# Poor Man's Hammond



## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

So, after lusting for a Hammond organ for so long, I decided to get creative with what I had.

I had installed a simple passive effects loop in my JCM800 clone. 
I used my Old Solid State Acetone Organ that I picked up 3 years ago at Value Village for $15. It has a 1/4" headphone jack out so I put that to my Boss Equalizer Pedal (GE-7 I think- convincing me that the buffer will make it safe to go into the amp), which then goes to my EH Wiggler (tube Vibrato and Tremolo pedal), and then into the power amp of the JCM800 and out to a speaker cab. It actually sounds not too bad. I will have to try it with the band to see what it sounds like in the mix. I guess it is not exactly the poor man's Hammond because it still uses well over $1000 worth of gear, but I haven't found a real Hammond organ available anywhere so it's what I've got.

I found that if I go to the Wiggler before the boss pedal, it has WAY less headroom on even the same settings. Interesting.

My next thought is to try wiring up the Leslie 47 that I have directly to the Acetone.

Anyways, no one is probably interested in this but since this is too boring for my blog, I thought I would make conversation here.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Pick up an M3 while your at it. You can pick them up for a couple hundred too.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> Pick up an M3 while your at it. You can pick them up for a couple hundred too.


If I could find one anywhere out west I would definitely snap it up. An M3 looks like it would be a perfect sized Hammond for me. I wish I could find one...


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

bcmatt said:


> If I could find one anywhere out west I would definitely snap it up. An M3 looks like it would be a perfect sized Hammond for me. I wish I could find one...


They are out there. Where in the mountains are you?


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

This guy has lots ...
http://vancouver.kijiji.ca/c-buy-an...mmonds-and-Leslies-for-Sale-W0QQAdIdZ90584633


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

...or a Porta B if you see one. They're usually a decent price. Although be prepared for some tweakin' as they're kinda finicky:food-smiley-004:


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

or an M100 series. When you say 'out west' if that includes Alberta, keep an eye on Craigslist and BuySell.com for Edmonton and Calgary. M3s/M100s show up every few months.
I had a line on a mint M3 in Edmonton a couple of months ago, but the guy wanted something like $650 for it. It was pretty, but I thought too high priced. I can see if I can find out if it's available if you're interested.
The M3 I had a couple of years ago, I only paid $250 for.

If you've got a Leslie 47, you probably need the preamp pedal to hook up a 1/4" jack. There are a few Hammond guys here, it's a surprisingly good place to get your Hammond questions answered. They've helped me (and prodded me [Shoretyus] lol) a few times.

I remember AceTones from the old days. Cool to see some of them are still hanging in there.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

nonreverb said:


> ...or a Porta B if you see one. They're usually a decent price. Although be prepared for some tweakin' as they're kinda finicky:food-smiley-004:


I shudder at that sound :smile: DO NOT buy an X5... 

That M3 in the 'chuck is nice looking but way over priced yes.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> They are out there. Where in the mountains are you?


Ya, Actually, I am right near Alberta in South-Eastern BC. I'm only 2 hours drive from Lethbridge, and 3 hours drive from Calgary. 
If I could find something in Calgary, it would be most convenient because I am there quite often and my Girlfriend lives there.

I guess these old Hammonds aren't quite as rare as I thought. You guys built up my hopes of actually finding one eventually.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

dwagar said:


> I remember AceTones from the old days. Cool to see some of them are still hanging in there.


I guess you could say it's hanging in there... but there are a couple keys that get stuck on, requiring a hard and firm wack under the keyboard to turn them off. I taped a piece of cardboard over the guilty keys so they don't get pressed accidentally.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> That M3 in the 'chuck is nice looking but way over priced yes.


I know the guy that owns it, not sure if he sold it yet. I think it's overpriced too, but it did actually come from an old lady's house. I helped load it up.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Keep your eyes on Craigslist and BuySell Calgary. They do come up more often than you'd think. I'd wait to find an M3 in good shape in the $250 range. Course, I'm a cheap guy. I've seen a few (M3s, M100s) advertised at $500, I don't know if they ever sold for that much though.

Hell, my last score was a '62 Lowrey FL AND Leslie 45 for free, in Calgary.
A couple of years ago, about an hour outside of Edmonton, my A100 for $450.

Patience, watch the ads, and be ready to jump quickly when you find it.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

dwagar said:


> Keep your eyes on Craigslist and BuySell Calgary. They do come up more often than you'd think. I'd wait to find an M3 in good shape in the $250 range. Course, I'm a cheap guy. I've seen a few (M3s, M100s) advertised at $500, I don't know if they ever sold for that much though.
> 
> Hell, my last score was a '62 Lowrey FL AND Leslie 45 for free, in Calgary.
> A couple of years ago, about an hour outside of Edmonton, my A100 for $450.
> ...


Ok, thanks. That's what I'll do. I'm learning the model numbers too. Just had to learn that the X77 is solid state. There is one in Calgary for $500.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

me, I'd wait for the real deal, not a Solid State.

Unless you're going to be gigging it a lot, a real Hammond is a pain to haul around. Even chopped you can't move it yourself. Then I'd suggest something like a used CX3.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

dwagar said:


> me, I'd wait for the real deal, not a Solid State.
> 
> Unless you're going to be gigging it a lot, a real Hammond is a pain to haul around. Even chopped you can't move it yourself. Then I'd suggest something like a used CX3.


Ya, I won't settle for solid state. I'll see what comes up.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

dwagar said:


> me, I'd wait for the real deal, not a Solid State.
> 
> Unless you're going to be gigging it a lot, a real Hammond is a pain to haul around. Even chopped you can't move it yourself. Then I'd suggest something like a used CX3.


This is my second post. The got lost in a vortex. Go for the M3 onr hold out for an A100. When dealing with these overpriced ones be polite and say WHEN you can't sell it for ( too much) I will give you $100. Unlike guitars these things take up floor space and there will be a point that they have to go. They also made a million M3's. 
Join Hamtech.org. too. It's a tech board and there are a few western guys. 

As far as moving really mind over matter... I can move this myself. It's slick and cheap. The M3 travels great as it's not top heavy either.


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

There's one for free on craigslist victoria. Sounds like it needs a bit of repair though, but if you're handy...I'm tempted just for the leslie: http://victoria.en.craigslist.ca/msg/961103567.html


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

devnulljp said:


> There's one for free on craigslist victoria. Sounds like it needs a bit of repair though, but if you're handy...I'm tempted just for the leslie: http://victoria.en.craigslist.ca/msg/961103567.html


STAY AWAY... it's an albatross. Stick with M series .. been there done that.


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

shoretyus said:


> STAY AWAY... it's an albatross. Stick with M series .. been there done that.


Really? I guess the guy wants rid of it pretty badly if it's up for free on CL, so it must be a dog. I don't know the first thing about these things, but I would like a Leslie. 
Thanks for the warning.
Sorry bcmatt


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

re moving them around, what I use is an equipment roller stand, about $50 at house of tools. 2 fixed casters on one end, 2 swivel that toggle up and down on the other, metal frame (that you assemble). 
I've got the A100 on one, and one sitting to be assembled for the Lowrey. 

But, none of them will get it up the stairs and into the van. :smile:


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

devnulljp said:


> Really? I guess the guy wants rid of it pretty badly if it's up for free on CL, so it must be a dog. I don't know the first thing about these things, but I would like a Leslie.
> Thanks for the warning.
> Sorry bcmatt


but you don't want one of the built in Leslies.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

bcmatt said:


> Ya, Actually, I am right near Alberta in South-Eastern BC. I'm only 2 hours drive from Lethbridge, and 3 hours drive from Calgary.
> If I could find something in Calgary, it would be most convenient because I am there quite often and my Girlfriend lives there.
> 
> I guess these old Hammonds aren't quite as rare as I thought. You guys built up my hopes of actually finding one eventually.


There were lots of M3's made...so many in fact that Hammond had a special area dedicated to building them! Problem is that an M3 is over 200lbs... chopping it might be the way to go if yer planning on gigging it....that or a good buddy and a van/truck. One of my personal rental organs is an A100 chop. It's the only way to go if the organ has to climb stairs.


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## Buzz (May 15, 2008)

Hey BCMatt I'm also from the Kootenays. I have a couple organs. An old Rheem combo organ (which I have for sale), a Conn electric band, and a Hammond Sounder. I've got an Acetone stereo phaser which is an amazing pedal. It ping pongs the sound with two amps. Have you tired using a wah wah pedal with an organ, its fun.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

Wow, Shoretyus, that is a real ingenious truck you got for that M3. I like the idea of the M3 not being top heavy. BY the way, does the M3 just use a couple of 6V6s? That's what it looks like in the picture. When people advertise organs, they never mention if it is a tube organ, which is what I really want. Furthermore, I never read anywhere what tube-types they use.
I imagine that most organs would have more than that for power seeing as my little Leslie *25** uses a couple 6L6s.

So, I guess As, Bs, Cs, Ls, and M model Organs are the only ones to consider? They will all be guaranteed to be tube organs? But realistically I am looking for an M3 or an A100 (less Likely). I'm not really holding out hope that I'll find a good tube sounding organ that will fit in my Neon. That's OK. 

It's for band situations anyways. 
But, I like the idea of chopping. I love forcing my retired father to do new sorts of woodworking projects. I get fancy cabs, and I feel it will extend his life.
I personally don't really play keys, I just would love the Hammond sound accompanying when I play guitar. My girlfriend is an extremely accomplished pianist:bow: and I dream of roping her in to accompany me if I can get her interested in organs. Of course, I'm a hack, and she is a real musician. If she refuses to play, I would still love a Hammond for home recording.

Is it stupid of me to show the desire for a Hammond on an internet board? Does it make everyone else GAS for one too and beat me to any deals? I'm hoping that everyone that wants one has one, and if you see any deals you'd let me know.

Buzz, I will definitely try my wah with my makeshift tube organ tomorrow. Thanks for the tip. Are any of your organs tube organs? I'm actually only an hour and a half (east and north) from Cranbrook, so you are actually my nearest decent sized city. I know someone in my town that got a Hammond from there a year or two ago.

My secret plan is to visit lots of churches. That's where I got my free Leslie. Apparently, I was a couple years too late on the organ that accompanied it. Most churches don't realize how cool some of their organs are and assume they are granny instruments. I have a pastor-friend in Edmonton that has a nice old Hammond + Leslie in his church that I tried to get him to give (or sell) to me. Of course, it was likely a gift from some old family and they keep it around as furniture so as not to insult them. I made him promise to not get rid of it without talking to me first.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

M3 or M100 series are what I think you should be chasing. Yes they are tube, and tonewheel, and drawbars and require yearly oiling.

here's a link to check when you need to know about a model
http://www.theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq/default.htm

IMO percussion is important. So if you found, say, a B2, add to your overall cost the $ for a percussion unit like a Trek.

You'd be surprised how many Hammond players are really guitar players. Or at least started as one. There's an affinity there. My wife is a classically trained pianist too. A Hammond is almost a completely different instrument than what they are used to. 

Sure, I'll keep an eye open for you. If I brought home another organ, even a free one, I'd be in very serious trouble, lol. We have enough keyboards around:
My A100 and Lowrey FL are at the place I practice and gig most of the time.
My BX3 is at home in the basement, along with my wife's Korg Triton Pro X (88 weighted keys, weighs a ton) and she has a Yamaha 6' Grand upstairs.

You're in good company here, I'm a neophyte keyboard player too (I think there's a few of us here). Same deal, I wanted the Hammond sound for the band, decided I'd do it myself. I try to make up for lack of skills with gear though. :smile: As I said earlier, there's a couple of really knowledgeable Hammond guys on the forum to keep us on the straight and narrow.

I'll let you know what I see or hear about.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

bcmatt said:


> Wow, Shoretyus, that is a real ingenious truck you got for that M3. I like the idea of the M3 not being top heavy. BY the way, does the M3 just use a couple of 6V6s? That's what it looks like in the picture. When people advertise organs, they never mention if it is a tube organ, which is what I really want. Furthermore, I never read anywhere what tube-types they use.
> I imagine that most organs would have more than that for power seeing as my little Leslie 47 uses a couple 6L6s.
> 
> So, I guess As, Bs, Cs, Ls, and M model Organs are the only ones to consider? They will all be guaranteed to be tube organs? But realistically I am looking for an M3 or an A100 (less Likely). I'm not really holding out hope that I'll find a good tube sounding organ that will fit in my Neon. That's OK.
> ...


Hey Matt,

Just thought I'd let you know that yer Leslie 47 actually is supposed to use 6550's...those 6L6's must be runnin' hot!


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

I don't think that it's worth chopping and M3. If you do you still have to heave a section of tonewheel that is about 150 + lbs. You aren't doing that yourself. 
Leaving it full size is not that much more weight ( 30-50 lbs) and its at low center of gravity making it more stable. It's pretty slick. Yeah you need a van preferably to move it. I have one for work and the boat anyway. I have a set of 5' planks and it rolls right into the van. Not great but I have loaded and unloaded it myself. With the wheels you are only actually lifting it to flip the wheels and the rest of the time you are rolling it. I have only done a small set of stairs though. I do have my limits. But most gigs around here are one level or are ramped for wheelchair access. It also lives at the bar. It gets rolled into the corner and when I play elsewhere it's an easy load. 


A100 is a different story as there is a lot more weight to be saved by chopping it. Nonreverb's chop is a great unit. It's got lots of extra metal edging and stuff to protect it from drunk guitar player's :wave:

Bottom line is that it's about THE SOUND. I think it's worth the trouble.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

nonreverb said:


> Hey Matt,
> 
> Just thought I'd let you know that yer Leslie 47 actually is supposed to use 6550's...those 6L6's must be runnin' hot!


I think he's talking about the organ Rich. But if you have a 47 the organ amp is not used as it's only 11 watts.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

nonreverb said:


> Hey Matt,
> 
> Just thought I'd let you know that yer Leslie 47 actually is supposed to use 6550's...those 6L6's must be runnin' hot!


I'm really sorry! My Bad! I don't have a 47. Yikes, I wish. I just have the 25. (The Orpheus). It does have 6L6GTs; Old GEs. They definately aren't running hot because without a Hammond organ, they ain't running at all unless I pop one in my little SE guitar amp that I built earlier this year from a schematic I found online (Allen's Class Act).
All these numbers running through my head, that's why I thought I owned a 47 for a few minutes today.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> I don't think that it's worth chopping and M3. If you do you still have to heave a section of tonewheel that is about 150 + lbs. You aren't doing that yourself.
> Leaving it full size is not that much more weight ( 30-50 lbs) and its at low center of gravity making it more stable. It's pretty slick. Yeah you need a van preferably to move it. I have one for work and the boat anyway. I have a set of 5' planks and it rolls right into the van. Not great but I have loaded and unloaded it myself. With the wheels you are only actually lifting it to flip the wheels and the rest of the time you are rolling it. I have only done a small set of stairs though. I do have my limits. But most gigs around here are one level or are ramped for wheelchair access. It also lives at the bar. It gets rolled into the corner and when I play elsewhere it's an easy load.
> 
> 
> ...




Ya, I have totally been falling in love with the M3 via youtube clips in recent hours. I now feel that I couldn't bear to chop it. Maybe I would consider it for an A100 though. Aren't I optimistic that I'll even ever find one of these, eh?


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

dwagar said:


> M3 or M100 series are what I think you should be chasing. Yes they are tube, and tonewheel, and drawbars and require yearly oiling.
> 
> here's a link to check when you need to know about a model
> http://www.theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq/default.htm
> ...


Don,
If you ever get me a lead on a suitable Hammond for me, I would be in your debt forever. I appreciate your keeping your eyes open for me. Especially since you are in Calgary. 
It looks like I may be moving there very soon as well. The Long Distance Relationship thing isn't going to last much longer with my girlfriend, so I'll need to give up my career to see if this is the real deal. I don't have a new place to live or a career out in Calgary, but I do have a lot of gear to fill up wherever I move to if this happens. I guess looking to buy an organ right before moving is also another sign of my insanity. My girlfriend could probably take it at her place if I find one before the move.
I'll have to find out when you're gigging, I can't get enough of those sounds in live band situations. Let me know about your upcoming shows.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

bcmatt said:


> Don,
> 
> It looks like I may be moving there very soon as well......
> 
> ...


Just move in with him... he already has an A100 ...:sport-smiley-002:

Merry xmas :smile:


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> Bottom line is that it's about THE SOUND. I think it's worth the trouble.


:food-smiley-004:


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> I think he's talking about the organ Rich. But if you have a 47 the organ amp is not used as it's only 11 watts.


Careful now...the 6L6 was only used in series III amps etc...it was not used in either the M3, M100 or 47...If he's using 6L6's as he suggests in his post than there could be potential problems apart from the fact that he'll not get full power outta the Leslie...if the 6L6's are in his Hammond, bad idea as well as they're supposed to be 6V6...


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

nonreverb said:


> Careful now...the 6L6 was only used in series III amps etc...it was not used in either the M3, M100 or 47...If he's using 6L6's as he suggests in his post than there could be potential problems apart from the fact that he'll not get full power outta the Leslie...if the 6L6's are in his Hammond, bad idea as well as they're supposed to be 6V6...


How come you are always right? :bow: ... 

I owe you a beer .....


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

nonreverb said:


> Careful now...the 6L6 was only used in series III amps etc...it was not used in either the M3, M100 or 47...If he's using 6L6's as he suggests in his post than there could be potential problems apart from the fact that he'll not get full power outta the Leslie...if the 6L6's are in his Hammond, bad idea as well as they're supposed to be 6V6...


My answer is on the previous page about my Leslie being a 25 (Orpheus) and not the 47. I got screwed up. Is it proper for the Orpheus to have Old General Electric 6L6s?

I have another question about the M3. It looks like a nice sized Hammond, but I'm wondering how creative you need to get to use a Leslie Cab with it.
I see this little idea about making a line out...
http://www.wikihow.com/Install-a-Line-out-Jack-on-a-Hammond-M3-Electric-Organ

Does that actually allow the amp to have a safe load on it, or is it actually just a preamp in the M3 that doesn't require the speaker load or something?


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

bcmatt said:


> My answer is on the previous page about my Leslie being a 25 (Orpheus) and not the 47. I got screwed up. Is it proper for the Orpheus to have Old General Electric 6L6s?
> 
> I have another question about the M3. It looks like a nice sized Hammond, but I'm wondering how creative you need to get to use a Leslie Cab with it.
> I see this little idea about making a line out...
> ...


It is the preamp in the M3. That RCA jack intercepts the signal before the power section. You don't have a Combo preamp pedal so it will involve some work to hook it up to an M3 as the supply and speed switching part of the circuit will have to be built as well.
BTW matt no problem on the number mistake regarding yer Leslie...it took me ages to get them straight!!


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

nonreverb said:


> BTW matt no problem on the number mistake regarding yer Leslie...it took me ages to get them straight!!


It sure helps when you own them all .. well except for the 6L6 laden TALLBOY ..


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> It sure helps when you own them all .. well except for the 6L6 laden TALLBOY ..


bah!....whatever....lofu


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