# Fender Blues Junior vrs. Princeton Reverb



## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

I am hoping that someone will reveal the true difference between these two amplifiers..
All I know is that they have approx. the same output wattage.

I'm interested in learning about the true potential of each amp.
Is one suited for cleans better then the other.?
Are there obvious tonal differences ?
Is the circuitry similar or very different and what effect does that have on the amp?
Why is one worth twice as much as the other?

Anything else that you have hands on experience with would be appreciated.

G.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

I have both, latest versions: BJr III and PRRI "Brownie". Completely different-sounding amps.


GTmaker said:


> Is one suited for cleans better then the other.?


PRRI is the much cleaner and its cleans are fabulous.


GTmaker said:


> Are there obvious tonal differences ?


I am not a gigging musician, so my volume levels are not gig-level, which requires a grain of salt. But at basement volume levels, they sound completely different. I would say PRRI for gorgeous cleans, BJr for front end overdrive, both with strong Fender colourings.

The quality of the reverbs is not even comparable, PRRI wins hands down, even with after-market reverb tank in the BJr.


GTmaker said:


> Is the circuitry similar or very different and what effect does that have on the amp?


Have not dwelled into circuitry comparison, but tube amps only have 3 or 4 significant circuit structure variations, wouldn't be surprised if circuits are recognizably similar. Components and nuances make the tonal differences. 

But ... PRRI has a 6V6-based output section and BJr is EL84-based, so you're definitely going to have differences. Both preamp/inverters are 12AX7-based, as usual.

PRRI reverb is tube-driven, BJr is SS-driven. I am guessing this accounts for a fair bit of the massive difference in reverbs. 

Also, PRRI has a tube power supply rectifier and BJr is SS, for what it's worth. People suggest different rectifier tubes in PRRI make a huge difference. 

So perhaps quite different after all 


GTmaker said:


> Why is one worth twice as much as the other?


Value is, in order, in the eye/ear of the beholder, marketing, supply/demand, global and local manufacturing and economic conditions, some other thing, some more other things, and eventually underlying cost to manufacture. That's why. 


GTmaker said:


> Anything else that you have hands on experience with would be appreciated


We're not far from each other. If you can make it to Waterloo one evening and I can find the time (that's the hardest thing for me :-(), you are very welcome to give both a shot.


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## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

I own a FSR Relic BJr and a FSR PRRI Brownie.
Both amps have their strengths. Both amps are easy to carry. Both amps are versatile enough for home use or small to medium size gigs.
My PRRI sounds like a Princeton Reverb. Truly a great reissue of a vintage amp, with an alnico speaker.
My Relic BJr can do strong cleans, tweed, blues, and various shades of drive without pedals. When ever I have a Strat or Tele for sale, I let the potential customer use the Relic BJr. They are quite amazed by the clean coming out of the amp, and it seems to be a match for a Tele. Settings are easy, and that not much loved Jensen alnico (by others), is the key to great Tele tone.
Both amps take a Les Paul well; the PRRI more so. I like a 335 type of guitar a little better in the PRRI.
Both amps take pedals well.
Both amps can use an alternate speaker cab for another flavor. I have used the PRRI with 12" and 212 cabs, which open another dimension, but always go back to the original P10Q Jensen speaker. That "sound" that I hear in recorded music of the era, is in the 10" Jensen speaker. The Relic BJr sounds best to me with the supplied Jensen alnico. The mojo the amp can produce, goes away with other good speakers that I have tried.

I have often played these two amps paired with stereo effects pedals. The blend is simply awesomeness, (throw in your variables; one amp tweedy or driven, the other in pure vintage vibe, using the built in vibe).

Both amps pair nicely with other amps that I own. The most interesting pairing is the 1946 Sound Craft amp as the primary, with the single knob set to threshold, with an instrument cable from the other input, going to the Relic BJr input. Even with the Relic BJr set clean, it takes on the natural distortion of the old Sound Craft, as if it was a pedal.

Experimentation can be endless, and surprisingly rewarding. The 60 year old Sound Craft is all original and likely a risk to use, but will likely lose its' magic mojo tone if it gets refurbished. I have heard a fully serviced Sound Craft in person, and it was just too clean; no mojo.

I have 15 amps at this time, and find them all useful and endearing. I always have something different to plug into, so there is no ear fatigue, and appreciate coming back to an amp that has not been played in a while. Every amp and guitar that I have makes me want to play some different song or tune automatically. I wish that one amp and guitar could satisfy, but that just does not work for me.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

I also own both... a 68 Custom PRRI and a BJIII.

They are both great little amps depending on the genre that you play.

If I have to keep one, I'd keep the PRRI because the build quality is better and I trust it more and also it has the tremolo too.

I find the PRRI can be fatter sounding and a better pedal platform of the two as well. However if I just want a grab and go amp and no pedals then I take the BJIII.

I played some music with some folks on the weekend, mic'd things up and recorded with my Behringer XR-18 and here is the result...


__
https://soundcloud.com/id%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fsoundcloud.com%252Fdavid-radlin%252Fa-mess-of-blues%252Fs-CPThB%3Bsecret_token%3Ds-CPThB%3Btrack_id%3D296344124

...just a jam, one take, no rehearsal, no sound check or post production so keep expectations in check.

It's relative to this thread because the guitar in right channel is the 68 Custom PRRI with a Klon KTR and a Strat, the left channel guitar is a BJIII with a Les Paul plugged straight in with no pedals. I think what the recording will show is that both amps do a good job in the right context. Two LP's or two Strats would better compare in the mix, alas that wasn't my intention.

I was able to pick up both the PRRI and BJIII used and in excellent condition for less than the price of a new PRRI. Both are great values.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Try a Pro Jr before you buy either. If you play a lot of overdriven rock tunes the Pro Jr gets my vote.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

you have to love this forum when you can get these amazing and detailed responses..
thanks to all especially for the LexxM3 offer to let me try both amps out...lets see if we can make it happen..

G.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

GT, please send me a PM and we can start the scheduling.

As well, there can be a ProJr in on that test as well  ... maybe I should retire and start a museum just to house all the gear I've accumulated -- GAS IS an illness.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

My Pro Jr running through a 1x12 eats any BJr I've had for lunch. Sounds much more 3 dimensional and less boxy if that makes any sense. You lose reverb but that's easily remedied. The BJr's I've had have all been "good enough" amps but they ultimately lacked something that left me wanting more, hence my search for a PRRI at the moment. I didn't like the Pro as a combo mind you, it needs the 1 x 12 to open it up.

Gino and Lexx - if you can, try to hook up the Pro to a 1x12.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

davetcan said:


> Gino and Lexx - if you can, try to hook up the Pro to a 1x12.


I have been on the fence about the ProJr combo, this might be the reason. What 1x12 speaker/speaker-type and cab structure (open, closed, size) would you suggest?


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I actually prefer open backs on Fenders but all I have right now area closed back and a Thiele Mesa ported cab, both sound great with it. Thiele has a Scumback H75 in it and I'm not sure what's in the Tone Tools cab. Alex might remember, I got it from him awhile ago. I tried a few different speakers in it but ended up back with the original, it just works.

For test purposes it probably won't matter a hell of a lot. It should open the Pro up quite a bit, regardless.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I have a 79' Silverface Princeton Reverb. I gig with it regularly - mostly in stereo with a DRRI. It's got a Rajin' Cajun 10" which allows for more headroom and a tighter bottom. To me the Prinny is the "end all" and she'll be the amp I'm left with when all the others are gone.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

davetcan said:


> My Pro Jr running through a 1x12 eats any BJr I've had for lunch. Sounds much more 3 dimensional and less boxy if that makes any sense. You lose reverb but that's easily remedied. The BJr's I've had have all been "good enough" amps but they ultimately lacked something that left me wanting more, hence my search for a PRRI at the moment. I didn't like the Pro as a combo mind you, it needs the 1 x 12 to open it up.
> 
> Gino and Lexx - if you can, try to hook up the Pro to a 1x12.


I plugged in to a guy's stereo ProJ rig at an opened jam years ago - and it was one of the best tones I ever had at that venue. It put me on a 6 month search for a pair, but they never materialized. And then I went, "hey, a squirrel" a moved on to other things. But you make me want to test one - or two - again. Until I see another squirrel......


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

You might want to wait until we hear back from Gino and Lexx 



High/Deaf said:


> I plugged in to a guy's stereo ProJ rig at an opened jam years ago - and it was one of the best tones I ever had at that venue. It put me on a 6 month search for a pair, but they never materialized. And then I went, "hey, a squirrel" a moved on to other things. But you make me want to test one - or two - again. Until I see another squirrel......


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

davetcan said:


> You might want to wait until we hear back from Gino and Lexx


Nahh. I'm definitely one of those that doesn't really care what others think, wrt how something sounds. I don't believe there is a 'best tone' just like I don't believe there is a 'best color'. And what works for someone may not work for another - we all play differently and hear differently. And are looking for different things.

I hope they find what they're looking for or get resolution for their questions. But I know what I heard that night and if I ever stumbled across a pair of those for the right price, who knows? I can honestly say I'm not looking for an amp at this point in time.

IMO, a Princeton kicks a BJR around the block and back. But everyone needs to experience that for themselves.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> IMO, a Princeton kicks a BJR around the block and back. But everyone needs to experience that for themselves.


That is absolutely true.

However at half the price, a BJ has a very respectable showing.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Blues Jr. Can't hold a candle to a PR, unless gritty overdrive that sounds like a pack of angry bees is your thing


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

cboutilier said:


> Blues Jr. Can't hold a candle to a PR, unless gritty overdrive that sounds like a pack of angry bees is your thing


First of all I really don't understand the above statement...
I'm hoping to find the difference out soon when I will test both amps.

As of now, where I'm coming from is this:

Blues Junior is 15 watts into a 12" speaker
Princeton is 12 watts into a 10" speaker...
I now understand that the Junior does not have tube driven reverb and the Princeton does. OK i get it.

I'll reserve other comments till I hear the difference myself.
G.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

Just for precision, previous discussion was to drive a Pro Jr into 12" speaker, just in case there is confusion about Blues Jr. vs. Pro Jr. -- different amps, GT. There will be at least 1 1x12" to try and all these amps have 1/4" outs, so we can try all permutations.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

GTmaker said:


> First of all I really don't understand the above statement...
> I'm hoping to find the difference out soon when I will test both amps.
> 
> As of now, where I'm coming from is this:
> ...


To me, a driven BJr lacks the smoothness that the PR has. The PR breaks up in a much more musical manner to my ears.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I've read about Blues Juniors converted to 6V6 or 6L6 power tubes, but I've never heard one. I wonder how much of a difference that would make in closing the tone gap between the BJr and PR?


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Wow, that's major surgery, even the tube sockets would have to be changed. That much money for that level of amp strikes me as strange, you can probably buy another amp for what that would cost.



dradlin said:


> That is absolutely true.
> 
> However at half the price, a BJ has a very respectable showing.


I agree. Also, does it seem the D/PRRI have gone up a lot more, %wise, than the BJR, PJR have in the last 5 years. I can't believe I bought a post-Oly rental DRRI for $750 6 months after the games. New with warranty.

And there are deals. I saw this at my local 'dealer' yesterday. The gold metalflake is easier to overlook when you consider it has a Gold inside (Celestion G10). Not bad for that price.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Lincoln said:


> I've read about Blues Juniors converted to 6V6 or 6L6 power tubes, but I've never heard one. I wonder how much of a difference that would make in closing the tone gap between the BJr and PR?


I run my Blues Jr with 6V6's and a transformer that pushes about 22 watts. I love the amp for the cleans and body but the breakup/overdrive isn't the best about it. I'm a pedal guy so that hasn't ever bothered me. The best overdrive sounds out of the little Fenders has come from a Pro Jr in my experimenting. I used to run mine into a 2x12 cab and it was killer sounding. The Princeton is a great amp but I found it broke up to early for the style of music I needed to play, although the size of it is ideal for my types of gigs. I couldn't get it to stay clean after 4 on the dial and I didn't use the trem at all.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

cboutilier said:


> Blues Jr. Can't hold a candle to a PR, unless gritty overdrive that sounds like a pack of angry bees is your thing


I remember, Jeff Healey running two Pro Junior's live.....tone for days.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

vadsy said:


> I run my Blues Jr with 6V6's and a transformer that pushes about 22 watts. I love the amp for the cleans and body but the breakup/overdrive isn't the best about it. I'm a pedal guy so that hasn't ever bothered me. The best overdrive sounds out of the little Fenders has come from a Pro Jr in my experimenting. I used to run mine into a 2x12 cab and it was killer sounding. The Princeton is a great amp but I found it broke up to early for the style of music I needed to play, although the size of it is ideal for my types of gigs. I couldn't get it to stay clean after 4 on the dial and I didn't use the trem at all.


Isn't a Blues Jr a EL-84 amp? Did you change sockets and xformer? I'd never heard of that. It sounds expensive, unless you DIY.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Isn't a Blues Jr a EL-84 amp? Did you change sockets and xformer? I'd never heard of that. It sounds expensive, unless you DIY.


It was DIY and it was mostly about learning to mod an amp. I've got some new sockets in, new transformer to run the 6V6's and dealt with the biasing via a trimpot. I did some other stuff to the amp and ended up being really happy with it, been my main gigging amp for over 5 years now.


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

HighNoon said:


> I remember, Jeff Healey running two Pro Junior's live.....tone for days.


I heard the same for Jeff Beck.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I have to say I wasn't sold on the Pro Jr until I got it out of that rattly little cab. Sounds pretty amazing to me through my 1 x 12. Single tone knob and the volume knob are all that is needed. I run a bit of reverb and delay into the front of it and keep it pretty clean. Takes dirt pedals really well.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

OK...lets take a left turn and keep on running....

For basically the same price (new), why would you consider buying a Princeton Reverb and not the Deluxe Reverb?

G.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

GTmaker said:


> OK...lets take a left turn and keep on running....
> 
> For basically the same price (new), why would you consider buying a Princeton Reverb and not the Deluxe Reverb?
> 
> G.


If you want natural breakup at reasonable volumes you'd most likely go for the Princeton. If you want to play in a band and have some clean headroom while the rest of your mates are banging away you'd go with a Deluxe. This is just one reason.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

GTmaker said:


> OK...lets take a left turn and keep on running....
> 
> For basically the same price (new), why would you consider buying a Princeton Reverb and not the Deluxe Reverb?
> 
> G.


Different tones. I personally would go with a DR, but others like the PR more especially it's trem. Marty Stuart and Cousin Kenny Vaughan sound amazing on Princetons


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

GTmaker said:


> OK...lets take a left turn and keep on running....
> 
> For basically the same price (new), why would you consider buying a Princeton Reverb and not the Deluxe Reverb?
> 
> G.


It's a really good question and one I've struggled with over the years. I've never actually owned a Princeton but I have owned a few DR's. I tend to always gravitate to 12" speakers and I've yet to own an amp with a 10" that I've been happy with. The only reason I'd like to give the PR a chance is the slightly better portability, it's lighter and smaller and I'm getting older and weaker. Having said that if I came across one of the new PR's with a 12" speaker, or a good used DR I'd likely jump at it. I also prefer the increased headroom as all of my OD comes from pedals and I really like a great clean tone as a base.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I actually really like the blues jr's. I had an unfair a/b of the prri and blues jr iii at l&m - the amps werent at the same height.

A jr/drri/prri shootout would be fun.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Budda said:


> I actually really like the blues jr's. *I had an unfair a/b of the prri and blues jr iii at l&m* - the amps werent at the same height.
> 
> A jr/drri/prri shootout would be fun.


What did you find? I've never a/b'd them directly, but always left a jam feeling better about the tone of a DRRI than a BJr. Might have been the beer or the vibe of the situation. Might be confirmation bias on my part.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> What did you find? I've never a/b'd them directly, but always left a jam feeling better about the tone of a DRRI than a BJr. Might have been the beer or the vibe of the situation. Might be confirmation bias on my part.


It wasn't the beer, it just sounds better.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I preferred the jr. I think some people like a much brighter clean tone than I do.

Both amps were on the floor when i went for strings yesterday, but I wanted to get home.

I know that not hearing an amp directly gives a different perspective on the tone, so I dont really trust the comparison much.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Budda said:


> I actually really like the blues jr's. I had an unfair a/b of the prri and blues jr iii at l&m - the amps werent at the same height.
> 
> A jr/drri/prri shootout would be fun.


I can't stand the cleans on the BJR. They just iritate me for some reason. When I get to the bar each week, the first thing I do I grab the back line BJR and hide it out back. I then replace it with my Super Reverb or Princeton Reverb clone.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Any update on this? I have a Headstrong L'il King 1x10 in the works that I'm hoping to pick up on Wednesday. I may have to stuff a 12" speaker in there at some point but I'm hoping not. Beauty is it only weighs 28lbs.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

davetcan said:


> Any update on this? I have a Headstrong L'il King 1x10 in the works that I'm hoping to pick up on Wednesday. I may have to stuff a 12" speaker in there at some point but I'm hoping not. Beauty is it only weighs 28lbs.


Sweet amp!!!!

Please let us know your opinion a few weeks after you have been playing it.

Congrats and ENJOY!!

Cheers

Dave


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

greco said:


> Sweet amp!!!!
> 
> Please let us know your opinion a few weeks after you have been playing it.
> 
> ...


Getting it from a friend of yours  Meeting up at L&M in Stratford on Wednesday if you care to make the drive.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

davetcan said:


> Getting it from a friend of yours  Meeting up at L&M in Stratford on Wednesday if you care to make the drive.


Thanks for the invitation..much appreciated. 

Unfortunately, I have serious family issues that require me stay reasonable close to home. 

I am assuming you are getting it from M. (who was on the forum in the past)?? 

Thanks again.

Cheers

Dave


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Brought my board in to L&M today to see if I could recreate a signal issue. The result? A MIM tele and a Princeton '68 RI sound really good with my board haha. I found the princeton to be pretty bass-heavy, never needing it above 6 (MIM tele, Godin 5th avenue, Gibson 2016 LP studio, LTD X-tone).


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