# Keeping the car you love; losing the emissions you hate



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Converting cars to e-engines.









The classic cars being converted to electric vehicles


Historic cars are being retrofitted with recycled electric motors and batteries.



www.bbc.com


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

I believe that doing that to a classic car would be like taking your classic tube amp and replacing it with semi-conductors. I can't imagine a passionate collector considering doing that.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

That would be a hard pass from me.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Leave the classics alone. I saw a video recently where a guy converted an Audi S5 into an electric vehicle. he used a Tesla engine and battery modules and beyond that I dunno. Pretty cool. 

If I had the know how to convert my F150 into an electric truck I’d be right on that. Yes I know the lightning is coming out.... big $$$$ though.

edit, found the video


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul Running said:


> I believe that doing that to a classic car would be like taking your classic tube amp and replacing it with semi-conductors. I can't imagine a passionate collector considering doing that.


Not likely unless the motor was completely unrestorable or laws were enacted that make ICE too expensive or just plain illegal.

I think you can get better performance and economy with electric and I'm all in favour of that, but they _have_ made much better tuning concepts than Kluson tuners, TOM bridges and stud tail pieces for electric guitars and yet I don't see many on Les Pauls.

I think many people wouldn't convert a classic car to electric unless forced to do so.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Neil Young was playing with that concept 20+ years ago. Nothing new.

I hope they come with a sound track at least.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Milkman said:


> I think many people wouldn't convert a classic car to electric unless forced to do so.


Well that's just it. Let's say you have a vehicle that *requires* leaded gas. Can one find such fuel anymore? And if you can, could you take that car on any sort of long trip? At some point, finding a gas station may become as difficult as finding leaded gas. Or perhaps diesel fuel will still be available for long-haul truckers, but largely limited to that. Is your beloved classic car, that you worked so hard to keep the body and interior beautiful, simply going to sit in the driveway? Yes, it may be that what made that car so well-loved WAS the thrum of a 400cubic inch V8. So I fully understand the reluctance of someone to turn a gas-tiger into an e-kitten. On the other hand, plenty of classic cars are beloved not so much because of the noise they make or their "pickup power", but because of the design, or quirky features. It's not like they are going to be made anymore, so why not keep them going? What do all those folks who own pre-war classic cars do to keep them alive? I'm pretty certain Model Ts didn't use unleaded gas.

When I was a kid, my friends and I would read Road & Track, and there were all these fibreglass retrofits that could use a basic VW bug chassis and turn it into Ferrari-inspired sports car. Why not take your beloved sports car and keep it alive electronically?

Not really any different than converting vinyl to digital form in order to preserve it. Is it *exactly* the same? No. Is it better than not having the music at all? Yes.


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## Jeffery Young (Mar 5, 2019)

This trend is only going to increase, and quickly. There's already a bunch of companies focused on this in the U.S., with some amazing outcomes.

I think it's great. And yes, I enjoy classic cars and used to drive a '69 Firebird.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Well that's just it. Let's say you have a vehicle that *requires* leaded gas. Can one find such fuel anymore? And if you can, could you take that car on any sort of long trip? At some point, finding a gas station may become as difficult as finding leaded gas. Or perhaps diesel fuel will still be available for long-haul truckers, but largely limited to that. Is your beloved classic car, that you worked so hard to keep the body and interior beautiful, simply going to sit in the driveway? Yes, it may be that what made that car so well-loved WAS the thrum of a 400cubic inch V8. So I fully understand the reluctance of someone to turn a gas-tiger into an e-kitten. On the other hand, plenty of classic cars are beloved not so much because of the noise they make or their "pickup power", but because of the design, or quirky features. It's not like they are going to be made anymore, so why not keep them going? What do all those folks who own pre-war classic cars do to keep them alive? I'm pretty certain Model Ts didn't use unleaded gas.
> 
> When I was a kid, my friends and I would read Road & Track, and there were all these fibreglass retrofits that could use a basic VW bug chassis and turn it into Ferrari-inspired sports car. Why not take your beloved sports car and keep it alive electronically?
> 
> Not really any different than converting vinyl to digital form in order to preserve it. Is it *exactly* the same? No. Is it better than not having the music at all? Yes.


Oh I like the idea. I just don't think classic car enthusiasts will unless there's a gun to their heads.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Well that's just it. Let's say you have a vehicle that *requires* leaded gas. Can one find such fuel anymore? And if you can, could you take that car on any sort of long trip? At some point, finding a gas station may become as difficult as finding leaded gas. Or perhaps diesel fuel will still be available for long-haul truckers, but largely limited to that. Is your beloved classic car, that you worked so hard to keep the body and interior beautiful, simply going to sit in the driveway? Yes, it may be that what made that car so well-loved WAS the thrum of a 400cubic inch V8. So I fully understand the reluctance of someone to turn a gas-tiger into an e-kitten. On the other hand, plenty of classic cars are beloved not so much because of the noise they make or their "pickup power", but because of the design, or quirky features. It's not like they are going to be made anymore, so why not keep them going? What do all those folks who own pre-war classic cars do to keep them alive? I'm pretty certain Model Ts didn't use unleaded gas.
> 
> When I was a kid, my friends and I would read Road & Track, and there were all these fibreglass retrofits that could use a basic VW bug chassis and turn it into Ferrari-inspired sports car. Why not take your beloved sports car and keep it alive electronically?
> 
> Not really any different than converting vinyl to digital form in order to preserve it. Is it *exactly* the same? No. Is it better than not having the music at all? Yes.


Leaded gas has been unavailable for decades. I buy a lead substitute for my MG - half a bottle per fill. The alternative is to rebuild the head with hardened valve seats and then you can use unleaded.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Lincoln said:


> Neil Young was playing with that concert 20+ years ago. Nothing new.
> 
> I hope they come with a sound track at least.


The Neil Young car fire incident.












https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/neil-young-s-hybrid-car-sparked-fire-1.877502


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I'd love to have my '74 Volvo 144 back as an electric car. I was a young man driving an old man car back then. Renewed as an electric I'd be an old man driving a new fangled car. That would be fun for me. Besides, Mrs Mooh and I had our first adventures in that car, and...[clears throat]...


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I may be the only person on this site who has never had sex in a car.

I guess I always managed to find a bed somehow.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Mooh said:


> I'd love to have my '74 Volvo 144 back as an electric car. I was a young man driving an old man car back then. Renewed as an electric I'd be an old man driving a new fangled car. That would be fun for me. Besides, Mrs Mooh and I had our first adventures in that car, and...[clears throat]...


...grandchildren ensued.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The thread, and article, is pitched in terms of keeping well-loved vehicles on the road. Let's give this a quarter twist. If we don't adapt existing vehicles to a non-combustion-engine world, what's going to happen to all those cars on the road right now, or still relatively new when e-cars eventually become standard? They can't ALL go to the scrapyard to be replaced with a new e-vehicle. Do we all have cassette-decks or even CD players in our cars? Not likely. So we convert our music collection to a format that remains usable in a vehicle that only thinks in terms of MP3.


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## Fred Gifford (Sep 2, 2019)

it's like putting a Floyd Rose on a mint, one-owner 1959 LP Standard ... you lose at least half the value immediatly, if not more .. it's your money


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

mhammer said:


> The thread, and article, is pitched in terms of keeping well-loved vehicles on the road. Let's give this a quarter twist. If we don't adapt existing vehicles to a non-combustion-engine world, what's going to happen to all those cars on the road right now, or still relatively new when e-cars eventually become standard? They can't ALL go to the scrapyard to be replaced with a new e-vehicle. Do we all have cassette-decks or even CD players in our cars? Not likely. So we convert our music collection to a format that remains usable in a vehicle that only thinks in terms of MP3.


I have a CD changer in my car. So does my wife.

Do you think this is much different than guitarists still using tube amps in 2021?

I’m not trying to be argumentative but I think classic car lovers may resist.

As I said, I would be happy to convert.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I like the smell of race gas and the sound of an engine that’s cammed and tuned to the edge so that it can barely idle.


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## Grainslayer (Sep 26, 2016)

I wish more classic car owners would switch to electric.They clearly have no clue or desire to set up their carbs properly.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Do you think this is much different than guitarists still using tube amps in 2021?
> 
> I’m not trying to be argumentative but I think classic car lovers may resist.
> 
> As I said, I would be happy to convert.


I doubt they would say "Sign me up!" right away, but as people get "nudged" they tend to change their behaviour.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

mhammer said:


> I doubt they would say "Sign me up!" right away, but as people get "nudged" they tend to change their behaviour.


And the tube thing? Have we not been "nudged" effectively?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Milkman said:


> I may be the only person on this site who has never had sex in a car.
> 
> I guess I always managed to find a bed somehow.


Same.
Well, i did it once or twice just for the novelty of it. It was underwhelming in every way.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I think the tube analogy is a good one and shows our hypocrisy.
Think of how bad tubes must be for the environment that they can only be made in the sketchiest of places by the poorest of people. Factor in the carbon from the transport of them halfway across the planet, as well as the improper means to dispose of them.
And yet, we still flock to NEW tube amps as well as keep the old ones going instead of just buying AxeFx or something.

Reminds me of my neighbour, the retired teacher and self proclaimed environmentalist....who just bought a new gas mower instead of electric (and doesnt have a big yard), owns a 27' cabin cruiser that burns through a ton of fuel all summer, as well as a loud rumbling old carbureted harley that you can smell the unburnt fuel from the exhaust a block away.
everyones green until it affects their preferred lifestyle.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

When it comes to old cars being "renewed" there are stock models and there are custom models - both have their place and fans. 

Oftentimes a sports car is all about it's handling - and that's considerably dependent on balance and weight distribution. If you stripped out the ICE in my MG, the gas tank etc and put in an electric motor driving the rear wheels and a honkin' battery I'm pretty sure my car would lose all of it's handling. It's exhaust note might change too, as would the need to shift gears.

What I'd have would be more of a clown car - a novelty like a VW Bug with a fibreglass Rolls Royce nose.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

allthumbs56 said:


> When it comes to old cars being "renewed" there are stock models and there are custom models - both have their place and fans.
> 
> Oftentimes a sports car is all about it's handling - and that's considerably dependent on balance and weight distribution. If you stripped out the ICE in my MG, the gas tank etc and put in an electric motor driving the rear wheels and a honkin' battery I'm pretty sure my car would lose all of it's handling. It's exhaust note might change too, as would the need to shift gears.
> 
> ...


The re-issue e-models gives me the same gut-feeling that the re-issue classic amps do:


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Diablo said:


> I think the tube analogy is a good one and shows our hypocrisy.
> Think of how bad tubes must be for the environment that they can only be made in the sketchiest of places by the poorest of people. Factor in the carbon from the transport of them halfway across the planet, as well as the improper means to dispose of them.
> And yet, we still flock to NEW tube amps as well as keep the old ones going instead of just buying AxeFx or something.


I bought my '59 Princeton in 1976. Still had the original tubes. I used them for another 20 years after that, before changing them. Yes, I suppose tube production does have its environmental downsides, and I suppose that eventually an emulation might do a good job of copying it, but this amp is never going out to the curb like all those solid-state ones that people grow tired of and toss out because it was "only" $100. If adapting a vehicle you love to run on something other than gasoline keeps it going longer, rather than sending it to the scrapyard, I think that's a good thing.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

any of you guys who think gasoline is going away any time soon are deluded. there's no infrastructure to support wide spread electric vehicle use. not just charging stations, but the power grid too. 
what are you going to do on a long trip? only drive 100 miles in a day? hang out at a charging station for 6-8 hours while your car is plugged in? is there ANY viable ev that you can charge in 15 minutes? no. is there anyone capable of producing one any time soon? no. what happens in summertime when everyone goes home, kicks up the a/c in their house, and plugs in the car? what is powering most power generating stations? 3 guesses. you guys want a nuke plant in your back yard? i bet you'll say nimby to that.

on top of that, anyone who takes a nice muscle car, especially rare ones, is not going to convert the car, because that would be sacrilege. these guys buy nos hoses with correct date code, but you think they're going to go electric? you guys are smokin something wack


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Paul Running said:


> The re-issue e-models gives me the same gut-feeling that the re-issue classic amps do:
> View attachment 382290


Somewhat interesting that they are fitting brand new body shells:









Jonny Smith Drives The Classic MGB Converted To Run On Electricity


If you’re against the electrification of classic vehicles, then what they’ve done to this MGB may get your riled up.




insideevs.com


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Paul Running said:


> I believe that doing that to a classic car would be like taking your classic tube amp and replacing it with semi-conductors. I can't imagine a passionate collector considering doing that.


I think more practical minded people in the UK would do it to older cars built before 1981 that aren't so collectable, as it says to avoid a license tax. 
An electric Pinto anyone? Goodbye gas tank.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I think the long term goal is no personal use transportation electric or ICB. Electric cars create a lot of dirt from cradle to grave likely more than a 6 banger BMW but that is being ignored - for now.

In the meantime this is a happy compromise for long trips with an electric vehicle:


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

not only that but the latest conventional cars are getting pretty close to zero emissions anyway. Carbon dioxide and water, that's it. You can put a carbon monoxide monitor right in the exhaust and they won't even register.

Meanwhile, the electric vehicles I've seen have gasoline heaters so dirty that every gas monitor within a hundred yards of one goes crazy. Makes sense, right?


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

tomee2 said:


> I think more practical minded people in the UK would do it to older cars built before 1981 that aren't so collectable, as it says to avoid a license tax.
> An electric Pinto anyone? Goodbye gas tank.


In the link I looked at they're installing the electric components in newly-made body shells. Not quite as sacrilegious - but not my cup of tea either. I love the noises and smells my B makes - it's a complete driving immersion.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Grainslayer (Sep 26, 2016)

allthumbs56 said:


> In the link I looked at they're installing the electric components in newly-made body shells. Not quite as sacrilegious - but not my cup of tea either. I love the noises and smells my B makes - it's a complete driving immersion.


Ive had to restore a few MGs..I wish the customer had gone with a new shell.lol


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

mhammer said:


> I bought my '59 Princeton in 1976. Still had the original tubes. I used them for another 20 years after that, before changing them. Yes, I suppose tube production does have its environmental downsides, and I suppose that eventually an emulation might do a good job of copying it, but this amp is never going out to the curb like all those solid-state ones that people grow tired of and toss out because it was "only" $100. If adapting a vehicle you love to run on something other than gasoline keeps it going longer, rather than sending it to the scrapyard, I think that's a good thing.


Using that logic then, keeping an ICE powered car running so as to keep it from going to the junkyard is a good thing as well, because you haven’t done anything to make your tube amp more enviro friendly either.

that doesn’t seem to be the message we’re given. We’re told to throw out old fridges, incandescent bulbs, inefficient older furnaces and air conditioners etc, in commercials paid for by the government featuring certain famous environmental experts.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Grainslayer said:


> Ive had to resore a few MGs..I wish the customer had gone with a new shell.lol


Looking for work?


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Paul Running said:


> I believe that doing that to a classic car would be like taking your classic tube amp and replacing it with semi-conductors. I can't imagine a passionate collector considering doing that.


I agree that it is a weird idea.
If I owned a collection, I would not overhaul them all.
I do think it’s a good idea to do to one of them though.

If I were to look at a “classic” ish car today I would buy one that has a shot block and think about making it electric simply because it is already going to require an overhaul of some kind.

I don’t think it would be smart to take immaculate examples or ones that already have extensive work and hours of careful period correct restoration and gut them.

Also, the technology for electric power will grow and develop exponentially over the next decade to the point where I’d have concerns about investing heavily in today’s version of it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Always12AM said:


> Also, the technology for electric power will grow and develop exponentially over the next decade to the point where I’d have concerns about investing heavily in today’s version of it.


True, but at some point one has to s**t or get off the pot. I guess the question is when that point will come. Myself, I'd like to go to my grave never owning a cellphone. Hate the blasted things. But, much like the way analog TV reception went the way of the dodo and we had to get the requisite adaptor box, at some point I won't be able to use my landline any more, and will have to adapt.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

cheezyridr said:


> is there ANY viable ev that you can charge in 15 minutes? no. is there anyone capable of producing one any time soon? no. what happens in summertime when everyone goes home, kicks up the a/c in their house, and plugs in the car? what is powering most power generating stations? 3 guesses. you guys want a nuke plant in your back yard? i bet you'll say nimby to that.


Kia EV-6

*Ultra Fast Charging*
The 800V high-speed multi-charging system of the EV6 enables you to find that extra time for things that really matter to you. A quick charge for less than 4.5 minutes would give you 100km of driving range. It takes less than 18 minutes to charge from 10 to 80%.*



















*480km Estimated Range*
EV6's 77.4kWh battery can enable an estimated 480km driving range when fully charged.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

davetcan said:


> Kia EV-6
> 
> *Ultra Fast Charging*
> The 800V high-speed multi-charging system of the EV6 enables you to find that extra time for things that really matter to you. A quick charge for less than 4.5 minutes would give you 100km of driving range. It takes less than 18 minutes to charge from 10 to 80%.*
> ...


50 amps worth of 220 volts? I can't see anyone getting that kind of charging rate out of 15 amps of 110V


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

My car is 30 years old and a daily driver. I couldn't give a rat's butt what powers it or what it's worth after any sort of engine conversion. I know its value to me and I'd like to continue to keep this timeless car. But IMO, electric vehicle technology still isn't there yet and not worth the conversion. And the supporting infrastructure still isn't robust enough and probably won't be for many, many years - maybe decades before I trust it all to work reliably - and everywhere around the globe (not just G7 nations).

Once something worthwhile comes along, like hydrogen power or some type of safe & controlled matter/antimatter engine, I'll keep filling up w/ 94 octane until I'm forced to convert to whatever engine I can get away with (like a perpetual motion power drive).


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

davetcan said:


> *Ultra Fast Charging*
> The 800V high-speed multi-charging system of the EV6 enables you to find that extra time for things that really matter to you. A quick charge for less than 4.5 minutes would give you 100km of driving range. It takes less than 18 minutes to charge from 10 to 80%.*


That is a pile of energy density.
If you let all conditions be linear then, 10% to an 80% state would be the equivalent of 77.4kWh × 0.7 = 54.18KWH for 800VDC battery = 67.725AH charge rate for 1 hour
Therefore 18 minutes = 67.725(60/18) = 225.75A
Charge rate is 225.75A @ 800VDC...special safety precautions required.
Note: don't know qualifier for the *.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Paul Running said:


> That is a pile of energy density.
> If you let all conditions be linear then, 10% to an 80% state would be the equivalent of 77.4kWh × 0.7 = 54.18KWH for 800VDC battery = 67.725AH charge rate for 1 hour
> Therefore 18 minutes = 67.725(60/18) = 225.75A
> Charge rate is 225.75A @ 800VDC...special safety precautions required.
> Note: don't know qualifier for the *.


LOL, I was just answering Cheezy's question. I'm a petrol head. Having said that I expect we'll be forced into electric long before we're actually ready for it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

This is kind of why I found the thread for that pickup truck the other day so puzzling. Rivian R1T On the one hand we see an investment in development of a vehicle that they're betting will be popular because, you know, it's a _pickup_ truck. On the other hand, we see all these naysayers here pooh-poohing the idea of a small sedan being electrified.

It seems to me that many don't seem to have any sense of what direction all of this should be headed in. Yes, combustion engines will be here for a while longer. But just exactly what sorts of vehicles should they or would they be necessary for? I can't see an 18-wheeler running off batteries any time soon, especially if it also has to power refrigeration. But what about vehicles smaller than that? Could city buses be electrified if they were made lighter?

I think it also worth noting that the original article is from_ England_, for crying out loud, where interurban distances are closer to how far most of us here would have to go to hit a Shopper's Drug Mart or Cannabis store. I'm driving to Halifax starting Thursday. A little over 1300km...and I'm still in the same country!! So, what counts as "decent" range for charging time invested will certainly vary by region. An e-sedan in the Golden Triangle will probably do ya nicely. If I lived in rural Saskatchewan or Alberta or had to travel along HIghway 11 from Kapuskasing to Thunder Bay, it'd be risky. You can lug a jerry can of gas back to the car, if someone gives you a lift. I don't know what you do if your batteries are kaput and the nearest charging station is 200km away.

But it's coming. It'll probably be a little different than what we have now, as better technology gets developed in response to identified shortcomings. But it's coming.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

mhammer said:


> It seems to me that many don't seem to have any sense of what direction all of this should be headed in.


Hydrogen fuel cell is the answer you seek.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Actually my next door neighbour is a chemical engineering prof at U of O and was working on those for a little while. He didn't seem especially hopeful last time I broached the topic with him.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

mhammer said:


> Actually my next door neighbour is a chemical engineering prof at U of O and was working on those for a little while. He didn't seem especially hopeful last time I broached the topic with him.


They're commercially available in B.C. and Quebec. The only real hold up is hesitancy to install fueling infrastructure. There are also manufacturers working on synthetic fuels that could solve the emissions problem without requiring doing away with internal combustion engines.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Okay Player said:


> Hydrogen fuel cell is the answer you seek.


It might be one of the answers-for awhile perhaps. Electric charging stations and general infrastructure is likely a lot cheaper and safer, I think there's a good reason Tesla chose electricity versus hydrogen and it appears a lot of people agree.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

LanceT said:


> It might be one of the answers-for awhile perhaps. Electric charging stations and general infrastructure is likely a lot cheaper and safer, I think there's a good reason Tesla chose electricity versus hydrogen and it appears a lot of people agree.


We have nowhere near enough electrical capacity to flip the switch on electric cars. Hydrogen on the other hand can basically plug-in in place of gasoline.

I have a high level of admiration for Elon Musk's spirit, but don't fool yourself into thinking that his vanity projects have that much forethought into them.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Okay Player said:


> We have nowhere near enough electrical capacity to flip the switch on electric cars. Hydrogen on the other hand can basically plug-in in place of gasoline.
> 
> I have a high level of admiration for Elon Musk's spirit, but don't fool yourself into thinking that his vanity projects have that much forethought into them.


I can't really argue any facts here, I've done no research but from the expansion of charging stations here in BC, I do know it is a routine trip from the coast to the Okanagan now with stations along the route. I am not sure what you mean by 'enough electrical capacity', are you referring to electrical infrastructure? This is essentially unlimited as far as I can see.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

mhammer said:


> True, but at some point one has to s**t or get off the pot. I guess the question is when that point will come. Myself, I'd like to go to my grave never owning a cellphone. Hate the blasted things. But, much like the way analog TV reception went the way of the dodo and we had to get the requisite adaptor box, at some point I won't be able to use my landline any more, and will have to adapt.


I am not happy with how plastic and disposable consumer products have become in the last 40 years. I hate that everyone is so manipulated into thinking that they need 20 different cheap appliances and products instead of sacrificing and buying a higher quality and longer lasting product.

When it comes to electric vehicles, they are going to be the norm a lot faster than what many of us might imagine. I have no chance at owning a vintage vehicle in my life time. By the time I have the time and money to do something like that, there will probably be a massive carbon tax if not, a complete ban on fossil fuelled personal vehicles.

I am not going to put up a fight when the time comes. If it’s going to safe me money and eventually become really good for the environment as battery tech becomes smaller and more efficient.. than I’m more than happy to embrace the change.

The term “hybrid” comes to mind. I like the idea of having a hybrid home with some really simple and high quality old fashioned tools mixed in with some environmentally friendly and highly efficient tech. I think the last 50 years has shown us as human beings that innovation has it’s costs and benefits.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

LanceT said:


> I can't really argue any facts here, I've done no research but from the expansion of charging stations here in BC, I do know it is a routine trip from the coast to the Okanagan now with stations along the route. I am not sure what you mean by 'enough electrical capacity', are you referring to electrical infrastructure? This is essentially unlimited as far as I can see.


No, sir. The amount of available electricity at any given time is finite. This is why when everyone had their A/C units cranked in the dead of summer it's not uncommon to have rolling blackouts.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Okay Player said:


> No, sir. The amount of available electricity at any given time is finite. This is why when everyone had their A/C units cranked in the dead of summer it's not uncommon to have rolling blackouts.


I can only speak to BC, we did not have any rolling blackouts. Also you are speaking to infrastructure, not available electricity, which is very different.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

LanceT said:


> I can only speak to BC, we did not have any rolling blackouts. Also you are speaking to infrastructure, not available electricity, which is very different.


Fair enough, the point remains. In many place we "don't have enough money" to take care of our current infrastructure.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

mhammer said:


> Well that's just it. Let's say you have a vehicle that *requires* leaded gas. Can one find such fuel anymore? And if you can, could you take that car on any sort of long trip? At some point, finding a gas station may become as difficult as finding leaded gas. Or perhaps diesel fuel will still be available for long-haul truckers, but largely limited to that. Is your beloved classic car, that you worked so hard to keep the body and interior beautiful, simply going to sit in the driveway? Yes, it may be that what made that car so well-loved WAS the thrum of a 400cubic inch V8. So I fully understand the reluctance of someone to turn a gas-tiger into an e-kitten. On the other hand, plenty of classic cars are beloved not so much because of the noise they make or their "pickup power", but because of the design, or quirky features. It's not like they are going to be made anymore, so why not keep them going? What do all those folks who own pre-war classic cars do to keep them alive? I'm pretty certain Model Ts didn't use unleaded gas.
> 
> When I was a kid, my friends and I would read Road & Track, and there were all these fibreglass retrofits that could use a basic VW bug chassis and turn it into Ferrari-inspired sports car. Why not take your beloved sports car and keep it alive electronically?
> 
> Not really any different than converting vinyl to digital form in order to preserve it. Is it *exactly* the same? No. Is it better than not having the music at all? Yes.


Being a car guy, no. Engines can be converted to run unleaded fuel. By replacing valve seats and installing harder steel ones will do the trick. I dont see this idea going far but hey, I've been wrong before (so the wife says lol)


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I love my ICE car. I love the way it accelerates and handles and I LOVE the way the engine (exhaust note) sounds.

It's a fun, exciting car to drive.

But, if I could afford the right Tesla or similar performance electric car, I'd be happy with that. Then again, I'm not a real car enthusiast. There are many purists among those who own old cars and they may ultimately be forced to abandon their gas, but I think that's what it will take for some.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Okay Player said:


> Hydrogen fuel cell is the answer you seek.


I read a book by Jeremy Rifkin, "The Hydrogen Economy" about 15 years ago. A very good book and I believe that it would have been a practical move if we acted on his vision.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Milkman said:


> if I could afford the right Tesla


Even the base Model 3 will slam you into the seat. Not sure the torque and horsepower ratings but adequate for sure.


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## fogdart (Mar 22, 2017)

I see the appeal if you’ve got a classic vehicle that needs a massive restoration. Why not have the performance of an electric motor? Or, maybe you’ve got a cool old vehicle with a whimpy motor and plan on engine swapping anyway. But as an auto enthusiast I’ll NEVER be converting a great old vehicle with a great old motor into an electric vehicle.

Here’s my newly acquired baby. Euro-spec ‘95 M3. Just imported from Japan. The S50B30 motor is a major part of this vehicle. Removing it would be like putting Lace Sensors in an all original ‘57 Strat. Or EMG’s in your all original Burst. The motor is integral to the package all the way down to the smell.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Always12AM said:


> I am not happy with how plastic and disposable consumer products have become in the last 40 years. I hate that everyone is so manipulated into thinking that they need 20 different cheap appliances and products instead of sacrificing and buying a higher quality and longer lasting product.
> 
> When it comes to electric vehicles, they are going to be the norm a lot faster than what many of us might imagine. I have no chance at owning a vintage vehicle in my life time. By the time I have the time and money to do something like that, there will probably be a massive carbon tax if not, a complete ban on fossil fuelled personal vehicles.
> 
> ...


Absolutely onside with the sentiments expressed here. You and I clash sometimes, but here we're on the same page. I wish people were a little less passionate about using up all the resources and transforming it all into disposable garbage, and a little more passionate about saving the planet. I'm all for nice things having their lifespan extended as long as possible. Maybe us guitar players can set an example by valuing vintage stuff, instead of saying "Hmmm, strings broke. Time for a new guitar. Put this one in the dumper."


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

fogdart said:


> I see the appeal if you’ve got a classic vehicle that needs a massive restoration. Why not have the performance of an electric motor? Or, maybe you’ve got a cool old vehicle with a whimpy motor and plan on engine swapping anyway. But as an auto enthusiast I’ll NEVER be converting a great old vehicle with a great old motor into an electric vehicle.
> 
> Here’s my newly acquired baby. Euro-spec ‘95 M3. Just imported from Japan. The S50B30 motor is a major part of this vehicle. Removing it would be like putting Lace Sensors in an all original ‘57 Strat. Or EMG’s in your all original Burst. The motor is integral to the package all the way down to the smell.
> 
> View attachment 382407


Beautiful. 

I was very close to buying one of those in blue about 10 years ago. At the time I was wise not to do it, but hindsight still eats at me.

And yes, I think your analogy is spot on. I wouldn't think it would be a long stretch on a site full of people who despise robo-tuners.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I see the conversions to electric as being mostly showing off ones technical abilities to do it, not as much meeting some pent up demand for electric classic cars. Its a tiny niche.

Im a car guy and youd be surprised how many in my circles lament about even automatic transmissions (lack of availability of manual), and the move to digital/LED gauges/dashboards- they refer to these cars as "driving a video game". Having an electric grocery getter is one thing. An electric sports car/classic car? Time will tell. But I predict I will be too old to care by then.

It has more appeal to people who _aspire_ to owning a sports/classic car (because they look at things practically and value that), not those who actually own them (in reality, we dont give a shit about how practical our cars are, or fuel efficient etc, because its not likely to be your only car. Its about the fun factor and the _feeling/sensory experience_ of them. Theres very little practical about them in any way, and you accept that. Its part of its charm and what makes driving them an _occasion,_ unlike the grocery getter). ask a guy with a Lambo how fuel efficient his car is, and he'll likely roll his eyes at you or shrug not knowing or caring. Its as relevant as meeting Clapton and asking him to play Eruption. We assess our cars on Smiles Per Gallon, not Miles Per Gallon.

Sure there will be some takers for these frankenstein cars, but I dont see a lot of serious demand at this point. Next you'll be telling us what we really want is to be able to fit our family of 4 plus grandparents and dog in our classic/sports car.

I'll be more likely to believe it when Formula-E surpasses F1 in popularity, and Nascar goes electric.


TL/DR- Its funny when people who have never owned classic/sports cars predict what the ones who do, will want in the future.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

The only reasons I can see to do it is "why not" or "giggles." I would start with a non-classic older car.

As for electric cars writ large, get used to the idea, because it is coming. Ford, GM, Chrysler, et al would not be investing billions if they didn't agree.

As electrical products get more efficient, there will be more capacity to charge the cars. It is currently less expensive to charge a car than to buy gasoline. The performace is way better (torque is instantly at its max with electric motors). There are fewer things to break. And with tax incentives, the cars will get cheaper and cheaper (to my understanding, with incevntives in Quebec, it was cheaper to buy a fully electric RAV-4 than to buy the hybrid).

I am a die-hard car guy, and if I could get an affordable electric for my commute (that is, if or when we are back in the office), I would.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Okay Player said:


> Hydrogen fuel cell is the answer you seek.


You bet it is......for those interested, look at Ballard Industries here and the major auto manufacturers in Asia.
Transit systems as well, going H.
Hydrogen will be the choice going forward.
Electric ?A polluting , jump on the bandwagon, stopgap measure.


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## fogdart (Mar 22, 2017)

FatStrat2 said:


> My car is 30 years old and a daily driver. I couldn't give a rat's butt what powers it or what it's worth after any sort of engine conversion. I know its value to me and I'd like to continue to keep this timeless car. But IMO, electric vehicle technology still isn't there yet and not worth the conversion. And the supporting infrastructure still isn't robust enough and probably won't be for many, many years - maybe decades before I trust it all to work reliably - and everywhere around the globe (not just G7 nations).
> 
> Once something worthwhile comes along, like hydrogen power or some type of safe & controlled matter/antimatter engine, I'll keep filling up w/ 94 octane until I'm forced to convert to whatever engine I can get away with (like a perpetual motion power drive).


I need to know what car your daily’ing that’s 30 years old and requires 94?!!? Bet it’s fun!


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

loudtubeamps said:


> You bet it is......for those interested, look at Ballard Industries here and the major auto manufacturers in Asia.
> Transit systems as well, going H.
> Hydrogen will be the choice going forward.
> Electric ?A polluting , jump on the bandwagon, stopgap measure.


I own Ballard stock. I hope you know something I dont, bc it has not been an example of success.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Diablo said:


> We assess our cars on Smiles Per Gallon, not Miles Per Gallon.


My so called classic car gets about one litre per minute on the Mosport GP Track … lol


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

About 80 gallons/minute for a top fueler...if you like the aroma of nitro-methane burning, those NHRA events will do it for you. It will be interesting to see how long the Top Fuel event will last out.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Castrol R mixed with gas 18 to 1 for a 100cc two stroke direct drive motor that will turn 20K rpm. Takes me back to my karting days .. lol


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

mhammer said:


> Absolutely onside with the sentiments expressed here. You and I clash sometimes, but here we're on the same page. I wish people were a little less passionate about using up all the resources and transforming it all into disposable garbage, and a little more passionate about saving the planet. I'm all for nice things having their lifespan extended as long as possible. Maybe us guitar players can set an example by valuing vintage stuff, instead of saying "Hmmm, strings broke. Time for a new guitar. Put this one in the dumper."


My cooperation with elelctic vehicles is surprising to me having grown up worshipping old cars and growing up with mechanics and trades people who very rarely adopt new tech.

When I was 23, one of my idols was a guy who owned a really nice pair of 1950’s Chevy’s and owned a small shop in Mimico. One day I saw him at Walmart pull up in a Hybrid Ford Fusion and was like “why would you drive that”?.. and he said “it’s cheaper and faster and not everyday is a car show.

I love the smell of an old car, I love the smell of gasoline burning and the sound of a big block engine screaming. But if it’s possible for all of us to reduce emissions and increase our own personal safety, than it seems like a worthy pursuit.

If you look at the economy right now, it’s really bad for people my age and what’s worse is how aware we are of what we don’t have as well as how easy it is to forget and be grateful for what we do have. So hopefully you are right in that guitar enthusiasts and enthusiasts of high quality pre plastic industrialism can make it cool to do more with less and to have some type of moral objection to product obsolescence.

Sadly, the people with the poorest diet and lifestyle choices and the highest proclivity for wanting more and more are the people with the least access to education and more importantly generational wisdom and a value for quality. I wouldn’t suggest that we all become Amish, but I really do respect people who put in the time to learn a craft entirely and do it with elbow grease as well as people who look at their body and their environment as something worth valuing and preserving.

Sustainability ought to be the essence of innovation moving forward. Simply because we know better and it doesn’t take one long to do the simple math that if our world population doubles and we all produce a mountain of waste each year, it is going to have a really detrimental effect on our planet and that is not something that we ought to play dumb about.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Diablo said:


> I see the conversions to electric as being mostly showing off ones technical abilities to do it, not as much meeting some pent up demand for electric classic cars. Its a tiny niche.
> 
> Im a car guy and youd be surprised how many in my circles lament about even automatic transmissions (lack of availability of manual), and the move to digital/LED gauges/dashboards- they refer to these cars as "driving a video game". Having an electric grocery getter is one thing. An electric sports car/classic car? Time will tell. But I predict I will be too old to care by then.
> 
> ...


The road test I linked to earlier regarding an MGB with a electric motor did not thrill me with the stats: 0 to 60 in 10 seconds and a top speed of 82 mph. Very limited range too.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

allthumbs56 said:


> The road test I linked to earlier regarding an MGB with a electric motor did not thrill me with the stats: 0 to 60 in 10 seconds and a top speed of 82 mph. Very limited range too.


Keep in mind that in a future with autonomous vehicles, pedal-to-the-metal will be a rarer occurrence since the "good judgment" of such supposedly intelligent vehicles is partly contingent on information arriving at a modest rate. No autonomous car is going to be quickly adapting to someone who feels that 120kph is just too damn slow and wants to pass and cut back in front.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Keep in mind that in a future with autonomous vehicles, pedal-to-the-metal will be a rarer occurrence since the "good judgment" of such supposedly intelligent vehicles is partly contingent on information arriving at a modest rate. No autonomous car is going to be quickly adapting to someone who feels that 120kph is just too damn slow and wants to pass and cut back in front.


My remarks were more centered toward how everybody believes all electric cars outperform all ICE cars. 

In 1963 when the MGB first appeared it was hailed as a "true 100 mph sports car". Stock, with the low-compression engine I think my B was spec'd at doing 0 - 60 in 12.2 seconds. Not a barn-burner but with some slight mods and tuning you could get under 10 seconds no problem. I expected better numbers from the electric version, is all.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

If we get to the point of autonomous vehicles (not likely in my lifetime, IMO), all of this discussion will be moot. Who will care what it looks like, or the performance of it etc? It will have more in common with mass transportation than what we currently think of as cars. To a car lover, its Orwellian.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

allthumbs56 said:


> The road test I linked to earlier regarding an MGB with a electric motor did not thrill me with the stats: 0 to 60 in 10 seconds and a top speed of 82 mph. Very limited range too.


Faster than the original!!


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

LanceT said:


> Faster than the original!!


Not even close in top speed. You don't have to mod much to get the 0 - 60 better - header/exhaust, electronic distributor, lose the air pump and gulp valve and you're there. 

But the MGB was all about near-perfect front/rear weight distribution. Putting the battery up front and the engine in back - I don't know how that affects things.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i have nothing against evs as a concept. the parts that bug me are planned obsolescence, and lack of right to repair laws. some of you may not remember that last year when the hurricane hit florida, many tesla owners found they suddenly had performance and range they didn't have previously. it was "unlocked" remotely by tesla so that people could evacuate. if you were able to modify and repair the car yourself, you could also unlock those features yourself. as it stands, you cannot do that now, without buying a different model. i have no argument against tesla for having performance tiered with price. one gets what they pay for, and that's fair. but if i buy a gasoline car, i can upgrade it myself, at a pace that meets my budget and time constraints. you can't do that with an electric car, afaik. i want what i buy to belong fully to me. i do not like "licensed" products, the way software is. that's a bullshit practice.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

allthumbs56 said:


> My remarks were more centered toward how everybody believes all electric cars outperform all ICE cars.
> 
> In 1963 when the MGB first appeared it was hailed as a "true 100 mph sports car". Stock, with the low-compression engine I think my B was spec'd at doing 0 - 60 in 12.2 seconds. Not a barn-burner but with some slight mods and tuning you could get under 10 seconds no problem. I expected better numbers from the electric version, is all.


MGBs are *wonderful* cars. One of the best things about them is that they are low to the ground, making pretty much all speeds *feel* faster than they would if 2ft higher up in an SUV. I'm guessing that, on a per capita basis, there are considerably more rollovers in SUVs than there are in MGBs. I mean, yes, the MGBs have a lower center-of-gravity, which helps, and there aren't quite as many of them, but when you sit higher up everything feels slower than it really is, leading to more chance-taking.

A former co-worker belongs to an MGB-owners club in Ottawa, and they will sometimes do group long-distance trips.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> i have nothing against evs as a concept. the parts that bug me are planned obsolescence, and lack of right to repair laws. some of you may not remember that last year when the hurricane hit florida, many tesla owners found they suddenly had performance and range they didn't have previously. it was "unlocked" remotely by tesla so that people could evacuate. if you were able to modify and repair the car yourself, you could also unlock those features yourself. as it stands, you cannot do that now, without buying a different model. i have no argument against tesla for having performance tiered with price. one gets what they pay for, and that's fair. but if i buy a gasoline car, i can upgrade it myself, at a pace that meets my budget and time constraints. you can't do that with an electric car, afaik. i want what i buy to belong fully to me. i do not like "licensed" products, the way software is. that's a bullshit practice.


Right-to-repair ought to be codified by the U.N.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> The road test I linked to earlier regarding an MGB with a electric motor did not thrill me with the stats: 0 to 60 in 10 seconds and a top speed of 82 mph. Very limited range too.


Lucus electrics ?


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

mhammer said:


> Right-to-repair ought to be codified by the U.N.


while i understand what you're trying to say, and agree that right-to-repair should be a law, i hate the useless u.n. 
if it were up to me (to your surprise, i tell you it's not) america would withdraw from the u.n.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Right to repair is a pretty hot issue with farmers that own new equipment. They are getting the crap-end of the stick from everybody.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> while i understand what you're trying to say, and agree that right-to-repair should be a law, i hate the useless u.n.
> if it were up to me (to your surprise, i tell you it's not) america would withdraw from the u.n.


I'll leave that alone because it skates too close to politics. But yeah, right-to-repair IS a right, or ought to be.

On the original topic of the thread, I just finished a 6hr drive (about 350miles) in my diesel VW Golf, and used only a bit more than 5/8 of a tank. My last vehicle (non-diesel) would have required a fill-up halfway through this trip. I look forward to e-vehicles having a similar usable range.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

A bit of a tangent, but I take my summer car off the road for the season today. I could drive it for another month really, but as my insurance is renewed every six months in October and April it's a convenient time to revert to basic fire and theft on the Infiniti. Anyway, once things get to 8 deg C or lower, there's less traction and it becomes less fun (hard to hook up).

I'm always a bit sad to do it, but this car has never been driven in winter and has only around 60k miles on it. I keep the carbon burned out of it, but I don't abuse it at all.

This winter I'll drive it onto a tarp. wrap that around the sides and partially over the top, then cover the top with a winter cover. I hook up a winter battery charger and condition the gas, put a little steel wool in the tailpipes to keep the mice out (just in case).

That's how I've done it and it comes out smelling fresh as a daisy in spring and starts up like I used it the night before.


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

Sneaky said:


> The Neil Young car fire incident.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There have been numerous incidents with the batteries in electric cars catching fire and in some cases causing accidents and deaths. I'll wait until they perfect the technology before shelling out the dough for an electric car. I think we are decades away before shelving both modern and classic cars driven by gas internal combustion engines.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Gas/oil etc will be around for a couple of generations still. Oil oligarchs and the gov'ts that they control will not allow it to sit in the ground.
Except up here, of course.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

My stock in trade involves wrecked cars and I see some gooduns. My conclusion is to hell with fuel economy and the environment and to hell with pedantic academic windbags who couldn't change a light bulb trying to tell you how to live. Drive the biggest vehicle you can afford; something like a full size pickup - ever wonder why they cost less to insure than a civic. As for electric, they burn real good once they get going so be like a chair execution before we had leathal injection.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Wardo said:


> My stock in trade involves wrecked cars and I see some gooduns. My conclusion is to hell with fuel economy and the environment and to hell with pedantic academic windbags who couldn't change a light bulb trying to tell you how to live. Drive the biggest vehicle you can afford; something like a full size pickup - ever wonder why they cost less to insure than a civic. As for electric, they burn real good once they get going so be like a chair execution before we had leathal injection.


Which is pretty much how we got to where we are. Especially when that attitude is typical of CEOs, boards of directors, elected officials, and hedge-fund managers.

That's the thing about leaving social responsibility to "others". It doesn't work any better than getting into one's car pissed drunk and assuming *other* people are going to drive vigilantly, carefully, and defensively enough that you don't end up in a collision.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

... lmao


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

well, the best answer to all this is...

45 mpg for $10,500









$16,500 42 mpg


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Jeezuz, that's what those things cost ?



cheezyridr said:


> $16,500 42 mpg


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Wardo said:


> Jeezuz, that's what those things cost ?


yes, that's msrp right off the honda website. it does sem like alot, but think about this - that's an RR. _one of_ the best sportbikes money can buy. for 16k you get a machine that will out run nearly any car out there, and will out corner almost anything besides an F35. by comparison, a new heritage classic starts at $19k and the only bikes out there more low tech than a harley is an enfield


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Here’s an old Humvee that’s been refitted with twin Tesla motors by a local guy. Pic taken this morning under the northern lights.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Sneaky said:


> Here’s an old Humvee that’s been refitted with twin Tesla motors by a local guy. Pic taken this morning under the northern lights.


GM is introducing al all electric hummer and it looks very bad assed. Performance wise it's there.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Milkman said:


> GM is introducing al all electric hummer and it looks very bad assed. Performance wise it's there.


The guy has about $400k into this, $250k for parts alone. He is a self proclaimed mad scientist. He’s currently putting one of the new Ford Mach E electric motors into this...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

With the relative quiet of electric motors, I imagine it can be quite unsettling to have one of those beasts sneak up on you. "Where the hell did *THAT* come from?"


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

mhammer said:


> With the relative quiet of electric motors, I imagine it can be quite unsettling to have one of those beasts sneak up on you. "Where the hell did *THAT* come from?"


Most cars are so quiet these days. You hear the tires more than the engine.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Blind people have complained heavily about electric cars, how they have to listen intently for the tire crunch on the road.

But frankly, I care much less about emissions when I heard that the Eyjafjallajökull eruption in Iceland in 2010 put back worldwide emission efforts by 50 years. You're hard pressed to find that fact anymore.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

One thing that hasn't been talked about in the electric infrastructure is, how will black/brown outs be avoided?
Or keep power plants safe from hackers?
Could one big solar burst from the sun leave the world stranded?

I'm gonna find me a horse .. just about this big.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Just you and the pygmy pony, eh?

I think the general answer to your question is investment in multiple forms of energy-generation. I.E., not relying on a single source, such that there is always a backup. We already do that. It's a matter of shifting from this set to that one.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Don't forget the Zircon-encrusted tweezers for your fuel rods.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

mhammer said:


> Just you and the pygmy pony, eh?





Paul Running said:


> Don't forget the Zircon-encrusted tweezers


Yup. Yippy-Ty-O-Ty-Ay (in Bruce Willis' voice).


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

If mankind chose to forego the concept of 'everything must be profit driven', then maybe Nikola Tesla's 'Radiant Energy' could be made to work?


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

FatStrat2 said:


> Blind people have complained heavily about electric cars, how they have to listen intently for the tire crunch on the road.
> 
> But frankly, I care much less about emissions when I heard that the Eyjafjallajökull eruption in Iceland in 2010 put back worldwide emission efforts by 50 years. You're hard pressed to find that fact anymore.


Don’t tell Greta.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Where I work, as part of a "green" initiative they ordered 16 electric vehicles. They aren't street legal, just run-abouts for use on a large industrial plant site. They cost approx. the same as the new F150 crewcab pickups we buy. Half the size, with about 400lb cargo capacity, all aluminum, lithium batteries, 80 volt systems.

Really cute, fun to bomb around in, but don't be driving for much of your 10 hour work day, cause they won't make a full day on a full charge.

And if the temperature is below 10C, they better be plugged in all the time. Because there is a battery warmer system that kicks in to keep the batteries warm enough to function. What happens when these vehicles are not plugged in below 10C? The batteries power the warmer system and kill themselves dead in less than 24 hours. Good thing is they push easy. Push them inside, plug them in, wait about 4 hours while the warmer warms the batteries, then and only then, the charger will start charging. Don't try and put more than one vehicle on a 15 amp breaker either, cause they pop it real quick. Down time? Full day.
That's our future.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Midnight Rider said:


> Crate electric motor also available as per Ford's announcement. Seems strange that companies and governments want to push these electric vehicles onto the public but they have no grand master plan to build the infrastructure of quick reliable charging stations nationwide prior to doing so. Perhaps they should focus on changing over our large and highly populated cities to electric only vehicles first where it will have the biggest large scale impact for increasing the air quality along with noise pollution issues.
> 
> Once they have established that phase they can concentrate on building the infrastructure needed to make travelling long distances across this large country without having to worry about running out of juice in the middle of nowhere without any charging stations in sight.
> 
> ...


Here is the crate motor. Price doesn’t seem unreasonable.

SEMA 2021 - Ford Performance Parts


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Zappa would be a great name for an electric vehicle. 

Pigmy Pony, not so much.


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

mhammer said:


> Just you and the pygmy pony, eh?
> 
> I think the general answer to your question is investment in multiple forms of energy-generation. I.E., not relying on a single source, such that there is always a backup. We already do that. It's a matter of shifting from this set to that one.


When the sun doesn't shine,(that never happens in Ontario, eh,...), and the winds don't blow,... then the energy don't flow. No way to store that massive volume of electrical energy generation into batteries,... use it or lose it. What has it been now, 15-20 years since the construction of the thousands of wind turbines across Ontario?,... still haven't experienced the promised savings on my hydro bill,... fairly confident no one else has either.

Large rivers always flow the turbines always roll and the nuclear plants always glow.

Currently in the process of planning the construction of a log home which will be outfitted with solar panels with small wind powered generator and battery storage along with and outside wood burning furnace and full house generator. Filtration system for water drawn from the lake and a septic field,... maybe an electric horse if they have the technology down for reliability. 

Three to five year plan,... then I will give the double barrel middle finger salute to the utility companies.


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

Paul Running said:


> Don't forget the Zircon-encrusted tweezers for your fuel rods.


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

Sneaky said:


> Here is the crate motor. Price doesn’t seem unreasonable.
> 
> SEMA 2021 - Ford Performance Parts


At $3,900 US,... not unreasonable at all but it does not include the traction inverter, control system or battery,... and who knows what other components would be required to convert the average gas driven vehicle to electric. Would be interesting to find out the total cost of the makeover.

*ABOUT THIS PRODUCT*
Ford Performance Parts is proud to offer the Eluminator This electric motor is from the 2021 Mustang Mach E GT. 

Peak power: 210kW (281hp)
Peak torque: 430Nm (317 lb.-ft.)
Max speed: 13,800rpm
Gear ratio: 9.05:1
Weight: 93kg / 205 lbs
Includes: 

HV motor to traction inverter harness
LV harness/connector
Vent tube assembly.
Does NOT include:

Traction inverter
Control system
Battery


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Of course, they list the battery last like it's some $2 flashlight battery - typical.


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

I’m a pre-war car guy. I own 2 1938 cars with flathead (inefficient) engines. I’d like to share that Chrysler engineers started installing hardened exhaust valve seats in all their engines in the early 1930’s. So leaded fuel has not been needed. My 1938 Chrysler engines run just fine still today.

I’m actually currently rebuilding one of the engines right here in my garage at home. I’ll share a few pics to give you some insight on my perspective.

Lately I am starting to feel that we are being forced into electric cars. Fossil fuel taxes will continue to soar. You may be able to get gas or diesel in 10 years but kids, you’re gonna pay. Dearly.

If and when it gets to that point where gas is unobtanium, I’d consider an electric conversion for my pre-war cars. That may take a long time though. If it costs me $50 in gas to drive 5 miles, oh well. I’m just driving my old cars less, staying closer to home, or giving up some other less enjoyable thing in my life. I love my old cars, yet if I can no longer get fuel I’ll consider an EV conversion.

These days I put about 2,000 km per year total combined between my two old cars. How much pollution am I really making? Does it really matter?
My cars enrich my life and the lives of many others. It’s hard to drive anywhere with getting less than 25 waves, smiles, thumbs-up, and strangers approaching. My favourite stop has got to be the gas station. People all come to see the car and ask questions. Its fun. Its social. It gets people off their iphones. Talking. Lol. Its all a good scene.


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## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

That $3900 Ford electric motor sold out in one week. First batch is gone.

I am sticking with original components with my classic ride, as much as feasible.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Just you and the pygmy pony, eh?
> 
> I think the general answer to your question is investment in multiple forms of energy-generation. I.E., not relying on a single source, such that there is always a backup. We already do that. It's a matter of shifting from this set to that one.


I follow the same principle in my home. Electricity has been known to fail so I'm happy having some things powered by fossil fuels - propane BBQ and an old camp stove so we can always cook something, gas fireplace so we can always get some heat in the house, cars with ICE so we can always get away if need be. 👍


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