# My Search For The Best Acoustic Guitar Under $1800



## Guncho

Feel like sharing and a question at the end.

For the last 12 years I've only owned one acoustic guitar. A Yamaha 441S with a solid spruce top and ovangkol back and sides. I bought it on ebay for like $300. I was very happy with this guitar and played it all the time at home, around campfires, etc. Recently I started going to a "folk jam" where there are a bunch of guitar players, fiddle players, piano etc and I found that my guitar just didn't cut through at all. So I started thinking that maybe it's time for a serious upgrade. I started thinking about how I could come up with some money to buy a new acoustic and decided to sell the last remnants of my band playing days. So I sold my Gibson Les Paul Studio, Fender Blues Jr and most of my pedals to a buddy for a fair price and started doing research and going to guitar stores. I have no plans to ever play on stage again so don't care about pickups and hate cutaways on acoustics. I also like saving money so buying used is Plan A. I'm also a big fan of the classics. Martin, Gibson, etc.

The first time I brought my Yamaha to the guitar store the strangest thing happened. I picked up a Martin D-18 and immediately thought, "Hey! That sounds exactly like my guitar!" Then I picked up my guitar and it sounded nothing like that. It sounded awful. Funny how you can get used to something and think it sounds great.

I quickly narrowed my search down to:
Gibson J-15
Gibson J-35
Gibson J-45
Gibson Hummingbird
Larrivee D-05
Martin D-15M
Martin D-16RGT
Martin D-16GT
Martin D-18
Martin D-28
Martin D-35
Taylor 310
Taylor 320

After a few trips to Steve's and Long and McQuade by myself and with a guitar playing friend we ranked each guitar out of 5 and here are our results.

5.00 Martin D-18 A little more punchy than wide sounding but a good balance. Bass is there when you want it but not overpowering.
4.50 Martin D-28 More wide than punchy. A little too much bass.
4.50 Martin D-35 More wide than punchy. A little too much bass
4.00 Gibson J-45 Wide and a little muted sounding.
3.75 Martin D-15M All wide, no punchy.
3.25 Gibson J-15 All punchy, no wide.
3.00 Martin D-16RGT Middy and frappy.
3.00 Gibson Hummingbird Weak sounding
2.75 Taylor 310 Sounds like a plastic toy
2.50 Larrivee D-05 The high E string kept slipping over the edge of the fretboard. Frappy sounding when stummed hard.
2.50 My Yamaha 441S

Disqualified
Gibson J-35 Hated the small plastic tuners.

Haven't tried yet
Martin D-16GT
Taylor 320

What I learned from all this is that I prefer mahogany back and sides over rosewood. Rosewood has too much bass. For me at least.

So now I'm just watching Kijiji like a hawk for a D-18 but they don't seem to come up very often. I figure I can get one used for around $1700. There's a D-35 on Kijiji for $1600 that was very tempting but I'm holding out. For a while at least. Going to try the Martin D-16GT tonight and that would be awesome if it is comparable to the D-18.

Anything else I should consider that is readily available in Canada for under $1800 used or any other advice?


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## Tone Chaser

Sounds like you have done some homework. Don't you think different sets of strings might alter your thoughts on the guitars you have tested? 

Good luck with your quest.


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## Guncho

Entirely possible but how would I test that? I don't think the guitar store is going to change strings on a brand new guitar for me just so I can try them.


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## Steadfastly

If you're going to spend that kind of money and they won't change guitar strings for you, you are shopping at the wrong guitar store.


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## Guncho

So in your experience you could walk into a music store go up to the counter and ask the guy to change strings on ten guitars right then and there so you can compare them all and they would?


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## dradlin

A few comments relating to buying an acoustic guitar...

Many people try a bunch of guitars and set their focus on one because "it plays great"... don't overlook a great guitar because it happens to have a poor setup.

Onboard electronics fail in time, and you won't find a replacement that fits the hole cut in the side of the guitar 10 or 20 years from now... in you need a pickup, choose a model with an end pin preamp for which replacements will always be available.

With a proper action setup, be sure that there is a healthy amount of saddle exposed out of the saddle slot... You don't want to end up with a guitar with an under-set neck and need a neck reset in a few short years.

Be sure the guitar has a serviceable neck joint so that the neck can be reset.

If I was shopping for an acoustic guitar these days, I'd buy nothing but a Taylor... the warranty, product support, and serviceability is unmatched. The Taylor neck joint design is a thing of beauty, and because it services so well the guitar can always play well.

Stay away from Takamine, Yamaha, Epiphone, Godin (Seagull, Norman, A&L, S&P) and any others with permanent neck joints.

Choose a guitar appropriate to the style of music that you play... don't flat pick on an OM and judge it bright, and don't play finger style on a dreadnought and call it dull... play fingerstyle on the OM and flat pick on the dreadnaught and appreciate them each for what they are intended.


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## Guncho

How do you determine if a guitar has a serviceable neck joint?

I wanted to like the Taylor but it just had a weird bright jangly almost fake sounding tone. To me at least.

Kindof like here 
[video]https://youtu.be/Mt6HoqpaMFU?t=3m37s[/video]


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## Steadfastly

Guncho said:


> So in your experience you could walk into a music store go up to the counter and ask the guy to change strings on ten guitars right then and there so you can compare them all and they would?


I don't know about ten but if you can show them you are serious they should do at least a few for you. They are only paying a very small amount for them. Remember they are buying in bulk so to spend a few dollars on strings to sell an $1800.00 guitar is only good economic sense. 

Also, you are going to ask for a discount of their asking price. If they want to be cheap about it, they can discount the discount by the amount of the cost of the strings. If I was the manager of the store, I wouldn't think twice about it if I thought the customer was serious.


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## Guncho

I don't know. I've been playing guitar for 24 years. I've played lots of guitars new and old. I would like to think that I can get a good sense of how a guitar sounds regardless of what strings are on it. Also on two brand new guitars, is there really going to be a huge difference between say Martin strings and Gibson strings?


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## Guncho

Here's a question for you guys.

When examining a used acoustic, will it be pretty obvious if it has some serious issue that would be a dealbreaker?

I can do my own basic setups. I can't do neck resets or fret work but truss rods don't scare me.

Would it be unusual or unreasonable to suggest to a private seller that we have a guitar inspected (at my cost) by a luthier first or is that probably unnecessary.

Obviously I would be able to tell if there were cracks in the body, headstock, etc.

Looking online it seems like the only repair that would be over say $150 would be a neck reset at like $300.

How do you tell if a guitar needs a neck reset? Just really bad action that can't be fixed via the nut or saddle?


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## GWN!

Steadfastly said:


> If you're going to spend that kind of money and they won't change guitar strings for you, you are shopping at the wrong guitar store.


You did notice that he said that is Plan A is to buy used. So he is just using the store to kick the tires. Most of the guitars on his list are over his budget if bought new.


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## dradlin

Guncho said:


> How do you determine if a guitar has a serviceable neck joint?
> 
> I wanted to like the Taylor but it just had a weird bright jangly almost fake sounding tone. To me at least.
> 
> Kindof like here
> [video]https://youtu.be/Mt6HoqpaMFU?t=3m37s[/video]


The sales person likely won't know, so don't expect much from them.

Martin, Gibson, Larivee, Taylor have serviceable neck joints. You can expect to pay over $500 for a neck reset on a Martin, Gibson, Larivee, or under $100 on a Taylor.

The video link compares one Martin to one Taylor, so conclusions can't be extrapolated to all Martin or Taylor guitars... that's why trying many is key. 

Out of the two in the video the Taylor would cut through a mix more than the Martin. So consider whether the guitar is for solo or band play, and factor that in your decision too.

There is no categorical good or bad, it's what is good for you that matters...


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## cbg1

Guncho said:


> Here's a question for you guys.
> 
> 
> How do you tell if a guitar needs a neck reset? Just really bad action that can't be fixed via the nut or saddle?


sight down the fretboard from the headstock......in a perfect world the top of the fretboard will line up with the top of the bridge..........this will allow the saddle to do the job of raising the strings to set the action height.....and as well provide a strong break angle of the strings over the saddle to the bridge pins.....and a good transfer of string energy to drive the top.

hope this makes some sense

cheers
ets


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## Guncho

dradlin said:


> The sales person likely won't know, so don't expect much from them.
> 
> Martin, Gibson, Larivee, Taylor have serviceable neck joints. You can expect to pay over $500 for a neck reset on a Martin, Gibson, Larivee, or under $100 on a Taylor.
> 
> The video link compares one Martin to one Taylor, so conclusions can't be extrapolated to all Martin or Taylor guitars... that's why trying many is key.
> 
> Out of the two in the video the Taylor would cut through a mix more than the Martin. So consider whether the guitar is for solo or band play, and factor that in your decision too.
> 
> There is no categorical good or bad, it's what is good for you that matters...


That's the only Taylor dreadnaught in my price range with a spruce top and the D-18 is my #1 pick so far so I felt it was a good comparison.

The guitar is for playing at home by myself, around the campfire by myself or with another guitarist and occasionally a folk jam with 2-6 guitars, 2-3 ukes, 1-2 violins and a piano.

- - - Updated - - -



cbg1 said:


> sight down the fretboard from the headstock......in a perfect world the top of the fretboard will line up with the top of the bridge..........this will allow the saddle to do the job of raising the strings to set the action height.....and as well provide a strong break angle of the strings over the saddle to the bridge pins.....and a good transfer of string energy to drive the top.
> 
> hope this makes some sense
> 
> cheers
> ets


It does and is appreciated.

Another technique I just read about was to slide a long ruler down the fretboard and it should end at the top of the bridge. If it hits the guitar body first, that's bad.


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## cbg1

Guncho said:


> That's the only Taylor dreadnaught in my price range with a spruce top and the D-18 is my #1 pick so far so I felt it was a good comparison.
> 
> The guitar is for playing at home by myself, around the campfire by myself or with another guitarist and occasionally a folk jam with 2-6 guitars, 2-3 ukes, 1-2 violins and a piano.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> It does and is appreciated.
> 
> Another technique I just read about was to slide a long ruler down the fretboard and it should end at the top of the bridge. If it hits the guitar body first, that's bad.


i believe that your quest began when you found that your guitar was not "cutting through" at a "jam session" ......with the number of players you mention that is quite an acoustic force to deal with.........especially if some of the players are "enthusiastic"....................what gauge of strings and what thickness of pick do you usually use?


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## Steadfastly

GWN! said:


> You did notice that he said that is Plan A is to buy used. So he is just using the store to kick the tires. Most of the guitars on his list are over his budget if bought new.


I thought he was still buying from a store. That's why I qualified my comment by saying I would have to be quite sure the person was serious before he could expect someone to do it.


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## BMW-KTM

I'm a Taylor guy through and through. They're not all awesome but most of them above $2K are. That weird jangly almost fake sound is very real, not fake and it's the very sound my ears have always longed for my whole life long. Now that I have a couple of Taylors I won't need to search any longer.

My 2 cents


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## dradlin

Guncho said:


> Another technique I just read about was to slide a long ruler down the fretboard and it should end at the top of the bridge. If it hits the guitar body first, that's bad.


Ideally the straight edge should not hit the bridge, it should clear the top of the bridge by about 1/32".


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## Guncho

cbg1 said:


> i believe that your quest began when you found that your guitar was not "cutting through" at a "jam session" ......with the number of players you mention that is quite an acoustic force to deal with.........especially if some of the players are "enthusiastic"....................what gauge of strings and what thickness of pick do you usually use?


I play lights and was using a .60 pick but have switched to a .88 pick which has helped. Not a big fan of heavier strings.

- - - Updated - - -

Back to L & M tonight to try the Martin D-16GT. Was not impressed. I gave it a 3/5 rating.

I also downgraded the Martin D-35 from a 4.50 to a 4.00.

So #1 Martin D-18, #2 Martin D-28.


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## Guncho

Here's a home recording of me playing my Yamaha on the left and my buddy playing his Taylor on the right.

https://soundcloud.com/guncho/yamaha-vs-taylor

Here's me doing a solo on my Yamaha.
https://soundcloud.com/guncho/yamaha-solo


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## cbg1

Guncho said:


> I play lights and was using a .60 pick but have switched to a .88 pick which has helped. Not a big fan of heavier strings.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> Back to L & M tonight to try the Martin D-16GT. Was not impressed. I gave it a 3/5 rating.
> 
> I also downgraded the Martin D-35 from a 4.50 to a 4.00.
> 
> So #1 Martin D-18, #2 Martin D-28.


some medium gauge phosphor bronze strings would be my first suggestion.........it will probably take you some time to get used to them but the improvement in tone and volume will be worth it.....a truss rod tweak and some nut saddle work may be required. 
i would also suggest that you check the guitars in your jam group that are cutting through the mix to see what makes them tick..............perhaps get that person to play your guitar so you can hear it from the other side of the sound hole. 

good sounds on your soundcloud page by the way, some nice vocals


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## Guncho

cbg1 said:


> some medium gauge phosphor bronze strings would be my first suggestion.........it will probably take you some time to get used to them but the improvement in tone and volume will be worth it.....a truss rod tweak and some nut saddle work may be required.
> i would also suggest that you check the guitars in your jam group that are cutting through the mix to see what makes them tick..............perhaps get that person to play your guitar so you can hear it from the other side of the sound hole.
> 
> good sounds on your soundcloud page by the way, some nice vocals


It's something to think about. It just kills my hands as I'm so used to lights.

Thanks! It's amazing what you can do these days with a home pc and minimal gear.


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## Guncho

I think I'm in love with the 2012 Martin D-18 and nothing will ever compare. I love the new D-18 design with the airy balanced sound from the mahogany back/sides and the forward shifted scalloped bracing. Only problem is I can't afford a new one and they don't seem too plentiful on the used market.


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## bagpipe

If the D18 is the sound you crave, then you shouldn't settle for anything else. You'll just be thinking "I wish I'd held out and kept saving". Hopefully you'll find a used one. Do you check the Classified listing at the Acoustic Guitar Forum?:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17

Also lots of top quality used guitars on the Mandolin Cafe forum:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi


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## Guncho

Both those sites are pretty US centric no?

Shipping and duty would be astronomical.

Also can't see buying an $1800 guitar site unseen.


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## ed2000

Did you check the Tundra store in Hamilton for used or consignment instruments. The prices, though, tend to be on the optimistic scale.


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## Steadfastly

Guncho said:


> Both those sites are pretty US centric no?
> 
> Shipping and duty would be astronomical.
> 
> Also can't see buying an $1800 guitar site unseen.


There is no duty. Shipping can be a killer, though and I would not buy a used acoustic sight unseen and unplayed.


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## Guncho

ed2000 said:


> Did you check the Tundra store in Hamilton for used or consignment instruments. The prices, though, tend to be on the optimistic scale.


I've been watching their website. Apparently they have three used acoustic guitars in total at all of their stores? Maybe I should call. Any other stores that might have a used D-18? 

Websitewise I'm watching:
Capsule
Guitar World
Junction Guitars
Paul's Boutique
The Twelth Fret

- - - Updated - - -



Steadfastly said:


> There is no duty. Shipping can be a killer, though and I would not buy a used acoustic sight unseen and unplayed.


Don't you pay HST?

If I buy a used guitar off some guy on Kijiji I pay the price of the guitar and that's it. If I bought one off some guy in the states and had it shipped to Canada I would pay, the price of the guitar + shipping + HST.

No?


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## Guncho

I tried a used D-28 last night and it was a tough call but I opted to hold out for a D-18.

The D-28 sounded very full but there's just too much bass. I found myself picking closer and closer to the bridge to get some "zing".

Also I noticed a slight bulge behind the bridge and the bridge itself seemed to be tilted towards the headstock. It didn't seem to affect playbility but for my first "high end" acoustic, that makes me nervous.

I tried the ruler test, sliding it down the frets towards the bridge and instead of clearing it, it was hitting it.


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## Steadfastly

Guncho said:


> I've been watching their website. Apparently they have three used acoustic guitars in total at all of their stores? Maybe I should call. Any other stores that might have a used D-18?
> 
> Websitewise I'm watching:
> Capsule
> Guitar World
> Junction Guitars
> Paul's Boutique
> The Twelth Fret
> 
> - - - Updated - - -
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you pay HST?
> 
> If I buy a used guitar off some guy on Kijiji I pay the price of the guitar and that's it. If I bought one off some guy in the states and had it shipped to Canada I would pay, the price of the guitar + shipping + HST.
> 
> No?


Yes, you would. The only way you would get away from that is if you were there long enough to have an exemption to cover that much value.


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## knight_yyz

I just switch to john Pearse slightly lights and I love them over the stock strings that come with the guitar.


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## Guncho

Went back to L&M today to see if there was anything under $2000 that compared with the Martin D-18. Nope.  The new D-18 has this chimey 12-string quality that I just didn't hear on any other guitars.

Was seriously impressed with the Yamaha FG700S though. For an under $300 guitar it sounded fantastic.

https://www.long-mcquade.com/10360/Guitars/Acoustic/Yamaha/FG700S_-_Spruce_Top_with_Gloss.htm


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## Blue Velvet

Guncho said:


> Went back to L&M today to see if there was anything under $2000 that compared with the Martin D-18. Nope. The new D-18 has this chimey 12-string quality that I just didn't hear on any other guitars.
> 
> Was seriously impressed with the Yamaha FG700S though. For an under $300 guitar it sounded fantastic.
> 
> https://www.long-mcquade.com/10360/Guitars/Acoustic/Yamaha/FG700S_-_Spruce_Top_with_Gloss.htm


For the money this is a great guitar.


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## 59burst

You might also check craigslist in addition to Kijiji. I saw this Hummingbird on the Toronto craigslist, but didn't see it on Kijiji:

http://toronto.craigslist.ca/tor/msg/5116189506.html

Good luck! Keep us posted!


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## Guncho

There's a D-18GE on Kijiji that I was seriously considering buying but I went to L & M and tried an HD-28V with the modified V neck and I did not like it all. Felt weird and uncomfortable.

The seller is a super nice guy and told me about how he buys guitars from US message boards like Acoustic Guitar Forum and has them shipped to one of those places just across the border that charges you like $6 a package. The one I registered with (CBI) gives you unlimited storage but encourages you to pick up within 90 days.

I was aware of people doing this from the get go but couldn't imagine buying a $2000 guitar without inspecting it but at this point if I'm holding out for a "2012" D-18 I don't think I have much choice. I've been watching Kijiji for all of Canada, Craigslist and every guitar store's website from London to Kingston for a while and have seen exactly 0 of this specific model.

I think I'll just be careful and obviously don't buy from someone if it's their first post.

Hopefully will get one in the next few weeks as we are going to the states for a few days which would give me some relief from duty.


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## Guncho

Update!

Looking at the US message boards made me realize that I'm not going to get a guitar that is no older than 3 years and retails for $2819 for $1900 so I upped my budget to $2200.

As I had upped my budget I went back through Kijiji and looked at every province. I noticed a 2014 Martin D-18E Retro in BC with an asking price of $2275. I had seen this before but at the time it was over my budget. The D-18E Retro is basically the same guitar as the new D-18 but with a fancy pickup, a built in tuner, a strap button on the heel, a Tusq saddle instead of bone and the nut width is 1-3/4" as opposed to 1-11/16". I don't really care about the pickup but a built in tuner and a strap button on the heel will come in handy. I contacted the seller and asked him if he would ship to Ontario for $2200, he countered with $2250. Initially I wanted to go through paypal for the protection but he had no idea how to use that and it would cost him approx $80. He gave me a lot of info about himself and I spoke to him on the phone. Felt confident he could be trusted so I used interac e transfer to send him the money. He didn't know much about shipping guitars so I sent some links with packing instructions.

Fingers are crossed it all works out.


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## Guncho

Yikes Canada Post just left the guitar on my porch as no one was home. Luckily my wife was home not long after but still! Guess it was shipped as "No signature required". Probably not a good idea.

Now to wait the brutal 24 hours without opening it as per Martin.


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## GWN!

Guncho said:


> Now to wait the brutal 24 hours without opening it as per Martin.


Why? I can see doing that if your guitar has been subjected to freezing temperature so that the internal temperature gets back down to normal. But I don't see the need in summertime. 

Where does it say in the Martin guide not to open for 24 hours. But it is your guitar and your free to do what you want.


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## Guncho

Hmm maybe your right. What about humidity? The guitar has been in transit from BC since the 16th. My house is nice and air conditioned with low humidity.

By the time I get home it will have been about eight hours since it arrived.


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## GWN!

Guncho said:


> Hmm maybe your right. What about humidity? The guitar has been in transit from BC since the 16th. My house is nice and air conditioned with low humidity.
> 
> By the time I get home it will have been about eight hours since it arrived.



Are you going to put it outside in the case for 24 hours everytime you want to bring it from your air-conditioned house to your deck to play? Enjoy your guitar. I would want to see any shipment damage as soon as possible so I can get back to seller.


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## Guncho

Yeah I unboxed it and played the hell out of it! Sounds great. Super happy!

Does anyone want a free box and padding for shipping a guitar?


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## GWN!

Looks nice, Congrats.


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## ed2000

Enjoy your new Martin every day. Does it sound as good as you anticipated?


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## Guncho

It sounds fantastic. I think there might be extra light strings on it as it doesn't have as much ommph but I will remedy that shortly.

It does have a lot more circuit board type stuff insidefor the fancy imaging pickup than I wasn't expecting but it's nice to have a built in tuner.


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## skilsaw

Guncho said:


> I wanted to like the Taylor but it just had a weird bright jangly almost fake sounding tone.


That's because they are made to sound like Taylor Swift.
She must be doing something right. All that money and fame for such a young artist.


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