# And the biggest piece of crap software known to man is...



## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

iTunes.

There is no reason to have analyze every mp3 for gapless information. No other software player on the planet has to and they all do gapless playback perfectly. Do it on the fly.

I have a 80,000+ track library. Needless to say, it's going on 14 hours now of unresponsiveness as it analyzes every track for gapless information.

Just as a reference, I converted my entire library from FLAC to MP3 in 16 hours. I have a 6 core i7 running at 4.13GHZ, a dedicated external USB3 mp3 drive and an SSD for the OS which hosts the flat library file. For the love of god Apple write your software so it uses the machine. Right now iTunes is using 1 core at about 1% and is totally unresponsive.

I like my iPhone but between it's extremely limited player and having to use iTunes, I wonder how the heck did Apple corner the market?


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Never under value the purchasing power of tweens.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

keeperofthegood said:


> Never under value the purchasing power of tweens.


Isn't that the truth. My 9 year old niece has a great Zune player that has better sound quality and playback features and awesome management software. But at a recent charity auction she convinced gramma to bid on a Nano. I couldn't talk her out of it, but since the money was for a good cause, I didn't push it.

Needless to say, I had to get itunes connected to the library of music, that took days of importing. I then had to talk my bro and her through syncing.

It was a nightmare, but she's a smart kid and has it figured out now.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2010)

The entire iLife suite is crap. I'm glad I'm not the only one who despises iTunes. It us, I will say, better on a Mac. But not by much. The gapless thing drives me nuts too. The entire search and filter interface is kludgy and slow. Startup and shut down times grow unacceptably high as your library grows. The way you use that stupid checkbox to stop stuff from playing (like Christmas tunes in July) is lame. The store interface is dog ass slow. App updates take forever. I could go on...


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## Andy (Sep 23, 2007)

I have to say, after ditching Windows Media Player for iTunes back in the XP era, I was pleasantly surprised by the version that came on Windows 7 with my new computer. It kicks the hell out of iTunes, which has slowly degraded to complete bloatware. VLC is very nice, as well, but I like the extra interface features of WMP.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Andy said:


> I have to say, after ditching Windows Media Player for iTunes back in the XP era, I was pleasantly surprised by the version that came on Windows 7 with my new computer. It kicks the hell out of iTunes, which has slowly degraded to complete bloatware. VLC is very nice, as well, but I like the extra interface features of WMP.


I have to agree, I was surpised by WPM11. Now, if it would only sync with my ipod that would be great. I too despise iTunes. And just to add, notice how iTunes is currently on v9.2 yet the interface hasn't made any real changes since the first versions were released?


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> I have to agree, I was surpised by WPM11. Now, if it would only sync with my ipod that would be great. I too despise iTunes. And just to add, notice how iTunes is currently on v9.2 yet the interface hasn't made any real changes since the first versions were released?


Apple has no reason to change it. The only thing that will make them change is a competing product stealing their market share. Android is doing a good job on the phone front but there still isn't competition in the player market. Microsoft had a great product but they never marketed it, for some stupid reason. The subscription based Zune pass is an awesome idea, all the music you can download a month for $15. Of course that music was DRMed but you also got 10 songs a month DRM free.

We can only hope when Windows 7 mobile hits the streets in a couple months, Apple with take a look at the Zune software and realize what a piece of junk their iTunes is in comparison.


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

Jeff, have you tried Media Monkey? I personally haven't downloaded it but from what I've read it seems to do pretty much the same thing iTunes does except faster and with less bloat. They have a free and a "gold" version. Here's the website if you want to check it out: MediaMonkey » Free Media Jukebox, Music Manager, CD Ripper & Converter


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

> Now, if it would only sync with my ipod that would be great.


Has anybody tried this - Sync your iPod with Windows Media Player

I had it on the computer, but never got around to trying it.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

nkjanssen said:


> 80,000 tracks!? What the hell do you have on there?! I have about 9,000 tracks (800 or so albums) and thought that was a ton.


I have a bit of a disease when it comes to collecting music...


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Kenmac said:


> Jeff, have you tried Media Monkey? I personally haven't downloaded it but from what I've read it seems to do pretty much the same thing iTunes does except faster and with less bloat. They have a free and a "gold" version. Here's the website if you want to check it out: MediaMonkey » Free Media Jukebox, Music Manager, CD Ripper & Converter


I have in the past as just a collection manager, didn't like it. But that was because it wouldn't work with Asio like I want.

Not sure I want to worry about 3 different music managers.

J. River media center for my Flac library and my main Asio player.
ITunes for for the iPhone. Would still need it for PDFs.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Somehow, I don't think Apple had 80,000 tracks in mind when it designed iTunes, with most of the iPods, likely Nanos, out there running 8 to 32 Mb. I've only got 800 tracks on mine. I couldn't even imagine 80k in wildest dreams.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2010)

Robert1950 said:


> Somehow, I don't think Apple had 80,000 tracks in mind when it designed iTunes, with most of the iPods, likely Nanos, out there running 8 to 32 Mb. I've only got 800 tracks on mine. I couldn't even imagine 80k in wildest dreams.


I'm running 20k tracks here and it was around 10k where performance started to take a noise dive. It's designed to manage a desktops-worth of tracks, so yes, they're thinking you'll have more tracks in iTunes than your portable devices can hold because you've got essentially infinite storage space available from your desktops.

I will say: if you're on a Mac you can make somethings in iTunes a little more tolerable with AppleScripts (marking all podcasts listened, expiring old podcasts if you haven't listened to them after one week, etc.). If anyone is interested let me know. I'll post more.

Also: CoveScout on Mac is what I use to sanitize my album covers. And SongGenie cleans up my tags.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Robert1950 said:


> Somehow, I don't think Apple had 80,000 tracks in mind when it designed iTunes, with most of the iPods, likely Nanos, out there running 8 to 32 Mb. I've only got 800 tracks on mine. I couldn't even imagine 80k in wildest dreams.


They should have! I easily have 50k on my main machine and another 40-50k stored on various DVDs because I currently don't have the HD space for it! I'm sure the vast majority of users have less than 5000 songs, but that doesn't mean there aren't people out there with much, much more!

I switched to iTunes a while back because of the iPod interface, which was better than I found using Anapod or other 3rd party apps. I can't stand how iTunes works and how slow it is. Everything about it is annoying. The only decent thing about iTunes is the smart playlists and Genius, but then again, I'm sure you can find another interface using something similar. 

I used to use Winamp, and I still thing it is the best player period. Small program, very little in the way of bloaty crud, especially if you install the minimum, lightning fast adding and removing of music. Better in EVERY way except how it interfaces with my iPod (at least last time I used it, which was a while back).

When I'm writing/recording music, I use a lot of drum loops and samples because I don't drum and I can't be bothered to write drum parts. Loading and listening to hundreds, if not thousands of drum tracks on iTunes is my own personal hell. I have Winamp installed on my machine specifically for this reason. I open it, find the drum tracks I like and then shut it down. Thanks, Apple, for making me use a competitor's product because yours sucks.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> I used to use Winamp, and I still thing it is the best player period. Small program, very little in the way of bloaty crud, especially if you install the minimum, lightning fast adding and removing of music. Better in EVERY way except how it interfaces with my iPod (at least last time I used it, which was a while back).


On my computer I'm using J River Media Center, I just turn off all the extra stuff. It's blazing fast, has awesome customizability and support and does ASIO and WASAPI. But it isn't free, and that might be what makes it so good. But it doesn't interface with my iPhone.

I can't imagine running iTunes on older hardware with a conventional hard drive.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> I can't imagine running iTunes on older hardware with a conventional hard drive.


You wouldn't want to, it's too painful. It's not like my machine is a dinosaur either! I have a quad-core machine, but it's still soooooooooooo slow!

I'll look into the J River software, thanks!


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> *And the biggest piece of crap software known to man is...*
> 
> iTunes.


you are now my brother, in my heart. hahahahaha

i hate itunes as well, but not just for the reasons you mentioned. it's just a flat-out P.I.T.A.
who the hell came up with the idea of software that works the way itunes does? it's retarded! i would love my 16G nano if i could manage the music with WMP11 like i did with my little 2 G sansa mp4. i am going to try that software someone posted for using wmp with an ipod, to see how it works. if i like it, i will def post about it.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

I hate to go against the grain....but I like itunes......probably because I like my mac better than any PC I've used....and I like the Ilife suite..for my purposes - GArage band, Iphoto and Imovie are awesome!

but maybe if I had 80,000 songs in my library - I'd be experiencing the same issues...I "only" have 10,000....no performance issues whatsoever


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

lbrown1 said:


> I hate to go against the grain....but I like itunes......probably because I like my mac better than any PC I've used....and I like the Ilife suite..for my purposes - GArage band, Iphoto and Imovie are awesome!
> 
> but maybe if I had 80,000 songs in my library - I'd be experiencing the same issues...I "only" have 10,000....no performance issues whatsoever


Good to hear it works well for some! I'm sure it's more a user-to-user thing than anything. I wish I could be happy with it, because there are certain features I like, but others that really annoy me. One of them being the inability to set global hotkeys for my multimedia keyboard (which doesn't support scripts, which seems to be the only way to do it properly).


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

This is why I still buy CDs. I hate searching and MANAGING files. I have stuff on my old PC that I never got around to moving. Stuff on my mp3 player not on my laptop, duplicates of files, ARGH!

People laugh at me for buying cds but when I want to listen to an album it is there. It doesn't disappear, I don't "forget" what room they are in, they sound better, AND I don't have to spend even more time on my computer.

TG


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

traynor_garnet said:


> This is why I still buy CDs. I hate searching and MANAGING files. I have stuff on my old PC that I never got around to moving. Stuff on my mp3 player not on my laptop, duplicates of files, ARGH!
> 
> People laugh at me for buying cds but when I want to listen to an album it is there. It doesn't disappear, I don't "forget" what room they are in, they sound better, AND I don't have to spend even more time on my computer.
> 
> TG


Hey TG, very valid point. I still listen to CDs too in my living room because that's just how I am. I like tossing on a disc while doing dishes or whatever and listening straight through it. On the other hand, I have my playlists in iTunes set up to constantly put new stuff on my iPod, so I find I'm always being introduced to new artists or songs that I've never heard before. Sure, some of it is junk, but some of it in incredible stuff that opens new musical doors for me! Both methods have their place and their advantages.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

my stand alone cd player broke 2 years ago, I never replaced it.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

keeperofthegood said:


> my stand alone cd player broke 2 years ago, I never replaced it.


Good point, keeps. I don't actually have a CD player, I use my DVD player, but if disc formats became obsolete, would I buy one just to listen to CDs? Likely not.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

you know, it would make far more sense to build players to take Flash-drives and similar data cards. My last CD player was a clock-radio-cd machine. The clock works, the radio gets 2 stations so essentially nothing at all, and I kicked it in my sleep ending the life of the cd part 

Now, if they could just put in a card reader instead, then I could load up my stick and go! I used to do that going to the library. USB Flash-drives are now out in 32 gig size too so it only makes sense.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

I enjoy having my entire collection available to me on my stereo via a couple swipes of my finger on my iPhone. My streamer hardware and software does the rest for me. Best part is it's all CD quality.

I can't imagine digging through 6500 CDs to find something I wanted to play. Organization is easy with the right ripper and management software, neither of which are iTunes.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

keeperofthegood said:


> you know, it would make far more sense to build players to take Flash-drives and similar data cards. My last CD player was a clock-radio-cd machine. The clock works, the radio gets 2 stations so essentially nothing at all, and I kicked it in my sleep ending the life of the cd part
> 
> Now, if they could just put in a card reader instead, then I could load up my stick and go! I used to do that going to the library. USB Flash-drives are now out in 32 gig size too so it only makes sense.


my wife has a rental volkswagen golf for a few days.......it has just that on the stereo....a usb input to plug in a flash drive....though that was kinda cool


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

lbrown1 said:


> my wife has a rental volkswagen golf for a few days.......it has just that on the stereo....a usb input to plug in a flash drive....though that was kinda cool


"KINDA"!! that IS cool!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I would have picked Microsoft Word as the worst software known to man.


I have no trouble with iTunes. It does what I want it to do and works every time. PLUS, I was able to figure it out without a manual or a tutorial.


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## Metal#J# (Jan 1, 2007)

I have friends that have 50-80k songs in their library........I only ever hear them listening to the same shit though. And with that many songs, if they ever set their player to random........I'd probably get up and leave.

iTunes works fine for me.......would be nice if it looked different after all these years.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Metal#J# said:


> I have friends that have 50-80k songs in their library........I only ever hear them listening to the same shit though. And with that many songs, if they ever set their player to random........I'd probably get up and leave.


It's all about properly managing your library with smart playlists, static playlists and genius playlists, as well as using all 3 in concert to come up with some awesome playlists.

For instance, on my iPhone, I set it to cull 25Gb of music from my main playlist broken down the following way:
5Gb of stuff that I've rating highly - 4+ stars
5Gb of stuff that I've rated well, but haven't heard in a while - 3+ stars, 6+ months since I last heard
5Gb of stuff that is similar to stuff I like - I pick 5 or 10 songs and make genius playlists and then cull from there
5Gb of stuff that I've never heard before
5Gb of stuff that I've downloaded in the last month

That allows me to set my iPhone to random and be able to listen to pretty much every track that pops up. I have similar playlists set up at home.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i don't do that on mine. i pick an artist, and then hit "all songs". i listen to that artist till i get where i'm going or run out of their stuff. it takes 1.5 hrs to get to work on the ttc. i can listen to howlin wolf, or 12 girls band, or glenn miller all the way there. mustasch will get me to work and back 2 days runnin if i want it to.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

keeperofthegood said:


> "KINDA"!! that IS cool!


AND - it was a rental!!! - bottom of the line as it were......


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

lbrown1 said:


> AND - it was a rental!!! - bottom of the line as it were......


I've had a lot of luck with rentals having at least AUX inputs. My Pontiac Sunfire doesn't have one and it irritates me to no end. Then again, the major problem here is that I drive a Pontiac Sunfire


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

lbrown1 said:


> my wife has a rental volkswagen golf for a few days.......it has just that on the stereo....a usb input to plug in a flash drive....though that was kinda cool


My van has an ipod input and you can choose Artist/song/album/playlist etc from the controls on the stereo or on the steering wheel. I love it.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

mrmatt1972 said:


> My van has an ipod input and you can choose Artist/song/album/playlist etc from the controls on the stereo or on the steering wheel. I love it.


Awesome, what kind of van do you have? I know Fords have Microsoft Sync, which is supposed to do similar things with all connectible devices.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Well it looks like iTunes 10 is going to suck as bad as 9. They went and took all the Zune software's social features and "innovated" them into iTunes, bloating it even more.

I was so hoping for a complete redesign.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2010)

Complete and total disappointment watching that Apple event today. iTunes 10 is a joke -- they've bloated it further with useless stuff (like "Ping") and even started mucking about with their own tried and true UI conventions (the vertical state buttons for minimize, close window and maximize window -- at least on OS X).

Lame.

On a slightly related note: the new Apple TV box looks great. And at USD$99 I think I'll pick one up just to use as a media extender to my TV upstairs.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

just to let you know, i tried that software that allows you to sync with windows media player. 

IT'S FREAKIN FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!! lightning fast, works like a dream come true, i will abso-frickin-lootly be buying this software before the 30 day trial runs out.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I don't have major issues with iTunes. I don't really like it, nor do I really hate. It just kinda works for what I want it to do.

Someone else mentioned Microsoft Word, and it's definitely on a list of my most hated software. Along with MS Publisher and CorelDraw.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I certainly have no need for social networking with iTunes. A striped down version called iTunes Lite would be just find with me for managimg music and podcasts.


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