# Shipping via FB Marketplace Ad



## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

I’ve got a guitar listed on Kijiji and FB Marketplace. I received a message on FB Messenger from a user not linked to a FB account. Want me to ship to the US.

I’ve bought items where I’ve asked the person to ship. Sent the money knowing it might be a scam, but it’s always worked out.

However, I can usually do a bit of scoping to assess the risk.

Never sold remotely though, and this one seems fishy.

Anyone with experience here?


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

How could someone write to you on facebook messenger without an acount? I wasn't aware that this was possible. But, cutting to the chase, as long as they pay beforehand, there's little risk to my mind.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Smells bad... can you afford to lose it? If you do it, get payment via EMT, not PayPal or anything where they can revoke the transfer.


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

If you’ve deactivated your account, you still have access to messenger, however you’re not able to surf profiles or marketplace. He’s probably using another account to view your listing, and communicating via a deactivated account.

I’d give it a hard pass in your shoes.


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

bw66 said:


> Smells bad... can you afford to lose it? If you do it, get payment via EMT, not PayPal or anything where they can revoke the transfer.


Can PayPal friends and family be revoked?


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Not according to PayPal.


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

As far as I’m aware, friends and family transactions don’t have any buyers protection attached to them for PayPal to step in and revoke something, however if you google PayPal and scam, you’ll find a ton of info on how people are scamming and using loopholes. In my experience, PayPal are a nightmare to deal with, and manage to screw up the most basic of things, so I wouldn’t consider Using PayPal to be a risk mitigation option in a Deal like you’re talking about


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Unless you’re REALLY in a bind and need to sell this ASAP…

I’d walk.


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

2manyGuitars said:


> Unless you’re REALLY in a bind and need to sell this ASAP…
> 
> I’d walk.


That’s my gut. Not in a bind. Just tired of Canadians deeply low-balling or offering multiple budget guitars in exchange for a Gibson.








By comparison, I was across the border a little while ago and checked out the local FB Marketplace. Saw a guitar I fancied. $2000. I offered $1800. They said $1900. Done. Totally reasonable. Easy. Everyone happy. Also had a great chat with the seller when I picked it up.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Ya Paypal gives the buyer 6 months to request a refund.


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

player99 said:


> Ya Paypal gives the buyer 6 months to request a refund.


I don’t think that’s for friends and family.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I would just stick with e transfer.


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

What you describe is like almost all deals I have done here in Canada, when I’m dealing with real guitar folks who know what things are worth. But, like anything it might not be the right price, the right time, whatever. If you have time to wait, the right deal will come your way.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Jalexander said:


> That’s my gut. Not in a bind. Just tired of Canadians deeply low-balling or offering multiple budget guitars in exchange for a Gibson.


Did you put up a FS ad here? I've got a couple of Jacksons I need to trade


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## JRtele (Jul 18, 2021)

I’ve shipped to states before on similar deal. To be comfortable (for both of us) I ask for a photo of drivers license with address the guitar is shipped to, and also do a FaceTime (ostensibly for them to see the guitar but really for my comfort).

If the buyer isn’t comfortable with either of those, I walk away. No biggie.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Jalexander said:


> I don’t think that’s for friends and family.


Of course not but who's going to do a deal using friends and family?


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

A lot of people here are terrified of PayPal for some reason. If they send you the cash via friends & family, PayPal cannot revoked the transaction because the admin fee attached to gift & service is what allows them to reverse transactions. As an additional safeguard (works with gift & service) once payment clears, move the money from your PayPal into your bank or wherever else, this is a common way to ensure no payment reversals.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

player99 said:


> Of course not but who's going to do a deal using friends and family?


It's extremely common among Americans where Paypal payments are more common. F&F means the sender pays the fees, otherwise the seller is on the hook for the fees.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

crann said:


> A lot of people here are terrified of PayPal for some reason. If they send you the cash via friends & family, PayPal cannot revoked the transaction because the admin fee attached to gift & service is what allows them to reverse transactions. As an additional safeguard (works with gift & service) once payment clears, move the money from your PayPal into your bank or wherever else, this is a common way to ensure no payment reversals.


In the early days of Paypal it was kind of a nightmare to use as a seller.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Okay Player said:


> It's extremely common among Americans where Paypal payments are more common. F&F means the sender pays the fees, otherwise the seller is on the hook for the fees.


There are no fees with F & F as far as I know.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

player99 said:


> There are no fees with F & F as far as I know.





> When sending money via “friends and family”, if the person sending the money is using a credit or debit card then the payor is charged a 2.9% fee with the option to pass that fee on to the recipient of the money.


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## Jalexander (Dec 31, 2020)

player99 said:


> Of course not but who's going to do a deal using friends and family?


I’ve paid with F&F many times. Bought a pair of pickups just a few weeks ago that way. It means as a buyer I have no recourse, so I evaluate the risk before paying. 


player99 said:


> There are no fees with F & F as far as I know.


Yes, same fees either way (I think 3%). With a normal PayPal payment, it’s the vendor who gets charged and the buyer has recourse. F&F isn’t intended for transactions, just for gifts. So the giver/buyer pays the fee and has no recourse to get it back because it’s not supposed to be used for a transaction. Of course it gets used that way all the time, but there are obvious ramifications.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I only send through my bank account when doing F&F. I pay directly out of my account or credit card with the other way and have not seen extra fees over the appox 2.9% they charge all the time and I always pay the fees for the seller. I consider it cheap insurance. There are sites that will calculate the fees so I know exactly what extra I need to send.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Jalexander said:


> I’ve paid with F&F many times. Bought a pair of pickups just a few weeks ago that way. It means as a buyer I have no recourse, so I evaluate the risk before paying.
> 
> Yes, same fees either way (I think 3%). With a normal PayPal payment, it’s the vendor who gets charged and the buyer has recourse. F&F isn’t intended for transactions, just for gifts. So the giver/buyer pays the fee and has no recourse to get it back because it’s not supposed to be used for a transaction. Of course it gets used that way all the time, but there are obvious ramifications.


From google:

*There are no fees to send money domestically to family and friends when you use your PayPal balance or bank account*, but if you use a credit or debit card, you will be charged a 2.9% plus a fixed fee (currently $0.30).Mar 7, 2022


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

From Canada to the US is a different thing, beware the fees:





__





Sending With PayPal From the US to Canada? Beware the Fees


Sending money with PayPal from the US to Canada? Because of hidden exchange rates, you may be paying much more than you think. Find alternatives now.




www.monito.com


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

player99 said:


> I only send through my bank account when doing F&F. I pay directly out of my account or credit card with the other way and have not seen extra fees over the appox 2.9% they charge all the time and I always pay the fees for the seller. I consider it cheap insurance. There are sites that will calculate the fees so I know exactly what extra I need to send.


The extra fees are why people tend to be reluctant to use PayPal. Regarding linking your bank account directly to PayPal, if that's something you want to do, feel free, but I wouldn't.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Okay Player said:


> The extra fees are why people tend to be reluctant to use PayPal. Regarding linking your bank account directly to PayPal, if that's something you want to do, feel free, but I wouldn't.


My bank account's been connected to PP for 15 years with no issues. How else does a seller get their money out of PP otherwise? Or pay for things using money?


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

player99 said:


> My bank account's been connected to PP for 15 years with no issues. How else does a seller get their money out of PP otherwise? Or pay for things using money?


Most people don't. You pay with a credit card and use your PayPal balance to pay for things. Linking a credit card gives you a fairly high level of protection, linking your bank account let's them go into your account and take money out if they decide it's warranted. It happened to a friend of mine a couple years ago. It required the bank to go through the same procedure they do when they're reversing an EMT. The bank also told my friend that PayPal operates as if it's a financial institution but they have no oversight and that's why they recommend people don't link their bank accounts.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Okay Player said:


> Most people don't. You pay with a credit card and use your PayPal balance to pay for things. Linking a credit card gives you a fairly high level of protection, linking your bank account let's them go into your account and take money out if they decide it's warranted. It happened to a friend of mine a couple years ago. It required the bank to go through the same procedure they do when they're reversing an EMT. The bank also told my friend that PayPal operates as if it's a financial institution but they have no oversight and that's why they recommend people don't link their bank accounts.


What happens if you sell something for 2K?

I haven't had any issues. But there are free accounts through TD and Bank of Montreal someone could set up for PayPal only. I think I may do that...


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

I have done a ton of eBay transactions over the years (300+) and have had probably close to that in website purchases using PayPal and F&F. I’ve only had a problem twice, both times as a buyer, with the supposed buyer protection when items were not delivered.

Both times items despite not having tracking numbers or any proof items had been sent by the vendors, the PayPal dispute resolution team sided with the vendor. I had zero recourse, no way to contact them or escalate the issue.

So in my experience, it usually works great, but when it doesn’t, it really doesn’t and you’re shit out of luck. There’s no way I’d use them on a high value transaction or something where I might need their help, like in a case where there’s a possibility of fraud. USPS and Canada Post both offer means to do the money things, which might be slower and backwards, are more secure.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I wouldnt ship a facebook sale at all.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

player99 said:


> What happens if you sell something for 2K?


Haven't had that issue. Because of PayPal's buyer protection policies I'd tell a seller who offered me PayPal to kick rocks.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Okay Player said:


> Because of PayPal's buyer protection policies I'd tell a seller who offered me PayPal to kick rocks.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Parabola said:


> I have done a ton of eBay transactions over the years (300+) and have had probably close to that in website purchases using PayPal and F&F. I’ve only had a problem twice, both times as a buyer, with the supposed buyer protection when items were not delivered.
> 
> Both times items despite not having tracking numbers or any proof items had been sent by the vendors, the PayPal dispute resolution team sided with the vendor. I had zero recourse, no way to contact them or escalate the issue.
> 
> So in my experience, it usually works great, but when it doesn’t, it really doesn’t and you’re shit out of luck. There’s no way I’d use them on a high value transaction or something where I might need their help, like in a case where there’s a possibility of fraud. USPS and Canada Post both offer means to do the money things, which might be slower and backwards, are more secure.


Canada Post has told me their insurance is for loss unless the outside of the package is substantially damaged. There's really just no winning.


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## Parabola (Oct 22, 2021)

Okay Player said:


> Canada Post has told me their insurance is for loss unless the outside of the package is substantially damaged. There's really just no winning.


I meant they have postal money orders, COD etc as a way to do financial transactions.

The insurance is useless, I sent a pedal to a buyer 3 years ago. I put it in the original box, bubble wrapped it, put it in another box and used extra bubble wrap, packing etc and photographed every step just in case. When the pedal arrived, something had penetrated the boxes, all the packing and the steel case of the pedal, smashing the guts out. The buyer took photos and videos of the damage and of the pedal not working. Canada Post denied the insurance claim because I didn’t have a video showing that the pedal worked before shipping it. I appealed it, and it was again denied…


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Okay Player said:


> Canada Post has told me their insurance is for loss unless the outside of the package is substantially damaged. There's really just no winning.


Also BEWARE…

If you ship outside of Canada using Canada Post, the maximum you can insure for is $1000 Cdn (or around $770 US).

I have a guitar I could easily sell in the US for more money and much quicker than I could up here but I’m reluctant to ship a $2500 guitar with only $1000 insurance.


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