# floppy disks?



## Guest (Jan 9, 2017)

Creating space in one of my desk drawers, I have a pile of old floppy's
that are obsolete/useless that I'll wind up just just tossing in the garbage.
Before dumping, I did a quick googlin' to see if there's any use for them.
Besides skeet shooting at a buddy's farm, I can't really think of anything.


----------



## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)




----------



## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

unless those floppys are abnormally large, that means shredder and the shark are both about 40" tall


----------



## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> unless those floppys are abnormally large, that means shredder and the shark are both about 40" tall


maybe they were the bigger floppies...


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

I still use them with the older systems and I have 2 usb drives for the newer systems. If what you have are "factory made" Win 98 and earlier put an ad on Kijij. Especially if they are discs for early gaming systems and systems like my Atari 1040ST.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

zontar said:


> maybe they were the bigger floppies...


They look like 3.5"m not 5.25 or 8"


----------



## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> They look like 3.5"m not 5.25 or 8"


True enough--maybe just poor perspective in the artwork...


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

I still have 2 unopened boxes of 10 that I used with my Brother data recorder (which I still Have). I used it to play jam tracks before mp3's came out. Maybe they'll be worth something some day if I can live that long.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The 8-inch ones were the ones that initially begat the name "floppy". The 5-1/4" ones could still be bent, if you wanted, but didn't wobble on their own. The change to a rigid plastic case and sliding metal door in the 3-1/2" format got them called "diskettes" instead, but the "floppy" descriptor still hung around among those who had used the earlier formats. I suppose what legitimates continued use of the term is that the magnetic disc inside the plastic shell was just as pliable as ever.

I don't have any 8", but do have a couple boxes of 5-1/4 and a couple of 5-1/4 drives (single-sided) in the garage. I like to hang on to older technology.

I do know that some folks have adapted disks/drives to be delay units. At least they wouldn't suffer from the risk of stretching like tape loops would.


----------



## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

mhammer said:


> I do know that some folks have adapted disks/drives to be delay units. At least they wouldn't suffer from the risk of stretching like tape loops would.


Thats cool!

This is what I like to do to floppy disks:


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Took me a coupla seconds to realize what that little bit of "origami" was intended to resemble. Love it!


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

yo yo yo


----------



## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

You should save them. Everything old comes around again. Look how many people are buying vinyl.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

cheezyridr said:


> unless those floppys are abnormally large, that means shredder and the shark are both about 40" tall


5 1/4" vs 3.5" - even more retro.


.... also we had these at work for a while (tossed the jukebox that used them years ago, but I kept one of the unused disks for the lolz):










And no, I am not Trump incognito (or related to him, thus inheriting the small hands gene). It's actually a writable 12" laser disc (remember those?) inside a floppy-disk-looking cartridge.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lord-Humongous said:


> You should save them. Everything old comes around again. Look how many people are buying vinyl.


Vinyl is an excellent and useful medium. There were many who never really stopped using it, my self included. Taken care of vinyl will never degrade to the point of not being useable like digital media. Which is why it can be used for long term archival.


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Superglue them to a bathroom wall.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Couldn't put much porn on them.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mhammer said:


> The 8-inch ones were the ones that initially begat the name "floppy". The 5-1/4" ones could still be bent, if you wanted, but didn't wobble on their own. The change to a rigid plastic case and sliding metal door in the 3-1/2" format got them called "diskettes" instead, but the "floppy" descriptor still hung around among those who had used the earlier formats. I suppose what legitimates continued use of the term is that the magnetic disc inside the plastic shell was just as pliable as ever.
> 
> I don't have any 8", but do have a couple boxes of 5-1/4 and a couple of 5-1/4 drives (single-sided) in the garage. I like to hang on to older technology.
> 
> I do know that some folks have adapted disks/drives to be delay units. At least they wouldn't suffer from the risk of stretching like tape loops would.


It's the 8'' ones that are worth the most money.


----------



## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Diablo said:


> Couldn't put much porn on them.











Check out those pixels!


Sent from my other brain.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> Vinyl is an excellent and useful medium. There were many who never really stopped using it, my self included. *Taken care of vinyl will never degrade to the point of not being useable like digital media.* Which is why it can be used for long term archival.



What? Vinyl is a physical media. Perhaps it never degrades to point of not working at all, but every time you pass a stylus over the grooves, you are wearing it out. You can't reduce stylus or tracking pressure to zero. Hi-end hi-fi snobs count the number of passes any vinyl has to 'tolerate' and believe a record is dead after a certain number of plays (some in the range of 20 to 50). And the nuances, the minuscule high-freq timing details that analog does better than digital, are the first to go. So they are right - if your playback resolution is high enough.

That was one of the first selling points of laser, non-contact storage. You don't wear it out as you read it. Of course we know now that optical media doesn't last forever either, and (like all digital stuff) it either works or doesn't. It doesn't gradually degrade over time, like analog media. But at least you have to play vinyl to ruin it, tapes go bad on their own.


----------



## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

mhammer said:


> The 8-inch ones were the ones that initially begat the name "floppy". The 5-1/4" ones could still be bent, if you wanted, but didn't wobble on their own. The change to a rigid plastic case and sliding metal door in the 3-1/2" format got them called "diskettes" instead, but the "floppy" descriptor still hung around among those who had used the earlier formats. I suppose what legitimates continued use of the term is that the magnetic disc inside the plastic shell was just as pliable as ever.
> 
> I don't have any 8", but do have a couple boxes of 5-1/4 and a couple of 5-1/4 drives (single-sided) in the garage. I like to hang on to older technology.
> 
> I do know that some folks have adapted disks/drives to be delay units. At least they wouldn't suffer from the risk of stretching like tape loops would.


We started calling the 3.5" diskettes, "Crunchies" shortly after they came to market.

I tossed out most of my crunchies, but kept some because our digital piano has a 3.5" drive so that it can read and play midi files.
I think I still have some 5.25" floppies with some code that I wrote back in the day.
8" floppies were never a thing for me except as a show and tell thing in high school computer classes. Maybe we had one for the Commodore PETs in the lab, but we were never allowed to touch it. It was "networked" to the whole lab.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> What? Vinyl is a physical media. Perhaps it never degrades to point of not working at all, but every time you pass a stylus over the grooves, you are wearing it out. You can't reduce stylus or tracking pressure to zero. Hi-end hi-fi snobs count the number of passes any vinyl has to 'tolerate' and believe a record is dead after a certain number of plays (some in the range of 20 to 50). And the nuances, the minuscule high-freq timing details that analog does better than digital, are the first to go. So they are right - if your playback resolution is high enough.
> 
> .


I'm talking more about in a storage capacity. The vinyl itself won't break down like CD's and most magnetic types of storage will, which is why it can be used for archiving historical documentation.
I have vinyl from the 70's that has been played probably a couple thousand times that still sounds great with very little to no noticeable degradation. 
These high end hi fi snobs will have vaccum based RCM's, or even ultrasonic RCMS and take better care of their vinyl than their kids. 
I've brought home garage sale record finds that were so filthy and noisy on the turntable that once I cleaned them with my 4 step AVIS products on my RCM they played like CD's. Yes vinyl can be physically damaged but if you're careful and keep the vinyl and cartridge\needle clean those records will last 3 lifetimes easy.
Some hifi experts view vinyl degredation due to play a myth. But that all depends on your equipment and how finely tuned it is.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> What? Vinyl is a physical media. Perhaps it never degrades to point of not working at all, but every time you pass a stylus over the grooves, you are wearing it out. You can't reduce stylus or tracking pressure to zero. Hi-end hi-fi snobs count the number of passes any vinyl has to 'tolerate' and believe a record is dead after a certain number of plays (some in the range of 20 to 50). And the nuances, the minuscule high-freq timing details that analog does better than digital, are the first to go. So they are right - if your playback resolution is high enough.
> 
> That was one of the first selling points of laser, non-contact storage. You don't wear it out as you read it. Of course we know now that optical media doesn't last forever either, and (like all digital stuff) it either works or doesn't. It doesn't gradually degrade over time, like analog media. But at least you have to play vinyl to ruin it, tapes go bad on their own.


Thinking naively, it should have been possible for a zero-pressure "laser stylus" to have been invented for playing vinyl, such that grooves could be read without eroding them. But of course, doggone reality sets in and one realizes that there is no way to have the tracking arm "know" how much to move over for each concentric groove. The physical width of the groove depends on how much program/source material is on a side and what sort of dynamic range is employed. The grooves of 24 minutes of highly-compressed content are of a different width than the grooves of a 12-minute extended play single for the dance floor with huge bass and dynamic range. So, unfortunately, where the movement of a physical stylus along a continuous groove is easy to implement (the physical disc "drags" the needle along), a tone arm that makes no physical contact with the disc and reads the light bouncing off the groove has to know in advance how far to move over, and that part is unpredictable.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

mhammer said:


> Thinking naively, it should have been possible for a zero-pressure "laser stylus" to have been invented for playing vinyl, such that grooves could be read without eroding them. But of course, doggone reality sets in and one realizes that there is no way to have the tracking arm "know" how much to move over for each concentric groove. The physical width of the groove depends on how much program/source material is on a side and what sort of dynamic range is employed. The grooves of 24 minutes of highly-compressed content are of a different width than the grooves of a 12-minute extended play single for the dance floor with huge bass and dynamic range. So, unfortunately, where the movement of a physical stylus along a continuous groove is easy to implement (the physical disc "drags" the needle along), a tone arm that makes no physical contact with the disc and reads the light bouncing off the groove has to know in advance how far to move over, and that part is unpredictable.


If they can make a car drive between two painted lines - and not hit any 'ugly bags of mostly water' - tracking a groove should be child's play. But that ship has sailed - no one wants to pay for better quality, they all want more crappy soundfiles on their thumbdrive.

@guitarman2 I would put any audio expert who called vinyl degradation a myth in the same category as an astronomy who subscribes to the flat earth theory. Credentials extremely suspect.


----------



## Guest (Jan 11, 2017)

High/Deaf said:


> Hi-end hi-fi snobs count the number of passes any vinyl has to 'tolerate' and believe a record is
> dead after a certain number of plays (some in the range of 20 to 50).





guitarman2 said:


> Yes vinyl can be physically damaged but if you're careful and keep the vinyl and cartridge\needle
> clean those records will last 3 lifetimes easy. Some hifi experts view vinyl degredation due to
> play a myth. But that all depends on your equipment and how finely tuned it is.


I would say that maybe 60% of my LP's (~300) have only been played once.
When I bought my first cassette recorder to add to my stereo, I also bought
Maxell tapes by the box (10 per) and recorded the new album on the first play.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> @guitarman2 I would put any audio expert who called vinyl degradation a myth in the same category as an astronomy who subscribes to the flat earth theory. Credentials extremely suspect.


I would tend to agree but I would question the theory that audible degradation has been reached at 25 to 50 plays. As long as the vinyl has been meticoulosly cleaned, stored and played on a high quality table that has been professionally tuned I doubt audible degradation would occur after 300 plays. 
I'm quite diligent in cleaning vinyl and keeping my stylus cleaned cleaner, an onzow zero dust and sometimes magic eraser. When I had bought a Rega P3 with the factory installed Elys 2 cartridge some years ago, I used that cartridge for about 2 and a half years daily use. Probably had 600 hours of use on it. I took it back to my stereo guy in Waterloo to trade it in for an upgraded exact 2 cartridge. He put it under his 300x magnifier and he said he was shocked how clean it looked. He said it looked like maybe 10% used which for the amount of hours was astounding. Vinyl is a lot of work but if you are OCD about care and maintenance those vinyl records will last virtually forever.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

laristotle said:


> I would say that maybe 60% of my LP's (~300) have only been played once.
> When I bought my first cassette recorder to add to my stereo, I also bought
> Maxell tapes by the box (10 per) and recorded the new album on the first play.


I did that back in the 80's. I do now have just about everything in digital format that I play through my high end DAC but some vinyl sources just sound better to me played on vinyl. I hardly ever use it anymore but once in a while its nice.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The extent of degradation is not only a function of tonearm mass, number of plays, and needle status, but also the degree of lubrication. Keep in mind that while the tonearm and cartridge itself does not weigh very much, whatever mass it has is focussed on a VERY small pressure point, and that such pressure creates friction and heat, which is part of what damages the vinyl. less mass is great, but less mass with effective lubrication and cooling is even better. I haven't had a stereo set up in well over a decade (), but one of the things I used to do was simply spray my albums with water, before setting the tonearm down. The water helped to reduce static, and also provided cooling. Naturally, one would use distilled water to keep mineral content to a blessed minimum.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

mhammer said:


> The extent of degradation is not only a function of tonearm mass, number of plays, and needle status, but also the degree of lubrication. Keep in mind that while the tonearm and cartridge itself does not weigh very much, whatever mass it has is focussed on a VERY small pressure point, and that such pressure creates friction and heat, which is part of what damages the vinyl. less mass is great, but less mass with effective lubrication and cooling is even better. I haven't had a stereo set up in well over a decade (), but one of the things I used to do was simply spray my albums with water, before setting the tonearm down. The water helped to reduce static, and also provided cooling. Naturally, one would use distilled water to keep mineral content to a blessed minimum.


I can't imagine water being good for them, other than keeping static down. I probably wouldn't use anything but lab grade water either. When I had rega turntables they came with those annoying felt mats that increased static electricity, which will cause damage. I used to lightly spray water just above the felt mat before play to cut it down. Eventually I replaced the stock felt platter with the Groove Tracer Delrin platter that didn't require a mat at all. 
I don't think I'd spray water directly on my vinyl before play. Theres a reason that I can't remember that you shouldn't play vinyl wet. I read about it at audiokarm.org.


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

guitarman2 said:


> I don't think I'd spray water directly on my vinyl before play. Theres a reason that I can't remember that you shouldn't play vinyl wet. I read about it at audiokarm.org.


That's shocking.


----------



## Guest (Jan 11, 2017)

guitarman2 said:


> .. some vinyl sources just sound better to me played on vinyl.


To me, nothing beats the 'pop and hiss' you hear when you drop the needle.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I have hundreds of 45s that I deliberately leave out of their dust jackets, rubbing up against each other, precisely for that reason.

I mean, cripes, does "Wooly Bully" or "I Get Around" _improve _with delicate handling?


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

guitarman2 said:


> I would tend to agree but I would question the theory that audible degradation has been reached at 25 to 50 plays. As long as the vinyl has been meticoulosly cleaned, stored and played on a high quality table that has been professionally tuned I doubt audible degradation would occur after 300 plays.
> I'm quite diligent in cleaning vinyl and keeping my stylus cleaned cleaner, an onzow zero dust and sometimes magic eraser. When I had bought a Rega P3 with the factory installed Elys 2 cartridge some years ago, I used that cartridge for about 2 and a half years daily use. Probably had 600 hours of use on it. I took it back to my stereo guy in Waterloo to trade it in for an upgraded exact 2 cartridge. He put it under his 300x magnifier and he said he was shocked how clean it looked. He said it looked like maybe 10% used which for the amount of hours was astounding. Vinyl is a lot of work but if you are OCD about care and maintenance those vinyl records will last virtually forever.


Agree - I'm not going to trust the ears of someone that thinks a $500 6 foot power cable makes an audible difference to his sound system when there's miles of romex between him and the generating station. Play wear is a real thing, but those numbers are easily an order of magnitude off. Probably confused with the vynil getting dirty, which happens almost instantly after removing it from the shrink the first time.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

guitarman2 said:


> I would tend to agree but I would question the theory that audible degradation has been reached at 25 to 50 plays. As long as the vinyl has been meticoulosly cleaned, stored and played on a high quality table that has been professionally tuned I doubt audible degradation would occur after 300 plays.
> I'm quite diligent in cleaning vinyl and keeping my stylus cleaned cleaner, an onzow zero dust and sometimes magic eraser. When I had bought a Rega P3 with the factory installed Elys 2 cartridge some years ago, I used that cartridge for about 2 and a half years daily use. Probably had 600 hours of use on it. I took it back to my stereo guy in Waterloo to trade it in for an upgraded exact 2 cartridge. He put it under his 300x magnifier and he said he was shocked how clean it looked. He said it looked like maybe 10% used which for the amount of hours was astounding. Vinyl is a lot of work but if you are OCD about care and maintenance those vinyl records will last virtually forever.


Agree - I'm not going to trust the ears of someone that thinks a $500 6 foot power cable makes an audible difference to his sound system when there's miles of romex between him and the generating station. Play wear is a real thing, but those numbers are easily an order of magnitude off. Probably confused with the vinyl getting dirty, which happens almost instantly after removing it from the shrink the first time.



guitarman2 said:


> Theres a reason that I can't remember that you shouldn't play vinyl wet. I read about it at audiokarm.org.


Damages the labels.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Damages the labels.



Was just reading some info on a forum. Too lazy to get in to the technical aspects but its to do with damage to the vinyl it self and potential damage to the cartridge\cantilever. Although the consensus from both sides of the argument was once you play it wet you must always play it wet.
The myth that the wetness cools the vinyl down to prevent damage was dispelled as well. The vinyl only really heats up about 1 to 2 degreess according to the experts. Just enough for it to flex. That makes sense. If vinyl heated up much more than that it would damage the vinyl beyond playability.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

I have no dog in that race, that was mostly a joke because obviously, it does damage the labels and that's enuf reason for me to just not discuss or investigate it further.

... then again, there are those liquid-based vinyl washing systems people seem to swear by.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Granny Gremlin said:


> ... then again, there are those liquid-based vinyl washing systems people seem to swear by.


I've owned a VPI 16.5 vacuum based RCM and a Clear Audio. The beauty of them is the vacuum sucks the cleaning fluid and the dirt right out of the grooves. The real magic is the cleaning product you use. The I've used is the 3 step AIVS and the 4 step Walker audio. Both of those are amazing products and paired with an RCM I've got amazing results in cleaning vinyl. The first step in both products is the enzyme cleaner that will kill any mold from years of storage or even the molds used from the pressing machines. 
I've gotten some of my vinyl to be as silent as CD's in between tracks. I don't own those cleaners now as I'm not as heavily in to vinyl as I once was. I don't even own a table right now but I am looking for a lower priced one for occasional use. Then I'll probably build my own RCM from an old table and a shop vac.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

I have records from around 1895 to around 1980. I usually play them on record players from the late 40's and early 50's. Playing a 78 or even a 45 on a record player 2010 doesn't sound right. I clean the records with soapy water and dry them with a cloth. how often can you play a record before the sound degrades? Does it matter?


----------



## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

that floppy disk delay thing sounds pretty neat


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> I would tend to agree but I would question the theory that audible degradation has been reached at 25 to 50 plays. As long as the vinyl has been meticoulosly cleaned, stored and played on a high quality table that has been professionally tuned I doubt audible degradation would occur after 300 plays.


It really depends on the resolution of your playback system and how cruel your tone arm/cartridge is to the vinyl. Some people claim they can hear different types of glue in a guitar. That, too, could be debated for a long time.



> I did that back in the 80's. I do now have just about everything in digital format that I play through my high end DAC but some vinyl sources just sound better to me played on vinyl. I hardly ever use it anymore but once in a while its nice.


I agree. Especially real acoustic events recorded in real time, as compared to a multitrack recording assembled in post. I started replacing a lot of my classical recordings (where CD paled in comparison, IMO) with SACD, but the format blew up before I got everything I wanted (anyone got a nice SACD copy of Karajan's Beethoven VII?)


----------



## Guest (Jan 13, 2017)




----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Nope. The reason they say that is exactly the same reason that the kids today think MP3s and iphone earbuds or Beat by Dre shitphones are just fine; it's what you're used to.

Very few things were actually better in the past; they may have been the way you prefer, but those 2 things aren't the same.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Nope. The reason they say that is exactly the same reason that the kids today think MP3s and iphone earbuds or Beat by Dre shitphones are just fine; it's what you're used to.
> 
> Very few things were actually better in the past; they may have been the way you prefer, but those 2 things aren't the same.


Yep, exposure is a huge part of it. I grew up with those console stereos that looked OK (if you like that sort of thing) but sounded horrid. I was ripe for better audio - and no one in my era had personal audio players (we had kazoo's, that was it). I started buying my own hi-fi gear when I was 14. It was bad, but the mold was cast. I still remember how significantly the planet shifted on its axis the first time I heard Magneplanars. OMFG! I was hooked on good sound and would never go back.

These kids started listening to their parents decent hi-fi systems and take them for granted. They don't know what they are giving up. @laristotle post has some validity as well. 


Oh yea, and get the hell off my lawn.............


----------

