# Why is wiring so complicated?



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Look at this mess. None of the pickups use any sort of standard wiring colours. Now I’ve got to try reverse engineer this to figure out where the new HSH pickup set goes.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Follow the leads from the pickups, remove & replace 1 at a time?

OR I don't understand the issue.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

keto said:


> Follow the leads from the pickups, remove & replace 1 at a time?
> 
> OR I don't understand the issue.


The new and old pickups don’t have the same wire colours.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> The new and old pickups don’t have the same wire colours.


Shouldn't matter, you should be able to figure out which (or even which 2 if split) is hot and which is ground. Ground is easy to see, it's the other one that's hot 

I'll stop now.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

keto said:


> Shouldn't matter, you should be able to figure out which (or even which 2 if split) is hot and which is ground. Ground is easy to see, it's the other one that's hot
> 
> I'll stop now.


Yup, was wondering if the other colours are different too. That's what I mean by tracing the wires back. I'll figure it out


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Make a schematic/diagram before you remove anything


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

davetcan said:


> Make a schematic/diagram before you remove anything


Done. Lots of pics too.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

1SweetRide said:


> *Why is wiring so complicated?*
> [/ATTACH]


Why is life so short?


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Doug Gifford said:


> Why is life so short?


Depends. If you're stuck in a dark hole, it probably seems endless. Better question, why does this damn single coil have three friggin’ wires??


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

1SweetRide said:


> Better question, why does this damn single coil have three friggin’ wires??


Noiseless?


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

laristotle said:


> Noiseless?
> 
> View attachment 306252


No, that’s what’s so weird. It’s the DiMarzio Utopia set. HSH. Their site is under maintenance so no diagrams avail.

Here’s what they look like.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

See, one red, one black and one grey. WTH?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Fifty-five years ago, a friend of mine introduced me to the genius of Professor Irwin Corey, the world's foremost authority, on an album his father had. Why is wiring so complicated? I think what you ask is a two-part question.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

mhammer said:


> Fifty-five years ago, a friend of mine introduced me to the genius of Professor Irwin Corey, the world's foremost authority, on an album his father had. Why is wiring so complicated? I think what you ask is a two-part question.


I’m wearing slippers. So there.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

1SweetRide said:


> See, one red, one black and one grey. WTH?
> View attachment 306254


A multi meter is your best friend.
If unknown, measure the leads in question.
Look for typical pickup resistance in the 6k to 16k range. Black--grey, either neg side of the pup and /or could be tied directly to ground point throughout the guitar.
Your meter will reveal all.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

loudtubeamps said:


> A multi meter is your best friend.
> If unknown, measure the leads in question.
> Look for typical pickup resistance in the 6k to 16k range. Black--grey, either neg side of the pup and /or could be tied directly to ground point throughout the guitar.
> Your meter will reveal all.


+1 

IIRC, you have an excellent digital multimeter as you were taking measurements for the outdoor LED system...Correct?


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

I had one of these on the bench a month or so ago.
1972 Yamaha SG 80T - Imgur
My first encounter with a guitar with a wiring harness that could have come out of the dash board of a 1969 Datsun.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

loudtubeamps said:


> I had one of these on the bench a month or so ago.
> 1972 Yamaha SG 80T - Imgur
> My first encounter with a guitar with a wiring harness that could have come out of the dash board of a 1969 Datsun.


WOW! Thanks for the pic. In addition to the number and complexity of wires, it looks very cramped.
@1SweetRide This (linked above) wiring pic should make you feel "a whole lot better" and possibly more confident with facing your present wiring frustrations.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

loudtubeamps said:


> A multi meter is your best friend.
> If unknown, measure the leads in question.
> Look for typical pickup resistance in the 6k to 16k range. Black--grey, either neg side of the pup and /or could be tied directly to ground point throughout the guitar.
> Your meter will reveal all.


I'll do that. The small piece of paper that came with the pup says red goes to ground. Black must be coil finish and grey coil start. Everyone else uses red for coil start. I'll measure as I don't trust that little piece of paper.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

loudtubeamps said:


> I had one of these on the bench a month or so ago.
> 1972 Yamaha SG 80T - Imgur
> My first encounter with a guitar with a wiring harness that could have come out of the dash board of a 1969 Datsun.


Hehheh, good analogy.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

greco said:


> WOW! Thanks for the pic. In addition to the number and complexity of wires, it looks very cramped.
> @1SweetRide This (linked above) wiring pic should make you feel "a whole lot better" and possibly more confident with facing your present wiring frustrations.


Misery loves company


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@loudtubeamps Did the guitar have something like a Gibson "Varitone" system?


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

God no. It's just a simple Vol, Tone and 5-way switch. Vol is push/pull for splitting the neck coil.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> Misery loves company


Here is some more misery to keep you company...


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> God no. It's just a simple Vol, Tone and 5-way switch. Vol is push/pull for splitting the neck coil.


I was referring to @loudtubeamps 's 72 Yamaha


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

This job is extra complicated because:

New covered HBs didn't fit the existing cavities, had to slightly rout the corners of the pickup cavities
Screws to secure the pickups didn't fit the base legs, had to drill out the holes
Middle pickup was too tall, had to route the cavity where the legs go
Had to glue foam to the bottoms of the new pickups to get them to sit level
This better be worth it lol


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

greco said:


> Here is some more misery to keep you company...
> View attachment 306266


And that is precisely why I hate Les Pauls and any other guitar that has the pickup selector in that position, So much needless wire.


greco said:


> @loudtubeamps Did the guitar have something like a Gibson "Varitone" system?
> View attachment 306264


That reminds me of the "producer switch" that bassist Lee Sklar had installed on one of his basses. It was an old trick that studio players would play on fickle indecisive producers. The producer would ask for the sound to be a little more <_insert meaningless descriptor here_> and the musician would go through some series of obscured actions that the producer in the booth could only minimally make out, after which the musician would say "How about this?", and play, not having changed anything. The producer would be satisfied with the "change". Sklar had them install a 5 or 6-position rotary switch on his bass that only lights up a different-coloured LED in each position and does nothing to the signal path.


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## Doug B (Jun 19, 2017)

Doug Gifford said:


> Why is life so short?



Why ask why?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Doug B said:


> Why ask why?


Why not?


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## Doug B (Jun 19, 2017)

greco said:


> Why not?


Because is why!


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

'Go ask your mom.'


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## Doug B (Jun 19, 2017)

laristotle said:


> 'Go ask your mom.'


But Momma said: "Never play poker with a guy named Doc!"


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Doug B (Jun 19, 2017)

laristotle said:


>


Were wolf? I saw one in London, his hair was perfect!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Wait, was he the one drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's?


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

My Mama said let me play some rock and roll.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> My Mama said let me play some rock and roll.


The tone in that closing solo was always to-die-for. It sho-nuff sounds like a Leslie, but also sounds like it could be a flanger. Anyone know the scoop?


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

mhammer said:


> The tone in that closing solo was always to-die-for. It sho-nuff sounds like a Leslie, but also sounds like it could be a flanger. Anyone know the scoop?


I think it's a flanger.


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## Doug B (Jun 19, 2017)

mhammer said:


> Wait, was he the one drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's?


That's him. He's the hairy-handed gent who ran amok in Kent. You better stay away from him-he'll rip your lungs out Jim!

Uhh-wait-what was the question again?


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## markxander (Oct 24, 2009)

found this thread because i was out for a walk and saw a @greco shaped hole in a brick wall, kool aid man style

thought to myself *someone must have posted a great picture of a wiring rats nest*


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

markxander said:


> found this thread because i was out for a walk and saw a @greco shaped hole in a brick wall, kool aid man style




I'm gettin' too old for this Kool Aid man wall stuff. That was likely one of my last walls...I pay for it dearly the next morning.

Credit for the pic is goes to @loudtubeamps


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

1SweetRide said:


> I'll do that. The small piece of paper that came with the pup says red goes to ground. Black must be coil finish and grey coil start. Everyone else uses red for coil start. I'll measure as I don't trust that little piece of paper.


Attach pickup leads to your multi meter set to millivolts a.c. , you can use a butter knife or something similar (any ferrous metal with a wide blade) A wrap of masking tape over the blade so as not to scratch the pickup cover.A gentle slap with the knife over the pole pieces will generate a small amount of A.C. voltage...you want to take notice if the meter registers a positive or negative reading, this will indicate the polarity of the pickup wiring.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

greco said:


> @loudtubeamps Did the guitar have something like a Gibson "Varitone" system?
> View attachment 306264


Weird Guitars: Vintage Freak Show | Premier Guitar


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

loudtubeamps said:


> Weird Guitars: Vintage Freak Show | Premier Guitar


Am I weird because I like this? It's pretty cool.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

loudtubeamps said:


> Attach pickup leads to your multi meter set to millivolts a.c. , you can use a butter knife or something similar (any ferrous metal with a wide blade) A wrap of masking tape over the blade so as not to scratch the pickup cover.A gentle slap with the knife over the pole pieces will generate a small amount of A.C. voltage...you want to take notice if the meter registers a positive or negative reading, this will indicate the polarity of the pickup wiring.


Yup, I've got all the wires mapped. Did the old set too for fun. I'm beginning to think this guitar was never wired correctly. The coil split on the Vol pot never did split the bridge coil but the bridge coils weren't tied together. Which means, I just can't re-wire it according to the old schematic, I'll have to figure out how to wire it correctly now. Darn.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Ok, so discovered why this is such a mess. Searched on the switch's model and discovered it's some sort of Ibanez Super Switch supporting 10 different pickup combinations. Oh, Lord.


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