# NAD: But, How Bad IS This? Keep Or Return?



## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

I bought this '65-'68 YBA-1A from a Reverb seller. This is part of his description: "Cooling fan runs well and has kept tubes, OT and guts in great shape. No mods have been done to the circuitry."

I gave around $800 USD for the amp. What would a reasonable person do with this in my position? I have an amp tech but he hasn't seen it yet. I'm thinking it's going to take a lot of money to get it right. Notice the burnt resistor and the cut, bare exposed wire coming from the transformer. See all the shoddy work? Multiple piled on resistors instead of the correct one.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

When you're buying old stuff, there's a certain amount of risk you just need to swallow. Put the regrets in the rearview mirror, get it put right the way you want it, and turn it up. Just remember, there's a reason you bought it.


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## Simon Peterson (Aug 20, 2019)

I just did a trade for a yba-1a at a similar value. Having to do some upkeep is to be expected


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

Well the good news is: they are easy to work on, and it probably won't need much to get it back to stock. And they do sound great!

I bet it needs new filter caps though? Those look original


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

It won’t be too much to get it working right. Take it to a tech, get an estimate. See if the seller will meet you in the middle of the repair bill, or just live with it.


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## Robhotdad (Oct 27, 2016)

It's needs a few hours of work. The caps can be checked and replaced if necessary. I would guess they probably are due. Those blue ones come from the 80's. Grid resistors would be next on the check list. The sockets can be cleaned and snugged up. Some new tubes might be called for. I have a solution for expensive new tubes, but that would call for some minor modifications, otherwise you're going to get soaked in that department. Expect $200 to $400 CDN if your guy is generous. For $800 USD you could have bought yourself a kit and have it built. That thing is a Traynor. We used to throw those in the snowbank


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

No mods have been done to the circuitry? All I see are mods on the circuitry and really shoddy workmanship at that. The thing that irks me the most is not being honest and forthcoming about the condition. I just don't do business that way. I need to think about this...

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Work done by an amateur or by a pseudo tech. Observed very often


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## Robhotdad (Oct 27, 2016)

Latole said:


> Work done by an amateur or by a pseudo tech. Observed very often


Interesting observation. How do you qualify that?


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Very poor job.


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Amp may sound good and built on specs. What I see is a bad looking job.


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

I own several vintage amps. Early '73 Marshall JMP Lead, '60 Ampeg R-12, '65 Fender Princeton Reverb, '73 Fender Champ, '53 Fender Champ, '69 Fender Bassman, '79 Fender Bassman and I recently traded a '62 Fender Pro and none of them were in such bad condition inside.


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

I thought about it and this is going back. Take the price of the amp and the money nit's going to cost to get it made safe and right and I'm well on my way to the price of a Soldano SLO 30.


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Torren61 said:


> I own several vintage amps. Early '73 Marshall JMP Lead, '60 Ampeg R-12, '65 Fender Princeton Reverb, '73 Fender Champ, '53 Fender Champ, '69 Fender Bassman, '79 Fender Bassman and I recently traded a '62 Fender Pro and none of them were in such bad condition inside.



Because ;
1-they see a good amp tech 
or 
2-they never see a amp tech


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Robhotdad said:


> That thing is a Traynor. We used to throw those in the snowbank


And they probably still worked after.


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

Robhotdad said:


> That thing is a Traynor. We used to throw those in the snowbank





2manyGuitars said:


> And they probably still worked after.


And then the prices went up. And the people who originally threw them in the snowbank are now paying a killing to get them back.


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

Did he say it was original or just in good working order? Is it? If it's working then I'd say keep it and do the work and take away a lesson - ask for chassis pics if that matters to you.


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

He posted "OT and guts in great shape. No mods have been done to the circuitry." Is that accurate?


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## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

Torren61 said:


> He posted "OT and guts in great shape. No mods have been done to the circuitry." Is that accurate?


mid the replacement parts are to original spec then I would say, technically, yes. But you could make the opposite argument too.


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## elburnando (11 mo ago)

I would contact Reverb, let them know the situation right away, and that you will contact the seller. That way they can't say the "inspection period" is over after a few days. Tell the seller what up, and show him the estimate, and see what he's willing to cover, or tell him you'll send it back. That's a major PITA, and he did lie to you, so he should refund at least half the bill for repair.


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

I contacted the seller, as per Reverb's rules, so I'm covered there. The seller contacted me and said he was traveling at the moment and he'd get back with me as soon as he returns home.


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## elburnando (11 mo ago)

Torren61 said:


> I contacted the seller, as per Reverb's rules, so I'm covered there. The seller contacted me and said he was traveling at the moment and he'd get back with me as soon as he returns home.


That's convenient


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

I'm covered but at this point I'm trying to decide to return the amp for as much as I can get back (I don't want to have to pay for return shipping) or keep the amp and negotiate a partial refund. Would anyone care to venture an estimate on sympathetic restoration?


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

This is it right? 1960's Traynor YBA-1A Bass Master MK II Tube Amplifier / 90-watt | Reverb
Lots of photos, but for an amp that's almost 60 years old I would have expected gut shots as a buyer. Also, what type of electrical cable is being protected with the yellow plastic caps? That looks like dodgy work to me.


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

That's the one. The wires go to the fan. I was prepared to deal with that. I didn't need gut shots if "No mods were done to the circuitry." as advertised.

The fan was wired to the ground switch for off/on. It needs to be connected in a way so that it can be easily disconnected when you need to pull the chassis.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Why would it need a fan if it was original specs?


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

Dunno, didn't they come with a fan for the 90 watters?


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

The fan is on the schematic and is advisable when pushing EL34s to 90WRMS.


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## Dru Edwards (9 mo ago)

Torren61 said:


> I contacted the seller, as per Reverb's rules, so I'm covered there. The seller contacted me and said he was traveling at the moment and he'd get back with me as soon as he returns home.


I'd return it too. Just make sure all your communications with the seller is through Reverb so that you have a history in case you need to escalate.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Torren61 said:


> I bought this '65-'68 YBA-1A from a Reverb seller. This is part of his description: "Cooling fan runs well and has kept tubes, OT and guts in great shape. No mods have been done to the circuitry."
> 
> I gave around $800 USD for the amp. What would a reasonable person do with this in my position? I have an amp tech but he hasn't seen it yet. I'm thinking it's going to take a lot of money to get it right. Notice the burnt resistor and the cut, bare exposed wire coming from the transformer. See all the shoddy work? Multiple piled on resistors instead of the correct one.


First red flag.....There's no such thing as a '65 to '68 YBA-1A. The 1A was introduced in '69 onwards.


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

__





Velvet Black - Dating






www.0rigami.com








Three digit serial on a Bass Master might indicate that the amp is from 1965 or 1966, before the four-digit serial numbers were used.
The circuit in [that amps] is built on a phenolic turret board instead of the Fender style fibre board used [later.]
[...] it appears that Traynor/Yorkville used three digit serial numbers up until 1968. [An example is an] YBA-1A Bass Master Mark II [...] with the serial number M 601 [...] [whose] potentiometers date from 1968 [...] [and on which] 'Range Expander' is screened below the controls, not above.

(Eric Knudsen, Rob Mercure, Scott)​


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Torren61 said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Probably some crossover between '68 and '69. '68 pots could be a '69 assembled amp. Not saying there is not the possibility of an early example from late '68 but they were generally known to have been officially a '69 model......definitely not '65, '66 or '67.
What's the serial number on this one?


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

nonreverb said:


> Probably some crossover between '68 and '69. '68 pots could be a '69 assembled amp. Not saying there is not the possibility of an early example from late '68 but they were generally known to have been officially a '69 model......definitely not '65, '66 or '67.
> What's the serial number on this one?


M 546


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

nonreverb said:


> Probably some crossover between '68 and '69. '68 pots could be a '69 assembled amp. Not saying there is not the possibility of an early example from late '68 but they were generally known to have been officially a '69 model......definitely not '65, '66 or '67.
> What's the serial number on this one?


M546. I definitely don't know NEARLY as much as you folks. That's why I'm here.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Torren61 said:


> M546. I definitely don't know NEARLY as much as you folks. That's why I'm here.


Can you see the date codes on the pots? Also from what I see in the pictures, this does not have a lift-off lid. That would make it early. Also, what logo style is on the grill? Can you send a pic?


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Velvet Black is full of inaccuracies. Many of the pages/claims are just things "some guy" said elsewhere on the internet. There is some decent info here and there, but it is hardly authoritative. 

Traynor’s site used to have an amazing article on the history of Traynor amps but I don’t think it is there anymore.


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

traynor_garnet said:


> Traynor’s site used to have an amazing article on the history of Traynor amps but I don’t think it is there anymore.


If a link is found, one can try to use waybackmachine. I read tons of stuff about older gear through that.


Internet Archive: Wayback Machine


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

I took it to my tech to get an estimate of the labor costs and that's where it's at right now. The logo is missing. The top does not lift off. 

I gave the seller an option. Refund me $250 or have your carrier of choice come get the amp. It arrived in a condition not as advertised. I didn't want one that was a train wreck inside and he advertised it as "No mods have been done to the circuitry." He was trying to play games. He figures all the crappy work still means the circuit design is still the same and he's wrong which means he's responsible for returning my money and return shipping costs. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

I don't really want the amp at this point. I JUST bought a Soldano SLO 30. But, I'll keep it if he refunds me $250. I hope he learns his lesson.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Torren61 said:


> I took it to my tech to get an estimate of the labor costs and that's where it's at right now. The logo is missing. The top does not lift off.
> 
> I gave the seller an option. Refund me $250 or have your carrier of choice come get the amp. It arrived in a condition not as advertised. I didn't want one that was a train wreck inside and he advertised it as "No mods have been done to the circuitry." He was trying to play games. He figures all the crappy work still means the circuit design is still the same and he's wrong which means he's responsible for returning my money and return shipping costs. You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.
> 
> I don't really want the amp at this point. I JUST bought a Soldano SLO 30. But, I'll keep it if he refunds me $250. I hope he learns his lesson.


There really aren't many mods done to this amp. Yes, the bias resistors have been replaced but that's normal for an amp with no adjustment. Whoever did the work used an ancient resistor as part of the replacement (which is not burnt by the way). There is a couple of filter caps replaced which is typical. The blue cathode and bias filter electrolytic caps are indeed original to this amp and the cut wire was always there. It's a tap for a different output impedance. Many Traynors had the tap to allow to change from 4 to 8 ohm or vice versa. Someone may have cut off the tape covering it although I've seen Traynors like this before.


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

Could you point out exactly what mods have been done? I see multiple resistors stacked, components clipped out and others soldered to the clipped ends. I would never represent that amp as "no mods have been done". By him saying that, he's intentionally obfuscating while trying to cover his butt. That equates to dishonesty in my book.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Repairs are not necessarily mods. I find that the best way to verify mods is to examine it component by component to a known accurate schematic...the factory drawings if possible.


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

Did those "repairs" come with the amp? No. They are modifications. Anything that is not original to the circuit is a modification. If those stacked resistors don't add up to the value of the original resistor by a single Ohm, it's a mod.


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

Torren61 said:


> Did those "repairs" come with the amp? No. They are modifications. Anything that is not original to the circuit is a modification. If those stacked resistors don't add up to the value of the original resistor by a single Ohm, it's a mod.


I agree that you should be refunded due to the shoddy work inside the amp. But I disagree with the quoted statement. The amp you bought was advertised as being from the late 60s. It's more than 50 years old. It's naive to think that repairs have not been made, which would involve changing components.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Torren61 said:


> Did those "repairs" come with the amp? No. They are modifications. Anything that is not original to the circuit is a modification. If those stacked resistors don't add up to the value of the original resistor by a single Ohm, it's a mod.


I get why you are not happy, but some of your "modded" claims are grasping at straws. If somebody changes the tires on a car, has the car been 'modded'? Basic maintenance is a repair rather than a modification. That said, if the ad reads "all original parts" then I can see why you are mad, but if "all original" is so important you really should have asked for a gut shot before buying it. Even if the changed grill cloth (is this change a 'mod'?) and missing logo didn't bother you, these changes should have been a sign/warning that maybe other changes were lurking inside.

In short, I see your point and I am not even really arguing against you, but I do think you are overstating your case. You started this thread asking for opinions about what to do, but ever since you bought another amp you are arguing against anyone who doesn't fully support the basis for your refund request. I can see why the seller is not loving this, but I can see why you are not loving this; I just think you will get more sympathy and understanding here if you don't try to oversell your position. 

TG


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Torren61 said:


> Could you point out exactly what mods have been done? I see multiple resistors stacked, components clipped out and others soldered to the clipped ends. I would never represent that amp as "no mods have been done". By him saying that, he's intentionally obfuscating while trying to cover his butt. That equates to dishonesty in my book.


Personally, I don't see much there that turns me off with respect to alterations. Yes, the tech who did the work kinda cheaped out with some old components and made a bit of a nest trying to get the bias sorted for whatever tubes were installed. (I'd have added a bias adjust pot myself). Otherwise, it looks pretty much stock. That said, at some point, the PS and bias caps would have to be replaced in this as well and considering the price you paid, that should have been addressed already.
Remember this: The tubes that are available today for that YBA-1A will be run close to their design limits. The margins for the old OEM Mullards that this originally came with, were much better. That is why the bias was modded.

FYI, old Fender amps are pretty much required to have replaced filter caps. One could state that's a mod however, it does not lower the value of them as buyers now realise that it's a necessary upgrade....the amp in question and other vintage amps are no exception.


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

I have a '53 Champ, '60 Ampeg R-12, '65 Princeton Reverb, modded '68 YBA-1,'69 Bassman, '73 JMP Lead, '73 Champ, '75 Music Man Sixty-Five, '79 Bassman 70, '91 Crate Vintage 20, '93 Crate Vintage 50, de Lisle 15P, Swart AST Master, Emery Superbaby, Monkeymatic Lassen, Bogen PA, Fisher 680-A, (incoming) Soldano SLO-30, Fryette Power Station and possibly a late 60s Traynor YBA-1A.

The one that needed the most work to get it back to a faithful sympathetic restoration was the Marshall. This Traynor is pretty bad and I do feel like the seller intentionally obfuscated the condition of the electronics in a way that, to me, is dishonest. That's my position. I hate people who try to cheat others. I don't do things like that. I'm still going to argue that with Reverb and I'll either get a full refund or a partial refund or nothing and I'll have an amp that needs a lot more work to get it back to stock than I expected. 

I was hoping for an early Traynor that was unmolested and simply needed servicing, as all vintage tube amps do. I already ordered the correct restoration grill cloth before the amp arrived and I was looking for correct knobs and nameplate. I like preserving these wonderful pieces of art for others to enjoy after me.

I appreciate all the input. Thanks!


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

This reply speaks well of your character. I hope you end up happy whatever that outcome is.

Have a good weekend,
TG



Torren61 said:


> I have a '53 Champ, '60 Ampeg R-12, '65 Princeton Reverb, modded '68 YBA-1,'69 Bassman, '73 JMP Lead, '73 Champ, '75 Music Man Sixty-Five, '79 Bassman 70, '91 Crate Vintage 20, '93 Crate Vintage 50, de Lisle 15P, Swart AST Master, Emery Superbaby, Monkeymatic Lassen, Bogen PA, Fisher 680-A, (incoming) Soldano SLO-30, Fryette Power Station and possibly a late 60s Traynor YBA-1A.
> 
> The one that needed the most work to get it back to a faithful sympathetic restoration was the Marshall. This Traynor is pretty bad and I do feel like the seller intentionally obfuscated the condition of the electronics in a way that, to me, is dishonest. That's my position. I hate people who try to cheat others. I don't do things like that. I'm still going to argue that with Reverb and I'll either get a full refund or a partial refund or nothing and I'll have an amp that needs a lot more work to get it back to stock than I expected.
> 
> ...


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

The seller refunded $269


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## Mikev7305 (Jan 6, 2020)

Torren61 said:


> The seller refunded $269


Sounds very reasonable. Now get that thing rockin!


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## Torren61 (7 mo ago)

I thought the same thing.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Sounds like a deal now. 30% reduction should keep you well under to put it back to nominal and voila, unmolested traynor away.

Glad you got it sorted in the end.


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