# Who has gone down the attenuator rabbit hole? What are your experiences?



## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

Years ago I had a Weber Mini Mass that I used with a Traynor YCV40. It worked well and the tone was not changed too badly. Then I had one built into a Peavey Windsor Studio (great concept, terrible execution) and it was bad. Since then nothing, but there are a LOT of options now. Lots of price points too. Strangely, I can't find a video demo of Swart night light, but that's what I'm leaning towards.

I just got my Garnet Mach 5 serviced and I know it is meant to be a classic rock monster but, despite only running 2 6V6s it is ridiculously loud.

Any input or experiences would be helpful. I want to buy one in the next couple of weeks.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I just put the Mini Mass on my Bruno Underground 30 which gets very loud and it works great. I would get another one of those if I were you. The big thing is when I lower the volume to low low volumes, of course it's not as good as it is when it is loud. But then I can still hear when I am done.


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## David Graves (Apr 5, 2017)

player99 said:


> I just put the Mini Mass on my Bruno Underground 30 which gets very loud and it works great. I would get another one of those if I were you. The big thing is when I lower the volume to low low volumes, of course it's not as good as it is when it is loud. But then I can still hear when I am done.


I hear your pain. I had a Bruno Pony 50 at one point. The only thing that could knock it down enough to be used in the house was a Rivera Rock Crusher. 
If you're only looking to knock a few decibels off, check out a Carl's Custom attenuator. I've had a few over the years. Great at knocking 6V6/ EL84 amps down to a sane level.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Try to find an amp tech who can implement Power Scaling properly. It doesn't seem to matter how often I post this -- "attenuation" never goes away. Anyone who says they tried PS and doesn't like it, has simply listened to a bad job. Find a guy who believes in it, because he understands it. Used by Stephenson, Rivera and Suhr. Not sure about Egnater's implementation.









Power Scaling for Tube Amplifiers Q&A - London Power Tube Amps & Kits


Power Scaling for tube guitar amplifiers - a technology by London Power. Get your amplifier's ultimate tone, as quietly as you like!




londonpower.com


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## Hell Hound (Oct 31, 2015)

I own a 5e3 Funk Farm that has power scaling and it works great. Goes from 15 to 1 watts.

Regarding attenuators, I've bought a few. The 50 watt Weber Mini Mass didn't work well for my 4 ohm amps. Cut too much top end and I didn't like the treble switch the unit added.
I have two very cheap passive attenuators. One is a no name from ebay and the other is a Stami Blackbird (also from ebay). Both work great.
I use my attenuators on their own or in combination with master volumes and power scaling.

Also, since you are taking about a Garnet, I have found they respond _*very*_ well to adding a master volume. It's simple and affordable.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I've tried a few attenuators. I was not happy with any of them for home use. They all worked great for live use to keep an amp just on the edge of breakup. They all sucked tone if you tried to play at home practice levels.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Ive owned a Dr Z Z brake and a Tone King iron Man. The Z brake was horrible. The tone king was great in that it sounded good at lower volumes. The Iron man that I had was dual attenuator and because it steps down in clicks I was never able match channel 1 and 2 correctly for my uses. The mesa boogie with dual channel and independent master on each does what I need perfectly and this amp sounds better than any attenuator I've ever used including the iron man. I used to own a couple of Allen amps and the master vol on those was superior to attenuators as well. I prefer finding an amp with a well executed MV rather than using an attenuator.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

I have a rock crusher. I like it. I have had a brakelite for some smaller amps, and that Was fine to take a little volume off, but not as much for a lot of volume. I have a tone king amp with built in attenuator, I like it. I have my Mojave coyote with a built in power soak. I like that also.


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## evenon (Nov 13, 2006)

Really like the Iron Man II. I have the 100 watt version, sounds great at all levels and the foot switchable solo boost is really useful with a band/live. The speaker emulation is ok too, kind of sounds like a greenback, works well enough. 

Have tried many over the years, recently had the BOSS TAE and a Dr Z Airbreak. The TAE is really good, a re-amp not really an attenuator, The Z is great for upto about 3 db reduction, after that it really starts to colour the tone.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Years ago I had a JCM800 combo (4010). Even at gigs I ran it through a THD Hotplate. It was such a crazy loud little amp. I thought the Hotplate worked quite well.

Sometime later I had a JTM60, it quit at a gig one night. Back then my singer used to bring a Traynor YBA-1 as a backup amp. Stock, early YBA-1, I ran it through the Hotplate and cranked it into breakup, man it sounded great.

I've been using Mesa and DSLs since then, I didn't feel they needed attenuation. 

But awhile ago I bought an SV20C Marshall combo. Since they are non master volume (plexi style) amps, an attenuator is required. It works fine with that old Hotplate, but I found a thread on the Marshall Forum on building your own attenuator. I think it works really well. You build it pretty well custom for the amp. It has a reactive -7dB (always on), switchable -7 and -3.5 dB steps, and a -3.5dB footswitch. I think the footswitch is brilliant. A rhythm cut/ solo boost without any tonal change.


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## warplanegrey (Jan 3, 2007)

I've had a few attenuators throughout the years. I've settled on the Two Notes Captor. When you figure that you get the direct recording capability, it's the one I'm happiest with. It's the most transparent in terms of sound. 

I always found my Weber Mass units would colour the sound too much.


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## pipestone62 (Nov 14, 2013)

I have a couple of Attenuators, Dr Z, Power station, Marshall power brake. I like being able to get master volume up and get volume down, very different that cranking pre and using master to tame volume. I have a old Hiwatt and it’s very loud, the attenuation makes it sound great at a reasonable volume. Also bought a Variac recently and it can really cut your volume once you get voltage down, gets very spongy though when you drop voltage below 100 volts.


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## MetalTele79 (Jul 20, 2020)

Ive had a HotPlate for over 15yrs. It works well to -8db. Anything more and it squashes the crap out of the sound. If you don't need too much attenuation it's a good option.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I find it hilarious that a lot of people seem to think that adding a volume pedal/knob in the effects loop or cranking your amp and turning the volume knob on a pedal down is the same as a power soak.


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## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

guitarman2 said:


> because it steps down in clicks


Beware of this with the Swart Night Light. I prefer an attenuator with a smooth pot as opposed to "steps down in clicks". No vendor seems to mention it.

Good article here on attenuators: https://reverb.com/guide/buying-guide-attenuators

My experiences have been very similar to all of the comments from forum members above. But eventually, you've got to try one for yourself.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Guncho said:


> I find it hilarious that a lot of people seem to think that adding a volume pedal/knob in the effects loop or cranking your amp and turning the volume knob on a pedal down is the same as a power soak.


I find it hilarious that some players think its technical differences that make something sound good. If it sounds good. It is good. No matter how its achieved.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

guitarman2 said:


> I find it hilarious that some players think its technical differences that make something sound good. If it sounds good. It is good. No matter how its achieved.


I didn't say otherwise.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I find it hilarious that some players think its technical differences that make something sound good. If it sounds good. It is good. No matter how its achieved.


You're right.

I also find it hilarious how frequently we'll take advice from someone who seems to really know their shit and then we hear them play and it's a shocking let down.

(and yes, I may very well be pointing that finger at myself.)


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Follow what I say, I sound incredible Always.


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

I've got the Waza TAE and it's one of the best purchases I've ever made. As mentioned before though, it's not technically an attenuator though it'll accomplish the same thing (and wayyyyyy more). I have a Mesa Royal Atlantic that has a built in "power soak". I have no idea how it stacks up to dedicated attenuators but it's a really great feature in that amp. Works well, changes the tone but not unpleasantly.


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## Dazza (Jan 16, 2011)

In practice some amp circuits seem to work better with attenuators while others don't. Additionally what the user wants to achieve will determine the result. Simple resistor types like the DrZ units work well for taking off a few db. Any more than that and the signal gets very compressed with considerable effect on high and low frequencies. It can be quieter, but an uninspiring result. However saying that I recall Dr Z amp users saying they had good results at heavier attenuation. Perhaps being country-esque players they don't wind their amps up as compared to my JMP / JTM Marshalls ?

For stage I've used large and small Dr Z units with various amps for many years, good result knocking off a couple db and no issues. Besides those I have a Ho built Ultimate Attenuator, which is a re-amping unit. It has far superior tonal qualities as a 'home volume' unit providing heavier attenuation. I used it for years with my NM Marshalls at home and playing out. The continuous output control and second control for solo boosts works great. I've had THD and Weber units which include extra circuitry eq to help compensate.

I preferred having something I could use with a variety of amps rather than modding any of them. Currently there are far greater choices compared to when I bought these, and with more options. What I have already covers my needs so I don't look at the newer stuff. I can only assume it's improved. Until you try something for yourself you won't really know.

Daz


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

I had a Weber Mini Mass. It sounded fine. However what I did not like about it is that the attenuator puts a HARD volume limit on the amp. So when I was playing I'd go and hit my solo boost pedal and all that would happen is the sound would get more overdriven but the volume didn't change at all.

The other part missing is the sound of a pushed amp just isn't the same when you turn it down and take the speaker out of the equation. Part of that pushed sound is pushing the speakers to the brink or into breakup as well. Moving air. I think this is part of why so many guys complain about the tone of attenuators.

Also, side effect is that you can't run your amp flat out all the time. You can't take a 100W amp and run dimed all the time and attenuate it down to bedroom volumes without eventually cooking the power section.

Anyway, I experimented with attenuators for a while and I ended up dumping them and found great drive pedals that I liked instead. I'm way happier with my tone this way.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

The only one I have extensive experience with is the Gibson PowerStealth (relabelled THD Hotplate) for a bit of attenuation it’s good but as the poster above mentioned with more extreme attenuation it can sound unnatural and while there are bass and treble switches to help it’s still not an ideal tone.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

I’m leaning towards the iron man ii but the oxbox and boss TAE both look like good tools too. I appreciate all the input, keep it coming!


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

I’ve owned a boat load of them. You get what you pay for, especially if you are doing more than shaving off a few DBs. 

Currently I am using a Suhr RL into a Carvin tube power amp. You don’t need a tube power amp, but this one designed to be transparent and was priced right. Sounds pretty amazing and unbelievable when I throw in some Lexicon reverb in my WDW setup.


For a passive unit I would go Iron Man, although it is one of the few I haven’t owned. 

I have also found the different units sounds better/worse on different amps so look into what amps people are using when the post their reviews/demos.

TG


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Is it for live or home use? I think it makes a difference what your main goal is.

The Bad Cat unleashed V2 is about the best and most affordable I’ve used out of a waza, Ox box, captor, power station, suhr, power brake even a YJM 100 which was meh at best.

But I never use it. I save it for if I ever need to knock a little bit off at a venue with a picky sound guy or decibel limit.

For home use I find good master volume circuits are the funnest and most enjoyable way to play tube Amps. Part of the reason I got addicted to Bogner amps and The Bad Cat K master circuit are unreal for home use. 


Anyone looking for killer amp tone at home should look at a k master equipped bad cat. I have a hot cat, lynx and a brand new black cat all with k master and they sound amazing at any volume. 

But I can’t play worth shit so I can’t have an informed opinion.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Milkman said:


> You're right.
> 
> I also find it hilarious how frequently we'll take advice from someone who seems to really know their shit and then we hear them play and it's a shocking let down.
> 
> (and yes, I may very well be pointing that finger at myself.)


100%

It's absolutely amazing how shit some players are, but go off at the mouth like they can play a lick. I'd love to call some guys out on this forum that need to stfu - only because they recommend shit gear.

You a good player, iirc. Didn't you post a vid of you in some sort of hair metal band YEARS ago?

There's one member (fogdart, I believe)...who has killer tone and can PLAY, so I trust him. There's the great guitarist from out east (King?) who loves danocasters and kills it. I trust him for the playability of instruments, because he WAILS. His tone is kinda ok...haha.

Look at me though...sounds like I think I know what I'm talking about. What a douche.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I've had the V1 powerstation and it was perfect. Add an FX loop to any amp without adding mods and barely colour your tone...that's awesome in my books.

It's important to note that I haven't tried any other attenuators for comparison.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Adcandour said:


> 100%
> 
> It's absolutely amazing how shit some players are, but go off at the mouth like they can play a lick. I'd love to call some guys out on this forum that need to stfu - only because they recommend shit gear.
> 
> ...


Ya you must be right I mean behind every killer amp, guitar and pedal ever designed and put into production was an amazingly talented and genius guitar player. 

Same with all the recording engineers and producers consistently kicking out better tones than they people they are hired to produce, they are all so talented and savant level musical genius and just decide to stay behind the glass.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

I suck at playing guitar, so please don't take my opinion seriously - I like the Webber Mini Mass for an affordable solution. I think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations when they start looking at attenuators - you won't be playing your half stack over casual dinner conversation.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

tdotrob said:


> Ya you must be right I mean behind every killer amp, guitar and pedal ever designed and put into production was an amazingly talented and genius guitar player.
> 
> Same with all the recording engineers and producers consistently kicking out better tones than they people they are hired to produce, they are all so talented and savant level musical genius and just decide to stay behind the glass.


Do you really think they put amps into production without having a pro play them first? Seriously? 

Even smaller outfits that do well are made by guys who can play and tweak right there - glenn morris, george metropolous, Steve Moratto...come to mind. 

there's a lot of things you can't talk about unless you can play - _some_ things you can (like maybe clarity, chime, and things you can hear), but some guys manage to mess that up.

Talking about recording engineers is kind of a straw man - not what I'm talking about at all.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Adcandour said:


> Do you really think they put amps into production without having a pro play them first? Seriously?
> 
> Even smaller outfits that do well are made by guys who can play and tweak right there - glenn morris, george metropolous, Steve Moratto...come to mind.
> 
> ...


Ya no doubt lots of guys can play to varying degree. The best amp tech I know doesn’t play guitar at all but was a sound guy and can make recommendations on tone stuff just the same and knows his shit. 

I just thought it was a such a weird flex for a couple of basement playing boomers to chime in about who is or isn’t qualified to chime in on a question about attenuator opinions like they are qualified to know who’s experiences are valid and whose aren’t.


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## pickslide (May 9, 2006)

I have owned and enjoyed an aracom attenuator, alex's (scumback) attenuator and a rivera rockcrusher.

I have owned and didnt love the Z break standalone, jhs little black box, stamis attenuator, juicebox attenuator and the weber minimass.

The ones I liked sounded great for me at even very low volumes and worked well. The ones I didnt, well they didnt, but thats my opinion. One thing was I did find some of the cheaper ones got very hot rather quickly and that made me uncomfortable using them.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

BlueRocker said:


> I suck at playing guitar, so please don't take my opinion seriously - I like the Webber Mini Mass for an affordable solution. I think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations when they start looking at attenuators - you won't be playing your half stack over casual dinner conversation.


I agree, I bought my mini mass for $60 used. When I have my amp volume at a low "television room volume" I am not moving any air at all. I will adjust the tone knobs on the amp and it sounds as good as anything can at that low of a volume.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

tdotrob said:


> Ya no doubt lots of guys can play to varying degree. The best amp tech I know doesn’t play guitar at all but was a sound guy and can make recommendations on tone stuff just the same and knows his shit.
> 
> I just thought it was a such a weird flex for a couple of basement playing boomers to chime in about who is or isn’t qualified to chime in on a question about attenuator opinions like they are qualified to know who’s experiences are valid and whose aren’t.


Firstly, I ain't a boomer - by about a decade.

Secondly, my comment is a response to Mike - how people pretending they know their shit, but they can't play. It's an epidemic. 

Although within a post about attenuators, I'm not actually talking about opinions on attenuators. I'd say that attenuation has little to do with playing ability. HOWEVER, the gentleman above who stated he is not a good player is an example of someone spreading misinformation, YOU CAN attenuate a stack to low volumes with the right piece of gear. I'm limited to knowledge of the powerstation, but I did use it with a marshall head, and it did just that.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Adcandour said:


> 100%
> 
> It's absolutely amazing how shit some players are, but go off at the mouth like they can play a lick. I'd love to call some guys out on this forum that need to stfu - only because they recommend shit gear.
> 
> ...


king loudness. (Will)
im going to state here and now I’m atleast 1/74 as good as him.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Adcandour said:


> Firstly, I ain't a boomer - by about a decade.
> 
> HOWEVER, the gentleman above who stated he is not a good player is an example of someone spreading misinformation, YOU CAN attenuate a stack to low volumes with the right piece of gear.


My point was a generalization. In my limited experience, attenuating to that low a volume makes it sound like you're playing through an AM radio. Maybe that's how you pros get all those tones. There was no misinformation in my post.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Adcandour said:


> Firstly, I ain't a boomer - by about a decade.


Oh shoot, sorry about that. I honestly couldn’t tell.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

Ok everyone, play nice…

The Garnet Mach 5 I’m going to use it with does not have a master volume, it only runs about 18 watts but it is aggressive and voiced a lot like an AC30 when it is below about half on the dial (I rented one and played them side by side). Same kind of volume too. Up higher on the dial it gets more of an old Marshall flavour. Even louder. Absolutely a blast to do too, great for Big Sugar stuff, etc. To play in my house and keep myself married I need to knock it down a bit. Probably like 3-10 db. I’d do the same at jams with my friends. I’m not playing out anymore. I’m not going to be doing any serious recording either.

I was looking at the Rockcrusher but they are out of stock everywhere. I’m still leaning towards the Ironman II.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

BlueRocker said:


> My point was a generalization. In my limited experience, attenuating to that low a volume makes it sound like you're playing through an AM radio. Maybe that's how you pros get all those tones. There was no misinformation in my post.


I must have misunderstood. It sounded like you said you won't be playing your half stack at talking levels.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Adcandour said:


> I must have misunderstood. It sounded like you said you won't be playing your half stack at talking levels.


OK Stevie Ray, you made your point.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

BlueRocker said:


> OK Stevie Ray, you made your point.


I am the true Stevie Ray Vaughan-a-be.


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## amesburymc (May 14, 2006)

I have tried Tone King Ironman II (100W), UA OX Box, Boss WAZA TAE and Fryette Power Station 100 and PS is what I still have. The lowest setting on Ironman and Ox were still too loud for me so I returned them shortly after I purchased. TAE was great but somehow it hated few amps I used to have (Metropoulos DVL-1 and Suhr PT-100). I bought PS100 after I moved from 100W amps to 20-30W amps but it was one of the better purchases I’ve made recently. It has two channels with tonals options such as presence, depth, shared bright/warm switch, etc along with FX loop.


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## David Graves (Apr 5, 2017)

garrettdavis275 said:


> I've got the Waza TAE and it's one of the best purchases I've ever made. As mentioned before though, it's not technically an attenuator though it'll accomplish the same thing (and wayyyyyy more). I have a Mesa Royal Atlantic that has a built in "power soak". I have no idea how it stacks up to dedicated attenuators but it's a really great feature in that amp. Works well, changes the tone but not unpleasantly.


I've got an RA100 as well, and have used plenty of external attenuators. The built in one on the RA works just as well. 
The nice thing is that they accounted for it when designing the amp. A slight turn clockwise on the EQ knobs seems to offset any presence that's lost when the attenuator is engaged. 
Personally, I actually prefer the amps tone with it engaged.


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## garrettdavis275 (May 30, 2014)

David Graves said:


> I've got an RA100 as well, and have used plenty of external attenuators. The built in one on the RA works just as well.
> The nice thing is that they accounted for it when designing the amp. A slight turn clockwise on the EQ knobs seems to offset any presence that's lost when the attenuator is engaged.
> Personally, I actually prefer the amps tone with it engaged.


Good to know and I totally agree with you. I always have the soak on. It softens the amp up really nicely, especially on the blue channel. Such a monster amp.


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## David Graves (Apr 5, 2017)

garrettdavis275 said:


> Good to know and I totally agree with you. I always have the soak on. It softens the amp up really nicely, especially on the blue channel. Such a monster amp.


Exactly. It can get a tad "pointy" without the soak engaged.lol


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

So, one more wrinkle in my hunt. My amp wants a 4 on load and the Iron Man II mini is 8 ohms only. There don’t seem to be many in the 500 dollar range that are 4 ohms, have adjustable attenuation and are actually in stock anywhere.


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## Dazza (Jan 16, 2011)

mrmatt1972 said:


> So, one more wrinkle in my hunt. My amp wants a 4 on load and the Iron Man II mini is 8 ohms only. There don’t seem to be many in the 500 dollar range that are 4 ohms, have adjustable attenuation and are actually in stock anywhere.


It's not such an issue - though of course there'll be those who prefer to be ohm specific. Impedance values constantly change with frequency so is never just at 4 or 8 or 16. Take into consideration the Dr Z units - useable with all impedances. They use a 24 Ohm resistor. There's a graph plotted which shows the 'actual' load per click when connected to a 4, 8 and 16 ohm load. The Ultimate Attenuator uses a 30ohm resistor and many chose to use it with amps set at 16ohm. Also different amp circuits ie Marshall have always provided different output taps whereas Fender have an additional speaker jack but no ohm selector, just a note for minimum load. Consult a trusted tech if it'd give you more confidence in choosing something. I did when I originally bought these. 20+ years of attenuators with multiple amps and never an issue.

Daz


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

mrmatt1972 said:


> So, one more wrinkle in my hunt. My amp wants a 4 on load and the Iron Man II mini is 8 ohms only. There don’t seem to be many in the 500 dollar range that are 4 ohms, have adjustable attenuation and are actually in stock anywhere.


I can’t recommend the Weber Z-Matcher enough, it solves problems.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

I will add a wrinkle here, intended mostly as food for thought rather than debate. There is an aspect to this issue that many people seem to overlook, in my observation. 

Merely taking some of the power out of the output between the amp and the speaker only addresses one part of the issue and I believe that's one of the main reasons why many people are disappointed, even when using an attenuator that is more highly regarded than some others. There's more to great overdriven tone than just tube distortion, saturation, sag, etc. There is also the way the speaker behaves when the amp is working it hard. Attenuators typically don't address that. There are qualities of tone and harmonics that are generated by the speaker when it is excited by the amplifier working it which are not present when the speaker is barely working hard. This is a two-pronged issue but most people seem to only approach it from one angle. I'm sorry if that seems to add an additional burden of complexity but I really believe there is more than one reason why many people are dissatisfied with the tones they get after attenuation.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

BMW-KTM said:


> I will add a wrinkle here, intended mostly as food for thought rather than debate. There is an aspect to this issue that many people seem to overlook, in my observation.
> 
> Merely taking some of the power out of the output between the amp and the speaker only addresses one part of the issue and I believe that's one of the main reasons why many people are disappointed, even when using an attenuator that is more highly regarded than some others. There's more to great overdriven tone than just tube distortion, saturation, sag, etc. There is also the way the speaker behaves when the amp is working it hard. Attenuators typically don't address that. There are qualities of tone and harmonics that are generated by the speaker when it is excited by the amplifier working it which are not present when the speaker is barely working hard. This is a two-pronged issue but most people seem to only approach it from one angle. I'm sorry if that seems to add an additional burden of complexity but I really believe there is more than one reason why many people are dissatisfied with the tones they get after attenuation.


Isn’t that the reason why most have “reactive loads” now, to mimic the speaker/amp interaction. Or are you talking about things like cone cry, excursion etc. personally I’m not a fan of speaker distortion, so that’sa non issue for me.

I don’t think that’s an unknown issue to anyone. I get that it needs to be EQ’ed to compensate.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

mrmatt1972 said:


> Isn’t that the reason why most have “reactive loads” now, to mimic the speaker/amp interaction. Or are you talking about things like cone cry, excursion etc. personally I’m not a fan of speaker distortion, so that’sa non issue for me.
> 
> I don’t think that’s an unknown issue to anyone. I get that it needs to be EQ’ed to compensate.


Yes ... in a way. As SPL increases, speakers behave increasingly differently. They don't have a magic threshold where they just suddenly jump from one behaviour to another. It's a gradual and cumulative thing related to SPL and yes, excursion is a part of that, amoung other factors. Below levels where we begin to hear what we normally think of as distortion or speaker breakup, there are already small things beginning to happen that we do not perceive as speaker breakup but we do perceive them as good tone. Things that don't happen at bedroom levels regardless of EQ levels or anything else along those lines. In the muscle car world they have a saying, "there's no replacement for displacement." In guitar amp world there are aspects of tone that are very hard to replace without sufficient volume.  In the digital world they try to address it with IRs but those are basically just a "sample" of a real speaker exhibiting the behaviours in the context of a cabinet. I'm not an expert and I don't profess to know everything about it but I do read about such things. Experts will assure you that long before you hear speaker breakup there have been slowly increasing amounts of various forms of distortion, some of which we find pleasing. Again, I don't know enough to answer specific technical questions. I only know enough to know such things do exist.


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## BadHiwatt (May 9, 2017)

I've tried the Weber, the Hot plate, the Jim Kelley, the Ultimate Attenuator, the Bad Cat Unleash V1 and V2, the Dr Z and the Fryette Powerstation PS2. Without a doubt, the Fryette is the best that I have tried.


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