# Reluctently Considering Epi Les Paul



## gretschie (Jan 11, 2012)

Man, what a decision....part with my rarely played 2012 Gibson Les Paul Traditional pro and get a cheaper version in the Epiphone line..

I'm more of a fender tele/strat single coil player, and yet the les pauls with buckers have their place and unique sound, that constitutes owning one for certain songs..

I've grown accustomed to the chunkier 50's neck profiles and at our local L&M they have a few really nicely flame topped Epi Trad pros and for the price, its has my interest up.. although I haven't picked them up to feel their D neck profile, as I hoped to not have to get a thinner standard C/60's profile if I could help it....nor have I been much of a fan of coil split humbuckers, especially Burstbuckers,,

it hardly warrants {at least for me} to have this much money tied up in the Gibby when I don't use it all that much and wondered what you guys think of the Epi's in comparison.. I've heard the older MIJ Elitists are fantastic players, but rare finds..

Appreciate your constructive responses guys, thank you


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

If your heart is set on Elitist or other MIJ LP's, they do show up on the Jij now and then and the Alerts feature is quite handy. 

You can also pick up new Japanese made guitars if you buy online (Edwards, FGN etc) 
If I'm not mistaken, a new Edwards will run you about 1K, shipped


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

One of my future projects is to pick up a bolt-on neck Epiphone Les Paul, and upgrade the pickups, wiring, and tuners. For about $400 I will have a dynamite rhythm guitar!


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## mrfiftyfour (Jun 29, 2008)

Put the epi down and walk away. You already have the real thing at home. Appreciate what you have, cause you'll regret getting rid of the LP when it's gone.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Telecaster Thinline with 2 humbuckers, Godin LG, Gretsch, that's how I deal with it. No LP required.

Peace, Mooh.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Before you buy an epi, you might want to check out a Prestige heritage.... about the same price and a much better fit and finish.


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

Terrible idea. By the time you have sold on the used market (or worse, traded in) your Gibson Traditional and bought the "equivalent" new Epiphone at L&M, you will have little money left for your effort and you'll be playing a much inferior guitar with a neck you may not like as much.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Pattste beat me to the punch. The value of your Gibson is probably a lot lower than you think.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Here you go...for a 1/3 of the cost of what you'll get for your G. I bet you could get it for $500

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-guitar/winds...ij/1123516810?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

Maybe you could pick it up and compare....sell the one you think is the worst value for the dollar


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Scotty said:


> Here you go...for a 1/3 of the cost of what you'll get for your G. I bet you could get it for $500
> 
> http://www.kijiji.ca/v-guitar/winds...ij/1123516810?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
> 
> Maybe you could pick it up and compare....sell the one you think is the worst value for the dollar


I only paid $700 for my USA LP Studio, and that was from L&M, the deals are out there if you're patient.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I know of an LP studio in London for not too much more than Dave paid for his


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Just realized you were in London, LOL. If you'd like to check out my LP Studio let me know. At least you'll know if it will give you what you're after.

edit - or Budda's of course


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Mine is sitting in Toronto currently, so yes try Dave's haha.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I picked up a used Epiphone Les Paul Slash Signature on Craig's List for $300.00. It is an amazing guitar. Long tenon neck join, very nice tuners, Seymour Duncan Alnico II Slash pickups. You'd be hard pressed to find a nicer Gibson Les Paul for less than $1,500.


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## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

There was the earlier "Elite" series which were nicer than the Elitist.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Wileyone said:


> There was the earlier "Elite" series which were nicer than the Elitist.


There were two Epiphone "Elites"

One was a late 90s florentine MIK model and in 2002, the introduced the high quality MIJ Elite which was identical to the Elitist in 2003 or 2004. AFAIK, the only reason for the name change was over a legal dispute with Ovation who was already using "Elite"


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## sliberty (May 17, 2008)

Resale of your Gibson aside....

I have two recent Epiphones. One is an ES-335 Pro, which has a D shaped neck profile, and Alnico Classic pickups. I love this guitar, although I didn't love the split coil tones or the Asian made pots. So I rewired with full size CTS pots, Mallory caps, Switchcraft switch and jack, cost me about $50 for the parts. In doing so, I changed the wiring scheme to my favorite 50's wiring, and now the guitar is exactly as I would want it to be. The other is a Les Paul Std Plus Top Pro which has a nice fat rounded profile neck, and Probucker pickups. I rewired this one too. But let me tell you, the neck is glorious. It is very similar to my VOS Junior and my VOS Special, except that the Epi neck grows more as you go up the neck. The Probuckers sound really good, and the workmanship on both guitars are great.

In buying the LP, I put my hand around the necks of each Epi on the rack, until my hand hit this one. All of the others were thin, and a little flat on the back. But this one jumped out at me. The only other Epi LP that had a similar neck that day was an Ebony finished 56 RI. Lovely guitar, but I have enough P90's already 

So, all in all, I think that the Epi pro series guitars are wonderful, and compare favorably to much higher priced guitars. The changes I made were dud to my own preferences, not quality issues. The only exception might be the push pull pots (one of them broke while I was removing the knob).


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

The Elite are merely a bit more rare, as they had to change the name early on.
They were all made in the same factory, along with the MIJ Epiphones.

They're all nice guitars.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Wileyone said:


> There was the earlier "Elite" series which were nicer than the Elitist.


You better have a good back the Elite was one heavy guitar.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Distortion said:


> You better have a good back the Elite was one heavy guitar.


Well there's a blanket statement.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

If it was me, I'd keep the Gibson.

I've heard lots of people say they have Epis that match or exceed a good Gibson LP.

I have yet to play one that supported that assertion.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Those two MIJ Epis were great guitars, I'd put them up against any Gibson I played.


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## gretschie (Jan 11, 2012)

A bit late to the party here guys and thanks for all the great replies..

As I mentioned already, yes the Gibson Trad I currently own is a gorgeous player, but simply doesn't justify the money I have in it to warrant keeping it for all it gets used, yet I still want a bucker guitar in the stable..

Hearing Tab Benoit soulfully playing Shelter Me on his dual bucker 72' Thinline , I'd be lying if I said I hadn't thought of looking into one, but I still prefer that extra 1/16" nut width opposed to 5/8" but certainly not a deal breaker..

I try Not to purchase new so I don't lose the depreciation if and when it comes time to sell it, but with the Epis even at new price, their still priced reasonable enough, i wouldn't lose that badly if the time came to part with it..

Regarding the new Epi trad pro and their less than pleasing {at least to me} coil split and alpha pots, without a question, that would all come out in one big blob and rewired with a set of Wolfetones Dr V neck and Marshallhead MKII bridge, CTS pots and cloth wire.. 

Now just to find the right replacement


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Have you considered a PRS SE 245? I do not have one, but I have been browsing dozens of reviews and there was only one negative review and it happened to be very rare PRS quality issues IMO. They sell for 799 to 879 new but you can find them for around 600 used. These apparently don't just get you in the LP ballpark but the infield.


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## sliberty (May 17, 2008)

Don't rush 


gretschie said:


> A bit late to the party here guys and thanks for all the great replies..
> 
> As I mentioned already, yes the Gibson Trad I currently own is a gorgeous player, but simply doesn't justify the money I have in it to warrant keeping it for all it gets used, yet I still want a bucker guitar in the stable..
> 
> ...


o replace the pickups on an Epi Trad Pro. They are good on their own, and you might like them. Give it a little time and then decide, but by all means replace the wiring harness. Nothing special there.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Why doesn't the guitar justify the cost? What to you makes the epiphone the better purchase when all signs point to the opposite?


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Budda said:


> Why doesn't the guitar justify the cost? What to you makes the epiphone the better purchase when all signs point to the opposite?


What defines "better'?

That answer will vary depending on who's asked.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I think what he's saying is that he's not really an LP guy and having a chunk of dough tied up in one doesn't make sense for him. I can appreciate that.

That being said. I would also suggest finding a nice used Studio for only a bit more than a new Epi. In fact you might even be able to swap with someone who wants to trade up and pocket some dough on your end.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

actually, a studio will go for less than some new epiphones.


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

I have an Epiphone Elitist SG that plays and sounds as good as any US. Plus, the wood is absolutely beeeyootiful.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Scotty, "better " is quality of materials, craftsmanship and attention to detail. This is usually agreed upon.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

gretschie said:


> Regarding the new Epi trad pro and their less than pleasing {at least to me} coil split and alpha pots, without a question, that would all come out in one big blob and rewired with a set of Wolfetones Dr V neck and Marshallhead MKII bridge, CTS pots and cloth wire..
> 
> Now just to find the right replacement


But by then won't you be into it for about 80% of what you'll get for the LP? Is the immediate savings worth it, to end up with a guitar that is worth that much less when resale time comes?


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Budda said:


> Scotty, "better " is quality of materials, craftsmanship and attention to detail. This is usually agreed upon.


Agreed, however what I meant is what is the better _buy_. (My choice of wording was a little on the short side) I see this sort of like comparing buying a car. Lets say you want a performance car that thrills you however your sensibility tells you that a Camaro or Mustang is a better choice than say a Ferrari or Porsche. Undoubtedly the latter are much better quality, but you can drive the cheaper ones like you stole them, upgrade them for a little more so they scare the hell out of you and get the best bang for your buck....have just as much fun and perhaps more. It might cost you $500 per Sunday drive vs $5000 per outing.

So for the intended purpose of the purchase, the better buy is not necessarily governed by quality alone.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

i think high/deaf has a good summary of which is the better buy via his cost of mods post above yours. If you're spending an extra $500 (wolfetones aren't cheap) after you buy the cheaper guitar, why didn't you just buy a good $1200 guitar to begin with?


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Budda said:


> i think high/deaf has a good summary of which is the better buy via his cost of mods post above yours. If you're spending an extra $500 (wolfetones aren't cheap) after you buy the cheaper guitar, why didn't you just buy a good $1200 guitar to begin with?


...then still put the Wolftone into it. 8)


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i don't see the financial gain of selling a guitar you like and taking a loss, picking up a lesser guitar with what's left, and spending a portion of that difference to upgrade it to your standards. when it's all said and done, you've downgraded your instrument, and not recouped any significant money. epi makes some nice upgradeable instruments, but if you already have a guitar you like, then keep it


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

sulphur said:


> ...then still put the Wolftone into it. 8)


+1 they'll still be an upgrade over just about any stock Gibson USA pup.

I'm also in the "don't do it man" camp. About 10-12 yrs ago I wasted a lot of time & money trying to beat the man by buying used Epis & then upgrading everything. Took a major bath on resale & only 2 of the guitars were any good to begin with.

The recent lower end Gibsons have all left me cold, I would look for an older used Studio, Epi Elistist, maybe even an SG Special or Faded + cash & then drop in the better electronics (assuming you already have those on hand). 

PRS SE series are also great bang for the buck - the Bernie Marsden is the closest to LP specs (a little thicker body than most PRS guitars).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Those all make sense - if you didn't already own an LP you were going to sell to buy one. Seems to me the used guitar market is soft right now, so no one is probably _making_ money selling a fairly recent purchase, are they?


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

I wouldn't sell it to buy a lesser guitar just to say you have a Les Paul ish guitar. You have a Gibson, enjoy it.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

The OP said in his first post that he likes the feel of his lester now, but also really likes teles and strats.

Option a) keep your Gibson (I think most of GC says go with this one)
option b) Build a tele-paul. Mahogany body and neck, stoptail/TOM bridge, 24.75, two humbuckers. This won't sound quite like an LP but will give you familiarity and bridge the two worlds a bit. You will lose money if you ever go to sell it, but it is a good compromise.


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## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

Sometimes we don't realize what we have till it's gone. 

Or... It's ok to "Thin the Herd" but try and keep the Bloodline intact.


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## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

High/Deaf said:


> . Seems to me the used guitar market is soft right now, so no one is probably _making_ money selling a fairly recent purchase, are they?


I have sold 5 guitars in the last 6 months. I have broken even or made $100-200 profit on my sales. The increased cost to buy new, due to the USD, or no longer available to purchase new; has made it possible to sell to the right buyer for my asking price. The last 2 were sold on Kijiji, where several were kind enough to inform me that I was asking too much, and they would never sell. I guess they were wrong.

However, I would not sell a Les Paul that feels right, to buy a lesser guitar that feels right and needs a cash infusion to attempt to make it better. I already have enough of those. I now prefer to buy the right guitar. One that doesn't need to be modified. I am not a Les Paul enthusiast, but if you need to have one in the collection, it should be the real thing.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Budda said:


> The OP said in his first post that he likes the feel of his lester now, but also really likes teles and strats.
> 
> option b) Build a tele-paul. Mahogany body and neck, stoptail/TOM bridge, 24.75, two humbuckers. This won't sound quite like an LP but will give you familiarity and bridge the two worlds a bit. You will lose money if you ever go to sell it, but it is a good compromise.


This is the best suggestion in the whole thread...brilliant


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## DrumBob (Aug 17, 2014)

pattste said:


> Terrible idea. By the time you have sold on the used market (or worse, traded in) your Gibson Traditional and bought the "equivalent" new Epiphone at L&M, you will have little money left for your effort and you'll be playing a much inferior guitar with a neck you may not like as much.


Excuse me, but have you played an Epiphone Les Paul Traditional Pro recently? I have; quite a few of them, in fact, and it's a well made, versatile guitar; bright airy humbuckers, nice fat neck, coil tapping, not too heavy, and it played great and stayed in tune. I had one, and foolishly sold it, because I have two "better" Gibson Les Pauls. I'd buy another Epi Trad Pro in a heartbeat.

Go play one, then tell me and everbody else that it's "inferior." I'd wager you've even never picked one up for a test run. Am I right? If that's the case, then you're dead wrong, and making a blanket statement based upon ignorance.


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## DrumBob (Aug 17, 2014)

Accidental bump.


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

DrumBob said:


> Excuse me, but have you played an Epiphone Les Paul Traditional Pro recently? I have; quite a few of them, in fact, and it's a well made, versatile guitar; bright airy humbuckers, nice fat neck, coil tapping, not too heavy, and it played great and stayed in tune. I had one, and foolishly sold it, because I have two "better" Gibson Les Pauls. I'd buy another Epi Trad Pro in a heartbeat.
> 
> Go play one, then tell me and everbody else that it's "inferior." I'd wager you've even never picked one up for a test run. Am I right? If that's the case, then you're dead wrong, and making a blanket statement based upon ignorance.


Well, you're wrong. I have tried the Epi Trad Pro. I have also owned an Epiphone Les Paul Standard, an Epiphone Sheraton II and an Epiphone Emperor Regent. I upgraded the last two with boutique pickups (Duncan Antiquity and Bill Lawrence floating pickup respectively) and they were respectable guitars. In fact the Sheraton II (a Korean model) could hold its own against many more expensive guitars.

But they were not Gibsons.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

DrumBob said:


> Excuse me, but have you played an Epiphone Les Paul Traditional Pro recently? I have; quite a few of them, in fact, and it's a well made, versatile guitar; bright airy humbuckers, nice fat neck, coil tapping, not too heavy, and it played great and stayed in tune. I had one, and foolishly sold it, because I have two "better" Gibson Les Pauls. I'd buy another Epi Trad Pro in a heartbeat.
> 
> Go play one, then tell me and everbody else that it's "inferior." I'd wager you've even never picked one up for a test run. Am I right? If that's the case, then you're dead wrong, and making a blanket statement based upon ignorance.


I fear that many people look down their noses at Epiphone because they get lost in the Gibson reverence or because they played a low end Epi and never considered that the upper level models could be built and play so well. Even the Elitists fall into the cast off category by those who have never played them (Automatic association with the E line being inferior) Even the OP's title implies in the title that he too feels it wont be measured up, or that his choice will be ill-regarded by the nay-sayers

I'm not bashing Gibson, but I've played scores. Never found one yet that made me feel it was worth $1500 more than my Elitist. I don't feel there's more than a few hundred dollars difference between them in TRUE value. And in the meantime, I'll enjoy the high end Epis at a 3rd of the cost. More savings = more toys. I can own three Elitists to one Gibson. That is value that cannot be argued

So OP, go find an Epi or other single/doublecut that blows you away for a fraction of the price and feel good about your purchase without having to lament the fact it isnt the holy grail. There's TONS of choices out there...MIJ, Agiles, PRS, you name it...


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## DrumBob (Aug 17, 2014)

pattste said:


> Well, you're wrong. I have tried the Epi Trad Pro. I have also owned an Epiphone Les Paul Standard, an Epiphone Sheraton II and an Epiphone Emperor Regent. I upgraded the last two with boutique pickups (Duncan Antiquity and Bill Lawrence floating pickup respectively) and they were respectable guitars. In fact the Sheraton II (a Korean model) could hold its own against many more expensive guitars.
> 
> But they were not Gibsons.


OK, maybe you have a bit of experience with Epiphones after all, but you sir, still exhibit that misguided and pointless Gibson snobbery that goes around forums, mostly from bedroom corksniffers who haven't had a paying gig in twenty years or more.

Try this on for size; I bought a Gibson LP tribute Goldtop a few years ago, but the neck was bad. It kept twisting and warping, no matter how it was adjusted. I sent it back to Gibson, and they replaced it with another, and that guitar had the same issue and played like crap. I finally sold it and bought the Epiphone verion, the '56 Goldtop, which kicked both Gibsons in the ass in almost every way imaginable. I swapped out the pickups. That's the only mod. I still have it.

And just for the record, I've owned at least ten Gibson Les Pauls over the years and still have three. There are good Epiphones out there. And very bad Gibsons.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Scotty said:


> I fear that many people look down their noses at Epiphone because they get lost in the Gibson reverence or because they played a low end Epi and never considered that the upper level models could be built and play so well. Even the Elitists fall into the cast off category by those who have never played them (Automatic association with the E line being inferior) Even the OP's title implies in the title that he too feels it wont be measured up, or that his choice will be ill-regarded by the nay-sayers
> 
> I'm not bashing Gibson, but I've played scores. Never found one yet that made me feel it was worth $1500 more than my Elitist. I don't feel there's more than a few hundred dollars difference between them in TRUE value. *And in the meantime, I'll enjoy the high end Epis at a 3rd of the cost. More savings = more toys. I can own three Elitists to one Gibson. That is value that cannot be argued*
> 
> So OP, go find an Epi or other single/doublecut that blows you away for a fraction of the price and feel good about your purchase without having to lament the fact it isnt the holy grail. There's TONS of choices out there...MIJ, Agiles, PRS, you name it...


I think high end Epi's are great, but they aren't cheap anymore. There was a time, but I'm not seeing any MIJ Epi's for less than $1200 to $1500. That would make that Gibson (at 3X) cost $3600 to $4500, so used CS prices. You can get a usa Gibby LP for <$2k all day long, not much more than the MIJ's really. And like it or not, the usa still has more consistent resale value. At least for now.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

There is a Goldtop R7 for $2800 at the guitar shop in GTA right now:

http://www.theguitarshop.ca/used-gibson-les-paul-r7-goldtop/

If you want to switch it up.


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

DrumBob said:


> OK, maybe you have a bit of experience with Epiphones after all, but you sir, still exhibit that misguided and pointless Gibson snobbery that goes around forums, mostly from bedroom corksniffers who haven't had a paying gig in twenty years or more.


Ok. Whatever.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

DrumBob said:


> There are good Epiphones out there. And very bad Gibsons.


This thread is a repeat of many, many other similar "discussions" we have suffered through in the past.

There are also great Gibsons out there and Epiphones that are very bad. 
Live and let live....AND...play and let play!



pattste said:


> Ok. Whatever.


The response of a gentle man (controlling his emotions and keeping his blood pressure down).
I could certainly learn a lot from you and admire you, sir.

Dave


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

greco said:


> The response of a gentle man (controlling his emotions and keeping his blood pressure down).
> I could certainly learn a lot from you and admire you, sir.


Not sure if you're being sarcastic?

Despite his thinly veiled insults and passive aggresiveness, I have nothing against DrumBob. I just can't be bothered to argue with him. Many years ago I used to hold similar opinions on the subject. I was convinced my Epiphone were great guitars that rivalled anything out there. I'd like to think that I have developed an appreciation for better instruments. Call it cork-sniffery if you want. Those who can't tell the difference are saving a lot of money.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

pattste said:


> Not sure if you're being sarcastic?
> 
> Despite his thinly veiled insults and passive aggressiveness, I have nothing against DrumBob. I just can't be bothered to argue with him. Many years ago I used to hold similar opinions on the subject. I was convinced my Epiphone were great guitars that rivalled anything out there. I'd like to think that I have developed an appreciation for better instruments. Call it cork-sniffery if you want. Those who can't tell the difference are saving a lot of money.


No..I'm being totally honest!!

I have also lost the enthusiasm for arguing and confrontation.

Hence ......Live and let live....AND...play and let play!


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm confused...



8D


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Gibson is better than Epiphone, people are just jealous. 

Pish.
[Cork sniffing nose high in the air]

I'll leave the rest of the jerrycan here and see myself out.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

High/Deaf said:


> I think high end Epi's are great, but they aren't cheap anymore. There was a time, but I'm not seeing any MIJ Epi's for less than $1200 to $1500. That would make that Gibson (at 3X) cost $3600 to $4500, so used CS prices. You can get a usa Gibby LP for <$2k all day long, not much more than the MIJ's really. And like it or not, the usa still has more consistent resale value. At least for now.


I suppose it depends on where you look. I set "Ontario" as my kijiji search setting which turns up more returns. It means you may have to drive further...but yes, it seems tougher to find MIJ LPs, especially Elitists. Ebay pricing is usually retarded. This one looks great but is starting to run over what its worth after exchange and shipping...http://www.ebay.com/itm/Epiphone-Elitist-Standard-Plus-/231776632485

I think Elitist resale values are good at the moment, though I agree that Gibson's do have a better resale market (more buyers, better known name)


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

More reasonably priced MIJ's;
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-guitar/city-...ij/1122265829?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true WISH I HAD THE SPARE CAKE

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-guitar/hamil...an/1116753905?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


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## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

And to totally Screw things up... What about a Schecter PT Tele?


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

sulphur said:


> I'm confused...
> 
> 
> 
> 8D



I'm confused...as to why you sold it!


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

sulphur said:


> I'm confused...
> 
> 
> 
> 8D


Let me clear up the confusion. This is a Gibson. The trussrod cover makes it one. You can easily confirm this by looking at Kijiji and Craigslist. I mean, who hasn't answered an ad for a $700 Gibson Les Paul only to find out it was an Epiphone by Gibson Les Paul.


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2015)

sulphur said:


> I'm confused...
> 
> 
> 
> 8D


MIJ? Not for export?


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

pattste said:


> Let me clear up the confusion. This is a Gibson. The trussrod cover makes it one. You can easily confirm this by looking at Kijiji and Craigslist. I mean, who hasn't answered an ad for a $700 Gibson Les Paul only to find out it was an Epiphone by Gibson Les Paul.


That is an Epiphone LQ or JDM, and $700 would be well worth it IMO.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Yes, Epi for the domestic Japanese market, not EbG, different guitars.

From what I know, those were built along side the Elitists, It think from '98-02, or something like that.
I had two, those are the guitars that I'd put up against a Gibson, they're really good guitars.
I've gravitated to thicker necks, or I'd still own them.

If you can find them, then find them for $700, let me know.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

sulphur said:


> Yes, Epi for the domestic Japanese market, not EbG, different guitars.
> 
> From what I know, those were built along side the Elitists, It think from '98-02, or something like that.
> 
> If you can find them, then find them for $700, let me know.


Elitist LP and SG production can from 2002 to 2008, not sure if JDM ran before or after that date. The Elitist Casino continued production beyond that and is still in production now (AFAIK)

A


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I got that info here, I think what I had were *LPS-80s*...http://epiphonewiki.com/index.php/Epiphone_Japan


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

sulphur said:


> I got that info here, I think what I had were *LPS-80s*...http://epiphonewiki.com/index.php/Epiphone_Japan


Well you just made my day! That means there's man more years of production available, meaning more MIJ Epis out there for purchase....

Excellent link. I thought JDM's ran at the same time as the Elite/Elitists. Now I understand where the differences in the width of the head stocks come from. Thanks for the clarification. 
I have been Epiphone Edumificated! lol


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2015)

Have you seen cifac88's Agile 'for sale' thread?


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## gretschie (Jan 11, 2012)

Late to the party here guys, but i had a chance to go down to London south L&M to test drive that Epi Les Paul Trad Pro and what a beauty to look at but I wasn't in the least impressed with the D neck profile. I'm sorry if others take offence by this but it simply felt cheap. I wanted to like it but I'd never buy one to replace my gibby with


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## gretschie (Jan 11, 2012)

Funny about the Gibson Les Paul tribute someone has not had good experience with. I bought a 2011 60's tribute LP Worn honeyburst and man I never cared for that plain Jane finish but that little guitar was a dream to play. It sounded great, so much so that I traded a custom acoustic for a 60's tribute goldtop that was next to brand new. Felt great but no matter what I did to that guitar it was tonally dead. My honeyburst rang and that goldtop was sure a disappointment!! I changed pots caps strings and pickups and finally I sold it but I had high hopes for it. I just sold the honeyburst before Christmas as I wasn't a huge fan of P90's.


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## gretschie (Jan 11, 2012)

from what I've been reading the MIJ Epi Elitsts les Paul's that now Most in my opinion are overpriced from what they originally sold for. But I'd love to get my hands on one with a 50's neck office to try as they seem to have great reviews.

Wondering if the only difference between the Standards and Studios is less bling. ie, binding diamond on headstock and block inlays VS dot and plainer maple tops. But for $600 for a MIJ Epi studio compared to $1100-$1500, the studio has my interest which could change once I try it.

Altough I like the Gibson LP trad I currently own, which still needed work to get it to where it is now, I feel unless a person spends big money, gibsons quality has gone down the tubes in recent years.

For years I wanted a 335 and of course nothing to buy but a legendary Gibson,, I shelled out $3800 for a new 2013 Block inlay model from L&M. 1rst string wouldn't stay on fretboard, Major tuning issues plus the frets were Anything but level, and this was my first experience with the infamous Burstbuckers. What a klunker. I sent that guitar back three times to resolve tuning and fret board issues and that was my first and last time the "tech" from that company would ever lay hands on my guitars because it repeatedly came back no better. I took it to a well know local luthier, who cut and installed a new bone nut and levelled crowned and polished the frets. Then $425 later that guitar it finally played fine. It still sounded terrible so I bought a set of Seth Lovers, RS Guitar works 550K pots and caps. Did the work myself and then the guitar finally started to come alive. By that time I lost all love I had for that expensive guitar that I now had about $4600 into and less than a year later I was offered $2000 to trade it back in. Sold it for $2650 in a private sale. The average person would think something of that value should've never left the factory in that condition and yet every single Gibson within the past 10yrs I've bought either had uneven frets and nuts that needed work. Sure I suppose maybe the average unsuspecting person walking into a guitar store with a pocket full of cash just having to have the big G might never be the wiser but to a person who knows how a properly setup guitar should feel sound and play might see things differently.

So no I'm not loyal to Gibson and if I'm able to find and gel eith an elitist (that I do have my sights set on) that feels right to me... Well.

As far as putting a fender type guitar together with LP attributes just because I enjoy fenders, if and when the time comes to sell it, another illustrious bath I'd take but I appreciate the advice just the same.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

You can get the Gibson LP studio for $800 though. I'm still sad I didn't get that (after fees) for mine, with the upgrades I had done to it.


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## gretschie (Jan 11, 2012)

I know sure there's a 2004 Elitist studio right now for asking price of $600 and thinking of going to look at it. 

Any idea what neck profile it might have. The seller sent me the approx measurements from top of fretboard to underside (not including frets) 

1st fret: 1.7" wide X .800" thick
5th fret: 1.8" wide X .850" thick
12th fret: 2.1" wide X 1" thick


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

gretschie said:


> I know sure there's a 2004 Elitist studio right now for asking price of $600 and thinking of going to look at it.
> 
> Any idea what neck profile it might have. The seller sent me the approx measurements from top of fretboard to underside (not including frets)
> 
> ...


If you are talking about the black studio, its same profile I have. My specs are close to what he's given. Its not what I'd call chunky, but not slim either. 
If you want chunky, look for the '06 models and up.


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

gretschie said:


> The average person would think something of that value should've never left the factory in that condition and yet every single Gibson within the past 10yrs I've bought either had uneven frets and nuts that needed work.


And yet you still went ahead and bought them. I have seen my fair share of Gibson guitars with quality control issues but I have never bought any. The three that I own are perfect. If people put their money where their mouth is and only bought the good ones (or bought another brand instead), Gibson would get the message.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

gretschie said:


> from what I've been reading the MIJ Epi Elitsts les Paul's that now Most in my opinion are overpriced from what they originally sold for. But I'd love to get my hands on one with a 50's neck office to try as they seem to have great reviews.
> 
> 
> For years I wanted a 335 and of course nothing to buy but a legendary Gibson,, I shelled out $3800 for a new 2013 Block inlay model from L&M. 1rst string wouldn't stay on fretboard, Major tuning issues plus the frets were Anything but level, and this was my first experience with the infamous Burstbuckers. What a klunker. I sent that guitar back three times to resolve tuning and fret board issues and that was my first and last time the "tech" from that company would ever lay hands on my guitars because it repeatedly came back no better. I took it to a well know local luthier, who cut and installed a new bone nut and levelled crowned and polished the frets. Then $425 later that guitar it finally played fine. It still sounded terrible so I bought a set of Seth Lovers, RS Guitar works 550K pots and caps. Did the work myself and then the guitar finally started to come alive. By that time I lost all love I had for that expensive guitar that I now had about $4600 into and less than a year later I was offered $2000 to trade it back in. Sold it for $2650 in a private sale. The average person would think something of that value should've never left the factory in that condition and yet every single Gibson within the past 10yrs I've bought either had uneven frets and nuts that needed work. Sure I suppose maybe the average unsuspecting person walking into a guitar store with a pocket full of cash just having to have the big G might never be the wiser but to a person who knows how a properly setup guitar should feel sound and play might see things differently.
> ...


Consider the amount of good cash you have thrown at bad, ask yourself again if Elitists or other MIJ's are truly overpriced. I'd never consider Gibson again after the boatload of issues you have had.


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## jazzalta (Aug 3, 2006)

rhh7 said:


> One of my future projects is to pick up a bolt-on neck Epiphone Les Paul, and upgrade the pickups, wiring, and tuners. For about $400 I will have a dynamite rhythm guitar!


I am doing that now with an Epi SG.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Dave just posted this PSA...http://www.guitarscanada.com/index....ist-w-plus-top-and-ohsc-in-waterloo-on.77288/


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## Jim9guitars (Feb 15, 2016)

I'm coming in late on this but you might want to look into 4 wire humbuckers for your Les Paul. I had a set of "Dual Sound" humbuckers made by D'Marzzio in a mid 70's Gold Top (pictured in my avatar) that you could either do a coil tap for different tones or make them switchable between single and double coil. If you used pull pot switches you could still keep the integrity of the guitar intact. I used it when I played in a band that covered ZZ Top and Dire Straits, among other artists(and a few originals). I could get the Billy Gibbons crunch and the Mark Knopfler clean strat sound with the flick of a switch, well, close enough anyway. This does raise another point though, I learned early on that audiences aren't that critical about these details. On a night when I broke a string on my Les Paul in the first song of the set I finished the rest of the set with my stock SG and not one member of the audience said "hey, you can't play Dire Straits with a humbucker guitar"!


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## JimiGuy7 (Jan 10, 2008)

Did you ever decide? If your heart is set on getting rid of the LP Traditional, then you may regret what you get in an Epi. They are good guitars, but (as I imagine you know) your LP is a superior beast. You will probably take a pretty good hit when you sell the Trad as well. 

Other people have suggested some of the Japanese Les Pauls, Orville, Burny, Tokai, Edwards, etc... They are high quality instruments. I personally prefer them to the cheaper Gibson options and more expensive Epi ones. I have owned/played both.

A chum of mine has an Elitist Standard. Not a bad guitar, but for the price, tone and performance I would take my Orville any day of the week.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

In this market, I would ABSOLUTELY find the Epi I liked 1st, then wait and see if I feel the same in 6 months before selling.


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## gretschie (Jan 11, 2012)

Ya know it's funny how we can slowly over time become so loyal to certain brands, even if their quality takes a pitiful dive while their prices exponentially increase, some will still blindly follow them no matter what, because of the almighty name on that headstock..

How many loyal followers, go out and buy a guitar no matter the price, and as long as its eye candy and feels ok, home it goes.. I'd be willing to bet the large majority of average players, doesn't own a fret rocker or ever open the cavity to actually see what components their new shiny guitar actually possesses.. It was built by the this big company so it has to be right, right ??

I'm here to attest, that after enough dirty baths I've taken from being one of these people, the name of that headstock means nothing without the quality behind it.. Frets "supposedly" finished by some illustrious "P..." machine, what a horrible joke, and tone robbing pots they continually choose to install, nuts that have never been properly adjusted and out they go shipped like that for the unsuspecting to enjoy.. No more will I fall for their shoddy workmanship.. Want more proof, get to know someone who works in a retail store than sells them and this ugly education will continue to grow..

As much as I've disliked Black guitars in the past, enough so, I refused to buy one. this time I was on a mission to find one of these Epi Elitists with a 50's neck profile, and after searching awhile, I made the call to someone who had his listed.. As pretty as the Standards are, they have the thinner 60's neck which I wasn't interested in, so that left me with a studio to check out..

The 2004 was listed locally and the seller was kind enough to drive it over for me to look at.. When he opened the case I couldn't get over how brand new the les paul looked, and it didn't take me long to tell after a fairly quick inspection, it hadn't seen much use at all.. I didn't even need to plug it in to know what I had for the price of what a new Classic Vibe strat before tax would cost..

As with most production line guitars a few of these frets need to be levelled slightly, but without a doubt Far superior to most G guitars costing 4+ times the price in the current used market of this one, but no biggie.. Rarely do I ever leave the stock pickups in any guitar, because if its as important to you as it is to me, there are so many quality choices out there to up the sonic game, and from my research these Elitists supposedly had Gibson pups from factory, but they're not as clear as my ears like em.. I haven't had a chance to dive into the control cavity to see what pot values have been used, but im hoping they have what the original lesters came with, 500K audio tapers, and if not, it'll have them soon enough.. The Sustain acoustically or plugged in is every bit as good as my Trad, and not sure what'll change once the Faber hardware and my beloved Wolfetone Dr V and MH II I have sitting here waiting to go in it..

In summary, aside from the colour and lack of block inlays of this Studio Elitist, it will be in my humble opinion every bit as nice to play and sound just as good as my Gibson...will I miss the visual beauty of the Traditional, you bet and yet im still Very Satisified overall with the quality vs the low cost I paid for this Epiphone Elitist..

Cheers


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2016)

Congrats!
Looking forward to a little show n' tell.
Well, the show part now.


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

Congratulations and thank you very much for the update!

Happy rocking and GLWS with your Gibson.

yours truly
Bojan


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

HNED! So you scooped that one eh? Awesome. Glad to hear that you were impressed. Amazing value for the dollar spent. Enjoy


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