# Peavey Classic 30 concerns... help plz!



## Tawm! (Jan 11, 2008)

Hey all!

My rhythm player/singer just picked up a vox ac30 which has needless to say, left me a little jealous haha. Because its such a big top end tone, I've had to clean up my Peavey Classic 30's tone quite a bit to blend a little better in the mix. My tone gets unbelievably muddy and it is quite hard to fix...

I'm using a gibson les paul studio w/ seymour duncan phat cat p90s, the amp's treble is at 3, mid at 2.5, bass is flat... Pre-gain is about 4 and post at 10. This setting isnt bad, its just when I turn the gain up or drive it with my fulltone boost that the bottom end becomes very muddy. Im not quite sure how to clean this sound up as it is really frusterating me.

I can't turn the treble or mid up any more then they already are without the sound getting muddier aswell... Ive been thinking that the guitar + p90s combo is generating a really top end signal???

Any suggestions/insight would be most appreciated!


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## Steve_F (Feb 15, 2008)

what kind of tubes are in your amp? sometimes cheap crappy tubes can give out a muddy tone. A speaker upgrade could really help alot too. The stock peavey speakers are pretty bland IMO.


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

If you have the opportunity, try playing the amp through a different speaker (closed-back cabinet would be best, I would think).

That would help you narrow down whether the problem is coming from the amp or the speaker.


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## Tawm! (Jan 11, 2008)

I have changed the speaker to something different. It is an open back cabinet and is mounted to a speaker stand, sitting 5' off the ground


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## Tawm! (Jan 11, 2008)

I am also using JJ tubes, brand new


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

i was going to suggest the 1x12 extension cab that's available. it's hard to compete with the bottom end from a two speaker combo.. it's just physics. the classic 30 is a good sounding amp, IME. you could also try renting or borrowing a 2x12 cab to try it through. of course, the vox tone is a good one. you might have to resort to buying a top hat amp, to make him jealous again... it's called keeping up with the joneses


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Tawm! said:


> My tone gets unbelievably muddy and it is quite hard to fix...
> 
> I'm using a gibson les paul studio w/ seymour duncan phat cat p90s, the amp's treble is at 3, mid at 2.5, bass is flat... Pre-gain is about 4 and post at 10.


turning up the treble and the mid doesnt make the tone more muddy... :S

treble: 7
mids: 7
bass: 3

try it. also, BRIDGE PICKUP. .

it might just be time for a new amp, because i can attest, being an LP studio owner, that guitar isnt muddy.

mud shouldnt be an issue with that amp.. hm. time for something with more headroom i suppose - used classic 50 212?


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## Tawm! (Jan 11, 2008)

Hey Budda, thanks for the suggestion... Here's my issue with replacing for a 212... I have 2x classic 30s that are mounted on speaker stands and used in a stereo set-up... I have to go with 1x12s so I can mount em up.

Are you suggesting that my amp is broken? Because my 2nd classic 30 does this aswel...


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## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

Have you tried another guitar? You mentioned having phat cat p-90's in your LP. Les Pauls really don't need pickups that fatten them up unless you are using an amp that doesn't break up easily. They are plenty fat naturally. Studios also have a darker sound by not having the maple cap. Maybe a less hot pickup would tame the beast and give a more articulate bottom end.

You might also try lowering the pickup height.


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## hoser (Feb 2, 2006)

adding a 112 closed back cab will do wonders. no more flab, lots of balls. just try it,.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

hoser said:


> adding a 112 closed back cab will do wonders. no more flab, lots of balls. just try it,.


+1 on that suggestion. sdsre


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## Tawm! (Jan 11, 2008)

Hey guys,

thanks again for your suggestions. Ill try closing the backs to my amps - im not sure if you caught what I said afore about how I cannot rid of my current set up.

Might you suggest any way to close the backs?


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Did I hear you right that you are running two in stereo but they are both 5 feet off the ground and the masters are on "10"????????

Yikes. I can't begin to imagine what that would sound like.

Bring them to the floor (or maybe a foot off - at least so you can see the knobs). Bring down those masters (I can't imagine needing them at more than "5 or "6"" if you're running two of them) flatten out all the EQ for starters and then see what you've got.

It would seem to me that up in the air like that there would be no bass - so you compensate by turning it up higher than the other tone controls. Pointing at your ears would cause the treble to be painful so you bring that down too much. With the masters on "10" you would be blasting that out through speakers and trannies that just can't handle it. No wonder you've got mud.

Don NOT close in the backs - that'd be a whole nuther' whack o' fish to fry.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Lester B. Flat said:


> Have you tried another guitar? You mentioned having phat cat p-90's in your LP. Les Pauls really don't need pickups that fatten them up unless you are using an amp that doesn't break up easily. They are plenty fat naturally. Studios also have a darker sound by not having the maple cap. Maybe a less hot pickup would tame the beast and give a more articulate bottom end.
> 
> You might also try lowering the pickup height.



les paul studio's DO have a maple cap! you almost gave me a heart attack!

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/divisions/gibson usa/products/lespaul/studio/


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## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

Budda said:


> les paul studio's DO have a maple cap! you almost gave me a heart attack!


 Your right. I recently saw an all mahogany one and assumed they were all like that.


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## Tawm! (Jan 11, 2008)

allthumbs56 said:


> Bring them to the floor (or maybe a foot off - at least so you can see the knobs). Bring down those masters (I can't imagine needing them at more than "5 or "6"" if you're running two of them) flatten out all the EQ for starters and then see what you've got.
> 
> It would seem to me that up in the air like that there would be no bass - so you compensate by turning it up higher than the other tone controls. Pointing at your ears would cause the treble to be painful so you bring that down too much. With the masters on "10" you would be blasting that out through speakers and trannies that just can't handle it. No wonder you've got mud.


You heard me right! Haha. I know where you are coming from, for sure. Here's the rest of the story... Rhythm player has a vox ac30 (loud), bassist has an ampeg stack and our drummer is loud. Our music is certainly lower gain driven rock, but I still need the volume. It actually mixes quite well as the Peaveys are not terribly loud on 10, gain at 5. We are playing in a really small crappy sounding jam space, so I'd imagine when we switch jam spots (4 weeks) it will be considerably better and I can drop the volume down a bit.

As for the the speaker height and EQ settings... I'll try lowering them tonight when I try out your suggestions... But there is method to my whackiness. In venues our mix sounds amazing, I get mic'ed up in a stereo setting and all is swell. 

What are you talking about, 'trannies' ??? Im not following... If anything, driving the amps to 10 with the gain and eq low makes for ideal tube drive settings? No? My amp only gets muddy when I increase the eq settings slightly, thats what Im trying to determine... 

Ill try your suggestions out and see what happens, I think its my p90s...


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Tawm! said:


> You heard me right! Haha. I know where you are coming from, for sure. Here's the rest of the story... Rhythm player has a vox ac30 (loud), bassist has an ampeg stack and our drummer is loud. Our music is certainly lower gain driven rock, but I still need the volume. It actually mixes quite well as the Peaveys are not terribly loud on 10, gain at 5. We are playing in a really small crappy sounding jam space, so I'd imagine when we switch jam spots (4 weeks) it will be considerably better and I can drop the volume down a bit.
> 
> As for the the speaker height and EQ settings... I'll try lowering them tonight when I try out your suggestions... But there is method to my whackiness. In venues our mix sounds amazing, I get mic'ed up in a stereo setting and all is swell.
> 
> ...


I've only used a Classic 30 a couple of times (and the AC30 for that matter) so I'm kinda speaking in general terms. While the AC30 is known to be a loud 30 watter, the Classic 30 (also rated at 30 watts) is no slouch either. In practice, you should be generating twice the power (using a pair in stereo). By setting your post-gain/masters on full, your telling the amp to blast out whatever you're feeding it to the max but with the way you've eq'd the amp, you've cut the mids and highs (where guitars live) and feeding the power amp a relatively high bass signal, which, in turn may seem subdued to your ears because you've got the cabs so high off the ground. So what you've got is too much bass cranking flat out through the power amp. The "trannies" - the power transformers have to generate the power to drive the speakers - and it takes a whole lot of power to generate the low-end. You're asking a lot of the setup.

By bringing the amps closer to the ground or nearer a wall or both you let the room work with the bass more, and bring the high-end a little further from your ears. Then you can bring up the mids and highs and get youe guitar cutting through the mix like it should.

You should be able to make this work. I regularly use 2 12 watt Fender Princetons in stereo and have never had to compete to be heard over others.

I just can't imagine the Vox pushing more air than two Classic 30's. You could also try them side-by-each on the floor beside the Vox with some mids and treble - they should more than hold their own.

BTW, I watched your video at the Spoke. Brought back memories - I used to play there on acoustic back in the late 70's.



Good luck with it!


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## Tawm! (Jan 11, 2008)

allthumbs56 said:


> I've only used a Classic 30 a couple of times (and the AC30 for that matter) so I'm kinda speaking in general terms. While the AC30 is known to be a loud 30 watter, the Classic 30 (also rated at 30 watts) is no slouch either. In practice, you should be generating twice the power (using a pair in stereo). By setting your post-gain/masters on full, your telling the amp to blast out whatever you're feeding it to the max but with the way you've eq'd the amp, you've cut the mids and highs (where guitars live) and feeding the power amp a relatively high bass signal, which, in turn may seem subdued to your ears because you've got the cabs so high off the ground. So what you've got is too much bass cranking flat out through the power amp. The "trannies" - the power transformers have to generate the power to drive the speakers - and it takes a whole lot of power to generate the low-end. You're asking a lot of the setup.
> 
> By bringing the amps closer to the ground or nearer a wall or both you let the room work with the bass more, and bring the high-end a little further from your ears. Then you can bring up the mids and highs and get youe guitar cutting through the mix like it should.
> 
> BTW, I watched your video at the Spoke. Brought back memories - I used to play there on acoustic back in the late 70's.


Thanks very much for elaborating on your points - I'll definetly try some different things tonight and see how it goes, again, really appreciate it!

You saw a video of me at the spoke?! lol where did you see this?? Thats crazy that you used to play there! What was it like?


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Tawm! said:


> Thanks very much for elaborating on your points - I'll definetly try some different things tonight and see how it goes, again, really appreciate it!
> 
> You saw a video of me at the spoke?! lol where did you see this?? Thats crazy that you used to play there! What was it like?


Went to the videos on your "Myspace" site. The one I saw was entitled something like "Our first gig ever - battle of the bands at the Spoke".

I went to UWO from 78' to 81' and spent many a good night/afternoon in the Spoke. Played there on occasion as well as other "coffee-house-type places" in the city. Played every year during Frosh week in the Quad at Sydenham Hall for a 10-case payment - great memories.

Anyway, good luck with your setup. My "area" is mostly old-school rock and I'm certainly no expert (unless 40 years worth of making myself heard above the general racket counts).


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## hoser (Feb 2, 2006)

I used a classic 30 + 112 cab (traynor 112) in a loud rock band for 3 years. the other guitar player had an ac30. I never had the master above 5.5 and that was playing in an unmic'ed club. I can't imagine running 2 of them on 10. ouch.

seriously, unhook one of them and try a closed back 112 ext cab with the classic.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Same experience here. Adding a cab makes a difference. The other guy I play with has a Lonestar Classic and we get loud sometimes and I've never had any issues cutting through the mix. And I don't even use the cab when we're rehearsing. I think sometimes you need to find yourself a spot within the mix, sometimes a little tweak on the mids makes a difference. I find if I can get to a spot no one occupies, I don't have to play loud just to get heard.


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## Tawm! (Jan 11, 2008)

By lowering the amps' height by 2 feet each, increasing the treble and bass slightly, and by lowering the gain from 6 to 5.5 I've found an absolutely amazing setting for the amp. Nothing is muddy, everything is punchy and super clear, the tone is absolutely amazing.

I wanted to say thanks to you all for your help, I'm rediculously excited about my tone now, can't wait to try it on sat night's gig! Cheers guys!


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## Tawm! (Jan 11, 2008)

...volume is still cranked too


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

where are you playing?

*looks at jsx* i'll come on over and drown you out LOL


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