# Selling Used Car Question



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Was just reading up on how not to get scammed when selling a car and the info from these sites seems to conflict with each other.

One site says not to release the car until the certified cheque has cleared as it could be fake, the other says as the buyer, don't pay until the vehicle is in your possession.

Rock and a hard place?

As the seller when do you hand over the keys? Once the certified cheque (if that's how they pay) is in your hand or once it's cleared?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Cash is king.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Cash is archaic and I really hope someone doesn't pay with it. I don't even remember the last year I regularly carried cash on me.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

I bought a car with $100 bills - 146 of them. When I pulled it out of my pocket, the seller became far more motivated to lower his price to what I was offering.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Guncho said:


> Cash is archaic and I really hope someone doesn't pay with it. I don't even remember the last year I regularly carried cash on me.


I would consider an EMT as good as cash. As soon as you receive the EMT hand the keys over.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I haven't sold a car privately in years. The last was the 62' Jag MKII I inherited from my parents. The guy that bought it paid in cash. and I signed the back of the ownership and off he went.

When I was younger my dad always insisted that you accompany the buyer to the MTO to witness the change of registration. If something happens and that vehicle is still registered to you you are liable. 

To answer your question though, a certified cheque would be enough for me to release the vehicle.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

guitarman2 said:


> I would consider an EMT as good as cash. As soon as you receive the EMT hand the keys over.


The problem with that is most people can't send more than $3k a day via EMT.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Guncho said:


> The problem with that is most people can't send more than $3k a day via EMT.



Yes that could be a problem. However I'm pretty sure you can prearrange with a bank for transferring amounts over the limits.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

guitarman2 said:


> Yes that could be a problem. However I'm pretty sure you can prearrange with a bank for transferring amounts over the limits.


Yeah that rings a bell. We recently bought a new vehicle and explored all our options for transferring the money to a dealership and in the end, certified cheque was our only option.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Also I just have to say, what is up with people asking if my asking price is the my best price? It's the best price for me!


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Guncho said:


> Also I just have to say, what is up with people asking if my asking price is the my best price? It's the best price for me!



Nothing wrong with someone seeking a lower price, although whenever I see "What is your best price" I think scam as a lot of the scam texts\emails start that way. It makes more sense to say "will you take x dollars". And usually after seeing the item first.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Yeah that's how it normally works. The seller posts an asking price and people are free to pay that or make a lower offer. Why would I drop my price without an offer?


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Guncho said:


> Also I just have to say, what is up with people asking if my asking price is the my best price? It's the best price for me!


I always ask 'is your asking price flexible?'.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

laristotle said:


> I always ask 'is your asking price flexible?'.


If the ad doesn't say, "Price is firm" I think that is assumed. My response would be, "make me an offer".


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Guncho said:


> If the ad doesn't say, "Price is firm" I think that is assumed. My response would be, "make me an offer".


I've only had that response once. 
Most times, the seller would counter with what they'll accept. 
A few times, the counter was lower than what I was ready to pay.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

IME, anyone who sends a "what's your best price" inquiry _without_ any preamble is NOT a serious buyer. Save your responses for those who are clearly interested in further dialogue.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

laristotle said:


> I've only had that response once.
> Most times, the seller would counter with what they'll accept.
> A few times, the counter was lower than what I was ready to pay.


Kijiji user: Is your price flexible?
Me: Yes, I will accept more.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Guncho said:


> Yeah that's how it normally works. The seller posts an asking price and people are free to pay that or make a lower offer. Why would I drop my price without an offer?


I detest haggling. If I’m serious, I‘ll ask, “What is your best price?”


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Hammerhands said:


> I detest haggling. If I’m serious, I‘ll ask, “What is your best price?”


With or without "foreplay"?


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Hammerhands said:


> I detest haggling. If I’m serious, I‘ll ask, “What is your best price?”


Personally I would never offer a lower price if someone asked me that.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Guncho said:


> Personally I would never offer a lower price if someone asked me that.


That’s ok, don’t feel bad, I don‘t ever really need to buy anything.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Someone just offered me a little over half of what I'm asking because, "They have to drive from Oshawa". 

LIKE I CARE!


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

This reminds of when I bought my last car used privately, you could tell they were shell shocked from all the crazy people on Kijiji. You could see it in their eyes and hear it in their voices. They were just waiting for me to say or do something crazy.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Guncho said:


> Someone just offered me a little over half of what I'm asking because, "They have to drive from Oshawa".
> 
> LIKE I CARE!


Yep, that line of argument is quite popular. I have offered to offset someone's fuel costs via price reduction, as a token really for them making the added effort, but that's about it. How they spend their time is their business and I don't subsidize that.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Certified cheque? What's that? If it's a private sale then once the cash is in your pocket then you hand over the signed transfer papers. 


Guncho said:


> Cash is archaic and I really hope someone doesn't pay with it. I don't even remember the last year I regularly carried cash on me.


Cash works anywhere, especially in private deals. As BlueRocker said, it's a good motivator in the changing of the price. 


Guncho said:


> The problem with that is most people can't send more than $3k a day via EMT.


I have at times gone with the buyer to the bank so they could withdraw the cash and have, once the deal is made gone to the bank to get cash.....depending on how much is owed.


Guncho said:


> Someone just offered me a little over half of what I'm asking because, "They have to drive from Oshawa".
> 
> LIKE I CARE!


Depends on how far they drive. I cut the guy who bought the '81 a bit of a deal for the 6+ hr drive.....one way. I figure if they do the drive then they are serious, especially if they show up pulling a trailer behind a truck. A lot cheaper than paying something for his gas.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> Certified cheque? What's that? If it's a private sale then once the cash is in your pocket then you hand over the signed transfer papers.
> 
> Cash works anywhere, especially in private deals. As BlueRocker said, it's a good motivator in the changing of the price.
> 
> ...


A certified cheque is is a cheque you get from a bank. It's certified as the bank withdraws the money to buy the cheque.

A certified cheque is safer, as only the intended recipient can cash it.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

I sell stuff all the time on Kijiji. 

Every single one of my ads have something like this in it:

Cash only.
Local only.
No delivery.

If it's not cash, it can be reversed or faked
Interac transfers, credit cards, cheques, even cash. 

The only exception is is that from working in nightclubs, I was/am not bad at finding fake currency.

Always sign the transfer of ownership papers
Always get&give a bill of sale. 
The last vehicle I sold, I took a picture with the person buying it. Selfie style. 

They thought I was being a cool old dude, I wanted a picture of their face in case something went wrong and I needed to describe them to the cops. 

When buying anything used....cash talks bullshit walks


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

My response to what is your best price. "I have already posted the asking price in the ad, but if you have a legitimate offer I will think about it." Which usually results in a 50% offer. Then I know the guy wasn't serious and I reply with, Keep looking, I'm sure you'll find one at that price eventually. On kijiji or Facebook marketplace, if he comes back with anything I find offensive like another shitty offer or a sarcastic response I just block them.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I sent them a link to some rusty 2006 Dodge Caravan and said, "This might be more your speed",


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Guncho said:


> A certified cheque is is a cheque you get from a bank. It's certified as the bank withdraws the money to buy the cheque.
> 
> A certified cheque is safer, as only the intended recipient can cash it.


Which means that you have to go to the bank when it's open to get the cheque which is then frozen for the amount of the cheque and more or less removes that money from your account. All well and good if you do the deal and have the time to go to the bank and get it done. 
And there's this
* " Beware of Check Fraud *

Fraudulent check scams can take many forms, but one of the most common involves a scammer passing off a fake certified or cashier’s check as payment for a purchase. Let's say, for example, that you have a car listed for sale through an online marketplace. The scammer contacts you to say they’re interested and presents you with an official-looking check from a bank as payment for the car. After you’ve deposited that check, however, the bank tells you that it’s a fake. Not only are you out the money, but you’ve also lost the car in the process. The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency warns against this type of scam.
Generally, banks are required by law to make the money from official bank checks (including cashier’s and certified checks) available to you within one business day after you deposit it to your account.2 But having the funds available doesn’t guarantee that the check is good. According to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), it can take weeks for a bank to discover check fraud.
By that time, you may have written checks or made purchases with your debit card against that amount. If those debit payments are returned or your checks bounce, that could mean overdraft or non-sufficient funds (NSF) fees for you."

Cash works nicely.
BTW I've know what certified checks and cashiers checks are for a long time.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> Which means that you have to go to the bank when it's open to get the cheque which is then frozen for the amount of the cheque and more or less removes that money from your account. All well and good if you do the deal and have the time to go to the bank and get it done.
> And there's this
> * " Beware of Check Fraud *
> 
> ...


You asked. 

Anything can be faked even cash.

You could get robbed of the thousands of dollars of cash now in your possession.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

If I’m the seller? CASH. Let the other guy worry about the logistics. Not my problem.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Whether it's a casher's cheque, bank cheque, or money order, treat it with the same caution you'd use for a personal cheque. Verify with the issuing bank. Before accepting a cashier's cheque, contact the issuing financial institution to verify its authenticity. But don't use the phone number that's printed on the cheque . Look up the institution and get the real telephone number.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

I would never respond to, “I have already posted the asking price in the ad, but if you have a legitimate offer I will think about it.”

Say your ad was for $1500. If I did respond I would say, “My maximum price is $1300.” to which you would ask, “$1450.” [without a question mark] expecting me to counter-offer $1375, but I really meant $1300.

Wasting everybody’s fucking time.

Which is why haggling is fucking stupid.

Symptomatic of pervasive dishonesty.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

knight_yyz said:


> Whether it's a casher's cheque, bank cheque, or money order, treat it with the same caution you'd use for a personal cheque. Verify with the issuing bank. Before accepting a cashier's cheque, contact the issuing financial institution to verify its authenticity. But don't use the phone number that's printed on the cheque . Look up the institution and get the real telephone number.


Kinda hard to do that some times, isn't it? Especially for out of town buyers? And/or when and what time you get the cheque. 


Guncho said:


> You asked.
> 
> Anything can be faked even cash.
> 
> You could get robbed of the thousands of dollars of cash now in your possession.


Yeah, cash can be faked but not as easy as a cheque of any kind. You could get robbed also but that's a risk you take same as you show someone your car and they smack you upside the head and take it....after filling the trunk with stuff from your garage and your house. Plus you sell your car with a certified cheque and you have to wait until it clears before being able to spend the cash. With cash you can stop off along the way to the bank and buy stuff.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Hammerhands said:


> I would never respond to, “I have already posted the asking price in the ad, but if you have a legitimate offer I will think about it.”
> 
> Say your ad was for $1500. If I did respond I would say, “My maximum price is $1300.” to which you would ask, “$1450.” [without a question mark] expecting me to counter-offer $1375, but I really meant $1300.
> 
> ...



Though I can't speak to your experience with sellers, personally I would not consider haggling with someone stating "My maximum price is $X". It seems patently obvious, to me at least, they're not interested in discussing any price beyond that..so why bother? They'd either get "Sure" or "No thanks" from me. That said, it's not uncommon for folks to simply ghost after their max price was accepted OR miraculously "find" another $100 to offer, hoping to close a deal. Just goes to show that folks aren't always transparent, while attempting to present themselves that way.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> Kinda hard to do that some times, isn't it? Especially for out of town buyers? And/or when and what time you get the cheque.
> 
> Yeah, cash can be faked but not as easy as a cheque of any kind. You could get robbed also but that's a risk you take same as you show someone your car and they smack you upside the head and take it....after filling the trunk with stuff from your garage and your house. Plus you sell your car with a certified cheque and you have to wait until it clears before being able to spend the cash. With cash you can stop off along the way to the bank and buy stuff.



Nobody said it was easy but if you are paranoid you can set it properly. as in don't sell on Saturday or Sunday for one...


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Cash and cash only. I've watched a good man's bank account get frozen for months, for excepting an EMT from a buyer. Turned out the buyer wasn't authorized to use the account he sent the EMT from and it was flagged as fraud.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

If someone did give you a fake cheque and you gave them the car, would insurance cover that?


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

cboutilier said:


> Cash and cash only. I've watched a good man's bank account get frozen for months, for excepting an EMT from a buyer. Turned out the buyer wasn't authorized to use the account he sent the EMT from and it was flagged as fraud.


That's just not realistic all the time. Also keep in mind we're talking cars not guitars. If you bought a $40,000 car are you going to pay in cash?

If your the seller are you going to want someone to hand you 400 $100 bills?

Anyway, how did this turn into a cash debate?


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Guncho said:


> That's just not realistic all the time. Also keep in mind we're talking cars not guitars. If you bought a $40,000 car are you going to pay in cash?


Yep. Go to the bank and get a big fat envelope.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

cboutilier said:


> Yep. Go to the bank and get a big fat envelope.


That seems crazy to me. To be walking around with $40k in cash.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Anyway can we get off this cash debate? It wasn't the point or what I was asking about.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Hammerhands said:


> I would never respond to, “I have already posted the asking price in the ad, but if you have a legitimate offer I will think about it.”
> 
> Say your ad was for $1500. If I did respond I would say, “My maximum price is $1300.” to which you would ask, “$1450.” [without a question mark] expecting me to counter-offer $1375, but I really meant $1300.
> 
> ...


Haggling is only stupid or a waste of time when either the prospective buyer is offering ridiculously low offers or the seller has priced it ridiculously high. Haggling has worked for many buyers and sellers. There are items I've sold where I've stuck to my guns getting asking or over asking. There are items I've sold below and well below asking. It all comes down to a number of factors. How motivated I am to sell the item. Properly pricing to the market, desirability, etc..


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Does anyone have an opinion on what a 2011 Toyota Sienna LE V6 with 220k is worth? Certified. Was in some minor $3k fender bender before we owned it.

My research says the average asking price in Ontario for the same vehicle with similar km is around $9600.

I am asking $9k.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Guncho said:


> Someone just offered me a little over half of what I'm asking because, "They have to drive from Oshawa".
> 
> LIKE I CARE!


Wow! How much do I save from St. Catharines?


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Guncho said:


> That's just not realistic all the time. Also keep in mind we're talking cars not guitars. If you bought a $40,000 car are you going to pay in cash?
> 
> If your the seller are you going to want someone to hand you 400 $100 bills?
> 
> Anyway, how did this turn into a cash debate?


Seems like a good way to end up in the trunk of the car you were trying to sell.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Guncho said:


> Does anyone have an opinion on what a 2011 Toyota Sienna LE V6 with 220k is worth? Certified. Was in some minor $3k fender bender before we owned it.
> 
> My research says the average asking price in Ontario for the same vehicle with similar km is around $9600.
> 
> I am asking $9k.


Without sounding evasive. Decide what you want out of the car and work from there.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Guncho said:


> If someone did give you a fake cheque and you gave them the car, would insurance cover that?


just go to the buyers bank and have him withdraw the cash. He hands it to you you sign the ownership over and give him the keys. Money is legit. No way you can be burned on the transaction.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Guncho said:


> That seems crazy to me. To be walking around with $40k in cash.


open a account while there and deposit it. Transfer the money to your main bank at a later date.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Cash is too modern. I want gold.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

StevieMac said:


> Yep, that line of argument is quite popular. I have offered to offset someone's fuel costs via price reduction, as a token really for them making the added effort, but that's about it. How they spend their time is their business and I don't subsidize that.


I figure if they’re interested in something I’m selling, already knowing where I’m located, theres prob a reason for it, and the distance is their problem. Although I might be willing to meet up with them closer to them if i happen to be in the area already.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Guncho said:


> You asked.
> 
> Anything can be faked even cash.
> 
> You could get robbed of the thousands of dollars of cash now in your possession.


The difference is, the police don’t give a shit if you get fucked by taking a fake check.
but they sure care if someone is counterfeiting currency.
you might have a chance of them getting off their ass to catch the guy.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

knight_yyz said:


> Nobody said it was easy but if you are paranoid you can set it properly. as in don't sell on Saturday or Sunday for one...


If you want to lose sales, same as not selling at night. 


Guncho said:


> If someone did give you a fake cheque and you gave them the car, would insurance cover that?


Probably not. Being fake it wouldn't be covered by a bank and once you're bank discovered it was fake after you cashed it they'd want their money back.....from you. Their car insurance wouldn't cover anything....if they have insurance. Your only hope is that you get the car back, in one piece and can take them to court. Might be some coverage if you have fire and theft on your car insurance and it's still active which is highly doubtful. Why have insurance when you no longer drive the car.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Simple way around this is the barter system. What do you need done around the house?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Guncho said:


> Cash is too modern. I want gold.


You're asking $9,000 which at today's prices would be around 3.7 oz. How about I give you 3 oz.? You want that in nuggets, dust or bars? You can provide the scale but as soon as I give you the gold I'm taking the car same as if I paid any other way.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Or livestock?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Distortion said:


> open a account while there and deposit it. Transfer the money to your main bank at a later date.


That's not as easy as it used to be. They want appointments and time and all sorts of ID... They want to sell you other stuff. You don't just walk in and open an account anymore.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Guncho said:


> Or livestock?


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## mnicholson2003 (Feb 16, 2009)

I've been in the car biz for 27 years at our local Ford store....best advice I can give is when the money is in hand or cleared, then it's safe to let the car go. Make sure the title is changed over to the new buyer. After that, they're on their own in terms of a private sale.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

mnicholson2003 said:


> I've been in the car biz for 27 years at our local Ford store....best advice I can give is when the money is in hand or cleared, then it's safe to let the car go. Make sure the title is changed over to the new buyer. After that, they're on their own in terms of a private sale.


So would you release the car when the certified cash is in hand or not until you verify it's legit? How do you verify it's legit?

How do you make sure the title is changed to the new buyer? Go to service Ontario with them?


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Guncho said:


> How do you make sure the title is changed to the new buyer? Go to service Ontario with them?


your suppose to buy the used information package for your vehicle. You fill out the bill of sale , You both sign it . Take a picture and he has 6 days to transfer the ownership. Also you have to fill out and sign the ownership. Pull your plates .


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> your suppose to buy the used information package for your vehicle. You fill out the bill of sale , You both sign it . Take a picture and he has 6 days to transfer the ownership. Also you have to fill out and sign the ownership.


Great we have both.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Guncho said:


> Great we have both.


are you selling certified ?


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> are you selling certified ?


We will be yes. Our mechanic assured us it would pass but recommended not actually certifying it until we have a buyer as it's only good for 36 days.


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## mnicholson2003 (Feb 16, 2009)

Guncho said:


> So would you release the car when the certified cash is in hand or not until you verify it's legit? How do you verify it's legit?
> 
> How do you make sure the title is changed to the new buyer? Go to service Ontario with them?


I would just use as much caution as you can when you're not dealing with people you know. If I were selling a car here privately, I would likely go to Service NB with them. At least I would know the work is done and it's out of my name. As far as cash, certified cheque etc, I don't know how I would really handle that part. A certified bank draft is nice but like you say...how do you know it's legit? Go to the bank with them to verify? I don't really know that part. I've never been shafted in all the years I've been at the dealership.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

CONCLUSION: A polite woman contacted me a while ago and offered us $6k (I am asking $9K). I politely declined. Today she contacted me again and offered $8k. We accepted. Now what I expected to happen was she would come and check the van out, if all was good, she would give me a deposit, we would get it safetied, she would pay the rest and we would transfer the ownership. Instead she said she would be over shortly with the cash and would be taking the van home. I asked her if she wanted me to get it safetied and she said no it doesn't matter as she is shipping the van to Nigeria. RED FLAGS RED FLAGS right? Sounded weird and sketchy. I googled the name that came up on call display and she seemed legit. It was an article about her as a student from Nigeria. She had mentioned she had to go to the bank so I asked if I could meet her at the bank and watch the teller withdraw the cash and hand it directly to me. She said yes so that's what we did. I took pics of her driver's license, the ownership transfer all filled out and the bill of sale from the used vehicle package. Tomorrow we will go to Service Ontario and let them know the vehicle is sold and call and cancel the insurance. She said shipping to Nigeria costs her $8k US and that after all is said and done, she will still make $2-3K profit. Crazy. So someone over there is paying $22k for a 2010 Toyota Sienna which we paid $25k for 7 years ago.

Weird!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Guncho said:


> CONCLUSION: A polite woman contacted me a while ago and offered us $6k (I am asking $9K). I politely declined. Today she contacted me again and offered $8k. We accepted. Now what I expected to happen was she would come and check the van out, if all was good, she would give me a deposit, we would get it safetied, she would pay the rest and we would transfer the ownership. Instead she said she would be over shortly with the cash and would be taking the van home. I asked her if she wanted me to get it safetied and she said no it doesn't matter as she is shipping the van to Nigeria. RED FLAGS RED FLAGS right? Sounded weird and sketchy. I googled the name that came up on call display and she seemed legit. It was an article about her as a student from Nigeria. She had mentioned she had to go to the bank so I asked if I could meet her at the bank and watch the teller withdraw the cash and hand it directly to me. She said yes so that's what we did. I took pics of her driver's license, the ownership transfer all filled out and the bill of sale from the used vehicle package. Tomorrow we will go to Service Ontario and let them know the vehicle is sold and call and cancel the insurance. She said shipping to Nigeria costs her $8k US and that after all is said and done, she will still make $2-3K profit. Crazy. So someone over there is paying $22k for a 2010 Toyota Sienna which we paid $25k for 7 years ago.
> 
> Weird!


Don't see any reason for red flags. As far as buying and shipping a vehicle to another country and making a profit, cars get shipped across the '49th all the time at a much larger profit. Same with places like Dubai so I can't see why Nigeria should be any different. Here's a 2012 going for roughly $20,300 Canadian. She's probably buying more than one, shipping would be cheaper. 
2012 Toyota Sienna for sale in Lekki
Do you know how many guys with Kalashnikovas will fit in that thing?


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