# Help. Anyone use a volume pedal as expression pedal.



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

I have a space on my pedal board for a foot-controller. 4"x9".

I have been looking at expression pedals. There seems to be a better selection of volume pedals. 

I am getting lazy. The research is taking a while.

I have more money than brains, and would like to simply purchase the best thing that will fit on the board; although I am capable of switching a couple of wires or even replacing a potentiometer, if necessary. (The pot may be sprayed with WD40 once or twice in its lifetime. LOL.).

Thanks for any input.


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## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

i just picked up a line 6 EX-1 expression pedal to use with my filterpro. it measures about 3 1/8" x 7 7/8" but my research taught me that the line6 expression pedals are wired a little different than some other pedals and use a t/s as opposed to a t/r/s cable...
not sure what you are looking to control with the pedal. might be a good idea to determine the requirements of the unit you are looking to use it with.

the WD stands for water displacement iirc 

cheers


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

cbg1 said:


> i just picked up a line 6 EX-1 expression pedal to use with my filterpro. it measures about 3 1/8" x 7 7/8" but my research taught me that the line6 expression pedals are wired a little different than some other pedals and use a t/s as opposed to a t/r/s cable...
> not sure what you are looking to control with the pedal. might be a good idea to determine the requirements of the unit you are looking to use it with.
> 
> the WD stands for water displacement iirc
> ...


TC Helicon VoiceLive 3. The manufacturer answered promptly. Any "Roland" style is correct. "Yamaha" style is wrong, but can be switched.

How would you rate the build quality and feel of the Line .6.

Thanks.


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## cbg1 (Mar 27, 2012)

It is made of a plastic/nylon material fairly light weight but well constructed.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

"Expression" control can be done in multiple ways. For example, Line 6 simply uses a 10k variable resistance to ground. My old blue rackmount MXR Digital Delay uses 50k. Some other pedals/devices may use a voltage-divider arrangement, whereby a specific voltage is provided to the expression pedal via the tip plug connection, and divided down by the pot, with the resulting variable voltage fed back to the pedal via the ring plug connection. In still other cases, the assumption is that the voltage to be divided down is coming from a 9V battery inside the expression pedal.

The upshot is that you need to know what system your own pedals use, before committing to a particular expression pedal. After that, it becomes largely a matter of the relative feel and taper of the expression pedal, such that it permits you to BE "expressive".


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

The Boss has a 10K pot. The other pot sets the minimum volume.










There seem to be countless expression pedals out there.

How about the Boss EV-30? I would recommend that or the Dunlop DVP-3.

I have these volume pedals:

Boss FV-500H. It's a bit larger than you have space on your board. You can get a replacement concentric pot for these from Roland.

Dunlop DVP-1. I really like this pedal and I was recommending it to everyone, but I've read that some people manage to break the steel band, although it can be replaced. The newer DVP-3 and the mini DVP-4 have expression outputs. They don't have a minimum volume, but with the VoiceLive 3, like a lot of other hardware, you can set the minimum and maximum values in the menus.

Ernie Ball. They don't seem to have an expression pedal version.

I also have a Morley MIDI expression pedal. MIDI is another option you could try, but I find the tracking on MIDI doesn't always work well with effects like wah.

I have a plastic M-Audio expression pedal, somewhere. It seems to work fine.

EV-30









DVP-3









FV-500H









Morley EP-1


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Hammerhands said:


> How about the Boss EV-30? I would recommend that or the Dunlop DVP-3.
> 
> I have a plastic M-Audio expression pedal, somewhere. It seems to work fine.


Thanks for all the info. Sure helps. 

The Boss EV-30 and Dunlop DVP-3 are contenders. The M-Audio EXP is "known to work" says TC Helicon. Seems cheap though, will it hold up?

They also provided tech and mod info within hours of my email. Good service.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2017)

MHammer thanks for the post. Very informative.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It's what I'm here for, bro'.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

I had a DVP1 and really liked it. The only problem was that because it was built like a tank, it weighed as much as a tank. And it was massive! But being able to adjust the rocker tension to my preferences was really nice.

I plan on getting the smaller DVP3 in the near future as there is room for it on my board and the DVP4 (mini) is actually taller and won't fit in my case. I have confirmed with Dunlop that the volume and expression work at the same time, so my plan is to use a true-bypass looper to turn the Volume part on/off, and then have various patches on my delay pedal that either use expression or ignore it, effectively getting two uses out of one pedal.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Real-time control over pedals is something that many players, myself included have always longed for and tinkered with. I used to own an EHX Hotfoot, when they came out in the late 70's.




They were nifty units that would let you turn a pot with your foot. The trouble was that they had so much torque that you could easily flip a smaller pedal over if it wasn't secured or heavy enough. As well, the adjustment to tighten the end of the flexible shaft around the pot shaft was so large that you were sort of constrained in what pedals you could use it with. You will note that the pot controlled in the video is on the _outside_. EHX's primary planned use for the Hotfoot when it came out was really tinkering with the delay time on a Memory Man.

More recently, Tone in Progress came out with (and eventually shelved) their Third Hand controller, shown below. It was essentially a more compact version of the Hotfoot, with the cable mounted in a fashion that avoided the pedal-flipping and also permitted attachment in cramped quarters.





There are other even simpler means of playing the knobs with your feet, though without as much fine control. The Oknob and Vknob are examples of this.





Where the expression pedal is simply intended to provide a variable resistance to ground, one can simply use a photocell (LDR). When I learned that the Line 6 standard was simply a 0-10k resistance, I rummaged through my parts drawer, pulled out a photocell, affixed it to the surface of my guitar, between the bridge and volume pot, and covered/uncovered it with my pinky to "work" the Whammy pedal patch on my M5. In essence, I turned my pinky finger into a Morley pedal (which uses blockage of light to a photocell as their means of control.

Synth players have, for years, been using "breath controllers" to translate breath intensity into a control voltage. I have a little Yamaha CS-01 synth with a breath-controller input, like this one.





Finally, there are devices called _force-sensing resistors_, that could be easily affixed to the top of a guitar, and used to control many pedals via their expression-pedal input; assuming the pedal uses a variable resistance to ground, as in the Line 6 standard. They come in a variety of shapes, sizes, and resistance values.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

troyhead said:


> I had a DVP1 and really liked it. The only problem was that because it was built like a tank, it weighed as much as a tank. And it was massive! But being able to adjust the rocker tension to my preferences was really nice.
> 
> I plan on getting the smaller DVP3 in the near future as there is room for it on my board and the DVP4 (mini) is actually taller and won't fit in my case. I have confirmed with Dunlop that the volume and expression work at the same time, so my plan is to use a true-bypass looper to turn the Volume part on/off, and then have various patches on my delay pedal that either use expression or ignore it, effectively getting two uses out of one pedal.


Brought this thread back to life because it addresses my next quest which is a volume/ expression pedal all in one. I want a pedal to use the the expression feature on my TC Flashback x4 and to control my guitar volume. The Dunlop DVP 3or4 seems like it would fill that void I have in my pedal board. 

Has there been advances in this type of pedal since 2017, any other company putting out a better version?


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

@MarkM I did eventually get the DVP3 and a Boss ES-5 to use with it. It actually worked pretty well, using the ES-5 to control whether the pedal was used for volume or sending expression changes (via MIDI CC).

Unfortunately, I spent more time programming than playing, so I ditched the ES-5 and the DVP3.

I’ve tried a few different things, one being using an expression pedal with a Strymon Riverside to control the gain or volume, and other programmable pedals that can turn off expression by patch. I did this by using a Boss EV-30 with dual expression outputs.

I found most of the time I was using the volume pre-gain to control the amount of dirt. So instead of using a volume pedal, I decided to work on using the volume on the guitar itself instead, and either using guitars that work well with the guitar volume rolled back or adjusting the electronics so that they do work well (like adding a treble bleed). So I’ve pretty much ditched the volume pedal idea with a boost post-gain for extra volume, and just use expression.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

@troyhead I have been using the volume and tone controls on the guitar for 40+ years, I have arthritis in my mitts and they don't work as well at that anymore! I have had a Dunlop wah since I had a mullet, strat and tube amps and was 20. I want to try it, love an expression pedal.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Player99 said:


> MHammer thanks for the post. Very informative.


My old account before the crazy moderator hijacked the forum and deleted my account.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

@player99 
I don't know what you mean?


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

troyhead said:


> @MarkM I did eventually get the DVP3 and a Boss ES-5 to use with it. It actually worked pretty well, using the ES-5 to control whether the pedal was used for volume or sending expression changes (via MIDI CC).
> 
> Unfortunately, I spent more time programming than playing, so I ditched the ES-5 and the DVP3.
> 
> ...


s
I am leaning towards the Boss EV-30, I am sure the Dunlop DVP3 would work too.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

I used a pedal steel volume pedal -- built to last forever and smooth smooth smooth.









Goodrich Sound volume pedals and electronics since 1965


Goodrich Sound volume pedals and electronics since 1965. Over the years, their performance has become legendary. Goodrich Sound




goodrichsoundcompany.com


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

MarkM said:


> @player99
> I don't know what you mean?


My memory is not perfect, but this is the jist: A couple of years ago the guy that started this forum sold it to a corporation. There was a nutbar that asked to be allowed to remove expired for sale ads or something. The old owner gave him permission and the low level moderator status to do that small task. The nutbar then went to the new owners and got super moderator status, and began a tyrannical schizophrenic rampage banning people arbitrarily and deleting threads and posts as he saw fit. The old owner was busy with his new forum, and the new owners were completely delinquent. So the Nazi moderator had free run and went crazy. I finally got the old owner to check it out and he put a stop to it. Before he stopped him the Little Dictator deleted me as a user. My old threads and posts are still there, but not connected to my new account. There were others that got deleted as well. My join date is Sept. 4 2019, so it all happened a week or two before that. I have been here since the early 2000's.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Your old post says you joined in 1969. Those were the early days of the forum.


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