# L&M beef with October Gibson month



## Rideski (Feb 25, 2009)

Sorry to complain but you'd think these guys would have some for-sight and actually order in a good selection of Gibson guitars for the October Gibson month (0%) event. I mean what's the point if we can't see, touch, feel and play the instruments, and if we order there is no guarantee the product will arrive within the month thus not allowing us to take advantage of the 0%. 
Even if I have the cash in hand it's better, for me, to use the 0%, and use the cash for other things...


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Rideski said:


> Sorry to complain but you'd think these guys would have some for-sight and actually order in a good selection of Gibson guitars for the October Gibson month (0%) event. I mean what's the point if we can't see, touch, feel and play the instruments, and if we order there is no guarantee the product will arrive within the month thus not allowing us to take advantage of the 0%.
> Even if I have the cash in hand it's better, for me, to use the 0%, and use the cash for other things...


Last time I ordered something, I got the 0% even though the item came in after October. As long as you leave a deposit on the instrument, the transaction is open and has started in October, regardless of when you get it. At least that's what I was told.


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2012)

Rideski said:


> Sorry to complain but you'd think these guys would have some for-sight and actually order in a good selection of Gibson guitars for the October Gibson month (0%) event. I mean what's the point if we can't see, touch, feel and play the instruments, and if we order there is no guarantee the product will arrive within the month thus not allowing us to take advantage of the 0%.
> Even if I have the cash in hand it's better, for me, to use the 0%, and use the cash for other things...


Like hollowbody I was told as long as I made the deposit in October they'd honour the 0% deal with the instrument arrived.

I ended up just buying out that sweet rental J-45 I had so didn't have to wait for one to show up in the end.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Guest (Oct 9, 2012)

nkjanssen said:


> My J-45 was a former L&M rental unit. One of the nicest SJ-style Gibsons I've ever played (including vintage). Sometimes you can get lucky. Gotta play a lot to find those though.


Yea, that's why I bought this specific one. I even played the new J-45 on the shelf before I bought it and didn't like the new one as much as this one. Totally agree with playing Gibsons before buying them -- super inconsistent.

Wonder if you could use/abuse their return/exchange policy though here? Order it in, buy it on the 0% offer, and then force an exchange if, in the first couple of days, it's not working for you.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I guess with the number of members here from Alberta, this is not the time make a beef joke, is it.


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

The Ottawa L&M has got to be the worst store in the chain.


They never have the better stuff in stock and then ask you to order,


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Robert1950 said:


> I guess with the number of members here from Alberta, this is not the time make a beef joke, is it.


I say it's fine to do so. If someone deserves to be called an idiot they should be and in this case they are, XL foods and the QC people they have working for them.


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## Rideski (Feb 25, 2009)

rollingdam said:


> The Ottawa L&M has got to be the worst store in the chain.
> 
> 
> They never have the better stuff in stock and then ask you to order,


And this is the one I'm refering too!

Thanks for the input guys.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

nkjanssen said:


> I would definitely never buy a Gibson without playing it first. At least a 50% chance you get a dog if ordering.


Yup. In an attempt to meet the 10 character minimum post requirement, did you know that in Barbados "pooch" means "a**"?


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

rollingdam said:


> The Ottawa L&M has got to be the worst store in the chain.
> 
> 
> They never have the better stuff in stock and then ask you to order,


i can second this...i've only had terrible service there


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## switters (Dec 19, 2011)

I can't stand dealing with L&M anymore. They used to be fairly decent, but seem to be entirely run by accountants now. Just their general corporate policies have lead me to go out of my way now to not spend money there....... Luckily there's still a mom and pop store here in town who still treat their customers like, you know, customers. 

Also, not to derail too badly, but with regard to new Gibsons, don't forget that the Lifetime Limited Warranty doesn't apply to guitars bought in Canada. You only get a 1 year limited warranty through Yorkville Sound. You're essentially buying a used guitar (Bought from Gibson by Yorkville Sound, then sold to you). 

Oddly enough, this little tidbit isn't reflected in the price.


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## theruley (Oct 24, 2011)

There are a couple really great guys at the Regina L&M, very helpful and knowledged in their products. I have also dealt with not so great guys at other locations though, so i think it just depends on which one you go to, and who happens to be working that day.

I actually took advantage of their 0% this month and bought a les Paul junior...stupid L&M


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I have nothing but good things to say about my dealings with the L&M stores in downtown Toronto and Oshawa.


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## The Lullaby (Dec 8, 2010)

"New" guitars have sometimes been in a store for a few years and have been handled by countless people. They're never really new. Not exactly the subject at hand but...


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

I've never run into any of the infamous 'Gibson dogs' that people talk about.

The issue that I had with the 0% plan was that they never mentioned down payment until I had the stuff that I wanted. They wanted about 25-30% down which they never really talk about until the purchase.


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## chimo (Mar 29, 2006)

OK, I work at L&M and there's certainly some confusion about them/their policies. I've attempted to address what I've seen. If I've missed something let me know and I'll do my best to answer. 



iaresee said:


> Yea, that's why I bought this specific one. I even played the new J-45 on the shelf before I bought it and didn't like the new one as much as this one. Totally agree with playing Gibsons before buying them -- super inconsistent.
> 
> Wonder if you could use/abuse their return/exchange policy though here? Order it in, buy it on the 0% offer, and then force an exchange if, in the first couple of days, it's not working for you.


It took me a while to figure out that good guitars *should* be inconsistent tone-wise from one instrument to another (though there's no excuse for inconsistent build quality). Given that the trees that they're made of grow differently from tree to tree etc. You definitely want to play a few before you settle. And of course everybody has different opinions on what good tone is.. 

As for the exchange, any time you buy and instrument from L&M you can return it any time within the finance period with varying amounts of restocking fees. There's a 3 day grace period to return the product w/ no fees attached.



rollingdam said:


> The Ottawa L&M has got to be the worst store in the chain.
> 
> 
> They never have the better stuff in stock and then ask you to order,


It come down to a few things regarding stock levels: prior sale history and size of the store. I've never been to the Ottawa store but I'm assuming that it's a wee bit smaller than say the Burlington or Bloor stores that carry much more. Plus if you have to order it, it's only coming from Pickering (usually) it shouldn't take too much time. Having a strong representation of upper class Gibsons is a major financial commitment for a 'smaller' store. 



switters said:


> I can't stand dealing with L&M anymore. They used to be fairly decent, but seem to be entirely run by accountants now. Just their general corporate policies have lead me to go out of my way now to not spend money there....... Luckily there's still a mom and pop store here in town who still treat their customers like, you know, customers.
> 
> Also, not to derail too badly, but with regard to new Gibsons, don't forget that the Lifetime Limited Warranty doesn't apply to guitars bought in Canada. You only get a 1 year limited warranty through Yorkville Sound. You're essentially buying a used guitar (Bought from Gibson by Yorkville Sound, then sold to you).
> 
> Oddly enough, this little tidbit isn't reflected in the price.


It's a *limited* lifetime warranty from Gibson not Yorkville. Yorkville is the distributor, not the resaler. Guitars are new, not used and the warranties are honored as per Gibson (In the end Yorkville is credited for Gibson warranty work and furthermore, sometimes guitars are shipped back to Gibson for work - though uncommon). It's not going to be different in the states compared to Canada. 

By the same logic, Martin guitars are distributed by Keif Music in Canada. Would you consider all the Martin guitars warehoused fresh in boxes w/ valid warranty used? Didn't think so. Of course they're not going to be cheaper, they're new instruments.



The Lullaby said:


> "New" guitars have sometimes been in a store for a few years and have been handled by countless people. They're never really new. Not exactly the subject at hand but...


So long as the instrument hasn't been sold before it's considered new (ie offered with warranty etc.). Long and McQuade generally attempts to sell from they're sales floors rather than their warehouses - particularly w/ guitars it's due to the inconsistent nature of the product - people want to get one that feels right and they want to play it first. They can't simply sell brown boxes and bid people good-day. 

Instruments can hang around for a while and yes they can get worn in the store. If there's a product that's on the floor and you'd like one that's sealed, ask them to order it. Most items take 10ish business days to arrive. Otherwise often you will see that there has been a small allotment for shop play-wear in the price, though this will vary from store to store.



smorgdonkey said:


> I've never run into any of the infamous 'Gibson dogs' that people talk about.
> 
> The issue that I had with the 0% plan was that they never mentioned down payment until I had the stuff that I wanted. They wanted about 25-30% down which they never really talk about until the purchase.


As far as the 0% promotion goes, keep in mind that it's a "0% Financing for up to 12 months on Yorkville related product". Anywhere you go there's always a down payment expected when you finance something (it's a substantial security measure), or there's hidden fees with crippling interest rates. With L&M there are no hidden fees and when there's interest charged it's pretty reasonable as compared to other 'corporate' finance plans. It's unfortunate that you were surprised/not informed about it but it's something that in my experience most people come to expect. Also talk with the salespeople - generally they're work w/ you to find a down payment that works for you.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

chimo said:


> OK, I work at L&M and there's certainly some confusion about them/their policies. I've attempted to address what I've seen. If I've missed something let me know and I'll do my best to answer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you are missing his point RE the warranty. He's saying L&M charges a price comparable to what you would pay in the US, but that that we don't get the same warranty the US get's for that price. I don't know anything about the warranties, I am just clarifying (I think) what he was saying. So he's not saying the guitars are used, he's saying the warranty protection you are getting (on a very expensive product) is not much better than what you get on a used item. But, on the other side of that I assume pretty much any Canadian retailer is in the same vote in that regard. I don't know if that's a specific Long and Mcquade issue? It sounds like anyone upset over warranty should be addressing Gibson over it.


The one point I take massive exception to is "Most items take 10ish business days to arrive.". That is complete bull. Most people on here have a story of ridiculous delays with L&M getting products. I actually had them call me 6 months after ordering a regular 52 RI Telecaster to say it was in. I asked them if they were f'n serious and told them I had taken my business elsewhere after the first month. No one should have any confidence in anyone at L&M telling you an order will take '10 days'.


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## chimo (Mar 29, 2006)

Well like I mentioned... Yorkville offers the warranty as per Gibson's standard. There's no difference in warranty between USA and Canada other than the fact that if it comes down to it, Yorkville performs the service.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

chimo said:


> Well like I mentioned... Yorkville offers the warranty as per Gibson's standard. There's no difference in warranty between USA and Canada other than the fact that if it comes down to it, Yorkville performs the service.


Well is it a limited lifetime warranty on a Gibson in Canada? Or is is a year warranty from Yorkville like he stated? Is it the exact same warranty you would get buying the guitar from Guitar Centre in the States? EG if you have an issue 5 years down the road, and take it into L&M will it be fixed? I am not asking in a combative way, I just want to know the details.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Did someone edit my post? Weird, I had another comment RE "10ish business days" to order an item. Many people on here has had horrible experiences with L&M taking months for orders. I ordered a 52' RI Tele years back. They called after 6 months to say it had arrived. Obviously by that point I had taken my business elsewhere. I hear stories even worse than that constantly (have heard many on this forum). So I have to laugh when I read that line. L&M is ridiculous when it comes to orders, and it's one of the reason's I stopped shopping there. I'd rather be told honestly how long and item will take to get here than be lied to. Or even better, shop at a store that can magically GET the items in 10 business days as they say.


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## switters (Dec 19, 2011)

Well, not to start an argument, but regarding the warranty, I've been told at L&M, a few 'local' shops, as well as direct discussion with Gibson, outside of the US the Gibson warranty doesn't apply. It's valid in the US only, and outside of the US, the distributor is responsible to provide the warranty. So, ignoring the obvious spin a retailer would put on it, effectively Yorkville Sound is buying Gibsons from Gibson, then reselling them to Canadians with their own one year warranty. 

Question came up on the Gibson board, and surprisingly, it was locked. http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/68015-gibson-warranty-outside-the-us/


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## chimo (Mar 29, 2006)

Actually it's both... 
A new Gibson from L&M will have two active warranties. 
(1) L&M Performance Warranty for one year (extendable at the point of sale). This is an all encompassing warranty for absolutely anything that affects the playability of the instrument (including frets but not abuse or string breakage). In the event that the instrument need to be shipped for service that's cover too. As well it entitles you to have the use of a similar guitar while the instrument is being serviced. 
(2) Gibson's Limited Lifetime Warranty. Various aspects of the guitar are covered for different amount of time. Finish, electronics, and defects for instance have different allotted time frames. I think electronics are ~1 year for instance. Not sure on the others. I do know that _generally_ Gibson assumes that if the problem doesn't manifest in the first year of ownership, it's likely more of a situational variable (environment etc) than a building flaw. 

A guitar bought in the states that lives in Canada will need to be shipped back to the USA for Warranty work. Yorkville will not touch any guitar sold though another distributor (ie: one that comes from another country) for Warranty work. They can certainly service it, but not as a warranty claim.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I've only ordered from down south.

I've had great service from both Mississauga and Burlington stores.
Everything I ordered was in stock though, except the extra brackets for an extra power supply for my PT Pro.
They took well over a month to get them to me. That could have been on PTs end though, who knows.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

chimo said:


> Actually it's both...
> A new Gibson from L&M will have two active warranties.
> (1) L&M Performance Warranty for one year (extendable at the point of sale). This is an all encompassing warranty for absolutely anything that affects the playability of the instrument (including frets but not abuse or string breakage). In the event that the instrument need to be shipped for service that's cover too. As well it entitles you to have the use of a similar guitar while the instrument is being serviced.
> (2) Gibson's Limited Lifetime Warranty. Various aspects of the guitar are covered for different amount of time. Finish, electronics, and defects for instance have different allotted time frames. I think electronics are ~1 year for instance. Not sure on the others. I do know that _generally_ Gibson assumes that if the problem doesn't manifest in the first year of ownership, it's likely more of a situational variable (environment etc) than a building flaw.
> ...


I am not questioning someone buying a guitar in the States and bringing it to Canada. I am pointing out that in the States, if someone buys a Gibson guitar they are entitled to a limited lifetime warranty on the guitar. So if the guitar develops say a structural issue that was related to manufacturing after 5 years (just the example I am giving) they are under warranty.

So you are saying someone buying a Gibson at L&M has that *exact* same warranty that a US customer has? Another thread here that says no: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/69799-gibson-usa-warranty/

Again, not trying to debate, I have just read a lot of different info about this in different places. It definitely seems to be a confusing issue amongst some people. What you are saying completely differs from info on the Gibson forums. So it's interesting to try to clear it up.

Why this is an issue, IMO, is if you are paying the same price for a guitar you should be getting the same warranty on it. BUT...again, this isn't really a L&M issue, but a Gibson issue. They should be honest about it though.

From a post in that thread that makes sense:



> If Gibson is setting their prices based on lifetime warranty cost projections, everyone paying those prices should get the full lifetime warranty. AND if Gibson chooses to limit the warranty, the price of the guitar should reflect the corresponding savings in limited warranty repairs.


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## chimo (Mar 29, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> Did someone edit my post? Weird, I had another comment RE "10ish business days" to order an item. Many people on here has had horrible experiences with L&M taking months for orders. I ordered a 52' RI Tele years back. They called after 6 months to say it had arrived. Obviously by that point I had taken my business elsewhere. I hear stories even worse than that constantly (have heard many on this forum). So I have to laugh when I read that line. L&M is ridiculous when it comes to orders, and it's one of the reason's I stopped shopping there. I'd rather be told honestly how long and item will take to get here than be lied to. Or even better, shop at a store that can magically GET the items in 10 business days as they say.


_*Most*_ items do take 10 business days, not all. The worst Fender I've seen is a USA STD ash tele that took a whopping 11 months, but don't get me started on Rickenbacker.

L&M moves as fast as it's distributors/suppliers will let them. In the case of your Tele, Fender ships all their product from California Fender is usually about 3 weeks (orders are shipped to our store every Friday and then factor in a couple weeks for transit/customs. I'm in PEI). If your Tele took 6 months, Fender didn't have any to sell and you waited for them to build it. That's not really unreasonable. It's not like they sat on their asses and purposely put you out. 

You can always ask the salesguy to get an approximate ETA by calling the distributor/supplier. This can be done either before or after the order and usually takes 5 minutes, though usually Monday to Friday


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## chimo (Mar 29, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> I am not questioning someone buying a guitar in the States and bringing it to Canada. I am pointing out that in the States, if someone buys a Gibson guitar they are entitled to a limited lifetime warranty on the guitar. So if the guitar develops say a structural issue that was related to manufacturing after 5 years (just the example I am giving) they are under warranty.
> 
> So you are saying someone buying a Gibson at L&M has that *exact* same warranty that a US customer has? Another thread here that says no: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/69799-gibson-usa-warranty/
> 
> ...



Ok, Odd, read a bit of the pposted thread... It's how I've always sold them for the last 4 years. I'll make some calls later today and get the skinny from the horses mouth.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2012)

torndownunit said:


> The one point I take massive exception to is "Most items take 10ish business days to arrive.". That is complete bull. Most people on here have a story of ridiculous delays with L&M getting products. I actually had them call me 6 months after ordering a regular 52 RI Telecaster to say it was in. I asked them if they were f'n serious and told them I had taken my business elsewhere after the first month. No one should have any confidence in anyone at L&M telling you an order will take '10 days'.


I have experienced this. One year after ordering in a Voodoo Labs Wah I got a call saying it was there. I had bought it elsewhere after about 3 months of waiting. This was an item listed as available and in-stock in another location mind you, not some rare bird I had imported.

I wasn't really annoyed though. Rather: I very much appreciated that they didn't care that I didn't want it any more. That I wasn't on the hook for purchasing it at that point, despite having dropped ordering it from my mind. I appreciated that _very_ much.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

iaresee said:


> I have experienced this. One year after ordering in a Voodoo Labs Wah I got a call saying it was there. I had bought it elsewhere after about 3 months of waiting. This was an item listed as available and in-stock in another location mind you, not some rare bird I had imported.
> 
> I wasn't really annoyed though. Rather: I very much appreciated that they didn't care that I didn't want it any more. That I wasn't on the hook for purchasing it at that point, despite having dropped ordering it from my mind. I appreciated that _very_ much.


Ya in the case of the Tele, I was ready for a war figuring they would still try to pressure me to buy it. The one thing I will give them in that whole transaction is that they didn't. I literally laughed and asked them if they were serious when they called about it though. And as you said, this was not an uncommon item in my case either. In all of the L&M stores in Ontario, they likely had one in stock they could have shipped to the store even. Or if not from within Ontario, another Province. They have no organization in this regard.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

I guess I'm going to have to go against the flow. I've never had a problem with L&M. I've always dealt with the Bloor location and my contact has been Angela. She is fantastic, great communication and no BS. If she can't deliver she tells me.
P.S. I've never used a warranty so I have no idea as to the applicability of Gibson USA's warranty in Canada.


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## switters (Dec 19, 2011)

I will chime in on the fact that I've had nothing but great personal service from the staff at any of the L&M I've dealt with over the years. Whether at the Bloor location, Cambridge, Ottawa, Saint John, Fredericton, Moncton, Halifax or New Minas (I think those are all the ones I've dealt with over the years). 

Anyway, the people at all of these shops have always been very good to deal with, and would generally go out of their way to provide excellent service, only to be limited by the seemingly counter-productive corporate policies of L&M. Alot of them were around long before L&M came onto the scene (at least in the Maritimes). 

My interpretation of their policies may just be a result of my mis-interpretation of musical instruments as something a little more personal than say, a hammer. Unfortunately the 'personality' of musical instruments seems to be beyond the scope of L&M, which generally comes to an organization once you get people with MBA's involved in running it. I assume that if L&M stopped selling instruments all together and focused solely on 'widgets', management would be none the wiser, as it all looks the same on the balance sheet.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I have had no issues in person in a store either. My major issue as I mentioned was constant delays ordering items. I found a store the same distance drive for me that is honest about ordering products, and has never had a delay to date. And if they do, they are sure to update me. I don't expect a store to carry every item in stock, but they should be able to order items in a timely fashion, and be able to give fairly precise info. Especially a Canada wide chain that should have something setup to get items from other stores if they don't have stock. I don't blame the staff in the stores for these issues.


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## Guest (Oct 23, 2012)

Hope I didn't sound like I was coming down on L&M too hard. For years, the staff at the Bloor and Ossington location were nothing but stellar to deal with. When I was humping the dream, they were there helping us with sound reinforcement rentals and gear financing and advice that really did make a difference in our quality of life as a band.

I don't really go in to the Ottawa store enough to have a strong opinion any way about it. For it's size (which is small) they seem to do a good job of keeping a little bit of everything on the floor. The guitar department and rental department staff are all nice guys and I sure enjoy chatting with them when I'm there.


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## markxander (Oct 24, 2009)

Just moved to Sudbury... First city I've ever been in without and Long and McQuade, and I really miss it. There are a few guitar shops, but they keep weird hours and don't tend to have the strings I like in stock or much of a selection.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

I read the Thread that switters provided the link to at the Gibson board. It appears they are suggesting that it is somehow the fault of Canadian Law that does not allow the Gibson USA warranty to be honoured in Canada. That appears to be rubbish. If any of our members have purchased new Martin guitars they know they have a Lifetime warranty. Heck, about 20 years ago I sent my D-28 for a neck reset, under warranty. Martin has THE best warranty in the business and it applies to Canadian owners.


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

I like the Ottawa store! Not too in your face and not too busy either. I like how they'll help you if you want it, leave you alone if you don't. Talk to Matt Coburn (the big dude with a serious goatee). He's the guy that'll really help you out. Good experience with Ryan Crawford as well.

As far as Gibson month goes, I was after a J45 so I started looking around a few weeks ahead of time. I sat there in L&M Ottawa for a few hours in Sept and found a pretty special sounding Hummingbird on the floor. They weren't able to offer me the 0% in Sept but they said that with a deposit, they'd hold on to it for me or I could buy it and return it and then finance it in October. I'm not sure if this is common practice, but they do seem like they'll work with you. From my experience, they seem like pretty normal dudes who love guitars. Much like most of us!

I'd say this _looking in advance_ approach might be a good one. Gibson Month is a busy one for them, especially with Gibsons, of course. Especially if you subscribe to this idea that there are a lot of bad Gibsons out there idea, it's probably not a good idea to walk into _any_ store on their busiest (for Gibsons anyway) month and expect to find the perfect one and walk out with it that day. If you order something in advance, it'll give you a better chance. I doubt they'd hold you to it, especially in October, if you didn't love what came in. A nice way to beat the rush too.

Sorry to hear you had a bad experience.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

chimo said:


> As far as the 0% promotion goes, keep in mind that it's a "0% Financing for up to 12 months on Yorkville related product". Anywhere you go there's always a down payment expected when you finance something (it's a substantial security measure), or there's hidden fees with crippling interest rates. With L&M there are no hidden fees and when there's interest charged it's pretty reasonable as compared to other 'corporate' finance plans. It's unfortunate that you were surprised/not informed about it but it's something that in my experience most people come to expect. Also talk with the salespeople - generally they're work w/ you to find a down payment that works for you.


Not for cars. There shouldn't need to be any security measures when they do a credit check on you and get your credit card info.

Hey...I'm not knocking the plan...it's a good plan but they should not expect downpayment the way they advertise it. 

You should ghet a bit of a raise though, the way that you are defending L&M tooth and nail!! Anyway, that's ok by me too. I like the store and it's always nice to have a consistent supplier in the market. I have bought much through them including my first Gibson and a nice Traynor YCV using the 0%* pay 25% down now and pay the rest of the next 12 months *plan.

See? That wasn't so hard to spell out the plan as it really is, was it?

I am actually surprised that they don't offer 0 down because (as another thread talks about) people don't have cash even though they can make payments.


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

I like L&M for certain things but would never buy an expensive guitar/amp from them again. I hate it when music stores try to make you pay MAP on big ticket items.

chimo, I don't know where you are getting your info from but there no Gibson lifetime warranty if the guitar is purchased in Canada. That only applies to guitars purchased from authorized US dealers, and yes, they have to be serviced in the US for Gibson to pay for any warranty work. Gibson sells guitars to Yorkville "as is" and then Yorkville offers you, the buyer, a 1 year warranty. That is directly from the people I have dealt with in Yorkville and I also followed up and asked Gibson directly. Same thing - 1 year warranty on Gibson guitars purchased in Canada.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

What's MAP mean? Pretty sure I have seen it before but I am drawing a blank on it.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Are Nine said:


> I like L&M for certain things but would never buy an expensive guitar/amp from them again. I hate it when music stores try to make you pay MAP on big ticket items.
> 
> chimo, I don't know where you are getting your info from but there no Gibson lifetime warranty if the guitar is purchased in Canada. That only applies to guitars purchased from authorized US dealers, and yes, they have to be serviced in the US for Gibson to pay for any warranty work. Gibson sells guitars to Yorkville "as is" and then Yorkville offers you, the buyer, a 1 year warranty. That is directly from the people I have dealt with in Yorkville and I also followed up and asked Gibson directly. Same thing - 1 year warranty on Gibson guitars purchased in Canada.


This is one problem I have with my local L&M. Although the same problem exists in pretty much any sales driven store. Chimo, please don't take this as a knock on you. There are a couple of people, one in particular, at the closest L&M to me who are so completely full of crap. The stuff I hear them telling people, especially beginners, is just ridiculous. If a sales person doesn't know something, I'd rather they just say they don't know and go look it up or ask someone else.

Further on that warranty, are the Gibson guitars basically the same price in Canada as the US? But they don't offer the same warranty? That is really crappy of them.


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## Rideski (Feb 25, 2009)

smorgdonkey said:


> What's MAP mean? Pretty sure I have seen it before but I am drawing a blank on it.


Manufacturers Advertised Price


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

torndownunit said:


> Further on that warranty, are the Gibson guitars basically the same price in Canada as the US? But they don't offer the same warranty? That is really crappy of them.


HAH! I didn't even get a truss rod wrench with my new Gibson Custom Shop ES 330. They are a rare bird and not the usual hex key so you would think it is more important to include one with this guitar. Just another sign of corner cutting to the chagrin of the end user.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

Are Nine said:


> I like L&M for certain things but would never buy an expensive guitar/amp from them again. I hate it when music stores try to make you pay MAP on big ticket items.



Maybe I'm not baller enough to buy big ticket items, but I've always paid "street" price -- or better -- at L&M here in Ottawa. And I've never had an issue with the way they treat me.

I will say this though -- their sales staff have warned me not to follow the web site as gospel, because often times stuff is listed as being in stock when it has sold.


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## astyles (Apr 6, 2009)

I can't complain about the L&M shop here in Ottawa at all... always received good service from the staff. In fact, when I bought a used Epiphone Custom there a while back, it didn't come with a case but the sales guy asked me to wait a minute as he ran downstairs and retured with a Gibson white plush case for it, no cost. The guitar itself was in mint condition and half the price of a new one almost right next to it :s . I later order a Gibson Custom from the same shop and asked for a rough ETA... they called on the day they orginally specified to say it had arrived.

And +1 to Chimo for giving this thread some valuable insight and perspective...


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## chimo (Mar 29, 2006)

Thanks for all the input folks. I've not taken any offense to anything implied if anyone was wondering  . I do my job the best I can with the information I'm given and when information gets cloudy I tend not to put up with it long. I hope this puts the issues to rest. 

This comes a day later than expected but this is the skinny on Gibson's warranty service in Canada. 

*It does not exist. There is no implied factory warranty service for any Gibson or Epiphone product sold in Canada. *. I'm sorry for the mis-information I supplied and any confusion I might have fostered. 

That being said, as mentioned before, Yorkville does offer a standard one year warranty w/ all Gibson and Epiphone products. If buying the product from Long and McQuade this warranty is available to be extended as long as the customer chooses at the point of sale. Yes it will cost you more money but it is a warranty that is very comprehensive. 

Cost is as follows:
GUITARS: 4% of selling price to double the warranty from 1 year
to 2 years. 4% for each additional year. $10 minimum.
$45 maximum.​
This warranty covers anything/everything to do with playability of the instrument and manufacture's defects and workmanship. It does not cover abuse or string breakage (unless is deemed a fault of the instrument - burrs on the saddle etc.). If service is required, a loaner is given out while it's being fixed. If it needs to be shipped for service, L&M pays the shipping. 

If anyone wants the brochure, PM me and I can send a pdf. I can't link it as it's on a secure employee site. 

Now, actually look at Gibson's USA warranty. Pay attention to what's not covered. I've highlighted it in red. 

Gibson USA and Custom Warranty

Your new Gibson instrument is warranted to be free from defects in materials and workmanship for the life of the original retail purchaser, subject to the limitations contained in this warranty.

If at any time this Gibson instrument malfunctions as a result of faulty materials or workmanship, Gibson will repair the defect(s) or replace the instrument, as it deems appropriate in its sole discretion. Gibson reserves the right to use materials regularly utilized at the time of repair in the event that original materials are no longer available. If replacement of your instrument is deemed appropriate by our staff, Gibson will replace the instrument with one of the same or most similar style of a value not in excess of the original purchase price of your instrument.

This warranty covers the cost of both labor and materials on any repair deemed necessary by our Customer Service Representative for the lifetime of the original purchaser. In the unlikely event that your instrument is destroyed, lost or damaged beyond repair, while in the possession of Gibson for repair,Gibson will replace that instrument with one of the same or most similar style of a value not in excess of the original purchase price of your instrument. Any insurance covering the instrument, including but not limited to collector's value insurance, must be carried by owner at owner's expense.

THIS WARRANTY IS EXTENDED TO THE ORIGINAL RETAIL PURCHASER ONLY AND MAY NOT BE TRANSFERRED OR ASSIGNED TO SUBSEQUENT OWNERS. IN ORDER TO VALIDATE YOUR WARRANTY, AND AS A CONDITION PRECEDENT TO WARRANTY COVERAGE HEREUNDER, YOU MUST RETURN YOUR WARRANTY REGISTRATION CARD WITHIN FIFTEEN (15) DAYS FOLLOWING THE ORIGINAL DATE OF PURCHASE. YOUR PROOF OF PURCHASE OR SALES RECEIPT MUST ACCOMPANY ALL REQUESTS FOR WARRANTY COVERAGE.
This Warranty Is Subject To The Following Limitations

THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:

Any instrument that has been altered or modified in any way or upon which the serial number has been tampered with or altered.
Any instrument whose warranty card has been altered or upon which false information has been given.
Any instrument that has been damaged due to misuse, negligence, accident, or improper operation.
The subjective issue of tonal characteristics.
Shipping damages of any kind.
Any instrument that has been subjected to extremes of humidity or temperature
Normal wear and tear (i.e., worn frets, worn machine heads, worn plating, string replacement, scratched pickguards, or damages to or discoloration of the instrument finish for any reason).
Any instrument that has been purchased from an unauthorized dealer, or upon which unauthorized repair or service has been performed.
Any factory installed electronics after a period of one (I) year following the original date of purchase.
Cracking, discoloration or damage of any sort to the finish or plating for any reason.
Gibson does not warranty the playability of a instrument whose "action" is lower than the standard "action" as defined in the owners manual.

GIBSON MAKES NO OTHER EXPRESS WARRANTY OF ANY KIND WHATSOEVER. ALL IMPLIED, WARRANTIES, INCLUDING WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, EXCEEDING THE SPECIFIC PROVISIONS OF THIS WARRANTY ARE HEREBY DISCLAIMED AND EXCLUDED FROM THIS WARRANTY. SOME STATES AND/OR COUNTRIES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES SO THAT THE ABOVE MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

GIBSON SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL OR OTHER SIMILAR DAMAGES SUFFERED BY THE PURCHASER OR ANY THIRD PARTY, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION. DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS OR BUSINESS OR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THE INSTRUMENT, WHETHER IN CONTRACT OR IN TORT, EVEN IF GIBSON OR ITS AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, AND GIBSON SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY EXPENSES, CLAIMS, OR SUITS ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO ANY OF THE FOREGOING.​

Gibson's warranty applies only to people that register the product within 15 days of purchase. But really there is no warranty - What kind of claim can you make that's covered? Electronics: Yes, but only for 12 months. Glue joints? Maybe. Depends if it's deemed misused or abused (by who?). Doesn't sound right? Nope. All of this is possibly expected ... 

But the final one is the kicker: 
_Gibson does not warranty the playability of a instrument whose "action" is lower than the standard "action" as defined in the owners manual._ 

In layman's terms this translates to : We do not warranty neck twists, neck hops or any issue with the neck that results in a change in "action"

In the end: Gibson's warranty does not apply to instruments bought in Canada. Arguably however, their warranty doesn't cover anything anyway. Yorkville provides a warranty that is certainly shorter than the Gibson claim, but it actually does you some good.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Man about the one thing I have learned from this thread is that I don't ever need a new Gibson guitar lol.


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## chimo (Mar 29, 2006)

Hopefully you don't keep that opinion. The fact of the matter is that, as a whole Gibson is making great guitars. Their QC over the course of history is full of peaks and troughs and we're definitely in an era that in the future people will regard as being a time of high quality. 

There's very few issues I've seen come through with new Gibsons. Those issues have been taken care of swiftly by Yorkville. When push comes to shove 99+% of issues with a guitar will happen after one change of season. It gives lots of time to adress any issues that manifest.


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## switters (Dec 19, 2011)

torndownunit said:


> Man about the one thing I have learned from this thread is that I don't ever need a new Gibson guitar lol.



That's the real lesson to be learned. Especially with the prices of Gibsons now. If you're planning on spending big bucks on a Gibson, do yourself a favor and spend a little bit more and get a Collings. The price difference between, for example, a Gibson ES-335 (not including the plain top, 'budget' model, hard to say about a >2K guitar) and a Collings I-35LC is going to be around $500. What you get for that extra $500 is an immeasurable difference in quality and support. In the case of the Collings, you're buying an instrument, and not a product. 

I've bought 3 new Gibson guitars over the past 15 years or so. They all sound fabulous and play wonderfully, but each one has had quite alot of work done shortly after purchase to make them playable: new nuts, saddles, a few setups, rewiring, fret dressing.... (in one case all the frets started lifting out after about 2 years). One (oddly the most expensive) has some rather ridiculous manufacturing flaws, which are effectively minor and cosmetic, but still things that should never have left the factory. The 'unfortunate' side of that guitar is it is by far the best sounding acoustic guitar I've ever played, so I've learned to live with the flaws and file them under the cost of owning a Gibson guitar. 

Buy used or don't buy. I have a rule not to even play new Gibson guitars in the store anymore.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

I can't really count how many Gibson guitars I have bought over the years. Some I sold for financial reasons and the rest I've kept. I still have 2 Standards, 1 Classic, 3 R9's, a Custom Gold Top, a Junior and a Special. Not one of these guitars have issues. Out of those 9 guitars, I purchased 6 of them new, 3 from L&M at Bloor. They also let me dicker on price. Maybe I've just been lucky, or maybe the "problems" with Gibsons have somehow been overstated.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

chimo said:


> Hopefully you don't keep that opinion. The fact of the matter is that, as a whole Gibson is making great guitars. Their QC over the course of history is full of peaks and troughs and we're definitely in an era that in the future people will regard as being a time of high quality.
> 
> There's very few issues I've seen come through with new Gibsons. Those issues have been taken care of swiftly by Yorkville. When push comes to shove 99+% of issues with a guitar will happen after one change of season. It gives lots of time to adress any issues that manifest.


There are plenty of other high quality instruments. I am not missing anything not buying a Gibson, and I am definitely not missing anything not buying one new in the store. (I have owned 2 in the past, which I bought used, so it's not a question of knowing nothing about them).


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## soldierscry (Jan 20, 2008)

I will chip in and say that the l&m extended warranty paid off for me (I normally never get it) for some reason I got it on a used g -major and the screen started to go and the sound would cut out. I dropped it off at the store and they gave me a g-major 2 as a loaner. It ended up being shipped back to Tc for repair and all covered by the warranty. I just got it back and it is as good as new. (The repair actually cost more than I paid for the unit so it was worth getting the warranty.


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## bbm7b5 (Oct 26, 2012)

MAP stands for Minimum Advertised Price. It was originally put in place by suppliers in the U.S. to combat the price cutting that was going on in the U.S. especially on the internet. There were internet dealers selling product at prices that would quickly put a store out of business. This was an attempt to put a bottom on the advertised prices. The FTC sued the dealers association charging that this was equivalent to price fixing. It is not, in fact - all you have to do is "call for price" on some web sites and you will get a lower price. Not sure how that lawsuit turned out. 
L&M seems to have a very sophisticated order system - when stuff arrives at the store, you get an email that is automatically generated. I know that by pressing one button they can see if something is in any store in the country. No store can build the products you want, and if Fender- who is notorious for taking forever - doesn't have a product, no amount of cursing out the store will get it to you any faster. Like all big businesses, even the good ones, there are going to be good employees and weak employees, and a store can never be any better than its employees. I heard a story about the Toronto store that their repair shop, by mistake, damaged a Fender guitar that had taken months to arrive. They found another store that was not even an L&M, bought the guitar from them and gave it to the customer.


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## HarpBoy (Jun 10, 2009)

Robert1950 said:


> I have nothing but good things to say about my dealings with the L&M stores in downtown Toronto and Oshawa.


I deal pretty much exclusively with the Oshawa store (for more than 20 years now) and can say that those guys are great. I think it must have to do with the stores that are close in proximity to Jack Long have long time employees that know and buy into the original vision. I can't help buy think that a store in Vancouver is going to be pretty far removed emotionally from the corporate culture (which is pretty good, from all accounts).


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