# Anyone else find this a suspicious death?



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Maybe I've watched too many crime dramas but this seems like it could be something other than two people innocently walking off a cliff.





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Two missing hikers found dead at Jasper National Park: RCMP






www.msn.com


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Maybe one slipped and the other grabbed them but was pulled down with them? Experienced hikers are more cautionary, but as suspicious as it sounds, it could be a freak accident.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Yes it could be and I hope that's what it ends up being.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Could be the trail collapsed or someone slipped or they both decided to say screw it. Might have run into a bear or two, too.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

As an aside, because I won’t play detective based on what the media says, I saw the pics from that story before on a site and wondered why they used a pic of when she was 12 yrs old, when she’s supposed to be 25.
not to make light of it... but she looks oddly younger than her age in some pics.

regardless, an unfortunate tragedy.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Diablo said:


> As an aside, because I won’t play detective based on what the media says, I saw the pics from that story before on a site and wondered why they used a pic of when she was 12 yrs old, when she’s supposed to be 25.
> not to make light of it... but she looks oddly younger than her age in some pics.
> 
> regardless, an unfortunate tragedy.


Noticed that too.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

My guess: You've watched too many crime dramas. Personally, and factually for that matter, I found nothing in the article that raised even the faintest whiff of suspicion.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

does seem a bit odd that they both fell. could have been a rock/landslide? or a wet patch

doesn't really say much about where they were. probably not your average gravel walkway though


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

bolero said:


> does seem a bit odd that they both fell. could have been a rock/landslide? or a wet patch
> 
> doesn't really say much about where they were. probably not your average gravel walkway though


Believe it or not, a lot of drownings happen in pretty much the same way as this might have.

One person slips in (or off) and the second person perishes trying to save the first.


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## Grainslayer (Sep 26, 2016)

Milkman said:


> Believe it or not, a lot of drownings happen in pretty much the same way as this might have.
> 
> One person slips in (or off) and the second person perishes trying to save the first.


I agree.Its amazing how you can throw yourself into a bad situation to save someone else.I spend a lot of time hiking the back country of BC by myself and have had a few close calls due to fatigue...and walking right into a grizzly once.lol


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I was listening to a podcast on how many people die or go completely missing in parks in the US. There are so many ways accidents and deaths can happen.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

Grainslayer said:


> I agree.Its amazing how you can throw yourself into a bad situation to save someone else.I spend a lot of time hiking the back country of BC by myself and have had a few close calls due to fatigue...and walking right into a grizzly once.lol


 agree: I once climbed up on a small peak behind Whistler, hiking around in the summer on my own, not really thinking it was a big deal

until I turned around to go back down, and had ZERO visibility over a lot of the ledges I'd crawled over easily!

plus it was awkward climbing backwards. I had to do a few blind drops, hoping I'd land on a ledge. it was steep, and if I'd slipped I would have tumbled a long way through boulders and scree, and nobody would have found me.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Milkman said:


> Believe it or not, a lot of drownings happen in pretty much the same way as this might have.
> 
> One person slips in (or off) and the second person perishes trying to save the first.


Yup. You may be a dam fine swimmer, but you try to save someone who's totally insane with panic, who's trying to crawl onto your head to get out of the water, and it can easily end badly for both.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

They don’t mention the weather. Clouds can move in very quickly in the mountains. It is very easy to lose your sense of direction when all the reference points are suddenly gone.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Kerry Brown said:


> There don’t mention the weather. Clouds can move in very quickly in the mountains. It is very easy to lose your sense of direction when all the reference points are suddenly gone.


Fog and tide on the Island can be just as bad. Hiked the Westcoast Trail with my first wife in 1971 and we had to spend the night in the wrong spot when things rolled in.
I've hiked the falls and this can happen all to easily.








Missing hikers found dead


The search for three hikers who went missing at Shannon Falls has ended in tragedy.




www.ctvnews.ca


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## Grainslayer (Sep 26, 2016)

Kerry Brown said:


> There don’t mention the weather. Clouds can move in very quickly in the mountains. It is very easy to lose your sense of direction when all the reference points are suddenly gone.


I used to live in Squamish back in my mountain biking days.I was surprised a few times how fast the weather would change.It would get crazy windy up the valley.Kyte boarders seemed to love it though.


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## Grainslayer (Sep 26, 2016)

Electraglide said:


> Missing hikers found dead
> 
> 
> The search for three hikers who went missing at Shannon Falls has ended in tragedy.
> ...


North shore search and rescue are probably the most called search and rescue unit.They are always busy..Sadly they have to risk their lives way to much to save stupid people.i just saw a new missing person alert tonight for someone believed to be missing around Squamish/Alice lake.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Grainslayer said:


> North shore search and rescue are probably the most called search and rescue unit.They are always busy..Sadly they have to risk their lives way to much to save stupid people.i just saw a new missing person alert tonight for someone believed to be missing around Squamish/Alice lake.


It's easy enough to do in that area, same with Green lake.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Electraglide said:


> Fog and tide on the Island can be just as bad. Hiked the Westcoast Trail with my first wife in 1971 and we had to spend the night in the wrong spot when things rolled in.
> I've hiked the falls and this can happen all to easily.
> 
> 
> ...


Did you come back with her?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

1SweetRide said:


> Did you come back with her?


Yes. I figure if I didn't my then FIL would shoot me. He kept two of these around.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

Grainslayer said:


> North shore search and rescue are probably the most called search and rescue unit.They are always busy..Sadly they have to risk their lives way to much to save stupid people.i just saw a new missing person alert tonight for someone believed to be missing around Squamish/Alice lake.


100% It is thankless work. Especially when 90% of the time it is people that are ill-prepared or straight out oblivious of the dangers.

This is why holding people accountable for the costs associated with rescue is controversial. You can claim ignorance only to a certain point.


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## Grainslayer (Sep 26, 2016)

TheYanChamp said:


> 100% It is thankless work. Especially when 90% of the time it is people that are ill-prepared or straight out oblivious of the dangers.
> 
> This is why holding people accountable for the costs associated with rescue is controversial. You can claim ignorance only to a certain point.


The frustrating part for me is the people that know the risks but don’t care.A good example is out of bounds skiing.Skiers get into deadly situations and just expect to be saved.So maybe it’s more arrogance over stupidity. I’ve been debating joining local search and rescue and put my back country skills to work but still a bit apprehensive.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

To be honest, the experienced risk takers are not the ones that bother me. If you're experienced it means you've been out there hundreds of times in all conditions so at that point its more of a numbers game. Think of wingsuit flyers, or free-climbers - Its only a matter of time.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

What about base jumpers or those who climb tall cranes, towers and buildings. They are rushing to an early demise.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

1SweetRide said:


> What about base jumpers or those who climb tall cranes, towers and buildings. They are rushing to an early demise.



When they go splat it is a recovery, not a rescue. For sure its a tough compromise. Should the avid risk takers pay an insurance premium for their sport? How do you enforce required policies based on levels of risk one is willing to take? Make insurance mandatory with purchase of certain gear, like say a hang-glider or wing suit? - This one is my favorite.

Maybe we're on to something.

But you can't keep international students from drowning or getting caught in a snowstorm on a mountain in Oct. from dying without better education. Heck, you can get hypothermia in the middle of august in an exposed area. On a trail without spare jackets, flashlights, navigation, hydration and lack of judgement, good luck.

I've assisted with a few recoveries, and what may seem like common knowledge to most of us can be lost entirely.

Lenami Godinez Avila was one of my best friends, and unforntunatly we had to recover her from a hang gliding crash after she wasn't clipped in on her first flight. Her 'instructor' was hung over after his birthday celebrations and neglected to do a hang test to make sure her gear was clipped in. He got off without jail time regardless of swallowing the memory card that was recording the flight on multiple cameras. That, is reckless. Most people that enjoy the outdoors are not. The instructor was banned from 'instructing' in Canada, but rumor is he just went home to NZ and continues there.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

That’s a horrible disregarding of responsibility.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

1SweetRide said:


> What about base jumpers or those who climb tall cranes, towers and buildings. They are rushing to an early demise.


Only if they fall but the same can be said about people who jump out of perfectly good airplanes.
My adoptive daughter has been a member of S&R for more than 10 years. Her dad for more than 55. It's not as thankless a job as some think. They've done everything from looking for lost kids to fools skiing or snow mobileing out of bounds. All sorts of reasons why people get lost including vehicle break down and getting attacked by wild animals. I know over the years there's been call outs for Highwy 16 in B.C. too.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

TheYanChamp said:


> When they go splat it is a recovery, not a rescue. For sure its a tough compromise. Should the avid risk takers pay an insurance premium for their sport? How do you enforce required policies based on levels of risk one is willing to take? Make insurance mandatory with purchase of certain gear, like say a hang-glider or wing suit? - This one is my favorite.
> 
> Maybe we're on to something.
> 
> ...


Latest one I've seen is this.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/1-dead-others-injured-following-opening-of-cleveland-dam-in-north-vancouver-1.5747326?cmp=rss


They're not too sure if there was anyone else down stream. No way you can prepare for this. Or getting caught in a snowstorm in say July or August like it happens in B.C. on occasion.


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## Grainslayer (Sep 26, 2016)

Electraglide said:


> Latest one I've seen is this.
> 
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/1-dead-others-injured-following-opening-of-cleveland-dam-in-north-vancouver-1.5747326?cmp=rss
> ...


I watched that on the news.Talk about raging waters eh...My opinion was based more on people exploring the bc backcountry unprepared....Not base jumpers ect..I’m still not sure about those wing suit guys.Thats just so crazy.Espesially when they try and shoot through holes in rocks and fly through tight little tree lined valleys.No thanks.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

Electraglide said:


> Latest one I've seen is this.
> 
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/1-dead-others-injured-following-opening-of-cleveland-dam-in-north-vancouver-1.5747326?cmp=rss
> ...



I've canyoneered on that river and lynn creek many times. That is fucking insane! 

That infrustructure is old. Like 1910-1920ish if IIRC. I always wondered how they would replace it, just like every other fucking damn this country builds.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Grainslayer said:


> I watched that on the news.Talk about raging waters eh...My opinion was based more on people exploring the bc backcountry unprepared....Not base jumpers ect..I’m still not sure about those wing suit guys.Thats just so crazy.Espesially when they try and shoot through holes in rocks and fly through tight little tree lined valleys.No thanks.


It's not only the unprepared ones. A lot of things can happen in the back country including mistaking a game trail for a hiking trail. Even an old logging skid which there a lot of in B.C. can just end. Years ago my first ex and myself decided to hike up to Cathedral Lakes. We got lost tho I'm not too sure if that was because I'd taken her on the West Coast Trail or not. 


TheYanChamp said:


> I've canyoneered on that river and lynn creek many times. That is fucking insane!
> 
> That infrustructure is old. Like 1910-1920ish if IIRC. I always wondered how they would replace it, just like every other fucking damn this country builds.


I've fished that area. The river can be bad at the best of times. As far as damns go they are as good as any other. As far as replacing it, you'd have to build downstream and when that's done open the gates on the old one.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

Electraglide said:


> It's not only the unprepared ones. A lot of things can happen in the back country including mistaking a game trail for a hiking trail. Even an old logging skid which there a lot of in B.C. can just end. Years ago my first ex and myself decided to hike up to Cathedral Lakes. We got lost tho I'm not too sure if that was because I'd taken her on the West Coast Trail or not.
> 
> I've fished that area. The river can be bad at the best of times. As far as damns go they are as good as any other. As far as replacing it, you'd have to build downstream and when that's done open the gates on the old one.



They spend a lot of money on that watershed, so I assume the dam is in decent enough shape and they're on top of it. Until they arn't. Quick update on the tunnels, if you're interested. A most boring story - Inside the Capilano twin tunnels


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