# Potentiometer for DIY attenuator?



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Would this work for an attenuator pot? I have built one, but it buzzes awful. I have a couple old potentiometers from who the hell knows where. I have wired them each into what will be my attenuator pedal, but both buzz/hum. The hum/buzz increases in sound from nothing to it's loudest at midpoint, back to nothing. The guitar volume does exactly as it's supposed to, loud to quiet. If I plug just the guitar into the attenuator, there is no buzz, but there is almost no volume. If I plug straight into the amp, plenty of volume without touching any settings. Is this the wrong potentiometer, or have I done something wrong? If this is wrong, would the one in the link work for this?

WD Music - Mini Potentiometer 250kohm


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

50k


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Cool. So this is too "hot" for what I need? I think it was 250 on the bottom, the other was 200.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

shielded wiring to and from the pots ? ( at least twisted pair )


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Clarify what you mean by "DIY attenuator". Although anything that can reduce a signal level is, by definition, an attenuator, many guitar people use the word "attenuator" to refer specifically to devices meant to drop the output of an amplifier to much lower, non-lease-breaking-volume. What sort of attenuation are you thinking of?


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I have 2 input jacks wired to a potentiometer. The pot is the volume knob. I want to run it between my pedalboard and the amp. Or it can be run thru the fx loop I believe. Like a master volume before the amp.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

oldjoat said:


> shielded wiring to and from the pots ? ( at least twisted pair )


In the example video i watched, he took an old guitar cable, cut it, pulled 4 wires out and used them. I may try that idea. I may be using speaker wire. If there is a difference between them, that could be it. I am learning this stuff, and trying to use what I have on hand. I do have an old guitar cord extension I can cut up.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

the "twisted pair" of wires simply cancels out the ability to become an antenna ( pick up the 60 hz noise)
use either shielded wires from the jacks to the pots , or at least twist the wires ( about 3 turns per inch min)

in jack =xxxxxxxxxxx=pot(s) =xxxxxxxxx=jack out (xxxx twisted wires)

eg: using black & white wires
blk to jack ground.... solder to pot cover ......to output jack ground
white to center pin of input jack ...... solderto pot leads .... to center pin of output jack

with shielded ... shielding is same as black .... center lead is same as white above


----------



## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)




----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

@reckless toboggan That is what I am attempting to make. My issue with the hum/buzz may be the pot. I have 2 and they are 200 and 250. If you are to use 100 and lower, then I have to find one. I tried the tone pot out of the little white Strat I was given, but it's 250 as well I believe. I may have to take a trip to L&M for a pot. I will keep *ahem* plugging away at this and my goal is to win and keep it near $0 as possible. I could have had these pots worked. Thanks for the vid.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

If I have understood you correctly, what you are aiming for is essentially a little box that operates as a volume pedal, only one that you don't operate with your foot, but something that you can use to provide a fixed volume drop. If it is going between pedalboard and amp, and the feed from the pedalboard is always buffered by _something_, then you can use 50k or less. You don't have to, but you don't need to go above 50k. That's why volume-pedal manufacturers often offer two kinds of volume pedals: those with 250k or greater, and those with 50k or less.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Exactly what I am trying to do. Is it the pot that would be causing the hum/buzz? It's like a wave as I sweep through the pots rotation, the buzz increases and is max loud at midway. I've followed the video to a T and I get that damn buzz.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

did you use a metal or plastic box ?
metal = has actual ground between the 2 jacks thru the "box" (but add a wire between the ground lugs of jacks anyway)... and no need for shielding wires
plastic = needs a wire between the 2 "ground" lugs of the jacks ... and shielding / twisting is needed


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

It's aluminum and plastic. I still ran the extra ground just because I had the wire sitting there. So far, I haven't hard mounted it until I figure the buzzing out. I plan on taking it apart and trying again. If the pots I have should work (200k and 250k) then I've done something wrong somewhere. Is it safe to assume that wire is wire in this case? If I run the extra ground wire, will it matter?


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Too high a value causes uneven frequency response.

The size of the pot required is directly related to the voltage sensitivity of the amp. Amp A may be looking for a 1 volt supply form the source to sound great, AMP X may require 2 volts . 

Both would require a different value pot for what you want to do. Sorry i don't know the math. I would buy a 10k a 20k and a 50k and experiment to see which sounds better. You may find the 3 pots all sound great at different attenuation levels.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Okay. I"ll try and grab some somewhere. Might go to Amazon and grab a few of each item I need. That way if one goes POOF, I have more. 

One 1/4" jack I am using is out of a Hosa single button channel switcher, is it possible it's stereo? The cable that had come with it was not a stereo cable, so I assume it's mono. Attached an image of one very similar.


----------



## Guest (Aug 5, 2019)

I am making one to replace my Dunlop passive volume pedal. I made one last night and the fucking shit jacks I bought from Active Electronics are junk. I am using a 500K pot, same as in my Dunlop.


----------



## Guest (Aug 5, 2019)

I signed up for the StewMac free shipping ($39 CAD) and ordered some Pure Tone jacks @ $5 CAD each.


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Oh, and find an electronics store that sells this stuff. You could buy all 3 pots at your local supply store for the price of one pot from L&M.


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Some heavy reading if you have the time....

Help in choosing a potentiometer as a "Passive preamplifier" - diyAudio


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

knight_yyz said:


> Oh, and find an electronics store that sells this stuff. You could buy all 3 pots at your local supply store for the price of one pot from L&M.


I don't know of any electronics stores here. If I could find a defective pedal, I would get all my bits in one place. But..........I checked Kijiji and found nothing. I'll likely order off Amazon if I can't find anything. I posted in a couple places for jacks, pots and maybe a case and knobs. I hope I get some bites. Would have loved to finish this today and have some fun with it, but it's not looking that way. Dagnabbit !!


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Once you've spent about $20 or $30, you probably could have one of these. Does what you want and so much more (but it is active).


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I really just need the pot. I have everything else, but it's the experience of building something that works is what appeals to me. I did want to look into an EQ to liven up my Quarterhorse, so maybe I'll look for the pedal as well. I do have more power slots available on my board so that isn't an issue. The passive control would be nice since it can be placed anywhere in the line.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Verne said:


> In the example video i watched, he took an old guitar cable, cut it, pulled 4 wires out and used them. I may try that idea. I may be using speaker wire. If there is a difference between them, that could be it. I am learning this stuff, and trying to use what I have on hand. I do have an old guitar cord extension I can cut up.


Guitar cables have only 2 wires (one wrapped around the other - that's what you want; shielding). That's your issue here, not the pot. Using a metal box is even better because that way all the wiring that is otherwise not shielded will be shielded (like if no box the wire from 1 jack sleeve to the other is the ground so the hot wire fronm tip to pot to tip is unshielded and picking up yer cell phone signal, radio etc)

Do not use speaker cable (2 parallel wires vs coax - no shield). Do not take apart a guitar (or any other) cable to use the individual conductors to wire this up. You can only use unshielded wiring inside a shielded metal chassis - guitar signals are noise magnets. You can get a 1490A (mooer size is all you need) for like $5 (I think there's a Sayal location close to you).



knight_yyz said:


> Too high a value causes uneven frequency response.
> 
> The size of the pot required is directly related to the voltage sensitivity of the amp. Amp A may be looking for a 1 volt supply form the source to sound great, AMP X may require 2 volts .
> 
> Both would require a different value pot for what you want to do. Sorry i don't know the math. I would buy a 10k a 20k and a 50k and experiment to see which sounds better. You may find the 3 pots all sound great at different attenuation levels.


Uh, wot? The pots in yer guitar are 250 or 500K, maybe even 1M and the amp likes it just fine. A lower value may load the pedals in front if the last thing isn't buffered (it's not the amp you need to worry about, the rule is lower R into bigger R, and the input impedance of an amp is always at least 1M). Lower values cause treble bleed not higher (yeah yeah Mark, treble bleed anyway when you turn the pot down no matter the value), though maybe not an issue after a few pedals, at least 1 of which is likely to be buffered. You can put a resistor and a small cap across the pot to mitigate that (see treble bleed mod). Even better is to not wire it like a standard guitar volume (variable resistor) but like an LPad or HPad- the resistance remains constant all across the turn of the pot (no treble bleed). This other way you want only 10K Resistance. You can get a 10K prewired H pad stepped attanuator on ebay that would be perfect for this (not a pot, a 10-20 position switch with progressively more series resistors on each consecutive position, but also more resistors parallel shunting to ground to keep the total R constant at each position, vs increasing as you turn with a basic pot ). That would be the most neutral/least reactive passive volume control possible. Also much more reliable than a pot (won't drift because you touched it or get dirty and crackley) and repeatable.

If the issue is noise and interference, I repeat, the problem is NOT the pot value, but lack of shielding.



Verne said:


> I don't know of any electronics stores here. If I could find a defective pedal, I would get all my bits in one place.


There's gotta be somewhere local to get stuff but I'm not from there so dunno. I checked and the closest Sayal location is Cambridge - not that close but might work for you.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

The chassis I plan on using is mostly aluminum with plastic sides. So the wires I am using may be the issue? What I am present using is side by side black/red with them pulled apart and used individually. I hadn't mounted it as I thought I'd check if it worked. I suppose mounting is a very quick process. I'll go play around some more. I have the time today, and I have the will to make my own before I just decide to buy one. I may (or may not) have all the parts. If this chassis will work, I'll continue. Only the 2 sides are plastic. But I was planning on drilling holes and run the jacks across from each other in the sides. That's why I ran the 4th wire as a ground on the jacks.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Well, nothing I did would work, so it's been scrapped for the time being. Eventually I'll revisit this idea and be successful. Thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I was trying to make something like this, but not with the switch in it as it would be on at all times. This one is $33 on Amazon, so in the end it may be cheaper, but less fun and rewarding to buy one.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Here's an idea. Feel free to say "Above my pay grade".

Consider wiring up a box with two different pot values - 50k and 500k - and a DPDT toggle to switch between them, in addition to the stompswitch for engaging the box. This would allow you to select between a pot value optimized for feeding an amp from a buffered output, or sticking the pedal between guitar and pedalboard for a volume preset. I can draw out the circuit for you if you're interested.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I wouldn't worry about pay grade, by knowledge level is far more concerning. I really don't even know how to fully do this yet, let alone know what you just said. HAHAH.


----------



## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

mhammer said:


> Here's an idea. Feel free to say "Above my pay grade".
> 
> Consider wiring up a box with two different pot values - 50k and 500k - and a DPDT toggle to switch between them, in addition to the stompswitch for engaging the box. This would allow you to select between a pot value optimized for feeding an amp from a buffered output, or sticking the pedal between guitar and pedalboard for a volume preset. I can draw out the circuit for you if you're interested.


I would like to see that drawing. Others might, as well.


----------



## Guest (Aug 6, 2019)

Verne said:


> I was trying to make something like this, but not with the switch in it as it would be on at all times. This one is $33 on Amazon, so in the end it may be cheaper, but less fun and rewarding to buy one.



Just get a 250 or 500 pot and some good jacks in an all metal project box.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Tone Chaser said:


> I would like to see that drawing. Others might, as well.


I'll try and whip it up tomorrow morning.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Verne said:


> I have 2 input jacks wired to a potentiometer. The pot is the volume knob. I want to run it between my pedalboard and the amp. Or it can be run thru the fx loop I believe. Like a master volume before the amp.


Oh I have one of those. You can check it out. Downside: gone til next weekend doing the album tour.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

@Player99 That is the video I was going off of first. It's either the pot I have or one of my jacks, but it just did NOT want to work for me. I'll try again when I have a guitar related pot and the 2nd proper jack.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Budda said:


> Oh I have one of those. You can check it out. Downside: gone til next weekend doing the album tour.


Thanks @Budda. I don't see me getting much chance to get into another build attempt until next weekend anyway, so no worries on time frame. If you have that tube, I'll grab that and see what difference it does, or doesn't, make.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Verne said:


> Thanks @Budda. I don't see me getting much chance to get into another build attempt until next weekend anyway, so no worries on time frame. If you have that tube, I'll grab that and see what difference it does, or doesn't, make.


I will source it all when im back.


----------



## Guest (Aug 6, 2019)

Verne said:


> @Player99 That is the video I was going off of first. It's either the pot I have or one of my jacks, but it just did NOT want to work for me. I'll try again when I have a guitar related pot and the 2nd proper jack.


Me neither. Maybe @mhammer will tell us if it is correct or not. I think my crappy jacks were the problem because after I changed the pot and it still didn't work I could get sporadic sound when I wiggled the jack.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

As promised. The parts are drawn from the back, the way you'd see them looking into the enclosure. Which pot goes on which side doesn't matter. Note that the toggle switch handle will "point" opposite to where the contacts are made. So if the handle is pointing to the right in the drawing, its the set of contacts on the left that are being made. I suppose the most intuitive arrangement would be to have the 500k on the left, the 50k on the right, and rotate the toggle a quarter turn counter-clockwise, so that the toggle handle points up or down, instead of left or right. That way, if the handle is pointing "up", it will be indicating the higher-value pot. If you wanted to go absolutely deluxe, you'd use a 3PDT toggle that would connect an LED adjacent to the pot in use....but I think that's overkill.

I drew connections for a 3PDT stompswitch, but did not include wiring for a status LED, since I didn't know if you wanted or needed one; especially since it would require installing an extra jack for power.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

What if all you have is one pot and 2 jacks. Ideally I'd like a permanent on that I can run in my FX loop of my tubes amps. I do have a button from the HOSA channel switcher, just not sure offhand which one of the 2 drawn it is. I was going for something simple and easy to put together. The Norwegian or Swedish guy in the video did a simple build and mounted it in a small cardboard gift box. It worked for him. Assuming he used the one he made. When you show the wires to the doohicky that the cable end touches, which tab is that actually going to? If holding the jack in hand with the doohickey sticking up on the left, is it the lower, or upper tab? I'm not fluent in "electronicnese".


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

depends on whether you have 2 or 3 lugs on the mono jack 

stand the jack on a table with the springy thing (tower) in the air ... springy thing on the right side
the lug opposite (left side) from the springy thing is usually connected TO the springy thing... your tip or signal

the other lug should be the "ground" for the barrel of your jack cord 

if you have 3 lugs , the last one ( farthest from you) is the optional grounding lug that touches the springy thing 
and can be used to short ( mute) the jack when nothing is plugged in , you run another wire from it to ground
people simply connect BOTH the front and back lugs to ground.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Cool. That makes it easier to remember. I really appreciate the time and help. You have no idea how much even some basic simple answers help me right now.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

YAY!!!! I got it working. I don't know if it was a couple wires in the wrong spot, or possibly because I was testing it by plugging straight into it, and not always in the FX loop. Either way, it works. B U T.............it really thins the actual tone out. When I play right into the amp, it sounds nice and warm and rich, when I use the volume pedal and play after adjusting to roughly the same volume, it sounds noticeably thinner. Does not sound the same. Is this the pot itself? It's a 250k pot, but no idea what it was for in the first place. Does this matter? Now that I have my "prototype" working, should I buy a proper volume pot and 2 better quality jacks? Will it make any difference?!?


----------



## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Verne said:


> YAY!!!! I got it working. I don't know if it was a couple wires in the wrong spot, or possibly because I was testing it by plugging straight into it, and not always in the FX loop. Either way, it works. B U T.............it really thins the actual tone out. When I play right into the amp, it sounds nice and warm and rich, when I use the volume pedal and play after adjusting to roughly the same volume, it sounds noticeably thinner. Does not sound the same. Is this the pot itself? It's a 250k pot, but no idea what it was for in the first place. Does this matter? Now that I have my "prototype" working, should I buy a proper volume pot and 2 better quality jacks? Will it make any difference?!?


You essentially just made the same thing as a volume pot in your guitar. It will definitely impact tone much more than a proper attenuator.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I ordered a whole pot kit today. from 5k to 100k with all the hardware and knobs. Also 2 jacks so I can start with new stuff. I can then play with different pots and see which one pleases my ear most. Plus I'll have extra pots for another project some time. One day I'll get a proper pedal case and mount it in there. I have an altered HOSA single button channel switcher right now. Drilled a new hole in the front beside the original and mounted the pot up through the button hole. I am just happy I actually succeeded at this. Even if it is super easy, this type of thing has never been my forte. (music pun unintentional)


----------



## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Verne said:


> I ordered a whole pot kit today. from 5k to 100k with all the hardware and knobs. Also 2 jacks so I can start with new stuff. I can then play with different pots and see which one pleases my ear most. Plus I'll have extra pots for another project some time. One day I'll get a proper pedal case and mount it in there. I have an altered HOSA single button channel switcher right now. Drilled a new hole in the front beside the original and mounted the pot up through the button hole. I am just happy I actually succeeded at this. Even if it is super easy, this type of thing has never been my forte. (music pun unintentional)


Great place to start. Next up wire a guitar!


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

That'll be soon. I have that little 3/4 size Strat copy I was given. I did pull the tone pot and the input jack for my first attempt at my FX loop volume pedal. I will have to rebuild it, and honestly, if I kill it, at least I tried. It'll hang on the wall because it's also just so darned cute.


----------



## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Verne said:


> That'll be soon. I have that little 3/4 size Strat copy I was given. I did pull the tone pot and the input jack for my first attempt at my FX loop volume pedal. I will have to rebuild it, and honestly, if I kill it, at least I tried. It'll hang on the wall because it's also just so darned cute.


There are tons of wiring guides which make it easier.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

RBlakeney said:


> Great place to start. Next up wire a guitar!


cut the RED , no the BLUE , no the GREEN wire ... tick tick tick .
as the pot is turned , the signal is shunted to ground ... less signal = thinner sound 
see Mark about what caps/parts may help with retaining most of the bass/midrange


----------



## Guest (Aug 11, 2019)

I use mine after all my pedals so the buffering means no noticeable tone suck. I think.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Player99 said:


> I use mine after all my pedals so the buffering means no noticeable tone suck. I think.


 Once I placed mine anywhere in line I got the loud buzzing. The only way I don’t get the buzzing is if I run it through my FX loop. Is there something I am missing?


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I played around with placement last night and found that if I placed it at the beginning of my board I would get a hissing sound and the volume of the guitar was fairly low no matter where I dialed the volume at.............as it got closer to the end of my board the hiss turned into the buzzing. It only sounds clear when through my FX loop. Would a 2nd ground wire inside the box itself cause the sounds? I had the wire handy and wasn't sure at first where I'd mount the setup, so I wired in the ground. It is now mounted so everything touches the aluminum in the case, not the plastic sides. I also made sure no wires were touching any contacts of the other jack or pot. I'm the farthest thing from knowledgeable about this stuff, so you guys are my teachers.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Could you please post a few close up pics of all of the inside of the case. Thanks.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Are you sure you want to see the not anywhere near pretty soldering? It's an old iron and old solder. I will take a few pictures and post them.


----------



## Guest (Aug 11, 2019)

Verne said:


> It's an old iron and old solder.


That may be your problem too.
Remove old solder. Clean surfaces and use fresh solder.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Verne said:


> Are you sure you want to see the not anywhere near pretty soldering?


I can handle it.



Verne said:


> old solder



Your "old solder" is intended for electronics and not for plumbing...correct?



Verne said:


> I will take a few pictures and post them.


Thanks.


----------



## Guest (Aug 11, 2019)

Verne said:


> That'll be soon. I have that little 3/4 size Strat copy I was given. I did pull the tone pot and the input jack for my first attempt at my FX loop volume pedal. I will have to rebuild it, and honestly, if I kill it, at least I tried. It'll hang on the wall because it's also just so darned cute.


If you ever consider getting rid of it, let me know.
I'd like one for mandolin project.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Fixing this one is not top priority as I have new stuff coming soon. But, I'd like to know if it's me or just the parts I have that are part of my issue. I will post pics in a few minutes.


----------



## Guest (Aug 11, 2019)

Verne said:


> Fixing this one is not top priority as I have new stuff coming soon. But, I'd like to know if it's me or just the parts I have that are part of my issue. I will post pics in a few minutes.


You said earlier you used the 3 minute video as your guide. Are you sure you didn't reverse the wiring on the pot?

Could you have used too much heat and over cooked the pot?

Are the jacks cheapies or quality?


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)




----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Player99 said:


> You said earlier you used the 3 minute video as your guide. Are you sure you didn't reverse the wiring on the pot?
> 
> Could you have used too much heat and over cooked the pot?
> 
> Are the jacks cheapies or quality?


I'm sure the jacks are crap. The one is a plastic one that was the original in the Hosa pedal. The other is from that little Strat. I have ordered a large kit with new pots and a couple WD parts jacks for the next version. All clean, all new, all more than likely better quality and more suited to the job.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

greco said:


> Your "old solder" is intended for electronics and not for plumbing...correct?


That I have no idea. I've used it in the past for R/C cars and have had it many years. It contains lead and rosin. It's also made in Brantford. Nowhere does it say any specific application on it. It works as solder should and is easily 25-30yrs old.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I also used a much longer video where a guy goes further into explaining it and uses a metal case for his. He even says if the case is metal the extra wire isn't necessary, but good practice, so I assume the extra ground is not causing the issue.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Do these diagrams help?

Your impressive Allen-Bradley* pot appears to be only 250 ohms (i.e., not all that many ohms of resistance in electronics) compared to 250K ohms (250,000 ohms) used in a typical guitar circuit. 
*My father worked for them for over 30 years.










In this diagram, the black wire to the "pickup" would go to ground/sleeve on the input jack and the red wire ("hot"/signal) would go to the "tip" of the jack


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Verne said:


> That I have no idea. I've used it in the past for R/C cars and have had it many years. It contains lead and rosin. It's also made in Brantford. Nowhere does it say any specific application on it. It works as solder should and is easily 25-30yrs old.


It is probably fine...especially if you used it in R/C cars. I was actually joking with you a bit. However, there are specific types of solder made for electronics and for plumbing purposes.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

So this pot may be the bottom of all my particular little issues? I have this coming soon, so I'll start with a 50K when it shows.


----------



## Guest (Aug 11, 2019)

My Ernie Ball volume pedal has a 500K pot.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Verne said:


> I also used a much longer video where a guy goes further into explaining it and uses a metal case for his. He even says if the case is metal the extra wire isn't necessary, but good practice, so I assume the extra ground is not causing the issue.


Having too many routes to ground can be a problem. It is complicated to explain.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Maybe I'll desolder the 2nd ground and see what happens. It works at least, so it's a starting point if the ground doesn't "fix" anything.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

You have the red and yellow ("hot") signal wires soldered to the same pot terminal. check the diagrams I posted above.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

So one of them should be wired to the other jack, not the pot? If I read the diagram correctly.

The red wire at the pot should go to the yellow wire on the jack instead? Correct me if I'm reading this wrong please.

What may be easy for some, is confusing for me.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

pot should say 250K , not 250 Ohm ... way too low in value
move center pot black wire to/ with the other black 
then move either the yellow or red to the center pin of the pot


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Verne said:


> I'm sure the jacks are crap. The one is a plastic one that was the original in the Hosa pedal. The other is from that little Strat. I have ordered a large kit with new pots and a couple WD parts jacks for the next version. All clean, all new, all more than likely better quality and more suited to the job.


The parts might actually be fine enough to make a basic, working circuit. 
Do you have a meter to measure the ohms of the pot?
Do you know how to check for continuity in a circuit?


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I have a meter somewhere, but never use it, so don't recall. I'd not know how to read it anyway. I am an infant in the learning process right now.

I'll try what @oldjoat says. I've got time today. If it can fix my inline on my board issue, that'd be awesome. I didn't notice as big a tonal change as it is in the FX loop.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Verne said:


> So one of them should be wired to the other jack, not the pot? If I read the diagram correctly.
> 
> The red wire at the pot should go to the yellow wire on the jack instead? Correct me if I'm reading this wrong please.
> 
> What may be easy for some, is confusing for me.


Go back to this diagram and make your circuit exactly 
the same as shown.
Black wires are ground and green wires are "hot"/+ve signal...


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Verne said:


> I have a meter somewhere, but never use it, so don't recall. I'd not know how to read it anyway. I am an infant in the learning process right now.
> 
> I'll try what @oldjoat says. I've got time today. If it can fix my inline on my board issue, that'd be awesome. I didn't notice as big a tonal change as it is in the FX loop.


If you are going to do this kind of circuit building and work on guitar circuits, a digital multimeter is virtually essential.

Good Luck! Please let us know how everything progresses.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Is that diagram looking at the bottom of the pot?


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Verne said:


> Is that diagram looking at the bottom of the pot?


Yes


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

oldjoat said:


> pot should say 250K , not 250 Ohm ... way too low in value


I only have 2 pots available to me right now. This is checking to see if I can do this, and how it works. I have more pots on the way and a couple new jacks for my finished version.


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

The most common pot values in guitars are 500K (generally with humbuckers) and 250K (generally with single coils). Lots of them in pedal building too, and didn't I read you attenuator called for 250K? That box of pots you have, somewhat usefull for pedal building but odds are the 100K would be all used up before you used any of the others.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

It's a start for me. I read the pot in my build as 250k, that was my error. It's not. I didn't know which ones to get, so went with this kit knowing that it is at least useful, as to what I already have. If I do get into building more down the road, I'll get higher value pots. I just need to learn the basic wiring, and I'm not doing that so well at this point.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

every one starts some where 
and ya never learn if ya don't start 

soon you'll be able to add JOAT to your resume too. (Jack Of All Trades)


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Verne said:


> I just need to learn the basic wiring, and I'm not doing that so well at this point.


Don't punish yourself!

The more soldering and building of circuits you do, the better you will get and the easier it will be. Captain Obvious at your service...Sorry...LOL

There are many skilled and experienced forum members here to help you.

As mentioned, you have to start somewhere to learn.

The first time I used a signal generator to listen to various frequencies through a guitar amp, my wife thought something blew up in the basement.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd it sounds like a HRD with this pedal at the end of the board, and no buzz, hum, hiss, or coffee waiting for me in the morning. Awesome @greco. That diagram did the trick. The only thing, and not really a deal breaker, is my drive channel now sounds like a treble enhanced very slightly unclean channel. The drive on this amp isn't the best to me anyway, but I still have to tweak the volume settings and such. I may just use it exclusively on the HRD, as it REALLY quiets down the TM36.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Maybe it is/isn't related to this control specifically, but why does the sound thin out when using this through the FX loop? Is it the pot in this circumstance? I will put a 100K in when my order shows up, but if it isn't overly technical, can this be explained to a layman??


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

think of it as a waterfall / dam 
with the pot in one direction ( lowered gates on the dam ) all the water in the river is flowing thru the unit and downstream
with it all the other way ( dam closed ) only a little water flows thru (and the sound is a lot weaker)

the pot in this case is shorting out the signal to ground ... from completely shorted ( no sound) to hardly shorted (almost full sound)


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Perfect, thanks. I'll stick to staying on the board then. It's not hard to unplug from this control and plug into the last pedal in line.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

On to my next question. Before I go an blow something up......can I put this volume control unit between the speaker and the amp using pedal patch cables? Or would my beloved HRD go BOOOOM with an amazingly sad smoke show?!?


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Verne said:


> Before I go an blow something up......can I put this volume control unit between the speaker and the amp using pedal patch cables?


No!!...Don't do it!! 

Patch cables are not suitable. You need speaker cable.

Out of curiosity...Why would you want to to have a volume control between the amp and the speaker. 

In addition, that pot is like only suitable for very low power.


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

Verne said:


> On to my next question. Before I go an blow something up......can I put this volume control unit between the speaker and the amp using pedal patch cables? Or would my beloved HRD go BOOOOM with an amazingly sad smoke show?!?


Yeah, don't do it. Boom.

Attenuators that do essentially the same thing also put a load (in theory same as your speaker, ie. 4 or 8 or 16 ohms) on the amp head. Your little volume pot does not.

And, as Dave mentions ^^, it's a different cable. Speaker and instrument cables are not the same.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

There actually ARE pots (labelled as "rheostats") which can handle a couple of watts. They are used to adjust the volume of intercoms, muzak systems, and similar types of installation where 50 watts may be distributed across 50 speakers, and transformer-isolated from each other. They are NOT designed to handle a direct feed from a guitar amp.

I think I mentioned near the outset of this thread that, while pots do attenuate, when guitarists talk about "attenuators", they are generally referring to something that can handle wattage in the double (and sometimes triple) digits. Stroll into any electronics store and you'll likely see resistors that look like this:








That's what is commonly called a "power resistor". In this case, the unit shown is rated to handle 10W. So-called "power soaks" use even higher-rated resistors like these ones. Not only are they thick enough, but they also come with heat sinks to get rid of whatever heat is produced when you reach the power-handling limits. Big difference between these and the puny resistive strip inside a pot.


----------



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Cool. Thanks for the incredibly quick replies. I'll keep using it the way I have been. My pots and jacks have shipped, so soon enough I can build a better version. I have up to 100K pots in the kit. I believe next will be smaller more suitable solder and a new iron with a pointy tip. Replace my 30yr old nub of an iron.


----------

