# Honestly, why aren't we more outraged!!!!



## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

If I hear 1 more person exclaim about the price of gas dropping this morning, I'm gonna freak! In the GTA from what I noticed this morning, it's till $1.34!!!! Why is it so high? If a barrell is $103.00 should it be much lower, when it reached it's record high in 2008 of $1.34 the price of a barrell was $148.00. So Somebody please explain WTF?????


----------



## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

Canadians are "all talk and no action" when it comes to protesting gas prices/tax hikes etc...we kinda sit back and wait to see if anyone else takes action...then quietly grumble about the situation...

We need a leader to fight for our rights...I nominate you...


----------



## Guest (May 12, 2011)

I barely drive. Maybe once a week now. So there's my protest.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

My take on gas for the last decade or so has been this.

In virtually every other area of life we expect prices to climb gradually. In some of those areas, we also expect sales in order to boost consumer interest when it wanes. And in all of those areas, with perhaps the sole exception of major purchases like homes and cars, or things we have no interest in or expectation of needing more than one of (e.g., washer/dryer ensembles), we have the freedom and inclination to take advantage of sales when they occur, and stock up.

If bananas are 39 cents a pound this week, I can go to the store and come home with 4 pounds, instead of the 1.5lbs I might normally purchase. I know they'll possibly go bad so I don't buy way more than I can manage, but I know that I am not limited to the number I can stuff in my mouth at the store. If pants or dishwasher detergent is on sale, I can stock up. Even if there are purchase limits of 6 per customer, I can go back for another visit and buy 6 more. My purchase power is limited by my money limits, not be how many pairs of pants I can put on at once, or how much detergent I can stuff in the dishwasher receptacle at once.

But gas.....gas I can only buy as much as fits in the remainder of my tank, and that's it. If I paid $1.38 yesterday and filled it to the 3/4 mark, then today it drops to $1.08, I can't buy more than another 1/4 tank. Moreover, when the flyers arrive on Thursday morning, and declare that store X has bananas for 39 cents a pound, I know that's the price they're gonna be until next Thursday evening. I don't know about your city, but around here, gas prices change several times a day sometimes, and at least a couple times a week. I can remember many times when I had to rush to get my wife to work on timem thinking I would gas up after I dropped her off, only to find out the price had just jumped 10 cents a litre during that 20-minute interval.

So, with no warnings or certainty about the duration of a price, and with no opportunity to take advantage of an opportunity (unless you come up lucky and the day the price drops you're running on empty), small wonder consumers are generally angry about gas prices.

I think the other factor one needs to consider is that consumers make rational decisions about where they live, predicated on essential travel costs. If a person decides that the cost of housing, and the relatively low cost of transportation with a 6-cylinder vehicle from the outskirts of town, makes economic sense, then that's where they live. But if the cost of that transportation (a cost you have to keep paying, not a one-shot cost assessment like home purchase) starts to mount, you can't just pick up and move to where the cumulative gas costs will be lower. Maybe if you're single, but that's not most of us.

So when a person finds themselves "boxed in", living a distance from their work or school, and a) forced by largely inescapable circumstance to pay increasing gas costs, and b) unable in any way to systematically reduce those costs by taking advantage of opportunities like they can for other consumer goods, they get VERY pissed off. It is about as frustrating a consumer situation as one might find.

Are gas distribution companies gouging? I don't know. But their erratic approach to pricing, and the inability of consumers to take "inflationary protective means" as they might with most other consumer goods, makes it FEEL like they are.


----------



## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Its because they can guoge us with no one to stop them, price of oil this morning was 96.70 a barrel and yet gas on the west coast is 1.41 a litre in Kamloops its a 1.09 the difference for us is our transit takes a giant tax from us on just about every thing. Its bad when even the speculators ( investors ) say its not us this time driving the price but the Oil companies are forcing the price even higher ( and thats after we are told the the reserves are almost at the very highest they can be stored ) as for price changes well that happens at 8:00 am and around 2:30 pm every day except for week-end and holidays.
No matter what we do its never going to be a true value ever again once oil companies realized that they can make giagantic profits and not give a hoot about how many workers are put out on the street or how someones gramma was not going to be able to eat more then cat food for the next week because she needs to drive grampa to the doctors more often and the cheques just won't strech that far, amkes me very sad.ship


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Maybe we need to send a message to government

http://www.gopetition.com/how-to-start-a-petition.php


----------



## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Maybe we need to send a message to government
> 
> http://www.gopetition.com/how-to-start-a-petition.php


Great Idea, but to whom do we send it so we're heard?


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Somebody is getting very very fat on this.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

As with many things I'm well past being outraged. Simply, nothing surprises me anymore, but I protest, sign petitions, write letters, and in this case, buy less gas and drive less frequently or as far. I don't want to be forced to change, but sometimes one doesn't have a choice. For this household, buying gas has become like other treats and luxeries, we save for it, and use it wisely. It long ago passed being pocket change.

Peace, Mooh.


----------



## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

the other thing that pisses alot of people off is that unlike other items we purchase, oil companies don't compete with each other for our buisness they seem to be in colusion competing against the consumer - they all charge the same price in the same areas! 

As far as government goes, they seem to be in colusion with the oil companies against their citizens and have alot of taxes (over 30% on average) and incentives attached to gas prices... check the riduculous differences in gas prices from country to country - anywhere from a couple of cents a litre in countries like Argentina and the Middle East to over $2 a litre in Europe, we are right around the middle of the gouge scale.


----------



## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

30% increase in the price of my groceries. I am paying for gas and I have not driven since 2004!


----------



## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

keeperofthegood said:


> 30% increase in the price of my groceries. I am paying for gas and I have not driven since 2004!


Yes there is that too. Especially when you want to eat a healthy fruit and veg rich diet. I have traded in my van on a wee Little Ford Fiesta, it arrives in a couple of weeks and I can't wait! the money I will save on fuel pays for the car payment. I know it was my choice to live outside the city, but we wanted a house with a backyard and a different quality of life than the city provides, not to mention the price of a detached in the city, but goes to show you pay for it one way or another.


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

And just today, it was announced the government is going to do....something http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/ottawa-to-grill-gas-industry-over-prices/article2019582/

You may not know this, but gasoline is itself traded as a commodity and so not just oil but gas itself is at the whim of speculators. Easy online trading, commodities trading access for the common man via ETFs, cheap money in the States (Quantitative Easing), low interest rates - all these things have led to more speculators than ever before pumping billions of dollars more than ever before into commodities markets. You can (attempt to) win betting higher or lower. The US announced it's highest inventory on hand in years yesterday - which you think would be bad, and crude did drop below $100 for the second time in a week - but as I write this it's back up to just pennies under that $100 mark. Flooding along the Mississippi possibly affecting refinerys that produce about 10% of the US supply, rather than reduced consumer and industrial demand, is what's in speculators minds this week. They're guessing supply is going to be short in the summer, ergo prices will go up, ergo I'd better buy some futures now, many lemmings pushing in the same direction on the commodities market are keeping prices high.

Not that the oil companies aren't in cahoots - it's pretty obvious, if very hard to prove. But, they're in business to make a buck and we live in a capitalist system...voting with your dollar is the main thing you can do, whether by driving less and using public (or other alternate, ie, cycle) transportation, driving a more fuel efficient vehicle, etc.


----------



## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

If you really want to protest, use your feet for trips under 1km and a bike for trips under 5km. 

We barely drive anymore (wife walks to work, I only work part-time from home) so gas prices aren't killing us, but I feel sorry for anyone who has to commute.

Groceries on the other hand, _are_ killing us, but the farmers market should open in a couple of weeks and we have a veggie garden in our yard.


----------



## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

oops! Got the dreaded double post... you never think its going to happen to you...


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Where's that Mob Smiley they have on TGP?

How can I be expected to protest without a Mob Smiley????????


----------



## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Where is Arlo Guthire when you need him?[video=youtube;5_7C0QGkiVo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_7C0QGkiVo[/video]

Come on! We need a good old fashioned protest song!


----------



## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Here's a good old fashioned protest song...
[video=youtube;tUH013avhjw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUH013avhjw[/video]

(I know, its bit off topic.)


----------



## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> If I hear 1 more person exclaim about the price of gas dropping this morning, I'm gonna freak! In the GTA from what I noticed this morning, it's till $1.34!!!! Why is it so high? If a barrell is $103.00 should it be much lower, when it reached it's record high in 2008 of $1.34 the price of a barrell was $148.00. So Somebody please explain WTF?????



Here is WTF, Starbuck. BEGIN RANT: The last time oil was at around $100/barrel, gas at the pump went up to 1.08 per litre. When the price per barrel dropped, that drop wasn't reflected e_qually_ in the pump price. In other words, the oil companies won't _ever_ give up their incremental profits and they will keep the pump price as high as they can, despite any drops in per-barrel price. It's called GREED and it rules the marketplace. END RANT


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Big_Daddy said:


> Here is WTF, Starbuck. BEGIN RANT: The last time oil was at around $100/barrel, gas at the pump went up to 1.08 per litre. When the price per barrel dropped, that drop wasn't reflected e_qually_ in the pump price. In other words, the oil companies won't _ever_ give up their incremental profits and they will keep the pump price as high as they can, despite any drops in per-barrel price. It's called GREED and it rules the marketplace. END RANT


Actually, just about everything that can be sold or traded in the world is done so by supply/demand and whatever the market can afford. Same with concert tickets. If the seats are full at $180 each, they will continue to be sold at $180 and maybe next year they will be $190. Nobody buys them you will see the price drop fast. Reduce the consumption of gasoline by 20% globally you will see the price drop fast.


----------



## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Reduce the consumption of gasoline by 20% globally you will see the price drop fast.


Nevermind a 20% drop. A 5% drop would send them scrambling. Maybe less.


----------



## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Big_Daddy said:


> Here is WTF, Starbuck. BEGIN RANT: The last time oil was at around $100/barrel, gas at the pump went up to 1.08 per litre. When the price per barrel dropped, that drop wasn't reflected e_qually_ in the pump price. In other words, the oil companies won't _ever_ give up their incremental profits and they will keep the pump price as high as they can, despite any drops in per-barrel price. It's called GREED and it rules the marketplace. END RANT


Of course! that's my point! The price jumps overnight to $1.41!!! NUTS! Then two days later it drops back to $1.34 and suddenly it looks cheaper!!!!!!!! Every year they have done this. People were freaking when it hit a buck, are we ever going to see a buck again???


----------



## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

Not likely (in our lifetime), lol.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

bw66 said:


> Nevermind a 20% drop. A 5% drop would send them scrambling. Maybe less.


Or it'd be like the water bill: "We need to raise rates to offset the drop in demand".

Better fuel economy hasn't helped. Conservation hasn't help. Increased public transit hasn't helped. Walking, riding a bike, car-pooling haven't helped. Alternative energy sources haven't helped........ These hugh business and government entities will always need feeding.


----------



## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

It's all going to be ok Tony Clemintine is on it ....


----------



## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

allthumbs56 said:


> Better fuel economy hasn't helped. Conservation hasn't help. Increased public transit hasn't helped. Walking, riding a bike, car-pooling haven't helped. Alternative energy sources haven't helped........


Except that none of these things have happened on a meaningful scale.


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I have arthritis in my knees and if I walk more than 2 km in a day, I can hurt enough to wanna kill something. (I don't take meds unless I really have to). It happens a lot because I don't won a car and use public transit, or a cab if I have a large haul. But at this price for petro, and if I did own a car, I think I'd rather go with the pain than pay that much.


----------



## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

Maybe...we the people...can pool our collective ideas and come up with an alternative unlimited supply of fuel...

There are cars that run on vegetable oil...and I know that electricity can be applied to water {H2O} to separate it into hydrogen and oxygen...

The technologies are kept hidden by the governments...

[video=youtube;Jivb7lupDNU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jivb7lupDNU[/video] 

[video=youtube;zZ2QciCN5Ks]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ2QciCN5Ks&feature=related[/video]


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

jimihendrix said:


> Maybe...we the people...can pool our collective ideas and come up with an alternative unlimited supply of fuel...
> 
> There are cars that run on vegetable oil...and I know that electricity can be applied to water {H2O} to separate it into hydrogen and oxygen...
> 
> ...


Have you seen the cost of water lately?


----------



## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Gas is still cheap here in North America. It's been over $2.00 per litre in Europe since the 90's. And why weren't we outraged paying $0.49 per litre when oil was only at $12 per barrel? If there were a direct correlation between raw crude prices and refined gas, then gas should be nearly $5.00 per litre now, or else we should have been paying $0.15 then. But it doesn't work that way. (see Keto's post)

Reasons it's high now mostly based on speculation, eg. higher demand in summer, unrest in ME, floods on Mississippi shutting down refineries, hurricane season starting, etc.


----------



## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Well the Republicans just passed the vote through congress called "Reversing President Obama's Offshore Moratorium Act". I think this is what happens when people become outraged with high gas prices. In other words, "screw the environment, screw public safety, screw the oceans and wildlife, I want my cheap gas!!!"

Now, it will be interesting to see just how low gas prices go now. LOL. I think the companies chomping at the bit (intentional pun) to start drilling offshore again are more concerned with getting at that $100 oil, and less concerned about what a great deal they can give you at the pump.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

bw66 said:


> Except that none of these things have happened on a meaningful scale.


It seems that in my area we conserved enough water that they saw fit to use that as the prime justification for a significant rate increase. If I recall correctly they jointly blamed private conservation and reduced manufacturing due to plant closures.


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I sent an email to my MP Elect. (No I didn't vote for him). I pointed this out and also noted I did not own a vehicle, but noted that most likely every one who voted for him does. Ask WTF is going to be done (not in those words mind you). I did this more just to see the response. Here it is...



> Hello and thank you for your recent email!
> 
> This issue is of concern to Chris as well and yesterday he spoke with the
> Minister of Industry, Tony Clement about his concerns.
> ...


----------



## Jocko (May 17, 2010)

I am paying £1.40 (GBP) a litre at the moment. I only use my car if absolutely necessary. I have stopped using the air con. I try to stick to 50mph whenever I can. The problem in the UK is that so many cars are company owned and company fuelled and these drivers don't give a toss about fuel saving. If EVERYONE in the UK cut their fuel use by 5% prices would tumble.
The price of fuel in the UK is so high because of Taxes. They even tax the fuel tax by adding VAT (purchase tax) on top.
Two years ago they were forecasting the £5 a gallon fuel and everyone was up in arms. Now it is almost £7 a gallon and the UK drivers have rolled over.


----------



## urko99 (Mar 30, 2009)

Honestly, what is the incentive for the government to do anything about radical, unexplainable Gas prices, *when the tax imposed on us is based on a percentage of the sale*. *The more gas is...... the more the government makes. It's really that simple*. Corruption at it's best. This infuriates me to no end!


----------



## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

I'm driving a dual fuel propane conversion. So I can select either fuel.

I get about 600 km per 80 liter fill up. Propane is about half the price of gas.

I can fill up for around $50 at $.65/l.


----------



## avalancheMM (Jan 21, 2009)

It's funny you mention propane - where I live many oil wells have been producing since the 50's, and don't gush the way they once did. We do, however, have enormous quantities of natural gas. The price of natural gas is in the toilet, so low that many companies aren't even drilling for it until the price comes back up. Propane is a by product of natural gas, not oil, and should consequently be almost free. The trouble with the price of fuel is rooted in consumption, and the traders that speculate on pricing. When I was a teen -mid 80's - my little town of 10000 had twice as many gas stations as now, but everybody drove V8 guzzlers. Slowly, consumers got smarter, starting buying with fuel efficiency in mind, and many of those stations closed. Enter the Ford and Dodge V10, the Hemi, the Hummer, Expedition, SUV, and the return of marketable large vehicles. The way to fight back is to reduce dependence on fossil fuels wherever possible. And at the risk of adding to the problem, buy stock in those oil companies that profit. (wouldn't hurt to buy bank stock and insurance company stock, they NEVER lose money either) JMHO. 

Regards

Regards


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Fader said:


> I'm driving a dual fuel propane conversion. So I can select either fuel.
> 
> I get about 600 km per 80 liter fill up. Propane is about half the price of gas.
> 
> I can fill up for around $50 at $.65/l.


As long as propane is a bit of an exception to the rule you will benefit. If everyone started switching then the price would skyrocket - just like diesel did........


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

*Conspiracy theories anyone????*


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

Sneaky said:


> Well the Republicans just passed the vote through congress called "Reversing President Obama's Offshore Moratorium Act". I think this is what happens when people become outraged with high gas prices. In other words, "screw the environment, screw public safety, screw the oceans and wildlife, I want my cheap gas!!!"
> 
> Now, it will be interesting to see just how low gas prices go now. LOL. I think the companies chomping at the bit (intentional pun) to start drilling offshore again are more concerned with getting at that $100 oil, and less concerned about what a great deal they can give you at the pump.


Well, if there was no incentive for profit they'd never drill then, would they? See AvalancheMM's post, lots of natural gas to be had but no profitability so no new drilling.

I don't think anyone's as insensitive as to feel like your 'in other words' part.


----------



## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

keto said:


> I don't think anyone's as insensitive as to feel like your 'in other words' part.


HA! You're kidding right?

I believe the purpose of the moratorium was to stop any new deep water drilling until they could figure out a "fail safe" operation so a repeat of the BP "spill" (LOL) doesn't happen. To my knowledge nothing has changed. 

Don't get me wrong, I've worked in the energy industry since I was 17 years old. I'm not one of these "Big Oil is Evil" types. I am a strong advocate of development in the oilsands in Alberta. I am also aware that most oil company profits go into further exploration and development which translates into jobs. Millions of them. 

But this latest move by Congress would just appear to be a way to make sure their buddies, er, puppet masters, can start drilling NOW, while it's over $100, while thowing caution to the wind.


----------



## NGroeneveld (Jan 23, 2011)

Cheap oil is finished. You don't have to read any of the many books available on the topic of peak oil and subsequent decline of crude to understand this. Deep water drilling and arctic exploration demonstrate to anyone how desperate oil companies are to find new sources. It won't be long before we all look back on the days of cheap oil, when gas was $1.40 per litre.


----------



## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

when I first moved to Kamloops BC there was a gas price war going on and we had the lowest gas prices in the country @ around 40cents a litre. Safeway had just opened a gas station in town and wanted to win over some buisness so the undercut prices, all the other stations in town had to follow suit or lose buisness. taking the bus or using less gas won't drive prices down, but targeting one company would. There was a movement started a couple of years ago online to try to get as many people as possible to boycot Petro Can gas in an attempt to start a downward price war. Obviously they did not manage to persuade a critical mass. 

do alternate clean an abundant energy systems exist? Yup. Is there any incentive for governments to disclose or even promote them? Nope. Is there any incentive for governments to pressure oil companies to reduce their prices? Nope.


----------



## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

It's the beauty of capitalism. At the end of the day we pay the price or don't drive.


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I think that using H2O as an alternative fuel source is *not* the way to go. This will be the next "commodity" that wars will be started over. You can opt to not drive but you* have* to have water.
Natural gas is cheap right now because of the newest method of "fracking" which releases the trapped gas from shale deep underground. There are huge deposits of this through the states and the north. I recently watched a documentary on this subject and it was scary.
Hole is drilled, millions of gallons of water and other chemicals are forced into the ground. Firstly, using all that water, polluting it, and then injecting it back into the earth seems crazy to me. Secondly, the after effect is that it poisons the existing ground water. In the doc I saw, people around these sites were able to set their tap water on fire. There's your cheap propane. It seems to be on par with Exxon Valdez, the Gulf disaster, just harder to prove and not as obvious.


----------



## Presto1202 (Dec 8, 2010)

urko99 said:


> Honestly, what is the incentive for the government to do anything about radical, unexplainable Gas prices, *when the tax imposed on us is based on a percentage of the sale*. *The more gas is...... the more the government makes. It's really that simple*. Corruption at it's best. This infuriates me to no end!


Is that how it works in Ontario? Here in California it's not based on a % (unless something has changed in the last few years). It's a flat amount so higher gas prices that lead to people buying less fuel isn't good for the state government either. Gas here is about $1.06 a liter.


----------

