# Amp Thoughts & Advice



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

I'm about to start jamming, first with a drummer then hopefully others as things progress.

I currently have a Fender SCXD with a Rajin Cajun speaker and I have been really pleased with sounds & volume this is capable of. I am uncertain however if this will be sufficient for jamming so I am researching new amp possibilities and I have entered yet another quagmire of information overload.

If I was to upgrade, to what level should I consider? Would a 1x12 be considered minimum? I haven't messed with the settings on the SCXD since I sorted out my tone preference, which, according to the Fender manual is described as "A bright jangly tone reminiscent of early British combo amplifiers". Okay.

My musical preferences are harder edged modern rock, I am not into metal, death or otherwise, I am not really into the blues but can appreciate that it forms the basis of so much music, I like a touch of crunch and growl & I don't play much on the clean channel. I also don't have any pedals as that's another area I have zero knowledge of and haven't entered that arena either. That's going to have to be another discussion.

I have tried a Traynor YGL1 but didn't love it. maybe it needed pedals, I don't know.

L&M has their clearance sale coming up & 0% on everything so my timing works. I would say budget to be around $800 or so.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!!


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

If you like your amp hold on to it and see how well it works in a jam. Make sure the speaker is somewhat pointed at your ears or at least not just pointed to the back of your legs. You definitely won't hear yourself that way and will want a bigger amp that you might not need. 
A nice OD or boost will work wonders in a jam situation.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

LanceT said:


> "A bright jangly tone reminiscent of early British combo amplifiers".


A new AC15 or used a AC30?

[video=youtube_share;L5RSaECdCrQ]http://youtu.be/L5RSaECdCrQ[/video]


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

New Fender 68 Custom Deluxe Reverb. Should probably qualify for 0% .A pedal or two for dirt. OCD, Full Tone Full Drive 2, or maybe a Sparkledrive for dirt. Maybe something harder if you need more.
If you want scooped higher gain stuff, maybe a Blackstar?


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

With a budget of $800 I would probably go with Traynor. Try some other models, they're not all the same. However, if you bump that budget up to $1200 there are a ton of options from many more manufacturers. Hello '68 CDR...gawd I would love one of those...kinda digging the Super Sonic 22s too (not in that hideous blonde though) the drive channel(s) in those is nice to have if you don't yet have pedal mania.

Generally, I would look for all tube, regular size cabinet or bigger (not a tiny Blues Jr. size), at least a 1x12, 20w-50w.

Lower wattage amps can be great, mic'd into a PA or whatever, but I'm assuming with just you and a drummer that probably won't be an option right now. You and a Blues Jr playing with a drummer straight up...forget about it (unless he's 92 and pretty frail).


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

$800 gets you a used mesa F series or DC series as well - have a look there. Also consider the peavey classic 30.


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## notjoeaverage (Oct 6, 2008)

If you like your current amp, pick up a used 2x12 and put some high efficiency speakers in it at least 100db like one of Celestion G12H's or Vintage 30's


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

If you like your sound, stick to your current amp until you have a need for something else. It sounds like you're not sure. That makes sense. Give it time. You can also rent from L&M in the future to try different amps out. 

Take it from a guy who got rid of his nice combo + ext for a head and a 4x12 based on a false need. I started playing with guys with huge equipment and was sure I would be overpowered. But I never gave my old trusty gear a chance. Now I'm not in that band anymore and I'm trying to get rid of the 4x12!


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I agree that if you like that amp now, possibly try it with a 2x12.
You'll be able to get use out of the cab at home or at a jam too.

I run a YGL1 with the band I'm I, but yes, I run a pedal board through the amp.
I'm also using a 1x12 cab with the combo, Weber Blue Dog in the combo, Silver Bell in the closed back cab.

It may depend on the drummer, or overall volume of the whole, to determine just how much power you'd need.
I used my Fender Twin on low, 25 watts, in a three piece with a hard hitting drummer without issues.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

The OP mentioned the great timing of the L&M sale with the 0% financing...so I'm guessing the $800 budget isn't necessarily $800 cash. I agree though, used is the way to go if you can round up the cash.


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## fretzel (Aug 8, 2014)

Give a traynor ycs50 a try. Seen them used for $500.


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

The rule of thumb when it comes to gaining volume by adding watts is that it takes a multiplier of 10 to double the volume of an amp. Accordingly a 150W amp is only twice as loud as a 15W amp. What that equates to is that even if you go out and buy an amp that is 20 or even 40 watts bigger you aren't going to get all that much more volume. Unless you plan on playing at ear shattering volumes when set up right the SCXD can do anything that a 30-50W amp can do. If you like the sound of the amp you've got then why spend a bunch of bucks to buy a new one? I'd try using the SCXD with the RC alone first. If you need to push more air add an extension cabinet. I think the X2 cab with speaker is like $200. If you need more volume add a boost pedal.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Keep in mind that lower wattage means it will break up earlier at higher volumes. I would not expect a super champ to stay clean next to a drummer, though look into an amp stand first. Anything aimed at your feet will seem quiet.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm with the try your SCXD first. I've seen posts here where it's been used for jamming with band members and been just fine. The 1 x 12 or 2 x 12 cab is a good idea if you think you need more volume and so is the boost pedal.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Budda said:


> Keep in mind that lower wattage means it will break up earlier at higher volumes. I would not expect a super champ to stay clean next to a drummer, though look into an amp stand first. Anything aimed at your feet will seem quiet.


Bear with me on this-I'm seriously inexperienced with this stuff-, by break up earlier, do you mean as in unwanted distortion from the speaker at high volume? Would this still happen with a separate speaker cab as has been suggested?

I did mount my amp about face level with the drummer after sitting where he would be to be certain the amp would be in his face as much as possible.


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

LanceT said:


> Bear with me on this-I'm seriously inexperienced with this stuff-, by break up earlier, do you mean as in unwanted distortion from the speaker at high volume? Would this still happen with a separate speaker cab as has been suggested?
> 
> I did mount my amp about face level with the drummer after sitting where he would be to be certain the amp would be in his face as much as possible.


Early break up refers to the fact that lower wattage tube amps tend to reach saturation and go into overdrive mode sooner than high wattage amps do. For instance a 22W Deluxe Reverb will begin to break up at about 4 on the volume dial whereas an 85W Twin Reverb won't start to break up until around 7 or 8. Hence if you want clean tone at loud volumes most who choose to use lower wattage amps will mic their speaker through a PA allowing them to increase their clean volume without driving their amp into distortion. For players like myself who like to do loud cleans without a PA watts are very important. For others who play primarily over driven, not so much.

As far as the speakers go the thing to know is that volume is the amount of db's your speaker is delivering. Increasing wattage is the most inefficient and costly way to get more db's. In fact, unless you're wanting to go to a much larger, more expensive and heavier amp, installing high efficiency speakers will give you a respectable volume increase and is often the better way to go. Presence, on the other hand is the apparent volume that a listener perceives due to how well the speakers are filling the room with sound. Sometimes called "pushing air". In general more and or larger speakers equals better presence.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

The unwanted distortion is more likely the power amp stage and not the speaker. All power amps can distort, not just tube amps but transistor amps too. 

But when tubes saturate, they sound good. When transistors saturate, babies cry, women faint and men start fights. Its awful. And that's why you see 200W transistor guitar amps and not many low powered ones (like 5W). Its cheap and easy to build a bigger output stage so it doesn't distort. All the desirable 'distortion' tone of a xistor amp is created in the pre-amp and passed cleanly through the power amp, which has little affect on the tone, just makes it louder. With a small tube amp, the output stage can be a part of the tone.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

A used boutique EL84 combo with some headroom (like a kingsley keep or Dr. Z Maz 18) or a new AC15 would be perfect. There was a keep for sale on the forum for under 600$ before christmas.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

A Keep for $600 is a killer deal. I see Version1 Vox NightTrain's for under $400 every now and then. I think it's a very under-rated 15W lunchbox. People seemed disappointed that the half power or thick switches weren't footswitchable, but that was never the point. It's a one-sound-at-a-time amp, but with a better tone stack and more tonal variety than the TT, IMO.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

zdogma said:


> A used boutique EL84 combo with some headroom (like a kingsley keep or Dr. Z Maz 18) or a new AC15 would be perfect. There was a keep for sale on the forum for under 600$ before christmas.


His SCXD is already 15 watts. Why would an AC15 be any louder? Is it because it is a true tube amp? I notice the AC15 also has a 1 x 12 speaker vs. the SCXD which has a 1 x 10" speaker.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> His SCXD is already 15 watts. Why would an AC15 be any louder? Is it because it is a true tube amp? I notice the AC15 also has a 1 x 12 speaker vs. the SCXD which has a 1 x 10" speaker.


The speakers and voicing. Someones maz sr cuts through a 100W high gain head like butter because its voiced differently.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Budda said:


> The speakers and voicing. Someones maz sr cuts through a 100W high gain head like butter because its voiced differently.


Thanks, Budda. I figured the speakers would have a lot to do with it but I didn't think the voicing would make that much of a difference.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

maybe rent an extension cab and run your current amp and see what you think. i suspect a 2x12 as was mentioned earlier, would do the trick


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: Amp Thoughts &amp; Advice*



Budda said:


> The speakers and voicing. Someones maz sr cuts through a 100W high gain head like butter because its voiced differently.


Yes indeed, voicing, wider frequency response and speakers all make a huge difference.

- - - Updated - - -

The 212 would probably help a lot. The 10 inch special design speaker in the super champ is pretty low efficiency, I'd guess about 97 dB, a 212 with celestions would make a huge difference.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

cheezyridr said:


> maybe rent an extension cab and run your current amp and see what you think. i suspect a 2x12 as was mentioned earlier, would do the trick


That's the direction I am currently leaning in the event I need to do anything at this point. First test is tonight and we'll go from there.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

1st session and the jury says, loud enough but not enough volume and/or character is how I would describe it. I guess the 10" speaker simply doesn't project enough so it sounds somewhat harsh & tinny. Worked for what we were up to but changes, they are a comin' & the learning curve continues upwards. 
Thanks for all the input thus far!!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

A number of owners have changed out the 10" speaker and put in a 12" (it seems there is enough room for it) and if I remember correctly, the speaker of choice was the Ragin' Cajun.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> A number of owners have changed out the 10" speaker and put in a 12" (it seems there is enough room for it) and if I remember correctly, the speaker of choice was the Ragin' Cajun.


Actually, the Rajin' Cajun' is a 10" speaker and I have one in my Princeton Reverb. It is several decibels more efficient than the stock driver 102 Db?) which, if I recall correctly, results in a perceived doubling of volume- 3 or 4 decibels results in doubled volume and this can be achieved by doubling the RMS wattage or using a more efficient speaker (something like that anyway). Simply adding a second speaker will sometimes reduce the perceived volume because of the way the power is now split - either down the middle or more to the one of lowest resistance). I have, but have not had luck with extension cabs unless I want more "spread" or a different tone. The extension cabs I have tried never seemed to make me louder - best you try one before you commit. 

I will jam with a band using my PR and it will work great as long as my bandmates don't go crazy. A solid, high-efficiency 10"speaker can really make some noise.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

allthumbs56 said:


> Actually, the Rajin' Cajun' is a 10" speaker and I have one in my Princeton Reverb. It is several decibels more efficient than the stock driver 102 Db?) which, if I recall correctly, results in a perceived doubling of volume- 3 or 4 decibels \


Thanks for the correction. I must have been thinking of two or more different posts.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Stole this from elsewhere:

_Tone Tubby San Rafael -- 94.0 dB
Jensen C10Q -- 95.2 dB
__Legend 102-8 -- 97.4 dB_
_Jensen 10-70 -- 98.2 dB
Jensen Neo 10-100 -- 98.9 dB
Copperhead -- 99.0 dB
Lil' Buddy -- 99.1 dB
Ragin Cajun / Ramrod -- 100 dB
Legend 105-8 -- 100 dB
Red Fang -- 102.1 dB_

The Red Fang is noticeably louder than all the others listed here. It has an AlNiCo magnet (unlike the others) and, hence, is also noticeably more expensive. 

If it was me though, I'd be looking for a 1x12 extension cab to load an uber efficient 12" speaker into. There are numerous efficient 12" speaker options on the market, many of which are quite affordable. IMO, your SC will still sound "boxy" with any speaker you load into it's small cab, which is why I'd skip trials with other speakers in there and go straight to a larger ext cab with 12" speaker(s).


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