# Unpopular Amp Opinions?



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Got any unpopular amp opinions?

I'll start - Dumbles are seriously overrated.


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

You can get a good solid state amp for next to nothing. “Peavy”


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

when regular people have regular amp questions, posting weird technical info and schematics is as helpful as kicking them in the crotch.

Edit: this isn’t unpopular but I wanted to say it anyway.


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Small Gibson tweed amps are better sounding than a deluxe or a princeton.
So are some Ampegs

(Run like a little bitch)


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## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

colchar said:


> Got any unpopular amp opinions?
> 
> I'll start - Dumbles are seriously overrated.



Yes but I would love one


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Modellers sound just as good as tube amps


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I hate combos...


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

A katana 100 Mk 2 is more than most people need and it’ll make pretty much any sound they can think of.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

colchar said:


> Got any unpopular amp opinions?
> 
> I'll start - Dumbles are seriously overrated.


Not overrated. Just overpriced.


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

colchar said:


> unpopular amp opinions


go direct it sounds just fine
j


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Big amps (higher wattage amps) sound better at low volumes than smaller amps do.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

NOS, shmen-OS. All tubes sound exactly the same.

Disclaimer: This is not necessarily my opinion, but it is an unpopular one.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

The more pounds per watt the better.


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

Way back when I was learning guitar, the guy who was teaching me had an option about Marshall amps that may not be very popular. He said "They're not good, just loud."


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Modding your original-stock amp does not make it sound better.....it makes it sound different.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

Unpopular opinions? Not necessarily mine, but...

That amp probably wasn't worth the money.
Hand-wired, point-to-point is only as good as the builder.
Tube amps don't always feel great.
You still sound the same through all of them.
And your buddy sounds better than you through your rig.
You only need one.
"You're too loud."


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Handwired point to point is not necessarily better than a PCB circuit.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Vintage amps are more trouble than they're worth, I'd rather get a new one without the ratty tweed and grill cloth.

The Celestion Seventy 80 is a good speaker.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

You can't always blame the amp...it's all in the hands. I've witnessed musicians produce great sound from a so called inferior amp.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

colchar said:


> Handwired point to point is not necessarily better than a PCB circuit.


Thats not really an opinion as much as a fact. There's bad PTP and bad PCB and good PTP and good PCB. The Tone Kings I've owned in the past were examples of fantastic PCB


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

guitarman2 said:


> Thats not really an opinion as much as a fact. There's bad PTP and bad PCB and good PTP and good PCB. The Tone Kings I've owned in the past were examples of fantastic PCB


I think a lot of this comes from hand-wired being more expensive, therefore it MUST be better. No, its more labour intensive, therefore more expensive.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

guitarman2 said:


> Thats not really an opinion as much as a fact. There's bad PTP and bad PCB and good PTP and good PCB. The Tone Kings I've owned in the past were examples of fantastic PCB


It’s an opinion because “good” and “bad” are subjective. Good at what? Good for what?


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

The 21st century offers guitarists numerous options in terms of amplification. But some of us can't let go of old tech and choose a far more complicated setup than perhaps is needed/warranted given the advances of current tech.

Option 1: 21C Modellers and SS amps that sound/feel great and are consistent no matter the external factors (such as weather).

Option 2: 21C Gadgets (attenuators, load boxes, reampers) to allow us to play at lower volumes our vintage circuit tube amps - which many feel only start to sound great at a higher volumes when the tubes are cookin'. 

By the way, I partake in both options, but I hardly use my tube amp anymore.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

jdto said:


> It’s an opinion because “good” and “bad” are subjective. Good at what? Good for what?


The opinion stated didn't say anything about good or bad. The opinion was "point to point isn't *necessarily* better than PCB". This is true. Its not necessarily better based on variables.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Unpopular amp opinion….

I don’t care what you think sounds good. I only care what I think sounds good.

I’ve heard a lot of people who think that their tone is excellent when it actually sounds like shit.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

guitarman2 said:


> The opinion stated didn't say anything about good or bad. The opinion was "point to point isn't *necessarily* better than PCB". This is true. Its not necessarily better based on variables.


You're right, good or bad weren't mentioned, but "better" implies opinion. Nonetheless, I get your point. It is a fact one is not necessarily better than the other as that is a subjective judgement.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Cyber-twin. Actually, stairs & Fender Twins.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1) Point-to-point is a construction/assembly method. If accompanied by measured selection of components (as opposed to robotic assembly and wave soldering) it CAN be/sound "better". But that's a product of what's IN the amplifier, not how it was attached. Selection of components for PCB-based amps *can* also be done, but because PCB construction is often done to reduce production costs, it tends not to be accompanied by selection of components.

2) When people talk about "sounding good" they are referring to what comes out of the speakers. Obviously that will also include what the amplifier itself does, but the bottleneck IS the speakers themselves. EVERY speaker has a linear and non-linear range. Most speakers will require some minimum power applied in order to display their personality - what is referred to as their linear range - where the frequency response it is capable of is on full display, and the manner in which it may "corrupt" what comes from the output stage is minimized. The linear range should not be confused with efficiency. So, a speaker can be loud enough for you (good efficiency), but not necessarily be within its linear range. So an amp+speaker may well be showing off its best qualities with a less efficient speaker, but since many players seek out the most volume for the lowest price and carry weight, they don't get to hear that.

3) I think some amps CAN be modded to sound "better", rather than simply different, although that may well be more true of lower-priced amps than "pro" models, where kinks are worked out in the design, often with input from professional end-users. At the lower price end, many sacrifices are made in order to shave off pennies here and there in production, under the rubric of "it won't matter that much". My poster child for this is the smaller-than-optimal cabinet size of many beginner and lower-priced amps. Trimming an inch off each dimension of the cab reduces production, shipping, and storage costs, but also reduces internal volume which elicits less bass response from the speaker and generally less volume than the amp is capable of. Those whose memory goes back some years will remember well how many amplifiers would use linear rather than logarithmic volume pots such that turning volume up to the 9:00 position would be so loud (and too loud for the store), one would think that even greater volume levels would be attainable as the knob was turned, only to find when they got home that there was little audible difference from 11:00 to 5:00. So modification to use more appropriate pot tapers may not make an amp sound better OR different, but will make it more usable, which right away makes it a "better" amp.

4) Some amplifiers can lack features that you'd think would be a desirable element and no-brainer, but left them on the cutting-room floor. For instance, service outlets, or external speaker jacks. Those can be the sorts of things where the customer says, "Not bad but not for me".


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> Thats not really an opinion as much as a fact. There's bad PTP and bad PCB and good PTP and good PCB. The Tone Kings I've owned in the past were examples of fantastic PCB



Yeah but so many people are convinced that hand wired is automatically better, that I figured the opposite was as much opinion as fact these days.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

isoneedacoffee said:


> The 21st century offers guitarists numerous options in terms of amplification. But some of us can't let go of old tech and choose a far more complicated setup than perhaps is needed/warranted given the advances of current tech.
> 
> Option 1: 21C Modellers and SS amps that sound/feel great and are consistent no matter the external factors (such as weather).
> 
> ...


Some of us would argue that the modelers are the more complicated setup.


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

colchar said:


> Some of us would argue that the modelers are the more complicated setup.


You are absolutely right about that. It could go both ways depending on the gear chosen.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

colchar said:


> Yeah but so many people are convinced that hand wired is automatically better, that I figured the opposite was as much opinion as fact these days.


Yes if you hold the belief that one is better than the other then that is definitely an opinion. And a poor uninformed one at that. If you believe "one is not necessarily better than the other" then that is something that can be taken as truth. 
And when we compare ptp to pcb I'm thinking its best to keep the comparisons to reliability in design, ruggedness, etc. If you want to bring tone in to the conversation most of us should know by now thats silly. I'd like to see someone tell in a blind test the difference between the tone king imperial PCB and the 20th anniversary PTP version.
Even a well tuned and properly bias'd deluxe reverb against a 64 handwired (if speakers were identical) would be impossible to tell the difference.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

colchar said:


> Some of us would argue that the modelers are the more complicated setup.


Not necessarily. The new Fender Tonemaster series amps are technically modelers. No more complicated than a tube amp. Infact less complicated.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

The Fender Tonemaster series is a complicated amp. It may not be unpopular with musicians however, how many amp techs here look forward to servicing them.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> Yes if you hold the belief that one is better than the other then that is definitely an opinion. And a poor uninformed one at that. If you believe "one is not necessarily better than the other" then that is something that can be taken as truth.
> And when we compare ptp to pcb I'm thinking its best to keep the comparisons to reliability in design, ruggedness, etc. If you want to bring tone in to the conversation most of us should know by now thats silly. I'd like to see someone tell in a blind test the difference between the tone king imperial PCB and the 20th anniversary PTP version.
> Even a well tuned and properly bias'd deluxe reverb against a 64 handwired (if speakers were identical) would be impossible to tell the difference.


Then there are twats like Eric Johnson who claims that he can hear a difference based on which end of a cable is plugged into his amp and which is plugged into his guitar.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> Not necessarily. The new Fender Tonemaster series amps are technically modelers. No more complicated than a tube amp. Infact less complicated.


I consider those amps, not modelers.

When I say modeler I am referring to Helix, Fractal, etc.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Paul Running said:


> The Fender Tonemaster series is a complicated amp. It may not be unpopular with musicians however, how many amp techs here look forward to servicing them.
> View attachment 393080



When I say uncomplicated I'm talking about as a player. I turn it on with a switch and I turn a few knobs.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

colchar said:


> I consider those amps, not modelers.
> 
> When I say modeler I am referring to Helix, Fractal, etc.


You can consider them amps and that would be your opinion but the fact is they're modelers. Yes they only model 1 amp but modeler all the same.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

colchar said:


> Then there are twats like Eric Johnson who claims that he can hear a difference based on which end of a cable is plugged into his amp and which is plugged into his guitar.


Yes there are those that claim to have magic ears. But for most of us its not so.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

410 cabs sound better than most others for cleans.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Amps are just 20th century nostalgia.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

“If you can’t get a good sound out of <popular amp> it’s not the amp’s fault”


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## SurfGreenTele (Jan 24, 2010)

colchar said:


> Big amps (higher wattage amps) sound better at low volumes than smaller amps do.


That’s exactly what I came in to say haha. I have 3 2x12 amps in my tiny studio/guitar cave. Small amps just sound boxy and thin at low volume, while my big amps can sound huge no matter what.


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## NashvilleDeluxe (Feb 7, 2018)

A great amp is more important than a great guitar. If you're going to plunk down $2000+ on one of the two, spend it on the amp. And I own a guitar repair shop. I also have a Tone King Sky King (1st Gen).


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## Gene Machine (Sep 22, 2007)

crann said:


> I think a lot of this comes from hand-wired being more expensive, therefore it MUST be better. No, its more labour intensive, therefore more expensive.


Handwired amps are easier to fix. PCB depends on the design. Surface mount stuff requires special equipment and skills most people can’t work on it.


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

My Mesa is better than my fender


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## Navelac (Dec 16, 2021)

I think my JCM 900 SL-X can hang with, and actually smokes a lot of 800's.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

mrmatt1972 said:


> 410 cabs sound better than most others for cleans.


Some amps sound better for dirt with 10-inch speakers. My case in point for that is the Peavey Classic series. The Classic 50 4x10 is one of my favourite dirt sounds.

I really want to try the Peavy Ultra 4x10 too.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Hey, this is becoming a "Praise the amps" thread. I'll get it back on track w/ a semi-unpopular opinion:

I hate it when a guy shows up with a dirty amp, like literally. An open back combo full of cables, gear, pedals and tons of dust bunnies. But he can redeem himself if he plays well...


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## Warren Gibson (Jun 9, 2018)

jdto said:


> Modellers sound just as good as tube amps


You lost me at they sound just as good


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Warren Gibson said:


> You lost me at they sound just as good


Hence the thread title


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Standby switches are not necessary (they actually aren't but few people realize that).


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Effects loops aren't needed.

Did I post that already? On a small screen so too lazy to go back and check.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)




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## Anthony88 (Nov 20, 2018)

The fender bassbreaker is one of the best sounding small Marshall amps 😬


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

My Marshall 5120 solid state amp from the 80s is similar to AC/DC in a couple of ways.

It produces a similar tone from that era
Some of the people who hated it then, like it now


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Most people only try a handful of different speakers and somehow think they know how amps sound.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

My amp is better than yours.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

FatStrat2 said:


> My Marshall 5120 solid state amp from the 80s is similar to AC/DC in a couple of ways.
> 
> It produces a similar tone from that era
> Some of the people who hated it then, like it now


I have a 5275 with a Celestion Sidewinder. Apparently, based on the JCM 800 circuit.
I like the sound and it's one of my favourites.


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