# Purchasing a Diamond...



## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

Does anyone out there in guitarland know anything about purchasing a diamond?

Specifically, what percentage of the appraised value on the CGA certificate should one expect to pay?


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i hope this thread attracts lots of posts. i would be interested in learning a few things about this too.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

I have, from my late mothers estate, a 3 stone ring that came with an insurance appraisal for 5000 dollars.

A couple years ago, when really broke, we took it to places far and wide. H Williams Jewellers was the best offer of 25 dollars for it.


 what you pay and what it's worth seem to be separated by many 0's


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

depending on where you go, you can pay as little as half of appraisal value.
which speak partially on whether you are getting a deal or not, and partially an overstated appraisal value. "Appraisal value" can be somewhat arbitrary.

for reasonable values, look at some of the larger US websites.
http://www.bluenile.com/
http://www.diamonds.com
do a google search - I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting

look at the loose stones inventory, so values aren't affected by different settings etc.


and if you are spending any serious amount of cake on a diamond, I would suggest it is GIA certified. They have the strictest and most widely respected grading system.


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## sivs (Aug 5, 2009)

When I bought my fiancée (and now wife) a ring, I had it custom made by a jeweler in Hamilton. I got a Canadian diamond with all of the papers and certifications. After getting the ring, we paid to have it professionally appraised and the appraisal value was approximately twice what I paid for the ring. I looked at a whole bunch of stuff and ended up going custom because I wanted something I couldn't get stock elsewhere, but it ended up being a better deal than anything I could get stock too.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

keeperofthegood said:


> I have, from my late mothers estate, a 3 stone ring that came with an insurance appraisal for 5000 dollars.
> 
> A couple years ago, when really broke, we took it to places far and wide. H Williams Jewellers was the best offer of 25 dollars for it.
> 
> ...


Organizations that buy jewellery are usually snakes and really undercut what something is worth when buying.




puckhead said:


> depending on where you go, you can pay as little as half of appraisal value.
> which speak partially on whether you are getting a deal or not, and partially an overstated appraisal value. "Appraisal value" can be somewhat arbitrary.
> 
> for reasonable values, look at some of the larger US websites.
> ...


"GIA" - that was the organization I was thinking of - not CGA! I know I can buy one at 50% of it's GIA-appraised value, but I think those appraised values are grossly overpriced. The amount of 'cake' I spend is directly related to the amount of my gear I can sell before April.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Buy a zirconia.

Spend the rest on things that make a difference.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

After a few trips to the store you'll be up to snuff. I would check out Spence though, it's pretty easy store to shop in. Just look for clarity with few inclusions you'll be able to see those clearly with the loup. Pay more attention to the setting. Buy a good quality diamond and a nice setting. Just keep in mind that most all diamonds are controlled by De Beers. It's inflated value on something that really isn't scarce.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Buy a zirconia.
> 
> Spend the rest on things that make a difference.


 
WISE WORDS INDEED!

can't tell the diff unless your some kind of expert - and even so - who gives a rats ass...zirconia is just as purty


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## mansfield (Dec 23, 2009)

Milkman said:


> Buy a zirconia.
> 
> Spend the rest on things that make a difference.


x3........:smile:


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## Cort Strummer (Feb 16, 2009)

Hey, you should just buy her one of these:










Then you will be happy and all you have to say is "hey I bought you a Diamond why are you so mad?"


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Cort Strummer said:


> Hey, you should just buy her one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why does it have to be a Diamond anyway? Just in general I mean. It's De Beers telling everyone that "a Diamond is Forever" Maybe there is another stone that is just as meaningfull to her?


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> Why does it have to be a Diamond anyway? Just in general I mean. It's De Beers telling everyone that "a Diamond is Forever" Maybe there is another stone that is just as meaningfull to her?


Very true. We went to the Bancroft Gemboree and bought Emeralds. When there we connected with a jeweler that custom made our rings ..total cost was under $500. Sad part is that my wife likes MY ring better and has since take it over


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

do it yourself....
take the old needle out of the Shure cartridge on your Dual turntable and crazy glue it onto a nice gold coloured beer can tab. voila! one diamond engagement ring! j/k

best advice is to set a budget you can live with. 
of course the Diamond sellers say "you should spend 2-3 months salary" which is their way of setting up expectations that you should spend that much. reality is you should spend what you feel comfortable with.

regardless of price, be certain to deal with a reputable seller who has been in business for a while. ask if they or their staff are certified gemologists. do they offer any sort of guarantee or trade-in arrangement? 
some folks may choose to "trade-up" their diamond engagement ring at later anniversaries. a good jeweller will be happy to establish a relationship with you and appreciate your return business. do your homework and understand what the 4 Cs are all about. colour, cut, clarity, carats.

best of luck to you and yours.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

shoretyus said:


> Very true. We went to the Bancroft Gemboree and bought Emeralds. When there we connected with a jeweler that custom made our rings ..total cost was under $500. Sad part is that my wife likes MY ring better and has since take it over


kkjuw That is the BEAST we all know and love as WOMEN!! 

I lived with a couple girls back in college (8 of us in one small duplex house) and gosh, I'd open my closet and have NO cloths >.< them ladies kept "borrowing" them >.< saying "your t-shits are so much more comfortable" or "mens pants look better on me" or any of a hundred dozen other lines >.<


Yea, what something is worth is subjective. I certainly have not sold that old ring, and have no intention of doing so now. But at least, I know, between Hamilton and Toronto, not a shop is honest enough to give an honest value to it.

And if it was me? I do not know. I like pressure point platinum settings, those just LOOK too awesome for words XD The stone? Hmm...


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Also one thing of note if you buy just under what you want, for example instead of a full carat, buy 3/4 carat ect, you'll save HUGE dollars! And yeah the 3 months salary guidline is just vulger, but unfortunately alot of starry eyed girls think that bigger is better. Like I said, get a nice setting.


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## ashm70 (Apr 2, 2009)

in regard to what to spend on an engagement ring:

"Now that we have established what you are, we're just haggling over price..."

I got my wife a small ring, I was waiting tables and in school a the time. I went to a few shops and was told the same shit, save up 3 months of salary. I ended up going my sister's friend's dad's place. He helped me choose a stone that would fit my budget and would retain value. He said to me that the value of the stone has no bearing on your love for your future wife. If she truely loved you, she'd be content with a steel band.

This demand for big rocks makes me laugh. I have called more than one gold digger on it in public, much to the chagrin of my wife....

The LAST thing you should do is allow your future wife to even have a say in the selection process. Women are groomed for their wedding from day one. The expectations surrounding the proposal and wedding are so out of whack it is a real reality check to some women.

A friend of mine exchanged gifts with his betrothed. He got a Gibson Les Paul, she got a really nice watch.


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

a couple of clarifications from the thread:

- GIA certificate is not an appraisal (ie, will not assign a value), will just look at the quality of the stone.

- be wary of Spence. Yes, they make the process very easy, but they _really _take you to town on the price. 

my best advice is do your research on the size, cut and quality of loose stone you want at the websites I listed (and maybe a couple of others to make sure), and then talk to a jeweler with a price firmly in mind. 

Cdn mined stones tend to be a tiny bit more expensive, so be aware of that in your comparison.


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## foghorn99 (Apr 28, 2008)

mansfield said:


> x3........:smile:


x 5 more, again!!


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

puckhead said:


> a couple of clarifications from the thread:
> 
> - GIA certificate is not an appraisal (ie, will not assign a value), will just look at the quality of the stone.
> 
> ...


kkjuw I was talking to my daughter about diamonds and stones not too long ago. She is 8 now, but 2 months back she was 7. Her brother was saying with her love of gem stones she'd want a really big diamond, and I said "no, she'd want an uncut diamond as it naturally is". Looking at me, at her brother, at her mom, she then says "yea, not cut, I want it real".


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

Milkman said:


> Buy a zirconia.
> 
> Spend the rest on things that make a difference.


i know a guy that did this...on his 25th anniversary he took her to get an actual ring...it wasn't until about 2 months before the anni that she found out...she took it to get cleaned...found out the wrong way in my opinion but thats besides the point...they had more money for what mattered, and now she's got a nice ring...

personally...my wife is allergic to a LOT of metals...so to wear a ring full time it had to be platinum...it was TIFFANY's all the way...but she is worth every penny


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

puckhead said:


> - be wary of Spence. Yes, they make the process very easy, but they _really _take you to town on the price.


I would agree, but they make the selection of what kind of setting you like easier. THEN you go to a small Mom and Pop once you know what you want. :smile: I just think you guys get totally hosed on the whole engagement process!


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

ashm70 said:


> The LAST thing you should do is allow your future wife to even have a say in the selection process. Women are groomed for their wedding from day one.


Absolutely! All women are exactly the same and you're clearly the expert. 

I actually bought my own engagement ring. I had never worn a ring and wanted something that wouldn't affect my guitar playing or get in the way in general. We were in Edinburgh for a weekend with a bunch of friends who we played computer games with and spotted a really cool ring in the window of a touristy gift shop. Unfortunately the shop wasn't open yet. We went on to the pub to meet up with everyone for lunch then in the afternoon the rest of the group went to Edinburgh Castle. I'd been to the castle before and wanted to hit a museum instead so I went off on my own. The shop with the ring was on the way to the museum so I stopped in and tried one on. I liked it so I asked how late they were open so I could bring Pat back to see it. They were going to close before we were supposed to meet back up and would be closed the next day too, when we were leaving town, so I just bought the ring myself. 

Pat still wanted to do a traditional proposal so when we met back up I gave him the ring and he carried it around waiting for "the perfect moment." He's not a very patient man though so that night before bed he got down on one knee, took my hands in his, and dropped the ring on the floor. It rolled a bit but we found it. Picking my own ring out doesn't seem to have hurt our marriage in the slightest.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> Why does it have to be a Diamond anyway? Just in general I mean. It's De Beers telling everyone that "a Diamond is Forever" Maybe there is another stone that is just as meaningfull to her?


If it were up to my g/f, it wouldn't be a diamond. She's not materialistic and is actually quite practical. She prefers emeralds. Problem is, I am quite materialistic and emeralds can get damaged. So a diamond it will be, with a platinum ring no less.




ashm70 said:


> in regard to what to spend on an engagement ring:
> ... The LAST thing you should do is allow your future wife to even have a say in the selection process. Women are groomed for their wedding from day one. The expectations surrounding the proposal and wedding are so out of whack it is a real reality check to some women.


She will have no say. If she did, she would just want a gold ring with an emerald or a small diamond.

Also, my mindset when it comes to major purchases isn't quite 'normal'. Instead of picking something out and getting the best price, I come up with the most I am willing to spend and then pick the best thing out at that price. My price is never flexible. I did this with my house, my car, and pretty much every piece of gear I've owned.

Speaking of gear, to finance all this, expect a major purge sometime between now and April. Absolutely nothing will be untouchable (that includes my TopHat Emplexador, my PRS Brazilian SC, my Fender CS Strat and my Baker Inferno). It's going to be painful, but my g/f means more to me than any piece of equipment money can buy.


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## jcon (Apr 28, 2006)

Give this site a try...
pricescope.com

My now sister in law went through heaps of info on that site before settling on the rock my brother bought for her. Don't be afraid to join in on the forums and ask some questions. As I remember, there were quite a few guys asking advice from all the members.

Cheers,
Joe


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

kat_ said:


> I actually bought my own engagement ring. I had never worn a ring and wanted something that wouldn't affect my guitar playing or get in the way in general. We were in Edinburgh for a weekend with a bunch of friends who we played computer games with and spotted a really cool ring in the window of a touristy gift shop. Unfortunately the shop wasn't open yet. We went on to the pub to meet up with everyone for lunch then in the afternoon the rest of the group went to Edinburgh Castle. I'd been to the castle before and wanted to hit a museum instead so I went off on my own. The shop with the ring was on the way to the museum so I stopped in and tried one on. I liked it so I asked how late they were open so I could bring Pat back to see it. They were going to close before we were supposed to meet back up and would be closed the next day too, when we were leaving town, so I just bought the ring myself.
> 
> Pat still wanted to do a traditional proposal so when we met back up I gave him the ring and he carried it around waiting for "the perfect moment." He's not a very patient man though so that night before bed he got down on one knee, took my hands in his, and dropped the ring on the floor. It rolled a bit but we found it. Picking my own ring out doesn't seem to have hurt our marriage in the slightest.


That's a great story! Real life as opposed to some kind of non-existent fairy tale crap...


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

18 yrs and our emeralds aren't damaged.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

If she wants a big diamond, she is too high maintenance. Get her something that will apreiciate in value instead.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> ...for example instead of a full carat, buy 3/4 carat ect, you'll save HUGE dollars!


+1 on that. You wouldn't need to downsize that much to see a price difference however...even .96 will be significantly less than a full carat for instance. 

If you're so inclined, I'd suggest having the ring designed by someone reputable. Discuss a budget with them first, get a quote which separates the cost of the stones from the ring itself, and then consider supplying the stones yourself. I opted for this approach after learning that the stones are typically marked up 200-300% by designers. I saved myself over $1500 on the stones this way and, ultimately, managed to get my gal a MUCH nicer ring within the same budget constraints.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

kat_ said:


> I had never worn a ring and wanted something that wouldn't affect my guitar playing


:bow: the coolest priorities i've heard yet from anyone.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Cort Strummer said:


> Hey, you should just buy her one of these:


With one of these she can tell all her friends that you bought her a diamond so big, it was too heavy to wear on her finger! The other girls will be green with envy! They'll all be going 
.................kksjur........................................ ........... ....kksjur




. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .kksjur


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Buy a zirconia.
> 
> Spend the rest on things that make a difference.


I used to think that way... sid many times there was no way I was spending a lot of $$ on a rock, which served mno real purpose... Then I met my wife... and ended up spending a lot of my hard earned cash on her ring (and no she didnt know about it, so it was my descision only). I went to Tiffany in Toronto and talked to a woman there. She was quite helpful and my wife loved the ring (well, before she was my wife).

I am not into too many things like that, that really dont matter... but For some reason, I felt she was worth me working a lot of overtime for, and sacrificing $$ that otherwise would have probably be spent on more guitar stuff.

If you want to spend some serious coin on a diamond, for the woman you love, I say do it. And you dont have to justify it to anyone but yourself.

AJC


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

ajcoholic said:


> I used to think that way... sid many times there was no way I was spending a lot of $$ on a rock, which served mno real purpose... Then I met my wife... and ended up spending a lot of my hard earned cash on her ring (and no she didnt know about it, so it was my descision only). I went to Tiffany in Toronto and talked to a woman there. She was quite helpful and my wife loved the ring (well, before she was my wife).
> 
> I am not into too many things like that, that really dont matter... but For some reason, I felt she was worth me working a lot of overtime for, and sacrificing $$ that otherwise would have probably be spent on more guitar stuff.
> 
> ...


Some decent posts on this thread, but this by far was the smartest! I'm probably gonna pull the trigger once the Matchless is gone. If it takes too long to sell, something else will be put up for sale.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

A word about Platinum, I would go for high quality white gold instead. Platinum may be expenisve, but it is also softer than gold and stratches quite easily. My husband was lucky to have a friend of the family advise him and make our rings so told him that white gold is harder and shinier in the long run thatn Platinum. My Sr in Law has a HUGE 3 diamong engagement ring that she regrets is Platinum for the same reason, it needs professional polishing frequently to keep it's shine.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> A word about Platinum, I would go for high quality white gold instead. Platinum may be expenisve, but it is also softer than gold and stratches quite easily. My husband was lucky to have a friend of the family advise him and make our rings so told him that white gold is harder and shinier in the long run thatn Platinum. My Sr in Law has a HUGE 3 diamong engagement ring that she regrets is Platinum for the same reason, it needs professional polishing frequently to keep it's shine.


Found this with a google: http://www.diamondring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63322


```
Pros and Cons of a Platinum Ring

Pros 
Never Yellows. Always stays white  
Hypo-allergenic
White color compliments diamonds 
Will Last a Lifetime 


Cons 
More expensive than white gold  
Large polished areas will show scratches 
Narrow shanks may bend easier than WG  
Sizing or repairs are more difficult 

 

Pros and Cons of a White Gold Ring

Pros 

Less expensive than platinum  
Easier to size or repair     

Cons 

Possible allergic reactions to alloy metals 
More yellow than platinum. will need frequent replating to look white 
Prone to Corrosion, brittleness, breakdown
```
I would still do platinum. The patina aside (which I do like actually), it does have one other property that I like. It is a very strong spring metal:










Or











Makes for a very clean setting that will show off whatever kind of gemstone you want set in there, and it is just as strong as standard bezels with the fold over arms which I find can and does obscure much of the stone


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## Cort Strummer (Feb 16, 2009)

I always thought real platinum was suppost to be stronger than gold?


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

I have a platinum band, with an imbedded diamond, that I never take off (through hockey, golf, guitar, anything).

To me, the patina adds character over time, I like it. I have an etching that we had designed on the inside of the band, and that has held up well for 8 years now. So while it gets scuffed, it does not wear down as gold tend to do.

the jeweler (we designed our own rings) has offered complementary polishes basically forever as part of his service, but after a couple of visits (one per year) I stopped going and allowed the ring to 'relic' gracefully :smile:


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

More important, just do it in a way that's memorable. My husband spelled out Marry me in big white bricks on the roof of the cottage and flew me over it to "look at the fall colors" I had NO idea! he had told me that all the thumping on the roof the day before was to clean the eaves troughs...


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

My wife's engagement and wedding rings (as well as my band) are platinum. Yes, they certainly do show wear with daily use.

I polish my wife's rings myself, or when we are in Toronto get them done where I bought them for free.

But we also like the worn in look... 

But if you want them to stay mirror shiny new, with regular wearing, look elsewhere.

One other thing, platinum is HEAVY... You certainly know its on your finger!

Once again, best of luck with your choice!

AJC


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