# Gibson - Epiphone Blind Test... Are you up to the challenge?



## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Deleted.....


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

So...do all of the guitars have the same pickups installed? That's the only way to determine *guitar*superiority in such a test.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

smorgdonkey said:


> So...do all of the guitars have the same pickups installed? That's the only way to determine *guitar*superiority in such a test.


All guitars are stock except for the Gibson w/ PIO caps. The point of this test is to know which one will sound good right off the bat. All were played both plugged and unplugged to give an idea how it will sound without the variability of pickups.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Is this a FAIL thread?


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## tranman (Feb 4, 2009)

Lol I saw this thread on MLP


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

tranman said:


> Lol I saw this thread on MLP


I'm asking for more views and opinions.  What's your user name there?


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## overdriver (Jul 24, 2008)

vasthorizon said:


> Is this a FAIL thread?


IMO no its not, interesting to hear the differences in stock Epi and stock Gibson LP. Those that would care love these types of things. Good of you to post it. :wave:
I will give it more of a listen and more, IMO imput latter.


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## jfk911 (May 23, 2008)

so when do we find out which guitar was which?


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## Gene Machine (Sep 22, 2007)

*3*

I like # 3. However, the first two sound slightly out of tune too. Maybe that effected my choice.

#3 sounds less forced, more natural sounding. Not as harsh.

My $.02

:smile:


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Here's my guess:

3rd guitar sounded the best by far to my ears. Unplugged it had a fuller, richer sound and plugged in the notes jumped out a lot better. I'm guessing this is the Gibson, or maybe the Elitist.

2nd guitar sounded 2nd best. Unplugged it had a bit more bottom than #1, but plugged in, it sounded pretty much the same as #1, though the notes seemed to sustain a bit longer. This one is probably the '03 Elite.

1st guitar sounded the thinnest unplugged and didn't sustain as well or seem to convey much weight to it's tone when plugged in. This one is the '05 MIJ LP (though I haven't heard of this model before, I assume it's "lower" than the Elite).

I'm kinda hoping #3 is the Elite, because I'm a big believer in low-cost guitars being viable, quality instruments. Many times I prefer the tone of my CV Tele to that of my US Deluxe Strat.

*Edit* - haha, Gene and I were posting at the same time. Yeah, #3 seems like the winner by far.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Gene Machine said:


> I like # 3. However, the first two sound slightly out of tune too.


I know. I was in a bit of a hurry to make that vid.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

3rd sounded slightly better to me, but it could be newer strings or something.

As someone who owns a lot of different guitars incl. Gibsosn and Epiphones, I roll my eyes when I hear someone rave about the vast differences in tone relative to the money they just spent on their axe. If its there, I cant hear it. But if it psyches you to play better or more often, then, why not.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

No offense, but how can we really make such distinctions based upon compressed audio, recorded with a camera mic, played through a cheap SS practice amp?

I'm not trying to be a smartass, but there are too many limitations here to really draw any type of meaningful conclusion. I say this as someone who owns/owned both expensive and inexpensive guitars; good guitars are good guitar regardless of price, but this "test" doesn't offer any decisive conclusions.

Nonetheless, an interesting video.

TG


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

traynor_garnet said:


> No offense, but how can we really make such distinctions based upon compressed audio, recorded with a camera mic, played through a cheap SS practice amp?
> 
> I'm not trying to be a smartass, but there are too many limitations here to really draw any type of meaningful conclusion. I say this as someone who owns/owned both expensive and inexpensive guitars; good guitars are good guitar regardless of price, but this "test" doesn't offer any decisive conclusions.
> 
> ...


I definitely agree with this. In fact, I was thinking about it while I was listening to the video. The sound quality could definitely be better and might have a lot of bearing on the actual outcome. 

Having said that, I still feel that the 3rd guitar sounded noticeably better (to my ears) than the other two, and I'm pretty sure that that difference would be as noticeable, if not more so, if we had higher quality sound.


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## aC2rs (Jul 9, 2007)

Based on that clip I would say number 3


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## GTFPDQ (Oct 31, 2007)

I have to go with #3. Sounds cleaner, nicer tone. 

#2 certainly had a string just out of tune. #1 sounded good but a bit too crisp for me.

I dont mind if #1 or #3 are the Gibby or the Epi. Im trying to make up my mind about buying an Epi or splurging on a Gibson. 

When do we get to find out?


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> No offense, but how can we really make such distinctions based upon compressed audio, recorded with a camera mic, played through a cheap SS practice amp?
> 
> I'm not trying to be a smartass, but there are too many limitations here to really draw any type of meaningful conclusion. I say this as someone who owns/owned both expensive and inexpensive guitars; good guitars are good guitar regardless of price, but this "test" doesn't offer any decisive conclusions.
> 
> ...


I agree... but... if all guitars are on the same level playing field, you should still be able to discern differences between them. And if you were going by how much you spend, you should still notice a big difference relative to. Which is likely one of the 'goals' of the comparison. 

To add another 'but' though, the annoying delay effect should not be used. I don't think the amp sounds that bad nor does the audio for the video (for what it is). But that delay affect really messes up your ability to pick up some of the more natural tones of the guitar.

I think all 3 sound very good in their own way. Which is basically what I think with most Epi, Agile, or high end Gibson LP's I play. I am never one to say any decent LP or clone is 'better' than the other. I just don't believe price dictates what a good LP is in the slightest though.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> I agree... but... if all guitars are on the same level playing field, you should still be able to discern differences between them.


It depends upon _how_ and _how much_ the "playing field" is leveled. Yes, all guitars were all recorded using the same equipment, but if that equipment and playback medium are highly unrefined, you simply don't have a chance to hear the _detailed nuances_ that _may_ distinguish inexpensive and expensive gear. So although you may hear differences between the guitars, there may be many _important_ differences that remain inaudible.

Again, this isn't meant as a "defense" of expensive guitars (like you I own inexpensive and expensive guitars). It's just that one day I watched s youtube pedal demo where the guy was raving about how wide the tone control was. The problem was, as you watched him crank the knob from one extreme to the other, you could barely hear any difference thanks to youtube compression and low quality camera mics. Since then, I've really taken these things with a LARGE grain of salt.

TG


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> It depends upon _how_ and _how much_ the "playing field" is leveled. Yes, all guitars were all recorded using the same equipment, but if that equipment and playback medium are highly unrefined, you simply don't have a chance to hear the _detailed nuances_ that _may_ distinguish inexpensive and expensive gear. So although you may hear differences between the guitars, there may be many _important_ differences that remain inaudible.
> 
> Again, this isn't meant as a "defense" of expensive guitars (like you I own inexpensive and expensive guitars). It's just that one day I watched s youtube pedal demo where the guy was raving about how wide the tone control was. The problem was, as you watched him crank the knob from one extreme to the other, you could barely hear any difference thanks to youtube compression and low quality camera mics. Since then, I've really taken these things with a LARGE grain of salt.
> 
> TG


I totally agree, I just find the video posted sounds fairly decent for the equipment used. I have heard WAY worse, as you pointed out.

I mean, as far as the SS amps go I use my Roland Cube more than my tube amps nowadays. So I personally think with effects free settings, they are a good enough amp for a comparison. I would say the same about the Vox amps and some other decent solid state stuff I have heard.

Which leaves the other issues you mentioned, which are big ones. But again, I think these are pretty decent sounding clips. Minus the delay.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Guitars will be revealed after the 20th vote has been cast.


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## Don Doucette (Jan 3, 2007)

Weird... I didn't like #1 at all but I kept flip flopping between #2 and #3.
In the end I felt that #2 was what I liked the most.

Don:smilie_flagge17:


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

I just casted the 20th vote....drum roll please....................


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

The answers. The guitars. In order of the clip:

Guitar #1 : 2003 Epiphone Elite Les Paul Standard MIJ

Guitar #2 : 2006 Gibson Les Paul Standard Un-Chambered

Guitar #3 : 2005 Epiphone Les Paul Custom Lacquer Series MIJ 

All with the same gauge and brand of strings, Gibson Vintage Re-Issue .010. Newly strung probably an hour before I took the video.

Thank you for participating.


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## noobcake (Mar 8, 2006)

Well, I think number 2 needs an intonation adjustment. Also, I think expensive electric guitars are more about feel than sound. Playing style, type of pickups, newness / oldness of strings and the amp / pedals used are responsible for about 99% of the sound you hear. As long as the guitar isn't built with overly shoddy craftsmanship, it will pretty much sound the same as just about any other guitar of the same type (eg. an Epiphone SG and a Gibson SG will pretty much sound the same).

Acoustic guitars are a whole other story.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Hmmm, so I did a bit of digging on this Lacquer series LP and it seems some people think they're even higher quality than the Elite series. Now, I know how nice the Elites are, so if this Lacquer series is supposed to be better, than I'm not surprised at all that it sounded best.

Vast...tell us more about this LP! Where do you get one? Are they made anymore? What's the ballpark in terms of $$$???


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Hi Hollowbody,

I just got the Epiphone Les Paul Lacquer Series yesterday morning, April 1, 2009. They are VERY VERY rare especially here in the north. I got it thru my local Kijiji. I have a friend in Japan, and even though these guitars are MIJ and are only sold in the Japanese market, they are still VERY VERY VERY rare there. They aren't sold anywhere except in Japan. Gibson only allowed the open-book headstock to be done on MIJ Epiphones to match their rivals like Tokai, Greco, etc. in the Japanese market. Everything else that is to be exported by Epiphone Japan should be made with the "weird" headstock that's found on the Epiphone Elites.

The owner said in the ad that it was in mint, unplayed condition. Turns out, he's telling less than the truth. It was in ABSOLUTE PRISTINE condition. No imperfections whatsoever.

I got it for $700 CDN. They aren't made anymore and was stopped in mid to late 2007. This is a very hot collectors item right now. As soon as I posted it in MyLesPaul.com forum, someone offered me a whopping 1,600 USD + shipping to the states. I declined.

The lacquer that they use in these guitars are a special concoction made by the Japanese Epiphone Management. It is a special type of lacquer that simulates the tonal, aging, and texture qualities of nitro. It is NEITHER nitro nor poly. Japanese have environmental laws that prevent them from spraying pure nitro so they have developed this formula.

All specs are copied from the original vintage Gibson Black Beauty with the addition of the correct headstock angle. Electronics and hardware are all USA.

If you see one under a grand, Canadian, grab it.... AT ONCE!!!

I hope I have answered your question.



hollowbody said:


> Hmmm, so I did a bit of digging on this Lacquer series LP and it seems some people think they're even higher quality than the Elite series. Now, I know how nice the Elites are, so if this Lacquer series is supposed to be better, than I'm not surprised at all that it sounded best.
> 
> Vast...tell us more about this LP! Where do you get one? Are they made anymore? What's the ballpark in terms of $$$???


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Thank you for participating in the survey.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

vasthorizon said:


> As soon as I posted it in MyLesPaul.com forum, someone offered me a whopping 1,600 USD + shipping to the states. I declined.


That would have been sold so fast if it were me...that's over $2000 Canadian.


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## overdriver (Jul 24, 2008)

smorgdonkey said:


> That would have been sold so fast if it were me...that's over $2000 Canadian.


 +1 and I would get a nice tele!kkjuw


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## blink (Jul 29, 2008)

Gene Machine said:


> I like # 3. However, the first two sound slightly out of tune too. Maybe that effected my choice.
> 
> #3 sounds less forced, more natural sounding. Not as harsh.
> 
> ...


+1 Add my 0.02 to that


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

overdriver said:


> +1 and I would get a nice tele!kkjuw



No kidding. For that kind of money I would have delivered it personally and then picked up a real nice Tele on my way home.:smile:


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

None sounded very good to me but 3 is the one that I think sounded the best of the lot.


The playing was out of tune a lot so it was hard to focus on the tone.


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## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

Number 2 is out of tune, so I couldn't listen to it without that dissonance messing with my ear.

One sounded the best.

I think my Bluesbird sounds nicer (not better) than my Lester.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

elindso said:


> One sounded the best.


+1

Looks like we're in the minority. :smile:


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