# Amp tone vs pedals



## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

This is a friend's explanation of the difference between my Traynor YCV40WR and his Fuchs Overdrive Supreme, which is horribly expensive, but still makes me wonder why I waste so much time and money trying to find the perfect overdrive and distortion pedal:

"It is hard to say why the Fuchs is better other than to say basically it's just extremely responsive and very harmonically complex. It responds to the guitar's volume knob like nothing I've ever played before. Goes from BB King to Gary Moore just by twisting the guitar's volume. Wants to hold every note forever even on the clean channel. Hits harmonic feedback and infinite sustain every time with no effort at all. Cleans are really fat. Light crunch is really clear and jangly. Heavy crunch is huge and fat and singing leads are up the with the best of anything Gary Moore ever produced. Sounds great at low volume too. I've never felt like I want to hook an attenuator up to it. There really is a big difference."


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

After seeing your posting, i did a search to read about it..."hooribly expensive.." like $30,000.00 ?? holy.. sounds like an*ultimate* kind of amp though.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

ofender said:


> After seeing your posting, i did a search to read about it..."hooribly expensive.." like $30,000.00 ?? holy.. sounds like an*ultimate* kind of amp though.


...not THAT expensive!

the overdrive supreme 50-watt 1-12 combo is $3,295.00 USD. the 30-watt 1-12 combo is $2,895.00 USD.

that's still a ton of dough, but if it gives me the kind of tone and response described by my friend, i think i'd be willing to make the sacrifice. i could probably raise half of that just by selling a few amps and pedals!

trouble is, of course, there is no way of trying one out in toronto, unless you guys know of a dealer who carries a couple of models in stock...anyone?


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...not THAT expensive!
> 
> the overdrive supreme 50-watt 1-12 combo is $3,295.00 USD. the 30-watt 1-12 combo is $2,895.00 USD.
> 
> ...


The 1st part of the article talks about amp market and copycat products built from ... "rare and expensive amp (we're talking 30k these days)"... and I assume that that's what you meant before reading futher in the article. Sorry!

http://www.guitarplayer.com/story.asp?sectioncode=6&storycode=7


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

IMO, if possible an amp cranked up with sound/react better than pedals. Problem I have is that in most situations I can't crank an amp up so I have to depend on pedals.


Fuchs:

I have an ODS 30, that I've done most of the SLX mods on. In most cases his description is spot on. Warning: It's a different type of tone and feel. It's overfiltered so it's stiff and doesn't respond like cranked Fender or Marshall. (I'm going to mod mine to fix this). It's extremely smooth, and if you are used to some edge in your rock tone you aren't going to be happy with the Fuchs.

That said it sustains for days and goes into feedback by simply thinking about it.   



Jeff


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## Q_L_R (Mar 13, 2006)

Ofender, I think the $30K price tag refers to the Dumbles that Fuchs, Two Rock, et al are copying.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> I have an ODS 30, that I've done most of the SLX mods on. In most cases his description is spot on. Warning: It's a different type of tone and feel. It's overfiltered so it's stiff and doesn't respond like cranked Fender or Marshall. (I'm going to mod mine to fix this). It's extremely smooth, and if you are used to some edge in your rock tone you aren't going to be happy with the Fuchs.
> That said it sustains for days and goes into feedback by simply thinking about it.   Jeff



...intriguing. is it your main amp?


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...intriguing. is it your main amp?


Nope, I have 9 amps. I haven't been able to find the perfect speaker for it yet, that fight might be over there is a Heritage G12H30 waiting for me at L&M right now. I'm always messing with the darn thing, Scott Lerner always has some mods to try.

I'm ready to start using it but our electric band is on a break right now.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> Nope, I have 9 amps. I haven't been able to find the perfect speaker for it yet, that fight might be over there is a Heritage G12H30 waiting for me at L&M right now. I'm always messing with the darn thing, Scott Lerner always has some mods to try.
> I'm ready to start using it but our electric band is on a break right now.



...nine amps? what are your favourites?


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...nine amps? what are your favourites?


18 watt just because it seems to be me.

Hot Cat for the higher gain stuff.


I forgot I sold my Pro, I only have 8 amps.


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

Buddy of mine just picked up a Fuchs off Fleabay, a 30 watt head, I sorry don't know the model. Anyways, he raved and raved and when I tried the thing, I was so dissapointed. My Super RI has as much if not better tone than this bootique hotrod. I don't know, but I think we as players stress too much about tone. If you find something that makes you play with your heart, makes you close your eyes when you play, then just stick with it. I`ve been thru so many rigs, what I have now was not too costly, butr serves the purpose. I have three very toneful amps, and excellant pedals for spice. Use what God or whomever yo pray to gave you.

CT.:rockon:


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

CocoTone said:


> Buddy of mine just picked up a Fuchs off Fleabay, a 30 watt head, I sorry don't know the model. Anyways, he raved and raved and when I tried the thing, I was so dissapointed. My Super RI has as much if not better tone than this bootique hotrod. I don't know, but I think we as players stress too much about tone. If you find something that makes you play with your heart, makes you close your eyes when you play, then just stick with it. I`ve been thru so many rigs, what I have now was not too costly, butr serves the purpose. I have three very toneful amps, and excellant pedals for spice. Use what God or whomever yo pray to gave you.
> 
> CT.:rockon:


Yep completely 2 different amps you have to be looking for the Dumble thing, if not, staying with a Fender/Marshall/etc is the way to go.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...i'm beginning to see the light of day on this.

i'm going to try out a rivera amp (pubster), and maybe a zinky blue velvet or dr z, locally. if i'm not blown away, i'll stick with the traynor ycv40wr for now.


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## theelectic (Mar 11, 2006)

You know, it really depends where your tone is coming from. Are you looking for that huge AC/DC or Aerosmith type of crunch? Ain't no pedal in the world that'll replace a cranked up Plexi, I don't care how many knobs it has! On the flip side, if you looking for a Hendrix tone, there's no amp that'll do an octave fuzz and univibe sound (unless you're talking some weird off brand with built in FX - but those are still FX!)

The crux of the issue is folks trying to replicate pure amp tones with pedals - that's an automatic LOSE/LOSE situation (in terms of pure TONE) in my books. However, what you lose in terms of "exactness", you gain in flexibility. It's possible to have ten different amp-like tones at your feet - it's not always possible, and hardly practical, to tote ten different amps with you to every gig. Then again, you may not need ten different tones - but half the fun of a pedal based setup is finding not what it *doesn't* sound exactly like, but what you can make it sound like.

Alright, off my soapbox


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Q_L_R said:


> Ofender, I think the $30K price tag refers to the Dumbles that Fuchs, Two Rock, et al are copying.



TRAINWRECK. That is the 30k amp. Dumbles are quite up there yet.

Fuchs gets constant raves on thegearnet. Andy Fuchs will also answer your e-mails. Gave me a nice detailed explanation about why his attenuator is about six months behind schedule. Very nice guy.


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

Dave, you've obviously been around a long time,,,lots of real gigging experience, and tried the so-called holy grail of amp tones over the years. You're now using a Traynor of modern design. In your mind it obviously doesn't measure up, so why don't you go back to what worked before??? Modern attenuators are very useful tools in using non-master vol amps to still give feel and tone, without the crazy volume, which I know must be a struggle, because you play some of the same rooms as I do. I use a Weber Mass 100 with my Super with excellant results. Maybe that might be the way to get what your after. What is that by the way??

CT.


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> Nope, I have 9 amps. I haven't been able to find the perfect speaker for it yet, that fight might be over there is a Heritage G12H30 waiting for me at L&M right now. I'm always messing with the darn thing, Scott Lerner always has some mods to try.
> 
> I'm ready to start using it but our electric band is on a break right now.



Hey Jeff, I spoke with Scott on the phone for about an hour about his ideas for mods on the slx ( I have the 30 head)... he said you have done them... what did you think? thanks, David


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...i'm beginning to see the light of day on this.
> 
> i'm going to try out a rivera amp (pubster), and maybe a zinky blue velvet or dr z, locally. if i'm not blown away, i'll stick with the traynor ycv40wr for now.


Hey David, 

I personally don't like the sound of pedal distortion compared to just about any good amp... 

As for your friend's comments on the Fuchs I agree that it is an amazing amp. I have a ods 30 slx and I love the tone. But like Jeff said it is more of a liquid/smooth/fusion/Dumble style sound as opposed to the classic Marshall thing... I wouldn't use it to cop the Gary Moore tone myself.


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

Ok Dave,,,don't respond. I can take a hint.

CT.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

bluesmostly said:


> Hey Jeff, I spoke with Scott on the phone for about an hour about his ideas for mods on the slx ( I have the 30 head)... he said you have done them... what did you think? thanks, David


Hour you got off easy, man when Scott get's going he get's going.

So yours is the SLX already? If not than man it will sound much better after them. To be honest everyone of Scott's mods do exactly as he says and plan on applying them as I get them from him.


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## Jaggery (Mar 12, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...i'm beginning to see the light of day on this.
> 
> i'm going to try out a rivera amp (pubster), and maybe a zinky blue velvet or dr z, locally. if i'm not blown away, i'll stick with the traynor ycv40wr for now.


I called Arts and Music store in Newmarket.

They have a Pubster 25 for 799 and Pubster 45 for 999.
I think those are good prices.

From what I read and heard you are not going to get a whole lot more or different from YCV40.


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> Hour you got off easy, man when Scott get's going he get's going.
> 
> So yours is the SLX already? If not than man it will sound much better after them. To be honest everyone of Scott's mods do exactly as he says and plan on applying them as I get them from him.



Yeah, mine is already an SLX, these are post SLX mods that he reccomends to give the gain channel more 'clarity' and thump and volume balance with the clean channel. 

So you haven't done the post slx mods yet?


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

bluesmostly said:


> Yeah, mine is already an SLX, these are post SLX mods that he reccomends to give the gain channel more 'clarity' and thump and volume balance with the clean channel.
> 
> So you haven't done the post slx mods yet?


I just do the mods as Scott gives them to me. Mine never was an SLX so I have not idea what mods are SLX and which aren't.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...i'm beginning to see the light of day on this.
> 
> i'm going to try out a rivera amp (pubster), and maybe a zinky blue velvet or dr z, locally. if i'm not blown away, i'll stick with the traynor ycv40wr for now.


Hi David. I've owned the Traynor ycv40 and now have a Blue Velvet. The Traynor's a good amp but no comparison to the Zinky imho. The Zinky is a lot more expensive though. If you've never heard a Zinky and can put up with my crappy playing I have some examples on my soundclick page. The latest is "story of the blues" which is LP straight into Zinky with no other effects. I'm on the neck pup the whole way but it will give you some idea of the drive channel. 

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=401351&songID=3658158


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

davetcan said:


> . The latest is "story of the blues" which is LP straight into Zinky with no other effects. I'm on the neck pup the whole way but it will give you some idea of the drive channel.


Davetcan,...What settings did you use on your Zinky???


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> Davetcan,...What settings did you use on your Zinky???


It was recorded at just a bit over bedroom level so it was pretty quiet. I think it sounds a lot better opened up.

Settings:

Drive Channel - Gain 2:00, Volume 10:00, Tone 10:00, mid boost, amp volume 8:00, reverb 12:00.
Amp was close miced with a Sennheiser E609 which I prefer to the shure 57.

Les Paul has WCR Darkburst pups and tone and volume were wide open, neck pickup played all the way thru.


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