# Power Supply Question



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I'm new to the pedalboard game.

How many regular 9v pedals can each of these power?









Truetone - CS12 Pure Isolated Power Brick


Truetone - CS12 Pure Isolated Power Brick




www.long-mcquade.com




I think 9?









Voodoo Lab - Pedal Power II Plus


Voodoo Lab - Pedal Power II Plus




www.long-mcquade.com




I think 8?


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The CS12 can supply up to 3 amperes of regulated current at a variety of voltages, simultaneously. The Pedal Power II Plus can provides a bit of one ampere. (I'll note that my long-time buddy, RG Keen used to design power supplies for "big blue" before retiring from there and becoming chief engineer at Truetone. He designed the One-Spot as well as the CS bricks.)

Most power bricks will have multiple 9V/@100ma outputs. If one is powering analog pedals, there is nothing wrong with using one of these outputs to daisy-chain multiple pedals, since many of those analog pedals are likely to draw less than 25ma, and often less than 10ma each. So, theoretically, a power brick with six 100ma outputs could be used to daisy-chain-power 40 pedals, easily...provided they are all analog, and don't draw gobs of current.

The challenge arose with the arrival of digital pedals, in the form of mostly time-based effects. Many of those would exceed, or at least come very close to, the 100ma limit. Which is why many power bricks started including higher-current outputs, in addition to outputs where one could vary the voltage (normally used to exploit the behaviour of fuzzes). So, a single 100ma output would/could be dedicated to this digital pedal, another dedicated to that one, a higher-current output allocated to some bigger digital behemoth, and a bunch of analog pedals daisy-chained off a single 100ma output. The overarching objective is that no single output on the brick draw more than the current it is spec'd for, lest the regulator inside go poof from heat buildup.

The 100ma limit is largely a function of the industry-standard 3-pin regulators. Such regulators tend to come in 100ma and 1A flavours, although that's not the only means and range of voltage regulation and current supply. I made myself a regulated power brick that has six of those 9V/100ma outputs, plus two 1A outputs. The unit takes a 9VAC wallwart, and does the regulation inside.

It's always a good idea to keep a list of the current requirements of everything you have on your board, so that whatever is feeding them can be used safely and efficiently.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

mhammer said:


> The CS12 can supply up to 3 amperes of regulated current at a variety of voltages, simultaneously. The Pedal Power II Plus can provides a bit of one ampere. (I'll note that my long-time buddy, RG Keen used to design power supplies for "big blue" before retiring from there and becoming chief engineer at Truetone. He designed the One-Spot as well as the CS bricks.)
> 
> Most power bricks will have multiple 9V/@100ma outputs. If one is powering analog pedals, there is nothing wrong with using one of these outputs to daisy-chain multiple pedals, since many of those analog pedals are likely to draw less than 25ma, and often less than 10ma each. So, theoretically, a power brick with six 100ma outputs could be used to daisy-chain-power 40 pedals, easily...provided they are all analog, and don't draw gobs of current.
> 
> ...


Without daisy chaining anything, how many normal 9v pedals can these power?


----------



## Dru Edwards (9 mo ago)

Guncho said:


> Without daisy chaining anything, how many normal 9v pedals can these power?


It depends on the pedals. If the total of the daisy chain power supply is 100mA (milliamps) then you need to sum up the mA of each pedal. OD pedals like the Tube Screamer only 8 mA. Some digital pedals can get into the hundreds of mA.

What pedals are you looking to use?


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Dru Edwards said:


> It depends on the pedals. If the total of the daisy chain power supply is 100mA (milliamps) then you need to sum up the mA of each pedal. OD pedals like the Tube Screamer only 8 mA. Some digital pedals can get into the hundreds of mA.
> 
> What pedals are you looking to use?


Sorry I'm confused. I'm under the impression that I will be running separate power lines from the power supply to each pedal. Not daisy chaining anything. Right?

Just normal MXR, Boss type pedals. Nothing fancy.


----------



## markxander (Oct 24, 2009)

I think what mhammer & co are trying to communicate is that users can and often do use daisy chains from power supplies like this -- only for the kinds of pedals that have a low current draw (fuzz, overdrive, tuner, other analog stuff). That frees up more slots for stuff like delay and reverb pedals that can't be successfully daisy chained. There's no reason to only do one PSU output per pedal because most pedals see no benefit from being totally isolated like that. 

The first thing you should do is check the mA draw for each of the pedals you want to use (check the manual, or is usually written on the sticker on the bottom) and see if there are any that need a lot. For instance, my Strymon Deco needs 250 mA and my Volante needs 300mA -- so each of those would need to be on its own outlet than can supply at least that much.


----------



## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

Dru Edwards said:


> It depends on the pedals. If the total of the daisy chain power supply is 100mA (milliamps) then you need to sum up the mA of each pedal.


Keep in mind that this is only true if the pedals are used simultaneously.



Guncho said:


> Sorry I'm confused. I'm under the impression that I will be running separate power lines from the power supply to each pedal. Not daisy chaining anything. Right?
> 
> Just normal MXR, Boss type pedals. Nothing fancy.


You only would want/need to run independent, isolated, power to single pedals to prevent noise and to make sure each gets enough juice. If sufficient power is supplied through the daisy chain and noise is not an issue, then you could daisy-chain multiple pedals all at the same time without a problem. It's super common. In fact I do both. I have isolated power to a few pedals, but I also use daisy-chains to a few others without issue.

I should add that there are pedals that sometimes add lots of noise when daisy-chained with others. It's hard to know for sure without experimenting. It happened with my TC Polytuner 2 Mini even while bypassed.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

isoneedacoffee said:


> Keep in mind that this is only true if the pedals are used simultaneously.
> 
> 
> You only would want/need to run independent, isolated, power to single pedals to prevent noise and to make sure each gets enough juice. If sufficient power is supplied through the daisy chain and noise is not an issue, then you could daisy-chain multiple pedals all at the same time without a problem. It's super common. In fact I do both. I have isolated power to a few pedals, but I also use daisy-chains to a few others without issue.
> ...


Ok good to know about daisy chaining. Let's say I don't daisy chain anything. How many typical standard 9v pedals can each of the two power supplies I listed power?


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Guncho said:


> Ok good to know about daisy chaining. Let's say I don't daisy chain anything. How many typical standard 9v pedals can each of the two power supplies I listed power?


12 and 8


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Guncho said:


> Sorry I'm confused. I'm under the impression that I will be running separate power lines from the power supply to each pedal. Not daisy chaining anything. Right?
> 
> Just normal MXR, Boss type pedals. Nothing fancy.


You can use every output from the brick simultaneously. If you want to use a single cable for each pedal, then you can power as many pedals as you have output jacks on the brick.

You need to think of the brick as being like your wall outlets at home. You certainly don't reastrict yourself to only ONE wall-powered device per outlet. If you plug in an extension cord or power bar into a wall outlet and then plug a bunch of things into that power bar or extension, you ARE daisy-chaining: it just doesn't look like it because the connection doesn't look like a daisy-chain cable.

Just like with a wall outlet, you wouldn't try to operate a winch with a 20A motor from the same outlet as the washer/dryer combination, because the total current draw would be too high and the circuit-breaker would blow. Similarly, or analogously, you could run power from one of those 100ma output power jacks to multiple pedals, as long as the total current draw didn't approach or exceed 100ma. Your home has circuit-breakers to cope with excessive current draw, but power bricks may only have a single master fuse to cope with excessive total current draw (i.e., too many things being powered off all outputs at once). If the current drawn by any of the 100ma outputs makes the regulator inside too hot, the regulator may burn up. Keep in mind, bricks don't have ventilation and fans in them. All heat generated is retained inside the brick, which is why you don't want to try and draw more current than the unit is capable of delivering.

Does that make sense?

Daisy-chaining does NOT require one of those long cables with a dozen plugs hanging off them. I like to make what I call "power distribution boxes" like this one. Think of it like a satellite campus. A cable goes from the brick to one of the jacks on the little box, and that lets you run individual cables from any of the jacks on the box to the pedal of your choice. Indeed, if your pedal-count exceeds what the pedalboard itself can accommodate, you can have an auxilliary board, and power whatever is on that, via a single cable from the brick to one of these little boxes on the secondary board. It can be a lot neater than commercial daisy-chain cables, and can be made to your desired specs. I include an indicator LED and a smoothing capacitor in the box, to be able to monitor whether it's working/powered or not. Nothing really special about the unit; just 6 paralleled jacks.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Mark Brown said:


> 12 and 8


Are you sure? The first two on the Truetone are 18v. I can run out of that into a 9v pedal without frying anything? The last one is AC.


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

So without daisy chaining, you can run the exact number of 9 volt pedals as there are 9 volt outputs. You can't run a DC pedal on AC, nor a 9 volt pedal on 18 volts.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

mhammer said:


> You can use every output from the brick simultaneously. If you want to use a single cable for each pedal, then you can power as many pedals as you have output jacks on the brick.
> 
> You need to think of the brick as being like your wall outlets at home. You certainly don't reastrict yourself to only ONE wall-powered device per outlet. If you plug in an extension cord or power bar into a wall outlet and then plug a bunch of things into that power bar or extension, you ARE daisy-chaining: it just doesn't look like it because the connection doesn't look like a daisy-chain cable.
> 
> ...


I'm daisy chaining right now with a one spot daisy chain thing. I'm trying to not daisy chain anything so that each pedal gets it's own isolated power source which I'm under the impression is the point of getting one of these power supplies. And yes then it would come down to the number of outlets but 2 of the outlets on the truetone are 18v and one is AC. I can't use those to power a 9v dc pedal can I?


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

BlueRocker said:


> So without daisy chaining, you can run the exact number of 9 volt pedals as there are 9 volt outputs. You can't run a DC pedal on AC, nor a 9 volt pedal on 18 volts.


Exactly. So my initial numbers were correct.


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Guncho said:


> Are you sure? The first two on the Truetone are 18v. I can run out of that into a 9v pedal without frying anything? The last one is AC.


The TruTone is switchable are they not.

What I dont know is if they are switchable from 12/18 or 9/18.

I'll go find out.


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Turns out I'm an idiot....

It's 9 normal 9v pedals.


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Those are both great power supplies. I would not hesitate to double up for most analog pedals - you won't max out the power ports. Digital pedals like to be isolated.

I think for the size of the board you're looking at, you could easily go a bit smaller on the power, saving some space and cash.


----------



## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

Guncho said:


> I'm daisy chaining right now with a one spot daisy chain thing. I'm trying to not daisy chain anything so that each pedal gets it's own isolated power source which I'm under the impression is the point of getting one of these power supplies


Are you experiencing excessive noise? Or is the 1-spot underpowered (I would doubt it). If not, there really is no point... Like many things in the guitar world, you may be looking for a solution when you actually don't even have a problem.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

isoneedacoffee said:


> Are you experiencing excessive noise? Or is the 1-spot underpowered (I would doubt it). If not, there really is no point... Like many things in the guitar world, you may be looking for a solution when you actually don't even have a problem.


Everything is working fine. I'm just doing this for fun and if I'm going to build a pedalboard I might as well get the type of power supply people normally use with pedalboards.

One good reason to get one is my current setup has enough plugs for eight pedals and i have eight pedals. One day I might like to get one or two more pedals. Not sure how to increase the amount of plugs the daisy chain has.


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Guncho said:


> Not sure how to increase the amount of plugs the daisy chain has.


Perhaps another daisy chain? If you just need one, you can buy a splitter and stick it on any plug.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

The draw stuff has been explained and generally you don't want to run 18V into something that's expecting 9 but people do that with some pedals and some are 18V to begin with.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

BlueRocker said:


> Perhaps another daisy chain? If you just need one, you can buy a splitter and stick it on any plug.


I certainly could but I want (not need) to buy a bigger power supply where each pedal is getting it's own isolated power.

If I was only doing what I need to do, I could have just left the pedals in a line on the carpet.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Guncho said:


> Not sure how to increase the amount of plugs the daisy chain has.


----------



## markxander (Oct 24, 2009)

Guncho said:


> I certainly could but I want (not need) to buy a bigger power supply where each pedal is getting it's own isolated power.


For... religious reasons or something? I don't know who told you it matters but it just super doesn't. Putting a couple low current pedals on one output is normal, common, and smart. Why waste your money?


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I’m sure that the CS12 will more than meet your needs.


----------



## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

If you're wanting more isolated outputs, then just buy something else.

Walrus Audio Phoenix - 15 outputs should be enough.

Or Friedman Power Grid 10

Or Voodoo Labs Mondo 

Dunlop DC brick has 10 outs for less than those three.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

markxander said:


> For... religious reasons or something? I don't know who told you it matters but it just super doesn't. Putting a couple low current pedals on one output is normal, common, and smart. Why waste your money?


The guy from Vertex told me to.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Grab n Go said:


> If you're wanting more isolated outputs, then just buy something else.
> 
> Walrus Audio Phoenix - 15 outputs should be enough.
> 
> ...


I think the CS12 with it's nine outputs should suffice. If I end up with ten pedals I will daisy chain two of them.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1) *Sharing an outlet*: When I was a kid, if my dad used a power tool, or my mom used the mixmaster or sewing machine, or the fridge compressor went on - anything that had a motor - it would make the radio, stereo, or tv unlistenable, because spikes would travel along the shared power line (remember, the whole house is daisy-chained). As time went on, manufacturers would build in the sort of filtering that could either prevent or reduce the impact of power-line spikes on audio equipment, but also prevent the generation of such spikes that might affect other equipment.

When digital pedals started to emerge, people would try one out at the store, buy it, and bring it home. If they already owned a digital pedal, they would find that the second one would result in noise that was often described as a "hornet's nest". They'd get annoyed and return the pedal, convinced that it was broken, because the one they tried in the store was beautifully quiet.

What they were experiencing is referred to as "heterodyning", and is a sort of audible ring modulator-like effect resulting from the clash of high-frequency spikes on the power line. If the two digital pedals each had their own adaptor, there was no problem. But if they *shared* power from a single source, whatever was travelling on the power line affected them both. Let's say we have two digital pedals each employing a 2mhz clock. You obviously won't hear that, and you certainly would not hear the sum of those clock pulses. But one may be 2,001,000hz and the other 1,999,000hz; their difference being only 2khz. While that represents exquisite precision in the clocks of each pedal (a tolerance of <0.1%, which is prety damn good by manufacturing standards), you WOULD hear that as an annoying whine. And since DSP-based pedals will divide the master clock down to various lower frequencies, the spikes created by the assorted sums and differences would travel along the power lines, just like mom's sewing machine motor spikes, and turn into part of the audio signal.

The same way that manufacturers began adapting power-supplies for appliances to prevent the sort of interference I described, pedal-makers also started including filters and other protections to keep spikes on pedal A's power line from influencing pedal B. The hornet's nest complaint of consumers subsided.

Of course, digital pedals are not the only ones using a clock. All analog time-based effects (delay, chorus, flanger) use a high-frequency clock, and pretty much all modulation pedals (tremolo, phaser, vibrato) use a low-frequency clock. In both instances there can be audible whine from high-frequency clocks or "ticking" from low-frequency ones. And once in a while those sources "leak" to other pedals that share power. But again, over time, manufacturers have taken steps to prevent this.

Using a separate "isolated" power source drastically reduces the odds that such interference will occur, which is why ad copy will often emphasize how "isolated" the outputs of the brick are. But allocating one pedal per output is really only necessary to the extent that the pedals involved either exceed the current draw when combined, or else risk heterodyning in the absence of suitable protection.

2) *9V vs 18V*: The vast majority of op-amp chips are quite comfortable being powered with 18V, as are discrete transistors. CMOS chips (usually starting with CD4xxx) are not very happy with anything above 15V. When a circuit combines something analog with something digital, there is a very good chance that whatever voltage you feed the pedal will be dropped down to 5V by a regulator on the board itself to power the digital component. HOWEVER, not all of the other parts are necessarily spec'd for supply voltages much higher than 9VDC, and the circuit itself may have been designed under the assumption that it would always be powered by 9V, and nothing higher. For example, electrolytic capacitors will have a voltage rating. A 16V rating provides a perfectly adequate margin of safety for the cap IF one is powering with +9V. Ratchet that up to 18C and you've exceeded what the cap is spec'd to be able to handle. Normally, one wants a voltage rating of at least 50% higher than the supply voltage. A 25V rating is not dangerous, but certainly tempting fate if one is powering with 18V. Better is a 35V rating (usually the next higher rating). So, if there are no chips on the board that need to have 15V or less, and all the electros on the board are rated high enough to handle 18V with aplomb, then have at it; you're good to go.

But successfully coping with a higher voltage is separate from being "better" with a higher voltage. Some circuits can benefit from greater clean headroom with a higher supply voltage, or be persuaded to do other "tricks". Other circuits behave not a hair's breadth different. For instance, on a Tube Screamer, the potential "swing" of the signal in the gain stage is controlled/dictated by the diodes in the chip's feedback loop, and kept well below what the chip is able to do with a higher supply voltage. In a Distortion+/DOD250 or Ibanez SD-9, the location of the diodes is different, and what you hear is a combination of the diodes, plus chip-clipping from an op-amp being asked to provide more gain than it can with 9V. Raise the supply voltage from 9 to 18V , and what you begin to har is ONLY the diodes. Whether that's better or worse is a matter of taste. But the point is that bumping the supply voltage up does nothing in one case and something in the other, even though there may be no danger posed to anything by the higher voltage.

And if that wasn't enough, some pedals might *say* they want a higher supply voltage, but actually drop that voltage down, internally. So the enclosure and instructions might say18-24V, but really the circuit board drops it down to 12 or 15V.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Guncho said:


> I think the CS12 with it's nine outputs should suffice. If I end up with ten pedals I will daisy chain two of them.


Eminently sensible. Just make sure it's the right two pedals.


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

If these are your pedals, you have a power output on the Boss TU-2 I'd say six outputs would be sufficient.

Boss TU-2
Keeley Compressor Plus
EHX Soul Food
MXR Microamp
Keeley Dynatrem
MXR Carbon Copy
TC Hall of Fame 2
TC Ditto Looper 

These are cheapish and handy


----------



## JBlaze (12 mo ago)

mhammer said:


> Daisy-chaining does NOT require one of those long cables with a dozen plugs hanging off them. I like to make what I call "power distribution boxes" like this one. Think of it like a satellite campus. A cable goes from the brick to one of the jacks on the little box, and that lets you run individual cables from any of the jacks on the box to the pedal of your choice. Indeed, if your pedal-count exceeds what the pedalboard itself can accommodate, you can have an auxilliary board, and power whatever is on that, via a single cable from the brick to one of these little boxes on the secondary board. It can be a lot neater than commercial daisy-chain cables, and can be made to your desired specs. I include an indicator LED and a smoothing capacitor in the box, to be able to monitor whether it's working/powered or not. Nothing really special about the unit; just 6 paralleled jacks.
> View attachment 426618


Great idea ! What can I do to convince you to make and sell me one of those !!


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Why can't you make one yourself? They're not THAT hard. Makes a great first DIY project.

EDIT: _ That came off sounding a little snarky. It was meant to be encouraging. This IS something that a novice could make for themselves, and it could be a useful over the long term as a loop selector. Even IF you already have a power brick, you could still be able to "expand" that supply and add outputs for your analog pedals. One still needs to make cables to run from the little box to the pedals, but those are also not especially hard to make, and can end up being much tidier than a daisy-chain cable. As well, custom cables can handle things like the power jack being "way over there" on some pedals, much better than daisy-chain cables can._


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Are all of the ‘same class’ power supplies basically the same? IOW, are comparable models from different manufacturers (cioks, voodoo lab, Fender, True Tone etc.) just different cosmetics on the same set of guts?

TG


----------



## Xevyn (Jul 14, 2021)

Just a note about the 1 Spot power supplies...I emailed Truetone support a few weeks back asking if they would be releasing a new power supply similar to the Fender Engine Level room models that supported 500ma for each outlet and they responded with the following which was a pleasant surprise:


*"Because of the technology in the 1 SPOT PRO power supplies, you can get a lot more current (mA) out of each output than is indicated on the enclosure. The 100mA outs can provide at least 400mA and the 500mA outs can provide up to 1A. So, there is a lot of power hiding under the hood of the 1 SPOT PROs. "*

If you get the CS12, it should be more than sufficient.


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

traynor_garnet said:


> Are all of the ‘same class’ power supplies basically the same? IOW, are comparable models from different manufacturers (cioks, voodoo lab, Fender, True Tone etc.) just different cosmetics on the same set of guts?
> 
> TG


Nope. There are quite a few differences.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

"Are" and "Can be" are different as well.

In the world of wallwarts, there is an ocean of difference between something that uses a single diode and capacitor to declare itself "DC", by simply cutting off half of the AC, and a unit that is well-regulated and provides an output that is as ripple-free as a battery.

Similarly, a "regulated" supply can provide outputs that are more than smooth enough for rock and roll, but are not truly isolated from each other, enough to prevent any and all spikes produced by one recipient of that power from bleeding into the power line of a different recipient of that power. In a great many instances, "well-regulated" may be enough to do the job well (i.e., quietly).

As well, there is a distinction between linear power supplies - i.e., big-'n-heavy power transformer - and "switching" supplies (the really light and compact ones). Switching supplies have their own internal clock, which _might _yield power-line spikes that interact with digital pedals, albeit rarely. 

Finally, there is the not-insignificant matter of how different supplies handle excessive current draw. Do they have fuses? Do they have sufficient heat dissipation? As xevyn's note from Truetone notes, are they _spec'd_ lower than what they can truly handle? (i.e., steps taken to make them hardier and more reliable in both normal and slightly abnormal situations).

Insomuch as a lot of the stuff coming out of East Asia IS direct copies of other people's products, there _may_ well be no internal or performance differences, and merely cosmetic ones, for some products. But again, "may well" and "do" are separate things. In general, however, if one does not test the limits of any of these (e.g., pull 95ma steadily from a "100ma" output), they will perform as well as any other, and diffwerences between many will mostly be whether the options provided by any given model/brand meet your needs. For instance, some folks only want/need 9VDC, where others may desire higher voltages, still others want variable lower voltages, still others require positive-ground outputs, "sag", or other features. There's limits to what you can stuff into the size and weight of brick most people would consider usable/useful for a typical board, so not every supply will incorporate every possible variation, but rather pick from a menu and target one particular genre of customer.


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

BlueRocker said:


> Nope. There are quite a few differences.


Can you elaborate?

TG


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

@Xevyn had a good example about how onespot ports are not limited to the current output of their labels. Basically you need to do your research - usually the features the manufacturers promote are their differentiators. Before I bought mine, I downloaded the manual and watched some YouTube videos.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I buy these daisy chain plugs and cut what I need to multiply. My Stymon Timeline needs 300mA @ 9volts.
There is a rule of thumb to go 20% more than it's asking for. So that's 360mA @9volts.
So I took a string of these and cut 5 off. 4 go into 4 separate 100mA taps (Pedal Power 2) and the 5th goes into my Timeline. So it gets 400mA at 9volts.
There are a few simple things about power.
1- Is it AC or DC power coming out of the tap?
2- The voltage -ie 9v; 12v; 18v
3- The mA or Amps ie- 100mA; 300mA. 1000mA = 1Amp
4 The polarity of the plug. Centre positive sleeve negative, or sleeve positive, centre negative.

When ganging up the plugs it's either in series or parallel. One way will add up the mA and keep the volts the same like my Timeline example above.
The other way the mA stay the same but the voltages add up. 
4 plugs add up to 400mA and still stays at 9volts. If I was to reverse the wires it would be 100mA at 36volts.

I'm not sure but I think there might be a way to take an 18volt plug and split it to 2 plugs at 9volts. (?)

Here's the plug I use to increase the mA by just cutting off what I want and it's ready to go:












****DISCLAIMER: I could be wrong about anything I say. I don't think I am, but who ever does?


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

player99 said:


> I buy these daisy chain plugs and cut what I need to multiply. My Stymon Timeline needs 300mA @ 9volts.
> There is a rule of thumb to go 20% more than it's asking for. So that's 360mA @9volts.
> So I took a string of these and cut 5 off. 4 go into 4 separate 100mA taps (Pedal Power 2) and the 5th goes into my Timeline. So it gets 400mA at 9volts.
> There are a few simple things about power.
> ...


It's been a long time since I took electronics in college but if you plug two plugs into two 9v outputs and then plug one plug into your pedal, aren't you running 18v into it? Double what you should be running into it?


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

If you have 2 batteries in your car and call them A and B and hook both of them up with both positives to alternator and both negatives to ground you will get 12V but the amperage of both batteries together.(parallel) But if you hook them up positive of A to negative of B then positive of B to alternator then you are giving the alternator 24V(series)

series vs parallel


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

knight_yyz said:


> Don't ask me to explain it, but you only double the amperage. So two ports on a y at 9v 150mA would put out 9v @ 300mA


Are you sure you can't make 2 9v 150mA into 18v at 150mA? I thought series and parallel wiring switched between them .

There is this plug:









Truetone - Voltage Doubler Cable


Truetone - Voltage Doubler Cable




www.long-mcquade.com


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Guncho said:


> It's been a long time since I took electronics in college but if you plug two plugs into two 9v outputs and then plug one plug into your pedal, aren't you running 18v into it? Double what you should be running into it?


No, the way I do it those plugs add up the mA and the voltage stays the same.

Do you have a multimeter to test power?


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

@player99 that will have a chip in it to double voltage something like an ne555 or a LT1054 i'm sure there are others. Thats what the little black box is hiding. Re read my post I was editing when you posted


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

player99 said:


> No, the way I do it those plugs add up the mA and the voltage stays the same.
> 
> Do you have a multimeter to test power?


I do yeah.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Guncho said:


> I do yeah.


You know how to check the power in the barrel plug before you plug it into your pedal?


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

two 9 volt sources with a common ground is still 9 volts. Unless you add something to the equation like a chip


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

player99 said:


> You know how to check the power in the barrel plug before you plug it into your pedal?


I do not but I dont have any need or desire to.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

knight_yyz said:


> two 9 volt sources with a common ground is still 9 volts. Unless you add something to the equation like a chip


Cool I believe you. Moving on.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Guncho said:


> I do not but I dont have any need or desire to.


Pedals are expensive so if you are tricking out taps and cables you should be able (it's very easy) to check the power.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

player99 said:


> Pedals are expensive so if you are tricking out taps and cables you should be able (it's very easy) to check the power.


I am currently not and do not plan in the future to trick out taps and cables.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Guncho said:


> I am currently not and do not plan in the future to trick out taps and cables.


You say that now, but if you want to power two 35mA 9volt pedals from one 100mA 9volt tap then it's good to know what's going on. Or you can not do it and spend money for another power supply you really don't need...


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

player99 said:


> You say that now, but if you want to power two 35mA 9volt pedals from one 100mA 9volt tap then it's good to know what's going on. Or you can not do it and spend money for another power supply you really don't need...


I would just run a daisy chain cord to both pedals from one tap. 35ma x 2 does not exceed 100ma. I'm currently daisy chaining 8 pedals from one adapter. I know the current draw of each pedal and the max current of the adapter. I plan on buying a large enough power supply that I don't have to trick anything out other than possibly some minor daisy chaining if I run out of outputs.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Guncho said:


> I would just run a daisy chain cord to both pedals from one tap. 35ma x 2 does not exceed 100ma. I'm currently daisy chaining 8 pedals from one adapter. I know the current draw of each pedal and the max current of the adapter. I plan on buying a large enough power supply that I don't have to trick anything out other than possibly some minor daisy chaining if I run out of outputs.


I would still be testing the plugs to be sure, but I'm sure you'll be OK. I don't understand why you wouldn't want to test the currents as it is so easy, but that's your choice and I respect you for standing your ground on not testing the power to your pedals.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

player99 said:


> I would still be testing the plugs to be sure, but I'm sure you'll be OK. I don't understand why you wouldn't want to test the currents as it is so easy, but that's your choice and I respect you for standing your ground on not testing the power to your pedals.


It's just not necessary. If an output says 9v and 100ma then just don't plug it anything they needs more than that. Do you test the current of every outlet in your house before plugging a lamp in?


----------



## AJ6stringsting (Mar 12, 2006)

player99 said:


> Are you sure you can't make 2 9v 150mA into 18v at 150mA? I thought series and parallel wiring switched between them .
> 
> There is this plug:
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks 😊 👍


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

AJ6stringsting said:


> Wow, thanks 😊 👍


Let us know how it works... It may change the mA?


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

knight_yyz said:


> If you have 2 batteries in your car and call them A and B and hook both of them up with both positives to alternator and both negatives to ground you will get 12V but the amperage of both batteries together.(parallel) But if you hook them up positive of A to negative of B then positive of B to alternator then you are giving the alternator 24V(series)
> 
> series vs parallel


Correct. The thing about power bricks is that the outputs are NOT like independent batteries, whose terminals can be connected in parallel OR series. They always share a common ground. That means their current can be summed, but not their voltage. It is not uncommon for power supplies to parallel regulators in order to handle/provide more current. For instance, one might have a need for 2A of current, but the standard 3-pin regulators one can buy cheap are only spec'd for 1A. So the current from the transformer is distributed over three of them. Not unlike the way one might use a quartet of 25W speakers to handle the output of a 60W amplifier.

The current from the power brick is distributed over multiple outputs. So 2A brick might take in 18V and down-regulate it to have eight 100ma outputs @9V, a 12V/500ma output, and a pair of 9V/250ma outputs (some of the current being lost in the regulation itself). Not unlike dividing 50W over some 8", 10", and 12" speakers, with larger speakers being louder.


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

player99 said:


> Let us know how it works... It may change the mA?


Ohm's law says yes. I = V / R I is current. V is voltage R is resistance.


----------



## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

FX Power Source | Anasounds







anasounds.com


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Voodoo Labs Pedal Power 2 Plus (with extra cables)


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Paul Running said:


> FX Power Source | Anasounds
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If the schematic they post IS what they use, then that's exactly what I used in my homebrew power brick. Except where I went for a fixed number of outputs, they cleverly designed a board that could be expanded into as many or as few as you need. Neat!


----------



## AJ6stringsting (Mar 12, 2006)

Guncho said:


> I'm new to the pedalboard game.
> 
> How many regular 9v pedals can each of these power?
> 
> ...












Here's another alternative, right now they are going for cheap.


----------

