# Corona Virus outbreak.



## Dorian2

Just heard about this. Yikes.


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## silvertonebetty

Dorian2 said:


> Just heard about this. Yikes.


I don’t let stuff like this bother me. Besides I cannot take vaccines so yeah . I could die from the vaccine or die from the virus 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wardo

If you're born to be hung you'll never be drowned.


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## Chitmo

80,000 people a year die from the flu, this is minor details.


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## butterknucket

I'm not worried one bit.


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## jdto

Meh. It’s more about clicks on news sites than an actual threat


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## sulphur

I don't drink, so I should be good.


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## butterknucket

I drink, but it's probably been twenty years or more since I've had a Corona. I'll try to keep it that way.


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## Guncho

My sister lives in China but was on vacation in India when this broke out. Her employer wants all teachers to return by Feb 3 and home quarantine for two weeks before school starts again. They are offering $1000 to teachers who return.


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## Doug Gifford

It's a little like following somebody else's weather. Nothing to do for it so it's hard to engage. It's either a blip or really serious and on its way into my life. Nothing I can do to change it either way. "The News" is distraction mostly.


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## Dorian2

After watching the video it didn't seem like they gave any real info on anything really. I wasn't even aware it was flu based. Hope this thread doesn't come across as Howard Hugh waxing and waning about a couple of germs. It doesn't come across as any real news at this point.


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## Wardo

A lot of other medical sources are saying asymptomatic contagion but the Canadian doctor at the end of the Global piece was trying to minimize that. 

I think it’s a very significant concern that is being minimized in the media.


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## Doug Gifford

Wardo said:


> A lot of other medical sources are saying asymptomatic contagion but the Canadian doctor at the end of the Global piece was trying to minimize that.
> 
> I think it’s a very significant concern that is being minimized in the media.


When there's a perceived existential threat to the nation (i.e. WWI/II), the media have always done what the government told them to do. And people have always deemed that acceptable. As far as I know.


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## jb welder

While the comment earlier about the usual number of flu deaths per year is valid, this thing is just starting. So it could end up a hiccup, or a world-wide threat, we don't really know yet.
Looking at the kind of lock-downs going on, and travel restrictions, I'm inclined to agree with Wardo that they may be minimizing it to stop people from panicking. 

As serious as it is, this cracked me up. Real pic from Vancouver airport. DIY haz-something or other. Everyone around is cracking up too.


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## Dorian2

But he's still staring at his phone. ha


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## mhammer

Wardo said:


> A lot of other medical sources are saying asymptomatic contagion but the Canadian doctor at the end of the Global piece was trying to minimize that.
> 
> I think it’s a very significant concern that is being minimized in the media.


I don't think it is being _minimized_ in mainstream media, but I do think there are efforts to work against the exaggerations and fear-mongering in "alternative" news sources and social media that have resulted in the sort of things like wearing a water bottle over your head.

The pendulum swings back and forth. It's worth attending to, but not panicking over. The official concern is not so much about widespread and rapid contagion (which isn't happening) but because the virus has only very recently been identified, so there isn't much available in the way of knowledge about symptoms, treatment, prognosis. Most public health efforts are being prudently directed at regions of very high populations density and confined quarters with shared air (e.g., airplanes). If you live in Canada, and aren't on an airplane you're probably okay.


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## GuitarsCanada




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## GuitarsCanada

The WHO has called an emergency meeting for today to consider for a second time whether to issue a formal "Worldwide Pandemic" designation on this. I would be very shocked if that did not happen today.


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## allthumbs56

GuitarsCanada said:


>


So doubling every two days.

Anybody remember the little game where you tell somebody you'll give them a million dollars and all they have to do is give you $1 back the first day, $2 the next, $4 the next - and so on for the next 30 days. On the 30th day they have to give you $536,870,912.00.

This is not encouraging. The only practical steps are isolation and avoidance.


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## mawmow

In 2009, every public organization here was preparing for the coming H1N1 pandemia :
The aim was to avoid public services paralysis. Did not see the pandemia !

As of yesterday, China got some 167 death on some 7000 persons declared infected : Some 2,4% death rate so far.
This number will most probably increase, but it is not Ebola, nor SRAS rates as I can remember.

I read Flu complications would kill 280.000 people worldwide every year.
Never got a flu shot, but never went in arena where 4.000 persons talk and shout for two hours.

There is a new TV series here (in French) : "Pandemie". The timing could not be more or badly timed !
Add on : the show name is Epidemie (I do not listen to this damned TV quite much).

Let the media make bacon out of any outbreak : Just keep playing your guitar !


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## laristotle

Update map
Operations Dashboard for ArcGIS


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## Distortion

And the Canadian gov. is flying people home with no mention of a quarantine. Brilliant.


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## Electraglide

Sounds like the gov't will be bringing some Canadians back, all on one plane and they'll probably go through a quarantine process here. That's better than having them just jump on random flights un-checked and just landing anywhere. Anyway, next week Kate or someone will buy new shoes and the world will change.


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## allthumbs56

Electraglide said:


> Anyway, next week Kate or someone will buy new shoes and the world will change.


Yup - right now no one is talking about Australia or Climate Change.

i do think that this will get worse before it gets better - but if we can keep it on the other side of the planet then, yeah - our attention span is pretty short.


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## GuitarsCanada

The WHO just called it. It is now a world wide health crisis.


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## jb welder

mawmow said:


> As of yesterday, China got some 167 death on some 7000 persons declared infected : Some 2,4% death rate so far.
> This number will most probably increase, but it is not Ebola, nor SRAS rates as I can remember.
> 
> I read Flu complications would kill 280.000 people worldwide every year.


This year so far, flu has killed 8200 out of 15 million cases. That is 0.05% death rate compared to the 2.4% you quoted for coronavirus.
If coronavirus were no worse than flu, only about 4 people should have died so far.
Of course, we don't know yet how many people are really infected, but that is a rough idea of the numbers as they stand right now.


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## mhammer

It's important to consider the size of the Chinese population (around 1.4 billion). As a proportion of the population substantially more people have pneumonia AND die of it that either contract corona virus and succumb to it.

I will note that one of the single biggest sources of world-wide improvements in life expectancy and especially child mortality was physician Ignaz Semmelweiss ( Ignaz Semmelweis - Wikipedia ) who simply noted that doctors failed to wash their hands between patients, and urged health professionals to simply clean up on a regular basis. Most contagious disease specialists this week are encouraging folks to do that very thing.


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## colchar

Dorian2 said:


> Just heard about this. Yikes.



You just heard about this yesterday?? It is literally the biggest news story in the world right now, and has been for a couple of weeks.

https://guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/wuhan-coronavirus-how-safe-are-we.251344/


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## colchar

silvertonebetty said:


> I don’t let stuff like this bother me. Besides I cannot take vaccines so yeah . I could die from the vaccine or die from the virus
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Since they don't have a vaccine yet, why do you think you would die from it?


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## colchar

mhammer said:


> It's important to consider the size of the Chinese population (around 1.4 billion). As a proportion of the population substantially more people have pneumonia AND die of it that either contract corona virus and succumb to it.


Their overall population is irrelevant when it comes to deaths. What matters is the percentage of those who contract this who die. Right now, its death rate is higher than the flu, SARS, Bird Flu, etc.


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## colchar

I wonder how long it will be until that Swedish meatball Greta is told by her handlers to blame this on climate change?


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## Dorian2

colchar said:


> You just heard about this yesterday?? It is literally the biggest news story in the world right now, and has been for a couple of weeks.
> 
> https://guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/wuhan-coronavirus-how-safe-are-we.251344/


I don't tend to follow the news much.


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## Electraglide

colchar said:


> You just heard about this yesterday?? It is literally the biggest news story in the world right now, and has been for a couple of weeks.
> 
> https://guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/wuhan-coronavirus-show-safe-are-we.251344/


First I heard about it was when this thread started too. So. As for the link you provided that's in the political forum so I wouldn't see it. As far as the biggest news story, I thought that was Kobe Bryant or the superbowel or some people who left the royal family....or an earthquake or volcano. Every year or two there seems to be a new disease coming from the Orient or Africa....we're still here. 


allthumbs56 said:


> Yup - right now no one is talking about Australia.


Family in Australia don't seem to be as concerned as the western world. What they are concerned with, in regards to the fire, are things like mittens for Koalas.....they're useless and the have too many so quit sending them. Koalas can't wear them.


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## mhammer

colchar said:


> Their overall population is irrelevant when it comes to deaths. What matters is the percentage of those who contract this who die. Right now, its death rate is higher than the flu, SARS, Bird Flu, etc.


Fair point, but I mention the population size in response to posted stats about number infected. If you heard 7000 people n Canada contracted a disease, you'd be justifiably alarmed, especially given how far apart the majority of Canadians live from each other. Yes, for the moment, the mortality rate seems high. But then, as a virus in the catalog of viruses, it was largely an unknown quantity a mere few weeks ago with no easily discernible presenting symptoms, no known treatment or prognosis, and no familiarity with respect to risk factors, or trajectory from the point of first confirmation. That's why I say "for the moment". 

Bear in mind that we only really came to be able to identify legionella bacteria following a singular nasty outbreak at an American Legion convention at a particular hotel some years back (hence the name of the bacterium and disease). It had never been previously recognized because it has a peculiar staining property: it doesn't pick up stain, or at least the stains routinely used at that time for clinical diagnostic bacterial cultures. We've since learned that a great many people are walking around carrying legionella, but are completely asymptomatic and problem-free. Some folks do get seriously ill from it and die, but once you begin to consider the baseline of everyone who harbours the bacterium, and proportion of those who actually get sick, it isn't really that big a "killer". 

The same may very well be true of coronavirus. I'm not saying "it's nothing". Rather, we are very early in the stages of understanding the thing, being able to diagnose it, being able to treat it, and knowing anything about how it proliferates It might be another ebola-like pandemic, but may also be something substantially less problematic and more easily controllable. The alarms going off at the moment are a suitable strategy for halting something that _might_ be serious. I don't blame the W.H.O. for pointing their rifle and shouting "Halt! Who goes there!?". Could be an enemy, but might also end up being mostly harmless.


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## Electraglide

To possibly put things in perspective, there are more people in China now than there was in the world in 1918. 1/5th of the population caught that flu and an estimated 50,000,000 to 100,000,000 people died. 3% to 5% of the world population.


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## Milkman

This may seem like a secondary consideration but this is going to cause some serious problems for industry/manufacturing around the world.

Already my customers are launching inquiries and surveys asking if we have even tier two concerns.

Actually, we do.

Also, making things worse, is the fact that this is a holiday week in China.

It’s really tough getting any information out of our people and facilities there.

I know at least two Japanese friends who have visited the affected region in China within the past two months.

There’s just no way to keep it from spreading, As soon as a carrier steps on a plane....

What the hell are they talking about, checking other passengers three rows away.

It’s a flight FROM CHINA!

Everybody uses the washroom at least once or twice on a flight that long.

I guess there’s communicability and other science involved.


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## Distortion

Electraglide said:


> To possibly put things in perspective, there are more people in China now than there was in the world in 1918. 1/5th of the population caught that flu and an estimated 50,000,000 to 100,000,000 people died. 3% to 5% of the world population.


better hope you don't get it. They just let the elderly die in this country . Cuts down on CPP and Old Age pay outs. Also opens up beds in long term care facilities. Your number might be up E glide.


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## Electraglide

Distortion said:


> better hope you don't get it. They just let the elderly die in this country . Cuts down on CPP and Old Age pay outs. Also opens up beds in long term care facilities. Your number might be up E glide.


I'm going thru a shit load of tests right now and the care my country is giving this elderly person is probably a hell of a lot better than what you're paying big bucks for sunshine. That goes for a lot of the people I know too. We're taken care of. As far as getting this scare and dieing from it.....don't make me laugh. If my number is up soon it will be from a pissed off husband. BTW, I'm the one getting CPP and OAS/GIS and a few other gov't things. From what I understand, if you're under 58 you're paying for my enjoyment and you'd better have a good, private plan to retire on with really good medical. Another thing I heard from what's been sent out is that if you're working and paying into CPP etc. you're contributions on your paycheck are going to go up.


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## 1SweetRide

Here’s a scary graphic


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## colchar

Electraglide said:


> To possibly put things in perspective, there are more people in China now than there was in the world in 1918. 1/5th of the population caught that flu and an estimated 50,000,000 to 100,000,000 people died. 3% to 5% of the world population.



And that flu was killing the young and otherwise healthy.


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## Electraglide

colchar said:


> And that flu was killing the young and otherwise healthy.


Along with the elderly and young children. It didn't discriminate.
The Influenza Epidemic of 1918
If you go to my great-grandfathers newspaper office at the museum in Austin Manitoba you'll see quarantine posters they printed up for the flu. 
Here's some more interesting facts. 
Vignettes from a pre-immunization Canada as childhood vaccination rates plummet


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## 1SweetRide

Electraglide said:


> Along with the elderly and young children. It didn't discriminate.
> The Influenza Epidemic of 1918
> If you go to my great-grandfathers newspaper office at the museum in Austin Manitoba you'll see quarantine posters they printed up for the flu.
> Here's some more interesting facts.
> Vignettes from a pre-immunization Canada as childhood vaccination rates plummet


Ouch


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## Milkman

1SweetRide said:


> Here’s a scary graphic
> 
> View attachment 291836


Is the caption for the bottom two images clipped for some reason?


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## GuitarsCanada

Milkman said:


> This may seem like a secondary consideration but this is going to cause some serious problems for industry/manufacturing around the world.
> 
> Already my customers are launching inquiries and surveys asking if we have even tier two concerns.
> 
> Actually, we do.
> 
> Also, making things worse, is the fact that this is a holiday week in China.
> 
> It’s really tough getting any information out of our people and facilities there.
> 
> I know at least two Japanese friends who have visited the affected region in China within the past two months.
> 
> There’s just no way to keep it from spreading, As soon as a carrier steps on a plane....
> 
> What the hell are they talking about, checking other passengers three rows away.
> 
> It’s a flight FROM CHINA!
> 
> Everybody uses the washroom at least once or twice on a flight that long.
> 
> I guess there’s communicability and other science involved.



Could be a major problem for auto biz Mike. The company I worked for has a foundry and machine shop in Wuhan, like so many other auto suppliers. Parts are going to start drying up


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## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> Could be a major problem for auto biz Mike. The company I worked for has a foundry and machine shop in Wuhan, like so many other auto suppliers. Parts are going to start drying up


Yeah it’s heating up quickly.

By Monday it will dominate our daily activities.


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## mawmow

In today's edition of La Presse : 
Some chinese and american people compare corona virus to Tchernobyl as truth was hidden.
The first cases of corona virus were witnessed by chinese physicians as soon as december 8th,
but 8 people, physician and others, trying to launch an alert were arrested, and 
reporters were intimidated... authorities launching the alert only December 30th.
It is said that truth was a victim. 

Now, though death rate seems to stand by 2% : Is there any personal contributing factor ?


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## 1SweetRide

Milkman said:


> Is the caption for the bottom two images clipped for some reason?


Just due to my inept screen capture skills.


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## 1SweetRide

GuitarsCanada said:


> Could be a major problem for auto biz Mike. The company I worked for has a foundry and machine shop in Wuhan, like so many other auto suppliers. Parts are going to start drying up


I have a relatively expensive product waiting for shipment from China. Been advised the factories are shut down and no production is taking place until at least Feb 9th. I'm not worried about my goods, just about the people.


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## allthumbs56

1SweetRide said:


> Here’s a scary graphic
> 
> View attachment 291836


Appears to be doubling every 2 days. The math is frightening:

Jan 30 7,000
Feb 1 14,000
Feb 3 28,000
Feb 5 56,000
Feb 7 112,000
Feb 9 224,000
Feb 11 448,000
Feb 13 896,000
Feb 15 1,792,000
Feb 17 3,584,000
Feb 19 7,168,000
Feb 21 14,336,000
Feb 23 28,672,000
Feb 25 57,344,000
Feb 27 114,688,000
Feb 29 229,376,000
Mar 2 458,752,000
Mar 4 917,504,000
Mar 6 1,835,008,000 
Mar 8 3,670,016,000
Mar 10 7,340,032,000

The Earth's population in 2019 was 7,577,130,400. At the current trend everybody on this planet could be infected in just over 40 days. If they find a vaccine it will take 3 years to make it readily available. Containment is essential.


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## JBFairthorne

As tragic as it may sound, globally, we NEED a plague. If you think those numbers are scary, search global population time lapse.


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## allthumbs56

JBFairthorne said:


> As tragic as it may sound, globally, we NEED a plague. If you think those numbers are scary, search global population time lapse.


"It's Nature's way of telling us - something's wrong ........."


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## mhammer

In the 1980's, when my wife worked as a medical lab tech at the university hospital in Edmonton, every single baby born in the hospital would be tested for syphilis. Not that they necessarily _suspected_ the babies or their mothers, and not that Edmonton was some sort of "ground zero" for the clap, but the automated system in which a drop of heel-poke blood was deposited was set up to automatically screen for a range of diseases that might conceivably occur in any given admitted patient, and syphilis was in that family of things that could be easily screened for and treated by that automated system, whatever age you happened to be, and whatever your reason for being admitted to the hospital. This also made it easier to know what the baseline rate of various background pathogens was in the admitted population, and estimate the rate in the general population.

Until about a month ago or so, nobody even knew of the very _existence _of this particular virus., which meant nobody was looking for it, whether automatically or because they suspected it. It was first identified because people came in sick in a novel way, and their health prompted looking for a viral or bacterial basis. resulting in health researchers stumbling onto it. Because nobody had known of its existence, there is no information about its background level among the general populace. It might be like anthrax, something that is and has always been out there, occasionally resulting in disease levels in livestock, but unlikely to ever go away, so you keep an eye out for it. It may be a mutation - viruses are like that - but there are new mutations every year, and we adapt. Bottom line is that people are not routinely tested for it, so we don't know if it is truly new, or actually fairly common and only this particular outbreak is new.

All of this it-doubles-every-two-days stuff assumes that:
a) the virus never existed anywhere on earth prior to the initial presenting cases,
b) the ONLY people in the world with the virus are those currently in hospital fighting for their lives, or already deceased,
c) no early diagnosis, public health initiatives, or treatments can stand in its way, as it continues like a juggernaut.

None of that is plausible. There are plenty of pathogens we walk around with every day, whether from a restaurant kitchen, your kid's daycare, the seat handle on the commuter ride to work, another student who sneezed on your desk before you came in for the class, a co-worker, or whatnot. The e coli alerts you see about food products result from food becoming potentially contaminated by a pathogen spread by people and animals who carried it around and weren't sick themselves. You're probably carrying it around right now yourself. People walk around with all manner of diseases that are not proliferating in their bodies to the point of manifesting in a disease state. 

One of the persistent fallacies in human reasoning is that we neglect baseline information about how often something actually occurs, and draw inferences from a selected set of salient events. At the risk of being more political than I wish to be, the entire gist of the gripe against gun-control laws is that millions upon millions own firearms, use them responsibly, lock them up when not in use, and have never harmed anyone or even contemplated doing so, such that taking policy action based on a few isolated incidents neglects baseline information. There is inherent logic to it, and it is _not_ misinformed. So clearly, we are not wholly _incapable_ of incorporating baseline information. More of us should do so more often about more things, like diseases.


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## Milkman

I have no immediate fears about an apocalyptic pandemic, but this is already heating up very quickly.

The supply chains for the most part won’t really dry up until March, but it will ultimately cost millions, maybe billions.

Even if they open the affected region up it will cause a major gap in the flow of materials and components which our factories over here are completely dependent on.


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## GuitarsCanada

I think its pretty safe to say that this virus is here to stay. It's not going to be stopped at this point. The only thing left to figure out is the amount of collateral damage it will cause not only in lives but in commerce and trade, travel industry, commodities. The list is endless.


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## mhammer

Interesting segment on today's episode of the CBC show The Cost of Living, about the potential economic ripple effects of the corona virus, particularly the impacts of various embargos, shutdowns, and such. Potentially beneficial implications for Canadian meat producers. Worth catching.
Germs, gambling and globalization — from the coronavirus to Brexit | CBC Radio


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## allthumbs56

mhammer said:


> All of this it-doubles-every-two-days stuff assumes that:
> a) the virus never existed anywhere on earth prior to the initial presenting cases,
> b) the ONLY people in the world with the virus are those currently in hospital fighting for their lives, or already deceased,
> c) no early diagnosis, public health initiatives, or treatments can stand in its way, as it continues like a juggernaut.


It assumes everything - except mathematics and a very short historical sampling. And that's all we've got right now. It also shows that if THAT trend continues there isn't exactly a lot of time to piss around and find the numbers that might make you happy.


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## laristotle

I'm sure that everything they make over there can be sourced here.
Oh wait .. all of our sources moved over there because westerners want it cheap.


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## 1SweetRide

GuitarsCanada said:


> I think its pretty safe to say that this virus is here to stay. It's not going to be stopped at this point. The only thing left to figure out is the amount of collateral damage it will cause not only in lives but in commerce and trade, travel industry, commodities. The list is endless.


Not necessarily. This virus is from the same family as SARS. SARS burned itself out and is gone.


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## mhammer

1SweetRide said:


> Not necessarily. This virus is from the same family as SARS. SARS burned itself out and is gone.


I don't know that it's _gone_. But it clearly isn't the public health crisis it was. Once we know what to look for, and who to look for it in, we're generally pretty good at managing such things. It's the initial entry that's problematic, when one doesn't have the requisite knowledge.

As I heard on CBC radio this morning, the meat supply in China comes from two basic sources: corporate packaged stuff, as found in supermarkets (_where_ there are supermarkets), and smaller-scale farmers selling their stuff in markets. Apparently, many Chinese citizens are a little wary of food safety, given many publicized instances of lax standards. As a result, many like to purchase their meat from "wet markets". These are markets where livestock are maintained and slaughtered fresh for the customer. I know when I was a youngster, I'd go with my grandfather to the By Ward market in Ottawa to buy live chickens, but you could buy a variety of live animals for consumption. Nobody slaughtered them for you, but the principle is the same: fresh as fresh can get.

Where the By Ward market of my youth was a broad open affair, with plenty of space, the Chinese wet markets are dense with many different species of animals for sale, and maintained in close quarters. Lord only knows what sorts of hygiene practices are engaged in by the vendors, or even feasible. The strong suspicion is that the virus is propogated via these wet markets. What some have suggested is that this may translate into mistrust of such meat sources, and that foreign producers (i.e., Canada and the U.S.) will take up the slack that Chinese domestic production cannot fill. Folks may remember that when China's pig production took a huge hit due to disease and mandatory culling of their pigs, suddenly China was less obstinate about importing Canadian pork.


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## GuitarsCanada

1SweetRide said:


> Not necessarily. This virus is from the same family as SARS. SARS burned itself out and is gone.


SARS is not gone, neither is MERS. They can go dormant through various means and they can come back. Each of them have their own unique features. This one is yet unknown lots to learn about it yet. But once the Genie get's out of the bottle it's almost impossible to get it back in. Way too early yet to predict the outcome on this one. But with 10,000 cases on the books and most likely thousands more out there not yet on the books, it's not going anywhere yet. It may, in time, just become another strain of the flu, one in a long list of them that we are faced with every year.


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## Guitar101

allthumbs56 said:


> Appears to be doubling every 2 days.
> _The Earth's population in 2019 was 7,577,130,400. At the current trend everybody on this planet could be infected in just over 40 days. If they find a vaccine it will take 3 years to make it readily available. Containment is essential._
> 
> The math is frightening:
> 
> Jan 30 7,000
> Feb 1 14,000
> Feb 3 28,000
> Feb 5 56,000
> Feb 7 112,000
> Feb 9 224,000
> Feb 11 448,000
> Feb 13 896,000
> Feb 15 1,792,000
> Feb 17 3,584,000
> Feb 19 7,168,000
> Feb 21 14,336,000
> Feb 23 28,672,000
> Feb 25 57,344,000
> Feb 27 114,688,000
> Feb 29 229,376,000
> Mar 2 458,752,000
> Mar 4 917,504,000
> Mar 6 1,835,008,000
> Mar 8 3,670,016,000
> Mar 10 7,340,032,000
> 
> The Earth's population in 2019 was 7,577,130,400. At the current trend everybody on this planet could be infected in just over 40 days. If they find a vaccine it will take 3 years to make it readily available. Containment is essential.


Not me. I've stopped shaking hands after each game at the curling club and now only bump forearms.


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## mhammer

Guitar101 said:


> Not me. I've stopped shaking hands after each game at the curling and now only bump forearms.


It's flu season. That's a good practice for flu season anyways, regardless of what's going on in the rest of the world. Nothing wrong with shaking a _clean_ hand with your own _clean_ hand, though.


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## mhammer

GuitarsCanada said:


> SARS is not gone, neither is MERS. They can go dormant through various means and they can come back. Each of them have their own unique features. This one is yet unknown lots to learn about it yet. But once the Genie get's out of the bottle it's almost impossible to get it back in. Way too early yet to predict the outcome on this one. But with 10,000 cases on the books and most likely thousands more out there not yet on the books, it's not going anywhere yet. It may, in time, just become another strain of the flu, one in a long list of them that we are faced with every year.


Any disease that can be contracted from another source can be prevented, or at least substantially reduced in threat. What can be missing is knowledge about what the source is, how it's transmitted, symptoms, and where the sources of risk are. Once you have that knowledge however, such things become manageable.

For example, we now know what segments of the population are most susceptible to the flu, what time of the year it is most likely to occur, how to prevent transmission, and what symptoms to look for. Flu shots are readily available, and every year there is a campaign to get the most vulnerable folks off their keisters to get their shot early enough in the season to provide protection. Public buildings provide hand sanitizer in visible accessible places. As a result, influenza is not the mass killer it once was.


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## Guitar101

mhammer said:


> It's flu season. That's a good practice for flu season anyways, regardless of what's going on in the rest of the world. Nothing wrong with shaking a _clean_ hand with your own _clean_ hand, though.


That's a nice thought but with eight people shaking hands after each game, there's no such thing as a clean hand. Good handwashing practises are a must. I'm a bit of a germaphobe.


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## allthumbs56

Guitar101 said:


> Not me. I've stopped shaking hands after each game at the curling club and now only bump forearms.


Absolutely. With a vaccine 3 years away you need to take your own precautions. I will be avoiding people I don't know - and that goes especially for a bit of "racial profiling" on my part. I'm older, with some health issues. I don't mind being anti-social. I'm passing through YYZ next weekend, on my way to the Dominican - not too worried about that other than Security and Customs.

For the foreseeable future Common Sense is the best/only defense we have. Be careful and pray that it's contained and fizzles out.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

allthumbs56 said:


> Absolutely. With a vaccine 3 years away you need to take your own precautions. I will be avoiding people I don't know - and that goes especially for a bit of "racial profiling" on my part. I'm older, with some health issues. I don't mind being anti-social. I'm passing through YYZ next weekend, on my way to the Dominican - not too worried about that other than Security and Customs.
> 
> For the foreseeable future Common Sense is the best/only defense we have. Be careful and pray that it's contained and fizzles out.


Too bad you already booked. I figure a month from now they will be giving rooms away for free.


----------



## allthumbs56

GuitarsCanada said:


> Too bad you already booked. I figure a month from now they will be giving rooms away for free.


I might just stay there anyway. Nothing to come home to other than my dogs and Tax Season.


----------



## Electraglide

allthumbs56 said:


> Appears to be doubling every 2 days. The math is frightening:
> 
> Jan 30 7,000
> Feb 1 14,000
> Feb 3 28,000
> Feb 5 56,000
> Feb 7 112,000
> Feb 9 224,000
> Feb 11 448,000
> Feb 13 896,000
> Feb 15 1,792,000
> Feb 17 3,584,000
> Feb 19 7,168,000
> Feb 21 14,336,000
> Feb 23 28,672,000
> Feb 25 57,344,000
> Feb 27 114,688,000
> Feb 29 229,376,000
> Mar 2 458,752,000
> Mar 4 917,504,000
> Mar 6 1,835,008,000
> Mar 8 3,670,016,000
> Mar 10 7,340,032,000
> 
> The Earth's population in 2019 was 7,577,130,400. At the current trend everybody on this planet could be infected in just over 40 days. If they find a vaccine it will take 3 years to make it readily available. Containment is essential.


If this is the case there's a damned good chance we'll be gone by mid June at the latest. In that case I'm gonna find me some women and a sheep and go out with a hell of a bang.


----------



## Electraglide

1SweetRide said:


> Not necessarily. This virus is from the same family as SARS. SARS burned itself out and is gone.


Nope, Sars and Mer among others are still around......oh well. If this flu don't get you Cholera or the Measles or a whole bunch of other illnesses probably will.


----------



## laristotle

Electraglide said:


> If this flu don't get you Cholera or the Measles or a whole bunch of other illnesses probably will.


In your case, most likely someone's husband. or a farmer. lol


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> In your case, most likely someone's husband. or a farmer. lol


Or both at the same time. Just as long as someone can cook.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


>


About the same as modifying a large water bottle I guess.


----------



## iamthehub

I've been using this to keep up to date with the numbers (infected/died/recovered) and where it's spreading to...


Operations Dashboard for ArcGIS




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wardo

Guitar101 said:


> ... now only bump forearms.


That's way cooler anyways.


----------



## knight_yyz




----------



## Ship of fools

The early news said it could be as high as 50,000 folks infected. I have never had to wash my hands so often as I do these days.


----------



## 1SweetRide

mhammer said:


> It's flu season. That's a good practice for flu season anyways, regardless of what's going on in the rest of the world. Nothing wrong with shaking a _clean_ hand with your own _clean_ hand, though.


That’s a myth. I work in a large building with professionals. Very few of them wash their hands after going to the washroom. They’ve just been holding their dicks and they leave to go touch god knows what.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Electraglide said:


> Nope, Sars and Mer among others are still around......oh well. If this flu don't get you Cholera or the Measles or a whole bunch of other illnesses probably will.


Found the article in which the statement about SARS’s disappearance is mentioned. It’s an interesting read for other reasons though. How does this coronavirus outbreak end?


----------



## allthumbs56

Ship of fools said:


> The early news said it could be as high as 50,000 folks infected. I have never had to wash my hands so often as I do these days.


Early days but I'm hoping the numbers plateau and recede. So far it looks like the cases in Canada have been mild. All good because we don't really have a specific defense other than the tried and true basics of virus avoidance. Hopefully that's enough because I wouldn't like my personal chance of survival if this thing ran amok.


----------



## Ship of fools

Well if folks realize that in many ways it is mimiking cold and flu like symptoms and they not touch their faces we should see a decline but it will take a while for that to happen.


----------



## 1SweetRide

allthumbs56 said:


> Early days but I'm hoping the numbers plateau and recede. So far it looks like the cases in Canada have been mild. All good because we don't really have a specific defense other than the tried and true basics of virus avoidance. Hopefully that's enough because I wouldn't like my personal chance of survival if this thing ran amok.


I guess the government’s cutback in office space, forcing me to work from home a lot is a good thing. I didn’t like the idea at first but it’s starting to have its benefits.


----------



## Electraglide

1SweetRide said:


> Found the article in which the statement about SARS’s disappearance is mentioned. It’s an interesting read for other reasons though. How does this coronavirus outbreak end?


This is nCoV.....a new version of the Coronovirus. SARS like Smallpox is almost gone, true. 3 of the last instances of SARS were caused by laboratory accidents. I find what they say about the Zika Virus interesting. 
"Michael Mina, an epidemiologist at the Harvard School of Public Health, offers the 2015-2016 Zika virus epidemic in Puerto Rico and South America as an example of an epidemic that essentially burned itself out. “Tons and tons of people got infected very rapidly,” he says. (There were more than than 35,000 cases in Puerto Rico in 2016.) But then the number of people susceptible to the disease dwindled. Those who were most at risk of coming into contact with the disease-carrying mosquitoes already got the disease. “And that ultimately leaves fewer people for those viruses to go in and infect.”

Zika is still circulating to a smaller degree in Brazil. But in Puerto Rico, officials report, it’s not really spreading anymore"
A lot of people infected but it died out.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## High/Deaf

allthumbs56 said:


> For the foreseeable future *Common Sense is the best/only defense we have*. Be careful and pray that it's contained and fizzles out.


Based on that, I guess we can assume Canada will become an extinct nation. The only thing common about common sense here is how absolutely rare and uncommon it has become.

Just as well, we're all dead by 2030 anyways. It'll just give the lucky ones better access to burial plots.


----------



## laristotle

Report: Outbreak of idiocy spreading 10,000 times faster than coronavirus

_TORONTO – Public health officials in Toronto have confirmed its first 50,000 cases of being a misinformed fuckwit as xenophobic conspiracy theories and tales of false cures continue to spread across social media.

“Becoming a complete moron during an infectious disease outbreak is far more viral than we first thought,” said Dr. Jeanne Smith of Toronto Public Health. “Fact resistance is abnormally high especially among the dullard population, and the bottom 5% of your graduating high school class.”

Tens of thousands of people were affected by a novel fake news claim that the Chinese government was developing coronavirus at Canada’s National Microbiology Lab leaving at least 10,000 people stupider.

Patients are usually asymptomatic until they open their mouths or start tweeting.

Aunts spreading rumours about 100% natural cures for the virus on Facebook have been quarantined while racist uncles at dinner tables were ball-gagged as a precaution.

“Our epidemiologists are working hard to identify idiot zero, but there might be more sporadic outbreaks of coronavirus-related imbecility,” added Dr. Smith.

Meanwhile, health officials are dreading teaching the population a complicated prevention technique: washing your hands._


----------



## allthumbs56

# of infected doubled in 3 days rather than 2. Hopefully slowing down.


----------



## Guitar101

High/Deaf said:


> Just as well, we're all dead by 2030 anyways. It'll just give the lucky ones better access to burial plots.


I'm glad you said 2030. I just got my new passport and it's good for 10 years.


----------



## 1SweetRide

laristotle said:


> Report: Outbreak of idiocy spreading 10,000 times faster than coronavirus
> 
> _TORONTO – Public health officials in Toronto have confirmed its first 50,000 cases of being a misinformed fuckwit as xenophobic conspiracy theories and tales of false cures continue to spread across social media.
> 
> “Becoming a complete moron during an infectious disease outbreak is far more viral than we first thought,” said Dr. Jeanne Smith of Toronto Public Health. “Fact resistance is abnormally high especially among the dullard population, and the bottom 5% of your graduating high school class.”
> 
> Tens of thousands of people were affected by a novel fake news claim that the Chinese government was developing coronavirus at Canada’s National Microbiology Lab leaving at least 10,000 people stupider.
> 
> Patients are usually asymptomatic until they open their mouths or start tweeting.
> 
> Aunts spreading rumours about 100% natural cures for the virus on Facebook have been quarantined while racist uncles at dinner tables were ball-gagged as a precaution.
> 
> “Our epidemiologists are working hard to identify idiot zero, but there might be more sporadic outbreaks of coronavirus-related imbecility,” added Dr. Smith.
> 
> Meanwhile, health officials are dreading teaching the population a complicated prevention technique: washing your hands._


How many people would be left on Earth if we shipped all the dumb ones to Mars?


----------



## sambonee

It got out of Wuhan city because the Chinese communist party didn’t respond with basic virus protocol. 

the infection started 2 miles from a bio-weapons storage. And it began just before the worlds greatest migration known to man (Chinese new year). It was the perfect error if you had evil intentions.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Trump just said he's wiped out the virus so I guess we're all safe now.


----------



## Dorian2

1SweetRide said:


> That’s a myth. I work in a large building with professionals. Very few of them wash their hands after going to the washroom. They’ve just been holding their dicks and they leave to go touch god knows what.



That's been my experience too.


----------



## Dorian2

Is Canada doing anything proactive?

China Increasingly Walled Off as Countries Seek to Stem Coronavirus

It's a simple question that will probably get political. But it has to be asked. I honestly don't know the answer and have not sought it out.


----------



## Lincoln

Hopefully the virus is only spread person to person like they say. If it can lives on "items", the whole world is doomed.


----------



## allthumbs56

Lincoln said:


> Hopefully the virus is only spread person to person like they say. If it can lives on "items", the whole world is doomed.


I could be wrong and it is "early days" but I heard it can live up to 2 weeks on a surface.


----------



## keto

Dorian2 said:


> Is Canada doing anything proactive?
> 
> China Increasingly Walled Off as Countries Seek to Stem Coronavirus
> 
> It's a simple question that will probably get political. But it has to be asked. I honestly don't know the answer and have not sought it out.


on the radio today: USA, France, Germany and other countries were named as having had planes with their citizens leave China starting 4 days ago, Canada zero so far, possibly some diplomats’ kids only.


----------



## Electraglide

Dorian2 said:


> Is Canada doing anything proactive?
> 
> China Increasingly Walled Off as Countries Seek to Stem Coronavirus
> 
> It's a simple question that will probably get political. But it has to be asked. I honestly don't know the answer and have not sought it out.


Seems that they are. 
Canadians brought back from Wuhan will go to CFB Trenton in Ontario for observation
I wonder which is worse these days, CFB Trenton or Christmas Island. Probably not as bad as Saint Helena.


----------



## Electraglide

Lincoln said:


> Hopefully the virus is only spread person to person like they say. If it can lives on "items", the whole world is doomed.


Transmission of Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV) | CDC


----------



## Dorian2

Wonder where patient zero happens to be holed up?

Race to find ‘Patient Zero’ so scientists can crack virus vaccine


----------



## Milkman

So far they’re saying it’s NOT airborne so masks are basically useless and can even be counterproductive.

Use lots of hand sanitizer, avoid touching your face.


----------



## Guitar101

Milkman said:


> So far they’re saying it’s NOT airborne so masks are basically useless and can even be counterproductive.
> 
> Use lots of hand sanitizer, avoid touching your face.


Maybe not airborne but what if an infected person coughed on or near you. Masks may help in this situation. A doctor on CBC Saturday night was asked a question about the virus living on surfaces on a plane. The answer was they think the virus can live from 1 to 2 days but there not sure yet, The airlines don't disinfect the plane after the people depart after each flight but do vacuum the carpets. They go back to good handwashing techniques and avoiding touching your face. He also mentioned taking disinfectant wipes with you and wiping down hard surfaces near you if your concerned.


----------



## Milkman

Guitar101 said:


> Maybe not airborne but what if an infected person coughed on or near you. Masks may help in this situation. A doctor on CBC Saturday night was asked a question about the virus living on surfaces on a plane. The answer was they think the virus can live from 1 to 2 days but there not sure yet, The airlines don't disinfect the plane after the people depart after each flight but do vacuum the carpets. They go back to good handwashing techniques and avoiding touching your face. He also mentioned taking disinfectant wipes with you and wiping down hard surfaces near you if your concerned.


Yes, if you’re in close quarters with someone coughing or sneezing a mask can help.

Generally, washing your hands and avoiding touching your face are considered more effective ways to prevent getting sick.

For now, My family are all carrying personal hand sanitizers around.


----------



## Milkman

As some of us expected (not much of a prediction), shit is starting to hit the fan.

I spent most of the morning on the phone with various customers and suppliers discussing the impact of the virus on production.

It will come down to one or two suppliers shutting down many auto (and other) plants and the other suppliers breathing a sigh of relief that they weren't the weak link.


----------



## High/Deaf

Seems to me this is exactly what Greta has been campaigning for - and end to capitalism and the production of goods. Perhaps the virus has been mis-labeled.

On the other hand, it kind of limits the amount of time people want to spend in large groups, so it probably hurts her 'standing on bridges around a propane heater' Friday thingy.


----------



## Electraglide

A bitch of a place to be stuck.








Maybe they'll just let it go for a 'Three hour cruise".


----------



## torndownunit

Electraglide said:


> A bitch of a place to be stuck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they'll just let it go for a 'Three hour cruise".


I've never been close to one of those floating cities in person. I am always blown away by photos though.


----------



## Milkman

Electraglide said:


> A bitch of a place to be stuck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they'll just let it go for a 'Three hour cruise".


Those folks are completely confined to quarters. Now a plane has landed in Trenton with a load of Canadians travelling from the affected region. Two weeks in quarantine.


----------



## Wardo

Electraglide said:


> A bitch of a place to be stuck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they'll just let it go for a 'Three hour cruise".


Those things look like it wouldn’t take much to flip them over.


----------



## vadsy

High/Deaf said:


> Seems to me this is exactly what Greta has been campaigning for - and end to capitalism and the production of goods. Perhaps the virus has been mis-labeled.
> 
> On the other hand, it kind of limits the amount of time people want to spend in large groups, so it probably hurts her 'standing on bridges around a propane heater' Friday thingy.


man,. She really got under your skin. you and allthumbs cant resist bringing her up over and over


----------



## Electraglide

Wardo said:


> Those things look like it wouldn’t take much to flip them over.


7000 on that sucker.


----------



## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> Those folks are completely confined to quarters. Now a plane has landed in Trenton with a load of Canadians travelling from the affected region. Two weeks in quarantine.


Close quarters.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## allthumbs56

vadsy said:


> man,. She really got under your skin. you and allthumbs cant resist bringing her up over and over


So there I was, standing on the corner minding my own business ...............................


----------



## Wardo

Electraglide said:


> Close quarters.


All breathing the same recycled air.


----------



## Milkman

Wardo said:


> All breathing the same recycled air.


Not really a factor. This one is all about hand washing and avoiding touching your face.


----------



## vadsy

allthumbs56 said:


> So there I was, standing on the corner minding my own business ...............................


I wasn’t going to say anything ...,


----------



## Distortion

Electraglide said:


> A bitch of a place to be stuck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe they'll just let it go for a 'Three hour cruise".


as people die they just throw them over the side to feed the sharks. Get rid of the virus.


----------



## allthumbs56

vadsy said:


> I wasn’t going to say anything ...,


Ya - don't think that 's possible.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Coughing and sneezing will spread it through the air.
More than 800 dead in China.
That's more than SARS.

So let's take an example.

A university student (because there is one confirmed in London, although they self quarantined with a weak positive case, recovered as far as I know)
Lets say they have 5 classes/day with a nominal 20 people/class. 100 people.
100 people attending other classes, going to coffee shops, grocery stores, sports events, retail outlets, restaurants, etc. 10,000 people

In 3 steps that's a town, in 4 steps that's a major city.

or

1 truck driver. 5 stops in a day to factories with 20 to 1000 people. Stops for meals, stops at coffee shops, has a family at home and the wife works and kids go to school.......

Something that can take 14 days before symptoms appear, is readily transmitted, and can be deadly, could be devastating. Nothing anyone can really do about much in this case except the best they can. Sleep well, don't think about it too much. If this don't get you, something else will eventually.


----------



## butterknucket




----------



## Electraglide

So they built a hospital that looks more like a prison which I guess it is. Better than being stuck on a cruise ship.
The first patients have arrived at the hospital China panic-built to treat the Wuhan coronavirus. Here's what it looks like inside.


----------



## High/Deaf

vadsy said:


> man,. She really got under your skin. you and allthumbs cant resist bringing her up over and over


Much like I've gotten under yours, I guess (and @allthumbs56 . Not really that hard, your buttons are about the size of a trampoline. I'm getting a lot of free rent in that skull of yours these days. I like it!


----------



## vadsy

High/Deaf said:


> Much like I've gotten under yours, I guess (and @allthumbs56 . Not really that hard, your buttons are about the size of a trampoline. I'm getting a lot of free rent in that skull of yours these days. I like it!


Lulz. Whatever makes you feel better


----------



## High/Deaf

Thanks for proving my point. Cheers buddy!


----------



## vadsy

yeah, I don’t think it does


----------



## laristotle




----------



## laristotle




----------



## Milkman

And, just when you think people couldn’t get any dumber....

The coronavirus has nothing to do with Corona beer, despite what many people around the world seem to think


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Milkman

If the Novel coronavirus was indeed caused by beer, I’d be safe.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Guitar101

Milkman said:


> If the Novel coronavirus was indeed caused by beer, I’d be safe.


Not so fast.


----------



## Milkman

Guitar101 said:


> Not so fast.



Phew....white wine.

My wife may be F$3ked, but I'm still ok.


----------



## High/Deaf

Milkman said:


> If the Novel coronavirus was indeed caused by beer, I’d be safe.


That's one way of approaching it. 

The other is to inoculate yourself, regularly and with vigor. Generate a high tolerance to the strain. Based on that, I think I'm probably OK, too.


----------



## Milkman

High/Deaf said:


> That's one way of approaching it.
> 
> The other is to inoculate yourself, regularly and with vigor. Generate a high tolerance to the strain. Based on that, I think I'm probably OK, too.


I'm taking the "frequent and vigorous hand washing" approach, carrying a small bottle of hand sanitizer around in my pocket.

And hoping to not be exposed.


----------



## Distortion

Milkman said:


> I'm taking the "frequent and vigorous hand washing" approach, carrying a small bottle of hand sanitizer around in my pocket.
> 
> And hoping to not be exposed.


I got a light pair of winter gloves that I keep on out in public. Using public computers, pushing public doors etc. So far so good. It started out just not wanting to get flue because I have not got the shot, and had it bad last year. .I figure any bugs wont live on the gloves with no moisture.


----------



## High/Deaf

My bassplayer won't sing into any else's mic. And won't let anyone sing into his. Brings his own mic, sets it up when we play and takes it down when we're done --- even if we've only played 3 or 4 songs. Probably a smart habit to get into and something I should be more proactive about. People slobber all over mics.


----------



## Milkman

Distortion said:


> I got a light pair of winter gloves that I keep on out in public. Using public computers, pushing public doors etc. So far so good. It started out just not wanting to get flue because I have not got the shot, and had it bad last year. .I figure any bugs wont live on the gloves with no moisture.


I took the flu shot this year.

I sure as hell don't need novel coronavirus.

This may actually have a plus side for me. I've long been of the opinion that hand washing is the best way to avoid most easily shared sicknesses.

This has only made me more vigilant.

Can't hurt (unless I develop a sensitivity to alcohol).


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Did pangolins spread the China coronavirus to people?


----------



## Electraglide

Guitar101 said:


> Not so fast.


If it's caused by wine or over priced, tasteless beer then I'm safe.


----------



## Electraglide

I'd say there's been quite a few people from the area I live in and at the grocery store I shop at who've been over to SE Asia, mainly China, in the last 2 to 3 months. So far everyone is good and my Dr.'s not worried.....at least about me having the flu.


----------



## Chitmo




----------



## laristotle




----------



## Mooh

High/Deaf said:


> My bassplayer won't sing into any else's mic. And won't let anyone sing into his. Brings his own mic, sets it up when we play and takes it down when we're done --- even if we've only played 3 or 4 songs. Probably a smart habit to get into and something I should be more proactive about. People slobber all over mics.


I’ve done this for years. Way back when I was exposed to smoker’s mics I found it disgusting and because I taught health and safety for several years I couldn’t stand the thought of what I might be exposing myself to. No one uses my mics but me.

I also wipe down the equipment at the YMCA gym because many people refuse to in spite of the rules, and around my lesson studio at home.


----------



## Guitar101

How about those carts at Costco. Who knows who used the cart before you and what germs they had on their hands. 10 minutes later, your trying the free samples they hand out in the store. Yummy.


----------



## Milkman

Mooh said:


> I’ve done this for years. Way back when I was exposed to smoker’s mics I found it disgusting and because I taught health and safety for several years I couldn’t stand the thought of what I might be exposing myself to. No one uses my mics but me.
> 
> I also wipe down the equipment at the YMCA gym because many people refuse to in spite of the rules, and around my lesson studio at home.


When I was doing lots of sound and gigging as a player, I would take the balls off of my 58s and run them through the dishwasher once every couple of weeks.
They come out squeaky clean.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Risk of "economic shock" from coronavirus adds to global uncertainty: Don Pittis | CBC News


----------



## torndownunit

Mooh said:


> I’ve done this for years. Way back when I was exposed to smoker’s mics I found it disgusting and because I taught health and safety for several years I couldn’t stand the thought of what I might be exposing myself to. No one uses my mics but me.
> 
> I also wipe down the equipment at the YMCA gym because many people refuse to in spite of the rules, and around my lesson studio at home.


From what I have been told, people not washing their hands is generally the biggest factor in spreading a lot of these viruses. Even my sister in law who works in the ER as a respiratory therapist has told me this many times. So a lot of the measures people take really don't have much effect as far as prevention. I totally understand doing that with mics though, especially as far as smells lol. I carry a mic around as well.


----------



## laristotle

torndownunit said:


> totally understand doing that with mics though, especially as far as smells lol


Mid 80's. Our band used to rent a pre-production studio for rehearsals on the weekend.
One month, the studio was rented by Lee Aaron during the week. 
When we went in on the weekend, I couldn't get within two feet of the mic from the smell of her perfume.








Gary McCracken (Max Webster) played with her during that stint. He left his kit set up, out of the way. 
To make sure that we didn't mess around with it, he left a 1" cigar ash standing on the stool and his metronome running (to make us think that is was some security device. lol). Monday after we had the studio, the owner called us asking if we touched Gary's kit, because the ash was knocked over. We all had to laugh, including Gary afterwards, because we use 100w Marshalls cranked to eleven and the bassist was running through a SVT. What did he expect?


----------



## laristotle




----------



## GuitarsCanada

Cases exploded by 15000 overnight. 250 more deaths


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


>


I guess someone told here to "bring the cat for dinner".


----------



## High/Deaf

GuitarsCanada said:


> Cases exploded by 15000 overnight. 250 more deaths


........... and that's what the Chinese govt is telling us. Besides their politburo, who really knows the correct numbers? None of us, that's for sure.


----------



## mhammer

A distant relative in Glasgow had a business for years providing hospital consummables. When I heard about face-mask and similar shortages this morning, I wrote to him and asked if Covid19 had implications for his business. He replied:
"_my expertise was fairly tightly restricted to First Aid Kits and Dressings. Funny you brought 
this up as only yesterday, one of my 'Chinese' business contacts asked me if I could
quickly source for them, 20,000 forehead thermometers, but I had to tell her, like
you, that all diagnostic and protective products associated with the virus are in
extremely short supply and manufacturers are hard pressed to keep up with demand
from their regular favoured customers, and supplies outside of this would be very
hard indeed to locate. So I am not able to capitalise on this situation.
As it happens two of my very closest business connections are based in WUHAN and I
am dreadfully sorry for their present situation.. I have visited that city on
several occasions . It seems you only have to be in the wrong place at the wrong
time .,..._"


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> A distant relative in Glasgow had a business for years providing hospital consummables. When I heard about face-mask and similar shortages this morning, I wrote to him and asked if Covid19 had implications for his business. He replied:
> "_my expertise was fairly tightly restricted to First Aid Kits and Dressings. Funny you brought
> this up as only yesterday, one of my 'Chinese' business contacts asked me if I could
> quickly source for them, 20,000 forehead thermometers, but I had to tell her, like
> you, that all diagnostic and protective products associated with the virus are in
> extremely short supply and manufacturers are hard pressed to keep up with demand
> from their regular favoured customers, and supplies outside of this would be very
> hard indeed to locate. So I am not able to capitalise on this situation.
> As it happens two of my very closest business connections are based in WUHAN and I
> am dreadfully sorry for their present situation.. I have visited that city on
> several occasions . It seems you only have to be in the wrong place at the wrong
> time .,..._"


I guess everyone wants to make a buck and thaat could be part of the reason for the short supply.


----------



## mhammer

Nah. The problem seems to be that if you commit to an existing client, and you've pretty much hit peak production, you can't simply welch on the contract. We wouldn't expect a supplier providing to Medicins Sans Frontieres dealing with ebola, to suddenly turn around and say "Sorry, Wuhan needs it more.". Yes there are critical outbreaks here and there, but it's not like the rest of the world has no steady need for such supplies on a regular basis. Note that my cousin would have liked to be able to make a buck on this, but simply can't. Money is always a powerful motivator, but you gotta have inventory to sell in order to make money.


----------



## Milkman

As I feared, this isn’t going away quickly.

If we don’t see a downturn in the spread soon I’d watch for factories to start announcing production stoppages due to material and component shortages.

That will start around the end of April, maybe sooner for some plants.

Already (and due to irrational panic to some extent) you can’t buy hand sanitizer in this city. There are even shortages of bottled water.

This may he one of those rare situations where my antisocial tendencies protect me to some extent.


----------



## mhammer

There are three pivotal factors. One is ingress and egress. That is, diminishing the possibility of covid-19 spreading TO you, and spreading FROM you. So, the masks and emphasis on washing hands, and reducing physical interpersonal contact, is a big part of that. Realistically, the masks are more for keeping micro-particles of what comes out of your mouth contained than for preventing inhalation of anything.

The second, and perhaps more unknown part at this point, is what the environmental conditions are that allow the virus to remain "alive"/functional and transmissible. So, does exposure to air or some other surface kill it, or otherwise drain its batteries? We don't know yet. If I blow my nose into a tissue, and some micro-particles work their way through the tissue onto my hand, which I then use to grab a pole in the subway, is the miniscule amount I might leave on that pole a vehicle for transmission, and if so, for how long? 

Third, we don't actually know the relationship between transmissibility and detectability. If the levels of the virus are initially too low to show up in blood tests, is the individual still a potential carrier? And if so, do folks feeling a little under the weather, but whose tests come up negative, require RE-testing? What is the expected time arc between exposure and detectable virus levels?

I will note that one of THE biggest impacts on life expectancy in the last few hundred years came from Ignaz Semmelweis, who persuaded doctors to start washing their hands between patients ( Ignaz Semmelweis - Wikipedia ). So, before you start tearing your hair out over going to the supermarket or work, take a few moments to wash your hands.


----------



## Milkman

mhammer said:


> So, before you start tearing your hair out over going to the supermarket or work, take a few moments to wash your hands.


I am definitely increasing my hand washing habit.

Too late to start worrying about my hair.


----------



## mhammer

Milkman said:


> Too late to start worrying about my hair.


I knew that. I was just being hopeful.


----------



## Milkman

mhammer said:


> I knew that. I was just being hopeful.


You AND my wife.


----------



## Doug Gifford

This is a very level-headed take on how things may unfold here: 
Coronavirus in Kingston, Canada. My take on what we might expect.


----------



## mhammer

Thanks for that. A concise, straightforward, logical, and thorough piece.


----------



## Milkman

Doug Gifford said:


> This is a very level-headed take on how things may unfold here:
> Coronavirus in Kingston, Canada. My take on what we might expect.


Really good article.

I posted it on our office bulletin board.

thank you


----------



## keto

Milkman said:


> Really good article.
> 
> I posted it on our office bulletin board.
> 
> thank you


The writer also continues to answer questions in the comments below, worth reading.


----------



## Milkman

mhammer said:


> Nah. The problem seems to be that if you commit to an existing client, and you've pretty much hit peak production, you can't simply welch on the contract. We wouldn't expect a supplier providing to Medicins Sans Frontieres dealing with ebola, to suddenly turn around and say "Sorry, Wuhan needs it more.". Yes there are critical outbreaks here and there, but it's not like the rest of the world has no steady need for such supplies on a regular basis. Note that my cousin would have liked to be able to make a buck on this, but simply can't. Money is always a powerful motivator, but you gotta have inventory to sell in order to make money.


Yes, in all industries other than car rentals and airlines if you sell more product than you can deliver you get a special visit from the D.O.J. if you’re an American company, I would imagine from the RCMP if you’re Canadian.

Once you’ve committed to a contract or PO, the only way to sell more is to add production capacity. Nobody will do that knowing demand will drop back down after the crisis.


----------



## 10409

Without reading a single post I’m going to assume the conversation has long since digressed to memes so I am ready to contribute


----------



## Milkman

Doug Gifford said:


> This is a very level-headed take on how things may unfold here:
> Coronavirus in Kingston, Canada. My take on what we might expect.


It’s worthwhile to bump this.


----------



## Wardo

Talking to a doctor today who said he has 10 masks left and can’t get anymore because everything has been sold to the public who don’t really need them.


----------



## vadsy

Wardo said:


> Talking to a doctor today who said he has 10 masks left and can’t get anymore because everything has been sold to the public who don’t really need them.


I betchya some of the regular forumittes that haven't been around for a couple of weeks are all off hoarding toilet paper and masks to prep for the walking dead scenarios, which is certainly just around the corner


----------



## laristotle




----------



## laristotle




----------



## keto

I've been trying do do my own version of the math blown out to world wide, just on observation. I get a fairly way out there worst case scenario of like 150 million. Out of what, 7 Billion? Mostly sick and elderly? Carry on, world. I mean, a lot of carcasses to dispose of, a lot of grief, a lot of burden on the health system, but civilization ending? Aww, hell no. 10M in the States, 1M here. Be shitty a while, and you or I could go as part of it so I get why nobody wants it, but........

Even if it does 3% of everyone on earth, what's that, 235M?


----------



## Lincoln




----------



## Wardo

vadsy said:


> I betchya some of the regular forumittes that haven't been around for a couple of weeks are all off hoarding toilet paper and masks to prep for the walking dead scenarios, which is certainly just around the corner


Well no one wants to die with a dirty asshole.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Wardo said:


> Well no one wants to die with a dirty asshole.


Better not go with my neighbour then.


----------



## 1SweetRide

keto said:


> I've been trying do do my own version of the math blown out to world wide, just on observation. I get a fairly way out there worst case scenario of like 150 million. Out of what, 7 Billion? Mostly sick and elderly? Carry on, world. I mean, a lot of carcasses to dispose of, a lot of grief, a lot of burden on the health system, but civilization ending? Aww, hell no. 10M in the States, 1M here. Be shitty a while, and you or I could go as part of it so I get why nobody wants it, but........
> 
> Even if it does 3% of everyone on earth, what's that, 235M?


Carcasses? Show some respect man. I prefer to refer to them as "died in agony and without TP".


----------



## jb welder

vadsy said:


> I betchya some of the regular forumittes that haven't been around for a couple of weeks are all off hoarding toilet paper and masks to prep for the walking dead scenarios, which is certainly just around the corner


I put some masks up in the FS section. Some idiot badummy started whining about my pricing model.



keto said:


> I've been trying do do my own version of the math blown out to world wide, just on observation. I get a fairly way out there worst case scenario of like 150 million. Out of what, 7 Billion? Mostly sick and elderly? Carry on, world. I mean, a lot of carcasses to dispose of, a lot of grief, a lot of burden on the health system, but civilization ending? Aww, hell no. 10M in the States, 1M here. Be shitty a while, and you or I could go as part of it so I get why nobody wants it, but........
> 
> Even if it does 3% of everyone on earth, what's that, 235M?


I think with wildlife, it's called a 'die off'.


----------



## laristotle

1SweetRide said:


> died in agony and without TP


----------



## sulphur




----------



## Milkman

Well, I’m cool with keeping a stiff upper lip, laughing in the face of danger, and all that, and I am definitely not inclined to blow things like this out of proportion (no tin foil hats during Y2K for me), but this virus has the legs to cause global disruption.

Italy is basically shut down. How long before Trump takes some advice from one of his whacko advisors and locks down their borders or some equally knee jerk reaction?


----------



## 1SweetRide

Meanwhile China pats itself on the back, conveniently forgetting where all this started.


----------



## Milkman

1SweetRide said:


> Meanwhile China pats itself on the back, conveniently forgetting where all this started.


Yeah, things look better in China at the moment, but they’ve gone through hell. 

Wouldn’t it work to just lock the planet up for three weeks? No international travel.

Let the virus sputter out?


----------



## 1SweetRide

Milkman said:


> Yeah, things look better in China at the moment, but they’ve gone through hell.
> 
> Wouldn’t it work to just lock the planet up for three weeks? No international travel.
> 
> Let the virus sputter out?


Too late now. It's in most of the world. I think that's what China tried to do.


----------



## Milkman

1SweetRide said:


> Too late now. It's in most of the world. I think that's what China tried to do.


Yeah I guess maybe that ship has sailed.

Still, the virus will not spread if those currently infected do not come into contact with others.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Milkman said:


> Yeah I guess maybe that ship has sailed.
> 
> Still, the virus will not spread if those currently infected do not come into contact with others.


Some measures to be announced today by the PM
Trudeau to announce COVID-19 aid measures Wednesday


----------



## Lola

I have come down with some really mild flu symptoms. Some serious body aches, mild fever and diarrhea. I don’t have a cough though.

I came home from work yesterday and felt like shit. I went to bed at 5:30 pm yesterday and slept until 7:30 this morning. I just don’t feel well. I just don’t want ppl freaking out at work.

I don’t know if I should stay home or go to work.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Lola said:


> I have come down with some really mild flu symptoms. Some serious body aches, mild fever and diarrhea. I don’t have a cough though.
> 
> I came home from work yesterday and felt like shit. I went to bed at 5:30 pm yesterday and slept until 7:30 this morning. I just don’t feel well. I just don’t want ppl freaking out at work.
> 
> I don’t know if I should stay home or go to work.


Stay home.


----------



## zdogma

Lola said:


> I have come down with some really mild flu symptoms. Some serious body aches, mild fever and diarrhea. I don’t have a cough though.
> 
> I came home from work yesterday and felt like shit. I went to bed at 5:30 pm yesterday and slept until 7:30 this morning. I just don’t feel well. I just don’t want ppl freaking out at work.
> 
> I don’t know if I should stay home or go to work.


Yeah, stay home is good advice. Most of what is out there is still the run of the mill winter virus stuff, but better safe than sorry. You’ll probably feel a lot better in a couple of days. 

If you get a fever (more than 38C), short of breath or really bad cough, call telehealth or public health and they’ll walk you through next steps.


----------



## mhammer

The difficulty is that:
a) symptoms from many different bugs and viruses overlap considerably;
b) co-workers and clients are not comforted by, or willing to neglect, that overlap.

HR professionals/observers regularly comment about "presenteeism" - the tendency for employees to show up for work, even when sick and contagiou;, the opposite of absenteeism. "Money-grubbing capitalist rat bastards" that they are, employers tend to be more concerned with absenteeism than presenteeism, even though many of the work absences can be a consequence of co-workers showing up to the workplace sick.


----------



## Dorian2

That's exactly why shit like this spreads. People go to work sick. Stay home if you're sick.


----------



## Wardo

zdogma said:


> If you get a fever (more than 38C), short of breath or really bad cough, call telehealth or public health and they’ll walk you through next steps.


This should be on billboards and posted all over the place but the sunny ways government is afraid of spooking the horses.

Most people will go to a walk-in or something and spread it around.


----------



## Lola

I like a stupid human being went to work. My boss would of lost her mind if I phoned in sick because we are moving our company and our whole computer system is changing. I should of stayed at home. Soon as I walked through the door at work, my boss says, “you’re 5 minutes late”. I explained to her I didn’t feel well. She just dismissed my complaints. Not much longer until Freedom 55 kicks in, 9 months and counting.

My boss is really stupid and I mean no brains. Boss bashing, yes I am. 

I told her outright that if I start to feel worse I am leaving. She was NOT happy. Don’t care. If everyone gets what I have it will cause this operation to shut down and then where will be? It’s all about the money, capitalism at it’s best.


----------



## High/Deaf

Humans being human, this is a more apt song.


----------



## Dorian2




----------



## vadsy

Lola said:


> I like a stupid human being went to work. My boss would of lost her mind if I phoned in sick because we are moving our company and our whole computer system is changing. I should of stayed at home. Soon as I walked through the door at work, my boss says, “you’re 5 minutes late”. I explained to her I didn’t feel well. She just dismissed my complaints. Not much longer until Freedom 55 kicks in, 9 months and counting.


[facepalm]


----------



## Milkman

1SweetRide said:


> Stay home.


Normally I say it’s a judgement call.

This is a no brainer IMO.

Stay home.


----------



## guitarman2

I was going to buy tickets for an Allison Kraus concert taking place May 1st but will likely pass. I've spoken with people that had tickets for Zach Brown and others that had tickets for Pearl Jam. Both concerts were postponed. 
I was also going to book a Martin behind the scenes factory tour and attend Martin fest but likely I'll pass on that as who knows if they'll cancel those.
The last thing I was going to do this summer was go to Quebec for a vacation. Was going to book rooms activities, etc buy may just end up doing a last minute road trip if things haven't progressed to shutting down that type of travel. 
I wonder what affect this will have on gigging musicians. The bar industry is already shit.


----------



## Milkman

guitarman2 said:


> I was going to buy tickets for an Allison Kraus concert taking place May 1st but will likely pass. I've spoken with people that had tickets for Zach Brown and others that had tickets for Pearl Jam. Both concerts were postponed.
> I was also going to book a Martin behind the scenes factory tour and attend Martin fest but likely I'll pass on that as who knows if they'll cancel those.
> The last thing I was going to do this summer was go to Quebec for a vacation. Was going to book rooms activities, etc buy may just end up doing a last minute road trip if things haven't progressed to shutting down that type of travel.
> I wonder what affect this will have on gigging musicians. The bar industry is already shit.


Wow, very sorry if you have to miss Allison Kraus.

That’s a tragedy (and no, I’m not being sarcastic).

And yes, there are so many side effect impacts we have yet to consider.


----------



## greco

guitarman2 said:


> I wonder what affect this will have on gigging musicians.


This thread form another forum might interest you...

Corona Virus impact on jazz?


----------



## guitarman2

greco said:


> This thread form another forum might interest you...
> 
> Corona Virus impact on jazz?


I've always heard that country\pop music was 3 chords for thousands of fans and Jazz was thousands of chords for 3 fans. So for Jazz if the 3 just sit far enough away from each other...


----------



## Jim DaddyO

One place I worked at had an attendance bonus. You could get $300 if you didn't miss a day all year. That was motivation enough for some folks. You know, the ones who work every overtime shift they can so they can pay more taxes and would rather not spend that time with family. Anyway, try to explain to them that it is less than $1 a day over the year, but that's useless. They want every penny offered. Coming in sick and spreading it around and being pretty much useless the whole time because they feel so bad, and costing time and money due to the excessive mistakes they are making. Stupid policies leading to stupid actions.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Lola said:


> I have come down with some really mild flu symptoms. Some serious body aches, mild fever and diarrhea. I don’t have a cough though.
> 
> I came home from work yesterday and felt like shit. I went to bed at 5:30 pm yesterday and slept until 7:30 this morning. I just don’t feel well. I just don’t want ppl freaking out at work.
> 
> I don’t know if I should stay home or go to work.


My wife and I just had this exact same thing.

Lasted about 4 days total, although my back still aches.

Because there was no shortness of breath or cough for us, it's not likely CV19.

But we stayed home anyway because:

1. There's no way I could function at work anyway because of the spine ripping electric shivers, frequency of trips to the bathroom and associated dehydration weakness, debilitating full body ache, and fully clamped migraine.

2. I wouldn't want to pass that on to anyone in general at any time, let alone someone who might also have CV19.

3. If you had this and then, in the unlikely event, you we're exposed to CV19, you'd be at much greater risk for complication.

Generally speaking, it's not about you, it's about the 60 year old, or 70 year old that may not be as resistant as you, that gets really sick or dies because of you spreading whatever sickness around.

What I just had felt at lot like when I had H1N1 and was quarantined for that, although this recent one was only about 40% as bad as H1N1 in terms of intensity.

These illnesses hit everyone differently, and just because you had mild symptoms for a couple of days, as my wife did, doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't be in complete misery for a longer period, or worse, because of you spreading it by going to work.

Basically, if you're sick, regardless of what it is, regardless of what your boss says (they are not your doctor), and regardless of what your company says (they are not your doctor), stay home.


----------



## Distortion

Lola said:


> mild flu symptoms. mild fever and diarrhea. I don’t have a cough though.


 I had this Monday but it was the hot peppers I ate on Sunday on the Subway sub.


----------



## Milkman

Jim DaddyO said:


> One place I worked at had an attendance bonus. You could get $300 if you didn't miss a day all year. That was motivation enough for some folks. You know, the ones who work every overtime shift they can so they can pay more taxes and would rather not spend that time with family. Anyway, try to explain to them that it is less than $1 a day over the year, but that's useless. They want every penny offered. Coming in sick and spreading it around and being pretty much useless the whole time because they feel so bad, and costing time and money due to the excessive mistakes they are making. Stupid policies leading to stupid actions.


I’ve heard similar opinions about those of us who work the overtime and yes I understand diminishing returns, but I have not reached the level where I would earn less by working more (if such a level exists).

All of those with whom I worked who had such a position are now looking in from the outside.

Us die hards are still working.

Family is STILL my priority.

That’s WHY I worked all those hours.


----------



## ZeroGravity

Ottawa has its first confirmed case. Ottawa records 1st case of coronavirus | CBC News


----------



## Paul M

mhammer said:


> <snip>
> 
> I will note that one of THE biggest impacts on life expectancy in the last few hundred years came from Ignaz Semmelweis, who persuaded doctors to start washing their hands between patients ( Ignaz Semmelweis - Wikipedia ). So, before you start tearing your hair out over going to the supermarket or work, take a few moments to wash your hands.


A buddy of mine played bass on this during the SARS crisis






It's making the rounds in Brantford again.


----------



## guitarman2

Jim DaddyO said:


> One place I worked at had an attendance bonus. You could get $300 if you didn't miss a day all year. That was motivation enough for some folks. You know, the ones who work every overtime shift they can so they can pay more taxes and would rather not spend that time with family. Anyway, try to explain to them that it is less than $1 a day over the year, but that's useless. They want every penny offered. Coming in sick and spreading it around and being pretty much useless the whole time because they feel so bad, and costing time and money due to the excessive mistakes they are making. Stupid policies leading to stupid actions.


"Working overtime so you can pay more taxes" is a stupid premise. When I get extra money I throw in extra in my RRSP's so its there for retirement when my income will be less. The government doesn't get it.
Although I I don't have an incentive for attendance I have not missed a day in the past full year because I keep my self relatively healthy and I have not so much as even caught a cold.


----------



## 1SweetRide

guitarman2 said:


> "Working overtime so you can pay more taxes" is a stupid premise. When I get extra money I throw in extra in my RRSP's so its there for retirement when my income will be less. The government doesn't get it.
> Although I I don't have an incentive for attendance I have not missed a day in the past full year because I keep my self relatively healthy and I have not so much as even caught a cold.


You need to hang around kids more. Try a daycare. Don't wear a trenchcoat or sunglasses though.


----------



## Lola

guitarman2 said:


> "Working overtime so you can pay more taxes" is a stupid premise. When I get extra money I throw in extra in my RRSP's so its there for retirement when my income will be less. The government doesn't get it.
> Although I I don't have an incentive for attendance I have not missed a day in the past full year because I keep my self relatively healthy and I have not so much as even caught a cold.


I can’t say no at work. Or, I have a real hard time saying no. It’s not about the money. If something needs to be done that is important then so be it.

My attendance is pretty good but because of my migraines I will take a day off if I need to. That I don’t care about. There is no way in hell that I can cope with a migraine at work!


----------



## torndownunit

1SweetRide said:


> You need to hang around kids more. Try a daycare. Don't wear a trenchcoat or sunglasses though.


They don't seem to like my windowless van with 'free candy' written on the side either. Weirdos.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

guitarman2 said:


> Although I I don't have an incentive for attendance I have not missed a day in the past full year because I keep my self relatively healthy and I have not so much as even caught a cold.


.....and that is the ONLY reason for perfect attendance. You're not spreading it around the whole workplace.


----------



## gtrguy

High/Deaf said:


> Humans being human, this is a more apt song.


Thanks for posting that, hadn't heard it in years. I saw that tour... freaking awesome.


----------



## guitarman2

Jim DaddyO said:


> .....and that is the ONLY reason for perfect attendance. You're not spreading it around the whole workplace.


Yes but in the past I have gone to work with a cold. Although I'm usually very, very low for sick time you can't stay home for every sniffle and cough. Although in these times where a pandemic is possible our work place has become more sensitive to this. I've been tasked to order a bunch of laptops in for a possible work from home policy.


----------



## ZeroGravity

Laurentian University has effective immediately suspended all in-class activity, labs and on-campus events and will resume tomorrow with online instruction Sudbury's Laurentian University moving classes online until further notice


----------



## laristotle

greco said:


> Corona Virus impact on jazz?














Jim DaddyO said:


> Coming in sick and spreading it around





reckless toboggan said:


> Basically, if you're sick, regardless of what it is, regardless of what your boss says (they are not your doctor), and regardless of what your company says (they are not your doctor), stay home.


Boss - 'we expect you to be here'.
Me - 'so, instead of just me, one person, being off for the day, you want to risk a dozen tomorrow?'


----------



## Dorian2

Coronavirus confirmed as pandemic


----------



## guitarman2

Dorian2 said:


> Coronavirus confirmed as pandemic


Just heard that. Is this our first global pandemic since 1918?


----------



## Dorian2

guitarman2 said:


> Just heard that. Is this our first global pandemic since 1918?


Don't know. No point in losing any sleep over it though. Just due diligence and keeping clean will go a long way. Don't think I'll be attending any concerts or major events this year though.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Also, first confirmed case just announced in Ottawa where I live.


----------



## guitarman2

1SweetRide said:


> Also, first confirmed case just announced in Ottawa where I live.


I heard today, first confirmed case (a doctor) in Hamilton, which puts it the closest to me yet.


----------



## Doug Gifford

My guitar player's wife, a doctor, will be testing someone today. She'll go out to their car and take a swab through the open window.


----------



## Milkman

guitarman2 said:


> I heard today, first confirmed case (a doctor) in Hamilton, which puts it the closest to me yet.


Too Effing close.


----------



## Distortion

guitarman2 said:


> I heard today, first confirmed case (a doctor) in Hamilton, which puts it the closest to me yet.


A Doctor that has worked with several sick cancer patients recently.


----------



## 10409

UK Virus ALERT

The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent virus threat and have therefore raised their threat level from “Miffed” to “Peeved.” Soon, though, level may be raised yet again to “Irritated” or even “A Bit Cross.”

The English have not been “A Bit Cross” since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out.

The virus has been re-categorized from “Tiresome” to “A Bloody Nuisance.” The last time the British issued a “Bloody Nuisance” warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.

The Scots have raised their threat level from “Pissed Off” to “Let's Get the Bastard.” They don't have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.

The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its alert level from “Run” to “Hide.” The only two higher levels in France are “Collaborate” and “Surrender.” The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France's white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country's military capability.

Italy has increased the alert level from “Shout Loudly and Excitedly” to “Elaborate Military Posturing.” Two more levels remain: “Ineffective Combat Operations” and “Change Sides.”

The Germans have increased their alert state from “Disdainful Arrogance” to “Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs.” They also have two higher levels: “Invade a Neighbour” and “Lose.”

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels.

The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

Australia, meanwhile, has raised its alert level from “No worries” to “She'll be alright, Mate.” Two more escalation levels remain: “Crikey! I think we'll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!” and “The barbie is cancelled.” So far, no situation has ever warranted use of the final escalation level.

The Russians have said “Its not us”


----------



## Wardo

I’m playing at bar tomorrow night; plan is to put a water bottle over my head.


----------



## Milkman

Enjoy it, gigs may become a rarity for the short term.


----------



## laristotle

someone may request some Frank Soda. lol


----------



## reckless toboggan

laristotle said:


> View attachment 298830
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boss - 'we expect you to be here'.
> Me - 'so, instead of just me, one person, being off for the day, you want to risk a dozen tomorrow?'


...and a class action lawsuit from all of those affected by the company's dangerous health policies that put many employees at risk of, and caused, health damage and potentially death, and that all of their associated family members, etc., etc., etc.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Wardo said:


> I’m playing at bar tomorrow night; plan is to put a water bottle over my head.


So you're saying that your singing is gonna sound a lot better...


----------



## Wardo

Maybe fit a megaphone to the bottle .. lol


----------



## knight_yyz

Spanish flu was the last pandemic in 1918 with 2o million dead. Personally, I think we're due for a culling. Anyone watch Utopia? And what the hell with all the buying of toilet paper!! If there is one thing that watching movies has taught me, it's Twinkies that you need to survive the apocolypse!!


----------



## mhammer

Wardo said:


> I’m playing at bar tomorrow night; plan is to put a water bottle over my head.


If you ever get the chance, get an empty of one of those great big 20L water bottles used for drinking fountains, that you see stacked up at the front of the grocery store. Just like a regular 2L or smaller bottle, you can blow across the top and produce a tone. However, because of the internal volume, that tone produced by the big bottle is waaaayyyyyyy down low. Place it against your chest when you blow, and it's like hugging a whale or an ocean liner. You feel it through your bones. Pure subwoofer. Note that the rubber stopper lid has to be removed for it to work.


----------



## Wardo

mhammer said:


> If you ever get the chance, get an empty of one of those great big 20L water bottles used for drinking fountains, that you see stacked up at the front of the grocery store. Just like a regular 2L or smaller bottle, you can blow across the top and produce a tone. However, because of the internal volume, that tone produced by the big bottle is waaaayyyyyyy down low. Place it against your chest when you blow, and it's like hugging a whale or an ocean liner. You feel it through your bones. Pure subwoofer. Note that the rubber stopper lid has to be removed for it to work.


Dude I knew in HS took 15 ft of pvc pipe stuck a tuba mouthpiece in one end and attached a stainless steel sink to the other end and ran the entire rig around the inside of an empty silo. Made a lot of noise but proved difficult to transport and take on the road. A smaller version was developed but without the silo. I always thought it needed the silo because the silo aspect was genius whereas the portable version was just a sink with a pipe attached.


----------



## Doug Gifford

Wardo said:


> … whereas the portable version was just a sink with a pipe attached.


common in sinks


----------



## Lola

So I guess I had a mild bout of the stomach flu. I just had some ginger Gravol and some flat ginger ale. I worked so hard today. I am exhausted. I moved a ton of office crap by myself.

The youngsters I work with are so lazy. It’s almost pathetic. What happened to the so called work ethic of discipline and hard work? Kids now a days rarely if ever possess this mindset.


----------



## vadsy

Lola said:


> So I guess I had a mild bout of the stomach flu. I just had some ginger Gravol and some flat ginger ale. I worked so hard today. I am exhausted. I moved a ton of office crap by myself.
> 
> The youngsters I work with are so lazy. It’s almost pathetic. What happened to the so called work ethic of discipline and hard work? Kids now a days rarely if ever possess these skills.


you should have stayed home and got better, then those lazy youngsters would have had to move all that office stuff by themselves.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Lola said:


> The youngsters I work with are so lazy


A couple of the local body shops (automotive, you perverts) can't find anyone to work. They hire young people and as soon as they find out there is actual work and getting dirty involved, they quit.


----------



## vadsy

Jim DaddyO said:


> A couple of the local body shops (automotive, you perverts) can't find anyone to work. They hire young people and as soon as they find out there is actual work and getting dirty involved, they quit.


just so you know, body shops are one of the hardest industries when it comes to turnover. the old and young quit equally, the old actually considering this sort of work beneath them on account of the magic respect they've somehow earned. but regardless, most quit as soon as they find out how shitty it is.


----------



## knight_yyz

My boss just hired a young guy a few days ago. He worked 2 hours and went home. Never came back.


----------



## Wardo

All of the people I’ve worked with over the last 10 years are from Ukraine and Russia. Some of them are half my age, all are well educated and when given the opportunity they run with it. They work without supervision other than direction on issues that come up. If I’m not there things still get done and my clerks come to me and say this needs to be done now etc. or I’ve booked you for a telephone conference with so and so next week.

Best is to find people with initiative and let them run their own show rather than be on them all the time. Unfortunately that business model has never worked for me when it comes to people who grew up here - second, third generation etc.


----------



## Distortion

Jim DaddyO said:


> A couple of the local body shops (automotive, you perverts) can't find anyone to work. They hire young people and as soon as they find out there is actual work and getting dirty involved, they quit.


my experience working in two body shops as a 18/19 year old is 100% of body shop owners are pricks. That's my conclusion after working for two. Also you are usually working for his whole family. Glad I left that behind.


----------



## JBFairthorne

100%...of two? You might need a larger sampling to make a statement like that.


----------



## Private Hudson

The NBA season was just suspended ...


----------



## Milkman

Wow, getting real now. Olympics are sure to be cancelled or postponed.


----------



## Verne

Tom Hanks and his wife have both tested positive.


----------



## Dorian2

Trump has stopped Travel to and from most of Europe. Isn't going to get any better folks.


----------



## leftysg

Private Hudson said:


> The NBA season was just suspended ...


Can't imagine that NHL or MLB won't follow suit. It'll only take a positive test to cause one team to be exposed and essentially eliminated from participation. At that point, all will shut down. Maybe the Raps reign will continue and the Leafs drought as well.


----------



## Milkman

Not to panic, but it may be time to just lock the planet down for a month.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Anyone got anymore jokes or corona beer memes they want to share? Let's get it together folks. We are in for some ugly times.


----------



## Verne

@GuitarsCanada ......... quick enough for you?


----------



## Jim DaddyO

vadsy said:


> just so you know, body shops are one of the hardest industries when it comes to turnover. the old and young quit equally, the old actually considering this sort of work beneath them on account of the magic respect they've somehow earned. but regardless, most quit as soon as they find out how shitty it is.





Distortion said:


> my experience working in two body shops as a 18/19 year old is 100% of body shop owners are pricks. That's my conclusion after working for two. Also you are usually working for his whole family. Glad I left that behind.


I must be the odd guy out then. I enjoyed what little work I did in body shops and found the people to be pretty good. Owners and workers. The only reason I left was for greener pastures, or what I thought was greener pastures. Prep work, sand blasting, mixing paints, spreading bondo and shaping it, spraying primer. I never got to the point where I was forming and welding and doing paint, but I liked it.


----------



## davetcan

Dorian2 said:


> Trump has stopped Travel to and from most of Europe. Isn't going to get any better folks.


There are likely many thousands of US citizens on vacation in Europe right now. Getting them home, and perhaps in to quarantine will be a challenge, to say the least.


----------



## Milkman

I have friends in Japan who visited the affected region in China as recently as January.

So far they’re all ok.

As I am just six months past major heart surgery and prone to chest infections, I really don’t need this. I took the flu shot for the first time in many years to avoid getting sick. I’d love to get another six months of water under the bridge (healing time) before I have to fight off some weird sh$t like Covid-19.

Where’s that lamb’s blood....


----------



## Milkman

leftysg said:


> Can't imagine that NHL or MLB won't follow suit. It'll only take a positive test to cause one team to be exposed and essentially eliminated from participation. At that point, all will shut down. Maybe the Raps reign will continue and the Leafs drought as well.


The Leafs drought one way or another.


(sorry)


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Dorian2 said:


> Trump has stopped Travel to and from most of Europe. Isn't going to get any better folks.


Well, the horse has bolted. Now close the barn doors? It's already in the country so it's a little late. Likely more to come getting citizens abroad back home on top of that. 1 asymptomatic case roaming around is all it takes, and odds are, that is already happening.


----------



## Milkman

I’d say it’s only a matter of days before Trump closes the borders altogether.


----------



## vadsy

Milkman said:


> Where’s that lamb’s blood....


at the foot of the cross, brother


----------



## Milkman

Need some above my door until this pestilence passes.


----------



## Private Hudson

Milkman said:


> I’d say it’s only a matter of days before Trump closes the borders altogether.


Probably. What he really needs to do is internal. Tests tests and more tests. Find out who has it. Isolate and stop travel. 

The markets didnt like his approach either. They are all down, including the american futures. 

The only way out of this shit sandwich is a miracle vaccine.


----------



## StratCat

NBA season suspended until further notice. Wow!


----------



## Lincoln

Milkman said:


> I’d say it’s only a matter of days before Trump closes the borders altogether.


That should force everyone to "buy american". Is that the ultimate goal here?


----------



## vadsy

StratCat said:


> NBA season suspended until further notice. Wow!


yea, and Tom hanks is patient zero. Illuminati plant to bring balance to the world


----------



## allthumbs56

Lincoln said:


> That should force everyone to "buy american". Is that the ultimate goal here?


It's also pleasing the climate-change crowd - Global CO2 emissions are apparently way down.


----------



## Wardo

vadsy said:


> at the foot of the cross, brother


Too messy - take thee lime in thee coconut and a holy water enema q.i.d. will see you right no problem.


----------



## vadsy

Milkman said:


> Need some above my door until this pestilence passes.


you can use Chick-Fil-A sauce for that as well. I saw it in a book somewhere


----------



## Jim DaddyO

vadsy said:


> you can use Chick-Fil-A sauce for that as well. I saw it in a book somewhere


If you saw Chick-fil-a sauce in a book, weren't the pages stuck together?


----------



## Milkman

Chick-fil-A drew a line in the sand.

I’m on the other side of that line.

Someone else can buy their chicken. I won’t.


----------



## Milkman

Lincoln said:


> That should force everyone to "buy american". Is that the ultimate goal here?


Sure, right up until Americans (or Canadians) are obliged to put their money where their mouths are and have to pay $10 for an America towel instead of $2 for a Chinese one.

Everybody wants to save the planet or protect their brothers and sisters until it costs them something.


----------



## torndownunit

I know there likely aren't many Joe Rogan fans on here, but he had a really highly regarded specialist on the show. It's worth a listen.

Michael Osterholm - Wikipedia

Michael Osterholm: The disease expert who warned us (opinion) - CNN


----------



## danielSunn0)))

torndownunit said:


> I know there likely aren't many Joe Rogan fans on here, but he had a really highly regarded specialist on the show. It's worth a listen.
> 
> Michael Osterholm: The disease expert who warned us (opinion) - CNN



I wasn't concerned about this virus at all, and even more resigned to the idea that this was some kind of a scare tactic from the powers-that-be sort of thing. This podcast opened my eyes a bit more about it though, definitely a little more concerned. Definitely worth a listen to get a decent grasp of what's going on from a professional.


----------



## rockinbluesfan

Always hated those tear away plastic bags in the fruit and veg. section of the grocery stores. People lick their fingers to be able to open the bag, then pick up an apple - don't want that one and put it back. And then the hands go back on the cart handle.


----------



## torndownunit

danielSunn0))) said:


> I wasn't concerned about this virus at all, and even more resigned to the idea that this was some kind of a scare tactic from the powers-that-be sort of thing. This podcast opened my eyes a bit more about it though, definitely a little more concerned. Definitely worth a listen to get a decent grasp of what's going on from a professional.


I am not really in the at risk demographic for serious issues, and I follow a healthy lifestyle (which is emphasized in this podcast). I also work from home, so I have limited exposure to people in a work environment. But, I am convinced that I don't really need to be attending any large events for awhile, and I will be even more cautious about my health. I am definitely more worried about my Dad though who is 77 and is very much in the at risk demographic.


----------



## 12 stringer

This virus may well cripple me financially if not physically. I am more worried (right now) by the former.


----------



## davetcan

12 stringer said:


> This virus may well cripple me financially if not physically. I am more worried (right now) by the former.


"The budget will balance itself".


----------



## torndownunit

12 stringer said:


> This virus may well cripple me financially if not physically. I am more worried (right now) by the former.


I don't really know what this will do to my business (web development). It could result in people focusing more on online stuff, I have no idea. But I feel awful for some of my clients that this will with no question affect.


----------



## Guitar101

rockinbluesfan said:


> Always hated those tear away plastic bags in the fruit and veg. section of the grocery stores. People lick their fingers to be able to open the bag, then pick up an apple - don't want that one and put it back. And then the hands go back on the cart handle.


Good point but their pretty stupid licking the fingers that just came off of the cart handle. I look for the sprayers that keep the vegetables moist. It's usually wet around them.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## 1SweetRide

rockinbluesfan said:


> Always hated those tear away plastic bags in the fruit and veg. section of the grocery stores. People lick their fingers to be able to open the bag, then pick up an apple - don't want that one and put it back. And then the hands go back on the cart handle.


Grocery stores are gross. We've signed up for GoodFood. I've got coupons for $80.00 off in case anyone wants to try it. Hardly go grocery shopping anymore.


----------



## allthumbs56

12 stringer said:


> This virus may well cripple me financially if not physically. I am more worried (right now) by the former.


I hear you. I've just revised my retirement plan and now I have to die 5 years sooner


----------



## allthumbs56

Time for a more positive article?

Coronavirus: Ten reasons why you ought not to panic


----------



## Lola

This is absolute killing our stock portfolio. I know it’s devastating but it will bounce back like it did with SARS and the H1N1 fiasco that happened. Just don’t know how long that will be. My husband particularly is going crazy over this. We have lost a boat load of $ over the last two weeks. The stock market is jus taking a shit kicking.


----------



## danielSunn0)))

torndownunit said:


> I am not really in the at risk demographic for serious issues, and I follow a healthy lifestyle (which is emphasized in this podcast). I also work from home, so I have limited exposure to people in a work environment. But, I am convinced that I don't really need to be attending any large events for awhile, and I will be even more cautious about my health. I am definitely more worried about my Dad though who is 77 and is very much in the at risk demographic.


I'm in the same boat as you. 31 and I keep active while being generally healthy. I do live downtown Toronto though, which sucks. 
My concern right now are a bit my parents; they're only 52 & 54 but they both smoke quite a bit and my father is active (we frame houses together), but my mother not so much. At least they're not obese too. My grandmother is going through chemo though, so that freaks me out most in terms of family at risk. 



12 stringer said:


> This virus may well cripple me financially if not physically. I am more worried (right now) by the former.


I'm worried about my financial state too. I, like so many others in this country, still live on a cheque-to-cheque basis, plus my business owes the CRA and I'm paying arrears payments to try and catch up. If I end up getting quarantined, or the worksites start shutting down for an extended period of time, I'll be in a pretty scary financial vice.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Lola said:


> This is absolute killing our stock portfolio. I know it’s devastating but it will bounce back like it did with SARS and the H1N1 fiasco that happened. Just don’t know how long that will be. My husband particularly is going crazy over this. We have lost a boat load of $ over the last two weeks. The stock market is jus taking a shit kicking.


Unless you need to sell, you haven't lost anything. I'm confident too it will bounce back. I feel it will take longer though. Buy stocks in toilet paper! Once the vaccine is announced, panic will subside.


----------



## 1SweetRide

danielSunn0))) said:


> I'm in the same boat as you. 31 and I keep active while being generally healthy. I do live downtown Toronto though, which sucks.
> My concern right now are a bit my parents; they're only 52 & 54 but they both smoke quite a bit and my father is active (we frame houses together), but my mother not so much. At least they're not obese too. My grandmother is going through chemo though, so that freaks me out most in terms of family at risk.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm worried about my financial state too. I, like so many others in this country, still live on a cheque-to-cheque basis, plus my business owes the CRA and I'm paying arrears payments to try and catch up. If I end up getting quarantined, or the worksites start shutting down for an extended period of time, I'll be in a pretty scary financial vice.


I hope the government has a decent aide package for workers. Seems like they will but no details yet.


----------



## Doug Gifford

rockinbluesfan said:


> Always hated those tear away plastic bags in the fruit and veg. section of the grocery stores. People lick their fingers to be able to open the bag, then pick up an apple - don't want that one and put it back. And then the hands go back on the cart handle.


Not me. I lick the bag directly.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Doug Gifford said:


> Not me. I lick the bag directly.


And then you put it back on the roller.


----------



## jimsz

Tom Hanks and his wife testing positive.


----------



## 1SweetRide

jimsz said:


> Tom Hanks and his wife testing positive.


They're in Australia aren't they?


----------



## jimsz

1SweetRide said:


> They're in Australia aren't they?


And, in hospital under quarantine.


----------



## jimsz

Some universities in the States asking campus students to go home and perhaps not return after spring break.


----------



## Distortion

I got a form letter E mail from my doctor yesterday." Due to the Out break do not go to the office for any reason ( no walk ins), phone and make arrangements."

I got to laugh they are just going to tell you to go to the hospital and totally side step the whole situation. Also the grocery store is out of toilet paper and powder milk.


----------



## Stephenlouis

Our new currency.


----------



## Stephenlouis

jimsz said:


> And, in hospital under quarantine.


But doing absolutely fine like most reasonably healthy people.


----------



## ZeroGravity

MLS (soccer) suspends all matches for next 30 days, NLL (lacrosse) suspends season until further notice, PGA events will continue with no fans, rumour from SportsNet is that all NHL officials have been told to book flights home but nothing official yet from NHL head office

Update: Australian F1 cancelled


----------



## allthumbs56

Trudeau is self-isolating and Sophie is being tested.


----------



## davetcan

ZeroGravity said:


> MLS (soccer) suspends all matches for next 30 days, NLL (lacrosse) suspends season until further notice, PGA events will continue with no fans, rumour from SportsNet is that all NHL officials have been told to book flights home but nothing official yet from NHL head office
> 
> Update: Australian F1 cancelled


ATP Tennis shut down for 6 weeks.


----------



## vadsy

davetcan said:


> ATP Tennis shut down for 6 weeks.


this is the worst news yet


----------



## reckless toboggan

Stephenlouis said:


> Our new currency.


When we're ski touring in the back country (I spend a lot of time in the Rockies and East Koots) I always bring a roll of toilet paper in my backpack. You go out for a 10 to 14 hour day, it sucks to not have some when you need it. Some people forget or just don't bother to bring any.

It's amazing what people will promise and trade for when miles and hours from an otherwise easy pooping session.

We call toilet paper "mountain money".


----------



## colchar

jimsz said:


> Some universities in the States asking campus students to go home and perhaps not return after spring break.



Harvard has moved all classes online, as has either Lakehead or Laurentian (cannot remember which at the moment).


----------



## jimsz

Two elementary schools here in Surrey have issued letters to the childrens parents that there has been contact with the virus in the schools.


----------



## ZeroGravity

davetcan said:


> ATP Tennis shut down for 6 weeks.


I think the flood gates are open now, every news update has more and more. Juno Awards cancelled, Duke University has cancelled classes, More NCAA spring sports cancelled. There was a rumour (emphasis on unsubstantiated rumour) that Carleton U asked students to stay in their residence rooms because of a possible case, but no update to actually verify. I suspect there will be quite a few of those kinds of things happening now as well.

Specifically in Ottawa, a second confirmed case (travel from Italy) and an assessment centre being set up at Brewer Park.


----------



## colchar

ZeroGravity said:


> Duke University has cancelled classes



No it hasn't. Harvard has, but not Duke.


----------



## ZeroGravity

colchar said:


> No it hasn't. Harvard has, but not Duke.


Classes - Coronavirus Response

Clarification - like other institutions such as Harvard, they suspended on-campus classes and extended break in order to switch to online. I don't think I've heard of anyone outright canceling classes.


----------



## davetcan

colchar said:


> Harvard has moved all classes online, as has either Lakehead or Laurentian (cannot remember which at the moment).


What? They can't do that, haven't they discussed it with the Ontario teachers unions?


----------



## davetcan

ZeroGravity said:


> I think the flood gates are open now, every news update has more and more. Juno Awards cancelled, Duke University has cancelled classes, More NCAA spring sports cancelled. There was a rumour (emphasis on unsubstantiated rumour) that Carleton U asked students to stay in their residence rooms because of a possible case, but no update to actually verify. I suspect there will be quite a few of those kinds of things happening now as well.
> 
> Specifically in Ottawa, a second confirmed case (travel from Italy) and an assessment centre being set up at Brewer Park.


I had to laugh yesterday, but wanted to cry, when Freeland was asked if we were considering following the lead of the US and closing our borders to some people. She said we needn't worry as people entering the country from places like China and Italy were being thoroughly screened. Meanwhile people getting off the last AC flight from Rome and landing Montreal were asked how the screening was. They said there wasn't any, they were just handed a fact sheet.


----------



## Milkman

Junos cancelled.


NHL suspends season.
NHL suspends season in response to COVID-19 pandemic | CBC Sports


----------



## boyscout

allthumbs56 said:


> I hear you. I've just revised my retirement plan and now I have to die 5 years sooner


I have a stock that was worth over $70 months ago (I didn't pay that) and is now worth $16 and still falling. It was part of my retirement plan. Plans being revised everywhere. Wooooo han!


----------



## butterknucket

Milkman said:


> Junos cancelled.
> 
> 
> NHL suspends season.
> NHL suspends season in response to COVID-19 pandemic | CBC Sports


That's ok, no one cares about the Junos anyway.


----------



## colchar

ZeroGravity said:


> Classes - Coronavirus Response
> 
> Clarification - like other institutions such as Harvard, they suspended on-campus classes and extended break in order to switch to online. I don't think I've heard of anyone outright canceling classes.



I checked their Coronavirus page before posting earlier and that notice wasn't there. 

Nobody is outright cancelling classes, they are switching them online. I am still shocked my college hasn't done so yet. Finishing the term online is no big deal, but I am concerned that they might cancel summer term outright which would mean I don't get paid. That being said, they could just go with online classes in which case I would be fine because I am trained to teach those, and already do teach them, so profs like me will be given summer term classes before others are.


----------



## ZeroGravity

colchar said:


> I checked their Coronavirus page before posting earlier and that notice wasn't there.
> 
> Nobody is outright cancelling classes, they are switching them online. I am still shocked my college hasn't done so yet. Finishing the term online is no big deal, but I am concerned that they might cancel summer term outright which would mean I don't get paid. That being said, they could just go with online classes in which case I would be fine because I am trained to teach those, and already do teach them, so profs like me will be given summer term classes before others are.


I guess the biggest hit would be those faculties like sciences and engineering that require labs.


----------



## allthumbs56

davetcan said:


> What? They can't do that, haven't they discussed it with the Ontario teachers unions?


Don't they know how much that's gonna hurt the kids?


----------



## guitarman2

Milkman said:


> Junos cancelled.
> 
> 
> NHL suspends season.
> NHL suspends season in response to COVID-19 pandemic | CBC Sports


Thats too bad. I really thought the leafs were going to go all the way this year. On a serious note I was hoping to watch my Bruins hoist the cup.


----------



## Guitar101

You guys are all Debbie/Donald Downers. Try to keep positive.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

There is a problem with closing schools, as evidenced by Italy. They closed schools, the university/college crowd went out to bars and gatherings and spread it like wild fire. Now the country is on total shutdown. Not all the students fault, but it had an effect. WHO reports death toll to those at risk; elderly, smokers, obese (a lot of N. America) could be from 3.5% to 15%.

Take note that many health care workers are also parents (70% I think I heard). Keeping kids home means someone has to stay with them. What are the kids going to do? You can only keep them inside for so long and then the little petri dishes go out and play. They may get it but are not affected as much, to the point of not getting symptoms, but they carry it around. Closing schools may be one of the more dangerous options by taking health care workers from their jobs. Yes, it can be spread around schools. There is no good option here.


----------



## colchar

ZeroGravity said:


> I guess the biggest hit would be those faculties like sciences and engineering that require labs.



Anything with experiments running that have to be monitored!

And I just tried to catch the Duke basketball game, but the university has suspended all athletics indefinitely.


----------



## guitarman2

Jim DaddyO said:


> There is a problem with closing schools, as evidenced by Italy. They closed schools, the university/college crowd went out to bars and gatherings and spread it like wild fire. Now the country is on total shutdown. Not all the students fault, but it had an effect. WHO reports death toll to those at risk; elderly, smokers, obese (a lot of N. America) could be from 3.5% to 15%.
> 
> Take note that many health care workers are also parents (70% I think I heard). Keeping kids home means someone has to stay with them. What are the kids going to do? You can only keep them inside for so long and then the little petri dishes go out and play. They may get it but are not affected as much, to the point of not getting symptoms, but they carry it around. Closing schools may be one of the more dangerous options by taking health care workers from their jobs. Yes, it can be spread around schools. There is no good option here.


I don't think kids have gone outside for years. I know theres lots of kids living on my street yet even in the summer the streets are a ghost town. IPhones, IPads, computers, laptops, video games, given the choice kids today would have no problem self isolating.


----------



## Distortion

guitarman2 said:


> I don't think kids have gone outside for years. I know theres lots of kids living on my street yet even in the summer the streets are a ghost town. IPhones, IPads, computers, laptops, video games, given the choice kids today would have no problem self isolating.


Most of the kids on my street are house to car or car to house with mom running the taxi..


----------



## ZeroGravity

Ontario government announced all publicly funded schools to stay closed for additional 2 weeks after March break


----------



## allthumbs56

guitarman2 said:


> I don't think kids have gone outside for years. I know theres lots of kids living on my street yet even in the summer the streets are a ghost town. IPhones, IPads, computers, laptops, video games, given the choice kids today would have no problem self isolating.


So they have to self-isolate. So it kills off the Boomers. I can feel their concern


----------



## laristotle

Ignoring coronavirus fears, 3,500 people dressed as Smurfs gather in France to break record
 
_The mayor of Landerneau, Patrick Leclerc, defended the gathering, saying it was necessary levity in a time of “ambient gloom.”_

_“We must not stop living … it was the chance to say that we are alive” Leclerc said to AFP on Tuesday. “We figured that a bit of fun would do us all good at the moment.”_

_The world record for “most people dressed as Smurfs” was previously set in Lauchringen, Germany, when 2,762 people gathered in February, 2019._

_“We figured we wouldn’t worry and that as French people we wouldn’t give up on our attempt to break the world record,” one attendee said to AFP. “And now we’re champions of the world … we’re going to smurferize the coronavirus!.”_


----------



## vadsy

allthumbs56 said:


> So they have to self-isolate. So it kills off the Boomers. I can feel their concern


Imma get me a mcmansion for 37 cents on the dollar and some raggedy looking Les Pauls they left behind


----------



## 1SweetRide

colchar said:


> I checked their Coronavirus page before posting earlier and that notice wasn't there.
> 
> Nobody is outright cancelling classes, they are switching them online. I am still shocked my college hasn't done so yet. Finishing the term online is no big deal, but I am concerned that they might cancel summer term outright which would mean I don't get paid. That being said, they could just go with online classes in which case I would be fine because I am trained to teach those, and already do teach them, so profs like me will be given summer term classes before others are.


They are now. Classes canceled for two weeks following March break in Ontario Public Schools.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Guitar101 said:


> You guys are all Debbie/Donald Downers. Try to keep positive.


Keep positive. Just don’t test positive.


----------



## Lincoln

laristotle said:


> Ignoring coronavirus fears, 3,500 people dressed as Smurfs gather in France to break record
> 
> _The mayor of Landerneau, Patrick Leclerc, defended the gathering, saying it was necessary levity in a time of “ambient gloom.”_
> 
> _“We must not stop living … it was the chance to say that we are alive” Leclerc said to AFP on Tuesday. “We figured that a bit of fun would do us all good at the moment.”_
> 
> _The world record for “most people dressed as Smurfs” was previously set in Lauchringen, Germany, when 2,762 people gathered in February, 2019._
> 
> _“We figured we wouldn’t worry and that as French people we wouldn’t give up on our attempt to break the world record,” one attendee said to AFP. “And now we’re champions of the world … we’re going to smurferize the coronavirus!.”_
> 
> View attachment 299010


There you go. 3,500 people who know they aren't about to die from catching a cold.


----------



## reckless toboggan

laristotle said:


> Ignoring coronavirus fears, 3,500 people dressed as Smurfs gather in France to break record
> 
> _The mayor of Landerneau, Patrick Leclerc, defended the gathering, saying it was necessary levity in a time of “ambient gloom.”_
> 
> _“We must not stop living … it was the chance to say that we are alive” Leclerc said to AFP on Tuesday. “We figured that a bit of fun would do us all good at the moment.”_
> 
> _The world record for “most people dressed as Smurfs” was previously set in Lauchringen, Germany, when 2,762 people gathered in February, 2019._
> 
> _“We figured we wouldn’t worry and that as French people we wouldn’t give up on our attempt to break the world record,” one attendee said to AFP. “And now we’re champions of the world … we’re going to smurferize the coronavirus!.”_
> 
> View attachment 299010


MutherSmurfers!


----------



## vadsy

thats gonna be one crazy orgy


----------



## torndownunit

vadsy said:


> thats gonna be one crazy orgy


Or a lot of blue balls.


----------



## vadsy

you hit that outta the park!


----------



## torndownunit

vadsy said:


> you hit that outta the park!


Thanks, I had to jump on that one.


----------



## reckless toboggan

First of all, Papa Smurf didn't create Smurfette. Gargamel did. She was sent in as Gargamel's evil spy with the intention of destroying the Smurf village. But the overwhelming goodness of the Smurf way of life transformed her. And as for the whole gang-bang scenario - It just couldn't happen. Smurfs are asexual. They don't even have reproductive organs under those little white pants. That's what's so illogical, you know, about being a Smurf. What's the point of living... if you don't have a dick?
- Donnie Darko


----------



## 10409

Public schools will be closed for 3 weeks following spring break in Ontario. That’s a month off for my wife who’s a teacher, stuck at home with our kids who will also have a month off. And I’m back to work roofing so I won’t have to deal with any of it/them. Sometimes life is pretty darn okay.


----------



## danielSunn0)))

mike_oxbig said:


> Public schools will be closed for 3 weeks following spring break in Ontario. That’s a month off for my wife who’s a teacher, stuck at home with our kids who will also have a month off. And I’m back to work roofing so I won’t have to deal with any of it/them. Sometimes life is pretty darn okay.


....unless builders start closing job sites.


----------



## JBFairthorne

You want to know what really worries me?

I read the stats. I read how many people are getting sick. I read how many of those actually die from it. I think about percentages. I try to account for regional factors such as the quality of health care and societal factors. None of that really makes me afraid. It seems to me that for the most part the same people that might die from the flu are the same ones that die from this, the elderly or people with compromised immune systems. 

What really concerns me is...closed schools. Cancelled concerts. Rules against large crowds congregating. Cancelled sport seasons. These things make me concerned that maybe all the other information that I’ve been reading is completely false and it’s much worse than they’re saying OR people are overreacting in a completely irrational way. Both possibilities are scary in their own way.


----------



## mhammer

1SweetRide said:


> They are now. Classes cancelled for two weeks following March break in Ontario Public Schools.


Consider that families often go somewhere out of town for March break. They may have to self-isolate for 2 weeks anyway, when they return, in which case you'll have two classes of students: those who were in school and those who miss 2 weeks, which will screw up a lot. If everybody just stays home for the 2 weeks after break, whether they went away or not, that evens everything out for everyone.


----------



## torndownunit

JBFairthorne said:


> You want to know what really worries me?
> 
> I read the stats. I read how many people are getting sick. I read how many of those actually die from it. I think about percentages. I try to account for regional factors such as the quality of health care and societal factors. None of that really makes me afraid. It seems to me that for the most part the same people that might die from the flu are the same ones that die from this, the elderly or people with compromised immune systems.
> 
> What really concerns me is...closed schools. Cancelled concerts. Rules against large crowds congregating. Cancelled sport seasons. These things make me concerned that maybe all the other information that I’ve been reading is completely false and it’s much worse than they’re saying OR people are overreacting in a completely irrational way. Both possibilities are scary in their own way.


You should check out the podcast I posted earlier. Whether you like Joe Rogan or not, it's one of the better breakdowns of all of this you will hear. From my understanding, the health organizations here downplayed things to an extent, and did it for too long. While it's not a huge risk to healthy people,it's definitely a risk to certain demographics. And you can see how quickly it's managing to spread. And I guess they key thing is, they just aren't really sure about it nor are they close to a vaccine.


----------



## mhammer

JBFairthorne said:


> You want to know what really worries me?
> 
> I read the stats. I read how many people are getting sick. I read how many of those actually die from it. I think about percentages. I try to account for regional factors such as the quality of health care and societal factors. None of that really makes me afraid. It seems to me that for the most part the same people that might die from the flu are the same ones that die from this, the elderly or people with compromised immune systems.
> 
> What really concerns me is...closed schools. Cancelled concerts. Rules against large crowds congregating. Cancelled sport seasons. These things make me concerned that maybe all the other information that I’ve been reading is completely false and it’s much worse than they’re saying OR people are overreacting in a completely irrational way. Both possibilities are scary in their own way.


Nah. Even if there was a vaccine or medication, you can't send spraying crop-duster planes over municipalities. 

So how do you put the kybosh on contagion? Basically you just put a space between people for a while until everyone who currently has the virus becomes noncontagious. I also think it bears noting that we become less conscious of our actions in densely social situations. So it's easy to _tell _people not to spread their finger juice and spittle droplets on others, but much harder for those people to abide by that advice when they're in large groups. On my own, I can sneeze into my hand, walk over to the bathroom, nudge the tap with my elbow, and wash my hands before I touch anything else. At a club or a school, I'm likely going to touch several dozen surfaces and possibly people before I get to a washroom to make my body surface less contagious. I'm also likely to be distracted by others and not follow up on proper anti-contagion behaviours, even if I plan/intend to.

As for "how many die from it", all the preliminary stats we have come from those whose health state suggested some kind of immediate diagnostic assessment was warranted. It does NOT include those people who are _carrying_ the virus but feel perfectly fine and likely won't get sick. Those folks have not, so far, been included in the denominator. The denominator is primarily people who feel like crap, got tested, and got a positive diagnosis. As test kits get more widely distributed, and people who don't feel sick but just want to feel safe get tested, that denominator will get bigger. Personally, I don't anticipate that the mortality rate will be_ negligible_, but it _will_ be progressively lower as public health officials get a better sense of how prevalent the virus is among the general population. The 3% figure is derived from those who feel pretty sick, and get sicker. Most of us walk around carrying all manner of pathogens, but for one reason or another they don't overwhelm us.

That said, some of us here, like member Ship of Fools, have compromised health already. I hope they all stay safe until this cloud passes.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Soylent Green is people!


----------



## Sneaky

We have cancelled our trip to Europe this summer. Wife has plans to see her mom in Toronto in a couple weeks. She was going to go to Blue Jays home opener, now cancelled, and unlikely she would even be allowed into her mom’s care home, so the whole trip will likely be cancelled. I have tix for Roger Waters in July that will likely be cancelled. I’m am expecting we might see a full on lockdown here in the next week or two. Lost a fuck ton of my retirement saving this week too.

Fuck Covid19.


----------



## 10409

danielSunn0))) said:


> ....unless builders start closing job sites.


I don’t work for builders just residential....and lol builders here wouldn’t close job sites for anything less than a court order


----------



## 10409

I was installing gutters today. Screws held in the mouth is how she goes. By about noon I realized they’re made in China. Oops.


----------



## davetcan

I'll be shocked if about 80% of the kids, and their mothers, don't spend most of that 2 weeks hanging out at the mall.



mhammer said:


> Consider that families often go somewhere out of town for March break. They may have to self-isolate for 2 weeks anyway, when they return, in which case you'll have two classes of students: those who were in school and those who miss 2 weeks, which will screw up a lot. If everybody just stays home for the 2 weeks after break, whether they went away or not, that evens everything out for everyone.


----------



## 10409

davetcan said:


> I'll be shocked if about 80% of the kids, and their mothers, don't spend most of that 2 weeks hanging out at the mall.


I’ll bet there’s finally vacancy at the ikea kids pen


----------



## Jim DaddyO

So my wife found this on Facebook. From a person living in Italy and what is going on there. I copied it and I am pasting it here.

*Danielle Sorrell Moran*
Yesterday at 6:25 AM · 
Because we're living in Italy during the COVID-19 epidemic, people have asked me questions about it. They've asked about whether the media is hyping it up too much or whether there's real cause for concern. They've asked what it's like living in lockdown mode. I've also seen a lot of people compare it to the flu and say there's no need to panic. I'm not telling people to panic, but I am telling people to prepare for disruptions to their daily lives and try to get away from the flu vs. COVID-19 comparison. At this point (Wednesday, March 11, a little before midday in Italy), the U.S. has just over 1,000 confirmed cases of COVID-19. Two weeks ago, Italy had about 630 confirmed cases. As of Monday night's data, there were over 10,000 confirmed cases and 653 deaths. So there have now been more deaths than there were total cases two weeks ago. This virus moves rapidly once it takes hold.
While the death rate and demographic effects of the virus may be reassuring to some people, the hospitalization rate is what should cause major concern. It's a supply and demand problem. People want to compare this to the flu, but healthcare infrastructure around the world knows how to plan for the flu - there are fairly predictable patterns every year. The problem here in Italy (and previously in China) is a rapid spike in cases that overwhelms hospital infrastructure and healthcare workers. They're essentially having to convert all the routine wings of hospitals into intake and treatment for COVID-19 patients. There aren't enough ventilators to go around, so doctors and nurses are having to decide who not to treat. People over 65 and those younger than 65 with co-morbities often cannot receive adequate treatment. Italy is calling in retired doctors to help. Despite protocols for protection, some healthcare professionals are contracting the virus and having to go into quarantine, which exacerbates the supply/demand problem. Northern Italy is the wealthiest part of Italy, and the Lombardy region, where the majority of cases are, is the richest part of that wealthy region, so the hospitals there are the best in Italy. What really worries Italians is what will happen when the virus takes hold in the poorer regions of the south where hospital infrastructure isn't as good as in the north.
The U.S. has those same discrepancies between hospital infrastructure and healthcare worker availability across different regions and urban/rural divides. Think about what the impact of this virus on the healthcare system could mean to you. If you or someone you love has a heart attack, a stroke, gets into a major car accident, or your kid has a serious injury, will a hospital overwhelmed with COVID-19 be able to handle its "normal" level of trauma while coping with the virus? Also, routine and preventative care is mostly suspended during this time. This is not just a straight comparison of flu vs. COVID-19. They are different viruses with different impacts on communities.
As for how life is during lockdown, it's really not all that bad. We've been dealing with the flu in our house, so for a portion of the time at least, we wanted to be snuggled up at home anyway. We're doing virtual school, and thankfully, our internet has held up well so far. (Italy has pretty bad internet connectivity, so some of my friends haven't been so lucky.) We have enough food to get through a couple weeks if we need to, but we have permission to leave the house to go to the grocery store (1 person per family at a time), work, or medical appointments. We can also go on walks outside as long as we stay in our own comune (town/village). It's really not as bad as we expected it to be. We go a little stir crazy sometimes, but we've caught up on shows, movies, played board games and found toys we had forgotten about. At least it's almost springtime, and there is some sunshine and flowers blooming. As the crisis here worsens, we're actually glad to do whatever we can to lessen our family's risk of contracting or spreading it to others. So do your best to prepare your household to be hunkered down if it comes to that. I've shared some lessons learned before, but here are a few more tips. Make sure you have a working thermometer. We found out ours was broken when we had the flu, and they're sold out everywhere. Make sure you have a printer with plenty of paper and ink in case you end up having to virtual school/homeschool. There's a lot more printing involved that I expected. Pick up some Play-Doh, sidewalk chalk, board games, card games, Legos, and other random fun things you can hide and then bring out one at a time when things get desperate at your house. My kids haven't done Play-Doh in a long time and have spent several hours over the last few days playing with it. Make sure you have enough OTC meds at your house to last you a couple weeks. (Think about alternating Tylenol and Motrin for kids for a few days when they're sick). You will likely be instructed not to bring a feverish child to the doctor (and you probably won't want to) unless they are experiencing other serious problems. So be prepared to treat regular illnesses at home. And PLEASE don't hoard things. Just get enough for your household to last two weeks. You will have access to stores, and they will continue to stock them.
Finally, keep Italy in your prayers. Pray for the U.S., too, that there will be adequate preparation and response. Pray for all the world, because viruses don't respect borders. Pray for the families losing loved ones. Pray for the families losing income and financial security due to the containment measures. Prepare, pray, and be grateful to wake up every day.


----------



## vadsy

davetcan said:


> I'll be shocked if about 80% of the kids, and their mothers, don't spend most of that 2 weeks hanging out at the mall.


yep, the mall. buying up all the ribbon candy, comic books, penny whistles and moon pies. Hopefully the virus doesn’t cause a shortage of moon pies


----------



## vadsy

reckless toboggan said:


> Soylent Green is people!


scientists are hard at work on a cure and some snacks


----------



## reckless toboggan

Dicks.

‘We’re hustlers’: Amid coronavirus fears, this couple has made more than $100,000 reselling Lysol wipes | The Star

Manny Ranga and Violeta Perez who are "developers" in Vancouver, currently of Violeta Development Ltd.

They are so proud of their actions they allowed for an interview and bragged of their exploits and profits in a national newspaper/website.

I, for one, won't forget this and will never purchase any "developer" services, or any other thing they are ever involved in, or anyone associated with them. Ever.

YMMV/YDY

Nothing illegal about what their doing, but hey, I vote with my dollars...


----------



## Dorian2

Time to start holding Retailers accountable for letting this happen. Yes, I'm looking at YOU Costco.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Dorian2 said:


> Time to start holding Retailers accountable for letting this happen. Yes, I'm looking at YOU Costco.


I agree.

It would be so nice if we didn't have to always play down to the sh**tiest humans.

Even just once.

Too bad it's necessary to hold Costco accountable for people who are so obviously sh**ty humans in the first place. 

How about we just hold the sh**ty people themselves accountable for their own actions...I have a feeling the news article will go a long way toward that.


----------



## 10409

Dorian2 said:


> Time to start holding Retailers accountable for letting this happen. Yes, I'm looking at YOU Costco.


What would you suggest? They’re a store, they sell stuff for a living. If they even tried to limit purchases to their customers who pay for the subscription, I know personally I wouldn’t renew my membership.


----------



## Dorian2

mike_oxbig said:


> What would you suggest? They’re a store, they sell stuff for a living. If they even tried to limit purchases to their customers who pay for the subscription, I know personally I wouldn’t renew my membership.


Limit the quantities. We had to buy shit wipe online because there wasn't any at Costco. We're just doing a regular stock up on supplies while they let these dumb shits cart as much as they want out without a question. This is far beyond retail at this point.


----------



## 10409

Dorian2 said:


> Limit the quantities.


It’s literally a bulk store


----------



## reckless toboggan

Dorian2 said:


> Limit the quantities. We had to buy shit wipe online because there wasn't any at Costco. We're just doing a regular stock up on supplies while they let these dumb shits cart as much as they want without a question.


This.

Costco limits quantities on tires and hot tubs, ...they can limit quantities for anything they want.

You can not buy 1000 hot tubs or 2000 tires from Costco and set up a tire store or a hot tub store, or resell them online.

This is no different.


----------



## 10409

Idk I don’t have sympathy because I don’t understand the logic. If you’re not sick, and buying all the purell before sick people can makes sense to you, you’re sick.


----------



## 10409

You’re right 200 is the max per order. Wonder how many hot tub outlets have 200 in stock. You might be on to something here.


----------



## reckless toboggan

mike_oxbig said:


> What would you suggest? They’re a store, they sell stuff for a living. *If they even tried to limit purchases to their customers who pay for the subscription, I know personally I wouldn’t renew my membership.*





mike_oxbig said:


> It’s literally a bulk store





mike_oxbig said:


> You’re right 200 is the max per order. Wonder how many hot tub outlets have 200 in stock. You might be on to something here.


Live up to your word.

Cancel your membership.


----------



## vadsy

don’t be silly. Renew it. And don’t be ashamed when you sell those hot tubs for a profit. This isn’t Russia


----------



## Jim DaddyO

reckless toboggan said:


> Dicks.
> 
> ‘We’re hustlers’: Amid coronavirus fears, this couple has made more than $100,000 reselling Lysol wipes | The Star
> 
> Manny Ranga and Violeta Perez who are "developers" in Vancouver, currently of Violeta Development Ltd.
> 
> They are so proud of their actions they allowed for an interview and bragged of their exploits and profits in a national newspaper/website.
> 
> I, for one, won't forget this and will never purchase any "developer" services, or any other thing they are ever involved in, or anyone associated with them. Ever.
> 
> YMMV/YDY
> 
> Nothing illegal about what their doing, but hey, I vote with my dollars...


That comes awefully close to what they used to call "War profiteering" in my books.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Jim DaddyO said:


> That comes awefully close to what they used to call "War profiteering" in my books.


Yup.


----------



## 10409

But why? Costco is great. I don’t understand anyone suffering frustration beyond waiting in line for no reason. It’s the year of our lord two thousand and twenty, order it online in as big of quantities as your greedy heart desires. People are going all chicken little but screw it, enjoy the show as a sane bystander. If that’s what you are.


----------



## reckless toboggan

vadsy said:


> don’t be silly. Renew it. And don’t be ashamed when you sell those hot tubs for a profit. This isn’t Russia


It isn't Russia, but no one could ever trust him again.

I mean he literally typed:


mike_oxbig said:


> If they even tried to limit purchases to their customers who pay for the subscription, I know personally I wouldn’t renew my membership.


On the other hand, he does have really good taste in toilet paper. I would definitely take a dump at his house.


----------



## 10409

reckless toboggan said:


> Live up to your word.
> 
> Cancel your membership.


There’s a cap on the number of items you can put in your checkout online. 200 seems pretty reasonable but I could inquire about more next time i’m in store. They’d likely have to wait on an alibaba boat but I’m sure it could be done.


----------



## 10409

Could probably order 200 100 times without any issues. Well without issues from Costco. Would probably have to call to up my credit limit.


----------



## vadsy

My hot tub is locally sourced


----------



## 10409

The girls in it aren’t though amiright


----------



## reckless toboggan

mike_oxbig said:


> If they even tried ...


They are limiting your online purchase to 200 mike. You are literally unable to purchase more than 200 items online.


----------



## vadsy

mike_oxbig said:


> The girls in it aren’t though amiright


neither am I, so we go well together


----------



## reckless toboggan

Anyway, Montreal is shutting down all institutional public gathering places and common areas like libraries, arenas etc.


----------



## 10409

Are you one of those people who make no sense in Pictionary so they circle the picture and tap it as if that will help

I’m not cancelling my Costco membership because they’ll only sell me a million dollars worth of hot tubs when your satisfaction line was set at 100 million dollars worth. Grow up.


----------



## 10409

reckless toboggan said:


> Anyway, Montreal is shutting down all institutional public gathering places and common areas like libraries, arenas etc.


100% of Strip clubs are still open I bet


----------



## vadsy

God bless this country


----------



## reckless toboggan

mike_oxbig said:


> 100% of Strip clubs are still open I bet


Well what else are ya gonna do now that everything is closed.

I'm currently bullish on stripjoints, but shorting stripjoints futures.

Get in on it boys.

Also, I'm selling bridges...


----------



## Sneaky

mike_oxbig said:


> 100% of Strip clubs are still open I bet


No germs there.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Western University cancelled classes.


----------



## reckless toboggan

mike_oxbig said:


> Are you one of those people who make no sense in Pictionary so they circle the picture and tap it as if that will help
> 
> I’m not cancelling my Costco membership because they’ll only sell me a million dollars worth of hot tubs when your satisfaction line was set at 100 million dollars worth. Grow up.


No. I'm not.

But I do live up to my word.


----------



## 10409

I always get suckered into arguing with idiots but walking away from this one is pretty easy. But hey, you’re about to get the last word. even if it’s more gibberish that means you won, right?


----------



## Guitar101

They just reported that PM Trudeau's wife Sophie has Covid-19.


----------



## reckless toboggan

mike_oxbig said:


> I always get suckered into arguing with idiots but walking away from this one is pretty easy. But hey, you’re about to get the last word. even if it’s more gibberish that means you won, right?


Have a good night mike.

Stay healthy.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Guitar101 said:


> Trudeau's wife has Covid-19.


Just heard that. What are the chances that Trudeau doesn't have it?

I'm thinking slim to none...

...so would that/does that make him the first World Leader?



Jim DaddyO said:


> Sofie Trudeau tests positive.
> 
> Sophie Grégoire Trudeau diagnosed with COVID-19; PM to remain in isolation





Sneaky said:


> Sophie Trudeau tested positive.


----------



## vadsy

That’s crazy. I heard Tom Hanks and his wife gots it too


----------



## Sneaky

Sophie Trudeau tested positive.


----------



## reckless toboggan

vadsy said:


> That’s crazy. I heard Tom Hanks and his wife gots it too


Oh yah! In my book his wife always gotts it!*

But yah. They both got it. They seem healthy and probably have access to all the best care.

It's going to be the poor weak without medical access who suffer the most, as always.


We are very fortunate to live where we do, and to have access like we do.

*But seriously, Rita Wilson as such a great lady, a really good person.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Sofie Trudeau tests positive.

Sophie Grégoire Trudeau diagnosed with COVID-19; PM to remain in isolation


----------



## 10409




----------



## reckless toboggan

mike_oxbig said:


>


Hahahahaha! Brilliant.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Jury trials in Ontario suspended due to CV19.

Jury trials in Ontario suspended due to COVID-19 outbreak, while trials underway continue at judge’s discretion | The Star

Argentina, Bolivia, Peru, Costa Rica, Paraguay and Honduras enacting travel bans and closing institutions.

Coronavirus: Costa Rica, Peru among several Latin American states ramping up travel bans - National | Globalnews.ca



> Several Latin American countries stepped up measures on Thursday to slow the spread of the coronavirus, halting flights to and from Europe, banning public gatherings and closing schools.


----------



## 10409

Bet out west it sounds like the canucks flames and oilers all won the cup at the same time


----------



## vadsy

mike_oxbig said:


> Bet out west it sounds like the canucks flames and oilers all won the cup at the same time


Didn’t that happen with the Spanish Inquisition 100 years ago,?


----------



## 10409

Dunno man I’ve never been to quisition


----------



## vadsy

mike_oxbig said:


> Dunno man I’ve never been to quisition


My bad, it’s these new dentures. it was a tie and cancellation of the Cup finals due to the Spanish fly in 1919.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Coronavirus: Reports of lengthy lines, shelves running low at several Ontario grocery stores | Globalnews.ca

Why are people buying so much toilet paper now that they're staying home?

Do they really poop at work that much?

On a related note, one time, when I was in my 20s, I didn't have to buy toilet paper for 2 months or so, almost 3 months actually, because I only ever had to poop when I was at work. I mean I had toilet paper at home, I just never had to use it.

But it wasn't like I needed 20 gross of toilet paper when I started pooping at home again.


----------



## colchar

1SweetRide said:


> They are now. Classes canceled for two weeks following March break in Ontario Public Schools.


I was referring to post-secondary schools. I am shocked none have announced anyone diagnosed.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Just for information sake, this article is a really good summary of all that's gone on today, and a bit of what might be coming in the next fews days. Worth a read. (Link below)



> “These are extraordinary times and we have to take every measure possible,” federal Health Minister Patty Hajdu said Thursday, calling COVID-19 “an unprecedented public health crisis.”
> Ms. Hajdu said Canadians should consider staying home during the March Break period to help stall the progress of the disease.
> ...
> Public health experts describe many of these steps as social distancing measures. Their purpose is to reduce contact with others and slow the speed of transmission. Officials hope that such measures will ward off a spike in coronavirus cases and thereby prevent the health system from being overwhelmed.
> ...
> 
> ...Ms. Hajdu said Canadians should consider a “staycation.”
> “There are lots and lots of places in our country that many people have never been to and this would be a great time to stay home,” she said.
> ...
> “Our challenge in the next few weeks is to slow down the contagion,” Mr. Legault said.
> Mr. Legault, who will speak with his provincial counterparts and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Friday, said Ottawa should “seriously consider” closing the borders to prevent accelerating the spread of illness from outside Canada.


So that's the Conservatives and Quebec for closing boarders, and Freeland wouldn't comment on current ongoing US Canada discussions about closing the boarder.

Whatever the case, I'd say it won't be long at all before the Liberals have no choice but to close the boarders as so many other countries have done and are doing.

Canadians urged to stay home to help stall spread of coronavirus


----------



## reckless toboggan

Plenty of toilet paper to go around, Canada’s biggest producer says



> It has been one of the enduring images of the COVID-19 pandemic: empty toilet paper shelves in stores around the world as fearful citizens stockpile staples for long home stays.
> 
> But the head of Canada’s largest producer of toilet tissue says that despite a jump in demand, there’s no shortage of product in Canada.
> 
> “We’ve got all the raw material, we’ve got all the assets running, we have all the production, our sites are at full capacity to recover from this spike," said Dino Bianco, chief executive officer of Mississauga-based Kruger Products LP, maker of Cashmere and Purex brand toilet paper, which has a 33-per-cent market share. (Kruger also makes Scotties facial tissues, the market leader in its category, and Sponge Towels paper towels.) “You’re going to see it catch up in days and weeks."
> 
> *He added: "We’re essentially selling it at exactly the same price to all our customers. Ethically, we do not want to take advantage of a situation that is of great consumer and community need.”*


Wellllll sh*********t.

That's my kind of company.


----------



## colchar

The panic buying is being undertaken mostly by those of a certain demographic, and it is fucking pathetic. The fact that I live in Brampton makes it that much worse because there are so many of them here. They are hoarding all kinds of stuff and shelves in supermarkets are bare. And there are lineups so long in some stores (ie. Walmart) that people are actually taking pictures of the crowds while they wait to pay. I was in one today (not for any kind of panic buying, but because I was looking for some Romaine) and walked out in disgust. I walked into a Food Basics and the same thing happened, I walked right back out again. I honestly wanted to slap the stupid out of those people.

And before anyone thinks it, I am not being racist when I say it is those of a certain demographic who are doing this because others have noticed it too. I was listening to Global News Radio (AM640) while out, and they were commenting on it too. Their theory was that many of them are new to Canada and aren't used to living in a place with a functioning government and supply system, so they are convinced that the stores are about to run out of everything. The fact that they have all gone out _en masse_ to buy things up and have thus left shelves empty has simply reinforced their belief. They were saying that industry leaders and the various levels of government need to start getting the word out there that here in Canada we are not about to run out of anything, so there is no need to panic buy and to make it look like we are running short.


----------



## colchar

reckless toboggan said:


> Just for information sake, this article is a really good summary of all that's gone on today, and a bit of what might be coming in the next fews days. Worth a read. (Link below)
> 
> 
> 
> So that's the Conservatives and Quebec for closing boarders, and Freeland wouldn't comment on current ongoing US Canada discussions about closing the boarder.
> 
> Whatever the case, I'd say it won't be long at all before the Liberals have no choice but to close the boarders as so many other countries have done and are doing.
> 
> Canadians urged to stay home to help stall spread of coronavirus



If we close the border with the US our economy will be fucked.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Fallon, Colbert, and Meyers have all suspended their shows for 2 weeks.

I'm guessing Cordon and Kimmel won't be far behind...although I'm betting if anyone stays on it'll be Kimmel.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Two confirmed cases from Seattle show that cough and shortness of breath were not symptoms.

Headache, body ache, shivers, mild fever or fever.

Two different papers reporting, two different people (but from the same exposed group) with no respiratory symptoms. Same positive CV19 results.

Here's what this US coronavirus survivor in Seattle learned when she was sick

Early symptoms of US woman, 37, who beat a mild case of coronavirus

I believe I've had this, as I described previously in this thread in a post to @Lola. But the doctors refused to test me because there was no shortness of breath or cough, and I can't pinpoint anyone who has the virus that I've had direct contact with, I haven't directly contacted anyone travelling to the hot spots to the best of my knowledge, and I have not travelled outside of Canada in 2 years.

I've stayed home and self quarantined anyway.

Here's a quote so you can quickly locate it if you care to read it.


reckless toboggan said:


> My wife and I just had this exact same thing.


----------



## reckless toboggan

The criterion for testing is currently:

1. Do you have a cough, shortness of breath, or respiratory issues?

2. Have you traveled to a known hot spot?

3. Have you had direct contact with anyone with the virus?

My answer to all of these was either "No", or "I don't know and there's no way for me to confidently say Yes". 

No test for you. You do not have CV19. That's their diagnosis.

Alberta's top doctor for CV19 Deena Hinshaw:

"Albertans who have not been directly in contact with someone who has coronavirus are not at risk, Hinshaw said."
COVID-19: Alberta bans all public gatherings of more than 250 people; 23 Alberta cases confirmed | Calgary Herald

*But if they're not testing people with flu symptoms but with no cough, and that non-test is a diagnosis that those people do not have COVID19, then they are getting this drastically wrong because their whole system is flawed.

And they are sending people with the virus, but with no cough, out to spread the virus. So you can't possibly know if you've had direct contact with someone with the virus because they aren't testing those people who present with no cough.

And worse, they are telling people, if you don't have a cough, and you have not had direct contact, that you do not have COVID19.

You're diagnosed with a clean bill of health as you go out and spread the virus around telling people that you don't have COVID19, precisely as you are infecting them with it.

Then that person feels a bit off and wants to get tested, but answers that they don't have a cough and they've had no direct contact with someone who has the virus...*


----------



## reckless toboggan

Discussions underway over suspending Parliament amid COVID-19 concerns 

Discussions underway over suspending Parliament amid COVID-19 concerns



> Deliberations between high-level House of Commons officials are underway as to whether it's time to suspend the House or if additional precautions would suffice, amid concerns about the spreading novel coronavirus pandemic that's now been confirmed to have infected the prime minister's wife.
> Late Thursday it became increasingly likely that a suspension of parliamentary business is imminent.


Wonder how long before they admit that Justin Trudeau also tested positive?

Again, does than make him the first world leader with it?


----------



## reckless toboggan

Also, in Alberta, if you manage to get through on 811 you select option 5 and are put on hold waiting for personnel,... if they don't get around to you within an hour, it will hang up on you, and you have to start over.

This happened multiple times, on consecutive calls. And we tried this at several times of day, night, and ungodly 3 am night shift radio times.

If you get to option 5 and are allowed to wait for a person to help you, and that person doesn't get to you within an hour, the system will literally disconnect your call, and you will have to start over.


----------



## Lola

I woke up a ago with a really bad earache(so very similar to a bad toothache) and I thought I just had the flu the day but this earache is running down the right side of my throat. My fever is 101.5. I have been eating popsicles for the last 3 hrs.
I am not going to the hospital but my own GP. I don’t think earache is a part of the Corona. I am NOT going to work, just in case. 

It’s been a really exhausting week at work and I could just be run down.


----------



## reckless toboggan

University of Alberta and University of Calgary have suspended classes Friday to discuss options with health professionals, but are currently saying classes will resume Monday.


----------



## torndownunit

Lola said:


> I woke up a ago with a really bad earache(so very similar to a bad toothache) and I thought I just had the flu the day but this earache is running down the right side of my throat. My fever is 101.5. I have been eating popsicles for the last 3 hrs.
> I am not going to the hospital but my own GP. I don’t think earache is a part of the Corona. I am NOT going to work, just in case.
> 
> It’s been a really exhausting week at work and I could just be run down.


There's been other things going around that suck as well. I had an ear issue and chest thing well before the current virus scare that I am still dealing with slight issues from. I am no longer sick and haven't had fever signs for a long time, but my ears still don't feel right at all.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## laristotle




----------



## Milkman

I was never terribly worried about SARS, MERS, Swine Flu, in fact, I travelled through Mexico during the Swine Flu outbreak a few years ago.

Since I had surgery I still have some respiratory issues. It’s not terrible, bit it’s a hell of a good starting point for a shitty virus like this one.

I consider myself high risk, not in terms of getting it, but certainly in terms of fighting it off.


----------



## knight_yyz

Zehr's in Barrie last night... 
www.facebook.com/647115556/posts/10163088345530557/?sfnsn=mo&d=n&vh=i


----------



## laristotle

knight_yyz said:


> Zehr's in Barrie last night...
> www.facebook.com/647115556/posts/10163088345530557/?sfnsn=mo&d=n&vh=i


not available


----------



## Milkman

And then there are lots of people still willing to deliberately expose themselves (and subsequently others) by sitting in movie theaters breathing in recirculated air.

Makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.

Just my opinion, but movies seem like low hanging fruit, obvious activities to cut out for now. People don’t seem to get it and Hollywood wants their money....

COVID-19: How coronavirus is sending the entertainment industry into uncharted territory


----------



## davetcan

2 Canadian companies claiming to have developed vaccines that are zinc based. Already on the way to China for testing. Could still be 6 - 12 months away but it's great news.


----------



## guitarman2

Milkman said:


> And then there are lots of people still willing to deliberately expose themselves (and subsequently others) by sitting in movie theaters breathing in recirculated air.
> 
> Makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.
> 
> Just my opinion, but movies seem like low hanging fruit, obvious activities to cut out for now. People don’t seem to get it and Hollywood wants their money....
> 
> COVID-19: How coronavirus is sending the entertainment industry into uncharted territory


I heard last night they postponed the release of "A Quiet Place 2". I wonder if other movie releases will follow suit. Or they end up closing theaters all together.
I may go to a movie theater once every 3 or 4 years.


----------



## Milkman

guitarman2 said:


> I heard last night they postponed the release of "A Quiet Place 2". I wonder if other movie releases will follow suit. Or they end up closing theaters all together.
> I may go to a movie theater once every 3 or 4 years.


I haven’t been to a movie theater since 2002 (second book of The Lord of the Rings) and have no plans to do so.

Sadly, theaters and production companies will have to make decisions. Otherwise people will show up.

I bought gas this past weekend and watched in horror as the obviously sick attendant coughed all over the debit machine, my status card and my debit card.

Used half a bottle of alcohol wiping everything down.


----------



## Milkman

davetcan said:


> 2 Canadian companies claiming to have developed vaccines that are zinc based. Already on the way to China for testing. Could still be 6 - 12 months away but it's great news.


I hope so.

If not, I hear Jim Baker is selling a cure with traces of silver mixed with water.


----------



## laristotle

reckless toboggan said:


> MutherSmurfers!


Scarborough man tattoos self Smurf blue

_“I feel a renewed optimism about the feasibility of pursuing wild dreams,” he told the outlet. 
“I might become a trillionaire, or move to Mars. Or just carry on selling earrings and get my 
bus fixed up.”_


----------



## Milkman

laristotle said:


> Scarborough man tattoos self Smurf blue
> 
> _“I feel a renewed optimism about the feasibility of pursuing wild dreams,” he told the outlet.
> “I might become a trillionaire, or move to Mars. Or just carry on selling earrings and get my
> bus fixed up.”_
> 
> View attachment 299190
> 
> View attachment 299194


Ah yes, I’m here to interview for the position of....(almost anything)......


----------



## 1SweetRide

Lola said:


> I woke up a ago with a really bad earache(so very similar to a bad toothache) and I thought I just had the flu the day but this earache is running down the right side of my throat. My fever is 101.5. I have been eating popsicles for the last 3 hrs.
> I am not going to the hospital but my own GP. I don’t think earache is a part of the Corona. I am NOT going to work, just in case.
> 
> It’s been a really exhausting week at work and I could just be run down.


That doesn’t sound like much fun. Get better soon.


----------



## Guitar101

So PM Trudeau's wife Sophie has the Covid-19 virus that she got on a speaking engagement in the UK and Trump just instituted a travel ban from all European countries except the UK. What's wrong with this picture.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Milkman said:


> I was never terribly worried about SARS, MERS, Swine Flu, in fact, I travelled through Mexico during the Swine Flu outbreak a few years ago.
> 
> Since I had surgery I still have some respiratory issues. It’s not terrible, bit it’s a hell of a good starting point for a shitty virus like this one.
> 
> I consider myself high risk, not in terms of getting it, but certainly in terms of fighting it off.


Yeah. I’ve been fighting a cough for a few months now. Shortness of breath when prone. Going to see the doctor today finally. Caught it from a bandmate who had it from his kids. He’s still coughing too.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Guitar101 said:


> So PM Trudeau's wife Sophie has the Covid-19 virus that she got on a speaking engagement in the UK and Trump just instituted a travel ban from all European countries except the UK. What's wrong with this picture.


I thought the same thing last night and then the UK said they’ve given up on trying to contain it.


----------



## torndownunit

1SweetRide said:


> Yeah. I’ve been fighting a cough for a few months now. Shortness of breath when prone. Going to see the doctor today finally. Caught it from a bandmate who had it from his kids. He’s still coughing too.


Ya that's my problem as well. I already saw the doctor twice and there wasn't anything to really do but let it runs its course. The part that sucks now is if I have a coughing episode in public while everyone is freaked out.

On the bright side, I can tell you my coughing fits are almost gone finally (I got this at Christmas). I still have tightness in my chest though. That's as much from the stress on it from coughing. At the worst of it, I was coughing so hard I'd almost puke. I was up so many nights.


----------



## Milkman

torndownunit said:


> Ya that's my problem as well. I already saw the doctor twice and there wasn't anything to really do but let it runs its course. The part that sucks now is if I have a coughing episode in public while everyone is freaked out.
> 
> On the bright side, I can tell you my coughing fits are almost gone finally (I got this at Christmas). I still have tightness in my chest though. That's as much from the stress on it from coughing. At the worst of it, I was coughing so hard I'd almost puke. I was up so many nights.


Same here. Every time I cough I worry about people around me cringing in disgust.


----------



## 1SweetRide

torndownunit said:


> Ya that's my problem as well. I already saw the doctor twice and there wasn't anything to really do but let it runs its course. The part that sucks now is if I have a coughing episode in public while everyone is freaked out.
> 
> On the bright side, I can tell you my coughing fits are almost gone finally (I got this at Christmas). I still have tightness in my chest though. That's as much from the stress on it from coughing. At the worst of it, I was coughing so hard I'd almost puke. I was up so many nights.


Exact same situation for me. I suspect I had/have walking pneumonia.


----------



## Milkman

1SweetRide said:


> Exact same situation for me. I suspect I had/have walking pneumonia.


I guess I have the Boogy woogy flu.


----------



## 1SweetRide

colchar said:


> The panic buying is being undertaken mostly by those of a certain demographic, and it is fucking pathetic. The fact that I live in Brampton makes it that much worse because there are so many of them here. They are hoarding all kinds of stuff and shelves in supermarkets are bare. And there are lineups so long in some stores (ie. Walmart) that people are actually taking pictures of the crowds while they wait to pay. I was in one today (not for any kind of panic buying, but because I was looking for some Romaine) and walked out in disgust. I walked into a Food Basics and the same thing happened, I walked right back out again. I honestly wanted to slap the stupid out of those people.
> 
> And before anyone thinks it, I am not being racist when I say it is those of a certain demographic who are doing this because others have noticed it too. I was listening to Global News Radio (AM640) while out, and they were commenting on it too. Their theory was that many of them are new to Canada and aren't used to living in a place with a functioning government and supply system, so they are convinced that the stores are about to run out of everything. The fact that they have all gone out _en masse_ to buy things up and have thus left shelves empty has simply reinforced their belief. They were saying that industry leaders and the various levels of government need to start getting the word out there that here in Canada we are not about to run out of anything, so there is no need to panic buy and to make it look like we are running short.


It’s not the supply right now that’s a concern. It’s the ability for the stores to stay open.


----------



## Guitar101

I got the shot for pneumonia a couple of years ago and it sounds like viral pneumonia is a symptom in the extreme cases of the Covid-19 virus. Anyone know if the pneumonia shot I got will prevent me from getting the viral pneumonia caused by Covid-19?


----------



## Lola

Our McDonald’s in Pickering is drive through only now. The counter ppl are wearing gloves and a mask. 

We are inundated with a lot ethnic restaurants around where we live. They are dead traffic wise. This may force the mom and pop places to go out of business depending on low long this pandemic lasts. Jimmy the Greek was always packed through the day and night and especially the weekends. It’s like a bowling alley now.


----------



## davetcan

Some more good news.

The New York Times


----------



## knight_yyz

Trying again. This is Zehrs in Barrie last night




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10163088345530557


----------



## Jim DaddyO

People need to just chill out a bit. 
Stop panicing. Take a breath.
Stay home, relax.
Read some books, watch some movies, spend time with families.
Shut down the stock markets, movies, sporting events, places where people gather. 
Just leave the essentials going. Food, transportation, communication, health services, etc.
Give it all a couple of weeks. 
Just stop. 
In a couple of weeks with lack of contact between people those who have it will be identified and getting treatment and quarantined.
Then slowly bring things back to your normally scheduled program.
I mean really, what's a couple of weeks? What do we need to do that is of such dire importance that you risk lives for it? Make money? The chances to do that will still be there after it all passes. The important thing is let this run its course with as little harm as possible.
The world will be fine without making that next widget or that next transaction for a short time.
Really, what is a couple of weeks out of your whole life time?
The economy will recover from a short vacation faster than it will from hammering the health care system and a culling of customers and who knows what other side effects from this.
It's easier and cheaper to treat 1000 people than 100,000 people in an area.
So just chill out. This too shall pass.

The alternative could be worse and for a far longer time. We already have an example of that in Italy. The country gets shut down anyway, plus there are a whole bunch of people with medical conditions to treat and some will die on top of it. Either way, the country gets shut down. Do it early and have a healthy population, or do it late and deal with the added issues.


----------



## knight_yyz

This isn't going to take a couple weeks. It's going to take a year. Still no reason to buy 10 years worth of stuff though


----------



## colchar

Guitar101 said:


> I got the shot for pneumonia a couple of years ago and it sounds like viral pneumonia is a symptom in the extreme cases of the Covid-19 virus. Anyone know if the pneumonia shot I got will prevent me from getting the viral pneumonia caused by Covid-19?



There's a shot for pneumonia?


----------



## torndownunit

Jim DaddyO said:


> People need to just chill out a bit.
> Stop panicing. Take a breath.
> Stay home, relax.
> Read some books, watch some movies, spend time with families.
> Shut down the stock markets, movies, sporting events, places where people gather.
> Just leave the essentials going. Food, transportation, communication, health services, etc.
> Give it all a couple of weeks.
> Just stop.
> In a couple of weeks with lack of contact between people those who have it will be identified and getting treatment and quarantined.
> Then slowly bring things back to your normally scheduled program.
> I mean really, what's a couple of weeks? What do we need to do that is of such dire importance that you risk lives for it? Make money? The chances to do that will still be there after it all passes. The important thing is let this run its course with as little harm as possible.
> The world will be fine without making that next widget or that next transaction for a short time.
> Really, what is a couple of weeks out of your whole life time?
> The economy will recover from a short vacation faster than it will from hammering the health care system and a culling of customers and who knows what other side effects from this.
> It's easier and cheaper to treat 1000 people than 100,000 people in an area.
> So just chill out. This too shall pass.
> 
> The alternative could be worse and for a far longer time. We already have an example of that in Italy. The country gets shut down anyway, plus there are a whole bunch of people with medical conditions to treat and some will die on top of it. Either way, the country gets shut down. Do it early and have a healthy population, or do it late and deal with the added issues.


I don't think people here have an issue chilling out. The people who are out hoarding supplies right now tend to not be reasonable, so telling them they should chill out won't do much unfortunately. People will do what people will do.


----------



## High/Deaf

It's now starting to look like the majority will get this virus, considering it's cagey, sneaky transmission methods. The biggest fear out here is that everyone will either a) get sick at the same time and kill our healthcare system or b) become unglued, freak out and flood all of our medical institutions and effectively kill our healthcare system. By the looks of retail stores, I think b) is far more likely and already underway. 

The strangest thing about common sense is how absolutely uncommon it's become.




guitarman2 said:


> I heard last night they postponed the release of "A Quiet Place 2". I wonder if other movie releases will follow suit. Or they end up closing theaters all together.
> I may go to a movie theater once every 3 or 4 years.


The new (and last Daniel Craig) Bond film "No Time To Die" has also postponed release from April or May to November. Some people think they should have just released it and dropped the "No" from the title.


----------



## Stephenlouis

Guitar101 said:


> I got the shot for pneumonia a couple of years ago and it sounds like viral pneumonia is a symptom in the extreme cases of the Covid-19 virus. Anyone know if the pneumonia shot I got will prevent me from getting the viral pneumonia caused by Covid-19?


Streptococcus pneumoniae is bacterial, so the answer is no. Sorry.


----------



## torndownunit

Since it's unlikely a lot of people would watch the full clip I posted earlier, here is the first 15 minutes of the podcast where the guest does a really good balanced summary of the virus and the situation.


----------



## Milkman

colchar said:


> There's a shot for pneumonia?



What is pneumococcal vaccination?

Pneumococcal vaccination is a method of preventing a specific type of lung infection (pneumonia) that is caused by the pneumococcus (_Streptococcus pneumoniae_) bacterium. There are more than 80 different types of pneumococcus bacteria -- 23 of them covered by the vaccine. The vaccine is injected into the body to stimulate the normal immune system to produce antibodies that are directed against pneumococcus bacteria.

This method of stimulating the normal immune system to be directed against a specific microbe is called immunization. Pneumococcal vaccination is also referred to as pneumococcal immunization.

Pneumococcal vaccination does not protect against pneumonia caused by microbes other than pneumococcus bacteria, nor does it protect against pneumococcal bacterial strains not included in the vaccine. It is reassuring to note that of the 80 different serotypes, the vast majority of infections are caused by the 23 serotypes contained in the vaccine.

In children, especially under 2 years of age, a special conjugated vaccine has been developed to stimulate less developed immune systems. Originally only covering seven serotypes, the newer vaccine released in 2010 now covers 13 serotypes of pneumococcus (Prevnar 13).


----------



## Stephenlouis

Stephenlouis said:


> Streptococcus pneumoniae is bacterial, so the answer is no. Sorry.


and here is a much better answer 

Are you 65 or older? Get two vaccinations against pneumonia - Harvard Health Blog


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> What is pneumococcal vaccination?
> 
> Pneumococcal vaccination is a method of preventing a specific type of lung infection (pneumonia) that is caused by the pneumococcus (_Streptococcus pneumoniae_) bacterium. There are more than 80 different types of pneumococcus bacteria -- 23 of them covered by the vaccine. The vaccine is injected into the body to stimulate the normal immune system to produce antibodies that are directed against pneumococcus bacteria.
> 
> This method of stimulating the normal immune system to be directed against a specific microbe is called immunization. Pneumococcal vaccination is also referred to as pneumococcal immunization.
> 
> Pneumococcal vaccination does not protect against pneumonia caused by microbes other than pneumococcus bacteria, nor does it protect against pneumococcal bacterial strains not included in the vaccine. It is reassuring to note that of the 80 different serotypes, the vast majority of infections are caused by the 23 serotypes contained in the vaccine.
> 
> In children, especially under 2 years of age, a special conjugated vaccine has been developed to stimulate less developed immune systems. Originally only covering seven serotypes, the newer vaccine released in 2010 now covers 13 serotypes of pneumococcus (Prevnar 13).



I know what a vaccination is, I just didn't realize there was one for pneumonia. I wish I had known that before I caught it a couple of years ago!


----------



## Stephenlouis

Deleted


----------



## Milkman

colchar said:


> I know what a vaccination is, I just didn't realize there was one for pneumonia. I wish I had known that before I caught it a couple of years ago!


You’re welcome.


----------



## Guitar101

colchar said:


> There's a shot for pneumonia?


Yes, it's been available for a few years now.

_The *pneumonia shot* is a *vaccine* that helps protect you against *pneumococcal* disease, or diseases caused by bacteria known as Streptococcus pneumoniae.
The *vaccine* can help protect you from *pneumococcal* disease for many years._


----------



## reckless toboggan

laristotle said:


> Scarborough man tattoos self Smurf blue
> 
> _“I feel a renewed optimism about the feasibility of pursuing wild dreams,” he told the outlet.
> “I might become a trillionaire, or move to Mars. Or just carry on selling earrings and get my
> bus fixed up.”_
> 
> View attachment 299190
> 
> View attachment 299194


----------



## mhammer

colchar said:


> The panic buying is being undertaken mostly by those of a certain demographic, and it is fucking pathetic. The fact that I live in Brampton makes it that much worse because there are so many of them here. They are hoarding all kinds of stuff and shelves in supermarkets are bare. And there are lineups so long in some stores (ie. Walmart) that people are actually taking pictures of the crowds while they wait to pay. I was in one today (not for any kind of panic buying, but because I was looking for some Romaine) and walked out in disgust. I walked into a Food Basics and the same thing happened, I walked right back out again. I honestly wanted to slap the stupid out of those people.
> 
> And before anyone thinks it, I am not being racist when I say it is those of a certain demographic who are doing this because others have noticed it too. I was listening to Global News Radio (AM640) while out, and they were commenting on it too. Their theory was that many of them are new to Canada and aren't used to living in a place with a functioning government and supply system, so they are convinced that the stores are about to run out of everything. The fact that they have all gone out _en masse_ to buy things up and have thus left shelves empty has simply reinforced their belief. They were saying that industry leaders and the various levels of government need to start getting the word out there that here in Canada we are not about to run out of anything, so there is no need to panic buy and to make it look like we are running short.


I popped over to the local Freshco last night to get some grapes, potatoes, and skim milk. Much to my surprise, it was a madhouse. The parking lot was full,there were no more shopping carts to be had, and some shelves were empty. I didn't have any reason to stroll down the bathroom/cleaning-supplies aisle, so I couldn't tell you what the TP status was. One of the managers was working the express checkout. When I commented that it was unusually busy for a Thursday night, she said it had been like that most of the day. In fairness, there were some good deals in the flyer for the week that came out that morning (the price on grapes was what brought me).

I didn't notice anything distinctive about the demographics of the Freshco patrons, but will note that, as I drove back home, I passed by a nearby Loblaw's, whose parking lot was comparatively empty. Both stores are situated in a neighbourhood made up of a great many row-houses/town-homes, with a trailer park nearby, and a "corona" of middle-class bungalows. The modest incomes that lead to renting a row house, or living in a mobile home with a clapboard exterior tend to be distributed across the population. Loblaw's is a decent store but not for those who need to make a dollar stretch further. 

Alternatively, maybe they just didn't have any more toilet paper. I didn't check.


----------



## mhammer

reckless toboggan said:


> University of Alberta and University of Calgary have suspended classes Friday to discuss options with health professionals, but are currently saying classes will resume Monday.


Starting to sound like the entire globe is being told "Go to your room!".


----------



## reckless toboggan

mhammer said:


> Starting to sound like the entire globe is being told "Go to your room!".


But, but, but...our economy!


----------



## Ship of fools

Colchar I am surprised that you did not know about the vaccines available. Anyone over the age of 65 should have a shot given and if you have other underling problems you should also look at getting the Prevnar-13 shot ( it isn't usually covered by most insurers ) so the cost out here in the West was $130.00 and should be good for the rest of your life.
And if you are really already sick often then sometimes the Dr. will recommend that you get a second Pneumonia shot after 5-8 years.
And really whats to worry about after all that it is a bug that they will eventually figure out how to kill it and life will go on. It will take some time to financially recover as the fall out is growing exponentially each waking moment, which to me is over kill. Really younger folks will recover and if they stay away from older folks everything will be fine. And now we can not travel to the US and if they do they are told to self quarantine them self's for 2 weeks sheesh.
Oh and shopping at Costco yesterday watching everyone go mad over toilet paper and they were limiting to 2 cartons per person along with paper towels why people WHY


----------



## Milkman

mhammer said:


> Starting to sound like the entire globe is being told "Go to your room!".


Several weeks too late, but better late than never.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## allthumbs56

Lincoln said:


> There you go. 3,500 people who know they aren't about to die from catching a cold.


Just like Rudy Gobert knew when he jokingly touched all those microphones


----------



## ZeroGravity

We just got told to work from home.


----------



## allthumbs56

torndownunit said:


> Or a lot of blue balls.


Appropriate. I don't think we should allow those particular 3,500 to reproduce anyway.


----------



## Distortion

Dorian2 said:


> Limit the quantities. We had to buy shit wipe online because there wasn't any at Costco.


 You have probably ordered it and paid for it but until you have it in your hands at home you have not bought it.


mike_oxbig said:


> What would you suggest? They’re a store, they sell stuff for a living. If they even tried to limit purchases to their customers who pay for the subscription, I know personally I wouldn’t renew my membership.


you might change your tune when you can't buy stuff because some hoarder got it all.


----------



## Chito

ZeroGravity said:


> We just got told to work from home.


There's been a few offices in Ottawa that have been telling their employees to do that. My daughter was told yesterday to work from home starting today and they will inform them when they can go back to the office.


----------



## Milkman

Distortion said:


> You have probably ordered it and paid for it but until you have it in your hands at home you have not bought it.
> you might change your tune when you can't buy stuff because some hoarder got it all.


Meh, I receive enough religious and political pamphlets from the local hard liners. Uncle Dougy would look fine with some of my waste on his face.


----------



## Milkman

Chito said:


> There's been a few offices in Ottawa that have been telling their employees to do that. My daughter was told yesterday to work from home starting today and they will inform them when they can go back to the office.



GM HQ in Warren has advised their people to work from home if at all possible.


----------



## brucew

This is by far the best researched info I've come across. Way too long to copy/paste, but worth a read:


----------



## ZeroGravity

Chito said:


> There's been a few offices in Ottawa that have been telling their employees to do that. My daughter was told yesterday to work from home starting today and they will inform them when they can go back to the office.


Carleton U has officially announced 2 days of class cancellation Monday-Tuesday to prepare for online delivery starting next Wednesday. uOttawa can't be far behind.


----------



## Distortion

Milkman said:


> Meh, I receive enough religious and political pamphlets from the local hard liners. Uncle Dougy would look fine with some of my waste on his face.


Be care full. that thick paper might not flush real good and you will have a plug up and have to hand bail it. Pay back is a ( )itch.


----------



## Dorian2

Distortion said:


> You have probably ordered it and paid for it but until you have it in your hands at home you have not bought it.


True enough, but that's besides the point. Maybe I'll post a pic when it arrives. 

This recently happened in Thailand because there are no tourists to feed them. 1 monkey got a hold of the 1 banana and the shitstorm ensued. Almost looks like the TP aisle in Costco.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Milkman

Distortion said:


> Be care full. that thick paper might not flush real good and you will have a plug up and have to hand bail it. Pay back is a ( )itch.


True enough.

We'll have to burn it like usual.


----------



## jimsz

Went to youtube and this popped up...

Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Outbreak update - Canada.ca


----------



## allthumbs56

jimsz said:


> Went to youtube and this popped up...
> 
> Coronavirus disease (COVID-19): Outbreak update - Canada.ca


Youtube? The government is trying to make some money off the views?


----------



## laristotle




----------



## vadsy

crossposting is getting ridiculous


----------



## mhammer

Well, between all the things that will be closed, and the extended March break for all those school-kids, the next thing to go flying off store shelves is likely going to be board games. Monopoly, Scrabble and Settlers of Cataan, here we come!


----------



## vadsy

mhammer said:


> Well, between all the things that will be closed, and the extended March break for all those school-kids, the next thing to go flying off store shelves is likely going to be board games. Monopoly, Scrabble and Settlers of Cataan, here we come!


maybe,. but probably not, unless its still 30 years ago


----------



## davetcan

Isolation does not mean what it used to.


----------



## High/Deaf

mhammer said:


> Well, between all the things that will be closed, and the extended March break for all those school-kids, the next thing to go flying off store shelves is likely going to be board games. Monopoly, Scrabble and Settlers of Cataan, here we come!


I would guess some more Netflix accounts and lots of increased streaming time. Perhaps the telco's started all this?


----------



## greco

COVID-19 travel restrictions impacting travel on Mars.
coronavirus travel restrictions


----------



## 12 stringer

Well, I am in Mexico as I type this. Have been here for a few weeks and so far, there are no cases in Mexico afaik(....later edit... make that a dozen?). I am flying back home tomorrow and plan to isolate myself for a couple weeks .... “just in case”. Slim chances of having it right now given where I am but, honestly, I am actually far more concerned about the airports, plane and being back in Canada than being in Mexico.

Mind you, and unfortunately, not if but when Mexico gets nailed with it, I suspect they might have a hard time dealing with it as do all counties lacking the necessary medical infrastructures.


----------



## torndownunit

High/Deaf said:


> I would guess some more Netflix accounts and lots of increased streaming time. Perhaps the telco's started all this?


A lot of LCBO and OCS for me.


----------



## vadsy

Imma start a fight club for Roombas and then a gambling club to bet on them. Invite the neighborhood. Currency will be Dr Pepper, frozen burritos and toilet paper


----------



## greco

12 stringer said:


> there are no cases in Mexico afaik.


----------



## torndownunit

vadsy said:


> Imma start a fight club for Roombas and then a gambling club to bet on them. Invite the neighborhood. Currency will be Dr Pepper, frozen burritos and toilet paper


You need trained cats to ride them that can joust.


----------



## Lola

We just came back from grocery shopping. There was a huge lineup just to get into No Frills. The local pharmacy just sold their last large bottle of hand sanitizer for $25. All the basics(toilet paper, paper towel, pasta, bread are sold out. This is really getting out of hand. Some ppl who are usually logical thinking people are starting to lose their minds over this. 

Wash hands, sanitize, wash hands. Rinse, lather and repeat often.


----------



## Milkman

Lola said:


> We just came back from grocery shopping. There was a huge lineup just to get into No Frills. The local pharmacy just sold their last large bottle of hand sanitizer for $25. All the basics(toilet paper, paper towel, pasta, bread are sold out. This is really getting out of hand. Some ppl who are usually logical thinking people are starting to lose their minds over this.
> 
> Wash hands, sanitize, wash hands. Rinse, lather and repeat often.


Then again, balance is helpful. There are too many who are being cavalier and flippant about the dangers.

I’ve always said that if you think the flu is a risk to your life, YOU should take the dang flu shot. It’s a matter of personal responsibility for your own health.

But, there’s no Covid -19 shot yet so we must ALL consider those for whom this virus could be deadly before taking the “soldier on” point of view.

This year by the way, and likely every year from now on, I did and will take the flu shot.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Darn, been diagnosed with pneumonia. Now I'm on the "don't get Covid-19" list.


----------



## Milkman

davetcan said:


> Isolation does not mean what it used to.


True, but before this goes where I think it might, you don’t need to banish someone to a desert island to medically isolate them.


----------



## Doug Gifford

Guitar101 said:


> I got the shot for pneumonia a couple of years ago and it sounds like viral pneumonia is a symptom in the extreme cases of the Covid-19 virus. Anyone know if the pneumonia shot I got will prevent me from getting the viral pneumonia caused by Covid-19?


I'm checking into the pneumonia shot, too, but the doctor's office hasn't called back. It _will not_ combat a virus like Covid-19, but it should prevent some forms of bacterial pneumonia which may occur as secondary infections. I've had pneumonia three times in my life and consider myself kind of high risk that way.


----------



## Lola

My husband is at risk. He has serious health issues. Have to be extra vigilant. This is scary for him. I worry about him.










Soon we will be sitting over a log with a handful of the biggest leaves we can find.


----------



## ZeroGravity

FFS, rumour has it that it got so bad at the Costco by me that the fire department shut the store down it was so overcrowded and people we getting out of hand with each other. What a shit show.


----------



## guitarman2

A lady on a radio talk show was talking about a Walmart in Ontario somewhere jacking up the prices of toilet paper gouging customers. This lady was behind an older retired lady that started crying when she saw what they were trying to charge her, because she couldn't afford it. The lady behind her in the line paid for her. 
FUCKEN Walmart. I hate that place as it is.


----------



## Milkman

guitarman2 said:


> A lady on a radio talk show was talking about a Walmart in Ontario somewhere jacking up the prices of toilet paper gouging customers. This lady was behind an older retired lady that started crying when she saw what they were trying to charge her, because she couldn't afford it. The lady behind her in the line paid for her.
> FUCKEN Walmart. I hate that place as it is.


Yeah that’s usurious and I don’t know....predatory? Where’s my thesaurus.....

At any rate, it’s gouging and as such, shameful.

People will remember who tried to kick them when they were down, and who linked arms (figuratively please) with them in support.


----------



## Lincoln

allthumbs56 said:


> Just like Rudy Gobert knew when he jokingly touched all those microphones


is he dead yet?


----------



## reckless toboggan

Superstore (pictures taken yesterday by friends who were at Superstore).

















Safeway (picture taken yesterday at the same time by wifey at Safeway).


----------



## Lola

guitarman2 said:


> FUCKEN Walmart. I hate that place as it is.


I hate Walmart too. We avoid going if we have other options. They almost put my husband’s company out of business when he was working. It was a very sad time in our lives. I really fucking hate Walmart.


----------



## keto

Milkman said:


> Yeah that’s usurious and I don’t know....predatory? Where’s my thesaurus.....
> 
> At any rate, it’s gouging and as such, shameful.
> 
> People will remember who tried to kick them when they were down, and who linked arms (figuratively please) with them in support.


I bet it's also fake news. Does NOT sound like a WalMart practice to me, though I'm no insider. But do you think they would want that in the newspapers or on TV?


----------



## Jim DaddyO

I still haven't heard the answer to the question....why toilet paper?


----------



## mhammer

Haven't shopped there in years, although I do hang onto their weekly flyer, because it fits the green bin for kitchen organic waste perfectly.

That aside, I suspect what's being relayed here is, in fact mere rumour. No business would work that hard to portray themselves as the lowest possible price around, and then piss that reputation away under the current circumstances.

$16 for a 48-pack of Royale? That sounds about right for Safeway and that brand.


----------



## mhammer

Jim DaddyO said:


> I still haven't heard the answer to the question....why toilet paper?


I don't know that it fully answers your query, but my cousin in Scotland sent me a video the other day, demonstrating how to make a face mask from TP and tape.


----------



## Milkman




----------



## JBFairthorne

The Walmart story is almost surely bullshit. There’s no way a single Walmart would jack up a price like that. What probably happened was, the only TP that was left was the ultra expensive brand which cost much more than the elderly person was used to paying for their economy brand. The prices can vary significantly.


----------



## Doug Gifford

JBFairthorne said:


> The Walmart story is almost surely bullshit. There’s no way a single Walmart would jack up a price like that. What probably happened was, the only TP that was left was the ultra expensive brand which cost much more than the elderly person was used to paying for their economy brand. The prices can vary significantly.


RV toilet paper. Special and expensive.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## laristotle




----------



## Wardo

laristotle said:


> View attachment 299364


.. lol


----------



## Kenmac

Here's a ray of sunshine for you. I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this. 3 Toronto doctors have isolated the virus:

Research team has isolated the COVID-19 virus - Sunnybrook Research Institute

This will be extremely helpful to doctors worldwide in finding a cure.


----------



## colchar




----------



## jb welder

Ship of fools said:


> Oh and shopping at Costco yesterday watching everyone go mad over toilet paper and they were limiting to 2 cartons per person along with paper towels why people WHY


Never too late @mike_oxbig 



Lincoln said:


> is he dead yet?


The problem is that, like car accidents, f*wits that cause problems often carry on oblivious to the harm they've caused to innocent people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. 
Most carriers of this disease will not be harmed. For many of them, a cavalier attitude will put that harm on to others.


----------



## Lola

colchar said:


> View attachment 299400


Like I said, find the biggest leaves you can. Back to nature. Lol such a green substitute. 

these are big leaves so a few of these may do the trick! Lol


----------



## Lola

Milkman said:


> Then again, balance is helpful. There are too many who are being cavalier and flippant about the dangers.
> 
> I’ve always said that if you think the flu is a risk to your life, YOU should take the dang flu shot. It’s a matter of personal responsibility for your own health.
> 
> But, there’s no Covid -19 shot yet so we must ALL consider those for whom this virus could be deadly before taking the “soldier on” point of view.
> 
> This year by the way, and likely every year from now on, I did and will take the flu shot.


I am so worried about taking something home from work to my husband. I can’t even imagine if my hubby got sick in his fragile state of health. When we go on break at work, we go to an extremely busy Tim Hortons. Who knows what germs are lurking. 

I am going to start wearing surgical gloves at work. Very important not to touch your face which I have been very vigilant about.


----------



## torndownunit

Lola said:


> I am so worried about taking something home from work to my husband. I can’t even imagine if my hubby got sick in his fragile state of health. When we go on break at work, we go to an extremely busy Tim Hortons. Who knows what germs are lurking.
> 
> I am going to start wearing surgical gloves at work. Very important not to touch your face which I have been very vigilant about.


I may have to shave my giant beard until this passes. It's pretty much impossible to not touch your face with a beard. Especially when eating.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

I just saw the post... "Just like that, the government takes away your sports, closes colleges, yada, yada, yada".

I'm pretty sure this person would complain that someone was getting him wet if he was on fire.

If you see one of these people, feel free to give them a good slap in the head.


----------



## torndownunit

Jim DaddyO said:


> I just saw the post... "Just like that, the government takes away your sports, closes colleges, yada, yada, yada".
> 
> I'm pretty sure this person would complain that someone was getting him wet if he was on fire.
> 
> If you see one of these people, feel free to give them a good slap in the head.


No one is going to die from a lack of watching sports. People have a really warped view of what's essential in life.


----------



## mhammer

torndownunit said:


> I may have to shave my giant beard until this passes. It's pretty much impossible to not touch your face with a beard. Especially when eating.


As a fellow with a giant beard at the moment, there's no face-touching involved. There's only picking pieces of yesterday's dinner out of the beard. Sometimes you can look down and see them, and other times you just have to rely on a devoted spouse to point them out.


----------



## mhammer

Jim DaddyO said:


> I just saw the post... "Just like that, the government takes away your sports, closes colleges, yada, yada, yada".
> 
> I'm pretty sure this person would complain that someone was getting him wet if he was on fire.
> 
> If you see one of these people, feel free to give them a good slap in the head.


I always like to find the silver lining in things. Perhaps this period will lead to more people realizing that social media is not the same as social contact and sociability. Like the song said: You don't miss your water, 'til your well runs dry.


----------



## torndownunit

mhammer said:


> As a fellow with a giant beard at the moment, there's no face-touching involved. There's only picking pieces of yesterday's dinner out of the beard. Sometimes you can look down and see them, and other times you just have to rely on a devoted spouse to point them out.


I'm a beard stroker. It's pretty much like a nervous tick for me. When I was out yesterday, and actually focusing on how much I touch my beard and trying not to, I realized how much I actually do it.


----------



## ZeroGravity

torndownunit said:


> I'm a beard stroker. It's pretty much like a nervous tick for me. When I was out yesterday, and actually focusing on how much I touch my beard and trying not to, I realized how much I actually do it.


It's not just a beard thing. Just sit and watch how many times anyone beard or not touches their face.


----------



## torndownunit

ZeroGravity said:


> It's not just a beard thing. Just sit and watch how many times anyone beard or not touches their face.


 See I am a weirdo, I hate things touching my face and I hate the feeling of my face skin when I have no beard. So just for me, removing my beard would result in much less touching of my face. Ya, I am a neurotic mess when it comes to some things.


----------



## laristotle

mhammer said:


> Sometimes you can look down and see them, and other times you just have to rely on a devoted spouse to point them out.


Just brush it out over a plate periodically for an afternoon snack.


----------



## Lola

At No Frills right now and there is a humongous lineup to get in. All I need is coffee cream and laundry detergent. I can’t believe this. Everyone is losing their minds. A movie in the making?


----------



## ZeroGravity

torndownunit said:


> See I am a weirdo, I hate things touching my face and I hate the feeling of my face skin when I have no beard. So just for me, removing my beard would result in much less touching of my face. Ya, I am a neurotic mess when it comes to some things.


I watched in the meeting at work where they were telling us to WFH. In the span of the 15 minutes everyone did at least 5-10 times. Some just a quick swipe or scratch others the index finger and knuckle on the lips and nose. I'm sure no one did it consciously


----------



## Robert1950




----------



## torndownunit




----------



## 10409

Due to public demand from people who only shop when they’re completely out of something Costco’s PR has limited toilet paper purchases until they’re fully restocked this coming weds.

Still doesn’t affect me whatsoever. I’m pooping right now and I’ll wipe to my hearts content because I shopped at Costco a month ago. Other people’s poor planning amuses me as it always has. If it makes you feel any better, i’ll Admit, I exaggerated. I wouldn’t cancel my Costco membership for anything. So you can stop quoting me like your problems are mine.


----------



## colchar

Lola said:


> Like I said, find the biggest leaves you can. Back to nature. Lol such a green substitute.
> 
> these are big leaves so a few of these may do the trick! Lol



I see three 'sheets' there easy.


----------



## colchar

Lola said:


> At No Frills right now and there is a humongous lineup to get in. All I need is coffee cream and laundry detergent. I can’t believe this. Everyone is losing their minds. A movie in the making?



I got the last carton of coffee cream in my local Food Basics yesterday. Since colleges are now closed, I am off all week so can go back on a weekday when fewer people will be out shopping.


----------



## reckless toboggan

I ran out of toilet paper...haven't pooped in days...then I hit the motherload!










Damn I'm gonna enjoy this!


----------



## High/Deaf

So I suspect the anti-Big Pharma conspiracy crowd has basically gone silent during all this.

Everyone's screaming for a COVID-19 vaccine. And I guess it's finally donned on them that Jenny McCarthy ain't going to be inventing it, while playing on Facebook and Instagram. Typical human illogic.


----------



## torndownunit

High/Deaf said:


> So I suspect the anti-Big Pharma conspiracy crowd has basically gone silent during all this.
> 
> Everyone's screaming for a COVID-19 vaccine. And I guess it's finally donned on them that Jenny McCarthy ain't going to be inventing it, while playing on Facebook and Instagram. Typical human illogic.


You mean essential oils can't stop this?


----------



## High/Deaf

torndownunit said:


> You mean essential oils can't stop this?


LOL

I don't think so. But, IME, honey oil will make you care a hellofa lot less.


----------



## Distortion

Lola said:


> All I need is coffee cream and laundry detergent.


Dollar store should be good for that.


----------



## Distortion

Jim DaddyO said:


> I still haven't heard the answer to the question....why toilet paper?


Because some people think this virus gives you blow hole, but it really is a respitory virus.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Distortion said:


> Because some people think this virus gives you blow hole, but it really is a respitory virus.


Thus the saying "they're just talking out of their ass"?


----------



## allthumbs56

torndownunit said:


> You mean essential oils can't stop this?


I believe that Gwyneth Paltrow has something in the works


----------



## Lola

Distortion said:


> Dollar store should be good for that.


 Not coffee cream. But the detergent. Great idea. Thx!


----------



## Distortion

Lola said:


> Not coffee cream. But the detergent. Great idea. Thx!


the powder stuff. You can do it.powder coffee creamer - Bing images


----------



## tdotrob

allthumbs56 said:


> I believe that Gwyneth Paltrow has something in the works


As long as it smells like.......


----------



## 10409




----------



## boyscout

reckless toboggan said:


> I ran out of toilet paper...haven't pooped in days...then I hit the motherload!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn I'm gonna enjoy this!


 I don't think so, but if you're sure you are then be certain to use those leaves to clean the whole area between your legs. Rub very vigorously.

If you change your mind part-way through the enjoyment, you might get lucky finding treatments that have not yet been bought up in the Covid-19 scare. Alcohol is already getting thin on the shelves.

Don't post pictures.


----------



## 10409




----------



## keto

mike_oxbig said:


>


Family got me this T for Xmas


----------



## laristotle

Distortion said:


> the powder stuff.


keep away from open flame.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

My wife read me an article stating that there have been people who got over Covid 19 and afterwards tested positive again. One in Osaka in a tour bus guide. First time in Jan, then released from hospital in Feb. 1 showing signs of recovery. There have been a number of cases of reinfection in Wuhan reported. It may be a while before we get ahead of this.


----------



## sambonee

I am no expert, but I always believed that when somebody naturally recovering from a virus it was because their antibodies for that particular strain were strong enough to beat it. To get reinfected with the exact same virus goes counter to that medically known fact as far as I know. Anybody have any thoughts


----------



## Guitar101

Popped into Walmart today in Cobourg. They were out of the bags of milk(3) and toilet paper. They were also running real real low on chips and snacks.


----------



## Guitar101

boyscout said:


> I don't think so, but if you're sure you are then be certain to use those leaves to clean the whole area between your legs. Rub very vigorously.
> 
> If you change your mind part-way through the enjoyment, you might get lucky finding treatments that have not yet been bought up in the Covid-19 scare. Alcohol is already getting thin on the shelves.
> 
> Don't post pictures.


Urushiol oil jokes. You can never get enough of them.


----------



## Lincoln

Just came from a Safeway, paper products were gone, meat was mostly gone, lots of fruits & veggies left, even lots of salad kits. Pasta's and sauces were mostly gone, as were canned soups. No eggs. very little milk. Lots of empty shelves everywhere........

People are strange


----------



## marcos

I move that we stop this post and give it a break. I think the media is doing a great job creating panic all around the world. Getting tired of reading about it.


----------



## Guitar101

They just cancelled the rest of our curling season. Now this is starting to get real. Keep safe.


----------



## torndownunit

marcos said:


> I move that we stop this post and give it a break. I think the media is doing a great job creating panic all around the world. Getting tired of reading about it.


The experts in the field are saying the government and media underplayed this. So I disagree respectfully. While the panic reactions that have occured are sad, this is a serious situation. Schools and public services don't get shut down, or interest rates dropped for nothing. Based on what the government is rushing to do at this point, what do you think we don't know about?

Edit: we currently only have 2 active threads that I have seen going on. It's super easy to avoid them if you don't feel like a discussion. Clearly people want to discuss this. There is no reason for the thread to be locked.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## 10409

Guitar101 said:


> They just cancelled the rest of our curling season. Now this is starting to get real. Keep safe.







With imagination you can Put some sport into your disinfecting game


----------



## mhammer

marcos said:


> I move that we stop this post and give it a break. I think the media is doing a great job creating panic all around the world. Getting tired of reading about it.


What I would dearly love to see/hear is a list of the criteria to be met for transitioning back to normal life. That is a set of goals to be worked towards. It's often the lack of a defined time period or endpoint to something unpleasant that evokes the most frustration, anger, panic, whether it's rationing, austerity, abstinence, or whatnot. It doesn't necessarily mean that anyone is in a position to declare this will last for X weeks and then we're good. But there are W.H.O. criteria for labelling something as an epidemic and a pandemic. It would be nice if officials could say something like "When the number of new cases drops by XX%, it should be safe to go back to regular life, but do make a point of continuing to wash your hands well, and avoiding skin-to-skin contact with others in social situations." That way, they can plot the % reduction in new cases, day by day, and folks can view normal life as inching closer and closer.

But no curling, man? Jeez, that's harsh.


----------



## 12 stringer

My wife and I just returned this afternoon from Mexico and we’ll be self-isolating for 14 days as suggested by medical experts. Mind you, I am 99% positive we don’t have the virus (nor do we have any symptoms) but a 2-week stay at home period sounds just fine to me as I have a lot of catching up with my guitars.


----------



## vadsy

Italy obits having a rough go a month apart


----------



## Lola

Sitting in all places of playing to be, Markham Stouville hosp. Not touching anything. Got my sanitizer locked and loaded. My husband is getting and MRI. Such a weird time to be getting one at 11 pm.


----------



## Wardo

Guitar101 said:


> They just cancelled the rest of our curling season. Now this is starting to get real. Keep safe.


I'm thinking it might be a good time to make low ball offers in guitar stores.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Wardo said:


> I'm thinking it might be a good time to make low ball offers in guitar stores.


Hold my beer,...


----------



## player99

Trade TP for an SG.


----------



## keto

sambonee said:


> I am no expert, but I always believed that when somebody naturally recovering from a virus it was because their antibodies for that particular strain were strong enough to beat it. To get reinfected with the exact same virus goes counter to that medically known fact as far as I know. Anybody have any thoughts


Viruses (virus'?) can be weird. Think chicken pox, which reoccurs as shingles, right?


----------



## 12 stringer

They may be healthy and safe from the virus but, sad to say, many a professional musician are staring at bankruptcy straight in the face with so many cancelled concerts, no new bookings in sight, cancelled lessons etc... 

I hope some kind of emergency relief, life line, safety net (call it what you will) becomes available to folks in those situations.


----------



## Lola

12 stringer said:


> They may be healthy and safe from the virus but, sad to say, many a professional musician are staring at bankruptcy straight in the face with so many cancelled concerts, no new bookings in sight, cancelled lessons etc...
> 
> I hope some kind of emergency relief, life line, safety net (call it what you will) becomes available to folks in those situations.


Most ppl I know are not prepared for something of this epic proportion. We have a small nest egg if we need it but I doubt it. 

I think those that those that are just stepping into the limelight are going to be in big trouble unless they have a plan B.


----------



## Chito

Sorry to disagree Marc, but I agree with tdu on this. I'm not too worried about myself but people who are already compromised and the elderly. My mom who is 84 and living on her own is stuck in her house all by herself as she is worried about getting the virus. I have a friend who is battling stage 4 lung cancer right now, a brother who has issues with his lungs, my son who's got asthma. These are the people I worry about. And I think the more we understand the gravity of this situation the better it will be for us. We don't want what happened in China and Italy to happen here. It's happening in Spain too. They had to shutdown major cities. I can understand it's been overwhelming as things change very quickly. I think the more information we get, the better.


----------



## torndownunit

Chito said:


> Sorry to disagree Marc, but I agree with tdu on this. I'm not too worried about myself but people who are already compromised and the elderly. My mom who is 84 and living on her own is stuck in her house all by herself as she is worried about getting the virus. I have a friend who is battling stage 4 lung cancer right now, a brother who has issues with his lungs, my son who's got asthma. These are the people I worry about. And I think the more we understand the gravity of this situation the better it will be for us. We don't want what happened in China and Italy to happen here. It's happening in Spain too. They had to shutdown major cities. I can understand it's been overwhelming as things change very quickly. I think the more information we get, the better.


I live a healthy lifestyle, but even I am at risk because I had pneumonia years back and because of that have had some type of repository most years since. And that video I posted earlier was a wake up call for me when the guy said people in their 40's are absolutely at risk not just the elderly. Until there is notice that Canada has 'flattened the curve' on this, a lot of people are definitely at risk.

The other big issue when people narrow this down to age groups is that anyone can carry it even if they aren't sick from it. People I talk to in my daily life just don't seem to get that point. That is why we have a school shut down etc, so minimize people carrying this to other people. None of these measures are being taken just for the hell of it.

It's shitty that people panic, but people also have to be told realistically what is going on. Any report you hear out of Italy they tell people "get on this quicker than we did".


----------



## Jim DaddyO

torndownunit said:


> The other big issue when people narrow this down to age groups is that anyone can carry it even if they aren't sick from it.


I think, from what I have read, that you are correct. There have been cases of very young people getting this. Just because they say "most at risk" does not eliminate every one else.

I would also agree that a few weeks of inconvenience to get ahead of this is much more desirable than the examples we have seen where that didn't happen.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

torndownunit said:


> The experts in the field are saying the government and media underplayed this. So I disagree respectfully. While the panic reactions that have occured are sad, this is a serious situation. Schools and public services don't get shut down, or interest rates dropped for nothing. Based on what the government is rushing to do at this point, what do you think we don't know about?
> 
> Edit: we currently only have 2 active threads that I have seen going on. It's super easy to avoid them if you don't feel like a discussion. Clearly people want to discuss this. There is no reason for the thread to be locked.


People don't like change. We are creatures of habit and routines. So there is much frustration right now, we have never had to upend our lives like this before. I have always been a realist, most people know that. I am not a dreamer or a wishful thinker. I only see things in black and white. Together, Marnie and I have 4 kids and one grandchild. My son in his mid 30's lives in downtown Toronto, the rest of them are here in the Niagara Region. For 3 months we have been trying to get them to pick up some items slowly and to start thinking about what the future may hold for us here in Canada. It was plain to my wife and I that it was only a matter of time. They laughed at us and eventually told us they did not want to hear about it anymore so we dropped it. The other night my daughter called me crying. On Friday my son was told not to come back into the office until further notice. His company had 2 major accounts pulled in one day, he is now at home coming up with plans on how to tell some employees that they may be losing their jobs. He is going to stick it out in Toronto but he now knows what that could mean, sooner or later I won't be able to get to him. It has still not sunk in for a lot of people and some just won't accept it. Our business is a seasonal business. March is the biggest month of the year for us because of the travel. We have had a dismal 2 weeks and we figure another month of that and we are done. We simply won't be able to pay the lease and costs plus our own costs at home. Fortunately Marnie is somewhat of a prepper. We have enough food and supplies to last the 2 of us for about 8 months at least and enough weapons and ammo to keep them ours. But we have family that have done nothing and have nothing.

It is what it is folks and the old saying is "you can run but you can't hide" We are going to live through something here that none of us have ever had to. In some ways I believe our society needs to live through it. There is no sense in holding your hands to your ears and trying to block it out. Deal with it


----------



## ZeroGravity

Here's a great little visual to explain flattening the curve through social distancing

https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook


----------



## Chito

GuitarsCanada said:


> People don't like change. We are creatures of habit and routines. So there is much frustration right now, we have never had to upend our lives like this before. I have always been a realist, most people know that. I am not a dreamer or a wishful thinker. I only see things in black and white. Together, Marnie and I have 4 kids and one grandchild. My son in his mid 30's lives in downtown Toronto, the rest of them are here in the Niagara Region. For 3 months we have been trying to get them to pick up some items slowly and to start thinking about what the future may hold for us here in Canada. It was plain to my wife and I that it was only a matter of time. They laughed at us and eventually told us they did not want to hear about it anymore so we dropped it. The other night my daughter called me crying. On Friday my son was told not to come back into the office until further notice. His company had 2 major accounts pulled in one day, he is now at home coming up with plans on how to tell some employees that they may be losing their jobs. He is going to stick it out in Toronto but he now knows what that could mean, sooner or later I won't be able to get to him. It has still not sunk in for a lot of people and some just won't accept it. Our business is a seasonal business. March is the biggest month of the year for us because of the travel. We have had a dismal 2 weeks and we figure another month of that and we are done. We simply won't be able to pay the lease and costs plus our own costs at home. Fortunately Marnie is somewhat of a prepper. We have enough food and supplies to last the 2 of us for about 8 months at least and enough weapons and ammo to keep them ours. But we have family that have done nothing and have nothing.
> 
> It is what it is folks and the old saying is "you can run but you can't hide" We are going to live through something here that none of us have ever had to. In some ways I believe our society needs to live through it. There is no sense in holding your hands to your ears and trying to block it out. Deal with it


Thanks for sharing GC. It's sad but it's the truth. I just hope everyone starts getting it.


----------



## Lola

marcos said:


> I move that we stop this post and give it a break. I think the media is doing a great job creating panic all around the world. Getting tired of reading about it.


Ppl need to vent. It’s cathartic.


----------



## torndownunit

Lola said:


> Ppl need to vent. It’s cathartic.


It's educational too in this case. I have talked to too many people complaining about things like the schools being off 'for no reason'. So clearly some people aren't believing either the media, scientists, or the government. I WANT to hear how this is affecting people and learn.


----------



## Moosehead

Whistler just announced its closing ffs. We got a cheap flight so we are in Vancouver right now and I had planned on riding mon-wed. might hit up the north shore mtns but im pissed I cant go shred pow in whistler. There is much less hysteria on this side of the country I just hope we can still fly home on Thursday. Although I wouldnt mind staying out west a bit longer we just don't have the resources we do back home. Keep calm and hit the bong.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

torndownunit said:


> It's educational too in this case. I have talked to too many people complaining about things like the schools being off 'for no reason'. So clearly some people aren't believing either the media, scientists, or the government. I WANT to hear how this is affecting people and learn.


Frankly I am shocked at some of the stupidity being shown by some people. Well................ no I'm not. This is why I am saying in the long run it might be for the good of all society and future generations.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Lola said:


> I am so worried about taking something home from work to my husband. I can’t even imagine if my hubby got sick in his fragile state of health. When we go on break at work, we go to an extremely busy Tim Hortons. Who knows what germs are lurking.
> 
> I am going to start wearing surgical gloves at work. Very important not to touch your face which I have been very vigilant about.


Same, I was just diagnosed with pneumonia. I'm staying put!


----------



## 1SweetRide

Moosehead said:


> Whistler just announced its closing ffs. We got a cheap flight so we are in Vancouver right now and I had planned on riding mon-wed. might hit up the north shore mtns but im pissed I cant go shred pow in whistler. There is much less hysteria on this side of the country I just hope we can still fly home on Thursday. Although I wouldnt mind staying out west a bit longer we just don't have the resources we do back home. Keep calm and hit the bong.


Domestic flights will be minimally impacted. Some airlines may go under and others will cut service so choice might be more limited than before. Revenue from overflights and landings is down $1M/day.


----------



## knight_yyz

I won't be dying of the virus. I'll be dying of starvation!! I just went to 8 stores to buy a few things. No one has peanut butter, bread, rice or potatoes. Tons of junk food though.


----------



## Chito

knight_yyz said:


> I won't be dying of the virus. I'll be dying of starvation!! I just went to 8 stores to buy a few things. No one has peanut butter, bread, rice or potatoes. Tons of junk food though.


Give it a day or two. Its already settled down here in Ottawa and most stores at least in my area are now fully stocked, including TP. You can only panic buy so much. Either they won't have any place to store the stuff or they won't be able to afford to keep panic buying.


----------



## torndownunit

GuitarsCanada said:


> Frankly I am shocked at some of the stupidity being shown by some people. Well................ no I'm not. This is why I am saying in the long run it might be for the good of all society and future generations.


Just to show the bright side of things, on my town's Facebook Q&A there are a lot of people offering to go do shopping runs for seniors, and I saw things like a campaign to get kids to do drawings and letters etc for the senior care home while it's on lockdown. I'd love to get in on the volunteering of errands, but I do believe I fall under 'at risk'.

But ya, it's not shocking that the same jerks I see driving like maniacs on the roads and putting people at risk, being assholes to service workers, and just generally only caring about themselves have just kicked their crappy behaviour up a notch in the face of adversity /s. It will likely have some effect on them if someone they know get's sick or dies.

An interesting story to pass on. My friend who works at a pet shop said they are $20,000 over the normal MONTH end revenue after one week of this.


----------



## Lola

1SweetRide said:


> Same, I was just diagnosed with pneumonia. I'm staying put!


Stay put my friend. Are you on meds? Pamper yourself, look after yourself. Do exactly what your doctor tells you. Take care. Wishing you a speedy recovery!

We have implemented safety precautions at work. If you feel sick DO NOT COME TO WORK. HO has issued a statement that if you are sick you have to self quarantine for 14 days.


----------



## JBFairthorne

The real problem with the hoarding will be the layoffs and down time at the manufacturers when people stop buying because they’re sitting on a 2 year supply of whatever.


----------



## mhammer

I have to shake my head with the irony of it all. Our neighbour used to be the provincial minister of social services. When the provincial government bungled their handling of services for persons with autism and supports for parents of such persons, eliciting a huge blowback (and a death threat in one instance), she was moved from that portfolio to one which was considered less contentious - tourism, culture, and sport (sometimes a personnel reset is easier than convincing people of a policy redesign). So, basically, she's overseeing anything having to do with people coming in and out of the province and coming together in large gatherings. Good luck with that. Out of the frying pan and into the fire. I hope she's taking her vitamins. Maybe she's even nostalgic for her previous job, which might seem easier at the moment.***

On a separate note, by virtue of our relative sizes, the typical anticipated figure is that whatever happens stateside will happen at roughly 1/10 on this side of the border, give or take. To date, deaths from covid-19 in the U.S. are WELL in excess of 10x the number in Canada. Granted, the disproportionate share of those deaths are concentrated in a Washington state nursing home, but the overall tally is still much higher than one would expect by simply multiplying Canadian deaths by 10.

What makes the difference? There are likely multiple causes, and there can certainly be differences in how cases/deaths get detected and classified. But to some extent, the difference might also be partially attributable to our health care system, and the fact that just about everyone is insured and can go to a doctor, hospital, or walk-in clinic and not have to consider whether it is "covered" by their plan or whether they can pay for it out of pocket. I will note that the U.S. had to negotiate with insurance companies and _enact legislation_ to wave testing fees and co-pays.

There are some kinds of advantages, I suppose, to having a health-care system that is divvied up among many provider services and insurers, but it strikes me that co-ordinating them all when something like the current pandemic happens is a little harder, and a little slower. So thanks Tommy D.

*** I should add that I'm not making fun of her. It just struck me as yet one more incident like I used to experience regularly at Zellers. You_ think_ you've picked the short-and-fast line but inevitably you wind up behind two consecutive customers trying to pay for their stuff with a third-party check without proper I.D. Life's like that.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Lola said:


> Stay put my friend. Are you on meds? Pamper yourself, look after yourself. Do exactly what your doctor tells you. Take care. Wishing you a speedy recovery!
> 
> We have implemented safety precautions at work. If you feel sick DO NOT COME TO WORK. HO has issued a statement that if you are sick you have to self quarantine for 14 days.


Yup, strong antibiotics and a special inhaler. It's only been one and a half days since I started the treatment but I can already breath a lot better. Thanks!


----------



## 1SweetRide

JBFairthorne said:


> The real problem with the hoarding will be the layoffs and down time at the manufacturers when people stop buying because they’re sitting on a 2 year supply of whatever.


Yup, was thinking the exact same thing. The stores' management deserve this (not the employees) for not instituting limits on quantities. So stupid that they let people fill up rental vans with product.


----------



## torndownunit

Just a visual representation of why this is different.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Shutting the border and mandatory COVID-19 isolation? Trudeau says nothing's 'off the table'

Get ready for it folks. It's as sure as the fact that I will let a good fart go within the next 30 minutes


----------



## tdotrob

I have 3 sons and let them all go to school this week, even though my gut said not too, but they actually wanted to go and the schools are still open and encouraged to attend.

My youngest who is 7 and middle who is 13 both now have fever and cough. Not saying it’s covid, but it’s kind of scary either way.

We did the self assessment online tool because the 811 line for testing is overwhelmed.... dial tones, 6-8 hour waits if you do get in the call queue. Self assessment tool pretty much says unless you have travelled, been w a traveller or contact with a known positive test, there is no need for a test. Ok fine I get it, no need to panic and we aren’t and are monitoring, cleaning(seriously cutting into guitar time haha)

I don’t see why we can’t look at what South Korea is doing successfully and do that. Drive through testing stations that take 15 minutes and keep health care workers and people seperated enough to get testing done efficiently and safely? Sounds good to me.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

tdotrob said:


> I have 3 sons and let them all go to school this week, even though my gut said not too, but they actually wanted to go and the schools are still open and encouraged to attend.
> 
> My youngest who is 7 and middle who is 13 both now have fever and cough. Not saying it’s covid, but it’s kind of scary either way.
> 
> We did the self assessment online tool because the 811 line for testing is overwhelmed.... dial tones, 6-8 hour waits if you do get in the call queue. Self assessment tool pretty much says unless you have travelled, been w a traveller or contact with a known positive test, there is no need for a test. Ok fine I get it, no need to panic and we aren’t and are monitoring, cleaning(seriously cutting into guitar time haha)
> 
> I don’t see why we can’t look at what South Korea is doing successfully and do that. Drive through testing stations that take 15 minutes and keep health care workers and people seperated enough to get testing done efficiently and safely? Sounds good to me.


The major issue is this...... the numbers being provided by the government are only from those that have been tested. You have to understand that at this point there are literally thousands upon thousands of people walking around with this giving it to thousands upon thousands of others. Within weeks the systems will be overloaded.


----------



## knight_yyz

It's ironic, but i wish the virus was as bad as people really think it is. A really good 30% population cull would be a good thing in the long run.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Just keep in mind that when nothing is reported, that's a success story in medical terms.


----------



## torndownunit

tdotrob said:


> I don’t see why we can’t look at what South Korea is doing successfully and do that. Drive through testing stations that take 15 minutes and keep health care workers and people seperated enough to get testing done efficiently and safely? Sounds good to me.


There were countries who were super proactive about this. The US and Canada weren't. From what I have heard, the swarm of people returning the country after the travel advisory yesterday aren't even consistently getting screened. We barely have testing available anywhere right now. It's not in my town yet. We are not doing a great job.


----------



## tdotrob

GuitarsCanada said:


> The major issue is this...... the numbers being provided by the government are only from those that have been tested. You have to understand that at this point there are literally thousands upon thousands of people walking around with this giving it to thousands upon thousands of others. Within weeks the systems will be overloaded.


Oh ya I completely understand that. There is an interesting article by a mathematician where he is able to go back and compare “confirmed cases” on dates during the initial Chinese outbreak and compare that to what the actual numbers were on those dates using the data from future recoveries, cases, tests and certain other variables/formulas. The difference in official positive cases to unofficial walking around at the same time are staggering numbers.


----------



## knight_yyz

This is the self test in Asian countries. '

The new Coronavirus may not show sign of infection for many days. How can one know if he/she is infected? By the time they have fever and/or cough and go to the hospital, the lung is usually 50% Fibrosis and it's too late. Taiwan experts provide a simple self-check that we can do every morning. Take a deep breath and hold your breath for more than 10 seconds. If you complete it successfully without coughing, without discomfort, stiffness or tightness, etc., it proves there is no Fibrosis in the lungs, basically indicates no infection. In critical time, please self-check every morning in an environment with clean air.


----------



## tdotrob

torndownunit said:


> There were countries who were super proactive about this. The US and Canada weren't. From what I have heard, the swarm of people returning the country after the travel advisory yesterday aren't even consistently getting screened. We barely have testing available anywhere right now. It's not in my town yet. We are not doing a great job.


Agreed and it doesn’t make sense when you have real time examples in front of your face from other countries.

So my kids are sick, we couldn’t get them tested if we wanted too because they haven’t been in contact with a “confirmed” case, but knowing they claim 40 cases and the real number is somewhere on the thousands just by looking at what is going on in countries where it appeared earlier.


----------



## Lola

I just received updates from HO in Montreal.
My job is secure for now. I honestly don’t know how long I will be safe for. They have laid off all of our part time staff. I feel for them because for some of them it’s going to be do or die.


----------



## torndownunit

Lola said:


> I just received updates from HO in Montreal.
> My job is secure for now. I honestly don’t know how long I will be safe for. They have laid off all of our part time staff. I feel for them because for some of them it’s going to be do or die.


I know from past conversations that you are a migraine sufferer like me. I'm sure the stress must not be helping with that.


----------



## colchar

Lola said:


> Sitting in all places of playing to be, Markham Stouville hosp. Not touching anything. Got my sanitizer locked and loaded. My husband is getting and MRI. Such a weird time to be getting one at 11 pm.



Not a weird time at all. They run those machines 24/7. I have had them at 3am.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

There is the aftermath to consider as well. When this is over what will happen? There is trouble already brewing with China, Russia, the middle east (oil). We are in for some real changes down the road friends. Let's not forget 9/11 and the liberties that were so easily taken from us. The implications of all this are mind boggling at this point.


----------



## colchar

Wardo said:


> I'm thinking it might be a good time to make low ball offers in guitar stores.


Give it a couple of weeks until they've gone a while without business.


----------



## colchar

Jim DaddyO said:


> I think, from what I have read, that you are correct. There have been cases of very young people getting this.



A newborn in Britain has it.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Lola said:


> I just received updates from HO in Montreal.
> My job is secure for now. I honestly don’t know how long I will be safe for. They have laid off all of our part time staff. I feel for them because for some of them it’s going to be do or die.


I'm glad you're secure and have confirmation. Allow that to relieve the stress a bit. I think we've all got to celebrate the little victories along the way, and it's better than going insane.

For all those others affected and layed off, my understanding is that the Federal and Provincial governments are going to be giving cash directly to people to get everyone through this, kind of like an EI program, and that they are basically designing the program as we speak.

On Friday or Saturday the finance minister announced the first very small portion (in the hundreds of millions, IIRC) of financial relief payments and funding available, and said that those were just the beginning trickle of a massive amount of financial relief that is going to be made available in the coming days and weeks.


----------



## reckless toboggan

colchar said:


> Give it a couple of weeks until they've gone a while without business.


Hold my beer...


----------



## Doug Gifford

It's interesting to read the first pages of this thread. "Guitar Canada's Diary of the Plague Year." We could be famous!


----------



## Jim DaddyO

colchar said:


> A newborn in Britain has it.


I believe a couple of toddlers or younger right here in Canada have it. We have read so much it's hard to remember all the details or where you see it. Information overload....better than ignorance though.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Italy has suspended mortgage payments now.


----------



## colchar

The reaction to this thing is overblown, and quite frankly pathetic.

Back in 2009 we went through the H1N1 pandemic. In the US (just using it as an example as the numbers are readily available from the CDC) 60.8 million people contracted the virus, and 12,469 died. Despite that, I don't remember anything shutting down nor do I remember any panic - or anything approaching it for that matter. But with this COVID-19 thing we are seeing people acting like complete fucking idiots, and damned near everything is shutting down or operating under restricted hours (don't get me wrong, I'll enjoy the time away from work while I teach from home), despite the fact that thus far in the US only 1629 people have contracted the virus, with 41 of them having died.

Why the fuck are people freaking out _now_?

I think I'll post this in both virus threads to see what the responses are.


----------



## ZeroGravity

To paraphrase something I saw, in times like these, beforehand the preparations are viewed as overkill and in retrospect viewed as inadequate.


----------



## davetcan

torndownunit said:


> Just a visual representation of why this is different.
> 
> View attachment 299636


US is already over 3100 with 62 deaths.


----------



## 1SweetRide

reckless toboggan said:


> I'm glad you're secure and have confirmation. Allow that to relieve the stress a bit. I think we've all got to celebrate the little victories along the way, and it's better than going insane.
> 
> For all those others affected and layed off, my understanding is that the Federal and Provincial governments are going to be giving cash directly to people to get everyone through this, kind of like an EI program, and that they are basically designing the program as we speak.
> 
> On Friday or Saturday the finance minister announced the first very small portion (in the hundreds of millions, IIRC) of financial relief payments and funding available, and said that those were just the beginning trickle of a massive amount of financial relief that is going to be made available in the coming days and weeks.


Companies with large cash reserves (i.e. Tim Hortons) should be required to help their employees, not the taxpayer. For others, I'm happy to have a chance to help them financially.


----------



## davetcan

Germany shutting down it's borders to most people.


----------



## laristotle

GuitarsCanada said:


> There is trouble already brewing with China, Russia, the middle east (oil)


It was nice tanking up at ¢82.9/ltr yesterday.


colchar said:


> Why the fuck are people freaking out _now_?


End times, my friend. Less than 12 yrs now?
I'm surprised that Bible/Nostradamus quotes aren't being covered 24/7 on tv, yet.
Population's becoming more neurotic by the day.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

colchar said:


> The reaction to this thing is overblown,


I think, and this is only my own thoughts, that there are differences from H1N1 in the way it spreads and the effects. Taking Italy as the best example right now of how fast and hard it hits. Now, Italy has a higher age demographic, so there most certainly will be differences. Still, I think the prevailing thought right now is that an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure, as they say.

Still, I agree with you that some people are over reacting and acting like idiots. Practicle safeguards will help with not overloading the health care system, which is already not in the best shape, hallway medicine already being a common thing. I think a little less socializing and respecting everyone's "personal space" is fairly pragmatic advice. Standing in line, shoulder to shoulder to get into a crowded store, is not following that advice. Limiting crowds and crowded spaces will limit spread obviously. Limiting spread could also limit repercussions, some of those are unknown, but do include death to some people.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

colchar said:


> The reaction to this thing is overblown, and quite frankly pathetic.
> 
> Back in 2009 we went through the H1N1 pandemic. In the US (just using it as an example as the numbers are readily available from the CDC) 60.8 million people contracted the virus, and 12,469 died. Despite that, I don't remember anything shutting down nor do I remember any panic - or anything approaching it for that matter. But with this COVID-19 thing we are seeing people acting like complete fucking idiots, and damned near everything is shutting down or operating under restricted hours (don't get me wrong, I'll enjoy the time away from work while I teach from home), despite the fact that thus far in the US only 1629 people have contracted the virus, with 41 of them having died.
> 
> Why the fuck are people freaking out _now_?
> 
> I think I'll post this in both virus threads to see what the responses are.


Does it not maybe give you pause for thought as to what the scientific and medical big wigs know that maybe you don't? No government on earth would put themselves into this kind of economical Armageddon without some cause. One thing we do know. This thing spreads like shit through a goose. Since day one the WHO/CDC etc have downplayed it. Up until a few days ago the Americans and Canadian governments both federal and local kept telling us "the chance of you getting it is extremely low". That nonsense is pretty much over as well. They have continuously told us that they are prepared for any eventuality. That's now switched over to major caution and fear of overloading hospitals and other functions of government. They have tried everything in their power to downplay it. They are running out of time and excuses. The facts are they have no fucking idea what they are dealing with and how to stop it. Those are the facts.


----------



## mhammer

colchar said:


> The reaction to this thing is overblown, and quite frankly pathetic.
> 
> Back in 2009 we went through the H1N1 pandemic. In the US (just using it as an example as the numbers are readily available from the CDC) 60.8 million people contracted the virus, and 12,469 died. Despite that, I don't remember anything shutting down nor do I remember any panic - or anything approaching it for that matter. But with this COVID-19 thing we are seeing people acting like complete fucking idiots, and damned near everything is shutting down or operating under restricted hours (don't get me wrong, I'll enjoy the time away from work while I teach from home), despite the fact that thus far in the US only 1629 people have contracted the virus, with 41 of them having died.
> 
> Why the fuck are people freaking out _now_?
> 
> I think I'll post this in both virus threads to see what the responses are.


Let's distinguish between the official response, and the public response. The TP feeding frenzy IS, I'm inclined to agree, rather pathetic.

The official response this time out has to do with the *rate* of propagation (which is faster), the seeming greater mortality rate (as I've posted earlier - for _now_, as we augment the baseline infection rate), the ability of the virus to stay active on simple object surfaces, and the risk to the capacity of the health-care system overall if not stemmed by drastic measures. As well, the virus-presence required for a person to be both symptomatic and contagious is a bit of a question mark, as is the time lag between acquiring the virus and some tipping point.

I think it bears noting that the responses of various governments around the world are influenced by their geographic distribution and population density, as well as typical ingress and egress. South Korea, for example, has a population density of 507-per-square-km. Canada has a population density of 3.9 per sq.km. Drive-in screening centres make a heap of sense. I doubt that provinces have the sorts of resources that would justify drive-thru screening centres in Sherbrooke, Dryden, New Glasgow, or Moose Jaw. There's a whole lot of this country that isn't particularly close to major urban centres.


----------



## torndownunit

GuitarsCanada said:


> Does it not maybe give you pause for thought as to what the scientific and medical big wigs know that maybe you don't? No government on earth would put themselves into this kind of economical Armageddon without some cause. One thing we do know. This thing spreads like shit through a goose. Since day one the WHO/CDC etc have downplayed it. Up until a few days ago the Americans and Canadian governments both federal and local kept telling us "the chance of you getting it is extremely low". That nonsense is pretty much over as well. They have continuously told us that they are prepared for any eventuality. That's now switched over to major caution and fear of overloading hospitals and other functions of government. They have tried everything in their power to downplay it. They are running out of time and excuses. The facts are they have no fucking idea what they are dealing with and how to stop it. Those are the facts.


The other sign is how seriously some other countries are taking this. The North American response has been pretty much pathetic. You have no way of getting tested in most places right now even if you thought you were carrying it. Not just no drive through option like south koera, no option period. My town, which is a borderline city, has no testing options at all in place until into this week.

Edit: I saw someone in my town concerned with getting their kid tested. The 811 number quoted a 6 hour wait just to talk to anyone.


----------



## Lola

torndownunit said:


> I know from past conversations that you are a migraine sufferer like me. I'm sure the stress must not be helping with that.


It’s certainly not helping but one thing that is exacerbating my migraines is we have new lighting at work. It’s so intense and bright. There is one other person that is affected by migraines as well. I have to find out what kind of lightening the contractors installed. This may be the straw that breaks the camels back. I feel horrible at work from the moment I step inside to the moment I leave. This is going to be a process in itself. Many years ago(same company) they changed the lighting. I really got sick with migraines daily. They did change all the lighting in my office specifically for me. Right now is not the time to be pursuing a matter like this. Our whole company is sitting on pins and needles. I have tinted glasses that I never wear but now I have to. I don’t have a choice.


----------



## torndownunit

Lola said:


> It’s certainly not helping but one thing that is exacerbating my migraines is we have new lighting at work. It’s so intense and bright. There is one other person that is affected by migraines as well. I have to find out what kind of lightening the contractors installed. This may be the straw that breaks the camels back. I feel horrible at work from the moment I step inside to the moment I leave. This is going to be a process in itself. Many years ago(same company) they changed the lighting. I really got sick with migraines daily. They did change all the lighting in my office specifically for me. Right now is not the time to be pursuing a matter like this. Our whole company is sitting on pins and needles. I have tinted glasses that I never wear but now I have to. I don’t have a choice.


I was luckily able to quit my old job and be able to run a business from home. Computers are rough enough on their own, never mind taking offensive lighting into account. I basically had to adapt my entire lifestyle to deal with migraines. So some big choices were finally made a few years back. When I think about it, I doubt I could even hold a regular job. My doctor was wanted to put me on disability last time I tried. Now if I can't work a day, I can take it off and work more the next day. I'm very lucky and don't take it for granted. But anyway, I'm off subject.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

I just had a random thought.

It's pretty well known that elderly people are in the "high risk" class of people. Many could die from it.
We (a lot of people in the fourm) are 40+ years old. Many 50+ and 60+.
How we protect those elderly folks right now is being watched by people who are in the single digit to teen year range...all of them.
So, how do we expect them to treat us in 10 to 20 years if something that is dangerous to the elderly comes around, based on what they are seeing us do today?

Just a thought. We probably all know someone who is very old, and we all probably know someone who is very young and they take in everything, even when we don't know it.

It's kind of karmic.


----------



## torndownunit

Jim DaddyO said:


> I just had a random thought.
> 
> It's pretty well known that elderly people are in the "high risk" class of people. Many could die from it.
> We (a lot of people in the fourm) are 40+ years old. Many 50+ and 60+.
> How we protect those elderly folks right now is being watched by people who are in the single digit to teen year range...all of them.
> So, how do we expect them to treat us in 10 to 20 years if something that is dangerous to the elderly comes around, based on what they are seeing us do today?
> 
> Just a thought. We probably all know someone who is very old, and we all probably know someone who is very young and they take in everything, even when we don't know it.
> 
> It's kind of karmic.


I mentioned earlier but one heartwarming thing I have seen was the concern for elderly in my towns Facebook q&a. Lots of people are volunteering errand and grocery runs. Our senior care centre here is on a lockdown. There was even a campaign to get school kids to do up crafts or even write pictures to send to care centre while the kids are off. I know with how this virus has crazy transmission they don't even grasp yet that idea 2 might not be a great one. But with all this crap going on it was nice to see people making an effort to be human.

I'd like to chip in, but I've mentioned here I fall under high risk. I am taking the isolating really seriously.


----------



## reckless toboggan

1SweetRide said:


> Companies with large cash reserves (i.e. Tim Hortons) should be required to help their employees, not the taxpayer. For others, I'm happy to have a chance to help them financially.


Yup. Totally agree.


----------



## Chito

torndownunit said:


> I mentioned earlier but one heartwarming thing I have seen was the concern for elderly in my towns Facebook q&a. Lots of people are volunteering errand and grocery runs. Our senior care centre here is on a lockdown. There was even a campaign to get school kids to do up crafts or even write pictures to send to care centre while the kids are off. I know with how this virus has crazy transmission they don't even grasp yet that idea 2 might not be a great one. But with all this crap going on it was nice to see people making an effort to be human.
> 
> I'd like to chip in, but I've mentioned here I fall under high risk. I am taking the isolating really seriously.


I'm in a local Facebook group here in Stittsville and people have already volunteered to do the same thing. My wife said, she has never seen a neighbourhood she's lived in where people would go out of their way to help others this way. Like you said, it's heartwarming.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Also, I read an article (I think in the Guardian) that said based on the data that's been collected worldwide through this whole thing, that in addition to the elderly in general, ... people in their late 30's, their 40s, and their 50s who have have one or more incidents of pneumonia in their lifetime are at much higher risk of death.


----------



## 1SweetRide

So, to get my head in a different space, I recorded this. I'm working on improving my lead playing. The backing track from Elevated is very inspiring. Just a quick iPhone recording. Didn't think about Coronavirus at all during this 

__
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fuser-535654267%2Fmy-idea-8


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Jim DaddyO

torndownunit said:


> I fall under high risk. I am taking the isolating really seriously.


I hope you (and everyone else) stays safe and healthy.


----------



## Lola

How to make your own hand sanitizer.


----------



## ZeroGravity

Lola said:


> How to make your own hand sanitizer.


Good luck trying to find aloe Vera gel too. We chanced across a couple of small bottles that were in the wrong section at the drug store, otherwise sold out everywhere we were.


----------



## jimsz

Money is notorious for carrying bacteria and germs and one of those things we easily forget about when we handle it. Even POS terminals that have been used by a number of folks are perfect for transferring nasty stuff.


----------



## vadsy

Don’t use cash. Tap for everything. Don’t even make eye contact with the teller


----------



## GuitarsCanada

jimsz said:


> Money is notorious for carrying bacteria and germs and one of those things we easily forget about when we handle it. Even POS terminals that have been used by a number of folks are perfect for transferring nasty stuff.


I dropped into a craft store today to grab a few things. Paid with a 20 and the chick literally threw the coins at me, went flying all over the place. Apparently she did not want to touch me in any way.


----------



## 1SweetRide

GuitarsCanada said:


> I dropped into a craft store today to grab a few things. Paid with a 20 and the chick literally threw the coins at me, went flying all over the place. Apparently she did not want to touch me in any way.


Must be a member of this forum


----------



## Lola




----------



## reckless toboggan

GuitarsCanada said:


> Apparently she did not want to touch me in any way.


And how exactly is that different from normal?


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Lola said:


>


Fucking idiots.

Just watching this you know the reasoning behind the government refusing to talk about extra terrestrial beings.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

US Fed drops interest rate to near zero. Standing at .25% now.


----------



## Wardo

vadsy said:


> ... Don’t even make eye contact with the teller


When I go into a bank and I'm standing in line they usually open up another teller along with some kind of manager dude and say something like "sir, could we talk to you over here for a minute." I think it has something to do with my black Stetson.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

*California orders mandatory isolation for over-65s*


California Governor Gavin Newsom has issued sweeping new restrictions for the US state.

He's issued a compulsory isolation order for all residents aged 65 and above, and said the state is launching an effort to get get all homeless people indoors, in trailers and motels.

The governor has also asked for bars, breweries and pubs to close their doors. He stopped short of closing restaurants, but said they need to halve their occupancy and operate home deliveries and collections.

Governors in Ohio and Illinois issued similar orders on Sunday in an effort to curb the spread of coronavirus.


----------



## Wardo

..... Jeezuz.


----------



## Lola




----------



## GuitarsCanada

Not Just Seniors: French Doctors Report 50% Of ICU Patients Under 60 Years Old, Netherlands Under 50


----------



## laristotle

Wardo said:


> I think it has something to do with my black Stetson.


'Do you know Sam Elliott?


----------



## torndownunit

vadsy said:


> Don’t use cash. Tap for everything. Don’t even make eye contact with the teller


Dammit I usually relentlessly stare into their eyes while paying. I had better stop.


----------



## boyscout

jimsz said:


> Money is notorious for carrying bacteria and germs and one of those things we easily forget about when we handle it. Even POS terminals that have been used by a number of folks are perfect for transferring nasty stuff.


Gleaned from conversations - I don't know the whole story - but plastic (like our money) and stainless steel have been identified by a lab in the U.S. as two surfaces on which the virus can survive for up to 72 hours in moderate and warm temperatures. Apparently it does less well on porous surfaces for some reason.


----------



## mhammer

It's still winter here now. I'm curious as to whether anyone is exploring whether mosquitoes can carry the virus. Certainly those countries where it is presently late summer or early autumn might provide some clues.


----------



## laristotle

vadsy said:


> Don’t even make eye contact with the teller


Never do.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Alberta is cancelling all classes from K to University, likely until next school year. All University classes in Alberta will move online.

This is a very informative news conference that was posted not long ago.

There is income support available.


----------



## Wardo

boyscout said:


> - but plastic (like our money) and stainless steel have been identified by a lab in the U.S. as two surfaces on which the virus can survive for up to 72 hours in moderate and warm temperatures.


Well yeah, isn't that just an ass rippin surprise. Clown country - everything they do turns to shit.


----------



## davetcan

Apparently the original virus was blood borne. Transferred to humans by eating infected animals. I seem to recall them pointing at bats as the origin.



mhammer said:


> It's still winter here now. I'm curious as to whether anyone is exploring whether mosquitoes can carry the virus. Certainly those countries where it is presently late summer or early autumn might provide some clues.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

You're grandparents were called to war.
You're being asked to sit on the couch.
You can handle this.​


----------



## reckless toboggan

mhammer said:


> It's still winter here now. I'm curious as to whether anyone is exploring whether mosquitoes can carry the virus. Certainly those countries where it is presently late summer or early autumn might provide some clues.





davetcan said:


> Apparently the original virus was blood borne. Transferred to humans by eating infected animals. I seem to recall them pointing at bats as the origin.


Good question.

Given that they haven't been testing anyone who hasn't travelled, even though we know there is already community transmission, I would guess that mosquito transmission isn't even on their radar...just as community transmission doesn't seem to be.

However, there are currently both mosquitoes and COVID19 in Australia and other places, so they could find this out very quickly.

Hopefully by the time mosquito season comes around in a couple of months, there will be a vaccine. The USA is starting a clinical vaccine trial on humans beginning Tomorrow.

If not, I'm guessing they douse absolutely everything in very strong insecticide during the larval stages, that is if someone actually decides to check if mosquitoes can indeed transmit COVID19.

So there is some relatively cheap, effective, and quickly- and easily-implimented recourse if mosquito transmission presents a problem, but someone needs to check.


----------



## colchar

1SweetRide said:


> Companies with large cash reserves (i.e. Tim Hortons) should be required to help their employees, not the taxpayer.



But remember, Tim's is predominantly franchises and the individual franchisees aren't rolling in cash.


----------



## colchar

reckless toboggan said:


> Also, I read an article (I think in the Guardian) that said based on the data that's been collected worldwide through this whole thing, that in addition to the elderly in general, ... people in their late 30's, their 40s, and their 50s who have have one or more incidents of pneumonia in their lifetime are at much higher risk of death.



Well I'm in trouble then as I've had pneumonia. And I didn't bother going to the doctor until it was almost gone, so I just powered through it. I am guessing that that caused more damage than would have been the case had I been on medication for it.


----------



## colchar

jimsz said:


> Money is notorious for carrying bacteria and germs and one of those things we easily forget about when we handle it. Even POS terminals that have been used by a number of folks are perfect for transferring nasty stuff.



Starbucks has said that they will no longer accept cash.


----------



## reckless toboggan

colchar said:


> Well I'm in trouble then as I've had pneumonia. And I didn't bother going to the doctor until it was almost gone, so I just powered through it. I am guessing that that caused more damage than would have been the case had I been on medication for it.


I've had diagnosed pneumonia 4 times throughout my life, beginning in my early 20s, almost killed me. The first doctor I went to told me it was a cold and admonished me for trying to get out of work. It was so bad, that it was work that sent me to the doctor in the first place. So it got worse and worse for several weeks before a co-worker checked in on me and transported my body to a different doctor who put me on strong meds and gave me home nurse supervision, as I lived alone at the time and had no family.

The most recent was about 4 years ago, and was pretty complex, took me well over a year to recover. Apparently, the scar tissue can build up each time you get it.

So...yah.

If my wife goes to work and brings it home, without knowing it ...

So we're both staying home and not socialising with anyone in person until...well...basically until there's a vaccine.

Stay safe, stay home, stay healthy and be very careful of unintended/unknown transmission from family and friends.

Who knows what they touched, who they were around, or who coughed on their work table, counter, desk, shopping cart, or the groceries that someone coughed all over and they may have touched and just brought to you.

No groceries where you eat the peel. No apples, pears, cherries, grapes, tomatoes, cucumbers, lettuce, etc.

No mushrooms, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower, bell peppers, snap peas, cabbage, unless they are well cooked.

This evening Alberta activated Level 3 (out of 4) emergency response protocols.


----------



## colchar

laristotle said:


> 'Do you know Sam Elliott?
> 
> View attachment 299844




Funny thing is, he is from Portland.


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> 'Do you know Sam Elliott?
> 
> View attachment 299844


How about Roy?


----------



## Kerry Brown

I’m guessing we will find out who is two paycheques away from insolvent. No matter what the government says no one will be getting money for a month or more. There is no way they can ramp up that fast.


----------



## colchar

reckless toboggan said:


> I've had diagnosed pneumonia 4 times throughout my life, beginning in my early 20s, almost killed me. The first doctor I went to told me it was a cold and admonished me for trying to get out of work. It was so bad, that it was work that sent me to the doctor in the first place. So it got worse and worse for several weeks before a co-worker checked in on me and transported my body to a different doctor who put me on strong meds and gave me home nurse supervision, as I lived alone at the time and had no family.
> 
> The most recent was about 4 years ago, and was pretty complex, took me well over a year to recover. Apparently, the scar tissue can build up each time you get it.
> 
> So...yah.
> 
> If my wife goes to work and brings it home, without knowing it ...
> 
> So we're both staying home and not socialising with anyone in person until...well...basically until there's a vaccine.
> 
> Stay safe, stay home, stay healthy and be very careful of unintended/unknown transmission from family and friends.
> 
> Who knows what they touched, who they were around, or who coughed on their work table, counter, desk, shopping cart, or the groceries that someone coughed all over and they may have touched and just brought to you.
> 
> No groceries where you eat the peel. No apples, pears, cherries, grapes, tomatoes, cucumbers, lettuce, etc.
> 
> No mushrooms, carrots, broccoli, cauliflower, bell peppers, snap peas, cabbage, unless they are well cooked.
> 
> This evening Alberta activated Level 3 (out of 4) emergency response protocols.



I've also smoked for 35 years (trying to quit, and am down from a pack a day to five smoke or less per day!). Oh, and I bought Romaine today and had a Caesar Salad for dinner so...........................


----------



## reckless toboggan

colchar said:


> I've also smoked for 35 years (trying to quit, and am down from a pack a day to five smoke or less per day!). Oh, and I bought Romaine today and had a Caesar Salad for dinner so...........................


Good work on cutting back the smoking.

I smoked between 2 and 3 packs a day from when I was an embryo until I was 17 and moved away from home.

I wonder if that affected my lungs at all?

Nah. Probably not.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Posted this in the other thread, but figured it might be better seen here in the main thread.





reckless toboggan said:


> Just FYI, the first confirmed case of Canadian COVID19 occurred on January 25th, 2020.
> 
> Let's be Singapore and Hong Kong on this one ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...they shut down absolutely everything very early, and stayed home.



***


A big Federal announcement expected tomorrow morning.

***


----------



## jb welder

tdotrob said:


> There is an interesting article by a mathematician where he is able to go back and compare “confirmed cases” on dates during the initial Chinese outbreak and compare that to what the actual numbers were on those dates using the data from future recoveries, cases, tests and certain other variables/formulas. The difference in official positive cases to unofficial walking around at the same time are staggering numbers.


I think you may be referring to Chart 7 here? medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca



davetcan said:


> Apparently the original virus was blood borne. Transferred to humans by eating infected animals. I seem to recall them pointing at bats as the origin.


Not from the eating, but from the prep:
"Typically the preparation of the animal is where you have exposure. By the time it’s cooked and prepared, the virus would have been dead. It’s more common that transmission is through the animal shedding or people slaughtering the animal, when they’re exposed to bodily fluids, blood, and secretions."
The Man Who Saw the Pandemic Coming - Issue 83: Intelligence - Nautilus


----------



## Electraglide

colchar said:


> I've also smoked for 35 years (trying to quit, and am down from a pack a day to five smoke or less per day!). Oh, and I bought Romaine today and had a Caesar Salad for dinner so...........................


Lit up a smoke one Saturday at work and 2 puffs in started to cough, couldn't quit for about 10 minutes. Put it out, went to the dr. and found out I had pneumonia The doc gave me 5 pills to take in 3 days and sent me for tests. Found out I had COPD. That was in May, 2014. Stopped, cold turkey. Averaged 2+ packs a day for the better part of 54 years. I'm now on 3 different inhalers that I use some of the time. Last time I had pneumonia was last year about this time. This year it wasn't quite pneumonia or bronchitis but that's when I got the third inhaler and was on antibiotics for a while. Between smoking, working with asbestos and fiberglass and pneumonia and having bronchitis all my life my lungs aren't what my dr. is worried about. Not worried about this covid 19 and there are times when I still want a smoke. BTW if someone says that you'll save money when you quit smoking laugh in their face.


----------



## vadsy




----------



## Lola

Electraglide said:


> BTW if someone says that you'll save money when you quit smoking laugh in their face.


I beg to differ. My neighbor smokes 3 pkgs a day at $20 per, $60 a day x 7= $420/wk = $1680/month x 12=$20,160 a year. I think that’s a substantial chunk of change for some really nice high end guitars and some new gear and some money left over.

His wife smokes too. Shit their whole family smokes. When you walk in their house you can smell the nicotine. Just disgusting. I don’t go over very often.


----------



## Guitar101

Kerry Brown said:


> I’m guessing we will find out who is two paycheques away from insolvent. No matter what the government says no one will be getting money for a month or more. There is no way they can ramp up that fast.


From what I've heard is that anyone that gets a baby bonus cheque (if that's what it's still called) is already set up to receive money to help them get through this. I would think that could also include any type of monthly government payouts.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Lola

Just got word my my friend who works retail in the Eaton’s centre. Her company has laid her off for two weeks with pay. The stores are shutting down one by one there. I am so happy that she is being paid for her time off.


----------



## Kerry Brown

Guitar101 said:


> From what I've heard is that anyone that gets a baby bonus cheque (if that's what it's still called) is already set up to receive money to help them get through this. I would think that could also include any type of monthly government payouts.


That leaves a lot of people out. I’m sure they will try to streamline it but I just don’t see it getting done in less than a month. Myself I don’t qualify for EI because I’m self employed. I already lost a couple of jobs about half a month’s income because of people putting projects off until things stabilize. If I lose three or four more jobs I’ll have pretty tough time at the end of April. A lot of the current economy is contract work with no EI benefits. How will the government deal with that?


----------



## laristotle




----------



## torndownunit

Kerry Brown said:


> That leaves a lot of people out. I’m sure they will try to streamline it but I just don’t see it getting done in less than a month. Myself I don’t qualify for EI because I’m self employed. I already lost a couple of jobs about half a month’s income because of people putting projects off until things stabilize. If I lose three or four more jobs I’ll have pretty tough time at the end of April. A lot of the current economy is contract work with no EI benefits. How will the government deal with that?


They say they are working on a plan, but no details whatsoever. And as you said, who knows how long it will take. I am self employed as well and right now I am ok through April. But I have no idea beyond that. I work for a variety of industries, how it will affect certain ones will depend on how long this goes on.

I work for 2 major music festivals in my area, I am pretty sure one will have to cancel. The other is in late August, but with the amount of organization that goes into these events it will have to make a call sooner than later as well.


----------



## torndownunit

laristotle said:


> View attachment 299874


From what I have read that would be about as effective as other masks when it comes to this virus (only respirators do much I read). which makes the hoarding and theft of them even more ridiculous.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## torndownunit

Lola said:


> I beg to differ. My neighbor smokes 3 pkgs a day at $20 per, $60 a day x 7= $420/wk = $1680/month x 12=$20,160 a year. I think that’s a substantial chunk of change for some really nice high end guitars and some new gear and some money left over.
> 
> His wife smokes too. Shit their whole family smokes. When you walk in their house you can smell the nicotine. Just disgusting. I don’t go over very often.


Since I don't smoke, I had no idea of the cost per pack nowadays until I talked to my buddy. He smokes 2 packs a day minimum. He basically pays what I pay for my rent in a month for cigarettes. I was shocked.


----------



## Electraglide

Lola said:


> I beg to differ. My neighbor smokes 3 pkgs a day at $20 per, $60 a day x 7= $420/wk = $1680/month x 12=$20,160 a year. I think that’s a substantial chunk of change for some really nice high end guitars and some new gear and some money left over.
> 
> His wife smokes too. Shit their whole family smokes. When you walk in their house you can smell the nicotine. Just disgusting. I don’t go over very often.


I tried to stop many times in my life. Never saw any money saved. It was always spent on something else. Food, gas, casino etc.. The only person I knew who did have money saved put the amount she spent on a pack of smokes in a jar.....every day. 90% of the time the smokes I got were bought with groceries. If it wasn't spent on smokes it was spent on something else, not saved and I never paid that much for smokes.


----------



## torndownunit

Electraglide said:


> I tried to stop many times in my life. Never saw any money saved. It was always spent on something else. Food, gas, casino etc.. The only person I knew who did have money saved put the amount she spent on a pack of smokes in a jar.....every day. 90% of the time the smokes I got were bought with groceries. If it wasn't spent on smokes it was spent on something else, not saved and I never paid that much for smokes.


I guess it depends on perspective. In my mind, not spending the money on something that trashes my health is saving the money in a sense. But for me, if I had an extra $1300 minimum (in my friends case) around per month suddenly, I would be saving some of it literally as well. I have less than that to set aside for savings right now and I still do it. So I guess I would be one of the people who put the money in a jar in a sense.


----------



## sambonee

knight_yyz said:


> It's ironic, but i wish the virus was as bad as people really think it is. A really good 30% population cull would be a good thing in the long run.


This is why the Chinese didn’t sound the alarm in late November. This disregard for human life. 

With this comment, the question begs, who is to choose who is the candidate for the 30% cut? The Chinese starved 60million of their own to pay for weapons to the Russians in mid 20th century. The communist regimes in the same century eliminated 100 million of their own people. 

with all due respect, that’s 3/10. Talk/thought like this leads to the devaluing of any individual Human life. 


Steven Mosher : expert on China since 1979. Worth listening to.


----------



## Electraglide

torndownunit said:


> I guess it depends on perspective. In my mind, not spending the money on something that trashes my health is saving the money in a sense. But for me, if I had an extra $1300 minimum (in my friends case) around per month suddenly, I would be saving some of it literally as well. I have less than that to set aside for savings right now and I still do it. So I guess I would be one of the people who put the money in a jar in a sense.


You don't spend it on smokes you spend it on something else. You have to put it in "the jar" and not just figure it will accumulate. In my case it never did and still hasn't. There's something that always pops up.


----------



## laristotle

Quite a few smokers that I know get them at reserves for $12/200 (carton).


----------



## torndownunit

Electraglide said:


> You don't spend it on smokes you spend it on something else. You have to put it in "the jar" and not just figure it will accumulate. In my case it never did and still hasn't. There's something that always pops up.


I am just used to serious budgeting. Eg, when I cancelled a streaming service I transferred what I would have paid for the rest of the year right into my savings account (the jar). I always do this for a year just to get a representation in my head of what I was spending on something and adjust my budget. I am not saying anyone is wrong, only pointing out there are people like me out there as well.


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> Quite a few smokers that I know get them at reserves for $12/200 (carton).


About the same on the street. When I still smoked you could get them for $8.


----------



## Electraglide

torndownunit said:


> I am just used to serious budgeting. Eg, when I cancelled a streaming service I transferred what I would have paid for the rest of the year right into my savings account (the jar). I always do this for a year just to get a representation in my head of what I was spending on something and adjust my budget. I am not saying anyone is wrong, only pointing out there are people like me out there as well.


True that. I stopped smoking and there were a few more concerts to go to and a bit longer spent in casinos on date night etc.. And a few more bucks paid onto credit cards.


----------



## 10409

I bought one of my employees a pack of smokes on Friday. 17 bucks. Lasted him the day. Let’s say 2 packs lasts 3 days, that’s still almost 5 grand a year. Truck payments on a brand new 40k truck are barely more than that. Surprise, he “can’t afford to drive” even though I’ve said many times id provide the truck gas and insurance to the first guppy to grow up and get their license. People spend too much of their money on consumables as a top priority then cry about a millennial budget crisis idgi


----------



## 1SweetRide

colchar said:


> But remember, Tim's is predominantly franchises and the individual franchisees aren't rolling in cash.


My aunt owns three and she discusses this often. Franchises aren't poor. Just stingy. The more money you have, the more you want to make. Anyway, not really the point. I still think United Food Brands or whatever that Brazilian conglomerate is called, should step in and help.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Kerry Brown said:


> I’m guessing we will find out who is two paycheques away from insolvent. No matter what the government says no one will be getting money for a month or more. There is no way they can ramp up that fast.


Even EI takes months before the first cheque comes.


----------



## 1SweetRide

davetcan said:


> Apparently the original virus was blood borne. Transferred to humans by eating infected animals. I seem to recall them pointing at bats as the origin.


SARS started in China the same way. They throw all different types of animals together in cages with no sanitation. They eat everything. Every part of the animal has some sort of medicinal value to them. Dogs, cats, horses, you name it, it's in the Live Market. I hate it.


----------



## mhammer

Kerry Brown said:


> That leaves a lot of people out. I’m sure they will try to streamline it but I just don’t see it getting done in less than a month. Myself I don’t qualify for EI because I’m self employed. I already lost a couple of jobs about half a month’s income because of people putting projects off until things stabilize. If I lose three or four more jobs I’ll have pretty tough time at the end of April. A lot of the current economy is contract work with no EI benefits. *How will the government deal with that?*


1) One of the many reasons why updates keep coming from them; they have to figure this one out in the face of the various forms of isolation that service providers face.
2) One of the many reasons why this requires a whole-of-government response.
3) Not many organizations and senior managers spend much time thinking about worst-case scenarios. Now, we DO have the federal department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, but I imagine even Bill Blair is telling his employees to work from home. They're not foolish people (a former coworker is employed there, working on epidemic diseases), but one might imagine that they prepare for emergencies that are more localized than this: wildfires, floods, earthquakes, toxic spills, terrorist attacks, etc. Whole-of-country emergencies tend not to be on _anyone's_ radar, anywhere. I suppose I won't be saying that any more, once this dissipates.


----------



## mhammer

Electraglide said:


> I tried to stop many times in my life. Never saw any money saved. It was always spent on something else. Food, gas, casino etc.. The only person I knew who did have money saved put the amount she spent on a pack of smokes in a jar.....every day. 90% of the time the smokes I got were bought with groceries. If it wasn't spent on smokes it was spent on something else, not saved and I never paid that much for smokes.


Without wishing to be too critical, you're old enough and smart enough to know that's a B.S. rationalization to avoid doing something that is understandably hard to do. You're an impulsive person, as has been illustrated constantly here. You like thrills. I get it. That's not a "sin", but it IS a bigger hurdle to clear, and figuring out how to clear that hurdle is pivotal to living a longer life that brings more thrills and satisfaction that won't leave you hacking up blood and wishing you were dead. Every pack smoked is one less future ride with the wind in your hair.

My sister is also a very impulsive person. Has been since she was old enough to climb out of the crib. It has buggered up employment and relationships for her whole life. She used to smoke, since she was a pre-teen. She gave it up in her late 40s, and has remained smoke free since. If someone with will as weak as hers can do it, so can you. Be good to yourself. Be good to your lungs, because I ain't giving you mine; I'm using them.


----------



## davetcan

I'm still trying to figure out why 14 days is supposed to be some kind of magic bullet ? Shutting everything down for 2 weeks is a joke. It may tell people if they were infected 2 weeks ago, but that's a rolling target. If you come into contact with anyone during that 2 weeks you could become infected. I see shutdowns happening for significantly longer than 2 weeks. The Brits are telling the old folks to self isolate for several months. Right or wrong I think that's closer to reality than what we're being told.


----------



## knight_yyz

sambonee said:


> This is why the Chinese didn’t sound the alarm in late November. This disregard for human life.
> 
> With this comment, the question begs, who is to choose who is the candidate for the 30% cut? The Chinese starved 60million of their own to pay for weapons to the Russians in mid 20th century. The communist regimes in the same century eliminated 100 million of their own people.
> 
> with all due respect, that’s 3/10. Talk/thought like this leads to the devaluing of any individual Human life.
> 
> 
> Steven Mosher : expert on China since 1979. Worth listening to.


Whatever you do, do not watch the UK Television series "Utopia"


Think about this. Gengis Kahn, Alexander the Great, the Spanish flu etc.... What would the world population be right now if those 3 events did not happen? 20 billion? 40 billion? 60? Probably closer to 100billion which is obviously not attainable. I didn't even mention Attila the Hun or the black plague, Spanish Inquisition or World war 1 or 2. 
We need a culling. We are due. This does not mean I have a disregard for life. If half the population died today the other half would be better off once the chaos died down...


----------



## mhammer

1) It's a round number that's easy for people to keep track of.
2) It's not a magic interval, but if someone is asymptomatic for that long, there is little chance they are infected.


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> Without wishing to be too critical, you're old enough and smart enough to know that's a B.S. rationalization to avoid doing something that is understandably hard to do. You're an impulsive person, as has been illustrated constantly here. You like thrills. I get it. That's not a "sin", but it IS a bigger hurdle to clear, and figuring out how to clear that hurdle is pivotal to living a longer life that brings more thrills and satisfaction that won't leave you hacking up blood and wishing you were dead. Every pack smoked is one less future ride with the wind in your hair.
> 
> My sister is also a very impulsive person. Has been since she was old enough to climb out of the crib. It has buggered up employment and relationships for her whole life. She used to smoke, since she was a pre-teen. She gave it up in her late 40s, and has remained smoke free since. If someone with will as weak as hers can do it, so can you. Be good to yourself. Be good to your lungs, because I ain't giving you mine; I'm using them.


I stopped cold turkey in 2014 and haven't smoked since. Stopped drinking, cold turkey in 2005 and haven't had a drink since. Read what I write sometimes.


----------



## mhammer

I'm wondering how folks in the too-many refugee camps around Africa and the Middle East are doing. Not that any of them are coming back from vacation, but such camps are the complete antithesis of what we are being exhorted to do here. Syria has diddley-squat in the way of public administration and public health at the moment. Lebanon is poised for economic and political collapse. And neighbouring countries, like Turkey, Jordan, and Iraq are not in any position to manage outbreaks in their own citizens, let alone refugee camps.


----------



## torndownunit

mhammer said:


> I'm wondering how folks in the too-many refugee camps around Africa and the Middle East are doing. Not that any of them are coming back from vacation, but such camps are the complete antithesis of what we are being exhorted to do here. Syria has diddley-squat in the way of public administration and public health at the moment. Lebanon is poised for economic and political collapse. And neighbouring countries, like Turkey, Jordan, and Iraq are not in any position to manage outbreaks in their own citizens, let alone refugee camps.


The problem is most of these places are also great at keeping media clamped down. I mean, who knows what all really went on in China. I'd assume Italy isn't just some random outlier, and there are areas that are a timebomb as well that we just aren't hearing out. The governments of North America's response has been so poor, what could be happening in some third world countries never mind other first world countries.


----------



## mhammer

Electraglide said:


> I stopped cold turkey in 2014 and haven't smoked since. Stopped drinking, cold turkey in 2005 and haven't had a drink since. Read what I write sometimes.


GOOD! I like hearing that. You were talking about having tried to stop many times, and also having smoked recently. It was easy to mistakenly infer that this was a continuing habit. Keep up the good work, bro. Stick around.


----------



## mhammer

knight_yyz said:


> Whatever you do, do not watch the UK Television series "Utopia"


Is that the Australian show about the Nation Building Authority? It was originally titled Utopia but had to be retitled as Dreamland, here.
If so, yeah, NOT a confidence-builder.

My wife works for Health Canada. She was home last week with a persistent headache but brought her work laptop home, so she could work from home when she was up to it. We got a call from her manager at 7:30 this morning. "How are you feeling?" "Much better, thanks" "Good. Stay home."

A lot of that going around. Because the network can't handle the traffic, public servants are being encouraged to work off-line as much as possible.


----------



## davetcan

mhammer said:


> 1) It's a round number that's easy for people to keep track of.
> 2) It's not a magic interval, but if someone is asymptomatic for that long, there is little chance they are infected.


It's still just a number, and a misleading one in my opinion.


----------



## torndownunit

davetcan said:


> It's still just a number, and a misleading one in my opinion.


It totally is, but can you imagine that panic if they just said 'we have no idea how long'? Like you, I'd rather get an honest answer. But I also would never expect that from the government.


----------



## knight_yyz

Utopia is about what is happening right now with a twist. Genetic engineer made a virus but it kills every race except 1. 1/2 of the UK govt wants to use it. You get a vaccine for Russian Flu but you actually get a virus programmed to allow only one race to inherit the earth. Problem is no one knows which race the programmer decided was worth keeping


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> GOOD! I like hearing that. You were talking about having tried to stop many times, and also having smoked recently. It was easy to mistakenly infer that this was a continuing habit. Keep up the good work, bro. Stick around.


Recently being 6 years ago. Anyway, I've finished the crap juice and hope it finishes what it's supposed to do before my son picks me up and hopefully I don't have to go thru it again. I'm hungry as hell.


----------



## laristotle

knight_yyz said:


> Problem is no one knows which race the programmer decided was worth keeping


What race is the programmer?


----------



## knight_yyz

I know who gets to inherit the earth in Utopia. I'm just not telling.... The reaction when they find out is hilarious

I am re-watching Utopia right now, so I don't remember all the details. If you liked Black Mirror you will probably like Utopia.


----------



## Lola

1SweetRide said:


> SARS started in China the same way. They throw all different types of animals together in cages with no sanitation. They eat everything. Every part of the animal has some sort of medicinal value to them. Dogs, cats, horses, you name it, it's in the Live Market. I hate it.


I hate it too. I hate the way they abuse animals. Bears kept caged in little cages for their life so they can collect bear bile. Just fucking disgusting.


----------



## allthumbs56

Today I'm wondering what the homeless are doing. Around here they've closed Out From The Cold, the Sally Ann, Start Me Up, all the "soup kitchens". These people have become dependent on these services and are not exactly resourceful regarding their own well-being.


----------



## mhammer

Electraglide said:


> Recently being 6 years ago. Anyway, I've finished the crap juice and hope it finishes what it's supposed to do before my son picks me up and hopefully I don't have to go thru it again. I'm hungry as hell.


Oh, been there, done that, several times. Not eager to go back.
I guess the good news is that _anything _eaten later today is going to taste *amazing.*


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> Oh, been there, done that, several times. Not eager to go back.
> I guess the good news is that _anything _eaten later today is going to taste *amazing.*


Except tofu.


----------



## mhammer

allthumbs56 said:


> Today I'm wondering what the homeless are doing. Around here they've closed Out From The Cold, the Sally Ann, Start Me Up, all the "soup kitchens". These people have become dependent on these services and are not exactly resourceful regarding their own well-being.


Funny, I was wondering the same thing 20 minutes ago, while I was doing the dishes. How do you self-isolate when you don't have a home? And it's not like going to a crowded shelter is exactly following best practices.


----------



## mhammer

Electraglide said:


> Except tofu.


Hmmm, I thought tofu was what was coming _out_ of me during prep day.


----------



## laristotle

allthumbs56 said:


> These people have become dependent on these services


Maybe it's time for the proponents that advocate for these programs invite those people into their homes?


----------



## Lola

It will only be a matter of time before they close the business I work for. We are the last one in the building to be closing. Cheap! It had better be with pay too. I have worked for this company for 10 years. If they don’t pay me that will be the final nail in the coffin. I do have another job lined up but don’t want to have to resort to this unless I have to. I don’t like change. At least I have an option when everything reopens.


----------



## sambonee

Your math is incorrect. There is not exponential growth. 

It’s only 2 min. Watch this. 








knight_yyz said:


> Whatever you do, do not watch the UK Television series "Utopia"
> 
> 
> Think about this. Gengis Kahn, Alexander the Great, the Spanish flu etc.... What would the world population be right now if those 3 events did not happen? 20 billion? 40 billion? 60? Probably closer to 100billion which is obviously not attainable. I didn't even mention Attila the Hun or the black plague, Spanish Inquisition or World war 1 or 2.
> We need a culling. We are due. This does not mean I have a disregard for life. If half the population died today the other half would be better off once the chaos died down...


----------



## High/Deaf

Wardo said:


> When I go into a bank and I'm standing in line they usually open up another teller along with some kind of manager dude and say something like "sir, could we talk to you over here for a minute." I think it has something to do with my black Stetson.


Might be a combination of the hat and the mask. I don't think a folded hanky is gonna stop the virus, but it'll sure wake up the tellers.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

allthumbs56 said:


> Today I'm wondering what the homeless are doing. Around here they've closed Out From The Cold, the Sally Ann, Start Me Up, all the "soup kitchens". These people have become dependent on these services and are not exactly resourceful regarding their own well-being.


The homeless and drug addicts is a part of our ever declining social structures. We have done nothing but throw money at it for 20 years. That doesn't work. Perhaps in the aftermath of all this we as a society will start to get the priorities straight and put an end to the Greta's and special interest groups that continue to strangle the economy. The other thing that needs to be corrected is the massive outsourcing of just about everything we buy including critical items. Time to bring it home and provide good paying jobs to our own citizens. Perhaps then, you won't have people living in the streets.


----------



## colchar

mike_oxbig said:


> I bought one of my employees a pack of smokes on Friday. 17 bucks.


Where the hell did you buy them?




> I’ve said many times id provide the truck gas and insurance to the first guppy to grow up and get their license. People spend too much of their money on consumables as a top priority then cry about a millennial budget crisis idgi


I'll come work for you. I don't care that I just bought a new Cherokee, if you're offering a free truck................

And by the way, I ain't no millenial so actually have a work ethic.

Where should I send my resume?


----------



## vadsy

colchar said:


> I'll come work for you. I don't care that I just bought a new Cherokee, if you're offering a free truck................
> 
> And by the way, I ain't no millenial so actually have a work ethic.
> 
> Where should I send my resume?


1. you wouldn't last
2. given some of your posted solutions to home repairs,., you need not apply.
3. I think he's only offering gas and insurance


----------



## colchar

Lola said:


> I beg to differ. My neighbor smokes 3 pkgs a day at $20 per


Smokes in Ontario do not cost $20 per pack.


----------



## keto

Last pack I bought just before Jan 1 was $18. And change. Not ON of course.


----------



## colchar

1SweetRide said:


> SARS started in China the same way. They throw all different types of animals together in cages with no sanitation. They eat everything. Every part of the animal has some sort of medicinal value to them. Dogs, cats, horses, you name it, it's in the Live Market. I hate it.



And their personal hygiene standards leave _a lot_ to be desired. Quite frankly, they are fucking disgusting.

It is no surprise that every infection set to kill us all comes out of there.


----------



## davetcan

torndownunit said:


> It totally is, but can you imagine that panic if they just said 'we have no idea how long'? Like you, I'd rather get an honest answer. But I also would never expect that from the government.


At the end of the day they can't tell us what they don't know. I'd rather they actually just admitted that 

I went out this morning to pick up some essentials "just in case". LOL, not a chance, the shelves are bare and all I got from Costco was propane, I couldn't even get in the store.


----------



## colchar

knight_yyz said:


> Whatever you do, do not watch_* the UK Television series*_ "Utopia"





mhammer said:


> _*Is that the Australian show* _



Um............................


----------



## mhammer

colchar said:


> Um............................


It was initially called Utopia in Australia, then went to UK television, and somewhere between UK and when it showed up on Netflix, they changed it to Dreamland (for copyright reasons I assume). If you look for it on Youtube, it will show up as Utopia, and _not_ Dreamland. All very confusing, when one wishes to recommend it to someone. VERY funny show and one I'm sure you'd enjoy. Think a civil service version of The Office, but with the pacing of Fawlty Towers.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Went out today to the grocery store for a few things we needed. Even in small town Ontario, out in farm country I noticed some bare spots. Yeah, you got it, even people here think wiping their ass will cure this. No bananas for some odd reason too along with some produce. Pasta was low, canned meat, flour and baking supplies, juices, meat, vinigar, water, and a few other items. There was some good sales on some of it, and today is the day the truck usually comes in. Spoke with the owner and he confirmed that there was some stocking up done by customers. It's been going on for about a week.


----------



## colchar

mhammer said:


> The official response this time out has to do with the *rate* of propagation (which is faster)



No, it is not.

The mortality rate is higher with Covid-19, but the rate of infection is nowhere near that of H1N1. That pandemic lasted for fifteen months, infecting 24% of the global population. In the US (since those are the figures I used previously) 60.8 million people were infected. So 60,800,000 people were infected in the US in 15 months. That works out to be 4,053,333 infections per month. Are you seriously trying to claim that the infection rate of Covid-19 is higher than that? So in the two months that this has been going around the US there have been more than 8 million people infected?


----------



## colchar

mhammer said:


> It was initially called Utopia in Australia, then went to UK television, and somewhere between UK and when it showed up on Netflix, they changed it to Dreamland (for copyright reasons I assume). If you look for it on Youtube, it will show up as Utopia, and _not_ Dreamland. All very confusing, when one wishes to recommend it to someone. VERY funny show and one I'm sure you'd enjoy. Think a civil service version of The Office, but with the pacing of Fawlty Towers.



Two completely different shows with completely different plots.


----------



## Lola

colchar said:


> Smokes in Ontario do not cost $20 per pack.


Ya they do in Pickering ONTARIO!!! Maybe not in your neck of the woods or from the reserves. Do your homework. I have bought cigarettes for my neighbour before cuz he was busy and asked me to pick up a pack for him.
He gave me a $20 bill and I gave him a quarter back. 

Maybe get your calculator out Einstein and you do the fucking math!


----------



## mhammer

colchar said:


> Two completely different shows with completely different plots.


So I've learned...which is why I suppose they had to change the title when it came to Netflix.


----------



## Dorian2

colchar said:


> And by the way, I ain't no millenial so actually have a work ethic.


???


----------



## colchar

Lola said:


> Ya they do in Pickering ONTARIO!!! Maybe not in your neck of the woods or from the reserves. Do your homework.


Do my homework? I've been smoking for 35 years, have you? I buy smokes all over the GTA and they cost $10-$15 per pack depending on brand and where they are purchased. And no, these are not smokes bought on the rez.




> I have bought cigarettes for my neighbour before cuz he was busy and asked me to pick up a pack for him.
> He gave me a $20 bill and I gave him a quarter back.


Where the fuck did you buy them? Or did you get screwed by the store?



> Maybe get your calculator out Einstein and you do the fucking math!


That time of the month? 

I have bought thousands of packs of smokes, you've bought a couple. I am far more familiar with prices than you are.


----------



## torndownunit

davetcan said:


> At the end of the day they can't tell us what they don't know. I'd rather they actually just admitted that
> 
> I went out this morning to pick up some essentials "just in case". LOL, not a chance, the shelves are bare and all I got from Costco was propane, I couldn't even get in the store.


Unfortunately I think there's a lot they do know. Not a conspiracy guy generally, but I'm pretty sure we are bring kept in the dark about a lot in this case.


----------



## knight_yyz

sambonee said:


> Your math is incorrect. There is not exponential growth.
> 
> It’s only 2 min. Watch this.


This does not take into account the number of deaths from plagues wars etc... In 120y Gengis Khan wiped out half the population then 400 years later in 1600 half the population died from the plague so the 1930s world population is wrong and between 1914 and 1942 over 120million people died.... So 7 billion today is skewed


----------



## torndownunit

We just got our first confirmed case in Orangeville. I believe they just got setup for testing today.


----------



## knight_yyz

mhammer said:


> It was initially called Utopia in Australia, then went to UK television, and somewhere between UK and when it showed up on Netflix, they changed it to Dreamland (for copyright reasons I assume). If you look for it on Youtube, it will show up as Utopia, and _not_ Dreamland. All very confusing, when one wishes to recommend it to someone. VERY funny show and one I'm sure you'd enjoy. Think a civil service version of The Office, but with the pacing of Fawlty Towers.


I think you are mixing up shows. The Australian show probably changed its name when it was already taken. Where is Jessica Hyde?


----------



## 10409

colchar said:


> Where the hell did you buy them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll come work for you. I don't care that I just bought a new Cherokee, if you're offering a free truck................
> 
> And by the way, I ain't no millenial so actually have a work ethic.
> 
> Where should I send my resume?


Gas station, players king size cuz that’s the only brand that I could think of when I was standing there.

The only catch is we do roofing I literally have 2 trucks for work and I’m the only one that can legally drive them.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Utopia(s)?

You guys are all crazy.

This is where it's at:








The pinnacle of post apocalyptic viewing.


----------



## knight_yyz

If you have the mind of a 15 year old


----------



## reckless toboggan

knight_yyz said:


> If you have the mind of a 15 year old


A 15 year old with a PhD in physics/thermodynamics and leading research at 2 universities. Sure.


----------



## knight_yyz

Woopdee doo for you! Want a medal or a chest to pin it on ? Still a stupid show aimed at 15 year olds


----------



## Lola

Delete


----------



## torndownunit

I must have someone on ignore and be missing comments, I have no clue what people are upset about.


----------



## greco

torndownunit said:


> I must have someone on ignore and be missing comments, I have no clue what people are upset about.


 I have so many on ignore that I'm tempted to remove them just so I can follow the drama. It can get so disjointed...LOL


----------



## keto

torndownunit said:


> I must have someone on ignore and be missing comments, I have no clue what people are upset about.


Lola and Colchar have their panties in a twist, nothing unusual going on. Arguing about the price of smokes.


----------



## Dorian2

torndownunit said:


> I must have someone on ignore and be missing comments, I have no clue what people are upset about.


There seems to be an argument on the current cigarette prices. lol.


----------



## torndownunit

greco said:


> I have so many on ignore that I'm tempted to remove them just so I can follow the drama. It can get so disjointed...LOL


Ya, you'd probably regret that hah. It is tempting though.


----------



## Lola

colchar said:


> Do my homework? I've been smoking for 35 years, have you? I buy smokes all over the GTA and they cost $10-$15 per pack depending on brand and where they are purchased. And no, these are not smokes bought on the rez.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where the fuck did you buy them? Or did you get screwed by the store?
> 
> 
> 
> That time of the month?
> 
> I have bought thousands of packs of smokes, you've bought a couple. I am far more familiar with prices than you are.



I beg to differ Einstein. You have to resort to sexist comments asshole to try and get your point across.

That’s your fucking problem, 35 yrs of smoking. Your the fool not me.

Go to Smokers Corner, Pickering Town Centre, and buy a large king = $19.75.

I am very familiar with the price of smokes because my husband used to smoke then realized what a disgusting and filthy habit it is!

Smoke on party dude.


----------



## torndownunit

Dorian2 said:


> There seems to be an argument on the current cigarette prices. lol.


The cig price one I could make out even through masked comments, but the tv show blow up I couldn't figure out hah.


----------



## reckless toboggan

knight_yyz said:


> Woopdee doo for you! Want a medal or a chest to pin it on ? Still a stupid show aimed at 15 year olds


No. I don't want another medal. I already have several awards for my research, but I don't do it for the awards. Also, I'm very athletic, so I have a pretty good and strong chest already, thanks.

On the other hand you sound very mature, as evidenced by your post, so I'll just leave it quoted here so everyone can understand how little you resemble a 15 year old.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

torndownunit said:


> We just got our first confirmed case in Orangeville. I believe they just got setup for testing today.
> 
> View attachment 299888


Expect many, many more to come


----------



## mhammer

Simmer down everybody!! Or I'm sending you to your room!*#*(

Oh yeah...I forgot...you're all already there. B#(*Carry on.


----------



## Dorian2

torndownunit said:


> The cig price one I could make out even through masked comments, but the tv show blow up I couldn't figure out hah.


Neither can I. Smokers Utopia perhaps?


----------



## torndownunit

GuitarsCanada said:


> Expect many, many more to come


As far as I know we don't have any method for wider testing here in town yet. So this is just the first one they have found due to someone coming directly into the hospital. I think we are in for a shock when places actually get the facilities for wider testing.


----------



## High/Deaf

colchar said:


> No, it is not.
> 
> The mortality rate is higher with Covid-19, but the rate of infection is nowhere near that of H1N1. That pandemic lasted for fifteen months, infecting 24% of the global population. In the US (since those are the figures I used previously) 60.8 million people were infected. So 60,800,000 people were infected in the US in 15 months. That works out to be 4,053,333 infections per month. Are you seriously trying to claim that the infection rate of Covid-19 is higher than that? So in the two months that this has been going around the US there have been more than 8 million people infected?


Actually, I'd say we don't really know. Yet. We are still barely at the tip of the iceberg. 

You are using a linear assumption around an exponential growth situation - comparing the first two months of COVID and extrapolating that and comparing it to all 15 of H1N1. No one knows how many people have it and are self-isolating (they won't get tested in this current environment). They don't even really understand the transmission factors all that well, yet. I think it's prudent to wait a month or two and see how this exponential growth compares to H1N1 before making any claims.

We have no idea, based on the first couple of months, how much this will grow (exponential isn't always 'to the power of 2'). Even when it is, the expansion is hard for some people to grasp. Here's the famous old example of taking a million dollars today or a penny today and doubling that every day for a month.

A Penny Doubled Everyday


----------



## mhammer

knight_yyz said:


> I think you are mixing up shows. The Australian show probably changed its name when it was already taken. Where is Jessica Hyde?
> 
> View attachment 299890


----------



## torndownunit

High/Deaf said:


> Actually, I'd say we don't really know. Yet. We are still barely at the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> You are using a linear assumption around an exponential growth situation - comparing the first two months of COVID and extrapolating that and comparing it to all 15 of H1N1. No one knows how many people have it and are self-isolating (they won't get tested in this current environment). They don't even really understand the transmission factors all that well, yet. I think it's prudent to wait a month or two and see how this exponential growth compares to H1N1 before making any claims.
> 
> We have no idea, based on the first couple of months, how much this will grow (exponential isn't always 'to the power of 2'). Even when it is, the expansion is hard for some people to grasp. Here's the famous old example of taking a million dollars today or a penny today and doubling that every day for a month.
> 
> A Penny Doubled Everyday


I won't claim to have vast science knowledge, but an acquaintance of my social group who was a big-wig researcher for Sars and H1N1 in Canada told us the issue is that this can't be compared to SARS or h1N1? He also warned us of the severity of this fairly early, and of course we didn't really pay much attention because we are not scientists and are oblivious.

Edit: The blocked posts are messing with my replies. I saw in email (where you see quoted posts) that you weren't replying to me.


----------



## guitarman2

Prime Minister Trudeau about to give an update:


----------



## jimsz

GuitarsCanada said:


> I dropped into a craft store today to grab a few things. Paid with a 20 and the chick literally threw the coins at me, went flying all over the place. Apparently she did not want to touch me in any way.


You were wearing pants, right?


----------



## reckless toboggan

jimsz said:


> You were wearing pants, right?


----------



## boyscout

Electraglide said:


> Lit up a smoke one Saturday at work and 2 puffs in started to cough, couldn't quit for about 10 minutes. Put it out, went to the dr. and found out I had pneumonia The doc gave me 5 pills to take in 3 days and sent me for tests. Found out I had COPD. That was in May, 2014. Stopped, cold turkey. Averaged 2+ packs a day for the better part of 54 years. I'm now on 3 different inhalers that I use some of the time. Last time I had pneumonia was last year about this time. This year it wasn't quite pneumonia or bronchitis but that's when I got the third inhaler and was on antibiotics for a while. Between smoking, working with asbestos and fiberglass and pneumonia and having bronchitis all my life my lungs aren't what my dr. is worried about. *Not worried about this covid 19 *and there are times when I still want a smoke. BTW if someone says that you'll save money when you quit smoking laugh in their face.


Man. If Covid-19 had a brain and a nefarious goal it would be cheering for you.

You're not worried about it, so I guess not taking any precautions regarding going to public places, hands, face, touching stuff, is that what you mean? 

You might not pick up the virus - that's the only "if" in your story and there's a good chance you won't if you don't go out much. If you do, especially to busy places visited by lots of people before everyone else stops going to them, then your odds of picking it up get better.

If you do get it the odds of it turning out well are not good. You will probably continue going out to public places because you won't notice anything in your body for days or even weeks. You'll be workin' for the virus at that point, sneezing or wheezing and coughing because of your lungs, spreading it into the air and onto your body and hands and things you touch that may subsequently be touched by other people, infecting them and giving them the burden you say you don't worry about for yourself. Chances are they don't want your gift.

Then you'll start to feel bad, then worse, then struggling to hold on. With your (presumed) age and medical history the odds are truly pretty good that in a couple more weeks you'd be one of Covid-19's statistics.

With your body and your attitude you're a perfect candidate to become one of them but you can change the story by getting sensibly worried and acting accordingly. Just stay home as much as possible for a few weeks, and pay close attention to basic cautions if you have to go out. I don't wanna see the "Whatever happened to Electraglide?" thread show up here.


----------



## tdotrob

reckless toboggan said:


>


----------



## Jim DaddyO

boyscout said:


> getting sensibly worried and acting accordingly


That! Right there! That is one of the best things anyone has said.


----------



## Cardamonfrost

colchar said:


> Give it a couple of weeks until they've gone a while without business.


Offers? Hell no. Im planning on waiting to the last minute and looting a new Marshall SV20C.

That's savings right there.
C


----------



## keto

Daughter just got this pic from an acquaintance. BAD hoarder BAD!


----------



## guitarman2

Between my wife and I we've been every where to find toilet paper but no luck. I don't want to stock up but the actions of everyone else forces my hand. So at lunch I went over to the local Lococo's and found a 6 pack of paper towel and bulk pack of Kleenex (9 boxes). I guess if it comes down to it we'll use just about anything.


----------



## keto

guitarman2 said:


> Between my wife and I we've been every where to find toilet paper but no luck. I don't want to stock up but the actions of everyone else forces my hand. So at lunch I went over to the local Lococo's and found a 6 pack of paper towel and bulk pack of Kleenex (9 boxes). I guess if it comes down to it we'll use just about anything.


A washcloth and wash it when you wash your hands.


----------



## vadsy

I filled up at Costco this morning and still all I saw coming out was bundles of tp and water bottles by the flat. Also, haven’t ever seen a pile of empty flats stacked so tall in the alley behind our Costco. If the markets weren’t tanking I’d assume all of this virus bull was an evil plot to sell shit to people and to pass some nefarious laws while folks weren’t looking


----------



## guitarman2

keto said:


> A washcloth and wash it when you wash your hands.


I thought of something like that as an emergency option. But we'd need to wash them often. Everytime we use our washing machine (12 year old Bosch) it leaks everywhere and errors out half the time not finishing the load. Luckily a week ago I went to Leons and bought a new one. Its supposed to be delivered on Wednesday and I'm holding my breath and hoping the delivery won't get canceled if things shut down.


----------



## Guitar101

Kerry Brown said:


> That leaves a lot of people out. I’m sure they will try to streamline it but I just don’t see it getting done in less than a month. Myself I don’t qualify for EI because I’m self employed. I already lost a couple of jobs about half a month’s income because of people putting projects off until things stabilize. If I lose three or four more jobs I’ll have pretty tough time at the end of April. A lot of the current economy is contract work with no EI benefits. How will the government deal with that?


I sure hope they deal with situations like this. Are you set up to pay taxes or receive a tax refund online. Perhaps you could set it up if your not. Were all in this together.


----------



## guitarman2

They're telling us not to panic and other than staying away from crowds and other people live your life as you normally would. So I bought a guitar.


----------



## davetcan

Don't you have a sink?



guitarman2 said:


> I thought of something like that as an emergency option. But we'd need to wash them often. Everytime we use our washing machine (12 year old Bosch) it leaks everywhere and errors out half the time not finishing the load. Luckily a week ago I went to Leons and bought a new one. Its supposed to be delivered on Wednesday and I'm holding my breath and hoping the delivery won't get canceled if things shut down.


----------



## laristotle

guitarman2 said:


> So I bought a guitar.


Hmm, how many people handled it before you?
Better clean it well before playing it.


----------



## Chito

deleted


----------



## laristotle

So, which version of Utopia is the one to watch? UK or Australian?


----------



## guitarman2

laristotle said:


> Hmm, how many people handled it before you?
> Better clean it well before playing it.


Heres the new one on the way.

1952 Journeyman Relic Telecaster (Milwaukee 608-790-9816) - Dave's Guitar Shop

Some people wait a couple days to allow temperature normalizing in order to avoid checking. Me I never cared about that. But now do I got to wait a couple of days in order for viruses on it to die before opening? Nah. It will be at least a week in transit. Although I may spray hand sanitizer on the box.


----------



## 10409

I just thought of a great way to get protesters off the train tracks. /coughs


----------



## keto

First human trial for coronavirus vaccine begins Monday in the US


----------



## allthumbs56

keto said:


> First human trial for coronavirus vaccine begins Monday in the US


So how do they tell if it works? Isn't that proving a negative?


----------



## mhammer

laristotle said:


> So, which version of Utopia is the one to watch? UK or Australian?


Never seen the UK show. The Australian one is a hoot, and _uncomfortably realistic_.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## knight_yyz

The UK Utopia show is violent! It's a comedy/drama but I would put the emphasis on the drama. I have a soft spot for non Hollywood stuff and this fits the bill nicely. Lot's of twists and turns as you try to figure out what is going on, who's on who's side, who switched sides.... If you are a fan of Black Mirror you will like this show.


----------



## Electraglide

boyscout said:


> Man. If Covid-19 had a brain and a nefarious goal it would be cheering for you.
> 
> You're not worried about it, so I guess not taking any precautions regarding going to public places, hands, face, touching stuff, is that what you mean?
> 
> You might not pick up the virus - that's the only "if" in your story and there's a good chance you won't if you don't go out much. If you do, especially to busy places visited by lots of people before everyone else stops going to them, then your odds of picking it up get better.
> 
> If you do get it the odds of it turning out well are not good. You will probably continue going out to public places because you won't notice anything in your body for days or even weeks. You'll be workin' for the virus at that point, sneezing or wheezing and coughing because of your lungs, spreading it into the air and onto your body and hands and things you touch that may subsequently be touched by other people, infecting them and giving them the burden you say you don't worry about for yourself. Chances are they don't want your gift.
> 
> Then you'll start to feel bad, then worse, then struggling to hold on. With your (presumed) age and medical history the odds are truly pretty good that in a couple more weeks you'd be one of Covid-19's statistics.
> 
> With your body and your attitude you're a perfect candidate to become one of them but you can change the story by getting sensibly worried and acting accordingly. Just stay home as much as possible for a few weeks, and pay close attention to basic cautions if you have to go out. I don't wanna see the "Whatever happened to Electraglide?" thread show up here.


Not worried about it because I have more than a few medical issues that are a bit heavier than, "if I catch the virus". Among other things these medical things have had me out and about to public places at least 3 times a week since the 25th of Jan. seeing various drs., specialists and into various clinics and labs. From what they told me at the search and destroy today I'll be doing that until at least the 25th of May if not longer. Since I go out shopping at least 3 times a week to places with lots of people that takes up most of the rest of my week but I do squeeze in shooting pool, playing cards and occasionally dancing cheek to cheek with a lady as old as me. I have no problem with going places, shaking hands, touching things and 'gasp' even kissing the occasional girl. 
I've survived a lot worse in my years.....measles, mumps, smallpox, chicken pox, jaundice, polio, pneumonia and bronchitis at the same time at least 3 times, getting stabbed and shot......not going to hide my head under a pillow going oh no, oh no for 14 days. 
As far as basic cautions go, do you know what's on that letter you received in the mail or who handled the debit machine before you did? You got kids at home who are out of school for how ever long.....I can see them staying in the house for maybe 3 or 4 days. Then what, you going to steam clean them when they sneak back in? How about you? There's people on here who's work places are shutting their doors. Gonna take a while before money starts to come in, if it does. Maybe we'll see you behind the counter going, "Would you like fries with that sir?".


----------



## Doug Gifford

allthumbs56 said:


> So how do they tell if it works? Isn't that proving a negative?


Here's a report. Make of it what you will:

Coronavirus: US volunteers to test first vaccine


----------



## allthumbs56

Doug Gifford said:


> Here's a report. Make of it what you will:
> 
> Coronavirus: US volunteers to test first vaccine


Thanks for that but it still leaves me wondering how it's proved - if the test subjects DON'T get the real virus then it worked?


----------



## boyscout

guitarman2 said:


> Between my wife and I we've been every where to find toilet paper but no luck. I don't want to stock up but the actions of everyone else forces my hand. So at lunch I went over to the local Lococo's and found a 6 pack of paper towel and bulk pack of Kleenex (9 boxes). I guess if it comes down to it we'll use just about anything.


Three big stores near us were all stripped bare of toilet paper a few days ago. Yesterday two of them (Canadian Tire and Zehrs) had some. It sold out fairly quickly, but there will be more within days. No need to panic.


----------



## Wardo

I just got back from Sobeys; lots of empty shelves and lineups more than usual. The meat department was picked clean maybe 80 percent empty. Ass wipe and water long gone but I got enough of that anyway.


----------



## Lola

My place of business will be officially closed as of tomorrow night. I now have to use my vacation hours up plus my personal days and then apply for EI. What a hassle this is going to be! Nothing I can do about it. Might as well enjoy my time off. Financially we are more then good. Thank god.


----------



## Stephenlouis

I work for the Health Authority so I tend to have gloves and hand sanitizer in my car. I drove by the gym, saw it was almost empty( on my way to the liquor store) so I decided to drop in for a workout. I pulled my hand sanitizer out of the glove box, changed my shoes at the car, sanitized my hands, tossed the bottle onto the passenger seat and went in to move some weights up and down in mindless boredom. When I got back to the car my hand sanitizer was gone! Crazy! Someone opened my door and took it!


----------



## Stephenlouis

allthumbs56 said:


> Thanks for that but it still leaves me wondering how it's proved - if the test subjects DON'T get the real virus then it worked?


They would have to try to infect you with an attenuated form of the virus to test the vaccine. Im guessing these are paid volunteers if they are private citizens.


----------



## colchar

Stephenlouis said:


> They would have to try to infect you with an attenuated form of the virus to test the vaccine. Im guessing these are paid volunteers if they are private citizens.



They are looking for volunteers in Britain. They will be given a mild strain and then the vaccine.


----------



## tdotrob

Electraglide said:


> Not worried about it because I have more than a few medical issues that are a bit heavier than, "if I catch the virus". Among other things these medical things have had me out and about to public places at least 3 times a week since the 25th of Jan. seeing various drs., specialists and into various clinics and labs. From what they told me at the search and destroy today I'll be doing that until at least the 25th of May if not longer. Since I go out shopping at least 3 times a week to places with lots of people that takes up most of the rest of my week but I do squeeze in shooting pool, playing cards and occasionally dancing cheek to cheek with a lady as old as me. I have no problem with going places, shaking hands, touching things and 'gasp' even kissing the occasional girl.
> I've survived a lot worse in my years.....measles, mumps, smallpox, chicken pox, jaundice, polio, pneumonia and bronchitis at the same time at least 3 times, getting stabbed and shot......not going to hide my head under a pillow going oh no, oh no for 14 days.
> As far as basic cautions go, do you know what's on that letter you received in the mail or who handled the debit machine before you did? You got kids at home who are out of school for how ever long.....I can see them staying in the house for maybe 3 or 4 days. Then what, you going to steam clean them when they sneak back in? How about you? There's people on here who's work places are shutting their doors. Gonna take a while before money starts to come in, if it does. Maybe we'll see you behind the counter going, "Would you like fries with that sir?".


This guy is gonna die for sure from covid. No way you live through all that and not get taken out by a silly little virus, it’s a classic super hard living tough guy story waiting to be written. Sounds like a hell of a life though.

*disclaimer I in no way wish harm on anyone.... well maybe a few but no one here in the forum at least*


----------



## reckless toboggan

guitarman2 said:


> Heres the new one on the way.
> 
> 1952 Journeyman Relic Telecaster (Milwaukee 608-790-9816) - Dave's Guitar Shop
> 
> Some people wait a couple days to allow temperature normalizing in order to avoid checking. Me I never cared about that. But now do I got to wait a couple of days in order for viruses on it to die before opening? Nah. It will be at least a week in transit. Although I may spray hand sanitizer on the box.


Daayum. You go girl! Absolute beauty.


----------



## keto




----------



## silvertonebetty

They don't seem care about the virus









Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk


----------



## reckless toboggan

silvertonebetty said:


> They don't seem care about the virus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk


I've been looking for one of those little top hats and tuxedo jackets for my cat.


----------



## silvertonebetty

reckless toboggan said:


> I've been looking for one of those little top hats and tuxedo jackets for my cat.


Haha. My aunt made a tux for my uncle's chawawa for his wedding 

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk


----------



## guitarman2

silvertonebetty said:


> Haha. My aunt made a tux for my uncle's chawawa for his wedding
> 
> Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk


I love my little Chihuahua but I hate the way my wife and daughter dress the poor guy up. My daughter is constantly clothes shopping on Amazon for him. The little critter has a bigger wardrobe than me.


----------



## silvertonebetty

guitarman2 said:


> I love my little Chihuahua but I hate the way my wife and daughter dress the poor guy up. My daughter is constantly clothes shopping on Amazon for him. The little critter has a bigger wardrobe than me.


Yeah its nor right to dress them 

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk


----------



## reckless toboggan

Agreed.


----------



## allthumbs56

tdotrob said:


> This guy is gonna die for sure from covid. No way you live through all that and not get taken out by a silly little virus, it’s a classic super hard living tough guy story waiting to be written. Sounds like a hell of a life though.
> 
> *disclaimer I in no way wish harm on anyone.... well maybe a few but no one here in the forum at least*


It's ok to not worry about catching the virus ourselves- but I believe we have an obligation to those we come in contact with. "Patient #31" comes to mind.

2019 coronavirus: The Korean clusters


----------



## 12 stringer

Well, an Independent Grocery store (Loblaws, really), in Almonte Ontario is restricting 8am to 9am shopping to seniors only (65+). This will give the “older crowd” some space and opportunity to fill up with the basics in a more “civilized” environment. No runners, sprinters, dashers and the like. Good!


----------



## Lola

guitarman2 said:


> The little critter has a bigger wardrobe than me.


We have a little French bulldog which my husband of all ppl likes him to look sharp. He buys him Roots clothing. Hell, I don’t even get designer clothing. He even has his own toy box.


----------



## tdotrob

allthumbs56 said:


> It's ok to not worry about catching the virus ourselves- but I believe we have an obligation to those we come in contact with. "Patient #31" comes to mind.
> 
> 2019 coronavirus: The Korean clusters


Responsible for thousands of transmission wow!


----------



## knight_yyz

12 stringer said:


> Well, an Independent Grocery store (Loblaws, really), in Almonte Ontario is restricting 8am to 9am shopping to seniors only (65+). This will give the “older crowd” some space and opportunity to fill up with the basics in a more “civilized” environment. No runners, sprinters, dashers and the like. Good!



*Metro Grocery Stores In Montreal Are Now Allowed To Limit Number Of Products Per Customer*

To me that makes more sense.


----------



## guitarman2

Well our first family casualties. My oldest daughter, son-inlaw and grandson have all been laid off from their jobs. And my grandson and son-in-law are both reporting symptoms. And both are in the high risk category.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

allthumbs56 said:


> It's ok to not worry about catching the virus ourselves- but I believe we have an obligation to those we come in contact with. "Patient #31" comes to mind.
> 
> 2019 coronavirus: The Korean clusters


The person you pass it on to may mean nothing to you, but may mean everything to someone else. How would you react if someone had an attitude of not caring and passed something like this on to one of your loved ones, or you? So, I agree with your sentiment.


----------



## allthumbs56

knight_yyz said:


> *Metro Grocery Stores In Montreal Are Now Allowed To Limit Number Of Products Per Customer*
> 
> To me that makes more sense. Sorry about the font size, I copied and pasted


Makes perfect sense. Stores around here often limit quantities on sale items so why not on TP and wipes and such.


----------



## 12 stringer

knight_yyz said:


> In Montreal they have limited how much you can buy. To me that makes more sense


It does indeed but the ones hoarding and going nuts and into buyingfrenzie


knight_yyz said:


> *Metro Grocery Stores In Montreal Are Now Allowed To Limit Number Of Products Per Customer*
> 
> To me that makes more sense. Sorry about the font size, I copied and pasted


Agreed. Enough with the panic buying, senseless hoarding and obnoxious buy-to-resell BS. I hope it gets standardized across the country.


----------



## torndownunit

Jim DaddyO said:


> The person you pass it on to may mean nothing to you, but may mean everything to someone else. How would you react if someone had an attitude of not caring and passed something like this on to one of your loved ones, or you? So, I agree with your sentiment.


I am at risk due to past pneumonia. I've given up debating with people who are proud of this 'fuck it/fuck you' attitude and this virus. You nailed. I don't want to get sick (possibly dangerously so) due to someone else's bravado.


----------



## sambonee

This very informative thread has become a soap opera. 


Don’t lock your fingers folks. And don’t call the bank. The lines are clogged


----------



## mhammer

12 stringer said:


> Well, an Independent Grocery store (Loblaws, really), in Almonte Ontario is restricting 8am to 9am shopping to seniors only (65+). This will give the “older crowd” some space and opportunity to fill up with the basics in a more “civilized” environment. No runners, sprinters, dashers and the like. Good!


Same thing for one in Barrhaven in suburban Ottawa, and apparently one in BC, and we heard about another in Florida. I imagine more and more will crop up, if only to manage reputation.


----------



## Jim DaddyO




----------



## torndownunit

mhammer said:


> Same thing for one in Barrhaven in suburban Ottawa, and apparently one in BC, and we heard about another in Florida. I imagine more and more will crop up, if only to manage reputation.


We have one store (the zehrs) doing this in my town starting Wednesday.


----------



## 10409

Hey not to throw gas on the fire but I had another thought

It’s mosquito season soon


----------



## keto

Coronavirus Transmission: How Does the 2019 Coronavirus Spread?

"There’s currently no evicence showing that anyone has contracted the virus from a mosquito bite. Experts note it’s a respiratory virus, not a bloodborne virus."


----------



## Dorian2

guitarman2 said:


> Well our first family casualties. My oldest daughter, son-inlaw and grandson have all been laid off from their jobs. And my grandson and son-in-law are both reporting symptoms. And both are in the high risk category.



Stay strong.


----------



## allthumbs56

keto said:


> Coronavirus Transmission: How Does the 2019 Coronavirus Spread?
> 
> "There’s currently no evicence showing that anyone has contracted the virus from a mosquito bite. Experts note it’s a respiratory virus, not a bloodborne virus."


There is an animal connection though. Didn't it all start with eating bats from wet markets? Wasn't there a story about a dog carrying it awhile back?

Pet Dog in Hong Kong Has ‘Low Level’ of Coronavirus

We are so far from knowing enough. Maybe it'll just fizzle out by the summer - maybe it will be carried by mosquito or birds. Hopefully good hygiene and social fire breaks will give us the time to find out.


----------



## reckless toboggan

mike_oxbig said:


> Hey not to throw gas on the fire but I had another thought
> 
> It’s mosquito season soon


.



mhammer said:


> It's still winter here now. I'm curious as to whether anyone is exploring whether mosquitoes can carry the virus. Certainly those countries where it is presently late summer or early autumn might provide some clues.






davetcan said:


> Apparently the original virus was blood borne. Transferred to humans by eating infected animals. I seem to recall them pointing at bats as the origin.






reckless toboggan said:


> Good question.
> 
> Given that they haven't been testing anyone who hasn't travelled, even though we know there is already community transmission, I would guess that mosquito transmission isn't even on their radar...just as community transmission doesn't seem to be.
> 
> However, there are currently both mosquitoes and COVID19 in Australia and other places, so they could find this out very quickly.
> 
> Hopefully by the time mosquito season comes around in a couple of months, there will be a vaccine. The USA is starting a clinical vaccine trial on humans beginning Tomorrow.
> 
> If not, I'm guessing they douse absolutely everything in very strong insecticide during the larval stages, that is if someone actually decides to check if mosquitoes can indeed transmit COVID19.
> 
> So there is some relatively cheap, effective, and quickly- and easily-implimented recourse if mosquito transmission presents a problem, but someone needs to check.


----------



## keithb7

guitarman2 said:


> Well our first family casualties. My oldest daughter, son-inlaw and grandson have all been laid off from their jobs. And my grandson and son-in-law are both reporting symptoms. And both are in the high risk category.


Early signs of the Tsunami that is coming.Indeed it is coming. The economic fallout from this is already massive, and it's only really started ramping up over the past week or so. So many unknowns, and storm clouds on the horizon.


----------



## Sneaky

Dentist appointment and blood work cancelled today. My optometrist tested positive this past weekend so I won’t be going to see him for my scheduled appointment. Wife is a teacher and all classes cancelled indefinitely today. Stores and restaurants are closing by the dozens. I doubt many of them will return. This is getting really bad.


----------



## tomee2

Took 3 stores but I found TP today at a superstore. Stacked up in a isle away from the regular paper products isle. Been trying to buy the stuff for 2 weeks now, and with the kids home for 3 weeks straight now, I was getting a little worried when I saw 6 rolls left...

As for the virus... look at the numbers in each country that gets this. This is NOT h1n1, or Sars or swine flu. Infections grow by a factor of 10 in less than 2 weeks, deaths follow in a similar rate. The US hit 1000 last week, will be 10,000 this week. Could reach 100,000 2 weeks from now. Without social distancing, it could grow to 1M, then 10M within a month. China halted it at 80,000 using total social lockdown. So, staying home..not overblown. Buying a carload of TP. Overblown.


----------



## reckless toboggan

tomee2 said:


> As for the virus... look at the numbers in each country that gets this. This is NOT h1n1, or Sars or swine flu. Infections grow by a factor of 10 in less than 2 weeks, deaths follow in a similar rate. The US hit 1000 last week, will be 10,000 this week. Could reach 100,000 2 weeks from now. Without social distancing, it could grow to 1M, then 10M within a month. China halted it at 80,000 using total social lockdown. So, staying home..not overblown. Buying a carload of TP. Overblown.


I think this is probably the best summary of the situation in the whole thread.


----------



## GuitarsCanada




----------



## davetcan

San Francisco Bay area is on a virtual lockdown until April 7th. I think we're heading for this in Toronto, if not all of Ontario, given the latest numbers coming in.


----------



## 12 stringer

Isn’t life on earth astonishingly fragile for us of the human race? We got to this point (soon to be a lot worse?) by the decisions of a single, oddly hungry guy far away, who thought eating some kind of wild animal infected by this micro virus was a good idea.

Yeah, 1 dude. 1 animal. 1 virus and here we are! Some “Intelligent Design”!


----------



## Lola

torndownunit said:


> I am at risk due to past pneumonia. I've given up debating with people who are proud of this 'fuck it/fuck you' attitude and this virus. You nailed. I don't want to get sick (possibly dangerously so) due to someone else's bravado.


I agree. My husband is very high risk and is avoiding ppl and places. My husband’s immune system has been compromised by that horrible “C” word. I am very careful of what I do and what I touch. He’s currently in remission, thank the lord. 

Ppl are saying if your going to get it, you’re going to get it. I can’t afford to take anything home that could kill him. 

Some ppl just don’t give a shit. I can’t afford to have this attitude.


----------



## 12 stringer

Westjet cancels all trans border flights for 30 days as of Sunday 22 March.

They are now in repatriation mode, essentially. I just came back Saturday from Mexico on Westjet (good timing much?). My neighbours and their kids are still there and will need to scramble to get back early, somehow. I wish them luck and patience!


----------



## Judas68fr

I'm younger (part of an age group that statistically shouldn't be as affected as older ones), supposedly healthy (well I guess I'll know in the next couple months), but I still pushed to isolate myself, as I don't want to be THAT guy, the one spreading the virus around while feeling ok.

We need to think as a team, and do everything we can to protect all of its members during that storm. My thoughts go to the people in the front line (health care workers and eventually people working in the food and basic products supplying industry). We can do this!


----------



## Lola

Judas68fr said:


> I'm younger (part of an age group that statistically shouldn't be as affected as older ones), supposedly healthy (well I guess I'll know in the next couple months), but I still pushed to isolate myself, as I don't want to be THAT guy, the one spreading the virus around while feeling ok.
> 
> We need to think as a team, and do everything we can to protect all of its members during that storm. My thoughts go to the people in the front line (health care workers and eventually people working in the food and basic products supplying industry). We can do this!


Very well said coming from a “youngster”. Just kidding.


----------



## torndownunit

Judas68fr said:


> I'm younger (part of an age group that statistically shouldn't be as affected as older ones), supposedly healthy (well I guess I'll know in the next couple months), but I still pushed to isolate myself, as I don't want to be THAT guy, the one spreading the virus around while feeling ok.
> 
> We need to think as a team, and do everything we can to protect all of its members during that storm. My thoughts go to the people in the front line (health care workers and eventually people working in the food and basic products supplying industry). We can do this!


Isolation won't be fun and vulnerable people need to be checked on obviously. But in general, and especially for healthy people, the self isolating is not going to harm them. Saying you don't care and going out to do activities that aren't essential can definitely cause harm though. 

But, it's a case of dealing with people who still won't even accept this is a serious situation never mind accepting the whole carrying and spreading logic.


----------



## Chito

Ontario is now on a state of emergency. We are getting close to a lockdown.


----------



## tomee2

Lola said:


> I agree. My husband is very high risk and is avoiding ppl and places. My husband’s immune system has been compromised by that horrible “C” word. I am very careful of what I do and what I touch. He’s currently in remission, thank the lord.
> 
> Ppl are saying if your going to get it, you’re going to get it. I can’t afford to take anything home that could kill him.
> 
> Some ppl just don’t give a shit. I can’t afford to have this attitude.


No one can afford to have this attitude. 

Here’s a really good explanation on virus growth...showing how 100% infection is not guaranteed, and if we all self isolate the growth can slow down dramatically. Watching to the end explains why we need to sit at home 6 feet away from even our kids.





Lots of data here, not intended to scare you but good for you to take it seriously. 
Coronavirus Age, Sex, Demographics (COVID-19) - Worldometer

“We’re all going to get it so what” is not a good attitude. We need to make sure that if or when your husband gets it, or I get it, there’s a hospital bed and caregivers available. The “I don’t care, this is just another flu” attitude will result in the scenario where people of all ages are sent to recovery/isolation camps to die, because there are no respirators or caregivers.


----------



## mhammer

Four potential lessons/insights coming from all of this:

1) We're getting an abject lesson in what sorts of work/jobs get to remain in Canada for good, and what sorts of jobs/work, capable of "being done from home" could conceivably be outsourced down the line.

2) What are the virtues of, and obstacles to, collective action for the betterment of society/community. It's not often we have to engage in something together, apart from the odd telethon or charity run. I know it's not all kumbaya, but the emphasis on mutual reliance these days provides a good lesson for the future.

3) People are better than virtual people. Folks are going to be so glad to be out and about, hugging, smacking each other on the back over a good story or joke. Being truly sociable is going to be as big a pleasure as Electraglide's first meal yesterday.

4) In much the same way that firefighters became heroes and high-profile professions, following 09/11, epidemiology and public health are going to be "glamour professions", with a potential upswing in pursuing them as post-secondary programs and careers.


----------



## tomee2

colchar said:


> No, it is not.
> 
> The mortality rate is higher with Covid-19, but the rate of infection is nowhere near that of H1N1. That pandemic lasted for fifteen months, infecting 24% of the global population. In the US (since those are the figures I used previously) 60.8 million people were infected. So 60,800,000 people were infected in the US in 15 months. That works out to be 4,053,333 infections per month. Are you seriously trying to claim that the infection rate of Covid-19 is higher than that? So in the two months that this has been going around the US there have been more than 8 million people infected?


You’re thinking linearly. This is exponential growth. The US is doubling every 5 days, do the math to see how long it takes to get to 100,000,000 starting at 1,000. Counter measures will reduce the growth so that 100,000,000 is not reached, but it is very possible that the US will see 200,000 infections and 5000 to 10,000 deaths.


----------



## knight_yyz

Ontario declares state of emergency amid COVID-19 pandemic


----------



## warplanegrey

Want to read something wild? Go back to page 1 of this thread and read from the beginning again knowing what it’s like today


----------



## Lola

So tomorrow is my first official day of lay off. I am getting right into the swing of things by starting to cook from scratch again. That way I will only have to buy staples to keep this project going. It’s a lot of work but I will have a lot of time on my hands.Besides there is nothing like home cooking. I need to keep busy. And....of course, my guitars are going to get a lot more playing time.

Going to start cleaning up the garden and the back yard. We all need to get out on the fresh air an forget the phone and television. A lot of us neglect to enjoy the simpler things in life.

Walking the dogs a couple of times a day and I got some new rollerskates I am dying to check out.

Enjoy your day.


----------



## torndownunit

tomee2 said:


> You’re thinking linearly. This is exponential growth. The US is doubling every 5 days, do the math to see how long it takes to get to 100,000,000 starting at 1,000. Counter measures will reduce the growth so that 100,000,000 is not reached, but it is very possible that the US will see 200,000 infections and 5000 to 10,000 deaths.


And when people write off the 'only' 3% fatality rate (or in that ballpark), think of what 3% of this virus would be if measures weren't taken to stop it. 3% of a shitload of people is a shitload of people still.


----------



## torndownunit

Lola said:


> So tomorrow is my first official day of lay off. I am getting right into the swing of things by starting to cook from scratch again. That way I will only have to buy staples to keep this project going. It’s a lot of work but I will have a lot of time on my hands.Besides there is nothing like home cooking. I need to keep busy. And....of course, my guitars are going to get a lot more playing time.
> 
> Going to start cleaning up the garden and the back yard. We all need to get out on the fresh air an forget the phone and television. A lot of us neglect to enjoy the simpler things in life.
> 
> Walking the dogs a couple of times a day and I got some new rollerskates I am dying to check out.
> 
> Enjoy your day.


In our area it's supposed to warm up a lot by late week. I have been making an effort to get out and start my hiking season (it would have been done either either, I hike a ton), but the trails are still pretty treacherous with ice in my area. So I have been walking the track by the highschool near me. I think I will completely move my furniture around too for a change.


----------



## torndownunit

Lola said:


> So tomorrow is my first official day of lay off. I am getting right into the swing of things by starting to cook from scratch again. That way I will only have to buy staples to keep this project going. It’s a lot of work but I will have a lot of time on my hands.Besides there is nothing like home cooking. I need to keep busy. And....of course, my guitars are going to get a lot more playing time.
> 
> Going to start cleaning up the garden and the back yard. We all need to get out on the fresh air an forget the phone and television. A lot of us neglect to enjoy the simpler things in life.
> 
> Walking the dogs a couple of times a day and I got some new rollerskates I am dying to check out.
> 
> Enjoy your day.


In our area (you aren't far from me) it's supposed to warm up a lot by late week. I have been making an effort to get out and start my hiking season (it would have been done either way, I hike a ton), but the trails are still pretty treacherous with ice in my area. So I have been walking the track by the highschool near me. I think I will completely move my furniture around too for a change.


----------



## davetcan

Chito said:


> Ontario is now on a state of emergency. We are getting close to a lockdown.


If people refuse to get on board with the recommended self isolation and social distancing then we'll end up on lockdown. It's in everyone's best interest to do their share.


----------



## davetcan

torndownunit said:


> And when people write off the 'only' 3% fatality rate (or in that ballpark), think of what 3% of this virus would be if measures weren't taken to stop it. 3% of a shitload of people is a shitload of people still.


Active and closed cases worldwide are running between 6 and 8% mortality.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 188,356 Cases and 7,499 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer


----------



## torndownunit

I have collected EI when I used to work seasonally, so I know a bit about it. I have some people asking me questions, and I don't like to give advice unless I feel like I know what I am talking about. Virus or no virus, if you are laid off or fired for a shortage of work, you are eligible for EI (as long as you have enough hours), correct? Some of these people are in a situation where they aren't laid off or fired. Should they demand one or the other, or apply for EI and have Services Canada get an ROE from the company if the company won't make a choice and give out the ROEs?


----------



## Guitar101

mike_oxbig said:


> Hey not to throw gas on the fire but I had another thought
> 
> It’s mosquito season soon


When we do find a vaccine for Covid-19 and we will. Why don't we genetically modify mosquito's to inject the vaccine when they bite you.


----------



## Lola

Guitar101 said:


> When we do find a vaccine for Covid-19 and we will. Why don't we genetically modify mosquito's to inject the vaccine when they bite you.


Who’d a thought? Brilliant idea. Lol


----------



## allthumbs56

Guitar101 said:


> When we do find a vaccine for Covid-19 and we will. Why don't we genetically modify mosquito's to inject the vaccine when they bite you.


I can just imagine going to the pharmacy with my mosquito prescription


----------



## Jim DaddyO

torndownunit said:


> And when people write off the 'only' 3% fatality rate (or in that ballpark), think of what 3% of this virus would be if measures weren't taken to stop it. 3% of a shitload of people is a shitload of people still.


Astute observation. You can add to it by taking that 3% of the poplulation taking up health care resources and think that will be taken away from everything else. We already have overcrowded emergency rooms, hallway medicine, and bed shortages in hospitals. What happens when 3 % of the poplulation shows up with an additional problem?


----------



## tomee2

torndownunit said:


> And when people write off the 'only' 3% fatality rate (or in that ballpark), think of what 3% of this virus would be if measures weren't taken to stop it. 3% of a shitload of people is a shitload of people still.


And it’s not like 3% die and 97% sat at home watching Netflix... 5% are hospitalized, and we don’t build hospitals with extra beds anymore. 

Coronavirus model shows individual hospitals what to expect - STAT
“The percentage of Covid-19 patients who need to be hospitalized (5%, reflecting the fact that most people have only mild or moderate illness); the percentage who need to be in an ICU (2%) or on a ventilator (1%); and the length of stay for each of these three.”


----------



## Ship of fools

For those of you who like to read still Dean Koontz The Eye's of Darkness written in 1981 about a virus created in Wuhan China called Wuhan 400. Designed as a perfect weapon.
Most elective surgeries will be cancelled to make room in the hospitals for the wave they expect and have never seen our emergency so empty this time of year.
And nice to see milleniums in Florida are out in spring break by the thousands good thing that they are going to be the carriers and spread it to us fine old folks gotta love these kids and their reasoning. Good thing they are smarter then us old farts right right right ( stupid jackasses )


----------



## torndownunit

tomee2 said:


> And it’s not like 3% die and 97% sat at home watching Netflix... 5% are hospitalized, and we don’t build hospitals with extra beds anymore.
> 
> Coronavirus model shows individual hospitals what to expect - STAT
> “The percentage of Covid-19 patients who need to be hospitalized (5%, reflecting the fact that most people have only mild or moderate illness); the percentage who need to be in an ICU (2%) or on a ventilator (1%); and the length of stay for each of these three.”


Luckily most of us here realize the logistics. But there are just some people who don't give a shit. I had a friend (I use that term really loosely) who left for vacation in Cuba 2 days after the first travel advisory. There was plenty of information at that point about what could happen. It was just a 'F you virus' type thing. For the first few days he was posting stuff on social media non stop. That stopped pretty quick , I have no idea if he's even back now. After watching his arrogance, I don't even care (except for his poor kids).


----------



## torndownunit

Ship of fools said:


> For those of you who like to read still Dean Koontz The Eye's of Darkness written in 1981 about a virus created in Wuhan China called Wuhan 400. Designed as a perfect weapon.
> Most elective surgeries will be cancelled to make room in the hospitals for the wave they expect and have never seen our emergency so empty this time of year.
> And nice to see milleniums in Florida are out in spring break by the thousands good thing that they are going to be the carriers and spread it to us fine old folks gotta love these kids and their reasoning. Good thing they are smarter then us old farts right right right ( stupid jackasses )


To be fair, my dad in his 70's was out and about doing stuff and being studburn until my family told him to stop. This isn't an age thing, it's an arrogance thing. There are just as many older people out there saying 'they've seen it all before and will be fine'.


----------



## Milkman

We've decided to close our office this week and everybody will work from home. As an antisocial person, hunkering down for a few weeks won't bother me much and my job can be done to some extent.

It's a little harder for my daughter and grand daughter, but they're moving into an apartment on April 1 so that's a helpful distraction.

I suspect even the hardest ass is starting to understand how real this is.

One thing I will say is that our politicians are NOT using this as a political football. They seem to understand that we need to pull together to survive this.

Anyway, scary times.


----------



## Chito

torndownunit said:


> Luckily most of us here realize the logistics. But there are just some people who don't give a shit. I had a friend (I use that term really loosely) who left for vacation in Cuba 2 days after the first travel advisory. There was plenty of information at that point about what could happen. It was just a 'F you virus' type thing. For the first few days he was posting stuff on social media non stop. That stopped pretty quick , I have no idea if he's even back now. After watching his arrogance, I don't even care (except for his poor kids).


4 of my siblings were going to Cuba last Sunday. Friday, the other members of the family including the next generation got on their case. It took us a day to get them to change their mind. One of my brothers who was going had a lung condition. Eventually they relented, although I should say that they were not happy about it. Now they are glad they didn't go.


----------



## vadsy

Milkman said:


> We've decided to close our office this week and everybody will work from home. As an antisocial person, hunkering down for a few weeks won't bother me much and my job can be done to some extent.
> 
> It's a little harder for my daughter and grand daughter, but they're moving into an apartment on April 1 so that's a helpful distraction.
> 
> I suspect even the hardest ass is starting to understand how real this is.
> 
> One thing I will say is that our politicians are NOT using this as a political football. They seem to understand that we need to pull together to survive this.
> 
> Anyway, scary times.
> 
> View attachment 300018


actually we need to separate to survive this. and let’s leave the politics out


----------



## 10409

Guitar101 said:


> When we do find a vaccine for Covid-19 and we will. Why don't we genetically modify mosquito's to inject the vaccine when they bite you.


That should be the new standard. Just imagine Anti vax moms smacking their kids all day red hair or not.


----------



## Electraglide

"3) People are better than virtual people. Folks are going to be so glad to be out and about, hugging, smacking each other on the back over a good story or joke. Being truly sociable is going to be as big a pleasure as Electraglide's first meal yesterday."

On that point, the first meal aside from the cookies and juice they gave me after was a Big Mac, Fries and a Coke. My son bought 'cause I wasn't allowed to "sign any legal document".....couldn't use my bank or credit card you see. It was ok, especially the Coke. The second meal was better, home made fish stew with plenty of coffee and home made cheese bread. One thing they forget to tell you is the effect a colonoscopy has on you when you have hemorrhoids. Anyway, at MacD's you gave your order at the counter and you were told to sit down and they delivered your food. It came in a bag, no trays, with everything needed.....there were no salt, pepper, straws etc. out for the public though we had to get our own cokes. The playroom was closed but there were about the same amount of teens in there that you would find at lunchtime on any Saturday. And the same amount of cops, the Macs is close to a station and it was lunch time. When we went to the Mall after so I could pick up some ointment at the drugstore there seemed to be the regular amount of people at the mall going about their business as usual.
It's going to be really hard to have kids "self isolate" especially if both mom and dad have to work. Actually the only difference in the day was when we got to the Colon Cancer Center there was someone at the door asking you the three questions....have you been outside of the country in the last 14 days etc., you had to clean you hands with some sort of alcohol rub and when asked for id at the desk I just had to show it to the girl instead of handing it to her. They must have had a cancelation or two because even tho I was 1/2 hr early I was taken right in. The only people I saw with gowns and masks on were the Drs. and nurses doing the procedures.


----------



## ZeroGravity

torndownunit said:


> Luckily most of us here realize the logistics. But there are just some people who don't give a shit. I had a friend (I use that term really loosely) who left for vacation in Cuba 2 days after the first travel advisory. There was plenty of information at that point about what could happen. It was just a 'F you virus' type thing. For the first few days he was posting stuff on social media non stop. That stopped pretty quick , I have no idea if he's even back now. After watching his arrogance, I don't even care (except for his poor kids).


A former co-worker I keep in touch with, left with his wife and two teenage daughters to Morocco - last fucking week! How completely and utterly ignorant is that, and they are not uneducated nor uninformed people, they knew exactly what is going on. And now surprise, surprise they are stuck there as Morocco has closed their borders like every possible connecting country. Next they will want the Canadian Government to rescue them - TFB, stay there, dumbasses. 

Or other acquaintances who were in the far east, Malaysia I think then decided they would stop over for a couple of weeks in Spain. They got out but only by a day or two before they announced restrictions from Europe.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

I called my local pharmacy today to inquire whether I should renew my prescrition early. They said they will not be closing regardless of circumstances. While I had them on the phone I asked if they needed anyone to deliver meds. He said not right now but took my name....he knows who I am so he knows my phone number.


----------



## High/Deaf

Milkman said:


> One thing I will say is that our politicians are NOT using this as a political football. They seem to understand that we need to pull together to survive this.


Of course, the perspective is different out west. Ask our Health Minister. Not a happy camper after the PM's speech.

But I prefer to keep politics were it belongs and out of this thread. You should too, unless you want to hear 'the rest of the story'.


----------



## Milkman

High/Deaf said:


> Of course, the perspective is different out west. Ask our Health Minister. Not a happy camper after the PM's speech.
> 
> But I prefer to keep politics were it belongs and out of this thread. You should too, unless you want to hear 'the rest of the story'.


I _was _keeping it out.

You too please.


----------



## High/Deaf

You brought it up. How is that keeping it out?


----------



## Milkman

High/Deaf said:


> You brought it up. How is that keeping it out?


I complimented our politicians (ALL of them) on not making a political football out of it.

You really have to want to nitpick to say I was bringing politics into it.


----------



## High/Deaf

Milkman said:


> I complimented our politicians (ALL of them) on not making a political football out of it.
> 
> You really have to want to nitpick to say I was bringing politics into it.


And I disagree that they are not making a political football out of it. Again, the perspective is different out here. We could go on if you want ------ or we can take it to the political forum. You are welcome there. But you can't just drop little political comments here and not expect replies.


----------



## Milkman

PM Addressing the nation now. I'll listen to him instead.


----------



## keto

Sorry, Mike, he's right.


----------



## torndownunit

Jim DaddyO said:


> I called my local pharmacy today to inquire whether I should renew my prescrition early. They said they will not be closing regardless of circumstances. While I had them on the phone I asked if they needed anyone to deliver meds. He said not right now but took my name....he knows who I am so he knows my phone number.


Pharmacies staying open isn't a concern, but them getting stock could be. I am trying not to be a panic buyer, but I was going to contact my Dr's office to check to see if they feel I should get a few months of my medications at once t be safe.


----------



## High/Deaf

torndownunit said:


> Pharmacies staying open isn't a concern, but them getting stock could be. I am trying not to be a panic buyer, but I was going to contact my Dr's office to check to see if they feel I should get a few months of my medications at once t be safe.


I have an appt this morning to get a couple of refills, but only because I'm nearly out and would have been going now either way (I booked it 3 weeks ago, when the world was a very different place). I'm not concerned about pharmacies running out of rx meds, there is no problem with the supply lines. I _am_ concerned over the short term about OTC stuff the public has free access to, though. And it's a demand problem, not a supply problem. It will plateau eventually.


----------



## Robert1950

Reposted from another thread, but hey...


----------



## jimsz

Some good news!!

China's government researchers say they have found the Japanese-developed anti-flu drug* Avigan* effective in treating patients infected with the new coronavirus and will promote its use.

The director said the tests were conducted in the cities of Wuhan and Shenzhen and involved 240 patients and 80 patients respectively.

He said those who were given the medicine in Shenzhen *turned negative for the virus after a median of four days* after becoming positive, while it took a median of 11 days for those without the drug.

The trial also found that X-ray photos confirmed *improvements in lung conditions in about 91 percent of the patients* who were given the medicine. The number stood at 62 percent for those without the drug.

China: Avigan effective in tackling coronavirus | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News


----------



## davetcan

Awesome!



jimsz said:


> Some good news!!
> 
> China's government researchers say they have found the Japanese-developed anti-flu drug* Avigan* effective in treating patients infected with the new coronavirus and will promote its use.
> 
> The director said the tests were conducted in the cities of Wuhan and Shenzhen and involved 240 patients and 80 patients respectively.
> 
> He said those who were given the medicine in Shenzhen *turned negative for the virus after a median of four days* after becoming positive, while it took a median of 11 days for those without the drug.
> 
> The trial also found that X-ray photos confirmed *improvements in lung conditions in about 91 percent of the patients* who were given the medicine. The number stood at 62 percent for those without the drug.
> 
> China: Avigan effective in tackling coronavirus | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News


----------



## allthumbs56

jimsz said:


> Some good news!!
> 
> China's government researchers say they have found the Japanese-developed anti-flu drug* Avigan* effective in treating patients infected with the new coronavirus and will promote its use.
> 
> The director said the tests were conducted in the cities of Wuhan and Shenzhen and involved 240 patients and 80 patients respectively.
> 
> He said those who were given the medicine in Shenzhen *turned negative for the virus after a median of four days* after becoming positive, while it took a median of 11 days for those without the drug.
> 
> The trial also found that X-ray photos confirmed *improvements in lung conditions in about 91 percent of the patients* who were given the medicine. The number stood at 62 percent for those without the drug.
> 
> China: Avigan effective in tackling coronavirus | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News


Bring it on! I think I'm past all of my birth defects


----------



## 14786

“To The Rest Of The World, You Have No Idea What’s Coming”: Man Lists 6 Stages Italy Has Gone Through

Here’s a bleak look of what’s to come if we don’t take this seriously as individuals and isolate. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## boyscout

For those self-isolating with their Netflix subscription:

A 2011 fictional (but in some ways very realistic) movie called Contagion, and a 2109 mini-series documentary called Pandemic.

After this is over we'll all be qualified to apply for jobs as epidemiologists.


----------



## vadsy

boyscout said:


> For those self-isolating with their Netflix subscription:
> 
> A 2011 fictional (but in some ways very realistic) movie called Contagion, and a 2109 mini-series documentary called Pandemic.
> 
> After this is over we'll all be qualified to apply for jobs as epidemiologists.


this should help calm peoples fears. killer suggestion. take a break, get off the dope and settle your lawsuits, dude


----------



## Lola

torndownunit said:


> Pharmacies staying open isn't a concern, but them getting stock could be. I am trying not to be a panic buyer, but I was going to contact my Dr's office to check to see if they feel I should get a few months of my medications at once t be safe.


Thx for the reminder. Need to stock up on my migraine meds now. Almost out.


----------



## torndownunit

High/Deaf said:


> I have an appt this morning to get a couple of refills, but only because I'm nearly out and would have been going now either way (I booked it 3 weeks ago, when the world was a very different place). I'm not concerned about pharmacies running out of rx meds, there is no problem with the supply lines. I _am_ concerned over the short term about OTC stuff the public has free access to, though. And it's a demand problem, not a supply problem. It will plateau eventually.


Aren't a lot of generics made in Asian countries though? Or is that just for the US market. That is more my concern, I can't afford a couple of the brand names of drugs I am prescribed. There's been a shortage of one of those meds a few times, and that was with no issues going on.


----------



## keto

torndownunit said:


> Aren't a lot of generics made in Asian countries though? Or is that just for the US market. That is more my concern, I can't afford a couple of the brand names of drugs I am prescribed. There's been a shortage of one of those meds a few times, and that was with no issues going on.


I don't know how it's playing out, but one concern expressed a few weeks back as this was breaking in China was that the INGREDIENTS for something like (forgive me, I don't remember exactly but) 80% of drugs come from there. Ask your pharmacist?


----------



## torndownunit

keto said:


> I don't know how it's playing out, but one concern expressed a few weeks back as this was breaking in China was that the INGREDIENTS for something like (forgive me, I don't remember exactly but) 80% of drugs come from there. Ask your pharmacist?


I will be asking my doctor, I was more just discussing High's point. Your additional point demonstrates well the things that people overlook when it comes to supply chains. I don't think I would have an issue if a month passed. What if 3 or 4 passed though? Definitely yet another wake up call.


----------



## reckless toboggan

allthumbs56 said:


> Bring it on! I think I'm past all of my birth defects


Except all 56 of those thumbs, of course.


----------



## 10409

vadsy said:


> this should help calm peoples fears. killer suggestion. take a break, get off the dope and settle your lawsuits, dude


I am legend started with a cure, just sayin


----------



## 10409

Florida be like “cash me ouside howbada”


----------



## reckless toboggan

mike_oxbig said:


> I am legend started with a cure, just sayin


I Am Legend is totally fake,... like so bad you can't even suspend disbelief,... I mean he wasn't even hoarding toilet paper.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

madness


----------



## vadsy

mike_oxbig said:


> Florida be like “cash me ouside howbada”


Florida,,. living everyday like its their last


----------



## High/Deaf

torndownunit said:


> Aren't a lot of generics made in Asian countries though? Or is that just for the US market. That is more my concern, I can't afford a couple of the brand names of drugs I am prescribed. There's been a shortage of one of those meds a few times, and that was with no issues going on.


Considering turn-around time for drugs, as well as most of manufactured drugs, must be months, I'm not much worried about a live virus coming via that mechanism. I'm more worried about all the live petri dishes that have been flying all over the world, acting as living incubators and eventually getting into my space. That's the most likely way of picking this up, IMO. It will only live on inert surface for about 72 hours, from what I've heard.


----------



## Ship of fools

No its much shorter of a time.


----------



## Electraglide

You can take this any way you want. 
Coronavirus Update (Live): 198,229 Cases and 7,965 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer


----------



## Lola

This just sucks. I have a wickedly sort throat along with an ear ache starting early this afternoon with a runny nose. I have been eating Sucrets all afternoon along with popsicles. Probably just overworked and underpaid. We moved our business in 3 days which was a humongous undertaking. Some Tylenol and a hot tea should do the trick. I am sequestered to the back of the house in the spare bedroom. I am only coming out to take care of bathroom needs. I am sure it’s nothing. If I need to say something to my husband or anyone else in the house I am just txting them. 


I am now officially off until April 8th. Making a list of things that need doing or I have neglected over the past little bit.


----------



## Electraglide

Lola said:


> This just sucks. I have a wickedly sort throat along with an ear ache starting early this afternoon with a runny nose. I have been eating Sucrets all afternoon along with popsicles. Probably just overworked and underpaid. We moved our business in 3 days which was a humongous undertaking. Some Tylenol and a hot tea should do the trick. I am sequestered to the back of the house in the spare bedroom. I am only coming out to take care of bathroom needs. I am sure it’s nothing. If I need to say something to my husband or anyone else in the house I am just txting them.
> 
> 
> I am now officially off until April 8th. Making a list of things that need doing or I have neglected over the past little bit.


Why not just book off until April 13th or 14th if you get Easter Monday off?


----------



## 10409

You’ll need to see a doctor for that....I’d book now if you have a family dr or go to the walk in when they first open with a mask and swim goggles

Hope you feel better soon. What irony this all falls on the usual cold/allergy season


----------



## Lola

mike_oxbig said:


> You’ll need to see a doctor for that....I’d book now if you have a family dr or go to the walk in when they first open with a mask and swim goggles
> 
> Hope you feel better soon. What irony this all falls on the usual cold/allergy season


Thanks Mike for the well wishes. I will most likely feel better tomorrow. I have been burning the candle at both ends. I have to go to the doctor for what is probably nothing but I can’t risk my husband getting sick. He’s weak and his immune system is just not working the way it should.


----------



## Lola

Electraglide said:


> Why not just book off until April 13th or 14th if you get Easter Monday off?


Nah. I am already off for 3 weeks and that will be enough time. I need to keep my sanity. I need to go back to work ASAP. I really like working not necessarily at this particular job but......


----------



## colchar

Rather shocking coming from the left-leaning _Macleans_:

When will the Chinese government be held accountable for the spread of coronavirus? - Macleans.ca


----------



## jb welder

Not shocking at all. He writes for Globe and Star as well. Maybe it's not the lean but the perspective from which everything leans that way. 
You're in the wrong section for that kind of editorializing though.


----------



## Lola

Going to clinic ASAP in the am. If things are okay we are taking off to the cottage for a couple of weeks. It’s the perfect way to self isolate from a world gone mad. Taking my guitars with me, lots of food and TP(lol) and we’re just going to take it easy and relax. I need to get my husband away from everyone and everything.

I really thought my husband was going crazy because he has been stocking our pantry for years with dry goods. We hardly ever run out of things. Now I am praising him for his insight into things. We have enough coffee to last a year. Costco trips are always a load of paper towel and TP whether we need it or not. We have been sharing with those who don’t have. My co-worker hasn’t food shopped or anything for weeks. Why I don’t know but we gave her some ground beef, chicken breasts, two cases of water and 60 roll pkg of toilet paper. I am glad we were able to help her.

Our pantry is open to any of our close neighbours who need anything. We have a barter system going on. Our neighbour made us a cherry pie in return for 1/2 a medium sized case of water. 





What goes around comes around.


----------



## Chito

@Lola You should constantly check for fever. It's the first thing that will tell you if you have the virus. Sometimes it's just probably a regular cold.


----------



## davetcan

Sounds like South Korea may be losing the battle and the US border will likely be closed within the next couple of days.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

colchar said:


> Rather shocking coming from the left-leaning _Macleans_:
> 
> When will the Chinese government be held accountable for the spread of coronavirus? - Macleans.ca


I know it's been a long time since I read McCleans, but doesn't Barbara Amiel write for them? Or did? That's about as far right of a perspective as you can get in Canada.


----------



## Lola

Chito said:


> @Lola You should constantly check for fever. It's the first thing that will tell you if you have the virus. Sometimes it's just probably a regular cold.


I am just a little warm and sweaty.Hopping in the shower and then to the doctors ASAP. I have a 9 am appt with my family GP.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Lola said:


> I am just a little warm and sweaty.Hopping in the shower and then to the doctors ASAP. I have a 9 am appt with my family GP.


Oh man, you and hubby should unfortunately stay in separate rooms for a bit.


----------



## allthumbs56

colchar said:


> Rather shocking coming from the left-leaning _Macleans_:
> 
> When will the Chinese government be held accountable for the spread of coronavirus? - Macleans.ca


_"Marcus Kolga is a strategic digital communications strategist, human rights activist and expert on foreign disinformation. He is a senior fellow at the Macdonald-Laurier Institute’s Centre of Advancing Canadian Interests Abroad."_​
Who would have thought that such a job even existed?


----------



## Milkman

What if people with Covid-19 start turning into virus zombies and other people start shooting them in the streets...…..

That would be bad.

Hopefully that doesn't happen.


----------



## davetcan

Milkman said:


> What if people with Covid-19 start turning into virus zombies and other people start shooting them in the streets...…..
> 
> That would be bad.
> 
> Hopefully that doesn't happen.


Don't own a gun but i do have my trusty katana close at hand (not the amp). Hopefully the zombies will follow the time honored tradition of moving slowly and being stupid.


----------



## Milkman

davetcan said:


> Don't own a gun but i do have my trusty katana close at hand (not the amp). Hopefully the zombies will follow the time honored tradition of moving slowly and being stupid.


Crap, are slow and stupid among the symptoms? Dang. I've been infected for....decades.

I think I'll stick to the Boss katana. It only _simulates _a beheading.


----------



## Milkman

Once again I have to pay respect to my company for placing the health of our staff above day to day P&L in this situation.

My job is adaptable to this situation to the extent that I'm easily able to drill into our servers with a VPN system and have perfectly good internet speed at home. I don't have a printer or scanner here but I can live without those.

I do miss the travel and I'm curious about the impact to me from the reduced structure. I was able to be relatively productive Monday and Tuesday.

So far I'm coping.

It's interesting (not in an entertaining way) to see the wheels starting to come off the domestic supply chain as opposed to the global one.

So far shortages of components from China have not shut down American car plants as I predicted. It's the direct impact of the virus that may do that.

I heard Cami is shutting down for a few weeks and one of my main customers just announced an unplanned shutdown starting March 23 and ending (tentatively) a week later.

Maybe.


----------



## guitarman2

Milkman said:


> What if people with Covid-19 start turning into virus zombies and other people start shooting them in the streets...…..
> 
> That would be bad.
> 
> Hopefully that doesn't happen.


Its never the virus that causes Zombies. Its the cure.


----------



## Dorian2

davetcan said:


> Hopefully the zombies will follow the time honored tradition of moving slowly and being stupid.


I wanted to say something but wish to keep Politics out of it. So I'll let Neil take it from here. 






Joking aside (sorta), I'd like to wish all the members the best in these times. Help everyone you can.


----------



## greco

High/Deaf said:


> IMO. It will only live on inert surface for about 72 hours, from what I've heard.


of interest...
New coronavirus can persist in air for hours, on surfaces for days, new study says | CBC News


----------



## Lola

So I went to my doctor and his diagnosis is strep throat. He took a swab just to be sure. Got a script that I have to get filled.

Hubby is going to the cottage by himself and I will stay at home.

I feel like crap so I will just relax and sleep most of my day away in between playing my guitar I guess and maybe some solitaire. 

My husband is going to learn sign language while time on our hands is in abundance.


----------



## vadsy

never a dull moment with you, hey? work, home, forum, cottage, doctors, neighbours. crazy


----------



## 1SweetRide

vadsy said:


> never a dull moment with you, hey? work, home, forum, cottage, doctors, neighbours. crazy


Don't forget busking.


----------



## Lola

1SweetRide said:


> Don't forget busking.


Not just yet. I am guessing end of April. I need to know it’s okay to be out in the public.


----------



## davetcan

Dorian2 said:


> I wanted to say something but wish to keep Politics out of it. So I'll let Neil take it from here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joking aside (sorta), I'd like to wish all the members the best in these times. Help everyone you can.


Well I do live in Southern Ontario, but outside of that I'm having trouble making a connection


----------



## 10409




----------



## Dorian2

davetcan said:


> Well I do live in Southern Ontario, but outside of that I'm having trouble making a connection


Just a quip about the response from our neighbors down there.


----------



## davetcan

Dorian2 said:


> Just a quip about the response from our neighbors down there.


Ahh, increase in gun and ammunition sales, LOL. That worries me less, at the moment, than the picture of the crowded Florida beaches. What are those people thinking ?


----------



## guitarman2

davetcan said:


> Ahh, increase in gun and ammunition sales, LOL. That worries me less, at the moment, than the picture of the crowded Florida beaches. What are those people thinking ?


Any Canadians up there partying away should be quarantined at the border for 2 weeks before being let back in. If the rest of us are basically holing up in our homes to take precautions it shouldn't be for nothing.


----------



## Milkman

guitarman2 said:


> Any Canadians up there partying away should be quarantined at the border for 2 weeks before being let back in. If the rest of us are basically holing up in our homes to take precautions it shouldn't be for nothing.


I do think many people had a relatively lackadaisical attitude to their travel plans in this situation and some of those people now find themselves stranded or having to dig deep to get home.

Yup, mandatory quarantine for anyone coming in now would be good.


----------



## mhammer

My brother-in-law and sister-in-law were in Florida, and planning to stay longer, but thought better of it. They started driving home to Orillia/Washago two days ago. I expect they won't have any problems coming back into Canada. How well-stocked their freezer and pantry are for a 2-week stay is another matter.


----------



## allthumbs56

davetcan said:


> Ahh, increase in gun and ammunition sales, LOL. That worries me less, at the moment, than the picture of the *crowded Florida beaches. What are those people thinking ?*


Same thing as we thought when we were young - that we're invincible.


----------



## mhammer

My attention was directed to a recent Washington Post piece on the chaos in the U.S. Federal Public Service. Small wonder they have not been as responsive as many expected them to be. Sorry for the political diversion. We often hear the expression "too many cooks in the kitchen", but things are even less organized when you keep kicking cooks out of the kitchen and bringing in new ones.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...9dce98-689d-11ea-b313-df458622c2cc_story.html


----------



## Dorian2

My Wife's parents go to Maui every year in January for 3 months along with a group of about 8 or so friends. They were supposed to come back on the 24th via Westjet, but luckily the entire group has managed to moved the flight up to the 21st. Exactly the same time as the original trip which helps. I think Westjet needs to be commended for the standout job they're doing to streamline the return before the cutoff date. They'll be self quarantining, but I agree that it should be mandatory as well. My wife basically told them that it's mandatory......they don't read or write English too well (Italian) so they may be none the wiser unless someone else tells em otherwise.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Milkman said:


> Yup, mandatory quarantine for anyone coming in now would be good.


It is manditory. You must! They are counting on individuals to respect that order willingly. I guess if they find people not doing it they will put other measures into effect that are more supervised. Which will put additional stress on the whole system.

It has been announced that implimenting the war measures act (it's now the emergency something something) is not off the table. Putting that in would put the country in a police state, enforced by the military. I remember the October Crisis (FLQ) and our family being stopped on the road by soldiers who lead their actions with the barrel of their rifle. Under the act you have no rights, you can be detained and held for no reason, for any period of time.

My brother in law just got home from Mexico and is in self isolation (quarantine). I just got my wife to email him to see how it is being enforced. I will get back to you on that.

NOTE: This is in Ontario, so if you are anywhere else that may vary. The act formally known as the war measures act would be country wide as it is a federal act. There are other acts that the Provinces can enact that would increase their authority.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Ottawa can make quarantines mandatory — here's why it likely won't | CBC News


----------



## 12 stringer

The PM just announced a comprehensive help package for all Canadians to essentially ensure across-the-board basic well being continues. This is especially welcome news to self employed folks, people laid off due to covid-19, etc. It won't directly affect me as I am retired but I am very impressed with what they are proposing. Read all about it in your fav news network.


----------



## 12 stringer

Jim DaddyO said:


> .... My brother in law just got home from Mexico and is in self isolation (quarantine). I just got my wife to email him to see how it is being enforced. I will get back to you on that......


I just came back from Mexico this Saturday last. It was asked and suggested that we self-isolate for 14 days (and we are) but not forced. It may be forced for "dangerous" countries (i.e. Italy, Iran, Korea, China etc) but it would likely be impossible to enforce such an isolation for all travelers from everywhere. I think the vast majority of travelers do "get it" on having to self isolate.


----------



## Doug Gifford

davetcan said:


> Don't own a gun but i do have my trusty katana close at hand (not the amp). Hopefully the zombies will follow the time honored tradition of moving slowly and being stupid.


US sales of guns and ammunition soar amid coronavirus panic buying


----------



## keto

I wonder if the aid packages are taxable. I suppose they will be.....


----------



## leftysg

davetcan said:


> Don't own a gun but i do have my trusty katana close at hand (not the amp). Hopefully the zombies will follow the time honored tradition of moving slowly and being stupid.


Dang, I knew there was a reason why I should have bought the 100W instead of the 50W.


----------



## Milkman

keto said:


> I wonder if the aid packages are taxable. I suppose they will be.....



Funny, some might interpret this as political. Really depends on your perspective it seems.


----------



## keto

Milkman said:


> Funny, some might interpret this as political. Really depends on your perspective it seems.


Oh, I suppose. I was thinking more about personal financial management, it wasn't any sort of criticism.


----------



## Sneaky

meanwhile in the UK





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=913361455799042


----------



## greco

Very uplifting ...

'Demand's been high': Niagara distiller making free hand sanitizer for police, health-care workers, others | CBC News


----------



## colchar

allthumbs56 said:


> _"Marcus Kolga is a strategic digital communications strategist, human rights activist and expert on foreign disinformation. He is a senior fellow at the Macdonald-Laurier Institute’s Centre of Advancing Canadian Interests Abroad."_​
> Who would have thought that such a job even existed?



I'm an academic, jobs like that are routine in my experience. Granted, academia is far from typical.


----------



## allthumbs56

12 stringer said:


> The PM just announced a comprehensive help package for all Canadians to essentially ensure across-the-board basic well being continues. *This is especially welcome news to self employed folks*, people laid off due to covid-19, etc. It won't directly affect me as I am retired but I am very impressed with what they are proposing. Read all about it in your fav news network.


Today? I missed that. Yesterday it was only for self-employed who had voluntarily paid into EI - which is pretty much none of us


----------



## reckless toboggan

davetcan said:


> ... people thinking ?


I think I found the inherent flaw in your question.


----------



## allthumbs56

colchar said:


> I'm an academic, jobs like that are routine in my experience. Granted, academia is far from typical.


Really? So there are likely more than one "Centre of Advancing Canadian Interests Abroad"? Fascinating.


----------



## allthumbs56

greco said:


> Very uplifting ...
> 
> 'Demand's been high': Niagara distiller making free hand sanitizer for police, health-care workers, others | CBC News


Drench the cops hands in booze! Wonder if that'll skew some breathalizers ...............


----------



## boyscout

allthumbs56 said:


> Today? I missed that. Yesterday it was only for self-employed who had voluntarily paid into EI - which is pretty much none of us


From CBC News, so you know it's complete and accurate:

_The emergency aid plan includes:_

_A temporary boost to Canada Child Benefit payments, delivering about $2 billion in extra support._
_A new Emergency Care Benefit of up to $900 biweekly, up to 15 weeks, to provide income support to workers, including the self-employed, who have to stay home and don't qualify for paid sick leave or employment insurance. The measure could disburse up to $10 billion._
_A new Emergency Support Benefit to provide up to $5 billion in support to workers who are not eligible for EI and who are facing unemployment. _
_A six-month, interest-free reprieve on student loan payments._
_Doubling the homeless care program. _
_Extending the tax filing deadline to June 1._
_Allowing taxpayers to defer until after Aug. 31 tax payments that are due after today and before September._
_$305 million for a new Indigenous Community Support Fund to address immediate needs in First Nations, Inuit and Métis Nation communities._


----------



## colchar

keto said:


> I wonder if the aid packages are taxable. I suppose they will be.....



Tax is taxable (check your Bell or Rogers bill!) so this definitely will be.


----------



## colchar

allthumbs56 said:


> Really? So there are likely more than one "Centre of Advancing Canadian Interests Abroad"? Fascinating.



Different name, same purpose but yeah I expect there are at least half a dozen across the country.


----------



## reckless toboggan

boyscout said:


> From CBC News, so you know it's complete and accurate:
> 
> _The emergency aid plan includes:_
> 
> _A temporary boost to Canada Child Benefit payments, delivering about $2 billion in extra support._
> _A new Emergency Care Benefit of up to $900 biweekly, up to 15 weeks, to provide income support to workers, including the self-employed, who have to stay home and don't qualify for paid sick leave or employment insurance. The measure could disburse up to $10 billion._
> _A new Emergency Support Benefit to provide up to $5 billion in support to workers who are not eligible for EI and who are facing unemployment. _
> _A six-month, interest-free reprieve on student loan payments._
> _Doubling the homeless care program. _
> _Extending the tax filing deadline to June 1._
> _Allowing taxpayers to defer until after Aug. 31 tax payments that are due after today and before September._
> _$305 million for a new Indigenous Community Support Fund to address immediate needs in First Nations, Inuit and Métis Nation communities._


 Additionally, the Prime Minister and the Finance Minister both stressed that this was just the first stage of a multi-stage plan, and that there would be even more funding rolled out in the future.


----------



## Milkman

keto said:


> Oh, I suppose. I was thinking more about personal financial management, it wasn't any sort of criticism.



Ah I see.


----------



## allthumbs56

boyscout said:


> From CBC News, so you know it's complete and accurate:
> 
> _The emergency aid plan includes:_
> 
> _A temporary boost to Canada Child Benefit payments, delivering about $2 billion in extra support._
> _A new Emergency Care Benefit of up to $900 biweekly, up to 15 weeks, to provide income support to workers, including the self-employed, who have to stay home and don't qualify for paid sick leave or employment insurance. The measure could disburse up to $10 billion._
> _A new Emergency Support Benefit to provide up to $5 billion in support to workers who are not eligible for EI and who are facing unemployment. _
> _A six-month, interest-free reprieve on student loan payments._
> _Doubling the homeless care program. _
> _Extending the tax filing deadline to June 1._
> _Allowing taxpayers to defer until after Aug. 31 tax payments that are due after today and before September._
> _$305 million for a new Indigenous Community Support Fund to address immediate needs in First Nations, Inuit and Métis Nation communities._


Ahhhhh - thanks. 

I wonder how easy it will be to apply for.


----------



## SG-Rocker

Man, I feel sorry for the survivors who are gonna have to pay for all this.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


----------



## colchar

jb welder said:


> Not shocking at all. He writes for Globe and Star as well.


Apparently you don't realize that Pravda, oops I mean the _Star_, is basically the official mouthpiece of the Liberal party.




> Maybe it's not the lean but the perspective from which everything leans that way.


Yeah, sure.





> You're in the wrong section for that kind of editorializing though.



Get over it. I copied and pasted to save time.


----------



## colchar

allthumbs56 said:


> Ahhhhh - thanks.
> 
> I wonder how easy it will be to apply for.



Knowing our government, it won't be. 

A ton of people will be disqualified and will then kick up shit. Once it hits the media it will take several days before the government acts to address the issue.


----------



## boyscout

allthumbs56 said:


> Ahhhhh - thanks. I wonder how easy it will be to apply for.


I'll *guess* that one of the requirements will be evidence that you need to go outside your home to earn your income and the corona virus is preventing that.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

12 stringer said:


> I just came back from Mexico this Saturday last. It was asked and suggested that we self-isolate for 14 days (and we are) but not forced. It may be forced for "dangerous" countries (i.e. Italy, Iran, Korea, China etc) but it would likely be impossible to enforce such an isolation for all travelers from everywhere. I think the vast majority of travelers do "get it" on having to self isolate.


My BIL worded it that he was "required" to isolate, but there wasn't any enforcement. He was on a flight with a tested positive case, so that may be the difference.


----------



## allthumbs56

boyscout said:


> I'll *guess* that one of the requirements will be evidence that you need to go outside your home to earn your income and the corona virus is preventing that.


Here's hoping that it can be done online then


----------



## Jim DaddyO

SG-Rocker said:


> Man, I feel sorry for the survivors who are gonna have to pay for all this.


Isn't the US rolling out over $800 million in relief? That makes ours look like a drop in the bucket. Even without the exchange rate.


----------



## Lincoln

One son got laid off from his job yesterday. And now he can't even fall back on his NHL career!


----------



## Milkman

I just spoke to my Dad. He lives in St Catherines with my sister.

I was relieved and grateful to hear that he is taking this threat quite seriously. He's 85 and had a heart attack back in his 60s so obviously he would be in the high risk categories.

If anyone wants to see him in the next few weeks it will be from behind a pane of glass. No exceptions.

Really because of the nature of my job I'm connecting on this issue with people from all over the world.

I have friends living near Barcelona which is currently a very grim place to be. I also have many friends and colleagues in Japan including two who visited Wuhan as recently as January.

Additionally it falls on me to act as a liaison between our customers and our top management (and potentially our legal council down the road).

So, Covid-19 has been THE issue for me for several weeks now.


----------



## vadsy

colchar said:


> Apparently you don't realize that Pravda, oops I mean the _Star_, is basically the official mouthpiece of the Liberal party.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get over it. I copied and pasted to save time.


hey, fuckwit! can you save the politics for the political forum?


----------



## boyscout

Jim DaddyO said:


> Isn't the US rolling out over $800 million in relief? That makes ours look like a drop in the bucket. Even without the exchange rate.


On the numbers alone that's actually proportional to announced relief in Canada. Their population is about ten times ours.

However all the numbers are just political props at this point. Only in time will we see how much money gets out the door... I'll guess that in both countries we're seeing just the start.


----------



## Milkman

Brantford and Brant County has its first laboratory confirmed case of COVID-19, public health officials say.

A Brant County woman in her 40s acquired the illness after recently travelling to Mexico. She returned to Canada through the John C. Munro Airport in Hamilton from the Mayan Riviera region of Mexico on March 8, the Brant County Health Unit said in a statement.

Between March 9 and 10, she reported to work at Woodstock Hospital. She became symptomatic on March 11 and began to self-isolate.

The woman’s duties at the hospital require her to have limited patient contact, the health unit said.

She contacted the Brant Community Healthcare System on March 14 to report her symptoms and travel history.

She was assessed and tested by hospital staff who took all necessary precautions to ensure safety of staff and patients.

Her test came back positive for COVID-19 on March 17.

The woman is currently experiencing mild symptoms and continues to self-isolate.

The health unit has initiated case management and Southwestern Public Health will conduct case and contact protocols for those in their jurisdiction.

On Monday, the health unit said there were 25 probable cases and six have come back negative. Public health officials are still waiting for the results of the other 18 tests


(Brantford Expositor).

So this woman who works at a hospital, travels internationally in the middle of a pandemic, comes home and goes straight to work at the hospital.

Jeez my face is getting bruised from all the palm impacts.

I wonder how many of the other 25 probable cases are related to contact with her.


----------



## Lola

Just filling out my EI application. The waiting period has been shortened apparently. 

Husband has left the building. I have started my antibiotics. I should be non contagious within 24 hrs hopefully.


----------



## Milkman

Lola said:


> Just filling out my EI application. The waiting period has been shortened apparently.
> 
> Husband has left the building. I have started my antibiotics. I should be non contagious within 24 hrs hopefully.


Strep is a bitch and highly contagious.

But, it beats the shit our of Covid-19 no?


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Basically my stance is nobody is getting paid. Our shop is shut down and we have no income. I am not paying a cent to anyone connected to the business. Landlord, hydro, cogeco, enbridge etc. Etc. They can all work it out. I pulled the cash out of my business accounts.


----------



## Milkman




----------



## knight_yyz

The Big 3 Automakers and Honda have shut down operations in North America...


----------



## Milkman

knight_yyz said:


> The Big 3 Automakers and Honda have shut down operations in North America...



Yes, Honda only for March 23 until April 3 but GM indefinitely.

They'll all follow suit. We knew this was coming a week ago.


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> Strep is a bitch and highly contagious.
> 
> But, it beats the shit our of Covid-19 no?



I nearly lost a foot/leg to a strep infection (flesh eating disease). Back then I got lucky, _very lucky_, so that shit now terrifies me.


----------



## guitarman2

So far at our manufacturing plant here in Brantford I see they've laid off the afternoon shift. Still running a day shift and our heat forge is running a night shift of a couple people.
I've ordered in a bunch of extra laptops in anticipation of sending office workers home to work.


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> Yes, Honda only for March 23 until April 3 but GM indefinitely.
> 
> They'll all follow suit. We knew this was coming a week ago.



I wonder if that will affect dealerships? Mine has my tires and I need to switch over from my winter tires.


----------



## Milkman

colchar said:


> I wonder if that will affect dealerships? Mine has my tires and I need to switch over from my winter tires.


 I received a message from the local dealership this morning indicating that they were still open for business but would be taking precautions and asking that anyone with symptoms please reschedule their service.

I'd call them of course but you may be ok. The thing is, this is escalating so quickly it's hard to predict.


----------



## reckless toboggan

Jim DaddyO said:


> Isn't the US rolling out over $800 million in relief? That makes ours look like a drop in the bucket. Even without the exchange rate.


Firstly, the US is rolling out 800 Billion, not million.

Secondly,


reckless toboggan said:


> Additionally, the Prime Minister and the Finance Minister both stressed that this was just the first stage of a multi-stage plan, and that there would be even more funding rolled out in the future.


 If you want to calm markets and people over the mid to long term, it's better to continuously roll out packages, rather than blow your load all at once, up front, and have nothing left in the tank to appease the short term memory of markets and people.

And Thirdly, Canada is not the United States. We have 1/10th the population. So we don't need to roll out 800 Billion. 80 Billion? Possibly, and over the mid to long term, and the steady release of packages, we'll likely get there. In fact, we are about 1 week to 10 days ahead of the US in terms of response with the ramp up of the virus, which means our Government's actions are coming earlier in the cycle.


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> I received a message from the local dealership this morning indicating that they were still open for business but would be taking precautions and asking that anyone with symptoms please reschedule their service.
> 
> I'd call them of course but you may be ok. The thing is, this is escalating so quickly it's hard to predict.



I wasn't planning to do it until the end of the month but it might be a good idea to schedule it for as soon as possible.


----------



## colchar

reckless toboggan said:


> Firstly, the US is rolling out 800 Billion, not million.
> 
> Secondly,
> If you want to calm markets and people over the mid to long term, it's better to continuously roll out packages, rather than blow your load all at once, up front, and have nothing left in the tank to appease the short term memory of markets and people.
> 
> And Thirdly, Canada is not the United States. We have 1/10th the population. And, in fact we are about 1 week to 10 days ahead of the US in terms of where we are with the ramp up of the virus, which means our Government's actions are coming earlier in the cycle.



Aren't we behind the US (ie. we can see what is happening there and hopefully be proactive)?


----------



## colchar

Un-fucking-believable:

FUREY: Canada just gave 16 tonnes of medical supplies to China — let’s hope they return the favour


----------



## colchar

There have been calls for credit card companies to give people a break, but I haven't heard anything. That being said, I saw this on my Mastercard issuer's webpage today:

"_If you are directly impacted by COVID-19 and as a result are facing financial challenges, we are prepared to help you find a solution to meet your needs. We want to be there for you._"

No idea what that means, but it is a good start.


----------



## 10409

colchar said:


> Un-fucking-believable:
> 
> FUREY: Canada just gave 16 tonnes of medical supplies to China — let’s hope they return the favour


Good for us..? Can’t ignore the fire to chase sparks. That reads like it was written by the “Canada first” meme makers who never left their home town and think white spot is fancy. We can spare a boat load of masks. I was just in Home Depot...they’re right where they always were.


----------



## davetcan

colchar said:


> I wasn't planning to do it until the end of the month but it might be a good idea to schedule it for as soon as possible.


Did it myself on the weekend, in the spirit of self isolation


----------



## vadsy

davetcan said:


> Did it myself on the weekend, in the spirit of self isolation


feq'n rights.!, like a real man


----------



## vadsy

mike_oxbig said:


> Good for us..? Can’t ignore the fire to chase sparks. That reads like it was written by the “Canada first” meme makers who never left their home town and think white spot is fancy. We can spare a boat load of masks. I was just in Home Depot...they’re right where they always were.


lol,. _white spot is fancy_


----------



## davetcan

colchar said:


> There have been calls for credit card companies to give people a break, but I haven't heard anything. That being said, I saw this on my Mastercard issuer's webpage today:
> 
> "_If you are directly impacted by COVID-19 and as a result are facing financial challenges, we are prepared to help you find a solution to meet your needs. We want to be there for you._"
> 
> No idea what that means, but it is a good start.


Probably means they'll defer the principle portion of your payment for a few months but keep cracking on the interest. 


vadsy said:


> feq'n rights.!, like a real man


I gots the tools!


----------



## allthumbs56

colchar said:


> There have been calls for credit card companies to give people a break, but I haven't heard anything. That being said, I saw this on my Mastercard issuer's webpage today:
> 
> "_If you are directly impacted by COVID-19 and as a result are facing financial challenges, we are prepared to help you find a solution to meet your needs. We want to be there for you._"
> 
> No idea what that means, but it is a good start.


How willing anyone is to help will be determined by how you have to qualify. What is the proof that you are "directly impacted" and "facing financial challenges"? I don't expect that a note from your mother will do.


----------



## colchar

mike_oxbig said:


> Good for us..? Can’t ignore the fire to chase sparks. That reads like it was written by the “Canada first” meme makers who never left their home town and think white spot is fancy. We can spare a boat load of masks. I was just in Home Depot...they’re right where they always were.



Only one kind of mask is effective against this thing. The ones you find in Home Depot are unlikely to fit that bill.

And we had already had our first confirmed case when that aid was sent. Why would we send medical aid to the people who caused this shit, knowing that we would need it ourselves?

There is a shortage of supplies here now and those 16 tonnes would have made a lot of difference.


----------



## colchar

davetcan said:


> Probably means they'll defer the principle portion of your payment for a few months but keep cracking on the interest.
> 
> 
> I gots the tools!



Was talking to my brother about it and apparently the aid the government offered the banks was tied to them giving consumers a break.


----------



## reckless toboggan

allthumbs56 said:


> How willing anyone is to help will be determined by how you have to qualify. What is the proof that you are "directly impacted" and "facing financial challenges"? I don't expect that a note from your mother will do.


My understanding, from people in the know, is that they are lowering/removing the normal barriers/proofs for application.

Pretty much anyone who applies will get it.

However, as always with EI, you will have to pay tax on it at the end of the year, depending on your income tax bracket.

...that is unless the Government relieves that specific tax burden later on.

Further, my understanding is that:

People who receive GST cheques will get $300 for each adult and $150 for each child in their next cheque, which they are sending out in the couple of weeks.

People who receive the baby bonus will also automatically see the same increases to their monthy cheques.

There are similar automatic increases to Canada Pension Plan cheques.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Well, I just read through this government aid package and it smells to high heavens. We have been forced to close our business, we have no income source. Yet under the self employed clause of this package you either have to be in quarantine or certified sick with the virus in order to qualify for any cash. Basically, as written, we qualify for nothing. Thanks Justin


----------



## reckless toboggan

GuitarsCanada said:


> Well, I just read through this government aid package and it smells to high heavens. We have been forced to close our business, we have no income source. Yet under the self employed clause of this package you wither have to be in quarantine or certified sick with the virus in order to qualify for any cash. Basically, as written, we qualify for nothing. Thanks Justin


My understanding is that if you're self employed and chose to pay into EI, then you will receive it.


----------



## boyscout

mike_oxbig said:


> Good for us..? Can’t ignore the fire to chase sparks. That reads like it was written by the “Canada first” meme makers who never left their home town and think white spot is fancy. We can spare a boat load of masks. I was just in Home Depot...they’re right where they always were.


Maybe in some stores, probably not in most.

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/workhorse-n95-approved-dust-mask/1000539127


----------



## Jim DaddyO

reckless toboggan said:


> Firstly, the US is rolling out 800 Billion, not million.


OOPS, I fucked up there. Thanks for that.


----------



## colchar

boyscout said:


> Maybe in some stores, probably not in most.
> 
> https://www.homedepot.ca/product/workhorse-n95-approved-dust-mask/1000539127



If you do the search and limit it to 'only show stores with the quantity I need' not a single location shows up.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

reckless toboggan said:


> My understanding is that if you're self employed and chose to pay into EI, then you will receive it.


Do you own a business? Nobody pays into EI as a business owner. You can't afford to take a day off. We have not missed a days work in 13 years. You own a business you open. If you have employees you pay into EI for them. But that still does not answer the bullshit of having to be in quarantine or having to actually have the virus to qualify


----------



## reckless toboggan

GuitarsCanada said:


> Do you own a business? Nobody pays into EI as a business owner. You can't afford to take a day off. We have not missed a days work in 13 years. You own a business you open. If you have employees you pay into EI for them.


I'm sorry for your choice.

Again, my understanding is that if you paid into EI, you will receive it.

Yes. I owned 2 business before I went back to school on the money I made from them.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

reckless toboggan said:


> I'm sorry for your choice.
> 
> Again, my understanding is that if you paid into EI, you will receive it.
> 
> Yes. I owned 2 business before I went back to school on the money I made from them.


Not sure what kind of business you owned but it takes 4K a month to run mine before dollar one goes into my pocket. EI is not going to cover that. My solution to that is nobody is getting paid. They can all take it up with the government or the courts.


----------



## knight_yyz

Deferred payments on a mortgage mean that if your mortgage ends in Jan 2025 you will keep making payments after Jan 2025 until the number of deferred payments is made. So if you got 6 months you pay until June 2025


----------



## Dorian2

GuitarsCanada said:


> Do you own a business? Nobody pays into EI as a business owner. You can't afford to take a day off. We have not missed a days work in 13 years. You own a business you open. If you have employees you pay into EI for them. But that still does not answer the bullshit of having to be in quarantine or having to actually have the virus to qualify


Are there condsitions of proving you've self quarantined?


----------



## reckless toboggan

GuitarsCanada said:


> Not sure what kind of business you owned but it takes 4K a month to run mine before dollar one goes into my pocket. EI is not going to cover that. My solution to that is nobody is getting paid. They can all take it up with the government or the courts.


That's the greatest thing about owning a business. We can run them how we chose. Some survive. Some fail. Some get sold for a good profit.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

reckless toboggan said:


> That's the greatest thing about owning a business. We can run them how we chose. Some survive. Some fail. Some get sold for a good profit.


We have been in business for 13 years, that means it made money. We have also invested 13 years of solid work and capital in order to build it. We are now facing the fact of losing it all from something we had no part in. If you can't understand that, you probably do need to stay in school


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Dorian2 said:


> Are there condsitions of proving you've self quarantined?


Based on what I read you have to be in quarantine or diagnosed with the virus. Whether they are willing to forgo those conditions is unknown. Based on how this is going they will never be able to check on any of it. We will just ride the wave, not much we can do about it.


----------



## 10409

Not sure but there was definitely a shelf with a bunch of masks

You could also check your local head shop for one of these bad boys


----------



## vadsy

mike_oxbig said:


> Not sure but there was definitely a shelf with a bunch of masks
> 
> You could also check your local head shop for one of these bad boys


those guys prefer masks like these


----------



## reckless toboggan

GuitarsCanada said:


> We have been in business for 13 years, that means it made money. We have also invested 13 years of solid work and capital in order to build it. We are now facing the fact of losing it all from something we had no part in. If you can't understand that, you probably do need to stay in school


I owned and operated my first business for 11 years and my second business during part of the same time period for 6.5 years.

Work.

Capital.

The stress of losing it.

Check.

Check.

Check.

I was very conservative in my business practices and choices in terms of risk.

The reason I could sell them well when everything else in the business world was crashing down around us was because of the choices I made as a business owner.

To me, being a business owner meant:

You can lose it all at any time for any reason.

You get to call all the shots and make all the choices.

If you're successful, you get to keep the rewards.

Ain't capitalism grand!

I wish you and yours all the best in business and in health.


----------



## mhammer

On a more informative note, here's nice interview from today, between the editor of the Journal of the American Medical Association, and Dr. Anthony Fauci, the Director of the National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases. Fauci is one smart cookie. He knows when the data speak loudly, and when they just whisper. Worth watching.


----------



## Lola

Just an FYI. For those who live in the Durham area the new Food Basics besides Home Depot(Liverpool and #2) has plenty of everything with the exception of toilet paper. I had to run out to get a few things. They have paper towel, milk, water, pasta, sauce and their produce is really fresh and quite good. Their shelves are well stocked.


----------



## laristotle

COVID-19: Fast-tracked vaccine receives approval in China to begin human trials at virus epicentre

_CanSino Biologics Inc. and China's Academy of Military Medical Sciences will begin clinical trials of the vaccine in Wuhan 

The vaccine, co-developed by the Hong Kong-listed company and China’s Academy of Military Medical Sciences, will undergo clinical trials in Wuhan, CanSino Biologics said in a statement to the Hong Kong Stock Exchange on Wednesday. Wuhan is the epicenter for the pandemic that has spread to all corners of the planet, infecting more than 190,000 people and killing more than 7,800._

_CanSino’s trial involves injecting the experimental vaccine into 108 healthy adults, aged 18 to 60, in three different doses, according to data from the Chinese Clinical Trial Registry. Tests will start this month and continue through year’s end. The vaccine was tested on animals and proven safe and capable of eliciting immunity against the virus, CanSino said in its statement._


----------



## davetcan

Gotta be some of these left over in europe somewhere.












vadsy said:


> those guys prefer masks like these


----------



## ZeroGravity

I am doing my part to help local business. I've ordered beer from a local craft brewery for me and sent some to my son, who is isolation because ones of his roommates may have been exposed at work.


----------



## vadsy

davetcan said:


> Gotta be some of these left over in europe somewhere.


both masks will leave you gagging but only one will keep you coming back for more


----------



## GuitarsCanada

She is sick, she travelled, but cannot get tested in Niagara for COVID-19


----------



## 10409

Hopefully it can’t be transmitted from human to geese and back again. Sounds like they’re flying home from Miami Beach as I type


----------



## boyscout

A free mini-concert moment from Yo-Yo Ma via Twitter, some comfort in the turbulence.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1238572657278431234


----------



## tomee2

colchar said:


> Aren't we behind the US (ie. we can see what is happening there and hopefully be proactive)?


I think we’re ahead of them in terms of responding , like closing schools sending workers home etc., and behind them in terms of the virus spread. So you’re both right.

For example, as far as I know US Federal workers still have not been told to go home or work from home if they can. Many states have still not closed schools. Beaches are still full of people.... I think it’s going to get really bad there in 2 weeks. If we’re lucky, we might not see the same huge wave of cases they’re starting to see New York and California, and soon Florida. But Vancouver and Toronto both seem to have unaccounted for cases, and many travelers that returned last week... so we’ll have to see I guess.


----------



## allthumbs56

reckless toboggan said:


> My understanding is that if you're self employed and chose to pay into EI, then you will receive it.


I do taxes for a living. I don't know one self-employed person who pays into the EI program. Those who have tried in the past have found it impossible to collect as they had to prove that their business failed through no fault of their own. Regardless, (as of yesterday at least) you needed to pay into it for at least a year before you you could even try to collect.


----------



## reckless toboggan

allthumbs56 said:


> I do taxes for a living. I don't know one self-employed person who pays into the EI program. Those who have tried in the past have found it impossible to collect as they had to prove that their business failed through no fault of their own. Regardless, (as of yesterday at least) you needed to pay into it for at least a year before you you could even try to collect.


Yes. Exactly.

And COVID19 is one of the exact unforseeable and unprodicatable things, among many (like say a tornado in Alberta) that can sink a business through no fault of the owner.

As a business owner, it's what EI and other business insurance policies were designed for.


----------



## Dorian2

GuitarsCanada said:


> She is sick, she travelled, but cannot get tested in Niagara for COVID-19


Jebus.


----------



## allthumbs56

GuitarsCanada said:


> She is sick, she travelled, but cannot get tested in Niagara for COVID-19


So we've opened a testing centre but they won't test this woman because there is a shortage of testing supplies and there is no cure anyway?

You can't get tested, you can't get help, wait long enough and you "might" get a bit of money. Together we are on our own.


----------



## allthumbs56

reckless toboggan said:


> Yes. Exactly.
> 
> And COVID19 is one of the exact unforseeable and unprodicatable things, among many (like say a tornado in Alberta) that can sink a business through no fault of the owner.
> 
> As a business owner, it's what EI and other business insurance policies were designed for.


And as I said, no business owner that I deal with pays for their own EI because it has never been worth it. Did you pay into it? Try to collect? A worker is eligible to collect up to 55% of their wage, easily determined via the ROE. What is the equivalent of an ROE for the self-employed? What is 55% of zero because the business failed?


----------



## Wardo

allthumbs56 said:


> Together we are on our own.


I figure if I get it I’ll just stay at home and take my chances. If I went to and ER they’d probably just tell me to fuck off.

Cosmo Music is closed; that sucks, there were some things I needed.


----------



## 12 stringer

Wardo said:


> ...
> 
> Cosmo Music is closed; that sucks, there were some things I needed.


Fear not. They will do curb side pick ups, by-appointments and, of course mail it to you....


----------



## Wardo

12 stringer said:


> Fear not. They will do curb side pick ups, by-appointments and, of course mail it to you....


yeah I saw that. Usually they deliver to my office but we aren’t opening the door - I like the drive by idea - just throw it the passenger window.


----------



## reckless toboggan

allthumbs56 said:


> And as I said, no business owner that I deal with pays for their own EI because it has never been worth it. Did you pay into it? Try to collect? A worker is eligible to collect up to 55% of their wage, easily determined via the ROE. What is the equivalent of an ROE for the self-employed? What is 55% of zero because the business failed?


Wether paying into EI is "worth it" or not is one of the choices a business owner gets to make.

Unforseeable circumstances and low probability high risk occurrences are precisely what insurance is for.

Again, as I posted previously, my understanding is if you as a business owner chose to pay into EI, you will be able to receive it for COVID19 (which is what the Government has spelled out).

If, as a business owner, you chose not to pay into EI because by your judgement, it wasn't "worth it," than by all means that's your choice, and that choice may be reflected in your business and your finances.

I wish GuitarsCanada, his family, and employees all the best in business and in health.


----------



## Electraglide

boyscout said:


> From CBC News, so you know it's complete and accurate:
> 
> _The emergency aid plan includes:_
> 
> _A temporary boost to Canada Child Benefit payments, delivering about $2 billion in extra support._
> _A new Emergency Care Benefit of up to $900 biweekly, up to 15 weeks, to provide income support to workers, including the self-employed, who have to stay home and don't qualify for paid sick leave or employment insurance. The measure could disburse up to $10 billion._
> _A new Emergency Support Benefit to provide up to $5 billion in support to workers who are not eligible for EI and who are facing unemployment. _
> _A six-month, interest-free reprieve on student loan payments._
> _Doubling the homeless care program. _
> _Extending the tax filing deadline to June 1._
> _Allowing taxpayers to defer until after Aug. 31 tax payments that are due after today and before September._
> _$305 million for a new Indigenous Community Support Fund to address immediate needs in First Nations, Inuit and Métis Nation communities._


As usual it looks like anyone getting OAP and CPP get nothing.


----------



## 12 stringer

Electraglide said:


> As usual it looks like anyone getting OAP and CPP get nothing.


Right. And why should we (I get both)? We have lost no income from either so it's all good. The stock market, however - which is where the bulk of my income comes from - well, that's another story. Looks like I'll have to die ten years sooner at this pace!!


----------



## allthumbs56

Wardo said:


> I figure if I get it I’ll just stay at home and take my chances. If I went to and ER they’d probably just tell me to fuck off.
> 
> Cosmo Music is closed; that sucks, there were some things I needed.


Fuck off!

There - I saved you the trip


----------



## Wardo

allthumbs56 said:


> Fuck off!
> 
> There - I saved you the trip


Thank you; I am forever in your debt .. lol


----------



## Electraglide

Sneaky said:


> meanwhile in the UK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=913361455799042


My younger brother has been in Perth since mid November and his flight back in May hasn't been cancelled, yet, but they're looking into seeing if the Australian gov't is going to make any exemptions if people can't get back. I just read where Qantis and a few other airlines in Australia suspended all international flights so he might be there for a while. He says because of the drop in tourism the surfing has been great.


----------



## allthumbs56

A little hope?

https://www.connexionfrance.com/Fre...ssful-Covid-19-coronavirus-drug-trial-results

_"Professor Raoult is an infectious diseases specialist and head of the IHU Méditerranée Infection, who has been tasked by - and consulted by - the French government to research possible treatments of Covid-19.

He said that the first Covid-19 patients he had treated with the drug chloroquine had seen a rapid and effective speeding up of their healing process, and a sharp decrease in the amount of time they remained contagious.

Chloroquine - which is normally used mainly to prevent and treat malaria - was administered via the named drug, Plaquenil."_​


----------



## reckless toboggan

Total Canadian Government fiscal stimulus and support package as of today, $82 Billion.

And more to come as this plays out.

EI support for all.

There is:

-an employee EI Emergency Care Support program

-a program to give a 10% wage subsidy to business owners for their payroll

-a separate EI Emergency Support Program for business owners

It's the first story on several live streaming national news channels, for example
-


----------



## Electraglide

12 stringer said:


> Right. And why should we (I get both)? We have lost no income from either so it's all good. The stock market, however - which is where the bulk of my income comes from - well, that's another story. Looks like I'll have to die ten years sooner at this pace!!


A lot of pensioners, at least around here, now have to take cabs instead of buses.....the fear factor.....or pay for food delivery if they self isolate. Not too sure if Calgary has done it yet but it seems that Edmonton has gone to a Sunday bus schedule 7 days a week. Less buses with more people on them. Some of the stores around here have gone to an early shopping for older folks which is right at the same time as a lot of people are taking transit to work. If you go into stores, especially food ones, it seems that a lot of what's left is the more expensive stuff or you have to go to a more expensive store. Same with prescription drugs.....the cheap ones could be gone. Then there's this.









That will take a bite out of a lot of peoples budgets. As far as the stock market goes, that's another story....you took a gamble and you lost. Now you could be stuck on just OAP and CPP just like a lot of us. BTW, it could just be that there was no one in there but yesterday morning when I was on the C Train going to a meeting with the powers that be it looked like a downtown branch of the Bank of Montreal was closed.....nobody in it, lights off and signs on the doors and windows. Another cab fare that will have to be payed out depending on where your bank is. Another thing to think about is that if mom and dad are still working, who do you think is watching the kids if the schools etc. are closed.


----------



## Electraglide

boyscout said:


> I'll *guess* that one of the requirements will be evidence that you need to go outside your home to earn your income and the corona virus is preventing that.


Should be no problem for say a mechanic or millwright or such. Others could have a problem.


----------



## keithb7

In BC we're currently only testing people who need to be hospitalized. So we only show 231 recorded cases. We're in great shape! Right?
That might explain why far too many people aren't listening to the warnings to maintain social distance. The local neighbourhood pub was packed yesterday for some green Paddy's beer.


----------



## colchar

tomee2 said:


> I think we’re ahead of them in terms of responding , like closing schools sending workers home etc., and behind them in terms of the virus spread. So you’re both right.
> 
> For example, as far as I know US Federal workers still have not been told to go home or work from home if they can. Many states have still not closed schools. Beaches are still full of people.... I think it’s going to get really bad there in 2 weeks. If we’re lucky, we might not see the same huge wave of cases they’re starting to see New York and California, and soon Florida. But Vancouver and Toronto both seem to have unaccounted for cases, and many travelers that returned last week... so we’ll have to see I guess.



I saw a news story earlier today which said that Kid Rock's bar in Tennessee was remaining open. Apparently his business partner claimed that the closures were unconstitutional. I wonder how many more idiots like that there are down there, and how much of a negative impact their stupidity might cause.


----------



## colchar

allthumbs56 said:


> I do taxes for a living. I don't know one self-employed person who pays into the EI program. Those who have tried in the past have found it impossible to collect as they had to prove that their business failed through no fault of their own. Regardless, (as of yesterday at least) you needed to pay into it for at least a year before you you could even try to collect.



I heard this evening that they are coming up with something for business owners and others who do not pay into EI, which will pay them about the same amount (or exactly the same amount?) as EI would.


----------



## tdotrob

keithb7 said:


> In BC we're currently only testing people who need to be hospitalized. So we only show 231 recorded cases. We're in great shape! Right?
> That might explain why far too many people aren't listening to the warnings to maintain social distance. The local neighbourhood pub was packed yesterday for some green Paddy's beer.


This! It seems they are encouraging people not to get tested and it’s skewing reported numbers and sending a message that carries a false sense of security.

I am sure my two youngest sons had covid but will never know. Both developed coughs and low grade fevers, both of their symptoms disappeared completely within two days. In all my years as a parent - 18 years, I’ve never seen an illness go away so fast and decisively. My wife recorded all temps as she took them all day and night, not even a full two days and gone. We didn’t even bother w the 811 number or trying to request a test.


----------



## colchar

Wardo said:


> yeah I saw that. Usually they deliver to my office but we aren’t opening the door - I like the drive by idea - just throw it the passenger window.




Best not be ordering an R9 then.


----------



## colchar

Electraglide said:


> As usual it looks like anyone getting OAP and CPP get nothing.



No, they announced extra for people on CPP.


----------



## Wardo

There was something about paying 10 percent towards staff overhead for 3 months which wouldn’t make a difference if you’re looking at layoffs.


----------



## Doug Gifford

If I was young and not "at risk" I'd actually want to get the virus and get it over with. Then I would be able to work with no risk to me or to the people I contact. Wouldn't that make me a pretty high-demand commodity?


----------



## Wardo

colchar said:


> Best not be ordering an R9 then.


Please Leave Packages By The Door


----------



## colchar

boyscout said:


> A free mini-concert moment from Yo-Yo Ma via Twitter, some comfort in the turbulence.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1238572657278431234



Man, I have always loved the sound/tone of a cello.


----------



## Wardo

Doug Gifford said:


> If I was young and not "at risk" I'd actually want to get the virus and get it over with. Then I would be able to work with no risk to me or to the people I contact. Wouldn't that make me a pretty high-demand commodity?


I was thinking that too but isn’t there something about people getting it again after having it once.


----------



## colchar

allthumbs56 said:


> A little hope?
> 
> https://www.connexionfrance.com/Fre...ssful-Covid-19-coronavirus-drug-trial-results
> 
> _"Professor Raoult is an infectious diseases specialist and head of the IHU Méditerranée Infection, who has been tasked by - and consulted by - the French government to research possible treatments of Covid-19.
> 
> He said that the first Covid-19 patients he had treated with the drug chloroquine had seen a rapid and effective speeding up of their healing process, and a sharp decrease in the amount of time they remained contagious.
> 
> Chloroquine - which is normally used mainly to prevent and treat malaria - was administered via the named drug, Plaquenil."_​



There is a Scottish pop I drink called Irn Bru. It is incredibly popular in Scotland (the only country in the world in which Coke is available and it is outsold by something else, in this case Irn Bru), and is a known hangover cure. The reason for that is that it contains quinine, which is used to fight malaria. I was heading to the Scottish baker's tomorrow to stock up on Scots pies, bridies, etc. so I might as well pick up a few 2L bottle of the Bru and see if that boosts my immunity!!!!

If you see it in a store such as Sobey's, etc. don't bother buying it as they sell the stuff made here which does not contain quinine. Only the real, imported stuff will have that ingredient.


----------



## colchar

Doug Gifford said:


> If I was young and not "at risk" I'd actually want to get the virus and get it over with. Then I would be able to work with no risk to me or to the people I contact. Wouldn't that make me a pretty high-demand commodity?


You could still transmit it even if you were immune.

Also, there are reports of some people in China catching it more than once.


----------



## Electraglide

reckless toboggan said:


> People who receive GST cheques will get $300 for each adult and $150 for each child in their next cheque, which they are sending out in the couple of weeks.
> 
> People who receive the baby bonus will also automatically see the same increases to their monthy cheques.
> 
> There are similar automatic increases to Canada Pension Plan cheques.


We'll see on the 27th and the 3rd of April. Hopefully there will be an increase on OAP too. Will it be taxable? I don't think the GST will be but the others, probably.


colchar said:


> Un-fucking-believable:
> 
> FUREY: Canada just gave 16 tonnes of medical supplies to China — let’s hope they return the favour


That's less than 1/2 a 53 foot trailer. And probably a hell of a lot less than what people are hoarding now that they can't sell them online. From the sounds of it in the article China is returning the favor all over the world......probably more than 16 tonnes will come back to Canada. Sounds like Wuhan is ground central for vaccine testing too. If a vaccine works I can see everyone getting shots just like smallpox and polio.


----------



## Wardo

colchar said:


> There is a Scottish pop I drink called Irn Bru.


I spent a fair bit of time hitching around Scotland by myself when I was 16, 17 and 19. Never had any trouble but I remember another drink which had great medicinal qualities and could cure a hangover in a few minutes - it was called “Get The Bastards.”


----------



## colchar

Electraglide said:


> That's less than 1/2 a 53 foot trailer.



An average loaded school bus (about 35 feet long) weighs 17 tonnes and you think that 16 tonnes is less than half of a 53 foot trailer?


----------



## Electraglide

davetcan said:


> Did it myself on the weekend, in the spirit of self isolation


Looks like it's stopped snowing here for the moment but it's below 0'C, could get icy fast.


----------



## Electraglide

colchar said:


> An average loaded school bus (about 35 feet long) weighs 17 tonnes and you think that 16 tonnes is less than half of a 53 foot trailer?


The average 53' trailer holds......not weighs but holds 80,000 lbs which is 40,000 tons. If my math is still correct, 16 is less than 1/2 of 40. Also, there's a hell of a lot of empty space in the average school bus, even if you include the passengers and the bus weighs more than the trailer. A 16 ton load of whatever they sent would be packed in boxes.....no empty space. Floor to ceiling and wall to wall it might take up maybe 25' in length, depending on how bulky the goods are. Put it another way. A lift of 1/4 inch plywood weighs 2100 lbs.....100x 21 lbs., say a ton. You can stack them 4 tall. 16 tons is 4 stacks which is 16' long. I might not have a phd but I've loaded a lot of trucks and planes. Even if the load is bulky 16 tons isn't much. That being said, between the 4th and the 9th of Feb. how much do you think the various factories turned out? Probably a lot more than 16 tons.


----------



## Doug Gifford

Electraglide said:


> The average 53' trailer holds......not weighs but holds 80,000 lbs which is 40 tons.


Fixed it for you.


----------



## davetcan

Electraglide said:


> Looks like it's stopped snowing here for the moment but it's below 0'C, could get icy fast.


I
Left the snows on my wife's SUV, just in case.


----------



## Electraglide

keithb7 said:


> In BC we're currently only testing people who need to be hospitalized. So we only show 231 recorded cases. We're in great shape! Right?
> That might explain why far too many people aren't listening to the warnings to maintain social distance. The local neighbourhood pub was packed yesterday for some green Paddy's beer.


Maybe Green Beer is the answer. Drink enough of it and you could be safe.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Remember last week when we had a time change, a full moon, and a Friday the 13th?

Yeah, good times.


----------



## 10409

Don’t these talking monkeys know that eden has enough to go around


----------



## Electraglide

Doug Gifford said:


> Fixed it for you.


Thanks.....my math is good but my typing sucks.


----------



## vadsy

mike_oxbig said:


> Don’t these talking monkeys know that eden has enough to go around


You gotta keep it in 4/4, preferably only 12 bars if it, to make sense around here


----------



## 10409

vadsy said:


> You gotta keep it in 4/4, preferably only 12 bars if it, to make sense around here


What are you on about now
This is gc I didn’t come here to talk music


----------



## Electraglide

Jim DaddyO said:


> Remember last week when we had a time change, a full moon, and a Friday the 13th?
> 
> Yeah, good times.


There was a full moon, time change and a Fri. 13th......well I'll be damned. No wonder my pocket watch was out. I thought I just forgot to wind it. As far as the other two go it was cloudy. But then it wasn't until I saw a nice looking secretary with green ears standing in line at the tim's in the same building as the powers that be that I remembered what day it was. The tim's was doing a take out service only. So was the MacD's across the street. The tim's at Bow College was closed.


----------



## Sneaky

colchar said:


> Best not be ordering an R9 then.


They will be on sale soon. Best to wait a couple months anyways.


----------



## 10409

Jim DaddyO said:


> Two weeks ago, Italy had about 630 confirmed cases. As of Monday night's data, there were over 10,000 confirmed cases and 653 deaths. So there have now been more deaths than there were total cases two weeks ago. This virus moves rapidly once it takes hold.
> .


10 days later


----------



## 10409

Post this so I can bump it in a week


----------



## reckless toboggan

> Though China still has the largest number of cases, most of its patients have recovered. China even sent medical supplies to hard-hit France, returning a favour done by the French weeks ago.


Trump invokes emergency authority, no new cases in Wuhan


----------



## keto

mike_oxbig said:


> Post this so I can bump it in a week


Took this when....well,


----------



## Electraglide

"Czech authorities used emergency powers to raid a warehouse and seize hundreds of thousands of face masks."
Maybe the Canadian gov't should do something like this to all the people who stockpiled hoping to make a fast buck or three and now can't sell what they have so are hoarding things.


----------



## Sneaky

Vegas looking a bit different tonight.


----------



## Electraglide

allthumbs56 said:


> Appears to be doubling every 2 days. The math is frightening:
> 
> Jan 30 7,000
> Feb 1 14,000
> Feb 3 28,000
> Feb 5 56,000
> Feb 7 112,000
> Feb 9 224,000
> Feb 11 448,000
> Feb 13 896,000
> Feb 15 1,792,000
> Feb 17 3,584,000
> Feb 19 7,168,000
> Feb 21 14,336,000
> Feb 23 28,672,000
> Feb 25 57,344,000
> Feb 27 114,688,000
> Feb 29 229,376,000
> Mar 2 458,752,000
> Mar 4 917,504,000
> Mar 6 1,835,008,000
> Mar 8 3,670,016,000
> Mar 10 7,340,032,000
> 
> The Earth's population in 2019 was 7,577,130,400. At the current trend everybody on this planet could be infected in just over 40 days. If they find a vaccine it will take 3 years to make it readily available. Containment is essential.


I guess it sorta slowed down.


----------



## Electraglide

This is from the Dept. of Finance page.
Canada’s COVID-19 Economic Response Plan: Support for Canadians and Businesses - Canada.ca
The GSTC/CCB sounds like a one time deal in early May. They do have that "average amount" and "close to" thing in there so we'll have to wait and see. Of course everything requires Royal Assent. Can't seem to find anything about CPP or OAP but a quick check on my Service Canada page has the amounts to be deposited the same as usual. 


colchar said:


> No, they announced extra for people on CPP.


Where?


----------



## Moosehead

Just got back in from Whistler. Wouldn't have been the worst place to be stuck but the wife was starting to freak out a bit. Once we found out our flight was canceled (monday) it was a mad rush to get back home. Through 2 international airports and its fair to say we are on a 2 week lockdown here. Hope amazon is still delivering.


----------



## Electraglide

Moosehead said:


> Just got back in from Whistler. Wouldn't have been the worst place to be stuck but the wife was starting to freak out a bit. Once we found out our flight was canceled (monday) it was a mad rush to get back home. Through 2 international airports and its fair to say we are on a 2 week lockdown here. Hope amazon is still delivering.


I've never been to Niagara but I'd prefer Whistler even with the ski hills closed. Your "lockdown" self imposed? I thought you could still fly inside Canada?


----------



## knight_yyz




----------



## knight_yyz

Just read an article on Facebook. There is a special number to call for virus EI claims. Wait time on the phone is over an hour. 

Also heard that someone tried to defer mortgage payments and were told the process can take 6 months. 

Trudeau's 82 billion dollar package is worth 2700 dollars per person. Where's my cheque?


----------



## Lola

Hey all. I can see this thread is starting to consume some ppl. 

Go play your guitar(s) for a while. 

Get off your computer, phone etc and reconnect with the outdoors. I promise it will be good for you. 

I feel 80% better after starting my antibiotics. Gathering the dogs up and heading over to the Rouge Valley for a nice hike.


----------



## Mooh

allthumbs56 said:


> I do taxes for a living. I don't know one self-employed person who pays into the EI program. Those who have tried in the past have found it impossible to collect as they had to prove that their business failed through no fault of their own. Regardless, (as of yesterday at least) you needed to pay into it for at least a year before you you could even try to collect.


I am the sole proprietor of my own business, ie I own the business but have no employees. I teach private music lessons. I pay into the EI program because I could have used it a couple of times when there were breaks in my work (tornado, appendectomy). I used it after a major cancer surgery six years ago. Yes, of course I had to pay into it for a period of time before qualifying, but whatever. This time, I do not meet the qualifiers that were in place a week ago, but *if* I can believe what the government *seems* to be saying about *relaxing* the rules, I *may* be able to collect this time. Weasel words bolded for the obvious emphasis, doubt, and cynicism, ie I'll believe it when I see it.

I don't normally work during the March Break so that week won't be covered anyway. Waiting period? Don't know yet. Hope to return to work on April 7th so I doubt I'll collect enough to make a difference. If I'm off longer, and I hate to say it's beginning to look that way..maybe...who knows.

Through good financial planning, Mrs. Mooh and I have savings and investments enough to get us through a prolonged work stoppage. It would hurt, big time, but we're not going to lose the house or anything. I'm 62 and not yet collecting Canada Pension so there's always that possibility I suppose.

Going to spend today recording. No idle hands here.


----------



## mhammer

Watched an interesting Rachel Maddow segment on Youtube this morning. Apparently an experiment was conducted with an Italian town of around 3300, in which _every_ single resident was tested. IIRC, nine non-symptomatic individuals with the virus were detected, and those individuals quarantined. Following that intervention, there were no new cases, and no deaths, unlike the rest of the country.

This highlights the Achilles heel of the outbreak, and why it has been so difficult to stop. With comparatively little testing, relative to the population, managing contagion from known carriers has been hit and miss. Prohibitions against gatherings or travel, and social-distancing strategies, are important, but if you don't *know* you're a carrier, and you feel fine, just how stringent are the measures you take, or the measures taken by those around you? Hopefully, testing picks up, and safety measures become more closely aligned with risk.

Also encouraging are the number of distillers that have temporarily switched from making hooch to making hand sanitizer with the alcohol.


----------



## boyscout




----------



## Milkman

This has probably already been posted, but if you look up the word asshole in the dictionary, it now says, see coronavirus spring break clip.

If anyone ever needed a kick squarely in the nuts.







Meanwhile, Canadian students get it.
Ezra Avenue ‘a ghost town’ as partiers stay away


----------



## greco

Disgusting! Be careful!
A list of known scams related to COVID-19, from Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre - KitchenerToday.com


----------



## allthumbs56

greco said:


> Disgusting! Be careful!
> A list of known scams related to COVID-19, from Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre - KitchenerToday.com


Nasty opportunists.

Having said that, I wouldn't mind a list of infected neighbours - perhaps I'm on it


----------



## Ricktoberfest

allthumbs56 said:


> Nasty opportunists.
> 
> Having said that, I wouldn't mind a list of infected neighbours - perhaps I'm on it


Likely most of us will be on it soon enough. Just assume anyone you don’t see regularly is sick! 

Honestly if it weren’t for how it affects older people I’d not care too much about it. As it is I worry for those around me with compromised immune systems

That report from the French doctor about the malaria medication is probably the first good news I’ve seen about it that will matter in the near term. Any vaccinations or anything like that is gonna take months to happen large scale-if it even works. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## guitarman2

Ricktoberfest said:


> Likely most of us will be on it soon enough. Just assume anyone you don’t see regularly is sick!
> 
> Honestly if it weren’t for how it affects older people I’d not care too much about it. As it is I worry for those around me with compromised immune systems
> 
> That report from the French doctor about the malaria medication is probably the first good news I’ve seen about it that will matter in the near term. Any vaccinations or anything like that is gonna take months to happen large scale-if it even works.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How come in all the movies they create the vaccine in 24 to 48 hours. And its always discovered by one person, not a team.?


----------



## Milkman

I suspect much of the lead time in developing vaccines is bureaucratic in nature. Some of that is safety related, but surely some is commercial in nature.

The old timeline for developing vaccines has to be thrown out. This is a whole new situation and science has to act much more quickly. That may mean shortcuts.


----------



## boyscout

More video watching for the Covid-19 self-isolated.

Dave's Guitar Shop in La Crosse Wisconsin is the most amazing cathedral to guitar retailing in North America. It has just temporarily closed its showrooms - including the most-amazing one in La Crosse, Wisconsin - due to Covid-19. I know that it had no choice about doing that just because I have myself spent hours there drooling over the amazing inventory of guitars for sale as well as the ones upstairs in Dave's collection. There's NO way they could keep that place sanitary!

The video below was shot six years ago, a bit long in places but worth watching for the views of the store and the stories of some of Dave's guitars.


----------



## Ricktoberfest

Milkman said:


> I suspect much of the lead time in developing vaccines is bureaucratic in nature. Some of that is safety related, but surely some is commercial in nature.
> 
> The old timeline for developing vaccines has to be thrown out. This is a whole new situation and science has to act much more quickly. That may mean shortcuts.


As much as I like a good conspiracy theory, a vaccine is tested by not getting sick. So unless they decide to test vaccines by deliberately trying to get people sick you have to wait and see if it actually works in the real world. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vadsy

New plan. Everyone makes one of these


----------



## allthumbs56

Milkman said:


> I suspect much of the lead time in developing vaccines is bureaucratic in nature. Some of that is safety related, but surely some is commercial in nature.
> 
> The old timeline for developing vaccines has to be thrown out. This is a whole new situation and science has to act much more quickly. That may mean shortcuts.


"Desperate times" and all. Apparently that drug for malaria that's proving effective is being held up at the FDA because it's specifically for malaria. Governments in general (CRA specifically) will have to learn to overcome their culture of denial, red tape and proof to be able to deliver on the funds people are gonna need too.

Currently a cure (200,000 doses required) is probably a lot more useful than a vaccination (4 billion doses required).


----------



## Ricktoberfest

vadsy said:


> New plan. Everyone makes one of these


 Very fashionable! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## allthumbs56

Ricktoberfest said:


> Very fashionable!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And doubles as sun glasses


----------



## Milkman

Ricktoberfest said:


> As much as I like a good conspiracy theory, a vaccine is tested by not getting sick. So unless they decide to test vaccines by deliberately trying to get people sick you have to wait and see if it actually works in the real world.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Conspiracy theory my ass. I've seen what can be done in "emergencies" in an industrial setting. Development schedules that generally or let's say, traditionally took 18 months to 2 years can suddenly be done in 6 months when budgets and profit are not the priority.


----------



## vadsy

allthumbs56 said:


> And doubles as sun glasses


110% uv protection guaranteed


----------



## Ricktoberfest

Milkman said:


> Conspiracy theory my ass. I've seen what can be done in "emergencies" in an industrial setting. Development schedules that generally or let's say, traditionally took 18 months to 2 years can suddenly be done in 6 months when budgets and profit are not the priority.


So are you and your loved ones volunteering to be exposed to the virus for science? Don’t forget that in order to really test it you need people from all demographics including elderly and those with poor immune systems. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vadsy

Milkman said:


> Conspiracy theory my ass. I've seen what can be done in "emergencies" in an industrial setting. Development schedules that generally or let's say, traditionally took 18 months to 2 years can suddenly be done in 6 months when budgets and profit are not the priority.


are you talking about making turn signals for Honda or medicine for people?


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> I suspect much of the lead time in developing vaccines is bureaucratic in nature. Some of that is safety related, but surely some is commercial in nature.
> 
> The old timeline for developing vaccines has to be thrown out. This is a whole new situation and science has to act much more quickly. That may mean shortcuts.



It takes time to get from animal testing to human testing. Once they progress to human testing it takes more time. Right now they are looking for volunteers in Britain to be given a weak strain of the virus in order to test a vaccine. So they, at least, are at the human testing stage.

But you aren't entirely wrong about bureaucracy as they are also awaiting approval to test on humans. So even if they get volunteers right away, they might not be able to begin testing on them immediately.


----------



## vadsy

Ricktoberfest said:


> So are you and your loved ones volunteering to be exposed to the virus for science? Don’t forget that in order to really test it you need people from all demographics including elderly and those with poor immune systems.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


welp, no not exactly. But I’ve seen what they can do in the movies so....,


----------



## colchar

allthumbs56 said:


> "Desperate times" and all. Apparently that drug for malaria that's proving effective is being held up at the FDA because it's specifically for malaria. Governments in general (CRA specifically) will have to learn to overcome their culture of denial, red tape and proof to be able to deliver on the funds people are gonna need too.
> 
> Currently a cure (200,000 doses required) is probably a lot more useful than a vaccination (4 billion doses required).



Surely once one is developed (either one) it is a relatively quick and simple step to develop the other.


----------



## Ricktoberfest

vadsy said:


> welp, no not exactly. But I’ve seen what they can do in the movies so....,


I can never decide if I want things to be like in Hollywood, or if I’m afraid that things are like in Hollywood. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## guitarman2

Ricktoberfest said:


> So are you and your loved ones volunteering to be exposed to the virus for science?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You first.


----------



## colchar

So the feds have come up with an $82 billion plan to help Canadians. Since our population is only 37.6 million, wouldn't it be far more cost efficient to simply give each and every one of us $1 million? Hell, they could give us all $2 million and still save a shit-ton of money.


----------



## Ricktoberfest

colchar said:


> So the feds have come up with an $82 billion plan to help Canadians. Since our population is only 37.6 million, wouldn't it be far more cost efficient to simply give each and every one of us $1 million? Hell, they could give us all $2 million and still save a shit-ton of money.


Check your math brainiac

I hear msnbc is hiring, they like your math too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## knight_yyz

Your math sucks. It's $2216 per person


----------



## Milkman

LMAO

Need $37,000,000,000,000.

Ooops


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Well, I finally lost my shit!!!!
Was just in Walmart. Saw a man whose cart was FULL to the brim with hand sanitizers, baby wipes, soaps, TP; everything that people really need!!

I called him a selfish dick, and gave him a low down about the elderly, moms, and people who need these types of things. Told him he should be freaking ashamed of himself!

He said: “Are you done? Cause I really need to get back to filling the shelves now...”

We all need a laugh right now


----------



## allthumbs56

knight_yyz said:


> Your math sucks. It's $2216 per person


I'll take it!

Do I have to go to Service Canada or online through a sub-system of Phoenix?


----------



## reckless toboggan

Jim DaddyO said:


> Well, I finally lost my shit!!!!
> Was just in Walmart. Saw a man whose cart was FULL to the brim with hand sanitizers, baby wipes, soaps, TP; everything that people really need!!
> 
> I called him a selfish dick, and gave him a low down about the elderly, moms, and people who need these types of things. Told him he should be freaking ashamed of himself!
> 
> He said: “Are you done? Cause I really need to get back to filling the shelves now...”
> 
> We all need a laugh right now


Me and Mrs. Toboggan had a good laugh at that one!

Thanks


----------



## vadsy

Jim DaddyO said:


> Well, I finally lost my shit!!!!
> Was just in Walmart. Saw a man whose cart was FULL to the brim with hand sanitizers, baby wipes, soaps, TP; everything that people really need!!
> 
> I called him a selfish dick, and gave him a low down about the elderly, moms, and people who need these types of things. Told him he should be freaking ashamed of himself!
> 
> He said: “Are you done? Cause I really need to get back to filling the shelves now...”
> 
> We all need a laugh right now


just post the original meme you saw and give credit


----------



## Budda

So, who's still at work at a non essential place?

Who's making the list of companies handling this well vs poorly?


----------



## Electraglide

Seems like all around the world people are getting injected with various vaccines. Both the states and China are looking at probably 14 to 28 days. As far as eating bats goes, a lot of cultures do that, not only the Chinese and from what I understand the virus came from handling infected animals, not eating them. Possibly could have happened in Canada.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

vadsy said:


> just post the original meme you saw and give credit


I didn't see the meme, just read the post and shared it. But for anyone who is interested, I've never had an original thought in my life....lol.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

570 News is reporting that there is an employee at the Cambidge Toyota plant that has tested positive. There are a lot of people that work there and come into contact with an exponetially larger number of people.

Cambridge's Toyota plant confirms one case of COVID-19 (update) - KitchenerToday.com


----------



## colchar

Banks need to step up and increase the amount allowed for 'tap' purchases. Right now the limit is about $100, so for every purchase above that one needs to use the keypad. Increasing the limit would eliminate that need.


----------



## Ship of fools

For those of you not old enough to know anything about polio I remember reading that Jonas Salk had injected himself to the polio vaccine and then exposed himself to a polio patient. But one must remember that other drugs they did approve had some serious effects also like thalidomide which caused a shit load of deformities in a lot of children along with many deaths at birth. So its not as easy at it seems.
As for sending all of that supplies to China well it shouldn't take a smart person to know that it had helped in curbing the spread even more so. Had the spread not been curbed I can't even begin to imagine how bad it could have been. We could have seen a spread that was even worse then it is now.


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> LMAO
> 
> Need $37,000,000,000,000.
> 
> Ooops



It was a joke people, I lifted it from Facebook but obviously didn't make it clear that it was a joke.


----------



## vadsy

colchar said:


> It was a joke people, I lifted it from Facebook but obviously didn't make it clear that it was a joke.


it played well to your strengths so people thought you were being legit. this makes it abundantly clear though, youre shitty with math and terrible at delivering a joke


----------



## Milkman

So.....no million bucks?


What a gyp



Wait a sec, is that racist?


----------



## Electraglide

Ship of fools said:


> For those of you not old enough to know anything about polio I remember reading that Jonas Salk had injected himself to the polio vaccine and then exposed himself to a polio patient. But one must remember that other drugs they did approve had some serious effects also like thalidomide which caused a shit load of deformities in a lot of children along with many deaths at birth. So its not as easy at it seems.
> As for sending all of that supplies to China well it shouldn't take a smart person to know that it had helped in curbing the spread even more so. Had the spread not been curbed I can't even begin to imagine how bad it could have been. We could have seen a spread that was even worse then it is now.


I have a scar on my arm from a small pox injection and remember getting the Salk vaccine on a sugar cube and the a few weeks later getting an injection. This would have been in '56 or '57.


----------



## Electraglide

colchar said:


> It was a joke people, I lifted it from Facebook but obviously didn't make it clear that it was a joke.


A teacher who uses facebook......now there's a joke.


----------



## Chito

Budda said:


> So, who's still at work at a non essential place?
> 
> Who's making the list of companies handling this well vs poorly?


I was still at work till today. Finally got my laptop. Although my work is in an essential area so probably will be working through this whole thing.


----------



## Ricktoberfest

Milkman said:


> So.....no million bucks?
> 
> 
> What a gyp
> 
> 
> 
> Wait a sec, is that racist?


Actually it was, but don’t worry, it’s not his racism that offend me - It’s his life choices. I’m more than a little racist myself and have friends who go way beyond that 
This kinda thing brings out the true nature of people. It just brought out the fact that he’s a selfish prick. 

A teacher you say? That’s sad. I always tell my leftist friends that right leaning people are just as kind and considerate as left leaning people, they just don’t need the government to do it for them. Now I’m being forced to eat my words. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Milkman

Ricktoberfest said:


> Actually it was, but don’t worry, it’s not his racism that offend me - It’s his life choices. I’m more than a little racist myself and have friends who go way beyond that
> This kinda thing brings out the true nature of people. It just brought out the fact that he’s a selfish prick.
> 
> A teacher you say? That’s sad. I always tell my leftist friends that right leaning people are just as kind and considerate as left leaning people, they just don’t need the government to do it for them. Now I’m being forced to eat my words.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup, just confirmed what many probably already know, the term gyp is obviously derived from Gypsy so, yes, racist.

I'm sorry about that.


----------



## colchar

Currently more than an hour into a department meeting about how we will deal with the rest of the term due to the virus and it has yet to get to the fucking point of the meeting. It was originally a drop-in meeting but an email went out this morning very strongly suggesting that it had become mandatory.


----------



## boyscout

This is the recommended way to walk your dog during the Covid-19 scare.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240598509088387072
Quick, get your drone before the shelves are stripped bare.


----------



## colchar

A list of known scams related to COVID-19, from Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre


----------



## Electraglide

boyscout said:


> This is the recommended way to walk your dog during the Covid-19 scare.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1240598509088387072
> Quick, get your drone before the shelves are stripped bare.


Must have two drones. One for the dog and one for the camera. I bought my son a drone for Xmas and then we found out that he's supposed to get a license for it because it weighs 325 grams......clearly marked on the box. Not too sure if he's done that yet.


----------



## greco

Jim DaddyO said:


> We all need a laugh right now


Thanks! It was our morning laugh for today.

In addition, I admire and respect your intention.


----------



## allthumbs56

Budda said:


> So, who's still at work at a non essential place?
> 
> Who's making the list of companies handling this well vs poorly?


I'm working. Currently 3 days at home and 3 at the office. "non-essential"? I dunno - it's still Tax Season and the government is gonna need the money.

edit ** Went for a walk at lunch. My bank was open, the Smoke Shop was open, a deli was open, Beer Store open, Toner/Ink store open. Everything else I passed was closed. Oh - the LCBO across from our office is still open


----------



## allthumbs56

Jim DaddyO said:


> 570 News is reporting that there is an employee at the Cambidge Toyota plant that has tested positive. There are a lot of people that work there and come into contact with an exponetially larger number of people.
> 
> Cambridge's Toyota plant confirms one case of COVID-19 (update) - KitchenerToday.com


My next door neighbour works there.


----------



## vadsy

allthumbs56 said:


> I'm working. Currently 3 days at home and 3 at the office. "non-essential"? I dunno - it's still Tax Season and the government is gonna need the money.


have you heard anything about canceling taxes this year?


----------



## allthumbs56

vadsy said:


> have you heard anything about canceling taxes this year?


Just the deadline extensions.

If we "cancel taxes" then the budget won't have a chance to balance itself.


----------



## knight_yyz

I'm still at work. We make parts for fork lift trucks. 2 of us out back and 3 in the office. Other guy I work with out back is sick as a dog and has missed a ton of hours in the last 3 weeks. But he's 100 feet away from me most of the time.


----------



## Milkman




----------



## tdotrob

allthumbs56 said:


> I'm working. Currently 3 days at home and 3 at the office. "non-essential"? I dunno - it's still Tax Season and the government is gonna need the money.
> 
> edit ** Went for a walk at lunch. My bank was open, the Smoke Shop was open, a deli was open, Beer Store open, Toner/Ink store open. Everything else I passed was closed. Oh - the LCBO across from our office is still open


My company closed all physical locations and everyone work from home by email and phone.

That’s great but it’s all just order cancellations where possible and holds on the rest w next to zero new business to process from home.


----------



## laristotle

boyscout said:


> This is the recommended way to walk your dog during the Covid-19 scare.


Until a squirrel pops into view.


----------



## High/Deaf

Budda said:


> So, who's still at work at a non essential place?


I retired from an Essential Services job 8 months ago. Now the BC Govt has put into place the ability to call back retired ES workers as required. I would assume that would be because too many of them have already gone off sick. So they may want me to walk into that environment, immuno-compromised as I am? 

Fair to say I'll be checking my call display before picking up the phone. My ex-boss knows where I live, but he also knows I have 'self protection'.



> Who's making the list of companies handling this well vs poorly?


The late night talk show host on Chorus, The Shift with Drex, is asking callers to out anyone doing this. Allowing people to phone in anonymously, something I gather he doesn't usually do. But this pendulum can swing too far the other way. Moderation in all things.


----------



## vadsy

High/Deaf said:


> I retired from an Essential Services job 8 months ago. Now the BC Govt has put into place the ability to call back retired ES workers as required. I would assume that would be because too many of them have already gone off sick. So they may want me to walk into that environment, immuno-compromised as I am?
> 
> Fair to say I'll be checking my call display before picking up the phone. My ex-boss knows where I live, but he also knows I have 'self protection'.
> 
> 
> 
> The late night talk show host on Chorus, The Shift with Drex, is asking callers to out anyone doing this. Allowing people to phone in anonymously, something I gather he doesn't usually do. But this pendulum can swing too far the other way. Moderation in all things.


in summary 

_step one. kill your boss
step two. squash the rebellion_


----------



## laristotle

_


vadsy said:



in summary

Click to expand...

step 3. what am I worth to you? I wont be cheap._


----------



## Budda

knight_yyz said:


> I'm still at work. We make parts for fork lift trucks. 2 of us out back and 3 in the office. Other guy I work with out back is sick as a dog and has missed a ton of hours in the last 3 weeks. But he's 100 feet away from me most of the time.


Which parts? An inside guy might go a long way at my workplace lol.


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> _step 3. what am I worth to you? I wont be cheap._


_step 4. sounds like profiteering to me. You want the job or wait 6 weeks for something from the gov't? Next._


----------



## Lincoln

just came from the grocery store. The place was packed with people, shelves were empty. For those interested - no TP.

And a new twist. If you bring your own bags now, you have to bag your own groceries. Guess I won't bother bringing reusable bags anymore till this madness is over.


----------



## Stephenlouis

Im pulling 12 hr shifts, I refuse to do 16, too easy to start making mistakes. Saw my first unstocked shelf today, only drumsticks and wings left at the local superstore, Im a steak guy, so was unaffected.


----------



## laristotle

Electraglide said:


> _step 4. sounds like profiteering to me. You want the job or wait 6 weeks for something from the gov't? Next._


_step 3 addendum. pulling me out of retirement will cost you._


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Listening to CTV news.
Ontario is weeks away from running out of ventilators and ICU beds.


----------



## Lincoln

word on the street is Costco in the wonderland we all know & love as Sherwood park is only letting 10 people into the store at a time. 

Guess I won't be going to Costco anytime soon. B#(*


----------



## keto

My daughter says some of her friends sound just like this. No idea why anyone would put up with that. It’s called discipline.


----------



## johnnyshaka

Lincoln said:


> word on the street is Costco in the wonderland we all know & love as Sherwood park is only letting 10 people into the store at a time.
> 
> Guess I won't be going to Costco anytime soon. B#(*


My office is just to the east of that Costco and a coworker popped over there at lunchtime just to see what/how they were doing things and noticed about 30 people lined up outside. He didn't get out to stand in line...this time.

Sounds like they are finally clamping down on the hoarding, though.


----------



## knight_yyz

Budda said:


> Which parts? An inside guy might go a long way at my workplace lol.


We make all the attachments like rotators, snow plows, granite slab movers, booms, barrel handlers, clamps, scoop buckets etc...

I do all the machining and the sick dude does all the welding.


----------



## laristotle

COVID-19 won’t interact well with THC if its anything like the flu, data company says

_THC testing on mice with influenza revealed an increase in viral loads and a decrease in the ability of the immune system to fight off the virus _


----------



## SaucyJack

Experimental drug holds promise for treating the coronavirus


----------



## Budda

knight_yyz said:


> We make all the attachments like rotators, snow plows, granite slab movers, booms, barrel handlers, clamps, scoop buckets etc...
> 
> I do all the machining and the sick dude does all the welding.


Ah, not internal stuff.

From what I'm reading, this whole thing is going to get way worse before it gets any better. Disclaimer: I have not read a ton.

If only everyone could actually stay inside unless necessary.


----------



## Lincoln

johnnyshaka said:


> My office is just to the east of that Costco and a coworker popped over there at lunchtime just to see what/how they were doing things and noticed about 30 people lined up outside. He didn't get out to stand in line...this time.
> 
> Sounds like they are finally clamping down on the hoarding, though.


Only 30 people??? There's hope for humanity yet.


----------



## Distortion

been in my TD branch a few times. Went in Monday they were closed. Got some money out of machine. Had it on the kitchen table. Every time I got a couple of bills out they smelled like perfume. On the news Tuesday they said a employee tested positive. L guess they sprayed the place. I bleeched the bills ,not taking a chance. 4200 positive tests in NY state.This is real .


----------



## colchar

While listening to the radio when out earlier, I heard about a petition started by Canadian doctors asking that the Canadian government put forth a war like effort to help frontline medical staff because they are facing critical shortages. Here is the blurb about it from the change.org Twitter page "_More than 60 doctors have joined forces to launch a petition calling on the government to mount “a war-like effort” to assist frontline healthcare workers fighting COVID-19, sounding the alarm on already critical shortages of supplies and equipment._"

In part, that petition states that "_Our front line health care workers are already running out of *personal protective equipment (PPE) such as N95 masks, surgical masks, gloves, and gowns. We also need access to hoods, face shields, goggles*, and other protective equipment. There is a critical shortage of *COVID-19 test kits, ventilators, hand sanitizer, and medications* that might treat COVID-19 patients._" (emphasis and bolded text theirs, not mine)

Here is a link to their actual petition:

Sign the Petition


I heard one of the doctors who started that petition on the radio, and she said that things are so bad that they are considering opening up the stockpiles left over from the SARS epidemic and using that equipment despite the fact that it is all well past its best before date and will therefore offer little protection (latex gloves, masks, etc. have best before dates - who knew?). Apparently doctors and nurses who they have spoken to are all prepared to sign waivers saying that they understand that they are using out of date equipment, but are willing to do so because any little bit of protection is better than no protection at all.

So more than 60 Canadian doctors have started a petition to highlight our desperate need for items like gloves, masks, etc. and things are so critical that they are considering using out of date equipment still stockpiled from the SARS epidemic seventeen years ago despite the fact that it will offer little protection to our frontline healthcare workers. But I'm a xenophobic racist for saying that we shouldn't heave sent 16 tonnes of that very equipment to China just a couple of weeks ago?!?! Seriously??????????????


----------



## blueshores_guy

Saw this tidbit from coverage of JT's morning sermon on Thursday March 19:

_....Trudeau also said supports will be on the way for retirees who have seen a dramatic drop in their savings due to "massive" market disruptions.

"We will be taking measures to ease the impact of that," he said.

"We know that our seniors have worked hard all their lives to be able to retire in comfort and there is a lot of anxiety there. That's why we will be there for our seniors as well."_

Very interesting.........I'm definitely in that category, and this degradation of my investment portfolio is extremely, extremely worrisome. To the point where I no longer sleep very well. 
I have no idea how they will ever derive a calculation to help us out, but I don't expect it to happen soon, and I don't expect it to be very substantial.
Probably will max out at about $500, and they'll make that taxable too.
Fingers crossed.


----------



## Lola

How the Corona Virus was started.


----------



## colchar

blueshores_guy said:


> I have no idea how they will ever derive a calculation to help us out, but I don't expect it to happen soon, and I don't expect it to be very substantial.
> Probably will max out at about $500, and they'll make that taxable too.
> Fingers crossed.



I guess they could pick a start date (the day the markets started to crumble, the day the WHO declared it a pandemic, etc.) and look at the value everyone owned then and give something for what they ended up losing.


----------



## knight_yyz

keto said:


> View attachment 300442
> 
> 
> My daughter says some of her friends sound just like this. No idea why anyone would put up with that. It’s called discipline.


I wonder how many people are home schooling their kids right now. Or even doing stuff like teach them to sew, or change a flat tire, or do a load of laundry, cook a meal.

As fr the government package of 82B. I won't see a dime of that. And I'll bet anyone who claims the 2 weeks will have to pay back 30 percent of it next year come income tax time. 
I would have preferred to have seen some abolishment of the GST for 6 months.


----------



## tdotrob

laristotle said:


> COVID-19 won’t interact well with THC if its anything like the flu, data company says
> 
> _THC testing on mice with influenza revealed an increase in viral loads and a decrease in the ability of the immune system to fight off the virus _


Eek


----------



## tdotrob

Lincoln said:


> word on the street is Costco in the wonderland we all know & love as Sherwood park is only letting 10 people into the store at a time.
> 
> Guess I won't be going to Costco anytime soon. B#(*


My wife refuses to let anyone in or out of our house. She did our groceries by click and collect service, I don’t really agree but she’s is a workhorse cleaning and cooking and taking care of everyone so I just don’t interfere and smile and help where she wants...


----------



## Lincoln

tdotrob said:


> My wife refuses to let anyone in or out of our house. She did our groceries by click and collect service, I don’t really agree but she’s is a workhorse cleaning and cooking and taking care of everyone so I just don’t interfere and smile and help where she wants...


Tell her I haven't been out of the country for over 2 years.......and I haven't flown on an airplane for over a year. In case she's concerned.


----------



## Doug Gifford

Picking my son up in Ottawa in the next few days. He's a student living in a shared house with four or five other people. I told him he had to come home soon or he'd have to wait it out there. When I pick him up, he'll bring everything out from the house and I'll load it into the van -- I won't go into the house. Then we'll drive straight home without stopping. Seems like a scene from a movie.


----------



## colchar

The people three doors down are having a party. Not sure what part of social isolation they don't understand.


----------



## colchar

Doug Gifford said:


> Picking my son up in Ottawa in the next few days. He's a student living in a shared house with four or five other people. I told him he had to come home soon or he'd have to wait it out there. When I pick him up, he'll bring everything out from the house and I'll load it into the van -- I won't go into the house. Then we'll drive straight home without stopping. *Seems like a scene from a movie.*



28 Days Later - Wikipedia


----------



## tdotrob

colchar said:


> The people three doors down are having a party. Not sure what part of social isolation they don't understand.


They made sure they are all 15 feet apart and checked temps at the door, they swear.


----------



## tdotrob

Lincoln said:


> Tell her I haven't been out of the country for over 2 years.......and I haven't flown on an airplane for over a year. In case she's concerned.


Hehe, well I did end up having to be out to work for a couple hours, 1 trip to grocery store and same trip stopped by L and M Highlands to do get strings and picks and one last trip to grab a line 6 pedal thingy off someone for super cheap just to have something different to play with while “working” from home

Funny we only have 9
Rolls of TP left from our regular purchase earlier in the month but I have enough strings of all different sizes and brands to last two years. I decided I wanted to try everything while I have the time.


----------



## colchar

tdotrob said:


> Funny we only have 9
> Rolls of TP left from our regular purchase earlier in the month but I have enough strings of all different sizes and brands to last two years. I decided I wanted to try everything while I have the time.



Well at a time like this one must have priorities!


----------



## Sneaky

laristotle said:


> COVID-19 won’t interact well with THC if its anything like the flu, data company says
> 
> _THC testing on mice with influenza revealed an increase in viral loads and a decrease in the ability of the immune system to fight off the virus _


Dude, you’re harshing my mellow.


----------



## Wardo

colchar said:


> ... Not sure what part of social isolation they don't understand.


That’ll be true for a lot of people - I just need to sneak out for an hour and get a few things; runnin low on pop & chips and need to check my lottery loser tickets - it’ll be ok.


----------



## colchar

Wardo said:


> That’ll be true for a lot of people - I just need to sneak out for an hour and get a few things; runnin low on pop & chips and need to check my lottery loser tickets - it’ll be ok.



Going to the grocery store or pharmacy I can understand, but pretty much anything else defeats the purpose.

Then again, I decided to take the dog out to a conservation area today to give him a good long walk. The park is closed for the winter, and we're supposed to be self isolating, and there were still more people there (14 cars plus a staff member on a tractor) than I saw at the main city park last night (3).


----------



## 10409

110 new cases between 7 hour updates on the list. mostly all in the bc and Alberta.

I’m not thrilled that bing/Microsoft is hosting the live tracking thing. Their eta’s are not the best.

“The world will end in 18 days. No, 14 seconds. Wait, 18492 months....nope back to 18 days”


----------



## Lola

Wow EI is just over loaded. I woke up at 4:30 so at least I could get on the internet to complete my application. I tried so many times yesterday and was getting extremely frustrated. Got kicked off the site 6 times. I wonder how many ppl were applying at the same time I was. Got ‘er done though. I haven’t collected since my last maternity leave 27 yrs ago. Things haven’t changed much. Glad to get this monkey off my back. Sleep now.


----------



## Lola

blueshores_guy said:


> Saw this tidbit from coverage of JT's morning sermon on Thursday March 19:
> 
> _....Trudeau also said supports will be on the way for retirees who have seen a dramatic drop in their savings due to "massive" market disruptions.
> 
> "We will be taking measures to ease the impact of that," he said.
> 
> "We know that our seniors have worked hard all their lives to be able to retire in comfort and there is a lot of anxiety there. That's why we will be there for our seniors as well."_
> 
> Very interesting.........I'm definitely in that category, and this degradation of my investment portfolio is extremely, extremely worrisome. To the point where I no longer sleep very well.
> I have no idea how they will ever derive a calculation to help us out, but I don't expect it to happen soon, and I don't expect it to be very substantial.
> Probably will max out at about $500, and they'll make that taxable too.
> Fingers crossed.


Exactly what we’re feeling. We lost 50k over the last couple of days. We are freaking out just a bit. Our gold stocks took a $50 hit per share in one day. This is too scary. If this keeps up we will have very little to retire on.


----------



## Lincoln

Lola said:


> Exactly what we’re feeling. We lost 50k over the last couple of days. We are freaking out just a bit. Our gold stocks took a $50 hit per share in one day. This is too scary. If this keeps up we will have very little to retire on.


it will come back.......in time. But who knows how long that will take. Things I thought would never be affected, are being affected by this thing.


----------



## Eric Reesor

Don't sweat it guys and gals we ain't at war with China. We are however at war with nature and we are getting a shot across the bow not a salvo quite yet. Logic dictates calm and rational action. Our only weapons against this is cooperation with the environment that we all must share on this planet. We will find solutions to this pandemic with the help of that which is already available and is found within the biosphere: And most importantly the open sharing of knowledge and the resources necessary for medical treatments for all species. We cannot shut ourselves off from the biosphere of this planet, we either learn to assist nature in new ways to maintain the biosphere or we risk unleashing even more dangerous diseases and far worse the fear of these conditions.

10 dollar a roll toilet paper on Craigslist and unrestrained greed caused by fear of economic loss ain't gonna help deal with this pandemic!!!!!


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Lola said:


> Exactly what we’re feeling. We lost 50k over the last couple of days. We are freaking out just a bit. Our gold stocks took a $50 hit per share in one day. This is too scary. If this keeps up we will have very little to retire on.





Lincoln said:


> it will come back.......in time. But who knows how long that will take. Things I thought would never be affected, are being affected by this thing.


Some folks are believing the same thing. They are snatching up the bargains right now. The rich get richer.

World’s richest spending US$1B on 'bargains of a lifetime' - BNN Bloomberg


----------



## Milkman

This is what we are trying to delay/mitigate folks. Anybody who watches this and still blows it off, well you know.


----------



## guitarman2

tdotrob said:


> Hehe, well I did end up having to be out to work for a couple hours, 1 trip to grocery store and same trip stopped by L and M Highlands to do get strings and picks and one last trip to grab a line 6 pedal thingy off someone for super cheap just to have something different to play with while “working” from home
> 
> Funny we only have 9
> Rolls of TP left from our regular purchase earlier in the month but I have enough strings of all different sizes and brands to last two years. I decided I wanted to try everything while I have the time.


Yeah funny how I always make sure I've got 30, 40 sets of strings here just in case. If this crisis gets worse and we have a bunch of musicians panic buying strings I'll be fine.


----------



## 1SweetRide

davetcan said:


> Ahh, increase in gun and ammunition sales, LOL. That worries me less, at the moment, than the picture of the crowded Florida beaches. What are those people thinking ?


I’m thinking we’re a few mutations away from zombiefication.


----------



## knight_yyz

Over 500000 people have applied for EI this week alone... Nobody is going to see any money for a while. 

I saw an article agreeing with me about the Government just issuing 2000 dollar cheques to anyone who filed an income tax for last year. They have all our addresses and bank account numbers. Would be a hell of a lot easier than all the red tape and hoops people will have to jump through to get any kind of assistance

Tons of people are going to banks to ask for mortgage deferrals and most of the banks are clued out. Again, you have to jump through hoops to get a deferral. No guidelines or rules have been laid out. It's one big farce.


----------



## tomee2

Lola said:


> Exactly what we’re feeling. We lost 50k over the last couple of days. We are freaking out just a bit. Our gold stocks took a $50 hit per share in one day. This is too scary. If this keeps up we will have very little to retire on.


Us too, but it's only a loss if you sell it all and stuff it under a mattress. Right now is the time to move things around into stocks that will rebound quickly. I'm not sure an index fund will rebound fast but some sectors and individual companies will.


----------



## Judas68fr

knight_yyz said:


> Over 500000 people have applied for EI this week alone... Nobody is going to see any money for a while.
> 
> I saw an article agreeing with me about the Government just issuing 2000 dollar cheques to anyone who filed an income tax for last year. They have all our addresses and bank account numbers. Would be a hell of a lot easier than all the red tape and hoops people will have to jump through to get any kind of assistance
> 
> Tons of people are going to banks to ask for mortgage deferrals and most of the banks are clued out. Again, you have to jump through hoops to get a deferral. No guidelines or rules have been laid out. It's one big farce.


I personally could do with a smaller cheque, and I'd be happy to see the balance go to people less fortunate than our household. So maybe using income, giving more to those with lower income and decreasing the help with increasing income? Or targeting low income people and small businesses in priority?


----------



## laristotle

1SweetRide said:


> I’m thinking we’re a few mutations away from zombiefication.






__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2604228749845310


----------



## Guitar101

I had a close call this morning. Picking up a prescription at Walmart, I noticed a run on toilet paper so I grabbed some. Only one per person so that was good. My next stop was at Canadian Tire. This is where I almost made a big mistake. With that package of toilet paper in the back seat, I almost forgot to lock the door of my truck.


----------



## Milkman

Guitar101 said:


> I had a close call this morning. Picking up a prescription at Walmart, I noticed a run on toilet paper so I grabbed some. Only one per person so that was good. My next stop was at Canadian Tire. This is where I almost made a big mistake. With that package of toilet paper in the back seat, I almost forgot to lock the door of my truck.


You're lucky you didn't get car jacked. Keep that stuff covered up.


----------



## Lola

Can you believe this?


----------



## Milkman

Lola said:


> Can you believe this?


Ever seen Niagara Falls, NY on Back Friday?

Yes, sadly I can believe it.


----------



## allthumbs56

Judas68fr said:


> I personally could do with a smaller cheque, and I'd be happy to see the balance go to people less fortunate than our household. So maybe using income, giving more to those with lower income and decreasing the help with increasing income? Or targeting low income people and small businesses in priority?


Or some "danger pay" for those medical and research folk who are running toward the virus rather than away from it.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Great. Now the power had gone out. How am I supposed to electrocute the zombies?


----------



## Budda

All those "beginner jobs" need benefits and paid leave right now.

To our surprise, our CEO just added significant PTO to regular ft and pt employees. Had we not been bought out two years ago, things would probably look *very* different. Lots of respect for his decision, as everyone is feeling this. I know I will be utilizing this.


----------



## knight_yyz

My boss just told me we have no more orders. I have a few to fulfill but after that I'll be applying for EI unless something changes


----------



## jimsz

Not sure what to make of this, any Pat Condell fans here?


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> COVID-19 won’t interact well with THC if its anything like the flu, data company says
> 
> _THC testing on mice with influenza revealed an increase in viral loads and a decrease in the ability of the immune system to fight off the virus _


Cannabis stores warn of delivery delays, no same-day shipping and store closure


----------



## Electraglide

Lola said:


> Exactly what we’re feeling. We lost 50k over the last couple of days. We are freaking out just a bit. Our gold stocks took a $50 hit per share in one day. This is too scary. If this keeps up we will have very little to retire on.


And people ask why I have gold you can touch instead of stocks. It's dropped a whopping $1.86......oh dear. Nice thing about it is there will always be people willing to buy gold.....at the market price.


----------



## Distortion

knight_yyz said:


> My boss just told me we have no more orders. I have a few to fulfill but after that I'll be applying for EI unless something changes


might be a good thing. Now you don't risk getting possible covid from the welder that should have been sent home._ I would have talked to the boss on that one._


----------



## Milkman

jimsz said:


> Not sure what to make of this, any Pat Condell fans here?



tell us how you _really _feel Pat.


----------



## greco

Jozef Gouwy, 93, looks at a robot made by ZoraBots for elderly people at home, so they can virtually communicate with their loved ones, amid the ban on visits to combat the spread of coronavirus in Ostend, Belgium.


----------



## Electraglide

tdotrob said:


> Hehe, well I did end up having to be out to work for a couple hours, 1 trip to grocery store and same trip stopped by L and M Highlands to do get strings and picks and one last trip to grab a line 6 pedal thingy off someone for super cheap just to have something different to play with while “working” from home
> 
> Funny we only have 9
> Rolls of TP left from our regular purchase earlier in the month but I have enough strings of all different sizes and brands to last two years. I decided I wanted to try everything while I have the time.


That's how it starts. A quick trip here and a quick trip there and soon the trips will get longer and longer and the dog will take longer and longer to have a crap.


----------



## Electraglide

1SweetRide said:


> I’m thinking we’re a few mutations away from zombiefication.


KNO3 + C7H4O + S could take care of that problem.


----------



## Lola

greco said:


> Jozef Gouwy, 93, looks at a robot made by ZoraBots for elderly people at home, so they can virtually communicate with their loved ones, amid the ban on visits to combat the spread of coronavirus in Ostend, Belgium.


check this out virtually reality glasses for seniors. such a cool idea.


----------



## Electraglide

Lola said:


> check this out virtually reality glasses for seniors. such a cool idea.


Just a question. How do the disinfect those things and not damage them? Steam? From the way people are talking about this virus you'd have to take the headsets apart. Better to have a large screen tv.


----------



## Milkman

Lola said:


> check this out virtually reality glasses for seniors. such a cool idea.


This will sound weird, but they have those for cows too.








I'm just saying.


----------



## Budda

Also how the hell is l&m open?

I kinda need strings, but they are set up for online and shipping. Cmon.


----------



## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> This will sound weird, but they have those for cows too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just saying.


Watching this maybe?


----------



## knight_yyz

Electraglide said:


> Cannabis stores warn of delivery delays, no same-day shipping and store closure



My place delivers from Toronto to Hamilton by car everyday. They are open for now. I'm good til next week but I may place an order in case they do stop selling


----------



## allthumbs56

Electraglide said:


> Watching this maybe?


So THAT'S a cowpoke!


----------



## Tone Chaser

L&M will be open regular hours, by staff that wants to work. No one is forced to work.

Do you really need anything?

I only went today to return an item, so I don’t get stuck with it. I made calls first to find out how they were doing business during the current situation.


----------



## tdotrob

Electraglide said:


> That's how it starts. A quick trip here and a quick trip there and soon the trips will get longer and longer and the dog will take longer and longer to have a crap.


Ya I hear you. No one has come in and out of our house since.

But if you need 100 guitars restrung and set up I’m your guy!


----------



## Chito

This is what we don't want to happen here. If anyone thinks this is all hype, here's proof. For the last couple of days Italy had close to 500 deaths each day, today they are at 627 and the day is not even over yet. Not trying to be an alarmist but this is for real. 
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/worl...DIks3tjrUR6zVd9ZVaLs5p5RlI#Echobox=1584628267
Italian military fleet carries coffins of coronavirus victims out of overwhelmed town


----------



## knight_yyz

Distortion said:


> might be a good thing. Now you don't risk getting possible covid from the welder that should have been sent home._ I would have talked to the boss on that one._


Unfortunately if the welder goes home nothing goes out the door. I can weld but I'm not a huge fan. Anything more than 2 hours and it triggers a migraine. 
I've been avoiding the welder like he has the plague. Lol. I say hi in the morning and bye at night. He takes breaks and lunch in his car so he can smoke like a chimney.


----------



## Wardo

Chito said:


> Not trying to be an alarmist but this is for real.


Yeah, I'm not taking it that seriously kinda thinking that it won't happen to me, god looks after drunks and lunatics etc. but maybe I should reconsider my hubris because excessive pride and defiance of providence is the path to nemesis


----------



## Electraglide

allthumbs56 said:


> So THAT'S a cowpoke!


Actually, those are both cows so I'm not too sure how much poking is going on. Go to a rodeo and see why they have 4 bulls and 12 steers in a corral.


----------



## Electraglide

knight_yyz said:


> My place delivers from Toronto to Hamilton by car everyday. They are open for now. I'm good til next week but I may place an order in case they do stop selling


Funny, I know guys who deliver and have been doing it for years. Quantity no object and anytime day or night as long as you have the money......cash please.


----------



## Electraglide

knight_yyz said:


> Unfortunately if the welder goes home nothing goes out the door. I can weld but I'm not a huge fan. Anything more than 2 hours and it triggers a migraine.
> I've been avoiding the welder like he has the plague. Lol. I say hi in the morning and bye at night. He takes breaks and lunch in his car so he can smoke like a chimney.


Unless the way commercial/industrial welders dress your chances are pretty slim except at morning and night.


----------



## colchar

Chito said:


> This is what we don't want to happen here. If anyone thinks this is all hype, here's proof. For the last couple of days Italy had close to 500 deaths each day, today they are at 627 and the day is not even over yet. Not trying to be an alarmist but this is for real.
> Italian military fleet carries coffins of coronavirus victims out of overwhelmed town



The biggest problem in Italy is that it has the second oldest population in the world after Japan, so the virus is hitting its population worse than it would others.

But yeah, it is for real.


----------



## knight_yyz

Electraglide said:


> Funny, I know guys who deliver and have been doing it for years. Quantity no object and anytime day or night as long as you have the money......cash please.


You can pay cash or EMT plus taxes. Cash is king. The place I have been using has been around well before the laws changed.


----------



## Electraglide

Went to the local grocery to pick up a few things. Business as usual except for signs about keeping your distance. Shelves well stocked and being stocked as usual, a fair amount of everything including TP....limit 2 per, they take cash.....everything as usual. Even the Cougers were there.


----------



## colchar

Wardo said:


> Yeah, I'm not taking it that seriously kinda thinking that it won't happen to me, god looks after drunks and lunatics etc. but maybe I should reconsider my hubris because excessive pride and defiance of providence is the path to nemesis



Even I have started taking it seriously. 

I am home now (except for walking the dog around the block) and am only going out again when I run out of something important (ie. milk). Even then I will shop at one store, and one store only, before heading straight back home.

Luckily for me, I sill have an income right now. I have no idea what will happen with the summer term, but if they offer it entirely online then I'll be fine as I am trained to teach online and already teach online courses. If not, then I will collect EI for the summer. Sure it won't be my full salary, but I probably won't be out spending money either.

Unfortunately, many others are not so lucky. And for many, EI will run out during the summer when things might not yet be back to normal.


----------



## knight_yyz

Italy is more family oriented than us. So the young ones have no problem hanging out with grandma and grampa. Over here teenagers don't even want to be seen within a mile of their parents. So the young were infecting the old at an alarming rate. Add bad polluted air into the mix and you have a recipe for disaster. 


On a positive note Trudeau finally shut down Roxham road. No one else is getting through there. So they say. I think the Quebecers who live close by finally raised a big enough stink to make the govt take notice.


----------



## knight_yyz

Electraglide said:


> Unless the way commercial/industrial welders dress your chances are pretty slim except at morning and night.


He looks like a blue version of the Pillsbury Dough boy. I've seen him wear the full face respirator style helmet but the last few days he's been using a regular helmet. The boss told him he does have to wear a cotton mask when he comes up front to the office.


----------



## colchar

Coronavirus spread is slowing - Says Israeli Nobel Laureate


----------



## Electraglide

Seems like in Italy almost half those who die have had 3 or more illnesses and the average age is 79.5. 
99% of Those Who Died From Virus Had Other Illness, Italy Says


----------



## Chito

Electraglide said:


> Seems like in Italy almost half those who die have had 3 or more illnesses and the average age is 79.5.
> 99% of Those Who Died From Virus Had Other Illness, Italy Says


It says 'More than 75% had high blood pressure, about 35% had diabetes and a third suffered from heart disease.' But many of us have those ailments one way or another. Also, they are at the point that they have to make a choice, save a 20 year old or save an 80 year old. And that's the issue. It's just too much for the health system to handle. Italy and Spain have probably the best health care systems in Europe but the cases have become too much to handle in such a short period of time.I read an article saying we can have enough ventolators and ICUs but we can't instantly create doctors and nurses.


----------



## laristotle

Looking to temporarily lay off staff during the coronavirus crisis? Wait, that’s illegal

_Howard Levitt: Employees who are laid off are entitled to full wrongful dismissal damages_


----------



## Electraglide

Chito said:


> It says 'More than 75% had high blood pressure, about 35% had diabetes and a third suffered from heart disease.' But many of us have those ailments one way or another. Also, they are at the point that they have to make a choice, save a 20 year old or save an 80 year old. And that's the issue. It's just too much for the health system to handle. Italy and Spain have probably the best health care systems in Europe but the cases have become too much to handle in such a short period of time.I read an article saying we can have enough ventolators and ICUs but we can't instantly create doctors and nurses.


Being Italy the 20 year old will probably be shuffled out the door, and survive. 
2020 coronavirus pandemic in Italy - Wikipedia
Seems the darker colored parts are where most of the virus illness/deaths are. Seems it's dropping off/under control in China.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Chito said:


> It says 'More than 75% had high blood pressure, about 35% had diabetes and a third suffered from heart disease.' But many of us have those ailments one way or another. Also, they are at the point that they have to make a choice, save a 20 year old or save an 80 year old. And that's the issue. It's just too much for the health system to handle. Italy and Spain have probably the best health care systems in Europe but the cases have become too much to handle in such a short period of time.I read an article saying we can have enough ventolators and ICUs but we can't instantly create doctors and nurses.


The Niagara Region reports they can handle 54 cases (extreme) of Covid-19 at any given time. After that you will be directed to the death rooms


----------



## Electraglide

GuitarsCanada said:


> The Niagara Region reports they can handle 54 cases (extreme) of Covid-19 at any given time. After that you will be directed to the death rooms


Are the sales of barrels up? From what the internet says, you still have 50 to go.


----------



## Electraglide

Seems the most cases in Ab. are between 35 to 44 years old.
covid-19-alberta-statistics.utf8


----------



## Distortion

GuitarsCanada said:


> The Niagara Region reports they can handle 54 cases (extreme) of Covid-19 at any given time. After that you will be directed to the death rooms


no problem it is called Orange air transfer,


----------



## 10409

The economy is gonna be hit way harder on men. For every .79 cents of income a woman loses her male coworkers lose a dollar.


----------



## Wardo

Gonna see a lot bankruptcy in small business.


----------



## Sneaky

mike_oxbig said:


> The economy is gonna be hit way harder on men. For every .79 cents of income a woman loses her male coworkers lose a dollar.


No. Just stop.


----------



## knight_yyz

I went to the bank today to ask a few things about my mortgage. I also inquired about deferring. After all the stuff I've been reading I wanted to see what was up. They told me it would be no problem to defer. But I was wrong in my previous post about how it works. IIRC, if you defer for the full 6 months, you have to pay the interest for those 6 months when your term ends. So at renewal time you owe 6 months of interest on the principle which is tacked onto the next term.


----------



## tdotrob

Last weekend - COVID-19: Physicians at medical curling bonspiel asked to self-isolate after one of Saskatchewan's top docs tests positive | Edmonton Journal


----------



## keto

I collect accounts for a living. In Alberta. Whee! Gonna be a long year. Given how time flies, is that a bonus or does the added stress counterbalance that?

I am very thankful to be employed, lest my attempt at levity be misconstrued.


----------



## Stephenlouis

This is exactly what I expected: Royal will be the worst.

Frustrated Canadians looking for mortgage deferrals from big banks facing delays, denials


----------



## Stephenlouis

mike_oxbig said:


> The economy is gonna be hit way harder on men. For every .79 cents of income a woman loses her male coworkers lose a dollar.


But if you are over 50 and male we are twice as likely to die, so it all works out in the wash.


----------



## spacebard

LegoCoro


----------



## keto

Stephenlouis said:


> This is exactly what I expected: Royal will be the worst.
> 
> Frustrated Canadians looking for mortgage deferrals from big banks facing delays, denials


Oh, for god's sakes, give them a couple days to get a policy in place and distributed. Remember, they like just about all other employers, are doing things on the fly without much direction. By Monday I bet there's a LOT more clarity in MANY areas of life as we know it right now. They'll play ball, it will get easier, I'd bet a lot of money.


----------



## keto

Thinking about it further, there is no reason to NOT extend, the banks are going to tack X# months of mortgage interest into the note, that's worth something to them, both the $$ and the duration I would bet.

Also further to the article, they were 'trying to get ahead of the problem'. The bank - I am in finance and make these decisions, and I wouldn't - won't like or approve of this. Keep the extension in your back pocket until you need it. You'll likely just blow the dough then come back to me when you really need it, and then maybe I can maybe I can't. It's just not good practice.


----------



## Chito

Warning to those who continue to ignore social distancing, fines of up to $1,000 and $500,000 for businesses. We are close to a lockdown.

Not practising social distancing? You could be fined up to $1K and businesses up to $500K | CBC News


----------



## Electraglide

Stephenlouis said:


> But if you are over 50 and male we are twice as likely to die, so it all works out in the wash.


From what they say for Alberta, male and between 35 and 44. Not too sure about BC but I'd stay away from the retirement home in Lynn Valley. Where you are it's probably ok to take a hike up the West Coast Trail. Even if you just go to Clo-oose. Take your camera with you, some whales should be running.


----------



## Electraglide

keto said:


> Oh, for god's sakes, give them a couple days to get a policy in place and distributed. Remember, they like just about all other employers, are doing things on the fly without much direction. By Monday I bet there's a LOT more clarity in MANY areas of life as we know it right now. They'll play ball, it will get easier, I'd bet a lot of money.


Before this all started you could defer one payment a year at the Royal. Shouldn't take too long for them to figure 6 months out.


----------



## Electraglide

Chito said:


> Warning to those who continue to ignore social distancing, fines of up to $1,000 and $500,000 for businesses. We are close to a lockdown.
> 
> Not practising social distancing? You could be fined up to $1K and businesses up to $500K | CBC News


Are they going to be out there with tape measures seeing if you're what, 2 meters away from the next guy? What if you're on a bus or sitting 3 in the back of a car? If I did the 2 meter rule in the elevator to the Colon Cancer Clinic last Monday it would have been just me in the elevator.


----------



## tdotrob

keto said:


> Thinking about it further, there is no reason to NOT extend, the banks are going to tack X# months of mortgage interest into the note, that's worth something to them, both the $$ and the duration I would bet.
> 
> Also further to the article, they were 'trying to get ahead of the problem'. The bank - I am in finance and make these decisions, and I wouldn't - won't like or approve of this. Keep the extension in your back pocket until you need it. You'll likely just blow the dough then come back to me when you really need it, and then maybe I can maybe I can't. It's just not good practice.


Ya it ain’t gonna be a charity “we are all in this together kumbaya” bank deferrals come w a disclaimer stating that payments can be deferred, however regular interest will still be accrued, only now it will be compounded weekly for the duration of the deferral so they will make sure they get theirs either way.


----------



## Wardo

If anyone you don’t know in Toronto gets within 2 meters of you it’s a good idea to shoot them as a precaution beer virus or not...lol


----------



## 12 stringer

So how long will this social distancing last anyway? My wife keeps wanting to get in the house. When should I let her in?

sorry... couldn’t resist. We all could use some comic relief no matter how lame.


----------



## Lola




----------



## Lola




----------



## Lola




----------



## Lola




----------



## 12 stringer

This situation brings into clear relief what my father and his family went thru with the Spanish flu some 100 years ago (1918-1920 ~). It killed around 55,000 Canadians and 50-100 million world-wide (hard to tell, exactly). Anyway, my father, his father and three of his siblings made it out ok. One older brother, 2 of his sisters and his mother all died from it (his mom and sisters all died the very same week!). This Covid-19 is not a "novel" event per se, really. It happens every century, pretty much, and will keep happening, no doubt. We are, thankfully, much better prepared in many ways than my father's generation but we can all very easily be taken out, too, lest we heed the expert's advice very seriously.


----------



## mhammer

Listened to an excellent podcast from Australian radio this morning, on the history of "the plague", and its multiple re-occurrences over the centuries. Provides some excellent perspectives on what's going on now, including both how governments and populaces react.

The Black Death - the plague that never went away

My office mate in Edmonton,during my M.Sc. was originally from Milan and had already done his Ph.D. in philosophy of science, before switching over to psychology. His dissertation was on the black plague. He was convinced, and managed to convince me, that it was one of the singular most influential periods in human history, having had an impact on just about every aspect of daily human life, human affairs, international relations, medicine, prejudice, religion, kinship systems, existential beliefs, scientific thinking, and so much more.

Conceivably, this current situation will have profound effects on many aspects of human affairs as well.


----------



## greco

12 stringer said:


> So how long will this social distancing last anyway? My wife keeps wanting to get in the house. When should I let her in?
> 
> sorry... couldn’t resist. We all could use some comic relief no matter how lame.


Thanks for my morning laugh! Much appreciated.


----------



## Stephenlouis

keto said:


> Oh, for god's sakes, give them a couple days to get a policy in place and distributed. Remember, they like just about all other employers, are doing things on the fly without much direction. By Monday I bet there's a LOT more clarity in MANY areas of life as we know it right now. They'll play ball, it will get easier, I'd bet a lot of money.


Did you read the article? Monday? I'll take that bet


----------



## mhammer

Normally, with a population 1/10 that of the USA, by sheer probability, things should happen here at 1/10 the rate in the states. At present, we have 12 covid-19 deaths here (obviously subject to change), and the US has around 240.

Statistically, there is always sampling error to consider, before drawing inferences. In this case, time plays a role in sampling. So fatalities are subject to change, day-to-day, with increments and stabilities varying, depending on _when_ you measure. On a Monday, group A has "more" than group B, but by Wednesday, it's the reverse. 

Inferential statistical testing examines observed data, compares it against sampling error dictated by probability theory, and either infers that nothing causal is going on because observed between-group differences might be predicted by chance and sampling error, OR that there is some causal factor differentiating groups, because observed differences are WELL beyond what might result from simple chance and sampling error. And since US/Canada comparisons are essentially an "observational study" rather than true experiment, one always has to factor in what was different between groups A and B _prior_ to the period of study. Population density is one of those differences. Age demographics might be another.

I suppose I'll have to reserve strong inferences until all of this has blown over, but for the time being it really looks like Canadians' ability to simply go to the doctor, the walk-in clinic, or ER, without worrying about whether they have a health plan, whether their plan will cover it, or whether they can afford to pay for it out of pocket, is a strong contender for why the current number of fatalities in each country is so different, proportionately, compared to what might be expected by sheer population size alone.


----------



## knight_yyz

keto said:


> Thinking about it further, there is no reason to NOT extend, the banks are going to tack X# months of mortgage interest into the note, that's worth something to them, both the $$ and the duration I would bet.
> 
> Also further to the article, they were 'trying to get ahead of the problem'. The bank - I am in finance and make these decisions, and I wouldn't - won't like or approve of this. Keep the extension in your back pocket until you need it. You'll likely just blow the dough then come back to me when you really need it, and then maybe I can maybe I can't. It's just not good practice.


According to the person I spoke with at TD bank on Friday...Assuming your mortgage was bought on January 1 2020 and you defer your mortgage for 6 months. In 2025 when it is time for renewal (assuming a 5 year term) you owe interest on the principle for those 6 months. They just tack that interest onto your next term. if you switch banks, you will have to pay the bank from your pocket. So your principle does not change for 6 months. If your property tax is paid by the bank they will still withdraw that amount on the appropraiate days as normal


----------



## greco

A man plays guitar as part of a flashmob organized to raise morale during Italy's coronavirus crisis in Turin, Italy, March 13, 2020. REUTERS/Massimo Pinca (Massimo Pinca/Reuters)


----------



## keto

mhammer said:


> Normally, with a population 1/10 that of the USA, by sheer probability, things should happen here at 1/10 the rate in the states. At present, we have 12 covid-19 deaths here (obviously subject to change), and the US has around 240.
> 
> Statistically, there is always sampling error to consider, before drawing inferences. In this case, time plays a role in sampling. So fatalities are subject to change, day-to-day, with increments and stabilities varying, depending on _when_ you measure. On a Monday, group A has "more" than group B, but by Wednesday, it's the reverse.
> 
> Inferential statistical testing examines observed data, compares it against sampling error dictated by probability theory, and either infers that nothing causal is going on because observed between-group differences might be predicted by chance and sampling error, OR that there is some causal factor differentiating groups, because observed differences are WELL beyond what might result from simple chance and sampling error. And since US/Canada comparisons are essentially an "observational study" rather than true experiment, one always has to factor in what was different between groups A and B _prior_ to the period of study. Population density is one of those differences. Age demographics might be another.
> 
> I suppose I'll have to reserve strong inferences until all of this has blown over, but for the time being it really looks like Canadians' ability to simply go to the doctor, the walk-in clinic, or ER, without worrying about whether they have a health plan, whether their plan will cover it, or whether they can afford to pay for it out of pocket, is a strong contender for why the current number of fatalities in each country is so different, proportionately, compared to what might be expected by sheer population size alone.


No, Mark. We're not testing due to lack of capacity, so we're not reporting.


----------



## sambonee

I wonder if they’ll find a cure at 

Link 
Roxham Rd. 

not knowing doesn’t mean it’s not be happening. .


----------



## laristotle

greco said:


> a flashmob


----------



## mhammer

keto said:


> No, Mark. We're not testing due to lack of capacity, so we're not reporting.


An ethologist friend who studied domestic homicide noted that, while the real interest of herself and her research partner was aggression within close relationships (between romantic partners as well as adults and children), aggression tends to be under-reported, while all deaths ARE reported, so deaths was what they studied, because she knew the data were accurate, reliable, and available.

I would agree with you that number of known cases of infection IS very much a function of the prevalence of testing. But every death is reported and requires confirmation or death certificate by a medical examiner of some sort. So yes, mortality _rate_, relative to _incidence_ of the virus, is something that few of us, myself included, should speculate about. Who knows, we may well have _more_ deaths, relative to the number of infected, than the U.S. does; something one couldn't tell unless every citizen in both nations was tested. But number of deaths per capita is a whole other thing. With very few exceptions, cause of death is generally always documented. Notwithstanding the sources of statistical error I noted earlier, if the number of United States deaths from covid-19 is roughly 20x the number of deaths in Canada, rather than 10x, _something's_ up. What that something is remains to be seen, however.


----------



## allthumbs56

mhammer said:


> I would agree with you that number of known cases of infection IS very much a function of the prevalence of testing. *But every death is reported and requires confirmation or death certificate by a medical examiner of some sort*. So yes, mortality _rate_, relative to _incidence_ of the virus, is something that few of us, myself included, should speculate about.


"About time I finally got tested".

Said the dead guy to the coroner.


----------



## Lola

Update: Canada 

cases: 1044

deaths: 13

recovered: 11


----------



## keto

mhammer said:


> An ethologist friend who studied domestic homicide noted that, while the real interest of herself and her research partner was aggression within close relationships (between romantic partners as well as adults and children), aggression tends to be under-reported, while all deaths ARE reported, so deaths was what they studied, because she knew the data were accurate, reliable, and available.
> 
> I would agree with you that number of known cases of infection IS very much a function of the prevalence of testing. But every death is reported and requires confirmation or death certificate by a medical examiner of some sort. So yes, mortality _rate_, relative to _incidence_ of the virus, is something that few of us, myself included, should speculate about. Who knows, we may well have _more_ deaths, relative to the number of infected, than the U.S. does; something one couldn't tell unless every citizen in both nations was tested. But number of deaths per capita is a whole other thing. With very few exceptions, cause of death is generally always documented. Notwithstanding the sources of statistical error I noted earlier, if the number of United States deaths from covid-19 is roughly 20x the number of deaths in Canada, rather than 10x, _something's_ up. What that something is remains to be seen, however.



Yeah, I got excited and got ahead of myself. Won't be the last time. LOL Whaddya do, I'll try and be smarter GF^%@


----------



## colchar

12 stringer said:


> This situation brings into clear relief what my father and his family went thru with the Spanish flu some 100 years ago (1918-1920 ~). It killed around 55,000 Canadians and 50-100 million world-wide (hard to tell, exactly). Anyway, my father, his father and three of his siblings made it out ok. One older brother, 2 of his sisters and his mother all died from it (his mom and sisters all died the very same week!). This Covid-19 is not a "novel" event per se, really. It happens every century, pretty much, and will keep happening, no doubt. We are, thankfully, much better prepared in many ways than my father's generation but we can all very easily be taken out, too, lest we heed the expert's advice very seriously.



In this sense 'novel' means 'new'. So a coronavirus they haven't seen before.


----------



## Electraglide

These signs were printed at my great-grandfather's shop in 1921 0r '22, just after the Spanish flu passed thru Oak Lake Man.. 









There's pictures of my mom and two aunts looking out a window with both signs posted on the house.


----------



## tomee2

keto said:


> No, Mark. We're not testing due to lack of capacity, so we're not reporting.


Last number I saw Canada had tested as many people as the US,about 40,000. I think we reacted faster, provincially and federally as well and in the short term may have a different outcome.


----------



## keto

tomee2 said:


> Last number I saw Canada had tested as many people as the US,about 40,000. I think we reacted faster, provincially and federally as well.


I know testing is going well here in AB. I'm much more thinking of the tens (hundreds?) of thousands who came home from (wherever), packed in tin cans and busy airports, in the past 2 weeks. I know and you know and they know that (after a certain point in time that was kinda too late) they were SUPPOSED to self isolate, but I bet we get a pretty good bloom over and above expected cases/deaths in the next 2-3 weeks.


----------



## sulphur

Coronavirus cases doubling faster in the U.S. than any other country, report says


----------



## Electraglide

tomee2 said:


> Last number I saw Canada had tested as many people as the US,about 40,000. I think we reacted faster, provincially and federally as well and in the short term may have a different outcome.


From what I saw, on the 20th BC had tested about 18,000 people and Ab. about 17,000 people.
"As Alberta health officials have been performing more COVID-19 tests than anywhere else in North America, experts are in conversation about whether the testing criteria needs to be modified.
“It likely will change,” said Dr. Mark Joffe, Alberta Health Services medical director for northern Alberta and infection prevention physician. Joffe spoke with Global News on Friday.
That same day, the premier said Alberta had tested more than 17,000 individuals for COVID-19 so far – at a rate of about 2,000 per day."
*"British Columbia*

*348 confirmed cases as of 3PM March 20, 2020. *
Six recovered in BC

Nine deaths in BC

Cases by region:
95 in Fraser Health
19 in Interior Health
30 in Island Health

4 in Northern Health
200 in Vancouver Coastal Health


17,912 tests complete as of March 20, 2020. "
That's around 35,000 right there. Not too sure about the rest of the country but one would hope that places like Ont. and Quebec were testing at the same rate.


----------



## Private Hudson

Here is a good site for following along at home:

Coronavirus Update (Live): 301,513 Cases and 12,954 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer


----------



## 12 stringer

I’m holding a quarantine party tonight.

No one is invited.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

keto said:


> I know testing is going well here in AB. I'm much more thinking of the tens (hundreds?) of thousands who came home from (wherever), packed in tin cans and busy airports, in the past 2 weeks. I know and you know and they know that (after a certain point in time that was kinda too late) they were SUPPOSED to self isolate, but I bet we get a pretty good bloom over and above expected cases/deaths in the next 2-3 weeks.


Just had a friend of mine that crossed the border this morning, heading back from Florida. No questions asked, nothing mentioned about quarantine or anything else. Have a nice day....


----------



## Lincoln

this has probably been said before, but we know China is not really good at sharing information. I wonder how long they sat on this, knowing they had a problem, before telling the world about it? 6 months? a year?


----------



## vadsy

GuitarsCanada said:


> Just had a friend of mine that crossed the border this morning, heading back from Florida. No questions asked, nothing mentioned about quarantine or anything else. Have a nice day....


hopefully he had a great spring break and self-quarantines himself. truly wish people would just say at home instead of vacationing in times like these


----------



## keto

Lincoln said:


> this has probably been said before, but we know China is not really good at sharing information. I wonder how long they sat on this, knowing they had a problem, before telling the world about it? 6 months? a year?


I don't have a link, as I read it 2-3 days ago and that seems like forever now. But the writer said that China knew something like beginning Nov, but the world wasn't advised until Dec 31. It seemed a well put together logical and properly sourced article, but I am easily fooled.


----------



## 10409

mike_oxbig said:


> Post this so I can bump it in a week


In the last 4 days:

577 new cases in Canada
15,764 new cases in the USA

We’re doing it right it looks like. “Never liked our neighbours much anyways” seems to have turned into a survival mechanism


----------



## mhammer

Private Hudson said:


> Here is a good site for following along at home:
> 
> Coronavirus Update (Live): 301,513 Cases and 12,954 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer


Many thanks for this link. I'm sure many of the stats are a little behind, but not by much. I find it interesting when one looks at population density, population size, and number of deaths. As you look through the column indicating #deaths, consider the following stats:

US - 35.7 people per sq km - 327M people
UK - 275 people per sq km - 66.4M
Canada - 4.1/sq km - 37.6M
Italy - 205/sq km - 60.5M
Switzerland - 215.5/sq km - 8.6M
France - 122/sq km - 67M
Germany - 237.4/sq km - 82.8M
Iran - 50.2/sq km - 81.2M
Mexico - 64.9/sq km - 129.2M
South Korea - 529.7/sq km - 51.5M
India - 455/sq km - 1,339M
China - 148.4/sq km - 1,386M

Some countries are doing far worse than others (e.g., UK, compared to USA, USA compared to Canada, Italy compared to pretty much everyone else). Some are still question marks (5 deaths in India? with that population and population density?).


----------



## Private Hudson

Lincoln said:


> this has probably been said before, but we know China is not really good at sharing information. I wonder how long they sat on this, knowing they had a problem, before telling the world about it? 6 months? a year?


I heard it started in December. Trump was briefed in January. Everyone knew the danger. That's the nature of international intelligence. It's a political problem. If we would have locked down in January and saved lives, the general public would have backlashed ... because we are morons. Instead, the government "waits for spring" and blames it on the Chinese. With compound growth, and clear examples (china, italy and South Korea), we are still not locking down until everyone knows someone who has it.


----------



## knight_yyz

keto said:


> I don't have a link, as I read it 2-3 days ago and that seems like forever now. But the writer said that China knew something like beginning Nov, but the world wasn't advised until Dec 31. It seemed a well put together logical and properly sourced article, but I am easily fooled.


They definitely sat on it. They jailed wannabe squealers/whistle blowers etc etc but no one outside of China knows for sure how long. I was thinking the same thing about Russia. There does not seem to be a lot of cases on any maps I have seen. Communists worried about saving face before saving the people...


----------



## knight_yyz

Private Hudson said:


> I heard it started in December. Trump was briefed in January. Everyone knew the danger. That's the nature of international intelligence. It's a political problem. If we would have locked down in January and saved lives, the general public would have backlashed ... because we are morons. Instead, the government "waits for spring" and blames it on the Chinese. With compound growth, and clear examples (china, italy and South Korea), we are still not locking down until everyone knows someone who has it.


The lockdowns made things worse. South Korea would be a ton better off if they had caught patient 31 before she infected something like 80000 people. Social distancing is all they did. They did NOT use lockdowns. Just volunteered social distancing along with drive in test centers etc... Korea was on the ball and will probably recover before anyone else does. If patient 31 did not exist South Korea would probably be out of the woods already.


----------



## Private Hudson

knight_yyz said:


> The lockdowns made things worse. South Korea would be a ton better off if they had caught patient 31 before she infected something like 80000 people. Social distancing is all they did. They did NOT use lockdowns. Just volunteered social distancing along with drive in test centers etc... Korea was on the ball and will probably recover before anyone else does. If patient 31 did not exist South Korea would probably be out of the woods already.


I would tend to agree only if people could be trusted to self-quarantine and do the social distance. They cant. Up until last week, this was "just the flu". I have friends in florida taking hug group shots on the golf course joking that they might have a hard time finding a room on the way back. There is no surprise what is going to happen here. 

As far as drive through testing. Thank god. It empowers folks, as well. 

Stay well.


----------



## sulphur

Quebec City police arrest COVID-19 patient for defying quarantine | CBC News


----------



## 10409

Lincoln said:


> this has probably been said before, but we know China is not really good at sharing information. I wonder how long they sat on this, knowing they had a problem, before telling the world about it? 6 months? a year?


Zero outbreaks in North Korea their supreme leader must be doing an awesome job


----------



## Wardo

Private Hudson said:


> I heard it started in December.


Talking to a doctor at a w/in clinic a few weeks ago - he is wondering if its already been here for awhile based on the symptoms that he's been seeing since January.


----------



## laristotle

Wardo said:


> he is wondering if its already been here for awhile


China did fess up that it started late November.
I was sick as hell x-mas time. Laid up with the flu that I got from a friend.
We were commenting recently if this is what we had.


----------



## Distortion

mike_oxbig said:


> In the last 4 days:
> 
> 577 new cases in Canada
> 15,764 new cases in the USA
> We’re doing it right it looks like. “Never liked our neighbours much anyways” seems to have turned into a survival mechanism


man you are all class. Clown


----------



## tdotrob

mike_oxbig said:


> Zero outbreaks in North Korea their supreme leader must be doing an awesome job


Can’t resist


----------



## sulphur

I was laid up with a flu and fever around the beginning of the month, missed a set of work.

Worked ome set simce, then they inacted protocols in light of recent events.
I was sent home my first shift back last set on Monday night with a lingering cough.

I saw the symptoms of the virus and had many of them.


----------



## Wardo

laristotle said:


> China did fess up that it started late November.
> I was sick as hell x-mas time. Laid up with the flu that I got from a friend.
> We were commenting recently if this is what we had.


I had one whore of flu back in January that wouldn’t go away for about 3 weeks maybe 4.


----------



## 10409

Distortion said:


> man you are all class. Clown


Not saying you’re wrong but I don’t think it’s relevant in statistics


----------



## Distortion

mike_oxbig said:


> Not saying you’re wrong but I don’t think it’s relevant in statistics


Its that anti american statement in these times that soured me. That is big brother and i think they are great people.does anyone else ?


----------



## 10409

Distortion said:


> Its that anti american statement in these times that soured me. That is big brother and i think they are great people.does anyone else ?


sorry if statistics are anti American. They usually are.


----------



## 10409

Clearly not the actual sign but a damn good idea


----------



## Distortion

mike_oxbig said:


> In the last 4 days:
> 
> 577 new cases in Canada
> 15,764 new cases in the USA
> 
> We’re doing it right it looks like. “Never liked our neighbours much anyways” seems to have turned into a survival mechanism


read it again and quit trying to twist things. your quote is "Never liked our neighbours much anyways" NICE.


----------



## vadsy

I for one prefer the American country stars over ours. I’m looking at you, Paul Brandt and George canyon


----------



## guitarman2

Distortion said:


> Its that anti american statement in these times that soured me. That is big brother and i think they are great people.does anyone else ?


I do.


----------



## Robert1950




----------



## 10409

Distortion said:


> read it again and quit trying to twist things. your quote is "Never liked our neighbours much anyways" NICE.


-Not sure I can twist my own words as “twisting” implies taking something that was said and suggesting it mean something other than originally intended. I would go so far as to say “Word Twisting” can not be done by the author.

-I actually don’t particularly like Americans as a collective since you keep asking but I don’t want 3 pages of this thread to low key disappear so let’s not bother with that one

-Our neighbours meaning our actual neighbours. We don’t like our actual neighbours, was the joke, implying that’s why we’re not spreading it as fast. Im sure your neighbours like you though, you seem charming, in a douchebag that invited himself into a conversation so he could isolate one post and jump to conclusions and start calling strangers childish names over the internet kind of way. As far as that breed of human goes you’re probably top shelf. 

-go wash your hands


----------



## guitarman2

mike_oxbig said:


> In the last 4 days:
> 
> *577 new cases in Canada
> 15,764 new cases in the USA*
> 
> We’re doing it right it looks like. “Never liked our neighbours much anyways” seems to have turned into a survival mechanism


Population of Canada 37.59 Million
Population of the US 327.2 Million

Kind of puts things in perspective. You think we're doing it right because we have less cases at the moment when we are a fraction the size of the US?


----------



## 10409

guitarman2 said:


> Population of Canada 37.59 Million
> Population of the US 327.2 Million
> 
> Kind of puts things in perspective. You think we're doing it right because we have less cases at the moment when we are a fraction the size of the US?


Well, yes. To scale I think we’re still doing better.


----------



## guitarman2

mike_oxbig said:


> Well, yes. To scale I think we’re still doing better.


Well your first mistake is thinking this is some kind of competition. US, Canadian, Chinese or Europe we're all in this together.


----------



## jdto

guitarman2 said:


> Population of Canada 37.59 Million
> Population of the US 327.2 Million
> 
> Kind of puts things in perspective. You think we're doing it right because we have less cases at the moment when we are a fraction the size of the US?


327/38=8.6
15,765/577=27.3

So yeah, we are doing better per capita by quite a bit. By those numbers, they are looking at one case per ~20k people, whereas we are at 1 per ~60k.


----------



## jdto

guitarman2 said:


> Well your first mistake is thinking this is some kind of competition. US, Canadian, Chinese or Europe we're all in this together.


It’s not a competition, but comparing the response and the attitude toward the government guidelines may help to adjust how we deal with it.


----------



## 10409

guitarman2 said:


> Well your first mistake is thinking this is some kind of competition. US, Canadian, Chinese or Europe we're all in this together.


In a kumbaya sense, sure, and I agree. In a literal sense, world unity was 2 weeks ago. Now the borders are closed and it’s up to us to self cleanse. From what I’ve seen we’re doing an awesome job at isolating or at least socially distancing. Haven’t seen a packed ice hut on the news with a bunch of drunk red greens saying they’re gonna fish corona or not. That’s where my lack of pity for the usa comes from. They were told, they understood, they ignored. Now they’re 4 days behind Italy.


----------



## 10409

I shouldn’t say lack of pity. It’s horrible no matter who it’s happening to or why. I feel like it’s a bad horror movie where the actress just has to go for a walk in the woods at night. They’re gonna name you dumb blonde #2 on the credit reel.


----------



## guitarman2

mike_oxbig said:


> In a kumbaya sense, sure, and I agree. In a literal sense, world unity was 2 weeks ago. Now the borders are closed and it’s up to us to self cleanse. From what I’ve seen we’re doing an awesome job at isolating or at least socially distancing. Haven’t seen a packed ice hut on the news with a bunch of drunk red greens saying they’re gonna fish corona or not. That’s where my lack of pity for the usa comes from. They were told, they understood, they ignored. Now they’re 4 days behind Italy.


You think the US people are the only ones that ignored. 
This is just one story. People left for Peru as late as March 16th and now are crying for help from the Canadian government to get them back. I wonder how many of our college kids are down in Florida for spring break. The numbers may look like we're doing better than the US but time will tell. Personally I just think we're a little behind them in where we're at with this.
My office is only 5 minutes from home so I come home for lunch every day and I see all kinds of public school age kids up and down the streets. Theres no school so it looks like they're all enjoying the out doors. It doesn't look like self isolation to me.

Time is running out for hundreds of Canadians stuck in Peru, desperate to come home | CBC News


----------



## boyscout

mhammer said:


> Many thanks for this link. I'm sure many of the stats are a little behind, but not by much. I find it interesting when one looks at population density, population size, and number of deaths. As you look through the column indicating #deaths, consider the following stats:
> 
> US - 35.7 people per sq km - 327M people
> UK - 275 people per sq km - 66.4M
> Canada - 4.1/sq km - 37.6M
> Italy - 205/sq km - 60.5M
> Switzerland - 215.5/sq km - 8.6M
> France - 122/sq km - 67M
> Germany - 237.4/sq km - 82.8M
> Iran - 50.2/sq km - 81.2M
> Mexico - 64.9/sq km - 129.2M
> South Korea - 529.7/sq km - 51.5M
> India - 455/sq km - 1,339M
> China - 148.4/sq km - 1,386M
> 
> Some countries are doing far worse than others (e.g., UK, compared to USA, USA compared to Canada, Italy compared to pretty much everyone else). Some are still question marks (5 deaths in India? with that population and population density?).


Pocket pool again. As your own comment makes clear, population density doesn't predict anything so far. Canada's outstandingly-low density in your list doesn't predict anything either since so much of our population is in high-density urban areas containing gateways (airports especially, but also other entry points) that have been and still are seriously under-screening and inadequately protecting against the entry of carriers of Covid-19.


----------



## Electraglide

Get back indoors and stay indoors.


----------



## jb welder

mike_oxbig said:


> We’re doing it right it looks like. “Never liked our neighbours much anyways” seems to have turned into a survival mechanism


Was pretty clear to me that you meant actual neighbours, not national ones, Mike.
Agree that our tendency toward more social distancing by nature may be helping us out this time. I hope so, but as others have mentioned, our numbers may be lagging a bit so time will tell.


----------



## Wardo

mike_oxbig said:


> .. I actually don’t particularly like Americans as a collective ...


The Canadian military is top notch but you all don't give them any money to do the job. If you didn't live beside us you'd be learnin to speak Russian or Chinese right now. If you're ever going to Charleston S.C. I'll hook you up with some of my family - they'll show you a time .. lol


----------



## 10409

Wardo said:


> The Canadian military is top notch but you all don't give them any money to do the job. If you didn't live beside us you'd be learnin to speak Russian or Chinese right now. If you're ever going to Charleston S.C. I'll hook you up with some of my family - they'll show you a time .. lol


My little sister married a lad from Georgia, lives down there now. It’s always a good time visiting. I grew up on the west coast, had friends in Seattle. It was always a good time visiting. I’m not sure if we allllll got together if it would be such a good time is all I’m saying, hence the “collective” remark. I think to put it bluntly the country is too diverse for its own good. Split it in 2 and let one side have their guns and the other side have their 52 bathrooms. But now I’m on a stoned ramble so i’ll Stop


----------



## Electraglide

Wardo said:


> The Canadian military is top notch but you all don't give them any money to do the job. If you didn't live beside us you'd be learnin to speak Russian or Chinese right now. If you're ever going to Charleston S.C. I'll hook you up with some of my family - they'll show you a time .. lol


Excuse me for laughing. How's your Russian by the way?


----------



## Wardo

mike_oxbig said:


> .. Split it in 2 and let one side have their guns and the other side have their 52 bathrooms. But now I’m on a stoned ramble so i’ll Stop


Well, opt for the side with the guns my friend cause 52 shitters not gonna save yer ass ...lol


----------



## 10409

Wardo said:


> Well, opt for the side with the guns my friend cause 52 shitters not gonna save yer ass ...lol


Hopefully separate outhouses, would be horrible not knowing who splashed who


----------



## Doug Gifford

mike_oxbig said:


> Hopefully separate outhouses, would be horrible not knowing who splashed who


The camp I worked at had six-holers. Deep, though, so splashing was a feature, not a bug.


----------



## RBlakeney

Wardo said:


> Well, opt for the side with the guns my friend cause 52 shitters not gonna save yer ass ...lol


It explains why everyone needs so much tp though.


----------



## Wardo

If I live through this beer virus thing I'm buying one of these fuckers:


----------



## 10409

Free Wilson


----------



## BlueRocker

Wardo said:


> If I live through this beer virus thing I'm buying one of these fuckers:


Is that an official NHL resonator?


----------



## torndownunit

Crap few days. I got nailed with 3 day migraine due to some crazy weather shifts here. A respitory issue I had all winter seems to be back because I wasn't outside at all during the migraine issues, and I don't think my body likes being stuck inside with the heat running. Anyway, rant over. Hoping for some warm weather (usually helps the migraines) to get out a bit. Hope everyone is well.


----------



## Lola

torndownunit said:


> Crap few days. I got nailed with 3 day migraine due to some crazy weather shifts here. A respitory issue I had all winter seems to be back because I wasn't outside at all during the migraine issues, and I don't think my body likes being stuck inside with the heat running. Anyway, rant over. Hoping for some warm weather (usually helps the migraines) to get out a bit. Hope everyone is well.


Have you tried any of the new anti-CGRP meds?


----------



## torndownunit

Lola said:


> Have you tried any of the new anti-CGRP meds?


I only read about them very recently. The problem is I can't get into my Dr to have a consultation about them until this virus stuff passes, but I am definitely interested. Another appointment related to med follow ups was already cancelled. Those are about the only drug you could ask me about that I haven't tried yet. 

I guess there's been some improved versions of Triptans released too that are supposed to have less side effects. They will likely be too pricey for me though being new. Maxalt works pretty well for me (maybe 75% success) but the side effects suck.


----------



## 1SweetRide

torndownunit said:


> Crap few days. I got nailed with 3 day migraine due to some crazy weather shifts here. A respitory issue I had all winter seems to be back because I wasn't outside at all during the migraine issues, and I don't think my body likes being stuck inside with the heat running. Anyway, rant over. Hoping for some warm weather (usually helps the migraines) to get out a bit. Hope everyone is well.


Get checked for pneumonia. I had respiratory problems for a while too. Turned out that’s what I had. Got it from a bandmate who has young kids.


----------



## torndownunit

1SweetRide said:


> Get checked for pneumonia. I had respiratory problems for a while too. Turned out that’s what I had. Got it from a bandmate who has young kids.


I had pneumonia about 6 years ago, which has lead to me having some type of weird respitory issue most winters since. I have to be cautious in the best of times never mind when there's a crazy repository virus going around. I caught some crazy bug before Christmas, and my chest still doesn't feel right even now. I did get checked though before this situation occured and it wasn't pneumonia.


----------



## knight_yyz

Private Hudson said:


> I would tend to agree only if people could be trusted to self-quarantine and do the social distance. They cant. Up until last week, this was "just the flu". I have friends in florida taking hug group shots on the golf course joking that they might have a hard time finding a room on the way back. There is no surprise what is going to happen here.
> 
> As far as drive through testing. Thank god. It empowers folks, as well.
> 
> Stay well.


You're assuming a North American mentality. South Korea is a totally different culture and attitude. they were told to self quarantine and they did. The only people who didn't listen all belong to a questionable religious organization of which I have no knowledge. They were all infected by patient 31....Directly . Those 2 or 3k idiots then went about their business and infected 80k+ .


----------



## greco

Uplifting article...
Kitchener tech company supporting healthcare workers during COVID-19 - KitchenerToday.com


----------



## cdntac

torndownunit said:


> I caught some crazy bug before Christmas, and my chest still doesn't feel right even now. I did get checked though before this situation occured and it wasn't pneumonia.


Same with me. I caught it about a week before Xmas and I had weeks of complete exhaustion, and a fever for days.. An X-ray came up negative for pneumonia as well. 

I’d say I feel 95% good tho it still feels like my chest is very slightly tight but without coughing or other cold-like symptoms. 

If this was happening now we’d just assume we have the virus.


----------



## torndownunit

cdntac said:


> Same with me. I caught it about a week before Xmas and I had weeks of complete exhaustion, and a fever for days.. An X-ray came up negative for pneumonia as well.
> 
> I’d say I feel 95% good tho it still feels like my chest is very slightly tight but without coughing or other cold-like symptoms.
> 
> If this was happening now we’d just assume we have the virus.


I still have the odd small coughing fit when I bend over to pick things up. But ya, if I had the coughing fits I had during the thick of the bug, people would be running from me. I was literally coughing until I puked. I was up so many nights, which made recovery even tougher.


----------



## Milkman

My sister in law now has the virus and so my brother is almost sure to have it. They're down in Connecticut. My son and his girlfriend are also infected and are in isolation in Vancouver.

Should be an interesting week. There are still Canadians all over the world trying to get home (to infect the rest of us I guess). Talk about leaving things until the last minute.

I get that it has been tough for probably a week or more to get flights. I would have had my ass back here in February. Actually, I had enough sense not to go farther than Columbus since Christmas.

And yet people still think this is no big deal.

I hope we all survive, but there's a distinct possibility some of the members of this site will die from this virus.


----------



## Budda




----------



## keto

Milkman said:


> My sister in law now has the virus and so my brother is almost sure to have it. They're down in Connecticut. My son and his girlfriend are also infected and are in isolation in Vancouver.
> 
> Should be an interesting week. There are still Canadians all over the world trying to get home (to infect the rest of us I guess). Talk about leaving things until the last minute.
> 
> I get that it has been tough for probably a week or more to get flights. I would have had my ass back here in February. Actually, I had enough sense not to go farther than Columbus since Christmas.
> 
> And yet people still think this is no big deal.
> 
> I hope we all survive, but there's a distinct possibility some of the members of this site will die from this virus.


I hope not. Really, given the numbers, you're quite an outlier to know even 1 person infected. Odds are very high that for most of us, you are as close a connection we will have to this. We won't know anyone who has it or anyone who knows anyone who has it.


----------



## mturk

keto said:


> I hope not. Really, given the numbers, you're quite an outlier to know even 1 person infected. Odds are very high that for most of us, you are as close a connection we will have to this. We won't know anyone who has it or anyone who knows anyone who has it.


I don’t know about that. Top virologists say that eventually 30 to 70 percent will be infected before it runs its course. Makes sense to me.


----------



## torndownunit

keto said:


> I hope not. Really, given the numbers, you're quite an outlier to know even 1 person infected. Odds are very high that for most of us, you are as close a connection we will have to this. We won't know anyone who has it or anyone who knows anyone who has it.


They just started the testing clinic in here and have has one confirmed case. It's not really that big of a town, and while I don't know the person as an acquaintance or friend, people I know know him. But, it looks like he returned from vacation with it. It wasn't picked up in the immediate community. There was a case confirmed about 15 minutes from me, and they are asking anyone who visited a particular super busy gas station to go in for testing. That gas station is closed now.

I assume most towns are like my town though, and either just got testing or still don't even have it yet. I think they will find a lot more people carrying it very quickly. The numbers we see right now don't reflect what is actually out there at all because so far there has barely been any testing. Look how much numbers have been going up just in the last few days.

As @mturk said the estimates on potential infection are very high from what I have seen. The fatality estimates or the estimates of people it will make really sick are obviously a smaller % of that.


----------



## tdotrob

torndownunit said:


> They just started the testing clinic in here and have has one confirmed case. It's not really that big of a town, and while I don't know the person as an acquaintance or friend, people I know know him. But, it looks like he returned from vacation with it. It wasn't picked up in the immediate community. There was a case confirmed about 15 minutes from me, and they are asking anyone who visited a particular super busy gas station to go in for testing. That gas station is closed now.
> 
> I assume most towns are like my town though, and either just got testing or still don't even have it yet. I think they will find a lot more people carrying it very quickly. The numbers we see right now don't reflect what is actually out there at all because so far there has barely been any testing. Look how much numbers have been going up just in the last few days.
> 
> As @mturk said the estimates on potential infection are very high from what I have seen. The fatality estimates or the estimates of people it will make really stick are obviously a smaller % of that.


30-70% a pretty hilarious estimate, not saying it’s wrong but it’s funny to think about when it concerns millions of people. Wish I could have that accuracy with my job!

But they do know 80% of the 30-70%(still funny) will only experience pretty mild symptoms and never get a test so I tend to agree w Keto, I still don’t know one single person who has CONFIRMED covid-19.


----------



## Milkman

keto said:


> I hope not. Really, given the numbers, you're quite an outlier to know even 1 person infected. Odds are very high that for most of us, you are as close a connection we will have to this. We won't know anyone who has it or anyone who knows anyone who has it.


Right, well as it could easily kill me I'm a little more concerned than that. We haven't seen the worst of this yet.


----------



## Milkman

tdotrob said:


> 30-70% a pretty hilarious estimate, not saying it’s wrong but it’s funny to think about when it concerns millions of people. Wish I could have that accuracy with my job!
> 
> But they do know 80% of the 30-70%(still funny) will only experience pretty mild symptoms and never get a test so I tend to agree w Keto, I still don’t know one single person who has CONFIRMED covid-19.



Stick around. You will.


----------



## tdotrob

Milkman said:


> Stick around. You will.


Well oddly enough I suspect I already do know quite a few people who have or had the virus, including a couple right in my own household, sadly we will never know. Pretty sure the only people getting tested moving forward are people sick enough to need the hospital, so that’s why I emphasized confirmed covid 19 cases


----------



## keto

Not directly related to above. Social distancing discussion. When does social distancing end? These graphs show where we’re heading and why

6 months, hey. Go shorter, and you just have a second wave, that puts you close to where you would have been if you did nothing.

There's an argument that for societal preservation, you just let it run its course. Economically at least.

Wish I knew if I could trust the numbers from China.  85K cases in a billion pop is NOTHING. Equivalent to Canada would be ~ 3200 cases (1/27th the population as a rough equivalent). On the other hand, Italy (60M pop/53,500 cases) as it stands today, Canadian (37M pop) equivalent roughly 35,500 cases. The deaths (China 3,200, Italy 4,825) are obviously sad, but almost insignificant. Canadian equivalent to Italian deaths (I recognize it's not over, but to date) under 3K.

So, is China going to have a second wave when they are fully back open for business, that could be potentially much larger?

All in all, it's not a civilization ending pandemic/virus. It's man that's the larger problem.


----------



## keto

Milkman said:


> Right, well as it could easily kill me I'm a little more concerned than that. We haven't seen the worst of this yet.


Believe me, as a life long smoker, I'm in the same boat. And I agree with you on the latter.


----------



## keto

This has political content, but my concern is the overall message, not what one side or the other is saying or doing. Imagine.

It's from CNBC, and he was quoted on CNN, for anyone who has to know that part.

*10:20 am: Illinois governor says states are competing for supplies — ‘It’s a Wild West out there’*
llinois Gov. JB Pritzker said the state only received a fraction of supplies requested from FEMA. The shortage of supplies continues to result in states and countries compete against each other for critical personal protective equipment in the open market.

“This should have been a coordinated effort by the federal government...It’s a Wild West out there...Indeed we’re overpaying for PPE because of that competition,” Pritzker said."

6 months of good supply chain, hey? My broken crystal ball says something else.


----------



## mturk

tdotrob said:


> 30-70% a pretty hilarious estimate, not saying it’s wrong but it’s funny to think about when it concerns millions of people. Wish I could have that accuracy with my job!
> 
> <snipped>


Well there are a lot of variables. I think the message they were trying to get across was that a large chunk of the population need to develop immunity to the virus which occurs only by your body fighting and overcoming the infection. 

I just hope they develop some cure or whatever so it doesn’t come to those predictions. Apparently there is already a test that gives a result within 45 minutes so that’s fantastic.


----------



## torndownunit

keto said:


> Not directly related to above. Social distancing discussion. When does social distancing end? These graphs show where we’re heading and why
> 
> 6 months, hey. Go shorter, and you just have a second wave, that puts you close to where you would have been if you did nothing.
> 
> There's an argument that for societal preservation, you just let it run its course. Economically at least.
> 
> Wish I knew if I could trust the numbers from China. 85K cases in a billion pop is NOTHING. Equivalent to Canada would be ~ 3200 cases (1/27th the population as a rough equivalent). On the other hand, Italy (60M pop/53,500 cases) as it stands today, Canadian (37M pop) equivalent roughly 35,500 cases. The deaths (China 3,200, Italy 4,825) are obviously sad, but almost insignificant. Canadian equivalent to Italian deaths (I recognize it's not over, but to date) under 3K.
> 
> So, is China going to have a second wave when they are fully back open for business, that could be potentially much larger?
> 
> All in all, it's not a civilization ending pandemic/virus. It's man that's the larger problem.


This is my perspective, and I am not a tinfoil hat guy. With measures as drastic as what are being taken, I strongly believe higher ups know more than they are letting us know. Interest rates aren't going to be lowered, gatherings of over 50 people aren't going to be banned, people aren't going to be told to isolate over something that is not really serious. They would never risk the potential for panic.

And the concern here is spread. It's correct a lot of people won't get seriously ill who get it. But this spreads like crazy. And the more people it spreads to, the more people with underlying conditions can get it. So if you get large enough numbers carrying it, 3% of a shitload of people is still a lot of fatalities.

People still seem to want to compare this to a scenario that hasn't existed yet in this era. Every expert says 'this isn't SARS, this isn't swine flu'.


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> I hope we all survive, but there's a distinct possibility some of the members of this site will die from this virus.



The guy from Milton who died was a guitar player and I have been wondering if he might have been a member here.


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> Right, well as it could easily kill me I'm a little more concerned than that. We haven't seen the worst of this yet.



As a pack-a-day smoker of 35 years (down to five or fewer a day!!!) who has recently been diagnosed with very mild asthma (family doctor says COPD but I think he was trying to scare me as specialist only said very mild asthma) it could easily kill me too. Even if I got lucky and only had mild symptoms, I have my elderly mother with early stage Alzheimer's living with me. She has other health issues (diabetes, etc.) so if I were to get this and pass it to her it would almost certainly be fatal.

I was rather cavalier about this at the beginning, but have smartened up recently.

On the news last night it was reported that an employee at a gas station & Timmies that I occasionally go to tested positive and everyone who had been there between March 9-20 had to contact health authorities. I had to sit down and figure out if I had been there during that time (I hadn't). That really hit home.


----------



## colchar

keto said:


> Wish I knew if I could trust the numbers from China.



You can't, not even close.


----------



## colchar

keto said:


> This has political content, but my concern is the overall message, not what one side or the other is saying or doing. Imagine.
> 
> It's from CNBC, and he was quoted on CNN, for anyone who has to know that part.
> 
> *10:20 am: Illinois governor says states are competing for supplies — ‘It’s a Wild West out there’*
> llinois Gov. JB Pritzker said the state only received a fraction of supplies requested from FEMA. The shortage of supplies continues to result in states and countries compete against each other for critical personal protective equipment in the open market.
> 
> “This should have been a coordinated effort by the federal government...It’s a Wild West out there...Indeed we’re overpaying for PPE because of that competition,” Pritzker said."



And as I said earlier, we gave away 16 tonnes of the stuff.


----------



## tomee2

tdotrob said:


> 30-70% a pretty hilarious estimate, not saying it’s wrong but it’s funny to think about when it concerns millions of people. Wish I could have that accuracy with my job!
> 
> But they do know 80% of the 30-70%(still funny) will only experience pretty mild symptoms and never get a test so I tend to agree w Keto, I still don’t know one single person who has CONFIRMED covid-19.


That's over the long run, like a year or more. Or even 2 years. That's what all viruses do, like the common cold. It seldom gets to 100% because some people get it then recover and act as shields to others that eventually don't get it. That's if the spread is slow enough so that it moves around and groups gain immunity while others still don't have it. With this covid19, the spread is fast and no one has built immunity, so a rapid spread to up to 70% or more of the population is not impossible.


----------



## tdotrob

tomee2 said:


> That's over the long run, like a year or more. Or even 2 years. That's what all viruses do, like the common cold. It seldom gets to 100% because some people get it then recover and act as shields to others that eventually don't get it. That's if the spread is slow enough so that it moves around and groups gain immunity while others still don't have it. With this covid19, the spread is fast and no one has built immunity, so a rapid spread to up to 70% or more of the population is not impossible.


Ya like I said in my comment, not saying it’s wrong, but it just shows how little anyone knows what’s really gonna happen.


----------



## tomee2

colchar said:


> And as I said earlier, we gave away 16 tonnes of the stuff.


Ya, dumb move. how many 3gram facemasks is that??


----------



## Dorian2

For those in Edmonton wondering about the homeless situation. The Edmonton Expo Center will be used for this right now. I thought I'd check it out as my wife and I were talking the other day about the homeless issue and wondering what the plans were for the Northlands Coliseum, which is basically an empty structure due to Rogers Center being opened. I'm thinking if the shit were to REALLY hit the fan, the Coliseum could possibly be used as an ad hoc response center if necessary.

Coronavirus: Kenney says Edmonton Expo Centre will be used for vulnerable population

Also of note, the Superstore my daughter works at part time has started to implement Plexiglass barriers for the till staff, which is good to hear.


----------



## tomee2

tdotrob said:


> Ya like I said in my comment, not saying it’s wrong, but it just shows how little anyone knows what’s really gonna happen.


Exactly. We can only guess what's going to happen based on what's going on in others countries.


----------



## High/Deaf

keto said:


> I know testing is going well here in AB. I'm much more thinking of the tens (hundreds?) of thousands who came home from (wherever), packed in tin cans and busy airports, in the past 2 weeks. I know and you know and they know that (after a certain point in time that was kinda too late) they were SUPPOSED to self isolate, but I bet we get a pretty good bloom over and above expected cases/deaths in the next 2-3 weeks.


You are right, we are only at the start of this exponential curve. We will know in two weeks how well these current measures work. And any modifications to those measures will take two more weeks to see results. As the head of the WHO says (and against a lot of prevailing logic), we need to act now, swiftly and authoritatively, and think things through down the road. Immediate responses are required, even if they seem a little severe right now.


I guess the silver lining to all this is the repopulation effort started last week and will 'bare fruit' in 9 months, possibly about the right timeframe.


----------



## High/Deaf

12 stringer said:


> I’m holding a quarantine party tonight.
> 
> No one is invited.


............and I'm crashing it.

Don't worry, I'll just knock on the door and then go and sit in my car on the street. We can exchange semaphores or something.


----------



## tdotrob

I’ve successfully avoided doing anything that involved wearing pants for a week. I’m proud of that.


----------



## keto

High/Deaf said:


> You are right, we are only at the start of this exponential curve. We will know in two weeks how well these current measures work. And any modifications to those measures will take two more weeks to see results. As the head of the WHO says (and against a lot of prevailing logic), we need to act now, swiftly and authoritatively, and think things through down the road. Immediate responses are required, even if they seem a little severe right now.
> 
> 
> I guess the silver lining to all this is the repopulation effort started last week and will 'bare fruit' in 9 months, possibly about the right timeframe.



Here's a fun one. 70ish docs from across the country gathered for their annual bonspiel, in Edmonton, last weekend. 11 of the 22 from SK are now positive, one douchebag had just come home from international but attended anyways. Keeping in mind (and some using it as an excuse, I think it was stupidity itself) that it was before the last 'isolation' crackdown, imagine how many restaurants and other services 70 out of towners had use for, and how many Edmontonians are gonna be in full bloom in the next couple weeks. And how many cases the 1 douchebag is going to end up being responsible for. I mean, they were stupid to go ahead with the event anyways, but thanks all the same.


----------



## keto

tdotrob said:


> I’ve successfully avoided doing anything that involved wearing pants for a week. I’m proud of that.


I knew there was a reason I didn't invite you over earlier this week.


----------



## tdotrob

keto said:


> I knew there was a reason I didn't invite you over earlier this week.


Haha I do have shorts on.


----------



## tdotrob

keto said:


> Here's a fun one. 70ish docs from across the country gathered for their annual bonspiel, in Edmonton, last weekend. 11 of the 22 from SK are now positive, one douchebag had just come home from international but attended anyways. Keeping in mind (and some using it as an excuse, I think it was stupidity itself) that it was before the last 'isolation' crackdown, imagine how many restaurants and other services 70 out of towners had use for, and how many Edmontonians are gonna be in full bloom in the next couple weeks. And how many cases the 1 douchebag is going to end up being responsible for. I mean, they were stupid to go ahead with the event anyways, but thanks all the same.


When they asked the health lady how many specific attended she stuttered a bit about not knowing the numbers and stammered she believed it was 50 or 60. I think it would be safe to assume it was quite a few more than they want to say. What a bunch of dumb shits. We and everyone we know knew enough by then to stay home!


----------



## High/Deaf

tdotrob said:


> Haha I do have shorts on.


But how's your TP supply? 'Skid marks' need not apply.


----------



## vadsy

keto said:


> Here's a fun one. 70ish docs from across the country gathered for their annual bonspiel, in Edmonton, last weekend. 11 of the 22 from SK are now positive, one douchebag had just come home from international but attended anyways. Keeping in mind (and some using it as an excuse, I think it was stupidity itself) that it was before the last 'isolation' crackdown, imagine how many restaurants and other services 70 out of towners had use for, and how many Edmontonians are gonna be in full bloom in the next couple weeks. And how many cases the 1 douchebag is going to end up being responsible for. I mean, they were stupid to go ahead with the event anyways, but thanks all the same.


our best and brightest pulling shit like this. like the spring breakers in Miami


----------



## tdotrob

Ill never get the TP thing as I am sure neither will most logical people.

We bought our normal restock of a 24 roll pack at the end of February when we did our normal grocery then. We have 3 boys ranging from 9-18 here.

We still have like 12 rolls at last count and haven’t even thought of getting more........ yet.


----------



## 10409

“Find a penny pick it up” but I guess that was dying anyways


----------



## colchar

tdotrob said:


> I’ve successfully avoided doing anything that involved wearing pants for a week. I’m proud of that.



Yeah but isn't that your normal routine?


----------



## High/Deaf

tdotrob said:


> Ill never get the TP thing as I am sure neither will most logical people.
> 
> We bought our normal restock of a 24 roll pack at the end of February when we did our normal grocery then. We have 3 boys ranging from 9-18 here.
> 
> We still have like 12 rolls at last count and haven’t even thought of getting more........ yet.


If you can hold out another week, the preppers should be done and many garages should be full. I expect stocks to remain on shelves for the whole day by then.

Hand sanitizer is a bigger issue for me. I've had it around all the time for the last 20 years, since my BMT. I use it more or less, depending on the situation. Needless to say, I've gone through quite a bit in the last month. I'm still good for a couple more weeks, but I don't know if that supply will be recovered by then. I would like to think so -------- but I'd also like to think that the majority of people aren't raving fucking lunatics. What do I know?


----------



## colchar

tdotrob said:


> Haha I do have shorts on.



Your gitch now qualifies as 'shorts'?


----------



## vadsy

colchar said:


> Your gitch now qualifies as 'shorts'?


you seem to have an awful lot of interest in what this man is wearing ...


----------



## High/Deaf

Here's a little PSA.

Rinse your empties well - beer, pop, whatever. It will probably be many months before recycling centers starting receiving our infected, used stuff so you gonna have 'em for a while. Start now to keep the fruit flies, et al, at bay. IMO.


----------



## tdotrob

High/Deaf said:


> If you can hold out another week, the preppers should be done and many garages should be full. I expect stocks to remain on shelves for the whole day by then.
> 
> Hand sanitizer is a bigger issue for me. I've had it around all the time for the last 20 years, since my BMT. I use it more or less, depending on the situation. Needless to say, I've gone through quite a bit in the last month. I'm still good for a couple more weeks, but I don't know if that supply will be recovered by then. I would like to think so -------- but I'd also like to think that the majority of people aren't raving fucking lunatics. What do I know?


My wife made a whole pile of sanitizer with aloe Vera and rubbing alchohol and I’m pretty sure if it wasn’t for her I’d be in an ICU right now with a dirty butt and tubes in my face..


----------



## Milkman

I haven't shaved since March 13.


----------



## torndownunit

Of interest, they just released info on a case in Wellington County where "This individual did not have a travel history or contact with a known case.". The one they found in my town, the person had been travelling.


----------



## tdotrob

vadsy said:


> you seem to have an awful lot of interest in what this man is wearing ...


 Well to be fair he isn’t exactly wrong.... flashback to 6 years ago


----------



## vadsy

Milkman said:


> I haven't shaved since March 13.


desperate times, hey? The amount of flak you gave the bearded, now you’re one of the unclean yourself. The mighty have fallen off their horse


----------



## vadsy

tdotrob said:


> Well to be fair he isn’t exactly wrong.... flashback to 6 years ago
> 
> View attachment 300830


That guy and colchar were matched on Grizzler. I’m sure it was just a fun night of dancing and drinks, didn’t go anywhere after that


----------



## tdotrob

torndownunit said:


> Of interest, they just released info on a case in Wellington County where "This individual did not have a travel history or contact with a known case.". The one they found in my town, the person had been travelling.


I worry for my parents in Port Elgin.


----------



## ZeroGravity

vadsy said:


> our best and brightest pulling shit like this. like the spring breakers in Miami


Am I wrong being to be pissed off about the clown on the news who left Mar 11 for Peru stating they'd take the risk since Lima had only 6 confirmed cases and figured they could get back before it got bad.

Then, big fucking surprise, Peru closes its borders and shuts down flights like pretty much everywhere and now he's on the news wanting the government:to come and get him.

For the record, Stephen Crosbie, you are a selfish douchenozzle.

I just read the CBC story after seeing it on TV, the guy's wife is a ER doctor FFS.


----------



## Gavz

ZeroGravity said:


> Am I wrong being to be pissed off about the clown on the news who left Mar 11 for Peru stating they'd take the risk since Lima had only 6 confirmed cases and figured they could get back before it got bad.
> 
> Then, big fucking surprise, Peru closes its borders and shuts down flights like pretty much everywhere and now he's on the news wanting the government:to come and get him.
> 
> For the record, Stephen Crosbie, you are a selfish douchenozzle


My sister is stuck in Peru. Given the situation, I didn't bother questioning her about her travels or timelines. Like many people with affected families, I'd like to see her safe be it there or here. No one knows how this will all turn out.


----------



## vadsy

bill these people. if they have to be rescued after an advisory has been issued then they should pay for the services used to get them back home


----------



## spacebard

ZeroGravity said:


> Am I wrong being to be pissed off about the clown on the news who left Mar 11 for Peru stating they'd take the risk since Lima had only 6 confirmed cases and figured they could get back before it got bad.
> 
> Then, big fucking surprise, Peru closes its borders and shuts down flights like pretty much everywhere and now he's on the news wanting the government:to come and get him.
> 
> For the record, Stephen Crosbie, you are a selfish douchenozzle.
> 
> I just read the CBC story after seeing it on TV, the guy's wife is a ER doctor FFS.



He can walk his way back to Canada...or swim.


----------



## ZeroGravity

spacebard said:


> He can walk his way back to Canada...or swim.


I'm even more pissed off and gobsmacked now that I know his wife (on the trip too) is an ER doctor. Stupid or arrogant or both and deserve zero assistance as far as I'm concerned


----------



## torndownunit

ZeroGravity said:


> I'm even more pissed off and gobsmacked now that I know his wife (on the trip too) is an ER doctor. Stupid or arrogant or both and deserve zero assistance as far as I'm concerned


I had a 'friend' who left for Cuba after the first travel advisory. Even at the point there was plenty of rumblings that borders were going to be shut down, and how serious the situation was in Italy already. I thought the guy was an idiot and I told him that. Not only was his behaviour stupid, he took his young kids with him as well. People's arrogance astounds me sometimes.


----------



## Guitar101

mturk said:


> I don’t know about that. Top virologists say that eventually 30 to 70 percent will be infected before it runs its course. Makes sense to me.


With that attitude, stay away from me.


----------



## mturk

ZeroGravity said:


> Am I wrong being to be pissed off about the clown on the news who left Mar 11 for Peru stating they'd take the risk since Lima had only 6 confirmed cases and figured they could get back before it got bad.
> 
> Then, big fucking surprise, Peru closes its borders and shuts down flights like pretty much everywhere and now he's on the news wanting the government:to come and get him.
> 
> For the record, Stephen Crosbie, you are a selfish douchenozzle.
> 
> I just read the CBC story after seeing it on TV, the guy's wife is a ER doctor FFS.


I agree. what a dick! I hope they leave him there.


----------



## mturk

Guitar101 said:


> With that attitude, stay away from me.


I have no attitude but will gladly stay away.


----------



## Guitar101

High/Deaf said:


> If you can hold out another week, the preppers should be done and many garages should be full. I expect stocks to remain on shelves for the whole day by then.
> 
> Hand sanitizer is a bigger issue for me. I've had it around all the time for the last 20 years, since my BMT. I use it more or less, depending on the situation. Needless to say, I've gone through quite a bit in the last month. I'm still good for a couple more weeks, but I don't know if that supply will be recovered by then. I would like to think so -------- but I'd also like to think that the majority of people aren't raving fucking lunatics. What do I know?


As much as I'd like to agree, human nature say's "if all these people are buying this, I'd better get some just in case".


----------



## torndownunit

Guitar101 said:


> As much as I'd like to agree, human nature say's "if all these people are buying this, I'd better get some just in case.


Yes, I don't believe it will slow down. The news in my area is only getting worse since testing started. 2 more cases in a day, and one wasn't traveling nor had any direct contact with someone infected. Nothing stirs up a smaller town more than something like this hitting home.


----------



## keto

Milkman said:


> I haven't shaved since March 13.


Too funny. I went the other way, decided since I am going to have to be out in public to at least some degree, last night I lopped off a beard to the point of clean shaven. Less surface area for gooey bits. I think it's either the 5th or 6th time in 40 years I didn't have at least a mustache. Wife keeps staring at me, doesn't know who's in the house with her.


----------



## torndownunit

keto said:


> Too funny. I went the other way, decided since I am going to have to be out in public to at least some degree, last night I lopped off a beard to the point of clean shaven. Less surface area for gooey bits. I think it's either the 5th or 6th time in 40 years I didn't have at least a mustache. Wife keeps staring at me, doesn't know who's in the house with her.


I've been thinking of doing the same thing. I have about 6 inches of beard right now.


----------



## Rick31797

knight_yyz said:


> I went to the bank today to ask a few things about my mortgage. I also inquired about deferring. After all the stuff I've been reading I wanted to see what was up. They told me it would be no problem to defer. But I was wrong in my previous post about how it works. IIRC, if you defer for the full 6 months, you have to pay the interest for those 6 months when your term ends. So at renewal time you owe 6 months of interest on the principle which is tacked onto the next term.



So if I am getting this right .. say a person has a mortgage payment of 2,000.00. , to make it easy , 1,000.00 goes to principle and 1,000.00 goes to interest.. At the end of your deferral , you would owe 6,000.00 + 2,000 = 8,000.00

In this example would this be accurate?


----------



## Gavz

I think back to 2008 when all the big corporations & banks got massive bailouts and so many people lost their jobs & homes. The people never got a fair shot back then and they will not get one now. A good percentage of the sub-prime mortgages, investment losses, etc. could have been alleviated by a donation to the people and the money would still go back to the companies. The current pandemic is also a major financial burden for everyone. I wish I had an answer for this.


----------



## Rick31797

There is a video on u-tube I found quite interesting...
Joe Rogan Experience #1439 - Michael Osterholm


----------



## tdotrob

Rick31797 said:


> So if I am getting this right .. say a person has a mortgage payment of 2,000.00. , to make it easy , 1,000.00 goes to principle and 1,000.00 goes to interest.. At the end of your deferral , you would owe 6,000.00 + 2,000 = 8,000.00
> 
> In this example would this be accurate?


My brother looked at this with his bank and told me the interest over the deferral period would be compounded weekly so my math says that would make a huge difference.

In his case, he has been making extra payment to the tune of $800 a month for last 5 years and the deferral would wipe out any savings in interest he would’ve saw at the end of the mortgage from his overpayments in three months. If that makes sense... he told the guy to get bent.


----------



## Electraglide

I got an e-mail from my bank this morning. I can defer one mortgage, loan and/or credit card payment......this year. Same as I've been able to do for years. Nothings changed. I'll pass.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

When they say "We're all in this together" the banks didn't think it included them. They will make money on this.


----------



## mhammer

What I'm curious to know about is whether any deferrals on mortgage payments that are provided by banks will be for _any_ mortgage, private or commercial, or perhaps only for mortgages on principle residences. There are an awful lot of landlords with one or two rental properties, who are depending on the rent from each property to pay the mortgage on it. Their own home may well be paid off, however. If the intent is to prevent a homelessness crisis, then I could see the amnesty only being granted to mortgage payments on where you live, and maybe only up to a certain amount. But if part of that grand plan is to guarantee continued occupancy to those who are forced out of work by the virus, what then happens to the landlord whose own home is fine but who owes the bank mortgage payments and doesn't collect the rent to cover them?

Thankfully, our own home is fully paid off and we don't have our fingers in any other property.

The anticipated unemployment also puts a wrinkle in the post-secondary plans of many, as well as the fiscal plans of the places they are supposed to attend. Tuition does not pay the lion's share of the operating budget of any university or college, but it still counts for enough that if students can't afford to pay it, what is the institution's backup plan?

I have to say that, having taught the identical courses to university students paying a pretty penny for them, and CEGEP students paying next to nothing, I have my misgivings about Bernie Sanders' grandiose plan for free college. The price-point _must_ be reasonable and not impose a barrier, but my experience is that unless students have some fiscal skin in the game, they tend not to devote themselves as much. That said, with the manner in which post-secondary is paid for in the US, and the anticipated student unemployment, I suspect that, even if he doesn't win the Democrat nomination, folks will be nudged to taking a second look at that particular Sanders proposal; not because it's good or brilliant, but because it may be the only choice available for a bit.

Taking everything together, the challenge will be devising financial "adjustments" for the immediate future that will dovetail acceptably with the future 2 years from now, and beyond. MANY things will have to be paid for, paid out, and deferred, in a manner that does not easily merge back into how we did things up until a month ago. A lotta future work for auditors.


----------



## knight_yyz

Rick31797 said:


> So if I am getting this right .. say a person has a mortgage payment of 2,000.00. , to make it easy , 1,000.00 goes to principle and 1,000.00 goes to interest.. At the end of your deferral , you would owe 6,000.00 + 2,000 = 8,000.00
> 
> In this example would this be accurate?



No, because it has no bearing on your payment amount. Normally your payment is X% principle and Y% interest but in this case you are paying zero. When your payment is a little of both your principle is always going down, even in the first term it will go down a tiny amount. It doesn't matter what your monthly payment is. 
But, when you stop paying your mortgage for 6 months... I don't know how to do interest calculations on mortgages, but if you owe 100k on your mortgage at Z% today and defer for 6 months, your mortgage balance will increase to 100k plus Z% for 6 months. So at the end of your term you will be negotiating a loan for your balance plus the 6 months interest on 100k. And the interest is not compounded any differently. It is still calculated the same way. All you are doing is forcing your principle to go up. 

IIRC Royal bank allows you to defer one payment per year. So they have an idea of what is going on. TD bank has has had mortgage vacations in place for years now. I took one 5 years ago to piss off my ex wife.... (she had moved out I was paying down the principle and she would still get half of the resale value. So basically I was giving her adding extra half mortgage payment per month to her payout while I waited for the house to sell. ) 
So both those banks have some sort of policy in place for doing deferrals. The other banks I have no idea, you could not pay me to have an account at CIBS or Montreal....


----------



## allthumbs56

Currently there are over 8,000 people awaiting test results in Ontario. Expect the numbers to climb significantly just from the results when available. I'd like to hope that isolation and social distancing has worked and every one who has it has it - they just don't necessarily know it yet. We'll know in a couple weeks.


----------



## Doug Gifford

Shave off the beard, but keep the moustache:


----------



## Distortion

Milkman said:


> My sister in law now has the virus and so my brother is almost sure to have it. They're down in Connecticut. My son and his girlfriend are also infected and are in isolation in Vancouver.


Hope they all recover with no trips to the hospital


----------



## Rick31797

knight_yyz said:


> No, because it has no bearing on your payment amount. Normally your payment is X% principle and Y% interest but in this case you are paying zero. When your payment is a little of both your principle is always going down, even in the first term it will go down a tiny amount. It doesn't matter what your monthly payment is.
> But, when you stop paying your mortgage for 6 months... I don't know how to do interest calculations on mortgages, but if you owe 100k on your mortgage at Z% today and defer for 6 months, your mortgage balance will increase to 100k plus Z% for 6 months. So at the end of your term you will be negotiating a loan for your balance plus the 6 months interest on 100k. And the interest is not compounded any differently. It is still calculated the same way. All you are doing is forcing your principle to go up.
> 
> IIRC Royal bank allows you to defer one payment per year. So they have an idea of what is going on. TD bank has has had mortgage vacations in place for years now. I took one 5 years ago to piss off my ex wife.... (she had moved out I was paying down the principle and she would still get half of the resale value. So basically I was giving her adding extra half mortgage payment per month to her payout while I waited for the house to sell. )
> So both those banks have some sort of policy in place for doing deferrals. The other banks I have no idea, you could not pay me to have an account at CIBS or Montreal....



Thanks , so bottom line is there is a formula that benefits the lender...


----------



## Budda

Rick31797 said:


> Thanks , so bottom line is there is a formula that benefits the lender...


Always.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Is anyone surprised?

Five Florida college students test positive for coronavirus after spring break trip


----------



## torndownunit

Damn Chuck Billy, the singer for Testament tested positive. They were on a European tour that got cancelled when things got bad. They think there may be members from other bands/crew sick too.

TESTAMENT Singer CHUCK BILLY Tests Positive For Coronavirus

I think it was the drummer from Death Angel that I read is super sick.


----------



## vadsy

Is Testament a Christian group?


----------



## tdotrob

This doctor in Ontario seems pretty worried.

People lining up for a video game on Friday? You can buy those online from the company and it downloads right to your system.

'It's World War III,' says this ICU doctor, pleading with you to stay home | CBC News


----------



## torndownunit

vadsy said:


> Is Testament a Christian group?


No they'd just pray it away if they were.


----------



## keto

How the hell is Hong Kong, next door neighbour and high volume (everything) partner with China, reporting only 317 cases as I write this? Alberta has almost as many...China itself fewer deaths than a couple countries now, that just can't be right.


----------



## Sneaky

Well, Russia only has the about same amount, so I guess anything is possible. 

My friends 20YO daughter just flew out of HK today on a last-gasp return trip from Thailand. Glad she got on board. Lots of Canadians are going to be stuck abroad after this week I'm afraid.


----------



## Chito

keto said:


> How the hell is Hong Kong, next door neighbour and high volume (everything) partner with China, reporting only 317 cases as I write this? Alberta has almost as many...China itself fewer deaths than a couple countries now, that just can't be right.


Because as soon as they found out about the virus, they immediately did a lock down. They have been in self isolation for 9 weeks now.


----------



## davetcan

torndownunit said:


> I've been thinking of doing the same thing. I have about 6 inches of beard right now.


If you end up wearing a mask the beard will have to go anyway.


----------



## keto

Sneaky said:


> Well, Russia only has the about same amount, so I guess anything is possible.
> 
> My friends 20YO daughter just flew out of HK today on a last-gasp return trip from Thailand. Glad she got on board. Lots of Canadians are going to be stuck abroad after this week I'm afraid.


I'm guessing Russia may not be reporting at all, just treating it like another seasonal flu and fuckit, let's not bust our economy. They control their media well enough for that?



Chito said:


> Because as soon as they found out about the virus, they immediately did a lock down. They have been in self isolation for 9 weeks now.


Crazy to imagine. Borders and all?


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Maybe this is God's (or Allah, or Yarweh, or Mother Nature or whoever higher power you like) way of sending us to our room.


----------



## Chito

> Crazy to imagine. Borders and all?


Singapore is even better. They do social distancing but have been able to continue their lives with very little effect from the pandemic. They have tested everyone and keeps track of people who geta it and immediately isolate the people this person has been in contact with. And they track everyone. If they find out that someone not doing self quarantine the police go after them.


----------



## Dorian2

@Chito , Freedom comes at a price, eh. Wife's parents got back today from Hawaii and are quartinning. Haven't heard anything specific as far as Airports etc...probably tomorrow sometime.


----------



## Guitar101

Milkman said:


> My sister in law now has the virus and so my brother is almost sure to have it. They're down in Connecticut. My son and his girlfriend are also infected and are in isolation in Vancouver.
> 
> Should be an interesting week. There are still Canadians all over the world trying to get home (to infect the rest of us I guess). Talk about leaving things until the last minute.
> 
> I get that it has been tough for probably a week or more to get flights. I would have had my ass back here in February. Actually, I had enough sense not to go farther than Columbus since Christmas.
> 
> And yet people still think this is no big deal.
> 
> I hope we all survive, but there's a distinct possibility some of the members of this site will die from this virus.


I hope there doing well. I may be wrong but I think you may be able to get blood from your brother or son when they have built up antibodies against the virus. That would be like you getting the vaccine.


----------



## Electraglide

Chito said:


> Singapore is even better. They do social distancing but have been able to continue their lives with very little effect from the pandemic. They have tested everyone and keeps track of people who geta it and immediately isolate the people this person has been in contact with. And they track everyone. If they find out that someone not doing self quarantine the police go after them.


In a place where you can get a hefty fine for chewing gum, they will do it. BTW drugs of any sort, don't even think of it. 500 grams of cannibis, 100 grams of resin or 200 grams of Hash and you're gone.....they ship you home in a pine box.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Deaths jump almost 50% in less than a day. That rate of increase ought to wake some people up.......I hope.

Canada coronavirus death toll jumps almost 50% to 19 in less than a day | Calgary Herald


----------



## sulphur

Jim DaddyO said:


> Maybe this is God's (or Allah, or Yarweh, or Mother Nature or whoever higher power you like) way of sending us to our room.


Since the quarntine, the canals of Venice have cleeared up, 
there are deer spotted running through the streets of Tokyo, 
dolphins are swimming closer to the shores of Italy, 
pockets of polution are clearing up in areas of China.

Seems that we are the virus.


----------



## sambonee

Oh well let’s just send $50 mil to Greece. EU has a $22 trillion economy. 10 x ours. Wtf. 

and sending medical aid to China? Another wtf. 

I hope everyone is staying safe. Hold your Wallet tight. Wavy hair might need some more.


----------



## sulphur

This place is getting old fast.


----------



## vadsy

sambonee said:


> Oh well let’s just send $50 mil to Greece. EU has a $22 trillion economy. 10 x ours. Wtf.
> 
> and sending medical aid to China? Another wtf.
> 
> I hope everyone is staying safe. Hold your Wallet tight. Wavy hair might need some more.


You want the other virus thread.


----------



## torndownunit

2020 Olympics: Canada and Australia will not send athletes to Tokyo - CNN

In my own town, the Orangeville Blues and Jazz Festival (who I do web work for) just cancelled.


----------



## knight_yyz

Anyone have a date for when self isolation started? I just realized an office worker got back from India a few weeks ago and did not self isolate. I'm arguing with my boss about it right now


----------



## torndownunit

knight_yyz said:


> Anyone have a date for when self isolation started? I just realized an office worker got back from India a few weeks ago and did not self isolate. I'm arguing with my boss about it right now


If he was travelling, he should have been self isolating for 14 days after his return date. In his case the date the request for general self isolation was for most of us is secondary, he's should have been isolated due to the travel. And yes, your work should have been forcing him to. In my town some managers at Walmart returned from vacation and went right back to work. There was an total uproar when people found out and the health agencies were called.


----------



## knight_yyz

My boss is saying he got back before self isolation was being mentioned. Just wondering if there is a date when this was supposed to start.


----------



## torndownunit

knight_yyz said:


> My boss is saying he got back before self isolation was being mentioned. Just wondering if there is a date when this was supposed to start.


The issue is that unless you are exceeding the numbers a province has set out for group gatherings, or in a closed place (eg they are fining people for being in closed parks here) I am not sure what can be enforced in that case. You are relying on your work to do what's right. I just saw you said it was a few (so i take it 3 weeks) ago that he got back. If that's the case it's before any guidelines came out. I believe at that point there was only a travel advisory and a limit on gatherings over 500. When they second travel advisory and the closing of the border to non domestic travel came around is when the self isolation talk started.


----------



## Chito

He should be fine. By now if he was infected he would've shown symptoms. Also at this point in time, if he has it, he would've already infected the people he's gotten into contact with.


----------



## 12 stringer

I was hoping it would never get to _this_.....


----------



## torndownunit

Chito said:


> He should be fine. By now if he was infected he would've shown symptoms. Also at this point in time, if he has it, he would've already infected the people he's gotten into contact with.


That's not 100% accurate, he could have been carrying it but not showing any symptoms. Which is the big issue with the spread. He was absolutely traveling at a point when the virus was an issue, but he was back before the federal or provincial governments governments started really doing much. You are correct that someone likely would have been sick by now who works with him though, but his work is definitely treading a thin line. If he got back 3 weeks ago, there was a period between then and now where it would have been a good idea to send him home for a bit.


----------



## knight_yyz

Chito said:


> He should be fine. By now if he was infected he would've shown symptoms. Also at this point in time, if he has it, he would've already infected the people he's gotten into contact with.





torndownunit said:


> That's not 100% accurate, he could have been carrying it but not showing any symptoms. Which is the big issue with the spread. He was absolutely traveling at a point when the virus was an issue, but he was back before the federal or provincial governments governments started really doing much. You are correct that someone likely would have been sick by now who works with him though, but his work is definitely treading a thin line. If he got back 3 weeks ago, there was a period between then and now where it would have been a good idea to send him home for a bit.


He could be asymptomatic in which case we'll never know... Remeber Typhoid Mary?


----------



## Chito

knight_yyz said:


> He could be asymptomatic in which case we'll never know... Remeber Typhoid Mary?


I am aware that could be the case but at this point, do they just send him home and tell him not to come back till when? Since he has been there for over 2 weeks, if he passed it on, someone would be sick by now. But then we come back to the same issue, what if everyone in that group is asymptomatic? I guess the only way is for him to get tested.


----------



## guitarman2

Chito said:


> I am aware that could be the case but at this point, do they just send him home and tell him not to come back till when? Since he has been there for over 2 weeks, if he passed it on, someone would be sick by now. But then we come back to the same issue, *what if everyone in that group is asymptomatic? I guess the only way is for him to get tested.*


If its possible for that many to be asymptomatic then the only way out of this is a vaccine.


----------



## knight_yyz

I don't have dates. But suppose they requested self isolation in March 1st. If you came back Feb 27 do you self isolate or ignore? I agree dude in front office is probably safe but he was in India for 5 weeks got married at a huge wedding then travelled through at least 3 airports (layover in Vancouver?) to get back.


----------



## torndownunit

knight_yyz said:


> I don't have dates. But suppose they requested self isolation in March 1st. If you came back Feb 27 do you self isolate or ignore? I agree dude in front office is probably safe but he was in India for 5 weeks got married at a huge wedding then travelled through at least 3 airports (layover in Vancouver?) to get back.


I don't really know what can be done. I don't like seeing employers take employees concerns lightly during this. But I don't know if there's any option to do much about it if they don't agree. At this point, the damage would have already been done too.


----------



## guitarman2

Virus rebels. What next. Youth really is wasted on the young.

Virus rebels from France to Florida flout lockdown practices


----------



## cdntac

Guitar101 said:


> I hope there doing well. I may be wrong but I think you may be able to get blood from your brother or son when they have built up antibodies against the virus. That would be like you getting the vaccine.


I really don’t know if this was posted as a joke but if not, congratulations. You’ve officially posted the most stupid thing I’ve read on message boards about this virus.


----------



## Guitar101

Touchy subject as management has the power to let you go but if it were me, I would gather all the information I could, in writing if possible, in case this goes sideways and if it is proven that this person has the virus. He probably doesn't so I wouldn't push it too hard. If a lawsuit is pursued down the line, you could fall back on this information to help with the case. Keep this to yourself though. Loose lips sink ships.


----------



## Budda

No, he probably does.

And if you get fired for requesting time off in this, call CBC, CTV and your local radio station. That is a career ending move right now.


----------



## Milkman

knight_yyz said:


> My boss is saying he got back before self isolation was being mentioned. Just wondering if there is a date when this was supposed to start.


It was supposed to start the second his iq passed the 80 mark. Jeez, do people really need the government to tell them to use common sense? Sorry man, your new self isolation start date is the last time you were near the guy.


----------



## Milkman

guitarman2 said:


> Virus rebels. What next. Youth really is wasted on the young.
> 
> Virus rebels from France to Florida flout lockdown practices


I irony is, the very people that are carrying their dumb asses are the ones who will most likely be severely impacted by their irresponsible and reckless behavior. Who is going to run things if these losers are all that survives?

I was hearing on the news this morning that there's a viral video circulating now, by a doctor (who has been discredited) claiming that it's not really caused by a virus, but rather by the implementation of 5G technology in Wuhan City.

Now, I realize how stupid an idea that is, but if it has gone viral, it's because there are a lot of people who take it seriously.


----------



## Milkman

cdntac said:


> I really don’t know if this was posted as a joke but if not, congratulations. You’ve officially posted the most stupid thing I’ve read on message boards about this virus.


No I'm afraid you have to post something pretty stupid to meet that level.

This thing is, and I'm no expert, I'm type O negative. That means I can help most people but most people can't help me in terms of a blood transfusion.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## High/Deaf

knight_yyz said:


> Anyone have a date for when self isolation started? I just realized an office worker got back from India a few weeks ago and did not self isolate. I'm arguing with my boss about it right now


It was announced the evening of the 12th (Thursday), to take affect on anyone arriving on the 13th (Friday) or later.

I had friends arrive back from Mexico on the 12th, close to midnight. He is near the end of his self isolation period now.


----------



## High/Deaf

Milkman said:


> Now, I realize how stupid an idea that is, but if it has gone viral, it's because there are a lot of people who take it seriously.


A lot of people are still wearing, hoarding and selling masks. Masks do not help you from getting the virus but may help you from spreading the virus, if you are coughing and hacking. But most people wearing masks are wearing them as their own PPE - now where are they getting their information? Not from any of the major media sources I'm listening to, so either smaller cultural media outlets or social media (more likely).

What they are really doing with the mask hoarding/wasting is keeping them from the people who really need them, the front line healthcare workers. Shortages are already a concern. A couple just got fined (a pittance of $500 - should have been 10X that) for selling surgical masks at the side of a park, for $20 each. 

When I see someone in public wearing a mask, my first thought is "what a selfish bastard, wasting a mask that may be needed by the person that will help save his life, or someone he cares about". Although, obviously, he only cares about himself. 

Lots of people talk about 'love one another', 'be kind to each other', but when push comes to shove, you see the real underbelly of human nature. It isn't pretty, it isn't kind and it isn't about others --- and it isn't the crap they've been verbally spewing for decades now.


----------



## boyscout

Guitar101 said:


> As much as I'd like to agree, human nature say's "if all these people are buying this, I'd better get some just in case".


Saturday's National Post has an article about the panic run on Canada's gourmet food staple, Kraft Dinner.

Typical demand is about seven million boxes per month. (  Highest per person in all of Kraft's markets; Canada has a good-eating food guide but KD ain't on it!) This month demand spiked to fifteen million in the panic.

The thing is, Kraft's plant manager says they can already crank out four million boxes PER WEEK, more than double what Canadians usually eat! There is no threat to that supply. All the raw ingredients are in plentiful supply already, and Kraft has a four-stage plan for keeping the lines going even if the people running them start to get sick.

Disappointing for me... I have a garage full of Kraft Dinner that I was hoping would secure my retirement. Anybody need some? </joke>

So many of the products people are hoarding - including toilet paper - are and will be returning to shelves soon. There may soon be good deals in your neighbors' garages too.


----------



## keto

We tried to do some online shopping.....there's an ongoing daycare in this house, supporting front line workers. We're OK for food, but can't get any of the cleaning etc stuff needed, so we won't be able to do it for that reason alone, very soon.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Port Coquitlam family fined for reselling marked-up masks at park

Scumbags


----------



## mturk

Milkman said:


> I irony is, the very people that are carrying their dumb asses are the ones who will most likely be severely impacted by their irresponsible and reckless behavior. Who is going to run things if these losers are all that survives?
> 
> I was hearing on the news this morning that there's a viral video circulating now, by a doctor (who has been discredited) claiming that it's not really caused by a virus, but rather by the implementation of 5G technology in Wuhan City.
> 
> Now, I realize how stupid an idea that is, but if it has gone viral, it's because there are a lot of people who take it seriously.


I'm going to play it safe and wear my tin-foil hat everywhere I go.


----------



## laristotle

boyscout said:


> I have a garage full of Kraft Dinner that I was hoping would secure my retirement. Anybody need some?


----------



## Lincoln

I've noticed the stores have no rice. Seems to be lots of perishables though, like salads and vegetables. 

The store I was in a few days ago had no peppers or cucumbers. I think that's a sign of the times.


----------



## mhammer

guitarman2 said:


> Virus rebels. What next. Youth really is wasted on the young.
> 
> Virus rebels from France to Florida flout lockdown practices


You might find this issue of the digital on-line journal interesting: Home - Behavioral Scientist

Also this interview with Dr. Anthony Fauci in SCIENCE: ‘I’m going to keep pushing.’ Anthony Fauci tries to make the White House listen to facts of the pandemic


----------



## boyscout

Lincoln said:


> I've noticed the stores have no rice. Seems to be lots of perishables though, like salads and vegetables.
> 
> The store I was in a few days ago had no peppers or cucumbers. I think that's a sign of the times.


The Kraft Dinner article mentioned above reported the obvious: people have been stocking up on foods with a long low-maintenance shelf life rather than food with short lives and/or a need for refrigeration or special care. The article doesn't list many of them but rice, pasta, beans, canned prepared foods like beans and pasta, dry and canned soup, Kraft Dinner, all popular.

Surprisingly canned meats were plentiful on my last shopping in a Walmart about a week ago... they should have been scooped up in the same panic buying. Ham, Spam, corned beef, etc. We have a couple of cases of canned meats from this company in Ohio:

Order Canned Meats Such as Pork, Poultry & Beef Online | Werling & Sons Inc

We bought a selection of their products on the way back from the U.S. a couple of years ago. As long as the tins don't freeze (rupturing the seams of the cans) canned meats can have a shelf life up to about ten years. We've eaten several cans of it, most recently about three months ago, and it has been certainly been unspoiled and quite tasty. Among their products is canned bacon... yes! bacon! it's good!

Here's another popular supplier, haven't tried their products:

Yoder's Canned Meats

However the (admittedly high fat) meats available on most grocery shelves in Canada are OK emergency foods too.

It's easy to be better-prepared - a lot of Canadians obviously weren't. Lesson learned? Probably not.


----------



## keto

boyscout said:


> The Kraft Dinner article mentioned above reported the obvious: people have been stocking up on foods with a long low-maintenance shelf life rather than food with short lives and/or a need for refrigeration or special care. The article doesn't list many of them but rice, pasta, beans, canned prepared foods like beans and pasta, dry and canned soup, Kraft Dinner, all popular.
> 
> Surprisingly canned meats were plentiful on my last shopping in a Walmart about a week ago... they should have been scooped up in the same panic buying. Ham, Spam, corned beef, etc. We have a couple of cases of canned meats from this company in Ohio:
> 
> Order Canned Meats Such as Pork, Poultry & Beef Online | Werling & Sons Inc
> 
> We bought a selection of their products on the way back from the U.S. a couple of years ago. As long as the tins don't freeze (rupturing the seams of the cans) canned meats can have a shelf life up to about ten years. We've eaten several cans of it, most recently about three months ago, and it has been certainly been unspoiled and quite tasty. Among their products is canned bacon... yes! bacon! it's good!
> 
> Here's another popular supplier, haven't tried their products:
> 
> Yoder's Canned Meats
> 
> However the (admittedly high fat) meats available on most grocery shelves in Canada are OK emergency foods too.
> 
> It's easy to be better-prepared - a lot of Canadians obviously weren't. Lesson learned? Probably not.


We saw the same thing, and in fact tinned corned beef was even on sale a couple weeks back, so I threw a few into the cart, but there was lots of canned meat & fish on the shelves. I'm heading to the grocery store now, will report back.


----------



## 10409

I just sent the wife to Costco to fill up on everything. I feel like Whatever’s coming is coming in the next week. Hopefully it’s just me succumbing to media hype but I can’t help but feel like storm hasn’t even hit yet. The numbers are staggering.

I’m stubborn when it comes to the doctors anyways...a few months ago I ate my handlebars on my snowmobile and probably broke a bone in my hand. It’s not swollen anymore but you can actually see a bone pointing the wrong way on the back of my hand and it really hurts when I put pressure the wrong way.. Don’t think now’s the best time for an X-ray. Probably like this forever now.


----------



## tomee2

High/Deaf said:


> A lot of people are still wearing, hoarding and selling masks. Masks do not help you from getting the virus but may help you from spreading the virus, if you are coughing and hacking. But most people wearing masks are wearing them as their own PPE - now where are they getting their information? Not from any of the major media sources I'm listening to, so either smaller cultural media outlets or social media (more likely).
> 
> What they are really doing with the mask hoarding/wasting is keeping them from the people who really need them, the front line healthcare workers. Shortages are already a concern. A couple just got fined (a pittance of $500 - should have been 10X that) for selling surgical masks at the side of a park, for $20 each.
> 
> When I see someone in public wearing a mask, my first thought is "what a selfish bastard, wasting a mask that may be needed by the person that will help save his life, or someone he cares about". Although, obviously, he only cares about himself.
> 
> Lots of people talk about 'love one another', 'be kind to each other', but when push comes to shove, you see the real underbelly of human nature. It isn't pretty, it isn't kind and it isn't about others --- and it isn't the crap they've been verbally spewing for decades now.


How do you feel about people driving around alone in their cars wearing masks? I see that too. Saw it in late Jan in North York, and last week here in ottawa.


----------



## boyscout

tomee2 said:


> How do you feel about people driving around alone in their cars wearing masks? I see that too. Saw it in late Jan in North York, and last week here in ottawa.


Well, if they have decent medical-quality masks and are trying to avoid coughing/sneezing germs onto surfaces inside their car - maybe someone else drives it too - then they might be doing something good (though they should be self-isolating and not out driving).

Pretty much any other reason for doing it is nonsense.


----------



## Milkman

I bought food yesterday. The local butcher shop I shop at had a good selection of meat and plenty of it. The shelves were full of basic groceries as well. There was TP, but I have some.
They don't sell hand sanitizer or face masks.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

There is a very good chance that the times we live in right now will be a significant chapter in future history books.


----------



## keithb7

We don’t normally eat K Dinner or canned ham. Pasta or rice either. We did however buy a small supply of each. To have some here in case things get really stupid at the grocery store. We sure aren’t hoarding any of it. We’ll eat it if for some reason or other we need to. My wife and I are not a doomsday planners. Just being practical and have a short term back up plan.

I don’t doubt that a small percentage of people are probably acquiring guns and extra ammo. Seems they think they’ll need to defend their property and family. From what? The Zombie apocalypse hasn’t arrived. I guess they think it’s coming.

Last I heard Covid-19 symptoms are fever, temp, cough, headache. Not: “After people die from covid-19 complications, they come back to life to eat humans. They roam the planet busting down your doors and windows.”


----------



## torndownunit

keithb7 said:


> We don’t normally eat K Dinner or canned ham. Pasta or rice either. We did however buy a small supply of each. To have some here in case things get really stupid at the grocery store. We sure aren’t hoarding any of it. We’ll eat it if for some reason or other we need to. My wife and I are not a doomsday planners. Just being practical and have a short term back up plan.
> 
> I don’t doubt that a small percentage of people are probably acquiring guns and extra ammo. Seems they think they’ll need to defend their property and family. From what? The Zombie apocalypse hasn’t arrived. I guess they think it’s coming.
> 
> Last I heard Covid-19 symptoms are fever, temp, cough, headache. Not: “After people die from covid-19 complications, they come back to life to eat humans. They roam the planet busting down your doors and windows.”


The zombies happen when they rush out a vaccine that's not ready. I know my sci-fi/horror.


----------



## vadsy

are you breaking the quarantine/isolation streak if you go out for groceries, walk with the dog, fishing with the kids? I just want to know how many marks I can legally scratch on the wall to reflect my time in lockup


----------



## GuitarsCanada

tomee2 said:


> How do you feel about people driving around alone in their cars wearing masks? I see that too. Saw it in late Jan in North York, and last week here in ottawa.


Early on, and I may have posted this before I can't remember. I went into the drug store here and there was a Chinese girl in there, clearly a Brock student, wandering all over the store. I happened to follow her out and she got into her car and put a mask and gloves on. Nothing IN the store, only alone in her car.


----------



## 10409

vadsy said:


> are you breaking the quarantine/isolation streak if you go out for groceries, walk with the dog, fishing with the kids? I just want to know how many marks I can legally scratch on the wall to reflect my time in lockup


Depends where you live. We take the kids out to walk the dog. Lots of other families out doing walks by themselves. Shopping will have to continue, but My mother in law works for the wine store in a loblaws, they haven’t closed yet and she’s still at work. As if wine is essential. I’m contemplating yelling at her manager who is off work self isolating herself while her employees work.

Lots of Facebook videos of Italians being forcefully arrested for just going outside. Can’t share them on here


----------



## Mooh

For years I've given myself the school holidays off, and Mrs. Mooh is laid off from her EA job 3 times a year, so we're used to having a certain amount of the basics on hand. It's kind of natural if you grew (as I did) up having to make sure you had drinking water and firewood stocked up for at least part of the year, or planning the garden around actual needs. Mrs. Mooh started paying household bills at about 12 years old, kind of an urban spin on doing farm chores to help maintain the family firm.

Not to denigrate the choices people make, but people who are able need to be better prepared all the time as a matter of lifestyle. It's not panic to be prepared for a couple of months. it's prudence.


----------



## vadsy

mike_oxbig said:


> Depends where you live. We take the kids out to walk the dog. Lots of other families out doing walks by themselves. Shopping will have to continue, but My mother in law works for the wine store in a loblaws, they haven’t closed yet and she’s still at work. As if wine is essential. I’m contemplating yelling at her manager who is off work self isolating herself while her employees work.
> 
> Lots of Facebook videos of Italians being forcefully arrested for just going outside. Can’t share them on here


we live in the burbs and the population density is pretty low. walking we can avoid everyone, sometimes we don't see a soul while circling our block. stores are still pretty good but I am seeing more of em limiting the number of folks allowed inside at the same time. fishing is hella distant from pretty much all life except the fish. I just need to know what officially counts as quarantine so I can document it now and write my memoirs and describe what I had to endure to my grandchildren


----------



## Lola

Will Martial Law prevail? We are getting damned close.


----------



## 10409

vadsy said:


> we live in the burbs and the population density is pretty low. walking we can avoid everyone, sometimes we don't see a soul while circling our block. stores are still pretty good but I am seeing more of em limiting the number of folks allowed inside at the same time. fishing is hella distant from pretty much all life except the fish. I just need to know what officially counts as quarantine so I can document it now and write my memoirs and describe what I had to endure to my grandchildren


Fishing is probably completely safe. Even if fish could transmit the disease with my luck I’d be completely safe.


----------



## torndownunit

mike_oxbig said:


> Fishing is probably completely safe. Even if fish could transmit the disease with my luck I’d be completely safe.


Until the zombie fish at least.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

We are pretty rural, so walking the dog is easy as we rarely encounter people. Even when we do, they all understand to have a chat we stay a good distance apart. Probably over 2x what they recomend. We also live on a fixed income, so our habit over the years is to stock up on things when they are on sale. The freezer and pantry are pretty full at all times. The only thing we have to go out for are perishables like milk, fruit, and salad fixin's. So, we are in pretty good shape, except the flour is running a bit low, which is not really a panic situation. 
I was a bit concerned because over the last few of months I have had no energy, a bit of a headache, and some dizzyness. It started well before all this came to the country, like before January, and we really don't get close to many people. Today I looked up the side effects of my blood pressure medication the Dr put me on last November and everything fell into place. An ah-ha moment. Gave them a ring and informed them, so just waiting for them to get back to me about what to do.


----------



## 10409

I packed the mini freezer to the top. Had to throw out some freezer burned vegan hamburger patties from when we had weird friends. If I die it will be with meat in my belly.


----------



## boyscout

GuitarsCanada said:


> Early on, and I may have posted this before I can't remember. I went into the drug store here and there was a Chinese girl in there, clearly a Brock student, wandering all over the store. I happened to follow her out and she got into her car and put a mask and gloves on. Nothing IN the store, only alone in her car.


She was on her way to pick up her mother who told her to wear the mask and gloves everywhere she goes.

Either that or Brock's admission standards have fallen off the charts.


----------



## keto

Local grocery store well stocked with food, including veg & meat, which wasn't the case last weekend. No flour or pasta, limits of 1/2 on a fair number of things. Cleaning supplies are a problem, got laundry and dish soap and even (LIMIT 1) hand soap, but nothing like Lysol/MrClean. Tylenol almost all gone.


----------



## Doug Gifford

About four years ago, I began playing organ and leading the "funeral choir" at the local Catholic church. At first, we only did funerals but now we do masses as needed as well -- many in the congregation really enjoy hearing the organ.

Now, all masses have been canceled. Sometime in the next few weeks, there may be a funeral. The current rule is that the only people allowed to attend a funeral are the immediate family, the priest, and the undertaker. I'm emailing the priest to see if I can be allowed to play if the family wants music. The organ is in a loft at the back of the church and absolutely far away from anyone. If we add a cantor, she can stand about three metres away from me at the top of the stairs. Seems low risk, but we'll see. It seems a shame that we'd eliminate the spiritual salve of music at a funeral when it adds no risk. I go down every day and practise -- the church is unlocked but has always been empty this past week -- and otherwise am a good little social distancer. Playing their lovely organ in that lovely space is one of my great pleasures. You should hear my version of "Ain't Misbehavin'", funky stops, pedals and all!


----------



## colchar

boyscout said:


> She was on her way to pick up her mother who told her to wear the mask and gloves everywhere she goes.
> 
> Either that or Brock's admission standards have fallen off the charts.



Brock doesn't have admission standards.


----------



## colchar

Was out for a short drive yesterday (so no contact with anybody, but I got out of the house) and on a cul-de-sac in my subdivision two fathers were out playing a game of road hockey with about ten kids. Some people just don't get it.


----------



## High/Deaf

vadsy said:


> we live in the burbs and the population density is pretty low. walking we can avoid everyone, sometimes we don't see a soul while circling our block. stores are still pretty good but I am seeing more of em limiting the number of folks allowed inside at the same time. fishing is hella distant from pretty much all life except the fish. I just need to know what officially counts as quarantine so I can document it now and write my memoirs and describe what I had to endure to my grandchildren


From a practical POV, just think of what you're trying to accomplish. 

If you don't want to get sick yourself, choose activities that limit, or eliminate, the chance of coming into direct contact with others. Walking the dog or hiking in relative isolation isn't a problem. Bumping into people on trails and paths, I'd look for some place less popular.

If you think you're sick and don't want to infect others, a more serious isolation is required if you don't want to be part of the problem. 

I'm still on my bike nearly every day (I'm not sick and hope to not get sick). The more popular trails are now littered with newbies who don't really have the etiquette or any idea of what we all should be doing. I occasionally have to go well around groups of 10 or more people all standing in the middle of a path, or 3 or 4 blocking a pedestrian bridge. But I've been doing this for decades, so I know places to go that aren't as well known by the newbies. That's my choice for now, until this novelty of 'going outside' wears off.


----------



## Milkman

Yeah we went for a drive yesterday as well. It was nice to have the sun on our faces. Drove out to the rez to buy gas. Paid $0.53 / litre.

No harm in driving, well other than the pollution I guess.


----------



## keto

colchar said:


> Was out for a short drive yesterday (so no contact with anybody, but I got out of the house) and on a cul-de-sac in my subdivision two fathers were out playing a game of road hockey with about ten kids. Some people just don't get it.


Personally, I think that's fine. They're not rolling around in a group hug. There has to be some amount of normalcy, especially for kids. What's your issue with this?


----------



## vadsy

High/Deaf said:


> From a practical POV, just think of what you're trying to accomplish.
> 
> If you don't want to get sick yourself, choose activities that limit, or eliminate, the chance of coming into direct contact with others. Walking the dog or hiking in relative isolation isn't a problem. Bumping into people on trails and paths, I'd look for some place less popular.
> 
> If you think you're sick and don't want to infect others, a more serious isolation is required if you don't want to be part of the problem.
> 
> I'm still on my bike nearly every day (I'm not sick and hope to not get sick). The more popular trails are now littered with newbies who don't really have the etiquette or any idea of what we all should be doing. I occasionally have to go well around groups of 10 or more people all standing in the middle of a path, or 3 or 4 blocking a pedestrian bridge. But I've been doing this for decades, so I know places to go that aren't as well known by the newbies. That's my choice for now, until this novelty of 'going outside' wears off.


the rest is just conversation but the main questions are, if I leave the house for any reason (dog, food, dog food) am I breaking quarantine and required to start my 14 days again? is self isolation different from quarantine?


----------



## vadsy

keto said:


> Personally, I think that's fine. They're not rolling around in a group hug. There has to be some amount of normalcy, especially for kids. What's your issue with this?


maybe he lives in a bad neighbourhood with the unkept and undesirables. theyre all probably pretty gross. personally I think he should have run them down with his car and felt good about it


----------



## Milkman

keto said:


> Personally, I think that's fine. They're not rolling around in a group hug. There has to be some amount of normalcy, especially for kids. What's your issue with this?


I know what you're saying, but playing hockey together is full of incidental contact, or at least it was when I was still playing. It's closer than I think anyone should be coming to others under the circumstances.

The only person I'm coming that close to these days is the missus.


----------



## JazzyT

Last week was week one of spring break. We spent it in Vancouver, as it went through various stages of lockdown. My wife packed a shopping bag full of hand sanitiser, wipes and gloves. We did a big wipe down of the hotel suite. We bought food from the grocery store for breakfasts in the hotel suite and other meals were to-go. Everything else we did was out of doors, like biking around Stanley Park and going to Squamish. Despite that, we are pariahs back in Kelowna. The exchange student living with us was supposed to move to her next family, but they are freaking out and want her to spend two more weeks with us to see if she develops Covid-19 in the meanwhile. We had planned to go up to our ski condo this past weekend, but the family we share it with was freaking out, too.


----------



## Milkman

JazzyT said:


> Last week was week one of spring break. We spent it in Vancouver, as it went through various stages of lockdown. My wife packed a shopping bag full of hand sanitiser, wipes and gloves. We did a big wipe down of the hotel suite. We bought food from the grocery store for breakfasts in the hotel suite and other meals were to-go. Everything else we did was out of doors, like biking around Stanley Park and going to Squamish. Despite that, we are pariahs back in Kelowna. The exchange student living with us was supposed to move to her next family, but they are freaking out and want her to spend two more weeks with us to see if she develops Covid-19 in the meanwhile. We had planned to go up to our ski condo this past weekend, but the family we share it with was freaking out, too.


I can understand their trepidation. Vancouver as you probably now know, is a hot spot for Covid-19. I'd say you have two weeks before anyone will want to take risks with you. Sorry, I'm sure it sucks.


----------



## vadsy

I'm mind boggled you left home and went to Vancouver last week given all the shit hitting the fan


----------



## Jim DaddyO

colchar said:


> Brock doesn't have admission standards.



I thought is was "breathing with a pulse". I guess I could be wrong though.....lol.


----------



## colchar

keto said:


> Personally, I think that's fine. They're not rolling around in a group hug. There has to be some amount of normalcy, especially for kids. What's your issue with this?



We are supposed to keep two meters away from other people to avoid transmission. They weren't even two feet from each other. In fact, some of the kids (obviously going after the ball) weren't two inches from each other.

Public playgrounds closed in Lower Mainland to fight coronavirus


‘Full-blown soccer game’ at Surrey park concerns resident amid COVID-19 fears - Surrey Now-Leader


Click on the 'Distancing Crackdown' link on the right:

CTV News | CTV National News with Lisa LaFlamme


On the news last night they also showed video of kids in a playground with the local mayor (Mississauga? somewhere in B.C.?) lambasting the parents for being so irresponsible.

ETA: Turns out it was Mississauga. I am not sure how to embed tweets but I will try. If it doesn't work go to Mayor Crombie's Twitter page and scroll down to yesterday's date.

Twitter Publish


----------



## colchar

JazzyT said:


> Last week was week one of spring break. We spent it in Vancouver, as it went through various stages of lockdown.


There is no lockdown anywhere in Canada.


----------



## Lincoln

vadsy said:


> I'm mind boggled you left home and went to Vancouver last week given all the shit hitting the fan


Vancouver would be the last place in Canada I'd want to go right now. Not to mention flying in an airplane......


----------



## GuitarsCanada

boyscout said:


> She was on her way to pick up her mother who told her to wear the mask and gloves everywhere she goes.
> 
> Either that or Brock's admission standards have fallen off the charts.


Brock operates on a pay system only. Most of the Chinese students that come here can't speak English or understand it, but they pay enormous amounts of money to attend and that's perfectly OK with Brock. Niagara College is the same.


----------



## guitarman2

Doug Ford orders shutdown of all non essential businesses.

My company is a supply chain so hopefully we can keep operating. Many of our office workers can work from home and I'm waiting on a shipment of extra laptop s to facilitate this. I could probably work from home part time but I support technology in the plant. If the plant workers are allowed to keep working I'll be in the office.

Coronavirus: All non-essential workplaces ordered to close in Ontario


----------



## vadsy

Lincoln said:


> Vancouver would be the last place in Canada I'd want to go right now. Not to mention flying in an airplane......


exactly.


----------



## guitarman2

vadsy said:


> I'm mind boggled you left home and went to Vancouver last week given all the shit hitting the fan


I'd have likely not gone there my self but it is a Canadian destination. I'm more perplexed at the imbeciles that left after March 16th for Peru and now are crying for Canada to get them out now that Peru has sealed their borders in and out.


----------



## allthumbs56

boyscout said:


> Disappointing for me... I have a garage full of Kraft Dinner that I was hoping would secure my retirement. Anybody need some? </joke>


Only one box left but we're heavily invested in empties


----------



## JazzyT

Lincoln said:


> Vancouver would be the last place in Canada I'd want to go right now. Not to mention flying in an airplane......


I wouldn't fly anywhere now, either. We drove. It is only 400km away for us.

Usually, when in Vancouver we take the Sky Train, but this time we drove places. Given the social distancing we did, I'm not worried.


----------



## vadsy

guitarman2 said:


> I'd have likely not gone there my self but it is a Canadian destination. I'm more perplexed at the imbeciles that left after March 16th for Peru and now are crying for Canada to get them out now that Peru has sealed their borders in and out.


yea, Canadian destination for Covid


----------



## Mooh

Walking the dog was easy yesterday. I simply turned a corner or crossed the street when people approached, and took lots of fun detours through mostly unoccupied small parks. But it’s small town stuff, I’d hate to live where my sister lives in her part of Toronto, folks are unavoidable there as far as I can tell. 

It doesn’t help my mutts but I’m going to start using the stationary bike now.


----------



## JazzyT

Mooh said:


> Walking the dog was easy yesterday. I simply turned a corner or crossed the street when people approached, and took lots of fun detours through mostly unoccupied small parks. But it’s small town stuff, I’d hate to live where my sister lives in her part of Toronto, folks are unavoidable there as far as I can tell.
> 
> It doesn’t help my mutts but I’m going to start using the stationary bike now.


We live on the town limits of Kelowna. Kuipers Peak looks down on my house:










But turn around and it's perfect for dog walking...


----------



## guitarman2

JazzyT said:


> We live on the town limits of Kelowna. Kuipers Peak looks down on my house:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But turn around and it's perfect for dog walking...


Looks like a good place to be. For the last 2 weeks My life has been the 3 kilometer drive from my house to the office. With the exception of a short visit to Long and Mcquades 2 Saturdays ago and last Saturday. Those visits are done as well. Anything I need will be online order.
Its been boring staying home every weekend but I've accomplished a hell of a lot.
This weekend alone I cleaned and straightened out the garage and the shed in the back yard.


----------



## mhammer

vadsy said:


> the rest is just conversation but the main questions are, if I leave the house for any reason (dog, food, dog food) am I breaking quarantine and required to start my 14 days again?* is self isolation different from quarantine?*


What is the difference between isolation and quarantine?


----------



## vadsy

mhammer said:


> What is the difference between isolation and quarantine?


thank you. I had those two definitions swapped in my head


----------



## mhammer

Slowly but surely, I'm learning to simply enter the question I'm trying to answer into Google. Took me decades to learn that trick, but I can be rehabilitated.


----------



## vadsy

I'm just trying to fill the forum with random bs and get my post count up


----------



## 10409

I’m coincidentally trying to up my likes given count.


----------



## 10409

mhammer said:


> Slowly but surely, I'm learning to simply enter the question I'm trying to answer into Google. Took me decades to learn that trick, but I can be rehabilitated.


Www.lmgtfy.com is a nice touch to let people know they’re asking a forum instead of a search engine


----------



## 10409

LMGTFY


----------



## vadsy

mike_oxbig said:


> I’m coincidentally trying to up my likes given count.


I can help. anything to bring spirits up in these drab times


----------



## Electraglide

JazzyT said:


> We live on the town limits of Kelowna. Kuipers Peak looks down on my house:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But turn around and it's perfect for dog walking...


Still traces of the fires I see. If you turn about 90' to your left on the top pic. you'd be able to see where I lived when I worked in the Nursery in Summerland. If you walked straight towards the middle of the bridge you'd trip over the house we lived in in '55 at the edge of the lake. That was before we moved to Vernon. I hear that a place in Vernon is making hand sanitizers now. 








Okanagan Spirits.


----------



## Distortion

GuitarsCanada said:


> Early on, and I may have posted this before I can't remember. I went into the drug store here and there was a Chinese girl in there, clearly a Brock student, wandering all over the store. I happened to follow her out and she got into her car and put a mask and gloves on. Nothing IN the store, only alone in her car.


Might have been her brothers car. Zing


----------



## tdotrob

JazzyT said:


> I wouldn't fly anywhere now, either. We drove. It is only 400km away for us.
> 
> Usually, when in Vancouver we take the Sky Train, but this time we drove places. Given the social distancing we did, I'm not worried.


It think it’s insane that people were not staying home last weekend. Sorry to be a dick but true. You could


JazzyT said:


> I wouldn't fly anywhere now, either. We drove. It is only 400km away for us.
> 
> Usually, when in Vancouver we take the Sky Train, but this time we drove places. Given the social distancing we did, I'm not worried.


Hmmm


----------



## Milkman

tdotrob said:


> It think it’s insane that people were not staying home last weekend. Sorry to be a dick but true. You could
> 
> 
> Hmmm


That guy is pretty cool. I LOVE his glitterbomb anti-porch pirate clips.


----------



## allthumbs56

Apparently they are investigating 60 or more existing drugs that may help combat Covid 19. A few that have already been talked about, but dozens more that may interfere with the virus latching on to the cells in our lungs. Interesting that I am already on one of those drugs for my diabetes.

I read it in the NY Times if you want to track it down.

Scientists Identify 69 Drugs to Test Against the Coronavirus


----------



## Milkman

allthumbs56 said:


> Apparently they are investigating 60 or more existing drugs that may help combat Covid 19. A few that have already been talked about, but dozens more that may interfere with the virus latching on to the cells in our lungs. Interesting that I am already on one of those drugs for my diabetes.
> 
> I read it in the NY Times if you want to track it down.
> 
> Scientists Identify 69 Drugs to Test Against the Coronavirus


I recommend weed.

Yeah, I know, but it sure helps me with depression and other issues.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

colchar said:


> There is no lockdown anywhere in Canada.



Yet


----------



## Distortion

Good time to use the amber alert system for protocol. All the young people have cell phones and will have no excuse.


----------



## Electraglide

Distortion said:


> Good time to use the amber alert system for protocol. All the young people have cell phones and will have no excuse.


The emergency alert system supposedly works on all phones (never heard it on any of mine). I could imagine what would happen if it went off 4 times in the middle of the night in Ont.. There's enough bitching when it goes off when a kid goes missing.


----------



## allthumbs56

Distortion said:


> Good time to use the amber alert system for protocol. All the young people have cell phones and will have no excuse.


They could use GPS tracking to ensure that no two cell phones are with 2 meters of each other.


----------



## Electraglide

allthumbs56 said:


> They could use GPS tracking to ensure that no two cell phones are with 2 meters of each other.


Really screw it for those with more than one phone at a time.


----------



## Distortion

Electraglide said:


> I could imagine what would happen if it went off 4 times in the middle of the night


Do you really think that is going to happen ?


----------



## allthumbs56

Milkman said:


> I recommend weed.
> 
> Yeah, I know, but it sure helps me with depression and other issues.


Wasn't that also your recommendation before the virus too?


----------



## Milkman

allthumbs56 said:


> Wasn't that also your recommendation before the virus too?


Yeah it often is.


----------



## JazzyT

Electraglide said:


> Still traces of the fires I see. If you turn about 90' to your left on the top pic. you'd be able to see where I lived when I worked in the Nursery in Summerland. If you walked straight towards the middle of the bridge you'd trip over the house we lived in in '55 at the edge of the lake. That was before we moved to Vernon. I hear that a place in Vernon is making hand sanitizers now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okanagan Spirits.


Now alckies can drink craft distillery hand sanitizer! Oo-la-la!


----------



## JazzyT

Milkman said:


> Yeah it often is.


"I used to smoke a lot of weed. I still do, but I used to, as well."


----------



## davetcan

colchar said:


> Brock doesn't have admission standards.


Admission standards = $$$


----------



## boyscout

Ontario and Quebec order all non-essential businesses to close. “Quebec will be on hold for three weeks,” said Quebec Premier François Legault.

COVID-19: Ontario and Quebec order non-essential businesses closed after spike in coronavirus totals


----------



## keto

boyscout said:


> Ontario and Quebec order all non-essential businesses to close. “Quebec will be on hold for three weeks,” said Quebec Premier François Legault.
> 
> COVID-19: Ontario and Quebec order non-essential businesses closed after spike in coronavirus totals


Kinda surprised Kenney didn't announce same in his presser just now. But Alberta so far seems to have a decent handle on things, I will say.


----------



## Electraglide

JazzyT said:


> Now alckies can drink craft distillery hand sanitizer! Oo-la-la!


At 70% alcohol, probably. Beats this








and is about the same % as this.


----------



## knight_yyz

Self isolation means you can go out and do your shopping banking etc and walking the dog. Just stay away from other people. 

Has anyone else noticed there seem to be a lot more dog owners since this started? I used to be able to walk my dog without bumping into anyone. Lately i have to keep crossing streets and changing direction. ( I'm not worried about catching the virus from passerby, more about keeping my female in heat away from other dogs until she can be safely spayed) I know some people are looking at fostering dogs for the interim but it seems like there are more people walking than I have ever seen before. 

It must be an Asian thing... I see Asians all over the place driving cars wearing masks and gloves. 


My boss is so confused right now. We all want to keep working, ( all 4 of us) but after today's announcement I am not sure if were are supposed to be closed or not. We do fall under manufacturing. 

I also find it hilarious that the Liquor stores are still open.... Must be the cash cow for Ontario...


----------



## Electraglide

Distortion said:


> Do you really think that is going to happen ?


Possibly. Especially in parts of the states. Wouldn't do any good but it could happen. They say in quebec now, no gatherings of more than 2 people.....families exempt. I guess that rules out manage a trois.
Actually, with various powers that be imposing a lot of restrictions and fines on a lot of things and giving the various police forces an open ticket coupled with the new version of the war measures act I can see this and more happening. Of course it only works if you have a cell phone and your cell phone is new enough to accept the emergency system......note to self pull the card from the burner and put it in the iphone 4. Not to sure about the validity of this but I've read of various places in various countries where you have to have a pass to leave your house.....even to go to a grocery store or drug store. Might happen here.


----------



## Electraglide




----------



## knight_yyz

Electraglide said:


> At 70% alcohol, probably. Beats this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and is about the same % as this.


Is Everclear sold in Canada?


----------



## mhammer

allthumbs56 said:


> Apparently they are investigating 60 or more existing drugs that may help combat Covid 19. A few that have already been talked about, but dozens more that may interfere with the virus latching on to the cells in our lungs. Interesting that I am already on one of those drugs for my diabetes.
> 
> I read it in the NY Times if you want to track it down.
> 
> Scientists Identify 69 Drugs to Test Against the Coronavirus


I think the word "combat" needs some unpacking. A drug could "combat" one or more effects of the virus, without necessarily stopping/blocking/killing the virus itself. That's certainly not _nothing_ if you happen to be in the ICU, but it's not a miracle cure, simply better odds for a satisfactory recovery..

A drug could also impede the propagation of the virus, such that it doesn't infect a person at the rate it might in the _absence_ of the drug. That is, it doesn't prevent infection in the first place, but slows down the rate at which the virus grows. Neither of these putative roles prevents or protects against infection.

Traditional anti-biotics have a much easier job killing bacterial infections/diseases, since the cell division at the base of bacterial infections requires a kind of "cellular eclipse", with a number of factors having to line up in order for successful division to occur, with all genetic information of that bacterium successfully transmitted to each of the daughter cells. There are many ways to interfere with cellular division. Not being cells, per se, viruses are trickier to completely interfere with. That is why we can eliminate all sorts of microbe-based diseases, but still have a helluva time curing the common cold.

I was happy to see that Metformin is one of those drugs under study, since I have to take a bunch of it twice daily.

If one follows the link in the NYT article to the published paper, there are 91 authors listed as involved. As is often the case in biomedical research, your name gets tacked onto the authorship if the lead researchers had to use some equipment in your lab that they don't have. But that's the sort of thing that turns a study with 4 principle investigators into 8-10 names on the _published_ paper. Even with that caveat, it's a very big crew of people. I will note that the journal site says "*This article is a preprint and has not been certified by peer review*". Although, given the number of people attached to the paper, I'm not so sure where they're going to find reviewers who _weren't_ in the list of authors!

But as always, one needs to identify the circumstances under which any such potentially beneficial effects of any of these compounds would occur, or be contraindicated. As a has been noted, elderly persons and those with "underlying health conditions" are most likely to be seriously affected by the virus. Such persons are also likely taking something for that underlying health condition. One always starts out testing a drug in patients (or animals) without any contaminating/confounding conditions. Only after you see that it has a desirable effect does one commence seeing what else it might interact with in undesirable ways.

If you were pregnant, or were trying to have a child, and the drug was known to pose a high risk of the baby being born with their heart outside their chest cavity, or if there was a high risk of strokes, given other medications you had to take, would any such drug be viewed as a godsend? That is why Fauci has to keep telling the public (and president) to hold up at second base, and not make a dash for 3rd and home, because no one knows yet if you're going to get tagged out or score a run.


----------



## Electraglide

knight_yyz said:


> Is Everclear sold in Canada?


It is, or at least was in B.C. and Ab. I do believe Calgary has some.
Everclear Grain Alcohol 190 Proof (95% abv) – Craft Cellars | Beer Wine Spirits


----------



## vadsy

Milkman said:


> I recommend weed.
> 
> Yeah, I know, but it sure helps me with depression and other issues.


hopefully you don't come to regret the choice given your concern with your new condition


----------



## JazzyT

Electraglide said:


> Possibly. Especially in parts of the states. Wouldn't do any good but it could happen. They say in quebec now, no gatherings of more than 2 people.....families exempt. I guess that rules out manage a trois.


On a related note, I wonder if births will spike nine months from now.


----------



## Milkman

vadsy said:


> hopefully you don't come to regret the choice given your concern with your new condition


Yes, you're quite right. It is a concern I have. My lungs are not great and my smoking is not helpful in that respect.

If only I could get the same or similar effects by eating or vaping.


----------



## vadsy

well, whatever you do. continue to post your concerns here and 'I'm in that category..' but don't attempt any lifestyle changes. that would be silly


----------



## Electraglide

JazzyT said:


> On a related note, I wonder if births will spike nine months from now.


If people go with the 2 meter rule, I don't think so. 


Milkman said:


> Yes, you're quite right. It is a concern I have. My lungs are not great and my smoking is not helpful in that respect.
> 
> If only I could get the same or similar effects by eating or vaping.


From what I've seen and read vaping is as bad if not worse than regular smoking. I've stood next to people smoking cigs or joints with no adverse affects to my breathing.....stand next to someone vaping and I am liable to cough. I might have stopped smoking anything but on occasion a second hand buzz is nice. That being said I know people who have modified the older type electronic smoking devices to use with Hash and oil. Seems to work quite well. I'd say brownies are your best bet as long as they don't screw up your diet. 
How to Smoke Weed in a Vaporizer
Give it a try, see what happens.


----------



## Milkman

Electraglide said:


> If people go with the 2 meter rule, I don't think so.
> 
> From what I've seen and read vaping is as bad if not worse than regular smoking. I've stood next to people smoking cigs or joints with no adverse affects to my breathing.....stand next to someone vaping and I am liable to cough. I might have stopped smoking anything but on occasion a second hand buzz is nice. That being said I know people who have modified the older type electronic smoking devices to use with Hash and oil. Seems to work quite well. I'd say brownies are your best bet as long as they don't screw up your diet.
> How to Smoke Weed in a Vaporizer
> Give it a try, see what happens.


Have tried both edibles and dry herb vaporizers. Neither are the same as smoking at all.

I smoke very small doses of very potent herb to minimize the impact, but there's still impact.

The pros outweigh the cons in fairly dramatic fashion. Those close to me would testify to that.


----------



## Lincoln

Electraglide said:


> At 70% alcohol, probably. Beats this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and is about the same % as this.


I knew a guy that drank Aqua Velva every morning to cover up the stink from the night before. Great guy, but a hopeless drunk. Drank till he passed out, every night.

Last I heard of him was a news story in the paper. He was firing a pistol in a school ground, in the middle of the night. Shooting at UFO's.


----------



## boyscout

Here's something that goes against the stream.

A respected epidemiologist at Stanford University questions predictions of the eventual spread of Covid-19, the fatality rates being ascribed to it, and some of the measures being employed to combat its spread.

Error - Cookies Turned Off


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## Electraglide

Lincoln said:


> I knew a guy that drank Aqua Velva every morning to cover up the stink from the night before. Great guy, but a hopeless drunk. Drank till he passed out, every night.
> 
> Last I heard of him was a news story in the paper. He was firing a pistol in a school ground, in the middle of the night. Shooting at UFO's.


Years back it was mixed with cheap wine.....50/50.....to enhance the buzz. Toss in some Vanilla extract and some Lysol to level things out.


----------



## Dorian2

boyscout said:


> Here's something that goes against the stream.
> 
> A respected epidemiologist at Stanford University questions predictions of the eventual spread of Covid-19, the fatality rates being ascribed to it, and some of the measures being employed to combat its spread.
> 
> Error - Cookies Turned Off


Yeah....that was published Feb 27 before the shit hit the fan in Europe. Probably needs some editing and changing since that point. It did say it was the unedited version as well. Be interesting to see the final result. Is there a "Version of Record"?


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## tomee2

It's a submittal, most likely won't be published in a any respectable peer reviewed journal. 
There actually are "fake" research journals, and conferences, where crap like this gets published.


----------



## Wardo

Electraglide said:


> .....stand next to someone vaping and I am liable to cough.


I notice that as well - one of my clerks used to go outside to make clouds and when she came back in the residual on her from vaping was enough to make cough.


----------



## boyscout

Dorian2 said:


> Yeah....that was published Feb 27 before the shit hit the fan in Europe. Probably needs some editing and changing since that point. It did say it was the unedited version as well. Be interesting to see the final result. Is there a "Version of Record"?


I got it from here:

Error - Cookies Turned Off

... which says it was published March 19th. Can you find a Version of Record?


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## mhammer

Interesting paper. It actually restates a number of things I've been saying here, like you can't provide a true estimate of the mortality rate just yet, since actual testing has been insufficient, to establish an infection baseline. He's also right in that with so much focus on this one threat, we tend to ignore many other serious sources of risk. I think the author, while correct and rational on a great many counts, is reacting to the more sensationalized accounts he has seen in newsmedia, which is often not the best and most informed source of scientific and medical information, as media organizations have trimmed back on staff and specialized reporting

There is also the not insignificant matter of the "epidemiological truth" of something, and what it takes to motivate the public and officials to respond appropriately to that truth. I understand how irksome it is for a science guy to see the popular misrepresentation of facts, and exaggeration of public health challenges. Those kids twisting the night away on Florida beaches are obviously not motivated by a straightforward presentation of the facts.

As he astutely notes: "Evidence is lacking for the most aggressive measures. A systematic review on measures to prevent the spread of respiratory viruses found insufficient evidence for entry port screening and social distancing in reducing epidemic spreading. Plain hygienic measures have the strongest evidence. Frequent hand washing and staying at home and avoiding contacts when sick are probably very useful. Their routine endorsement may save many lives."

At the same time as the paper is a bit on the contrarian side, I must emphasize that the author is most certainly NOT adopting the Trumpian view that it will be over as soon as warm weather arrives, "like a miracle". He's not a whiner, or an unrepentant contrarian; he just wants folks to see things as they are, not as they are tarted up to be, for either clickbait or campaign points.

Meanwhile, the body count in Italy is depressingly high (6077), and perplexingly high in the US, relative to Canada (522 vs 23 dead). Either we're doing something right, or they're doing something wrong. Pretty much throughout the last few weeks, death rate per capita in the USA has been about twice that of Canada. I don't get it.
Coronavirus Update (Live): 375,438 Cases and 16,365 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer


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## colchar

davetcan said:


> Admission standards = $$$



Lack of admission standards equal money. So long as you have the money for tuition, Brock will accept you and grades be damned.


----------



## boyscout

mhammer said:


> Meanwhile, the body count in Italy is depressingly high (6077), and perplexingly high in the US, relative to Canada (522 vs 23 dead). Either we're doing something right, or they're doing something wrong. Pretty much throughout the last few weeks, death rate per capita in the USA has been about twice that of Canada. I don't get it.
> 
> Coronavirus Update (Live): 375,438 Cases and 16,365 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer


I think I reported this in the other Covid-19 thread in Politics rather than here; sorry if it's a repeat here.

So many people have been sent home from work in Florida that there's a very noticeable increase (at least double, according to my source) in boat traffic along the Atlantic coast. Some counties - not the state - imposed closures on bars and restaurants and group gatherings so many people have taken their partying offshore, partying on their boats or partying in large numbers on the sandbars offshore. As a result, some counties have recently announced legal "stay in place" orders. Not the big response that may be required, but a start.

Meanwhile, my source tells me, flights from New York City into West Palm Beach are unabated. New York City has the highest concentration of infections in the world, about 5% of the global total.

THAT'S the kind of thinking that is leading to higher numbers in the U.S.... the answer to the perplexing question is "they're doing something wrong".


----------



## davetcan

colchar said:


> Lack of admission standards equal money. So long as you have the money for tuition, Brock will accept you and grades be damned.


That was my point.


----------



## colchar

mhammer said:


> I think the word "combat" needs some unpacking.



No, it didn't - especially not with a post with a word count approximating that of an average undergraduate essay for fuck sakes.


----------



## 10409

Hey, Montreal strip clubs are closing. I hate being wrong.


----------



## tdotrob

JazzyT said:


> "I used to smoke a lot of weed. I still do, but I used to, as well."


Mitch Hedburg!!


----------



## colchar

Mayor Crombie has announced the closure of all parks in Mississauga in large part due to the video I posted about earlier today.

Toronto has declared a state of emergency, but are keeping safe injection sites open because, you know, facilitating junkies getting their fix of illegal drugs is essential to the running of the city. Fucking idiots.


----------



## Grainslayer

butterknucket said:


> I'm not worried one bit.





jdto said:


> Meh. It’s more about clicks on news sites than an actual threat


Lol


----------



## mhammer

colchar said:


> No, it didn't - especially not with a post with a word count approximating that of an average undergraduate essay for fuck sakes.


What the hell is your problem? "Combat" is a very ambiguous term.

Meanwhile, just heard an "interesting" and dismaying interview with a trucker on _As It Happens_. Boy, I thought *we* had it tough. At least we have bathrooms. Rest stops for truckers have been shut down. No public restrooms. The guy said he'd been "living on chips and chocolate" for the last few days because restaurants are closed, drive-thrus can't accommodate trucks, and they wouldn't serve anyone just walking up to the window.

So just how the hell are the rest of us supposed to be able to get food and supplies if the folks trucking it to us can't find a place to take a dump or a wizz, and can't get a meal?


----------



## tdotrob

keto said:


> Kinda surprised Kenney didn't announce same in his presser just now. But Alberta so far seems to have a decent handle on things, I will say.


If anyone listened to Dr. Hinshaw presser today it would be safe to say Alberta might have a decent handle on this.

She spoke of their efforts that were happening before all these measures to expand testing capacity in labs across multiple departments which including ordering new equipment, which some has already arrived and some they are still awaiting delivery, and advice they sought to focus their testing strategy and how they implemented it. It was impressive to listen to.


----------



## colchar

tomee2 said:


> It's a submittal, most likely won't be published in a any respectable peer reviewed journal.
> There actually are "fake" research journals, and conferences, where crap like this gets published.


He is legit, and is engaged in a debate about this with someone out east (Harvard?).


----------



## mhammer

Took them long enough, but the IOC now says the Olympics will be postponed.

Tokyo 2020 Olympics postponed to 2021 due to coronavirus, report says


----------



## colchar

mhammer said:


> What the hell is your problem? "Combat" is a very ambiguous term.


No it is not. To combat something is to fight it, not eradicate it (cure it). Pretty sure evryone here is smart enough to have figured that out without your honours thesis on the subject.


----------



## mhammer

tomee2 said:


> It's a submittal, most likely won't be published in a any respectable peer reviewed journal.
> There actually are "fake" research journals, and conferences, where crap like this gets published.


As the document says at the bottom:
"_This article has been accepted for publication and undergone full peer review but has not been through the copy-editing, typesetting, pagination and proofreading process, which may lead to differences between this version and the Version of Record._"

Although there are third and 4th-tier journals that will publish any nonsense for money, Wiley publishes many major journals in many fields.


----------



## mhammer

colchar said:


> No it is not. To combat something is to fight it, not eradicate it (cure it). Pretty sure evryone here is smart enough to have figured that out without your honours thesis on the subject.


And there is simply *one *single way to "fight" something? Yeesh.


----------



## Dorian2

boyscout said:


> I got it from here:
> 
> Error - Cookies Turned Off
> 
> ... which says it was published March 19th. Can you find a Version of Record?


Oh...OK. I just looked at the first page of the original link. Thanks.


----------



## boyscout

My "niece-in-law" just reported that her (Canadian) parents are on one of the cruise ships floating offshore because no port will let them land.

There are 42 people on the ship exhibiting symptoms, but the ship has no means for testing them for Covid-19.

Her parents are firmly in the at-risk cohort.


----------



## Dorian2

colchar said:


> No it is not. To combat something is to fight it, not eradicate it (cure it). Pretty sure evryone here is smart enough to have figured that out without your honours thesis on the subject.


Holy shit man. Did all those big words set you off or something? Relax.


----------



## 10409

Error - Cookies Turned Off

Here’s an article they published about using essential oils to cure vd


----------



## tdotrob

boyscout said:


> I think I reported this in the other Covid-19 thread in Politics rather than here; sorry if it's a repeat here.
> 
> ".


There is a forum called politics with another Covid thread? Secret society?


----------



## 10409

But if we’re discrediting organizations for being wrong we’re gonna need to replace a lot of tv personalities that had something to say 2 weeks ago


----------



## allthumbs56

mike_oxbig said:


> Hey, Montreal strip clubs are closing. I hate being wrong.


I hear they're doing take-out.


----------



## allthumbs56

tdotrob said:


> There is a forum called politics with another Covid thread? Secret society?


There is. Check the thread at the top of this forum for details on access if you're interested. Or click here ......

A little politics anyone?


----------



## cdntac

allthumbs56 said:


> I hear they're doing take-out.


Turning lemons into lemonade...

Portland strip club forced to close, so dancers now do delivery


----------



## mhammer

boyscout said:


> My "niece-in-law" just reported that her (Canadian) parents are on one of the cruise ships floating offshore because no port will let them land.
> 
> There are 42 people on the ship exhibiting symptoms, but the ship has no means for testing them for Covid-19.
> 
> Her parents are firmly in the at-risk cohort.


I've never been partial to cruises, because they just struck me as a kind of floating detention hall. The thought of being away from my electronic projects, and of facing a buffet of things I can't eat, and having to hide from the sun (I only burn, not tan), was not much of an incentive either.

But the problems that arise when something breaks out on a ship are probably giving a lot more people than myself pause for thought about whether cruises are a good idea. A ferry ride from Cape Breton to Argentia, or Nanaimo to Horseshoe Bay? Sure thing. Three weeks on a boat that turns into a few months? Not so much.

I would hope that there is some means to helicopter test kits and other supplies to the ship. Alternatively, let folks land and isolate/quarantine them.


----------



## tomee2

mhammer said:


> As the document says at the bottom:
> "_This article has been accepted for publication and undergone full peer review but has not been through the copy-editing, typesetting, pagination and proofreading process, which may lead to differences between this version and the Version of Record._"
> 
> Although there are third and 4th-tier journals that will publish any nonsense for money, Wiley publishes many major journals in many fields.


I couldn't read it to the end so I missed that.


----------



## mhammer

mike_oxbig said:


> Error - Cookies Turned Off
> 
> Here’s an article they published about using essential oils to cure vd


Um, it's a little more involved than that. Take a boo at this: Error - Cookies Turned Off



tomee2 said:


> I couldn't read it to the end so I missed that.


Bottom of the first page. Though if one is not accustomed to reading preprints of journal papers, it would understandably not be a reflex to look there. It happens. No harm. No foul.


----------



## laristotle

Kijiji has stated that ads like this will be pulled and banned.

Masks for TRADE not for sale | Guitars | City of Toronto | Kijiji

_I will trade 2 maybe 3 boxes of masks for a accoustic guitar or bass Also open to semi-accoustic guitar 
This is not a scam you need masks to get through this i have masks i need a guitar to pass the time through this...even trade....i am a superintendent i can not leave my property as i am an essential service 
So pick up is my only option..sorry_


----------



## boyscout

tdotrob said:


> There is a forum called politics with another Covid thread? Secret society?


shhh!


----------



## jdto

Grainslayer said:


> Lol


I was wrong. It does happen, from time to time. I know more about the situation now than I did two months ago when I made that post.


----------



## keto

jdto said:


> I was wrong. It does happen, from time to time. I know more about the situation now than I did two months ago when I made that post.


The first few pages of this thread do make for somewhat interesting reading tho, with hindsight being 20/20.


----------



## jdto

keto said:


> The first few pages of this thread do make for somewhat interesting reading tho, with hindsight being 20/20.


Fair. I initially wasn’t too worried about this back in January when I didn’t really know much about it. Once I got more informed, I changed my outlook. But yeah, two months ago, I didn't think it was gonna be big. Now I know I was wrong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Doug Gifford

These youthful gatherers and the even worse sneezers-at-geezers and cough on the produce punks. I think they know full well what they're doing. For some, "full well" is a faint flicker because they're just dim. Some, though, are perfectly happy to commit gerocide. And maybe they can justify it to themselves as a cleansing -- their world needs to breath and we're just toxic baggage. Coronavirus aside, just look what we're leaving them… if I was eighteen I'd be absolutely furious. Maybe us old 'uns are being put out on an ice floe.


----------



## allthumbs56

Doug Gifford said:


> These youthful gatherers and the even worse sneezers-at-geezers and cough on the produce punks. I think they know full well what they're doing. For some, "full well" is a faint flicker because they're just dim. Some, though, are perfectly happy to commit gerocide. And maybe they can justify it to themselves as a cleansing -- their world needs to breath and we're just toxic baggage. Coronavirus aside, just look what we're leaving them… if I was eighteen I'd be absolutely furious. Maybe us old 'uns are being put out on an ice floe.


I hear you. What I don't get is that I loved my parents and miss them daily. I would never have wished them gone. My grandparents either.

What changed? Have we been that poor at raising our children?


----------



## Doug Gifford

allthumbs56 said:


> I hear you. What I don't get is that I loved my parents and miss them daily. I would never have wished them gone. My grandparents either.
> 
> What changed? Have we been that poor at raising our children?


I don't think anything has changed in the potential of our children for good or evil. Just context. Look at the actions of many people of our own generation. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.


----------



## Wardo

Doug Gifford said:


> .. sneezers-at-geezers and cough on the produce punks...


Leaving my office building last Friday and noticed that someone had spit on the latch for the main exit door - anyone tries intentionally coughing at me I'm big enough and ugly enough and short tempered enough to put my fist through their face before I even think about it.



Doug Gifford said:


> .. just look what we're leaving them… if I was eighteen I'd be absolutely furious.


To bad so sad. When I was about 18 my mother told me I'd be one step up the ladder in life when I realized that no one gave a damn about me - fair enough. So I ended up driving a truck to save the money to get myself through a B.A. and a three year professional degree after that.

You say that you got no chance uh huh.
Just a victim of your circumstance uh huh.
Helpless hopeless heartless so it seems.
Someone's steppin on your precious dreams.
Get up off the floor boy.


----------



## jb welder

knight_yyz said:


> Self isolation means you can go out and do your shopping banking etc and walking the dog. Just stay away from other people.


I'm not sure which context you mean this in.
If your are self-isolating 'under order' (like those required to do so because they returned from international travel, etc.), then no, you are not allowed to go shopping, banking, out in public, etc.
Someone who is required to self-isolate and does not do so is subject to the fines or criminal charges that are applicable.
The woman who was arrested in Quebec city was under order to 'self-isolate' and went out in public.

I'm not sure what context @vadsy meant in his question about self-isolating either.


----------



## laristotle

allthumbs56 said:


> What changed? Have we been that poor at raising our children?


If, by we, you mean parents, then no.
The indoctrination of children by schools are to blame. Plenty of discussion about it in the political forum, if you wish to venture in.
https://guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/modern-educators-failing-to-educate.211305/


----------



## Rick31797

It’s been on the news about the princess cruise ship, they found the coronavirus was still on surfaces 17 days ...This makes me think about the mail and packages we receive...might be best to wear gloves and keep hands clean..


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> What the hell is your problem? "Combat" is a very ambiguous term.
> 
> Meanwhile, just heard an "interesting" and dismaying interview with a trucker on _As It Happens_. Boy, I thought *we* had it tough. At least we have bathrooms. Rest stops for truckers have been shut down. No public restrooms. The guy said he'd been "living on chips and chocolate" for the last few days because restaurants are closed, drive-thrus can't accommodate trucks, and they wouldn't serve anyone just walking up to the window.
> 
> So just how the hell are the rest of us supposed to be able to get food and supplies if the folks trucking it to us can't find a place to take a dump or a wizz, and can't get a meal?


If you see a trucker by the side of the road near say a MacD's, drive thru the drive thru for him and buy him a meal, with as much coffee and napkins as they'll let you have. When you give it too him, say Thank You. If he holds out his hand you better shake it. If you ask for money after you give him the coffee and meal then you're no better than those people hoarding and selling masks in a park.


----------



## Electraglide

colchar said:


> No it is not. To combat something is to fight it, not eradicate it (cure it). Pretty sure evryone here is smart enough to have figured that out without your honours thesis on the subject.


Not always.

_"verb_
verb: *combat*; 3rd person present: *combats*; past tense: *combated*; past participle: *combated*; gerund or present participle: *combating*; past tense: *combatted*; past participle: *combatted*; gerund or present participle: *combatting*
/kəmˈbat,ˈkämˌbat/
take action to reduce or prevent (something bad or undesirable)."
To cure a disease means reducing and preventing it.


----------



## mhammer

> If you see a trucker by the side of the road near say a MacD's, drive thru the drive thru for him and buy him a meal, with as much coffee and napkins as they'll let you have. When you give it too him, say Thank You. If he holds out his hand you better shake it. If you ask for money after you give him the coffee and meal then you're no better than those people hoarding and selling masks in a park.


Well said. Knowing what I know now, if I was in any sort of position to do that, I'd do it. But the very intermittent quick trips to the nearby suburban supermarket don't really lend themselves to it. Perhaps other folks here who live closer to highways can follow your lead.

And maybe the folks who operate drive-up food places can smarten up too.

That's the trouble with hastily-produced policies: They always end up being shaped around the situations that the developers manage to think about, and end up ignoring the stuff that didn't pop into their heads automatically because it's another kind of life.

Do I understand why supermarkets and fast food places have closed their public rest-rooms? Sure. With the toilet paper aisles currently empty, you just know that _someone_ is going to swipe that big industrial-size roll, because they can't find any anywhere else, and that one is a freebie. And unless Burger King is going to provide haz-mat suits for the employees to go in and clean up the washroom, that's a contagion tragedy just waiting to happen. Truckers may be able to piss into an empty pop bottle, or stop by some bushes, but they need somewhere to take a dump so they can concentrate on the road. So if you have to stick a security guard at the rest stop, so truckers can do what the rest of us have full freedom to do, DO IT. Hell, some of those truckers are bringing shipments of TP for the rest of us, god bless 'em.


----------



## Electraglide

allthumbs56 said:


> I hear they're doing take-out.


But you have to pay. No walking to the window.


----------



## keto

Electraglide said:


> But you have to pay. No walking to the window.


usually via an app these days, connected to a ccard or other virtual payment. Pick up at the front door. Don't tell me truckers don't have phones  

I sympathise about the cans tho, my sister in law's best friend is a driver and told her about having to drop trou in a parking lot for lack of options.


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> Well said. Knowing what I know now, if I was in any sort of position to do that, I'd do it. But the very intermittent quick trips to the nearby suburban supermarket don't really lend themselves to it. Perhaps other folks here who live closer to highways can follow your lead.
> 
> And maybe the folks who operate drive-up food places can smarten up too.
> 
> That's the trouble with hastily-produced policies: They always end up being shaped around the situations that the developers manage to think about, and end up ignoring the stuff that didn't pop into their heads automatically because it's another kind of life.


If you pull up next to a truck at a light and you say have a pack of 24 rolls of TP, lean on your horn, get out of your vehicle and toss them a roll. It will be appreciated. It could be a him or her.


----------



## Electraglide

keto said:


> usually via an app these days, connected to a ccard or other virtual payment. Pick up at the front door. Don't tell me truckers don't have phones
> 
> I sympathise about the cans tho, my sister in law's best friend is a driver and told her about having to drop trou in a parking lot for lack of options.


They do but it's still is nice to show your appreciation tho. The closest MacD's to me is close to a cop shop and there always seems to be at least one car in the parking lot and at the A&W across the street. Dropping trou in that lot is usually not an option, day or night.


----------



## vadsy

Manhattan looks grand


----------



## Dorian2

^^ Damn. That's spectacular.


----------



## torndownunit

mhammer said:


> I've never been partial to cruises, because they just struck me as a kind of floating detention hall. The thought of being away from my electronic projects, and of facing a buffet of things I can't eat, and having to hide from the sun (I only burn, not tan), was not much of an incentive either.
> 
> But the problems that arise when something breaks out on a ship are probably giving a lot more people than myself pause for thought about whether cruises are a good idea. A ferry ride from Cape Breton to Argentia, or Nanaimo to Horseshoe Bay? Sure thing. Three weeks on a boat that turns into a few months? Not so much.
> 
> I would hope that there is some means to helicopter test kits and other supplies to the ship. Alternatively, let folks land and isolate/quarantine them.


Cruise ships have breakouts of various viruses and infections on them quite often. But in this case it's a virus that spreads much easier and quicker, and in a perfect breeding ground. I've never even considered a cruise ship as far as any vacation plans well before this happened.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

List of places that MUST close tonight at midnight in Ontario has been released. It's not a long list. There are more things considered "essential" than I thought there would be.


----------



## laristotle

Jim DaddyO said:


> There are more things considered "essential" than I thought there would be.


In it's entirety

The Ontario government's list of essential businesses

_Ontario’s list of essential businesses that are not required to close is long and extensive.

Here is a summary of what is covered:

— Supply chain operations: Any business that allows others to operate by supplying, “systems or services, including processing, packaging, distribution, delivery and maintenance.”

— Retail operations that supply essentials: This includes grocery stores, supermarkets, convenience stores, pet food and animal supplies operations, beer, wine and liquor stores and alcohol producers as well as cannabis retailers and producers.

— Transportation essentials: Gas stations, diesel, propane and heating fuel providers including providers of motor vehicle, aircraft and water/marine craft fuels, auto-supply, auto and motor-vehicle-repair.

— Other retail: Everything from hardware stores to office supply operations and safety supply stores that sell work clothes and personal protective equipment.

— Hospitality: Restaurants remain exempt from closure if they provide take-out or delivery options. Hotels, motels and student residences are also exempt.

— Maintenance: Cleaning services, sprinkler, HVAC, escalator and elevator technicians. Building engineers, property management services, plumbers, electricians and security services.

— Media and telecommunications: Newspapers, radio and TV operations. Businesses providing or supporting IT services and telecommunications services such as phone, internet, radio, cell phones.

–Transportation: Taxis or other such services, trucking services that facilitate trade, businesses that provide materials and services for the operation, maintenance and safety of transportation systems including road, transit, rail, air and marine.

— Manufacturing: Businesses that extract, manufacture, process and distribute goods, products, equipment and materials, including businesses that support and facilitate the two-way movement of essential goods within integrated North American and global supply chains.

— Agriculture: Businesses that farm, harvest, process, manufacture, produce or distribute food as well as those that support the agricultural sector.

— Construction: Most construction projects in the province will continue including those dealing with health care, transportation, industrial and residential sectors.

— Finance: The Toronto Stock Exchange, the banking sector, insurance, employee pension and benefit plans will all continue.

— Health care: This includes hospitals, doctors offices, labs, manufacturers, wholesalers, distributors and retailers of pharmaceutical products and medical supplies._


----------



## sulphur

Mining and their suppliers is included in there too.

They covered everything except nail salons and clothing stores. Open for business!


----------



## Milkman




----------



## knight_yyz




----------



## knight_yyz

Fucking moron contractors....
NO masks NO safety harness


----------



## knight_yyz

Oops. Double post


----------



## Milkman

knight_yyz said:


> Fucking moron contractors....
> NO masks NO safety harness
> View attachment 301196



It's fine. That sheet of plywood is holding up the steel beam.


----------



## Chito

So Trump and some state governors are thinking of stopping the physical distancing and self isolation and just let the virus take its course. It will be a nightmare if they do that.


----------



## Milkman

Chito said:


> So Trump and some state governors are thinking of stopping the physical distancing and self isolation and just let the virus take its course. It will be a nightmare if they do that.


Yup, and of course, money is starting to "trump" public safety.

Sure the governors are all implementing what they call strong measures, and yet they declare auto assembly an essential service? Yeah, essential to keeping the money (and virus) circulating.

In Ontario we consider booze and weed essential?

I'm hearing a fair bit of lip service but not much in the way of biting the bullet.


----------



## guitarman2

Milkman said:


> Yup, and of course, money is starting to "trump" public safety.
> 
> Sure the governors are all implementing what they call strong measures, and yet they declare auto assembly an essential service? Yeah, essential to keeping the money (and virus) circulating.
> 
> In Ontario we consider booze and weed essential?
> 
> I'm hearing a fair bit of lip service but not much in the way of biting the bullet.


If its true Trump decides to "let it take its course", are you going to continue traveling down there for business, if you haven't stopped already?


----------



## Milkman

guitarman2 said:


> If its true Trump decides to "let it take its course", are you going to continue traveling down there for business, if you haven't stopped already?


I stopped travelling in January. Right now we're working from home and may continue that for another two weeks. If Trump makes another A-hole move (only a matter of time really) I will have to judge accordingly. Right now we're not traveling at all.


----------



## jb welder

Guitar101 said:


> I hope there doing well. I may be wrong but I think you may be able to get blood from your brother or son when they have built up antibodies against the virus. That would be like you getting the vaccine.





cdntac said:


> I really don’t know if this was posted as a joke but if not, congratulations. You’ve officially posted the most stupid thing I’ve read on message boards about this virus.


It's not like a vaccine, but may help treat the disease. Maybe not so stupid.
They did it for the 1918 flu, and they're going to start trials for treating Covid-19 in New York:

New York state plans to treat severe coronavirus patients with a 100-year-old blood therapy, which uses the plasma of recovered patients


----------



## High/Deaf

Wardo said:


> Leaving my office building last Friday and noticed that someone had spit on the latch for the main exit door - anyone tries intentionally coughing at me I'm big enough and ugly enough and short tempered enough to put my fist through their face before I even think about it.


'sall goodman. Just remember to wash your hands afterwards. WASH YOUR HANDS.


Both to stop the spread of the virus -------- and to remove any evidence. When was "Wash your hands" not the answer?


----------



## High/Deaf

Chito said:


> So Trump and some state governors are thinking of stopping the physical distancing and self isolation and just let the virus take its course. It will be a nightmare if they do that.


WOW. That would be cray-cray. 

The real problem isn't the spread of the virus - it will be fairly widespread, IMO. It is really about how quickly people get sick, the leading edge of the bell curve. If 10% of the population get very sick in 1 week's time, the health care system of any country will be decimated. Just ask your Italian or Spanish friends.

I'd rather have a week of 1 meter high waves constantly rolling in than one 10 meter high wave roll on through.


----------



## tomee2

Milkman said:


> ......
> 
> In Ontario we consider booze and weed essential?
> .....


I questioned it, but my wife reminded me what happens when alcholholics stop drinking. It's sad, but I guess there are more people dependent on booze then we really know.


----------



## sulphur

High/Deaf said:


> WOW. That would be cray-cray.
> 
> The real problem isn't the spread of the virus - it will be fairly widespread, IMO. It is really about how quickly people get sick, the leading edge of the bell curve. If 10% of the population get very sick in 1 week's time, the health care system of any country will be decimated. Just ask your Italian or Spanish friends.
> 
> I'd rather have a week of 1 meter high waves constantly rolling in than one 10 meter high wave roll on through.


I'm sure the healthcare system, what they have of one, would appreciate that too.

Speaking of which, there's a woman that got a $35000 bill after her covid-19 treatment in the US.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

sulphur said:


> They covered everything except nail salons and clothing stores.


Yes, with all the exceptions it does look like there has been little to no change.


----------



## Sneaky

guitarman2 said:


> If its true Trump decides to "let it take its course", are you going to continue traveling down there for business, if you haven't stopped already?


I stopped travelling to the US in November 2016.


----------



## laristotle

sulphur said:


> They covered everything except nail salons and clothing stores





Jim DaddyO said:


> Yes, with all the exceptions it does look like there has been little to no change.


----------



## vadsy

Sneaky said:


> I stopped travelling to the US in November 2016.


Unfortunately, everyone else did not. I get an eerie feeling just driving by the airport these days, would hate to think where my mind would go if I had to work there surrounded by samples of the global community


----------



## sulphur




----------



## boyscout

boyscout said:


> Meanwhile, my source tells me, flights from New York City into West Palm Beach are unabated. New York City has the highest concentration of infections in the world, about 5% of the global total. THAT'S the kind of thinking that is leading to higher numbers in the U.S.... the answer to the perplexing question is "they're doing something wrong".


Florida officials have just announced that passengers on flights from New York City will be required to quarantine themselves - let's hope they take it more seriously than some Floridians have taken other measures.

Meanwhile, New York City is starting to go nuclear, highest infection rates in the U.S.


----------



## knight_yyz

Wow... 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10162946690225447


----------



## boyscout

laristotle said:


> The Ontario government's list of essential businesses
> _
> — Retail operations that supply essentials: This includes grocery stores, supermarkets, convenience stores, pet food and animal supplies operations, *beer, wine and liquor stores and alcohol producers as well as cannabis retailers and producers*._


There's already been sneering and questioning by a few people in this forum about these remaining open.

Do we want already-stressed medical systems to be confronted with waves of alcoholics and other substance abusers forced to cold-turkey withdraw because their supplies have been eliminated? For many of them, the physical and mental effects of withdrawal are absolutely real and often serious enough to require medical treatment.

Very disappointed that coffee shops didn't make the list of essentials... no fresh beans?! Obviously a very hastily-compiled list!


----------



## boyscout

knight_yyz said:


> Wow...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10162946690225447


No longer available. What did it say?


----------



## knight_yyz

Let me try again

www.facebook.com/632970446/posts/10162946690225447/?sfnsn=mo&d=n&vh=i


----------



## boyscout

knight_yyz said:


> Let me try again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10162946690225447


Same, can't see it.


----------



## knight_yyz

Try again I removed the annoying https string


----------



## Milkman

nope


knight_yyz said:


> Try again I removed the annoying https string


Maybe one needs a facebook account to see it?


----------



## knight_yyz

Yup sorry I can't find the original post


----------



## vadsy

knight_yyz said:


> Yup sorry I can't find the original post


Probably wasn’t important


----------



## knight_yyz




----------



## sulphur

I knew it...


----------



## High/Deaf

A good expose on the problem from Australia. If this pandemic doesn't kill us, maybe the next one will. Or the one after that. As a society, we have the knowledge to stop this, but will the PC mentality win out instead? 30 minutes, but definitely worth a watch if you want to understand the source better, IMO.


----------



## spacebard

sulphur said:


> I knew it...


That cat was eaten by a chinese afterward and we know the rest of the story...


----------



## spacebard

sulphur said:


>



Pretty sure the cockhead haircut will create even more social distancing


----------



## boyscout

knight_yyz said:


>


Fake. All those germ-unprotected officers moving in to hold him down and arrest him for not being locked down? No chance. Is it even in Italy?

This is video of some other unnecessarily-brutal police incident, recycled.


----------



## colchar

boyscout said:


> There's already been sneering and questioning by a few people in this forum about these remaining open.
> 
> Do we want already-stressed medical systems to be confronted with waves of alcoholics and other substance abusers forced to cold-turkey withdraw because their supplies have been eliminated? For many of them, the physical and mental effects of withdrawal are absolutely real and often serious enough to require medical treatment.



And that was exactly the justification I heard yesterday, not from the government but from one of the medical professionals advising them and helping to draw up this list.


----------



## 10409

You can tell it’s true because it looks just like the news


----------



## 10409

Hopefully this is the last checkmate for those ignorant but saved by herd immunity


----------



## colchar

I haven't been feeling well for a couple of days and currently have 6 out of the 8 symptoms listed by the WHO...........................................


----------



## Distortion

suppose to call your family doctor and if not available tele health


----------



## jimsz

Just worked out the finances from all the gigs that got cancelled on me this year so far and it looks like I'm going to save over $500.


----------



## Milkman

jimsz said:


> Just worked out the finances from all the gigs that got cancelled on me this year so far and it looks like I'm going to save over $500.



Couldn't have been many gigs.


(good one)


----------



## RBlakeney

jimsz said:


> Just worked out the finances from all the gigs that got cancelled on me this year so far and it looks like I'm going to save over $500.


----------



## Sneaky

colchar said:


> I haven't been feeling well for a couple of days and currently have 6 out of the 8 symptoms listed by the WHO...........................................


Hopefully that’s like getting 6 of the 8 numbers in the lotto.


----------



## mhammer

colchar said:


> I haven't been feeling well for a couple of days and currently have 6 out of the 8 symptoms listed by the WHO...........................................


That's not good. If you can get tested, certainly do.


----------



## jb welder

knight_yyz said:


>


That's funny and I hate to ruin it  , but...

Leg Sweep From Hell: Brazilian authorities take down alleged knife-wielding man


----------



## jb welder

High/Deaf said:


> As a society, we have the knowledge to stop this, but will the PC mentality win out instead?


It seems to be neck and neck between 'PC Principal' and the young libertarians who think it's up to them whether to exercise any precautions. 
Either way we all lose.


----------



## keto

jb welder said:


> It seems to be neck and neck between 'PC Principal' and the young libertarians who think it's up to them whether to exercise any precautions.
> Either way we all lose.


Save everyone possible, at the expense of the economy and a ton of long term suffering caused by economic fallout, where ultimately flatter curve means roughly equal deaths anyways, or let it run it's course and take more pain in a shorter time, but less long term. Sounds heartless, logic often does. 

Not stating a position, nor is the logical answer always the right one.


----------



## colchar

I just checked. Because my fever has gone down (for now) I don't think I meet the criteria for being tested as outlined here (taken from the William Osler Health Centre webpage):


Any person who meets the following will be assessed:

Have mild symptoms of Upper Respiratory Tract Infection/Flu-like Illness and ANY of the following:
Have fever greater than or equal to 38 degrees celsius
Are underlying immunocompromised (e.g., Chemotherapy, HIV/AIDS, Dialysis)
Are over the age of 60 years
Have been referred by public health due to contact with a confirmed or probable case of COVID-19
Are health care workers in any acute care, long-term care or primary care setting (prioritized)

Any person who meets the following will NOT be assessed:

Has mild symptoms of Upper Respiratory Tract Infection/Flu-like Illness and ANY of the following:
NO fever (temperature under 38 degrees)
NO underlying conditions of concern
Under the age of 60 years
Able to rapidly access hospital if symptoms worsen.


----------



## Stephenlouis

There is generally a drop in fever before a second spike, Stay vigilant but not paranoid. Like im helping. We are seeing sore throat and fever as a uniforming early factor.


----------



## keto

colchar said:


> I just checked. Because my fever has gone down (for now) I don't think I meet the criteria for being tested as outlined here (taken from the William Osler Health Centre webpage):
> 
> 
> Any person who meets the following will be assessed:
> 
> Have mild symptoms of Upper Respiratory Tract Infection/Flu-like Illness and ANY of the following:
> Have fever greater than or equal to 38 degrees celsius
> Are underlying immunocompromised (e.g., Chemotherapy, HIV/AIDS, Dialysis)
> Are over the age of 60 years
> Have been referred by public health due to contact with a confirmed or probable case of COVID-19
> Are health care workers in any acute care, long-term care or primary care setting (prioritized)
> 
> Any person who meets the following will NOT be assessed:
> 
> Has mild symptoms of Upper Respiratory Tract Infection/Flu-like Illness and ANY of the following:
> NO fever (temperature under 38 degrees)
> NO underlying conditions of concern
> Under the age of 60 years
> Able to rapidly access hospital if symptoms worsen.


Didn't you say you had underlying? If Y, get tested.


----------



## 10409

mike_oxbig said:


> Post this so I can bump it in a week


7 days since this post



















Neither of us have hit our plateau yet


----------



## 10409

Do you think the stats from China are accurate? The way it reads they’re almost done with the outbreak


----------



## colchar

keto said:


> Didn't you say you had underlying? If Y, get tested.



Asthma but it is mild. The problem is, they wii not test me unless I meet specific criteria and right now I don't.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

I've been on hold for 45 minutes to Scotiabank for a simple question. Can you imagine what it will be like when this thing gets really bad? I have heard wait times for EI and other gov functions are into the hours in terms of wait times. Wow, we really can't handle much in this country. If the grid ever goes down it will be a total meltdown.


----------



## jb welder

colchar said:


> they wii not test me unless I meet specific criteria and right now I don't.


I take it your fever did not hit 38C then?


----------



## mhammer

colchar said:


> Asthma but it is mild. The problem is, they wii not test me unless I meet specific criteria and right now I don't.


In view of the shortage of both supplies and people to use them, triaging folks on the basis of symptoms seems apropos...as long as the individual is assessing their own symptoms accurately.

In which case, speedy recovery from whatever is laying you low right now. I'm sure anything that feels like it even remotely resembles that virus makes a restful night's sleep hard to attain.


----------



## 10409

GuitarsCanada said:


> I've been on hold for 45 minutes to Scotiabank for a simple question. Can you imagine what it will be like when this thing gets really bad? I have heard wait times for EI and other gov functions are into the hours in terms of wait times. Wow, we really can't handle much in this country. If the grid ever goes down it will be a total meltdown.


I had to call the cra for a login but the number flat out said out of service. We thought they were being nice giving us time, they were giving themselves time.


----------



## keto

GuitarsCanada said:


> I've been on hold for 45 minutes to Scotiabank for a simple question. Can you imagine what it will be like when this thing gets really bad? I have heard wait times for EI and other gov functions are into the hours in terms of wait times. Wow, we really can't handle much in this country. If the grid ever goes down it will be a total meltdown.


CMHC warns on 'jamming up phone lines' for needless mortgage relief - BNN Bloomberg

BTW, that's not an accusation. I had just read it when I saw your post lol.


----------



## mhammer

Between the upswing in Netflix/Crave/et al usage, streamed concerts, on-line school, on-line religious services, business conference calls on-line, people working from home, and other related things, the current scenario will certainly test the bandwidth limits of the internet "backbone".


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Well, if you want to know what is in the near future if we don't get our shit together right away, watch this. We need more drastic measures and to stop fucking around because there are too many folks that just will not listen.


----------



## mhammer

Do some Streetview surfing of cities and towns in the Lombardy region that was hit so hard. It's pretty much impossible to achieve any social distancing. Folks live SO close to each other. Looking at Bergamo,yesterday, which is the epicenter of the deaths, there are streets where you can drive a Vespa on them, if pedestrians flatten themselves against the nearest building.


----------



## knight_yyz

Ontario Hydro rates are now off peak only for 45 days. 


Went to TD bank after work. They are only open until 4 now and only letting in 2 or 3 people at a time. I applied for deferred mortgage today. Took 10 minutes. But, it takes about a week for approval. Ask them how much interest you will owe them while you are there. Takes them 30 seconds to look it up.


----------



## keto

knight_yyz said:


> Ontario Hydro rates are now off peak only for 45 days.
> 
> 
> Went to TD bank after work. They are only open until 4 now and only letting in 2 or 3 people at a time. I applied for deferred mortgage today. Took 10 minutes. But, it takes about a week for approval. Ask them how much interest you will owe them while you are there. Takes them 30 seconds to look it up.


Don't answer what gets too personal. Curious if they are offering 1 month, 6 months, other/flexible. Did they have to tie it directly to covid (you'd know by the questions they asked), did they give you any indication of what to expect given prior applications vis a vis yours?


----------



## allthumbs56

mhammer said:


> Between the upswing in Netflix/Crave/et al usage, streamed concerts, on-line school, on-line religious services, business conference calls on-line, people working from home, and other related things, the current scenario will certainly test the bandwidth limits of the internet "backbone".


I'm thinking that telecommunications companies, Amazon, Wayfair, and Skip the Dishes are in for some great profits over the next few months.


----------



## vadsy

No link to share but I heard that they were already throttling the Internet overseas.


----------



## colchar

jb welder said:


> I take it your fever did not hit 38C then?



It was high earlier today, but I do not have a thermometer with which to measure it. Until I can, I won't head over to the testing centre because I don't want to waste needed time/resources if my fever doesn't reach the threshold.


----------



## vadsy

Temp is rising on the situation in Drummondville. Are they under lockdown? Clip description says they are



http://imgur.com/9PHLdyJ


----------



## vadsy




----------



## vadsy




----------



## Sneaky

Wrong thread


----------



## Boogieman

mike_oxbig said:


> Do you think the stats from China are accurate? The way it reads they’re almost done with the outbreak


China's official count exclude those who have been tested positive but show no signs of symptoms. Other Asian nations (Japan, South Korea, Singapore) and Hong Kong count all positive tests in their official tallies, with symptoms showing or not.

China’s Hidden Symptom-Free Virus Cases Means Epidemic Not Over


----------



## Dorian2

Hey folks. If you want a giggle, check out what's trending on Youtube. It's mostly videos game and bopper stuff. When I clicked on it, it was rather refreshing actually. Keep the kids safe.


----------



## laristotle

jimsz said:


> Just worked out the finances from all the gigs that got cancelled on me this year so far and it looks like I'm going to save over $500.


Shared this with some friends and also created a meme for it too.
Hope you don't mind?


----------



## laristotle




----------



## knight_yyz

keto said:


> Don't answer what gets too personal. Curious if they are offering 1 month, 6 months, other/flexible. Did they have to tie it directly to covid (you'd know by the questions they asked), did they give you any indication of what to expect given prior applications vis a vis yours?


Wasn't really asked any questions. Told the girl that my cash flow was non existent because I topped up my RRSP and that I would be out of work in a week or two unless something changed. She explained how it worked then showed me how much interest I would owe at renewal time. She typed for a few minutes and said it would take a week to find out. The only thing I k ow for sure is when I applied for an official mortgage vacation from the same bank 6 or 7 years ago it was approved immediately. I told them make it 6 months but there is no reason you can't cancel if you are back to work. You can still make lump sum payments during the term which will help with the interest payment when your term is up.


----------



## knight_yyz

Interac is making the money. Most places are not accepting cash....


Anyone know if we are a dictatorship yet? Last I heard he was pushing for it and at 6am there is nothing I can find about it


----------



## knight_yyz

I was saying this the other day...


----------



## davetcan

CBC reporting aid bill was passed. No details yet.



knight_yyz said:


> Interac is making the money. Most places are not accepting cash....
> 
> 
> Anyone know if we are a dictatorship yet? Last I heard he was pushing for it and at 6am there is nothing I can find about it


----------



## mhammer

The chief obstacle to the bill being passed was that the Government had included powers that I assume they were thinking would give them the flexibility to act as and when needed. The Opposition - who have the power to bring down the Government - were fine with the rest of it, but none too keen on those emergency powers for the length of time proscribed ('til the end of 2021). So I gather the emergency powers part was scratched.

Like I keep saying, public policy, drafted quickly in response to current events, is frequently bad policy, because it sees things through the lens of "right now". If we had the latitude to create HoC and Senate sub-committees to study what to do, for the next 8 months, we'd have a nice seamless problem-free relief package. But we don't have that sort of time, unfortunately. Kudos to both the public service policy analysts and lawyers, and the Opposition parties, for being able to come up with something _reasonably_ workable in such a short time frame. I expect it to have warts, gaps, and plenty of fodder for the Auditor General's Office to issue scathing reports about for the next few years, but like they say: "any port in a storm". And right now, we need to tie the boats down.


----------



## knight_yyz

Our constitution states that any money involving taxes and spending of that money must be approved by the house of Parliament in a Majority vote. The PM tried to abolish that by wanting to avoid the house of Commons until the end of 2021 when his term ends. Complete power grab. He could have spent trillions without any approval whatsoever.


----------



## Milkman

Let's try to keep this from getting political please. I'm not inclined to listen to or read disparaging comments about our PM in this thread. There's a place for that and this isn't it.


----------



## Milkman




----------



## Wardo

knight_yyz said:


> Our constitution states that any money involving taxes and spending of that money must be approved by the house of Parliament in a Majority vote. The PM tried to abolish that by wanting to avoid the house of Commons until the end of 2021 when his term ends. Complete power grab. He could have spent trillions without any approval whatsoever.


Exactly, this wasn’t an innocent and rushed attempt to have more flexibility “if needed” it was an attempt to consolidate power and ensure that the government can not be brought down.


----------



## knight_yyz

Who said anything disparaging? I told the truth as reported in the news. Since when is telling the truth "political". My opinion might be political but I did not state my opinion.


----------



## boyscout

vadsy said:


> Temp is rising on the situation in Drummondville. Are they under lockdown? Clip description says they are


I see only a placeholder for your IMG. Drummondville? Did you mean Brockville?


----------



## vadsy

knight_yyz said:


> Interac is making the money. Most places are not accepting cash....
> 
> 
> Anyone know if we are a dictatorship yet? Last I heard he was pushing for it and at 6am there is nothing I can find about it


I’m sure it’s different everywhere but upon asking all the places I’ve been to, which is just Safeway and Costco, still accept cash. Plus the self-checkout machines, that way I bag my own groceries and can pay with cash.


----------



## Milkman

knight_yyz said:


> Who said anything disparaging? I told the truth as reported in the news. Since when is telling the truth "political". My opinion might be political but I did not state my opinion.



Your truth? My truth?

"Complete money grab"

C'mon man, you know damned well that crap doesn't belong here.


----------



## knight_yyz

I got pulled over by a cop the other day and he wouldn't touch my papers. I showed them to him and went back to his car. 5 minutes later he came back and told me to have a nice day. I'm still wondering why he pulled me over.


----------



## knight_yyz

Milkman said:


> Your truth? My truth?
> 
> "Complete money grab"
> 
> C'mon man, you know damned well that crap doesn't belong here.



If you're going to quote me at least get it right. Might want to double check what I said and what you quoted


----------



## Milkman

knight_yyz said:


> If you're going to quote me at least get it right. Might want to double check what I said and what you quoted



Fair enough.

That changes nothing however in terms of your inappropriate input.

We get it, you're conservative. The folks over in the political forum are very interested in knowing all about that.

Take the political stuff there and fill your boots.

Not here please.


----------



## keto

Milkman said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> That changes nothing however in terms of your inappropriate input.
> 
> We get it, you're conservative. The folks over in the political forum are very interested in knowing all about that.
> 
> Take the political stuff there and fill your boots.
> 
> Not here please.


Some might want to be informed as to why the relief package took a couple extra days.


----------



## Milkman

keto said:


> Some might want to be informed as to why the relief package took a couple extra days.



That can be done without this descending into a political pissing contest, thereby destroying a thread that is helping some here.


----------



## davetcan

To everyone complaining/reporting posts in this thread as being too political. I agree. I will also point out that if anyone in this thread is criticizing Trump, it's political. If you're going to complain about people criticizing Trudeau's handling of this go back and read some of your own posts before you do it.

I'm not sure how anyone can have a discussion on this issue without getting into how the various governments are handling it but going forward please try to limit anything overtly political to the thread also running in the political forum.

If you would like to sign up for that forum please contact Scott @GuitarsCanada . Be warned that anything goes there.


----------



## Milkman

I'll be happy to abide by those points.

Let's see if others can.


----------



## mhammer

knight_yyz said:


> If you're going to quote me at least get it right. Might want to double check what I said and what you quoted


"Complete power grab" is juuuuussst a bit on the incendiary side, by implying motive.
I will note that the bill was passed with just a fraction of the HoC in attendance. My own sense is that folks drawing up the bill likely thought "Well shit, what if we can't get Parliament in to vote on anything because they're all sick or under quarantine? THEN, what'll we do? Okay, now how long could we anticipate that risk for?", and the Opposition went "Wait just a doggone minute. You really think that having the power to sidestep Parliament is a _*good*_ thing? Nope, I can't go for that" (cue Hall & Oates).

No Snidely Whiplash moustache twiddling involved; just panic-driven public policy.
Which is precisely WHY one needs a clever, thoughtful, _loya_l Opposition at all times. And why, in normal times, a Senate is also useful. Governments and their bureaucratic servants can have the purest of motives, and work diligently. But that doesn't mean they get it right all the time, or that even when they do _seem_ to get it right, that there aren't things to fix. 

Hell, even the greatest guitars with the best tuning keys need tuning now and then; _especiall_y when you have an emergency change of strings in the middle of a gig.

But, in the spirit of the previous posts encouraging apolitical content here, I'll just say I'm glad I'm not a legislator at any level in any jurisdiction. Under better conditions, it's a shit job. I can't _begin_ to imagine the grief they're all catching at the moment. Not_ quite_ the shit job that being an ER staff-member or trucker might be right now, but not necessarily a whole lot better. If you thought stepping up to a comedy-club open-mic night and facing 120 people who expect you to be instantly funny is a tough gig, just try having 100,000 constituents, or a few million citizens who expect you to work economic and medical miracles.


----------



## knight_yyz

Milkman said:


> That can be done without this descending into a political pissing contest, thereby destroying a thread that is helping some here.


Over react much? Pissimg contest? Who the hell pissed in your Cheerios this morning?


----------



## 10409

Like it or not this subject is as political as it is anything. I don’t want to see it moved to the political forum because I don’t check that forum ever. I’m sure we can coexist with differing opinions. Agree to disagree sorta thing? If all the people that read our posts agreed with us or had no comment things would get boring fast


----------



## Milkman

knight_yyz said:


> Over react much? Pissimg contest? Who the hell pissed in your Cheerios this morning?


Nobody.

I'm in good spirits and working.

I just get sick to death of people politicizing what should be a unified and shared situation. It's quite easy for someone to read some shitty dig at Trudeau and respond with an equally derogatory comment about Sheer or some other politician.


I'm sure you're not interested in my political views and if you are, well that's why there' a political forum.


----------



## laristotle

mhammer said:


> "Complete power grab" is juuuuussst a bit on the incendiary side, by implying motive.
> I will note that the bill was passed with just a fraction of the HoC in attendance. My own sense is that folks drawing up the bill likely thought "Well shit, what if we can't get Parliament in to vote on anything because they're all sick or under quarantine? THEN, what'll we do? Okay, now how long could we anticipate that risk for?", and the Opposition went "Wait just a doggone minute. You really think that having the power to sidestep Parliament is a _*good*_ thing? Nope, I can't go for that" (cue Hall & Oates).
> 
> No Snidely Whiplash moustache twiddling involved; just panic-driven public policy.


For a moment there, I was picturing the old Wayne and Shuster parliament skit. lol


----------



## vadsy

Milkman said:


> I'll be happy to abide by those points.
> 
> Let's see if others can.


let’s see if you can, I believe you started it,,., then bitched and twaddled on others



knight_yyz said:


> Over react much? Pissimg contest? Who the hell pissed in your Cheerios this morning?


calm down, you went too far in the wrong forum. Get a political membership and do it right


----------



## Milkman

mike_oxbig said:


> Like it or not this subject is as political as it is anything. I don’t want to see it moved to the political forum because I don’t check that forum ever. I’m sure we can coexist with differing opinions. Agree to disagree sorta thing? If all the people that read our posts agreed with us or had no comment things would get boring fast


So, eliminate the political forum altogether? Anything goes?

Meh if that's the way this has to go, I'd personally be pretty disappointed.

Meh, I have a meeting.

TTFN


----------



## 10409

Milkman said:


> So, eliminate the political forum altogether? Anything goes?
> 
> Meh if that's the way this has to go, I'd personally be pretty disappointed.
> 
> Meh, I have a meeting.
> 
> TTFN


Believe it or not, it does get old when you report and complain about every combination of words not worthy of your eyes. Don’t be a Karen.


----------



## vadsy

_Don’t be a Karen_. 

[Chuckle]


----------



## 10409

I’d like to speak to your moderator. NOW.


----------



## vadsy

Milkman said:


> I'm in good spirits and *working.*
> .


hmmm, are you though? if you’re using company time to speak with the moderator ? seems like stealing


----------



## laristotle




----------



## laristotle

boyscout said:


> I see only a placeholder for your IMG





http://imgur.com/9PHLdyJ


----------



## Wardo

Pretty mild stuff but if it bothers you don’t read it. We are a political species - so it gets in everywhere. Trying to have everything sanitized for you is futile.


----------



## 12 stringer

How about getting back to the original topic for a while .... Prince Charles has it too, now.

Prince Charles tests positive for coronavirus


----------



## allthumbs56

I got a call from my daughter last night that her grandmother (ex-wife's side) has tested positive. She was taken to the hospital by ambulance 2 weeks ago (exactly) for a panic attack and released later that day. My son picked her up. Thankfully he grabbed a mask and gloves when entering the hospital to get her (and wore them in the car too). Only 2 weeks ago and he said that he didn't see any staff wearing masks in Emergency.

Anyway their grandmother fell ill 3 days ago and was taken back to hospital where she tested positive yesterday. She has COPD and essentially goes nowhere outside the house. Our only guess is that she had to have gotten it from the hospital.

I talked to my son last night (Day 13) and thankfully he is not showing any symptoms.


----------



## vadsy

Wardo said:


> Pretty mild stuff but if it bothers you don’t read it. We are a political species - so it gets in everywhere. Trying to have everything sanitized for you is futile.


 it’s just the proper way to do it, so do it. Guys come on complaining about the government not following rules but can’t follow rules the posting to complain.


----------



## Distortion

Just so you no. I watch a lot of NY press coverage on the whole deal. The death rate of people that test positive for the virus is 2%.....98% recover. That is with the current treatment. That is why they want to smooth out the curve of infection. So they can treat the worst cases.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Let's try to keep it together folks. We have many, many months ahead of us yet. Tensions will of course mount. Unfortunately at some point we will be posting about members that have died from this virus. Let's try to keep it real


----------



## knight_yyz

Milkman said:


> Nobody.
> 
> I'm in good spirits and working.
> 
> I just get sick to death of people politicizing what should be a unified and shared situation. It's quite easy for someone to read some shitty dig at Trudeau and respond with an equally derogatory comment about Sheer or some other politician.
> 
> 
> I'm sure you're not interested in my political views and if you are, well that's why there' a political forum.


I know you're a bleeding heart liberal. Your thin skin makes it obvious


----------



## vadsy

knight_yyz said:


> I know you're a bleeding heart liberal. Your thin skin makes it obvious


Classy


----------



## 10409

But of course there comes a time to put people in forum quarantine


----------



## vadsy

mike_oxbig said:


> But of course there comes a time to put people in forum quarantine


Between the dying, like GC said, and the quarantines we will have 3 guys left standing. Let’s get a poll going of who that will be?


----------



## 10409

1 week term of Banished to the bass forum where nobody will ever see your post


----------



## Milkman

knight_yyz said:


> I know you're a bleeding heart liberal. Your thin skin makes it obvious


Guilty.

I used to be a hard assed con just like you, but I have matured and mellowed.


----------



## davetcan

World Stats.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 440,386 Cases and 19,753 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer


----------



## 10409

vadsy said:


> Between the dying, like GC said, and the quarantines we will have 3 guys left standing. Let’s get a poll going of who that will be?


M night shambalaba’s outcome: David henman returns out of left field


----------



## Ship of fools

Allthumbs that's great to hear. Its such a strange bug to say the least, seems that it hits one really hard and others even with lung and other problems its like a mild cold no rhyme or reason. One thing they did notice was that type O blood was on the lower scale but that could just be a random number thing.
Having worked in a hospital many moons ago I had the great pleasure of working on a disaster plan for the hospital with my manager and it was a eye opener to say the least as to what one needs to prepare for it in terms of supplies. It was a nightmare to source many products. From medical supplies to even food and of course staff was a huge problem. How to convince folks to come to work when they them self's were frightened.
And Wardo not every one is political and Vadsy don't you work still and if so calling the kettle black well hummmmm.
Way to go on mellowing at you got older Milkman use to be a time the only way I knew how to mellow out was a good fist to cuff but and lets hear it for our friends south of us at 66 there are still those moments but I curtail them cause I understand that some people just hear what they want to hear in typed words, what are you going to do.
I say fuck it I'm still here and feeling as good as I can.
And lets hear it for the folks south of all of us for having Corvid-19 parties like they use to for mumps. Highly intelligent wouldn't you say


----------



## Milkman

mike_oxbig said:


> M night shambalaba’s outcome: David henman returns out of left field



We should be so lucky as to have David here again.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

mike_oxbig said:


> M night shambalaba’s outcome: David henman returns out of left field


How so? How do we know the virus is the bad guy?


----------



## vadsy

Milkman said:


> We should be so lucky as to have David here again.


He’s trapped on a cruise ship playing with the monsters of rock

I don’t know who he was to you guys but can’t be saying much if he left cuz his feelings were hurt


----------



## vadsy

GuitarsCanada said:


> How so? How do we know the virus is the bad guy?


Excellent point


----------



## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> How so? How do we know the virus is the bad guy?



David isn't that dumb.

There IS however, a viral video circulating which I haven't seen that claims this has nothing to do with a virus, but rather was caused somehow by the implementation of 5G in Wuhan city.

That clip was started by a now discredited doctor.


----------



## vadsy

Ship of fools said:


> . and Vadsy don't you work still and if so calling the kettle black well hummmmm.


Yup, working from my hot tub, hard at with coffee and baileys. Hold on a sec, gotta take this call....


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Milkman said:


> David isn't that dumb.
> 
> There IS however, a viral video circulating which I haven't seen that claims this has nothing to do with a virus, but rather was caused somehow by the implementation of 5G in Wuhan city.
> 
> That clip was started by a now discredited doctor.


Mike I dig you. Always have. Your a nice guy and a compassionate person. But David Henman was so full of shit you needed wings to stay above it. He could not nor will he ever be able to understand why he was thrown out of April Wine. He is a bitter old man. He was thrown out of this forum for the very same reasons he was thrown out of that band. You can't talk to him, he has only one opinion, his.


----------



## torndownunit

Coronavirus: Prince Charles tests positive for COVID-19


----------



## vadsy

Milkman said:


> David isn't that dumb.
> 
> There IS however, a viral video circulating which I haven't seen that claims this has nothing to do with a virus, but rather was caused somehow by the implementation of 5G in Wuhan city.
> 
> That clip was started by a now discredited doctor.


I’ve been on 5G for over a year now and I’m fine


----------



## Wardo

vadsy said:


> Between the dying, like GC said, and the quarantines we will have 3 guys left standing. Let’s get a poll going of who that will be?


Make it a betting pool with odds on favourites and all that or one of those deals where everyone throws in some cash and last man alive gets it all ..lol


----------



## vadsy

Wardo said:


> Make it a betting pool with odds on favourites and all that or one of those deals where everyone throws in some cash and last man alive gets it all ..lol


I like it. Just like the Flying Hellfish


----------



## allthumbs56

Milkman said:


> We should be so lucky as to have David here again.


Agreed. I miss Mr Henman. A great contributor in most areas. 

Sadly, his downfall was not self-isolating from the Political Forum


----------



## allthumbs56

Milkman said:


> David isn't that dumb.
> 
> There IS however, a viral video circulating which I haven't seen that claims this has nothing to do with a virus, but rather was caused somehow by the implementation of 5G in Wuhan city.
> 
> That clip was started by a now discredited doctor.


Expect lots of conspiracy theories as the days progress. I saw an article the other day that suggested the virus could become the perfect tool for terrorists willing to die for their cause.


----------



## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> Mike I dig you. Always have. Your a nice guy and a compassionate person. But David Henman was so full of shit you needed wings to stay above it. He could not nor will he ever be able to understand why he was thrown out of April Wine. He is a bitter old man. He was thrown out of this forum for the very same reasons he was thrown out of that band. You can't talk to him, he has only one opinion, his.


Well the feeling is mutual Scott, other than the fact that my opinion of David is almost the opposite of yours.

And that's fine.

Opinions about his departure from April Wine vary dramatically depending on who you choose to believe.


----------



## knight_yyz

Wow... Just wow... Why even bother? Sorry if you don't have Facebook you won't see it.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10221775682851875


----------



## 10409

This is like when the boss yells at you for not working but then you pass the doobie and he starts telling stories for 20 minutes


----------



## Ship of fools

I remember David when he played local bars here, great guy when you talked about music but I ALWAYS avoided talking politics or such with him back then.
Vadsy where the hell is the whipping cream god damn it its not Baileys and coffee without whipping cream and don't forget the sugared rim was a bartender once for a few years.Hell I plan on out living everyone I can .


----------



## JazzyT

davetcan said:


> World Stats.
> 
> Coronavirus Update (Live): 440,386 Cases and 19,753 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer


Spain has just joined Italy as countries with death tolls above China's.


----------



## Milkman

knight_yyz said:


> Wow... Just wow... Why even bother? Sorry if you don't have Facebook you won't see it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10221775682851875


Strangely, although I don't have facebook and often can't see such clips, I can watch that one.

I guess being a coffee lover I'm mystified at anyone actually risking exposure for what I consider dishwater.

Going out for basic supplies is one thing. I love how he tells the guy behind him to F off when he beeps.


----------



## Doug Gifford

I have an occasional bandmate who is hard right in his beliefs and words. He is also convinced that he's always right and doesn't mind telling me what I'm doing (or believing) is wrong. The music is generally a pleasure, but the rest undercuts it -- a lot.


----------



## vadsy

Milkman said:


> Strangely, although I don't have facebook and often can't see such clips, I can watch that one.
> 
> I guess being a coffee lover I'm mystified at anyone actually risking exposure for what I consider dishwater.
> 
> Going out for basic supplies is one thing. I love how he tells the guy behind him to F off when he beeps.


Coffee lover and Tim Hortons don’t go together


----------



## Milkman

Doug Gifford said:


> I have an occasional bandmate who is hard right in his beliefs and words. He is also convinced that he's always right and doesn't mind telling me what I'm doing (or believing) is wrong. The music is generally a pleasure, but the rest undercuts it -- a lot.


Yes, nothing will poison a relationship worse than politics or religion.


----------



## laristotle

David? I'll have plenty of gun meme's at the ready.


----------



## torndownunit

vadsy said:


> Coffee lover and Tim Hortons don’t go together


The shit he was spraying in it would taste better than that awful coffee.


----------



## boyscout

vadsy said:


> Between the dying, like GC said, and the quarantines we will have 3 guys left standing. Let’s get a poll going of who that will be?


And who will be the drummer?


----------



## mhammer

davetcan said:


> World Stats.
> 
> Coronavirus Update (Live): 440,386 Cases and 19,753 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer


I notice that the site has added a column to the right, listing deaths-per-million-people. The cases-per-million column is only as informative as the extent of testing is. The "Total recovered" _could _be informative if one knew that all existing cases were known, and properly diagnosed in the first place. But as such, it's not much of a beacon of hope.

And as I've noted before, for reasons that certainly evoke speculation but aren't manifestly clear, the USA's mortality rate remains a little more than double that of Canada. Italy and Spain remain the two worst places to be, with Iran and the Netherlands not far behind. 

There are a bunch of nations on that list that are likely doing MUCH worse than indicated, and either have:
a) repressive regimes - e.g., Russia, Eritrea, Myanmar
b) precious little public administration to speak of because they're too small - e.g. much of the Caribbean - are are in a seemingly perpetual state of chaos - e.g., Somalia, Haiti, Libya, Congo

Then there are places that have a _lot_ of space between them and everywhere else - e.g., Greenland, Faeroe Islands, Fiji - and may well be as disease-free as their numbers suggest.


----------



## vadsy

boyscout said:


> And who will be the drummer?


its a 3 piece bluegrass duo. all doubleneck banjos and a ukulele but the uke guy is probably gonna get kicked out of the band


----------



## Milkman

I'm curious about India in this situation. With sanitation and modern plumbing being a rarity there and the population being so dense, I'm surprised that hasn't become a raging hotspot, or has it?

All we're hearing about now is Italy, Spain and the USA.


----------



## Chito

Milkman said:


> I'm curious about India in this situation. With sanitation and modern plumbing being a rarity there and the population being so dense, I'm surprised that hasn't become a raging hotspot, or has it?
> 
> All we're hearing about now is Italy, Spain and the USA.


They just a total lockdown in India. A billion people in lockdown


----------



## vadsy

Chito said:


> They just a total lockdown in India. A billion people in lockdown


yea, I saw some stick beatings of the violators. classic India


----------



## allthumbs56

mhammer said:


> I notice that the site has added a column to the right, listing deaths-per-million-people. The cases-per-million column is only as informative as the extent of testing is. The "Total recovered" _could _be informative if one knew that all existing cases were known, and properly diagnosed in the first place. But as such, it's not much of a beacon of hope.
> 
> And as I've noted before, for reasons that certainly evoke speculation but aren't manifestly clear, the USA's mortality rate remains a little more than double that of Canada. Italy and Spain remain the two worst places to be, with Iran and the Netherlands not far behind.
> 
> There are a bunch of nations on that list that are likely doing MUCH worse than indicated, and either have:
> a) repressive regimes - e.g., Russia, Eritrea, Myanmar
> b) precious little public administration to speak of because they're too small - e.g. much of the Caribbean - are are in a seemingly perpetual state of chaos - e.g., Somalia, Haiti, Libya, Congo
> 
> Then there are places that have a _lot_ of space between them and everywhere else - e.g., Greenland, Faeroe Islands, Fiji - and may well be as disease-free as their numbers suggest.


If you consider that Ontario has 500ish positive tests and over 10,000 people awaiting test results you fast realize that trying to follow a trend is nigh impossible. If 30% of those awaiting those results test positive (not unlikely I think) then that 500 becomes 3,500 overnight - try to put that on a graph in a meaningful way.


----------



## Milkman

Chito said:


> They just a total lockdown in India. A billion people in lockdown



Yes, I see that on the CBC page but realistically, how effective will social (or physical if you prefer) distancing be in a place where so many are crammed into such close quarters and where even the most basic sanitation which we take for granted here is sorely lacking?

I'm sorry if I seem to be attacking India, but do even the most basic research and you'll likely be shocked and disgusted. I mean, they're still tossing dead bodies into the Ganga weighted down with rocks as far as I know, not to mention pumping millions of liters of raw untreated sewage and industrial chemicals directly into her.


----------



## mhammer

allthumbs56 said:


> If you consider that Ontario has 500ish positive tests and over 10,000 people awaiting test results you fast realize that trying to follow a trend is nigh impossible. If 30% of those awaiting those results test positive (not unlikely I think) then that 500 becomes 3,500 overnight - try to put that on a graph in a meaningful way.


Which is why I generally turn to the deaths-per-capita data. Like I've noted, all deaths are reported.

And for whatever complaints people have about various national leaders, at least they aren't this bozo: Bolsonaro says he 'wouldn't feel anything' if infected with Covid-19 and attacks state lockdowns


----------



## Milkman

mhammer said:


> Which is why I generally turn to the deaths-per-capita data. Like I've noted, all deaths are reported.
> 
> And for whatever complaints people have about various national leaders, at least they aren't this bozo: Bolsonaro says he 'wouldn't feel anything' if infected with Covid-19 and attacks state lockdowns


Very sad to hear such comments from a supposed leader. My friends in Sao Paulo have already been self isolating for two weeks. They have enough problems in that country without this.


----------



## JazzyT

vadsy said:


> yea, I saw some stick beatings of the violators. classic India


I love me a good old lathi-charge.


----------



## allthumbs56

mhammer said:


> Which is why I generally turn to the deaths-per-capita data. Like I've noted, all deaths are reported.
> 
> *And for whatever complaints people have about various national leaders, at least they aren't this bozo: Bolsonaro says he 'wouldn't feel anything' if infected with Covid-19 and attacks state lockdowns*


See how hard it is to not be political about this? 

Let's cut each other a little slack.


----------



## tomee2

Anyone playing the guitar anymore? 
I think I'm going to change strings and then clean the fretboard with hand sanitizer.


----------



## vadsy

allthumbs56 said:


> See how hard it is to not be political about this?
> 
> Let's cut each other a little slack.


I'm not understanding why a guy who keeps out of the political section when he clearly wants to be there and a guy who wants no politics here keep posting on issues that stray in the direction


----------



## colchar

allthumbs56 said:


> Expect lots of conspiracy theories as the days progress. I saw an article the other day that suggested the virus could become the perfect tool for terrorists willing to die for their cause.



ISIS (or its remnants) has actually said that, and more.


----------



## colchar

knight_yyz said:


> Our constitution states that any money involving taxes and spending of that money must be approved by the house of Parliament in a Majority vote. The PM tried to abolish that by wanting to avoid the house of Commons until the end of 2021 when his term ends. Complete power grab. He could have spent trillions without any approval whatsoever.



He was trying to avoid confidence votes in order to stay in power.


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> Let's try to keep this from getting political please.


The two are intertwined and cannot be sparated.





> I'm not inclined to listen to or read disparaging comments about our PM in this thread. There's a place for that and this isn't it.



Why not, since the disparaging comments will be about his response, or lack thereof, to this crisis?


----------



## colchar

mhammer said:


> "Complete power grab" is juuuuussst a bit on the incendiary side, by implying motive.
> I will note that the bill was passed with just a fraction of the HoC in attendance. My own sense is that folks drawing up the bill likely thought "Well shit, what if we can't get Parliament in to vote on anything because they're all sick or under quarantine? THEN, what'll we do? Okay, now how long could we anticipate that risk for?", and the Opposition went "Wait just a doggone minute. You really think that having the power to sidestep Parliament is a _*good*_ thing? Nope, I can't go for that" (cue Hall & Oates).
> 
> No Snidely Whiplash moustache twiddling involved; just panic-driven public policy.
> Which is precisely WHY one needs a clever, thoughtful, _loya_l Opposition at all times. And why, in normal times, a Senate is also useful. Governments and their bureaucratic servants can have the purest of motives, and work diligently. But that doesn't mean they get it right all the time, or that even when they do _seem_ to get it right, that there aren't things to fix.
> 
> Hell, even the greatest guitars with the best tuning keys need tuning now and then; _especiall_y when you have an emergency change of strings in the middle of a gig.
> 
> But, in the spirit of the previous posts encouraging apolitical content here, I'll just say I'm glad I'm not a legislator at any level in any jurisdiction. Under better conditions, it's a shit job. I can't _begin_ to imagine the grief they're all catching at the moment. Not_ quite_ the shit job that being an ER staff-member or trucker might be right now, but not necessarily a whole lot better. If you thought stepping up to a comedy-club open-mic night and facing 120 people who expect you to be instantly funny is a tough gig, just try having 100,000 constituents, or a few million citizens who expect you to work economic and medical miracles.


----------



## colchar

knight_yyz said:


> Over react much? Pissimg contest? Who the hell pissed in your Cheerios this morning?



He's bored in quarantine so decided to be thread cop.


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> I just get sick to death of people politicizing what should be a unified and shared situation.



So you're sick to death of Trugrope and his attempt to shred the constitution? Fair enough.


----------



## colchar

mike_oxbig said:


> But of course there comes a time to put people in forum quarantine



Is it not still policy (law?) that people with TB are forced into quarantine? If so, why can't that also be done for this?


----------



## colchar

allthumbs56 said:


> Agreed. I miss Mr Henman. A great contributor in most areas.
> 
> Sadly, his downfall was not self-isolating from the Political Forum



Who did he post as here?


----------



## laristotle

colchar said:


> Who did he post as here?


As his self, David Henman. 

I kinda miss the rantings of Sir Clinton Hammond.


----------



## mhammer

vadsy said:


> I'm not understanding why a guy who keeps out of the political section when he clearly wants to be there and a guy who wants no politics here keep posting on issues that stray in the direction


A completely fair observation.


----------



## colchar

laristotle said:


> As his self, David Henman.
> 
> I kinda miss the rantings of Sir Clinton Hammond.



Thanks. Alright, I've fought this long enough today. I feel like a bag of smashed arseholes and badly need to lie down for a while.


----------



## mhammer

I sincerely hope you are reading this three hours and a comforting nap from now. Be good to yourself, man.


----------



## jimsz




----------



## allthumbs56

laristotle said:


> As his self, David Henman.
> 
> I kinda miss the rantings of Sir Clinton Hammond.


CH was nasty but necessary - he made the rest of us happy to be who we were


----------



## vadsy

colchar said:


> So you're sick to death of Trugrope and his attempt to shred the constitution? Fair enough.


posts about following the rules, terrible at following them himself. somehow thinks he should be running things. Leafs fan to boot



colchar said:


> Thanks. Alright, I've fought this long enough today. I feel like a bag of smashed arseholes and badly need to lie down for a while.


that is awful news, hate to see a guy go down. I hope you aren't seriously sick and that its just a violent case of diarrhea


----------



## knight_yyz

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=883480935399370


----------



## tomee2

Milkman said:


> I'm curious about India in this situation. With sanitation and modern plumbing being a rarity there and the population being so dense, I'm surprised that hasn't become a raging hotspot, or has it?
> 
> All we're hearing about now is Italy, Spain and the USA.


It hasn't started to take off there yet. Just like we are about 10 days behind NY in the US, I think many countries are several weeks behind us on the start of this.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

tomee2 said:


> It hasn't started to take off there yet. Just like we are about 10 days behind NY in the US, I think many countries are several weeks behind us on the start of this.


The madness has not even begun yet.


----------



## mhammer

tomee2 said:


> It hasn't started to take off there yet. Just like we are about 10 days behind NY in the US, I think many countries are several weeks behind us on the start of this.


It's hard to know. First, with SOOO many people, it's hard to keep track, especially in the rural areas. As a nation, it's entirely modern in some parts, and not so much in others.
I found a not-that-recent report on sources of mortality in India ( http://www.cghr.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Causes_of_death_2001-03.pdf ). It notes that, while non-communicable sources of mortality predominate in urban areas, communicable disease is more prevalent as a cause of death in rural areas than in urban areas. In Canada, heart disease accounts for about four times as many deaths as respiratory disease/problems. In India, heart disease is a little more than twice as likely a cause of death, relative to respiratory disease/problems. So, inasmuch as Covid-19 is a communicable respiratory disease, the national prognosis for India is not good; especially with that population density and the lack of proper sewage treatment and water in many rural areas.


----------



## 10409

Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been

-Incubus


----------



## bolero

mhammer said:


> It's hard to know. First, with SOOO many people, it's hard to keep track, especially in the rural areas. As a nation, it's entirely modern in some parts, and not so much in others.
> I found a not-that-recent report on sources of mortality in India ( http://www.cghr.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Causes_of_death_2001-03.pdf ). It notes that, while non-communicable sources of mortality predominate in urban areas, communicable disease is more prevalent as a cause of death in rural areas than in urban areas. In Canada, heart disease accounts for about four times as many deaths as respiratory disease/problems. In India, heart disease is a little more than twice as likely a cause of death, relative to respiratory disease/problems. So, inasmuch as Covid-19 is a communicable respiratory disease, the national prognosis for India is not good; especially with that population density and the lack of proper sewage treatment and water in many rural areas.


 it's hard to get tested here, if you don't show symptoms

the virus is contagious even if you don't have symptoms, for up to 14 days (?)

= lots of people unaware they have the virus, potentially spreading it


----------



## 10409

bolero said:


> it's hard to get tested here, if you don't show symptoms
> 
> the virus is contagious even if you don't have symptoms, for up to 14 days (?)
> 
> = lots of people unaware they have the virus, potentially spreading it


I guess That’s the idea behind social distancing. In a perfect world within 2 weeks everyone who has it knows they have it and we can deal with them and move on. Need some extra sheep dogs for most flocks for that to ever be 100%


----------



## vadsy




----------



## rollingdam

This guy is fucking nuts

Texas Lt. Governor Says Grandparents Are Ready to Die from Coronavirus for the Economy


----------



## vadsy

http://imgur.com/height%3D538%3Bid%3DF7zOW1O%3Btype%3Dgifv%3Bwidth%3D960


----------



## allthumbs56

bolero said:


> it's hard to get tested here, if you don't show symptoms
> 
> the virus is contagious even if you don't have symptoms, for up to 14 days (?)
> 
> = lots of people unaware they have the virus, potentially spreading it


Not to mention that there are close to 11,000 in Ontario awaiting test results. Watch the official numbers take off once those results are in.


----------



## 10409

Bet bill gates is happy that people are finally using bing


----------



## davetcan

Local mall just put concrete crash barriers in front of all the entrances and main floor glass store fronts. WTF, will it really get that crazy?


----------



## davetcan

I give up, you're all on your own, figuratively as well as literally. (speaking about politics in this thread that is).


----------



## Milkman

mike_oxbig said:


> Bet bill gates is happy that people are finally using bing


He might be even happier if we had listened when he tried to warn us about coronavirus back in 2015.

Bill Gates says we must combat the coronavirus pandemic with ‘6-10 weeks’ of lockdown -- and innovation


----------



## 10409

13 seconds later


----------



## Dorian2

******

Hey guys. I know it's next to impossible to keep the Politics out of this thread. If everyone can at least try to keep the Political opinions and slants to a bare minimum, it would be greatly appreciated. A number of you that respond here are in the Political forum I'm assuming, so if you are, you probably noticed that certain members of THIS forum aren't present. Myself being one of them. There is a reason for that for me as I grew up in a family with Civic duty as the main occupation. A very short synopsis of WHY I didn't sign up for that forum is my Father, Uncles, and 2 Grandfathers were all in the Military. I grew up in the DND system. My family was also part of the first responders as my Mother, her sister, my Grandmother, and many other family members were in the business of saving lives as Registered Nurses and Health care professionals. My background and social structure I grew up in hs led to me not wanting to discuss Political views at any great length.

So with that in mind, I'd again like to ask to keep the Political banter to a minimum when possible please.

Thanks

Pete


----------



## JazzyT

I won't discuss politics in this thread, because it outside the politics subforum, but it's sad that you think having family members in the military tamps down one's desire to be interested in politics.


----------



## Milkman

JazzyT said:


> I won't discuss politics in this thread, because it outside the politics subforum, but it's sad that you think having family members in the military tamps down one's desire to be interested in politics.


Not exactly what I took from his post, but I'm sure he'll clarify.


----------



## 10409

Appreciate your input always Pete, never had anything to say about you not even to my dog. But this is a political topic in nature, it’s inseparable. we can either stop talking about it completely (doubtful since this forum hasn’t been this active since the 70’s) or we can learn to talk about uncomfortable things that we don’t agree on. Nothing like a good old quarantine to work on our social skills.


----------



## Dorian2

JazzyT said:


> I won't discuss politics in this thread, because it outside the politics subforum, but it's sad that you think having family members in the military tamps down one's desire to be interested in politics.


To clarify. I prefer not to talk about Politics. It has nothing to do with my interest in it at all.


----------



## vadsy

mike_oxbig said:


> Appreciate your input always Pete, never had anything to say about you not even to my dog. But this is a political topic in nature, it’s inseparable. we can either stop talking about it completely (doubtful since this forum hasn’t been this active since the 70’s) or we can learn to talk about uncomfortable things that we don’t agree on. Nothing like a good old quarantine to work on our social skills.


totally possible to keep shitty politics out. some of the political stuff needs to be posted but no need to whine about it until you get over to the proper sub-forum. just check out that side and see how different it all ready is from this one,,. I mean the same Corona topic thread


----------



## Dorian2

mike_oxbig said:


> Appreciate your input always Pete, never had anything to say about you not even to my dog. But this is a political topic in nature, it’s inseparable. we can either stop talking about it completely (doubtful since this forum hasn’t been this active since the 70’s) or we can learn to talk about uncomfortable things that we don’t agree on. Nothing like a good old quarantine to work on our social skills.


Yeah, I know it's inseperable. As long as posters try to keep it down to a minimum is all I'm asking. There are a lot of opinions that don't have to be voiced while talking about the Corona virus here.


----------



## sulphur

mike_oxbig said:


> Appreciate your input always Pete, never had anything to say about you not even to my dog. But this is a political topic in nature, it’s inseparable. we can either stop talking about it completely (doubtful since this forum hasn’t been this active since the 70’s) or we can learn to talk about uncomfortable things that we don’t agree on. Nothing like a good old quarantine to work on our social skills.


The topic is surely politically involved, peoples opinions are not necessary.
As stated a hundred times already, if you want to state your opinion on the political climate related to the subject, there's a place to do that.

I posted a meme or two earlier in this thread due to getting fed up reading peoples opinions.


----------



## JazzyT

Dorian2 said:


> To clarify. I prefer not to talk about Politics. It has nothing to do with my interest in it at all.


Okay, I understand.


----------



## 10409

Im definitely going to throw this out 










It smells awful


----------



## keto

Just got home from an all day drive, so I don't have link(s) yet. Just some stuff heard on the radio today.
-lack of testing is becoming due to lack of reagents' availability. They didn't say which ones, I wonder if it relates back to something I posted on a couple weeks back, that the Wuhan area is a large like 70-80% of the world supply of components of pharmaceuticals.
-Alberta ramped up fines dramatically for non compliance with isolation requirements. How about a $1,000 ticket and up to $100K fines if it goes before a judge. No specifics on enforcement, but they are allowing people like sherrifs (I believe this is who was referred to as 'Tier 1 enforcement') and talking about even using city bylaw people to issue tickets. No word on how to deal with any potential chronic offender, but it would be a health dept matter.


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> As his self, David Henman.
> 
> I kinda miss the rantings of Sir Clinton Hammond.


Not me. They're right in there with what was his name, buckethead and the guy who bounced people.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

davetcan said:


> Local mall just put concrete crash barriers in front of all the entrances and main floor glass store fronts. WTF, will it really get that crazy?


Or local Bass Pro was already ripped off last night. Dude broke in and stole guns and ammo. Yes, it will get much worse


----------



## Distortion

so the whole Toronto blue jay team and management have been tested and no positive results. Unreal regular folk with symptoms and some sick health care people can't get tested due to limited supply.Just on the news.


----------



## Electraglide

J


keto said:


> Just got home from an all day drive, so I don't have link(s) yet. Just some stuff heard on the radio today.
> -lack of testing is becoming due to lack of reagents' availability. They didn't say which ones, I wonder if it relates back to something I posted on a couple weeks back, that the Wuhan area is a large like 70-80% of the world supply of components of pharmaceuticals.
> -Alberta ramped up fines dramatically for non compliance with isolation requirements. How about a $1,000 ticket and up to $100K fines if it goes before a judge. No specifics on enforcement, but they are allowing people like sherrifs (I believe this is who was referred to as 'Tier 1 enforcement') and talking about even using city bylaw people to issue tickets. No word on how to deal with any potential chronic offender, but it would be a health dept matter.


Just what are Alberta's isolation requirements? I took a walk and did some shopping today after I went to the bank and things are Ok out there. As far as going before a judge I think that that part of the system is on the back burner.


----------



## Wardo

Electraglide said:


> ... As far as going before a judge I think that that part of the system is on the back burner.


Particularly for bail hearings.


----------



## keto

Electraglide said:


> J
> 
> Just what are Alberta's isolation requirements? I took a walk and did some shopping today after I went to the bank and things are Ok out there. As far as going before a judge I think that that part of the system is on the back burner.


Just the national 'isolate 14d after returning to country'.

BTW reporting violators was to be via AHS somehow, website or toll free. Not calling the cops.


----------



## Electraglide

keto said:


> Just the national 'isolate 14d after returning to country'.
> 
> BTW reporting violators was to be via AHS somehow, website or toll free. Not calling the cops.


Report the violators.....that's a laugh. Tie up the AHS website and phone lines 'cause you see someone out walking their dog. I thought I saw something on line about the 'self isolation' only being 10 days now in Ab. from either our wonderful political leader or from the head doc.. 


Wardo said:


> Particularly for bail hearings.


They'll just send you home or fast track you.


----------



## allthumbs56

Said on the news tonight that they're changing the "I'm cured" criteria from needing two test 24 hours apart to a self-policing passage of time. Two-fold benefit - allows them to improve the numbers of people cured and frees up a whole bunch of testing resources for those just getting started.

I only hope that the two-week criteria is rock-solid.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Shocking numbers starting to develop with this thing. Let's examine..... all major pandemics of the past end up with a final death rate. This is simple calculation of infected over recorded deaths. The final death rate of course cannot be known until the pandemic is over, which for this virus will be at least a year or more since there are only two ways to end it, herd immunity or a vaccine. Data right now can be broken down into active cases and concluded cases. Unfortunately it may be impossible to ever know just how many people contracted this particular virus because thousands may and will have it and not experience symptoms severe enough to seek testing or medical treatment. But of the known closed cases, those that were tested is currently at 134,986 with a recovered/discharged of 113,809. The current deaths of concluded cases is 21,177 which is a death rate of 16%. That is a shocking number. When I first started following the concluded cases stats the death rate was 7%. That was about 9 days ago.

Coronavirus Update (Live): 467,890 Cases and 21,178 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer


----------



## 10409

I could have probably googled this, but does anyone know if it’s like the chicken pox where you can only catch it once, or will it just keep circulating?


----------



## sulphur

mike_oxbig said:


> I could have probably googled this, but does anyone know if it’s like the chicken pox where you can only catch it once, or will it just keep circulating?


I heard nothing conclusive, but did hear something about that you could get infected again.
That could be just a rumor too, who knows for sure right now. It would suck if it were true though.

The Spanish flu pandemic ran for almost two years.


----------



## knight_yyz

There are two strains already. You can catch one then the other, or have both at the same time. Type S and Type L IIRC

I don't think the Spanish Flu would have been so devastating had it not occurred immediately after the war...


----------



## Wardo

Remember to wash your hands:


----------



## GuitarsCanada

mike_oxbig said:


> I could have probably googled this, but does anyone know if it’s like the chicken pox where you can only catch it once, or will it just keep circulating?


It's been determined that this one will most likely stay with us forever. It will eventually be added to the known flu viruses that return each year and the flu shot will eventually have the vaccine for this.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

mike_oxbig said:


> I could have probably googled this, but does anyone know if it’s like the chicken pox where you can only catch it once, or will it just keep circulating?


There have been at least one report of someone being reinfected. I think she worked on a tour bus if I recall correctly. A Chinese team did a small monkey test and report no reinfection in Reese's monkeys. They used 4 of them. So, who really knows. We do know that there are 2 strains, type L and type S, so it seems to be able to mutate pretty readily. Did the reported reinfected person have one strain and then the other? That was never said. Given that it mutated to infect humans from animals, then mutated to be able to travel human to human, then into 2 strains, in less than 6 months, anything is possible. But the small limited study says no at this time. "At this time" being the operative part of the sentence. Seems there is not much that is for sure around this.


----------



## sulphur

Here's the new PPE at work...


----------



## Electraglide

They say India's "locked down". Doesn't seem to be going all that well and this doesn't include the way the upper castes are treating the lower ones.
Day 1 of World’s Largest Lockdown: Desperation and Police Blockades


----------



## Wardo

Jim DaddyO said:


> Seems there is not much that is for sure around this.


Yeah, that's about the only thing that is for sure so far.


----------



## laristotle

The cannabis industry can help with coronavirus testing. But will the government listen?

_High North Laboratories says it can process 500 COVID-19 tests a day right now, but hasn't heard back from public health officials after weeks of trying

On the outskirts of Toronto, next to the Pearson International Airport, there is a 16,000 square foot cannabis testing laboratory whose owner says it can process 500 coronavirus tests a day. With an investment for additional equipment, that number could rise to more than 1,000 tests a day. 

“Testing right now is just way too slow, it’s unbearably slow,” John Slaughter, the CEO of High North Laboratories told The GrowthOp. “So we started looking internally to see what would it take for us to do that kind of testing and found out it wasn’t really much. We were right on the cusp of it anyway.”

The lab would have to be certified to biosafety standards level two, Slaughter says, but amid the crisis, he is hopeful that certification could come quickly. The first step, and perhaps most challenging, is getting the government to listen.

Sax says there are resources in the cannabis sector that are likely under-utilized, such as recently built, large-scale facilities that are not yet operational due to cash flow issues. Sax says those sites could be used to accommodate recovering COVID-19 patients. 

“Those facilities are built to pharma-grade standards with the right HVAC design, and negative pressure in order to isolate airflow,” he says. “Cannabis companies that have excess facilities should look at getting in touch with either Health Canada or their provincial health authorities about converting those to makeshift hospitals.”_


----------



## tdotrob

Jim DaddyO said:


> There have been at least one report of someone being reinfected. I think she worked on a tour bus if I recall correctly. A Chinese team did a small monkey test and report no reinfection in Reese's monkeys. They used 4 of them. So, who really knows. We do know that there are 2 strains, type L and type S, so it seems to be able to mutate pretty readily. Did the reported reinfected person have one strain and then the other? That was never said. Given that it mutated to infect humans from animals, then mutated to be able to travel human to human, then into 2 strains, in less than 6 months, anything is possible. But the small limited study says no at this time. "At this time" being the operative part of the sentence. Seems there is not much that is for sure around this.


I did read about the reinfection intially bit i also read an article about how both cases they now believe it was a case of a patient being released prematurely from false negative tests and that they weren’t reinfected in the community but just still had the virus. Who knows if that is fact but it seemed like a legit smarty pants article.


----------



## Chito

tdotrob said:


> I did read about the reinfection intially bit i also read an article about how both cases they now believe it was a case of a patient being released prematurely from false negative tests and that they weren’t reinfected in the community but just still had the virus. Who knows if that is fact but it seemed like a legit smarty pants article.


There were actually 2 cases of reinfection in the news, one is what you have mentioned. So there's really no concrete evidence of getting reinfected yet.


----------



## Morkolo

Looked out my kitchen window today only to see my backdoor neighbor in his late 60's shoveling off his patio in a tshirt. It was only 3°C at the time, not the best idea during a pandemic.


----------



## vadsy

Morkolo said:


> Looked out my kitchen window today only to see my backdoor neighbor in his late 60's shoveling off his patio in a tshirt. It was only 3°C at the time, not the best idea during a pandemic.


that’s ok, mine is in his 70’s, battled back from something like pneumonia over Christmas, on oxygen and asked me to take him fishing yesterday. I asked him if he was feeling ok and he told me if he was gonna die he wanted to go doing what he loved, didn’t care about the virus.


----------



## Guitar101

mike_oxbig said:


> I could have probably googled this, but does anyone know if it’s like the chicken pox where you can only catch it once, or will it just keep circulating?


From the Covid-19 reporting I've heard and that's quite a bit, all of the doctors interviewed all say you probably build an immunity to the virus once you've beat it. The main reason they say this is "all corona virus's act this way". Then they always add "but we can't say this for sure because we don't have the data to support it". CYA


----------



## allthumbs56

vadsy said:


> that’s ok, mine is in his 70’s, battled back from something like pneumonia over Christmas, on oxygen and asked me to take him fishing yesterday. I asked him if he was feeling ok and he told me if he was gonna die he wanted to go doing what he loved, didn’t care about the virus.


Not a good time to be chummy with a death wish.


----------



## vadsy

allthumbs56 said:


> Not a good time to be chummy with a death wish.


at this point I'm not even sure how to respond to the guy. he's been much further down the road than I have and I think he's come to terms with certain areas of his life. I'll stay where I am and do what I can but I ain't telling the man what to do


----------



## Wardo

You reach a point where it’s end game and you start seeing things differently.


----------



## vadsy




----------



## Wardo

Doctor death will see you now.


----------



## Electraglide

Morkolo said:


> Looked out my kitchen window today only to see my backdoor neighbor in his late 60's shoveling off his patio in a tshirt. It was only 3°C at the time, not the best idea during a pandemic.


It's above freezing and you're shoveling snow in a t-shirt......hope he has pants and shoes on too. If there is no one around I don't think it would be a problem, wouldn't even catch a cold. Might give a heart attack but that's about it.


----------



## sulphur

This was already posted...


----------



## laristotle

Please don't fling your gloves: City officials
_
As concerns about coronavirus cut deep into the city and beyond, so, too, have complaints over piles of blue nitrile gloves appearing in parking lots, sidewalks and gutters — many discarded by shoppers after they finish buying groceries or other necessities.

“I ask our residents observe good behaviour and dispose of their waste … be it PPE or otherwise,” Dr. Eileen de Villa said Wednesday.

de Villa wants those discarding gloves to take a few moments to either toss them into a garbage can, or take them home for proper disposal._


----------



## torndownunit

View attachment 301518


laristotle said:


> Please don't fling your gloves: City officials
> _
> As concerns about coronavirus cut deep into the city and beyond, so, too, have complaints over piles of blue nitrile gloves appearing in parking lots, sidewalks and gutters — many discarded by shoppers after they finish buying groceries or other necessities.
> 
> “I ask our residents observe good behaviour and dispose of their waste … be it PPE or otherwise,” Dr. Eileen de Villa said Wednesday.
> 
> de Villa wants those discarding gloves to take a few moments to either toss them into a garbage can, or take them home for proper disposal._


I've seen masks thrown on the ground too. Meanwhile the hospitals who actually need those masks have a shortage. My local hospital is doing a drive trying to get more equipment.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Politicians who consider sacrificing the old for the sake of the economy face a backlash: Don Pittis | CBC News


----------



## laristotle

_But even if politicians don't care about the idea of a social contract, they may be inclined to listen, because repeated studies show that old people vote and the young don't._


----------



## laristotle




----------



## sulphur

torndownunit said:


> View attachment 301518
> 
> 
> I've seen masks thrown on the ground too. Meanwhile the hospitals who actually need those masks have a shortage. My local hospital is doing a drive trying to get more equipment.
> 
> View attachment 301520


Shortages at our local hospital too.


----------



## sulphur




----------



## SaucyJack

New York looks like they're pretty much fucked.


----------



## sulphur

SaucyJack said:


> New York looks like they're pretty much fucked.


I heard that Florida, of all places, is screening anyone arriving from NY state.

They should check their own beaches first.


----------



## Milkman

As I seldom (never?) get an opportunity like this and I don't know how long the storm will last, while I'm working from home I have decided to grow out my face and head.

Other than trimming (I'd look like frigging Chewbaca if I didn't trim) I am letting my freak flag fly as the saying goes.

Now, I know as soon as I post a picture of myself, at least one of my 'loyal followers" will have a kinipchin fit because of the evils of selfies. I don't get it but it is what it is.

Anyone else letting their face grow fallow?


----------



## Guitar101

Heart - Crazy On You (Intro) from my son Jake who's complying with government requests for Covid-19 social distancing.


----------



## Milkman

Guitar101 said:


> Crazy On You (Intro) from my son Jake who's complying with government requests for Covid-19 social distancing.


I think that intro is called Silver Wheels?

I learned it and taught it to quite a few students back in the day. Nicely done.


----------



## knight_yyz

Milkman said:


> As I seldom (never?) get an opportunity like this and I don't know how long the storm will last, while I'm working from home I have decided to grow out my face and head.
> 
> Other than trimming (I'd look like frigging Chewbaca if I didn't trim) I am letting my freak flag fly as the saying goes.
> 
> Now, I know as soon as I post a picture of myself, at least one of my 'loyal followers" will have a kinipchin fit because of the evils of selfies. I don't get it but it is what it is.
> 
> Anyone else letting their face grow fallow?
> 
> View attachment 301532


I can't get a haircut anywhere so I am going to say fuck it and let it all grow.


----------



## Milkman

knight_yyz said:


> I can't get a haircut anywhere so I am going to say fuck it and let it all grow.



I have no such excuse as I do my own manscaping. I _am _saving a small fortune in Fusion Proglide cartridges.


----------



## knight_yyz

I'll be looking like Sib Hashian in about 3 months


----------



## Milkman

knight_yyz said:


> I'll be looking like Sib Hashian in about 3 months



LMAO, I'll probably look closer to Art Garfunkel.


----------



## Guitar101

Hey Milkman!

_I think that intro is called Silver Wheels: _What the heck is Silver Wheels.
_I do my own manscaping: _Way too much information.


----------



## Milkman

Guitar101 said:


> Hey Milkman!
> 
> _I think that intro is called Silver Wheels: _What the heck is Silver Wheels.
> _I do my own manscaping: _Way too much information.


I was mistaken. Silver wheels is an acoustic piece maybe preceding the Crazy on you intro.





No, I leave that stuff to nature. I'm referring to the manscaping ABOVE my shirt collar. Better?


----------



## knight_yyz




----------



## allthumbs56

knight_yyz said:


> I can't get a haircut anywhere so I am going to say fuck it and let it all grow.


Ditto. There's no way I'm letting Maggs near my head with scissors


----------



## JazzyT

Guitar101 said:


> From the Covid-19 reporting I've heard and that's quite a bit, all of the doctors interviewed all say you probably build an immunity to the virus once you've beat it. *The main reason they say this is "all corona virus's act this way"*. Then they always add "but we can't say this for sure because we don't have the data to support it". CYA


I thought the common cold was caused by a coronavirus.


----------



## Milkman

JazzyT said:


> I thought the common cold was caused by a coronavirus.



Maybe a Rhino-virus?


----------



## allthumbs56

Milkman said:


> I have no such excuse as I do my own manscaping. I _am _saving a small fortune in Fusion Proglide cartridges.


Fusion Proglide? Is that some kind of modeler or FRFR?


----------



## knight_yyz

You're both partially right. 70 percent of colds cause by 3 virus groups and the other 30 percent caused by unknown 'bugs'


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> View attachment 301522


----------



## Milkman

Medical experts warn against claims by Winnipeg acupuncturist advertising 'coronavirus prevention tea' | CBC News


----------



## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> As I seldom (never?) get an opportunity like this and I don't know how long the storm will last, while I'm working from home I have decided to grow out my face and head.
> 
> Other than trimming (I'd look like frigging Chewbaca if I didn't trim) I am letting my freak flag fly as the saying goes.
> 
> Now, I know as soon as I post a picture of myself, at least one of my 'loyal followers" will have a kinipchin fit because of the evils of selfies. I don't get it but it is what it is.
> 
> Anyone else letting their face grow fallow?
> 
> View attachment 301532


If not cutting it for almost 2 years means letting it grow then yes. Among other things it's a secondary food source. Evils of selfies, nope, not evil.....just scary. Last time I had hair that short was in the mid 60's just after I had my hair roached.....instead of letting it grow out I shaved it and found out about sunburned scalp.


----------



## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> I have no such excuse as I do my own manscaping. I _am _saving a small fortune in Fusion Proglide cartridges.


Manscaping? That's right up there with "letting your freak flag fly". Strange. Plus I thought manscaping was done around the 'little head' instead of the big one.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Milkman

Electraglide said:


> Manscaping? That's right up there with "letting your freak flag fly". Strange. Plus I thought manscaping was done around the 'little head' instead of the big one.


Funny I figured you would be familiar with "letting your freak flag fly". It's a line in "almost cut my hair" from the CSN & Y Deja Vu album and was a figure of speech in the 60s, but ok.

As for what you choose to do with a razor, that's up to you. I don't bother with anything below the neck line myself. YMMV.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

It looks like Bosch has been putting some effort into the cause.

New Bosch rapid test can detect coronavirus in 2.5 hours


----------



## Doug Gifford

knight_yyz said:


> I can't get a haircut anywhere so I am going to say fuck it and let it all grow.


I stopped getting my hair cut about ten years ago. It got to be about a foot long then it stopped getting longer. So I just look like an old man with long white hair.


----------



## mhammer

Jim DaddyO said:


> There have been at least one report of someone being reinfected. I think she worked on a tour bus if I recall correctly. A Chinese team did a small monkey test and report no reinfection in Reese's monkeys. They used 4 of them. So, who really knows. We do know that there are 2 strains, type L and type S, so it seems to be able to mutate pretty readily. Did the reported reinfected person have one strain and then the other? That was never said. Given that it mutated to infect humans from animals, then mutated to be able to travel human to human, then into 2 strains, in less than 6 months, anything is possible. But the small limited study says no at this time. "At this time" being the operative part of the sentence. Seems there is not much that is for sure around this.


Gah! *Rhesus *monkeys. Reese's make pieces, not monkeys, though occasionally those pieces make monkeys of us. 

The rate at which organisms mutate is a function of their complexity and reproduction rate. So, simple organisms replicate quickly and mutate more quickly as well. Complex mammalian lifeforms can take a long time to reproduce, don't make many when they do, and so evolve - as a function of mutations - _very_ slowly, compared to simple life-forms, single-celled things like bacteria, and even less complex things like viruses.

As much as, from western perspectives, many diseases have been "wiped out" by vaccines and much improved early-detection, there are many things that still exist in small pockets here and there. Malaria, typhoid, smallpox, polio, tuberculosis all continue to exist, just not in ways that provide any great threat to the population. I'm sure swine flu, avian flu, SARS, MERS, ebola. and all the other things that sent us into a justifiable tizzy, continue to exist in very small pockets, and this will too.


----------



## 10409




----------



## knight_yyz

Doug Gifford said:


> I stopped getting my hair cut about ten years ago. It got to be about a foot long then it stopped getting longer. So I just look like an old man with long white hair.


Mine doesn't grow long. It gets thick and curly and starts to look like an extra large helmet. It will never ever grow down my back...


----------



## Milkman

knight_yyz said:


> Mine doesn't grow long. It gets thick and curly and starts to look like an extra large helmet. It will never ever grow down my back...


----------



## Doug Gifford

This Kingston doctor keeps writing intelligent, informed blogs: johnageddes


----------



## mhammer

Chito said:


> There were actually 2 cases of reinfection in the news, one is what you have mentioned. So there's really no concrete evidence of getting reinfected yet.


And keep in mind that it takes time for one's immune system to produce antibodies, and that there are individual differences in immune system strength. A person could contract the virus again before they had developed enough of an immune response to wrestle any incoming virus to the ground.

As an aside, many of the developments in rapid diagnosis using blood tests assess the presence of antibodies. So as wonderful as it is to have quick efficient testing, I wonder how many misses it will risk in those cases of people who get tested before they have produced much in the way of antibodies. It may well not be an issue. I have no idea.


----------



## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> Funny I figured you would be familiar with "letting your freak flag fly". It's a line in "almost cut my hair" from the CSN & Y Deja Vu album and was a figure of speech in the 60s, but ok.
> 
> As for what you choose to do with a razor, that's up to you. I don't bother with anything below the neck line myself. YMMV.


I don't recall it from the 60's but then I don't recall a lot after about '65 or so to around the mid '70s. Injured a lot of grey cells. Never considered myself a 'freak' but then I wasn't a hippie either. Just a long haired biker. Guess I'll have to listen to "Almost Cut My Hair". It's been probably 30 years since I last heard Deja Vu. Had a girlfriend who wanted me to "manscape". Said she'd do it. I took out the straight razor and said only if I could do her. She changed her mind and told me she loved me the way I was. That love lasted for another month of so.


----------



## Milkman

Electraglide said:


> I don't recall it from the 60's but then I don't recall a lot after about '65 or so to around the mid '70s. Injured a lot of grey cells. Never considered myself a 'freak' but then I wasn't a hippie either. Just a long haired biker. Guess I'll have to listen to "Almost Cut My Hair". It's been probably 30 years since I last heard Deja Vu. Had a girlfriend who wanted me to "manscape". Said she'd do it. I took out the straight razor and said only if I could do her. She changed her mind and told me she loved me the way I was. That love lasted for another month of so.



Great tune, worth another listen IMO.

*Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young Lyrics*
*"Almost Cut My Hair"*

I almost cut my hair
It happened just the other day
It was gettin' kinda long
I could-a said, it was in my way
But I didn't and I wonder why
I feel like letting my freak flag fly
And I feel like I owe it to someone

Must be because I had the flu for Christmas
And I'm not feelin' up to par
It increases my paranoia
Like lookin' at my mirror and seein' a police car
But I'm not givin' in an inch to fear
Cause I promised myself this year
I feel like I owe it to someone

When I finally get myself together
I'm gonna get down in that sunny southern weather
And I find a place inside to laugh
Separate the wheat from the chaff
I feel like I owe it to someone


----------



## Electraglide

Jim DaddyO said:


> It looks like Bosch has been putting some effort into the cause.
> 
> New Bosch rapid test can detect coronavirus in 2.5 hours


Seems like this guy has a few testing systems out there too. If he can do 1.5 mill a week why aren't they being produced elsewhere. Same with the Bosch one and others. 
A coronavirus test can be developed in 24 hours. So why are some countries still struggling to diagnose? - CNN


----------



## 10409

I’m 36 and can grow a wicked puberty beard. I hate shaving though just use the buzzer so I’m always a tad scruffy.


----------



## mhammer

Electraglide said:


> If not cutting it for almost 2 years means letting it grow then yes. Among other things it's a *secondary food source*. Evils of selfies, nope, not evil.....just scary. Last time I had hair that short was in the mid 60's just after I had my hair roached.....instead of letting it grow out I shaved it and found out about sunburned scalp.


Nearly "replenished my chin pantry" when I read that.  How true, how true.
I'm 30-months post-haircut and about 16 months post-shave, myself. I'm pondering a bit of a chin trim these days. My wife's complaining, and if I'm watching TV in bed, unless I'm sitting straight up, the beard tends to get pushed up to obscure my view. I know I can regrow whatever I've trimmed from the chin and jowls. The scalp I'm less confident about. A hairbrush tends to gather more from the one than from the other.


----------



## 10409

New Bosch rapid test can detect coronavirus in 2.5 hours

This is good, now the guys at Bosch just have to make batteries that last 2.5 hours


----------



## 10409

Jim DaddyO said:


> It looks like Bosch has been putting some effort into the cause.
> 
> New Bosch rapid test can detect coronavirus in 2.5 hours


Damnit Jim


----------



## allthumbs56

Jim DaddyO said:


> It looks like Bosch has been putting some effort into the cause.
> 
> New Bosch rapid test can detect coronavirus in 2.5 hours


Wow.

_It takes just 100 devices to evaluate up to 1,000 tests per day. In the laboratory, Bosch recorded results with an accuracy of over 95 percent. The rapid test meets the quality standards of the World Health Organisation (WHO).
_​So one device can do 10 tests a day. Amazing given that right now it probably takes a day just to transport a test to the nearest lab. Still it's gonna take a lot of machines and a lot of days.

**edit**

Just ran some figures briefly. If we had 10,000 machines doing 10 tests a day it would take 370 days to test all Canadians.


----------



## mhammer

Electraglide said:


> Seems like this guy has a few testing systems out there too. If he can do 1.5 mill a week why aren't they being produced elsewhere. Same with the Bosch one and others.
> A coronavirus test can be developed in 24 hours. So why are some countries still struggling to diagnose? - CNN


The test kit may be cheap, but liquid scintillation counters (the machine that "counts the light flashes", and technology that this test depends on) are _*not*_ cheap.


----------



## greco

mhammer said:


> The test kit may be cheap, but liquid scintillation counters (the machine that "counts the light flashes", and technology that this test depends on) are _*not*_ cheap.


Just saw this...
UW researchers aim to improve COVID-19 screening with AI - KitchenerToday.com


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> Nearly "replenished my chin pantry" when I read that.  How true, how true.
> I'm 30-months post-haircut and about 16 months post-shave, myself. I'm pondering a bit of a chin trim these days. My wife's complaining, and if I'm watching TV in bed, unless I'm sitting straight up, the beard tends to get pushed up to obscure my view. I know I can regrow whatever I've trimmed from the chin and jowls. The scalp I'm less confident about. A hairbrush tends to gather more from the one than from the other.


Years back I decided the trim my beard and my hair....get it cut back to about shoulder length. Trimmed the beard back to about 2 inches long and jumped on the bike with my 2nd wife to go get a "hair cut". While I was getting the hair cut the girl asked if I wanted to have around my mustache cleaned up. She was rather amply endowed so I said ok. I had my eyes closed and was enjoying the closeness when I heard a 'snip' and an "Oh no". Opening my eyes I noticed that about 4 inches, the waxed part, of one side of my mustache was gone. After saying a few things I got up from the chair, paid my bill and left. My ex was not impressed with getting hit in the face with wet hair. When it was long it was usually wrapped in 3 or 4 places. On the ride home, because there was no beard to stop it, something smacked into my collarbone and stung me. Since then I leave the "trimming" to nature.


----------



## sulphur




----------



## knight_yyz

Milkman said:


> View attachment 301574


Definitely not what I meant. I cannot grow a ponytail. That's why I mentioned the drummer from Boston.


----------



## Milkman

knight_yyz said:


> Definitely not what I meant. I cannot grow a ponytail. That's why I mentioned the drummer from Boston.



I know, I know.

That pic even grossed _me_ out, LOL.


----------



## boyscout

Forget about people dying, the worst fallout from the corona virus will be the jokes about it.


----------



## mhammer

boyscout said:


> Forget about people dying, the worst fallout from the corona virus will be the jokes about it.
> 
> View attachment 301582


Really, it needs to go in the puns-you-like thread. But its relevance and timeliness make it apropos here. Much appreciated.


----------



## colchar

In response to criticism about lack of available government tests in the UK (why blame the government when this is a worldwide issue?), Boris has announced that home testing kits will be available for purchase online and in pharmacies in a few days.


----------



## mhammer

More importantly, how are you feeling?


----------



## knight_yyz

Tim Hortons is closing all restaurants on Monday. No take out, no delivery and no drive through.
A few may still stay open if they are close to a hospital


----------



## Milkman

knight_yyz said:


> Tim Hortons is closing all restaurants. No take out, no delivery and no drive through.
> A few may still stay open if they are close to a hospital


This could be devastating for Tims. Once people realize that almost ANY coffee tastes better than theirs...…..


----------



## tdotrob

Milkman said:


> This could be devastating for Tims. Once people realize that almost ANY coffee tastes better than theirs...…..


McCafe be all like



http://imgur.com/t


----------



## boyscout

colchar said:


> In response to criticism about lack of available government tests in the UK (why blame the government when this is a worldwide issue?), Boris has announced that home testing kits will be available for purchase online and in pharmacies in a few days.


What's the plan for evaluating the tests? If people buy a test and send the swabs somewhere and it takes weeks to get them returned there will be a whole new pandemic of anger.


----------



## colchar

boyscout said:


> What's the plan for evaluating the tests? If people buy a test and send the swabs somewhere and it takes weeks to get them returned there will be a whole new pandemic of anger.



It is a home testing kit which gives you results (fairly quickly if I remember correctly). It tells you whether you have it, or whether you had it and have the antibodies.


----------



## JazzyT

Milkman said:


> This could be devastating for Tims. Once people realize that almost ANY coffee tastes better than theirs...…..


We had an Italian exchange student live with us. Every morning she used her Moka to make delicious smelling coffee sludge.










She complained that Starbucks coffee ... wasn't strong enough. 

And ... she liked Tim Hortons! She didn't think of it as coffee. For her, she ordered sweet, frozen slushies that had some coffee in them and you couldn't get in Italy because they are so traditional about coffee.


----------



## tdotrob

JazzyT said:


> We had an Italian exchange student live with us. Every morning she used her Moka to make delicious smelling coffee sludge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She complained that Starbucks coffee ... wasn't strong enough.
> 
> And ... she liked Tim Hortons! She didn't think of it as coffee. For her, she ordered sweet, frozen slushies that had some coffee in them and you couldn't get in Italy because they are so traditional about coffee.


Do you have a fever? Was her name Isabella? Sorry all I could think of is this


----------



## allthumbs56

colchar said:


> It is a home testing kit which gives you results (fairly quickly if I remember correctly). It tells you whether you have it, or whether you had it and have the antibodies.


..... or pregnant?


----------



## colchar

allthumbs56 said:


> ..... or pregnant?



Exactly what I was thinking of.


----------



## mhammer

colchar said:


> It is a home testing kit which gives you results (fairly quickly if I remember correctly). It tells you whether you have it, or whether you had it and have the antibodies.


As I think I noted earlier, the problem with testing for antibodies is that if a person has developed them, such tests will spot them. But if one's immune system is a little on the sluggish side, and you simply haven't developed them yet, a person can come up as not infected, when they really might be. It's not exactly a litmus test. For many folks, it may well be. The problem is that, under the present circumstances, one wants to identify asymptomatic recently-infected persons just as badly as you want to identify and isolate clearly infected persons.


----------



## colchar

mhammer said:


> More importantly, how are you feeling?



Me?

Achy, sore, tired, sore throat, alternating fever and chills, and generally like a bag of smashed arseholes.

I definitely have something, but I doubt it is Covid-19 unless this is just the start or I have extremely mild symptoms.

Thanks for asking.


----------



## Milkman

colchar said:


> Me?
> 
> Achy, sore, tired, sore throat, alternating fever and chills, and generally like a bag of smashed arseholes.
> 
> I definitely have something, but I doubt it is Covid-19 unless this is just the start or I have extremely mild symptoms.
> 
> Thanks for asking.


That's one of the more uncomfortable elements of this situation. It's possible that many have the virus and have mild symptoms and are unwittingly infecting others.

In a sense it might be better if what you have IS Covid-19 and that it is manifesting itself in this way, so hopefully no danger to you.

At least that will put this is the past for you in some sense.


----------



## tomee2

Milkman said:


> Medical experts warn against claims by Winnipeg acupuncturist advertising 'coronavirus prevention tea' | CBC News


Warn? Can't they be charged with something?


----------



## knight_yyz

Sorry. As a dog lover trying to train a 3 year old rescue who was never trained in her life, I found this to be hilarious...


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> That's one of the more uncomfortable elements of this situation. It's possible that many have the virus and have mild symptoms and are unwittingly infecting others.
> 
> In a sense it might be better if what you have IS Covid-19 and that it is manifesting itself in this way, so hopefully no danger to you.
> 
> At least that will put this is the past for you in some sense.



Agreed, except that I have my elderly mother living with me who has diabetes, kidney problems, and early stage Alzheimer's. If she gets this she will likely die. Even if she doesn't, she would have to be hospitalized and that would mess her up worse because seniors tend to become very disoriented in hospitals, and in the current situation we wouldn't even be allowed to visit her (especially not me).


----------



## mhammer

colchar said:


> Me?
> 
> Achy, sore, tired, sore throat, alternating fever and chills, and generally like a bag of smashed arseholes.
> 
> I definitely have something, but I doubt it is Covid-19 unless this is just the start or I have extremely mild symptoms.
> 
> Thanks for asking.


Well certainly do what you can to get better. A couple of podcasts lined up, a mug of something, a blanket on the couch, and the resulting nap is something I always find helpful. And of course, a bowl of whatever your "sick soup" is. _Everybody_ has a "sick soup"; the one they associate with being laid up and having someone else take care of them. The soup doesn't cure one, but the resulting nap helps a lot. If you have to go out for something, for yourself or your mum, at the very least you don't want to be treated like a leper, even if it's just a routine head cold.

Get well soon. We have bickering to do!


----------



## colchar

tomee2 said:


> Warn? Can't they be charged with something?



I got into an argument with someone yesterday who claims their holistic vet (seriously, that's actually a thing) had it (the person was never tested, they just claim to have had symptoms) and not only cured themselves but has prevented their family from getting it. The person I was arguing with claimed that this holistic vet deals with humans too (ie. her family) and is a doctor in every sense of the word. When I read up on the info the vet was putting out there my head was ready to explode. This is a person who claims some sort of silver is the best preventative out there, along with things like double helix water (which she also claims cures cancer). And of course she has all of this shit available for sale.

The person I was arguing with actually claimed that people like us, who listen to qualified medical doctors and scientists, are the real cause of the pandemic and that we have blood on our hands. Apparently if we all used magnets, crystals, and whatever other hocus pocus bullshit was being peddled none of this would be happening.

Edited to add:

I decided to pop onto Facebook so that I could copy the email that this vet sent out to her suckers. At the bottom she states that it can be posted to Facebook, so I copied it for posting here. Enjoy!

_Hi friends,

I'm pretty sure I got the COVID 19 Virus. I had all the symptoms. Fever, fatigue, dry cough, sore throat and some body aches.

I'd been traveling from New Zealand through LAX (what a terrible airport!) across the US and then drove up the East Coast back to PA. At first, I attributed the dry cough to the heaters in hotel rooms and that extra warm feeling to the car heat being too high. Then the fatigue and sore throat hit and I knew I had it.

I should tell you right away that I did not get tested. I would have loved to have been able to get a test. First of all, I didn't have a local doctor (as I just arrived after 14 years of being away) to write me a note for the test. Additionally, the drive through testing places were not in my area - and any I could get to had reports of long lines and large crowds.... and I felt like S**T and so had no desire to go through that. However, I had the keynote symptoms and I've never had anything like this before.

But, because I had set up everything I might need before the trip I had it all ready. I was sick for less than 3 days - maybe 5 days if you count my two days of denial.

What did I do?

Number 1. I had my M.D. in New Zealand give me 200,000 IU of Vitamin D intramuscular so my D levels would be very high. 

Number 2. I took 600 mg of Monolaurin by Ecological Formulas twice a day every day. When I was wondering if the cough was 'the virus' or the hotel heat, I upped that to 2 pills twice a day.

Number 3. I took a teaspoon of Argentyn 23 Colloidal Silver three to four times a day during the drive and upped it to 6x a day when I realized I had the virus. Sovereign Silver is also good and I used some of that when the other ran low.

Number 4. I took vitamin C all day. Most of the oral vitamin C you take orally is excreted so you have to drink it all day long. I use Perque buffered vitamin C as the doctor who makes the product was my client with his dog and he is obsessive about making the perfect supplement.

Number 5. I put Oregano Oil and boiling water into a bowl and inhaled it through my nose and through my mouth. This kills the virus in your lungs, sinuses and throat. I also took a hot bath 4x a day with oregano oil inhaling deeply.

Number 6. I took Barlean's Olive Leaf Complex 16 ounces and would take half an ounce to gargle with twice a day. This also kills the virus in your throat.

Number 7. I had Boiron's Oscillococcinum on hand (you can get this at any health food store and you take this at the first sign of any flu) and took just a few tiny pellets 4-6 times a day.

After arriving in PA on Wednesday...well... I knew by Friday that I was genuinely ill and had all the symptoms. I began with #4 and #5 and #6 in earnest.

I wondered how I would fare on Saturday. Would I take a turn for the worse on Sunday? After sleeping for about 15 hours straight having gone to bed at 4 p.m. on Saturday, I woke up feeling pretty good on Sunday. I was little tired and not ready to run that extra mile, but comfortable that I was on the mend.

A few more days of not pushing myself and I will be better than new.

I did consults all day and at 4 p.m. am certainly ready for a rest. I have not done my regime as I've been on the phone all day.

I wanted to share this with all of you right now so that you have this on hand... just in case.

I'd learned from very reliable high level sources that this virus cannot survive colloidal silver. You all have my email explaining how the nano particle colloidal silver is totally different from any other. In my opinion, the colloidal silver is a keystone of the treatment. But, all of the above works synergistically. 

Stay well and love you all,

Dr. Khalsa

P.S. You can put this on Facebook or send this to anyone you think would need it._


----------



## colchar

mhammer said:


> Well certainly do what you can to get better. A couple of podcasts lined up, a mug of something, a blanket on the couch, and the resulting nap is something I always find helpful. And of course, a bowl of whatever your "sick soup" is. _Everybody_ has a "sick soup"; the one they associate with being laid up and having someone else take care of them. The soup doesn't cure one, but the resulting nap helps a lot. If you have to go out for something, for yourself or your mum, at the very least you don't want to be treated like a leper, even if it's just a routine head cold.
> 
> Get well soon. We have bickering to do!



You wanna come tell my dog about this nap idea? He understands them when he takes them, but otherwise??????????


----------



## knight_yyz

Colloidal Silver IIRC...

Another form of snake oil. More harmful to you than good.


----------



## Milkman

mhammer said:


> Well certainly do what you can to get better. A couple of podcasts lined up, a mug of something, a blanket on the couch, and the resulting nap is something I always find helpful. And of course, a bowl of whatever your "sick soup" is. _Everybody_ has a "sick soup"; the one they associate with being laid up and having someone else take care of them. The soup doesn't cure one, but the resulting nap helps a lot. If you have to go out for something, for yourself or your mum, at the very least you don't want to be treated like a leper, even if it's just a routine head cold.
> 
> Get well soon. We have bickering to do!



I recommend.....oh nevermind.


----------



## colchar

knight_yyz said:


> Colloidal Silver IIRC...
> 
> Another form of snake oil. More harmful to you than good.



See above. And apparently this person doesn't grasp that drinking something means you take it orally. See her comments about vitamin C.


----------



## mhammer

colchar said:


> You wanna come tell my dog about this nap idea? He understands them when he takes them, but otherwise??????????


At the very least, it seems like the telemarketers have desisted during this period. Perhaps because the "boiler rooms" have been forced to shut down.

For your dog, maybe you need a solution like this one:


----------



## Guitar101

Milkman said:


> This could be devastating for Tims. Once people realize that almost ANY coffee tastes better than theirs...…..


That or you may consider having your taste buds tested. Maybe it's you?


----------



## allthumbs56

colchar said:


> It is a home testing kit which gives you results (fairly quickly if I remember correctly). It tells you whether you have it, or whether you had it and have the antibodies.


Someone published this one already:

New Virus Test Shortens Wait to 2.5 Hours From Two Days

Not as convenient as an in-home test but the test and results are done by the machine at a testing center. It can turn around the results in 2.5 hours. Amazing compared to the existing process. Still, 10,000 machines working around the clock would take more than 370 days to test all of Canada.

Hate to say it but 14 days in the penalty box is the only practical test we have in appropriate supply for the near future.


----------



## allthumbs56

mhammer said:


> At the very least, it seems like the telemarketers have desisted during this period. Perhaps because the "boiler rooms" have been forced to shut down.
> 
> For your dog, maybe you need a solution like this one:


1.3 billion telemarketers are currently in isolation


----------



## mhammer

allthumbs56 said:


> 1.3 billion telemarketers are currently in isolation


Thank goodness for small miracles.


----------



## knight_yyz

Any time a dog is exhibiting unwanted behaviour you have to ignore them! They will eventually learn that no reaction means stop doing this.


----------



## Milkman

Guitar101 said:


> That or you may consider having your taste buds tested. Maybe it's you?


Impossible.


----------



## knight_yyz

Wow... Vitamin C. Not. Ester C? LoL. 

I used a naturopath for a while when I was having problems. 1 year she gave my ex-wife and I a very tiny bottle each of something. The pills were very small. You took a few a few times a day. That year, both kids got the flu, but neither the ex nor I got the flu that year. I wonder if it was _Oscillococcinum. 
_


----------



## colchar

knight_yyz said:


> Tim Hortons is closing all restaurants on Monday. No take out, no delivery and no drive through.
> A few may still stay open if they are close to a hospital



Where did you see this? It isn't even mentioned on their webpage.


----------



## knight_yyz

I have seen 2 articles but after speaking with people who work there, it's fake news. My apologies....

Tim Hortons Canada Just Closed All Restaurants, Drive-Thru And Delivery - Canada Eh?


----------



## colchar

knight_yyz said:


> I have seen 2 articles but after speaking with people who work there, it's fake news. My apologies....
> 
> Tim Hortons Canada Just Closed All Restaurants, Drive-Thru And Delivery - Canada Eh?



My pup Riley will be thrilled as he has a special love for old fashioned plain donuts from the special treat store.


----------



## Stephenlouis

mhammer said:


> Beten the upwing in Netfl/Crave/et al use, stremed concerts, on-l, on-line religus servicessiness conference calls on-line, pele wrking fr home,d other related ngs, the current scenario wainly test the bandwidth limits of the internet "bone".


What? You are cutting out.


----------



## vadsy

colchar said:


> My pup Riley will be thrilled as he has a special love for old fashioned plain donuts from the special treat store.


do they consider that animal cruelty?


----------



## vadsy




----------



## Jim DaddyO

colchar said:


> I got into an argument with someone yesterday who claims their holistic vet (seriously, that's actually a thing) had it (the person was never tested, they just claim to have had symptoms) and not only cured themselves but has prevented their family from getting it.


You met my Mother in Law?

She swears by Dr. Bergman, some naturopathic/chiropractor quack who's videos get taken down shortly after being put up because the advise is so horrible.

Oh, she is always sick too. I think she needs to find better advise. Also an anti vaxxer, though at her age, she has no dog in the race, she got hers. But she sure lets her opinion be known.


----------



## JazzyT

tdotrob said:


> Do you have a fever? Was her name Isabella? Sorry all I could think of is this


No, she was a skinny kid with glasses.


----------



## 10409

Shake n bake baby, if you’re not first you’re last


----------



## colchar

Jim DaddyO said:


> You met my Mother in Law?
> 
> She swears by Dr. Bergman, some naturopathic/chiropractor quack who's videos get taken down shortly after being put up because the advise is so horrible.
> 
> Oh, she is always sick too. I think she needs to find better advise. Also an anti vaxxer, though at her age, she has no dog in the race, she got hers. But she sure lets her opinion be known.



Let's see if she sticks to that when they develop a vaccine for this shit. I'm betting she won't.

I reported the post above to Facepuke and, despite that shit being dangerous right now and actually criminal in some jurisdictions, their response was that it did not violate their community standards and was just something that I personally didn't like......................


----------



## mhammer

Do you mean the listing of cases? Those are simply the numbers collated, and constantly updated, here: Coronavirus Update (Live): 527,791 Cases and 23,937 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer

The number of cases reported, of course, depends on the extent of testing, the willingness of governments to release/report the information, and for many nations, the size/capacity of their public health administration to be able to actually gather the information. So, some reported numbers are suspect, but if it's a G20 country the info is reasonably reliable.

Ah, on second thought, I gather you're referring to the quack Jim Daddy-O's mother-in-law is consulting.
Never mind, carry on.


----------



## boyscout

Airline passengers whose flights have been cancelled due to the pandemic are having to fight for refunds from the airlines. The airlines are offering vouchers for future flights, using a not-legally-binding statement by the Canadian Transportation Agency as justification for doing that instead of refunding.

The airlines are required to REFUND!

Canadian airlines refusing cash refunds for COVID-19 cancellations - 680 NEWS

_Many airlines are offering vouchers for future trips but not cash back. It’s a situation that’s left passengers coast-to-coast furious and floating around in a legal grey zone.

This week the Canadian Transportation Agency weighed in on their website, admitting their recently released air passenger bill of rights legislation doesn’t address the “the sorts of worldwide mass flight cancellations that have taken place over recent weeks as a result of the pandemic.”

When it comes to COVID-19 refunds the CTA highlighted the importance to “strike a fair and sensible balance between passenger protection and airlines’ operational realities.” It goes on to say that “generally speaking, an appropriate approach in the current context could be for airlines to provide affected passengers with vouchers or credits for future travel.”

Air Passenger Rights advocate Gabor Lucas believes the CTA’s statement “deliberately and knowingly” misleads the public. He tells CityNews the CTA’s statement is being “portrayed” by airlines as a legal binding document but it’s not.

CityNews reached out to the Canadian Transportation Agency and asked them if they had concerns about how their online opinion post might be interpreted. CTA communications staff had yet to respond.

Lucas is adamant, “The law is clear and unambiguous that a full refund to the original form of payment is owed to passengers. It has been confirmed in numerous legally binding decisions by the CTA.”_


----------



## Jim DaddyO

boyscout said:


> The airlines are required to REFUND!


We are rapidly seeing which companies are concerned about their customers.


----------



## 10409




----------



## Dorian2

Bill Gates gonna be on CNN toot sweet.


----------



## vadsy




----------



## keto

mike_oxbig said:


>


Couple pretty serious groaners in that lot.


----------



## keto

vadsy said:


>


I'm with them. Things would be a lot worse in the 'deaths' department if it were THAT dangerous, I still maintain and even at this pace, I think that cases are way undertested therefore uncounted therefore skewing many or most of the other numbers so far less dangerous, not to say that it is nothing. But we're seeing enough regional outbreaks flatten out when counting how many and who dead to understand at least somewhat that what we're doing is going to work, and parts of the USA might be the test case for the other end of the isolation scale. See how much herd immunity is really built up.


----------



## silvertonebetty

Well its official 9 cases in pei and two in west prince. That means that it is time to stay home. And start saving for a new taylor. I think the 324 center v class looks nice 

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk


----------



## silvertonebetty

keto said:


> Couple pretty serious groaners in that lot.


If ihas saw this earlier I would have message laura one of those lol. 

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jim DaddyO

New York is seriously messed up...take a tour of a hospital. They had to bring in a refrigerated transport trailer for somewhere to put the bodies.


[MEDIA=nytimes]100000007052136[/MEDIA]


----------



## colchar

keto said:


> *Couple pretty serious groaners* in that lot.



Wouldn't that depend on who you managed to pick up with those lines?


----------



## colchar

silvertonebetty said:


> Well its official 9 cases in pei and two in west prince. That means that it is time to stay home. And start saving for a new taylor. I think the 324 center v class looks nice
> 
> Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk



We should all move to Nunavut, they don't have any cases.


----------



## colchar

"_Nitrile gloves: 200,000
Face shields: 50,118
Coveralls: 36, 425
Aprons: 3,000
Goggles: 1,820
Masks: 1,101

All of those items are at the top of the list of needs for every hospital, every paramedic unit and every health care centre currently dealing with the pandemic but we sent them to China._"

And they are trying to defend that decision!


LILLEY: More than 50,000 face shields sent to China could have been used here


----------



## Jim DaddyO

I think it was on Global News that Trudeau has announced that China is sending emergency medical supplies to Canada now. Returning the favour. Only time will tell if this is actually the case.

I don't know why posting links isn't working, just Google "Trudeau promises millions more items of protective gear" to get the announcement.


----------



## Wardo

colchar said:


> "_Nitrile gloves: 200,000
> Face shields: 50,118
> Coveralls: 36, 425
> Aprons: 3,000
> Goggles: 1,820
> Masks: 1,101
> _
> And, as a goodwill gesture between the two countries Mr. Trudough also sent his favourite cum sock.


----------



## colchar

Wardo said:


> And, as a goodwill gesture between the two countries Mr. Trudough also sent his favourite cum sock.



So we've sent Gerald Butts to China then have we?


----------



## jb welder

knight_yyz said:


> I wonder if it was _Oscillococcinum. _


I had to look that up. The response was kind of funny:
"Oscillosoccinum's active ingredient is Anas barbariae hepatis et cordis extractum 200CK, which is made from the heart and liver of wild duck and is diluted repeatedly until essentially no molecules of duck heart or liver are found in the actual pill"


----------



## 10409

Jim DaddyO said:


> I think it was on Global News that Trudeau has announced that China is sending emergency medical supplies to Canada now. Returning the favour. Only time will tell if this is actually the case.
> 
> I don't know why posting links isn't working, just Google "Trudeau promises millions more items of protective gear" to get the announcement.


Bet he found it on wish.com under just pay shipping


----------



## Wardo

jb welder said:


> ... Anas barbariae ...


Sounds like a porn star.


----------



## 10409

Imagine if the Philippines pretended to send aid but it was just a big bin full of trash


----------



## keto

Shit my 76 yr old mom fell broke her femur around her hip implant today. Min 2 weeks in hospital. On the plus side, rural MB so there's that, and total isolation. That's gonna be tough, on both her and dad. She's pretty stoic, but this is still a long bleak ride. Not allowed literally anything in the way of gifts distractions etc, she has her iPad but says the wifi is especially weak, so the Netflix PW I gave her probably useless or next to it.


----------



## Wardo

keto said:


> Shit my 76 yr old mom fell broke her femur around her hip implant today. Min 2 weeks in hospital. On the plus side, rural MB so there's that, and total isolation. That's gonna be tough, on both her and dad. She's pretty stoic, but this is still a long bleak ride. Not allowed literally anything in the way of gifts distractions etc, she has her iPad but says the wifi is especially weak, so the Netflix PW I gave her probably useless or next to it.


Sorry to hear and I hope all goes as best as it can. My mother had a knee replacement and fell on it a few years later and shattered it badly; she recovered but it took awhile and was rough on the old man - only time I ever saw him break down. I’m not religious in a big way but the only thing I can ever come up with in these kind of situations is god be with you and your family.


----------



## keto

Wardo said:


> Sorry to hear and I hope all goes as best as it can. My mother had a knee replacement and fell on it a few years later and shattered it badly; she recovered but it took awhile and was rough on the old man - only time I ever saw him break down. I’m not religious in a big way but the only thing I can ever come up with in these kind of situations is god be with you and your family.


Thanks. The old guy is an over achiever town councillor handyman fix anything that works in any way shape or form, hand me the next one kinda guy, but he is 80. He's still pretty vigorous, I think he'll be OK. Her, yeesh. Hip was 3-4 years ago curling, and she bounced back from that fast, but then had a knee done and my brother who's out there said she's never been quite right since, he's worried for her.


----------



## tdotrob

colchar said:


> "_Nitrile gloves: 200,000
> Face shields: 50,118
> Coveralls: 36, 425
> Aprons: 3,000
> Goggles: 1,820
> Masks: 1,101
> 
> All of those items are at the top of the list of needs for every hospital, every paramedic unit and every health care centre currently dealing with the pandemic but we sent them to China._"
> 
> And they are trying to defend that decision!
> 
> 
> LILLEY: More than 50,000 face shields sent to China could have been used here


Your really pissed about this.

China was shut down, no manufacturing and health care workers dying by the dozen as they were short supplies. I don’t care if your Chinese, European, African or Whatever, if people are dying Canadians help.

Used to be the Canadian flag represented our willingness to step up and answer the call for others in time of need and that earned us Canadians a certain respect and hospitality around the world that was special and not common amongst many other nations. 

Your way of thinking and the new style of tear everyone apart politics is eroding that part of our identity and it’s sad to watch happen.


----------



## colchar

tdotrob said:


> Your really pissed about this.


Why shouldn't I be? And I am not alone in being pissed about it. Hell, there are other people in this thread who I know aren't happy about it.




> China was shut down, no manufacturing and health care workers dying by the dozen as they were short supplies.


No it wasn't. One city was shut down. In January they requisitioned ALL factories and ALL output for domestic use. They said "we need to take care of our own", so why can't we say the same thing?




> I don’t care if your Chinese, European, African or Whatever, if people are dying Canadians help.
> 
> Used to be the Canadian flag represented our willingness to step up and answer the call for others in time of need and that earned us Canadians a certain respect and hospitality around the world that was special and not common amongst many other nations.



If we have the capacity to help we should, but we should have anticipated that we didn't have that capacity. But Trugrope was too busy licking China's ass in some vain hope that they might release the two Canadians who they have detained on trumped up charges. Or maybe it was because he admires the Chinese dictatorship so much. Either way, we should have done what China did and made sure we could take care of our own before we even dreamed of sending that stuff to another country.

And for the record this isn't just about China, although I do hold them in particular contempt for what they have caused. I am a dual Canadian and British citizen and if they had sent this stuff to the UK I still would've been pissed about it.




> Your way of thinking and the new style of tear everyone apart politics is eroding that part of our identity and it’s sad to watch happen.



My way of thinking and new style politics? Charity begins at home is not just my way of thinking, nor it is new. And as I said above, I am not alone in this.


----------



## tdotrob

colchar said:


> No it wasn't. One city was shut down. In January they requisitioned ALL factories and ALL output for domestic use. They said "we need to take care of our own", so why can't we say the same thing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .If we have the capacity to help we should, but
> .


I won’t argue too much so it’s not too political but this quote proves your talking out your ass.

Here is a fact- our main factory is far far away from Wuhan and the whole province of Hubei.

It shut down for CNY on Jan 16 scheduled to reopen Feb. 3rd. It didn’t re-open for a month after the normal schedule. Believe me because I dealt with all the delays and problems that caused and it’s long after we sent the aid.

Hopefully we receive back from them soon as told to help ease the strain on our frontline workers.


----------



## Lola

It seems every week of this COVID19 I am coming down with something else. Last week it was Strep throat. 

Yesterday I was so sick from about 2 o’clock onwards. Sweating profusely. I went and lay on the deck in my Pj’s I was so hot. The porcelain queen was my fav furniture fixture. Went to bed at 4pm and here I am and now I can’t sleep. I have already had 12 hrs of sleep.

I wonder if it’s just the stress of living during this pandemic? Maybe my immune system isn’t functioning properly. 

while walking the dogs yesterday morning I came across some ppl who wanted to pet my dogs. The mother encouraged the young boys to go pet my dogs. What the fuck was she thinking? I told the young boys not to come near me and was sorry they couldn’t pet my dogs. I mumbled out social distancing. Some ppl.


----------



## torndownunit

keto said:


> Shit my 76 yr old mom fell broke her femur around her hip implant today. Min 2 weeks in hospital. On the plus side, rural MB so there's that, and total isolation. That's gonna be tough, on both her and dad. She's pretty stoic, but this is still a long bleak ride. Not allowed literally anything in the way of gifts distractions etc, she has her iPad but says the wifi is especially weak, so the Netflix PW I gave her probably useless or next to it.


@keto Are you allowed to take the iPad and bring it back? You can download content with Netflix. But it would help to do it with decent wifi. You could at least pack the iPad up with stuff though. If the iPad can't be taken out or in, it leaving it downloading content overnight might help. The content would at least be saved then, and not relying on the wifi while viewing.


----------



## keto

torndownunit said:


> @keto Are you allowed to take the iPad and bring it back? You can download content with Netflix. But it would help to do it with decent wifi. You could at least pack the iPad up with stuff though. If the iPad can't be taken out or in, it leaving it downloading content overnight might help. The content would at least be saved then, and not relying on the wifi while viewing.


I'm 14 hours away, but she's not allowed ANYTHING into her room I have been told. I'll mention about the o/nite dl, thanks.


----------



## Lola

Some ppl are getting pretty crusty and acting like their 5 yrs old. 

Some ppl are almost on the verge of attacking others. 


Ppl get your shit together and be nice to one another without the verbal diarrhoea.


----------



## mhammer

Lola said:


> Some ppl are getting pretty crusty and acting like their 5 yrs old.
> 
> Some ppl are almost on the verge of attacking others.
> 
> 
> Ppl get your shit together and be nice to one another without the verbal diarrhoea.


One often hears about marriages that became stronger when one of the couple becomes seriously ill. But you also hear about marriages that fell apart in response to the same scenario.

It feels like the public response to the current situation also adopts one or the other path in response. Some folks become more compassionate and sharing, and others feel they now have license to unleash their prick-itude. Witness the break-ins and rising purchase of firearms and ammo. One of those fascinating things about human nature. Some folks see shared challenge, and others see individualized threat.


----------



## Milkman

Boris Johnson now has Covid-19
British PM Boris Johnson says he's tested positive for coronavirus | CBC News


And, he visited the Queen in mid March.


----------



## mhammer

RE: sending PPE and other supplies to China

When the thing first broke out, the common perception was that it was a strictly Chinese thing, and assistance directed there would help to keep it ONLY a Chinese thing. As we soon found out, it was, and remains, a world thing.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

'Worse' pandemic on horizon unless world deals with wildlife markets | CBC News


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Nearly 500 people dead in Iran after drinking methanol to fight off COVID-19


----------



## knight_yyz

Has anyone (the ones who feel they may actually have covid 19) thought about lying to get a test? The jerkwad in front of me at the grocery store was bragging about his awesome trip to Timbuktu...


----------



## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> 'Worse' pandemic on horizon unless world deals with wildlife markets | CBC News



I read that one. That's going to be tough to stop. Anyone backward enough to live under the conditions seen in some of these markets will probably not listen to science.

I'm finding that the more I read and watch clips about conditions in other parts of the world, the more I edge toward the slippery slop of racism.

Knowing what people do and how filthy living conditions are, people's tendency to throw garbage into the water and onto the streets makes me cringe and it's not hard to understand why many resist immigration.

The point is, come to Canada, bring your culture, your heritage, your food, your music.

But, please do not bring the habits and conditions that you are now trying to escape by coming here. In other words, don't turn Canada into a shithole like the one you have left behind.

Sorry, that will probably offend someone, but how can you ignore the reality?


----------



## boyscout

Milkman said:


> I read that one. That's going to be tough to stop.


The good news is that China has now moved more firmly in that direction (banning trade and consumption of wild animals) than it has in the past, and China is a place where they actually enforce laws.

China has tried to curb the practices before without much success, but this attempt seems like the time to be completely determined about it.

Let's hope.


----------



## Milkman

boyscout said:


> The good news is that China has now moved more firmly in that direction (banning trade and consumption of wild animals) than it has in the past, and China is a place where they actually enforce laws.
> 
> China has tried to curb the practices before without much success, but this attempt seems like the time to be completely determined about it.
> 
> Let's hope.



A step in the right direction, but it doesn't really matter where it happens. China is only one in a long list of nations that have shockingly primitive habits.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Milkman said:


> Sorry, that will probably offend someone, *but how can you ignore the reality?*


The problem with North American society is that we have been ignoring reality for decades. Most people live in a dream world created by advertising and drug companies. I read an article the other day somewhere in BC they are actually now providing drugs to drug addicts. Yes, drugs, not needles. We need to wake up in this country and start to tackle the problems at the source.


----------



## sulphur

There are many countries in Africa that eat "bush meat". I think that's where HIV first appeared.


----------



## mhammer

It's not _just_ bush meat or wet markets. Consider that the more money you have, the more personal space you can buy for yourself. Consider the two families at the center of the film "Parasite"; one in a spacious suburban compound, and the other in a cramped basement thing (I hesitate to call it an apartment). Of course, the reason why places like Toronto are the sprawling metropolises they are is because people have to live well outside the city cor to be able to afford the sort of personal space they would like to have. Poverty tends to deprive one of personal space. When we think of poverty, we think of a large family living in one or a few rooms. We think of limited potable water, negligible waste treatment, etc. In short, poverty, and desperate attempts to get out of it, result in many of the conditions that give rise to epidemics and pandemics. A big part of why the Gates Foundation has put such effort into development of toilets is precisely because crowded conditions are breeding grounds for epidemics.

If Wuhan was Scarborough or Surrey, the wet market would not have been as great a source of risk. Yes, the wet market and things like bush meat provide a place for pathogens to develop. But it is the dense population and crowded living conditions that allow such pathogens to turn into something worse.


----------



## Distortion

keto said:


> Shit my 76 yr old mom fell broke her femur around her hip implant today. Min 2 weeks in hospital. On the plus side, rural MB so there's that, and total isolation. That's gonna be tough, on both her and dad. She's pretty stoic, but this is still a long bleak ride. Not allowed literally anything in the way of gifts distractions etc, she has her iPad but says the wifi is especially weak, so the Netflix PW I gave her probably useless or next to it.


I would not worry too much about it. The whole Covid thing is not that big of a thing if you read your post on page 128.


----------



## greco

Stay fit!




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2670724423049633


----------



## Jim DaddyO

mike_oxbig said:


> Bet he found it on wish.com under just pay shipping


Now I'm worried Trump will order the ship confiscated.


----------



## Ship of fools

Its true that doctors will be writing scripts for drug addicts if they have covid-19 or have been exposed here in BC and the reason is very sound. If you have a drug addict he is not going to stay in a room at the hospital or hotel if he needs a fix. So its a way of making sure they stay where they were put and not put others in harms way in the downtown area.
I think it maybe time for them to stop with the number thing to. I see it as doing more harm then good. Lots of folks are looking at the numbers and freaking out even more so. Sometimes more information can be more damaging then the actual circumstance.
We do know that bush meat is also associated with the spread of Ebola in Africa.


----------



## Distortion

Aw the whole wild meat thing . Lots of people eat moose and deer and geese etc. in this country for centuries and it is not a problem if cooked .


----------



## tomee2

Distortion said:


> Aw the whole wild meat thing . Lots of people eat moose and deer and geese etc. in this country for centuries and it is not a problem if cooked .


Those animals are dressed in the wild. Bring the live moose, deer, geese, etc to the stock yards to be sold live, and butchered right there next to other wild birds, bats, squirrels, cat, dogs, snakes, fish, rabbits, frogs, raccoons etc and you have the problem...


----------



## Distortion

Jim DaddyO said:


> New York is seriously messed up...take a tour of a hospital. They had to bring in a refrigerated transport trailer for somewhere to put the bodies.
> 
> 
> [MEDIA=nytimes]100000007052136[/MEDIA]


that is sobering. should be transferring patients to other hospitals .


----------



## Distortion

tomee2 said:


> Those animals are dressed in the wild. Bring the live moose, deer, geese, etc to the stock yards to be sold live, and butchered right there next to other wild birds, bats, squirrels, cat, dogs, snakes, fish, rabbits, frogs, raccoons etc and you have the problem...


so the problem is hygene, refrigeration and cooking practises. All those animals live together in the wild.


----------



## keto

Distortion said:


> I would not worry too much about it. The whole Covid thing is not that big of a thing if you read your post on page 128.


Thanks for your best wishes for my mother. ?


----------



## Milkman

keto said:


> Thanks for your best wishes for my mother. ?



Hope she's ok Kent.

I'm worried about my dad and lots of others (including myself).


----------



## Distortion

keto said:


> I'm with them. Things would be a lot worse in the 'deaths' department if it were THAT dangerous, I still maintain and even at this pace, I think that cases are way undertested therefore uncounted therefore skewing many or most of the other numbers so far less dangerous, not to say that it is nothing. But we're seeing enough regional outbreaks flatten out when counting how many and who dead to understand at least somewhat that what we're doing is going to work, and parts of the USA might be the test case for the other end of the isolation scale. See how much herd immunity is really built up.


 I hope she does fine .


----------



## 10409

Distortion said:


> so the problem is hygene, refrigeration and cooking practises. All those animals live together in the wild.


Do they all get caught wounded caged and stacked on top of each other in the wild? You have a different idea of what hunting means there maybe. We hunt, we catch an animal, we come home with said animal. We don’t fill up the truck with everything we could shoot for 2 weeks then come home.


----------



## keto

Distortion said:


> I hope she does fine .


I know what I said, still believe it despite waking up sick and now isolating, just shut down the wife's dayhome. I also said 'not to say that it is nothing', and I've repeatedly said how it is completely understandable why nobody wants to get it.


----------



## Distortion

mike_oxbig said:


> Do they all get caught wounded caged and stacked on top of each other in the wild? You have a different idea of what hunting means there maybe. We hunt, we catch an animal, we come home with said animal. We don’t fill up the truck with everything we could shoot for 2 weeks then come home.


bingo hygene


----------



## Milkman

keto said:


> I know what I said, still believe it despite waking up sick and now isolating, just shut down the wife's dayhome. I also said 'not to say that it is nothing', and I've repeatedly said how it is completely understandable why nobody wants to get it.


You woke up sick? Sorry man, I'm sure you'll be fine but this Stephen King novel in which we seem to be living is scary shit. Anybody who isn't a little scared is frigging deluded.

Good luck.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Distortion said:


> that is sobering. should be transferring patients to other hospitals .


I can see the sense in that, but....transfering patients is also moving bio hazardous material....tough choice.


----------



## Milkman

Ooops

Tried to post a clip from NYC.


----------



## Distortion

Jim DaddyO said:


> I can see the sense in that, but....transfering patients is also moving bio hazardous material....tough choice.


by not transfering you are deciding who lives and who dies. _Is a New York city residents life worth less than a Buffalo residents life._


----------



## boyscout

Distortion said:


> so the problem is hygene, refrigeration and cooking practises.


Improvements in those would help, but...



Distortion said:


> All those animals live together in the wild.


Not exactly "together". Several of these nasty bugs have originated with bats, for example, who don't "live with" the others much. Then there are the bridges, especially pigs, to us. Pigs physiologically are a lot like us, and when pigs and bats come into otherwise-unusual proximity due to human activities (like the Wuhan market, for example) then bad things have developed and made their way into humans.

Man, nobody's going to be going after your hunting rights over this! Don't turn your political reaction to that notion into an argument that science has thoroughly proven you can't win.


----------



## 10409

The argument is the win for these mentalities. “Look how many people are talking to me all I had to do was be remarkably wrong. I think that means I have a political voice since everyone’s listening”


----------



## knight_yyz

Coronavirus: Worker at Hamilton McDonald’s charged after fake positive COVID-19 test closed restaurant: police


----------



## Milkman

knight_yyz said:


> Coronavirus: Worker at Hamilton McDonald’s charged after fake positive COVID-19 test closed restaurant: police



What's that old saying.....You can take the people out of stupid but you can't take the stupid out of...…


No, that's not it, but you get the idea


----------



## tdotrob

Milkman said:


> What's that old saying.....You can take the people out of stupid but you can't take the stupid out of...…
> 
> 
> No, that's not it, but you get the idea



I believe the quote is “people are stupid” lol


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Distortion said:


> by not transfering you are deciding who lives and who dies. _Is a New York city residents life worth less than a Buffalo residents life._


Yes, that may be true. Although, by transferring you are possibly contaminating any number of people involved with the action along with the equipment and material. Italy, as an example, already have to make the choice of who gets respiration equipment hooked up to them. As I said, it's a tough choice.

What was it Spock said? The good of the many is more important than the good of the few, or the one.


----------



## Mooh

Last night I had a dream that I had Covid-19 and was racing to get well but couldn't keep up because you guys kept posting in the Covid-19 threads faster than I could read them. As I lay dying, struggling to read, you guys just blindly let me die.

Spirit guide, what does it mean?


----------



## Electraglide

Mooh said:


> Last night I had a dream that I had Covid-19 and was racing to get well but couldn't keep up because you guys kept posting in the Covid-19 threads faster than I could read them. As I lay dying, struggling to read, you guys just blindly let me die.
> 
> Spirit guide, what does it mean?


Just eat some of these mushrooms and a few of these peyote buds and you will discover the truth my son. As to those who would not help you


----------



## Electraglide

Not too sure if this is true or not but it probably is. 
‘No Canadian’: Twitter mocks Trump’s plan to move troops to U.S.-Canada border


----------



## vadsy

Mooh said:


> Last night I had a dream that I had Covid-19 and was racing to get well but couldn't keep up because you guys kept posting in the Covid-19 threads faster than I could read them. As I lay dying, struggling to read, you guys just blindly let me die.
> 
> Spirit guide, what does it mean?


You need a medicine drum, it helps calm you


----------



## Milkman

Electraglide said:


> Not too sure if this is true or not but it probably is.
> ‘No Canadian’: Twitter mocks Trump’s plan to move troops to U.S.-Canada border



Which part? Trump definitely discussed moving US troops closer to the Canadian border in response to some perceived risk. Most people are laughing it off.


----------



## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> Which part? Trump definitely discussed moving US troops closer to the Canadian border in response to some perceived risk. Most people are laughing it off.


The moving troops to the border. He's still planning to build the wall isn't he.


----------



## Milkman

Electraglide said:


> The moving troops to the border. He's still planning to build the wall isn't he.



Maybe _we _should.

Trudeau says talks continue with U.S. about border troops | CBC News


----------



## vadsy

Get out and enjoy the fresh air, last weekend of March. Lockdown coming in April.


----------



## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> Maybe _we _should.
> 
> Trudeau says talks continue with U.S. about border troops | CBC News


Keep 'em out. Seems like trumph comes up with an idea, then drops it, then fires some folks and then comes up with the same idea again.


----------



## vadsy




----------



## Jim DaddyO

could not post what I wanted successfully


----------



## vadsy

never mind. Jim’s thingy is gone so this space is now available for purchase


----------



## vadsy

Jim DaddyO said:


> could not post what I wanted successfully


sure you did. The bubbles in his shed thing?


----------



## torndownunit

vadsy said:


> Get out and enjoy the fresh air, last weekend of March. Lockdown coming in April.


The lockdown comment gets me curious because based on what family members who are health workers have told me, it's a legit possibility.

My town, which is fairly large, doesn't have a single grocery delivery service. The stores only got pickup options within the last year, even the Walmart which is a supercenter. What are the options for services like this in the places you guys live?


----------



## mhammer

Milkman said:


> Maybe _we _should.
> 
> Trudeau says talks continue with U.S. about border troops | CBC News


Lord knows what the actual motivation was, or is, but the _stated_ reason was because of all that steel that was purportedly being dumped/smuggled in to avoid tariffs. Yup, because of the massive unemployment and downturn in the oil sector, Canadians have turned to steel smuggling. If it's not smokes, booze, prescription drugs, or human trafficking, it's trunks full of rebar, or beams stowed under those crates of BC Delicious apples and Ketchup-flavoured chips. Hamilton is poised to become the richest city in North America unless the U.S. Army stops them.

My son sent me this, with the comment "Hard to believe this isn't the Beaverton".
Barrel of Monkeys now worth more than a barrel of Alberta oil | CBC News


----------



## vadsy

torndownunit said:


> The lockdown comment gets me curious because based on what family members who are health workers have told me, it's a legit possibility.
> 
> My town, which is fairly large, doesn't have a single grocery delivery service. The stores only got pickup options within the last year, even the Walmart which is a supercenter. What are the options for services like this in the places you guys live?


of course a lockdown is on the table. its gonna be hard but necessary.

I'm not sure on delivery but we have a couple of pick up options. would have to look at options on who delivers


----------



## torndownunit

vadsy said:


> of course a lockdown is on the table. its gonna be hard but necessary


I have heard in Italy they (government) are delivering food. I am just curious about the logistics here. Can you imagine the run on grocery stores if people know a lock down is coming but don't know how services are dealt with?

And I 100% agree it's necessary. This self isolation was too late, and is a joke. I know do many people who came back from trips and didn't self isolate. The essential business list in Ontario is another joke.


----------



## Milkman

Pardon me for not googling this, but what would a "lockdown" mean, above what is already in place?


----------



## vadsy

Milkman said:


> Pardon me for not googling this, but what would a "lockdown" mean, above what is already in place?


do you have to google a definition? paper versions of dictionaries also exist, you could consult a book


----------



## colchar

GuitarsCanada said:


> Nearly 500 people dead in Iran after drinking methanol to fight off COVID-19



Did you read about the two idiots in the US who died after drinking aquarium cleaner? When Trump started talking about that Malaria drug a husband and wife team decided to drink aquarium cleaner that contained the drug - and she now blames Trump for her illness and her husband's death.


----------



## torndownunit

vadsy said:


> do you have to google a definition? paper versions of dictionaries also exist, you could consult a book


there's also a documentary starring Sylvester Stallone.


----------



## Ship of fools

The lock down doesn't mean you cannot go grocery shopping or even driving, you just have to practice safe distance from others. I just got back from Save on Foods they doubt that they will be locked down and Costco here has opened its door to old fart shopping from 7-9 am Tuesdays and 
Thursdays and have shit loads of toilet paper and paper towels but try and find 3 ply I like to spoil my ass and Lottery kiosks have been shut down.


----------



## Milkman

vadsy said:


> do you have to google a definition? paper versions of dictionaries also exist, you could consult a book


Wow, friendly as always, LOL.


----------



## colchar

knight_yyz said:


> Has anyone (the ones who feel they may actually have covid 19) thought about lying to get a test? The jerkwad in front of me at the grocery store was bragging about his awesome trip to Timbuktu...



Other than tiredness, headaches (not unusual for me as I get migraines), and a slight wet cough my symptoms are gone so whatever I had was just a flu/cold.

My younger brother, however, has been experiencing shortness of breath for a couple of weeks and has developed the chest cough associated with Covid-19. But he doesn't meet the criteria for testing.

A few weeks ago he also had the worst flu of his life (he said it was absolutely horrible), so I am wondering if that was related.


----------



## Milkman

Lockdown Procedures

I'm just not sure what level they're considering.


----------



## vadsy

Milkman said:


> Wow, friendly as always, LOL.


of course I am. I don't let silly things get in the way of me being friendly with folks.


----------



## davetcan

Mild dry cough for a few days, sore throat with pain running up to my left ear, no fever so far. If I've got it I have no idea how. Haven't travelled and have been pretty much hanging around the house for a couple of weeks. Either way all I can do is ride it out and hope. I sure don't qualify for a test


----------



## torndownunit

Ship of fools said:


> The lock down doesn't mean you cannot go grocery shopping or even driving, you just have to practice safe distance from others. I just got back from Save on Foods they doubt that they will be locked down and Costco here has opened its door to old fart shopping from 7-9 am Tuesdays and
> Thursdays and have shit loads of toilet paper and paper towels but try and find 3 ply I like to spoil my ass and Lottery kiosks have been shut down.


In countries like Italy, it does though from what I have read. They are literally delivering food and services. So that is what I am referring to as 'lockdown'. What you describe is more just mandatory isolation rather than voluntary based on what I read from other countries.


----------



## Ship of fools

Could very well be, as a flu or cold only has a limited life span and he maybe developing Pneumonia he should phone the help line out here its 811 and talk to someone before it gets worse. Hoping he is ok.


----------



## vadsy

knight_yyz said:


> Has anyone (the ones who feel they may actually have covid 19) thought about lying to get a test?


lying to get a test? you aren't suggesting something like this are you, only asking if others would do it right? I mean it isn't a douchebag thing to do is it? not like applying for government assistance programs falsely and taking funds from people who need it, kinda like people who actually legit need that test..., right?


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> I read that one. That's going to be tough to stop. Anyone backward enough to live under the conditions seen in some of these markets will probably not listen to science.
> 
> I'm finding that the more I read and watch clips about conditions in other parts of the world, the more I edge toward the slippery slop of racism.
> 
> Knowing what people do and how filthy living conditions are, people's tendency to throw garbage into the water and onto the streets makes me cringe and it's not hard to understand why many resist immigration.
> 
> The point is, come to Canada, bring your culture, your heritage, your food, your music.
> 
> But, please do not bring the habits and conditions that you are now trying to escape by coming here. In other words, don't turn Canada into a shithole like the one you have left behind.
> 
> Sorry, that will probably offend someone, but how can you ignore the reality?



The problem is that many of those habits and conditions are part of their cultures.

I did my undergrad at the University of Waterloo, which has a massive number of international students from China. There are so many of them that a friend of mine, who was a math major, had to complain to the department that a Chinese prof was speaking Chinese in class, not English. And one day while talking to the grad officer in my department he showed me a grad school application that was entirely in Chinese. When I asked how the hell they were supposed to read that, he shrugged and said "we'll send it to the math department, someone there will translate for us".

Anyway, the point is that UW has a huge Chinese population. With Wilfrid Laurier University being three blocks down the student housing area around the two schools is fairly big, and housing is rented by students from both schools. There is a well known rule among the students from both universities that you _never _rent a place that had Chinese students living in it the year before due to the sanitary conditions, odours, etc. That isn't racism, it is reality because they bring their habits with them.


----------



## torndownunit

davetcan said:


> Mild dry cough for a few days, sore throat with pain running up to my left ear, no fever so far. If I've got it I have no idea how. Haven't travelled and have been pretty much hanging around the house for a couple of weeks. Either way all I can do is ride it out and hope. I sure don't qualify for a test


On top of existing respitory issues, I have been feeling seasonal allergies coming in big time with the warmer weather. So I am trusting in the thermometer to tell me if I have an issue. 

The scary point we all come back to though, we could still be carrying it and not have symptoms. That's why I've kept a super safe distance from my 77 year old dad.


----------



## colchar

boyscout said:


> The good news is that China has now moved more firmly in that direction (banning trade and consumption of wild animals) than it has in the past, and China is a place where they actually enforce laws.



Until the local police are bribed then...........................


----------



## Ship of fools

No its kind of like mandatory lock down however they do allow you go do certain things. The reason they did what they did in Italy was because it was spreading faster then they could control. So from what we are being told is that they realize folks still need certain things like food and medicine and that they will look at locking down small shops that do not serve the greater need. 
Only because it would be a logistic nightmare to deliver food and medicine to so many folks and places. But time will tell here in BC the Premier has removed the disaster code form the cities ( except Vancouver as they have their own charter from days past but ask that they consult with the province ) they think they maybe able to co-ordinate better that way. And so far our hospitals seem to be dealing ok not great but ok. Mind you I see a lot of very tired workers both scared and frankly worn out some of them. I Makes me proud to be a Canadian when I see my brothers and sisters helping all who need.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## colchar

knight_yyz said:


> Coronavirus: Worker at Hamilton McDonald’s charged after fake positive COVID-19 test closed restaurant: police



Too dumb to realize the province has banned the need for sick notes.


----------



## torndownunit

Ship of fools said:


> No its kind of like mandatory lock down however they do allow you go do certain things. The reason they did what they did in Italy was because it was spreading faster then they could control. So from what we are being told is that they realize folks still need certain things like food and medicine and that they will look at locking down small shops that do not serve the greater need.
> Only because it would be a logistic nightmare to deliver food and medicine to so many folks and places. But time will tell here in BC the Premier has removed the disaster code form the cities ( except Vancouver as they have their own charter from days past but ask that they consult with the province ) they think they maybe able to co-ordinate better that way. And so far our hospitals seem to be dealing ok not great but ok. Mind you I see a lot of very tired workers both scared and frankly worn out some of them. I Makes me proud to be a Canadian when I see my brothers and sisters helping all who need.


See, my relative working in health care here (a respiratory therapist) see things easily getting as bad as Italy. They just started their on-site testing clinic this week, and say it's a disaster. Plus there seems to be a ton of people completely ignoring the (now mandatory) quarantine after returning from trips. Not to mention the hospital is so low on supplies, they are doing a fundraising drive just for protective equipment among the local businesses. They say if they get an influx of cases now, they would immediately be screwed from the get go.

EDIT everyone get the phone alerts about travellers quarantining?


----------



## colchar

tdotrob said:


> I won’t argue too much so it’s not too political but this quote proves your talking out your ass.
> 
> Here is a fact- our main factory is far far away from Wuhan and the whole province of Hubei.
> 
> It shut down for CNY on Jan 16 scheduled to reopen Feb. 3rd. It didn’t re-open for a month after the normal schedule. Believe me because I dealt with all the delays and problems that caused and it’s long after we sent the aid.
> 
> Hopefully we receive back from them soon as told to help ease the strain on our frontline workers.


When you said "shut down" I thought you meant a lockdown, in which case it was one city.

As for there being no manufacturing, you had better contact CTV, Global, City, etc. and let them know that they were all wrong when they reported that the Chinese government had requisitioned all factories making PPE in January and that they had seized all supplies for domestic use. Apparently you know more than they do.


----------



## Distortion

mike_oxbig said:


> The argument is the win for these mentalities. “Look how many people are talking to me all I had to do was be remarkably wrong. I think that means I have a political voice since everyone’s listening”


do you even no what political means LOL


----------



## Electraglide

Ship of fools said:


> The lock down doesn't mean you cannot go grocery shopping or even driving, you just have to practice safe distance from others. I just got back from Save on Foods they doubt that they will be locked down and Costco here has opened its door to old fart shopping from 7-9 am Tuesdays and
> Thursdays and have shit loads of toilet paper and paper towels but try and find 3 ply I like to spoil my ass and Lottery kiosks have been shut down.


Some lottery places are open here and some are closed. Some of the Mom and Pop Lottery/chocolate bar/pop places are closed. Two of the places I went to yesterday were open....a gas station and a grocery store....so I bought a $6 lotto max at each but WCLC offices are closed so cashing in a big prize might be fun. I haven't been there yet but I heard that the walmart I usually go to has shut down almost all of the self serve cashiers.....not too sure about the dollar store in the same mall that just installed them. Most of the banks around here seem to be closed, just the ATM parts are open but a credit union I went by was still open.....just wait by the door until a teller is open kind of thing. One of the grocery stores I go to is closed until the 8th. Their choice. An employee was feeling ill and booked off a week ago.....tested positive so they were doing a massive clean of the whole mall yesterday.....not too sure what will be open today. Some places are doing the old fart thing but I go other times so I don't know how that's going.


----------



## keto

torndownunit said:


> On top of existing respitory issues, I have been feeling seasonal allergies coming in big time with the warmer weather. So I am trusting in the thermometer to tell me if I have an issue.
> 
> The scary point we all come back to though, we could still be carrying it and not have symptoms. That's why I've kept a super safe distance from my 77 year old dad.


The thermometer, that's where I'm at, also pre existing respiratory. Stuff came on hard last night, sore throat cough, but no fever. Still shutting down/isolating. Just as closest daughter gets out of iso, so they get to grocery shop for us lol.


----------



## 10409

Know, I do not


----------



## knight_yyz

colchar said:


> Other than tiredness, headaches (not unusual for me as I get migraines), and a slight wet cough my symptoms are gone so whatever I had was just a flu/cold.
> 
> My younger brother, however, has been experiencing shortness of breath for a couple of weeks and has developed the chest cough associated with Covid-19. But he doesn't meet the criteria for testing.
> 
> A few weeks ago he also had the worst flu of his life (he said it was absolutely horrible), so I am wondering if that was related.



Yes but just because you don't have all the symptoms or suddenly feel better doesn't mean you don't have it. Your immune system may have a reason for fighting it better.


----------



## colchar

knight_yyz said:


> Yes but just because you don't have all the symptoms or suddenly feel better doesn't mean you don't have it. Your immune system may have a reason for fighting it better.



A fair point. But it is also cold/flu season and I work in a germ factory (one of my students told me yesterday that her mom has it and she is being tested) so regularly get flus and colds. Many of my symptoms matched what the WHO had put out there, while others were the exact opposite.

I'm thinking of asking relatives in the UK to snag me a couple of those home test kits when they become available. I know there will be delays in getting things here via the mail but they might still be worth having.


----------



## allthumbs56

torndownunit said:


> See, my relative working in health care here (a respiratory therapist) see things easily getting as bad as Italy. They just started their on-site testing clinic this week, and say it's a disaster. Plus there seems to be a ton of people completely ignoring the (now mandatory) quarantine after returning from trips. Not to mention the hospital is so low on supplies, they are doing a fundraising drive just for protective equipment among the local businesses. They say if they get an influx of cases now, they would immediately be screwed from the get go.
> 
> EDIT everyone get the phone alerts about travellers quarantining?


English and then French 5 minutes later. Scared the pants off me..................................... twice.


----------



## Milkman

allthumbs56 said:


> English and then French 5 minutes later. Scared the pants off me..................................... twice.


Me too. The normal Amber Alerts don't usually bother me but I damn near shat myself this time, LOL.


----------



## greco

..


----------



## mhammer

It's funny, you know. Normally, when someone comes in to work with sniffles and cough, and looking haggard, the classification is "I musta picked up something that's going around". When my wife gets under the weather, she'll tell me that this one or that one at work is also down with the same thing. "Something is going around".

Of course, at the moment, picking up "what's going around" is not the sort of thing you want, or want to hear about. Certainly all those other things that "go around" have not taken a holiday or been otherwise shelved, so yes, colds and flu still exist, as unglamorous as they may be. But the overlap in symptoms is enough to make people anxious. If not for themselves, then certainly for others.

Dammit, don't you wish diseases had distinctive non-overlapping symptoms? Wouldn't it be great if Covid-19 turned your left ear green, and was the only disease in the world to do so? It wouldn't necessarily be any less dangerous or painful, but boy it would sure make life easier and less anxiety-provoking.


----------



## oldjoat

except for van gogh ... ahhhh the plot thickens .
confusing for the blind too.


----------



## Lincoln

how will we know when it's over?


----------



## Jim DaddyO

vadsy said:


> sure you did. The bubbles in his shed thing?


yes


----------



## vadsy

Jim DaddyO said:


> yes


I saw it


----------



## vadsy

Lincoln said:


> how will we know when it's over?


I’ll let everyone know. If you have me on ignore you’re doing yourself a disservice


----------



## Jim DaddyO

colchar said:


> Did you read about the two idiots in the US who died after drinking aquarium cleaner? When Trump started talking about that Malaria drug a husband and wife team decided to drink aquarium cleaner that contained the drug - and she now blames Trump for her illness and her husband's death.


A typical outcome for someone who actually believes anything coming out of Trump's mouth.


----------



## keto

Jim DaddyO said:


> A typical outcome for someone who actually believes anything coming out of Trump's mouth.



Oooh, you're in for it now.


----------



## Lincoln

vadsy said:


> I’ll let everyone know. If you have me on ignore you’re doing yourself a disservice


like I would have you on ignore


----------



## Jim DaddyO

This alergy season is going to look like the Salem Witch Trials.


----------



## Distortion

Lincoln said:


> how will we know when it's over?


I am hoping when the warm weather hits it will die off like the seasonal flu.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## colchar

torndownunit said:


> EDIT everyone get the phone alerts about travellers quarantining?



Yeah because they needed an amber alert to get that information out. Apparently nobody has been talking about it up until now. 

Everyone already knows, and anyone who doesn't quarantine themselves isn't going to change their minds because of an amber alert.


----------



## colchar

laristotle said:


>





With bars shut down one does have to wonder how many of the people applying for EI were peelers.


----------



## colchar

Distortion said:


> I am hoping when the warm weather hits it will die off like the seasonal flu.



Trump is hoping for the same thing.


----------



## knight_yyz

I got 2 amber alerts. One in each official language


----------



## vadsy

colchar said:


> Trump is hoping for the same thing.


he knows, he understands thus stuff. He really does.


----------



## Wardo

Jim DaddyO said:


> This alergy season is going to look like the Salem Witch Trials.


Yeah, they’ll be throwing you in the village pond for a start .. lol


----------



## vadsy

Lincoln said:


> like I would have you on ignore


hey man, don't ruin my street cred


----------



## tdotrob

colchar said:


> When you said "shut down" I thought you meant a lockdown, in which case it was one city.
> 
> As for there being no manufacturing, you had better contact CTV, Global, City, etc. and let them know that they were all wrong when they reported that the Chinese government had requisitioned all factories making PPE in January and that they had seized all supplies for domestic use. Apparently you know more than they do.


I tried calling them all, no answer. If you could send me your insider reports how it all went down I’ll appreciate the education.


----------



## allthumbs56

laristotle said:


>


"That's close enough signore".


----------



## laristotle

Wardo said:


> Yeah, they’ll be throwing you in the village pond for a start .. lol


Those were Midieval times. Science has come a ways.


----------



## laristotle

Guelph's Canadian Solar imports 60,000 medical masks to donate to frontline workers
_
Guelph based Canadian Solar company imported 60,000 medical masks for health professionals in Ontario facing a severe shortage of personal protection equipment (PPE).

The masks were donated from facilities in China who had a surplus of PPE.

“They were in very critical need a couple of months ago but as China has sort of turned the corner, they have found themselves with quantities of masks that they are able to donate to help overseas,” said Dylan Marx, vice-president of operations at Canadian Solar adding that the company has 10,000 employees in China, the highest number of their employees in any region. _


----------



## Electraglide

torndownunit said:


> EDIT everyone get the phone alerts about travellers quarantining?


Nope, not on either phone.


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


>


Damn right that's essential.


----------



## Electraglide

Seems an employee at a grocery store here tested positive....the whole mall was shut down for cleaning and everything was to be be shut until the 8th of April except a drug store a clinic and a diagnostic center. The grocery store will re-open on the 8th and almost all the rest of the mall will stay closed. A Superstore in NS closed today when an employee tested positive and is expected to open tomorrow after a cleaning. A store in Oshawa had the same thing happen and is closed "for as long as it takes to deep clean or on the advise of public health.".


laristotle said:


> Guelph's Canadian Solar imports 60,000 medical masks to donate to frontline workers
> _
> Guelph based Canadian Solar company imported 60,000 medical masks for health professionals in Ontario facing a severe shortage of personal protection equipment (PPE).
> 
> The masks were donated from facilities in China who had a surplus of PPE.
> 
> “They were in very critical need a couple of months ago but as China has sort of turned the corner, they have found themselves with quantities of masks that they are able to donate to help overseas,” said Dylan Marx, vice-president of operations at Canadian Solar adding that the company has 10,000 employees in China, the highest number of their employees in any region. _


I wonder how much 60,000 masks weigh....16 tons maybe? Thumbs up to Canadian Solar. When this is over those guys have a lot of beer coming.


----------



## tdotrob

Electraglide said:


> Seems an employee at a grocery store here tested positive....the whole mall was shut down for cleaning and everything was to be be shut until the 8th of April except a drug store a clinic and a diagnostic center. The grocery store will re-open on the 8th and almost all the rest of the mall will stay closed. A Superstore in NS closed today when an employee tested positive and is expected to open tomorrow after a cleaning. A store in Oshawa had the same thing happen and is closed "for as long as it takes to deep clean or on the advise of public health.".
> 
> I wonder how much 60,000 masks weigh....16 tons maybe? Thumbs up to Canadian Solar. When this is over those guys have a lot of beer coming.


I’ll volunteer to stand at the gates and count every piece of donation that comes from anywhere in China to make sure we get a good return on investment for our 16 tonnes


----------



## Electraglide

tdotrob said:


> I’ll volunteer to stand at the gates and count every piece of donation that comes from anywhere in China to make sure we get a good return on investment for our 16 tonnes


Take the teacher with you.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Here is a random thought, or series of them.


The country is afraid right now of people crossing the border from other countries. That is reasonable, you cannot guarantee what precautions and actions other countries take for their citizens well being.
Every year thousands of people from other countries come here to help on farms for the growing season. Farmers depend on this pool of labour to make their farms viable
This leads to the issue that all these workers need to go into quarantine for 2 weeks before being allowed to intermingle with the general population. Even these 2 weeks may not be a sure thing as far as safety is concerned.
We now have tens of thousands of young adults who would normally be in school at home with nothing to do, not allowed to socialise in person, etc.
Does anyone else see the opportunity for a teaching moment here and at the same time solve a logistical problem? Education does not always have to be in a class room. Some real world experience can be a learning experience too. It's also a chance for those same young adults to earn some money at the same time.


----------



## GuitarsCanada




----------



## tdotrob

Jim DaddyO said:


> Here is a random thought, or series of them.
> 
> 
> The country is afraid right now of people crossing the border from other countries. That is reasonable, you cannot guarantee what precautions and actions other countries take for their citizens well being.
> Every year thousands of people from other countries come here to help on farms for the growing season. Farmers depend on this pool of labour to make their farms viable
> This leads to the issue that all these workers need to go into quarantine for 2 weeks before being allowed to intermingle with the general population. Even these 2 weeks may not be a sure thing as far as safety is concerned.
> We now have tens of thousands of young adults who would normally be in school at home with nothing to do, not allowed to socialise in person, etc.
> Does anyone else see the opportunity for a teaching moment here and at the same time solve a logistical problem? Education does not always have to be in a class room. Some real world experience can be a learning experience too. It's also a chance for those same young adults to earn some money at the same time.


I love this idea and I’m gonna suggest it to my oldest son who is 18, wants to work, is bummed that his last year of HS is done and he may miss his Senior year of Competitive baseball.

I moved out to Alberta from Ontario when I was 19 my first two jobs were as a hand on a farm. Learned so much from those jobs.


----------



## davetcan

keto said:


> The thermometer, that's where I'm at, also pre existing respiratory. Stuff came on hard last night, sore throat cough, but no fever. Still shutting down/isolating. Just as closest daughter gets out of iso, so they get to grocery shop for us lol.


hang in there, I'm going down a similar path but so far no fever.


----------



## Wardo

tdotrob said:


> I moved out to Alberta from Ontario when I was 19 my first two jobs were as a hand on a farm. Learned so much from those jobs.


I moved to Edmonton right after high school. Lived across from the base, had a shitty job and a lot of friends, got drunk a lot and had a good time.


----------



## colchar

Jim DaddyO said:


> Here is a random thought, or series of them.
> 
> 
> The country is afraid right now of people crossing the border from other countries. That is reasonable, you cannot guarantee what precautions and actions other countries take for their citizens well being.
> Every year thousands of people from other countries come here to help on farms for the growing season. Farmers depend on this pool of labour to make their farms viable
> This leads to the issue that all these workers need to go into quarantine for 2 weeks before being allowed to intermingle with the general population. Even these 2 weeks may not be a sure thing as far as safety is concerned.
> We now have tens of thousands of young adults who would normally be in school at home with nothing to do, not allowed to socialise in person, etc.
> Does anyone else see the opportunity for a teaching moment here and at the same time solve a logistical problem? Education does not always have to be in a class room. Some real world experience can be a learning experience too. It's also a chance for those same young adults to earn some money at the same time.



They don't have the skills needed. But otherwise yeah, I would agree.


----------



## jb welder

Jim DaddyO said:


> Every year thousands of people from other countries come here to help on farms for the growing season. Farmers depend on this pool of labour to make their farms viable
> This leads to the issue that all these workers need to go into quarantine for 2 weeks before being allowed to intermingle with the general population. Even these 2 weeks may not be a sure thing as far as safety is concerned.
> We now have tens of thousands of young adults who would normally be in school at home with nothing to do, not allowed to socialise in person, etc.
> Does anyone else see the opportunity for a teaching moment here and at the same time solve a logistical problem? Education does not always have to be in a class room. Some real world experience can be a learning experience too. It's also a chance for those same young adults to earn some money at the same time.


lol @ Canadian kids workin' an old dirt hoe. Not gonna happen.


----------



## Electraglide

Jim DaddyO said:


> Here is a random thought, or series of them.
> 
> 
> The country is afraid right now of people crossing the border from other countries. That is reasonable, you cannot guarantee what precautions and actions other countries take for their citizens well being.
> Every year thousands of people from other countries come here to help on farms for the growing season. Farmers depend on this pool of labour to make their farms viable
> This leads to the issue that all these workers need to go into quarantine for 2 weeks before being allowed to intermingle with the general population. Even these 2 weeks may not be a sure thing as far as safety is concerned.
> We now have tens of thousands of young adults who would normally be in school at home with nothing to do, not allowed to socialise in person, etc.
> Does anyone else see the opportunity for a teaching moment here and at the same time solve a logistical problem? Education does not always have to be in a class room. Some real world experience can be a learning experience too. It's also a chance for those same young adults to earn some money at the same time.


Stick them out on a feed lot or a tobbaco farm or apple orchard this time of year and see how long they'd last. Then there's this


----------



## Dorian2

Wardo said:


> I moved to Edmonton right after high school. Lived across from the base, had a shitty job and a lot of friends, got drunk a lot and had a good time.


That'd be my stomping grounds. I grew up on the base for 4 years.


----------



## vadsy




----------



## bolero

this is a good vieo about the effectiveness of masks. worth watching


----------



## laristotle




----------



## tomee2

Electraglide said:


> Stick them out on a feed lot or a tobbaco farm or apple orchard this time of year and see how long they'd last. Then there's this


I did this as a teenager back in Alberta in the 80s. The farmer hired only local kids to do it. Hardest thing i ever did, well maybe bailing in the fall was harder for longer but this was 4 hours of nonstop hard work. We got fed a huge meal and 2 beers after we were done, usually around 1am. I also got paid to do this, which made it worth it.


----------



## Milkman

laristotle said:


> View attachment 301922



LOL, Why was I thinking Bonamassa?


----------



## Milkman

tomee2 said:


> I did this as a teenager back in Alberta in the 80s. The farmer hired only local kids to do it. Hardest thing i ever did, well maybe bailing in the fall was harder for longer but this was 4 hours of nonstop hard work. We got fed a huge meal and 2 beers after we were done, usually around 1am. I also got paid to do this, which made it worth it.


As a teen, I along with a group of friends travelled each summer from New Brunswick to the tobacco farms of Southern Ontario.

That was seven days a week, long days of heavy physical labor. We slept in bunkhouses on the farm. It was intense enough to cause almost standard dreams among my friends and I (and apparently among many tobacco gangs). I was a kiln hanger. It was common for one of the primers (pickers) to sit up suddenly out of a dead sleep and start priming invisible tobacco somewhere near his bed. Kiln hangers all seemed to have falling dreams.

Honestly it was a life changing experience and taught me how hard I could really work. I learned several very important life lessons.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

colchar said:


> They don't have the skills needed. But otherwise yeah, I would agree.


I didn't have the skills at 14 years old either, but there I was, down on the farm for a summer of baling hay. Up early, bed early, eat lots and sweat a lot more. The first 2 weeks were the hardest, but you get used to the hard work and going to bed tired and sore.


----------



## mhammer

Milkman said:


> As a teen, I along with a group of friends travelled each summer from New Brunswick to the tobacco farms of Southern Ontario.
> 
> That was seven days a week, long days of heavy physical labor. We slept in bunkhouses on the farm. It was intense enough to cause almost standard dreams among my friends and I (and apparently among many tobacco gangs). I was a kiln hanger. It was common for one of the primers (pickers) to sit up suddenly out of a dead sleep and start priming invisible tobacco somewhere near his bed. Kiln hangers all seemed to have falling dreams.
> 
> Honestly it was a life changing experience and taught me how hard I could really work. I learned several very important life lessons.


My dad told me that he worked briefly as a tobacco picker in SW Ontario, after they came to Canada. He didn't tell me a lot about it other than that at the end of the day your pants would stand up on their own from all the tobacco juice absorbed.


----------



## torndownunit

Jim DaddyO said:


> I didn't have the skills at 14 years old either, but there I was, down on the farm for a summer of baling hay. Up early, bed early, eat lots and sweat a lot more. The first 2 weeks were the hardest, but you get used to the hard work and going to bed tired and sore.


My first 2 jobs when I turned 13 were bailing hay (along with morning chores), and salting skins at a taxidermist. I worked my ass off at both, but it taught me I never wanted to grow up to be a farmer or a taxidermist.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Milkman said:


> As a teen, I along with a group of friends travelled each summer from New Brunswick to the tobacco farms of Southern Ontario.
> 
> That was seven days a week, long days of heavy physical labor. We slept in bunkhouses on the farm. It was intense enough to cause almost standard dreams among my friends and I (and apparently among many tobacco gangs). I was a kiln hanger. It was common for one of the primers (pickers) to sit up suddenly out of a dead sleep and start priming invisible tobacco somewhere near his bed. Kiln hangers all seemed to have falling dreams.
> 
> Honestly it was a life changing experience and taught me how hard I could really work. I learned several very important life lessons.


Growing up in the Niagara Region all summer long my friends and I would work on the fruit farms. Strawberries, peaches, apples, cherries etc etc. There were 3-4 spots in town where the farmers would come with half ton trucks and fill the back up with kids and off we would go. Spend the whole day out working and at the end of the day they would hand us a little pay packet. Can't remember what it was but not a lot. We loved it. That's all gone now. The kids today would never consider doing that


----------



## davetcan

When I got off the boat back in the late 60's a lot of my high school friends picked tobacco. They were considered prime jobs and paid really well. Brutally hard work but they all considered it worth it. The jobs were always fully taken and tough to find.



mhammer said:


> My dad told me that he worked briefly as a tobacco picker in SW Ontario, after they came to Canada. He didn't tell me a lot about it other than that at the end of the day your pants would stand up on their own from all the tobacco juice absorbed.


----------



## 10409

bolero said:


> this is a good vieo about the effectiveness of masks. worth watching












One mask to rule them all.....


----------



## Eric Reesor

In the world of pop music there are one hit wonders. Here is hoping that this virus turns out to be one.

How soon we forget that back tracing a virus was impossible until the science of genetics advanced far enough for us to source and sequence rna and dna. It is not aliens trying to "nuke us from orbit" or "divine retribution" happening it is simply the fact that when we screw with ecology and process and eat "bush meat" we had better know what the hell we are doing.

Bats in caves hang upside down and crap their feces in huge piles on the floor where only specialized insects can survive. Even rats won't eat or explore through the crap from bats. When bats get old their death usually comes from losing their grip and falling down into the piles of crap on the floor where the specialized insects process the meat. The ecological stupidity of harvesting bats in their caves is most likely part of the equation of how this virus originally was let loose.

Our science will help us get over this pandemic but will we ever learn anything about why screwing up the ecology for the sake of a paltry source of expensive fashionable morsels of food is ecological suicide? What is worse is that currently bats that take care of huge numbers of pest insects as we sleep at night are in serious trouble from diseases that have spread to them largely from our ill considered destruction and misuse of their cave habitat.

These are my thoughts on the causes of this pandemic, the solutions are socially complex and involve ecological science and international cooperation to stem the onset of more of the same waves of warnings coming from Pandora's Box. It is entirely possible that the black plague originated from the practice of roasting marmot or what is know as having bodog for a meal. The beginning of the spread can be traced to just after the Mongols invaded Europe from the east. Certainly we cannot blame the great Khan for the plague, but it is entirely possible that the origins of the spread of bacterium Yersinia pestis came from humans and "our" animals coming into contact with the genus Marmota.

Science and international cooperation is the only solution to this and many other diseases.

Leaving people with the disease on ill equipped cruise "plague" ships offshore is an idiotic insult to our science, the medical profession and our humanity as a species!
Keep safe and help others to stay and get that way is all we can do until this SOB of virus from Pandora's Box runs its course through humanity.

On the lighter side of the species Marmota and their natural human predation protection insurance policy afforded them by carrying the organism Yersinia pestis: It is an insult in Native West Coast culture to call a man or a woman a "Marmot Eater" and most likely for a very good reason!

B#(*However the little beasties do look rather appetizing on the golf course in Hundred mile when I go fly fishing in the Cariboo and the lineup at Tim Hortons makes me Keep Trucking on up to Willies Lake without stopping for an "Heart Attack on A Biscuit" breakfast special and a coffee.


----------



## boyscout

I've searched and haven't found this here - sorry if it's a repeat.

I believed that I've been paying pretty close attention to news about the virus but I missed this: the corona virus LOVES COLD!!

According to a University of Toronto researcher heard in an interview this morning, the virus could survive on metal and hard plastic surfaces outdoors in the cold at this time of year for up to THREE WEEKS. He specifically mentioned playground equipment as an example of this threat - yikes.

So the virus will last longer in a fridge than it will at room temperature - the opposite of my assumption - and the fridge's plastic shelves and drawers are dream destinations for weeks for any bugs that can get there.

Even room temperature makes life more difficult for the virus. The researcher also spoke about lower-risk surfaces. Rough and porous surfaces are not friendly to it. Fabrics, newspaper and cardboard are places where the virus won't survive easily. He says that reading today's newspaper tomorrow should be completely safe and speculates that it's probably OK in half that time as long as it's not left outside where the cold will help prolong life of any bugs on it.


----------



## vadsy




----------



## allthumbs56

GuitarsCanada said:


> Growing up in the Niagara Region all summer long my friends and I would work on the fruit farms. Strawberries, peaches, apples, cherries etc etc. There were 3-4 spots in town where the farmers would come with half ton trucks and fill the back up with kids and off we would go. Spend the whole day out working and at the end of the day they would hand us a little pay packet. Can't remember what it was but not a lot. We loved it. That's all gone now. The kids today would never consider doing that


Peaches and cherries for me. We'd be at the Farmer's Market at 7:00am and get loaded into the back of a pickup and whisked away to work the orchard. Dropped off back at the Market with a small pay packet and a bit of fruit (if you weren't sick of looking at it by then). Then we'd walk a couple miles home.


----------



## knight_yyz

From my experience as a tool and die maker, If you want hard Canadian workers, hire newfies. Has that changed in the last few years?


----------



## Lola

knight_yyz said:


> From my experience as a tool and die maker, If you want hard Canadian workers, hire newfies. Has that changed in the last few years?


So true. My husband’s foreman was a Newfie. He never missed a day and worked with a 200% effort every day. They sure know how to party too.


----------



## Doug Gifford

Milkman said:


> As a teen, I along with a group of friends travelled each summer from New Brunswick to the tobacco farms of Southern Ontario.
> 
> That was seven days a week, long days of heavy physical labor. We slept in bunkhouses on the farm. It was intense enough to cause almost standard dreams among my friends and I (and apparently among many tobacco gangs). I was a kiln hanger. It was common for one of the primers (pickers) to sit up suddenly out of a dead sleep and start priming invisible tobacco somewhere near his bed. Kiln hangers all seemed to have falling dreams.
> 
> Honestly it was a life changing experience and taught me how hard I could really work. I learned several very important life lessons.


----------



## Lola

I am watching the news and everything in Pickering will be closed until May 3 or maybe even longer. I will go bat shit crazy not that I am not already!( no comment necessary.) lol

I am going to have to come up with a daily regimented schedule to save my sanity.

My Parker crapped out last night. A loose wire. Same problem as before. I am not touching it. L&M is closed so my SG is getting a whole lot of loving. I also have my Academy guitar my beginner guitar if you will. Thank god I have options.


----------



## keto

David Staples, Edmonton Journal reporter, is doing a great job following this story and advocating for our safety. This article does indeed have some political content mixed in with tons of other info, so if you are sensitive to criticism of the government please don't read it. This is basically a complete (I did not say comprehensive, I doubt that's possible) timeline of what we knew when, and Canada's response.
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/na...rus/wcm/c4aaa4d0-5f3f-4e55-b1c1-bd2a4a9d5d7c/


----------



## vadsy

Lola said:


> So true. My husband’s foreman was a Newfie. He never missed a day and worked with a 200% effort every day. They sure know how to party too.


mathematics be damned when it comes to Newfies and their superhero powers


----------



## keto

vadsy said:


> mathematics be damned when it comes to Newfies and their superhero powers


On the scale of 'you', I gotta say that was weak, probably a <5% effort. Be better.


----------



## vadsy

keto said:


> On the scale of 'you', I gotta say that was weak, probably a <5% effort. Be better.


my efforts is hella weak today


----------



## tdotrob

Wardo said:


> I moved to Edmonton right after high school. Lived across from the base, had a shitty job and a lot of friends, got drunk a lot and had a good time.


This sounds exactly like my experience besides the base.


----------



## Eric Reesor

boyscout said:


> I've searched and haven't found this here - sorry if it's a repeat.
> 
> I believed that I've been paying pretty close attention to news about the virus but I missed this: the corona virus LOVES COLD!!
> 
> According to a University of Toronto researcher heard in an interview this morning, the virus could survive on metal and hard plastic surfaces outdoors in the cold at this time of year for up to THREE WEEKS. He specifically mentioned playground equipment as an example of this threat - yikes.
> 
> So the virus will last longer in a fridge than it will at room temperature - the opposite of my assumption - and the fridge's plastic shelves and drawers are dream destinations for weeks for any bugs that can get there.
> 
> Even room temperature makes life more difficult for the virus. The researcher also spoke about lower-risk surfaces. Rough and porous surfaces are not friendly to it. Fabrics, newspaper and cardboard are places where the virus won't survive easily. He says that reading today's newspaper tomorrow should be completely safe and speculates that it's probably OK in half that time as long as it's not left outside where the cold will help prolong life of any bugs on it.


That science has some logic flaws and is therefore perhaps a little too alarmist and needs immediate peer examination. We do understand that it is exposure to O2 that breaks the encapsulation of viruses and O2 concentrations in the air are greater at lower temperatures. So the virus most likely will not survive dry cold conditions at higher atmospheric pressures with good O2 levels. These are the factors that currently need investigation the most important being the longevity of viability of the virus. 

Hydrogen Peroxide kills virus simply by breaking the encapsulation leaving just disjunct strands of viral rna.

Leaving the virus on a moisture laden surface without exposure to an oxidation agent like the air or a liquid with an agent in it in a cold environment most likely increases the time it takes for the virus to lose the ability to spread.

YOU ask how do I know all this? My real job for the last years has been cooking and the relevant necessary constant sanitizing that goes on in a seniors facility where Norwalk regularly makes a visit this time of year. So far no coronavirus as yet!! I have in the recent past years been a hired gun to initiate the outbreak procedures for the sanitization measures necessary during viral outbreaks in said facilities. 

Like all classical guitarists, the old saw "don't give up your day job" applies so I have had to use my brain and skills to make a living. I choose jobs that challenge my brain and body. 

Our only real weapon against this disease is knowledge, experience and checking of the facts. As I stated leaving the victims of this virus on plague cruise ships is a disgusting display of human cowardice and scientific stupidity and ignorance. Certainly evacuate the sick with hazmat gear on and have sanitation stations in place. But to panic and not act is a spineless act to say the very least.


----------



## Distortion

Jim DaddyO said:


> Here is a random thought, or series of them.
> 
> 
> The country is afraid right now of people crossing the border from other countries. That is reasonable, you cannot guarantee what precautions and actions other countries take for their citizens well being.
> Every year thousands of people from other countries come here to help on farms for the growing season. Farmers depend on this pool of labour to make their farms viable
> This leads to the issue that all these workers need to go into quarantine for 2 weeks before being allowed to intermingle with the general population. Even these 2 weeks may not be a sure thing as far as safety is concerned.
> We now have tens of thousands of young adults who would normally be in school at home with nothing to do, not allowed to socialise in person, etc.
> Does anyone else see the opportunity for a teaching moment here and at the same time solve a logistical problem? Education does not always have to be in a class room. Some real world experience can be a learning experience too. It's also a chance for those same young adults to earn some money at the same time.


 Really if you had a teenager you would want him rubbing shoulders with several other people all day long and bring the covid virus into your home at night. ? This thing is just getting started in Canada.


----------



## boyscout

Eric Reesor said:


> That science has some logic flaws and is therefore perhaps a little too alarmist and needs immediate peer examination. We do understand that it is exposure to O2 that breaks the encapsulation of viruses and O2 concentrations in the air are greater at lower temperatures. So the virus most likely will not survive dry cold conditions at higher atmospheric pressures with good O2 levels. These are the factors that currently need investigation the most important being the longevity of viability of the virus.


Geez, if that's supposed to be a coherent rebuttal of the information I posted, I'll stick with my source thanks.

I don't remember his name but he's in the Faculty of Information (news to me there was such a thing!) at U of T. His days lately are devoted to collecting and reading authoritative information - very likely including peer-reviewed studies - about the pandemic and isolating generally-useful facts from it. His information about the virus surviving better in the cold, especially on metal and hard plastic surfaces, wasn't his own speculation; it came from science-based information he has collected.

So we're gonna need to see the peer-reviewed studies supporting your claim that increases in the oxygen content of colder air ensure that the virus has a shorter life in it.

Congratulations on your success at helping to keep bugs out of the seniors facility where you work, but I'll warrant that if we were all wiping hydrogen peroxide on everything around us everywhere we go then the rest of us would have less of a problem too.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

China to donate medical supplies to Canada amid coronavirus pandemic, Embassy says


_In a tweet on Saturday, the Embassy said the Bank of China donated 30,000 medial masks, 10,000 sets of protective clothing, 10,000 goggles and 50,000 pairs of gloves to Canada on Friday.
The Embassy said it would be followed by N95 medical masks._


----------



## Jim DaddyO

torndownunit said:


> I never wanted to grow up to be a farmer or a taxidermist.


And yet, here you are, still stuffing animals. %h(*&

Sorry, couldn't resist the low hanging fruit, just in jest of course. I am surprised I got that one in before @vadsy ...lol


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Distortion said:


> Really if you had a teenager you would want him rubbing shoulders with several other people all day long and bring the covid virus into your home at night. ? This thing is just getting started in Canada.


Isolated out on a farm and staying there? As good as any other place.


----------



## Distortion

Jim DaddyO said:


> Isolated out on a farm and staying there? As good as any other place.


Do you have a teenager right now ?


----------



## mturk

bolero said:


> this is a good vieo about the effectiveness of masks. worth watching


This is really good information. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## laristotle

Condom shortage looms after coronavirus lockdown shuts world's top producer

_Malaysia’s Karex Bhd makes one in every five condoms globally. It has not produced a single condom from its three Malaysian factories for more than a week due to a lockdown imposed by the government to halt the spread of the virus.

That’s already a shortfall of 100 million condoms, normally marketed internationally by brands such as Durex, supplied to state healthcare systems such as Britain’s NHS or distributed by aid programs such as the UN Population Fund.

The company was given permission to restart production on Friday, but with only 50% of its workforce, under a special exemption for critical industries.

“We are going to see a global shortage of condoms everywhere, which is going to be scary,” he said. “My concern is that for a lot of humanitarian programs deep down in Africa, the shortage will not just be two weeks or a month. That shortage can run into months.”_


----------



## boyscout

laristotle said:


> Condom shortage looms after coronavirus lockdown shuts world's top producer
> 
> _Malaysia’s Karex Bhd makes one in every five condoms globally. It has not produced a single condom from its three Malaysian factories for more than a week due to a lockdown imposed by the government to halt the spread of the virus.
> 
> That’s already a shortfall of 100 million condoms, normally marketed internationally by brands such as Durex, supplied to state healthcare systems such as Britain’s NHS or distributed by aid programs such as the UN Population Fund.
> 
> The company was given permission to restart production on Friday, but with only 50% of its workforce, under a special exemption for critical industries.
> 
> “We are going to see a global shortage of condoms everywhere, which is going to be scary,” he said. “My concern is that for a lot of humanitarian programs deep down in Africa, the shortage will not just be two weeks or a month. That shortage can run into months.”_


Geez, here goes another buying panic. And a population boom at Christmas time.


----------



## Distortion

laristotle said:


> Condom shortage looms after coronavirus lockdown shuts world's top producer
> 
> _Malaysia’s Karex Bhd makes one in every five condoms globally. It has not produced a single condom from its three Malaysian factories for more than a week due to a lockdown imposed by the government to halt the spread of the virus.
> 
> That’s already a shortfall of 100 million condoms, normally marketed internationally by brands such as Durex, supplied to state healthcare systems such as Britain’s NHS or distributed by aid programs such as the UN Population Fund.
> 
> The company was given permission to restart production on Friday, but with only 50% of its workforce, under a special exemption for critical industries.
> 
> “We are going to see a global shortage of condoms everywhere, which is going to be scary,” he said. “My concern is that for a lot of humanitarian programs deep down in Africa, the shortage will not just be two weeks or a month. That shortage can run into months.”_


Something new for the recycling box.


----------



## Robert1950




----------



## allthumbs56

keto said:


> David Staples, Edmonton Journal reporter, is doing a great job following this story and advocating for our safety. This article does indeed have some political content mixed in with tons of other info, so if you are sensitive to criticism of the government please don't read it. This is basically a complete (I did not say comprehensive, I doubt that's possible) timeline of what we knew when, and Canada's response.
> https://edmontonjournal.com/news/na...rus/wcm/c4aaa4d0-5f3f-4e55-b1c1-bd2a4a9d5d7c/


Wow - that's something to read. Canada's response is clearly shown to be completely political - as a suck up to the WHO (of which Tam is a senior advisor), and to China (oddly where Tam was born). It's embarrassing as all hell now. Two weeks from now it's gonna be criminal.


----------



## colchar

Jim DaddyO said:


> I didn't have the skills at 14 years old either, but there I was, down on the farm for a summer of baling hay. Up early, bed early, eat lots and sweat a lot more. The first 2 weeks were the hardest, but you get used to the hard work and going to bed tired and sore.



I should have been more clear. 

I saw a farmer talking about this on _CTV News_ and when asked about hiring Canadians he said that the migrant workers have specific knowledge and skills with regards to pruning, etc. that could not be quickly taught to Canadians.


----------



## colchar

mhammer said:


> My dad told me that he worked briefly as a tobacco picker in SW Ontario, after they came to Canada. He didn't tell me a lot about it other than that at the end of the day your pants would stand up on their own from all the tobacco juice absorbed.



I have close friends who grew up down that way and very few of them ever picked tobacco.


----------



## Distortion

colchar said:


> I saw a farmer talking about this on _CTV News_ and when asked about hiring Canadians he said that the migrant workers have specific knowledge and skills with regards to pruning, etc. that could not be quickly taught to Canadians.


Exactly the farmer should have said no Canadians including himself can work like his imported seasonal staff. The old Canadians doing the harvest ship sailed about thirty years ago.


----------



## colchar

bolero said:


> this is a good vieo about the effectiveness of masks. worth watching



Not disagreeing with this, but it does bring up the issue of conflicting information again because I have read several stories, including one yesterday, in which doctors say the masks won't do us any good.


----------



## colchar

allthumbs56 said:


> Wow - that's something to read. Canada's response is clearly shown to be completely political - as a suck up to the WHO (of which Tam is a senior advisor), and to China (oddly where Tam was born).


She wasn't born in China, she was born in Hong Kong back when it was still British, and was raised for at least part of her life in the UK. I believe she did her undergrad in the UK as well, before med school at U of T.





> Two weeks from now it's gonna be criminal.


But they'll never be held to account.


----------



## tdotrob

Distortion said:


> Really if you had a teenager you would want him rubbing shoulders with several other people all day long and bring the covid virus into your home at night. ? This thing is just getting started in Canada.


Well that’s the whole point, he could’ve accepted a job at a grocery store already and his mother shut that down really quick. He needs to do something, he’s an athlete and has been used to juggling school, 2 or three sports, weight lifting. Now he is just around and it’s easy to see his spirit declining as days go on. Some good hard work on a farm with good measures put in place for distancing might be just what he needs for his mental health and physical benefits as well as great labor experience.


----------



## knight_yyz

I think the masks are a bit of a weird subject. I'm sure they offer at least partial protection against airborne crap and people sneezing coughing on you. But touch something contaminated and the mask is worth squat. They don't seal against your skin so there is leakage...An N95 mask traps 95% of things around .1 micron or bigger. So theoretically 5% is getting through. So yes you could still breathe it in but 95% is better than nothing in my book. there are N99 masks but good luck finding any and an N99 makes it hard to breathe.


----------



## knight_yyz

Tobacco fields and orchards are pretty darned big! is it necessary to be shoulder to shoulder? I think that social distancing would be a piece of cake. But if they have to share a communal bunk room for sleeping at night, that's another story.


----------



## mhammer

knight_yyz said:


> I think the masks are a bit of a weird subject. I'm sure they offer at least partial protection against airborne crap and people sneezing coughing on you. But touch something contaminated and the mask is worth squat. They don't seal against your skin so there is leakage...An N95 mask traps 95% of things around .1 micron or bigger. So theoretically 5% is getting through. So yes you could still breathe it in but 95% is better than nothing in my book. there are N99 masks but good luck finding any and an N99 makes it hard to breathe.


Which is why the strategy is:
- wear a face mask
- watch what you touch
- try not to touch your face
- wash your hands... a lot
- clean surfaces you have touched, or might touch
- wear disposable gloves, where possible and appropriate.

The N95 masks seem to be intended to allow many normal and _cooperative_ activities, given that they only cover mouth and nose but not eyes.
One doesn't always know when you're going to cough or sneeze or burp, so the masks are a kind of safety net. Insomuch as another person could cough or sneeze in your direction, OR you could get something on your hands and touch your eyes, clearly the masks are not a perfect barrier. But they do go a long way towards not getting droplets from someone else in your breathing passages, or contributing your own droplets to theirs.

I went grocery shopping yesterday. The Food Basics store had a person at the entrance, armed with hand sanitizer and paper towels. After doing my hands, I sprayed the handle of the shopping cart, grabbed some paper towels to hold the cart handle, and once inside the store I used one of those thin plastic bags-on-a-roll as a glove to handle whatever I picked up. The Bulk Barn I went to insisted on providing "personal shoppers" for each patron; essentially a gloved staff member with a cart who would walk around the store with you, measuring and bagging the things you asked them to get for you.


----------



## Electraglide

tomee2 said:


> I did this as a teenager back in Alberta in the 80s. The farmer hired only local kids to do it. Hardest thing i ever did, well maybe bailing in the fall was harder for longer but this was 4 hours of nonstop hard work. We got fed a huge meal and 2 beers after we were done, usually around 1am. I also got paid to do this, which made it worth it.


The hardest thing about bailing was when you turned just a little slow if it was your turn on the truck. Getting hit buy a 50 + lb bale of hay could be disastrous. It wasn't as bad as say working on a tie mill or being on the deck of a drill rig at 17. Catching chickens was dirty and painful, but it was fast. We got paid, no meal at the end and the beers we had to buy ourselves. Did that for a week, catching chickens and then cleaning the barns.


----------



## Electraglide

allthumbs56 said:


> Peaches and cherries for me. We'd be at the Farmer's Market at 7:00am and get loaded into the back of a pickup and whisked away to work the orchard. Dropped off back at the Market with a small pay packet and a bit of fruit (if you weren't sick of looking at it by then). Then we'd walk a couple miles home.


Peaches, Cherries, Apples, you name it, if it grew in the Okanagan I picked it. Tossed a lot of hay too. That was on top of going to school tho you could get time off to go pick fruit. Picked fruit again when we moved back to the Okanagan in '82....the pay was a lot better but the job was just as hard as it had been in the 60's. That's why I only eat Bananas and Oranges now.


----------



## tomee2

Electraglide said:


> The hardest thing about bailing was when you turned just a little slow if it was your turn on the truck. Getting hit buy a 50 + lb bale of hay could be disastrous. It wasn't as bad as say working on a tie mill or being on the deck of a drill rig at 17. Catching chickens was dirty and painful, but it was fast. We got paid, no meal at the end and the beers we had to buy ourselves. Did that for a week, catching chickens and then cleaning the barns.


We didnt have the thrower. We did stooks, 10 bails per stook. Make sense? My kids can't relate at all. Hard work for them is a 2 hr hockey practice. Lawn mowing or raking leaves isn't the same. I didnt do the rig work but my cousins did. One got badly injured and that was it, they all became truckers. Hard working bunch of older cousins that I always looked up to. 
Now, kids do work hard these days too. My daughter works in a fast food place... when those places are busy it is nonstop. I've seen her working after closing to do cleanup and it makes me proud how diligent and hard working she is at it.


----------



## Electraglide

Distortion said:


> Really if you had a teenager you would want him rubbing shoulders with several other people all day long and bring the covid virus into your home at night. ? This thing is just getting started in Canada.


Might as well put a ball and chain around his ankle and hope for the best. If they want to get out, they will and there ain't too much you can do about it.


----------



## Electraglide

tomee2 said:


> We didnt have the thrower. We did stooks, 10 nails per stook. Make sense? My kids can't relate at all. Hard work for them is a 2 hr hockey practice. Lawn mowing or raking leaves isn't the same.
> Now, kids do work hard these days too. My daughter works in a fast food place... when those places are busy it is nonstop. I've seen her working after closing to do cleanup and it makes me proud how diligent and hard working she is at it.


You mean stacks, 10 bales per stack? 








Did that too but most of the time you had the baler with a thrower or two behind it, a truck with a catcher or two behind that. Alfalfa was about the worst, the heaviest bales. When the truck was full it was taken back to the barn and everyone unloaded and stacked.....a lot of this was done in the summer which in the Okanagan was 100+' F. At the end of the day it was up to the canal, off comes the clothes and into the water, boys and girls......watch out for the Rattlesnakes. If we were getting hay etc. from the Okeefe ranch it would be a short drive to Okanagan Lake. Years later did much the same thing when flagging around Monte Lake. Finish the day with hitting the little store for a case of beer and then into the lake. During the summer that was 12+ hrs a day and in hot weather. When you hit the water you could feel your body replenish.


----------



## mhammer

If folks have a few moments to spare, consider contributing your data to this risk map being constructed by some U of T folks.

Flatten


----------



## allthumbs56

knight_yyz said:


> I think the masks are a bit of a weird subject. I'm sure they offer at least partial protection against airborne crap and people sneezing coughing on you. But touch something contaminated and the mask is worth squat. They don't seal against your skin so there is leakage...An N95 mask traps 95% of things around .1 micron or bigger. So theoretically 5% is getting through. So yes you could still breathe it in but 95% is better than nothing in my book. there are N99 masks but good luck finding any and an N99 makes it hard to breathe.


I am reminded of the bomb disposal guy wearing a t-shirt that says "If you see me running try to keep up". If all the hospital staff are wearing masks there must be something to it.


----------



## mturk

colchar said:


> Not disagreeing with this, but it does bring up the issue of conflicting information again because I have read several stories, including one yesterday, in which doctors say the masks won't do us any good.


Then ask yourself why are they wearing them?


----------



## greco

We called them_ stooks _also...
_
Stook_ may also have a general meaning of 'bundle' or 'heap' and applicable to items other than sheaves or bales. For example, in the era when traditional hay-making was common, raked-up piles of hay were also called stooks, shocks, or ricks, although today baling and haylage (either chopped and ensilaged in silos or as bales ensileaged inside polymer wrappers) have largely replaced the stook method of drying hay.

In North America, a stook may also refer to a field stack of six, ten or fifteen small (70–90 lb (30–40 kg)), rectangular bales of hay or straw. These bales may be stacked and deposited by a "stooking machine" or "stooker" that is dragged, sled-like, behind the baler.


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> Condom shortage looms after coronavirus lockdown shuts world's top producer
> 
> _Malaysia’s Karex Bhd makes one in every five condoms globally. It has not produced a single condom from its three Malaysian factories for more than a week due to a lockdown imposed by the government to halt the spread of the virus.
> 
> That’s already a shortfall of 100 million condoms, normally marketed internationally by brands such as Durex, supplied to state healthcare systems such as Britain’s NHS or distributed by aid programs such as the UN Population Fund.
> 
> The company was given permission to restart production on Friday, but with only 50% of its workforce, under a special exemption for critical industries.
> 
> “We are going to see a global shortage of condoms everywhere, which is going to be scary,” he said. “My concern is that for a lot of humanitarian programs deep down in Africa, the shortage will not just be two weeks or a month. That shortage can run into months.”_


How's the Saran Wrap and pig intestine market doing. Not too sure if, " I promise I'll stop before then" will work any better than it did years ago.


----------



## vadsy

knight_yyz said:


> I think the masks are a bit of a weird subject. I'm sure they offer at least partial protection against airborne crap and people sneezing coughing on you. But touch something contaminated and the mask is worth squat. They don't seal against your skin so there is leakage...An N95 mask traps 95% of things around .1 micron or bigger. So theoretically 5% is getting through. So yes you could still breathe it in but 95% is better than nothing in my book. there are N99 masks but good luck finding any and an N99 makes it hard to breathe.





colchar said:


> Not disagreeing with this, but it does bring up the issue of conflicting information again because I have read several stories, including one yesterday, in which doctors say the masks won't do us any good.


thinkin like this got us healing crystals and essential oils. that led to suntanning your buttholes and jamming magical eggs up the vag to ward off the evil virus spirits


----------



## mturk

knight_yyz said:


> I think the masks are a bit of a weird subject. I'm sure they offer at least partial protection against airborne crap and people sneezing coughing on you. But touch something contaminated and the mask is worth squat. They don't seal against your skin so there is leakage...An N95 mask traps 95% of things around .1 micron or bigger. So theoretically 5% is getting through. So yes you could still breathe it in but 95% is better than nothing in my book. there are N99 masks but good luck finding any and an N99 makes it hard to breathe.


yes this is talked about in the video. The “dose” of infection you get matters. In other words if a mask can prevent 75 or 80% of the viral molecules (or whatever the proper terminology is) entering then your body has more of a chance to build antibodies rather than if bombarded with the virus. Even covering your nose and mouth with cotton from a t shirt helps.


----------



## Electraglide

colchar said:


> I should have been more clear.
> 
> I saw a farmer talking about this on _CTV News_ and when asked about hiring Canadians he said that the migrant workers have specific knowledge and skills with regards to pruning, etc. that could not be quickly taught to Canadians.


True, it takes quite a while to learn how to prune and thin properly. Same as with hand planting. Not something you can teach or pick up in a day or two. The migrant workers have been doing this for years and the follow the season same as they follow the harvest.


----------



## Lincoln

Electraglide said:


> How's the Saran Wrap and pig intestine market doing. Not too sure if, " I promise I'll stop before then" will work any better than it did years ago.


there's always the good old bread bag.

"any port in a storm"


----------



## keto

colchar said:


> Not disagreeing with this, but it does bring up the issue of conflicting information again because I have read several stories, including one yesterday, in which doctors say the masks won't do us any good.


Very true on the conflicting. Makes me wonder why, as I read in the past day or 2, China has DRONES flying around broadcasting WEAR YOUR MASK, and everyone in public in Taiwan is supposed to (encouraged at least) have one.

Meanwhile, I was phone diagnosed by AHS. Only took about 1.5hrs on hold this morn, and I did that as option 2 after calling my doc's office and being told they wouldn't see me without calling the AHS 811 first. I have been diagnosed with A COLD omg. Which I pretty much knew, as I have no fever. Hurts like hell to cough tho, tearing up my esophagus (no, as @greco pointed out to me, my trachea, Not esophagus).

They still told me to isolate, of course.


----------



## Electraglide

tdotrob said:


> Well that’s the whole point, he could’ve accepted a job at a grocery store already and his mother shut that down really quick. He needs to do something, he’s an athlete and has been used to juggling school, 2 or three sports, weight lifting. Now he is just around and it’s easy to see his spirit declining as days go on. Some good hard work on a farm with good measures put in place for distancing might be just what he needs for his mental health and physical benefits as well as great labor experience.


Depending on what kind of farm it is and what he's doing those distancing measures are hard to keep. Catching chickens is a good example, it's fast and you have to work as a group.


----------



## keto

Migrant farm workers, I got real money says the gov't allows them in without quarantine, within the next few days. Wanna bet against it?


----------



## Electraglide

knight_yyz said:


> I think the masks are a bit of a weird subject. I'm sure they offer at least partial protection against airborne crap and people sneezing coughing on you. But touch something contaminated and the mask is worth squat. They don't seal against your skin so there is leakage...An N95 mask traps 95% of things around .1 micron or bigger. So theoretically 5% is getting through. So yes you could still breathe it in but 95% is better than nothing in my book. there are N99 masks but good luck finding any and an N99 makes it hard to breathe.


The N95 and N99 should be for drs., nurses, etc. only....not joe schmoe walking down the street. I've seen a lot of people get out of their cars, put a mask and gloves on, walk into a store for 5 minutes, walk out of the store and toss the masks and gloves. When I saw my Dr. yesterday he was wearing an N95 mask wan a face shield. He only took the face shield off when he took my blood pressure. When I asked him he said he only uses two masks a day and the face shield gets cleaned every hr. 
A lot of masks out there offer little or no protection. I've had to wear a lot of different kinds of masks over the years....the standard dust masks don't seal worth shit.


----------



## Electraglide

[QUOTE="mhammer, post: 2664390, member: 2708" The Bulk Barn I went to insisted on providing "personal shoppers" for each patron; essentially a gloved staff member with a cart who would walk around the store with you, measuring and bagging the things you asked them to get for you.[/QUOTE]
Same here. Sounds like company policy. Funny thing, they were out of baking yeast and low on some flours.....must be more people making their own bread. I have enough to last me for now but I'm going to get some brewersa yeast and try some beer bread.


----------



## allthumbs56

Electraglide said:


> How's the Saran Wrap and pig intestine market doing. Not too sure if, " I promise I'll stop before then" will work any better than it did years ago.


As long as you're 2 meters apart it will


----------



## Electraglide

greco said:


> We called them_ stooks _also...
> _
> Stook_ may also have a general meaning of 'bundle' or 'heap' and applicable to items other than sheaves or bales. For example, in the era when traditional hay-making was common, raked-up piles of hay were also called stooks, shocks, or ricks, although today baling and haylage (either chopped and ensilaged in silos or as bales ensileaged inside polymer wrappers) have largely replaced the stook method of drying hay.
> 
> In North America, a stook may also refer to a field stack of six, ten or fifteen small (70–90 lb (30–40 kg)), rectangular bales of hay or straw. These bales may be stacked and deposited by a "stooking machine" or "stooker" that is dragged, sled-like, behind the baler.


Ok, we called them stacks as in "follow the baler and stack the hay until the truck gets here". Stooks were raked up piles of hay tied with more hay. Loaded on a trailer and tossed in a pile. Never had stooker or stacker machines in my area. There were some farmers who still "stooked" and I tried tossing some.....it's an art.


----------



## allthumbs56

keto said:


> They still told me to isolate, of course.


Easier to find the body 

I keeeed I keeeed


----------



## Electraglide

Lincoln said:


> there's always the good old bread bag.
> 
> "any port in a storm"


True. Do you put the whole thing on or just tear off a chunk? Not to be confused with paper bag usage.


----------



## Electraglide

allthumbs56 said:


> As long as you're 2 meters apart it will


Or in a position where you don't breathe on each other. Wheelbarrow and leapfrog come to mind....if you're both tall enough. look them up then talk to your wife.


----------



## colchar

‘PATIENT ZERO’: Woman thought to be first COVID-19 victim ‘thought it was the flu’


----------



## colchar

mturk said:


> Then ask yourself why are they wearing them?



First, because it is standard equipment for them in many cases (ie. not just with this thing). Second, they were referring to the general public.


----------



## mhammer

Electraglide said:


> The N95 and N99 should be for drs., nurses, etc. only....not joe schmoe walking down the street. I've seen a lot of people get out of their cars, put a mask and gloves on, walk into a store for 5 minutes, walk out of the store and toss the masks and gloves. When I saw my Dr. yesterday he was wearing an N95 mask wan a face shield. He only took the face shield off when he took my blood pressure. When I asked him he said he only uses two masks a day and the face shield gets cleaned every hr.
> A lot of masks out there offer little or no protection. I've had to wear a lot of different kinds of masks over the years...*.the standard dust masks don't seal worth shit.*


Correct. But there's a whole lotta folks out there who spray-it-when-they-say-it, so covering their mouths is a good thing, even if it doesn't provide a perfect seal. So _some_ mask is better than no mask, but the danger is thinking that any mask is _equivalent_ to any other mask. We may both have a bill in our respective pockets, so we can both claim to have money. But your pocket has a 5 dollar bill and mine has a 50. One wouldn't say those are equal.


----------



## jb welder

keto said:


> David Staples, Edmonton Journal reporter, is doing a great job following this story and advocating for our safety. This article does indeed have some political content mixed in with tons of other info, so if you are sensitive to criticism of the government please don't read it. This is basically a complete (I did not say comprehensive, I doubt that's possible) timeline of what we knew when, and Canada's response.
> https://edmontonjournal.com/news/na...rus/wcm/c4aaa4d0-5f3f-4e55-b1c1-bd2a4a9d5d7c/


Surprised to see zero mention of those quarantined at Trenton (Wuhan and cruise ship returnees). Not sure how he could have overlooked that.
One of the very few things we've done right. I thought it would have become more prevalent but is mostly forgotten.
Need a rescue from a hot-spot? Guess where you're going for awhile. Instead we chose the 'honour system', which most of us will hopefully live to regret.


----------



## mturk

colchar said:


> First, because it is standard equipment for them in many cases (ie. not just with this thing). Second, they were referring to the general public.


Ok but it’s incorrect for them to say that masks won’t do us any good. They could make all the difference in “flattening the curve” if everyone wore them; especially prior to being symptomatic.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

colchar said:


> I should have been more clear.
> 
> I saw a farmer talking about this on _CTV News_ and when asked about hiring Canadians he said that the migrant workers have specific knowledge and skills with regards to pruning, etc. that could not be quickly taught to Canadians.



Yup, that makes things clearer. Thanks.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Distortion said:


> Do you have a teenager right now ?


Nope, both in their 30's. Lots of close relatives in their 20's. Lots more under 10.


----------



## Guitar101

Electraglide said:


> Ok, we called them stacks as in "follow the baler and stack the hay until the truck gets here". Stooks were raked up piles of hay tied with more hay. Loaded on a trailer and tossed in a pile. Never had stooker or stacker machines in my area. There were some farmers who still "stooked" and I tried tossing some.....it's an art.


These were stacked on wagon, backed up into the barn (with horses back in the day) and a hay hook would pick them up. They would run on a pulley at the peak of the barn and dropped where the farmer wanted them. This is why some old barns are so high. It take much more room to stack loose hay in the barn then it does for baled hay.


----------



## Guitar101

Electraglide said:


> True. Do you put the whole thing on or just tear off a chunk? Not to be confused with paper bag usage.


You would probably use the smaller ones that are used for raisin bread. If it breaks, you would probably be raisin a kid.


----------



## laristotle

Go to your butcher and ask for sausage casing. Cut to length, tie off the end.


----------



## davetcan

Pretty massive fail when viewed through that lens. Hindsight is always 20/20 but all of the signs were there. We should have learned from SARS.



keto said:


> David Staples, Edmonton Journal reporter, is doing a great job following this story and advocating for our safety. This article does indeed have some political content mixed in with tons of other info, so if you are sensitive to criticism of the government please don't read it. This is basically a complete (I did not say comprehensive, I doubt that's possible) timeline of what we knew when, and Canada's response.
> https://edmontonjournal.com/news/na...rus/wcm/c4aaa4d0-5f3f-4e55-b1c1-bd2a4a9d5d7c/


----------



## Eric Reesor

boyscout said:


> Geez, if that's supposed to be a coherent rebuttal of the information I posted, I'll stick with my source thanks.
> 
> I don't remember his name but he's in the Faculty of Information (news to me there was such a thing!) at U of T. His days lately are devoted to collecting and reading authoritative information - very likely including peer-reviewed studies - about the pandemic and isolating generally-useful facts from it. His information about the virus surviving better in the cold, especially on metal and hard plastic surfaces, wasn't his own speculation; it came from science-based information he has collected.
> 
> So we're gonna need to see the peer-reviewed studies supporting your claim that increases in the oxygen content of colder air ensure that the virus has a shorter life in it.
> 
> Congratulations on your success at helping to keep bugs out of the seniors facility where you work, but I'll warrant that if we were all wiping hydrogen peroxide on everything around us everywhere we go then the rest of us would have less of a problem too.


I am not disputing that indeed the virus may have an ability to evade encapsulation destruction and thus survive in colder temperatures even if exposed to oxidizing agents. Then the question becomes how and why. That is the beauty of science, peer review is not an evil it is an essential especially when an observation defies logic. If indeed it can survive without being first frozen, like an human embryo or some species of frogs and other animals can, then just perhaps other methods and agents are needed to break the encapsulation and render the virus inert. Don't get me wrong I am not at all making light of this disease Please do not take my post as a personal criticism of anyone or their work. I would shake your hand on this but?????


----------



## Eric Reesor

laristotle said:


> Go to your butcher and ask for sausage casing. Cut to length, tie off the end.


Nah, go really old school and use Roman technology. 
Sheep intestines, which can be pre stretched and thinned to almost nothing before they go bang. Just don't kill off all the sheep for the sake of getting it on safely. We still need the product for the production of strings for accurate sound from *"period"* instruments. Not as an instrument to prevent problems with the interruption thereof the aforementioned emphasised word.


----------



## mhammer

Guitar101 said:


> These were stacked on wagon, backed up into the barn (with horses back in the day) and a hay hook would pick them up. They would run on a pulley at the peak of the barn and dropped where the farmer wanted them. This is why some old barns are so high. It take much more room to stack loose hay in the barn then it does for baled hay.


I did not know what the purpose of those plastic "shrink-wrap" covers on hay bales was until I was speaking with the brother-in-law of my sister-in-law this past Christmas. He's a 3rd generation farmer just outside Orillia. I was unaware that if the hay gets damp, the mold that develops leads the cows to simply turn their noses up at it. The hay needs to be kept dry to be viable food. Some of that is done by a barn, of course, but the shrink-wrapping of the hay makes sure moisture stays out.


----------



## vadsy

I’m surprised you needed a 3rd generation expert to get to the bottom of that mystery. Even still, if the wrap isn’t on the bale you only lose a couple of inches as the outer layer develops a crust and protects the inside. In the spring the bale is simply broken open and unrolled so the animals can feed.


----------



## mhammer

I always thought it was just for ease-of-handling and stacking. I was unaware of the cows' preferences. You would figure that cows _might_ produce inferior milk or maybe get sick if something goes bad in the feed. But you don't normally think of cows as being fussy. I needed a 3rd-generation farmer to tell me what cows do and don't like. I also wasn't aware of actively dairy farmers manage the ongoing nutrient balance of the feed over the year and seasonal changes so that the milk produced has the same taste 12 months out of 12.


----------



## vadsy

At least you didn’t think it was marshmallows being grown by our local farmers


----------



## mhammer

So the current mortality rate among diagnosed cases is just under 4.7% (30,851 deaths out of 662,967 diagnosed cases). Since "diagnosed cases" is reflective of the extent of both testing and reporting (and Russia is still reporting only 1200+ cases and 4 deaths; same for Saudi Arabia), if we tested EVERYBODY, the mortality rate would be lower, since the denominator would now also include asymptomatic folks as well as those who were suspicious of their state and asked to be tested. But the initial mortality rate, based on known diagnosed cases, was estimated to be about 2% and thought to likely drop to around 1% or so. So 4.7% with_ increased_ testing is not exactly going in the anticipated direction. Personally, I'm not anxious, but something more than a "Meh, it'll blow over" is warranted.


----------



## mhammer

vadsy said:


> At least you didn’t think it was marshmallows being grown by our local farmers


Nah. Can't fool me. I've NEVER heard of a mug of hot chocolate that big.


----------



## vadsy

mhammer said:


> Nah. Can't fool me. I've NEVER heard of a mug of hot chocolate that big.


It goes through a process where they harvest all the sizes necessary for the different sized cups out there


----------



## jb welder

I'm not sure what they allow migrants to be brought in for out east, but we sure don't get them for nice jobs like baling (bailing is for boats  ) or apple picking out here. 
They do jobs that no one else will do (at least for _that_ money) like hoeing and picking whatever out in the hot sun at a very _non_-leisurely pace. Thus my comment about kids not doing those jobs. No disrespect intended toward @Jim DaddyO , maybe they have jobs done by migrants there that you would allow your kids to do. Not here.


----------



## davetcan

We're actually running under 1% mortality rate here in Canada, and that's based on "known" or tested cases. That should put the actual rate at something significantly less. Seems too good to be true but I'll take it.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

jb welder said:


> They do jobs that no one else will do (at least for _that_ money) like hoeing and picking


Story interlude:

When I was a boy, and just figuring out what girls were, my sister was renting a farm and we used to visit. The farmer was very wealthy, and worked hard to get there. He instilled the hard work ethic into his children. His 2 daughters, in their early 20's, had the 100 acres around the property that my sister's house was on. They tended the field, by hand, growing cucumbers. They would arrive early in the morning with their track suits on, and by the time the sun got going were down to bikini's. I remember spending a lot of time in that back yard gazing in wonder at those two very fit young ladies tending to that field.


----------



## jb welder

Track suits? Were they pickers or peelers?


----------



## Jim DaddyO

jb welder said:


> Track suits? Were they pickers or peelers?



The farmers daughters. You may stereo type now.


----------



## 10409

There’s a blurb about the usa’s outbreak Apex being in 3 week’s time. Because apparently people are still trying to predict things.

I don’t know why and I wish I hadn’t but I did some number projections based on random figures not solid enough to dispute so call me an idiot, I think I need to hear it.

To get these results I took the current tally and added 15% per day for 21 days

Current: 123,000
Day 5: 247,397
Day 10:497,604
Day 13: 756 794 - noteable as now we’re at 100k per day

Day 21: 2 315 050, 300k/day. they predict the stop of the daily climb at this point.

I’m wrong right?


----------



## bolero

the takeaway I got from this:

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/na...rus/wcm/c4aaa4d0-5f3f-4e55-b1c1-bd2a4a9d5d7c/

is that saying "working closely to co-ordinate with the WHO" 

means "doing fuck all to plan & prepare"


----------



## vadsy




----------



## Wardo

davetcan said:


> We're actually running under 1% mortality rate here in Canada, and that's based on "known" or tested cases. That should put the actual rate at something significantly less. Seems too good to be true but I'll take it.


Kinda puts a new spin on the term 1%er but I’m taking this to mean that I can continue to act irresponsibly and buy more guitars.


----------



## colchar

mturk said:


> Ok but it’s incorrect for them to say that masks won’t do us any good. They could make all the difference in “flattening the curve” if everyone wore them; especially prior to being symptomatic.



Not sure you should be saying they are incorrect. Their point was that the masks wouldn't help prevent one from becoming ill. And if they didn't do that, then they obviously won't help flatten the curve. They are the experts, not us.

The link below contains the following info (have to scroll way down to find it):
"_Gandhi, from the Ontario Medical Association, said face masks are not necessary for those who are not sick.


“If you’re healthy, don’t wear a mask. But wash your hands regularly.”


The same advice has been given to Canadians by officials, including chief public health officer of Canada Dr. Theresa Tam.

“Wearing masks when you’re well is not an effective measure. Sometimes it can actually present some risks, as you’re putting your fingers up and down on your face, removing your mask, putting them next to your eyes,” Dr. Tam said at an earlier media briefing.

She noted masks are more useful for people who are “actually sick.”_"

Coronavirus: Canadian doctors call for smarter use of medical gear amid supply concerns


The CDC says:
“_CDC does not recommend that people who are well wear a facemask to protect themselves from respiratory illnesses, including COVID-19. You should only wear a mask if a healthcare professional recommends it. A facemask should be used by people who have COVID-19 and are showing symptoms._”


The following info is from the _Bloomberg_ story linked below:
_Authorities have said different things in different places about whether healthy people should go around wearing face masks to protect themselves from the novel coronavirus responsible for the Covid-19 pandemic. Officials in China, Hong Kong and Taiwan recommend it in crowded places such as buses or subway cars. But experts at the World Health Organization and in the U.S. say there’s no such need. In any case, the popular demand for masks has aggravated a shortage of them among medical personnel, who need them the most.
_
"_*1. Why the difference in guidance?*
For one thing, the practice of wearing medical masks in public is much more entrenched in eastern Asia. It emerged as a convention during the 2002-2003 epidemic of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), which also was caused by a coronavirus. For another, there’s no scientific consensus on the value of wearing a mask in public. A few small studies have suggested that widespread use of face masks by the public may have reduced transmission in outbreaks of influenza and SARS, which like Covid-19 are respiratory diseases. However, the evidence is not generally considered conclusive.

*2. Why not wear one to be safe?*
Some medical specialists say one should, especially in light of evidence that a significant portion of those infected with the novel coronavirus don’t show symptoms and so may remain out and about. Others argue that it’s irresponsible for members of the public to buy up masks that are in short supply. U.S. Surgeon General Jerome Adams tweeted, “Seriously people - STOP BUYING MASKS!” The scarcity among health-care providers, he said, raises the overall risk to the community: Infected providers can spread the virus to the uninfected and once sick can’t look after patients. The argument is that everyone is better off if masks are reserved for those who certainly require them and who can’t avoid exposure to people who are infected or might be.

*3. Is there any agreement on when non-medical people should wear masks?*

Yes: if they are coughing or sneezing. A cough is a common symptom of Covid-19, and the novel coronavirus spreads in respiratory droplets -- spatters of liquid expelled with an infected person coughs, sneezes or even speaks. These droplets are usually heavy enough to fall immediately to the ground or surrounding surfaces. Infection can occur if the droplets reach the mouth, nose or possibly the eye of someone nearby, either directly or from an unwashed hand that’s touched a contaminated object or surface. When patients diagnosed with Covid-19 are recovering at home, they and their caregivers are advised to wear masks when in the same room._"

Mask or No Mask? This Is What the Virus Experts Say


The following is from CBS News (link below):
"_As fears over the coronavirus outbreak spread, thousands of Americans are clamoring to buy face masks in an effort to protect themselves, sending prices soaring and leading manufacturers like 3M to ramp up production. However, experts say stocking up on face masks is actually misguided — and there's a much simpler thing you could be doing right now to protect yourself.


There's a lot the general public likely doesn't realize about these masks — namely, that they are not the best way to prevent the spread of coronavirus.
_
_*Wearing a mask is more for people already showing symptoms of coronavirus and their caregivers than for people trying to prevent it*_"

The No. 1 way to prevent coronavirus isn't wearing a face mask

And from _Forbes_:
Despite COVID-19 Coronavirus, Here Is Why You Should Stop Buying Face Masks


----------



## colchar

Wardo said:


> Kinda puts a new spin on the term 1%er but I’m taking this to mean that I can continue to act irresponsibly and buy more guitars.



Yeah it looks like I am about to pick up an SG Standard. I don't need one as I already have a 335 and a Tele for normal playing, and a SG Special that is set up for slide, but I'm bored and have money sitting around so why not act irresponsibly?


----------



## colchar

mike_oxbig said:


> There’s a blurb about the usa’s outbreak Apex being in 3 week’s time. Because apparently people are still trying to predict things.
> 
> I don’t know why and I wish I hadn’t but I did some number projections based on random figures not solid enough to dispute so call me an idiot, I think I need to hear it.
> 
> To get these results I took the current tally and added 15% per day for 21 days
> 
> Current: 123,000
> Day 5: 247,397
> Day 10:497,604
> Day 13: 756 794 - noteable as now we’re at 100k per day
> 
> Day 21: 2 315 050, 300k/day. they predict the stop of the daily climb at this point.
> 
> I’m wrong right?



No idea, but I heard last night that the number of cases in the UK doubles every 3.5 days.


----------



## colchar

Jim DaddyO said:


> The farmers daughters. You may stereo type now.



Sweet Jebus. Ima need some alone time now......................


----------



## Electraglide

Guitar101 said:


> These were stacked on wagon, backed up into the barn (with horses back in the day) and a hay hook would pick them up. They would run on a pulley at the peak of the barn and dropped where the farmer wanted them. This is why some old barns are so high. It take much more room to stack loose hay in the barn then it does for baled hay.


Yup, we used to jump from the loft to the hay pile at the neighbours barn. He wouldn't stook it, just cut it and load it onto a wagon and then toss it or haul it into the loft. There were chutes from the loft to the milking stalls inside the barn for the dairy cows. They would eat hay while being milked. We only had two dairy cows so bales were stored in our barn loft. Feed bales for the outside horses was kept in another barn and straw bales were kept under tarps outside. That hay hook would work just as good for bales as for loose hay. We did have some loose hay in the one barn but that usually was used for another purpose.


----------



## Electraglide

Guitar101 said:


> You would probably use the smaller ones that are used for raisin bread. If it breaks, you would probably be raisin a kid.


These work but the paper tears at just the wrong time. 








Then there's Bacon.
Bacon Condoms and Their Slogan ("Make Your Meat Look Like Meat") Might Finally Turn You Vegetarian


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> Go to your butcher and ask for sausage casing. Cut to length, tie off the end.


"You want some sausage darling?". I guess you could buy one of these and be careful how you peel it. Might add flavor.


----------



## Electraglide

Eric Reesor said:


> Nah, go really old school and use Roman technology.
> Sheep intestines, which can be pre stretched and thinned to almost nothing before they go bang. Just don't kill off all the sheep for the sake of getting it on safely. We still need the product for the production of strings for accurate sound from *"period"* instruments. Not as an instrument to prevent problems with the interruption thereof the aforementioned emphasised word.


Yeah but pigs aren't as pleasing as sheep.


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> I did not know what the purpose of those plastic "shrink-wrap" covers on hay bales was until I was speaking with the brother-in-law of my sister-in-law this past Christmas. He's a 3rd generation farmer just outside Orillia. I was unaware that if the hay gets damp, the mold that develops leads the cows to simply turn their noses up at it. The hay needs to be kept dry to be viable food. Some of that is done by a barn, of course, but the shrink-wrapping of the hay makes sure moisture stays out.


If alfalfa gets damp it isn't too good for the cow. It can cause bloat. Not too sure which is worse, using a throat tube or punching a hole in the side of the cow to releave the gas. Mold is even worse, especially for horses.


----------



## Eric Reesor

colchar said:


> Yeah it looks like I am about to pick up an SG Standard. I don't need one as I already have a 335 and a Tele for normal playing, and a SG Special that is set up for slide, but I'm bored and have money sitting around so why not act irresponsibly?


I would rather pick up one of these and do a little old school woodshedding the blues on it during the outbreak that is if we can survive the loss of our RSPs. Who knows maybe I might get a chance to record in peace for a change if the madness and demands upon my time of today finally slows somewhat. So for a little peace in this time of me first, or as the Brits famously abrasive meme of the 60's British counter culture used to say "blow you Jack I'm OK" to the Tories,
Till this storm passes, I will just dream of being able to make these kind of beautiful sounds even if no one else is there to hear it. That is my GAS dream of the day.

PS my tremolo play is coming back quite nicely so I am getting very close to recording again. At least something productive is coming out of being forced into excessive woodshedding because of Covid-19! 
I really like this guys playing! Somehow very calming in this time of isolation madness.


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> I always thought it was just for ease-of-handling and stacking. I was unaware of the cows' preferences. You would figure that cows _might_ produce inferior milk or maybe get sick if something goes bad in the feed. But you don't normally think of cows as being fussy. I needed a 3rd-generation farmer to tell me what cows do and don't like. I also wasn't aware of actively dairy farmers manage the ongoing nutrient balance of the feed over the year and seasonal changes so that the milk produced has the same taste 12 months out of 12.


Cows don't give milk 12 months of the year. They go dry and won't give milk until they have another calf. Usually about a 2 month period. Calf nurses for a day or two then it goes in a pen with other calves and mom goes back to the milk line.


----------



## Electraglide

Jim DaddyO said:


> Story interlude:
> 
> When I was a boy, and just figuring out what girls were, my sister was renting a farm and we used to visit. The farmer was very wealthy, and worked hard to get there. He instilled the hard work ethic into his children. His 2 daughters, in their early 20's, had the 100 acres around the property that my sister's house was on. They tended the field, by hand, growing cucumbers. They would arrive early in the morning with their track suits on, and by the time the sun got going were down to bikini's. I remember spending a lot of time in that back yard gazing in wonder at those two very fit young ladies tending to that field.


Track suits? Must have been in the eighties. I remember girls at the nursery out in the fields thinning or such in their bikini tops and shorts. You could tell the ones who were new to the job by the red glow. When I was a kid tossing bales or picking what the neighbour was growing or tending our acre of mixed garden no matter how slow you took it you always burned. Usually parts of you were beet red and parts were still white. Tossing bales gave you an all over burn.


----------



## Eric Reesor

Electraglide said:


> Yeah but pigs aren't as pleasing as sheep.


Naw, I have never made it that way or been a mad shepherd for that matter, one might say that I only have almost played most of this extremely difficult tune on my axe in the past. 

But to actually be able to play this Bach piece I would have to get a short scale classical or play it with a capo in a different key. It has stretches that are beyond my capabilities and most other players on a full sized instrument. Playing this arrangement is extremely difficult to achieve for us mere guitar playing mortals.


----------



## Electraglide

jb welder said:


> I'm not sure what they allow migrants to be brought in for out east, but we sure don't get them for nice jobs like baling (bailing is for boats  ) or apple picking out here.
> They do jobs that no one else will do (at least for _that_ money) like hoeing and picking whatever out in the hot sun at a very _non_-leisurely pace. Thus my comment about kids not doing those jobs. No disrespect intended toward @Jim DaddyO , maybe they have jobs done by migrants there that you would allow your kids to do. Not here.


I think in the Okanagan they still follow the weather....starting from down south working north as far as they can go, the states and Canada....planting, pruning and thinning etc. then going back south and head north again following the harvest. Hay, fruit, it doesn't matter. I've picked next to them and next to kids who "have to do it". You can tell who's picking the juice fruit.


----------



## Electraglide

Jim DaddyO said:


> The farmers daughters. You may stereo type now.


Thank the dog there were ones like this when I was growing up. A bunch of them used to come out to the ranch for riding lessons.....some would stay the weekends. Thank the dog for hay lofts.


----------



## vadsy

Hey, gramps! You wanna start a story telling thread?


----------



## Eric Reesor

vadsy said:


> Hey, gramps! You wanna start a story telling thread?


Naaah, Just a little less tweeting and a little more bleating please. I is a bit of a sheeple who sometimes laughs at peoples. Or only when absolutely necessary cries. So for the sake of the kid goats out there here is my current kind of activities. To avoid watching the network news these days with our 3 year old granddaughter wanting to look at what I am really doing on the bleating laptop!!!


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Numbers?

Well, if you like them, here is what I see from the numbers.


They predict 30% to 70% of the population will get infected, for arguments sake and easy math let's split the difference at 50%
That is about 19 million people in Canada roughly speaking
At the best it's 1% mortality rate, that's 190,000 deaths in Canada. That assumes adequate health care. Which would be impossible with the numbers. We can probably assume with the medical system over run to be 3 X that, over 500,000 deaths.
The best predictions are 30% infected which is 11.4 million people.
1% of that is 114,00 deaths in Canada. Assuming hospitals can keep up. That is what the numbers best outcome is as far as I know.

Multiply the numbers by 10 to get USA numbers.

and now I wish I hadn't thought of it. It's pretty sobering.


----------



## torndownunit

Jim DaddyO said:


> Numbers?
> 
> Well, if you like them, here is what I see from the numbers.
> 
> 
> They predict 30% to 70% of the population will get infected, for arguments sake and easy math let's split the difference at 50%
> That is about 19 million people in Canada roughly speaking
> At the best it's 1% mortality rate, that's 190,000 deaths in Canada. That assumes adequate health care. Which would be impossible with the numbers. We can probably assume with the medical system over run to be 3 X that, over 500,000 deaths.
> The best predictions are 30% infected which is 11.4 million people.
> 1% of that is 114,00 deaths in Canada. Assuming hospitals can keep up. That is what the numbers best outcome is as far as I know.
> 
> Multiply the numbers by 10 to get USA numbers.
> 
> and now I wish I hadn't thought of it. It's pretty sobering.


"Hospitals keeping up" is the issue where people just can't seem to see the big picture when it comes to the restrictions being asked of us. The Bruce Trail Conservatory groups have asked people to stop using the Bruce and closed a bunch of trails/parking etc. There are a couple of issues why, one is related to that fact the parking lots for popular trails have been packed with people to the point where police has had to be called for traffic control. But an issue people constantly overlook when it comes to something like the Bruce Trail doing this (or towns closing parks etc.) is that it's not just an issue of too many people in one place. What happens if someone get's hurt out on a trail and they need to call in fire/ambulance? The system is already strained, and there's potential for it to be completely overwhelmed very easily. People need to make a sacrifice and just not do certain things for awhile to reduce the chances of that happening. I am an avid hiker, and I could easily go out and find isolated trail to hike on and ignore what they are asking. But I am going to respect the requests being made by the BTC.


----------



## knight_yyz

People are seriously just out to fucking lunch. My sister-in-law posted the link to doug ford saying no more groups of 5 or more. This is his dumbass response...

So that people CANNOT get together to learn if ANYBODY Actually has this Virus. Does Anyone Know Anyone that has died from this or is actually sick from this?

Shaking my fucking head, the asshole actually thinks covid is fake news.


----------



## Ship of fools

Torndowmunit we are seeing the same here search and rescue are as busy as if nothing else was going on stupid people out hiking trails/snow packs and get stuck/lost/injured.


----------



## Budda

EPA suspends enforcement of environmental laws amid coronavirus


----------



## torndownunit

Ship of fools said:


> Torndowmunit we are seeing the same here search and rescue are as busy as if nothing else was going on stupid people out hiking trails/snow packs and get stuck/lost/injured.


I will say that it's likely something a lot of people just aren't thinking about. People think, "Well we are being told to be healthy, isn't closing the trails/parks countering that?". When the Bruce Trail Conservatory announced trail closures here, they really should have mentioned this aspect in their post. It's an issue people need to be made aware of. I think people are finally getting the idea a bit more when it comes to awareness of how this spreads. But they absolutely are not thinking about or understanding the strain on resources when it comes to why certain things are closing.


----------



## Guitar101

mhammer said:


> So the current mortality rate among diagnosed cases is just under 4.7% (30,851 deaths out of 662,967 diagnosed cases). Since "diagnosed cases" is reflective of the extent of both testing and reporting (and Russia is still reporting only 1200+ cases and 4 deaths; same for Saudi Arabia), if we tested EVERYBODY, the mortality rate would be lower, since the denominator would now also include asymptomatic folks as well as those who were suspicious of their state and asked to be tested. But the initial mortality rate, based on known diagnosed cases, was estimated to be about 2% and thought to likely drop to around 1% or so. So 4.7% with_ increased_ testing is not exactly going in the anticipated direction. Personally, I'm not anxious, but something more than a "Meh, it'll blow over" is warranted.


Bill Gates was on CNN a few nights ago and he quotes a mortality rate of 1% so I'm going with that for now but even 1% is high. The small town of Cobourg near me has a population of approx 20000. 1% is 200 people that may die from this virus. That's a lot of families that could be affected. Your right though, we won't know for quite awhile.


----------



## 12 stringer

A reminder ....


----------



## Guitar101

Electraglide said:


> Thank the dog there were ones like this when I was growing up. A bunch of them used to come out to the ranch for riding lessons.....some would stay the weekends. Thank the dog for hay lofts.


Time for a song about girls on the farm.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## torndownunit

Guitar101 said:


> Bill Gates was on CNN a few nights ago and he quotes a mortality rate of 1% so I'm going with that for now but even 1% is high. The small town of Cobourg near me has a population of approx 20000. 1% is 200 people that may die from this virus. That's a lot of families that could be affected. Your right though, we won't know for quite awhile.


I don't think that rate is 1% worldwide though. The average across countries is higher, or at least was.

COVID19info.live

Even the US is showing as 1.8% currently.

I think 1% is the best case scenario they are hoping for. But it goes back to the same issues, if the cases get too high and hospitals get swamped, that number is only going to get higher.


----------



## Milkman

laristotle said:


>


Well, I'm impressed.

And a bit tingly.


----------



## knight_yyz

Wel, they seem to be taking it seriously in India...


----------



## vadsy

http://imgur.com/height%3D1196%3Bid%3DsLS07UJ%3Btype%3Dgifv%3Bwidth%3D960


----------



## davetcan

For the sake of clarity exactly who made the dumbass response and who thinks Covid is fake news?



knight_yyz said:


> People are seriously just out to fucking lunch. My sister-in-law posted the link to doug ford saying no more groups of 5 or more. This is his dumbass response...
> 
> So that people CANNOT get together to learn if ANYBODY Actually has this Virus. Does Anyone Know Anyone that has died from this or is actually sick from this?
> 
> Shaking my fucking head, the asshole actually thinks Covid is fake news.


----------



## knight_yyz




----------



## davetcan

Thanks, it sounded like you were accusing Ford 



knight_yyz said:


>


----------



## davetcan

What could possibly go wrong? 



vadsy said:


> http://imgur.com/height%3D1196%3Bid%3DsLS07UJ%3Btype%3Dgifv%3Bwidth%3D960


----------



## tomee2

Jim DaddyO said:


> Numbers?
> 
> Well, if you like them, here is what I see from the numbers.
> 
> 
> They predict 30% to 70% of the population will get infected, for arguments sake and easy math let's split the difference at 50%
> That is about 19 million people in Canada roughly speaking
> At the best it's 1% mortality rate, that's 190,000 deaths in Canada. That assumes adequate health care. Which would be impossible with the numbers. We can probably assume with the medical system over run to be 3 X that, over 500,000 deaths.
> The best predictions are 30% infected which is 11.4 million people.
> 1% of that is 114,00 deaths in Canada. Assuming hospitals can keep up. That is what the numbers best outcome is as far as I know.
> 
> Multiply the numbers by 10 to get USA numbers.
> 
> and now I wish I hadn't thought of it. It's pretty sobering.


I agree. I’ve been running numbers in spreadsheets for a month now, and although there’s lots of ways to try to predict this, overall the numbers grow pretty fast if it isn’t stopped or slowed somehow.

What I’m seeing from existing data is that the US cases and deaths are growing by a factor of 10 in less than 7 days. 1000 dead last Friday is progressing to 10,000 dead this coming Friday, and 100,000 dead the Friday after. Active cases is a less dependable way to track as it depends on testing, but deaths are a pretty secure way to track it, but both are tracking a straight line on a log curve, and 1,000,000 cases is looking to happen in a week. Seems crazy, but if you look at the size of the US population, and if each big state goes through what NY is in the next few weeks to months, it’ll happen.

I don’t think Canada will be comparable with a 10x factor we’re used to using for other things. Our first case was a week later, our reactions have been quicker, and so far our hospitals haven’t been overwhelmed like the NY ones. If we keep up staying home and hand washing etc. we can come out of this with 1% infected or even lower dying. Our population is also very spread out, and we have a more coordinated health care system federally and provincially. We all complain about it sometimes, and the CBC constantly tries to portray the system as corrupt or broken, but I think it’s actually working.
None of us will get a $65,000 hospital bill after being on ventilator for 4 weeks, but that will happen in the US (unless they legislated to pay for it out of the $2T package).


----------



## torndownunit

knight_yyz said:


>


I can understand on some level people's distrust of the government. But most people personally know a health care worker. All someone has to do is listen to what they have been dealing with. I guess unless you think they are all in on some conspiracy too.


----------



## knight_yyz

davetcan said:


> Thanks, it sounded like you were accusing Ford


Ya, I just reread my post and noticed I didn't say her dumbass friend


----------



## tomee2

Guitar101 said:


> Bill Gates was on CNN a few nights ago and he quotes a mortality rate of 1% so I'm going with that for now but even 1% is high. The small town of Cobourg near me has a population of approx 20000. 1% is 200 people that may die from this virus. That's a lot of families that could be affected. Your right though, we won't know for quite awhile.


A close family member in the thick of this was very upset by his talk, as it was full of conjecture and what ifs but came across as him knowing the answers. That 1% is a guess to make doing the math easy. No one knows yet. It could be 5% or 0.5%


----------



## vadsy

who’s the dumbass?


----------



## torndownunit

tomee2 said:


> I agree. I’ve been running numbers in spreadsheets for a month now, and although there’s lots of ways to try to predict this, overall the numbers grow pretty fast if it isn’t stopped or slowed somehow.
> 
> What I’m seeing from existing data is that the US cases and deaths are growing by a factor of 10 in less than 7 days. 1000 dead last Friday is progressing to 10,000 dead this coming Friday, and 100,000 dead the Friday after. Active cases is a less dependable way to track as it depends on testing, but deaths are a pretty secure way to track it, but both are tracking a straight line on a log curve, and 1,000,000 cases is looking to happen in a week. Seems crazy, but if you look at the size of the US population, and if each big state goes through what NY is in the next few weeks to months, it’ll happen.
> 
> I don’t think Canada will be comparable with a 10x factor we’re used to using for other things. Our first case was a week later, our reactions have been quicker, and so far our hospitals haven’t been overwhelmed like the NY ones. If we keep up staying home and hand washing etc. we can come out of this with 1% infected or even lower dying. Our population is also very spread out, and we have a more coordinated health care system federally and provincially. We all complain about it sometimes, and the CBC constantly tries to portray the system as corrupt or broken, but I think it’s actually working.
> None of us will get a $65,000 hospital bill after being on ventilator for 4 weeks, but that will happen in the US (unless they legislated to pay for it out of the $2T package).


I think Ontario might have issues. We should have taken the control measures that are going on right now (limit gatherings to 5) a couple of weeks ago. Our essential services list is just way too broad too. I mentioned it previously, but our local health centre services a large region, and my relatives who work they say it would barely take any significant increase in cases to immediately log jam them. So I agree with your Canada wide assessment. But I think some areas are in trouble.

Plus, my area is full of people like in the Facebook screenshot above. People are ignoring closures all over town and doing stupid shit.


----------



## tomee2

As long as the vast majority are social distancing etc., it works.


----------



## tomee2

torndownunit said:


> I think Ontario might have issues. We should have taken the control measures that are going on right now (limit gatherings to 5) a couple of weeks ago. Our essential services list is just way too broad too. I mentioned it previously, but our local health centre services a large region, and my relatives who work they say it would barely take any significant increase in cases to immediately log jam them. So I agree with your Canada wide assessment. But I think some areas are in trouble.
> 
> Plus, my area is full of people like in the Facebook screenshot above. People are ignoring closures all over town and doing stupid shit.


I agree. What I meant by overwhelmed was having all respirators used and people waiting to get on them but dying. B.C. is running at near full capacity on the icu units, from a news story last night. Where would they be without social distancing? Italy is just scary, and we really want to avoid that scenario at all costs.


----------



## torndownunit

tomee2 said:


> As long as the vast majority are social distancing etc., it works.


I think in Ontario, the measures taken are just getting to a point where they can be helpful though. They should have been setup before March break. I unfortunately don't know a single person who respected the quarantine when they got back from vacations. Off my head there are 6 people I know who completely ignored it. I don't exactly have a huge social circle, so it makes me scared about what all is going on out there.


----------



## tomee2

torndownunit said:


> I think in Ontario, the measures taken are just getting to a point where they can be helpful though. They should have been setup before March break. I unfortunately don't know a single person who respected the quarantine when they got back from vacations. Off my head there are 6 people I know who completely ignored it. I don't exactly have a huge social circle, so it makes me scared about what all is going on out there.


Yes, they dropped the ball with March break for sure, but closing the schools was right on the mark. 2 neighbors went, both came back early in a panic, neither have been home 100% for 2 weeks. I saw the cars go out a few times, but who knows where they went, maybe just a drive. Family is bringing them food, and Amazon boxes were out on recycling day.


----------



## torndownunit

tomee2 said:


> Yes, they dropped the ball with March break for sure, but closing the schools was right on the mark. 2 neighbors went, both came back early in a panic, neither have been home 100% for 2 weeks. I saw the cars go out a few times, but who knows where they went, maybe just a drive. Family is bringing them food, and Amazon boxes were out on recycling day.


I don't know if the idea was to ease in restrictions. But if it was, that backfired. It just resulted in people not taking things seriously.


----------



## knight_yyz

My Boss was telling me about an acquaintance of his. Lives in Boston. Came to Canada, wasn't screened, picked up some family members went to London England. Then drove to Scotland. Was diagnosed with Covid when he got to Scotland... I wonder how many he infected along his way?


Why are places like Dollarama open? What on earth do they sell that is essential? Junk food? My dog chewed up 2 pairs of running shoes. I could really use a new pair, but i am wearing winter boots until the stores start opening again. I'm not even sure if I could find a decent pair of shoes right now.


----------



## vadsy

Did that really happen?


----------



## allthumbs56

At least they're starting to clear up the backlog of test processing in Ontario:

https://www.ontario.ca/page/2019-novel-coronavirus#section-0

Trying to track the spread using a number of 500 infected is useless if there are over 10,000 tests awaiting processing. By the time those results are in it will make mincemeat out of the confirmed number.

As you can see, as of this morning they cleared over 3,000 tests since yesterday- and doubled the confirmed cases. That's about 1 in 6 tested being confirmed I think.

On the news last night Ontario says it will have testing capabilities ramped up significantly by the end of next week.

We have not seen anything like this before. In 2003 SARS infected 8,000 people globally with 700-odd deaths. To my knowledge no vaccine or cure ever surfaced for SARS. It's not a surprise that our health and government people have no idea how to react.


----------



## boyscout

torndownunit said:


> I don't think that rate is 1% worldwide though. The average across countries is higher, or at least was.


People are seeing reported death rates ranging from about one percent to ten percent. A principle reason for the variability in these reports is the variability of testing.

Where there is high availability and wide testing, many more people who may not have or get severe symptoms get recorded in the "total infections" number, so the proportion of deaths is a smaller part of that bigger total infections number = lower death rate.

Where testing is less available - like here in Ontario and other parts of Canada where people have been tested only if they have significant symptoms because we don't have the resources to test more people - there are fewer people being recorded in the "total infections" pool and therefore the proportion of deaths is a higher percentage of that pool = higher death rate.

Availability and efficacy of treatment is another factor, but authorities are saying that testing is the big factor in the variability of fatality rates.


----------



## sulphur

knight_yyz said:


> My Boss was telling me about an acquaintance of his. Lives in Boston. Came to Canada, wasn't screened, picked up some family members went to London England. Then drove to Scotland. Was diagnosed with Covid when he got to Scotland... I wonder how many he infected along his way?
> 
> 
> Why are places like Dollarama open? What on earth do they sell that is essential? Junk food? My dog chewed up 2 pairs of running shoes. I could really use a new pair, but i am wearing winter boots until the stores start opening again. I'm not even sure if I could find a decent pair of shoes right now.


Order online.


----------



## Doug Gifford

Guitar101 said:


> Time for a song about girls on the farm.


great song


----------



## davetcan




----------



## knight_yyz

I need to try on running shoes before buying.... wide feet and high arches.


----------



## mhammer

torndownunit said:


> I don't think that rate is 1% worldwide though. The average across countries is higher, or at least was.
> 
> COVID19info.live
> 
> Even the US is showing as 1.8% currently.
> 
> I think 1% is the best case scenario they are hoping for. But it goes back to the same issues, if the cases get too high and hospitals get swamped, that number is only going to get higher.


The mortality rate is going to vary with:
a) the extent to which testing has been done, relative to the number of deaths reported
b) the extent to which the nation's health-care system can tend to everyone who is currently sick whether with this virus or something else (wait, you mean people still also have cancer and heart disease? the _nerve_ of some people!)
c) the rate of contagion spread as a function of national and regional response, population density, culture, etc.

My earlier calculated figure of 4.7% is based on the total number of formally diagnosed cases - which still leaves out a lot of people - and the number of recorded deaths attributed to the virus. Given that mortality is highest in those who have "underlying health conditions", I imagine in some instances (though not many) the virus made the underlying condition worse, so attribution of death to the virus *or *the existing condition is a judgment call.

The Worldometer stats, interestingly enough, also show number recovered. There is a fair degree of nation to nation variation in the number recovered, relative to the number of cases and number of deaths. One doesn't know what their criteria for "recovered" are, and certainly recovery itself takes time, as does the progress of any single infection case. So the numbers are obviously going to be subject to change. And likelihood of recovery, as always, is a function of how early something is diagnosed and treated. But that said, I expect the mortality *and* recovery rates are going to vary by nation as a function of their respective capacity to handle and treat cases. And if the ventilator and mask situation in the USA get ironed out, with a more effective distribution system, I imagine we'll see different mortality and recovery rates, state by state, as well. But as the guy says, "We'll see what happens".


----------



## 10409

“LORD, you said that once I decided to follow
you, you'd walk with me all the way.
But I have noticed that during the most
troublesome times in my life,
there is only one set of footprints.”

“Yeah sorry, thought you were contagious”


----------



## vadsy

knight_yyz said:


> I need to try on running shoes before buying.... wide feet and high arches.


You need to spend some time training that dog.


----------



## allthumbs56

knight_yyz said:


> My dog chewed up 2 pairs of running shoes. I could really use a new pair, but i am wearing winter boots until the stores start opening again. I'm not even sure if I could find a decent pair of shoes right now.


Good running shoes may become vital for social distancing


----------



## Ship of fools

No not sure what you watched on the news last night tomee 2 but the hospitals here in BC are doing okay accept for being short on supplies ( masks/gloves and facesheilds ). There have been bed movements to make space for any surge of patients and its the first time in many years where the emergency department has been steady and not over whelmed.
And mostly folks are doing well with distancing them self's from each other in stores and streets so we are seeing a possible down turn of the curve, not a lot but a beginning and maybe a little lite at the end of the tunnel. So I'm hoping that the glass is more then half full. 
Its great to see how many people have signs in their windows saying I'm working from home to when I drive my wife to work and pick up my daughter at the same place ( they can't work from home hospital workers ) and it gets me out of the house for a bit so I don't go stir crazy..


----------



## Electraglide

tomee2 said:


> I agree. I’ve been running numbers in spreadsheets for a month now, and although there’s lots of ways to try to predict this, overall the numbers grow pretty fast if it isn’t stopped or slowed somehow.
> 
> What I’m seeing from existing data is that the US cases and deaths are growing by a factor of 10 in less than 7 days. 1000 dead last Friday is progressing to 10,000 dead this coming Friday, and 100,000 dead the Friday after. Active cases is a less dependable way to track as it depends on testing, but deaths are a pretty secure way to track it, but both are tracking a straight line on a log curve, and 1,000,000 cases is looking to happen in a week. Seems crazy, but if you look at the size of the US population, and if each big state goes through what NY is in the next few weeks to months, it’ll happen.
> 
> I don’t think Canada will be comparable with a 10x factor we’re used to using for other things. Our first case was a week later, our reactions have been quicker, and so far our hospitals haven’t been overwhelmed like the NY ones. If we keep up staying home and hand washing etc. we can come out of this with 1% infected or even lower dying. Our population is also very spread out, and we have a more coordinated health care system federally and provincially. We all complain about it sometimes, and the CBC constantly tries to portray the system as corrupt or broken, but I think it’s actually working.
> None of us will get a $65,000 hospital bill after being on ventilator for 4 weeks, but that will happen in the US (unless they legislated to pay for it out of the $2T package).


If it goes like this how long will it be before every one in New York, Chicago, L.A and Miami will be dead? Canada has what, 63 dead? That means there should be what, 630 dead by next Sunday? We'll see what Canada is like next Sunday.


----------



## Dorian2

laristotle said:


>


pfffffft


----------



## Electraglide

tomee2 said:


> I agree. What I meant by overwhelmed was having all respirators used and people waiting to get on them but dying. B.C. is running at near full capacity on the icu units, from a news story last night. Where would they be without social distancing? Italy is just scary, and we really want to avoid that scenario at all costs.


This is from the Sun, yesterday.
*CASE SUMMARY*
As of the latest numbers released on March 28, 2020, there are a total of 884 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in B.C.

• The cases span all B.C. health regions: Vancouver Coastal (444), Fraser Health (291), Island Health (60), Interior Health (77) and Northern Health (12).

• 17 people have died, 81 are in hospital (52 in intensive care) and 396 have recovered.

• As of March 27, 36,643 individuals have been tested in B.C.

• Testing capacity in British Columbia has increased to approximately 3,500 tests per day.
I think there are a few more than 52 ICU units in BC that will hold quit a few people.


----------



## Distortion

yes those death rates are with the present ability to treat the virus. The rate will be much higher if it gets to point where the most serious do not have access to hospital and ventilators due to too many people infected..Social distancing is the only answer at this point.


----------



## Dorian2

There was a clip on the News in Edmonton that a number of Surgeons/Docs are trying to clear as many surgeries as possible before the shit hits the fan. Cancer, transplants, and I'd imagine general emergency surgeries from car accidents and such included. I know everyone is focused on the Virus, but the system has been overloaded for some time, even without the virus. Anyone who's gone for a blood test over the last couple of years can see what Healthcare is up against. @mhammer and others have touched on this already. I think we'll do fine if perspective and actions are kept in check. Flatten that curve.


----------



## mhammer

RE: what is listed as cause of death when someone with an "underlying health condition" dies?
That very question is asked of Dr. Fauci in this video at 13:15. He gives a pretty common sense reply.


----------



## colchar

Electraglide said:


> Yeah but pigs aren't as pleasing as sheep.



What the hell was that from again?


----------



## colchar

tomee2 said:


> I agree. I’ve been running numbers in spreadsheets for a month now, and although there’s lots of ways to try to predict this, overall the numbers grow pretty fast if it isn’t stopped or slowed somehow.
> 
> What I’m seeing from existing data is that the US cases and deaths are growing by a factor of 10 in less than 7 days. 1000 dead last Friday is progressing to 10,000 dead this coming Friday, and 100,000 dead the Friday after.



There are only 2363 dead right now. I cannot see it hitting 10,000 by Friday.


----------



## Electraglide

knight_yyz said:


> Why are places like Dollarama open? What on earth do they sell that is essential? Junk food? My dog chewed up 2 pairs of running shoes. I could really use a new pair, but i am wearing winter boots until the stores start opening again. I'm not even sure if I could find a decent pair of shoes right now.


Not too sure about Dollarama's in ont......Dollar Trees have even lower prices......but out here they sell things like TP, first aid supplies, brand name foods, soaps and cleaners and other brand name goods, at prices a lot less than the big box stores and when the big box stores were running out of things around here the Dollar stores still had them and with little or no crowding. Sure they also sell chips and chocolate bars and pop and things like that but so does Wally World and Safeways and all the other big box stores.


----------



## Guitar101

torndownunit said:


> I don't think that rate is 1% worldwide though. The average across countries is higher, or at least was.
> 
> COVID19info.live
> 
> Even the US is showing as 1.8% currently.
> 
> I think 1% is the best case scenario they are hoping for. But it goes back to the same issues, if the cases get too high and hospitals get swamped, that number is only going to get higher.


There testing a new Covid-19 test on Monday that supposedly gives the test results in 15 minutes (I hope I didn't dream that).


----------



## colchar

knight_yyz said:


> Why are places like Dollarama open? What on earth do they sell that is essential? Junk food?


They sell food and actually have a medical section so I guess that is their rationale. And for many poor people, that will be the only place at which they can afford some things.





> My dog chewed up 2 pairs of running shoes. I could really use a new pair, but i am wearing winter boots until the stores start opening again. I'm not even sure if I could find a decent pair of shoes right now.


Order online.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Electraglide

colchar said:


> What the hell was that from again?


----------



## colchar

knight_yyz said:


> I need to try on running shoes before buying.... wide feet and high arches.



Just buy the exact same ones that were chewed up.


----------



## Electraglide

allthumbs56 said:


> Good running shoes may become vital for social distancing


Boots and beans even more so. If I figure you're closer than 6' behind me and there is no reason for you to be that close, be warned.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

mhammer said:


> The mortality rate is going to vary with:
> a) the extent to which testing has been done, relative to the number of deaths reported
> b) the extent to which the nation's health-care system can tend to everyone who is currently sick whether with this virus or something else (wait, you mean people still also have cancer and heart disease? the _nerve_ of some people!)
> c) the rate of contagion spread as a function of national and regional response, population density, culture, etc.
> 
> My earlier calculated figure of 4.7% is based on the total number of formally diagnosed cases - which still leaves out a lot of people - and the number of recorded deaths attributed to the virus. Given that mortality is highest in those who have "underlying health conditions", I imagine in some instances (though not many) the virus made the underlying condition worse, so attribution of death to the virus *or *the existing condition is a judgment call.
> 
> The Worldometer stats, interestingly enough, also show number recovered. There is a fair degree of nation to nation variation in the number recovered, relative to the number of cases and number of deaths. One doesn't know what their criteria for "recovered" are, and certainly recovery itself takes time, as does the progress of any single infection case. So the numbers are obviously going to be subject to change. And likelihood of recovery, as always, is a function of how early something is diagnosed and treated. But that said, I expect the mortality *and* recovery rates are going to vary by nation as a function of their respective capacity to handle and treat cases. And if the ventilator and mask situation in the USA get ironed out, with a more effective distribution system, I imagine we'll see different mortality and recovery rates, state by state, as well. But as the guy says, "We'll see what happens".


The interesting number to watch from Worldmeter is the "concluded" cases stats. These are based solely on confirmed cases and the outcome of each. They can be viewed worldwide or fro each country. World wide that number has been growing over the weeks. When I first started following it they were at 6% death rate, it's now at 18% I believe. Italy was around 44% death rate. All the factors you listed will play into that number. So basically, if you get sick enough to be tested or end up in a hospital with a severe case, the odds are much worse.


----------



## knight_yyz

both pairs of shoes were over 5 years old. 1 pair was specifically for walking the dog, and the other for going to and from work etc. Both models are discontinued. I also suffer from plantar fasciitis so I really need to try on stuff before buying. I also wear orthotics.

I have a pair of "walking" shoes but they are the most uncomfortable things I have ever worn. I have no idea why I even bought them. Found them buried in closet. No support at all and a little too tight to tell the truth. I'm wearing hiking boots for now. It won't kill me. 

I may go to Sail on Monday after work, they have a sale on Merrell. I like them because you can put your orthotics in them.


----------



## Electraglide

Ship of fools said:


> No not sure what you watched on the news last night tomee 2 but the hospitals here in BC are doing okay accept for being short on supplies ( masks/gloves and facesheilds ). There have been bed movements to make space for any surge of patients and its the first time in many years where the emergency department has been steady and not over whelmed.
> And mostly folks are doing well with distancing them self's from each other in stores and streets so we are seeing a possible down turn of the curve, not a lot but a beginning and maybe a little lite at the end of the tunnel. So I'm hoping that the glass is more then half full.
> Its great to see how many people have signs in their windows saying I'm working from home to when I drive my wife to work and pick up my daughter at the same place ( they can't work from home hospital workers ) and it gets me out of the house for a bit so I don't go stir crazy..


The other day there was a small Thank You sign by the hospital by me. Today on my way to and from the lab the buses and C-trains were nearly empty. No sunday go to meeting people mostly. I was met at the door to the lab by someone in a coat and face mask who asked the normal questions then I had to use hand sanitizer before I went in. I was sent to a room, the tech came in, put on gloves and very deftly took 3 vials of blood. She was cute enough and good enough I didn't notice the first two. Said Thank You to everyone when I left and went to Wally World in search of a blood pressure measurer. The mall is more or less closed but wally world is well stocked and relatively busy. The instore blood pressure machine was shut down and the others are a bit more than what I want to pay.


----------



## Electraglide

Dorian2 said:


> There was a clip on the News in Edmonton that a number of Surgeons/Docs are trying to clear as many surgeries as possible before the shit hits the fan. Cancer, transplants, and I'd imagine general emergency surgeries from car accidents and such included. I know everyone is focused on the Virus, but the system has been overloaded for some time, even without the virus. Anyone who's gone for a blood test over the last couple of years can see what Healthcare is up against. @mhammer and others have touched on this already. I think we'll do fine if perspective and actions are kept in check. Flatten that curve.


Looks like they're looking to clear around 2,500 beds. I think they're talking about opening some of the closed wards around here.


----------



## Electraglide

colchar said:


> They sell food and actually have a medical section so I guess that is their rationale. And for many poor people, that will be the only place at which they can afford some things.


I figure what I've bought at Dollar Tree especially has saved me probably $60 to $70 over shopping at wally world.


----------



## Dorian2




----------



## keto

keto said:


> David Staples, Edmonton Journal reporter, is doing a great job following this story and advocating for our safety. This article does indeed have some political content mixed in with tons of other info, so if you are sensitive to criticism of the government please don't read it. This is basically a complete (I did not say comprehensive, I doubt that's possible) timeline of what we knew when, and Canada's response.
> The road to Canada's COVID-19 outbreak: timeline of federal government failure at border to slow the virus | Edmonton Journal


Posted part 2 & 3 in 'Political', but if you're interested just go to the Edmonton Journal website.


----------



## tomee2

colchar said:


> There are only 2363 dead right now. I cannot see it hitting 10,000 by Friday.


It was 1000 on Friday morning and 2000 by Sat night. 
Doubling every 2 days. 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000... is 6 days. Approximately, at current rates etc... 
It might flatten out in a few weeks.


----------



## mhammer

GuitarsCanada said:


> The interesting number to watch from Worldmeter is the "concluded" cases stats. These are based solely on confirmed cases and the outcome of each. They can be viewed worldwide or fro each country. World wide that number has been growing over the weeks. When I first started following it they were at 6% death rate, it's now at 18% I believe. Italy was around 44% death rate. All the factors you listed will play into that number. So basically, if you get sick enough to be tested or end up in a hospital with a severe case, the odds are much worse.


As provocative and compelling as that stat might be, the difficulty is that a case is "concluded" if a person dies or is _fully_ recovered and released, but is not "concluded" if they are getting better, but aren't well enough yet to send home and file under "concluded". So 18% also has the problem of being a potential overestimate. Not saying it is _way_ off, but it is a little blurry and fuzzy around the edges, for reasons that make computation difficult and imprecise.

Again, one has to consider that what the affected individual has to "come back from" depends on how early they were diagnosed, and how much capacity their health system has/ had to treat them at the time they were hospitalized.

One might just as well look a little over to the left at the classification of current active cases into "serious/critical" (5%) and "mild" (95%). That strikes us as a kind of underestimate, giving the reports of death rates we hear. The reality is somewhere between the worst and best-case estimates we glean.

The US should hit 2500 deaths somewhere later this evening. (Just under 2400 at the moment). In any given year, a lot more than that die from other things. In 2017, there were about 15,000 opioid overdose deaths in the USA, and a similar number of heroin overdose deaths. We're at the end of March now, so let's simply multiply the number of Covid-19 deaths so far this year by 4x, and that's "only" 10,000. One might turn and say,what's the big deal about the virus?

However, the first recorded death was March 1. By March 15, the number was 69, and now 2 weeks later, the number is almost 2500 (2391 as I write this). Okay, a little math if you will. 2391-69=2322 deaths in 2 weeks. Multiple by 26 (that many 2-week periods in a year) and we have just over 60,000 deaths, IF things continued at a steady rate for a whole year. But wait a sec. The number of deaths increased by 2391/69= 34.65 times _*in just two weeks*_.

These numbers are for just one country.

I shouldn't generate unnecessary or inaccurate alarm from those numbers, though. And my job experience has trained me not to be distracted by percentages and ratios, while ignoring actual headcounts. Canada has 63 reported deaths at the moment. In the same 2-weeks interval, we went from one death as of March 15 to 63 now, which is a 63-fold increase.

The bottom line is that the comparison to be made is NOT how many deaths resulted from mortality cause X and Y in any given year, but rather to pay attention to the rate of acceleration. That rate is difficult to pin down on a global scale. And as I keep blathering on about, also hard to pin down on a national scale because of variation in testing and treatment access. The key point is that it is an accelerating pandemic, not a steady-state one, and until it begins to decelerate, national and global strategies are called for, even though we can't pin precise numbers to stuff.


----------



## tomee2

Operations Dashboard for ArcGIS

The US is like 10 EU countries happening all at once.


----------



## Dorian2

Coronavirus In New York: A Nurse's Harrowing Photo Of Reality For COVID-19 Victims


----------



## colchar

tomee2 said:


> It was 1000 on Friday morning and 2000 by Sat night.
> Doubling every 2 days. 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000... is 6 days. Approximately, at current rates etc...
> It might flatten out in a few weeks.



I didn't realize it had doubled that quickly.

In Britain they are saying that the numbers (of infected, not dead) double every 3.5 days.


----------



## tomee2

mhammer said:


> As provocative and compelling as that stat might be, the difficulty is that a case is "concluded" if a person dies or is _fully_ recovered and released, but is not "concluded" if they are getting better, but aren't well enough yet to send home and file under "concluded". So 18% also has the problem of being a potential overestimate. Not saying it is _way_ off, but it is a little blurry and fuzzy around the edges, for reasons that make computation difficult and imprecise.
> 
> Again, one has to consider that what the affected individual has to "come back from" depends on how early they were diagnosed, and how much capacity their health system has/ had to treat them at the time they were hospitalized.
> 
> One might just as well look a little over to the left at the classification of current active cases into "serious/critical" (5%) and "mild" (95%). That strikes us as a kind of underestimate, giving the reports of death rates we hear. The reality is somewhere between the worst and best-case estimates we glean.
> 
> The US should hit 2500 deaths somewhere later this evening. (Just under 2400 at the moment). In any given year, a lot more than that die from other things. In 2017, there were about 15,000 opioid overdose deaths in the USA, and a similar number of heroin overdose deaths. We're at the end of March now, so let's simply multiply the number of Covid-19 deaths so far this year by 4x, and that's "only" 10,000. One might turn and say,what's the big deal about the virus?
> 
> However, the first recorded death was March 1. By March 15, the number was 69, and now 2 weeks later, the number is almost 2500 (2391 as I write this). Okay, a little math if you will. 2391-69=2322 deaths in 2 weeks. Multiple by 26 (that many 2-week periods in a year) and we have just over 60,000 deaths, IF things continued at a steady rate for a whole year. But wait a sec. The number of deaths increased by 2391/69= 34.65 times _*in just two weeks*_.
> 
> These numbers are for just one country.
> 
> I shouldn't generate unnecessary or inaccurate alarm from those numbers, though. And my job experience has trained me not to be distracted by percentages and ratios, while ignoring actual headcounts. Canada has 63 reported deaths at the moment. In the same 2-weeks interval, we went from one death as of March 15 to 63 now, which is a 63-fold increase.
> 
> The bottom line is that the comparison to be made is NOT how many deaths resulted from mortality cause X and Y in any given year, but rather to pay attention to the rate of acceleration. That rate is difficult to pin down on a global scale. And as I keep blathering on about, also hard to pin down on a national scale because of variation in testing and treatment access. The key point is that it is an accelerating pandemic, not a steady-state one, and until it begins to decelerate, national and global strategies are called for, even though we can't pin precise numbers to stuff.


Why apply linear math? Look at the rates on a log scale, factor of 10 increases in confirmed cases and deaths in a week to 10 days for nearly every country afflicted so far. 
The spread is initially exponential, the deaths that follow is initially exponential. Italy is just leveling off now, but at hundreds dead per day. The US is still accelerating.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

mhammer said:


> As provocative and compelling as that stat might be, the difficulty is that a case is "concluded" if a person dies or is _fully_ recovered and released, but is not "concluded" if they are getting better, but aren't well enough yet to send home and file under "concluded". So 18% also has the problem of being a potential overestimate. Not saying it is _way_ off, but it is a little blurry and fuzzy around the edges, for reasons that make computation difficult and imprecise.
> 
> Again, one has to consider that what the affected individual has to "come back from" depends on how early they were diagnosed, and how much capacity their health system has/ had to treat them at the time they were hospitalized.
> 
> One might just as well look a little over to the left at the classification of current active cases into "serious/critical" (5%) and "mild" (95%). That strikes us as a kind of underestimate, giving the reports of death rates we hear. The reality is somewhere between the worst and best-case estimates we glean.
> 
> The US should hit 2500 deaths somewhere later this evening. (Just under 2400 at the moment). In any given year, a lot more than that die from other things. In 2017, there were about 15,000 opioid overdose deaths in the USA, and a similar number of heroin overdose deaths. We're at the end of March now, so let's simply multiply the number of Covid-19 deaths so far this year by 4x, and that's "only" 10,000. One might turn and say,what's the big deal about the virus?
> 
> However, the first recorded death was March 1. By March 15, the number was 69, and now 2 weeks later, the number is almost 2500 (2391 as I write this). Okay, a little math if you will. 2391-69=2322 deaths in 2 weeks. Multiple by 26 (that many 2-week periods in a year) and we have just over 60,000 deaths, IF things continued at a steady rate for a whole year. But wait a sec. The number of deaths increased by 2391/69= 34.65 times _*in just two weeks*_.
> 
> These numbers are for just one country.
> 
> I shouldn't generate unnecessary or inaccurate alarm from those numbers, though. And my job experience has trained me not to be distracted by percentages and ratios, while ignoring actual headcounts. Canada has 63 reported deaths at the moment. In the same 2-weeks interval, we went from one death as of March 15 to 63 now, which is a 63-fold increase.
> 
> The bottom line is that the comparison to be made is NOT how many deaths resulted from mortality cause X and Y in any given year, but rather to pay attention to the rate of acceleration. That rate is difficult to pin down on a global scale. And as I keep blathering on about, also hard to pin down on a national scale because of variation in testing and treatment access. The key point is that it is an accelerating pandemic, not a steady-state one, and until it begins to decelerate, national and global strategies are called for, even though we can't pin precise numbers to stuff.


And this answers the question as to why just about every country on earth is taking unprecedented measures to control it. There are people running those numbers and advising governments. In the blame game nobody wants to be held accountable for not doing enough. At the same time it's scary enough that these measures should be taken. As you point out, and I agree 100%, there are just too many variables still at play to call it either way right now.


----------



## torndownunit

Guitar101 said:


> There testing a new Covid-19 test on Monday that supposedly gives the test results in 15 minutes (I hope I didn't dream that).


I can't keep up with all the testing news. My friend at the hospital here also mentioned a number they are setting for a tests per day goal to me, and it's super high. I don't want to quote the number because I can't remember if it was regional or provincial. But it was almost 4 times what they are currently doing.


----------



## torndownunit

GuitarsCanada said:


> And this answers the question as to why just about every country on earth is taking unprecedented measures to control it. There are people running those numbers and advising governments. In the blame game nobody wants to be held accountable for not doing enough. At the same time it's scary enough that these measures should be taken. As you point out, and I agree 100%, there are just too many variables still at play to call it either way right now.


I have mentioned it, and you and I have replied back and forth. But the other big variable is that I don't think we are being told a fraction of what's going on. My sister in law working at the hospital here as a respiratory therapist is so scared of this, that she won't even really talk to me about it other than to 'stay the hell inside'. Seeing how people reacted early on with the hoarding, I do see why they would be so cautious about what they released and what measures they took. But, they went TOO cautious to that point that people just didn't believe it was a problem. The initial word about isolating was worded more as a suggestion. Full travel quarantines and the limiting crowds to 5 should have been implemented weeks ago.


----------



## tomee2

Good explanation of social distancing and the effect on viral outbreaks.


----------



## Dorian2

torndownunit said:


> I have mentioned it, and you and I have replied back and forth. But the other big variable is that I don't think we are being told a fraction of what's going on. My sister in law working at the hospital here as a respiratory therapist is so scared of this, that she won't even really talk to me about it other than to 'stay the hell inside'. Seeing how people reacted early on with the hoarding, I do see why they would be so cautious about what they released and what measures they took. But, they went TOO cautious to that point that people just didn't believe it was a problem. The initial word about isolating was worded more as a suggestion. Full travel quarantines and the limiting crowds to 5 should have been implemented weeks ago.


Make sure you guys are keeping tabs on your sister man. PTSD is going to be a big issue when all is said and done on the front line.


----------



## mhammer

What tends to get lost in all of this exponential growth thing is that people don't just get infected and die, like someone turning into a "walker" 20 minutes after dying. Those deaths are from folks who were infected as much as a few weeks back, and got progressively worse ( Coronavirus Incubation Period (COVID-19) - Worldometer ). Some folks got sick sooner than others, but the progress of the virus is such that everyone who is going to get seriously or fatally ill is likely to do so within a few weeks of contracting it. So the increase in deaths we see now has some lag attached to it, but not infinite lag. There won't be anyone who contracts it and is la-de-da for 6 weeks or 3 months. 

If it was the case that _everyone_ was tested regularly - an obvious impossibility - we'd have a confident baseline that would permit assessment of any changes and growth in infection rate. But testing was prompted in response to the outbreak, and while increasing is not done in census fashion yet. And although I'm pleased there are faster cheaper tests in development and being tried out now, I remind folks that such fast tests look for antibodies, not the virus itself. Antibodies take a while to develop, so a person could be infected for a few weeks before their immune system shows signs of reacting to that infection. Those fast tests _will_ flag those who do have the virus, with few false positives. That's wonderful news. But they may also miss folks who are infected but not showing an immune response _yet_. As I learned during my doctoral training, cause of outcome can be easily confounded with time-of-measurement; i.e., what you think you see could be a product of when you looked for it. Is there some means for divvying the populace up into those whose immune systems are "fast responders" and "sluggish responders", such that we could be more confident about test results and triage people appropriately? I honestly don't know.


----------



## torndownunit

Dorian2 said:


> Make sure you guys are keeping tabs on your sister man. PTSD is going to be a big issue when all is said and done on the front line.


My brother is an IT admin at the same hospital, and they have also been deemed essential. It's even harder for him because he wasn't trained specifically to work in a hospital environment. They do have work on equipment etc. at times right in the thick of things. My sister-in-law at least has years of experience dealing with trauma. They have 2 kids though, and they are both stressed out as hell. Not to mention, while you see the outpouring of support in the news etc. to hospital workers, people will still be absolute assholes to the workers while they are actually at the hospital getting tested.


----------



## boyscout

mhammer said:


> One might turn and say,what's the big deal about the virus?
> 
> However, the first recorded death was March 1. By March 15, the number was 69, and now 2 weeks later, the number is almost 2500 (2391 as I write this). Okay, a little math if you will. 2391-69=2322 deaths in 2 weeks. Multiple by 26 (that many 2-week periods in a year) and we have just over 60,000 deaths, IF things continued at a steady rate for a whole year. But wait a sec. The number of deaths increased by 2391/69= 34.65 times _*in just two weeks*_.


That simple math doesn't account for the fact that the incidence of infection is ramping up rapidly - neither we or the U.S. have "flattened the curve." U.S. official Anthony Fauci has predicted that the U.S. could see 200,000 deaths.


----------



## boyscout

John Prine is in critical condition.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244374068226293761


----------



## Milkman

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?


----------



## mhammer

boyscout said:


> That simple math doesn't account for the fact that the incidence of infection is ramping up rapidly - neither we or the U.S. have "flattened the curve." U.S. official Anthony Fauci has predicted that the U.S. could see 200,000 deaths.


Right. The math IS simplistic. It's NOT a steady state that could result in a steady rate of 1600 deaths per week. Which is why so many underestimate what's taking place, or the risk entailed. That said, even IF it was steady state (which it isn't), that's still an awful lot of people.


----------



## laristotle

Milkman said:


> And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
> Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?


----------



## Electraglide

What next,








and 








?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
Yeats is good.


----------



## Sneaky

Don’t forget


----------



## Robert1950




----------



## laristotle




----------



## GuitarsCanada

torndownunit said:


> I have mentioned it, and you and I have replied back and forth. But the other big variable is that I don't think we are being told a fraction of what's going on. My sister in law working at the hospital here as a respiratory therapist is so scared of this, that she won't even really talk to me about it other than to 'stay the hell inside'. Seeing how people reacted early on with the hoarding, I do see why they would be so cautious about what they released and what measures they took. But, they went TOO cautious to that point that people just didn't believe it was a problem. The initial word about isolating was worded more as a suggestion. Full travel quarantines and the limiting crowds to 5 should have been implemented weeks ago.


Agreed 100%. My wife basically knows everyone in town through our business so many in the medical field plus her daughter was going through to be an RN and as far back as late January the word was leaking out. The Niagara Region has been trying everything they can to NOT tell people what the situation is.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Jim DaddyO

Time frame makes the maths difficult also. Because of the way testing is done and that the incubation period is 2 weeks or so before symptoms. Interesting read here.

When will Canada pass the peak of COVID-19? Even the experts don't know

_Because it is generally believed that the virus has an incubation period of up to two weeks, experts say it is only safe to assume that one day's case number represents the results of actions taken 14 or more days earlier._


----------



## colchar

One of my students has tested positive. Her mother also has it. I have no idea if she contracted it before the college shut down, or afterwards.


----------



## butterknucket




----------



## Robert1950

2020 will be completely cancelled


----------



## colchar

Robert1950 said:


> 2020 will be completely cancelled



It had a good six week run, what more do you want?


----------



## Eric Reesor

boyscout said:


> John Prine is in critical condition.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244374068226293761






His words helped me in hard times in my late teens. A breath of reality in a world gone mad with greed and avarice and no light for the future in sight.


----------



## bolero

saw this yesterday, it took them 2 months to figure out people with symptoms should not be allowed to fly, or take the train?

No more domestic travel by plane or train for those showing coronavirus symptoms, Trudeau says | CBC News

problem is: you can be asymptomatic for 14 days and still be contagious. 

everyone be safe out there


----------



## laristotle

LILLEY: Trudeau does to domestic flights what he refused to do to international ones


----------



## knight_yyz

I was walking the dog yesterday and saw a passenger plane fly over Hamilton. It was not headed toward Toronto. Couldn't help but wonder where it came from and where it was going.


----------



## mhammer

bolero said:


> saw this yesterday, it took them 2 months to figure out people with symptoms should not be allowed to fly, or take the train?
> 
> No more domestic travel by plane or train for those showing coronavirus symptoms, Trudeau says | CBC News
> 
> problem is: you can be asymptomatic for 14 days and still be contagious.
> 
> everyone be safe out there


True, but then, assuming some people have to get from A to B for whatever legitimate reasons, how does one differentiate?
Ideally, presence/absence of symptoms is one hoop to jump through, augmented by spacing and other preventative practices once on the train or plane. I'm assuming it's not "anything goes" once you board. There are limits to what can be done remotely, via the internet.

And just to be clear, the 14-day interval represents a minority of instances (still nothing to shrug off), with the average time between infection and becoming symptomatic around 4-6 days.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## ZeroGravity

mhammer said:


> True, but then, assuming some people have to get from A to B for whatever legitimate reasons, how does one differentiate?
> Ideally, presence/absence of symptoms is one hoop to jump through, augmented by spacing and other preventative practices once on the train or plane. I'm assuming it's not "anything goes" once you board. There are limits to what can be done remotely, via the internet.
> 
> And just to be clear, the 14-day interval represents a minority of instances (still nothing to shrug off), with the average time between infection and becoming symptomatic around 4-6 days.


It also depended heavily on people "doing the right thing" and it becomes a balancing act with limiting civil rights and freedoms. Unfortunately there are still too many that will do just about anything to knowingly get around restrictions, self-administered or not. I believe one of the first cases in France was someone who was symptomatic, knowingly took anti-fever medications to get around the checks at the time to fly.


----------



## Lola

John Prine singer, songwriter dies of COVID19.


----------



## allthumbs56

Lola said:


> John Prine singer, songwriter dies of COVID19.


Not yet, from what I can find anyway. Very, very ill though.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Trouble is brewing

Suspected, confirmed COVID-19 patients filling roughly 1 in 4 Ontario ICU beds | CBC News


----------



## Lola

allthumbs56 said:


> Not yet, from what I can find anyway. Very, very ill though.


He died early this morning.


----------



## Electraglide

knight_yyz said:


> I was walking the dog yesterday and saw a passenger plane fly over Hamilton. It was not headed toward Toronto. Couldn't help but wonder where it came from and where it was going.


I'm on the flight path south of the airport here. The planes still fly the same as always.


----------



## Lincoln

Electraglide said:


> I'm on the flight path south of the airport here. The planes still fly the same as always.


that's nuts. air travel is the first thing they should have stopped. totally & completely.


----------



## Milkman

Lincoln said:


> that's nuts. air travel is the first thing they should have stopped. totally & completely.



The skies above us here are notably and obviously empty.


----------



## vadsy

Lincoln said:


> that's nuts. air travel is the first thing they should have stopped. totally & completely.


Is it passengers? Or goods?


----------



## Electraglide

Lincoln said:


> that's nuts. air travel is the first thing they should have stopped. totally & completely.


I'd say that the Edmonton airport is still the same as always too. Probably some of those planes carry important freight like medical supplies and everyone's all important things shipped by places like Amazon. Things like this.
China donates medical supplies to Canada amid coronavirus pandemic, Embassy says
Possibly Canadian's who've been stuck somewhere too.


----------



## Lincoln

vadsy said:


> Is it passengers? Or goods?


Just passenger planes. Keep the goods flowing! (of course)


----------



## allthumbs56

We're still allowing international flights I believe. We're not exactly plugging all the holes in our boat.


----------



## Electraglide

From what


allthumbs56 said:


> We're still allowing international flights I believe. We're not exactly plugging all the holes in our boat.


 I hear, domestic flights too; if you don't display symptoms. Same with inter city trains tho I suppose there still are passenger trains.


----------



## torndownunit

mhammer said:


> True, but then, assuming some people have to get from A to B for whatever legitimate reasons, how does one differentiate?
> Ideally, presence/absence of symptoms is one hoop to jump through, augmented by spacing and other preventative practices once on the train or plane. I'm assuming it's not "anything goes" once you board. There are limits to what can be done remotely, via the internet.
> 
> And just to be clear, the 14-day interval represents a minority of instances (still nothing to shrug off), with the average time between infection and becoming symptomatic around 4-6 days.


One things for sure, it shouldn't be up to airport workers to decide who is possibly symptomatic. That's the main reason I think flights should be way more restricted.


----------



## Electraglide

torndownunit said:


> One things for sure, it shouldn't be up to airport workers to decide who is possibly symptomatic. That's the main reason I think flights should be way more restricted.


Maybe they should test your temperature this way.


----------



## boyscout

Lola said:


> John Prine singer, songwriter dies of COVID19.


Lola, like @allthumbs56 I'm not seeing that anywhere else except in a single tweet from a not-obviously-authoritative source.

I don't know that you're wrong, but are you positive you're right?


----------



## Electraglide

boyscout said:


> Lola, like @allthumbs56 I'm not seeing that anywhere else except in a single tweet from a not-obviously-authoritative source.
> 
> I don't know that you're wrong, but are you positive you're right?


Maybe it was Joe Diffie.
Country music's Joe Diffie dies from coronavirus, while fellow singer John Prine hospitalized with symptoms


----------



## knight_yyz

I was under the impression that International flights are only into and from 4 airports and domestic flights were squashed


----------



## mhammer

Lola said:


> He died early this morning.


Not seeing any news reports of it in the places one would expect to see it.


----------



## keto

WHO says early data shows some drugs 'may have an impact' on coronavirus, but more research is needed


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Alberta has essentially been wiped out.

Oil plummets to 17-year low as virus stokes supply glut fears - BNN Bloomberg


----------



## mhammer

We just returned from dropping off some masks at one of the Ottawa hospitals. Our older son had learned they had put out a call for donations, so he contacted them. "It's just 8 masks". "That's fine, we need all we can get." "They're N-95, but it's an open bag.". "Bring 'em in." So he/we did. They were VERY appreciative. I knew he had some face masks for when he's busy making sawdust in the garage, but didn't realize those were n-95 masks. In any event, good on him for being conscientious. At the same time, when a hospital is willing to take an open bag of masks from a civilian, that sorta says something about the need and state of things.


----------



## Electraglide

knight_yyz said:


> I was under the impression that International flights are only into and from 4 airports and domestic flights were squashed


Pearson, Trudeau, Vancouver and Calgary. They fly overhead every day. As far as domestic flights go, if you don't exhibit symptoms you're good to fly domestically.
Canada to stop people with COVID-19 symptoms boarding domestic flights, trains
If you're in Quebec you'd best be having your id ready and a damned good reason why you're where you are from the sounds of it.
Canada to stop people with COVID-19 symptoms boarding domestic flights, trains
Not too sure if buying poutine is a good reason.


----------



## allthumbs56

Electraglide said:


> Pearson, Trudeau, Vancouver and Calgary.


Phew! Glad it's restricted ............... to pretty much all of Canada


----------



## Electraglide

GuitarsCanada said:


> Alberta has essentially been wiped out.
> 
> Oil plummets to 17-year low as virus stokes supply glut fears - BNN Bloomberg


Prices have been low before.....they'll come back. They've done that before over the years. 2002 and 2014 for example. Might not be too good right now for people who's various funds are backed by oil stocks tho. Then again if you can hold on for a while it might be a good time to buy.....prices should be low.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Electraglide said:


> Prices have been low before.....they'll come back. They've done that before over the years. 2002 and 2014 for example. Might not be too good right now for people who's various funds are backed by oil stocks tho. Then again if you can hold on for a while it might be a good time to buy.....prices should be low.


WCS is trading at $4.18 a barrel bro. You have never seen that. Basically there is no money to be made. None.


----------



## Electraglide

allthumbs56 said:


> Phew! Glad it's restricted ............... to pretty much all of Canada


Well I guess they all could land at Pearson. Put them all in quarantine in CFB Borden for however many days. I wonder tho about "to pretty much all of Canada". Fair amount of space from sea to sea where they don't land.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Nearly half of Canadians on the brink of insolvency, survey finds - BNN Bloomberg

The shit show will be deep and decades long


----------



## Johnny Spune

GuitarsCanada said:


> WCS is trading at $4.18 a barrel bro. You have never seen that. Basically there is no money to be made. None.


There have been predictions oil will go negative. What that means is producers will have to pay people to take it because they can’t afford to store it or there is no storage. In the west there are also many layoffs in the potash industry. Along with everything else? In my opinion we are going to have to ease up on environmental concerns etc or go hungry or worse. Crime and suicides will rise regardless. Just to what scale.


----------



## knight_yyz

I'm starting to think people are doing math a different way. 7xxx cases in Canada. Double that for unreported. 15xxx /37.5 million means 4 tenths of a percent are infected.

And therefore I can go visit my neighbours and do whatever the eff I want...

100k cases out of 37.5 million is only about a quarter of 1 percent. . 266 to be exact.


----------



## colchar

knight_yyz said:


> Couldn't help but wonder where it came from


Hamilton airport.




> and where it was going.


Anywhere but fucking Hamilton.


----------



## colchar

Lincoln said:


> that's nuts. air travel is the first thing they should have stopped. totally & completely.



But that would have been both racist and ineffective. Until it wasn't, then it was OK.


----------



## Electraglide

GuitarsCanada said:


> WCS is trading at $4.18 a barrel bro. You have never seen that. Basically there is no money to be made. None.


It cost more to ship WCS than it's worth but they still have to ship it, true.....and I don't remember what the oil prices were in 2002 or 2014. I did work in the oil industry for 15 years....saw the results of 2002 and 2014. It goes down, it goes up.....follow the bouncing ball. From what's out there right now the biggest place to take a hit is the stock market. If you have stocks in say Vermilion Energy Inc., seems half your expected dividend is gone. If you're driving a druck of drill pipe or dodging a chain on the deck or turning a valve at a tank farm there's a good chance you're still working.....or perhaps on a plane back to St, Johns. And once they figure out how to deal with this virus you'll probably be coming back. 
Maybe these two guys will quit having a circle jerk and get thinks squared away with Opec which should bring the oil prices back up and help out the various share holders. One can hope.
Putin and Trump hold talks on coronavirus and plunging oil prices


----------



## colchar

knight_yyz said:


> I was under the impression that International flights are only into and from 4 airports and domestic flights were squashed



I thought we had closed our borders, and that domestic flights were allowed?


----------



## mhammer

GuitarsCanada said:


> WCS is trading at $4.18 a barrel bro. You have never seen that. Basically there is no money to be made. None.


I can't confirm it, but my son tells me that the additives required to make the oil usable cost more than $5 for a barrel's worth. When oil is selling for $50/barrel or more, that additional $5 is simply a production cost. At this point, it's not a production cost, but a liability.


----------



## keto

colchar said:


> I thought we had closed our borders, and that domestic flights were allowed?


At no point. Just all international have to come through the earlier referenced 4 airports. Domestic OK without symptoms, I guess mental illness isn't a symptom but you'd have to be crazy.


----------



## knight_yyz

What's crazy is you can hop off an international flight without being screened then jump on a domestic flight and still be contagious. Stupid


----------



## knight_yyz

colchar said:


> Hamilton airport.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anywhere but fucking Hamilton.


If anything it was going to Hamilton Airport.


----------



## keto

knight_yyz said:


> What's crazy is you can hop off an international flight without being screened then jump on a domestic flight and still be contagious. Stupid


If you got stuck in some shithole country after leaving Canada any time after about when this thread started, too fucking bad you get to sit it out there. I have no friggin sympathy whatsoever, regardless of circumstances.

Dammit, they still haven't made me king for a day yet. When does that come again?


----------



## Electraglide

GuitarsCanada said:


> Nearly half of Canadians on the brink of insolvency, survey finds - BNN Bloomberg
> 
> The shit show will be deep and decades long


Maybe there will l be another Bloody Sunday.


----------



## allthumbs56

I am somewhat encouraged by today's numbers. In Ontario they have cleared half of the outstanding tests since Saturday and quite a few more are recovered. The somewhat shocking stat to me is that 77% of the cases are between the ages of 20 and 64. Although I can't find a breakdown on deaths by age it would seem that those in the retirement homes are taking it on the chin.

https://www.ontario.ca/page/2019-novel-coronavirus#section-0

Magg's boss's stepdaughter has just tested positive. Maggs has had contact with her boss, who's husband saw his daughter about 10 days ago. We are doing our best to minimize contact but this virus is like a bad Clairol commercial.


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> I can't confirm it, but my son tells me that the additives required to make the oil usable cost more than $5 for a barrel's worth. When oil is selling for $50/barrel or more, that additional $5 is simply a production cost. At this point, it's not a production cost, but a liability.


Enbridge charges between $7 and $9 a barrel to ship oil to Texas. As far as I know the various companies make the dilutents that are mixed with the heavy crude and make it easier to ship. Not too sure of the cost. The $5 you talk about is at the refineries/plants at the far end of the pipe lines in say Texas or where ever Irving oil has their places in Canada. Canada (Alberta) also ships CLS oil that trades closer to WTI prices and doesn't need dilutents to pipe it.. They also ship sweet and sour oil which have different prices. Most WCS oil is piped out of Hardisty and CLS out of Edmonton. The price of oil per barrel has nothing to do with refining the oil to make it usable for say your car or truck or for the stuff refined here to make gas and diesel. Not too sure what's closed or not as far as the refineries and upgraders here go right now but the oil is still being drilled and pumped.


----------



## cdntac

knight_yyz said:


> I was walking the dog yesterday and saw a passenger plane fly over Hamilton. It was not headed toward Toronto. Couldn't help but wonder where it came from and where it was going.


Take a look at Flight Radar or Flught Tracker. Those websites will show you where the planes are going and where they came from. 

I don’t know why but find it kinda cool to look up at a plane, go online, and see that it’s travelled from (example) Tokyo and left yesterday at 4:00 pm and is heading to JFK.


----------



## Electraglide

keto said:


> If you got stuck in some shithole country after leaving Canada any time after about when this thread started, too fucking bad you get to sit it out there. I have no friggin sympathy whatsoever, regardless of circumstances.
> 
> Dammit, they still haven't made me king for a day yet. When does that come again?


How about the people who left the country before the virus was discovered? Not too sure when my brother'll get back and not too sure if places like Australia would appreciate being called a "shithole" country. BTW has the air improved in edmonchuk yet?


----------



## ZeroGravity

Electraglide said:


> Not too sure what's closed or not as far as the refineries and upgraders here go right now but the oil is still being drilled and pumped.


I didn't read the full article about WCS possibly going negative, but I believe the gist of was for the time being the overall cost of closing down production and restarting in the near future was more than the loss from the sales and transport. I didn't see where the threshold was in terms of price/cost and time though.


----------



## Electraglide

cdntac said:


> Take a look at Flight Radar or Flught Tracker. Those websites will show you where the planes are going and where they came from.
> 
> I don’t know why but find it kinda cool to look up at a plane, go online, and see that it’s travelled from (example) Tokyo and left yesterday at 4:00 pm and is heading to JFK.


Before the virus my son and I went to the flight museum at the south end of the airport. Kinda cool when the planes land and take off. I've done the same thing at Vancouver airport. Doing this is on my bucket list.




Just as long as you don't have to fly to get there. Looks like the arrivals and departures from Calgary are down a bit.
YYC > Traveller Info > Flight Information > Flight Schedule


----------



## Electraglide

ZeroGravity said:


> I didn't read the full article about WCS possibly going negative, but I believe the gist of was for the time being the overall cost of closing down production and restarting in the near future was more than the loss from the sales and transport. I didn't see where the threshold was in terms of price/cost and time though.


They also have contracts they have to fulfill so things keep on going. To shut down a turbine engine and then start it up again for maintenance used to take around a week so that part of production is stopped. Those things run hot. To some extent if things are shut down for too long the crude "sets up" which is very expensive to fix, especially if it causes a valve or two to screw up somewhere along the pipeline.


----------



## jb welder

Lola said:


> He died early this morning.


As of 2pm today he is on a ventilator but stable: Singer John Prine, fighting COVID-19, is in stable condition, his wife says



mhammer said:


> I can't confirm it, but my son tells me that the additives required to make the oil usable cost more than $5 for a barrel's worth.


What I read was that the diluent (so it will run through the pipe) costs $8 per barrel while the bitumen is worth $4 a barrel. That is harsh.


----------



## Milkman

jb welder said:


> As of 2pm today he is on a ventilator but stable: Singer John Prine, fighting COVID-19, is in stable condition, his wife says


Thanks very much for posting this update. I kept searching but found no record of him actually passing.

This is some hope at least.

One tough old guy.

Most recently, he was diagnosed with lung cancer in 2013 and had part of a lung removed.

The surgeries affected his voice but Prine continued to make music and to tour.

Before the onset of the virus, Prine had shows scheduled in May and a summer tour planned


----------



## tomee2

knight_yyz said:


> I'm starting to think people are doing math a different way. 7xxx cases in Canada. Double that for unreported. 15xxx /37.5 million means 4 tenths of a percent are infected.
> 
> And therefore I can go visit my neighbours and do whatever the eff I want...
> 
> 100k cases out of 37.5 million is only about a quarter of 1 percent. . 266 to be exact.


----------



## knight_yyz

cdntac said:


> Take a look at Flight Radar or Flught Tracker. Those websites will show you where the planes are going and where they came from.
> 
> I don’t know why but find it kinda cool to look up at a plane, go online, and see that it’s travelled from (example) Tokyo and left yesterday at 4:00 pm and is heading to JFK.


I used to go to the train tracks and watch trains wizz by. And the airport for the planes as well. Especially Pearson. There are a few spots if you k ow the area well where the planes seem like 10 feet away. As to tracking them, I tend not to bring my cell with me. Just can't be bothered.


----------



## Guitar101

mhammer said:


> We just returned from dropping off some masks at one of the Ottawa hospitals. Our older son had learned they had put out a call for donations, so he contacted them. "It's just 8 masks". "That's fine, we need all we can get." "They're N-95, but it's an open bag.". "Bring 'em in." So he/we did. They were VERY appreciative. I knew he had some face masks for when he's busy making sawdust in the garage, but didn't realize those were n-95 masks. In any event, good on him for being conscientious. At the same time, when a hospital is willing to take an open bag of masks from a civilian, that sorta says something about the need and state of things.


Your post reminded me to check to see if I have any extra N95 masks that I could donate also. I bought mine for dust control down at the barn. I checked and found an unopened box of 20 that I will drop off at the hospital on Wed after my Life Labs appt. You should proud of your son for taking the initiative for doing what he did. Please thank him for me.


----------



## Distortion

Bad day in Ontario . 10 people lost the battle.


----------



## mhammer

Guitar101 said:


> Your post reminded me to check to see if I have any extra N95 masks that I could donate also. I bought mine for dust control down at the barn. I checked and found an unopened box of 20 that I will drop off at the hospital on Wed after my Life Labs appt. You should proud of your son for taking the initiative for doing what he did. Please thank him for me.


And thank _you_, as well.
My son - who is now in the garage making noise and dust - says thanks, and notes that in fact _he _was prompted to donate the masks by something he saw on a forum as well, that made him think "Hey, I've got some of those sitting around too!".


----------



## knight_yyz

Distortion said:


> Bad day in Ontario . 10 people lost the battle.


All in the same old age home in Bob Cayjun There will be a few more from that place by the looks of it.


----------



## vadsy

I found some P100 masks but I want some of those cool square looking surgery masks.


----------



## colchar

knight_yyz said:


> I used to go to the train tracks and watch trains wizz by. And the airport for the planes as well. Especially Pearson. There are a few spots if you k ow the area well where the planes seem like 10 feet away. As to tracking them, I tend not to bring my cell with me. Just can't be bothered.



There is a perfect spot on Dixie Rd. just south of Derry. It was great doing that in a car with a sunroof.


----------



## knight_yyz

I know exactly where you are thinking. But there's a better spot. Closer to where 427 and Dixon road meet. There are a few side streets in there which brings you much closer to the terminals and runways


----------



## silvertonebetty

Anyone else enjoying the break from the real world 

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk


----------



## mturk

Here’s an article worth reading in my opinion:

Marc Wathelet, a virologist and specialist in coronaviruses and respiratory diseases explains why Asia was successful in containing Covid-19 and why the West is not. - PaulCraigRoberts.org


----------



## Lola

silvertonebetty said:


> Anyone else enjoying the break from the real world
> 
> Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk


It was great the first week. I honestly miss going to work. I am afraid I am getting a little lazy depending on your perspective of what constitutes “lazy”.


----------



## keto

mturk said:


> Here’s an article worth reading in my opinion:
> 
> Marc Wathelet, a virologist and specialist in coronaviruses and respiratory diseases explains why Asia was successful in containing Covid-19 and why the West is not. - PaulCraigRoberts.org


"Let’s remember the difference between isolation (or surgical) masks and the famous N95/FFP2 masks. The first wave in Wuhan the medical staff was short of FFP2, all the photos show them with surgical masks; result: 3,000 infected medical staff. The Chinese government sends reinforcements, 42,000 medical personnel equipped with FFP2; result: zero infection out of 42,000!"

I have so many questions about why masks aren't recommended. This doc is a big advocate. Not just for medical staff,


----------



## zontar

silvertonebetty said:


> Anyone else enjoying the break from the real world
> 
> Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk


Still working, but there is a good side, but that will wear off soon.

Plus I was out yesterday, my parents got back last week from the US so they're self isolating & took them some groceries.


----------



## silvertonebetty

zontar said:


> Still working, but there is a good side, but that will wear off soon.
> 
> Plus I was out yesterday, my parents got back last week from the US so they're self isolating & took them some groceries.


My friend was in eather Alberta or bc. And hes sick now. Its been about two weeks since he got back. Hopefully it's not the Corona. And I hope your parents don't get ill. Being sick is no fun 

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jim DaddyO

You'll have to make up your own mind on this one. Can what China is saying be trusted?


----------



## Dorian2

Jim DaddyO said:


> You'll have to make up your own mind on this one. Can what China is saying be trusted?


I saw that on a Taiwanese broadcast a few days ago as well. I don't believe a word that regime in China is saying.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Dorian2 said:


> I don't believe a word that regime in China is saying.


Interesting news channel. Seems better than the corporate news doled out over here.


----------



## 10409




----------



## bigboki

mturk said:


> Here’s an article worth reading in my opinion:
> 
> Marc Wathelet, a virologist and specialist in coronaviruses and respiratory diseases explains why Asia was successful in containing Covid-19 and why the West is not. - PaulCraigRoberts.org


this is for me without any doubt the best article I have read (and believe me I read a lot) so far
thank you very much for sharing


----------



## Electraglide

Just for shits and laughs I tried one of the masks the landlord dropped of here. Looks something like this.








It was -10 or so and snowing when I went out and the masked lasted about 2 blocks before it started to freeze up. By the time I'd gotten about 4 blocks it was getting hard to breath and the air I exhaled was fogging up my glasses so I took it off. Having copd and having my nose broken 4 times I breath mostly thru my mouth. Masks don't help.


----------



## bolero

mturk said:


> Here’s an article worth reading in my opinion:
> 
> Marc Wathelet, a virologist and specialist in coronaviruses and respiratory diseases explains why Asia was successful in containing Covid-19 and why the West is not. - PaulCraigRoberts.org


 on top of the clear need for masks for everyone, two other key points I saw:

"First of all, in practice the 1.5 meters are not respected"
"Then and above all, a virus that is transmitted by aerosol respects no distance."

I had to get groceries today, and it was like a video game trying to avoid people who would walk up right behind me, or stand beside me. 
So people don't seem to grasp the importance of distance

his last line worries me: inside any building, the air is mostly circulated internally. how long does an aerosol linger in the air, and how far can it travel?

I'm not as anxious when I am outside ( apparently UV kills the virus? ) but lots of people need to buy supplies, and most of them are not wearing masks


----------



## bolero

mike_oxbig said:


>



initially I thought this was a humour post. But consider all the people living in countries where they need to improvise, with whatever they can find?


----------



## Jim DaddyO

bolero said:


> I had to get groceries today,


We had to go today too. Not many in the store and everyone kept their distance.....except one........but after a few minutes of getting some pretty harsh glares from people as she was flitting around, I think she got the hint. No bleach or TP in our store today.


----------



## Electraglide

bolero said:


> on top of the clear need for masks for everyone, two other key points I saw:
> 
> "First of all, in practice the 1.5 meters are not respected"
> "Then and above all, a virus that is transmitted by aerosol respects no distance."
> 
> I had to get groceries today, and it was like a video game trying to avoid people who would walk up right behind me, or stand beside me.
> So people don't seem to grasp the importance of distance
> 
> his last line worries me: inside any building, the air is mostly circulated internally. how long does an aerosol linger in the air, and how far can it travel?
> 
> I'm not as anxious when I am outside ( apparently UV kills the virus? ) but lots of people need to buy supplies, and most of them are not wearing masks


I would think twice about the UV killing the virus thing. Apparently it might kill the virus but the type of UV rays that do that are not good for the human body. At least the stuff from the sun and available lights right now. 
Can you kill coronavirus with UV light?


----------



## Electraglide

Jim DaddyO said:


> We had to go today too. Not many in the store and everyone kept their distance.....except one........but after a few minutes of getting some pretty harsh glares from people as she was flitting around, I think she got the hint. No bleach or TP in our store today.


There seems to be a lot of everything in the stores here.....except a reasonably priced blood pressure monitor. The only glares I've been seeing is when someone gets into the express line with a loaded shopping cart.


----------



## keto

bolero said:


> on top of the clear need for masks for everyone, two other key points I saw:
> 
> "First of all, in practice the 1.5 meters are not respected"
> "Then and above all, a virus that is transmitted by aerosol respects no distance."
> 
> I had to get groceries today, and it was like a video game trying to avoid people who would walk up right behind me, or stand beside me.
> So people don't seem to grasp the importance of distance
> 
> his last line worries me: inside any building, the air is mostly circulated internally. how long does an aerosol linger in the air, and how far can it travel?
> 
> I'm not as anxious when I am outside ( apparently UV kills the virus? ) but lots of people need to buy supplies, and most of them are not wearing masks


Our government has repeatedly told us to NOT wear masks.

I get the aspect of supply. But fuck right off, do not pass go, telling me it won’t help. That article put me over the top, no more out in public without one. I also cover my eyes, up to this point at least with my shades, but going forward at least wrap around safety glasses if not outright goggles.


----------



## mhammer

Masks are starting to become like power supplies for Boss pedals. You don't _have_ to use them, but Boss doesn't want to have to explain what sort of supply you need and what to look for, nor do they want the burden of repairs or internet rumours about bad pedals because someone didn't understand how to power properly. So, they simplify the task by insisting on their wallwarts.

There is much that a face mask can do that is helpful. But it depends on what type of mask, how you use it, the circumstances in which it is used, what else you are doing in tandem, and any counterproductive habits people engage in because they think a mask of some sort is a magic panacea. All those qualifications are above the capacity of some officials to convey clearly, and beyond the capacity of some citizens to either understand or balance off.

So the emphasis on 1.5-2 metre spacing is the easiest thing to spotlight. But do make sure that if you're rifling through the bags of clementines on sale for a bag that doesn't have any duds in it that you keep your droplets to yourself.


----------



## Milkman

This thread was helpful at first. Now most of what I'm reading here is angry.

I don't have time for angry.

I'm not interested in blame right now.


----------



## allthumbs56

Milkman said:


> This thread was helpful at first. Now most of what I'm reading here is angry.
> 
> I don't have time for angry.
> 
> I'm not interested in blame right now.


It's an emotional time.


----------



## bolero

hopefully when this thing is over, we can sit down and figure out how to prepare & respond better, next time

meanwhile all we can do is react, and share information

as far as being transmitted in the air vs sneezing etc. these people say they maintained space and washed their hands 

A choir decided to go ahead with rehearsal. Now dozens of members have COVID-19 and two are dead

mind you, singing in a choir expels air pretty forcefully. But still, breathing air with someone else in an enclosed space appears to be an obvious hazard


----------



## Milkman

allthumbs56 said:


> It's an emotional time.



Yes and we're all scared, but anger and animosity doesn't provide any comfort or help for me.

I think it might be better for us to remember that we're all in this together. We can find all the other crap elsewhere.

But that's just my opinion. I suppose venting and assigning blame is helpful to some.


----------



## Ship of fools

Agreed milkman to much anger out there. I get it folks are scared by what they do not know and its kind of scary thinking that we maybe just like our grand parents were during the great depression. But do your part and keep a distance and we shall over come this to and maybe even come out stronger for it.
As for masks well do what you need to comfort yourself but as a ex hospital worker I am telling you straight up that you are putting yourself at a greater risk. Just watch folks for several minutes and you will see that they rub their face and eyes even more often which is how the virus is being introduced to your body. So wearing one is not going to stop the bug.
People just need to take this a lot more serious read yesterday some small town ( 1000 folks ) in Alberta had a person come into their city hall to discuss his water bill even though he was suppose to be isolated for 14 days thus exposing others to a potential outbreak and they have only one store of each. Yet his stupid water bill was more important then his neighbours ( what a asshole ).


----------



## bolero

Milkman said:


> Yes and we're all scared, but anger and animosity doesn't provide any comfort or help for me.
> 
> I think it might be better for us to remember that we're all in this together. We can find all the other crap elsewhere.
> 
> But that's just my opinion. I suppose venting and assigning blame is helpful to some.


 well, I am angry. the people I trust to be in charge of public health, have failed us IMO

it is good to have a place to vent and talk about it, with others

something else from that article:

" The outbreak has stunned county health officials, who have concluded that the virus was almost certainly transmitted through the air from one or more people without symptoms.

In interviews with the Los Angeles Times, eight people who were at the rehearsal said that nobody there was coughing or sneezing or appeared ill."


----------



## Milkman

bolero said:


> well, I am angry. the people I trust to be in charge of public health, have failed us IMO
> 
> it is good to have a place to vent and talk about it, with others
> 
> something else from that article:
> 
> " The outbreak has stunned county health officials, who have concluded that the virus was almost certainly transmitted through the air from one or more people without symptoms.
> 
> In interviews with the Los Angeles Times, eight people who were at the rehearsal said that nobody there was coughing or sneezing or appeared ill."



Do you enjoy it when you're in a room chatting with people and one or two guys go on an angry rant? Is that helpful to you?

When this shit started going down I took it quite seriously. To the best of my knowledge nobody in government or in our healthcare system has failed me at all so far.

Sorry if you aren't having the same conditions. Many are certainly worse off than I am right now, but to be honest, as I said, getting pissed off isn't helpful to me.

YMMV.


----------



## Lola

Could I donate dust masks? Those made specifically for woodworking. They are really thick and we have a box of them. 40 to be exact.


----------



## torndownunit

bolero said:


> well, I am angry. the people I trust to be in charge of public health, have failed us IMO
> 
> it is good to have a place to vent and talk about it, with others
> 
> something else from that article:
> 
> " The outbreak has stunned county health officials, who have concluded that the virus was almost certainly transmitted through the air from one or more people without symptoms.
> 
> In interviews with the Los Angeles Times, eight people who were at the rehearsal said that nobody there was coughing or sneezing or appeared ill."


Much earlier in the thread there is a clip of a video of Dr. Michael Osterholm . He was on the front line of SARS and wrote a book just after that which pretty much predicted when and where a pandemic outbreak would originate and what would happen almost perfectly. That was about 6 years ago. The experts weren't shocked about this all happening at all and have been telling governments to prepare for years.


----------



## bolero

Milkman said:


> Do you enjoy it when you're in a room chatting with people and one or two guys go on an angry rant? Is that helpful to you?
> 
> When this shit started going down I took it quite seriously. To the best of my knowledge nobody in government or in our healthcare system has failed me at all so far.
> 
> Sorry if you aren't having the same conditions. Many are certainly worse off than I am right now, but to be honest, as I said, getting pissed off isn't helpful to me.
> 
> YMMV.


well, good for you

I am not seeing any crazy rants here. I see people responding to a situation.

people are dying, and people we all know will probably die before this is over

to be honest, this thread is tamer than a lot of gear related threads I have seen!


----------



## Milkman

bolero said:


> well, good for you
> 
> I am not seeing any crazy rants here. I see people responding to a situation.
> 
> people are dying, and people we all know will probably die before this is all over
> 
> to be honest, this thread is tamer than a lot of gear related threads I have seen!


This clearly isn't a gear related situation.

And I said angry, not crazy. The two are often intertwined but....

Anyway, no problem, I've said my piece. I can just step out of the conversation and get my interaction on this subject somewhere else.

Sorry to impede anyone's anger.

Carry on.


----------



## Lola

Some ppl are becoming so obsessive with this and I while agree with some of the issues but for the most part that anger is so bad for you and me. This is going to play out as it’s going to play out.


Do something that you love to do when angry thoughts come to mind. Focus on you in these times of strife. Do what you can for YOU. You have really no control over anything else.

I can’t watch the news anymore. I am so over this.


----------



## boyscout

keto said:


> I have so many questions about why masks aren't recommended.


Here are my own thoughts. I am no more an expert in these things than you are.

My intended first point in response is already discussed later in the thread, but to reinforce: if supply wasn't an issue masks would be more often recommended. Supply has been and still is a very serious issue. However as the first signs of easing in the supply problem have just begun to appear, so have the first signs of changing messaging from some officials. 

I hope they don't go too far. There's no question that the front-line people need them most - they must have them or the problems including too-little-testing and the death toll will get ever so much much worse. Therefore constraining public demand for them while front-line workers are under-supplied is a good thing; sorry that offends you.

However some of the arguments for not vigorously promoting their use to the general public remain even if supply becomes sufficient to meet the resulting demand.

There's no argument at all against sick people wearing them to help protect others from them. However there are strong arguments against them using the masks as a get-out-of-jail-free card to go out in public, and there's little doubt that lots of them would. It is now proven that this virus can survive on their clothing, on their vehicle parts, on shopping carts, on most things they touch for a day or days, even weeks on some surfaces in the right conditions.

The mask on a sick person does just one thing: prevent much - but not all - of what they might expel from their mouth in a cough or sneeze from becoming an aerosol cloud settling on the rest of their person and the surfaces and maybe people around them. It reduces risk to others but doesn't eliminate it, yet there will be too many sick people thinking it makes them safe to others. Each one of those people - including many who don't yet know that they are sick - who slaps on a mask and thinks they've met their social obligations could infect a dozen, which becomes dozens, which becomes hundreds, which becomes...

Pretty good arguments remain against healthy people wearing them when there is any kind of supply strain. A healthy person wearing one is only partially protected and only protected against the aforementioned aerosol cloud, a cloud they won't be in if they are rigorous about the two-meter rule. If a sick person does share their cloud with a healthy person, the healthy person's act of removing their mask later is a risky operation, higher risk than just washing their face thoroughly. As I've seen you note later in the thread, the mask is just part of the most basic PPE - goggles and / or face shields and gloves are all important too, yet so many will slap on a mask and believe that they're protected, will let their guard down. Each one who does remains at risk of infection, and the potential to infect multiple people.

The fastest way to beat this problem is for people to protect to the maximum possible, and the best way to do that is to just stay at home. Anything that eases people's concern about going out in public - including promoting the use of masks as protection against the virus - is going to prolong the problem and increase the severity of its impact on all of us.


----------



## allthumbs56

Milkman said:


> Do you enjoy it when you're in a room chatting with people and one or two guys go on an angry rant? Is that helpful to you?
> 
> When this shit started going down I took it quite seriously. To the best of my knowledge nobody in government or in our healthcare system has failed me at all so far.
> 
> Sorry if you aren't having the same conditions. Many are certainly worse off than I am right now, but to be honest, as I said, getting pissed off isn't helpful to me.
> 
> YMMV.


You're fortunate and I hope it doesn't come closer to you. In the past 2 days it's got a lot closer to me and people I care about are affected. Being angry isn't gonna help that but I feel this is happening because people we trust have and are dropping the ball. I will, as always, keep my own anger (such as it is) in the Political Forum.


----------



## bolero

Milkman said:


> This clearly isn't a gear related situation.
> 
> And I said angry, not crazy. The two are often intertwined but....
> 
> Anyway, no problem, I've said my piece. I can just step out of the conversation and get my interaction on this subject somewhere else.
> 
> Sorry to impede anyone's anger.
> 
> Carry on.


no worries, I wish you the best


----------



## Jim DaddyO

boyscout said:


> Here are my own thoughts. I am no more an expert in these things than you are.
> 
> My intended first point in response is already discussed later in the thread, but to reinforce: if supply wasn't an issue masks would be more often recommended. Supply has been and still is a very serious issue. However as the first signs of easing in the supply problem have just begun to appear, so have the first signs of changing messaging from some officials.
> 
> I hope they don't go too far. There's no question that the front-line people need them most - they must have them or the problems including too-little-testing and the death toll will get ever so much much worse. Therefore constraining public demand for them while front-line workers are under-supplied is a good thing; sorry that offends you.
> 
> However some of the arguments for not vigorously promoting their use to the general public remain even if supply becomes sufficient to meet the resulting demand.
> 
> There's no argument at all against sick people wearing them to help protect others from them. However there are strong arguments against them using the masks as a get-out-of-jail-free card to go out in public, and there's little doubt that lots of them would. It is now proven that this virus can survive on their clothing, on their vehicle parts, on shopping carts, on most things they touch for a day or days, even weeks on some surfaces in the right conditions.
> 
> The mask on a sick person does just one thing: prevent much - but not all - of what they might expel from their mouth in a cough or sneeze from becoming an aerosol cloud settling on the rest of their person and the surfaces and maybe people around them. It reduces risk to others but doesn't eliminate it, yet there will be too many sick people thinking it makes them safe to others. Each one of those people - including many who don't yet know that they are sick - who slaps on a mask and thinks they've met their social obligations could infect a dozen, which becomes dozens, which becomes hundreds, which becomes...
> 
> Pretty good arguments remain against healthy people wearing them when there is any kind of supply strain. A healthy person wearing one is only partially protected and only protected against the aforementioned aerosol cloud, a cloud they won't be in if they are rigorous about the two-meter rule. If a sick person does share their cloud with a healthy person, the healthy person's act of removing their mask later is a risky operation, higher risk than just washing their face thoroughly. As I've seen you note later in the thread, the mask is just part of the most basic PPE - goggles and / or face shields and gloves are all important too, yet so many will slap on a mask and believe that they're protected, will let their guard down. Each one who does remains at risk of infection, and the potential to infect multiple people.
> 
> The fastest way to beat this problem is for people to protect to the maximum possible, and the best way to do that is to just stay at home. Anything that eases people's concern about going out in public - including promoting the use of masks as protection against the virus - is going to prolong the problem and increase the severity of its impact on all of us.


I whole heartedly agree with this. Good post!

Is @boyscout and I agreeing on topics one of the signs of the end times?....lol


----------



## Milkman

bolero said:


> no worries, I wish you the best


And I you.

My post wasn't intended to call anyone out.


----------



## boyscout

Jim DaddyO said:


> I whole heartedly agree with this. Good post! Is @boyscout and I agreeing on topics one of the signs of the end times?....lol


I'm going to have to review that post; must have gone off the rails somewhere.


----------



## Milkman

allthumbs56 said:


> You're fortunate and I hope it doesn't come closer to you. In the past 2 days it's got a lot closer to me and people I care about are affected. Being angry isn't gonna help that but I feel this is happening because people we trust have and are dropping the ball. I will, as always, keep my own anger (such as it is) in the Political Forum.



Closer than my kid brother AND my son already infected? That's bloody close enough.

And yes, people have a right to feel however they feel.


----------



## torndownunit

Lola said:


> Some ppl are becoming so obsessive with this and I while agree with some of the issues but for the most part that anger is so bad for you and me. This is going to play out as it’s going to play out.
> 
> 
> Do something that you love to do when angry thoughts come to mind. Focus on you in these times of strife. Do what you can for YOU. You have really no control over anything else.
> 
> I can’t watch the news anymore. I am so over this.


While I agree with looking after yourself, I don't agree that people shouldn't have some anger. Especially younger people who will have to deal with scenarios like this down the road. The anger can help bring about some change, which is drastically needed. 

I think I post a lot of positive stuff on this forum, and people who have met me or even PM'd with me know I am a helpful positive person. I use that to get through isolation. But, at 43 years old I will likely have to deal with another pandemic like this in my lifetime. So ya, I do have anger about how this has played out. Every expert said how serious this was and what measure to take, and the government took way too slow of an approach dealing with it. I will have some anger over that, and want that to change. I consider that kind of anger a productive anger personally.


----------



## Milkman

torndownunit said:


> While I agree with looking after yourself, I don't agree that people shouldn't have some anger. Especially younger people who will have to deal with scenarios like this down the road. The anger can help bring about some change, which is drastically needed.
> 
> I think I post a lot of positive stuff on this forum, and people who have met me your even PM's with me know I am a helpful positive person. I use that to get through isolation. But, at 43 years old I will likely have to deal with another pandemic like this in my lifetime. So ya, I do have anger about how this has played out. Every expert said how serious this was and what measure to take, and the government took way too slow of an approach dealing with it. I will have some anger over that, and want that to change. I consider that kind of anger a productive anger personally.



Yes and I think we all do, but being angry NOW is, in my opinion counterproductive. I prefer to focus on solving the problem first and then learning lessons and avoiding future similar problems later. If you work in industry you know that as a standard part of APQP, PFMEA, DFMEA, and most root cause analysis and countermeasure systems.


----------



## JazzyT

Las Vegas:


----------



## vadsy

Milkman said:


> ....If you work in industry you know that as a standard part of APQP, PFMEA, DFMEA, and most root cause analysis and countermeasure systems.


are you by chance working from home in the middle of all of this?


----------



## Dorian2

Take care people.

That's all


----------



## Milkman

vadsy said:


> are you by chance working from home in the middle of all of this?


Yes, since March 16 and for the foreseeable future.


----------



## High/Deaf

If people think comments in this thread are 'anger', they should probably just turn off all of their electronics - for the next 6 months. This is going to get a lot worse and last a lot longer than some people want to comprehend. If this is 'angry', your gonna hate social media for the rest of 2020. Just walk away.

I get that some people have less sensitivity to this, but reality is a bitch. We can recognize what our politicians and health officials have done some things wrong and learn from it and correct it while it may be helpful, or we can bury our heads in the sand and sing Kumbaya while expecting everyone else to do the heavy lifting. I think we all have some responsibility in the solution (part of which is being and staying informed) but I see more and more people, all the time, that don't want to do the hard things now to make things better later. Delayed gratification is a thing of the past. "Two more weeks of self-isolation? I'm so over this. I'm going back to my fun life."


----------



## Milkman

High/Deaf said:


> If people think comments in this thread are 'anger', they should probably just turn off all of their electronics - for the next 6 months. This is going to get a lot worse and last a lot longer than some people want to comprehend. If this is 'angry', your gonna hate social media for the rest of 2020. Just walk away.
> 
> I get that some people have less sensitivity to this, but reality is a bitch. We can recognize what our politicians and health officials have done some things wrong and learn from it and correct it while it may be helpful, or we can bury our heads in the sand and sing Kumbaya while expecting everyone else to do the heavy lifting. I think we all have some responsibility in the solution (part of which is being and staying informed) but I see more and more people, all the time, that don't want to do the hard things now to make things better later. Delayed gratification is a thing of the past. "Two more weeks of self-isolation? I'm so over this. I'm going back to my fun life."


LOL yeah because if we're not freaking out, we MUST be sticking our heads in the sand right?

Please.

Trust me, we're taking this seriously and doing whatever we can to survive it. THAT's my focus. No kumbaya here, LMAO.


----------



## guitarman2

High/Deaf said:


> If people think comments in this thread are 'anger', they should probably just turn off all of their electronics - for the next 6 months. This is going to get a lot worse and last a lot longer than some people want to comprehend. If this is 'angry', your gonna hate social media for the rest of 2020. Just walk away.
> 
> I get that some people have less sensitivity to this, but reality is a bitch. We can recognize what our politicians and health officials have done some things wrong and learn from it and correct it while it may be helpful, or we can bury our heads in the sand and sing Kumbaya while expecting everyone else to do the heavy lifting. I think we all have some responsibility in the solution (part of which is being and staying informed) but I see more and more people, all the time, that don't want to do the hard things now to make things better later. Delayed gratification is a thing of the past. "Two more weeks of self-isolation? I'm so over this. I'm going back to my fun life."


I think I can take 6 months to a year of this. After that there won't be another thing to fix, room to paint or a renovation left to do in my house.


----------



## Distortion

Experts know the new coronavirus is not a bioweapon. They disagree on whether it could have leaked from a research lab - Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists This is food for thought might even be close to the truth but you got to read it all before commenting.


----------



## High/Deaf

guitarman2 said:


> I think I can take 6 months to a year of this. After that there won't be another thing to fix, room to paint or a renovation left to do in my house.


As I said when I retired (and people asked if I'd get bored): "I hope I get bored enough to clean my fucking house." I'm getting close, but it hasn't happened yet.


----------



## Milkman

High/Deaf said:


> As I said when I retired (and people asked if I'd get bored): "I hope I get bored enough to clean my fucking house." I'm getting close, but it hasn't happened yet.


Well my wife is self employed. She does residential house cleaning (sort of an independent Molly Maid business) so we're completely without that secondary income. She's staying home but no income. That means while I'm working in my home office, she's doing those cleaning projects around the house and yard work.

It's working ok so far, but I can definitely feel the stress.


----------



## High/Deaf

Milkman said:


> LOL yeah because if we're not freaking out, we MUST be sticking our heads in the sand right?
> 
> Please.
> 
> Trust me, we're taking this seriously and doing whatever we can to survive it. THAT's my focus. No kumbaya here, LMAO.


I don't see anyone 'freaking out' in this thread. I've seen people freaking out in reality, though.

If a bit of critique = freaking out, then perhaps this isn't the best activity for some people going forward. It's gonna happen and you can't stop it. 

I wouldn't touch Facebook with a 10 m pole right now, because it is 'freaking out' and for the most part spreading fake news. What I've read in this thread, while mildly wandering near misinformation, is 1000X more real (with clips from real news sources) than all that social media drivel will provide, IME. But we all have our own level of tolerance.


----------



## Milkman

High/Deaf said:


> I don't see anyone 'freaking out' in this thread. I've seen people freaking out in reality, though.
> 
> If a bit of critique = freaking out, then perhaps this isn't the best activity for some people going forward. It's gonna happen and you can't stop it.
> 
> I wouldn't touch Facebook with a 10 m pole right now, because it is 'freaking out' and for the most part spreading fake news. What I've read in this thread, while mildly wandering near misinformation, is 1000X more real (with clips from real news sources) than all that social media drivel will provide, IME. But we all have our own level of tolerance.


I used the same level of hyperbole as you I guess. Just because I choose not to politicize this and vent, doesn't mean I'm wearing flowers in my hair and singing kumbaya.


----------



## Milkman

John Prine's wife updates on singer's condition following "sudden onset" of coronavirus

Update


----------



## torndownunit

High/Deaf said:


> I don't see anyone 'freaking out' in this thread. I've seen people freaking out in reality, though.
> 
> If a bit of critique = freaking out, then perhaps this isn't the best activity for some people going forward. It's gonna happen and you can't stop it.
> 
> I wouldn't touch Facebook with a 10 m pole right now, because it is 'freaking out' and for the most part spreading fake news. What I've read in this thread, while mildly wandering near misinformation, is 1000X more real (with clips from real news sources) than all that social media drivel will provide, IME. But we all have our own level of tolerance.


I had to avoid Facebook for another type of freaking out. People screaming that the quarantine is stealing their rights and freedoms. People ignoring orders to not use closed hiking trails or ignoring other requests/rules. It's really helped me thin out the list of people I follow though, I will say that. I decided late last week to take a break though.


----------



## allthumbs56

Milkman said:


> Well my wife is self employed. She does residential house cleaning (sort of an independent Molly Maid business) so we're completely without that secondary income. She's staying home but no income. That means while I'm working in my home office, she's doing those cleaning projects around the house and yard work.
> 
> It's working ok so far, but I can definitely feel the stress.


Maybe she'll get that porch post painted


----------



## GuitarsCanada

mhammer said:


> And thank _you_, as well.
> My son - who is now in the garage making noise and dust - says thanks, and notes that in fact _he _was prompted to donate the masks by something he saw on a forum as well, that made him think "Hey, I've got some of those sitting around too!".


My wife used to do a lot of sewing in her younger days. So we managed to find her one on kijiji and loaded her up with supplies. She is pumping out masks on the daily now. Not N-95 but effective and needed out there. Most people have none and you can't f


bolero said:


> on top of the clear need for masks for everyone, two other key points I saw:
> 
> "First of all, in practice the 1.5 meters are not respected"
> "Then and above all, a virus that is transmitted by aerosol respects no distance."
> 
> I had to get groceries today, and it was like a video game trying to avoid people who would walk up right behind me, or stand beside me.
> So people don't seem to grasp the importance of distance
> 
> his last line worries me: inside any building, the air is mostly circulated internally. how long does an aerosol linger in the air, and how far can it travel?
> 
> I'm not as anxious when I am outside ( apparently UV kills the virus? ) but lots of people need to buy supplies, and most of them are not wearing masks


UV does not kill the virus. UVC would but it would also melt the skin right off of you. UVC is blocked by the ozone layer. UVA and UVB which are the spectrum's that we are exposed to, do nothing to kill the virus


----------



## High/Deaf

Milkman said:


> I used the same level of hyperbole as you I guess. Just because I choose not to politicize this and vent, doesn't mean I'm wearing flowers in my hair and singing kumbaya.


This *IS *a political event. How do you remove that from the equation? How do you talk about this without talking about the people in control and commenting on what they've done, either good or bad.

I've commended some politicians and I've criticized some during their handling of this extremely critical event. I've seen others do the same (often different from my opinions), and I either process their comments or disregard them. No big deal. I'm far more concern about the stupid shit some people are *doing* right now than what they are *saying* right now. What we do right now will define how the next 6 to 18 months will go. 

Unfortunately, what a few people do right now may have an impact on all of us for quite a while. We need to spread reality to those that fail to want to grasp it, because their lack of doing the right thing will affect all of us, even if we did do the right thing.


----------



## Milkman

High/Deaf said:


> This *IS *a political event. How do you remove that from the equation? How do you talk about this without talking about the people in control and commenting on what they've done, either good or bad.
> 
> I've commended some politicians and I've criticized some during their handling of this extremely critical event. I've seen others do the same (often different from my opinions), and I either process their comments or disregard them. No big deal. I'm far more concern about the stupid shit some people are *doing* right now than what they are *saying* right now. What we do right now will define who the next 6 to 18 months will go.



It's not a political situation for me. I'm more interested in surviving this than assigning blame. Different way of thinking I guess.


----------



## Milkman

Let's put it this way. Is it going to matter to you who was to blame or which politician didn't act the way YOU want when you're lying on a gurney gasping for breath?

Does it matter that you had the right of way when the tractor trailer runs the stop sign and kills you?


----------



## High/Deaf

I don't see 'comment on political decisions, good or bad' as 'assigning blame'. Different way of thinking, I guess.


----------



## keto

Milkman said:


> Let's put it this way. Is it going to matter to you who was to blame or which politician didn't act the way YOU want when you're lying on a gurney gasping for breath?
> 
> Does it matter that you had the right of way when the tractor trailer runs the stop sign and kills you?


Of course not. I just hope I'm not put there by inaction over something that was screamed for for weeks, that was then implemented amidst much crowing and self backslapping, about how proactive and effective they are being. There have been multiple examples of this, there are several more to come.


----------



## Electraglide

Lola said:


> Could I donate dust masks? Those made specifically for woodworking. They are really thick and we have a box of them. 40 to be exact.


Donate them to any hospital or clinic.....keep a couple for yourselves if you want. Any kind of mask, especially N95 or better masks


----------



## Moosehead

I don't like the taste of shit, so stop feeding it to me.

I've eaten shit more than a few times (mostly dirtbike/mtn bike, snowboard/skateboard related incidents) and it does not tast_e good._

Neither does the shit the gov't is feeding us. 

Masks DO help.
Closing borders does help. 
Preventing interprovicial spread by limiting travel.
Going to your recreational property to ride this out would be my plan if I had one. 

Im not mad I just can't believe that they think we can't see past their bullshit.
"closing borders doesnt help" a week later they close the borders... wtf seriously. I get they don't want to incite a panic but for gods sake the whole act of quarantine is just that, isolating the people from travelers bringing it here. Too late for that now.

I am thankful that I live in Canada where we have done a better job at limiting spread and have access to good healthcare compared to the shit show going on in the USA. They are fucked. Boy wonder is blessing compared to Trump. Still I think we acted a bit slow and their only excuse is that this is somewhat unprecedented and uncharted territory. Just stop feeding us shit we know to be untrue.

Chris Selley: Official nonsense on masks, travel bans is killing Ottawa's COVID-19 credibility


----------



## Electraglide

Jim DaddyO said:


> I whole heartedly agree with this. Good post!
> 
> Is @boyscout and I agreeing on topics one of the signs of the end times?....lol


Nothing I've read about Ragnarök mentions your names so nope.


----------



## torndownunit

Moosehead said:


> I don't like the taste of shit, so stop feeding it to me.
> 
> I've eaten shit more than a few times (mostly dirtbike/mtn bike, snowboard/skateboard related incidents) and it does not tast_e good._
> 
> Neither does the shit the gov't is feeding us.
> 
> Masks DO help.
> Closing borders does help.
> Preventing interprovicial spread by limiting travel.
> Going to your recreational property to ride this out would be my plan if I had one.
> 
> Im not mad I just can't believe that they think we can't see past their bullshit.
> "closing borders doesnt help" a week later they close the borders... wtf seriously. I get they don't want to incite a panic but for gods sake the whole act of quarantine is just that, isolating the people from travelers bringing it here. Too late for that now.
> 
> I am thankful that I live in Canada where we have done a better job at limiting spread and have access to good healthcare compared to the shit show going on in the USA. They are fucked. Boy wonder is blessing compared to Trump. Still I think we acted a bit slow and their only excuse is that this is somewhat unprecedented and uncharted territory. Just stop feeding us shit we know to be untrue.
> 
> Chris Selley: Official nonsense on masks, travel bans is killing Ottawa's COVID-19 credibility


My big issue is that the way they went about this, by the time they did take the needed measures people weren't taking them seriously and still aren't. What else could be the result from sending such mixed signals though?


----------



## Electraglide

JazzyT said:


> Las Vegas:


Looks like the start of one hell of a game of hopscotch. Interesting marker in the foreground.....I wonder what happens when it gets thrown.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Moosehead said:


> I don't like the taste of shit, so stop feeding it to me.
> 
> I've eaten shit more than a few times (mostly dirtbike/mtn bike, snowboard/skateboard related incidents) and it does not tast_e good._
> 
> Neither does the shit the gov't is feeding us.
> 
> Masks DO help.
> Closing borders does help.
> Preventing interprovicial spread by limiting travel.
> Going to your recreational property to ride this out would be my plan if I had one.
> 
> Im not mad I just can't believe that they think we can't see past their bullshit.
> "closing borders doesnt help" a week later they close the borders... wtf seriously. I get they don't want to incite a panic but for gods sake the whole act of quarantine is just that, isolating the people from travelers bringing it here. Too late for that now.
> 
> I am thankful that I live in Canada where we have done a better job at limiting spread and have access to good healthcare compared to the shit show going on in the USA. They are fucked. Boy wonder is blessing compared to Trump. Still I think we acted a bit slow and their only excuse is that this is somewhat unprecedented and uncharted territory. Just stop feeding us shit we know to be untrue.
> 
> Chris Selley: Official nonsense on masks, travel bans is killing Ottawa's COVID-19 credibility



I continuously see Canadians bashing the US health care systems while praising ours. Our health care system is rank, has been for decades and getting worse all the time. I have had the need to hit a few hospitals in the states over the years, back when I was on the road. Kidney stone attack and a heart issue one time. Both through emergency intake. They were the most efficient, equipped and speedy hospitals I have ever been into. The care was second to none. Yes, there are issues with access and cost, both countries with pluses and minuses there. But in terms of the care and facilities, no comparison. The US has us beat 10 fold.


----------



## Wardo

The border is far from closed: read Orders in Counsel Canada No. 2020-0185.


----------



## keto

Moosehead said:


> I don't like the taste of shit, so stop feeding it to me.
> 
> I've eaten shit more than a few times (mostly dirtbike/mtn bike, snowboard/skateboard related incidents) and it does not tast_e good._
> 
> Neither does the shit the gov't is feeding us.
> 
> Masks DO help.
> Closing borders does help.
> Preventing interprovicial spread by limiting travel.
> Going to your recreational property to ride this out would be my plan if I had one.
> 
> Im not mad I just can't believe that they think we can't see past their bullshit.
> "closing borders doesnt help" a week later they close the borders... wtf seriously. I get they don't want to incite a panic but for gods sake the whole act of quarantine is just that, isolating the people from travelers bringing it here. Too late for that now.
> 
> I am thankful that I live in Canada where we have done a better job at limiting spread and have access to good healthcare compared to the shit show going on in the USA. They are fucked. Boy wonder is blessing compared to Trump. Still I think we acted a bit slow and their only excuse is that this is somewhat unprecedented and uncharted territory. Just stop feeding us shit we know to be untrue.
> 
> Chris Selley: Official nonsense on masks, travel bans is killing Ottawa's COVID-19 credibility


Exactly. So very exactly. @torndownunit as they make more and more obviously bad calls, people will listen less and less. In many cases, that will be a GOOD thing. In many, there will be dire consequences.


----------



## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> I continuously see Canadians bashing the US health care systems while praising ours. Our health care system is rank, has been for decades and getting worse all the time. I have had the need to hit a few hospitals in the states over the years, back when I was on the road. Kindney stone attack and a heart issue one time. Both through emergency intake. They were the most efficient, equipped and speedy hospitals I have ever been into. The care was second to none. Yes, there are issues with access and cost, both countries with pluses and minuses there. But in terms of the care and facilities, no comparison. The US has us beat 10 fold.


Yeah it's great as long as your well off enough to have good insurance.

I wouldn't move to the states for all the tea n China and offers have been made several times over the past ten years. In fact, the reason we have an office in Canada at all is because I declined those offers. I would have more money but MUCH less of things I personally value.

I visit the States (well until recently) every month at least once and have done for 25 years. My impression of the standard of life down there, including health care, is diametrically opposed to yours.


----------



## keto

Wardo said:


> The border is far from closed: read Orders in Counsel Canada No. 2020-0185.


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> When this shit started going down I took it quite seriously. To the best of my knowledge nobody in government or in our healthcare system has failed me at all so far.


Then you really need to pay more attention to what our federal government failed to do. There is some great reporting in the _Edmonton Journal_, it might be worth a read.


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> Yes and I think we all do, but being angry NOW is, in my opinion counterproductive. I prefer to focus on solving the problem first and then learning lessons and avoiding future similar problems later.



But anger can help spur those who have made mistakes not to continue with those mistakes. Our federal government being the prime example considering how badly they have fucked up thus far.


----------



## davetcan

Agreed. I checked into one in Detroit many years ago while I was working there. I could not believe the speed and quality of service I received. Yes, I had insurance and it was the first question I was asked  



GuitarsCanada said:


> I continuously see Canadians bashing the US health care systems while praising ours. Our health care system is rank, has been for decades and getting worse all the time. I have had the need to hit a few hospitals in the states over the years, back when I was on the road. Kidney stone attack and a heart issue one time. Both through emergency intake. They were the most efficient, equipped and speedy hospitals I have ever been into. The care was second to none. Yes, there are issues with access and cost, both countries with pluses and minuses there. But in terms of the care and facilities, no comparison. The US has us beat 10 fold.


----------



## tdotrob

GuitarsCanada said:


> I continuously see Canadians bashing the US health care systems while praising ours. Our health care system is rank, has been for decades and getting worse all the time. I have had the need to hit a few hospitals in the states over the years, back when I was on the road. Kidney stone attack and a heart issue one time. Both through emergency intake. They were the most efficient, equipped and speedy hospitals I have ever been into. The care was second to none. Yes, there are issues with access and cost, both countries with pluses and minuses there. But in terms of the care and facilities, no comparison. The US has us beat 10 fold.


I blew my knee in Florida playing baseball. I waited in an emergency waiting room for 8 hours and received a brace to stabilize it for flight home. The bill my dad received was $16,000 USD. That was in 1997, that’s my only experience with US health care. The insurance my dad purchased agreed to pay $6000 but said we would have to take the rest up w the hospital.


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> LOL yeah because if we're not freaking out, we MUST be sticking our heads in the sand right?


Who is freaking out?





> Trust me, we're taking this seriously and doing whatever we can to survive it. THAT's my focus. No kumbaya here, LMAO.



Oh really? The federal government sure as hell didn't take this seriously enough, and were far more concerned that a certain nationality might be stigmatized than they were with protecting Canadians, and the result is that people have died.


----------



## Electraglide

torndownunit said:


> I had to avoid Facebook for another type of freaking out. People screaming that the quarantine is stealing their rights and freedoms. People ignoring orders to not use closed hiking trails or ignoring other requests/rules. It's really helped me thin out the list of people I follow though, I will say that. I decided late last week to take a break though.


I use facebook messaging because it's the best way to get in touch with family who are not in Canada. Right now my nephew and his wife in Singapore are fine. Same with my pregnant niece and her partner and son in Australia. My younger brother says the surfing is great. As far as experts go, right now I'm seeing my Dr. or another medical person on average of about every week and a half and for the most part I listen to what they say. I figure that they know better what's going on here and how it relates to my situation than some guy from europe in something written 2 weeks ago or more. I asked about masks and was told it was my choice. With what's available around here I'll pass.


----------



## Eric Reesor

Moosehead said:


> I don't like the taste of shit, so stop feeding it to me.
> 
> I've eaten shit more than a few times (mostly dirtbike/mtn bike, snowboard/skateboard related incidents) and it does not tast_e good._
> 
> Neither does the shit the gov't is feeding us.
> 
> Masks DO help.
> Closing borders does help.
> Preventing interprovicial spread by limiting travel.
> Going to your recreational property to ride this out would be my plan if I had one.
> 
> Im not mad I just can't believe that they think we can't see past their bullshit.
> "closing borders doesnt help" a week later they close the borders... wtf seriously. I get they don't want to incite a panic but for gods sake the whole act of quarantine is just that, isolating the people from travelers bringing it here. Too late for that now.
> 
> I am thankful that I live in Canada where we have done a better job at limiting spread and have access to good healthcare compared to the shit show going on in the USA. They are fucked. Boy wonder is blessing compared to Trump. Still I think we acted a bit slow and their only excuse is that this is somewhat unprecedented and uncharted territory. Just stop feeding us shit we know to be untrue.
> 
> Chris Selley: Official nonsense on masks, travel bans is killing Ottawa's COVID-19 credibility


What is most troubling is that there are disturbed and usually drug addicted individuals going around and committing shoplifting by breaking social distancing by coughing at security guards and deliberately making store staff back off while they snatch and grab trinkets or whatever to sell on the street or exchange for drugs or whatever. The truth is that this crisis is showing the best and worst in us as humans.

Masks help only to stop you from potentially spreading the virus certainly not getting the virus. More and more decent employers, that are still open, are putting up face shields for the staff who are having to deal with the inconsiderate and the insane amongst us.

A culture of isolationism is not a healthy one, never has and never can be, but cultures of respect and consideration are and will always remain great. To blame the Chinese for this is complete insanity and will breed a dangerous culture of destructive isolationism.

Have we learned nothing from history? If we have not then a future of strife and conflict with no respite is our collective fate as a species!


----------



## Lincoln

Although I waited 2-1/2 years to get my first knee replacement, once I actually had the operation, the hospital and the care I received while in the hospital was fantastic. Every nurse I came in contact with was an absolute angel. Second experience, same as the first. Our system isn't broken, it's just a little slow.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Milkman said:


> Yeah it's great as long as your well off enough to have good insurance.
> 
> I wouldn't move to the states for all the tea n China and offers have been made several times over the past ten years. In fact, the reason we have an office in Canada at all is because I declined those offers. I would have more money but MUCH less of things I personally value.
> 
> I visit the States (well until recently) every month at least once and have done for 25 years. My impression of the standard of life down there, including health care, is diametrically opposed to yours.


I call it the way I see it Mike. From personal experience. As you know, we had similar jobs. I have been to every State in the union many times. Some are shit holes and some are fantastic. Same as here. But there is a reason people bring a novel with them when they have to go to emerg here. The system is broken, mainly due to neglect and funding and abuse from citizens that can't take care of themselves with a common cold and tie up resources. That does not happen when you have to pay for it. There are many places in the States that I would move to in a heartbeat, that does not mean I don't love Canada, I do. But the opportunities there are endless. Canada has pretty much driven all that away. The US is truly the land of the free. There are prices to pay for that and I believe they are worth it.


----------



## Milkman

colchar said:


> Who is freaking out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh really? The federal government sure as hell didn't take this seriously enough, and were far more concerned that a certain nationality might be stigmatized than they were with protecting Canadians, and the result is that people have died.


Who? Not me that's for sure.

I think they did take it seriously and it wouldn't matter WHAT they did, those who criticize the government (sour grapes?) will do so no matter what.

But, hey fill your boots.


----------



## Electraglide

Eric Reesor said:


> What is most troubling is that there are disturbed and usually drug addicted individuals going around and committing shoplifting by breaking social distancing by coughing at security guards and deliberately making store staff back off while they snatch and grab trinkets or whatever to sell on the street or exchange for drugs or whatever. The truth is that this crisis is showing the best and worst in us as humans.
> 
> Masks help only to stop you from potentially spreading the virus certainly not getting the virus. More and more decent employers, that are still open, are putting up face shields for the staff who are having to deal with the inconsiderate and the insane amongst us.
> 
> A culture of isolationism is not a healthy one, never has and never can be, but cultures of respect and consideration is and will always remain great. To blame the Chinese for this is complete insanity and will breed a dangerous culture of destructive isolationism.
> 
> Have we learned nothing from history? If we have not then a future of strife and conflict with no respite is our collective fate as a species!


Sounds like what happened with Aids. Not saying anything for or against but Pandora and some of the parks look like the back part of Stanely Park when I worked there in the 70's. Same as a few places here.


----------



## High/Deaf

GuitarsCanada said:


> I continuously see Canadians bashing the US health care systems while praising ours. Our health care system is rank, has been for decades and getting worse all the time. I have had the need to hit a few hospitals in the states over the years, back when I was on the road. Kidney stone attack and a heart issue one time. Both through emergency intake. They were the most efficient, equipped and speedy hospitals I have ever been into. The care was second to none. Yes, there are issues with access and cost, both countries with pluses and minuses there. But in terms of the care and facilities, no comparison. The US has us beat 10 fold.


+1

People can't seem to separate 'good access to health care' from 'good health care'. As Canadians, we love the myth that our medical system is the best, or one of the best, in the world. It isn't in the top 10, last I saw. 

While it has equitable access, the down side to that is health care is freakin' expensive, even in Canada. A significant part of our yearly federal debt is due to health care bills. We are paying with our taxes (and our children's and grandchildren's taxes) for our health care while people in, say, the USA have to be proactive and buy insurance, which most do. If we balanced our budget and had to pay what health care really cost, I doubt we'd be so smug about it. The chickens would be coming home to roost.


----------



## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> I call it the way I see it Mike. From personal experience. As you know, we had similar jobs. I have been to every State in the union many times. Some are shit holes and some are fantastic. Same as here. But there is a reason people bring a novel with them when they have to go to emerg here. The system is broken, mainly due to neglect and funding and abuse from citizens that can't take care of themselves with a common cold and tie up resources. That does not happen when you have to pay for it. There are many places in the States that I would move to in a heartbeat, that does not mean I don't love Canada, I do. But the opportunities there are endless. Canada has pretty much driven all that away. The US is truly the land of the free. There are prices to pay for that and I believe they are worth it.


I disagree about the reason people have to wait in ER for hours.

It's because they didn't need to go. It's called triage. ER's are not Tim Hortons. First come = first served doesn't apply.


----------



## Milkman

colchar said:


> Then you really need to pay more attention to what our federal government failed to do. There is some great reporting in the _Edmonton Journal_, it might be worth a read.


Right or I could get an equally unbiased report from say Brian Lilley, LOL.

The problem there is that news long ago became entertainment as opposed to information.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Lincoln said:


> Although I waited 2-1/2 years to get my first knee replacement, once I actually had the operation, the hospital and the care I received while in the hospital was fantastic. Every nurse I came in contact with was an absolute angel. Second experience, same as the first. Our system isn't broken, it's just a little slow.


Unfortunately that can cost you your life as well. I waited 6 months to get an MRI, unacceptable.


----------



## High/Deaf

Eric Reesor said:


> A culture of isolationism is not a healthy one, never has and never can be, but cultures of respect and consideration are and will always remain great. *To blame the Chinese for this is complete insanity* and will breed a dangerous culture of destructive isolationism.
> 
> Have we learned nothing from history? If we have not then a future of strife and conflict with no respite is our collective fate as a species!


Blaming them won't help - anything. But identifying the cause - wet markets in SE Asia, not just China - and working together as a species to stop that is vital. 

This virus, although extremely virulent, isn't that deadly. They next will possibly be much worse. And that could happen in 2 years, or 10 or 50 or another 100. But it will happen if those markets aren't abolished, as culturally 'isolating' as that may seem at the time.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Milkman said:


> I disagree about the reason people have to wait in ER for hours.
> 
> It's because they didn't need to go. It's called triage. ER's are not Tim Hortons. First come = first served doesn't apply.


Then you must also agree that the system is broken. Whatever the reason. I have been there with excruciating pain and sat there writhing for 4 hours. Unacceptable


----------



## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> I disagree about the reason people have to wait in ER for hours.
> 
> It's because they didn't need to go. It's called triage. ER's are not Tim Hortons. First come = first served doesn't apply.


At the moment, which I figure is more important than how long someone had to wait in either toronto or some place across the line, the wait times posted for the main hospitals in Ab. look like they are under an hour, most under a half hour. From my own personal experience with the medical system here......it beats the one south of the 49th. all to hell. But then I figure living in Canada is better than living in the good ol' you ess of aaa.
nb: why this didn't add I'm not sure.....maybe it's time for a new mouse.
Emergency Department Wait Times | Alberta Health Services


----------



## Ship of fools

Oh boy it seems that the only one here really that should be scared freaked out or whatever you want to call it is me. And yet I also know that if you practice good hygiene and wash your hands and face you should be okay as long as you keep your distance from your neighbour.
I would like to remind everyone what Muhammad Ali said " don't count the days make the days count " and honestly even with my breathing problems already well can I control what goes on around me and my world.Nope.
They are now testing anyone coming into emergency here and treating everyone as a droplet patient so it's mask and all the droplet protocols that they have in place.
a quote from Colchar
"" Oh really? The federal government sure as hell didn't take this seriously enough, and were far more concerned that a certain nationality might be stigmatized than they were with protecting Canadians, and the result is that people have died. ""

People are not dying because the federal government did nothing that's just fear mongering. People are dying because of a nasty virus and some folks out there would have complained if we had a large stock of masks and gloves and such and maybe if the WHO had declared this a Pandemic earlier some may have taken it more seriously.
Can someone tell me how it is that they have screwed it up what could they have done that would have been better in your eye's.
Interesting how it has effected some here and it shows the cracks in this time.


----------



## Electraglide

Ship of fools said:


> Oh boy it seems that the only one here really that should be scared freaked out or whatever you want to call it is me. And yet I also know that if you practice good hygiene and wash your hands and face you should be okay as long as you keep your distance from your neighbour.


In better times I would argue that with you ship.....but not today. Hope you're doing good and don't pinch too many nurses.


----------



## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> Then you must also agree that the system is broken. Whatever the reason. I have been there with excruciating pain and sat there writhing for 4 hours. Unacceptable



No, I think many people go to the ER when they could just as easily wait until the next day and either visit their doctor or a walk in clinic.

If you waited four hours for treatment, that simply means people with more urgent problems than yourself arrived there and were treated first.

Did you see medical staff lounging around when you were waiting? Probably not. 

If you're waiting to have a bone set or to receive stitches and an ambulance arrives with multiple casualties.....

My personal and both direct and indirect experience with our healthcare has been very positive.


----------



## High/Deaf

Ship of fools said:


> a quote from Colchar
> "" Oh really? The federal government sure as hell didn't take this seriously enough, and were far more concerned that a certain nationality might be stigmatized than they were with protecting Canadians, and the result is that people have died. ""
> 
> People are not dying because the federal government did nothing that's just fear mongering. People are dying because of a nasty virus and some folks out there would have complained if we had a large stock of masks and gloves and ......


So I guess, in the same vein, you can't blame Trump for what's happening in the States. "It's the virus, not the way the govt responded." Good to know!


----------



## bolero

what could we have done differently?

one thing: I'll post this here, and then shut the hell up about masks. it's only one factor

from

Some health experts questioning advice against wider use of masks to slow spread of COVID-19 | CBC News

"_Science_ magazine had been trying for days to speak to the elusive George Gao, head of China's Centre for Disease Control and Prevention."
"The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren't wearing masks,"

"You've got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others."

and:

That advice is contradicted by the World Health Organization, the government of Canada and federal public health officials like Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Theresa Tam. On its webpage, the WHO says that "if you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected [COVID-19] infection."

Dr. K.K. Cheng, director of the Institute of Applied Health Research at the University of Birmingham in the U.K., said that Tam's advice makes a dangerous assumption — that an asymptomatic person is not a spreader.


----------



## vadsy

On the positive side. Efficient German healthcare


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Ship of fools said:


> Oh boy it seems that the only one here really that should be scared freaked out or whatever you want to call it is me. And yet I also know that if you practice good hygiene and wash your hands and face you should be okay as long as you keep your distance from your neighbour.
> I would like to remind everyone what Muhammad Ali said " don't count the days make the days count " and honestly even with my breathing problems already well can I control what goes on around me and my world.Nope.
> They are now testing anyone coming into emergency here and treating everyone as a droplet patient so it's mask and all the droplet protocols that they have in place.
> a quote from Colchar
> "" Oh really? The federal government sure as hell didn't take this seriously enough, and were far more concerned that a certain nationality might be stigmatized than they were with protecting Canadians, and the result is that people have died. ""
> 
> People are not dying because the federal government did nothing that's just fear mongering. People are dying because of a nasty virus and some folks out there would have complained if we had a large stock of masks and gloves and such and maybe if the WHO had declared this a Pandemic earlier some may have taken it more seriously.
> Can someone tell me how it is that they have screwed it up what could they have done that would have been better in your eye's.
> Interesting how it has effected some here and it shows the cracks in this time.


Neither my wife or I are university educated. But as far back as mid January we were totally convinced that we were going to see this virus. It was only a matter of time. All you had to do was pay attention to the news that was leaking out. If I was running the show the borders would have been locked down completely sometime in February. The WHO has been lying through their teeth since the beginning of this. It was very evident that they had no handle on it's spread, it's patterns or anything else. China was lying then and they are still lying. We, along with several other countries played the political game for far too long. Canada wants to be seen as the all encompassing love child of the world. Trudeau has made that very clear since he has been in power. It took mass outrage to get him to close down Roxham road. These moves will cost lives, many of them. They approached the whole issue with trying to control panic and fear instead of laying it on the line and doing what needed to be done and still needs to be done. We are adults, we can handle the truth. Be clear, be decisive. People can and will adapt to any situation they are presented with.


----------



## High/Deaf

I think masks are great. If used correctly, they will help more than they hurt. But most people I've seen wearing them don't seem to know how to use them correctly. 

It would be nice if we all had masks. But that should only happen after all of our medical staff, first responders and others that really need it have all that they need first. It's selfish to be wearing/hoarding masks if the people who need them the most don't have enough. It's all about priorities. Risking the lives of the most important support people we have to try and look 'woke' or 'trendy' is just bad fashion, IMO.


----------



## Milkman

High/Deaf said:


> So I guess, in the same vein, you can't blame Trump for what's happening in the States. "It's the virus, not the way the govt responded." Good to know!



While I'm often the first into the pool where blaming Trump is concerned, no, you can't really blame him for assholes partying on Florida beaches for March Break or similar partying in San Francisco.

I blame American voters for electing him in the first place, but no, their nature is what is killing them.


----------



## Guitar101

Lola said:


> Could I donate dust masks? Those made specifically for woodworking. They are really thick and we have a box of them. 40 to be exact.


Call the local hospital. I'm waiting for a call now from the hospital to tell me where to take the box of 20 3M N95 masks that I want to donate.


----------



## bolero

High/Deaf said:


> I think masks are great. If used correctly, they will help more than they hurt. But most people I've seen wearing them don't seem to know how to use them correctly.
> 
> It would be nice if we all had masks. But that should only happen after all of our medical staff, first responders and others that really need it have all that they need first. It's selfish to be wearing/hoarding masks if the people who need them the most don't have enough. It's all about priorities. Risking the lives of the most important support people we have to try and look 'woke' or 'trendy' is just bad fashion, IMO.


Agree: our medical & health care professionals need all the support they can get.

After all, they are the ones in the front line, dealing directly with all of this


----------



## keto

Milkman said:


> No, I think many people go to the ER when they could just as easily wait until the next day and either visit their doctor or a walk in clinic.
> 
> If you waited four hours for treatment, that simply means people with more urgent problems than yourself arrived there and were treated first.
> 
> Did you see medical staff lounging around when you were waiting? Probably not.
> 
> If you're waiting to have a bone set or to receive stitches and an ambulance arrives with multiple casualties.....
> 
> My personal and both direct and indirect experience with our healthcare has been very positive.


I think you guys are both saying the same thing to a large extent, at least with respect to ER, and hey, who among us would disagree? Now that you can get sick just by showing up at the ER, the wait times are way down. Don'tcha just have to laugh at people?

I posted about it at the time 11 years ago, but my at the time 19 yr old son went to the ER with a broken jaw after a vicious beating, we sat there with him for many many hours before he was taken in. He was severely dehydrated and in pain from that too, but told not to have even a drop of water or an ice cube, because he might need surgery. So he suffered thru it, and had surgery 2 days later /rolleyes. I get that others had more urgent needs, but it was also excruciating on the 2 parents sitting there with him. I don't know what my point was here.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Masks (N95) have to be prioritized. The general population has the option of social distancing. At least most of them. Right now health professionals do not. They are probably the highest risk group. Not only of getting it, but of spreading it through contact with people all day. Until supply can meet demand, we will have to live with what we have being put into areas where they are most effective. No one is getting care if health workers are taken out.

COVID-19: Nurses refusing work amid pandemic-fuelled mask shortage at London hospitals, union says


----------



## High/Deaf

Milkman said:


> While I'm often the first into the pool where blaming Trump is concerned, no, you can't really blame him for assholes partying on Florida beaches for March Break or similar partying in San Francisco.


You don't blame him? I do - for ineffective leadership in the face of a crisis. He denied the scale of this as long as he could - up until last week, really - against the best advice of people around the world. A big part of of that partying is because they were being told not to worry about it. Our government at least finally started sending that message (late, IMO), and it's still taken weeks for it to sink in. It is a tiny window of time that you have the chance to do the right thing. I hope we were on the right side of that window because I seriously fear the USA is the wrong side of it.



> I blame American voters for electing him in the first place, but no, their nature is what is killing them.


That may be true on both side of the border. It's a little too early to be smug about our response, although early indications are we are at least starting to trend then right way. Just don't tell the general public that because, for the most part, they will stop doing what is working and what needs to be done for the next month, and it will take off all over again. We are our own worst enemies right now.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Milkman said:


> While I'm often the first into the pool where blaming Trump is concerned, no, you can't really blame him for assholes partying on Florida beaches for March Break or similar partying in San Francisco.
> 
> I blame American voters for electing him in the first place, but no, their nature is what is killing them.


We are no better then they are.

Niagara Falls resident ‘flabbergasted’ by number of people in tourist area


----------



## Guitar101

Milkman said:


> Well my wife is self employed. She does residential house cleaning (sort of an independent Molly Maid business) so we're completely without that secondary income. She's staying home but no income. That means while I'm working in my home office, *she's doing those cleaning projects around the house and yard work.*
> 
> It's working ok so far, but I can definitely feel the stress.


I hope your paying her.


----------



## Lincoln

GuitarsCanada said:


> Unfortunately that can cost you your life as well. I waited 6 months to get an MRI, unacceptable.


my wife slipped on some ice years ago, and I'm pretty sure she waited 9 months for an MRI on her knee. Totally unacceptable. You can now jump that list however by paying about $200 out of pocket and get an MRI within a week or two.


----------



## Milkman

High/Deaf said:


> You don't blame him? I do - for ineffective leadership in the face of a crisis. He denied the scale of this as long as he could - up until last week, really - against the best advice of people around the world. A big part of of that partying is because they were being told not to worry about it. Our government at least finally started sending that message (late, IMO), and it's still taken weeks for it to sink in. It is a tiny window of time that you have the chance to do the right thing. I hope we were on the right side of that window because I seriously fear the USA is the wrong side of it.
> 
> 
> 
> That may be true on both side of the border. It's a little too early to be smug about our response, although early indications are we are at least starting to trend then right way. Just don't tell the general public that because, for the most part, they will stop doing what is working and what needs to be done for the next month, and it will take off all over again. We are our own worst enemies right now.


Maybe it's a matter of expectations. I expect Trump to be what and who he is. His conduct in recent days should come as no surprise to anyone including his supporters.

And, I'm far from smug about it. Actions speak louder than words eh? You want to see me in the next couple of weeks or the past couple of weeks it would have to be through the glass in my front door.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Lincoln said:


> my wife slipped on some ice years ago, and I'm pretty sure she waited 9 months for an MRI on her knee. Totally unacceptable. You can now jump that list however by paying about $200 out of pocket and get an MRI within a week or two.


Well mine most likely cost me 80% use of my left arm permanently. With 2 completely torn ligaments from a fall on ice. Little did I know at the time that repairing damage like that is very time sensitive beccause they essentially die once they are torn off your shoulder. So over time any repair becomes impossible. But by the time I went through all that with tests and results and consultations it was over a year. Sorry sir, nothing we can do now. Also, because of our fucked up legal system I ended up getting a lousy 50K settlement out of it. If I was in the states it would have been a million easy.


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> Who? Not me that's for sure.
> 
> I think they did take it seriously and it wouldn't matter WHAT they did, those who criticize the government (sour grapes?) will do so no matter what.
> 
> But, hey fill your boots.



So not closing the border to flights from China, lecturing people about alleged racism which never actually transpired, and making patently flase claims about the supposedly stringent controls brought in at airports was them taking it seriously? I'd hate to see the state we'd be in if they hadn't taken this seriously from the get go


----------



## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> Well mine most likely cost me 80% use of my left arm permanently. With 2 completely torn ligaments from a fall on ice. Little did I know at the time that repairing damage like that is very time sensitive beccause they essentially die once they are torn off your shoulder. So over time any repair becomes impossible. But by the time I went through all that with tests and results and consultations it was over a year. Sorry sir, nothing we can do now. Also, because of our fucked up legal system I ended up getting a lousy 50K settlement out of it. If I was in the states it would have been a million easy.


Yes, in the land of zero personal responsibility, the obvious solution to any mishap, regardless of who's fault it is, would be to sue.

I'm sorry you had this problem, but the last thing I would want would be for Canada to become as litigious as the USA.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

An interesting read by someone smarter than most on the subject, and even he has second thoughts on some things. His forte is economy, but that includes strategic management, which comes in handy under the circumstances.

Flattening the Coronavirus Curve Is Not Enough


----------



## Milkman

colchar said:


> So not closing the border to flights from China, lecturing people about alleged racism which never actually transpired, and making patently flase claims about the supposedly stringent controls brought in at airports was them taking it seriously? I'd hate to see the state we'd be in if they hadn't taken this seriously from the get go



And as if by example....you make my point


----------



## colchar

Eric Reesor said:


> To blame the Chinese for this is complete insanity and will breed a dangerous culture of destructive isolationism.



The Chinese government _is _to blame. To believe anything else is to have your head stuck in the sand.


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> And as if by example....you make my point



No, I did not prove your point. For yo to claim that any criticism of the government is sour grapes is idiotic.


----------



## Milkman

colchar said:


> No, I did not prove your point. For yo to claim that any criticism of the government is sour grapes is idiotic.


Yeah yeah, everybody who disagrees with you is an idiot, LMAO.

With the way some of you guys carry on, I'm surprised you haven't accused Trudeau of being responsible for the virus in the first place.

Because Sheer would have been SO much better.

This is why this garbage belongs in "political".


----------



## Dorian2

colchar said:


> The Chinese government _is _to blame. To believe anything else is to have your head stuck in the sand.


What makes you think he believes otherwise?


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> Right or I could get an equally unbiased report from say Brian Lilley, LOL.
> 
> The problem there is that news long ago became entertainment as opposed to information.



So you are dismissing out of hand something you haven't even read simply because it calls our woefully incompetent government to account for its failures? Why am I not even remotely surprised? It is people like you who continued to vote for the provincial Liberals despite their history of scandals and malfescience.


----------



## Electraglide

colchar said:


> The Chinese government _is _to blame. To believe anything else is to have your head stuck in the sand.


To believe this is to stick your head up another body orifice. Right up there with saying it was actually started in a lab in the states in 2018 then shipped to china.


----------



## colchar

Dorian2 said:


> What makes you think he believes otherwise?



How about his claim that to blame the Chinese is insanity?


----------



## mturk

bolero said:


> what could we have done differently?
> 
> one thing: I'll post this here, and then shut the hell up about masks. it's only one factor
> 
> from
> 
> Some health experts questioning advice against wider use of masks to slow spread of COVID-19 | CBC News
> 
> "_Science_ magazine had been trying for days to speak to the elusive George Gao, head of China's Centre for Disease Control and Prevention."
> "The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren't wearing masks,"
> 
> "You've got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others."
> 
> and:
> 
> That advice is contradicted by the World Health Organization, the government of Canada and federal public health officials like Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Theresa Tam. On its webpage, the WHO says that "if you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected [COVID-19] infection."
> 
> Dr. K.K. Cheng, director of the Institute of Applied Health Research at the University of Birmingham in the U.K., said that Tam's advice makes a dangerous assumption — that an asymptomatic person is not a spreader.


Holy Moly. Tam sounds like an idiot in that article. Complete bullshit rationale for not wearing a mask.
ie.



"What we worry about is actually the potential negative aspects of wearing masks where people are not protecting their eyes, or you know, other aspects of where a virus could enter your body," said Tam.

"And that gives you a false sense of confidence, but also, it increases the touching of your face. If you think about it, if you've got a mask around your face, sometimes you can't help it, because you're just touching parts of your face."


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Milkman said:


> Yes, in the land of zero personal responsibility, the obvious solution to any mishap, regardless of who's fault it is, would be to sue.
> 
> I'm sorry you had this problem, but the last thing I would want would be for Canada to become as litigious as the USA.


That's why people here and in the US are required to have insurance. Especially commercial properties and vehicle etc. No difference here or in the States. But in Canada someone, mainly the insurance companies, placed a price on your limbs, your eyes and most all other things. Settlements should be litigated. ACTUAL damages should be paid out if proved and verified, which mine were. In this country you can be turned into a virtual vegetable at age 26 and get maybe 2-3 million tops. That's outrageous. I can make 50K in 2 years working at Walmart. Do you think that is fair and equitable? This country is full of lemmings


----------



## High/Deaf

Milkman said:


> Maybe it's a matter of expectations. I expect Trump to be what and who he is. His conduct in recent days should come as no surprise to anyone including his supporters.


Actually, his conduct in recent days is much better than the months preceding it. But probably too little too late. That's the bugger with this kind of pandemic. If you start off on the wrong foot, you may not get a chance to step back and correct it.



> And, I'm far from smug about it. Actions speak louder than words eh? You want to see me in the next couple of weeks or the past couple of weeks it would have to be through the glass in my front door.


Mike, you shouldn't take this so personally. Because I comment on people in general, even in a post replying to one of yours, doesn't mean I am blaming you for that thing. 

I didn't say you were smug - but I've heard many people for many years be smug about our health care system. When I was up to my eyeballs in it 20 years ago I saw the real system, not the one we all want to believe exists but actually doesn't. People who've never had intimate exposure with it don't see the warts and don't want to, they just want to believe the hype. The only way you fix something is to first be aware of what's wrong with it. That isn't being negative, that's being clinical and corrective.


----------



## colchar

Electraglide said:


> To believe this is to stick your head up another body orifice. Right up there with saying it was actually started in a lab in the states in 2018 then shipped to china.



That comment is beyond idiotic. When this broke out the Chinese government his the evidence, denied it was happening, persecuted doctors who spoke out, continued to allow their people to travel domestically and internationally, and failed to inform both the WHO and other counries in a timely fashion.

But you don't think they are to blame?


----------



## High/Deaf

A big reason Taiwan is doing OK in this is because of their relationship (i.e. distrust) of the Chinese govt right from the get-go. That says a lot, IMO.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Milkman said:


> Yeah yeah, everybody who disagrees with you is an idiot, LMAO.
> 
> With the way some of you guys carry on, I'm surprised you haven't accused Trudeau of being responsible for the virus in the first place.
> 
> Because Sheer would have been SO much better.
> 
> This is why this garbage belongs in "political".


I have not read anywhere in this thread that stated anything about opposition parties that would have done a better job. To me, its meaningless. But to say Trudeau had the best interests of the population in mind from the beginning of this is just wrong, totally. The health ministry from top to bottom mishandled it. That's very clear. Clearly he was getting bad advice. If not then he is a fool, Liberal or Conservative.


----------



## Dorian2

colchar said:


> How about his claim that to blame the Chinese is insanity?


I guess it's the way you or I look at it Colchar. I believe the Chinese government should be held to the fire on this as well. I'm a little concerned with certain people taking it too far and applying this to other people of Asiasn descent in the same category. PArt of the reason we still allowed travel to that area was for our own Canadian citizens, Asian or otherwise. This is the problem with forums though...it's nearly impossible to get a really good sense of how anyone is approaching this situation both mentally and Politically via what amounts to text messaging. As someone in the eduction field, you are more than well equipt to get that notion I'd imagine.


----------



## Dorian2

High/Deaf said:


> A big reason Taiwan is doing OK in this is because of their relationship (i.e. distrust) of the Chinese govt right from the get-go. That says a lot, IMO.


I've been watching a few of their newfeeds (sorry Newfies, no pun intended ) over the last while. There are a few good alternate news sources providing info.


----------



## Dorian2

One thing I have to say that's been bugging me guys. Going back to the please keep the Politics down post I made a while ago, I feel that for some reason people are assuming me and people like me are hiding their heads in the sand and don't think Politics is even a bigger part of this than the virus itself. The fact of the matter for myself is that it couldn't be farther from the truth. I've just never shown my cards in that area and will resolutely remain with my self imposed political poker face. No one has to know what I feel about it and my own actions will be the only determining factor when it comes time to hold those responsible accountable. Text messages and words don't mean a fucking thing right now.


----------



## laristotle

Ahmed Shah on COVID-19: The World Health Organization has let us all down

_.. much of the blame for why we find ourselves in this current mess can be placed on a failure of leadership at the World Health Organization (WHO)._

_Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the director general of the WHO, is the first person to hold the position who doesn’t have a medical degree. He is touted for his successes when he served as Ethiopia’s minister of health from 2005 to 2012. But people often forget that he was a politician. He was Ethiopia’s foreign minister from 2012 to 2016, before being elected to lead the WHO in 2017. He was also a member of the Tigray People’s Liberation Front, the party that came to power in 1991 after a bloody civil war._

_To be fair, during his time as minister of health, there was a modest reduction in Ethiopia’s infant mortality rate and he played a positive role in the global fight against HIV, tuberculosis and malaria. However, his tenure was also plagued by scandals. While running to lead the WHO, Tedros was accused by David Nabarro, a medical doctor and prominent global health expert from the United Kingdom, of covering up three cholera epidemics during his time as health minister, which Tedros passed off as cases of “acute watery diarrhea.”_

_With this historical context in mind, let’s re-examine Director General Tedros’s handling of the coronavirus pandemic. He praised the Chinese Communist party’s handling of the situation, even as doctors like Li Wenliang were being arrested for warning about the epidemic and as people were being welded in quarantine camps through draconian measures. He also opposed the travel restrictions placed on China, declaring them to be discriminatory. He delayed declaring COVID-19 a pandemic, and finally yielded when it had infected over 116 countries._

_Countries often have a pandemic response plan that is implemented once a pandemic is declared. But the WHO was left arguing over the semantics of its definition, which delayed these plans being put into action. A prime example of the WHO’s ineptitude was when CNN decided to declare the coronavirus a pandemic on March 9, two days before the WHO._

_The WHO is supposed to advocate for patient health, warn governments of potential threats and demand action, not downplay potential global catastrophes, which is what it appears to have done._

_In a globalized, interconnected and interdependent world, it is crucial that we hold organizations like WHO accountable and demand reforms. Currently, a short list of candidates for the position of director general is selected by an executive board that, in turn, is appointed by rotating minority of World Health Assembly, which is made up of representatives from WHO member states. So a director general of the WHO is the appointee of an appointee of an appointee who may or may not have come to power legitimately. Such is the state of WHO’s leadership._

_To expect the WHO to modify its selection process seems a little naive. But let us pray that the next WHO director general will at least have a medical degree._


----------



## Moosehead

YES THIS^^^^


To blame our gov't is everyone's go to response. The WHO had downplayed this for way too long and now it's too big of a monkey to get a handle on. Whether they were worried about offending the chinese or not i'm not certain but it's clearly out of control and hesitation in declaring this a pandemic would have sent the red flags for everyone else to start acting earlier.

This started in China with live animal markets. So did SARS iirc. The chinese gov't allowed them to freely operate. And any othere asian country that allows this to go on is equally at fault. But this one is on them. Then to have the audacity to try and cover it up and persecute the doctor that blew the whistle just shows how fucked up they are to try and save face. They are not to be trusted.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

There are politics at play here. The thing is though, no matter your political stripe, we are in uncharted territory. The moves we make today don't show results for 2 weeks or more. In the longer run, that may change too. What looks like the best move today may result in catastrophy next year and what looks like today's bungling, could prove to be just what was needed. Who knows? No one, because this is different than anything we have ever seen before, just in the incubation rate alone. When social distancing is eased, will it prove to be a fatal mistake? How long is effective, and what do we do about things we can't control beyond our borders? These issues are probably in the back of many peoples minds. Don't let the stress wear you out. The only thing anyone has to go on is the information we can glean right now. Pointing fingers can come at a later date when we are not in the midst of this. Yeah, the WHO and China fucked up, perhaps in concert with each other, it does no good to make that observation right now, no one will get better because of it. Let's try to stick with how we deal with today and how to prepare for tomorrow. I think that is more pressing....and I am guilty of not doing that. Lashing out, blaming, and pointing fingers is probably human nature. Just keep in mind we are all in the same boat, and I don't think anyone wishes ill on anyone else. Keep safe and healthy out there and cope the best you can.


----------



## Lincoln

just came back from the grocery store. people are starting to wear masks in public now. Even though in the city I live in, there are zero cases. so far.....


----------



## Milkman

Jim DaddyO said:


> Pointing fingers can come at a later date when we are not in the midst of this. Yeah, the WHO and China fucked up, perhaps in concert with each other, it does no good to make that observation right now, no one will get better because of it. Let's try to stick with how we deal with today and how to prepare for tomorrow.


Thank you.


----------



## Electraglide

Cave full of bats in China identified as source of virus almost identical to the one killing hundreds today
and
Bat Coronaviruses in China
Take out of this what you want.


----------



## Eric Reesor

Dorian2 said:


> I guess it's the way you or I look at it Colchar. I believe the Chinese government should be held to the fire on this as well. I'm a little concerned with certain people taking it too far and applying this to other people of Asiasn descent in the same category. PArt of the reason we still allowed travel to that area was for our own Canadian citizens, Asian or otherwise. This is the problem with forums though...it's nearly impossible to get a really good sense of how anyone is approaching this situation both mentally and Politically via what amounts to text messaging. As someone in the eduction field, you are more than well equipt to get that notion I'd imagine.


Certainly there is fault with the way the Chinese government works and the way that it works to stifle and hide the truth. But to blame an entire peoples is the problem here, that is like blaming the indigenous peoples of North America for the spread of syphilis because the disease originated there. Without cooperation and truthfulness our chances of using and maintaining the institutions created by Dag Hammarskjold and others to try to create international cooperation instead of constant petty wars and unresolvable conflict are almost nil! 

One either accepts the precepts of international cooperation or chooses to stick their head in the sands with primitive tribal isolationist logic and the resulting useless conflicts. Now back to music my comments on this subject are officially closed.


----------



## keto

Eric Reesor said:


> Certainly there is fault with the way the Chinese government works and the way that it works to stifle and hide the truth. But to blame an entire peoples is the problem here, that is like blaming the indigenous peoples of North America for the spread of syphilis because the disease originated there. Without cooperation and truthfulness our chances of using and maintaining the institutions created by Dag Hammarskjold and others to try to create international cooperation instead of constant petty wars and unresolvable conflict are almost nil!
> 
> One either accepts the precepts of international cooperation or chooses to stick their head in the sands with primitive tribal isolationist logic and the resulting useless conflicts. Now back to music my comments on this subject are officially closed.


Yeah, a few of us have agreed that there's too much politics here, we're going to TRY and do better keeping it over there. The usual suspects, you know the names.

But, you know, don't poke the bear or you'll get a response. 

There's certainly lots to argue here BUT a) may I be the first to show some restraint b) may I suggest you join or if already a member post this in politics.


----------



## Moosehead

'Utterly unreliable': The mystery behind the true COVID-19 death rate


----------



## Budda

Eric Reesor said:


> Certainly there is fault with the way the Chinese government works and the way that it works to stifle and hide the truth. But to blame an entire peoples is the problem here, that is like blaming the indigenous peoples of North America for the spread of syphilis because the disease originated there. Without cooperation and truthfulness our chances of using and maintaining the institutions created by Dag Hammarskjold and others to try to create international cooperation instead of constant petty wars and unresolvable conflict are almost nil!
> 
> One either accepts the precepts of international cooperation or chooses to stick their head in the sands with primitive tribal isolationist logic and the resulting useless conflicts. Now back to music my comments on this subject are officially closed.


Um, syphilis started in Europe.


----------



## laristotle

Jim DaddyO said:


> Yeah, the WHO and China fucked up, perhaps in concert with each other, it does no good to make that observation right now, no one will get better because of it.


Except that everything they say will now be viewed with skepticism.


----------



## allthumbs56

laristotle said:


> Ahmed Shah on COVID-19: The World Health Organization has let us all down
> 
> _.. much of the blame for why we find ourselves in this current mess can be placed on a failure of leadership at the World Health Organization (WHO)._
> 
> _Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the director general of the WHO, is the first person to hold the position who doesn’t have a medical degree. He is touted for his successes when he served as Ethiopia’s minister of health from 2005 to 2012. But people often forget that he was a politician. He was Ethiopia’s foreign minister from 2012 to 2016, before being elected to lead the WHO in 2017. He was also a member of the Tigray People’s Liberation Front, the party that came to power in 1991 after a bloody civil war._
> 
> _To be fair, during his time as minister of health, there was a modest reduction in Ethiopia’s infant mortality rate and he played a positive role in the global fight against HIV, tuberculosis and malaria. However, his tenure was also plagued by scandals. While running to lead the WHO, Tedros was accused by David Nabarro, a medical doctor and prominent global health expert from the United Kingdom, of covering up three cholera epidemics during his time as health minister, which Tedros passed off as cases of “acute watery diarrhea.”_
> 
> _With this historical context in mind, let’s re-examine Director General Tedros’s handling of the coronavirus pandemic. He praised the Chinese Communist party’s handling of the situation, even as doctors like Li Wenliang were being arrested for warning about the epidemic and as people were being welded in quarantine camps through draconian measures. He also opposed the travel restrictions placed on China, declaring them to be discriminatory. He delayed declaring COVID-19 a pandemic, and finally yielded when it had infected over 116 countries._
> 
> _Countries often have a pandemic response plan that is implemented once a pandemic is declared. But the WHO was left arguing over the semantics of its definition, which delayed these plans being put into action. A prime example of the WHO’s ineptitude was when CNN decided to declare the coronavirus a pandemic on March 9, two days before the WHO._
> 
> _The WHO is supposed to advocate for patient health, warn governments of potential threats and demand action, not downplay potential global catastrophes, which is what it appears to have done._
> 
> _In a globalized, interconnected and interdependent world, it is crucial that we hold organizations like WHO accountable and demand reforms. Currently, a short list of candidates for the position of director general is selected by an executive board that, in turn, is appointed by rotating minority of World Health Assembly, which is made up of representatives from WHO member states. So a director general of the WHO is the appointee of an appointee of an appointee who may or may not have come to power legitimately. Such is the state of WHO’s leadership._
> 
> _To expect the WHO to modify its selection process seems a little naive. But let us pray that the next WHO director general will at least have a medical degree._


Tam is qualified


----------



## Milkman

colchar said:


> So you are dismissing out of hand something you haven't even read simply because it calls our woefully incompetent government to account for its failures? Why am I not even remotely surprised? It is people like you who continued to vote for the provincial Liberals despite their history of scandals and malfescience.



I suppose I could just as easily say it's people like you who elected Doug Ford.

Why read something you posted in response to this discussion. Is it likely to be actual unbiased reporting or just parroting your already fixed ideas. I've pretty much had a snoot full of all the experts who are so frigging certain they know more than the rest of us.

Shall I post an article for you from a left leaning (Trudeau supporting) publication?

Again, this is why this crap is supposed to be in the political forum.


----------



## keto

Milkman said:


> I suppose I could just as easily say it's people like you who elected Doug Ford.
> 
> Why read something you posted in response to this discussion. Is it likely to be actual unbiased reporting or just parroting your already fixed ideas. I've pretty much had a snoot full of all the experts who are so frigging certain they know more than the rest of us.
> 
> Shall I post an article for you from a left leaning (Trudeau supporting) publication?
> 
> Again, this is why this crap is supposed to be in the political forum.


You continually responding isn't helping, Mike. Walk away or expect a response back.

That's another thing we are discussing in political, how people who don't WANT political often start or inflame discussions here. FYI. We none of us understand it.


----------



## Milkman

keto said:


> You continually responding isn't helping, Mike. Walk away or expect a response.



I didn't create this shit show. All that needs to happen is for you guys to take it back where it belongs.


----------



## keto

keto said:


> Yeah, a few of us have agreed that there's too much politics here, we're going to TRY and do better keeping it over there. The usual suspects, you know the names.
> 
> But, you know, don't poke the bear or you'll get a response.
> 
> There's certainly lots to argue here BUT a) may I be the first to show some restraint b) may I suggest you join or if already a member post this in politics.





Milkman said:


> I didn't create this shit show. All that needs to happen is for you guys to take it back where it belongs.


Actively trying, man.


----------



## laristotle

Milkman said:


> I suppose I could just as easily say it's people like you who elected Doug Ford





Milkman said:


> Shall I post an article for you from a left leaning (Trudeau supporting) publication?


The Huffington Post (left biased news)

Doug Ford Praised For Response To COVID-19 Pandemic

_“I’m a Liberal, but I’ll give Doug Ford a lot of credit — he’s handling this really well,” said Dan Moulton, vice-president at Crestview Strategy and former senior staff member in the previous Liberal government. “He’s being transparent, responsive, engaging. Ontarians are really seeing him in action.”_


----------



## Jim DaddyO

laristotle said:


> Except that everything they say will now be viewed with skepticism.


Maybe that's a good thing. There are questions now on why Wuhan needs so many urns for deceased ashes that is out of line with the numbers of deaths reported.


----------



## Milkman

laristotle said:


> The Huffington Post (left biased news)
> 
> Doug Ford Praised For Response To COVID-19 Pandemic
> 
> _“I’m a Liberal, but I’ll give Doug Ford a lot of credit — he’s handling this really well,” said Dan Moulton, vice-president at Crestview Strategy and former senior staff member in the previous Liberal government. “He’s being transparent, responsive, engaging. Ontarians are really seeing him in action.”_


To be perfectly honest, credit where credit is due.

Ford, to my amazement is not like some here who instantly blame Trudeau for all the evils of the world. He has been generous with his praise of the Federal government and Trudeau. He is FINALLY acting like a statesman.


----------



## keto

Milkman said:


> To be perfectly honest, credit where credit is due.
> 
> Ford, to my amazement is not like some here who instantly blame Trudeau for all the evils of the world. He has been generous with his praise of the Federal government and Trudeau. He is FINALLY acting like a statesman.



AAAAAaaaaand so much for that. Hey, I tried. No mercy going forward.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

I am looking forward to the change 

How will coronavirus change the world?


----------



## Dorian2

@keto , I was hoping more people would take to your previous lead. Thanks for your integrity.


----------



## Moosehead

Most things like this end up with the erosion of some freedom. Tighter borders with increased scrutiny. Anyone travelling to the US since 9/11 has probably experienced it on both sides. I've been interrogated on their side but definitely didnt expect being questioned coming home. 

Maybe some good change will come of it; closure of live animal markets and less reliance on animal proteins. 

Watched Tiger King a bit last night; live animal markets are big in the US as well. Not just a china problem.


----------



## Budda

Jim DaddyO said:


> Maybe that's a good thing. There are questions now on why Wuhan needs so many urns for deceased ashes that is out of line with the numbers of deaths reported.


Questions are good yes, but a) what is their population and b) what is their death rate without the pandemic?


----------



## allthumbs56

GuitarsCanada said:


> I am looking forward to the change
> 
> How will coronavirus change the world?


A change based on Ecological Economics whatever the heck that is.


----------



## allthumbs56

Budda said:


> Questions are good yes, but a) what is their population and b) *what is their death rate without the pandemic*?


An interesting question Budda and often ignored. The baseline needs to be taken into account.

My Maggs will hop off the treadmill and say that's she's burned 300 calories and head for the ice cream. She doesn't like when I say that she only netted 200 calories because she would have burned 100 just sitting on the couch. Poor analogy (and one I won't share with Maggs) but you get my drift - a certain number of fatalities may have been about to happen regardless.


----------



## davetcan

keto said:


> AAAAAaaaaand so much for that. Hey, I tried. No mercy going forward.


----------



## keto

allthumbs56 said:


> An interesting question Budda and often ignored. The baseline needs to be taken into account.
> 
> My Maggs will hop off the treadmill and say that's she's burned 300 calories and head for the ice cream. She doesn't like when I say that she only netted 200 calories because she would have burned 100 just sitting on the couch. Poor analogy (and one I won't share with Maggs) but you get my drift - a certain number of fatalities may have been about to happen regardless.


Oh come on, don't be soft. Man up and tell her what's what!



Yeah, me neither.


----------



## allthumbs56

keto said:


> Oh come on, don't be soft. Man up and tell her what's what!
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, me neither.


I don't want my death to be included in the wrong statistics?


----------



## Milkman

keto said:


> AAAAAaaaaand so much for that. Hey, I tried. No mercy going forward.



Well, that's a drag because I so desperately _need _mercy from the guys here.

LMAO, don't worry Kent, as long as the politicos take the politics back to the appropriate forum I'll survive, mercy or not.


----------



## Milkman

allthumbs56 said:


> An interesting question Budda and often ignored. The baseline needs to be taken into account.
> 
> My Maggs will hop off the treadmill and say that's she's burned 300 calories and head for the ice cream. She doesn't like when I say that she only netted 200 calories because she would have burned 100 just sitting on the couch. Poor analogy (and one I won't share with Maggs) but you get my drift - a certain number of fatalities may have been about to happen regardless.


I think selective amnesia or selective comprehension comes into play. It's a lot like the people who regularly brag about how much they win at the casino every week. They neglect to mention losing the mortgage money the week before.


----------



## 10409

GuitarsCanada said:


> I am looking forward to the change
> 
> How will coronavirus change the world?


As far as my world is (so far) concerned it’s a fair improvement. Cheap gas and no rush hour, more families going for walks, brothers and sisters playing together in their yards. It’s nice. The backlash will be brutal though since nobody will ever want to be packed into public transportation again.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

mike_oxbig said:


> As far as my world is (so far) concerned it’s a fair improvement. Cheap gas and no rush hour, more families going for walks, brothers and sisters playing together in their yards. It’s nice. The backlash will be brutal though since nobody will ever want to be packed into public transportation again.


We will have to see. Since the end of WWII we seem to have very short memories in North America. As soon as the latest iPhone comes out we tend to move on and forget.


----------



## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> We will have to see. Since the end of WWII we seem to have very short memories in North America. As soon as the latest iPhone comes out we tend to move on and forget.


 You're right.

It may take a few years this time. This isn't over as you know well. We're going to lose a lot of good (and surely some not so good) people.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Budda said:


> Questions are good yes, but a) what is their population and b) what is their death rate without the pandemic?


Lines of urns in Wuhan prompt questions about the veracity of China’s COVID-19 death toll

Wuhan COVID-19 death toll may be in tens of thousands, data on cremations and shipments of urns suggest

_By subtracting the expected deaths of roughly 16,000 in Wuhan, based on China's annual death rate over two and a half months, they estimate that the urns show that the coronavirus outbreak could have resulted in approximately 26,000 deaths. It is currently unclear, however, how many of the urns have been used._


----------



## allthumbs56

Jim DaddyO said:


> Lines of urns in Wuhan prompt questions about the veracity of China’s COVID-19 death toll
> 
> Wuhan COVID-19 death toll may be in tens of thousands, data on cremations and shipments of urns suggest
> 
> _By subtracting the expected deaths of roughly 16,000 in Wuhan, based on China's annual death rate over two and a half months, they estimate that the urns show that the coronavirus outbreak could have resulted in approximately 26,000 deaths. It is currently unclear, however, how many of the urns have been used._


And ....... there's that all important baseline I mentioned earlier. 

Seriously, I doubt we'll ever know the real numbers - from China, or from anywhere else. There are tons of numbers still in dispute from WWII. In the end, the numbers that matter are the ones around me.


----------



## Budda

Good to see everyone glossed over the "syphilis was north american" false fact that got debunked in the melee .


----------



## Milkman

Budda said:


> Good to see everyone glossed over the "syphilis was north american" false fact that got debunked in the melee .


Did you know that if you're looking for sympathy, you can find it between shit and syphilis in the dictionary?


----------



## laristotle




----------



## vadsy




----------



## Milkman

laristotle said:


> View attachment 302806


----------



## Budda

Milkman said:


> Did you know that if you're looking for sympathy, you can find it between shit and syphilis in the dictionary?


As one of the few POC on this forum, I'm gonna call out the BS when I see it.


----------



## Milkman

Budda said:


> As one of the few POC on this forum, I'm gonna call out the BS when I see it.


 What BS? Look it up.


----------



## keto

NM. wrong again. Edited out.


----------



## Dorian2

Budda said:


> As one of the few POC on this forum, I'm gonna call out the BS when I see it.


Glad you did. I had no clue.


----------



## mhammer

Okay, so I will remind folks here of a few things, and try to summarize:

1) There is a political subforum where rampant name-calling and blaming is permitted and apparently encouraged. I don't go there anymore so I may be mistaken. But if people feel that finger-pointing is a necessary part of discussing our current situation, then that subforum is really the place for it, much like questions about guitars or amplifiers generally have no place in the bass or concerts subfora, and stolen gear announcements don't go in the theory and technique subforum. Everything in its proper place.

2) There is currently a pandemic revolving around a novel virus, which has taken many lives, disrupted many more, and interfered with the economies of many nations. People want information about what is happening, what to do, what is being done, whether it is having a beneficial effect, and what additional hardships they might expect. They'd also like a bit of cameraderie here, since they can't go out visiting, and maybe some info about where they can get particular supplies that might be hard to come by. I don't know about you, but I think that's a fabulous list of what to talk about here. I'm sure there are other related pieces of information that fit, too, but ire and vitriol against forum members or other persons don't really fit in all that well. Again, everything in its proper place.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

allthumbs56 said:


> And ....... there's that all important baseline I mentioned earlier.


That's why I specifically put that story in. Ask and ye shall receive.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

This is a topic that we have never really faced before. It's of importance to every human on the planet. That's why we have continued leave this one in the open mic category. Of course politics is going to creep into the conversation. It's a large part of the whole thing. But we must do the best we can to leave the personal attacks out of it. I think we can express displeasure with decisions that have been made by governments without getting into personal attacks. Same as we can applaud certain decisions. Try to keep it clean and hopefully we can keep this thread going for the good of all. We could lock this down and start a new one but again I think it's good to have a place to discuss it and have it accessible to all.


----------



## jb welder

Maybe a good time for a refresher so people can get on board or it (thread) can get locked up, no?
It's not so hard (he says but doesn't always do), these are the rules, #2, #10, #11 being particularly relevent to this thread:



GuitarsCanada said:


> [1] All posts must be on subject and of substance.
> 
> [2] Please respect all opinions on all subjects. You may disagree with the post, but please allow everyone to express themselves. Do not attack the poster
> 
> [3] All non guitar related threads should be posted in the "Open Mic" or "Music" forums.
> 
> [4] The For Sale forum and Dealer forum require a paid subscription in order to "create" a thread. You do not require a subscription to buy or contact a seller. All other areas within the forum do not require a subscription. If you would like to become a supporting member of GC click here Become A Supporting Member. All threads will be deleted after 60 days to keep things neat. We would appreciate members DELETING their threads if items are sold or no longer for sale. No Dealers allowed.
> 
> [5] List only items you own and show an asking price in CDN dollars. (Trade items do not require an asking price)
> 
> [6] Dealers may list items in the "Dealers" forum
> 
> [7] Please remember the reason we exist. Guitars and Gear.
> 
> [8] Do not post unsubstantiated, defamatory comments about businesses and people you have had dealings with.
> 
> [9] Blatant advertising and hit and run advertisers will be banned and threads deleted.
> 
> [10] No political or religious related threads. Topics that create a combative atmosphere may be locked and or deleted by GC moderators.
> 
> [11] Signatures are to be kept to a gear, music or band related content. There are to be no political, religious or contentious statements or quotes.
> 
> 
> Although the administrators and moderators of GuitarsCanada.com - The Canadian Guitar Forum will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author
> 
> By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violate of any laws.
> 
> The owners of GuitarsCanada.com - The Canadian Guitar Forum and it's moderators reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.


----------



## jimsz

Yeah, we've all got it pretty tough right now, but I sometimes wonder what it would be like living in occupied France, for example, waking up every day for 4 years to Nazis who could at any moment decide to use you for target practice. That's some serious stress.


----------



## vadsy

it’s ok the Allies are coming



http://imgur.com/height%3D720%3Bid%3D79iAztE%3Btype%3Dgifv%3Bwidth%3D720


----------



## vadsy

more good news..


----------



## Electraglide

Budda said:


> Questions are good yes, but a) what is their population and b) what is their death rate without the pandemic?


Wikipidia says their metro population in 2018 was 19,000,000. Their urban population was 8,896,900 and their sub-provincial city population was 11,081,000. Their annual death rate would probably be about the same as the rest of China which was 7.261/1000 in 2019. Also from wikipidia. If I did the math right that would be 138,000 aprox. die a year normally from their metro population. That's what, around 2600 or so per week. 
Since they might not have time to take care of all those bodies there could be 31,000+ sets of ashes on top of those from Corona needing urns.


----------



## vadsy




----------



## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> Did you know that if you're looking for sympathy, you can find it between shit and syphilis in the dictionary?


Not too sure if the use the 'umbrella' anymore or a shot of Mercury in tender spots....men and women.


----------



## mhammer

GuitarsCanada said:


> This is a topic that we have never really faced before. It's of importance to every human on the planet. That's why we have continued leave this one in the open mic category. Of course politics is going to creep into the conversation. It's a large part of the whole thing. But we must do the best we can to leave the personal attacks out of it. I think we can express displeasure with decisions that have been made by governments without getting into personal attacks. Same as we can applaud certain decisions. Try to keep it clean and hopefully we can keep this thread going for the good of all. We could lock this down and start a new one but again I think it's good to have a place to discuss it and have it accessible to all.


Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought there were essentially two streams of discussion: this one and one in the political subforum


----------



## Electraglide

Dorian2 said:


> Glad you did. I had no clue.


Shi....Sym....Syph...


----------



## Electraglide

G


jimsz said:


> Yeah, we've all got it pretty tough right now, but I sometimes wonder what it would be like living in occupied France, for example, waking up every day for 4 years to Nazis who could at any moment decide to use you for target practice. That's some serious stress.


Growing up there were people around who did.....along with some with numbers on their arms. A lot of time on Nov. 11 some would give talks at schools along with some from Germany who were in Berlin when the Russians came in. It was a bitch.


----------



## Eric Reesor

Budda said:


> Good to see everyone glossed over the "syphilis was north american" false fact that got debunked in the melee .


Well I have broken one promise here to clarify a statement that was only too quickly misunderstood. The facts are that it was common practice for us white guys, our doctors, missionaries and even prejudiced teachers and politicians to blame the spread of venereal diseases on the native populations of North America. In Polynesia the propensity for social contact and sharing of genes that we consider primitive was blamed by ships doctors for the spread the problems our actions created. Captain Cook had a hell of a time dealing with his crews for this very reason. Canada has been no better than the US in this regard.

My point was and still is that prejudice is a far greater disease which is still being spread by those who have lost or have been raised without a sense of reason and compassion for other humans that are different then they are. I put no faith and have no patience for those who "trump" up a holier than thou stance against the Chinese who were the first to cause the rapid spread of this particular virus. The lessons of Apollo 8 and the earthrise picture which is my desktop seem to have vanished in a haze of international tribal madness.

The fear mongering caused by the poison of prejudice is the enemy here and it is and has always been far more dangerous to humanity than all other diseases combined.


----------



## Guitar101

Chris Como (CNN) diagnosed with Covid-19
Chris is broadcasting his show from his rec room nightly at 9pm if anyone is interested.


----------



## 10409

My business is eligible for a 40k interest free loan to cover covid losses

10k of that loan is forgiven if paid back by Dec 2022

So I can just borrow 40k and pay back the 30 right away. The only question is, what kind of guitar did the government just give me


----------



## JBFairthorne

mike_oxbig said:


> My business is eligible for a 40k interest free loan to cover covid losses
> 
> 10k of that loan is forgiven if paid back by Dec 2022
> 
> So I can just borrow 40k and pay back the 30 right away. The only question is, what kind of guitar did the government just give me


I really hope that’s a joke. It would be pretty unscrupulous to actually do something like that.


----------



## Kenmac

Just thought I'd share a comment I saw on another forum that I frequent that was made by an older American lady:

"Whenever I go out I feel like I'm stuck in a low budget psycho thriller...seeing only fearful eyes and face masks....and I can't help but think, this must be a bad dream."

Also, I think one of the good things that may come when this is over is that people, and hopefully younger people, will once again understand the importance of patience. We live in an "instant gratification' world and maybe this time they'll "get" that, but then again they may just go back to the "I want it all and I want it now" mindset after 2 days. Just my thoughts.


----------



## 10409

JBFairthorne said:


> I really hope that’s a joke. It would be pretty unscrupulous to actually do something like that.


Smaller words please. I’d never spend 10k on a guitar. But the loan isn’t a joke, just got the email from cibc


----------



## Moosehead

Kenmac said:


> Just thought I'd share a comment I saw on another forum that I frequent that was made by an older American lady:
> 
> "Whenever I go out I feel like I'm stuck in a low budget psycho thriller...seeing only fearful eyes and face masks....and I can't help but think, this must be a bad dream."
> 
> Also, I think one of the good things that may come when this is over is that people, and hopefully younger people, will once again understand the importance of patience. We live in an "instant gratification' world and maybe this time they'll "get" that, but then again they may just go back to the "I want it all and I want it now" mindset after 2 days. Just my thoughts.


I am concerned how this scenario will play out in the states. They have some of the best and brightest there but the idiots out number them greatly. And those idiots are armed. I think the vast majority will try to pull together but a lot can happen in a few weeks. I've had to do 2 grocery runs while on 2 week quarantine. There were lots of bare spot on the shelves. Can't seem to find garlic and a few other culinary things. Lots of Tp for my bunghole though.
It wouldnt take much to tip the scales and have people start looting. Something like food scarcity might put them into a panic where some might take advantage. They said on the news today they expect 100 - 200k deaths. Doctors and nurses are not being supplied enough ppe among othe necessities (ventilators) and without getting overtly political theyre being led by a clown who won't give them what they are asking for. NY is too close to home for me not to think about what could happen.


----------



## Dorian2

Wonder what happening in the Correctional Institutions? Anyone know?


----------



## Milkman

Didn't see this coming.


----------



## mhammer

Milkman said:


> Didn't see this coming.


It's a bit like Banff, but on a Welsh scale. At least it's not hordes of invading monkeys. And it gives housebound residents something to look at and smile. I wouldn't mind a curious deer or two meandering down our street.


----------



## Milkman

mhammer said:


> It's a bit like Banff, but on a Welsh scale. At least it's not hordes of invading monkeys. And it gives housebound residents something to look at and smile. I wouldn't mind a curious deer or two meandering down our street.


I spent two weeks gigging in Banff back in the …...80s? I don't recall seeing goats but lots of European tourists. Beautiful place of course.

As for seeing deer wandering down our streets, we're about 500 meters from the Grand River Trails which are well populated with white tail deer and lots of other critters.

If I see deer walking down Grand River Ave it may creep me out a bit. I love deer but.....


----------



## mhammer

I've never truly understood money, where it comes from, how it changes value, and all of that. So this is coming from a dyed-in-the-wool naif. But it strikes me that this pandemic will change the nature of money. When a single country experiences significant national debt - for instance, the relatively recent examples of Greece and Portugal owing the EU gobs of money - we understand that money has been "loaned" by ostensibly solvent nations or combinations thereof, and is to be paid back. But what happens when most of the world suddenly stops generating economic activity and takes on HUGE debt in order to respond? Just *who* do they get that money from, and how is it afforded?

I'm not asking as a fiscal conservative or anything like that. It's just a mystery to me how money just sort of emerges out of the ether when everybody's national costs exceed their assets. Any macro-economics buffs here that can offer some clarity? WILL this change the nature of money? My former office-mate who studied the Black Plague for his doctorate told me that it changed _everything_ about life in Europe. Does a pandemic like this stand to change economic systems?


----------



## Wardo

Where does money go - that’s what I want to know because I never seem to have enough of it.


----------



## greco

Dorian2 said:


> Wonder what happening in the Correctional Institutions? Anyone know?


Inmate at Grand Valley Institution for Women tests positive for COVID-19 - KitchenerToday.com


----------



## Electraglide

Wardo said:


> Where does money go - that’s what I want to know because I never seem to have enough of it.


I know where it goes, I want to know why it doesn't stay.


----------



## mturk

mhammer said:


> But what happens when most of the world suddenly stops generating economic activity and takes on HUGE debt in order to respond? Just *who* do they get that money from, and how is it


They borrow money from the World Bank which is privately owned by Rothchild and other super elites. 
I couldn’t believe it when I first found this out.


----------



## Electraglide

Dorian2 said:


> Wonder what happening in the Correctional Institutions? Anyone know?


2 inmates at maximum-security prison test positive for COVID-19: officials
Some employees test positive and now two inmates test positive and the place is locked down. Gonna be fun times ahead.


----------



## tomee2

mturk said:


> They borrow money from the World Bank which is privately owned by Rothchild and other super elites.
> I couldn’t believe it when I first found this out.


World Bank - Wikipedia
Maybe I’m a sucker for believing Wikipedia, but I don’t see the name Rothschild mentioned once, or private ownership. Canada is number 9 in voting status.


----------



## guitarman2

tomee2 said:


> World Bank - Wikipedia
> Maybe I’m a sucker for believing Wikipedia, but I don’t see the name Rothschild mentioned once, or private ownership. Canada is number 9 in voting status.


They own central banks in almost every country in the world. North Korea, Iran and maybe a couple other countries are the only ones they don't have a central bank in.
They don't control the world as some conspiracy theories claim.


----------



## mturk

tomee2 said:


> World Bank - Wikipedia
> Maybe I’m a sucker for believing Wikipedia, but I don’t see the name Rothschild mentioned once, or private ownership. Canada is number 9 in voting status.


Sorry, World Bank was the incorrect term. I should have saidCentral Bank.


----------



## knight_yyz

The Canadian system which I know nothing about is completely different than the US system of "making money". I do know that if you print out too much you devalue it. The American system is really effed up. This is how they do it in USA

The process of money creation can be illustrated with the following example in the United States: Corporation A deposits $100,000 into Bank of America. Bank of America keeps $10,000 as reserves at the Federal Reserve. To make a profit, Bank of America loans the remaining $90,000 to the federal government. The government spends the $90,000 by buying something from corporation B. B deposits the $90,000 into its account with Wells Fargo. Wells Fargo keeps $9,000 as reserves at the Federal Reserve, and then lends the remaining $81,000 to the government. If this chain continues indefinitely then, in the end, an amount approximating $1,000,000 has gone into circulation and has therefore become part of the total money supply.[18] Furthermore, the Federal Reserve itself can and does lend money to banks as well as to the federal government.[19] There is currently neither an explanation on where the money comes from to pay the interest on all these loans, nor is there an explanation as to how the United States Department of the Treasury manages default on said loans (see Lehman Brothers). A negative supply of money is predicted to occur in the event that all loans are repaid at the same time.


----------



## torndownunit

Our hospital here in Orangeville has an outbreak and is in the news. 5 staff and one patient in one of the wings tested positive.


----------



## Ship of fools

Dang thats some sad news. I hope that is not where your other half works. So far our hospital has not had any ( knock on wood ) and I hope that do not ( not good for me ).
Yesterday I read some where here that some guy was wishing he could go to some remote cabin while all of this is going on, not forward thinking on his/her part. What happens if you just happen to be the lucky one that is a carrier. The outer bounds do not have the same equipment as a bigger city would and now you are responsible for a whole bunch of folks possibly getting it. Best to stay where you are and hunker down. This is a guitar forum so its not like you would have nothing to not do.
Just think of all that stuff you wanted to try but never had the time now you do. 
Be strong everyone and stay safe and find things that make you smile and please try to stop fretting over things we have no control over except for what we do. Protect your self's and others and keep off my fucking lawn( just kidding ).


----------



## torndownunit

Ship of fools said:


> Dang thats some sad news. I hope that is not where your other half works. So far our hospital has not had any ( knock on wood ) and I hope that do not ( not good for me ).
> Yesterday I read some where here that some guy was wishing he could go to some remote cabin while all of this is going on, not forward thinking on his/her part. What happens if you just happen to be the lucky one that is a carrier. The outer bounds do not have the same equipment as a bigger city would and now you are responsible for a whole bunch of folks possibly getting it. Best to stay where you are and hunker down. This is a guitar forum so its not like you would have nothing to not do.
> Just think of all that stuff you wanted to try but never had the time now you do.
> Be strong everyone and stay safe and find things that make you smile and please try to stop fretting over things we have no control over except for what we do. Protect your self's and others and keep off my fucking lawn( just kidding ).


I don't have another half, but it's where my brother and sister in law work which is what you are likely remembering from the earlier post. It's isolated to one wing it seems, but the big issue is that my sister in law is a respiratory therapist so she's always on the front lines. She's the one who would be dealing with breathing tubes etc. It's scary.


----------



## keto

Masks. The WHO put out its influenza pandemic recommendations in 2019, issuing a 91-page report on best practices.. Make your own conclusions, mine is that we are being misled.









Found this in the latest instalment of David Staples excellent continuing series in the Edmonton Journal. Find it yourself, contains political content.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Dorian2 said:


> Wonder what happening in the Correctional Institutions? Anyone know?


The jail my son in law works at has done basically nothing to protect the guards or the prisoners. Nothing at all. The first case was reported last week, one of the guards has it. So expect disaster in the weeks ahead.


----------



## Distortion

yes masks are one of the answers to control the spread. Problem will be not getting thumped while out in public buy all the people of the mind set they are reserved for medical and first responders. The N95 are what works and the surgical are useless.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

mhammer said:


> I've never truly understood money, where it comes from, how it changes value, and all of that. So this is coming from a dyed-in-the-wool naif. But it strikes me that this pandemic will change the nature of money. When a single country experiences significant national debt - for instance, the relatively recent examples of Greece and Portugal owing the EU gobs of money - we understand that money has been "loaned" by ostensibly solvent nations or combinations thereof, and is to be paid back. But what happens when most of the world suddenly stops generating economic activity and takes on HUGE debt in order to respond? Just *who* do they get that money from, and how is it afforded?
> 
> I'm not asking as a fiscal conservative or anything like that. It's just a mystery to me how money just sort of emerges out of the ether when everybody's national costs exceed their assets. Any macro-economics buffs here that can offer some clarity? WILL this change the nature of money? My former office-mate who studied the Black Plague for his doctorate told me that it changed _everything_ about life in Europe. Does a pandemic like this stand to change economic systems?


In short, what it means is the money you do have will become worthless. Bullets and beans will become the new currency


----------



## Distortion

_I have a welders respirator with P100 filters.(not approved) It fits tight. I will tape some surgical mesh over the filters and wear my knuckles out defending it.
_


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Distortion said:


> _I have a welders respirator with P100 filters.(not approved) It fits tight. I will tape some surgical mesh over the filters and wear my knuckles out defending it._


The wife and I both have Yugoslavian military surplus gas masks. Soon we will be wearing those to the grocery store. Stay tuned to the local news channels, you will most likely see us featured.


----------



## Dorian2

GuitarsCanada said:


> The jail my son in law works at has done basically nothing to protect the guards or the prisoners. Nothing at all. The first case was reported last week, one of the guards has it. So expect disaster in the weeks ahead.


That's what I figured. News has been pretty quiet on that front. More shit's going to hit the fan soon. Best wishes to you and your family.


----------



## allthumbs56

Ship of fools said:


> Yesterday I read some where here that some guy was wishing he could go to some remote cabin while all of this is going on, not forward thinking on his/her part. What happens if you just happen to be the lucky one that is a carrier. The outer bounds do not have the same equipment as a bigger city would and now you are responsible for a whole bunch of folks possibly getting it. Best to stay where you are and hunker down.


This was Dr. Tam's urging the other night as well. Then I heard that the first thing Sophie Trudeau did upon testing negative was to take the kid's to their cottage. That sends a real mixed message as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Eric Reesor

GuitarsCanada said:


> In short, what it means is the money you do have will become worthless. Bullets and beans will become the new currency


Here is where you can get all the bullets you might need directly delivered to your off road survival ******* rig cause they can't afford enough floor walkers and security staff with cattle prods at a one to one ratio to have social distancing work in their store.

The competition in Victoria mysteriously had a fire and you have to drive to Nanaimo here on Vancouver Island, you can even get new seasonal camo gear there, deer and varmint assault rifles, lots of hunting bullets of any caliber or jacket of your choice, the cheapest handguns on the market, bean making gear, hell you might even be able to get dried beans there.

There sure isn't any dried beans and guns available at the supermarkets around here, that is, that I have seen.


----------



## Milkman




----------



## Milkman

Covid-19 has been diagnosed with Chuck Norris

Covid-19 is now on a respirator in the ICU.


----------



## mhammer

Milkman said:


> Covid-19 has been diagnosed with Chuck Norris
> 
> Covid-19 is now on a respirator in the ICU.


Took me a moment to recognize the joke in there, but good one.


----------



## Milkman

mhammer said:


> Took me a moment to recognize the joke in there, but good one.



I'm trying.

So much negativity out there. Any chance to grin a bit is welcomed to me, and I hope to others. I'm not ready to stick my head in the oven yet, but it seems like some are.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Eric Reesor said:


> Here is where you can get all the bullets you might need directly delivered to your off road survival ******* rig cause they can't afford enough floor walkers and security staff with cattle prods at a one to one ratio to have social distancing work in their store.
> 
> The competition in Victoria mysteriously had a fire and you have to drive to Nanaimo here on Vancouver Island, you can even get new seasonal camo gear there, deer and varmint assault rifles, lots of hunting bullets of any caliber or jacket of your choice, the cheapest handguns on the market, bean making gear, hell you might even be able to get dried beans there.
> 
> They sure isn't any dried beans and guns available at the supermarkets around here, that is, that I have seen.


The Bass Pro here was already broken into a week ago. Ripped off a bunch of ammo and guns. Dude was caught though


----------



## colchar

mturk said:


> They borrow money from the World Bank which is privately owned by Rothchild and other super elites.
> I couldn’t believe it when I first found this out.



If that wasn't an April Fool's joke then I strongly suggest that you not believe everything you read. And next time check legit sources.


----------



## colchar

mturk said:


> Sorry, World Bank was the incorrect term. I should have saidCentral Bank.



Whose central bank do they allegedly control?


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Not sure which scenario frightens me more:

A) Getting the virus and ending up intubated in the hospital with a full blown case.

B) Getting the virus and having no symptoms and finding out later you were the one spreading it around and killing people.

My mind goes to odd places at times.


----------



## mturk

colchar said:


> Whose central bank do they allegedly control?


Complete List Of Rothschild Owned And Controlled Banks


----------



## Milkman

For me the best case scenario would be to be tested and find that I already had it (a mild case). I hate the thought that I would pass it to anyone, but I'm likely in one of the higher risk categories so I'm worried.


----------



## vadsy

Jim DaddyO said:


> Not sure which scenario frightens me more:
> 
> A) Getting the virus and ending up intubated in the hospital with a full blown case.
> 
> B) Getting the virus and having no symptoms and finding out later you were the one spreading it around and killing people.
> 
> My mind goes to odd places at times.


thats why we stay home and when we do have to go out we try not to lick people or things that may get touched


----------



## colchar

mturk said:


> Complete List Of Rothschild Owned And Controlled Banks



Call me when you can offer up a legitimate source.


----------



## mturk

colchar said:


> Call me when you can offer up a legitimate source.


Yes I'll be sure to do that!


----------



## allthumbs56

Milkman said:


> For me the best case scenario would be to be tested and find that I already had it (a mild case). I hate the thought that I would pass it to anyone, but I'm likely in one of the higher risk categories so I'm worried.


I found my self in a bit of a mood late last night. Like you Mike - it's come close to home, but I try hard to maintain a pragmatic mindset. I believe it was Norman Vincent Peale who wrote that there is no profit in worry. Plan, prepare and take what actions you can and then put the worry away.

Perhaps we should be more like Sweden?

COVID-19: ‘Like I’m on another planet’: Canadian Mitchell Smolkin on how life is proceeding as normal in Sweden


----------



## Jim Wellington

colchar said:


> If that wasn't an April Fool's joke then I strongly suggest that you not believe everything you read. And next time check legit sources.


So who do you consider a legit source...CNN maybe?


----------



## vadsy

Jim Wellington said:


> So who do you consider a legit source...CNN maybe?


dude loves CNN. I heard security caught him lovingly caressing Jake Tapper in the back of his Subaru back in college


----------



## Milkman

allthumbs56 said:


> I found my self in a bit of a mood late last night. Like you Mike - it's come close to home, but I try hard to maintain a pragmatic mindset. I believe it was Norman Vincent Peale who wrote that there is no profit in worry. Plan, prepare and take what actions you can and then put the worry away.
> 
> Perhaps we should be more like Sweden?
> 
> COVID-19: ‘Like I’m on another planet’: Canadian Mitchell Smolkin on how life is proceeding as normal in Sweden



Hmmm Sweden......






Sage advice brother.

By the way, I spoke to my son via Skype yesterday. He is recovering now. Vancouver is taking it hard.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

allthumbs56 said:


> I found my self in a bit of a mood late last night. Like you Mike - it's come close to home, but I try hard to maintain a pragmatic mindset. I believe it was Norman Vincent Peale who wrote that there is no profit in worry. Plan, prepare and take what actions you can and then put the worry away.
> 
> Perhaps we should be more like Sweden?
> 
> COVID-19: ‘Like I’m on another planet’: Canadian Mitchell Smolkin on how life is proceeding as normal in Sweden


Madness has not set in yet. But it will come for many that will not be able to handle the situation mentally. We are used to being able to control our environments. There is nothing you can do to stop it or control it. Get used to that idea and you will make it through. Human beings have very good survival mechanisms built in. They have just not been tested in many decades.


----------



## laristotle

mturk said:


> Complete List Of Rothschild Owned And Controlled Banks





colchar said:


> Call me when you can offer up a legitimate source.





mturk said:


> Yes I'll be sure to do that!


You searched for newspunch.com - Media Bias/Fact Check


----------



## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> Madness has not set in yet. But it will come for many that will not be able to handle the situation mentally. We are used to being able to control our environments. There is nothing you can do to stop it or control it. Get used to that idea and you will make it through. Human beings have very good survival mechanisms built in. They have just to been tested in many decades.



For sure there are people cracking up all over the world over this to one degree or another. I'm adapting quickly and better than I had expected, but it does have an impact on me. I'm lucky.

My neurosis and disorders (if you want to call them that) seem to have prepared me for something like this.


And yes, although I'm trying hard to find hope and positivity in all of this, it WILL get worse and we're in for a bumpy ride.


Good luck to all.


----------



## torndownunit

GuitarsCanada said:


> Madness has not set in yet. But it will come for many that will not be able to handle the situation mentally. We are used to being able to control our environments. There is nothing you can do to stop it or control it. Get used to that idea and you will make it through. Human beings have very good survival mechanisms built in. They have just not been tested in many decades.


Once the weather gets consistently warmer and nicer, and people can't get out and do things, they are going to start to blow up. The hiking trails are even closed here, never mind things like sports.


----------



## High/Deaf

That's my concern, too @torndownunit . The weather has been cool and wet for the last week, so 'self-isolation' hasn't seem like such a curse to most. It may warm up next week and all of our steps forward could be reversed in a few days.



Milkman said:


> Sage advice brother.
> 
> By the way, I spoke to my son via Skype yesterday. He is recovering now. Vancouver is taking it hard.


I don't know what you mean by 'taking it hard'? We are fighting it hard, we are trying our best to flatten the curve, or provincial leaders and health minister have been excellent in their information and handling of this. But considering we had the first case in Canada, we live beside one of the most virulent states in the US and people moved freely back and forth until a little over a week ago, we are making headway in the fight. I don't think we are the biggest issue in Canada ---- anymore.


----------



## Milkman

High/Deaf said:


> That's my concern, too @torndownunit . The weather has been cool and wet for the last week, so 'self-isolation' hasn't seem like such a curse to most. It may warm up next week and all of our steps forward could be reversed in a few days.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what you mean by 'taking it hard'? We are fighting it hard, we are trying our best to flatten the curve, or provincial leaders and health minister have been excellent in their information and handling of this. But considering we had the first case in Canada, we live beside one of the most virulent states in the US and people moved freely back and forth until a little over a week ago, we are making headway in the fight. I don't think we are the biggest issue in Canada ---- anymore.


Well it has been a rather difficult situation in Vancouver has it not?

I think people are doing the best they can and but any major city stands to have more difficulty in slowing down the spread.

I didn't intend to single out Vancouver. That's where my son and his lady live.


----------



## tdotrob

A little from the lighter side, made me laugh for a bit and forget the seriousness of everything for a few minutes, which is nice.

Dan Precision from 88 fingers Louie/The Bomb Shelter made this using Blondies Call Me, he plays/sings all instruments and vocals. It’s fun.


----------



## Milkman




----------



## allthumbs56

Milkman said:


> Hmmm Sweden......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sage advice brother.
> 
> By the way, I spoke to my son via Skype yesterday. He is recovering now. Vancouver is taking it hard.


Glad to hear that for you Mike. 

My daughter's in Victoria. Both of her mom's parents (her grandparents) are in ICU in Niagara with Covid. Quite sad for them all because they're so far away from loved ones. The grandparents are both well into their 80's and are only 4 rooms apart but may likely not see each other again.

Last night's moroseness was brought on, of all things, fearing what would happen to our dogs if Maggs and I were both hospitalized. We're both still at work and Magg's boss was tested yesterday (her step daughter tested positive). Trying times.


----------



## keto

torndownunit said:


> Once the weather gets consistently warmer and nicer, and people can't get out and do things, they are going to start to blow up. The hiking trails are even closed here, never mind things like sports.


‘Best case scenario’: COVID-19 measures expected to last until July, government document says


----------



## High/Deaf

Milkman said:


> Well it has been a rather difficult situation in Vancouver has it not?
> 
> I think people are doing the best they can and but any major city stands to have more difficulty in slowing down the spread.
> 
> I didn't intend to single out Vancouver. That's where my son and his lady live.


I suppose it depends on where you are in 'Vancouver'. The denser the neighborhood, the more extreme the impact, IMO. Out in the 'burbs (still Van to most people), it has been tolerable and could be much worse by now. 

Shopping is shit now because of all the moron preppers (so unnecessary) but even that is getting better. I'm an introvert so staying isolated isn't much of a hardship - of course with my mindset, I don't know how anyone can find this such a hardship. But I have friends that seem to absolutely have to have other people around, they are antsy if they don't. Probably much harder for them, right? I sure miss the weekly/biweekly jamming though. That may be my hardest hardship.

I'm busy with yard work recording/playing music, and my g/f and I still get out on our bikes 5 days out of 7. But the number of people just experiencing a lifestyle we've enjoyed for decades does put a bit of a strain on the most popular paths (trying to maintain 2m isolation is impossible for a lot of the time) but we've done it enough, we know paths and trails they haven't discovered yet. 

So far so good, but I (and most of the people out here, IMO) took this seriously right from the first case and first death. Again kudos to Dr Bonnie Henry and Minister Dix for being ahead of the game through this - it has to be tough on them, and they've been doing it for a month now. I have very little to no criticism of them and their hard, rapid decisions - and you probably know they are not my particular political leaning. I just try to call 'em as I see 'em (allowing for my own bias, like we all of course have).


----------



## High/Deaf

keto said:


> ‘Best case scenario’: COVID-19 measures expected to last until July, government document says


Dr. Henry 'outed' that yesterday at her daily presser. The press were stunned but I think most people who see the big picture knew this was the reality going forward. 

I had mixed blessings when she said what we were all thinking out loud. Would this lead to another round of 'preppers gone crazy'? Would people just say "Fuck it, 3 more months, I'm going back to my fun life"? Would we lose any tiny advantages we may have made in the last 2 weeks? Time will tell. But I still think the truth is the best path because it's gonna get out there eventually anyways.


----------



## knight_yyz

I drive past about 7 parks on my way home. Shell Park, 3 Windows to the lake, Spencer Smith Park, then another park near Joseph Brant hospital and one more when I cross the lift bridge into Hamilton. Shell park had at least 100 cars there, the Windows to the lake are small parks but all 3 were jam packed, Spencer smith? Good luck finding a parking spot. The park near Joseph Brnat Hospital which may still be called Spencer Smith, again the walkway was jammed with people. Then I crossed the lift bridge into hamilton. There is also a park there. Ghost Town. Not single car or a person walking


----------



## vadsy

keto said:


> ‘Best case scenario’: COVID-19 measures expected to last until July, government document says


wife was in a meeting on Monday and someone from Alberta health was involved, they said August


----------



## Jim DaddyO




----------



## Distortion

Maybe over sooner. Couple of drugs on the market when used together have got positive results. Studied in France and they are trying it out in NY.
Five days and the virus is out of the system in some tests.


----------



## Milkman

vadsy said:


> wife was in a meeting on Monday and someone from Alberta health was involved, they said August


I hope it's that soon.


----------



## keto

Distortion said:


> Maybe over sooner. Couple of drugs on the market when used together have got positive results. Studied in France and the are trying it out in NY.
> Five days and the virus is out of the system in some tests.


Yeah, I went looking for that yesterday, but nobody is publishing results yet, that I could find.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Iceland lab testing suggests 50% of coronavirus cases are asymptomatic


----------



## keto

Jim DaddyO said:


> Iceland lab testing suggests 50% of coronavirus cases are asymptomatic


Between that and the shortage of testing overall, my little but overactive trying to do all the math all the time brain guesses the world has seen 4-5X as many cases as confirmed. Which would be a good thing at least on the 'build herd immunity' front, but also a much lower death rate %.


----------



## Distortion

keto said:


> Yeah, I went looking for that yesterday, but nobody is publishing results yet, that I could find.


hydroxychloroquine sulfate and azithromycin mixed.


----------



## torndownunit

High/Deaf said:


> Dr. Henry 'outed' that yesterday at her daily presser. The press were stunned but I think most people who see the big picture knew this was the reality going forward.
> 
> I had mixed blessings when she said what we were all thinking out loud. Would this lead to another round of 'preppers gone crazy'? Would people just say "Fuck it, 3 more months, I'm going back to my fun life"? Would we lose any tiny advantages we may have made in the last 2 weeks? Time will tell. But I still think the truth is the best path because it's gonna get out there eventually anyways.


What I am surprised at is that they gave any sort of rough date for school going back (here in Ontario). They said 'May at the earliest' but May seems really unrealistic. The estimates of July for self isolation measures seems way more realistic, so why would school go back earlier? And at what point is the school year just a write-off anyway?

The issue is things are getting worse in Ontario, and my own hospital has an outbreak as mentioned. But that doesn't seem to be stopping people from doing shit they shouldn't be doing in my town. People are being idiots. I hate to be cynical but it's hard to assume the same thing isn't going on everywhere. It's going to take more people dieing before a lot of people wake up. But a huge chunk won't even when that happens.


----------



## mturk

Jim DaddyO said:


> Iceland lab testing suggests 50% of coronavirus cases are asymptomatic


Very smart of them to do all that testing early on.


----------



## ZeroGravity

allthumbs56 said:


> This was Dr. Tam's urging the other night as well. Then I heard that the first thing Sophie Trudeau did upon testing negative was to take the kid's to their cottage. That sends a real mixed message as far as I'm concerned.


In case you didn't know, the Trudeaus are currently residing in "Rideau Cottage" on the grounds of Rideau Hall, the Governor General's Residence just on the edge of downtown Ottawa not some rural property because 24 Sussex is about to fall in on itself from disrepair. This is where JT is doing his daily briefings from. Even if they were at the Prime Minister's actual cottage which is on Harrington Lake in the Gatineau Park, it is about a 10 minute drive to downtown Gatinau and a 15 minute drive to downtown Ottawa. Neither property is in a limited health resource area.


----------



## torndownunit

ZeroGravity said:


> In case you didn't know, the Trudeaus are currently residing in "Rideau Cottage" on the grounds of Rideau Hall, the Governor General's Residence just on the edge of downtown Ottawa not some rural property because 24 Sussex is about to fall in on itself from disrepair. This is where JT is doing his daily briefings from. Even if they were at the Prime Minister's actual cottage which is on Harrington Lake in the Gatineau Park, it is about a 10 minute drive to downtown Gatinau and a 15 minute drive to downtown Ottawa. Neither property is in a limited health resource area.


I think what he meant by the mixed message is weren't they telling people to not go to cottages to try to stem the flow of traffic etc? 

Trudeau to remain in isolation after wife Sophie announces recovery from COVID-19

"Trudeau says his wife has now taken their three kids to the prime minister’s cottage residence in Quebec while he remains at their Ottawa home."​
So releasing info that she is going to a cottage is technically correct even if the location is as you stated. It's definitely sending out a mixed message. And that's not coming from any political allegiance on my part, just general common sense.


----------



## ZeroGravity

torndownunit said:


> I think what he meant by the mixed message is weren't they telling people to not go to cottages to try to stem the flow of traffic etc?
> 
> Trudeau to remain in isolation after wife Sophie announces recovery from COVID-19
> 
> "Trudeau says his wife has now taken their three kids to the prime minister’s cottage residence in Quebec while he remains at their Ottawa home."​
> So releasing info that she is going to a cottage is technically correct even if the location is as you stated. It's definitely sending out a mixed message. And that's not coming from any political allegiance on my part, just general common sense.


Fair enough on the message front but to be fair and clear, most Canadians probably have no idea that it is not at all the same situation that Dr Tam is referring to because the PM's cottage is basically in the suburbs, not cottage country.


----------



## keto

torndownunit said:


> What I am surprised at is that they gave any sort of rough date for school going back (here in Ontario). They said 'May at the earliest' but May seems really unrealistic. The estimates of July for self isolation measures seems way more realistic, so why would school go back earlier? And at what point is the school year just a write-off anyway?
> 
> The issue is things are getting worse in Ontario, and my own hospital has an outbreak as mentioned. But that doesn't seem to be stopping people from doing shit they shouldn't be doing in my town. People are being idiots. I hate to be cynical but it's hard to assume the same thing isn't going on everywhere. It's going to take more people dieing before a lot of people wake up. But a huge chunk won't even when that happens.


The problem is going to be keeping enough people working to maintain supply chains. There are (manufacturing supply chain, largely BUT NOT SOLELY related to China being offline for a while) breakdowns happening already, and truckers for one are being treated terribly everywhere. More and more scared workers are going to walk off jobs, including health care workers but also manufacturing and infrastructure people. Shortages start happening, of necessary goods, you get to see some violence and maybe some crazy inflation as people AND COMPANIES outbid each other for the good stuff using stimulus money.


----------



## boyscout

Budda said:


> Good to see everyone glossed over the "syphilis was north american" false fact that got debunked in the melee .


History of syphilis - Wikipedia


----------



## torndownunit

ZeroGravity said:


> Fair enough on the message front but to be fair and clear, most Canadians probably have no idea that it is not at all the same situation that Dr Tam is referring to because the PM's cottage is basically in the suburbs, not cottage country.


I get what you are saying, but you can't expect most people to know that. And in this case, I don't even think that's ignorance on people's part because it's just not general knowledge. They are reading articles in every publication saying her and the kids are going to a cottage in Quebec, while they are being told not to go to cottages. I know most of these publications are working from a press release because the wording is the same in all articles. So it may have been a good idea to release that as part of the press release. It's not really a time to be sending mixed messages of any sort. I am sure you can agree, people will see "she is at their cottage" and just think "well if she's doing it, screw it, so am I". So intentional or not, it can definitely be perceived as a mixed message.


----------



## Electraglide

Eric Reesor said:


> Here is where you can get all the bullets you might need directly delivered to your off road survival ******* rig cause they can't afford enough floor walkers and security staff with cattle prods at a one to one ratio to have social distancing work in their store.
> 
> The competition in Victoria mysteriously had a fire and you have to drive to Nanaimo here on Vancouver Island, you can even get new seasonal camo gear there, deer and varmint assault rifles, lots of hunting bullets of any caliber or jacket of your choice, the cheapest handguns on the market, bean making gear, hell you might even be able to get dried beans there.
> 
> There sure isn't any dried beans and guns available at the supermarkets around here, that is, that I have seen.


Shame about Island, they did good charters. As far as bullets go, make them. Cabellas is ok but not the cheapest and don't carry military ammo. 303 or 6.5x55. Beans, there's a great selection around here. Some about the right shape and hardness they can be used as double 0 buck in close quarters.


----------



## Electraglide

mturk said:


> Complete List Of Rothschild Owned And Controlled Banks


So if the banks tank like some claim they are going to they're just as screwed as everyone else.


----------



## Electraglide

Sweden sounds better all the time.


----------



## davetcan

I thought Rideau Cottage was in Ontario?



torndownunit said:


> I get what you are saying, but you can't expect most people to know that. And in this case, I don't even think that's ignorance on people's part because it's just not general knowledge. They are reading articles in every publication saying her and the kids are going to a cottage in Quebec, while they are being told not to go to cottages. I know most of these publications are working from a press release because the wording is the same in all articles. So it may have been a good idea to release that as part of the press release. It's not really a time to be sending mixed messages of any sort. I am sure you can agree, people will see "she is at their cottage" and just think "well if she's doing it, screw it, so am I". So intentional or not, it can definitely be perceived as a mixed message.


----------



## ZeroGravity

davetcan said:


> I thought Rideau Cottage was in Ontario?


It is, in the old money neighbourhood of Ottawa,New Edinburgh on the grounds of the Governor General's residence

The cottage in question is the official summer residence on Harrington Lake in Gatineau Park Quebec just across the Ottawa River about 15 minutes from downtown.


----------



## Lola

My friends brother was just diagnosed with COVID on Saturday. She was at our house two weeks ago.


----------



## 10409

I had 2% mortality rate in my head. Wasn’t that announced? The locked in and locked up cruise ship seemed like the perfect test population. 1.6% or so was such an easy number to not lose sleep over.

The numbers today from the second wave of countries to be affected is much more grim. Worldometer numbers suggest Italy is at around 13%...Spain is at 9%. Other countries hover below that, some suspiciously lower, but most well above the 2%. Usa already has over 2% and most of their cases just became active.

Is the popular opinion that China and possible allies are lying about their numbers, or is there a more deadly strain hitting the rest of the world? I haven’t heard any relevant medical news just politicians bickering and podcasters speculating


----------



## torndownunit

mike_oxbig said:


> I had 2% mortality rate in my head. Wasn’t that announced? The locked in and locked up cruise ship seemed like the perfect test population. 1.6% or so was such an easy number to not lose sleep over.
> 
> The numbers today from the second wave of countries to be affected is much more grim. Worldometer numbers suggest Italy is at around 13%...Spain is at 9%. Other countries hover below that, some suspiciously lower, but most well above the 2%. Usa already has over 2% and most of their cases just became active.
> 
> Is the popular opinion that China and possible allies are lying about their numbers, or is there a more deadly strain hitting the rest of the world? I haven’t heard any relevant medical news just politicians bickering and podcasters speculating


I have posted this a few times, but this uses the data that is known: COVID19info.live

As you said though, this depends on what countries are reporting. Some numbers also depend on testing, which still isn't wide spread in most countries.

A number some of the people out there don't seem to get is that the 5467 deaths listed for North America are basically since mid March. It's a little more sobering of a number when the timeline is considered. People who like To say it's not a big deal focus on the % being lower here seem to forget that even 1% of a ton of people is a lot. Even a number that low would mean likely most people would have someone in their extended circle die from it.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

mike_oxbig said:


> I had 2% mortality rate in my head. Wasn’t that announced? The locked in and locked up cruise ship seemed like the perfect test population. 1.6% or so was such an easy number to not lose sleep over.
> 
> The numbers today from the second wave of countries to be affected is much more grim. Worldometer numbers suggest Italy is at around 13%...Spain is at 9%. Other countries hover below that, some suspiciously lower, but most well above the 2%. Usa already has over 2% and most of their cases just became active.
> 
> Is the popular opinion that China and possible allies are lying about their numbers, or is there a more deadly strain hitting the rest of the world? I haven’t heard any relevant medical news just politicians bickering and podcasters speculating


China, North Korea, Iran and India are clearly lying. Might be more


----------



## mhammer

India may simply not have the coordination to gather the data. Iran is trying desperately not to lose their power internally. North Korea probably won't report anything. China might be _telling_ the truth, but it's hard to say. Remember, they locked things down pretty quickly, and anyone from out of town beat a path out of there.

I think it's important to recognize that not many nations have a sufficiently capable public administration to be able to collate the information and report it back to central authorities and world bodies. They may or may not be in more dire circumstances than we, or even they, know of.


----------



## mturk

Electraglide said:


> So if the banks tank like some claim they are going to they're just as screwed as everyone else.


My guess is that if there's a problem they'll be bailed out like in 2008 with more money borrowed from ........ the Central Bank!  
It just means more debt that can never be repaid but keeps the house of cards standing.


----------



## laristotle

GuitarsCanada said:


> Might be more


Russia and other dictatorial countries.
China only mentions their provinces/cities. What about the re-education camps?


----------



## Electraglide

ZeroGravity said:


> It is, in the old money neighbourhood of Ottawa,New Edinburgh on the grounds of the Governor General's residence
> 
> The cottage in question is the official summer residence on Harrington Lake in Gatineau Park Quebec just across the Ottawa River about 15 minutes from downtown.


I'm thinking if almost any other mother had the opportunity to take their kids into self-isolation at the family cabin they would take it and it would be no problem to anyone.


----------



## Electraglide

GuitarsCanada said:


> China, North Korea, Iran and India are clearly lying. Might be more


Could be Italy, Spain, Germany and the way some people comment on our gov't at the moment, Canada. You never know.


----------



## JazzyT

Makes me think all of you are lying. And so am i!


----------



## Electraglide

mturk said:


> My guess is that if there's a problem they'll be bailed out like in 2008 with more money borrowed from ........ the Central Bank!
> It just means more debt that can never be repaid but keeps the house of cards standing.


Which central bank? I thought each country had one? If the Rothschild's control the central banks in a lot of countries like the CBC, the People's Bank of China and the us Federal Reserve, that means they control those countries......right? So what. The guys finding vaccines for this are more important.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

mturk said:


> My guess is that if there's a problem they'll be bailed out like in 2008 with more money borrowed from ........ the Central Bank!


Ahh yes, the banks, the great bastion of capitalism, being bailed out by one of the tenants of socialism....welfare.


----------



## Electraglide

JazzyT said:


> Makes me think all of you are lying. And so am i!


One of us is telling the truth.


----------



## sulphur

"*Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!*" ~ Mayer Amschel Rothschild

Check out the history of these scumbags and how the originating father sent his sons out all over Europe to take over countries banking systems.
Bank rolling both sides of many wars is how they got a foothold in many countries and had them by the short and curlies ever since.

Do you reeally think that mainstream media will report anything on these people?


----------



## laristotle

Electraglide said:


> Canada. You never know.


There's a story in the National Post regarding this.
I posted it in the 'political section', where it belongs.


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> There's a story in the National Post regarding this.
> I posted it in the 'political section', where it belongs.


National post wants me to buy an ad removal pass. No thanks and I don't/can't go to the political section but as far as that goes, from what some people say, they could be paid to lie. You never know.


----------



## laristotle

Electraglide said:


> National post wants me to buy an ad removal pass.


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> View attachment 303026


I click there......sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Seems almost to work depending how"politically important" they seem to think something is. I could also click on my ab blocker to turn it off for natn'l post......not. Most things show up elsewhere on the net with no problems. Nude girls on Harleys are never a problem.


----------



## tdotrob

Electraglide said:


> I click there......sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Seems almost to work depending how"politically important" they seem to think something is. I could also click on my ab blocker to turn it off for natn'l post......not. Most things show up elsewhere on the net with no problems. Nude girls on Harleys are never a problem.


I also have an ab blocker, no matter how hard I try, no abs. Hiyooooooo!


----------



## Electraglide

tdotrob said:


> I also have an ab blocker, no matter how hard I try, no abs. Hiyooooooo!


A lot you years of drinking beer will do that too.


----------



## Eric Reesor

sulphur said:


> "*Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!*" ~ Mayer Amschel Rothschild
> 
> Check out the history of these scumbags and how the originating father sent his sons out all over Europe to take over countries banking systems.
> Bank rolling both sides of many wars is how they got a foothold in many countries and had them by the short and curlies ever since.
> 
> Do you reeally think that mainstream media will report anything on these people?


Yah meine damen und herren! I have vatched de verpflichtend film und know I must obey und lernen to denken correctly on these troubles. Vich is vy mine fader und many many other loyal Canadians, Canadienne, fought and kicked the shit out of the pricks from 1939-1945! Information that was created by Joseph Goebbels anti semitic bullshit like the film below just doesn't stand in my Canada. The film is certainly worth watching as is going to auschwitz. 
Die Rothschilds (1940) - IMDb


----------



## Electraglide

Eric Reesor said:


> Yah meine damen und herren! I have vatched de verpflichtend film und know I must obey und lernen to denken correctly on these troubles. Vich is vy mine fader und many many other loyal Canadians, Canadienne, fought and kicked the shit out of the pricks from 1939-1945! Information that was created by Joseph Goebbels anti semitic bullshit like the film below just doesn't stand in my Canada. The film is certainly worth watching as is going to auschwitz.
> Die Rothschilds (1940) - IMDb


Eric settle down and go fishing for the Halibut. 








Port Renfrew should be good.


----------



## sulphur

wtf are you talking about


Eric Reesor said:


> Yah meine damen und herren! I have vatched de verpflichtend film und know I must obey und lernen to denken correctly on these troubles. Vich is vy mine fader und many many other loyal Canadians, Canadienne, fought and kicked the shit out of the pricks from 1939-1945! Information that was created by Joseph Goebbels anti semitic bullshit like the film below just doesn't stand in my Canada. The film is certainly worth watching as is going to auschwitz.
> Die Rothschilds (1940) - IMDb


Smoke another one dude.

You don't need nazi propaganda to find out about those snakes.


----------



## keto

sulphur said:


> wtf are you talking about
> 
> 
> Smoke another one dude.
> 
> You don't need nazi propaganda to find out about those snakes.


Jock, have a read. I don't hold Wiki to be the ultimate source or anything, but humour me. Antisemitic canard - Wikipedia


----------



## allthumbs56

ZeroGravity said:


> In case you didn't know, the Trudeaus are currently residing in "Rideau Cottage" on the grounds of Rideau Hall, the Governor General's Residence just on the edge of downtown Ottawa not some rural property because 24 Sussex is about to fall in on itself from disrepair. This is where JT is doing his daily briefings from. Even if they were at the Prime Minister's actual cottage which is on Harrington Lake in the Gatineau Park, it is about a 10 minute drive to downtown Gatinau and a 15 minute drive to downtown Ottawa. Neither property is in a limited health resource area.


She's at Harrington Lake? Is that the cottage in Quebec Thank you.


----------



## Electraglide

From wikipideia.
*"Conspiracy theories*
See also: List of conspiracy theories § Antisemitic conspiracy theories, and Antisemitic canard § Accusations of controlling the world financial system
Over more than two centuries,[26][27] the Rothschild family has frequently been the subject of conspiracy theories.[12][84][85] These theories take differing forms, such as claiming that the family controls the world's wealth and financial institutions[86][87] or encouraged or discouraged wars between governments. Discussing this and similar views, the historian Niall Ferguson wrote,

Without wars, nineteenth-century states would have little need to issue bonds. As we have seen, however, wars tended to hit the price of existing bonds by increasing the risk that a debtor state would fail to meet its interest payments in the event of defeat and losses of territory. By the middle of the 19th century, the Rothschilds had evolved from traders into fund managers, carefully tending to their own vast portfolio of government bonds. Now having made their money, they stood to lose more than they gained from conflict. [...] The Rothschilds had decided the outcome of the Napoleonic Wars by putting their financial weight behind Britain. Now they would [...] sit on the sidelines.[88]

Many conspiracy theories about the Rothschild family arise from anti-Semitic prejudice and various antisemitic canards.[89][90][91][92][93][94]"


----------



## sulphur

keto said:


> Jock, have a read. I don't hold Wiki to be the ultimate source or anything, but humour me. Antisemitic canard - Wikipedia


Where the fuck did I say anything about their religious affiliations???
Show me that, will you? That who I quoted was spewing nazi rhetoric.

It's no secret about the origins of that family.


----------



## allthumbs56

Electraglide said:


> I click there......sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Seems almost to work depending how"politically important" they seem to think something is. I could also click on my ab blocker to turn it off for natn'l post......not. Most things show up elsewhere on the net with no problems. Nude girls on Harleys are never a problem.


I think they're also allowing free access to all Covid-related articles.


----------



## Electraglide

allthumbs56 said:


> I think they're also allowing free access to all Covid-related articles.


I just clicked on the ntna'l post page, something about the gov't and covid and the ad blocker kicked in and clicking the x in the corner did nothing, at least on my laptop.


sulphur said:


> It's no secret about the origins of that family.


You mean that they started out as German Jews? Scumbags, snakes, 'these people' and, 'that family' I do believe you said. Sounds a tad anti to me.


----------



## sulphur

Electraglide said:


> I just clicked on the ntna'l post page, something about the gov't and covid and the ad blocker kicked in and clicking the x in the corner did nothing, at least on my laptop.
> 
> You mean that they started out as German Jews? Scumbags, snakes, 'these people' and, 'that family' I do believe you said. Sounds a tad anti to me.


Oh for fuck sakes. Read a bit too much into things aren't we? That family is a derogatory term, really?

I give zero fucks which sky fairy you pray to, if you're a fucking scumbag, I'll call you just that.

Stop quoting me, all of you and your imaginations need to take a break.


----------



## GuitarsCanada




----------



## Dorian2

Some people have to quit twisting other people's words around. How about we all settle down and talk about something we can ALL agree upon.

Religion.


----------



## tomee2

Jim DaddyO said:


> Iceland lab testing suggests 50% of coronavirus cases are asymptomatic


That’s why people need to stay home no matter what they think. If you have it or not, stay home for 2 weeks and it’ll be gone. Then go out, shop etc. Then come home for 2 more weeks. Repeat until no one dies.


----------



## colchar

sulphur said:


> Oh for fuck sakes. Read a bit too much into things aren't we? That family is a derogatory term, really?



Look at what happened to Don Cherry when he said "you people"!


----------



## colchar

Electraglide said:


> Sweden sounds better all the time.



Fake news. There are no brunette women in Sweden.


----------



## colchar

ZeroGravity said:


> In case you didn't know, the Trudeaus are currently residing in "Rideau Cottage" on the grounds of Rideau Hall, the Governor General's Residence just on the edge of downtown Ottawa not some rural property because 24 Sussex is about to fall in on itself from disrepair. This is where JT is doing his daily briefings from. Even if they were at the Prime Minister's actual cottage which is on Harrington Lake in the Gatineau Park, it is about a 10 minute drive to downtown Gatinau and a 15 minute drive to downtown Ottawa. Neither property is in a limited health resource area.



Justin is at Rideau Cottage. As soon as she was cleared Sophie pissed off to Harrington Lake. Meanwhile we are all being told not to go to the cottage to ride this thing out, even if those cottages are just outside places like Peterborough, Barrie, etc. which are not limited health resource areas either.


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> To be perfectly honest, credit where credit is due.
> 
> Ford, to my amazement is not like some here who instantly blame Trudeau for all the evils of the world. He has been generous with his praise of the Federal government and Trudeau. He is FINALLY acting like a statesman.





Milkman said:


> LMAO, don't worry Kent, as long as the politicos take the politics back to the appropriate forum I'll survive, mercy or not.


----------



## Eric Reesor

Electraglide said:


> Eric settle down and go fishing for the Halibut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Port Renfrew should be good.


I really should go fishing but just for not for the "hell of it" over fished halibut. The wind out on Juan De Pukeup this time of year precludes taking my gear out to the banks. I will wait for the incredible fly rod action with the pinks instead now that the once incredible outside sockeye run is all but a memory. That way my little 10 foot inflatable with keel will fish easy and very safely with a 10 horse and still give me lots of time to run for shore if things bump up out at the second tide line. I can keep up with the charter boats with my little rocket and if I ballast it correctly with about an extra 100 lbs up front I can move slow enough to cast my type 6 and still get down to the pinks which come up and chase the bait fish. 

Have not fished out there in years but the last time I did I took sockeye on an old berkley 8 weight fly rod and got into as many pinks as anyone could ever want in a day fishing with both a moocher and a fly rod without a downrigger. I absolutely hate trolling around eating fumes from a motor in the sun all day! Only took home two fish for the family that day. But my arms sure were sore from casting and fighting fish that day!
Thanks for the settle down advice.


----------



## Electraglide

Eric Reesor said:


> I really should go fishing but just for not for the "hell of it" over fished halibut. The wind out on Juan De Pukeup this time of year precludes taking my gear out to the banks. I will wait for the incredible fly rod action with the pinks instead now that the once incredible outside sockeye run is all but a memory. That way my little 10 foot inflatable with keel will fish easy and very safely with a 10 horse and still give me lots of time to run for shore if things bump up out at the second tide line. I can keep up with the charter boats with my little rocket and if I ballast it correctly with about an extra 100 lbs up front I can move slow enough to cast my type 6 and still get down to the pinks which come up and chase the bait fish.
> 
> Have not fished out there in years but the last time I did I took sockeye on an old berkley 8 weight fly rod and got into as many pinks as anyone could ever want in a day fishing with both a moocher and a fly rod without a downrigger. I absolutely hate trolling around eating fumes from a motor in the sun all day! Only took home two fish for the family that day. But my arms sure were sore from casting and fighting fish that day!
> Thanks for the settle down advice.


Beats all hell out of waiting for the coronavirus and self isolation out of Port Renfrew should be ok, especially if you go up to the head of San Juan or up the Marine to where it crosses the river. Be a nice way to spend 14 days if you have to.


----------



## Electraglide

colchar said:


> Fake news. There are no brunette women in Sweden.


She's a Gammalsvenskby import from the Vernon B.C. area. Her great grandfather was an Albers. I might have dated her grandmother, you never know. Now back to Monty Python and the Holy Grail.


----------



## Electraglide

colchar said:


> Justin is at Rideau Cottage. As soon as she was cleared Sophie pissed off to Harrington Lake. Meanwhile we are all being told not to go to the cottage to ride this thing out, even if those cottages are just outside places like Peterborough, Barrie, etc. which are not limited health resource areas either.


Must be an Ontario thing.


----------



## bolero

some explanations for Italy's high numbers:

The lessons Italy has learned about its COVID-19 outbreak could help the rest of the world | CBC News

" In early March, as the number of infected was doubling every few days, authorities allowed overwhelmed hospitals to transfer those who tested positive but weren't gravely ill* into assisted-living facilities for the elderly.* "It was like throwing a lit match onto a haystack," said Borghetti, who spoke out against the directive at the time. "Some facilities refused to take in the positive patients. For those that did [take them in], it was devastating." "

and

"The biggest mistake we made was to admit patients infected with COVID-19 into hospitals throughout the region," said Carlo Borghetti, the vice-premier of Lombardy, an economically crucial region with a population of 10 million. We should have immediately set up separate structures exclusively for people sick with coronavirus. I recommend the rest of the world do this, to not send COVID patients into health-care facilities that are still uninfected."

so China's immediate construction of care facilities was a wise move!!


----------



## bolero

woah....and this is scary, because Canada has been following the same protocol:

"Affected areas in Italy began vast testing of even asymptomatic people in the last week of February, shortly after Patient One was discovered on Feb. 21. A week later, however,* they began to comply with the government's requests to limit testing only to symptomatic cases. *

"That policy of testing was wrong," said Guido Marinoni, president of the Medical Association of Bergamo, the hardest-hit city. "We should have extended testing to the relatives of positive people and the contacts of those relatives, at the very least."

"Epidemiologists estimate the real number of infected in Italy, now officially more than 110,000, is likely at least 10 times that number."


and from an article about Iceland

Iceland's testing suggests 50% of COVID-19 cases are asymptomatic

so likely there are a LOT of people walking around who have the virus, and are totally unaware


----------



## Milkman

colchar said:


>


----------



## ZeroGravity

allthumbs56 said:


> She's at Harrington Lake? Is that the cottage in Quebec Thank you.


That's what I understood, she took the kids to Harrington Lake in Gatineau Park (Municipalite Des Collines, Quebec) and JT is staying at Rideau Cottage in Ottawa


----------



## Guitar101

Milkman said:


> View attachment 303052


Hey Milkman, it looks like your getting a little bored. Did you get that front porch pillar painted yet?


----------



## Budda




----------



## Electraglide

Seems like Italy could be fudging the numbers too. 
Italy coronavirus death rate slows but studies suggest true tally higher
Who's next, the guys down below the 49th?


----------



## allthumbs56

ZeroGravity said:


> That's what I understood, she took the kids to Harrington Lake in Gatineau Park (Municipalite Des Collines, Quebec) and JT is staying at Rideau Cottage in Ottawa


I appreciate the clarification. Those of us not in the know saw two very opposing statements.

Personally, if I had a cottage or a trailer to go to that's where I'd be - the more remote, the better.


----------



## allthumbs56

Guitar101 said:


> Hey Milkman, it looks like your getting a little bored. Did you get that front porch pillar painted yet?


Give Mrs. Milk a chance. Of course, if enough of us bug him then it'll finally get done


----------



## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> View attachment 303052


Depending how big it is that could be a money fish there.


----------



## Milkman

Guitar101 said:


> Hey Milkman, it looks like your getting a little bored. Did you get that front porch pillar painted yet?



Not really bored. I just respond to any meaningless post quoting me with something equally meaningless.

That porch pillar is far down on the list if I do need to find things to occupy my time. Right now I have lots of work to do.


----------



## ZeroGravity

allthumbs56 said:


> I appreciate the clarification. Those of us not in the know saw two very opposing statements.
> 
> Personally, if I had a cottage or a trailer to go to that's where I'd be - the more remote, the better.


In reality, neither "cottage" is cottage in any sense of the classic definition, it's really just a name. I am further away from downtown Ottawa in one of the biggest suburban communities than Harrington Lake is.


----------



## Milkman

Electraglide said:


> Depending how big it is that could be a money fish there.



That was Leonard, my giant Goramy. He was a really cool fish. I hand fed him chunks of banana. I guess he was around 18 " long when he expired. I had him and one or two others in a 120 gallon fresh water tank. Gone now.


----------



## bolero

Jim DaddyO said:


> Iceland lab testing suggests 50% of coronavirus cases are asymptomatic


sorry I missed this post, and posted the info above, too

so much stuff to skim thru, in this thread


----------



## High/Deaf

GuitarsCanada said:


> China, North Korea, Iran and India are clearly lying. Might be more


I don't know if I'd include India, they are still at the leading edge of this and I wonder if they have the resources to accumulate and process all that information this early on. But be assured, when they get into the thick of this and start to report numbers (I have no reason to believe they won't), it will be chilling. Especially if you understand the known transmission methods and how the govt had everyone waiting for trains to return to their homes - for days and days.

The one nation you didn't mention, the one that has the resources to supply real data but the political inclination to hide the truth, is RUSSIA! Complete bullshit from the leaders of anation who always puts their leaders and reputation ahead of all those nasty Russian people. And that's why I hate governments taking over and controlling media arms, this is what it leads to. We don't want to go there.

Coronavirus in Russia: How Putin’s disinformation efforts could backfire at home - Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists


----------



## mhammer

ZeroGravity said:


> That's what I understood, she took the kids to Harrington Lake in Gatineau Park (Municipalite Des Collines, Quebec) and JT is staying at Rideau Cottage in Ottawa


Rideau Cottage is being used because 24 Sussex needs a mountain of renovations/repairs which no previous governments was willing to spend on. Rideau Cottage is big enough for a family in normal times when dad doesn't have to work from home and the kids give him some breathing room by going to school. But these aren't normal ties. Harrington Lake is one of the official residences.

Quebec instituted travel restrictions, and posted police at the various bridges between Ottawa and Gatineau to restrict "cross-border" travel to essential workers. Given that people who live in the one city but are tending to elderly or disabled family in the other city might have a difficult time proving their need to a police officer trying to make the lineup go faster, I imagine the Trudeau kids won't be seeing dad for some time, other than on a screen.


----------



## keithb7

I think we need some new music to help bring us together through these times. In this day and age, I think isolation can still be practiced and professional recordings can be made. I'd love to see a collaboration of Canada's top song writers, producers, recorders and performing artists, quickly put out a great song that might become very popular and help us feel good. Singing along with some of our nations most famous popular singers. A"Feed The World" sort of thing without the large get together. A song that defines our times. Years from now we'll still hear it and look back at the period that we lived though...Please can some people make this happen?


----------



## Budda

People have been putting out music this whole time, just not so much the arena tour crowd.


----------



## mhammer

High/Deaf said:


> I don't know if I'd include India, they are still at the leading edge of this and I wonder if they have the resources to accumulate and process all that information this early on. But be assured, when they get into the thick of this and start to report numbers (I have no reason to believe they won't), it will be chilling. Especially if you understand the known transmission methods and how the govt had everyone waiting for trains to return to their homes - for days and days.
> 
> The one nation you didn't mention, the one that has the resources to supply real data but the political inclination to hide the truth, is RUSSIA! Complete bullshit from the leaders of anation who always puts their leaders and reputation ahead of all those nasty Russian people. And that's why I hate governments taking over and controlling media arms, this is what it leads to. We don't want to go there.
> 
> Coronavirus in Russia: How Putin’s disinformation efforts could backfire at home - Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists


When governments keep their greasy fingers out of it, there is much to be commended about public broadcasters, whether BBC, NPR, Deutschwelle, or CBC.

As for Russia, not only do they not have any Covid-19, apparently they have no homosexual or lesbian persons there either. And from what I understand, no replacements for their current leader standing in the wings as well. But that's a debate for another subforum.

Interesting line-up system at Loblaw's this morning. They have a sort of maitre d' who directs the shopper at the front of the lineup which checkout to go to. The lineup, meanwhile stretches a long way. Orderly, but not the sort of setup you want to be buying ice cream in.


----------



## keithb7

@Budda I do get that.I was just thinking it would cool to have a feel-good nationwide massive hit. I suspect it would take a group of big household names to work. Some of my choices would be Brian Adams, Burton Cummings, Tom Cochran, Jim Cuddy, Colin James, Gordie Johnson, Geddy Lee, Sam Roberts...And tons more. Just a few I like.


----------



## torndownunit

mhammer said:


> When governments keep their greasy fingers out of it, there is much to be commended about public broadcasters, whether BBC, NPR, Deutschwelle, or CBC.
> 
> As for Russia, not only do they not have any Covid-19, apparently they have no homosexual or lesbian persons there either. And from what I understand, no replacements for their current leader standing in the wings as well. But that's a debate for another subforum.
> 
> Interesting line-up system at Loblaw's this morning. They have a sort of maitre d' who directs the shopper at the front of the lineup which checkout to go to. The lineup, meanwhile stretches a long way. Orderly, but not the sort of setup you want to be buying ice cream in.


Unless you eat the ice cream while in line to pass the time.


----------



## High/Deaf

mhammer said:


> *When governments keep their greasy fingers out of it*, there is much to be commended about public broadcasters, whether BBC, NPR, Deutschwelle, or CBC.


That I agree with.

But $2,000,000,000 is a lot of 'greasy fingers', IMO. 

Again, I don't think we want to go there - and yet the 'non-political' members keep leaning into it and expecting no response. How crazy is that?


----------



## 10409

keithb7 said:


> I think we need some new music to help bring us together through these times. In this day and age, I think isolation can still be practiced and professional recordings can be made. I'd love to see a collaboration of Canada's top song writers, producers, recorders and performing artists, quickly put out a great song that might become very popular and help us feel good. Singing along with some of our nations most famous popular singers. A"Feed The World" sort of thing without the large get together. A song that defines our times. Years from now we'll still hear it and look back at the period that we lived though...Please can some people make this happen?


I have a friend of a friend on Facebook and she married a local blues musician, He was live steaming solo jamming in his living room and it was pretty great. I should do that tonight. Normally nobody would want to hear me play but the world mayyyy just be desperate enough for a pause during the scroll. Just gotta put the monetized ad up before I botch the solo

Edit: crap I guess it’s all a solo.


----------



## torndownunit

High/Deaf said:


> That I agree with.
> 
> But $2,000,000,000 is a lot of 'greasy fingers', IMO.
> 
> Again, I don't think we want to go there - and yet the 'non-political' members keep leaning into it and expecting no response. How crazy is that?


There's a difference between pointing out that there's something that involves politics, and taking sides and going after anyone. I posted an opinion on Trudeau's wife and the cottage. That is not something targeted at the liberal party, it was just pointing out an example of mixed messages. This crazyiness going on is going to have politics involved. What we don't need is people attacking each other over political views in this thread, and that hasn't been happening. There can be a middle ground where everyone can discuss this, which is what's been going on. I know some people are showing restraint, and in my case I appreciate it. I like having this thread to talk with people during this time.


----------



## Milkman

torndownunit said:


> There's a difference between pointing out that there's something that involves politics, and taking sides and going after anyone. I posted an opinion on Trudeau's wife and the cottage. That is not something targeted at the liberal party, it was just pointing out an example of mixed messages. This crazyiness going on is going to have politics involved. What we don't need is people attacking each other over political views in this thread, and that hasn't been happening. There can be a middle ground where everyone can discuss this, which is what's been going on. I know some people are showing restraint, and in my case I appreciate it. I like having this thread to talk with people during this time.



Yeah the idea isn't that you can't say the word "politics".

I also like having a place to discuss this, but some people seem to just salivate at the notion of attacking others over politics.


----------



## High/Deaf

torndownunit said:


> There's a difference between pointing out that there's something that involves politics, and taking sides and going after anyone. I posted an opinion on Trudeau's wife and the cottage. That is not something targeted at the liberal party, it was just pointing out an example of mixed messages. This crazyiness going on is going to have politics involved. What we don't need is people attacking each other over political views in this thread, and that hasn't been happening. There can be a middle ground where everyone can discuss this, which is what's been going on. I know some people are showing restraint, and in my case I appreciate it. I like having this thread to talk with people during this time.


I agree. 

With something like this, it's nearly impossible not to be political. And depending on your perspective, what is political to some isn't to others. I make statements taken as political by others. So do people on the other side of the spectrum. 

It's just strange to make a mildly political statement here (such as the one I replied to, disregarding the one I ignored on the previous page), and not expect someone to reply to that in a political way. None of those comments are going to just lay there unacknowledged.


----------



## 10409

I think you should all just learn to coexist. It might be your last chance.


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> Interesting line-up system at Loblaw's this morning. They have a sort of maitre d' who directs the shopper at the front of the lineup which checkout to go to. The lineup, meanwhile stretches a long way. Orderly, but not the sort of setup you want to be buying ice cream in.


The line up for the self serve at the wally world I go to was long the last time I was there. You stand in line until they call you to one of 15 tills and they clean the till after you're done. No line up cop for the regular tills with cashiers.....you just get in one of the lines and wait your turn.....a lot faster. They have shields up, the cashiers wear gloves and masks and clean the gloves with sanitizer between each customer.....and they take cash. They have tape on the floor at 6' intervals and most people respect the tape. The grocery store near me has people going round and wiping things down.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

mike_oxbig said:


> I think you should all just learn to coexist. It might be your last chance.


Or perhaps the beginning?


----------



## vadsy




----------



## Wardo

I had this dream where one of the local bars was doing a benefit for the beer virus and I agreed to play at it; so during my first song I started noticing that everyone in the audience was sick as dogs. Turns out they all had the virus going on. Then I woke up and went to work.


----------



## Electraglide

Wardo said:


> I had this dream where one of the local bars was doing a benefit for the beer virus and I agreed to play at it; so during my first song I started noticing that everyone in the audience was sick as dogs. Turns out they all had the virus going on. Then I woke up and went to work.


So it wasn't your playing?


----------



## Electraglide

keithb7 said:


> I think we need some new music to help bring us together through these times. In this day and age, I think isolation can still be practiced and professional recordings can be made. I'd love to see a collaboration of Canada's top song writers, producers, recorders and performing artists, quickly put out a great song that might become very popular and help us feel good. Singing along with some of our nations most famous popular singers. A"Feed The World" sort of thing without the large get together. A song that defines our times. Years from now we'll still hear it and look back at the period that we lived though...Please can some people make this happen?


Wasn't there a Canadian 45 along the lines of "We are the world" from the same time? I seem to recall having an autographed promo copy.


----------



## vadsy




----------



## bolero

here come the crazies:

California police say COVID-19 conspiracy-minded engineer derailed train | CBC News


----------



## Milkman

vadsy said:


>



If this were true, I'd NEVER leave my room.

And like it.


----------



## vadsy

bolero said:


> here come the crazies:
> 
> California police say COVID-19 conspiracy-minded engineer derailed train | CBC News


They’ve been out for a while. I read this morning the doctor scientist heading this thing up for Trump is having to beef up security because death threats


----------



## Electraglide

bolero said:


> here come the crazies:
> 
> California police say COVID-19 conspiracy-minded engineer derailed train | CBC News


Didn't know train wrecking was an offense. As far as why he did it, I guess people see conspiracies everywhere.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

I think that reporting and forecasting on this pandemic may not be accurate anywhere in the world. I don't think that all of it is duplicitous or intentionally misleading (although in some cases it may be). There are problems with the gestation period of this disease. What we are seeing today is reporting on results from around 2 weeks ago. The data is already out of date. I don't think anyone will get a real handle on it, all they can say is "to the best of our knowledge" which is also changing from week to week. You can test a million people and say they are all clear, but that was only at the moment of testing, which could also be unreliable, and they may not be clear an hour after the test because they came in contact with the virus. Then that may not show up for 2 weeks....or at all. Some people just don't show symptoms, but they could be moving it around.


----------



## 10409

vadsy said:


> They’ve been out for a while. I read this morning the doctor scientist heading this thing up for Trump is having to beef up security because death threats


lol 236k death threats

And counting


----------



## Milkman

In our area all we are being told is the number of cases in the entire county, but nothing specific to the city I live in. It's a big county and knowing there are 19 cases is helpful but I would much rather know what's going on in my city.

Sadly, the local newspaper, once a reasonably good source of news, has been almost driven out of business by the same forces that are affecting most print based publications.

The online version is all but useless.


----------



## vadsy

Electraglide said:


> Didn't know train wrecking was an offense. As far as why he did it, I guess people see conspiracies everywhere.


really? sure seems like some sort of offence to me

Prosecutors: Engineer deliberately ran train off tracks in attempt to smash the USNS Mercy

_"You only get this chance once. The whole world is watching. I had to. People don't know what's going on here. Now they will."_


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Milkman said:


> In our area all we are being told is the number of cases in the entire county, but nothing specific to the city I live in. It's a big county and knowing there are 19 cases is helpful but I would much rather know what's going on in my city.
> 
> Sadly, the local newspaper, once a reasonably good source of news, has been almost driven out of business by the same forces that are affecting most print based publications.
> 
> The online version is all but useless.


Niagara Region has consistently lied and withheld information. Finally, due to outraged citizens and cases leaking out via social media, they have decided to start releasing more information. Too late now.


----------



## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> Niagara Region has consistently lied and withheld information. Finally, due to outraged citizens and cases leaking out via social media, they have decided to start releasing more information. Too late now.



Well it wouldn't change what I and my family are doing, but I happen to know that most of the 19 cases are in outlying areas and not in this city. It's not a matter of withholding information here. Nobody is reporting on it. We have no reputable source of local news anymore.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

_"You deserve to know what I know when you’re making decisions for yourself, family and community," Ontario Premier Doug Ford said during a news conference at Queen's Park on Thursday._ 

'You deserve to know': Ontario will release modelling data on 'extremely serious' COVID-19 threat


----------



## allthumbs56

Milkman said:


> If this were true, I'd NEVER leave my room.
> 
> And like it.


I'll bet whoever made it up was born in March.


----------



## Milkman

allthumbs56 said:


> I'll bet whoever made it up was born in March.



Or maybe August or December?


----------



## vadsy

is April the Hugh Jackman version or the zoo version?


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> Not really bored. I just respond to any meaningless post quoting me with something equally meaningless.



No, you just avoided admitting your hypocrisy. Politics is fine so long as you agree with what is being said (ie. praise for little Justine and his merry band of incompetents), but should be banished if you disagree with what is being said. You and your ilk are very transparent.


----------



## Milkman

colchar said:


> No, you just avoided admitting your hypocrisy. Politics is fine so long as you agree with what is being said (ie. praise for little Justine and his merry band of incompetents), but should be banished if you disagree with what is being said. You and your ilk are very transparent.


And your condescending attitude is well known here. Anyone disagrees with you and you go into attack mode. Frankly if you're an educator I pity your students.


----------



## colchar

GuitarsCanada said:


> China, North Korea, Iran and India are clearly lying. Might be more



So is Turkmenistan. Scroll down to the second story here:

COVIDIOTS-19: Mia Khalifa is the hero we need right now


----------



## allthumbs56

GuitarsCanada said:


> Niagara Region has consistently lied and withheld information. Finally, due to outraged citizens and cases leaking out via social media, they have decided to start releasing more information. Too late now.


Info in our area is very hard to find. Ontario.ca was providing twice-daily updates by region but is not doing that any longer. The Standard released an update at noon today - the first since Monday I think.

** edit ** Imagine what it must have been like during WWII. News was pretty old by the time you got it, was heavily censored and full of propaganda.


----------



## allthumbs56

Milkman said:


> Or maybe August or December?


I don't want to be an Oompa Loompa is all


----------



## Milkman

allthumbs56 said:


> I don't want to be an Oompa Loompa is all


Well, she wasn't exactly my dream girl, but if I come out of this looking like Wonder Woman I won't be all that disappointed.


----------



## allthumbs56

Milkman said:


> Well, she wasn't exactly my dream girl, but if I come out of this looking like Wonder Woman I won't be all that disappointed.


If you come out of this looking like either Wonder Woman you'll have to beat the neighbourhood boys off with a stick.


----------



## Milkman

allthumbs56 said:


> If you come out of this looking like either Wonder Woman you'll have to beat the neighbourhood boys off with a stick.



LMAO, I won't be beating off any boys, thanks.


----------



## Eric Reesor

mturk said:


> My guess is that if there's a problem they'll be bailed out like in 2008 with more money borrowed from ........ the Central Bank!
> It just means more debt that can never be repaid but keeps the house of cards standing.


One way to look at the problem. However since when has a non violent state of war against a disease not stimulated an economy? Printing or creating debt has never been the problem. The national debt of the US is an imaginary number. The problems have always been with the conflict unrestrained human greed or what is now called inflation creates after the printing. Since Roman times war was the only true currency of the state and was undertaken frequently to justify the stamping and spending of money. Rome had troubles with real inflation and the only people it pissed off were the rich certainly not the lower classes.

Contrary to the Wall Street "me" generation belief, greed and a destructive ever expanding economy of production "assets" is not good. It is certainly no longer in our "enlightened self interest" Covid is kicking this nonsense into the dust where it belongs. The knee jerk reactions of the stock markets prove that some very serious rethinking of how we deal with each other ethically in terms of trade and financials must change and very soon. Funny but the indigenous peoples of the West knew this and held potlatches to help alleviate the problems of having an excess of goods. We in our economic wisdom or perhaps stupidity outlawed the practice after it started to involve British minted crown currencies the people were very slowly starting to acquire.

Today I took comfort in re reading the letters of Seneca on the perils of anger, greed and avarice. The insights of the past are as valid today as ever, it is folly to forget them and then wind up believing that any currency is of such importance that the world will come to an end if it is not squirreled away and saved as a means to increase the personal, national and international coffers.

A "war" against this virus can stimulate an economy of sharing in ways which might be very surprising. The second world war certainly did not harm the manufacturing base of North America, the fact is that it boosted the US and Canada to economic heights. We boomers benefited from it enormously, for quite a while. The US even managed to put humans on the moon during an enormous spending spree in the guise of blindly fighting the spread of an ideology in SouthEast Asia which we deemed to be evil and dangerous to our economy.
In this new conflict with a disease the poor may indeed fair much better than the extremely rich who by and large rely very heavily on services from others for everything in life. Remember how pathetic were the last day of Howard Hughes?

Now we are confronted with the fact that a real military conflict could easily become much more deadly than all diseases combined. Is it not worth amping up our spending and fighting diseases cooperatively internationally rather than living in suspicion of our appointed enemies and eventually fighting each other again in wars that certainly cannot be won by anyone?

My dream is that we can also begin to heal some of the damage we have done to our ecology at the same time if we finally learn to cooperate with each other as a species and truly help ourselves to advance as rational beings. The pillaging economy of real war whether in trade or military is no longer a viable solution to all our problems existing together on this planet.

You may say I'm a dreamer;
But I'm not the only one.

Peace

Eric


----------



## Ship of fools

No, you just avoided admitting your hypocrisy. Politics is fine so long as you agree with what is being said (ie. praise for little Justine and his merry band of incompetents), but should be banished if you disagree with what is being said. You and your ilk are very transparent.

colchar, 24 min

Isn't that like the kettle calling the kettle a different colour. I have my doubts that he is an educator. His mind is so closed that it is his way or the highway and nothing in between.
And as an educator shouldn't he come up with solutions instead of attacks. No I know of no other teacher who is like him but every once in a while ( and only once in a while ) he does say something almost brilliant.


----------



## Milkman

Ship of fools said:


> No, you just avoided admitting your hypocrisy. Politics is fine so long as you agree with what is being said (ie. praise for little Justine and his merry band of incompetents), but should be banished if you disagree with what is being said. You and your ilk are very transparent.
> 
> colchar, 24 min
> 
> Isn't that like the kettle calling the kettle a different colour. I have my doubts that he is an educator. His mind is so closed that it is his way or the highway and nothing in between.
> And as an educator shouldn't he come up with solutions instead of attacks. No I know of no other teacher who is like him but every once in a while ( and only once in a while ) he does say something almost brilliant.


I do not question his intelligence, only his approach.


----------



## Ship of fools

Oh Eric you are a dreamer dang I miss living on the island but its so freakin expensive there now. Should have bough my place in James Bay or Saanich before it went crazy.


----------



## allthumbs56

Milkman said:


> LMAO, I won't be beating off any boys, thanks.


Listen, you end up looking like Wonder Woman and I'll come paint your post myself


----------



## Ship of fools

But his approach is his intelligence.


----------



## Ship of fools

Oh my watch out milkman that outfit maybe just a tad tight. I learnt something today it is not Covid -19 that kills you but it seems most are dying from blood clots. Which were caused by the lungs becoming stiffer almost like fibrosis in character.


----------



## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> Well, she wasn't exactly my dream girl, but if I come out of this looking like Wonder Woman I won't be all that disappointed.


Others might be when they find out. What would you do with all that hair?








From what I understand Wonder Woman was an Amazon.....didn't they cut off a boob to make it easier to fight?


----------



## Jim DaddyO




----------



## allthumbs56

Just topped a million .................................... fug

Coronavirus Update (Live): 1,001,958 Cases and 51,432 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer


----------



## vadsy




----------



## Eric Reesor

Ship of fools said:


> Oh Eric you are a dreamer dang I miss living on the island but its so freakin expensive there now. Should have bough my place in James Bay or Saanich before it went crazy.


I do understand what happened to Seneca and why. Nero essentially ordered him to f' off and die. Such is the problem with advocating moderation, social justice and any concept that gets in the way of a society based upon gain purely for the sake of personal greed.


----------



## Electraglide

Ship of fools said:


> Oh my watch out milkman that outfit maybe just a tad tight. I learnt something today it is not Covid -19 that kills you but it seems most are dying from blood clots. Which were caused by the lungs becoming stiffer almost like fibrosis in character.


Depending on how bad it is you can live fairly well with fibrosis. Can't run as fast and a heavy duty quicky is out of the question but you can get by. Tight things are out too.


----------



## keto

allthumbs56 said:


> Just topped a million .................................... fug
> 
> Coronavirus Update (Live): 1,001,958 Cases and 51,432 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer



I don't know why you or anybody would put any weight into reported cases. So many untested cases have come and gone (and exist today), the actual number is many times larger. I guessed yesterday at 4-5X, someone else said 10X, which I don't have a lot of problem believing.


----------



## allthumbs56

Just to put it in perspective, this is how SARS ended up. Country, Cases, Deaths, % Fatal.


Probable cases of SARS by country or region,
1 November 2002 – 31 July 2003[23]
*Country or region* *Cases* *Deaths* *Fatality (%)
*
China[a] 5,327 349 6.6
Hong Kong 1,755 299 17.0
Taiwan* 346 73[24][25] 21.1
Canada 251 43 17.1
Singapore 238 33 13.9
Vietnam 63 5 7.9
United States 27 0 0
Philippines 14 2 14.3
Thailand 9 2 22.2
Germany 9 0 0
Mongolia 9 0 0
France 7 1 14.3
Australia 6 0 0
Malaysia 5 2 40.0
Sweden 5 0 0
United Kingdom 4 0 0
Italy 4 0 0
India 3 0 0
South Korea 3 0 0
Indonesia 2 0 0
South Africa 1 1 100.0
Kuwait 1 0 0
Ireland 1 0 0
Macau 1 0 0
New Zealand 1 0 0
Romania 1 0 0
Russia 1 0 0
Spain 1 0 0
Switzerland 1 0 0
Total excluding China[a] 2,769 454 16.4
Total (29 territories) 8,096 774 9.6
*
17 years later there is no vaxxine and no cure. Total of 8,422 cases worldwide. 774 deaths.

Got everybody's attention?

Wash your hands, friends.


----------



## keto

Spies, hijacks and export bans: the global battle for coronavirus equipment


----------



## allthumbs56

keto said:


> Spies, hijacks and export bans: the global battle for coronavirus equipment


_"The masks were on a plane at Shanghai airport that was ready to take off when the US buyers turned up and offered three times what their French counterparts were paying.

“On the tarmac, they arrive, get the cash out … so we really have to fight,” he told RTL radio."_​
On the tarmac? Makes it sound like they handed cash and a new flight plan to the pilot.


----------



## tomee2

vadsy said:


> They’ve been out for a while. I read this morning the doctor scientist heading this thing up for Trump is having to beef up security because death threats


I’m not on Facebook, but I do look at YouTube. Usually Johan Segeborn, DrMix, and a bit of Harry’s Garage. Lately, some news casts. I’m stunned at the comments from some people ... they are out of this world, like the whole thing is made up, there are no sick people, the people you see sick are paid actors, etc... yikes. The Sandyhook didn’t happen types. I suspect that’s where this Crazy Train driver is coming from. Lunatic Fringe, we all know you’re out there...
(I miss the 80s...)


----------



## Distortion

allthumbs56 said:


> Info in our area is very hard to find.


No Watch gov. Cuomo daily press release followed by Erie County. Then Watch Doug Ford press release. They pull no punches and if more people watched it they would be doing what is asked of them.Very Sobering facts on what has happened and what is to come. Buffalo is starting to take off and they are far less dense population wise than the GTHA.


----------



## laristotle

allthumbs56 said:


> Makes it sound like they handed cash and a new flight plan to the pilot.


Works in the movies.


----------



## jb welder

vadsy said:


>


Thanks for the PSA. Let me return the favour.


----------



## colchar

A bit long, but a huge difference from the performance pieces coming out of Ottawa each day:







And at least Ontario is going to release the modelling that others are refusing to release.


----------



## 10409

Is that a tall door or is our premier 4’7


----------



## 10409

I sound like that when I read kids books that require more page flipping than reading. I wonder if they were only giving him 5 words at a time on the TelePrompter with the little bouncy ball that tracks the syllables


----------



## Eric Reesor

There are great people everywhere in our country, small towns, big cities. I cannot blame politicians of any stripe for the spread of this virus. We are at war against a very real pestilence which can if ignored do great damage to our spirit as a peoples. How soon we forget our greatest strengths which are always rooted in human kindness under adversity. I have worked many jobs in my life but the one that I remember influencing me the most was on a five man initial attack fire crew in Northern Ontario during a horrendous fire season that almost took out towns. This tune came over the extra portable am radio we had and we all stopped and listened and then went back to work like dogs. We all knew that beyond a shadow of a doubt that our actions could save lives. We do have much to be proud of as Canadians and we must never forget how we got that way.


----------



## laristotle

Beer crisis averted as Ontario retailer set to restart bottle recycling program

_The Beer Store, however, will only accept empty returns at 71 of its 450 stores across the province_


----------



## Milkman

That song clip was awesome.

I really enjoyed it.

thanks


----------



## laristotle

Chinese county back under lockdown after coronavirus cases re-emerge

_The move came after a woman was infected after she visited a doctor who carried the virus but showed no signs of being sick_


----------



## vadsy

mike_oxbig said:


> Is that a tall door or is our premier 4’7


is it too soon for the Napoleon comparisons?


----------



## mhammer

Eric Reesor said:


> There are great people everywhere in our country, small towns, big cities. I cannot blame politicians of any stripe for the spread of this virus. We are at war against a very real pestilence which can if ignored do great damage to our spirit as a peoples. How soon we forget our greatest strengths which are always rooted in human kindness under adversity. I have worked many jobs in my life but the one that I remember influencing me the most was on a five man initial attack fire crew in Northern Ontario during a horrendous fire season that almost took out towns. This tune came over the extra portable am radio we had and we all stopped and listened and then went back to work like dogs. We all knew that beyond a shadow of a doubt that our actions could save lives. We do have much to be proud of as Canadians and we must never forget how we got that way.


I have to shake my head at the statement by the governor of Georgia who explained his lack of state-wide stay-inside order by stating that he had just learned in the last 24 hrs ( i.e., yesterday) that the virus could be spread by someone who is not symptomatic. When you hear something is "going around", pretty much the first thing you ask is how you might catch it and whether you can catch it from someone even though they don't appear sick.

I agree that many times you can't blame politicians of any stripe for the spread of the virus. But sometimes, you can.


----------



## spacebard

mike_oxbig said:


> Is that a tall door or is our premier 4’7


A hobbit?


----------



## Distortion

mike_oxbig said:


> I sound like that when I read kids books that require more page flipping than reading. I wonder if they were only giving him 5 words at a time on the TelePrompter with the little bouncy ball that tracks the syllables


I still think he would wipe the floor with you


----------



## tomee2

laristotle said:


> Beer crisis averted as Ontario retailer set to restart bottle recycling program
> 
> _The Beer Store, however, will only accept empty returns at 71 of its 450 stores across the province_


Why not forget about getting back the bottles for a few weeks and put the beer into cans??


----------



## bolero

so....what exactly was the WHO, before we actually needed them?

was it like a golf country club? where they got together for coffee and discussed what they did on their holidays?

or a bunch of corporate title-seekers, with another acronym to add after their MBA etc, along with a nice payment for their appointment?

why is it that a bunch of non-qualified guitar players on some random forum, are more up-to-date on what the hell is going on, and how to safeguard oneself, in a dire time of World Health Crisis, than the World Health Organization?

am I the only person who is wondering what the fuck is going on with these guys?


----------



## Jim DaddyO

bolero said:


> what exactly was the WHO


Like many things, it started as a really good thing, doing things like the war on small pox, TB, etc. Then slowly over time it became infected with the political good ole boys and powers that be playing games. 

Established in 1948 as the World Health Assembly. They took over what was the League of Nations Health Organization.

The first predecessors of WHO was The International Sanitary Conferences in June 1851. They combatted Yellow fever, cholera, and bubonic plague. In 1892 in the 7th of 14 conferences, they started to become effective with actions that started to work. Vaccines and innoculations etc. They were absorbed by the UN after WWll.


----------



## Wardo

mhammer said:


> I agree that many times you can't blame politicians of any stripe for the spread of the virus. But sometimes, you can.


Pretty much but it seemed obvious to me way back what needed to be done however the governments here, and particularly the federal government, dropped the ball big time on this due to to PC nonsense and failure to act quickly. But they know no other way so hardly surprising. Wrong people in the wrong place at the wrong time.


----------



## Jim DaddyO




----------



## Dorian2

^^ That newscaster's pretty sassy!


----------



## 10409

Distortion said:


> I still think he would wipe the floor with you


Definitely, I’m 6’3 180. Bowling ball vs pin.


----------



## vadsy




----------



## 10409

Stay where you’re at until I come where you’re to


----------



## vadsy




----------



## player99

vadsy said:


>


Huh. I always imagined you look more like this:


----------



## vadsy

close. Less breasts and lipstick. chick in your post wouldn’t make it out of Electriglides without a few well placed pinches

edit. My bangs are nicer


----------



## Electraglide

Looks like oil prices are going up. WCS seems to have jumped $5.01.


----------



## player99

vadsy said:


> My bangs are nicer


Ninja edit.


----------



## Milkman

Well, I've been a good boy and I intend to keep vigilant and do my best to avoid this virus until such time (at least) as they develop better treatments, and hopefully until after the peak passes so I'm not waiting to die in a hallway somewhere.

But, I think it's still ok to drive your car correct?

I'm taking my summer car out of the bat cave for the season today.

No, it's not a split window coupe or a Ferrari or Lambo, but it's a car I really love to drive and it honestly makes me smile when I get behind the wheel.

I always put in in a Quonset hut with a poly floor (to avoid lot rot) in October and connect a trickle charger to it. A little fuel stabilizer in the tank (which they tell me isn't really necessary as I only store it for six months at a stretch) and off to sleep she goes.

Past years it started up just as if I had put it away the night before, but this time my charger got unplugged somehow so I had to plug it in for a few hours to get it started. It must have kept enough charge to keep my memory settings and all that.

So I left the charger on over night and I'll asses the battery this morning. If I need a new one I guess I'll suck that up. Hopefully I didn't kill this one.

Anyway, yeah it's a much needed distraction in a terrible time.

And the loyal and trusty Accord Crosstour goes into storage for summer.

Woo hoo!!!


----------



## mhammer

Curious. Anyone here living in the Outaouais who has tried to cross the river to the "other" province and been stopped by police, either entering or returning?


----------



## 10409

4 min drive from my house. Luckily not the closest shoppers, we were at the other one in that window for sure. Starting to feel like it’s coming is inevitable

Not my email at the bottom, I stole it from a fb group post


----------



## bolero

more WHO fail:

Taiwan: WHO Failed to Heed Warning of Coronavirus Human-to-Human Transmission | National Review

"Taiwanese health officials have accused the World Health Organization of failing to communicate the country’s* warning in December *regarding possible human-to-human transmission of the Wuhan coronavirus"

and possibly a reason?

"China forbids international organizations of which it is a member, such as the WHO, from recognizing Taiwan as a member in its own right."

and a vague response, that doesn't explain anything, really:

Responding to the accusations, the WHO said it needed to “hold frank and open discussions on sometimes sensitive issues” which “requires that we respect the confidentiality of such communications.”


----------



## allthumbs56

mike_oxbig said:


> Starting to feel like it’s coming is inevitable


Like being the Von Trapp family hiding behind the tombstone as the Nazi virus plays it's flashlight from one stone to the next, closer and closer...........


----------



## bolero

ps Taiwan probably has had the best response, globally, to the outbreak


----------



## Frenchy99

mhammer said:


> Curious. Anyone here living in the Outaouais who has tried to cross the river to the "other" province and been stopped by police, either entering or returning?


Quebec is stopping all crossings from major areas to help stop the spread. no mention about the Ottawa/Gatineau area ...


----------



## bolero

Jim DaddyO said:


>


 wow, impressive journalism

why can't we get news coverage like that in Canada?


----------



## keto

bolero said:


> wow, impressive journalism
> 
> why can't we get news coverage like that in Canada?


‘Shocking’ and ‘indefensible’: Feds should release national COVID-19 modelling information, experts say

“I’ll give you examples of two countries not exactly celebrated for their transparency that have released their COVID-19 models. One is Singapore and the other is Iran,” said Attaran. “In transparency and accountability, we are presently behind Iran. Let that sink in.”


----------



## ZeroGravity

mhammer said:


> Curious. Anyone here living in the Outaouais who has tried to cross the river to the "other" province and been stopped by police, either entering or returning?


I haven't personally, but someone posted on Reddit this morning a picture of the Portage Bridge with no signs of police roadblock as of about 08:30.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

mike_oxbig said:


> 4 min drive from my house. Luckily not the closest shoppers, we were at the other one in that window for sure. Starting to feel like it’s coming is inevitable
> 
> Not my email at the bottom, I stole it from a fb group post


There is only one way to protect yourself. Stay at home as much as possible. When you go out mask up and glove up. That is the new reality


----------



## Milkman

keto said:


> ‘Shocking’ and ‘indefensible’: Feds should release national COVID-19 modelling information, experts say
> 
> “I’ll give you examples of two countries not exactly celebrated for their transparency that have released their COVID-19 models. One is Singapore and the other is Iran,” said Attaran. “In transparency and accountability, we are presently behind Iran. Let that sink in.”



Yeah I guess that explains those mass graves between Hamilton and Brantford.

Iran...? Just because they've released modelling data doesn't mean they haven't screwed with it and concealed a much more severe problem.


----------



## davetcan

Canada’s public data on COVID-19 is (mostly) a mess. Here’s how to find the useful info


----------



## keto

GuitarsCanada said:


> There is only one way to protect yourself. Stay at home as much as possible. When you go out mask up and glove up. That is the new reality


Something for the eyes too. Am just reading that coughs and sneezes a) can travel 6 meters and b) droplets can stay in the air for 10 minutes.


----------



## keto

never mind


----------



## sulphur

Yet another reason that we should be self sufficient. That's our cordial neighbours.

Trump asks medical supply firm 3M to stop selling N95 respirators to Canada


----------



## Electraglide

keto said:


> Something for the eyes too. Am just reading that coughs and sneezes a) can travel 6 meters and b) droplets can stay in the air for 10 minutes.


This one says they can stay in the air from seconds to weeks and travel up to 100 MPH. Be careful when you flush the toilet too. 
How Far Can A Sneeze Spread Germs?


----------



## guitarman2

Electraglide said:


> This one says they can stay in the air from seconds to weeks and travel up to 100 MPH. Be careful when you flush the toilet too.
> *How Far Can A Sneeze Spread Germs?*



I'm pretty sure some of my sneezes can out drive me off the tee.


----------



## Adcandour

Fucking Chinese - am I right?

I can be racist, because, according to my religion, we are all one. Feel free to put that on a t-shirt.

Anyway, I figure the 184th page is a good time to chime in. 

The real reason I'm here - anyone want to trade some P100 full face respirators for some guitar gear, some half masks maybe? I have so many, I'm using them on my elbows, shoulders and nuts. I'm just joshing (I don't need your gear - unless you have a boss katana). Who is the member with the fucked up pneumonia lungs (I can't remember where I saw it in this thread)? I had double pneumonia - and my lungs don't function correctly, so in honour of solidarity, I'll give you a mask if I don't have to go to the post office... The P100s I use at work have cartridges perfect for the virus. My smaller cartridges can stop aerosols, so I'm thinking since the vira is likely suspended in some form of human juice, they should be good.

Unfortunately, my girlfriend has a compromised immune system (small price to pay for being so f'king hot - don't make me post a pic), so I've had to gear up well when I do decide to leave. I'm also thinking that eye protection is absolutely necessary, if you ask me...anyone asking? Probs not.

I actually had a guy guffaw at me for being geared up. I was fuming, a bit embarrassed, and now even more uncomfortable. Admittedly, I looked like an absolute idiot, but if my girlfriend gets sick, it's 100% on me (she doesn't leave the resort - ever). I joke, even though it's really not a joking matter (it has been difficult, needless to say). I daydreamed of confronting the ******* fuck, getting him in the tightest ju-jitsu hold I could muster, so I could gob in his fucking mouth (a crunchy one drawn from deep within the sinuses). And, just before he drifts into a comfy sleep, whisper, "Now both of us have it, dicknose". I find solace in these daydreams.

Does anyone see an issue with ordering in food? Any precautions? Our beach club is now opening due to some poll the resort ran, so the menu items are being delivered. Is it okay to wash steak?

Ok, I'm out - super busy doing nothing at the moment.

PS - Any of you assholes actually getting better at guitar now that you're stuck at home with your annoying wives?


----------



## allthumbs56

Adcandour said:


> Fucking Chinese - am I right?
> 
> I can be racist, because, according to my religion, we are all one. Feel free to put that on a t-shirt.
> 
> Anyway, I figure the 184th page is a good time to chime in.
> 
> The real reason I'm here - anyone want to trade some P100 full face respirators for some guitar gear, some half masks maybe? I have so many, I'm using them on my elbows, shoulders and nuts. I'm just joshing (I don't need your gear - unless you have a boss katana). Who is the member with the fucked up pneumonia lungs (I can't remember where I saw it in this thread)? I had double pneumonia - and my lungs don't function correctly, so in honour of solidarity, I'll give you a mask if I don't have to go to the post office... The P100s I use at work have cartridges perfect for the virus. My smaller cartridges can stop aerosols, so I'm thinking since the vira is likely suspended in some form of human juice, they should be good.
> 
> Unfortunately, my girlfriend has a compromised immune system (small price to pay for being so f'king hot - don't make me post a pic), so I've had to gear up well when I do decide to leave. I'm also thinking that eye protection is absolutely necessary, if you ask me...anyone asking? Probs not.
> 
> I actually had a guy guffaw at me for being geared up. I was fuming, a bit embarrassed, and now even more uncomfortable. Admittedly, I looked like an absolute idiot, but if my girlfriend gets sick, it's 100% on me (she doesn't leave the resort - ever). I joke, even though it's really not a joking matter (it has been difficult, needless to say). I daydreamed of confronting the ******* fuck, getting him in the tightest ju-jitsu hold I could muster, so I could gob in his fucking mouth (a crunchy one drawn from deep within the sinuses). And, just before he drifts into a comfy sleep, whisper, "Now both of us have it, dicknose". I find solace in these daydreams.
> 
> Does anyone see an issue with ordering in food? Any precautions? Our beach club is now opening due to some poll the resort ran, so the menu items are being delivered. Is it okay to wash steak?
> 
> Ok, I'm out - super busy doing nothing at the moment.
> 
> PS - Any of you assholes actually getting better at guitar now that you're stuck at home with your annoying wives?


Like a slap upside the head!


----------



## vadsy

Adcandour said:


> Fucking Chinese - am I right?
> 
> I can be racist, because, according to my religion, we are all one. Feel free to put that on a t-shirt.
> 
> Anyway, I figure the 184th page is a good time to chime in.
> 
> The real reason I'm here - anyone want to trade some P100 full face respirators for some guitar gear, some half masks maybe? I have so many, I'm using them on my elbows, shoulders and nuts. I'm just joshing (I don't need your gear - unless you have a boss katana). Who is the member with the fucked up pneumonia lungs (I can't remember where I saw it in this thread)? I had double pneumonia - and my lungs don't function correctly, so in honour of solidarity, I'll give you a mask if I don't have to go to the post office... The P100s I use at work have cartridges perfect for the virus. My smaller cartridges can stop aerosols, so I'm thinking since the vira is likely suspended in some form of human juice, they should be good.
> 
> Unfortunately, my girlfriend has a compromised immune system (small price to pay for being so f'king hot - don't make me post a pic), so I've had to gear up well when I do decide to leave. I'm also thinking that eye protection is absolutely necessary, if you ask me...anyone asking? Probs not.
> 
> I actually had a guy guffaw at me for being geared up. I was fuming, a bit embarrassed, and now even more uncomfortable. Admittedly, I looked like an absolute idiot, but if my girlfriend gets sick, it's 100% on me (she doesn't leave the resort - ever). I joke, even though it's really not a joking matter (it has been difficult, needless to say). I daydreamed of confronting the ******* fuck, getting him in the tightest ju-jitsu hold I could muster, so I could gob in his fucking mouth (a crunchy one drawn from deep within the sinuses). And, just before he drifts into a comfy sleep, whisper, "Now both of us have it, dicknose". I find solace in these daydreams.
> 
> Does anyone see an issue with ordering in food? Any precautions? Our beach club is now opening due to some poll the resort ran, so the menu items are being delivered. Is it okay to wash steak?
> 
> Ok, I'm out - super busy doing nothing at the moment.
> 
> PS - Any of you assholes actually getting better at guitar now that you're stuck at home with your annoying wives?


Katana for the nut mask? You in?


----------



## keto

Expand quote for replies.



Adcandour said:


> Fucking Chinese - am I right?
> 
> I can be racist, because, according to my religion, we are all one. Feel free to put that on a t-shirt.
> 
> Anyway, I figure the 184th page is a good time to chime in.
> 
> The real reason I'm here - anyone want to trade some P100 full face respirators for some guitar gear, some half masks maybe? I have so many, I'm using them on my elbows, shoulders and nuts. I'm just joshing (I don't need your gear - unless you have a boss katana). Who is the member with the fucked up pneumonia lungs (I can't remember where I saw it in this thread)? I had double pneumonia - and my lungs don't function correctly, so in honour of solidarity, I'll give you a mask if I don't have to go to the post office... The P100s I use at work have cartridges perfect for the virus. My smaller cartridges can stop aerosols, so I'm thinking since the vira is likely suspended in some form of human juice, they should be good.
> 
> @Ship of fools west coast, how's your throwing arm?
> 
> Unfortunately, my girlfriend has a compromised immune system (small price to pay for being so f'king hot - don't make me post a pic), so I've had to gear up well when I do decide to leave. I'm also thinking that eye protection is absolutely necessary, if you ask me...anyone asking? Probs not.
> 
> Seriously? Pics or GTFO. Agree on eyes, been preaching that here and to my family
> 
> I actually had a guy guffaw at me for being geared up. I was fuming, a bit embarrassed, and now even more uncomfortable. Admittedly, I looked like an absolute idiot, but if my girlfriend gets sick, it's 100% on me (she doesn't leave the resort - ever). I joke, even though it's really not a joking matter (it has been difficult, needless to say). I daydreamed of confronting the ******* fuck, getting him in the tightest ju-jitsu hold I could muster, so I could gob in his fucking mouth (a crunchy one drawn from deep within the sinuses). And, just before he drifts into a comfy sleep, whisper, "Now both of us have it, dicknose". I find solace in these daydreams.
> 
> I'm in isolation for another 6 days, but when I hit the grocery store I'ma look like I'm going for a spacewalk. DNGAF, also high risk.
> 
> Does anyone see an issue with ordering in food? Any precautions? Our beach club is now opening due to some poll the resort ran, so the menu items are being delivered. Is it okay to wash steak?
> 
> Food out of delivery container into onto your own. All the food. Throw used container into the hallway/street for someone else to deal with. Wash hands. Enjoy.
> 
> Ok, I'm out - super busy doing nothing at the moment.
> 
> PS - Any of you assholes actually getting better at guitar now that you're stuck at home with your annoying wives?
> 
> I might have actually gone from a 1.5/10 to a 2


----------



## butterknucket




----------



## BlueRocker

butterknucket said:


>


The crazy starts at 3:20


----------



## laristotle

Adcandour said:


> unless you have a boss katana


FS: - Katana 100 combo + GA-FC controller


----------



## GuitarsCanada

I think these numbers are being very conservative. They are also predicting that this will last for 2 years

COVID-19 could kill 3,000 to 15,000 people in Ontario, provincial modelling shows | CBC News


----------



## Distortion

GuitarsCanada said:


> I think these numbers are being very conservative. They are also predicting that this will last for 2 years


Very conservative. A fairy tail. NY state has 3000 deaths already at 19.5 million people. Ontario has 14.5 million people.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Distortion said:


> Very conservative. A fairy tail. NY state has 3000 deaths already at 19.5 million people. Ontario has 14.5 million people.


My son lives in downtown Toronto. He has been locked in his apartment now for going on 3 weeks. He only goes out to take the dog for a piss or to get essentials as needed. However, he tells me that when he does have to go out that there are still thousands of people wandering around the streets.


----------



## allthumbs56

GuitarsCanada said:


> I think these numbers are being very conservative. They are also predicting that this will last for 2 years
> 
> COVID-19 could kill 3,000 to 15,000 people in Ontario, provincial modelling shows | CBC News


They are exactly what they are. Bear in mind that the same guys that put these kinds of numbers together also put out the numbers that project our climate will be irreversibly destroyed in 12 years. However, like climate numbers, in the very least it gives us something to measure against and (I assume) it's the same (and best available) projections that our decision makers are using. 

I think it means something to show that, without measures, the total deaths could be 100,000 and 3,000 to 15,000 with. Kinda makes you see why it's worth it.


----------



## Milkman

Distortion said:


> Very conservative. A fairy tail. NY state has 3000 deaths already at 19.5 million people. Ontario has 14.5 million people.



NY State is NY State and Ontario is Ontario.

Apples and oranges in spite of our proximity.

I agree the Ontario numbers may be understated or underestimated but I'm not necessarily expecting Ontario to have the same level of damage as NY State.

There are lots of statistics where Ontario is not even close to NY State.

We'll see.


----------



## tomee2

Distortion said:


> Very conservative. A fairy tail. NY state has 3000 deaths already at 19.5 million people. Ontario has 14.5 million people.


Density will play a role, so if we all stay home and wash our hands we might end up at half their number. Who knows... but I wouldn't want to be living in a condo in toronto right now.


----------



## Distortion

_I wonder how long I could stay alive with a small trailer parked off some logging road north of Cochrane._


----------



## Milkman

BlueRocker said:


> The crazy starts at 3:20



Crazy is right, but not so far from what many people believe.


----------



## Dorian2

Distortion said:


> _I wonder how long I could stay alive with a small trailer parked off some logging road north of Cochrane._


Probably quite well if supplied appropriately.


----------



## vadsy

Distortion said:


> _I wonder how long I could stay alive with a small trailer parked off some logging road north of Cochrane._


keep rolling. Northern BC ...,


----------



## Electraglide

Distortion said:


> _I wonder how long I could stay alive with a small trailer parked off some logging road north of Cochrane._


I can get you one North of Prince George. Comes with food delivery as long as you can pay. Nice and quiet....just don’t tell them you’re from Ont.


----------



## torndownunit

GuitarsCanada said:


> My son lives in downtown Toronto. He has been locked in his apartment now for going on 3 weeks. He only goes out to take the dog for a piss or to get essentials as needed. However, he tells me that when he does have to go out that there are still thousands of people wandering around the streets.


I live on one of the nicer streets in my town, and you would swear the streets here have turned into a public park. I can look out anytime of day and there are people, and at certain times a couple of dozen just in the area around my place. And this is when the weather is just semi-nice. When it get's a bit warmer, it's going to be a mess.


----------



## torndownunit

Edit posts timing out again. Double post.


----------



## Distortion

Electraglide said:


> I can get you one North of Prince George. Comes with food delivery as long as you can pay. Nice and quiet....just don’t tell them you’re from Ont.


 I have relatives in Prince George and Ft. ST John but those grizzly's would probably get me. Gonna pass.


----------



## Milkman

torndownunit said:


> I live on one of the nicer streets in my town, and you would swear the streets here have turned into a public park. I can look out anytime of day and there are people, and at certain times a couple of dozen just in the area around my place. And this is when the weather is just semi-nice. When it get's a bit warmer, it's going to be a mess.



We're a fairly small city (around 100K). I'm really not seeing any such behavior, but then again, I'm staying home.

Certainly there have been no groups of people passing by the house.

There's more car traffic than I would expect but still less than normal.


----------



## mhammer

We have lots and lots of folks in our neighbourhood going out for walks, many but not all of them with dogs. In some cases, they are young families with a mom and dad shepherding a couple of kids. We've gone out for a couple of walks ourselves. But the rule of thumb is that you give other people a wide berth. Happily, living on a crescent with no sidewalks makes that easy to do.


----------



## mhammer

Between Ellis Marsalis, Bucky Pizzarelli, Bill Withers, Adam Schlesinger, and doubtless more to come, the In Memorium segment on next year's Grammys is going to be uncomfortably long.


----------



## torndownunit

mhammer said:


> We have lots and lots of folks in our neighbourhood going out for walks, many but not all of them with dogs. In some cases, they are young families with a mom and dad shepherding a couple of kids. We've gone out for a couple of walks ourselves. But the rule of thumb is that you give other people a wide berth. Happily, living on a crescent with no sidewalks makes that easy to do.


I am not really sure why my street has become such a walking destination, but there's actually enough people when the weather's nice that distancing would be hard. It's a crazy influx of people. And yes, almost all have pets and kids.


----------



## Chito

torndownunit said:


> I am not really sure why my street has become such a walking destination, but there's actually enough people when the weather's nice that distancing would be hard. It's a crazy influx of people. And yes, almost all have pets and kids.


That is why the idea of a total lockdown is not too far fetched. If after being told that there could be 3,000 to 15,000 deaths in Ontario alone doesn't keep these people from physical distancing, the only way is to have a lockdown.


----------



## torndownunit

Chito said:


> That is why the idea of a total lockdown is not too far fetched. If after being told that there could be 3,000 to 15,000 deaths in Ontario alone doesn't keep these people from physical distancing, the only way is to have a lockdown.


I will be curious to see what happens here the next really warm day. Today's not that nice, and Ontario released both the virus projections and the new essential workers list today. I'll be curious if it has any effect on activities like this. I'll also be curious if the attempts to hoard elevate as well, from what I hear the stores in town are really busy today. It just be because it's a Friday.


----------



## allthumbs56

I can look out my front window and see teenagers playing basketball and otherwise chumming together. I don't think we can change/enforce that. Do you remember when you were a teenager?

Otherwise, I walk the dogs every evening. Pretty much every adult I come across maintains a healthy distance. 

I am still working in our small downtown. I walked to the bank at lunch. Physical distancing is not so much practiced in our downtown core. All of the pretty "streetscaping" makes it hard to maintain a distance with oncoming people and with a lot of businesses closed there is a higher percentage of people in the "who care a little less and/or don't follow the news" category on our downtown streets. They may actually feel a sense of power from this.


----------



## Dorian2

-6°C in Edmonton today and much the same for the weekend. I think it may be contributing to our numbers which are very reasonable considering. Wonder how much impact the climate and way of life in the area you live in affects the results and numbers. When I checked the temps in Italy and Spain a couple of weeks ago they were sitting around the 13°C range or so. Vancouver's around 7°C and expecting possible wet flurries. I'm hoping the weather has a bit of a damping effect for people that insist on going out too much.


----------



## torndownunit

allthumbs56 said:


> I am still working in our small downtown. I walked to the bank at lunch. Physical distancing is not so much practiced in our downtown core. All of the pretty "streetscaping" makes it hard to maintain a distance with oncoming people and with a lot of businesses closed there is a higher percentage of people in the "who care a little less and/or don't follow the news" category on our downtown streets. They may actually feel a sense of power from this.


I had to take a Facebook vacation because of this. So many people taking pride in being stupid. It really helped me thin out my friends list, even though I had always kept it lean. There's some people I know that left for vacations during the travel ban and we're proud of it that I don't really need in my life anymore.


----------



## keto

At what point, though, do we say it's OK for those who have had NO external contact, haven't been to the store, nobody in their house has left in 3 weeks, that it's OK for them to go congregate with others who have made the same committment?


----------



## torndownunit

keto said:


> At what point, though, do we say it's OK for those who have had NO external contact, haven't been to the store, nobody in their house has left in 3 weeks, that it's OK for them to go congregate with others who have made the same committment?


Other than the people on travel quarantine, I don't know a single person who isn't shopping for groceries once a week. And a huge chunk of my friends are essential works or have someone in their house who is. There's no one I know with zero contact. I won't be going near anyone until I build it's ok to, and I have been in isolation since the first travel advisory (the suggestion one, not the mandatory one). But I still grocery shop once a week because we have no delivery options here.


----------



## Budda

keto said:


> At what point, though, do we say it's OK for those who have had NO external contact, haven't been to the store, nobody in their house has left in 3 weeks, that it's OK for them to go congregate with others who have made the same committment?


But you cant prove they are truthful in their statement, so it's still a risk.


----------



## keto

torndownunit said:


> Other than the people on travel quarantine, I don't know a single person who isn't shopping for groceries once a week. And a huge chunk of my friends are essential works or have someone in their house who is. There's no one I know with zero contact. I won't be going near anyone until I build it's ok to, and I have been in isolation since the first travel advisory (the suggestion one, not the mandatory one).


My kids are having groceries delivered by online services, lots of people will be paying the associated premium to do that.



Budda said:


> But you cant prove they are truthful in their statement, so it's still a risk.


I get it. But at some point, we're going to have to have some trust, or society ain't gonna function.


----------



## Boogieman

bolero said:


> more WHO fail:
> 
> Taiwan: WHO Failed to Heed Warning of Coronavirus Human-to-Human Transmission | National Review
> 
> "Taiwanese health officials have accused the World Health Organization of failing to communicate the country’s* warning in December *regarding possible human-to-human transmission of the Wuhan coronavirus"
> 
> and possibly a reason?
> 
> "China forbids international organizations of which it is a member, such as the WHO, from recognizing Taiwan as a member in its own right."
> 
> and a vague response, that doesn't explain anything, really:
> 
> Responding to the accusations, the WHO said it needed to “hold frank and open discussions on sometimes sensitive issues” which “requires that we respect the confidentiality of such communications.”


WHO, more like WTF.

Google "Bruce Aylward WHO". This doctor is a senior advisor to WHO. Recently, when he was on a video interview with RTHK (the equivalentof TVO/PBS in Hong Kong), he cut off the video feed when he was asked about Taiwan's response measures to COVID-19.

Here are some news articles related to the interview:

Senior WHO adviser appears to dodge question on Taiwan's Covid-19 response

WHO Says It’s Working With Taiwan Experts After Video Goes Viral

WHO responds after video shows Canadian doctor dodging questions on Taiwan


The RTHK TV programme that featured the video interview. The programme is called "The Pulse" and it is in English:






For those who just want to watch the video interview, it starts at 16:38.


BTW, Dr. Bruce Aylward is Canadian.


----------



## torndownunit

keto said:


> My kids are having groceries delivered by online services, lots of people will be paying the associated premium to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> I get it. But at some point, we're going to have to have some trust, or society ain't gonna function.


I didn't say I am not using delivery services by some choice, I said my town doesn't offer them period. There are 5 chain stores including walmart, and they only have pickup (which is booked 2 1/2 weeks in advance right now). The people in this town are obviously requesting we get these services with what's going on, but right now there is zero option for contactless grocery shopping.

And the longer this goes on, the more issues society is going to have. People have to sacrifice now to have any chance of this going away. I can't control what other people do, but I will sure as hell do my part. When I am told that things can be relaxed, then I will relax. And, I am also high-risk so I take it seriously.


----------



## Eric Reesor

Distortion said:


> I have relatives in Prince George and Ft. ST John but those grizzly's would probably get me. Gonna pass.


The amount of road pizza created during the winter on all the roads south of Dawson Creek can keep you in meat just fine. Most you need is an axe and a swede saw to get big chunks of frozen moose and deer if you can get to it before the highway crews do. When spring finally opens up places like Moose Lake near Tumbler Ridge there are lots of good fish that is, if you have a little boat or even a float tube and fishing gear. Protein ain't a problem up there, just getting to it before mama bear can be a little dicey if you don't know their habits and habitat well. Later on there are still decent runs of good size grayling that take the fly like mad even in water that has limited visibility in rivers like the Halfway, the Graham and even the Peace and Parsnip itself if you know what you are doing. The Pine river systems not so much anymore though because it is has been pounded by everyone with a line and a hook. If you get to a starvation situation then black spruce cambium is a resource that has starch and some essential vitamins. When fireweed starts the shoots are a good salad veg and the list goes on and on if you know the ecology and what can be eaten and what should not. The same thing applies to most of Northern Canada if you know the terrain and ecology.


----------



## keto

Boogieman said:


> WHO, more like WTF.
> 
> Google "Bruce Aylward WHO". This doctor is a senior advisor to WHO. Recently, when he was on a video interview with RTHK (the equivalentof TVO/PBS in Hong Kong), he cut off the video feed when he was asked about Taiwan's response measures to COVID-19.
> 
> Here are some news articles related to the interview:
> 
> Senior WHO adviser appears to dodge question on Taiwan's Covid-19 response
> 
> WHO Says It’s Working With Taiwan Experts After Video Goes Viral
> 
> WHO responds after video shows Canadian doctor dodging questions on Taiwan
> 
> 
> The RTHK TV programme that featured the video interview. The programme is called "The Pulse" and it is in English:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those who just want to watch the video interview, it starts at 16:38.
> 
> 
> BTW, Dr. Bruce Aylward is Canadian.


Yeah this was all gone over some pages back. The main response was that he's a doctor, not a politician, and so wouldn't necessarily be expected to respond cogently. 

I'm not making him excuses, but it's not totally out there.


----------



## Wardo

A goose was makin a lot of noise today so I clocked the fucker with a fairway wood and the neighbor grabbed the god damn goose and ran inside with it; now he’s got something going in the smoker probably the fuckin goose.


----------



## keto

torndownunit said:


> I didn't say I am not using delivery services by some choice, I said my town doesn't offer them period. There are 5 chain stores including walmart, and they only have pickup (which is booked 2 1/2 weeks in advance right now). The people in this town are obviously requesting we get these services with what's going on, but right now there is zero option for contactless grocery shopping.
> 
> And the longer this goes on, the more issues society is going to have. People have to sacrifice now to have any chance of this going away. I can't control what other people do, but I will sure as hell do my part. When I am told that things can be relaxed, then I will relax. And, I am also high-risk so I take it seriously.


Easy, I wasn't accusing you of anything at all. I'm high risk too. Peace.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

keto said:


> At what point, though, do we say it's OK for those who have had NO external contact, haven't been to the store, nobody in their house has left in 3 weeks, that it's OK for them to go congregate with others who have made the same committment?


I would say roughly 2 years from now


----------



## torndownunit

keto said:


> Easy, I wasn't accusing you of anything at all. I'm high risk too. Peace.


I'm not upset possibly just exasperated a bit by all the stupidity going on in my town. It's not personal, it's just that when the "when" question pops up, it's scary on a level. There's a lot of people in for a long ride, and still so many who don't get that this is a big deal. So you just want those people to get it, and not see people asking "when" yet. We are just getting started.

And I'm not saying you are a person who doesn't get it, I understand that conversation point aspect of it.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Ontario to close cannabis stores, dubbing them 'non-essential' in updated emergency order - Article - BNN


----------



## Electraglide

Distortion said:


> I have relatives in Prince George and Ft. ST John but those grizzly's would probably get me. Gonna pass.


There are things NW of Cochrane on logging roads that make the PG Grizzly's look tame. 








on the other end of the scale being not quite human they could be ok.......nudge, nudge, wink, wink.


----------



## Electraglide

allthumbs56 said:


> I can look out my front window and see teenagers playing basketball and otherwise chumming together. I don't think we can change/enforce that. Do you remember when you were a teenager?
> 
> Otherwise, I walk the dogs every evening. Pretty much every adult I come across maintains a healthy distance.
> 
> I am still working in our small downtown. I walked to the bank at lunch. Physical distancing is not so much practiced in our downtown core. All of the pretty "streetscaping" makes it hard to maintain a distance with oncoming people and with a lot of businesses closed there is a higher percentage of people in the "who care a little less and/or don't follow the news" category on our downtown streets. They may actually feel a sense of power from this.


You mean homeless?


----------



## Electraglide

Eric Reesor said:


> The amount of road pizza created during the winter on all the roads south of Dawson Creek can keep you in meat just fine. Most you need is an axe and a swede saw to get big chunks of frozen moose and deer if you can get to it before the highway crews do. When spring finally opens up places like Moose Lake near Tumbler Ridge there are lots of good fish that is, if you have a little boat or even a float tube and fishing gear. Protein ain't a problem up there, just getting to it before mama bear can be a little dicey if you don't know their habits and habitat well. Later on there are still decent runs of good size grayling that take the fly like mad even in water that has limited visibility in rivers like the Halfway, the Graham and even the Peace and Parsnip itself if you know what you are doing. The Pine river systems not so much anymore though because it is has been pounded by everyone with a line and a hook. If you get to a starvation situation then black spruce cambium is a resource that has starch and some essential vitamins. When fireweed starts the shoots are a good salad veg and the list goes on and on if you know the ecology and what can be eaten and what should not. The same thing applies to most of Northern Canada if you know the terrain and ecology.


Just don't get lost and phoning search and rescue.....a lot of no service in that area and if you do get thru they probably won't be able to find you anyway. Better off to go around Ocean Falls, as long as you don't mind rain.


----------



## laristotle

Electraglide said:


> on the other end of the scale being not quite human they could be ok.......nudge, nudge, wink, wink


----------



## Distortion

Electraglide said:


> There are things NW of Cochrane on logging roads that make the PG Grizzly's look tame.


Cochrane Ont.


----------



## Doug Gifford

GuitarsCanada said:


> Ontario to close cannabis stores, dubbing them 'non-essential' in updated emergency order - Article - BNN


And that's why it's important to support your neighbours who still sell the stuff. That said, I'm not sure that smoking *anything* will help if you get sick with this.


----------



## mhammer

When I look at the stats on the worldometer site ( Coronavirus Update (Live): 1,095,134 Cases and 58,791 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Outbreak - Worldometer ), nations differ widely in the distribution of "closed cases". Specifically, some have a LOT more recovered than died (e.g., Germany, Switzerland, South Korea, and even Canada; I'll sidestep China because we're not sure about their numbers), some have more died than recovered (UK, Sweden, Portugal), and some have recovered just a bit more than have died (e.g., Italy, USA, Belgium). Now, a "case" is not "closed" until the person has either gotten better and been released, or has died. A person who is in serious/critical condition, and folks are busting their hump to get that person over it, is still an "open" or active case. Many of the current active cases could conceivably turn into deaths in the next few days. So the story isn't really written yet, if only because the outbreak commenced at different times in different countries.

But I'm curious about what yields these drastically different ratios across countries.

Are the countries with far more recovered than dead simply not owning up to the number of fatalities? Is their health care system struggling to keep the death count low, or will the death count quickly catch up?

Are countries with better outcomes testing more people and catching things early on?
Do countries with particularly high/numbers of fatalities, relative to recoveries, _not _catch things early? Do they have less capacity to treat the sick? Are there demographic differences that work against them?


----------



## 10409

Good news I think? As far as the fatality rate goes anyways it makes sense, many people with mild symptoms or under quarantine anyways would mostly get reported if critically ill or dead


----------



## Eric Reesor

Electraglide said:


> There are things NW of Cochrane on logging roads that make the PG Grizzly's look tame.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on the other end of the scale being not quite human they could be ok.......nudge, nudge, wink, wink.


Either that or smoke up some polar bear liver and see that it goes to someone who tries to steal your grub stake! Besides the guy in the picture you posted is part of the scheduled replacement species for this planet so you had better get to be friends with those guys, some of whom are over a thousand years old and that is why we don't see any of their bones. Watching Ancient Aliens really helps clarify history and the future of our species. It even can get you into new hair styles.


----------



## Electraglide

Distortion said:


> Cochrane Ont.


You'd be better off in BC.








Not too sure about the sex of this Ont. native


----------



## Dorian2

GuitarsCanada said:


> Ontario to close cannabis stores, dubbing them 'non-essential' in updated emergency order - Article - BNN


Curious if they could use the current employee's and have them deliver in lieu of the closed doors? That would possibly allow for peeps to get their Meds and mitigate more EI claims from the staff that would otherwise be laid off. Of course the staff would have to agree to do the different type of courier work. Just a thought.


----------



## Electraglide

Doug Gifford said:


> And that's why it's important to support your neighbours who still sell the stuff. That said, I'm not sure that smoking *anything* will help if you get sick with this.


Liquor stores are next.


----------



## Electraglide

Eric Reesor said:


> Either that or smoke up some polar bear liver and see that it goes to someone who tries to steal your grub stake! Besides the guy in the picture you posted is part of the scheduled replacement species for this planet so you had better get to be friends with those guys, some of whom are over a thousand years old and that is why we don't see any of their bones. Watching Ancient Aliens really helps clarify history and the future of our species. It even can get you into new hair styles.


That's a female of the species from around Chettwyn. The Spuzzum ones are different.


----------



## boyscout

keto said:


> Something for the eyes too. Am just reading that coughs and sneezes a) can travel 6 meters and b) droplets can stay in the air for 10 minutes.


Well here's another source that says it can stay in the air for up to three hours, quoting a preliminary and un-reviewed study done March 10th.

Saw another one saying that someone talking five feet away can transmit the virus.

However both studies admit that while they can detect virus indicators in the aerosols they studied they have no idea whether there is enough material in them to infect a person.

Will coronavirus survive airborne? Are young people safe? Do face masks protect me? Are men more likely to die? Burning questions on COVID-19


----------



## boyscout

After weeks in isolation with our partners there's little doubt that strains will cause some eruptions.

An American man has made a brilliant and timely discovery for defusing tense circumstances with your partner: tell her / him to "calm down".

Man Brilliantly Defuses Argument By Telling Wife To Calm Down

_U.S.—Local man Paul Jensen is being heralded as a genius and hero after he got the brilliant idea to defuse an argument with his wife by suggesting that she "calm down."

Paul and Rachel were arguing over finances when the idea came to him to just ask her to relax and settle down a bit. He was baffled that he had never thought of this before, as it's such a surefire tactic. He also couldn't believe no one else had ever tried this in the history of mankind since it's such a great idea.

"Why don't you just relax, babe?" said the man in a stroke of genius. "Calm down. Take a chill pill. Settle down. Take a deep breath. Count to ten. Let's be rational here."_


----------



## Electraglide

boyscout said:


> After weeks in isolation with our partners there's little doubt that strains will cause some eruptions.
> 
> An American man has made a brilliant and timely discovery for defusing tense circumstances with your partner: tell her / him to "calm down".
> 
> Man Brilliantly Defuses Argument By Telling Wife To Calm Down
> 
> _U.S.—Local man Paul Jensen is being heralded as a genius and hero after he got the brilliant idea to defuse an argument with his wife by suggesting that she "calm down."
> 
> Paul and Rachel were arguing over finances when the idea came to him to just ask her to relax and settle down a bit. He was baffled that he had never thought of this before, as it's such a surefire tactic. He also couldn't believe no one else had ever tried this in the history of mankind since it's such a great idea.
> 
> "Why don't you just relax, babe?" said the man in a stroke of genius. "Calm down. Take a chill pill. Settle down. Take a deep breath. Count to ten. Let's be rational here."_


And the sale of all his belongings is when? Probably to pay for the cost of cremation.


----------



## Dorian2

Electraglide said:


> That's a female of the species from around Chettwyn. The Spuzzum ones are different.


Yo...can you and the other guy at least try keeping on topic?

Thanks.


----------



## mhammer

mike_oxbig said:


> Good news I think? As far as the fatality rate goes anyways it makes sense, many people with mild symptoms or under quarantine anyways would mostly get reported if critically ill or dead


Maybe not clearly enough, but that's what I've been saying. Things like pre-election opinion polls, using a stratified random sample of 1000 people, can often be _very_ close approximations of the actual nation-wide result, within a fairly small margin of error, or "confidence interval", because they are a random sample and not self-selecting or otherwise biased in some manner. If your opinion poll consisted of 10 people in various cities waiting for the first 100 people to come along and offer their opinion _spontaneously_, the results would not be especially reflective of the whole nation. 

As is noted in the the worldometer clip, when a country has not engaged in broad random testing of residents, but only tests those who come forward _seeking_ testing, one will tend to inaccurately estimate (and probably underestimate) the share of citizens who are actually infected. And since many of those who sought testing because they did not feel at all well are likely going to be felled by the virus, the mortality estimate will be on the high side because the denominator of those currently ill enough to be in hospital is smaller than the actual population share who are infected. That's why I lean towards the column on the far right of the table: deaths-per-million (of the population) That number also allows one to put this particular source of mortality into perspective, and compare it against other sources of mortality. For instance, the death rate per million from tuberculosis was 3.3 in Canada in 2018. That's for the entire year. Based on the number of deaths in the last *3-1/2* weeks (first recorded death in Canada was March 9), the death rate from Covid-19 was 6 per million. Again, I'm comparing 3-1/2 weeks against 52 weeks. *IF* we had the same number of deaths for the _rest_ of the year that we've seen since March 9, we would anticipate approximately 73 deaths per million residents. It won't be nearly as high as the deaths per million from heart disease or cancer, but will still be a helluva lot higher than the death rate for many other things we worry about, and likely to surpass opioid deaths.

Again, this is not extrapolating from the mortality rate of those people who have been tested and hospitalized, but from the number of deaths in the population, irrespective of whether they sought testing or not.


----------



## mhammer

boyscout said:


> After weeks in isolation with our partners there's little doubt that strains will cause some eruptions.
> 
> An American man has made a brilliant and timely discovery for defusing tense circumstances with your partner: tell her / him to "calm down".
> 
> Man Brilliantly Defuses Argument By Telling Wife To Calm Down
> 
> _U.S.—Local man Paul Jensen is being heralded as a genius and hero after he got the brilliant idea to defuse an argument with his wife by suggesting that she "calm down."
> 
> Paul and Rachel were arguing over finances when the idea came to him to just ask her to relax and settle down a bit. He was baffled that he had never thought of this before, as it's such a surefire tactic. He also couldn't believe no one else had ever tried this in the history of mankind since it's such a great idea.
> 
> "Why don't you just relax, babe?" said the man in a stroke of genius. "Calm down. Take a chill pill. Settle down. Take a deep breath. Count to ten. Let's be rational here."_


I was looking for a Beaverton link to the "article", but I guess they don't have a monopoly on all the good ones.


----------



## Electraglide

Ok,
1. Why, if you have a cabin in the woods, can't you and your family go there? If you have all the neccesities and you check negative there shouldn't be any problem.
2. This is right up there with unca donny telling 3m not to honor their contract and to not ship to Canada or anywhere else they are needed. 
'An act of modern piracy': A mask shipment from 3M bound for Germany was reportedly diverted to the US
3. From the looks of it there's more than just me and "the other guy".


Dorian2 said:


> Probably quite well if supplied appropriately.


Cute.


----------



## davetcan

When's the funeral?



boyscout said:


> After weeks in isolation with our partners there's little doubt that strains will cause some eruptions.
> 
> An American man has made a brilliant and timely discovery for defusing tense circumstances with your partner: tell her / him to "calm down".
> 
> Man Brilliantly Defuses Argument By Telling Wife To Calm Down
> 
> _U.S.—Local man Paul Jensen is being heralded as a genius and hero after he got the brilliant idea to defuse an argument with his wife by suggesting that she "calm down."
> 
> Paul and Rachel were arguing over finances when the idea came to him to just ask her to relax and settle down a bit. He was baffled that he had never thought of this before, as it's such a surefire tactic. He also couldn't believe no one else had ever tried this in the history of mankind since it's such a great idea.
> 
> "Why don't you just relax, babe?" said the man in a stroke of genius. "Calm down. Take a chill pill. Settle down. Take a deep breath. Count to ten. Let's be rational here."_


----------



## Dorian2

Electraglide said:


> Ok,
> 1. Why, if you have a cabin in the woods, can't you and your family go there? If you have all the neccesities and you check negative there shouldn't be any problem.
> 2. This is right up there with unca donny telling 3m not to honor their contract and to not ship to Canada or anywhere else they are needed.
> 'An act of modern piracy': A mask shipment from 3M bound for Germany was reportedly diverted to the US
> 3. From the looks of it there's more than just me and "the other guy".
> 
> Cute.


Heh. Spin it like you want. That's OK. At least you're on topic.

Glad you liked the video. Stay safe. Glad I'm in Edmonton.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/17/new-y...hospital-beds-complicating-coronavirus-fight/


----------



## Eric Reesor

BTW a first aid pocket mask with a valve that is used on a BVM (bag valve mask) can easily be attached to a then gently used clean foot air pump in an absolute emergency to assist respirations of someone on the verge of respiratory collapse. That is if you are trained in the use a of bag valve mask and know how to open airways with a chin lift and not over inflate the human lung. This is a bit of a kludge and duck tape might come in very handy if you do not have the right sized hoses and connectors. 

Beyond a shadow of a doubt Apollo 13 demonstrated that ingenuity in a crisis is the key to human survival.

I have been diagnosed with mild sleep apnea but have not filled the prescription for a bedside CPAP so if I get a serious case of this virus my chances are not the best to say the least. I have read that CPAP machines can be used for ventilation assist in a pinch dealing with less serious cases of this disease at home with the help of advice from medical professionals. I just hope I won't really need one. But I do have the gear to create a reasonable and safe and clean manual one in a pinch.
Just I would rather use my good foot air pump to inflate my fishing boat unless absolutely necessary. Level two and three first aid training in BC has saved a great many people especially in remote circumstances when you communicate well with medical professionals during an emergency.

Back to studying Villa Lobos and Agustin Barrios Mangore. 
I promise I will try to stay on topic... maybe.

But discussing panic reactions and heading for the hills in survivalist gear certainly won't help deal with this crisis, that is why my funny bone went off big time on this topic!


----------



## Wardo

Eric Reesor said:


> ... ingenuity in a crisis is the key to human survival.


Thank you for your service. I come from a long line of red necks or deplorables as we are now called but we kinda learned that ingenuity thing pretty early in life. Maybe get the BPAP help you blow off some CO2.


----------



## allthumbs56

boyscout said:


> After weeks in isolation with our partners there's little doubt that strains will cause some eruptions.
> 
> An American man has made a brilliant and timely discovery for defusing tense circumstances with your partner: tell her / him to "calm down".
> 
> Man Brilliantly Defuses Argument By Telling Wife To Calm Down
> 
> _U.S.—Local man Paul Jensen is being heralded as a genius and hero after he got the brilliant idea to defuse an argument with his wife by suggesting that she "calm down."
> 
> Paul and Rachel were arguing over finances when the idea came to him to just ask her to relax and settle down a bit. He was baffled that he had never thought of this before, as it's such a surefire tactic. He also couldn't believe no one else had ever tried this in the history of mankind since it's such a great idea.
> 
> "Why don't you just relax, babe?" said the man in a stroke of genius. "Calm down. Take a chill pill. Settle down. Take a deep breath. Count to ten. Let's be rational here."_


So technically he didn't die from Covid


----------



## Eric Reesor

Wardo said:


> Thank you for your service. I come from a long line of red necks or deplorables as we are now called but we kinda learned that ingenuity thing pretty early in life. Maybe get the BPAP help you blow off some CO2.


The big problems will be preventing the fluid build up in the lungs and assisting the victim in clearing the fluids from their lungs and maintaining consciousness. The trick there is quickly instructing bystanders that will help in roll and tilt lung clear assist, in this instance even a spine board can really help if you do not have a stretcher with straps handy.

By the time someone is in respiratory distress due to this disease you need to know some very basic emergency room procedures. That is where Level 3 training shines. Paramedic training of course goes further but getting to someone that can do more can very quickly become time sensitive and knowing some of the essentials is the key.

Thanks for your understanding and kind acknowledgement of the skills needed to save the lives of those in respiratory distress. I have not had a Level 3 with O2 unrestricted ticket in quite a few years but the training was great and it helped me earn a living for quite a few years but the skills necessary are still firmly rooted even if I am a little long in the tooth.


----------



## vadsy




----------



## Electraglide

allthumbs56 said:


> So technically he didn't die from Covid


Probably blunt force and sharp force trauma.


----------



## torndownunit

Electraglide said:


> Ok,
> 1. Why, if you have a cabin in the woods, can't you and your family go there? If you have all the neccesities and you check negative there shouldn't be any problem.
> 2. This is right up there with unca donny telling 3m not to honor their contract and to not ship to Canada or anywhere else they are needed.
> 'An act of modern piracy': A mask shipment from 3M bound for Germany was reportedly diverted to the US
> 3. From the looks of it there's more than just me and "the other guy".
> 
> Cute.


RE question #1, I am just answering it, not giving an opinion. The idea behind a lot of these regulations is not just related to spread of the virus, but keeping any strain off the health system and first responders. They don't want an exodus of people driving their cars up to cottage country all at once when the weather gets nice and risking accidents etc. Crowded service stations etc. are obviously a part of that too. They also don't want all of these people up in areas that have less medical facilities and less first responders that can't handle the strain. Again, I am just answering the question.

This is one reason the hiking trails have all been closed where I am by Credit Valley Conservation and the Bruce Trail. The crowding at the parking lots was a big issue as far as isolating, and they were having to call the police out to manage it because those parking lot scenarios were breaking the gathering rules. But they also don't want to have to rescue anyone off the hiking trails, especially in really isolated areas because they want those resources better used. As an avid hiker who considers hiking essential for my mental health I don't LIKE this, but I am definitely respecting what they are asking and trying to see the big picture.

Now I will give an opinion. Leaving people to do the right thing obviously wasn't working on any level and still isn't from what I am seeing in my town. So what was warned could happen as far as stricter regulations is happening. A lot of people are selfish and stupid, and their stupidity is costing the rest of us.


----------



## boyscout

Seen online this morning, not my creation:

_Having some states locked down while others have not done that is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool._


----------



## boyscout

boyscout said:


> My "niece-in-law" just reported that her (Canadian) parents are on one of the cruise ships floating offshore because no port will let them land. There are 42 people on the ship exhibiting symptoms, but the ship has no means for testing them for Covid-19. Her parents are firmly in the at-risk cohort.


Her parents were returned by their daughter to their home in Niagara last night, well-protected by PPE supplied to them and resolved to hunker down for several weeks.

They didn't get sick on the Zaandam, but they weren't among those transferred to the Rotterdam either... niece hasn't said why. The story below recounts how the passengers were and still are being handled in Florida. It also reports that the Coast Guard has ordered cruise lines to keep their sickening crews on board and treat them in place... yikes! Haven't we already seen what a catastrophe that can be?!

My niece is thanking Justin Trudeau  and the federal government for brokering through the resistance to passage in Panama and Fort Lauderdale and arranging flights, and Holland America for looking after her parents so well during the ordeal.

Helluva memory for their 50th anniversary. 

Florida finally takes in cruise ship passengers, some on stretchers


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## GuitarsCanada

mhammer said:


> Maybe not clearly enough, but that's what I've been saying. Things like pre-election opinion polls, using a stratified random sample of 1000 people, can often be _very_ close approximations of the actual nation-wide result, within a fairly small margin of error, or "confidence interval", because they are a random sample and not self-selecting or otherwise biased in some manner. If your opinion poll consisted of 10 people in various cities waiting for the first 100 people to come along and offer their opinion _spontaneously_, the results would not be especially reflective of the whole nation.
> 
> As is noted in the the worldometer clip, when a country has not engaged in broad random testing of residents, but only tests those who come forward _seeking_ testing, one will tend to inaccurately estimate (and probably underestimate) the share of citizens who are actually infected. And since many of those who sought testing because they did not feel at all well are likely going to be felled by the virus, the mortality estimate will be on the high side because the denominator of those currently ill enough to be in hospital is smaller than the actual population share who are infected. That's why I lean towards the column on the far right of the table: deaths-per-million (of the population) That number also allows one to put this particular source of mortality into perspective, and compare it against other sources of mortality. For instance, the death rate per million from tuberculosis was 3.3 in Canada in 2018. That's for the entire year. Based on the number of deaths in the last *3-1/2* weeks (first recorded death in Canada was March 9), the death rate from Covid-19 was 6 per million. Again, I'm comparing 3-1/2 weeks against 52 weeks. *IF* we had the same number of deaths for the _rest_ of the year that we've seen since March 9, we would anticipate approximately 73 deaths per million residents. It won't be nearly as high as the deaths per million from heart disease or cancer, but will still be a helluva lot higher than the death rate for many other things we worry about, and likely to surpass opioid deaths.
> 
> Again, this is not extrapolating from the mortality rate of those people who have been tested and hospitalized, but from the number of deaths in the population, irrespective of whether they sought testing or not.


I'm going to throw this in for people to ponder. Think back to mid December and January. How many people came down with a nasty flu? I remember back to our Xmas dinner. We had 13 of us there. Within 3 weeks of that dinner every single one of us had a terrible flu, ever single person. My wife, who until this year, never get's sick. She had not one but two bouts with a flu and chest cold. My buddy who I have known for 35 years and see regularly came down with 2 severe chest ailments within 2 months. I also had 2 and one was real bad in the chest. My son ended up in the hospital with pneumonia and was treated with antibiotics. He claimed he had never been that sick in his life. I'm starting wonder now if we have not been living with this thing since January, albeit possibly another, weaker strain of it. Anyone else run into a long lasting and bad flu this year? The only flyer in the mix with us is that my Daughter and her husband had just returned from a cruise to Greece and Italy a few days before our dinner


----------



## boyscout

From a pay-walled Wall Street Journal story: 

Prices of isopropyl alcohol (the active ingredient in medical sanitizing products) have *tripled* in recent weeks. More companies begging to be slapped with DPA orders - go get 'em Donald!

Meanwhile manufacturers are eyeing alternatives including ethanol, the ingredient found in so much gasoline that is NOT being consumed as much anymore.


----------



## Frenchy99

GuitarsCanada said:


> I'm going to throw this in for people to ponder. Think back to mid December and January. How many people came down with a nasty flu? I remember back to our Xmas dinner. We had 13 of us there. Within 3 weeks of that dinner every single one of us had a terrible flu, ever single person. My wife, who until this year, never get's sick. She had not one but two bouts with a flu and chest cold. My buddy who I have known for 35 years and see regularly came down with 2 severe chest ailments within 2 months. I also had 2 and one was real bad in the chest. My son ended up in the hospital with pneumonia and was treated with antibiotics. He claimed he had never been that sick in his life. I'm starting wonder now if we have not been living with this thing since January, albeit possibly another, weaker strain of it. Anyone else run into a long lasting and bad flu this year?


I was sick as a dog for the whole month of January... Never been sick like this in my entire life. I though my lungs were going to give out. The pain was incredible. My wife was changing my bedsheets daily. 

One night I woke up and actually had to put ice packs on my head since though it would melt down so much I was burning up. Scared the living sh... out of me.

I, myself said to my wife weeks ago that I though it might be related.


----------



## boyscout

GuitarsCanada said:


> I'm going to throw this in for people to ponder. Think back to mid December and January. How many people came down with a nasty flu? I remember back to our Xmas dinner. We had 13 of us there. Within 3 weeks of that dinner every single one of us had a terrible flu, ever single person. My wife, who until this year, never get's sick. She had not one but two bouts with a flu and chest cold. My buddy who I have known for 35 years and see regularly came down with 2 severe chest ailments within 2 months. I also had 2 and one was real bad in the chest. My son ended up in the hospital with pneumonia and was treated with antibiotics. He claimed he had never been that sick in his life. I'm starting wonder now if we have not been living with this thing since January, albeit possibly another, weaker strain of it. Anyone else run into a long lasting and bad flu this year?


Yup, same story here, wife pretty much completely debilitated by it for at least two weeks and sick for weeks longer, I not as much flattened by it but certainly felt it and it stayed and stayed for about a month. From late December to late January.

We believed we got it from our 18-month-old grandson who was sick. His parents got only mild symptoms.


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## Stephenlouis

The asymptomatic spread is looking like the real problem with containment. There are some numbers starting to come to light, growing evidence that make social distancing all the more important to take seriously. Modestly, between 18% and 50% will be able to spread it without any sign of carrying the virus.


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## torndownunit

GuitarsCanada said:


> I'm going to throw this in for people to ponder. Think back to mid December and January. How many people came down with a nasty flu? I remember back to our Xmas dinner. We had 13 of us there. Within 3 weeks of that dinner every single one of us had a terrible flu, ever single person. My wife, who until this year, never get's sick. She had not one but two bouts with a flu and chest cold. My buddy who I have known for 35 years and see regularly came down with 2 severe chest ailments within 2 months. I also had 2 and one was real bad in the chest. My son ended up in the hospital with pneumonia and was treated with antibiotics. He claimed he had never been that sick in his life. I'm starting wonder now if we have not been living with this thing since January, albeit possibly another, weaker strain of it. Anyone else run into a long lasting and bad flu this year? The only flyer in the mix with us is that my Daughter and her husband had just returned from a cruise to Greece and Italy a few days before our dinner


I have said this to several people. I was the probably the sickest I have ever been (other than when I had full blown pneumonia and Scarlett Fever) in January with something that had all the same symptoms. My chest still isn't recovered from it and I get tightness, pain, and coughing.


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## allthumbs56

GuitarsCanada said:


> I'm going to throw this in for people to ponder. Think back to mid December and January. How many people came down with a nasty flu? I remember back to our Xmas dinner. We had 13 of us there. Within 3 weeks of that dinner every single one of us had a terrible flu, ever single person. My wife, who until this year, never get's sick. She had not one but two bouts with a flu and chest cold. My buddy who I have known for 35 years and see regularly came down with 2 severe chest ailments within 2 months. I also had 2 and one was real bad in the chest. My son ended up in the hospital with pneumonia and was treated with antibiotics. He claimed he had never been that sick in his life. I'm starting wonder now if we have not been living with this thing since January, albeit possibly another, weaker strain of it. Anyone else run into a long lasting and bad flu this year? The only flyer in the mix with us is that my Daughter and her husband had just returned from a cruise to Greece and Italy a few days before our dinner





Frenchy99 said:


> I was sick as a dog for the whole month of January... Never been sick like this in my entire life. I though my lungs were going to give out. The pain was incredible. My wife was changing my bedsheets daily.
> 
> One night I woke up and actually had to put ice packs on my head since though it would melt down so much I was burning up. Scared the living sh... out of me.
> 
> I, myself said to my wife weeks ago that I though it might be related.





boyscout said:


> Yup, same story here, wife pretty much completely debilitated by it for at least two weeks and sick for weeks longer, I not as much flattened by it but certainly felt it and it stayed and stayed for about a month. From late December to late January.
> 
> We believed we got it from our 18-month-old grandson who was sick. His parents got only mild symptoms.





torndownunit said:


> I have said this to several people. I was the probably the sickest I have ever been (other than when I had full blown pneumonia and Scarlett Fever) in January with something that had all the same symptoms. My chest still isn't recovered from it and I get tightness, pain, and coughing.


Kinda makes you think. We certainly weren't testing for it at that point.


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## torndownunit

allthumbs56 said:


> Kinda makes you think. We certainly weren't testing for it at that point.


It's something I'd like to ask someone who's an expert about. I actually do know one, but he's not someone I can easily get a hold of. But when I first started reading about this, all I could think about was holy crap does that sound like what I had. I told my doctor at the time that I felt like my chest was damaged for good. I was literally having coughing fits do bad at night that I'd puke and could barely breath. When it comes to the ER, it takes a lot for me to go. But several nights I thought about it because I live alone and was legit worried I was getting to a point where I couldn't get myself there.


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## cdntac

torndownunit said:


> I have said this to several people. I was the probably the sickest I have ever been (other than when I had full blown pneumonia and Scarlett Fever) in January with something that had all the same symptoms. My chest still isn't recovered from it and I get tightness, pain, and coughing.


Me too. In fact, about three weeks ago the chest tightness has come back somewhat. First thing in the morning I feel pretty normal and then I once I start moving around it comes back. 

Every morning when I wake up my first thought is “Good, I don’t feel like I have the flu...”


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## GuitarsCanada

allthumbs56 said:


> Kinda makes you think. We certainly weren't testing for it at that point.


It sure does. I also had my flu shots this year and it did nothing against whatever the hell we had in January.


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## GuitarsCanada

torndownunit said:


> It's something I'd like to ask someone who's an expert about. I actually do know one, but he's not someone I can easily get a hold of. But when I first started reading about this, all I could think about was holy crap does that sound like what I had. I told my doctor at the time that I felt like my chest was damaged for good. I was literally having coughing fits do bad at night that I'd puke and could barely breath. When it comes to the ER, it takes a lot for me to go. But several nights I thought about it because I live alone and was legit worried I was getting to a point where I couldn't get myself there.


That was like mine, I would cough so bad I would gag and came pretty close to throwing up dozens of times. That went on for weeks.


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## Dorian2

GuitarsCanada said:


> I'm going to throw this in for people to ponder. Think back to mid December and January. How many people came down with a nasty flu? I remember back to our Xmas dinner. We had 13 of us there. Within 3 weeks of that dinner every single one of us had a terrible flu, ever single person. My wife, who until this year, never get's sick. She had not one but two bouts with a flu and chest cold. My buddy who I have known for 35 years and see regularly came down with 2 severe chest ailments within 2 months. I also had 2 and one was real bad in the chest. My son ended up in the hospital with pneumonia and was treated with antibiotics. He claimed he had never been that sick in his life. I'm starting wonder now if we have not been living with this thing since January, albeit possibly another, weaker strain of it. Anyone else run into a long lasting and bad flu this year? The only flyer in the mix with us is that my Daughter and her husband had just returned from a cruise to Greece and Italy a few days before our dinner


Both my wife and I got a little sicker than usual in around that time as well. It lasted for a day and a half, so we just kinda put it down to some kind of strain that our flu shots didn't cover. Don't want to overreach the possibility that it could have been the beginning of this. Probably no real way of telling though.


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## GuitarsCanada

The other funny thing about it is that everyone I know seems to have gotten it twice. The first round lasted a few weeks and then you recovered and then it came back.


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## Jim Wellington

GuitarsCanada said:


> I'm going to throw this in for people to ponder. Think back to mid December and January. How many people came down with a nasty flu? I remember back to our Xmas dinner. We had 13 of us there. Within 3 weeks of that dinner every single one of us had a terrible flu, ever single person. My wife, who until this year, never get's sick. She had not one but two bouts with a flu and chest cold. My buddy who I have known for 35 years and see regularly came down with 2 severe chest ailments within 2 months. I also had 2 and one was real bad in the chest. My son ended up in the hospital with pneumonia and was treated with antibiotics. He claimed he had never been that sick in his life. I'm starting wonder now if we have not been living with this thing since January, albeit possibly another, weaker strain of it. Anyone else run into a long lasting and bad flu this year? The only flyer in the mix with us is that my Daughter and her husband had just returned from a cruise to Greece and Italy a few days before our dinner


I`ve had similar thoughts...I caught a virus in early November that had me short of breath and hacking until the second week of January. I usually contract the seasonal flu about every 4 years or so, which leads me to believe that my immune system is mostly normal. This was different, sweats, sore throat, dizzy, congestion in the lungs, and tired for a couple of weeks, and then just tired and congested for the remaining 8 weeks. Most of the people over 50 in my family and friends group contracted something similar, but some got over it in about 6 weeks, yet 2 other people took a couple of months. I know people, next door for example that had a virus similar to this as early as late last September. The weirdest thing regarding this was that one family member has COPD...she never got sick...go figure. Can`t say this is anything but interesting supposition, as I haven`t been tested for an antibody to Covid 19. Regardless, it`s essential trips only with gloves, glasses, chlorine spray for cleaning surfaces in my truck, and a mask(if there is a crowd of any kind) during early morning when the stores are empty for this kid until further notice... Parcels and mail stay in quarantine for 48 hrs...groceries get a wipe with a chlorine and water solution before they get stored...


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## Electraglide

boyscout said:


> From a pay-walled Wall Street Journal story:
> 
> Prices of isopropyl alcohol (the active ingredient in medical sanitizing products) have *tripled* in recent weeks. More companies begging to be slapped with DPA orders - go get 'em Donald!
> 
> Meanwhile manufacturers are eyeing alternatives including ethanol, the ingredient found in so much gasoline that is NOT being consumed as much anymore.


I don't know about the states but haven't a lot of companies who make alcohol.....the drinking kind....in Canada started to put out hand sanitizers and from what is on line donated said sanitizers to where it's needed.....hospitals etc.? 
A comprehensive list of Canadian distilleries producing sanitizer during COVID-19 crisis


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## Chito

Me and my wife also caught that January virus. My wife in fact had it twice too. At some point she was concerned about pneumonia. But she eventually got better. We also both have the flu shot as well as the pneumonia shot.

I think with a lot of us getting sick at that time, it could've already been the covid-19 but we both didn't have a fever.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Chito said:


> Me and my wife also caught that January virus. My wife in fact had it twice too. At some point she was concerned about pneumonia. But she eventually got better. We also both have the flu shot as well as the pneumonia shot.
> 
> I think with a lot of us getting sick at that time, it could've already been the covid-19 but we both didn't have a fever.


Not everyone has had fever, same as not everyone has had the chest problems. Symptoms have varied in terms of how many you will exhibit. The dangerous one of course is the pneumonia. I have a feeling that it was the same virus but another strain.


----------



## torndownunit

Chito said:


> Me and my wife also caught that January virus. My wife in fact had it twice too. At some point she was concerned about pneumonia. But she eventually got better. We also both have the flu shot as well as the pneumonia shot.
> 
> I think with a lot of us getting sick at that time, it could've already been the covid-19 but we both didn't have a fever.


The times I've had a fever over the years are few, but I was soaking right through to my matress with what I had.


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## sulphur

I had a wicked flu around a month ago, three day fever and all.
I still have a cough and phlegmy chest.


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## boyscout

Electraglide said:


> I don't know about the states but haven't a lot of companies who make alcohol.....the drinking kind....in Canada started to put out hand sanitizers and from what is on line donated said sanitizers to where it's needed.....hospitals etc.?
> A comprehensive list of Canadian distilleries producing sanitizer during COVID-19 crisis


Yes but all the stories I've seen have indicated that the community-minded distillers were providing their new product to front-line workers in the pandemic.

They're making ethyl alcohol. It's very nearly as effective as the isopropyl alcohol usually used for medical purposes, but their distillation systems don't usually eliminate as much water so their products are more like 60% alcohol than the more-ideal 70%.

If you feel inclined to use your 18-year-old Scotch to sanitize yourself it will definitely help a lot - just use a little more and a little longer - but hope that the production of isopropyl steps up to meet demand so that you can sanitize your insides with the Scotch.


----------



## sulphur




----------



## GuitarsCanada

sulphur said:


> I had a wicked flu around a month ago, three day fever and all.
> I still have a cough and phlegmy chest.


I think what they are going to have to do is come up with a blood test to determine who has had this thing and who has antibodies for it. I think we will find that millions have already had at least one strain of it


----------



## BlueRocker

Jim Wellington said:


> I`ve had similar thoughts...I caught a virus in early November that had me short of breath and hacking until the second week of January. I usually contract the seasonal flu about every 4 years or so, which leads me to believe that my immune system is mostly normal. This was different, sweats, sore throat, dizzy, congestion in the lungs, and tired for a couple of weeks, and then just tired and congested for the remaining 8 weeks.


This was my story exactly. Started first week of November - had to go to the hospital about 5 weeks in to get the lungs cleared out. I know I caught it from a guy from the GTA.


----------



## Wardo

I mentioned it in a previous post but I had what I thought was the worst cold/flu ever back in January and it took a long time to go away - seemed to come back too bcs I returned to work and then was off again. Talking to a doctor a few weeks ago and he was wondering if people weren’t already getting it in January.


----------



## Electraglide

allthumbs56 said:


> Kinda makes you think. We certainly weren't testing for it at that point.


Just wondering, have any of you guys who've had this chest flu like thing seen your dr. about it? Especially if you're sick for that long. Could be something completely different. I had a lung infection that antibiotics took care of. Sounded like gravel in my lungs when I breathed and people could hear it. If you've been having problems since Jan. it should be checked out.


----------



## laristotle

boyscout said:


> If you feel inclined to use your 18-year-old Scotch to sanitize yourself it will definitely help a lot


----------



## torndownunit

Electraglide said:


> Just wondering, have any of you guys who've had this chest flu like thing seen your dr. about it? Especially if you're sick for that long. Could be something completely different. I had a lung infection that antibiotics took care of. Sounded like gravel in my lungs when I breathed and people could hear it. If you've been having problems since Jan. it should be checked out.


I did see my Dr at the time, and I have been back since. The issue with me is that I had pneumonia in the past and chest issues in the winter aren't uncommon for me. And so many people had bugs at that point, that it seemed 'normal', and the very worst of it passed after a couple of weeks. The coughing lingered forever though, but I wasn't feeling sick. I was about to go back a couple of weeks back to let her know that I STILL have chest tightness but at this point I don't really want to go to a dr's office and risk getting anything, let alone Covid. So unless I run into more issues, I will wait it out.


----------



## cdntac

Electraglide said:


> Just wondering, have any of you guys who've had this chest flu like thing seen your dr. about it? Especially if you're sick for that long. Could be something completely different. I had a lung infection that antibiotics took care of. Sounded like gravel in my lungs when I breathed and people could hear it. If you've been having problems since Jan. it should be checked out.


I did in February when I still felt pretty crappy. 

I had a chest x ray and did some tests measuring how strong my breathing/blowing was. 

Everything came back negative even though it felt as if I’d been lightly punched in the sternum (which I still feel). 

I was told that the virus going around was taking over six weeks or longer to completely disappear. 

My wife had something similar in mid to late February although she also had a pounding headache, some nausea, minor gut issues and lots of flem. It took her about three weeks to get over it.


----------



## cdntac

torndownunit said:


> I was about to go back a couple of weeks back to let her know that I STILL have chest tightness but at this point I don't really want to go to a dr's office and risk getting anything, let alone Covid. So unless I run into more issues, I will wait it out.


That’s my plan too.


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## Dorian2

You have to click whitelist to read it. Refreshes automagically. South America is going to get hit hard I think. Bad situation there.

Bodies left in streets as COVID-19 overwhelms Ecuador


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## Electraglide

boyscout said:


> Yes but all the stories I've seen have indicated that the community-minded distillers were providing their new product to front-line workers in the pandemic.
> 
> They're making ethyl alcohol. It's very nearly as effective as the isopropyl alcohol usually used for medical purposes, but their distillation systems don't usually eliminate as much water so their products are more like 60% alcohol than the more-ideal 70%.
> 
> If you feel inclined to use your 18-year-old Scotch to sanitize yourself it will definitely help a lot - just use a little more and a little longer - but hope that the production of isopropyl steps up to meet demand so that you can sanitize your insides with the Scotch.


From what I've seen most give their product free to front line people....how's that for being community minded.....and selling some at reasonable prices. Seems like the big guys have gotten into it too. 
From vodka and gin to hand sanitizer: global distilleries rush to the rescue amid the coronavirus crisis
All their product fits in the 60% to 95% CDC alcohol concentration. Didn't see anything about Scotch.


----------



## mhammer

GuitarsCanada said:


> I'm going to throw this in for people to ponder. Think back to mid December and January. How many people came down with a nasty flu? I remember back to our Xmas dinner. We had 13 of us there. Within 3 weeks of that dinner every single one of us had a terrible flu, ever single person. My wife, who until this year, never get's sick. She had not one but two bouts with a flu and chest cold. My buddy who I have known for 35 years and see regularly came down with 2 severe chest ailments within 2 months. I also had 2 and one was real bad in the chest. My son ended up in the hospital with pneumonia and was treated with antibiotics. He claimed he had never been that sick in his life. I'm starting wonder now if we have not been living with this thing since January, albeit possibly another, weaker strain of it. Anyone else run into a long lasting and bad flu this year? The only flyer in the mix with us is that my Daughter and her husband had just returned from a cruise to Greece and Italy a few days before our dinner


Geez. Remind me not to get an invite to your house for dinner! 

Rachel Maddow had a very compelling analogy last night. She said that designating specific areas or states as non-lockdown areas was like designating one part of the pool where it was okay for people to pee in the water, or one part of the airplane where it was fine to smoke.

But on to other matters. Without intending to be "political" about it, one of the things that governments _everywhere_ are not especially good about, and have generally _never_ been good about, is conveying the operational aspects of something they were attempting or planning to do.

I'll illustrate. "Hey. It's a nice sunny day. Let's get in the car and go for a drive in the country!". "Hey, you know what? We've been stuck in this city for ages. Let's go somewhere exotic for a getaway. How about South America?" Both of those are spur of the moment ideas, and sound good, conceptually. They both probably took about the same amount of time and consultation to dream up. But what is involved in implementing each of those? For the one, I may need to let you finish whatever it is you were working on or watching, and gas up the car. The other one requires that I be sure I have a valid passport, find out about and obtain any shots I have to get, look into flights and accommodations, find, cost, book, and confirm the accommodations, figure out what we can fit in the available time, make sure we have the appropriate clothing, verify I have enough meds to bring with, have appropriate footwear, and a host of other things. The operational requirements and steps for the one vastly exceed those of the other.

What is involved in getting a shipment of masks or ventilators and getting them from point A to B? We don't know, because no one ever tells us. Chances are, the people tasked with making it happen, or at least announcing they are making it happen, don't know themselves. Consequently, we remain in the dark, and understandably grow impatient. They _said_ it was happening soon. Why isn't it happening?

I have argued for a long time on government forums and social media that we do a piss-poor job of informing the public about the operational side, what is involved, in making X, Y, or Z happen. And if they don't know what the hold-up is, small wonder they/we become suspicious, mistrustful, and resentful. After all, "They promised". 

Why does this happen? I'll leave the paranoid conspiracy theories to others and start with the mundane: people find it hard to imagine what others do and don't know. And the more folks comprise "others", the harder it is to judge. It's just a fact of humans. Telling a joke that works to a half dozen friends at a party can be successful because we have a pretty good idea of what they know and are thinking. Telling the same joke to a crowd of 5,000 is likely to fall flat, unless the 5,000 is made up exclusively of folks who know you and how _you_ think (so you know roughly how _they_ think). So politicians and officials tend to hold back and keep things vague because they don't know how much the rest of us know.

As well, officials try to make announcements in as concise a manner as possible, and unless they are writing a large multi-page feature for the Saturday supplement, reporters tend not to expand very much and provide the missing detail either. Sometimes brevity enhances trust, and sometimes not so much.

Add to this the broad deficit in explanatory skill within the general populace. Most people are not very good explainers. They may be_ terrific_ promisers, but inept explainers. In general, we provide no training at the primary, secondary, or post-secondary level in how to explain clearly, so it is not surprising that even people who rise to the top of the ranks are often no more capable than the rest of us.

Finally, officials and politicians tend to live in a world comprised of others like themselves, who lead lives like their own. This is a companion to what I noted above, that it is hard to judge what others do and don't know or understand. It is even harder to imagine what they need to know, or are capable of figuring out for themselves, when they are very different people from oneself and all of those you regularly interact with in those busy 16-hr days. Back when I used to teach, I found one of the hardest tasks was reminding myself every September, that _these_ students knew virtually nothing of what the people who wrote the final exam last April know. We had all increased our collective knowledge between January and April, but now I had to remember that the people in front of me were at square one, and I had to adjust my expectations. Every day, you have to remind yourself that not everybody knows the same things, and even though you don't necessarily want to, you have to repeat yourself to fill in those knowledge gaps.

I can understand why people might view all of that as mere excuses. Fair enough. My job is to explain behaviour, not justify it. My point is that, even though I understand why it doesn't happen nearly often enough, *it still needs to happen*. Let folks know what's needed for XYZ to happen, what steps are involved and unavoidable, and how that might interfere with speed or something else that matters to us.

Back when I was working on government employee surveys, I regularly had to disabuse people - even those in directorships and such - of misconceptions, paranoid conspiracy theories, unrealistic expectations, and simple misinterpretations because no one at the top was filling in the details for anyone. And when that operational information was missing, folks filled in the gaps with nonsense. "Why is it taking so long?" "Well, the data has to be cleaned." "Do you mean it's being rigged?" "No, sometimes people put in contradictory information and it has to be fixed before you can tally things. That means every line has to be manually checked, and that takes man-hours". "Why didn't we get results about X?" "Because your organization is small enough that confidentiality would be breached if we provided it." "My boss can see what I wrote." "No they can't. WE can't even see what you wrote because we only get the data back in aggregate form." "How come I can't drill down in such-and-such a manner in to our departmental data?" "Because StatsCan would require a year or two, or more, to provide the millions of cross-tabulations to departments that would imply, and check each one of them for possible confidentiality breaches.". It went on and on like that, because the details about how things were done, and needed to be done, were never provided to regular employees.

What citizens everywhere get all too often is "Get in the car. We're going for a drive."


----------



## Electraglide

torndownunit said:


> I did see my Dr at the time, and I have been back since. The issue with me is that I had pneumonia in the past and chest issues in the winter aren't uncommon for me. And so many people had bugs at that point, that it seemed 'normal', and the very worst of it passed after a couple of weeks. The coughing lingered forever though, but I wasn't feeling sick. I was about to go back a couple of weeks back to let her know that I STILL have chest tightness but at this point I don't really want to go to a dr's office and risk getting anything, let alone Covid. So unless I run into more issues, I will wait it out.


Your choice and I hope it doesn't get worse. Having suffered from lung problems all my life I'd say at least phone. Let her decide if you should come in.


----------



## mhammer

But man oh man, I hadn't realized so many of you were that sick during the "conspicuous" period. Hope you're all feeling better. Also kinda glad the Ottawa jam for tomorrow was cancelled. I didn't want to have to scrub down my pedalboard and disinfect my guitar/s.

Stay well, dammit.


----------



## zontar

I had a sinus infection just before this all started getting serious.
So I still have some aftereffects of that & side effects of the medication.

Still worth keeping an eye on.

And I know people with serious asthma who are not going anywhere at this time.


----------



## allthumbs56

boyscout said:


> Yes but all the stories I've seen have indicated that the community-minded distillers were providing their new product to front-line workers in the pandemic.
> 
> They're making ethyl alcohol. It's very nearly as effective as the isopropyl alcohol usually used for medical purposes, but their distillation systems don't usually eliminate as much water so their products are more like 60% alcohol than the more-ideal 70%.
> 
> If you feel inclined to use your 18-year-old Scotch to sanitize yourself it will definitely help a lot - just use a little more and a little longer - but hope that the production of isopropyl steps up to meet demand so that you can sanitize your insides with the Scotch.


First batch of BrewDog hand sanitiser turned down by local hospital

In Scotland it's still gotta be good booze


----------



## boyscout

Electraglide said:


> I don't know about the states but haven't a lot of companies who make alcohol.....the drinking kind....in Canada started to put out hand sanitizers and from what is on line donated said sanitizers to where it's needed.....hospitals etc.?
> A comprehensive list of Canadian distilleries producing sanitizer during COVID-19 crisis


Here's another forming solution to the shortage of sanitizing products:

Drug Cartels Switch To Producing Hand Sanitizer


----------



## Electraglide

boyscout said:


> Here's another forming solution to the shortage of sanitizing products:
> 
> Drug Cartels Switch To Producing Hand Sanitizer


Could be. When you're finished making Cocaine you still have the gas/solvent solution left.....why not make a hand sanitizer you could also use to run your car with. Same with making Heroin. The Chloroform and HCl might make it a little dicey to use but it would kill the virus. Not too sure about Meth. 
Street vendors making a killing off sales of antibacterial gel


----------



## colchar




----------



## Electraglide

allthumbs56 said:


> First batch of BrewDog hand sanitiser turned down by local hospital
> 
> In Scotland it's still gotta be good booze


Never drank Scottish beer.


----------



## colchar

Chris Selley: They’re outlawing walks in the park over COVID-19 now. This cannot stand


----------



## sulphur

colchar said:


> Chris Selley: They’re outlawing walks in the park over COVID-19 now. This cannot stand


Some people are too stupid to follow simple rules, so they have to shut shit down so they do.
They shut down the boardwalk around the lake in town for the same reason here.


----------



## Johnny Spune

GuitarsCanada said:


> I'm going to throw this in for people to ponder. Think back to mid December and January. How many people came down with a nasty flu? I remember back to our Xmas dinner. We had 13 of us there. Within 3 weeks of that dinner every single one of us had a terrible flu, ever single person. My wife, who until this year, never get's sick. She had not one but two bouts with a flu and chest cold. My buddy who I have known for 35 years and see regularly came down with 2 severe chest ailments within 2 months. I also had 2 and one was real bad in the chest. My son ended up in the hospital with pneumonia and was treated with antibiotics. He claimed he had never been that sick in his life. I'm starting wonder now if we have not been living with this thing since January, albeit possibly another, weaker strain of it. Anyone else run into a long lasting and bad flu this year? The only flyer in the mix with us is that my Daughter and her husband had just returned from a cruise to Greece and Italy a few days before our dinner


Start of January. Dry cough, fatigue, aches, sore throat fever then to my chest. Rapidly went from clearing heavy flem to seizing up in my chest. Was weak long after and clearing my chest for 6 weeks. Had visited people at Xmas in apartment building that was also home to many new Canadians from other countries. 

Identital covid symptoms. 

Cue “Twilight Zone” music....

I’ll now expect to be kidnapped and held by government agents to draw blood for antibodies for.....”them”... 

More “Twilight Zone”music.....


----------



## player99

Fapping with hand sanitizer stings. But it's worth it.


----------



## tomee2

GuitarsCanada said:


> I'm going to throw this in for people to ponder. Think back to mid December and January. How many people came down with a nasty flu? I remember back to our Xmas dinner. We had 13 of us there. Within 3 weeks of that dinner every single one of us had a terrible flu, ever single person. My wife, who until this year, never get's sick. She had not one but two bouts with a flu and chest cold. My buddy who I have known for 35 years and see regularly came down with 2 severe chest ailments within 2 months. I also had 2 and one was real bad in the chest. My son ended up in the hospital with pneumonia and was treated with antibiotics. He claimed he had never been that sick in his life. I'm starting wonder now if we have not been living with this thing since January, albeit possibly another, weaker strain of it. Anyone else run into a long lasting and bad flu this year? The only flyer in the mix with us is that my Daughter and her husband had just returned from a cruise to Greece and Italy a few days before our dinner


Yes, my wife in early Feb. I said go get tested and she said for what? At that point all cases were « known » and no one was talking about community spread. But she is never sick, but this time it was a 5 day fever and cough. But no one else in our house got it!
And a coworker got it in Dec bad enough to be told to take 4 weeks off work with pneumonia. 
With all the travel to and from China to this country these days I wouldn’t be surprised if it was here in dec. or earlier.


----------



## colchar

tomee2 said:


> Yes, my wife in early Feb. I said go get tested and she said for what? At that point all cases were « known » and no one was talking about community spread. But she is never sick, but this time it was a 5 day fever and cough. But no one else in our house got it!
> And a coworker got it in Dec bad enough to be told to take 4 weeks off work with pneumonia.
> With all the travel to and from China to this country these days I wouldn’t be surprised if it was here in dec. or earlier.



In early February (I think) my younger brother had what he described as the worst flu of his life. Since then, he has had trouble breathing. He is a marathon runner so his lungs are usually very, very healthy. He still isn't at 100% yet.


----------



## tdotrob

player99 said:


> Fapping with hand sanitizer stings. But it's worth it.


Just cover the little hole at the top. No more sting.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

CDC now recomending masks.

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Jim DaddyO said:


> CDC now recomending masks.
> 
> Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)


We went to Canadian Tire today. I wanted to get a gas can for back-up. Store was fairly busy. Her and I were the only 2 people in the store with masks on. Staff wearing nothing, no masks or gloves


----------



## tomee2

colchar said:


> In early February (I think) my younger brother had what he described as the worst flu of his life. Since then, he has had trouble breathing. He is a marathon runner so his lungs are usually very, very healthy. He still isn't at 100% yet.


Exact same thing coworker and my wife got.


----------



## Johnny Spune

GuitarsCanada said:


> We went to Canadian Tire today. I wanted to get a gas can for back-up. Store was fairly busy. Her and I were the only 2 people in the store with masks on. Staff wearing nothing, no masks or gloves


Some stores won’t let you in the front door. Some stores have little to no precautions. Masks will take a bit for our society to get used to. But at least you protected yourself.


----------



## cdntac

GuitarsCanada said:


> We went to Canadian Tire today. I wanted to get a gas can for back-up. Store was fairly busy. Her and I were the only 2 people in the store with masks on. Staff wearing nothing, no masks or gloves


I wonder if that going to change tomorrow? I’m going to guess that they’re classified as a hardware store so will only have curb side pickup.

Go figure, we’ve realized our fridge isn’t keeping as cool as it used to. I’m hesitant to buy via online shopping at any of the usual appliance places. 

****Edited — just saw on the new that Home Depot will be curbside pickup only so I assume CT too.


----------



## Electraglide

player99 said:


> Fapping with hand sanitizer stings. But it's worth it.


What does your partner say? "Wash!"


----------



## player99

Electraglide said:


> What does your partner say? "Wash!"


I fapp alone.


----------



## bolero

Jim DaddyO said:


> CDC now recomending masks.
> 
> Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)


 well they sure took their goddamn time, didn't they?

now it will only take another few weeks, before people start reluctantly doing it


----------



## Doug Gifford

bolero said:


> well they sure took their goddamn time, didn't they?
> 
> now it will only take another few weeks, before people start reluctantly doing it


I suspect they were waiting until they were comfortable that health professionals had enough.


----------



## bolero

where is the CDC located? Canada? US?

oh look at this: you can machine wash & reuse your face masks:

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

also DIY instructions there too


----------



## bolero

aha!!

I can finally make use of that old ninja costume I have stored away


----------



## mhammer

bolero said:


> where is the CDC located? Canada? US?
> 
> oh look at this: you can machine wash & reuse your face masks:
> 
> Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)
> 
> also DIY instructions there too


Not sure if you're simply being glib, or asking a legit question. If the latter, they are headquartered in Atlanta. Clearly, you don't watch enough Walking Dead, or at least haven't watched it from early on.


----------



## mhammer

bolero said:


> aha!!
> 
> I can finally make use of that old ninja costume I have stored away


Maybe folks will start to have a different view of burquas and niqabs, now. What was viewed as backwards, discriminatory against women, and an offense to secularists may start to become perceived as maybe not so dumb after all. And while they are hot and sweaty, maybe going to Loblaw's and shopping with your balaclava on will start to look normal.


----------



## sulphur

mhammer said:


> Maybe folks will start to have a different view of burquas and niqabs, now. What was viewed as backwards, discriminatory against women, and an offense to secularists may start to become perceived as maybe not so dumb after all.


Didn't Quebec outlaw those? Are all face coverings outlawed there?


----------



## mhammer

sulphur said:


> Didn't Quebec outlaw those? Are all face coverings outlawed there?


For public servants, but not if you're just a private citizen taking your dog and/or children for a walk.

I remember my wife read a book in an undergrad elective on science fiction, in which earth was ravaged by a disease of some sort, and the human outliers became the most adapted of all, because the disease attacked what was in common about the majority. Sometimes, what looks like an aberration, anomaly, or exception can turn out to be useful and adaptive when circumstances change radically. It happens.


----------



## bolero

mhammer said:


> Not sure if you're simply being glib, or asking a legit question. If the latter, they are headquartered in Atlanta. Clearly, you don't watch enough Walking Dead, or at least haven't watched it from early on.


no, I got rid of my TV years ago

complete waste of time, other than reruns of Hogan's Hero's and Hitchhiker's Guide


----------



## bolero

allright, so this virus is conformed Aerosol transmittable now.....as in non-cough or sneeze, just breathing, right?

how far can the wind blow that stuff?

from yard to yard, between houses?

if many people are BBQ'ing in their adjacent backyards, and the virus can sustain for up to 3 hours in the air ( and regular UV light from the sun doesn't affect it, as it's not UV-C ) is that an issue?

or if you are walking 6 meters behind someone, downwind, can you catch it?

I know I can smell perfume wafting that far

can't say I've ever smelled a fart make it that far though


----------



## Guitar101

For those that think wearing a mask doesn't look cool, why do you care? No one will recognize you, your wearing a mask.


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> Maybe folks will start to have a different view of burquas and niqabs, now. What was viewed as backwards, discriminatory against women, and an offense to secularists may start to become perceived as maybe not so dumb after all. And while they are hot and sweaty, maybe going to Loblaw's and shopping with your balaclava on will start to look normal.


Saw a guy the other day, all dressed in black. Looked close to this.








Didn't know if he was a First Exalted Cyclops or not. From the sounds of it when he was talking to the cashier he had a mask on under his veil.


----------



## jb welder

bolero said:


> allright, so this virus is conformed Aerosol transmittable now.....as in non-cough or sneeze, just breathing, right?


Source please? I've seen the stuff about aerosol, just not as a viable method of transmission.


----------



## bolero

jb welder said:


> Source please? I've seen the stuff about aerosol, just not as a viable method of transmission.


from: New coronavirus may spread as an airborne aerosol, like SARS | Live Science

here is a direct link to the research doc ( PDF )

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v2.full.pdf

" Our results indicate that aerosol and fomite transmission of HCoV-19 are* plausible*, as the virus can remain viable and infectious in aerosols for multiple hours and on surfaces up to days."


----------



## Electraglide

This is from April 3. Sars-CoV-2 is the virus, Covid19 is the disease. An intersting point is there is the possiblity of tranmission thru the fecal/oral route. I guess that might mean that one way to get it is to kiss ass. Not conclusive with the aerosol transmission thing but, "infectious virus could not be cultured from air samplers". 
Important coronavirus updates for ophthalmologists
If it can be aerosolized and can be carried on the wind for hrs and distances and stay on surfaces for days (up to 17 on some of the cruise ships) is it safe to open your windows and doors then? That could be a conundrum for some folks. I'm wondering if the aerosol test was done outdoors or just indoors. "Assuming these initial results hold up to scrutiny, aerosol transmission of SARS-CoV-2 appears "plausible," the authors wrote — but several key questions remain unanswered." This sounds like a 'Maybe' answer to me.


----------



## Wardo

Everything to do with this is a maybe answer or we’ll see what happens in a week or two. Lots of conflicting info out there.


----------



## Doug Gifford

Wardo said:


> Everything to do with this is a maybe answer or we’ll see what happens in a week or two. Lots of conflicting info out there.


It gets to where you don't believe anything, which is like knowing nothing but takes longer.


----------



## Guncho




----------



## colchar

Johnny Spune said:


> Some stores won’t let you in the front door. Some stores have little to no precautions.



I popped into a No Frills today because there was no lineup outside. They had a security guard there, I just happened by during a lull. Anyway, I got in and grabbed a few things then lined up to check out. They had us lined up down the aisles, staying six feet apart. Fair enough, but here's the thing - those aisles are only a couple of feet wide and if you line up everyone waiting to pay along the aisles then they and the people trying to get stuff from those aisles are forced into close contact anyway!


----------



## colchar

cdntac said:


> I wonder if that going to change tomorrow? I’m going to guess that they’re classified as a hardware store so will only have curb side pickup.
> 
> Go figure, we’ve realized our fridge isn’t keeping as cool as it used to. I’m hesitant to buy via online shopping at any of the usual appliance places.
> 
> ****Edited — just saw on the new that Home Depot will be curbside pickup only so I assume CT too.


Damn, what a pain in the arse.


----------



## colchar

mhammer said:


> Maybe folks will start to have a different view of burquas and niqabs, now. What was viewed as backwards, discriminatory against women, and an offense to secularists may start to become perceived as maybe not so dumb after all.



No they are still dumb, and all those other things as well. If their purpose was sanitary you might have a point. But it isn't.


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> Maybe folks will start to have a different view of burquas and niqabs, now. What was viewed as backwards, discriminatory against women, and an offense to secularists may start to become perceived as maybe not so dumb after all. And while they are hot and sweaty, maybe going to Loblaw's and shopping with your balaclava on will start to look normal.


Burquas and niqabs etc.. Just another form of scarf like this








and this









Toss a shawl on the shoulders and you have an instant face mask if needed. Not to sure if these are legal or not in quebec. BTW you realize that bill 21 says that quebec is a lay state what ever that is.


----------



## player99

colchar said:


> I popped into a No Frills today because there was no lineup outside. They had a security guard there, I just happened by during a lull. Anyway, I got in and grabbed a few things then lined up to check out. They had us lined up down the aisles, staying six feet apart. Fair enough, but here's the thing - those aisles are only a couple of feet wide and if you line up everyone waiting to pay along the aisles then they and the people trying to get stuff from those aisles are forced into close contact anyway!


Another mistake was to limit store hours in Ontario. All it did was condense the shoppers. Our Walmart and No Frills used to be open until 10pm. But the govt mandated 8pm closures so the 9pm-10pm quiet time is now packed store at 7pm- 8pm.


----------



## mhammer

Electraglide said:


> BTW you realize that bill 21 says that quebec is a lay state what ever that is.


I think it means they only allow sales of Lay's snack products. Though maybe there is a notwithstanding clause for Yum-Yum chips.


----------



## mhammer

colchar said:


> I popped into a No Frills today because there was no lineup outside. They had a security guard there, I just happened by during a lull. Anyway, I got in and grabbed a few things then lined up to check out. They had us lined up down the aisles, staying six feet apart. Fair enough, but here's the thing - those aisles are only a couple of feet wide and if you line up everyone waiting to pay along the aisles then they and the people trying to get stuff from those aisles are forced into close contact anyway!


A perfect example of what I meant in my lengthy earlier post about officials being not so great about understanding/explaining/conveying "the operational side". Formal principles about how things are _supposed_ to be done is wonderful, but they may not anticipate the realities of all situations, and those tasked with implementing the principles are not assured of understanding _how_ they should be implemented.

FWIW, saw our neighbour the cabinet minister getting her exercise earlier this morning, walking around the block a few times in her sweat pants while the street was empty, phone glued to her ear. Must be hard to do that job stuck in the house. You have to wonder what all those folks have as their home equipment, that they now have to rely on for carrying out the same things they would normally go to the office to do, and have assistants to tend to. 

My wife has several work meetings coming up that are supposed to be conducted on Zoom. She brought her work laptop home, but the department instructed them not to use their work machine for Zoom, because of the security risks. I gather I.T. has not scrutinized it closely enough to know if it has any security issues, or has any solutions to prevent whatever issues it might have. A few nights ago, I heard a Ph.D. student interviewed who was holding her dissertation defense on Zoom, and it was interfered with by external parties. I learned a new term: "Zoom-bombing". My wife tried a Zoom get-together with "the girls" last night, but it failed everyone involved, so they just did a conference phone call.

I guess if one is explicitly set up for it, as TV stations and such already are, it can function quite seamlessly. But for the rest of the world, accustomed to working in collective spaces, and using telecomm equipment for little else beyond documents and e-mail, relying on it to do your job in "the normal way" can be hit or miss, with miss probably superceding hit.


----------



## Guitar101

I have a Zoom meeting scheduled today for my Grand Nieces birthday (twins). Sure hope we don't get Zoom Bombed.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

mhammer said:


> Maybe folks will start to have a different view of burquas and niqabs, now. What was viewed as backwards, discriminatory against women, and an offense to secularists may start to become perceived as maybe not so dumb after all. And while they are hot and sweaty, maybe going to Loblaw's and shopping with your balaclava on will start to look normal.


I doubt it


----------



## boyscout

I guess this thread is for collecting all the extraordinary causes and effects of the pandemic, including this:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1245790985147351041
 Thank you Sir Andrew!


----------



## Jim DaddyO

mhammer said:


> My wife has several work meetings coming up that are supposed to be conducted on Zoom.





Guitar101 said:


> I have a Zoom meeting scheduled today


Haven't heard of Zoom-bombing? Find out why the FBI has issued a warning about the teleconferencing platform | CBC News



_Keep VTC meetings private by issuing users a password or employing the "waiting room" function, which requires the host to invite each guest individually._
_Don't share invitation links on social media._
_Keep software updated to stay on top of any security patches provided by VTC companies._


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> I think it means they only allow sales of Lay's snack products. Though maybe there is a notwithstanding clause for Yum-Yum chips.


How about V Cut from the Philippines? A lot better than Lays. Your beer and cheese should go with your chips and not be in them and ketchup belongs on fries if you don't have gravy......but no cheese curds on fries.


----------



## Electraglide

My cardiologist is supposed to call me on Tuesday morning. Hope he doesn't want to do some sort of video call and I hope I can understand him better than the first cardiologist. If not he'll have to send me an e-mail.


----------



## mhammer

Jim DaddyO said:


> Haven't heard of Zoom-bombing? Find out why the FBI has issued a warning about the teleconferencing platform | CBC News
> 
> 
> 
> _Keep VTC meetings private by issuing users a password or employing the "waiting room" function, which requires the host to invite each guest individually._
> _Don't share invitation links on social media._
> _Keep software updated to stay on top of any security patches provided by VTC companies._


In the "good old days", when Macs comprised a fairly small, though uber-loyal, segment of the personal computer market, Apple could brag about their general immunity to viruses, relative to MS-Windows-based machines. Part of that likely did come from differences in the operating systems. But another part, not to be underestimated, was that by being a MUCH bigger target, more malware-developers focussed their attention on Windows, searching for whatever ****** there might be in the armour, and largely ignoring Macs as not worth their while.

With huge uptake in Zoom use, now that people can't hold meetings or do other things that Skype and Facetime can't successfully negotiate, Zoom has become a similarly big target.


----------



## keto

mhammer said:


> In the "good old days", when Macs comprised a fairly small, though uber-loyal, segment of the personal computer market, Apple could brag about their general immunity to viruses, relative to MS-Windows-based machines. Part of that likely did come from differences in the operating systems. But another part, not to be underestimated, was that by being a MUCH bigger target, more malware-developers focussed their attention on Windows, searching for whatever ****** there might be in the armour, and largely ignoring Macs as not worth their while.
> 
> With huge uptake in Zoom use, now that people can't hold meetings or do other things that Skype and Facetime can't successfully negotiate, Zoom has become a similarly big target.


Forget Zoom: Skype unveils free 'Meet Now' video calls | Tom's Guide


----------



## mhammer

Which, I imagine, Skype has thrown hundreds of employees at in an effort to make sure, in a matter of two weeks, that it is absolutely bulletproof when it comes to meetings that dozens of people can walk in and out of without any designated fixed list of permitted persons.

And it's not just the software itself. Imagine that a kitchen knife came with a 40-page manual you had to read in order to use it safely. Ultimately, the software is going to rely on the end-user attending to a wide variety of aspects of their machine, co-existing software, settings, etc. Nothing is going to be as straightforward as using a knife.


----------



## Distortion

Looking at the Canada stats today. Only 27 new deaths and the curve is pointing down. Possibly the social distancing is working. First day for the down turn that I can see.


----------



## Lola

*HONEY, I’M *(ALWAYS) *HOME*! If you live with a partner or a roommate, coronavirus quarantine isn’t just about managing your own needs and anxieties. It’s about finding a way to coexist with someone and all of _their_ needs and anxieties, every minute of every day in a confined space for an undisclosed amount of time. If you think that should be *easy *because you already live together and love one another, you’re *wrong*, and you know it.


----------



## GuitarsCanada




----------



## Frenchy99

Lola said:


> *HONEY, I’M *(ALWAYS) *HOME*! If you live with a partner or a roommate, coronavirus quarantine isn’t just about managing your own needs and anxieties. It’s about finding a way to coexist with someone and all of _their_ needs and anxieties, every minute of every day in a confined space for an undisclosed amount of time. If you think that should be *easy *because you already live together and love one another, you’re *wrong*, and you know it.



Having a large home and property really helps for such a weird predicament. I am able to avoid my wife completely if I would be so inclined.

Id really hate being in an apartment or condo right now.


----------



## Frenchy99

Distortion said:


> Looking at the Canada stats today. Only 27 new deaths and the curve is pointing down. Possibly the social distancing is working. First day for the down turn that I can see.


Stats are not in for the last 24 hrs...


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Lola said:


> *HONEY, I’M *(ALWAYS) *HOME*! If you live with a partner or a roommate, coronavirus quarantine isn’t just about managing your own needs and anxieties. It’s about finding a way to coexist with someone and all of _their_ needs and anxieties, every minute of every day in a confined space for an undisclosed amount of time. If you think that should be *easy *because you already live together and love one another, you’re *wrong*, and you know it.


All depends on what your relationship is all about. My wife has been my best friend for over 20 years and we do absolutely everything together. We are having no issues at all.


----------



## GuitarT

Lola said:


> *HONEY, I’M *(ALWAYS) *HOME*! If you live with a partner or a roommate, coronavirus quarantine isn’t just about managing your own needs and anxieties. It’s about finding a way to coexist with someone and all of _their_ needs and anxieties, every minute of every day in a confined space for an undisclosed amount of time. If you think that should be *easy *because you already live together and love one another, you’re *wrong*, and you know it.


Nope, not wrong. It's been great. My wife and I have been best friends since we met. Loving all the time we're having together now.


----------



## allthumbs56

GuitarsCanada said:


> All depends on what your relationship is all about. My wife has been my best friend for over 20 years and we do absolutely everything together. We are having no issues at all.


IIRC you used to post pics of Marnie holding your very nice guitar collection. An attractive woman willing to pose with guitars is pretty much the dating profile we all seek here. Lucky guy


----------



## GuitarsCanada

allthumbs56 said:


> IIRC you used to post pics of Marnie holding your very nice guitar collection. An attractive woman willing to pose with guitars is pretty much the dating profile we all seek here. Lucky guy


I consider myself blessed to have met her. Got real lucky and will never forget that.


----------



## Lola

GuitarsCanada said:


> I consider myself blessed to have met her. Got real lucky and will never forget that.
> 
> View attachment 303704


maybe.....she got lucky!


----------



## Lincoln

I just got a SCAM TEXT saying the government of Canada has my first Covid 19 payment ready, and all they need is my banking info to deposit it into my account.

sign of the times.......


----------



## mhammer

Lola said:


> *HONEY, I’M *(ALWAYS) *HOME*! If you live with a partner or a roommate, coronavirus quarantine isn’t just about managing your own needs and anxieties. It’s about finding a way to coexist with someone and all of _their_ needs and anxieties, every minute of every day in a confined space for an undisclosed amount of time. If you think that should be *easy *because you already live together and love one another, you’re *wrong*, and you know it.


For a lot of folks, it's going to be intense practice for retirement.


----------



## mhammer

GuitarsCanada said:


> I consider myself blessed to have met her. Got real lucky and will never forget that.
> 
> View attachment 303704


WaIt. Steve Vai has gone trans? Not that he isn't fetching as a woman, but WHAT IS HAPPENING!! *WHAT IS HAPPENING!!!*
*AIIIIIIEEEEEE!!! *#*(*#*eek:*


----------



## ZeroGravity

Jim DaddyO said:


> Haven't heard of Zoom-bombing? Find out why the FBI has issued a warning about the teleconferencing platform | CBC News
> 
> 
> 
> _Keep VTC meetings private by issuing users a password or employing the "waiting room" function, which requires the host to invite each guest individually._
> _Don't share invitation links on social media._
> _Keep software updated to stay on top of any security patches provided by VTC companies._


Like a lot of online security issues, had people used them then there would be virtually no issues. Zoom has now turned on passwords and lobby functions as default, which similarly had they done that in the first place, there would be only isolated incidents of bombing.


----------



## tomee2

Lola said:


> *HONEY, I’M *(ALWAYS) *HOME*! If you live with a partner or a roommate, coronavirus quarantine isn’t just about managing your own needs and anxieties. It’s about finding a way to coexist with someone and all of _their_ needs and anxieties, every minute of every day in a confined space for an undisclosed amount of time. If you think that should be *easy *because you already live together and love one another, you’re *wrong*, and you know it.


So far so good, but I did get a cease and desist order from her on talking about Coronavirus today. I guess I’m looking at the stats too much...
Otherwise, we’re both normally somewhat antisocial people so she’s in heaven right now with her books and Netflix, and absorbed in work, and I’m doing my thing, and the kids are avoiding us as teenagers will do. Luckily, we have a house and yard so plenty of space.

I’ve been working from home for 3 weeks now. All PCs and a screen came home, along with a chair, and going in now requires permission and a good reason.


----------



## Lola

mhammer said:


> For a lot of folks, it's going to be intense practice for retirement.


I have decided never ever to retire. This is absolute hell for me. I hate it. Always trying to find something to occupy myself with. I can’t just sit around and do nothing. I don’t even know what the word “relax” means.


----------



## mhammer

You have to wonder just how many professional athletes have a great big 19 emblazoned on their uniform, and how many of them will request a new number when all of this is over. Not that the number itself is somehow magic. But I'm sure none of them will want to be the butt of jokes should their team lose a game.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

Lola said:


> maybe.....she got lucky!


She always tell's me so. But I still think I got the better end of the deal


----------



## mhammer

Lola said:


> I have decided never ever to retire. This is absolute hell for me. I hate it. Always trying to find something to occupy myself with. I can’t just sit around and do nothing.


I always thought I would be the guy who turned out the lights and shut off the power in my organization after everyone else had left. But here we are.
During my doctoral studies in psychology of aging, we interviewed and tested a whole big pile of retirees. I'd ask them when they could come in for the 2nd session, and the little black books would come out, and the flipping began. "I can fit you in between 2 and 3, a week from this coming Thursday. Does that work?". Clearly money has something to do with it, but for a lot of folks it's surprising how much busier than working life retirement can be.

Of course what makes this period right now _different_ from retirement is that we can't get together with our bridge or book club, can't travel, can't eat out with friends, or can't attend religious services or go to that continuing education course we always wanted to.


----------



## Dorian2

Lincoln said:


> I just got a SCAM TEXT saying the government of Canada has my first Covid 19 payment ready, and all they need is my banking info to deposit it into my account.
> 
> sign of the times.......


Thanks for the heads up. Let's not forget that the everyday Dickwads are still out their ready to pounced on any opportunity to take advantage of people.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

WARMINGTON: Expect to see military vehicles on GTA roads


----------



## Electraglide

Lincoln said:


> I just got a SCAM TEXT saying the government of Canada has my first Covid 19 payment ready, and all they need is my banking info to deposit it into my account.
> 
> sign of the times.......


I just got an e-mail from my bank about signing up for direct deposit from CRA in relation to CERB payments. I'm already signed up for direct deposit and I don't qualify for CERB payments. I think this one is good because the mentioned my name but I still wouldn't click the CRA link. They say the one time GST payment is supposed to be out on the 9th and if you qualify for GST it will go where ever your GST check goes. 
"
 
Dear 

The Government of Canada has announced the  *Canada Emergency Response Benefit (CERB)*, a new financial relief program for Canadians impacted by COVID-19. Applications will open on April 6, 2020. If you’re planning to apply for the CERB, we encourage you to enroll for the Canada Revenue Agency Direct Deposit (CRA Direct Deposit).

CRA Direct Deposit is a quick and secure way to receive CERB payments, and now we’ve made it easy to set up directly through RBC Online Banking1 and the RBC Mobile1 app in just a few simple steps.

*Please note that enrolling for CRA Direct Deposit does not register you for the CERB.* The CRA administers the CERB. To learn more and apply, please visit the  *CRA website*.

* The benefits of CRA Direct Deposit *
By enrolling for CRA Direct Deposit, all amounts paid to you by the CRA will be automatically deposited into your bank account. This includes the CERB, income tax refunds, GST/HST credits, Canada child benefit payments, and other applicable payments.

* Why you should enroll for CRA Direct Deposit *
•
Enrollment is simple

•
Receiving money is fast

•
Transactions are secure

If you are already registered for CRA Direct Deposit, you don’t need to register again unless you want to update your banking information.

* Register today *
We know these benefits are important to you, so enrol through RBC Online Banking or the RBC Mobile app today.

*Learn More About CRA Direct Deposit*
Sean Amato-Gauci
EVP, Personal and Commercial Banking








COVID-19: These are extraordinary times. Know that, now more than ever, we remain committed to providing you with the support & guidance you may need. For more information, visit our  *COVID‑19 site* for updates."


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> You have to wonder just how many professional athletes have a great big 19 emblazoned on their uniform, and how many of them will request a new number when all of this is over. Not that the number itself is somehow magic. But I'm sure none of them will want to be the butt of jokes should their team lose a game.


The Leaf's should be used to that.


----------



## Electraglide

GuitarsCanada said:


> WARMINGTON: Expect to see military vehicles on GTA roads


The Military comes out for all sorts of emergencies....flood, fires etc. so this is no different. Plus they have portable freezer units if need be.


----------



## bolero

GuitarsCanada said:


> WARMINGTON: Expect to see military vehicles on GTA roads


 I think this is a good idea. it will help police respond to any looting or other lowlife POS opportunists that try to take advantage

Also the military in the US has been helping out immensely there, distributing food and supplies, and medical support

I should hope Canada is planning to do the same


----------



## Jim DaddyO

We have the maintenance people working on a garage on a lot in the park today. The guy, his son, a contractor and at least one other person all working away despite the freeze on residential work Ford announced.


----------



## Electraglide

COVID-19 - Frequently asked questions: Increase to the GST/HST credit amount - Canada.ca


----------



## torndownunit

Jim DaddyO said:


> We have the maintenance people working on a garage on a lot in the park today. The guy, his son, a contractor and at least one other person all working away despite the freeze on residential work Ford announced.


I think any work that was in progress (before Saturday) is allowed to be completed? Or did I read that wrong?


----------



## Electraglide

Jim DaddyO said:


> We have the maintenance people working on a garage on a lot in the park today. The guy, his son, a contractor and at least one other person all working away despite the freeze on residential work Ford announced.


If they are maintenance people working in a park does this qualify as residential and if it's maintenance on a existing building is it frozen?


----------



## Frenchy99

Well, it had to happened.

My mother in law best friend (like an aunt to my wife for the last 50 years) passed away this morning from the Chinese Wuhan virus.

She was in a elderly home in Ville Lasalle Montreal. The worst part is that none of us were able( her children included) to visit her in the last 3 weeks since the homes are in total shut down due to the Pandemic.

So... She died alone...


----------



## Electraglide

Frenchy99 said:


> Well, it had to happened.
> 
> My mother in law best friend (like an aunt to my wife for the last 50 years) passed away this morning from the Chinese Wuhan virus.
> 
> She was in a elderly home in Ville Lasalle Montreal. The worst part is that none of us were able( her children included) to visit her in the last 3 weeks since the homes are in total shut down due to the Pandemic.
> 
> So... She died alone...


Sorry about that.


----------



## Jim DaddyO

torndownunit said:


> work that was in progress





Electraglide said:


> does this qualify as residential


My understanding is that all residential is to be shut down except to secure the site yesterday. This is getting a garage built for a mobile home being moved onto the lot (not here yet) and is in no way maintenance or equipment related. It's a home that will be put up for sale.


----------



## JHall55

Jim DaddyO said:


> My understanding is that all residential is to be shut down except to secure the site yesterday. This is getting a garage built for a mobile home being moved onto the lot (not here yet) and is in no way maintenance or equipment related. It's a home that will be put up for sale.


Pretty sure residential construction that already has a permit issued is still allowed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jim DaddyO

JHall55 said:


> Pretty sure residential construction that already has a permit issued is still allowed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Could be...I thought it was stopped, but I've been wrong before. I thought the idea was to keep construction crews from wandering around and being together.

Ontario Extends Business Closures to Stop the Spread of COVID-19


_Only critical construction projects will continue, including industrial projects such as refineries and petrochemical plants and infrastructure projects such as new hospitals, roads and bridges. New starts in residential projects will stop, while residential construction that is near completion will continue.
_
No where near complete....so...????


----------



## GuitarT

Lola said:


> I have decided never ever to retire. This is absolute hell for me. I hate it. Always trying to find something to occupy myself with. I can’t just sit around and do nothing. I don’t even know what the word “relax” means.


Play guitar.


----------



## bolero

ok, I finally saw something related to the whole 5G theory. 

*edit* NOT worth watching, although possibly interesting


----------



## 10409

bolero said:


> ok, I finally saw something related to the whole 5G theory. worth watching, and interesting


Whenever someone introduces a topic as “this whole <insert topic here> thing” you know he’s on some stupid shit. “Let’s say you were a marine biologist studying dolphins for hundreds of years” yeah good analogy tons of 200 year old dolphin pros appreciate the tip of the hat


----------



## bolero

I am not clear on something with that guy: is he implying the Covid 19 virus is not contagious?


----------



## 10409

Viral video claiming 5G caused pandemic easily debunked | CBC News


----------



## 10409

I think it’s time we treat fake medical experts the same way Americans treat stolen valour


----------



## bolero

mike_oxbig said:


> Viral video claiming 5G caused pandemic easily debunked | CBC News


 yeah, good link, thanks for that

I will admit, I have suspected the efffects of transmitters & cell phones on human health, but not to the extent of something like this


----------



## 10409

bolero said:


> yeah, good link, thanks for that
> 
> I will admit, I have suspected the efffects of transmitters & cell phones on human health, but not to the extent of something like this


Maybe I’d take the 5g thing serious enough to look into if the timing didn’t coincide with the pipeline protestors and Area 51 crowd being home and needing something to hate. I’ve put my face up to the microwave glass to see if the cheese was melted as recently as last night. I think we’ve figured this stuff out by now.


----------



## bolero

mike_oxbig said:


> Maybe I’d take the 5g thing serious enough to look into if the timing didn’t coincide with the pipeline protestors and Area 51 crowd being home and needing something to hate. I’ve put my face up to the microwave glass to see if the cheese was melted as recently as last night. I think we’ve figured this stuff out by now.


I used to get crazy muscle spasms in my right thigh, exactly where my cell phone was always carried in my front pocket

also would get a splitting headache quite often, if I raised my phone up in proximity to my ear. And in sync, if I happened to be near a stereo or something that picked up a cell signal

this was with an older generation Motorola cell phone


----------



## Guitar101

GuitarsCanada said:


> She always tell's me so. But I still think I got the better end of the deal


I agree. You do tend to get a little negative and complain a lot.^)@#


----------



## Lola

GuitarT said:


> Play guitar.


I already do that for at least 3 -8 hrs a day already, everyday, 7 days a week.


----------



## 10409

bolero said:


> I used to get crazy muscle spasms in my right thigh, exactly where my cell phone was always carried in my front pocket
> 
> also would get a splitting headache quite often, if I raised my phone up in proximity to my ear. And in sync, if I happened to be near a stereo or something that picked up a cell signal
> 
> this was with an older generation Motorola cell phone


Sometimes I’ll be using my phone and I’ll think i feel it beep in my pocket so i’ll reach for it in my pocket with the hand that isn’t holding it. But I’m pretty sure I’ve smoked too many of the pots for my own experiences to be used as a public reference.


----------



## vadsy

Lola said:


> I already do that for at least 3 -8 hrs a day already, everyday, 7 days a week.


thats a good thing, you are gonna be ready to busk as soon as this is all over


----------



## davetcan

mhammer said:


> WaIt. Steve Vai has gone trans? Not that he isn't fetching as a woman, but WHAT IS HAPPENING!! *WHAT IS HAPPENING!!!*
> *AIIIIIIEEEEEE!!! *#*(*#*eek:*


Turned out a hell of a lot better than Bruce Jenner.


----------



## GuitarsCanada




----------



## Lola




----------



## Lola

Someone out there is having a worse day then you and I.

So, let’s all be kind to one another.


----------



## mhammer

Lola said:


> Someone out there is having a worse day then you and I.
> 
> So, let’s all be kind to one another.


As good a credo as one can follow.


----------



## silvertonebetty

You know the corona virus really shows who your friends are. I don’t think I have ever dealt with anything like this before. But o well things happen 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Eric Reesor

Lola said:


> Someone out there is having a worse day then you and I.
> 
> So, let’s all be kind to one another.


Yesterday the answers to this crisis became clear to my 3 year old granddaughter who was wondering why we were all so concerned and worried about every little thing.

My daughter and 3 year old granddaughter did the artwork. What is obvious to a 3 year old child and her mother must become obvious to us all and soon. We just made noise along with just about everyone else in Victoria to support first responders. There is still much more that we can do,

I have some extra essentials that I can give to the huge numbers of homeless who camp in Victoria area because they would freeze to death elsewhere in Canada.

Little things in this time of crisis can make a huge difference. Instead of hoarding and being a part of the problems we need to do a complete 180 as a people. We can do it and Canada is a country which can do much more than many other countries. If all of us do just a little the differences will be enormous and we will all pull through this much quicker and be much stronger as a peoples for it. Kindness and self sacrifice without any strings attached in a crisis is our saving grace as humans. This message now adorns our front window.


----------



## Kenmac

Frenchy99 said:


> Well, it had to happened.
> 
> My mother in law best friend (like an aunt to my wife for the last 50 years) passed away this morning from the Chinese Wuhan virus.
> 
> She was in a elderly home in Ville Lasalle Montreal. The worst part is that none of us were able( her children included) to visit her in the last 3 weeks since the homes are in total shut down due to the Pandemic.
> 
> So... She died alone...


My condolences.


----------



## Eric Reesor

On the theme of fighting the effects of what is going on, donate your supermarket card points to reputable local food banks, money if you can and make certain that the company issuing the credit points does donate to the food banks. Give whatever you can when you can. And these gestures will add up and make huge differences to those who cannot afford the basics of life. True giving takes thought and consideration. For those who hoarded all the toilet paper, well I hope you know how to cook it!

Don't just give away out of date goods and cans with dents give some of the best you have and be thoughtful in giving. Don't forget that large numbers of us are two paychecks away from the street and living on credit is not an option for a great many in this country and elsewhere. Pay extra for used goods at the the Salvation Army stores that are open and just ask them to put the extra cash into the facilities funds they run for seniors. This is the best way I have found over the years of giving back if you can only afford even a few dollars here and there.

These are only the easiest ways that I can think of to help make a difference and turn things around, the old saw "charity begins at home" is a truth that we all must acknowledge. This is the only way we can go on to help make a difference and help turn this crisis into an opportunity to help change some of the worst damage that greed and hoarding within our society has caused.


----------



## tdotrob

Is this for real?

Tiger at Bronx Zoo tests positive for coronavirus: U.S. officials


----------



## GuitarsCanada

tdotrob said:


> Is this for real?
> 
> Tiger at Bronx Zoo tests positive for coronavirus: U.S. officials


That's correct. They have known this for a while now. However, according to all reports animals cannot pass ot directly to humans. That's the info right now


----------



## bolero

mike_oxbig said:


> Whenever someone introduces a topic as “this whole <insert topic here> thing” you know he’s on some stupid shit. “Let’s say you were a marine biologist studying dolphins for hundreds of years” yeah good analogy tons of 200 year old dolphin pros appreciate the tip of the hat


 honestly, when I heard him misuse the term "quantum leap" and raise his arm up in the air, I immediately suspected his credentials


----------



## Electraglide

GuitarsCanada said:


> That's correct. They have known this for a while now. However, according to all reports animals cannot pass ot directly to humans. That's the info right now


"Animals cannot pass directly to humans"? Don't they figure it went from bats to humans? If not directly who or what is in between? Seems the cats got it from a worker so why not the reverse......or is this another "maybe/we don't know" sort of thing?


----------



## Milkman

davetcan said:


> Turned out a hell of a lot better than Bruce Jenner.



Pardon?

Sorry, I searched for the post but surely this is just a joke...…?


----------



## sulphur

Electraglide said:


> "Animals cannot pass directly to humans"? Don't they figure it went from bats to humans? If not directly who or what is in between? Seems the cats got it from a worker so why not the reverse......or is this another "maybe/we don't know" sort of thing?


From what I hear, it's when butchering the animal that is infected that it can be transmitted.

There's also a bovine coronavirus, not related to this latest one, but cattle are inocultaed for/against that virus.


----------



## Milkman




----------



## mhammer

Milkman said:


> Pardon?
> 
> Sorry, I searched for the post but surely this is just a joke...…?


Yes. I made a tongue-in-cheek comment on a pic of the original poster's wife shown holding an Ibanez Jem, which is most closely associated with guitarist Steve Vai. Things descended quickly from there. It happens.....a lot.....here.


----------



## Milkman

mhammer said:


> Yes. I made a tongue-in-cheek comment on a pic of the original poster's wife shown holding an Ibanez Jem, which is most closely associated with guitarist Steve Vai. Things descended quickly from there. It happens.....a lot.....here.



No problem, Just thought I missed something.

Although Vai is a superior guitarist (as far as I know) Mrs. GC makes a far more fetching lady.

I hope that isn't inappropriate. It is respectfully intended.


----------



## knight_yyz

Edited. Original link deleted


----------



## mhammer

Caught the message from HRH last night. Gotta say, Her Majesty's a pretty nice girl. The little oblique reference to Vera Lynn at the end was a nice touch.


----------



## Milkman

mhammer said:


> Caught the message from HRH last night. Gotta say, Her Majesty's a pretty nice girl. The little oblique reference to Vera Lynn at the end was a nice touch.


Agreed. I'm of the opinion that the monarchy should be discontinued at least in terms of the connection to Canada, but Queen E is a classy lady and I've always admired and respected her.

And I also caught and appreciated the Vera Lynn reference.


----------



## davetcan

Milkman said:


> Pardon?
> 
> Sorry, I searched for the post but surely this is just a joke...…?


LOL, yes it was a joke. Sorry, my sense of humour can be warped at times.


----------



## Milkman

davetcan said:


> LOL, yes it was a joke. Sorry my sense of humour can be warped at times.



Your sense of humour is just fine. In today's world ANYthing is possible.


----------



## Lola




----------



## GuitarsCanada

mhammer said:


> Yes. I made a tongue-in-cheek comment on a pic of the original poster's wife shown holding an Ibanez Jem, which is most closely associated with guitarist Steve Vai. Things descended quickly from there. It happens.....a lot.....here.


----------



## keto

Ontario salesman claims Amway product will filter COVID-19 virus


----------



## mhammer

GuitarsCanada said:


> View attachment 303804


Well that settles it. And it also puts my mind at ease. No more of these "Didja ever notice you never see those two people in the_ same_ place at the _same_ time?" paranoid conspiracy notions. I can now free up that time and allocate it to _other_ suspicions.  Thanks.


----------



## laristotle

keto said:


> Ontario salesman claims Amway product will filter COVID-19 virus


_But when confronted by Global News about his marketing statements, Sennaike denied he did anything wrong.

“I’m not convincing people, it’s a preventative measure,” he said, after realizing he was now on camera.

“I’m really disappointed you’re doing this. This is against my human rights,” he said, as he walked out the hotel and into the parking lot._


----------



## Dorian2

lol. Playing his "human rights card".


----------



## Milkman

laristotle said:


> _But when confronted by Global News about his marketing statements, Sennaike denied he did anything wrong.
> 
> “I’m not convincing people, it’s a preventative measure,” he said, after realizing he was now on camera.
> 
> “I’m really disappointed you’re doing this. This is against my human rights,” he said, as he walked out the hotel and into the parking lot._


And people wonder why the sales profession has such a stigma. What a maroon.


----------



## Eric Reesor

keto said:


> Ontario salesman claims Amway product will filter COVID-19 virus


No doubt a major "direct distributor" with a garage full of "product" they purchased to eventually peddle for distribution by other would be direct distributors. LOL

I just wonder when the other pyramid pseudo religious sales group from Socal is going to claim that the all mighty Elron has the secret answer to Covid, that is provided you follow the steps into their temple with your wallet and credit card in hand and distance yourself from your family and friends. Then become one with the true financial light shining only on the true believers in Dianetics.


----------



## 10409

Milkman said:


> View attachment 303784


I wish the guy who made that awesome post had just had one person proof read it before it was shared 10 million times lol


----------



## GuitarsCanada

laristotle said:


> _But when confronted by Global News about his marketing statements, Sennaike denied he did anything wrong.
> 
> “I’m not convincing people, it’s a preventative measure,” he said, after realizing he was now on camera.
> 
> “I’m really disappointed you’re doing this. This is against my human rights,” he said, as he walked out the hotel and into the parking lot._


Keep them borders wide open. We need more like him here


----------



## keto

mike_oxbig said:


> I wish the guy who made that awesome post had just had one person proof read it before it was shared 10 million times lol


Hey, it's not at all what it puports to be so what's a few typos or some bad grammar?

per snopes: "The picture actually dates from 1958, during the Algerian War (i.e., a war for independence waged against French forces in Colonial Algeria). And it depicts a starving donkey that was rescued by a member of the French Foreign Legion who carried it back to his base, where the animal was nursed back to health, given the name “Bambi,” and adopted as a unit mascot."


----------



## 10409

I won’t pretend I’m better. I’ve found and edited out typos like a week later. Just usually a million people haven’t quoted it by then


----------



## 10409

keto said:


> Hey, it's not at all what it puports to be so what's a few typos or some bad grammar?
> 
> per snopes: "The picture actually dates from 1958, during the Algerian War (i.e., a war for independence waged against French forces in Colonial Algeria). And it depicts a starving donkey that was rescued by a member of the French Foreign Legion who carried it back to his base, where the animal was nursed back to health, given the name “Bambi,” and adopted as a unit mascot."


You mean someone fabricated a touching story to keep jackasses in line? Sounds familiar


----------



## keto

mike_oxbig said:


> You mean someone fabricated a touching story to keep jackasses in line? Sounds familiar


sorry for the stealth edit, but you nailed it


----------



## Electraglide

Eric Reesor said:


> No doubt a major "direct distributor" with a garage full of "product" they purchased to eventually peddle for distribution by other would be direct distributors. LOL
> 
> I just wonder when the other pyramid pseudo religious sales group from Socal is going to claim that the all mighty Elron has the secret answer to Covid, that is provided you follow the steps into their temple with your wallet and credit card in hand and distance yourself from your family and friends. Then become one with the true financial light shining only on the true believers in Dianetics.


L Ron Hubard couldn't have said it better. I wonder what his take on the virus is.


----------



## Electraglide

keto said:


> Hey, it's not at all what it puports to be so what's a few typos or some bad grammar?
> 
> per snopes: "The picture actually dates from 1958, during the Algerian War (i.e., a war for independence waged against French forces in Colonial Algeria). And it depicts a starving donkey that was rescued by a member of the French Foreign Legion who carried it back to his base, where the animal was nursed back to health, given the name “Bambi,” and adopted as a unit mascot."


Beats a Camel I guess.


----------



## tdotrob

Electraglide said:


> Beats a Camel I guess.


Mers?


----------



## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> Keep them borders wide open. We need more like him here



Oh I think we already had plenty with that mindset.

You would have had to turn off the immigration before either of our ancestors arrived here.


----------



## keto

Electraglide said:


> L Ron Hubard couldn't have said it better. I wonder what his take on the virus is.



I don't follow Scientology, does he speak from beyond the grave? 34 years dead.


----------



## Milkman

keto said:


> sorry for the stealth edit, but you nailed it



I'm surprised that you would take something like that post so literally.

Who give a fuck whether it's historically factual. It's what it symbolizes, the message? That sort of thing?


----------



## colchar

GuitarsCanada said:


> View attachment 303804



My god she looks like someone I went to high school with. I thought when I saw the first picture you posted, but the resemblance is even more striking in this pic.


----------



## colchar

laristotle said:


> _But when confronted by Global News about his marketing statements, Sennaike denied he did anything wrong.
> 
> “I’m not convincing people, it’s a preventative measure,” he said, after realizing he was now on camera.
> 
> “I’m really disappointed you’re doing this. This is against my human rights,” he said, as he walked out the hotel and into the parking lot._



Against his human rights 

Why is that always the fallback position for fuckwits?


----------



## allthumbs56

Eric Reesor said:


> No doubt a major "direct distributor" with a garage full of "product" they purchased to eventually peddle for distribution by other would be direct distributors. LOL
> 
> I just wonder when the other pyramid pseudo religious sales group from Socal is going to claim that the all mighty Elron has the secret answer to Covid, that is provided you follow the steps into their temple with your wallet and credit card in hand and distance yourself from your family and friends. Then become one with the true financial light shining only on the true believers in Dianetics.


They all can't be Ron Popiel or Dr. Ho


----------



## Electraglide

keto said:


> I don't follow Scientology, does he speak from beyond the grave? 34 years dead.


He speaks thru his disciples.


----------



## Eric Reesor

keto said:


> I don't follow Scientology, does he speak from beyond the grave? 34 years dead.


Tom Cruise would know I'm sure, as would a few other true believers with more money than brains. IGNORE THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN DOROTHY! with all the hocus pocus crap going on in the USA about this disease no wonder some of the bullshit is spreading north of the border. Next thing you know the guy peddling "inversion" teeter totters on TV will claim that it helps heal the lungs during colds and flu because you can clear your lungs just the way bats do.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

colchar said:


> My god she looks like someone I went to high school with. I thought when I saw the first picture you posted, but the resemblance is even more striking in this pic.


She grew up in London, Ont then went to Lambton college. That will narrow it down for you


----------



## colchar

GuitarsCanada said:


> She grew up in London, Ont then went to Lambton college. That will narrow it down for you



I knew they weren't the same person but my god, they look alike. And I mean right down to the hairstyle.


----------



## Electraglide

Eric Reesor said:


> Tom Cruise would know I'm sure, as would a few other true believers with more money than brains. IGNORE THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN DOROTHY! with all the hocus pocus crap going on in the USA about this disease no wonder some of the bullshit is spreading north of the border. Next thing you know the guy peddling "inversion" teeter totters on TV will claim that it helps heal the lungs during colds and flu because you can clear your lungs just the way bats do.


I dated a scientologist once. The date lasted until I said that the best L Ron wrote was under the name Winchester Remington Colt. No home run that night. Not too sure if the inversion thing helps "heal" your lungs but it can help clear them for a short time. Can be a bitch thou if your sinuses are running at the same time. You'll notice in the clip that they forgot to unhook Toto from the curtain when Oz pulls it back into place.


----------



## Adcandour

Just found out that one of my closest friend's brothers (also my good friend) has the VID 19. It's been 3 weeks and he's only talking about it now (me and about 8 others do the virtual hangout thing on Saturday nights and he hasn't mentioned it until 2 days ago).

All I can say is that it's pretty upsetting. He's absolutely fucked and alone. I didn't want to dig to deep re the info, but it sounds like a goddamn nightmare. He's a great guy - honestly one of the good ones - and it's pretty hard to say that about many people.

I'm not going to bother him with questions until next Saturday and we've got a couple of beer in us.

I hope people can get over their egos and start masking up. I offered my older sis an amazing P100 half mask, and she's too embarrassed to wear it. My twin (think danny devito) is wearing the one I gave her though. She's the good sister anyway.


----------



## 10409

@GuitarsCanada 

So today I was approved for 2k a month through the CERB to my personal account. My business was approved for a 40k loan at 0% interest for 2 years, only 75% or 30k needs to be paid back if within the agreed time frame otherwise it turns into a 5% loan.

Were you able to get your compensation started?


----------



## 10409

I should take this free loot and invest in oil.


----------



## Lincoln

my wife is big into quilting. She's going to make me some "designer" masks I can wear when I go to the store. Either cool fabric or she'll whip something up on her embroidery machine. 

I'll post em up if she gets a round tuit


----------



## mhammer

Off to pick up an order from Lee Valley Tools. The stores are closed but you an order online and get your order at the pickup window. No actual masks to wear, but I use a fresh J-Cloth, with the ends held together by an alligator-clip test lead.


----------



## Wardo

Soak the J-Cloth in whisky just to be safe.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

mike_oxbig said:


> @GuitarsCanada
> 
> So today I was approved for 2k a month through the CERB to my personal account. My business was approved for a 40k loan at 0% interest for 2 years, only 75% or 30k needs to be paid back if within the agreed time frame otherwise it turns into a 5% loan.
> 
> Were you able to get your compensation started?


Not yet. My birth month is December so I cant apply until Thursday at the earliest. In terms of the loan I am not sure what to do. We are so tied to the season's and vacation business I am not sure. Our lease expires in October of 2021 and we were already considering either selling or closing and move on to something else. Need to really think it over.


----------



## Lola

Milkman said:


> Agreed. I'm of the opinion that the monarchy should be discontinued at least in terms of the connection to Canada, but Queen E is a classy lady and I've always admired and respected her.
> 
> And I also caught and appreciated the Vera Lynn reference.


They need to get rid of the monarchy period. Look at the grief that was caused and still may be causing with Harry and his bride. The queen put the boots to them because she would not allow them to include the word “royal” in their line of retail goods after they announced they were leaving the monarchy. The queen and king have very antiquated ideas. They’re from another generation.


----------



## Lola

GuitarsCanada said:


> Not yet. My birth month is December so I cant apply until Thursday at the earliest. In terms of the loan I am not sure what to do. We are so tied to the season's and vacation business I am not sure. Our lease expires in October of 2021 and we were already considering either selling or closing and move on to something else. Need to really think it over.


That’s a-lot to think about. You have a ton of stuff on your plate. Best of luck to you. Your a very smart person!! You will figure it out. I wish I could offer you some advice, lighten your load but alas I can’t!


----------



## 10409

GuitarsCanada said:


> Not yet. My birth month is December so I cant apply until Thursday at the earliest. In terms of the loan I am not sure what to do. We are so tied to the season's and vacation business I am not sure. Our lease expires in October of 2021 and we were already considering either selling or closing and move on to something else. Need to really think it over.


For the business loan you just need to get your ducks in a row, it’s not ready for applications yet but they’ve listed the qualifications as anyone with a 2019 payroll expense of between 50k-1mill. Just sort out your statements and submit them in a few days


----------



## vadsy

mike_oxbig said:


> For the business loan you just need to get your ducks in a row, it’s not ready for applications yet but they’ve listed the qualifications as anyone with a 2019 payroll expense of between 50k-1mill. Just sort out your statements and submit them in a few days


Is this the sorta thing I could buy a boat with?


----------



## torndownunit

GuitarsCanada said:


> Not yet. My birth month is December so I cant apply until Thursday at the earliest. In terms of the loan I am not sure what to do. We are so tied to the season's and vacation business I am not sure. Our lease expires in October of 2021 and we were already considering either selling or closing and move on to something else. Need to really think it over.


I am in a crap position. My business income is definitely dropping off, but I am still collecting small invoices. There is no doubt it's going to be worse as time passes. It could conceivably drop down to only a few hundred dollars a month, then who knows. But I can't apply for CERB unless I've collected no income for 14 days. They definitely made an effort to cover small businesses, but they didn't account for the scenarios contract workers end up in.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

torndownunit said:


> I am in a crap position. My business income is definitely dropping off, but I am still collecting small invoices. There is no doubt it's going to be worse as time passes. It could conceivably drop down to only a few hundred dollars a month, then who knows. But I can't apply for CERB unless I've collected no income for 14 days. They definitely made an effort to cover small businesses, but they didn't account for the scenarios contract workers end up in.


Ya. It's still kind of mushy. We have been closed since March 17th. We have had zero income since. So ny only priority at this time is to pay our rent on our apartment and the Bill's related to living. The business will have to be sorted out later. Perhaps in court someday. At this point I am not even worrying about it.


----------



## Doug Gifford

vadsy said:


> Is this the sorta thing I could buy a boat with?


we'll throw in the plants for free


----------



## vadsy

Doug Gifford said:


> we'll throw in the plants for free


Fit for a felines funeral. 

Farewell Mittens... you were a terrible cat. Then we push him out to sea like the Vikings did in the 1800’s


----------



## mhammer

torndownunit said:


> I am in a crap position. My business income is definitely dropping off, but I am still collecting small invoices. There is no doubt it's going to be worse as time passes. It could conceivably drop down to only a few hundred dollars a month, then who knows. But I can't apply for CERB unless I've collected no income for 14 days. They definitely made an effort to cover small businesses, but they didn't account for the scenarios contract workers end up in.


I believe "they" are working on it. The challenge is figuring out who it would and wouldn't apply to (because they would be eligible for other benefits), how to document eligibility and extent, and how to go about compensating. That's no small hurdle to cross. "Gig" workers - especially the self-employed - are the trickiest category to grapple with.


----------



## Electraglide

If you need a laugh read some of the stuff on this 'merican site. 
Walmart Rolls Out Dramatic New Shopping Restrictions…Is This What Corporate Communism Looks Like? | Tea Party 247


----------



## Electraglide

mhammer said:


> I believe "they" are working on it. The challenge is figuring out who it would and wouldn't apply to (because they would be eligible for other benefits), how to document eligibility and extent, and how to go about compensating. That's no small hurdle to cross. "Gig" workers - especially the self-employed - are the trickiest category to grapple with.


From what I can find there is help for everyone except those who are on CPP/OAP and other low and no income types.


----------



## torndownunit

Electraglide said:


> From what I can find there is help for everyone except those who are on CPP/OAP and other low and no income types.


I can tell you that there isn't for workers in my category yet. @mhammer's post above has details. As of now, CERB is the option aimed at small businesses and self employed. But to qualify you have to have not collected income for 14 days, unless they changed that in the last few days. In my scenario, the work is trickling down to nothing, but I am still collecting small amounts of money from contracts that just wrapped up from months ago. That is likely going to make it's its way down to 'not enough money for rent and food' very soon.


----------



## knight_yyz

I could not stop laughing when I read this


----------



## 10409

vadsy said:


> Is this the sorta thing I could buy a boat with?


It could buy me a boat. It could buy me a truck to pull it.


----------



## keto

knight_yyz said:


> I could not stop laughing when I read this



Do wish people would stop linking from fb, any number of us have fb blockers and are unable to see teh funnays.


----------



## vadsy

mike_oxbig said:


> It could buy me a boat. It could buy me a truck to pull it.


I like where your heads at


----------



## vadsy

keto said:


> Do wish people would stop linking from fb, any number of us have fb blockers and are unable to see teh funnays.


and it’s the same thing that was posted this morning and discussed. and the same thing posted last week, week before. Etc. 

These are the same people who went and saw Maverick in the theatre three times thinking they were watching a brand new movie just one weekend apart


----------



## torndownunit

vadsy said:


> and it’s the same thing that was posted this morning and discussed. and the same thing posted last week, week before. Etc.
> 
> These are the same people who went and saw Maverick in the theatre three times thinking they were watching a brand new movie just one weekend apart


This motivated me to go watch Maverick.


----------



## Electraglide

knight_yyz said:


> I could not stop laughing when I read this


It's a fake. Foreign Legion from 1958, no minefield. He just pissed off one of the other guys and had his ass handed to him.


----------



## vadsy

torndownunit said:


> This motivated me to go watch Maverick.


It’s a good show. I’ve seen it a few times with my gran gran. She loves Julia Roberts.


----------



## Lola

Electraglide said:


> If you need a laugh read some of the stuff on this 'merican site.
> Walmart Rolls Out Dramatic New Shopping Restrictions…Is This What Corporate Communism Looks Like? | Tea Party 247


Went to Walmart at 8 am. I already had the “Walmart experience”. It wasn’t really that bad at all. Just trying to stay 6 ft apart was difficult. I care, some of the other customers obviously didn’t.


----------



## Wardo

vadsy said:


> Fit for a felines funeral.
> 
> Farewell Mittens... you were a terrible cat. Then we push him out to sea like the Vikings did in the 1800’s


Don’t forget to light him on fire first.


----------



## laristotle

flaming arrow


----------



## Wardo

And a can of gas.


----------



## Milkman

Sorry, duplicate post.


----------



## Milkman

U.K. PM Boris Johnson moved to intensive care as COVID-19 symptoms worsen | CBC News


----------



## Electraglide

Lola said:


> Went to Walmart at 8 am. I already had the “Walmart experience”. It wasn’t really that bad at all. Just trying to stay 6 ft apart was difficult. I care, some of the other customers obviously didn’t.


The Tea Party247 is a bit different.


----------



## torndownunit

Lola said:


> Went to Walmart at 8 am. I already had the “Walmart experience”. It wasn’t really that bad at all. Just trying to stay 6 ft apart was difficult. I care, some of the other customers obviously didn’t.


My 77 year old dad was told to fuck off at Walmart this morning when he asked a person to use the distance markers in the checkout who was too close to him. If I had been there that guy would have been collecting his teeth off the ground. I told my dad, it's a good idea to avoid Walmart. The one in my town is gross under the best of circumstances.


----------



## laristotle

Electraglide said:


> The Tea Party247 is a bit different.


----------



## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> U.K. PM Boris Johnson moved to intensive care as COVID-19 symptoms worsen | CBC News


Did a quick read on Johnson. Seems the boy got around a bit.


----------



## boyscout




----------



## Lola

torndownunit said:


> My 77 year old dad was told to fuck off at Walmart this morning when he asked a person to use the distance markers in the checkout who was too close to him. If I had been there that guy would have been collecting his teeth off the ground. I told my dad, it's a good idea to avoid Walmart. The one in my town is gross under the best of circumstances.


You should of phoned the acting manager and told him of the circumstances. That’s just horrible, disrespectful and terrible customer service. I really hate Walmart but for now it’s a necessary evil.


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


>


This is one of their milder things and if you check the coin out, worthless. Here's a link. Tea Party 247


----------



## Lola




----------



## torndownunit

Lola said:


> You should of phoned the acting manager and told him of the circumstances. That’s just horrible, disrespectful and terrible customer service. I really hate Walmart but for now it’s a necessary evil.


My dad complained to their customer service. It's Walmart, they didn't care. And really, what can staff do after the fact? They also changed the morning senior hour to 'seniors, disabled/ill'. They have no way to verify who falls into that though, and basically just let everyone in.


----------



## cdntac

Lola said:


> You should of phoned the acting manager and told him of the circumstances. That’s just horrible, disrespectful and terrible customer service. I really hate Walmart but for now it’s a necessary evil.


And have the mgr do what?


----------



## Jim DaddyO

cdntac said:


> And have the mgr do what?


----------



## vadsy

Lola said:


> You should of phoned the acting manager and told him of the circumstances. That’s just horrible, disrespectful and terrible customer service. I really hate Walmart but for now it’s a necessary evil.


easy, Karen. speaking to the manager ain’t gonna help when youse at Walmart


----------



## laristotle

Electraglide said:


> Here's a link. Tea Party 247


lol

Exposed: Origin Of Wuhan Virus Goes Right Back To….George Soros


----------



## davetcan

Milkman said:


> And people wonder why the sales profession has such a stigma. What a maroon.


I lost interest when I hit the word "Amway".


----------



## Milkman

davetcan said:


> I lost interest when I hit the word "Amway".


Yeah it’s a well known pyramid scheme, but it's the individual sales tactic that seems shady in this case.


----------



## cdntac

Jim DaddyO said:


>


I’ve seen that vid. The guy definitely got what he deserved. 

But in regards to the post made regarding his 77-year old father getting sworn at by another customer — I just don’t see how that’s poor customer service from wal-Mart or what a mgr is going to do about it. 

I expect some of us will come across similar scenes. We should all speak up to the idiot.


----------



## davetcan

GuitarsCanada said:


> She grew up in London, Ont then went to Lambton college. That will narrow it down for you


What high school?


----------



## tdotrob

davetcan said:


> I lost interest when I hit the word "Amway".


Ya, must be slim news pickings these days.

This just in! We went undercover! Amway is a scam! Gasp! Somebody notify Pullitzer!


----------



## allthumbs56

torndownunit said:


> This motivated me to go watch Maverick.


What? Maverick's out?


----------



## Guitar101

torndownunit said:


> I am in a crap position. My business income is definitely dropping off, but I am still collecting small invoices. There is no doubt it's going to be worse as time passes. It could conceivably drop down to only a few hundred dollars a month, then who knows. But I can't apply for CERB unless I've collected no income for 14 days. They definitely made an effort to cover small businesses, but they didn't account for the scenarios contract workers end up in.


From what I heard this morning, there are different periods you can claim for up until November. If you can't meet the requirements for the first one, possibly you can make the next one and so on. Good luck, I hope everything works out for you.


----------



## keto

allthumbs56 said:


> What? Maverick's out?


1994 baby! Maverick (1994) - IMDb


----------



## knight_yyz

Electraglide said:


> It's a fake. Foreign Legion from 1958, no minefield. He just pissed off one of the other guys and had his ass handed to him.


We're both wrong. They brought the sick donkey to base camp and nursed it back to health. But I don't give a crap, it's still funny


----------



## Electraglide

Lola said:


>


I don't know anyone in the last probably 25 years who had a standard put'em in a fancy box and dig a hole kind of send off. Cremation seems to be the way to go with a lot of people keeping the ashes in a fancy but smaller box at home. Depending what you want, not cheap either. Amber cost me just about $5,000....my ex has the box some where. I have some ashes in a metal shot flask. My second ex's family had to get special permission to have my ex brother in law and ex mother in law's ashes put into my ex father in law's head stone. And you can't, at least in Canada, just dump the ashes where you want. Legally. That's where the oops and "Who's job was it to put the lid on tight" factor come in. If you want a keep sake there is this. About $1000 or so.
Home | Classic Cremations | Creator of The Guitar Urn | Creator of the Guitar Urn


----------



## 10409

Lola said:


> You should of phoned the acting manager and told him of the circumstances. That’s just horrible, disrespectful and terrible customer service. I really hate Walmart but for now it’s a necessary evil.


I don’t think informing a 20 year old manager who got his job by not finding gainful employment for so long after high school that Walmart promoted him will do much good, but carry on Karen on.


----------



## Electraglide

davetcan said:


> I lost interest when I hit the word "Amway".


A friend of mine's dad was an Amway/Watkins salesman in the '50s and '60s.....kept the family fed and from what I understand had a few agreeable farm wives on his route. If those routes were still going they'd be shut down by now.


----------



## 10409

My parents sold amway when I was a kid. All I remember about it was shitty off brand protein bars and my parents not having as many friends anymore


----------



## Electraglide

keto said:


> 1994 baby! Maverick (1994) - IMDb


That was a funny movie. The TV series was even better.


----------



## GuitarsCanada

tdotrob said:


> Ya, must be slim news pickings these days.
> 
> This just in! We went undercover! Amway is a scam! Gasp! Somebody notify Pullitzer!


In this case it was a $2300 air cleaner which he was telling people would clean the air of Covid-19


----------



## Electraglide

knight_yyz said:


> We're both wrong. They brought the sick donkey to base camp and nursed it back to health. But I don't give a crap, it's still funny


Another Bambi.


----------



## 10409

GuitarsCanada said:


> In this case it was a $2300 air cleaner which he was telling people would clean the air of Covid-19


What bullshit

Handful of sage and a lighter on the full moon is all you need


----------



## allthumbs56

knight_yyz said:


> We're both wrong. They brought the sick donkey to base camp and nursed it back to health. But I don't give a crap, it's still funny


Nowadays everyone can have an emotional support donkey


----------



## laristotle

Coronavirus: Why Canada dairy farmers are dumping milk
_
Dairy Farmers of Ontario has told farmers to get rid of raw milk to keep prices stable and prevent oversupply.

The industry group says demand has crashed as restaurants and other bulk buyers shutter due to Covid-19.

Some 500 farms have been asked to dump 5 million litres a week, according to a trade report.

Dairy Farmers of Ontario is hoping that by spilling fresh milk, the supply will balance out and prices will remain stable. The group has not confirmed how much milk they are asking farmers to dump, but says it will be done on a "select and rotating" basis._


----------



## boyscout

laristotle said:


> Coronavirus: Why Canada dairy farmers are dumping milk
> _
> Dairy Farmers of Ontario has told farmers to get rid of raw milk to keep prices stable and prevent oversupply.
> 
> The industry group says demand has crashed as restaurants and other bulk buyers shutter due to Covid-19.
> 
> Some 500 farms have been asked to dump 5 million litres a week, according to a trade report.
> 
> Dairy Farmers of Ontario is hoping that by spilling fresh milk, the supply will balance out and prices will remain stable. The group has not confirmed how much milk they are asking farmers to dump, but says it will be done on a "select and rotating" basis._


Interesting. In our very large Zehrs store a few days ago - Zehrs being part of of the massive grocery giant Weston with more buying clout than any other - a sign was posted on the milk coolers restricting purchases to two 4-liter bags per customer "due to supply issues". I didn't notice if the price was changed - I'll be sure to look for that.

I already had enough contempt for the dairy "marketing" boards and their negative impacts on our prices and choices in dairy. Sounds like I'm gonna have reason for more. Maybe other Canadians will wake up to what they do to us.


----------



## davetcan

Heaven forbid that oversupply reduced the price for the consumer. Much better to throw away perfectly good food.


----------



## Lola

cdntac said:


> And have the mgr do what?


My husband had issues at Walmart with a smart ass employee last year. He got the managers name and went directly to the manager gave a description of the employee and told him of the situation. The manager acted promptly and told my husband that he had issues with this employee before. He was fired. Problem solved. You don’t tell someone with a cane and two casts on his legs to get his own cart! What the hell happened to “customer service?”It pays to speak up for yourself. I for one will never back down from a situation where I or my husband has been wronged. You bite me and I will bite back twice as hard. You could say I am feisty with a capital “F”. I will not take anyone’s shit!!


----------



## cdntac

Lola said:


> My husband had issues at Walmart with a smart ass employee last year. He got the managers name and went directly to the manager gave a description of the employee and told him of the situation. The manager acted promptly and told my husband that he had issues with this employee before. He was fired. Problem solved. You don’t tell someone with a cane and two casts on his legs to get his own cart! What the hell happened to “customer service?”It pays to speak up for yourself. I for one will never back down from a situation where I or my husband has been wronged. You bite me and I will bite back twice as hard. You could say I am feisty with a capital “F”. I will not take anyone’s shit!!


Uh...ok....I’m glad you were able to get that off your chest. 

Meanwhile, I’m still unsure how the idiot customer who swore at the poster’s elderly father equates to poor customer service from Wal-Mart.


----------



## keto

Lola said:


> My husband had issues at Walmart with a smart ass employee last year. He got the managers name and went directly to the manager gave a description of the employee and told him of the situation. The manager acted promptly and told my husband that he had issues with this employee before. He was fired. Problem solved. You don’t tell someone with a cane and two casts on his legs to get his own cart! What the hell happened to “customer service?”It pays to speak up for yourself. I for one will never back down from a situation where I or my husband has been wronged. You bite me and I will bite back twice as hard. You could say I am feisty with a capital “F”. I will not take anyone’s shit!!


Nope, you’ll put them on IGNORE omg the pain. Or get a low income worker fired, must be so satisfying to engage in these power trips with life changing consequences for perceived sleights. Here’s an idea, head to work while ill during a pandemic. Oh, did that?


----------



## Wardo

cdntac said:


> .. I’m still unsure how the idiot customer who swore at the poster’s elderly father equates to poor customer service from Wal-Mart.


The muggles have enough trouble getting by without having to cope with difficult questions like that.


----------



## keto

Lola said:


> I have come down with some really mild flu symptoms. Some serious body aches, mild fever and diarrhea. I don’t have a cough though.
> 
> I came home from work yesterday and felt like shit. I went to bed at 5:30 pm yesterday and slept until 7:30 this morning. I just don’t feel well. I just don’t want ppl freaking out at work.
> 
> I don’t know if I should stay home or go to work.





Lola said:


> I like a stupid human being went to work. My boss would of lost her mind if I phoned in sick because we are moving our company and our whole computer system is changing. I should of stayed at home. Soon as I walked through the door at work, my boss says, “you’re 5 minutes late”. I explained to her I didn’t feel well. She just dismissed my complaints. Not much longer until Freedom 55 kicks in, 9 months and counting.
> 
> My boss is really stupid and I mean no brains. Boss bashing, yes I am.
> 
> I told her outright that if I start to feel worse I am leaving. She was NOT happy. Don’t care. If everyone gets what I have it will cause this operation to shut down and then where will be? It’s all about the money, capitalism at it’s best.


just in case.


----------



## tdotrob

GuitarsCanada said:


> In this case it was a $2300 air cleaner which he was telling people would clean the air of Covid-19


I get that, just seems like a lot of effort and resource expose another scamway claim, in my humble opinion


----------



## Wardo

Lola said:


> They need to get rid of the monarchy period. Look at the grief that was caused and still may be causing with Harry and his bride. The queen put the boots to them because she would not allow them to include the word “royal” in their line of retail goods after they announced they were leaving the monarchy. The queen and king have very antiquated ideas. They’re from another generation.


Home schooled much ?

There is no King and Queen, just the Queen.

Elizabeth certainly is from another generation; during the war she was a truck mechanic and a truck driver in the army. She continued to live in London during the blitz (that's the bombing part) because she wasn't going to run and hide while the people of London got bombed back to the stone age. She is about 96 years old and can look back on an unblemished life of service.

I'm from the US and even I know that.


----------



## vadsy

keto said:


> just in case.


imagine if everyone who has been the subject of a Lola post had a chance to respond here. bigger ratings than the Bachelor finale


----------



## 10409




----------



## Electraglide

Lola said:


> They need to get rid of the monarchy period. Look at the grief that was caused and still may be causing with Harry and his bride. The queen put the boots to them because she would not allow them to include the word “royal” in their line of retail goods after they announced they were leaving the monarchy. The queen and king have very antiquated ideas. They’re from another generation.


What grief? From what I understand they left on their own accord. As far as putting "Royal" in their line of retail goods, they have to have permission.....same as if you wanted to say put Mickey Mouse in the name of a line of jewelry you made. There are laws they have to follow. Charles, when he becomes king will have to follow the same rules.


----------



## Lola

cdntac said:


> Uh...ok....I’m glad you were able to get that off your chest.
> 
> Meanwhile, I’m still unsure how the idiot customer who swore at the poster’s elderly father equates to poor customer service from Wal-Mart.


What would you call it, besides disrespectful? That’s disgusting customer service.!


----------



## Lola

cdntac said:


> Uh...ok....I’m glad you were able to get that off your chest.
> 
> Meanwhile, I’m still unsure how the idiot customer who swore at the poster’s elderly father equates to poor customer service from Wal-Mart.


No, it’s not a question of getting this off my chest, it’s the difference between *right *and *wrong. 

*


----------



## Dorian2

Well this is a weird turn of thread events.


----------



## keto

Lola said:


> Pota-toe, po-tat-oe
> 
> part of the “old boys club” are ya? You fit the mold perfectly.
> 
> Freedom of speech comes to mind.


Freedom of speech. Not the same as creating your own reality.


----------



## Mooh

John Prine, how is he now?

Marianne Faithfull?

Geez!


----------



## cdntac

Lola said:


> What would you call it, besides disrespectful? That’s disgusting customer service.!


We obviously have different definitions of customer service. 

For me, if I were standing in line to pay (like the poster’s father was) and the customer behind me swore at me I wouldn’t call that disgusting customer service. 

I dunno, maybe it’s just me, but the customer behind me in the checkout line isn’t providing a service nor am I a customer of his. 

But I guess everyone’s expectations of customer service is different.


----------



## Wardo

Mooh said:


> John Prine, how is he now?
> 
> Marianne Faithfull?
> 
> Geez!


Haven’t heard any more about Prine other than he was recovering but Marianne now too ?


----------



## Electraglide

Lola said:


> What would you call it, besides disrespectful? That’s disgusting customer service.!


Service by a customer, maybe but not a lot anyone working there can do except ask him to leave.....if the find out about it at the time it happened. It was after all a customer showing disrespect to another customer.
And I don't think Wardo is old enough to be part of the 'Old Boys Club". I am thou and to a certain extent a Monarchist too.....saying there is a King of England when there isn't one is not "Pota-toe, po-tat-oe" Down right disrespectful actually. I know that Wardo's been kicking around a bit but I don't think he's moldy even tho he is a Yankee.
Anyway I guess Prince Charles is out of isolation, not too sure about his wife tho. 
According to government guidelines, anyone with symptoms should self-isolate for seven days, while everyone living in their household should self-isolate for two weeks.
Not too sure how their PM is doing or his pregnant girlfriend are doing either.


----------



## Morkolo

Lola said:


> My husband had issues at Walmart with a smart ass employee last year. He got the managers name and went directly to the manager gave a description of the employee and told him of the situation. The manager acted promptly and told my husband that he had issues with this employee before. He was fired. Problem solved. You don’t tell someone with a cane and two casts on his legs to get his own cart! What the hell happened to “customer service?”It pays to speak up for yourself. I for one will never back down from a situation where I or my husband has been wronged. You bite me and I will bite back twice as hard. You could say I am feisty with a capital “F”. I will not take anyone’s shit!!


When I blew out my knee I was treated like gold by the majority of people just because I was on crutches. The few that had an attitude I chalked up to having a bad day, no reason to get someone fired. I'm not perfect so I don't expect anyone else to be.


----------



## Electraglide

Wardo said:


> Haven’t heard any more about Prine other than he was recovering but Marianne now too ?


Last I heard John was still in ICU and Marianne was stable.


----------



## Wardo

Electraglide said:


> Last I heard John was still in ICU and Marianne was stable.


yeah, stable could be just waiting


----------



## Boogieman

Wardo said:


> Haven’t heard any more about Prine other than he was recovering but Marianne now too ?


Yes.

Marianne Faithfull in hospital with coronavirus and 'stable'


----------



## Electraglide

Wardo said:


> yeah, stable could be just waiting


A lot of people are stable and get better.


----------



## tdotrob

Telling people to f*ck off in Walmart is as North American as apple pie and driveway hockey.

The Rona got everyone losing it.


----------



## 10409

Nonsensical interlude










As you were gentlemen


----------



## tdotrob




----------



## tomee2

Is it over yet? All the shitty bickering I mean.


----------



## keto

tomee2 said:


> Is it over yet? All the shitty bickering I mean.


----------



## Tone Chaser

Just heard on the news that the nursing home my father is in, has the virus. No details or specifics.

I tried calling my father, the nurses/staff on his wing, the top nurse, etc., for several hours earlier this evening. I couldn’t get anyone to answer a phone. I guess that I should have taken that as a clue.


----------



## Wardo

Tone Chaser said:


> Just heard on the news that the nursing home my father is in, has the virus. No details or specifics.
> 
> I tried calling my father, the nurses/staff on his wing, the top nurse, etc., for several hours earlier this evening. I couldn’t get anyone to answer a phone. I guess that I should have taken that as a clue.


Only thing I can think of to say is good luck and god be with you. But I know how it feels; when my wife was in the COPD ward at West Park Hospital sometimes I would get there after work and it would be locked up because there was a virus going round in the ward and they wanted to contain it. Had to get the mask, gloves and gown on to go in and I was afraid that whatever it was might take her out because she was pretty fragile by then. That was 9 years ago. So again, good luck and god be with you and your family.


----------



## jb welder

torndownunit said:


> My 77 year old dad was told to fuck off at Walmart this morning when he asked a person to use the distance markers in the checkout who was too close to him.


Stand in front of your cart and don't be afraid to use it.



Tone Chaser said:


> Just heard on the news that the nursing home my father is in, has the virus. No details or specifics.


I hope he does ok. I don't know if many of them will be able to keep it out. Not unless they get to a point where they can test everyone.


----------



## Eric Reesor

The US after four more years of health care cuts described here since the last election.


----------



## torndownunit

tdotrob said:


> Telling people to f*ck off in Walmart is as North American as apple pie and driveway hockey.
> 
> The Rona got everyone losing it.


Our Walmart here is a shit hole. When my dad told me the story a out being told to f-off by the customer there, I told him 'the best thing yiu can do is just not go there'. I avoid the place whenever possible when there is no pandemic going on and wouldn't go near it right now. It's also the only store in town that I know of that isn't limiting the amount of people in the store at once. Every other store I have seen is taking those measures.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## cdntac

Tone Chaser said:


> Just heard on the news that the nursing home my father is in, has the virus. No details or specifics.
> 
> I tried calling my father, the nurses/staff on his wing, the top nurse, etc., for several hours earlier this evening. I couldn’t get anyone to answer a phone. I guess that I should have taken that as a clue.


My parents live in a senior’s apartment building and my fear is that someone in there will eventually get it and it’ll spread easily. 

It’s disheartening seeing the number of nursing homes that are having outbreaks.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## laristotle




----------



## laristotle




----------



## Guitar101

Eric Reesor said:


> The US after four more years of health care cuts described here since the last election.


Not sure why but I played the clip and I have to admit I thought it was pretty funny. When my son was a teenager many years ago, I took him to the store to buy his birthday present. He wanted this video for his birthday. I remember thinking what a waste of money by hey, it was his birthday so we got it. Him and his brother watched it a few times that day laughing all the way through the movie. I tried to watch but just couldn't see the humour in it. Fast forward to today and clips from that movie are posted all the time. I guess it was just me.


----------



## Milkman

This thread seems to bring out the worst in some people. I think it can be helpful to many of us so I hope people will ramp down the personal attacks and vitriol.

We can hang together or we can hang separately.

I hope you're all well this morning.

Just an observation, but if and when we get past this, we make look back at this as the nursing home epidemic. So many deaths are occurring in these places. It's like dropping a bomb on the building.

And the bitterest pill is that they have to die without the comfort of their loved ones at their sides.


----------



## Guitar101

laristotle said:


> View attachment 303892


Two things. The mask used by the woman looks like one that should be reserved for our medical community and because the horse is wearing that mask, there is probably a woman walking around the farm with her boobs hanging down to her belly button. They could have put a little more thought in their choice of masks.


----------



## Milkman

Tone Chaser said:


> Just heard on the news that the nursing home my father is in, has the virus. No details or specifics.
> 
> I tried calling my father, the nurses/staff on his wing, the top nurse, etc., for several hours earlier this evening. I couldn’t get anyone to answer a phone. I guess that I should have taken that as a clue.


Damn that's tough news. I'm sorry man. All you can do is hope for the best.


----------



## laristotle

Guitar101 said:


> They could have put a little more thought in their choice of masks.


Horse probably insisted.


----------



## Electraglide

Guitar101 said:


> Two things. The mask used by the woman looks like one that should be reserved for our medical community and because the horse is wearing that mask, there is probably a woman walking around the farm with her boobs hanging down to her belly button. They could have put a little more thought in their choice of masks.


Not too sure about the ladies mask but I think you're wrong about the horse's. I'd say they come nowhere near her belly button.


----------



## bolero

is the term "batshit crazy" applicable here?

I guess it brings the thread back to Corona Virus

that batshit really ties the room together


----------



## keto

keto said:


> View attachment 303854


Called it.


----------



## Doug Gifford

I have a summer job (at 64!!!) working on the docks, catching and tying/untying tour boats and collecting tickets. My trio was set to gig on the boats as well. Got word from my boss that they'd be closed by gov't order until July 1. 

Happy Canada Day, everybody.


----------



## Guitar101

Electraglide said:


> Not too sure about the ladies mask but I think you're wrong about the horse's. I'd say they come nowhere near her belly button.


You just can't help staring at a woman's bra, can you. Even if it's on a horse's face.

What did the bartender say to the horse standing at the bar? . . . . . . "Why the long face"


----------



## vadsy

what the heck happened to Guitars Canada Bingo?


----------



## keto

vadsy said:


> what the heck happened to Guitars Canada Bingo?


zomg someone musta won, game over


----------



## vadsy

dang, I thought I had a chance. Did Dave win? he wins everything


----------



## Electraglide

Guitar101 said:


> You just can't help staring at a woman's bra, can you. Even if it's on a horse's face.
> 
> What did the bartender say to the horse standing at the bar? . . . . . . "Why the long face"


You think I should look at the ladies face mask? The second thing I did was try to figure out what kind of horse that was and approximately how wide across the nose it was. I'd say 7 inches or so and then figure out the bra size. Probably a 36 C. Anyway I wasn't the one thinking that grandma was running around the farm with out her shirt on again.
Guy walks into the bar and says to the bartender, "I bet I can make that horse cry." The bartender laughs and says "Ok, $1000.". The guy walks over to the horse, says something and sure enough the horse starts crying. The bartender asks, "How'd you do that?" and the guy says, "Well first I told him I was hung better than he was and then I showed him.".


----------



## High/Deaf

keto said:


> zomg someone musta won, game over



Damn. It was prolly me. I had Ed McMahon knocking on my door the other day but I didn't answer it because cronavies, ya know.


----------



## boyscout

laristotle said:


> View attachment 303904


Except in Canada...


----------



## vadsy

High/Deaf said:


> Damn. It was prolly me. I had Ed McMahon knocking on my door the other day but I didn't answer it because cronavies, ya know.


you didn’t show. we had a spot for you and everything


----------



## High/Deaf

Good times in Edmunchuk, eh? Party on Garth!


----------



## vadsy

High/Deaf said:


> Good times in Edmunchuk, eh? Party on Garth!


No. It was online. you _missed it by that much 
_
Party on


----------



## High/Deaf

vadsy said:


> No. It was online. you _missed it by that much
> _
> Party on


Maybe you just weren't invited. _That_ would be hard to believe. LOL


----------



## Morkolo

Lola said:


> My rant I guess was deleted! Too bad
> 
> to all you old geeks with a bigoted mindset that is not only tainted in the fact your shit doesn’t stink and love to pick on me *Fuck all of you! *


----------



## vadsy

High/Deaf said:


> Maybe you just weren't invited. _That_ would be hard to believe. LOL


probably, but I promise that you’re in next time


----------



## High/Deaf

vadsy said:


> probably, but I promise that you’re in next time


Sorry. I only go to Edmonton for Tushfest (RIP Wayne). And there probably won't be one this year.


----------



## Lola

Morkolo said:


>


What are 5 years old here? Next your going to stick you tongue out at me. Grow up asshole!

That’s the best you can come with? Grow the fuck up. Go crawl back under your rock with the rest of the trolls. Or, better yet, why don’t you all gang up on me at once. You are a bunch of juveniles pretending to be adults.


----------



## Electraglide

Lola said:


> What are 5 years old here? Next your going to stick you tongue out at me. Grow up asshole!
> 
> This is best you can come with? Grow the fuck up. Go crawl back under your rock with the rest of the trolls. Or, better yet, why don’t you all gang up on me at once.


That train left a long time ago Lola.


----------



## Milkman

Hmmm, left the room logged into Guitars Canada and came back to Harmony Central?

Well done fellas.


----------



## cdntac

Lola said:


> My rant I guess was deleted! Too bad
> 
> to all you old geeks with a bigoted mindset that is not only tainted in the fact your shit doesn’t stink and love to pick on me *Fuck all of you! *



Wow. 

All I did was ask a question as to how the poster’s father getting sworn at by a fellow customer was Wal-Mart’s fault and you went off on an unrelated tirade. 

But fwiw, your early morning rant was kind of incomprehensible but this one is much more clearly understood. 

Nonetheless, I’ve come to the conclusion that everything is Wal-Mart’s fault.


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> This thread seems to bring out the worst in some people. I think it can be helpful to many of us so I hope people will ramp down the personal attacks and vitriol.


----------



## Wardo

Some ripe stuff and an awesome meltdown .. lmao


----------



## Lola

cdntac said:


> Wow.
> 
> All I did was ask a question as to how the poster’s father getting sworn at by a fellow customer was Wal-Mart’s fault and you went off on an unrelated tirade.
> 
> But fwiw, your early morning rant was kind of incomprehensible but this one is much more clearly understood.
> 
> Nonetheless, I’ve come to the conclusion that everything is Wal-Mart’s fault


just a general statement.


----------



## Milkman

Yeah pretty funny stuff.

Something’s ripe alright.


----------



## vadsy

Wardo said:


> Some ripe stuff and an awesome meltdown .. lmao


the best parts were already deleted once. I’m sure the second reboot is coming.


----------



## Lola




----------



## vadsy

seems reasonable


----------



## keto

I've had too much internet the past couple days.


----------



## colchar

Wardo said:


> Some ripe stuff and an awesome meltdown .. lmao



Damn, I missed the meltdown. I'll have to read through this political non-political thread once I finish some work I've been avoiding.


----------



## Milkman

colchar said:


> View attachment 303978


Yet another demonstration of your superiority.

I’m so grateful to you for pointing out how dumb I am.

LMAO


----------



## Wardo

vadsy said:


> . .. I’m sure the second reboot is coming.


Full blown psychiatric episode with restraints .. lol


----------



## Morkolo

Lola said:


> What are 5 years old here? Next your going to stick you tongue out at me. Grow up asshole!
> 
> That’s the best you can come with? Grow the fuck up. Go crawl back under your rock with the rest of the trolls. Or, better yet, why don’t you all gang up on me at once. You are a bunch of juveniles pretending to be adults.


----------



## keto

This from my daughter.

"Friend is a nurse who's been testing people for covid all day.

At the grocery store, guy gets too close, she asks him to keep safe distance. Reply is 'Whatever, bitch'. She replies, I'm a nurse and been testing for covid all day every day. It's for your safety, not mine." Dude backs away with that look of horror and disgust we know so well. People are s t u p i d."

Yes, dear daughter, they are.


----------



## Lola

Morkolo said:


>


Doesn’t take much to amuse small minds. Your a real piece of what I don’t know.

JBFairthorne who was the one that pm’d a few times after your marriage fell apart just to see if you were okay and if there was anything you needed help with. That was genuine outreach on my part and *this is how you treat me now? You’re no better then the rest of them. *


----------



## Lola

Wardo said:


> Full blown psychiatric episode with restraints .. lol


so what hospital are you in?


----------



## allthumbs56

I didn't realize that the virus was this effective. Social distancing has become full-on antisocial


----------



## cdntac

keto said:


> This from my daughter.
> 
> "Friend is a nurse who's been testing people for covid all day.
> 
> At the grocery store, guy gets too close, she asks him to keep safe distance. Reply is 'Whatever, bitch'. She replies, I'm a nurse and been testing for covid all day every day. It's for your safety, not mine." Dude backs away with that look of horror and disgust we know so well. People are s t u p i d."
> 
> Yes, dear daughter, they are.


That’s horrible customer service. Lol. 

But in all seriousness, that could be a good line to use. Unless of course someone freaks out and calls the police with the misguided thinking that someone working in a hospital should be going to work and straight home.


----------



## vadsy

cdntac said:


> That’s horrible customer service. Lol.
> 
> But in all seriousness, that could be a good line to use. Unless of course someone freaks out and calls the police with the misguided thinking that someone working in a hospital should be going to work and straight home.


in no way disagreeing.

crazy that we would expect healthcare workers to only go between home and work. but if it was to come to having to deal with some crazy person calling the police on you, just deny it. I could pull that skit off all day. maybe accuse them of wasting police time cuz they mad you took the last frozen pizza in front of them


----------



## GuitarsCanada

keto said:


> This from my daughter.
> 
> "Friend is a nurse who's been testing people for covid all day.
> 
> At the grocery store, guy gets too close, she asks him to keep safe distance. Reply is 'Whatever, bitch'. She replies, I'm a nurse and been testing for covid all day every day. It's for your safety, not mine." Dude backs away with that look of horror and disgust we know so well. People are s t u p i d."
> 
> Yes, dear daughter, they are.


In these times of madness it's better to avoid any public place if you possibly can. Tensions are mounting and it will get worse.


----------



## keto

GuitarsCanada said:


> In these times of madness it's better to avoid any public place if you possibly can. Tensions are mounting and it will get worse.


2 weeks tomorrow since I last left the house. I can't wait, I have to go to the bank and the post office for work when I am set free Fri or Mon, maybe Tue if they're all closed up for Easter. Gonna be stylin like I'm heading for Mars.


----------



## Milkman

GuitarsCanada said:


> In these times of madness it's better to avoid any public place if you possibly can. Tensions are mounting and it will get worse.


Absolutely right. Just take a look through this thread to see how presumably rational people can spiral down into childish insults, personal attacks and condescending rants.

I wouldn't expect better at Walmart.


----------



## davetcan

vadsy said:


> the best parts were already deleted once. I’m sure the second reboot is coming.


Nah, fuck it! I tried.


----------



## guitarman2

Milkman said:


> Absolutely right. Just take a look through this thread to see how presumably rational people can spiral down into childish insults, personal attacks and condescending rants.
> 
> I wouldn't expect better at Walmart.


So its been no worse since covid 19 started.


----------



## Milkman

guitarman2 said:


> So its been no worse since covid 19 started.



That's going to be a matter of opinion.


----------



## keto

jb welder said:


> While the comment earlier about the usual number of flu deaths per year is valid, this thing is just starting. So it could end up a hiccup, or a world-wide threat, we don't really know yet.
> Looking at the kind of lock-downs going on, and travel restrictions, I'm inclined to agree with Wardo that they may be minimizing it to stop people from panicking.
> 
> As serious as it is, this cracked me up. Real pic from Vancouver airport. DIY haz-something or other. Everyone around is cracking up too.


This (pic) just doesn't look that fubar to me right now.


----------



## laristotle

davetcan said:


> Nah, fuck it! I tried.


----------



## vadsy

guitarman2 said:


> So its been no worse since covid 19 started.


exactly. The folks involved were both due and being themselves


----------



## Lola

Delete


----------



## Lola

Wardo said:


> Full blown psychiatric episode with restraints .. lol


So you never replied. What hospital are you in?

couldn’t visit you anyhow.

Notice how you back right off when the tables are turned Wardo!

What, cat got your tongue?


----------



## torndownunit

keto said:


> 2 weeks tomorrow since I last left the house. I can't wait, I have to go to the bank and the post office for work when I am set free Fri or Mon, maybe Tue if they're all closed up for Easter. Gonna be stylin like I'm heading for Mars.


This morning was my morning for grouping several errands together. There was already a pretty solid line at the grocery store at 8 for opening. It's a short week too with places closing for good Friday, so I decided I'd be better to try the errands early week. I got lucky at the post office at least, there was no one in line. 5 people behind me when I left.

One good sign I saw was that there were way more people running errands alone rather than as couples or families. The stores here have been pleading for people to do that.


----------



## Dorian2

Here's some world news for people bickering at each other about a fucking line up and rude customers.

China lifts 10-week lockdown on Wuhan after no new deaths reported for first time in former epicentre

Coronavirus live news: Boris Johnson in intensive care as confirmed cases in Africa pass 10,000

Coronavirus India LIVE Updates: 14-month-old from Jamnagar could be India's youngest casualty - The Economic Times

South Africa: Set Rights-Centered COVID-19 Measures

Sao Paulo expects 100,000 COVID-19 deaths


----------



## Milkman

Dorian2 said:


> Here's some world news for people bickering at each other about a fucking line up and rude customers.
> 
> China lifts 10-week lockdown on Wuhan after no new deaths reported for first time in former epicentre
> 
> Coronavirus live news: Boris Johnson in intensive care as confirmed cases in Africa pass 10,000
> 
> Coronavirus India LIVE Updates: 14-month-old from Jamnagar could be India's youngest casualty - The Economic Times
> 
> South Africa: Set Rights-Centered COVID-19 Measures
> 
> Sao Paulo expects 100,000 COVID-19 deaths


Some grim stuff there.

This is a snip from the Sao Paolo link.



Brazil has been the Latin American country hit hardest by the new coronavirus, with 553 deaths and more than 12,000 confirmed cases so far.

Health experts warn under-testing means the real number is likely much higher.

Sao Paulo, a state whose population of 46 million makes it about the size as Spain, has seen more infections and deaths than any other.

The state is probably facing another 1,300 deaths this week, Covas said.

The governor has openly clashed over containment measures with far-right President Jair Bolsonaro, who claims they are needlessly wrecking the economy over a disease he has compared to a "little flu."


----------



## laristotle

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1064686363891976


----------



## Milkman

laristotle said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1064686363891976



Second best minute and a half I've spent today.

Thank you


----------



## Lincoln

Today on my shopping trip, I was able to purchase rice, toilet paper, and kleenex. The horders must be running out of money finally.


----------



## Milkman

Lincoln said:


> Today on my shopping trip, I was able to purchase rice, toilet paper, and kleenex. The horders must be running out of money finally.


There are some people who simply increased their safety stock level. I'll admit I initially grabbed one extra pack of TP and basically have maintained that since then. Now that the supply chain has caught up I could consume that one extra pack and return to normal, but now their are line ups and they're letting one in only when one exits, that sort of thing.

That means people will have to shop ahead which has an impact on stock levels.

Some of it was idiotic hoarding and some was just people being careful.


----------



## Dorian2

Lincoln said:


> Today on my shopping trip, I was able to purchase rice, toilet paper, and kleenex. The horders must be running out of money finally.


Don't worry. I have you covered if you need anything Dave.


----------



## tomee2

Costco at 730 last night was a 2 minute wait outside, single file, to get in. they had TP and flour, both I havent been able to buy since late Feb. I got enough of everything not to go back for a month if needed. 

Walmart has had bigger lines to go in so I avoid it. 
If you need milk or eggs Shoppers has that, or Macs milk, which now seems to be called CircleK which makes me laugh because it's the dumbest name to call a Macs..


----------



## tdotrob

Lincoln said:


> Today on my shopping trip, I was able to purchase rice, toilet paper, and kleenex. The horders must be running out of money finally.


I went to Safeway in the park Sunday night to pick up a few things that we weren’t able to get from my wife’s click and collect adventures.

Maybe 10 people in store, aisles are one way and everyone was respecting that and each others space. Got 1 pack of tp, they had quite a bit but still a two pack limit.

Was able to get everything we were needing without getting close to anyone and lots of stock available. I felt normal for 25 minutes.


----------



## torndownunit

Lincoln said:


> Today on my shopping trip, I was able to purchase rice, toilet paper, and kleenex. The horders must be running out of money finally.


I think the main difference is the limit on purchase quantities, and that the stores are enforcing them.


----------



## mturk

Milkman said:


> Second best minute and a half I've spent today.
> 
> Thank you


Your wife is a lucky lady!


----------



## Electraglide

keto said:


> 2 weeks tomorrow since I last left the house. I can't wait, I have to go to the bank and the post office for work when I am set free Fri or Mon, maybe Tue if they're all closed up for Easter. Gonna be stylin like I'm heading for Mars.


Not too sure about Edmonton but there doesn't seem to be a lot of banks open here, just ATMs.


----------



## cdntac

Electraglide said:


> Not too sure about Edmonton but there doesn't seem to be a lot of banks open here, just ATMs.


About a month ago I started wondering if banks may close (if needed to because of staff infection) so I took out a bit of $$ and made my MiL do that too. 

We live in a small town and if the bank closes there are only two bank machines in town. It wouldn’t take long for the $$ to be emptied (even if only for a day or two before being refilled). 

And if a glitch happens with debit/credit cards at a store — which does seem to happen every now and then — I figured having some cash around was a prudent move.


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## Milkman

mturk said:


> Your wife is a lucky lady!


Thought I was wasting good material there.


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## Dorian2

Electraglide said:


> Not too sure about Edmonton but there doesn't seem to be a lot of banks open here, just ATMs.


When I went to an RBC the other day in a local Mall a security guard was allowing 1 person in at a time to the tellers. Also had the aisle gates up to control traffic. Everyone was keeping their distance. As a whole Edmonton at least seems to be approaching this with appropriate caution without getting into people's faces about it.


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## Milkman

Dorian2 said:


> When I went to an RBC the other day in a local Mall a security guard was allowing 1 person in at a time to the tellers. Also had the aisle gates up to control traffic. Everyone was keeping their distance. As a whole Edmonton at least seems to be approaching this with appropriate caution without getting into people's faces about it.


I never visit my branch. I do most things by internet. Why are people physically visiting banks these days? That's not a shot across anyone's bow. I'm just curious why people have to actually go there.


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## mturk

Milkman said:


> Thought I was wasting good material there.


lol 

Yes i couldn’t let a set up like that go to waste!


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## tomee2

Milkman said:


> I never visit my branch. I do most things by internet. Why are people physically visiting banks these days? That's not a shot across anyone's bow. I'm just curious why people have to actually go there.


Set up banking for the teenage boys. We weren’t able to do that online. Sign mortgage papers. Probably can do that with email these days but we went in last year for that.. Online system wouldn’t let me open a Tfsa, even though it should, so I went in. That’s about it, in the last 5 years ..


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## Dorian2

Milkman said:


> I never visit my branch. I do most things by internet. Why are people physically visiting banks these days? That's not a shot across anyone's bow. I'm just curious why people have to actually go there.


In my case I had to get some groceries and some cash out to pay a buddy who picked some stuff up at Costco for us. Everyone's limiting exposure as much as possible in my circle.


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## Electraglide

cdntac said:


> About a month ago I started wondering if banks may close (if needed to because of staff infection) so I took out a bit of $$ and made my MiL do that too.
> 
> We live in a small town and if the bank closes there are only two bank machines in town. It wouldn’t take long for the $$ to be emptied (even if only for a day or two before being refilled).
> 
> And if a glitch happens with debit/credit cards at a store — which does seem to happen every now and then — I figured having some cash around was a prudent move.


I always carry cash and most places that are open still accept it. Cost too much to use a non bank atm and it gets expensive if I go over my atm use limit.


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## cdntac

Electraglide said:


> I always carry cash and most places that are open still accept it. Cost too much to use a non bank atm and it gets expensive if I go over my atm use limit.


Lately I’ve seen many signs here advising debit/credit only.


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## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> I never visit my branch. I do most things by internet. Why are people physically visiting banks these days? That's not a shot across anyone's bow. I'm just curious why people have to actually go there.


To get cash. I do very little by the internet.


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## Distortion

cdntac said:


> Lately I’ve seen many signs here advising debit/credit only.


Beer store in town says cash only.


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## vadsy

I deal with 3 different banks, all open. I do stuff online but not everything can be done that way. I still see people pay bills at the bank, all old, and it costs them an extra fee. I still see folks deal in nothing but cash, I hate being paid in cash these days especially large amounts. Some dude wanted to take everything out last week and demanded 400K on the spot, they calmed him down. I think most places still take cash but prefer not to, I'd rather just do tap and not have touch anything.


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## vadsy

tdotrob said:


> I went to Safeway in the park Sunday night to pick up a few things that we weren’t able to get from my wife’s click and collect adventures.
> 
> Maybe 10 people in store, aisles are one way and everyone was respecting that and each others space. Got 1 pack of tp, they had quite a bit but still a two pack limit.
> 
> Was able to get everything we were needing without getting close to anyone and lots of stock available. I felt normal for 25 minutes.


Sunday night, I was there too. Arrows on the floor are great, feels like a life-sized treasure hunt map.


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## Milkman

The only thing that I ever need cash for is the weed store I use. They only accept cash. Other than that everything is set up on my phone and anything else is debit, emt, whatever.

The only time I handle cash (and this is obviously not happening presently) is on business travel. I like to have local currency or USD anytime I leave Canada. Even then, I end up using almost none of it unless I need cabs in Mexico or something like that.


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## Electraglide

cdntac said:


> Lately I’ve seen many signs here advising debit/credit only.


Not here or at least the places I shop....some would prefer plastic but I prefer not to use it. Same with self serve cashiers. Because I take public transit I am limited as far as what I can carry goes and also am limited in storage space especially for fresh goods, meat, milk, veggies etc. so I usually go shopping at least twice or three times a week. Those transactions mount up in a month if I don't use cash....I pay for any over 10 a month.


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## Electraglide

Distortion said:


> Beer store in town says cash only.


I saw something the other day saying there was a bigger chance of catching something using debit/credit card in machines than handing a cashier cash. Almost all the ones around here are wearing gloves and masks and are behind clear shields. Are beer and pot stores still on the essential list in Ont.? Not too sure if they are or not here.


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## vadsy

beer essential, I believe they closed weed.

how do you catch something when you don't touch anything using debit/credit? tap literally lets you hover the card over the machine, I don't even pull mine from my phone case vs literally rubbing bills in your hand that have been EVERYWHERE


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## Sneaky

vadsy said:


> Sunday night, I was there too. Arrows on the floor are great, feels like a life-sized treasure hunt map.


It’s no longer like a game of Pac Man, where you have to reverse course if someone starts coming towards you.


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## tdotrob

vadsy said:


> Sunday night, I was there too. Arrows on the floor are great, feels like a life-sized treasure hunt map.


I pretend the arrows are boosts like Mario Kart. 

I thought I saw Kanye but didn’t want to get all fanboyish and ask for an autograph....


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## Morkolo

cdntac said:


> Lately I’ve seen many signs here advising debit/credit only.


Same here, I gassed up yesterday and had to put it on my card. I don't think any businesses are taking cash here now until this is over.


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## keto

tdotrob said:


> I pretend the arrows are boosts like Mario Kart.
> 
> I thought I saw Kanye but didn’t want to get all fanboyish and ask for an autograph....


Man, you really get this place, don't you?


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## Doug Gifford

It was warmish (17?) so I hauled the piano and a powered speaker out onto the back deck to practise. It was very nice to get out of the house and just hang. My neighbour to the west brought me over a beer (which I poured before drinking and washed my hands) and my neighbour to the south brought me over a joint (which I'll let age a bit before putting in my mouth). Had a nice time and got some sunshine and the kids raked the lawn. Played with the birds and the birds sang with me. It was nice and I'll do it again, weather allowing.


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## 10409

Lola said:


> What are 5 years old here? Next your going to stick you tongue out at me. Grow up asshole!
> 
> That’s the best you can come with? Grow the fuck up. Go crawl back under your rock with the rest of the trolls. Or, better yet, why don’t you all gang up on me at once. You are a bunch of juveniles pretending to be adults.


That is unacceptable language for someone to use towards a paying customer of Guitars Canada. Let me speak to your manager.


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## Doug Gifford

And now John Prine. How soon will it become "Oh, another…"?


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## Doug Gifford

tdotrob said:


> I pretend the arrows are boosts like Mario Kart.
> 
> I thought I saw Kanye but didn’t want to get all fanboyish and ask for an autograph....


Do you put something heavy at the front of the cart then soap-box it down the aisle? Perhaps shouting "Bob Loblaw, Bob Loblaw, Bob Loblaw…" as you carom off the scouring pads?


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## jb welder

What's the big deal with cash? All our money is completely washable. Yes, it's a wee bit of a hassle, but you should already be washing your hands all the time anyway. Give the bills a wipe too. No biggie.


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## vadsy

jb welder said:


> What's the big deal with cash? All our money is completely washable. Yes, it's a wee bit of a hassle, but you should already be washing your hands all the time anyway. Give the bills a wipe too. No biggie.


funny enough, before giving the kids their allowance I washed it in a soapy sink. they asked why we had twenties drying on a rack


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## Dorian2

vadsy said:


> funny enough, before giving the kids their allowance I washed it in a soapy sink. they asked why we had twenties drying on a rack


Should've used a clothesline.


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## vadsy

gonna get robbed


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## Electraglide

jb welder said:


> What's the big deal with cash? All our money is completely washable. Yes, it's a wee bit of a hassle, but you should already be washing your hands all the time anyway. Give the bills a wipe too. No biggie.


I wonder how often they wash those card readers at the cashiers.


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## vadsy

Electraglide said:


> I wonder how often they wash those card readers at the cashiers.


again. Tap is no touch, at all. Was at the store today and watched them wipe everything down, including the card readers, after every customer.


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## vadsy




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## player99

Stay away from Walmart. Never go there.

Always get a full size shopping cart to use as a blocker device.

When people get close, yell "GIVE ME MY 6 FEET" and make a scene if necessary.

Get some cans of beans so you can beat someone with them if they get too close.


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## Dorian2

If you eat the beans, they can also act as a rear defensive system!


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## vadsy

Wardo said:


> Elizabeth certainly is from another generation; during the war she was a truck mechanic and a truck driver in the army. She continued to live in London during the blitz (that's the bombing part) because she wasn't going to run and hide while the people of London got bombed back to the stone age. She is about 96 years old and can look back on an unblemished life of service.


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## Lola

Click to expand...
Doesn’t take much to amuse small minds. Your a real piece of what I don’t know.

JBFairthorne who was the one that pm’d a few times after your marriage fell apart just to see if you were okay and if there was anything you needed help with? That was genuine outreach on my part and *this is how you treat me now? You’re no better then the rest of them!!!!!

Herd mentality!! At it’s best. Can’t you think by yourself? 

great example of herd mentality. 
*


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## Wardo

Lola said:


> What, cat got your tongue?


You do not matter to me so I don’t need to engage in a dialogue with you. The stuff you are posting in this thread suggests that you have mental health issues and that you are slightly obscene. You are not scoring any big points off anyone with your continued rants; the only thing that you are doing is making yourself look worse.


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## Lola

Wardo said:


> You do not matter to me so I don’t need to engage in a dialogue with you. The stuff you are posting in this thread suggests that you have mental health issues and that you are a slightly obscene. You are not scoring any big points off anyone with your continued rants; the only thing that you are doing is making yourself look worse.


So why didn’t you reply? Because you didn’t like it! Because you had no reply and if you did it would of been some berating comment anyone.

My rants are called self preservation. Making my self look worse? Blow it out your ass! If you don’t like it too bad. Don’t care!

Cowboy mentality comes to mind .

and... frankly I don’t give a damn about you.

your just a stupid ******* that loves to hear himself berate others. Does it make you feel superior?

better to have mental health issues then ending up like you!

your worthless talking to. Your just a yee haw red neck that has nothing of intelligence to say. Now go put that ******* hat on and go “play” with your farm animals. I am sure they’ll appreciate the extra caring love.

And.....When you’re sick of everybody’s shit in the trailer park just go full retard.


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## laristotle




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## Chito

Going back on topic. This is good news regardless of the source. So 10-12 weeks seem to be the timeline. Which means we still have a ways to go. But there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Wuhan, China’s coronavirus epicentre, ends 76-day lockdown


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## cdntac

Lola said:


> So why didn’t you reply? Because you didn’t like it! Because you had no reply and if you did it would of been some berating comment anyone.
> 
> My rants are called self preservation. Making my self look worse? Blow it out your ass! If you don’t like it too bad. Don’t care!
> 
> Cowboy mentality comes to mind .
> 
> and... frankly I don’t give a damn out you.
> 
> your just a stupid ******* that loves to hear himself berate others. Does it make you feel superior?
> 
> better to have mental health issues then ending up like you!
> 
> your worthless talking to. Your just a yee haw red neck that has nothing of intelligence to say. Now go put that ******* hat on and go “play” with your farm animals. I am sure they’ll appreciate the extra caring love.
> 
> And.....When you’re sick of everybody’s shit in the trailer park just go full go full retard.


I have to ask one more time because maybe I’m not getting it.

Things went like this:

Someone posted about his father getting sworn at by another customer at Wal-Mart.

You somehow were triggered by the mentioning of Wal-Mart and that brought back a life-changing horrific memory of the time a staff member was rude to your husband that you subsequently got fired and you explained what you’ll do if you get slighted by someone.

That led to me and a few other inquiring as to what that traumatic Wal-Mart experience had to do with the poster’s father getting spoken to rudely by another customer.

Subsequently, you’ve ranted somewhat nonsensically and rather rudely.

I think that kinda sums it up.

Can you not see why people are asking “WTF is going through her head?”

So I think that’s about all I’m gonna say about this anymore.

And I’ll leave you with this.


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## Guitar101

Wait for it . . . . There is a Walmart connection. (1:20)


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## JBFairthorne

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.

@Lola I’m sorry if you’re offended by me pointing out the over the top, out of context reaction and consequent rant about a misinterpreted story. This seems to be a recurring trend. You say over and over again how you always stand up and say something when people are in the wrong. The only problem is...you never seem to apply that all-knowing, self-righteous mentality to yourself. We all make mistakes. We all periodically say stupid shit. Sometimes the best course of action is to just admit it and move on rather than trying to divert the argument into something else to cover the original error. It just turns a small, silly thing into this huge monstrosity that is obviously causing you stress.

Regarding Covid...

I sure hope it doesn’t drag on. All I seem to do is worry about $ and when the next customer is going to call. It’s like living my life a few days at a time. This week was ok...but far from good. No idea what next week will hold.


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## cdntac

JBFairthorne said:


> You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.
> 
> Regarding Covid...
> 
> I sure hope it doesn’t drag on. All I seem to do is worry about $ and when the next customer is going to call. It’s like living my life a few days at a time. This week was ok...but far from good. No idea what next week will hold.


I can’t imagine what that must be like. That would definitely stress me out.


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## JBFairthorne

It’s brutal. The worst part is that it’s all out of my hands. Traditionally, when things get slow I can ALWAYS go out and hustle up work. Now my hands are tied and I feel like a spectator in my own business/financial life. This is my busiest season and I’m doing 20-30 percent of what I should be. I’m sitting here revising my yearly goals. Custom G&L...gone. In 2 or 3 weeks, summer vacation with my sons....gone. Fuck if it keeps up I’ll be delivering pizza all winter.


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## cdntac

Good luck. Hopefully the store lockdown ends soon. 

Though I have my doubts it will. I can’t see schools in ON going back. And with all those kids home, parents are going to need to be available to look after them. So will Ford keep businesses closed as long as schools are closed? I dunno. I hope not.


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## Wardo

Lola said:


> blah, blah, blah


... lmao, you really are a low life train wreck.


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## MarkM

I really have a great deal of respect for the folks out there that are trapped with a young family and either out of work or trying to work from home!

Especially those in colder climates and that live in densely populated areas that have nothing for them to burn off energy.

The kids in my acerage subdivision have been kicked out of the house in blizzard conditions but I hear fighting, giggling and all kinds of fun sounds. Reminds me of my ill spent youth growing up in mining town trailer parks.

I am an extreme extrovert and thrive on being around people, my bride has been subjected to a cruel punishment for quite some time. She goes to her office in the city where she works alone just to get away from me!

We live in a rural setting so we have a stockpile of essentials a at all times so we just need some fresh produce and milk product. I did need to do the $250 Costco run the other day and was standing in a blizzard for 45 min being herded into the store. I dressed for it, some of those other idiots didn't, can't fix stupid!

Maybe we could just step back and realize that this is affecting people in strange ways and be civil to each other?

This will end.


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## Lola

isn’t funny how two ppl have already pm’d and apologized on your behalves for all the shit your spewing at me. They see why can’t the rest of you?


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## Lola

JBFairthorne said:


> You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.
> 
> @Lola I’m sorry if you’re offended by me pointing out the over the top, out of context reaction and consequent rant about a misinterpreted story. This seems to be a recurring trend. You say over and over again how you always stand up and say something when people are in the wrong. The only problem is...you never seem to apply that all-knowing, self-righteous mentality to yourself. We all make mistakes. We all periodically say stupid shit. Sometimes the best course of action is to just admit it and move on rather than trying to divert the argument into something else to cover the original error. It just turns a small, silly thing into this huge monstrosity that is obviously causing you stress.
> 
> Regarding Covid...
> 
> I sure hope it doesn’t drag on. All I seem to do is worry about $ and when the next customer is going to call. It’s like living my life a few days at a time. This week was ok...but far from good. No idea what next week will hold.


I don’t think I am morally superior.







this too shall pass


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## torndownunit

cdntac said:


> Good luck. Hopefully the store lockdown ends soon.
> 
> Though I have my doubts it will. I can’t see schools in ON going back. And with all those kids home, parents are going to need to be available to look after them. So will Ford keep businesses closed as long as schools are closed? I dunno. I hope not.


I don't think any restrictions will be lifted until they all are at once. It would defeat the purpose of what they are trying to achieve. If you eased of restrictions, you just end up creating a scenario where another spread can happen. Especially after the shit the governments took (rightfully so) for not implementing things quickly enough.


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