# New Lead Singer?



## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

OK, here's another of those "What should I do?" posts. You guys always have SOME good opinions lofu, so let's have em!

My band is three guys, two of us sing while we play, we're well established with decent repeat gigs, we all get along well. If I have any gripes, it's just getting bored of doing the same old songs. But we do OK as a band, so we don't NEED to change anything at all. 

Then opportunity knocked... hence my question: 

*Should we hire a new lead singer to front our band?* 

There is a specific candidate in mind, I'm purposely not disclosing details for now because I want to see some initial reactions first. I may reveal more later, depending on your replies.

Ok..... GO!


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

yes but only if she's a real hotty....LOL

cheers
RIFF


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## Tarl (Feb 4, 2006)

Robboman...you seem bored with the status quo so change seems to be in order. Maybe a new singer will challenge your musical horizons a bit and spice up the band.


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## PaulS (Feb 27, 2006)

If he or she is a good front person then they actually can help the image of the band, and you have more time to play your instrument... Played with a few good front people, they know how to handle the audience.


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## searchin4signal (Sep 23, 2006)

Ask yourselves.....

"Will our band benefit by having ____________________ for a lead singer ?"


It should be a YES or NO answer.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Really depends on the individual in my opinion.

A strong lead singer can be a huge asset to a band. It also allows you to enjoy playing your instruments more, not having so much of the vocal burden to carry.

Money is not important to me in that context, but if it is to you, I guess you have to know whether the venues you play will ante up for the extra body.


Does the person play any instruments at all?

Can they cover a variety of tones or are they a one trick pony?

Male or female? Sorry but this factor can have a huge impact on a band for a number of reasons some musical, some not.

There are lots of things to consider.

Good luck.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...on the one hand, if it ain't broken...!

on the other hand, its important to embrace life, and opportunity.

my best advice is to allow everyone a "trial period".

-dh


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

Thanks all. Funny how gender came up quickly though I intentionally didn't specify.



> Male or female? Sorry but this factor can have a huge impact on a band for a number of reasons some musical, some not.


For the record, *she's female*. I absolutely agree, Milkman. There's a lot to consider based on gender alone. For one thing... 



> yes but only if she's a real hotty....LOL


RIFF WRATH was joking I think, but it poses a valid question. How much does that part matter? I DON'T mean for personal fringe benefits. lofu I'm talking about image, crowd appeal, marketability. One of my goals is to get more, bigger and better gigs in the future. 

Honestly, if you could choose between a beautiful girl with a average talent and the opposite, which would you choose?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Robboman said:


> Thanks all. Funny how gender came up quickly though I intentionally didn't specify.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I would choose the opposite if by that you mean an average looking girl with a beautiful voice.

In a heartbeat.

Best choice for success? Depends on your definition of success.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Robboman said:


> For the record, *she's female*. I absolutely agree, Milkman. There's a lot to consider based on gender alone. For one thing...


...i achieved a lifelong dream of working with girl singers in a recent band. it was an amazing experience.

as with men, women can have their downsides, however. rehearsals got canned in favour of "social engagements", and i eventually began to question the level of commitment.

still, i love a great female voice, and would definitely go down that road again, eyes wide open.

-dh


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

Milkman said:


> I would choose the opposite if by that you mean an average looking girl with a beautiful voice.
> 
> In a heartbeat.
> 
> Best choice for success? Depends on your definition of success.


I agree whole-heartedly with Milkman, however - I've said this more than a few times - people hear with their eyes, not with thier ears.

It's sad, but true.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2007)

Robboman said:


> Honestly, if you could choose between a beautiful girl with a average talent and the opposite, which would you choose?


Way back I auditioned for a band with a female singer.
Very attractive. I left after two sessions because the guys
were too busy hitting on her instead of focusing on their
playing. I'd rather play with someone like a Janis Joplin.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Hamm Guitars said:


> I agree whole-heartedly with Milkman, however - I've said this more than a few times - people hear with their eyes, not with thier ears.
> 
> It's sad, but true.


Tell me something I don't know.

But, buying into it is a bit like saying I know there's racism or sexism but what the heck can _I_ do about it.

I guess perhaps that's being a bit melodramatic, but as I tend to listen with my ears it has always irked me that potentially brilliant artists have abandoned careers in music because they were not camera friendly or visually appealing.

So, as I implied in my previous post, if your definition of success is based on marketability, go with the eye candy. If you want to make better music, go with the more talented singer.:food-smiley-004:


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

Good feedback, thanks. I've never been in a band with a woman. All I know is that booking agents LOVE bands with good looking girl singers. It translates directly into $$$. 

I agree that talent has to come first though. This particular singer happens to be both talented and attractive. I've seen her perform and I think she has great potential, but;


She's younger than us
She has little working band experience

So lets have your thoughts on those two factors next please!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Robboman said:


> Good feedback, thanks. I've never been in a band with a woman. All I know is that booking agents LOVE bands with good looking girl singers. It translates directly into $$$.
> 
> I agree that talent has to come first though. This particular singer happens to be both talented and attractive. I've seen her perform and I think she has great potential, but;
> 
> ...


Both will require patience on your part and neither are gender specific. Working with people who have to be told things you take for granted can be frustrating at times, but in my opinion it's worth it if the oindividual has a positive attitude and is respectful of your experience.

It's a matter of stopping to think before assuming she knows what to do.


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2007)

Age shouldn't matter (unless she's a minor).
As for experience, she'll gain that if she's
motivated and inspired.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

We've just added a woman to our band, she plays keyboards, flute and has an absolutely killer voice.

but the other thing she brought with her was years of experience. 

That's the thing I'd be most worried about Rob. Are you ready to take on someone without experience?

And the band dynamic is going to change. Are you okay with that?

Adding a woman's voice can be an amazing jump for the band, but in my experience there are shitloads of women that think they can sing, cause they sing in the shower and in the car, or do the karaoke thing, so approach her exactly as you would if you were thinking of hiring a guy to front your band. The bottom line is that, no matter how great she might look, she better be able to deliver the goods when the lights come up.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

*Another Point of View*

Well I’ve been following this thread with some interest. I’ve been hesitant to respond cause I don’t want to offend anyone, nor do I want you to think I’m offended cause I’m not. Sadly, the responses are not surprising. Kudos to Milkman and DH for standing up and saying it’s ultimately all about the music. 

I understand perfectly that men do in fact hear with their eyes and it’s men to who buy the booze and make the bars their money. Not a problem. In the same vein when Rockstar Supernova was on I was well aware that no matter how great Storm and Dilana were, they were never making it to the end cause you just knew those guys didn’t want to be fronted by a woman. Good looking, talented or not. I have to ask, why?

Cheesy, acts like Celine Dion, Shania Twain, ect are HUGE sellers, I’m not disputing their talent at all. I do however dispute the talent of someone like Britteny Spears or Avril Lavigne who are all image to be exploited and very little talent. Big draws just the same. I have sympathize with Ann and Nancy Wilson who just got reamed when the 80’s came and record companies all of a sudden didn’t care about the music, but the image for their videos. Now there is a woman with Pipes. You know they took the videos of them and stretched the images so she wouldn’t appear so, ahem, stout? Now that’s a shame. Likewise Jann Arden has a great documentary called Jann takes Manhatten and the whole time record company exes keep telling her she’s great but she should lose weight. She’s talented and VERY funny to watch. It makes me yearn for a singer like Janis Joplin to come along and set people on their ear. I have High hopes for Amy Winhouse cause she’s different for the times. Sadly another train wreck waiting to happen.

What I do wonder is why it makes such a huge difference in a casual setting. I’ve posted about it before and to my dismay I have not been able to find anyone to get together with. I’ve posted ads, answered ads that seem taylor made for me, and when I respond with my e-mail address that obviously shows I’m a woman the correspondence stops. Why is that? I make it clear that I’m married and have a family and pose no threat in that area. There are no pictures so the way I look should not even factor into it. I have since given up and realised that I just have to make do with myself. I’ll record and harmonize with myself.. Again I have to ask why? Anyway, just another point of view.

Cheers!
SB


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

Starbuck, thanks for your insightful comments.



> I understand perfectly that men do in fact hear with their eyes and it’s men to who buy the booze and make the bars their money.


I agree that they 'hear with their eyes' to some extent, but not sure about the second part of this statement. Clearly there are WAY more men in gigging bands, doing 'male' material, but the crowd is 50/50. I think the bands that appeal more to women have a big advantage in getting the best gigs. That appeal can be increased through style, song choice and other factors, but one obvious way is to actually have a woman in the band! I believe that's the main reason that agents love female singers, it's more about appealing to both genders than having some hot chick in front just for guys to stare at. If you compare the personal music collections of women and men, you'll find more female artists in the woman's collection than the mens. 

Here's a little story from personal experience. Way back when I auditioned and got into the lineup of a new all-male band made up of some very strong, experienced players. The key to this band was the singer/frontman. He was sort of mediocre as a guitarist and singer, but he LOOKED like a STAR. Like Brad Pitt only rock and roll. He was so good looking it was actually weird. Due to this he already had the backing of the largest booking agency around here, and a promise that as soon as he got a band together with rehearsed material, he would book the gigs (never mind hearing the band first). 



> In the same vein when Rockstar Supernova was on I was well aware that no matter how great Storm and Dilana were, they were never making it to the end cause you just knew those guys didn’t want to be fronted by a woman. Good looking, talented or not. I have to ask, why?


No idea, actually.. I would have gone with Storm! Look how well Supernova is doing these days as a band. :zzz: They made the wrong choice! But I think at that level they don't really need to have broad appeal. They were targeting the hardrock / metal / punk crowd and for an international act, that market is plenty big enough. Unlike a bar band that sometimes has to go from rock to country to pop, and always keep people dancing and drinking.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Robboman said:


> If you compare the personal music collections of women and men, you'll find more female artists in the woman's collection than the mens.


Not this woman, I'll be the first to admit that I need to hear a pretty strong voice to be attracted to it, so I really don't have alot of females in my collection. (+truth be told I lean a bit toward the metal side of musical tastes) Although I do really enjoy a good singer songwriter and love Sheryl Crow even though I can't say she has the best of voices. But for Girl bands (except the Dixie Chicks, They rock!) not really for me.




Robboman said:


> Here's a little story from personal experience. Way back when I auditioned and got into the lineup of a new all-male band made up of some very strong, experienced players. The key to this band was the singer/frontman. He was sort of mediocre as a guitarist and singer, but he LOOKED like a STAR. Like Brad Pitt only rock and roll. He was so good looking it was actually weird. Due to this he already had the backing of the largest booking agency around here, and a promise that as soon as he got a band together with rehearsed material, he would book the gigs (never mind hearing the band first).


Now that makes me sad. Looks mean nothing and I admit that my line of thinking isn't like all women's 





Robboman said:


> Look how well Supernova is doing these days as a band. :zzz: They made the wrong choice!.


No kidding, I have always called them Rockstar, Super No One! Never could take a show serious that called Gilby Clarke a legend! I always called him Izzy's replacement.

Anyway thanks for the response. I appreciate it.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Starbuck50 said:


> No kidding, I have always called them Rockstar, Super No One! Never could take a show serious that called Gilby Clarke a legend! I always called him Izzy's replacement.
> 
> Anyway thanks for the response. I appreciate it.


Signed.

After seeing him massacre Solsbury Hill on the show, I shook my head in disbelief.

Lots of feathers but not much chicken.

Rafael from the house band made Gilby look like a beginner.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Signed.
> 
> After seeing him massacre Solsbury Hill on the show, I shook my head in disbelief.
> 
> ...


Oh Dear! I remember that it was SO bad. That house band Rocked though. I don't even know why I watched it. LOL! 

The funny thing is I also remember him saying how difficult Solisbury Hill was to play and laughing cause it really was one of the first songs I learned. I guess the viewing public is generally very gullible.:smile:


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

Back to my band for a bit, just to be clear where I stand:

This new singer will be hired only if and when we are collectively convinced of three things:

1). That the band will improve MUSICALLY with her in it. That comes first. 

2). That we'll all get along well and collectively have more FUN with this band with her in it. Hey, it better be fun, the money's not that great! A big part of the fun factor, for me, is simply being due for some kind of a change. This will force us to get some new songs, etc. 

3). That her younger age and lack of experience won't hurt. One possibility - what if she's all excited to join a band, but then after a few months of rehearsals and late night bar gigs she finds out that it's NOT ALL glamour and fun.. there's actually HARD WORK involved too. I'm not really sure how her work ethic is, unfortunately we'd only find out after investing a lot of time.

Then there's the money issue, not such a big deal to me but might be for the other guys. Will we make as much per person? Hard to say, I think it's quite possible to make MORE over time. There ARE some small rooms we play now that simply couldn't afford to pay more, but then there's other rooms with bigger budgets that we have yet to get ourselves into. 

Her gender, If anything, is an advantage as far as I'm concerned. Laristotle posted something interesting before...



> Way back I auditioned for a band with a female singer.
> Very attractive. I left after two sessions because the guys
> were too busy hitting on her instead of focusing on their
> playing. I'd rather play with someone like a Janis Joplin.


Well, I hope we're way more professional than that. Two of us are married anyway. However.. the third is going through a divorce right now. Naturally I could speculate scenarios of him trying to hook up with her.. depending how it turns out that could cause all sorts of grief as you could imagine.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Robboman said:


> 3). That her younger age and lack of experience won't hurt. One possibility - what if she's all excited to join a band, but then after a few months of rehearsals and late night bar gigs she finds out that it's NOT ALL glamour and fun.. there's actually HARD WORK involved too. I'm not really sure how her work ethic is, unfortunately we'd only find out after investing a lot of time.



...this is the one issue that i would advise addressing clearly and assertively, up front.

i wasted a lot of years assuming that musicians who purport to be musicians and who claim to love music therefore love playing music.

most, i have discovered, don't. they may, indeed, have some reason for playing music, whether it be ego gratification or the faint hope of attracting the opposite sex, but sheer love of playing is not their motivator.

now, when i audition musicians, i look for some kind of assurance that they are truly "driven".

-dh


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2007)

david henman said:


> i wasted a lot of years assuming that musicians who purport to be musicians and who claim to love music therefore love playing music.
> 
> most, i have discovered, don't. they may, indeed, have some reason for playing music, whether it be ego gratification or the faint hope of attracting the opposite sex, but sheer love of playing is not their motivator.










+







= groupie factor


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

Audition / jam with the new singer is set for this Sun. I've already seen her perform on stage so I know what she can do. Other guys have yet to meet her.

So we'll see! I'll update next week.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Good Luck! I hope she's Awesome!


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2007)

Yeah, let the good times roll and


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

laristotle said:


> I'd rather play with someone like a Janis Joplin.


That's what I was thinking after the female component became part of the equation.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Starbuck50 said:


> I have High hopes for Amy Winehouse cause she’s different for the times. Sadly another train wreck waiting to happen.


Sadly, it appears she already sliding off the tracks.


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

*She's IN!*

So the new singer passed our little audition like a pro! Great vocals plus fantastic attitude and personality. I'm sure we will get along despite the age differences and I don't think lack of gig experience will be an issue. Once we get rolling she will gain plenty in short order. 

We all agree that to make the most of this it aught to be positioned as a NEW band with (mostly) new material. So now we have lots to think about:


pick new band name
pick new songs (she can learn some of our old ones, too)
rehearsals
record new demos
photo shoot
new print promo for agents
new web site / myspace / facebook

It will take time to get all this together because we're all full time employed w families, etc. (this is a 'weekend' band). Plus we have a bunch of dgoods gigs booked in December to get through. I'm hoping the new act will be ready to go by late Jan / Feb 08. We'll see.

This is gonna be fun... I'm MOTIVATED again!:banana::food-smiley-004:


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Robboman said:


> So the new singer passed our little audition like a pro! Great vocals plus fantastic attitude and personality. I'm sure we will get along despite the age differences and I don't think lack of gig experience will be an issue. Once we get rolling she will gain plenty in short order.
> 
> We all agree that to make the most of this it aught to be positioned as a NEW band with (mostly) new material. So now we have lots to think about:
> 
> ...


Congrats and good luck. Best thing to do is to book a gig IMO. Nothing motivates people like a deadline.


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

Starbuck50 said:


> to my dismay I have not been able to find anyone to get together with. I’ve posted ads, answered ads that seem taylor made for me, and when I respond with my e-mail address that obviously shows I’m a woman the correspondence stops. Why is that? I make it clear that I’m married and have a family and pose no threat in that area. There are no pictures so the way I look should not even factor into it. I have since given up and realised that I just have to make do with myself. I’ll record and harmonize with myself.. Again I have to ask why? Anyway, just another point of view.


Wow, that's bizarre. I think a female-fronted band is an awesome idea, especially if said female can pick up an instrument once in a while, to fill up the sound.

And re: the Wilsons, it's a damn shame what they went through in the 80's. Ann has such a great voice, and as a guitarist I've been a fan of Nancy since I was a teenager. And appearance-wise... well, she must be close to 50 now, and she's still a hottie. Damn that Cameron Crowe!! 

Re: the band members hitting on the woman in the band - this is bad. I had a band break up over this sort of thing, many moons ago. The singer was great - nice voice, nice to look at, great attitude, good stage presence - but she was involved with the drummer. I didn't get to spend any 1 on 1 time with her, working out songs and whatever, because of their relationship and the potential for jealously etc. The bass player and I sort of talked to her "through" the drummer, which didn't make for very good communications. And when their relationship went bad, the band fell apart. Ancient history now, of course...

Congrads Robboman - it sounds like you're off to a great start with your new member.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Fantastic, glad to see it's working out.

Keep us posted, I want to come hear you guys.


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