# The Astronomy/Space Thread



## Robert1950

I spend a hell of a lot more time reading articles and watching videos on astronomy and space than with the news. When I was in my 50s, I finally figured out I had a mild generalized type anxiety disorder that was set off by a number (but not too large a number) of specific situations. Had this confirmed by my doctor and a few counseling sessions. I have learned to avoid certain situations or have come to no longer care about some of those things that would set it off. The news was one of things that can still agitate me. So I only scan the headlines and read up on local news. I try to avoid politics like the plague - I swear that would put me in the hospital if I didn't. At my age, I have watch my blood pressure and avoid things that will send it into the red zone.

One way is follow news that I find fascinating and non-threatening. Anything to do with space exploration of the solar system to big bang and the origins of the universe is one of those things. Even though I spent my life working in social services, my original degree was in science and that has shaped the way I look at the world and beyond.

So the next post will start it all off....


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## Robert1950

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-39034050

7 Earth-like planets found orbiting star 39 light-years away


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## LexxM3

Speaking of politics, I think Pluto IS a planet. Is this post in the wrong forum?

And don't get me started on the elite "1%" planets we're all measured against (you know, Earth, Venus, Mars, Mercury). Particularly Mars with its "we had life first in the Sol system", boo hoo, fricking red snowflakes.



P.S. If humans are talking about it or thinking it, it's political.


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## dcole

LexxM3 said:


> P.S. If humans are talking about it or thinking it, it's political.


Boobs!


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## Budda

I am glad this thread was started!


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## LexxM3

Budda said:


> I am glad this thread was started!


Admit it, you're just a little more glad about the "Boobs!" part. Back to astronomy trolling ...

Dark Matter Doesn't Exist: The Man Who’s Trying to Kill Dark Matter. Myself, I believe in the emergent theory of gravity rather than Einsteinian, but Albert was a swell guy anyway.


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## dcole

LexxM3 said:


> Myself, I believe in the emergent theory of gravity rather than Einsteinian, but Albert was a swell guy anyway.


Cause he played guitar?


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## cheezyridr

ok, i want to add some things. 

1) anyone who likes space knows of this site, but just in case someone out there somehow still doesn't, this is a thing, and it's awesome. i have used them to make wallpaper for my desktop countless times.

Astronomy Picture of the Day Archive

2) he's playing a peavey razor. a rather unexpected choice from ol' al


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## greco

Robert1950 said:


> ....Anything to do with space exploration of the solar system to *big band* ......


Typo...I assume??


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## Kerry Brown

Albert played violin and piano but that picture is not him. It is pretty cool though.

FALSE: Einstein Plays Electric Guitar


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## dcole

Robert1950 said:


> I spend a hell of a lot more time reading articles and watching videos on astronomy and space than with the news. When I was in my 50s, I finally figured out I had a mild generalized type anxiety disorder that was set off by a number (but not too large a number) of specific situations. Had this confirmed by my doctor and a few counseling sessions. I have learned to avoid certain situations or have come to no longer care about some of those things that would set it off. The news was one of things that can still agitate me. So I only scan the headlines and read up on local news. I try to avoid politics like the plague - I swear that would put me in the hospital if I didn't. At my age, I have watch my blood pressure and avoid things that will send it into the red zone.


Sorry Robert for derailing your thread. Somehow I missed your initial post and the seriousness of its nature. I also find the news agitating as it seems to focus on American politics and happenings way more then it should, especially when thinking what local stations should focus on, local news.


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## LexxM3

To be clear, I meant no disrespect to @Robert1950. But making fun of political idiocy is a rather fantastic way to deal with its resultant stress. And astronomy.


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## LexxM3

And on the Pluto thing, our side is building momentum: Will Pluto Get Its Planethood Back?


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## Robert1950

Photobucket blackmail,... I'll have move this.


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## High/Deaf

I find the things they are discovering amazing. More and more detail, proof of what was only speculated 20 years ago. Hell, just putting glasses on Hubble. There's some damn smart people out there (and yet, Trump is president - sorry just had to throw in politics LOL).




LexxM3 said:


> Dark Matter Doesn't Exist: The Man Who’s Trying to Kill Dark Matter.












Pawned!


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## zontar

To be serious & on topic again--Astronomy can be fun & interesting.
I remember years ago watching two similar documentaries about the solar system.
I forget the names & who did them--but one was boring & typical just listing info.
The other one did something I like --they at least gave a general explanation of how they discovered what they were saying (What each planet was made of, mass, etc.)
they explained about how the signals bounced back & the light in the images gave that info--I mean they could have made that up, but I liked that they gave some reason for it.
I always wondered how they knew those things--like what the atmosphere on a planet was made of if we've never been there.

if it's conjecture--say why. 
if it's widely held info--say why.
if you're proposing something new--say why.


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## Alex

Interesting discovery that was made public yesterday

Subscribe to read

I read about a year ago, that astronomers had intercepted radio waves that were not "natural" and mechanical by nature. They could not come up with an explanation and the files were transferred to an organization that searches for other life forms in the universe.

Cosmos magazine (via email) is a good source for free and is funded by donations or subscriptions. They take complex subjects and explain them in laymen's terms.


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## Kerry Brown

I am lucky to live in a town with a small private non-profit university, Quest, The president for a number of year was David Helfand. He is also the chair of the Astronomy Department at Columbia University. He would sometimes give public lectures at the local library. One of the most interesting events I've ever attended was a lecture he gave about how they find planets in other solar systems. He could take a very technical subject and make it fun and easy to understand for people who knew nothing about the subject.

David Helfand - Wikipedia


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## capnjim




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## LexxM3

Kerry's note was a good reminder. For those near Kitchener-Waterloo (also webcast and broadcast, but being there is best), Perimeter Institute has always had a public lecture series and it is always fantastic! The people are real, doing extremely cool science, and the approach is super accessible (obPol: not Trump-accessible, but pretty much anyone above that intellect):

PUBLIC LECTURE SERIES | Perimeter Institute


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## Robert1950

NASA news report on the Trappist-1 system - 38 min.


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## High/Deaf

A bass player I jam with has a nice reflecting telescope with the base that tracks things and all that. I still remember the first time I saw Saturn for real and not just a picture of Saturn. It was a bit of a mind-blowing experience. 

When I have questions about 'why does this do that', he's my go-to guy. He is very into it and very knowledgeable. Notice I said bass player, because that's the role he serves most often, but he's also a good guitar player and one of the few I know that plays chromatic harp really well. He just kills at blues harp.


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## sorbz62

Kerry Brown said:


> Albert played violin and piano but that picture is not him. It is pretty cool though.
> 
> FALSE: Einstein Plays Electric Guitar


REALLY??!!! You don't say!


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## Steadfastly

Robert1950 said:


> NASA news report on the Trappist-1 system - 38 min.


The words that stand out here as in many of these other finds is "potentially" and "39 light years" away. We'd be dead a few times before we even got started going there.

This is what turns me off about the media. Rather than portray it as a very interesting find, they have to try to find some way to "hype" it.


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## High/Deaf

Steadfastly said:


> The words that stand out here as in many of these other finds is "potentially" and "39 light years" away. We'd be dead a few times before we even got started going there.


Maybe only because of our current incomplete understanding of time/space.

At one time, people who rode horses thought if you went as fast as a train, you wouldn't be able to breathe. They were wrong.
At one time, people thought you couldn't go over Mach 1 (speed of sound). Turns out they were wrong, too.

Perhaps we are wrong regarding the impossibility of going faster than c? Quantum mechanics is questioning this with how some particles interact, apparently faster than c. We are far from a complete understanding of how things work.


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## Steadfastly

High/Deaf said:


> Maybe only because of our current incomplete understanding of time/space.
> 
> At one time, people who rode horses thought if you went as fast as a train, you wouldn't be able to breathe. They were wrong.
> At one time, people thought you couldn't go over Mach 1 (speed of sound). Turns out they were wrong, too.
> 
> Perhaps we are wrong regarding the impossibility of going faster than c? Quantum mechanics is questioning this with how some particles interact, apparently faster than c. *We are far from a complete understanding of how things work.*


Well, I will agree with you on that and add a few "fars".


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## Robert1950

Steadfastly said:


> This is what turns me off about the media. Rather than portray it as a very interesting find, they have to try to find some way to "hype" it.


It doesn't turn me off at all. I don't see this as hype at all. The fact that they found this system is fascinating. So what if it takes another 20 to 100 years or more to develop the remote exploration technology to investigate this and find answers. It is the initial discovery that *drives *human beings on to find out the answers to questions about the universe. It's only been 113 years since the Wright brothers first flight of 37 metres and 12 seconds. It took 100 years to develop the technology to confirm the existence of gravity waves predicted in Einstein's General Theory of Relativity. It has only been 25 years since the discovery of the first exoplanet. It may take 5000 years or more to to where we can send an unmanned exploration probe to that system, let alone manned. We need to keep discovering - it is what drives us.


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## Robert1950

News on the 7 planets, Ceres and SpaceX in 5.5 minutes.






Corrected due to posting error by SciShow.


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## Steadfastly

Robert1950 said:


> It doesn't turn me off at all. *I don't see this as hype at all. * The fact that they found this system is fascinating. So what if it takes another 20 to 100 years or more to develop the remote exploration technology to investigate this and find answers. It is the initial discovery that *drives *human beings on to find out the answers to questions about the universe. It's only been 113 years since the Wright brothers first flight of 37 metres and 12 seconds. It took 100 years to develop the technology to confirm the existence of gravity waves predicted in Einstein's General Theory of Relativity. It has only been 25 years since the discovery of the first exoplanet. It may take 5000 years or more to to where we can send an unmanned exploration probe to that system, let alone manned. We need to keep discovering - it is what drives us.


Yes, Robert, it's hype. You surely know how far 39 light years is. How much fuel would that take and what kind of machinery to last that long? 

Everyone is vying for attention these days to make sure that they keep their funding (keep their jobs, in reality) or increase it. If they can make it look a bit more interesting by adding words like "potentially" that they won't have to answer for (they'll all be dead by that time anyway), then they liberally use them and feed them to the media and the general population.


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## Robert1950

Steadfastly said:


> Yes, Robert, it's hype. You surely know how far 39 light years is. How much fuel would that take and what kind of machinery to last that long?
> 
> Everyone is vying for attention these days to make sure that they keep their funding (keep their jobs, in reality) or increase it. If they can make it look a bit more interesting by adding words like "potentially" that they won't have to answer for (they'll all be dead by that time anyway), then they liberally use them and feed them to the media and the general population.


You have your opinion and I have mine, and I don't agree with yours.


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## Steadfastly

Robert1950 said:


> You have your opinion and I have mine, and I don't agree with yours.


Well, I knew that. Those that are trying to keep their huge budgets wouldn't agree with me either.

Don't get me wrong, it is very interesting. Just cut out the crap and give us the details.


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## Robert1950

Bob McDonald, science journalist with the CBC (Quirks and Quarks) on the Challenges of Finding Life on Exoplanets...

Finding life on 7 exoplanets will be a challenge: Bob McDonald


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## Lincoln

I was watching a YouTube last week about how our galaxy (the milky way) and the closest spiral galaxy to us (Andromeda) are actually moving towards each other and will collide "in the future". They will Pass right through each other and then possibly combine to form one large elliptical galaxy. All without injury to our solar system. So if there is still life on earth by that time....it will survive.  

Timeline for all this?? about 3.75 Billion years


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## TheYanChamp

Steadfastly said:


> Well, I knew that. Those that are trying to keep their huge budgets wouldn't agree with me either.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, it is very interesting. Just cut out the crap and give us the details.



You would be surprised how frugal these projects are on a grand scheme. For instance the Large Hardon Collider (see what I did there) cost around 13 billion to research and build over dozens of countries. This included a major repair and shut down for a few years that really set them back.

We couldn't even host an Olympics and build a bridge in BC for that. We can't even build a 40km train line through Calgary for half that, and that doesn't involve thousands of scientists, research, and tunneling a 27 km round tunnel at 50-150 feet deep.


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## Robert1950

My last post on the 7 planets found orbiting Trappist-1 for the time being. This guy is an astronomer.


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## Steadfastly

TheYanChamp said:


> You would be surprised how frugal these projects are on a grand scheme. For instance the Large Hardon Collider (see what I did there) cost around* 13 billion to research and build* over dozens of countries. This included a major repair and shut down for a few years that really set them back.
> 
> We couldn't even host an Olympics and build a bridge in BC for that. We can't even build a 40km train line through Calgary for half that, and that doesn't involve thousands of scientists, research, and tunneling a 27 km round tunnel at 50-150 feet deep.


I could take care of quite a few homeless people and battered mothers with that amount of money.


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## Robert1950

Steadfastly said:


> I could take care of quite a few homeless people and battered mothers with that amount of money.


I originally posted this thread to hopefully avoid any talk about dumb-ass political issues. I worked for 30 years in social services with a non-profit agency with people with disabilities living below the poverty level. I had clients who lived on street at times and ones who had been assaulted. I have seen this sh*t up close up and the difficulties in dealing with it. I know chronic under-funding is a big problem here, as is inadequate charitable donations. But such simple-minded and dismissive statements towards science research and investigation really irk me. Progress in both the humanitarian front and in scientific discovery are needed for the human race to move forward. You can't do it without one or the the other. I will keep my focus on what this thread was intended,... finding about the wonderful things about the planet, the solar system and beyond. I will now ignore any posts to the contrary.


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## Steadfastly

Robert1950 said:


> I originally posted this thread to hopefully avoid any talk about dumb-ass political issues. I worked for 30 years in social services with a non-profit agency with people with disabilities living below the poverty level. I had clients who lived on street at times and ones who had been assaulted. I have seen this sh*t up close up and the difficulties in dealing with it. I know chronic under-funding is a big problem here, as is inadequate charitable donations. But such simple-minded and dismissive statements towards science research and investigation really irk me. *Progress in both the humanitarian front and in scientific discovery are needed for the human race to move forward.* You can't do it without one or the the other. I will keep my focus on what this thread was intended,... finding about the wonderful things about the planet, the solar system and beyond. I will now ignore any posts to the contrary.


Being an open forum, I had the understanding that all posts could be posted in a thread. 

As for the human race moving forward and the world full of science these days and the world in the biggest mess in its history, science doesn't seem to be having much success. 

As for space exploration, it is now becoming unsafe for astronauts to do space walks because of the space junk floating around up there. I am quite sure, as it is here on earth, that it is cause by scientific discovery. 

So as exciting and sometimes beneficial, science has caused us many problems that we as of yet, have no answer. (i.e. nuclear bombs and energy and plastics).


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## Lincoln

I think it's fascinating stuff


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## Steadfastly

Lincoln said:


> I think it's fascinating stuff


Fascinating, mesmerizing, stunningly beautiful and incomprehensibly complex.


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## zontar

er, a Trappist...


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## Electraglide

Kerry Brown said:


> I am lucky to live in a town with a small private non-profit university, Quest, The president for a number of year was David Helfand. He is also the chair of the Astronomy Department at Columbia University. He would sometimes give public lectures at the local library. One of the most interesting events I've ever attended was a lecture he gave about how they find planets in other solar systems. He could take a very technical subject and make it fun and easy to understand for people who knew nothing about the subject.
> 
> David Helfand - Wikipedia


They have a small university now? How things have changed.


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## Kerry Brown

Electraglide said:


> They have a small university now? How things have changed.


Quest University Canada

They have around 700 students.


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## bw66

Went to a star gazing party last night. It was overcast, but they still had a really good presentation. They talked about the newly discovered exoplanets and how much scientists will be able to figure out with all of the new technology in telescopes. Things like whether they have atmospheres or water. As I understand it, there will be new equipment launched in the next few years that will drastically improve out ability to observe the universe around us.


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## Robert1950

The James Webb space. telescope is due to launch in 19 months. This 12 minute video Illustrate just how massively complex it is to launch it, get it into an L2 orbit, deploy it and get it operating. It will hopefully build on the incredibly successful Hubble space telescope. When they first put the Hubble in orbit, it was near-sighted. They need a shuttle mission to correct it. The Webb will be 1.6m km away - no second chances here. Got to get it right the first time.


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## Robert1950

This 38 minute documentary tells the history and the story behind the building of the James Webb space telescope and wat they hope to discover with it.






Who is James E. Webb??? - James E. Webb - Wikipedia


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## Robert1950

The old evil double post. The devil made me do it!


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## TheYanChamp

Steadfastly said:


> science doesn't seem to be having much success.





Steadfastly said:


> Fascinating, mesmerizing, stunningly beautiful and incomprehensibly complex.


Im happy you've made an about face.


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## Steadfastly

TheYanChamp said:


> Im happy you've made an about face.


Not at all. Only an idiot would think that out beautiful universe is anything but spectacular beyond comprehension. However, the money spent on space and the junk that we have put up there, endangering lives is another story.


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## High/Deaf

Steadfastly said:


> Not at all. Only an idiot would think that out beautiful universe is anything but spectacular beyond comprehension. However, the money spent on space and the junk that we have put up there, endangering lives is another story.


I'm glad most people don't lack the vision you do, or we'd still be grunting at each other and starting fires by rubbing sticks together.

As @Robert1950 said, how's about we STFU about the politics of it and just enjoy the spectacle, K?


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## Lincoln

Robert1950 said:


> This 38 minute documentary tells the history and the story behind the building of the James Webb space telescope and wat they hope to discover with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who is James E. Webb??? - James E. Webb - Wikipedia


I remember when they built the first space telescope (Hubble) and got it up there, it was out of focus. Engineers forgot that the mirror would change slightly when it was no longer under the influence of gravity. They had to make it a "corrective lens" (like a pair of glasses). 

But once they got it fixed.......wow.......it changed everything we knew about astronomy at the time.


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## High/Deaf

Nova did a show on the 'operation'. Like all things Nova, it was great.


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## Jamdog

dcole said:


> Cause he played guitar?


That a black Peavy razor?


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## Steadfastly

High/Deaf said:


> I'm glad most people don't lack the vision you do, or *we'd still be grunting at each other and starting fires by rubbing sticks together.*
> 
> As @Robert1950 said, how's about we STFU about the politics of it and just enjoy the spectacle, K?


H/D, if you believe that, I think you've been watching a few too many movies and reading some awful literature.

So do you think the billions of dollars spent on space projects were better spent there than on feeding the hungry and saving kids lives? Have you any idea how many lives could be saved and improved with trillions of dollars?


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## Robert1950

The United States 2016 budget for NASA was $19.3B, Education (not university or college) was $70.7B, Military spending was $521.7. The total US spending for Medicaid $646B and Welfare at all levels was $481B. It makes me wonder what the spending is for the CIA, FBI and NSA. 

NASA spending is not even a *drop in the bucket* compared to other spending. They could easily move the NASA budget equivalent from the Military budget and give it state and local non profit agencies that help the abused and homeless with no noticeable effect the military. Hell, they could even move the same amount to Education too.

So before anyone goes around making flippant and visionless comments about the cost of NASA's science and discovery and what else you can do with it, take a few minutes and brain cells and do some research and put it into a broader context.


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## Steadfastly

Robert1950 said:


> The United States 2016 budget for NASA was $19.3B, Education (not university or college) was $70.7B, Military spending was $521.7. The total US spending for Medicaid $646B and Welfare at all levels was $481B. It makes me wonder what the spending is for the CIA, FBI and NSA.
> 
> NASA spending is not even a *drop in the bucket* compared to other spending. They could easily move the NASA budget equivalent from the Military budget and give it state and local non profit agencies that help the abused and homeless with no noticeable effect the military. Hell, they could even move the same amount to Education too.
> 
> So before anyone goes around making flippant and visionless comments about the cost of NASA's science and discovery and what else you can do with it, take a few minutes and brain cells and do some research and put it into a broader context.





Steadfastly said:


> So do you think _*the billions of dollars spent on space projects*_ were better spent there than on feeding the hungry and saving kids lives?


NASA's budget for 2016 was over $17 billion. That is only the USA and that is only for one year.


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## Guest

How much of your possessions have you sold and donated to your cause so far?


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## Steadfastly

laristotle said:


> How much of your possessions have you sold and donated to your cause so far?


I don't want to blow my own horn but let's just say it is way above what I have spent on musical equipment and other hobbies I have.

So let me ask you a question. What is more important, people or space exploration? People, or the things that are important to you?


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## Guest

Life in general.


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## Steadfastly

laristotle said:


> Life in general.


You are skirting a direct question but if you don't want to answer, it's entirely up to you. The answer you gave shows where your heart is.


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## Lincoln

I think maybe that whole space program thing for the USA comes down to boosting national pride. Probably money well spent if you look at it along those lines.


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## Robert1950

I'll believe this when it happens: SpaceX to fly 2 people around the moon by next year. Private Sector...

SpaceX to fly 2 people around the moon by next year


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## Lincoln

what do you get for the person who has everything? A trip to the moon!!


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## Guest

Steadfastly said:


> What is more important, people or space exploration? People, or the things that are important to you?


I share the sentiments in this article.

Top 5 Reasons why Space Exploration is Important for the World

a snippet
_
I hear many people decry the importance of NASA and space flight. Most saying that it is a waste of time, 
and more importantly money. I disagree with such assessments. I often wonder if people threw out the same 
criticisms of our European ancestors, who dared to explore on wooden ships to discover “the new world.”_


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## vadsy

No doubt, direct or indirect, Nasa science has benefited us and improved quality of life. Some may not even know it and live better but slam the whole thing anyway. I find it frustrating that science is evil but letting people die by forbidding blood transfusions is completely ok. Disturbing.


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## vadsy

Steadfastly said:


> You are skirting a direct question but if you don't want to answer, it's entirely up to you. The answer you gave shows where your heart is.


The judgement is strong with you.



Steadfastly said:


> I don't want to blow my own horn but let's just say it is way above what I have spent on musical equipment and other hobbies I have.


How sure are you all your money isn't being spent on the new billion dollar printing plant in Warwick? 1.6 million square feet on 45 acres in upstate New York can't be cheap.


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## High/Deaf

Steadfastly said:


> H/D, if you believe thlieat, I think you've been watching a few too many movies and reading some awful literature.
> 
> So do you think the billions of dollars spent on space projects were better spent there than on feeding the hungry and saving kids lives? Have you any idea how many lives could be saved and improved with trillions of dollars?


And if you believe that, you watch too much TV on Sunday mornings.

It's about a lot more than space exploration, it's about progress of the species. You are against it, you want to live in Job's time. Like most things, you can't spend enough time telling us how perfect you are and how flawed we are. Wow, welcome to organized religion, eh?


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## dmc69

This thread started out cool enough. Then a caveman entered.

Sorry man, the stuff you're talking about makes zero sense. To dumb down what you're trying to say, let's equate society and people to a car company. Nasa is like the R&D department. You want Toyota to shut down the R&D department to solely focus on repairs for their current models. Best business decision ever, said no one EVER.


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## Guitar101

Steadfastly said:


> So do you think the billions of dollars spent on space projects were better spent there than on feeding the hungry and saving kids lives? Have you any idea how many lives could be saved and improved with trillions of dollars?


Your missing the big picture here Steadly. Yes feeding the hungry and saving kids lives is important but so is space exploration. When we've ruined this planet and need to find another one, Mars would be our best choice to start over and try again. Problem with Mars is it's too cold so plants will not grow. Because plants will not grow, they cannot produce the oxygen that we need to survive. Here's the big picture. We've become good here on Earth creating global warming which will play a big part in destroying this planet but what we've learned here will be beneficial in warming Mars which will in turn grow plants, create oxygen and possibly save humanity. Space exploration will get us there and what killed us could eventually save us.


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## Budda

Skip the global warming and whatnot - Space exploration requires the brightest minds to solve problems inherent to space travel. They figure out solutions that get used here on Earth as a direct result of working on space exploration.

You have to know how to keep a human alive through intense acceleration and in zero-gravity for prolonged periods of time - you don't think that has an effect on our medical knowledge?

Back to the thread at hand, here's today's pic from APOD:


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## Steadfastly

Guitar101 said:


> Your missing the big picture here Steadly. Yes feeding the hungry and saving kids lives is important but so is space exploration. When we've ruined this planet and need to find another one, Mars would be our best choice to start over and try again. Problem with Mars is it's too cold so plants will not grow. Because plants will not grow, they cannot produce the oxygen that we need to survive. Here's the big picture. We've become good here on Earth creating global warming which will play a big part in destroying this planet but what we've learned here will be beneficial in warming Mars which will in turn grow plants, create oxygen and possibly save humanity. Space exploration will get us there and what killed us could eventually save us.


That is a pipe dream. At the rate we are ruining our planet and IF there was another planet we could live on and the time and material it would take to get us there is an impossibility. Ask yourself how many spacecrafts would be required to move 8 billion people light years away to some other planet? How much oxygen, fuel, food, water, etc, etc, would be required to made the journey? Not one man has even made it as far as Mars yet. It is simply impossible and there has been no other planet found.


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## Steadfastly

High/Deaf said:


> And if you believe that, you watch too much TV on Sunday mornings.
> 
> It's about a lot more than space exploration, it's about progress of the species. You are against it, you want to live in Job's time. Like most things, you can't spend enough time telling us how perfect you are and how flawed we are. Wow, welcome to organized religion, eh?


Did I mention religion? No, I didn't. 

What I did say is time, money and resources are being spent where they could be used to have a real impact on people in very, very dire circumstances. While space exploration is exciting and the pictures we see are utterly beautiful and amazing, they do nothing to clothe, feed or house the billions of people that desperately need help just living day to day. Shouldn't that be the priority or do you think these poor people should come second, third or worse? Isn't love for human kind more important than spending billions of dollars every year on something that uses up our resources instead of using it to help others, others who are starving, have no home, have no medical supplies? Don't you care about the plight of these billions of people at all?


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## High/Deaf

You don't have to mention religion, it is inherent in your conversation. 

Why not take that talk here https://guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/god.123393/ and leave the space discussion to those interested in that?


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## J-75

Robert1950 said:


> News on the 7 planets, Ceres and SpaceX in 5.5 minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Corrected due to posting error by SciShow.


I have trouble conceptualizing expressions like "possible ocean under its surface".
Does gravity not work everywhere? Bedrock does not usually float to the surface around these parts, at least.


----------



## Steadfastly

High/Deaf said:


> You don't have to mention religion, it is inherent in your conversation.
> 
> Why not take that talk here https://guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/god.123393/ and leave the space discussion to those interested in that?


Oh, I am interested in it. I have a number of the Hubble pics on my computer; I love star gazing and reading about our universe and have a few books in my home library about it. 

I am just surprised that you won't answer the question directly on what should be the most important, people or space. I find that almost unbelievable but have seen that before.


----------



## High/Deaf

Steadfastly said:


> I am just surprised that you won't answer the question directly on what should be the most important, people or space. I find that almost unbelievable but have seen that before.


Ask the question in the appropriate string and I will answer it. Other than that, I'm done with your misappropriation of this string. Fill yer boots, to no one's amusement.


----------



## Guest

Steadfastly said:


> .. what should be the most important, people or space.


In regards to _this_ thread, space.


----------



## Robert1950

J-75 said:


> I have trouble conceptualizing expressions like "possible ocean under its surface".
> Does gravity not work everywhere? Bedrock does not usually float to the surface around these parts, at least.


I know that earth has a number of small underground lakes and seas. Geologic underground activity and erosion results in fissures and caves in the planets. Water will seep down to collect there over time. Some of these openings may be large enough to call an ocean maybe.


----------



## High/Deaf

laristotle said:


> In regards to _this_ thread, space.


Yes. And we couldn't have people without first having space. There isn't even a chicken-or-egg argument there.


----------



## J-75

Steadfastly said:


> H/D, if you believe that, I think you've been watching a few too many movies and reading some awful literature.
> 
> So do you think the billions of dollars spent on space projects were better spent there than on feeding the hungry and saving kids lives? Have you any idea how many lives could be saved and improved with trillions of dollars?


This planet has no problem_ making_ people - It's _where to put them_ that is becoming an issue. Stay focused before you condemn space exploration.


----------



## J-75

Robert1950 said:


> I know that earth has a number of small underground lakes and seas. Geologic underground activity and erosion results in fissures and caves in the planets. Water will seep down to collect there over time. Some of these openings may be large enough to call an ocean maybe.


If that were the case, engineers would love to know what the support consist of.


----------



## High/Deaf

J-75 said:


> If that were the case, engineers would love to know what the support consist of.


Like the caramel in a Caramilk bar, we'll never know.............


----------



## LexxM3

I think it has kind of been answered, but while I hate false dualities in arguments ...



Steadfastly said:


> I am just surprised that you won't answer the question directly on what should be the most important, people or space.


From the point of view of humanity, space is infinitely more important than any individual. Taking all romance out of it, that is simply because Earth history has repeatedly shown that planet-bound species do not survive. 

From the point of view of an individual human, people are more important, but it's a moot argument without humanity.


----------



## keto

Steadly, you're ruining a very interesting thread. Pose your questions elsewhere, would you please?


----------



## Steadfastly

J-75 said:


> This planet has no problem_ making_ people - It's _where to put them_ that is becoming an issue. Stay focused before you condemn space exploration.


A study has been done showing the planet could easily house 25 billion people if managed properly using only 1/2 the planet with the other half devoted to other forms of life and uses. So the issue is not where to put them but managing the earth and its resources. Many have lots of land and others live in slums because of greed.


----------



## Robert1950

J-75 said:


> If that were the case, engineers would love to know what the support consist of.


I did take a geophysics course at university many, many,...many-many years ago. If I have time, and it isn't over my head, I wouldn't mind knowing myself. I assume it would in part have to do with different strata of rock, some being stronger and much less resistant to under ground water erosion and such thing and other tectonic forces.


----------



## High/Deaf

Yes, I believe the mix of flowing water and time can have unexpected consequences. I think it's called fluvial geomorphology, if you want a 25c word for it. LOL


----------



## Guitar101

Steadfastly said:


> A study has been done showing the planet could easily house 25 billion people if managed properly using only 1/2 the planet with the other half devoted to other forms of life and uses. So the issue is not where to put them but managing the earth and its resources. Many have lots of land and others live in slums because of greed.


How would you feed them? We and I say we because I run a farm can't feed the people that we have now. When big business farms take over, get ready for food prices to increase. It's already happening with cattle. Look at the price of beef.


----------



## Lincoln

Guitar101 said:


> How would you feed them? We and I say we because I run a farm can't feed the people that we have now. When big business farms take over, get ready for food prices to increase. It's already happening with cattle. Look at the price of beef.


family grain farms are already a thing of the past too. All the good farm land around here either belongs to the Hutterites, or farming corporations from Holland & Germany. Kids don't want to farm, so when the parents pass on, the land gets sold off.


----------



## Guest

Or golf courses. There's a dozen ~15 minutes drive from me. All former farms.


----------



## vadsy

Lincoln said:


> .......or farming corporations from Holland & Germany.


Seriously? That's nuts. Wouldn't think we've lost our way in the heart of the prairies.




Steadfastly said:


> A study has been done showing the planet could easily house 25 billion people if managed properly using only 1/2 the planet with the other half devoted to other forms of life and uses. So the issue is not where to put them but managing the earth and its resources. Many have lots of land and others live in slums because of greed.


You constantly mention studies or facts but never cite the sources,...you gotta do better than that.


----------



## bw66

laristotle said:


> Or golf courses. There's a dozen ~15 minutes drive from me. All former farms.


Same here - all poisoned with herbicides.


----------



## Steadfastly

Guitar101 said:


> How would you feed them? We and I say we because I run a farm can't feed the people that we have now. When big business farms take over, get ready for food prices to increase. It's already happening with cattle. Look at the price of beef.


We know there is a lot of ground just lying fallow and yes, some, has been severely affected negatively by man's greed. At the moment there is not a problem of feeding everyone. The problem is distribution. Greed and commercialization again right? We can't even get the food that is grown to people that need it and scientists are saying we can get to another planet? Those guys are insulting our intelligence.


----------



## bw66

Steadfastly said:


> ... scientists are saying we can get to another planet? Those guys are insulting our intelligence.


I've not heard any scientists say that we can get to another planet, except for perhaps Mars and at this point, even that would be a one-way trip should it become possible at all. Your beef is with the media, who seem to prefer science fiction to actual science. Lots of ways to explore space without sending people there.


----------



## TheYanChamp

Budda said:


> Skip the global warming and whatnot - Space exploration requires the brightest minds to solve problems inherent to space travel. They figure out solutions that get used here on Earth as a direct result of working on space exploration.
> 
> You have to know how to keep a human alive through intense acceleration and in zero-gravity for prolonged periods of time - you don't think that has an effect on our medical knowledge?
> 
> Back to the thread at hand, here's today's pic from APOD:


Thats a disgusting asshole...


----------



## TheYanChamp

Steadfastly said:


> We know there is a lot of ground just lying fallow and yes, some, has been severely affected negatively by man's greed. At the moment there is not a problem of feeding everyone. The problem is distribution. Greed and commercialization again right? We can't even get the food that is grown to people that need it and scientists are saying we can get to another planet? Those guys are insulting our intelligence.


Im feeling sorry for you. Maybe we can relax and post crap related to astrophysics for people that care about it. If you want to sell all your crap and put it to the less fortunate, 200 bucks a year will feed a village in Malawi for a year. I doubt you're doing that. Again, if you don't agree with OUR spending (not the USA or NATO), write your MP and make shit change. If not, STFU and let the thread progress. 


Enough said.


----------



## TheYanChamp

There are multiple infinities...........................................................






Short clip of it.






If you haven't watched Joe Rogan podcasts, check it out if you have the time.


----------



## Steadfastly

bw66 said:


> I've not heard any scientists say that we can get to another planet, except for perhaps Mars and at this point, even that would be a one-way trip should it become possible at all. Your beef is with the media, who seem to prefer science fiction to actual science. Lots of ways to explore space without sending people there.


They may not have said it but it has been very strongly asserted many times, as it has here in this thread. 

Also, it is not just the media spouting these things. They often quote what the scientists and astrologers themselves have said.


----------



## zontar

Steadfastly said:


> So do you think the billions of dollars spent on space projects were better spent there than on feeding the hungry and saving kids lives? Have you any idea how many lives could be saved and improved with trillions of dollars?


Whether you agree or disagree with spending that money on space or on people--I forget the name of the documentary--but it was about the Apollo missions--it mentioned that during the years of the Apollo moon landing missions-people in the US spent more money on cosmetics than what the moon landings cost.

I'd like to see sources for that--but it does say something about how we spend money.


----------



## Steadfastly

zontar said:


> Whether you agree or disagree with spending that money on space or on people--I forget the name of the documentary--but it was about the Apollo missions--it mentioned that during the years of the Apollo moon landing missions-people in the US spent more money on cosmetics than what the moon landings cost.
> 
> I'd like to see sources for that--but it does say something about how we spend money.


So true. When my wife buys cosmetics and the odd time I happen to know how much just a few items cost, I can't believe what they charge. It's big business. There are many things that we see money spent on things by governments, companies, other individuals and ourselves that could be spent to help others less fortunate than ourselves. 

I know this kind of thing will continue as governments try to answer and satisfy different groups of people, including themselves. What I am merely pointing out is the spending and effort far outweigh the the benefits. We have learned a lot about our universe and even our planet but the question is, are we truly better off or not?


----------



## Guest

I vote better off.


----------



## TheYanChamp

Wtf. We are talking cosmetics in an astrophysics thread. Please stop being political and post cool shit.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## TheYanChamp

Also, google the budget vs gdp for nasa durring the apollo missions and now. 

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Robert1950

Here is a short on the landing of the Huygens space probe on Saturn's moon Titan 12 years ago. Contains real imagery sped up in time lapse video. It actually took a lot longer to land.


----------



## Robert1950

Landing space craft 101


----------



## zontar

TheYanChamp said:


> Wtf. We are talking cosmetics in an astrophysics thread. Please stop being political and post cool shit.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


No political comment--just mentioning that people spend all sorts of money on all sorts of stuff--including space.


----------



## Steadfastly

laristotle said:


> I vote better off.


Perhaps that is because you have a roof over your head, stead income, food in your house and a relatively decent standard of life. If you lived in some other parts of Canada that were not so well off or Pakistan, Syra, Libya, etc., you might feel quite differently.


----------



## High/Deaf

I'm really enjoying the post that are *on point* in this string. But the signal to noise ratio is still very high. That's too bad.


----------



## keto

I seriously wish I had a banhammer, Steadly. Quit polluting this thread, as numerous have asked.


----------



## Steadfastly

keto said:


> I seriously wish I had a banhammer, Steadly. Quit polluting this thread, as numerous have asked.


I am only answering the posts that have been directed toward me. Go back and look for yourself. You could ask them to stop replying to my posts. Have you don't that?

If members reply and ask questions then I will reply if I feel like it. And if you don't want to read my posts, then skip them. Regards, Steadfastly.


----------



## allthumbs56

It's in our nature to explore. I watch documentaries on Lewis and Clark and the others who left their homes for years on end to map out new worlds. I'm sure at the time people were asking what the point was and how it helped someone in a London poorhouse.

In in the end it does help - I don't think that can be argued. We need to boldly go where no man has gone before.

It fascinates me to no end.


----------



## Robert1950

"allthumbs56 said:


> We need to boldly go where no _one_ has gone before. It fascinates me to no end.


That pretty well nails it for me.


----------



## allthumbs56

Robert1950 said:


> "allthumbs56 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We need to boldly go where no _one_ has gone before. It fascinates me to no end.
> 
> 
> 
> That pretty well nails it for me.
Click to expand...

I chose to honour the original quote rather than the PC'd one 

Always figured the Vulcans would lodge a complaint long before the Earth Females did - just cause they had no sense of humour


----------



## Steadfastly

allthumbs56 said:


> It's in our nature to explore.
> 
> It *fascinates* me to no end.



When you see some of the pictures coming back from space they are incredibly beautiful and definitely fascinating. That is indisputable.


----------



## Guest

Steadfastly said:


> You could ask them to stop replying to my posts.


Noted.


----------



## Robert1950

A slightly bigger sister to the Milky Way Galaxy... Nice photo.

Giant telescope in Chile captures image of galaxy NGC 1055


----------



## High/Deaf

allthumbs56 said:


> It's in our nature to explore. I watch documentaries on Lewis and Clark and the others who left their homes for years on end to map out new worlds. I'm sure at the time people were asking what the point was and how it helped someone in a London poorhouse.
> 
> In in the end it does help - I don't think that can be argued. We need to boldly go where no man has gone before.
> 
> It fascinates me to no end.


Slight sidetrack, but if you like inner space exploration, the story of the first people to traverse Australia south to north is a good one, too. Burke and Wills. There's a movie, if you can find it.

Burke & Wills (1985) - IMDb

And now back to our regular scheduled program.


----------



## Guitar101

Looks like we, as in Earthlings, have to name the 7 planets in the recently discovered Solar System. Someone suggested using the names of the 7 dwarfs. Can we do better?


----------



## Guitar101

Steadfastly said:


> That is a pipe dream. At the rate we are ruining our planet and IF there was another planet we could live on and the time and material it would take to get us there is an impossibility. Ask yourself how many spacecrafts would be required to move 8 billion people light years away to some other planet? How much oxygen, fuel, food, water, etc, etc, would be required to made the journey? Not one man has even made it as far as Mars yet. It is simply impossible and there has been no other planet found.


Hey Steadly. I never said we would move all 8 billion people to our new planet. Only a few will be selected and with your attitude, you probably won't be on the list.^)@#


----------



## Guest

Maybe the 'B' ark?


----------



## High/Deaf

Guitar101 said:


> Looks like we, as in Earthlings, have to name the 7 planets in the recently discovered Solar System. Someone suggested using the names of the 7 dwarfs. Can we do better?


How about the 7 deadly sins? I'd love being able to refer to Lust aligning with Envy.


----------



## zontar

Guitar101 said:


> Hey Steadly. I never said we would move all 8 billion people to our new planet. Only a few will be selected and with your attitude, you probably won't be on the list.^)@#





laristotle said:


> Maybe the 'B' ark?


That's what I was thinking...


----------



## Robert1950

Updates on a few space news items...


----------



## Robert1950

Yes science can have a sense of humour. Star Talk on the Mars Curiosity Rover from 4 years ago...


----------



## LexxM3

Mmmmm, Jupiter ...










How to Bake Scientifically Accurate Cake Planets


----------



## Robert1950

Space New Update: Europa, Moon Orbital Space Station, Webb Telescope and Trappist-1


----------



## Electraglide

Robert1950 said:


> The United States 2016 budget for NASA was $19.3B, Education (not university or college) was $70.7B, Military spending was $521.7. The total US spending for Medicaid $646B and Welfare at all levels was $481B. It makes me wonder what the spending is for the CIA, FBI and NSA.
> 
> NASA spending is not even a *drop in the bucket* compared to other spending. They could easily move the NASA budget equivalent from the Military budget and give it state and local non profit agencies that help the abused and homeless with no noticeable effect the military. Hell, they could even move the same amount to Education too.
> 
> So before anyone goes around making flippant and visionless comments about the cost of NASA's science and discovery and what else you can do with it, take a few minutes and brain cells and do some research and put it into a broader context.


On top of that, if they stopped space exploration etc. around the world, think of all the jobs lost and all the people on welfare and the like if the country where they live has welfare.


----------



## BGood

I misread the title, thought it had to do with space cadets that believe in astrology.

BTW, this is pretty good Photoshoping. Skin tones lightened realistically, but too much contrast compared to his face skin.. Too bad it's bogus.


----------



## High/Deaf

Or maybe an Einstein look-alike with a guitar prop?


----------



## jb welder

This is from the snopes article which was linked by Kerry Brown:


----------



## zontar

LexxM3 said:


> Mmmmm, Jupiter ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to Bake Scientifically Accurate Cake Planets


I like Jupiter.


----------



## Robert1950

A short vid on the discovery of Uranus. (No jokes on the pronunciation)


----------



## LexxM3

Cross-posting this to the Chuck Berry RIP thread as well.


----------



## zontar

LexxM3 said:


> Cross-posting this to the Chuck Berry RIP thread as well.


SNL did a bit on the Voyager spacecraft & the inclusion of music--including Chuck Berry--they reported on Weekend Update that a message has been received from aliens--"Send More Chuck Berry"


----------



## High/Deaf

Truth is of course, we have been. For decades and decades. And at much higher speeds than V'ger. 

Chuck left around the same time as Lucy.


----------



## bw66

High/Deaf said:


> Truth is of course, we have been. For decades and decades. And at much higher speeds than V'ger.
> 
> Chuck left around the same time as Lucy.


Sadly, as I understand it, Hitler was the first to be sent into space...


----------



## High/Deaf

bw66 said:


> Sadly, as I understand it, Hitler was the first to be sent into space...


That's terrifying in that any alien conquistadors would be hell-bent-for-leather on destroying us, thinking our society is run like that. 

Hopefully, they'll get here and realize we've evolved from that and think better of us. Or they'll meet Trump and we're back to where we started.


----------



## Lincoln

they say the earth is about 4.5 billion years old. A long time considering what we think of as recorded history is maybe 100,000 years? That's like 450 times our 100,000 years. A lot can come and go in 4.5 billion years.

A little music to watch the stars by.......


----------



## bw66

High/Deaf said:


> That's terrifying in that any alien conquistadors would be hell-bent-for-leather on destroying us, thinking our society is run like that.
> 
> Hopefully, they'll get here and realize we've evolved from that and think better of us. Or they'll meet Trump and we're back to where we started.


They would have plenty of time to analyze our subsequent broadcasts as they made their way here. I'm not sure if they would want to put us out of our misery or not...


----------



## Robert1950

PLUTO: Politics iiiinnnnnnn SPACE !!

The politics of Pluto: 10 years later, the bitter debate rages on


----------



## Robert1950

Black Hole Time...


----------



## zontar

Robert1950 said:


> PLUTO: Politics iiiinnnnnnn SPACE !!
> 
> The politics of Pluto: 10 years later, the bitter debate rages on


Mickey Mouse's dog is a planet...


----------



## Steadfastly

Robert1950 said:


> PLUTO: Politics iiiinnnnnnn SPACE !!
> 
> The politics of Pluto: 10 years later, the bitter debate rages on


Politics are everywhere calling reputations into question.


----------



## Robert1950

Wanna become famous? Discover Planet 9 in Outer Space! 

Planet Nine: Astronomers want help from amateur stargazers - BBC News


----------



## Robert1950

Black Holes may also be creating stars...

Supermassive black holes give birth to stars, astronomers discover


----------



## Robert1950

The Sauna Planet....

Atmosphere found around Earth-like planet GJ 1132b - BBC News

And an Interstellar Head On Collision...

Violent end as young stars dramatically collide - BBC News


----------



## Steadfastly

Robert1950 said:


> The Sauna Planet....
> 
> Atmosphere found around Earth-like planet GJ 1132b - BBC News
> 
> And an Interstellar Head On Collision...
> 
> Violent end as young stars dramatically collide - BBC News


That is really a misnomer. There is no planet even close to earth-like. They are just trying to get headlines.


----------



## Guest

Steadfastly said:


> There is no planet even close to earth-like.


Are we to assume that you've traversed the entire universe and know this for a fact?


----------



## Steadfastly

laristotle said:


> Are we to assume that you've traversed the entire universe and know this for a fact?


If there is one, please point it out with all the facts. Maybe you could find one that even has an atmosphere like the earth where we could actually breathe. How about water and land where we could grow food so we could eat and the right temperature so we didn't freeze to death or boil away.


----------



## Guest

Steadfastly said:


> If there is one, please point it out with all the facts.


I didn't make any statement that there is.
You stated that there isn't. How do you know?
Can *you* please provide us with any/all the evidence?


----------



## Robert1950

Steadfastly said:


> That is really a misnomer. There is no planet even close to earth-like. They are just trying to get headlines.


Depends on your concept and definition. From the larger perspective of Astronomers and Astrophysicists, Venus is an Earth Like planet. This planes, GJ1132b *is* an Earth LIKE planet. There are variations of Earth Like planets in Astronomy. Your definition appears to be more narrow - Earth Like is only earth like if the planet is very close in size, orbits the sun in the habitable zone, has liquid water and an atmosphere where human beings can survive in some shape or form. Scientists in this field do no use such a restrictive definition. They did not say GJ1132b was a 'habitable' earth like planet. 

The planet Proxima B in orbit around a red dwarf, Proxima Centauri, is in the habitable zone with possibly liquid water and is just a little larger than earth. It is considered earth like. But it gets hit by many times the amount of x-rays from its sun as weedo and that would likely sterilize anything that might evolve. It may also be tidally locked in its orbit which means one side always face the sun and the other is always dark. Therefore it is unlikely a 'humanly' habitable earth like planet.

Obvious planets that are not earth like are gas giants. Jupiter and Ur-anus. I do not consider their definition to be a misnomer just to get attention at all.


----------



## Steadfastly

Robert1950 said:


> Depends on your concept and definition.


Earthlike to me would be earthlike as in like the earth. Let's not play on words.


----------



## High/Deaf

Steadfastly said:


> Earthlike to me would be earthlike as in like the earth. Let's not play on words.


You're the one playing on words - and with an obvious agenda.

As @Robert1950 pointed out, there are experts, you know, people who do this for a living and study it and think about it and write things about it, that have a vastly different definition than you. Now who would anyone with more than a couple firing neurons listen to in this discussion? Stick to what you know and your credibility may not be so negatively impacted. You are way out of your depth in this discussion.


----------



## Lincoln

I remember reading books in the astronomy books in the 60`s (more than likely written in the 40`s or 50`s) that pretty much said there was a very high possibility of there being life on Venus. Sure the temperature was probably a little higher than earth, but it had clouds so it had water and that meant life. Then the Russians started sending landers there, and we learned the truth. Venus before that time was considered to be very Earthlike, I recall it was even referred to as Earth`s twin. But they could not have been more wrong when it came to habitable. Like Robert1950 says, earthlike to us is not the same thing as earthlike to scientists.


----------



## Steadfastly

High/Deaf said:


> You're the one playing on words - and with an obvious agenda.
> 
> As @Robert1950 pointed out, there are experts, you know, *people who do this for a living* and study it and think about it and write things about it, that have *a vastly different definition* than you. Now who would anyone with more than a couple firing neurons listen to in this discussion? Stick to what you know and your credibility may not be so negatively impacted. You are way out of your depth in this discussion.


Two points in your post are noteworthy.

1) They do this for a living. _That puts pressure on people because much of the money they receive is from grants from government and corporations and these people want to see results for the money invested. When money and jobs hand in the balance, details have been knows to be stretched and even avoided._

2) Vastly different definition. _They need to make it seem that way to keep their credentials even in the face of reason._

If you think this planet is earthlike, please provide answers to my post #149 so you can provide us all with your depth of knowledge and support this claim that it is earthlike.


----------



## High/Deaf

Steadfastly said:


> Two points in your post are noteworthy.
> 
> 1) They do this for a living. _That puts pressure on people because much of the money they receive is from grants from government and corporations and these people want to see results for the money invested. When money and jobs hand in the balance, details have been knows to be stretched and even avoided._


You mean like religious leaders? Interesting.............


----------



## Bubb

Steadfastly said:


> _They need to make it seem that way to keep their credentials even in the face of reason._


Now that's rich !


----------



## Steadfastly

Bubb said:


> Now that's _rich !_


Yes, rich is how many of them like to stay.


----------



## Robert1950

The Event Horizon Telescope. 

Earth-sized telescope found its roots in Canada: Bob McDonald


----------



## High/Deaf

NASA recently released pictures of one of Saturn's moons, Pan. It is being compared to ravioli, for obvious reasons. Just more entertainment and education provided by Cassini, and exploration in general.

NASA Releases Images of Saturn’s Ravioli-Shaped Moon Pan


----------



## colchar

Steadfastly said:


> A study has been done showing the planet could easily house 25 billion people if managed properly using only 1/2 the planet with the other half devoted to other forms of life and uses. So the issue is not where to put them but managing the earth and its resources. Many have lots of land and others live in slums because of greed.



What study and who did it?


----------



## Guest

colchar said:


> What study and who did it?


I thought of asking the same.
Decided against it though because of the next-to-nil chances of getting an answer.


----------



## colchar

Steadfastly said:


> Being an open forum, I had the understanding that all posts could be posted in a thread.





High/Deaf said:


> NASA recently released pictures of one of Saturn's moons, Pan. It is being compared to ravioli, for obvious reasons. Just more entertainment and education provided by Cassini, and exploration in general.
> 
> NASA Releases Images of Saturn’s Ravioli-Shaped Moon Pan
> 
> View attachment 77873
> 
> 
> View attachment 77881



I take that as proof of the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (sauce be upon him).


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> I thought of asking the same.
> Decided against it though because of the next-to-nil chances of getting an answer.


I wonder how they would control the population and where the food supply would come from.


----------



## Robert1950

Electraglide said:


> I wonder how they would control the population and where the food supply would come from.


Why that is in the study that Steadly mentioned (without reference or citation)


----------



## Electraglide

Robert1950 said:


> Why that is in the study that Steadly mentioned (without reference or citation)


Just another version of growing your own food I guess. That would be, as steady stated, managed properly.


----------



## davetcan

colchar said:


> What study and who did it?


I'd like to see it. Most studies seem to point to 11 Billion being about the max. Here's one example. (notice I took the time and effort to post one)

How many people can our planet really support?

And here's a counter argument to save steadly some effort.

Lawrence Solomon: Can Earth handle 29 billion people? Easy


----------



## Guest

_"The world has enough for everyone's need, but not enough for everyone's greed."_


----------



## High/Deaf

colchar said:


> I take that as proof of the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (sauce be upon him).


Funny enough, I don't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. But I do believe in Ziltoid (the pic is proof). Just traipsing across the 'verse, looking for a good cup o' coffee.


----------



## Guest

Perhaps our planet is indeed flat.
Balanced on the backs of four elephants riding on a space turtle.


----------



## colchar

This press conference about 'ocean worlds' should be interesting:


Nasa announces major press conference on 'search for life beyond our planet'


----------



## Robert1950

A bit more evidence on the existence of dark matter...

Canadian researchers create first map of universe's dark matter

This study came up empty. But it is looking at it from a different way. 

Latest search for dark matter comes up empty

Search goes on.


----------



## LexxM3

Robert1950 said:


> A bit more evidence on the existence of dark matter...
> 
> Canadian researchers create first map of universe's dark matter
> 
> This study came up empty. But it is looking at it from a different way.
> 
> Latest search for dark matter comes up empty
> 
> Search goes on.


As much as I am a fan-boy of UWaterloo, and as cool as this visualization is, it doesn't "prove" nor "detect" dark matter. It rather is a phenomenal visualization of gravitational lensing that confirms there is a whole lot we don't understand that is going on. Dark matter is not really a thing, it is rather a name for that lack of understanding at this point.


----------



## J-75

Up... What is it?
Everything in our field of view appears upright as you tilt your head, until, at some critical angle, the view 'snaps' to upside-down.
Up is the direction we usually find our head, relative to our feet. OK, no biggie.
On a global perspective however, why is the earth referenced to North being 'up' on maps, globes, GPS defaults, etc?
Beyond that, our solar system is referenced to the attitude of the earth, with "north" planetary poles defined (relatively) as 'up'.
Planetary system rotations are defined as prograde, or retrograde, relative to that reference attitude.
The north geographic pole is on the same side of the earth (lately, at least), as the north magnetic pole because they are both _contrived_ directions.
What if the early global explorers had originated from Australia or Argentina? Would our perception of the entire solar system be flipped?
Is "up" based on a crap-shoot? Space doesn't have a top or bottom.

"What's up, Doc?" (B.B.) (Sorry, couldn't resist - perfect fit)


----------



## Robert1950

Up down, left right, forwards backwards. Humans have used orientation in space (and time) to navigate and make sense of the world around them for eons. Assigning terms that are used today these just happened to originate in the northern hemisphere. So North is up and South is down, just happened to be the way it was labelled. So of course they are contrived. And labels tend to stick.


----------



## Robert1950

The next exoplanet up for examination. 

Newly discovered exoplanet best place to search for life, astronomers say


----------



## bolero

I am glad I live on the part of the planet where the toilet bowl water goes down, spiraling in the right direction


----------



## Robert1950

Cassini's last run...

Cassini probe sets up Saturn 'grand finale' - BBC News


----------



## zontar

Robert1950 said:


> Up down, left right, forwards backwards. Humans have used orientation in space (and time) to navigate and make sense of the world around them for eons. Assigning terms that are used today these just happened to originate in the northern hemisphere. So North is up and South is down, just happened to be the way it was labelled. So of course they are contrived. And labels tend to stick.


Even something like Clockwise is used by people who are more used to digital clocks & watches & often don't understand when you say quarter to or quarter after...


----------



## Steadfastly

Space garbage over the last 63 years. 

Watch space garbage accumulate over 63 years - BBC News


----------



## Robert1950

Cassini begins the last phase of it's science gathering mission

Cassini set for first Saturn gap plunge - BBC News


----------



## colchar

Cassini’s First Grand Finale Dive: Milestones


----------



## Guest




----------



## Robert1950

Cassini makes it out alive after its first of 22 orbits through Saturn's rings. (How's that for a bit hype  )

Cassini radio signal from Saturn picked up after dive - BBC News


----------



## Lincoln

I remember when the Voyager series gave us our first real look at Jupiter, Saturn, and...... or course Uranus...... pretty exciting stuff.


----------



## Robert1950

*Robots In Space !!!*
_
Robots boldly go where no one has gone before: Bob McDonald_


----------



## Guest

_Too bad we can't make cars on Earth that run so long past warranty._


----------



## Budda

laristotle said:


> _Too bad we can't make cars on Earth that run so long past warranty._


Yeah but then how would the car manufacturers make all that money?


----------



## High/Deaf

If one of ever 9 or 10 cars failed, the auto business would be equal to the Apollo program. If one in every 15 to 20 cars failed, they've had the reliability of the shuttle program. 

But my tongue is firmly in my cheek. I recognize how much higher the bar is in the space program. Thus the 5 digit handtools that weigh grams. That they do what they do is astounding to me on a regular basis. I wish it was as exciting as the late 60s and those Apollo missions. That was something.


----------



## Guest




----------



## Robert1950

What they hope to find with the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST)


----------



## Robert1950

How Big? (last minute is a commercial for the sponsor of the video)


----------



## Robert1950

Pictures of the Earth and Moon,... as seen by Cassini


----------



## Lincoln

Robert1950 said:


> How Big? (last minute is a commercial for the sponsor of the video)


Perspective is everything. More stars in the universe than there are grains on sand on Earth.........and distances so vast that by the time you got there at the speed of light. the place you were going wouldn't exist anymore. 

mind blown.........


----------



## zontar

Robert1950 said:


> How Big? (last minute is a commercial for the sponsor of the video)


----------



## Robert1950

@zontar beat me to it. Never leave the planet without your towel.


----------



## leftysg

Plasma waves on Jupiter! Kind of Frippish...anyone else waiting for the first chord of 21st Century Schizoid Man to hit?

[video]


----------



## Robert1950

Another pass by Juno around Jupiter.

Juno peers below Jupiter's clouds - BBC News


----------



## Robert1950

Another picture of how incredibly mindbogglingly small the Earth is...


----------



## Robert1950

If you got the time, the software and the skills, maybe you can do this...

Citizens produce stunning images of Jupiter from Juno spacecraft


----------



## Robert1950

Another Gravity Wave detected...

3rd gravitational wave detected, opening 'new window on the universe'


----------



## Robert1950

The LIGO Movie (not the LEGO movie)

A 20 minute move on the detection of gravitational waves...


----------



## Robert1950

The really big gravity wave experiment. Took decades to develop the technology. Will take almost another two decades from start to launch. Science doesn't happen overnight.

Europe selects grand gravity mission - BBC News


----------



## High/Deaf




----------



## zontar

High/Deaf said:


> View attachment 97881


There's a Doctor Who episode about that...


----------



## Robert1950

Mercury - joint European and Japanese mission 

BepiColombo: Joint Mercury mission ready for 'pizza oven' - BBC News


----------



## LexxM3




----------



## Robert1950

Jupiter's Red Spot, ready for its close-up...

Jupiter's Great Red Spot gets a close-up


----------



## Robert1950

The Red Spot...










1st close-up images of Jupiter's Great Red Spot released

Behold Jupiter's Great Red Spot - BBC News


----------



## Robert1950

It's been two years since the flyby of Pluto by the New Horizons space probe. What do we know so far...


----------



## Robert1950

First Exo-moon ??

Signal may be from first 'exomoon' - BBC News


----------



## Robert1950

Elon Musk reveals new SpaceX spacesuit


----------



## Robert1950

Telescope captures most detailed image of any star beyond the sun


----------



## Robert1950

Collision of two neutron stars. Seen and gravitational waves detected. A first.

Astronomers see gravitational waves in visible light for 1st time

Here is a nice artist's representation.....


----------



## Robert1950

Here's another article with a better CGI illustration of what happened when two neutron stars collided.

'Kilonova' detection is astronomical gold mine, here's why


----------



## Robert1950

Why the observed neutron star collision is massively important to astrophysical science

5 fascinating facts about the star crash that made gravitational waves


----------



## Steadfastly

*Disabled Chinese space lab likely to crash to Earth in coming months*
*8-tonne Tiangong-1 not expected to pose threat when it re-enters Earth’s atmosphere between now and April*
CBC News Posted: Oct 19, 2017 1:31 PM ET Last Updated: Oct 19, 2017 2:20 PM ET

Disabled Chinese space lab likely to crash to Earth in coming months









China's Shenzhou-9 manned spacecraft, left, conducts docking with the Tiangong-1 space lab module in 2012. China lost control of the orbiting space lab in 2016, and it's now falling gradually toward Earth. (Beijing Aerospace Control Center via Xinhua/Associated Press)


*Related Stories*

World needs to stop playing space junk roulette: Bob's blog

A defunct, yacht-sized Chinese space lab is expected to fall out of orbit and crash to Earth in the coming months.

China launched the eight-tonne Tiangong-1 satellite in 2011. Tiangong means "Heavenly Palace" in Chinese. The satellite, which is 12 metres long and 3.3 metres in diameter, was designed to test technology for a future space station. The Chinese space program used it for a series of spacecraft docking tests and visits from astronauts.

The space lab broke down and stopped functioning in March 2016. That means China's space agency no longer has control of it.

Chinese officials told the UN secretary general in May 2017 that Tiangong-1 was expected to re-enter Earth's atmosphere between October 2017 and April 2018.

But as of Oct. 19, the satellite was still orbiting at an altitude of 305 kilometres above the surface and wasn't expected to come down immediately, according to the satellite tracking site SatFlare.


----------



## Robert1950

This is an ideal example about how collaborative science really works. Colliding Neutron Stars - Kilonova

When stars collide: How 4,000 scientists converged for an epic kilonova cram session


----------



## boyscout

"_For the first time, astronomers have observed something passing through our solar system that has likely travelled light years to get here._"

Let's hope it doesn't have a lot of friends!

Canadian astronomer spots 'visitor' from beyond our solar system


----------



## Guest

a crashed alien spaceship on Mars?

_Amateur paranormal investigators routinely claim that they’ve spotted signs of ancient alien civilizations 
in material published by NASA — from “alien skulls” to structures that turn out to be nothing more than 
oddly-shaped rocks — but rarely does the evidence appear as undeniable as this. Several in the skywatching 
community are putting their weight behind a theory that there’s actually an alien spaceship on Mars, and 
once you see the images it’s actually pretty convincing.








_


----------



## butterknucket




----------



## Steadfastly

laristotle said:


> a crashed alien spaceship on Mars?
> 
> _Amateur paranormal investigators routinely claim that they’ve spotted signs of ancient alien civilizations
> in material published by NASA — from “alien skulls” to structures that turn out to be nothing more than
> oddly-shaped rocks — but rarely does the evidence appear as undeniable as this. Several in the skywatching
> community are putting their weight behind a theory that there’s actually an alien spaceship on Mars, and
> once you see the images it’s actually pretty convincing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


There should be a straw beside that picture so they can grasp it.


----------



## butterknucket

laristotle said:


> a crashed alien spaceship on Mars?
> 
> _Amateur paranormal investigators routinely claim that they’ve spotted signs of ancient alien civilizations
> in material published by NASA — from “alien skulls” to structures that turn out to be nothing more than
> oddly-shaped rocks — but rarely does the evidence appear as undeniable as this. Several in the skywatching
> community are putting their weight behind a theory that there’s actually an alien spaceship on Mars, and
> once you see the images it’s actually pretty convincing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _


Why does that remind me of the chocolate eclairs at Tim Horton's back in the 80's?


----------



## Robert1950

First observed interstellar asteroid...

Bizarre shape of interstellar asteroid


----------



## Robert1950

How to get to Mars faster,... they are working on it.


----------



## Robert1950

THE FALCON HEAVY

Tesla Roadster launched into space with 'Starman the Mannequin' in the driver's seat and _*'DON'T PANIC' *_on the dashboard video display while listening to 'Life on Mars' by David Bowie.

Falcon Heavy






This is a simulation photo but it is fairly accurate


----------



## Guest




----------



## Robert1950

A real photograph of the Tesla Roadster in Space.


----------



## Robert1950

Live View Tesla in Space


----------



## High/Deaf




----------



## Robert1950

Curiosity Rover - 2000 days (Martian days) Mars

Curiosity rover: 2,000 days on Mars


----------



## Robert1950

The massive black hole at the centre of our galaxy has a bunch of little ones..

Centre of Milky Way home to 10,000 black holes, study suggests | CBC News


----------



## Robert1950

Uranus surrounding by a cloud of rotten egg gas. (hydrogen sulfide)

Rotten egg gas around planet Uranus

Makes you wonder what should the proper pronunciation of Uranus "_Urine Us" or " Your Anus"_


----------



## zontar

High/Deaf said:


>


I thought it was a 1968 Chrysler Imperial


----------



## Guest

ESA’s Gaia mission has produced the richest star catalogue to date, including high-precision measurements 
of nearly 1.7 billion stars and revealing previously unseen details of our home Galaxy.


----------



## Robert1950

On second thought there is more detail in the above post.


----------



## Robert1950

Mars Rocks...

Agencies aim to bring back rocks from Mars

Yes, those type of rocks, but Mars still Rocks.


----------



## Steadfastly

Robert1950 said:


> Mars Rocks...
> 
> Agencies aim to bring back rocks from Mars
> 
> Yes, those type of rocks, but Mars still Rocks.


Mars bars would be better.


----------



## Robert1950

Einstein theory of relativity, and gravity, now proven right on a galactic scale

Einstein is proven right yet again — this time on a galactic scale | CBC News


----------



## Robert1950

Japanese satellite arrives at 1 km wide asteroid. Plans to land, take sample and return to earth in 2020. More interesting info in Wikipedia article. Speculated mining value around $82B US. 

Japanese spacecraft arrives safely at asteroid after 3.5-year journey | CBC News

162173 Ryugu - Wikipedia


----------



## Budda

Just saw that as i follow sarcastic rover on twitter.

So wild.


----------



## Dorian2

So humans can send a satellite 300 million Km from the planet Earth to map the surface and take samples of an Asteroid and yet we still cannot harness the tone of a cranked amp in an apartment setting realistically?

WTF. 

lol..... kidding aside, great thread.


----------



## Robert1950

This Mars Rover will be taught to fetch...

Fetch rover! Robot to retrieve Mars rocks


----------



## Mooh




----------



## boyscout

Just watched an episode of Nova available now on Netflix about Albert Einstein's theory of relativity.

I have watched or read many attempts to explain Einstein's work and this one illuminated it for me like nothing before. (I'm far from being a physicist.) The latter part of the program ties in explorations to expand on Einstein's work and try to complete his effort to find a simple way to explain most of nature. Fascinating.

Never seen a bad Nova, but IMO this one is unusually good.


----------



## Robert1950

High energy neutrino rips through antarctic detector. Now they can tell where they come from and what creates them

'Ghost particle' reveals source of mysterious cosmic rays | CBC News


----------



## Daniel Grenier

Robert1950 said:


> High energy neutrino rips through antarctic detector. Now they can tell where they come from and what creates them
> 
> 'Ghost particle' reveals source of mysterious cosmic rays | CBC News


4 billion light years away and scientists can actually figure out where a single particle so small it can't be physically seen comes from. Science fiction is being outdone by reality. Mind boggling and fascinating. Also mind boggling is that "several billion nutrinos go thru your thumbnail every second".


----------



## Robert1950

The GMT or Giant Magellan Telescope. Still another 7 years from completion. This guy give a really good 101 on what it will do. Hope I am still around to see what it finds


----------



## Robert1950

If you want more detail on the GMT - Giant Magellan Telescope - Wikipedia


----------



## Robert1950

If you want more detail on the GMT - Giant Magellan Telescope - Wikipedia


----------



## Robert1950

12 more moons found orbiting Jupiter

12 new moons discovered around Jupiter | CBC News


----------



## High/Deaf

Robert1950 said:


> 12 more moons found orbiting Jupiter
> 
> 12 new moons discovered around Jupiter | CBC News


As our resolution to see these increases, I wonder if we're going to get into a discussion on what it takes to actually be a moon, a la planets years ago. If anything goes, they couldn't count the number of moons going around Saturn.


----------



## Robert1950

High/Deaf said:


> As our resolution to see these increases, I wonder if we're going to get into a discussion on what it takes to actually be a moon, a la planets years ago. If anything goes, they couldn't count the number of moons going around Saturn.


About what I was thinking. I wonder if they will define a lower limit in size for what qualifies as a moon. Like the Sky Dome big? (Yes, I still call the Rogers Centre the Sky Dome)


----------



## Guest




----------



## Steadfastly

With so many new discoveries over the last number of years, it shows how little we know about our vast Milky Way Galaxy, let alone our vast universe.


----------



## Robert1950

Ground based astronomy just got a whole lot better......

How new telescope technology captured this image of Neptune from down here on Earth | CBC News


----------



## Robert1950

To Catch a Piece of the Sun............

Solar probe set to launch into the sun's scorching 'red zone' | CBC News


----------



## vadsy

Robert1950 said:


> To Catch a Piece of the Sun............
> 
> Solar probe set to launch into the sun's scorching 'red zone' | CBC News


they should just go at night, it would be easier on the equipment


----------



## Robert1950

vadsy said:


> they should just go at night, it would be easier on the equipment


----------



## Robert1950

Einstein theory passes the test of gravitational red shift.

Einstein theory passes black hole test

Edit: Here is a video explaining it...


----------



## Robert1950

*Meet Betelgeuse*

Betelgeuse, which is located approximately 640 light-years from Earth in the constellation Orion — is one of the biggest and brightest stars in our galactic neighborhood. It could swallow the Sun _20 times over. _Ultimately, this beast emits 100,000 times more light than our own star.

If that doesn’t convey its sheer enormity, let me put it this way: If you were to replace Betelgeuse with our Sun, it would extend all the way to Jupiter, engulfing Earth and all of the planets in the inner solar system.

Despite its amazing power, the star is nearing the end of its life.

It’s estimated that Betelgeuse could go supernova anytime in the next million years. That means that, in all likeliness, we don’t get to see it. But even if it exploded tomorrow, don’t expect the explosion to be noticeable anytime soon.

It would take 640 years or traveling through the interstellar medium before the light made its way all the way to Earth. Interestingly, this means that Betelgeuse (also known as Alpha Orionis) could have already exploded hundreds of years ago, and we would have no way of knowing.

When that light does arrive, the intensity of the supernova, as seen here on Earth, is somewhat a debate. Some suggest that it would be able to be seen during the daytime and outshine the moon at night.

This is because a type II supernova blasts from a star this massive would have a peak luminosity over one _billion_ times the energy produced by the Sun. Given that, and the distance that separates the two entities, the supernova will, at the very least, be visible to us for a small stretch of time, but the rest remains to be seen. Of course, given the vast distance, life on Earth is unlikely to be altered in any meaningful way (except that we’ll likely have an absurdly bright star in our night sky).

Hopefully we’ll get a chance to witness this spectacular celestial event before we pass on to dust.

_Futurism - January 14, 2014 - by Jaime Trosper_


----------



## Robert1950

Another Season of COSMOS !!


----------



## zontar

Robert1950 said:


> If that doesn’t convey its sheer enormity, let me put it this way: If you were to replace Betelgeuse with our Sun, it would extend all the way to Jupiter, engulfing Earth and all of the planets in the inner solar system.






And somebody from that show/book/radio play/album/script/movie/comic/etc is from a planet that orbits Betelguese


----------



## Robert1950

With my avatar, you can see why I 'liked' the above snippet.


----------



## boyscout

Interesting perspective of the Perseid meteor shower (coming very soon to a theater above you).

Meteor showers from space


----------



## Guest




----------



## Robert1950

They don't want you to pronounce it _"Your Anus"_. They want you to say _"Urine Us". ............._ right.


----------



## Robert1950

Water ice detected on the moon.

Water ice 'detected on Moon's surface'


----------



## Robert1950

Future Telescopes...






First 10 minutes


----------



## leftysg

Robert1950 said:


> *Meet Betelgeuse*
> 
> Betelgeuse, which is located approximately 640 light-years from Earth in the constellation Orion — is one of the biggest and brightest stars in our galactic neighborhood. It could swallow the Sun _20 times over. _Ultimately, this beast emits 100,000 times more light than our own star.
> 
> If that doesn’t convey its sheer enormity, let me put it this way: If you were to replace Betelgeuse with our Sun, it would extend all the way to Jupiter, engulfing Earth and all of the planets in the inner solar system.
> 
> Despite its amazing power, the star is nearing the end of its life.
> 
> It’s estimated that Betelgeuse could go supernova anytime in the next million years. That means that, in all likeliness, we don’t get to see it. But even if it exploded tomorrow, don’t expect the explosion to be noticeable anytime soon.
> 
> It would take 640 years or traveling through the interstellar medium before the light made its way all the way to Earth. Interestingly, this means that Betelgeuse (also known as Alpha Orionis) could have already exploded hundreds of years ago, and we would have no way of knowing.
> 
> When that light does arrive, the intensity of the supernova, as seen here on Earth, is somewhat a debate. Some suggest that it would be able to be seen during the daytime and outshine the moon at night.
> 
> This is because a type II supernova blasts from a star this massive would have a peak luminosity over one _billion_ times the energy produced by the Sun. Given that, and the distance that separates the two entities, the supernova will, at the very least, be visible to us for a small stretch of time, but the rest remains to be seen. Of course, given the vast distance, life on Earth is unlikely to be altered in any meaningful way (except that we’ll likely have an absurdly bright star in our night sky).
> 
> Hopefully we’ll get a chance to witness this spectacular celestial event before we pass on to dust.
> 
> _Futurism - January 14, 2014 - by Jaime Trosper_


Just don't say its name three times in a row or Michael Keaton might appear!


----------



## Robert1950

If the evolutionary descendants of the human race are still around in about 1.3m years.........

Gliese 710 - Wikipedia


----------



## Robert1950

I won an award for the Gliese 710 system


----------



## greco

Robert1950 said:


> I won an award for the Gliese 710 system


Congratulations! 

Please tell us more (or post a link).


----------



## Robert1950

Also Norway


----------



## Guest

Could this be the famed Nibiru (planet X) that ancient alien theorists babble on about?


----------



## Robert1950

Black holes and finding them, This guy gives it simple enough - zero space, infinite density, laws of physics break down, but are predicted by Einstein's General Theory of Relativity. There is still some technical jargon and it is nerdy enough, but you can only dumb science so much.


----------



## Robert1950

Pluto's weird geology and a planet around Bernard's star


----------



## greco

Mars landing day arrives[/paste:font]
The Canadian Press - Nov 26, 2018 / 5:20 am | Story: 242884








Photo: The Canadian Press
This image made available by NASA shows the planet Mars.
A NASA spacecraft's six-month journey to Mars neared its dramatic grand finale Monday in what scientists and engineers hoped would be a soft precision landing on flat red plains.

The InSight lander aimed for an afternoon touchdown, as anxiety built among those involved in the $1 billion international effort.

InSight's perilous descent through the Martian atmosphere, after a trip of 300 million miles (482 million kilometres), had stomachs churning and nerves stretched to the max. Although an old pro at this, NASA last attempted a landing at Mars six years ago.

*The robotic geologist — designed to explore Mars' mysterious insides — must go from 12,300 mph (19,800 kph) to zero in six minutes flat as it pierces the Martian atmosphere, pops out a parachute, fires its descent engines and, hopefully, lands on three legs.*

"Landing on Mars is one of the hardest single jobs that people have to do in planetary exploration," noted InSight's lead scientist, Bruce Banerdt. "It's such a difficult thing, it's such a dangerous thing that there's always a fairly uncomfortably large chance that something could go wrong."

Earth's success rate at Mars is 40 per cent, counting every attempted flyby, orbital flight and landing by the U.S., Russia and other countries dating all the way back to 1960.

But the U.S. has pulled off seven successful Mars landings in the past four decades. With only one failed touchdown, it's an enviable record. No other country has managed to set and operate a spacecraft on the dusty red surface.

InSight could hand NASA its eighth win.

It's shooting for Elysium Planitia, a plain near the Martian equator that the InSight team hopes is as flat as a parking lot in Kansas with few, if any, rocks. This is no rock-collecting expedition. Instead, the stationary 800-pound (360-kilogram) lander will use its 6-foot (1.8-meter) robotic arm to place a mechanical mole and seismometer on the ground.

The self-hammering mole will burrow 16 feet (5 metres) down to measure the planet's internal heat, while the ultra-high-tech seismometer listens for possible marsquakes. Nothing like this has been attempted before at our smaller next-door neighbour, nearly 100 million miles (160 million kilometres) away.

No experiments have ever been moved robotically from the spacecraft to the actual Martian surface. No lander has dug deeper than several inches, and no seismometer has ever worked on Mars.

By examining the deepest, darkest interior of Mars — still preserved from its earliest days — scientists hope to create 3D images that could reveal how our solar system's rocky planets formed 4.5 billion years ago and why they turned out so different. One of the big questions is what made Earth so hospitable to life.

Mars once had flowing rivers and lakes; the deltas and lakebeds are now dry, and the planet cold. Venus is a furnace because of its thick, heat-trapping atmosphere. Mercury, closest to the sun, has a surface that's positively baked.

The planetary know-how gained from InSight's two-year operation could even spill over to rocky worlds beyond our solar system, according to Banerdt. The findings on Mars could help explain the type of conditions at these so-called exoplanets "and how they fit into the story that we're trying to figure out for how planets form," he said.


----------



## Robert1950

Finding Planet Nine...


----------



## Guest




----------



## Robert1950

More on Planet 9,........_ from outer space !!





_


----------



## Robert1950

Bringing home some space rock in 2023

US probe arrives at Asteroid Bennu


----------



## Robert1950

Voyager One officially in Interstellar Space. Took over 41 years. Won't reach nearest star for 40,000 years but hey...

Voyager 2 probe 'leaves Solar System'


----------



## High/Deaf

Robert1950 said:


> Voyager One officially in Interstellar Space. Took over 41 years. *Won't reach nearest star for 40,000 years but hey...*
> 
> Voyager 2 probe 'leaves Solar System'


So about the same time Justin expects to have a balanced budget.


----------



## Robert1950

High/Deaf said:


> So about the same time Justin expects to have a balanced budget.


I will resist making an anti-conservative quip, not that I am pro-Justin either, but hey...


----------



## High/Deaf

Robert1950 said:


> I will resist making an anti-conservative quip, not that I am pro-Justin either, but hey...


You know how it goes, Robert. The joy of being in power is that you are the target. Especially if you make promises.

No party or political affiliation is spared. That's the way it was 5 years ago. And 10 years ago. And 15 years ago. And 20 years ago. And ....................


----------



## Guest




----------



## Robert1950

Andromeda - Milky Way Collision,... in about 4,000,000,000 years or so. First 9:30 minutes. Last 2:30 unrelated


----------



## Robert1950

Nova detected by Canadian scientists. 

Rarely recorded nova caught on tape with the help of Sackville professor | CBC News

For the difference between type 1 and type 2 novas/supernovas, if you are interested

What is the difference between a type I and type II supernovas? | Socratic


----------



## Guest

Scientists spot solar system's farthest known object — and they've named it 'Farout'
_It is an estimated 500 kilometres across and believed to be round. 
Its pink shade indicates an ice-rich object. Little else is known_


----------



## Robert1950




----------



## Gavz

- I'll go. - Far out.


----------



## Robert1950

Those little robotic explorers that just keep going. New Horizons passes Ultima Thule New Years Day.

NASA's New Horizons spacecraft to reach icy world at edge of solar system New Year's Day | CBC News


----------



## Lincoln

Has Pluto been declared a planet again now that there has been some fly-by's? It certainly looks like a planet, even has a moon!


----------



## zontar




----------



## Robert1950

New Horizons flyby of Kuiper Belt object Ultima Thule yesterday, 6.5 billion km away, 30x20 km in size. The reason for the interest in this, unlike other planets, asteroids and such, is that it is essentially unchanged since the formation of the solar system 4.5 billion years. This 14 year ole robotic explorer systems operate at 15w, less than your average light bulb. It sends information back at one bit per second. It will take 20 months to finish sending all the information on Ultima Thule back to Earth. Here is the first image released from a distance of 3500 km. Once they get more information back, they will be able to release much higher resolution pictures.


----------



## Ship of fools

That is freakin awesome so much new things to see and explore


----------



## Robert1950

Today, a little more detail. It appears to be a contact binary. In other words two objects joined by gravity. This appears to have happened a few billion years ago. And it has colour - red, though I would call it red ochre.










Here is the 50 minute press briefing






Edit: CBC Article - 'Meet Ultima Thule,' the most distant object visited by a spacecraft | CBC News


----------



## leftysg

Robert1950 said:


> New Horizons flyby of Kuiper Belt object Ultima Thule yesterday, 6.5 billion km away, 30x20 km in size. The reason for the interest in this, unlike other planets, asteroids and such, is that it is essentially unchanged since the formation of the solar system 4.5 billion years. This 14 year ole robotic explorer systems operate at 15w, less than your average light bulb. It sends information back at one bit per second. It will take 20 months to finish sending all the information on Ultima Thule back to Earth. Here is the first image released from a distance of 3500 km. Once they get more information back, they will be able to release much higher resolution pictures.


At 15W, Some guys might want to know is New Horizons tube or solid state? Also, any chance Ultima Thule was a contact tertiary at one point? It's just with another member it would look like a snowman...Ultima Thule Frosty or Olaf perhaps? That would be one heck of a carrot and top Hat!


----------



## Robert1950

Ultima Thule looks like BB8.


----------



## BSTheTech

Red from iron? Find it odd news of China heading to the far side of the moon has gone “dark”.


----------



## BSTheTech

Spoke too soon. 

China lands spacecraft on 'dark' side of moon


----------



## Robert1950

Hubble wide-field camera has stopped working (but not dead yet)

Hubble Space Telescope's main camera stops working | CBC News


----------



## Robert1950

BSTheTech said:


> *Red from iron? *Find it odd news of China heading to the far side of the moon has gone “dark”.


Red from Tholins - _*Tholins* (after the Greek θολός (tholós) "hazy" or "muddy";[1] from the ancient Greek word meaning "sepia ink") is an informal name given to a wide variety of organic compounds formed by solar ultraviolet irradiation or cosmic rays from simple carbon-containing compounds such as carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4) or ethane (C2H6), often in combination with nitrogen (N2).[2] Tholins do not form naturally on modern-day Earth, but they are found in great abundance on the surface of icy bodies in the outer Solar System, and as reddish aerosols in the atmosphere of outer Solar System planets and moons._


----------



## knight_yyz

Am I the only moron who stood out in the cold last night to take pics of the Lunar eclipse last night? I'm surprised my camera still worked. I set it up at about 1030 last night, put my remote shutter release on and snapped a shot every 5 or 10 minutes. Unfortunately I am not an astronomer so trying to figure out which way the moon was moving was a bit of a pain. I took about 20 shots with the moon moved off viewfinder. By the time it turned red it was far too dim to take pictures. And man trying to set up a tripod in minus 15* weather with the camera pointed almost straight up!!! Nikon d90 70-210 with 1.5 teleconverter, stopped down to f32 IIRC


----------



## knight_yyz

more


----------



## High/Deaf

knight_yyz said:


> Am I the only moron who stood out in the cold last night to take pics of the Lunar eclipse last night?


Nope, not the only one.

But I suspect with our temp of +4C @ 10 PM, your commitment was much greater than mine.


----------



## Robert1950

Saturn's Rings


----------



## Robert1950

I came out for a few minutes a few times. I was in the far south east part of Kelowna at the time. The view was better than it would have under the city lights in Edmonton. I had similar equipment with me, but no tripod. So..........



knight_yyz said:


> Am I the only moron who stood out in the cold last night to take pics of the Lunar eclipse last night? I'm surprised my camera still worked. I set it up at about 1030 last night, put my remote shutter release on and snapped a shot every 5 or 10 minutes. Unfortunately I am not an astronomer so trying to figure out which way the moon was moving was a bit of a pain. I took about 20 shots with the moon moved off viewfinder. By the time it turned red it was far too dim to take pictures. And man trying to set up a tripod in minus 15* weather with the camera pointed almost straight up!!! Nikon d90 70-210 with 1.5 teleconverter, stopped down to f32 IIRC


----------



## Robert1950

We live a bit of a warped galaxy....

Our Milky Way galaxy is truly warped | CBC News


----------



## High/Deaf

Robert1950 said:


> We live a bit of a warped galaxy....
> 
> Our Milky Way galaxy is truly warped | CBC News


Hmmmmm.

Notice the Left is on the ascendancy while the Right is hopeless plummeting downward? 


*cough, cough* CBC News *cough, cough*


----------



## Guest




----------



## zontar




----------



## Robert1950

Ultima Thule, aka the snowman, aka BB8, is actually more like a gingerbread man. With more data and time to analyze it, it is actually flatter and not an attached binary of two spheres as previously perceived.


----------



## Robert1950

Another article on the co-joined dented walnut and pancake (aka Ultima Thule)

'Space snowman' appears squashed


----------



## Robert1950

In the universe,* space* is expanding,... but not quite everywhere


----------



## Robert1950

Brown Dwarfs - Not really a star, not really a planet, sort of both, maybe. That's just a a start of the confustion...


----------



## Electraglide

Like the Energizer Bunny it just keeps on going and going. The built well back then.


----------



## Robert1950

Satellite pollution of the night skies?? Here is one, well thought out, POV.


----------



## Electraglide

The oldest satellite still drifting around out there is Vanguard 1 launched in 1958. Depending on the size of a lot of this junk I'd be more worried on what would make it back here when they finally crash.


----------



## Electraglide

It's a planet, damn it.


----------



## Robert1950

Our Galaxy is warped and twisted. Far out man....

We live in a warped and twisted galaxy


----------



## Dorian2

Kind of interesting that the relationship between past idea's of the flat earth correspond with the Galaxy to this point. Some barriers are being broken big time it seems.


----------



## Robert1950

Video: How scientists colorize pictures of space captured with the Hubble Telescope


----------



## Electraglide

They will survive. 
Lunar crash may have seeded indestructible ‘water bears’ on the moon
plus check out the link for Area 51.


----------



## Guest




----------



## laristotle




----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


>


----------



## Robert1950

I re-read you quote and I shook my head even more. It just represents an attitude of lets just crawl back in our caves and work on making life in the caves better. We will never agree, so just leave it as that.



Steadfastly said:


> Being an open forum, I had the understanding that all posts could be posted in a thread.
> 
> As for the human race moving forward and the world full of science these days and the world in the biggest mess in its history, science doesn't seem to be having much success.
> 
> As for space exploration, it is now becoming unsafe for astronauts to do space walks because of the space junk floating around up there. I am quite sure, as it is here on earth, that it is cause by scientific discovery.
> 
> So as exciting and sometimes beneficial, science has caused us many problems that we as of yet, have no answer. (i.e. nuclear bombs and energy and plastics).


----------



## bolero




----------



## High/Deaf

Much like I believe people who complain about pipelines shouldn't be seen driving Escalades or Navigators, people who complain about science probably shouldn't be doing so on a computer via the internet. Just sayin' .................


----------



## knight_yyz

For The First Time, Physicists Have Observed a Giant Magnetic 'Bridge' Between Galaxies


----------



## vadsy

I sure hope this is for real,,., beautiful; NASA released new images from the moon


----------



## Dorian2

Seems to be a lot of broken links to images lately.



vadsy said:


> I sure hope this is for real,,., beautiful; NASA released new images from the moon


----------



## laristotle

http://imgur.com/Ydt93Ts


----------



## Steadfastly

Robert1950 said:


> I re-read you quote and I shook my head even more. It just represents an attitude of lets just crawl back in our caves and work on making life in the caves better. We will never agree, so just leave it as that.


So you think the science that has discovered weapons, poisons, etc. that have killed hundreds of millions of people is something good? How about the science of fertilizers and crop chemicals that have caused cancers and digestive problems? As I said, some science has proved beneficial but many discoveries have proven in the long run to be more detrimental than helpful .Placing our hope in science to help us out of our messed up world is nothing more than blind faith, which is a historical fact.


----------



## laristotle

Steadfastly said:


> As I said, some science has proved beneficial but many discoveries have proven in the long run to be more detrimental than helpful


Detrimental mainly because of the use of, not discovery. 
Splitting the atom was intended for energy use, but govt's chose a different path.
Science is not the problem. Mankind is.


----------



## vadsy

Steadfastly said:


> Placing our hope in science to help us out of our messed up world is nothing more than blind faith, which is a historical fact.


I'm happy to see you stop in.


----------



## laristotle

Steadfastly said:


> Placing our hope in science to help us out of our messed up world is nothing more than blind faith, which is a historical fact.


But, wasn't it science that stopped people from being thrown into volcanoes and burned at the stake?
It sure overturned blind faith there.


----------



## oldjoat

yeah but then we invented politicians to compensate. ( non partisan of course , they're all equal )

at every turn , we have people deciding what's best for us ( but really what's best for them in the long run )

heck, with the right spin , even the end of mankind can have a happy outcome.

" large asteroid on collision course with earth, estimated arrival in 3 days .
no one expected to survive , but the good news is the Paris Accord will meet its objective a lot sooner"


----------



## Electraglide

Not to side track the thread too much but who were Awan and Azura?


----------



## Dorian2

Steadfastly said:


> So you think the science that has discovered weapons, poisons, etc. that have killed hundreds of millions of people is something good? How about the science of fertilizers and crop chemicals that have caused cancers and digestive problems? As I said, some science has proved beneficial but many discoveries have proven in the long run to be more detrimental than helpful .Placing our hope in science to help us out of our messed up world is nothing more than blind faith, which is a historical fact.


Just curious. What are YOU placing YOUR hope in these days Steadly? If not science.


----------



## Steadfastly

Dorian2 said:


> Just curious. What are YOU placing YOUR hope in these days Steadly? If not science.


Definitely not in scientists and while I pay my taxes, not in politicians.


----------



## Steadfastly

laristotle said:


> Detrimental mainly because of the use of, not discovery.
> Splitting the atom was intended for energy use, but govt's chose a different path.
> Science is not the problem. Mankind is.


Yes, often that is true. However, we still don't know how to handle nuclear waste. Much of the plastic we produce is now entering our food chain and we don't know how to completely safely dispose of it. Agent Orange and now glyphosate are poisoning us. We could go on and on.


----------



## laristotle

Electraglide said:


> Not to side track the thread too much but who were Awan and Azura?


Google's yer friend.
They were left out of the bible, perhaps because of incestual relations(?) They were not only Cain, Abel and Seth's sisters, but wives as well. Azura apparently did double duty with her brothers Abel and then Seth, after Cain murdered brother Abel.


----------



## Electraglide

Learned about them long before google. Seth too.


----------



## vadsy

Electraglide said:


> Learned about them long before google. Seth too.


no kidin'? I like that you have no intention of further sidetracking this thread,.,


----------



## Electraglide

China’s colossal radio telescope just heard a bizarre signal in space


----------



## High/Deaf

It's good to 'learn' that science is responsible for everything bad and nothing good. Enlightening, to say the least. 

I used to sit in a really hard bench and hear just the opposite about a certain deity - everything good was because of him and everything bad was because you didn't believe hard enough in him. Seemed simplistic to me then - and still does now. But if it helps some people sleep at night ...........


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Robert1950

Exoplanet with Water found....

Water found for first time on 'habitable' planet


----------



## Steadfastly

*Canadians' trust in science falling, poll suggests*
*Social Sharing*

*44% consider scientists 'elitists' and many discount science that doesn't align with personal beliefs*

Canadians' trust in science falling, poll suggests | CBC News


----------



## vadsy

oh boy...,


----------



## Electraglide

Steadfastly said:


> *Canadians' trust in science falling, poll suggests*
> *Social Sharing*
> 
> *44% consider scientists 'elitists' and many discount science that doesn't align with personal beliefs*
> 
> Canadians' trust in science falling, poll suggests | CBC News


14,000 people world wide in 14 countries. That's about 1,000 per country. That means 440 people in all of Canada think this way. Not very convincing. And "elitists"? If I remember correctly from social studies in high school and from Dickens "Tale of Two Cities" isn't that the excuse the French gave to start chopping off heads? Same with the Communists on Russia? I'll discount the part that doesn't align with my personal beliefs.


----------



## laristotle

Steadfastly said:


> 44% consider scientists 'elitists' and many discount science that doesn't align with personal beliefs


Because ancient fictional texts are more valid?


----------



## butterknucket




----------



## laristotle

Secretive military spaceplane lands in Florida after record-long orbital flight
_
The unpiloted X-37B, built by Boeing Co., touched down on an airstrip at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center at 3:51 a.m. ET after spending 780 days orbiting Earth as the Air Force’s fifth flight mission under the Orbital Test Vehicle program, the Air Force said._


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> Secretive military spaceplane lands in Florida after record-long orbital flight
> _
> The unpiloted X-37B, built by Boeing Co., touched down on an airstrip at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center at 3:51 a.m. ET after spending 780 days orbiting Earth as the Air Force’s fifth flight mission under the Orbital Test Vehicle program, the Air Force said._
> 
> View attachment 276804


Doesn't seem secret anymore so I guess the "Space Command" pin from the late 50s is now valid?
Just wondering if this means we can finally go to the planet Porno and turn the sex ray back on? Hopefully there's a new Dale Ardor for the trip.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## zontar

Steadfastly said:


> *Canadians' trust in science falling, poll suggests*
> *Social Sharing*
> 
> *44% consider scientists 'elitists' and many discount science that doesn't align with personal beliefs*
> 
> Canadians' trust in science falling, poll suggests | CBC News


I don't have a problem with science--but sometimes I have a problem with scientists.


----------



## High/Deaf

zontar said:


> I don't have a problem with science--but sometimes I have a problem with scientists.


..........as you should. That's the whole point of the scientific method, to take nothing on faith and know that everything has to be proven. It ain't easy and often scientists run into conflict with each other. Real scientists don't have a problem with this - the whole point of the exercise is to get to the truth, often not an easy place to get to. Sometimes scientists find out they are wrong. A real scientist can handle this.

And that, IMO, is the whole problem with the current climate crisis. Everyone wants to claim science is on their side. It isn't on a side, it's on both sides. But one side is trying really hard to stifle the other side (calling them names, etc.) rather than debate them on the actual science. That is not good science. That is politics.


----------



## jimsz

Steadfastly said:


> *Canadians' trust in science falling, poll suggests*
> *Social Sharing*
> 
> *44% consider scientists 'elitists' and many discount science that doesn't align with personal beliefs*
> 
> Canadians' trust in science falling, poll suggests | CBC News


Calling scientists 'elitists' makes no sense. Is one an 'elitist' if they are focused, disciplined, work hard to find truth in how the world around us works? Seems those that think so are either jealous, lazy or both and most likely the education system has failed them.


----------



## vadsy

jimsz said:


> Calling scientists 'elitists' makes no sense. Is one an 'elitist' if they are focused, disciplined, work hard to find truth in how the world around us works? Seems those that think so are either jealous, lazy or both and most likely the education system has failed them.


easy now, you're going up against one of the top debaters on this forum


----------



## jimsz

vadsy said:


> easy now, you're going up against one of the top debaters on this forum


Not trying to call anyone out, but if someone can substantiate the term 'elitist' when it comes to scientists, I'll be happy to hear it.


----------



## vadsy

jimsz said:


> Not trying to call anyone out, but if someone can substantiate the term 'elitist' when it comes to scientists, I'll be happy to hear it.


hey man, no worries. good luck with Steadly. he's harmless and you ain;t gonna get many answers


----------



## jimsz

I think everyone is free to believe whatever they want, right or wrong. However, I find it odd that one would use a computer, internet connection and these forums (all products of science) to voice such opinions of science. If one is so inclined to be against science, shouldn't they be living in a cave?


----------



## vadsy

jimsz said:


> I think everyone is free to believe whatever they want, right or wrong. However, I find it odd that one would use a computer, internet connection and these forums (all products of science) to voice such opinions of science. If one is so inclined to be against science, shouldn't they be living in a cave?


fully agree.


----------



## laristotle

jimsz said:


> if someone can substantiate the term 'elitist' when it comes to scientists, I'll be happy to hear it.


The source is The CBC. You _can't_ question that!


----------



## Electraglide

jimsz said:


> Not trying to call anyone out, but if someone can substantiate the term 'elitist' when it comes to scientists, I'll be happy to hear it.


*"Elitism* is the belief or attitude that individuals who form an elite—a select group of *people* with an intrinsic quality, high intellect, wealth, special skills, or experience—are more likely to be constructive to society as a whole, and therefore deserve influence or authority greater than that of others." Could pertain to scientsts.....high intellect, special skills, select group of people, not too sure about wealth but usually have some sort of experience. But then that's just an elite as far as scientists are concerned. The same could be said about guitar players I guess. Personally I prefer to chase women and go to a casino.


----------



## jimsz

Scientists on the whole are simply folks with a degree in their respected fields, they're no different then anyone else with some form of higher education. If that makes them 'elitist' then everyone with higher education is elitist.


----------



## laristotle

How do other guitars feel?


----------



## jimsz

I think the important thing here is that it's our responsibility to do our homework to find out what is good and what is bad science; it's not all about trusting scientists, they're just doing their jobs.

An excellent example of this is the Discovery Institute, a den of jackals who have educated folks on staff, but they also have an agenda to use their education to come up with bad science and deliver it as propaganda in order to fool people into believing they are doing good science. They are the ones who fool and prod those who disagree with science because of their beliefs, they are at the heart of an anti-science agenda even though they claim to do good science.


----------



## Electraglide

jimsz said:


> Scientists on the whole are simply folks with a degree in their respected fields, they're no different then anyone else with some form of higher education. If that makes them 'elitist' then everyone with higher education is elitist.


Sagan, Pasteur, Hawking, etc. are the elite of the scientists and scientists as a whole are a group unto themselves different than say teachers or lawyers. And there are people with "higher education" who think they are elite.


----------



## Steadfastly

jimsz said:


> I think the important thing here is that it's our responsibility to do our homework to find out what is good and what is bad science; it's not all about trusting scientists, they're just doing their jobs.
> 
> .


Scientists have been caught time and again not just making mistakes or being wrong but misleading and outright lying to get their "findings" publicized. The untrained and naive have believed many of these articles and have put their trust in lies and misleading information. The article about the falling trust in science is because of this. 

Your "elitist" argument does the same. It is not the point of the article as you well know.


----------



## jimsz

Steadfastly said:


> Scientists have been caught time and again not just making mistakes or being wrong but misleading and outright lying to get their "findings" publicized. The untrained and naive have believed many of these articles and have put their trust in lies and misleading information. The article about the falling trust in science is because of this.
> 
> Your "elitist" argument does the same. It is not the point of the article as you well know.


That's a valid point, scientists have been caught fabricating their findings for gain. I believe a lot of it is in the pharmaceutical industry. The thing is about science is that it deals in facts and evidence and how the world around us works so eventually anyone who tries fabricating their findings will be exposed because their theories simply don't work. Surveys show it's about 3% of scientists who commit these frauds, "time and again" as you say, but they are being exposed by the other 97%, time and again, who try and do good work.

We don't even really need to look at surveys and stats though, we can look at any profession, from plumbers and carpenters to doctors and lawyers where we'll find some sort of criminal or deceptive element, folks who will lie to gain. Yet, the vast, overwhelming majority of people in any and all of those professions, just like the scientists, are trying to do good, honest work. That's why the argument against scientists is absurd.

I understand what you're saying about people's trust, but again, that goes across the board with all professions.You trust your mechanic to put new brakes on your car properly so you can stop, you trust your doctor to remove your hernia without killing you, you trust your plumber to fix your leaky faucet and not flood your house... the list goes on and on and on with every single profession on the planet. Why single out scientists?

Yes, I read the article, I was particularly interested in this comment...

_"And 30 per cent said they only believed science that aligned with their personal beliefs.

Smol fears Canadians don't understand how science works — that data, not belief, is what counts and that science advances when old beliefs are upended, not shored up by unspoken consensus.


"There are certainly misconceptions," he said. "You can't blame them. It's a jungle of misinformation out there."_

As you can see, the education system has failed that 30%. They certainly didn't do their homework.


----------



## jimsz

Electraglide said:


> Sagan, Pasteur, Hawking, etc. are the elite of the scientists and scientists as a whole are a group unto themselves different than say teachers or lawyers. And there are people with "higher education" who think they are elite.


I would agree that scientists, teachers and lawyers are different groups, but scientists can be teachers as, which is what Sagan and Hawking were, teachers and scientists just like so many other teachers and scientists around the world. Not really such an elite group.

Yeah, I get that there are folks who believe they are elite because they have higher education, small potatoes.

I think though that we focus too much on the small minority of folks that cause the most damage in the world and forget that the vast majority just like to ride bikes, play guitar and hockey and have a good time.


----------



## zontar

High/Deaf said:


> It ain't easy and often scientists run into conflict with each other. Real scientists don't have a problem with this - the whole point of the exercise is to get to the truth, often not an easy place to get to. Sometimes scientists find out they are wrong. A real scientist can handle this.


I find the people who have the biggest problem with this are not actually scientists--but think because they took science courses in high school they know more than they do (& don't realize that some of what they learned is obsolete now).



High/Deaf said:


> Everyone wants to claim science is on their side. It isn't on a side, it's on both sides.


Or more correctly all sides--usually these "debates" are more than two sided.
But valid point.
We all have the same info & evidence, etc.
But who do we present it, use it & interpret it, etc.



High/Deaf said:


> That is not good science. That is politics.


All too often that is the case.


----------



## Robert1950

Neutron Stars 101 - I'd show this to grade 5+. Also clearest and simplest explanation on how the really heavy elements are formed ( anything heavier than iron - gold, platinum, uranium)


----------



## Robert1950

Is it observable, can it be measured, is it repeatable and verifiable enough generate a scientific hypothesis? Can you set up by-the-rules scientific experiments to generate a theory ( a SCIENTIFIC theory - there books on what constitutes this). This is just the basics. There are also hypothesis/theories based on mathematics. There are hypothesis/theories on computer generated models based on well known and established laws of physics if there is just not the technical ability a this time to observe. It took a hundred years before we had technology to observe and confirm that gravitational waves existed as predicted by Einstein's mathematical theories in his General Theory of Relativity.

Can it be verified. Important. This is were the claim of cold fusion broke down. It could not be repeated and further investigation found that there flaws in the experiment and the conclusions draw from it.


----------



## Electraglide

Robert1950 said:


> Neutron Stars 101 - I'd show this to grade 5+. Also clearest and simplest explanation on how the really heavy elements are formed ( anything heavier than iron - gold, platinum, uranium)


Why do I keep waiting for the Eagles and Stephen Fry? And even tho it's heavy subject I figure you could show this to at least grade 2+ especially with the Sailor Moon/Anime reference
note: _I might even order the calander._


----------



## High/Deaf

Robert1950 said:


> Can it be verified. Important. This is were the claim of cold fusion broke down. It could not be repeated and further investigation found that there flaws in the experiment and the conclusions draw from it.


Not to say that cold fusion isn't possible. It just isn't possible with current technology. Science doesn't ever close it's doors and say "Hey, we're finished, let's go have some beers." Some day, we may look back on it like the thought that going faster than Mach I was impossible.

The hoax I believe you are referring to didn't help. But in the true nature of science, it didn't have any legs and was soon uncovered, the emperor had no clothes. Like all science hoaxes (ummm, errrr, climate alarm, ummmm, errrrrr).


----------



## jimsz

The biggest issue with cold fusion is the way energy works, which breaks down into two basic forms; Potential (stored energy) and Kinetic (in motion), the latter being the one that does the work. The concept of temperature is based on how fast particles are moving; slow moving (cold), fast moving (hot). So in order to make cold fusion, they literally have to overcome that barrier of being able to have slow moving particles do the same amount of work as fast moving particles. It kinda violates physical laws.


----------



## Robert1950

My point of using cold fusion as an example, was not whether it is possible or not, but simply as how methods and conclusions can be faulty and could not be repeated.


----------



## Electraglide

Earth was on the other side of the galaxy when dinosaurs reigned


----------



## Robert1950

This is the one astronomical event that is on my bucket list,... see Betelgeuse go boom

Astronomers are wondering whether Orion's shoulder will soon explode | CBC News


----------



## keto

Robert1950 said:


> This is the one astronomical event that is on my bucket list,... see Betelgeuse go boom
> 
> Astronomers are wondering whether Orion's shoulder will soon explode | CBC News


Would love to see that in my lifetime.


----------



## Steadfastly

Robert1950 said:


> This is the one astronomical event that is on my bucket list,... see Betelgeuse go boom
> 
> Astronomers are wondering whether Orion's shoulder will soon explode | CBC News


I didn't even bother looking at the article. I find so much of this is just media hype.


----------



## Electraglide

Robert1950 said:


> This is the one astronomical event that is on my bucket list,... see Betelgeuse go boom
> 
> Astronomers are wondering whether Orion's shoulder will soon explode | CBC News


You might have to wait a while. If it does happen tomorrow then I'll have to watch it on line.....kinda overcast and foggy here.


----------



## Robert1950

Steadfastly said:


> I didn't even bother looking at the article. I find so much of this is just media hype.


It is fucking science, not fucking hype.  Noticeable dips in luminosity in a relatively short period time of a star in the late red giant phase is one of the signs of the failing balance between nuclear fusion and the forces of gravity. In astronomical terms that could mean 2 weeks or 2000 years or more. But it will happen. Hundred of years of observation by many thousands of astronomers and astrophysicists have to to good understanding of this process


----------



## High/Deaf

OMFG!

The science of a star's lifecyle is media hype. But a good 'deal of the day' on a cheap guitar in some US chain store isn't. That's a world I'm glad I don't live in.


----------



## Electraglide

High/Deaf said:


> OMFG!
> 
> The science of a star's lifecyle is media hype. But a good 'deal of the day' on a cheap guitar in some US chain store isn't. That's a world I'm glad I don't live in.


Go easy, isn't it supposed to be someones birthday today.....or at least the day it's celebrated?


----------



## Lincoln

Robert1950 said:


> This is the one astronomical event that is on my bucket list,... see Betelgeuse go boom
> 
> Astronomers are wondering whether Orion's shoulder will soon explode | CBC News


Maybe it's all ready happened and the light just hasn't reached us yet


----------



## Dorian2

To whom it may apply to.

The Denial of Reality

You're welcome,

A concerned Guitars Canada poster


----------



## jimsz

Steadfastly said:


> I didn't even bother looking at the article. I find so much of this is just media hype.


Think of it this way, we puny humans consider the size of Earth pretty big, but it's just a small dot compared to our Sun. Ironically, the size of our Sun is a small dot compared to the size of Betelgeuse, the star in question in that article. Betelgeuse is about 1.2 billion kilometers across. The ISS orbits earth in about 90 minutes at a speed of 27,600 kph, which is pretty darn fast, but if the ISS were to orbit Betelgeuse, it would take roughly 5 years, that's how huge the star. 

And, this star is set to explode because its at the end of it's life. The event will be observed on Earth, it will look like a full moon at night and will be seen even in daylight. It will be an event that will stop the world's population in their tracks while it's occurring. It might even change the way people think, if we're lucky.


----------



## Steadfastly

jimsz said:


> Think of it this way, we puny humans consider the size of Earth pretty big, but it's just a small dot compared to our Sun. Ironically, the size of our Sun is a small dot compared to the size of Betelgeuse, the star in question in that article. Betelgeuse is about 1.2 billion kilometers across. The ISS orbits earth in about 90 minutes at a speed of 27,600 kph, which is pretty darn fast, but if the ISS were to orbit Betelgeuse, it would take roughly 5 years, that's how huge the star.
> 
> And, this star is set to explode because its at the end of it's life. The event will be observed on Earth, it will look like a full moon at night and will be seen even in daylight. It will be an event that will stop the world's population in their tracks while it's occurring. It might even change the way people think, if we're lucky.


Time will tell. My post was not meant to poo poo on those who are interested in these things and it may happen. What I meant is that the media grab onto any of these stories about something that has a "big band" interest. Often the chances of the hype they report these things with never happen or are a lot less catastrophic than what they report. The media is a business and often what they report is to grab your attention. So, my post was more about the media than astronomers and astronomy. Personally, I find the heavens very, very awesome. I don't thing there are words to describe their magnificence..


----------



## Robert1950

Dorian2 said:


> To whom it may apply to.
> The Denial of Reality
> You're welcome, A concerned Guitars Canada poster


----------



## vadsy

Steadfastly said:


> Time will tell. My post was not meant to poo poo on those who are interested in these things and it may happen. What I meant is that the media grab onto any of these stories about something that has a "big band" interest. Often the chances of the hype they report these things with never happen or are a lot less catastrophic than what they report. The media is a business and often what they report is to grab your attention. So, my post was more about the media than astronomers and astronomy. Personally, I find the heavens very, very awesome. I don't thing there are words to describe their magnificence..


just a quick glance over this thread and it seems you have a significant amount of posts that 'poo poo' on those interested. don't say you don't. It's disappointing to see someone as high on their own morals as you while constantly judging those all around you not live by the principles you preach


----------



## Dorian2

Well said


----------



## boyscout

The easily-spotted constellation Orion (The Hunter) may be about to change. The red star Betelgeuse that represents the hunter's right or left shoulder (depending on interpretation) has dimmed noticeably during the month of December, and might be about to explode into a supernova.

A star is behaving strangely and could be about to explode into a supernova


----------



## Lincoln

That would be great, we're even in the right time of the year to see it happen!


----------



## Electraglide

boyscout said:


> The easily-spotted constellation Orion (The Hunter) may be about to change. The red star Betelgeuse that represents the hunter's right or left shoulder (depending on interpretation) has dimmed noticeably during the month of December, and might be about to explode into a supernova.
> 
> A star is behaving strangely and could be about to explode into a supernova


That sounds familiar.


----------



## Steadfastly

boyscout said:


> The easily-spotted constellation Orion (The Hunter) may be about to change. The red star Betelgeuse that represents the hunter's right or left shoulder (depending on interpretation) has dimmed noticeably during the month of December, and might be about to explode into a supernova.
> 
> A star is behaving strangely and could be about to explode into a supernova


So, say it explodes today, how many years ago would that have happened? I could figure it out but you likely already know so you can save me the time.


----------



## boyscout

Steadfastly said:


> So, say it explodes today, how many years ago would that have happened? I could figure it out but you likely already know so you can save me the time.


The linked article says that it's 700 light years away and that makes it relatively "close" to us as these things go. Do you remember where you were 700 years ago?


----------



## Lincoln

Steadfastly said:


> So, say it explodes today, how many years ago would that have happened? I could figure it out but you likely already know so you can save me the time.


Betelgeuse is 642 light years away from earth. If we see it start to explode tonight, then we know it actually happened 642 years ago. It will be a good show though. I hope we do see it happen in our life time. Orion has always been my favorite constellation.

My son will never know how close he came to being named Orion. B#(*


----------



## Steadfastly

Lincoln said:


> Betelgeuse is 642 light years away from earth. If we see it start to explode tonight, then we know it actually happened 642 years ago. It will be a good show though. I hope we do see it happen in our life time. Orion has always been my favorite constellation.
> 
> My son will never know how close he came to being named Orion. B#(*


Muchas gracias.


----------



## oldjoat

I was a Monty P fan ... one of my kids got named after a character in the rabbit scene. (holy grail)

he's forgiven me


----------



## laristotle

Killer?


----------



## oldjoat

"Tim" the wizard


----------



## Electraglide

Steadfastly said:


> So, say it explodes today, how many years ago would that have happened? I could figure it out but you likely already know so you can save me the time.


If it explodes today then it happens today and not years ago.


----------



## Electraglide

oldjoat said:


> I was a Monty P fan ... one of my kids got named after a character in the rabbit scene. (holy grail)
> 
> he's forgiven me


My son's second name was almost Seven or Coke. His first name is Ryan. The nurse didn't get it.


----------



## Dorian2

Steadfastly said:


> I could figure it out but you likely already know so you can save me the time.


Must you insist Steadly? 

@oldjoat Do some call him.....Tim?


----------



## Electraglide

oldjoat said:


> I was a Monty P fan ... one of my kids got named after a character in the rabbit scene. (holy grail)
> 
> he's forgiven me


Could have been Antiocke or Maynard I guess.




tho Brother or Bubba comes to mind too.


----------



## oldjoat

Dorian2 said:


> @oldjoat Do some call him.....Tim?


sometimes ... but his friends do the "wizard" bit when he works on their vehicles ...

and no he doesn't do rabbits ( just mk2 and up )


----------



## Dorian2

oldjoat said:


> sometimes ... but his friends do the "wizard" bit when he works on their vehicles ...
> 
> and no he doesn't do rabbits ( just mk2 and up )


When I posted I didn't realize you'd already answered the question. That's my favorite Monty movie of them all. Big fan here. Parents started me on that route with Benny Hill.


----------



## oldjoat




----------



## boyscout

Lincoln said:


> Betelgeuse is 642 light years away from earth. If we see it start to explode tonight, then we know it actually happened 642 years ago.


The suspense is killing me.


----------



## laristotle

Aaand .. it'll be blamed on man made climate change.


----------



## Lincoln

I think the last super nova visible from earth was in the year 1610, so even with the countless billions of stars in our galaxy.......it doesn't happen all that often.


----------



## oldjoat

maybe a really big and close one , 2000 years ago ? around dec 25 ?


----------



## Lincoln

oldjoat said:


> maybe a really big and close one , 2000 years ago ? around dec 25 ?


very likely there was.


----------



## Electraglide

oldjoat said:


> maybe a really big and close one , 2000 years ago ? around dec 25 ?


I didn't know there was a "bright star" for *Saturnalia*.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Steadfastly

*The best space images of 2019*

*The best space images of 2019*


----------



## Robert1950

How Stars Die - Supernovas and Such - 18 minutes. This guy explains this as well as anyone


----------



## Robert1950

A well done explanation of neutron stars, pulsars and magnetars (variations on the same thing really) 17 min.


----------



## Electraglide

A little closer to home, they missed.
No satellite crash: 2 pieces of space junk whiz safely by each other over Pittsburgh | Live Science


----------



## laristotle

Scientists release highest-definition images ever of the sun's molten surface

_According to a press release, each of the “cells” that cover the entire surface of the sun are about the size of Texas (just under 700,000 square kilometres), and are caused due to “violent motions” that occur when heat bubbles up from the sun’s core to its surface. The plasma rises in these cells, and sinks back underneath the surface as they cool off, forming the darker lines surrounding the yellow centres seen in the pictures._


----------



## Robert1950

How Gold and other heavy elements may be formed......


----------



## Robert1950

Betelgeuse getting weirder.

New photo of a star that people hope will explode shows it fading and changing shape | CBC News


----------



## Milkman

Astronomers Have Recorded the Biggest Explosion Ever Seen in the Universe - Universe Today


----------



## Robert1950

Andromeda and Milky Way galaxies moving towards each other. What might happen.......


----------



## Robert1950

Our own black hole - 27,600 light years away. Sagittarius A star


----------



## Lincoln

I thought this was a cool perspective


----------



## Robert1950

Elusive Intermediate Sized lack Hole - Best evidence found so far.

Hungry black hole may be cosmic 'missing link'


----------



## Robert1950

Event Horizon Telescope (It took the picture of the black hole last) takes a clearer photo of a quasar 

Twisting jet observed at supermassive black hole


----------



## Robert1950

Saturn's Rings may only 100M years old and they are slowly disappearing,...


----------



## Electraglide

Close
Newfound house-sized asteroid, 2020 GH2, flies past Earth today


----------



## cdntac

Now that spring is here I suppose I really should go out to my observatory, clean it up and see if everything is working correctly.


----------



## Milkman

laristotle said:


> Scientists release highest-definition images ever of the sun's molten surface
> 
> _According to a press release, each of the “cells” that cover the entire surface of the sun are about the size of Texas (just under 700,000 square kilometres), and are caused due to “violent motions” that occur when heat bubbles up from the sun’s core to its surface. The plasma rises in these cells, and sinks back underneath the surface as they cool off, forming the darker lines surrounding the yellow centres seen in the pictures._



Looks hot.

Stay tuned for my next scientific observation.


----------



## Lincoln

Electraglide said:


> Close
> Newfound house-sized asteroid, 2020 GH2, flies past Earth today


It would be cool to watch an asteroid of that size hit the"full moon".


----------



## Electraglide

There's some interesting things in here. Never heard of 'white holes' before. Maybe black holes are one end of a worm hole and white holes are the other.
The most bizarre phenomena science still can’t explain


----------



## Robert1950

After 30 years, Hubble still knows how to knows how to *WOW* us

Hubble delivers stunning 30th birthday picture


----------



## oldjoat

Lincoln said:


> It would be cool to watch an asteroid of that size hit the"full moon".


cool but I'd hate to experience the effects as pieces eventually hit earth , the tides change and our climate turns a lot colder from all the debris orbiting the earth each day .

note to self ... read new found ... not newfoundland ... so the space rock would be a lot smaller , whew! 

sorry guys .... my bad .


----------



## Electraglide

oldjoat said:


> cool but I'd hate to experience the effects as pieces eventually hit earth , the tides change and our climate turns a lot colder from all the debris orbiting the earth each day .


No big deal.

Asteroid IMPACT: Watch the incredible moment a space rock hits the Moon at 38,000MPH
Chelyabinsk meteor - Wikipedia


----------



## leftysg

Say, if some government leader thought that hurricanes could be limited by nuking them, perhaps global warming could be halted by blowing up chunks off the moon, causing them to orbit in a solar reducing shield around the earth, dropping the planet's temperature. I've got the plot line for the next Bond or Austin Power's flick!


----------



## Electraglide

This one's just a bit bigger than a house.
Giant asteroid flying by Earth next week looks like it's wearing a face mask


----------



## laristotle

Electraglide said:


> This one's just a bit bigger than a house.
> Giant asteroid flying by Earth next week looks like it's wearing a face mask


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> View attachment 307326


some say it looks like it's wearing a mask. I figure it looks more like a boob.


----------



## laristotle

Electraglide said:


> I figure it looks more like a boob


a new constellation in the making?


----------



## Electraglide

Maybe Alice just kept on eating.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Electraglide

(I've been in here for too long so I'm going out now.)


----------



## cdntac

laristotle said:


> View attachment 307346


You are so on somebody’s special ignore list now. Lol.


----------



## leftysg

Electraglide said:


> some say it looks like it's wearing a mask. I figure it looks more like a boob.


Can I be a fly on the wall the next time you take the Rorschach test.


----------



## laristotle

leftysg said:


> Can I be a fly on the wall the next time you take the Rorschach test.


You won't miss much. Everything looks like a boob or a carburetor off of a '53 panhead.


----------



## Electraglide

leftysg said:


> Can I be a fly on the wall the next time you take the Rorschach test.


You can hand them to me and which is more interesting, a mask or a boob.
This is another NE asteroid.....433 Eros.








It doesn't come as close as 1998 OR2 will this coming week but it's a lot bigger. About 16 times as big. Did you know that Eros spelled backwards is sore?


----------



## leftysg

Electraglide said:


> You can hand them to me and which is more interesting, a mask or a boob.
> This is another NE asteroid.....433 Eros.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't come as close as 1998 OR2 will this coming week but it's a lot bigger. About 16 times as big. Did you know that Eros spelled backwards is sore?


And his Roman counterpart Cupid, which rearranged leaves dicup. Which almost brings us full circle to the original two choices.


----------



## Stephenlouis

Here is one I took of the Sun at the start of the solar eclipse, I watched the whole thing, it was awesome. This is taken through my scope with an adaptor and sun filter, you can see a few sunspots too in this image. I love doing astrophotography, but have not done much in some time.


----------



## cdntac

Stephenlouis said:


> View attachment 309196
> Here is one I took of the Sun at the start of the solar eclipse, I watched the whole thing, it was awesome. This is taken through my scope with an adaptor and sun filter, you can see a few sunspots too in this image. I love doing astrophotography, but have not done much in some time.


Nice! I drove to Tennessee to watch the 2017 solar eclipse. In the early 90s when I got into astronomy I remember thinking how 2017 seemed so far away. Lol.

I looked at the Sun the other day — totally devoid of sunspots.


----------



## Electraglide

Maybe they are almost here.
Powerful radio signal detected within our own galaxy for 1st time


----------



## zontar

Electraglide said:


> Maybe they are almost here.
> Powerful radio signal detected within our own galaxy for 1st time


If they look like this, run away:


----------



## Electraglide

I would say more if they look like this.


----------



## zontar

Electraglide said:


> I would say more if they look like this.


But very few actually see him as he works behind the scenes--so little warning.
Thos other guys act like our friends


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Lincoln

laristotle said:


>


Great name for a group!


----------



## greco

I am becoming interested in trying to see some of the planets through a telescope and spent quite some time today watching YT videos and looking at websites about telescopes. We are fortunate that there is a telescope store locally that appears to be held in reasonably high regard. KW Telescope
We also have a local club.

I am wondering about the thoughts of the forum members here regarding the minimal amount I should consider investing in a telescope and mount. I am typically very happy with simple, functional gear (e.g., I have two Epiphone 339 style guitars and a small SS amp).

Thanks


----------



## butterknucket




----------



## Hammerhands

I've read a good pair of binoculars work.

Someone bought me a Celestron SkyScout many years ago. I'll have to try it again. You point it at a star and it tells you what star it is, maybe some information. I felt very strange standing about at night holding something that looks like a video camera.

I have a book somewhere, I think it is National Geographic's Backyard Guide to the Night Sky. I wanted to figure out where the moon ought to be, where to find planets. The answer is on the ecliptic [which is high at night in the winter and low at night in the summer?].


----------



## boyscout

greco said:


> I am wondering about the thoughts of the forum members here regarding the minimal amount I should consider investing in a telescope and mount. I am typically very happy with simple, functional gear (e.g., I have two Epiphone 339 style guitars and a small SS amp). Thanks


That Meade for $25K looks pretty tasty. 

I've long had the same interest but not taken it any further than you have, and know nothing. Just thought I'd tell you that I went years ago to a much-touted open house event at the Dunlap Observatory in Richmond Hill, with some of Toronto's reputedly most-respected amateurs participating offering their own equipment for use, and quite a few of them had the simple and inexpensive Dobsonian telescopes. Maybe they just left the $25K Meades at home, but they showed me that one can see interesting things without spending a lot.

My needs are simple: I want to see the rings of Saturn for myself before I die. I think they may be a long-running hoax made up by a science fiction illustrator.


----------



## boyscout

Hammerhands said:


> I've read a good pair of binoculars work.
> 
> Someone bought me a Celestron SkyScout many years ago. I'll have to try it again. You point it at a star and it tells you what star it is, maybe some information. I felt very strange standing about at night holding something that looks like a video camera.
> 
> I have a book somewhere, I think it is National Geographic's Backyard Guide to the Night Sky. I wanted to figure out where the moon ought to be, where to find planets. The answer is on the ecliptic [which is high at night in the winter and low at night in the summer?].


In the iOS (Apple) world, and probably also the Android world, there are a number of apps that do the identification / mapping thing pretty well, and of course have even more information at hand than that SkyScout thing that you (and I) have. The apps do a better job of illustrating more of the night sky. Aside from the neighbor-seeing-you-videoing-at-night thing, the SkyScout lost favor with me because it relied too much on finding the right small dot in the sky without helpful context references.


----------



## cdntac

greco said:


> I am becoming interested in trying to see some of the planets through a telescope and spent quite some time today watching YT videos and looking at websites about telescopes. We are fortunate that there is a telescope store locally that appears to be held in reasonably high regard. KW Telescope
> We also have a local club.
> 
> I am wondering about the thoughts of the forum members here regarding the minimal amount I should consider investing in a telescope and mount. I am typically very happy with simple, functional gear (e.g., I have two Epiphone 339 style guitars and a small SS amp).
> 
> Thanks


I used to work for an astronomy magazine. 

The best advice I can give you is to buy a book called NightWatch. Written by a Terence Dickinson, it’s pretty much the best book to introduce you to astronomy. Though some of the equipment models mentioned in it will now be outdated, it will still provide you with the basics you need to learn about observing and gear. 

I don’t know if KW Telescope still has the same owner as it did a few years back but it certainly had — and I assume still does — an excellent reputation. 

The best advice I can give in regards to a telescope is to go to a local astronomy club’s observing night. There you can look through people’s telescopes and see what styles appeal best to you (size, electronics, portability, etc). 

However, that’s impossible to do right now. 

Take a look at what they have at KW. Don’t make an impulse buy. Don’t buy a cheap scope at Canadian Tire or Wal-Mart. That will just be an exercise in frustration. 

At minimum, to get a decent beginner’s scope, look to spend about $500. Keep in mind you’ll need some accessories like a red flashlight and a star chart (or an app). 

Once you settle in on what style of scope you’d like, many can be found on the second-hand market.


----------



## boyscout

cdntac said:


> The best advice I can give you is to buy a book called NightWatch. Written by a Terence Dickinson, it’s pretty much the best book to introduce you to astronomy. Though some of the equipment models mentioned in it will now be outdated, it will still provide you with the basics you need to learn about observing and gear.


NightWatch: A Practical Guide to Viewing the Universe: Dickinson, Terence, Ferris, Timothy, Schaller, Adolf: 9781554071470: Books - Amazon.ca


----------



## cdntac

Hammerhands said:


> I've read a good pair of binoculars work.
> 
> Someone bought me a Celestron SkyScout many years ago. I'll have to try it again. You point it at a star and it tells you what star it is, maybe some information. I felt very strange standing about at night holding something that looks like a video camera.
> 
> I have a book somewhere, I think it is National Geographic's Backyard Guide to the Night Sky. I wanted to figure out where the moon ought to be, where to find planets. The answer is on the ecliptic [which is high at night in the winter and low at night in the summer?].


I think I wrote a review on the SkyScout about 10 years ago. Or maybe I just had it here as a sample. I forget! Lol. 

I’ll have to go through a bunch of old magazines. Lol. 

It sounds like a good idea but it’s kind of gimicky. Pointing it at a star and then finding its name? Big deal. 

If you have a pair of binos you can see quite a bit — some open star clusters, the Andromeda Galaxy (if you’re under dark skies), double stars, dozens of craters in the Moon and four of Jupiter’s moons.


----------



## cdntac

boyscout said:


> https://www.amazon.ca/NightWatch-Pr..._title_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1588979514&sr=8-2



That’s it!


----------



## greco

Thanks for all the comments, suggestion, information, etc. 
I'll be taking my time with this for sure. Fortunately, I live close to the edge of the city and can drive fairly quickly away from the "light pollution" (? correct term) and into the rural farming area.


----------



## Electraglide

greco said:


> I am becoming interested in trying to see some of the planets through a telescope and spent quite some time today watching YT videos and looking at websites about telescopes. We are fortunate that there is a telescope store locally that appears to be held in reasonably high regard. KW Telescope
> We also have a local club.
> 
> I am wondering about the thoughts of the forum members here regarding the minimal amount I should consider investing in a telescope and mount. I am typically very happy with simple, functional gear (e.g., I have two Epiphone 339 style guitars and a small SS amp).
> 
> Thanks


Do you just want to look and at what range or do you also want to take pics and vids.? If you just want to see the solar system and maybe a couple of the closer stars then a good pair of binocs will do. On the other hand, if I was out of the city and going to get another telescope I'd start looking at this and go from there.
https://www.amazon.com/Celestron-NexStar-8-SE-Telescope/dp/B000GUFOC8


----------



## greco

Electraglide said:


> Do you just want to look and at what range or do you also want to take pics and vids.? If you just want to see the solar system and maybe a couple of the closer stars then a good pair of binocs will do. On the other hand, if I was out of the city and going to get another telescope I'd start looking at this and go from there.
> https://www.amazon.com/Celestron-NexStar-8-SE-Telescope/dp/B000GUFOC8


I'd like to look at the planets for starters. No pics or vids at this point in time. My budget for this is about $500.00 CDN.


----------



## cdntac

greco said:


> I'd like to look at the planets for starters. No pics or vids at this point in time. My budget for this is about $500.00 CDN.


Keep in mind that the planets where detail can be seen are Jupiter and Saturn with Mars about every two years (due to its orbit and size). And the detail that is seen can sometimes be underwhelming to some (tho not to me! Lol ). What you see in photos isn’t what you’re going to see through an eyepiece.

Venus can currently be seen at dusk (looks like a bright “star” high in the western sky after sunset) but you’re not going to see any detail on it even with a telescope (though you’ll see it in phases like the Moon as it orbits the Sun).

Jupiter and Saturn aren’t currently well placed for observing. They’re both low in the southern sky at dusk. It’ll be a few months before they’re seen in the early night sky, Mars is also currently found low in the morning southern sky. It’ll be closest to Earth in about 5 months.

Saturn is definitely the biggest “wow!” object to look at. I was looking at it last week at 180x magnification through a 12.5” scope and even though the seeing wasn’t great it was still a fantastic view.

You’ll be amazed at what the Moon looks like in a telescope too so don’t hesitate to look at it.

I wonder if KW-Telescope rents scopes? That could be a good way to proceed.


----------



## Lincoln

Finding dark sky is the hardest part. We forget just how wonderful the sky is because we never see it anymore. Or at least most of us us never see a dark sky. I had a 6" Newtonian reflector years ago. Even back then, I had to drive about an hour out to find dark sky. No computer tracking back then either. 
A solar filter is fun. Looking at the sun through a telescope is very cool.


----------



## greco

cdntac said:


> Keep in mind that the planets where detail can be seen are Jupiter and Saturn with Mars about every two years (due to its orbit and size). And the detail that is seen can sometimes be underwhelming to some (tho not to me! Lol ). What you see in photos isn’t what you’re going to see through an eyepiece.
> 
> Venus can currently be seen at dusk (looks like a bright “star” high in the western sky after sunset) but you’re not going to see any detail on it even with a telescope (though you’ll see it in phases like the Moon as it orbits the Sun).
> 
> Jupiter and Saturn aren’t currently well placed for observing. They’re both low in the southern sky at dusk. It’ll be a few months before they’re seen in the early night sky, Mars is also currently found low in the morning southern sky. It’ll be closest to Earth in about 5 months.
> 
> Saturn is definitely the biggest “wow!” object to look at. I was looking at it last week at 180x magnification through a 12.5” scope and even though the seeing wasn’t great it was still a fantastic view.
> 
> You’ll be amazed at what the Moon looks like in a telescope too so don’t hesitate to look at it.
> 
> I wonder if KW-Telescope rents scopes? That could be a good way to proceed.


Thanks for all of this...much appreciated. We had a full moon last night and it was easy to see a fair amount of detail with the "naked" eye. I am looking out the window at Venus as I'm typing this as it is only at about 11 degrees. It would be totally worth all of the waiting, etc to see Saturn...even just once...LOL

I haven't seen anything about renting on the KWTelescope website, but there are telescopes on the local Kijiji which surprised me.
Telescope Meade 6in F/8 Pier Mounted with Accessories (REDUCED) | Hobbies & Crafts | Brantford | Kijiji

appears to be the same seller..
Telescope 120mm Refractor with Accessories | Hobbies & Crafts | Brantford | Kijiji


----------



## cdntac

The 6” Meade reflector on the mount may be a good deal but without being able to see it firsthand it’s difficult to say. 

For example, is the primary mirror in good shape? Is it the scope collimated (meaning are the mirrors aligned with each other tho that’s easily done yourself once you learn how)? Does the mount still work correctly? 

The refractor would be a good general purpose scope but as with the other one you’d have to make sure it’s in good working order. The description makes it sound like it doesn’t have a tracking motor which is kind of odd for that mount.

It’s like buying a used car from someone without knowing anything about cars — it’s really easy to make a mis-informed buy. 

Take notice of one thing both have in common — their size. That Meade mount is going to be heavy. And the refractor on a mount is pretty big. 

And too big creates problems. Before I had an observatory there were many times where I’d look outside and think “Nah...I really don’t feel like lugging all that heavy gear outside...”. 

I’m not saying that just buying a scope and learning yourself is the wrong way to go. But it is a lot easier if you’re able to get with a group and learn from others. 

When I first started it was because my wife bought me a cheap 60mm scope on a whim from Canadian Tire for Xmas. Within 6 weeks I had traded it in on a 4 1/2” scope and a few months later upgraded to a 10” scope. 

I learned how to use them all myself though did join a few observing groups.

I suppose it’s analogous to buying a guitar. You can buy one but it doesn’t mean you’ll be able to play anything immediately. There’s a bit of a learning curve and you have to be patient.


----------



## Electraglide

greco said:


> I'd like to look at the planets for starters. No pics or vids at this point in time. My budget for this is about $500.00 CDN.


Celestron and other's make some good telescopes that are within your budget.


----------



## Electraglide

Years back I was riding back from the motorcycle drags at Ashcroft and stopped for the night at Juniper Beach park out of Savona. There was a family from Alaska there with a few telescopes set up to watch Saturn and one of the meteor showers. Not too sure about the power of the telescopes but you could make out Saturn's rings quite clearly. Kinda cool looking at the stars, planets and meteors while the wildlife, river and trains made background noises.


----------



## greco

cdntac said:


> But it is a lot easier if you’re able to get with a group and learn from others.


Thanks to all for the very helpful information.

I intend to do as you say and go to a meeting of the local club... KW RASC 
@Robert1950 Sorry for the huge derail of your thread.


----------



## cdntac

greco said:


> Thanks to all for the very helpful information.
> 
> I intend to do as you say and go to a meeting of the local club... KW RASC
> @Robert1950 Sorry for the huge derail of your thread.


Did you visit KW Telescope yet? 

This morning’s seeing was once again kinda mediocre (which doesn’t help when Jupiter and Saturn are so low in the ecliptic) but there was still the occasional decent glimpse of both the giant planets during moments of somewhat stable air.


----------



## greco

cdntac said:


> Did you visit KW Telescope yet?


K-W Telescope is closed until further notice. However, I have been looking at their website, reading and watching YT videos.


----------



## laristotle

The Earth’s magnetic field is weakening and scientists don’t know why


----------



## bolero

laristotle said:


> The Earth’s magnetic field is weakening and scientists don’t know why


 it's gotta be that new 5G stuff!


----------



## Milkman

Hope this works


----------



## Milkman

Wow, very exciting!!

Anyone else watching?

Loading propellant!!


----------



## Milkman

and scrubbed.

Try again Saturday.


----------



## Budda

'True embarrassment' of astronomy resolved as missing matter is found


----------



## colchar

Milkman said:


> and scrubbed.
> 
> Try again Saturday.



So the rocket can go into space, but can't fly through some clouds?


----------



## colchar

laristotle said:


> The Earth’s magnetic field is weakening and scientists don’t know why



Sure they do, the magnetic poles are shifting. When they are stable the shield is thicker, when they are moving around it is thinner. Suzuki did a show on this a few years ago.


----------



## laristotle

colchar said:


> So the rocket can go into space, but can't fly through some clouds?


Bbut .. it was just waxed and polished.


----------



## Electraglide

colchar said:


> So the rocket can go into space, but can't fly through some clouds?


It’s an Elon Musk project I think so one of the windows might crack.


----------



## laristotle

Proxima b, a confirmed — potentially habitable — Earth-sized planet, is a mere 4.2 light years away

_At 1.17 Earth masses and in the habitable zone, scientists says it's orbiting the nearest star to our sun_


----------



## boyscout

Whaaaat?!!! No sleep for me tonight.

A football field-sized asteroid just passed by the earth and no one noticed


----------



## Stephenlouis

So much radiation from these stars, I wonder if life can bind long enough to get a foot hold, I guess in deep seas?


laristotle said:


> Proxima b, a confirmed — potentially habitable — Earth-sized planet, is a mere 4.2 light years away
> 
> _At 1.17 Earth masses and in the habitable zone, scientists says it's orbiting the nearest star to our sun_


----------



## Stephenlouis

boyscout said:


> Whaaaat?!!! No sleep for me tonight.
> 
> A football field-sized asteroid just passed by the earth and no one noticed



Here you can put in your numbers and see cause and effect 

Earth Impact Effects Program


----------



## laristotle

Armageddon still awaits if Mayan calendar theory proves correct

_According to a conspiracy theory on Twitter, the reading of the Mayan calendar was wrong.

And while the world didn’t end on Dec. 21, 2012, the date originally pegged by calendar readers, Mayan doomsday is some time this week or next.

“Following the Julian Calendar, we are technically in 2012,” scientist Paolo Tagaloguin tweeted last week, according to the Sun. “The number of days lost in a year due to the shift into Gregorian Calendar is 11 days … For 268 years using the Gregorian Calendar (1752-2020) times 11 days = 2,948 days. 2,948 days / 365 days (per year) = 8 years.”

The series of tweets has since been deleted.

If Tagaloguin is correct, when adding up all the missed days, the Mayan doomsday date is this week._


----------



## Milkman

Electraglide said:


> It’s an Elon Musk project I think so one of the windows might crack.



Successful launch. 1st time Americans have been launched in space in 9 years without having to hitch a ride and pay a fare.

Elon did just fine.


----------



## keto

laristotle said:


> Armageddon still awaits if Mayan calendar theory proves correct
> 
> _According to a conspiracy theory on Twitter, the reading of the Mayan calendar was wrong.
> 
> And while the world didn’t end on Dec. 21, 2012, the date originally pegged by calendar readers, Mayan doomsday is some time this week or next.
> 
> “Following the Julian Calendar, we are technically in 2012,” scientist Paolo Tagaloguin tweeted last week, according to the Sun. “The number of days lost in a year due to the shift into Gregorian Calendar is 11 days … For 268 years using the Gregorian Calendar (1752-2020) times 11 days = 2,948 days. 2,948 days / 365 days (per year) = 8 years.”
> 
> The series of tweets has since been deleted.
> 
> If Tagaloguin is correct, when adding up all the missed days, the Mayan doomsday date is this week._


They talked about this on local radio. Probably deleted because it's not 11 days a year, it's 8 days IN TOTAL from the beginning to now.


----------



## Electraglide

Milkman said:


> Successful launch. 1st time Americans have been launched in space in 9 years without having to hitch a ride and pay a fare.
> 
> Elon did just fine.


 Not too sure about that so you could say the 'mericans paid for their ride 'cause gas, ass or grass.....nobody rides free and since it's not a NASA rocket assembly I guess they hitched that ride or are they SpaceX employees? That being said I'm more interested in the Mars launch in July/Aug. I don't care who does it but hopefully I get to see a manned landing on Mars.....and them getting back. Don't know how far along Starship is or if their 2024 date is still viable.




is where it began.


----------



## zontar

Sputnik?


----------



## Electraglide

Doesn't seem to be this.




but maybe this.


----------



## zontar

I was going to post Telstar as well, but got sidetracked.


----------



## boyscout

No surprise here. Accusations of collusion and price-fixing within the amateur astronomy telescope market have led to formal lawsuits. 

Meade has already declared bankruptcy after losing in a $50 million case of anti-competitive practices; more fallout may come from still-pending cases.

Better telescope prices in the future, or less choice at still-inflated prices?

Amateur astronomers set sights on alleged telescope price-fixing conspiracy | CBC News


----------



## laristotle




----------



## greco

laristotle said:


> View attachment 318226


Thanks for my laugh for the day!


----------



## Lincoln

I found this youtube on a new sun orbiter very interesting. I can see the makings of a warp drive in there someplace.

Parker Solar Orbiter


----------



## bolero

that's good news. I can't wait to get off this planet


----------



## laristotle

bolero said:


> that's good news. I can't wait to get off this planet


Improbability Drive?


----------



## Electraglide

__





NASA releases cosmic treasure trove that reveals the 'invisible' universe






www.msn.com


----------



## Electraglide

For years it's been speculated that if life in some form will be found in the solar system it will be found on Venus. Maybe they are right.




__





Astronomers may have found hints of life in clouds of Venus






www.msn.com


----------



## laristotle

Any signal up here? Nokia to build mobile network on moon


HELSINKI — Struggling to get a phone signal at home on planet Earth? Perhaps you’ll have better luck on the moon.




torontosun.com


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> Any signal up here? Nokia to build mobile network on moon
> 
> 
> HELSINKI — Struggling to get a phone signal at home on planet Earth? Perhaps you’ll have better luck on the moon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> torontosun.com


Pretty soon you won't be able to go anywhere that the wife or your boss won't be able to call you. Or the guys from CRA who are going to deport you after the police arrest you.


----------



## laristotle

At least won't have to deal with duct cleaning services. Or when they do contact you, 'sure, come on up'.


----------



## Budda

Elon Musk says he's privatizing Mars and making the laws.

That is bad.


----------



## Electraglide

Budda said:


> Elon Musk says he's privatizing Mars and making the laws.
> 
> That is bad.


No worries, Elon just doesn't grok Mars and the Martians.


----------



## Robert1950

*Arecibo Observatory telescope finally collapses after two cables snap since last August









Puerto Rico: Iconic Arecibo Observatory telescope collapses


The telescope was used in decades of astronomical discoveries and as a backdrop for Hollywood films.



www.bbc.com




*


----------



## Electraglide

Robert1950 said:


> *Arecibo Observatory telescope finally collapses after two cables snap since last August
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Puerto Rico: Iconic Arecibo Observatory telescope collapses
> 
> 
> The telescope was used in decades of astronomical discoveries and as a backdrop for Hollywood films.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


To a certain extent that's sad. A lot of things were discovered by it.


----------



## Robert1950

Chinese Robotic Moon Mission to return to earth with lunar rock and dust samples









China's Chang'e-5 Moon mission probe touches down


The robotic Chang'e-5 probe makes a picture-perfect soft landing on the lunar nearside.



www.bbc.com


----------



## Robert1950

Gaia galaxy mapping satellite has been a regular productivity machine...









Gaia 'discovery machine' updates star catalogue


The world's most productive astronomical facility releases its third big tranche of sky data.



www.bbc.com


----------



## laristotle

Former Israeli space security chief says aliens exist, humanity not ready


This "Galactic Federation" has supposedly been in contact with Israel and the US for years, but are keeping themselves a secret to prevent hysteria until humanity is ready.




www.jpost.com


----------



## leftysg

laristotle said:


> Former Israeli space security chief says aliens exist, humanity not ready
> 
> 
> This "Galactic Federation" has supposedly been in contact with Israel and the US for years, but are keeping themselves a secret to prevent hysteria until humanity is ready.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.jpost.com


 Perhaps by 2112 we will be "ready"...for them to assume control. Time for someone to hide a guitar near a waterfall in an underground cave.


----------



## laristotle

leftysg said:


> Time for someone to hide a guitar near a waterfall in an underground cave.


There's a thread on it's own.
Which guitar? Something that will withstand the ravages of time waiting to be unearthed.


----------



## leftysg

laristotle said:


> There's a thread on it's own.
> Which guitar? Something that will withstand the ravages of time waiting to be unearthed.


Sounded acoustic to me...maybe something with a carbon fibre top, like a Rain Song. I suppose a resonator, but not sure it would capture the vibe as well. If the music self discovery was a fail, maybe it could double as a firepit, strings removed of course.


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> There's a thread on it's own.
> Which guitar? Something that will withstand the ravages of time waiting to be unearthed.


When in doubt call Bond. 








Carbon fibre with no frets to worry about.


----------



## High/Deaf

Probably an old Martin. I hear they take a lickin' and keep on tickin'.


----------



## Electraglide

High/Deaf said:


> Probably an old Martin. I hear they take a lickin' and keep on tickin'.
> 
> 
> View attachment 340249


Named after Roy Roger's horse?


----------



## laristotle

Canada inks deal with U.S. to send astronaut around the moon


OTTAWA — The federal government has signed an agreement with the United States to send a Canadian astronaut around the moon as part of a broader effort to…




ottawasun.com


----------



## leftysg

It was cloudy last night here in my part of S. Ontario last evening. Did anyone catch any pics or glimpses of the super conjunction between Jupiter and Saturn? Disappointed not to see it but on the good news front apparently Venus and Mars were alright...


----------



## Electraglide

leftysg said:


> It was cloudy last night here in my part of S. Ontario last evening. Did anyone catch any pics or glimpses of the super conjunction between Jupiter and Saturn? Disappointed not to see it but on the good news front apparently Venus and Mars were alright...


I went out but it was snowing....started around 4ish. It's still snowing. I had a look Sunday night/Monday morning around 1 am but there's too many lights around here. 




Too bad there's not a song for shoveling snow or better yet get someone else to shovel the damned stuff.


----------



## leftysg

These two vids need to be conjoined!

[ h ://video]



 video]


----------



## laristotle

Electraglide said:


> better yet get someone else to shovel the damned stuff


Funny how today's youth complain about no jobs, but don't take advantage of tax-free wages shoveling driveways?
I'm sure that many/most here remember their days walking house to house after a snow storm providing their services for $5/driveway.
And that was with a heavy steel shovel draped over your shoulder. Not the current lightweight plastic ones.
Spring to fall was the lawn mowing season.
I made quite a bit as a kid along with a paper route.


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> Funny how today's youth complain about no jobs, but don't take advantage of tax-free wages shoveling driveways?
> I'm sure that many/most here remember their days walking house to house after a snow storm providing their services for $5/driveway.
> And that was with a heavy steel shovel draped over your shoulder. Not the current lightweight plastic ones.
> Spring to fall was the lawn mowing season.
> I made quite a bit as a kid along with a paper route.


Doing the driveway where I grew up was bad enough and that includes using the tractor with a blade from the road to the house and shovel around the house. Never mind the neighbours. BTW the snow/coal shovel was great for going down snowy hills. Since I moved to Ab. I've only seen one kid looking to shovel snow and that was after a heavy snowfall and about -10'. Cost me $25 and I let him use my snowblower.


----------



## mhammer

leftysg said:


> It was cloudy last night here in my part of S. Ontario last evening. Did anyone catch any pics or glimpses of the super conjunction between Jupiter and Saturn? Disappointed not to see it but on the good news front apparently Venus and Mars were alright...


We don't bother anymore. Sadly, if it's any sort of celestial event of any import or rarity, for sure we will have enough cloud cover that evening that we will be barely able to see the moon, let alone some little flickering dot somewhere. True to form, the skies were thick with clouds last night.


----------



## Robert1950

GRB (Gamma Ray Burst) seen in furthest known galaxy 13.4B light years away. Given the expansion of space this galaxy is now 32B light years away to day. What was seen happened 13.4B years ago


















We may have seen a huge explosion in the oldest galaxy in the universe


An explosion of high-energy radiation may have been spotted coming from a galaxy in the distant universe – a gamma-ray burst that occurred just 400 million years after the big bang




www.newscientist.com













Huge Space Explosion Is Farthest Thing Ever Seen


A gamma-ray burst of a dying star could be the most distant object yet seen in the universe, astronomers say. The exploded star GRB 090429B is 13.14 billion light-years away.




www.space.com


----------



## butterknucket




----------



## Electraglide

On the Hunt for a Missing Giant Black Hole


Astronomers are searching for signs of a supermassive black hole in the galaxy cluster Abell 2261. Scientists think this galaxy underwent a merger with another galaxy, which could have caused a newly formed larger black hole to be ejected. Astronomers do not yet know what happened to this giant...




www.nasa.gov


----------



## Robert1950

BBC - Best space images of 2020









Space images: The best of 2020


There was stunning cosmic imagery to feast on over the past year - here's our pick of the offerings.



www.bbc.com


----------



## Lincoln

30 years of Hubble and it's still blowing my socks off.


----------



## laristotle

Prime viewing for Quadrantids meteor shower early Sunday


Twinkle, twinkle, not so little star — or, in this case, meteors.




torontosun.com


----------



## Electraglide

Lincoln said:


> 30 years of Hubble and it's still blowing my socks off.


Same here. NGC 6751


----------



## Robert1950

The International Ultraviolet Explorer 1979-1996


----------



## Electraglide

Still out there and still taking pictures and sending them back. 








Not bad for almost 50 year old technology.




and a 60+ year old song.


----------



## Electraglide




----------



## High/Deaf

Electraglide said:


> Still out there and still taking pictures and sending them back.
> View attachment 344165
> 
> Not bad for almost 50 year old technology.


Especially considering it was born near-sighted and needed corrective lenses right away to live up to it's mandate. Since then, it's been all +ve.


----------



## Electraglide

Voyager 2 is the slower one.








Voyager - Mission Status






voyager.jpl.nasa.gov




New Horizons is somewhere in there too. Still taking pictures.


----------



## Robert1950

3000 Days (Martian Days) on Mars - Curiosity Rover









Nasa's Curiosity rover: 3,000 days on Mars


Three thousand days and counting: Nasa's Curiosity rover continues its extraordinary exploration of Mars.



www.bbc.com


----------



## boyscout

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1349851838946807809


----------



## Lincoln

Robert1950 said:


> 3000 Days (Martian Days) on Mars - Curiosity Rover
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nasa's Curiosity rover: 3,000 days on Mars
> 
> 
> Three thousand days and counting: Nasa's Curiosity rover continues its extraordinary exploration of Mars.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 344620


That's a lava flow! Wonder how old it is?


----------



## Electraglide

Lincoln said:


> That's a lava flow! Wonder how old it is?


Looks like maybe 20 million to 3.5 billion years old. 


Mars


I don't think the pic is of a Lava Flow tho, 








Curiosity's View From the Top of the 'Greenheugh Pediment' – NASA Mars Exploration


Stitched together from 28 images, NASA's Curiosity Mars rover captured this view from "Greenheugh Pediment" on April 9, 2020, the 2,729th Martian day, or sol, of the mission. In the foreground is the pediment's sandstone cap. At center is the "clay-bearing unit"; the floor of Gale Crater is in...




mars.nasa.gov




I think it's more sea bottom. These clouds could be all that's left of that sea. Wonders never cease.


----------



## High/Deaf

Electraglide said:


> Wonders never cease.


They will, if the people who claim to 'own' science get their way and stop it in its tracks. Too much of the planet seems to be on that trajectory right now.


----------



## Paul Running

Robert1950 said:


> 3000 Days (Martian Days) on Mars - Curiosity Rover
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nasa's Curiosity rover: 3,000 days on Mars
> 
> 
> Three thousand days and counting: Nasa's Curiosity rover continues its extraordinary exploration of Mars.
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 344620


Looks like parts of Arizona.


----------



## Robert1950

A dying galaxy and an unusual neutron star


----------



## Electraglide

High/Deaf said:


> They will, if the people who claim to 'own' science get their way and stop it in its tracks. Too much of the planet seems to be on that trajectory right now.


I heard the first man made satellite in space, a man walked on the moon and now clouds on Mars.....wonders. Small wonders as compared to looking at my son's face as he was being born but wonders never the less. As far as "the people who claim to 'own' science" go, it doesn't matter what they say or do as long as I'm alive the wonders will never cease.


----------



## Robert1950

The Difficulties in Finding Planet X (9) ...








If Planet Nine exists, why has no one seen it?


Strange things are happening at the outer edges of our solar system. An object up to ten times the mass of Earth is pulling others towards it. Is it a planet, or something else?




www.bbc.com


----------



## Lincoln

Robert1950 said:


> The Difficulties in Finding Planet X (9) ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Planet Nine exists, why has no one seen it?
> 
> 
> Strange things are happening at the outer edges of our solar system. An object up to ten times the mass of Earth is pulling others towards it. Is it a planet, or something else?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bbc.com


that's cool. They've always said there is "something" out there influencing the orbits of the planets. A black hole would explain it alright.


----------



## Sneaky

Mars Mission Perseverance Rover landing tomorrow. Watch it live...

Watch Online: Mars Landing


----------



## StratCat

Last week (on separate nights) I saw the International Space Station and Elon Musk’s Satellite Train fly overhead. 

The satellite train is definitely something to see if you have the chance. Very cool!


----------



## Electraglide

Let's fly this puppy.








There's now a helicopter on Mars


NASA's Perseverance rover landed on Mars along with the Ingenuity helicopter, which is set to make the first test flight on another planet.




www.inverse.com






StratCat said:


> Last week (on separate nights) I saw the International Space Station and Elon Musk’s Satellite Train fly overhead.
> 
> The satellite train is definitely something to see if you have the chance. Very cool!


Guess when it decided to get cloudy....about the same time I got a remote release for my camera and figured out how to take exposures longer than 30 seconds.


----------



## keto

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1363929492138254340


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Electraglide




----------



## bzrkrage

Meteor Calgary


----------



## Lincoln

bzrkrage said:


> Meteor Calgary


That rock is worth big money if there is anything left of it.


----------



## Lincoln

I know it was the perfect launch window and everything, but is anyone wondering why all the interest in Mars? The US, China, and the Arabs all have new space craft there or on route.
I have to wonder what they found.


----------



## Paul Running

The purpose-driven part of Mars' gender equity-focused Full Potential platform launched last year. The campaign will build on actions Mars has already started, including removing gender bias and negative stereotypes from its advertising.









Mars starts influencer-powered crowdsourcing campaign to amplify women's voices


The purpose-driven #HereToBeHeard push seeks to build on prior efforts by the marketer, including removing gender bias and negative stereotypes from ads.




www.marketingdive.com


----------



## Lincoln

Paul Running said:


> The purpose-driven part of Mars' gender equity-focused Full Potential platform launched last year. The campaign will build on actions Mars has already started, including removing gender bias and negative stereotypes from its advertising.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mars starts influencer-powered crowdsourcing campaign to amplify women's voices
> 
> 
> The purpose-driven #HereToBeHeard push seeks to build on prior efforts by the marketer, including removing gender bias and negative stereotypes from ads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.marketingdive.com


Are you saying it's because people have too much time on their hands?


----------



## laristotle

Paul Running said:


> The purpose-driven part of Mars' gender equity-focused Full Potential platform launched last year. The campaign will build on actions Mars has already started, including removing gender bias and negative stereotypes from its advertising.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mars starts influencer-powered crowdsourcing campaign to amplify women's voices
> 
> 
> The purpose-driven #HereToBeHeard push seeks to build on prior efforts by the marketer, including removing gender bias and negative stereotypes from ads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.marketingdive.com


And this has what to do with space and astronomy?


----------



## Lincoln

cool pictures bro......
Mars in 4K


----------



## Hammerhands

Lincoln said:


> I know it was the perfect launch window and everything, but is anyone wondering why all the interest in Mars? The US, China, and the Arabs all have new space craft there or on route.
> I have to wonder what they found.


Neil deGrasse Tyson answered this on Colbert the other night. Colbert suggested it is because “they” “know” there is life on Mars and it will be a feather in the cap of the country that can find irrefutable proof.

NdGT said once every 26 months, Earth and Mars are at their closest, and that‘s when you launch your probes.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Lincoln

laristotle said:


> View attachment 353602


what we really need is Bernie Sanders on mars.


----------



## oldjoat

with or without the mitts?


----------



## Lincoln

oldjoat said:


> with or without the mitts?


you gotta have the mitts. he's nothing without them.


----------



## Electraglide

Lincoln said:


> I know it was the perfect launch window and everything, but is anyone wondering why all the interest in Mars? The US, China, and the Arabs all have new space craft there or on route.
> I have to wonder what they found.


Maybe they're looking for chewed up Caddys.







Lincoln said:


> That rock is worth big money if there is anything left of it.


From what they say it was part of a comet 








Fireball that lit up Prairie sky was a comet fragment travelling 220,000 km/h: University of Alberta | Globalnews.ca


The bright flash streaked through the sky just before 6:30 a.m. MT Monday. Several people caught the fireball on dashcam and doorbell cameras.




globalnews.ca




would have been nice to see tho.


----------



## Sneaky

Lincoln said:


> what we really need is Bernie Sanders on mars.


Already been done


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## Lincoln

Electraglide said:


> From what they say it was part of a comet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fireball that lit up Prairie sky was a comet fragment travelling 220,000 km/h: University of Alberta | Globalnews.ca
> 
> 
> The bright flash streaked through the sky just before 6:30 a.m. MT Monday. Several people caught the fireball on dashcam and doorbell cameras.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> globalnews.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> would have been nice to see tho.


I heard later it never made the ground. Evaporated. Like a beer on a hot day.


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## Paul Running

Imagine the conversion of kinetic energy at 220,000km/hr.


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## boyscout




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## laristotle




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## butterknucket




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## Always12AM

Robert1950 said:


> Star's seven Earth-sized worlds set record
> 
> 7 Earth-like planets found orbiting star 39 light-years away


I love astronomy. I was not scientifically inclined in school but was forced to complete a natural science course to complete my undergrad. Couldn’t be happier that I did it.

Also, started off in social services and saw how fucked up society is and since then have pursued history and education. If the news was impartial and based purely on empirical data and delivered by qualified analysts, it would be helpful for us to consume it.

As it stands, media outlets have an incentive to sensationalize and lend themselves to propaganda. Coupled with a generation of ineffectual millennials with pseudo intellectual ambitions who do nothing for society aside from signal their virtues and offer up suggestions about how the world should be organized prior to having gotten their shit together or going out in their actual community and getting a sense of what genuine change requires. It is enough to drive any rational and intelligent person fucking mental.

Astronomy and science in general is the antidote to the existential crisis created by the bull roar perpetuated by current issues and social media.

Examining existence from a point of impartial objective truth is comforting. Taking some time to actualize where we as human beings stand in the grand scheme of the observable universe provides us with perspective and allows us to take a free journey outward and inward.

Looking at mankind as a species and taking a moment to reflect on the infinite amount of anomalies that occurred to even create the conditions needed for us to develop as organisms is beautiful.

I highly suggest checking out the movie “tree of life” :


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## Paul Running

Always12AM said:


> Astronomy and science in general is the antidote to the existential crisis created by the bull roar created by current issues and social media.


I agree...much more interesting to ponder the theory of worm holes.


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## Electraglide

It's only an 'existential crisis' if you worry much about most of the current issues and social media and where we "stand in the grand scheme of the observable universe". I don't. Gave up worrying about that in the '60s. I'm thinking more about if it's going to be cloudy tonight and how the below 0'C is going to affect my camera and lenses and if I can find a place dark enough to take some good night shots.








Best night sky events of August 2021 (stargazing maps)







www.space.com


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## laristotle

Electraglide said:


> how the below 0'C is going to affect my camera and lenses and if I can find a place dark enough to take some good shots


Pfft. Copy high rez pics off of google and save them in your photo album.


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## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> Pfft. Copy high rez pics off of google and save them in your photo album.


I did but they're just not the same.


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## laristotle

NASA Releases Stunning New Pic of Milky Way’s ‘Downtown’


CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla.—NASA has released a stunning new picture of our galaxy’s violent, super-energized “downtown.” It’s a composite of 370 observations over the past two decades by the orbiting Chandra X-ray Observatory, depicting billions of stars and countless black holes in the center, or...




www.ntd.com


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## laristotle

NASA’s Juno Mission Captures First Closeup Images of Jupiter’s Largest Moon in a Generation


The largest moon in our solar system got its first close-up in more than 20 years on Monday.




www.ntd.com


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## bzrkrage

Take THAT flat earthers! Oh wait it only shows the " disc " casting a shadow over the moon.?....

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1459646050868908043


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## keto

The current series Nova is running (PBS) is great. Last week was about finding worlds 'like' ours - they just figured out to narrow down the search to look for water, and there are lots of suspects worthy of further research - and last night was about black holes. It hasn't been long since they figured out that our whole galaxy revolves around a super massive black hole. Huh!


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## Paul Running




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## laristotle

Paul Running said:


> View attachment 388309


I'd be more inclined to believe in Discworld. 🤪


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## laristotle

NASA puts out call to U.S. industry partners to design a nuclear reactor to run on the Moon


Companies have until February 19 of next year to come up with a concept that can sustain life support systems, conduct research and support exploration and…




nationalpost.com





_Along with the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), the space agency put out a request on Friday, November 19 to American companies to pitch concept designs of a “fission surface power system” as part of its Artemis programme to put people back on the Moon, and eventually, Mars.

The hope is to design a reactor that could be launched and running on the Moon’s surface within the decade. And, if all goes well, astronauts could eventually spend up to two months at a time living on the Moon, using it as a jumping-off point for missions further into the solar system. .

“Fission surface power – in conjunction with solar cells, batteries, and fuel cells – can provide the power to operate rovers, conduct experiments, and use the Moon’s resources to produce water, propellant, and other supplies for life support,” NASA said._


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## laristotle




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## Paul Running




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## laristotle

At 11:37 p.m. on Sunday, April 17









After a bright fireball, meteorites may have hit the ground east of Lake Simcoe


A space rock dove into Earth's atmosphere on Sunday night, and pieces of it may have survived to reach the ground.



www.theweathernetwork.com


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## laristotle

A "cannibal" solar ejection heading straight for Earth could bring northern lights as far south as Illinois and trigger power voltage issues


The storm could hit as soon as Thursday, NOAA said.




www.cbsnews.com


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## Ship of fools

The $93-billion plan to put astronauts back on the Moon


The world’s most powerful rocket will make a trip around the Moon in 2022 — a step towards landing people there in 2025, and part of the US Artemis programme.




www.nature.com




.
And they also talked about building on the moon along with a new space station, but I do wonder what will happen with mining rights and such and who will be in control and which government will decide that the moon is theirs. I expect a cluster fuck of a fight eventually in say 10 years or so.


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## laristotle

The Sun Is Now More Active Than NASA Predicted. It Could Be In Its Strongest Cycle Since Records Began


After the weakest solar cycle in 100 years it now looks likely that we're on the cusp of the strongest showing of "space weather" ever recorded. What's going on?




www.forbes.com




_“The Sun’s activity has quickly ramped up and even though we haven’t reached peak levels in this cycle, the Sun’s activity is already exceeding predictions,” said Nicola Fox, Director of NASA’s Heliophysics Division in a blog last week. “Solar events will continue to increase as we near solar maximum in 2025, and our lives and technology on Earth, as well as satellites and astronauts in space, will be impacted.”_


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## Ship of fools

Artemis launch SCRAPPED: When will NASA send the SLS to the Moon?


NASA has scrapped its Artemis I launch today, as engineers identified a fuel leak aboard the Space Launch System (SLS) meant to carry an Orion spacecraft on a six-week trip around the Moon. When will NASA send the SLS to the Moon?




www.express.co.uk




I was hoping to see that launch


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## CenturyBreak

Ship of fools said:


> Artemis launch SCRAPPED: When will NASA send the SLS to the Moon?
> 
> 
> NASA has scrapped its Artemis I launch today, as engineers identified a fuel leak aboard the Space Launch System (SLS) meant to carry an Orion spacecraft on a six-week trip around the Moon. When will NASA send the SLS to the Moon?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.express.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was hoping to see that launch


The launch wasn't "scrapped". It's been rescheduled to Saturday... probably... 🤞


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## laristotle

The sun was 'smiling' in a NASA photo. It might be a warning for Earth


It could be a beautiful aurora sighting - or it could signal problems for the planet's telecommunications systems




nationalpost.com














_“More so than a smiley face, its eyes are like gleaming laser beams sending particles that can cause severe disruptions to the atmosphere on Earth,” Keating said.

When the particles, which carry electrical charge, hit the planet in small doses, colourful auroras might follow, bringing brilliant displays caused by the atmosphere’s gases interacting with the sun’s burped-up shoots of energy. The problems come if a tremendous number of the teeny-tiny particles hit Earth, Keating said. Instead of being sucked into Earth’s magnetic field, they could get picked up by radio antennae and disrupt radio, television and other communication channels. A severe solar storm could even damage electrical grids and cause power outages, Keating added.

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Space Weather Prediction Center issued a minor geomagnetic storm watch Saturday, warning that conditions could change from “unsettled” to “active.” The flare-ups of the coronal holes are expected to continue through Wednesday. _


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## Mark Brown

Nothing says love like a little ion storm smile


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## Robert1950

I forgot that I started this thread


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## 2manyGuitars

Just wait until the “_NASA is Fake!!! Space isn’t REAL!!!_” flat-earthers show up. 😆 

You guys think I’m joking?


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## laristotle

All the planets in our solar system are visible in the night sky


All other planets in our solar system are currently visible in the night sky. Venus, Mercury, Saturn, Jupiter and Mars can be seen with the naked eye, and Uranus and Neptune with binoculars.




www.dailymail.co.uk


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## 2N1305

so... speaking of space,.. and space-shit... who is the klignon in your avatar? Not that I'd remember, but I just thought it's a good thread to ask this on, except the "are you ready for alien encounter" thread.


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## 2N1305

Robert1950 said:


> I forgot that I started this thread


so... speaking of space,.. and space-shit... who is the klignon in your avatar?
Not that I'd remember, but I just thought it's a good thread to ask this on, except the "are you ready for alien encounter" thread.


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## Mark Brown

2N1305 said:


> so... speaking of space,.. and space-shit... who is the klignon in your avatar?


That's Gowron as seen in TNG.

He stopped using as much speed by Deep Space Nine.


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