# Implications of Canada-Korea trade agreement for guitars?



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

All day long, I've heard news about the trade pact signed between Canada and South Korea today. Most of the discussion has been about the auto industry, tech, and agriculture, but you and I know that a LOT of guitars come from Korea these days.

So, does anyone have any sense of what this might do for guitar prices of the Made-in-Korea variety?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Fair enough. That was pretty much the info I was looking for. Thanks.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Hmmmm, does this mean we'll be exporting lots and lots of Canadian made cars to Korea?

Happy days are here again!!!!


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

canadians make cars?


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Hmmmm, does this mean we'll be exporting lots and lots of Canadian made cars to Korea?


I expect Canada will trade oil while Korea trades manufactured goods. This can't be good for Canada's manufacturing sector workforce, same as NAFTA wasn't.


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## DrHook (Oct 28, 2013)

cheezyridr said:


> canadians make cars?


There's still a sh*t load of Bricklins somewhere on the east coast, you can't drive far in Korea so these will be perfect, you'll never break down far from home.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

Yeah, looks like it ain`t gonna be as easy with the Japanese, they do love to protect their own even if it means higher prices domestically...they often still have an Edo period mentality, on many things. We`ll see but I bet it`s going to drag on much longer with the Japanese.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

cheezyridr said:


> canadians make cars?



Well, not good ones, but then again neither does Korea.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

dradlin said:


> I expect Canada will trade oil while Korea trades manufactured goods. This can't be good for Canada's manufacturing sector workforce, same as NAFTA wasn't.


I agree 100%. It will make a lot of money for people who already have a lot of money though.



Milkman said:


> Well, not good ones, but then again *neither does Korea*.


You may not like them, but your statement is dead wrong. Hyundai and KIA are kicking ass in the marketplace with sales because of fantastic problem free cars and that's what people are generally looking for.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Korea makes a lot of our "North American" cars already - just about every small GM anyway..............


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

smorgdonkey said:


> You may not like them, but your statement is dead wrong. Hyundai and KIA are kicking ass in the marketplace with sales because of fantastic problem free cars and that's what people are generally looking for.


How did my name get tagged as the source of your quote? I didn't write that and I disagree.

Canada exports cars built in Ontario by Chrysler, Ford, Toyota, Honda, and maybe more. Completed engines and numerous components and assemblies are also exported, as well as tooling and equipment used in automotive manufacturing.

Extremely doubtful though that any of that will export to Korea, or anything else manufactured in Canada.

Cheap manufactured goods traded for natural resources, and corporate access to cheap labour... that's what this is about. These agreements serve the wealthy, not the working man.





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## Stonehead (Nov 12, 2013)

dradlin said:


> Cheap manufactured goods traded for natural resources, and corporate access to cheap labour... that's what this is about. These agreements serve the wealthy, not the working man.



Well put! +1


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

dradlin said:


> I expect Canada will trade oil while Korea trades manufactured goods. This can't be good for Canada's manufacturing sector workforce, same as NAFTA wasn't.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Trading oil for what ever sounds like a good plan but how you going to get it there. As far as I know, there's no viable port on the west coast and no pipieline to get the oil there. From the sounds of it, those won't happenfor a while.


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2014)

Not sure if it's the oil they're after.
It's our cows.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

As with NAFTA, there will be some sectors that will benefit greatly, and some sectors will be hurt. Some regions will see increases in employment and GDP, while others will feel like Wal-Mart just ran over them, backed up, and ran over them again. Unfortunately, the chips have been placed on those sectors where the greatest profits will be made for the shareholders.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

So, how many litres of oil do I need to send for a nice George Benson Hollow Body by Ibanez?


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

dradlin said:


> How did my name get tagged as the source of your quote? I didn't write that and I disagree


Post #6...perhaps if you look at my post again you will see that the part that you quoted wasn't in response to you. No worries...I have had times where I missed something or misquoted someone...even responded to the wrong person.

But at least I didn't. .. (see sig)


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

smorgdonkey said:


> I agree 100%. It will make a lot of money for people who already have a lot of money though.
> 
> 
> 
> You may not like them, but your statement is dead wrong. Hyundai and KIA are kicking ass in the marketplace with sales because of fantastic problem free cars and that's what people are generally looking for.


Really? How many have you driven? I rent cars two or three times a month. Based on that experience I avoid Kia and Hyundai like the plague and will absolutely decline any VW they try to give me. I have specific reasons relating directly to safety and quality. Once you get to the Sonata and Optima, the quality is better but the econo cars.... no thank you.

Yes, people buy Kias and hyundais. They also buy gangster rap and boy band albums. What do sales numbers have to do with quality?
No, sorry big guy, it's all about price and marketing.


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2014)

Milkman said:


> I rent cars two or three times a month.


Rental cars tend to be abused because 'it's not my car' 
so I may as well have some fun with it.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Unfortunately, the chips have been placed on those sectors where the greatest profits will be made for the shareholders.


The chips should be placed where the citizens benefit... for meaningful jobs to be maintained or generated.

The government should be securing "fair trade" not "free trade" agreements.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

smorgdonkey said:


> Post #6...perhaps if you look at my post again you will see that the part that you quoted wasn't in response to you. No worries...I have had times where I missed something or misquoted someone...even responded to the wrong person.
> 
> But at least I didn't. .. (see sig)


Perhaps if you look at post #10 you will see that your second quote is attributed to me, and I strongly disagree with the sentiment that good cars are not built in Canada.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

dradlin said:


> Perhaps if you look at post #10 you will see that your second quote is attributed to me, and I strongly disagree with the sentiment that good cars are not built in Canada.


Here's post #10. I don't know what you are seeing...anyone else see what he sees?
Maybe it is the viewer on your phone. Check a computer and you will see this:


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Milkman said:


> Really? How many have you driven? I rent cars two or three times a month. Based on that experience I avoid Kia and Hyundai like the plague and will absolutely decline any VW they try to give me. I have specific reasons relating directly to safety and quality. Once you get to the Sonata and Optima, the quality is better but the econo cars.... no thank you.
> 
> Yes, people buy Kias and hyundais. They also buy gangster rap and boy band albums. What do sales numbers have to do with quality?
> No, sorry big guy, it's all about price and marketing.


Well, you are driving rentals which are known for being 'beaten'. That's not the only issue though...I suppose that you may be referring to 'quality' in a tactile sense like the way something feels (leather seats, etc) and such whereas I see 'quality' with respect to vehicles as 'least problems'. Different connotation perhaps?

I owned a Hyundai prior to the KIA that I own now. I had little issue with my Hyundai in 8 years and I have had zero issues (not even a wiper coming loose) with my KIA and I have had it over 4 years. I know many people with both brands and they all report fantastic quality (with respect to problems).

Now, few to no problems is making great cars (to me).
Along the lines of my connotation of quality, the KIA Soul has been found highest rated in initial quality for 2013. That has to do with problems as well.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

smorgdonkey said:


> You may not like them, but your statement is dead wrong. Hyundai and KIA are kicking ass in the marketplace with sales because of fantastic problem free cars and that's what people are generally looking for.


WTF!.....Problem free?....yeah..ok, sure..


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

laristotle said:


> Milkman said:
> 
> 
> > I rent cars two or three times a month.
> ...


So are you implying that only Korean cars suffer this abuse?


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

Milkman said:


> smorgdonkey said:
> 
> 
> > I agree 100%. It will make a lot of money for people who already have a lot of money though.
> ...


You work for HONDA don't you?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

dradlin said:


> The chips should be placed where the citizens benefit... for meaningful jobs to be maintained or generated.
> 
> The government should be securing "fair trade" not "free trade" agreements.


Personally, I agree with you. I'd like to think that civic responsibility and responsibility to shareholders are not mutually exclusive (well, unless one happens to be a Gordon Gecko devotee who believes that "greed is good").

My sense is that the current federal government adopts the view that whatever is good for business is ultimately good for the populace. It's a version of trickle-down economics.

It is a more complex version of trickle-down theory, though, than what drove the US economy during the Reagan years. Keep in mind that the various social benefits (such as Medicare) we are so proud of in this country do not come solely from pooling our taxes, the same way insurance payouts are not subsidized solely by pooled premiums. The government is a HUGE investor, and your health care, and pension, are partly paid for by the ROI on those invested taxes.

As well, when some business advantage results in a big influx of capital and resulting employment and wages, the economic assumption is that this will result in returns to the Treasury in terms of personal and business taxes, as well as sales taxes as those folks earning the big bucks go out and spend. It's not unlike the argument many people will make for why their city should retain an NHL team. And those federal or municipal taxes are what pays for the services provided at the federal or municipal level. Some will be services you couldn't care less about, or may even outright reject, but some will be those you depend on.

I'm not entirely convinced that second assumption (profits brought in will continue to circulate in the local and federal economy) is always true, though. Buying the Beamer you always wanted, vacationing in the Bahamas or even Orlando, or siphoning your CEO earnings to the Caymans, is not exactly pumping money into the Canadian economy. Sadly, not that many Canadians are so patriotic that they would think twice about spending their newfound wealth outside our borders or maybe investing in our nation instead of elsewhere. And of course, the owners of those businesses (with the possible exception of agriculture or other resource-based businesses), much like NHL team-owners, are always free to pick up and relocate where profits are greater.

Like I said earlier, some folks will win big, and some will lose out. I just hope its the right ones.


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2014)

Milkman said:


> laristotle said:
> 
> 
> > Milkman said:
> ...


Not at all. Do the words 'rental car' specify korean?

- - - Updated - - -

Great Googly Moogly! I hit 3000 posts!
I need to get a life! lol.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

hardasmum said:


> HONDA


I had a Honda. It was an excellent car. My Hyundai that I bought 12 years later was only $1000 more. It wasn't as refined as the Honda but it had way more for the money. 

-Honda came empty and the Hyundai came wired up with speakers.
-Hyundai had driver's side airbag. The Honda was an '89 and that was before airbags.
-Honda was a manual tran and the Hyundai was auto which may or may not be one's preference but they are generally $1000 'value'. 

Now the KIA? It was pretty much the same price in 2009 as my Honda was in 1989 and it has multiple airbags, came with a full-on stereo with bluetooth...yeah...phone rings and I hit a button on the dash and the call comes over the speakers and there is a mic in the dash. I had more problems with my Honda in the first month than I had with my KIA in all four years that I have had my KIA (because yeah, as I said, I have had not one thing go wrong). The Honda had the exhaust rot right out every second year. In the first few months I was in a rainstorm and the wiper ARM let go.

Don't get me wrong...I loved the Honda and I do like Honda in general but there came a time when you paid a fair premium for the H on the hood. I was the first in my family to have a Honda. My Dad has driven Honda ever since then (now he has 2) and my sister has one - my aunt had one but got a Toyota a couple years ago. 

They still build an excellent car but being as working person, *I have to put my money where I get better value for it*. In that case, I'll take the KIA or Hyundai every single time.

I talked to a guy who worked at the Honda factory in Alliston. He said they were rushed so much by management that the number of cross threaded bolts and such that got put in was unreal. That was about 12 years ago but still.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

hardasmum said:


> You work for HONDA don't you?


No I don't. They're among my customers but so are Korean OEMs.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

Milkman said:


> hardasmum said:
> 
> 
> > You work for HONDA don't you?
> ...


Ah okay. Sorry!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

laristotle said:


> Not at all. Do the words 'rental car' specify korean?
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> ...


Well then, why would rental abuse skew my opinion regarding Korean cars?

- - - Updated - - -



hardasmum said:


> Ah okay. Sorry!



No worries. I don't drive a Honda either but it's not because of any quality concerns. They just don't make a car with the characteristics I want.


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2014)

Milkman said:


> Well then, why would rental abuse skew my opinion regarding Korean cars?











I made a comment about rentals and you think I'm talking 
about what your opinion is regarding korean cars?
Your opinion matters something to you, not me. 
or am I missing something?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Had a Hundai once, a Pony. The rear window blew out on the freeway around Chiliwack. I've had English cars and trucks, German, Russian and Japanese cars and trucks, 2 american cars and a bunch of Canadian cars and trucks. Aside from the '55 Merc. truck (Canadian), the International and the English ones, all they were was transportation. The Lada was a dissapointment. Would I buy a Korean made vehicle? Nope, they don't have one that fits my requirements. In otherwords, they don't make a descent truck....or motorcycle. And actually, where something is made is of no big importance to me. Does the 'free trade' or what ever you want to call it directly affect me? Only if they start shipping oil to Korea from Alberta.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

laristotle said:


> I made a comment about rentals and you think I'm talking
> about what your opinion is regarding korean cars?
> Your opinion matters something to you, not me.
> or am I missing something?




The discussion was regarding Korean cars and their quality. You quoted me as saying "I rent cars two or three times a month" in the context of that discussion and responded with your comment about rental cars being abused. Would I not assume you were implying that the reason my impression of Korean cars was negative was due to the ones I trued being abused by renters?

Am I missing something?


ALL rental cars are abused, therefore the fact that this happens has nothing to do with the models I've rented being better or worse than any other make.

It's not a big deal but you should be able to understand why I responded as I did.


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2014)

My point was the same as yours is just now. ALL rental cars are abused.
My comments were not meant to put you on the spot. If you took it that
way, I apologize for the confusion. 
It was not my intention.:sEm_oops: :sEm_ImSorry:


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

laristotle said:


> My point was the same as yours is just now. ALL rental cars are abused.
> My comments were not meant to put you on the spot. If you took it that
> way, I apologize for the confusion.
> It was not my intention.:sEm_oops: :sEm_ImSorry:


No problem. We've never had friction and I don't want to start.

Peace man!

Thanks,


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2014)

likewise.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Oh...and as for rentals/safety of cars...don't forget GM:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/303-crash-deaths-linked-to-gm-airbags-watchdog-says-1.2572747


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

smorgdonkey said:


> Here's post #10. I don't know what you are seeing...anyone else see what he sees?
> Maybe it is the viewer on your phone. Check a computer and you will see this:
> View attachment 7597



Yes, I see something different on my phone and I'm traveling so I can't check a computer... my apologies.












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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

dradlin said:


> Yes, I see something different on my phone and I'm traveling so I can't check a computer... my apologies.


No problem at all brother.

I saw this on the bottom of your posts 


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


so I figured that it must have been some sort of techie issue.

Safe travels.


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