# Big talkers... dud players



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Firstly, I'd like to mention that I am an average player at best. Further, what I actually know about guitars is average - among guitar players. 

To people who don't play, I'm a guitar god (but I think it's cause I have a wicked guitar face - the more it looks like I'm trying not to shit myself, the more impressive they think I look).

ANYWAY, I've had two instances where I met guys who talked like they were ry cooder or satch's guitar tech, but played like they were using their knuckles.

Has there ever been a time for you where your mental jaw dropped in shock in an instance like this? I downplay my playing just so this never happens to me.

- - - Updated - - -

And, as a frame of reference, this is the closest thing to my guitar face I could find online:


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I've been shocked one way or another lots of times. Sometimes it's just the opposite of the OP scenario.

Sometimes guys who don't pump themselves up at all will blow you away.

The thing is, guitarists love talking about gear and players and sometimes that can come off as being a know it all, when really it's just a passion for the instrument.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

There is too much "score keeping" in guitar playing. Music is not a competition and is more about involing emotion than technical virtuosity. I'll listen to Sea Sick Steve over Steve Vai any day.

As Milkman said, people are passionate about the instrument. I don't care how well someone plays, it they share my passion for the instrument then they are a friend of mine.


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

Why is it that some musicians never seem to struggle while becoming super pickers yet most others have a long journey to get to the respectable level they expect of themselves. Case in point ( many years back) young guy, big attitude, can't connect locally with promoters or agents, playing a lounge gig, gets noticed by Aretha Franklin and ends up being her guitarist on many tours world wide and her studio player as well. Returns to obscurity and the local music scene, I don't think I have seen one video here on GC of anyone who could match him yet he continues on here, not in the big centers of music such as LA, New York, Toronto etc. No it's not me, compared to this guy I'm Little Willie No fingers. I wouldn't even try to jam with him, great player just no interpersonal skills. People were turned off by his attitude and ego.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Milkman said:


> I've been shocked one way or another lots of times. Sometimes it's just the opposite of the OP scenario.
> 
> Sometimes guys who don't pump themselves up at all will blow you away.
> 
> The thing is, guitarists love talking about gear and players and sometimes that can come off as being a know it all, when really it's just a passion for the instrument.


I feel the same way. I just have a problem with people who talk out of their ass. It is not A big problem, but 1 nevertheless.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

adcandour said:


> I feel the same way. I just have a problem with people who talk out of their ass. It is not A big problem, but 1 nevertheless.


There are players beyond you that would consider you to be talking out of your ass. It's all relative.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

dradlin said:


> There are players beyond you that would consider you to be talking out of your ass. It's all relative.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's ridiculous. The major difference between me and the people I am talking about is that I'm aware of my deficiency


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

adcandour said:


> That's ridiculous. The major difference between me and the people I am talking about is that I'm aware of my deficiency


And that qualifies you to be be judgmental?

Yes, of course there are the delusional types... it takes all kinds to make the world go round. 

Whatever level a player is at, if it brings them joy then i encourage them to have at it.



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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I find more guitar players will down play their abilities than anything. I can't remember running in to a guitar player that talks about how great they are whether they are or not.
Now golf... thats a different story. I can't count the number of players claiming a 2 or 3 handicap or even scratch, that just happen to be having a bad day of shooting 90's or higher the day I'm playing with them.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

guitarman2 said:


> I find more guitar players will down play their abilities than anything. I can't remember running in to a guitar player that talks about how great they are whether they are or not.
> Now golf... thats a different story. I can't count the number of players claiming a 2 or 3 handicap or even scratch, that just happen to be having a bad day of shooting 90's or higher the day I'm playing with them.


You've probably golfed with my dad.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

In some cases (most), you'd have to judge/assess/observe someone's playing. How do you not? Look at thread concerning that ambient player? Look at all the videos on this forum that have comments - positive and constructive?

Youre arguing for the sake of arguing it seems.

Some people just have the kind of moments and I'd like to hear about them. I'm sure if the singer from this video was here, he'd be talking about this douchebag guitarist who probably bullshitted his way on stage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVoEb5Rm5eo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Link may not work, but I'm sure you've all seen this one.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

why does anybody really care, it really is relative. I consider myself an average player but yet have had the pleasure to play with some of the very best and yet they liked my stuff and I thought it was okay to pretty good and yet there is stuff I still want to learn after almost 50 years. Its what it is and I don't worry about someone else blowing their own horn. ship
ps I hate it when folks post utube videos of stuff they have done of forums no matter how good it is. and that's my hang up


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

adcandour said:


> Youre arguing for the sake of arguing it seems.


I'm just not into a culture discouraging to players still finding their way... we all are to some degree.

One can be knowledgable of music and all things guitar without their skill level matching their enthusiasm.

Sorry for not backing your diatribe.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Average player hear, This is why I buy average equipment. I have never spent more than $1000 on a guitar and I take great pride in one of my $50 garage sale finds and my amp I got $140 bucks into. Yes I have a American Strat and a tube amp also but I like making the cheap stuff work ,often hideing the mistakes.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

deadear said:


> Average player hear, This is why I buy average equipment. I have never spent more than $1000 on a guitar and I take great pride in one of my $50 garage sale finds and my amp I got $140 bucks into. Yes I have a American Strat and a tube amp also but I like making the cheap stuff work ,often hideing the mistakes.


I never equate level of skill to value of equipment. For me its 100% what you can afford or what you're willing to spend, regardless of skill level. If a guy that just learned his first 3 chords yesterday buys a $3,000 Martin or Custom shop Fender. Thats his business, and good for him.
Some people have great skill and enough money to buy expensive guitars but prefer to buy garage sale finds or budget guitars from Kijiji. If that makes them happy then great.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

dradlin said:


> I'm just not into a culture discouraging to players still finding their way... we all are to some degree.


I don't think he was talking about players finding their way. I think he was talking about the people who go on and on about nuances and how this person and that person sucks (meanwhile you are thinking "I can't wait to hear this guy play") then he picks up his instrument and he is HORRIBLE. 

I have seen it many times. Even had a guy build everyone's expectations then at a jam he kept picking up a guitar, playing things that didn't work with the song being played and then setting it down mid song. About a year and a half later, we all went to a big annual music party with a bunch of live bands playing and the same guy tagged along with someone in the group. HE ACTUALLY SAID as we walked into the place "we should put a band together and play this next year".

My eyes nearly rolled right out of my head.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

guitarman2 said:


> I never equate level of skill to value of equipment. For me its 100% what you can afford or what you're willing to spend, regardless of skill level. If a guy that just learned his first 3 chords yesterday buys a $3,000 Martin or Custom shop Fender. Thats his business, and good for him.


Good point we need them kind of players to keep L&M in business .


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

smorgdonkey said:


> I don't think he was talking about players finding their way.


I bet the "douche bag that probably bullshitted his way on stage" is at or above the skill level of many players around here.

Should he be on stage, no. Should he be assaulted and called a "douche bag", no.




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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

deadear said:


> Good point we need them kind of players to keep L&M in business .


I don't really give it a second thought. When I see some guy driving down the street in a barely legal street rod that cost him or his daddy 5 years of my salary, I don't think "That guy wouldn't last 2 seconds at the Indy 500".
To me what you can afford to own has nothing to do with the skill level. Sometimes I look at my very expensive Custom guitar with the nice paisley finish and just admire the beautiful work that went in to it. It brings me joy and I haven't played a note.
I know a guy just in the next town from me that has played for many of the top name acts in Canada and is a noted session player.
His main guitar is a japanese reissue Tele and he's got some other PRS copy. His amp is an old yamaha solid state. But man can this guy play. 
These instruments are just tools to him. This attitude of "you should only buy instruments commensurate of your skill level", is ridiculous concept mainly rooted in jealousy.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

I think adandour is talking more about annoying attitude and inflated ego but correct me if I'm wrong. Like this :


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

bluzfish said:


> I think adandour is talking more about annoying attitude and inflated ego but correct me if I'm wrong. Like this :



As extremely annoying as Kanye can be, he's got money and fame to back it up. I would think that the OP wasn't talking about this. Because anyone with an ounce of intelligence can discount a celebrity. I mean personally I don't find him annoying cause I don't follow him. I wouldn't know one of his songs, I wouldn't know if he plays guitar or not.
But to someone you meet in person that exudes that type of personality, I can understand that getting under the skin.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

I met a guy once who had some really nice guitars on display in his office. A 335, a custom Strat and an old Tele to name a few. I was surprised to learn he could only play three chords but he kept the guitars and an old Fender Twin around in case anyone felt like playing them.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

funny, if my dogs could talk, they's tell you i'm the best guitar player in the ENTIRE house. and it's totally true. i really am the best guitar player in this apt. the fact that there are no others cements my position quite handily.
now if you sat down on my couch, (you'd have to be brave, and you would totally get covered in dog hair) and i played for you, you mght later say "ughhh!!! that guys terrible!!!!" but if you sneakily stand outside of my door on a good fri or sat afternoon, you might say "meh - he's ok i guess" i get alot better when nobody's listening. kinda like invisible boy, _who could only disappear when no one was looking_. 
but that said, if i go to see someone else play, a show i paid money to see, i expect the guy to be a hell of alot better than me. if i pay for the show, i get to critique it. otherwise, for myself, glass houses and all, you know?


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Most of the guys I know say "I can't play for shit", then proceed to blow you away.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

bluzfish said:


> I think adandour is talking more about annoying attitude and inflated ego but correct me if I'm wrong. Like this :
> 
> View attachment 7140


Haha. Pretty much. Kinda.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

smorgdonkey said:


> I don't think he was talking about players finding their way. I think he was talking about the people who go on and on about nuances and how this person and that person sucks (meanwhile you are thinking "I can't wait to hear this guy play") then he picks up his instrument and he is HORRIBLE.
> 
> I have seen it many times. Even had a guy build everyone's expectations then at a jam he kept picking up a guitar, playing things that didn't work with the song being played and then setting it down mid song. About a year and a half later, we all went to a big annual music party with a bunch of live bands playing and the same guy tagged along with someone in the group. HE ACTUALLY SAID as we walked into the place "we should put a band together and play this next year".
> 
> My eyes nearly rolled right out of my head.


Exactly
.............


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

guitarman2 said:


> As extremely annoying as Kanye can be, he's got money and fame to back it up. I would think that the OP wasn't talking about this. Because anyone with an ounce of intelligence can discount a celebrity. I mean personally I don't find him annoying cause I don't follow him. I wouldn't know one of his songs, I wouldn't know if he plays guitar or not.
> But to someone you meet in person that exudes that type of personality, I can understand that getting under the skin.


Pretty much.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

I recently got a new student - 18 years old, been playing since he was 10, never had a lesson - who truly thinks he's awesome with all the confidence of adolescence. Unfortunately his technique is absolutely terrible and he has just hit the point where it's holding him back from playing the music he wants to play. I've been doing this long enough to know that he needs to slow down and work on improving his technique before he can progress, but he doesn't want to be told that. He didn't show up for his second lesson. Didn't show up again for the 6th. After the 7th he gave notice that he's quitting lessons. His playing won't improve until he's able to recognize that he's not that good yet. Definitely a big talker, dud player.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

bluzfish said:


> I think adandour is talking more about annoying attitude and inflated ego but correct me if I'm wrong. Like this :
> 
> View attachment 7140


I like this image. It rings true to me.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I am passionate about guitars and many other things with a technical side. I am much more comfortable talking about guitars and other technical things I am interested in than I am playing guitar because I have a hard time finding the time to practice enough and on a regular basis. Case in point, I paid $200.00 for a number of guitar lessons a year and a half ago and haven't taken any yet because of my schedule. I think I'll email him today and set up a time.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

A few years ago I was watching some interview show (I think it was on TVO) where they were talking to some old guy who was naming all these legends he had played with over the years. However, when he started to play, it was as if he had never held a guitar in his life, let alone played one. The interviewer was bobbing his head during it, but I couldn't help but think it was some kind of joke, even though it wasn't.


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2014)

reminds me of Bobby experimenting with 'sound shapes'.

[video=youtube;VlkBk7X4ot4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoAGasPLh30[/video]


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Hey--I'm the World's Okayest Guitar player, the one that's most me--so I never surprise people that way, but some sure think I'm better than I am.

Some of the flashy stuff that amazes people is easy to play, and some stuff that's difficult to play isn't flashy at all--so amazing non-musicians isn't always difficult.

That's not to put them down, but it's the way things work.

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kat_ said:


> I recently got a new student - 18 years old, been playing since he was 10, never had a lesson - who truly thinks he's awesome with all the confidence of adolescence. Unfortunately his technique is absolutely terrible and he has just hit the point where it's holding him back from playing the music he wants to play. I've been doing this long enough to know that he needs to slow down and work on improving his technique before he can progress, but he doesn't want to be told that. He didn't show up for his second lesson. Didn't show up again for the 6th. After the 7th he gave notice that he's quitting lessons. His playing won't improve until he's able to recognize that he's not that good yet. Definitely a big talker, dud player.


I've met the type
Fortunately most students aren't like that.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Milkman said:


> I like this image. It rings true to me.



It's funny, the only way I can relate to this is when someone tells me I'm kicking ass at xbox. You wanna see me fumble - tell me I'm in 1st place on Call of Duty and watch me plummet.

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nkjanssen said:


> I actually like a lot of Kanye's music. Some of it is pretty damn good. I don't even mind his megalomaniac image either. Much as I also find the Gallagher brothers amusing, I figure the world needs at least a few rock stars / rap stars to act like asses. What would we use as a benchmark for that kind of thing otherwise?


That song, 'brand new' is the shizznit. And, yes, I realize no one is doing the 'izz' thing. That's what makes me so gangsta.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

guitarman2 said:


> This attitude of "you should only buy instruments commensurate of your skill level", is ridiculous concept mainly rooted in jealousy.


You truly are an absolute idiot. One more for my ignore list. Thats not bad only two I have pulled the plug on. Bye


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Milkman said:


> I like this image. It rings true to me.


I think you see my point. I have generally found that people who consider themselves superior, smarter or just better than others, aren't.

A true genius is humble enough to know he has so very much yet to be learned from others and does not try to elevate himself above anybody.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

deadear said:


> You truly are an absolute idiot. One more for my ignore list. Thats not bad only two I have pulled the plug on. Bye


So I'm a hack but shouldn't own a custom shop guitar or high end amp? Oh, woe is me!

I'll be shopping for a Squier and a Gorilla in the morning


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

keto said:


> So I'm a hack but shouldn't own a custom shop guitar or high end amp? Oh, woe is me!
> 
> I'll be shopping for a Squier and a Gorilla in the morning


Are you sure you're good enough?

I mean we all have to pass inspection apparently.

I may have to trade in some of my stuff.
i'm sure I'm not good enough for it.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

The very best players I have met over the years are also the most humble - largely because they realize how much they have yet to learn.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

deadear said:


> You truly are an absolute idiot. One more for my ignore list. Thats not bad only two I have pulled the plug on. Bye


i dont understand why youre taking issue with what he stated-
every guitar forum ive looked at sees the question pop up from time to time.
"im not a very good guitar player, but i can afford an expensive guitar, should i do it?"
and of course you should buy whatever you want, if you have the cash.
some guys like quality things, stuff they can be proud of. nothing wrong with that at all.

i knew a guy years ago who put an expensive marshall and an explorer on lay-away.
i think the price came to almost $6000.
for over 2 years the guy paid that rig off, and didnt even own a guitar in that time.
and you know, it didnt matter- guy couldnt play.
his motivation escaped me, as it would likely most of us-
but was he wrong?
of course not.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

fraser said:


> i dont understand why youre taking issue with what he stated-
> every guitar forum ive looked at sees the question pop up from time to time.
> "im not a very good guitar player, but i can afford an expensive guitar, should i do it?"
> and of course you should buy whatever you want, if you have the cash.
> ...


I guess it must have been the jealousy remark. lol. Oh well I get jealous of what others can afford sometimes and don't mind admitting it. But I won't criticize for what others can afford.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> But I won't criticize for what others can afford.


nor will i.
i think the reason i remember the guy i mentioned so well is because he was appalled by the instruments i was using at the time.
to the point of actually voicing his disgust to others we both knew.
i had a couple of beat to hell strats.
i remember explaining to him that my guitars are out on the couch all the time.
dogs, kids, angry drunken wife, whatever.
they are merely instruments.
i want to play them when i want to play them.
his opinion was that one should buy the best he can afford, and then treat it with the respect it deserves.
i never felt he was wrong, just that my perspective differed from his.

if a guy shows up and cant play his expensive gear, so what.
it really doesnt mean anything.
i apologize for helping to take things beyond the original posters intent-


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## LPBlue (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I guess it must have been the jealousy remark. lol. Oh well I get jealous of what others can afford sometimes and don't mind admitting it. But I won't criticize for what others can afford.


I probably wouldn't pay the price today for a lot of the gear that I own. Most of it I bought 20~30 years ago but now it has some sort of value outside of "I just like it"...pays to be an old hoarding fart now and then doesn't it?


J.R.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

my only point to this thread is that I see a lot of folks that put a premium on quantity.
Having 5-6 or 10 low to medium quality guitars or amps should never trump having a couple of great quality items.
After all, you can only play one at a time....

G.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

allthumbs56 said:


> The very best players I have met over the years are also the most humble - largely because they realize how much they have yet to learn.


That is quite possibly the truest statement ever.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

fraser said:


> angry drunken wife


That was funny!


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

LPBlue said:


> I probably wouldn't pay the price today for a lot of the gear that I own. Most of it I bought 20~30 years ago but now it has some sort of value outside of "I just like it"...pays to be an old hoarding fart now and then doesn't it?
> 
> J.R.


That reminds me - Remember that old 70s Steven Spielberg TV series "Amazing Stories"? I think that's where I heard this one:

One story that stuck with me was the poor farm boy who collected 'junk' who met a leprechaun who told him to "never let go of anything you love". So he kept all the worthless stuff he had collected and when he grew up, he inherited the farm but he fell on hard times and lost the farm, bankrupt.

So he packed everything he owned in his car and drove across the country to find a better life. Along the way, he met people who saw the now valuable 'antiques' in his car and bought them one by one for outrageous amounts of money. Soon he was rich enough to go back and buy his childhood home again and lived happily ever after.

Or maybe I made that up...


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

deadear said:


> You truly are an absolute idiot. One more for my ignore list. Thats not bad only two I have pulled the plug on. Bye


Maybe you should put us all on your ignore list, LOL.

If I only had instruments that matched my skill level I'd have to sell a lot of stuff.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

There's a blowhard in every crowd. They don't bother me much. The human race has many greater disappointments. 

There was this guy though, who hung around the local mom'n'pop music shop, bragging about his this and that gear, and the amazing music he was recording with it. Holy demisemihemidemisemiquaver Batman, it was the second coming of Bach and The Beatles in one person. I listened to his vainglorious raving one slow Saturday afternoon and just to get him out of my face (and the remote chance he was on to something rather than just on something), I gave him my email so he could send me some tracks. Checking my snobbery at the door only somewhat, those tracks were the least rhythmic, most out of tune, sloppy quasi-wanking, monotonous, noise I've ever heard. I seriously thought it was a joke, but no one would make that amount of effort for a joke...dozens of tracks, various instruments, and very long "tunes", as in over 15 minutes each.

Next time I saw this guy (having not spotted him in the store when I approached it in time to do a u-turn) he asked me what i thought, so sure I would praise him. I told him the world wasn't ready for him yet and maybe he should get some lessons in the meantime. I didn't offer my services, fwiw. He laughed as if he thought I was joking.

Delusion 1, reality 0.

Peace, Mooh.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

GTmaker said:


> my only point to this thread is that I see a lot of folks that put a premium on quantity.
> Having 5-6 or 10 low to medium quality guitars or amps should never trump having a couple of great quality items.
> After all, you can only play one at a time....
> 
> G.


There again it all comes down to what a person is after. If someone needs a single coil, some humbuckers, some p90's, etc. It can be difficult to buy the high end guitars when you require 5 or 6. Even though I've owned several guitars at one time, I'm pretty much happy only owning a Telecaster (or T style) guitar. The time when I've owned a tele, a strat, les paul and SG It just about broke the bank with a couple of them being custom shops and the others being American standards. Along with the 2 or 3 high end amps that I owned its a tidy sum to have tied up in music gear. My 5 year phase of high end equipment had nothing to do with my music skills or my desire to get better. It was like a hobby all its own and it was fun while it lasted. Now I'm content with my 1 amp and 1 electric and just playing.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

fraser said:


> _*i dont understand why youre taking issue with what he stated-*_
> every guitar forum ive looked at sees the question pop up from time to time.
> "im not a very good guitar player, but i can afford an expensive guitar, should i do it?"
> and of course you should buy whatever you want, if you have the cash.
> ...


I don't understand it either. If someone buys a guitar only to their level and in a few months practices like crazy and is now at a level above what his guitar will allow him to do, that is false economy and not very wise purchasing.

It's interesting that this same posture is taken by many people in the skiing world. Thankfully, I never listened and became a better skier much quicker than I would have if I would have stayed at an entry or medium level ski.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

It sure looks like this thread has run its course and what was accomplished. I guess I am never going to understand why some folks are going to argue about nothing and especially when it comes down to what you can afford and what you can't afford. As long as you are playing who cares how good or bad someone is as long as they are playing and its not like as if you need to worry about them bragging beyond their abilities to play guitar. Me my attitude is so what let them, but to sit on a forum and argue about it does strike me as a little no correction a lot silly, sheese. ship


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Ship of fools said:


> It sure looks like this thread has run its course and what was accomplished. I guess I am never going to understand why some folks are going to argue about nothing and especially when it comes down to what you can afford and what you can't afford. As long as you are playing who cares how good or bad someone is as long as they are playing and its not like as if you need to worry about them bragging beyond their abilities to play guitar. Me my attitude is so what let them, but to sit on a forum and argue about it does strike me as a little no correction a lot silly, sheese. ship


I respect the fact you can attempt to extinguish and fuel a fire in the same paragraph.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

ship, if we only discussed things that people wouldn't disagree on then there would be no forum.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

adcandour said:


> I respect the fact you can attempt to extinguish and fuel a fire in the same paragraph.


I guess I just don't truly understand why argue in the first place and yes Smorg I can agree that we don't all have to have the same opinion, but it rubs me the wrong way when I see someone get so ticked off by someone's response to say well you are off my list.
To me there is no such thing as a really bad player, he had the guts to go up and show his stuff and while I might have played it differently I have to give him his dues he went up and tried. To me its better then the guy who didn't make any attempt.
But hey kids that's just the way the ship rolls, you say tomato and I say Tomato. ship


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

I play what I like for my own personal pleasure, I have no burning desire to stand on a stage and play for an audience. I couldn`t care less what guitar another player selects, don`t give a rats butt if it has a long or short tenon, finished in poly or lacquer or has fret end binding or not...the only people who spend time on those kind of things are other guitar players. I am a member of a couple of visual art forums and have never read any member criticize someone for the type of brush they use or how expensive their paper was or even their ability...I`ve always said there is no wrong way to draw, people arrive at different levels in their work but thats OK....I think music should be the same. Sorry but I have real world issues to keep me occupied and simply don`t care what others may or may not think about my guitars or ability.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

sneakypete said:


> I play what I like for my own personal pleasure, I have no burning desire to stand on a stage and play for an audience. I couldn`t care less what guitar another player selects, don`t give a rats butt if it has a long or short tenon, finished in poly or lacquer or has fret end binding or not...the only people who spend time on those kind of things are other guitar players. I am a member of a couple of visual art forums and have never read any member criticize someone for the type of brush they use or how expensive their paper was or even their ability...I`ve always said there is no wrong way to draw, people arrive at different levels in their work but thats OK....I think music should be the same. Sorry but I have real world issues to keep me occupied and simply don`t care what others may or may not think about my guitars or ability.


Finally, someone who can appreciate my stickmen! I'm going to go tell my wife who, BTW, can really draw and paint.:smile-new::sFun_dancing::smile-new:


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Ship of fools said:


> but it rubs me the wrong way when I see someone get so ticked off by someone's response to say well you are off my list.


I'm with you there...some people are more sensitive and it could also be that perhaps he was just having a really bad day.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

GTmaker said:


> my only point to this thread is that I see a lot of folks that put a premium on quantity.
> Having 5-6 or 10 low to medium quality guitars or amps should never trump having a couple of great quality items.
> After all, you can only play one at a time....
> 
> G.


I know people who do one and people who do the other.

If someone wants to go out & buy 10 Squiers or one Gibson-that's their choice.
And they have to live with the consequences either way.

And either way can be a way for someone to brag--"Look how many guitars I have!"
or "Look at the guitar I have!"

So make your choice based on your interests, wants, budget or whatever and live with it.

It's your choice.


And in addition to the discussion on whether you have to deserve playing a certain guitar is a point that affects my buying
The reason I don't buy expensive stuff is not because I'm not good enough-but it's because I can't afford it, and it makes no sense to spend that much on something I'm just playing at home for fun if I can't afford it (If I could maybe I would still not buy it, because it's just for fun.)


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

Really draw depends on who`s looking. Some folks may argue that Picasso couldn`t really draw...personally I can`t see why Marc Chagall is so important, frankly his stuff doesn`t move me at all but there ya go...some "experts" decided that Chagall was great and so it was written yet the world is littered with people who really have talent and can`t give their work away. Now, I`m not saying Chagall was a poser just sayin` he doesn`t appeal to me, c`est la vie.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

Come to think of it....really play guitar fits in here too...if I like a song, I`ll buy it if I don`t I won`t and thats not based on where the player`s guitar was made or if it has single coils or humbuckers, it`s always been about the song for me. There are a lot of great songs that can be considered easy to play and confidentially I didn`t know that until I started playing and learned songs I had sung along to on the radio for many years, didn`t know what a cowboy chord was but I`m really happy that I have learned to play those songs because radio in this city is pitiful and when I want to hear songs I like, I gotta play em `cause I certainly won`t hear em on local radio.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Ship of fools said:


> why does anybody really care, it really is relative. I consider myself an average player but yet have had the pleasure to play with some of the very best and yet they liked my stuff and I thought it was okay to pretty good and yet there is stuff I still want to learn after almost 50 years. Its what it is and I don't worry about someone else blowing their own horn. ship
> *ps I hate it when folks post utube videos of stuff they have done of forums no matter how good it is. and that's my hang up*



I'm not sure I'm getting this - are you saying you hate when people on a forum post videos of stuff they have done? (Sorry, I just read this now)


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

adcandour said:


> Firstly, I'd like to mention that I am an average player at best.
> 
> And, as a frame of reference, this is the closest thing to my guitar face I could find online:










Me, singing the solo & "Suckin' in those cheeks!" (Circa 1984, Profile Session Series Tele)


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

bzrkrage said:


> View attachment 7177
> 
> Me, singing the solo & "Suckin' in those cheeks!" (Circa 1984, Profile Session Series Tele)


Nice. (Un)Fortunately there are no pics of me wailing away on my sofa, but apparently my guitar face involves a lot of nostril flaring.


Q: How many guitar players does it take to change a light bulb?

A: Five. One to do it & four more to say that they could've done it faster.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

GTmaker said:


> my only point to this thread is that I see a lot of folks that put a premium on quantity.
> Having 5-6 or 10 low to medium quality guitars or amps should never trump having a couple of great quality items.
> After all, you can only play one at a time....
> 
> G.


This is so true... I've seen the same thing, people with a dozen semi-crappy guitars that can't be setup well or don't quite work electronically but they were bought because they were 'a deal' or 'I don't have one like that'. Obviously that's the individual's perogative but I tended to wonder why not sell them all off and get a guitar or two that plays and sounds great instead of a dozen beaters? Just never got that one...


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## Guest (Feb 5, 2014)

I'll play too.
That's me with the 'V'.
'86 thrash/metal band


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1) People identify different sorts of goals or benchmarks in their own or others' playing. Some will spend time woodshedding so they can play fast. There was a brief period where any time you strolled into a music store, _somebody_ would be doing 2-handed tapping à la Eddie. Some folks aim for single-note runs and leads, while others couldn't tackle a lead if their lives depended on it but have the sort of rhythm guitar chops you'd kill to have. Still other players focus on taste. Simple lines that you couldn't imagine that tune without. The particular aspect of their own playing that impresses or inspires them will depend on the goals they have set for themselves...which one can probably expect to change over playing years.

2) If one studies the measurement of intelligence, what you see is that there is nothing on any purported IQ test that a very average person could NOT solve. What differentiates the high-scorer from the mediocre scorer is the degree of _consistency_ they show. The high-scorer handles everything smoothly while the mediocre scorer will show you flashes of decent efficient performance, interleaved with thick-headedness, and no particular pattern as to which will reveal itself at any moment. We can all probably show impressive chops on _something_, but those chops may not always show themselves. 

If I listen to tapes of myself from the old days, I hear stuff that makes me think "Why the hell wasn't I famous and the stuff of legend?" interspersed with a lot of stuff that makes me think "How the hell did I have the unmitigated gall to get up on a stage and force_ that _on people?". I imagine a younger person would be more persuaded by the peak performance they are able to give, than by the totality of their playing, bright and dull spots combined. At present, I'm well out of practice, but I know my finger vibrato is still pretty good, my tone is decent, and my rhythm chops also still add to a song, rather than detracting from it. So, some bright spots, but not an all-round "great" player. As well, my sense of what _constitutes_ great playing has changed since I started strumming in 1963.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

gtrguy said:


> This is so true... I've seen the same thing, people with a dozen semi-crappy guitars that can't be setup well or don't quite work electronically but they were bought because they were 'a deal' or 'I don't have one like that'. Obviously that's the individual's perogative but I tended to wonder why not sell them all off and get a guitar or two that plays and sounds great instead of a dozen beaters? Just never got that one...


I have the dozen or so "semi-crappy" guitars and amps to go with them. And a lot of them were bought as a "deal" and I didn't have any quite like it. eg the mid 60's Silvertone and Raven tear drop. Plugged into one of my newer amps and they don't sound worth a damn. But plugged into one of my amps from the same era and those single coils sound pretty good and give me the sound I want. I also have some "better" guitars. They also give me the sound I want. I just can't see being stuck with just one or two guitars and an amp unless that's all you can afford and want. To be honest I play in the basement and sometimes in the back yard. My audience is usually the cats and sometimes the granddaughters. Sometimes I play songs and sometimes I play sounds....sometimes the wife recognizes what I'm playing. Oh and all my guitars, except the ones that need work, play and sound great.....to me, and that's all that matters.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

mhammer said:


> If I listen to tapes of myself from the old days,


Some of that is scary...
In my case at least.
I've heard some cool stuff, but some stuff that at the time I thought was great, and later made me cringe...


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

gtrguy said:


> This is so true... I've seen the same thing, people with a dozen semi-crappy guitars that can't be setup well or don't quite work electronically but they were bought because they were 'a deal' or 'I don't have one like that'. Obviously that's the individual's perogative but I tended to wonder *why not sell them all off and get a guitar or two that plays and sounds great instead of a dozen beaters? Just never got that one*...


It's like having a dozen Lada's (remember those?) or a Buick, Nissan, Camry, etc.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

bzrkrage said:


> Me, singing the solo & "Suckin' in those cheeks!" (Circa 1984, Profile Session Series Tele)


Looks, like you got a bit of 'guitar leg' thrown in there too - nice.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

[video=youtube;vXKhPUa3uKc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXKhPUa3uKc[/video]


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Oh and all my guitars, except the ones that need work, play and sound great.....to me, and that's all that matters.


If they play and sound great, I wouldn't consider them crappy... I'm talking about guitars that are pretty much unplayable- damaged, in need of major repairs like a neck set on an acoustic, stuff like that... I'm all for inexpensive, funky guitars with unique sounds... that's something altogether different in my opinion.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

zontar said:


> [video=youtube;vXKhPUa3uKc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXKhPUa3uKc[/video]


Thanks for that. I had forgotten it, in the mists of time. Note Paul Shaffer on piano (with hair), and Howard Shore leading the band...before he got famous for all those LOTR soundtracks and so many others.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> It's like having a dozen Lada's (remember those?) or a Buick, Nissan, Camry, etc.


I dont think its that at all. I have run into people who buy up losts of things like Danelectros, Kents, etc, and they truely identify with those things. I dont understand it, maybe you dont either, but they sure do.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Some of us like the "black sheep" instruments. I'll likely never own a Strat or a Les Paul in my lifetime, and actually have no hankering to. We are the guitar "geeks", like you'd find at Deke Dickerson's guitar geek festivals: http://www.dekedickerson.com/guitargeek/ If it has weird pickups, or too many pickups, or offbeat shapes, we want it.

If you put a 59 Burst, or one of those Teisco Spectrums with the rainbow switches and split pickups, in front of me, I know what I'd reach for.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Some of us like the "black sheep" instruments. I'll likely never own a Strat or a Les Paul in my lifetime, and actually have no hankering to. We are the guitar "geeks", like you'd find at Deke Dickerson's guitar geek festivals: http://www.dekedickerson.com/guitargeek/ If it has weird pickups, or too many pickups, or offbeat shapes, we want it.
> 
> If you put a 59 Burst, or one of those Teisco Spectrums with the rainbow switches and split pickups, in front of me, I know what I'd reach for.


 Really? No love for the original masterpieces?

I like quirky, but I'd have a house full of Strats, Teles, LPs, et cetera if I could.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I _respect_ them a lot, but for whatever reasons have no yearning for them. I don't even try them out in stores. If I won the Lotto Max tomorrow, I likely would head off to some place with legendary vintage instruments on Monday, but I would NOT come back with any of "the big 3". In fact, there is a good chance I wouldn't come back with anything made by Gibson, Fender, or Gretsch. I'd buy my kids one, if they wanted, but for myself, no. I like the cheap and off-beat.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

mhammer said:


> I _respect_ them a lot, but for whatever reasons have no yearning for them. I don't even try them out in stores. If I won the Lotto Max tomorrow, I likely would head off to some place with legendary vintage instruments on Monday, but I would NOT come back with any of "the big 3". In fact, there is a good chance I wouldn't come back with anything made by Gibson, Fender, or Gretsch. I'd buy my kids one, if they wanted, but for myself, no. I like the cheap and off-beat.


Fair enough.

I guess I like both.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Milkman said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> I guess I like both.


Me too. In fact, one of the better purchases in my opinion is a Fender Highway One Strat...or at least they were back in 2006. I don't even know if they are in the current product line. One thing for sure is that while playing and going through different settings, a slew of iconic tones can be conjured up. I wish I would have kept one of those.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

No disparagement of "name" brands intended on my part. I just steer clear of luxury.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

mhammer said:


> No disparagement of "name" brands intended on my part. I just steer clear of luxury.


It's interesting. I find those cheapies (that look super cool) to be a battle when trying to learn anything. They really hinder my playing. 

I_ also_ tend to veer away from the big names myself (well, mainly les pauls), because it feels like Im trying to tackle them. I can't move ahead. Have you ever considered that they may have hindered your playing? 

I realize that you could be totally satisfied with your playing, but I wanted to ask anyway in case it's relevant. I'm not that great at playing, but I'd be Faaaar worse without an Ernie Ball, so I'm glad I bought one.

PS - this post is relevant to the thread, because I'm am talking big, but I am certainly a dud. You guys all went on a crazy tangent.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Oh it most certainly has to be _playable_. I just don't have any particular tonal goals the way that some do; i.e., wanting to sound like so-and-so. I make my own pickups and pedals, assemble my own instruments, and dicker with my amps. And whatever comes out, comes out. If it does or doesn't sound like something or someone I've heard before, I'm fine either way.


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Oh it most certainly has to be _playable_. I just don't have any particular tonal goals the way that some do; i.e., wanting to sound like so-and-so. I make my own pickups and pedals, assemble my own instruments, and dicker with my amps. And whatever comes out, comes out. If it does or doesn't sound like something or someone I've heard before, I'm fine either way.


Mark, here's something I saw earlier that was linked to from another forum. I know you like offbeat, and this is, but would this be too pricey for you?
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/dipinto-galaxie-4--los-straitjackets-electric-guitar?pfm=sp


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Thanks for that. I had forgotten it, in the mists of time. Note Paul Shaffer on piano (with hair), and Howard Shore leading the band...before he got famous for all those LOTR soundtracks and so many others.


Blame adcandour for mentioning guitar leg--that triggered the memory.

And it is kind of cool seeing musicians before they got big--or bigger.
*
*


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Some of us like the "black sheep" instruments. I'll likely never own a Strat or a Les Paul in my lifetime, and actually have no hankering to. We are the guitar "geeks", like you'd find at Deke Dickerson's guitar geek festivals: http://www.dekedickerson.com/guitargeek/ If it has weird pickups, or too many pickups, or offbeat shapes, we want it.
> 
> If you put a 59 Burst, or one of those Teisco Spectrums with the rainbow switches and split pickups, in front of me, I know what I'd reach for.


You had to mention the Teisco didn't you. It's on my list along with a Hounddog Taylor.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i know all about cheap guitars. i bet i've owned more pointy hondos than any 3 of you. and then there are the harmonies. but the am strat i have now is a gas killer. it does almost everything well. i'd like to have another guitar for humbuckers, but right now, i'm just not feelin the gas since i bought this strat last spring. it's a way better guitar than the others i've had (an affinity and a mexi)


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

zontar said:


> Blame adcandour for mentioning guitar leg--that triggered the memory.
> 
> And it is kind of cool seeing musicians before they got big--or bigger.
> *
> *


Uh, ... blame the guy who posted the guitar leg.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

adcandour said:


> Uh, ... blame the guy who posted the guitar leg.


Oh, did I say blame?

I meant credit or thank...


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