# 1970's Fender Pro Reverb Silverface



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I found a 1970's Pro Reverb silverface online for sale. Supposedly just recapped. And the speakers are not original. He thinks they are Eminence. He is asking $799 for the amp. What are the opinions on this asking price? I think its a bit steep. I'm thinking about making an offer on it and have Wild Bill blackface it for me.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

The last couple of 70's pro reverbs at the used shop here in Ottawa have gone for $1000, so 7-800 is about right.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

I saw that ad too. Price is about average if not a bit high. Someone not far from me sold a near mint 70's Super Reverb for about that much just over 2 months ago. It was all original (including tubes) and took him a while to sell actually.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

vds5000 said:


> I saw that ad too. Price is about average if not a bit high. Someone not far from me sold a near mint 70's Super Reverb for about that much just over 2 months ago. It was all original (including tubes) and took him a while to sell actually.


If after inspection it sounds good I'm thinking in the $700 range will motivate me to buy it.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

Does it have the Master volume? Is the rectifier solid state or tube? If the answer is yes to both questions, than it's too much money. 

Shawn :wave:


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## sesroh (Sep 5, 2006)

The Pro Reverb is considered one of the best silverface models apparently. $799 is not a bad price if it's in good shape. Maybe see if he'll do $750. I've seen them for upto $1000 (non master volume models). 

The Pro Reverb is pretty much a Bandmaster Reverb in a combo. 
and the Bandmaster Reverb is pretty much a Super Reverb but with a smaller 4 ohm output transformer. 


can you tell us the year of the pro reverb??
I'm guessing for 799 it's a late 70s model with master volume. 
Don't let the master volume thing put you off. It may not sound as great as a blackface or early silverface but every silverface amp with master volume still sounds good. It's just a slightly different tone that people decided to not like. The whole "fender's master volume sucks" thing was made up by a bunch of morons.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Rugburn said:


> Does it have the Master volume? Is the rectifier solid state or tube? If the answer is yes to both questions, than it's too much money.
> 
> Shawn :wave:



Here is the pic.

http://brantford.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAd...tatic.com/cps/kj/090713/237r1/0066cne_18.jpeg

It looks like it has the master volume. If its the 70 watt SS rec then I'm not at all interested.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> Here is the pic.
> 
> [It looks like it has the master volume. If its the 70 watt SS rec then I'm not at all interested.


That's the mid 70's model. I don't blame the guy for wanting extra $$ for the upgraded speakers and cap job. You might like this amp for country, but yeah, it's not going to _feel_ like a BF PR as it is. For my money Faracaster's 65' Bassman is a steal compared to this.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

This site tracks Ebay auction prices on particular Fender amps and averages them out by month. Here's the link, scroll to the bottom and look at the average prices on the column on the left. 

http://www.ampwares.com/amp.asp?id=181

:food-smiley-004:


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Rugburn said:


> That's the mid 70's model. I don't blame the guy for wanting extra $$ for the upgraded speakers and cap job. You might like this amp for country, but yeah, it's not going to _feel_ like a BF PR as it is. For my money Faracaster's 65' Bassman is a steal compared to this.


How much is farcaster asking for his bassman? As for the Pro Reverb I don't know alot about them but I was under the impression they were something like a Twin Reverb but not as loud. Which is why I was interested in this amp.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> How much is farcaster asking for his bassman? As for the Pro Reverb I don't know alot about them but I was under the impression they were something like a Twin Reverb but not as loud. Which is why I was interested in this amp.


As *sesroh* said it's almost identical to the Bandmaster reverb head. A kickass country/jazz/rockabilly amp in it's BF and early SF incarnations. If your up to checking out the schematics look here:

http://www.schematicheaven.com/fender.htm

Faracaster's ad:

http://www.guitarscanada.com/Board/showthread.php?t=24612


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

*Surprise, surprise - the price went down*

Pro Reverb was just relisted on CL @ $700. You know, this isn't a bad price at all. The gain tones may not be up to par with higher end boutique amps, but the cleans and reverb will more than likely be beautiful.

What else can you get for $700 nowadays - a used Deville? No comparison.


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## sliberty (May 17, 2008)

When it comes to SF Fenders, I would stay away from anything that strays from the BF designs. In this case, the master volume is a dead giveaway that the circuit had begun to change by the time this Pro Reverb was built.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

sliberty said:


> When it comes to SF Fenders, I would stay away from anything that strays from the BF designs. In this case, the master volume is a dead giveaway that the circuit had begun to change by the time this Pro Reverb was built.


Changed circuitry or not, the clean channel will still sound wonderful and so will the reverb. The price is about 1/3 of what the blackface version would sell for - so it's still serious bang for the buck.

It would be challenging to find another hand-wired combo with with comparable power, better cleans, better reverb and at a cost less than $700. Very challenging indeed!


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## Caribou_Chris (Feb 15, 2009)

I have to agree. I had a SF Quad Reverb for a bit last year, and the cleans were tremendous on that amp. It had a master volume. The gain tones weren't that great, but using a TS-9 or Muff with it made a big difference.

A SF amp can be modded back to BF specs fairly easily by a good tech. Something to keep in mind. Spending much less on a SF and then having its circuit put back to BF specs would be a lot cheaper than shelling out for an original BF amp.

That being said, faracaster's BF Bassman is a good deal at $800. Friend of mine bought the same head a few years back for $1K, and thought it was a decent price at the time.


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## sesroh (Sep 5, 2006)

if the amp sounds good to you then it's all that matters


as I said before, the "silverface fender amps suck" thing was made up by morons. 

Most of the people who say "avoid the master volume or any silverface fender amps" have never owned one. 
I have played numerous Fender amps and there is a slight difference in tone but I wouldn't say any silverface sounds bad. Personally the silverface amps look so cool and they sound great. I have had a few master volume models and a non master volume model (the only thing I hated was the pull boost on the master volume. totally useless). 

I've played original blackfaces and reissues. I would never spend cash on an original blackface combo (just not worth it unless you convince yourself that you reaaally have to have one). The blackface reissues aren't anything near the originals. 

The only blackface amps I would buy are the heads (showman, bandmaster, and bassman). They can all be found for under $600. Prices will probably go up as time goes by.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

sesroh said:


> if the amp sounds good to you then it's all that matters
> 
> 
> as I said before, the "silverface fender amps suck" thing was made up by morons.
> ...



Tone is so very subjective. You had it right at "if it sounds good to you",,,,,, I often encourage people here and in conversations with fellow players to buy SF Fenders, for all the reasons mentioned. They're priced better and are far better built than the BF RIs. The later big SF amps like the Pro Reverb in question have ultralinear output transformers changing the nature of the tone. This can still appeal to many, many players, but coupled with transistor rectification it won't behave the way some players would like. I think that's valid and certainly doesn't make them "morons". Fenders are my favorite, especially the BF reverb models. There is however a certain trebly quality to them that is "enhanced" in some of the later SF models. 

Shawn.


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## sesroh (Sep 5, 2006)

Yes the ones with ultra linear transformers seem to have more treble, not to mention they stay pretty clean all the way up. 

People diss those amps way too much without even giving them a chance


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

sesroh said:


> Yes the ones with ultra linear transformers seem to have more treble, not to mention they stay pretty clean all the way up.
> 
> People diss those amps way too much without even giving them a chance


I think a lot of it is based on emotion and misperceptions. I played through a late 70's Super (with the UL transformer) just over a month ago and it had the best cleans I've ever heard. And it's not like my past history with amps is something to discount (Victoria, Bruno, Top Hat, Bad Cat, Boogie, Fender, Marshall, Fender, Ampeg, etc.).

I'm not a big fan of how the SF amps look - I can't stand the grillcloth colour or the actual faceplate, but I think they sound great.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

vds5000 said:


> I think a lot of it is based on emotion and misperceptions. I played through a late 70's Super (with the UL transformer) just over a month ago and it had the best cleans I've ever heard.


The best cleans *you've* ever heard.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

Rugburn said:


> The best cleans *you've* ever heard.


Yes, that is what I said.


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## sesroh (Sep 5, 2006)

vds5000 said:


> Yes, that is what I said.


don't worry
rugburn is obviously one of those guys who just can't let themselves like silverface amps.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

sesroh said:


> don't worry
> rugburn is obviously one of those guys who just can't let themselves like silverface amps.


It's all good. I don't think (from what I've read) that he's anti-silverface. I think he was just trying to prove a point.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

vds5000 said:


> I think a lot of it is based on emotion and misperceptions. I played through a late 70's Super (with the UL transformer) just over a month ago and it had the best cleans I've ever heard. And it's not like my past history with amps is something to discount (Victoria, Bruno, Top Hat, Bad Cat, Boogie, Fender, Marshall, Fender, Ampeg, etc.).
> 
> I'm not a big fan of how the SF amps look - I can't stand the grillcloth colour or the actual faceplate, but I think they sound great.


Well if what you want is all cleans then good on ya!
The problem that most Fender freaks have with the UL tranny amps is just that...no break up at all. Remember what makes Tweed and BF amps so desirable is that they have a characteristic overdriven tone as you increase the volume...this is in no small part to....you guessed it...the output transformer. Fender was more interested in how much output could be had using the same basic platform...and they achieved it...sort of...what they lost was that wonderful output transformer tone. UL transformers are excellent choices for home audio applications...not so great for guitar amps IMO.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

nonreverb said:


> Well if what you want is all cleans then good on ya!
> The problem that most Fender freaks have with the UL tranny amps is just that...no break up at all. Remember what makes Tweed and BF amps so desirable is that they have a characteristic overdriven tone as you increase the volume...this is in no small part to....you guessed it...the output transformer. Fender was more interested in how much output could be had using the same basic platform...and they achieved it...sort of...what they lost was that wonderful output transformer tone. UL transformers are excellent choices for home audio applications...not so great for guitar amps IMO.


You should try my Dr.Z Route 66, it might change how you feel about ultralinear transformers. I'll bring it to the amp/pedal thing in August if you come.


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## sliberty (May 17, 2008)

It's not about CBS, or the color of the panel. It is about the changes that were made inside the amp, and they are not just "perceived".

The trannies in the later SF Fenders are not just inferior tonally, but also from the standpoint of reliability. UL is not all bad in guitar amps (as mentioned, Dr. Z does good stuff with them), but Fender guitar amps with UL trannies just don't sound that great.

During that period, signal path and lead dress changes were being made that resulted in oscillations, and had to be dealt with by including snubbing caps, etc. Overall, tone suffered. Also, Fender did some pretty stupid things with bias in their later SF amps. These things can all be fixed of course with some wiring changes, but the trannie thing is a bit more of a semi-perm problem.

I must admit that I am not a big fan of ANY Fender clean tone except perhaps when a DR is used for Country music. So I am not in the camp that says that they offer the best cleans of any amp you'll ever hear. My favorite Fender sound is the fat, just barely overdriven sound of a BF/early SF Vibrolux Reverb or Pro Reverb. But that is just me. For cleans, I prefer the swirly chime of a VOX AC15/30.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

sesroh said:


> don't worry
> rugburn is obviously one of those guys who just can't let themselves like silverface amps.


This is not true at all. Thiis isn't something I care to make personal, but I do want to make myself clear. I'll restate that I *often recommend/encourage people to buy or take a good hard look at SF amps over RI Fenders and boutique offerings.* I'm not a fan of the later SF models, but if it sounds good to you then who cares?


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Rugburn said:


> This is not true at all. Thiis isn't something I care to make personal, but I do want to make myself clear. I'll restate that I *often recommend/encourage people to buy or take a good hard look at SF amps over RI Fenders and boutique offerings.* I'm not a fan of the later SF models, but if it sounds good to you then who cares?


Absolutely Rugburn...that's the main point after all:smile:


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## sesroh (Sep 5, 2006)

I probably just wouldn't get a pullboost fender again unless it's an incredible deal. 


The early master volume and the non master volumes sound great and if they don't, a retube and a cap job should do the trick.


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## fishin' musician (Jun 19, 2008)

I love my '70 Bandmaster Reverb, but I put in a Mercury Magnetics output tranny and choke and Blackfaced the bias circuit. I've never owned a Blackface of any sort so I have nothing to compare it too but I love my amps growl even at low volumes. My ears, not my blue book, tell me what gear to buy.


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## sesroh (Sep 5, 2006)

Bandmaster Reverbs are great. I really want to get another one. Unfortunately whenever I see them for sale around here people are asking an absolutely ridiculous price. 

I got mine for quite cheap. I would obviously pay the going rate for one if I had a chance to find another. Every one I've seen recently has been over $700 for the head only. Not to mention the douchebag from Tundra Music who wants $2500 for the stack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

sesroh said:


> Bandmaster Reverbs are great. I really want to get another one. Unfortunately whenever I see them for sale around here people are asking an absolutely ridiculous price.
> 
> I got mine for quite cheap. I would obviously pay the going rate for one if I had a chance to find another. Every one I've seen recently has been over $700 for the head only. Not to mention the douchebag from Tundra Music who wants $2500 for the stack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Tundra Music...hahaha - there's a name I haven't heard in years. There was a guy there who called me out of the blue years ago when I was selling my Les Pauls to raise money for tuition and rent. He kept trying to push me to trade them in for a 'Steavens' amp (not sure if I spelled it correctly).


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## sesroh (Sep 5, 2006)

he tried to convince me to trade my Orange AD30 and matching 2X12 cab for his Bandmaster Reverb head. He said I was getting an amazing deal because the Fender was worth more. 
Total douche.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

vds5000 said:


> Tundra Music...hahaha - there's a name I haven't heard in years. There was a guy there who called me out of the blue years ago when I was selling my Les Pauls to raise money for tuition and rent. He kept trying to push me to trade them in for a 'Steavens' amp (not sure if I spelled it correctly).


Ah yes...Good 'ol Ed McDonald...his name has come up on here before. I know him fairly well from the Torornto guitar shows and other places....seems he just can't shake his shady image...unfortunately, what's good for Ed isn't necessarily good for everyone else...


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