# Let's talk soundproofing



## Peter (Mar 25, 2008)

Hey all,

A buddy and I are planning on converting his 2nd bedroom into a jam room in a month or so. Here's the plan.

We're looking to do a little bit of soundproofing, even though it's not entirely necessary just to give the neighbours a bit more peace of mind.

We're looking for something cheap, that we can hopefully hang on the walls and ceiling that will deaden the sound.

I know nothing about sound proofing, educate me!

:rockon:


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## Peter (Mar 25, 2008)

Hmmm, hanging egg cartons on the walls you say? :food-smiley-004:


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## Jampy (Mar 27, 2008)

Would the bad way be stapling a bunch of Tim Horton coffee trays on the wall??

I joke, I joke..

Great topic...BTW, looking forward to reading more.


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

Go to a used store - like Value Village, The Slavation Army - those sort of places and pick up as many electric blankets as you can find. Hang them so that they do not touch the walls (leave an inch or so behind them) and drape them over the ceiling.

I hang these behind the backdrops on really bad stages. They work wonders at preventing things like snare drums and cymbols from tearing your head off, and tightening things up. They will reduce the noise, but they won't stop it. Inside the room will sound much better though and you won't need to push as much power to get the same precieved volume.

BTW, you don't need to plug in the blankets, the electric ones are just more flame retardent that the normal ones and the elements inside of them make them hang well.


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## Peter (Mar 25, 2008)

Hamm Guitars said:


> Go to a used store - like Value Village, The Slavation Army - those sort of places and pick up as many electric blankets as you can find. Hang them so that they do not touch the walls (leave an inch or so behind them) and drape them over the ceiling.
> 
> I hang these behind the backdrops on really bad stages. They work wonders at preventing things like snare drums and cymbols from tearing your head off, and tightening things up. They will reduce the noise, but they won't stop it. Inside the room will sound much better though and you won't need to push as much power to get the same precieved volume.
> 
> BTW, you don't need to plug in the blankets, the electric ones are just more flame retardent that the normal ones and the elements inside of them make them hang well.


This is more along the lines of what I had pictured in my head.

We need something that will block the sound outside the room and the rest of the apartment (yes, it's an apartment :food-smiley-004: ). Inside the room, we play loud rock music with a Yamaha electronic drum kit so we can dial the drums in so sound inside isn't really as much of a priority as deadening outside.

I find it hard to believe that no company makes a product that you can just put on the walls? Am I way off here?


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Hamm Guitars said:


> Go to a used store - like Value Village, The Slavation Army - those sort of places and pick up as many electric blankets as you can find. Hang them so that they do not touch the walls (leave an inch or so behind them) and drape them over the ceiling.
> 
> I hang these behind the backdrops on really bad stages. They work wonders at preventing things like snare drums and cymbols from tearing your head off, and tightening things up. They will reduce the noise, but they won't stop it. Inside the room will sound much better though and you won't need to push as much power to get the same precieved volume.
> 
> BTW, you don't need to plug in the blankets, the electric ones are just more flame retardent that the normal ones and the elements inside of them make them hang well.


A friend of mine--when he first moved out of his parents' house covered one of the bedrooms in his new place with the old square egg cartoons & foam--not just random here & there--but completely covered--it worked great. If you stood in the doorway and faced into the room you could hear the drums and guitar quite well, and if you faced out of the room--you could hear them--but it wasn't overpowering.

Later we were roommates in a different house and we hung blankets from the beams in the basement--and one wall had the egg cartons--it worked well.

But the blankets worked best.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

The drums didn't overpower everything, and his landlord, who lived next door--in a house you could touch by sticking your arm out the window--never complained about the noise.

And your ears were not in the same place--you hear better in front of you than behind you--so that was part of it--but it was better after he did the walls.

But the basement in the other house was much better.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

The biggest issue with "soundproofing" a room is with the low frequencies. In my experience, that is the hardest to contain and probably the thing that most neighbours complain about. It's the constant "pounding" that gets to people. I remember my neighbour's kid saying all she could hear was the "dug dug dug" and I live in single home and there is a 5 meter space in between our houses.


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

Maybe I wasn't too clear on the electric blanket idea. What it essentially does in stop reflections in the room and makes the room almost totally dead. This allows you to jam at a quiter overall volume providing that everyone can 'mix themselves' and not try to overpower one another. If the volume wars start, there is not much that is going to stop it short of a power failure.

If you are jamming in an apartment, I think you can expect a visit from the landlord, and maybe the cops no matter what you do. It's just not a good idea.

For the price and agravation that you would go through, I think you would be much better off renting a practice studio. They provide everything you need and sound proofing isn't your problem. $15/hr between three or more guys is nothing really when you think about it.


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## Guest (Apr 3, 2008)

Chito said:


> The biggest issue with "soundproofing" a room is with the low frequencies. In my experience, that is the hardest to contain and probably the thing that most neighbours complain about. It's the constant "pounding" that gets to people. I remember my neighbour's kid saying all she could hear was the "dug dug dug" and I live in single home and there is a 5 meter space in between our houses.


Dude! You're killing me. We're shopping for a place in your neighbourhood right now and I was thinking the lot spacing would mean I could get the band thing happening in the basement without a lot of bad vibes with the neighbours. Is it only when they're outside? Or can the hear it inside their house?


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

Back in the early nineties I had a house gig (as a soundman) at a place called Gliders in the west end of Hamilton.

The club sat on a bit of a hill and there was/is an apartment building accross the four lane street. There is also a bit of parking space and another hill between the bar and the apartment building.

Anyway, we used to get noise complaints from an old codger that lived in the apartment building, and he would call the cops. The cops would show up and spoke with me and agreed that the club wasn't excessively loud. They would show up almost every night for the first few weeks to keep the old guy happy.

One day, the cop came up to me and asked if I could go over to the old guys apartment to see what was going on. I had someone sit on the mix for first set (the quietest set) and went over. For reasons that we never figured out, that poor old mans apartment was just hopping - you couldn't make out any music, but you could feel the pounding of the kick drum and his windows were rattling with any other subsonic frequencies. His dishes were shaking in the shelves.

I called over and spoke with the bar owner and had him let me know when the band stopped between songs - the apartment stopped shaking at the same time that the band stopped playing.

The police knocked on a few of the neighbors doors, and they were not experiencing the same issue, just this one guy. 

As I said, the reason why this happened was never solved. This was a major factor in why the club closed a short time later.

The club has since re-opened a few times, and I'm sure that the old guy is long gone by now. Someone living in that apartment is probably trying to figure out where these vibrations are comming from.

Somewhat related to the OP, but just wierd.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

maybe the cheapest way to go would be to build a soundproof booth - there is no way to cheaply soundproof a room, let alone one in an apartment. a booth, the size of a closet, would still cost a few bucks, but be far cheaper than building a whole room inside the room- mic your amps in it, do vocal tracks in it etc. wont be right acoustically, but you can work with it in your software. id either do that, or go with the modelling suggestion.
i did have some success with the metal door to my apartment by weatherstripping and caulking the hell out of it, then applying several layers of shag carpet to it. i also hang all my jackets and stuff on it. im still audible in the hallways, just not so much.:smile:


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

jroberts said:


> The human ear is essentially omnidirectional, subject to the baffling of your head and the outer portion of your ears. Your head is always in the middle no matter which way you are facing. Only the outer portion of your ear changes orientation as you change directions. I hazard to say that putting a tiny bit of cartilage and skin between yourself and a rock drummer will make no appreciable difference to perceived loudness.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry to harp on you about this, but the egg-carton myth is one of the most common and persistant myths about studio design and acoustics. People want to believe it because it's easy and cheap. The end result is hundreds of basements and garages out there with loads of flammable material stapled to their walls, which accomplishes nothing other than making the rooms sound like poo.


I never said it was soundproof--just that it helped.
And it did make a difference which way you faced.
Maybe my ears stick out more than yours, but I've played in bands where a simple turn of the head greatly affected how I could hear myself & the other musicians.

I also didn't think I implied it was an optimal solution, just that it wasn't as bad as some of you think. I did say the basement was better with the blankets.

Another room I used to practice in had paneling and a flat finish ceiling and all you heard was the drum set. If you stepped out into the hall you could here a great mix of the instruments. So I used to stand in the hallway & the amps were in the room. Not the best solution in that case, but it worked. Later we got a larger room, and it was much better. (We just made sure the drums weren't near the window.)


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## Peter (Mar 25, 2008)

Hamm Guitars said:


> If you are jamming in an apartment, I think you can expect a visit from the landlord, and maybe the cops no matter what you do. It's just not a good idea.
> 
> For the price and agravation that you would go through, I think you would be much better off renting a practice studio. They provide everything you need and sound proofing isn't your problem. $15/hr between three or more guys is nothing really when you think about it.


Believe it or not we are coming up on 1 year jamming in an apartment. I think it's just a perfect storm of manageable volume levels with the e-drums, sensible playing times, and great neighbours (the one upstairs from us actually went out and bought a guitar and amp and started to learn after hearing us for so long!) but we would like to safeguard against potential incidents.

On the other hand you do make a very convincing argument for the practice space though too.

So out of everything mentioned here so far, what's our best bet for deadening the lows outside of the room where the magic happens (if any)?


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

You keep looking for a magical solution despite what everyone keeps repeating: there is no cheap way of soundproofing. Jroberts has done a good job of dispelling some silly myths. Also, although heavy blankets may help deaden the room and reduce _a bit_ of volume, it really won't accomplish what you need.

Seriously, why not just rent a rehearsal space and be done with it. If I tried to jam in my apartment it would be over really quickly. If you are really singing, at times you are essentially yelling. Amps and e-drums can be turned down, but the human voice requires power and volume to sing certain passages.

TG


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> You keep looking for a magical solution despite what everyone keeps repeating: there is no cheap way of soundproofing. Jroberts has done a good job of dispelling some silly myths. Also, although heavy blankets may help deaden the room and reduce _a bite_ of volume, it really won't accomplish what you need.
> 
> Seriously, why not just rent a rehearsal space and be done with it. If I tried to jam in my apartment it would be over really quickly. If you are really singing, at times you are essentially yelling. Amps and e-drums can be turned down, but the human voice requires power and volume to sing certain passages.
> 
> TG


TG is right, and jroberts is ABSOLUTELY right!

The fact that you are poor or don't have a lot of energy to put into the work doesn't matter. The Universe doesn't care how you feel about things. It works the way she works.

Now, you can do it for real or you can keep dinking around. The choice is yours!:smile:

:food-smiley-004:


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## Peter (Mar 25, 2008)

Solid advice guys, guess we'll start looking at rehersal spaces in the Vancouver area in the next few weeks.

Thanks everyone who contributed to the discussion!

:rockon:


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Dude! You're killing me. We're shopping for a place in your neighbourhood right now and I was thinking the lot spacing would mean I could get the band thing happening in the basement without a lot of bad vibes with the neighbours. Is it only when they're outside? Or can the hear it inside their house?


Sorry, I didnt see this earlier Ian. Anyway, they claim to hear it inside their house. But I don't think that it is loud enough to really bother them, just like JRoberts said. Actually this neighbour is just being a pain in the @ss. None of my other neighbours ever complain. You can hear us playing from the outside if you get close enough to the house but we've had bylaw officers come to my house and they can't even hear us until they get to the door. I also bought a decibel meter and I showed it to one of the bylaw officers when they came over (she didn't have one hahaha) and I told her, "Look, we do monitor our sound levels and from what I can see, we're below 55db." Since then they have not come over. The officer also told me they have called over 20 times, sometimes when we were not even home. I think any noise they hear now they attribute to us.

Anyway, bottomline, it really depends on your neighbours. Most people don't complain. A couple of my close neighbours have even gone to some of our gigs.


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