# Gotta see this to believe it



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Stumbled across this quite by accident. Now THIS is a keyboard I could get into. A truly remarkable instrument. Where was this when Jan Hammer was playing with Jeff Beck and John McLaughlin?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

WOW!! Jan Hammer would have loved to try that for sure. However, you have to give him credit...he did quite well with the technology available at the time.
Start at about the 1:25 mark....





@mhammer ...BTW...Is Jan Hammer a distant relative?


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Pretty incredible with the pitch/bending capability. I'm in the midst of watching a documentary on the synthesizer "I dream of wires" - very interesting on the history of the synth.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

greco said:


> @mhammer ...BTW...Is Jan Hammer a distant relative?


Not that I'm aware of.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

Doesn't impress me. I still have 3 months to play lap steel!


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Thats phenomenal. One step closer to making guitarists obsolete.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

cboutilier said:


> Thats phenomenal. One step closer to making guitarists obsolete.


I'm sure you're probably joking, as that is as likely to make guitarist obsolete as a guitar synth is about to make keyboard players obsolete. Although the equipment can get you really, really close (both key and guit synths), it is how you play those synths to sound like what you're not. I've played a few guitar synths as early as 1977 and as recently as a year ago, and if you play it like a guitar, it doesn't really get you into those other vibes (like wind instruments or strings or something). At least IME.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

One of the things about guitar as opposed to keyboards is that they encourage one to play differently. The ROLI is an attempt to incorporate some elements of playing that occur naturally to many guitarists but would not spontaneously occur to keyboard players. While being able to sit down at a keyboard and _do_ those sorts of things is cool, first you have to _think_ of them. So, for me, guitar players are not about to be obsolete by any stretch.

FWIW, there have been aftertouch aspects to keyboards for at least 30 years, but they tended to involve holding one's fingers steady and just pressing harder. The side-to-side motion is a more natural implementation of intentional vibrato. And from the looks of it, the way they've implemented pitch-bending also seems more natural than the traditional control wheel at the side.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Stringed instruments will eventually disappear. Not only from technology but from a shift in what music the population wants to hear. No instrument or music can be dominant forever.............


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Cool, though personally I don't want a keyboard that sounds like a guitar. I want a keyboard that has pipe organ stops, various piano sounds, etc. However, I am impressed with the instrument in the linked videos.


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

mhammer said:


> One of the things about guitar as opposed to keyboards is that they encourage one to play differently. The ROLI is an attempt to incorporate some elements of playing that occur naturally to many guitarists but would not spontaneously occur to keyboard players.


Perhaps, but I am reminded of some of the aftertouch tremolos that were experimented with in the 80s. Its nice to see a touch tremolo be experimented with.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

High/Deaf said:


> I'm sure you're probably joking, as that is as likely to make guitarist obsolete as a guitar synth is about to make keyboard players obsolete. Although the equipment can get you really, really close (both key and guit synths), it is how you play those synths to sound like what you're not. I've played a few guitar synths as early as 1977 and as recently as a year ago, and if you play it like a guitar, it doesn't really get you into those other vibes (like wind instruments or strings or something). At least IME.


I'm not joking as much as I wish I was. There's no reason you couldn't spend a few weeks in a room with that keyboard, and a drum pad (if it doesn't have its own) and compose the next year's pop hits in one shot. All your missing is a team of 9 songwriters to write a 6 word song and a pretty face to perform it.


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2016)

Throw in an Autotune and you're Grammy set. lol.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

cboutilier said:


> I'm not joking as much as I wish I was. There's no reason you couldn't spend a few weeks in a room with that keyboard, and a drum pad (if it doesn't have its own) and compose the next year's pop hits in one shot. All your missing is a team of 9 songwriters to write a 6 word song and a pretty face to perform it.


I agree with that, but it doesn't automatically spell the death of guitar.

One of the best at playing 'guitary' keyboards was Jan Hammer, IMO. And I could still easily differentiate him from Beck or whoever. If his tone was more 'guitary', would he have fooled me? Maybe. But there's something about fingers an strings that makes a unique sound or attack or something that I'm not sure can be completely replaced with a digital facsimile. I'm not threatened.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

cboutilier said:


> I'm not joking as much as I wish I was. There's no reason you couldn't spend a few weeks in a room with that keyboard, and a drum pad (if it doesn't have its own) and compose the next year's pop hits in one shot. All your missing is a team of 9 songwriters to write a 6 word song and a pretty face to perform it.


Don't forget tossing in a respectable number of millennial whoops. The Millennial Whoop


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> I agree with that, but it doesn't automatically spell the death of guitar.
> 
> One of the best at playing 'guitary' keyboards was Jan Hammer, IMO. And I could still easily differentiate him from Beck or whoever. If his tone was more 'guitary', would he have fooled me? Maybe. But there's something about fingers an strings that makes a unique sound or attack or something that I'm not sure can be completely replaced with a digital facsimile. I'm not threatened.


Having had the pleasure of watching McLaughlin and Hammer at a fairly close distance in the glory days of the Mahavishnu Orchestra in '73, there was certainly much in his style, tone, and use of his pitch bend wheel that aimed for a guitar-like feel, but the Minimoog limited what he could do. The ROLI provides a lot more for the player to use, in terms of gestural control. 

I'm not threatened either, but that's more because few keyboardists will have the guitarist sensibility to use the ROLI like a guitar, than because the instrument itself prevents them from _applying_ that sensibility. As you can see in the videos, Parisi has very good handle on how to turn guitar techniques into uses of the ROLI. Digging around a bit, I learned that he also plays guitar and bass. Certainly some keyboard players will also have a similar skillset, but most won't.


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2016)

But can someone pull off a good guitar face playing that?


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

Man, guitarists' mouths are like fiddler's eyebrows.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Quite a marvellous "ïnstrument". I have no problem with synths and give them a thumbs up. I was always impressed on Godin's guitars that coupled with the Roland synth GR-55. 

Although the keyboard can emulate the guitar, there is still the skill involved along with the learning curve. While I admire the synth, there is something satisfying making the music with a guitar. There must be or we wouldn't all be so nuts about them.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

High/Deaf said:


> I agree with that, but it doesn't automatically spell the death of guitar.
> 
> One of the best at playing 'guitary' keyboards was Jan Hammer, IMO. And I could still easily differentiate him from Beck or whoever. If his tone was more 'guitary', would he have fooled me? Maybe. But there's something about fingers an strings that makes a unique sound or attack or something that I'm not sure can be completely replaced with a digital facsimile. I'm not threatened.


Digital can't quite replace tube amps either, but it's close enough for a lot of people. I'm sure nobody will notice if the studio guitarist uses a Deluxe reverb or a roland cube on Beyonce's next multi platinum hit. 

She still makes music doesn't she? I suck at being a millennial


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

cboutilier said:


> Digital can't quite replace tube amps either, but it's close enough for a lot of people. I'm sure nobody will notice if the studio guitarist uses a Deluxe reverb or a roland cube on Beyonce's next multi platinum hit.
> 
> She still makes music doesn't she? I suck at being a millennial


Again, I don't think what Beyonce's got going on is any indication of the health of guitar. Now if Angus or Satch or even Mike Keneally* drop their guitars and started playing a synth, then I'm worried. 


*He's already that double threat guitarist/keyboard player, so perhaps if anyone can/will, it would be him. Keyboard chops and guitar sensibility.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Alex said:


> Pretty incredible with the pitch/bending capability. I'm in the mI idst of watching a documentary on the synthesizer "I dream of wires" - very interesting on the history of the synth.


I watched this because I know squat about synths. I know a little bit more now, and it was cool to see how things have come. I'd still have no idea what to do with one, but a former bandmate (drummer no less) has picked up a couple small ones and started to mess around.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Budda said:


> I watched this because I know squat about synths. I know a little bit more now, and it was cool to see how things have come. I'd still have no idea what to do with one, but a former bandmate (drummer no less) has picked up a couple small ones and started to mess around.


I finished watching it today. Great little bio and interesting to see the hate towards the DX7 (the sound of the 80's).


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

The DX7 was easy to hate. It was very difficult to program so people only used the presets. However, when I got to playing around with a DX7 (and the TX81Z), I instantly went noodling with the modulation algorithms. Found some cool stuff. Nowadays, I use pretty basic FM, such as 4 max oscillators and use them for simple bells, noisy pads and basses. Anywho.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I have a Casio MG-510 that, on top of being a decently-built Strat, has onboard MIDI output, so that one can drive a synth directly from the guitar. I have several tone-generator units: a Roland CM-32L, Korg 05W/R, Yamaha FB-01, and a no-name general MIDI unit, none of them costing me more than $25. The FB-01 is a 4-operator tone generator, so not as complex as a DX-7. I haven't explored programming any of them, but will get into it once I retire.

Of course, the fact that I can produce the tones of a keyboard, doesn't mean I can play the guitar like a keyboard. Same way that, just because one can produce guitar sounds on a keyboard, doesn't mean you play like a guitar player.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

guitars and keyboards and all the other instruments are just tools.
What you do with them and how you do it is called music...

Having the tools to make great music is one thing....making great music is something else.

G.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Absolutely. But when a new tool arrives that offers possibilities you never thought of before, that's a _good_ thing. As long as it was Bigsbys and Strat tremolos, we had Hank Marvin, Duane Eddy, Chet Atkins, and the Ventures. Once the Floyd Rose came, we had Eddie.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Tremolos? I use a laser based virtual system, and will never go back to mechanical ones. I envision a day when everything is virtual........


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

Accept2 said:


> Tremolos? I use a laser based virtual system, and will never go back to mechanical ones. I envision a day when everything is virtual........


What's this mad science?


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

isoneedacoffee said:


> What's this mad science?


Been around for years, and it rulez.............


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

I was born in the 80s, I love the DX7! I have a great library from UVI that covers almost all my needs for a synthesizer. 

Thanks for the heads up in the documentary!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Accept2 said:


> Been around for years, and it rulez.............


As cool as that is, it would be about as useful to me as a screendoor on a submarine. It would also be a complete re-learning curve.

I believe I am one of those luddites of which you speak.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Synth pioneer Buchla featured in the documentary just died.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Derek Sherinian doing VH


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Sorry, I am a way late to this party! Very cool. Something that I could get right into! Thanks for sharing this incredible little gem with us!


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