# Quick Solder Question...



## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi all you electronic wizards out there 

I need to buy some new solder. I know I need to look for leaded, but what size/gauge should I get for general guitar/speaker work? I only want to buy one thing of solder at this point, so a general purpose size would be best.

Thanks!

~Andrew


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2009)

Kester 44! 60/40, 0.031".


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I am not responding as an electronics wizard...only as someone who owns some solder.

I have been using 1.2 mm /0.050" 63/37 solder (that was what you used to make your A/B pedal at my place). It is by NEXXTECH..However, I *think *Kester might be a better quality, if you can find it. I'm sure it is probably not that big of a deal

I have some that is a bit "thicker"...but I like this size for most work.

Cheers

Dave


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2009)

greco said:


> I'm sure it is probably not that big of a deal


Yea: you're right.

If you just aim for a 60/40 blend with a rosin core you'll be aces. Buy slimmer if you can. It's always easy to add a little more solder, but harder to take a little away if you make a mess.

But don't you just like saying "Kester"? :smile:


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

iaresee said:


> Yea: you're right.
> 
> Buy slimmer if you can. It's always easy to add a little more solder, but harder to take a little away if you make a mess.
> 
> But don't you just like saying "Kester"? :smile:


*This is so true *(about adding solder rather than trying to take it away) !! 

.....Kester, Kester, Kester...sounds like a foreign beer I had once..."a pint of Kester lager please"

cheers

Dave


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

Just stay away from acid core and you're fine.. I think...


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2009)

keefsdad said:


> Just stay away from acid core and you're fine.. I think...


And lead free. :smile:


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Alrighty...

Home Depot was useless...

The Source has leaded solder, so I picked up some 60/40 0.032" solder. Should have picked up more, as who knows how long they will carry it!

Also, on good advice from Greco, and I picked up the Helping Hands thing...should come in handy!!

Will let you all know how the rest of my cab mods go!

~Andrew


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## bogoboy (May 21, 2006)

*Leaded solder*

Why use leaded solder? Aim SN 100C has no lead and MG Chemical has a no lead solder (made in Canada). All are excellent solder wire for electronics.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2009)

Get leaded, much easier to work with . A bottle of flux isn't a bad thing either.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2009)

bogoboy said:


> Why use leaded solder? Aim SN 100C has no lead and MG Chemical has a no lead solder (made in Canada). All are excellent solder wire for electronics.


Melts at a lower temperature. No whiskers.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

bogoboy said:


> Why use leaded solder? *Aim SN 100C *has no lead and *MG Chemical *has a no lead solder (made in Canada). All are excellent solder wire for electronics.


Do you find them easy to work with?.....in comparison to leaded solder.

Dave


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## bogoboy (May 21, 2006)

Unleaded is VERY easy to work with (I've built an amp and several pedals using it) and it's a lot safer to use. It has much better electrical connectivity as well.


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## bogoboy (May 21, 2006)

Ck the specs on unleaded solder here:
www.aimsolder.com/tds/SN100C Alloy TDS.pdf


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

bogoboy said:


> Unleaded is VERY easy to work with ......... It has much better electrical connectivity as well.


Interesting. So far, you are the first person that I have heard from that likes unleaded solder. 

I wasn't aware that it has better electrical connectivity. 

Thanks for the link to the pdf...I read it but most of the technical stuff was "over my head".

Cheers

Dave


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

bogoboy said:


> Ck the specs on unleaded solder here:
> www.aimsolder.com/tds/SN100C Alloy TDS.pdf


That link leads to a datasheet on using the stuff for wavesoldering, which is an assembly line process. This is a quite different application than hand soldering.

My experience with hand soldering is that no-lead sucks! And I've been soldering for over 45 years. I also sold parts to manufacturers for hand soldering, wave soldering and pick and place machines. I am quite familiar with the subject!

The problem is that no-lead has a much higher melting point than traditional leaded solder. This makes it much easier to damage the part being soldered. With machine forms of soldering if you can get sufficient 'wetting' the extra heat required can be compensated by not having to apply it as long.

Hand soldering is a much different application. I've tried it and I want no part of it!

You claim that you've used it with no problems. I sincerely would like to not only see your projects but also find out how long it took you to do the soldering compared to the traditional stuff.

If you're happy with it that's your business but I wouldn't use the stuff if you put a gun to my head! To me, it's not the 'green' factors. It just doesn't work worth a damn!

I'm soldering every day, building and repairing amps. I need solder that I can quickly use with no special needs or problems. I just can't afford the time for 'screwing around'.

It's worse with plumbing applications. Talk to a professional plumber! Gone are the days when you can quickly work with a propane torch. They use welders' torches nowadays with the lead free stuff! That's why we have seen an explosion of new non-soldering forms of plumbing fixtures, like compression fittings and couplings. Before lead free solder we didn't need them. Unfortunately, those methods aren't applicable to an electrical connection.

There's no way around it. Take out the lead and the melting point goes way up! That's just chemistry. Chemistry doesn't care about being green. It works the way it works and it doesn't the way it doesn't!

I'm very surprised that you could solder up a pedal with that stuff without frying a transistor or IC.

Oh well, chaque a son gout.

:food-smiley-004:


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

I whole heartedly agree with Wild Bill. It's a pain in the ass with SMT components that can tolerate very high temperatures. I'm very surprised that you find it easy to work with these much larger components.


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2009)

bogoboy said:


> Unleaded is VERY easy to work with (I've built an amp and several pedals using it) and it's a lot safer to use. It has much better electrical connectivity as well.


Sorry mate. I've seen the whisker mess inside some of Nortel's RoHS-compliant metronet gear and it's bad. From my cold dead hands will you pry my leaded solder. :smile:


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## bogoboy (May 21, 2006)

I'm not going to argue with the likes of Wildbill. But I have found no problems the unleaded stuff. I've built four pedals with the unleaded. As for needing much more heat, I'm using a cheap 40W iron with NO problems. Perhaps the "nay Sayers" should give the stuff a try before saying it doesn't work outright. Using anything with lead makes me nervous. By the way, I didn't "fry" a thing.


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

bogoboy said:


> I'm not going to argue with the likes of Wildbill. But I have found no problems the unleaded stuff. I've built four pedals with the unleaded. As for needing much more heat, I'm using a cheap 40W iron with NO problems. Perhaps the "nay Sayers" should give the stuff a try before saying it doesn't work outright. Using anything with lead makes me nervous. By the way, I didn't "fry" a thing.


Well, I did try it! And I've seen the problems! With hand soldering and in industrial applications. When the Europeans first rammed this through it was driven entirely by "green warriors". It was all politics and very little regard to actual science or technology.

There are BIG differences between soluble lead, particulate lead, solid lead or lead in solder! When lead is used in solder it is bound to the connection. You would have to reheat it to get the lead molecules free to potentially get into the food chain, at least in anything more than a trivial "parts per quintillion zillion" amount.

However, when your "eco" goal is to reduce free lead in the environment, you don't pay attention to such mundane details. First off, I would guess that over 90% of "eco warriors" do NOT come from the sciences! Certainly not from "hard" sciences like physics or chemistry. Most are poli-sci graduates or English majors, IMHO.:smile:

Second, you are trying to change the world and most of its people are not technically trained either. To educate them as to the different forms of an element would be a hard task indeed. Much easier to just get them to support banning ALL forms of lead!

A similar thing was done with asbestos. Asbestos fibres are indeed a deadly health danger. Banning asbestos fibre insulation and other forms of the stuff was only common sense. However, asbestos was also used in hard sheet forms for construction. NO fibres! The danger from asbestos in such forms is very minimal. Yet the SAME rules apply!

Now, it would be easy to say "So what?" and support having no distinctions, in the interests of "being safe". However, if you are the owner of a building that is being torn down or renovated and you are forced to pay a LOT of money to have NON-fibre asbestos removed you might not appreciate it! Before you think "Oh well, those greedy capitalist pig property owners can afford it!" you should know that the rules apply even to ordinary home owners. Even a little old lady living on her pension could be hit with a bill far higher than she could afford.

It always seems that the people driving these new rules take zero consideration that there will be a practical substitute. They take it for granted that the "techies" will just come up with something else. Sometimes there ISN'T something else! Or if there is, it doesn't work as well. This is typical of non-technical educations. All science and technology is regarded as "magic". Therefore "magicians" should be able to come up with anything!

Sometimes the green movement gets used as pawns by "Big Business". You might want to google up the story of Dupont chemical and what happened with the old refrigerator/air conditioner coolant fluid. Dupont held the patent on that stuff for years and years and then back in the 70's their lawyers were finally running out of tricks to keep the patent active. Soon anybody could make the stuff! It would be public domain.

The money involved was in the zillions! How many refrigerators, freezers, and air conditioners in homes, office buildings and cars were there in the world? Dupont did NOT want to lose their monopoly!

Suddenly, the idea of the depleting ozone layer and the role of CFC's found in the coolant came about. It grew bigger and bigger until just about the whole world was talking about it. People everywhere were refusing to buy aerosol spray cans, so that they too could help to "save the planet".

Now "techies" found all this hard to believe. One volcano erupting would spew more CFC's into the upper atmosphere than Man ever could, by hundreds if not thousands of times! So what was the big deal? Still, they soon learned that if they went against the flow they would be branded as "evil", or at least, much more ignorant about the issue than a poli-sci major!

Suddenly, two things happen almost simultaneously. First off, the old refrigerant gets banned! There is a grace period of a few years to adapt and then that would be it.

Second, a substitute is found. Immediately it becomes a new standard. It doesn't work quite as well as the old stuff, which means it may actually make a unit burn a bit more energy but hey! It's the ONLY thing you can get! Everything else is illegal.

The big surprise? Guess who holds the patent on the new stuff!

Dupont!

Big money is not always stupid. They can see ways to use the green movement to make them more profit. No wonder Mr. Moore, a founding member, quit Greenpeace.

Anyhow, again I say "to each to their own taste". As for myself, I agree with "larasee" about "my cold dead hands". Meanwhile, some boutique brands of guitar amps have already switched to lead free solder and have been showing serious problems, especially after the warranty runs out. I have no desire to get on board, especially when I find the "science" to be dubious.

What really scares me about these issues is that there ARE things we really SHOULD worry about but they get ignored! The 'green" movement keeps crying wolf yet sometimes there IS a wolf at the door!

The only trouble will be that after dealing with all the unimportant stuff we'll be too broke and tired to handle something REALLY dangerous!

Like hip hop! Look what its doing to people's brains! That's scarier than watching "3D House of Stewardesses"!

:food-smiley-004:


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

WOW, LOL.

I've never known anyone who knew that much about solder.

For what it's worth, I've always used leaded, rosin core solder. The current spool I have says:

NexxTech
High-Tech Rosin Core Silver Bearing Solder 0.6 mm

It's great for electronic stuff and fine for repairing cables et cetera.


I have not tried Lead free.


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## bogoboy (May 21, 2006)

I guess I'm alone on this... Wild Bill thank you for your reply. I'm not a Birkenstock loving environmentalist - I just don't want to be breathing in lead fumes while soldering. I would like to refer you to this paper done on SN 100C solder and its reliability. 

http://www.e-solder.info/english/tech/pdf/paper_HighReliabilityLead-freeSolderSN100C_071023.pdf

I don't claim to be an expert, nor do I question your experience in electronics, or knowledge of soldering. I just saying that MY experience differs and that the use of lead-free solder (in my most humble opinion) is an option. The amp I wired over three years ago is still working. Will it be in ten or twenty years? I don't know. 

Thank you and I hope I have not offended you Mr. Bill.


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

bogoboy said:


> I guess I'm alone on this... Wild Bill thank you for your reply. I'm not a Birkenstock loving environmentalist - I just don't want to be breathing in lead fumes while soldering. I would like to refer you to this paper done on SN 100C solder and its reliability.
> 
> http://www.e-solder.info/english/tech/pdf/paper_HighReliabilityLead-freeSolderSN100C_071023.pdf
> 
> ...


No, no, no Mr. B! No offense! We are all entitled to our own opinions!:smile:

I just like the debate! If someone has an opinion that differs from mine I like to hear how they defend it. That's how we all learn!

I will admit that I am biased on many of these subjects. I truly believe that often larger interests take advantage of people that do not always have the technical background to know when they're being snookered. This "taking advantage of the little guy" offends my old hippy heart!

I wouldn't worry about lead fumes. Lead melts at a far lower temperature than it becomes a gas so there's very little actual lead in the fumes. Your iron just isn't hot enough to make the lead boil! Most of the 'smoke' is from the rosen flux.

Mind you, it never hurts to have good ventilation. A small clamp-on fan will keep the stuff away from your eyes and nose.

I read the paper and it rather avoided the higher temperatures needed in the text. It went on and on about the quality of the joints and such. That's not the problem with hand soldering. The problem is heating the solder all those extra degrees without damaging the part or lifting the traces off the pcb. Some amps have very cheap boards with thin and narrow traces. It's too easy as it is to damage the board without adding an excessive heat problem.

As I had said, with lots of skull sweat and cursing industry has found work-arounds for lead free solder with machine-soldering applications. I just don't like it when I'm trying to solder a cap to a tube socket!

Still, Mr. B., if it works for you then who cares what I think? And never worry about arguing with me! Believe it or not, I can be wrong!kqoct

Techies argue perhaps more than anyone, especially 'cuz there may be more than one way to get something to work. We love to argue and we love to prove by actual experiment!

The day I refuse to support someone else's right to hold an opinion is the day I will enrol at Queens or McGill!

:food-smiley-004:


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

Wild Bill said:


> The day I refuse to support someone else's right to hold an opinion is the day I will enrol at Queens or McGill!
> 
> :food-smiley-004:


I don't get it?


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

mrmatt1972 said:


> I don't get it?


Not wanting to have things escalate so that we break GC's rules, but Queens and McGill are two universities that have been in the news over the past couple of years for suppressing free speech.

They've censored jewish speakers and Queens even went so far as to appoint proctors to hang around student lounges and areas, listening in on conversations and issuing warnings to anyone who was 'politically incorrect'.

It wasn't that great a joke, I guess!:smile:

:food-smiley-004:


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

Wild Bill said:


> Not wanting to have things escalate so that we break GC's rules, but Queens and McGill are two universities that have been in the news over the past couple of years for suppressing free speech.
> 
> They've censored jewish speakers and Queens even went so far as to appoint proctors to hang around student lounges and areas, listening in on conversations and issuing warnings to anyone who was 'politically incorrect'.
> 
> ...


Wow, I had no idea. Kind of defeats the purpose of a University wouldn't you say? Sorry for veering kkjwpw.

BTW, when I solder I use whatever lead solder the local store has...

Matt


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## autorpm (Apr 21, 2008)

Lead solder is used for radiatiors and automotive applications never ever use on electronics !!!!!! Only lead free rosin core


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

autorpm said:


> *never ever use on electronics !!!!!! Only lead free rosin core*


Why?.......hwopv

It works well for me....and a quite a few others I can think of.

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

SO.....picked up the Leaded solder at The Source...

Worked with it tonight, and WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! My little 25 pencil tip iron just worked wonders with that solder. I was able to fix all my mistakes!!

Never again will I use leaded solder!

~Andrew


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

kw_guitarguy said:


> SO.....picked up the *Leaded solder *at The Source...
> 
> Never again will I use *leaded solder*!
> 
> ~Andrew


Andrew...you are confusing me here...which solder did you get?

Cheers

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

That's what I get for posting first thing in the morning!

Never again will use LEAD FREE solder...This is what I picked up:

Nexxtech 60/40 0.032"

And it worked wonders, I just finished playing with the cab for a bit, and everything appears to be working!

~Andrew


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