# Rotary pedal



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I've always loved the sound of that guitar on the stones song below. What would be the best pedal that could nail that song? A few recommendations in the not overly expensive and a recommendation for a "Money no object" category.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

hughes and kettner rotosphere mk2


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

Inexpensive but will do the job: Hardwire TR-7 (rotary/trem)


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Swervin55 said:


> Inexpensive but will do the job: Hardwire TR-7 (rotary/trem)


I was quite impressed with those


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

This has a very good Rotary, Boss VF-1. It also has a few other really good tricks.

Boss VF-1 24 bit multi-effects processor | Pro Audio & Recording Equipment | Guelph | Kijiji


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Line 6 Tone Core Rotomachine, and the Behringer clone of it (RM600 Rotary Machine) are both pretty decent.

Pretty much any rotary emulator will sound like an improved chorus or flanger when used in mono. Use them in stereo and they come alive, capturing the spatial swirl of an actual rotating speaker.

Almost any of the dual-keyboard console organs you'll see advertised on Kijiji for a low price, or "free to a good home; must pick up", contains a rotating speaker underneath. I've built two of them into cabs, and they sound _*wonderful*_. There are three caveats:
1) You'll have to build your own cabinet for it and make your own speed switch.
2) Due to the design of the belt-drive mechanism it can only be installed to rotate on the vertical axis; up-down rather than around from one side to the other.
3) The 8" speaker it comes with is rated at around 20W power handling. I find it loud enough, but understand it might not be loud enough for everyone.


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## fernieite (Oct 30, 2006)

Like Mark said, the line 6 Rotomachine is quite decent, and not that expensive.
I had one years ago, but replaced it with the big box Neo Ventilator.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

fernieite said:


> Like Mark said, the line 6 Rotomachine is quite decent, and not that expensive.
> I had one years ago, but replaced it with the big box Neo Ventilator.


The big box neo pissed me off. So many obvious design flaws.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Cheap? This. 



Expensive? This.


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

That Strymon Lex sounds very close to a Leslie and is pretty intriguing. The Danelectro sounds like poo, but I guess you gets what you pays for as they say...


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## bluehugh2 (Mar 10, 2006)

I’ve been through them ALL! For me the Neo Ventilator won hands down... now I use the Neo Mini-Vent... smaller! And they came out with a Micro Vent! Also to be noted, you need a 12volt input on your power source AND the cable must be reversed + and - ... however, once you sort that out, Nothing comes close IMHO!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Listening to the OP's clip, I'd buy a cheap univibe clone or something similar. That guitar sound wouldn't take an expensive boutique rotary effect to replicate.

I'm not knocking it but it doesn't sound like a real Leslie or anything like that at least to me.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Listening to the OP's clip, I'd buy a cheap univibe clone or something similar. That guitar sound wouldn't take an expensive boutique rotary effect to replicate.
> 
> I'm not knocking it but it doesn't sound like a real Leslie or anything like that at least to me.


Like others here, I mistakenly went with the thread header, without listening to the actual song., thinking "Well, I _know_ what a rotary speaker sounds like, I don't have to hear an example".

After listening, based on your post, I think you may be right. It could well be something other than a rotating speaker. The sweep waveform and sweep width have to be just right, and not all phasers, vibes, or flangers can nail it, but some can, so it may be one of those.

Having said that, taking into account the historic period when it was recorded, and what equipment would have been available (assorted periods from June 1970 to March 1972), the only really likely suspect is the Uni-Vibe, or one of its Shin-Ei precursors (e.g., Resley-tone). Certainly the MXR Phase 90 was not in production until after the album came out, and there would have been no flangers. The Fender Vibratone (Fender Vibratone - Wikipedia ) can probably be included as a likely suspect, since it only uses one speaker and not the independently spinning horn and woofer of the larger Leslies. As one can hear, the "wobble" of the guitar on the track is not complex enough to suggest an actual dual-driver Leslie.

Once again, I draw your attention to the home organ guts, which ARE a true scaled-down Vibratone.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Yes, it sounds like a garden variety Univibe to me, which is a good sound, but not hard to replicate.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Does not sound like a triangle-wave LFO to me. Uni-vibes and workalikes use a different LFO waveform than a phaser, more sinusoidal. Like I say, if you have the right sweep waveform, and can adjust the width of the sweep, so that it is a gentler wiggle, I think your suggestion of a vibe can nail it, or come VERY close to that sound.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Sounds more like a partially phased/flanged Univibe than a Leslie to me. Pretty sure I could nail that with my VFE Enterprise aka the VFE Tractor Beam


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Having said that, taking into account the historic period when it was recorded, and what equipment would have been available (assorted periods from June 1970 to March 1972), the only really likely suspect is the Uni-Vibe, or one of its Shin-Ei precursors (e.g., Resley-tone). Certainly the MXR Phase 90 was not in production until after the album came out, and there would have been no flangers. T*he Fender Vibratone (Fender Vibratone - Wikipedia )* can probably be included as a likely suspect, since it only uses one speaker and not the independently spinning horn and woofer of the larger Leslies. As one can hear, the "wobble" of the guitar on the track is not complex enough to suggest an actual dual-driver Leslie.
> 
> Once again, I draw your attention to the home organ guts, which ARE a true scaled-down Vibratone.


YES!! Where can I get one of those?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> YES!! Where can I get one of those?


No Univibe ever sounded that good.

Very nice. Love the slow rotor sound.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

The Shin EI nails it so I am going with that. Mentioned at 2:50 in the Univibe video I posted. According to Josh the Univibe is a cross between a phaser and a chorus but is neither. Its a univibe


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

gtone said:


> The Danelectro sounds like poo,





Milkman said:


> Listening to the OP's clip


But as @Milkman & @mhammer said, OP was looking for "that" sound.
Andy Danelectro covers that sound in the clip.
Hear the Stones, then the first bit........


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

bluehugh2 said:


> I’ve been through them ALL! For me the Neo Ventilator won hands down... now I use the Neo Mini-Vent... smaller! And they came out with a Micro Vent! Also to be noted, you need a 12volt input on your power source AND the cable must be reversed + and - ... however, once you sort that out, Nothing comes close IMHO!
> View attachment 304248


According to what I'm hearing on youtube videos I think you are right. Am I going to need 2 amps to run in stereo or can most of the effect be realized through one amp?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> According to what I'm hearing on youtube videos I think you are right. Am I going to need 2 amps to run in stereo or can most of the effect be realized through one amp?


two amps on these sorts of things is magical


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Milkman said:


> No Univibe ever sounded that good.
> 
> Very nice. Love the slow rotor sound.


Tim Larwill, who makes the Retro-Sonic pedals, and makes a very nice critically-praised clone of the original CE-1, even going so far as to source the long-out-of-production MN3001 chips it used, came over to the house some years back. As we were chatting, I asked him if he had ever used a rotating speaker, and he said "No". I insisted that it was something every guitar player owed it to themselves to try at least once before they die. So I set up my tweed Princeton driving the spinning cab I had made from the guts of an organ (graciously given to me by Phil Bova). I'm pretty sure Tim left some of his jaw on the floor of my workshop after he left. He _thought_ he knew what chorus was supposed to sound like, but quickly realized this was a cut above.

This is what the innards of any of those spinning units in a home organ looks like. I don't know if I was the first to refer to them as "cheesewheel", but I know it was early in the game. You can see the styrofam baffle (that looks like a wheel of cheese because of the colour), and the two-speed motor off to the right that moves the drive belt. Although the video shows it operating on the horizontal plane, the drive belt can "choke" and not work if not perfectly adjusted, whereas it always works when oriented vertically. The Vibratone Youtube shows a Fender amp beside the unit, because, unlike Leslies, Vibratone cabs are unpowered.  You have to use an outside amp. Footswitch-control of speaker output is a complicated and sometimes risky affair. Best to commit an amp to driving it, as opposed to trying to switch between internal speaker of a combo amp and vibratone cab as external speaker.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

vadsy said:


> two amps on these sorts of things is magical


Correct. Unless one is listening to an actual rotating speaker throwing the sound around, the only way to duplicate it electronically is to use two amplifiers. If the pedal is well designed, it will provide two outputs and continuously pan the effect to simulate a moving sound source. Going from mono to stereo with one of these units is an epiphany. And that's also where the Dano Big Spender comes up short. The ramp-up/down is a great feature and intrinsic part of how rotators are used by B3 players, but the spatial swirl is what makes it.


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## fernieite (Oct 30, 2006)

Fwiw, the Stones Gear book states on page 367 that a *Fender Vibratone* was used on the "Let it Loose" track. B#(*


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Hah!! Vindicated!

Thank you.


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## Brian Johnston (Feb 24, 2019)

guitarman2 said:


> According to what I'm hearing on youtube videos I think you are right. Am I going to need 2 amps to run in stereo or can most of the effect be realized through one amp?


They soon will be releasing two smaller pedal-sized pedals. One is meant for guitar, whereas the other (although meant for guitar) mimics a particular Leslie speaker. Pretty sure its on the site.


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## Jim Jones (Sep 18, 2006)

That’s a fast Leslie in the Stones clip but you can likely get something close enough from virtually any chorus pedal. It’s the slow Leslie speed (Chorale), that only the “good” Leslie sims can deliver. IMHO and all that...


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Got this Garnet Shin-Ei RT-18 that does all types of great sounds...


Great demos here for the pedal:


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## fernieite (Oct 30, 2006)

Cool Hendrix feel in the second video. I kept wishing he'd step on a wah once in a while though!


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Milkman said:


> No Univibe ever sounded that good.
> 
> Very nice. Love the slow rotor sound.


I will own a Vibratone at some point. One came up for sale in NS last year, but I didn't have the cash to swing it.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

If you don't mind larger pedals, you can go with the maximum tonal experience like I did with a Leslie 925 !


A nice demo on youtube:


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I have to ask, do you use velcro or cable ties to secure them to your pedalboard?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

cboutilier said:


> I will own a Vibratone at some point. One came up for sale in NS last year, but I didn't have the cash to swing it.


Do you remember what it was going for and what kind of condition it was in?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Like I keep saying, there's one in almost 3 or 4 out of 5 of those dual-keyboard home organsyou see going for $100 or even much less on Kijiji. For whatever reasons, those parlour organs sitting up against the living-room wall, with the cha-cha- and rhumba auto-drummer settings, were a big thing for that generation that is currently moving into nursing homes, so the kids are selling off or giving away the house contents. Yes, the seller will insist that you pick it up and cart it away. But often the price will be too good to resist. And it's not THAT hard to excise and cab it up. Really. Probably a whole lot easier than waiting for a commercial Vibratone to come up for sale. The hardest part for many will probably be fitting the thing into your vehicle to cart away. I doubt the seller will allow you to gut it on the premises and leave the rest of the carcass at the curb.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

mhammer said:


> I have to ask, do you use velcro or cable ties to secure them to your pedalboard?


The weight does the trick !


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It's the reaching around to get at your wah that's the tricky part, I suppose.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

mhammer said:


> Does not sound like a triangle-wave LFO to me. Uni-vibes and workalikes use a different LFO waveform than a phaser, more sinusoidal. Like I say, if you have the right sweep waveform, and can adjust the width of the sweep, so that it is a gentler wiggle, I think your suggestion of a vibe can nail it, or come VERY close to that sound.


Let It Loose (song) - Wikipedia


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

fernieite said:


> Fwiw, the Stones Gear book states on page 367 that a *Fender Vibratone* was used on the "Let it Loose" track. B#(*


Vibratone Songs


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

So it will be a few months before I settle on which rotary pedal I want. Just watched some youtube videos of the Fender Pinwheel that were impressive.
It seems though that the best way to get the most out of a rotary pedal is a second amp and run in stereo. So I have a question for those that may have been down this path. Since I've got $4,500 tied up in my main amp there is no way I'm going to spend that on a second amp.
So just wondering how effective a cheap second amp is, in a stereo configuration. Would a solid state amp suffice or a dirt cheap tube amp or am I just sacrificing too much? I might be able to scrounge up $800 to 1k for a second amp. Should it be similarly voiced to my main amp?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

If the second amp is not going to be your primary sound, and only comes into play for spatial-swirl sounds, then solid state is perfectly fine. It doesn't have to sound fabulous. All it has to do is put the sound "over there" for a bit.

But I'll say that you should probably try a rotary pedal out with a two-amp setup first, before committing to it. Personally, I think the rotary effect really only comes alive with a stereo setup, but that's *me*. It may be that the sounds you want are perfectly acceptable with a single amp.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

Get a Katana 50 for the second amp.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Merlin said:


> Get a Katana 50 for the second amp.


That might not be a bad idea. About a year and half ago I played a gig with a steel player using a Katana 50 and it sounded pretty good.


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