# How come Canadian men suck so bad at the Olympics?



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

Canadian women: 9 medals
Canadian men: 0 medals.
Come on guys.....seriously.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Women are just better. Period.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I haven't looked at this--but part of it could be related to men's events & women's events that have been taking place & when the medals are awarded
I know some men have failed to win medals--but there are others to come--and also I wasn't aware it was such a competition between men & women in the Olympics.

(Real life might be a different story)


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Robert1950 said:


> Women are just better. Period.


I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with their "period"


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Everyone knows the summer Olympics are just for the hipsters and don't really matter.


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## vokey design (Oct 24, 2006)

Just watch TSN, Olympic coverage is the only time you will see anything other than NHL, NBA, MLB or NFL. Our young boys are pushed hockey (mostly in my area), and if not pushed directly by the parents they are indirectly (seeing Dad only care about hockey).

Our young girls on the other hand are exposed to a greater number of sports and stick with what they excel at.

My kids (2 girls and 1 boy) have been in dance, gymnastics, baseball, swimming and skating so far. In dance and gymnastics my son was the only boy, and we are talking at 4 years old so this is still 100% the parents decisions. I have had 2 birthday parties at gymnastics clubs (4 and 6 ear olds) both of which had 4 or 5 boys attending. We had to drag theses your boys off the trampoline kicking and screaming so they are obviously enjoying it when exposed ... they just don't get exposed.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

The men might be a little weak this time, I'm not really sure, but the women are very strong. The training is obviously working, but the individual efforts seem almost superhuman.

It's only anecdotal evidence, but if my local YMCA is any indication, young women are way more athletic.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

It may have something to do with the statistic that young women are less likely to play X-Box. (Or guitar.)

I also agree that boys who do play sports seem to be pushed into hockey to the exclusion of everything else.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

It's mostly racing in the Olympics and our inherent politeness causes our competitors to always go "after you"


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2016)

Maybe the men need to refocus their energies. lol.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Mooh said:


> It's only anecdotal evidence, but if my local YMCA is any indication, young women are way more athletic.


Women in fitness/athletics is a huge modern trend, probably mostly thanks to Crossfit. Men avoiding aggressive/competitive behavior and suppressing their physical nature is the other growing trend. An entire generation of people essentially reversing the traditional gender roles. It will be really interesting to review the effects of these trends in another 20 years.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2016)




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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Guitar101 said:


> I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with their "period"


....groan....


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Probably a really good indication that Canada really needs to step up it's Olympic program. maybe the females are stronger because they are "supported" more by parents and spouses wile training, where as the guys are left to fend for themselves and can't survive without working jobs which cuts into their training time.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Canada treats women more fairly than many other nations. In many other countries funds earmarked for Olympic sports are meted out in a manner that is heavily weighed toward developing male athletes.

This is a contributing factor, coupled by the fact that Canadian women have a higher degree of access to quality coaches and workout areas. Less prosperous and enlightened countries often give women lower priority to such facilities.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Krelf said:


> Canada treats women more fairly than many other nations. In many other countries funds earmarked for Olympic sports are meted out in a manner that is heavily weighed toward developing male athletes.
> 
> This is a contributing factor, coupled by the fact that Canadian women have a higher degree of access to quality coaches and workout areas. Less prosperous and enlightened countries often give women lower priority to such facilities.


Absolutely true, but I think there is something else at play here. I have a friend who has been running the Outers Club at his school for years and he tells me that it used to be that the guys would help the girls to carry packs, canoes, etc. on trips, but now, the girls help the guys. He sees it as a culture of helplessness among young Canadian men. I know that this is purely anecdotal, but it is consistent with my observations. As a music teacher, I get lots of calls from mothers of adult children calling me wondering about guitar lessons for their adult son - I have never had anyone call me looking for lessons for their adult daughter. (For what it's worth, I tell Mom to have their son call me and make the arrangements - in the unlikely event that they do call, they rarely last long.)


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

Very interesting....I'm glad I started this thread. Now can someone explain how I can watch wimmens beach volleyball for hours, but I can't watch more than a minute of the men???


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

capnjim said:


> Very interesting....I'm glad I started this thread. Now can someone explain how I can watch wimmens beach volleyball for hours, but I can't watch more than a minute of the men???


Same reason we watch Michelle Jeneke warm up and run hurdles.....


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I think it's not s much that Canadian men suck, but other countries men are just way better.
Glass half full vs half empty.

Let's face it, for the other 3.5 years, Canadians don't give a rats ass about the sports in the olympics. Hard to expect a lot of resources towards them when no one cares.
Been to a track and field meet lately? A swimming competition?
How about a hockey game?

Don't sweat it, in 2 weeks all will be forgotten until next time.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Lincoln said:


> Probably a really good indication that Canada really needs to step up it's Olympic program.


Why?
What's the importance of it really?
Let's be honest, what does Olympic performance say about a country?
Is Canada inferior to Jamaica because they win some medals in sprinting?
The whole thing is short lived media hype.
This isn't about the greatness of the human spirit. It's about McDonald's, Visa, Nike, Samsung, etc.
Let's not forget, Phelps for example, has earned about $100m , in spite of his controversies. He could hire Sidney Crosby to polish his medals.
I've no desire to funnel tax money into creating more entitled millionaires.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Diablo said:


> I've no desire to funnel tax money into creating more entitled millionaires.


Just wondering how many Canadian Olympians, male or female....summer or winter, are millionaires?


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Diablo said:


> Why?
> What's the importance of it really?
> Let's be honest, what does Olympic performance say about a country?
> Is Canada inferior to Jamaica because they win some medals in sprinting?
> ...



man, i think your being a bit harsh on mikey phelps. from what i read, he's done some pretty cool stuff besides swim faster than anyone else on the planet


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Canadian? Few if any.
That's the point of this thread.
Let's keep it that way.
Re: electraglide

Nothing's to stop someone from voluntarily donating. You'll even get a tax deduction receipt. How much have you personally donated? 
Ppl always talk shit when it's "government money" as if it's just sitting in a pile out behind a shed somewhere waiting to be burned.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> man, i think your being a bit harsh on mikey phelps. from what i read, he's done some pretty cool stuff besides swim faster than anyone else on the planet


Where was I harsh? I just called attention to the wealth he's amassed. That's not an indictment of any kind....most likely the companies that endorse him also contribute substantially to amateur sport in the US, and hopefully he pays forward whatever helped him get to where he is.
If corporations want to subsidize Canadian athletes and "step up our Olympic programs" , I'm all for it. But it's a lousy investment to pay for something for 4 years that turns into 2 weeks of advertising. But I'm fine with it if isn't my money.

But now that you mentioned it, smoking bongs and drunk driving are pretty cool I guess. Epic. Seems to piss off the guys in the Rob Ford thread though. Go figure


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> Just wondering how many Canadian Olympians, male or female....summer or winter, are millionaires?


Probably none. You don't make money competing in most of the Olympic events. You spend money. LOTS of it. When it is over, unless you secured some major endorsement deals or tv specials, it is over. For most of them, the only long-term benefit of being an Olympic medalist is the conversation it brings up in job interviews when the employer reads "Olympic medalist" on their resume.


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

jbealsmusic said:


> For most of them, the only long-term benefit of being an Olympic medalist is the conversation it brings up in job interviews when the employer reads "Olympic medalist" on their resume.


Unless they got degrees to go with that, most of them won't even get to interview at most companies. Why do you think they all either work in sports, or tv/radio?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Diablo said:


> Canadian? Few if any.
> That's the point of this thread.
> Let's keep it that way.
> Re: electraglide
> ...


How much have I personally donated? Over the years probably $3,000 to $4,000. If you include Special Olympics twice that much. Never asked for a tax deduction'


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Jamdog said:


> Unless they got degrees to go with that, most of them won't even get to interview at most companies. Why do you think they all either work in sports, or tv/radio?


Quite possibly because they have a passion for their sport and that's what they've been trained in. Don't see why they need degrees to get a job and their chance of getting an interview is as good as anyone else.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

capnjim said:


> Canadian women: 9 medals
> Canadian men: 0 medals.
> Come on guys.....seriously.



Well they royally screwed up the rowing and we could have been expected to medal in that. In rowing they decided against big boats (ie. eights) and thought that splitting teams into smaller boats (ie. fours) would give them more medal chances. That plan failed miserably and I expect some major changes at Rowing Canada after this.

Other than that, I think scheduling has a lot to do with it as events that men will perform well in are coming up on the schedule.


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

Electraglide said:


> Quite possibly because they have a passion for their sport and that's what they've been trained in. Don't see why they need degrees to get a job and their chance of getting an interview is as good as anyone else.


I fail to see them compete for any job not related to their sport. You point does not hold. 

Their big problem is that beside competing, their skill is generally pretty much non useful. 

What does a diver do in the private sector? 

Or a gymnast? 

Unless they manage to make money out of their sport, their skill set is not being recognized.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Diablo said:


> Why?
> What's the importance of it really?
> Let's be honest, what does Olympic performance say about a country?
> Is Canada inferior to Jamaica because they win some medals in sprinting?
> ...


True, it really makes no difference to the country other than a week or two of national pride. All like most other sports, it becomes a play ground for the well off. Kids from poor homes don't make it no mater how talented they are. (IMHO)


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Robert1950 said:


> Women are just better. Period.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Lincoln said:


> Probably a really good indication that Canada really needs to step up it's Olympic program. maybe the females are stronger because they are "supported" more by parents and spouses wile training, where as the guys are left to fend for themselves and can't survive without working jobs which cuts into their training time.



We have stepped it up, the program is called 'Own the Podium'. But it takes time to see results especially when funding is tied to medals won. It really paid off in the winter Olympics (the only ones that matter).


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Jamdog said:


> I fail to see them compete for any job not related to their sport.


Because the only ones you see are the ones who remain in the media. The rest of them? You wouldn't know them if you were behind them in line at Timmy's, and you definitely wouldn't see them competing for jobs out in the real world. Hell, one could interview at the same company you work at and, unless it spread through the rumour mill, you'd never know it.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Lincoln said:


> True, it really makes no difference to the country other than a week or two of national pride. All like most other sports, it becomes a play ground for the well off. Kids from poor homes don't make it no mater how talented they are. (IMHO)



Plenty of kids from less privileged backgrounds make it.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

colchar said:


> Because the only ones you see are the ones who remain in the media. The rest of them? You wouldn't know them if you were behind them in line at Timmy's, and you definitely wouldn't see them competing for jobs out in the real world. Hell, one could interview at the same company you work at and, unless it spread through the rumour mill, you'd never know it.


Most probably stay involved in coaching. The few famous ones can get public speaking engagements at corporate events.
And the rest prob parlay their experince into mundane jobs unrelated to their sport....insurance sales, that sort of thing, where maybe their story gives them a slight edge. Prob no different than other Canadian ex athletes ie. CFL players.


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

colchar said:


> Hell, one could interview at the same company you work at and, unless it spread through the rumour mill, you'd never know it.


Unless they made more than just their competitions, I would be VERY surprised to see any athletes pass an interview where I work, as they have none of the prerequisits. 

The point here is that doing the Olympics is not a free pass to future success. The ones who turn around and leave their sports to work elsewhere have done more than just competing. Unless they end up with some sort of jobs where their relative fame can turn out useful. Sales perhaps? 
Maybe things without experience required like call centers. 

Would you like a sprinter with no degree as your dentist? Would you like your pharmaceutical technician to be a swimmer with no pharmaceutical experience?
A lot of Olympians do just that for years, and while they succeed in their sports, they aren't guaranteed a future career. 

How many Canadian gold medalists turn out to be millionaires?


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Diablo said:


> Where was I harsh?
> 
> But now that you mentioned it, smoking bongs and drunk driving are pretty cool I guess. Epic. Seems to piss off the guys in the Rob Ford thread though. Go figure


maybe i am misreading your implied intent. when you said  _Let's not forget, Phelps for example, has earned about $100m ,_* in spite of his controversies. *i took that to mean that you felt because of his mistakes, he was not deserving of the fame and the money. if that's what you're saying, then i feel it's a little harsh because i don't see smoking a bong as worse than having a beer. the dui thing? not cool, but i know lots of celebs and regular joes who have at least one, and some still continue to drive that way. i don't see him as any worse than anyone else because he had one dui. i do know he's mentored and assisted poor kids so they could compete as swimmers. i think one of them competed against him in rio. his one dui and being a stoner doesn't take away the achievements he made in his sport, or the work it took to accomplish them. jmo of course. 



Jamdog said:


> Would you like a sprinter with no degree as your dentist? Would you like your pharmaceutical technician to be a swimmer with no pharmaceutical experience?
> A lot of Olympians do just that for years, and while they succeed in their sports, they aren't guaranteed a future career.


both are compulsory trades in ontario and require a C of Q. if they meet the minimum standard they are certified just like the guy you are more familiar with at your local clinic or shoppers drug mart. you have no idea what their scores are either. all you know is, they passed the test. if the a canadian olympic athlete has meets the requirements to take the test, and then passes it, by law they're good enough.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Interesting article here:
How an Olympic champion invests his money

Some sports pay better than others though.
I remember seeing Ben Johnsons Ferrari Testarossa around town back in the 90's.
And Donovan Bailey had some restaurants in the west end.


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

cheezyridr said:


> if the a canadian olympic athlete has meets the requirements to take the test, and then passes it, by law they're good enough.


Thanks for proving my point. 

If they just do their sports and competition, they don't have requirements for anything. If they do have requirements, they didn't only partake in their sports. 

Their sport alone won't insure a non-sportive future, and their sport alone may not give them a lifetime of subsistence. 

Being Olympic athlete comes with a share of sacrifices.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> maybe i am misreading your implied intent. when you said  _Let's not forget, Phelps for example, has earned about $100m ,_* in spite of his controversies. *i took that to mean that you felt because of his mistakes, he was not deserving of the fame and the money. if that's what you're saying, then i feel it's a little harsh because i don't see smoking a bong as worse than having a beer. the dui thing? not cool, but i know lots of celebs and regular joes who have at least one, and some still continue to drive that way. i don't see him as any worse than anyone else because he had one dui. i do know he's mentored and assisted poor kids so they could compete as swimmers. i think one of them competed against him in rio. his one dui and being a stoner doesn't take away the achievements he made in his sport, or the work it took to accomplish them. jmo of course.
> 
> 
> 
> both are compulsory trades in ontario and require a C of Q. if they meet the minimum standard they are certified just like the guy you are more familiar with at your local clinic or shoppers drug mart. you have no idea what their scores are either. all you know is, they passed the test. if the a canadian olympic athlete has meets the requirements to take the test, and then passes it, by law they're good enough.


Cheezy, you are too sensitive about comments about illegal drugs.
This is what I meant, and I'd be surprised if you disagreed with it.
Athletes are compensated by corporate endorsements. Much more true with Olympic athletes.
When an athlete runs afoul of laws or morals, they are perceived as less marketable. Often even lose endorsement deals. This impacts their income/wealth. Phelps could have made substantially more if he was squeaky clean.
I'm not the one that's judging. I don't think athletes should be seen as role models anymore. They aren't capable of that burden.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Jamdog said:


> I fail to see them compete for any job not related to their sport. You point does not hold.
> 
> Their big problem is that beside competing, their skill is generally pretty much non usefull.
> h non
> ...


They can teach in their sport. Be it on the international level or in their home town. And why should they go looking for a job in something they are not trained for unless it's an entry level/learn on the job kind of employment. Or, unless they go back for re-training. As far as saying "
their skill is generally pretty much non usefull." that can be said about any sports figure. For that matter a lot of people. Plus part of that skill is the dedication they put into reaching their goals. 
As far as needing a degree to get a job, there's a lot of jobs that don't need degrees and pay quite nicely.....mine for instance. What does a pharmacy tech do if for one reason or another gets out of that game.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Jamdog said:


> Unless they made more than just their competitions, I would be VERY surprised to see any athletes pass an interview where I work, as they have none of the prerequisits.


First, when I said you wouldn't know if they were interviewing where you work I was speaking more generally. But if you want to be specific, how do you know they don't have the required skills or educations? The majority of them parlay their athletic skill into scholarships and free educations. I've taught at the university level and had athletes in many of my classes.



> The point here is that doing the Olympics is not a free pass to future success.


No, but it can certainly open doors.




> Would you like a sprinter with no degree as your dentist?


Well since one cannot be licensed as a dentist without the required education that is a moot point isn't it?




> Would you like your pharmaceutical technician to be a swimmer with no pharmaceutical experience?


They can easily get that by parlaying their athletic endeavors into an education.





> A lot of Olympians do just that for years, and while they succeed in their sports, they aren't guaranteed a future career.


Nobody said they were. And the dedication that it takes to become one of the best in the world at a given sport can be applied to getting an education which can lead to whatever job they are qualified for.





> How many Canadian gold medalists turn out to be millionaires?


How would I know? While we don't have the same sponsorship culture that exists in the US you can bet that there are some who are making some good coin.

I will say, however, that the night Ben Johnson came into the bar I was working in he pulled up outside in a Ferrari (oops, just noticed someone mentioned that above). You can bet your bottom dollar that Donovan Bailey made some pretty damned good bank too. And I bet Clara Hughes isn't hurting. She won't be making what those two made, but you can bet she earned plenty in endorsements.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Jamdog said:


> How many Canadian gold medalists turn out to be millionaires?


Not as many as Hockey players.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

colchar said:


> First, when I said you wouldn't know if they were interviewing where you work I was speaking more generally. But if you want to be specific, how do you know they don't have the required skills or educations? The majority of them parlay their athletic skill into scholarships and free educations. I've taught at the university level and had athletes in many of my classes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I forget was it Ben Johnson or Donovan Bailey who lost their medals. I think Rob Boyd still teaches skiing in Whistler.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2016)

Bruce?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Bruce?


Does she or doesn't she?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

colchar said:


> Because the only ones you see are the ones who remain in the media. The rest of them? You wouldn't know them if you were behind them in line at Timmy's, and you definitely wouldn't see them competing for jobs out in the real world. Hell, one could interview at the same company you work at and, unless it spread through the rumour mill, you'd never know it.


They also could be serving at timmies and maybe even own a franchise or two. Melissa Hollingsworth barrel races and if you smoke medical M in B.C. you might have heard of the Ross in 'Ross's Gold'.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Bruce?



Shouldn't Jenner have to return the medals for lying about his gender and competing in the wrong division?


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

The men suck slightly less now with a bronze by DeGrasse in the 100m


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Bolt's finishing speed was ridiculous...it looked like Gatlin was standing still for the final 20 meters.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

ZeroGravity said:


> The men suck slightly less now with a bronze by DeGrasse in the 100m


Yup, and re: the question about how many become millionaires, he had a deal with Puma for $11.25M before the games even started, at the age of 21.
We probably need to make a distinction between professional and amateur Olympians, since the Olympics no longer does.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

johnnyshaka said:


> Bolt's finishing speed was ridiculous...it looked like Gatlin was standing still for the final 20 meters.


He put on quite a show. That was a great race to watch.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> I forget was it Ben Johnson or Donovan Bailey who lost their medals. I think Rob Boyd still teaches skiing in Whistler.


Ben. A pretty awful story too. The guy just couldn't stop doping.
In fairness, it came out later that at the time 80% of the athletes were doing it too.
I remember see him driving his Testarossa on the Qew...the license plate was his winning time....9 89 or whatever it was.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

When I think about it, I think I'd rather have an Olympic medal than a university degree. Like many grads, my degree had little to do with my career, other than checking a box that I had a degree. And, when I applied for my jobs, prob 90% of applicants had a similar degree. I bet I would have got lots more interviews if my Olympic status made me stand out from the crowd. And so many companies have old boys clubs that would have loved to welcome a pseudo-celebrity.

Plus, I bet most Olympians have univ degrees anyways, free ones from scholarships, possibly from US schools as well.

And then there's the pussy.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Diablo said:


> When I think about it, I think I'd rather have an Olympic medal than a university degree. Like many grads, my degree had little to do with my career, other than checking a box that I had a degree. And, when I applied for my jobs, prob 90% of applicants had a similar degree. I bet I would have got lots more interviews if my Olympic status made me stand out from the crowd. And so many companies have old boys clubs that would have loved to welcome a pseudo-celebrity.
> 
> Plus, I bet most Olympians have univ degrees anyways, free ones from scholarships, possibly from US schools as well.
> 
> And then there's the pussy.


I've worked with a lot of people with degrees in jobs where the degrees were useless. The jobs payed a lot more than the degree jobs did.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Diablo said:


> Yup, and re: the question about how many become millionaires, he had a deal with Puma for $11.25M before the games even started, at the age of 21.
> We probably need to make a distinction between professional and amateur Olympians, since the Olympics no longer does.


The kid from my home town....Vernon B.C. is a professional tennis player and from what I understand has made about $5,000,000 in his short career..... Vasek Pospisil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . Not too sure how much money Rob Boyd ever made....same home town, go figure...but knowing his family I figure he's happy with what he's doing now. His folks ranch was about a mile or so from ours.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

A convincing gold in men's high jump.

Nicely done.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Electraglide said:


> Not too sure how much money Rob Boyd ever made....same home town, go figure...but knowing his family I figure he's happy with what he's doing now. His folks ranch was about a mile or so from ours.


Skiing is something I am familiar with. As a North American ski racer, I can almost guarantee he didn't make much. Even though in his day he was one of the top Canadian mens' racers, he probably didn't make enough to cover his expenses. Ski racing is not a lucrative endeavor in North America between the few sponsorships and the way Alpine Canada structures its costs (ie most of the money goes to Alpine Canada). You'd be lucky just to break even and only the very handful can "make a living" at it like Ligety, Vonn, and Guay. Many are out of pocket for 10's of thousands per season. Smart ones are usually able to parley their athletic background into a decent job like broadcasting (Stemmle, Lee-Gartner, Brooker) but most becomes average Joes.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

ZeroGravity said:


> Skiing is something I am familiar with. As a North American ski racer, I can almost guarantee he didn't make much. Even though in his day he was one of the top Canadian mens' racers, he probably didn't make enough to cover his expenses. Ski racing is not a lucrative endeavor in North America between the few sponsorships and the way Alpine Canada structures its costs (ie most of the money goes to Alpine Canada). You'd be lucky just to break even and only the very handful can "make a living" at it like Ligety, Vonn, and Guay. Many are out of pocket for 10's of thousands per season. Smart ones are usually able to parley their athletic background into a decent job like broadcasting (Stemmle, Lee-Gartner, Brooker) but most becomes average Joes.


The funny thing is, is that if you asked any of the Crazy Canucks if they did it for the money they would laugh in your face.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Milkman said:


> A convincing gold in men's high jump.
> 
> Nicely done.


That was an entertaining event...mostly because of the guys from Qatar and Ukraine-still trying to figure out what he was up to at the end.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> The funny thing is, is that if you asked any of the Crazy Canucks if they did it for the money they would laugh in your face.


Times were different. Even hockey players weren't in it for the money, nor was there much there for them anyways. Gordie Howe wasn't exactly super rich. For a guy who's name was Mr Hockey and played in several decades, his net worth last year was about what Phil Kessel makes in a year.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Especially in their day, where ski racing was something those Euros did. I don't think a lot of athletes outside of the big major sports (hockey, football, basketball, baseball) do it for the money but they also don't want to be in the poor house at the end of their sporting careers either. Unfortunately in Canada most athletes are out of pocket a considerable amount to make it to the national level. I probably added 5 or more years to my retirement plans paying for my kid's ski racing.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Krelf said:


> Canada treats women more fairly than many other nations. In many other countries funds earmarked for Olympic sports are meted out in a manner that is heavily weighed toward developing male athletes.
> 
> This is a contributing factor, coupled by the fact that Canadian women have a higher degree of access to quality coaches and workout areas. Less prosperous and enlightened countries often give women lower priority to such facilities.


Cogent comment. Many of the competing countries don't do as much for their female athletes as many other countries, like Canada, do. 
There is also the factor of the list of events for competition. As an example, as many have noted, one of the reasons why Michael Phelps has so many medals is because there are so many swimming events, and the body type required for any single one of them is not dramatically different from many of the others. Freestyle and butterfly do not require different body types the way that, say 100m and 1000m do, or shot put and high jump do. So, not to take anything away from Penny Oleksiak, but if she was on land, instead of in the water, she would not be wearing_ quite_ as much bling today.

The appearance of female superiority at the Olympics should also be qualified by the phrase "at this point". Not all events or categories of events are going on each day.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Diablo said:


> Times were different. Even hockey players weren't in it for the money, nor was there much there for them anyways. Gordie Howe wasn't exactly super rich. For a guy who's name was Mr Hockey and played in several decades, his net worth last year was about what Phil Kessel makes in a year.


Not much different. Hockey players and the like (Pro athletes) at least got paid a wage. 1970 the average hockey player wage was about $18,000 according to Google. I was IWA, made about $11,000 a year.....didn't make $20,000 until 1973 when I was millwright apprentice with a first aid ticket. The new contract finally kicked in. They just said on tv that in the states a gold medal gets the winner $25,ooo.....in Canada it's $20,000. And it's taxable. They sure don't do it for the money.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> They just said on tv that in the states a gold medal gets the winner $25,ooo.....in Canada it's $20,000. And it's taxable. They sure don't do it for the money.


Wow. $20K doesn't even cover training & travel expenses for a year for most athletes.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

jbealsmusic said:


> Wow. $20K doesn't even cover training & travel expenses for a year for most athletes.


It's not the value of the medals, they're a ticket to endorsement deals.
Its like the way playing NCAA basketball or football is basically at the poverty line...but there is a payback afterwards for those that perform well.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Diablo said:


> It's not the value of the medals, they're a ticket to endorsement deals.
> Its like the way playing NCAA basketball or football is basically at the poverty line...but there is a payback afterwards for those that perform well.



I get what you mean, but NCAA athletes are not supposed to receive any form of remuneration other than their school scholarships. This is broken all the time of course but in theory. It's was also a big deal for a while because some college athletes believe they should be paid because the NCAA has almost a billion of dollars a year in revenue using student-athletes as unpaid employees.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

ZeroGravity said:


> I get what you mean, but NCAA athletes are not supposed to receive any form of remuneration other than their school scholarships. This is broken all the time of course but in theory. It's was also a big deal for a while because some college athletes believe they should be paid because the NCAA has almost a billion of dollars a year in revenue using student-athletes as unpaid employees.


True, but remember, the Olympics has historically also been a showcase for _amateur sport ie low paid_.
it wasnt until the late '80s or 90s that they realized revenues would go up drastically if they allowed pros also. The Dream Team IMO changed things forever.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Medal count is bullshit.

Our mens' and womens' hockey teams won gold at Sochi. By my count that's around 60 gold medals, not 2. The count means nothing because not all medals are worth the same. How can anyone say a two week team-sport tournament should get counted the same as a one minute long swim race. Ridiculous!


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

I personally think the Olympics should be about putting your best athletes forward, pro or amateur. In fact I would think that this actually works in favour of "lesser sports" because pro athletes are already making a decent living, don't need development pathways and training and should need less $$ from government sports organizations so the money can be spread to other sports.

The distinction I was trying make was more specific to NCAA athletes vs other amateur (i.e. National Team) athletes in your example about living in poverty. The distinction being that NCAA athletes cannot be paid in any manner other than scholarship money, even in the off-season or they lose their eligibility. There should be no expectation from a NCAA athlete to be earning their living while playing a college sport where other amateur athletes still need to make a living while they compete. In that sense NCAA athletes are entirely working to compete or for potential future professional or endorsement opportunity, although you could argue that getting a (nearly) free education and not spending 100K + is remuneration enough.


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

jbealsmusic said:


> Wow. $20K doesn't even cover training & travel expenses for a year for most athletes.


That is why there is multiple competitions that they go to.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Xelebes said:


> That is why there is multiple competitions that they go to.


You don't win anything at most of those and you pay out of pocket to travel to and enter those competitions. Even with sponsorship deals, unless you're already a big name draw, you're not going to win much at any competition other than the Olympics because sponsors don't see any value in the limited exposure.

I have a friend who competed in weightlifting. She was a sponsored Canadian national champion. To keep certain sponsorships and financial support she had to compete at numerous provincial, national, North American, and International competitions including Pan Am and Commonwealth. She had to do fundraisers and ask for donations to cover travel & entrance expenses and had to pay out of pocket for the remainder. She worked full time and trained up to 20 hours a week. After taking into account all sport related expenses, she made less money than if she just worked full time and had a normal life.

Bottom line is, unless you're a top draw with too many medals to count you don't do it for the money.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

This is the norm in Alpine Skiing. Even A-Card athletes are expected to pay somewhere around 10K/year. If anyone is interested about costs etc, search for Larisa Yurkiw's story about how she was dropped by the Canadian Ski Team and either had to quit or go it alone to the tune of 200-250K. Pat Biggs had to pay up in the nieghbourhood of 50-80K for several seasons, and most recently one of most successful mens' skiers was told to pay up 80K. He is skiing for the Czech Republic this year, all-paid.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

ZeroGravity said:


> I personally think the Olympics should be about putting your best athletes forward, pro or amateur. In fact I would think that this actually works in favour of "lesser sports" because pro athletes are already making a decent living, don't need development pathways and training and should need less $$ from government sports organizations so the money can be spread to other sports.


I don't see how that works, in reality.
Its why you see 1st world countries with hundreds of athletes at the games, and some poorer nations with literally a handful or a dozen. and yet, one of the largest countries in the world, India, is pretty much a non issue in the games.
its all about the money. if you have pros, you can basically buy medals. is that really the spirit of the games?
I still think back to The 92 Dream Team and how boastfully they bullied and embarrassed every other country in basketball. there was no fun in that.
We Reminisce: Charles Barkley Elbows Angolan Player
for those that don't remember, after the US scored 30+ unanswered points on Angola, Barkley nails one of their players with a vicious elbow, and later justified it by saying it was because he thought he "might be carrying a spear'.
Classy.
My point being, Pros and amateurs don't mix. and when you put pros in there, it cannibalizes attention from the amateur sports, and the inequity perpetuates. and the only reason they did it, was for $$$$$ for the IOC , broadcasters and sponsors. the pros don't care, lots decline the invite.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

My thinking is that with using pro sport athletes, chronically under funded government sports organizations don't have to spend nearly as much money to pull together and develop a national team, you simply pick and choose from the pro ranks. The athletes are already trained, developed and are not facing the same financial constraints as non-professional athletes. 

The money not spent on comprehensive amateur development programs for some sports (i.e hockey, soccer, tennis, golf) could be distributed to the sports that don't have prosperous pro ranks, that need more of a government funded development path.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

ZeroGravity said:


> *My thinking is that with using pro sport athletes, chronically under funded government sports organizations don't have to spend nearly as much money to pull together and develop a national team, you simply pick and choose from the pro ranks. The athletes are already trained, developed and are not facing the same financial constraints as non-professional athletes.*
> 
> The money not spent on comprehensive amateur development programs for some sports (i.e hockey, soccer, tennis, golf) could be distributed to the sports that don't have prosperous pro ranks, that need more of a government funded development path.


how did these poor countries get this windfall of pro athletes then? there had to be some infrastructure for their development as well.
answer: they don't. Not many anyways. they rely on motivation and the occasional genepool lottery win.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Diablo said:


> how did these poor countries get this windfall of pro athletes then? there had to be some infrastructure for their development as well.
> answer: they don't. Not many anyways. they rely on motivation and the occasional genepool lottery win.


Very liberal views towards chemical inhancement doesn't hurt either.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Wading in late and no doubt unwelcome to some. The question is bigger... why does *Canada* suck so bad at the Olympics?!

It was *really* moving last night to watch Erica Wiebe's skilled gold-medal win, and especially to see her emotion after it and at the awards ceremony. It probably would have been similarly exciting and moving to see Damian Warner's historic bronze performance but I somehow missed all of it in the blizzard of Olympic things on TV (like women's GOLF, fer gawd's sake!)

But why is it that we have so few of these moments, and so *many* in which Canadians are at the back of the pack, or even LAST?

For an answer, our Olympic officials might look towards Britain which once lagged well back with us in medal standings but in recent Olympics has surged ahead, currently standing third behind the mighty United States (we're 20th!) What did they do in Britain to achieve this? Euro-immigration probably part of it, but what else? Why can't we do it?!

My wife, weary of my grousing about this, counters with the consideration that we do much better in winter Olympics than many of the countries ahead of us in the summer Olympics, and that winter-games training probably saps resources we could apply to summer-games athletes. Fair enough. But many of them don't even HAVE winter to support winter sports. We DO have running tracks, swimming pools, velodromes (and freakin' golf courses) to support training for the summer games. There must be more to it, what is it?


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

boyscout said:


> Wading in late and no doubt unwelcome to some. The question is bigger... why does *Canada* suck so bad at the Olympics?!
> 
> It was *really* moving last night to watch Erica Wiebe's skilled gold-medal win, and especially to see her emotion after it and at the awards ceremony. It probably would have been similarly exciting and moving to see Damian Warner's historic bronze performance but I somehow missed all of it in the blizzard of Olympic things on TV (like women's GOLF, fer gawd's sake!)
> 
> ...


Well both of these countries have a larger population base would be one place to start. I've always been under impression following any sports that I follow that other countries are very willing to send their athletes all over the world for training as well. It's not just about the facilities a country has, it's who they train with. We do have all the facilities, but I think comparatively we sink a lot less money into development of the athletes than MOST other countries who do well. Other countries focus on sports that we don't, and focus on way MORE sports in general.

You mentioned golf, the top tier of golfers in the world is a really really small group. Even cracking the top 100 is a huge feat. The top 25 is a really elite bunch. So it's not really that strange that Canada hasn't produced very many high rankings golfers. The Olympics had a few of the best from the PGA tour, and some of the best from other European tours that we rarely hear about here. Graham Delaet finishing 20 in that field at the Olypmics was pretty decent.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I think it is worth considering that the folks who get developed into high-performance athletes in any given country did not start from scratch. In many cases, they were doing something for fun and a pastime, or even because it was part of daily life, and it eventually got folded into more high-performance development. So, places like Kenya and Ethiopia regularly churn out winning long-distance runners, but no short-distance champs Jamaica, meanwhile has a very entrenched culture of competitive short-distance running starting in primary grades. As much as the USA takes in gold here and there, it will take a VERY long time before they can be as competitive in soccer as they are in basketball or swimming. Now if there were a football competition, they'd obviously take gold for the next 100 years.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Does Canada "suck" so bad at the Olympics? When you're up against the best in the world and you come in last doesn't mean you "suck".


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Andre DeGrasse (Canada) won bronze in the mens 100 meter sprint. A new comer to sprinting. This is the premier event at the Olympics. Always has been. He followed it up with a silver in the 200 meter sprint. Suck on that all you Debbie downers.


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

A bronze in speedwalking. Woot!


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

I found this page interesting:

Olympic Medals per Capita

Canada is ahead of the U.S. in medals-per-capita in both the Rio Olympics and all-time (bottom of the drop-down list).


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Xelebes said:


> A bronze in speedwalking. Woot!


I do believe that puts us 10th in total medal count.


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

And two more bronzes. Soccer and equestrian jump-off.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Distortion said:


> Andre DeGrasse (Canada) won bronze in the mens 100 meter sprint. A new comer to sprinting. This is the premier event at the Olympics. Always has been. He followed it up with a silver in the 200 meter sprint. Suck on that all you Debbie downers.


He's incredibly fast,and a great story. 

But am I the only one who thinks Bolt isn't really taking this seriously?
He's having fun, which is great for the sport, but it looks to me like he's trying just hard enough to win....and nothing more. Like its just a "friendly" or something. He doesn't look like he's out to break any records, yet probably could.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Re: Bolt

Maybe true of the semi-finals but I can't think he wasn't giving it his all in the two finals. It is probably his last Oly experience and I think a record was on his mind (at least for the 200m) and you didn't see DeGrasse cruise up to him in the last 50 of that race. Some of the talking heads speculated that if he wasn't pushing a wind, it may have happened.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Diablo said:


> He's incredibly fast,and a great story.
> 
> But am I the only one who thinks Bolt isn't really taking this seriously?
> He's having fun, which is great for the sport, but it looks to me like he's trying just hard enough to win....and nothing more. Like its just a "friendly" or something. He doesn't look like he's out to break any records, yet probably could.


I believe Bolt holds the records for 100m and 200m. I think in the 100 he missed the record in 0.3 of a second. The 200 by maybe 0.6 of a second. That's less than a heart beat. He was having fun and going out in style.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Our men benefit from the US getting DQ'd from the 4 X 100 relay and snag a bronze...that's the 3rd medal for DeGrasse...wow!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> I believe Bolt holds the records for 100m and 200m. I think in the 100 he missed the record in 0.3 of a second. The 200 by maybe 0.6 of a second. That's less than a heart beat. He was having fun and going out in style.


It seems rather foolish, and particularly cocky on my part to say so (as registered couch potato), but even though he continues to win, Bolt has been "slowing down" over the series of 3 Olympics. I don't know if that's a characteristic of how fast he _had_ to run to beat the competition, or simply getting "older". It's not like he's going to be 44 in the next Olympics. The guy is only 29. On the other hand, if those extra 1/10ths of a second do come from age, then as fast as he could be in 2020 - and he could kick the ass of any of us here - he probably couldn't be fast enough to do better than bronze next time around, given the competition.

That's the thing about Olympics: "next season" is not starting up 6 months after the league final. It's starting up 4 years from now, so you have to wonder about how old you'll be then, and who is likely to come out of the woodwork to pose the competition between now and then.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mhammer said:


> It seems rather foolish, and particularly cocky on my part to say so (as registered couch potato), but even though he continues to win, Bolt has been "slowing down" over the series of 3 Olympics. I don't know if that's a characteristic of how fast he _had_ to run to beat the competition, or simply getting "older". It's not like he's going to be 44 in the next Olympics. The guy is only 29. On the other hand, if those extra 1/10ths of a second do come from age, then as fast as he could be in 2020 - and he could kick the ass of any of us here - he probably couldn't be fast enough to do better than bronze next time around, given the competition.
> 
> That's the thing about Olympics: "next season" is not starting up 6 months after the league final. It's starting up 4 years from now, so you have to wonder about how old you'll be then, and who is likely to come out of the woodwork to pose the competition between now and then.


Tomorrow Bolt could run a race and break his record.....or De Grasse could hand him his ass on a platter. Hard to say. Could be that there's some kids some where who comes out of the woodwork and blows both of them out of the water and set a new worlds record. And then they might not make the olympic teams. As far as starting up, they're training and racing all the time so for the most part they know who's coming up.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

mhammer said:


> It seems rather foolish, and particularly cocky on my part to say so (as registered couch potato), but even though he continues to win, Bolt has been "slowing down" over the series of 3 Olympics. I don't know if that's a characteristic of how fast he _had_ to run to beat the competition, or simply getting "older". It's not like he's going to be 44 in the next Olympics. The guy is only 29. On the other hand, if those extra 1/10ths of a second do come from age, then as fast as he could be in 2020 - and he could kick the ass of any of us here - he probably couldn't be fast enough to do better than bronze next time around, given the competition.
> 
> That's the thing about Olympics: "next season" is not starting up 6 months after the league final. It's starting up 4 years from now, so you have to wonder about how old you'll be then, and who is likely to come out of the woodwork to pose the competition between now and then.


THe thing to me is, bolt doesn't look slower, he just looks more sloppy,laxadaisacal. I think he has tons of speed left, but little hunger.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Diablo said:


> THe thing to me is, bolt doesn't look slower, he just looks more sloppy,laxadaisacal. I think he has tons of speed left, but little hunger.


Hard to tell. Certainly his demeanor is exactly as you describe, and he is actually having fun with his title as "world's fastest man". Plus, having already done it convincingly, twice, I don't think he felt the need to prove anything to anyone (which is where the dance moves came from). On the other hand, "not caring" is not the sort of thing that is typically reflected in a few 10ths of a second. I mean 9.81 is not the sort of speed you run with a "Yeah, whatever" attitude. But it is _slower_ than he ran in 2012, which was a bit slower than he ran in 2008.

I have no idea what the guy's training regimen is and whether it differed in any way, in preparation for these games, relative to previous ones. Which is why I say I can't tell how much is age, and how much attitude. For my part, though, even if he tries again in 2020 and gets disqualified for a false start, or falls flat on his face, the guy's name is sealed and embossed in the annals of sport and human achievement. Will we remember him like we remember Louis Cyr in 100 years? I guess time will tell.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Hard to tell. Certainly his demeanor is exactly as you describe, and he is actually having fun with his title as "world's fastest man". Plus, having already done it convincingly, twice, I don't think he felt the need to prove anything to anyone (which is where the dance moves came from). On the other hand, "not caring" is not the sort of thing that is typically reflected in a few 10ths of a second. I mean 9.81 is not the sort of speed you run with a "Yeah, whatever" attitude. But it is _slower_ than he ran in 2012, which was a bit slower than he ran in 2008.
> 
> I have no idea what the guy's training regimen is and whether it differed in any way, in preparation for these games, relative to previous ones. Which is why I say I can't tell how much is age, and how much attitude. For my part, though, even if he tries again in 2020 and gets disqualified for a false start, or falls flat on his face, the guy's name is sealed and embossed in the annals of sport and human achievement. Will we remember him like we remember Louis Cyr in 100 years? I guess time will tell.


How about Jim Thorpe? Louis Cyr....that one took a minute or two. No one's beaten that record but unless you pump iron or learned about him in school in Canadian history he's not well known. Roger Bannister maybe?
Bolt ran fast enough to win. If De Grasse had run a little faster maybe Bolt would have set a new record.


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

Electraglide said:


> How about Jim Thorpe? Louis Cyr....that one took a minute or two. No one's beaten that record but unless you pump iron or learned about him in school in Canadian history he's not well known. Roger Bannister maybe?
> Bolt ran fast enough to win. If De Grasse had run a little faster maybe Bolt would have set a new record.


You need to watch more movies

Louis Cyr (2013) - IMDb


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

They keep saying Bolt won't be back for the next Olympics. I bet he will be back and will probably win. I agree with those who say it didn't seem like he was trying his hardest. He likes to party and enjoy life. I'm sure he could spend the next three years partying and get serious a year before the Olympics and come back big time and win another three Gold medals.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Jamdog said:


> You need to watch more movies
> 
> Louis Cyr (2013) - IMDb


Not a lot out there that I want to watch.


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