# Have to crank a Champ to get this tone ?



## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

For those who own a Fender champ, or a clone, do you have to crank the amp up all the way to get this kind of tone?

http://www.victoriaamp.com/images/sounds/CowboyDustupDirtyTele.mp3?1185465197

That's a clip of Victoria 5112, which is a Champ clone with a 12" speaker. I'm just trying to figure out if that tone is available from a champ at reasonable (in the house) volume?


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I'll say 2 things. 1-you can REALLY hear the bigger speaker in that clip, much more lower mids & bottom end.. 2-with my Vibrochamp, which has been modified to a 2x8, that tone or a reasonable semblance thereof is probably at 7-8 on the dial, when cranked to 10 I have more crunch in it even with single coils and much MUCH more with humbuckers. I would suspect that it's highly speaker dependant, I have 1 old alnico and 1 old ceramic in it. It'll drown out a fairly cranked TV at that volume, but it's certainly not uncomfortable sound pressure (depends what you're used to, I suppose).


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

yes you have to crank it high! Like keto said, around 7-8, this is not for home use. But thid little monster take clean boost very well!


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## mugtastic (May 25, 2010)

yeah champs are WAY too loud for home use if volume is a problem at all - they are good for recording because you can crank them up and not have to deal with the huge volume of an even louder cranked tube amp.

i have a swart 6v6 and the night light attenuator. it can tame the decibels just a bit or right down to quiet. my favorite tone right now is the swart at about 8, night light at it's quietist with my tele. with the speaker close right at ear level it sounds great and wouldn't bother someone sleeping in the next room.

you can use the swart box on other amps *up to 30w.

*22w if you want to use the filament compression circuit.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Ok, 

1. That's definitely a tweed circuit sound. They get dirtier with less volume
2. If you get anything Blackface or later (including the SF) they will be cleaner - even at high volume. The original 5F1 circuit is known for getting dirty quick.
3. What is this, the amp page for babies? "Wah! My 5W Champ is too loud to use at home!" If a CHAMP is too loud you should either buy a POD and play through headphones or just throw out your electrics and buy an acoustic guitar already.

You have to turn up ANY tube amp to get that sound.


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Hey hey, your are definitly not living in a appartment block! 
I have 8 neighbourgs to take in considération. Two of them are working during night so I have to be gentle with them, they nurse and doctor after all!  If I want a good service when I get in troubles at the hospital!


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## mugtastic (May 25, 2010)

foolish. anyone who says a cranked champ is quiet doesn't have one. 

if you played a marshall stack at the same volume as a dimed champ in a guitar store for more than 10 sec. they'd ask you to turn it down. but you probably know that already.

a tweed with an attenuator has given me the tone and flexibility i've always wanted. love it.



Powdered Toast Man said:


> Ok,
> 
> 1. That's definitely a tweed circuit sound. They get dirtier with less volume
> 2. If you get anything Blackface or later (including the SF) they will be cleaner - even at high volume. The original 5F1 circuit is known for getting dirty quick.
> ...


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

mugtastic said:


> foolish. anyone who says a cranked champ is quiet doesn't have one.....


I had forgotten about this, but I had a guy come over to jam with his DSL or TSL 60 1x12, I played the VibroChamp and totally kept up...he didn't have it dimed but had his Master at 6 or 7 with plenty of gain. My VC would be a touch louder than average due to 2 speakers, but not *that* much. I did just play rhythm though, there wouldn't have been a hope to pop out of the mix on a lead in that scenario.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

my slightly modified sf champ will come close to that sound- but like keto says, you really hear the bigger speaker in that clip.
also, to do it, it needs to be cranked. i have a little wooden footstool i sit the amp on, with carpet underneath to decouple the amp from the floor- that helps reduce some "outside my apartment volume".
also i have my pimp jacket. a big brown suede coat with thick sheepskin lining- you know the kind, leftover from the seventies. weighs like 20 pounds lol. if i put that over my amp, i can crank it at any hour pretty much.



> 3. What is this, the amp page for babies? "Wah! My 5W Champ is too loud to use at home!" If a CHAMP is too loud you should either buy a POD and play through headphones or just throw out your electrics and buy an acoustic guitar already.


you are correct. proper guitar players live in fairy tale castles where they can just play as loud as they want whenever they want. everyone knows that. 
people in apartments, or folks with families under the same roof dont deserve a cranked 5 watt amp. 
they arent even supposed to talk about it, because they are whiny-babies. the whole lot of them.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Yes, I do have a Champ - a 73 Silverface.

I lived in apartments for many years. No, I didn't play my amps at full volume. If you can't crank it, then an OD pedal is your friend.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Yes, I do have a Champ - a 73 Silverface.
> 
> I lived in apartments for many years. No, I didn't play my amps at full volume. If you can't crank it, then an OD pedal is your friend.


wah! I didn't play my amps at full volume. i couldnt crank it, so an od pedal became my friend! 
the snake begins to swallow his own tail.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

fraser said:


> wah! I didn't play my amps at full volume. i couldnt crank it, so an od pedal became my friend!
> the snake begins to swallow his own tail.


My comment was a shot toward those who said the Champ is "too loud for home". The Champ is a home and studio amp.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I have a tweed Princeton, which is essentially the same circuit as the older Champ (not much variation in 3-tube circuits), although it foregoes the passive loss through a Fender tonestack so there is a bit more grind out of it, given the 2nd tube stage can be (depending on your Volume setting) pushed with a hotter signal. 

I have a more efficient 8" JBL speaker in there, and it can get pretty loud, though not loud enough to compete favourably with a drummer. You would know the amp is there, but you wouldn't necessarily be able to know what was being played unless the drummer was using brushes or something.

The thing to remember about a 12" vs 10" or 8" speaker is that while a larger cone can push more air, and so generate more audible bass, it also possesses greater mass, which means it doesn't accelerate quite as quickly, so it provides a bit less treble and has a lower resonant frequency. That shifts the tonal balance over a bit. It is also fair to say that the larger the speaker, usually the larger the cab, which plays its own role in shifting tonal balance.


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

I own a 6w 1968 drip edge Vibro Champ. I assume you may be referring to the older tweed champs in your original post. I to get that kind of overdrive, I need mine on 9 or so. It's not crazy loud, but would not work in an apartment or condo type residence.


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