# Opinions on Epiphone Sheraton, Casino and Dot.



## JimiGuy7 (Jan 10, 2008)

Hi, I am in the market for a hollow or semi hollow guitar to play some slide and blues picking on. My uncle owns a Gibson ES335 and I love it but let's fase it, I don't have that kind of cash so I am looking to the faithful crew here to help steer me in the right direction as to what I should check out. I don't want to pay for any mods (ie. pickups or anything) I just waqnt a guitar out of the box that will suit my needs. Also the Sheraton seems to be the exact same guitar as the Dot just with gold hardware and some fancy inlays, am I wrong? I am leaning more towards the Casino but I need some help and/or opinions.


----------



## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

This might be up your alley...... I have it for sale pm me for details 

It's a Tokai with GFS 180's in it sweet or raunchy. I am probably 2 hrs from you.


----------



## sliberty (May 17, 2008)

The Sheraton is really nice, but it wasn't for me. I picked up a Riviera, and liked it a lot, but ended up selling it because I am really a solid body kind-o
guy. The Casino is nice too, and I love P90's, but it is fully hollow, not semi hollow, and the feedback can be out of control. My opinion of the Dot is rather low. I have never played one that I thought was well made or setup properly. They all played like crap (IMHO).


----------



## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

My 2 cents, I love your Tokai, shoretyus! Great guitar, great pickups!


----------



## Tarl (Feb 4, 2006)

That Tokai is a beauty. Jimiguy7.......if you don't get something used like the Tokai, I would go with the Dot or even the Dot studio.......alot of guitar for the money and very versitile.


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

The neck joint is different on the Casino from the Dot, Riviera and Sheraton in addition to being a hollow body instead of a semi. It is goes deeper into the body by about two frets, so you have less upper fret access. I have no idea what that does for the sound, but it is another unique characteristic of the Casino.


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

I have a Dot and I couldn't be happier with it.



> My opinion of the Dot is rather low. I have never played one that I thought was well made or setup properly. They all played like crap (IMHO).


This is true to a certain degree. My Dot *sounded* good from the get go, but didn't play well until it had received a really thorough setup, which included some serious fret-levelling and dressing.

The Dot is sort of an investment guitar. It's priced well, but it *does* need some work either by the purchaser (if you can do it yourself) or by a pro to get it sounding right. Usual Epiphone procedure is required, such as replacing pickups, electronics and hardware as you see fit. I find pickups to be the first thing that should be addressed, followed by electronics (RS kits are always good) and finally hardware (bridge, tailpiece, tuners). This will obviously raise the cost of the guitar, so you might want to factor that in at the get go, or allow for expenses over some time, however, you still get a kick-ass sounding axe for 1/3 what you would pay for a Gibson 335.

FWIW, I compared the Sheraton to the Dot and didn't think the Sheraton or the Sheraton II were worth the additional cost. The Dot I played resonated better and had an overall better tone. Maybe I got lucky, but check it out for yourself. Also, the Elitist models are phenomenal, but something like the Sheraton Elite is going to run you an awful lot of coin. Finally, I didn't like the Dot Studio. Cosmetically, the lack of binding didn't do it for me, and practically, I don't like the lack of volume/tone knobs for both pickups.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Any of them will do, take them for a test drive and find out what feels and sounds best.

I like my Dot too, but never was there a guitar which didn't require my tinkering with the set-up. The machine heads were supposed to have been Grovers according to the hype, but were some piece of crap instead, so I replaced them with black chrome Gotoh 510s. The pickups are pretty generic sounding, but I haven't replaced them...yet. I like the single volume, tone, and selector switch, kinda Tele like in that regard. Mine was a factory second (finish flaw) so I don't mind the extra hotrodding expense.

Peace, Mooh.


----------



## JSD's Guitar Shack (Feb 24, 2006)

This Lanscape semi hollow is a real nice piece, excellent quality and no mods needed. Its like a 335 but single cutaway.


----------



## a Pack of Wolves (Sep 5, 2007)

i have owned a DOT for a few years (i think it's a kroean one from 5 years ago)

and other than changing the nut (i put a graphtech one on)
it was good from the onset

reasonable price and all the sound of a regular 335


----------



## Guest (Jun 17, 2008)

I own a Joe Pass Epi (emporer II). Sweet player
but as others have mentioned, the pups and
hardware need replacing. It's not a jazz box or
a thin line, but right in between at about 3" thick.


----------



## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

What's your budget? I'd go for that Tokai over an Epi any day, unless maybe a MIJ Epi Elitist (but those can get quite pricey). Or look for an Ibanez -- they do a nice 335-ish line called Artstar (or is it Artcore??). Then there's the Heritage guitars which are excellent, but again a bit pricier.


----------



## danbo (Nov 27, 2006)

Epi Broadway..otherwise get a PRS Se Custom Semi-Hollow.
I got the Epi Studio Dot & find the sound thin..it's my slide guitar for now. You get what you pay for..spend wisely! :food-smiley-004:


----------



## PaulS (Feb 27, 2006)

Find an older Sheraton, change the pups and your good to go....


----------



## Tightbutloose (Apr 20, 2008)

I gigged for years with an Epi Dot without any problems.
I changed the pickups, pots and nut and it holds it's own against my other "big name" guitars.
Good bang for the buck, but you gotta play a bunch until you find a good one.

I've also played a Tokai 335 copy which totally SMOKED :rockon:


----------



## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

shoretyus said:


>


That one is sooooooo hot! Is it a Japanese one?


----------



## JimiGuy7 (Jan 10, 2008)

Yeah I think I like the Tokai as well, they always produced great guitars. I had a Tokai Les Paul copy and I kick myself all the time for getting rid of it, but whatever.

But what about the GFS pickups? To be honest, I have never encountered them before and I don't know what to think. Anyone tried the GFS Drean 180before? Anyone think the original Tokai pickups might sound better or maybe they are what made the guitar? Thanks for the help and keep it comin.


----------



## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

JimiGuy7 said:


> But what about the GFS pickups? To be honest, I have never encountered them before and I don't know what to think. Anyone tried the GFS Drean 180before? Anyone think the original Tokai pickups might sound better or maybe they are what made the guitar? Thanks for the help and keep it comin.


Yeah me in THAT guitar. There are two of those guitars floating around the 'hood. I spent a night switching between one with and mine without. You see what I thought of them :smile: but as i said in my PM to you you want the originals I would keep the 180's no problem. I will just build a guitar around them. 

Ti-Ron ... I think it's a China geetar. Well made nice finish I love it. The only reason to sell is that the winters build filled the barn. Think it's hard selling a guitar that you like? Try to sell the ones you built:rockon:


----------



## User_X (Feb 1, 2008)

I recently got a used Dot. Great deal. Neck size, shape, finish, frets, setup were all good to excellent. Tuners are good. Acoustic balance is good, actually sounds better than a typical 335 (acoustically less middy).

BUT- pups lack clarity, even wide open and, maybe mine is weird, but the cutaway is smaller than a 335 or an Epi Lucille I tried, so is slightly restrictive for space on the high frets. Where is the perfect guitar?


----------



## twoonie2 (Jan 19, 2008)

*Awesome hollowbodies!!!!*

Been G.A.S. 'ing after a hollowbody myself just recently... tried the dots - then once I tried a Gretsch G5120 there was no comparison IMO...

Check one out if you get a chance...

http://www.gretschguitars.com/gear/index.php?product=G5120&cat1=&cat2=&q=&st=1

The one I tried out was a cherry color - sounded sweet unplugged as well as plugged in.. but I've heard that dropping some TV Jones pickups into it make it sound even more awesome!! it was in the $859 range at one of the local guitar shops.. but I've seen them go for $599 through musicians' friend + taxes and shipping.. 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...-Hollow-Body-with-DualCoil-Pickups?sku=513282

another model I'm currently looking at.. (looks super versatile) is the Schecter Corsair bigsby

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Schecter-Corsair-Bigsby-Electric-Guitar?sku=513843

Has Duncan Designed pickups + Coil Tap (You can always change the pickups out if you don't like them).. 

Also considering one of these bad boys... ESP PC-1V

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-ESP-PC1V-LIST

It has the Seymour Duncan Alnico 2 Pro Set and is a semi-hollow.. 

happy hunting!!


----------



## sliberty (May 17, 2008)

I like some of the Schecter guitars I have played, but I have hated every Duncan Design pickup I have ever tried. They have no string definition - just pure mudd. Real Duncans are nice pickups, but the DD stuff is crap IMHO. If you buy one with DD's, plan on the cost of replacing them at some point.


----------



## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

hollowbody said:


> This will obviously raise the cost of the guitar, so you might want to factor that in at the get go, or allow for expenses over some time, however, you still get a kick-ass sounding axe for 1/3 what you would pay for a Gibson 335.


Just out of interest, how much did it eventually cost altogether -- setup + mods? 
You can get a 335 for ~$1500 if you shop around or a Heritage 535 for ~$1200. I haven't seen a stock epi dot for less that $500, and way more if you want an elitist


----------



## sliberty (May 17, 2008)

Standard Epi Dot's don't cost that much in the US - can't speak for north of the border.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=epiphone+dot&st=


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

devnulljp said:


> Just out of interest, how much did it eventually cost altogether -- setup + mods?
> You can get a 335 for ~$1500 if you shop around or a Heritage 535 for ~$1200. I haven't seen a stock epi dot for less that $500, and way more if you want an elitist


Depends where you go. I found a great sounding one on the floor at Renaissance Music in Kingston. With case it cost me $560 taxes in. Setup and fret dress I got done for $60 at a private guitar tech. The Gibson 57 pups I had previously installed in my Epi SG, so I salvaged them from there, though they cost me $310+tax new in 2001. The vintage wiring harness I found "used" for $75.

560+60+75 = 695

I may have held off on the pickups if I didn't already own them, but even if you were to add 310, you're looking at $1005 dollars, though you can find the 57 set used for a lot less. Realistically, it would come out to roughly $900-1000.

Sure, it's getting close to ES-335 money, but I actually can't say I've seen an ES for 1500, more like 1700 or so. Plus, this is a brand new guitar.

Is it worth the investment? Well, let put it this way, I have an American Deluxe Strat, and sometimes I prefer playing the Dot. I love my Strat, but the Dot feels so great in my hands sometimes that I go for a long, long time before I reach for the Strat. I think for the price, it is a great-sounding, great-playing guitar that is completely gig-worthy. I would confidently put my Dot up against ANY ES-335 and expect it to sound just as good. Yeah, the headstock doesn't say Gibson on it, and yes, I would one day like to own a real Gibson 335, but in the meantime, my Dot is a more-than-competent replacement.


----------



## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

Yes, I'm doing that myself, upgrading a cheapie guitar...only in my case it's a $150 Danelectro, with addition of new electrics, pickups, tuners. The pickups cost more than the guitar, but it's really cool, so I don't grudge it.
Still wouldn't pay a grand for a Korean/Chinese/Indonesian epiphone though. For a tiny sum more you could get a MIJ elitist, or an Ibanez or a Heritage. 
My 335 cost $1850 with a set of SD Antiquities already installed. Pretty happy with that


----------



## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

hollowbody said:


> I would confidently put my Dot up against ANY ES-335 and expect it to sound just as good. Yeah, the headstock doesn't say Gibson on it


I used to have an Epiphone Sheraton II modded with probably my favorite pickups in the world, Duncan Antiquity humbuckers. It played and sounded great. I used to share your opinion that it could hang with any real Gibson ES-335. But I was wrong. I have the real deal today. Gibson's are inconsistent (all guitars are, really) but when you find a good one, it's in a different class entirely from a modded Epiphone. There are things that you cannot upgrade on an Epiphone. My Gibson brought my playing to a whole other level.

Mind you, if I had a very limited budget, I would still buy an Epiphone Dot and put Antiquities in it. Killer guitar for the price. But don't delude yourself that it's in the same class as good 335.


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

pattste said:


> But don't delude yourself that it's in the same class as good 335.


I completely agree. The most glaring of the Epi's shortcomings is the wood. It's not going to feel as good, or play as nicely as a good Gibson. But what i think is the strength of my Epi is its sound. I'm talking plugged in and played live. Sure, a Gibson might record better because it may just sound that wee little bit better because of the wood used in its construction, but I would argue that at a live performance, at stage volumes, those little nuances of tone that better wood gives you aren't quite as noticeable. In that situation, I would have to say that yes, my Dot sounds as good. 

I had a chance to jam with a guy with a '63 Gibson-335. Sounded beautiful, looked gorgeous, and played like a dream. However, I would be hard pressed to say that his guitar sounded _that_ much better. Sure, it was a great axe. Would I want it? In a heartbeat! Can I afford it? Sadly, no. And I have no uncles who rocked in the 60's to pass one on to me either.

I know this has been a long-standing argument: do modded Mexi Fenders/Epis sound as good as their US big brothers? I don't want to annoy anyone who owns a legit Gibby, and I one day aspire to be one of you, but at the moment, _to my ears_ my Dot holds up quite nicely and I really can't justify the extra expense. :rockon:


----------



## Cadence (Nov 20, 2007)

I was in the same boat as the OP earlier this year - jonesin' for a semi-hollowbody :smile: A friend of mine had an Epi - I THINK a Dot or Sheraton and it sounded nice.

I tried some Dots at the store and they just sounded cheap. I don't think I tried a Sheraton. The higher end, jazz model, Ibanez Artwoods were nice, but weren't as versatile (with only the one humbucker) for what I wanted. I ended up with an Epiphone Riviera like someone else here. Now I just need an amp that does it better justice than my bass Yorkville...

Cadence


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

For what it's worth, and because someone asked me, my aforementioned Epiphone Dot Studio was a factory second due to a finish flaw in the top bass side cutaway. I simply buffed it out, though it's very slightly noticeable in the right light. Anyway, $300 plus tax. Bang for the buck.

Peace, Mooh.


----------



## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


----------

