# Traynor YCV



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

I have a YCV20WR and there's a YCV40T for sale around here.

Would I want to sell the 20W and get the 40W ? 20W has a Greenback 12" in it, 40 W has 2X10" Celestion Tube 70. I don't gig, for use at home studio.

Tonally, is there much difference ? I am actually trying to find a way to tame the gain on the 20W by swapping preamp tubes. Will I be in the same boat with the 40W ?


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

double post


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

" I am actually trying to find a way to tame the gain on the 20W by swapping preamp tubes."
-BGood

I do this "mod" on few amp; it work fine ; use only a 12AY7.

About YCV40T , I don't know


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Keep the 20. You're not gaining anything you need going with the 40, and complicating things if you ever want to try a different speaker by going to a 2x10.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Keep the YCV20. Speakers and tubes can easily be swapped.


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## aC2rs (Jul 9, 2007)

I'd be inclined to keep the YCV20 and buy the YCV40T.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

BGood said:


> I have a YCV20WR and there's a YCV40T for sale around here.
> 
> Would I want to sell the 20W and get the 40W ? 20W has a Greenback 12" in it, 40 W has 2X10" Celestion Tube 70. I don't gig, for use at home studio.
> 
> Tonally, is there much difference ? I am actually trying to find a way to tame the gain on the 20W by swapping preamp tubes. Will I be in the same boat with the 40W ?


The 20 uses EL84s and the 40 uses 6L6s for output tubes, different sonic qualities. Where do you want to alter the gain?


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Latole said:


> use nL6ly a 12AY7.


Yep, I have a 12AY7 and a 12AU7 coming my way.


aC2rs said:


> I'd be inclined to keep the YCV20 and buy the YCV40T.


Right, but once I have both I'll be inclined to only play one and I don't want amps that don't get play time.


Paul Running said:


> The 20 uses EL84s and the 40 uses 6L6s for output tubes, different sonic qualities. Where do you want to alter the gain?


Schematics are like hieroglyphs to me. I think it's in preamp gain/distortion that I want changes. This video seem to well illustrate what I could get.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Here's another one.


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## slag banal (May 4, 2020)

My 40 is way too loud for my little home studio. To me it’s a gigging amp.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Well, I find the YCV40 is awesome but it's tricky to get the tone I want at a reasonable volume in my roughly 12' x 24' room. The extra cab helps somehow, as do the Cannabis Rex speakers, but for home use it's a little much. I had an early YCV20 that was utterly awesome and served my purposes well, though it too was loud-ish. Directing the amps and creative mic-ing does help.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

BGood said:


> Schematics are like hieroglyphs to me. I think it's in preamp gain/distortion that I want changes. This video seem to well illustrate what I could get.


They can be intimidating at first however, with practice you will be able to understand and navigate them confidently. The knowledge that you gain will help you in your pursuit of tone.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Here's a link that you may find interesting: 






White Papers


Guitar amplifiers




www.aikenamps.com





These are articles on some of the mechanics or the workings of a guitar amp. I found them interesting...it will depend somewhat on your previous knowlege of electronics.
For myself, when I wish to reduce the gain in the first stage of a preamp, I usually lower the value of the cathode by-pass capacitor (C1 in the case of the YCV20, try lowering the value from 22ufd to 0.47ufd - 0.01ufd). This will reduce the gain, roll-off the bass amplification and reduce distortion of the signal by the way of the local feedback-loop that is created when C1 is reduced or eliminated...I operate the majority of my preamps with local, cathode feedback. You can also feedback from plate to grid through a cap and resistor...this too will reduce the gain of that stage.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

It's only limited by your imagination, after that it's all up to you.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Paul Running said:


> It's only limited by your imagination, after that it's all up to you.


LOL ... imagination is my business: jeangaudet.ca


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

buy an ABY and have both.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

The YCV20 will not be easy to work on, even to change the tubes. I think the preamp tubes required taking the chassis out. The power tubes are easier to get at with the speaker removed. The circuit board is what it is, a PC board that needs to be removed to change any components.
I had one and loved it but I wouldnt want to start trying to swap out tubes frequently to see what sounds good. I'd leave it stock, maybe get an attenuator.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Definitely a consideration when shopping for an amp...accessibility to components when you want to experiment with the amp or service it.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

tomee2 said:


> The YCV20 will not be easy to work on, even to change the tubes. I think the preamp tubes required taking the chassis out. The power tubes are easier to get at with the speaker removed. The circuit board is what it is, a PC board that needs to be removed to change any components.
> I had one and loved it but I wouldnt want to start trying to swap out tubes frequently to see what sounds good. I'd leave it stock, maybe get an attenuator.


I know about access not being direct. I've got time ...
I don't want to reduce volume, I want to smoothen gain. An attenuator won't do much for what I'm aiming for.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

If you don't wish to do a loadline then here's a chart for a GE 12AX7A configured for RC amp, check the schematic to the chart...you will have to extrapolate for the supply voltages (Ebb).










Note the variance in gain.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Paul Running said:


> If you don't wish to do a loadline then here's a chart for a GE 12AX7A configured for RC amp, check the schematic to the chart...you will have to extrapolate for the supply voltages (Ebb).
> 
> View attachment 342491
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for those efforts to make me understand all that. But my mind doesn't work like that. I don't need to know the innards of an amp. I am not ... can't find the word ... cartesian. My logic, my reasonning doesn't agree with schematics and technical tidbits. I don't read music, I play it. I don't build printers, I paint images with a brush.

Went to see that White Papers link you posted. I clicked one link and that was it. My mind forbade me to click a second one.

I got that changing tubes in the preamp (had to learn which tubes were preamp) will somewhat alter the gain in my amp. Some used tubes were sent to me (thank you guys) and I'll swap them and see what my ears have to say about it. The videos I posted above are more like what I'm looking for as information.

Please don't take it personally and thanks again for the help, but I can't use it as is. Maybe I'm not surfing the right forum for my level of understanding all things electronic.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

No problem, my brother is an artist so, I understand.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Try to picture a tube as a raw untamed beast. You are going to tame the beast by learning it's behaviours and syncing in with him...you now understand him and are able to predict outcomes...just a different line of thinking.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Paul Running said:


> Try to picture a tube as a raw untamed beast. You are going to tame the beast by learning it's behaviours and syncing in with him...you now understand him and are able to predict outcomes...just a different line of thinking.


And they really show their stripes when you push them past their limits.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

It's funny how different people interpret information, my electrical tech buddy looked at the Epi Bit mo instructions and can't quite get the process. He is a schematic guy and that makes no sense to me. Neither do the instructions until I see a picture of the final product. We all figure shit out different and should respect how others do. I really want to know how to take a meter and follow a schematic to test where I have a problem. 

I will keep trying to learn.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

BGood said:


> I know about access not being direct. I've got time ...
> I don't want to reduce volume, I want to smoothen gain. An attenuator won't do much for what I'm aiming for.


An attenuator is more than just reducing volume - it's getting power tube distortion at lower volumes. You never know, power tube distortion might be exactly what you're looking for to 'smoothen gain'. You won't know till you try it.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

High/Deaf said:


> An attenuator is more than just reducing volume - it's getting power tube distortion at lower volumes. You never know, power tube distortion might be exactly what you're looking for to 'smoothen gain'. You won't know till you try it.


Alright, thanks.
Thing is, at 15W this amp doens't really need its volume reduced. I run it with volume maxed and deal with loudness with the gain knob.

As I wait for preamp tubes to come in, I play my Joyo Ameriacn Sound through the FX loop and I'm getting closer ot what my ears like to hear. This way I can also lower the amp volume knob and crank the Joyo's.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I had a YCV40 a long time ago and honestly didn't care for it.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

BGood said:


> Alright, thanks.
> Thing is, at 15W this amp doens't really need its volume reduced. I run it with volume maxed and deal with loudness with the gain knob.


I've gigged 15 watt amps, and I wouldn't play them at home as loud as I play them on stage (not all 15 watters, but some). It's uncomfortable and unnecessary. 

Whether it's 5 watts (which I've also gigged with, but only the dirty channel of my LSS) or 100, a good attenuator or reamper can get the goods at reasonable home volumes that MV's and preamp gain stages just can't recreate. Those tools can get you distortion, but not power tube distortion. Some people care, some don't.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

WHOA ! What a difference !

Thank you all for your advice. Special thanks to Lincoln who sent me three different 12A*7 tubes. The 12AU7 did the trick. Gain is now much tamer, less fuzzy, more organic (if there's such a thing), creamier.

Several times in the six months I owned it, I almost got rid of it, even put it up on Kijiji for a few hours before pulling the ad. I really wanted to like this beautiful little combo, I now do.




tomee2 said:


> The YCV20 will not be easy to work on, even to change the tubes. I think the preamp tubes required taking the chassis out. The power tubes are easier to get at with the speaker removed. The circuit board is what it is, a PC board that needs to be removed to change any components.
> I had one and loved it but I wouldnt want to start trying to swap out tubes frequently to see what sounds good. I'd leave it stock, maybe get an attenuator.


Not entirely true. Took all of maybe 20 minutes to test 3 tubes.

5 little screws to take out, a 10" long narrow panel is then removed showing V1 and V2 making them easily accessible. I laid the amp on one side so I could swap the V1 tube while I tested for tone. Yes I unplugged the amp between swaps.

It actually took longer to find a loose washer that was sliding around the cab as I turned it upside down and sideways.


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

BGood said:


> I know about access not being direct. I've got time ...
> I don't want to reduce volume, I want to smoothen gain. An attenuator won't do much for what I'm aiming for.


 Consider changing the phase inverter tube to an 12at7 or an 12ay7. You get the needed drive earlier in the signal chain but the clipping response on the phase inverter to my ear is softer, more round

Markus


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Markus 1 said:


> Consider changing the phase inverter tube to an 12at7 or an 12ay7. You get the needed drive earlier in the signal chain but the clipping response on the phase inverter to my ear is softer, more round
> 
> Markus


OK ... excuse my ignorance, but which tube is that ? The splitter in this image ?


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

BGood said:


> OK ... excuse my ignorance, but which tube is that ? The splitter in this image ?
> 
> View attachment 343157​


Yes. The splitter


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Markus 1 said:


> Yes. The splitter


I'll try that.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Tried the 12AY7 and a 12AV7 in the splitter this morning, all it really did was lower the volume plenty. Not much change in grit quality.

Thanks for the suggestion Markus.
The 12AU7 did a great job in V1, so I'll leave it at that and enjoy it.


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

BGood said:


> Tried the 12AY7 and a 12AV7 in the splitter this morning, all it really did was lower the volume plently. Not much change in grit quality.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion Markus.
> The 12AU7 did a great job in V1, so I'll leave it at that and enjoy it.


Awesome. Glad you found your personal sweet spot


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

BGood said:


> I have a YCV20WR and there's a YCV40T for sale around here.
> 
> Would I want to sell the 20W and get the 40W ? 20W has a Greenback 12" in it, 40 W has 2X10" Celestion Tube 70. I don't gig, for use at home studio.
> 
> Tonally, is there much difference ? I am actually trying to find a way to tame the gain on the 20W by swapping preamp tubes. Will I be in the same boat with the 40W ?


 Consider selling the YCV20WR and buying the 20th Anniversary 40 watt YCV4050 equipped with 6L6 output tubes. Replacements can be any brand of 6L6 or 5881 tubes. Swapping in EL34/6CA7 output tubes requires a change in one of the bias resistors to avoid tube overheating. Pre-amp stage is outfitted with three 12AX7 tubes (alternative 7025A). Also has a Vintage/Modern switch to help sculpt the sound you are after, ...a smooth, vintage voice or a more aggressive modern voice through the single 12-inch Celestion Creamback speaker.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Midnight Rider said:


> Consider selling the YCV20WR and buying the 20th Anniversary 40 watt YCV4050 equipped with 6L6 output tubes. Replacements can be any brand of 6L6 or 5881 tubes. Swapping in EL34/6CA7 output tubes requires a change in one of the bias resistors to avoid tube overheating. Pre-amp stage is outfitted with three 12AX7 tubes (alternative 7025A). Also has a Vintage/Modern switch to help sculpt the sound you are after, ...a smooth, vintage voice or a more aggressive modern voice through the single 12-inch Celestion Creamback speaker.
> 
> View attachment 343817
> View attachment 343818


Nice amp ! Unfortunatly I don't have the budget to go there.


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