# How to lose weight.



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

*Three rules*:

1) hunger is your friend (easy)
2) eat according to the 1960's Canada Food Guide, and IGNORE ALL CURRENT BULLSHIT!! (easy) 
3) find the thing that makes you gain weight (difficult)

*Regarding rule #3*:

My wife simply stopped eating sugar. Sugar only. Everything else is OK. (Lotta sugar out there...) As for me, I dropped ten pounds in a couple of weeks simply following rule #1 & rule #2, but then stalled for more than a year until I quit eating potatoes. Everything else is OK. (Last night I had three pastrami sandwiches for supper and four more for dessert! That's right, SEVEN pastrami sandwiches on white buns in one evening. This morning my weight was down by .8 lbs (from 170.6 to 169.8). The lowest since I started two years ago.) She avoids sugar and I avoid potatoes. When we indulge at a restaurant or social event, its a real treat.

Everyone is different, so don't be sucked in by the latest book, documentary, or stupid internet post. You need to experiment with rule three until you find the thing(s) *YOU* must avoid. 

I refuse to respond to any posts submitted to this thread. There's the Kapn's advice. Take it or leave it.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

KapnKrunch said:


> *Three rules*:
> 
> 1) hunger is your friend (easy)
> 2) eat according to the 1960's Canada Food Guide, and IGNORE ALL CURRENT BULLSHIT!! (easy)
> ...


"Whatever sinks your boat". I know the saying is "Whatever floats your boat" but when were talking about about weight, I think sinks is more appropriate. Congrats


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I made two changes:

work out on a regular basis and eat right. The working out got my cardio going and my muscles used to working, while the eating right probably accounted for a lot of the loss. Proper portions (no more eating 2x the necessary calories in a meal just because) probably went a very long way as well.

I lost 60 pounds in less than a year. I'm back up to my old weight () but since I was in shape I don't look quite as out of it. I am though...

If people changed their diets they would probably notice a 10-15 pound loss within a couple of months. My kickers are bread and cheese, and I love them both. I know how to lose weight, I just haven't made any changes.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Be honest and informed on calories. Food calories are notoriously underestimated, and calories burned are grossly overestimated. That 15 minute walk gets you a carrot not a milkshake and fries.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

ZeroGravity said:


> Be honest and informed on calories. Food calories are notoriously underestimated, and calories burned are grossly overestimated. That 15 minute walk gets you a carrot not a milkshake and fries.


Calories burned on that walk would depend on a number of things though. Was it flat or altering terrain? Did you flex your core and use (close to) full range of motion during the walk? What was the temperature outside during your walk?

Lots of variables. The big thing is to not get hung up on things and just stick to whatever it is you choose, at least for a while.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Take up smoking and cocaine, the pounds will come right off.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

It's funny how a lot of people over eat and don't even realize it! They ingest more calories then their body requires and are upset when the start gaining weight. 

Your lifestyle plays a big part as to whether you gain weight or lose it! It's not rocket science. 

I eat when I am hungry. I listen to my body.

I only eat until I am not hungry.

I eat about 8 or so tiny meals a day.

I try to eat as healthy as possible! I do have a hankering for a bag of Ms. Vickies and a slice of cheesecake about once a month.

I have gained a total of 5 lbs since I got married 33 years ago.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Burn off more calories than you consume.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

nkjanssen said:


> A buddy of mine was in a plane crash and ended up in the hospital for 6 months. He said it was the best weight loss program ever. He was totally ripped when he got out.


I don't know if you were serious here or just following my lead, either way, I smirked a bit and now I feel like an asshole.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Eat less food.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I went through it once, to the tune of about 30 lbs. I did no extra activity, and really only did 2 things...keeping in mind that I eat 3 meals a day and some snacking.
-at meal time, and this most specifically means supper as I just have a bowl of cereal for bkfst and a sandwich for lunch most days, only eat until I was reasonably satisfied then push the rest away. No finishing a huge plateful that might be put in front of me.
-cut out pop, which for me is only generally 1 Pepsi a day.

I did no extra exercise, no limiting what types of foods. Spent very little time actually feeling hungry.

That was some years ago, and now I gotta do it again, though not to the tune of 30. I'd be pretty happy with 15, 25 I'd be pretty lean (not bodybuilder cut, but I'd need a bunch of new clothes). Been hard getting started for some reason.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

The only thing you need to lose weight is determination, imo.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

adcandour said:


> The only thing you need to lose weight is determination, imo.


Well, that's the start of it.

Also, losing weight isn't necessarily difficult (example: I eat less bread, I probably lose 10 pounds easy). The hard part is keeping it off.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

adcandour said:


> The only thing you need to lose weight is determination, imo.



If you want something bad enough, it doesn't really matter what it takes to achieve your desired goals. 

This mindset applies to anything in life.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Budda said:


> Well, that's the start of it.
> 
> Also, losing weight isn't necessarily difficult (example: I eat less bread, I probably lose 10 pounds easy). The hard part is keeping it off.


To me, that's all of it. If the hard part is keeping it off, determination will take care of it. You'll be determined to find a way, determined to keep it off, etc. etc.

To me, weight loss is all about the mind. I had to get into a specific state of mind to lose my weight and keep it off. 

The diet thing is easy. Reduce your carb intake. Simple. 

If you go all 'gung ho' you're probably going to fail. Just go easy, be realistic, and stay determined.


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

I hate eating. Pain in the a s s. Preparing meals is damn near a part time job. I work 45-50 hours a week. I really don't care too much about food quantity or quality. If I did I'd have to take up meal planning. Start with a future 7 day meal plan. Sunday nite. There blows 15-20 mins.

Then spend gobs of money at the grocery store. Fight with crowds. Bag your own food. Cringe at "Healty Organic Pesticide Free Natural Food" prices. Food for my wife and I. 2 hours are gone by the time I get groceries home and packed away.

Get up. 9 plus hours at work. Drag your mentally fried brain home. Need a beer and an hour to calm down from your daily dose of corporate stress.

Drag out the food. Prepare it. Every day. Make a mess. Take deep breaths and try to eat Hickama Eggplant Fish-Cakes. Clean up from meal. Wash dishes. Put away. Repeat every dinner. There goes 2 hours a day.

Turn around and it's 7:30 or 8. Now it's time for an hour of exercise. Shower. Hit the sack. Repeat for 40 years. Throw in kids. House and vehicle maintenance. Relationships with Spouse and Friends.

Where the heck do your favourite hobbies fit in? Are your wages going up to account for seemingly exponentially rising food prices? Mine aren't.

So...I don't eat like I should. I carve time out of my working family man provider's schedule. That time comes out of meal planning, preparing and eating.

I need to be a good husband. A good father. A good employee. A family mechanic, gardner and carpenter.

Guess who comes in at least 4th, maybe 5th? Being good to myself. Eating is a P I T A. Rant over. Been one of those "corporate days".


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Budda said:


> (example: I eat less bread, I probably lose 10 pounds easy)


I'm guessing that bread isn't really the issue but the amount of sugar used in the making of it. Sugar goes by many names and it may not be readily apparent. Sugar is what gives most things flavour but it's also a most insidious and addictive ingredient.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Quit drinking beer


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Scotty said:


> Quit drinking beer


Shut your goddamn mouth!


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Scotty said:


> Quit drinking beer


What would you suggest?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

In study after study, most people who attempt to lose a significant amount of weight (e.g., more than 10lbs per month) will generally put it all back on within a year. Part of that has to do with metabolism and the ease with which one's body absorbs fat when forcibly depleted of it. But more importantly, it has to do with the sustainability of the eating regimen they adopt.

Too often, people are motivated to lose weight because they have put on a large amount and would like to take it off in a quasi-magical fashion over a too-short interval. I applaud their good intentions, but the extreme measures they take to do so are often unsustainable. So, they may deprive themselves in a way that only serves to _increase_ the desirability of foods (and quantities) that will inevitably add weight. They will adopt meal regimens that only serve to create tremendous temptations. And when they fall off, the contrast between what they were trying to do, and what they ended up doing when they fell off, is so great as to undermine any motivation to get back on. It can easily lead to a "What's the point?" mindset.

Ideally, one should not attempt to take weight off any faster than it is initially put on. If a person put on 20lbs over the course of 2 months, you'd wonder "How the hell did _that_ happen? That's not natural." So why should one expect that _losing_ 20lbs in the same time period would result in anything long-term or "natural"?

In a sense, it is not the aspiration or the diet itself that doesn't work, but rather the time-frame attempted. Changing one's regimen so as to knock off, say 5% of daily intake (maintaining regular activity level), could easily knock off a couple of pounds in a month, which IS sustainable. Do that for 6 months, and there goes the 15 or 20 lbs. But what's key is that the person doesn't have to change that much, making it all the more easy to maintain whatever that intake change is over a much longer period.

I recently dropped to my lowest weight in 45 years. I finally had to stop punching holes in my belt to tighten it more (so my pants would stay up) and buy a new belt. When I realized how much I had lost, I began weighing myself regularly because I hadn't been _trying_ to lose weight. I was starting to get concerned that maybe this was an indication of something going wrong. But my weight has held steady for a few weeks. It would appear to have been a result of a new diabetes medication I'd been put on in June. One of the things the new med does is increase urination. That, in turn makes me a lot thirstier than I have normally been. This sweltering summer has exacerbated that. Historically, I have 2 cups of coffee in the morning, and then something with supper to swallow my evening meds with (I won't go into the kidney stone attacks that happen when you go "full-camel"). But now that I'm filling up on fluids, it would seem I'm eating less. I haven't changed anything about _what_ I eat (though not as much meat and a lot more vegetables and grains, simply because I like 'em), but I seem to have stumbled onto an inconspicuous way of eating less. I am NOT starving, and it doesn't really feel like I'm eating less. And THAT'S what makes it sustainable, and resulted in dropping around 12-15lbs since early June. I was already 10lbs lighter since I gave up on cheese, but we'll leave that for the other thread.

The only other occasion I lost that much was a period where I just decided I would set a curfew. I could eat _as much_ as I wanted of _whatever_ I wanted, but when 7:30 rolled around, that was it. No "invisible food" consumed with TV. (People do eat a lot that they tend to discount or ignore.) 7:30 to bedtime isn't that long a stretch. It's sustainable because it doesn't feel like any sort of extreme.

I certainly won't recommend either of these two things to anyone as surefire methods. But what they both underscore is that gradual weight loss, in a manner that_ feels _effortless, and is sustainable over the long haul, is what a person has to find. The method employed will vary by person, but apart from the obvious characteristic of involving balanced nutrition, whatever changes one undertakes should feel easy and painless to achieve. The more painless they are, the easier it will be to maintain that regimen, and the greater the likelihood the weight will be kept off for a long time, if not forever. It won't happen quickly, but overnight should not be the goal.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Robert1950 said:


> Burn off more calories than you consume.


This is the perfect answer. It doesn't really matter whether it's a fat, carb or protein calorie! If you eat more calories then you expend then you will gain weight! It's that simple.

Robert gets a star for that answer!

Robert you are awarded a gold star for your answer!


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

In all seriousness, I lost 30 lbs a few years but it wasn't always sunshine and unicorns. Making smart choices when deciding what and how much to eat along with watching the hockey game sitting on the couch with a six pack versus heading out for a walk and listening to it via my phone...I stopped making smart decisions (for me) and put the weight back on.

I need to get back on the smart train and stay on for the long haul this time.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

johnnyshaka said:


> Shut your goddamn mouth!


This works on a bunch of levels. ,..including weight loss.


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

Scotty said:


> Quit drinking beer


BBBBUUUUUURRRRRPPPPP!!! he should be banned from the forum for suggesting such an outrageous, sneaky, AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH hang him by the balls in the tallest tree on Sunday.*#*(B#(*


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

adcandour said:


> The diet thing is easy. Reduce your carb intake. Simple.


You don't have to reduce your carb intake to lose weight though. It's about eating smart, not necessarily less. Lola provided the perfect example - eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full.

Things become a bit more complicated for anyone who's an emotional eater.


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## AlBDarned (Jun 29, 2017)

Robert1950 said:


> Burn off more calories than you consume.





Lola said:


> This is the perfect answer. It doesn't really matter whether it's a fat, carb or protein calorie! If you eat more calories then you expend then you will gain weight! It's that simple.
> 
> Robert gets a star for that answer!


Exactly.

The weight loss industry thrives off of obscuring basic information.

3,500 calories = approx. 1 lb. of weight

Eat an extra 3,500 cals over what you burn, you gain a pound. Burn 3,500 more than you eat, you lose a pound.

End of story.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

AlBDarned said:


> Exactly.
> 
> The weight loss industry thrives off of obscuring basic information.
> 
> ...


What about water weight? What about staying regular? 



(I'm just trying to get people to discuss all sides of things).


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I once lost 40 lbs by replacing all meals with bourbon. Only took a few months.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

What's really sad is watching all the really obese people at the Exhibition food building just shoveling it down their throats. They don't care what it is! They aren't even mobile and have to depend on a scooter to get around. I can't even eat around people like that. It makes me angry too because they are such a burden on our health care system.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I went from 180 to 115 and have kept it off for almost ten years now. 

For me, it was accepting that losing weight is a lifelong change and not a temporary one, eating significantly less food, and cutting out the junk.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

butterknucket said:


> I went from 180 to 115 and have kept it off for almost ten years now.
> 
> For me, it was accepting that losing weight is a lifelong change and not a temporary one, eating significantly less food, and cutting out the junk.



115 lbs? How tall are you?

Your talking kilos right?


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Lola said:


> 115 lbs? How tall are you?
> 
> Your talking kilos right?


No, 115 pounds. 

I'm 5'5.


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

I lost weight by spending 4 days a week in the gym and walking 4 km per night. Then I got beaver fever last year and dropped another 15 lbs. Kept it off too. Lately I've been real hungry though, you could feed me with a snowblower. Still don't put on weight though.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Budda said:


> You don't have to reduce your carb intake to lose weight though. It's about eating smart, not necessarily less. Lola provided the perfect example - eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full.
> 
> Things become a bit more complicated for anyone who's an emotional eater.


True, you could starve yourself  

I think eating smart has a lot to do with reducing carbs - what are the alternatives? Is there a diet that doesn't reduce carb intake other than the high carb on the low GI scale one? That's mainly why I said "simple". The other diets that count this and that or put you in a 'program', etc just over complicate things.

Imo, carbs are key. You're either eliminating them, reducing them, or changing them to carbs that are low on the GI. When the Shouldice surgeons want you to lose weight, they prescribe a diet that is virtually carbless - even no corn, beans, or lentils. 

I started my diet by cutting out tons of carbs. I knew that I'd crack eventually, but had a contingency plan - diabetic candies and chocolates (from Purdy's - they're amazing). Once I started craving breads and pasta again, I went the whole grain route.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Budda said:


> Calories burned on that walk would depend on a number of things though. Was it flat or altering terrain? Did you flex your core and use (close to) full range of motion during the walk? What was the temperature outside during your walk?


But that's sorta my point. Most people have no clue about how many calories they burn. A 15min walk @ 4mph pace, which is way faster than most people walk, burns a mere 105 calories but they would justify a Starbuck's caramel latte at 500+ calories. A leisurely pace 15 minute lunch walk burns a paltry 75 calories, about 1 egg's worth of calories.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Jesus Murphy...I finished picking the apples from our tree and then got the girls ready for bed and what do I smell...fresh apple pie from the apples I just picked!

Diet starts tomorrow...maybe Friday...


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I lost about 10 pounds over about 4 hours during a race day. That was a real slice; hadn't eaten anything because I spent all my money on parts that broke that day. Collapsed and had to be driven home by someone. Hot as hell that day and I was flat on my back recovering for 4 days after. Couldn't even drink water for about 24 hours. It was like take a couple of sips and then puke plus massive muscle spasms and cramps every 20 minutes. Continued to lose weight etc. Took awhile to recover from that because electrolytes got way out of balance and few weeks later drove on another hot race day and could feel the symptoms lurking in the background. Apparently I should have gone to the hospital to be rehydrated by IV. Didn't get driven home until end of the day so I was layin under a trailer (only shade there was) while the trophy presentation stuff was going on and thinking "please god don't let me shit myself in front of all these people" .... lol.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

It helps if you eat clean! If I eat a baked potatoe, I just sprinkle a little S&P no butter. If I need something on it the a tablespoon of fat free Greek yogurt is awesome. I don't use sauces or mayo or any crap like that. Lemon juice on my veggies. My salad dressings are made with Greek yogurt and some spices! I haven't used sugar in 5 years. Nothing like a spoonful of peanut butter and a banana for a quick, healthy and portable snack.

Do I feel like I am missing something?

Hell yes, I just baked a cheese cake an I am going to have a huge slice of it! Again, I made it with fat free yogurt, ricotta, egg whites and honey topped with fresh strawberries. Maybe I will eat the whole damned thing.

If you are craving something, go ahead and have a modest piece of whatever! If you don't your more likely to binge later on.


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## AlBDarned (Jun 29, 2017)

Budda said:


> What about water weight? What about staying regular?


Good point, we can only rent beer

Isn't this the thread where someone suggested giving up beer?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Seems strange having a thread about dieting with no posts from Milkman. Come'on back Milkman, I know your listening. The forum didn't change much since the new owners took over so all's good.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

AlBDarned said:


> Exactly.
> 
> The weight loss industry thrives off of obscuring basic information.
> 
> ...


I sent a note to the Food Network two years ago, and politely suggested that, in view of "the obesity epidemic", they make it a point to set a limit of 3000 calories on the meals they highlight. Far too many shows seem to thrive on spotlighting meals that are dangerously excessive. There's even that new show "Ginormous Food". Quite honestly, 3000 calories for a single meal is still pretty excessive, but I know there are truckers, athletes, and others out there, whose physical regimen _occasionally_ demands that sort of single-meal intake. But showcasing such meals as some type of normal fare just sets a bad precedent. Eating should not be an "achievement" or heroic act.

I never heard back from them.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

I’ll be the weirdo and pipe in with my recent escapade.

It’s extreme, but it’s something that led to a sustainable way of eating.

For me.

That important to note because even people who have tried the same thing have had different results.

In January, my doctor told me I needed to lose weight and clean up my blood work results, mostly blood sugars which were in the pre-diabetic range. High in that range. He said we could go one of two things: take statins, or change your lifestyle. I said I’d try the lifestyle change first. He agreed that that was the best way to go because I wasn’t in trouble yet, but if I didn’t change, I was headed for trouble.

So, I started on Family Day in February. By the first week of March, I had lost 30 pounds.

How?

I ate bacon for breakfast, lunch and dinner. 
Occasionally, I substituted a couple of slices for an egg.
Every few days, I had an avocado. 
I love bacon. I still love bacon.

Why did this work?

Low calorie. 
Obviously, less calories in equals weight loss.

Low carb. 
Less carbs means less glucose which means less fat storage and better blood work.

Good fat to protein ratio. 
Fat makes you feel full on less and for longer. So, you don’t get cravings. Protein gives you building blocks to keep your muscle mass up and it also provides a source of glucose to feed your brain.
The fat also kicks your body into a state where it wants to burn fat for energy. So, it starts to feed off of all the fat you’ve got stored. This the ketosis, ketogenic, keto-diet buzz-wordy tings you see all over the Internet these days.

So, after the first 30 days, I shifted into what is referred to as a lazy keto way of eating. Note that I don’t call it a diet. It’s the way that I eat now. Why the lazy way! Because it’s simple. If it weren’t simple I couldn’t do it in a sustainable manner.

I don’t have to count anything. I just am conscious of the obvious carbs and try to keep my daily intake low.
So, I still get carbs. I just don’t get a massive hit of stuff that is high on the glycemic index.

Doing this from March until now, I’m just shy of 60 pounds gone in total.

I saw my doctor in June when I was just over 50 pounds less and he was pleasantly surprised at my progress.
His simple statement about my blood work, “I have no more concerns. At all.”
His only question was, “Can you sustain this?”
That was an easy “Yes” for me.


The only side effects of doing this, and they are easily avoided, are problems if you let your electrolytes drop too low.
When you’re losing weight, especially burning fat off, you’ll lose a lot of sodium, potassium and magnesium.
Bacon takes care of the sodium for the most part, but some have needed to add a bit more into their diet.
Potassium supplements are the easy and low calorie way to get that sorted. Bananas have too much sugar. Avocado is great and low on the GI, but it does add calories and sometimes it’s hard to eat enough because you really do feel full on just bacon. I messed this up once and had wicked leg cramps. 
Magnesium supplement is key when doing just bacon. Spinach and other leafy greens work well when in maintenance mode.
Keep those in check and the only side effect is peeing a lot, but that’s true for most weight loss methods.

And clothes. You’ll need to buy all new clothes...

I’m 6’2” and I went from 247.8 on Family Day of this year to 189.0 as of this morning.
My energy level is WAY up. I feel like I’m thinking clearer, sharper. I sleep better. I have less un-earned aches and pains.
My blood pressure has always been good and that hasn’t changed 

I don’t feel like I’m missing anything at all.
I still treat myself once in a while and have ice cream or some kind of treat. If there’s some kind of celebration, such as a birthday, I have cake. I’ve allowed myself an occasional burger with the bun. I just skip the fries.
I just get back on the wagon right away. 

Lindor truffles have only 6g carbs per candy. If I’ve gone low to no carbs for most of the day, one of this is almost required. 
Sleeman Clear 2.0 has only 2g of carbs per serving. If I have no other carbs in a day, I can have 10beers and not fall off the (carb) wagon. LOL!
Hard liquor is almost all zero carb. So, I still have Scotch and Bourbon, Vodka. I drink those straight most of the time. So, no worry about what’s in the mix. If I want something taller, I’ll have a vodka and soda.
Dry red wine is about 3 to 4g of carbs per glass. So, one or two at dinner isn’t going to hurt too much if it’s an occasional thing.
Fruit is a treat and I treat it as such, but most berries, cantaloupe and honeydew are relatively low on the GI. 

There are a ton of keto-approved recipes on the net. Even if you don’t follow a fully ketogenic way of eating, they’re a great way to have some really good food (and treats) without slamming your pancreas into overdrive.
Otherwise, I stick to the simplest form of Meat, Cheese, Eggs, Nuts, and Veggies that grow above the ground. I can figure out a satisfying meal with just that in mind.

So, that worked for me.
I dont exercise. I should, just for the cardio, but I don’t have the frame of mind to do it. 
I am more active in that I’m doing more things more often, but I should do stuff that gets my heart rate up.
I’m starting to have unintentional thoughts about doing that now. It’s always been a hard and fast, “Nope”. So maybe the physical changes are changing my mind about that.

As it’s been said, everyone is different.
Some posts above call out sugar and/or carbs as the culprit. I believe that was the case for me.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

And I just realised, after reading some of the bad milk thread that I’ve dumped that Bacon info in a different thread.

Sorry. It’s early in the day.


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

Full time Bacon. Mmm. Bowel movements? 
The rest of my time awake. No thanks.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Guitar101 said:


> Seems strange having a thread about dieting with no posts from Milkman. Come'on back Milkman, I know your listening. The forum didn't change much since the new owners took over so all's good.


I am going to pm him! I really liked him.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

dodgechargerfan said:


> I’ll be the weirdo and pipe in with my recent escapade.
> 
> It’s extreme, but it’s something that led to a sustainable way of eating.
> 
> ...


The Keto diet does work very well! My son(my avatar) uses it in his off season. 

Good on you that you decided to act on your health situation.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Lola said:


> I am going to pm him! I really liked him.


I can't start a conversation with Milkman. Wonder why?


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Lola said:


> I can't start a conversation with Milkman. Wonder why?


He probably deleted his account...


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

johnnyshaka said:


> He probably deleted his account...


Ok thx!


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Lola said:


> Ok thx!


Actually his account is still there but there is an option you can set that says not to accept conversations...maybe he's set that?


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

johnnyshaka said:


> Actually his account is still there but there is an option you can set that says not to accept conversations...maybe he's set that?


Idk but thanks anyways!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Calories in < calories out. Not that easy though - all the exercise in the world won't compensate for a bad diet. It's just too easy nowadays to eat way too many calories (with virtually no nutrition). So ultimately, what we put in our mouths is the biggest factor.

With exercise, I don't think about 'how many calories I've burned'. I think about 'how much better my body is at burning calories'. Covert Bailey. Train your body to be a big, fuel burning supercharged V8 instead of a little 1 litre 3 cylinder engine. That's what exercise can do.


Failing all of this, surround yourself with fat friends. That is getting easier all the time, as we get older, in this sedentary phacebook/cellphone culture.





cboutilier said:


> I once lost 40 lbs by replacing all meals with bourbon. Only took a few months.


The hard part with a diet like that is it's hard to get off it. You say a few months, but it may have been a few years. How would you know? You were hammered the whole time.


----------



## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

I went from 260 to a range between 175-185. Did it in one year. I've kept it off for four years now. Biochemistry, not physics, is your friend. I won't even talk about how I did it these days, as I'm sick of the questioning and pushback I get from people who are convinced I'll have an MI at any second. I'm 54 years old, and on no medications whatsoever. I don't even take an Ibuprofen more than about 2-3 times a year.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Merlin said:


> I went from 260 to a range between 175-185. Did it in one year. I've kept it off for four years now. Biochemistry, not physics, is your friend. I won't even talk about how I did it these days, as I'm sick of the questioning and pushback I get from people who are convinced I'll have an MI at any second. I'm 54 years old, and on no medications whatsoever. I don't even take an Ibuprofen more than about 2-3 times a year.


MI = myocardial infarction?

It doesn't matter what others think! If it works for you then so be it!

That's a major accomplishment. Be very proud of yourself.

There are things in my life that I do to keep the demons at bay and if I ever told anybody some of the stuff I do, they would think I was bat shit crazy. Some things are better left unsaid.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

Lola said:


> MI = myocardial infarction?


Yep.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

What do you folks think of the Mediterranean (AKA ...Diet) approach to eating?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

greco said:


> What do you folks think of the Mediterranean (AKA ...Diet) approach to eating?


hmmm...I'm mixed about it. while its true that they are far less obese in the Mediterranean,. and Europe on the whole, I think there are other factors there...the big one being lifestyle.
I spent some time in the south of france this year, and from what I saw, their diet looks nothing like the "mediteraanean diet" I see being pitched in books here.
reality was, its very bread heavy....everywhere you look, people are carrying baguettes.... gnoshing on them, or bringing them home for dinner, or even just eating them with some cheese outside on lunchbreaks...all the restaurants give it to you for free (although water, as seen as less essential for life, is something they charge for).
so, having done the low carb thing before (it works, but I always always craving, never satisfied, and easily weary of the limitations), I tried this sort of diet when I got home.amazingly, I did drop a few lbs. eating lots of bread and cheese. I think it was because, it satiated me more than high protein, so my overall caloric consumption was lower. the other difference: sugar. way less than in north America. didn't see much butter either, mostly olive oil.

IMO, not everyone will be satisfied by the same foods. to some, eating steak and chicken all the time while on keto is a dream....for me, it was a chore. nor do I have much faith that something that works for a 20-something, with a 20-somethings metabolism and lifestyle of spending hours in the gym every week, will work for a 40 something with a sedentary lifestyle and little time. BFD...any 20 year old can be fit. ive been that superfit 20-something. what I did then would not work for me today.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

greco said:


> What do you folks think of the Mediterranean (AKA ...Diet) approach to eating?


Do whatever works for you personally! 

IMHO no one needs a diet period. You need to have a lifestyle change that will enhance the ability to lose weight and maintain that target weight in the foreseeable future! 

It's just common sense and nothing more!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Diablo said:


> I spent some time in the south of France this year, and from what I saw, their diet looks nothing like the "Mediteraanean diet" I see being pitched in books here.
> reality was, its very bread heavy....everywhere you look, people are carrying baguettes.... gnoshing on them, or bringing them home for dinner, or even just eating them with some cheese outside on lunchbreaks...all the restaurants give it to you for free (although water, as seen as less essential for life, is something they charge for).


Very interesting and enlightening. Thanks.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

greco said:


> Very interesting and enlightening. Thanks.


Thanks. some other things I would also add:
very little fast food places compared to here. in the town we stayed at for quite a while, St tropez, there was one Mcdonalds...No Wendys, KFC or other competition. a restaurant there isn't just a teenager in front of a deep fryer. if you want cheap/fast food, you buy a baguette and a piece of cheese and some water. seriously.
Pop and French fries are NOT the de facto standards in restaurants you see here. However, unless you go to a specific sort of restaurant ie Thai, Brazilian steakhouse etc, most of the restaurants menus look very much the same, in that 70% of the menu consists of pizza and pasta options....it became a joke for us when we would talk about going out to eat. "sure, what do you feel like, pizza or pasta?". if theres a such thing as French cuisine, its in the north of france or Paris. But when we went way north to Geneva and Montreux, it really wasn't that different again. Pizza and pasta and baguettes.
sweet cocktails ie margaritas etc were also rare, even at the beach. again....they don't care for sugar the way we do. but certainly not averse to carbs as the mediterranean diet books imply. Noone was sitting around eating sardines and avocados under a tree while guzzling olive oil and red wine. Well, maybe the _idiote du village_. If I was writing a Medit. diet book based on my observations, id sum it up with eat carbs if it satisfies you, esp vegetables, balance that with protein, eliminate sugar/sweeteners if possible, avoid processed and fast food, and fried/fatty sides/snacks like French fries/chips. enjoy wine and beer regularly but in moderation. sidenote: beer/wine were a bargain splurge, as they often cost about the same as pop.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Diablo said:


> Pizza and pasta and baguettes.


Please tell me that they enjoy/continue the tradition of having a glass of wine with their meal(s). That is the part of the (so called) Mediterranean "approach" that I like the most, along with pasta, my life long weakness.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

greco said:


> Please tell me that they enjoy/continue the tradition of having a glass of wine with their meal(s). That is the part of the (so called) Mediterranean "approach" that I like the most, along with pasta, my life long weakness.


oh ya, wine and beer are ever present. and so is water. they make a bigger deal there of serving fancy bottled waters in restaurants. I'm sure the profit margin has something to do with it, but theres also a sense of pride. i suppose they see themselves as the birthplace of bottled/spring waters...Evian, Nestle, etc . Ask for all the free bread you like, but they do make it kind of embarrassing asking for table/tap water.
and as I said before, it feels foolish ordering a coke with dinner when a glass of European beer or wine is maybe ten cents more


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

greco said:


> Very interesting and enlightening. Thanks.


Sorry Greco I don't mean to sound snarky, rude or like a know it all. 

You just have to know how many grams of fat, carbs and protein your body requires to function at normal capacity and take it from there! 

Don't forget too that exercise plays a key fundamental component in maintaining your weight


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Lola, exercise can help but it's certainly not fundamental. I'm a living breathing example. I lost (and kept off for a good number of years) 30 lbs being almost a total couch potato, just by managing my intake. "Abs are made in the kitchen", I don't know where that originated but I sure agree with it.

That is not meant to look down on exercise or those to do it. I recognize its merits, I just don't agree that it's necessary for weight loss/maintenance.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Lola said:


> Sorry Greco I don't mean to sound snarky, rude or like a know it all.
> 
> You just have to know how many grams of fat, carbs and protein your body requires to function at normal capacity and take it from there!
> 
> Don't forget too that exercise plays a key fundamental component in maintaining your weight


I was actually quoting @Diablo and the information he presented (re: the south of France) in that post.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

keto said:


> Lola, exercise can help but it's certainly not fundamental. I'm a living breathing example. I lost (and kept off for a good number of years) 30 lbs being almost a total couch potato, just by managing my intake. "Abs are made in the kitchen", I don't know where that originated but I sure agree with it.
> 
> That is not meant to look down on exercise or those to do it. I recognize its merits, I just don't agree that it's necessary for weight loss/maintenance.


Exactly...exercise will make your body "healthier" but eating well will keep weight in check.

Healthy and "at your ideal weight for your age and body type" are not the same thing.

Per @adcandour and his comment earlier about determination being the key...I completely agree with that...if you are determined, and continue to be determined, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to eat healthy, exercise regularly and live a long and fulfilling life. So long as you make the lifestyle changes necessary to stay on track and remain determined to stick with it you will lose weight, be healthy inside and out, and remain so for as long as you stay the course. Simple as that.

Well, not so simple...but you know what I mean.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

keto said:


> Lola, exercise can help but it's certainly not fundamental. I'm a living breathing example. I lost (and kept off for a good number of years) 30 lbs being almost a total couch potato, just by managing my intake. "Abs are made in the kitchen", I don't know where that originated but I sure agree with it.
> 
> .


I beg to differ. Maybe you are an anomaly.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Lola said:


> I beg to differ. Maybe you are an anomaly.


Read up on "Basal Metabolic Rate" ...it will support what @keto is writing


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

There's exercise and there's exercise. I'm pretty much a couch potato too. But, grocery shopping at a Superstore, or going to Ikea, is a good 2km trot just to get what you need and get out. Plus, I walk to and from the bus to work 5 days a week. There's all that activity standing in the kitchen chopping vegetables, or cleaning the garage. And so on. There's lots of invisible ways to get activity without being intent on "exercising"...just like there's ways to up one's caloric intake without it feeling like meals. 

And yes, some bodies seem built for retaining heat, rather than using energy for "core temperature maintenance". There's plenty of scrawny folks who just_ wish_ they could put on some meat. Not like they're overly active or eat dramatically less. It just gets burnt off in heat.


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## Guest (Sep 28, 2017)

mhammer said:


> There's exercise and there's exercise.


and then there's


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

ZeroGravity said:


> But that's sorta my point. Most people have no clue about how many calories they burn. A 15min walk @ 4mph pace, which is way faster than most people walk, burns a mere 105 calories but they would justify a Starbuck's caramel latte at 500+ calories. A leisurely pace 15 minute lunch walk burns a paltry 75 calories, about 1 egg's worth of calories.


And most people don't realize that they're burning calories at rest so that walk may have only increased the amount burned by 50 or so calories.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Lola said:


> I beg to differ. Maybe you are an anomaly.


I don't know who taught you, but they were wrong.

To give a gruesome example, look at any victim of starvation. Now, tell me how much exercise they are likely getting?

Again, exercise can CONTRIBUTE to weight loss and maintenance, but is not required AT ALL. Exercise is more a contributor to overall health, as @johnnyshaka noted.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

greco said:


> Read up on "Basal Metabolic Rate" ...it will support what @keto is writing


I know all about it! I was a personal trainer for 15 years!

Regardless of what has been said. Walking to your car, going up and down a set of stairs, doing laundry etc is a form of extremely light exercise! Couch potatoe is doing absolutely nothing! I mean zip, zero nada.

I didn't mean formal exercise.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

laristotle said:


> and then there's


What else could I expect from you? You're hilarious!


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Again, as a simplification, many people use exercise as a justification for eating/drinking but make the mistake of overestimating the calories burned and underestimating the caloric content of food (because your Bowflex said you burned 1500 calories in 20 minutes so that should be good for a Big Mac and fries)

Strictly speaking a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, at the most simple level a 100 calories from an apple is the same as a 100 calories from a piece of chocolate in terms of energy content or fruit juice is better than Coke. Yes the apple is "healthier" but it is still the same 100 calories but eating fruit all day as a healthy choice may still overload your calorie intake.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

ZeroGravity said:


> Again, as a simplification, many people use exercise as a justification for eating/drinking but make the mistake of overestimating the calories burned and underestimating the caloric content of food (because your Bowflex said you burned 1500 calories in 20 minutes so that should be good for a Big Mac and fries)
> 
> Strictly speaking a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, at the most simple level a 100 calories from an apple is the same as a 100 calories from a piece of chocolate in terms of energy content or fruit juice is better than Coke. Yes the apple is "healthier" but it is still the same 100 calories but eating fruit all day as a healthy choice may still overload your calorie intake.



Correct, and again I am an example. 3 years ago, I quit smoking and got heavily into weightlifting. I pounded HEAVY (for me) weights for a year. At 52, I was stronger than I had ever been in my life, by a good measure. I also got bigger, I did some reading saying (paraphrasing) 'gotta feed the machine for muscle growth'. I took it too liberally and ate everything I looked at. I was fat. Not belly hanging over belt fat, but definitely 20-25 lbs bigger than I should have been. I have a good metabolism naturally, plus working out hard, I know I was burning a TON of calories, but I took in a TON AND A HALF lol.

Side effect, my blood pressure rose to just over healthy range as opposed to the 'very low end of healthy' range I'd been at all my life. I had figured with all the exercise, my bp should remain stable. Wrong. Seems to be pretty directly tied to weight, at least for me.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

ZeroGravity said:


> Again, as a simplification, many people use exercise as a justification for eating/drinking but make the mistake of overestimating the calories burned and underestimating the caloric content of food (because your Bowflex said you burned 1500 calories in 20 minutes so that should be good for a Big Mac and fries)
> 
> Strictly speaking a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, at the most simple level a 100 calories from an apple is the same as a 100 calories from a piece of chocolate in terms of energy content or fruit juice is better than Coke. Yes the apple is "healthier" but it is still the same 100 calories but eating fruit all day as a healthy choice may still overload your calorie intake.


exactly. once the calories are counted, all a diet is, is finding the types of foods that make it easier for you to stick to that caloric count ie the psychological experience of satiety. for some, it will be lots of protein, for others, it could be types of carbs, vegetables etc. any diet will work at a given calorie level. how long youre able to stick with that diet is another matter altogether.
as for personal trainers, pfffft...one of the least regulated industries. in some cases all it requires is to look the part, in other cases, to be able to sell some memberships/training hours. ive been one as well  in university. it was a great way to pick up girls.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

keto said:


> Lola, exercise can help but it's certainly not fundamental. I'm a living breathing example. I lost (and kept off for a good number of years) 30 lbs being almost a total couch potato, just by managing my intake. "Abs are made in the kitchen", I don't know where that originated but I sure agree with it.
> 
> That is not meant to look down on exercise or those to do it. I recognize its merits, I just don't agree that it's necessary for weight loss/maintenance.


Your not quite understanding what I am saying . As long as you are active like walking 
Around your house, doing some gardening, shopping etc! That in itself is a form of mild excercise that keeps your BMR TICKING! Your body depends on this! A more formal excercise program will obviously boost your Metabolic rate to higher levels! 

So before you make assumptions pls read my msgs!


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

Well, lots of false information in this thread, unfortunately

As I have a M.Sc in Exercise Science, I can give a couple of tips to you guys (no, I'm not a Business-man)
I'll go over a few points that stuck

- You're the same weight as you were 30 years ago? People, especially men, start losing muscle mass at ± 30 years old. There's a good chance you've lost 10-15 lbs of muscle and gained 10-15 lbs of fat. Weight isn't everything. Body composition is as, if not more, important. Yet, you can have excess fat and still be perfectly healthy. The "metabolically healthy obese" has been a trendy research topic in the last few years.

- Don't cut out any macro-nutrient out of your diet. Your body needs proteins, is also needs fats and carbs. However, you can modify the source of carbs you're eating, as mentioned earlier.

- Don't eat when you're hungry and stop when you're full. Leptin and other satiety signals are not instantaneous. Eat small portions, wait, and eat another small portion later if you're still hungry. Furthermore, planned meals help with hunger (has to do with ghrelin, and it's a bit complicated)

- Do work out. Not only to burn calories, but to stay healthy (which is the point of it all, isn't it?). Don't just do cardio, do some resistance training. More muscle mass means better glucose utilization; it also means you'll delay sarcopenia, frailty and loss of autonomy in the old age

- A calorie is a calorie? You wish it was that simple. My main advice would be: try and cut out transformed foods; restaurants (you don't know what you're eating), frozen meals, baked goods, etc. Make your own stuff. Just get your calories from the best source possible

- Don't follow anybody's advice. One dude did this, other guy tells you to do this. Reality is, they don't know what they're talking about. Heck, don't even follow my advice: go see a nutritionist if you want to eat better and go see a kinesiologist if you want to work out.

I will answer questions if you have any though ; )


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

@Business. A calorie is a calorie. It is a unit of energy defined by the amount of energy required to raise 1g of water by 1C, regardless of where that energy comes from, equivalent to 4.1869 joules. That is the law of thermodynamics.

I'll give that different type of food are metabolized is different such that the net amount energy is different, which is the basis of why calorie counting doesn't really work and can actually work against a person who believes there are "healthy calories".


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## bluebayou (May 25, 2015)

Want to lose 10 pounds of ugly fat!????? Cut your head off!!!! Lol


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

ZeroGravity said:


> @Business. A calorie is a calorie. It is a unit of energy defined by the amount of energy required to raise 1g of water by 1C, regardless of where that energy comes from, equivalent to 4.1869 joules. That is the law of thermodynamics.
> 
> Some calories come in better "wrappers" with other nutrients but the bottom line, it is still a calorie of energy.


Click on the link I posted and read up, and that's just a Wikipedia page


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

This is turning into a shit show. 

Who cares what a fucking calorie is or is not? I don't do you?


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

Lola said:


> This is turning into a shit show.
> 
> Who cares what a fucking calorie is or is not? I don't do you?


I do


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Lola said:


> Who cares what a fucking calorie is or is not?


Your BMR does...it is defined as the rate at which your body uses energy when you are resting in order to keep vital functions going *such as breathing*.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

ZeroGravity said:


> @Business. A calorie is a calorie. It is a unit of energy defined by the amount of energy required to raise 1g of water by 1C, regardless of where that energy comes from, equivalent to 4.1869 joules. That is the law of thermodynamics.


Human bodies don’t function in the same manner as a calorimeter. We don’t burn, we metabolize via biochemical processes.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Merlin said:


> Human bodies don’t function in the same manner as a calorimeter. We don’t burn, we metabolize via biochemical processes.


Which would be a failing of the calorie content of food system to take this into account but it leads people into believing it because most won't go into the details, hell most people won't even look at calories or fat content at all. I would say that yes there are differences between specific food types but that averages out for *most* people except those who are very specific in their diet, which isn't always a good thing either (ie all proteins without carbs, all veg without proper proteins etc)


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Lola said:


> This is turning into a shit show.


Actually it hasn't.

There are some well reasoned contributions from knowledgeable people which is certainly a departure from traditional internet blather but nevertheless something that can be tried now and again.

This is actually a pretty good message board maybe because it's smaller and doesn't have the usual critical mass of loons.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

I think @Business is trying to make a fairly simple point, 500 calories from junk food is worse than 500 calories from a healthier source.

I think 2 points I would like to emphasize that others have implied or stated:
1)there are no miracle or quickie diets or solutions
2)there needs to be a lifetime commitment.


mhammer said:


> But now that I'm filling up on fluids, it would seem I'm eating less.


The exception to #1 above  a glass of water 30 minutes before meals is supposedly one of very few simple solutions that has offered long term results in studies. I believe it is mostly due to appetite suppression, but maybe metabolic digestive effects also? 



vadsy said:


> Take up smoking and cocaine, the pounds will come right off.


And once you can't smoke anymore, the COPD keeps the weight off too. Every breath is a work out.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

nm


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

jb welder said:


> I think @Business is trying to make a fairly simple point, 500 calories from junk food is worse than 500 calories from a healthier source.
> 
> I think 2 points I would like to emphasize that others have implied or stated:
> 1)there are no miracle or quickie diets or solutions
> ...


Indeed, forgot to mention that because, to me, that's a given. Any modification to your diet must last for the rest of your life. No miracle diet, just a long-term lifestyle change

And about that glass of water? Stretch receptors in the stomach send afferent signals to the brain = satiety 

If you feel like reading science


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

keto said:


> nm


I liked the GIF...your efforts were not wasted.


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

Lola said:


> As long as you are active like walking
> Around your house, doing some gardening, shopping etc! That in itself is a form of mild excercise that keeps your BMR TICKING! Your body depends on this! A more formal excercise program will obviously boost your Metabolic rate to higher levels!


I'm not sure I get what you mean by "BMR TICKING"

It's basal... it's a baseline, the minimum. You won't be boosting it up by doing exercise.
Sure, if you have a more important muscle mass, your BMR will be higher, but skeletal muscle accounts for less than 20% of the BMR, so it'd be a negligible increase.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

greco said:


> I liked the GIF...your efforts were not wasted.


It wasn't showing up on my iPad, rats, I liked it too lol


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I am just tired of too many chiefs not enough Indians!


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Lola said:


> I am just tired of too many chiefs not enough Indians!


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

Lola said:


> Sorry Greco I don't mean to sound snarky, rude or like a know it all.
> 
> You just have to know how many grams of fat, carbs and protein your body requires to function at normal capacity and take it from there!
> 
> Don't forget too that exercise plays a key fundamental component in maintaining your weight





Lola said:


> I beg to differ. Maybe you are an anomaly.





Lola said:


> I know all about it! I was a personal trainer for 15 years!
> 
> Regardless of what has been said. Walking to your car, going up and down a set of stairs, doing laundry etc is a form of extremely light exercise! Couch potatoe is doing absolutely nothing! I mean zip, zero nada.
> 
> I didn't mean formal exercise.





Lola said:


> Your not quite understanding what I am saying . As long as you are active like walking
> Around your house, doing some gardening, shopping etc! That in itself is a form of mild excercise that keeps your BMR TICKING! Your body depends on this! A more formal excercise program will obviously boost your Metabolic rate to higher levels!
> 
> So before you make assumptions pls read my msgs!





Lola said:


> This is turning into a shit show.
> 
> Who cares what a fucking calorie is or is not? I don't do you?





Lola said:


> I am just tired of too many chiefs not enough Indians!


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Lola said:


> I am just tired of too many chiefs not enough Indians!


I thought we were all (equal) "Indians" in this forum. 
Who are the "chiefs"?


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

greco said:


> I thought we were all (equal) "Indians" in this forum.
> Who are the "chiefs"?


The people who used to be personal trainers for 15 years.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

I keep reading "chiefs" as "chefs" and now I'm really hungry. Damnit.


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

Lola said:


> I am just tired of too many chiefs not enough Indians!


I don't really like when people gang up on another forum member but...

If there really needs to be a chief in this thread, it's certainly not going to be you 

I get that you're saying to yourself "Why are they arguing with me? I'm the former personal trainer, I'm an authority on this subject"

Well, sorry to break it to you, but personal trainers are only an authority on one thing, and that's Broscience, which is, to resume it in one word, garbage.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

greco said:


> I thought we were all (equal) "Indians" in this forum.
> Who are the "chiefs"?


And "Reconciliation" takes two steps back .............................


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

nkjanssen said:


> Both. He was the pilot. Crashed in the mountains. 2 full days before rescue. Actually broke his back. He fully recovered now, though. And he did honestly rave about how ripped he was when he got out. He was a pretty athletic guy to begin with. The whole experience took him down to damn-near zero body fat.
> 
> Again... it's not an easy weight-loss program, but it's a very effective one.


Pffft, that's not even remotely dangerous compared to what bodybuilders put themselves through ^)@#


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Get the corn fructose (sugar derived from corn) out of everything. Replace with natural cane sugar and everyone would be slimmer.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Business said:


> Pffft, that's not even remotely dangerous compared to what bodybuilders put themselves through ^)@#



Or Pro Cyclists for that matter. For them it is all power to weight ratio so they cut so hard they have near dangerously low body fat.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

mhammer said:


> There's exercise and there's exercise. I'm pretty much a couch potato too. But, grocery shopping at a Superstore, or going to Ikea, is a good 2km trot just to get what you need and get out. Plus, I walk to and from the bus to work 5 days a week. There's all that activity standing in the kitchen chopping vegetables, or cleaning the garage. And so on. There's lots of invisible ways to get activity without being intent on "exercising"...just like there's ways to up one's caloric intake without it feeling like meals.
> 
> *And yes, some bodies seem built for retaining heat, rather than using energy for "core temperature maintenance". There's plenty of scrawny folks who just wish they could put on some meat. Not like they're overly active or eat dramatically less. It just gets burnt off in heat*.


id add to that, theres also some ppl who just don't like to eat. I have a friend whos like that. Couldn't care less about food, no cravings, temptations etc. you have to remind him of meal times somedays or he'd forget all about it. He likes booze though. if he has one drink, he'll have 10 more. if he cant have 10, he wont have 1.
ironically, he married a hearty Italian girl who loves food. she cant stop thinking about it. even works for a food company. they pretty much lead separate lives lol.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

zerogravity, Business, I think we're getting caught up in semantics here....in terms of weight gain/loss, a calorie is a calorie. In the overall health picture, there are of course good calories and bad calories. so it depends on the context of what we're talking about. I think youre both right but looking at the topic differently.
weight loss is not equal to healthy eating . you can lose weight effectively in unhealthy ways.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Diablo said:


> id add to that, theres also some ppl who just don't like to eat. I have a friend whos like that. Couldn't care less about food, no cravings, temptations etc. you have to remind him of meal times somedays or he'd forget all about it. He likes booze though. if he has one drink, he'll have 10 more. if he cant have 10, he wont have 1.
> ironically, he married a hearty Italian girl who loves food. she cant stop thinking about it. even works for a food company. they pretty much lead separate lives lol.


Sounds like alcoholism.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

High/Deaf said:


> Calories in < calories out. Not that easy though - all the exercise in the world won't compensate for a bad diet. It's just too easy nowadays to eat way too many calories (with virtually no nutrition). So ultimately, what we put in our mouths is the biggest factor.
> 
> With exercise, I don't think about 'how many calories I've burned'. I think about 'how much better my body is at burning calories'. Covert Bailey. Train your body to be a big, fuel burning supercharged V8 instead of a little 1 litre 3 cylinder engine. That's what exercise can do.
> 
> ...


I figured it out when I ran out of money


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

butterknucket said:


> Sounds like alcoholism.


lol...well, maybe a certain kind of alcoholism. he didn't drink every day. he'd go weeks without a drink. so, not a typical addiction. but when he did drink, he drank hard. it was a binge thing.


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2017)

butterknucket said:


> Sounds like alcoholism.





Diablo said:


> lol...well, maybe a certain kind of alcoholism. he didn't drink every day. he'd go weeks without a drink. so, not a typical addiction. but when he did drink, he drank hard. it was a binge thing.


My brother was a functional alcoholic.
Skinny as a board and really only ate soup as his meals.


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

Diablo said:


> in terms of weight gain/loss, a calorie is a calorie.


That's not entirely true, as I've said earlier

Some clinical studies tend to show that the macronutrient content of a diet doesn't affect weight loss
Other clinical studies do, however, show that it does

I haven't done a full literature review on the topic, and one is needed for a clearer picture 
Another thing to consider is the food's caloric density; calorie rich foods won't stretch your stomach as much as other foods, resulting in lesser satiety


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Business said:


> That's not entirely true, as I've said earlier
> 
> Some clinical studies tend to show that the macronutrient content of a diet doesn't affect weight loss
> Other clinical studies do, however, show that it does
> ...


re: bolded, I think that's way oversimplified. It completely ignores the psychological side of satiety/cravings, as well as taste factors in satiety. theres more to hunger than just how stretched your stomach is/isnt. Brains are more complex than that. I wouldnt be surprised if that's where a lot of diets /scientists have gone wrong over the years. maybe in the case of the above, that's all well and good with normal people, but ppl that have a tendency to get fat, might not work that same way...eating past fullness, defective nutrient specific craving mechanisms, neurochemical reward mechanisms etc. it seems flawed to me to assume we all work the same way and if we all did the same things we would be the same etc.
The philosophy that hunger, satiety etc all revolves around the stomach and not the brain, is like saying that "love" is all in the heart and not the brain.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

laristotle said:


> My brother was a functional alcoholic.
> Skinny as a board and really only ate soup as his meals.


interesting. I have very little experience with alcoholism...Ive always thought it resembled smoking addiction...something that the person could not abstain from fro long periods of time, and had to have on a daily basis. I worked with a guy who was like that...he'd sneak drinks during the day...when he didn't, he'd have the shakes. the rest of the time, you wouldn't know he had been drinking(didn't have the usual drunkenness symptoms).


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

Diablo said:


> re: bolded, I think that's way oversimplified. It completely ignores the psychological side of satiety/cravings, as well as taste factors in satiety. theres more to hunger than just how stretched your stomach is/isnt. Brains are more complex than that. I wouldnt be surprised if that's where a lot of diets /scientists have gone wrong over the years. maybe in the case of the above, that's all well and good with normal people, but ppl that have a tendency to get fat, might not work that same way...eating past fullness, defective nutrient specific craving mechanisms, neurochemical reward mechanisms etc. it seems flawed to me to assume we all work the same way and if we all did the same things we would be the same etc.
> The philosophy that hunger, satiety etc all revolves around the stomach and not the brain, is like saying that "love" is all in the heart and not the brain.


Everything revolves around the brain 
It's just that the gut sends signals to the brain, and vice-versa
Stomach stretch receptors are *one *of the mechanisms involved in satiety. I've mentioned others before (leptin, ghrelin) and there are more

EDIT: Nice little review here


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Diablo said:


> lol...well, maybe a certain kind of alcoholism. he didn't drink every day. he'd go weeks without a drink. so, not a typical addiction. but when he did drink, he drank hard. it was a binge thing.


Seriously though, I've seen that before.

He probably drinks hard in private every day, but doesn't always do in front of everyone.

My best friend's mom when I was a teenager was like that. She only ate tiny amounts of soup and toast, and went to town drinking every night. I was one of the few people she drank in front of because she knew that I knew she was an alcoholic. If she was out and it only meant having one drink, she wouldn't drink at all, but would go nuts when she got home.

It's the same with obesity. Obese people will rarely eat in front of other people, or only eat a little in front of others, then eat their normal amounts in private.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

^^ not necessarily. Binge drinking is considered a form of alcoholism. I know alllll about it, believe me, and no way did I drink every day. Fortunately 10 years past that part of my life. But, like Larry's bro, there was no point in having one or two drinks. None or a gutfull, nothing inbetween.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

@Diablo I know I am being a bit pedantic but a "calorie" is a well-defined unit of energy. There is no disputing that, nor can you you dispute the potential energy content of food as measured by a calorimeter. In that respect a calorie from an apple is the same as a calorie from lard is the same as gasoline. There is only one definition of a calorie.

The measure of "healthiness" is not calories themselves, rather the macro/micro nutrients in the food. In that respect there are no healthy calories or bad calories there are nutrient-rich food and not so nutrient-rich foods which have energy content. One could equate energy density to healthiness but not valuable as as a single point of assessment as there are plenty of high-calorie nutrient-rich food and lots of low-calorie low-nutrient food (i.e diet coke)

In respect to the argument of "a calorie is calorie" (risking oversimplification again) for a given sample of food with 100 calories for instance, assuming the body is able to extract that 100 calories it is still 100 calories from a strictly energy point of view. The wrinkle comes in each food type contain things that we need or doesn't a.k.a healthy vs empty calories, and can the human body extract the same amount of net energy out of two different food type, which is the subject of other discussions and studies as @Merlin and @Business have posted. This gives rise to the discussion that just because something is labelled as 100 calories, is the net effect of consuming 100 calories, hence in that sense a calorie may not be a calorie.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## Guest (Sep 29, 2017)

nkjanssen said:


> I'm telling you... plane-crash. Don't diss' it if you haven't tried it.


It's true.
Back in '83, I wrapped my '71 Charger around a phone pole and was in traction for ~90 days.
Lost around 20 lbs.
I wouldn't recommend either though.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

nkjanssen said:


> I doubt many bodybuilders or pro cyclists go nearly six months solely on liquids.
> 
> I'm telling you... plane-crash. Don't diss' it if you haven't tried it.


I'll stick to my 50 year old dad-bod thanks.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

ZeroGravity said:


> I'll stick to my 50 year old dad-bod thanks.


Don't forget the bronzer


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

keto said:


> ^^ not necessarily. Binge drinking is considered a form of alcoholism. I know alllll about it, believe me, and no way did I drink every day. Fortunately 10 years past that part of my life. But, like Larry's bro, there was no point in having one or two drinks. None or a gutfull, nothing inbetween.


My grandfather was a big time binge drinker.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

vadsy said:


> Don't forget the bronzer


It clumps in my butt hair when I wear the leopard print thong - that should help with appetite control for a few hours


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

ZeroGravity said:


> It clumps in my butt hair when I wear the leopard print thong - that should help with appetite control for a few hours


You'll usually want to shave that butt hair when wearing thongs, just sayin'


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

it get's so itchy


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## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

Try Brazilian


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

nkjanssen said:


> I'm telling you... plane-crash. Don't diss' it if you haven't tried it.


Yes, well no one has mentioned that other miracle diet yet either, worms. 
It's all natural!


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