# Sleazy Salesman



## 3mar67 (Jan 19, 2011)

I went to a Kitchener, Ontario music store (a Gibson dealer), and tried out a new J-45.
The salesperson told me if I bought the guitar, he'd be willing to throw in the case for free.
I put back the guitar, and left.
His last job must have been at a used car lot.


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

3mar67 said:


> I went to a Kitchener, Ontario music store (a Gibson dealer), and tried out a new J-45.
> The salesperson told me if I bought the guitar, he'd be willing to throw in the case for free.
> I put back the guitar, and left.
> His last job must have been at a used car lot.


But they come with cases don’t they?


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## 3mar67 (Jan 19, 2011)

silvertonebetty said:


> But they come with cases don’t they?


Correct. They come with a Gibson case.
He wanted me to think he was giving me a deal.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

3mar67 said:


> Correct. They come with a Gibson case.
> He wanted me to think he was giving me a deal.


He was, he could have charged you for the case 🤣

Why does everyone just assume they are dealing with a rube


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I had a similar experience at a Sunglasses Hut. I bought a pair of Ray Bans and a pair of Revos, both of which come with some sort of case. The sales lady rings me up and says “for an extra $5 donation per pair I can give you cases for them.” I reply that I’ll just take the cases that came with them. Then she tries to tell me that they don’t come with cases. I called her on her bullshit and got my cases. A completely despicable sales tactic. Trying to get you pay for something twice. Fak you.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Would you have bought it otherwise?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I'd rather buy the case and have the guitar thrown in for free.


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## 3mar67 (Jan 19, 2011)

Mark Brown said:


> He was, he could have charged you for the case 🤣
> 
> Why does everyone just assume they are dealing with a rube


They must deal with a lot of rubes.
None of the guitars had price tags because, as I was told -- "prices are constantly fluctuating."
I feel sorry for the unsuspecting parents whose kids take lessons there and then get taken to the cleaners when buying an instrument.


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

If the total price was right, I wouldn't care what some idiot salesman says.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

When I contacted Moon Guitars about a case for my Moon mandolin, they informed me that it had shipped with a case. It took a bit of conniving but I got the retailer/owner to admit they sold the case separately...and their staff (who sold me the mandolin) weren't aware. The owner was a huge dick about it. Moon, graciously, recommended a good alternative (from Gator) which I still use.


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## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

i'd get violent if some silky handed salesman tried ripping me off. I'll just tell the judge his hands reminded me of a horny jesuit priest. 😂


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## Pedro-x (Mar 7, 2015)

Authorized Gibson dealer ? ... I think an email to Gibson can fix that problem from happening again.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Pedro-x said:


> Authorized Gibson dealer ? ... I think an email to Gibson can fix that problem from happening again.


Gibson isn’t going to care about one random dude in a guitar store. If they were trying to sell a fake, that would be a different story.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Not a lot of love for sales professionals here, LOL.

Because we're all scum bags trying to fleece people.

Funny shit.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

3mar67 said:


> Correct. They come with a Gibson case.
> He wanted me to think he was giving me a deal.



I would have assumed it was the salesman's bad attempt at humor. He's just trying to start a bit of a repoire and he's not good at it. Its amazing that one stupid comment like that and you're out of there. Even if he were a good salesman it sounds like he'd be better off with out a customer like you.
If you're some one that is really looking for a higher end guitar like that then you should know the score as far as pricing long before you go in the store. So the only determination is, is this particular guitar "the one". If I run in to a guitar where the price is right and its "the one" then I really don't care how stupid the salesman is. I buy a lot on line but when I buy local its a lot from L&M and the salesman is just about nothing in the equation except how fast can he get me what I need off the floor or the back room. I treat them friendly and they treat me friendly. I laugh at they're good or stupid jokes and they laugh at my good or stupid jokes.
I wonder if these salesman have a forum they go to to complain like "This moron come in today to try a J45, I could tell right away he wasn't interested, tried to lighten the mood with a joke and he upped and walked away".


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## Fred Gifford (Sep 2, 2019)

Pedro-x said:


> Authorized Gibson dealer ? ... I think an email to Gibson can fix that problem from happening again.


in any case please tell us the name of the store.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Yes, please do. As long as what you say is the truth, they can’t do shit.


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

guitarman2 said:


> I would have assumed it was the salesman's bad attempt at humor. He's just trying to start a bit of a repoire and he's not good at it. Its amazing that one stupid comment like that and you're out of there. Even if he were a good salesman it sounds like he'd be better off with out a customer like you.
> If you're some one that is really looking for a higher end guitar like that then you should know the score as far as pricing long before you go in the store. So the only determination is, is this particular guitar "the one". If I run in to a guitar where the price is right and its "the one" then I really don't care how stupid the salesman is. I buy a lot on line but when I buy local its a lot from L&M and the salesman is just about nothing in the equation except how fast can he get me what I need off the floor or the back room. I treat them friendly and they treat me friendly. I laugh at they're good or stupid jokes and they laugh at my good or stupid jokes.
> I wonder if these salesman have a forum they go to to complain like "This moron come in today to try a J4, I could tell right away he wasn't interested, tried to lighten the mood with a joke and he upped and walked away".



It is indeed possible that it happened like that, we were not there.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Latole said:


> It is indeed possible that it happened like that, we were not there.


"We were not there", is exactly why we should consider the other side. I've been around a long time and spent most of my life in music stores to know my thoughts are likely what happened. I've heard a lot of comments like that from sales guys "tongue in cheek". Its easy for us to exercise our superiority over these guys just trying to do a job a sometimes thankless job. I used to do it my self.
I've never been a salesman in a music store but sometimes I do feel for them.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> Yes, please do. As long as what you say is the truth, they can’t do shit.


Maybe they can't but for one 3 second comment that may or may not have been a bad joke then the OP walks away and we're going to assume he was trying to rip off the OP? Pathetic.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I suppose you’re right. I can easily imagine a scenario where a salesperson jokingly says “and I’ll even throw in the case for free”. I guess the salesperson’s motives would be more accurately interpreted by the comments following the possible “joke”.

Personally, I wouldn’t have walked out right away, unless I wasn’t really serious about buying anyhow, or I was looking for an excuse not to buy. I would have called him on the comment and see what he had to say.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@3mar67 I have been going to that music store for many years and have been pleased with the service. PLEASE consider phoning the store and ask to speak to Markus. The store needs to know about these kinds of unfortunate events in order to make changes. It MIGHT have been an honest mistake by a new employee.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I still want to know if he was going to buy the guitar.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@3mar67 If you prefer not to call the store, you could email them...as you did with Mr. Long of L&M.
Did you ever resolve this? St. Catharines L&M funny business Could you please update us...Thanks.

Please keep us updated with your progress regarding this (present) concern. Thanks.


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## gretsch4me (Jun 2, 2018)

3mar67 said:


> I went to a Kitchener, Ontario music store (a Gibson dealer), and tried out a new J-45.
> The salesperson told me if I bought the guitar, he'd be willing to throw in the case for free.
> I put back the guitar, and left.
> His last job must have been at a used car lot.


And I bet you'll never set foot in that store again. Speaking from the same experience.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

The sleazy salesmen phrase goes together about the same as corrupt politicians. When someone is constantly being rewarded for their misdeeds, they tend to repeat them.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Latole said:


> If the total price was right, I wouldn't care what some idiot salesman says.


The type of service and level of integrity before the sale is usually a strong indicator of what you can expect after the sale.
I’d walk too.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Milkman said:


> Not a lot of love for sales professionals here, LOL.
> 
> Because we're all scum bags trying to fleece people.
> 
> Funny shit.


I've worked as a mechanic for close to 20 years. I had to do 5000+ hours of apprenticeship, I had to do 3 levels of trade school, purchase tens of thousands of dollars worth of tools, and pass a written exam with questions so outdated, there's virtually no way anyone starting in the trade today will ever see them or could be realistically expected to know the answers to them; at the time I wrote the ministry of training bragged there was an 80%+ fail rate. 

I still, to this day, get phones calls from friends and family. "Hey, my car is in, and they say I need _insert service here_. Do I really need that, or is it a scam?" Sometimes I'll say "It's not a scam, but you probably don't need it." Sometimes I say, "Yes. You need that, and here's why." Regardless of which response they get, they'll tell me "Nah, I don't think I do need that. I think they're just trying to rip me off."

I'm also absolutely bewildered by the amount of customers who come in with a specific complaint and then when handed and estimate say, "Uhhhh, ummmmm. My _Dad, Husband, boyfriend, cousin_ is a mechanic. I'll get them to do it." No, they aren't. If they were, you wouldn't be here. But I digress. All that is to say, I feel your pain.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

Okay Player said:


> I've worked as a mechanic for close to 20 years. I had to do 5000+ hours of apprenticeship, I had to do 3 levels of trade school, purchase tens of thousands of dollars worth of tools, and pass a written exam with questions so outdated, there's virtually no way anyone starting in the trade today will ever see them or could be realistically expected to know the answers to them; at the time I wrote the ministry of training bragged there was an 80%+ fail rate.
> 
> I still, to this day, get phones calls from friends and family. "Hey, my car is in, and they say I need _insert service here_. Do I really need that, or is it a scam?" Sometimes I'll say "It's not a scam, but you probably don't need it." Sometimes I say, "Yes. You need that, and here's why." Regardless of which response they get, they'll tell me "Nah, I don't think I do need that. I think they're just trying to rip me off."
> 
> I'm also absolutely bewildered by the amount of customers who come in with a specific complaint and then when handed and estimate say, "Uhhhh, ummmmm. My _Dad, Husband, boyfriend, cousin_ is a mechanic. I'll get them to do it." No, they aren't. If they were, you wouldn't be here. But I digress. All that is to say, I feel your pain.


The problem is -- and this is a comment about customers and not mechanics -- that they come into the experience expecting to get ripped off. It has happened (and has happened to me), so many go into the situation expecting it, even if it's not warranted.

I have been lucky in that I have mostly had good experiences, and learned from the bad ones. The biggest lesson was to not go in with a confrontational mindset. It always helps.


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## Permanent Waves (Jun 2, 2020)

3mar67 said:


> They must deal with a lot of rubes.
> None of the guitars had price tags because, as I was told -- "prices are constantly fluctuating."
> I feel sorry for the unsuspecting parents whose kids take lessons there and then get taken to the cleaners when buying an instrument.


Damn, I thought those kind of tactics died when (Inter)Continental Music in Ottawa closed last year. 
Ironically they were an Authorized Gibson Dealer in Ottawa in the early 80's, until one day when they weren't anymore.I think Gibson would be interested in hearing about this. 
I'm surprised they are playing these kinds of games - people who buy higher-end are usually knowledgeable enough not to fall for that. 
I'm the same way - I haven't had a similar experience at a music store, but with some local resellers/flippers. Wouldn't buy a used guitar pick from them.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> "We were not there", is exactly why we should consider the other side. I've been around a long time and spent most of my life in music stores to know my thoughts are likely what happened. I've heard a lot of comments like that from sales guys "tongue in cheek". Its easy for us to exercise our superiority over these guys just trying to do a job a sometimes thankless job. I used to do it my self.
> I've never been a salesman in a music store but sometimes I do feel for them.


Here is my issue. I am super respectful to all service workers, it's something anyone who knows me would comment on. As far as music stores, I have been told these kind of comments. I don't get upset and I ask them to clarify. What's unfortunately been sad is that the comments weren't tongue in cheek and it was them treating me like a rube. In those cases I most definitely don't go to the store again.

Edit: also, I am not taking the time to talk to management. It's their job to watch and manage their employees, not mine. They just won't get my business. That's it.


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## vanqr (10 mo ago)

I bet, if you haggled strongly enough, he’d even throw in the two strap buttons and a free guitar pick from the assorted box by the counter hahaha. In all seriousness, that is pretty unfortunate though. That stuff can feel pretty patronizing at best, and straight up dishonest at worst


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> Here is my issue. I am super respectful to all service workers, it's something anyone who knows me would comment on. As far as music stores, I have been told these kind of comments. I don't get upset and I ask them to clarify. What's unfortunately been sad is that the comments weren't tongue in cheek and it was them treating me like a rube. In those cases I most definitely don't go to the store again.
> 
> Edit: also, I am not taking the time to talk to management. It's their job to watch and manage their employees, not mine. They just won't get my business. That's it.


Are you leaving something out? From what I see you have a 10 second conversation where by a sales guy says "I'll throw in the case for free". And you walk away in a huff thinking he's serious. Thats my kind of humor. I love jokes with a serious look on my face. It gives that priceless "deer in the head lights" look where the joke recipient is trying to determine whether I'm serious or not. The dumb ones never figure it out but I don't run across many of those.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

33 posts and no recent responses from the OP.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

Permanent Waves said:


> Damn, I thought those kind of tactics died when (Inter)Continental Music in Ottawa closed last year.
> Ironically they were an Authorized Gibson Dealer in Ottawa in the early 80's, until one day when they weren't anymore.


They closed? Wow, the stuff that happens when you don't leave the house....I thought that guy and his sheisterism were eternal.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

greco said:


> 33 posts and no recent responses from the OP.


Yep. Either a very busy weekend or was expecting a "yeah screw 'em!" and didn't like the other reactions.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I'm going to open a store called Sleazy's Music.


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## 3mar67 (Jan 19, 2011)

greco said:


> 33 posts and no recent responses from the OP.


Well, it's my wife's birthday, and we had a full day -- but here I am...lol.


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## 3mar67 (Jan 19, 2011)

vanqr said:


> I bet, if you haggled strongly enough, he’d even throw in the two strap buttons and a free guitar pick from the assorted box by the counter hahaha. In all seriousness, that is pretty unfortunate though. That stuff can feel pretty patronizing at best, and straight up dishonest at worst


It's funny you should say that, hilarious actually because that is exactly what happened.
I drove 90 minutes to try a guitar I saw on their website,
When I got there I compared two J-45s side by side.
I liked them both, but I did prefer the other one over the one I went to see specifically.
But it is black, and I have never wanted a black acoustic (that's just my personal preference).
So I told the salesman I'm going to think about it, and maybe wait a couple of days and come back and do a final comparison -- and decide if I could live with a black acoustic.
He said, if you buy it today -- I can't do better on the price, but I can throw in a case and maybe a strap.
I told him, well these are supposed to come with a case aren't they -- which caught him off guard, and he stammered -- get this -- "they come with something."
What the hell is that supposed to mean? They come with something.
First they don't come with one -- and now they "come with something."
Maybe he wanted me to think they came with a gig bag and he was going to upgrade me to a hardshell case for free? I don't know. 
It was not a joke, it was not an attempt at humour, it was an unethical sales tactic.
Anyway, when I decided to post a quick abbreviated version of my experience, I didn't realize all hell would break loose and a couple of people would get so triggered by it.


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## 3mar67 (Jan 19, 2011)

player99 said:


> I'm going to open a store called Sleazy's Music.


Need a salesperson, I know one I could recommend.


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## 3mar67 (Jan 19, 2011)

FatStrat2 said:


> The sleazy salesmen phrase goes together about the same as corrupt politicians. When someone is constantly being rewarded for their misdeeds, they tend to repeat them.


Exactly.


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## 3mar67 (Jan 19, 2011)

greco said:


> @3mar67 If you prefer not to call the store, you could email them...as you did with Mr. Long of L&M.
> Did you ever resolve this? St. Catharines L&M funny business Could you please update us...Thanks.
> 
> Please keep us updated with your progress regarding this (present) concern. Thanks.


L&M did get in touch with me and explained what they thought had happened, with a mixup between two similar guitars they had in stock.
Since that incident, the St. Catharines store has actually been excellent to deal with.


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## 3mar67 (Jan 19, 2011)

Budda said:


> Would you have bought it otherwise?


I was undecided, I had planned to go back in a few days for a final audition, but like I said in another post, the one I preferred in feel and sound is black. And I've never wanted a black acoustic. So I guess I was going to see if I could talk myself into liking the colour.


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## 3mar67 (Jan 19, 2011)

Latole said:


> If the total price was right, I wouldn't care what some idiot salesman says.


True, when you find a guitar that feels right, you should go for it because it may be a while before you find another.
In my case, I wasn't exactly sold, but I hadn't written it off.
And these days, the price is what it is -- not much room for haggling in the current market.


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## 3mar67 (Jan 19, 2011)

guitarman2 said:


> I would have assumed it was the salesman's bad attempt at humor.
> That's your first mistake, you assume.
> 
> He's just trying to start a bit of a repoire
> ...


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

3mar67 said:


> It's funny you should say that, hilarious actually because that is exactly what happened.
> I drove 90 minutes to try a guitar I saw on their website,
> When I got there I compared two J-45s side by side.
> I liked them both, but I did prefer the other one over the one I went to see specifically.
> ...


Convenient that your story got much more detailed after some responses that you didn't like.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

All hell hath broken loose. lol


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Yeah I’m not sure where the “triggered” comment factors in. Is that code for…someone who disagrees with you?


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

> Are you leaving something out? From what I see you have a 10 second conversation where by a sales guy says "I'll throw in the case for free". And you walk away in a huff thinking he's serious. Thats my kind of humor. I love jokes with a serious look on my face. It gives that priceless "deer in the head lights" look where the joke recipient is trying to determine whether I'm serious or not. The dumb ones never figure it out but I don't run across many of those.


I wouldn't no. That's the OP who did that. I said, I actually talk to people and clarify what they meant if I think I'm being taken advantage of and base my reaction on that. Go ahead and put words in my mouth though and imply that I'm dumb.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

L&m doesnt get commission so trying to upsell on a case isnt actually ant kind of “win” for the floor guy. Just in case not everyone is aware.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I think there's a lot more "sleaze" in the used guitar market than at any major store.


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## Frenchy (Mar 23, 2011)

Bad experiences can happen even in the most reputable of places. I can feel for the OP.

I once had an issue with L&M due to a stupid packaging issue and wrote about it here... I was ripped a second asshole by members of the board. 

Fucked up experience can happen, anywhere... I was a sales director for over 20 years, shit happens, its the way you resolve it that justify the experience, mine was a bad one same as yours. You just cant write about them here.. You'll be the first asshole for pointing it out.


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## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

Yeah but there are people who take a opinion the wrong way, hell i had a **** couple start screaming at me in the park when their dog ran up on mine, they apologized and i replied "naw its cool the park is for them" No clue as to why she/him starting yelling "what do mean?" wtf do you mean by that??? I was shocked man i just walked away. Felt bad for their dog. So just goes to show a simple phrase can be misconstrued and you just make for good reading imo.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

3mar67 said:


> It's funny you should say that, hilarious actually because that is exactly what happened. I drove 90 minutes to try a guitar I saw on their website, When I got there I compared two J-45s side by side. I liked them both, but I did prefer the other one over the one I went to see specifically. But it is black, and I have never wanted a black acoustic (that's just my personal preference). So I told the salesman I'm going to think about it, and maybe wait a couple of days and come back and do a final comparison -- and decide if I could live with a black acoustic. He said, if you buy it today -- I can't do better on the price, but I can throw in a case and maybe a strap. I told him, well these are supposed to come with a case aren't they -- which caught him off guard, and he stammered -- get this -- "they come with something." What the hell is that supposed to mean? They come with something. First they don't come with one -- and now they "come with something." Maybe he wanted me to think they came with a gig bag and he was going to upgrade me to a hardshell case for free? I don't know. It was not a joke, it was not an attempt at humour, it was an unethical sales tactic. Anyway, when I decided to post a quick abbreviated version of my experience, I didn't realize all hell would break loose and a couple of people would get so triggered by it.


Guitars Canada members never let a good crisis go to waste! Once these threads reach critical mass, they take on a life of their own and grow into something unrecognizable. It's kinda fascinating, like trying to look away from a train wreck.


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

Back in the day GC used to have pro musicians working the floor and I always welcomed their input but as of some years back it seems they replaced them all with young dumb and full of themselves sales associates. After 50+ years of playing and buying guitars I've never expressed my feelings about that but next time out I might just let one of them know that I've racked up more time standing in front of the urinal than they have playing guitar so go away and I'll let you know when it's time to ring it up.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Makes me wonder what the NAPA threads are like.


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