# Caged system!?



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Does anyone used the Caged System here? If not, why not?

I personally think it sucks! I will be back to tell you why I think it's not as good as system as musicians make it out to be! At work. Can't expound upon my opinions!


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Read this article on why the caged system sucks! This makes total sense to me! Curious??? Just read this please!

http://musictheoryforguitar.com/whythecagedscalesystemsucks.html


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## Guest (Dec 3, 2014)

did a quick skim. I liked this bit regarding Jimi.









A scale system is good if it helps you to learn the fretboard and then stays out of the way, 
not if a famous guitar player uses it or not. Yet, I've hear this particular claim so many times 
that I think it's worth answering to it.

One of the thing I hear more often about CAGED is that it must be a great system because 
"Hendrix used it". That is an interesting statement, because the CAGED system was invented 
in the late 70's, but Hendrix died in 1970. Could Hendrix have used it before it was invented? 
Well, sure, he was a forward thinker, but a quick analysis of his solos shows that he wasn't 
thinking in terms of CAGED at all.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

I use the CAGED system, though I don't think of it in those terms.

Anything that helps you learn your way around the fretboard is useful, but each of us has our own way of thinking about things.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

You know...in 22 years of playing I might have heard of this...but I don't really recall. I somehow managed to learn how to move around the fretboard without it. Mind you, I use some kind of hybrid minor-ish scale which I couldn't give you a name for most of the time. Although, I consider myself more of a noodler than a lead guy.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

nkjanssen said:


> Doesn't the "CAGED System" just refer to thinking of scale tones in reference to the open position major triad chord shapes they contain and surround? I have no idea if Hendrix thought in those terms, but surely people must have thought in those terms for at least as long as people have been playing open chords on guitar. I can't believe that nobody referenced scale shapes to open position chord shapes until the late 70's.


That's my thinking...

I was shown this technique before it was called "the CAGED system", so to describe it as being "invented" is akin to "inventing" electricity - it was always there, it just took some time to give it a name.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

"CAGED" existed for a very long time before someone tried to claim they discovered/invented it. Independent discovery abounds. I was using it as a stepping stone to other un-named approaches to the fingerboard but I'd discovered it on my own by applying positional scale fingerings based on chord shapes to the fingerboard. (My piano and choral background made me do it.) Didn't think to name it, formalize it, or profit from it.

Virtually every approach to the fingerboard was already in use before the last century. The goal should be to visualize the entire fingerboard, not to segment it.

Peace, Mooh.


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## ThatGingerMojo (Jul 30, 2014)

Great thread Lola.

I tried to learn using the CAGED system, I know alot of guitarists on YouTube really try and plug box patterns adn box numbers. I feel the CAGED system is like using cue cards when you should know the keys by ear. It is a system that works, but it does not take musicality into account. Just soloing in box three of Am really limits a players ability to speak through their instrument. If is feels right and sounds good, then who cares what box it is in? I would love to hear more peoples views on the CAGED system, because I hear the debate from both sides and I sometimes feel like a lazy player for not fully learning it but as I said I don't see the musical merit in it.


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## dbts808 (Sep 5, 2020)

Lola said:


> Does anyone used the Caged System here? If not, why not?
> 
> I personally think it sucks! I will be back to tell you why I think it's not as good as system as musicians make it out to be! At work. Can't expound upon my opinions!


Hi, I am a pro musician and certified teacher.
CAGED is the way the guitar is “organized”. There’s no way around it.
Follow my free instruction that I’m just starting.
I’ll teach how to play, and solo over, a Blues in any key;
And, always know exactly where you are on the neck.
Also know what note you’re playing, both by letter and “number”. - Dave


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## Kelownaguitarlessons (Sep 22, 2020)

Learn the notes on the neck. Learn to spell chords and scales. The C A G E and D and more shapes will reveal themselves organically, and you will be able to really understand why these shapes( and smaller, three-string shapes etc.) exist and repeat all over the guitar I do not use this system myself, but if it works for you, great!


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

laristotle said:


> One of the thing I hear more often about CAGED is that it must be a great system because
> "Hendrix used it".


Wasn't Hendrix mostly a pentatonic noodler of exceptional creative ability.


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## Kelownaguitarlessons (Sep 22, 2020)

Wardo said:


> Wasn't Hendrix mostly a pentatonic noodler of exceptional creative ability.


You can’t “noodle” Little Wing, Castles Made of Sand etc. They use chord inversions and fragments a lot.


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## dbts808 (Sep 5, 2020)

Kelownaguitarlessons said:


> Learn the notes on the neck. Learn to spell chords and scales. The C A G E and D and more shapes will reveal themselves organically, and you will be able to really understand why these shapes( and smaller, three-string shapes etc.) exist and repeat all over the guitar I do not use this system myself, but if it works for you, great!


There is much more to it; and not everything “reveals itself organically” (I wish). 
CAGED is the beginning to:
Learning all scales, in all positions,on all string sets; learning triads (maj., min., dim., aug.) in all 3 inversion on all 4 string sets; and then learning all “drop-2” 7th chords (all 5 qualities of maj7, min7, dom7, min7b5, and dim7) in all 4 inversions, and on all 3 string sets.
Respectfully, that takes work.
- Dave


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Kelownaguitarlessons said:


> You can’t “noodle” Little Wing, Castles Made of Sand etc. They use chord inversions and fragments a lot.


If you are penta wanking over the Little Wing chord progression it switches from major to minor, same boxes, different start notes.


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## Kelownaguitarlessons (Sep 22, 2020)

dbts808 said:


> There is much more to it; and not everything “reveals itself organically” (I wish).
> CAGED is the beginning to:
> Learning all scales, in all positions,on all string sets; learning triads (maj., min., dim., aug.) in all 3 inversion on all 4 string sets; and then learning all “drop-2” 7th chords (all 5 qualities of maj7, min7, dom7, min7b5, and dim7) in all 4 inversions, and on all 3 string sets.
> Respectfully, that takes work.
> - Dave


Sorry if i was not clear, i meant learn all the notes first. Everything else that you learn later will make a lot more sense. I did not say it was easy.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

The article isn't available anymore. Not sure I owned a guitar when this thread was started!


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## dbts808 (Sep 5, 2020)

player99 said:


> If you are penta wanking over the Little Wing chord progression it switches from major to minor, same boxes, different start notes.


Same “boxes” just add the major third to them.
Only hammer b3 to 3, not pull off 3 to b3; resolve upward.
Here is my Super-Blues scale formula: 1-2-b3-3-4-b5-5-6-b7; just leave out 3 if the chord is minor.
One scale for almost everything, so simple.
- Dave (old, experienced player).


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

It's a good system for seeing chord shapes and will help you get a more complete understanding of the fretboard. Hopefully though, once you have it figured out, you stop thinking about all the boxes. 
We all think and remember things a little differently. CAGED may drive some people nuts.
I learned triads up and down the neck in string groupings of 3. Eventually I just saw all the chord shapes and how they link up. I stumbled upon what the CAGED system tries to teach. Building blocks.


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## dbts808 (Sep 5, 2020)

zztomato said:


> It's a good system for seeing chord shapes and will help you get a more complete understanding of the fretboard. Hopefully though, once you have it figured out, you stop thinking about all the boxes.
> We all think and remember things a little differently. CAGED may drive some people nuts.
> I learned triads up and down the neck in string groupings of 3. Eventually I just saw all the chord shapes and how they link up. I stumbled upon what the CAGED system tries to teach. Building blocks.





zztomato said:


> It's a good system for seeing chord shapes and will help you get a more complete understanding of the fretboard. Hopefully though, once you have it figured out, you stop thinking about all the boxes.
> We all think and remember things a little differently. CAGED may drive some people nuts.
> I learned triads up and down the neck in string groupings of 3. Eventually I just saw all the chord shapes and how they link up. I stumbled upon what the CAGED system tries to teach. Building blocks.


That CAGED map of the fretboard never “disappears”, it is always there.
There are other “maps” through the fret board such as triad shapes, and such as three-note per string patterns.
However, if you wish to play “in position”, where your fretting hand may not move from a 4 to 6 fret area on the fretboard, CAGED shapes are just what will be under your fingers.
What I would really like to get across is this:
You are in open position and can only play notes to the 4th fret as that’s how far your fingers can teach.
Play an open E chord; now letter-name every note in that position; and then NUMBER-NAME every note in that position.
The notes in THAT E chord-shape are 1-5-1-3-5-1.
NOW: assign a NUMBER-NAME to every other note available in that position.
Here is both E strings:
1-b2-2-b3–3 (in the key of E).
Do that for all 5 CAGED shapes of E.
I have never seen anyone else teach this; it works extremely well.
- Dave


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

dbts808 said:


> That CAGED map of the fretboard never “disappears”, it is always there.
> There are other “maps” through the fret board such as triad shapes, and such as three-note per string patterns.
> However, if you wish to play “in position”, where your fretting hand may not move from a 4 to 6 fret area on the fretboard, CAGED shapes are just what will be under your fingers.
> What I would really like to get across is this:
> ...


No, that's all good. I've just stopped thinking about that kind of thing maybe 20 years ago. These days I just kind of play- more instinctively and less worried about "hand position" and stuff like that.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

I know and use _almost_ all of the caged shapes. I'm not sure if learning that system is something I would teach to somebody. My perception of it is that it has taken me a long time to now STOP thinking caged and just let the notes run together. Sometimes I can get it to work, but sometimes my brain flags a 'full stop' because I inadvertently followed my ear and moved into something more modal halfway through a pattern. Which of course happens every time you want to focus on adding more color. I mean its a great system for a rock rhythm player - I know that no matter where I am I have (at the minimum) major and minor chords under my fingers and I don't have to think about that much anymore. Want to solo over a fast G6 -> F6/9 change, you had better be prepared to think differently. 

Of course, I have never been a person who could just learn by ear and accept it, I like, or even need, to learn what makes it tick - key, scale, mode, etc. I'm not sure there is a perfect system, If I had to learn again, I would want someone to teach me nothing other than chord tone patterns, i.e. arpeggios. Then let me fill in the other blanks later on. You can cover a lot of ground with 1,3,5, plus one bonus color tone.

C


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

Oh crap. That homesreen that suggests posts gets me everytime. I always assume they are new posts.

Uggh.
C


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