# Fender/Vox Amp Advice



## joey_capps (Dec 23, 2008)

Hello Everyone:

I thinking of upgrading my rig for gigs, and I'm looking for some thoughts and advice. 

My current amp is a Fender ProTube Twin. My major complaint is is too damn heavy, and our practice space is up four long flights of stairs. Regular gigging is killing my back. So, option one is buying a second Twin and storing it at home.

However . . .

I'm thinking, if I'm going to buy a new amp why not upgrade my rig a little. I've always wanted a Vox AC30. I love the sound, and while I know I could get all the sounds I want from it, I'm not sure I easily and efficiently could in a live performance situation.

I also want to move toward a "stereo" setup, probably with two AC30s. I can't do that right now though.

I use the Twin typically, I guess. I use my effects pedals (delay, modulation, harmonizer, compression) in front of the clean channel. I usually run straight into the dirty channel with no effects out front.

Unless I've missed something, you can't switch channels on the AC30 without plugging and unplugging. Therefore, I would probably set it up for a relatively clean sound for a live performance. I guess I would need some sort of overdrive/distortion pedal to easily get the dirty sound--but I don't really want it to sound like a pedal. 

Question 1: Thoughts on pedal/AC30 combinations to achieve a warm, overdriven, mildly bluesy sound.

Question 2: This might be a stupid question, I know wattage and loudness aren't exactly the same thing, but I'm a little concerned that I going to lose some loudness going from a 100w Fender to a 30w Vox. We are not a loud band, I rarely turn up the volume past 5 on the Twin, but we are guitar/bass/drums and I need a full sound. Would one AC30 be loud enough for gigs where we end up not running everything through a PA? Unfortunately this happens more than I'd like, though it's usually a relatively small venue.

All thoughts and advice are appreciated, but I'm really looking for specifics here--maybe even a different suggestion for an amp. 

joey,

P.S. Sorry for the long post.


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## libtech (May 27, 2008)

AC-30's are loud! Not twin loud though. What about using some kind of pedal to switch which channel your guitar is plugged into to switch between dirt and clean?


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## joey_capps (Dec 23, 2008)

libtech said:


> AC-30's are loud! Not twin loud though. What about using some kind of pedal to switch which channel your guitar is plugged into to switch between dirt and clean?


Again, maybe a stupid question, but can you do that on an AC30? That is, can you have the plugs in both channels simultaneously? One won't over ride the other?


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Just a thought but if you're worried about the weight of a twin the AC30 would be very low on my list of alternatives. :smile:


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

davetcan said:


> Just a thought but if you're worried about the weight of a twin the AC30 would be very low on my list of alternatives. :smile:


AC30s can give you a nice tone, but Dave has a point because they are basically almost a Twin when it comes to size and weight; 2 12 inch speakers in a fairly large combo. 
I feel they would give you more than enough power and headroom still. but you aren't downsizing your rig and you will be still killing your back.

I think you could probably still get the power and Headroom you need with a stereo set of a couple 1x12 combos in around the 18 watt range.

Maybe a Trinity TC-15 for clean and effects, and a Trinity 18Watt TMB (with VVR) for dirt? But, maybe you want to switch between both clean to both dirty with the stomp of a foot?


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## Stevo (Apr 3, 2008)

Not sure about some of the other AC30 models but the newer AC30cc can be kind of made into a channel switcher with an A/B box out front. A lot of guys plug the A/B box into each separate Normal and Top Boost inputs and then set each channel how they want. Not literally a 'channel switching amp' but it can work. Another nice thing about the newer AC30cc is the defeatable effects loop. You can run your delays into the back through the loop. It sounds a lot better than in front IMO.

I don't think you will have a problem hearing an AC30, they are plenty loud in band situations. I use a Crowther Hotcake and a Fulltone Fulldrive in front of mine and they are great for low to mid gain. 

If you are worried about weight, maybe get an AC30cc head. That way, you can get a couple cabs (1x12 and a 2x12) and take the cab that is appropriate for the gig. Nowdays, I just buy heads and cabs. I mix and match them for different gigs and tones.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Stevo said:


> If you are worried about weight, maybe get an AC30cc head. That way, you can get a couple cabs (1x12 and a 2x12) and take the cab that is appropriate for the gig. Nowdays, I just buy heads and cabs. I mix and match them for different gigs and tones.


dingdingding ..... we have a winner.


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## joey_capps (Dec 23, 2008)

Stevo said:


> Not sure about some of the other AC30 models but the newer AC30cc can be kind of made into a channel switcher with an A/B box out front. A lot of guys plug the A/B box into each separate Normal and Top Boost inputs and then set each channel how they want. Not literally a 'channel switching amp' but it can work. Another nice thing about the newer AC30cc is the defeatable effects loop. You can run your delays into the back through the loop. It sounds a lot better than in front IMO.
> 
> I don't think you will have a problem hearing an AC30, they are plenty loud in band situations. I use a Crowther Hotcake and a Fulltone Fulldrive in front of mine and they are great for low to mid gain.
> 
> If you are worried about weight, maybe get an AC30cc head. That way, you can get a couple cabs (1x12 and a 2x12) and take the cab that is appropriate for the gig. Nowdays, I just buy heads and cabs. I mix and match them for different gigs and tones.


I would get the head and cab, but I'm not totally concerned with the weight per se. I'm concerned with lugging the weight up four long flights of stairs on an almost weekly basis. I'd leave the Fender at our practice space, and use the AC30 for gigs.

I was thinking of adding a Fulldrive or a Tube Screamer out front.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

joey_capps said:


> I would get the head and cab, but I'm not totally concerned with the weight per se. I'm concerned with lugging the weight up four long flights of stairs on an almost weekly basis. I'd leave the Fender at our practice space, and use the AC30 for gigs.
> 
> I was thinking of adding a Fulldrive or a Tube Screamer out front.


Again, the AC30 is not what anyone would describe as light. The advantage of a head and cab setup is you effectively get the tone, wattage and sound you want but by splitting the 2 sections you get easier to carry gear.

If you're looking at a clean only amp or even a channel switcher that is light _and _a combo you might want to look at some of the Randall RM series stuff. The Blackface preamp is dead on and really beautiful sounding - more like the twin you are used to. I haven't tried the vox-like preamp, but I'm sure it's as good. A little 1x12 combo like this might be what you want.

matt


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

dr z galaxie 

p


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## Wired (Jul 21, 2009)

Yea... AC30's are not light. I got both a twin and a pair of AC30's, and I gotta say they feel like they are similar weight.

I have a head cab AC30HW that I use for jams and taking back and forth between the jam space and my appartment for practices. But for studio use and special occasions the vintage AC30 comes out to play! 

They are plenty loud for gigging scenarios, in fact I'm usually the one that has to turn down, and I rarely use more than 1/4 of the volume knob (both of the models I use are non-master volume)

The best part about the AC30 is that it's one of the best foundations for tone that I have played (The '59 Bassman RI being the second best for me). Tons of clean headroom thats doesn't get muddy, with a top end zing that doesn't hurt the ears. Much nicer than a Twin in that respect.

For pedals I also use a Crowther Hot Cake (arguably the best pedal for low/mid gain AC30 users), a Rockett Flex Drive (a true favourite now, a bit more gain than the HC, but really really flexible and sounds terrific!), and a Emma Reezafratzitz (high gain rock and roll baby!) for my drive boxes. And the AC30 takes them all with stride!

I think a pair of AC30's is a lil overdoing it in a live situation (I've done it many times) and while it sounds bloody fantastic, the soundman bloody hates your guts because of the volume.

I ended up using an AC30/Bassman stereo rig for 5 years...and that was probably the prime way to go for a stereo rig for me.

Now it's just the AC30.


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## joey_capps (Dec 23, 2008)

Wired said:


> Yea... AC30's are not light. I got both a twin and a pair of AC30's, and I gotta say they feel like they are similar weight.
> 
> I have a head cab AC30HW that I use for jams and taking back and forth between the jam space and my appartment for practices. But for studio use and special occasions the vintage AC30 comes out to play!
> 
> ...


Thanks for resurrecting this thread. 

I've more or less decided to go with AC30 head and cab. I will have to try out those pedals.

I'll consider what to do for a stereo rig when I get to that point.

Just want to clarify, again--I don't really care about the weight. I plan to leave the twin at our practice space--permanently--no more lugging it up and down four flights of stairs. The AC30 will come out to play at gigs only--and in the studio--and at home. Repeat, I don't necessarily want a light amp! :smile:


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## Vox71 (Mar 25, 2008)

joey_capps said:


> I would get the head and cab, but I'm not totally concerned with the weight per se. I'm concerned with lugging the weight up four long flights of stairs on an almost weekly basis. I'd leave the Fender at our practice space, and use the AC30 for gigs.
> 
> I was thinking of adding a Fulldrive or a Tube Screamer out front.


The problem with using the Fender for rehearsals, and using the Vox for gigs, or vice versa, is that you will get use to sounds/tones/settings for rehearsals, and then when the gig comes along you will have an amp which performs entirely differently. Your ears won't be satisfied come gig time. This set up never worked for me


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I picked up an AC15HW and 1x12 cab with C. Blue last weekend. Whoooooaaaa ya, one of my favourites ever, and I have owned a lot of amps.

Tons of gain on hand, much more than I had imagined - don't get too excited, it's still that upper mid chimey VOXEY gain, sounds great but it isn't going to do hard rock or metal on its own. 

More volume than I had expected too. It has a 1/2 power switch for the entire amp (pentode/triode) and another one just for the EF86 channel (the other channel is Top Boost, 12AX7 driven), but that one stacks with the first one. So, you can get GOOD, VERY GOOD tone at reasonable volume, but, like most (all?) amps, it's at it's best at full power and cranked :rockon2: We're 'volume friendly' here, so I can crank it mostly when I want to, many of you would want/need an attenuator in order to run it up all the way. All that said, there isn't a ton of clean headroom which may be an issue for some. She's grinding pretty early on the volume knob, on either channel.

I had read that Voxes generally are better with single coils, and have certainly found that to be true - loves the Strat, LOVES the Tele, not as much love for the Mira and even less for the Les. What surprised me is that it hates the P90 equipped Soapbar SE.

Haven't tried out all my pedals yet, but it likes the overdrives I've thrown at it, does OK with the MicroPog, but the Fuzz Face yuck.

Unlike the CC version, there's no trem or reverb. Non-issue for me.

It sounds like any AC30 I've ever heard in recordings. For anyone watching this thread, I would definitely recommend giving the AC15HW some consideration, especially if weight and/or volume are issues vis-a-vis an AC30.


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## Stevo (Apr 3, 2008)

joey_capps said:


> Just want to clarify, again--I don't really care about the weight. I plan to leave the twin at our practice space--permanently--no more lugging it up and down four flights of stairs. The AC30 will come out to play at gigs only--and in the studio--and at home. Repeat, I don't necessarily want a light amp! :smile:


Great, I think an AC30 head is the way to go. Here is another idea. Buy two cabs and have a cab at your rehearsal spot and at home. That way, you are just taking the head. It is compact, and not too heavy or bulky. Also, as mentioned, you will have the same tone for both rehearsal and gigs. 




keto said:


> I picked up an AC15HW and 1x12 cab with C. Blue last weekend. Whoooooaaaa ya, one of my favourites ever, and I have owned a lot of amps.
> 
> Tons of gain on hand, much more than I had imagined - don't get too excited, it's still that upper mid chimey VOXEY gain, sounds great but it isn't going to do hard rock or metal on its own.
> 
> More volume than I had expected too. It has a 1/2 power switch for the entire amp (pentode/triode) and another one just for the EF86 channel (the other channel is Top Boost, 12AX7 driven), but that one stacks with the first one. So, you can get GOOD, VERY GOOD tone at reasonable volume, but, like most (all?) amps, it's at it's best at full power and cranked :rockon2: We're 'volume friendly' here, so I can crank it mostly when I want to, many of you would want/need an attenuator in order to run it up all the way. All that said, there isn't a ton of clean headroom which may be an issue for some. She's grinding pretty early on the volume knob, on either channel.


Did you get the AC15 head and cab at Avenue Guitars? I tried the one they had there and it was indeed a glorious sound, probably the best Vox tone I've heard in person. I would love to gig with it but I need the master volume and the FX loop of the CC model for the gigs I do. Maybe I'll get one anyway, hehe.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Yes, from Avenue. Brian treats me very well, has done for over 10 years now.


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## Wired (Jul 21, 2009)

keto said:


> Yes, from Avenue. Brian treats me very well, has done for over 10 years now.


Brians the man!

Sold me my Orange gear, Tokai, and a few other nice peices. I love Avenue.


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## michelj (Mar 24, 2007)

Vox71 said:


> The problem with using the Fender for rehearsals, and using the Vox for gigs, or vice versa, is that you will get use to sounds/tones/settings for rehearsals, and then when the gig comes along you will have an amp which performs entirely differently. Your ears won't be satisfied come gig time. This set up never worked for me


That might not be an issue for some people but that would be my concern also going from rehearsal to gigging with two totally different amps. It's difficult enough having to contend with the differing acoustics between a rehearsal space and a gigging venue. I would just as soon go in with the same setup.


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## joey_capps (Dec 23, 2008)

michelj said:


> That might not be an issue for some people but that would be my concern also going from rehearsal to gigging with two totally different amps. It's difficult enough having to contend with the differing acoustics between a rehearsal space and a gigging venue. I would just as soon go in with the same setup.


I thought about this, but I don't think it would be that big a problem. 

1) It's not like I'm going from a Marshall half-stack to AC30. From what I can tell, there is enough similarity between Vox and Fender amps to minimize this problem--though I will concede they don't sound the same.

2) I usually set one clean sound and my pedals to shape the sound. Yes, I will have to figure out how the pedals and the different amps work together, but I should be able to get a decent starting point--I usually end up tweaking my pedals if we have the chance for a sound check, anyway.

3) I prefer the Vox sound slightly to the Fender. Though I really do like the overdriven channel on the Twin.

4) We play all original music--so I am only trying to emulate my sound anyway.

5) The two cab one head solution is interesting but . . . I would never leave my personal equipment in our practice space. The twin belongs to the band. Bringing the head back and forth for every practice would necessitate an extra climbing of the stairs at every practice. It's bad enough that I have carry my pedal board up and down.

joey


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## tubetwang (Dec 18, 2007)

I'd get someone to build you a Trainwreck clone... either a Liverpool or a Rocket and a small 1x12" cab.

You could go from clean to mean with you guitar volume pot.

No need for pedals.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

joey_capps said:


> I thought about this, but I don't think it would be that big a problem.
> 
> 1) It's not like I'm going from a Marshall half-stack to AC30. From what I can tell, there is enough similarity between Vox and Fender amps to minimize this problem--though I will concede they don't sound the same.


I totally disagree. Assside from the fact that the tone stacks are completely different, the AC 30 is a class A amp running el84 power tubes while the Twin is class AB running 6L6 tubes. A compltely diffeent pallette that respond in very different ways to effects and techniques.



joey_capps said:


> 2) I usually set one clean sound and my pedals to shape the sound. Yes, I will have to figure out how the pedals and the different amps work together, but I should be able to get a decent starting point--I usually end up tweaking my pedals if we have the chance for a sound check, anyway.


If you sound check??! that's mandatory if you want to sound decent. Also, the cleans are different sounding on the two amps, with the fender being more bass heavy with almost no "overdrive" or "hair" present at all and the Vox accentuates higher frequencies and gets "hairy" much quicker.



joey_capps said:


> 3) I prefer the Vox sound slightly to the Fender. Though I really do like the overdriven channel on the Twin.


Another reason to get the head and cab setup. You can run your AC 30 head through the twin cabinet at rehearsal.



joey_capps said:


> 4) We play all original music--so I am only trying to emulate my sound anyway.


So only you'll know if your sound is totally frustrating you?



joey_capps said:


> 5) Bringing the head back and forth for every practice would necessitate an extra climbing of the stairs at every practice. It's bad enough that I have carry my pedal board up and down.


Don't be a wuss.


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

Just thought I'd chime in.

I've had both. I'd almost say that some Vox amps are more similar to some Marshalls than some Fenders. Ha ha. What kind of useless statement is that, eh?

I love a Vox. They are great , but a true AC30/15TB circuit is a bit of a one trick pony. I've always had a hard time trying to trick a Vox into doing something that it doesn't want to. 

Fenders are typically big, ballsy and loud! The 6L6s are wild! You can get clean low-end headroom out of those amps that a Vox could never do... But then again a Vox doesn't want to do that. I think of Twins as a blank canvas that you can get close enough with anything with. Ever Consider using Menatone pedals with your Fender? TBIAC?

With all of this said, I do use a Vox amp primarily.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

*Don't be a wuss*. 

ha ha ... I have been thinking that through this thread 

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...02P/Ultra-Steel+Twin+Hand+%26+Truck+Dolly.jsp


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## joey_capps (Dec 23, 2008)

shoretyus said:


> *Don't be a wuss*.
> 
> ha ha ... I have been thinking that through this thread
> 
> http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...02P/Ultra-Steel+Twin+Hand+%26+Truck+Dolly.jsp



(1) People seemed to think I wanted a light amp. That was not the case. I responded with a little hyperbole to make that point. People were not reading what I wrote. 

(2) There is often no parking within 2 blocks of our space. It is up four long, narrow flights of stairs--close to five stories. Also, our space isn't in the best area of town.

(3) The dolly wouldn't help matters. The amp is already on wheels, and it is easier to get two people to carry the amp up the stairs than try to navigate the dolly.

So, yes, I am a wuss. Now, can we get back to the topic at hand.

I'm toying with a new idea. Getting rid of the Fender and buying 2 AC30 heads and 3 cabs--2 for shows and 1 to leave in the practice space. In this scenario, I could leave one AC30 head at the rehearsal space and take it with me to shows, and have one for home and shows. Also, it would give me a backup amplifier for shows.

My question is as to the relative merits of single speaker cabs versus two speaker ones. For shows I would run a stereo rig, for rehearsal I would just use one amp. I thinking of two single speaker cabs for the shows, and a two speaker cab for the rehearsal space.

BTW, we don't always get the luxury of a sound check. We are usually on a bill three or four other bands, and often we're setting up while the band before us is tearing down. 

flame away . . .


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