# Takamine EG523SC -12



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Can anyone tell me what this guitar would be worth used if it was in very good condition? Also, if you have any experience with one, I would appreciate any info you could pass along. Thank you.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

With all the experience here, I thought someone would know something about this model. No?


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

I'm subscribing. I might be selling my takamine 12 string in the near future.


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## brokentoes (Jun 29, 2014)

I just bought a flawless MIJ 2011 Takamine ETN40C-12 with OHSC for $500. So you should maybe be able to get $200-$250 If it has a nice hardcase perhaps.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

brokentoes said:


> I just bought a flawless MIJ 2011 Takamine ETN40C-12 with OHSC for $500. So you should maybe be able to get $200-$250 If it has a nice hardcase perhaps.


Thanks BT. The guy was asking $500.00 and I had no idea what it was worth but he has sold it now. What is the nut width on your ETN?


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## brokentoes (Jun 29, 2014)

47.75 MM or 1.88 Inch for the nut. Measured with a cheap set of digital calipers so it could be off a bit. 

My advice to you would be to wait out a Japanese one. About 6 months or so i picked up a 1990 MIJ Takamine EF385-12 with original chainsaw style case for $300. Probably 7.5 condition wise. Great deals to be had on Takamine's and they are built to last. Great onboard electronics as well. They really shine when you plug them in.


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## fretzel (Aug 8, 2014)

Looking on reverb they are priced used from 399-520. Some with case, others not. One is actually priced at $150 but it's neck is out of position. Those prices are US$.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

There is an ongoing controversy regarding Takamines. Some of their as-advertised solid wood guitars weren't. I say this as an owner. Buyer beware - if that sort of thing is important to you.


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## fretzel (Aug 8, 2014)

I may have to look into that as I have 3 Takamine. Couple of the sub 500 models, a 6 and 12. I also have a nice classical that I bought in 89.


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## brokentoes (Jun 29, 2014)

I see a lot of people advertising Takamine's as all solid wood guitars but at least with the Japanese ones generally the only thing that is solid is the top. Depending on the model it can be all laminated. The higher end models you also get a solid back, but the sides are still laminated. Here's the Takamine Archive which lists the specs of the different models and usually a picture but still probably isn't 100% accurate. I don't have any knowledge regarding the non-japanese made ones though.

Archive


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I don't think I would have a problem with laminate sides and back on any acoustic. I feel it's the top and bracing that make the sound or not.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

The back and sides definitely play a large role in the sound.

If it didn't a laminate back and sides Yamaha would sound as good as an all solid wood Martin.
If it didn't a guitar with mahogany back and sides would sound the same as a guitar with rosewood back and sides.
etc, etc.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Guncho said:


> The back and sides definitely play a large role in the sound.
> 
> If it didn't a laminate back and sides Yamaha would sound as good as an all solid wood Martin.
> If it didn't a guitar with mahogany back and sides would sound the same as a guitar with rosewood back and sides.
> etc, etc.


I don't agree. The back and sides don't move. It's the top that vibrates. There was a famous guitar maker that made a guitar with sides and back out of paper that proved this point. But we can agree to disagree.


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## Guest (Dec 4, 2016)

Steadfastly said:


> There was a famous guitar maker that made a guitar with sided and back out of paper that proved this point.


Antonio de Torres Jurado. 1862.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> I don't agree. The back and sides don't move. It's the top that vibrates. There was a famous guitar maker that made a guitar with sided and back out of paper that proved this point. But we can agree to disagree.


I don't know where you are located but find a store that has in stock a Yamaha FG820 and an FG830.

Noticeable difference in sound and the only difference between these two guitars is one has laminated mahogany back and sides and the other rosewood.

Like 15% more bass in the rosewood.

Steve's in Toronto and Cosmo in Richmond Hill has both.

Comparison Chart:FG830,FG820 - FG/FS Series - Acoustic Guitars - Guitars & Basses - Musical Instruments - Products - Yamaha United States


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## brokentoes (Jun 29, 2014)

Tone is so subjective. You think you hear 15% more bass from the rosewood but it could be any number of factors really. Perhaps the tops were from different trees and one had 15% more bass than the other. We'll never really know why exactly except that a guitar is usually the sum of all the parts, what % each has in the tone equation i have no idea.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I think it's pretty safe to assume that experts who know far more than any of us have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that what the back and sides a guitar are made of have an effect on the sound of the guitar.

Martin, Fender, Gibson, Larivee, etc, etc, etc.

How hard would it be?

You don't think Martin, etc have done scientific comparisons with different materials?

Do you think they're making some guitars with mahogany b&S and others with rosewood just for looks?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Guncho said:


> I don't know where you are located but find a store that has in stock a Yamaha FG820 and an FG830.
> 
> Noticeable difference in sound and the only difference between these two guitars is one has laminated mahogany back and sides and the other rosewood.
> 
> ...


Okay. Thanks, Guncho. I would like to give that a try. I did try an FG820 but haven't tried and FG830.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

If you think what the back and sides of an acoustic guitar are made of doesn't affect the tone of the guitar, you haven't played enough guitars. You've got some work to do. 

And no doubt, every guitar of the same wood will sound slightly different, but the usual woods have their own tonal 'template' if you will. Only on the very cheapest laminated guitars would you NOT hear the difference, IMO.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Here's some total thread derail (kind of) questions - how does one tell if a guitar uses laminate construction? What are the disadvantages or advantages outside of "tonal characteristics" of solid vrs laminate construction?
Does it really matter if one hasn't played enough guitars? What is enough?


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## brokentoes (Jun 29, 2014)

I think everything makes a difference in what makes a guitar sound the way it does, the shape, the woods used, bridge, bracing etc.. I don't claim to know how much each part plays in making it sound the way it does. Some guitars don't sound good to me at all, but i'm almost 50 and to think that i hear perfectly anymore would be just fooling myself. I'd love to see the scientific breakdown on what % of each part of a guitar lends itself to the overall tone. 

You can usually tell if a guitar uses laminated construction by looking at the grain, the top is the easiest because you can follow it into the soundhole edges if it is a solid top. With the back and sides its a little more difficult, you need to look for defining marks on the outside and see if they are also match up on the inside (flashlight required). Generally you can find the specs of a guitar online which makes things easier. If the specs do not iclude the word "solid" before the wood used then it is generally laminated.

Well advantages and disadvantages are kinda still in the eye/ear of the beholder. I'd say the biggest deal would be price, all solid wood guitars tend to be more expensive than their laminated brethren, but then some people are pleased to be able to say I spent $5000 on my Martin etc. and some people are pleased to say i spent $80 on my used Yamaha etc.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

LanceT said:


> Here's some total thread derail (kind of) questions - how does one tell if a guitar uses laminate construction? What are the disadvantages or advantages outside of "tonal characteristics" of solid vrs laminate construction?
> Does it really matter if one hasn't played enough guitars? What is enough?


As @brokentoes said, the top can be evaluated by looking at the sound hole. You should be able to see solid grain marks top surface to underside. Or you may see a wood sandwich. If the back and sides were laminated and they didn't have a hole drilled through them, I couldn't tell. Perhaps matching grain patterns but even that is a bit iffy, I think.

Laminate woods tend to not ring like solid woods - laminates being a composite of woods and glue. But laminates can also be made to sound good and be stronger than solid woods, such as this guitar Signature Series - Jon Gomm . Gomm does a lot of percussive beating/scraping on his guitar top and this is what George came up with for his sig guitar. And George knows a bit about tone! That guitar probably sounds better than 80% of the all solid guitars out there.

Here's a utube of him with Wilma, his poor old O32C - they guitar that spawned the sig model.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

In my experience all solid wood guitars sound more open and balanced eq wise than guitars with laminate back and sides.

Like a lower end bookshelf speaker vs a nice studio monitor.


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## brokentoes (Jun 29, 2014)

I'm kinda interested what models of Takamine guitars you have found to be not to spec High/Deaf ? Very uncool to spec one thing and deliver another.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

My Takamine is a model 340 SD, manufactured in '79, which is not listed on the Takamine site. A bit of an orphan perhaps? I have yet to determine it's construction but ultimately I don't much care.
Every time I play, it reminds me of it's lovely mellow and rich tones.


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## brokentoes (Jun 29, 2014)

There's no letters before the 340 SD at all LanceT ?? No "F" or "EF" ??


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

brokentoes said:


> I'm kinda interested what models of Takamine guitars you have found to be not to spec High/Deaf ? Very uncool to spec one thing and deliver another.


It's nothing I've experienced, just something I've read. On the internet so it must be fact! Either TGP or AGF. Someone wore a hole into a top they understood was solid wood and found out it was laminate (which I always thought you could see by looking at the edges of the soundhole). Feathers flew, people got worked up. 

I have an EF-360SC and I know it's electric (E), made in Japan (F), RW dreadnaught (360), has a solid top (S) and a cutaway (C). The wooden edges of the soundhole make it look solid and I ain't scratching a hole in it to check any further. It works for what I need it for. Love the tuner in the preamp, one of the best acoustic tuners I've used in noisy environments.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

brokentoes said:


> There's no letters before the 340 SD at all LanceT ?? No "F" or "EF" ??


Sorry yes, there is an F. I missed that part so full model no. is an F340-SD.


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## brokentoes (Jun 29, 2014)

Hey LanceT. Well If i'm not mistaken, (and i could be) Taks of that era with a "S" after the model number referred to a solid top. Looking at the archive the F340's used either solid spruce or lam Spruce with lam mahogany. I'm not sure what SD could mean, solid top dread ?? Do the back and sides look to be mahogany ?? Perhaps if it is another wood it could be the letter designation for the deviation from the normal model. Sorry i cant be more help. 

High/Deaf that is very interesting to hear, even when taken with a dose of internet salt. I'll have to look for that thread. I know that to the Japanese people honour still means quite a bit in their lives and work so i would be very interested to see if any of this was true. I looked carefully at mine and see no deception but i'm far from a luthier and like you am not going to be boring any extra holes into any of my guitars.


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