# Looking for second opinions regarding the build quality of my amp



## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

This week a capacitor failed in my Chute CC-02 amp. The amp was built new for me by Carl Chute in 2010.

I snapped a few gut shots and looked to TGP for some opinions about caps failing.

To my surprise, what I got in response was quite a few people commenting rather harshly about the build quality of the amp.

I was rather shocked, as it was built here in Canada by hand, and it cost me quite a fair bit of money. I had always assumed/trusted that it was a high quality build.

Some might say that TGP has a reputation for being a bit of an extreme place with some strong/over-the-top personalities, and I'm wondering if the level headed folk over here agree or not with TGPs assessment of the amp.

If it is true that the amp would significantly benefit from being rebuilt by and expert, I'd welcome any suggestions as to whom I could take it (preferably within driving distance of Toronto).

Here's a link to the thread on TGP: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1268144


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Some interesting comments for sure


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

I don't want to comment too harshly about the build, but there are some issues. Some of them serious.
A couple of things need to be checked. The voltage where that blown cap is needs to be verified. When tubes are cold and first fired up, the power supply will be high. It's short term until the tubes start to conduct, but it may exceed the value of that cap for a short period. That may be enough to stress it. That definitely needs looking at.
I also see a resistor on pin 4 (screen grid) on the right hand 6V6 socket that is badly burnt. That usually indicates a bad tube.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Sorry, but it's pretty scary-looking.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

I'm defintely not an amp expert but is it possible that he had a student assemble this build as a project and some how it was mistakenly sent to you? I would get in contact with the builder and have a polite but frank discussion.


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## krall (Apr 19, 2009)

Showed this to a friend who builds amp..He said quite a few technical things I don't understand (that were negative), he then just shook his head..I'd consider returning it and getting your money back if you can.


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## J-75 (Jul 29, 2010)

The workmanship is terrible, IMHO - very sloppy joins on the tube sockets, inconsistent application of solder, and... what's with that metallic tape? - When it comes loose from drying out & heat, it's a ticking time-bomb. Very amateur work.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Seems odd though. Chute has been around for some time and there is no way he would still be in business at that rate


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

One thing we can all agree on - its definitely hand-wired! ! 

Did you contact the builder with your concerns? Ask him if that's what the insides of all his amps look like. According to his website there's a 5 year warranty on new amps. I wouldn't even consider having it rebuilt by someone else if you bought it new in 2010.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

He actually has a good reputation so that is why I posed the question earlier whether it's possible he is training students or apprentices and this somehow bypassed quality control. Quite frankly, I could do a better job on an amp and I'm basically useless. At least I know how to solder.


GuitarsCanada said:


> Seems odd though. Chute has been around for some time and there is no way he would still be in business at that rate


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

As I mentioned, Carl Chute is a friend of a friend, and I thought I could trust him. I contacted Carl alerting him to the concerns mentioned on TGP. It appears he's not interested in defending his work, or helping me with the repair. Basically, he's blowing me off. 

Here's my message to Carl:

*Hey Carl,
As you know, I visit TGP regularly and usually ask my gear related questions on there. I decided this morning to post about the capacitor failure to get any opinions on how I should proceed. I posted the oscillation vid and some amp gut shots.

The response has been that a few TGPers have criticized your build quality and choice of components.

At first I thought I best not mention the thread to you, but upon reconsideration, I figure I should at least give you the chance to defend yourself.

I didn't mean for the thread to be a dick-move on my part. I just assumed everything was cool inside the amp. It's not uncommon for users to post guts of amps and pedals. I honestly didn't mean to cause you a disservice. Sorry for that.

*_*Here's the thread:http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1268144*

_And here's his response:

_*Lol I don't need to defend myself. The capacitor failure has nothing to do with the wiring aesthetics. I'm sure one of these experts can guide you through the replacement cheers*

_I'm not sure how to proceed at this point. I haven't written back to Carl, I almost don't know what to say. I'm as shocked by his response as I am to the reviews of his build quality.

When I bought the amp, I assumed/trusted it was a high quality build. At this point I feel completely ripped off.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

It would be interesting to compare the pics of the inside of your Chute amp with pics of another Chute amp...if any other GC forum member that owns one would consider doing that.

Mr. Chute's response certainly is shocking (and VERY disappointing, IMHO)...especially for a man in (assumedly, a sole proprietorship) business and with a reputation that I'm sure he would like to maintain.

Cheers

Dave


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## krall (Apr 19, 2009)

Clean Channel said:


> _Lol I don't need to defend myself. The capacitor failure has nothing to do with the wiring aesthetics. I'm sure one of these experts can guide you through the replacement cheers
> _


With a response like that, I feel that he's saying "so what, it is what it is..Deal with it."..Totally unprofessional..I'm glad I saw this thread, I will never, ever get a Chute amp.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Ask him if you can send a few zip ties his way so he doesn't have to use duct or foil tape in the future. Seriously, foil tape? This guy is an electrical engineer? At this point I'm pissed off! Is this what you get when trying to support the small boutique builder? Bullshit!! Get off your ass, fix your mistakes and apologize. He needs to look over a few YouTube clips where a guy walks amateurs through building a kit amp in a condensed 4 to 7 minutes, Chute's build quality might improve. The guy is a tit.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

There are a couple of places were things seem "jerry rigged" but the build doesn't seem bad. The wires are over the board which gives it a sloppy look. I like doing it that way because you can see where the wires are going and troubleshooting doesn't require taking off the board. People do expect a certain look I guess.

The filter in question is positioned were it is because it seems to be filterting the first 12ax7. Good filtering practice actually. Most classic desings stop fitering a little bit after the Phase Inverter. And if it is filtering the 12ax7 (pretty sure) 350V is fine in this application. Preamp tubes usually see anywhere from 150 to 300V (first stage usually sees the former). The burnt resistor (looks to be a little charred doesn't it - good eye) is a screen resistor. Pretty important resistor and should be replaced.

I can't see up close so solder joints may be bad. Contact the builder and see what he has to say.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

I now see Chute's response. Interesting. He's right - in a way: the lead dress has nothing to do with the cap failure - these things do happen. His reaction to the critisism is disapointing though isn't it?

A little unsolicited advice? Don't go to TGP with advice about things. Lots of frustrated/failed musicians/builders with nothing better to do. I mean really, some of the responses were somewhat helpful but it was mostly a witch hunt which is what these things usually turn into.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

I laughed at many if the funny comments. 

I compare it to steve Moratto's work as be builds all my custom builds. The points that are aforementioned above are true. It would cost you a small% of your purchase peoce to bring this amp to its full safety and durability situation. 

Lmk if your in Toronto and you want Steve's number. He has the fastest turn around dime in TO / GTA.


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

krall said:


> With a response like that, I feel that he's saying "so what, it is what it is..Deal with it."..Totally unprofessional..I'm glad I saw this thread, I will never, ever get a Chute amp.


Agreed and that sucks. I usually bend over backwards to make sure my customers are always 100% satisfied. 

Personally, I find the gut shot of the amp revealing of amateurish work. That sucks and it doesn't mean the amp is bad. fix up the things that need fixing and enjoy the amp.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Clean Channel said:


> As I mentioned, Carl Chute is a friend of a friend, and I thought I could trust him. I contacted Carl alerting him to the concerns mentioned on TGP. It appears he's not interested in defending his work, or helping me with the repair. Basically, he's blowing me off.
> 
> Here's my message to Carl:
> 
> ...


He does lousy work and blows you off? Class act.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

krall said:


> Showed this to a friend who builds amp..He said quite a few technical things I don't understand (that were negative), he then just shook his head..I'd consider returning it and getting your money back if you can.


 Agreed.
I would ask for a refund.It looks like the builder was in a bit of a hurry, some pretty obvious things left unfinished.
Not a good way to sell an amp and expect future orders from glowing reviews.
At first glance,one would think that the bulider didn't take much pride in his creations.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

If I had issues with the amp I wold have gone straight to the builder for service, not to cork sniffers anonymous for armchair quarterback criticisms.

Yes, the builder's reaction is a bit less than professional but I'd be a bit unhappy of I were him as well.

Does the amp sound good? Can the issues be corrected easily?

I think it's a damaged relationship now.


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

Milkman said:


> If I had issues with the amp I wold have gone straight to the builder for service, not to cork sniffers anonymous for armchair quarterback criticisms.
> 
> Yes, the builder's reaction is a bit less than professional but I'd be a bit unhappy of I were him as well.
> 
> ...


I agree the relationship is damaged. 

However, my original thread had nothing to do with looking for online criticisms. I simply wanted to know more about capacitor failure. I had the gut shots already taken, and thought they would be helpful.

I had no idea that my thread would result in a flood of criticism towards the quality of the build.

Had I not posted on TGP and here, I would have never understood the full extent of the problems with this amp, so I'm glad I did!

People say the folk on TGP can be too critical, but the response here as been as bad, if not worse.

Yes, the amp sounds great. I'd love to continue using it. 

Can it be corrected easily? I'm not really sure, that's not my area of expertise.


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

Cups said:


> I now see Chute's response. Interesting. He's right - in a way: the lead dress has nothing to do with the cap failure.


Keep in mind, I didn't, nor did anyone else ever say the lead dress was the cause for the cap failure. All of the criticisms were above and beyond the initial malfunction.

When I messaged Chute about the thread, I was hoping he would address some of the other concerns people were having with the build.


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

Also, I did go to Chute first. He's the one who told me he thought a cap had failed. He asked me to take apart the amp (which I had never done before) and take pictures to send him.

I simply thought that, while I was at it, I could learn a thing or two from the folks on TGP. 

Carl and I have a mutual close friend, and we've always been casual and friendly with each other. All of our messages were cordial and unremarkable until I told him I started the thread and had suddenly received all of these negative comments.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm sorry if my post sounded too critical. I just think had you sent the pics to the builder and worked with him without also going to TGP it would have turned out better.

I'm not excusing the response you received because it's really not the right one for the builder to have given IMO.

I just think the builder may have taken it a little personally and the results are what they are.


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

Despite Chute's reaction, I still believe posting on the forums was the right decision. 

Sure, had I not, Chute would have likely replaced the failed capacitor. However, I would have continued to depend on the amp oblivious to the poor quality of the workmanship. 

This way, I can now seek out someone capable of not only replacing the one failed cap, but who can replace all of the others as well, and meanwhile hopefully attempt to rectify the some or all of the other problems from which the amp suffers. 

To be honest, knowing what I know now, I wouldn't trust Chute with the repair, even if he were willing to do it. 

I'm positive that no matter how I had handled it, at no point would Chute have granted me an all out refund, so that's out of the question.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Clean Channel said:


> Despite Chute's reaction, I still believe posting on the forums was the right decision.


I agree completely. There was no malicious intent in your posting. Hopefully, the number of things that need to be replaced and "altered/adjusted" are not that many/significant and you can be back enjoying the amp without too much cost involved.

Please keep us updated.

Cheers

Dave


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

Sorry to take so long report back on the amp. I had it fixed back on Monday May 27th, and it's been working perfectly and sounding great ever since!

I received several unsolicited recommendations from members on Guitars Canada that I take it to a tech in Toronto named Steve Moratto. Aside from being an amp tech he also does his own custom builds, which are absolutely beautiful, point-to-point creations!

To give you a peek at the kind of stuff he does, I snapped these quick pics of one he had just finished. Sorry for the low quality, I only had my cell phone with me, but you can still clearly make out the PTP build, with all of the components suspended and nicely organized!

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/minorninth/Chute CC-02 gut pics/IMG-20130529-00521.jpg


http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/minorninth/Chute CC-02 gut pics/IMG-20130529-00522.jpg


http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h256/minorninth/Chute CC-02 gut pics/IMG-20130529-00523.jpg

When I called Steve, it turned out he already had plans to be in my area for a house call with of his other clients. Afterwards he dropped by my place and was able to identify several problems immediately. He decided to take the amp home, and amazingly, completed all of the work that very same night! I actually had my amp back the next morning!

I've come to learn that Steve is an incredibly knowledgeable guy, and is intimately familiar with a wide range of vintage and traditional circuits. He's obsessively picky about build quality etc., as you can see from the above pics.

After looking at the amp back at his bench, he gave me a call explaining the amp had a few things that he'd like to improve. Here's a list (as best as I can describe them) of his comments and the work he did:

-After figuring out how everything worked, he said the amp is very similar a stock mid-70s Marshall circuit. As such, he was going to embrace that design by incorporating some more Marshall-esque components.
-The amp had a 400 ohm resistor, which was running the 6V6s very cold, he changed it to a 270 ohm resistor. He said 250 ohm is standard for a cathode biased amp.
-He completely removed the effects loop, as he explained it was only a passive effects loop and was pretty much useless in this circuit. He explained, to work properly it would need to be a buffered loop like you find in a Marshall Jubilee for example. Being passive, the signal from the pedals was not sufficient to feed the power section of the amp. He said he could have built in an entire buffered loop, but it would have taken a lot of time and would have been hard to fit. He said, if I don't use the loop (which I don't) there's no point in spending a lot of money having it done properly.
-He (obviously) completely removed the useless power out that Chute had attempted to build into the circuit. 
-The amp had been grounded through the cathode, so he added 100 ohm filaments instead.
-Replaced all caps
-Added a carbon comp resistor to the power supply stage. This filters out the high end when cranked, and is more in line with a Marshall circuit.
-Added carbon comps to each power tube
-Changed it so that there's negative feedback at the power stage, which again embraces the Marshall-style design. However, he used a brownface style inverter because the amp runs 6V6 tubes, which would be over saturated in a truly Marshall circuit.
-Of course, he removed all of the duct tape and foil, and added proper ties. He cleaned up the wiring as best as he could without spending an entire week on it. The whole thing is much more organized now.

One other problem he identified in our conversation was the frequency with which I was burning through power tubes. I would have a pair fail every six months, like clockwork, since I've had the amp. I just assumed it was because I run the amp so frequently, but he said that didn't sound right, especially when I told him the same thing happened with a pair of NOS Jan Phillips tubes. 

He discovered that the screen grid was being run at a higher voltage than the plate, whereas it should be the other way around, and he suspects that's what was causing the shortened power tube life. He's adjusted it to run the tubes as they should, so I'm looking forward to see how long they will last this time.

So long story story short, Steve Moratto was able to fix the amp up beautifully! He's confident it should work with no problems for a good long time now. 

Thanks everyone for the input and recommendations!


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Glad to see this worked out for you. Unfortunate that it cost you more than the original amount spent but at least it's now where you want it to be


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Glad to see this worked out for you. Unfortunate that it cost you more than the original amount spent but at least it's now where you want it to be


Actually, I should have mentioned, Steve really sympathized with my situation and offered me a one-time _significant_ discount on his bench fee. In return I couldn't help but tip him above the amount he invoiced me. Even with the tip, I know it would have cost me a lot more had I taken it somewhere else, so again, Steve completely saved the day!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks for the update. Very detailed and informative read. 

Great that you were able to find someone that could repair the amp quickly and that you have confidence in.

Cheers

Dave


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

Great to hear. Steve has never let me down. So how does it sound? Any differences?


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

At lower volumes it's very similar to before, although a smidge darker. The amp actually runs two parallel preamps, one bright and one dark, which are blended together via two separate gain controls. This means dialing the amp in just the way I like is still easy to do. Keep in mind, despite the problems identified with the build, I've always loved the tone of the amp, so am glad I'm able to make it sound the same as before. It's also worth noting I typically run the amp clean or a bit compressed in the preamp, and use pedals for dirt.

The more noticeable tonal differences happen at higher volumes. Steve tweaked it so there's a bit more headroom (which I prefer since I usually run clean), and once you get there, a more rich/dark/smooth tone when overdriving either the preamp or the poweramp. One other small side-story is that I noticed some of my dirt pedals sounding a little different than they did before, so there was a brief learning curve while getting them dialed in just right.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Sounds like a success story. Congrats on getting everything straightened out. Hope you have many years of enjoyment ahead on it.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

Nicely done. 

Closed loop amps sound and feel quite different from open loop. (and when I say "loop" I mean feedback loop) So yah pedals and the like will react different.


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

Clean Channel said:


> -Added a carbon comp resistor to the power supply stage. This filters out the high end when cranked, and is more in line with a Marshall circuit.
> -Added carbon comps to each power tube


Sounds like he did a great job at fixing up your amp. Glad to hear that your happy but personally, I don't buy the CC resistor crap. I would challenge anyone to hear the difference in a blind A/B test.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

LydianGuitars said:


> Sounds like he did a great job at fixing up your amp. Glad to hear that your happy but personally, I don't buy the CC resistor crap. I would challenge anyone to hear the difference in a blind A/B test.


Well they'll definitely add noise and having poor temperature coefficient, might change value enough that you could hear differences. You'd be surprised at what some people can hear in these amps, I know I am. 

What really blows me away about this whole sordid tale is the lack of knowledge and cavalier attitude displayed by someone who seems to have a following for his product.


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

WCGill said:


> Well they'll definitely add noise and having poor temperature coefficient, might change value enough that you could hear differences. You'd be surprised at what some people can hear in these amps, I know I am.


My attitude with amps has always been to reduce the noise as much as possible.



WCGill said:


> What really blows me away about this whole sordid tale is the lack of knowledge and cavalier attitude displayed by someone who seems to have a following for his product.


Definitely.


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

Clean Channel said:


> Sorry to take so long report back on the amp. I had it fixed back on Monday May 27th, and it's been working perfectly and sounding great ever since!
> 
> I received several unsolicited recommendations from members on Guitars Canada that I take it to a tech in Toronto named Steve Moratto. Aside from being an amp tech he also does his own custom builds, which are absolutely beautiful, point-to-point creations!
> 
> ...


Excellent: Steve does meticulously clean work ! For those who don't understand the technical aspects 
the problem with the screen grids, bias and frequent power tube failure indicate the design work is on part with the lead dress 

Marshall built several thousand amps from 70 to 72 where the screen voltage could exceed the B+ and launch power tubes 
this happened at the same time that el-34 quality was dropping ... thats why in all the old interviews people claimed their marshalls were 
unreliable ... BTW the cure is to add screen resistors (which you read everywhere) 

Marshall copied Fenders mistakes, and many have copied Marshalls mistakes 

FWIW
hand building amps as a small buisiness venture has many pitfalls 

p


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2013)

I would like to see picks after the repair.

Thanks!


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Clean Channel said:


> People say the folk on TGP can be too critical, but the response here as been as bad, if not worse.


if you spend any time at tgp, you know that the thread you reference is an anomaly. that's the most decorum i've ever seen there, for similar threads. it's one of the few places i don't go anymore, because of the general attitude there. 
that said, i didn't see a single unjustified response in either thread on both forums.


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

Player99 said:


> I would like to see picks after the repair.
> 
> Thanks!


Sorry, didn't take any pics after the work was done. 

I should explain though that Steve cleaned things up as best he could and, in his words, create some Kodak moments: ran the wires in straight lines and clipped them together, bent them at right angles to make them easier to follow, resoldered some of the components, and removed things that were left floating and incomplete.

That said, he explained that to really clean it up properly would take quite a bit more time, and didn't think it was really worth it for me to pay him to spend an entire week on the thing. 

He believes it's in strong and reliable enough condition now to "last the marathon" as he put it, but will be happy to fix anything else if other problems come up. 

Sorry again for no after pics! At least, however, I did snap a few quick shots of Steve's work which I posted earlier in the thread.


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