# Anyone else frustrated with Canadian Retailers?



## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

I am Canadian and proud of it. When I can I like to deal with Canadian Company's. Recently I bought my first Telecaster and wanted to change out the saddles and the Bridge pickup. I called 4 retailers within a 40k radius and e-mailed another 7. Not one of them had a Bridge pickup for a Tele in stock. Mind you I only heard back from 3 out of 7 e-mails (it's been a week).

Come on guy's it's a Telecaster and no one has a bridge pickup... or replacement saddles... And no one even offered to order anything for me.
I e-mailed one Company South of the border and an hour later I received a "detailed" e-mail with suggestions and prices. I decided to phone them and now my order is in the Mail and on it's way.

Why is it sometimes so difficult to do business in this Country?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Unfortunately, many bricks and mortar establishments will proudly say their higher prices are due to the service they provide over buying from the web.....and then they provide dismal service.


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## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

Or no service at all.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

You should just get a custom winder to do you a bridge pickup to your specs and call Bezdez to see if they have the saddles you need.


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## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

smorgdonkey said:


> You should just get a custom winder to do you a bridge pickup to your specs and call Bezdez to see if they have the saddles you need.


Not necessory order is on it's way.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Wileyone said:


> Why is it sometimes so difficult to do business in this Country?


Don't get me started on this one!!
My wife and I owned and operated a small business for about 12 years. 
We decided that timely, thorough communication and the best, caring customer service we could provide would be our priority. It never let us down. 
Even if we had to say that we didn't know the answer but we would look into and get back to the caller..it was appreciated.

What you wrote in your post says it all... genuine customer service ranks very high.

I am like you...all too often doing business in Canada can be very discouraging/frustrating.

Cheers

Dave


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## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

greco said:


> Don't get me started on this one!!
> My wife and I owned and operated a small business for about 12 years.
> We decided that timely, thorough communication and the best, caring customer service we could provide would be our priority. It never let us down.
> Even if we had to say that we didn't know the answer but we would look into and get back to the caller..it was appreciated.
> ...


What I hate more than anything is the feeling that I am being "brushed off".


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

what were you looking for? .... lots of southern ontario shops i've been in have had tele pickups in stock 
I could make a list right now 

p


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## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

Let's see the list.


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

mojo in oakville has lollar 
the twelfth fret usually have stuff in stock 
most L&M have assorted Duncan an Fender in stock 

I can see few people having saddles ...people rarely change these 
last time I was at Mojo they had them 

p


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

What bothers me most is the lack of available parts like switches, jacks, plugs and screws. To me, having stock of these types of items is low overhead (only a small amount of backroom space) service items that may not yield much profit, but they bring people into the store who may see that Black Beuty on the wall and seed the idea of buying one. They are called "Loss Leaders" in most big retail stores - items that are solely stocked to attract and bring in customers who will buy other things.

Any music store worth it's salt should carry these small convenience items as a service to their customers but few do. They used to, but no more.


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## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

parkhead said:


> mojo in oakville has lollar
> the twelfth fret usually have stuff in stock
> most L&M have assorted Duncan an Fender in stock
> 
> ...


"People rarely change there saddles"?.... On a Telecaster Saddles are everything.


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

Wileyone said:


> "People rarely change there saddles"?.... On a Telecaster Saddles are everything.


yeah you and I know that, but the average consumer does not ... 
so very few places have the saddles in stock unless they cater to the hardcore tele guys 

I sympathize with your situation, but I also know were to go to get specialty stuff 
its part of getting really serious about your setup 

like it or not Teles are about 2% of guitars sold 
& serious tele players are about 30% of tele owners, which is very high 
compared to strats & other guitars but still a very small percentage of a stores daily traffic

I'm glad you found what you were looking for ... 
the other day I had to order a duncan alnico 2 strat pickup, I expect the cooler stuff I want will not be in stock

as far as your local stores not making an effort to get you hooked up 
thats unfortunate for thier mortgage payments 

p


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

bluzfish said:


> What bothers me most is the lack of available parts like switches, jacks, plugs and screws. To me, having stock of these types of items is low overhead (only a small amount of backroom space) service items that may not yield much profit, but they bring people into the store who may see that Black Beuty on the wall and seed the idea of buying one. They are called "Loss Leaders" in most big retail stores - items that are solely stocked to attract and bring in customers who will buy other things.
> 
> Any music store worth it's salt should carry these small convenience items as a service to their customers but few do. They used to, but no more.


I agree, any guitar shop worth patronizing should have enough spare parts for you to assemble a strat or les paul and be able to get to the gig that night 

It might not be the hot rod parts you want but tuners, switches, pickups, nut blanks, saddles, pots & switches need to be in stock ready to go..



p


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

And one more thing... Why does L&M close on Sundays?!?!? I thought this tradition died in the 70s. Do all those guys go to church or what? I haven't been a touring musician for years, but Sunday was the ONE day of the week you could pick up strings, and other items before piling into the bus and travelling to the next gig. And for other musicians with regular day jobs, it's often the best day to do some leisurely guitar shopping. So what is with that?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

bluzfish said:


> And one more thing... Why does L&M close on Sundays?!?!?


We are lucky. The L&M near here (in Cambridge) is open on Sundays. 
It is the only one in Ontario that I have heard of that is open on Sundays.

It is also quite a large store with a selection of (expensive) gear that is not stocked in other L&M's.

Cheers

Dave


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

You're not alone, over Christmas I needed wire, a three way switch and a jack for the Samick Hollowbody I picked up.... none in stock anywhere. And to order the stuff in from my local stores I was looking at almost twice the price without shipping over internet prices. Same thing when I went to get a 4 way switch for the Telecaster, the guys at the Fender dealer had no clue what I was talking about. I kept hearing "you sure you don't mean a 5 way? What do you mean out of phase?"


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

There is nothing that makes me more angry service wise than when a store with a web site, or email contact info, posted all over the internet does not reply to email.

There are 3 music stores in my town, and none of them would stock pickups. But they are all struggling, and they would have so few customers looking for something like that. The best they can offer is to order them, and I can understand that. These stores aren't L&M and they aren't 12th Fret. They aren't in major cities, and they aren't big stores.


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## ledfloyd (Apr 1, 2011)

Wileyone said:


> I am Canadian and proud of it. When I can I like to deal with Canadian Company's. Recently I bought my first Telecaster and wanted to change out the saddles and the Bridge pickup...


Check out Reilander Custom Guitar for pickups. Made in Canada.


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## Lurchin (Jan 13, 2012)

Here's my beef , I hate when I go into a music retailer to order parts (because of course they cant stock stuff like that) , and they have to order from an American supplier because the Canadian supplier has jack all for variety . Im also frustrated with retailers flooding Kijiji and constantly re posting their same ads everyday . Other than that Im a happy guy largetongue


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

this issue is one of the first things i noticed when i moved here from the states. i'm going to tell you exactly why this happens, at least here in toronto. _it's because people here don't vote with their wallet._ the grocery stores here are ridiculous. where i come from, if they acted the way they do here they'd be out of business in a month.
in america we demand good service, or we go somewhere else. in canada, you politely ask for decent service, and after they tell you to screw off you apologize, and buy whatever they have. belive me, if you shut off the money they'll get the message real fast. it might inconvenience you at first, but in the long run you're better off. you work hard for your money. you deserve to not be treated with contempt.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

cheezyridr said:


> this issue is one of the first things i noticed when i moved here from the states. i'm going to tell you exactly why this happens, at least here in toronto. _it's because people here don't vote with their wallet._ the grocery stores here are ridiculous. where i come from, if they acted the way they do here they'd be out of business in a month.
> in america we demand good service, or we go somewhere else. in canada, you politely ask for decent service, and after they tell you to screw off you apologize, and buy whatever they have. belive me, if you shut off the money they'll get the message real fast. it might inconvenience you at first, but in the long run you're better off. you work hard for your money. you deserve to not be treated with contempt.


I have said it here many times in the past. The selection in the stores and availability of stores in the States is insane. There was not much I could not find when I needed it. Grocery stores had ten times the selection, hardware stores, electronics, you name it. The same stores as well. Walmart, Home Depot, Lowe's etc etc. No comparison in items offered.


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## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I have said it here many times in the past. The selection in the stores and availability of stores in the States is insane. There was not much I could not find when I needed it. Grocery stores had ten times the selection, hardware stores, electronics, you name it. The same stores as well. Walmart, Home Depot, Lowe's etc etc. No comparison in items offered.


I really don't care about "Walmart, Home Depot, Lowe's etc". Or any of the Big Box Stores. I have been to all of them in the States and really didn't notice much difference. What would be nice is to walk into a Canadian Guitar store and them actually have what I am looking for. Or at least offer to order it for me.


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## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

cheezyridr said:


> this issue is one of the first things i noticed when i moved here from the states. i'm going to tell you exactly why this happens, at least here in toronto. _it's because people here don't vote with their wallet._ the grocery stores here are ridiculous. where i come from, if they acted the way they do here they'd be out of business in a month.
> in america we demand good service, or we go somewhere else. in canada, you politely ask for decent service, and after they tell you to screw off you apologize, and buy whatever they have. belive me, if you shut off the money they'll get the message real fast. it might inconvenience you at first, but in the long run you're better off. you work hard for your money. you deserve to not be treated with contempt.


I think it would be nice if people in Toronto voted with their Brain. Then maybe we wouldn't have another liberal government in this Province.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

We're pretty lucky here. The biggest music store in town has a really good selection of hardware to choose from.
They also stock pickups, though a limited choice.

I've gone in there for a spring for a Strat trem, and walked out with an Epi DOT to boot.
That's proof to the point of stocking your shelves with the little things that players need and you'll sell a lot more.

Last year, for my sisters birthday, she wanted a wooden laundry hamper.
I scoured the net for one and saw that Home Depot had them for sale that she was looking for.
I tried to order online and was prompted that they weren't available in Canada. Huh?
I went to the local HD store and the sales person at the service desk looked at me like I had three heads.
I called the 800 number for customer relations for HD for Canada and they told me that the two outfits are totally seperate entities.
What's available in the States wasn't necessarily available here and they couldn't even order it in.
I thought that sucked the big one. I wasn't impressed.
They were even made by the same company that makes light fixtures and patio furniture that they sell in the Canadian stores.


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## Latiator (Jul 18, 2007)

Wileyone said:


> I think it would be nice if people in Toronto voted with their Brain. Then maybe we wouldn't have another liberal government in this Province.


Uh ohh, don't go political......!.....There's a lot of libs on here Wiley. 

One place I've found had a nice selection of accessories (compared to Loan & Persuade) was Cosmos. They carry bridge pieces, screws, covers and what not. I'm not sure of the specific models they keep stock for but I have glanced at the wall harbouring these items.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Wileyone said:


> What would be nice is to walk into a Canadian Guitar store and them actually have what I am looking for. Or at least offer to order it for me.


I think part of this problem is a price issue. I talked about wanting to by an branded Epiphone LP case on another thread. None of the music stores I tried were interested in getting me what I wanted. The cases were $89 at the Guitar Center in the states so I ended up buying one on-line. Total cost $129 all-in to my door. I'm guessing that the music stores here would not sell enough of a particular product to warrant bringing any in in quantity, which is how the bigger store keep their prices down. I did let the stores know that I did have to shop in the states to get the product I wanted but they really didn't care. Not a great way to run a business IMO.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Guitar101 said:


> I think part of this problem is a price issue. I talked about wanting to by an branded Epiphone LP case on another thread. None of the music stores I tried were interested in getting me what I wanted. The cases were $89 at the Guitar Center in the states so I ended up buying one on-line. Total cost $129 all-in to my door. I'm guessing that the music stores here would not sell enough of a particular product to warrant bringing any in in quantity, which is how the bigger store keep their prices down. I did let the stores know that I did have to shop in the states to get the product I wanted but they really didn't care. Not a great way to run a business IMO.


I don't claim to know a ton about how guitar stores operate. My friend opened one in town though, so when I hang out in there I watch a lot of transactions with the customers. I can tell you exactly how a transaction for the case you mention would go. Being that the small stores in town are pretty limited with what brands they can carry, they would likely end up getting that case for not much less than what somewhere like Guitar Centre would sell it for. Add taxes and their cut, and the price ends up being higher. They give the customer the price, they say 'thanks', leave, and buy it online because they don't want to pay more. 

It's a tough business, especially when most of these small stores can't afford to carry the bigger product lines, which is what gets a lot of 'average' customers into the store. I do what I can to support the local stores buying strings and cables, getting repairs etc from them. Those are higher priced than say L&M, but L&M is a 40 minute drive for me so it evens out. But since they don't carry many brands, the likelihood of me buying anything new from them is pretty slim.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Wileyone said:


> I really don't care about "Walmart, Home Depot, Lowe's etc". Or any of the Big Box Stores. I have been to all of them in the States and really didn't notice much difference. What would be nice is to walk into a Canadian Guitar store and them actually have what I am looking for. Or at least offer to order it for me.


Same goes for the music stores. There were places I used to hang around in Michigan that had 20 times the inventory then the biggest music stores I have ever been in around here. It's just a fact. Why? I don't know. I am just telling it like I seen and lived it. As far as the big box stores. Not sure which ones you were in but the ones I used to frequent had tons more in terms of name brand choice and model choices.

There were tool stores over there that I have never even seen in Canada, anywhere.


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## Petey D (Sep 8, 2011)

*Sorry about the wall 'o' text*

I too have seen red after dealing with terrible customer service at music stores in my neck of the woods, but i've also been fortunate enough to have found good service everywhere I've been too.

I remember shopping for a half stack at Music Pro in Barrie a few years ago, I was trying out a Traynor YCS 100, and the sales people came over and unplugged me. Needless to say I went over to Gilbert Guitars where they encouraged me to "push the tubes" on a Mesa Stilletto. 

D.O.S. Guitars (Now Caperelli) in Barrie was also very very good to me when I was looking to hot-rod my substandard "Signature Series" Les Paul. I must have spent three or four hours in their shop trying out pretty much every type of pick-up they had in stock, and then when I came to pick up my guitar after the install, come to find out they'd dressed and leveled the frets and tweaked the truss rod for no additional charge. 

Here in Trenton, Riverside music is terrible, for some reason, every time I've asked to try something out, the proprietor has tried to plug me into a PA. Ardens Music here is has no stock of parts to speak of, and the staff generally behave as if they'd rather you just left. You pretty much have to pry info from them, and getting them to talk to you about repairs/servicing, warranty or otherwise is like pulling teeth.

I feel fortunate to have a shop like Arpeggio's here in Trenton. They take very good care of me, always willing to offer advise, and If they don't have what you want, they will order it for you no hesitation. Great shop, great people.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

Yup. I hate it. Especially paying 10$ to ship something like a 3 way switch or braided wire from the states. No one carries caps, pots (GC does now), switches etc. 

I'm glad I gave J S Moore a try cuz now I can get great pick ups in Canada. 

We really need a stew Mac or an all parts type store up here. Would make stuff a lot easier.

As well, there is a huge lack of great guitar techs and amp techs here too. Especially here in Edmonton.


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## Lurchin (Jan 13, 2012)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Same goes for the music stores. There were places I used to hang around in Michigan


100% with you there . In Michignan , EVERY ,music store I've gone into , big or small have tried to bend over backwards to help and answer any questions , very friendly and social . Go into a music store in the Niagara region and get the evil eye if you talk about anything technical or obtaining parts , there are a couple of stores that might help but the majority dont give a crap about you . The other pisser is when they stare you down making you feel like your invading their territory , you boys in the region know where Im talking about , I'm not naming names , but there is more than one place like that around here , makes me want to whip out a wad of cash and slap em in the face with it and say C ya ignorant prick. Customer relations should be #1 priority , without customers no $


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

blam said:


> Yup. I hate it. Especially paying 10$ to ship something like a 3 way switch or braided wire from the states. No one carries caps, pots (GC does now), switches etc.
> 
> I'm glad I gave J S Moore a try cuz now I can get great pick ups in Canada.
> 
> ...


I am trying to get a lot of this stuff in. Pricing will be as close to anything out there. Shipping will not be crazy. Have a shipment coming in today or tomorrow. Basically the quicker the stuff goes out the door the more I can bring in. The wiring kits are a nice little package. Will be getting those in late next week some time


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## Orlach (Jan 9, 2012)

cheezyridr said:


> this issue is one of the first things i noticed when i moved here from the states. i'm going to tell you exactly why this happens, at least here in toronto. _it's because people here don't vote with their wallet._ the grocery stores here are ridiculous. where i come from, if they acted the way they do here they'd be out of business in a month.
> in america we demand good service, *or we go somewhere else*. in canada, you politely ask for decent service, and after they tell you to screw off you apologize, and buy whatever they have. belive me, if you shut off the money they'll get the message real fast. it might inconvenience you at first, but in the long run you're better off. you work hard for your money. you deserve to not be treated with contempt.


I don't disagree with what you said, but the sticking point there is "or we go somewhere else." Here, there is no next store down the street. Or in the same city. Or province. If we want something offbeat, our options are to order it through a store, or order it ourselves from the US. Sadly, the latter is usually cheaper and quicker.

This goes in all industries, pretty much. A few years ago, I wanted a particular computer for my bike. It was made by Cateye, the biggest manufacturer of bike computers, but not one of the eight Cateye dealers in the province carried it. (In fact, out of a lineup of about 18 computers, the combined dealers here only carried six). I tried to order it from a few places in town, but the first store got the order wrong (and then tried to charge me for it anyways), the second one said they couldn't do special orders, and the third one quoted me $120 and nine months! I ended up ordering it from the US for $53, and it was in my hands in less than two weeks.

If there was a store that carried these things, or that could order them in a timely manner, then I would have marched there in an instant--but we don't have the option.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I am trying to get a lot of this stuff in. Pricing will be as close to anything out there. Shipping will not be crazy. Have a shipment coming in today or tomorrow. Basically the quicker the stuff goes out the door the more I can bring in. The wiring kits are a nice little package. Will be getting those in late next week some time


 yeah, i saw a bunch of the new stuff in the shop there. for smaller guys like yourself its completely understandable how difficult it is to start stocking a lot of product on hand as it can get rather expensive. I keep a small stash at home enough for 1-2 extra guitars and even that is a bit pricey.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Orlach said:


> I don't disagree with what you said, but the sticking point there is "or we go somewhere else." Here, there is no next store down the street. Or in the same city. Or province. If we want something offbeat, our options are to order it through a store, or order it ourselves from the US. Sadly, the latter is usually cheaper and quicker.
> 
> This goes in all industries, pretty much. A few years ago, I wanted a particular computer for my bike. It was made by Cateye, the biggest manufacturer of bike computers, but not one of the eight Cateye dealers in the province carried it. (In fact, out of a lineup of about 18 computers, the combined dealers here only carried six). I tried to order it from a few places in town, but the first store got the order wrong (and then tried to charge me for it anyways), the second one said they couldn't do special orders, and the third one quoted me $120 and nine months! I ended up ordering it from the US for $53, and it was in my hands in less than two weeks.
> 
> If there was a store that carried these things, or that could order them in a timely manner, then I would have marched there in an instant--but we don't have the option.


Well, guitar wise we do have a large store with a lot of inventory in Long and Mcquade. But not all cities/areas can support one. Our cities are far apart, with many small towns too small to support a store like that in between.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

blam said:


> yeah, i saw a bunch of the new stuff in the shop there. for smaller guys like yourself its completely understandable how difficult it is to start stocking a lot of product on hand as it can get rather expensive. I keep a small stash at home enough for 1-2 extra guitars and even that is a bit pricey.


I will continue to pick away at it month by month. Hopefully there is a need and people will take advantage of it


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

blam said:


> Yup. I hate it. Especially paying 10$ to ship something like a 3 way switch or braided wire from the states. No one carries caps, pots (GC does now), switches etc.
> 
> I'm glad I gave J S Moore a try cuz now I can get great pick ups in Canada.
> 
> ...


Brian:

To get the kind of stuff that you're talking about in this city it really helps to know where to go. For example, in the past I've been stuck for fret wire or bone nut blanks and have always been able to find these kinds of "supplies" at either Avenue or the Acoustic Music Shop. I just put together a partsquire and was able to find most of what I needed right here. I bought CTS pots and Sprauge caps from Chuck at C4. I could have bought a Fender bridge and saddles, tuners, jack etc. here also, but decided to go with Glendale and I wouldn't expect anyone in town to carry that line. Point is, you need to know who has the goods.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

funny you should mention tools. every time the local gives me an assignment into a shop i haven't been in before, the clock starts to tick. sooner or later there are 3 or 4 guys digging through my tool box wondering what these tools are, that they've never seen before. it's been a topic of interest everywhere i've gone so far.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

Swervin55 said:


> Brian:
> 
> To get the kind of stuff that you're talking about in this city it really helps to know where to go. For example, in the past I've been stuck for fret wire or bone nut blanks and have always been able to find these kinds of "supplies" at either Avenue or the Acoustic Music Shop. I just put together a partsquire and was able to find most of what I needed right here. I bought CTS pots and Sprauge caps from Chuck at C4. I could have bought a Fender bridge and saddles, tuners, jack etc. here also, but decided to go with Glendale and I wouldn't expect anyone in town to carry that line. Point is, you need to know who has the goods.


cool, thanks. that's good to know. I always end up doing bulk orders from the states and "plan ahead" if you will. I've bought parts from Avenue before but they can be hit or miss.


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## -=Sc0rch=- (Mar 28, 2010)

I'm frustrated at this too here in halifax. I have a few places to get certain things like caps and quality wire, but if you look for something specific, yer outta luck most of the time. That's why I got a bit smarter and buy stuff in bulk. I'm always doing rewires and shielding jobs, sometimes two to three a week. I had to buy most of my pots and other parts from retailers in the states. One of the parts strats i built last year was totally from parts I HAD to buy from the states, nothing in canada for neck, body, pickups, etc..... 

Pretty bad though when a certain sales rep friend at L&M called me recently to see if I have a certain cap and pot in my parts bin because some locally famous guitar player is there looking a part they didn't have. lol !!!


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## holyman (Dec 22, 2009)

L&M is closed on Sundays (for the most part) so the employees can have time with their families. People who work there often gig on Fridays and Saturdays and so not having to work on Sundays means a significant increase in their quality of lives. The owner Jack Long feels that employees need Sundays off to spend time with their families. I can only imagine how a company putting the interests of their employees over the interests of their customers must offend you. You must be happy to know that some store are now opening on Sundays. 

Some people on this board have such an inflated sense of self-importance it is almost comical. It is so easy to bitch about some poor wage slave not giving you the service you think you deserve. Never mind that your unrelenting demands for lower and lower prices have helped create a retail sector where the average employee cannot make enough to survive. Retail employees have no benefits, no security, no union, and really shitty pay as well. So why should they care about you? Its not like you care about them. 

L&M gets all sorts of petty criticism on this board. But criticizing them for not treating their employees shitty enough... all I can do is laugh. Maybe they should have to give out home numbers so they can be reached at all hours in case you need a pick or something.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

holyman said:


> L&M is closed on Sundays (for the most part) so the employees can have time with their families. People who work there often gig on Fridays and Saturdays and so not having to work on Sundays means a significant increase in their quality of lives. The owner Jack Long feels that employees need Sundays off to spend time with their families. I can only imagine how a company putting the interests of their employees over the interests of their customers must offend you. You must be happy to know that some store are now opening on Sundays.
> 
> Some people on this board have such an inflated sense of self-importance it is almost comical. It is so easy to bitch about some poor wage slave not giving you the service you think you deserve. Never mind that your unrelenting demands for lower and lower prices have helped create a retail sector where the average employee cannot make enough to survive. Retail employees have no benefits, no security, no union, and really shitty pay as well. So why should they care about you? Its not like you care about them.
> 
> L&M gets all sorts of petty criticism on this board. But criticizing them for not treating their employees shitty enough... all I can do is laugh. Maybe they should have to give out home numbers so they can be reached at all hours in case you need a pick or something.


Interesting take on it


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

I've never been to Newfoundland, but Sunday opening is the "the norm" for most stores around here, other than music stores. I think the OP was pointing out the difference between "music stores" and "all the other stores".



holyman said:


> L&M is closed on Sundays (for the most part) so the employees can have time with their families. People who work there often gig on Fridays and Saturdays and so not having to work on Sundays means a significant increase in their quality of lives. The owner Jack Long feels that employees need Sundays off to spend time with their families. I can only imagine how a company putting the interests of their employees over the interests of their customers must offend you. You must be happy to know that some store are now opening on Sundays.
> 
> Some people on this board have such an inflated sense of self-importance it is almost comical. It is so easy to bitch about some poor wage slave not giving you the service you think you deserve. Never mind that your unrelenting demands for lower and lower prices have helped create a retail sector where the average employee cannot make enough to survive. Retail employees have no benefits, no security, no union, and really shitty pay as well. So why should they care about you? Its not like you care about them.
> 
> L&M gets all sorts of petty criticism on this board. But criticizing them for not treating their employees shitty enough... all I can do is laugh. Maybe they should have to give out home numbers so they can be reached at all hours in case you need a pick or something.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

First off, I have all the respect in the world for the employees of our L&M stores here in Edmonton. They are all a bunch of great guys who have always done everything in their power to make sure I am a happy customer - everything I could expect from them and sometimes more. They are knowlegable, friendly and often very patient and respectful of my occasional frustration for not being able to get what I want.

That being said, I also respect the reason holyman says is the pupose that L&M closes on Sundays. However, this is not the 1950s where people work 9 to 5 on weekdays only. This has become a 24 hour world and people work days, nights and weekends. Most retailers recognize this and are open for as many hours as is economically feasable. This is not only a service to their customers but a self-serving purpose for themselves to have as many customers passing through their store as possible.

I sometimes long for the days when all stores were open Monday to Saturday and maybe late on Thursday and Friday. That worked when the rest of the world worked around that kind of schedule. These days, we work not only our 40 hours per week (days, nights and weekends), but usually more like 50 or more. Squeezing all our personal time into 2 days off on varying days of the week means we have to be flexible. Eliminating Sundays from a day job musician's available time to do some shopping in his natural element often means no shopping time at all.

I think it would be well worth L&M's while to consider rescheduling staff to be able to stay open 7 days a week the same way almost all other retailers do.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

holyman said:


> L&M is closed on Sundays (for the most part) so the employees can have time with their families. People who work there often gig on Fridays and Saturdays and so not having to work on Sundays means a significant increase in their quality of lives. The owner Jack Long feels that employees need Sundays off to spend time with their families. I can only imagine how a company putting the interests of their employees over the interests of their customers must offend you. You must be happy to know that some store are now opening on Sundays.
> 
> Some people on this board have such an inflated sense of self-importance it is almost comical. It is so easy to bitch about some poor wage slave not giving you the service you think you deserve. Never mind that your unrelenting demands for lower and lower prices have helped create a retail sector where the average employee cannot make enough to survive. Retail employees have no benefits, no security, no union, and really shitty pay as well. So why should they care about you? Its not like you care about them.
> 
> L&M gets all sorts of petty criticism on this board. But criticizing them for not treating their employees shitty enough... all I can do is laugh. Maybe they should have to give out home numbers so they can be reached at all hours in case you need a pick or something.


i'm laughing too. at your post. i have swiss cheez in my fridge with less holes in it.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

Wileyone said:


> cheezyridr said:
> 
> 
> > this issue is one of the first things i noticed when i moved here from the states. i'm going to tell you exactly why this happens, at least here in toronto. _it's because people here don't vote with their wallet._ the grocery stores here are ridiculous. where i come from, if they acted the way they do here they'd be out of business in a month.
> ...


Toronto elected Rob Ford as mayor so your brainless hypothesis may be correct.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Aww cmon, hardas., I know he started it but that was a couple of pages ago leave it be or take it to the political forum 

While I think holyman's argument is junk, and his screen name makes me laugh after reading the post, I DO think it would be great if Jack Long would stand on principal and stay closed Sundays. I suppose a counter argument would be that if they're going to be the 'big boys' in Canada, and take business away from other places/mom n pops, they should then provide max access. Do I shop on Sundays? Sure, occasionally. But every retailer essentially *having* to open Sundays is just another sign of the decline of society, as far as I'm concerned, and it has zero nada nothing to do with religion, in case that might enter your mind on reading my post.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Yes it would be nice to be so civilized as to have everything stop for tea at four and close shop on Sundays but those days are long gone. In two days off per week, I personally have to do several loads of laundry (including time waiting for washers and dryers with other apartment dwellers), get groceries, clean the bathroom and kitchen, vacuum, dust, go to the dentist or other appointments, shop for clothes and other necessities and, and, and so on. I have to get those things done first which means my Saturday and usually most of Sunday is spoken for. If I need strings, etc. or to take some leisurely time to gear shop, I need to do that on Sunday.

In Edmonton on Sundays, L&M is closed, Avenue Guitars is closed, Lillo's is closed. Axe Music is open noon to 5:30 but no busses go by there. So I am SOL.

Other people have family obligations as well such as kids' sports and other activities often scheduled for Saturdays.

So to bring this back on topic, where is the customer service from music stores in Edmonton if they're not open on the only day off, for many of us I'm sure, that we can get to them? It just seems to be a strange, antiquated custom only practiced by music stores.

I don't want to beat this to death. I'm just sayin'...


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Someone give me a job!!!! I love the guitar, but I am a shitty player, so I can cover the sunday shift, as I won't be gigging. I am learning the "how to's" of repair and construction, even built one myself. I work for min wage and my training can be paid for (I want to take Mike McConvilles course) as I am an injured worker on WSIB, which really sucks, as I have been productive all my life and boredom is killing me. I can't put in long hours every week, but I WANT to work and will go the extra mile for a customer.

Any Takers?.....Please!!!!


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I've worked in the mining industry for many years, all of it shiftwork.
I've worked more weekends than I care to count. No biggie, I still get days off.

L&M is in a service industry, that needs to provide access to its customers.
If that means to have to be open on Sunday, so be it.
The employee would get another day off in the week, and I'm sure that it would rotate through the staff,
who would have to work a weekend through the month.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

keto said:


> Aww cmon, hardas., I know he started it but that was a couple of pages ago leave it be or take it to the political forum


Fair enough, but if he was YOUR mayor you'd need to vent too!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> i'm laughing too. at your post. i have swiss cheez in my fridge with less holes in it.


Voted *"Most Universally Useful Post for 2012"* 

Congrats *cheez*yridr...coincidence??

Cheers

Dave


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Like it or not, Sunday openings have been a part of life for many years now. It's unusual not to see a store open. We operate 7 days a week. People expect it.


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## beatles1909 (Jan 13, 2011)

Wileyone said:


> I am Canadian and proud of it. When I can I like to deal with Canadian Company's. Recently I bought my first Telecaster and wanted to change out the saddles and the Bridge pickup. I called 4 retailers within a 40k radius and e-mailed another 7. Not one of them had a Bridge pickup for a Tele in stock. Mind you I only heard back from 3 out of 7 e-mails (it's been a week).
> 
> Come on guy's it's a Telecaster and no one has a bridge pickup... or replacement saddles... And no one even offered to order anything for me.
> I e-mailed one Company South of the border and an hour later I received a "detailed" e-mail with suggestions and prices. I decided to phone them and now my order is in the Mail and on it's way.
> ...


I am also proudly Canadian, and want to shop at home. problem is none of the retailers give a darn! I walked away from buying a Gibby Les Paul Standard because of bad customer attitude at a well known music retailer..(I guess people in our early 60's shouldn't be buying instruments?)

Also Everytime I want to upgrade some parts etc. there is never anything in stock. I won't even get into my lefty rant except to say (to any retailers reading this) lefty items don't sell because you never have stock & we know this therefore we buy items on ebay who seem to get lefty parts no problem. It amazes me how much money retailers miss due to non Canadian internet sales.


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Like it or not, Sunday openings have been a part of life for many years now. It's unusual not to see a store open. We operate 7 days a week. People expect it.


Yeah, even if they were open !2-5 or something, it would be a lot better. Mow many musos are up before noon anyway)


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Comparing Canadian companies to those of the USA, just take a look at the websites. If I'm interested in a product, I'll click on GC, MF or Sweetwater. If the product is not on their websites, it's likely a very obscure product or part or it's not available from the manufacturer yet. Here is a case in point.

Fender has come out with the new version of the Super Champ XD (now SC X2) amp at Namm last week. A quick check at MF and there it is already. Check L & M and it's not there. Check on all Fender amps and you get Fender, Traynor, Orange, etc. amps. My point is if they can't even get new product up when it's available and can't get their search engine to work properly, what in the heck do you expect from them in other aspects of their business? Obviously, problems; just like their lame website.

I would be embarrassed to have a site that was so backwards compared to the rest of the industry.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Comparing Canadian companies to those of the USA, just take a look at the websites. If I'm interested in a product, I'll click on GC, MF or Sweetwater. If the product is not on their websites, it's likely a very obscure product or part or it's not available from the manufacturer yet. Here is a case in point.
> 
> Fender has come out with the new version of the Super Champ XD (now SC X2) amp at Namm last week. A quick check at MF and there it is already. Check L & M and it's not there. Check on all Fender amps and you get Fender, Traynor, Orange, etc. amps. My point is if they can't even get new product up when it's available and can't get their search engine to work properly, what in the heck do you expect from them in other aspects of their business? Obviously, problems; just like their lame website.
> 
> I would be embarrassed to have a site that was so backwards compared to the rest of the industry.


To be fair, compared to other online retailers, L&M's web site is very new. They are still working out kinks, and they don't have the resources to update it that a massive chain like Musician's Friend has. They realize they need to be competitive in this department though, and are at least working on it. 2 years ago they had nothing.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

You should try building a guitar, and only buying local.. its impossible, especially if your looking for certain parts which most builders are...I had to buy from either Stewmac or Ebay, , a great selection, you can price shop, sent too your door..I really dont even try anymore to drive from one store to the next looking for guitar parts..


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*guitar part*



> To be fair, compared to other online retailers, L&M's web site is very new. They are still working out kinks, and they don't have the resources to update it that a massive chain like Musician's Friend has. They realize they need to be competitive in this department though, and are at least working on it. 2 years ago they had nothing.



its getting better but i dont think they will ever have a web site like the big 3..I was looking for a cabt. didnt see it on the web site, so i email them and they tell me its not on line , call and place the order.

now the problem i have with the cabinet not being on line , is i cannot pay using paypal..I sell items on Ebay to fund my gear buying from Long and Mcquade.. now i may have to buy it from another dealer,because of there limited stock on line.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

You know what? If you want to compete with the big boys, you have to be one of the big boys. Being Canadian doesn't allow you to be inferior and expect your customers to make allowances for that. You're not the CBC. If your customers flock to your American cometition, you are not legitimate competition to them.

L&M has the advantage of a favourable dollar, an established customer base and the ability to mitigate duties and brokerage fees, not to mention exploitation of our advantages in the Free Trade Agreement. Granted we are only a ~30 million population, but I doubt if any manufacturer would turn their back on a similar market like California or New York. L&M by far has a stranglehold on the mass Canadian market as well as being a major distributer and yet they tend to just whimper along satisfied to tell their customers that "You can't get there from here".

While it is second nature for anyone to be a critic, if I was a shareholder in L&M, I would certainly ask the CEO why he hasn't effectively steered the company into the dominating modern business model demonstrated by their competition. You have to spend money to make money.
It's not like I give a damn what L&M does with their business. I'll buy from Musician's Friend, Guitar Centre, Sweetwater or a host of other American specialty companies if L&M can't accommodate my needs. I just wish they would wake up to the 21st century and make my life easier while still being proud to buy from a Canadian retailer.

I'll still spend my money at L&M because of their great "bricks and mortar" stores and employees. But I really feel they are missing the boat transitioning into modern retailing.

If you read my whole rant, thanks. I feel better now...


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

bluzfish said:


> You know what? If you want to compete with the big boys, you have to be one of the big boys. *Being Canadian doesn't allow you to be inferior and expect your customers to make allowances for that. You're not the CBC.*


AHAHAHAA I had to leave the room to find a kleenex to wipe the tears out of my eyes from laughing so hard. Be tough to beat that one for 'quote of the year 2012'


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Rick31797 said:


> its getting better but i dont think they will ever have a web site like the big 3..I was looking for a cabt. didnt see it on the web site, so i email them and they tell me its not on line , call and place the order.
> 
> now the problem i have with the cabinet not being on line , is i cannot pay using paypal..I sell items on Ebay to fund my gear buying from Long and Mcquade.. now i may have to buy it from another dealer,because of there limited stock on line.


Judging by what I have seen so far, it's hard not to agree. The site functions, but it's a flashback to the early 90's or something. The whole thing needs remodelled, and as mentioned in my previous post I don't think they have the resources to do it. I can't see them ever having a site that competes with some of the big American stores unless they really decide to focus on it.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> To be fair, compared to other online retailers, L&M's web site is very new. They are still working out kinks, and they don't have the resources to update it that a massive chain like Musician's Friend has. They realize they need to be competitive in this department though, and are at least working on it. 2 years ago they had nothing.


TDU: It doesn't take two years to get a good working site if you want to. One of the other points I mentioned is the slow reaction to new products. I mentioned the new Super Champ X2. Keep checking to see how long it takes for them to get it on their site.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

bluzfish said:


> You know what? If you want to compete with the big boys, you have to be one of the big boys. Being Canadian doesn't allow you to be inferior and expect your customers to make allowances for that. You're not the CBC. If your customers flock to your American cometition, you are not legitimate competition to them.
> 
> L&M has the advantage of a favourable dollar, an established customer base and the ability to mitigate duties and brokerage fees, not to mention exploitation of our advantages in the Free Trade Agreement. Granted we are only a ~30 million population, but I doubt if any manufacturer would turn their back on a similar market like California or New York. L&M by far has a stranglehold on the mass Canadian market as well as being a major distributer and yet they tend to just whimper along satisfied to tell their customers that "You can't get there from here".
> 
> ...


All good points. It doesn't cost that much to put up a decent site and keep it running properly. I know, we did it with our company last year and we have much smaller resources than L & M.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> All good points. It doesn't cost that much to put up a decent site and keep it running properly. I know, we did it with our company last year and we have much smaller resources than L & M.


Does your company have the traffic and inventory that long and mcquade has? Sorry, but you are wrong on costs and resources when it comes to a site with that kind of traffic. It can be extremely expensive. Even a site with the traffic GC gets can be expensive and L&M gets more traffic than it.


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## Wileyone (Jul 23, 2011)

Steadfastly said:


> All good points. It doesn't cost that much to put up a decent site and keep it running properly. I know, we did it with our company last year and we have much smaller resources than L & M.


A good website with on line ordering in Canada is great thing. I like L&M's website. The catch is very rarely do they have anything in stock. If you want to do buisness online at least have the items listed available.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> Does your company have the traffic and inventory that long and mcquade has? Sorry, but you are wrong on costs and resources when it comes to a site with that kind of traffic. It can be extremely expensive. Even a site with the traffic GC gets can be expensive and L&M gets more traffic than it.


It would only take someone full time to maintain it and keep the products up-to-date. Or perhaps one and a half. Once the site is up and running, it's a matter of just adjusting pricing and adding new products and deleting the old. There are ways of doing this quickly as well. You don't have to do it all by hand, one at a time. L & M and others with crappy websites, likely don't have the right personnel or the insight and will to set it up properly and keep it up-to-date. They are behind the times and need to catch up. They are losing sales and market share to the smart ones who see the ways sales are changing in the music business and business in general. We wouldn't even be having a thread like this 10 years ago or perhaps even 5 years ago.


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## MCKBC (Aug 22, 2011)

Good thread. Newcomer to this lovely country. Trying to settle down and make the most contribution along the way so on more than one occasion I ended up with similar frustrations trying to buy local... One of my pet peeves is how long it takes to ship stuff when you buy items from from a number of online retailers. 

Example 1... if you're buying books Amazon.ca sells at a huge price hike compared to Amazon.com in US. In addition their shipping times are horrible. I found that I can order the same books from down south and choose the fastest shipment mode and the total price will come to about the same and I will get the books in 3 days as opposed to 2 weeks... Go figure. And this is the same company mind you. 

Example 2... new in country, needed a matress for my daughter. Being lazy I ordered online from Bricks. At that time I did not yet have local credit cards. Bricks online people took my order but did not process my overseas credit card. They told me to go to their nearest store and pay there. I said ok and went. Nearest Bricks store also did not want my card. I had been using this same card in Canada without any problems. They did not even try. Apparently they have a policy against foreign issued cards. Not many tourists shop there I suppose. In desperation I offered to pay cash. They said since my order it already in the system as credit card payment they can't make the change. I felt as cared for as a donkey's ass and simply told them to cancel my order and walked out... Sears was happy to get my money and deliver the mattress. 

Anyways, we love it here and hope it will be home forever but in the meanwhile the retailers are driving us semi-mad often enough... Cheers.


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## Motley (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't have any guitar specific info, but that is one thing I found when I moved to Canada in 07, when it comes to buying stuff online Canada is just very behind the times, oh and with cell phones too. It's not specifically a music shop think I now think that Canadian retailers just don't bother to try and compete with the states.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

Wileyone said:


> A good website with on line ordering in Canada is great thing. I like L&M's website. The catch is very rarely do they have anything in stock. If you want to do buisness online at least have the items listed available.


I HATE the L&M website....it is incredibly amateur.... the search is TERRIBLE....their online stock does not reflect a lot of their actual stocked items so you have to go to the store anyways.... as well, their processing times are quite slow once you make a purchase...

most big online stores will ship items same day if ordered before 4pm usually. L&M is 2-3 business days before it even ships. LAMusic is the same.

axemusic's website is just as bad. very amateur....

the only useful thing about L&M's website is using it to find stock in your local stores. i do admit this is a very handy feature, but having said that, the stores sometimes carry items not found on the website.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> It would only take someone full time to maintain it and keep the products up-to-date. Or perhaps one and a half. Once the site is up and running, it's a matter of just adjusting pricing and adding new products and deleting the old. There are ways of doing this quickly as well. You don't have to do it all by hand, one at a time. L & M and others with crappy websites, likely don't have the right personnel or the insight and will to set it up properly and keep it up-to-date. They are behind the times and need to catch up. They are losing sales and market share to the smart ones who see the ways sales are changing in the music business and business in general. We wouldn't even be having a thread like this 10 years ago or perhaps even 5 years ago.


I don't deny any of your points about how important it is. I do web design work though, and unfortunately a lot of the businesses just don't see that or don't want to spend the money. While their site is crappy by todays standards, I can guarantee it still cost a ton to setup and that the costs for hosting are high due to their traffic. You don't have a site like that, that does commerce transactions sitting on shared hosting. People generally underestimate programming and hosting expenses for really large sites. Again, ask GC what the expenses are just running this forum.

They are ok with their physical locations because they are the only game in town. As people buy online more and more though, they are going to take a huge hit at some point. They would be much better to invest in their site now, and work out the kinks early, then try to play catch up. Well, they are already playing catch up... but the difference is at this point if they really worked out in they COULD catch up. another 1-2 years down the road they won't if they keep the same crappy site.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

torndownunit said:


> I don't deny any of your points about how important it is. I do web design work though, and unfortunately a lot of the businesses just don't see that or don't want to spend the money. While their site is crappy by todays standards, I can guarantee it still cost a ton to setup and that the costs for hosting are high due to their traffic. You don't have a site like that, that does commerce transactions sitting on shared hosting. People generally underestimate programming and hosting expenses for really large sites. Again, ask GC what the expenses are just running this forum.
> 
> They are ok with their physical locations because they are the only game in town. As people buy online more and more though, they are going to take a huge hit at some point. They would be much better to invest in their site now, and work out the kinks early, then try to play catch up. Well, they are already playing catch up... but the difference is at this point if they really worked out in they COULD catch up. another 1-2 years down the road they won't if they keep the same crappy site.


Time is really the cost involved. If someone had to pay me for the time I put in on this site, and the GC Gear Site, it would not be cheap, even at a moderate hourly rate. But the other costs can add up as well. Software, upgrades, security measures. The cost of hosting goes with traffic. I started out on a plan that was around $60 a year. I am now at $2200 a year. This one should hold me for the next 5-8 years at least. But the man hours is what kills you. I get emails everyday to help with lost passwords, "I can't post here" my account is locked etc etc. You have to have someone to respond to all that on a timely basis. 

So yes, it can be expensive once you start to get into larger traffic lanes.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Time is really the cost involved. If someone had to pay me for the time I put in on this site, and the GC Gear Site, it would not be cheap, even at a moderate hourly rate. But the other costs can add up as well. Software, upgrades, security measures. The cost of hosting goes with traffic. I started out on a plan that was around $60 a year. I am now at $2200 a year. This one should hold me for the next 5-8 years at least. But the man hours is what kills you. I get emails everyday to help with lost passwords, "I can't post here" my account is locked etc etc. You have to have someone to respond to all that on a timely basis.
> 
> So yes, it can be expensive once you start to get into larger traffic lanes.


Scott: Thanks for letting us know what your costs are. I hope you are able to recoup them. You remind me of my brother who owned a collection agency years ago. He said if he was paid by the hour, he would be making about $2.25/hour. Now that was 40 years ago, but still, that was not a lot of money.


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

bluzfish said:


> While it is second nature for anyone to be a critic, if I was a shareholder in L&M, I would certainly ask the CEO why he hasn't effectively steered the company into the dominating modern business model demonstrated by their competition. You have to spend money to make money.
> It's not like I give a damn what L&M does with their business. I'll buy from Musician's Friend, Guitar Centre, Sweetwater or a host of other American specialty companies if L&M can't accommodate my needs. I just wish they would wake up to the 21st century and make my life easier while still being proud to buy from a Canadian retailer.


I think they are aware of this model and consciously choose not to adopt it. I do not think the american retailers are as healthy as their well kept websites would lead us to believe. I think there are great opportunities for retailers to meet the needs you guys are describing, however the Canadian market is 10% the size and volume of the US Market and spread over a larger geographic space. 
I also remember when L&M did not increase their stock for Christmas or Have a boxing Day sale, and I'm not that OLD. 


p


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## tapestrymusic (Mar 10, 2009)




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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

tapestrymusic said:


>


Mind if I join you....


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Quick tip for the guys in GTA/SW Ontario:

Besides being a genius at repairs & refins, Mike Spicer of the Peghead in Hamilton has a great selection of parts, including some vintage bits in his used bins. If he doesn't have it, Mike will add it on to his next All Parts/Stu Mac order and your parts can ride for free with whatever else he was ordering anyways. He tends to charge the US list price in CAD, which is pretty fair considering the lack of aggravation.


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## Donavann (Apr 5, 2014)

Well i can tell you how a deal for the situation, you discuss would go. Being that the little shops in city are fairly restricted with http://www.sircomachinery.com/http://www.sircomachinery.com/what manufacturers, they can bring they would likely end up getting that situation for not much less than what somewhere, like Guitar Center would sell it for.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Nothing like walking into a store and getting the "What the hell do you want" vibe. I got that yesterday in Stratford. Maybe he was angry that his junk didn't compare with the LM just down the street. I forsee a "for lease" sign in his window soon. Good products are paramount, but customer service is EVERYTHING


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Part of the problem in Canada, is that there are Canadian distributors between the retailer and the manufacturer. The distributor level doesn't always do a good job of stocking products, and have minimum order sizes and other assortments of rules. The distributor level adds cost, limits the pace of business, and detracts from value. The retailer can be only as good as the distributor level services them. Often one can buy products in the US at retail for only slightly more than Canadian distributor dealer cost. In multiple instances I've been declined access to products by the Canadian distributor, then to be able to buy wholesale through a US distributor, or even US retail at near dealer cost. Then you have Yorkville Sound, a major Canadian distributor representing Gibson and many other big products, that has the same owners as L&M... talk about a conflict of interest and disadvantage to other Canadian retailers. The whole thing seems like a racket, but exists because the Canadian market is so small. Americans know how to do business, we as Canadians need to learn and model their willingness to do business with anyone who brings money to the table,


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## ampjunkie (Jul 30, 2009)

Even when Amazon.ca has added music instruments to its lineup, the pricing can be outrageous compared to Amazon.com.

See this example:

24-pack of Dunlop Jazz III Carbon-fiber picks:
Amazon.ca (via Canadian retailer dealkings -- more like ripoffkings): $32.99
http://www.amazon.ca/Dunlop-Carbon-...=1397050171&sr=8-1&keywords=dunlop+III+carbon

Amazon.com: $8.99 (via Music123)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...keywords=dunlop+jazz+iii+carbon&condition=new

Totally ridiculous!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

ampjunkie said:


> Even when Amazon.ca has added music instruments to its lineup, the pricing can be outrageous compared to Amazon.com.
> 
> See this example:
> 
> ...


I don't even bother looking at Amazon Canada any longer. They just can't compete with Amazon.com.

It's not only ridiculous but a waste of time.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

nkjanssen said:


> Actually, Avenue is open Sundays now. They were originally, then they weren't for a while, and now they are again. So is St. John's and Giovanni's in the west end. Not great shops, but fine for strings, etc.



Good to know. Thanks for the heads up. Now I can get my gear fix any day of the week!


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## lebretonphatz (Apr 18, 2014)

Par for the course. And then there's the limited selection of brands, whether its guitars amps etc. And when products are updated and released in the states we wait at least a year while Canadian distributors continue to sell off their inventories of the previous versions.

The bottom line is we live in a country with a population about the same as California and our market is still dominated by long established brands. I buy my gear in the states whether I drive down to a brick and mortar store or sometimes shop online.


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## dino (Jan 6, 2009)

I have dealt with the 12th fret in Ontario through email and they always respond promptly. I would never give L&M any praise and as far as I am concerned they are no better that a big box store. It seems like everything you need L&M has to order it in and that usually takes a long time. Am I impatient or just living in modern times of one phone call orders and couriers.


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## 59burst (May 27, 2010)

dradlin said:


> Part of the problem in Canada, is that there are Canadian distributors between the retailer and the manufacturer. The distributor level doesn't always do a good job of stocking products, and have minimum order sizes and other assortments of rules. The distributor level adds cost, limits the pace of business, and detracts from value. The retailer can be only as good as the distributor level services them. Often one can buy products in the US at retail for only slightly more than Canadian distributor dealer cost. In multiple instances I've been declined access to products by the Canadian distributor, then to be able to buy wholesale through a US distributor, or even US retail at near dealer cost. Then you have Yorkville Sound, a major Canadian distributor representing Gibson and many other big products, that has the same owners as L&M... talk about a conflict of interest and disadvantage to other Canadian retailers. The whole thing seems like a racket, but exists because the Canadian market is so small. Americans know how to do business, we as Canadians need to learn and model their willingness to do business with anyone who brings money to the table,


Is this the case - that is, a distributor between the manufacturer and retailer - in all industries here in Canada? For audio equipment, sports equipment, clothing, etc?

Great point about the potential conflict of interest regarding Yorkville. I don't suspect them of doing anything unfair, but the optics as you describe the situation are pretty odd.


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## sorbz62 (Nov 15, 2011)

I think major factors in all this are as follows:

1. A relatively low population density.

2. Large monopolies fixing high prices - in all fields. This is completely illegal in most other countries.

3. An underdeveloped web-based trade system.

4. An acceptance by Canadians to all this.

I moved here from the UK last year (am Canadian/ Brit dual national and proud to be both) and noticed how far behind the retail trade is in Canada. In the UK most guitar shops hold a large variety of parts and will order whatever you want, whether that be pots, pickups or massive PA systems. The smallest Mom 'n Pop store has a website and sells everything online. Dealer service is generally fantastic and shops are keen to help everyone. Amazon.co.uk has anything you want and has dealer links with other online businesses. 

What really grinds my gears is the seemingly widespread proliferation of monopolies, who manage to fix prices very high. Now this is not guitar based but cell phones is one issue. The 2 major companies, Rogers and Bell, would be hauled before the courts in the UK with their outrageous pricing. Compared to the UK, I am paying 4 times more here for a much worse service ...... Long distance charges from Toronto to Collingwood?? WTF!! And now they are screaming that other companies are daring to enter their hallowed ground and compete with them! A greater competition would lower prices and the consumer would have much more choice.just before I moved here I came of a long contract and had to buy a simcard for a few months cell phone service. I bought a simcard only - online from a company called Giff Gaff - and got Unlimited data, unlimited calls to anywhere and anyone and unlimited texts ...... All for £15 per month .... That's about $22!!! There was 100% coverage and no hidden costs. Unthinkable here.

I love living here but there are some things (like anywhere, including UK) that really 'grip my shit' as we say in the land of the Angles! I honestly feel like the average Joe here is getting ripped off.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Wileyone said:


> I am Canadian and proud of it. When I can I like to deal with Canadian Company's. Recently I bought my first Telecaster and wanted to change out the saddles and the Bridge pickup. I called 4 retailers within a 40k radius and e-mailed another 7. Not one of them had a Bridge pickup for a Tele in stock. Mind you I only heard back from 3 out of 7 e-mails (it's been a week).
> 
> Come on guy's it's a Telecaster and no one has a bridge pickup... or replacement saddles... And no one even offered to order anything for me.
> I e-mailed one Company South of the border and an hour later I received a "detailed" e-mail with suggestions and prices. I decided to phone them and now my order is in the Mail and on it's way.
> ...


Dude, what city do you live in? I get much, much better service than that from my local shop.

Pickups for a Tele? Saddles? Always in stock and several options at that. These are not exactly exotic items you're looking for.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

dradlin said:


> Part of the problem in Canada, is that there are Canadian distributors between the retailer and the manufacturer. The distributor level doesn't always do a good job of stocking products, and have minimum order sizes and other assortments of rules. The distributor level adds cost, limits the pace of business, and detracts from value. The retailer can be only as good as the distributor level services them.


That is very true. Years ago I was working in a fairly good sized music store and enjoying a bit of a shopping spree so started thinking about putting a midi pickup onto one of my guitars and getting a guitar-synth. It turned out that the store's cost to get that from the distributor was higher than the US retail price. I could have driven to the States and bought it for less, even with paying for gas. I didn't end up doing either, but I was surprised that it was that much of a difference. The stores don't have a chance when their cost is higher than US retail.


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## SCHMUSTIN (Apr 19, 2014)

I live in Red Deer. We have a place called 53rd Street Music and I have not had any problems with them as of yet. I guess it all depends on the store and the people in it 

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk 2


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