software better than me. It never ends.


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## hardasmum

david henman said:


> ...i do appreciate how patient you guys have been with me.
> 
> at least with garageband, if i upgrade to logic, or perhaps even pro tools, i should be able to export my work to the new software.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hardasmum said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say that is great news! I said in an earlier post whatever works for you software wise. You'll probably grow to love GarageBand especially if it gets you back to making music. I've never been more creative than I was with my first 4-track cassette machine.
> I am guilty of getting caught up programming loops to play over!
> 
> There is a way to export GarageBand sessions to Pro Tools if the need ever arises.
> 
> Have fun! - not even a hint of sarcasm here
> 
> ps. If it's any consolation I have been using Pro Tools every single day for over ten years and younger guys come in all the time that know the software better than me. It never ends.
Click to expand...

I think we all feel your frustration and just want to see you get back to making music!


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## david henman

hardasmum said:


> I think we all feel your frustration and just want to see you get back to making music!


...no kidding!!!

you know, if i was a mixing/recording engineer, i would DEMAND the level of power, flexibility, control etc that is provided by reaper, cubase, logic, pro tools, nuendo etc.

but i'm not. i just want to get some ideas down, with as little fuss as possible.

the door has been closed on multitrack portastudios, so i have to move with the tide.

surely, with the absolute universe of technology available, there exists at least manufacturer out there who appreciates that not all of us want this process to be as difficult and compliacted as humanly possible.


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## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ...no kidding!!!
> 
> you know, if i was a mixing/recording engineer, i would DEMAND the level of power, flexibility, control etc that is provided by reaper, cubase, logic, pro tools, nuendo etc.
> 
> but i'm not. i just want to get some ideas down, with as little fuss as possible.
> 
> the door has been closed on multitrack portastudios, so i have to move with the tide.
> 
> surely, with the absolute universe of technology available, there exists at least manufacturer out there who appreciates that not all of us want this process to be as difficult and compliacted as humanly possible.


Honestly, David, I'm just as frustrated as you are at this point. I can't believe the problems you're having with your setup, especially after all you've done and tried.

I guess I should consider myself lucky that my trusty M-Audio 410 and various PCs throughout the years have seemed to just work without too much fuss, or at least an acceptable amount of fuss.

I've been considering moving to a Digi Rack or MOTU for the better pres and more flexibility, but now I'm wondering if it's not in my best interest to leave well enough alone.

I sincerely DO hope things work out for you and you're able to get your DAW working in a way that's acceptable to you.


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## david henman

...the major problem for me has been the language barrier, not the least of which is wondering why hell one was even created.


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## hummingway

I realize you don't want to spend more money but as an afterthought something like this might have worked well for you:http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/hd16_8/

I've never used any Zoom products but their ability to put a lot of functionality into a cheap package has always impressed me.


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## hardasmum

david henman said:


> ...the major problem for me has been the language barrier, not the least of which is wondering why hell one was even created.


I sometimes forget the learning curve associated with learning new software. I was lucky enough to learn Pro Tools on the job 40 hours per week over ten plus years. 

It wasn't learned a few hours a week after a long day at work, once the dishes were done and the kids had gone to bed. In that scenario all you really want to do is unwind and be creative.

This thread reminded me of a freelance gig I did a few years ago. I was recording a pianist and vocalist at a smaller studio. For some reason I had to record to Digital Performer even though I had asked to use Pro Tools.

The studio owner gave me a basic run through of how to create a session and go into record but that was about it. I was literally dripping with sweat during the session, I had no idea what I was doing. The producer asked me to cut a couple of piano takes together. I just stared at the screen and admitted it would take me thirty seconds in Pro Tools but I had no idea how to do it in DP. I told her I knew it was possible but I'd have to read the manual to find out!

Embarrassing!


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## david henman

hummingway said:


> I realize you don't want to spend more money but as an afterthought something like this might have worked well for you:http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/hd16_8/
> 
> I've never used any Zoom products but their ability to put a lot of functionality into a cheap package has always impressed me.


...before i bought the korg d3200, i considered zoom. the korg is amazing - you can record up to 12 tracks at once, and it has great preamps.

i have limited workspace, which i will be restricting to the imac, keyboard, mouse and midi keyboard. i'll hang onto the korg, perhaps use it for remote recording.

i'll probably need to upgrade from the tascam us-1800 audio interface, but i'm determined to get as much use from it as i can in the meantime.


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## hummingway

hardasmum said:


> I sometimes forget the learning curve associated with learning new software. I was lucky enough to learn Pro Tools on the job 40 hours per week over ten plus years.
> 
> It wasn't learned a few hours a week after a long day at work, once the dishes were done and the kids had gone to bed. In that scenario all you really want to do is unwind and be creative.
> 
> This thread reminded me of a freelance gig I did a few years ago. I was recording a pianist and vocalist at a smaller studio. For some reason I had to record to Digital Performer even though I had asked to use Pro Tools.
> 
> The studio owner gave me a basic run through of how to create a session and go into record but that was about it. I was literally dripping with sweat during the session, I had no idea what I was doing. The producer asked me to cut a couple of piano takes together. I just stared at the screen and admitted it would take me thirty seconds in Pro Tools but I had no idea how to do it in DP. I told her I knew it was possible but I'd have to read the manual to find out!
> 
> Embarrassing!


Yeah. I don't remember what year I started with Steinberg but probably about 1985 on the Atari ST. I had transitioned from a dedicated Yamaha computer but those days the programs were much simpler. I now use Nuendo but not because I think it's any better then other products. Any time I look at other audio programs I just don't feel like figuring them out. Advanced audio programs are very complex to say the least.


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## david henman

...yet another ordeal i never had to deal with until i decided that recording on a computer was a good idea:

recorded a wonderful guitar track last night, looked up at the screen and saw the words "garageband has unexpectedly quit".

yeah, i know the drill. spend more money...


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## david henman

hardasmum said:


> I think we all feel your frustration and just want to see you get back to making music!



...i have to believe that will eventually happen, just not any time soon.


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## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ...yet another ordeal i never had to deal with until i decided that recording on a computer was a good idea:
> 
> recorded a wonderful guitar track last night, looked up at the screen and saw the words "garageband has unexpectedly quit".
> 
> yeah, i know the drill. spend more money...


in this, at least, i can feel your pain. I've had numerous good takes ruined by audio dropout. However, it's my fault for running other apps in the background, or running too many VSTs, etc. 

The program crashing is a different problem, though. There was no explanation for why the program stopped working?


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## david henman

hollowbody said:


> in this, at least, i can feel your pain. I've had numerous good takes ruined by audio dropout. However, it's my fault for running other apps in the background, or running too many VSTs, etc.
> 
> The program crashing is a different problem, though. There was no explanation for why the program stopped working?



...not that i could see. i just rebooted and took a pass on doing any more recording for the night. again...


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## david henman

...still cruising along nicely with garageband.

i think most of my issues now are with the imac, and the fact that i paid a consultant $200 and i'm no further ahead.

i'll keep searching for a guy who knows his way around a mac and would be willing to stop by and spend a couple of hours troubleshooting.


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## Guest

david henman said:


> ...still cruising along nicely with garageband.
> 
> i think most of my issues now are with the imac, and the fact that i paid a consultant $200 and i'm no further ahead.
> 
> i'll keep searching for a guy who knows his way around a mac and would be willing to stop by and spend a couple of hours troubleshooting.


Well...if you're ever in Ottawa...I'll happily consult for pints of Beau's.... 

Actually, we could always do a remote session and the Skype for voice.


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## david henman

...recording on a computer (garageband) is working out as expected. i can get a song finished in about an hour or two, with all the trimmings. 

the ease of editing was always the main attraction.

so, is there anything i miss about recording on a portastudio?

just one thing, and its a biggie: being able to use a footswitch to hit record!

now i have to hold the mouse and the guitar pick at the same time, hit record and be ready to play on the four count.

i'm sure the manufacturers will resolve this, as soon as they allow real musicians to get involved in the design of the software.

in the meantime, i'm having a lot of fun with this, and i'm finally able to say that my time is spent productively.


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## hummingway

david henman said:


> ...recording on a computer (garageband) is working out as expected. i can get a song finished in about an hour or two, with all the trimmings.
> 
> the ease of editing was always the main attraction.
> 
> so, is there anything i miss about recording on a portastudio?
> 
> just one thing, and its a biggie: being able to use a footswitch to hit record!
> 
> now i have to hold the mouse and the guitar pick at the same time, hit record and be ready to play on the four count.
> 
> i'm sure the manufacturers will resolve this, as soon as they allow real musicians to get involved in the design of the software.
> 
> in the meantime, i'm having a lot of fun with this, and i'm finally able to say that my time is spent productively.


Have you checked to see if your software has a preroll function? Punch points?


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## david henman

hummingway said:


> Have you checked to see if your software has a preroll function? Punch points?


...i believe it has punch points, but i find that time-consuming for most applications, unless i'm setting up to track several takes of a solo, for example.

the only pre-roll i've found on garageband is an unmodifiable four-count.


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## shoretyus

Got a wireless mouse?


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## david henman

shoretyus said:


> Got a wireless mouse?


...yep, which helps somewhat.

overall, though, it is an awkward process, especially when i'm recording a full band.

i miss being able to arm the recorder then stomp on a footswitch.


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## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ...yep, which helps somewhat.
> 
> overall, though, it is an awkward process, especially when i'm recording a full band.
> 
> i miss being able to arm the recorder then stomp on a footswitch.


Yeah, i hate that too. I'm looking to pick up a Digi 002 or maybe the 003, both of which have footswitch inputs. There are other interfaces that support footswitches as well.


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