# Best 600$ tube amp?



## Kapo_Polenton (Jun 20, 2007)

Hey everybody, I've been noticing more "recording" tube amps that you can crank to take advantage of power amp distortion coming on to the market.. the Tiny Terror from Orange seems to be one that gets a lot of praise and a lot of attention. The clips sound pretty from what I can tell, what else have you come across in that price range that does this?. I think The peave windsor studio might be along the same lines but there are not many clips available for this one yet.. I'm not necessarily looking to buy one right now, but looking down the line at something that might be more portable then say a 50 watt head and an attenuator.. 


Cheers.


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## Tarl (Feb 4, 2006)

Look at the V series from Crate (yep Crate!!). I own the 50 watt combo version and love it. Had it almost 2 1/2 yrs now with no problems. They make 5 watt, 15 watt and 30 watt models also .


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## ThePass (Aug 10, 2007)

Or check out Carvin's line. Great gear and prices, plus they pay all the duty fees.


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## Geek (Jun 5, 2007)

ThePass said:


> ...plus they pay all the duty fees.


Given that it's NAFTA duty free.....


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## Kapo_Polenton (Jun 20, 2007)

How does Carvin eat the duties? I had forgotten about them.. I'll have a look to see what they have. I'd like to decide whether or not to build another amp or just buy one by the time December rolls around. Tried the Traynors and found them voiced a little more towards the "scooped" sound. Didn't think they sounded that great when pushed to power amp distortion. (mind you this was the 4 x 10 model, not sure which exact one it was again)

TArl, do you have any posted soundclips of your Crate? Hard to find samples of teh V series and i am very surprised I can't find much on youtube.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

ThePass said:


> Or check out Carvin's line. Great gear and prices, plus they pay all the duty fees.


Did you mean that they pay the brokerage fees??? I can't see them paying GST/PST or HST. You gotta pay dem tases.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

You can get a vintage Traynor YGM-3 or YBA2 for well under your budget.

I am in love with my YBA2A. You can get gain at really reasonable levels with it. More so then the YGM-3 I find. But you get reverb and tremolo on the YGM-3


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> Did you mean that they pay the brokerage fees??? I can't see them paying GST/PST or HST. You gotta pay dem tases.


If I remember correctly when I bought my Legacy head they charged double or triple the normal shipping cost and that covered ALL other expenses, including taxes, duty etc. It was a real deal. I know I only paid double shipping (extra $50) but they had a deal on at the time.


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## Guest (Aug 13, 2007)

Save for 3 more months and get a used Dr. Z Carmen Ghia. :wink:


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

torndownunit said:


> You can get a vintage Traynor YGM-3 or YBA2 for well under your budget.
> 
> I am in love with my YBA2A. You can get gain at really reasonable levels with it. More so then the YGM-3 I find. But you get reverb and tremolo on the YGM-3


Shhhhh!

:wink:


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## Kapo_Polenton (Jun 20, 2007)

I'm totally open to picking one of those up at some point.. I was just a few days too late on a local YBA-2 I beleive it was. Which one of these gives you the most oomph with some mods? I am comfortable modding or rebuilding sections of it. Maybe building a Trinity 18 watt with 6v6's would be what the doctor ordered. Do you guys have clips of your YBA-2's?

As for the Carmen Ghia, I really am not that impressed by Dr. Z's smaller amps.. they really don't do it for me. I am pretty sure the Ghia is what I tried at Lauzon and it seriously lacked in the smooth distortion department for me. A little raspy.. just my view though, i am sure 90% of the population will disagree with me. what can I say, I'm just one man!


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## ThePass (Aug 10, 2007)

davetcan said:


> If I remember correctly when I bought my Legacy head they charged double or triple the normal shipping cost and that covered ALL other expenses, including taxes, duty etc. It was a real deal. I know I only paid double shipping (extra $50) but they had a deal on at the time.




Thats right. They charge a bit more for shipping but IMO it works out for you in the end.

I was on the phone the other day with them and for $480 I could get their Vintage16 amp to my door. I like how they use EL84 tubes, aswell.

I'm gassin' for a California Carved Top something huge.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...i have found my dream recording amp: a beat up tech 21 trademark 60 i bought from a forumite in alberta.

extremely easy to dial in the exact tone you're seeking. it will be all over my next cd.

-dh


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## Kapo_Polenton (Jun 20, 2007)

I think I may hunt for one of these old traynor's after this discussion.. the carvin 16 also looked interesting with a few mods. The tech21 I have tried and found it doesn't do all sounds consistently well like it tries to. A little thin and brittle on some settings..


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Kapo, if you do a search, you will find a thread where I am playing my Reverend through my YBA-2A (the EL84 version). I have my BYOC overdrive going as well, but the amp gets a fair amount of crunch at decent volumes too.


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

Right on David. I've got one as well and they're really good amps. I haven't tried recording with mine yet but I'll give it a shot sometime.



david henman said:


> ...i have found my dream recording amp: a beat up tech 21 trademark 60 i bought from a forumite in alberta.
> 
> extremely easy to dial in the exact tone you're seeking. it will be all over my next cd.
> 
> -dh


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Kapo_Polenton said:


> I think I may hunt for one of these old traynor's after this discussion.. the carvin 16 also looked interesting with a few mods. The tech21 I have tried and found it doesn't do all sounds consistently well like it tries to. A little thin and brittle on some settings..


here's a bit of noodling on my '67 YSR-1 that Wild Bill modded. I've got an OCD and H2O in front of it. Keep in mind it's just my digital still camera mic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YNjJJWgWak

excuse the playing.


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## Kapo_Polenton (Jun 20, 2007)

Nice tone even with the crap cam! I'm looking into the YBA-1, YBA-2 and YGM-3's.. try to narrow the search. Really rich tone from what I can hear.. i could in theory use my BB preamp to give me whatever other grunt i need.


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## Evilmusician (Apr 13, 2007)

Nice tone and playing very floydian !


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

That's some wicked tone Davetcan. I agree very floydian and maybe a little gary moorish. Great job.:rockon:


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

davetcan said:


> here's a bit of noodling on my '67 YSR-1 that Wild Bill modded. I've got an OCD and H2O in front of it. Keep in mind it's just my digital still camera mic.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YNjJJWgWak
> 
> excuse the playing.


What speakers are you using?


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

NB-SK said:


> What speakers are you using?


It's a 1 x 12 cab loaded with a Scumback H75-8HP.

Thanks for the kind comments guys:food-smiley-004:


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

davetcan said:


> It's a 1 x 12 cab loaded with a Scumback H75-8HP.
> 
> Thanks for the kind comments guys:food-smiley-004:


Sounds great, but the way. Keep the videos coming.

As for the speakers, those have the tone I had in mind, but at over 150$ each, a pair would cost more than what I paid for my amp. I doubt my wife would understand. What would be a similar sounding, but cheaper speakers? What would your recommend for a Traynor YGL-3? I'm partial to the Sammi Sound speakers (supposedly similar to Celestion Greenbacks in tone) since I can have them for about 30$ apiece, but I'm open to suggestions. How about the Warehouse V-30s? Wouldn't those be a bit bright in a YGL-3, either as stock or in an extension cab?


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

NB-SK said:


> Sounds great, but the way. Keep the videos coming.
> 
> As for the speakers, those have the tone I had in mind,...


I believe the H75 is his take on the pre-Rola G12H.


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## djem (Sep 14, 2006)

Hey Kapo - I was going to post this reply in the Traynor & Garnet thread, but thought this thread may be more appropriate.



Kapo_Polenton said:


> Good points.. I am more of a marshall guy and i like that vintage fat crunch. just looking for something a little different than the plexi clone I built and maybe something with a tad more juice. This is why i was also considering the Orange Tiny terror. Lots of folks are trying to sell these Traynors now in the 400-500 range. Songbird has one for 495 in Toronto. I'm also not overly sold on the fender tone for my grind... i guess i just lean towards marshalls.


Yeah, it's discouraging to see the Traynors sell for so much when years ago people couldn't give them away. I've always been a big fan and have a nice collection of stock and modded Traynors.

As for the Marshall crunch, don't underestimate the Fender "The Twin". I bought one way back (14 years ago for $700 used, but great condition) because I needed to have an amp to gig with that had both a clean and overdrive channel. The amp has some serious crunch to it and is more of a MArshall than Fender in that department. It also has a very usable clean channel. Not a Vibrolux, but still pretty good. It also has a power conversion switch to knock out from 100W --> 25W. You can also 'blend' both channels and play them simultaneously.

Here's a thread from TGP that has a lot of good info on this amp:

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=275059 

Personally, I think that this is amp is probably the best sounding and value anyone can find for an all-tube 100W channel switching combo. I assume you are from the Ottawa area, check the one out at Songbird.

I have seen them for sale in the $600 - $800 range and they always move slow in the consignment shops. As I predicted in my thread at TGP, I see these amps price shooting up in the next few years because that's the way it always happens. Get 'em while you can.


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

Robert1950 said:


> I believe the H75 is his take on the pre-Rola G12H.


Well, if that's the case, them I'm probably getting a pair of Sammi Sound speakers. Their 50 watt guitar speakers are supposed to be close to the G12H 'greenback'. Just wonder, though:

What's better, 2x 100 watt speakers or 2X50 watt speakers for a 100 watt amp?


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## djem (Sep 14, 2006)

NB-SK said:


> Well, if that's the case, them I'm probably getting a pair of Sammi Sound speakers. Their 50 watt guitar speakers are supposed to be close to the G12H 'greenback'. Just wonder, though:
> 
> What's better, 2x 100 watt speakers or 2X50 watt speakers for a 100 watt amp?


For a 100W amp, I would go with the 200W cabinet (2x100W speakers)


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## Kapo_Polenton (Jun 20, 2007)

Which model of sammis are we talking about? I thought they were supposed to be closer to a g12h30.. if that is the case, i may have to check em out as i want two other greenback voiced speakers to join my reissues in an Avatar cab. Just can't get the g12h30's to sound how i like and the v30 warehouse speaker clones seem to be a tad anemic and brittle for me..

djem, I'll look into that Fender and see what it is all about.. after all, Marshall essentially ripped fender off! I just find getting up to 500$ for a Traynor seems a bit much at the moment.. I wonder what the next "vintage" jem will be? Maybe an epiphone valve junior?!! :bow:


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## djem (Sep 14, 2006)

Kapo_Polenton said:


> djem, I'll look into that Fender and see what it is all about.. after all, Marshall essentially ripped fender off! I just find getting up to 500$ for a Traynor seems a bit much at the moment.. I wonder what the next "vintage" jem will be? Maybe an epiphone valve junior?!! :bow:


You bet. I don't want to get too philosophical, but you really have to ask yourself, "what do I *really* need?" $500 for a Traynor may be ok for a collector, but too much in my books. I'm glad I picked up my Traynors when they were still affordable (between 1997-2001). Here's a list of the Traynor's I have and what I paid for them:

1) YBA-1 Bassmaster script logo tube rectified and modded to a Bassman style circuit. $350 at Songbird.
2) YBA-1 Bassmaster SS rectifier modded to a plexi circuit w/ OEI plexi output transformer. $250 at Songbird (spent over $200 on mods later on)
3) YBA-1 Bassmaster SS rectifier no mods. Dead stock. $200 private.
4) YSR-1 Custom Reverb 50W Head. $275 at Guitar Clinic
5) YBA-2B Bass Mate combo very early model script logo. It's the one that's like a cube. $200 private.
6) YBA-2B Bass Mate combo 70's model. $50 + $60 to get it working = $160 private.

I bought these right when people started expressing interest in them. I remember reading good words about these amps in Aspen Pittmans' tube amp books. Nowadays, the prices are nuts. I've seen a guy from the Traynor Yahoo Group sell his tube rectified and modded YBA-1 on eBay for $850 US not including shipping!!!

For sure check out that "The Twin". From a historical pov, after a 3 year lull of not making amps in the 80's (when Fender was still CBS), Fender put out it's first amp line as FMIC ~1988 and this amp was redesigned from the ground up. I believe, not 100% sure though, players like Jeff Beck, Robben Ford and Robert Cray were all players and endorsers for these amps back then. A few things I like about it is that it has bias ports at the back so you can buy a set of tubes and bias your amp without opening it up. It also has a parallel & series impedance selector so you can match it to virtually any cab.

I have had a love/hate relationship with my red-knob "The Twin" over the last 14 years. There were times when I wanted to sell it for no apparently good reason; just wanted to get rid of it and use the $$ to fund a a Mesa Boogie Mark IV purchase, but my band mates talked me out of it. So far, I've had it modded twice to fine tune it to my tastes and it sounds great. The only thin I may consider doing next is buying some of those Celestion clones (Classic 80W) because the originals are getting a little tired from being played hard for years now. It's taken me up to now to decide that I really like this amp and not to sell it. Last year I sold my Marshall JCM 800 2205 instead of "The Twin". In all honesty, "The Twin" sounded way better distorted and was WAY more versatile. One thing I have to mention is that my amp has been 100% reliable over the last 14 years: gigging and rehearsal.

If you do check out "The Twin" please report back. I'd be interested in your feedback.

Best of luck in your tone quest!

Doug


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I had a "The Twin" and it weighed about 90 lbs. If I remember from the original post, he was looking for something more portable then a large head. If that is the case, one of "The Twins" definitely isn't the solution. 

If you want an insanely loud amp, they definitely fit the bill. But they are a complete pain to transport. I definitely have never missed it since I sold it.


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## djem (Sep 14, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> I had a "The Twin" and it weighed about 90 lbs. If I remember from the original post, he was looking for something more portable then a large head. If that is the case, one of "The Twins" definitely isn't the solution.
> 
> If you want an insanely loud amp, they definitely fit the bill. But they are a complete pain to transport. I definitely have never missed it since I sold it.


You're right, they are heavy at approx. 80 lbs.


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

Kapo_Polenton said:


> Which model of sammis are we talking about? I thought they were supposed to be closer to a g12h30.. if that is the case, i may have to check em out as i want two other greenback voiced speakers to join my reissues in an Avatar cab. Just can't get the g12h30's to sound how i like and the v30 warehouse speaker clones seem to be a tad anemic and brittle for me..
> 
> djem, I'll look into that Fender and see what it is all about.. after all, Marshall essentially ripped fender off! I just find getting up to 500$ for a Traynor seems a bit much at the moment.. I wonder what the next "vintage" jem will be? Maybe an epiphone valve junior?!! :bow:



There's a clip of the ME-300B40 that someone posted somewhere on a forum. I can't seem to be able to find it right now. It took me about 15 minutes to find it last time.


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## Kapo_Polenton (Jun 20, 2007)

I found it on the gearpage... people were complaining it sounded bad, I thought it sounded killer! I found a place sammidirect that sells the 50 watters for 55$ or so and there is also a feller on the gearpage who is a rep in the US. I have also heard these in person in a pine cab and they sounded very warm. At the time i thought i liked the cutting sound of the g12h30's and other brighter speakersbetter and they still have a place, but I think my heart rests with smooth warm tones and none of the "sparkle" when it comes to my lead tone. I might pick some up and see how they mix with my reissue greenbacks in a 4 x 12. 

Sammi direct also sells some nice looking cabs.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2007)

Kapo_Polenton said:


> ...and the v30 warehouse speaker clones seem to be a tad anemic and brittle for me..


Did you get the C80 as well? I can't remember. If you want to try the C80 clone mine is just sitting in the box. I left the V30 in the Koch for now. I'm going to hang on to the original Koch Jensen because I'm still not decided. Let me know if you want to try out the C80.


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## Soupbone (May 17, 2007)

Kapo_Polenton said:


> Hey everybody, I've been noticing more "recording" tube amps that you can crank to take advantage of power amp distortion coming on to the market.. the Tiny Terror from Orange seems to be one that gets a lot of praise and a lot of attention. The clips sound pretty from what I can tell, what else have you come across in that price range that does this?. I think The peave windsor studio might be along the same lines but there are not many clips available for this one yet.. I'm not necessarily looking to buy one right now, but looking down the line at something that might be more portable then say a 50 watt head and an attenuator..
> 
> 
> Cheers.










The 5 reveiwed ranged below 600bucks and rated from 40 to 60 watts.
GP mag indicates the B-52/AT-112 and the ever popular Fender Hot Rod Deluxe as the best. But I would say all were good bang for the buck. 
The otherrrs were peavey Valve KING, Carvin Nomad and the Randal RG50TC.

After Reading my choice for looks anyways would have been the Randall but the sound cons indicate it would have to be tweaked with a different speaker and reverb tank.



It's been my experience the only way to know is to take the guitar you are going to use and test.
A lot depends on what your going to do with it.

An Amp with Less power can be less expensive and less trouble for sure, and you can always mic it.
Something like an Epiphone. 

Dont forget that any tube amp may sound quite different with something as simple as a high quality input tube.

For example I came across a NOS Sylvania 12ax7 I tried against a Mullard in my first gain stage, they sound different and IMO I liked the original Mullard a lot better but I keep the sylvania tube for a back up.

Music stores will just have the amps sitting there with the stock tubes which can be really crappy sounding. 
I found A Traynor 20 watter really came to life after swapping in a few better tubes while doing some work for a freind.

Like I said the only way to really know an amp is to try it out preferably first thing in the morning when the eardrums are relaxed and you can "hear" better.
I got to have lost of clean headroom and a master vol. Well thats the soup from my perspective.


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

Kapo_Polenton said:


> I found it on the gearpage... people were complaining it sounded bad, I thought it sounded killer! I found a place sammidirect that sells the 50 watters for 55$ or so and there is also a feller on the gearpage who is a rep in the US. I have also heard these in person in a pine cab and they sounded very warm. At the time i thought i liked the cutting sound of the g12h30's and other brighter speakersbetter and they still have a place, but I think my heart rests with smooth warm tones and none of the "sparkle" when it comes to my lead tone. I might pick some up and see how they mix with my reissue greenbacks in a 4 x 12.
> 
> Sammi direct also sells some nice looking cabs.


Yeah, that's the clip I was talking about. I think the recording sounds a bit hollow at the beginning, but near the end it clears up a bit and the speaker brightens up. It sounds good, but I'm not sure that's the speaker for me. I'm really interested in the Celestion G12H65/Eminence Tonker. WGS is coming out with their version of the G12H65 for about 50$ each. I think I'll get myself a pair of the Sammi Sound speakers and maybe a pair of those when they come out. I'll build a cab for the Sammis and install the G12s in my combo. I'm still wondering if I should bother getting a pair of the WGS speakers while they are still cheap.


PS. Just talked to someone at Traynor, told me I'd better stick with something that can handle about double the power of the amp if I want to use distortion (so, 2X80 watts). He mentioned the Celestion 7080, which is what the new Traynor cabs have in them if I'm not mistaken. If I get the Sammi's I'll get the 100 watt ones. Starting to wonder if I should get a pair of the WGS Classic Leads.


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## Kapo_Polenton (Jun 20, 2007)

What are the g12h65's supposed to sound like? I have heard many people excited about the return of these and the clones but i am not sure what tone range they cover? 

Iaresee, I only got the v30's. Thanks for the offer to try out the C80 but that speaker never really appealed to me much.. I guess that no matter how we try to deviate, our eas like a certain tone. I am starting to think my ear is geared towards "blanket over speaker" tone lol.Terrible for cleans, but the g12T (not 75's) that came stock with my valvestate i thought were always quite good. I also tried a marshall cab with gt-75's at one point and found them pretty sweet too. Everyone says those speakers are harsh but they seemed ok to me. Maybe i've got no ear. :food-smiley-004:


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2007)

Kapo_Polenton said:


> Maybe i've got no ear. :food-smiley-004:


Nah. It's just 15+ years of playing rock music taking their toll on you. :smile:


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