# DIY Pedal Building Newbie- A Few Questions



## jcober (Jun 7, 2010)

Hi everyone!

Im new to electronics, but must say I think Im in love with what Ive learned already. I have a few quick questions for you all. Before I begin, please, if this is in the wrong forum, move it to its respective home. Either way, like I said Im hoping to get into building pedals and eventually working my way up to amps. Ive decided I want to start with a simple Fuzz/ OD/ Distortion circuit. Something like an octave down fuzz is what I have my heart most set on. Before I begin this ambitious project, I need to know a few things. Im going to be making my own PCB board and I have the resources to etch my own circuit onto the board as opposed to using a breadboard. The only thing Im fairly unsure of is how I would go about getting a proper print of the circuit to adhere to the one sided copper board that I have. Im told that a simple inkjet printer would do the trick, but Im unsure of how I would go about sizing it and what material to print it on. After that Im fimiliar with the process of etching. Also, if there are any of you who know of some good beginner fuzz pedals to build, Id love to hear your suggestions. Also, if I was just using a simple breadboard and solderless jumper kit, would I just be able to follow a schematic and kindof "do my own thing"?

Thanks so much everyone!
J


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Justin....What about starting with a kit? That way you get all the (correct) parts (without having to run around sourcing them or ordering them from suppliers and spending a fortune on shipping) and you can learn how the schematic correlates to the layout, test out your soldering skills, etc. 

There is a local supplier of kits in Brantford. http://www.axeandyoushallreceive.com/BYOC_KITS.htm#BYOC

Just a thought.

Cheers

PS send me a PM..I have lots of extra stuff you could use.

Dave


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## jcober (Jun 7, 2010)

I have often thought about the kit route...and perhaps starting off with my own is quite ambitious for a starter, but I thought it would feel much more rewarding to build a pedal from scratch. Either way, Ill check out that byoc site you linked to to see whats going on there!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Welcome to the madness.

I've been making my own PCBs and pedals for some 30 years now, so I've learned a thing or two.

You're going to want to look for a few things when launching into making pedals, and especially a first one from scratch.

1) The parts should be easily attainable (and re-attainable in the event of, um, difficulties), cheap enough that you don't mind screwing up, and non-critical enough that you can make substitutions with ease and confidence.

2) The plans and layout should provide enough spacing that you don't have to be an expert to avoid the sorts of problems resulting from tight spacing.

3) The layout should be a time-tested one with known verification.

4) The circuit should not be the sort of thing that requires adjustment or fine-tuning to get working.

5) It should provide you with something useful.

Normally, I recommend to beginners to make themselves a passive loop-selector. It's something simple, and something you will continue to find useful even 10 years from now when you've hit the big time and have roadies to manage all your gear for you. It will let you buy all the cheap crap pedals with plastic cases that you want, and know that you have a sturdy stompswitch to bypass it all with.

However, if you must start with adistortion of some kind, I can recommend the MXR Distortion+ and DOD 250. These are time-honoured boxes, have a pleasing crunch, and are the subject of hundreds of intersting, cheap, easy-to-do mods that will let you learn a lot about what does what. The majority of parts can probably be gotten locally, fairly cheap. And since the circuit is fairly simple, there is plenty of room for a nice relaxed spacious layout, even in a Hammond 1590B box.

You are best-advised to start by heading over to the DIY Stompbox Forum, where I've been an active member for some 15 years and well over 25,000 posts. Great bunch of people, and a source of expert advice. Regulars include the people who design for EHX, Visual Sound, and Z-Vex, plus the odd visit from Way Huge, Hermida, and others.

As for making your own PCBs using transfer methods, you need to use a laser printer or photocopier. Ink jet will not work. You must use a paper or acetate sheet that has a thick-enough emulsion layer over the paper/plastic. The principle underlying toner-transfer is that the toner sticks to the copper board when heated, and that the bond between the toner and copper is stronger than the bond between the emulsion layer on the plastic sheet, glossy magazine paper, or photo paper, such that when the board has cooled off, you can peel the paper/plastic away and the pattern will peel off the paper and stick to the board.

The best material for doing such transfers is this stuff - Home - but it is pricey, and can't be bought locally. Many people have had great results with glossy magazines, since those pages have an emulsion layer over top as well (National Geographics are good candidates), and a great many of us continue to have success with glossy photo paper. Press-n-Peel tends to work best because it has much finer resolution than photo paper; the particles are much smaller so they break off more cleanly from the backing. As well, many beginners have a hard time telling when the pattern has been successfully transfered, and the thinness of PnP makes it easier to tell when you're done (you can see the whole pattern in relief).

Personally, I reserve the PnP for very tight patterns with very thin traces that run close together. Simple 2-3 transistor or single-chip stuff usually has broad-enough spacing that the lower resolution of photo paper is no impediment to perfectly functional boards. I've made some fairly detailed and big boards with it so you should have no problem. usually, dollar store photo paper can do an acceptable job, but I find the shinier the paper the better a job it does.

Most important is starting out with a gleaming copper board, that has been buffed to a nice smooth shine with superfine steel wool, and that you have *kept your stinking hands off of*. "Finger juice" is the nemesis of nice clean speedy etches. Once the board has been buffed, do NOT let your bare fingers come into contact with it.

Etching is best done with a warm etchant bath. I have good success floating a board face down in the etchant, with a goose neck study lamp bent over and shining on the back of the board. The only etchant that really has to be warm is that in direct contact with the copper, so the lamp accomplishes that easily and conveniently.

Again, though, head on over to here to get started: DIYstompboxes.com


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## paraedolia (Nov 26, 2008)

Is there a good online (I live in a rural area and it's a PitA to get to the city to just go buy one) source in Canada for those Hammond boxes? They're made here right? I'd really like a bunch of extra bases too (so I can do a ZVex and run power cables into my vintage pedals without drilling, and velcro expensive boutique pedals w/o destroying resale value ... I know that last one is shallow).


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I can't vouch that they are MADE "right here", since so many businesses based in Canada get stuff made for them offshore. Personally, I have never seen any distributor offer bases for sale separately. This may be the sort of thing you have to contact Hammond about directly, although I still have my doubts; every Hammond box I've ever seen for sale came with a bag of bolts inside and the box and base shrink-wrapped together.

Generally, the best prices for buying a lot of them at once will be from American distributors. If you are just getting into making your own, I would recommend going with the somewhat larger 125-C style rather than the Z-Vex/MXR-sized 1590B size. The 125s strike a nice balance between giving you enough space to put things, while keeping a reasonably small footprint.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Generally, the best prices for buying a lot of them at once will be from American distributors. If you are just getting into making your own, I would recommend going with the somewhat larger 125-C style rather than the Z-Vex/MXR-sized 1590B size. The 125s strike a nice balance between giving you enough space to put things, while keeping a reasonably small footprint.


Definitely and strongly agree that the 125's are nicer to work in, that little bit of extra space makes a huge difference. I get my boxes from pedalpartsplus.com about $6/box, and bonus they do a nice wide variety of good quality paint jobs for $2.30-3.00 per box - wayyyyy cheaper than what I can do when factoring in time. Their communication is great and their shipping is fast.


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## paraedolia (Nov 26, 2008)

Thanks guys -- smallbear offers just bases for their enclosures, kinda surprising no-one else does. I'm sure there's a market for it with all the TGP velcro paranoia  
Might order a few different ones and see what fits the job.


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## Toogy (Apr 16, 2009)

I went to order a few small parts and an enclosure from pedalpartsplus and the shipping was $20? That seems a bit steep for $15 worth of parts? Anywhere in Canada we can buy this stuff cheaper?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Well that's just it. Often it may simply be easier and cheaper to go to a local place and pay a bit more for something than it is to go through the hassle of ordering stuff and paying shipping. I learned my lesson some years back when I ordered some boxes that were dirt cheap...but the "broker" fees ended up costing more than the damn boxes! In the end, the total cost per box was the same as strolling into Active Electronics.

The mail order places are a godsend if you intend on doing anything in volume, but a lot of folks are simply dabblers who'd like to make a pedal or two or three, and spend more time playing music than troubleshooting bad solder joints. In those instances, it's probably smarter to pay $10 for a Hammond box locally than [email protected] ordering 20 of them on-line, and crossing your fingers about the shipping and broker fee charges.

At the risk of being biased, my buddy Steve Daniels at Small Bear Electronics is a real stand-up guy. he was one of the first, if not THE first, people to provide parts for pedal DIY-ers. The business started out asking the folks on the DIY Stompbox forum "Hey, if I could get <part X> for a good price, how many of you guys would be interested in buying, and roughly how many wold you be interested in?", What started out as something he did out of a spare bedroom on top of a full-time job, eventually turned into a small business that employs several people, and has grown because Steve was able to learn what his customers wanted, needed, and would be willing to spend; i.e., prudent inventory acquisition and pricing.

His prices are not ALWAYS the best, but he has pretty much everything you'd want, and since so many of his customers are offshore members of the forum, he has grown skilled at finding ways to keep the shipping costs down for non-U.S. customers, and always makes an effort to look out for the little guy. There are occasional delays - typical of small businesses where one guy down with the flu means all customer service is one vacation - but most folks will swear by his service, and seldom at it.

I'm sure Steve is not unique in the world in this regard, but I can recommend him unhesitatingly.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> At the risk of being biased, my buddy Steve Daniels at Small Bear Electronics is a real stand-up guy. he was one of the first, if not THE first, people to provide parts for pedal DIY-ers. The business started out asking the folks on the DIY Stompbox forum "Hey, if I could get <part X> for a good price, how many of you guys would be interested in buying, and roughly how many wold you be interested in?", What started out as something he did out of a spare bedroom on top of a full-time job, eventually turned into a small business that employs several people, and has grown because Steve was able to learn what his customers wanted, needed, and would be willing to spend; i.e., prudent inventory acquisition and pricing.
> 
> His prices are not ALWAYS the best, but he has pretty much everything you'd want, and since so many of his customers are offshore members of the forum, he has grown skilled at finding ways to keep the shipping costs down for non-U.S. customers, and always makes an effort to look out for the little guy. There are occasional delays - typical of small businesses where one guy down with the flu means all customer service is one vacation - but most folks will swear by his service, and seldom at it.
> 
> I'm sure Steve is not unique in the world in this regard, but I can recommend him unhesitatingly.


Mark...Do you think the demand Canada could support a business like Small Bear Electronics? This is assuming it would be developed and operated in a very similar manner. *I have no dreams of opening another business...I'm just curious as to your opinion. * 

I could also see this business *possibly* being combined with a business (existing or otherwise) that offers products/components for amp building/modding/repair . 

Your thoughts......

Cheers


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## Toogy (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks! I was actually just checking out Small Bear! I'm also interested in their Tweak-O kit to use as a starting point in building pedals, would you recommend that or some other kit somewhere else?

Thanks


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Toogy said:


> Thanks! I was actually just checking out Small Bear! I'm also interested in their Tweak-O kit to use as a starting point in building pedals, would you recommend that or some other kit somewhere else?
> 
> Thanks


The BYOC kits are great, that's how I started out. Went in with a buddy on a multiple order. I ended up with the 250+, Leeds, and Large Beaver. They are all GREAT pedals and led me to understand a lot about how circuits work, and to explore more about DIY. Scott at axeandyoushallreceive.com is the Canadian distributor, and is a great guy to deal with!


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Toogy said:


> I went to order a few small parts and an enclosure from pedalpartsplus and the shipping was $20? That seems a bit steep for $15 worth of parts? Anywhere in Canada we can buy this stuff cheaper?


PPP say somewhere on their site that the shipping in the cart is an ESTIMATE and that they only charge ACTUAL. I have made multiple 3-500$ orders, and every time they have come back to me the day after with a credit adjustment to reflect actual shipping. I don't know why it works that way, but deal with confidence that Connie and crew are NOT out to get rich off the shipping. Not sure how it works on an order that small, if I were you I would call them and ask.

I've also had multiple orders with smallbear, they are OK to deal with but generally slower to ship and very poor communications.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

greco said:


> Mark...Do you think the demand Canada could support a business like Small Bear Electronics? This is assuming it would be developed and operated in a very similar manner. *I have no dreams of opening another business...I'm just curious as to your opinion. *
> 
> I could also see this business *possibly* being combined with a business (existing or otherwise) that offers products/components for amp building/modding/repair .
> 
> ...


I used to dream about starting a business I'd call "DIY Music" that would sell everything from chips, loudspeakers, tolex, and tuning keys, to recording software. Kind of like Small Bear, Stewart-McDonald, and Antique Electronic Supply in one outlet. Time has tempered that vision. Certainly there is a market or niche for having a Canadian distributor, so that "surprises" like broker fees are never encountered, but a lot of companies like Mouser and Digikey have done that already. The Tube Store does an excellent job covering that segment of the market, and there are places that handle just about every aspect you can think of already.

Keep in mind that one of the things Steve Daniels does is find rare parts. Not necessarily visible to the maked eye is that the brunt of his business is not hobbyists but commercial clients. THAT's how he can get custom parts made for him. The finite limits on the supply of the NOS and out-of-production stuff makes it difficult for any more such businesses to spring up. generally, the only places you see on-line are those carrying a limited array of new in-production stuff.

I suppose I wouldn't mind seeing a Canadian outlet for Stewart-McDonald, but that'll come eventually.

Toogy,

People have said nice things about the Tweak-o, though I don't see it as a "keeper". Consider some of the kits from generalguitargadgets too. JD Sleep (proprietor) is also a helluva nice guy.

My usual recommendation for folks just getting into the DIY thing is to make yourself a passive loop selector. There's not much to it, precious little troubleshooting involved, no component selection or matching required, and it will be very useful for a long time, no matter what your tastes change to, unlike a lot of "beginner" distortions. Probably decent resale value too, *because* it is so useful. (Remember that loop selectors give you the gift of true-bypass without having to monkey around with converting or rehousing electronically-switched pedals). Success motivates, and failure frustrates. I like to see people start out with something that works well, and that makes them feel like "Hey, I can be self sufficient!".

Alternatively, keep your eyes peeled for cheap 2nd hand pedals and stretch your wings with mods to existing functioning pedals. Also a valid way to learn.


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## Toogy (Apr 16, 2009)

I ended up ordering what I needed from Pedal Parts Plus. For my first project I'm going to rehouse a old DOD FX65 Chorus pedal into a new enclosure and see how that goes!

I ordered a 1590 enclosure, 3PDT switch, knobs, DC Jack, LED, LED bezel and battery clip. Hopefully that is everything I'll need to rehouse the DOD.


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