# Scale boxes



## snowgoon (Aug 23, 2008)

Hey guys. I know the 5 basic positions for scales for soloing. I am trying to learn how to switch boxes and move up the fretboard. Like starting on open strings, then finishing my solo up past the 12th fret. Is there a logic to this? It doesn't seem to make sense to me.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Which scale(s) did you learn? ....Petatonic?

You should be able to progress up/down the neck easily between the scale boxes/patterns and it should sound fine (for the most part) given that you are the correct key.

My theory isn't very strong...consider this a bump.

Others are certainly going to ask you for more information about the scales you learned.

Cheers

Dave


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

I too use the "box" technique - i.e. memorize the patterns of each position of each scale.....where you play it on the neck - and which notes you chose out of the pattern and which root you chose ....whether you focus on major or minor type sounds...is somewhat tied to where you are in the song...i.e. - what fits for the chords and the chord progression you are playing over......I cannot explain it technically - ....but I have seen it explained technically in this forum before somewhere......

when I start a lead - I typically start in the scale position that roots on the 6th string (i.e. Fret 3 on the 6th string for "G" minor pentatonic)....merely because that's what I'm comfortable with...then I move up and down the neck away and back to that position.....but that's just my playing style - yours may turn out to be different

i.e. - Clapton's "Cocaine" is in the key of E.......in yer basic soloing techniques - E minor pentatonic seems to work best played over the 2 chords (E5 and D5) that the majority of the song repeats.....so - you chose which box (position) you want to play notes from depending on the feel you want to create.....it's a personal thing, but takes practice to find just that right note to punctuate on....you have to play in concert with the chord progressions...i.e. pay attention to where the chords are and where they're going to sound good....


additionally, it might make a better sound if a song is in ...say the Key of "G" (Major) .....to not necessarily use the major scale or major pentatoic scale rooted in G - but instead jump to G's relative minor - "E".....and play E minor pentatonic or full E minor over the chords - noting that the note you punctuate on would be different if the song was in the key of E Minor

I also tend to employ the Call and response method quite a bit....bring it up.....bring it down......practice man.......takes practice


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2009)

I found the best way to break out of "box" mode was to stop learning things horizontally across the neck in three-note-per-string groupings. It's good for your understanding of guitar to be able to visualize where notes are occuring on the next, not just patterns and shapes for scales.

So what do I recommend?

Start by extending the size of the box you're comfortable in. Try 4-note-per-string boxes. This'll get you up and down the neck as well as across and quickly expands your access to octaves. When you're feeling good with 4-note-per-string boxes up the count by 1. Rinse. Repeat.

And try running a scale on just one string. Helpful to see the tone relationships between the different positions in a scale.

Now try running the scale but skip a string (you have to start >= 5th fret on low E for this to work well). This'll help you learn different positions for like notes. And it's good for picking accuracy.

Don't forget to go low -> high and high -> low. I actually start my exercises descending because I find clean pull offs with even attack more challenging. Just me and my quirks though, so tune your practice to your needs.

Hope that helps!


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

What I suggested on another forum to provide variety in playing scales. The payoff is in soloing...

Triplets, tremolo, vibrato, bends, slides, hammer-ons, pull-offs, tapping, or whatever combination of articulation device.

Rhythmic changes from swing to eternity...

Play every scale at every fret or position possible.

Eyes closed or looking away.

Add dynamics.

One note per string, two notes per string, three notes per string, four notes per string, five...

Chord, octave, and dyad scales.

Flatpicked, fingerpicked.

Don't forget the various modes, and exotic scales.

Say the note names out loud as you play.

Peace, Mooh.


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## snowgoon (Aug 23, 2008)

The thing is, how do you move horizontally across the fret board with these boxes?


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2009)

snowgoon said:


> The thing is, how do you move horizontally across the fret board with these boxes?


You're not playing boxes. You're playing the notes in the scale. So find the same scale tones but up and down one string.

Lets take A Major on your low E string:

1 A - 5th fret
2 B - 7th fret
maj3 C# - 9th fret
4 D - 10th fret
5 E - 12th fret
6 F# - 14th fret
7 G - 16th fret
1 A - 17th fret
2 B - 19th fret
maj3 C# - 21st fret
4 D - 22nd fret
5 E - 24th fret

Stop thinking about _shapes_, start thinking about notes in the scale and their relationship to one another.

If I asked you to play A Major from low to high E starting on the root of the scale and using 4 notes per string what would you play? Write it out.


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## snowgoon (Aug 23, 2008)

A B C# D E F# G# A

e--16 17
B--14 15 17 19
G--11 13 14 16
D--9 11 12 14
A--7 9 11 12
E--5 7 9 10

i cut the last string short to end on an A.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2009)

Nice. You even caught my mistake.  Not G, G#.

Does that make sense now?


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## snowgoon (Aug 23, 2008)

It makes a little more sense. Is that all there is to it? Where does the whole box thing come in?


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

snowgoon said:


> It makes a little more sense. Is that all there is to it? Where does the whole box thing come in?


the box thing comes in when you need the shape of the boxes to guide you - i.e when you don't just inherently know the next note by name ....you need a shape or a pattern to guide you....it's for people like me who don't inherently know where that next note is anywhere on the fretboard by name....

when you get to that point - you won't need the boxes anymore

one might say - ignore the boxes - learn properly from the start.....but for me....startin out as an old guy - I just wanted to play some tunes


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

lbrown1 said:


> one might say - ignore the boxes - learn properly from the start.....but for me....startin out as an old guy - I just wanted to play some tunes


So true, so true :bow: 

B. B. King is what...82 or 83 years old now ?...I rationalize that I still have time to catch up to him. (kqoct)

BTW...he even has a box named after him.

Cheers

Dave


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