# Simon and Patrick guitars?



## brucew

Awhile ago I posted a Q about gibsons and slowly narrowing down the market. I just don't think I can justify to myself spending 4 grand on a guitar, unless it was to me, "the" guitar.

Been doing more searching, came across these:
Godin Guitars - Showcase Folk Rosewood A6T w/ TRIC Case

Godin Guitars - Artist Mosaic CW Folk Acoustic/Electric Guitar w/ Deluxe TRIC Case

Simple fact is I can have any two of the above for half the cost of the gibson. Going to try to play them this winter (will involve some driving to find them). 

At some point will be in the S. States, will try to track down the blues king or kebmo model there to compare.

I know quite a few on here have S&P guitars; sort of same as seagull? Am I price comparing apples and grapefruit? thanks.

Edited the links from mfgr's sited to l&m thanks Dorian2 Other link was just a similar s&p with cutaway


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## Dorian2

Links don't seem to work. But a friend bought a S&P 2 years ago (Woodland Spruce series) and the neck is quite a bit smaller feeling than my Seagull S6. It was closer to the feel of my Art & Lutherie. But it was definitely like comparing Apples and Oranges because the 2 I'm comparing it to are Cedar tops, not Spruce. All of these are Wild Cherry laminate back and sides with a solid top. I haven't checked out any of the Showcase series offerings so my info should be taken for what it is....hopefully not toooooo useless.


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## Everton FC

I have an S7P Songsmith Concert Hall. Nice guitar, for all styles. But the wild cherry back and sides is much different than mahogany and rosewood. Also, I prefer the cedar top w/the wild cherry back and sides, but my Concert Hall is a nice guitar. Flatter neck than my Yamaha FG-331 - I wish the neck was more "V-Shaped". Overall, worth the money. Ultimately, buy used. Penultimately, give the cedar-top a strum; I think this is their best combo.


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## High/Deaf

Moreso than with electrics, I think the money you invest in an acoustic is going to be returned to you in its tone. It is certainly diminishing returns (a 4k guitar isn't 4X better than a 1k guitar) but there is no real tone upgrades once you've bought the guitar. The woods it's made out of (and the luthier and body style) is what will define its tone. 

Personally, I'd rather have one really good $4k guitar than 4 decent $1k guitars. But YMMV. Play what you love and love what you play!


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## bw66

I have an S&P Showcase Dread. It's been a great guitar and I would take it over many guitars that cost twice as much.

If you're looking at a model with B-band electronics, you should know that B-band has ceased operations and replacement parts are not readily available. They sound fine, but if something fails, you will probably need to get a whole new pick-up system.


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## Mooh

I've had a few S&P guitars over the years, some just to augment whatever else I allow to be used and abused around the lesson studio, and a couple as my own tools. At the moment all I have is an all mahogany (top, back, sides) Woodland Pro Folk, equipped with a Fishman Rare Earth humbucking soundhole pickup. It's an excellent all round guitar, strums smoothly, neither boomy or strident, fingerpicks comfortably, and looks pretty good too.

Lots of my current and past students use S&P guitars, there's a local dealer, and I find them uniformly good sounding and playing, reliable guitars, generally meeting the threshold of quality and tone that satisfies most people. That said, tone is in the ears of the beholder. To give the more expensive competition a run for their money, compare solid with solid, wood for wood.









S&P Woodland Pro Series

It's the one in the middle of the picture (with a Norman I lend out, and a nice all mahogany Seagull dread).


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## mawmow

Duel cedar/mahogany against spruce/rosewood ? Should deliver very different tones... and overtones if you strum them hard.

My still brand new Seagull Performer delivers nicely but does not stand the comparison with either my Gibson L-1 1928 Blues Tribute nor L-00TV (full blown). I hope the Seagull will open up nicely quite soon. The Seagull also feels bolder in my hands with round C neck.

Keb Mo is in the same $ range as L-1 or regular L-00, but with a larger nut width. Blues King, if you can find one, appears an interesting sound and $ choice.

Just got a plain Taylor 322 (mahogany/blackwood) in the price range you consider and it appears to stand between my Seagull and my Gibsons. The 322e or 322ce 12frets could be interesting too.

Now, let me return to my meeting :
- They call me maw and I am used to compulsively buy nice sounding acoustics...
- Welcome maw !


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## mawmow

*** I am sure I replied a stuffy answer to this post last night but it disappered !
At opening, the alerts flashed out I had two alerts... that immediately disappeared !
The site clearly has a problem. I commit my answer again...

I do not know the guitars you mention, but I noticed one has cedar top with mahogany back and sides while the other is made of spruce over rosewood : two very different beasts you will have to hear because they should deliver very different tones... and overtones if you strum them hard.

Now, I will try to help on the basis of the guitar I tried or still own. Take note I need 1 3/4" nut width to be comfortable (Gibson's 1,725 " is my lower limit).

The Seagull Performer I got this summer for under 1k$ still smells lacquer finish and I hope it will open up well, but it does not get up to my one year old Gibson L-1 1928 Blues Tribute or full blown L-00TV (I had the chance to get great deals on them), but for less than 30% price of these, the bolder C necked Seagull is a great "I take it out to the course" guitar.

The Blues King, if you could fetch one, appears a great guitar (I could not touch one...).
The Keb Mo is as pricey as my L-1/L-00 and have the largest nut width: I tried one, liked it but was not ready to pay its full price...

Now, just got a Taylor 322 : all solid, mahogany top and australian blackwood back and sides (Blackwood makes back on australian Matons). It is around the price range of the guitars you mentioned, unless you add a cutaway and/or the Taylor's Expression system II.

Finally, why not Eastman AC122ce under 1k$ : great for the lowest price, and you can get 222 in the price range you seem to consider.

I also have an interesting parlor Alvarez AP66, all mahogany at very low price. The OM models seem interesting, but I do not know them.

I hope I could help.


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## Dorian2

Great write up there @mawmow . The Seagulls (meant S&P but same diff.) take a bit to open up. My buddy bought one last year and he rarely plays it. So anytime I get my grubby paws on it I pound the snot out of it. Last time it was over for a couple of weeks I used it as a drum while watching some Netflix program. Sounded quite a bit richer when she left. I always use a shoe as a reference for some people who aren't into guitar. You gotta break em in.

I know you know all that already, but I got on a roll.


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## sillyak

I like my S&P Showcase. Great value, made in Canada, looks great, sounds great. I hadn't really listened to many maple guitars before I bought this one, I like it.

Although if you're looking at 4 k guitars I would be inclined to get one 4 k guitar as opposed to several cheaper ones.


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## bw66

sillyak said:


> I like my S&P Showcase. Great value, made in Canada, looks great, sounds great. I hadn't really listened to many maple guitars before I bought this one, I like it.
> 
> Although if you're looking at 4 k guitars I would be inclined to get one 4 k guitar as opposed to several cheaper ones.


I've had that identical guitar for about 10 years now - the top is now darker and missing some finish around the lower edge of the soundhole - I'd forgotten how pretty it was when I bought it. Mine came with a different model of pre-amp and now has a L.R, Baggs system in it. It's been a great guitar.


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## brucew

I would again like to thank everyone for their input, was recently in the city for a few days (vehicle shopping, ugh). Took time to check out some guitars, played a Bunch. Surprisingly I wasn't overly fond of the neck's feel on the seagull and S&P (wasn't uncomfortable, and certain in no time would feel right, but in my 5 minute test they weren't my favorite(likely due to what I'm used to playing, not the guitars)) Especially since I'm fine with my godin 5th ave.

I must admit, I never tried the gibson as, very simply I don't think I could bring myself to spend the price, and, let's face it, what if I tried it and.......liked it, Really liked it? Then I'd buy it and feel guilty, have to send wife to hawaii or something, leaving no money for possible future guitars. 

So anyway, last music store we stopped at explained I'm looking for a nice sounding 14 fret smaller guitar as mine are mostly dreadnaught shape and with fingerpicking I'm finding it would be nicer to wrap my arm "more around" than over the top as to approach the strings at a lower angle.

Gentleman hands me a Yamaha FS800, $300.00 guitar. I play it, play it some more, grab some fingerpicks, play it more, and brought it home. Narrow nut width but don't seem to have any problem with fingers or fingerpicks(possibly due to the lower approach angle??); 12 fret but I can live with that. Who'da thunk it? Was thinking upgrade to solid wood mostly because my solid tanglewood 12 string sounds so beautiful; does this match that, no, but it sounds good and is pocket change to something that likely can.

My personal review: Feels nice, fits nice, plays nice, sounds nice. Much louder than my mahog. top ovation and all mahog.(laminate) tanglewood, as well as the wild cherry godin(accoustic)(keep in mind it's spruce top). Not tinny sounding at all(personally when I hear a description of, "bright sounding" I think tinny, little base and no midrange to qualify the description). Haven't strummed it with a flatpick, only fingers and fingerpicks.

Have about 12-15 hrs on it now, it's doing what I was wanting the guitar to do.


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## Budda

Congrats!

I tried a martin hd28, without knowing thats what I had pulled down. Talk about "oops"!


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## greco

brucew said:


> Gentleman hands me a Yamaha FS800 and brought it home.


Congratulations. The 800 series Yamaha guitars are excellent!

ENJOY!!

I have an older Yamaha LS6M A.R.E. which is similar to yours:

*LS6M ARE*
The L6M features hand-selected premium solid Engelmann Spruce top and Mahogany back and sides. This newly added variation gives powerful low -mid and more open sound.

Medium Jumbo Type Body
Solid Engelmann Spruce Top with A.R.E.
Mahogany Back & Side
High Comfort Traditional Neck Profile
5ply Neck
Passive System + SRT Piezo Pickup


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## Dorian2

Congrats. I was playing my buddies sons FS800 series the other night. He bought one lst year and took it back because of a neck issue (knot). Brought the same make and model home, but he grabbed the wrong one off the shelf that he had wanted lol. Ended up being the nicest one I've seen, heard and played from the FS800 series. Luck of the draw for sure because it's exceptional in every way.


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## SWLABR

Congrats!!! Love Yamaha'a. 

I posted something a while ago about my niece looking to upgrade, and asked the Community here for a little help. Tons of advise from everyone. 

She finally narrowed it down and bought a Yamaha (can't remember the model off hand) but it was a funny experience cause they live near Pittsburgh, so she and her dad Face-Timed me while they were in the store. I asked the dude all the pertinent questions while she was holding the phone to the guitar as I asked specific questions about each spec. He thought it was funny. At the end, I heard him say to the dad, "Well, you certainly brought the right help". It's been a few months, and she absolutely loves that guitar!


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## jdto

Congrats. Yamaha makes some nice guitars. I played a S&P Showcase Mahogany last week and it sounded pretty darn good. I'm going to go back and try it again to see how it sounds on another day.


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