# Refinishing a cheap guitar with nitro



## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Was looking to repaint a Pacifica, and thought maybe a good time to try nitro before I refinish my vintage Hagstrom. 

Plan was to sand off the paint, but expecting a good layer underneath of probably poly... seems to be what's on most cheap guitars like the last Yamaha and few Squiers I repainted.

The site recommends a sealer, a white primer, the nitro, plus a clear for solid colour finishes. 

Do I need all that? Did Fender do all that back in the day?

I was thinking sand down to existing sealer, then solid colour paint, cure a few weeks then wetsand and polish.


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

I'd try that yes. Down to the exesting sealer, ensure a perfectly smooth sirface, Then colour and then Clear.
I recently had very good experience with Duplicolour blue (Canadian Tire) combined with Watco Clear. (Home Depot)


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I was under the impression that the nitro needs to bond to the sealer. No sealer the nitro won't stick


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## nnieman (Jun 19, 2013)

You dont need to clear coat over top of the colour, it just helps protect the colour.

If you sand down to the existing sealer coat you should be ok to paint over top of that.

If you want a perfect finish that will stay looking nice then follow all of the steps.

Nathan


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Nitro and a non-nitro sealer need to be separated for best adhesion - you can try shellac as a barrier.

The reason for a solid colour primer under solid colour coats is uniformity/control of said colour coats, regardless of the colour of the base material. Also, some woods may require many coats of colour to cover and a coloured sealer is cheaper than a coloured top coat.

Nitro filled with pigments (colour) are generally softer than straight clear coats, a clear coat will make it wear better, even look deeper and will guaranteed produce a higher sheen - but yellowed clear coats will change the finished colour, look for what is known as "water white" clear nitro for topcoats on solid colours.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Can nitro be sprayed over a tru-oil finish?


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Markus 1 said:


> I'd try that yes. Down to the exesting sealer, ensure a perfectly smooth sirface, Then colour and then Clear.
> I recently had very good experience with Duplicolour blue (Canadian Tire) combined with Watco Clear. (Home Depot)


Well, I'm asking more specifically about nitro... not stuff like Duplicolor.

Otherwise, I sand to the sealer, 300grit, and I order paint from Napa/Ideal Supply. Usually I get a metallic mixed and use a 2k clear which works great. Last time I got a solid colour no pearl or metallic and had it mixed as a 2k paint and that worked really well. Wet sanding was good and got a great smooth shine.

I'm torn between Daphne Blue, Sonic Blue and Surf Green... all would work with a single stage 2k.

Nitro... never used. Read you need a flexible sealer, primer, paint and clear... which not sure if overkill, marketing to sell more, or just soray a can of solid colour nitro and in a few weeks or more wetsand and done.

For the Hagstrom, its gonna be a translucent cherry... and I have to sand to wood... so I'll use the vinyl sealer, red, then clear.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

knight_yyz said:


> I was under the impression that the nitro needs to bond to the sealer. No sealer the nitro won't stick


It'll have a sealer coat, but not the recommended type. I assume it'll be poly not vinyl. Not sure if means sand it off, or I need a sealer on the sealer for stick... like vinyl or shellac.


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

THRobinson said:


> Well, I'm asking more specifically about nitro... not stuff like Duplicolor.
> 
> Otherwise, I sand to the sealer, 300grit, and I order paint from Napa/Ideal Supply. Usually I get a metallic mixed and use a 2k clear which works great. Last time I got a solid colour no pearl or metallic and had it mixed as a 2k paint and that worked really well. Wet sanding was good and got a great smooth shine.
> 
> ...


Duplicator is nitro from my best understanding. Nitro clear burns into it very well.

So if Duplicolor indeed is nitro, and for me it adhered to a previously existing base coat, you should be fine.
My 2 cents


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Markus 1 said:


> Duplicator is nitro from my best understanding. Nitro clear burns into it very well.
> 
> So if Duplicolor indeed is nitro, and for me it adhered to a previously existing base coat, you should be fine.
> My 2 cents


Now I'm lost a bit... I know Dupli-Color at Canadian Tire, that near-match colour paint for about $9 a can... that's an acrylic lacquer from what the site says.

I'm not sure what Duplicator is... or if that was a typo... if it's a brand, then it might be nitro, I've never seen it before.

Watco clear... may/not be nitro. I know there is a version that has nitro in it, but last year when I tried to find it at Canadian Tire and Home Hardware, they said it was on their order list but greyed out, meaning it exists but not allowed to carry it or order it in for me because of the nitro. Home Depot is like an hour away or more so rare I ever go there.

I know Behlen/Mohawk has nitro, I was thinking or buying a rattlecan from Great Lakes Custom Colours because they have the colours already made and I don't have spray guns yet.


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Hi THRobinson.

I don't want to mislead, just offer my experience. 
-Duplicolor (duplicator was a typo) from Canadian Tire: the folks at Guitar Reranch forum treat this as totally compatible with Nitro. Maybe because it shares the same solvents and thus it works. I wasn't aware that it is in fact acrylic lacquer.

The Watco I use is in a brush on form, though I thought some folks have reported seeing it in spray cans. It contains nitro as far as my understanding goes and it burns into the Duplicolor just beautifully.
I used to have access to spray equipment pre Covid.
This time I thinned the Watco a little and brushed on, and wet sanded : 400, 800, 1500, 2000 grit followed by polishing compound on a buffing wheel 

Maybe Mohawk is more of a one stop shop. I'd be interested to try that next

Markus


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

there is also the catalyzed vs non catalyzed... Non catalyzed needs a special sealer if I am not mistaken


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Nitro is starting sound like a PITA. 

I know I want to use it on the Hagstrom and don't mind paying extra to get the proper sealer, tint, clear... the Pacifica I just wanted to use to get familiar with how it sprays and if will react well where I'll be spraying, in terms of heat, moisture and if will cause clouding and such.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

It is a pain. I've watched some youtube stuff and the luthier is spraying a vinyl sealer before the nitro, and I've seen other's where they just spray the nitro over the grain filler... I think it all depends on the brand you buy. I think you are ok with Mohawk as it is already catalyzed, but I could be completely wrong on that.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Ya, that's what I hate about this stuff... it's one of those things where I'd love to be able to hop online and 100% of everyone does it the same way. 

greatlakescustomcolour.com

Thinking of trying from here because the colours are already mixed. I know how they mix nitro with dye for translucent finishes, but no idea what you mix with nitro for solid colours. I chatted with them a short while ago and they're going to be releasing some Gibson colours like Heritage Cherry and such, which is what I want for the Hagstrom project.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

THRobinson said:


> Ya, that's what I hate about this stuff... it's one of those things where I'd love to be able to hop online and 100% of everyone does it the same way.
> 
> greatlakescustomcolour.com
> 
> Thinking of trying from here because the colours are already mixed. I know how they mix nitro with dye for translucent finishes, but no idea what you mix with nitro for solid colours. I chatted with them a short while ago and they're going to be releasing some Gibson colours like Heritage Cherry and such, which is what I want for the Hagstrom project.


It's true there's many opinions and plenty of info both good and bad on the forums, in the end you just need to start spraying, make sure to take your tech advice from the manufacturer of the product you're using, then you'll be set to learn plenty from your experience. 

In my other life at work in the millwork business we mix colours in lacquer for projects all the time, usually to a customer specified Benjamin Moore or similar paint chip. I can tell you most solid colours can be matched by taking a white lacquer base and tinting it with either NGR or with Universal Colour pigment (cut with thinner).

Using the right tint you can can do lots, you can make any shade of solid blue from the lightest pastel to Daphne to Sonic and deeper simply by taking a white lacquer base and adding blue NGR by the drop until you like what you see, add blue NGR to clear coats for any shade of translucent "denim" - Gibson SG/335 Cherry Red by adding red NGR to clear coats.

About rattle cans, while they're convenient they contain relatively little material and it's generally very thinned out and low solids, so it takes a lot of cans and more time to seal and fill the wood to the extent you could with a spray gun set up.

Best of luck and happy spraying...


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

If you use Dupliclor acrylic lacquer use Duplicolor primer made for it. I used a random extra can of primer I had (dumb move) and the lacquer chips off very easily...it didn't bond to the primer. The primer is stuck well to the wood underneath though.
And I used 4 cans to get it finished.
Then I sprayed Watco clear brushing lacquer, after thinning with lacquer thinner and acetone.
Then I had to wet sand all the orange peel off 3 weeks later.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

@Jimmy_D I do plan to get spray guns. I gutted the workshop, and ran outta steam. Hate building a work shop. I want a shop to work IN not to work ON.  I do have a 27gal 3HP compressor, so the plan is there but, no workshop yet. 

@tomee2 Dupli-color sucks.  There... I said it.  I tried it before on cars and just never had luck with it to be honest so I avoided it on guitars. If I decide to not use nitro... I'll go to NAPA/IdealSupply and get paint mixed there. Typically I use a very light grey epoxy primer by SprayMax, then I'll get either a 1 stage paint mixed, or if it is a pearl/metallic I get the paint mixed and finish with a 2K Spraymax glossy clear. I empty the full fan of clear and despite being a 2K I still wait a full week or more before I level sand it and wetsand, polish etc.


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