# What does a flanger pedal do??



## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

Well i have an idea what it does, but what i want this pedal to do is Dive bombs.. similar to what eddie does with the song Panama.

Will any Flanger do dive bombs? or are some better than others..I am thinking about buying a Boss BF-2 or other model.

Rick


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## Dude5152 (Oct 28, 2007)

Hey, Flanger pedals do not do proper dive bombs. To do a dive bomb you need a guitar with a Vibrato unit (preferably double locking). to do a dive bomb hit a note, like the open b string (this is what eddie does in panama) and push the whammy bar all the way down.:rockon2::rockon:


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Dive bombs? 

The only two ways to do a dive bomb is either with a whammy bar (trem bridge) or with the Digitech "Whammy" pedal.


A flanger is a time based effect that sounds to me like a phase shifter on steroids. Sort of a hard sound to describe but once you hear it you'll recognize it if you hear it again.

Listen to the effect at the beginning of "And the Cradle Will Rock".

That's a pretty good example of a flanger.


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## Dude5152 (Oct 28, 2007)

Milkman said:


> A flanger is a time based effect that sounds to me like a phase shifter on steroids. Sort of a hard sound to describe but once you hear it you'll recognize it if you hear it again.
> .


A flanger makes your guitar kinda sound like a jet.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*Flanger*

well thanks for clearing this up.. I had no idea. I have a whammy bar, on my fender, but cannot get that sound.. so maybe a pedal would be better.

Or i am just not doing it right.. what pickup u using.. I just thought eddie was using his MXL flanger pedal.

I will keep workin at it.

Thanks Rick


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## Dude5152 (Oct 28, 2007)

Eddie only had 1 p/u on his kramer baretta which he used for the recording of panama, the bridge p/u


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Rick31797 said:


> well thanks for clearing this up.. I had no idea. I have a whammy bar, on my fender, but cannot get that sound.. so maybe a pedal would be better.
> 
> Or i am just not doing it right.. what pickup u using.. I just thought eddie was using his MXL flanger pedal.
> 
> ...


Oh you can get a good dive bomb out of your Fender trem, as long as you don't mind stopping the song and retuning immediately afterwards.

Really you need a guitar equipped with a Floyd Rose to do a good dive bomb and Floyds can be difficult for newish players.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

When two copies of the same signal are staggered in time, such that one is slightly behind the other when it reaches your ears, a number of things can happen, depending on how big/long/wide the stagger is.

When the time gap is quite wide, we perceive discrete repeats or echoes. Reduce the time stagger, such that the repeats are not heard separately, and you start to get something people have referred to as "automatic double tracking". Reduce the time stagger even more, such that the gap between the two copies is 1/50 of a second or less, and what starts to happen is, where possible, the two copies start to add up with each other, and occasionally subtract from each other. The adding is a function of the *identical* sound being "bumped over" just a bit so that there are two identical copies that add up together - a bit like one person standing on another's shoulders. The subtracting occurs when the identical *negative* version of the sound (remember that the signal swings up and down) lines up with the positive version. 

This peaks-and-valleys part will not occur when the time gap between the two copies is longer simply because the guitar string tone changes from moment to moment. If only 10 thousandths of a second have passed, there is still a reasonable chance that the frequencies produced by the string *now* are very similar to those produced 10 milliseconds ago, and the lining up of positive and negative swings to produce additions and subtractions is still possible. Once the time gap starts to stretch out, the odds of what the string is doing now, compared to what it did a short while ago, are very drastically reduced.

The creation of the peaks and valleys is called "comb filtering", because the effect is very much like what you'd get if you had, say, a 100-band graphic equalizer, and boosted every other slider, while fully cutting the ones in between them. Opinions vary, but many experts will suggest that a great flanging sound requires a time sweep ratio of at least 20:1, and hopefully more. Converted to time, that would imply a flanger that sweeps from, say .5msec to 10msec (20:1 ratio), or from .2msec to 12msec (60:1 ratio). For a variety of reasons too complicated to go into here, many commercial flangers do not meet this spec. Certainly one of the most desirable "classic" flangers was the one produced by A/DA in the late 70"s and early 80"s, and briefly re-issued in the 90's. Where many other flangers would seem to "make the turnaround" too soon, the A/DA would seem to keep sweeping up and up and up into the stratosphere. Kicked the MXR's ass around the block and then some.

The reason why a flanger "sounds like a phaser on steroids" is because the number of peaks and valleys/notches created in a phaser is essentially *fixed*, while the number of peaks and notches created by flanging depends on the time lag. When the delay is very very short (e.g., less then 1/2 a millisecond), any peaks and notches created tend to be very high up in the audio spectrum, because those will be the only frequencies that "line up". As the time delay starts to get longer, more of the frequencies are able to have the dry (real time) and wet (delayed) copies line up to produce the peaks and notches. Since the flanger varies how long that delay time is, the location and number of those peaks and notches gets changed. I like to say that it sounds as if the signal is getting "infected", when the flanger sweeps "downward" and starts to inject more and more peaks and notches into the signal. 

In contrast, if a phaser produces 2 notches at the top of its sweep, it will produce 2 notches at the bottom of its sweep as well. In part, it is the increase in number of notches and peaks over the course of the sweep that makes flangers sound so much more dramatic. Now, it IS possible to make some very complex phasers that will produce 8, 12, and even 24 notches. Such phasers can, with the right sort of audio signals, sound very much like flangers. Even though the number of notches created will not change over the sweep, one of the quirks of such phasers is that at the top of the sweep you can probably only hear maybe one or two notches. As the sweep starts to move downwards, more of the notches start to become audible, and it sounds AS IF more notches/peaks are being injected. Generally speaking, though, "garden variety" flangers and phasers will sound very different, simply because average phasers usually do not generate more than 2-4 notches, while ANY flanger will work in the manner described above.

Note that a notch/peak *created* is not the same as a notch/peak *heard*. If I create a *potential* notch or peak above the range of the instrument or above the range of the speakers or human hearing, clearly you won't hear it. Consequently, anything that increases the audibility of the upper frequency content in the audio signal will make the comb-filtering effect more dramatic. Go to the site called http://modezero.com There you will find a fabulous collection of sound samples and pictures of a wide range of flangers, phasers, and chorusses. One of the things you will notice is that every flanger or phaser there will sound more dramatic of the signal has or covers a very wide frequency range. So, white noise or acoustic drums or a fuzzed guitar will sound better and show off the flanger/phaser more than will an acoustic guitar or a flute. Of course, one of the reasons why EVH's use of a flanger is so impressive is because he never uses it with a clean guitar signal. This makes it more possible for notches/peaks in the upper range to be heard.

As the time delay stretches out even further, the "lining up" effect starts to wane, and what you notice is something a little different. I mentioned the double-tracking effect before. Once the delay starts to move into the 10msec-and-up range, the focus of your hearing starts to shift, and what you notice more is not the notches and peaks created, but rather the change in pitch that comes with speeding the signal up and slowing it down. This is the basis of the chorus effect.

Many delay units are capable of straddling a wide range of possible delay times. Many flangers can covber much of what some choruses do, and vice versa. My old blue rackmount MXR Digital Delay, while producing hopelessly crappy flanging (it only had a 4:1 sweep ratio), could do flanging, chorus, doubling, and echo, simply by adjusting the delay time.

There. Make sense?


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*flanger*

Yes, makes sense, wow alot of Info..
Oh by the way, My fender is not what you think.. it stays in tune.. has a locking nut..Krahler
But i can't get the sound i want.. maybe a pedal would be better..

Oh also i am not a beginner, 35 yrs on the guitar, just never use a whammy much at all, other than a bigsby , or effect's other than Distortion, Compression, and Chorus.
The effects are just endless.. some i have no idea, what they do.. I suppose you could get samples on line somewhere.


Thanks

Rick


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

A flanger is one of the most basic and original 'effects'. It was originaly obtained by touching the 'flanges' on a real to real (analog) tape recorder (hense the name). The stomp boxes, rack units or alogrythms for a processor were designed to emulate this sound, but have more or less evolved into a sound that is what we now recognize as a flanger effect.

Another good example of a flanger would be a phonograph (record player), as you could touch it to decrease the speed and pitch of the recorded material.

You could alter the pitch, but you would also draw out the length of the note that was being played. You could 'dive bomb' a recording by slowing down the reels of a tape player or a turntable.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*flanger*

This makes me think you could also dive bomb with a flanger pedal.., if you can change the pitch>>Ummm
Rick


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

The Boss PS-5 Super Shifter does dive bombs...

but it pales in comparison to a Floyd.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

If electronic dive-bombing is the goal of your quest, then I suggest you either locate and buy a Digitech Whammy pedal or else get hold of a TIP Third Hand pedal ( http://www.musictoyz.com/guitar/pedals/tip.php ) and an analog delay pedal of some type.

In the late 70's, Electro-Harmonix produced a pedal called the "Hot Foot" ( http://filters.muziq.be/model/eh/hotfoot ). This used a wah shell (minus electronics) but connected a flexible shaft to the end of the foot-treadle controlled pot. The other end of the flexible shaft would be attached to the shaft of a pot somewhere such that you could control that pot with your foot. I used to own one at that time, and while they were useful they had a number of serious constraints. First, both the angle of the shaft and its stiffness meant that you needed to use the HF to control either a very large heavy pedal, or else a pedal that was secured in some manner to prevent it from flipping over when the HF was used. The other constraint was that the wing nut used to secure the end of the flexible shaft was large enough that you could only use it with pedals whose controls were spaced far enough apart.

Which brings me to the principal reason for mentioning the HF. The primary intended use was to move the Delay Time control on the Memory Man to achieve dive bomb and other time-manipulation effects. If you set the Delay Time control for maximum delay and then suddenly decrease delay time, you effectively "bend" the pitch upwards. If you start off with a very short delay time, and suddenly max the delay time out, you stretch the sampled sound and drop the pitch, providing a dive-bomb effect. There are limits to how it can be used, but it works.

The Tone In Progress unit, linked to above, is a real step up from the original EHX Hot Foot, both in terms of size and usability. It will fit on your pedalboard, will work with Boss pedals using tightly clustered controls, and exits the top of the pedal, providing the sort of angle that will not flip pedals at the end of the shaft over, and permit you to use the 3rd Hand in close proximity to the delay pedal.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*guitar pedal*

I will have to do some research to decide what pedal is right for me..
So far the Boss super shifter and digitech whammy.
That TIP pedal is cool.. what they dont think of.

Is there a multi- pedal that will do dive bombs Plus ??? other effects.
Like this digitec. model ( DigiTech GNX3 Guitar Workstation) anybody use one of these and can u dive bomb with it


Rick


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Rick31797 said:


> I will have to do some research to decide what pedal is right for me.. I am thinking now can i get a multi- pedal that will do that and other effects.
> 
> Like this digitec. model ( DigiTech GNX3 Guitar Workstation) anybody use one of these and can u dive bomb with it
> 
> Rick


 The GNX3 has the trademark Whammy effect. Yeah it will do it but not 100% exact. 

Eddie doesn't use a particular effect in Panama, just a Floyd Rose trem.
For Panama hit the open G and divebomb. Thats it.

If you want to hear what a flanger sounds like, listen to Unchained.


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## Jim Jones (Sep 18, 2006)

Heart's "Barracuda" is always the first song I think of when I think of flange.

Jim


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Actually, the guy who designed and built it for Howard Leese used to be a regular on the old Ampage board. Lives near Bellingham WA. Used a first-generation bucket brigade chip (MN3001).


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

The Digitech GNX-3 does indeed have a dive bomb effect. This works good for guitars without a full floating tremolo and locking nut. You hit the note and push the tip down of the foot pedal. It drops way down, just like Eddie does all the time. This is the only pedal that I know of that replicates the dive bomb effect. 
I had one and got rid of it to go back to independent foot pedals. In my opinon this is the way to go for the best sound.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*Gnx3*

If i dont find a GNX3 , i will try and find a Boss PS-5 shifter, if you are back to pedals, u must be using one of these , if you like the dive bomb effect

I was talking to the lead guitar player for April Wine and he says he uses a Boss PS-5 turned down 2 octaves with an expression pedal.

I have a Zoom expression pedal here, wonder if that will work with a Boss PS-5..
I just thought alot of seperate pedal, u end up with alot of noise and interferance.. do u use a noise suppressor...

Rick


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Rick31797 said:


> If i dont find a GNX3 , i will try and find a Boss PS-5 shifter, if you are back to pedals, u must be using one of these , if you like the dive bomb effect
> 
> I was talking to the lead guitar player for April Wine and he says he uses a Boss PS-5 turned down 2 octaves with an expression pedal.
> 
> ...



If your strat has a locking system I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to do a dive bomb without buying a pedal. Pedals (even the Digitech Whammy) are only cheesy duplications of a simple effect. I'd suggest getting somebody to show you how to do it.

I don't mean to sound negative, but a dive bomb is a technique, not an effect. If someone shows you how to do it, you won't need to spend a nickle.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*hi*

You are right, it is a technique.. that i cant seem to do. Maybe its the whammy. or guitar. or me.. probably me..
Its not a strat , its a Fender flame Elite with a Krahler.. ( i dont know what locking means) 
Here is a link.. I cant post a picture of it here. The guitar on the left.

http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=18348736&uid=10214735&members=1


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