# Broken Headstock - sniff



## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Well, nearly the worst thing that could happen happened - I knocked over my brand new and much beloved ES 330 VOS and snapped off the headstock. It's a clean break but I could only find some of the chips of thick finish from the front of the headstock.

I won't go on what a tragedy this is for me and I know it will be an expensive repair, done professionally, so I may have to wait for a while to reglue it. Another thought is to trasfer the wonderful electronics to my Epiphone Casino until I can afford the repair. That will cost a few bucks too, as I don't have the tools to mount the controls.

I'm still in a bit of shock so I will take my time to decide what to do. Is there anyone in Edmonton that would be qualified to undertake re-attacking a broken headstock? If not, I may have to ship it to somebody.

My beautiful guitar - whaaaaaaahhhhh

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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

ouch....

I wish we had more access to more luthiers here in Edmonton.

any idea who you're sending it to fo repait yet?


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## zurn (Oct 21, 2009)

Holy crap, that sux man. I'm glad most of my guitars are cheapo's cause with three kids, who knows what can happen


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

That's a big drag. I've seen it all to often on Gibbys.
Some light reading to distract you from your sore neck.
Guitar Repair Las Vegas, Broken Gibson Guitars - Poorly Designed and Overpriced

Guitar Specialist - Guitar repair and restoration services - Guitar Repair - Headstock Repair


D.


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## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

That's not as bad as you might think. As breaks go it is one of the better ones, and easier to fix. You don't even neccessarily need a luthier, just a very good wood worker, preferably one with experience repairing and restoring antique furniture: should be a lot more of them around.


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

Ouch! So sorry to hear this. Hope you can fix it soon.


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## BEMUSofNrthAmra (Jun 9, 2012)

That hurts to look at.

I'm having my Gibson turned into an aluminum neck guitar. Shoot, I should be able to chop wood with my SG when it's done.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

If you cannot find anyone locally to fix this and need to ship it contact Mike McConville in Stratford Ontario. He's been at it many years and specializes in head stock repairs.

Contact info here:
http://mcconvilleguitars.blogspot.com/


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## NGroeneveld (Jan 23, 2011)

Ouch. There is a wide range of options to choose from on a break like that, ranging from the very cheap, where you just glue it back together yourself, to the middle, have someone else glue it back together, or to the very expensive, where an experienced luthier glues it back together and refins it in such a way that it's almost impossible to detect the break. Your choice - good luck!!


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

What's the shop on 118 Ave, a little ways east of 97th? I bet they could do it (the place that sells Collings)


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

mahyers music (spelling is probably wrong)

my experience there was not great. I'm not sure I'd personally recommend them. they did an atrocious job on my fret level.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Oh man, I know exactly how you feel. I went through the same thing a couple years back with my LP.

My advice is take your time to ask around and find someone who will do a good job. Also, it _may_ not be quite as expensive as you think. I got mine done with a professional luthier and it cost me right around $200. It's a super-solid fix and the guitar plays and holds tune as well as before. I just chose to NOT get it refinished, which saved me a bunch. It's a little ugly, but hey, its resale value is so low that I'm never going to move it and the repair doesn't bug me, so that's an option (check the pics below). 

Now mine didn't come right off, but it was all the way through the wood. The only thing holding it together was the veneer on the headstock, so it was pretty much a full break.

I know how devastated you must feel right now, but honestly, when you find the right person and get the repair done, you're going to be SO happy to have that guitar back.


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

There are actually several shops I would trust in Edmonton including The Acoustic Music Shop on Whyte and 99th, Mhyer's Music on 118th ave (as already mentioned) and Avenue Guitars. All are quite capable.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

keto said:


> What's the shop on 118 Ave, a little ways east of 97th? I bet they could do it (the place that sells Collings)


A good option to check out. Thanks Keto. And thanks blam for the cautionary warning!. I've also been in touch with Marvin.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Thanks for the encouragement, man. I am so in shock, I still can't believe it happened. But it did and now I have to make the best of it. Thanks for the pix. The break on your LP is pretty similar to mine and even if it takes $1000 to have it repaired right, I will do it. I know the resale value just plummitted but I don't care because it is a perfect guitar for me and I will never sell it anyway. Cosmetics is not important to me (battlescars happen) but I would also go for a good refinishing if it isn't too dear.

As per your advice, I will take my time to get this repair done right though.



hollowbody said:


> Oh man, I know exactly how you feel. I went through the same thing a couple years back with my LP.
> 
> My advice is take your time to ask around and find someone who will do a good job. Also, it _may_ not be quite as expensive as you think. I got mine done with a professional luthier and it cost me right around $200. It's a super-solid fix and the guitar plays and holds tune as well as before. I just chose to NOT get it refinished, which saved me a bunch. It's a little ugly, but hey, its resale value is so low that I'm never going to move it and the repair doesn't bug me, so that's an option (check the pics below).
> 
> ...


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I've fixed a few like that and it isn't very hard. It should not be very expensive either unless you are set on a refinish too. Josh House here in Goderich (www.houseguitars.com) did an LP break that was way worse than yours, splintered half the neck, and as God is my witness he made the repair invisible. There should be someone more local for you.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

ouch, I am hurting for you


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

That is a nasty break and an unfortunate incident but as far as headstock breaks go I agree with washburned that it is really a relatively easy fixed by an experienced Luthier. The fix could be made to appear invisible for the right amount of cash. I learned my lesson years ago when an old Junior was leaned against a coffee table and took a plunge on it's own with a headstock break. Never fun to watch and you have my sincere sympathy.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Oooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww !! That is painful to look at. Good luck in your repair quest.


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## Tarbender (Apr 7, 2006)

I'm a grown man but my eyes are tearing up looking at that. I feel for you buddy...


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

I can imagine how you feel about this. But I'm sure it could be fixed. Good luck...


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## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

It can certainly be repaired to play as good as new. I've played quite a few great Gibbys over the years with repaired headstocks. That being said, its a real heartbreaker to have this happen to a new guitar.


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## WannabeGood (Oct 24, 2007)

If you can't find someone locally try contacting Dave Freeman at Timeless Instruments in Tugaske, Sask. Seth if you come across this feel free to chime in.

Regards,


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Looking around the internet, it seems that repairing Gibson headstocks is a cottage industry. I've seen a few in my time but had no idea the problem is so common.

I gotta comment on all the great input from a great bunch of folks here at GC. It is much appreciated. I look forward to and welcome any and all input or suggestions.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I went through a headstock break with my classical guitar--I had it in a cheap case, slipped on some ice, and it landed hard--seeing the headstock not attached made me feel like someone kicked me in the gut--real hard.
Fortunately I had a friend who is good with woodwork & guitar repairs--so he did a great job.
And I got a real case as well to better protect it.

Hope it has a happy ending...


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

So sorry that this happened bluzfish.

I hope you get it resolved without too much trouble.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Thanks sulpher. I really appreciate everyone's support. Marvin has been a great help and perhaps my salvation.

I have to laugh though. I've offered words of sympathy and assurances that everything will be fine to others with lopped off headstocks. "Don't worry. It'll be stronger than ever". Now I have to live by those words.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

I read this yesterday and I couldn't come up with words.

I have heard how common the problem is and that there are many folks out there with lots of experience making this repair.

I hope it goes well for you.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2012)

I used two part epoxy on one of mine. Identical break.
Been holding three years now, full tension. I'd say do
it yourself. It'll bond you closer to it as well. 
'battle scars' make the guitar. IMO.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

During my first band rehearsal with my first ever Gibson guitar, my strap slipped off the button and the headstock went crashing down on the concrete floor. I got off lucky with a chip out of the headstock and the next day I went and purchased locking strap buttons.

Sorry to hear about your guitar. Hope you get it sorted out.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

hardasmum said:


> During my first band rehearsal with my first ever Gibson guitar, my strap slipped off the button and the headstock went crashing down on the concrete floor. I got off lucky with a chip out of the headstock and the next day I went and purchased locking strap buttons.
> 
> Sorry to hear about your guitar. Hope you get it sorted out.


I've seen a number of headstock lops but I've only seen 2 Gibsons, other than my own, actually go over. One was a straight forward crash on the floor off the stand and the other was a loose strap like yours. I wonder how hard and expensive it would be to manufacture with a couple of steel dowels inserted between the headstock and neck to reinforce it and perhaps prevent a few of these accidents. It seems to be a historic weakness/flaw in the design of the Gibson style headstock.


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## NGroeneveld (Jan 23, 2011)

bluzfish said:


> I've seen a number of headstock lops but I've only seen 2 Gibsons, other than my own, actually go over. One was a straight forward crash on the floor off the stand and the other was a loose strap like yours. I wonder how hard and expensive it would be to manufacture with a couple of steel dowels inserted between the headstock and neck to reinforce it and perhaps prevent a few of these accidents. It seems to be a historic weakness/flaw in the design of the Gibson style headstock.


lol - some guys send out their guitars for neck resets to get rid of 'the tone robbing rubber glue'. While steel reinforcement rods may be a good idea, somehow I don't think it will go over too well...

Carbon fiber strips would be the way to go if it was going to be done though. Some boutique builders use it to make their necks more stable and stiffer (to resist twisting).


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

NGroeneveld said:


> Carbon fiber strips would be the way to go if it was going to be done though. Some boutique builders use it to make their necks more stable and stiffer (to resist twisting).


The EVH Wolfgangs have graphite rods in their necks, both in the bolt-on models, and the LP-stlye customs. Chip Ellis even said this would help prevent the usual Gibson-style headstock injury.

I suspect some well-placed wood could make a very strong repair.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Who did the repair in the picture? I like it.

I contacted Gibson Custom Shop to inquire what they would charge for a repair and they recommended replacing the neck for $2000. While this is expensive, I am ruling out nothing at this point but it does seem to be the most extreme complete restoration choice. On the low end, I could fix it myself, but I need peace of mind and confidence that my guitar is not going to fall apart again in the future. I think I need something in between.

Here are some more pix...

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Rollin Hand said:


> The EVH Wolfgangs have graphite rods in their necks, both in the bolt-on models, and the LP-stlye customs. Chip Ellis even said this would help prevent the usual Gibson-style headstock injury.
> 
> I suspect some well-placed wood could make a very strong repair.


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## Soultone (Jan 3, 2011)

A friend of mine had his ES-335 in the case, the case fell over and the headstock broke. The repair was a little less than $200 and it doesn't look bad. Apparently for a little more money it could have been made invisible.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Wood is an amazing material. If the broken pieces fit together reasonably well and using the proper glue and good clamping procedures. You could achieve good results for a small amount of money. Since the headstock is a dark solid colour, painting it again after filling the patched holes after your repair would achieve good visible results. The back would be a little harder to conceal. The guitar will always be known for it's repaired neck but it should play just as well as it did before the incident and that is whats important. I don't mean to make light of what happened as it is a terrible thing to happen to anyone but we all know "Sh?? Happens"


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Sorry about this bluzfish. Hope you can get it repaired soon.

This makes my tummy fell bad...real bad!


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Dave


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Exactly. Done is done, now I just have to deal with it. The gut cramps have subsided for the most part. I just want the best repair possible so I can still play it when I'm 100 years old. If there is still visible damage after the repair, it will be a good reminder of how valuable this guitar is to me and to be careful with it.



Guitar101 said:


> Wood is an amazing material. If the broken pieces fit together reasonably well and using the proper glue and good clamping procedures. You could achieve good results for a small amount of money. Since the headstock is a dark solid colour, painting it again after filling the patched holes after your repair would achieve good visible results. The back would be a little harder to conceal. The guitar will always be known for it's repaired neck but it should play just as well as it did before the incident and that is whats important. I don't mean to make light of what happened as it is a terrible thing to happen to anyone but we all know "Sh?? Happens"


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## NGroeneveld (Jan 23, 2011)

I'm just looking at those .jpgs and the real tough part on that will be getting all those chips back in place in such a way that it won't be too noticeable.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

loudtubeamps said:


> That's a big drag. I've seen it all to often on Gibbys.
> Some light reading to distract you from your sore neck.
> Guitar Repair Las Vegas, Broken Gibson Guitars - Poorly Designed and Overpriced
> 
> ...


 Bumpin' this one from page 1. The second link is a very good source for a very good repair.
Not rocket science and any good repair tech. should be able to handle this fix.
One post mentioned epoxy.Although a great adhesive, I would not recommend using it to perform a repair of this type. 
Weldbond is a very good product ,suitable for the task at hand..
Cheers, d


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## NGroeneveld (Jan 23, 2011)

loudtubeamps said:


> Bumpin' this one from page 1. The second link is a very good source for a very good repair.
> Not rocket science and any good repair tech. should be able to handle this fix.
> One post mentioned epoxy.Although a great adhesive, I would not recommend using it to perform a repair of this type.
> Weldbond is a very good product ,suitable for the task at hand..
> Cheers, d


Thanks for those links, very informative. Sunbursting that headstock was a good idea.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

GC members are the best.

As you may suspect, I have been doing a LOT of research and queries into the best solution for my guitar's repair. The commonality of the problem and repair have been truly legendary for as long as Gibson has been making guitars. But that ES 330 is such a find for me, I can say without a doubt that for my playing style, it is has the perfect tone and playability.

With Gibson Custom Shop trying to divert me to a $2000 neck replacement rather than headstock repair kind of tells me they don't want to admit the inherent weakness in the neck design. I think I would like to go the volute route if I can find someone skilled at that. I (probably without foundation) worry about the stress riser created by the abrupt change in density of materials. It's clear the neck will never break again at the same point if repaired properly. I remember a story my old shop teacher about repairing a broken oar as good as new when repaired with good wood glue. But any shock waves starting at the end of the headstock will be amplified from not being able to dissipate evenly down the neck. Shoot me. I'm a worrywart!

So, OK - here's a hairbrained plan I am contemplating. There is only one more of these 330s in retail existance as far as I can find and I may bite the bullet and buy it as insurance and a performance instument, and keep and repair the one I have as a working grunt. I would like to do the repair cheaply locally and perhaps do the fine finishing work myself. I would do the reglue myself too but I would like to see a skilled luthier do the repair at least once before I consider myself prepared to do it.

Can I afford to do this? No. But I do have the money at the moment to do it and if I were to go this option, it would have to be done now while there is one available.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

bluzfish said:


> With Gibson Custom Shop trying to divert me to a $2000 neck replacement rather than headstock repair kind of tells me they don't want to admit the inherent weakness in the neck design.


Do you have any idea what's involved with the Gibson Custom Shop doing this neck replacement? New necks are are not that expensive so I'm wondering whats involved to replace it with a new one. Possibly, a local luthier can do the same repair for a lot less money. Just a thought.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

bluzfish said:


> Who did the repair in the picture? I like it.


No idea -- I just did a search online and found one like I saw during a MuchMusic interview with Michael Schenker. His V had the same type of repair, and he said his guitars generally came back from the shop better than when they went in.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

True, but the neck is one of those "historically accurate" ones hand made at the Gibson Custom Shop, so it might be difficult to reproduce. It was the cost quoted that started me thinking $2000 + shipping, insurance, etc. would buy me the last guitar like mine available. I could still buy one with a different finish or Bigsby down the road, as there are quite a few more of those made, so maybe my thinking is a bit skewed from bonding with the one I have. Good idea though Guit. Thanks for your input!


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

Any excuse to buy a new guitar is alright by me. Buy a new 330, enjoy it, fix up the other 330 and play the heck out of it at gigs with no worries.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Will you marry me?


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

You could buy a new guitar and sell your repaired headstock guitar? You'd take a hit but at least you could sleep knowing your guitar was pristine.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

That would be another good option for me to consider. Not the funnest one, but practical. Thanks.


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## chimo (Mar 29, 2006)

Thought I'd pass this on. I apprentice with a luthier here in PEI, he recently documented a headstock break on his website... http://www.amjguitars.com/gallery-2.html
probably a similar (but less involved) fix.


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## Guitarcheologist (May 23, 2009)

Hello Bluzfish, If you send some pictures ,I will do my best to walk you through play-by-play ... the options you have ... to restore your guitar to perfection. These type of breaks are all too common on the Gibson guitars.
BTW: The overlay on the face of the headstock ( that you refer to as thick paint ) .. is actually a black fiber . This is the trickiest part of the restoration. I generally resurface the face with a solid 5/64" ebony veneer. This adds structural integrity and looks beautiful when executed precisely. I've been doing this type of restoration for decades. When done properly; the guitar headstock will be considerably stronger than the day it was made AND is oftentimes completely undetectable. Very best regards ... I sympathize with your feeling of loss. Anything I can do to help you to make a thoroughly in formed decision ( whether you send it my way or not ) ... I'll be happy to clarify.
Respectfully ..... MMcC


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

chimo said:


> Thought I'd pass this on. I apprentice with a luthier here in PEI, he recently documented a headstock break on his website... http://www.amjguitars.com/gallery-2.html
> probably a similar (but less involved) fix.


Nice work!


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Thanks for your input Guitarcheologist. I had the repair done crudely at L&M because I didn't know any luthiers in Edmonton at the time:















And I did buy another one which I will be selling pristine from the factory (the repaired one on the left is okay for my use). I only bring the new one out of it's case once a month or so to inspect and play it a little.









Again, thank you for replying to my post. I will keep you in mind should I need other guitar work.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

laristotle said:


> I used two part epoxy on one of mine. Identical break.
> Been holding three years now, full tension. I'd say do
> it yourself. It'll bond you closer to it as well.
> 'battle scars' make the guitar. IMO.


I totally agree with this. With many of the glues on the market today, the repair IS actually stronger than it was before. There is lots of 
information and some videos on the web to help you along.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I understand the sick feeling a broken headstock gives you.

I had it happen to my classical.
Fortunately it was a simple repair as I had all the pieces, except some of the headstock veneer.

A friend of mine who had done a fair amount of work on his own guitars offered to fix it for free, and he did a great job.
We haven't kept in touch in recent years though.

It's stronger now than it was, and I can still play it.

So I know the pain and the joy of the broken headstock & repair.

Hopefully yours goes well.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Also feel your pain. Had an Ovation acoustic a long time ago that my buddy dropped and snapped the neck on it. I took it to the only guy in Ottawa i knew back then to repair it and it came out perfectly.
What sucks, is that the value of the guitar went southbound. I dont think you have to worry about that as you will be keeping and enjoying yours for a while.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

ouch.

Sorry dude.

Fortunately it happens so often the repair methods are well developed.


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## Rudder Bug (Nov 21, 2011)

I can't believe someone took your money for such a lousy repair job. I am sorry for you. If I had been in your area, I would have try to hide the repair with some automotive putty, along with a dark burgundy airbrushed sunburst, fading into a translucid cherry red . A touch of Shellac on it, some wet sanding with 2500 grit at the end, and bingo. 

I have a guy who needs that kind of job on his Hamer. When he shows up, I will document the whole thing. It is a challenge I can't wait for, trust me. 

Here are the photos he sent. They're blurried but it gives a good idea.


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2013)

laristotle said:


> I used two part epoxy on one of mine. Identical break.
> Been holding three years now, full tension. I'd say do
> it yourself. It'll bond you closer to it as well.
> 'battle scars' make the guitar. IMO.


Not pretty, but, 4 years and still strong.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

I find it hard to understand why there are so few people who can do this work properly, especially the most important part which is reconstructing the finish so it doesn't show. That work pictured above by L&M is very unsightly and judging by how everything sits I'd question the strength of the repair.

Laristotle's guitar on the other hand looks like the glue up was done very well but it needs the finish fixed, it would be a pretty easy one all things considered.


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2013)

I should have kept the sanding dust to mix with
glue and fill in the crack line. Hindsight, eh!?


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Jimmy_D said:


> I find it hard to understand why there are so few people who can do this work properly...


I find that few people want to pay for a full restorative headstock repair... heck, many don't want to pay for a solely functional (non aesthetic) repair... so they end up going the DIY route with poor execution and using the wrong glue.


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## Guitarcheologist (May 23, 2009)

Any pics ? This is an all too common tragedy for Gibson Headstocks. I'll be happy to advise you if you post a few pics. I've just walked a dozen Luthiers / Guitar Tech's through this whole procedure. Warren's Music in Wetaskiwin is setup for doing this job. If you are anywhere near ... give him a call ... he's a good guy.




bluzfish said:


> Well, nearly the worst thing that could happen happened - I knocked over my brand new and much beloved ES 330 VOS and snapped off the headstock. It's a clean break but I could only find some of the chips of thick finish from the front of the headstock.
> 
> I won't go on what a tragedy this is for me and I know it will be an expensive repair, done professionally, so I may have to wait for a while to reglue it. Another thought is to trasfer the wonderful electronics to my Epiphone Casino until I can afford the repair. That will cost a few bucks too, as I don't have the tools to mount the controls.
> 
> ...


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Guitarcheologist said:


> Any pics ? This is an all too common tragedy for Gibson Headstocks. I'll be happy to advise you if you post a few pics. I've just walked a dozen Luthiers / Guitar Tech's through this whole procedure. Warren's Music in Wetaskiwin is setup for doing this job. If you are anywhere near ... give him a call ... he's a good guy.


Thanks for your helpful advise - I really do appreciate it. I've been using the guitar extensively. The more I play it, the more I've bonded with it to the point that I have to make a conscious decision to play my other guitars.

I guess with the repair already done (crudely) at L&M, it's too late to put in the volutes and do a proper refinish. But the guitar does play just fine. The two pieces are slightly 'off' at the glue joint, but the angle looks good.

I've put a few pix up previously, but here are some more detailed ones:

View attachment 8173
View attachment 8173

_*Dang, I can't upload pix any more. Since the forum crash, I could only use the basic uploader one file at a time. Now it doesn't work at all - in Firefox or Internet Explorer. Not even copy and paste. I'll try to fix the problem and post pictures later. Grrr.*_


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## Guitarcheologist (May 23, 2009)

Warren's Music Wetaskiwin ... he's setup for pretty week anything. A good guy too!


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## Spikezone (Feb 2, 2006)

I broke my 75 LP Standard many years ago at a band practice. I actually cried in front of my band mates, so I know how you feel. In no time I decided to reglue it myself (the break was like many of yours-broken headstock barely held together by the veneer on the headstock). My repair wasn't pretty, but it held. Funny thing was that after a few years, I actually convinced myself that my repair was coming undone (in retrospect I doubt that was even true), so I took it to a proper luthier, who rebroke it and repaired and finished it properly. That was a few years later, but many years ago from now, and it holds together and works great to this day.
-Mikey


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Yeah, it seemed like a disaster at the time to see my baby snapped in two, but now, even with the crude repair, I don't worry about it. Swervin55 took a quick look at it at the Edmonton guitar show and said it would be fine and I've come to respect his expertise. I didn't really know of his experience at the time or I would have had him do a more professional job than L&M did. But as I say, I'm not going to worry about the guitar's integrity any more. It plays and sounds fantastic.


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