# In praise of the lowly Rat pedal



## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

The classic ProCo Rat pedal might conjure up notions of high gain distortion and fuzz-like gain tones, but the fact remains - it can be a pretty damn toneful, versatile tool with lots of great low to moderate gain OD functionality also.

Picked up a '91 Vintage Rat "big box" RI to play with my '66 Bassman recently (LM308P chip). While perfect for my gigging needs, the Bassman hasn't been played out lately as our band wound down in May. With it being relegated to basement duty, basically needed something to push the front end a bit harder at modest volume settings and/or develop "foundational" dirtier tones. I jam there with my son there for fun/help maintain our chops and he often does the same thing via a bass SansAmp pedal into his Ampeg SVT Pro rig.

While I've tried several different options including a few of the usual suspect TS-derived OD's for that purpose, never quite found something that really made me smile as a foundational dirt tone or was versatile enough as a stand-alone. Got a solid tip on the Rat from someone whose rig was essentially the same as mine and was copping some great tones, albeit his material was admittedly leaned towards the higher gain realm than the space I generally inhabit. As such, I wasn't quite sure what the Rat had in store for my situation.

I find my 'sweet spot' with the pedal's controls set at/about 10-12-2 o'clock (\ l /) positions - lots of versatility there using the guitar's vol/tone controls. The thing that really surprises me are the clean tones with just a touch of grit on tap if you dig in harder - pedal actually has pretty great touch dynamics/sensitivity. It plays pretty well with all my guitars, but I prefer the Rat a bit more for HB's/minis over single coil/P90's.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

gtone said:


> The classic ProCo Rat pedal might conjure up notions of high gain distortion and fuzz-like gain tones, but the fact remains - it can be a pretty damn toneful, versatile tool with lots of great low to moderate gain OD functionality also.
> 
> Picked up a '91 Vintage Rat "big box" RI to play with my '66 Bassman recently (LM308P chip). While perfect for my gigging needs, the Bassman hasn't been played out lately as our band wound down in May. With it being relegated to basement duty, basically needed something to push the front end a bit harder at modest volume settings and/or develop "foundational" dirtier tones. I jam there with my son there for fun/help maintain our chops and he often does the same thing via a bass SansAmp pedal into his Ampeg SVT Pro rig.
> 
> ...


I had an original small-box Rat for a while and I really, really liked it. Like a dolt, I traded it away for a green Big Muff, which I ended up selling soon after. I should've kept the Rat.

Sure, it could get pretty wild, but like you said, it had a range of character that was pretty useful.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

One of the best tones I ever had was a RAT at about noon on gain, into my Hiwatt Custom 50 and a Marshall HW 4x12 with G12H30's, and a Telecaster. It just RIPPED, hard rock nirvana. These days I prefer the slightly crunchier LED clipped version (RAT Turbo I think) but any LM308 RAT can be dialed in for my purposes with just about any rig.


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

Lowly? It's the first pedal I grab. Always.
A rat and a delay and I'm good to go


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

puckhead said:


> Lowly? It's the first pedal I grab. Always.
> A rat and a delay and I'm good to go


When I hear it described in terms of "just a Rat pedal" or "cheezy", I often wonder myself if that reputation is deserved. It might not look fancy or have any boutique pretensions about it, but it seems to be a useful, tone-shaping tool with the right rig. Maybe it was the initial price that threw some people off - ie the mindset that anything that was that prototypical and inexpensive couldn't be good after all these years. Dunno...


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I haven't tried a ProCo, but I do have a Hartman LM308.
I do love the singing sustain that it has, it's just a bit dark for my tastes.
I can see why that it's a good pairing with a Tele.
They're popular over at TDPRI.

I think that they fall into the same category/stigma as BOSS pedals.
Same reason you mentioned, if they're cheap, they mustn't be any good.
Yet, they're classic, road worthy, proven units, that stand the test of time.

If any gear works for you, regardless of price point, it works.


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

I thought the Rat was a great pedal! I remember playing one through a friend's rig--an old Firebird into a Twin. Sounded awesome.


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## elliottmoose (Aug 20, 2012)

I've always been a fan of the Rat as a dirt pedal but it was Shnobel's shootout of the 'lowly' rat vs all sorts of pedals that opened my eyes to the low-gain drive tones you can get out of one too.

I agree though: best used with single coils, but I prefer single coil over humbucker in general.


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## Mr Yerp (Feb 24, 2006)

I've had one for quite a while, but rarely use it, and have considered parting with it. I find it rig specific as others have mentioned. I bought it because of playing one through a Traynor Bassmate into a Greenback 1x12 cab. With my P90s LP, it was killer. Other setups, not so much. Lots of great players hold them in high regard, that's for sure.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I have a couple I made. Decent pedal. Easily tailored tone, and open to interesting mods for that purpose.

One of its design features is that, unlike a DOD250/Dist+ or any of the TS derivatives, the gain is not simply progressively rolled off below some point in the lower mids. Rather, the gain for the low end is relatively flat throughout the bass register and there is more gain applied above the mids such that bass is preserved, and clipping applied more to the top end. Solves a lot of the "mid-hump" issues that people complain about in TS-type pedals and others, though admittedly, the Rat is aiming for more intense territory.


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## TheRumRunner (Sep 29, 2011)

What more does a guy need?



DW


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

mhammer said:


> I have a couple I made. Decent pedal. Easily tailored tone, and open to interesting mods for that purpose.


Hi Mark, does it really need to be based on LM308 ? Thanks, Damir


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

I had a white face reissue for a while

great pedal. would pick one up again if I could


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

"_*Hi Mark, does it really need to be based on LM308 ? Thanks, Damir*_"

(_Took me a little while to connect the name, but I eventually DID remember. Hopefully, we can chat at the November thing out in Kanata._)

Yes and no. At lower gain settings, it will behave like any other op-amp feeding a couple of diodes. At higher gain settings, though, the limitations of the LM308 come into play, and the sound the pedal produces is a byproduct of those specific limitations, in addition to the diodes and such.

If you look at the datasheet for any op-amp, you will often (though not always) see a graph titled "open-loop bandwidth", "open loop frequency response", "gain bandwidth product", or something similar. This will be a graph that shows the maximum gain the chip is capable of producing at any given frequency. This is sort of related to what is termed "slew rate", but is not exactly the same thing. The general principle linking the two, though, revolves around how quickly the chip can respond to the demand for instantly producing a big voltage swing, and it is the case that BIG swings are only possible if the chip can do them slowly enough. This is visually depicted as a line sloping down as it goes to the right.

In the case of the LM308, if you ask it to produce a gain of 2000x (=66db), it can do that for content below about 500hz, but not for stuff higher than that. And a stock Rat, with the gain dimed is actually aiming for gain >3000! By comparison, a 4558 can do 66db out to around 1khz, and a 5534/5532 out to around 4khz. There are two outcomes of using the 308 in high gain situations. One is that the annoying upper mids and treble that a distortion produces at high gain settings are attenuated, such that the Rat comes with its own sort of compensating tone control. The other thing is a sort of oscillation that the original designer called a sort of "whooo" under the basic audio signal.

From a quick gaze at datasheets, it would seem that the LM748 can also behave a bit like the 308.

But as I say, the specific chip only starts to matter when the gain goes up higher. So, for instance, although max gain in the Rat is crazy unrealistically high, a gain of 150x will produce a nice pleasing crunch to power chords, but the chip appears to be fine out to around 4-5khz at that gain level.


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

Thanks Mark, I appreciate your help :smile-new:
P.S.
Yes, I'll be there, this time as a seller as well, I'm hoping to meet You :smile-new:


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## hjr2 (Sep 5, 2013)

Love The Rat. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zw5YaevE5A


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

hjr2 said:


> Love The Rat.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zw5YaevE5A


Nice clip - good tone, solid playing. What's not to like, huh?

- - - Updated - - -



TheRumRunner said:


> What more does a guy need?
> 
> 
> 
> DW



Epitomy of rural paradise, no? (I might swap the Tele for my Firebird V, but that's maybe it...). :applouse:


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## hjr2 (Sep 5, 2013)

TheRumRunner said:


> What more does a guy need?
> 
> 
> 
> DW


What more does a guy need? Beer!


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

epis said:


> Hi Mark, does it really need to be based on LM308 ? Thanks, Damir


Today I built a Rat clone with LM308 (thanks to my dear fellow Ottawan, Mr. Mark Hammer)
It's an amazing pedal, sounds so smooth with humbuckers, I tried also LM741,LF356,OPA27 in it, pedal kept the Rat sound, but magic was there only with LM308.
Thanks one more time Mark :applouse:


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

My pleasure, sir. 

P.s. The Ibanez LP rebuild is coming along nicely...so thanks in return.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

TheRumRunner said:


> What more does a guy need?
> 
> 
> 
> DW


If I've ever seen a pic that made me miss summer more....f'n cold.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

*I love my rats...*

I've probably had about 10 of them. I even sent out a deucetone to get modded by keeley on BOTH sides (the pedal stunk despite my efforts to create the super rat). 

Without a doubt, the absolute best pedal was my 1981 big box. All the pedals were tried through the same rig, and this pedal was more dynamic, smoother, and richer than any of the others.

Trust me when I say that this is the one you go for.

I also had an original 1985 whiteface and currently have the reissue. Since I didn't own them at the same time, I can't say for certain which is better.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Many years ago I was visiting relatives in Sherbrooke & we went over to one of my uncle's guitar buddies. He had a BF Deluxe Reverb, Am Std Strat & a Rat. Holy schneike, I sounded like Ronnie Montrose! I was all excited to see a vintage DR live & in the flesh but I wish I would've paid more attention to the version of pedal that he had.


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