# Recommend me some pedals!!



## Agata0023 (Mar 15, 2007)

Hey everyone. It's about time I got another *EFFECT* pedal or two. I play noise-rock and all my equiptment is in my sig. The only thing I don't have anymore is the amp. I've gone completely digital and now use my computer for everything. So, what do you think I could use? Thanks!

EDIT!! 

My budget is $275 CAD


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## Agata0023 (Mar 15, 2007)

Haha, I guess I should have specified that I was looking for new effect pedals for my guitar in the Effects Pedals thread....My bad...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Folks who have a thing about making weird noises tend to also have a thing for Effector 13 pedals (which I note are coming in ever more professional-looking boxes; must be a sign that business is good).
http://www.pedalspluseffectswarehouse.com/Effector_13_s/75.htm


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## SinCron (Mar 2, 2006)

A 31 band EQ. Lol. Nah just kidding. Try some Electro Harmonix stuff. It's all true bypass and really neat stuff. Try the Q-Tron or the Frequency Analyzer. If you could spend $500, I'd really recommend a HOG. Really really neat synth pedal with many options and well worth the price with absolutely no tracking issues or anything of that sort you'd get with a lot of the other pedals of this nature.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Analog, Analog, Analog. :smile:


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

SinCron said:


> A 31 band EQ. Lol. Nah just kidding. Try some Electro Harmonix stuff. It's all true bypass and really neat stuff. Try the Q-Tron or the Frequency Analyzer. If you could spend $500, I'd really recommend a HOG. Really really neat synth pedal with many options and well worth the price with absolutely no tracking issues or anything of that sort you'd get with a lot of the other pedals of this nature.


I was under the impression that EHX stuff, though easy to mod for true bypass, is not true bypass...

I would also say to look into Effector 13 stuff or even Mid-fi Electronics. (http://www.midfielectronics.com/) Now THEY have some crazy stuff! 

Both of these are stocked at Moogaudio.ca (stores in Montreal and Toronto) No Affiliation.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2008)

BBE sonic maximizer.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

sell all your boxes and get either the Boss GT-10 or the Line 6 POD X3 Live.

and then have a field day!


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## Agata0023 (Mar 15, 2007)

I've seen and heard some of the Effector 13 pedals before...Love them.

I'm not really into Chorus' Pedals...I don't know why...I guess they aren't noisey enough?? I've played around with EHX pedals before and I do like them alot...Maybe I'll pick one of those up.

I've been playing for almost 15 years now, I think I've hit my getting-better wall. 

What exactly does a Sonic Maximizer do? What kind of sounds can it create?

I would have gone with a GT10 or something similar, but I like having the individual pedals....better control, plus the way I use my delay pedals I doubt if I would be able to recreate that on a multi-effect. If I can though...That's a different story.

The behringer and Dano pedals aren't as bad as I (and as many others told me) thought they were going to be. I use a noise-gate with minimal settings and there is barely any buzz or hiss. I guess if it got really bad, I could break my pedal chain into 2 chains using an A/B pedal and switch off the side I'm not using at that time...

I'm getting alot of good ideas from you guys though. I'm going to re-evaluate the current setup...maybe sell some older ones to bump up the budget.  Thanks a ton everyone!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The Sonic Maximizer, or any of the rackmount BBE process units, is of varying use to players. Certainly, its greatest usefulness would likely be to anyone playing either an acoustic or electrified acoustic, Parker, or other piezo-equipped guitar, are simply someone with SC pickups who likes to sound clean in an otherwise clean-sounding band.

What they do...

In the real world, all physical objects that produce sound will generally also produce harmonics of the fundamental sound. Since objects can be anywhere in the sound-field, but we only have two ears, one of the ways in which we sort the many sounds reaching our ears into sound sources from identifiable directions and distances is by essentially sorting sounds into "this harmonic goes with that fundamental". Part of what lets us do it with ease and certainty is the time alignment of harmonics and fundamentals. If the harmonics are aligned in time and in the appropriate phase relationship, then we know they "go together". When the phase relationship is buggered up, the sorting is much harder.

For a number of reasons, over a complicated signal path, the harmonics and fundamentals can fall out of alignment as a result of what is called "group delay" or a bit of frequency-dependent time lag introduced by capacitors and other stuff. When the signal is a simple isolated one, it poses no problem. When what you are trying to listen to is coming from multiple sources that are rich in harmonics, though, the sorting of which high frequencies go with the violins and which go with the mandolin, which with the singer, which with the drummer playing with brushes, and so on, gets really, really hard.

The analogy I like to use is this. Imagine you were looking for a friend's face in a group photo like, say, your high school graduation class. Now, imagine that the nose of everyone in the picture was doctored to be a 1/2" to the right, and everyone's mouth was digitally doctored to be 1/2" to the left. Could you easily identify your best friend in that picture? Not with any ease and maybe not even at all, even though you know that person's face like the back of your own hand.

What the BBE process essentially does is divide the spectrum up into ranges and impose a sort of compensatory delay so that the top, middle and bottom are once again lined up with each other. As an analog process, I doubt that it could be precise enough to realign things flawlessly, but it works well enough to make a decided improvement.

So, like I say, that sort of box can do wonders in the right context, but not every player works in that context, so consider it a specialized tool rather than a sort of generic effect that works well for everyone regardless of what they play or how.

The one qualification I'd make to that is that, regardless of what you play or what style of music, if you have a PA speaker system with a passive crossover in the cab itself, a BBE device can be very useful for correcting the slight phase lag between drivers. Or, you can simply separate the woofer, midrange and tweeters and move them around. You'd be shocked at how big a difference in sonic quality it can make just to space your tweeters a little higher from your woofer.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Look for a Boss DF-2- They don't make them anymore--but I've seen them for sale used (Mine isn't) Ont he other hand your computer probably does what the pedal does--that is--hold it down & the note keeps ringing-you can unplug the guitar--it keeps ringing. Turn off & unplug everything other than the pedal--and turn it back on--the notes is still there.

Cool stuff.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

zontar said:


> Look for a Boss DF-2- They don't make them anymore--but I've seen them for sale used (Mine isn't) Ont he other hand your computer probably does what the pedal does--that is--hold it down & the note keeps ringing-you can unplug the guitar--it keeps ringing. Turn off & unplug everything other than the pedal--and turn it back on--the notes is still there.
> 
> Cool stuff.


I've got one too. Okay for what it does, but you've heard *much* better distortions, let me assure you. Happily, the distortion portion can be easily modded/tailored to sound more interesting. I do believe that Behringer released a cheap clone of the DF-2 last year. As well, the Line 6 Dr. Distorto was their attempt to take the basic DF-2 concept and hike it up a notch by controlling the fade-in/out time and using digital pitch-tracking instead of a less-precise PLL chip (phase-locked loop) as used in the DF-2.

If aural chaos is your taste, the "devices" from Metasonix ( http://www.metasonix.com/ ) may be of interest, although I have no idea if they fit within the price range you noted. The names of these things may not be the sort of thing you want to leave around the house for grandma to find, but they certainly have a tendency to take you for a blindfolded stroll deep into the woods.


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## Vincent (Nov 24, 2007)

Ive heard that the Electro-Harmonix Nano Pocket Metal Muff Distortion Pedal is a really good distortion pedal.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ElectroHarmonix-Nano-Pocket-Metal-Muff-Distortion-?sku=150099

I use MXR pedals and you might want to check them out as well...click on a pedal and rock this sound.
http://www.jimdunlop.com/index.php?page=products/p_and_e_detail&cat=16


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

These are also pretty wild. A sort of fuzz/ringmod/random arpeggeator with a gate:
http://www.subdecay.com/nb.htm

Are you looking for crazy noisemaker like this or are you just looking for some solid tones?


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## a Pack of Wolves (Sep 5, 2007)

do you mean something along the lines of mogwai or sonic youth
(perhaps canada's sianspheric or newish "tripsters" besnard lakes?)

depends on what yer going fer

being firmly foot in "noise land" myself
i'd say
start off with some basics

1-overdrives,distortions or fuzz (think pro-co rat,e.h. big muff,ibanez tube screamer,or any of the new z-vex ones,and old m.x.r units,maybe a boss metalzone ) 
2- a delay (analog or digital)
3- some kind of modulation(chorus,phaser or flanger)
4- a volume pedal (for swells,very important in experimental music to be able 
to play with the dynamic of yer volume on the fly) 
5- maybe a reverb pedal 
6- maybe even a wah (not really a highly used thing in noise genre,although it has great possibilities)
7- think about a whammy pedal (well after you have some basic items first)
8- very simple boost pedals can do alot in terms of giving you variety if yer pushing a tube amp

*generally i avoid multi effects floor units

noise/ambient/improvised stuff involves alot of real time tweaking and you need old school knobs fer that

generally i'd say check used pedals and stuff in stores (to see if you dig them)
try them out hands on
don't just go by what cats say on the a message board

lots of cats into noisier screamo (and emo) genres are big on mass market giants boss and digitech

you can't go wrong with boss stuff (and e.h. stuff have some great units) as do some digitech things

start with a few things you really dig and go from there

you don't have to go nuts with 'number of items'
just go fer what works fer you

start w/ disortion, overdrive, fuzz and boosts
********************

another point to think about is yer amp

noise cats often go fer something you wouldn't expect in terms of an amp
part of creating yer own unique sonic sound and vibe

again look at used stuff in yer area 
tube or solid state (whatever sound you dig from whatever amp you dig)

one of the things to consider is your need to have an amp that is loud enough to simply be noisy

a "one speaker" amp is probably not going to do it fer ya
-okay some of the new traynor tube deals would work very well-

-digital (line 6 type) amp probably won't have the volume you need 


yer amp have to be able to play with feedback and still be musical, if that makes sense

*******************************************
another very important thing to fiddle with is alternate tunings
(not just drop d)

----------------------------------

blah blah blah


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

mhammer said:


> I've got one too. Okay for what it does, but you've heard *much* better distortions, let me assure you. Happily, the distortion portion can be easily modded/tailored to sound more interesting. I do believe that Behringer released a cheap clone of the DF-2 last year.


I have to disagree, I've never heard another pedal that suits me btter--but then, like all gear it depends on your musical tastes, the sounds you want, the guitars and amps you'd use it with, the other effects you use, your playing style, the music you play, etc. So for me--it's the best sound. I love the warm fuzz and the sharp tone as well. 

There are other distortions/overdrives I like the sound of, (I have a DOD FX-53 Classic Tube-very warm sound), but many sound like they're choking the guitar, many sound too shrill, many are great for metal, but don't work for moist other styles.

So it's really personal that way.

Boss also used to make an envelope filter--I forget the name of it--it was in a light purple case--it sounded great too. I first saw them when I didn't have the spare cash--and when I did have the money. If you see something like that--or if anybody else knows the name--they're cool.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2008)

mhammer said:


> Folks who have a thing about making weird noises tend to also have a thing for Effector 13 pedals


I'm a big E13 fan. I've had a few of Devi's fuzzes through out the years. Currently have a Truly Beautiful Disaster here that I've yet to really get a handle on. They're very unique pedals. Not for everyone. Here's a glitchy little thing I did with the Effector 13 Disaster Fuzz:

http://ian.coastpedalboards.com/sounds/dflp.mp3

Moog Audio is a Canadian dealer for E13 pedals and good peoples too.



> (which I note are coming in ever more professional-looking boxes; must be a sign that business is good)


Devi signed up with Oh La La Manufacturing which has helped QC and availability quite a bit.

If you're not ready to part with a lot of cash you can check out the MXR Blue Box. It's a synth-like fuzz that does some cool, random glitchy things. Can be had really cheap on the used market. People get 'em, can't figure them out and then turn them over for $25.

Subdecay also makes a bunch of beautiful noise boxes (one's even called The Noise Box...sic).

And if you're feeling Trent Rezor adventurous you can try his preferred brand for chaos: Metasonix (note: possible NSFW content [yea, I know, they make pedals...told you they were creators of chaos, right?])

Edit: A fudge. Now that I've actually read through the thread it looks like everyone beat me to these. Ah well, I had a clip, that's worth chiming in for, right? :wink:


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

iaresee said:


> I'm a big E13 fan. I've had a few of Devi's fuzzes through out the years. Currently have a Truly Beautiful Disaster here that I've yet to really get a handle on. They're very unique pedals. Not for everyone. Here's a glitchy little thing I did with the Effector 13 Disaster Fuzz:
> 
> http://ian.coastpedalboards.com/sounds/dflp.mp3


Sorry, I dont have anything to add on noise pedals, but I really enjoyed that little clip above - great stuff. Is that just the knobs on the pedal being manipulated, or did you add some additional processing on the recording?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Ian is certainly right about the Blue Box. Indeed, a great many octave-down boxes tend to privide less predictable behaviour than many of their purchasers were expecting. With the exception of the EHX POG, MicroPOG, and similar digital units, octave-down boxes are hopelessly monophonic and hopelessly finicky about what kind of picking leads them confidently to identify the pitch of the note and divide it in nonsputtery fashion. So, the general recommendation to think about octave-divider boxes is probably a good one.

At the other end of the spectrum, octave-*up* fuzzes can be used in very creative ways. I'm a big fan of the Foxx Tone Machine, and if you like the playing of Adrian Belew, you probably are too, even if you didn't know it. Happily, the generally inexpensive Danelectro French Toast pedal is a clone of the FTM.

One of the properties of many of those types of fuzzes - the FTM, Univox Superfuzz, Kay Fuzz, Ibanez Standard Fuzz, Shin-Ei Fuzz, Fender Blender, Tychobrahe Octavia, Armstrong Green Ringer, etc. - is that the means whereby the octave-doubling is produced introduces a slight amount of sideband product when bending strings. In beginners' terms, they sound like ring modulators for a moment when you change the pitch of a string too rapidly (that's why the bare-bones Dan Armstrong octave fuzz is called the "Green *Ringer*"). So, that's kind of a nice add-on feature in that you can get/introduce ring-modulation-like tones when you want them on a riff-wise or note-wise basis.

The Ampeg Scrambler is a delightful little noisemaker that also falls into the octave-up fuzz category, but is decidedly ruder. ( http://www.tonefrenzy.com/effects/ampeg_scrambler.html ). It lets you adjust the balance between a slightly crunchy boosted sound and the over-the-top octave fuzz, as well as how over-the-top the octaving/rectifying gets. Though off the market for years, it was reissued for a while, and a host of DIY kits and layouts have sprung up. Layouts for a DIY version are available at www.tonepad.com and www.generalguitargadgets.com.

I made myself one, and found that it had several shortcomings, one of which was the inability to adjust the sensitivity of the unit, and the inability to adjust output level. My solution was to make myself something I coyly refer to as a "D-Scrambler" that contains what is essentially a modded MXR Distortion+ as the front end, followed by the Scrambler circuit. The Gain control of the Dist+ serves to adjust the tone quality, and degree of sustain of the signal fed to the octave fuzz portion. The Dist+ volume pot also serves to adjust how hard the octave portion is driven, and provides the perk of being able to vary overall output level.

The other nice thing about this 4-knobber (fits easily in a small box) comes in the range of tones available from it. I can get an ever-so-slightly colored volume boost, the straight Dist+ crunch, as well as hints of pleasing octave, the standard Scrambler sound, and sounds even ruder than the stock Scrambler when I feed it a hot distorted input and crank the texture. We're talking about sounds that "cave in" on themselves. Can't speak highly enough about it.

All of which leads me to point out that virtually ANY distortion device can be made to behave in a near psychotic manner simply by feeding it a signal that is hotter than normal. I have a couple of Shin-Ei FY-2 Companion fuzzes (original and clone) and both misbehave when fed a very hot signal. That hot signal could be from a compressor, a clean booster, or even a 2nd overdrive just ahead of it. Just think of the multiple pedals as one big circuit split over 2 chassis and you'll be alright.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Jeff Tweedy from Wilco uses the Total Sonic Annihilation pedal on a couple of his noiser tracks. It's basically an effect multiplier. It takes whatever is in your chain and runs it through itself again and again, each time adding all the effects to the signal over and over again. Here's a review that explains it better than I do.

http://guitargeek.com/reviews/dba_total_sonic.php

Also, Scott at http://www.axeandyoushallreceive.com has one, but he hasn't listed a price for it. From what I understand, though I haven't actually tried this pedal myself, it should be just what you're looking for. :rockon:


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2008)

bagpipe said:


> Sorry, I dont have anything to add on noise pedals, but I really enjoyed that little clip above - great stuff. Is that just the knobs on the pedal being manipulated, or did you add some additional processing on the recording?


Thanks. That was a PRS -> Disaster Fuzz -> Morley Bad Horsie 2 Wah -> Koch. The DF has this self oscillation thing that happens and you can control it with the volume knob on the guitar and the fuzz -> wah just did weird things. So it's a combination of volume knob twiddling and wah rocking.

No additional processing what so ever on any of the tracks.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2008)

mhammer said:


> The Ampeg Scrambler is a delightful little noisemaker ... I made myself one, and found that it had several shortcomings, one of which was the inability to adjust the sensitivity of the unit, and the inability to adjust output level. My solution was to make myself something I coyly refer to as a "D-Scrambler" that contains what is essentially a modded MXR Distortion+ as the front end, followed by the Scrambler circuit.


That's really genius. The Scrambler was a noise box that really was quite disappointing for me. I never thought to run it post-distortion or OD though. I only tried it out in front assuming it was fuzz-finicky.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I'll loan it to ya at some point. You'll have a hard time giving it back. lofu

There's lots of boxes that would benefit greatly by having a slightly different front end, or output stage....or both. Plenty of stuff gets to market before the designer has a chance to think and say "Nah, it needs a little more".

This is one of the reasons why I almost always recommend building a passive loop selector for folks wanting to get into DIY. You will NEVER outgrow the need for a switch that lets you engage two or three pedals in one motion for a sound that requires their joint properties/action....because companies will never stop producing pedals that were ALMOST ready but overlooked something that another pedal had to be used to do.

In a recent thread on the diy stompbox forum, I suggested that one ought to plan fuzz and distortion pedals with an order flipper switch on board and an external loop, so that you could stick your EQ or wah or phaser or uni-vibe or autofilter before the fuzz or after it, merely by hitting the switch. Since so many instances of "before or after?" appear to involve a distortion, why not just build the damn capability into the pedal? Sure, you can always have an outboard device that you can use for that, but why take up valuable pedalboard real estate when all it needs is a place for two jacks and a switch in an existing pedal that has some "room for rent"?


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