# Gardening: it may be too soon for this, but...



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

...I want to make sure I'm ready.

I'll be starting my own garden this season. I'm going to start indoors in a jiffy greenhouse.

When do you guys typically get the gardening going?

Also, do any of you have experience with building your own greenhouses? They're such an eyesore unless it's conservatory style, but they're sooo pricey. I've checked out a few things online, but it's a bit overwhelming. Any recommendations here?

The only gardening experience I have is that I once told this lady (an old client of mine) that I would help her with her garden for the spring/summer/fall, since her husband was too ill from mould exposure to help her. We started from scratch and worked 3 10x20 plots (two were donations to the food bank - she surprised me with those ones). For a while I thought she wanted to see me dead - it was back breaking for sure.

I was there 2 hours working before the day started and an hour or two after work to keep things in order, BUT, I still don't understand the timing of things. She told me what to plant, how to plant, and I did it. I'm definitely a novice.

any tips would be appreciated.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

I cant help you on the timing thing, but I did just find out that you can build an unheated, outdoor greenhouse and still grow certain things all winter. When extra cold weather strikes, all you need is a string of old xmas lights to create enough heat


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

As early as possible. Being in the Niagara region, we are about two weeks ahead of the Toronto area.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

Vegetables we generally grow from seedlings not seed,tomatoes ,peppers ,cucumbers etc.

We will probably try somethings from seed this year,looks be damned,function over form in this case .
I'm going to build us some sort of greenhouse/seed starter,no neighbours to offend out here .

I do the grunt work.
The wife could grow a tree on a rock ,so I just say ok and dig .

We don't get too excited about getting things into ther ground until at least the first weekend in May .

Frost is the enemy as far as young plants go .


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## Guest (Feb 23, 2014)

google some 'gardening forums'.

I would start with a simple coldframe project before tackling 
a pricey greenhouse. It may be all you need to start anyways.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

I try to start tomatoes, cucumbers, and peppers from seed in early March. You can start indoors with a grow-light or a bright window and then transplant in mid-May. I use the peat containers so I don't disturb the root when I transplant.

I've been looking at the 4'x8' greenhouse kits from Canadian Tire and may take the plunge this year.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Scotty said:


> I cant help you on the timing thing, but I did just find out that you can build an unheated, outdoor greenhouse and still grow certain things all winter. When extra cold weather strikes, all you need is a string of old xmas lights to create enough heat


Where would I find out what grows in those conditions? Digging through the interweb, or is it something only a few know about?

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Steadfastly said:


> As early as possible. Being in the Niagara region, we are about two weeks ahead of the Toronto area.


So, like now? I'm starting from seed.

It's just me and my son today, while my wife goes to work - it would be neat little project for us.

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Bubb said:


> Vegetables we generally grow from seedlings not seed,tomatoes ,peppers ,cucumbers etc.
> 
> We will probably try somethings from seed this year,looks be damned,function over form in this case .
> I'm going to build us some sort of greenhouse/seed starter,no neighbours to offend out here .
> ...


Ok, so I'll check out the seed I have and see how long it'll take before it's plantable while keeping early may in mind. That makes things a bit easier.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

laristotle said:


> google some 'gardening forums'.
> 
> I would start with a simple coldframe project before tackling
> a pricey greenhouse. It may be all you need to start anyways.


Ok, I'll look at coldframes. I'm certain that I'll be doing this yearly, so I'm okay spending a little.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Growing our own food has become a priority for us. We live on a five acre patch in a rural community and have become much more active since my wife retired. Last year I built a 3m x6m greenhouse and this has gained me about 20 "I think I want to buy another guitar/microphone..."credits!

My advice is to start small and learn from all the inevitable mistakes you will make. On the other hand, you can literally throw seeds in he ground and some of them will grow. Mother Nature has been doing fine without a lot of help from us.

getting the new seed catalogues every year is just about as exciting as it used to be to get the Sears Wish Book! The best ones have lots of advice and many have good on line sites now. One of our favourites to deal with is Hope Seeds here in NS. They understand our climate, and provide seeds and advice suited for his area. I recommend that you find one in your area, as understanding local climate and pest cycles is very important. Hopeseeds.com

one ancillary benefit of having a green house is the great feeling of sun warmed air this time of year. I walked into our greenhouse yesterday at 10 Am, after shovelling a couple of feet of snow away from the door to be greeted by an interior temp of 20C, along with the aroma of warm earth, straw and a few surviving herbs from last season. While I was doing the shovelling the wife was prodding the snow covering our largest garden plot looking for he spot we planted some kale late last year. Some didn't survive, but she managed to harvest a good basket that ended up being part of our supper. 

Part of our property has a prominent drop off towards our brook. This year I am going to be cutting into the side of this hill and building a sloped glass roof structure on top. This will allow us to plant about 5 feet below ground level, giving us a full year growing season. We have neighbours who have been doing this successfully for several years and they are happy to share with us their experience in construction and what plants are hardy to this method.

Looking forward to having some toasted kale chips for a snack tonight!


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

After years of experimenting, we grow everything except potatoes and carrots/beets etc in pots. I call it the "pot" garden. I'm into peppers, the wife is all about tomatoes and cucumbers. What I've found works best is putting the pots into low trays full of water and letting the plants draw their water up from the bottom as they need it.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

westcoastseeds.com are good and have a great chart showing you what to plant and when to plant it. Iirc its under gardening resources section.

seedsavers.org is a new one I havent ordered from but looks to have lots of great heirloom seedlines and a wealth of info on growing and saving your own seed.

Miss my garden i had in Quebec, it was pretty huge. I currently have about a 4' by 40' section along the fence here, good but need more room for a potato patch! 

I have always wanted to build a greenhouse and I understand your dilemma. 
Hoophouses are cheap and easy to build but are a bit of an eyesore. A good greenhouse can easily set you back a couple grand.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Moosehead said:


> westcoastseeds.com are good and have a great chart showing you what to plant and when to plant it. Iirc its under gardening resources section.
> 
> seedsavers.org is a new one I havent ordered from but looks to have lots of great heirloom seedlines and a wealth of info on growing and saving your own seed.
> 
> ...


160 sq.ft is a decent size, I think.

I currently get my seeds from Terra Edibles. they're in Guelph, so they know the weather close to where I am. The only thing they seem to lack from what you guys are saying is a guideline for planting.

I'm checking out the book and they offer nothing but a brief description. I'll have to check out their site and see if there's anything there.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Whether you start from seed or seedlings just watch out when you plant, better safe than sorry - we're about 30K east of you and only a few K north (Sunderland), I was just checking my notes from last spring and I see that we had a frost that wiped out the first crop of cucumbers in the last week of May (which is generally considered quite safe for this area), and even more out of the ordinary the second batch of was wiped out by frost on June 2nd, after that we were fine.

For Bradford area (which you mentioned in a post) you've been fine the last 25 years (except 2012) planting on May 24 long weekend, as far as I can remember.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Vesey Seeds will send you seedlings when it is safe to plant them. You order the stuff, they keep an eye on the weather and calendar, and the package shows up when its time.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Lincoln said:


> After years of experimenting, we grow everything except potatoes and carrots/beets etc in pots. I call it the "pot" garden. I'm into peppers, the wife is all about tomatoes and cucumbers. What I've found works best is putting the pots into low trays full of water and letting the plants draw their water up from the bottom as they need it.


That sounds pretty cool. Did you just make it up, or is there literature on it? I wouldn't mind at least trying it out on a couple of things - does it work better with any specific veg?

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Jimmy_D said:


> Whether you start from seed or seedlings just watch out when you plant, better safe than sorry - we're about 30K east of you and only a few K north (Sunderland), I was just checking my notes from last spring and I see that we had a frost that wiped out the first crop of cucumbers in the last week of May (which is generally considered quite safe for this area), and even more out of the ordinary the second batch of was wiped out by frost on June 2nd, after that we were fine.
> 
> For Bradford area (which you mentioned in a post) you've been fine the last 25 years (except 2012) planting on May 24 long weekend, as far as I can remember.


Good to know, thanks.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

mhammer said:


> Vesey Seeds will send you seedlings when it is safe to plant them. You order the stuff, they keep an eye on the weather and calendar, and the package shows up when its time.


That seems pretty handy. I checked out the site for pricing info, and couldn't find much. I imagine it's a bit more costly. Do you do this? And, from what I see, they must ship from out east - I can't wrap my head around it (must be specialty packing or something? overnight?).


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Look into companion planting, what grows with what etc. 

I swear that I AM going to prune my apple trees this year. A project that I have put off forever. 

My big project this year is to start a grape trellis. I have a grape that has taken over one wall. I bought one of those screen tent things and I plan to use the metal frame and attach the grape to it. I have another grape that I can will move there and I should have the thing covering it this year.


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## BIGDC (Aug 16, 2011)

Check out your local library for books on veggie gardening. When to plant is determined by working back from your local last frost date. I've found in the past that trying to get an early start is not always a good idea as the ground has to warm up before things will grow well. With this cold winter and with all the lakes frozen over I have a feeling we'll have a late spring.
Lettuce and peas are both cool weather crops and the lettuce can be grown in pots on your deck or balcony.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

BIGDC said:


> ... the ground has to warm up before things will grow well. .


We cover our garden with sheets of black plastic every winter, which serves the dual purpose of keeping the weeds at bay and warming the soil in the early spring.

It's also a good way to start a new garden. It takes about six weeks to knock off all the plant life underneath and then it's easy digging to create your garden.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

adcandour said:


> That seems pretty handy. I checked out the site for pricing info, and couldn't find much. I imagine it's a bit more costly. Do you do this? And, from what I see, they must ship from out east - I can't wrap my head around it (must be specialty packing or something? overnight?).


They're in PEI. My wife ordered up a "butterfly garden" from them last spring, and it got shipped out express, at the right time, and the whole kit of little root systems, and "plant-lets", arrived in perfect shape, in seperate little boxes with peat moss. We look forward to another summer of flutterings to watch out the living-room window.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

RE: pots

Two summers back, I was growing several kinds of small tomatoes in pots on the deck. They were doing alright, but as soon as they got near ripe, they'd disappear. I figured it was groundhogs, skunks, raccoons or rabbits (all of whom live in our neighbourhood, since we are near a ravine). Tired of waiting for something that was snatched out from under me, I relocated all the pots to the garage. We have some windows in the garage, and the plants got enough sunlight. Our garage door was busted that summer so the car was parked outside and I could stick the pots anywhere I wanted to.

Well...the tomatoes kept disappearing. What the? Turns out the culprit was not the larger beasties, but this chipmunk that had taken up semi-residence in the garage, coming in via a small opening under the door where the rubber on the bottom didn't quite meet the ground. And with those Dizzy Gillespie cheeks they have, it's a wonder this little bugger didn't pouch my power tools as well!


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Chipmunks are both cute little buggers and little buggers, but you can easily avoid them by planting somewhere that in order to get at your plants they have to run across say 30 ft of lawn, they won't go near anything in the wide open for fear of being swept up by a hawk or something else. They used to toast our sunflowers every year before they could reach 8" high because they were planted near the house or barn, now we put them in the great wide open and they don't touch them.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Good advice that I wish I could make use of. With a total lot of 60x100, and a bunch of house in the middle of it, the only big open expanses to be found are on the other side of our back fence. This year I'm just going to have to make a point of using the mesh netting I described earlier.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

adcandour said:


> I currently get my seeds from Terra Edibles. they're in Guelph, so they know the weather close to where I am. The only thing they seem to lack from what you guys are saying is a guideline for planting.


Are you sure you aren't thinking of another outfit? Terra Edibles lists as near Bellville.
I'd be interested to know if its another supplier in Guelph


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Scotty said:


> Are you sure you aren't thinking of another outfit? Terra Edibles lists as near Bellville.
> I'd be interested to know if its another supplier in Guelph


You may be interested to know that after well over 20 consecutive years of vegetable gardeing, both from seed and buying seedlings (which I've purchased all over southern Ontario), the best tomatoes and cucumber seedlings I ever got were from Walmart Uxbridge Ont. last season...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

And where did Walmart get them from?


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

mhammer said:


> And where did Walmart get them from?


Probably Monsanto :sSc_eeksign:


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

mhammer said:


> And where did Walmart get them from?


You know I have no clue, all I can say is that it was a good crop, perhaps as a tester stop by your local walmart and pick up a few this spring, whack them in the garden along side the rest and see what happens.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Scotty said:


> Are you sure you aren't thinking of another outfit? Terra Edibles lists as near Bellville.
> I'd be interested to know if its another supplier in Guelph


Just double-checked the little book and it says they're in Foxboro. I have no idea why I thought they were in Guelph. Either way, I order them by mail, so no biggie.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Jimmy_D said:


> You may be interested to know that after well over 20 consecutive years of vegetable gardeing, both from seed and buying seedlings (which I've purchased all over southern Ontario), the best tomatoes and cucumber seedlings I ever got were from Walmart Uxbridge Ont. last season...


It's funny you mention this - I sometimes get a massive pork shoulder from a reputable butcher who sources responsibly raised animals, but the meat doesn't compare to the garbage you buy vac sealed at one of the big grocers.

I used to work at a chocolate factory (and my name happens to be Charles - it was funny for a minute), and if something happened on the line, they would divert the chocolate bars to a dead end area where we'd have to try and pack them before they hit the floor. It was impossible. Whatever hit the floor was swept with the wood, wrappers, dirt, mulched and then sent to the pigs -thats what makes the walmart meat so yummy - chocolate!!!

The only thing I've planted from Terra Edibles was a few arugula plants - they were amazing. I can't wait to have more of it.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Jimmy_D said:


> You may be interested to know that after well over 20 consecutive years of vegetable gardeing, both from seed and buying seedlings (which I've purchased all over southern Ontario), the best tomatoes and cucumber seedlings I ever got were from Walmart Uxbridge Ont. last season...


I've gotten seedlings from that same Walmart. The selection varies from year to year - I think they just pick up whatever growers have a surplus of. My place of choice in Uxbridge is Otter's Greenhouse near Epsom. (It helps that a portion of my purchase goes to my kids' school.)


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2014)

There's also Stokes Seeds in St Catherine's.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Where are you guys at? I just gotta keep these things happy for a couple more weeks indoors and then it's planting time. I still haven't figured out where the hell they're going...


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

adcandour said:


> Where are you guys at? I just gotta keep these things happy for a couple more weeks indoors and then it's planting time. I still haven't figured out where the hell they're going...


Looks good! Just make sure that you "harden them off", i.e. take them outside to gradually expose them to more and more direct sunlight, before you plant them. (I learned that the hard way.)

Edit: As to your question, my cucumbers have sprouted and I think my pepper seeds are duds. I'll buy seedlings this year for my tomatoes.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

bw66 said:


> Looks good! Just make sure that you "harden them off", i.e. take them outside to gradually expose them to more and more direct sunlight, before you plant them. (I learned that the hard way.)
> 
> Edit: As to your question, my cucumbers have sprouted and I think my pepper seeds are duds. I'll buy seedlings this year for my tomatoes.


I'll be sure to do that.

Any tips.for the cucumbers?


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

adcandour said:


> Any tips.for the cucumbers?


Around here, they just seem to grow. We almost always get a bumper crop. If you are growing an heirloom variety, leave a couple on the vine until the end of the season and harvest the seeds.

Edit: And pick them when they are smaller than the ones you see in the supermarket - they'll have much better flavour!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Gardening will have to wait a bit longer here. Fired up the roto-tiller to turn the soil in the garden over on Sunday..about 3'' down it's still frozen. And they're calling for snow/flurries/showers until Monday, or maybe Tuesday.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Things are warming very slow here too. Poking around the yard. Main goal grape arbour 





Electraglide said:


> Gardening will have to wait a bit longer here. Fired up the roto-tiller to turn the soil in the garden over on Sunday..about 3'' down it's still frozen. And they're calling for snow/flurries/showers until Monday, or maybe Tuesday.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

bw66 said:


> Around here, they just seem to grow. We almost always get a bumper crop. If you are growing an heirloom variety, *leave a couple on the vine* until the end of the season and harvest the seeds.


Sorry, I'm kind of a newb at this. do you leave them to rot on the vine? Do you leave the best cucumber (quickest to grow, etc.), or just some random cuke?

I've been really interested in saving seeds. My next project is going to be a root cellar - I wanna see how long I can keep veggies fresh into the winter...


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

adcandour said:


> Sorry, I'm kind of a newb at this. do you leave them to rot on the vine? Do you leave the best cucumber (quickest to grow, etc.), or just some random cuke?


Typically, they don't rot, they just get huge. I usually leave a couple that I didn't pick soon enough because I was away or they got overlooked - so yeah, pretty much random. 

I've had good luck with harvesting seeds from brandywine tomatoes (ugly but delicious), shepherd peppers, and pole beans (can't remember the variety) too. You just have to choose the right varieties - look for seeds marked "heirloom".


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I've been meaning to try out one of these global bucket systems..

[video=youtube;lE8OrdUZQKk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE8OrdUZQKk[/video]


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

After all that prepping, I messed things up a bit...

What the hell are these things? Does anyone know? It's all heirloom shit, so it all looks like veggies from the reject pile and my seed packets don't have pics.

Maybe cucumber?


And the award for weirdest veggie goes to...


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## Guest (Jun 23, 2014)

adcandour said:


>


My wife's guess is something from the melon family.
I'll say cuke's or zucchini.




adcandour said:


> And the award for weirdest veggie goes to...


A radish gone wild?


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

laristotle said:


> A radish gone wild?



You were right. I couldn't take it anymore and pulled it out of the ground. And I still didn't know what I was looking at - smelled like turnip and looked like a long one.

So I bit it...radish. It was fantastic. Then I ate the a good portion of the greens.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Squash it looks like to me ..lucky ....flowers already 



laristotle said:


> My wife's guess is something from the melon family.
> I'll say cuke's or zucchini.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Apparently, these radishes grow pretty big. They (and their greens) taste fantastic.





How's all your gardens doing?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

The gardens....in tires, large planters etc.....were doing ok. Then about two weeks ago we got hailed on, ping pong ball and bigger sized hail. So much for the gardens; and the apples. 150 lbs of instant apple sauce. About the only things that survived were one Raspberry bush and a few Strawberry plants.


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