# Pine or Pepco 211 cap question



## Doug (May 10, 2016)

Hi Everyone, I am new to the forum. I have a Pine 211 amp my late brother used when he was playing in the 60"s and 70's and restoring for his son. I am replacing the caps and have a question about the 40uF 450 volt cans. There is a red dot on one of the terminals of one can, and on the outside of the can it says red outer. I don't see a red dot on the other can but it also says red outer. I am using terminal strips and 4 new caps. I can't seem to find a schematic on-line for this amp. Could someone tell me what the red dot indicates? 
Thank you for any help you can offer,
Doug


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I am the only one on the net with a schematic for that amp. It's not 100 percent accurate, but it should help. The red dot shouldn't mean anything really. Each terminal on those is the positive end of a separate 40uF cap. The negative ends are common grounded through the can mounting tabs. 

Check out my 211 build thread on this forum.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

I was going to mention the same as cboutilier said above, glad he got here first! 
Here's the link to his thread:
Repair Question - Vintage Pine/Pepco Model 211 restoration


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## TeleToons (Aug 13, 2014)

I had luck with using the JJ cans from the Tubestore. Fit right in. Was able to use the existing wiring without disturbing it and ended up with a hum free amp. Just a thought


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## Doug (May 10, 2016)

Ok thanks, the red dot threw me off. I wanted to be sure it was neg to ground. Thanks for the replies and the link, lots of great info on this forum!


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I ordered conventional axial caps to replace mine. Way way cheaper.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

That's a good way to do it. Cut the wires off the old existing caps and leave them in place for looks.
The new modern axials (or radials) are much smaller and can easily be placed inside the chassis.


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## TeleToons (Aug 13, 2014)

I agree most of the time, but a two cap can is under 10 dollars, saves using tag strips and does not require re routing of wires or drilling holes. A couple of axials will cost as much. Any how, worked for me on the Pepco. Lot's of options.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

I didn't realize you could get them that cheap in the exact size. 
I guess as long as you have a whopper of an iron to make the chassis ground connections.


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## Doug (May 10, 2016)

Hi Everyone, I finally got around to replacing the caps in this Pine 211 amp and I'm on to the speakers now. These speakers are shot so I need to replace them. There are no markings on the speakers to identify the impedance. Can you suggest a good replacement (are they 8 or 16 ohm) and should they be hooked up in series or parallel?
Thank you for any help you can offer,
Doug


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I believe the 211 was an 8 ohm output. So two 16's in parallel. If they aren't completely cooked you can measure the DC Resistance with a meter and see what you have.

Funny you posted this now. I just got a call 5 minutes ago saying that my caps have arrived.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Two 4 ohm speakers in series will also give you an 8 ohm load.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

jb welder said:


> Two 4 ohm speakers in series will also give you an 8 ohm load.


I'd only do that if you had the 4 ohms laying around. Parallel saves you in a failure situation, so you may only drop one speaker.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Yes, I was mentioning in case 4 ohms were more available to him.
However, there are pros and cons for both series and parallel set-ups. Can depend on the type of failure and how quick the player reacts. Sometimes people don't notice right away that they've blown one speaker, so they keep playing and blow the other because it couldn't handle the power alone.
Not saying series is better, just that it's not always worse.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Leo put series speaker jack pairs on most Musician amps. Not sure confusing musicians like that was worth it, but he had his reasons.


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## Doug (May 10, 2016)

I have 2 16 ohm 80 watt speakers available. Would these work?


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Those in parallel would be perfect!


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## Doug (May 10, 2016)

Ok, Thanks! The reason I asked is the output being so low and the wattage of the speakers being 80 watts


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Doug said:


> Ok, Thanks! The reason I asked is the output being so low and the wattage of the speakers being 80 watts


My 5W Valve Jr came stock with a single 75W speaker


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## Doug (May 10, 2016)

That's the info I was looking for! Thanks for your help, I appreciate it


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