# How do I get rid of a rat?



## blueshores_guy (Apr 8, 2007)

My wife is a bird lover. Our back yard has many feeders, and they're stocked all year round.
Yes, we get lots of different birds, but all that spilled seed (primarily sunflower seeds) attracts other critters as well. We have a never-ending supply of chipmunks and squirrels--black, gray, and red. It's not unusual to see five or more black squirrels scavenging under the feeders at any one time.

I digress.

Lately, we've seen a small rat there. About chipmunk size, but fatter. Definitely a rat. When confronted, he runs under the deck, where he probably lives. I should mention that this under-deck area is not accessible without dismantling the thing, something I'm not keen on. So far, he has resisted my efforts to trap him. One night I set out three mouse traps, all loaded with peanut butter. Next morning all three had been tripped, no peanut butter remained, but all three were empty. I have a live trap that I use to relocate chipmunks and squirrels (usually about twenty chipmunks per year and maybe five squirrels). I don't kill them, just move them to different territory. Mr. rat has shown no interest in this trap. He won't go in it.

If the rat dies, it's not going to bother us. My wife is horrified at the thought of having a rat around, so it's up to me to do something about it.

I've resisted spreading rat poison on the ground around the bird feeder poles because I don't want to kill the other visitors. So I'd like to persuade this guy to move on....either to another life, or another yard.
Suggestions?


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

I would try a trap with some kind of food in it to attract him into the cage. I have a field mouse problem at our house and use the typical rat poison in sachet to get rid of them. I put them in the garage attic.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

A plastic 45 gallon drum with the top open and some bait in the bottom. They can get in, but they can't get out. Then you can deal with it in as humane, or inhumane, as you desire.


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2016)

cboutilier said:


> A plastic 45 gallon drum with the top open and some bait in the bottom.
> They can get in, but they can't get out. Then you can deal with it in as humane, or inhumane, as you desire.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

blueshores_guy said:


> My wife is a bird lover. Our back yard has many feeders, and they're stocked all year round.
> Yes, we get lots of different birds, but all that spilled seed (primarily sunflower seeds) attracts other critters as well. We have a never-ending supply of chipmunks and squirrels--black, gray, and red. It's not unusual to see five or more black squirrels scavenging under the feeders at any one time.
> 
> I digress.
> ...



Mouse traps are useless for rats - buy rat traps, load them up, and let them do their thing.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

I use a live trap to catch and relocate chipmunks. A neighbour told me he uses a 5 gallon pail half full of water with bird seed sprinkled all over the surface of the water and something they can walk on to get to the top of the pail. Supposedly, they jump in to get the birdseed and drown. You could only try this if your chipmunks are gone for obvious reasons but it might work for the rat.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Unfortunately you've given them a buffet, so if you don't stop feeding them you'll soon have an army of them to contend with. My uncle had a bunch of feeders in his yard for years without issue. Then the rats came, he tried to deal humanely, then took the inhumane root. Then had to tear his shed down because the rotting rat remains stunk so bad. There were hundreds of them. I would highly recommend nipping it in the but before it gets out of control.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Rats are on the rise in the Niagara Region. Been getting worse the last 10 years or so. Before that it was very rare to see one, especially during the day. Behind our shop there is a kind of wall that was made using those gigantic slabs of rock. It's built into the side of a hill so not a stand alone structure. One day a few years back I stepped out the back door to have a smoke and seen a rat the size of a gofer run past me. I started to study the rocks and the many ledges and tiny caves etc. The entire length of it was alive with rats. I mean literally hundreds of them. I started to look around and the hills and grass surrounding the area was full of them. Since that day there have been probably 30 traps that are professionally maintained by a pest control company. Those traps have been in place ever since and they still come.

We have had some in the backyard from time to time. They love decks, as you have discovered. Since we have dogs I never spread stuff around. But I use pellets and get them under the deck where the dogs can't get to. That gets rid of them fast. There have been several articles written over the past decade of the rat problem in this area. No real solutions.

_Alpine Pest Control covers multiple cities in the Niagara region and has seen an increase in rats in every city, including Niagara-on-the-Lake, St. Catharines, Niagara Falls, Fort Erie and Welland.

“I recently just did a home in Welland and there had to be 20 to 25 rats running around on this guy’s front lawn,” said Thorne. “I’ve never seen that in all the years I’ve been in business. It was pretty unique.”_


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Sell it on eBay or Kijiji


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

Take him on a boat ride and make him sleep with the fishes...


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Befriend it and live together in harmony?!?!

...or shoot it in the face and throw it over the fence!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Godfather of Canadian psychology and neuroscience (and one of my heroes), Donald Hebb, wanted to test out an idea that rats in an "enriched" environment would be brighter, so he brought some home from the lab and gave them limited free run in his home. According to the legend from those who studied with him and taught alongside him, the deal his wife struck with him was that they could scamper around the house, but come bedtime, each and every one had to be accounted for, or he would find himself rat-rich and wife-poor. According to the legend, Hebb developed an uncanny ability to know where and how rats hid (I guess he liked his bed warm). Any grad student that had somehow lost one would consult him, and he would come into the space from whence they escaped, like some psychic, ask the hapless researcher where they were standing when they lost track of the animal, cogitate for a few seconds, and point to exactly where the animal would be hiding.

Though I have, fortunately, not had to contend with any wild ones in my home or property, I've lost the odd pet rat in the house, and had several thousand over my decade in animal research. Smart little buggers. Shame about the tail or they'd be more popular.

Rats are, by nature, "neophobic" - i.e., afraid of the new. So, while all of the suggested techniques for catching them ARE _eventually_ effective, they are made more effective, more quickly, by convincing the animal that the trap or poison is safe, since they are not going to go "Peanut butter! Bonus!" and gorge on it. They are going to timidly approach devices, places, foodstuffs at first, until convinced they are safe. If that first timid reluctant approach spooks, but does not kill or catch them, you're screwed. So, a higher probability of successful capture/trapping/killing will result if the trap/bait set is benign at first. If you're going to use poison, lay out some untainted peanut butter or whatever, and then once you see it's gorging on the stuff,_ then_ lace it with poison. If you start out with the poison and the animal nibbles a bit, and gets mildly ill, they will avoid that stuff thereafter and you'll have to resort to another method.

What works for con men works for catching rats.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

If you see one then you more than likely have more.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

mhammer said:


> Godfather of Canadian psychology and neuroscience (and one of my heroes), Donald Hebb, wanted to test out an idea that rats in an "enriched" environment would be brighter, so he brought some home from the lab and gave them limited free run in his home. According to the legend from those who studied with him and taught alongside him, the deal his wife struck with him was that they could scamper around the house, but come bedtime, each and every one had to be accounted for, or he would find himself rat-rich and wife-poor. According to the legend, Hebb developed an uncanny ability to know where and how rats hid (I guess he liked his bed warm). Any grad student that had somehow lost one would consult him, and he would come into the space from whence they escaped, like some psychic, ask the hapless researcher where they were standing when they lost track of the animal, cogitate for a few seconds, and point to exactly where the animal would be hiding.
> 
> Though I have, fortunately, not had to contend with any wild ones in my home or property, I've lost the odd pet rat in the house, and had several thousand over my decade in animal research. Smart little buggers. Shame about the tail or they'd be more popular.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the story, and the information!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

You're welcome. Hebb was a native maritimer. After he retired from McGill, he took on an emeritus professorship at Dalhousie. I thought you'd like to know that.


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

Their day is coming.....me, I'm a friend of rats. They don't forget.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

So, the prof in the lab next to us at McMaster (Bennett "Geoff" Galef) studied observation learning and social influence in animals, among other things. He snags a wild rat at the Hamilton dump, and brings it to the lab. he sets it up in a room with an overhead TV camera to record everything.

The rat has a nice big sandbox to himself, and painstakingly and meticulously, over the course of several months, he trains the rat to walk up a ramp from the sandbox, up to an aquarium on a nearby table. The aquarium has a ledge around the side, and a little ladder leading from the bottom up to the ledge. Sunk at the bottom of the aquarium is a piece of chocolate bar (Neilsen's Jersey Milk), wrapped in plastic, aluminum foil, and plastic again on top of that, with a lead weight inserted to make sure it stays on the bottom. The intent is to rule out ANY possibility whatsoever that a rat would/could spontaneously notice food in the water and retrieve it. Rats don't get food from the water. They don't eat shiny things, and they couldn't smell the chocolate. So the odds of any untrained rat seeing the shiny thing, just hopping in the water, grabbing the chocolate in its mouth, climbing up the ladder with the wrapped chocolate to unwrap it on the ledge, are slim - the very definition of astronomical.

The guy goes to the dump, catches another rat, and while holding it with a chain mail glove, puts a distinctive marking on its back so that he can tell the trained and untrained one apart on the videotape. Plunks the new rat in the sandbox with the other one, and within 24 hours, by watching the trained one and seeing what it does, the new guy has learned to climb the ramp, dive in the water, bring the chocolate up in his teeth and unwrap his treat.

rats are pretty smart. That's why you have to trick them good to catch them.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

mhammer said:


> So, the prof in the lab next to us at McMaster (Bennett "Geoff" Galef) studied observation learning and social influence in animals, among other things. He snags a wild rat at the Hamilton dump, and brings it to the lab. he sets it up in a room with an overhead TV camera to record everything.
> 
> The rat has a nice big sandbox to himself, and painstakingly and meticulously, over the course of several months, he trains the rat to walk up a ramp from the sandbox, up to an aquarium on a nearby table. The aquarium has a ledge around the side, and a little ladder leading from the bottom up to the ledge. Sunk at the bottom of the aquarium is a piece of chocolate bar (Neilsen's Jersey Milk), wrapped in plastic, aluminum foil, and plastic again on top of that, with a lead weight inserted to make sure it stays on the bottom. The intent is to rule out ANY possibility whatsoever that a rat would/could spontaneously notice food in the water and retrieve it. Rats don't get food from the water. They don't eat shiny things, and they couldn't smell the chocolate. So the odds of any untrained rat seeing the shiny thing, just hopping in the water, grabbing the chocolate in its mouth, climbing up the ladder with the wrapped chocolate to unwrap it on the ledge, are slim - the very definition of astronomical.
> 
> ...


I used the Sniffy software in university a long time ago.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

There must be humane rat traps just like there are mouse traps. I think it should be allowed to live and relocated.
I don't like killing anything, even spiders in my house! 

We have had a few mice over the years and have bought humane traps and then taken them out to an open field where they are free to frolic once again! 

Love me or hate me. I don't care!


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

Feed them ex lax. On the ground so the birds don't get any. 

When your food gives you the shits, you change restaurants. So will the rats.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I bought some Wilsarin at Home Depot and put it in a container away from the feeder on the route the rat was taking. I used a plastic container I cut so the top hung over the opening so the poison would stay dry. After a few days I didn't see him again. I have no problem killing rats. They have their place and their place is not around my home.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Lola said:


> There must be humane rat traps just like there are mouse traps. I think it should be allowed to live and relocated.
> I don't like killing anything, even spiders in my house!
> 
> We have had a few mice over the years and have bought humane traps and then taken them out to an open field where they are free to frolic once again!
> ...


I'm onside. I did carry a mouse whose paw was caught in the trap but was otherwise okay a couple hundred yards to the ravine the other day. But there are times when the havoc created by the wee beasties directs me toward vengeance,

If it is your wish to catch and relocate using a humane trap, however, the same logic applies. You bait, but do not set the trap. Do that for a couple of days so that the animal treats it as safe, and THEN set it when the animal is less reluctant to enter fully.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

I had the same problem. My deck is built into the ground and I kept finding holes dug out in a few spots. I finally saw a pair of rats at the feeder one night. I was under pressure not to harm them, so I read up on natural ways to persuade them to leave....dont laugh....but I pissed down their holes every night for a week. I haven't seen them since.

Seriously

New problem just tonight though...had a small skunk walking around out there. I dont know where it went


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Jamdog said:


> Feed them ex lax. On the ground so the birds don't get any.
> 
> When your food gives you the shits, you change restaurants. So will the rats.


I love this idea! Good one Jamdog. An no animals were killed. Awesome. Lola approved. lol


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Scotty said:


> I had the same problem. My deck is built into the ground and I kept finding holes dug out in a few spots. I finally saw a pair of rats at the feeder one night. I was under pressure not to harm them, so I read up on natural ways to persuade them to leave....dont laugh....but I pissed down their holes every night for a week. I haven't seen them since.
> 
> Seriously
> 
> New problem just tonight though...had a small skunk walking around out there. I dont know where it went


I heard you have to shit on those.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Perhaps so. I'll let someone else try that


adcandour said:


> I heard you have to shit on those.


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## bluebayou (May 25, 2015)

We had mouse problems over the years. Peanut butter works wonders as bait. Warfarin is an anti-coagulant that causes those who ingest it to bleed to death internslly. BTW - medicine today uses it as an anti-clotting substance. 
Gotta go and refresh to pb in the mouse traps.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)




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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

Scotty said:


> I had the same problem. My deck is built into the ground and I kept finding holes dug out in a few spots. I finally saw a pair of rats at the feeder one night. I was under pressure not to harm them, so I read up on natural ways to persuade them to leave....dont laugh....but I pissed down their holes every night for a week. I haven't seen them since.
> 
> Seriously
> 
> New problem just tonight though...had a small skunk walking around out there. I dont know where it went


Alternative is to get fox urine at the hunting store. It's supposed to be stronger. 

I tried that on a groundhog once and it didn't even work. The final solution was to put pool chlorine near the entrance of the hideout.


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## sakana (Oct 14, 2016)

C-4


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

.177 ?

Very accurate with a scope, quiet and good penetration for rats and such if they're not too far away.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Ben? Is that you Ben? Wardo......177 might work on small rats if you're close and very accurate but Pack Rats and the bigger ones just laugh that caliber off. They say there are no rats in Alberta so I don't have to worry about that but when I lived in B.C. it was 22 cal, either pellet or rim-fire. Traps work.....ones that kill them. If they can crawl away they die and rot.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

sakana said:


> C-4


ah yes, the Caddyshack method


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

I like the idea. I need a new deck...gets rid of both in one shot and all I have to do is back up the cement truck and make it into a patio. Neighbors might not like the raining debris though.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

or the constant Kenny Loggins music....


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Just went through this, little [email protected]$%ers were eating my tomatoes and zuchinni.

They follow the same path from their hole to food so tried using rat traps covered with a box with a entry hole cut in. Same deal, pb gone and trap tripped but no rat.

A proper rat trap is sketchy though, it's hard to set and moving it into position once with a hockey stick it tripped and jumped about 4 feet. I jumped about 2 feet.

Poison ftw. I bought a bb gun to help when I saw them by the wood pile, I got 1 small one last year but they dont make strong air guns anymore, best i could get is 500 fps. so even when I do hit them Im still not sure because they run away after. Need more stopping power. I used to have a super strong pellet gun as a kid, cant find a decent one these days. If I didnt live in the city I would get my pal and pick up a .22 for some fun.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Moosehead said:


> Just went through this, little [email protected]$%ers were eating my tomatoes and zuchinni.
> 
> They follow the same path from their hole to food so tried using rat traps covered with a box with a entry hole cut in. Same deal, pb gone and trap tripped but no rat.
> 
> ...


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Moosehead said:


> Just went through this, little [email protected]$%ers were eating my tomatoes and zuchinni.
> 
> They follow the same path from their hole to food so tried using rat traps covered with a box with a entry hole cut in. Same deal, pb gone and trap tripped but no rat.
> 
> ...











This will do it.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeah, I had a BSA .177 which had good range and hit pretty hard but the rats we had round the dump weren't all that big either. That was a nice gun, wish I'd kept it.


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## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

If you have a rat visible in the day time, you have a much bigger rat problem.

We used to feed the birds. Not any more.

The rat started to come to my large pond to eat with the fish when I fed them. It had its' head in the water, over the pond edge, competing with the 20 plus, 2 to 3 foot long Koi in my pond. 

I got several weighted bait boxes, with a wide variety of baits. No more day time sightings.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

You folks familiar with the Alberta rat patrol? Before the province shone its spotlight on a resource that rats weren't particularly interested in (oil), control of pests that could compromise the grain harvest was a big deal. When I was using rats for reearch in Edmonton in the early 80's, every single head coming into the school had to be accounted for. So, unlike McMaster, where somebody with a pet snake could come by and ask if we had any animals he could use to feed his constrictor, there was no such "free trade" at U of A. If a researcher had to terminate an animal during the course of research (e.g., remove their brain or other tissue), the remains had to be passed on to the head veterinarian as part of inventory control. You couldn't just chuck the corpses into a garbage bag and send it out with organic waste like at other schools. And, there was a "Rat Patrol" that combed the provincial borders in response to calls from farmers and other residents.

I don't know if they still have it, but they still care about rat control. Here is their most recent post on rats, recognition, and elimination.
Rat Control in Alberta


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Alberta is the largest rat-free, populated, area in the world.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I guess that means no rat pie, rat pudding or rat tarts in Alberta


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

Ummm. Buy a cat?


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

Try a little music? Second thought... This one might make him stick around.

[video]




I never realized how " Highway Starrish" this gets


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

> I guess that means no rat pie, rat pudding or rat tarts in Alberta


And definitely no ratatouille, or as they called it on Monty Python rat à tué.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

or get all James Cagney on it


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Reminds me of the Blackadder Goes Forth episode where Baldrick offers Blackadder some "Rat-au-van"

Baldrick -Would you like some "rat-au-van" to help you think?
Blackadder-"Rat-au-vin"?
Bladrick- Yeah, it's rat that's been...
Blackadder joins in-...run over by a van.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Lola said:


> We have had a few mice over the years and have bought humane traps and then taken them out to an open field where they are free to frolic once again!


once upon a time a mouse was on a journey. as he came to a large field, he looked into the sky in case there was a hawk. there didn't seem to be one, so he hurriedly crossed the open field. suddenly, out of nowhere, a hawk swooped down and ate the mouse in a single gulp. the mouse, finding himself in the hawk's belly knew he needed to get out before he was digested, so he began to work his way out...the back door. when he poked his head out of the hawk's ass, he saw that they were REALLY high in the air. without thinking he exclaimed "WOW!!!! HOW HIGH UP ARE WE RIGHT NOW?" and the hawk replied that they were at least a mile up. the mouse responded "you wouldn't shit me would ya?"



bluebayou said:


> We had mouse problems over the years. Peanut butter works wonders as bait. Warfarin is an anti-coagulant that causes those who ingest it to bleed to death internslly. BTW - medicine today uses it as an anti-clotting substance.
> Gotta go and refresh to pb in the mouse traps.


warfarin keeps me alive. i always thought it was kinda funny that "cheezyridr" is full of rat poison. hahahahaha


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

leftysg said:


> Ummm. Buy a cat?


Maybe dogs, but I don't think cats would be good for more than mice. Cats roaming free outside cause their own share of problems. (in urban/semi urban areas anyway)


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Mmmm, I dunno. My aunt had a Siamese that would bring home small rabbits. A rat woulda been a appetizer to that vicious little cat. Then there's my friend's manx, which would've probably been able to eat my aunt's Siamese. Best darn barn cat I ever seen.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Scotty said:


> Maybe dogs, but I don't think cats would be good for more than mice. Cats roaming free outside cause their own share of problems. (in urban/semi urban areas anyway)


When I worked on the waterefront in Van the cats there lived on rats among other things. Get one cornered and they would attack you.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Scotty said:


> Maybe dogs, but I don't think cats would be good for more than mice. Cats roaming free outside cause their own share of problems. (in urban/semi urban areas anyway)


I'll start this by saying i don't think we should allow our cats to roam, I don't allow it as a responsible pet owner.

but ....

Rats carry an unbelievable amount of disease. There is a reason cats are given roaming freedom in the UK. As society becomes less tolerant of someone else's cat in their back yard, mostly because all they think of is them killing birds, they completely overlook the control of vermin. There was a piece on the news yesterday about feral cats in NYC helping to control the rat population, like it was a big new discovery  Cat on a ship = no rats and mice, cats in a barn = no rats, mice, voles etc. This is old school no chemical pest control. Unfortunately many people now see cats as the pest, c'est la vie.

New York City deploys feral cats in fight against rats | Toronto Star

Cats, the ultimate weapon in public health - CNN.com

Cats have worked as the world's fuzzy exterminators for at least 10,000 years. That's when wild cats cozied up to the Natufians, the first human farmers who stored grain, which attracted rodents.
Agile and nocturnal, cats need little light to hunt. With rodents most active at night, cats became their perfect nemesis.
Cats have worked as rat catchers in New York bodegas, Disneyland andships during World War II. They've even protected the prime minister at number 10 Downing Street, although Larry the cat is described as a terrible mouser.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I can stand cats but not when they roam the neighbourhood making a mess of flowerbeds or the kids sandbox. Want to get rid of a rat or mouse, set a trap or shoot it. A trap thats gonna kill it not have it chew its appendages off. Poison isn't my fave way of disposing of anything.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Our cats (farm cats) have no problem taking down squirrels, even the large grey ones. So rats should not be a problem.
There are special breeds of dogs for that though (rat terriers etc.), probably a better bet.
Top 10 Dog Breeds Ideal for Catching Rats


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Victor® Electronic Rat Trap 3-Pack Bundle: Read Reviews
This should work too.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

jb welder said:


> Our cats (farm cats) have no problem taking down squirrels, even the large grey ones. So rats should not be a problem.
> There are special breeds of dogs for that though (rat terriers etc.), probably a better bet.
> Top 10 Dog Breeds Ideal for Catching Rats


smaller is better. 
I was visiting my sister in Victoria when her black lab spotted a rat in her house and took off after it. By the time that dog was finished, it looked like a bomb had gone off. All the furniture was upside down, everything that could be knocked over was knocked over.


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

Was the rat in the pantry finding the lab a snack while the action was going down? That deal would work on my old lab!


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

I've seen the dog videos and that would be my preference over poison or traps. Did you see the size of those rats in that video

I think my wife's aunt has a westie. hmmm.....


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

davetcan said:


> I'll start this by saying i don't think we should allow our cats to roam, I don't allow it as a responsible pet owner.
> 
> but ....
> 
> ...


I don't agree in letting any pets roam either. (I especially don't take well to roaming dogs on my property) but I agree with you on the accounts of vermin control. I think the plague in Great Britain was worsened when they thought it was brought on by the stray dogs, when only after they culled them, the rat population expanded and thus did the plague. (??)


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Maybe you could import a few of these spiders from Australia

In Australia: giant spider carrying a mouse is horrifying and impressive


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Scotty said:


> I think the plague in Great Britain was worsened when they thought it was brought on by the stray dogs, when only after they culled them, the rat population expanded and thus did the plague. (??)


I seem to remember something about the it was worsened when they were in the cats-are-the-tool-of-the-devil phase and culled cats as evil which in turn allowed the rat population to increase.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

ZeroGravity said:


> I seem to remember something about the it was worsened when they were in the cats-are-the-tool-of-the-devil phase and culled cats as evil which in turn allowed the rat population to increase.


I recall it being dogs, but maybe you're right. I originally thought cats would be no match for a big ass nasty rat, but it makes sense that they would be way more efficient at hunting the smaller ones than most dogs would be


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Scotty said:


> I recall it being dogs, but maybe you're right. I originally thought cats would be no match for a big ass nasty rat, but it makes sense that they would be way more efficient at hunting the smaller ones than most dogs would be


Cats and the Black Plague

"Remember that the plague was spread by fleas that lived on rats. A viscious cycle kept the disease going. Infected fleas would bite a rat, and the rodent would become infected. Then other fleas biting the infected rat would become infected themselves. Once the host rat died of the plague, any fleas living on it would find themselves homeless and would go in search of a new host. Unfortunately, this often took the form of a human. When the sick infected fleas bit the human in order to feed, the human would become infected. So why didn’t the Europeans just keep plenty of cats around to kill the rats and thereby reduce the incidence of the plague? They had cats at the time. They were originally brought to Europe by the Romans, who had discovered the felines in Egypt. Keeping pet cats as mousers had become popular in Europe by the time of the first plague.

To fully answer that question, you need to understand the belief system of medieval Europe. Based on historical accounts and medieval art, people during this period were prone to many superstitions. The Catholic Church was the most powerful entity in Europe at the time, and the masses were consumed with the presence of evil and eradicating it in any form it might be believed to take. Because of their secretive nature and their ability to survive extraordinary circumstances, the general population came to fear cats as consorts of Satan. The innocent cats began to be killed by the thousands.

*The cats ultimately got their revenge, of course. Since there were few felines left, the rat populations increased unchecked, and the plague grew even more widespread. You’d think that the humans would make the connection by this point, but instead, they made things even worse. They began to associate the plague’s new vigor with the cats and even with dogs. They believed that since both of these animals typically harbored fleas, they must be the cause of the plague. Subsequently, cats were outlawed in many parts of Europe, and huge numbers of cats and dogs were killed. In fact, at one point in the middle ages, there were barely any cats left in England at all.*

Even though cat ownership was illegal in some regions, a few people kept their felines. Other people finally noticed that these cat owners often seemed to be immune to the black plague. Word spread quickly, and more observations of this phenomenon were noticed. This resulted in research, crude as it was during the time.

Eventually, it was decided that the _rats_, not the _cats_, were responsible for spreading the black plague. Then, of course, everyone wanted to own a cat or two. And since cats are prolific breeders, it didn’t take long for the demand to be satisfied. The laws which had been the cats’ death sentence were repealed. In many regions, a new law took its place – one that protected felines instead of banning them and almost causing their extinction in Europe."


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Cats don't run free in my neighborhood. Black bears, ***** and (primarily) coyotes do. Outdoor cats have learned to be stealthy and smart, or an early link to the food chain. I see a few 'free-run' cats that we all get to recognize - and appreciate and respect them for their stealth and cunning. They are keeping vermin at bay and surviving in a wild world. The amount of birds they take is highly exaggerated, IMO. The cull the weak, but there's no shortage of songbirds out here than I can see. I kinda wish the cats were better at crow eradication.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> Cats don't run free in my neighborhood. Black bears, ***** and (primarily) coyotes do. Outdoor cats have learned to be stealthy and smart, or an early link to the food chain. I see a few 'free-run' cats that we all get to recognize - and appreciate and respect them for their stealth and cunning. They are keeping vermin at bay and surviving in a wild world. The amount of birds they take is highly exaggerated, IMO. The cull the weak, but there's no shortage of songbirds out here than I can see. I kinda wish the cats were better at crow eradication.


They could also eat their fill of starlings and it wouldn't bother me in the least. We have 2 bird baths on the property that the starlings routinely shit in to great effect. They seem to do this much more than any of the other species we attract. Nasty, noisy, birds.


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## blueshores_guy (Apr 8, 2007)

Rodent update ..............
Rodney has disappeared. (Yes, we previously saw him so regularly we gave him a name.)
But now he's gone. No sign of him for about 3 weeks. Traps set were always empty the next morning. I filled up his access paths under the deck with dirt and mulch, and he never dug them out again.
We had no idea what happened to him.

Until this morning.
I opened the blind on a window overlooking our back yard, and startled a good-sized bird which had been sitting on the deck railing close to the bird feeders.
Got a pretty good look at it when it flew away, and a quick look in the bird book confirmed it as a male sharp-shinned hawk.
Excellent. I had considered looking for a rent-a-hawk to solve our issue, but there are no such stores in our area.
And this little hawk wouldn't have had any problem absconding with Rodney. It wasn't a very big rat to begin with, and more than once we've seen a sharp-shinned hawk swoop down and carry off a dove more than half its size.
So we're hoping this little adventure is now over.
Thanks for all the suggestions.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

blueshores_guy said:


> Rodent update ..............
> Rodney has disappeared. (Yes, we previously saw him so regularly we gave him a name.)
> But now he's gone. No sign of him for about 3 weeks. Traps set were always empty the next morning. I filled up his access paths under the deck with dirt and mulch, and he never dug them out again.
> We had no idea what happened to him.
> ...


Now how do you get rid of that hawk?


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i had no idea you could rent a hawk! i want to rent one of these:


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I personally think as long as you provide food, rats will be there.
The only time we ever saw rats on our property was 2 homes ago...my wife was keeping birdseed in a Rubbermaid tote in the shed...they had chewed through the plastic and had a smorgasbord. I did see once see a neighborhood cat walking the fenceline with a rat in its mouth...but there aren't very many outdoor cats anymore to control the rodent population.
now we don't stock up on birdseed as much and keep it inside our house.

im not personally into the "playing god" aspect of nurturing some animals while killing others, and I don't see how it could ever work since you cant control what goes on beyond your fenceline. traps/poisons etc aren't very good at selectively killing.


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

Wait four years and vote him out.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

this is what you need right here

Pumpmaster 760 (.177/BB) - Air Rifles - Airguns


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Used to have one like that. Now I can't find anything over 500 fps. Back in the day I think the limit used to be 850, which had _some_ stopping power. Not much but I think it would take care of a rat. 

I bought a little CO2 BB handgun (it was half the price of a rifle) and went all ted nugent on the local infestation. I managed to shoot the rat or rats a couple times but it wouldnt kill a med. or big one. I did get 2 small ones last year. I have a small veggie garden so I know I'm feeding the problem (pun intended) but I think I managed to poison them all this year. I could selectively kill them however by leaving the poison blocks in the shed. They ate their way through the walls and were using it to go from my yard to my neighbours. The anti coagulant makes them look pretty big when they're all dead and bloated. Scared the crap out of my wife when she found one on the front porch lol. 

Just the other day I saw the damn squirrels chewing the lid of my new garbage can. I thought it was the rats doing that! So I sat out front in my lawn chair after taking out the garbage and had a little puff while I waited...... no fail here come the tree rats. I've hit 2 so far and while I've heard squirrel tastes pretty good, I need more power to do the job right.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2016)

Try a slingshot?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Moosehead said:


> Used to have one like that. Now I can't find anything over 500 fps. Back in the day I think the limit used to be 850, which had _some_ stopping power. Not much but I think it would take care of a rat.
> 
> I bought a little CO2 BB handgun (it was half the price of a rifle) and went all ted nugent on the local infestation. I managed to shoot the rat or rats a couple times but it wouldnt kill a med. or big one. I did get 2 small ones last year. I have a small veggie garden so I know I'm feeding the problem (pun intended) but I think I managed to poison them all this year. I could selectively kill them however by leaving the poison blocks in the shed. They ate their way through the walls and were using it to go from my yard to my neighbours. The anti coagulant makes them look pretty big when they're all dead and bloated. Scared the crap out of my wife when she found one on the front porch lol.
> 
> Just the other day I saw the damn squirrels chewing the lid of my new garbage can. I thought it was the rats doing that! So I sat out front in my lawn chair after taking out the garbage and had a little puff while I waited...... no fail here come the tree rats. I've hit 2 so far and while I've heard squirrel tastes pretty good, I need more power to do the job right.


So far I've trapped and moved 9 tree rats. Took them across the river. Depending where you live those crossbow pistols are a lot better than bb and pellet rifles and pistols. Especially with proper hunting tips. If you hit a squirell with bb pistol and it didn't kill it, toss the pistol and get a break action 177 pellet rifle. A head shot at 20' or so will waste a squirell. A bit closer will do a rat but it's got to be a head shot.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

For little critters it's .22 long rifle. 
BB and .177 for indoors or shooting at friends/family.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

we had rats running thru a boathouse a buddy of mine & I rented in BC. big saltwater dock rats

thought of trying to hit them thru the walls with a nail gun, you could hear them climbing around the place

eventually got some rat poison....but then they crawled behind the walls to squeal and die...annoying

but not as annoying as the smell of rotten, dead rat, that took months to go away!!

we should have just got a cat


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

jb welder said:


> For little critters it's .22 long rifle.
> BB and .177 for indoors or shooting at friends/family.


Gotta get the PAL licence for a .22, I've wanted one for a year or 2 now I've just never gone through with the licensing.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jb welder said:


> For little critters it's .22 long rifle.
> BB and .177 for indoors or shooting at friends/family.


Not in the city. CB Shorts are another story but they won't work in a semi-auto.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

capnjim said:


> Wait four years and vote him out.


funny, I was actually thinking along the lines of "get wikileaks to reveal the contents of its secret emails"


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