# Traynor TS-15 (love it!) vs. rest of TS-series?



## JayK (Feb 18, 2020)

My first post here! Sorry it's long... A year or two ago I got a pair of TS-15's pretty cheap. I thought they were neat but didn't have high expectations on the tone. When I got them home and plugged in I actually really dug the sound. They also sound slightly different from each other, which makes for a great stereo setup. It took some time to figure out the quirky/sensitive eq, but once dialed in, you're rewarded with a sweet raunchy grind that feels better to play than a lot of tube amps (especially at low volumes)! The only thing that reminds you its a cheap SS amp is the subtle "fizz out" of distortion as signal fades on a chord left to ring out/decay.

A couple months ago I bought a 15" Celestion Fullback for my YBA-1, but lately I've been playing one of my TS-15's into the Fullback - and it has blowing me away how good they sound together! I've been using the 1x15 as an extension to the internal 2x8's, or just the 15" on its own (hardly play just the 2x8's on their own now). I actually am leaning towards making the Fullback its own cab to use with the TS-15, and go back to my previous speaker with the YBA setup.


Now this has me wondering, does the whole TS series sound basically the same as the TS-15 - but just more power/features/bigger speaker? Or is the TS-15 a special beast due to being the only non-master volume amp in the series (only non-master SS amp I can think of in general?). I.e. - would the TS-15 on its lowest power setting sound the same as say a TS-20/25/50 etc with the master turned down to the same perceived volume? I know a hard working power section isn't supposed to be part of the SS amp sound, but maybe it somehow is with these odd little amps? I'm tempted to look for a TS-25B combo or TS-50B head+cab and throw my 15" Fullback in it for guitar, but would need it to have the same mean grind character the TS-15 has at low volumes...

Anyone own a TS-15 and any other TS series amps (with "normal" master volumes) that can weigh in?

I want to try for myself sometime, but figured I'd ask until that chance comes!

Cheers


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## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

There's a Facebooks group for Traynor fans, and by all accounts, the entire TS line up delivers. I'd love to try one.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

First off, welcome to the forum. This is a great place full of knowledge people but you do need a bit of a thick skin sometimes. Glad you're enjoying your TS amps but not a lot of love for them out there. I bought a brand new TS-50 when they first came out in the early 80's. Okay clean tones but the distortion channel in my opinion was pretty bad. Maybe the TS-15 has different circuitry, I don't know but there is a reason you see TS-25's and 50's going for $50-$75 on the used market.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I have a ts60b that I love for both bass and guitar. I don't like moving it however. It's been in storage for a bit. I had a 120 as well that was ridiculous. I gave it to my buddy with a studio and he converted it into a monster head.

The tone of these won't be for everyone, but if you play heavy, ratty music they are cool as hell. I'd imagine the cleans are killer, but that's not what I have used them for hah.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Welcome to the forum. 

I play mostly clean with a bit of reverb. (très boring...I know...LOL).

I'd like to try an old solid state (SS) Traynor and an old SS Peavey someday. 
The old SS Fenders can be great.


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## Rabbit (Oct 9, 2007)

I was in the local music shop a few years ago. Saw this TS-15 amp sitting there for fifty bucks and thought -what the hell if it sounds like s*** I'll just bring it back ! I have a house full of vintage tube amps but thought it might be good to give to my nephew who was learning guitar. However when I got it home I was blown away by its sounds..the cleans are crisp and toneful. Loud enough for a small to medium size gig and I love the sound of the two eight inch speakers..very tight and focused. Of course transistor amps dont break up nicely as a tube amp but I use it with a blues driver,compressor and reverb and no one complains! By the way the three way switch is in fact a master volume just fixed at three levels and it works quite well. I would like to try some of the other TS amps and keep my eye on kijiji but they were all designed by the same guy ( not Pete Traynor ) so I would suspect there is a lot of commonality. There are a lot guitarist out there who listen with their eyes and not their ears and probably miss out on all sorts of good things for cheap! Anyways enjoy and this is a very good forum!


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## JayK (Feb 18, 2020)

Yes there seems to be lots of both love and hate for the TS series. The TS-15 is pretty unique as the 3-way switch they labelled as "master" actually works a set of big resistors right on the speaker output like a built-in attenuator switch (vs a normal master vol between the preamp and power amp). Built-in attenuation switches are starting to become more common on tube amps for home/studio use, but I don't 100% know what the point is on an SS amp... Unless, like I mentioned in first post, that the TS-15 actually does get some of its character from working the power section...


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

I have a bud who is super into the TS series (owns a good many of them) and have had a few come through needing repair.

First of all, the entire line features the same power section topology - darlington power transistors in push-pull pairs. Smaller ones using TIP series chips mounted inside the chassis and larger ones using the metal can (TO-3 format) ones you see on the back of other large/early 70s ss amps (E.G Traynor Monoblock or Peavey MKiii). Nothing fancy, but solid and reliable (though in my limited experience, it would be a good idea to check that the thermal paste under those TIP chips hasn't dried out and crumbled away - that's what happened to my friend's TS-25 - 1 chip of the pair overheated and I replaced both; you can still get them and they're cheap but it's easier to add thermal paste(same stuff they use for mounting heat sinks to CPUs in computer builds - get some at yer local Canada computers for a coupla bux - the smallest tube they have will be more than enough). The larger TO-3 style ones are air cooled out the back so not an issue for those.

The preamp design was pretty interesting:



> "The “Tri-Comp Network”, this circuit promised to get around the problem of nasty-sounding distortion produced by square-edged solid-state wave forms ... . This was accomplished by the circuit splitting the input signal into three segments then adding compression to each band and finally mixing the segments back into one signal.


That's from the Yorkville lit.

The main difference between models are the power section - scaled up or down for different output power levels, and the bells and whistles added to the preamp section (boost, reverb, more robust EQ sections, and even graphic EQ etc) - the TS-10 would be short on these (vol, tone, master), while the TS-140 head has so many knobs they had to put half of them on the back due to lack of space. I beleive the biggest amp in the series was the TS-200, but it was housed in a Hiwatt like headshell and didn't even have reverb. Naturally speakers are the final and obvious difference as well as head/combo.

Cool series if you're into it (not for everyone as mentioned); make great pedal platforms. The cleans are great and the OD is surprisingly usable, though not something I would want to be stuck with exclusively - but that's exactly what pedals are for.

OP: from what I recall the TS-15 does have a master volume, but it's not a continuously variable knob so much as a 3 position switch, so that's still unique to the series. The sound would be very similar to other TS models (assuming no reverb engaged etc), but it would not be all that accurate to think about it as a, for example TS-20, with the master rolled off. You can still overdrive transistors, so you need the same preamp level being sent to the power section to get them to sound the same (tonewise, one will be louder obviously).


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## JayK (Feb 18, 2020)

Yes I guess the 3-way switch can still be called a "master volume" since it is the final volume control, but it is after the power section instead of before like a traditional "master volume" (or master vol on rest of the TS series).



Granny Gremlin said:


> but it would not be all that accurate to think about it as a, for example TS-20, with the master rolled off. You can still overdrive transistors, so you need the same preamp level being sent to the power section to get them to sound the same


So then the TS-15 is still somewhat like a non-MV amp vs. say the TS-20, as if both have the preamp volume on 7, but TS-20 has its master turned down, the TS-15 will have more signal hitting the power section. I just wasn't sure if the TS series' power section was capable of being overdriven by the preamp, or designed to be clean amplification of the preamp signal at all times...


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## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

I had a TS-10. It looked like a small head, but there was a tiny 5” or so cheap speaker, permanently wired up inside. It was one of my favourite little solid state amps for several reasons. I got it fo $5 at a yard sale, and it looked like it had been to every party and beer joint in Canada. I cleaned up all the disgust and DNA from the little amp. I would have to clean the pots constantly, and knew they just needed replacing. They were on flying leads, and it would have been an easy job. I had about 25 little practice amps in my collection. So I’m not kidding when I say this one was fun to play through. I always wanted to add a speaker jack and wire up the existing speaker to plug in. The cabinet was built tough, up to the famous traditional Traynor standards.

I had a situation in life where I had to divest for lack of space. I sold all of those amps. That Traynor disappeared on Kijiji in about 10 minutes, picked up at my door.

I still have a TS-50 sitting idle in my garage, that is sometimes used as my outdoor, leave it in the patio amp, in the summer. Or it gets used to break in a speaker. That was a $5 or $10 amp from a garage sale. I had to fix the overdrive boost switch. About $2 from Princess Auto. It’s OK for what it is. The speaker had been changed out to a broken in, to near broken, old worn Yamaha. A better speaker might be required, but does it really matter?


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Total coincidence, but I found this and watched it last night.


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## JayK (Feb 18, 2020)

Johan Segeborn is awesome! I want a t-shirt with him and a bunch of Marshall stacks with the words "Hi, today we gonna check out..."


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## mechanic (Apr 1, 2010)

The Traynor tube amps are the best amps I've ever played thru.
I haven't tried any of their solid state stuff.
Thanks for the heads up I will check them out.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## JayK (Feb 18, 2020)

In "popular opinion", the tube Traynors will blow the TS series away as far as what most people will want/expect from a vintage amp.
The TS series has its own thing going on that you will either appreciate for what it is, or you won't lol.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

JayK said:


> In "popular opinion", the tube Traynors will blow the TS series away as far as what most people will want/expect from a vintage amp.
> The TS series has its own thing going on that you will either appreciate for what it is, or you won't lol.


I like an amp I can just throw down the stairs instead of carrying.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

torndownunit said:


> I like an amp I can just throw down the stairs instead of carrying.


Thanks for my laugh for the day!

If you could learn levitation, you'd be golden.

(If you could SELL levitation, you'd be multiple platinum.)


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## JayK (Feb 18, 2020)

torndownunit said:


> I like an amp I can just throw down the stairs instead of carrying.


You can throw a TS-15 back up the stairs too . The bigger ones maybe not....


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

JayK said:


> You can throw a TS-15 back up the stairs too . The bigger ones maybe not....


We have a new sport the next time the Olympics are in Canada.


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## weener (Apr 9, 2009)

JayK said:


> Johan Segeborn is awesome! I want a t-shirt with him and a bunch of Marshall stacks with the words "Hi, today we gonna check out..."


On the back "let's go ! "


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

BlueRocker said:


> Total coincidence, but I found this and watched it last night.


He makes it sound great, but almost everything he plays sounds great. He's the only channel I watch everything put up. A big part of his sound, besides being a good player, is it's well mic'd and recorded and he adds reverb in the post processing. 
After his TS15 video came out a bunch showed up on kijiji for $150 $200 etc. Not sure these are $200 amps. 
He has not done a YGM3 or YBA1 video yet...but I'm guessing he will one day.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

JayK said:


> Yes I guess the 3-way switch can still be called a "master volume" since it is the final volume control, but it is after the power section instead of before like a traditional "master volume" (or master vol on rest of the TS series).


Yes, they call it a master volume switch, and it is after the power amp as you say. However, it simply puts a resistor in _series _with the speaker, so you do not really drive the power section harder, as you are reducing current. There are not really any benefits tonally to be had from working a SS power stage harder.


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## JayK (Feb 18, 2020)

tomee2 said:


> He has not done a YGM3 or YBA1 video yet...but I'm guessing he will one day.


He has a video comparing several amps that a YGL-3 is included in. My semi-biased opinion is that the YGL sounded the best...
He really needs to try a YBA-1, maybe they are hard to come by in Sweeden (but he got hold of a YGL-3 somehow lol).


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

JayK said:


> He has a video comparing several amps that a YGL-3 is included in. My semi-biased opinion is that the YGL sounded the best...
> He really needs to try a YBA-1, maybe they are hard to come by in Sweeden (but he got hold of a YGL-3 somehow lol).


My personal favourite is the yba2b. I have owned a yba1, ygm3, yba2a, yba2b head. The only amp I miss that I e er got rid of is that yba2b head. Dead simple amp but it sounded amazing and was the perfect wattage.


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## JayK (Feb 18, 2020)

jb welder said:


> However, it simply puts a resistor in _series _with the speaker, so you do not really drive the power section harder, as you are reducing current.


So would you say it would make no difference to the sound if these resistors were before or after the power stage? 
I just figure if that were true, they would have gone with 1/2W resistors before the power stage instead of the 10W ones after...


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

JayK said:


> So would you say it would make no difference to the sound if these resistors were before or after the power stage?
> I just figure if that were true, they would have gone with 1/2W resistors before the power stage instead of the 10W ones after...


You make a very good point. I can only speculate. Perhaps it was an afterthought? Or maybe they used a board that was also used in a higher power version that had the master vol. pot connected to a different preamp board?
Not really sure. All I know is the last thing you want to hear is the kind of distortion a solid-state power amp makes when clipped. It's just horrible.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Those are relatively low end chips so yeah, I would expect it not to be a glorious distortion, but there are a number of pedals and classic pro rec gear that made great distortion out of ss transistors. Even a few fuzzes that use basic silicon darlington pairs (usually discrete vs these TIP chips, but not anything special, not even ge, so relatively equivalent) with no clipping diodes.

eta: I don't think they designed the TS series in a way where you could easily clip the output chips, but things do get hairy in an interesting way before squaring out. And it's not (just) the speaker or the preamp. And no, it's no replacement for proper tube tone or responsiveness, but it's own thing. I wouldn't want to use one all the time (I know folks who do), but sometimes it's just the thing.


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## JayK (Feb 18, 2020)

Granny Gremlin said:


> but things do get hairy in an interesting way before squaring out. And it's not (just) the speaker or the preamp.


This is what I am curious about. 
I don't see them mass producing an amp with a 3-way rocker switch and pair of 5 or 10W resistors - when a single 1/2W pot before power stage would do, and also give better volume control (as in the rest of the TS series), unless there was some kind of advantage...
Or maybe it was arbitrary and the designer thought it was just cool/different, or a gimmick they thought would sell more amps somehow... who knows.


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## JayK (Feb 18, 2020)

On a side note, my one TS-15 had a voice coil rub in one speaker and small cone tear on the other. Replaced them with Celestion 8-15's. At first I liked the originals better, but now that they are breaking I am starting to dig them. They have lots of crunch, was a harsh crunch at first, but smoothing out now and I think they are suiting the amp well. Even though only rated 95db they are way louder than the originals. Was looking at the hemp cone Eminence 820h's to compare, or even some of the Weber 8's (vintage series), but they are much more money (esp shipping etc on the Webers from the US).
But just got a new axe so speaker experimentation fund is on hold for a while. 

Amp sounds way better as a head into my 15" cab w/fullback at louder volumes anyway... Anyone with a TS-15 collecting dust should really try it as a head into a bigger cab. You just need to make a speaker cable with female spade connectors on one end and you're good to go.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

thx Jay, good to know!

I have a TS-15 missing one of the original speakers, ( it had a crappy car stereo speaker wired in ) I might give that a go


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## JayK (Feb 18, 2020)

In addition to using it as a head with internal speakers disconnected, making the "extension cable" also lets you mess around with hooking the speakers in series and parallel. Just don't go below 4 ohms total if running the amp on full power mode (is why I went with 16 ohm replacements, so I get 4 ohms with everything in parallel with an 8 ohm ext).

Right now my fav mix is having the internal speakers in series - then in parallel with the extension cab. So the extension cab dominates and there is still some character from the 8's in the overall sound. 

With everything in parallel the 8's were drowning out the goodness of the 15 a bit, probably mostly because of cab positioning (8's are higher/more direct to my ears).

Also FYI if popping new speakers in a TS-15, chances are the frames will be bigger than the stock speakers. Not a huge deal if you have them back loaded, but may have to make the baffle holes bigger if you want front loaded. Strangely, my one TS-15 is front loaded with removable grille, and the other is back loaded with grille cloth on the baffle...


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

JayK said:


> I don't see them mass producing an amp with a 3-way rocker switch and pair of 5 or 10W resistors - when a single 1/2W pot before power stage would do, and also give better volume control (as in the rest of the TS series), unless there was some kind of advantage...
> Or maybe it was arbitrary and the designer thought it was just cool/different, or a gimmick they thought would sell more amps somehow... who knows.


I followed up on your question with a guy that designs SS amps to be more tube-like. He said the key here is that adding the resistors in series with the speaker lowers the damping factor. Less damping is a big contributor to the tube amp sound we like. With a tube amp you would not get away with it as you need to keep the load close to rated impedance. But with SS power amps, there is no danger in running into a high impedance (or open) load.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

This TS-75 head for $200 popped up on kijiji

Traynor TS-75 Guitar amp head | Amps & Pedals | London | Kijiji


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

laristotle said:


> This TS-75 head for $200 popped up on kijiji
> 
> Traynor TS-75 Guitar amp head | Amps & Pedals | London | Kijiji


That's super cool. I had the ts60b combo which had a similar control layout but was a beast to move around. I always wanted a head version of it because I loved it's sound. 

One other thing with these amps is the power. The 60 I had was ridiculously loud. It seemed much louder than most SS amps I have played. I am not sure if I was imagining that. It seemed I barely pushed that amp, and I was playing in a really loud stoner rock band.


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## JayK (Feb 18, 2020)

Very cool. But I've never understood the point of having both the usual t/m/b controls and a graphic eq at the same time (also seen on many bass amps out there).
Wouldn't proper use of the graphic eq make the t/m/b knobs redundant?


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

JayK said:


> Very cool. But I've never understood the point of having both the usual t/m/b controls and a graphic eq at the same time (also seen on many bass amps out there).
> Wouldn't proper use of the graphic eq make the t/m/b knobs redundant?


@JayK It's actually footswitch controllable. You can almost use it as a second channel. I did that on bass to have a crazy ratty sound when I would engage the graphical eq. It's an odd, but interesting feature.


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## JayK (Feb 18, 2020)

torndownunit said:


> @JayK It's actually footswitch controllable. You can almost use it as a second channel. I did that on bass to have a crazy ratty sound when I would engage the graphical eq. It's an odd, but interesting feature.


Ah, using it as a separate channel makes sense then!


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Traynor TS-75 Solid State Electric Guitar Combo Amplifier
I gigged with one exactly like this ...with the 15" rcf for about 5 years, worked really well with the mutron octave divider I was running at the time...no complaints, then I discovered the new crop of Hiwatts at Kalua Music.


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## JayK (Feb 18, 2020)

I was actually able to contact the designer of the TS series... He said the "tri-comp" limiter in the preamp was the main contributor to the tone and vibe of these amps. In the MV models he says the master vol helped avoid hard clipping in the power amp.
For the TS-15, it was introduced when Traynor wanted a small practice amp with just v/b/t controls like a Fender Champ (they had already been making other TS models for years). They went with the 2x8 as there was a surplus of the 8" PA speakers they found sounded good with guitar (also in YGM-4?). Turns out is was much louder than they intended when cranked up for rock tones, so they added the big series resistors on the speakers. As a side benefit they found the resistors helped smooth the harsh "edges" of the power stage clipping. Probably the damping factor that @jb welder mentioned on this thread.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

JayK said:


> I was actually able to contact the designer of the TS series...


Nice work. Glad to hear he is still around and willing to share his expertise.


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