# What's like a J-45 but without the J-45 price tag?



## Guest (Sep 11, 2012)

Renting a J-45 while I decide if I'm going to try and repair that Guild's bum pickup or not and...I'm loving it. So mellow and warm. It's got a snazzy burst finish too.

New these things aren't cheap. Not really in my range right now.

And my usual channels aren't really turning up any used at a price I could manage.

Is there a comparable guitar from another company I could check out that's in the sub-$1500 range?


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Blueridge makes a fairly well respected copy that's pretty dead on.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

I agree with Keto but you might also want to check out the Recording King RAJ series. Same scale, sunburst , the whole shebang for a lot less money. But I do recommend if you really want a J-45 then buy one. There are lots of deals out there on used ones. Good luck.
Recording King - RAJ-27



P.S. I completely forgot about the Gibson WM (Working Man) Series. Exact same guitar as the J-45 but with less bling. Can usually be found for around 1k or so.
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...bson-WM-45-Acoustic-Guitar-W0QQAdIdZ412590647


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

If you're patient, look for a Gibson WM-45. It IS a J-45 without the high price. Natural finish and no fancy appointments but otherwise identical sound and buid quality. They sell used for under a grand, which is still a mystery, but great for bargain hunters.



sub-$1K


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2012)

Intrepid said:


> But I do recommend if you really want a J-45 then buy one. There are lots of deals out there on used ones. Good luck.


I'm considering buying this rental out from L&M but I think they're asking a bit much for a rental: $1600.

Where can I find used ones? Preferably local to Ottawa? I've been burned too many times on used acoustics over the 'Net I'm not willing to do it again this time around. I want to touch it first.





> P.S. I completely forgot about the Gibson WM (Working Man) Series. Exact same guitar as the J-45 but with less bling. Can usually be found for around 1k or so.
> Mint Gibson WM-45 Acoustic Guitar - City of Toronto Musical Instruments For Sale - Kijiji City of Toronto Canada.


No kidding? Less bling than a J-45? This one, aside from the burst paint job, seems pretty unadorned to me. Dot inlays. No binding on the neck. I'll definitely check the Working Man out though. Thanks!


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2012)

StevieMac said:


> If you're patient, look for a Gibson WM-45.


Oh, I am. Thanks guys!


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Heres one at Bluegrassconnection.ca, about 1 hour south of Ottawa. Probably a bit expensive (and you'd have to pay tax):

1996 Gibson J-45 Banner Headstock


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

My experience is that no two J45 sound alike (especially recent years), sometimes not even close. Gibson are probably the most inconsistent manufacturer, IMO. Make sure you try before you buy.

Recently went shopping with a buddy and tried 6 different J45 back to back to back and was wowed by the difference in build, workmanship, play-ability and tone. The right one can be heavenly


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## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

Here's a used Gibson in the price range...not a J 45 but maybe a good substitute: Capsule Music


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2012)

ronmac said:


> My experience is that no two J45 sound alike (especially recent years), sometimes not even close. Gibson are probably the most inconsistent manufacturer, IMO. Make sure you try before you buy.


Good to know. This is reinforcing my desire to not buy mail order this time.



> Recently went shopping with a buddy and tried 6 different J45 back to back to back and was wowed by the difference in build, workmanship, play-ability and tone. The right one can be heavenly


However, this is making me think of all kinds of bad ways to try and keep this one! I like how it plays and sounds!


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

iaresee said:


> Good to know. This is reinforcing my desire to not buy mail order this time.
> 
> 
> 
> However, this is making me think of all kinds of bad ways to try and keep this one! I like how it plays and sounds!


I have bought and sold far to many guitars, some good some not so good, if you have found one that fits every thing you want, sound, looks feels and plays great buy it, cause if you don't your going to kick yourself in the ass a hundred times over for walking away. I know I've had many a sore ass.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

washburned said:


> Here's a used Gibson in the price range...not a J 45 but maybe a good substitute: Capsule Music


Nice gesture but not a close substitute IMO. Use of laminates (backs/sides & sometimes tops) at that time, plus different woods (rosewood vs mahogony), and different bracing would make it a different beast altogether. Post mid-60's J-45s were built quite differently as well and do not sound or play like the earlier (or post 1990 or so) ones. 



> However, this is making me think of all kinds of bad ways to try and keep this one! I like how it plays and sounds!


Make them an offer then if you like it. I agree, $1600 for a rental seems high but if it's in decent shape and plays/sounds good, it's not far off the mark valuewise. The taxation vs private sale sucks of course but that's how things work. Alternatively, it might be worth a drive to check out that banner J-45 someone else linked to. The owner there is GREAT to deal with and would probably cut you a cash deal. FWIW, on paper at least, the banner J-45s are also worth more...


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## Marshall LX58 (May 17, 2012)

I am days away from pulling the trigger on a j-45 from our rental department, it is hard to sum up why they sound so different. but when you find the right one it is amazing! I went to Bozman Montana June of 09, work sent me down for 4 days. and after seeing how hands on EVERYTHING is it is easy to see why they all sound like there own guitar. It took me 3 years and a lot of j-45s to find "mine", buying from rentals is good because the guitar opens up, and you can still finance them too. October has a deal for finance on Gibson guitars. I tryed to post pics from my trip but I suck at computer stuff. I good guitar will last a life time and what is $1600 over 30-50 years. I have had my sg standard for 7 years and I payed 2173.xx after tax last time i worked it out(a few yars a go) it cost me .37 a day/ per use. not including all the gigs and lessons I gave so I am probably in the - now . Just a thought. good luck!


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2012)

StevieMac said:


> Make them an offer then if you like it. I agree, $1600 for a rental seems high but if it's in decent shape and plays/sounds good, it's not far off the mark valuewise. The taxation vs private sale sucks of course but that's how things work. Alternatively, it might be worth a drive to check out that banner J-45 someone else linked to. The owner there is GREAT to deal with and would probably cut you a cash deal. FWIW, on paper at least, the banner J-45s are also worth more...


I will probably make them an offer. It does need a setup. There's some rattle on the cowboy chord frets on the D and G strings. But it sounds just right to me. Had it out last night to a writing session and I got to sit in front of it while my friend played it and it only reinforced how much I like it.


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2012)

bagpipe said:


> Heres one at Bluegrassconnection.ca, about 1 hour south of Ottawa. Probably a bit expensive (and you'd have to pay tax):
> 
> 1996 Gibson J-45 Banner Headstock


Unless he was going to move on that quite a bit...we'll have to see. I'm going to the Class-Axe sale on Saturday to see what they have.


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2012)

Marshall LX58 said:


> October has a deal for finance on Gibson guitars.


Long and McQuade's is doing this in October? Or do you work some place else?


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Unless he was going to move on that quite a bit...we'll have to see. I'm going to the Class-Axe sale on Saturday to see what they have.


He will do a cash deal but do not expect a receipt of any sort .


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## Guest (Sep 12, 2012)

rollingdam said:


> He will do a cash deal but do not expect a receipt of any sort .


Yea, was he one of the shady local dealers that people kind of semi-avoid unless he's really got what they want?

I sold my old Guild to a guy in Rockland...piano repair man who was getting in to dealing guitars. I should drop him a note, see what he's got...


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## Marshall LX58 (May 17, 2012)

Yes I work for L&M. And I did get myJ-45 yesterday!!! Best guitar I have played (for me), the sound is just what had in my head. and the neck is the same shape and profile as my SG, feels like home. I almost bought an advanced jumbo or an older Sheryl Crow but this J-45 still came back to me. I did some trades and sold some other gear to get it. Mine is made in Jan of 2009 and it started to get lacquer cracks and some paint is coming of the neck where your thumb goes on the first fret (it has been rented a lot!!!!) The wait was worth it. Good luck and have fun finding your #1.


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

Marshall LX58 said:


> Yes I work for L&M. And I did get myJ-45 yesterday!!! Best guitar I have played (for me), the sound is just what had in my head. and the neck is the same shape and profile as my SG, feels like home. I almost bought an advanced jumbo or an older Sheryl Crow but this J-45 still came back to me. I did some trades and sold some other gear to get it. Mine is made in Jan of 2009 and it started to get lacquer cracks and some paint is coming of the neck where your thumb goes on the first fret (it has been rented a lot!!!!) The wait was worth it. Good luck and have fun finding your #1.


Congratulations! You did the right thing. Now, you understand that pics will be expected. Otherwise we'll just assume you really bought a Hondo.


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## Marshall LX58 (May 17, 2012)

I need to find out hoe to post pics, any help would be great. I would like to share some pics from the factory too. I do not get the hole URL thing, My pics are in windows. Thanks


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## Marshall LX58 (May 17, 2012)

pattste said:


> Congratulations! You did the right thing. Now, you understand that pics will be expected. Otherwise we'll just assume you really bought a Hondo.


I sent you some pics, and there is another member that is going to help me post them. Thanks man!


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Yea, was he one of the shady local dealers that people kind of semi-avoid unless he's really got what they want?
> 
> I sold my old Guild to a guy in Rockland...piano repair man who was getting in to dealing guitars. I should drop him a note, see what he's got...


Some people swear by him...other swear at him....


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

Marshall LX58 said:


> I sent you some pics, and there is another member that is going to help me post them. Thanks man!


Still no pics.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Okay, so whats the story with renting out high end acoustics from L&M? I didn't even know that it was an option. You can rent anything from them? Or this is a set list of rental instruments that L&M set aside (in every store?) to rent out, and potentially sell ?



iaresee said:


> Renting a J-45 while





iaresee said:


> I'm considering buying this rental out from L&M but I think they're asking a bit much for a rental: $1600.





Marshall LX58 said:


> I am days away from pulling the trigger on a j-45 from our rental department


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

bagpipe said:


> Okay, so whats the story with renting out high end acoustics from L&M? I didn't even know that it was an option. You can rent anything from them? Or this is a set list of rental instruments that L&M set aside (in every store?) to rent out, and potentially sell ?


Not anything. There's a set list of higher end stuff and they don't promise to have it in.

Here are the rates and selection, but not always available: http://www.long-mcquade.com/imgs/sep12-guitar rental rates.pdf -- when I went in there were no Larivees. Just Gibsons: the lone J-45 I took, a couple of jumbos and a Dove IIRC.

Everything L&M rents has a sale price on it. Everything. If you like a rental piece you can usually buy it. How great a deal that is, depends on how old the piece is or how worn it happens to be. Also: if you keep a rental long enough, eventually you own. They depreciate it as you rent it and sooner or later the tap turns off. It's a terrible interest rate though. IIRC, worse than buying on their store credit (which IIRC is like 19% or something). Rental depreciation is like 50% or something like that. So if it's an item valued at $1000 when you rent it and you're paying $100/month in rental, you'll own it after 20 months of renting.


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## chimo (Mar 29, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Not anything. There's a set list of higher end stuff and they don't promise to have it in.
> 
> Here are the rates and selection, but not always available: http://www.long-mcquade.com/imgs/sep12-guitar%20rental%20rates.pdf -- when I went in there were no Larivees. Just Gibsons: the lone J-45 I took, a couple of jumbos and a Dove IIRC.
> 
> Everything L&M rents has a sale price on it. Everything. If you like a rental piece you can usually buy it. How great a deal that is, depends on how old the piece is or how worn it happens to be. Also: if you keep a rental long enough, eventually you own. They depreciate it as you rent it and sooner or later the tap turns off. It's a terrible interest rate though. IIRC, worse than buying on their store credit (which IIRC is like 19% or something). Rental depreciation is like 50% or something like that. So if it's an item valued at $1000 when you rent it and you're paying $100/month in rental, you'll own it after 20 months of renting.


Almost. It doesn't matter how tatty it is after being rented. It matters how many contracts it's been rented. The more contracts, the more depreciation in the system. $1600 is typical, borderline good value for the 45s in our software. I think they're currently $2295 new? Totally wrong on all the finance stuff though.

If you want the item, finance it. Most terms are 12 months and have an interest rate of 1.42% per month. On paper it's 17% but it's interest on the balance only, not the term (as you pay it off you pay less and less interest). On a 12 month term total interest works out to less than 10%. 

If you want to rent it and then purchase it, in the first year you'll receive 60% of your rent credit back towards the guitar. In further years you will receive 50% back to a maximum of 90% of the purchase price. You always have the option to finance the balance as well. Long term renting doesn't generally make sense unless you're in a position of claiming it back either through work or at tax time. If you are claiming music as an income you can generally write off 100% of a rental while still sitting on the credit back from L&M. Rent it for twoish years, let the Tax Man pay you back and then buy buy it at 10% of the original price - then write off 20% of that (as a claiming musician you can write off 100% of a rental but only 20% of a purchase).


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## chimo (Mar 29, 2006)

Oh and one more point. 

You will *never* automatically own a rental if it is a standard rental. It does not become yours at 20, 30 or 100 months. You can initiate the buy or you can be advised to buy by an employee but if you decide to let your rental run on, it will never simply default to your ownership.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

chimo said:


> Oh and one more point.
> 
> You will never automatically own a rental if it is a standard rental. It does not become yours at 20, 30 or 100 months. You can initiate the buy or you can be advised to buy by an employee but if you decide to let your rental run on, it will never simply default to your ownership.


That's cool. Thanks.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2012)

chimo said:


> On paper it's 17% but it's interest on the balance only, not the term (as you pay it off you pay less and less interest). On a 12 month term total interest works out to less than 10%.


Point of note on this: for comparison shopping on credit vehicles you always use the yearly rate (or monthly, but yearly is usually easier to find). All credit vehicles will have a lower effective rate once you make the payments on the balance, but the yearly rate is what lets you comparison shop. 17% is at the high end. You'll find most credit cards in the 14-16% range. But a line of credit would be <10% these days.


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