# Automation And White Collar Job Losses



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

The sex doll thread got me to thinking about automation and lost jobs. The CBC has an article about automation affecting white collar jobs that I thought was worth sharing:


'As well or better than humans': Automation set for big promotions in white-collar job market


I don't agree with the list of jobs that they say could become automated, but it is an interesting issue. What do the rest of you think - are many white collar jobs also vulnerable to automation or are most white collar jobs going to remain safe for the foreseeable future?


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2017)

I lost my warehouse job due to automation.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm self employed; it would be nice if I could automate myself so I just stay home.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Given the right piece of software, I could put myself out of the job. Or at least reduce my work load by 50%.

I just don't have the 6 figures necessary to hire a programming firm to make it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

jbealsmusic said:


> Given the right piece of software, I could put myself out of the job. Or at least reduce my work load by 50%.
> 
> I just don't have the 6 figures necessary to hire a programming firm to make it.


And that, my friend is the dividing line between what the predictions are, and reality.

That something _could_ be accomplished via some form of automation, or computer-assisted decision-making, is separate from whather a given employer can _afford_, or implement such changes. Much of what gets predicted is predicated on large employers with big investment dollars behind them, such that it can make economic sense for them to make such investments. Now, an awful lot of people do work for large employers. But an awful lot of people _don't_. 

Consider that large grocery chains can afford to have self-checkout kiosks, generally staffed by one person for 4-6 kiosks, who is there to help customers with stuff that won't scan as well as keeping an eye out for possible theft. Could your average convenience store implement that? Not bloody likely. Yes, I suppose the corporation that leases out the franchises might have the cash, but on a store-by-store basis, there just doesn't seem to be an economic rationale to go for something more complicated than one person behind a counter with a cash register.

My brother-in-law used to work on industrial robots for Westinghouse. As he relayed it to me, the robots were great for manufacturing things where the parts to be assembled were provided in standardized form and the actions repetitive. So, you could provide a robotic unit with a matrix of bolts in a standardized unit, with all the bolts oriented exactly the same way, such that picking another one out of the matrix and installing it in an item that arrived at a standardized location in a standardized orientation, could be turned over to a robotic unit. If the algorithm to get the robot to complete the task was simple enough, it was thumbs up for the robot. But you could NOT shove a barrel of bolts at a robot and expect it to employ intelligent artificial vision to recognize where another bolt is, use interpreted tactile feedback, pick it up and orient it properly for installation. I suppose somewhere at one of the high end R&D centers (like Boston Dynamics, that posts the videos of self-balancing mobile robots) that sort of task _could_ be successfully completed, but that's more proof of concept than a product for anyone beyond the U.S. military.

Some things will become more automated. When was the last time you interacted with a bank teller to get a money order? You likely placed your order on line, where all the processing was done by a computer, entered your Paypal number, which did all the relevant financial processing, including conversion to foreign funds and billing, and the item/s were partially prepared for shipping via automation. How many persons were involved int hat transaction? You won't know because you didn't come into direct contact with any. But again, all of that _could _happen, and be turned over to automation, because you were dealing with a large company, and not a Radio Shack or mom & pop record store or music store.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Automations great...but ppl will still find a way to piss away 50% of the benefits of it.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Diablo said:


> Automations great...but ppl will still find a way to piss away 50% of the benefits of it.


Kind of like how a lot of people in North America has smartphones, but poverty is still an issue?


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

jbealsmusic said:


> Given the right piece of software, I could put myself out of the job. Or at least reduce my work load by 50%.
> 
> I just don't have the 6 figures necessary to hire a programming firm to make it.



Hire a university student for a co-op term and get it done at a fraction of the cost.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Budda said:


> Kind of like how a lot of people in North America has smartphones, but poverty is still an issue?



Ever notice how many so-called refugees have smart phones?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

colchar said:


> Ever notice how many so-called refugees have smart phones?


Nope. I've never met a "so-called refugee". 

It's also worth pointing out that Rogers and Bell will gladly put a smartphone in your hands for $0 down, just sign on the dotted line so you can pay them back over the next year or two.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

colchar said:


> Ever notice how many so-called refugees have smart phones?


A group in our home town sponsored a refugee family from Ethiopia. One of the things they provided for them was a smart phone with translation software installed. Now when they are out they can communicate with others. "Where is the bathroom" for instance.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Budda said:


> Nope. I've never met a "so-called refugee".
> 
> It's also worth pointing out that Rogers and Bell will gladly put a smartphone in your hands for $0 down, just sign on the dotted line so you can pay them back over the next year or two.


Also worth noting that there generally aren't landlines in refugee camps.

But let's keep this about automation. 

Whoops, and about white collar jobs. Though I'm not sure what to call service-sector jobs: blue or white. _Pale _blue?


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

colchar said:


> The sex doll thread got me to thinking about automation and lost jobs. The CBC has an article about automation affecting white collar jobs that I thought was worth sharing:
> 
> 
> 'As well or better than humans': Automation set for big promotions in white-collar job market
> ...


LOL on the fact they think there's only an 11% chance that their own job can be automated.

Last I checked robots don't pay taxes so some of the big brains in Govt better start seriously thinking about this shit.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2017)




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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

mhammer said:


> And that, my friend is the dividing line between what the predictions are, and reality.
> 
> That something _could_ be accomplished via some form of automation, or computer-assisted decision-making, is separate from whether a given employer can _afford_, or implement such changes.


Whether or not a business can _afford_ something should not be determined on a whim. It should be the result of a comprehensive cost benefit analysis. One would hope any business considering an investment would first invest the time and money into a proper CBA.

As for the rest of your comment, it definitely relates to the thread but I'm not sure it relates specifically to my comment. The automation I'm referring to is specifically to minimize much of my office/computer work. Tasks which are absolutely necessary for the continued controlled growth of the business, but which are very time consuming due to the limitations of our current platform. I'm certain many of these things _could_ be automated, but I have yet to find a turn-key solution in which they are (at least to my satisfaction; or that doesn't have too many other drawbacks).



colchar said:


> Hire a university student for a co-op term and get it done at a fraction of the cost.


I have had that recommended to us before. Without boring you with the details, the scope and scale of what we're looking for is well beyond the capabilities of a single programmer on a short-term contract. We either need an existing solution modified to our needs, or we need to have something built from the ground up. Both are significant investments. We're currently in talks with a handful of companies regarding our needs and are vetting potential solutions.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

davetcan said:


> Last I checked robots don't pay taxes so some of the big brains in Govt better start seriously thinking about this shit.


I heard that very comment the other day. 
Bill Gates Says Robots Should Be Taxed Like Workers


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

mhammer said:


> I heard that very comment the other day.
> Bill Gates Says Robots Should Be Taxed Like Workers


LOL, wish he and I had a little more in common


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Like glasses?


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Like glasses?


Got those covered ☺


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Budda said:


> Nope. I've never met a "so-called refugee".



When I made the original comment I was thinking of the Jungle in Calais and how every one of the alleged refugees there had a cell phone (the vast majority were actually economic migrants but progressives labelled them all as refugees).


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Automating white collar workers? I think that is amazing - I can not wait. I hope they replace my manager with a robot sooner rather than later. Then all I'd have to do is find the 'off' switch. Or at least the 'mute' switch.


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

We helped a Syrian refugee family resettle in Ottawa as part of a volunteer group. They lived a good life prior to the war and weren't impoverished, they wanted cell phones. Didn't seem strange to me at all. I should mention that literally on day one, the 'man of the house' started shoveling driveways to make money. He's a trained woodworker and can make furniture. I'd like to talk to him about guitars, but his English is really poor still.

A bit off topic, but I like telling people about this family. I think they'll make wonderful contributions to our society.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Again, a refugees-related comment and unfortunately not about how increasing automation threatens the availability and compensation of white-collar jobs (which IS an important topic and shouldn't be ignored), BUT, anyone whose entire extended family has been driven from their homes by conflict or economic hardship, will take great pains to stay in contact with that extended family, if only to find out if they are okay. A guy who rides the morning bus with me regularly, and appears to be from somewhere in the Horn of Africa region, going by his facial features, has rarely NOT been on the phone at 7:00AM when waiting for the bus in the morning. Given the area where he lives, I gather he is communicating with folks back home, and not speaking with his broker.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Ya know, it's just now struck me as funny that they're called 'brokers'. It does make sense though - the more often he calls me, the broker I get.


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

In my opinion, most jobs are going to be lost to software, automation, and robots within a few decades. Some form of universal basic income will be necessary.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

mhammer said:


> I heard that very comment the other day.
> Bill Gates Says Robots Should Be Taxed Like Workers


lol...easy for him to say.
hes notoriously tax avoidant.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Diablo said:


> lol...easy for him to say.
> hes notoriously tax avoidant.


I don't know that he is. But even if he does adopt creative accounting, he's also pretty generous with his money, when it comes to charitable causes. 

All of that said, I think he makes a pretty fair point regarding taxes and automation. The employer thinks almost entirely in terms of their own overhead costs and profitability, and more rarely in terms of the aggregate contribution to the community. Fewer tax-payers = less revenue to provide services. If the number of residents declines, then fewer services are required. But if the number of residents remains stable or grows, and the amount of tax revenue coming in declines, then you've got problems.

So the idea of paying a tax for implementation of various forms of automation is sensible. In terms of costs to the employer, a "robot tax" may be more than they wish to pay, but substantially less than what actual employees might cost them when all compensation costs are tabulated.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

mhammer said:


> I don't know that he is. But even if he does adopt creative accounting, he's also pretty generous with his money, when it comes to charitable causes.
> 
> All of that said, I think he makes a pretty fair point regarding taxes and automation. The employer thinks almost entirely in terms of their own overhead costs and profitability, and more rarely in terms of the aggregate contribution to the community. Fewer tax-payers = less revenue to provide services. If the number of residents declines, then fewer services are required. But if the number of residents remains stable or grows, and the amount of tax revenue coming in declines, then you've got problems.
> 
> So the idea of paying a tax for implementation of various forms of automation is sensible. In terms of costs to the employer, a "robot tax" may be more than they wish to pay, but substantially less than what actual employees might cost them when all compensation costs are tabulated.


I think youre too easy on him. Im surprised you don't care. I recall you being quite indignant over Donald Trumps "creative accounting". Personally, im skeptical of someone like him, or Bono that goes to great lengths to avoid paying taxes while playing the humanitarian philanthropist. YOU KNOW, TAXES THAT PAY FOR SCHOOLS, ROADS, HEALTHCARE AND EMERGENCY SERVICES, AND MANY OTHER LESS ESSENTIAL THINGS, INCLUDING YOURSELF.
Wouldn't we all like to be able to control who gets our tax money? lots of things id like to opt out of just because I don't believe in it or sympathize with it. *imagine if we all could /DID do that.*
Isnt it interesting that Bills foundation pushed for vaccinations worldwide while he owned large holdings in big pharma (Eli-Lilly, Pfizer, GSK, and Merck)? hmmm....donation or investment? NB. these holdings have since been sold off. in the stock market game, this is called "pump and dump".
everything ive seen points to Bill not giving a fuck about the people that made him what he is....a billionaire hypocrite.

Bill could also prove his generosity and love for "the little guy" by making attempts to see that businesses he has a large stake in, don't lock out its workers in labor disputes. Teamsters at Republic Services Strike in McDonough, Georgia
Doesn't sound like a guy that's so determined to slow down the automation of a workforce.
Bill Gates...lol....Next you'll be posting links to Putin advocating on behalf of better human rights and transparency in government.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Diablo said:


> Wouldn't we all like to be able to control who gets our tax money? lots of things id like to opt out of just because I don't believe in it or sympathize with it. *imagine if we all could /DID do that.*


Everything would turn to s*** faster than you can say H & R Block. 
"I don't have any kids / My kids are all grown. Why do I need to pay for schools?"
"I'm a pacifist. I don't want any of my money going to the military."
"I hate foreigners. I don't want my money going to foreign aid."
"I'm never gonna drive on that highway. Why do I need to pay for that?"
"I'm healthy as a horse. Always been. Why should I pay for hospitals?"
"I'm off the grid. Why am I paying for electrical infrastructure?"
"Politicians / Public servants are all lazy entitled jerks. I don't wanna pay for their salaries."
"Never been to a national park, Don't ever expect to, either. Why should I pay for that?"

The list goes on and on. Not only would there be less money to work with. The sheer mega-army of accounting folks and programmers needed to process exactly where each person in the country wants _their_ money to go (or not go) would only serve to increase the total tab for operating the country.

Every year at work, we get handed donation forms for the local United Way. You can either check off "Here's my pledge of XXX dollars. Go do something good for the region.", or you can go through the list and indicate "I want $1.63 from each paycheck to go the Foodbank, $2.45 to local cancer patient services, $1.79 for women's shelters, $0.94 for teenage runaway counselling, $2.27 for seniors' services...". I imagine there are some who have a special connection with certain causes, but imagine that most check off the first box, if only because the math starts to get as difficult as identifying your personal priorities.

Last year, I saw the elementary school behind us, whose schoolyard our home backs onto, and that our younger son attended (and that I was school council president of for a couple years), had their play structure removed because it was deemed unsafe. They needed a new one, and I'll be damned if I was going to spend my retirement looking out the kitchen window at kids with nothing to climb on or imagine with during recess. So I cut them a medium-largeish cheque to help with the fundraiser for the purchase and erection of a new play structure. It took a while, but the school board sent me a tax receipt for it. Then, a week ago, the school board voted to close down the school this fall, so there won't be recess in that yard ever again, come this June. My donation undoubtedly went into that ether known as general revenues. Had I known that was going to happen, I would have directed the money somewhere more useful.

But my point is that, even when one has the sense that your taxes or charitable dollars are going to go to X, there's a pretty good chance they won't. Keeping all the envelopes separate is a herculean task. One just has to accept the reality of "general revenues", and glare at those spending those revenues to make sure they exercise prudent judgment....because MY TAXES PAY YOUR DAMN SALARY!


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

mhammer said:


> I don't know that he is. But even if he does adopt creative accounting, he's also pretty generous with his money, when it comes to charitable causes.


That started after he got married. Before that he was notoriously stingy.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Then good on him for picking the right spouse.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

mhammer said:


> Also worth noting that there generally aren't landlines in refugee camps.
> 
> But let's keep this about automation.
> 
> Whoops, and about white collar jobs. Though I'm not sure what to call service-sector jobs: blue or white. _Pale _blue?


Grey is what we use in our databases.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

(Does that mean you need to change your detergent, or use stain remover?)

But about the future of work...

One often sees listings for "skills of the future", but you never, or at least rarely, see lists of "skills that won't be very marketable in 5 years".
The incursion of automation into white collar work implies that there will be some skills that won't make one as employable in 2018 as they did in 1968 or 1988 or 1998. That will mean some aspects of elementary and secondary school curriculum will be dropped, and some post-secondary programs will be considered as wasted resources. And since technological change (as driver of occupations) will almost necessarily move faster than the ability of basic and higher education to change. many folks will have been educated for one era and find themselves parachuted into another.

I still recall well how knowledge of the various breeds of farm animals was part of the science or social-studies curriculum in grade 5 and 6. The assumption was that many children would end up working on the family farm, so knowledge of the different breeds of poultry, pigs, sheep, horses, and both beef and milk cows was considered essential curriculum when I was in school. Somehow, knowing that butterfat content is highest in Jersey cows, slightly lower in Guernsey, and lower still in Holstein, isn't quite as crucial to one's employment future anymore.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I'm surprised that this is even a topic. Since the dawn of time we have been inventing machinery that replaces/aids labour. Computers were making "white-collar" functions redundant before robotics really ever hit the factory floors. Taxing a robot is silly - they don't earn income. Theoretically they save the company money, which increase profits - which result in higher corporate income taxes.

Unless you're Bombardier, maybe.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It's a topic primarily because so much discourse, some of it prejudicial and under-informed, has been instigated by the Trump campaign and presidency, regarding non-citizens "taking our jobs". Some writers wanted to remind us that, in the grand scheme of things, there is likely more to fear from automation displacing domestic workers than from foreign workers displacing them.

So it's temporarily topical, is all. But you're right that machines have been displacing labour for almost as long as there has been labour. Hell, Gutenberg displaced scribes, that rat bastard with his damn printing press!


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

mhammer said:


> It's a topic primarily because so much discourse, some of it prejudicial and under-informed, has been instigated by the Trump campaign and presidency, regarding non-citizens "taking our jobs". Some writers wanted to remind us that, in the grand scheme of things, there is likely more to fear from automation displacing domestic workers than from foreign workers displacing them.
> 
> So it's temporarily topical, is all. But you're right that machines have been displacing labour for almost as long as there has been labour. Hell, Gutenberg displaced scribes, that rat bastard with his damn printing press!


Don't see the connection to Trump or illegal immigrants in the original article. Can you link to your sources please?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It's not in the original article. It's just a topic that got broached many times during the campaign: jobs are going elsewhere. I suppose I need to correct a mis-statement on my part. Not that immigrants were coming *in* and "taking" jobs, but that jobs were being outsourced to other countries. Part of the trumpian response was to adopt protectionist measures against incoming manufactured products and services. The broader response, which the article is part of, is that - again - there is probably greater erosion of employment stemming from automation _domestically_, than from jobs being shipped out. Either way, there is the threat of less paid employment for citizens who desire employment. If you're displaced from work, I suppose it really doesn't matter whether you were displaced by your job moving to another country or your position being replaced by a machine.
That's what I get for taking a momentary breather from work and thinking I can say something clever in a moment before getting back to work. %h(*&*#*(


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

mhammer said:


> It's not in the original article. It's just a topic that got broached many times during the campaign: jobs are going elsewhere. I suppose I need to correct a mis-statement on my part. Not that immigrants were coming *in* and "taking" jobs, but that jobs were being outsourced to other countries. Part of the trumpian response was to adopt protectionist measures against incoming manufactured products and services. The broader response, which the article is part of, is that - again - there is probably greater erosion of employment stemming from automation _domestically_, than from jobs being shipped out. Either way, there is the threat of less paid employment for citizens who desire employment. If you're displaced from work, I suppose it really doesn't matter whether you were displaced by your job moving to another country or your position being replaced by a machine.
> That's what I get for taking a momentary breather from work and thinking I can say something clever in a moment before getting back to work. %h(*&*#*(


At least twice in this thread you yourself mention that this particular thread is not about refugees and instruct us to steer away from them and back to automation. Yet now you tell me_ it is about refugees and immigrants_.

Pardon me for being confused but I find myself unclear on your agenda


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Where the hell do I even mention immigrants or refugees in this post, other than correcting myself and saying that's NOT what it's about?


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Where the hell do I even mention immigrants or refugees in this post, other than correcting myself and saying that's NOT what it's about?


I said in the thread Mark - check your posts #12 and #23 and reread #37. You're the one bringing them up.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

When I left grade school they thought it was a job well done if you could fix a car and shoot something for dinner. They also figured you'd get the other essential life skills sorted out by watching farm animals go at it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

allthumbs56 said:


> I said in the thread Mark - check your posts #12 and #23 and reread #37. You're the one bringing them up.


You wrote "Yet now you tell me it is about refugees and immigrants". You'll forgive me for thinking you were referring to that particular post. We both have some correcting to do.

For my part, amidst the haze of protests here and there, and bizarre declarations to the press, I had lost track of what the automation/white-collar-jobs piece was _specifically_ in response to. And again, it came up specifically because of the suggestion by those aligned with the current White House that jobs would magically reappear by simply preventing jobs from leaving the country or preventing jobs which had already left from gaining easy access to American markets. The notion that other nations were somehow the source of disappearing jobs got blended in with other things.

Now many of those disappearing jobs are manufacturing jobs. But as the piece Colchar originally linked to was intended to illustrate, domestic jobs are under ongoing threat from many domestic factors, including automation. My additional point was that the reason this is coming up NOW (the question you raised yourself) was partly in response to the discourse about disappearing jobs.

Much of my graduate training, and indeed my current job, centers around understanding that sometimes things happen for reasons one hadn't considered. And in this instance, automation is a factor that got lost for many. We can get irritated that Heinz ketchup moved from Leamington to the U.S., but we shouldn't forget that once upon a time,you had to get your concert and movie tickets from a person, or had to ask an operator for someone's number, and now those jobs are being done by algorithms. In the grand scheme of things how many jobs are lost because ketchup moved to another country vs because jobs that we didn't necessarily do/have, but took for granted, become automated? That doesn't make automation "the enemy". But it does mean that when trying to figure out what will provide gainful employment at a decent living wage for the most people, effective strategies can't simply revolve around "us" vs "them".


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

mhammer said:


> It's not in the original article. It's just a topic that got broached many times during the campaign: jobs are going elsewhere. I suppose I need to correct a mis-statement on my part. Not that immigrants were coming *in* and "taking" jobs, but that jobs were being outsourced to other countries. Part of the trumpian response was to adopt protectionist measures against incoming manufactured products and services. The broader response, which the article is part of, is that - again - there is probably greater erosion of employment stemming from automation _domestically_, than from jobs being shipped out. Either way, there is the threat of less paid employment for citizens who desire employment. If you're displaced from work, I suppose it really doesn't matter whether you were displaced by your job moving to another country or your position being replaced by a machine.
> That's what I get for taking a momentary breather from work and thinking I can say something clever in a moment before getting back to work. %h(*&*#*(


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

Losing jobs to automation is inevitable and historic at the same time.
historic:
printing press - displaced scribes 
swather/combine - displaced hand harvesting
forging factories - displaced blacksmiths

and so on..

It's not that hard to see that as tech improves, jobs will be displaced.

It's funny that I think of this right now because when I was going to school the first computer revolution was going on..the 1980's
My teacher's always were preaching the wave of tye future was to understand computers...and they were correct..to a point.

Throughout my town, the people that lost their jobs first in hard times, were what has become known as unskilled labour.
factory line workers, cashiers, car wash attendants, etc.

The workers who always had jobs? Skilled trades.

Ironicly the labour market that seems the least stable to me? Middle management, paper pushers that don't really fulfill a task.

All my nephews all ask about my job fixing cars.
And I tell them the same thing that I heard on the radio...

You want a job forever? Learn to farm, cook, build, or repair the machines that get used everyday. because robots can only assemble, they don't repair


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

mhammer said:


> It's a topic primarily because so much discourse, some of it prejudicial and under-informed, has been instigated by the Trump campaign and presidency, regarding non-citizens "taking our jobs".
> 
> Some writers wanted to remind us that, in the grand scheme of things, there is likely more to fear from automation displacing domestic workers than from foreign workers displacing them.
> 
> So it's temporarily topical, is all.




No it isn't. Automation taking away jobs was an issue long before Trump appeared on the scene.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm not saying, and never said, it wasn't an ongoing issue. Rather, people had to be _reminded_ that it was already an issue, after they had been distracted by all the discourse about Mexico, etc. Such is the nature of the 24hr news cycle. The public gets easily distracted from reality by the headlines.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

mhammer said:


> I'm not saying, and never said, it wasn't an ongoing issue. Rather, people had to be _reminded_ that it was already an issue, after they had been distracted by all the discourse about Mexico, etc. Such is the nature of the 24hr news cycle. *The public gets easily distracted from reality by the headlines.*


That was 20 years ago. The public is now distracted by cat videos - while they're driving. I think smart phones is a plot by aliens to dumb us down before they wipe us out. Even the name, smart phones, is a bit of a misnomer. While the phone has powerful processing, it's impact on humanity is not in the 'smart' direction. Quite the opposite, I'm afraid.

Bit I digress. Carry on ...........


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

mhammer said:


> I'm not saying, and never said, it wasn't an ongoing issue. Rather, people had to be _reminded_ that it was already an issue, after they had been distracted by all the discourse about Mexico, etc. Such is the nature of the 24hr news cycle. The public gets easily distracted from reality by the headlines.


"reminded" and "distracted"? How old do you think most folks are?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jdto said:


> Grey is what we use in our databases.


Sorta like grey water in an RV?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> When I left grade school they thought it was a job well done if you could fix a car and shoot something for dinner. They also figured you'd get the other essential life skills sorted out by watching farm animals go at it.


Worked for me and the neighbor girl.


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