# Bill Ward to pull out of Sabbath?



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Looks like they are trying to pay him scale



> Bill Ward – drummer with Black Sabbath – has threatened to pull of the legendary heavy metal band's latest reunion.
> 
> Ward has stated that he is unhappy with the contract for the band's new album and world tour, and has said that he will not take part in the new album sessions and shows if a 'fair agreement' is not met. Posting a statement on his Facebook page earlier today (February 2), Ward wrote:
> I am unable to continue unless a 'signable' contract is drawn up; a contract that reflects some dignity and respect toward me as an original member of the band.
> ...


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Looks like they are trying to pay him scale


he could always pass around a tip jar.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Isn't Iommis health a bigger concern at this time?


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## NB_Terry (Feb 2, 2006)

Sharon's turning the screws.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

NB_Terry said:


> Sharon's turning the screws.


That's the rumour right now...Sharon will try to get everyone in there for peanuts so that she can wring every dollar out of it for Ozzy (her). Witch with a 'B'.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

I doubht Sharon has anything to say about the 3 other members....but Ozzy might be asking to much..and so his Tony..


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## NB_Terry (Feb 2, 2006)

smorgdonkey said:


> That's the rumour right now...Sharon will try to get everyone in there for peanuts so that she can wring every dollar out of it for Ozzy (her). Witch with a 'B'.


Ever since she re-recorded Blizzard, I've thought she's pretty awful. She took royalty money from people that need it a hell of a lot more than Ozzy does.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

She has always been about the money and in that regard she has done a fabulous job. I think Billy Corgan was the only person she could never beat into submission


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

NB_Terry said:


> Ever since she re-recorded Blizzard, I've thought she's pretty awful. She took royalty money from people that need it a hell of a lot more than Ozzy does.


re-recorded?....actually it's back to it's original form...


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## NB_Terry (Feb 2, 2006)

al3d said:


> re-recorded?....actually it's back to it's original form...


Yes they re-recorded bass & drum tracks with new guys. I know it's back to it's original form now.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

You'd think that they'd wait until either Tony pulled through and is willing/able to play.

Scratch that one off the list, I guess.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Official response from Black Sabbath



> “We were saddened to hear yesterday via Facebook that Bill declined publicly to participate in our current Black Sabbath plans...we have no choice but to continue recording without him although our door is always open... We are still in the UK with Tony. Writing and recording the new album and on a roll...


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I'd like to know how much more $$$ Ozzie is getting than was offered to Bill. But with all the confidentiality legal stuff, I guess we will never know.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Breaking news...

http://www.metaltalk.net/news2012/2012585.php#.TzF55OD4GgY.facebook

Well, after reading it through, it's not so ground breaking.

It does say that Sharon fired him though. Huh?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Since when was Sharon Osbourne calling the shots for Black Sabbath? Ozzy yes, but she does not manage the band as far as I know


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Ozzy and Sharon have the Big end of the Stick right now. With Dio's Passing..Sabbath is basically done for. The first leg of the Heaven and Hell tour was very successful, and the second one was underway but cut short with Ronnie's passing. At this Stage of their Career, Sabbath can't go looking for another singer..so only OPTION..is Ozzy, and Sharon knows that well..BUT..Ozzy does'nt need Sabbath to continue his career....SO...Big Stick...Big Stick.


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## Destropiate (Jan 17, 2007)

Disclaimer: I am a HUGE Black Sabbath fan....

Having said that.......They all have loads of money. The record will sell and the tour will make money but do they really need it? Geezer has GZR. Tony is sick. Bill is out. I hate to say it but these days Ozzy just wanders around the stage hunched over looking confused clapping his hands and telling everyone he loves them. Whats to see? And at the expense of tarnishing the image of the band, pissing off lifelong fans for the last time and ruining the relationship with Bill Ward it just doesn't seem close to worth it to me. Time to pack it in boys. If its not all 4 of you why bother?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Sharon already came up with a cheap replacement if Tony is too sick to make it. So they could replace Ward with Ringo Starr and they are set to hit the road.

[video=youtube;Gz2fWwdvhOY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz2fWwdvhOY[/video]


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## cwittler (May 17, 2011)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Since when was Sharon Osbourne calling the shots for Black Sabbath? Ozzy yes, but she does not manage the band as far as I know


 You are correct. She manages Ozzy. All the members have their own personal managers and to date, I believe the band uses Rod MacSween as their booking agent.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

yuto is a cool little kid, be nice! 


but more on topic, i agree, someone needs to get rid of sharon. who knows, maybe she'll fall down some stairs or something. as far as ozzy goes, i've never liked anything i saw or heard from him live, and always thought he sucked as a live performer. when i listen to his studio stuff, i'm not positive, but i think i'm hearing pitch correction in his vocals


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## Destropiate (Jan 17, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> yuto is a cool little kid, be nice!
> 
> 
> but more on topic, i agree, someone needs to get rid of sharon. who knows, maybe she'll fall down some stairs or something. as far as ozzy goes, i've never liked anything i saw or heard from him live, and always thought he sucked as a live performer. when i listen to his studio stuff, i'm not positive, but i think i'm hearing pitch correction in his vocals


 
I'm not sure if its pitch correction exactly but it is definitely some sort of studio magic. If you youtube live Ozzy from 2011 his vocals are not really all that strong anymore. You can listen to any of the original albums Sabbath albums and hear what Ozzy sounded like just straight up singing to tape. Its allot different now but not in the way that it simply sounds like he has aged. I think the first time I noticed his vocals being really "produced" was on Ozzmosis. Im not saying its an entirely bad thing, he was never the best singer in the world but it is what it is. Like I said I love all the classic Sabbath and Ozzy stuff but after Ozzmosis I wasn't really ever that impressed with the material.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Since when was Sharon Osbourne calling the shots for Black Sabbath? Ozzy yes, but she does not manage the band as far as I know


From what I've heard since I posted that link, is that Sharon has been managing the band for a few years now.
Apparently, that's why the tour with RJD had to be named Heaven and Hell.

Oy.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

If that's true it's trouble. Ozzy should know better


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

This is the closest thing that I could find to say anything about it.
Read the first line of the article.

http://kslx.com/mark-mayfield/blog/black-sabbath-still-working


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## cwittler (May 17, 2011)

One of the big problems with doing anything with the orginal members of Black Sabbath is that they have no formula or contract for determining who is worth what. They all feel they should have equal stake (i.e. - 25%) and there have been various legal spats about it in the past. But to date, nothing has been resolved legally. It is all left to negotiation and it is this negotiation that is failing Mr. Ward, just like it always does...at least in his mind...which is more zany than Ozzy's from what we are lead to believe about him. 

And, oh, by the way, Sharon Osbourne came out stating the she did not fire Bill Ward from Black Sabbath. She is claiming she has no power or authority to fire anyone in Black sabbath. She is claiming she only manages Ozzy and not the band Black Sabbath. So there you have it. At least for now. Stay tuned.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Conflicting reports. Does Sharon Osbourne manage Black Sabbath or not? That is the question.


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## cwittler (May 17, 2011)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Conflicting reports. Does Sharon Osbourne manage Black Sabbath or not? That is the question.


She says she only manages Ozzy, not Black Sabbath. Each member of Black Sabbath has their own personal management. The band has a booking agent they use, whose name is Rod MacSween. Not sure who the tour manager is.

http://www.nme.com/news/black-sabbath/61933

http://www.itb.co.uk/agent.aspx?agentId=62


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I may be wrong on this, but wasn't there health issues with Bill Ward on past tours? Did he actually have to leave either one or 2 tours mid-tour? Maybe that has some relation to his contract?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

torndownunit said:


> I may be wrong on this, but wasn't there health issues with Bill Ward on past tours? Did he actually have to leave either one or 2 tours mid-tour? Maybe that has some relation to his contract?


He had, or has a heart condition I believe. It was in question on that last big reunion tour they did. But I seen them in Hamilton or may it was Rogers, can't remember and he was doing fine


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## cwittler (May 17, 2011)

torndownunit said:


> I may be wrong on this, but wasn't there health issues with Bill Ward on past tours? Did he actually have to leave either one or 2 tours mid-tour? Maybe that has some relation to his contract?


A little bit of history here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ward_(musician)


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

cwittler said:


> A little bit of history here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ward_(musician)


I have a book that follows Sabbath album by album, and there were also tours he just flat out said no to. During one he was touring with his solo band. I needed a refresher on what I had read though because it's been a few years since I read it. That wiki entry does confirm he had to leave to previous tours though, so I did remember that. From what I could remember, it really didn't sound shocking that he wouldn't get an equal share.

But I did see this on the wiki page lol:



> According to Tony Iommi, he and the band would often set Ward's beard on fire and perform other harmful pranks on him. On one occasion, Ward even received third-degree burns


So maybe he does deserve more.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

i've seen Ozzy on his last tour..and he's in GREAT shape physically..i was totally suprised, his voice was quite good for about 40 minutes..then he takes a good 15 to 20 minute break..so we get a LONG winded boring drum solo..and same thing with his new axe man. Then he comes back and his voice is somewhat "decent" at best..but he still gets the folks wild...that is for sure.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

al3d said:


> i've seen Ozzy on his last tour..and he's in GREAT shape physically..i was totally suprised, his voice was quite good for about 40 minutes..then he takes a good 15 to 20 minute break..so we get a LONG winded boring drum solo..and same thing with his new axe man. Then he comes back and his voice is somewhat "decent" at best..but he still gets the folks wild...that is for sure.


Ozzy in "great shape"?

I'll take that to mean great shape (for Ozzy).

I find it hard to believe he could possibly whip what's left of his body into what most of us would call great shape.

I AM a fan by the way, but I'm one of those who thinks his best days are long behind him.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Latest news on Tonys' health...

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/News/tony-iommi-0327-2012/


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

No more Mr. Ward on the Sab site;

Black Sabbath Remove Bill Ward From Images on New Website

Black Sabbath Vow to Continue Without Drummer Bill Ward | Music News | Rolling Stone

Bill's side of the story; 

"Dear Sabbath Fans and Fellow Musicians, 

I sincerely regret to inform you that after a final effort to participate in the upcoming Sabbath shows a failure to agree has continued. At this time I have to inform you that I won't be playing with Black Sabbath at the Birmingham gig dated May 19, 2012, nor will I be playing at Download on June 10, 2012. Further, I will not be playing at Lollapalooza on August 3, 2012. 

It is with a very sad heart that I bring you this news. I am sincerely passionate in my desire to play with the band, and I'm very, very sorry that it's fallen to this. This statement is even more painstaking to write, as I was particularly excited to play alongside Tony Iommi after the recent treatments he underwent. I wanted that to become a reality. 

To express my thoughts about you, the Sabbath fans, I'm going to speak to you all through an experience my brother James had recently. My brother Jimmy lives in the U.K. When speaking with him a couple of days ago, he told me that an acquaintance had stopped him on the street and confronted him, 'Is your brother playing Birmingham? What's going on? I waited in line with my son and paid x amount for the concert tickets.' 

The man's son is a young drummer. He's going to see Sabbath, and he wants to see Bill Ward play drums. Upon hearing this news, I felt horrible. I couldn't help feeling some resentment towards the failure to reach an agreement, the failure to remember where we came from, the failure to be as brothers, as we once were. To be clear, I'm not blaming the other guys or finding any faults with them. I would think it can't be easy for them either, but this situation is just really sad. It's sad that it's come to this. 'This' will surely leave a mark and be unwelcome to the memory. Hopefully 'this' will heal and pass in time. 

My heart sank when Jimmy told me about this young boy. I know this boy is going to be disappointed, and I don't know how to amend it, other than to put my arms around the boy and tell him I love him. Sabbath fans have a voice and a face, to me you're human, you have families and despair. You have ferocity and emotions and graciousness, and at this moment as far as I'm concerned you are also that young boy in England. I don't know how to amend my part in these failings other than to put my arms around you and say I love you and let you know I'm very, very sorry. 

Throughout this process, which began over a year ago, I have had to stand up for myself time and time again. I have had to stand up for myself and in doing so realize my actions indirectly, although unintentionally, are upsetting and hurting a lot of you. I know in my heart I couldn't have done these concerts by agreeing the terms suggested. I made a solemn vow after the last European and Ozzfest concerts that I would never again enter into what was, in my opinion, a totally unsatisfactory contract. I have to stand for something, and as painful as it is, I'm doing it. 

Earlier in April 2012, I'd been asked to participate 'minimally' in the Download festival. I believe I'd been offered no more than three songs to play while another drummer presumably played the rest of the show with Black Sabbath. I was not willing to participate in that offer. I was not prepared to watch another drummer play a Sabbath set, while I was to play only three songs. 

I found out about the Birmingham gig on Monday, April 30 through the Internet ad. I was taken aback somewhat by the date, and the fact it was Birmingham. Knowing the "signable" contract negotiations were at best in shreds, I was upset by the idea that the band was going to play Birmingham and play it assumedly without me. I had no prior knowledge of the date and location, and I felt totally excluded. We contacted the representative for Black Sabbath to see if something could be worked out. In the meantime my drum crew and I, along with our US endorsers, finished all the necessary planning for a swift departure to the UK. There wasn't a whole lot to complete; we'd all been on standby more or less since mid-January 2012. The remaining work in the UK was confirmed done by our European and UK endorsers and we were good to go by Friday, May 4 2012. There were two stress points: firstly, getting an agreement in place, and secondly, getting to England in a timely manner. Jetlag time was taken into account as well as drum practice, a drum practice room in the heart of Birmingham, accommodation, and travel arrangements were all in place to meet with any band rehearsals that may have transpired before the Birmingham show. So far everything that had been arranged was on my dime, but we didn't move ahead without a realistic confirmation. 

Communications between the representative and my lawyer continued through the weekend of May 5 finalizing on Wednesday, May 9. The offer we received on May 9 was, 'come to the U.K., play for free and see how the first show goes.' I was tempted. Playing for free would not have been a problem for me, but 'seeing how the first show goes' left an element of risk which could have affected Download. My ideal thought was to play in full the Birmingham show, in full Download, and in full Lollapalooza. 

I had notified the representative that May 10 was my cutoff day in order to have good lead-in time for England. On the night of May 9 I asked for a brief letter to be sent to the representative asking to find out if we were at an end. On the morning of Thursday, May 10, I received a reply in the affirmative. After consulting with my advisors and crew a decision was made to let go and stop. 

I can't prioritize the Sabbath fans making one show more important than the other. I can't do that. All of you are important. It's all the gigs or none at all. I can't come to Birmingham and 'see what happens' knowing there is a risk of not being able to play Download or Lollapalooza. Again, for me, it's all or nothing. I had to say 'no' to Birmingham on the principle of wanting to play all the shows. Saying no to Birmingham is very difficult for me. My family grew up in Birmingham. Black Sabbath grew up in Birmingham. It's still my hometown and I resent having to arrive at such a difficult choice. 

Although the statement was made that, 'the door is always open' for me, as explained above, walking through that door is not always as easy as it sounds. There are many complicated issues and unseen and unspoken agendas on hand. I can assure you, my criteria for a "signable" contract is based in mindful principles, respectability, and acknowledgement of my history within the band. 

I hold no malice or resentment towards the other band members. I love them; I'm tolerant of them; I'm frustrated with them, as they may be with me. My fight has never been with them. I'll love them forever. In my opinion, nobody wins this time; the band doesn't win; the fans for an original lineup don't win. Nobody wins, nobody. Even the ones who thought they did. I didn't want to make this decision, but I have to be honest and transparent. This is the statement I didn't want to write; it's the last thing I wanted to do. But, I have written it, and now it can go into the universe. 

Since Spring of 2011, I've waited patiently and hopefully for a signable contract, you know the rest. I stand for the boy in the U.K., for the coming drum student, for all the drummers, who write their parts out and get stiffed on the publishing, I stand with the Sabbath fans chanting 'Bill Ward' and asking 'why?' and I stand with Tony and Geezer and Ozzy. 


On a final note, even though I'm at an end with the upcoming announced concerts, I will remain with an open mind and a position of willingness to negotiate 'signable' terms with Sabbath's representatives in the future. 

Stay strong. 

Stay safe. 

With all my heart and strength, I love you, 

Bill Ward"


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Figured that was going to happen. Never know the actual details but if you go by his story, they wanted the man to play for free or peanuts


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Such a load of BS and needless drama.

IMO, it's NOT Black Sabbath without the original lineup.
Count me out.


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

Black Sabbath 

O2 Academy, Birmingham, UK 5/19/12 

01 Intro 
02 Into the Void 
03 Under the Sun 
04 Snowblind 
05 War Pigs 
06 Wheels of Confusion 
07 Electric Funeral 
08 Black Sabbath 
09 The Wizard 
10 Behind the Wall of Sleep 
11 N.I.B. 
12 Fairies Wear Boots 
13 Tomorrow's Dream 
14 Sweet Leaf 
15 Symptom of the Universe 
16 Drum Solo 
17 Iron Man 
18 Dirty Women 
19 Children of the Grave 
20 Sabbath Bloody Sabbath 
21 Paranoid 

Band Line-up 
Ozzy Osbourne - vocals 
Tony Iommi - guitar 
Geezer Butler - bass 
Tommy Clufetos - drums (from Ozzy's solo band)


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

Geezer's comments:

*Heavy Heart*

Posted on May 19, 2012 
I feel sad to see the Sabbath reunion becoming a bit of a soap opera on the internet. It has been a very tough year for us as a band, having announced our reunion plans, only for Tony to be diagnosed with lymphoma, leaving us no choice but to postpone the proposed Sabbath tour, and then for Bill to go public on his site about an un-signable contract. None of us knew how Tony was going to respond to his intensive chemo therapy, and radiotherapy. Ozzy and myself flew to England to be with Tony, and on his “good” days, we’d meet at his home studio and put ideas together for the upcoming album, all sitting down together, no drummer involved, just 3 of us quietly putting together ideas. We thought that when we had enough songs together for a full band rehearsal, we’d move back to L.A and put the whole thing together with Bill. Unfortunately, to our surprise, Bill issued a statement on his site saying he’d been offered an un-signable contract. He hadn’t told any one of us he was having contractual problems, and frankly those things are worked out between our representatives, and never between the four of us let alone in public. We had the idea of keeping just one show in this year, hoping that Tony would be well enough for that show, and that things with Bill would be sorted. As you may expect, a one off show at Donnington Festival (Download) costs an absolute fortune to stage, involving over 50 people, transport, air fares, hotels, meals, agents, promotors, accountants, lawyers etc, so none of us, expected to make much money from it- it was a one off Sabbath show for the fans, before we go into recording the new album. Apparently, this wasn’t acceptable to Bill’s representatives, they wanted an amount that was so unrealistic that it seemed to have been a joke. So we resigned ourselves to doing Download without Bill, hoping he’d change his mind and at least make a guest appearance. We started rehearsals a few weeks ago with Tommy Cluefetos, the drummer who will be on the Ozzy and Friends Tour. Brilliant drummer and good bloke. It was decided we’d better do a warm up show, to break the ice since we haven’t played together live. The O2 Academy was available in Birmingham, where we were rehearsing, so we decided on that, and to make a donation to Help For Heroes Charity, since we’d be ironing out any glitches we may have. Then Bill put out a further statement saying he’d been ready to play the Birmingham show , but he was expected to have to do it “for free”- well, I think that’s basically how you raise money from gigs for charity – you play them “for free”.
All I am saying is that there are two sides to everything. I do hope to play with Bill again some day. For whatever reason; it wasn’t meant to be this time. Bill’s made his decision, and I have to respect that. Hopefully this painful year will be worth the wait for the new Sabbath album and end in joy and happiness for all.
Stay frosty,
Geezer


Heavy Heart :: The Official Geezer Butler Website


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## ledfloyd (Apr 1, 2011)

[h=2]_"Bill Ward to pull out of Sabbath?"_[/h]Of course a drummer would use the rhythm method.


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