# [email protected]#$% Blackberry Users!!!



## Guest (Jan 16, 2009)

Argh! I just got a call from the wife: she and the baby were rear ended at a stop sign by a driver who...wait for it...WAS EMAILING ON HER BLACKBERRY! She didn't see the stop sign and ran her vehicle right underneath ours.

No kidding. When my wife got out to talk to her she _WAS STILL ON IT EMAILING_! She never stopped! Just looked up with with an "Oh Shit" expression and kept on typing! She snapped a few cell phone pics of the woman typing away with the nose of her car firmly underneath our SUV to get her attention.

No injuries but man that pisses me off. There's been so many collisons here with the cold snap that the cops didn't even care to show up. No injuries? Don't call us...call insurance. ARGH!


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

One of the happiest days of my life was when I left my last job and got to turn in my BlackBerry. I hated that mother$%&^@#$ thing. Constant frigging emails. There is absulutely no way I would ever own one for personal use. There is NO NEED for anyone to be that "connected" in everyday life. 

We now operate a tanning salon and I kid you not... there are people that actually talk on their cell phones while they are "in the bed tanning". I am sure there are some that are banging away at the tiny keyboard too. There is simply no need for it. It's no bloody wonder that Rogers and the like are some of the richest companies on earth.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> One of the happiest days of my life was when I left my last job and got to turn in my BlackBerry. I hated that mother$%&^@#$ thing. Constant frigging emails. There is absulutely no way I would ever own one for personal use. There is NO NEED for anyone to be that "connected" in everyday life.
> 
> We now operate a tanning salon and I kid you not... there are people that actually talk on their cell phones while they are "in the bed tanning". I am sure there are some that are banging away at the tiny keyboard too. There is simply no need for it. It's no bloody wonder that Rogers and the like are some of the richest companies on earth.


Unless you have unlimited texting! http://www.sync-blog.com/sync/2009/01/kid-sends-14528.html

The younger folks whowork with me are constantly texting. I don't get it. 

But then who am I to talk though as I lurk around here.

BTW, Ian glad to hear all is well.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Ian...thank goodness there are no injuries. 

This woman has huge problems...she certainly needs to undertake a massive readjustment of her priorities in life (among many other things)....before she injures someone (including herself, obviously) 

All the best...given the circumstances.

Dave


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Hope your wife is all right. You have to post the pics of this woman emailing while the nose of her car is under your cars rear. end. She could be up for stupidest driver of the year award.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

*Blackberry*

Untill the governement steps up and outlaws these devices when driving it sucks.I am greatfull that the Quebec Gov. has outlawed these when driving and hopefully Ontario and the rest will follow.Some people dont know what it takes to be in control of a two ton car and add to that chatting away on the phone or whatever.Sorry about your wifes accident.Hope that the other driver gets charged.No one hurt but,a royal pain to get the car fixed.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

marcos said:


> Untill the governement steps up and outlaws these devices when driving it sucks.I am greatfull that the Quebec Gov. has outlawed these when driving and hopefully Ontario and the rest will follow.Some people dont know what it takes to be in control of a two ton car and add to that chatting away on the phone or whatever.Sorry about your wifes accident.Hope that the other driver gets charged.No one hurt but,a royal pain to get the car fixed.


Ontario outlawed using them while driving this past summer along with garden variety cell phones.

Common sense is a valuable characteristic.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Argh! I just got a call from the wife: she and the baby were rear ended at a stop sign by a driver who...wait for it...WAS EMAILING ON HER BLACKBERRY! She didn't see the stop sign and ran her vehicle right underneath ours.
> 
> No kidding. When my wife got out to talk to her she _WAS STILL ON IT EMAILING_! She never stopped! Just looked up with with an "Oh Shit" expression and kept on typing! She snapped a few cell phone pics of the woman typing away with the nose of her car firmly underneath our SUV to get her attention.
> 
> No injuries but man that pisses me off. There's been so many collisons here with the cold snap that the cops didn't even care to show up. No injuries? Don't call us...call insurance. ARGH!


Same thing hapened to me about a year ago. The feather head drove her nice Camry right under the a$$ end of my Astro van while I was sitting at a red light. I guess she didn't see the tractor trailer right in front of me. She didn't even touch her brakes.

Texting while driving is among the STUpidest activities I have ever seen, and sadly I see it all too often. Tell your missus to hang on to those pictures. Glad she wasn't hurt.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

*Blackberry*

Did not realised that Ontario had outlawed them.Is the law in effect?I am in Ottawa a lot and I still see a ton of people on the phone.Could they be breaking the law.kkjuwkkjuwkkjuw


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Ontario outlawed using them while driving this past summer along with garden variety cell phones.
> 
> Common sense is a valuable characteristic.


I don't know if that is the case. they tabled a bill proposing a ban in October, but I can't find anywhere if it passed. My husband seems to think it came into effect on Jan 1st.

http://www.allbusiness.com/insurance/insurance-associations/11733998-1.html


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

There was a guy on the news the other day from the Automobile Assn, they really want to put a stop to it somehow.

He told of one guy he saw that actually had velcro mounted on his steering wheel airbag to hold his Blackberry.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Having met them in person, I am perhaps a little gladder than many here that your wife and son are okay (though obviously not as glad as you).

There are five things in life that I eschew:

a) Clothing with names on it - if you want me advertise something for you, YOU pay ME, I don't pay YOU.

b) Cellphones - A toy invented for adolescents and real-estate agents whose principal use, as near as I can tell, is to ask "So where are you now?", to take embarrassing pictures of people, and to relentlessly check for e-mail while incurring finger-joint damage. A real phone weighs a few pounds, is made of bakelite, and has a curly cord. It comes with a number that can be found in a telephone book, and the number is associated with a place, not a person. If I am not IN that place at the moment, then I guess you'll just have to be patient, and perhaps leave a message.

c) A remote anything, whether pager, Blackberry, Palm Pilot, I-phone, or anything else that presumes I should be somewhere other than where I am right now, and encourages my impatience and that of others.

d) GPS guidance - nothing wrong with a map and learning your way around places. No driver should find themselves in a position where a ghost voice tells them "Take four squares of bathroom tissue, fold it over, reach around behind yourself until you find your rectum, now rub until you feel paper against bare skin".

e) Call waiting - I don't know that any device has been invented for more rudeness, except for perhaps the middle finger. If you feel it important to speak to me, call back and see if its still busy. If I have any consideration at all, I won't tie up the phone. I should never find myself in the position of interrupting my present conversation to attend to another. It's right up there with standing in front of a sales clerk at the cash, goods in hand, while they pick up the phone and chat away with someone who called with some ungodly request in the middle of my transaction.

The sheer number of devices that encourage and even shame the consumer into thinking that they are wrong to fight becoming more impatient is remarkable. Cripes, even fishing, that most patient of past-times has succumbed to dreams of hyper-efficiency with devices intended to find and catch fish faster. You know what? The world does not revolve around 15 year-olds muttering "Are we there yet? When are we gonna be there? But I want it now!!". To think that the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, around the world are dependent on generating such devices, that encourage our collective impatience, disgusts me almost as much as the idea that some country wouldn't stop a child sex trade industry simply because they need the money.

Unless she's Jack Bauer or something, and desperately trying to stop the deaths of thousands, *NO* work-related matter is more important than the safety of your family. I hope the police and insurance bust this lady but good.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

take a look at the new movie "7 Lbs"

an interesting dramatization on the hazards of texting while driving.

...I hate crackberry's.....but I'm forced to have one for work


and - well, they present a whole pile of revenue and share price performance for the company I work for....so it's a love / hate relationship.....but alas the device is not at fault......workstyles and society is.........I personally find it peculiar that an individual would want to be that connected.....but speaking from a "work" user of crackberry - the expectation of instant replies to all forms of communications and constant availability has become the norm.

a sad reality.


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

as far as i know, it isn't yet illegal in ontario to text and drive, although there is legistlation pending that will make it so, and sooner than later. there's a flap going on in kitchener because a bus driver was texting and driving. i pretty much don't text for that same reason. i drive (city bus now, trucks before) for a living, and while i do think that makes me a better driver than most people, i don't think that means i'm good enough to drive blindfolded. if my cell rings while i'm driving, i do answer it though, i'll usually pull over and have a short talk, get back to people later. 

as for the evils of cellphones, i don't have a land line, i just use the cel, it's much easier. if i don't want to talk, i just don't answer it, or turn it off (seems a lot of people aren't aware of this feature on their phones, the new "power button" thing).


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

It has become evident that "Crackberry" addiction should be recognized as an official mental health disorder.


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2009)

Thanks for all the well wishes everyone. She and the baby are a-okay. And it sounds like the Civic slid neatly under our Pathfinder...but I'll let the insurance company take a look regardless.

And you bet those pictures will get posted!

Me, I'm a terrible cell phone owner. And it's good. I rarely answer the thing. It's usually on mute. I use it as an answering service -- check it once a day for messages and return the calls. And I'm a single task guy. I couldn't possibly feel comfortable driving and talking on a phone. Not even hands free.



mhammer said:


> I hope the police and insurance bust this lady but good.


I was shocked the police didn't want to come out and take a look. It happened out of the city, closer to Dunrobin, so maybe they just didn't want to do the drive? But they collision line told her if there was no visible damage and no injuries then call insurance. Which surprised me because how can someone who's never been in an accident (my wife) accurately assess damage. I'm mildly worried my exhaust system has been pushed in on itself if the Civic's front end was *under* our Pathfinder's bumper...

The other thing I'm concerned about now is that because no police officer came out to survey the accident the insurance company is going to treat it as a 50/50 situation. Ya know? Anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? What can I expect when I call the insurance company?

Edit: Oh this is funny if you're an Ottawian (or a Kanata-ite). I just to the insurance details for this lady from my wife and the address she gave us was, I kid you not:

Kanata Lakes, Kanata, ON

Yea: _she spelled out the name of her freaking subdivision on the piece of paper_ -- the one with the golf course and the million dollar homes in it. And the gates. Oh my, oh my. Doesn't that conjure up images of the person who hit her! I could _hear_ my wife laughing as she typed that email to me with the info.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Thanks for all the well wishes everyone. She and the baby are a-okay.


Ian, thats the main thing. I'm glad they are both okay.



iaresee said:


> I was shocked the police didn't want to come out and take a look.


This doesn't surpise me at all. The police are spread so thinly these days - I think it has to be a fatal accident before they'll even bother to come.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The challenge facing any social policy or legislation that attempts to declare some set of behaviours as impermissible is that the behaviour/s in question have to be clearly delineated. So, murder is wrong and we have laws against it. Couldn't I just murder someone a little bit? Well, no, you've either killed them or you haven't. Is it impermissible for me to kill someone under ANY circumstance? Well, not exactly. If they're trying to kill YOU and it's you or them, we'll understand if you kill them first...as long as it was a spur of the moment thing and not intended prior to when they tried to kill you.

When the behaviour itself is hard to delineate, or the reasons for making it impermissible, overlap substantially with the implications of other behaviour that IS permissible, we run into problems. Several years ago I had this same discussion with the dept of Justice. They were proposing legislation that would make it an offense to drive stoned on any of several illegal substances. At one level, that makes sense: keep impaired people off the road, and penalize those that insist on driving impaired. Seems like a logical extension of DUI legislation. Trouble was that it was restricted to only illicit substances, so it wasn't clear if it was an attempt to make the roads safer, or to simply have something else to arrest stoners for. Missing from the list of things you could be prosecuted for were driving while taking too much Nyquil or anti-histamines. So there was all this stuff that made the roads every bit as dangerous but was left undiscussed. Realistically, all that was needed was to extend or articulate the definition of "impaired driving" to include any demonstrable altered state, whether it involved legal or illegal substances. As far as I know, the proposed bill died on the table.

Similarly, you have to ask the question "Why make it illegal to text and drive, or cellphone and drive?" The answer is obvious: because it can dramatically reduce the amount of attention a driver pays to the road and make them a danger. But if the objective is to eliminate those things that detract from attention paid to the road, then why not make car radios illegal, or chatty spouses, or arguing children in the back seat, or dashboards with too many cool features, or...you get the picture. The fundamental question is "Why THIS, but not THAT?". 

Personally, I would rather see drivers with phones tucked in their neck or hand off the road, but there is a big difference between what irritates me (and many others) and what makes for viable legislation that can be applied fairly and/or enforced consistently. Any legislation that results in only very selective application is doomed to miss on public buy-in, and if you miss that (as happened with the gun registry), then the legislation doesn't end up with the intended social impact.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> It has become evident that "Crackberry" addiction should be recognized as an official mental health disorder.


I work with a guy who carries TWO Blackberrys AND a cellphone... I keep telling him he's got problems but he doesn't believe me. I can't stand talking to the guy because when we are in mid "conversation" he answers his texts and cellphone. Sometimes talking on one and texting on the other. There's never an "excuse me, but I really have to take this call..." he just switches gears as if the person in front of him is actually on call waiting. WTF? I just walk away most of the time. 

I unfortunately have to carry a blackberry for work but if I am talking to a real live person I say excuse me and interrupt our conversation only long enough to turn the damn blackberry off. People seem to appreciate that.


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

Glad to hear things are okay Ian. I'd really like to see those pictures. :smile: BTW mhammer, I'm in total agreement with everything you listed. Awhile back I was in a Subway sandwich shop on Queen Street in downtown Toronto and behind the counter on the wall they put up a sign reading, and I kid you not, "No cellphone use while ordering." Unfortunately people have become slaves to their gadgets and it's really gotten out of hand.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Glad everyone is okay!

Cell phones (and I have one) and 'berries are evil. I've never used it while driving, and won't, having seen what happens. Usually it's not turned on.

Years ago I had a job where I was issued a cellphone and the bosses were constantly on me for not answering it, but I kept reminding them that most of my work was on the road beyond the coverage (this was ten years ago in Huron and Bruce Counties). Truth was that when I cleaned out my office when I quit, the cellphone was still in its box in the closet where I put it the day it was issued. F!!!ing things drove me crazy then, as now.

You know, I teach private music lessons for a living, and I can't tell you the number of times some 12 year old's cell has rung and they've said "I gotta answer that". I respond with, "Answer that and the rest of your lesson will be on the curb.". Geez!

The f!!!ing cellphone not only creates accidents but destroys brain cells. I saw a guy walk into a hydro pole downtown while talking on one.

How I long for a simpler age.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Stratin2traynor said:


> I work with a guy who carries TWO Blackberrys AND a cellphone... I keep telling him he's got problems but he doesn't believe me. I can't stand talking to the guy because when we are in mid "conversation" he answers his texts and cellphone. Sometimes talking on one and texting on the other. There's never an "excuse me, but I really have to take this call..." he just switches gears as if the person in front of him is actually on call waiting. WTF? I just walk away most of the time.
> 
> I unfortunately have to carry a blackberry for work but if I am talking to a real live person I say excuse me and interrupt our conversation only long enough to turn the damn blackberry off. People seem to appreciate that.




I love the technology and if everyone did as you describe above people would find them much less obnoxious. I do the same and when meeting with anyone I turn the ringer off before starting.

It's standard corporate policy at most companies.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Mooh said:


> Truth was that when I cleaned out my office when I quit, the cellphone was still in its box in the closet where I put it the day it was issued.


I LOL'd when I read this.

I keep thinking that I should update my cell phone...mine is in a nice camo backpack and has an 8 foot flexible antenna. I think it uses 12ax7's

Dave


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I often accompany people to hospital as part of my work. I always turn it off when I enter the facility. Yesterday I took someone to the cancer centre at Sunnybrook. I heard at least two cell phones go off inside while we were in the waiting area. Damn! :sport-smiley-002:


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The right to decline a Blackberry should be right up there with the right to decline working on statutory/religious holidays, and the right to decline work/tasks you deem as dangerous.

One of the things that irritates me is that, as portable devices become more prevalent, and especially as phone service becomes more fragmented over providers, the opportunity to avail one's self of a payphone is becoming rarer and rarer. It's as if the service providers are saying "Well, why would you NEED a payphone? You've got one of our cellphones, don't you? Besides, why should we go to the trouble and risk of providing payphones? It detracts from our revenue."

Whether it's jewellery just sitting there with nobody watching, a carnal offer from a co-worker who promises not to tell, the last pogo dog that nobody else wants to eat, or technology that allows you to walk around perpetually plugged into your ear-clip telephone, just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean that you SHOULD do it. There is a reason why virtually every religion/cultural tradition tries to teach self-restraint.


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

Ian, I'm glad the missus and your baby are OK.....keep an eye on the little one as to any potential head injury as they are very susceptable........I would definitely get some quick advice..........you just had an accident as far as your insurance is concerned and quite possibly your rates may go up.............by the way, your wifes camera phone will have a date and time, which would mean potentially the phone could confirm that the a-hole who struck your vehicle was on theirs...............all texts and calls are recorded by time.........another thought.........can you say cash settlement........lol.......all the best
Gerry


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## Guest (Jan 16, 2009)

Just got off the phone with insurance company. Very nice folks. First words out of their mouth were, "Is everyone okay?". They said it'd be 0% fault for us because she was stopped at a stop sign and rear ended. And RIFF WRATH: they asked that we see a doctor just in case -- same reasoning that whiplash or a concussion due to a head jolt can be hard to detect -- so the wife and kid are headed to the clinic for a checkup now. The insurance is even covering a new baby car seat, which they recommended replacing out of precaution.

I asked my wife if she looked at the pics and she says they're pretty blurry. She was shaking pretty hard when she took them. The cold and the adrenaline were not helping steady her hand no doubt. I haven't seen them yet myself. Being a half-assed cell phone user I don't go in for all that "sending texts with pictures to each other" type of stuff.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2009)

The pictures (there's only two) are monumentally bad guys. Sorry.

What a long night. The adjuster on my case asked me to call this girl to get her insurance provider and policy number. Girl refers me to her mother. Mother tells me to go f--- myself.

How nice.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

What a class act.Like mother, like daughter.I would call the cops now and tell them to take action on your behalf.















iaresee said:


> The pictures (there's only two) are monumentally bad guys. Sorry.
> 
> What a long night. The adjuster on my case asked me to call this girl to get her insurance provider and policy number. Girl refers me to her mother. Mother tells me to go f--- myself.
> 
> How nice.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

iaresee said:


> What a long night. The adjuster on my case asked me to call this girl to get her insurance provider and policy number. Girl refers me to her mother. Mother tells me to go f--- myself.


Yeah, Kanata Lakes - they're all class ! 

Call the insurance adjuster back, tell themwhat happened and let them deal with it. Unfortunately I dont think you'll get any help whatsoever from the cops. In my experience, they refuse to get involved.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Time to get the police involved and hopefully the pics of the girl are good enough for them . A rear ender like that would have been an automatic careless driving charge for that girl and maybe more with her using the BB .

Friggin BS and I just read an artical recently where car makers will be introducing cars in the next year or 2 completely equipped with on board computer , fax and all the equipment needed to have a rolling office .


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

*blackberry*

Wow,that will make it interresting to drive.These morons(and i am being polite) that design and sell these options dont care about careless usage of these cell phones,they only care about getting them out on there vehicles before the other co. does it.Its a shame that we are not able to put a stop to this nonsense and get them to build better and safer cars.I for one do not care for this and will not be buying a car with this equip.Then its up to the gov.to step in and stop it.








nitehawk55 said:


> Time to get the police involved and hopefully the pics of the girl are good enough for them . A rear ender like that would have been an automatic careless driving charge for that girl and maybe more with her using the BB .
> 
> Friggin BS and I just read an artical recently where car makers will be introducing cars in the next year or 2 completely equipped with on board computer , fax and all the equipment needed to have a rolling office .


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

*Document Everything !!!*


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2009)

Thanks for the support guys. Just nice to have a place to vent!

The adjuster was sort of weird. He said they're doing an insurance search using the plate number, but was kind...odd...as if it might not help him get in touch with the other company. Maybe it's a CYA thing on his part.

I did call the police and while they thought photos were amusing, they were pretty much not helpful. No injuries, no charges was what the officer who answered the phone told me. It's impossible to see her face in the photo, let alone that it's a phone in her hand and not just a blur of black and flesh tone I'm afraid. I was really surprised they didn't send an officer out to begin with being that it was: a) a rear end collision at a stop sign; and b) my wife mentioned the cell phone. You always think Laws are really definite and that the system works a really rigid way, until you get in it through an accident like this and you find out it's all very vague and really there are more important things the People In Charge would rather be doing.

Out of curiosity: has anyone had someone refuse to give insurance information like this before? I figured the insurance company could talk to the DMV and they'd tell them the policy for the car based on the plate number -- I know whenever I renew my plates the machine asks for all that information from me. And I'm fairly certain we all have to carry at least liability insurance, right? It's very strange.

Time for a nice single malt I think. It's been a long day. :rockon2:


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

If your wife did not get the insurance info at the time of the accident and you have no witnesses to assist you it may make your claim come back on you . It is possable these people do not have insurance and you will be up the creek pretty much . Just the reaction from the mother and how this girl acted at the time of the collision would have had me very concerned . 

We are living in the age of irresponcablity , ignorance and "we don't care"

Better make it a few malts .


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2009)

nitehawk55 said:


> If your wife did not get the insurance info at the time of the accident and you have no witnesses to assist you it may make your claim come back on you . It is possable these people do not have insurance and you will be up the creek pretty much . Just the reaction from the mother and how this girl acted at the time of the collision would have had me very concerned .
> 
> We are living in the age of irresponcablity , ignorance and "we don't care"
> 
> Better make it a few malts .


So worst-case I know I'm out my deductible. That much I confirmed with my insurance company. If they can't track down their insurance company I have to pony up the $300. So the worst-case scenario, for me, really isn't that bad. However, if they _aren't_ carrying insurance (and I'm with you that it kind of smells like they're either uninsured or trying to keep this from getting to their insurance company) isn't that a felony? Shouldn't they be charged? I thought we were required to carry insurance in this province?

Edit: IBC says yup, you need liability insurance. And from this government doc on insurance requirements in Ontario it says fines if you're caught driving without insurance start at $5k and go to $50k and if you're found at fault for an accident and you're insurance-free you're personally liable for the losses. Sounds like I call the lawyer...which is cool 'cause he's got a killer single malt collection.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

iaresee said:


> I did call the police and while they thought photos were amusing, they were pretty much not helpful. No injuries, no charges was what the officer who answered the phone told me.... I was really surprised they didn't send an officer out to begin with being that it was: a) a rear end collision at a stop sign; and b) my wife mentioned the cell phone.


It may be that you didn't see it because you live out near where you work, but the route to downtown was strewn with car corpses. Trust me, the cops had their hands full with vehicles that were far worse than rear-ended. They were everywhere. Consider as well that there were all sorts of cold-related incidents not involving cars, like fires caused by activities intended to be warm, and folks with heart conditions dropping outside. All of those things requires cops on site. So, while they probably would have normally come to your wife's aid, they've been stretched thin the last few days. Blame it on the mayor or the bus drivers or the gods that make those cold fronts; your choice.

I know that what makes tires "winter" tires is the grade of rubber used; a grade that stays pliable under lower temperatures. But surely there are limits to that pliability and at a certain point, rubber gets rigid and the difference between summer and winter tires disappears. My gut sense is that during the last two days, we dipped below that critical temperature, and there were a great number of folks whose driving behaviour continued as if the degree of grip and rubber pliability had not changed one iota. That is, they were driving as fast as they might be safely able to at -15 or even -20, but NOT at -30.

A great many of these incidents involve SUVs (although it was clearly NOT an SUV that slammed into the back of Ian's SUV). There are all manner of stereotypes of SUV owners, but my sense is that vehicles where the driver sits higher up tend to alter one's sense of speed, such that even careful drivers can get sucker-punched under weather conditions like this. I know on those occasions where I had rented a van, and been seated up higher than my normally small sensible family car, I would frequently look down at the speedometer and wonder just how the heck I was going that fast. Trust me, I'm the guy you're usually passing because I'm going too slow, so when I'm surprised by how much speed I've picked up, that's saying something.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Well , I hope it all works out OK for you . I don't have much faith in the system (law) , insurance companies or people anymore . 
Be nice if things were still simple and people honest , wouldn't it ?


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## Andy (Sep 23, 2007)

What a waste of flesh. Her license should be suspended for at least a year.

Good to hear that your wife and child are okay, though -- that's the most important thing.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Robert1950 said:


> *Document Everything !!!*


This is the best advice. Include as much detail as you can (accurate times of calls, etc)

You might want to make those malts with added ingredients for medicinal purposes.

Cheers...in the real sense of the word.

Dave


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

There can be delayed effects from these types of accidents. My daughter got rear ended last week. Very minor fender bender. A few days later she woke up with whiplash.


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## rebeldog (Dec 24, 2008)

I'll bet dollars to donuts she was driving a mercedes or a beemer and really didn't give a crap


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2009)

rebeldog said:


> I'll bet dollars to donuts she was driving a mercedes or a beemer and really didn't give a crap


Hehe. That was my guess too but no, my wife said it was a beater Civic. Really old. So my guess is the teenager has done this before and no she gets to drive the scrap 'cause after a while she turns them into that...


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Whoops , double posted kqoct


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

So....your wife didn't ask for any insurance info ?? I know with the conditions and her having the baby and all that would have been a hassel right at that time but I'm hoping I'm wrong in thinking no insurance . People can have it when they get their plates or even use their expired policy # and the like because you don't have to show your insurance slip at the Lic. office . 

Geez.....I hope it works out OK without the insurance company jacking your rates . 

I was rear ended by a young fellow years ago and the damage to my rear bumper assy was $600 to replace and paint the rubber panal that went over the bumper . Got all the insurance info from the kid and all was OK but it still came down to me making a claim and because we have "no fault " insurance it was still a fricking strike against me......I used up my one freebee or what they call forgiven accident because of that . I'm with Allstate BTW , but they are all blood sucking bandits . When my wife was in an accident a couple years later and totalled the car they put it to me rate wise and in that one no one was considered at fault either . It's a F%#$-up system


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I got hit about 8 years ago in downtown Toronto. I think it was the coldest night in history. We were on our way to a Beck concert. Ended up having to go to one of those accident reporting centers. What a nightmare. It's a bit confusing on the no fault insurance thing. If it is a fender bender thing where there was essentially no law broken it's no fault. But last week my daughters car was totalled by some fool in the middle of the night. She had it parked on the road overnight at her boyfriends. Someone hit her so hard it moved the car about 20 feet. When she called me to go down there I thought to myself "this is someone that lives around here". So I trolled the hood and sure enough, there was a car sitting in someones driveway that had the hood wrapped up around the windshield. I arrived at the scene and there were three numbers imprinted on the back of my daughters car from the other licence plate. They matched. I sent the cops down there and they charged a 31 year old female with reckless driving. She claimed she had gotten into a fight with her boyfriend and took off somewhere. Slipped on ice (there was no ice) and slammed into my daughters car. Both cars are destroyed. I have no idea how she drove hers back home. But her insurance covered everything.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

She must have really hit your daugters car !! I'll bet in her anger she was trying to do injure herself or worse out of spite and stupidity . Some people should not be behind the wheel of a vehical......period !! :sport-smiley-002:


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2009)

nitehawk55 said:


> So....your wife didn't ask for any insurance info ??


She did. She just let the kid get away with saying "I don't know where it is" -- her first accident and she wasn't sure how hard she should press the kid (apparently the kid was balling...go figure). She did write down our information on a piece of paper for the kid and gave that to _her_.

So an update is worthwhile: I got a vmail from the mother this morning. And she basically said she was sorry and that she was trying to keep it out of the insurance system and could I just give her a quote and she'll pay it out of pocket. And that's why she wouldn't tell me anything on the phone on Friday night. Meh.

I've already started a claim with my insurance company. I'm going to leave it with the adjuster to sort out. He gets paid to do that. I just get a headache. :smile:



> Geez.....I hope it works out OK without the insurance company jacking your rates.


0% fault assigned to my wife because she was stopped at a stop sign and rear ended so there's no rate change for us. Worst case we have to pay our deductible but if they can get the other driver's insurance information (assuming at this point she's actually _insured_) then the other insurance company pays the deductible.



> I was rear ended by a young fellow years ago and the damage to my rear bumper assy was $600 to replace and paint the rubber panal that went over the bumper . Got all the insurance info from the kid and all was OK but it still came down to me making a claim and because we have "no fault " insurance it was still a fricking strike against me......I used up my one freebee or what they call forgiven accident because of that . I'm with Allstate BTW , but they are all blood sucking bandits . When my wife was in an accident a couple years later and totalled the car they put it to me rate wise and in that one no one was considered at fault either . It's a F%#$-up system


Might be this is my freebie for a rate change. I don't think so though. I'll have to check. The damage is pretty light. A dent in the bumper and the bumper and the rear quarter panel no longer line up. I suspect it'll be <$1000 but what do I know? I'll find out Monday. I'm with Meloche Monnex on the PEO plan and I've been pretty happy with their service to-date. When we got broken in to a few years back there was no rate hike and that was a pretty big claim (bikes, computers, CDs, etc.).


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

iaresee said:


> So an update is worthwhile: I got a vmail from the mother this morning. And she basically said she was sorry and that she was trying to keep it out of the insurance system and could I just give her a quote and she'll pay it out of pocket. And that's why she wouldn't tell me anything on the phone on Friday night. Meh.
> 
> I've already started a claim with my insurance company. I'm going to leave it with the adjuster to sort out. He gets paid to do that. I just get a headache. :smile:


Good plan. I'd be wary of this woman - she already told you to "go F*** yourself" on the phone. I'd say shes already shown shes not an upstanding citizen - you gave her a chance to play nice. Take it through your insurance company and save yourself a lot of grief.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I agree with Bagpipe. She had her chance. She decided to play nasty. So go for the legal jugular. :sport-smiley-002:


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Most times the promise to pay out of pocket never happens . I agree , she didn't want to play nice , sooooooo................kkjuw
Telling people to F#%!!off can sometimes bite you in the AZZ !!!


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Always take the legal route, imho.

25 years ago my Volvo was hit by a Comet in a public parking lot in downtown Stratford. A beat cop walked up and oversaw the exchange of insurance information between us, took notes and promised to do any follow-up required. I held him to his promise when I couldn't find the guy who hit me. The cop was all over the case, but to no avail. When the guilty party was finally found, he was serving time for car theft (the Comet), and other offenses. All the information he has given the cop was false or forged. My loss.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2009)

Mooh said:


> Always take the legal route, imho.


So this question came up this weekend: is it actually illegal to not use insurance? None of us having the discussion were certain. It certainly feels shady, but is it illegal. I definitely don't know.

So the good news is she backed down and called my adjuster with her information. And thank god...the estimate from the repair shop is just a shade under $2k and they think it'll be more once they get the bumper off. It's been shifted over a cm or so so all the brackets have to get replaced, reinforcement bar, shock absorbing foam, plus a new plastic bumper cover. And then the spare under the truck might be damaged and the exhaust system.

Ugh.

Anyway you slice it I'd rather have the insurance company deal with the bills.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

My wife and I were watching a CBC show the other night that was investigating this place: http://www.carfax.com and whether their automobile histories supplied to prospective buyers were accurate. The forensic experts they had examining the cars found what to them were obvious indications of structural damage, but it was often absent from the Carfax report.

Seems to me that such omissions can very easily happen when people try to deal with accident claims under the table so that nothing shows up on the insurance.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

mhammer said:


> My wife and I were watching a CBC show the other night that was investigating this place: http://www.carfax.com and whether their automobile histories supplied to prospective buyers were accurate. The forensic experts they had examining the cars found what to them were obvious indications of structural damage, but it was often absent from the Carfax report.
> 
> Seems to me that such omissions can very easily happen when people try to deal with accident claims under the table so that nothing shows up on the insurance.


I think that is the case if it does not go through insurance as they tag the car in the system that it has been damaged and that is supposed to be shown to any future buyers. 

iaresee..More damage then you thought ? .....that is no surprise with the vehicals of today as the substructure is usually damaged as much or more that what you see on the surface . In a lot of cases now vehicals are wrote off as totalled with what only appears to be minor damage .


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2009)

You guys want to hear funny? The woman left a vmail for me at the office today and I called her back and got her voicemail -- guess where she works?


























RCMP. Public Relations Department.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

NO SH#$!!......unbelievable !! You know , if the wrong person in her dept found out about the way she has acted I'm guessing she could get some heat . They have a pretty strict code of conduct .


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## Tybone (Feb 12, 2006)

Thank goodness there are no serious injuries. I suggest you sue that the guilty parties ass off..... but I digress. My main thoughts are.

1) Blackberry, cell phone, other crashes, shiny beads some (stupid) people will get distracted by anything. Keep you eyes on the road.

2) Regarding Blackberry you can chose not to look at it if you want to. All you have to do is not look at it. (see zero inbox). But I think that's another thread.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Other than his ears, we finally got something on Obama. He's a crackberry addict. Even Michelle has had to rap his knuckles over that thing.


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

*Blackberries*

I have a blackberry. Company issue. I hate it and how invasive it is to my personal time. I am in a high stress, performance based, commission payed sales job. I wish I never got into this. I am 15 years in my related industry and am near the top of the pay scale. I make a damn great living but hate being slave to my job and especially the blackberry. I try to limit it's use but it is almost impossible. Vacation time is stressful even with this crackberry thing. I try to leave it off however if I don't respond to my customers, I don't get paid. The company I work for has set up a type of pay scale where I literally need to be running off my feet 12hrs a day. They still want more. I am tired of it, and am considering leaving. I am even considering taking 2 years off to go back to school. 15 years, hard to start over, but the stress is going to kill me and ruin my family life. This is the world we live in today. Deep profits and shallow relationships. I have learned about greedy companies in the 21st century. Blackberries are part of the problem.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I was offered one, but declined. I was more or less offered manager work, but declined. It's just not proper work for a grownup to be doing. I'm willing to take the financial penalty to not have my growth and contribution as a human being stunted.

Keep in mind that most of what you see around you, skyscrapers, moon landings, empires, the Great Wall of China, everything Fender, Gretsch and Gibson ever made, cable TV, was done without benefit of Blackberries or cell phones. We don't need that crap. We're smarter than that.

A few years ago, when everyone around me was nuts about the "work-life balance thing", I was asked to review a book on the topic for an on-line journal. There were some good ideas in the book that you might like. http://www.innovation.cc/book-reviews/beyond-workfamily-balance.pdf

Sounds to me like your company is not particularly viable over the long haul if they require that sort of 24/7 responsiveness to clients to stay afloat. It IS possible to build empires where people go home at 5PM and get to chat about what they did over the weekend. T'wer I, I'd run while I still had the chance.


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## martyb1 (Aug 5, 2007)

The way I look at it a Blackberry is a tool,nothing more.Like any tool,be it a hammer,a cell phone or even a gun,it comes down to the end user to have the common sense and responsibility to use it correctly and safely.As simple as that is,there is always people that abuse them.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Yes, it IS a tool, but it is also the poster child for an ever-growing culture of impatience.

A few years ago, I was listening to a show on CBC radio reflecting on the settlement of the prairie provinces. In the late 1800's parents would send a 16 or 17 year-old from somewhere in rural England or Scotland on a boat to Canada with $100 or something like that. The kid would get a train out to Saskatchewan and scout for suitable arable land for the family to homestead on. The money was for the payment to secure the land. The kid would be gone for a half year, and the family basically expected maybe 2 or 3 letters during that time, one of which would direct them to where they should move to in order to hook up with their son and start the farm. The biggest decision of their lives and they waited months without any word.

And now we can't wait 5 minutes for trivial decisions about issues that don't matter from people who don't matter. Gimme a break.

Cellphones, hi-speed internet, break-neck speed CPUs, Blackberries, microwave ovens, and vehicles with instant acceleration are all part of a culture that wants everything NOW! When we lived in Victoria, I became acquainted with the peacocks roaming around Beacon Hill Park. They look fabulous and impressive, but they are basically an extremely stupid and poorly adapted bird. When they vocalize, it sounds for all the world like they are shrieking "nnnnnnnOOOOOOWWWWW!". When I see a Blackberry, basically what I see is yet another peacock.


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