# Duplicolor Clear Coat. WTF Just Happened??!!



## WhiskyJack1977

Welp. What did i do wrong now? 

the details: 

1 - 3 coats Duplicolor Grey Primer
2 - Scuffed back and "level sanded" (It wasn't as level as it could be, i didn't grain fil or seal i sort of wanted what little piddly wood grain the basswood had to offer to play with the sparkle of the blue it worked.. until now) 
2 - 2 more coats of primer
3 - Sand back primer. 
4 - 5 coats Duplicolor Light Blue to BS in Some Pelham Blue Vibe. 
5 - Let dry 3 days
6 - 7 Coats of Duplicolor Clear Coat 
7 - Let dry 3 days
8 - Denibbed and level sanded (600 grit) out the orange peel
9 - 1 coat of duplicolor Clear Coat.
10 - All hell breaks loose. 

A: What the hell happened? 
B: Is my assertion that i now have to wait till this dries, sand back to bare wood and start the whole thing over ? correct? I don't really see any other fix for this unsightly mess. 



















This is what it looked like at the end of my Step 8. I legit do not know what happened. Maybe i should have left it longer to dry and cure? Maybe i should have just left it as is? I'm guessing maybe i don't go back over it in multiple sessions to build up the clear coat? 










Anybody? 

Needless to say i am thoroughly disappointed. This is my first kick at the can at something like this i thought i was very well researched and what not but it is apparent between this and few other little pit falls here that i was foolish to think i'd hit a home run the first time. Shame on me.


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## jayoldschool

Why step 9? You could have just gone 1000 1200 1500 compound polish.

I know that doesn't help answer your question. Sorry.


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## tomee2

Wish I could help, but I've been doing a tele body this summer as well. Many many coats, and it's still not right and now its chipping off too easily.... 

Anyway. I'd say maybe it went on too thick. Or there was a contaminant on the guitar, oil or something.

Wait a few days, sand again, retry the clear??


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## lightman

looks like your last coat reacted with the previous coat, I think that clear has to dry for at least 7 -to 10 days before a recoat as it is still out gassing and start off with really light coats.
As far as clear coats go I dont like duplicolor clear, its a finicky paint and it yellows and it's soft. I use spray max y2k automotive catalyst paint in a spray can you get it from nappa. You have to use a mask with the proper filters when spraying that paint as it is very toxic but It's as hard as nails and crystal clear. You can spray it over duplicolor touch up paint


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## Grainslayer

lightman said:


> looks like your last coat reacted with the previous coat, I think that clear has to dry for at least 7 -to 10 days before a recoat as it is still out gassing and start off with really light coats.
> As far as clear coats go I dont like duplicolor clear, its a finicky paint and it yellows and it's soft. I use spray max y2k automotive catalyst paint in a spray can you get it from nappa. You have to use a mask with the proper filters when spraying that paint as it is very toxic but It's as hard as nails and crystal clear. You can spray it over duplicolor touch up paint


I think you nailed it..The 7 coats of clear seem excessive and most likely wasn’t fully cured.I would have done 2 or 3 coats,let dry,sand and re apply.


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## skeetz

I think it looks awesome and unique!


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## skeetz

Once you add the pickguard, I think that you may agree.


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## Grainslayer

Krackle finish.lol


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## WhiskyJack1977

jayoldschool said:


> Why step 9? You could have just gone 1000 1200 1500 compound polish.
> 
> I know that doesn't help answer your question. Sorry.


All good. Valid comment. I kept going with Step 9 so i can keep building up the clear for a bit more depth. Possibly lofty goals? The back side of this is similar, it's a really dark blackish tint with a nice build up of satin watco lacquer on top of it. I did it similarly to the top but much more slowly as per the instructions on the can. the back and sides got 4 light coats of watco to start , sanded back flat, 3 more coats, sand back flat , then 3 more again, sand back and then one last coat. I did it that way because of the satin aspect. I wasn't going to be polishing or buffing. The flatter the better for the one last final coat. I didn't run into any issues like with the duplicolor here save for a few crummy runs with the watco that were sort of an easy fix. 

I went with duplicolor clear for the top because of the duplicolor paint that was under it. I don't think i could have put the watco on top of the duplicolor paint? I just kept it as simple as possible. 



lightman said:


> looks like your last coat reacted with the previous coat, I think that clear has to dry for at least 7 -to 10 days before a recoat as it is still out gassing and start off with really light coats.
> As far as clear coats go I dont like duplicolor clear, its a finicky paint and it yellows and it's soft. I use spray max y2k automotive catalyst paint in a spray can you get it from nappa. You have to use a mask with the proper filters when spraying that paint as it is very toxic but It's as hard as nails and crystal clear. You can spray it over duplicolor touch up paint


Cheers. As other have said and a few others else where i may have over did it with the first 7 for a quick build. I should have let it dry more i guess. It could have still been doing it's chemistry in that spot maybe. But i just think it is so weird it is isolated to that spot. The rest looks so good 

Thanks for the product tip as well. If it do have to go back to bare wood i will keep that in mind and check out napa!! 




skeetz said:


> Once you add the pickguard, I think that you may agree.


Not even lying that thought crossed my mind after i walked away and forgot about it for a while. We'll see how i feel in the morning. HAHA. thanks for your optimism. Much needed.


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## tomee2

You mention watco then duplicolor. I think duplicolor is acrylic lacquer. Is the Watco enamel or a lacquer as well?
Was it Watco clear then duplicolor clear on that?


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## WhiskyJack1977

tomee2 said:


> You mention watco then duplicolor. I think duplicolor is acrylic lacquer. Is the Watco enamel or a lacquer as well?
> Was it Watco clear then duplicolor clear on that?


Sorry. The watco has only been applied to the back amd the sides of this project. That area is fully masked off currently. I had the top sode masked off when i did that leg of the journey. The top was also bare wood when it was maksed off and was sanded. So no in theory there has been no cross contamination betweem the watco and duplicolor. That im aware of. Cant be sure in my garage. Whos to say some watco sanding residue didnt fimd its way onto the surface before i sprayed some of the clear coat?! But i am pretty sure i vac'd all that up weeks ago. 🤷‍♂️


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## nnieman

WhiskyJack1977 said:


> All good. Valid comment. I kept going with Step 9 so i can keep building up the clear for a bit more depth. Possibly lofty goals? The back side of this is similar, it's a really dark blackish tint with a nice build up of satin watco lacquer on top of it. I did it similarly to the top but much more slowly as per the instructions on the can. the back and sides got 4 light coats of watco to start , sanded back flat, 3 more coats, sand back flat , then 3 more again, sand back and then one last coat. I did it that way because of the satin aspect. I wasn't going to be polishing or buffing. The flatter the better for the one last final coat. I didn't run into any issues like with the duplicolor here save for a few crummy runs with the watco that were sort of an easy fix.
> 
> I went with duplicolor clear for the top because of the duplicolor paint that was under it. I don't think i could have put the watco on top of the duplicolor paint? I just kept it as simple as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers. As other have said and a few others else where i may have over did it with the first 7 for a quick build. I should have let it dry more i guess. It could have still been doing it's chemistry in that spot maybe. But i just think it is so weird it is isolated to that spot. The rest looks so good
> 
> Thanks for the product tip as well. If it do have to go back to bare wood i will keep that in mind and check out napa!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not even lying that thought crossed my mind after i walked away and forgot about it for a while. We'll see how i feel in the morning. HAHA. thanks for your optimism. Much needed.


I think you are putting it on too thick too fast.
You can use watco over duplicolor.
The duplicolor needs to be dry (30 days ish).

I have never used the duplicolor clear I always use watco for my clear coats.
Watco from Home Depot is nitrocellulose lacquer.

Nathan


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## laristotle

TECHNICAL DATA
_SPRAYS-Shake can vigorously for 2 minutes before use. Spray light coats 8 to 12 inches from the surface to avoid runs and sags. Allow the finish to dry 2 hours and then recoat. Recoat only when the previous coat has dried clear and feels hard. Several light coats result with a better finish than one heavy coat. If any coat has dried more than 6 hours, lightly sand with 220 grit sandpaper before recoating. Apply additional coats following directions above.A minimum of 3 coats is recommended.Allow finish to dry 24 hours before light use. Allow 7 days before subjecting the surface to normal usage _


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## mhammer

I'll start by saying that the part that looks good looks REALLY nice. Damn shame about the wrinkly parts.
I've had similar sorts of results when painting pedal enclosures. Sometimes the biggest asset and secret in applying a finish is simply patience. You want to see a consistent colour across the surface, but covering_ everything_ results in a thicker layer than if you had applied multiple very light coats and waited long enough between them.

I'm not scolding. It's just one of the traps one can easily fall into when applying a finish. I've had to strip the wrinkled paint off the box and repaint more times than I care to think about. But you know, when the first bot of the first coat suggests just how fabulous it's gonna look when ALL the coats are on, it's kinda hard to be as patient as required, eh? Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, worn it out, and used it to wash the car.


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## WhiskyJack1977

nnieman said:


> I think you are putting it on too thick too fast.
> You can use watco over duplicolor.
> The duplicolor needs to be dry (30 days ish).
> 
> I have never used the duplicolor clear I always use watco for my clear coats.
> Watco from Home Depot is nitrocellulose lacquer.
> 
> Nathan


Very good to know. Perhaps i'll just shelf this project for a bit and maybe go back to some watco product. 



laristotle said:


> TECHNICAL DATA
> _SPRAYS-Shake can vigorously for 2 minutes before use. Spray light coats 8 to 12 inches from the surface to avoid runs and sags. Allow the finish to dry 2 hours and then recoat. Recoat only when the previous coat has dried clear and feels hard. Several light coats result with a better finish than one heavy coat. If any coat has dried more than 6 hours, lightly sand with 220 grit sandpaper before recoating. Apply additional coats following directions above.A minimum of 3 coats is recommended.Allow finish to dry 24 hours before light use. Allow 7 days before subjecting the surface to normal usage _


That is for the Watco yes. Which i had applied to the back and the sides of this body, which were left to cure for two weeks prior to my masking it off to start painting the top with the duplicolor. The Watco was really nice. The only rule from those specs i did not follow was the sanding with 220 grit. I used 320 to rough level sand and prepare the surface the next day. 

Cheers. 



mhammer said:


> I'll start by saying that the part that looks good looks REALLY nice. Damn shame about the wrinkly parts.
> I've had similar sorts of results when painting pedal enclosures. Sometimes the biggest asset and secret in applying a finish is simply patience. You want to see a consistent colour across the surface, but covering_ everything_ results in a thicker layer than if you had applied multiple very light coats and waited long enough between them.
> 
> I'm not scolding. It's just one of the traps one can easily fall into when applying a finish. I've had to strip the wrinkled paint off the box and repaint more times than I care to think about. But you know, when the first bot of the first coat suggests just how fabulous it's gonna look when ALL the coats are on, it's kinda hard to be as patient as required, eh? Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, worn it out, and used it to wash the car.


thanks. the good part does look good. Cheers ! I am pleased with that. I think i was just getting too excited seeing it come together better than i had anticpated and ot a bit rammy i guess. I think i should have let it set for more than three days. 

After sleeping on it last night i think i am just going to let it sit for a couple weeks and then see if i can't sand it out with out going all the way back to the base color. I suspect thatwil be unlikely, but at this point I've got nothing to lose. Absolutely worst case i just go back to square one. 

Thanks Everybody.


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## CathodeRay

What's the temperature where you're drying / outgassing?
Low temperature may have contributed to the problem and may get worse as October sets in.


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## WhiskyJack1977

skeetz said:


> Once you add the pickguard, I think that you may agree.


I think you were right my good sir. This may very well be a livable mistake.  This guitar will be a lifer for me as it is my first, so i guess i could care less about what lurks beneath.

I can always refinish it down the road if i feel so inclined. I think my plan for now is to give it a good chunk of time to cure, and just live with it. I may also look into some deep scratch repair possibilities just to tidy up what the pick guard leaves exposed.Maybe. 

Thanks for planting that seed before i went crazy with a sander!!!


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## Bohred

Is this link below the Watco Spray lacquer referred to in this thread? I searched Home Depot canada online and only found cans.

Rona comes up with this spray for ~$14.








Clear Lacquer Spray Varnish


This lacquer is specially formulated with Quick-dry formula. No sanding between coats.




www.rona.ca





Clear Lacquer Spray Varnish
(Watco)
This lacquer is specially formulated with Quick-dry formula. No sanding between coats.

Also is there a recommended process to clean the sprayer tip of these watco lacquer cans and also the Duplicolor acrylic cans? (just soak them in solvent?)


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## laristotle

Bohred said:


> Also is there a recommended process to clean the sprayer tip of these watco lacquer cans and also the Duplicolor acrylic cans? (just soak them in solvent?)


All sprays;
When done spraying, turn the can upside and spray. This clears the pathway of the contents.


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## player99

I used to do airbrushing. When I was using harsh automotive clear over a mural that would be adversely affected by the clearcoat solvents, a trick was to give it a really super light coat, just a dusting. Let that flash off, then another light coat, let dry etc. Until I would build up enough clear to protect the artwork, like a protective barrier. Then I could give it a number of light but regular coatings. Otherwise the original mural would wrinkle up like that guitar.


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## TwystydThunder

A very interesting conundrum... I've never seen this before.... however, do count me among the ones who thought it looked cool lol.


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## WhiskyJack1977

Bohred said:


> Is this link below the Watco Spray lacquer referred to in this thread? I searched Home Depot canada online and only found cans.
> 
> Rona comes up with this spray for ~$14.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clear Lacquer Spray Varnish
> 
> 
> This lacquer is specially formulated with Quick-dry formula. No sanding between coats.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.rona.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clear Lacquer Spray Varnish
> (Watco)
> This lacquer is specially formulated with Quick-dry formula. No sanding between coats.
> 
> Also is there a recommended process to clean the sprayer tip of these watco lacquer cans and also the Duplicolor acrylic cans? (just soak them in solvent?)


Sorry for the late reply, i hadn't been getting any notifications. yes i believe that is what folks are discussing. And i did in fact use that product on the back of this guitar in particular. Except i used the satin watco. I have pictures of that i'll have to post them up. 

It says you don't have to sand in between coats but if you are as inexperienced as me i would really suggest considering / be prepared to sand back every few coats. I still had some orange peel and some runs that needed sanding, It looks ok now.

good luck!!! 



TwystydThunder said:


> A very interesting conundrum... I've never seen this before.... however, do count me among the ones who thought it looked cool lol.


I am still letting it cure a bit more. I brought it in out of the garage and have been letting it cure in the basement bathroom and each week i'll go in and do a finger nail test on it and it still seems quite soft. not very hard or durable. I am giving it another two weeks and then i;ll make my mind up what i will do with it. 

Option 1: Sand it back a bit and i can lessen that alligator skin look around where the pick guard won't cover and see if i someone will let me use their garage to spray a few more coats of something else on there. The Watco Stuff would be ideal. 

Option 2: Say screw it and just buff and polish out what i have now and just play the damn thing.


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## NtR Studios

I can also recommend SprayMax 2k. I just did this one and another a couple of weeks ago. The color base was a spraymax aerosol water based custom mix. Napa charged about 50$ for a can, and it did 3 coats. about 10 minutes between coats, no sanding. Then the Spraymax clear 2k. about $30 dollars a can. I got 4 coats out of that, about 15 minutes between coats. Hard as a rock. I still need to level sand but I am very happy with the result so far, considering no equipment needed.


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## Milkman

WhiskyJack1977 said:


> Welp. What did i do wrong now?
> 
> the details:
> 
> 1 - 3 coats Duplicolor Grey Primer
> 2 - Scuffed back and "level sanded" (It wasn't as level as it could be, i didn't grain fil or seal i sort of wanted what little piddly wood grain the basswood had to offer to play with the sparkle of the blue it worked.. until now)
> 2 - 2 more coats of primer
> 3 - Sand back primer.
> 4 - 5 coats Duplicolor Light Blue to BS in Some Pelham Blue Vibe.
> 5 - Let dry 3 days
> 6 - 7 Coats of Duplicolor Clear Coat
> 7 - Let dry 3 days
> 8 - Denibbed and level sanded (600 grit) out the orange peel
> 9 - 1 coat of duplicolor Clear Coat.
> 10 - All hell breaks loose.
> 
> A: What the hell happened?
> B: Is my assertion that i now have to wait till this dries, sand back to bare wood and start the whole thing over ? correct? I don't really see any other fix for this unsightly mess.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what it looked like at the end of my Step 8. I legit do not know what happened. Maybe i should have left it longer to dry and cure? Maybe i should have just left it as is? I'm guessing maybe i don't go back over it in multiple sessions to build up the clear coat?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody?
> 
> Needless to say i am thoroughly disappointed. This is my first kick at the can at something like this i thought i was very well researched and what not but it is apparent between this and few other little pit falls here that i was foolish to think i'd hit a home run the first time. Shame on me.


I'm sorry to make light of your misfortune, but people would pay a premium for a finish like that.

It actually looks quite cool, not what you were going for, but cool nonetheless.


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## knight_yyz

Paint has a dry time and a cure time. Dry time means you can touch it but can't use it. cure time is how long it takes the paint to fully cure so you can touch it. What is the cure time of the paint? 3 days may not be long enough. Krylon Plastic dries to the touch in 20 minutes but takes 1 week to cure!!


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## gtrguy

NtR Studios said:


> View attachment 336992



Rockin' the Reb! Nice...


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## Milkman

NtR Studios said:


> I can also recommend SprayMax 2k. I just did this one and another a couple of weeks ago. The color base was a spraymax aerosol water based custom mix. Napa charged about 50$ for a can, and it did 3 coats. about 10 minutes between coats, no sanding. Then the Spraymax clear 2k. about $30 dollars a can. I got 4 coats out of that, about 15 minutes between coats. Hard as a rock. I still need to level sand but I am very happy with the result so far, considering no equipment needed.
> 
> View attachment 336992
> View attachment 336992


Is that the 50s or 60s neck profile. Looks a bit skinny to me.

Kidding, nice work.


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## NtR Studios

gtrguy said:


> Rockin' the Reb! Nice...


I actually modified a jackson dinky for this. Its cool but I'd love to have the read deal.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


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## gtrguy

NtR Studios said:


> I actually modified a jackson dinky for this. Its cool but I'd love to have the read deal.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


Ah, thought it might have been one of those eBay bodies I see sometimes. I had a RBM2 in the early 90's- Candy Apple Red with gold hardware. Great non-wizard neck shape and the mahogany body made for a great sounding guitar but it was just too flashy for my tastes.


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## NtR Studios

gtrguy said:


> Ah, thought it might have been one of those eBay bodies I see sometimes. I had a RBM2 in the early 90's- Candy Apple Red with gold hardware. Great non-wizard neck shape and the mahogany body made for a great sounding guitar but it was just too flashy for my tastes.


I like the flash on that one. Stands out from the rest.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk


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## WhiskyJack1977

Ok Just an update on this for anyone who may care or might be interested. I finished this.... finally 🤣

I managed to salvage this hackjob. Luckily for me my generous applications of the Dupli color clear paid off as i had enough stock that i could sand out the alligator skin effect entirely and still have enough to finish it out to a respectable mirror shine. The clear doesn't have near the depth that i was going for, but whatever, i got a guitar out of it in the end.



















With out the clear coat i was sort of bummed out that this basswood had a grain to it and it did things with the metallic paint and the light that i thought was kind of crummy, but once i got the clear coat dressed up it it really looks quite cool. really glad i didn't sand it out and fill the grain and take out the bumps!










And the money shots... sort of, i am not a great photographer but you get the idea.


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## greco

Impressive pic of a great looking guitar. 
CONGRATS and ENJOY!


http://imgur.com/1CEf92E


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## Bohred

Looks great!


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## Jim Wellington

Nice work!

Love the blue!


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## THRobinson

I used duolicolour for side mirrors on my car... So basically what the paint was meant for. After a year it went like this for some reason... Was fine, but 8-12 months later looked like a dried out orange rind. I've not touched the clear coat stuff since then worried it'll happen again.


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## Pruscilla

lightman said:


> looks like your last coat reacted with the previous coat, I think that clear has to dry for at least 7 -to 10 days before a recoat as it is still out gassing and start off with really light coats.
> As far as clear coats go I dont like duplicolor clear, its a finicky paint and it yellows and it's soft. I use spray max y2k automotive catalyst paint in a spray can you get it from nappa. You have to use a mask with the proper filters when spraying that paint as it is very toxic but It's as hard as nails and crystal clear. You can spray it over duplicolor touch up paint


So what happens because I had the same problem you need to use tack raggs and the wax remover and grease and contaminit remover, before any sanding is done and this won't happen.


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## nnieman

That looks good!!

Metallic paints are really unforgiving....the last time I did a metallic blue I stripped and redid it 3 or 4 times before I was happy with it.

Nathan


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## Chito

Good job on fixing the issue. It looks great! Congrats!


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