# PayPal, trade amount, and US exchange



## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

Just my thoughts, Or is anyone else getting fed up with the following...
$300 PayPal gift or $309 with regular
$400 cash or $500 trade amount
$571 cash or $400 USD

Are we here to profit, or pass things on to our fellow Canadian guitar players?

Personally I get sick of hearing "PayPal gift". I got burned before, and I'm not about to give up my rights just because someone doesn't have their profit built into the price. Screw you. 

Flame-y post, but I'm curious people. Let me know your thoughts


----------



## stever67 (Jun 30, 2008)

I get the trade value thing but having us bend over because we're Canadian, selling things in Canada, to Canadians, for 'American' prices rots my ass.


----------



## King Loudness (May 3, 2010)

I agree with you about the PayPal gift thing. Either build your PP fees into the price, or don't use it. As a buyer I don't mind paying PP fees if I really want the item; I did this last week with a set of speakers I purchased here on the forum. Trade value is something I've been guilty of doing in the past, but admittedly it's a bit ridiculous to try and tack an arbitrary dollar amount onto a trade for "your time." If I'm selling in the US, I price in USD, but in Canada, I price in CAD at whatever seems to be a fair market price (or at least somewhere in the ballpark) none of this "I could get $xxx more if I sold in the US, so that's my asking price in Canada" nonsense.

W.


----------



## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

Are we guitar lovers/ players, or are we profiteering?


----------



## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm not quite sure about the profiteering but perhaps I'm missing something in the emporiums - I typically buy new so taking a bath is the name of my game. Best to move on if you don't like an ad.

I agree though with your sentiment - there seems to be a trend of "scoring" on deals as opposed to the excitement of acquiring newgear. I liked the old culture " buy used and play for free" - you bought gear to try it out and moved it on to another gear head if it didn't make the cut.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Everyone just wants a) a deal b) the best deal c) lower then you're willing to go.


----------



## hedzup (Apr 23, 2009)

stever67 said:


> I get the trade value thing but having us bend over because we're Canadian, selling things in Canada, to Canadians, for 'American' prices rots my ass.


There is a website many of you have probably heard of, that sells boutique type pedals along with used pedals and he prices this way, and it actually stopped me from dealing with him. He didn't offer me US dollars on my trades, but when our dollar drops, his profit soars!


----------



## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

We all know who's doing it. I won't pay for it. Neither will my buddies. 
Stop the silliness.
We are on this site because we love guitars. The PayPal gift, trade amount, and US dollar amount are grating on my nerves, and I know I'm not alone.
Smarten up.


----------



## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

hedzup said:


> There is a website many of you have probably heard of, that sells boutique type pedals along with used pedals and he prices this way, and it actually stopped me from dealing with him. He didn't offer me US dollars on my trades, but when our dollar drops, his profit soars!


Worry more about the deal you are getting than what profit the seller is making. If the dealer is not market, they will adjust or fail.,Like it r not, the US dollar dictates the pricing and I'm quite confident that being a Canadian dealer is no easy task compared to a US competitor ( Canadians deal with currency fluctuations on purchases (I doubt any of them hedge currencies), lower disposable incomes due to tax rates, and a much smaller group of buyers.)


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

numb41 said:


> Smarten up.


I did, started selling to people in the states.


----------



## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

vadsy said:


> I did, started selling to people in the states.


This is what I'm talking about


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

If I buy used and decide to sell I usually just try to get back what I paid, or as close as possible. I won't change the price for Paypal but I much prefer EMT.


----------



## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

I just wonder how many great Guitars will go to the States because people can get more Money for them.


----------



## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

This is what I'm talking about


----------



## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

There are many that buy items and resell on ebay in USD funds, to either make money or break even...i dont see this as a problem.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Did you just have a bad day? 

The US dollar sets the price, are you planning on changing that on this site? In this country? The market is tanking all around us and things are changing. You realize beyond your front door it's the real world. The OP is something right out of the Kijiji. I've been having better luck on Reverb and TGP, I see nothing wrong with that.


----------



## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

For an "all to see" profit, or a break even?


----------



## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

I just hate to see all of our guitars go to the States because we're hellbent on making a profit.
Why do we play? 
How many people here are here to make a buck, and how many are here to share the joy of playing?


----------



## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

vadsy said:


> Did you just have a bad day?
> 
> The US dollar sets the price, are you planning on changing that on this site? In this country? The market is tanking all around us and things are changing. You realize beyond your front door it's the real world. The OP is something right out of the Kijiji. I've been having better luck on Reverb and TGP, I see nothing wrong with that.


The market is tanking and your escape plan is to sell guitars at a profit to your friends on Guitars Canada.
No, I'm not trying to change the world. Are you?


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

have a snickers, possibly a nap, come back soon


----------



## numb41 (Jul 13, 2009)

vadsy said:


> have a snickers, possibly a nap, come back soon


I have a few words of advice for you too Vadsy.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

It's too bad the Cdn. dollar has lost so much of its value but I like it when I pull up at the gas pumps. It is what it is right now so I think we all have to suck it up and expect that we'll be paying more for some things.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> It is what it is right now so I think we all have to suck it up and expect that we'll be paying more for some things.


Never thought Steadly would be the voice of reason.


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I've seen a few ads that were just looking for trades, but didn't list a trade value of their own item.
That makes it tough to offer a trade, in my view. The inflated trade value idea I've never understood either.

I've done a pile of trades lately, too much gear as it is, so that's the route I try to take.
Selling is not my forte, I tried it once and didn't care for it.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I have trade values when I'm looking for trades, but I'm fair and they make sense. There's also douches on the other side of the deal that make it necessary.

I definitely don't take advantage of people and try to be fair, but I also try to get as much out of deal as possible (unless it's someone I know or have dealt with pleasantly). The reason I try to get as much money as possible is that sometimes I take a good hit as well; I need to balance things out. 

I buy A LOT from the states, so I'm not concerned with selling over there. Almost my entire rack is coming from over there - a blackface intellifex?!? Shiiiiit (try to find that stuff over here!!!). I was also just approached for that Marshall I snagged back from you - it originally came here from California. 

I've got a good conscience, so I continue to do whatever 'feels right'. In other words, I do make money on occasion, but no one gets hurt by it. It's like I'm Jesus or something.


----------



## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

I sell world wide so I price in USD because everyone knows the value of their currency in USD. When I convert to CAN I don't take the full conversion price, I drop it by a few dollars cause that's the kind of guy I am.


----------



## 5732 (Jul 30, 2009)

I don't get the paypal thing. If you want to have the security Paypal offers, you pay. 

I sort of understand the trade vs cash value. When you do a return to a store, are you happier to receive a cash refund or store credit?

I tend to think of my guitars as "lease to own" rather than "purchases". If I lose $10-$30 a month on a guitar when I sell used, I'm ok with that.


----------



## Jimi D (Oct 27, 2008)

none of this makes sense to me... If you want to buy something from someone, you agree to the sellers terms or you go buy somewhere else... how's this hard? I get the impression that there's a suggestion here somewhere that we shouldn't be charging more in CDN$ for our guitars just because our dollar is in the toilet, but that's nuts... if a new PRS CU24 is $4500 now, I'm not pricing my used one at $1500CDN because that's the going rate for it for in US$... things cost what they cost, and everything costs more now; you gotta pay to play...


----------



## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

On a "lighter note". The one good thing about our Dollar Tanking is that it should help put Canadians back to work. It makes our Manufactured goods look a little more appealing. Too bad we don't make anything here anymore...

Anyone been to a Grocery Store lately? Holy Shyte!!


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

It's bad enough we have to pay exchange, but the fact that Paypal charges for the transaction and takes a fee for the exchange rate is just being greedy. It's really annoying to find out the legal exchange rate is 25 but paypal is charging you 28 or whatever the number is they use. It's not the going rate you can look up though.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

PayPal charges a fee for the exchange service?


----------



## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

vadsy said:


> PayPal charges a fee for the exchange service?


Paypal charges a fee for Blowing your Nose...


----------



## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

The best thing about this website is that it is a relatively small community with lots of trust. 
I have used IEMT for almost all my transactions.
I don't mind the 3% Paypal charges.....what burns me is that it takes 2-3 days to transfer into your bank account.
That means on every transfer, Paypal is making interest for 2-3 days while the money is in limbo...they do it on purpose.
Doesn't sound like much, but millions of transactions a day adds up to Billions a year they are skimming.
Also, their exchange rate is about 5% below actual.
If you take 100$ US and transfer it to CDN and then transfer it back to US you will be out 10-15$.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Shameful they charge us for a service they provide. Shame. I expect it for free, is that so wrong?


----------



## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

vadsy said:


> Shameful they charge us for a service they provide. Shame. I expect it for free, is that so wrong?


It's not wrong, it's just fun to Bitch about.


----------



## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

knight_yyz said:


> It's bad enough we have to pay exchange, but the fact that Paypal charges for the transaction and takes a fee for the exchange rate is just being greedy.


That is actually the norm for all financial institutions. It is not unique to PayPal.



> It's really annoying to find out the legal exchange rate is 25 but paypal is charging you 28 or whatever the number is they use. It's not the going rate you can look up though.


At the time I'm writing this, the conversion rate is: $1 CAD = $0.7067 USD (AKA: $1.4151 CAD = $1 USD)

Going by your post, I assume you think that means that if you walked into a bank with $100 CAD, they would pay you $70.67 USD. Financial institutions (banks, credit card companies, etc.) all charge a currency conversion fee that can be anywhere from 2% to 5% (depending on the institution). If you gave any organization $100 CAD to convert, it would wind up being closer to $68 USD. For all intents and purposes, the "going rate" is misleading because it is never what you'll actually pay. You should always assume an extra few percent on top of that.

Your post is a good example of that. If the going rate were $1.25 CAD = $1.00 USD, you'd actually pay closer to $1.30 CAD for $1 USD. If you only paid $1.28, that is actually a pretty favourable rate.

It's a shame this stuff isn't common knowledge because it can be harmful to Canadian small businesses. Let's say the dollar was at even par. The perfect $1 USD = $1 CAD. If you went out and bought something for $100 USD using your Canadian credit card, you'd still see a charge on your account for anywhere from $102 to $105. Either no one knows this, or people just don't seem to talk about it enough. It's a pretty important consideration when price shopping for products of any kind, new or used.



capnjim said:


> If you take 100$ US and transfer it to CDN and then transfer it back to US you will be out 10-15$.


For the reasons stated above, you should never convert your money back and forth like that. You will always lose out, no matter where you did it.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

It's been an eye opening day.


----------



## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

you can thank your gov't for all the ridiculous fees you pay. i'd bet $20 there's not one guy in this thread who thinks 40% brokerage is fair. i'd bet that 90% of canadians would agree with them. 
is your gov't doing anything about it? no. meanwhile, people in america get free shipping when they buy stuff. you pay for their shipping. i hope most of you folks realize that the entire reason brokerage fees are bullshit is because most packages never go through customs at all, but instead go to bonded warehouses owned by the shipping agent. no one ever inspects a thing. but you still get overcharged for work that isn't being done at all.

as for the trade value thing? it's ridiculous to me. if i'm willing to take a trade for a piece of gear, then i'm looking for something specific. i could care less what you value it as. you'll trade or you won't, it's that simple. offer me something not in my target group, and i don't care what it's worth, because i don't want it in the first place. 
how many of you would trade your LP for eleventeen squier strats? it's no different.


----------



## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

cheezyridr said:


> you can thank your gov't for all the ridiculous fees you pay. i'd bet $20 there's not one guy in this thread who thinks 40% brokerage is fair. i'd bet that 90% of canadians would agree with them.
> is your gov't doing anything about it? no. meanwhile, people in america get free shipping when they buy stuff. you pay for their shipping. i hope most of you folks realize that the entire reason brokerage fees are bullshit is because most packages never go through customs at all, but instead go to bonded warehouses owned by the shipping agent. no one ever inspects a thing. but you still get overcharged for work that isn't being done at all.
> 
> as for the trade value thing? it's ridiculous to me. if i'm willing to take a trade for a piece of gear, then i'm looking for something specific. i could care less what you value it as. you'll trade or you won't, it's that simple. offer me something not in my target group, and i don't care what it's worth, because i don't want it in the first place.
> how many of you would trade your LP for eleventeen squier strats? it's no different.





cheezyridr said:


> you can thank your gov't for all the ridiculous fees you pay. i'd bet $20 there's not one guy in this thread who thinks 40% brokerage is fair. i'd bet that 90% of canadians would agree with them.
> is your gov't doing anything about it? no. meanwhile, people in america get free shipping when they buy stuff. you pay for their shipping. i hope most of you folks realize that the entire reason brokerage fees are bullshit is because most packages never go through customs at all, but instead go to bonded warehouses owned by the shipping agent. no one ever inspects a thing. but you still get overcharged for work that isn't being done at all.
> 
> as for the trade value thing? it's ridiculous to me. if i'm willing to take a trade for a piece of gear, then i'm looking for something specific. i could care less what you value it as. you'll trade or you won't, it's that simple. offer me something not in my target group, and i don't care what it's worth, because i don't want it in the first place.
> how many of you would trade your LP for eleventeen squier strats? it's no different.


----------



## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

To add to jbeals post, the conversion rates offered by PayPal are more often than not, better than the rates offered by my banking institution.

My only slight beef with PayPal is they will not allow Canadians to withdraw US$ funds to a $US bank account held in Canada. PayPal forces a conversion to CDN$ when funds are withdrawn.


----------



## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

cheezyridr said:


> you can thank your gov't for all the ridiculous fees you pay. i'd bet $20 there's not one guy in this thread who thinks 40% brokerage is fair. i'd bet that 90% of canadians would agree with them.
> is your gov't doing anything about it? no. meanwhile, people in america get free shipping when they buy stuff. you pay for their shipping. i hope most of you folks realize that the entire reason brokerage fees are bullshit is because most packages never go through customs at all, but instead go to bonded warehouses owned by the shipping agent. no one ever inspects a thing. but you still get overcharged for work that isn't being done at all.
> 
> as for the trade value thing? it's ridiculous to me. if i'm willing to take a trade for a piece of gear, then i'm looking for something specific. i could care less what you value it as. you'll trade or you won't, it's that simple. offer me something not in my target group, and i don't care what it's worth, because i don't want it in the first place.
> how many of you would trade your LP for eleventeen squier strats? it's no different.


"Brokerage Fees" Ship via USPS Canada Post. No Brokerage Fees.


----------



## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

cheezyridr said:


> you can thank your gov't for all the ridiculous fees you pay. i'd bet $20 there's not one guy in this thread who thinks 40% brokerage is fair. i'd bet that 90% of canadians would agree with them.
> is your gov't doing anything about it? no.


It is the carriers that pile on those extra fees. Here's a secret. Hire a brokerage firm to handle your imports and you'll pay less than half of what you were paying through the carriers. Or, learn to do the import paperwork yourself and suddenly, brokerage fees don't exist.



> meanwhile, people in america get free shipping when they buy stuff. you pay for their shipping.


To be fair, the same applies in the reverse when Americans buy from Canadian stores with free shipping in Canada.



> i hope most of you folks realize that the entire reason brokerage fees are bullshit is because most packages never go through customs at all, but instead go to bonded warehouses owned by the shipping agent. no one ever inspects a thing. but you still get overcharged for work that isn't being done at all.


Yup!

When ordering from the US, either do the above or just stick with USPS.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Alex Dann said:


> My only slight beef with PayPal is they will not allow Canadians to withdraw US$ funds to a $US bank account held in Canada. PayPal forces a conversion to CDN$ when funds are withdrawn.


I agree with this being a pain.


----------



## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Alex Dann said:


> My only slight beef with PayPal is they will not allow Canadians to withdraw US$ funds to a $US bank account held in Canada. PayPal forces a conversion to CDN$ when funds are withdrawn.


Now that is a ridiculously greedy move by PayPal!


----------



## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

There was something I got from paypal this week saying Canadian sellers selling to the USA would be charged an additional 3% starting march 1st.

On ebay lately, if I can't find what I need in Canada, I look in Australia. Their dollar is almost the same as ours and with ebay global shipping, it doesn't cost a pile to ship all that distance.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

They must be seeing a lot of business happening because of the low dollar and jumping on to make a little more.


----------



## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

vadsy said:


> They must be seeing a lot of business happening because of the low dollar and jumping on to make a little more.


Of course. Now is the time for Canadians to sell everything they have (that's not bolted down) to an american. They must be seeing the trend and put a policy in place to cash in on it.


----------



## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

PayPal used to use the domestic transaction fees for sales in the US and Caanda (starts at 2.9%+$0.30). Starting April 13, 2016, a new US cross-border fee will be in effect. It is 3.7%+$0.30. I imagine a LOT of retailers will drop PayPal after that move. Either that or it will just drive Canadian prices up yet again. No one wants to pay that kind of transaction fee.

To be fair though, the cross-border fees for US selling to Canada starts at 3.9%+$0.30. We've had it pretty good for a long while now. It was only a matter of time.


----------



## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

musician's friend doesn't ship usps. you get ups or nothing. same with any of the others who sell guitars, and 99% of all other online vendors. while i realize it's the shipping agent that charges the exorbitant fees, your gov't could set a more reasonable limit, and they don't. i would have thought that was obvious enough that i didn't have to explain it. they control other market aspects i don't see why that one gets a free pass, other than lobbyist money spent by ups and fed ex.


----------



## Guest (Jan 10, 2016)

cheezyridr said:


> .. your gov't could set a more reasonable limit, and they don't. i would have thought that was obvious enough
> that i didn't have to explain it. they control other market aspects i don't see why that one gets a free pass ..


Maybe because it's not in the news and not worth a selfie for Justin?


----------



## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

cheezyridr said:


> while i realize it's the shipping agent that charges the exorbitant fees, your gov't could set a more reasonable limit, and they don't.


If you're suggesting that the government step in and enforce a price cap on carrier fees, I really can't join you for that ride. You vote with your wallet. If you don't want to pay those fees, don't buy stuff from the US.

What I would support though, is enforcing that those fees be clearly identified with your shipping quote. Though that would be no small feat for carriers and eCommerce providers to implement.


----------



## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

Hey Canadians. Build something now and sell it. The writing is on the wall. There are a bunch of you who can build pedals, I know it from reading your threads. How about guitars too? Good opportunity for boutique builders to take the next step into manufacturing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

cheezyridr said:


> your gov't could set a more reasonable limit, and they don't. i would have thought that was obvious enough that i didn't have to explain it. they control other market aspects i don't see why that one gets a free pass, other than lobbyist money spent by ups and fed ex.


My take is, these guys (UPS and others) are collecting tax for our government and are not charging them a fee. Unfortunately, this lets them charge whatever they want to collect it and we pay for that service. Many things cross the border tax free.


----------



## NB_Terry (Feb 2, 2006)

Lord-Humongous said:


> Hey Canadians. Build something now and sell it. The writing is on the wall. There are a bunch of you who can build pedals, I know it from reading your threads. How about guitars too? Good opportunity for boutique builders to take the next step into manufacturing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Most of the components for amps and effects pedals come from the US. The enclosures, transformers, switches, etc.. So those costs are all very high with the dollar the way it is. 

I realize the labour component hasn't increased...


----------



## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

NB_Terry said:


> Most of the components for amps and effects pedals come from the US. The enclosures, transformers, switches, etc.


They don't necessarily come from the US, but no matter where you get them you'll pay in US dollars (except Hammond Transformers). That's why most Canadian companies that manufacture gear for international sale sell in USD. Even a lot of the small boutique builders sell in USD.


----------



## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

What is the big deal about someone wanting to maximize his or her profits? If I'm selling something I want to get the most I can get, no matter what.


----------



## georgemg (Jul 17, 2011)

numb41 said:


> Just my thoughts, Or is anyone else getting fed up with the following...
> $300 PayPal gift or $309 with regular
> $400 cash or $500 trade amount
> $571 cash or $400 USD
> ...


Sorry, but none of these bother me all that much.

PayPal Gift: PayPal gift is less expensive. If you want the extra confidence of using regular PayPal, then it's fair enough to pass the charge back to the buyer and not automatically add in the amount to others who are less concerned. It's like paying for insurance - buy it or don't buy it, but the price shouldn't have to be the same if you pass it up. I've bought most items here using IEMT. There is some amount of risk with that admittedly, but most users I've bought had some sort of track record here, which gave me a bit of confidence.

Trade Amounts: I haven't traded anything yet and probably never will. However if I had to take a trade that might not be exactly what I want vs cash that I can put towards something I really want, I would want the cash more.

Cash vs USD Cash: That's pretty much what the conversion costs these days, so I don't see any issue with this.

Are we here to profit: If it's being sold in the classifieds section, then yes most everyone is to be here to profit. Most of the prices I see on items are the similar to what I can find on Kijiji or Craigslist (some are actually higher here), and I've seen a lot of the ads cross-listed at the same price. The value to me in the forum is that I can have used stuff shipped to my house, not pay tax on it and have a bit of confidence in knowing that the person who is selling me the item is not some anonomous person that I know nothing about. That's enough for me.


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

King Loudness said:


> I agree with you about the PayPal gift thing. Either build your PP fees into the price, or don't use it. <snip>


I believe that another reason for using PayPal gift is that it is not so easily reversed.

Using "normal" PayPal, when a buyer receives a guitar that in no way differs from what was offered, but they buyer has remorse for whatever reason, a quick note to PayPal immediately pulls the money back out of the seller's account. The onus falls substantially on the seller to argue the case and prove that the guitar was not misrepresented and the buyer should be happy.

I've read reports online from both sellers and buyers of guitars that transactions have been reversed for very minor dissatisfactions. The seller loses the shipping costs both ways and temporarily loses the guitar he's been trying to sell to an honest and committed buyer. I've also read a few times about suspicious shipping damage to very-well-packed guitars, which hastens the return of the buyer's money and leaves the seller negotiating with the shipping company for compensation for the guitar; often a long process.

Buyers can be just as dishonest as a seller can be, but regular PayPal tips in favor of the buyer. It's my understanding that a buyer using PayPal gift cannot so easily reverse the transaction. As a completely-honest seller, I would not use regular PayPal as it makes it too easy for the buyer to change his mind and stick me with all the costs of that.

P.S. to the OP... got any guitars you can give me, or sell me for real cheap prices? In the spirit of generous sharing that you have been advocating to replace our market system?


----------



## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

I'm not sure why this even became an issue, used gear prices go up. It's a fact of life. You don't see any ads for a slightly used 59 Les Paul for $250, because it was you only $350 new. I'm pretty certain a new LP standard will run you around $4k or more after tax these days. That's just the way she goes unfortunately.


----------



## gretschie (Jan 11, 2012)

pretty tempting not selling to US buyers, with current Canadian markets in the lame state I feel their in..

I've had a 2012 les paul trad for sale for quite some time for $1700 even when same guitars on Kijiji guys asking well over 2K... I'm not sure how people expect to sell those guitars when the markets as poor as it appears to be up here..

I'm honestly not up to speed on selling on US side, ebay or reverb, but what could a person expect to actually recoop when all is said and done, if an item sold for $2oooUSD going through say reverb and paypal..

Certainly a Concerning part is no matter how many photos one can take to best describe say a guitar or any item, have the wrong person buy it, and so much for an straight forward transaction, bc paypal always seems to favour the buyer..

what is the best and safest approach to selling in the US guys ??

I'd certainly rather sell my gear up here, especially when I feel I've priced fairly, but I'm beyond tired of either getting nothing but low ball offers or no serious buyers..

How many pirates on places like Kijiji lowballing/buying on the cheap then turn around and relist then wont budge from their astronomical pricing, trying to justify what they have is superior to the next guys.. makes me puke.. sorry for the rant


----------



## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

I have the feeling a lot of Canadian buyers only want a deal so that they can brag about high astute they are.

And sellers comparing their instrument to today's price of a new one are not fooling anyone-just because a Mexican Fender is $800 today does not mean your 5 year old guitar just shot up in value.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

It doesn't matter what's being sold - seller wants maximum return/profit, and the buyer wants the best deal the seller will provide. I've sold things at a loss because the person helped me out before, and if I sell my PRS damn right I want to sell it at a profit - the exchange rate shows that it's easy to do - and the US buyer will be getting a good deal in comparison to similar products. 

If someone is selling a guitar to fund their wedding or honeymoon, why would they want to sell in Canada when they can possibly make money (hard to do for the average gear guy) selling to the US? It's a no-brainer.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

It's a catch 22 right now. You can certainly sell to the US and make some money, but where are you going to buy?


----------



## Guest (Jan 10, 2016)

If I was comfortable shipping, I'd sell to the US. Best bang for the buck.
What I don't understand is 'trade value' being higher than asking price.
I once replied to an ad with that stipulation asking him why.
Response was that everyone does it. ?!?
So I increased the value of my trade offer accordingly. lol.


----------



## NB_Terry (Feb 2, 2006)

I've sold 3 pedals and an amp on reverb with no problems and I was happy with the price I ended up at.

Guitars are a bit trickier though.


----------



## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

laristotle said:


> If I was comfortable shipping, I'd sell to the US. Best bang for the buck.
> What I don't understand is 'trade value' being higher than asking price.
> I once replied to an ad with that stipulation asking him why.
> Response was that everyone does it. ?!?
> So I increased the value of my trade offer accordingly. lol.


A cash transaction will always trade at a premium/discount (depending which side you are on) compared to a straight trade (ie bartering) and that applies to all types of buy/sell arrangements. Cash is king.


----------



## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> It's a catch 22 right now. You can certainly sell to the US and make some money, but where are you going to buy?


You have to put your money away in a safe place until our dollar recovers. Then bring it out and start buying - after the prices in Canada drop to US levels again. A little self control, no big deal, right?


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> It's a catch 22 right now. You can certainly sell to the US and make some money, but where are you going to buy?


Locally, since you'll have extra $ from your US sales . Also, items within the country are sort of at a 30% discount if the asking price is the same in CDN as USD. That's why I was happy to get $700USD for my les paul (which didn't happen) because it works out to $950CAD (my original price).

If I had bought a PRS at L&M at $1600 and sold it for $1600USD I'd be making money on it, even after taxes.


----------



## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

Lincoln said:


> You have to put your money away in a safe place until our dollar recovers. Then bring it out and start buying - after the prices in Canada drop to US levels again.


I hope you're a patient man.


----------



## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

pattste said:


> I hope you're a patient man.


I'm probably more of a dreamer........

but I'm confident it will come back to par again. We've been through this before. It's not the first time.


----------



## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

Alex Dann said:


> To add to jbeals post, the conversion rates offered by PayPal are more often than not, better than the rates offered by my banking institution.
> 
> My only slight beef with PayPal is they will not allow Canadians to withdraw US$ funds to a $US bank account held in Canada. PayPal forces a conversion to CDN$ when funds are withdrawn.


I've recently lewrned that you can save by converting within yor paypal account before withdrawing to your account. Saves 3%. Hard page to find.


----------



## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

It's under manage currencies or something like that. I used to do that and didn't notice any fees when I didn't but I think I'll start doing that again.


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

The bank charges exchange rate because they are not making any money off you. Paypal is already making a huge chunk of money from the transaction and making a killing off the exchange rate.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

knight_yyz said:


> The bank charges exchange rate because they are not making any money off you. Paypal is already making a huge chunk of money from the transaction and making a killing off the exchange rate.


I think they call that business. It could also be called greed or possibly just success.


----------



## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

Paypal is a business - they provide a service for a profit. I don't see the issue there. How much would an international wire transfer cost? I'd be willing to be it's more than the Paypal fees you'd pay.

I agree with the original post - the whole US/CAD, sale/trade value, etc looks a little out of place here, but a seller has a right to ask what they want to ask - a buyer has the option to ignore, counter-offer, or shop elsewhere. I'll pay Paypal fees if I want something badly enough, or if someone is stuck on Paypal only (or I haven't dealt with them before), I'll use it but work something out for the final amount...I go EMT when possible.

Cheesy - re your comment about the holding facilities and the lack of inspections - I'll guarantee you they inspect anything that looks like it might contain a softball bat. I had so many of those ripped off between the States and Canada that I shut my account on softballfans and starting buying in Canada only in spite of the elevated price.


----------



## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

b-nads said:


> Cheesy - re your comment about the holding facilities and the lack of inspections - I'll guarantee you they inspect anything that looks like it might contain a softball bat. I had so many of those ripped off between the States and Canada that I shut my account on softballfans and starting buying in Canada only in spite of the elevated price.


i'd take that bet and win your money, too. i know what i said is the case, because i looked into it myself. i had a big thing with ups once where they wanted to charge me brokerage twice on the same shipment. i had to do alot of research and make alot of phone calls to get it straightened out. it took almost a year. i learned some things along the way.





gretschie said:


> I'd certainly rather sell my gear up here, especially when I feel I've priced fairly, but I'm beyond tired of either getting nothing but low ball offers or no serious buyers..
> 
> How many pirates on places like Kijiji lowballing/buying on the cheap then turn around and relist then wont budge from their astronomical pricing, trying to justify what they have is superior to the next guys.. makes me puke.. sorry for the rant


this ^^^ one gazillion percent, this.


----------



## b-nads (Apr 9, 2010)

cheezyridr said:


> i'd take that bet and win your money, too. i know what i said is the case, because i looked into it myself. i had a big thing with ups once where they wanted to charge me brokerage twice on the same shipment. i had to do alot of research and make alot of phone calls to get it straightened out. it took almost a year. i learned some things along the way.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I ve honestly never been hit with a brokerage fee...guess I lucked out so far.


----------



## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

post deleted..


----------



## pat6969 (Feb 4, 2013)

I agree with the OP but then lets also say when someone PM's wanting the item they don't make silly offers. Let's also say they don't offer an $800 guitar in trade for my $2400 guitar. Let's also say they don't ask me to take 20 more pics and never be heard from again. I've actually had guys offer me their 1K guitar for my $2200 guitar because I was asking $1000, seriously, thus the trade value stipulation. Unfortunately it's not just the sellers that are to blame for these "silly" ad stipulations.

I always tag my ad with PPG but if the guy offers me full asking price(or very close) and wants to pay regular PP, I'm good with that. I also put the new value of my item as a trade price. If the item you have is close to the same price when new, offer away.

I'm selling a Strat on the forum right now that I will lose $400 on *IF *I get what I'm asking. I'm not in it to make money, but I also hate getting beaten down constantly.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I'm shocked that people here are getting huge low ball offers. You would think that most people here would know the values. But I guess some feel its always worth the chance that they may get something for nothing. Human nature I suppose. My experience has always been pretty good here. I research the values and price the goods to sell. So far have never had an issue. Once you get past the realization that you are likely to lose money, which is 95% of the time on gear, the stuff moves.


----------



## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

Once we hit a 59 cent Canadian dollar, we will see how people think. We had a good 12 to 13 year run on what our currency was worth. Economists say we will be there by the end of the year. For me , the prime time to purchase was when the dollar was par to 15%. We are spoiled with that kind of thinking and the ability to purchase where the grass was greener. It is not so green now, when it comes to buying; selling? Yes, very much so.

What I don't sell now, for my near asking price, will command a higher asking price that really won't be worth more unless it is sold for USD, Stateside. I still prefer to sell here and for a realistic value. I have had some recent, good sales, to a few who get the picture of reality. I will only sell to a real buyer, not a Kijiji flipper.


----------



## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

What defines a "low ball" is very subjective. I had a buyer offer me $800 for a Collings City Limits Deluxe on EBAY (of course, it was a Canadian) which is what I would consider a low ball. In the end, I kept his bid to attract other bidders and that's about all you can do. If dealing is adding stress to a seller (or buyer for that matter), put your stuff on consignment or buy from a dealer. If a buyer wants to flip my gear for a profit, all the power to them. I only need to worry about what I can control and ultimately, my decision to sell a piece of gear at a said price. For the couple of times I tried selling on Craigslist, I am reminded how lucky we are to have emporiums in the forums.

I don't deal a lot on this forum but never had low balls (or what i consider a low ball) and it is very civil. to paraphrase Budda (the forum member), the seller wants $1,000 for his gizmo and the buyer wants to pay $1 and never the twain shall meet. Once that is understood, there are no seller/buyer pricing conflicts (except for the guy that offered me $800 for my collings... : - ) ).


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I'm shocked that people here are getting huge low ball offers. You would think that most people here would know the values. But I guess some feel its always worth the chance that they may get something for nothing. Human nature I suppose. My experience has always been pretty good here. I research the values and price the goods to sell. So far have never had an issue. Once you get past the realization that you are likely to lose money, which is 95% of the time on gear, the stuff moves.


I'm thinking a whole new business opportunity has popped up with the advent of Kijiji. People are buying furniture low and re-selling for a profit. I can't see why it wouldn't work for guitars and amps so a low ball purchase would net the buyer more money on resale. I agree with you that most people on the forum wouldn't be taken in by these low ball offers due to the fact that most people ask for advice on this forum if their buying or selling guitars or amps and usually get pretty good advice regarding their sale or purchase.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

On the topic of trades, what is the proper way to determine what my instrument/amp/pedal is worth? Used market value? Current new value percentage?

If I'm looking to swap one thing for another, can I compare the value of my instrument new to the other parties instrument when it was new? Is that fair?

If upgrades have been done to any of the instruments, should they be added at full cost to the trade value?


----------



## pat6969 (Feb 4, 2013)

vadsy said:


> On the topic of trades, what is the proper way to determine what my instrument/amp/pedal is worth? Used market value? Current new value percentage?
> 
> If I'm looking to swap one thing for another, can I compare the value of my instrument new to the other parties instrument when it was new? Is that fair?
> 
> If upgrades have been done to any of the instruments, should they be added at full cost to the trade value?


I think that's just a good starting point. If your guitar new is $2000 and the other is $1700, that`s a pretty good starting point for a deal. If yours is $2000 and the other is $800 then there`s significant money that should exchange along with the trade, even if you are only asking $800 for yours. Sound reasonable?


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I've never advertised any piece of gear on kijiji and I hope to keep it that way. I've bought a few things and so far have been lucky in that the goods were what they claimed to be and i wasn't kidnapped and killed.

If i can't sell stuff here I'll very occasionally go to TGP, or just keep it


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

vadsy said:


> On the topic of trades, what is the proper way to determine what my instrument/amp/pedal is worth? Used market value? Current new value percentage?
> 
> If I'm looking to swap one thing for another, can I compare the value of my instrument new to the other parties instrument when it was new? Is that fair?
> 
> If upgrades have been done to any of the instruments, should they be added at full cost to the trade value?


Value: usually used market value is a percentage of the new value. 

swapping: value at what it's worth right now. I had a $1500 guitar with $400 in parts, which sold for $900 after being listed for 5 months. Stock versions go for $800 or less all day long, regardless of what people price their 2013 models at.

upgrades: the owner always likes to think it adds value, but as my example shows most buyers don't really give a damn. This is why it's great to keep stock parts when you can. I sold the stock parts to fund the mods. The seller usually gets the hint when his item sits forever.


----------



## King Loudness (May 3, 2010)

I usually go between 50%-75% of new value and base it from there. I only trade up, but I try to be as fair as I can so both parties can walk away happy.

W.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

There is some great stuff here, particularly from those who sell and trade fairly frequently. I have gear that I want to sell, but I don't know where to start or end. I just do not have the type of mind set to "trade up", or sell and haggle a price for stuff. I'm considering kijiji or this site, possibly even reverb, but my sales expertise pretty much, how shall I state this. Oh yeah. Totally sucks balls!! I think my main issue is I don't know if I'm getting low balled or what. But I have leaned to check prices with multiple sources for the same thing to see what the average person is asking. I know this is beyond the scope of what is being discussed, but if anyone can point me to a good thread or site for me to better understand the mindset needed and how to price used gear, it would be appreciated.


----------



## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

You can look up what similar items have sold for on Reverb.com. They usually give you an idea of actual selling prices over a good period of time. You will see how the American prices fluctuate. I am one of the ones who bases my buying and selling decisions on what it would cost me in the U.S.A.

I have sold certain quality and desirable items on Kijiji. I ask high and it tends to keep most the lowballers away. I get emails telling me that I will never get my price. But, I eventually get a real, interested and educated buyer that I drop the price to what I really believe that I can sell it for, offering a choice in guitar case, or whatever it takes to seal the deal. This tends to work for pristine guitars that are really worth what I am asking. To me guitars with dents,dings,scratches, or wrong parts are worth much less ; because they are commonly available and dictate a common price.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Thanks for that Toneshaser. I'll continue checking reverb and other musician related sites. I have found that there are a few guys on kijiji here in Edmonton that are actually in the music biz and sound like they have a good handle on the pricing. It's pretty easy sussing out the good from the bad when purchasing, but selling is a whole different ball of wax.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Dorian2 said:


> There is some great stuff here, particularly from those who sell and trade fairly frequently. I have gear that I want to sell, but I don't know where to start or end. I just do not have the type of mind set to "trade up", or sell and haggle a price for stuff. I'm considering kijiji or this site, possibly even reverb, but my sales expertise pretty much, how shall I state this. Oh yeah. Totally sucks balls!! I think my main issue is I don't know if I'm getting low balled or what. But I have leaned to check prices with multiple sources for the same thing to see what the average person is asking. I know this is beyond the scope of what is being discussed, but if anyone can point me to a good thread or site for me to better understand the mindset needed and how to price used gear, it would be appreciated.


Reverb actually has articles on how to price your gear etc. As for low ball offers, if you're offended, it's a low offer hahaha.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Yeah Bhudda. I've read a couple of those Reverb articles a while ago. I just have to put it into practice I think. As far as getting offended by a low ball, vice versa is true for me. I don't want to offend a potential buyer by asking an unreasonable price. Most of the prices on Ebay offend me greatly. A little research is key here I suppose, not only for myself but for others as well. I guess I should apply my buying habits to my selling habits. That'll probably help.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

That's all it is.


----------



## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

vadsy said:


> On the topic of trades, what is the proper way to determine what my instrument/amp/pedal is worth? Used market value? Current new value percentage?
> 
> If I'm looking to swap one thing for another, can I compare the value of my instrument new to the other parties instrument when it was new? Is that fair?
> 
> If upgrades have been done to any of the instruments, should they be added at full cost to the trade value?


Different brands and models will devalue at a different rate so the new value is to be taken with a grain of salt. Some brands of guitars are notorious for poor resale, Carvin, G&L and PRS (especially if not mint) come to mind. Brands like Gibson and Martin tend to maintain better resale value.

Upgrades are not going to be recouped, generally speaking. A$2000 guitar with $400 aftermarket boutique pickup will sell for roughly the same price (sometimes less) as the same guitar with the original pickups. I think the reason for this is that people expect an instrument to sound a certain way and if they're to go for different tones they'd rather choose their own upgrades.


----------

