# Appropriate?



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2010/02/23/man-teachers-lap-dancing.html

Appropriate? 

That's a rhetorical question. 

It usually takes a lot to surprise me, but the level of ill-considered behavior here just astounds me. For many years between other jobs and while trying to work in music, I worked service jobs in high schools, and I can safely say I never met a teacher who would consider this appropriate.

It's a WTF moment.

Peace, Mooh.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

I know a lot of teachers.... never met anyone that would do even think about this crap ... a WTF moment for sure....


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> I know a lot of teachers.... never met anyone that would do even think about this crap ... a WTF moment for sure....


Me too. Heck I have a brother and a sister who teach. For several years I was in a band with as many as 5 teachers. Most teachers work so hard to do what's right, fair, honest, dignified, respectful, that imagining any of them doing something like this is just surreal. I hope there's some discipline attached to this beyond the temporary suspension without pay. Sensitivity training wasn't their strong suit I guess.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

What a waste of all those years in School because they won't ever be allowed to teach here in Canada ever again, I couldn't even begin to rationalize what they were thinking and especially with the way high school is these days and this is what they get from their teachers, what in gods green earth were they trying to teach them. How to get fired from your job 101, if they were my kidsw forget suspension, your ass is grass and on the street and lets hope you don't have kids at home.Ship


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

Frankly, after watching the video on YouTube, I feel the worst thing about all this is that I wasted my time watching the vidfeo on YouTube. Most teenager's Facebook pages would put this to shame. I'm not defending the teachers' behaviour, but in this day and age talk of protecting our "innocent" high schoolers from these images seems laughable. There's a down side to having cell phones with cameras in the hands of every "Jack & Jill".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOplTIvAJaA

Shawn.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

This just goes to show that you need to think twice today about anything you do in public. Almost everyone now has a camera or video camera on their person at all times. Posting these pictures and videos on the internet has now become a cottage industry. Used to be that you had to watch out for big brother, now you need to watch out for everyone. Any little thing can end up in the public domain. Could cost you your job, your spouse and sometimes everything.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Maybe it's different from a girls point of view, but I saw some VERY questionable things in High School . Just the way it was and yes what those teachers did is just down right bizzare!


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> This just goes to show that you need to think twice today about anything you do in public. Almost everyone now has a camera or video camera on their person at all times. Posting these pictures and videos on the internet has now become a cottage industry. Used to be that you had to watch out for big brother, now you need to watch out for everyone. Any little thing can end up in the public domain. Could cost you your job, your spouse and sometimes everything.


I think we had this discusion here before, but I think the saddest/creepiest part about all this technology is that the overiding message is that we must censure ourselves and "go along" with the BS, rather than being honest about some of what constitutes normal human behaviour. Essentially my point is: What's worse? That photos exist of one being drunk, high or engaged in some sort activity that attracts dissension. Or that, in adherance to morals that are by today's standards largely a fiction for the majority of people, we can and do snoop through the Web looking for dirt on anyone for any reason. When the poor folks get caught on videos/photos doing whatever, we'll all chime in about what fools they were to get snagged. This puts me in mind of people who buy pot regularly, and when their supplier gets nabbed, they say "well, ya know he was a drug dealer". My $0.03 worth kkjuw

Shawn.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

I tend to agree with rugburn on this one.....was it stupid? - pchaaa! of course!....added discomfort to the situation given its live nature for the kids who were there.....but taking a step back - was the visual anywhere near as heinous as what kids are exposed to on TV - CSI shows some pretty horrific stuff for example....death and destruction......- but a sexual act is too dangerous to display? - ya - this thread is likely about to go on a tangent........

were the kids who were there really disturbed by what they saw? - likely not .....uncomfortable because of who they saw do it? - ya probably


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I am getting tired of it really. We cant do anything anymore outside of our own homes that is not being potentially recorded in some way or the other. Where will it be in 20 years? Lets not fool ourselves. The kids watching that dance could put one on for the rest of us that would make the majority blush. I am astounded at what teens are up to today. Makes my teen years seem so tame its laughable. The part that really surprises me is that people like these two teachers are so incredibly dumb that they dont think about the possible outcome of such actions in public. Everything is being recorded.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Of course some have seen, heard, done, read about, these exact or worse things, but that's not the point. The point is that a school is not the place for it, school teachers are not supposed to behave in such a way, and higher standards of dignity, respect, example, and decorum are expected and demanded of schools and teachers. Note also that this could not have been accidental or spontaneous, forethought was a fact of the matter. With that follows intent.

I know a great many high school age kids by virtue of having kids in their teens and early twenties, and dozens of music students. I would bet they'd all be uncomfortable with this, and many of them disappointed in those teachers. Beyond the adolescent giggling sensationalist response will be a deeply rooted childlike sense that wrong is wrong. A sort of "OMG, WTF" incredulousness. 

Peace, Mooh.


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

lbrown1 said:


> were the kids who were there really disturbed by what they saw? - likely not .....uncomfortable because of who they saw do it? - ya probably


that's a good point. yes, it was a very stupid thing for the teachers to do, but the moral outrage from some of the kids is pretty silly.
from the article: _"It looked like, dare I say it, sex on the dance floor," said Heather Mason, 17. "Stuff kids shouldn't be seeing. I was shocked"_

Heather, you've never been to a field party? dare i say it, you need to get out more.


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

This isn't about..."be careful, this might be recorded". This is about human decency, knowing the difference between right and wrong and conducting oneself accordingly. We're all in trouble if our greatest deterrent to these kinds of actions is whether or not it might be recorded. On the other hand, the thought of being recorded is what insights a lot of fools into adverse behaviour. I consider what happened in this high school as just another example of people wanting to further stretch the boundaries of what is considered decent. They stretch a little farther, so does our tolerance and before you know it, it becomes acceptable...and so it goes

Swervin


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

This is about adults trying to prove to children that they are "cool". Never a good situation.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Exactly why I don't do face book have seen to many idiots lose jobs and other things because they or one of their great friends posted something inappropriate onto their page, think Micheal Phelps and that is what the world is these days instant ungratifying news at a heart beat.Ship...................oh and thats like idiot parents who want to be their kids friends, if they wanted more friends they would go out and get them , from us they want structure and limitations no matter what they say, its not what they want.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

All good points, but I think the real danger is hypocrisy. Nothing made my parent's words hollower than hypocrisy. The speed with which technology has been changing has outpaced our ability to deal with it in many cases. Perhaps in this regard parents are struggling to deal with the technology their children have free access to and it's applications for which they've no history of how to deal with themselves. The "blind leading the blind" as it were.

Shawn.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

bottom line is, there are accepted rules for public behavior. those rules are determined in part by your status and position. one person or another may think they are too strict or too lenient. their opinion isn't worth a fig in the real world. what is, is what is. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that kind of public display would lead to trouble for someone in that position. that's the way the world works. maybe not in 50 years, but today that's how it is. so in the end, one is responsible for how they behave in a given situation. not the other way around


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Two different topics here. I'll deal with the one that counts - the two teachers were way out of line. Period. Had it have been done at a stag and doe surrounded by drunk friends it still would have gotten a bad rap - I mean really pick two of your friends that you'd like to watch grind on each other for a couple minutes...... no thanks. For it to have happened at a student pep rally is just inexcusable. And the other issue ...... about getting caught ...... right


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

Rugburn said:


> All good points, but I think the real danger is hypocrisy. Nothing made my parent's words hollower than hypocrisy. The speed with which technology has been changing has outpaced our ability to deal with it in many cases. Perhaps in this regard parents are struggling to deal with the technology their children have free access to and it's applications for which they've no history of how to deal with themselves. The "blind leading the blind" as it were.
> 
> Shawn.


now there you go with that common sense again....what did i tell you about that?
seriously... you are on the money here talking about the fact that our world is changing at a pace never seen before. parents have few points of reference to explain world events to their children. when most of us were kids we didn't have Internet and Video and Digital cameras and instant messaging. its a whole new ballgame out there. and its hard to apply the old rules in the same way.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

More in the news



> WINNIPEG - The youngster behind the camera for Winnipeg's raunchy teachers video says the controversy over what she shot is way out of proportion.
> 
> Saigha Vincent, 14, said the two teachers in her "lap dance" video should not be severely disciplined for the steamy performance they gave last week at a students rally in Churchill High School's gymnasium.
> 
> ...


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

my question is, would you want these people to be the one influencing your kids? of course we all (as teenagers) have done more outrageous stuff. but that's not the point, imo. i sent _my_ kids to school to learn reading, math, science, etc. in no way was it ever my intention that they learn to exhibit promiscuous behavior in an inappropriate public setting. any school's intention is to create an academic atmosphere. can you honestly say that if it were otherwise that you would allow your child to attend? do you spend tax dollars or tuition money to teach your kids keg party sociability? when my oldest boy came home with a letter stating that all students were going to learn ebonics i immediately called the school board. i also told the school i would be removing my son from school during that period. many other parents did the same. they cancelled that idea quick enough. it's not their job to undermine your morals or your standards of acceptable behavior. they are there to teach academics and nothing more. it's up to you to see to that. otherwise, you're a lax parent, and you do a disservice to your kids.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

cheezyridr said:


> my question is, would you want these people to be the one influencing your kids? of course we all (as teenagers) have done more outrageous stuff. but that's not the point, imo. i sent _my_ kids to school to learn reading, math, science, etc. in no way was it ever my intention that they learn to exhibit promiscuous behavior in an inappropriate public setting. any school's intention is to create an academic atmosphere. can you honestly say that if it were otherwise that you would allow your child to attend? do you spend tax dollars or tuition money to teach your kids keg party sociability? when my oldest boy came home with a letter stating that all students were going to learn ebonics i immediately called the school board. i also told the school i would be removing my son from school during that period. many other parents did the same. they cancelled that idea quick enough. it's not their job to undermine your morals or your standards of acceptable behavior. they are there to teach academics and nothing more. it's up to you to see to that. otherwise, you're a lax parent, and you do a disservice to your kids.


Some good points, but then you can get into the whole debate as to what is considered appropriate and what is not, who gets to say what is or what is not... goes on and on. My method was "hey, kids, you are going to see all kinds of stuff out there, here is my thoughts on it, you make up your mind now as to what is right and what is wrong and if you should participate". I tried not to clone them into me, as I most likely see the world much differently then a teenager. What I think is right may not be in todays world.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

cheezyridr said:


> when my oldest boy came home with a letter stating that all students were going to learn ebonics i immediately called the school board.


Man, I wish they had taught Ebonics when I was in high school. I woulda been all over dat ballerific shizzizle fo' sho!!

Shawn.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Rugburn said:


> Man, I wish they had taught Ebonics when I was in high school. I woulda been all over dat ballerific shizzizle fo' sho!!
> 
> Shawn.


that gave me a good laugh


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## TeleTessa (Feb 26, 2010)

I am a highschool teacher and this has caused numerous discussions in the staff room and in personal conversations. As a teacher I find it disgusting, as a parent I find it frightening because I see this type of behaviour happening more throughout my profession. We actually have symposiums dedicated to appropriate teacher vs. student conduct of behaviour. The fact that there is a need for having this type of discussion on an agenda, is without question disturbing to say the least. I can also safely say that I have never worked with or met a teacher who would consider this appropriate. However, that does not discount the fact that there are teachers out there engaging in criminal-like behaviour, in my opinion.


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## TeleTessa (Feb 26, 2010)

Teaching is about providing an educational environment that should include fun, laughter and above anything else, learning. But when a teacher walks through the doors of a school, whether or not they are at the front of their classroom, they assume the role of teacher immediately. While I realize that this was a pep rally and sometimes hair is let down, there comes a time when a teacher makes a choice as to what is appropriate and clearly here, they made a choice that is without question inappropriate behaviour. They are well loved teachers by staff and students and while that may be true; they did the wrong thing and any teacher engaging in overtly sexual behaviour has made a choice to forget their fundamental reason for being there in the first place.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

TeleTessa said:


> I am a highschool teacher and this has caused numerous discussions in the staff room and in personal conversations. As a teacher I find it disgusting, as a parent I find it frightening because I see this type of behaviour happening more throughout my profession. We actually have symposiums dedicated to appropriate teacher vs. student conduct of behaviour. The fact that there is a need for having this type of discussion on an agenda, is without question disturbing to say the least. I can also safely say that I have never worked with or met a teacher who would consider this appropriate. However, that does not discount the fact that there are teachers out there engaging in criminal-like behaviour, in my opinion.


Wow, I'm not a high school teacher, but I know a couple of people who are, and I'd be surprised if they considered the need for teacher vs. student conduct seminars *"disturbing to say the least". * Nor would I expect them to describe this inappropriate, stupid, and salacious display as* "criminal-like".* To each their own as they say.

Shawn.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Rugburn said:


> Man, I wish they had taught Ebonics when I was in high school. I woulda been all over dat ballerific shizzizle fo' sho!!
> 
> Shawn.


Hey - sounds like you coulda taught the course!


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## TeleTessa (Feb 26, 2010)

I can now understand that you misunderstood what I wrote, and I see in hindsight that I didn't make it clear. The dance was not criminal-like, but sadly as we all know there has been a constant onslaught of teachers being caught in sexual acts and child abuse behaviour with their students. That behaviour is criminal. This was just completely inappropriate. And there are seminars upon seminars about appropriate behaviour which is becoming more necessary. I've been teaching for 20 years and the need wasnt there when we started but it is now. But it IS acts like the dance that further instill into teachers everywhere that this is just not how to educate.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

When it comes to the teaching profession, there are more people needed, and practicing, in the profession, than are actually cut out for it. That's probably true of a lot of professions where people are entrusted with serving the public interest directly or indirectly (e.g., health professionals, civil servants, politicians, social workers, etc.), but in this case we happen to be talking about teachers.

When I used to teach, I made it a point of being friendly towards, but not friends _with_, my students. Not that they weren't often worthy of friendship. Rather, in any sort of working relationship where there is ultimately an imbalance of power, one will eventually have to pull rank. And, speaking from experience, there are few things that make you feel as crappy as someone whom you THOUGHT was your friend ordering you to do something you don't want to do, and having the power to compel you. It is a special kind of betrayal. When teachers try too hard to be "cool" to their students, they cross that line, and set the students up for that betrayal. Maybe not immediately, but eventually, one of those teachers is going to have to demand something from a student, whether homework, a note, attendance, or whatnot. The demand will be "Because I said so!!", and the student will feel like crap.

The lack of insight about that scenario is but one among many why these two are not cut out for the profession.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...what i find MOST interesting about this entire non-event is that many of the same parents who so strenuously object to their teenage "children" witnessing a display like this have no problem with those same teeange children, or even younger, watching grown men beat each other to a pulp in sports such as boxing, wrestling, hockey and ufc.

i'm also VERY cusrious to know what is immoral about eubonics...





cheezyridr said:


> my question is, would you want these people to be the one influencing your kids? of course we all (as teenagers) have done more outrageous stuff. but that's not the point, imo. i sent _my_ kids to school to learn reading, math, science, etc. in no way was it ever my intention that they learn to exhibit promiscuous behavior in an inappropriate public setting. any school's intention is to create an academic atmosphere. can you honestly say that if it were otherwise that you would allow your child to attend? do you spend tax dollars or tuition money to teach your kids keg party sociability? when my oldest boy came home with a letter stating that all students were going to learn ebonics i immediately called the school board. i also told the school i would be removing my son from school during that period. many other parents did the same. they cancelled that idea quick enough. it's not their job to undermine your morals or your standards of acceptable behavior. they are there to teach academics and nothing more. it's up to you to see to that. otherwise, you're a lax parent, and you do a disservice to your kids.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Swervin55 said:


> This isn't about..."be careful, this might be recorded". This is about human decency, knowing the difference between right and wrong and conducting oneself accordingly. We're all in trouble if our greatest deterrent to these kinds of actions is whether or not it might be recorded. On the other hand, the thought of being recorded is what insights a lot of fools into adverse behaviour. I consider what happened in this high school as just another example of people wanting to further stretch the boundaries of what is considered decent. They stretch a little farther, so does our tolerance and before you know it, it becomes acceptable...and so it goes
> 
> Swervin


...oh, no! its the end of the world as we know it.

personally, when men stop slaughtering each other, that's when i'll begin to worry about public displays of human sexuality being "decent" or not...


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

david henman said:


> i'm also VERY cusrious to know what is immoral about eubonics...


maybe you already know this, so, don't be offended if that's the case. ebonics is ghetto speak. it's not a legitimate language like french or spanish or something. learning to speak and write another language enhances your ability to communicate. it also can serve to make you a more valued employee in many cases. this cannot be said of ebonics. it is the job of the public school system to educate our children, not to teach them how to be gangster/ghetto crawlers/convicts. i'd be willing to bet $20 that you never met abe lincoln.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

dude, me and abe lincoln go way back.
i am aware that ebonics is ghetto speak.
but i wasn't aware that it undermines the morals of our children.
i guess you'll have to enlighten me.





cheezyridr said:


> maybe you already know this, so, don't be offended if that's the case. ebonics is ghetto speak. it's not a legitimate language like french or spanish or something. learning to speak and write another language enhances your ability to communicate. it also can serve to make you a more valued employee in many cases. this cannot be said of ebonics. it is the job of the public school system to educate our children, not to teach them how to be gangster/ghetto crawlers/convicts. i'd be willing to bet $20 that you never met abe lincoln.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

david henman said:


> i guess you'll have to enlighten me.


i'll have to leave that task to someone more qualified than myself.


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