# "Legend" brand guitar amps



## Kenmac

I've been looking on the net for some information about Legend amps as I used to own one back in the mid 90's. These were LOUD amps! They had an Oak cabinet and were very well made. Mine was a 2X12 model called the Rock n Roll 50. I remember reading an article in "Guitar For The Practising Musician" where they said that a 50 watt Legend was louder than a 100 watt Marshall. I doubted that until I bought mine. The guy who sold it to me told me that these amps really need to be "opened up" (i.e. cranked up) to sound good. I was in the rehearsal studio one time when the other guys weren't there so I figured I'd "open it up". Man, I only had the volume at 3 and I had to stand outside the studio door to play. It was that loud. I ended up selling it because of the loudness factor. I can take loud music but I don't know what the folks at Legend did to their amps to make them so loud. 

That's one of the reasons why I'm asking here. I've found some sites on the web that have info on the amp but I'm wondering how they got the amps to be so volume heavy. Did they find a way to increase the effeciency of the amps voltage? Was it the oak cabinet that added to the volume? Did they use heavier magnets in the speakers than other companies? Yes, this amp was quite heavy as well. I'm sure Wild Bill must have worked on a few Legends over the years and maybe he'll have some information to share about them. I also found out that Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top used the Legend amp exclusively on their biggest selling album, Eliminator. Here are some of the sites I've found with regards to Legend Amps:

This guy: http://www.vintaxe.com/catalogs_ampgear_legend.htm has brochures and flyers about them but he wants to charge you to download them.
http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar+Amp/product/Legend/Rock+"n"+Roll+50+212+Combo/10/1
There's a picture of a 1X12 amp here: http://danhex.com/Dan_Hex_-_Music.php?aa=0&si0=12 Scroll down a bit and you'll see it along with some information on it.
I also found 2 You Tube video clips. Gimmicky video effects in this one: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=UUuUpLhdO3o
14 second clip: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo2Q4fixdGI
So if anybody has more info on these amps, please let me know.


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## Wild Bill

A long and good friend of mine has a Rock and Roll 50 that I maintain for him. Basically the amp is a couple of 12AX7's in a Fender style preamp feeding into a solid state power amp. So there is no power amp distortion but you can get a bit of dirt from the preamp.

It sounds so flippin' loud not because of any extra power but because the amp is voiced very bright. Bright amps always sound louder for the same power. The way the human ear works, you need a 4x increase in power level to sound noticeably louder, if all things are the same.

HOWEVER, our ears are also much more sensitive to higher frequencies than low ones! This is also why a Vox AC30 is only 30 watts and yet will blow a lot of 50 watt amps off the stage.

I don't know if the speaker in my buddy's amp was stock or if he put it in himself but it is a bright Celestion 12". Celestion speakers are bright in themselves and also more efficient than many classic Fender speakers like Utahs and Oxfords. Again, this will sound louder.

Because of the solid state power amp you can get a very nice clean tone. This amp would be perfect for doing Angus Young AC/DC covers!

:food-smiley-004:


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## bobb

The one thing that stands out in my mind was the optional Shure SM57 mic cartridge installed in front of the speaker. A lot nicer sounding than the DI's that some amps had at the time.


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## zontar

I always wanted one, but never found one I could afford at the time. Beautiful tone on those. I think it was the mix of tube & transistor that did it for the tone. And the brightness did make a difference in the volume--when you changed the settings to take away brightness they did seem quieter (Okay-less loud.)

I still look back with a bit of sorrow how the last one I saw for sale (almost 20 years ago) was scooped up before I could get the money put together to get it. It was so close. I loved test driving it.


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## Kenmac

Thanks Wild Bill. So it was a combination of the voicing and the Celestions huh? Interesting. Yeah they did have a bright sound to them as well and I think that's another thing I couldn't handle about that amp. :smile: Having said that, they really are well built, solid amps but I guess the thing to do if you own one is to use less treble than you would on other amps. 



Wild Bill said:


> A long and good friend of mine has a Rock and Roll 50 that I maintain for him. Basically the amp is a couple of 12AX7's in a Fender style preamp feeding into a solid state power amp. So there is no power amp distortion but you can get a bit of dirt from the preamp.
> 
> It sounds so flippin' loud not because of any extra power but because the amp is voiced very bright. Bright amps always sound louder for the same power. The way the human ear works, you need a 4x increase in power level to sound noticeably louder, if all things are the same.
> 
> HOWEVER, our ears are also much more sensitive to higher frequencies than low ones! This is also why a Vox AC30 is only 30 watts and yet will blow a lot of 50 watt amps off the stage.
> 
> I don't know if the speaker in my buddy's amp was stock or if he put it in himself but it is a bright Celestion 12". Celestion speakers are bright in themselves and also more efficient than many classic Fender speakers like Utahs and Oxfords. Again, this will sound louder.
> 
> Because of the solid state power amp you can get a very nice clean tone. This amp would be perfect for doing Angus Young AC/DC covers!
> 
> :food-smiley-004:


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## Johnny Canuck

I'm guessing I should chime in as I've owned 3 Legend Rock & Roll 50 1x12's and currently still have one of those as well as a Legend Model A30 as well as a Model A60. 

Yep, they're loud and I agree with all of the posters re: the brightness factor. They can take your head off with searing high end if you don't take time to learn how they work. One of the things that is unique about the Legends (all of them) is that the tone controls are active and highly interactive. It takes a while to learn how to dial in a tone since an adjustment in one (ie. the mids) has a profound effect on the other knobs in the tone stack. 

The Legends also use an interesting arrangement for tube gain. The RR 50's feature a Master Volume, Preamp Volume and "Colour Gain" on the front panel as well as a Rhythm Volume and Lead Volume preset on the back of the amp for setting the overall level of the two "channels" (really one channel with a switchable tube boost it seems to me). The Preamp Volume and Colour Gain are also incredibly interactive and, as the Colour Gain is increased the intensity/effectiveness of the tone controls increases.

The A30/A60 uses a slightly different arrangement. These models do not include rear panel volume controls but they have essentially been included on the front panel. Each "Channel" (Mode A and Mode B in this case) has its own Volume and 1st Stage Tube Drive. They share a common 2nd Stage Tube Drive as well as Treble, Mid, Bass, Presence and Reverb. As above, the 1st Stage Tube Drive has a pronounced effect on how intense/effective the tone stack is. 

Replacing the speaker is helpful as apparently the Celestion they came equipped with was actually more suited to a closed back design. The A30 I have (as well as one of the RR 50's I sold) were "modified" by the addition of a back panel to seal the back and provide more "oomph" and focus. I have also tried various speakers over time including a vintage Ampeg, an Eminence Governor, Swamp Thang and Texas Heat.

The tube stages can give you a reasonable overdrive but you need to use a pedal or two to obtain thicker or richer distortion. As a point of reference Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top was an early endorser and apparently used the amps exclusively for one of the ZZ Top albums - the name escapes me at the moment. The band "The Outlaws" were also endorsers of the Legend amps.

I think the Legends are an outstanding (and under-appreciated) value both for their sonics as well as their outstanding looks. They were pretty advanced for thier day and were an attempt to create a "poor man's Mesa Boogie." The company was bought up by Norlin, Gibson's parent company, in the mid 80's and as with Gibson Norlin did its best to drive the company into the ground. In this case they succeeded and by 1987 or so Legend was no more.

I bought the one RR 50 I still have in 1986 in Vancouver. Many amps have come and gone since them but the Legend has always remained in my arsenal.

I hope that background info is helpful to you.


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## Kenmac

Thanks Johnny, yes that was very helpful to me. I guess people didn't take the time to fine tune the Legends so they could get the sound they really wanted. I did notice the extra controls on the back but I never touched them. Regarding your Billy Gibbons reference, I mentioned it in my initial question. He used the Legend amp exclusively for their biggest selling album, "Eliminator".



Johnny Canuck said:


> As a point of reference Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top was an early endorser and apparently used the amps exclusively for one of the ZZ Top albums - the name escapes me at the moment. The band "The Outlaws" were also endorsers of the Legend amps.


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## zontar

Johnny Canuck said:


> The band "The Outlaws" were also endorsers of the Legend amps.


And while I am not a huge fan of theirs--I love the tone they got from those Legends. Green grass & High Tides has one of the sweetest tones I've heard anywhere by anybody.


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## stringer

Hi Wild Bill. I am looking at purchasing a legend rnr 50 right now. The seller says that it is in good working order, the only issue being " a little hum when the gain is turned up ". Do you have any idea what would cause this? Worst case scenario what kind of bill to repair. Also, with an amp being close to 40 years old what would you recommend as far as refurbishing goes? Any info would be really appreciated. Thanks.


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## ronmac

There is a fellow about an hour way from me who has a small collection of Legend amps for sale on Kijiji

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-amp-pedal/charlottetown-pei/vintage-legend-tube-amps/468313933


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## amplituden

I had a Rock and Roll 50 Combo.
I never really gelled with it. I could never get a good even tone it was always really bright and thin not enough bass. 
They look really cool and they are super loud, easily the loudest amp I have ever had, however I hated the tone of it.
Eventually in mine the speaker blew so I put a new speaker in it ( It was a Celestion, I can't remember which model ) hoping it would sound different but it pretty much sounded the same.

However, mine could have been a lemon, it was the only one I have ever tried.


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## mrmatt1972

ronmac said:


> There is a fellow about an hour way from me who has a small collection of Legend amps for sale on Kijiji
> 
> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-amp-pedal/charlottetown-pei/vintage-legend-tube-amps/468313933


I had a RNR 50 1 x 12 that was loud and I liked a lot. I sold it for grocery money and couldn't get it back. Every time I visit the pawn shops in North Bay I'm hopeful to see it again. I think I'll try to work something out with this guy in NS.


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## zontar

mrmatt1972 said:


> I had a RNR 50 1 x 12 that was loud and I liked a lot. I sold it for grocery money and couldn't get it back. Every time I visit the pawn shops in North Bay I'm hopeful to see it again. I think I'll try to work something out with this guy in NS.


Hope it goes well, I'd love to have one as well.


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## mrmatt1972

zontar said:


> Hope it goes well, I'd love to have one as well.


Well, he wants 350 for the head and doesn't want to ship. i'd say 250 is more like it anyway. Maybe he'll change his mind in time.


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## Buford Stumpwater

I own a Legend Rock and Roll 50 2x12. and it has served me well for 30 years. I now have a hum that my tech can't figure out. New tubes, New capacitors, pots all cleaned, and he cannot get the hum out that was never a problem. Any ideas? I have been playing for over 40 years and never had an issue with this amp until recently. By the way I own a 1958x Marshall and ,as I remember , the Legend is a superior amp. I have a complete set of schematics for the Rock and roll 50 2x12 if anyone needs them. 
Regards,
Buford


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## Buford Stumpwater

By the way, they were hand made in Syracuse NY and produced less than 1000 a year. The company was in business for about 7 years. ZZ Top used the amps on the Eliminator album. Absolute under the radar great
amps.


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## Buford Stumpwater

stringer said:


> Hi Wild Bill. I am looking at purchasing a legend rnr 50 right now. The seller says that it is in good working order, the only issue being " a little hum when the gain is turned up ". Do you have any idea what would cause this? Worst case scenario what kind of bill to repair. Also, with an amp being close to 40 years old what would you recommend as far as refurbishing goes? Any info would be really appreciated. Thanks.


See my reply Buford Stumpwater....I will get back. The amp is going to a great tech in NY


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## capnjim

I had one, and I think its one of the only amps I have ever owned that I could not get a useable tone from. Just shrill and ear piercing. Literally painful. But, it was very well built and the built in SM57 was pretty darn cool.


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## zontar

really--I loved the ones I played through--and every time I saw one for sale sued--I didn't have he cash & before I could set up a trade or sale of any gear I would be willing to part with for one--someone else would buy it.
They never seem to last long when they go up for sale.


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## Buford Stumpwater

Addendum to previous post. The hum is from a circuit board that has been contaminated and registers 6 volts. I have been unable to find a replacement circuit board anywhere. The only option I have been told by my tech is to take a clean board and rewire it. Approximately $500.00 USD parts and labor. Anyone know where a new circuit board can be had?
Regards,
Buford


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## zontar

I saw one at a guitar show last year.
I remember they were heavy--but this one was heavier than I remember.
That's kind of strike against it for me.
And I also didn't have the cash to buy it.

I've gone this long without one, so I'm good if I never get one.

But I do really like them


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## Dave Greenside

Buford Stumpwater said:


> I own a Legend Rock and Roll 50 2x12. and it has served me well for 30 years. I now have a hum that my tech can't figure out. New tubes, New capacitors, pots all cleaned, and he cannot get the hum out that was never a problem. Any ideas? I have been playing for over 40 years and never had an issue with this amp until recently. By the way I own a 1958x Marshall and ,as I remember , the Legend is a superior amp. I have a complete set of schematics for the Rock and roll 50 2x12 if anyone needs them.
> Regards,
> Buford


Hey friend .. came across your post here and would really appreciate a copy of the Rock n Roll 50 schematics.
Just took mine to the local tech for repair and only have a low resolution image. Here's hoping your copy is legible. peace Dave
[email protected]


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## S.carolinaLegendowner

Here is a copy(pdf) of the Legend Rock "N" Roll 50 owners manual with schematics( but they are a bit blurry, sorry it's the only copy I can find)...


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## Redbeard

Buford Stumpwater said:


> I own a Legend Rock and Roll 50 2x12. and it has served me well for 30 years. I now have a hum that my tech can't figure out. New tubes, New capacitors, pots all cleaned, and he cannot get the hum out that was never a problem. Any ideas? I have been playing for over 40 years and never had an issue with this amp until recently. By the way I own a 1958x Marshall and ,as I remember , the Legend is a superior amp. I have a complete set of schematics for the Rock and roll 50 2x12 if anyone needs them.
> Regards,
> Buford


Hello Burford, Saw your post, I have a Rock & Roll 50 I've had for 40 years. It's got noise issues and after replacing many filter caps and resistor it still has issues. It had some wiring mods we cant figure out. A set ot scematics would solve the mystery. Be glad to pay you for a set. Let me know if that's possible. Gary Brewer email [email protected]. thanks again


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