# Fake or Real Gibson?



## Polofiesta (Jul 6, 2009)

Hi I saw this guitar ...And I was wondering if this is a fake guitar.He says_"I have a mint 59 re-issue standard sunburst Les Paul copy guitar that plays identical to the Epiphones.Probably made at same factory.... but has the mother of pearl Gibson logo instead."
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## Stonesy (Oct 7, 2008)

Thats a fake!


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

the serial number 00170420 indicates...

Your guitar was made at the
Nashville Plant, TN, USA
January 17th, 2000
Production Number: 120 

use this link to date guitars by serial number

http://www.guitardaterproject.org/gibson.aspx

the wording of the ad states that it's a copy...
the truss rod cover should only say "standard" - nothing else

compare the fake les paul sig logo (left) to the real les paul sig logo (right)


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## Polofiesta (Jul 6, 2009)

Thanks Man


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

That is totally fake.


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

That guitar is a fake.


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## fishin' musician (Jun 19, 2008)

Yeah, this is a fake. Gibson would never use a spliced neck like this guitar has...check out the curved line just before the headstock where the neck changes colour. Epiphone uses necks like this (you can get more necks per cubic meter of wood) but so far Gibson hasn't resorted to this cost saving measure.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

He says right in the ad it's a "Les Paul *copy* guitar", so I don't find this misleading at all - especially given that he compares it most directly to an Epi.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

keto said:


> He says right in the ad it's a "Les Paul *copy* guitar", so I don't find this misleading at all - especially given that he compares it most directly to an Epi.


It's still a counterfeit _and_ it's still illegal.


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

2manyGuitars said:


> It's still a counterfeit _and_ it's still illegal.


What's illegal? The copy? 
Not the ad, he says it's a copy clearly in the title.


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## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

TDeneka said:


> What's illegal? The copy?
> Not the ad, he says it's a copy clearly in the title.


If it says "Bob" on the headstock it's a copy, but if it says "Gibson" and it's not, it's a counterfeit and it's illegal. Stay away. Whoever owns that guitar cannot legally sell it.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Lester B. Flat said:


> If it says "Bob" on the headstock it's a copy, but if it says "Gibson" and it's not, it's a counterfeit and it's illegal. Stay away. Whoever owns that guitar cannot legally sell it.


Exactly.

This one oozes fake--for the reasons given.
Also the "Gibson" logo looks wrong as well.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

TDeneka said:


> What's illegal? The copy?
> Not the ad, he says it's a copy clearly in the title.


The analogy I always use in this case is...

"I have some replica $20 bills for sale. They're $5 each."

I'm not breaking the law because I _clearly_ state in the ad that they're not real.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Lester B. Flat said:


> If it says "Bob" on the headstock it's a copy, but if it says "Gibson" and it's not, it's a counterfeit and it's illegal. Stay away. Whoever owns that guitar cannot legally sell it.


unfortunaly, the millions of chiness making those "copies" don't give a rat's ass. so we're seeing more and more of those copies cross into north america. At least this dude his honesst and not trying to push it has a real Gibson


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

al3d said:


> unfortunaly, the millions of chiness making those "copies" don't give a rat's ass. so we're seeing more and more of those copies cross into north america. At least this dude his honesst and not trying to push it has a real Gibson


Whether or not the "Chinese" give a rat's ass, a guitar falsely labeled as a Gibson Les Paul is a forgery and is not legal to sell. I'm no lawyer but I suspect it' not even legal to own one.

Now, this is just my opinion, but I think if you knowingly buy such a guitar, you're enabling the market and those who make these forgeries. You have to choose to be either a part of the solution or a part of the problem.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Now, this is just my opinion, but I think if you knowingly buy such a guitar, you're enabling the market and those who make these forgeries. You have to choose to be either a part of the solution or a part of the problem.


Right on brother!

Peace, Mooh.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

That's always been my opinion as well. As long as there are people willing to pay for fakes, people will continue to build fakes.

These guys who think they're not doing anything wrong because they clearly indicate it's a "replica" are a big part of the problem. Sure, you're not trying to cheat anyone, but what about the person buying it from you. When they try to sell it as the real thing 2 or 3 months from now, you're equally responsible.


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

2manyGuitars said:


> The analogy I always use in this case is...
> 
> "I have some replica $20 bills for sale. They're $5 each."
> 
> I'm not breaking the law because I _clearly_ state in the ad that they're not real.


LOL what? Completely different here.
Considering just about every company has made some sort of LP replica, this one is no different. 
It is not illegal to sell replica's of anything, why do you think you can buy replica shelby cobra's? Same principle. 

There isn't a problem when most of these replica's play better then the real things, at a fraction of the cost.



Milkman said:


> Whether or not the "Chinese" give a rat's ass, a guitar falsely labeled as a Gibson Les Paul is a forgery and is not legal to sell. I'm no lawyer but I suspect it' not even legal to own one.
> 
> Now, this is just my opinion, but I think if you knowingly buy such a guitar, you're enabling the market and those who make these forgeries. You have to choose to be either a part of the solution or a part of the problem.


Illegal to own one? now you guys are going off the deep end.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Getting back to the guitar itself. It has an ugly clown burst quilt top. Gibson rarely uses quilt maple. You will only see it on pricier guitars like the Les Paul Class 5 (I think that 's the name?) and the odd custom shop piece. One those guitars it looks really, really good.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

counterfeiters cross the line into illegal territory with misrepresenting the country of origin. They stamp "Made In USA" on the back of the headstock. Customs simply doesn't have time to worry about something like this. I wish they did, and would seize and destroy every one coming into Canada. 

selling a counterfeit as a real Gibson is fraud.

what I don't understand is why anyone would buy a fake Gibson? When this guys says 'probably made in the Epiphone factory', he's either daydreaming or just flat out bullshitting. Gibson owns that factory. I don't believe they sell to other manufacturers, guaranteed they don't sell to counterfeiters. This guitar was probably made in some dirt floor garage.

but if you want an inexpensive Les Paul, buy one from someone that has enough PRIDE in their guitars they will put their own name on it, eg Agile. A good guitar at a good price, you know what you're getting.

buy a fake Gibson? who you trying to fool, your friends, yourself?


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Whether or not the "Chinese" give a rat's ass, a guitar falsely labeled as a Gibson Les Paul is a forgery and is not legal to sell. I'm no lawyer but I suspect it' not even legal to own one.
> 
> Now, this is just my opinion, but I think if you knowingly buy such a guitar, you're enabling the market and those who make these forgeries. You have to choose to be either a part of the solution or a part of the problem.


Oh i totaly agree with the "principle" of it all, but not much Gibson or any other companies can realy do about it. Going after the insane amount of guitar shops doing those copies would basicaly take more money then gibson and Fender could put out togheter. it's now part of our culture to see those chiness fakes unfortunaly. And it's NOT only in guitars..it's basicaly everything you can think of.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

yep, IMO one of the worst is Shure mics. I used to like getting deals on used Shures. But I'm scared to buy a used one now.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

2manyGuitars said:


> When they try to sell it as the real thing 2 or 3 months from now, you're equally responsible.


In this case i have to disagree. If a Legitimate Gun shop sells a Gun to a card carried man...if he decideds to sell it underground, is the Saleman responsible if the second guy kills someone?....same thing realy


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

I think what 2manyguitars means is if you imported it, you started that process that somewhere down the line someone is going to try to sell it as real.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

dwagar said:


> I think what 2manyguitars means is if you imported it, you started that process that somewhere down the line someone is going to try to sell it as real.


yeah..if you start importing them by the dozen, that's for sure


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

TDeneka said:


> LOL what? Completely different here.
> Considering just about every company has made some sort of LP replica, this one is no different.


This one is different. It says "Gibson" on the front and "Made in USA" on the back. That's a counterfeit, not a replica.




TDeneka said:


> There isn't a problem when most of these replica's play better then the real things, at a fraction of the cost.


Now who's going off the deep end?


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

here's a vid showing how to spot fakes...i get a kick out of the warning note at the beginning...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvKo9Y52CEU


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

there are several articles with pics showing fake gibbos...like this one....

http://patrickhansen.com/blog/index.php/2008/10/30/fake-gibson-les-pauls?blog=5


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

capsule music is currently selling a replica gibson koa flying vee built by klaus k...complete with gibson logo on headstock...should it be confiscated and destroyed...???...should they be charged with illegal possession and counterfeiting...???...should gibson usa be informed...???...

http://www.capsulemusic.com/retail/what_new.asp

http://www.capsulemusic.com/retail/detail.asp?ID=4531


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

2manyGuitars said:


> This one is different. It says "Gibson" on the front and "Made in USA" on the back. That's a counterfeit, not a replica.
> 
> Now who's going off the deep end?


Do you know that it wasn't made in the USA? 
Maybe it was, you don't know. Most replica's also had Gibson written, they did get sued for it, but nothing you can do about it now.

Also as for the replica's playing better then the originals, i've played many. The quality of gibson's isn't some holy grail that can't be touched. 
Case and point, see Slash.
GG.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

TDeneka said:


> Also as for the replica's playing better then the originals, i've played many. The quality of gibson's isn't some holy grail that can't be touched.
> Case and point, see Slash.
> GG.


Slash's Derrig replica was built with quality parts and extreme and intensive labor.

Unlike the Chinese counterfeits which are mass-produced and have extremely poor quality of woods, parts and craftsmanship.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

jimihendrix said:


> capsule music is currently selling a replica gibson koa flying vee built by klaus k...complete with gibson logo on headstock...should it be confiscated and destroyed...???...should they be charged with illegal possession and counterfeiting...???...should gibson usa be informed...???...
> 
> http://www.capsulemusic.com/retail/what_new.asp
> 
> http://www.capsulemusic.com/retail/detail.asp?ID=4531


Because it's built by a luthier and expensive, most guys will say OH NO...it's hand made guitar..but in reality, it should be considered as illegal as the 200$ chiness copy


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

al3d said:


> Because it's built by a luthier and expensive, most guys will say OH NO...it's hand made guitar..but in reality, it should be considered as illegal as the 200$ chiness copy


It is illegal to sell it as a Gibson. But because of the loopholes in the law, it's not illegal when you don't sell it as such.

That's why high end replica sellers on e-bay don't include photos of the headstock with the Gibson and Les Paul logo and they do not include those words in their ad.

The thing is, high-end replicas such as Max, Derrig, Guitar Clinic, etc. exceed Gibsons' quality by a mile. That's why people choose to go with replicas.
If, for example, you choose to buy a Gibson, you can send it over to Historic Makeovers to get close to that quality and feel. And that, itself, is around a couple of grand up-charge.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

There's a big difference between moral issues (on which I agree with the majority, would never buy this guitar for that reason) and legal issues. I know it's common on the internet, but I wish the non-lawyers wouldn't dispense legal advice. Illegal to own one? OK let's have an example/precedent please.....

Lots of makers have had cease and desist orders served. Even the Agiles referenced earlier have the cutaway horn shortened for this reason, early production was not shortened (going back what, 5-7 years?).

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, and certainly Gibson has its faults, but comparing a $2-300 knockoff to a factory Gibson is just kksjur , makes one look very uneducated and unsophisticated.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

vasthorizon said:


> It is illegal to sell it as a Gibson. But because of the loopholes in the law, it's not illegal when you don't sell it as such.
> 
> That's why high end replica sellers on e-bay don't include photos of the headstock with the Gibson and Les Paul logo and they do not include those words in their ad.


Not quite right.

Whoops, I almost hypocritted (new word!) myself and gave legal advice hwopv :sport-smiley-002:

Anyways, any reference to Gibson gets the auctions shut down pretty quickly as a rule. Doesn't make it any more legal to sell them if they don't show the headstock, just makes it harder for them to get caught. I'm sure if Gibson hit the BIN and saw what arrived, they would pursue legal action (if they felt it was worth the time and $$, an unlikely scenario I totally agree).


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

vasthorizon said:


> Slash's Derrig replica was built with quality parts and extreme and intensive labor.
> 
> Unlike the Chinese counterfeits which are mass-produced and have extremely poor quality of woods, parts and craftsmanship.


Generalizing much?
A lot of good stuff comes out of china these days, i saw it all happen with the auto industry, now it's happening to everything else.
I would agree with you if this was 4-5 years ago, but chinese manufacturers have come a long way since before.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

jimihendrix said:


> capsule music is currently selling a replica gibson koa flying vee built by klaus k...complete with gibson logo on headstock...should it be confiscated and destroyed...???...should they be charged with illegal possession and counterfeiting...???...should gibson usa be informed...???


Technically, it is illegal.
Could Gibson take action? Yes.
Why don't they? I don't know, ask Gibson.
Anyone who thinks the laws don't apply to high end replicas, just drop Brian Monty a line.




TDeneka said:


> Do you know that it wasn't made in the USA.


The seller said "Probably made at same factory" as Epiphone. Last I checked, Epiphone didn't have a USA factory.




TDeneka said:


> Most replica's also had Gibson written, they did get sued for it, but nothing you can do about it now.


Let's get this out of the way right now. Stop calling this one a "replica". It's a counterfeit, or a fake if you prefer. I'm well aware of some of the quality replicas out there, but this isn't one of them.
As far as there being "nothing you can do about it now" see my reply to jimihendrix at the top of this post. My theory as to why Gibson does nothing? The Monty, Guitar Clinic, Klaus K guitars aren't built on a large enough scale to hurt Gibsons bottom line, but more importantly they don't damage Gibsons reputation or hurt the consumer. Although it's highly unlikely, there is a risk of prosecution and seizure every time one of these is sold.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

IIRC Guitar Clinic did get 'the letter' from Gibson.

It's real easy to tell a real replica from a fake. The replicas cost more than a new Gibson.

However, with the interest in replicas, anyone with a faker likes to call it a replica.

A real replica is made as close as possible to a real '59 LP. Same woods, same construction, same laquers, etc. And one of the reasons the high end Max's were so expensive was because they used all 50's LP hardware.


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

In my experience, people who knock Gibson and say things like "the chinese knock-offs are better" either can't afford one or they really want one. I call this _Gibson Envy_. Trust me guys, Gibsons are pretty nice guitars.


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

TDeneka said:


> Generalizing much?
> A lot of good stuff comes out of china these days, i saw it all happen with the auto industry, now it's happening to everything else.
> I would agree with you if this was 4-5 years ago, but chinese manufacturers have come a long way since before.


If we're using this guitar as the example, it looks to me that your Chinese manufacturers haven't come a long way. This guitar looks like garbage. Let's talk about that shitty 2-piece neck for starters; It's these shortcuts that Gibson won't take that allow us to confirm that they are not Gibsons. If these Chinese manufacturer's did take the time and use the quality parts/components, you'd be looking at a $2000 guitar again. If you see a chinese-made, Gibson-quality guitar for less, you're looking at a guitar that's built in a sweatshop type environment. That's something I wouldn't want to think about every time I pick up my guitar.


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## Stefano (Aug 31, 2009)

I'd love to get a Les Paul but there is soo many fakes out there, I just stay away. I'm sure I'm not the only one! I bet all these fakes have affected the resale opportunities for these guitars.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

I think you are one of the only ones. It's real easy to phone (or email) Gibson and check a serial number to ensure it's correct for the guitar.


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## Stefano (Aug 31, 2009)

OK I'm paranoid!hwopv


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

Just found this site:

http://fibsons.com


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

Greenbacker said:


> In my experience, people who knock Gibson and say things like "the chinese knock-offs are better" either can't afford one or they really want one. I call this _Gibson Envy_. Trust me guys, Gibsons are pretty nice guitars.


LOL i've owned 1 standard, and 2 studio's. There goes your logic.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Edited......


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

TDeneka said:


> LOL i've owned 1 standard, and 2 studio's. There goes your logic.


Well I wouldn't go with a Studio either, but the point here is that I'm sure any of your three Gibsons are better than the (probably Chinese) guitar in question... I think there is one or two guys out there who do like Gibsons though. Maybe I'm wrong. 

I noticed you didn't address the next comment. 9kkhhd


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

Greenbacker said:


> Well I wouldn't go with a Studio either, but the point here is that I'm sure any of your three Gibsons are better than the (probably Chinese) guitar in question... I think there is one or two guys out there who do like Gibsons though. Maybe I'm wrong.
> 
> I noticed you didn't address the next comment. 9kkhhd


I cannot comment whether or not that guitar is gonna be shit. No one knows here until they actually try it/ own it.
Odd point though, the Agile i have now which is made in china, out plays the 3 gibsons i have owned.
Actually didn't see a double post, normally people would just edit. 


Greenbacker said:


> If we're using this guitar as the example, it looks to me that your Chinese manufacturers haven't come a long way. This guitar looks like garbage. Let's talk about that shitty 2-piece neck for starters; It's these shortcuts that Gibson won't take that allow us to confirm that they are not Gibsons. If these Chinese manufacturer's did take the time and use the quality parts/components, you'd be looking at a $2000 guitar again. If you see a chinese-made, Gibson-quality guitar for less, you're looking at a guitar that's built in a sweatshop type environment. That's something I wouldn't want to think about every time I pick up my guitar.


Gibson takes shortcuts all the time. Quality parts huh? Just because a guitar is stamped with "made in the usa" doesn't mean shit. 
For all anyone knows, all of the modern day gibsons are made in china, assembled in USA. you are allowed to stamp it with a made in w/e logo by doing that. 
A side note, my guitar store gets more cash by repairing gibsons, then selling them. It's sad when you look at that, and then notice none of the guitars being brought in are Chinese.


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

TDeneka said:


> A side note, my guitar store gets more cash by repairing gibsons, then selling them. It's sad when you look at that, and then notice none of the guitars being brought in are Chinese.


It must be something in those little kids' fingers at the plant that make those Chinese guitars so good... Or maybe it's just that people buy more Gibsons than your awesome Fibsons. Especially people who are loading them in and out of vans, tossing them down chutes at airports, etc. You know... _Touring_ musicians. I wouldn't take a guitar with a two-piece neck on tour. I also don't think I'd pay to have a cracked headstock fixed on a $200 guitar.



TDeneka said:


> Actually didn't see a double post, normally people would just edit.


 What is this comment about? Getting petty, boss? Well in that case, it's _Studios_ not _studio's_.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## NIK0 (Dec 6, 2007)

I feel like throwing my two cents in here...

We live in a world where unfortunately big manufacturers no longer manufacture items locally...for the most part it is all outsourced and for that matter primarily outsourced in Asia. Gibson's lower/middle shelf stuff is all Korean/Chinese, G&L Legacy is made in Korea/China BUT assembled in the U.S. (still wonder about that), Fender guitars very few now are cut and made in the U.S. and the list goes on. 

The Chinese are known to the rest of the business world and those who know as masters in reverse engineering. From fake Rolex watches on the streets of New York City to buying a fake Gibson from the docks of Quebec, they are all sold as fakes and this is not an illegal transaction nor is it illegal to own one. Anyone can make a novelty item such as a fake Gibson and provided that it is sold/advertised as a fake, well then there is no problem AT ALL! From replicas of the 60s Porsche Boxter to Louis Vuitton bags...owning them is not a crime! 

So let's get this who ever purchases a fake or selling a fake is participating in illegal activities out of the way and out of this thread.

The next question is quality...no question hands down a $3000-$5000 Gibson Les Paul is great in quality. It is up to you whether or not you feel $3000 for a US made Gibson is worth it or for $700 a Chinese fake will do. Use your judgment as I don't have an opinion on which one is better. A guitar is the extension of your own arms and hands and if it works for you and it blows us away on your next album release then great...SRV did and he supported those lawsuit guitars as he used them himself.

The only crime is advertising a fake as real...that's where your balls should be cut off but it's all good...if you're buying a used Gibson, you should know what you're getting into and do your research. I wouldn't buy any diamonds from anyone until I took a course in "How to identify a real diamond". So if a real Gibson is what you are after then you better be sure and learn about how to identify a fake before you go and buy one. If you're that naive and think that everyone on this planet is to be trusted then...well...I dunno :|

Just ask the seller if he can meet you at a local authorized Gibson reseller or a guitar tech after seeing the guitar at his place. Play it, feel it, you like it, give him a guarantee that if he meets you at the tech, and confirms that it is real, you will pay him an extra $50-$100 buck for his time. You're still saving 20-40% on a used guitar, what is an extra 50 bucks for the comfort factor.

The Chinese make a great product...it is hit and miss and they all vary in quality. Some sound, feel and vibe just like a Gibson made Les Paul. Remember anyone can make a Les Paul...question is how it's made and if the luthier was in a good mood or not. I have played A LOT of shit Gibsons. They do not make them like they did 10-20 years ago. Quality has gone down significantly these days and "inconsistency" is a big reality now when trying to buy that one model that you like.

To sum it up...well I think I did...the guy at the beginning of this thread stated that it was advertised as a fake...why go through 5 pages of this thread to vent about something that has nothing to do with the initial message? Start up a new thread called "I want to stress out about fake Gibsons". Then all this would have made way more sense. As for the guy who started all this, the guitar doesn't look that impressive. Play it and if you like it then go for it!!! Buy what works for you provided that the sale is crystal clear and not fraudulent in any way.

My two cents..........


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

NIK0 said:


> Fender guitars very few now are cut and made in the U.S. and the list goes on.


I agree with you all the way..appart from the fender bit. Fender USA are still 100% in the US, and that is a fact for sure. EVerything is made in the Corona plante and the Mexico plant for amps and MIM guitars.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

al3d said:


> I agree with you all the way..appart from the fender bit. Fender USA are still 100% in the US, and that is a fact for sure. EVerything is made in the Corona plante and the Mexico plant for amps and MIM guitars.


There is a rumour that the workers at the Mexican plant make a run for the border at night to go to the USA plant to earn more money. hwopv


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

vasthorizon said:


> There is a rumour that the workers at the Mexican plant make a run for the border at night to go to the USA plant to earn more money. hwopv


LOL..man, that'de be a good one..morning shift in Mexico..and evening shift at COrona..


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## NIK0 (Dec 6, 2007)

Well a birdy told me that the U.S standards an deluxe are cut up in Mexico and assembled in U.S. So they can actually legally get away with stamping made in USA on them. But I here ya...I threw Fender in there last as an example ;-) 



al3d said:


> I agree with you all the way..appart from the fender bit. Fender USA are still 100% in the US, and that is a fact for sure. EVerything is made in the Corona plante and the Mexico plant for amps and MIM guitars.


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## NIK0 (Dec 6, 2007)

nkjanssen said:


> Absolutely incorrect. At the very least it will be a trademark violation, even if sold as a fake. Depending on the item, it could also be copyright infringement or patent infringement too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...






oHhh shush............


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

One point that gets missed is that these Chinese counterfeits are originally sold as the real thing. Read the ads on the web sites that sell them. I have lost count on how many times I have seen something like, "you want vintage Gibson, we have fine factory". If that isn't a giveaway then how about buying a so-called namebrand guitar for less than $200 while shipping is $500. Of course, you will get a sucker who believes this crap and then realizes that he got taken when the guitar arrives. Next, it ends up on CL as a "copy" for $700-$900 and the GuitarsCanada forumites jump all over it.

It also looks like the Chinese government is willing to do some thing about the problem of counterfeits http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/counterfeit-guitar-bust-708/

As I mentioned in a similar thread a while ago, there appear to be two separate and distinct markets of Chinese musical instrument makers. There are the cheap counterfeit instruments that are normally junk. On the other hand, there is a level of decent to very good quality instruments being built and sold here. These are often built for the world market with a North American distributor keeping a very close watch on QC. Examples are the new Hagstroms, Guild GAD series, Blueridge, Recording King, Epiphone Masterbilt acoustics, etc.


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

jimihendrix said:


> capsule music is currently selling a replica gibson koa flying vee built by klaus k...complete with gibson logo on headstock...should it be confiscated and destroyed...???...should they be charged with illegal possession and counterfeiting...???...should gibson usa be informed...???...
> 
> http://www.capsulemusic.com/retail/what_new.asp
> 
> http://www.capsulemusic.com/retail/detail.asp?ID=4531


Yes, yes and yes.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

bobb said:


> One point that gets missed is that these Chinese counterfeits are originally sold as the real thing. Read the ads on the web sites that sell them. I have lost count on how many times I have seen something like, "you want vintage Gibson, we have fine factory". If that isn't a giveaway then how about buying a so-called namebrand guitar for less than $200 while shipping is $500. Of course, you will get a sucker who believes this crap and then realizes that he got taken when the guitar arrives. Next, it ends up on CL as a "copy" for $700-$900 and the GuitarsCanada forumites jump all over it.
> 
> It also looks like the Chinese government is willing to do some thing about the problem of counterfeits http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/counterfeit-guitar-bust-708/
> 
> As I mentioned in a similar thread a while ago, there appear to be two separate and distinct markets of Chinese musical instrument makers. There are the cheap counterfeit instruments that are normally junk. On the other hand, there is a level of decent to very good quality instruments being built and sold here. These are often built for the world market with a North American distributor keeping a very close watch on QC. Examples are the new Hagstroms, Guild GAD series, Blueridge, Recording King, Epiphone Masterbilt acoustics, etc.


Actually the folks in CHina are realy open in telling you they are Gibson STYLE buitar reproduced in China. and they are NO WHERE near 700$. most are under 300$ with a lot of sellers offereing free shipping actually now in Canada and in the US.


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## NIK0 (Dec 6, 2007)

Ok look...I with confidence can say that most guitar enthusiasts have heard Of or read about these busts by local and Interpol officials taking down these fake Gibson factories. The whole point if no one is getting the message is that the black market is one interesting place/market. If you buy drugs do you really know what you're getting? The point you ask? We ALL know the potential we will come accross a sale that may not be legit...isn't it up to the buyer to understand that? Before you go out and accidentally buy oregano you have to make sure how to identify. 

The Chinese do not advertise fake Gibsons as real but rather the middle man. If you deal with Long &McQuade (middle man) you obviously trust them. If you deal with the buy and sell market then you obviously know what you're getting into which is why you play this game. 

AnywAys I forgot what my final point (opinion) was...gotta go and check on the pasta 






bobb said:


> One point that gets missed is that these Chinese counterfeits are originally sold as the real thing. Read the ads on the web sites that sell them. I have lost count on how many times I have seen something like, "you want vintage Gibson, we have fine factory". If that isn't a giveaway then how about buying a so-called namebrand guitar for less than $200 while shipping is $500. Of course, you will get a sucker who believes this crap and then realizes that he got taken when the guitar arrives. Next, it ends up on CL as a "copy" for $700-$900 and the GuitarsCanada forumites jump all over it.
> 
> It also looks like the Chinese government is willing to do some thing about the problem of counterfeits http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Features/counterfeit-guitar-bust-708/
> 
> As I mentioned in a similar thread a while ago, there appear to be two separate and distinct markets of Chinese musical instrument makers. There are the cheap counterfeit instruments that are normally junk. On the other hand, there is a level of decent to very good quality instruments being built and sold here. These are often built for the world market with a North American distributor keeping a very close watch on QC. Examples are the new Hagstroms, Guild GAD series, Blueridge, Recording King, Epiphone Masterbilt acoustics, etc.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

NIK0 said:


> Gibson's lower/middle shelf stuff is all Korean/Chinese


sorta, but they call them Epiphone. Gibson brand is not made offshore.

as a matter of fact, Epiphone has been made offshore since (I think) 1969.

I don't think the question is whether you get your money's worth buying an import guitar. The question is why would you want a guitar with a fake logo on it?


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

meatboard said:


> Last spring Fender tried UNSUCCESSFULLY to get a patent for their guitars. Life long patent doesn't seem to be in favor in the courts these days. Also this spring Gibson tried to sue Guitar Hero and lost big time. That means that it only a matter of time before Gibson is challenged and they will lose. Besides which guitars (string instruments) have been made the same way for centuries around the world.


Obtaining a patent on a particular product has _nothing_ to do with what we're talking about here. We're talking about counterfeits, not copies. 

Epiphone makes Les Paul copies, Hagstrom makes Les Paul copies, ESP makes Les Paul copies, etc., etc... There are countless companies that make Strat copies as well. None of that is illegal, for the most part, because they say Epiphone, Hagstrom, and ESP on the headstock. What _is_ illegal is making a copy and putting Gibson or Fender on it. If it wasn't built by them, then it's trademark infringement.

As far as the suit against Activision, do a little research before citing it as an example. The suit had nothing to do with guitars. Gibson filed a patent back in 1999 pertaining to "technology to simulate a musical performance". They claimed that that Guitar Hero was covered by this patent, and therefore they should receive licensing fees. They already (and still do) have a licensing agreement with Activision as far as guitars.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## meatboard (Apr 5, 2009)

point well taken I am not a lawyer just thought it was an interesting story to share.


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