# Pedal Switcher?



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

What do I need and can I get it cheap  This looks ideal but is expensive.










Looking to stop the tap dancing mid songs that I sometimes have to do. Going from clean with chorus, to od, then to fuzz with delay, then back to clean can get pretty complicated.


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## exhausted (Feb 10, 2006)

How many loops do you think you'll need? There are options for less $$$ depending on the number of loops.

I use this
http://www.decibel11.com/Switch-Dr.html
and this
http://www.decibel11.com/Loop-Expander-.html

for eight loops plus it has switch outputs for amp channel switching etc plus it's MIDI capable.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Depending on the complexity of your needs, they might actually be realized with a small handful of stompswitches. 

Folks tend to think of the typical loop selector as being used to select between a combination of FX, and straight-wire feed through. But the same stompswitch can be used to select between loop A and loop B, if one adds two more phone jacks. 

Okay, now let's "nest" that switch inside of another. Switch A selects between the two loops we've described, and our added Switch B can select between whatever A is set to, OR a different loop. Use closed-circuit jacks that automatically connect to each other if nothing is plugged in and any of those can be set up as a straight feedthrough.

If you want to hike it up another notch, a third stompswitch can be used to select between the other two, or complete bypass.

Of course, what this doesn't do, and can't, is to recombine the same pedals in different permutations and combinations, which the expensive units DO. That's why I say, depending on the complexity of your particular needs.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

exhausted said:


> How many loops do you think you'll need? There are options for less $$$ depending on the number of loops.
> 
> I use this
> http://www.decibel11.com/Switch-Dr.html
> ...


+1 for the Switch Dr. I've had mine for about 3 or 4 months and am loving it. The 4 loops that come on the Dr. may not be enough, but like exhausted said, they have a loop expander you can add. I got mine for a really good price from Charles at Electric Mojo.


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## 782369 (Aug 13, 2015)

Hi.

I recently bought this one: http://www.markoneaudio.co.uk/8-looper_programmable.html

Found it on ebay slightly used. Price was 115 euro with shipping.

Works remarkably well for the price. I really wanted programmable looper with more than 4 switches. Cheap joyos I considered have banks with 4 sounds per bank. This does not suit me because I don't want to switch banks in the middle of a song.All in all I'm really happy with it and have played several gigs with it and no problems have occurred.

Few things I don't like:
1. If you connect a fuzz pedal to looper input 1, you can't program this switch to have for instance clean sound with reverb. It has fuzz sound and anything you want to add.
2. You can't program a sound to empty slot straight away. Lets say I have 5 pedals in inputs 1,2,3,4,5. To program a sound to button no.6 I have to use a patch cable to create a loop in loop 6.
3. When switching on a programmed switch (lets say you programmed no.1 swich to turn on OD with reverb and tremolo) all these loops light up (OD, reverb and tremolo). It can be confusing if you have not memorised what each button does. 


Sorry if my english is little bit sketchy, it's my second language.


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

Don't forget Road Rage Pro Gear is located right here in Canada.

If you want to save money you can buy the kit and build yourself. 

I know Nice Rack Canada uses these for all of the boards they build.

Link: http://www.roadrageprogear.com/


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

782369 said:


> Sorry if my english is little bit sketchy, it's my second language.


"teretulnud" to the GC forum!

Your English is perfect.

Enjoy!.... and continue to post often.

Cheers

Dave


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## 782369 (Aug 13, 2015)

greco said:


> "teretulnud" to the GC forum!
> 
> Your English is perfect.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I will.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Depending how big of a board you have a voodoo lab HEX may do it for you.


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## Guest (Aug 14, 2015)

There is all kinds. Moen makes a cheap one. Search The Gear Page and you will find a ton of them. The better ones cost between $600 and $1000.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Thanks guys, I knew I'd come to the right place. Here's an example of one of the songs we're going to cover. Click on "Waiting for my Heart to Fall". I'll be doing most of the guitar work so I'll need to go from clean with a hint of chorus, to a slightly hotter version for an intro solo, back to clean, to something pretty heavy for the chorus (add an OD), repeat for verse two, then go somewhat hot for solo part 1, then kick in the fuzz for solo part 2, then back to clean and finish with slightly hotter clean. Keep in mind I'm also doing most of the vocals, other than the chorus, and I've got a lot going on 

http://www.airplaydirect.com/music/nimmobrothers/

A multi FX with patches would be ideal I suppose but I'd like to achieve the same with my pedal board. I'm guessing programmable is the way to go. The decibel stuff looks great but I break out into a sweat when I read "midi"


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Decibel's stuff supports MIDI for sure, and that's a major reason why I went with it. BUT...you don't have to use it. The Switch Dr. is still a really decently-priced programmable pedal switch (which can also change your amp channels, switch on reverb etc) even if you don't use MIDI at all.

Having said that, I'm not a MIDI expert by any means and I found the Switch Dr. pretty easy to program. I've used the Voodoo Labs GCX/GP system as well as Disaster Area's DMC Midi switches and the Decibel 11 is at least as easy, if not easier to use, then those products.


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## jlagore (Feb 23, 2006)

Over the last few years the options in this area have exploded. So good to see!

My favourite is the Musicomlab MKIII+. 8 pedal loops, insert for volume/other things, buffered, good midi capabilities, and two jacks for amp channel switching/reverbs/whatnots. I think there's also a newer version (The MKIV), as well as a "Lite" version now. They are pricey, but definitely in the upper echelon. 

I've also heard great reports of the RJM PBC, as well as the Disaster Area DPC-5 and 8EZ. The DPC-8EZ being a bit cheaper, but still super functional with 8 loops. 

Midi used to be terrifying for a lot of people, but there are awesome videos demonstrating exactly what to do to achieve almost anything these days! Embrace the dark side! It can open up a ton of options for advanced switching systems.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Player99 said:


> There is all kinds. Moen makes a cheap one. Search The Gear Page and you will find a ton of them. The better ones cost between $600 and $1000.



This one does look interesting, especially if I can find one used for a good price.

http://www.moenfx.com/gec8_live.html


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Well dammit, why isn't this guy in London? 

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-amp-pedal/ma...es/1093792752?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

i am not really getting what a switcher does..what the difference switching the pedal switches, or pushing the buttons on the switcher other then it being in front of you.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I want something that will turn on, or off, a group of pedals with one step. No more tap dancing.



Rick31797 said:


> i am not really getting what a switcher does..what the difference switching the pedal switches, or pushing the buttons on the switcher other then it being in front of you.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

davetcan said:


> I want something that will turn on, or off, a group of pedals with one step. No more tap dancing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3ZkGruegl4


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

Rick31797 said:


> i am not really getting what a switcher does..what the difference switching the pedal switches, or pushing the buttons on the switcher other then it being in front of you.


Also worth noting that a switcher means your signal bypasses pedals unless that loop is engaged, resulting in a shorter signal path and less negative impact on your base tone.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2015)

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/JOYO-PXL-PRO...5d61599&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=141663100451

Joyo makes a few with midi as well. ^(just an example, not recommending seller)


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2015)

Another low cost option:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/VITOOS-VLP8-...-Controller-32-Programmable-334-/221283300106

Vitoos VLP8 =$179


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Do any of the units noted here allow one to switch the serial order of pedals, or run things in parallel? Or do they all assume a fixed order, and each patch merely selects which of the 8 or more one wishes to include in that fixed order?


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Do any of the units noted here allow one to switch the serial order of pedals, or run things in parallel? Or do they all assume a fixed order, and each patch merely selects which of the 8 or more one wishes to include in that fixed order?



That's a good question Mark!

using this small board as an example










it's essentially just a bunch of different flavours of OD and an fx pedal that provides chorus, delay, and reverb. I have the Pony boy set up as a "foundation" pedal and it would be on most of the time, as would the CDR. I have the Klone set up as a boost and then right to left is light OD, medium, and heavy, or as heavy as I get anyway. The fuzz is first in the chain after the tuner. So if we number them in sequence, starting with the fuzz (leaving the tuner out of the equation, we'd have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.

I'd expect the programmable switcher to give me the following combinations by just stepping on 1 switch:

6 + 7
5 + 6 +7
4 + 6 +7
3 + 6 +7
2 + 6 +7
1 + 6 +7
2 + 3 + 6 + 7
2 + 4 + 6 + 7
2 + 5 + 6 + 7

That may be asking too much  In reality I can easily get rid of one or two of the OD's . I get the sense that the Octa-Switch can probably do this and maybe some of the others that allow storage of banks and presets. 

In this scenario a series set up is all I'd need but I could see an advantage to being able to change sequence in some cases.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The "classic" order flips generally involve distortions. So a filter effect (wah, autowah), a modulation effect (phaser, vibe), or level-shifting effect (tremolo, volume pedal), can be useful both before or after a distortion unit. Order flipping is useful for those sorts of scenarios.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

If I gigged, I'd be tempted to get one.

But they all seem to have a variety of ways of operating, so check that carefully--as was asked above--parallel? series? order?

All good things to consider--as well this could add to the length of cable needed.


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## Guest (Aug 15, 2015)

mhammer said:


> Do any of the units noted here allow one to switch the serial order of pedals, or run things in parallel? Or do they all assume a fixed order, and each patch merely selects which of the 8 or more one wishes to include in that fixed order?


The new Boss ES-8 does allow for complete order change on all 8. I am not sure if the RJM or others in that league do as well.


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## exhausted (Feb 10, 2006)

Player99 said:


> The new Boss ES-8 does allow for complete order change on all 8. I am not sure if the RJM or others in that league do as well.


The ES8 and the Switchblade 8F are the only ones that I'm aware of. The ES8 is going to be a massive hit for Boss.

The decibel eleven pedal palette does some limited series/parallel and ordering switching stuff.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Trying to work a deal for that Moen GEC-9 on Kijiji. It will be a pretty inexpensive way to see if these things will work for me.


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2015)

The issue I have of them is what happens if you are on a patch and want to add your delay? Can you do that? I am not sure that many of them allow you to manually add your "off" pedals into an existing patch on the fly (easily). I think there is one made in the UK that I have seen will do that. I forget the brand now, but when I did the USD to CAD $ conversion plus shipping and HST is would come in around $1800 CAD.

Does anyone know of any units that will do what I am asking? Let you add the "off" pedals on the fly while in a patch and playing a song live on stage?

Edit: Here is the one that is about $1800:
http://www.thegigrig.com/acatalog/G2.html#SID=13


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm not sure. My assumption was that all pedals are always "on" and switched in or out through the switcher.



Player99 said:


> The issue I have of them is what happens if you are on a patch and want to add your delay? Can you do that? I am not sure that many of them allow you to manually add your "off" pedals into an existing patch on the fly (easily). I think there is one made in the UK that I have seen will do that. I forget the brand now, but when I did the USD to CAD $ conversion plus shipping and HST is would come in around $1800 CAD.
> 
> Does anyone know of any units that will do what I am asking? Let you add the "off" pedals on the fly while in a patch and playing a song live on stage?
> 
> ...


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2015)

davetcan said:


> I'm not sure. My assumption was that all pedals are always "on" and switched in or out through the switcher.


Yes they are always on. But I am asking about turning on loops (pedals) with the switcher that are not programed into the current patch. If you can only access pedals through patches but not manually add them on the fly I can't see using it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Player99 said:


> The issue I have of them is what happens if you are on a patch and want to add your delay? Can you do that? I am not sure that many of them allow you to manually add your "off" pedals into an existing patch on the fly (easily). ...
> 
> Does anyone know of any units that will do what I am asking? Let you add the "off" pedals on the fly while in a patch and playing a song live on stage?


Well, in a sense, they can _*all*_ do that...assuming that you either a) plan to add delay at the end of the chain as a separate pedal, independently stompable, or b) are willing to program two versions of the same patch: one without the added pedal, and one with.

But I gather you're thinking in terms of impromptu patches, where the notion hits you to add just one more to the combination. And that's probably where the idea of programmability comes into conflict with improvisational and creative use of FX.

As always, I'll put in a plug for adapting e-switched pedals (Boss, Digitech, et al.) for easy remote switching via a bank of momentary switches. If you can pop a smal inconspicuous hole in the side of a pedal, and have the room for installing a mini phone jack, just about any pedal that uses electronic switching can be remotely switched. There's no reason why a person couldn't use a "Road Rage" type chassis, and allocate some of the switches for true-bypass, and others for momentary.

[video=youtube;xszB3pAGrdw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xszB3pAGrdw[/video]


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

The "open loop" feature on the GEC 9 might give you what you're looking for. 

[video=youtube;KuI1SFjT7uk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuI1SFjT7uk[/video]


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2015)

No I would want to be able to turn any of my effects on regardless of the preset. 

I saw someone using the GigRig 2 on YouTube and they seemed to be able to do just what I am describing. That way you can have the best of both worlds. I would not want to be limited by a preset as to what pedals I can turn on, but I would like the advantage of the presets...


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## Guest (Aug 16, 2015)

It has a stompbox mode that lets you do exactly what I am describing in the presets you save as presets with stompbox mode enabled. Too bad it costs $1,800 all in...

[video=youtube;QPH4nicvMQw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPH4nicvMQw[/video]


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

How about a Disaster Area DP-5 looper/switcher? 5 Loops, can control midi controlled devices (I control a Line 6 M9 and Timefactor outside of the 5 loops). Has a seperate TRS control for an amps trem or reverb, and you can set it to change presets and there's a mode for instant access, so you can switch effects in/out manually. I'm actually considering selling mine just because I'm under utilizing it.


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## Guest (Aug 17, 2015)

Voxguy76 said:


> How about a Disaster Area DP-5 looper/switcher? 5 Loops, can control midi controlled devices (I control a Line 6 M9 and Timefactor outside of the 5 loops). Has a seperate TRS control for an amps trem or reverb, and you can set it to change presets and there's a mode for instant access, so you can switch effects in/out manually. I'm actually considering selling mine just because I'm under utilizing it.


Not enough loops for me... How much is it out of curiosity?


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## pat6969 (Feb 4, 2013)

Check these out. I used to use one and they are a great looper. 2 sets of 4 loops so you can use pedals out front and in the effects loop at the same time. They also make a midi version.

http://temp.musicexpresscanada.com/product/wave-x-pxl-pro/


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

The GEC 9 arrived from the Toronto Kijiji guy today. Another great Kijiji experience actually. Being something of a Luddite it's going to take me awhile to figure this out, and it's supposedly one of the easy ones, LOL.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Actually I may have to take that statement back  A bunch of folks, including Moen, have put pictorial reps of how to connect different configurations, such as this:




















That concept is perfect for me. Should reduce the learning curve considerably.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

This will be the starting point. I have to wait a few days for the cables though, the guy who sold me the switcher threw in a bunch of cables but shipped separately via snail mail. I might have them by the end of the week though. I'm already anticipating adding another MS 70 CDR in place of the chorus, it will give me many more options and I love the one I have already.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

davetcan said:


> This will be the starting point. I have to wait a few days for the cables though, the guy who sold me the switcher threw in a bunch of cables but shipped separately via snail mail. I might have them by the end of the week though. I'm already anticipating adding another MS 70 CDR in place of the chorus, it will give me many more options and I love the one I have already.


Awesome! Hope you enjoy your new toy!


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Right on Dave, that looked like a user friendly unit in the demos.

Bonus points for the Dilbert tin. 8)


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I saw Scott Adams at a conference a few years ago, he is an extremely funny guy and I swear to God someone who worked for our company was feeding him stories.

Being the impatient type I grabbed whatever cables I could find last night and attempted to set this thing up. It took me all of 5 minutes, and then another 5 to figure out what I'd done wrong  I may try to make a video later today, VERY short, this thing is awesome. Big plus that I can power it from the Pedal Power 2+. It is Sooooo easy to program.



sulphur said:


> Right on Dave, that looked like a user friendly unit in the demos.
> 
> Bonus points for the Dilbert tin. 8)


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Excuse the playing, I always freeze without the band around me  This was all through the Budda and Boogie cab I have for sale (spam alert). Guitar was my MIJ Tokai LP, in keeping with the "what should an LP sound like" thread 

Crappy camera mic but what can you do, sounded much better in the room of course. The intent here was to show how easily this was to set up and how convenient it is to use.

[video=youtube;BPgkaehGG34]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPgkaehGG34[/video]


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