# Here are all the answers to life and proper perspectives for being happy and sad. And all about bad dogs and proper leaders. Life’s answer is....



## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

Play more guitar...


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

42


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

> Play more guitar...


Ok. That I understand.


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## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

laristotle said:


> 42


I see what you did there. Eeeeexcelent. 👍

(I have no idea)


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i'm gonna call b.s. on the part about bad dogs. there is no such thing as a bad dog. only bad owners


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

Johnny Spune said:


> I see what you did there. Eeeeexcelent. 👍
> 
> (I have no idea)


I think the reference is from Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy.


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## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

cheezyridr said:


> i'm gonna call b.s. on the part about bad dogs. there is no such thing as a bad dog. only bad owners


You are correct. In chapter three it tells how to turn bad dog owners into good dog owners by playing more guitar. And states as you have pointed out that there are no such thing as bad dogs. 

(The bad dog thing came from an earlier deleted thread-long story- but your still right)


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Exercise, discipline and affection.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)




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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

I just want to know...IF, and I say IF I was a bad dog owner, and I played alot of guitar, would I turn into a good dog? I have reasons for asking this...


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 357366


I don`t think I can pull that look off, but I`m gonna keep the pic just in case....


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Jim Wellington said:


> I just want to know...IF, and I say IF I was a bad dog owner, and I played alot of guitar, would I turn into a good dog? I have reasons for asking this...


you can never be a dog. i know that some people will tell you that if you feel you are a dog born in a man's body, then you are a dog, and should be addressed as one, but that would just be enabling mental illness.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)




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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

He’s a good dog, Eric.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

I got bit on the back of my leg by a dog when I was 14. It was chained to a post in the front yard of neighbors and it knew exactly how long its chain was, and I didnt.
Sorry but I'm still scared of dogs today.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

butterknucket said:


>


can't be wrong with leslie west.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

cheezyridr said:


> i'm gonna call b.s. on the part about bad dogs. there is no such thing as a bad dog. only bad owners


I'd disagree. There are bad breeders. I know experienced dog owners who got a few bad ones. The dogs were ok for the first year or so and then they turned.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

I guess it is the language barrier... :-/


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

butterknucket said:


> I'd disagree. There are bad breeders. I know experienced dog owners who got a few bad ones. The dogs were ok for the first year or so and then they turned.


i had a malmute once that was retarded. i don't mean "really stupid". i mean actual retarded. i kept him 3 years and i just couldn't do it anymore, it was too much for me at the time. i rehomed him. he wasn't a bad dog, he just had problems i couldn't handle. not his fault. 
i have seen dogs that were mean too, if that's what you're talking about. but every one of those dogs was that way because of being mistreated or poorly trained, or had some physical ailment that made them irritable/unstable.
a _healthy_ dog that's properly trained and cared for is always happy. i have always trained every dog i ever had to love everybody. over the years, i have refined it well enough that you couldn't MAKE my dogs bite you. not without trapping them so they can't get away, and physically hurting them. even first time strangers.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

tomee2 said:


> I got bit on the back of my leg by a dog when I was 14. It was chained to a post in the front yard of neighbors and it knew exactly how long its chain was, and I didnt.
> Sorry but I'm still scared of dogs today.


I got bit in the back of the leg by a dog when I was 11. It had escaped from its yard. I love dogs.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

mawmow said:


> I guess it is the language barrier... :-/


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Okay Player said:


> I got bit in the back of the leg by a dog when I was 11. It had escaped from its yard. I love dogs.


I like dogs too, but my first reaction when a dog barks is still a pretty good jump. Those owners had trouble with that dog later but it was all their fault. Bad owners made that a bad dog.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

tomee2 said:


> I like dogs too, but my first reaction when a dog barks is still a pretty good jump. Those owners had trouble with that dog later but it was all their fault. Bad owners made that a bad dog.


To be fair, if a dog lunges and barks at someone jumping is a pretty normal reaction.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> i'm gonna call b.s. on the part about bad dogs. there is no such thing as a bad dog. only bad owners


Most of the time that’s true... but not absolutely. Dogs can have mental problems/defects the same way people can.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

cheezyridr said:


> or had some physical ailment that made them irritable/unstable.


I think you can breed that in.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

jb welder said:


> I think you can breed that in.


of course you can. still, not the dog's fault.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

cheezyridr said:


> of course you can. still, not the dog's fault.


Well...not that it matters, but i have to disagree. When you have a litter of, lets say 8 puppies. Their personalities will vary as will their abilities. I say this because when I was growing up my older brother had a kennel full of Walker fox hounds(yes, I was raised as a hillbilly). So i constantly had al least 10 dogs to hang with...and I did. I love dogs. Yet, regardless of how smart and ambitious and healthy a set of parents were, the abilities of the off spring varied, and this became apparent when training started.

With that said, all vicious untrustworthy dogs I`ve encountered have become that through abuse and neglect. Insecure dogs have sometimes been separated from the litter prematurely(separation anxiety). This covers most behaviour problems. The law of unintended outcomes will have to take responsibility for the rest...lol.

Assholes own violent dogs that you can`t trust...it`s a reflection of the owner alot of times(territorial/paranoid). I bet we agree on that at least.

I had a German Shepard female that was like my kid. I loved her as you should a family member. She would eat you if she caught you uninvited in my house at night. She would also sit on the neighbors back porch and share ice cream cones with their kids when they were little. My neighbors knew her, and everyone who knew her trusted her. The smartest dog i`ve ever lived with.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

we DO agree on alot. i also agree that in a litter of pups, they'll all have different personalities and abilities.
with 10+ dogs, they're only going to get a certain amount of individual attention, unless working with them is the only thing you have to do. that's definitely going to be a factor in how they turn out. 

my brother had a chocolate lab. it had obedience training, and was a pretty good dog - unless there was a thunderstorm. if there was a flicker of lightning or a rumble of thunder, he would get on the couch, even though he wasn't allowed. once he did that, it was his couch, and no one but my brother could get on the couch after that. it became his couch till he calmed down. he wasn't a very affectionate dog, because my brother didn't train him to be. he was mostly a hunting dog that lived in the house. i think if i raised that dog, he would have had a different personality. but i don't raise hunting dogs. i'm not sure i could, because i never did it before. the only things my dogs hunt are crumbs, affection, and yellow jackets. why they seem to all love eating them i don't understand, but i sure do appreciate it. hahahaha


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

cheezyridr said:


> we DO agree on alot. i also agree that in a litter of pups, they'll all have different personalities and abilities.
> with 10+ dogs, they're only going to get a certain amount of individual attention, unless working with them is the only thing you have to do. that's definitely going to be a factor in how they turn out.
> 
> my brother had a chocolate lab. it had obedience training, and was a pretty good dog - unless there was a thunderstorm. if there was a flicker of lightning or a rumble of thunder, he would get on the couch, even though he wasn't allowed. once he did that, it was his couch, and no one but my brother could get on the couch after that. it became his couch till he calmed down. he wasn't a very affectionate dog, because my brother didn't train him to be. he was mostly a hunting dog that lived in the house. i think if i raised that dog, he would have had a different personality. but i don't raise hunting dogs. i'm not sure i could, because i never did it before. the only things my dogs hunt are crumbs, affection, and yellow jackets. why they seem to all love eating them i don't understand, but i sure do appreciate it. hahahaha


My shep had her own couch as well...and as far as thunderstorms...During a thunderstorm I could always find her hiding behind the shower curtain in the bathroom. Her favorite word were "pizza" and "truck". She lived to 14 and took half my heart with her when she departed.

From my experience, the best hunting dogs aren`t always the easiest to live with. They never relax and are enslaved to their nose..lol. Yet i`ve met some labs that are quite content with getting belly rubs, ear scratchings, couches and treats.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

long ago when I was between dogs, we had a beautiful black lab show up at the house, just to hang out. Made himself right to home. We played with him, but didn't feed him. Obviously someone's dog, collar and full tags, and he was well kept. We called bylaw the next day, and someone came & picked him up. The dog came back a day or two later, and kept coming back again, and again, and again. If we were at work, he'd be waiting on the deck for us when we got home. This went on for about a month. Then stopped.

We found out a little too late that the dog's pervious owner had just passed away (cancer) and her husband had zero interest in the dog. They lived almost 3 blocks away. The dog (his name was Buddy) had chosen us for his new home. We had no idea, or we would have never kept returning him.

Regrets, I've had a few.......


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Lincoln said:


> long ago when I was between dogs, we had a beautiful black lab show up at the house, just to hang out. Made himself right to home. We played with him, but didn't feed him. Obviously someone's dog, collar and full tags, and he was well kept. We called bylaw the next day, and someone came & picked him up. The dog came back a day or two later, and kept coming back again, and again, and again. If we were at work, he'd be waiting on the deck for us when we got home. This went on for about a month. Then stopped.
> 
> We found out a little too late that the dog's pervious owner had just passed away (cancer) and her husband had zero interest in the dog. They lived almost 3 blocks away. The dog (his name was Buddy) had chosen us for his new home. We had no idea, or we would have never kept returning him.
> 
> Regrets, I've had a few.......


ages ago, i picked up a "free to good home" black lab. this dog absolutely adored my son, who was 4 or 5 at the time. it was a male, but my son named it lucy because it reminded him of lucy from charlie brown. it didn't like the boy's mother at all. it was apparently an excellent judge of character. the dog never gave me the slightest bit of trouble, and would follow the boy around and faithfully do whatever he asked. but he would sneer (i'm not even kidding) at the wife, and ignore her commands every single time. she got rid of it while i was at work one day, claiming it ran off. no way on god's green earth would that dog have chosen to leave my boy. i know she let it go somewhere and lied to me about it.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

cheezyridr said:


> he would sneer (i'm not even kidding) at the wife


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## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

cheezyridr said:


> ages ago, i picked up a "free to good home" black lab. this dog absolutely adored my son, who was 4 or 5 at the time. it was a male, but my son named it lucy because it reminded him of lucy from charlie brown. it didn't like the boy's mother at all. it was apparently an excellent judge of character. the dog never gave me the slightest bit of trouble, and would follow the boy around and faithfully do whatever he asked. but he would sneer (i'm not even kidding) at the wife, and ignore her commands every single time. she got rid of it while i was at work one day, claiming it ran off. no way on god's green earth would that dog have chosen to leave my boy. i know she let it go somewhere and lied to me about it.


Gettimg rid of someone’s dog on the sly. That’s nasty, nasty. Not cool at all.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Diablo said:


> Most of the time that’s true... but not absolutely. Dogs can have mental problems/defects the same way people can.


My brother in law is a dog handler (I obviously cannot say where) and as good as a trainer and handler he is, he will never fully trust a dog. No matter how well they behave, or how obedient, he is on guard. He has said many, many times... "_at the end of the day, it is an animal. It's ancestors have been wild a lot longer than they have ever been domesticated_". 

We're seeing it now with our "old girl". She's had a very good life. Had her from a pup, she's never had any mistreatment. As she ages, she's getting crotchety, and there will come a point where I trust her less & less. She will revert. There's no doubt, just time. I just hope her body goes before her mind. If she's as big & strong as she is now, and then becomes senile, that is worrisome. 

As mentioned, this *does not* make her a bad dog. Just, a dog.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

SWLABR said:


> _It's ancestors have been wild a lot longer than they have ever been domesticated_".


The same can be said for people.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

SWLABR said:


> As she ages, she's getting crotchety, and there will come a point where I trust her less & less


ever consider that she's feeling the aches and pains as she ages ?
the longer I survive , the more crotchety I become too ... (all those injuries catching up )
had many a dog ( and cat ) love me to the end and never once "turned" 
( broke my heart each time when they had to be put down  )


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## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

The vet had to put my old dog down a couple years ago. I held her in my arms to the very end and then some so she knew she was loved till she was gone.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

oldjoat said:


> ever consider that she's feeling the aches and pains as she ages ?
> the longer I survive , the more crotchety I become too ... (all those injuries catching up )
> had many a dog ( and cat ) love me to the end and never once "turned"
> ( broke my heart each time when they had to be put down  )


Without question. Touch wood, I have only had one or two that I couldn't trust till the day they pass (or I had to call the vet). I think for the most part, an attentive owner (which think I am) can tell the difference between mental, and physical decay.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

oldjoat said:


> ever consider that she's feeling the aches and pains as she ages ?
> the longer I survive , the more crotchety I become too ... (all those injuries catching up )
> had many a dog ( and cat ) love me to the end and never once "turned"
> ( broke my heart each time when they had to be put down  )


I think thats exactly what hes considering.
But the analogy is not the same...humans have much more evolved brains. as grumpy as you may get, you know not to attack your wife or kids. you know theres other ways to communicate with others, you have more tools at your disposal. a dog does not have the same options or intelligence. dogs dont have hands that are much good for anything so often their first instinct is to bite.
A dog has the mental capacity of a 2-3yr old human at best. Think of how rational 2 yr olds are when they get frustrated and how they can act out, tantrums etc. when even that declines, anything can happen.

My wife had a dog that went nuts in old age. it had to be put down for their safety as it would bite, unprovoked. Sad, but it happens.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Jim Wellington said:


> The same can be said for people.


i'm not so sure about that.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

cheezyridr said:


> i'm not so sure about that.


I`ll bite....enlighten me.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

Diablo said:


> Think of how rational 2 yr olds are when they get frustrated and how they can act out,


Have you ever worked in a retirement home? Nurses and in home care workers get clobbered daily.

Dementia for humans isn`t new. The dog loses it`s capacity just like any other mammal. My 14 year old shep was very sick when she died, but still never lashed out at anyone, because she was totally socialized. You could step on her, and she wouldn`t bite. On her worst day she was more trustworthy than a human, in part due to her limited mental capacity...no ability to be egocentric.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Jim Wellington said:


> I`ll bite....enlighten me.


before we were human, we were...not human. once we became human, we were no longer the animal that we were before being humans. a domesticated (not wild) animal, is one which has been selectively bred to live alongside humans. one WE became humans, we were already living beside each other. humans were never wild creatures in the same sense that an animal is considered wild.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Jim Wellington said:


> Have you ever worked in a retirement home? Nurses and in home care workers get clobbered daily.
> 
> Dementia for humans isn`t new. The dog loses it`s capacity just like any other mammal. My 14 year old shep was very sick when she died, but still never lashed out at anyone, because she was totally socialized. You could step on her, and she wouldn`t bite. On her worst day she was more trustworthy than a human, in part due to her limited mental capacity...no ability to be egocentric.


I think we're actually on about the same thing... I think

My dog is 100% socialized. The aged in retirement homes are 100% socialized. 

When either of them lose their full or partial mental capacity, they (some, not all) can "revert" back to basic instincts to protect themselves. I have known some really aggressive senile or demented older folks. They are so confused about their surroundings they lash out. A human who has never taken a swing at anyone in their youth, can suddenly become violent when they deteriorate. A nurse is trying to administer medicine, and caretaker trying to bath them... if they do not know who you are, or why you are touching them, they can react. It's human nature to protect yourself from harm, whether real or misinterpreted. A dog who has never bitten in their youth, can suddenly, and very unpredictably bite when they are in a diminished mental capacity as well. 

A dog _may_ bite because of confusion, or (as mentioned earlier) pain. I don't think there are too many seniors taking swings at PSW's cause their arthritis is plaguing them. (I am in no way minimalizing arthritis.... I see it in my dad. It's awful & mean)

Personnel experience is just that, personal. If you've had dogs that never, ever got to that point, awesome. I hope you keep that streak alive. I too have not had any that got to that point, but I've seen it. And, as I said "personal", you mention a "Shep", which I'm assuming is a German Shepard. I (personally) would never own one. Because I (personally) have never seen a truly well adjusted one. Too many times as a kid, "don't go near King". "Can you wait out here till I put Blackie in the backyard?" "Don't pet Freddie". These are all real things I've grown up with from aunts/uncles, to friends, to neighbors. 

Not fully trusting my dog does not make me a bad owner, and not being fully trusted by me does not make my dog bad. My personal experience has taught me the things I do. And don't do.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

cheezyridr said:


> before we were human, we were...not human. once we became human, we were no longer the animal that we were before being humans. a domesticated (not wild) animal, is one which has been selectively bred to live alongside humans. one WE became humans, we were already living beside each other. humans were never wild creatures in the same sense that an animal is considered wild.


"Humans were never wild creatures in the same sense that an animal is considered wild"

What do humans revert to if they aren`t socialized by other humans during infancy? With no language and no higher skills or tools will they revert to acting like primates?


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

SWLABR said:


> Too many times as a kid, "don't go near King". "Can you wait out here till I put Blackie in the backyard?" "Don't pet Freddie". These are all real things I've grown up with from aunts/uncles, to friends, to neighbors.



You made a life experience reference...okay...life experience has taught me that people who own untrustworthy dogs don`t know much, or have little concern for what`s going on with them. If there`s a dog around that you can`t trust, there is a purpose in that for the owner, either that, or the owner does not care about making people uncomfortable when they visit. I didn`t develope this opinion from one dog, or one owner. My older brother had a kennel full of competition foxhounds. We also had Border Collies, Irish Setters and a couple of cross breeds over the years on our farm when I was growing up. We never had one you couldn`t trust. No one ever got bit, and we didn`t issue warnings to friends and family when they visited. But my uncle had a dog that was so bad I never went outside as a little boy when I visited....and that suited him right down to the ground. I`ve met many cross dogs in my life, and in my experience the owners of such could care less, or conceal the fact that the dog is expected to kill or attack anything that comes on the property after dark.

As far as your comment regarding German Shepard`s. They can be intimidating. They are also one of the most intelligent and loyal breeds out there. I wouldn`t own any other breed after having lived a life with 2 of them. They serve the following roles in my life....smoke/fire detector when sleeping, creepy people warning, home and property protection, child body guard, exercise coach, good spirits coach, truck attendant and comic relief and best friend to man.
I don`t own one right now, but the neighbor has a purebred that visits me daily. He just left after getting his daily ration of chicken breast...what a clown...lol.

Yes I am partial to GS dogs...and their wild brethren.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I’ve known many great GS’s. And some not good at all ones.
Not a knock on the breed, but like anything potentially lethal, I’m not sure just anybody should be able to own one (or various other breeds), without any sort of training, vetting process.
on any given day, i think I’m more likely to get bitten by a Jack Russell than a GS. But the potential worst case scenarios are very different.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Diablo said:


> I’ve known many great GS’s. And some not good at all ones.
> Not a knock on the breed, but like anything potentially lethal, I’m not sure just anybody should be able to own one (or various other breeds), without any sort of training, vetting process.
> on any given day, i think I’m more likely to get bitten by a Jack Russell than a GS. But the potential worst case scenarios are very different.


I was a courier for many many years, and was bitten a few times. Every single time it was immediately after the owner said: "_don't worry, he/she doesn't bite_". 

I was merely standing in a doorway, invited by the homeowner, not moving. Thankfully, 1 Jack Russel, 1 Wiener-dog and some other small mouthed runt.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Jim Wellington said:


> You made a life experience reference...okay...life experience has taught me that people who own untrustworthy dogs don`t know much, or have little concern for what`s going on with them. If there`s a dog around that you can`t trust, there is a purpose in that for the owner, either that, or the owner does not care about making people uncomfortable when they visit. I didn`t develope this opinion from one dog, or one owner. My older brother had a kennel full of competition foxhounds. We also had Border Collies, Irish Setters and a couple of cross breeds over the years on our farm when I was growing up. We never had one you couldn`t trust. No one ever got bit, and we didn`t issue warnings to friends and family when they visited. But my uncle had a dog that was so bad I never went outside as a little boy when I visited....and that suited him right down to the ground. I`ve met many cross dogs in my life, and in my experience the owners of such could care less, or conceal the fact that the dog is expected to kill or attack anything that comes on the property after dark.
> 
> As far as your comment regarding German Shepard`s. They can be intimidating. They are also one of the most intelligent and loyal breeds out there. I wouldn`t own any other breed after having lived a life with 2 of them. They serve the following roles in my life....smoke/fire detector when sleeping, creepy people warning, home and property protection, child body guard, exercise coach, good spirits coach, truck attendant and comic relief and best friend to man.
> I don`t own one right now, but the neighbor has a purebred that visits me daily. He just left after getting his daily ration of chicken breast...what a clown...lol.
> ...


I didn't develop my mistrust of GS's with one either. In my memory, more ill tempered ones have crossed my travels than trustworthy ones. But I do not want to bash them as a breed. At (nearly) 50, as many as I've seen, it is still a drop in the ocean. I am actually thankful to hear you've only had positive interactions.

Wild brethren?? I own 3 Huskies. (all Sibies) I've read they are the closest thing to a wolf.

I will support the thought "_no bad dogs, only bad owners_" as mostly true, because there are very stupid owners, and more commonly ignorant owners. They are the bigger issue than "bad dogs". As @Diablo said, not all dogs should be allowed to be owned by just anyone. There really should be some vetting. I've adopted from the Humane Society, there are a lot of questions in order to take one of those home. There are no such hoops to jump through to buy (any number of historically or *potentially*) aggressive dogs.

We have "couple-friends" who own a tea-cup variety of something stupid... I don't care. That thing bites everyone! If he holds it, it will try to bite her. If she holds it, it will try to bite him. I can hold it, and it would bite the Pope. It's an idiot. It's like that because it (probably) displayed those tendencies when it was a pup that no one bothered to address because it's "harmless".
It bite their (then) infant granddaughter. The solution was to keep him in a bedroom when the son's family visited. WHAT?!?!?!?! I think we all know a large breed (any large breed) would not get the same pass.
They are great people, they are bad owners!


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

SWLABR said:


> I was a courier for many many years, and was bitten a few times. Every single time it was immediately after the owner said: "_don't worry, he/she doesn't bite_".
> 
> I was merely standing in a doorway, invited by the homeowner, not moving. Thankfully, 1 Jack Russel, 1 Wiener-dog and some other small mouthed runt.


I met a police officer in the K9 division once... he said the number 1 question he gets asked by the public when hes with his dog, is "does it bite?". He said his answer is always "Yes. Its a dog. Thats what they do". Essentially that you have to assume that any dog can bite you there is no 100% assurances.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

SWLABR said:


> I was a courier for many many years, and was bitten a few times. Every single time it was immediately after the owner said: "_don't worry, he/she doesn't bite_".
> 
> I was merely standing in a doorway, invited by the homeowner, not moving. Thankfully, 1 Jack Russel, 1 Wiener-dog and some other small mouthed runt.


I got bit by my friends beagle when i was about 6....I was pulling on his ears at the time and being a little bastard, and he showed me the error in my actions. Still have the scar on my index finger...I deserved it. I wouldn`t wish that experience on any child, but it was a lesson that served me well. It didn`t scar my psyche for life , as it seems to with some others. Maybe because I knew who was at fault?

My nephew got bit in the face at a farm by a shepard this retarded farmer owned. No lasting scars on my nephew thank god...the owner promptly shot the dog, and got another one and tied it on a chain in neglect to repeat the process with some other unsuspecting child or adult. Some people have mental limitations that dogs just cant live up to it would seem.
Take an intelligent animal, a social pack animal no less, tie it on a chain and isolate it from any socialization, and then be surprised when its anti social....lol.

I have no experience with the little breeds. I understand they bark and bite alot. But I did share a place in Grande Prairie briefly with a young dude who had this tiny little fellow who was a pure gem to be around. I think he used him for girl bait, and man was he effective. "Chubbs" was his name...and he was "the man" when it came to snagging the attention of the 20 year old females this guy was trailing. It was amusing to watch.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

Diablo said:


> I met a police officer in the K9 division once... he said the number 1 question he gets asked by the public when hes with his dog, is "does it bite?". He said his answer is always "Yes. Its a dog. Thats what they do". Essentially that you have to assume that any dog can bite you there is no 100% assurances.


I fear humans much more so. They can do more damage and are the masters of concealing their intent to harm. Dogs never fool me, people often do. Your cop friends dog is trained to attack. Like the cop for that matter...lol.

But seriously....If I was out walking and was approached by a big German Shepard with no tags and looking hungry i would be on the defensive until i could identify his intentions...They aren`t to be messed with once they are on the attack, and generally speaking have little concern or trust in those outside their adopted family.


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## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

Got my finger bit by a human in a bar fight once. Damn thing got infected..... bad human.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Jim Wellington said:


> "Humans were never wild creatures in the same sense that an animal is considered wild"
> 
> What do humans revert to if they aren`t socialized by other humans during infancy? With no language and no higher skills or tools will they revert to acting like primates?


very little human behavior is instinct. almost all of it is _learned_ behavior. no one teaches a trap door spider how to hunt. it is born knowing how. no one teaches a monarch how to find capistrano. it's born knowing how to navigate. baby hippos are born knowing how to swim, and to hold their breath under water after they are born. 
human babies have to be spanked into breathing. chimps don't. if a human baby is put into the wild, it's going to die. there are no true stories of romulus and remus. feral kids had parents at least for a while. the reason those kids seem wild is because they weren't taught the gajillion things that allow us to conceptualize the many automatic thoughts and behaviors that make up human behavior that we know. bushmen have babies, and they aren't feral. they will behave differently from the kids you may have had because their learned behavior is different. you can't judge society and civility of other cultures by your yardstick when the world they live in is not the same as yours. you're going to get fundamentally different results, because they have to survive in their world, not yours. but do you want to know something amazing?
one of the natural things all humans are born with, no matter where they are born, is the 12 note scale. sing do-re-me to any baby, anywhere in the world, and they can give you the next note. some of us are tone deaf and can't sing well, but ALL of us instinctually know intervals. bobby mcferin assisted in the study that proved this many years ago. cool huh?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> very little human behavior is instinct. almost all of it is _learned_ behavior. no one teaches a trap door spider how to hunt. it is born knowing how. no one teaches a monarch how to find capistrano. it's born knowing how to navigate. baby hippos are born knowing how to swim, and to hold their breath under water after they are born.
> human babies have to be spanked into breathing. chimps don't. if a human baby is put into the wild, it's going to die. there are no true stories of romulus and remus. feral kids had parents at least for a while. the reason those kids seem wild is because they weren't taught the gajillion things that allow us to conceptualize the many automatic thoughts and behaviors that make up human behavior that we know. bushmen have babies, and they aren't feral. they will behave differently from the kids you may have had because their learned behavior is different. you can't judge society and civility of other cultures by your yardstick when the world they live in is not the same as yours. you're going to get fundamentally different results, because they have to survive in their world, not yours. but do you want to know something amazing?
> one of the natural things all humans are born with, no matter where they are born, is the 12 note scale. sing do-re-me to any baby, anywhere in the world, and they can give you the next note. some of us are tone deaf and can't sing well, but ALL of us instinctually know intervals. bobby mcferin assisted in the study that proved this many years ago. cool huh?


I always think of our relationship with our pets as being like if we were taken away from our families at a young age by a race of space aliens very different from ourselves that walked differently, communicated differently etc and expected to live among them by a code of rules we do not fully comprehend.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

No, I don`t agree with all the word salad. 



cheezyridr said:


> very little human behavior is instinct


Sorry, don`t agree with that, so the rest is probably a waste of time for me.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Since retiring we've had beagles. They are mild-tempered and their noses will get them into trouble some times:


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Johnny Spune said:


> Got my finger bit by a human in a bar fight once. Damn thing got infected..... bad human.


Ooh bar room staph infection.... gross.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Jim Wellington said:


> No, I don`t agree with all the word salad.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, don`t agree with that, so the rest is probably a waste of time for me.


why don't you agree? do you have anything to show otherwise? please tell me what you think, in more detail than "i disagree". i would like to hear it. maybe i am wrong. maybe i might learn something. i hope you don't end the discussion at this point.
edit: you know who would probably be really useful right now? mhammer. he would have something interesting to say about this, i'm sure of it.


Paul Running said:


> Since retiring we've had beagles. They are mild-tempered and their noses will get them into trouble some times:
> 
> View attachment 357975


i don't care what anyone says, beagles are the coolest dogs on planet earth. of all dogs, i think they have the biggest hearts. i miss mine more than i can even express. i haven't seen them in 3 years, but i think about them every single day.



















below are the dogs who have me now, they are beagle and border collie


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## fretzel (Aug 8, 2014)

As appalling as this is, it makes for an interesting read. 









Genie (feral child) - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/white-house-says-major-biden-201526293.html












The Queen needed stiches after being bitten trying to break up a Corgi fight


Her Majesty the Queen has long loved Corgis since her father King George VI introduced Dookie and Jane to the Royal Family in 1933




www.mirror.co.uk





me, I’m a northern breed guy.
previously had a Malamute that had a heart of gold with people...but completely dominant or apprehensive with other dogs. Was very attentive to my daughter from the day she was born.









currently have a 1 yr old husky, that’s very different. More balanced, good with people but extremely social with other dogs. Have an elderly Aussie shepherd as well that we took in as a rescue when she was 3. Not going to talk much about her...she’s never been all there mentally and is racist.


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