# Is PLEK worth a Heck!



## THRobinson

Ya, I Dr. Seus'd the title all right... 

I have an Agile Les Paul... snagged it super cheap and it's super nice. Fav guitar I've ever owned. But, it could be better.

I plan to put the Slash Alnico II Pro's in it, and switch the pots as well. I'd like to swap the chrome to gold, but the hardware is too good a quality to warrant a cosmetic swap like that.

Neck is fine, few small buzz spots, action a tad high. 

I've gotten pretty proficient with fret dressing. Have done 4 so far with good results. That said, I don't want to risk a mess-up on this one, and since I don't have an abundance of guitars to practice on, I'd rather have a pro handle it or PLEK.

What do you guys think of the PLEK? Is it worth it? Anyone try it through Long & McQuade?

Sounds like a good thing, but the more I read the pricier it gets... strings extra, nut extra, even setup after done is extra and I thought a setup was part of the process, but just neck/frets no bridge action or intonation.

But... could take it in to someone who isn't any better than myself, which is the thing I'm trying to avoid.


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## vokey design

THRobinson said:


> But... could take it in to someone who isn't any better than myself, which is the thing I'm trying to avoid.


This is my fear when I take anything in for repair or service, including me. Somewhere out there is the worst luthier, doctor, dentist, mechanic, and chef in the world ... could this be them?


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## Guest

I tried it and I don't think it is any better than a good tech. I think it is more for high production. 

Spend $150,000 on the machine, then you have to ram through 10-20 guitars a day, 7 days a week to keep the bankers at bay. no time to do proper work.


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## Lord-Humongous

I have several guitars with Plek jobs. A few are factory Gibson’s which are excellent and one guitar that I took to Ian Weston here in Ottawa for a Plek job. His work was like magic. I wouldn’t hesitate to have him do another of my guitars. Now, having L&M send a guitar to Toronto for a Plek job, I dunno.


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## tonewoody

How much is a heck worth these days?


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## THRobinson

tonewoody said:


> How much is a heck worth these days?


Less than a sh!t, but more than a darn...


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## THRobinson

Lord-Humongous said:


> I have several guitars with Plek jobs. A few are factory Gibson’s which are excellent and one guitar that I took to Ian Weston here in Ottawa for a Plek job. His work was like magic. I wouldn’t hesitate to have him do another of my guitars. Now, having L&M send a guitar to Toronto for a Plek job, I dunno.


Ya, it was Les Pauls that got me first interested in the PLEK ... but I'm an hour from any real city (London) so options a bit limited. I know L&M have it, but, they're kinda the Walmart of music stores... not always a bad thing, but, no idea what the skill level is of the guy at the counter... could be a trumpet player and knows nothing about guitars. Then I assume they don't do it in-house, so shipped to someone and just gotta hope they know what I want done (ie. action height and such).

I'd take it to someone with a really good rep for this work, but again, semi-remote area and I don't know any other guitar players so, have no names to go by either. 

PLEK to me seems the more consistent option... so long as the operator knows how to use it. But again, pricey, and doesn't include a top nut, or setup of the bridge when done. If it were all inclusive I'd go for it... but because costs extra, I'm trying to figure out if it's "that" much better than a hand done setup.

... and I guess if I'm brave enough to do it myself.

So far every guitar I've done myself has improved, but weren't great to begin with. Still a mystery buzz on my Squier though. This one's good already.... so greater chance of making it worse than better.


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## Lord-Humongous

THRobinson said:


> Then I assume they don't do it in-house, so shipped to someone and just gotta hope they know what I want done (ie. action height and such).


They send the guitars to Toronto where they have the PLEK machine. 



THRobinson said:


> PLEK to me seems the more consistent option... so long as the operator knows how to use it. But again, pricey, and doesn't include a top nut, or setup of the bridge when done. If it were all inclusive I'd go for it... but because costs extra, I'm trying to figure out if it's "that" much better than a hand done setup.


This may be the case with L&M, but in general I don't think its an accurate statement. My expectation would be that a Plek job would also be accompanied with any other necessary work. And the nut is part of the Plek setup. I can't imagine having a guitar Plek'd but not otherwise set up properly. It's all connected. Now how it's priced from shop to shop might vary depending on the scope of work involved to get the guitar playing perfectly, so I can't comment on that. 

BTW the Plek machine levels your frets, so I don't think you should compare it to a 'hand done setup', I think it's more akin to having your frets leveled & nut slots checked/cut.


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## THRobinson

I always considered a setup to include fret level/crown... otherwise many mid-lower end guitars I think would have great action and major buzzing. 

That Squier with the mystery-buzz (probably simple fix just been too busy) has a great neck, but wow, past the 12th fret, they were all over the place. And sharp... had to file the top and sides on that one. 

Anyways... PLEK pricing at Long & McQuade...

$40 - Initial scan (mandatory)
$140 - Fret level/crown
$140 - Nut 
*Prices do not include setup
$65 - Setup 
Plus $10 for non-locking trem, $20 for locking trem, $10 if neck needs removed for truss adjustment

What I don't get is, how do they check the PLEK work when done if not setup?

So... on a Les Paul (non-trem) I guess.... wow $385! +tax

I heard around $120-$140 and thought maybe try... but then adding up the rest... wow!


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## Guest

THRobinson said:


> I always considered a setup to include fret level/crown... otherwise many mid-lower end guitars I think would have great action and major buzzing.
> 
> That Squier with the mystery-buzz (probably simple fix just been too busy) has a great neck, but wow, past the 12th fret, they were all over the place. And sharp... had to file the top and sides on that one.
> 
> Anyways... PLEK pricing at Long & McQuade...
> 
> $40 - Initial scan (mandatory)
> $140 - Fret level/crown
> $140 - Nut
> *Prices do not include setup
> $65 - Setup
> Plus $10 for non-locking trem, $20 for locking trem, $10 if neck needs removed for truss adjustment
> 
> What I don't get is, how do they check the PLEK work when done if not setup?
> 
> So... on a Les Paul (non-trem) I guess.... wow $385! +tax
> 
> I heard around $120-$140 and thought maybe try... but then adding up the rest... wow!


After it was all done I still had the same issues I went in for, I was told is that's the nature of the guitar... Also I was told I had to change my brand of strings. Apparently Ernie Ball strings are no good. Also I had to go up a gauge. 9's will never work. Then I was told a guitar couldn't be good at both chords and lead. Pick one. And then some more stuff...

Another thing I hate is the luthiers in my area think it is an inside joke to use a garbage junk cheap $20 amp to check out the electric guitars. Almost all of them do it. When I question them about it they laugh and think it's really clever. But they cannot actually check their work because the amp is a toy. At one place they actually were proud of the fact they were using an actual toy they got out of the garbage somewhere...


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## THRobinson

It's a crap shoot... sadly I was gung-ho for PLEK until I found the full price list and did the math. Snagged the guitar for $200... makes no sense to spend double that on the PLEK. I'd rather buy a 2nd guitar. 

... same time, I'm worried about running into your situation.

Anyone on here have "a guy" that's highly recommended and you've used in the London area?


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## guitarman2

For me nothing beats the touch of a talented luthier. I'll travel for a good one. Right now I have a tele being refretted by Freddys Frets. Going off his stellar reviews I'm hoping for big things. He's over an hour away from me but as I said I'll travel and even farther than that if I have to. I've taken acoustics and electrics to Folkway music with excellent results. They are a bit on the expensive side though.
I was recommended Bobs guitar repair in Kitchener but he was way on the expensive side.


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## Budda

Take it to gregg fraser and enjoy your new setup. Super quick turnarounds and he is local. I have been wailing on the prs he repaired for me with no complaints.


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## BSTheTech

Sounds like the Plek machine is only as good as the guy running it. Gibson was taking a beating at last years Namm for just giving a basic Plek on the guitars when the machine was capable of much more. Effectively giving the Plek company a bad name when Gibson was supposed to be showcasing the pinnacle of the machine’s abilities. Unless people are raving about a certain shop’s Plek ability just go find a good luthier.


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## guitarman2

BSTheTech said:


> Sounds like the Plek machine is only as good as the guy running it. Gibson was taking a beating at last years Namm for just giving a basic Plek on the guitars when the machine was capable of much more. Effectively giving the Plek company a bad name when Gibson was supposed to be showcasing the pinnacle of the machine’s abilities. Unless people are raving about a certain shop’s Plek ability just go find a good luthier.


The problem is, whether its a PLEK or a luthier set up "one size fits all", isn't going to work. If you're going to do mass setups then a basic setup is probably the way to go.


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## THRobinson

Budda said:


> Take it to gregg fraser and enjoy your new setup. Super quick turnarounds and he is local. I have been wailing on the prs he repaired for me with no complaints.


Would that be this guy?

http://www.greiggfraser.com/


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## Steadfastly

Heck, I don't know but we had gotten along without PLEK for years so my guess from what I've seen and read is that it is super accurate but it is also a way of making more money when it may not be necessary.


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## Budda

THRobinson said:


> Would that be this guy?
> 
> http://www.greiggfraser.com/


Thats him.


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## THRobinson

Cool, sent an email asking for pricing. Will go from there. Guitar is 90% perfect as is... just wanna get that last 10% done, and upgrade the pots and pickups. At that point, that guitar will be mine 'til I die. 

I have a few guitars I like but willing to sell... but not this one. That's why looking to put some money into it and get it exactly how I want it.


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## gtone

Kinda glad I didn't buy that first Plek machine in Canada. Seriously thought about it, but my local luthier buddy wasn't jazzed on doing a joint venture project, so I shelved the idea. With guitar's popularity seemingly waning and given our poor location here on the prairies, I'm thinking it would've been an uphill battle anyhow and my capital resources would have been put to more profitable use elsewhere as I've made a pretty fair profit on same in the interim.


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## THRobinson

I was reading about that, the concern because guitar sales dropped a lot the past few years. I think the problem is simply that there are so many cheap ones now the market got flooded and now everyone has one.

Fender, for example... USA model was all there was, then you could get a Squire from Korea or something, now it's USA, Mexico, Japan, Korea, Indoneasia... can buy one new for $100 with a starter amp. 

I think guitar sales are the same... just so many used ones online, no one buys new.


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## Steadfastly

THRobinson said:


> I was reading about that, the concern because guitar sales dropped a lot the past few years. I think the problem is simply that there are so many cheap ones now the market got flooded and now everyone has one.
> 
> Fender, for example... USA model was all there was, then you could get a Squire from Korea or something, now it's USA, Mexico, Japan, Korea, Indoneasia... can buy one new for $100 with a starter amp.
> 
> I think guitar sales are the same... just so many used ones online, no one buys new.


That is definitely a big part of it.


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## THRobinson

May be the smart idea to go back to focussing on making just 2... like Fender USA and Fender China. Beginner/Pro...

I bought a Squier for a project guitar and took way way too much research because so many factories and sub-models and variations. Ended up with a Squier SE China that had the same thickness and part-size as the MIM ones. Was way more research than it shoulda been.


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## gtone

Our local Mom & Pop music store only sold 1 guitar this past Christmas season and 20+ ukuleles. They used to have 3 teachers giving guitar lessons twice weekly, now they're down to one part-timer they call as needed. My local luthier buddy had to close his shop, moved it to his basement and is now semi-retired because of a lack of business coming in the door. Think those examples are at least somewhat reflective of the decline of the guitar market locally, if not nationally.


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## deltapapatango

So other than the link posted earlier who has a plek in Canada?


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## Pstar

What is L &M's satisfaction guarantee on their the plek's service satisfaction ?
Was disappointed with folkway on an electric guitar. 1 of the issues was on the action, their response was " it's not an ibanez ". They are on the expensive side, BUT that is o.k., if they would have done the simple job to satisfactory standards.


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## Wardo

I have 3 Gibsons all plek'd at the factory - no dud frets on any of them.

My Telecaster was not plek'd and it has a few dud frets up around the 15th on the B and E. 

I do basic setup myself but prefer to leave nut slots to people who have more experience with that than I do. So 3 setups on electrics done at Cosmo where they lowered the slots and did the rest of it while they were at it - cost was like $50 or something for each guitar. One of their very experienced techs is there late on Tuesday evenings and he's always done my guitars while I waited. They have a Plek machine at Cosmo but said to hold off running the Tele through it when I asked so I'll take the Tele back when I get around to it and see if they can just file the frets that are twanging out - point here is that they didn't try to sell me on an expensive Plek job right away.


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## vadsy

Steadfastly said:


> Heck, I don't know but we had gotten along without PLEK for years so my guess from what I've seen and read is that it is super accurate but it is also a way of making more money when it may not be necessary.


we got along on prayers and essential oils for years but penicillin and Facebook likes work much better. what I'm saying is, it isn't necessary but it sure is an improvement


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## Budda

@Wardo I have one bum fret on my tele and my guy couldn't quite sort it - same general area as you. Let me know how things work out with cosmo.


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## Fred Gifford

Player99 said:


> After it was all done I still had the same issues I went in for, I was told is that's the nature of the guitar... Also I was told I had to change my brand of strings. Apparently Ernie Ball strings are no good. Also I had to go up a gauge. 9's will never work. Then I was told a guitar couldn't be good at both chords and lead. Pick one. And then some more stuff...
> 
> Another thing I hate is the luthiers in my area think it is an inside joke to use a garbage junk cheap $20 amp to check out the electric guitars. Almost all of them do it. When I question them about it they laugh and think it's really clever. But they cannot actually check their work because the amp is a toy. At one place they actually were proud of the fact they were using an actual toy they got out of the garbage somewhere...


$385 + Tax for the PLEK & NUT is an insane price ... pass on that .. and what's wrong with Ernie Ball strings ?? I've use them for years and I buy them at Long & McQuades ... they tell me Ernie's are the best


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## player99

Fred Gifford said:


> $385 + Tax for the PLEK & NUT is an insane price ... pass on that .. and what's wrong with Ernie Ball strings ?? I've use them for years and I buy them at Long & McQuades ... they tell me Ernie's are the best


ACDC get's their SG tone from 9-42 Super Slinkys.


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## vadsy

player99 said:


> ACDC get's their SG tone from 9-42 Super Slinkys.


yea, it comes from the strings...,


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## player99

vadsy said:


> yea, it comes from the strings...,


Don't be snarky.


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## vadsy

player99 said:


> Don't be snarky.


don’t be a Karen


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## player99

vadsy said:


> don’t be a Karen


I stayed out of that thread. So your Karen bounced off. I am unscathed.


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## Pstar

THRobinson said:


> I always considered a setup to include fret level/crown... otherwise many mid-lower end guitars I think would have great action and major buzzing.
> 
> That Squier with the mystery-buzz (probably simple fix just been too busy) has a great neck, but wow, past the 12th fret, they were all over the place. And sharp... had to file the top and sides on that one.
> 
> Anyways... PLEK pricing at Long & McQuade...
> 
> $40 - Initial scan (mandatory)
> $140 - Fret level/crown
> $140 - Nut
> *Prices do not include setup
> $65 - Setup
> Plus $10 for non-locking trem, $20 for locking trem, $10 if neck needs removed for truss adjustment
> 
> What I don't get is, how do they check the PLEK work when done if not setup?
> 
> So... on a Les Paul (non-trem) I guess.... wow $385! +tax
> 
> I heard around $120-$140 and thought maybe try... but then adding up the rest... wow!





Player99 said:


> After it was all done I still had the same issues I went in for, I was told is that's the nature of the guitar... Also I was told I had to change my brand of strings. Apparently Ernie Ball strings are no good. Also I had to go up a gauge. 9's will never work. Then I was told a guitar couldn't be good at both chords and lead. Pick one. And then some more stuff...
> 
> Another thing I hate is the luthiers in my area think it is an inside joke to use a garbage junk cheap $20 amp to check out the electric guitars. Almost all of them do it. When I question them about it they laugh and think it's really clever. But they cannot actually check their work because the amp is a toy. At one place they actually were proud of the fact they were using an actual toy they got out of the garbage somewhere...




wow," ernie ball strings are no good , and gauage 9 don't work" , must have been the tuba player giving advice- un funcking real. 

I was just told no to gauge 9 by folkway - i was in shock, told him i've been using them for over 40 years, bbhhhaaaaa, no problems before. Guess its less forgiving ( less tinkering/time) for them doing their setups.

What do they charge to do a re-fret with binding /nibs ?


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## player99

Pstar said:


> *wow," ernie ball strings are no good , and gauage 9 don't work" , must have been the tuba player giving advice- un funcking real. *
> 
> I was just told no to gauge 9 by folkway - i was in shock, told him i've been using them for over 40 years, bbhhhaaaaa, no problems before. Guess its less forgiving ( less tinkering/time) for them doing their setups.
> 
> What do they charge to do a re-fret with binding /nibs ?


Nope. The repair guy with his own Plek. I was stunned by all the crap I was dished.


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## deltapapatango

player99 said:


> ACDC get's their SG tone from 9-42 Super Slinkys.


Angus did. Malcolm was much larger. 12-58 I believe with a wound G


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## dean701

coming in a little late here but leafing through the thread. Not all guitars are equal. I don't think the reference above to ernie ball strings was brand related but perhaps. From experience, I have seen that some guitars don't like 9's because they don't have enough pull on the neck. If they have a tendency to be too straight or backbowed then 10's give it that extra push. You have to remember that the truss rod is kind of a quirky thing to begin with. It is not going to always give you a completely even flex under the fingerboard. Guitars are wood and metal and anything can happen. Other note, for guitars that have E and B problems high up, are often due to ramping. The truss rod within the neck does nothing for the high frets as it is already attached to the guitar, therefore you can have very slight relief from 1-16, but 17 and up are completely straight. This causes 17 to 22 to be slightly higher than the previous frets. This is the small ramp. The neck join may be at a different fret for different guitars but you get the point. Nothing that a good fret level won't fix. I had some issues along these lines so I asked for a fall away on my higher frets. This can be good in some cases. For those new to this, if you picture the last fret, it could pretty much be as low as you want as it does not have any frets after it. So from 15 up, you can shave the frets from 15 onward slightly lower as you go. In my case, I had to do this a bit but the bigger problem was the radius. If I want to do a 1.5 tone bend on the 15th fret E, it is now following the radius and is in G string territory and is fretting out up there which is why some modern guitars have a compound radius. you can try to get cute with your frets in that area and flatten them out a bit to be a higher radius. I had a plek done on one guitar and I still had issues in that area so the tech had to manually flatten stuff out because the plek couldn't do it. It should also be said that the plek machine does not crown or polish. It is just for leveling. The crowning and polishing has to be done by hand. I watched Cosmo do it. The best part of the plek is the analysis. It reads and measures the nut, fretboard and the frets and determines what needs to be done. You input what you want done. Having said that I think it is great from the analysis side. Even if an experienced luthier can have that available it would be very advantageous. It is so time consuming to use a rocker across every possible position on the fretboard taking into account string bends everywhere. It is also hard for a luthier to perfectly maintain the proper radius across every spot on the board. I've used Darrel at Cosmo for quite a while and also Mike at Peghead is fantastic. Since Cosmo has the machine, I just get them to analyze it first and then we talk about it. Going back to my original point, some guitars are just different. You can have the exact same fret level done on two identical guitars but if you introduce string pull, neck relief and the truss rod, the necks are not guaranteed to flex exactly the same way. I prefer 9's but unfortunately, one of my guitars hates them. Sorry for the long post.


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## bigboki

Perfect video for this thread


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## zztomato

bigboki said:


> Perfect video for this thread


It's interesting that he says that the Plek job and guitar would be worth it for a beginner. Idea being that these guitars are setup awful from the factory and need a lot of dialling in. Well, that is what a good tech will do and doesn't need a Plek job to make the guitar easy to play. That's called a "setup". You could also have the frets levelled and crowned as part of the setup. Also, within one season in Canada, that guitar's Plek job wont add up to a hill of beans. The amount spent on a Plek job could keep that guitar regularly maintained by a pro and playing well for years.

A Plek machine is good for problem necks that do weird things under tension that they are not supposed to do. If the guitar is decent and has a well made neck, I don't think it makes a difference.


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## dean701

I think some people are missing the point. Only trained staff can use a plek machine. You have to be certified You still have to crown and polish the frets manually when using a plek machine as it doesn't do them. It is not plek vs a good luthier. It is a tool that a luthier should have access to. Like I said, you can pay just to have an analysis done and take that to your luthier if needed.


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## zztomato

dean701 said:


> I think some people are missing the point. Only trained staff can use a plek machine. You have to be certified You still have to crown and polish the frets manually when using a plek machine as it doesn't do them. It is not plek vs a good luthier. It is a tool that a luthier should have access to. Like I said, you can pay just to have an analysis done and take that to your luthier if needed.


No. The Plek machine crowns the frets. Would be a pretty stupid idea if it levelled the frets and left the crowning to the human hand.


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## dean701

it can do the crowning but crowning is very simple compared to a perfect level. I watched it at cosmo. The laser cut the tops off of the frets following the programmed radius, they took it off to crown and polish.


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## Jimmy_D

so a laser "cuts the top off the frets" wow that machine has really moved on since I looked last


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## dean701

my fault, it was kind of dark in the room and the laser was on.


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