# Bb or A#?



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Why does my musical notation software have a Bb but no A#. I get why there’s no B# but I thought A# and Bb were the same thing?


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

They are the same Mark but everyone has his way of calling it.


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)




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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

It *must* have an A-sharp! What would it write if you were in E major and needed an F-sharp major chord?


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Doug Gifford said:


> It *must* have an A-sharp! What would it write if you were in E major and needed an F-sharp major chord?


I could manually add it with a sharpie on the iPad screen?


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Which software do you use? Does the #/b designation depend which key you are in?


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

Doug Gifford said:


> It *must* have an A-sharp! What would it write if you were in E major and needed an F-sharp major chord?


Much more likely that you’ll need that note in B, F# or C# Major and their relative minors.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

1SweetRide said:


> Why does my musical notation software have a Bb but no A#. I get why there’s no B# but I thought A# and Bb were the same thing?


They are the same tone. I would say your software is faulty and it should have a A# in it. It all comes down to the intervals (step pattern) and some scale will require a A#. You can't have B flat and a B in the same scale . It should be A# and B.

Edit. I just the circle of fifths and they do not have a A# either but I will find a scale when I get home that requires a A# notation.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

bw66 said:


> Which software do you use? Does the #/b designation depend which key you are in?


I’m using Capo. No, it normally lists all available chord versions. Just not A#.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

It's key dependant. If there isn't an A# available, poorly design software.


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

1SweetRide said:


> Why does my musical notation software have a Bb but no A#. I get why there’s no B# but I thought A# and Bb were the same thing?



Key of A#, or the note A#? The first does not exist, the second does.

Think of it this way...... A Bb major triad is the root chord, (the "home" chord) of the Bb major scale. The key signature for Bb major is two flats.

There is no such thing as an A# major scale, as there is no such key signature as A#.

As an individual note, A# and Bb are enharmonic spellings of the same thing. As a chord or key signature , A# simply doesn't exist.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Paul M said:


> Key of A#, or the note A#? The first does not exist, the second does.
> 
> Think of it this way...... A Bb major triad is the root chord, (the "home" chord) of the Bb major scale. The key signature for Bb major is two flats.
> 
> ...


That explains it. I should have mentioned earlier that it was the chord I was looking for, not the notation for the note. I was foolishly thinking because sharps and flat notes can be the same note, that the same applied to chords. But thinking more on it, that's incorrect as the chord is named after the root note of the, uhm, note.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Dorian2 said:


> It's key dependant. If there isn't an A# available, poorly design software.


We now know the reason, I forgot to mention it was a chord I was looking for. I'm slowly, slowly trying to learn more theory.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

The key of A# would have four sharps and three double sharps. It is a theoretical key. No one could ever figure out how to play it so it is never used. Bb is always substituted. For chords call it whatever you want based on the key you are playing in.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Kerry Brown said:


> The key of A# would have four sharps and three double sharps. It is a theoretical key. No one could ever figure out how to play it so it is never used. Bb is always substituted. For chords call it whatever you want based on the key you are playing in.


Frank Zappa could.  This kind of theory can get pretty tricky with common music structure for most. It's generally agreed that the note E does not have a sharp associated with it. But when you go into the Modes, the key of F# Major's 7th degree mode is E# Locrian. I think as long as we keep in mind that this structure is meant to allow musicians a way of being, for lack of a better term, "grammatically correct" given a specific piece of music to follow along with others playing the same piece, it comes into context. This shit rarely comes into effect for everyday players like you or me. It's more for the bicycle helmet special folks.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Dorian2 said:


> Frank Zappa could.  This kind of theory can get pretty tricky with common music structure for most. It's generally agreed that the note E does not have a sharp associated with it. But when you go into the Modes, the key of F# Major's 7th degree mode is E# Locrian. I think as long as we keep in mind that this structure is meant to allow musicians a way of being, for lack of a better term, "grammatically correct" given a specific piece of music to follow along with others playing the same piece, it comes into context. This shit rarely comes into effect for everyday players like you or me. It's more for the bicycle helmet special folks.


I'm lost, mostly.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

1SweetRide said:


> I'm lost, mostly.


Ya. It's not easy to get your head around. Just get the basics of the Major/minor scales, Pentatonics, and triads and their relationships to one another and you'll be well ahead of the average curve.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

If I was at a jam and I'm calling out the chords, it would depend on what the prior chord is.
eg;
If going up the neck, you're on G. I'll call A#.
Going down, you're on C. I'll call B♭.
Works for me.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Dorian2 said:


> Ya. It's not easy to get your head around. Just get the basics of the Major/minor scales, Pentatonics, and triads and their relationships to one another and you'll be well ahead of the average curve.


I mostly have that. Now working on learning the circle of fifths. Just found out that power chords played on the low E and A strings can give you the I-IV-V for any key in a very small box.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Hey, I did play a song on bass the other day with an E#.
the next note was F#.
Stuff happens.

But yeah--you should be able to notate it as whichever one makes sense for the key & the context


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

zontar said:


> Hey, I did play a song on bass the other day with an E#.
> the next note was F#.
> Stuff happens.
> 
> But yeah--you should be able to notate it as whichever one makes sense for the key & the context


How in the heck did you play an E#?


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

1SweetRide said:


> How in the heck did you play an E#?


F# Major Scale:

F# G# A# B C# D# E# F#

Six sharps in the key signature. Gb is an enharmonic key with F#, but you’re dealing with six flats instead.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Merlin said:


> F# Major Scale:
> 
> F# G# A# B C# D# E# F#
> 
> Six sharps in the key signature. Gb is an enharmonic key with F#, but you’re dealing with six flats instead.


I meant, how do you physically play a note that doesn't exist on a standard guitar's fretboard?


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

E#is an enharmonic of F

Fb is an enharmonic of E


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

1SweetRide said:


> I meant, how do you physically play a note that doesn't exist on a standard guitar's fretboard?


E# exists. A sharp sign, (#), raises the note a semitone, or one fret. So E# is a semitone above E. E# is a different name for F. As always, context matters, so as has been noted, in the key of Gb, the leading note of the scale is F. In the key of F#, the leading note is E#. 

In time, you'll learn to understand double # (x), and double flat (bb).


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)




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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

the song I was playing was in a minor key.
But the same ideas above apply.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

Merlin said:


> Much more likely that you’ll need that note in B, F# or C# Major and their relative minors.


Yes as @Merlin says. Rare to write on those keys tho. Bb is much closer to C major harmonically. This is why you rarely see A# or Gb in notation


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Our singer was showing us a new song she wrote. She was using a capo at the third fret playing Cm (Am shape). Then she went to an A# (G shape) chord. I started laughing. They couldn't figure out what was so funny.


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## Mark Barron (Mar 18, 2019)

It mostly depends on how the notes are laid out alphabetically. For example, the key of F major wouldn't make much sense if it went F, G, A, A#, C, D, E. Then we'd have two letter As and no Bs in our scale. So perhaps your music notation software is set to a less preferable key signature to what you're writing in?

On that note, there IS such a thing as B#, for the same reason as described above. To put it simply, let's say we had a scale that went A, B#, C#, D, E, F, G. It wouldn't make sense alphabetically to go A, C, C#, D, E, F, G. Of course, that scale sounds pretty bizarre and those cases are rare.


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