# How to get this Big Sugar tone?



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Specifically, the tone at 14 seconds (and the very beginning too, but it sounds cooler at 14 secs).

I know Gordie Johnson uses a Garnet Herzog, *BUT *if this isn't a Herzog we are hearing here can we avoid turning this thread into a Herzog discussion (this seems to happen every time GJ is mentioned). If it is a Herzog then cool, please let me know the info.


Any ideas? It kind of sounds like a thick, strong Muff.

Thanks
TG


[video=youtube;le8NuHLUD2M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le8NuHLUD2M#t=10[/video]


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

Couldn't tell ya what he's playing through but it does sound double or triple tracked there which would fatten it up nicely. Always loved Gordie's tone!


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

I can't find it online, but my bandmate saw an interview with a recording engineer who said that in the studio they played around with putting a long pipe in front of the speaker then putting a mic at the other end of it. Apparently it was just standard ABS plumbing pipe. I don't know length or diameter. No idea which tunes were recorded that way, but it could be fun to experiment with.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

Kinda sounds like a les paul through a Marshall to me. You know, where the volume is up and the speakers are cooking?


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## neldom (Apr 29, 2009)

Gordie has stated in interviews, that he is not a pedal user, other than the Boss RE-20 delay.
Though if you get his tone nailed out of a pedal please let me know, I would be all over that for sure.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

It may very well be a Herzog, but I don't have any experience with them. It sounds like a fuzzy distortion into a loud amp. 

TG



neldom said:


> Gordie has stated in interviews, that he is not a pedal user, other than the Boss RE-20 delay.
> Though if you get his tone nailed out of a pedal please let me know, I would be all over that for sure.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

traynor_garnet said:


> It may very well be a Herzog, but I don't have any experience with them. Is sounds like a fuzzy distortion into a loud amp.
> TG


That's pretty much what a Herzog is. It's basically the same schematic as an old Champ, but modified to use a line out instead of a speaker, so it's a little tube amp cranked up and then run through a big tube amp.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Most of the Herzog clips I have heard, however, don't sound this "tight" and focused.

TG



kat_ said:


> That's pretty much what a Herzog is. It's basically the same schematic as an old Champ, but modified to use a line out instead of a speaker, so it's a little tube amp cranked up and then run through a big tube amp.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Another opinion stating cranked up amp, likely a Marshall with some EQing - not sure there's any added fuzzbox at all, but there could be as a boost. Multi tracked, yup. That PVC pipe mic'd idea sounds cool, and as I sit here and imagine it, I can convince myself that's going on here.


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## Gretsch6120 (Sep 20, 2006)

Maybe it has something to do with the amp he is using and how he is recording his guitar...oh and I almost forgot a herzog


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

100 % that is the Herzog ... period, he don't leave home without 2 (one is a spare) 
amps are a pair of SVT 300 watt bass amps into rented 4-12 cabinets 75 watt celestions 
use the cabs for one tour then get some new rentals
sennhieser 509/609 pop tart on the cabs for live work 

at 14 seconds its Double tracked 
at one point they also toured with 7-8 space echos stacked up beside the mixing board
each was assigned a channel and the sound man would fade them up for the spacey jam sections of tunes 

studio tricks with plumbing pipes and plywood reflectors are probably tall tales, he switches from a Windsor to a Texas accent for the tall tales, 
however he has astounding ears and very very specific and expensive taste in mics 


FWIW the clean tones on the first jazz album wuz an ampeg 

p


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

I'm planning to build one when I get some time. Not sure when that'll be, but if I ever get around to it you're welcome to try it out.


traynor_garnet said:


> Most of the Herzog clips I have heard, however, don't sound this "tight" and focused.
> TG


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## Stevo (Apr 3, 2008)

Yeah, I agree with Park. I just saw Big Sugar this summer and he was slaving the Herzog into the SVT using a Les Paul. Sounded just like that recording!


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Dam it! I don't want to start looking at Herzogs LOL (And I have already visited the Garnet site to check out how much the new reproductions cost).

Do they do light dirt too, or just full out crunch and fuzz?

TG


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

why build from scratch 
just find a cheap used value Jr 
switch the incoming voltage taps around to reduce the B+ 
add the 6 ohm load resistor and output volume 
and change the v1 plate load to 220k 

I have never done this mod but I am pretty sure it would work 
If it does not receyle the transformers and build the exact circuit with a 6v6 

p


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

A Herzog may be the most direct and simplest way to get that sound, but that doesn't mean it is the ONLY way to get it. Many roads lead to Rome.

There is clearly some sort of low-end/low-mids resonance in there that is producing the quality of harmonics we hear. I'd recommend experimenting with some pre-overdrive EQ, perhaps a parametric, and see what you come up with.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

ive seen gordie play that tune a dozen times or so live.
maybe it isnt exact, but it always has that "focused" sound.
he rides the volume pot a lot, and palm mutes.
the volume levels at those shows maybe obscure the dynamics, i dunno.
always used to look like he was using a wall of marshalls, but who knows.

tune kicks my ass either way.

heres a grady show- herzog visible.

[video=youtube;KQ0c_bQDf08]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ0c_bQDf08[/video]

also ty parkhead for that post.
that first album is killer. KILLER.


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## pmannat (Oct 15, 2020)

traynor_garnet said:


> Specifically, the tone at 14 seconds (and the very beginning too, but it sounds cooler at 14 secs).
> 
> I know Gordie Johnson uses a Garnet Herzog, *BUT *if this isn't a Herzog we are hearing here can we avoid turning this thread into a Herzog discussion (this seems to happen every time GJ is mentioned). If it is a Herzog then cool, please let me know the info.
> 
> ...



I know this thread is crazy old, but I've recently seen a video of Gordie praising the rotosound fuzz, he is definitely using some germanium fuzz with the gated fuzz he gets


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## Mikev7305 (Jan 6, 2020)

Thank you for bringing this thread up, I never took enough initiative to find out what gordie used for amps, and now I know! His tone is just so filthy and thick, I LOVE it!


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

He goes through a bunch of his gear and how he recorded stuff on his YT chanel, lots of good stuff there.


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## Waldo97 (Jul 4, 2020)

I only saw them once, but I go the impression he was swimming in near-feedback volume. That's what I heard.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

I think it’s just because he’s never sober!


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)




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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

Waldo97 said:


> I only saw them once, but I go the impression he was swimming in near-feedback volume. That's what I heard.


I heard that it’s turned up so loud that they literally destroy the speakers. The rumour I heard is that when they rent backline gear, they put a special little mark on the guitar speaker cabinets. The next time they need to rent from the same place, they refuse anything with that mark because they know the speakers are shot.


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## Festus McCorkindale (Dec 17, 2017)

Maybe Josh Scott or Howard Gee could make a Herzog clone in pedal format?


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Festus McCorkindale said:


> Maybe Josh Scott or Howard Gee could make a Herzog clone in pedal format?



Why not just buy a real Canadian made Garnet Herzog ?


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## Mikev7305 (Jan 6, 2020)

Man gordie kicks ass. Such a simple rig that sounds incredible


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## Festus McCorkindale (Dec 17, 2017)

Frenchy99 said:


> Why not just buy a real Canadian made Garnet Herzog ?


I just assumed they were super pricey, but yeah, that’s a great idea!


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