# Ever been told to "TURN IT DOWN!!" by venue organizers?



## prodigal_son

We are considering using edrums and DI bass with a smaller mic'd guitar amp for a near future gig because the place we will be performing at is small and probably won't handle the volume level at which we normally practice at. I am thinking we are going to have to monitor the hell out of everything just to somewhat hear ourselves. We are a rock band and need to be loud to a certain degree as far as I am concerned. Does anyone know of effective ways to perform at a much lower volume and still maintain the majority of what you are trying to accomplish with your show?


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## CocoTone

Where's the popcorn? This should be entertaining.

CT.


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## Guest

What venue wants to hire a rock band but can't handle the volume of rock drums? I want to make sure I put it on my list of venues to avoid at all costs.


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## ne1roc

Everyone needs to watch this!!

[YOUTUBE]W2hRApdLADA[/YOUTUBE]


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## Guest

That was bloody brilliant.


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## Powdered Toast Man

Usually, "TURN IT DOWN!" is code for "We want you to stop playing entirely, but don't know how to say it. We're hoping you take the hint." or more simply, "YOU SUCK!"


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## hollowbody

I'm actually on the hunt for a smaller amp exactly for these reasons. Some of the places I want to play (because I know the owners, or I like the venue) aren't really geared towards loud rock bands. Not that they don't _want_ them, but that they don't normally have them. I figure my JTM45 half-stack is going to be overkill, so I'm looking for a small combo. Even still, I'll be turning it up.

I figure any place that says you're too loud is the kind of place that _doesn't actually want_ a live band, but thinks they _should_ have one. Most of my regular haunts for live music aren't the kinds of places to go for quiet conversation, or will have separate areas far away from the stage for that kind of thing. If people are out to see a rock show, they want to see a rock show, and that involves volume.

Conversely, there's legit reasons for being asked to turn down, like, y'know, your stage volume is louder than the FOH


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## guitarman2

I have taken the volume control on my amp out of the equation by turning it on max and crazy gluing it there.


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## Guest

guitarman2 said:


> I have taken the volume control on my amp out of the equation by turning it on max and crazy gluing it there.


"Turn it down? Sorry man. This amp has one volume: peel your f****** face off."

I like it.


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## Stevo

ne1roc said:


> Everyone needs to watch this!!
> 
> [YOUTUBE]W2hRApdLADA[/YOUTUBE]


OMG, that is hilarious. It hits pretty close to home at a lot of wedding gigs.... haha


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## sivs

I work in/play at a church primarily. I've toured the country playing churches, and the request is usually the same - less volume. This may not apply the same way because we weren't trying to be primarily a rock band, but we found it was a hard line to walk. Sometimes we had the drummer use rods. In-ear monitoring can help clear things up. The biggest thing I've found is that a competent sound guy can get a clear mix at reasonable volume levels. If your sound guy isn't great, usually they turn things up to try to get clarity, and that can just make it worse. I'm also sold on smaller amps now. I've never played a venue big enough to crank my AC30 - even for 2000 people. I've now got a matchless lightning (15w with master volume) and a reason bambino (2/8 watt) and both are plenty loud to keep up with drummers. If I was never miced it might be different, but everything I play I use a mic.


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## ronmac

There is nothing a sound person can do to create a mix at the volume the venue is comfortable with if the drummer and bass player over power the stage. Sometimes it's a matter of the venue booking the wrong act, and sometimes it's musicians that don't understand or can't control the dynamics of their instruments.


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## prodigal_son

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Usually, "TURN IT DOWN!" is code for "We want you to stop playing entirely, but don't know how to say it. We're hoping you take the hint." or more simply, "YOU SUCK!"


That's what I thought too man and then they booked us again for an "outside in the tent" show. We have yet to be told that we suck. We don't. It was more a matter of being way to loud for the size of the room. The organizer kept warning us before the show that we couldn't be loud. He said this after he saw how many speakers we had rolled in.


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## prodigal_son

iaresee said:


> What venue wants to hire a rock band but can't handle the volume of rock drums? I want to make sure I put it on my list of venues to avoid at all costs.


I was a private slow-pitch ball tournament. There was probably close to 150 people there. I just think the guy didn`t know too much about hiring entertainment.


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## Powdered Toast Man

prodigal_son said:


> I was a private slow-pitch ball tournament. There was probably close to 150 people there. I just think the guy didn`t know too much about hiring entertainment.


Yeah, that's the worst when you show up somewhere you were booked and realize that the organizer had no clue how loud a live band is. I've played in an all-original rock group for a long time and whenever we've been asked to play something that I'm pretty sure is inappropriate for us, I've said, "Are you sure? Have you heard our music? What sort of event/audience is this?" to the organizer. I've turned down a gig or two even if they thought they still might want us because I've experienced serious band/event mismatch before. Yeah, I could go ahead and book it, but in the end it's us who also have to live through it. Sure, it's the organizer's fault, but we're the ones who end up standing on the stage looking like ***holes.


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## david henman

...i've performed for many venue managers/owners that hired a rock band and expected them to be no louder than a small radio.

but i've also performed for club owners who actually asked me to turn it up!


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## Chito

As mentioned, the worst ones are those who don't have a clue about hiring bands. Can't recall the number of times my band has been asked to play in a Fundraiser and as soon as we arrive with all our gear (of course including the PA etc...) they go "Wow that is a heck of a lot of equipment, are you going to be too loud?"

My worst experience was doing a Celtic gig for another fundraiser. As soon as the folks come in, they tell us to turn it down coz they said they can't talk. We finished the song and left without finishing our set.


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## Big_Daddy

david henman said:


> but i've also performed for club owners who actually asked me to turn it up!


Never had that happen, LOL. Of course, I used to play through a BF Super Reverb that was always dimed.:banana:


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## StevieMac

Stage volume, IMO at least, largely depends on the drummer. I absolutely refuse to compete with ours and, as a consequence, am _often_ asked by others (bandmates, audience members, even soundmen) to "turn up". I usually decline, citing feedback concerns with the harp mic, and politely suggest that others (i.e. the drummer) lower their volume to bring me out in the mix. Works almost every time!


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## prodigal_son

Chito said:


> We finished the song and left without finishing our set.


This was my first instinctive thought as well. I wanted to just leave it and be gone.


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## Milkman

Electronic drums or a plexi shield around the kit are good starting points in reducing stage volume. Small amps on stage, raised up to ear level and side washed to point at the players (not at the audience) is another big improvement.

The biggest and most overlooked problem is bass. Bass players have been using bigger and bigger (or at least more powerful) amps and bass being omnidirectional, it doesn't matter where you point them, it goes everywhere.

There are gigs where you have to play quietly. The single best way to do this is with dynamics at the source.


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## dwagar

Milkman said:


> Electronic drums or a plexi shield around the kit are good starting points in reducing stage volume. Small amps on stage, raised up to ear level and side washed to point at the players (not at the audience) is another big improvement.
> 
> The biggest and most overlooked problem is bass. Bass players have been using bigger and bigger (or at least more powerful) amps and bass being omnidirectional, it doesn't matter where you point them, it goes everywhere.
> 
> There are gigs where you have to play quietly. The single best way to do this is with dynamics at the source.


+1

And sound men that think a band should sound disco, overly loud bass and kick drum. Man I hate that.

We've had to turn down to the point that I really don't like the sound, but, when you're getting paid to play, the guy with the money is the boss. It helps to know ahead of time if you have to keep the volume down, then you can practice at that level. Smaller amps, or attenuators, will help.


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## StevieMac

dwagar said:


> We've had to turn down to the point that I really don't like the sound...


This is one point I will concede on. Below a certain level, my tube amps seem to have no "balls". That being said, anything beyond that sweet spot feels like overkill to me.


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## ronmac

Milkman said:


> Electronic drums or a plexi shield around the kit are good starting points in reducing stage volume. Small amps on stage, raised up to ear level and side washed to point at the players (not at the audience) is another big improvement.
> 
> The biggest and most overlooked problem is bass. Bass players have been using bigger and bigger (or at least more powerful) amps and bass being omnidirectional, it doesn't matter where you point them, it goes everywhere.
> 
> There are gigs where you have to play quietly. The single best way to do this is with dynamics at the source.


Couldn't agree more...

Another issue to consider with Bass.... The wavelength of the lowest bass frequencies is much longer than that of just about any other instrument on stage. Standing a couple of feet from a bass amp, as most players do, is a position where the player doesn't get the full bloom of audio pressure. Most have no idea that the audience is often hearing a much louder direct level than they are. That, in part, explains the dumb look I often get when I try to negotiate a different placement of their amp.


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## Guest

StevieMac said:


> This is one point I will concede on. Below a certain level, my tube amps seem to have no "balls". That being said, anything beyond that sweet spot feels like overkill to me.


You know what works well for this? An AxeFx.


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## snacker

i get asked that all the time and i'm not in a really loud band - usually playing a couple of quiet tunes or ballads does the trick and then we inch back to a comfortable level - i played a gig in grand bend once on a patio and the owner kept telling us to turn down - once the set was over, he turned on the canned music which was WAAAY louder - those are the gigs you play ONLY for the money


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## Powdered Toast Man

ronmac said:


> That, in part, explains the dumb look I often get when I try to negotiate a different placement of their amp.


I thought that look was standard issue for bass players.


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## ronmac

Powdered Toast Man said:


> I thought that look was standard issue for bass players.


Guilty as charged. I split my gigging duties between bass and acoustic. 

BTW, when I am doing tech duties I see "that" look from all forms of stage life.


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## prodigal_son

We are a rock cover band. I wonder if it would be smarter to advertise ourselves as such: Offering the flexibility to perform at suitable volume levels which cater specifically to the size of the venue. We can rock really hard and heavy or rock just as hard with the volume tamed enough to still be able to enjoy a conversation while we entertain you.


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## bluesmostly

We get asked to turn down once in a while, but mostly by members of our own band! We have worked hard over the years to find ways to play without being too loud. I want people in the room to be able to talk to one another while still dancing or enjoying the music, including myself and other band members. 

Getting stage volumes down was the key for us. My Axe-Fx rig has been a fantastic solution for that, no more trying to get good tone out of a tube amp without giving everyone on stage a head-ache at the same time. we also a plexi-shield for the drums and electronic drums sometimes as well.


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## Mooh

Once in a while, but not often. Usually all it takes is pulling the mains down a bit, and sometimes redirecting the main cabinets. Front of house can be perceived as quiet but stage monitors can/should be whatever the band prefers. I like lots of monitors and monitor volume, regardless what the house gets.

Depends too on how full the house is, how late it is, how drunk the crowd is, and how conditioned the audience is.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Milkman

Mooh said:


> Once in a while, but not often. Usually all it takes is pulling the mains down a bit, and sometimes redirecting the main cabinets. Front of house can be perceived as quiet but stage monitors can/should be whatever the band prefers. I like lots of monitors and monitor volume, regardless what the house gets.
> 
> Depends too on how full the house is, how late it is, how drunk the crowd is, and how conditioned the audience is.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.



Sometimes the monitors have to be so loud for the band, that it actually interferes with the FOH mix. That's often the case when guys are wearing hearing protection.

IEMs are a great solution to that.


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## Mooh

Milkman said:


> Sometimes the monitors have to be so loud for the band, that it actually interferes with the FOH mix. That's often the case when guys are wearing hearing protection.
> 
> IEMs are a great solution to that.


Definately. We used to have issues with monitors bleeding into the mics. I sometimes wear protection in one ear.

What would you recommend for in-ear-monitors? It's been a while since I've used them.

Peace, Mooh.


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## hollowbody

Mooh said:


> Definately. We used to have issues with monitors bleeding into the mics. I sometimes wear protection in one ear.
> 
> What would you recommend for in-ear-monitors? It's been a while since I've used them.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


I've had the same problem too. I also usually only wear protection in one ear (whichever one is pointed towards the drummer most of the time ) but yeah, I'd like to consider IEMs at some point as well, but like Mooh, I'm not really aware of what's available and what is worth it.


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## Milkman

I don't own any but have worked with Shures and Sennheisers.

Here's a link that may provide some insight.
Best In Ear Headphones - 2010 Gear Guide | HeadRoom Audio


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## Milkman

I know it's popular these days for musicians to wear hearing protection and I fully understand and agree with the idea of protecting myself from excessive volumes.

I just don't see the logic of reducing the levels coming into the ear with plugs, and then asking the sound man to crank up the wedges, and also turning up your stage amps.

It's a completely ineffective and useless activity in my opinion.


I know many people will flame me for this unpopular opinion, but doesn't it make mores sense to solve the root cause as opposed to putting a band aid on it?

Again, I have to state that the guys who tend to have the most problems keeping their stage volumes at a reasonable level are often wearing hearing protection.


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## Mooh

Milkman said:


> I know it's popular these days for musicians to wear hearing protection and I fully understand and agree with the idea of protecting myself from excessive volumes.
> 
> I just don't see the logic of reducing the levels coming into the ear with plugs, and then asking the sound man to crank up the wedges, and also turning up your stage amps.
> 
> It's a completely ineffective and useless activity in my opinion.
> 
> 
> I know many people will flame me for this unpopular opinion, but doesn't it make mores sense to solve the root cause as opposed to putting a band aid on it?
> 
> Again, I have to state that the guys who tend to have the most problems keeping their stage volumes at a reasonable level are often wearing hearing protection.


Thanks. It's one of the health and safety tenets, fix the source. I entirely agree, and the only time I wear a plug is when I don't have another choice, ie ornery bandmates, sound guys, or when we just are in abysmal (however temporary) conditions. 

I'll look into Sennheiser IEM as I've used their headphones and microphones for 30+ years, I trust the name.

Peace, Mooh.


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## robare99

We all have reasonable stage volumes. It makes everything better. Better FOH mix, better monitor mix, no feedback. It works really well. I play a 100W JCM800 into a 212 cabinet, but again, at a rasonable volume. I just put some guitar in my monitor and it's all good.

We play everywhere from a big community center to a small curling rink. We always have the volume appropriate for the room.


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## captainbrew

We're not really a loud band so it's never much of an issue. I think we use small but good sounding amps and it seems perfect for the venues we play. (Matchless Chieftain 1x12, Dr. Z Maz 18 2x10 and a Hartke bass combo) We're not a ROCK band so no need for ear bleeding volumes.


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## torndownunit

One of my favourite band t-shirts from the 90's:


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## robare99

Image Hosted ByTripod???


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## hollowbody

We were actually asked to turn down at our last two gigs. One was a place that we've played numerous times before but were never asked to turn down in, so I don't really know what was going on that day. I had to turn down so much that I really couldn't hear myself over our drummer on stage (and he was playing fairly quietly). 

The other was at a different venue where all I kept hearing from the audience in between sets was how great we sounded and how it was awesome that we were loud enough to be an energetic rock band entertaining the crowd, yet not so loud that they couldn't carry on a conversation with one another. This venue also had a sound tech, so I have no idea why there were asking US to turn down, the stage volume was pretty sedate.

I think one of the problems is that some venues that we play at (bars w/ live music sometimes) aren't dedicated music venues, so they don't really know what to expect from a band and don't even know IF they want live music, but feel it might help them generate revenue. You simply can't expect to have a band play your bar at a level where it's background music. If background music is what you want, get a satellite radio, or a CD changer or whatever. The band is there to be entertainment.


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