# Replacing D18 with a Cheaper Used Acoustic



## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

I bought my 75 D18 new in 1976. It's had a neck reset and other minor problems corrected by the great Martin Co. warranty. I'd like to buy a used Martin soundalike and liquidate my D18. Does anyone have any experience with a more economical Martin replacement in the range of $400. Not looking at new guitars. The reason behind this is to free up cash and if it should get stolen it would not hurt as much.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

oops never mind


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## 12 stringer (Jan 5, 2019)

A Martin sound-alike to replace a 75 D18 for $400 you say? Can’t be done, I say.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I can see a "Regret" moment coming soon. What better low end replacement but a low end Martin. But even the lowest of the low, Dreadnought Jr sells for about $800+ tax new. Good luck getting one used for $400.
Your situation has got to be about the most unique I've seen. Haven't come across many that have a guitar like that and want to go down the food chain that far.
In my opinion you're not going to get much money for a 75 D-18. Its vintage but those weren't desirable years. Probably worth about as much money as selling a recent used D-18 as long as its in very very good condition.


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

Keep your eye out for a high end 70's/early 80's MIJ copy.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Also, an older Sigma Martin or one of the new Sigmas.


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## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

To clarify---meant to say' Martin like' sound. Obviously even the lowest Martin is above my proposed budget. How do the Yamaha 'red label' compare?


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

Eastman. used


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

The new D-18s are "my sound" but there are situations I wouldn't bring mine to. I went with a Yamaha FG830 for those times. Like the new D-18s, it has scalloped bracing too give it more bass.

I actually have an audio comparison somewhere vs my 2014 D-18 and a Sigma. I'll see if I can find it tonight. The Yamaha sounded much better than the Sigma IMHO.

Other than that check out Sigma, Eastman and Blueridge.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

I spend a time searching “acoustic japan” for 3-4 years. Went through 4 solid top el Degas beasts. They were all in the $250-$550. They could hold their own with the big guys.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

2014 Martin D-18 vs Sigma DR-1ST vs Yamaha FG830.

Sounds like the strings on the Yamaha need replacing.


__
https://soundcloud.com/id%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fsoundcloud.com%252Fguncho%252Fsept-2016-test-martin-sigma-yamaha%252Fs-ClVvj%3Bsecret_token%3Ds-ClVvj%3Btrack_id%3D675481895


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## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> ...….Probably worth about as much money as selling a recent used D-18 as long as its in very very good condition.


Unfortunately a well known Toronto Martin Authorised repair shop broke the heel of the neck during the reset leaving a visible crack line. Also the neck had to be tinted darker to hide small black marks in the '12th fret' area and visible scratches around the neck joint - not much player's damage but more repair damage.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

ed2000 said:


> Unfortunately a well known Toronto Martin Authorised repair shop broke the heel of the neck during the reset leaving a visible crack line. Also the neck had to be tinted darker to hide small black marks in the '12th fret' area and visible scratches around the neck joint - not much player's damage but more repair damage.


Yeah those repairs will probably hurt the value more than some player wear. If it were me I'd hold on to it. Especially since you've had it so long. Despite the repairs thats been done, I'll bet it sounds fantastic.
To me the value you'd get out of it wouldn't be worth it. And I wouldn't be too worried about theft. Just make sure its insured. Of course my idea of value is probably a lot different. I've got about 21k tied up in to 3 guitars amd I'll take those guitars to campfire jams or where ever.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Tokai Cat's Eyes. All rosewood and about 3 to 600 depending on the model. Even more if you go for a ce-1200. Cat's eyes were made at same time as Tokai supplying Martin with parts for Made in USA guitars. This is the back of a CE-300


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## MarGib (Aug 20, 2019)

bolero said:


> Eastman. used


This ^^^^^^


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

bolero said:


> Eastman. used


I know a guy selling a couple 

That said, Eastmans don’t really sound like Martins, in my experience.


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

What is it about the Martin that you like other than the happy feeling of looking at the logo on the headstock?

Yours isn't in collector's condition so you won't make heaps of money and you've had it a long time so there's some story in it. Selling it sounds like a quick path from here to regret. 

There are boat loads of D18 knockoffs from the 80s some of them are really good. I've got an 80s Korean made Aspen A-18 which is worth $50 on a good day. I've had it since I was in high school and it's a damn fine guitar that stands up against many Martins from that era. You can have it by prying it from my cold dead hands and even then I'll fight you for it. 

j


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

Wardo said:


> Also, an older Sigma Martin or one of the new Sigmas.


+1. I've got a 1980 MIJ Sigma Anniversary that is as good as any D18 I've ever played. Don't tell anyone though. It's a well kept secret.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

BEACHBUM said:


> +1. I've got a 1980 MIJ Sigma Anniversary that is as good as any D18 I've ever played. Don't tell anyone though. It's a well kept secret.


Friend of mine picked up an old Sigma dred not sure what year or model but I think it has Martin Sigma on the headstock. Anyway, he got it for $40. The bridge had lifted but it was in good shape o/wise. Got the repairs done and set up etc. It’s a really good sounding guitar and I have three Martin dreds to compare it too.

The new Sigmas distributed by that German company aren’t bad either but you need to play a few and pick the best on. I have their DR28V which plays like a Martin and is sorta in the same ballpark for sound characteristics. Got it as a beater; 650 new and after trying a bunch of guitars in the 1000 range this was the most Martin like that I could find. It doesn’t sound as good as my Martin HD28V but through a PA or whatever at some thrash fest there ain’t many people gonna notice the different.


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

Wardo said:


> through a PA or whatever at some thrash fest there ain’t many people gonna notice


The terrible but true thing about playing acoustic guitar is that unless you consistently play for audiences of 5 or in the studio the player is the only one who gets to appreciate the big beautiful resonance of the thing. The audience hears the pickup, effects, and amp just like an electric player. If the strings and fretboard are set up well the rest of the instrument can be really awful and still sound like a million bucks on stage. 
j


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I put a K&K into my Sigma and also a DeArmond magnetic sound hole pickup so tw0 jacks, one for each pickup. Run two amps, again one for each pickup, and it produces some big sound. Neck is good and intonation is good so this guitar works well and if I get rolled I'm not out that much for the guitar. I've also found that running the two pickups separately into channel one and channel two on a Deluxe produces a better acoustic sound in a loud setting than my Traynor Acoustic Amp.


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## Larry (Sep 3, 2016)

If it needs a LOT of work, Send it back to Martin to get completely resurrected , or just trade it in and ( take what you can get), on a New D 18.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

BEACHBUM said:


> +1. I've got a 1980 MIJ Sigma Anniversary that is as good as any D18 I've ever played. Don't tell anyone though. It's a well kept secret.


Owners of low end guitars always say something like this but the reality is, its not true in any context except for the fact that it sounds better than a D-18 you don't own because a D-18 you don't own doesn't make any sound for you. 
I've owned a few sigmas from the 70's and early 80's when they were fairly well built and they were good guitars. But there was a reason I aspired to the standard line (and now to the authentic series)


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

guitarman2 said:


> Owners of low end guitars always say something like this but the reality is, its not true in any context except for the fact that it sounds better than a D-18 you don't own because a D-18 you don't own doesn't make any sound for you.
> I've owned a few sigmas from the 70's and early 80's when they were fairly well built and they were good guitars. But there was a reason I aspired to the standard line (and now to the authentic series)


I agree with this. I have 1970's Morris MIJ D-18 copy and a Red Label MIJ Yamaha. They are both excellent guitars but they are not a Martin, or a Gibson, or any other brand. They are their own thing. If the OP is looking for a decent guitar that has a Martin like sound all of the suggestions here will work. I get what he is asking for. I sold a very high end Larrivee because I was afraid to play it out of the house. My advice to the OP is keep your Martin and buy a cheaper guitar to use as a player. Any of the suggestions in this thread will work for that. I have a Yamaha LL16M that I use to play out. It is a very well made and great sounding guitar. It doesn't sound like a Martin but nothing but a Martin will ever sound exactly like a Martin. Perception in the mind of the player is a big part of a guitar's sound. Once you get over that fact a whole world of great sounding guitars, each with a unique personality, will be available to you. Try a bunch of guitars in your price range and pick the one that sounds and feels the best to you. Don't compare it to the Martin but evaluate it on it's own.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Wardo said:


> Friend of mine picked up an old Sigma dred not sure what year or model but I think it has Martin Sigma on the headstock. Anyway, he got it for $40. The bridge had lifted but it was in good shape o/wise. Got the repairs done and set up etc. It’s a really good sounding guitar and I have three Martin dreds to compare it too.
> 
> The new Sigmas distributed by that German company aren’t bad either but you need to play a few and pick the best on. I have their DR28V which plays like a Martin and is sorta in the same ballpark for sound characteristics. Got it as a beater; 650 new and after trying a bunch of guitars in the 1000 range this was the most Martin like that I could find. It doesn’t sound as good as my Martin HD28V but through a PA or whatever at some thrash fest there ain’t many people gonna notice the different.


I played dozens and dozens of Sigma's in the early 80s - a music store I worked in was a dealer. We were also a Martin dealer, and while I didn't get to play dozens and dozens of them, a Martin would have to be one of the really bad ones (few and far between) to not stand out. They rang like a bell compared to the Sigmas. Moreso in acoustics than electrics, you get what you pay for, and have to pay up front to get it (no tonal upgrade paths).

I also don't worry about playing out with my guitars. Depending on the environment/situation, I'll will happily take out my Takamine, D18 or Lowden. Just depends on the crowd.

As for the OP, I'd keep and play what you have. If you're used to the D18's tone, it is unlikely you will find a reasonable replacement for <$1k.


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> Owners of low end guitars always say something like this but the reality is, its not true.........



And owners of expensive guitars always take exception to it. I guess my best response is that in years gone by I spent a ton of bucks for these two. That was before I realized that myth, legend and the name on the head stock say far less about a guitar than the actual specs. These two are gone now, the Sigma remains and as I sit here thinking about it I have to confess that I don't miss them at all.

Taylor 810









Martin DC Aura


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

Wardo said:


> two amps, again one for each pickup


I end up playing acoustic mostly at smallish events where I'm one among several performers with little or no setup. In those cases I use my Zoom A3 as a DI plug and play fast and reliable and sounds decent. If I'm going to set up 2 amps or amp and cab plus effects then more and more I end up playing an electric guitar. 

I do like playing acoustic through a good mic with some piezo through the Tak pre-amp blended in the background about 40% but ends up rarely happening any more. That remains the best amplified acoustic sound I've ever gotten but you've got to know and like your sound man for it to work and sit still while playing which is the dealbreaker for me I'm too fidgety and got used to moving around. 

j


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

BEACHBUM said:


> And owners of expensive guitars always take exception to it. I guess my best response is that in years gone by I spent a ton of bucks for these two. That was before I realized that myth, legend and the name on the head stock say far less about a guitar than the actual specs. These two are gone now, the Sigma remains and as I sit here thinking about it I have to confess that I don't miss them at all.
> 
> Taylor 810
> 
> ...


I'm an owner of both expensive and cheap guitars so not sure what you're point is. Many will live in ignorant bliss that their Asian knock off is as good or better than the high end guitar and thats fine. I don't have a problem. Others cannot justify that much income going in to a guitar and thats fine to. The "legend" of Martin is so for a reason. And although I'm a huge Martin fanboy I don't deny that when it comes to fit and finish there are smaller boutique companies that are better and for tone they've got it going on as well although none of them nail the Martin tone exactly although usually that is not their aim as they are trying to make their own sound. 
Then their is the Prewar company that is supposed to be making guitars that have that prewar sound better than the Martin Authentics. If I ever get a chance to play one and find that is so, I will have no problem admitting it. You see I live in reality.

As for the Taylor 810 you have pictured there, back in 1991 when I finally had enough scratch to buy my first D-28 I had a moment where I decided to play some other guitars to make sure I was making the right decision. It came down to a duel between a D-28 standard and a Taylor 810. It took almost 4 hours going back and forth before I could make a decision. That 810 was slick for sure. Played like an electric, which back then is what I mostly played.
In the end it couldn't come close to competing with the cannon that was that D-28. The Martin sound is the sound I had in my head since I was able to walk, listening to my daddy and his friends play.
I've played and owned just about everything including some beautiful 1930's and 1940's prewar Martins. You know. The era where Martin truly made their name.
So I'm not one to not listen to tone and judge a guitar by the head stock name as you inferred.
I find great things about guitars from $200 to $100k. And I play them all the same. I won't knock anyone who loves the sound of their $500 knock off. But I will discount them as severely uneducated when they say its sounds as good as or bests the high end several thousand dollar guitars. Whether it be a Martin, Collings, Bourgeois, etc.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> If you're used to the D18's tone, it is unlikely you will find a reasonable replacement for <$1k.


It depends on how much compromise the OP is willing to tolerate. Some people have no problem going down. They either don't hear\feel the differences that much or don't care, just as long as they have a guitar of some sort with acceptable tone and feel.
I'm that way with cars. As long as I have a car that gets me from Point A to Point B reliably, I don't care. I bought a $25k car brand new to run in to the ground. I could have afforded 40k but my priority isn't with a high end vehicle.
Guitars however. I don't mind spending 50% more for a 3% improvement. I'm willing to accept the "diminishing returns".


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> I'm an owner of both expensive and cheap guitars so not sure what you're point is. Many will live in ignorant bliss that their Asian knock off is as good or better than the high end guitar and thats fine. I don't have a problem. Others cannot justify that much income going in to a guitar and thats fine to. The "legend" of Martin is so for a reason. And although I'm a huge Martin fanboy I don't deny that when it comes to fit and finish there are smaller boutique companies that are better and for tone they've got it going on as well although none of them nail the Martin tone exactly although usually that is not their aim as they are trying to make their own sound.
> Then their is the Prewar company that is supposed to be making guitars that have that prewar sound better than the Martin Authentics. If I ever get a chance to play one and find that is so, I will have no problem admitting it. You see I live in reality.
> 
> As for the Taylor 810 you have pictured there, back in 1991 when I finally had enough scratch to buy my first D-28 I had a moment where I decided to play some other guitars to make sure I was making the right decision. It came down to a duel between a D-28 standard and a Taylor 810. It took almost 4 hours going back and forth before I could make a decision. That 810 was slick for sure. Played like an electric, which back then is what I mostly played.
> ...



Oddly enough I possess all of the "credentials" concerning this matter as you do. I've been playing for well over 50 years. I've owned and still own very expensive and very inexpensive guitars and I have the where with all to own virtually any guitar I so desire. Yet still we are diametrically opposed on this issue. In any case and pleas to a higher authority aside over the years like most I believed that Gibson, Fender, Gretsch and the like were the end all be all of electric guitars and back in the day that was for the most part true. But the world has moved on since then. Today I am noticing that the majority (especially younger players) have embraced the fact that the current competition has not only caught up with but to a great extent surpassed both the quality and cost effectiveness of those iconic builders.

For most of my playing life and until recent years I played a 72 Guild D40 and loved it even though cork sniffers of that time dubbed it as the "Poor Mans Martin." Of course it was never that and I knew it all along. What I couldn't figure out was why they didn't know that as well. I'm still hearing that same old story from todays cork sniffers when it comes to these next generation high quality moderately priced acoustics and I'm seeing it as mirroring what has been going on in the electric guitar market. You can continue in denial if you like but from the lowly to the grandiose I've played them for over half a century and I'm hear to tell you that the game has changed.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Not sure what you're trying to turn this conversation in to beachbum, other than some kind of pissing contest. What I'm basically saying, pertaining to the OP is that you're not going to find a $400 guitar that will sound, play and feel like a $3,400 guitar, the price of a new Martin D-18 that would likely be a comparison to the OP's 70's D-18.
Or hypothetically if the OP could get say $2,400 for his a $400 compared to that. You could shop for the best sounding $400 guitar to go against the worst sounding comparable $2,400 and you wouldn't likely match it with the cheaper guitar. Or else everybody would be doing it.
Martin is only referenced because in the OP he owns a Martin.
The advice he is seeking is selling his guitar for a comparable guitar for $400. The smart advice tells him its not gonna happen. Then there's your advice. You're proof that experience isn't always king.
I'm the guy that toured professionally through the 80's and half the 90's with a $700 guitar and a $500 amp with about $200 in pedals on the floor. Just the standard basic stuff. Through that time period I owned Sigmas and knock off brand guitars. I loved them. Cause I learned alot of music on them. 
My thirst for high end and boutique gear only came about after I established a career making good money that I could afford it. Inexpensive or expensive probably didn't matter much on stage as long as your heart was in it.
But at home high end gear is a lot of fun and you can hear all the nuances and notice the difference that is quality


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

The OP is not expecting to find a $400 guitar that sounds as good as a Martin D-18. He just wants a guitar in "that vein".


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Guncho said:


> The OP is not expecting to find a $400 guitar that sounds as good as a Martin D-18. He just wants a guitar in "that vein".


His exact words "A more economical replacement for $400".
How about if I said "A more economical replacment for a Land Rover for $20k".

What characteristics would a $400 guitar share with a D-18 Standard to make it a replacement? Well I guess six strings and a sound hole.
My disagreement that he'll find anything even resembling the D-18 for $400 is not an opinion that you can't get a nice sounding acoustic for $400. 
So I guess the advice would be go out and try as many used dreadnoughts as you can till you hear one you like. While you're at it put your memory of what the D-18 sounds like right out of your head.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

ed2000 said:


> To clarify---meant to say' Martin like' sound.


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> Not sure what you're trying to turn this conversation in to beachbum, other than some kind of pissing contest.


Hang on there Hoss. I'm just making a point same as you. If it pisses you off then that's on you not me. Besides I'm not the one directing terms like "ignorant bliss" and "severely uneducated" at those who disagree with him.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> ...
> How about if I said "A more economical replacment for a Land Rover for $20k".


I don’t disagree with a lot of the stuff you’ve said about guitars so far but I’d take a new Ford F-150 work truck over a Land Rover as a daily driver any day .. lol


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Wardo said:


> Land Rover


Pretentious status symbol that costs a shitload to constantly repair.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Pretentious status symbol that costs a shitload to constantly repair.


And they come off the line with the check engine light all lit up.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I wouldn't reference the new generation as reason to believe <$1k guitars are at least as good as +$3k guitars. They also think mp3's sound as good as LP's. Perhaps, like our sense of smell, human's sense of hearing is diminishing generation after generation. I couldn't tolerate what this current generation thinks sounds good. 

And no surprise they have adopted less expensive instruments. We all did at that age. I bet, like us, the few that can hear the diff between hi res audio files and mp3's will also be looking for $3k and $4k guitars, when they can finally afford them. Just a hunch.


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## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

Larry said:


> If it needs a LOT of work, Send it back to Martin to get completely resurrected , or just trade it in and ( take what you can get), on a New D 18.


After the messy repair I did contact Martin, sent pictures and the reply from them was, "It's a wooden guitar and sometimes things break during the repair process. We can't be held responsible." The 12th Fret's story was they blamed Martin for using the wrong glue at the neck joint and that's why the heel split in two. It didn't affect the tone and that's where it ended. They did offer to refinish and polish the broken heel and touch up the fretboard. During that time I had health issues for a few years and didn't pursue the fact that it looked like a botched repair.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

ed2000 said:


> After the messy repair I did contact Martin, sent pictures and the reply from them was, "It's a wooden guitar and sometimes things break during the repair process. We can't be held responsible." The 12th Fret's story was they blamed Martin for using the wrong glue at the neck joint and that's why the heel split in two. It didn't affect the tone and that's where it ended. They did offer to refinish and polish the broken heel and touch up the fretboard. During that time I had health issues for a few years and didn't pursue the fact that it looked like a botched repair.


I think these aesthetic issues are going to affect the value such that it would be better to keep it and enjoy how it sounds rather than trading down to a guitar worth a few hundred dollars. 
If it plays great and sounds great then its going to have value in keeping it. Trying to sell it with visible botched repairs, will have pretty much all potential buyers low balling the hell out of you.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

When I read some comments on forums like this, I often wonder if the same people that can't hear a difference between $600 acoustic guitars and $4000 acoustic guitars are the same people that claim they can hear the difference between tube amps and high-end modelers/profilers. 

I guess I wonder that because I am quite the opposite in those respects. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I don't recall anyone saying anything like that.

I think a lot of people are completely missing the point of what the OP was asking.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

No? I've seen a few posts here - and lots elsewhere - that claim their XXX brand copy is at least as good as the Martin it's aping, and probably better. At of course 1/2 to 1/4 the price.

Not the OP in the case, but the comments are there if you go looking.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> When I read some comments on forums like this, I often wonder if the same people that can't hear a difference between $600 acoustic guitars and $4000 acoustic guitars are the same people that claim they can hear the difference between tube amps and high-end modelers/profilers.
> 
> I guess I wonder that because I am quite the opposite in those respects. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.


I have not heard a profile from something like a kemper or any thing else that would be considered a high end modeler but I've played through and owned lots of modeler pedal boards and some good solid state amps and there is a noticeable difference but mostly in the way it feels and responds. 
Taking my current tube amp I've never heard anything digital that gets that warm sound and over tones or when pushed breaks up as smoothly. 
Perhaps thats the rage about these Kemper units that can emulate this I don't know I've never heard them. I've been tempted to try them but have avoided it as it seems getting setup with one seems complicated. Thats a strange reaction since I have worked in IT for over 25 years and you'd think that I would relish the technology but when it comes to my playing I just want "stupid simple". And tube amps is what I know.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

High/Deaf said:


> When I read some comments on forums like this, I often wonder if the same people that can't hear a difference between $600 acoustic guitars and $4000 acoustic guitars are the same people that claim they can hear the difference between tube amps and high-end modelers/profilers.
> 
> I guess I wonder that because I am quite the opposite in those respects. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.


I can hear the differences but just because there is a difference doesn't mean one is better. I was at a group lesson at Blue Dog guitars sitting beside a fellow with a Lowden Sinker Redwood. I had my Yamaha LL16M. There was definitely a difference. I preferred my Yamaha. It projected better and had better mids. I found his Lowden very bright, almost brittle. Another fellow had a Martin. Not sure of the model. It was quite a small guitar. I would have traded him my Yamaha on the spot. Different doesn't always mean better. It is in the ear of the player/listener and possibly the fingers of the player. I was using a pick as was the Lowden player. The Martin player was a finger picker.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Sure, different doesn't equate to better. Really, there is no such thing as reference standard for production tones, unlike reproduction tones.

But if you go with the general consensus, I think most people who play, listen or record a lot of acoustic guitar will align a certain way. And it ain't 'falling all over' the $400 guitar - except maybe for novelty or unique sounds.

Or maybe all those pros that have recorded and toured with higher end guitars have been fooled for decades? The decades of recording good guitars has defined what we expect a good sounding acoustic to be and skewed the landscape away from laminated, $400 guitars? There's no accounting for taste and some people have never heard a good guitar and just don't know how good they can sound. Or never played a high end digital amp, so don't know it is indistinguishable from their prized tube amp (proven over and over again in blind listening tests - people not listening with their eyes).

There are certainly examples of some pros choosing more pedestrian guitars for stage use. I've seen lots of pics of the Eagles and Garth Brooks proudly displaying Takamine logos. But did they record with those? I'm guessing no. Did some money change hands for that to happen? It wouldn't surprise me.

I, too, play a Tak live in certain circumstances. But for recording, my Lowden kills it dead. No comparison. In fact, I have yet to hear a Yamaha, any Yamaha, come within 1000 miles of it - and I've played hundreds and sold dozens of them. But again, to each his own. Play what you love and love what you play.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

***DUPLICATE***


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Kerry Brown said:


> I can hear the differences but just because there is a difference doesn't mean one is better. I was at a group lesson at Blue Dog guitars sitting beside a fellow with a Lowden Sinker Redwood. I had my Yamaha LL16M. There was definitely a difference. I preferred my Yamaha. It projected better and had better mids. I found his Lowden very bright, almost brittle. Another fellow had a Martin. Not sure of the model. It was quite a small guitar. I would have traded him my Yamaha on the spot. Different doesn't always mean better. It is in the ear of the player/listener and possibly the fingers of the player. I was using a pick as was the Lowden player. The Martin player was a finger picker.


It depends on what the player wants and the situations they'll use the guitar as well. Bright and brittle to you may have been a guitar that cuts through the mix to the player. I love my D-18 authentic for its ability to cut through a mix. 
As well everyones ears are different. I know for a fact that I've got hearing loss in the top end so I prefer brighter sounding guitars.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Strings play a big part too. Moreso with better guitars IME. My Tak is fairly forgiving from string brand to brand, type to type. My D18 and F35 show the detail of different string types, for better and for worse. Some strings sound great while others leave you wanting and wondering where the magic went.

It's like a better video monitor will show a bad film transfer while a low res monitor will mask the mistakes, making everything look the same (fuzzy).


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Picks play a part too, while we are micro analyzing tone.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I purchased an Alvarez MD-60 a couple of years ago used for $300.00 including case. Several months later I was at my Fredericton L & M playing a D-18 and realized it sounded very close to my Alvarez..New they are close to $800.00 but if you find a used one they can often be had for under $500.00. I just happened on a great deal. They have similar specs to the D-18 and that likely accounts for the similar sound.

You can get a new one in Canada at the Acoustic Room in Hamilton or on eBay.

MD60BG - Alvarez Guitars

ALVAREZ MD60BG BLUEGRASS SERIES SOLID DREADNOUGHT ACOUSTIC GUITAR WITH CASE | eBay

Alvarez - MD60 Bluegrass Dreadnaught


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

guitarman2 said:


> It depends on what the player wants and the situations they'll use the guitar as well. Bright and brittle to you may have been a guitar that cuts through the mix to the player. I love my D-18 authentic for its ability to cut through a mix.
> As well everyones ears are different. I know for a fact that I've got hearing loss in the top end so I prefer brighter sounding guitars.


I totally agree that you have to suit the guitar to the task at hand. That's why most of us keep buying guitars


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Budda said:


> Picks play a part too, while we are micro analyzing tone.


I totally agree. I'm one of those stupid enough to spend $50 on a blue chip. I bought 2 and will probably buy a couple more.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Budda said:


> Picks play a part too, while we are micro analyzing tone.


And the white fender 351s are harder plastic than the brown 351s so they sound different too .. lol


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

High/Deaf said:


> But for recording, my Lowden kills it dead. No comparison. In fact, I have yet to hear a Yamaha, any Yamaha, come within 1000 miles of it


I didn't mean to say the Lowden sounded bad. It was spectacular guitar that had an amazing tone. In the setting we were in, a dozen guitars in a group lesson, it was noticeably brighter than the rest of the guitars. In fairness it was a brand new guitar. I think he had only had it for a week or so. I'm sure as it ages it will mellow out a bit. I would have traded him on the spot, (as if). I can walk into almost any guitar store and pick up a Yamaha. A Sinker Redwood Lowden is a special beast. The quality of the build was spectacular.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Wardo said:


> And the white fender 351s are harder plastic than the brown 351s so they sound different too .. lol


Precisely.


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## Blind Dog (Mar 4, 2016)

I bought an obscure 1978 L series Yamaha for $150 a couple of years ago. I had an '88 D-28p. I bought the L for a grandson type. I preferred, by a fairly wide margin, the Yamaha to the Martin. The grandson type ended up with little Taylor. (Bad 'Grumpy'.)


Yamaha LCX-5E



I don't think you can just go out and buy a $400 guitar that will compete with a (traditional line) vintage Martin. If you try enough used offerings, you might run across a gem tho. 

Many old K. Yairi dread's are pretty sweet, and commonly sub $400. A scruffy Guild D-35 _might_ be had for $400 or so. They sound like nice big dread's. 

All the best in your search.

(+1 Martins are fine instruments. You likely won't find a $400 sound-alike without _major_ effort & patience.)


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I ended up with a Traynor plastic pick, purple and about the same thickness as my beloved tort Fender 1.21mm's. I picked it up off the coffee table in the dark and immediately noticed a tonal difference while playing acoustic. I'm blown away with how tiny pick differences make significant tonal differences with acoustics. Not so much with electrics though - to me that's more about grip and comfort.



Kerry Brown said:


> I didn't mean to say the Lowden sounded bad. It was spectacular guitar that had an amazing tone. In the setting we were in, a dozen guitars in a group lesson, it was noticeably brighter than the rest of the guitars. In fairness it was a brand new guitar. I think he had only had it for a week or so. I'm sure as it ages it will mellow out a bit. I would have traded him on the spot, (as if). I can walk into almost any guitar store and pick up a Yamaha. A Sinker Redwood Lowden is a special beast. The quality of the build was spectacular.


I didn't take it as a slight or anything. I agree, some guitars are just right for the situation. No better or worse, just what we prefer.

It should be noted, though, that there really isn't a singular Lowden tone. The F35 model alone comes with 9 different body woods and a variety of soundboards per body wood. Probably 40 or 50 combinations and permutations in that one model and body shape. Add the other body shapes (O, S, etc), options like body bevels, and the '35' range is wider than either Taylor or Martin's whole catalog, maybe more than both combined. Then there's the '50' range and the other models in the line. Plus, artist models and now a cheaper laminated line.

Buying hand-made guitars is much more "if you like it, you should buy it" than production run guitars. Harder to find the exact guitar you played down the road, if you do come to your senses. LOL


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

High/Deaf said:


> Buying hand-made guitars is much more "if you like it, you should buy it" than production run guitars. Harder to find the exact guitar you played down the road, if you do come to your senses. LOL


This pretty much says it all.


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