# Refinishing my relic Classic Vibe 60



## Jamdog

Greetings. 

If you seen the NGD thread, you know I am starting a refinish project. 

Here's the current state of the project strat:










While the previous owner reliced it with a grinder (I presume) he dug in the body in an unrealistic fashion. There is unrealistic damage, either on places that makes little sense, or in a fashion that isn't usual on a guitar. 

I want to refinish it to a relic look, and some of the damage is going to be useful. But other areas are just that: damaged. And I'll fix them in the process of preparing the axe for its refinishing. 

But first thing first. 

I am thinking of using automotive lacquer - dupli-color in rattle can from Canadian tire. 
With appropriate sanding it should lead to an OK finish, to which I can then add polyurethane. 

I am no stranger to painting things, but it's my first time refinishing a guitar. Is this approach a good idea, to begin with? 

Also... The current finish. 
I an thinking of sanding it down to appropriate texture for a repaint. I am not going for wood grain, it will be covered by opaque pale color (likely surf blue or something) 










I don't think I need to strip the old finish completely, and could only sand it up to a few thousand grit? 

This thread is intended as a progress AND Q&A thread, your tips/ideas/opinions are greatly welcomed! 

I'll start to remove the parts soon, and would like to know where I am going when that happen. 
(plus, I am playing the guitar in its current state to get the feeling of it. It's a great player)


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## ed2000

Duplicolor followed by a lacquer clear coat will work. Any flaws left on the surface will be accentuated once the final coat is applied.
Just be careful of bugs being attracted to the body as it dries if you're doing it in the garage.

ps> my project was to eliminate a relic appearance.
In 1982 I bought a beat hardtail 70's Strat for $200. in St Paul, Minn, smuggled it through the airport in my suitcase, refinished and flipped it for $400.(to buy a Fender amp)


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## Jamdog

Thanks a lot for the info! 
It is indeed going to be in the garage. 

Do you think I need to strip the old finish out completely, or a good sand down will work? 

A few years ago I was into making movie prop replica, and did my share of distressing; when I first saw a road worn strat in store, I could tell it was faked damage, and tought I could do a better job. 
This 100$ CV is a great candidate for that! 

But, like you, I'll remove a lot of the distressing... I want it to look used. Not damaged. There's a big nuance. 
I don't know if you have this saying that we have in French, but "too much is like not enough."


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## Jamdog

That said, here's some detail pictures.


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## Jamdog




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## Guest

Wood filler for the gouges, prime, paint.
Then distress to your pleasure.
Lookin' forward to this.

Here's what I have deal with someday.


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## Jamdog

laristotle said:


> Wood filler for the gouges, prime, paint.
> Then distress to your pleasure.
> Lookin' forward to this.
> 
> Here's what I have deal with someday.
> 
> View attachment 22249


That is ... Interesting. That the state you got it? 




Thanks for confirming my assumption. 

I plan on doing body work, sand, prime. At that point I'll see if there's more sanding necessary and move from there.


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## Guest

Jamdog said:


> That is ... Interesting. That the state you got it?


Yes.
I wouldn't do this to any of my guitars.
Yet, it helped me to knocked the price way down.
Plays/sounds wonderful otherwise.


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## Jamdog

laristotle said:


> Yes.
> I wouldn't do this to any of my guitars.
> Yet, it helped me to knocked the price way down.
> Plays/sounds wonderful otherwise.
> 
> View attachment 22254


Yeah... Its.... Interesting. 
Not really my cup of tea. 

I can see how something that lead to probable refinish helps negotiating down. 
I knocked 20% down on the CV, and by the sellers reaction I think I could have gone lower. (I am already more than happy with the price, great deal for what it is) 
If it would have been non-altered, I am pretty sure it would have been 2-3x pricier. 
And I was looking for a project guitar, not a pristine CV. 

Tonight I need to cut the strings on it and start taking parts off, if I keep it as is I'll never make progress.


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## sulphur

That's a pretty rough relic job! 8O

I just got in a CV '50s Strat and I'm really impressed with that guitar.
I had another CV Strat and still have a CV Jazzmaster and they never disappoint.

Good luck on the refinish, I look forward to your progress.


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## Jamdog

What have I done? 











It doesn't play anymore!


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## Jamdog

Is this normal? I mean, did someone mess up on the factory, or was it somewhat altered? 










Otherwise, neck date matches serial. I guess it's a good sign. 










What are those pickups...? Any good? 









Potentiometers are tiny.


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## Jamdog

Searches on the pickup tell me they are the equivalent of tonerider classic blues set... 

Classic Blues | Tonerider

I guess those pickups, new, are worth more than I paid for the whole guitar!


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## Rideski

regarding sanding all the way down to the wood...I wouldn't personally. I'd keep the sunburst finish and color overtop. That's how Fender did the one off paint jobs back in the day rather than painting a solid color from the start. I don't remember when, what yr, they started that.
This way when you distress the guitar and wear down the solid color the sunburst would start to show through.


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## Guest

Jamdog said:


> Searches on the pickup tell me they are the equivalent of tonerider classic blues set...
> 
> Classic Blues | Tonerider
> 
> I guess those pickups, new, are worth more than I paid for the whole guitar!


Good snooping.
Apparently they're the same pups made out of the same factory.
Interesting Pickup Tidbit...

I'd get rid of the mini pots and cheap switch and replace them with CTS pots and 'switchcraft' switch.


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## JBFairthorne

While you're at it, I would COPPER foil the entire back of the pg. Next Gen has sheets big enough to do them in one piece for the cheapest I've seen anywhere. Also, he can provide you with appropriate pots/switches. Honestly, all those goodies for probably around $40 to your door. Money well spent.


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## Jamdog

Rideski said:


> regarding sanding all the way down to the wood...I wouldn't personally. I'd keep the sunburst finish and color overtop. That's how Fender did the one off paint jobs back in the day rather than painting a solid color from the start. I don't remember when, what yr, they started that.
> This way when you distress the guitar and wear down the solid color the sunburst would start to show through.


I read somewhere that they sometimes went trough the nitro finish while sanding, and then they put the body back in the cycle for a full color refinish. 
I was however worried that the paint might not stick on top, or that it would just be too thick. 

Consensus points to just put primer on top of the current paint. 
I like that! 


laristotle said:


> Good snooping.
> Apparently they're the same pups made out of the same factory.
> Interesting Pickup Tidbit...
> 
> I'd get rid of the mini pots and cheap switch and replace them with CTS pots and 'switchcraft' switch.





JBFairthorne said:


> While you're at it, I would COPPER foil the entire back of the pg. Next Gen has sheets big enough to do them in one piece for the cheapest I've seen anywhere. Also, he can provide you with appropriate pots/switches. Honestly, all those goodies for probably around $40 to your door. Money well spent.


If the grounding back paint in the pup cavity conducts well, I think I'll leave electronics as is for now and focus on refinishing. 

I can always take the pickguard off later and work that out. Plus I'd have a good comparative with "just the finish redone" 

But, thanks for the hints: I'll know where to look when time comes to change those tiny potentiometers... I doubt they'll last long before being noisy.


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## Rideski

If you lightly sand the finish to scuff it up the paint will adhere to it. If you leave it "finished" the paint may chip off easily, thus not adhering to it..


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## Jamdog

I got sandpaper in the 1000, 1500 & 2000 grit, plus scuff pads. Just realized I forgot the wood filler. 

I also have primer, and was saddened by the poor choice of color. There's like 50 shades of blue, but nothing that gets close to sonic blue. 

Here's the closest. 



















That Las one is green. 

However I found a rather interesting paint in the home paint section. 









Can I use krylon on guitars? I always associated krylon with plastic, but I guess if I put automotive polyurethane it's going to hold well...?


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## JBFairthorne

Go to an automotive paint dealer. Most of the original, classic Fender colours are actually automotive colours and I bet they can mix you exactly what you want...even put it in a spray can perhaps. The only thing I'm not sure of is if they would have the right "chemistry" for a guitar application. I'm not sure if the original Fender colours were actually automotive paint or just a different paint in an automotive colour.


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## Bastille day

Not sure how far along you are but I would start with a complete 120 - 180 orbital sand down then repair the gouges with a two part automotive filler type product. Sanding out those gouges is not an option. It will ruin the contour of the body. After the gouges are repaired, sand again with 280 - 340 grit then prime. 400 - 600 grit before paint then a clear coat looks like your only option.

Lacquer only works over lacquer. If someone used an enamel product the lacquer will likely cause it to wrinkle. You can however spray just about anything over lacquer.


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## Jamdog

Bastille day said:


> Not sure how far along you are but I would start with a complete 120 - 180 orbital sand down then repair the gouges with a two part automotive filler type product. Sanding out those gouges is not an option. It will ruin the contour of the body. After the gouges are repaired, sand again with 280 - 340 grit then prime. 400 - 600 grit before paint then a clear coat looks like your only option.


Thanks for the advices! 

I fully agree, I am not sanding the gouges down. The shape is still pretty much intact so it will be a game of filling the holes. 

My leftover inventory of sandpaper isn't as interesting as I tought it was, and I'll need to resupply up to a few hundred grits. 

Paint wise, is krylon a good idea?


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## Bastille day

I have to research that Krylon product first.

Whatever you spray for color, mist it on and let your clear coat take care of the shine.

Try and use a primer near to the final color, you will use less paint.

One can of primer, one can of base color and one can of clear should do it.


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## Bastille day

Looks like that Dual® Superbond® Paint + Primer with a top coat using Clear Polyurethane Coating is your best choice.

You can put a coat on, let it dry overnight, fix your mistakes, repeat.

A light 600-800 grit sand in between coats and before your urethane topcoat wouldn't hurt.

Wrapping your sandpaper around a scotch brite pad works good.

If your urethane clear coat sits overnight, go over it lightly with your scotch brite pad before your next coat.


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## Jamdog

I got a gray automotive primer. 

Are you suggesting I skip that and go straight to that krylon paint?


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## Bastille day

The problem with that lacquer primer is it may bite through what ever is on there now, creating more work.

It's always best to stick with products from the same company because as a rule, they are compatible.

Since you already have it, you could spray some over the old topcoat and see what happens.

To fill those gouge marks, a two part automotive product works best as it dries fast when mixed properly and will not shrink.


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## Bastille day

That Gloss Blue Ocean Breeze color is nice.

You don't necessarily need to topcoat it with clear as they state it is "gloss".

That grey primer would be perfect to spray over, just remember to scuff or sand it it or the topcoat will not adhere. You can also test spray your topcoat, spray some over your primer then after it dries attach a piece of masking tape the rip it off fast. If the paint comes off, you have no adhesion. The finer your sandpaper, the less adhesion you will have. Sanding the primer with 360-400 grit would work well, even 600 grit if you already have it.


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## Jamdog

What I am scared is that the all-in-one won't be robust, so I will add clearcoat. Not for shininess, but for hardness. 

Here's what it looks like after a pass at the scuffing pad. 










It doesn't show much on pictures, but it's rather dull.


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## Jamdog

Bastille day said:


> To fill those gouge marks, a two part automotive product works best as it dries fast when mixed properly and will not shrink.


You mean like Bondo? 

Would it work better than wood filler? I forgot to get wood filler, but have an old can of Bondo I could use if it's adequate.


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## Bastille day

Wrap some 180-240 sandpaper around a square pad of some sort and try to featheredge out your top coat.

You should fill the holes and gouges first, then sand it out.

Then prime, let set overnight and go a bit finer, maybe 360-400 grit.

When it looks good in primer, scuff sand and paint.

You can do all this over a week or a few weeks.


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## Bastille day

Yes, bondo would be much better provided you have the tube of hardner.

Just go easy on the hardner, to much of it and it does not set properly.

If that's an old can of bondo, stir it up well as the oils sit on top.

I would get likely a new can of bondo if it is too old.

It will come with a tube of hardner .

Smallest can available will be plenty.


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## Jamdog

I don't know... If I am to go to the hardware store, I'll get wood filler. I don't know that Bondo will still be looking great in 5-10 years on wood. 
Also, it's pink. Won't distress super well. 

Plus, won't Bondo be more solid than wood thus harder to sand? 
I've used it on metal, plastic, plexiglass, but am uncertain using it for wood. 

I think I'd prefer something closer to the texture and color of wood.


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## Guest

Jamdog said:


> Paint wise, is krylon a good idea?


I used it on my first strat project.
Worked fine for me.


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## Jamdog

laristotle said:


> I used it on my first strat project.
> Worked fine for me.


Your first strat project... Sounds interesting. Would you happen to have pics? 

This one right here, is MY first strat project. It'd be nice to compare.


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## Guest

'96 MIM strat
You already seen the copper foil shielding.
Wet sanded to 2000g. No clear coat.


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## Jamdog

laristotle said:


> '96 MIM strat
> You already seen the copper foil shielding.
> Wet sanded to 2000g. No clear coat.
> 
> View attachment 22305


So... Krylon, no clear, and no chipping or other issues over time?


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## Guest

I couldn't tell you that.
I sold it years ago.


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## Jamdog

laristotle said:


> I couldn't tell you that.
> I sold it years ago.


I think I'll keep to the plan of adding clearcoat... 

Anyway I'll need some for the headstock.


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## Jamdog

On a side note, while trying to find specs on that specific paint, here's what I found:










Squier Strat Repainting... - MyLesPaul.com


And










*New Krylon Report*

it's very close to what I am looking for, colorwise. 

Not sure how I could gray it out a bit.


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## Jamdog

Krylon makes a satin Catalina mist that may be of even more interest, if I can find it.


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## Jamdog

On that thread on tdpri, it is suggested to not add clear over enamel paint. 

It also suggests that you can use satin paint if you add clear. 

So I understand - just like @Bastille day said - that you don't need to clearcoat over gloss enamel.


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## Guest

I pretty much used that same colour on my El Degas project (currently owned by sambonee).
Some call it cadillac/gretch green. Others surf/seafoam green. 
The paint can says celery.


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## Bastille day

Jamdog said:


> On that thread on tdpri, it is suggested to not add clear over enamel paint.
> 
> It also suggests that you can use satin paint if you add clear.
> 
> So I understand - just like @Bastille day said - that you don't need to clearcoat over gloss enamel.


With satin you can mist it on and do it over a few or several days then add your clear coat.

If you make a mistake or get a speck of un-wanted debris, you can touch it up.

All cars these days use a basecoat which goes on dry then finished off with a clear coat.


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## Jamdog

I checked Michael's, Walmart and Reno-Depot and did not find catalina mist. 

I found interesting colours in Montana Gold



















But I don't know them. At all. 

And some aqua rustoleum 









Anyone have experience with these?


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## Jamdog

Filling has begun










Oh, and I say their shielding sucks










[edit - why is this picture upside-down?]


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## Bastille day

You should have used an automotive 2 part filler of some sort.

That wood filler stuff dries from the outside and may eventually crack.

I worked as a painter in a body shop for several years and wouldn't give bad advice.

I would also go to the dollar store and buy a piece of carpet to work on instead of using your guitar bag.


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## Jamdog

Bastille day said:


> You should have used an automotive 2 part filler of some sort.
> 
> That wood filler stuff dries from the outside and may eventually crack.
> 
> I worked as a painter in a body shop for several years and wouldn't give bad advice.
> 
> I would also go to the dollar store and buy a piece of carpet to work on instead of using your guitar bag.


The automotive body filler is meant to be applied to metal. Wood doesn't have the same characteristics. I somehow believe wood filler on wood will keep a better adherence over time, they have been using it in furniture for years and it cracks less than wood itself. I am scared bondo-to-wood will show lines at the seam in a few years as wood work and Bondo doesn't. 


BTW it's not my guitar bag, it's a leather car seat in my garage.


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## Guest

Jamdog said:


> [edit - why is this picture upside-down?]


my guess is that you held your camera phone(?) upside down when taking the pic?


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## Jamdog

laristotle said:


> my guess is that you held your camera phone(?) upside down when taking the pic?


Well... 

It was sideways. 

But the previous was too, so why aren't they at the same angle?


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## Guest

I don't own one of those.
I have no idea.


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## Jamdog

No pictures but I sanded down the first overshoot with 120 grit, and will let it dry all of tomorrow before doing the second application. The trick with wood filler is to build it up. With luck I'll be OK after the second pass and start preparing for primer this weekend.


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## Jamdog

Nothing fancy, but here's pass two of the filling. I hope to not have to do twelve of those. 
Ideally I'd start priming this weekend.


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## Robert1950

laristotle said:


> I'd get rid of the mini pots and cheap switch and replace them with CTS pots and 'switchcraft' switch.


What he says....


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## Milkman

I'd take it to the wood, finish it with a few coats of nitro and be done, sans the relic'ing, but that's just me.


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## cboutilier

Milkman said:


> I'd take it to the wood, finish it with a few coats of nitro and be done, sans the relic'ing, but that's just me.


I'm with you. The guitar needs to earn it's battle scars.


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## Jamdog

cboutilier said:


> I'm with you. The guitar needs to earn it's battle scars.


What, it didn't have enough scars?


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## cboutilier

Jamdog said:


> What, it didn't have enough scars?


I like a guitar that has a story to tell


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## Jamdog

cboutilier said:


> I like a guitar that has a story to tell


This guitar has a story to tell. 

It's an horor story.


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## Jamdog

We can see this guitar's been used, the frets show signs of wear. 











We can see, and feel, where the strings pass. I am not super used to guitars and maintenance. While I don't think it's "bad", I need to know if there's anything that I should be doing at this point.


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## JBFairthorne

You might consider a fret polish (not a full dress).


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## JBFairthorne

Oh, and a good oiling of the fretboard to condition it wouldn't hurt either. It looks pretty dry in spots.


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## Jamdog

I think I got it as close to pristine as I am willing to. 



















I could keep going, but what's left is rather subtle and may require a bit more carve in. 
And, I need to remind myself I am making a damaged guitar; a few imperfections will be just perfect. 

I also prepared my painting area and a gig to hold the guitar during paint. I decided on the shed and it was dark when it got ready, pictures next time. 

I may start masking today, but I think I'll just let it breath. It's already late.


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## dradlin

Jamdog said:


> The automotive body filler is meant to be applied to metal. Wood doesn't have the same characteristics. I somehow believe wood filler on wood will keep a better adherence over time, they have been using it in furniture for years and it cracks less than wood itself. I am scared bondo-to-wood will show lines at the seam in a few years as wood work and Bondo doesn't.
> 
> 
> BTW it's not my guitar bag, it's a leather car seat in my garage.


Bondo would have been a better choice.

You should take this down to bare wood, there is a good chance that witness lines will be visible were you sanded through the poly... especially if you are concerned about bond-to-wood lines (which is not a concern).


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## Jamdog

dradlin said:


> Bondo would have been a better choice.
> 
> You should take this down to bare wood, there is a good chance that witness lines will be visible were you sanded through the poly... especially if you are concerned about bond-to-wood lines (which is not a concern).


Bondo is pink, that would look ugly when I distress the guitar.


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## JBFairthorne

How are you going to prevent the wood filler from showing when you relic it?


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## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> How are you going to prevent the wood filler from showing when you relic it?


I'll start by trying to relic areas where it's not present. 

If it gets where there is wood filler, it can be stained and looks like wood. Mainly, if it shows it won't be dramatic. Bondo showing would result in a repaint. 

Wood filler has similar characteristics to wood, while Bondo is meant to join metal and/or fiberglass. If Bondo was a superior material for working wood, then why is Bondo making a product for wood? 

Bondo® Wood Filler, quart, 20082

Wood filler has the same density as wood and won't alter the normal wood characteristics. It is stainable and works with the wood. 


On my next step, I'll be applying masking fluid on the body before spraying primer. 
I studied how I hold this guitar, how I play it, where it rubs, where I hold it. Ill mask areas where I want to keep the wood & Sunburst showing - in a generous manner as I'll have to unmask it when I sand the primer and remask before the paint. 
It's a long process but has proven to make great results in distressing movie props.


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## Jamdog

This is masking fluid:

Maskol Masking Fluid 28ml

It is hard to get and pricey, and is composed of natural latex in liquid form, with colorant. I get uncolored liquid latex instead, as it is easier to get.


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## dradlin

Jamdog said:


> Bondo is pink, that would look ugly when I distress the guitar.


Then I would have used epoxy, if that was a concern.


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## Jamdog

dradlin said:


> Then I would have used epoxy, if that was a concern.


Why do you not like wood filler? 

It's made for wood and as far as I know the main material for that guitar ain't composite.


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## Jamdog

dradlin said:


> Then I would have used epoxy, if that was a concern.


What kind of epoxy are you talking about? Google isn't leading to valid results. 

Again, what's wrong with wood filler?


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## JBFairthorne

Maybe you should consider undercoating it in a colour you like that will go well with the final colour? That way, you get a relic look, like it's a guitar that has been worn after a refinish some time in it's life. The bonus is, the undercoat will tell you when to stop sanding before wood/wood filler shows.


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## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> Maybe you should consider undercoating it in a colour you like that will go well with the final colour? That way, you get a relic look, like it's a guitar that has been worn after a refinish some time in it's life. The bonus is, the undercoat will tell you when to stop sanding before wood/wood filler shows.


I hope the grey primer will do that.


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## JBFairthorne

Yeah, but grey primer will look lame. Iirc you were interested in a blue finish coat? Maybe an Olympic white undercoat, or even a yellow or red would look cool.


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## Jamdog

Either I was zealous to get to primer yesterday, or the wood filler shrunk overnight, but the patch up work wasn't as perfect this morning as I felt it was yesterday. 

I decided to remove all the WF and start with what I should have done from the get go. 

I prepare a paste of sawdust and carpenter's glue just like grandpa taught me and refilled the areas with that. 

Once cured I'll sand and do a wood filler pass, sand and see where I am at.


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## mr trick

you paid for the wood, if you want to remove the finish, use a stripper, that way you don't lose any patina on the surface, plus it's a lot easier than sanding with 80, 100, 120 etc, heheh, I have eaten so much sawdust in the last 40 years!


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## Jamdog

Today was acid bath day! 

While waiting for the wood putty to set, I decided it's time to age the metal hardware. 

Helped with some dollar store supply 








I made a bath









I used ferric chloride, same stuff used to etch printed circuit boards. It works on most metal, but not chrome. Would eat through stainless steel. 

The idea was not to put things in acid and let it sit, but do a quick dip, then dip two different buckets of water to rinse and finish off under running water. 

I used air filter mask and protective goggles so it didn't occur to me to take pictures of the process, sorry. 

But here's the results


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## Jamdog

The only things I didn't do yet is on the pickguard. I don't know how I'll approach aging the pickups (if at all) yet.


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## Guest

Douse it with lighter fluid?
Recreate Jimi's Monterey strat.


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## cboutilier

Jamdog said:


> The only things I didn't do yet is on the pickguard. I don't know how I'll approach aging the pickups (if at all) yet.


Perhaps soak the PG in a tub of tobacco and warm water?


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## Jamdog

cboutilier said:


> Perhaps soak the PG in a tub of tobacco and warm water?


Won't it smell awful?


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## Jamdog

That said, I am happy how the tuners and saddles came. And the screws.


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## Jamdog

Current state of the body. 

I had to fight with the contour and still need to add filling here and there, but the larger gouges are filled










I am adding a second pass of compound, then I'll do filler, sand, and be ready to prime on Wednesday or so.


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## Jamdog

laristotle said:


> Douse it with lighter fluid?
> Recreate Jimi's Monterey strat.


Like that one?


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## Jamdog

@laristotle that might be a bit too much. I try not overdo it. 

I think the pickguard may remain as is, it's a bit scratched and that should be enough. 

But I think the pickups need a bit of aging. 

I am just nervous putting ferric chloride on top of copper bobbins.


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## Guest

jes' kiddin' about the burning. lol.









For the pups, are you talking about the pole pieces?






As for the PG/pup covers and knobs ..


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## Jamdog

The covers and knobs, and the trem handle, are already cream colored instead of white, so I may leave them as-is and just add dirt and grime. 

But, yeah, I am talking about the pole pieces. It's an important detail imho.

I'll check about this aluminium oxidizer. Sounds promising.

(I knew you were kidding about the pickguard. But since it has seen a few years of wear and has some scratches, I may be satisfied with it. I don't want to overdo.)


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## Jamdog

I figure it's time for updated pics. 










What's left is minor dings, I'm doing final touches. 

To the touch, no feeling of different level. The texture changes a bit, as we change material, same with finish/unfinished. I think that'll disappear with primer and sanding. I can't wait to see how it looks primed, that'll be a great indicator of where I stand.


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## Guest

Tape up the neck pocket prior to spraying.
Don't know why, it's something I do so as not to chance a build up of paint that may affect neck angle/attachment.
Here's how I prep to paint my bodies.
In between the body and one by two, there's a thin 1/8" shim. The support doesn't touch the back of the neck pocket.


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## Jamdog

laristotle said:


> Tape up the neck pocket prior to spraying.
> Don't know why, it's something I do so as not to chance a build up of paint that may affect neck angle/attachment.
> Here's how I prep to paint my bodies.
> In between the body and one by two, there's a thin 1/8" shim so as not to touch the back of the neck pocket.
> 
> View attachment 22412


Thanks. Yes, I've read that elsewhere, to help with position when I reassemble. Even the original finish is like that. 

I plan on taping the cavities as well. No point in adding paint where it's not needed.


----------



## Guest

Dang it Jam! You're too fast on your replies.
You tend to quote me before I finish editing. lol.


----------



## Jamdog

I also want to add masking fluid on regions of interest to assist with distressing the guitar. 

Thats actually something I am looking for, can't wait to work that out. 

I noted down how I play that guitar so I can do realistic wear.


----------



## cboutilier

Jamdog said:


> I also want to add masking fluid on regions of interest to assist with distressing the guitar.
> 
> Thats actually something I am looking for, can't wait to work that out.
> 
> I noted down how I play that guitar so I can do realistic wear.


Just tape some sandpaper to your sleeve and play it for a few hours!


----------



## Jamdog

cboutilier said:


> Just tape some sandpaper to your sleeve and play it for a few hours!


This ain't a bad idea! 

Not just the sleeve, but the leg and the other sleeve. 

I realized when I played it a whole evening that I lay on it to check the phone, or drink beer. There would be wear where I put my right arm, which wouldn't be the same as you, we'd where it lay on my leg, and my torso, and where I'd lay on it to rest. Plus the stands and dings. 

It's an interesting study.


----------



## cboutilier

Jamdog said:


> This ain't a bad idea!
> 
> Not just the sleeve, but the leg and the other sleeve.
> 
> I realized when I played it a whole evening that I lay on it to check the phone, or drink beer. There would be wear where I put my right arm, which wouldn't be the same as you, we'd where it lay on my leg, and my torso, and where I'd lay on it to rest. Plus the stands and dings.
> 
> It's an interesting study.


I bet an old tweed suit would give some wear patterns. And be rediculously classy at the same time, provided you have a bIG tobacco pipe


----------



## Jamdog

cboutilier said:


> I bet an old tweed suit would give some wear patterns. And be rediculously classy at the same time, provided you have a bIG tobacco pipe


----------



## Jamdog

Today's update for the curious. 

Yesterday I did a pass with wood filler to smooth out some parts, today I sanded 150-220-400g










Theres none of the big gouges that still feel. In fact, there's barely no place we feel by touching. A few dings here and there. 
See, even that spot is rather smooth to the touch and won't be visible imo.









The spots we still feel some dénivellation is in the contour, where it hits the leg when sitting








There was major damage and as you can see it has been worked quite a lot: I feel enough. It's where it hits the leg so I guess it's OK to have dings. 


Tomorrow I'll do another pass at 400 and some surface smoothing at 1000. Unless I decide to do more smoothing. 

Then I'll start masking for a first primer Thursday. (fingers crossed)


----------



## Jamdog

Here's the masked body











We'll see when I do the first primer how well my sanding was. There's still a few areas where the texture isn't the same, I think the primer will cover that. We'll see. 

I masked generously areas of interest to be able to use non-primed for distressing. 








The masking fluid is uncoloured so it may be hard to notice. 

I also masked the pocket and every cavities, there's no point on keeping extra paint if it's not useful. 









It was sanded to 220 by machine, and with a spongy 400 by hand.


----------



## greco

Thanks for all the pics and comments your are posting. Much appreciated!!


----------



## Jamdog

I feel asleep wondering if i'll be happy with the current amount of distressing I applied via masking fluid, so I may add more before spraying: I figure I can respray with less after primer one...


----------



## davetcan

I have no idea what you're talking about but very interested in seeing the results


----------



## Jamdog

Here I got a better picture of liquid mask while it's not fully dried. 










I started to mist the primer. 










It's not covering as much as I tought. 
I'll let it set and do pass two after supper.

Edit: It's super humid today so it may not be the best day to do that...
I guess it's a bit late to think about that fact.


----------



## Jamdog

First can of primer is done. 

It started to cover when the can was done. 



















I'll get another can for tomorrow, wet sand this, remask, and keep going.


----------



## jayoldschool

I think you may be holding the can much too far away if that is the end result of one complete can. You can lay primer down much (much) heavier than that. If that's the way you are going to do top coat, it's going to cost you $100 in paint!


----------



## Jamdog

jayoldschool said:


> I think you may be holding the can much too far away if that is the end result of one complete can. You can lay primer down much (much) heavier than that. If that's the way you are going to do top coat, it's going to cost you $100 in paint!


I am holding the can about 20 cm away. Like I should. I think that specific can had issue. The sound of it tell me there was more propeller, and about no paint. It started to sound like paint was going out when I ran out of propeller. 

Even the environment barely got dirty. 

I wonder if the can was just too warm from the temperature today. 

I'll pass another can on this, and pass to colour no matter what.


----------



## Guitar101

I've found out the hard way that all painting for each layer (primer, 1st coat, etc) has to be done within a required period of time or the paint will wrinkle. My experience was on metal so I'm not sure if it's the same with wood. Check the can for re-coat times to be sure.


----------



## Jamdog

Guitar101 said:


> I've found out the hard way that all painting has to be done within a required period of time or the paint will wrinkle. My experience was on metal so I'm not sure if it's the same with wood. Check the can for re-coat times to be sure.


As far as I understand, it's either before 2 hours passed, or after one day. 

I'll do next step tomorrow.


----------



## Jamdog

I did a gentle rub on it to remove dirt or whatnot, I think I'll be OK to continue tomorrow without wet sanding, but I'll surely have to wetsand before the color. 

The surface is even. Good news, the areas that were bothering me because of texture, they seem to all feel the same now. 

The grey is more opaque in person than on picture. But not much. 










Still I was hoping to get more coverage per cans. I think that one was a dud. It felt like paint wasn't always coming out.


----------



## Jamdog

Now we're getting somewhere! 











And here are close-up where we see fluid masking for the distressing. I hope it'll do what I want. 











On another note, I received mail today










The headstock detailing was generously gifted to me by a CG member who may chime in. Thanks a lot!


----------



## Jamdog

Now we're starting to talk! 

This pain covers way better than the primer. 
(and it might very well be because of the primer...) 











Here's pictures after removing the masking fluid









I have sanded w/ 400 frit sponge, remasked (less area - that wasn't appropriate) and sprayed blue as you seen above.

I hope to save some distressing sanding/thinning that way and have something interesting to the eyes.


----------



## Jamdog

We're getting there. 

Here's what it looked like when I woke up. 










This is with fluid masking removed










I need to sand up to 100 and then I may want to remask and do another two layers. 

Otherwise, I think I like what I see so far. I still need to use thinner where my hands go, near the contour, for that used up look.


----------



## davetcan

Starting to look very interesting, nice job!


----------



## Jamdog

davetcan said:


> Starting to look very interesting, nice job!


Thanks! 

I am trying  

I've sanded (wet) with 1000, realized I missed some spot on top of the neck pocket and at the tail end, so I remasked and resprayed. 

In theory that would be the last spray








Side note, with 1000 wetsand, that paint really start to shine. It will give a good result. 


I've read a lot of folks who keep this paint as topcoat without protective gloss. I also read some scrap their work adding gloss. And I think... What if I get more damage? It's relic anyway. Lol. 

Next up: remove masking, wetsand to 2000, use paint thinner on some areas of the contour, and the body would be done!


----------



## Jamdog

... Now I need to resist the temptation of sanding it right now. Lol.

And wait till tomorrow to give it a chance to cure.


----------



## Guest

Impatience can screw up a project.
I've learned that the hard way. lol.


----------



## davetcan

If anyone has any more of these kicking around I'd be interested. No problem buying them and paying for shipping.



Jamdog said:


> On another note, I received mail today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The headstock detailing was generously gifted to me by a CG member who may chime in. Thanks a lot!


----------



## Jamdog

I am thinking of doing something a bit like that, ie with the serial under the logo. 









I'd remove the text under the fender logo. They sell rub on transfers at Michael's that I think will do great. I know, it's not authentic, but I am not aiming at authenticity. 

I'd like to keep the squier serial in there, but want to go without gloss on all but the top of the headstock. 

So, good idea?


----------



## Guest

You can also buy waterslide decal paper at any model store and print off your own custom.


----------



## bzrkrage

^^^^ What he said.











Sent from my Other Brain


----------



## Jamdog

This is today's progress so far. 




















Thats with 1000 grit and removing masking fluid.


----------



## Jamdog

Pain thinner wouldn't work, I used stripper insteaf










Now up to 1500 grit:


----------



## Jamdog

And a test fit to see if I like it. 










Someone wants to ask if I like it?


----------



## greco

I'll bite...Do you like it?


----------



## Jamdog

greco said:


> I'll bite...Do you like it?


Yes, I like it very much. It's not exactly how I envisioned it, but it looks great. Don't you think?


----------



## Jamdog

Look at that nice headstock 










And the neck, it's all nakid! 










Well, not all


----------



## Jamdog

Here's a question. Do I need to add clear lacquer on top of the krylon to prevent marking, or will the polishing compound give enough protection to the touches?


----------



## Guest

I'm liking what it's becoming.
The neck needs work now too.
Including cigarette burns.


----------



## Guest

Jamdog said:


> Here's a question. Do I need to add clear lacquer on top of the krylon to prevent marking, or will the polishing compound give enough protection to the touches?


I'd say no to any protection/clear coat what so ever.
After it's finished, any war wounds you add to it will just enhance it.


----------



## Jamdog

laristotle said:


> I'm liking what it's becoming.
> The neck needs work now too.
> Including cigarette burns.


Yeah butt I don't smoke cigarettes... 

I am not sure I want to damage the fretboard quite that much, while I want the looks, I want to keep it playable. I am open to suggestions as to what kind of non destructive distressing I can put on the rosewood. 
Maybe I'll just omit to oil it for a while. 

I am also wondering how to make the neck older. I guess I'll figure that when I oil it after I am done with the headstock. 


laristotle said:


> I'd say no to any protection/clear coat what so ever.
> After it's finished, any war wounds you add to it will just enhance it.


Thanks for the vote of confidence! 

It was my first thought, but somehow I was starting to doubt.


----------



## Jamdog

Oh, and I dropped the pickguard. There may be a kink in the cutaway horn section when I reinstall it. Oops. Lol


----------



## Guest

There are a couple of relic'n masters on this forum.
Hopefully, they'll chime in with some ideas.


----------



## JethroTech

I love relic'd guitar bodies and necks but I find the headstock cigarette burn to be a little played out. If you're going to do it, less is more. A little bit of cigarette burn goes a long, long way


----------



## Jamdog

JethroTech said:


> I love relic'd guitar bodies and necks but I find the headstock cigarette burn to be a little played out. If you're going to do it, less is more. A little bit of cigarette burn goes a long, long way


There was damage at the end of the headstock that I tought would look great. Turns out it was just in the clearcoat and we don't see it anymore. 

I may want to do something there.


----------



## Jamdog

Test fit






























Should I care about the finish at that section of the neck, or should I sand it down?

I don't want to damage the fretboard in the 15-21th frets.


----------



## cboutilier

My acoustic has a nice cigarette burn in it now. Went on a bad one a few weekends ago and put it back in its case with a lit smoke in the E string. Luckily it smouldered out before the HSC caught on fire


----------



## Jamdog

cboutilier said:


> My acoustic has a nice cigarette burn in it now. Went on a bad one a few weekends ago and put it back in its case with a lit smoke in the E string. Luckily it smouldered out before the HSC caught on fire


Ouch. Lucky the case (and house) didn't burn!


----------



## Brett Pearson

You've done a nice job so far. I have been following your progress and it is looking good. Re-fins are a lot of work but they are fun and you will have a great player and looker when you are done. With all the re-fins that I have done ( I'm no expert mind you), very few turned out exactly as I envisioned them too, but that's ok as we tend to change things along the way once we get into the project and it evolves as we go through the process. I look forward to seeing how this turns out.


----------



## Jamdog

Thanks Brett. 


Today's progress is small. Another wetsand pass, and some work on the neck


----------



## Jamdog

I started to work the polishing compound. 

Mr. Miagi lied. Wax-on, wax-off isn't the way. You need to wait for the polishing compound to form a white film before taking it off. 

I think it will look great. Pics later.


----------



## Jamdog

Reassembly has begun! 











OK, I only put the PG on the body, nothing fancy yet.


----------



## Jamdog

Here are some PG detailing. 





















Distressing the screws and pickups...


----------



## Jamdog

Applying decal. 
I read a lot online about how people apply model decal, like on model cars. Making it right is even more essential on those tiny replicas. 

They use a few fluids to help. One to help set, and one to help dilute the film. 

The setting fluid you can apparently use vinegar. And to help dissolve, you can use rubbing alcohol. 
Or so is told on airplane model forums. 



We will see when it is fully dried if it's visible, but right now it is pretty dim. We may be able to see it only at some angles. 

Oddly enough however there's some damage on a part of the decal.


----------



## Guest

Jamdog said:


> Oddly enough however there's some damage on a part of the decal.


So? .. it's a relic. lol.


----------



## Jamdog

laristotle said:


> So? .. it's a relic. lol.


I just don't know where it comes from. I must have touched it or something. Relic are pieces of art, so it's all about using whatever comes to the guitar and use it. 



So. 


I reworked the headstock some more. 










Tonight I'll get appropriate wood oil for the neck and get that going. We're in the interesting phase of seeing everything coming together.


----------



## JethroTech

I'm loving this thread. The guitar is looking great. Keep it coming!


----------



## Jamdog

JethroTech said:


> I'm loving this thread. The guitar is looking great. Keep it coming!


Thanks! 

I think my bet of "I can have a cool looking relic without paying custom shop price" will pay off


----------



## JethroTech

Jamdog said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I think my bet of "I can have a cool looking relic without paying custom shop price" will pay off


I'll have to live vicariously through your relic job as I was born without the patience and attention-to-detail gene


----------



## Jamdog

JethroTech said:


> I'll have to live vicariously through your relic job as I was born without the patience and attention-to-detail gene


This project is working my lack in the skill of patience...


----------



## Jamdog

I couldn't get to the hardware store, but managed to continue reconstruction 










The neck will be bolted on when it's oiled up. 

So all that's currently left is oiling the neck, installing the tuners, installing the neck, restringung, tuning, intonating.


----------



## Guitar101

Your the master of taking an old guitar and making it look old again.


----------



## High/Deaf

Jamdog said:


> I just don't know where it comes from. I must have touched it or something. Relic are pieces of art, so it's all about using whatever comes to the guitar and use it.
> 
> 
> 
> So.
> 
> 
> I reworked the headstock some more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tonight I'll get appropriate wood oil for the neck and get that going. We're in the interesting phase of seeing everything coming together.


That pic reminds me of one of these


----------



## Jamdog

High/Deaf said:


> That pic reminds me of one of these


That headstock was taken on quite a big guitar!


----------



## Jamdog

Guitar101 said:


> Your the master of taking an old guitar and making it look old again.


The point was to take a guitar that looked damaged, and make a guitar that looks old. And in the color I wanted. 

But thanks for the comment, I am happy it actually looks old.


----------



## Jamdog

Here's the guitar with my favorite strap:










I had to fight a fret buzz on the 12th fret. But otherwise all is good.


----------



## JBFairthorne

Regarding the fret buzz on the 12th...

Sometimes, if the fretboard is particularly dry, the wood shrinks, widening the gaps where the frets sit. Most Strats I've come across, the frets are not glued in, they're held with pressure. As the gaps widen the pressure holding the frets in decreases and they can lift a bit. The solution can be as simple as oiling the fretboard a few times and re-moisturizing it, thus swelling the wood a little and tightening the gaps, then hammering the offending frets back in with a rubber mallet. It worked for me on a Strat that I practically stole off a guy because (I assume) he thought it had issues. It's actually my #1 Strat now. One of the most well balanced sounding Strats I've ever heard. The best I've ever played.


----------



## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> Regarding the fret buzz on the 12th...
> 
> Sometimes, if the fretboard is particularly dry, the wood shrinks, widening the gaps where the frets sit. Most Strats I've come across, the frets are not glued in, they're held with pressure. As the gaps widen the pressure holding the frets in decreases and they can lift a bit. The solution can be as simple as oiling the fretboard a few times and re-moisturizing it, thus swelling the wood a little and tightening the gaps, then hammering the offending frets back in with a rubber mallet. It worked for me on a Strat that I practically stole off a guy because (I assume) he thought it had issues. It's actually my #1 Strat now. One of the most well balanced sounding Strats I've ever heard. The best I've ever played.


Thanks for the information! 

I'll look into that. 

Something else... I am trying "skinny top heavy bottom" strings, and I think the heavy big strings amplify what would otherwise be milder. When I got this guitar only the low E string had this buzz, and it wasn't as bad. 

That said, I think I am nearing the end of the truss rod. I may need something in the neck pocket? Perhaps I altered the body-neck contact surface? 

Can that be?


----------



## JBFairthorne

Well, there is the overall neck angle to consider, although I'm no expert on when adjustment is necessary. Many Strats now have the microtilt feature making adjusting neck angle without all the shimming much easier. I would "think" adjusting neck angle would only be necessary if you have LOTS of buzzing going on all over the place instead of isolated issues.


----------



## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> Well, there is the overall neck angle to consider, although I'm no expert on when adjustment is necessary. Many Strats now have the microtilt feature making adjusting neck angle without all the shimming much easier. I would "think" adjusting neck angle would only be necessary if you have LOTS of buzzing going on all over the place instead of isolated issues.


At this point, it is on heavier strings, starting at fret 12. 
But I played with the truss rod and the saddles and got rid of all of this, while still keeping a not too high action, and managing a decent intonation. I may be OK. 

But I'll read up on shimming, may come in handy.


----------



## Jamdog

I got into thinking, perhaps I am looking at this the wrong way. 

The neck, when I got it, was nearing the end of the truss rod. In essence, bowing it somewhat. 

Perhaps what I need to do is go the other way around which would unbow it, and readjust the saddles and I'll get the buzz out.
Maybe I'll even get a better action. 

Who knows how the previous owner adjusted it.....


----------



## JBFairthorne

If it has a bi-flex truss rod it's possible. A bi-flex can push both ways (as I understand it). A traditional rod only pushes one way. I would check the specs and see what yours SHOULD have in it.


----------



## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> If it has a bi-flex truss rod it's possible. A bi-flex can push both ways (as I understand it). A traditional rod only pushes one way. I would check the specs and see what yours SHOULD have in it.


Thanks. 

As far as I understand, the rod is pretty much all the way in right now. 

Tonight I'll try to unscrew it a bit and see if I can get a good action with no buzz.


----------



## Jamdog

Now I got buzz all over the place. 
Right now it starts at fret 5 on most strings. That's with higher action than this morning. 

I've tried clockwise and counter clockwise and all I get is buzz everywhere. How does the rod work again?


----------



## Jamdog

I went ahead and added a shim made of wood veneer. Dark walnut to be precise. Lol. 

The top half, sanded to help with angle. 

I no longer have any buzz, and the action is somewhat low. 

I think I had to do that.


----------



## JBFairthorne

Maybe, maybe not. It might be a bit drastic to shim before you've even properly measured neck relief not to mention actually adjusting to the proper neck relief. I would set up the guitar properly, to spec and then if the issue persisted I would give the frets a tap before I shimmed the neck. If the neck didn't really need to be shimmed (I'm not saying it did or didn't need it) then the unnecessary shim is just hiding the actual issue. Shimming the neck is the last thing I'd do after I had exhausted all other reasonable options.


----------



## davetcan

Jamdog said:


> Now I got buzz all over the place.
> Right now it starts at fret 5 on most strings. That's with higher action than this morning.
> 
> I've tried clockwise and counter clockwise and all I get is buzz everywhere. How does the rod work again?


Setting Up Your Stratocaster Guitar - ELIXIR Strings


----------



## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> Maybe, maybe not. It might be a bit drastic to shim before you've even properly measured neck relief not to mention actually adjusting to the proper neck relief. I would set up the guitar properly, to spec and then if the issue persisted I would give the frets a tap before I shimmed the neck. If the neck didn't really need to be shimmed (I'm not saying it did or didn't need it) then the unnecessary shim is just hiding the actual issue. Shimming the neck is the last thing I'd do after I had exhausted all other reasonable options.


Sound easy to say. 

I don't have neck relief measuring equipment. But i know that no matter where I placed the truss rod, I had either major buzz or 1km of action. 

I also know that a few days ago I sanded down the finish on the neck. 

So, unless anyone can tell me an efficient way to make a perfect truss rod adjustment blindly, I see no other option.


----------



## davetcan

Jamdog said:


> Sound easy to say.
> 
> I don't have neck relief measuring equipment. But i know that no matter where I placed the truss rod, I had either major buzz or 1km of action.
> 
> I also know that a few days ago I sanded down the finish on the neck.
> 
> So, unless anyone can tell me an efficient way to make a perfect truss rod adjustment blindly, I see no other option.


A credit card would work just fine as a feeler guage.


----------



## JBFairthorne

All you need to measure neck relief is a capo and a $10 set of automotive feeler gauges. A credit card is WAY too thick. Fender calls for .2 - .3 mm depending on the fretboard radius.

Stratocaster® Setup Guide | Fender Support


----------



## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> All you need to measure neck relief is a capo and a $10 set of automotive feeler gauges.


Lol I have neither! 

But I'll look into getting feeler gauges at Canadian tire.


----------



## JBFairthorne

Well the feeler gauges are handy to have and a capo is really cool, it'll grow on ya.


----------



## Guest

Eyeball the neck at the side.
Hold down the 'E' string at the first and last fret.
There should be a small gap (credit card thickness)
in the middle of the string (around frets 8 or 9).


----------



## Jamdog

laristotle said:


> Eyeball the neck at the side.
> Hold down the 'E' string at the first and last fret.
> There should be a small gap (credit card thickness)
> in the middle of the string (around frets 8 or 9).


I'll try that today. I'll need to volunteer a helper.


----------



## JBFairthorne

Credit card is TOO THICK (about 3X too thick). For a Strat, you're talking about the thickness of a thick-ish sheet of paper, not a credit card. Maybe one of those super thin, crappy plastic membership cards or something. Be safe, and accurate, get feeler gauges.


----------



## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> Credit card is TOO THICK.


Debit card?


----------



## JBFairthorne

Check the Fender specs for the radius of the fretboard on the neck for your guitar and go from there.

Stratocaster® Setup Guide | Fender Support

Radius/Relief

7.25"/0.012" (0.3 mm)
9.5"-12"/0.010" (0.25 mm) this is probably your radius.
15"-17"/0.008" (0.20 mm)

None of those measurements are anywhere near the thickness of a standard CC or DC. Also make sure you measure the right way in the right place. Capo 1, fret last fret, measure between bottom of string and top of 8th fret.


----------



## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> Check the Fender specs for the radius of the fretboard on the neck for your guitar and go from there.
> 
> Stratocaster® Setup Guide | Fender Support
> 
> Radius Relief
> 
> 7.25" 0.012" (0.3 mm)
> 9.5"-12" 0.010" (0.25 mm) this is probably your radius.
> 15"-17" 0.008" (0.20 mm)
> 
> None of those measurements are anywhere near the thickness of a standard CC or DC.


So, what's you quick and dirty rule of thumbs suggestion in place of the proposed credit card?


----------



## Guest

Jamdog said:


> I'll try that today. I'll need to volunteer a helper.


Or use a capo on the 1st fret, as JB suggested.


----------



## Guest

Jamdog said:


> So, what's you quick and dirty rule of thumbs suggestion in place of the proposed credit card?


Eyeball it. You want to see a small gap between the fret and the underside of the string.


----------



## JBFairthorne

Well, seeing as how Fender suggests using feeler gauges that's what I use. As you can see the differences are minimal and there's not much point bothering unless you're gonna get it pretty close to spec. I would say the "I'm too lazy to get the right tool that is common and do it properly" size is roughly a hair thicker than a nice quality heavy-ish sheet of paper.

FYI, the reason you capo 1 is to remove the nut (and any problems it might have) from the equation.


----------



## Guitar101

Lots of good suggestions here. If you've tried everything that the guy said to do in the video in post 164 and your still having problems, you'll have to look at other options. It's an excellent video that I've bookmark for future use. Don't get too worried about not having the proper guages. Most tape measures show small distances that can give you an idea of the gap sizes your looking for. Think mm's


----------



## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> Well, seeing as how Fender suggests using feeler gauges that's what I use. As you can see the differences are minimal and there's not much point bothering unless you're gonna get it pretty close to spec. I would say the "I'm too lazy to get the right tool that is common and do it properly" size is roughly a hair thicker than a nice quality heavy-ish sheet of paper.
> 
> FYI, the reason you capo 1 is to remove the nut (and any problems it might have) from the equation.


What's laziness has to do in there? 

Are you pissed off?


----------



## JBFairthorne

Let me try and put this in perspective a bit...

You spent how many hours getting the stuff together and refinishing this Strat and taking pictures to document the process and now you're NOT going to get a couple of small tools that are cheap and easy to find and can be used repeatedly in the future in order to set the guitar up properly? This small investment in tools and the time to learn how to set-up your own guitars properly will pay off huge long term.

Edit, the lazy comment was just a tongue in cheek joke, nothing personal. Lighten up Francis. Lol.


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## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> Let me try and put this in perspective a bit...
> 
> You spent how many hours getting the stuff together and refinishing this Strat and taking pictures to document the process and now you're NOT going to get a couple of small tools that are cheap and easy to find and can be used repeatedly in the future in order to set the guitar up properly? This small investment in tools and the time to learn how to set-up your own guitars properly will pay off huge long term.
> 
> Edit, the lazy comment was just a tongue in cheek joke, nothing personal. Lighten up Francis. Lol.


Have you looked at post #168?

Reality is, going to the hardware store with the kids is a quest and that has not yet happened today. 

In the meanwhile, I took my lazy ass up to the guitar, and eyeball it with a credit card as suggested, and the gap at fret 9 is larger than that. 

While the proper tool can fine tune it, the rule of thumb method can lead to immediate answers. 

Sorry if I don't understand tongue and cheek jokes, but if I'd joke with you in French, you may not like it...


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## Jamdog

What direction do I need to twist the truss rod?


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## JBFairthorne

If you joked with me in French I probably wouldn't be able to fully understand it...


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## JBFairthorne

If you measured the relief with a capo at fret 1 (or a kid's finger) and fretted the last fret at the same time, and measured the relief at the *8th* fret (the gap between the bottom of the string and top of the fret) and it was wider than a CC, then you have too much relief and want to straighten the neck. Turn clockwise (you should feel more resistance this way as opposed to adding relief).


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## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> If you measured the relief with a capo at fret 1 (or a kid's finger) and fretted the last fret at the same time, and measured the relief at the *8th* fret (the gap between the bottom of the string and top of the fret) and it was wider than a CC, then you have too much relief and want to straighten the neck. Turn clockwise (you should feel more resistance this way as opposed to adding relief).


Exactly. 

How much resistance should I get? 

It feels like I'm forcing a bold that may be at its max. That the normal feeling? 

And, should I go a quarter turn?


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## JBFairthorne

I'm reluctant to offer advise beyond, don't force it if it feels too tight without knowing for sure something hasn't gotten lost in translation and been misinterpreted resulting in you trying to turn it the wrong way. I just don't want you to break anything. Occasionally, when tightening the truss rod, it'll stick a bit and provide a bit of resistance, but not much. I'd start with 8th turns until you get it close, then let it sit a bit to stabilize and recheck adjusting by 16th turns.

To be clear, if you're looking down the neck from the headstock (closest to your face) to the body (and the allen key is in the slot at the nut), turn clockwise to tighten (straighten), turn counter to loosen (add relief).


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## Jamdog

Oh yeah. Now I see a difference. 

I am working my way clockwise and seeing the gap going down. 

My Allen key seems to slip if I use the shorter side, but works on the longer one. 

Now I am between .76 and .46 
If I believe my various picks thicknesses... 

Is it normal the wrench sometimes get stuck in the truss rod? How do I get it out?


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## Jamdog

Now I am a bit below 0.46mm the thinnest pick I have. To finish up I'll need something more precise.


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## JBFairthorne

It shouldn't get stuck beyond a wiggle to release. It's possible there's a little rust in the bolt head tightening the spot for the allen key. Carefully and sparingly applied lube in the hole will help work any stiffness out hopefully as well as clearing some rust in the bolt head as you insert/remove allen key.


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## JBFairthorne

Feeler gauge at Canadian Tire...$9.99

| Canadian Tire


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## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> Feeler gauge at Canadian Tire...$9.99
> 
> | Canadian Tire


Jr is helping out, but the daughter is still in bed...


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## Guest

Jamdog said:


> Is it normal the wrench sometimes get stuck in the truss rod? How do I get it out?


Is a string pressed up against it?
That little bit of pressure against the wrench will make it difficult to pull it out.
Move it aside.


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## Jamdog

laristotle said:


> Is a string pressed up against it?
> That little bit of pressure against the wrench will make it difficult to pull it out.
> Move it aside.


Yes, that's the case. Thanks for pointing it out!


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## Jamdog

Thanks a lot guys. 

Right now, I've set the neck much closer to what it should be, I don't knot how the previous owner did set it, but right now it's way better. I'll work more on it later, but with the neck straighter I removed the shim and readjusted the action, lower than it ever was, and have barely any buzz remaining - what's I attributes to the heavy bottom string that may be wrong on my strat, and is more annoyance as it doesn't sound in the amp. 

I like the lower action! 

Thanks a lot for the tips and information guys!


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## cboutilier

I have feeler gauges, but I dont even bother using them on my necks. I just eyeball it until its close, then retune and play it. If it's buzzing, or feels to high or low for my fingers I fine tune from there.


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## JBFairthorne

People do all sorts of weird things to guitars (other than just setting them up properly) in order to make them "playable". I'm glad things worked out. Once you've got the neck relief right, adjust action, then pickup height, then recheck all measurements as these adjustments are all interactive somewhat. The link I posted shows a list of what order to do things and the recommended measurements. These are all just a starting point though, tweak to suit your tastes/needs.


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## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> People do all sorts of weird things to guitars (other than just setting them up properly) in order to make them "playable". I'm glad things worked out. Once you've got the neck relief right, adjust action, then pickup height, then recheck all measurements as these adjustments are all interactive somewhat. The link I posted shows a list of what order to do things and the recommended measurements. These are all just a starting point though, tweak to suit your tastes/needs.


Thanks a lot


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## Jamdog

After some rest, the fret buzzes are back. 
Mainly on the low E. Might be caused by them stupid heavy bottom strings. 
They are 10-52, while usual 10s are 10-46 and people often put 9-42, a whole 10 gauge smaller... 

On another note, I think I am slowly stripping my truss rod bolt head. So I will stop trying to get it to the magical 0.20.

The low E saddle is pretty musc as high as it can get, what next?


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## Jamdog

On another hand, it does not come trough the amp. Maybe the acoustic buzzing just annoy me more today than yesterday or something. 

Is it somewhat normal to hear some buzzing on the strings while you play?


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## Jamdog

Turns out the truss rod and the hole for it aren't super well aligned. 

It's apparently common, or so my interwebs searches say. 

Gentle taping render the 5mm key to grip like it's supposed to. 

I think I'll change the strings to some more usual 9-42 and see where I stand.


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## Jamdog

I think I got to the end of the truss rod, I don't think I could turn more. It felt that way anyway. And I was still too high on the relief. I am sure the heavier strings aren't good for this neck. 

So i changed the bottom strings (gives me 10-42)

But still had some buzz on the low E. So I put back a portion of the shim, just enough to be able to comfortably ajust the saddles. The action is ok, and I have no annoying fret buzz, all while being closer than ever to specs on the neck relief. 

I think that's great. Maybe I should just pass the base of the neck back to the sander and correct the minor angle issue....? 

Anyway, the guitar is back being fun to play, and that's a great deal. 




... 



Also, I saw another classic vibe 60 Sunburst at the store. New, it's 535$+tx! 
I just can't believe how much cheaper mine was. 

And my daughter was pointing to a relic LTD (their fender relic that triggered that refinish, got sold. It was better looking) 
Her comment on the LTD? "oh, like you wanted to do with your guitar, but uglier"


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## JBFairthorne

If a shim works DON'T sand anything.


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## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> If a shim works DON'T sand anything.


Good to know, thanks. The shim (very small) seems to do the trick perfectly. Plus, I can keep the relief at an appropriate level. 

I think either the neck was already a bit that way, or me removing the finish (I tried to keep the heel as is) altered the angle just that much. Or both. 

Anyway, I learned a lot on how to adjust the neck, and got a good result.


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## JBFairthorne

The problem with sanding is...you can't put it back if you overdo it.


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## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> The problem with sanding is...you can't put it back if you overdo it.


Good point. 

But we can add shims


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## JBFairthorne

Just curious...your guitar didn't have a micro-tilt adjustment on it? It's really cool, a small metal disc which adjusts neck angle by an allen key through the neck plate (once you loosen the neck bolts). You turn the metal plate and, I assume, the disc turns to a thicker or thinner portion of the disc, tweaking the neck angle. No shims required.


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## Jamdog

No it didn't. I would have liked that. 

Do you know if we can convert to microtilt?


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## JBFairthorne

I've never seen the little plate itself for sale. I imagine it could be done, but it's probably more trouble than it's worth.


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## Jamdog

JBFairthorne said:


> I've never seen the little plate itself for sale. I imagine it could be done, but it's probably more trouble than it's worth.


I agree. It works as is, why fix it?


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## Jamdog

Et scratches appeared on my new strat!!    









Lol


Here's some more closeups that I promised.


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## Budda

Have you considered giving the metal components a chemical bath?


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## Jamdog

Budda said:


> Have you considered giving the metal components a chemical bath?


I dipped every metal in ferric chloride, that's why they lost their shine. But the bridge is chromed, even century-old chrome still shine. I don't know how to mimic the chipping...


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## Jamdog

Here's what bridge and saddles looked like originally


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## Jamdog

The tuners were very shiny too










Not so much now


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## Budda

Huh. So the chemical bath has the opposite effect here.


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## Jamdog

Budda said:


> Huh. So the chemical bath has the opposite effect here.


I guess it depends what chemicals. What are you referring to?


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## Budda

Jamdog said:


> I guess it depends what chemicals. What are you referring to?


Normally the chemical bath is to clean up metal parts, but in this case it seems to have aged yours.


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## Jamdog

Budda said:


> Normally the chemical bath is to clean up metal parts, but in this case it seems to have aged yours.


What kind of chemicals are you talking about? 

I used acid. It's not meant to clean.


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## Budda

Jamdog said:


> What kind of chemicals are you talking about?
> 
> I used acid. It's not meant to clean.


CLR type stuff to restore.


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## Jamdog

Budda said:


> CLR type stuff to restore.


Bah, that's not what I envisioned for chemical bath...


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