# Atnn: Pancake jack lovers



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

A modern update to the pancake jack, the squareplug:

Squareplug SP400 Low Profile Flat TS (up to 4.5mm OD) | Redco Audio

Smaller head (square vs round) as well as actual solder tabs for both the tip and sleeve (most pancakes require soldering to the casing for the sleeve, which is a pain).

You're welcome. I may even try some myself at some point (known pancake hater).


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

FINALLY!!

Switchcraft is so slow to alter their (40 year old?) designs...snooze and looze

Nice solder tabs...










Competition for the Swedes...









@jbealsmusic You might want to consider stocking these.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

greco said:


> FINALLY!!
> 
> Switchcraft is so slow to alter their (40 year old?) designs...snooze and looze
> 
> ...


EBS Flats are awesome.... best the is IMO


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## Boogieman (Apr 6, 2009)

Nice toast sandwich plugs.

I ran into a bit of a problem with the Switchcraft pancakes when I tried to hook up some Boss pedals in stereo. The Boss pedals that I have all have the left and right channel jacks to close to each other to clear the pancake plugs. I switched to the Switchcraft #226 plugs instead. My bad for not checking before I made the cables.

Pancake plugs are great for connecting pedals that have the jack on both sides. It is nice to see this Squareplug plug has tabs for both tip and shield, much better than soldering the shield to the case on a Switchcraft pancake.


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## ga20t (Jul 22, 2010)

Great looking design—Alan key fasteners, rigid looking casing, easy to solder tabs (less time, less heat to fry things)—and way past due.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

greco said:


> FINALLY!!
> 
> Switchcraft is so slow to alter their (40 year old?) designs...snooze and looze
> 
> ...


I ended up going with those Swedish cables because the connectors were smaller than the ones you made me. As well the cable is more flexible. However I kept the ones you made me as backup.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

The Flats are smaller and cheaper in the long run.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

sulphur said:


> The Flats are smaller and cheaper in the long run.


They are selling like hotcakes (note: not pancakes..even though they are apparently directly related!) at our local music store.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

greco said:


> They are selling like hotcakes (note: not pancakes..even though they are apparently directly related!) at our local music store.


Four different lengths with flexible cable at a reasonable price and the ends will fit anywhere.
What's not to love?


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2018)

greco said:


> @jbealsmusic


These ones are not shielded. Some guys had them on their boards and got rid of them because of noise.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Player99 said:


> These ones are *not shielded. *Some guys had them on their boards and got rid of them because of noise.


Interesting...this indicates that they are shielded:
EBS - PCF Deluxe Flat Patch Cable, Right-Angle, 10cm


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Boogieman said:


> It is nice to see this Squareplug plug has tabs for both tip and shield, much better than soldering the shield to the case on a Switchcraft pancake.


I'll drink to that...or because of it!


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Player99 said:


> These ones are not shielded. Some guys had them on their boards and got rid of them because of noise.


Mine aren't like those shown, they don't have that gold rim on the plug.
The L&M link is what I have on my board, no noise.


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2018)

greco said:


> Interesting...this indicates that they are shielded:
> EBS - PCF Deluxe Flat Patch Cable, Right-Angle, 10cm





sulphur said:


> Mine aren't like those shown, they don't have that gold rim on the plug.
> The L&M link is what I have on my board, no noise.


I could be wrong, but some time ago I was looking into them and on the Gear Page there was a thread that found them not to be shielded. They may not have had the gold on them... If they work then no worries. I would still stay away.


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2018)

I did a quick search and EBS has a version 2 of their cables. Maybe it was the first bunch that were noisy.


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2018)

Apparently the EBS cables get slammed at the end of the video.

Here is a thread about them:
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/ebs-gold-patch-cables-im-a-believer.1911493/


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Meh, I'll just have to go on my first hand knowledge.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

sulphur said:


> The Flats are smaller and cheaper in the long run.



Negatory. They look great, but molded so if something breaks they're garbage vs being able to pop it open and resolder a connection or snip the wire a bit shorter and redo that way. Also if I roll my own the parts are less than the price of EBS (labour puts it over for a shortie pedal patch, but nor so for a longer cable).

Also, you can't choose your wire but are beholden to what they use (which is probably fine; wire is wire for the most part, but I have seen stuff with inadequate shielding, like a loose braid, for example but I doubt that's the case here).

Personally, for pedal interconnects I buy the $10 pack of 6 or so molded 6 inchers and treat them as disposables. For longer cables I roll my own with Amphenol jacks, r angles where needed/wanted. The only place I would have used a pancake is where that was original equipment and nothing else would fit right (e.g. some amp to speaker connections in vintage combos; all other jacks would stick out beyond the edge of the cab wood).


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2018)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Negatory. They look great, but molded so if something breaks they're garbage vs being able to pop it open and resolder a connection or snip the wire a bit shorter and redo that way. Also if I roll my own the parts are less than the price of EBS (labour puts it over for a shortie pedal patch, but nor so for a longer cable).
> 
> Also, you can't choose your wire but are beholden to what they use (which is probably fine; wire is wire for the most part, but I have seen stuff with inadequate shielding, like a loose braid, for example but I doubt that's the case here).
> 
> Personally, for pedal interconnects I buy the $10 pack of 6 or so molded 6 inchers and treat them as disposables. For longer cables I roll my own with Amphenol jacks, r angles where needed/wanted. The only place I would have used a pancake is where that was original equipment and nothing else would fit right (e.g. some amp to speaker connections in vintage combos; all other jacks would stick out beyond the edge of the cab wood).


The cheap coloured cables might not be shielded either. I asked the local music store owner a couple of months ago and he cut one open and the jack was definitely not shielded.


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## Guest (Sep 10, 2018)

The square jacks, if space is tight to another jack, will have to be straight up, which may not be wanted. If they need to be angled they will take up more space. I don't know why they are not round, other than marketing.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Negatory. They look great, but molded so if something breaks they're garbage vs being able to pop it open and resolder a connection or snip the wire a bit shorter and redo that way. Also if I roll my own the parts are less than the price of EBS (labour puts it over for a shortie pedal patch, but nor so for a longer cable).
> 
> Also, you can't choose your wire but are beholden to what they use (which is probably fine; wire is wire for the most part, but I have seen stuff with inadequate shielding, like a loose braid, for example but I doubt that's the case here).
> 
> Personally, for pedal interconnects I buy the $10 pack of 6 or so molded 6 inchers and treat them as disposables. For longer cables I roll my own with Amphenol jacks, r angles where needed/wanted. The only place I would have used a pancake is where that was original equipment and nothing else would fit right (e.g. some amp to speaker connections in vintage combos; all other jacks would stick out beyond the edge of the cab wood).


The plugs alone are $10 CD, before you even factor in the wire or your time.

I've used solderless previously, still have a couple of boards wired with them.
No issues with those either, I like the small profile, but the Flats were just more convenient.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Player99 said:


> These ones are not shielded. Some guys had them on their boards and got rid of them because of noise.


Absolutely no noise on my board.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2018)

guitarman2 said:


> Absolutely no noise on my board.


I'm not saying there is, I am saying when I researched them some time ago (6 months?) on the gear page they got the thumbs down from a number of people who had bought them. That's why I decided to go with my own soldered pancakes.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Player99 said:


> I'm not saying there is, I am saying when I researched them some time ago (6 months?) on the gear page they got the thumbs down from a number of people who had bought them. That's why I decided to go with my own soldered pancakes.


I went through that thread and one claimed that he fired his out because the shafts were not aligned properly?!?
Another was going on heresay, much like you are, from yet another forum.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2018)

sulphur said:


> I went through that thread and one claimed that he fired his out because the shafts were not aligned properly?!?
> Another was going on heresay, much like you are, from yet another forum.


That wasn't the thread I read before. But there must have been a reason they changed the design to version 2. Anyhow I glad you are enjoying them.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

They are not the smallest right angle plug on the market.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Player99 said:


> The cheap coloured cables might not be shielded either. I asked the local music store owner a couple of months ago and he cut one open and the jack was definitely not shielded.


My intent was not to bash the EBS flats but the opposite to say (for the most part) wire is wire (with the exception of the shoddy sheild I found once on some cheap cable). The interconnects I buy are fine (always same source - best deal I have found, if I am ordering other stuff from the place anyway, which I often am: BLMS). I have had one or 2 die one me (after a few years; expected at that price) and I cut it open myself - perfectly normal. There are various manufacturers and quality may vary. Despite that I am a bit surprised about your annecdote though; the time I noticed was a gradual decline in the physical quality of the bargain basement mic/balanced line cable I used to get at Active Surplus to make me own with (prompting a switch to a name brand).



knight_yyz said:


> They are not the smallest right angle plug on the market.
> 
> View attachment 224476


yes they are:










Looks 4th place to me, maybe 5th after trad pancake (the ones you pictured are 3rd from right, and since the cable sticks up a bit vs straight back like all the others, as per the example in your pic, that increases the profile considerably).


Frankly, if you want lowest profile possible then there's no beating these (have not used so can't speak to reliability):


















(etc - there's a bunch of variations on that theme).


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Player99 said:


> Apparently the EBS cables get slammed at the end of the video.
> 
> Here is a thread about them:
> https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/ebs-gold-patch-cables-im-a-believer.1911493/


Some thoughts on that vid:

- the importance of cable flexibility is overblown, especially the way it is shown here - so what if the cable wants to unbend; your pedals are attached to the board so they won't be moved by the cable (unless you're a random mess on the floor guy, in which case it is also moot because you have the space for this to not be an issue). The one consideration that may be of value here is that stiffer cable may be more susceptible to breakage; but more flexible cable may be more susceptible to tears in the jacket - neither of which were tested here, and that's not a huge concern in a fixed position pedalboard application where the cables are not being moved ever if at all (just when you rearrange the board of add/remove a pedal).

more importantly:

- Cable capacitance is overblown as well. Yes it's true however there will always be some capacitance and the issue of what the tolerable cutoff should be is never addressed, so let me. Assuming 10Kohms (some single coils may be lower; some buckers higher; volume pots not maxed out will affect this; hence treble bleed mods), and knowing that the max freq produced by a guitar is < 1.5kHz (to be fair harmonics and especially some effects can take this , effectively, to the edge of human hearing) you'd need > 10.6nF (10600pF) of capacitance to have any tone sucking effect (assuming 20kHz as the cuttoff that's still 800 pF). These numbers will be smaller for hotter buckers and higher for lower output single coils, but not a huge difference considering the limited range. None of the patch cables tested were anywhere close (all < 100 pf); even the long cables were all less than 500pF. This can get rather more complicated as one considers the entire chain vs just a single interconnect, but you get the idea: not likely to be a issue that will be affected by your choice of patch cable. Now it could be a problem with very long cable runs or long signal chains with no buffers or transformer isolation in any of the pedals therein.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2018)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Some thoughts on that vid:
> 
> - the importance of cable flexibility is overblown, especially the way it is shown here - so what if the cable wants to unbend; your pedals are attached to the board so they won't be moved by the cable (unless you're a random mess on the floor guy, in which case it is also moot because you have the space for this to not be an issue). The one consideration that may be of value here is that stiffer cable may be more susceptible to breakage; but more flexible cable may be more susceptible to tears in the jacket - neither of which were tested here, and that's not a huge concern in a fixed position pedalboard application where the cables are not being moved ever if at all (just when you rearrange the board of add/remove a pedal).
> 
> ...


George L cable has really low capacitance. It is at 19 from memory, which is very low. I have tried and really hate GL solderless ends. I solder GL cable to the pancake jacks.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> A modern update to the pancake *jack*, the square*plug*:


Don't you actually mean "plug" in your thread title (and here)?

You are one of my electronics mentors...this simply won't do...coming from someone of your notoriety!


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

So an extra connection to solder (gnd. tab to sleeve) if you're iffy about having that tab press fit to the shell.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

greco said:


> Don't you actually mean "plug" in your thread title (and here)?
> 
> You are one of my electronics mentors...this simply won't do...coming from someone of your notoriety!


LOL. I have noticed that this is a pet peeve for you, and I don't disagree, but I just hate how awkward sentences get if you repeat words like that (no excuse for the title other than absentmindedness and being used to people calling them 'pancake jacks' around here, so I went with the vernacular). 

However, for all intents and purposes, jack and plug can be interchangeable or at least confusing as to which is which - I have seen it defined as the cable mount end being the plug and the chassis mount end (the reciever or more 'fixed end') being the jack (but what if you are linking 2 cables; think daisy chaining XLR?), but then I have also seen it defined as plug = male and jack = female - then again, to bring it back to XLR - since both male and female can be either cable or chassis mount ( XLR cables always, with some minor exceptions, have 1 male and 1 female end; same with chassis - input is always female and output male) - which one is bloody which in that case smart guy? ;P This even applies to 1/4" - if using a female cable mount connector, is that still a jack or is it a plug by virtue of being cable mount? Depends who you ask; there is no universal standard. To complicate things further I have actually seem male panel mount 1/4" ers, which is weird, but there they were. 

In a perfect world, I agree, we would enforce such distinctions, in our world, I find it hardly worth the effort to police semantics like this - you did get my meaning, and we should all just move on. Yes, defining jack and plug would be more specific, but in this case, is being more specific adding value? I would argue it would not, QED, you totally understood me.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Player99 said:


> George L cable has really low capacitance. It is at 19 from memory, which is very low. I have tried and really hate GL solderless ends. I solder GL cable to the pancake jacks.


Capacitance varies by cable length so I am assuming you mean 19 pF per foot. 19nF would be a lot. Capacitance, as stated isn't everything and I would argue that a solid shield (which would, or could, increase capacitance vs a thinner/looser shield braid) is much more important, especially considering the thresholds I mentioned. I'd rather lose a bit of treble than pick up all the noise in the room. Same thing with the centre conductor, a thicker or thinner guage wire can affect the capacitance.... but it also affects resistance so there is a trade off.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Yes, defining jack and plug would be more specific, but in this case, is being more specific adding value? I would argue it would not, QED, you totally understood me.


The prosecution rests.

I was actually joking with you a bit...but it must not have seemed like that to you.


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## Guest (Sep 11, 2018)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Capacitance varies by cable length so I am assuming you mean 19 pF per foot. 19nF would be a lot. Capacitance, as stated isn't everything and I would argue that a solid shield (which would, or could, increase capacitance vs a thinner/looser shield braid) is much more important, especially considering the thresholds I mentioned. I'd rather lose a bit of treble than pick up all the noise in the room. Same thing with the centre conductor, a thicker or thinner guage wire can affect the capacitance.... but it also affects resistance so there is a trade off.


19 pF per foot.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

So, it seems I find myself in need of a few supplies from Redco. Would there be any interest in a group buy for these Squareplugs? Figured I'd ask since gonna put in an order for other stuff anyway. Would work best if people can pick them up from me (Toronto Downtown central during day - Downtown East the rest of the time; maybe I could make arrangements in a few other places like Scarborough, and Hamilton cuz we jam there sometimes, but would like it to be 1 stop 1 time in anything other Downtown TDot); reshipping to everyone is too much work and will likely counteract the bulk savings (Redco do volume discounts).

Specifically for these plugs the pricing is as follows.

*Quantity* *Price*
1-10 Items $3.75
11-24 Items $3.65
25-49 Items $3.55
50-99 Items $3.29
100-499 Items $3.19
500+ Items $2.90

I'd split shipping, using item weight (they give that on the invoice IIRC), to get the shipping cost per connector and you'd pay the connector price (at whatever break point we manage to reach) + that shipping. And when I say shipping that includes all extraneous fees. All that is in US and I'd use the conversion rate that I actually pay myself.

Folks are already selling these on Reverb for US$5.xx + ship each.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Frankly, if you want lowest profile possible then there's no beating these (have not used so can't speak to reliability):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think someone else posted a video about how these are actually the worst thing you can use on your pedalboard. Many pedals (like BOSS) do not have the jacks totally square to the bottom of the pedal. Or even if they are, many pedals will not stay 100% level on the board when you stomp on them. Both of these factors mean that these connectors will create extra pressure on the jacks and may cause them to break. Using even a tiny cable will allow for some movement without adding any pressure to the jacks.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Fair enough.


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## Boogieman (Apr 6, 2009)

troyhead said:


> I think someone else posted a video about how these are actually the worst thing you can use on your pedalboard. Many pedals (like BOSS) do not have the jacks totally square to the bottom of the pedal. Or even if they are, many pedals will not stay 100% level on the board when you stomp on them. Both of these factors mean that these connectors will create extra pressure on the jacks and may cause them to break. Using even a tiny cable will allow for some movement without adding any pressure to the jacks.


In case someone is looking for the video:


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

troyhead said:


> Many pedals (like BOSS) do not have the jacks totally square to the bottom of the pedal. Or even if they are, many pedals will not stay 100% level on the board when you stomp on them. Both of these factors mean that these connectors will create extra pressure on the jacks and may cause them to break. Using even a tiny cable will allow for some movement without adding any pressure to the jacks.


A big +1 on this -- use at your own risk!!


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

greco said:


> @jbealsmusic You might want to consider stocking these.


I'm only responding here because @greco brought us up. I'm not into spamming threads.

The Good = Yes, we can get them. In fact, I just got of the phone with them (they called us wondering if we wanted to distribute for them in Canada.) Cool.
The Bad = It is not in our budget.

If you know enough people who want to pre-order about 1000 units, we'll make up the rest to meet the buy in requirement. If not, unfortunately it is out of our reach. A bigger company with a bigger budget will likely scoop up the deal at some point.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

jbealsmusic said:


> I'm only responding here because @greco brought us up.


Thanks for the detailed response. Much appreciated.


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

I'll take one.


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## Guest (Dec 5, 2018)

capnjim said:


> I'll take one.


I'll split it with you.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Granny Gremlin said:


> My intent was not to bash the EBS flats but the opposite to say (for the most part) wire is wire (with the exception of the shoddy sheild I found once on some cheap cable). The interconnects I buy are fine (always same source - best deal I have found, if I am ordering other stuff from the place anyway, which I often am: BLMS). I have had one or 2 die one me (after a few years; expected at that price) and I cut it open myself - perfectly normal. There are various manufacturers and quality may vary. Despite that I am a bit surprised about your annecdote though; the time I noticed was a gradual decline in the physical quality of the bargain basement mic/balanced line cable I used to get at Active Surplus to make me own with (prompting a switch to a name brand).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought a dozen of the gold ones from China for cheap. The Scottish Youtube guy says they are evil and destroy pedals because the pedal never lies flat. These ones rotate like a cam. I dig’em so far.


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