# Is this actually for real?? (Henry Kaiser)



## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

I just came across this guy the other day and I can't tell if he is for real and if people actually enjoy listening to this? I'm all for express yourself and do things you enjoy but if he can have a career I think anyone on this forum has a chance at it!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Actually, Kaiser has a lot of respect among progressive players. He's recorded with a number of "name" players, Nels Cline, David Lindley, and Richard Thompson, to name a few. He's been written up in _Guitar Player_ a number of times over the years. 

That said, he's one of those players that if you don't live in NYC or somewhere similar, and attend "art" shows held in a loft or some underground facility, is probably of little interest. If one does not consider Sonic Youth as the epitome of rock, you're not gonna go out of your way to listen to Kaiser.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> ....you're not gonna go out of your way to listen to Kaiser.


My name is on the top of that list.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

In the second vid, the guy sitting is Alexander Dumble.

I think that Kaiser had a rich daddy.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I've seen the second vid before, it speaks for itself. Great stuff. The first vid is new to me and I'm left wondering where I can go to get the bass players outfit. The glasses alone make him cooler than a stoned Cash eating cake under a fake fern.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

greco said:


> My name is on the top of that list.


I hope you don't mind if I put my name beside yours.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

He's playing a gig in jogging pants, didn't even need the volume to decide it sucked!


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

Can I swear? Wholly fuck thats brutal!


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

Kaiser steel, Kaiser aluminum, the Kaiser automobile company 

p


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

I like some things. I generally find reasons to appreciate other things, even when I don't like them. It is rare that I come across something that I completely dislike and can't find any reason to appreciate.

How do I get these last few minutes of my life back?


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

To be polite, there is certainly some room for improvement.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Tail wags dog? 

At least it aint another 12-bar. Or was it?


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## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

Another observation is, at no point should a bass guitar have a whammy bar haha. The first video sounds like they are doing a rendition of twinkle twinkle little star... but each doing a different version.


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## dmc69 (Jan 20, 2011)

Don't worry stuff nowadays is not a whole ton better. Found this on my Facebook. 


__
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Furnotsean%2Fa-pot-of-golden-rainbows


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## Gimper (Jan 14, 2016)

"_Sounds like some crazy little demon came along and grabbed the wang bar and did something insane with it."_

... LoL. Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

WTF? I kind of was done at 37th second...


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

"It's got a great beat but it's hard to dance to".


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Kaiser is a fixture in San Fran and is part of the free improvisation movement which basically advocates that there are no rules to music except what the artist can imagine.

To sum it up, he fucking sucks.


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## fretzel (Aug 8, 2014)

Beatniks and LSD don't mix!


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

This reminds me of a story Jake E. Lee told in one of the guitar mags in the 80s...he was in a fusion band, and he suspected the guys in it were avant garde for the sake of being avant garde, so one day he played something that had nothing to do with anything the rest of the band was doing. They loved it, so he quit.

Now if they played it exactly that way at numerous shows, it might be art in some way, but this seemed to me to be being avant garde for the sake of being avant garde.


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

Wow, just wow. No one has even commented on the bass player's hilarious sunglasses? That was the highlight of the first video for me.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Lord-Humongous said:


> Wow, just wow. No one has even commented on the bass player's hilarious sunglasses? That was the highlight of the first video for me.


got you covered, bro

post #5


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

mhammer said:


> Actually, Kaiser has a lot of respect among progressive players. He's recorded with a number of "name" players, Nels Cline, David Lindley, and Richard Thompson, to name a few. He's been written up in _Guitar Player_ a number of times over the years.
> 
> That said, he's one of those players that if you don't live in NYC or somewhere similar, and attend "art" shows held in a loft or some underground facility, is probably of little interest. If one does not consider Sonic Youth as the epitome of rock, you're not gonna go out of your way to listen to Kaiser.


I dunno about that. Sure there's some elements or techniques common to Noise Rock in there, but he's much too jazzy for Sonic Youth fans to get into en masse, though I'm sure the odd few would dig. It's kinda like the difference between Robert Nighthawk and a Blues Dad from the 905.

That first vid is a great advertisement for the Kahler bass trem tho (those things have their die hard fans; very loyal user base, but showing up to an audition with one could be automatic grounds for rejection in some circles).


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

One advantage is your guitar can be out of tune and it would not matter.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Amazing tone and technique.....no, wait...I think I'm having a stroke.MJF$#


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

That 2nd vid always shows up on forums in every other Dumble thread followed by several pages of well-deserved WTF. Never saw the first, guess I wasn't inspired to search more Kaiser after enduring that Dumble vid.

I'm still amazed Dumble attained such massive reverence despite the existence of this video.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

This is just another instance when the braindead simply don't get it.

Throw on your radio junk and continue to keep your mind unchallenged and sheltered.

If unicorns were music, this would be it.


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## J-75 (Jul 29, 2010)

Melody, Harmony, Rhythm.. Take away all three and this is what you're left with.

Aside: I grew up in TO. I always felt that the city's artistic faction tried to engineer culture, rather than let it evolve naturally, as happens in other places and times. I remember going to a performance hosted by a prominent person in the national music community. The venue was what appeared to be an abandoned downtown warehouse. I won't bother with details, apart from that the "drummer" had a full kit, but without drumsticks. Instead, he had a variety of objects which he chose, individually, to throw/rub/scrape randomly on the drum heads, believing that the variety of sonic 'textures' would be more interesting than any semblance of rhythm. The combo also included a pair of gymnasts slinking around a 3-D trellis construction. How very 'Avant-Garde' (is that how it WAS spelled?).

Another less-than-fulfilling incident was listening to a prominent (I wont mention the name) player, perform some obviously homemade construct (no, I can't call it a tune) at a venue some of you may have attended a few years ago. It was an agglomeration of notes played on a Jazzmaster, frequently using a rat-tail file, rather than a pick. My thoughts were, 'It's enough to make our ears suffer, but why take it out on the poor instrument?"


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Rollin Hand said:


> This reminds me of a story Jake E. Lee told in one of the guitar mags in the 80s...he was in a fusion band, and he suspected the guys in it were avant garde for the sake of being avant garde, so one day he played something that had nothing to do with anything the rest of the band was doing. They loved it, so he quit.
> 
> Now if they played it exactly that way at numerous shows, it might be art in some way, but this seemed to me to be being avant garde for the sake of being avant garde.


See that's silly to me - he might have been trying to play something wrong; but it wouldn't have been the first time someone accidentally wrote a good lick when trying to fuck shit up on purpose. And there isn't anything wrong with intentionally trying to push boundaries (I'll take that any day over intentionally refusing to push any boundaries at all - again, e.g. Blues Dads and also a friend I used to play with : we were covering Toots Hibbert and I wanted to shorten the turnaround from "Give it to me 1/2/3/4 time" to just 1 and 3 and he was like, "but you can't just skip 2, it makes no sense; Toots would never do that" at which point I knew it wouldn't work out between us musically, but he was much better than me, could sight read and had theory down pat etc ..... incidentally a few years later I saw Toots live and he went 1 time, 2 time, 3 time , 10 time, and I felt totally vindicated).

There's a difference between someone who can't play (e.g. this dude: youtube.com/channel/UCIMS8Y678zwAuT1vSeKrZpQ) and someone with chops who isn't isn't trying to proove it to you all the time/playing to the song vs their skill level/having fun with it.

What I don't like about that first vid up top is how its trying to be all free jazzy (and they're supposed to be improvers), but fails because they're so locked in playing the same thing (at least for the first bit before I stopped watching); what's the point of being avant-guarde if the bass is just following the guitar roots anyway; even punks do better than that half the time. ... also the jogging pants (I have only seen that once before on stage; never a good idea)

Then again, I do feel like this (it's an art snob con) myself when it comes to about 1/2 of the noise bands I've encountered in my travels.



Rick31797 said:


> One advantage is your guitar can be out of tune and it would not matter.


I find this sort of thing totally ignorant - it sucks because I'm not into it.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> See that's silly to me - he might have been trying to play something wrong; but it wouldn't have been the first time someone accidentally wrote a good lick when trying to fuck shit up on purpose. And there isn't anything wrong with intentionally trying to push boundaries (I'll take that any day over intentionally refusing to push any boundaries at all - again, e.g. Blues Dads and also a friend I used to play with : we were covering Toots Hibbert and I wanted to shorten the turnaround from "Give it to me 1/2/3/4 time" to just 1 and 3 and he was like, "but you can't just skip 2, it makes no sense; Toots would never do that" at which point I knew it wouldn't work out between us musically, but he was much better than me, could sight read and had theory down pat etc ..... incidentally a few years later I saw Toots live and he went 1 time, 2 time, 3 time , 10 time, and I felt totally vindicated).
> 
> There's a difference between someone who can't play (e.g. this dude: youtube.com/channel/UCIMS8Y678zwAuT1vSeKrZpQ) and someone with chops who isn't isn't trying to proove it to you all the time/playing to the song vs their skill level/having fun with it.
> 
> ...



I do not really care what you think, it really does suck...lol, I really believe i am with the majority.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Yeah, and the majority is always right. [eyeroll]

... also if you really don't care, why respond ;P


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

J-75 said:


> Melody, Harmony, Rhythm.. Take away all three and this is what you're left with.
> 
> Aside: I grew up in TO. I always felt that the city's artistic faction tried to engineer culture, rather than let it evolve naturally, as happens in other places and times. I remember going to a performance hosted by a prominent person in the national music community. The venue was what appeared to be an abandoned downtown warehouse. I won't bother with details, apart from that the "drummer" had a full kit, but without drumsticks. Instead, he had a variety of objects which he chose, individually, to throw/rub/scrape randomly on the drum heads, believing that the variety of sonic 'textures' would be more interesting than any semblance of rhythm. The combo also included a pair of gymnasts slinking around a 3-D trellis construction. How very 'Avant-Garde' (is that how it WAS spelled?).
> 
> Another less-than-fulfilling incident was listening to a prominent (I wont mention the name) player, perform some obviously homemade construct (no, I can't call it a tune) at a venue some of you may have attended a few years ago. It was an agglomeration of notes played on a Jazzmaster, frequently using a rat-tail file, rather than a pick. My thoughts were, 'It's enough to make our ears suffer, but why take it out on the poor instrument?"




While in grad school I worked in bars in Waterloo, one being a music venue. One night some guy played who my roommate and I referred to as the suicidal Jedi Knight because he was so serious and morose and wore a coat like Ben Kenobi's. We were drawing straws to see who would watch over him in the band room after the show to make sure he didn't kill himself. One of his songs had no lyrics except for the words 'soccer practice' repeated over and over and over again. Another used the word 'necromancer' and no, he was not covering a Rush song.

For the first part of the show he sat with his back to the audience. During the second part he turned around to face them. One of the bar owners, who really loved to be part of 'the scene', was standing beside us and said "he is astounding". I didn't play guitar at that point (I had played as a kid but walked away from it and didn't pick it up again until I was looking for a hobby later on in my grad school career) but my roommate is a very good guitar player and, when he heard that, he exploded with "are you for real? The guy can't even switch chords smoothly and hasn't fretted a single one correctly!" After that outburst the bar owner looked at him and said "you just don't get it" to which I replied "I don't even play and even I can tell that this guy fucking sucks and desperately needs lessons". The owner just gave us a condescending look and walked away.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Rollin Hand said:


> This reminds me of a story Jake E. Lee told in one of the guitar mags in the 80s...he was in a fusion band, and he suspected the guys in it were avant garde for the sake of being avant garde, so one day he played something that had nothing to do with anything the rest of the band was doing. They loved it, so he quit.
> 
> Now if they played it exactly that way at numerous shows, it might be art in some way, but this seemed to me to be being avant garde for the sake of being avant garde.


Reminds me of a similar story: 

I was in the Village Vanguard in New York. George Benson was playing his latest material: "The Other Side of Abbey Road". Fairly tame stuff. Marty Morell was the drummer for the Bill Evans Trio, which was the second act. A little more "out there". I had met Marty earlier and he invited me down. Really nice guy.

Anyway, I was a little pissed off because the Maitre d' (or whatever he was) stuck me behind a big pillar. "These are the best seats in the house." I suspected most of the crowd was faking it. 

I waited until I was sure nothing special was happening in the music, and then started to applaud. Everybody joined in, of course, not wanting to look un-hip. "Yeah, man. Cool."

The Emperor's New Clothes. 

Or maybe they were just being polite. Humouring a hick from a little mining town in Northern Ontario.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The "arts" is a funny thing. People can get so deeply involved in their "expression" that they can lose sense of the social context, and whether what their work means to _them_ vs what it might conceivably mean to _others_. At the same time, our appreciation of the arts can be severely limited by what we believe we are entitled to. We demand that the arts give us what we want and what we are familiar with.

A golden opportunity to once again quote one of my heros, Charles Ives" _"...therefore, what we like is beautiful, and what we don't like is ugly—and hence we are glad the beautiful is not ugly, for if it were we would like something we don't like. So having unsettled what beauty is, let us go on."_

When Stravinsky debuted _The Rite of Spring_ a little over a century ago, it caused riots. The Rite of Spring 1913: Why did it provoke a riot?
Why? Largely because it did not conform to what audiences had come to expect, and thought they deserved, when attending a ballet.

There is a compromise required between the indulgence of "artistes" and the demand from audiences for conformity. Musicians can't have their heads so far up their creative arses, lost in their internal conversation, that nothing they do has any relevance to anyone but themselves or their closest associates. But audiences can't insist that nobody EVER stretch them in any way or else music would never have changed.

It's actually not that far from Weird Al to Devo to Eugene Chadbourne to The Residents to Henry Kaiser to Anton Webern to Edgar Varese (and back again to Frank Zappa) Sometimes, you gotta break a few eggs to make a musical omelet.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Really nice guy.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Thereis no redeeming quality to this guy's music at all IMO.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

While I get what Kaiser tries to do, I just don't think he's that original. Casting all musical preconceptions out the window he still can't grab my attention.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

sorry guys - I was just messing around. I'd rather listen to my wife go poo.

To each their own though...


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

adcandour said:


> sorry guys - I was just messing around. I'd rather listen to my wife go poo.
> 
> To each their own though...


so what... there's no such thing as unicorns? wtf is that?


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Jimmy_D said:


> so what... there's no such thing as unicorns? wtf is that?


I didn't say that at all.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

adcandour said:


> I didn't say that at all.
> 
> View attachment 71017


I went out of town and stumbled into the middle of a pride weekend the last few days. No shortage of these guys in the hotel and on the hill. It was actually the first thing I saw when I stepped out on the slopes, flag waving included. Unicorns are real,.. and so are bull *****.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I can't listen to that shit!


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

I think you could hand anybody a guitar with crazy effects, and they could do the same thing...lol


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

fretzel said:


> Beatniks and LSD don't mix!



If he was on acid at least he'd have a legit excuse!


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Damn!!! I knew I've seen this guy before. When I researched neodymium pick-ups, I was obsessed with this demo video.

Please do me a favour and listen to the little run he does at 1:15. It's classic.


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## fretzel (Aug 8, 2014)

That and the technique he created called phantom picking at the 2:00 mark. Classic indeed!!!


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## Joe-Bin (Feb 27, 2017)

*#*(Those Videos hurt my ears!


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

I liked the stutter effect he was getting on his Eventide.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

All those years went by and he is still fumbling over the fret board,


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

IT GRABS THE NOTE

AND MOVES IT DOWN


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

bolero said:


> IT GRABS THE NOTE
> 
> AND MOVES IT DOWN


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

I guess when you have a Billion dollars you can do whatever the hell you want.


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## krusty (Nov 6, 2010)

vadsy said:


> I went out of town and stumbled into the middle of a pride weekend the last few days. No shortage of these guys in the hotel and on the hill. It was actually the first thing I saw when I stepped out on the slopes, flag waving included. Unicorns are real,.. and so are bull *****.


Whistler? I worked out there for several winters back in the '90s. Gay ski week was always "interesting". Huge tips as an instructor, though.

I actually think Henry's "music" has some interesting moments.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Henry Kaiser (musician) - Wikipedia

Interesting guy, that's for sure. I'd forgotten the David Lindley connection. Married a Canadian artist, Brandy Gale.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

krusty said:


> Whistler? I worked out there for several winters back in the '90s. *Gay ski week was always "interesting". Huge tips as an instructor, though.*
> 
> I actually think Henry's "music" has some interesting moments.


Ouch! A little too much information, perhaps?


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## Voxboy876 (Jul 16, 2013)

As his guitar ......gently weeps.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Voxboy876 said:


> As his guitar ......gently weeps.


Sounds more like screams of anguish to me


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

adcandour said:


> Damn!!! I knew I've seen this guy before. When I researched neodymium pick-ups, I was obsessed with this demo video.
> 
> Please do me a favour and listen to the little run he does at 1:15. It's classic.


There's some interesting improvised lines over that Zappa lick/tune "Outside Now" . Always loved that tune and yeah, a few warts and phantom picking! Did you notice the "squiggly frets" that help the inherent tuning/intonation issues with guitar in general?


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## krusty (Nov 6, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Ouch! A little too much information, perhaps?


No, I was never part of the "festivities". I just taught, and had no choice when it came to clients.


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## krusty (Nov 6, 2010)

deleted. double post


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Alex said:


> There's some interesting improvised lines over that Zappa lick/tune "Outside Now" . Always loved that tune and yeah, a few warts and phantom picking! Did you notice the "squiggly frets" that help the inherent tuning/intonation issues with guitar in general?


I did notice the frets. I'm figuring he wants his notes to be perfectly sour.


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