# Enmax Nightmare - Advice?



## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

Hey, guys. I don't think Enmax exists outside of Alberta, but it's a big supplier of electricity and gas here. We are going through an annoying situation with them and aren't sure where to get advice.

My wife was in our local mall and an Enmax guy had a booth there. He did the sales thing with her and she said she would like more info, so he took our address (apparently to look up how much things are in our neighbourhood) and her cell phone number. A couple of weeks later we got a letter in the mail saying, "Welcome to Enmax". They had signed us up without our permission and without any signatures and removed us from our original power supplier. My wife called them and the gist of their answer has been, "Oh, no, we would never do that! You must have signed up and are now lying". After a couple of weeks we got our power back with our original supplier again, but Enmax keeps sending us bills. In fact, they still consider us signed with them, even though our power is back with the original supplier. They say they require a month's notice to remove us from their billing system, but we never signed up with them in the first place. 

Any idea who we can talk to to get this sorted out?


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Wow. I would escalate to management at Enmax' customer service for sure. Sounds like an overaggressive sales tactic to me, I wonder if the guy hired out the booth on his own to get names and numbers and make himself a big bonus?

Tell me TELL ME your wife didn't sign anything when she put down the info requesting more details....wait, I see it now, 'without any signatures'. So, when you get Enmax management on the phone, tell them to produce your signature or F.O., and that the next contact will be coming from your lawyer. But then, you gotta follow up and have a lawyer write a 'cease and desist', which might cost you a hun and a half or so.


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

Thanks, Keto. 

Yeah, she never signed a thing. That was her answer to them on the phone: "Send me a copy of the contract". They sent something that looks like a print out of an online contract or something. Of course her signature is not on it. But I really don't want to have to pay a lawyer to get out of this, since--well, as a matter of principle, really. Why should I pay for their unethical practice, you know what I mean? I am not sure if she's asked for a manager on the phone yet, so I'll mention that to her. She might have, though. She's called them at least twice about it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Sounds like a good occasion to approach either the Better Business Bureau or whatever the provincial consumer protection agency is called out there in Wild Rose country.

There's a guy in the Ottawa Citizen who has a column, and people approach him with their various bureaucratic or commercial nightmares. He then details them in the column and usually some sort of response is extracted from the predatory organization in short order. People get immigration problems resolved, phone bills fixed, down payments returned, etc.

Funny how many organizations seem to be more on the ball about detecting when others are going to find out that they have crossed the line, than they are about finding out internally when their own people or systems have crossed the line.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

If you can't get it settled in a reasonable time I would elevate it. If you have an ombudsman there for the province I would go that route. I have had to use them twice, once for hydro and once for bell. Both times they stomped on them quick and they backed off real fast.


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## ENMAX (Jul 25, 2013)

Mark,

We are very disappointed to hear that this was your experience and assure you we are taking this very seriously. Our Customer Care team is looking into this and have left you a voice message. Can you email your phone number to [email protected] to confirm we've got the right account so we can make this right for you?

ENMAX


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Holy shit Scott how the hell did they end up here, as for you ENMAX this type of sales entrapment is very illegal and you really need to find a way of confirming that the end user actually signed up because I'll bet that the sales rep is earnt on commision. You need to hire and pay the folks so you don't run into this type of thing, we have ahd the same type of problem out here with Gas sales in malls and they were fined by the provincial watch dog.ship


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

nkjanssen said:


> I can't decide if this is impressive or just plain creepy.
> 
> I'm tending towards creepy.


I would have to agree with that one


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Wow, I wonder if I post a complaint about Delta Airlines performance lately if they'll respond here.....

Weird for sure.


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

A bunch of companies have "internet scrubbers" that search for key words or brand names (usually their own) daily - I know if I typed my wife's name and her company name in this message that she'd likely get a phone call or email about it a day or two later. Just surprised at how quickly they jumped on this. Hope it all works out for the OP.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Maybe there's a guitar player at customer relations who lurks here.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Maybe they've screwed enough people that they're in damage control.

Schiesters come to mind. Hope you work this out favorably.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

fretboard said:


> A bunch of companies have "internet scrubbers" that search for key words or brand names (usually their own) daily - I know if I typed my wife's name and her company name in this message that she'd likely get a phone call or email about it a day or two later. Just surprised at how quickly they jumped on this. Hope it all works out for the OP.


This.

The programs even monitor social sites and when something is found it's put in a queue for a customer service agent to handle. It's actually linked right in to their contact centre software.
It's precisely this scenario that they do this. They want to find the "rants" (no offence to original poster, rant is a generalization) on the Internet and offer assistance to nip the problem in the bud.


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

Wow. Okay, now _this_ I didn't anticipate. Hmm. 

Thanks to all who replied. My wife has been getting stuff worked out at her end today and I am sure things will be resolved for us. 

I guess we can thank Google Alerts, too. Smart for any business. But, rather unsettling, in a way. 

Enmax, I will email.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Mark P said:


> Wow. Okay, now _this_ I didn't anticipate. Hmm.
> 
> Thanks to all who replied. My wife has been getting stuff worked out at her end today and I am sure things will be resolved for us.
> 
> ...


Let us know how that goes, I'd like to hear how it ends up.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Don't know about any one else but I find the enmax reply just a little suspicious.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Don't know about any one else but I find the enmax reply just a little suspicious.


Not really, I've seen similar 'one off out of the blue' customer service type replies to complaints on here and on other forums. As explained above, they have computer bots looking for this sort of stuff.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

what they did was wrong, period, the end. coming here in the hopes of appearances is wrong AND creepy. they joined this forum for the sole purpose of damage control for their own actions. they no other posts, and nothing about the guitar. abuse of the forum. throw the bums out. i swear to all that's holy if i have to put up with fuckers like this in the forums, ANY fucking forum, i'll cut my internet cable. if i want to deal with corporations, i'll go to them. there HAS to be some place one can go to be free of them and their constant quest for money.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

cheezyridr said:


> what they did was wrong, period, the end. coming here in the hopes of appearances is wrong AND creepy. they joined this forum for the sole purpose of damage control for their own actions. they no other posts, and nothing about the guitar. abuse of the forum. throw the bums out. i swear to all that's holy if i have to put up with fuckers like this in the forums, ANY fucking forum, i'll cut my internet cable. if i want to deal with corporations, i'll go to them. there HAS to be some place one can go to be free of them and their constant quest for money.


Well it's really no different than what we have had from several guitar related retailers. Someone creates a thread about a bad experience or product and then next thing you know they show up. We have had L&M do that here more than a few times. I can recall at least 4-5 other retailers as well. This subject just happened to be about gas/electric or whatever. The internet is wide open. I will allow a simple response, but not advertising. I highly doubt they will ever log on again.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

You should make them buy a dealers sub in order to respond Scott.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

sulphur said:


> You should make them buy a dealers sub in order to respond Scott.


As my Father used to say "now your cooking with gas". I agree


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

sulphur said:


> You should make them buy a dealers sub in order to respond Scott.


Good one!! That would surprise the hell out of them...LOL

Cheers

Dave


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## Option1 (May 26, 2012)

nkjanssen said:


> I know.
> 
> It doesn't make it any less creepy, though.


While maybe a little creepy, I can't understand all the negativity. To me it was good customer service. If I was in the OP's situation, I'd be happy to get it resolved in whatever way I could, and if that meant the only way I got some action was when the company discovered the bad publicity on a website forum and then took corrective action then so be it. At least there was finally some action.

For some here it reads like they'd rather be able to continue to complain rather than have the issue fixed.

Neil


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## Option1 (May 26, 2012)

nkjanssen said:


> To me, good customer service would have been resolving it when it the (non)customer originally raised the problem rather than trying to stick it to him until the point he takes it to a public forum and then suddenly being concerned with getting it resolved amicably.


That's a fair point to, but sometimes that's what it takes to get it elevated. So maybe not truly good customer service in the full sense, but I still don't get the out and out negativity of some.

Neil


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

I never thought of the fact that ALL of my posts on every forum would be accessible to everybody in the whole world....including data mining bots etc

I thought a forum subscription filtered out info from anyone who wasn't actually a member, for some dumb reason. 

how naiive of me, glad I don't use my real name etc


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

bolero said:


> I never thought of the fact that ALL of my posts on every forum would be accessible to everybody in the whole world....including data mining bots etc
> 
> I thought a forum subscription filtered out info from anyone who wasn't actually a member, for some dumb reason.
> 
> how naiive of me, glad I don't use my real name etc


I just had a guy who joined up here a while back send me an email demanding that I delete all records of his "personal" data. Said after he signed up he was getting all kinds of spam emails etc. I checked his posts, he only ever made one post and put his email address and phone number right in it. Duh.....


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## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

cheezyridr said:


> what they did was wrong, period, the end. coming here in the hopes of appearances is wrong AND creepy. they joined this forum for the sole purpose of damage control for their own actions. they no other posts, and nothing about the guitar. abuse of the forum. throw the bums out. i swear to all that's holy if i have to put up with fuckers like this in the forums, ANY fucking forum, i'll cut my internet cable. if i want to deal with corporations, i'll go to them. there HAS to be some place one can go to be free of them and their constant quest for money.


While I am happy to get this resolved one way or another, what makes me uncomfortable is the fact that they got my personal contact information from my forum post. I do not list any personal contact information in this or any other forum. Not only do I not list my contact info online, but phone phone number is not even listed in the white pages online. I take my privacy seriously. I am computer savvy, but I have no idea how they did that. This carries real ramifications for my (and your) internet browsing. From a simple forum post, someone found my home phone number. 

One thought I had was that they went through their complaints to try to match it to a Mark in Alberta, but my name is not actually on our bills; my wife's name is.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Option1 said:


> That's a fair point to, but sometimes that's what it takes to get it elevated. So maybe not truly good customer service in the full sense, but I still don't get the out and out negativity of some.
> 
> Neil


I think it is the only point. When it is a customer issue their reply was "too bad so sad" and then when the word is on the road to getting spread around then they want to "smooth it over". To me, that is unethical.

Personally, I have had seriously poor customer service experiences with Telus and TD bank when I lived in Calgary and as a matter of principle I will never do business with either of them. They had plenty of opportunities to make things right and they never did anything all resulting in significant personal loss to me (their customer at the time).


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Shark said:


> While I am happy to get this resolved one way or another, what makes me uncomfortable is the fact that they got my personal contact information from my forum post. I do not list any personal contact information in this or any other forum. Not only do I not list my contact info online, but phone phone number is not even listed in the white pages online. I take my privacy seriously. I am computer savvy, but I have no idea how they did that. This carries real ramifications for my (and your) internet browsing. From a simple forum post, someone found my home phone number.
> 
> One thought I had was that they went through their complaints to try to match it to a Mark in Alberta, but my name is not actually on our bills; my wife's name is.


Some good points and a lesson for all to pay attention to. In terms of this forum and most likely all, there are some rules that you should always follow.

1) Never use your real name as your username or in any posts, First names should not be an issue
2) Do not post links of your email address or phone number. They are picked up very easily over the internet.

Personal data submitted to the forum upon registration includes a date of birth (which is used solely for age requirements and you can get around that easily by putting whatever the hell date you want in there), a valid email address and city and town, which we use here primarily as a courtesy to other members. This data cannot be accessed by anyone but me. I have never and will ever share it for any reason. But if the server were to be hacked, thats the data that would be there. So really its a birth date and an email address. We use PayPal for payments on the memberships so no financial data is stored at all on our servers. That is all done through PayPal.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

smorgdonkey said:


> I think it is the only point. When it is a customer issue their reply was "too bad so sad" and then when the word is on the road to getting spread around then they want to "smooth it over". To me, that is unethical.
> 
> Personally, I have had seriously poor customer service experiences with Telus and TD bank when I lived in Calgary and as a matter of principle I will never do business with either of them. They had plenty of opportunities to make things right and they never did anything all resulting in significant personal loss to me (their customer at the time).


I don't think it's unethical personally. They are looking to make it right so their name doesn't get smeared - that's just good business practice. Could they and SHOULD THEY address it properly at point of first contact? Sure, but we all know entry level phone support isn't very 'empowered', so as a consumer you need to push a little at level of first contact....


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

keto said:


> I don't think it's unethical personally. They are looking to make it right so their name doesn't get smeared - that's just good business practice. Could they and SHOULD THEY address it properly at point of first contact? Sure, but we all know entry level phone support isn't very 'empowered', so as a consumer you need to push a little at level of first contact....


Ok...I submit.

After reading your reply, I agree with you and that my judgement is a little harsh...HOWEVER, they are the ones who hire the telephone reps/rep companies as a specific buffer to deal with people who, their research likely indicates, give up easily at the first level of complaint. This is a calculated profit-maker and I think it is ethically questionable and shows the company's claims that they strive for customer service is a facade.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

Shark,

Someone from Enmax just did a tiny bit of Internet sleuthing to find your identity that you've almost broadcast out there. Send me a PM if you want details, but after literally 5 min of work just using an iPhone, I know a disturbing amount of info about you. A couple of notes:


for those that saw the earlier version on this post, I decided to edit it to increase abstraction; PM me if interested in details 
sometimes, your real-life friends give you away 
files we sometimes upload and associate with ourselves sometimes have hidden data 
some of us are more public than others and small snippets can become easily correlated 
Be careful out there.
--
Lexx


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

By the way, I probably have left a similar trail ... [shakes head at self]. It's probably time for Lexx to disappear ...


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Shark said:


> Hey, guys. I don't think Enmax exists outside of Alberta, but it's a big supplier of electricity and gas here. We are going through an annoying situation with them and aren't sure where to get advice.
> 
> My wife was in our local mall and an Enmax guy had a booth there. He did the sales thing with her and she said she would like more info, so he took our address (apparently to look up how much things are in our neighbourhood) and her cell phone number. A couple of weeks later we got a letter in the mail saying, "Welcome to Enmax". They had signed us up without our permission and without any signatures and removed us from our original power supplier. My wife called them and the gist of their answer has been, "Oh, no, we would never do that! You must have signed up and are now lying". After a couple of weeks we got our power back with our original supplier again, but Enmax keeps sending us bills. In fact, they still consider us signed with them, even though our power is back with the original supplier. They say they require a month's notice to remove us from their billing system, but we never signed up with them in the first place.
> 
> Any idea who we can talk to to get this sorted out?


Write a letter telling them you are willing to take them to court and you'll also go to the media if you get one more piece of mail from them. Send the letter to the CEO of the company.


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