# Why does my guitar suck?



## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

Im new at playing (5 months or so) but the high frets on my guitar sound bad....

go to :50 for the high frets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kGYgYnGFwU

I know i suck sry

so does the guitar need a tune up or should i look into a new guitar


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## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

or do i just suck


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## Boyko (Dec 21, 2008)

Its never the guitar, sorry to say. Unless it has feedback or a short, its never the guitar.

Try adjusting the tone and volume, as well as distortion. Too much treble and too much gain makes a bad sounding lead, especially with single coils. 

Depending on the sound you're chasing it could be any number of things really. But usually you can get a decent sound out of anything if you know how to fiddle with the tone and volumes right. Try setting everything on the amp or pedal at the middle, and adjust higher or lower based on your preference.

As for the guitar controls, roll off the volume a bit (around 8) and the tone about the same. This is usually a good spot to work from, as it doesn't overload the guitar pickups, causing even more distortion.

Besides, most stuff that high doesn't sound that great anyways. I believe it was Johnny Cash that said "There's no money above the 5th fret."

One thing is for sure, you don't suck. You just need some practice, keep at it!

PS I wouldn't suggest throwing money at the problem to make it go away. Practice and learning first, then you can go blow some money on a fancy new pedal and amp.


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## Andy (Sep 23, 2007)

I assume you're unhappy with the shrillness of the high notes.

Try turning up the mids and turning down the treble. Also, put the tone and volume knobs on your guitar to 8.

Usually those minor adjustments will give you a tone that cuts through smoothly, rather than a strident mess.


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## Boyko (Dec 21, 2008)

Andy, thats what I said, but less wordy. Great minds and all that I suppose.


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## gerald guerrero (Oct 3, 2006)

No offence, but i think your guitar, your tone and you BOTH suck.
Pay your dues and quit the eff whining. Hell, I been playing for 35 years. You think you can become a guitar wizard overnight? Thats also a cheap guitar you have there, which is okay, I aint knocking it, but it is waht it is.
In the end when youve studied guitar and played it quite alot ( and no, doesnt have to be 35 years)& found a proffesional grade instrument set up by a skilled luthier to play you will not suck. trust me.
Go get a set up on thhat guitar, ask alot of questions about pickups and amps and play the hell out of it. Youll become more accomplished at an alarming rate.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

Technique, tone and volume have already been mentioned. One more point that I haven't seen in this thread is a common malady called Stratitis. If strat pickups are set too high, the magnets can pull on the strings when playing on the higher frets, usually above the 15th. This can cause weird overtones as well as intonation problems, especially with lighter strings. Simple fix, lower the pickups a bit. What little you lose in gain, you will make up in tone.

As for the gear vs. technique comments, read It's the Guitar's Fault by Tuck Andress.


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## cdub66 (Dec 13, 2007)

gerald guerrero said:


> No offence, but i think your guitar, your tone and you BOTH suck.
> Pay your dues and quit the eff whining.


Dude...uncalled for.


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## Boyko (Dec 21, 2008)

cdub66 said:


> Dude...uncalled for.


Ditto from me. Pro gear does not a guitar player make.


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## gerald guerrero (Oct 3, 2006)

Boyko said:


> Ditto from me. Pro gear does not a guitar player make.Dude...uncalled for


shheee! Don't take it that way. We are men here.


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## Boyko (Dec 21, 2008)

Yes, but apparently not gentlemen. 

But I digress. I would also suggest a setup if its playing badly, but I think he would rather fix the sound than the feel at this point. How many of you have learned on some terrible Harmony or Sears guitar? Its good for ya, puts hair on your knuckles.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Boyko said:


> Its good for ya, puts hair on your knuckles.


Nice analogy.

A good set up is important, but a set up is personal--so having some experience first what you like or don't like will help get a good one for you, as opposed to a good one for the guitar tech. When I've had someone else do a set up for me, it always comes back with the action too low for me. Even if I say I like the action where it is. I realize that may move during the set up--but try to get it close--not just put it real low.

That's why I've learned some of it over the years, and books like Dan Erlewine's Guitar Player Repair Guide have been so valuable.

But if you're new--it's better to take that slowly, and check with a good tech, but communicate with them, and get them t tweak it if needed.


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## blink (Jul 29, 2008)

I say practice, learn your guitar mechanically bit by bit, practice, learn to do your own setup, and practice. Pretty much in that order.

When you understand why your guitar is making "funny" noises, or the note(s) are dead at a certain fret you begin to understand how to fix it.

Everybody sucks when they start out and only practice and playing with other people will fix that.

A little encouragement and advice goes a long way I think.


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## CocoTone (Jan 22, 2006)

This is a joke thread,,,,right??!?

CT.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Get a teacher who can advise you about this in person, but it sounds to me like the guitar needs a set-up, you need to play with less distortion as it just masks real tone, and your pick stroke and left hand need some attention.

Take this as encouragement, please. Your issues aren't life threatening.

Peace, Mooh.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

cdub66 said:


> Dude...uncalled for.


+1 man...that was totaly uncalled for.


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

Pepper_Roni said:


> Im new at playing (5 months or so) but the high frets on my guitar sound bad....
> 
> go to :50 for the high frets
> 
> ...


Hey pepper_roni
In all seriousness you have only been playing guitar for 5 months. That is nothing !!! Guitar is not an easy instrument to play. Take your time, practise as much as you can or, as much as you want and you will get better. The time spent working at learning will pay off. 
Sounds like your guitar plays in tune. that is the most important thing. The high position you are talking about is most likely your playing and not the guitar. Give yourself some time. Don't be hard on yourself but put in the hours and then you will have a better idea of what might be lacking in the guitar you own. Don't waste your money buying another guitar. Play the hell out of this one.
Hey I've been playing since grade 3, I'm 53 now and I think I still suck in my mind.


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## Bernie (Oct 3, 2008)

Yeah I agree - work hard and practice. Also you don't suck, never think that way. I'm a newbie and I know what I need to do. I will not let certain types of people take away the joy and fun of learning this fine instrument. Oh yeah, don't ever let me post a video of my weak attempts at playing - too embarrassing. But you - keep it up, you're doing great!

P.S. This is the first time that I have seen any nastiness on this forum, what a shock because everybody here has been so supportive and pleasant to deal with.


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## soldierscry (Jan 20, 2008)

I agree with the setup but it would be easier to tell with a clean guitar sound what is going on. As for upgrading, I think the guitar you have is fine (once setup to your liking) just keep practicing, and try to avoid the slippery slop know as GAS...lol:rockon2:


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## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

haha thats ok I like this forum....


anyhow, I just wanted to check to make sure it wasn't the strat, no point in learning on a dead instrument . So i will continue practice.

In the back of my head I was hoping you guys would say it was the guitar  its so nice to stare at this one....

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/document?cpd=0OEY&doc_id=99371&base_pid=517413&index=5 

 happy playing


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

I'll agree with what everyone else has said - theres nothing wrong with the guitar. As you continue to play and practise, you'll discover that part of your technique is learning how to pick the strings in different ways, how to impart subtle vibrato on certain notes, how to adjust your amp, pedals and guitar knobs to get a certain sound. You are currently "missing" all of that knowledge, which is mostly why your guitar doesn't sound the same as the guitar you hear played on other guitarist records.

In short: keep practising. I think you sound great for having played for only 5 months.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

CocoTone said:


> This is a joke thread,,,,right??!?
> 
> CT.


No, but some of the responses are pretty scary.

I just watched the video again and I stand by my comment about Stratitis. It really stands out on the lower strings as the OP plays above the 12th fret. This is not a sign of a cheap guitar. It can happen on any Strat or Strat style copy that uses the standard Fender style single coil pickups. Just adjust the pickup height so it is a little farther from the strings. Simple 2 minute fix.

I should also add that this is not THE problem. It is only part of the problem. Practice and experience will help with the rest.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Yup definitely some issues with ability here. Best thing to do is first get a good setup on the guitar so that you can eliminate that as an obstacle. Then depending on how strong a desire you have to get better you may think about lessons. As for the guitar being cheap. Don't listen to anyone that tells you that. I just bought my daughter a Squire strat bullet (pink) that cost $120 new. Its more than any beginner needs to get going and actually the quality is such that I'd play it on stage if it weren't pink.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2009)

I've told this story before on this board but it bears repeating.

When I was a young lad of 13 I decided I was going to play guitar. My best friend sold me a Polish department store Les Paul type thing and a Dean Markley practice amp. And I went to town. And it was awful. So I decided to take lessons. My very first lesson I walked in there with this plywood-and-paper guitar and my teacher saw it was all, "Oh man! That's not an AXE that's a BASEBALL BAT! Let me see that thing..." I handed it over to him, he tuned it up, and then proceed to shred the hell out of that thing (this was 1990 so it was all about the speed...). He just flew over that guitar. And then he handed it back to me and we started our lesson.

In my very first lesson I learned very, very clearly a great guitar only makes you a _slightly_ better player.

18 years later, whenever I find myself hit with a particularly hard bought of G.A.S., I think back to that lesson and I pickup the nearest guitar and just get back to practicing. Nothing I've acquired gear-wise has made me a better musician or a better guitarist. I appreciate a good setup. I understand the nuances of the instrument a little better. But time and practice have no substitutes I'm afraid.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

iaresee said:


> I've told this story before on this board but it bears repeating.
> 
> When I was a young lad of 13 I decided I was going to play guitar. My best friend sold me a Polish department store Les Paul type thing and a Dean Markley practice amp. And I went to town. And it was awful. So I decided to take lessons. My very first lesson I walked in there with this plywood-and-paper guitar and my teacher saw it was all, "Oh man! That's not an AXE that's a BASEBALL BAT! Let me see that thing..." I handed it over to him, he tuned it up, and then proceed to shred the hell out of that thing (this was 1990 so it was all about the speed...). He just flew over that guitar. And then he handed it back to me and we started our lesson.
> 
> ...


A better guitar or amp may give you a better sound or at least more of a type of sound that you may be after. But I don't think it increases your ability even one iota.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2009)

Ok my two cents now. 

1. Play for yourself, always. Entertain yourself first, the crowds will follow.

2. Stop saying "I suck". Say "Hey, that's better than last time." I hear you say "suck" again, I'll club you.

3. Find a guitar buddy who is a couple of years but not more ahead of you. A great guitar teacher is not what you need at the present time. You can learn to run later, we're concentrating on walking straight right now.

4. Go to the guitar shop, get the sales guy or tech or whoever to do a setup and intonation and tell him you want to watch and learn, otherwise you'll come back every second day. He'll show you.

5. Next year a bout of GAS will be ok, even if its for a pedal or some doo-hickey. New toys always inspire and get you to play a bit more.

6. Minimum, one half-hour of picking and strumming per day for the rest of your life, healthy or ill. Did I say minimum?

7. Anyone who comes even close to cutting you down is to be ignored indefinitely. Stick around this board, there are some great players and mentors here. Their advice has been invaluable to me. Thank you fellows!


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

I don't know about the rest of you....but - for only a few months playing - I thought his technique was remarkably far along....after 5 months I was still like......pluck....look for the string....pluck....look for the fret, look for the string...pluck


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> A better guitar or amp may give you a better sound or at least more of a type of sound that you may be after. But I don't think it increases your ability even one iota.


I say slightly because I went from an acoustic with strings a mile off the fretboard to an electric with passable action and it was instantly easier to do things. So there's a _slight_ edge for better gear. But not much and it's quickly tapped out.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

gerald guerrero said:


> No offence, but i think your guitar, your tone and you BOTH suck.
> Pay your dues and quit the eff whining.




Wow. This is among the worst comments I can recall seeing here.


This is just a suggestion but I think an apology is appropriate. Heck I'M offended and it wasn't directed at me.

As for the original post, I agree that fattening up the sound can be accomplished with a little more mids and a little less high end. Make small adjustments and let your ear get used to the change before making more changes.


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## Andy (Sep 23, 2007)

Boyko said:


> Andy, thats what I said, but less wordy. Great minds and all that I suppose.


Sorry about that -- I didn't bother reading replies, just typed up my own.

Now that you mention it, they're awful alike -- great minds, indeed. :smile:


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

Pepper_Roni said:


> Im new at playing (5 months or so) but the high frets on my guitar sound bad....
> 
> go to :50 for the high frets
> 
> ...



well, you don't suck. you can hear rythym and you can play in key, so. if you were tone deaf (a lot rarer than people think), you wouldn't even hear anything off on the high frets. 

most of what you're defining as a "bad tone" comes from three thing that i see from your video. one, you're using a single coil pickup to play very high gain sounds, and you should probably look into a guitar with humbuckers.

second, the guitar probably needs an intonation (i find it hard to hear from the video, as you're playing the single notes.. well... singly.. so i can't really tell if the intonation is a bit out, but it's usually a bit out on cheaper guitars, so it's an educated guess).

thirdly is technique. there's one thing i notice right away, that you're doing all downstrokes when you pick. all the great players use "alternate picking" to at least a large degree (metallica do a lot of downstroke picking, it's more common in metal.. but it's important to note that metallica do it by choice, not because they can't alternate pick). another thing i would correct in a student (although there are some great players with odd techniques) is the way you're holding the pick, it's not tight enough into your fingers, you don't have good control the way you're holding it, i'd guess. it also makes for a rounder, fatter tone if you let the pick snap less off the string. also, playing up high on the neck takes a lot more hand strength and precision than a lot of new players realize. i would say you should work down low at first, and work your way up later on. 

the amp you're playing through is a line 6? it sounds like a modelling amp. i'm gonna start an argument here, most likely, but they all sound like crap. no mid-range presence, no dynamics. you're comparing yourself to players with tens of thousands of dollars worth of gear, and decades of playing experience, so go easy on yourself. 

as to mr gerald guerrero, two things.. 1) what, did you think this was harmony central? and 2) throw down, man. since you're so good, give the nice people here the benefit of your talents, i'm sure we could all learn a thing or two.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Paul said:


> I disagree a bit here. A great teacher is what we all need at all time. That said, how many choices will there be for great guitar teachers in Hudson Bay, SK?????
> 
> I would suggest that Pepper_Roni get the Erlewine Book and learn some important things from that.


I'm with you on this one Paul. Sometimes any old player just a year or 2 ahead of you can be the worst thing a beginner needs.


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## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

suttree said:


> well, you don't suck. you can hear rythym and you can play in key, so. if you were tone deaf (a lot rarer than people think), you wouldn't even hear anything off on the high frets.
> 
> most of what you're defining as a "bad tone" comes from three thing that i see from your video. one, you're using a single coil pickup to play very high gain sounds, and you should probably look into a guitar with humbuckers.
> 
> ...


THe amp is a peavey vypyr 75... I had the mids at 0 so thats why there was nothing there. I have trouble picking up... just feels weird. Lasty thats why I linked to the epiphone les paul standard. I has humbuckers and seems like a good guitar. I do like alot of high gain music... but i also like classics like dire straits.

PS

lol im not hurt by what gerald said.... I know im not that good im not gonna act like some fool on american idol screaming how good i am


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Pepper_Roni said:


> lol im not hurt by what gerald said.... I know im not that good im not gonna act like some fool on american idol screaming how good i am


Well, you have way more class than he has!


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

Pepper_Roni said:


> THe amp is a peavey vypyr 75... I had the mids at 0 so thats why there was nothing there. I have trouble picking up... just feels weird. Lasty thats why I linked to the epiphone les paul standard. I has humbuckers and seems like a good guitar. I do like alot of high gain music... but i also like classics like dire straits.
> 
> PS
> 
> lol im not hurt by what gerald said.... I know im not that good im not gonna act like some fool on american idol screaming how good i am


yah you should have the mids higher, maybe even halfway! most big metal players get a "scooped" sound by recording with a ton of mid, then it's eq'd post recording, they start by having the information there. it's your mids that are the most important, as they're a large part of what people hear in general, so they're a large part of your tone. 

as to picking upwards, trust me on this... force yourself. you're going to hit the ceiling, speed-wise, very quickly if you don't. it's really one of the most important techniques to playing lead. 

mark knopfler's been using a lot more les pauls lately, you can get that kind of tone easily with a les paul. the mistake i see most beginner/intermediate players making is overdoing their amp settings. too much volume, too much gain, too much bass, too much treble too little mid.. really the secret to good tone is pretty simple.... work on your technique as much as possible for dynamic control. better sustain also comes from the fingers, and don't let anyone tell you it's in a pedal. most players i've read interviews with on tone also say that you shuld have your guitar volume rolled down just a hair.


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## Andy (Sep 23, 2007)

suttree said:


> yah you should have the mids higher, maybe even halfway! most big metal players get a "scooped" sound by recording with a ton of mid, then it's eq'd post recording, they start by having the information there. it's your mids that are the most important, as they're a large part of what people hear in general, so they're a large part of your tone.


Yes! This doesn't get said enough...I wish I knew it when I started playing -- I would have been much happier with my tone.

The midrange control on your amp cuts and boosts a completely different frequency than what you want to cut for a scooped metal tone. It also has a wide bandwidth, which means you're taking away many frequencies, instead of a specific area.


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## Devil Baby (Jan 5, 2009)

Pepper_Roni said:


> THe amp is a peavey vypyr 75... I had the mids at 0 so thats why there was nothing there. I have trouble picking up... just feels weird. Lasty thats why I linked to the epiphone les paul standard. I has humbuckers and seems like a good guitar. I do like alot of high gain music... but i also like classics like dire straits.
> 
> PS
> 
> lol im not hurt by what gerald said.... I know im not that good im not gonna act like some fool on american idol screaming how good i am


I've been reading this board for awhile, and this thread finally made me want to post.

I'm a beginner too, and frankly this instrument is tough. Don't be too hard on yourself and just keep working at it. I think you have a great attitude and it's nice to see.

You just had to go and mention Dire Straits. I have an Epi LP standard that I'm trying to sell and if money wasn't so rough these days I'd probably just give it to you.

In my opinion, you are doing well for 5 months. Keep it going man!


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## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

First of all thanks for all the comments guys 

secondly... this is what im looking for on the high frets...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49KUDmHDYjM

Alot of it is probably me but i cant seem to get that sound on the strat... I love the sound of that solo... i cant really explain it lol. I sound like a high piched noise.... his vid there is so much tone and life into it lol. It may sound dumb but i sounds so much more alive (hes doing bends and stuff obviosly but i cant seem to get any of it right, 80 percent is probly me but humbuckers dont hurt at all )


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

1. You dont suck. 

2. Anyone that says you suck is someone with an opinion that means nothing.

3. Mids are your friends.

4. Play slowly, alternate pick and watch your timing.

5. Have fun and just play


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Paul said:


> You will never get the sound of a Les Paul type guitar out of a Strat type guitar. They are different animals.
> 
> My experience is that I have better success with higher gain tones on the bridge p'ups. The sound of a Stratocaster single coil bridge p'up is so very different from the sound of a Les Paul Bridge humbucker...it's like comparing an ice pick to a rubber mallet. Those are two very different hammers.


Also, I'm pretty sure the pickups switch for that guitar in the video was on the neck, which would explain why it sounds so much fatter than your strat. A single coil will always sound thinner compared to a humbucker, but when you compare a single coil in the bridge to a humbucker in the neck, the difference become much more pronounced.

Like everyone else has mentioned, I would suggest you play the heck out of your strat for now, and worry about perfecting your tone after you've honed your technique.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

1)Use the strat for Dire Straits type stuff. For ANYTHING heavier, use something with humbuckers.
2)tweak your amp settings as other have suggested, and maybe add some delay /chorus to the solo stuff (high notes)
3) Practice more. No offense, the vid wasnt horrible, but it was sloppy, and didnt have much feel...you need to add some personality to it with more expressive bends, vibratos, harmonics, etc. For the heavier stuff, try fixing your picking hand to the bridge instead of suspending it in midair the way you have it. From a metal perspective, I think your hand is too far forward.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Paul said:


> I think it would serve most beginner musicians well if they would focus more on creating music, and less on recreating music. There are lots of things we can learn from other musicians, and we learn much of it by trying to play what they played. But to make the goal of that learning process the ability to mimic the style, tone phrasing and nuance of someone else's work seems a bit weak to me. We would never be interested in going to a comedy club to hear an impressionist do 60 minutes of George Carlins best material, so why do we try to do that as musicians?


This is one thing I've tried to do in my own playing, and also something I tried to do when I was teaching. It was noticeable when my students played at festivals we had with other music schools. One teacher had several students that sounded like carbon copies of each other, and it was the same every year. Before knowing what they were going to play I could predict most of the songs, and I knew how they were going to sound. I always enjoyed listening to my students, because I tried to help them sound like themselves.



Paul said:


> Don't think that what you settle on now will last forever. 20 years ago I never used the neck p'up on a guitar. For the past 5 or 6 years, I've been almost exclusively on the neck p'up, and the tone knob is rolling bit darker every month. You and your musical voice will grow and develope and evolve.


This could describe me as well, although I probably ise the bridge pickup more than Paul does. But I too rarely used the neck pickup, now I use it far more than the bridge one. I rarely used to touch the tone controls, now I'm changing the tone from song to song.

Lots of good advice there.


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

Diablo said:


> 1)Use the strat for Dire Straits type stuff. For ANYTHING heavier, use something with humbuckers.


well, there's a lot of great heavy players who use strats, starting with heavy metal's reigning champ, tony iommi. the majority of metal guitars are super strats, really... all the ibanezes.... ibanezzes... ibani? anyways, those guitars are generally bolt-on, and many have an HSS setup. 

also, mark knopfler uses a les paul a LOT. like, half the time? his sig strat is a really weird thing, too... rosewood fretboard (he's usually on a maple), with fender pickups (i thought he used suhr all the time).. 



Pepper_Roni said:


> First of all thanks for all the comments guys
> 
> secondly... this is what im looking for on the high frets...
> 
> ...


that's pretty crappy tone, my friend. hahahah.. sorry but his playing was accurate, but his phrasing and his vibrato weren't good, and they made the solo sound a lot less musical, and a lot less toneful. it really, really, really is in the hands...


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## Pepper_Roni (May 29, 2008)

haha... ok so i know it wasant the best but think of the album version solo or maybe the first solo form master of puppets. they sound amazing


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## Orcslayer (Feb 2, 2009)

gerald guerrero said:


> No offence, but i think your guitar, your tone and you BOTH suck.
> 
> Totally uncalled for! Pep, I've been playing for 42 years & I think for 5 months you're doing just fine!
> 
> ...


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

suttree said:


> well, there's a lot of great heavy players who use strats, starting with heavy metal's reigning champ, tony iommi.


Maybe you could look at Tony's own site:

Tony Iommi: "In the very early days of the band, I was into playing a battered Fender Stratocaster. The Strat was the hot guitar in England at the time, so playing one was very much a status thing. I know that people like Jimi Hendrix had played one, and I think that made everyone think of them as being "in". I did own an SG at that time too, but it was little more than a backup guitar for me in case my Strat broke down. Then, right in the middle of recording our first record, one of my pickups stopped working. Back then, fixing a guitar pickup wasn't as easy as it is today and it was real work to change them. We only had two days in the studio to finish the entire record, so there was no time to waste. It was at that moment that I switched over to the SG, and *I never played the Stratocaster again*" (from Hit Parader Magazine, July 1993)

http://www.iommi.com/equipment/fender_stratocasters.htm


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

smorgdonkey said:


> We only had two days in the studio to finish the entire record, so there was no time to waste. It was at that moment that I switched over to the SG, and *I never played the Stratocaster again*" (from Hit Parader Magazine, July 1993)
> 
> http://www.iommi.com/equipment/fender_stratocasters.htm


ok, sorry bad example. how about dave murray from iron maiden? kk downing used a strat a lot. tom morello uses a tele a lot. richie blackmore. jimmy page used a tele a lot. kirk hammet uses strats sometimes, and his ESP is a strat with a floyd.

anyways, my point is there's lots of guys playing heavier music on strats, and whether you have a strat or a les paul won't make your tone better.


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## Devil Baby (Jan 5, 2009)

suttree said:


> also, mark knopfler uses a les paul a LOT. like, half the time? his sig strat is a really weird thing, too... rosewood fretboard (he's usually on a maple), with fender pickups (i thought he used suhr all the time)..


Yup - Knopfler's studio recordings are all over the board in terms of gear, but the Les Pauls get more than half of the stage time.

Pickups are "secret sauce" and custom, in general. He supposedly uses his signature strat, unmodified, for a lot of his strat work. I believe that guitar sports Fender's Texas specials.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

suttree said:


> *well, there's a lot of great heavy players who use strats, starting with heavy metal's reigning champ, tony iommi. the majority of metal guitars are super strats, really... all the ibanezes.... ibanezzes... ibani? anyways, those guitars are generally bolt-on, and many have an HSS setup. *
> also, mark knopfler uses a les paul a LOT. like, half the time? his sig strat is a really weird thing, too... rosewood fretboard (he's usually on a maple), with fender pickups (i thought he used suhr all the time)..
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, but not many of the heavier players you mention use strats with single coils. I dont think the guitar/neck is the key here, but the pickup certainly is. Other than Yngwie, I cant think of any metal player that commonly uses single coils.


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

I would back off on the amp's gain quite a lot, and try the neck pickup on your guitar. There are loads of wonderful woody, round, rich, full tones to be had at the neck position on a strat.

Play a few notes at various places on the neck and see how you like that sound.

Then play around with the amp a bit - dial the bass, mids and treble controls up and down, playing a few notes after each adjustment, and see what you like.

Often the solos on an album are recorded at completely different settings, and sometimes even with completely different gear, so don't worry if you can't get rhythm and lead sounds that both sound good on the same settings.

And in general, don't get discouraged. It takes a very long time to figure out what sounds you like and how to achieve what you like.

If I were you, I might be inclined to turn off the amp completely and just play the instrument by itself for a while. See what you can do without any distortion or effects or eq or anything. I think you'll find - as some others have mentioned - that it's all in the fingers.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2009)

Learning from a peer or as I pointed out, someone with a few more years experience is quite beneficial. I've been in post secondary education for 21 years and was training industry types four years prior. The so-called "master" is not always the best thing first. In fact I know a few who have bad habits of their own. The beauty of learning from another novice is the, get ready, "pissing contest" factor. You would be surprised how often the lesser player steps ahead of the experienced player in record time. At that point you step up to a better teacher. Sitting with the very best from the start doesn't guarantee quality. Really good teachers demand very good students, otherwise they get bored, trust me on this. A bored teacher doesn't fire on all eight cylinders for too long. There is a saying we've all heard "When the student is ready the teacher will appear". The student must be ready first, that's key.9kkhhd


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

i think youre doing fine-
when i had been playing a year, it was on a really bad acoustic with a dismantled microphone taped inside, pumped into my fathers solid state york stereo reciever. not impressive tone lol. i had better guitars and amps later, but dont recall worrying myself about my tone until i could afford it. play that guitar until it sounds good, better equipment down the road will only benefit from it.


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

Diablo said:


> Yes, but not many of the heavier players you mention use strats with single coils. I dont think the guitar/neck is the key here, but the pickup certainly is. Other than Yngwie, I cant think of any metal player that commonly uses single coils.


Tom Morello has said on MANY occasions that a majority of the heavy Rage riffs were his telecaster.


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

smorgdonkey said:


> Maybe you could look at Tony's own site:
> 
> Tony Iommi: "In the very early days of the band, I was into playing a battered Fender Stratocaster. The Strat was the hot guitar in England at the time, so playing one was very much a status thing. I know that people like Jimi Hendrix had played one, and I think that made everyone think of them as being "in". I did own an SG at that time too, but it was little more than a backup guitar for me in case my Strat broke down. Then, right in the middle of recording our first record, one of my pickups stopped working. Back then, fixing a guitar pickup wasn't as easy as it is today and it was real work to change them. We only had two days in the studio to finish the entire record, so there was no time to waste. It was at that moment that I switched over to the SG, and *I never played the Stratocaster again*" (from Hit Parader Magazine, July 1993)
> 
> http://www.iommi.com/equipment/fender_stratocasters.htm


oh well that is his loss isn't it? I think some single coil tones mixed in would have made a lot of his recordings sound even fatter.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

Guess Iommi wouldn't agree with that.. he wrings all the tone he needs from his SGs and amps.

On the other hand, I'd say he's a big enough man not to bother putting down people who play Strats... it just wasn't for him, period.


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## tranman (Feb 4, 2009)

Archer said:


> Tom Morello has said on MANY occasions that a majority of the heavy Rage riffs were his telecaster.


Pretty much anything in Drop D is on the tele.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Archer said:


> oh well that is his loss isn't it? I think some single coil tones mixed in would have made a lot of his recordings sound even fatter.


I don't think it is his loss. He played them. He knew what they were about. I suppose when he moved on he decided that he moved on to something that suited what he wanted better(?).


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## Diego (Feb 12, 2009)

Devil Baby said:


> I've been reading this board for awhile, and this thread finally made me want to post.
> 
> I'm a beginner too, and frankly this instrument is tough. Don't be too hard on yourself and just keep working at it. I think you have a great attitude and it's nice to see.
> 
> ...


AGREED:wave: I am also new to this forum and new to guitar playing, been playing for about 10 months. For only 5 months of playing you are doing VERY well. Personally I don't find guitar playing easy and have to work very hard at it and find it to be a real challenge BUT I also find it VERY rewarding when after much practice I finally get a certain song or solo right.sdsre Considering when I first started I could only play an A chord. Keep it up and hello to everyone else.:rockon2:


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Archer said:


> Tom Morello has said on MANY occasions that a majority of the heavy Rage riffs were his telecaster.


Ok thats 2 then. I dont know much about his musci, but its hard to find a pic of him playing the same guitar twice, and Tele's dont come up too often in a google search. http://images.google.com/images?ndsp=18&hl=en&q=tom+morello&start=36&sa=N


My point still stands, its almost unheard of to use single coils in metal.


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## nicmat42 (Dec 31, 2008)

someone said its never the guitar?
im going to have to disagree, if your intonation is off it will make you sound bad when you play those higher frets.
i generally don't play with knobs on the guitar, i would work on tweaking your amp. also, as some people have said on here, you don't have the best gear. BUT you have been playing for 5 months, you should be playing on that kind of stuff.
you have alot to learn about the guitar and all of its subtleties, just don't quit.
i heard some of that avenged sevenfold, not bad at all


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

tranman said:


> Pretty much anything in Drop D is on the tele.


And his tones are often quite massive.


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

smorgdonkey said:


> I don't think it is his loss. He played them. He knew what they were about. I suppose when he moved on he decided that he moved on to something that suited what he wanted better(?).


The Sabbath style is better served with humbuckers. Personally, I like mixing in tele or strat tones with thick fat humbucking tones to bring guitar tracks to life.

Some Sabbath stuff sounds mushy to me and I think a single coil layer would have helped out.


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

Diablo said:


> Ok thats 2 then. I dont know much about his musci, but its hard to find a pic of him playing the same guitar twice, and Tele's dont come up too often in a google search. http://images.google.com/images?ndsp=18&hl=en&q=tom+morello&start=36&sa=N
> 
> 
> My point still stands, its almost unheard of to use single coils in metal.



Google photos arent really a good source of what he uses in the studio. Live he prefers guitars with humbuckers to keep the buzzing down. The black custom shop strat and his old blue Performance guitar have been his main his main live instruments for most of his career.


I was talking about recording, and once again Tom talks about his Tele preference for recording heavy tracks a lot. He seems to get a kick out of it.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Single coils can do metal if you have the right coils, pedal and or amp.

My friend has a G&L 2500 with single coils and we switched guitars, he was plying my LTD EMG in his blues rig and I was playing his through my JSX on the same setting I had.
The singles were pretty close and with a touch more gain it was very close and actualy sounded very tight, clear and agressive...very usable.

Didn't the guy from System of a Down use an old JR with P-90's? Think Angus from AC DC used them as well, you can see it in some old pictures.
Not your metal pickup.

Bev


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

The first few KingsX albums were done with single coils (well lace sensors) and you can hear the single coil snap all over Tabor's tones. Later on when he moved over to full sized humbuckers his tone lost a bit of character in my opinion.

Some guys have a style that works with singles much better than humbuckers. Jag Tanna from I Mother Earth is another guy that used single coil pickups in a heavy setting and sounded awesome.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Archer said:


> Google photos arent really a good source of what he uses in the studio. *Live he prefers guitars with humbuckers to keep the buzzing down.* The black custom shop strat and his old blue Performance guitar have been his main his main live instruments for most of his career.
> 
> 
> I was talking about recording, and once again Tom talks about his Tele preference for recording heavy tracks a lot. He seems to get a kick out of it.


Fair enough. If you could post some sources that state he mainly uses single coil guitars for that sound, that would be appreciated. But I dont get the impression that the OP is doing recording.

But even so, again, thats still just 2 guys using them in heavy music (and one of them, by your own account, only in recording situations), amidst hundreds. If I was playing the odds, the smart money would be to go with something with humbuckers .


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

Most metal guys are using humbuckers, nobody can deny that. But singles can do the job in certain hands.

Yngwie is another guy that favors single coil tones and plays heavy stuff....yeah he uses stacks but his tone is very single coilish. Ritchie Blackmore is in the same boat.

Dean DeLeo of STP used nothing but single coil pickups on the 'Vatican Giftshop' album......though I wouldnt call STP a metal band.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Archer said:


> Some Sabbath stuff sounds mushy to me and I think a single coil layer would have helped out.


Yeah, those Sabbath recordings are really crappy. sigiifa


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

Strats are weird at first, especially if you've never played much guitar. I had been playing for about 17 yrs before I got my Strat. For about the first six months I found it quite a tiring guitar. Unlike my other guitars I don't like the way it feels resting on my left leg. This really challenged me at first. You kinda have to dig in when you play a Strat, yet they're so comfortable high up on the neck. That double cutaway is still a pretty cool thing I'm wrapping my head around. It's normal to get frustrated, no matter how good your gear is when your not getting the sounds you want. It's a tired cliché, but if your not having fun your not _playing_ guitar.

Shawn.


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

bagpipe said:


> Yeah, those Sabbath recordings are really crappy. sigiifa


I never said any sabbath recordings were crappy.

Don't put words in my mouth.


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

Archer said:


> Dean DeLeo of STP used nothing but single coil pickups on the 'Vatican Giftshop' album......though I wouldnt call STP a metal band.


which is also one of their worst albums lol.


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

TDeneka said:


> which is also one of their worst albums lol.



Thats the drugs talking, not the guitar tones.


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

george lynch

john 5

jeff beck (ok, this is a stretch, but his lead playing did influence metal guys a lot)

richie blackmore

john frusciante (another stretch, but mother's milk was pretty metal)

frank black from teh pixies is a tele guy

this is the worst thread hijack in history. i'm going to create a thread and maybe even a poll, so there...


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## Cort Strummer (Feb 16, 2009)

suttree said:


> george lynch
> 
> john 5
> 
> ...


I am not sure what these are for but John 5 and George Lynch both use humbuckers; John uses DiMarzio D activators and George Lynch uses a single Humbucker I am pretty sure he uses Seymour Duncans...


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## Evilmusician (Apr 13, 2007)

Dude go easy on yourself ,practice turn down the Distortion don't use alot effects ,and play were all not Virtuosos ,but we all love to play guitar! You'll get better If you practice!


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## Kestral (Apr 19, 2007)

From the looks/sounds of it, I get the sense you're looking for a more sustaining, saturated sound.

If that's the case, then I see what you're trying to do (correct me if I'm wrong)...

When you go to the higher frets, you're looking for that high gain sustain. In fact I think you're looking for more sustain throughout, hence the reason why you've cranked the distortion, in an attempt to get more sustain and saturation.

My suggestion is to try a compressor pedal.

I like to play a lot of the early U2 stuff, and I play it with pretty decent gear (ie. Made in USA Fender Telecaster reissue, Boss SD-1, Korg SDD-3000 delay, Vox AC15tbx amp) and it sounded pretty good but it was missing a certain smoothness and sustain. Added an old script logo MXR Dynacomp and that was exactly what was needed.


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## noobcake (Mar 8, 2006)

gerald guerrero said:


> No offence, but i think your guitar, your tone and you BOTH suck.
> Pay your dues and quit the eff whining. Hell, I been playing for 35 years. You think you can become a guitar wizard overnight? Thats also a cheap guitar you have there, which is okay, I aint knocking it, but it is waht it is.
> In the end when youve studied guitar and played it quite alot ( and no, doesnt have to be 35 years)& found a proffesional grade instrument set up by a skilled luthier to play you will not suck. trust me.
> Go get a set up on thhat guitar, ask alot of questions about pickups and amps and play the hell out of it. Youll become more accomplished at an alarming rate.


Wow, your communication skills are beyond bad. You seem to be trying to offer advice, which is fine, but your post is riddled with insults. A little counter-productive no? This isn't harmony central and you might want to put a little more thought into what you are saying before you click on the "post" button.


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