# Question For Drivers...



## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...you're coming up to a red light. 

both lanes are full. 

in the left lane are the usual passenger cars, SUVs, minivans etc.

in the right lane are school buses, eighteen-wheelers, ttc buses, a cement truck, a city vehicle with a flat bed carrying an enormous construction crane, a busload of tourists and a little old lady driving a pinto.

you don't want to get stuck in the lane that barely moves when the light changes to green so, which lane to you choose?

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!

wrong answer.

don't ask me why, but the right lane moves faster.

every time.

i have tested this theory countless times and, in virtually every instance, the lane with the "slow-moving' vehicles is the one that moves faster when the light changes.

truly, one of life's great mysteries...

-dh


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Thanks for posting this Dave! Finally someone who experiences what I do. 

On my way to and from work, I can be in the lane with just cars, and move slower than if I was in the lane with buses and big rigs...

I just don't get it!!

~Andrew


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

kw_guitarguy said:


> Thanks for posting this Dave! Finally someone who experiences what I do.
> 
> On my way to and from work, I can be in the lane with just cars, and move slower than if I was in the lane with buses and big rigs...
> 
> ...


generally the pros aren't gonna hang around, they get paid to move, and so they do. they also leave adequate following distance, over all (there are certainly those who don't, though). a good cushion of distance means that you don't have to panic stop all the time, and traffic can move. most of traffic jams is ripple effect from a series of cars having to brake.

the truest thing i've heard about traffic, from an old instructor, is that it's like water, always seeking the lowest place. you can learn to anticipate this, and be where the center of the movement is, with some practice..


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Oddly enough, with today's drivers the same applies to the highways.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

The danger of choosing the lane with the 18 wheeler & bus is you can follow them through a red light without even knowing it. I always choose the lane where I can actually see whats up ahead where Im going to be driving to.........


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

excellant point Eccept.........but generally speaking I drive in the right lane as I was taught.........left lane is for the yoyo's who drive too fast.........of course I'm one of those annoying people who drive the speed limit, or less in inclemment weather.............


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

RIFF WRATH said:


> excellant point Eccept.........but generally speaking I drive in the right lane as I was taught.........left lane is for the yoyo's who drive too fast.........of course I'm one of those annoying people who drive the speed limit, or less in inclemment weather.............


that's not annoying to me at all. what is annoying though is when someone drives the speed limit and stays to the left.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Human decision-making time is one of the principal factors underlying rate of traffic flow if you ask me. Those decisions needn't be lofty ones. They can be very basic things like "What do I do now to get the vehicle in motion?". 

Making decisions can also be a function of readiness. For instance, you know those dots in the middle of the holes on the dial in old-fashioned rotary phones? They allowed the user to have a target and get their finger ready before the dial came to rest, resulting in about 1/3 less time required to dial. So, one might imagine that even though they likely drive a standard, and have more work to do to get moving again, compared to someone in an automatic who merely has their foot on the break,

One might expect that drivers in large cumbersome vehicles, but with a defined mission/direction, knowledge of the map and where they are headed, and no distractions, can actually make a hastier departure from a red light than someone who is vaguely familiar with where they are headed, is a less "fluid" driver, and has a kid or mother-in-law in the back seat nattering over the radio.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

The only thing that would stop me from staying in the right lane is the old lady in the Pinto - Man, I wouldn't want to run into the back of that thing.


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## Krimson (Dec 22, 2008)

I haven't had the same experience. One semi at a red light means i'm in the other lane, even if i'm 10 cars back and need that lane to turn at the next block.

edit: Also I'm not sure if the laws are the same across Canada but school buses here put up a "stop sign" evertime they stop and you can't move till they do, and they dead-stop at railroad tracks for ~5 seconds. When you see a school bus you do everything you can to clear it before they stop somewhere.


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## PaulS (Feb 27, 2006)

I usually stick to the right lane, chances are one in the left is going to make a turn.


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## OMGRLY? (Nov 30, 2008)

Krimson said:


> I haven't had the same experience. One semi at a red light means i'm in the other lane, even if i'm 10 cars back and need that lane to turn at the next block.
> 
> edit: Also I'm not sure if the laws are the same across Canada but school buses here put up a "stop sign" evertime they stop and you can't move till they do, and they dead-stop at railroad tracks for ~5 seconds. When you see a school bus you do everything you can to clear it before they stop somewhere.


Erm I'm pretty sure the rule is, at a railroad you can go past, but not if it's unloading/ loading kids. I've been driving with my instructor (working on a G2) and he's told me it's OK as long as the stop sign isn't out, but the bus driver only opens the door, not the stop sign, when they are stopped at a railroad, meaning it's OK to go past.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I guess in the city the right hand lane will move sooner, but if there's any open space ahead, the left lane will ultimately overtake the right.


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## Michelle (Aug 21, 2006)

When on the bike, just 'split' the lanes and give it shit. Wanna see people become murderously enraged? haha


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

Michelle said:


> When on the bike, just 'split' the lanes and give it shit. Wanna see people become murderously enraged? haha


in europe, motorcycles get to go to the front at traffic lights. intelligent thinking that should be adopted here, too.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

In Brazil motorcycles do what ever the F$%k they please, including zipping in and out of traffic lanes and clipping the odd side mirror.


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## Michelle (Aug 21, 2006)

suttree said:


> in europe, motorcycles get to go to the front at traffic lights. intelligent thinking that should be adopted here, too.


The only thing like that I've seen around here is when crossing a river ferry, all the bikes move to the front of the line. I guess maybe it's because the operators can pack us in the places cars can't go.

I miss riding, sigh.......


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

suttree said:


> that's not annoying to me at all. what is annoying though is when someone drives the speed limit and stays to the left.


...annoying? yeah, no question.

but what is _really_ annoying is when its brought up as a distraction from _*genuine*_ safety issues like speeding, me-first driving and highway bullying.

that said, it is rather ironic that we are so annoyed by people who obey the law.

-dh


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

You guys would like the Autobahn. If you drive in the left lane, the cops will pull you over and fine you. The left lane is only for passing. Of course if your doing 200mph, which is common in some sections, you are pretty well always passing.........


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...annoying? yeah, no question.
> 
> but what is _really_ annoying is when its brought up as a distraction from _*genuine*_ safety issues like speeding, me-first driving and highway bullying.
> 
> ...



I agree that some of the abovementioned nasty habits are dangerous, but if you're in the left lane driving the limit and people are passing you on the right, you're an idiot and are just as dangerous as the agressive drivers.

The left lane is a passing lane. If you're driving slower than most of the traffic in the right lane(s)......

That's more than merely annoying.


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## MustEnjoyPie (Jan 28, 2009)

Ugh, this happens to me all the freaking time.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I agree that some of the abovementioned nasty habits are dangerous, but if you're in the left lane driving the limit and people are passing you on the right, you're an idiot and are just as dangerous as the agressive drivers.
> The left lane is a passing lane. If you're driving slower than most of the traffic in the right lane(s)......
> That's more than merely annoying.



...only to impatient drivers, or those who think they are in some kind of hurry.

when traffic is congested and all lanes are full, is everyone expected to leave the passing lane open?

and for whom?


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

david henman said:


> ...only to impatient drivers, or those who think they are in some kind of hurry.
> 
> when traffic is congested and all lanes are full, is everyone expected to leave the passing lane open?
> 
> and for whom?


Only for those who feel they need to pass everyone regardless of traffic in front . These are the idiots flashing their headlights trying to get past only to be slowed again . I don't understand these drivers but I feel it's about time a traffic enforcement unit was developed to start nailing aggressive and speeding drivers . Seems there is getting to be too many that need a shot of reality and a few good tickets/driver re-education to make them think about it a bit . There is little fear out there because you rarely see the police monitoring traffic and when they do they make a big announcement about it on the radio .


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

I have a question for the left lane bandit fans. If someone comes up behind you fast, and you dont let them get past you, did you consider:
1. They could be headed to a hospital and are in a hurry to get there.
2. They are a doctor/volenteer firefighter/paramedic going on a call, either officially or to observe an incident.
3. They could have a high potential for road rage, and by getting in their way you may open yourself up to either being the on the receiving end, or being a conductor for someone else to be on the receiving end of that rage.
4. You arent the police, so why would you impeed the flow of traffic?

Is it so hard to allow the speeders to pass you? Does it make you feel inferior somehow? If someone wants to pass you, you should let them. When you drive, be like the natural forces of the Universe, choose the path of least resistance. In this Universe it is actually possible to walk through a wall, but the probobility of it happening is pretty well zero, so why do people always live their life like the want to walk through walls?............


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

david henman said:


> ...only to impatient drivers, or those who think they are in some kind of hurry.
> 
> when traffic is congested and all lanes are full, is everyone expected to leave the passing lane open?
> 
> and for whom?


yes. for everyone. besides the situation you're describing is gridlock, that's of course going to be slow for all drivers. although the lack of proper following distance given by most drivers is the root cause of most of our congestion. 

i think the biggest part of the problem with lane usage is the way the signs and rules are set up in canada. in europe everyone is told, "drive right, pass left". ok no problem. here we're told, "slow traffic keep to the right". such a big difference, because of course, no one is a slow driver, just ask them. 

big rigs are open to a $500 fine for being in the left-most lane of any (over 6) multi lane highway. when on the 401, there's always so many people going exactly 99 km/hr in the middle lane, who won't move to the right, even though the lane may be clear for miles. it's rude.

don't even get me started on cell phones.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

The whole left lane/right lane/passing lane issue doesn't matter to my drive to work, as there are several intersections & exits that require drivers to be in that lane to turn. And when those turning left have gone that way, they are replaced by people turning left at the next intersection. This is not a gridlock situation, the traffic flows smoothly. I drive in the lane I need, although I will pass slower drivers when it is safe to do so.

And there are large vehicles likely to be in any lane, due to the intersections. If you get out of the lane behind the large vehicles, they are very likely to change lanes ahead of you before you can pass them, if you don't they are likely to stay ahead of you slowing things down.

What I don't like is when all lanes are occupied by drivers who are beside each other, all driving below the speed limit. Nobody can pass. If they're driving the speed limit-I'm fine with that--of course that also is assuming good road conditions & visibility.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...uh, dude, no one is a "fan of left lane bandits". whatever gave you that idea? they are annoying, inconsiderate and an utter mystery - what are they thinking?

please, a little logic - all we're claiming is that left lane bandits are not a safety issue. they are not even on the radar.




Accept2 said:


> I have a question for the left lane bandit fans. If someone comes up behind you fast, and you dont let them get past you, did you consider:
> 1. They could be headed to a hospital and are in a hurry to get there.
> 2. They are a doctor/volenteer firefighter/paramedic going on a call, either officially or to observe an incident.
> 3. They could have a high potential for road rage, and by getting in their way you may open yourself up to either being the on the receiving end, or being a conductor for someone else to be on the receiving end of that rage.
> ...


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

zontar said:


> What I don't like is when all lanes are occupied by drivers who are beside each other, all driving below the speed limit. Nobody can pass.



...when the highway is this congested (ie gridlock), what gives anyone the right to think they should be able to pass everyone?


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## rebeldog (Dec 24, 2008)

suttree said:


> yes. for everyone. besides the situation you're describing is gridlock, that's of course going to be slow for all drivers. although the lack of proper following distance given by most drivers is the root cause of most of our congestion.
> 
> i think the biggest part of the problem with lane usage is the way the signs and rules are set up in canada. in europe everyone is told, "drive right, pass left". ok no problem. here we're told, "slow traffic keep to the right". such a big difference, because of course, no one is a slow driver, just ask them.
> 
> ...


Don't forget about the idiots that wait until the last minute to exit and then has to cut across 3 lanes of traffic to make their exit ei. Hwy#8 and 401


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## rebeldog (Dec 24, 2008)

david henman said:


> ...when the highway is this congested (ie gridlock), what gives anyone the right to think they should be able to pass everyone?


don't know maybe ask the clowns driving down the shoulder


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

Gridlock is one thing. When you are on a "4" series highway, then most often, the right lane is the one that is moving faster because of all the dickheads cruising the left lane. That law is one that is not enforced at all in Ontario at least. I don't know how may times past 8 pm going home on the 401 and some idiot is doing 105 in the left lane, with a group of 5-6 vehicles all in a clump, and he won't pass!! What is this,,group therapy?? 
The left lane is for overtaking and passing. Period. If you aren't passing, get out of it. Move with the flow of traffic, regardless if you think they are going too fast. You are more of a menace if you don't.

CT.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...only to impatient drivers, or those who think they are in some kind of hurry.
> 
> when traffic is congested and all lanes are full, is everyone expected to leave the passing lane open?
> 
> and for whom?


No offence, but it's not your place or anyone else's to judge who is in a hurry or not.

When you have a 7 hour drive ahead of you, the difference between driving 100km and 120 has a huge impact on your ETA.

If you're not in a rush that's great. More power to you. Stay in the right lane and everybody will be happier and safer. When people (not just one or two "impatient drivers") are passing you on the right and others are approaching your rear end consistantly, you need to move over. Simple.

Really this only works outside of the GTA. Driving in the Toronto area is completely different than driving the Hamilton to Windsor corridor or similar normal highways. In gridlock you just grin and bare it. No sense being in a hurry. NOBODY is going anywhere fast. That's one reason you couldn't pay me enough to live in Toronto or any similar megalopolis.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> Milkman said:
> 
> 
> > In gridlock you just grin and* bare *it. /QUOTE]
> ...


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

david henman said:


> ...when the highway is this congested (ie gridlock), what gives anyone the right to think they should be able to pass everyone?


Let me be clearer--I am not referring to people who are driving slowly due to gridlock, but people who uneccessarily create gridlock behind them, when there is no gridlock ahead of them.

I have been behind people that have nobody ahead of them, the roads are dry & clear, visibility is great--no fog, no glare, etc.--and they drive 10 kmh or more below the speed limit. And the car(s) in the lane(s) beside them are also driving the same speed--they are all driving well below the speed limit, and not allowing traffic to flow. If a policeman saw them, they could get a ticket for causing ttraffic delays--but that never seems to happen. 

When there's gridlock, whether due to traffic volume, accident, construction (A common reason out here), visibility, road conditions, etc. That's fine--I just sit back and wait. But when it's caused by people who seem afraid to drive the speed limit, or they're driving slowly because they're on their cell phones (which is quite common out here), or maybe they don't even realize what they're doing, or who knows why, then that is wrong. They are the problem.

I'm not looking to pass everyone. I let people pass me if they're maniacs and it's safe to let them pass. I'd rather have the maniacs ahead of me, than behind me.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Milkman said:


> When you have a 7 hour drive ahead of you, the difference between driving 100km and 120 has a huge impact on your ETA.


Trouble is 120km doesn't seem to be near fast enough to a lot of drivers on the 400's . I usually cruise at around 115 maybe 120 if it's not busy but there is always drivers passing you that must be doing 130-140 or better .


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

nitehawk55 said:


> Trouble is 120km doesn't seem to be near fast enough to a lot of drivers on the 400's . I usually cruise at around 115 maybe 120 if it's not busy but there is always drivers passing you that must be doing 130-140 or better .


Yup and if they come up behind me while I happen to be in the left lane, I move over and let them by.

I use cruise control and I have no desire to be first. I just want to drive at a reasonable pace and if someone wants to go faster that's between them and the cops.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

rebeldog said:


> Don't forget about the idiots that wait until the last minute to exit and then has to cut across 3 lanes of traffic to make their exit ei. Hwy#8 and 401


...quite often they don't...quite...make it...not pretty.

on friday afternoon, driving south on the 404, some braindead idiot, with a car full of passengers, was speeding down the hov lane and realized his exit (finch, i think) was right there. he swept across four lanes ansd barely made his exit. had someone been speeding down any of those lanes....ugh!


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

*No offence, but it's not your place or anyone else's to judge who is in a hurry or not.*

...its not a "judgement", dude, its an observation.


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