# First tube amp...Dark Horse or Tube meister?



## Heddok (Apr 5, 2017)

I know how irritating new comers to a forum can be, so let me say I did search this forum. I spent days reading back through amp posts to about 2013. I now have data overload. And I'm still going to ask a dumb which amp question!!

I'm looking for a small amp head to pair with a 2x12 cab, probably a Traynor Dark horse cab. I'm looking for a clean sound for blues and classic rock that I can use pedals with when needed. 

Strictly for home use but in a huge room plus I live in the country so no volume concerns. 

The amps I'm interested in are the Tube meister 18, Dark Horse or Iron horse. Another choice is a 5 year old YCS 50H a guy is selling locally for $500 but is just too much for an intermediate player like me.

I'm open to any and all thoughts, ideas, suggestions or general abuse and harrassment.

Thanks

Brad


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Brad! Welcome bud!
IMO, repeat, "in MY opinion " the Iron Horse (40 watts?) is a great clean platform for pedals, more than the 15w Dark & 18w Tubemeister. (Although, the blue glow of the H&K is pretty, I was drawn in like a fly to the blue light....)

So you have a 212 cab already?

The guy is asking a bit too much for the YCS, again, IMO.

Can you go to the L&M (Traynor distributor) to try the 3 different heads out? Grab a guitar that's like yours, a few pedals to try & make an afternoon of it.


Sent from my "other" other brain.


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## Guest (Apr 9, 2017)

Welcome to the forum.
I recently picked up an Iron Horse and I'm loving it!
They average around $400 used.
The 'clean' mode stays clean no matter how high you turn it up.
I like using the 'pure' mode (it has a lovely crunch), which is switchable (toggle or foot) for a 'solo' oomph.
40 watts, yes. Also switchable to 15 watts.
Switch on the back for 4/8 ohm.
I couldn't tell you how it takes pedals, I don't use them.
I don't have any experience with the other amps you mentioned.
Hopefully, someone will chime in and fill in those blanks for you.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

I love my YCS however that's a lot of money for just the head. If you can get him down on the price ..you already have a cab, it's a nice set up. Nice cleans and into Marshall territory. Hard rock, metal, blues. you get an off a lot of bang with your buck with the YCS series.

I cannot vote for the other two however I hear good things about both


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I'd be looking for a nice 70s Traynor head. Around the same price, and handwired goodness.


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

cboutilier said:


> I'd be looking for a nice 70s Traynor head. Around the same price, and handwired goodness.


Amen to that bro' - this is immediately what I thought also.


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

Welcome aboard!
I would suggest the TubeMeister 18. Its a great amp!


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

The only thing I did not like about the Tubemeister 18 was the voicing of the lead channel. Could not EQ out to a crunch that I liked.
The clean channel was amazing. clear and sparkly. The DI out for going to the mixer sounded very very good as well, Which is something you'd have to add to a traynor in the form of a H&K Red Box.

No experience with the Traynor


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

What's the budget and what are the volume restrictions?


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Heddok said:


> I'm looking for a clean sound for blues and classic rock that I can use pedals with when needed.
> 
> Strictly for home use but in a huge room plus I live in the country so no volume concerns.


Considering these, I don't know if the options the H&K gives you would be necessary (lots of channel switching, power scaling, etc). The Red Box is apparently quite good if you are into home recording, but there are other solutions for that, too. But it doesn't sound like you really need any of that.

As for build quality, I would go Traynor all day long. Just pick up a TM and DH. I think the weight difference speaks to the quality of chassis, transformers, etc. The DH and IH are great blues/rock amps. I would also look at older handwired Traynors, if you can find one for a good price. The secret seems to be out on the Left Coast - harder to find and they aren't so cheap any more. If you could get that YCS for <$400, that's an amp you could grow in to. I've seen them used at L&M for under $400.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I have no experience with the amps you've mentioned, but I do recommend the Traynor DH cabs.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Look this one up, cheap and sweet, with a free in house Tube Screamer. 5w/15w switch in the back. Bass and treble knobs have a HUGE span.


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## Heddok (Apr 5, 2017)

Thanks for all the advice so far, really appreciated. Just to clarify, no volume restrictions, The nearest neighbors are 100 meters away in heavy forest. 

My budget for head and cab is around $1200. I've tried out a friends DH 2x12 cab and really like it but may rent the Traynor YBX 212 if it's available. So I'm pretty sure I'll buy either one of those cabs leaving $600-$700 for the amp head.

Both the Iron Horse and Darkhorse appeal to me as they have all the features I want and the sound clips are what I'm looking for. Whatever I buy I'll be keeping for a longtime so reliability and repairability is important. Recording and gigging are not on my agenda but I'm looking for a tube amp that I can really grow with.

I've been back and forth via email with the guy selling the YCS 50H. He bought the amp and 2 4x12 cabs 5 years ago from L+M for $2600 with tax. He's fixated on wanting $500 for the head and $500 for each cab. From photo's they look to be near new condition but who knows what's going on inside? But all he sees is how much he's "losing" from what he paid new. 

The point has been reached where my Mustang I with it's 8 inch speaker is irritating me everyday when I pick up my guitar. I practice 2 hours a day and spend an hour on technique, the Mustang is great. I then play and improvise for an hour or two and really have some fun and the Mustang isn't so great anymore.

Thanks for the info, it all helps


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

If you dont have volume restrictions, that kind of budget will get you a pretty decent amp. 

A fender of sorts and traynor 212 should fit in that budget. I would be looking at that route personally.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Where on the Island are you? Do you get to Nanaimo?


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Heddok said:


> Thanks for all the advice so far, really appreciated. Just to clarify, no volume restrictions, The nearest neighbors are 100 meters away in heavy forest.
> 
> My budget for head and cab is around $1200. I've tried out a friends DH 2x12 cab and really like it but may rent the Traynor YBX 212 if it's available. So I'm pretty sure I'll buy either one of those cabs leaving $600-$700 for the amp head.
> 
> ...



He's out to lunch. I picked up a YCS90 212 20w/90/w for under $550 with warranty. No matter what you want, if long and mcquade has it, even used, they will ship it to your nearest location for only a few bucks more.


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## Heddok (Apr 5, 2017)

Hammerhands said:


> Where on the Island are you? Do you get to Nanaimo?


I live in the wild boonie land of East Sooke. Had a very large cougar looking in our living room window the other evening. 

Only get up to Naniamo a few times a year, I have elderly parents in Victoria so stick close to home.


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

just found this at L&M Local store deal section:
*TRAYNOR YGM3 20W TUBE GUITAR AMP*
A hand-wired amplifier reissue made in Canada with a Jensen P12Q Alnico Magnet speaker.

**PLEASE CALL TO CHECK AVAILABILITY**
*Sale Price: $549.00Original Price: $1125.00*
Model: YGM3Sku: 295611Serial: 8099426Quantity Available: 1Condition: Used
Email: [email protected]: (250) 716-7261


might be interesting for you?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

For $1200 at home, buy a fender twin for $800 dump $150 into a good dirt pedal and bank the rest.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Considering the OP's initial requirements, a Twin wouldn't be anywhere on my shopping list. Too heavy, too much power - I'd never take it out anywhere and if I did I couldn't use half that power. And they only do clean.

I never run out of headroom, even playing outdoors, with 50 watts. Twins sound great as clean platforms, but for $1200, I would go shopping for used amps in Victoria or over here. You can find something that is a clean platform but has a good distortion channel (or two) as well. I think he's on the right track with his initial post (Traynor) but there are other options. Lots of used inventory in the Lower Mainland, if he's willing to spend the day driving a bit (Tom Lee and L&M in North Van, Van, Richmond, Coquitlam, Port Coquitlam - 8 or 9 stores without going too far out) and has educated himself enough to pull the trigger when he finds the one .


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Is he out gigging it?

Ever put a good dirt pedal in front of a twin?

Twins get quiet - "too much power" would matter if they couldnt get quiet, and if he had volume restraints.

Conversly he could get a mesa lonestar. 

I used to be all about requiring a good distortion channel until I used a clean amp with a good dirt pedal.

It's also much easier to try dirt pedals in front of your clean platform than cycle through heads and cabs on the same hunt.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Yea, I owned a Twin. Who didn't in the 70s? And they sound as good as a bunch of other 100 watt pedal platforms - if you like to get your distortion from SS pedals. I do not!

My Roadster 212 was a significantly better amp in all respects - but too heavy just like the Twin. Not much more money than a Twin used nowadays. But it was useless because I just got to the point where I never took it out. Even though I used it at home a lot, that was too much money to tie up for that limited use. And it wasn't the 'one trick pony' a Twin is without pedals.

I'd much prefer a DRRI for what the OP is talking about - at least you can get into the power section and some natural tube distortion with one of those. But I wouldn't recommend it because it is still a bit of a 'one trick pony' without pedals. With that budget, I would go shopping for amps that can do more of what he wants. Lots of selection close to where he lives and many amps that come closer than either the Twin or DRRI for his requirements. But as always, his and your MMV.


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## Heddok (Apr 5, 2017)

You guys are great lots of ideas expanding my search. I think making a day trip over to Vancouver is a good idea. I'm also going to get into L+M next week and rent an Iron Horse and cab for a week and see how it sounds. I have a certain sound or tone stuck in my head that's hard to explain.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

bigboki said:


> just found this at L&M Local store deal section:
> *TRAYNOR YGM3 20W TUBE GUITAR AMP*
> A hand-wired amplifier reissue made in Canada with a Jensen P12Q Alnico Magnet speaker.
> 
> ...


This is exactly why I asked if he got Nanaimo.

This isn't quite what he's looking for but it must be the best deal in Canada on an amp that would be perfect for him.

These limited edition hand-wired ones are most desirable and will last a lifetime or longer.

I've had the experience where the item listed on the L&M site was no longer there, so phone ahead!

Music Store Nanaimo | Long & McQuade Musical Instruments

There's some mystery Fender on Kijiji as well.

fender silverface cab and amp | amps, pedals | Nanaimo | Kijiji


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## Heddok (Apr 5, 2017)

Thanks for the heads up on the Fender in Naniamo. I'm going to call about it as I can't get up there just now.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Hammerhands said:


> This is exactly why I asked if he got Nanaimo.
> 
> This isn't quite what he's looking for but it must be the best deal in Canada on an amp that would be perfect for him.
> 
> ...


That is a killer deal on a great sounding amp. That's worth buying just to see if you like it.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Stop in at the L&M on Hillside whenever you are in town. They often have sweet used deals on amps/guitars. If you see it and like it, buy it immediately otherwise it'll be gone within hours. My previous deals Marshall JCM-1 $350. Marshall JCM800 4010 in a head $550. Gibson LP Traditional $1500. Thats just in the last year or so. I like to shop the other shops too (Classic Guitars on Fort can be good) but it's pretty hard to beat the random deals at L&M.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

BSTheTech said:


> Stop in at the L&M on Hillside whenever you are in town. They often have sweet used deals on amps/guitars. If you see it and like it, buy it immediately otherwise it'll be gone within hours.


Not only that - but 30 FREE RETURN PRIVILEGES. I walked past some things on a few different occassions, came back the next day and they were gone. There was a little self-ass-kicking going on after that. Not much down-side to jumping on a good deal at L&M. They get called to task for a few business practices but that is one of things I enjoy as a (far too) regular customer.


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## Heddok (Apr 5, 2017)

You guys got me so charged up I drove an hour to L+M just to find out they were closed!! I'll go back next week and check out the used stuff but at this point I'm going to rent a Traynor Iron Horse just to get a starting point.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Oops sorry. Good Friday caught me too. Luckily I was going that way anyways.


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2017)

Heddok said:


> You guys got me so charged up I drove an hour to L+M just to find out they were closed!! I'll go back next week and check out the used stuff but at this point I'm going to rent a Traynor Iron Horse just to get a starting point.


Call ahead first to see if they have one.
You don't want to waste another two hour drive.


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## StratCat (Dec 30, 2013)

bigboki said:


> just found this at L&M Local store deal section:
> *TRAYNOR YGM3 20W TUBE GUITAR AMP*
> A hand-wired amplifier reissue made in Canada with a Jensen P12Q Alnico Magnet speaker.
> 
> ...



Spaceman music has a vintage YGM3 for $499.00 Perhaps they would ship it to Heddok for that price. The worst they could say is no.

Traynor YGM-3 Head *MODDED* - Spaceman Music

Early 70s Traynor YGM-3 - thoughts and experiences appreciated


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## Heddok (Apr 5, 2017)

Hi, I'm the OP. Just to update everyone, I bought a used Ironhorse for $399 from L+M. My wife had already gotten me the DH212 cab, what a woman.

It's just fantastic for my purposes. Incredible range of tones. So after several months of shopping and trying amps out I'm glad I came to this forum and got the advice. 

Thanks everyone.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Heddok said:


> Hi, I'm the OP. Just to update everyone, I bought a used Ironhorse for $399 from L+M. My wife had already gotten me the DH212 cab, what a woman.
> 
> It's just fantastic for my purposes. Incredible range of tones. So after several months of shopping and trying amps out I'm glad I came to this forum and got the advice.
> 
> Thanks everyone.


Nothing like an understanding wife eh.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Nice. Did you get it at the Victoria store?


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## Heddok (Apr 5, 2017)

Yeah-the Hillside store has been pleasant to deal with. Gave me a years warranty on the amp.


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