# Is the Cioks DC-10 a Pedal Power 2 killer?



## zurn

This new power supply really looks good to me, my pedal train 2 has 10 pedals on it so I might upgrade. It's priced the same as a PP2+, has anyone tried one?

Check out the specs!

Cioks - POWER SUPPLIES FOR EFFECT PEDALS

Features:

* 10 outlets configured in 8 isolated sections
* toroidal transformer with additional magnetic field shielding
* 3 powerful DC sections with 400mA each
* 15V option for Radial Tonebone pedals
* short circuit protection of all outlets
* advanced LED monitoring of each section
* temperature monitoring
* 115V/230V mains voltage selector switch
* 16 Flex cables included
* one Split Flex and two Stack Flex for both 18 and 24V pedals also included
* mounting kit for pedal boards included
* durable steel enclosure with 2mm thick top
* 5 years warranty period


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## GuitarsCanada

If the pricing is the same as the PP2 than it is certainly a major competitor.


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## joey_capps

As far as I can tell, there is only one North American retailer for CIOKS--guitareffectspedals.com. And, as this product is made in Denmark, it would be subject to duty on importation. Nevertheless, I plan to get one because it is the only third-party power supply that Eventide recommends and supports for the TimeFactor, PitchFactor, ModFactor, or Space stompboxes. 

That being said, I believe Eventide has contracted CIOKS to make their upcoming PowerFactor--which I believe is the DC-10 repackaged. So, it might be worth waiting until Eventide starts distributing them.


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## Presto1202

It seems like a good choice for a power supply. I thought about buying a CIOKS but I like my PP2+. I like the way the outlets can power funky pedals because I use a few and I like its low profile. Still, from what I read on another forum, You can only use one of each of outlets 7/8 and 9/10 so even though there are 10 outlets, you can only use 8 on the front like the PP2+. Has anyone found otherwise? 

The PP2+ also has an AC jack so I can power a couple odd pedals this way and I have no problem powering 10 pedals at a time with it. I'm pretty sure the CIOKS doesn't have an AC jack so I'd be limited to 8 pedals which I don't prefer. 

From what I understand the 7/8 outlets and the 9/10 outlets aren't isolated like the rest of the outlets are. 

Plus, the only places I've seen the CIOKS for sale here in the US are selling for more than the PP2+. If I'm going to spend more on a power supply to upgrade from my PP2+ I'd really like it to be able to power 10-12 pedals.

Maybe I'll just hold off and see if the Voodoo Versa ever comes out.


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## mhammer

Power supplies for pedalboards have undergone a number of changes; many of them in response to the nature of pedalboards, but pedals also.

More specifically, when the nature of the circuit was such that it _could_ be run off a 9v battery, pedal-makers designed around the assumption that it _would_ be. That meant that it assumed a 9v external supply, and not much current. So something like a 500ma wallwart with a daisy-chain cable would do ya just fine.

As things marched along, though, pedal-makers took the liberty of assuming that you would have an external supply, and so began designing things that were not predicated on using batteries, or even a 9v supply voltage. So we started to see things running off 12v, 15v, 18v and even 24vdc.

Then there is the legacy of digital pedals. Even though much of what goes on internally presumes a 5v supply (which is typical of digital circuits), they bring several issues into the spotlight. One is certainly their current demand, which is much higher than analog circuits. Where your average traditional analog Boss or boutique pedal will not consume more than 20ma (and often much lower), the typical digital pedal will want at least 75ma and often much more. Right away that imposes a requirement on any supply intended to power a pedalboard that it be capable of delivering more current. That's where you get your Godlyke and Visual Sound small-profile switching supplies. They can supply enough clean power for ltierally dozens of analog pedals, daisy-chained together. But when you have a couple of monster digital things on your pedalboard that might want 200ma each, the requirements on the supply up the ante.

The second challenge is heterodyning of clocks. heterodyning is essentially what happens in ring modulators, where you get the sum and difference of two frequencies modulating each other. Digital pedals produce clock noise on the power lines. Fortunately, it is at ultrasonic frequencies that none of us will hear. But what happens when one of them has a clock signal at 2.001mhz, and the other is at 1.9995mhz? After all the crystals in them that set the clock frequency are precise, but nothing can be _that_ precise. If those two pedals are sharing the same power line, it can result in an audible 6khz byproduct, and you _will_ hear that. This is why many folks will report that using one digital pedal with their supply works great, but using a second digital pedal is noisy. Often the first one will be installed on the pedal board, and when they install a newly acquired 2nd one, they attribute the noise to the 2nd pedal. It's not either - it's both.

This is why the move towards not just total current capability, but *isolated* outputs, where whatever one output is powering has negligible influence on any other. If you plug separate wallwarts into two digital pedals, and plug those wallwarts into the wall socket, they run clean and quiet, so obviously digital pedals CAN share a common power source (which is always...the wall AC), but you need to stick the right stuff between each sub-power-source to keep that clock noise out of the mix.

As a 3rd generation pedalboard supply, the CIOKS attends to all of these emerging issues. I thoroughly expect many of the existing units we are all familiar with to cease production and be replaced by models from the same companies that address these new and emerging issues. In the meantime, it looks like CIOKS is one of the first out of the gate.


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## hollowbody

This unit seems to have 2 things going for it that the PP2+ doesn't.

1) It seems thinner, though I haven't seen any other pics, so I can't really confirm that. Smaller is always better when it comes to pedalboard, though I will add that I may be concerned about the quality of the torroidial transformer inside if it's significantly slimmer

2) It comes with the 18v/24v cables stock. This is a major pain when you buy a PP2+ and then have to order these special cables. I don't know if they've corrected this recently, but when I got mine I had to buy separate cables to power my EHX DMM and my OCD.


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## david henman

zurn said:


> * 15v option for radial tonebone pedals



...i'm in!!!


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## zurn

Another thing going for it is the outputs with 400mA, I just bought a Strymon El Capistan and a TC Nova Modulator and they are power hogs, there has been reports by a lot of people having problems with the Strymon pedals on the PP2+. The pedals don't always power up or dont power up at all cause they need a little more than 250mA...I have two PP2+ so I don't really have any problems powering both pedals as I plug them seperately.

One down side to it though, they dont quite fit under the PT2 or PT Junior. It comes with mounthing brakets for "TOP" installation that can be used under the pedalboards but you need to elevate the PT2 with higher feet to have clearance.

Here's a discussion about it. Cioks are actually quite helpful on the TGP, they seem to have great service.



> Hello,
> I'm just working on a quide on how to mount our new CIOKS 10 power supplies beneath the Pedaltrain boards. Here's a short introduction:
> 
> Is there enough space?
> The first question is whether there is enough space to mount a CIOKS 10 power supply under a Pedaltrain board? Well, it depends on which model you’ve got or planning to get.
> 
> PT-PRO – no problem at all, there is plenty of space and height under this big pedal board.
> 
> PT-Junior, PT-1 and PT-2 (the new models with two holes in the back) – there is nearly enough space to mount a CIOKS 10 power supply below. You’ll have to replace at least two of the original feet with new higher ones. Depending on the dimensions of the new feet you get, you can replace just the two in the back or all four. You’ll avoid the board rocking on an uneven floor or stage and making scratches on the bottom of the power supply. New higher feet made of real rubber will also make your board more stable and make it stay in place, not sliding away from you when turning your pedals on and off. If you keep your Pedaltrain inside a flightcase when using it, you can just put or glue something below the back feet to lift the back part of the board approx. 5mm. In this way it’s not necessary to replace the original feet. Everything will just fit on a jysk kussehår and you’ll be the only one rocking.
> 
> PT-Junior, PT-1 and PT-2 (older models with no holes in the back) – the back part of these profiles is approx. 20mm lower compared to the new version with holes and you’ll have to rise the whole board ex. by replacing all four original feet with higher ones. Otherwise the whole board will tip on the power supply mounted below it.
> 
> A full step-by-step guide with pictures will soon be avaliable on the product pages of DC10, AC10 and TC10.
> 
> Best regards,
> Poul Ciok


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## mhammer

Well this brings up another thing. Often, the isolation of different outputs is accomplished by having separate regulators for each output. The cheapest and easiest way to do that is to use standard 3-pin regulators, like the traditional LM78L09. The standard 3-pin regulators have traditionally come in 2 flavours: 100ma capacity, and 1amp capacity. So grab a fistful of the 100ma ones (which look like a typical small TO-92 style bipolar transistor or FET), some 100uf and 10uf caps, a diode per output jack, and you're good to go. Those 9/100 outputs on the DC-10 are clearly of that variety.

Note that the rating is based on what the regulation circuit can successfully pass without producing "magic blue smoke". The higher current regulators are thicker, have a heat-sink tab, and so can pass more current and tolerate higher temperatures when doing so. The 100ma ones _can_ probably handle more than 100ma....they just can't do it for more than a a couple seconds before frying. So if one has any inkling that a pedal might draw precriously close to 100ma, then you step up to the next rating for an extra margin of reliability and assured product lifespan.

Supplying up to 100ma per output for, say, eight outputs, is not the same as being able to supply 800ma in whatever fashion you want to divide it up. Doing the latter would require one to step up to using 1A rated regulators, which is not a LOT more money for the regulators themselves, but requires a somewhat bigger chassis, and _that_ requires more money for packaging, shipping, etc. And, of course, as noted in an earlier post, simply providing a nicely regulated one-amp capability on one common output, is not the same as having multiple isolated outputs that do not result in any interaction or line noise transferred from pedal to pedal. The alternative is to use other types of regulation, such as discrete circuits that use multiple transistors, instead of a single-device circuit. This appears to be what CIOKS did.


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## zurn

It looks like Eventide are selling them now, they are available at L&M's!

http://www.long-mcquade.com/products/12253/Guitars/Guitar_Effects/Eventide/Power_Factor.htm


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## david henman

zurn said:


> It looks like Eventide are selling them now, they are available at L&M's!
> http://www.long-mcquade.com/products/12253/Guitars/Guitar_Effects/Eventide/Power_Factor.htm



...hmmm...how much can i get for my ppII?


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## zurn

david henman said:


> ...hmmm...how much can i get for my ppII?


I'm guessing 100-120$


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## david henman

...actually, it appears that the dc-10 can only power seven pedals...?


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