# Are individual Boss Pedals better than the same effects on a multi-effect?



## Gilles (Jan 9, 2008)

Do the individual Boss pedals sound better than the same effect on a Boss multi-pedal thingy (ie. Boss ME-50)? 

I don't see why they couldn't be, but that doesn't mean they are.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Individually, they are every bit as good. The major difference is that as separate pedals, you can sequence them whichever way you like and insert whatever you want between them. Much harder to do that with a multi-fx.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

mhammer is right that you get to sequence individual pedals however you like, but the me-50 has some serious advantages; Price and convenience. One adapter, not 12 is a huge headache saver if you like having multiple effects (I'm down to 2 or 3 pedals, so it's moot for me.)

Also, Boss pretty much got the order right. :smile:

Matt


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2009)

Ahh the ME-50. A solid backup in a world of crazy wires. I've always like the ME-50. I started liking it even more after I watched Don Ross rock the hell out of one at a clinic he did at Carlton U. last year.


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## Andy (Sep 23, 2007)

One thing I've rarely seen mentioned is the advantage of digital multi-fx versus individual digital stompboxes in terms of signal degradation. I can't imagine that the A/D/A conversion is that great in a $100 pedal -- once you get half a dozen of them in sequence, would it not have a significant effect on your tone? Maybe someone more knowledgeable could chip in.

Also, the one downfall of multi-fx units IMO is the accessibility to each effect's parameters and such without excessive dicking around. Boss' stuff is generally pretty decent in this regard, but I tried a DigiTech unit that was virtually unusable.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2009)

The downside to the digital multi-FX units is that as you layer more effects, more work, on the DSP the algorithms are lightened to preserve processing power. The introduction of dual DSP units has helped that immensely but it's the kind of thing that should be paid careful attention to when shopping. If you're going to run delay + chorus + wah + overdrive + amp sim + cab sim ++++ -- you should dial up a custom patch in the store when shopping to make sure the entire thing doesn't degrade into an 8-bit disaster. 

So while you do save a lot of unnecessary conversions going multi-fx digital instead of multiple single digital boxes what you might be sacrificing is DSP power for each individual algorithm.


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

*+1 Individual Pedals For Me!*

I don't think anyone has mentioned yet that some of us feel that dialing in the right sounds with individual pedals is way better versus a ME unit. You want to quickly look at your flanger settings and adjust it live during a song? No problem! Trim up your delay repeats or mix? Easily done without having to cycle through a few screens and menus. Plus for me it's a whole mental thing. I can easily see and completely understand all my FX and settings. All sitting there in a row it's linear and easy to understand, there is no learning curve and you don't feel the slightest bit overwhelmed with all the functions and settings of a ME pedal. Add the fact that I had a Digitech GNX3 and I literally screwed with it for a year and gave up trying to dial in the sounds I wanted. In my opinion with a tube amp especially, individual pedals sound better. Especially and more importantly stay away from any amp modeling when playing through a tube amp. Just my .02 based on my experience. I don't believe the ME series of boss pedals has amp modeling though.


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## salv (Sep 24, 2008)

keithb7 said:


> I don't think anyone has mentioned yet that some of us feel that dialing in the right sounds with individual pedals is way better versus a ME unit. You want to quickly look at your flanger settings and adjust it live during a song? No problem! Trim up your delay repeats or mix? Easily done without having to cycle through a few screens and menus. Plus for me it's a whole mental thing. I can easily see and completely understand all my FX and settings. All sitting there in a row it's linear and easy to understand, there is no learning curve and you don't feel the slightest bit overwhelmed with all the functions and settings of a ME pedal. Add the fact that I had a Digitech GNX3 and I literally screwed with it for a year and gave up trying to dial in the sounds I wanted. In my opinion with a tube amp especially, individual pedals sound better. Especially and more importantly stay away from any amp modeling when playing through a tube amp. Just my .02 based on my experience. I don't believe the ME series of boss pedals has amp modeling though.


I've owned an ME-50 and actually looking to pick up a used ME-50 or a new ME-70 for the house and keeping the simple setup I have for gigging. I own a Line 6 POD X3 which I use solely for recording. Thing is, the ME-50 sounded great with my tube amp what sounds bad on most multieffects boards are the amp models (there is no amp modeling). Very much worth the money in my opinion.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Some very good points made here by the various posters.


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## Alien8 (Jan 8, 2009)

When I went from Line 6 to tube, I picked up an ME-50. It was perfect for me at the time, since I did a lot of traveling, and required an apartment volume set-up, which the ME-50 provided via headphones. It was a good pedal, easy to use; until I heard what a real tube screamer did to the tube amp, compared to the model in the ME-50. Ever since then, I've been cautious of what "digital" pedals I buy, and have sworn off the digital multi FX units, especially for driven sounds, and filters.

You can never find the sweet glitches that occur between two individual FX boxes and the amp in a digital multi FX set-up, which is what many have said above. When you hit a digital multi FX glitch, it usually sounds like something broke, or is feeding back in a unpleasant manner. 

To stay specific to the question; it depends on what era of BOSS you are talking about, and what sounds you want. Brand new, no, get an FX unit and love it, and don't skimp, save for the big one.


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## Gilles (Jan 9, 2008)

I currently have a Boss BD-2 Blues Driver and a Vox Wah pedal, are those pedals analog or digital?


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2009)

Gilles said:


> I currently have a Boss BD-2 Blues Driver and a Vox Wah pedal, are those pedals analog or digital?


Analog. And because I have to type at least 10 characters I'll say it again: analog. I like that name. Analog. (Bonus points if you get the pop culture joke)


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## dino (Jan 6, 2009)

*Gt 8*

I know alot of people think that the individual boss pedals have all kinds of special parts in them but I was assured by boss that the same chips that are in these pedals are in the GT 8. Once you learn to use the GT 8 , setting up the order you place your effects becomes easy. I was intimidated by the GT 8 when I first received it as a present and said there is no way I am giving up my individual boss pedals for this but it happened. There is just too many advantages this GT 8 has over them. One main one is it is compact and easy to carry around and set up. 

My pref is the board over individual pedals .. just think I own every pedal ever made in one board.

Dino


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## nicmat42 (Dec 31, 2008)

Andy said:


> One thing I've rarely seen mentioned is the advantage of digital multi-fx versus individual digital stompboxes in terms of signal degradation. I can't imagine that the A/D/A conversion is that great in a $100 pedal -- once you get half a dozen of them in sequence, would it not have a significant effect on your tone? Maybe someone more knowledgeable could chip in.
> 
> Also, the one downfall of multi-fx units IMO is the accessibility to each effect's parameters and such without excessive dicking around. Boss' stuff is generally pretty decent in this regard, but I tried a DigiTech unit that was virtually unusable.


Yes when you run alot of stompboxes in front of your amp you get alot of signal degradation. I run about a dozen pedals in my setup, and when I first ran them all in front of my Vox AC30 the sound was terrible. BUT, when I ran all of my time based/modulation effects through the loop, it was like I was plugging directly into the amp.
Effects Loop=Key
I personally am not that much of a multi-fx kind of guy. Like other have said, it's alot more convenient for tweaking stompboxes and all that. I also feel like some digital effects lack alot of character. But that's just me!


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2009)

dino said:


> I know alot of people think that the individual boss pedals have all kinds of special parts in them but I was assured by boss that the same chips that are in these pedals are in the GT 8. Once you learn to use the GT 8 , setting up the order you place your effects becomes easy. I was intimidated by the GT 8 when I first received it as a present and said there is no way I am giving up my individual boss pedals for this but it happened. There is just too many advantages this GT 8 has over them. One main one is it is compact and easy to carry around and set up.
> 
> My pref is the board over individual pedals .. just think I own every pedal ever made in one board.
> 
> Dino


True, the same DSP chip technology is leveraged across anything Boss produces with the COSM logo on it, but see my post on the previous page: as you layer on more effects in a multi-fx unit the bit rate for each effect is reduced so the DSP can keep up with the demand and you don't get noticeable signal delays. The newer Boss units ship with multiple DSPs and there's some balancing that goes on to keep things at the highest internal bit rates possible, but you still take a hit when you really layer on the FX. IIRC an entire DSP gets dedicated to amp-cab-mic modeling if you use it. Everything else (chorus, stomp box modeling, delay, etc.) gets done in the other DSP.

I'm sure the degradation is minimal in the newest units (GT-10 for example). But in the old GT-6 I used to gig it was very, very apparent when you used multiple FX that the unit was dithering things down to handle the processing load on the DSP.

If you use separate pedals you know 100% of the DSP is being dedicated to just that effect.


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## Alien8 (Jan 8, 2009)

> I know alot of people think that the individual boss pedals have all kinds of special parts in them but I was assured by boss that the same chips that are in these pedals are in the GT 8.


No doubt, however, plugging a GT-8 set to mimic a tube screamer, compared to plugging in an actual tube screamer are really quite different.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

dino said:


> I know alot of people think that the individual boss pedals have all kinds of special parts in them but I was assured by boss that *the same chips that are in these pedals are in the GT 8*. Once you learn to use the GT 8 , setting up the order you place your effects becomes easy. I was intimidated by the GT 8 when I first received it as a present and said there is no way I am giving up my individual boss pedals for this but it happened. There is just too many advantages this GT 8 has over them. One main one is it is compact and easy to carry around and set up.
> 
> My pref is the board over individual pedals .. just think I own every pedal ever made in one board.
> 
> Dino


I find the highlighted part of the response confusing. How can an all digital processor (and that's what COSM is, except for the input and output sides) have "the same chips" as pedals that rely on op-amps and FETs? Does it do what the PH-3 or DD-6 or the Deluxe Reverb pedal do? Yeah probably, because those pedals ARE already digital and already use "the same chips". Does it do what a BD-2 or DS-1 do? Well, I suppose it can try to, but what it is trying to do is model the behaviour of the analog circuits in those two pedals. Although it is entirely within the realm of possibility that it can close to sounding like the analog equivalent, one cannot say that a DSP-based multi-FX "uses the same chips" as an op-amp, FET, and diode-based circuit, any more than you can say a whole wheat and tofu cheese pizza uses "the same ingredients" as what you buy from Pizza Pizza or Domino's. I don't think that whomever you spoke to was stupid or trying to blow you off. But I do think that their reply was not well thought-out or explained. Parts of it are simply impossible.


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

This may be a dumb question, but I've never had a multi-effects unit. Are they pretty much all digital?


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## Frogee (Feb 17, 2009)

In this set up i use the Gt8 for modeling effects ''Vibe -Tremolo-rotary ,Delay Reverb etc... in the effect _loop of my amp..
I dont like the amp simulator and disto & overd. of the Gt8 so i m using standard pedals to drive the preamp of my Traynor..

There s a manuel mode on the Gt8 to operate effects just like individual pedals..


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

"This may be a dumb question, but I've never had a multi-effects unit. Are they pretty much all digital? "

Not all of them, but increasingly so.

Quite frankly, there is no good reason to steer clear of digital for virtually every effect category outside of distortion. They do an *excellent* job. And, depending upon your tastes and needs, they can do a pretty good job when it comes to distortion too, though admittedly the processing demands are greatest when it comes to distortion, and pose the biggest challenge.

Quality tends to decline when a single DSP engine is called upon to handle all tasks, but more and more these days, multi-fx are harnessing several DSP engines to work together. Under those circumstances, the quality can be quite high.

The world of individual pedals vs multi-fx is a bit like the old schism between PC and Mac users. Those folks who grew up on Z-80 and 8086-based machines in the 70's and 80's grew very attached to the way in which the PC would require you to specify every little step, but at the same time allow you the freedom and flexibility that being able to specify provided. Early Mac users just wanted to skip all the single-line editting and get straight to *doing* stuff, which to them felt more like freedom from drudgery - a different sort of freedom. You had a choice between having more fine control over details, but at the cost of having to attend to details all the time, vs having all the details taken care of for you. The world of single pedals vs multi-fx is a bit like that. Me, I'm a PC person, so even though there is an understandable benefit to being able to simple call up patch #68 just like that, I always find there is something that I can't quite do the way I want on a multi-fx....at least not without devoting hours and hours to mastering software first.


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## Cort Strummer (Feb 16, 2009)

I dont mean to hijack but I have a question regarding pedals.

I am running a Peavey Vypyr 30 amp. When I run the 6505 or the JSX amps models and then the tube screamer or the wylde built in effects I get a lot of feed back even in the clean channels; not as much now since I have the better pickups install and wired in parallel. 

Right now I use a Snarling Dogs Very Tone Pedal instead of the built in OD's, and I dont get any feedback on either of those amps. I plan on picking up a Boss Metal Zone because the Very Tone is not really a stand alone OD\Distortion pedal, I was wondering if you guys think I would still get feedback using those 2 pedals on the 6505 or the JSX amp models; I also have the sanpera I pedal I use for a wah.

I plan in the spring to pickup an actual 6505 or JSX amp and cabinet so I rather go with pedals, I have never really been a fan of multi effects.... (the very tone doesnt count). largetongue Am I running into feed back problems only because these are amp models or will I have feedback issues on the real deal as well?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Cort Strummer said:


> I dont mean to hijack but I have a question regarding pedals.
> 
> I am running a Peavey Vypyr 30 amp. When I run the 6505 or the JSX amps models and then the tube screamer or the wylde built in effects I get a lot of feed back even in the clean channels; not as much now since I have the better pickups install and wired in parallel.
> 
> ...


never used your amp, but I have a 6505+ with a TS808 based OD and a Mesa 2x12 recto cab and I dont have a problem with uncontrollable or excessive feedback. 
Maybe you're just using too much gain?
In truth, you may not even need an OD with a 6505+...its gain is pretty massive.
When you get closer to buying a new amp, drop me a line, I'm in Miss as well, if you want you can try out my rig.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Frogee said:


> In this set up i use the Gt8 for modeling effects ''Vibe -Tremolo-rotary ,Delay Reverb etc... in the effect _loop of my amp..
> I dont like the amp simulator and disto & overd. of the Gt8 so i m using standard pedals to drive the preamp of my Traynor..
> 
> There s a manuel mode on the Gt8 to operate effects just like individual pedals..


I like this idea a lot. I think a Multifx unit is great for chorus, delay, and a few other sounds, but would never use one for OD, Dist. etc. unless I wanted a solid state chainsaw sound.

I think a MFX unit is great if you always play in controlled environments,like at home or a studio and dont need to make various tweaks in a short amount of time.
But if you play live regularly, and in different types of places, it may not be the most user friendly to adjust on the fly. Esp if you're the sort of person that hates programming their vcr.

Since I dont really need a lot of different effects (I can get by with just chorus and delay, in addition to my OD and wah), and I hate re-creating all sort of different but similar patches, I think I'm going to sell my MFX stuff and go back to pedals.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

mhammer said:


> "This may be a dumb question, but I've never had a multi-effects unit. Are they pretty much all digital? "
> 
> Not all of them, but increasingly so.
> 
> ...


I find just the opposite. Multi FX to me is the drudgery of having to set up everything just the way you want. I found that getting in to different rooms required redoing the eq's or volumes etc. Single pedals for me escapes the drudgery. You just spin a dial till it sounds good.
At one time I used a Roland GP 16 and a Roland D50 (for my guitar synth sounds) and I constantly had issues. I got some amazing sounds but it was a lot of work. I prefer the simplicity of pedals so I can concentrate on playing
I had a Boss GT6 and then a GT8. I could never bond with it, overdrive sounds being the major concern. No matter what I did everything just sounded sterile. As well after quitting the road I no longer had the desire to sit for hours programming stuff. I just want to play.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I hear you.

I guess when I discuss "simplicity" I mean someone who wants pretty much what the factory presets deliver. Of course, if you want something different, it starts to become more cumbersome and frustrating.

I'm reminded of the famous scene in "Five Easy Pieces" where Jack Nicholson tries to order toast, or whatever it was that required the waitress to hold the chicken "between (her) knees". What's a simple request for *you* might be a complicated rearrangement for the unit.


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## Cort Strummer (Feb 16, 2009)

Diablo said:


> never used your amp, but I have a 6505+ with a TS808 based OD and a Mesa 2x12 recto cab and I dont have a problem with uncontrollable or excessive feedback.
> Maybe you're just using too much gain?
> In truth, you may not even need an OD with a 6505+...its gain is pretty massive.
> When you get closer to buying a new amp, drop me a line, I'm in Miss as well, if you want you can try out my rig.


ok, thanks!


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