# Combos vs Heads... Dum question?



## Sunny1433 (Nov 23, 2018)

So, I've wondered for the longest time about what makes someone choose an amp head over a combo version of the same amp. Wouldn't having to carry two separate things (amp head and cab) a pain? Seems like carrying a combo would be easier but quite a few of the gigging musicians I follow use amp heads. 

Any input on this? Also, has anyone tried the Victory V40 deluxe? The one based on American style clean amps.


----------



## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

In some cases, I imagine that people would rather carry two lighter boxes than one heavier one. I would also guess that the ability to mix-and-match heads with cabs is a factor.


----------



## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

Its nice to have both. In small low wattage amps I like combos, they're light and easy to carry. As they get bigger I find three advantages. Weight is the big one, my Matchless head is 50 pounds, the cab is 30 pounds the 212 combo is 88 pounds. Its pretty hideously awkward to move without a second person. The second advantage is allowing you to use any cab at the venue you go to. The third is the decoupling of the speaker cab from the tubes makes a lot less mechanical rattling etc.


----------



## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

Lots of reasons:
- at high volumes, speaker vibration can and does induce tube microphonics and you can’t do much about it in a combo, but can obviously separate in a head/cab setup
- flexibility: favourite amp matched to favourite cab/speakers on whim
- it is, in fact, often easier to carry due to separation of bulk (cab) and weight (amp)
- better speaker cavity sound design possible as a cab is not as highly constrained as a combo
- anyone ever seen a 4x12 combo? serious question; Supers are 4x10, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 4x12 combo (UPDATE: well there you go, if you think the Twin Reverb is a lightweight, we have this for you: Fender Silverface Quad Reverb)


----------



## Sunny1433 (Nov 23, 2018)

Makes sense! Thanks everyone!


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Another reason for a seperate head and cab is a lot of people like low wattage amps but don't like small 8", 10" speakers that typically come with low wattage combos.


----------



## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

I play 5-watt tube heads through an 80-watt 12" speaker. Combo amps often scrimp on speaker size and quality, to hit a marketable price point.

My practice combos always have a "speaker out" port.


----------



## Guest (Apr 20, 2019)

When using a head with cab, it is nice to mix and match cabs, but be sure to get one with variable ohms. Look for 4, 8 and 16 ohms options.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Player99 said:


> Look for 4, 8 and 16 ohms options.


In my opinion ALL heads should have this tapped output option.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I used to have a Traynor head and 4x10 cab; going anywhere was a lot of effort.

Now I use a Pro Junior or a Champ; both are combo amps so its one trip from the truck with the amp, guitar and pedal board or even if I have to schlep everything for a few blocks because there is no parking in Toronto anytime ever it's still no big deal to carry that amount of stuff.


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I don't gig or move my stuff so multiple heads into the same 2x12 takes up less space


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

LexxM3 said:


> Lots of reasons:
> - at high volumes, speaker vibration can and does induce tube microphonics and you can’t do much about it in a combo, but can obviously separate in a head/cab setup
> - flexibility: favourite amp matched to favourite cab/speakers on whim
> - it is, in fact, often easier to carry due to separation of bulk (cab) and weight (amp)
> ...


Don't forget the Super Six Reverb 6x10 combo, and the Bassman 10 4x10 closed back combo that was 3 feet tall.


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Being a bass player, bass combos were never loud enough for a band setting only home practice. Head , 115 or 215 cabs have been part of my life for a very very long time in jamming situations... 

Head 40+ lbs
Cabs 90 + lbs

Just easier one at a time going up or down stairs...


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

For guitar, combos are easy and simple solution in my opinion...


----------



## Guest (Apr 20, 2019)

Frenchy99 said:


> Being a bass player


I have my Fender BXR 300 115 combo at the jam space (80 lbs).
For gigs, I use my Markbass Jeff Berlin 115 combo (39 lbs).


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

laristotle said:


> I have my Fender BXR 300 115 combo at the jam space (80 lbs).
> For gigs, I use my Markbass Jeff Berlin 115 combo (39 lbs).


Never tried those.

I learned ( that might have changed in the last 5 years) that for great bass sound, nice large cabs have the best results... Never had success with small compact jobbers... 

Plus I found my sound for live situation, will not compromise that just to lose 10-20lbs of moving weight... Hell, if the cab was 200LBS but gave me orgasmic bass sound, I would move it daily without thinking twice about it.


----------



## Guest (Apr 20, 2019)

Frenchy99 said:


> Hell, if the cab was 200LBS but gave me orgasmic bass sound, I would move it daily without thinking twice about it.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

@bw66 and @LexxM3 nailed it, IMO. 

I would add a couple of other reasons:
- some amps are only available as heads (like my beloved TA15)
- some jam places supply cabs so I don't have to carry as much gear if you have a head


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

laristotle said:


> I have my Fender BXR 300 115 combo at the jam space (80 lbs).
> For gigs, I use my Markbass Jeff Berlin 115 combo (39 lbs).


I used my GK 200W 115 combo. 36 glorious lbs for bass. 

My guitar rigs are always heavier than my bass rig.


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I've always wondered why heads cost more than the combos.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

knight_yyz said:


> I've always wondered why heads cost more than the combos.


weird.
like which ones? I know my three current favourite manufacturers all have the head being cheaper than the combo


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

knight_yyz said:


> I've always wondered why heads cost more than the combos.


I thought they didnt? Combos include the price for the speaker(s) whereas heads dont.

Mesa boogie sticks out in my mind in that one.


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I don;t remember which ones off the top of my head. Maybe it was jsut a few I was looking at.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 251972


I had the combo version of this amp. It was a lot easier to carry.


----------



## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

Super Champ XD head makes no sense at all. Twin Reverb in a head cab makes lots of sense.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

BEACHBUM said:


> Super Champ XD head makes no sense at all. Twin Reverb in a head cab makes lots of sense.


Why doesnt the head make sense? Run a 112 or 210 or 212 etc. Makes total sense to me.


----------



## Michael Baker (Jan 23, 2019)

At some point the argument gets moot. Showman head+2x12" big cabinet+floor reverb still equals a sore back - just takes three trips vs the one with a Twin Reverb. 
Anyone who ever had to move an Ampeg SVT head (85 lbs) and the usual 8 x 10" cabinet (@175 lbs) is very happy to move modern bass amps.
I think the best reason for heads is flexibility. I have a 1 x 12" closed back, a 2 x 10" closed/open cabinet, and a 1 x 15" closed back plus a 2 x 12" with one speaker and a removable back panel. Depending on the situation, my 2 X 6L6 Fender Head (1970) can sound like just about any Fender you want. For direct sound I use a direct box that has speaker emulation and direct out.
But then again, Neil Young for years used a "blackface" Princeton - on the verge of melt-down - as his principle amp.
It is all in the music you play and the sound you want (and how strong your back is). And there are some issues trying to stuff a lot into a small space. And sometime it isn't possible. I love the sound of a pair of 6L6's and any combo with that output usually weighs more than I want to lug around.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1) I think knight_YYZ's confusion about head-vs-combo prices is really about the difference between a head+cab vs combo with the same speakers. There, he is generally correct. So, as an example, a head might be something like $899, a combo with that amp and a pair of 12s might be $1099, and a head with separate 2x12 cab would be $1299. The latter is pricier because there are more materials and labour involved, not to mention packaging and shipping costs. But I can see where a quick glance at product reviews and MSRP listings might lead to a misread and misunderstandings.

2) Clearly, combos ARE often more compact and convenient. And, thankfully, many come with a variety of possible speaker combinations, such that the same combo might be obtainable with a pair of 12s, a quartet of 10s or a single 15. However, heads offer the convenience of being usable with whatever cab and speakers you want to plug it into, as Michael Baker notes. And, while they certainly exist, closed-cab combos are rarer than open-back. And certainly 4 x 12 combos don't exist in either open or closed-back format (though 6 x 10 were produced by Fender, briefly). For servicing purposes, I think most techs would rather work on a head than on a combo...unless they have a REALLY big bench. Yes, I know you can simply take the amp out of the combo cabinet, but some kinds of servicing do not justify taking a whole combo apart; in those instances, you'd rather just plunk it on the bench, pop the back off and have at it.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I think you're more confused than knight and just rambling at this point.


----------



## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

knight_yyz said:


> I don;t remember which ones off the top of my head. Maybe it was jsut a few I was looking at.


I can think of some used Marshall's where the heads seem to go for more than a combo, at times. JCM800s come to mind.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Budda said:


> I thought they didnt? Combos include the price for the speaker(s) whereas heads dont.
> 
> Mesa boogie sticks out in my mind in that one.


Excellent call Budda.


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

tomee2 said:


> I can think of some used Marshall's where the heads seem to go for more than a combo, at times. JCM800s come to mind.


900s too it seems. I take it the combos got a bad rep in their day, probably influenced by the lack of "cool factor" compared to the ubiquitous stacks.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Also, should be noted that is the used market. I'm pretty sure, new from the factory, the combos were more expensive. The used market skews values, depending on popularity.

I have an acquaintance holding on to a minty early 60s Jazzmaster. He cries when I show him the price diff between that and a minty early 60s Strat (at least 5:1 in the Strat's favor). The Jazzmaster was the more expensive guitar new.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Frenchy99 said:


> Never tried those.
> 
> I learned ( that might have changed in the last 5 years) that for great bass sound, nice large cabs have the best results... Never had success with small compact jobbers...
> 
> Plus I found my sound for live situation, will not compromise that just to lose 10-20lbs of moving weight... Hell, if the cab was 200LBS but gave me orgasmic bass sound, I would move it daily without thinking twice about it.


That's like schlepping me up and down stairs a few times a day!


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

1SweetRide said:


> That's like schlepping me up and down stairs a few times a day!


If that's what's required to get the perfect sound... that's the job to get done...

It's a dirty job but someone got to do it!


----------



## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

There are lots of amps to choose from. It is good to have an arsenal to experience and learn from.

I believe that too often players discard or discount amps on a whim, rather than a full thrashing experience over a period of time.

I also believe that many players are too set in their ways to fully discover what good gear can do.

A good little combo, with minimalist exterior distractions, but built with the right stuff can do what a bad ass, heavy weight stack can do. It will require the rolling of guitar volume and tone knobs.

My little Dr.Z Monza combo falls into this category. It is a combo that meets and exceeds needs. Learning to restrain yourself from the ever enticing bloom, sustain, touch sensitivity, and other surprises is key. The small cube of an amp has some heft, can play devastatingly clean at the right settings, with the right single coil guitar. Likely almost any guitar if you take the time to learn parameters. A humbucker guitar can easily get away from you, and often have to have more restraint at the guitar knobs. It can also take on a stack in an impressive manner with just the 10” Red Fang alnico speaker. Add the cab of your dreams and be ready to be impressed.

This simple block of a combo amp has what it takes in a small size. It can easily be too much amp, and other amps may suit quiet playing situations better, if you are a guitar knobs on full kind of player.

17.5” wide, 17” high, 10” deep, 39 pounds


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Tone Chaser said:


> This simple block of a combo amp has what it takes in a small size. It can easily be too much amp, and other amps may suit quiet playing situations better, if you are a guitar knobs on full kind of player.


I get what your saying and agree. When I mentioned larger rigs, the reason is when I jam, its with several guitarist using half stacks... You would not even hear my bass if I didn't have my larger gear. At home, I use smaller amps and smaller bass combos. 

Its just nice to have an amp for every occasion !


----------



## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

@Frenchy99, I agree with you on multiple issues.

It is nice to have an amp for every occasion, and when it comes to Bass, you can never have enough clean wattage, and what you put it through matters. I prefer abundant, excess capabilities when it comes to bass with loud band members. My bass playing days are long gone, due to the inability to move the gear required to achieve what is needed . I always found bass fun.

I only kept an extremely lightweight, ‘80’s 100 watt, solid state GK head, and a still too heavy Traynor 210 cab with a horn. The large tube bass heads, and required cabs are long gone. I only play at home with my bass gear at reasonable volume.


----------



## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

Ever plug a 5F1 tweed champ into a Marshall 4X12 cab?.....Oh my.


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

keithb7 said:


> Ever plug a 5F1 tweed champ into a Marshall 4X12 cab?.....Oh my.


I've played my Valve Jr into a Behringer 4x12


----------



## Guest (May 4, 2019)

keithb7 said:


> Ever plug a 5F1 tweed champ into a Marshall 4X12 cab?.....Oh my.





cboutilier said:


> I've played my Valve Jr into a Behringer 4x12


Almost anything into a 412.
I used to have a Traynor 1/4 horse into a 110.
Buddy had a 412 at a jam that I plugged into.
Wow!!


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

laristotle said:


> Almost anything into a 412.
> I used to have a Traynor 1/4 horse into a 110.
> Buddy had a 412 at a jam that I plugged into.
> Wow!!


If I ever land a regular gig somewhere, the kind where I can leave an amp there for a whole year without moving it, I'd like to buy a Quad Reverb or Super Six Reverb for it. I'd love to have that big 4x or 6x tone, but I'm not carrying around a 4x12 or 6x10 cab or combo every night. I draw the line at a 2x12 or 1x15 combo.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

keithb7 said:


> Ever plug a 5F1 tweed champ into a Marshall 4X12 cab?.....Oh my.


Blues jr too. Used that on a sparrows album - blues jr into marshall 412 to add a layer of grit.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

keithb7 said:


> Ever plug a 5F1 tweed champ into a Marshall 4X12 cab?.....Oh my.


My old Princeton Reverb run into extension speakers or cabs is nuts. I play in a heavy band bordering on punk with 2 guitar players, and it will cut through no problem.


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Come and plug that thing in one of my 810`s or my 612... HNG^%$


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

torndownunit said:


> My old Princeton Reverb run into extension speakers or cabs is nuts. I play in a heavy band bordering on punk with 2 guitar players, and it will cut through no problem.


I used to run a PR clone into an oversized 1x15 closed back cab. Huge sound.


----------

