# epoxy removal



## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

so ive got a beautiful 59 kay 6950 cut away leader.
acoustic archtop.
its in great shape-
but somebody glued the neck on with some kind of epoxy.
fretboard extension, heel, the whole works.
and the angle is all wrong. lol.
its possible to put a severely cut down bridge on it and play it-
also it makes for a dandy lap slide.
but thats not what i want for it- i want the neck reset properly.
i was thinking some heat and vinegar maybe.
the guitar is really clean, so id hate to have to cut the neck off and convert to a bolt on.
anybody have any ideas?


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

https://www.tedpella.com/technote_html/Reworking_Cured_Epoxy.pdf

Its a challenge to remove without damaging the wood.


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## R.S.Fraser Sr. (Aug 15, 2009)

Hello Fraser,
Just in case you are wondering where to get Methylene 
chloride, as mentioned in the above pdf , 
it is commonly used as Plexiglas adhesive.
You can find it at a glass shop that sells acrylic sheet.
I have never seen it at the big box home supply stores.

About ten dollars for a small can.
It will do the trick for sure.

Edit - I just remembered seeing Toluene at home depot, it can be used for epoxy clean up during glue-ups.
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/toluene-378-l/912204
It will soften cured epoxy also.

While you are out shopping, 
go to the drugstore and buy a few
hypodermic syringes to get the 
solvent in the joints successfully

bob


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

zdogma- your link isnt opening. i will keep trying.

bob- thanks for the info. thats a couple things i can try.
theres a bottle of toluene here someplace.
and syringes i have-
theres a van that comes wednesday nights and gives out needles for guitarwork and balloons for the kids.
its crazy really- 

the real pity here is that if the neck joint was original and untampered with,
all that would likely be required is a good wack with a hammer on the heel.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

HI Fraser. It isn't opening for me anymore, either. Maybe the site is down. It was really good too...


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## R.S.Fraser Sr. (Aug 15, 2009)

Here is the txt from zdogma's link from eptek.com's pdf, that was not opening for all,
bob

Reworking, Removing and “Decapsulating” Cured Epoxies

A major advantage of using an epoxy is 
that it provides a very strong, permanent 
bond in adhesive applications. This permanence can also act as a limitation when 
needing to rework, remove or “decapsulate” the cured epoxy. This document lists 
several techniques which have shown to 
be effective tools in removing cured epoxy 
from substrates.

1. Chlorinated solvent is the most aggressive way to attack cured epoxy. Methylene 
chloride (dichloromethane) has shown the 
most success but does require the material 
to be soaked for several hours. Stripping 
Agent MS-111 (which contains approximately 85% methylene chloride) from 
the Miller- Stephenson Chemical Co. in 
Danbury, CT is a product that works very 
well. Dynaloy LLC also has several epoxy 
solvents and removers based on which type 
of epoxy hardener is used in a product.

2. A warm solution of sulfuric acid will 
dissolve the cured epoxy. This, like the 
chlorinated solvents, also requires a good 
soaking. An effective technique that some 
customers have used is repeatedly dropping 
the acid on the top surface of the epoxy to 
facilitate the removal.

3. Other chemicals which have shown to 
be effective: toluene, NMP (n-methlypyrollidone) and MEK (methyl-ethylketone).

4. Combination of heat and pressure. 
Since epoxies are thermosetting resins, they 
have a softening point called the glass transition temperature (Tg). Heating above 
the Tg will soften the material slightly and 
allow the epoxy to be pried away more 
easily. The tip of a soldering iron can be 
used as the heating mechanism and can 
be applied directly on the epoxy or at the 
bond line. When the adhesive becomes 
soft and “gummy”, de-bonding can occur. 
Heating of the substrate using a hot plate 
is another common technique, as well as 
using a conventional box oven.

5. Degradation temperature of the epoxy. 
Most epoxies will decompose and turn to 
carbon ash at temperatures of 400°C and 
above. By heating the unit above the degradation temperature (found on the data 
sheet), the epoxy adhesive simply burns 
away. 

6. Boiling water. Epoxies, when exposed 
to boiling water for an hour or so, will 
lift away from any surfaces in most cases. 
Some prying action may be needed and 
this technique can vary widely depending 
on epoxy and bonding surfaces.

7. Thermal shock. Large differences in 
thermal expansion rates between a substrate, adhesive or component can stress 
the epoxy and create joint separation as 
well as bond line lift. Thus, by imposing severe thermal fatigue on the adhesive 
joint, de-bonding can be accomplished 
simply by the thermal-mechanical differences of adhesive and substrate. 
Several of the techniques listed are destructive in nature and can be suicidal in terms 
of re-usable parts for manufacturing. 

This document makes no attempt to suggest 
how manufactured parts can be saved 
or reclaimed. Its intention is to provide 
means of solving erroneously placed epoxy 
or components, and failure analysis.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

awesome- thanks zdogma and bob- much appreciated.
its gonna be a mission.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

R.S.Fraser Sr. said:


> 6. Boiling water. Epoxies, when exposed
> to boiling water for an hour or so, will
> lift away from any surfaces in most cases.
> Some prying action may be needed and
> ...


So can it be steamed out the same way a horse glue joint is done?


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## R.S.Fraser Sr. (Aug 15, 2009)

Hello Scotty , in this case of doing this on a guitar, this would take a load of steaming, and any of the unfinished areas of the internal joint will swell like crazy, by the time the time the epoxy even thinks about softening.

Also from the sound of fraser's description, there is a lot of area to deal with at once, hard to get at all the areas at the same time with steam.
Here, I think you are best looking at trying to dissolve the bound surface areas with a solvent.

Though I have worries about preserving the original finish.

Bob


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2015)

give us a pic of the patient in question, fraser.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Scotty said:


> So can it be steamed out the same way a horse glue joint is done?


like bob points out, likely not a good idea in this case.
by the time it gets enough steam there will be fresh new problems to deal with.
the finish on this guitar is real nice- not sure if its a nitro or some sort of french polish type thing.
i dont want to mess it up.

i just read online that this model was only available in 1957. who knows.



> give us a pic of the patient in question, fraser.


will do larry.
when i can lol.
ive got 3 cameras here- just no batteries


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## Rudder Bug (Nov 21, 2011)

One thing that always worked for me is a cardbord cutter blade, heated with a torch. It will slowly but surely melt the epoxy and make its way through the joint. You will need to protect the surrounding area though.

My two cents


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

thanks rudder bug- thats a good suggestion, and ive actually done it this way before.
on one of my old harmonys i super heated a high e string and cut through a lot of the stuff.
i have a goal in mind with this one- i mean ive already put it off for like 4 years.
no rush at all- i just want the end result to be something to feel good about.
i appreciate all the ammunition you guys are providing me with.
and thats why i asked-


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