# Anti Wal Mart



## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Someone in another thread questioned the Anti Wal mart sentiment. It's purely a personal thing for me, I dislike their business practices. Yes I'm aware that there are some folk that need to shop their, I'm not one of them. 

They make a big deal of having the lowest prices ect. Well they will have a lower price on one item of a particular thing. For example they'll have one really low low price on a microwave, yet the rest will be comparible or maybe even more than that of the competition. They also carry a negative inventory, being they do not pay for the product they receive from their vendors until the customer buys it. They are demanding and forcing other canadian businesses out of business. There are very few business on such a scale that can afford to do such things. Therefore they cannot compete. In parry Sound they opened one and next thing you know the local "mall" is pretty much closed cause many of the locals went under. 

I am in the trucking business and I once worked for a company that delivered to them. I could tell you horror stories about the way they treat the drivers.. I started my boycott around then. This was a very good movie about it. http://www.walmartmovie.com/ or http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

If you have to shop there, all the power to you. I don't and therefore I won't.

JMHO


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## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

I don't generally like them because when they first started opening they had so many Canadian flags hanging in them you knew the store had to be American as no Canadian would ever hang that many flags.

Beyond that, I just don't like how the stores always look like they're 20 years old, even when they're relatively new.


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## Michelle (Aug 21, 2006)

I guess I have a love/hate relationship with Wally World. Seems they used to have things I couldn't get anywhere else, (AC filters, CDN clothing, Max Factor, etc), then they dropped the items. I think the grocery expansion did that, a lot less of everything else. But the groceries I like for staples like coffee, cheese, sugar, 10lb bag of Jasmine rice, etc. They are priced way lower than Sobey's.

I really hate going in the store just about anytime though.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

well..i hate that place personnaly, you go there any time of the day, it's buzzing with woman EVERYWHERE..usually that's a good thing, but not when you're in a hurry..sorry, but the market for wallmart is woman it seems. in the 10 years it's been here, i think i went 2 or 3 times for gift my nefhew wanted and it was the only place they had it.

My wife...man, that's 4 times a week unfortunaly. but it did'nt use to be that way. my wife love doing painting and sowing. what happen is since it opened, the smaller shop started to disapear..so there's nowhere else to go for her.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Paul said:


> And that's different from the rest of the world how? I work for a Tier 2 automotive supplier. We ship to the customers warehouse on a consignment basis. They pay 60 days after the 15th of the month following. It works like this:
> 
> We make the product in late December. We ship January 01. The customer draws from their warehouse on January 02. The 15th of the month following is Feb 15th. They pay 60 days from then, which is April 15th. For product we made in December.
> 
> ...



I hear you and I get what you're saying. I personally don't live that way. If I don't have the cash for it, I don't buy it. Effectively what Wal Mart has done is become a storage warehouse for it's vendors. The company I work for is a Large Canadian Retailer and our vendors get paid when the freight arrives at the warehouse. NOT in 6 months time when the comsumer purchases it. FWIW we're not a competitor of Wal Mart.

Now Go Vote!


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## hoser (Feb 2, 2006)

If something's cheaper there I'll buy it there. The alternative here is like Zeller's, which is a total POS store.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Bad to quote anything that the auto industry does. It's a totally different animal then anything else out there. They do what they do becuase they have the power to do it. (At least for a few more years). Same with WalMart. They do what they do to the vendors becuase they can. If you want to sell your product at Walmart... and all vendors do... they have to play by their rules.

The Leon's and Brick comparison is void as well. They get paid from the finance company when you purchase something. It's the finance company that waits for their money and they dont mind becuase 45% of the buyers will be unable to pay for the item in full when it comes due and will get kicked right in the balls by a 30% interest rate.


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## chaploune (Jun 17, 2008)

The law of the lower price is the law of poverty.
It's a consumer trap.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

I always say, you get what you pay for.


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

"For example they'll have one really low low price on a microwave, yet the rest will be comparible or maybe even more than that of the competition."

Hate to be defending Walmart, but every retailer and many manufacturers do this. It's what they call a 'loss leader' or a 'key value item'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Paul said:


> Exactly, which is why the goals of Wal-Marts supplier programme are no different from automotive, or hardware, or white goods, or.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's going to come back and bite them in the ass same as it has with the Auto industry. I spent 24 years in it. The last 14 as an account manager selling directly to GM. In the last 6 years GM has faced dozens and dozens of stop shipments on products due to their bullying tactics. They are losing the power they once had. I know of at least 10 major auto suppliers that actually tore up their contracts with GM and said "we are better off without you" even if it meant closing a plant somewhere. Essentially they can't afford to do business with them anymore. 

When, and if vendors say to WalMart "we will stock our product elswhere" the business practices will change. Power can shift. It certainly has in the auto biz. Suppliers are just starting to say NO.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

For years I have tried to buy Canadian made goods whenever I could and that meant avoiding a store like Walmart . That used to be a lot easier to do by shopping at other department stores such as Sears, the Bay, Canadian Tire or smaller outlets.

Nowadays though it seems that EVERY store is following Walmart's lead and sourcing their products from the same distributors. More and more it seems that every item I look at, from tools to suits, is coming from China.

This is not good.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Don't you find it a little confusing that some constituencies will proclaim loudly and steadfastly that "the market forces will take care of everything", yet these are the same folks who a) argue that monopolies are bad for consumers, and b) push for the "convenience" of box stores and cheap outsourced goods.

I don't get it. Are monopolies good, or not? And if they aren't, then how is the manner in which Wal-Mart moves in on a grand scale and kills all other local business NOT a monopoly?

Confusing, innit?


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

allthumbs56 said:


> For years I have tried to buy Canadian made goods whenever I could and that meant avoiding a store like Walmart . That used to be a lot easier to do by shopping at other department stores such as Sears, the Bay, Canadian Tire or smaller outlets.
> 
> Nowadays though it seems that EVERY store is following Walmart's lead and sourcing their products from the same distributors. More and more it seems that every item I look at, from tools to suits, is coming from China.
> 
> This is not good.


That's because they have to. It's why there's very little manufacturing left in North America these days, and most of that is migrating to mexico. 

I'll tell you a story about tools from China. Be it Dewalt, Craftsman, Mastercraft, B&D, whatever. All the innards come from the very same factory that's about 5 blocks long in China. I'm aware of loss leaders and that every company does it. however Walmart will have you believe that EVERYTHING they have is cheaper. Didn't Zellers used to have a "lowest price is the Law" campaign? What happened to that?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

allthumbs56 said:


> For years I have tried to buy Canadian made goods whenever I could and that meant avoiding a store like Walmart . That used to be a lot easier to do by shopping at other department stores such as Sears, the Bay, Canadian Tire or smaller outlets.
> 
> Nowadays though it seems that EVERY store is following Walmart's lead and sourcing their products from the same distributors. More and more it seems that every item I look at, from tools to suits, is coming from China.
> 
> This is not good.


That is called survival. But it's a big circle and it will eventually come around again. Should take about 6-10 years.


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## chaploune (Jun 17, 2008)

Circle

One day (soon) China gonna be richer and we gonna work for Wal-mart to produce at cheaper cost. Our boss will be chinese. 

I can't understand how some people defending these kind of commerce when our plants closes around us. By our time we make our money with gas in the west and factories close in the east. We become an economy of ressource just like in the third world.

But be happy you can go to Wal-mart on sunday with yours children that's a good family activity


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

I dont shop at WalMart, but I am glad they are here to give steady employment to many people. As for business practises, I worked for KMart and Zellers in the past, and the whole retail industry has gone that way ever since the 1990s. WalMarts business practises, are not just theirs, its industry wide. Alot of the problems with retail in Canada during the 90s was actually a 2 pronged attack by Mulroney and his GST, and Cretien/Martin with their policies. With GST replacing FST, there was an exodus of shoppers in stores. With the Cretien/Martin show, the industry saw a shift to part timers, and workers with no benefits. Its hard to blame WalMart for these things. In Canada, retail industry has really been kicked in the teeth alot, and unfortunately its the workers who ultimately suffer for it..........


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

A good experiment would be to sit down and draw up a company that you would create to go up against WalMart. Set-up your supply base using all North American suppliers and hit a price point that will compete with them. Once you have completed that exercise you will soon discover that not only can you not compete, you will actually have to stuff toonies into the boxes to be able to sell them. 

Some say.... I will go after the shopper that is "willing" to pay extra for a "made in Canada" product. That buyer is becoming more and more scarce as time goes on.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

One wonders what the role of fuel in shipping costs will be in the years to come. Perhaps high fuel costs will oblige more goods to be made locally, simply because they can't be competitively priced AND shipped halfway around the globe.

As for China, it will take a number of years, but eventually their assembly-line workers will balk at the sorts of wages they are treating as "the best job in the province" these days. I mean, you need to remember that once upon a time North American locally-made products were produced by people who were content to live in wooden hovels; the sorts of places most "starving college students" would consider beneath them these days. Their desire for a higher standard of living and for more consumer goods themselves is what rendered their labour costs too expensive for North American manufacturers. Well, that and the fact that those same folks are expecting to live off of investment income from age 58 to 85 after a mere 33 years in the labour force. The expected ROI on that investment income is what moves jobs offshore. I like to refer to it as "nervous money". 

Admittedly, it is a far stretch from Wal-Mart to the future of retirement as a social institution, but I see them as linked by the urge to aim for greater profitabilty by buying up smaller companies and outsourcing labour to cheaper places. Retirement funds are humungous beasts that move to where profits, and the perception of likely profits, are greatest. If the quarterly statement shows that profits can be increased by closing down a plant in Ontario and moving it to Mexico or the Philipines, then that's what your retirement money will instruct the company's board to do.

Of course, the irony is that the social institution of retirement is ultimately unsustainable unless as a society we simply learn to want less and work longer. If one expects to have a long drawn-out luxurious retirement based on a shorter working life, then the ROI has to be huge, and the means to achieve it ruthless. If you're willing to live a little more frugally, want fewer "things", and wait a couple more years until you retire, then maybe we can expect more jobs to remain here and the need for huge box stores and national/multi-national chains to diminish.


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

Well, fuel costs won't change the fact that you're paying huge markups at the stores. If you pay 5$ for an item in the store, you can be sure it didn't cost a dollar to make in China and ship to Canada. It won't affect the manufacturers', importers', and distributors' profit margin. If anything, it means things will get more expensive for the consumers.


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## Big White Tele (Feb 10, 2007)

Its all been down hill since Sam left.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

i still dont get it. i must be eternally damned-
im going to get real fat and start wearing skin tight track pants and giant plastic flip flop shoe things when i go shopping.
of course i never actually go shopping, but im still pretty ghetto.:smile:


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## bscott (Mar 3, 2008)

Our family made a deliberate choice a few years agio to not shop Walmart and not by "Made in China".
Not shopping Walmart is a lot easier that not buying made in China.
We try very hard to shop local producers with our groceries or at least grown or produced in Canada.
We, North Americans, have shot ourselves in our collective foot over an obsession to buy the cheapest of whatever we want. Thus, we have given away ALL of our economic power by transferring all of our manufacturing and processing knowledge away to south east asia. We are already well into our econimc descendacy and will continue unless we make conscious decisions to support local industries and commerce.
It can be hard but sometimes choosing the locally or Canadain made item well cost more but in the end we keep jobs in Canada. I know that it is not always feaible to do this but perhaps try as much as you can. Pretty much the same thing as supporting local farmers. Keep the family farm alive. It is a matter of whether or not you want to eat.
I am very lucky in that I can make at least a few choices to support local farmers, businesses and industries.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

Big White Tele said:


> Its all been down hill since Sam left.


In those days, Walmart was "Proudly American". How times have changed.

Here is an interesting piece of reading, The Walmart You Don't Know.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Nice article and THAT's exactly what I'm talking about and it's why I learned to hate Wal Mart. I was a dispatcher in the GTA VERY busy and this rings very true

"Everyone from the forklift driver on up to me, the CEO, knew we had to deliver [to Wal-Mart] on time. Not 10 minutes late. And not 45 minutes early, either," says Robin Prever, who was CEO of Saratoga Beverage Group from 1992 to 2000, and made private-label water sold at Wal-Mart. "The message came through clearly: You have this 30-second delivery window. Either you're there, or you're out. With a customer like that, it changes your organization. For the better. It wakes everybody up. And all our customers benefited. We changed our whole approach to doing business." 

If you arrived at Wal Mart late, the vendor was charged %10 the cost of a load. Then when the driver arrives with say a load of Hershey or something like that. Multiple products. The warehouse guy throws a bunch of skids on the floor and the driver essentially has to sort and ship the product for them.. If you don't play along, you don't come back. You could often wait 5 hours or more before a door was available, but they didn't pay waiting time! And you were absolutely hand cuffed.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

I hate the BIG aspect. My last time in was for a weed whipper. I had to walk to the FAR end of the store to find out yet another salesman lied to me. I eventually went to a local store and paid more but was served in the time that I spent not shopping in Walmart. 

Wonder if Fender and Gibson are under their eye?


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## soundhound6 (Jun 30, 2008)

bscott said:


> Our family made a deliberate choice a few years agio to not shop Walmart and not by "Made in China".
> Not shopping Walmart is a lot easier that not buying made in China.
> We try very hard to shop local producers with our groceries or at least grown or produced in Canada.
> We, North Americans, have shot ourselves in our collective foot over an obsession to buy the cheapest of whatever we want. Thus, we have given away ALL of our economic power by transferring all of our manufacturing and processing knowledge away to south east asia. We are already well into our econimc descendacy and will continue unless we make conscious decisions to support local industries and commerce.
> ...


+1000 on that!Welcome to the American dream.(No offence to most of our neighbours over the border,just those greedy big buisness [email protected])

But...even in the the states,the dream is rapidly becoming a nightmare.
Watching only the "bottom line"and laying off 10,000 people to acheive this
is very short sighted and is foisted on us by psychopathic CEO's on behalf of 
the shareholders.

Talk about towers of glass on foundations of clay.
Sad thing is, that there's much more to come.
The whole world is in a panic over all these institutions collapsing.I think that
artifcially keeping the dream alive for the wealthy is inherently wrong.
Reality sure bites.
You know what they say about sleeping next to the elephant...

Jan:smilie_flagge17:


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Well, here you go. 

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=35f46a03-2e17-4e6e-80cd-e2f0ca8716f9

Some of you may remember that the Wal-Mart in Jonquiere, PQ was shut down after they voted to unionize. Given that there are anti-unionbusting laws in Quebec, Wal-Mart explained the "coincidental store closure" as resulting from poor sales there; i.e., union-schmunion, the store was not really profitable anyways and it is mere coincidence that we decided to close it after employees made a move towards unionization.

Given that the case of that store is currently in the Quebec courts, there was interest in how Wal-Mart would respond to the vote to unionize the auto-centre in Gatineau, particularly given that it was a completely legal unionization that was upheld by the courts. The assumption was that if there were two such "coincidental" store/service closures it would make Wal-Mart's case unsupportable since it would be very difficult to argue that it *wasn't* illegal union-busting.

Well, apparently, Wal-Mart decided they were bigger than the Quebec courts.

Unsavoury, if you ask me.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Well, here you go.
> 
> 
> Well, apparently, Wal-Mart decided they were bigger than the Quebec courts.
> ...


I heard that today. They are probably bigger that the courts but the courts won't believe it. :smile:


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## soundhound6 (Jun 30, 2008)

My factory closed down 1 1/2 years ago due to "shipping costs"and left central North America to move to southern California.Or so they said...
We all knew it was because we wouldn't sell out and accept Wally like 
concessions and that fact they wanted to bust the union.

Buzz Hargrove and the polititions made all kinds of public noise, but they left
anyways.This is in the guise of "global buisness".
If you don't accept their terms, the job goes to another country with slacker
labour laws.Very hard reality there, man!!Like I said earlier,there's more coming yet.

These big buisness [email protected] won't realise how wrong it is, until they have made puapers out of their former employees/customers.
And these same buisness probably think they have massive amounts of purchasers in the east...think again people..they'll make their own stuff!

Last year we bought minimal xmas presents(kids only)this year we'll eat very well and enjoy each others company without presents at all.
Save for the gift of love. (..not everything is darkness and gloom.)

Jan


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

mhammer said:


> Well, apparently, Wal-Mart decided they were bigger than the Quebec courts.
> Unsavoury, if you ask me.


So, at that point a government with the public interest at heart would start looking into all the nice tax breaks they've given that company throughout the whole country. And looking _very carefully _into rescinding some those tax breaks. Some pushback would be a nice thing. Call their bluff, tell them to close all their ****ing stores in Canada then. See if they do it. it's a win-win either way. You get rid of wallyworld, or you get them to comply. It's better for the local economy to not have these companies in the pool anyway.

[youtube=Option]3GINui9LdIQ[/youtube]


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

I usually get my Wrangler jeans and a couple other items from them . Otherwise I'm not a big supporter nor do I like the big box feel to the place .


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

soundhound6 said:


> My factory closed down 1 1/2 years ago due to "shipping costs"and left central North America to move to southern California.Or so they said...
> We all knew it was because we wouldn't sell out and accept Wally like
> concessions and that fact they wanted to bust the union.
> 
> ...



Well the shoe is dropping now cause those same factories in the USA are closing up shop and moving to Mexico. No one seems to think about the "greater good" just the bottom line.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

devnulljp said:


> It's better for the local economy to not have these companies in the pool anyway.


I was speaking with an employee at another BIG box USA store Home Depot. There is a new on in my small town. You cannot be employed full time by Home Depot (this store anyway) Unless you are a University Graduate. So, virtually all emplyoyees are part time who work 40 hours per week. Therefore being part time, the company doesn't have to provide benefits. Yeah, I know I can pay off student loans and support a family working retail...... "Hey I just go my degree, think I'll go apply at Home Depot"


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## soundhound6 (Jun 30, 2008)

devnulljp...good clip that shows that bigger isn't always better
I too, believe the government should grow a spine and truly act on our behalf.
I'll bet that they are hobbled by the free trade agreement with the US,so I'll give them that much,but....
It's interesting to note that most politicians are lawyers and big buisness men.
An old boys network if you will.

Starbuck,ya got that right about the other shoe dropping.Upside is that it'll open the eyes of more Americans to the reality they helped to create.
Downside is that we will pay the price ultimately,while the wealthy will be securely ensconced in their own little fiefdoms.

I remember a phrophecy that in the end the yellow races will rule the world...
It's easy to see why.By the way,I'm not inciting racism..only humanism.

To avoid shopping at wallyland,I've been going to Value Village to buy work clothes and such for a reasonable price since losing my job.
At first I felt uncomfortable going there,but after seeing some obviously well
off people there and realising there were some great deals to be had,that feeling disappeared very quickly.
Personally, I don't feel any great need to wear american bluejeans that are made in Mexico.Even if they are "only" $25.00 or whatever.I'll get the preowned & broken in jeans at Value Village for $5-7.00 a pair.

Jan


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Keep in mind that there are several separate issues that happen to converge at Wal-Mart. One is the issue of the products themselves, and the manner in which our purchase habits lean towards shipping more and more jobs over to China. A second is the business practices of the Wal-Mart corporation. Avoiding Wal-Mart does not necessarily result in one buying something OTHER than cheaply-made goods that could have been made in your own country.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Starbuck said:


> I was speaking with an employee at another BIG box USA store Home Depot. There is a new on in my small town. You cannot be employed full time by Home Depot (this store anyway) Unless you are a University Graduate. So, virtually all emplyoyees are part time who work 40 hours per week. Therefore being part time, the company doesn't have to provide benefits. Yeah, I know I can pay off student loans and support a family working retail...... "Hey I just go my degree, think I'll go apply at Home Depot"


This is a practice that has been in wide use for many years now. Even the large corps do it. GM, Ford ect have not hired any "real" employees in years. They are all contract workers. They get paid way less and there are no unions, benefits or promises of any kind. They can simply call you up the next day and tell you not to show up for work. They are paid by the employment agency and not from the company direct.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> This is a practice that has been in wide use for many years now. Even the large corps do it. GM, Ford ect have not hired any "real" employees in years. They are all contract workers. They get paid way less and there are no unions, benefits or promises of any kind. They can simply call you up the next day and tell you not to show up for work. They are paid by the employment agency and not from the company direct.


Yes I know about contract employees. but these folk aren't contracted. They work for HD. My Dad and I always butted heads about Unions He's very much pro and I am (was) con. I know someone with a good Gov't job who makes $70,000 to serve coffee due to the Union, and to me that's just vulgar. However, I think the time is coming that unions are needed again. People need to be paid fairly, but in the same vein I have always HATED the "it's not my job" mentality.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I think the time is coming that unions are needed again. People need to be paid fairly, but in the same vein I have always HATED the "it's not my job" mentality.


 Unions are definitely not the answer to todays economic problems! They are *a* source to the problems we are facing today. I agree with paying fairly, but not overpaid, which is what the unions did to automotive.

Walmart is another source the helped cause todays problems.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

ne1roc said:


> Unions are definitely not the answer to todays economic problems! They are *a* source to the problems we are facing today. I agree with paying fairly, but not overpaid, which is what the unions did to automotive. Walmart is another source the helped cause todays problems.


I understand what you're saying, and I agree, but in light of how employers are getting away with withholding benefits ie: keeping people as part time casual or using outsourcing to pay lower wages, what's the solution? Have you ever tried to bring something the labor board? It's Nothing short of Monstrous trying to find someone to listen to you, let alone finding the number of the proper office..


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## geezer (Apr 30, 2008)

I was under the impression that 40 hrs. per week was full time ,so I can't see how the companies can get around paying benefits.we have hired sub-contractors and if they worked on our premises they were considered employees but if they did the work elsewhere ,they were not but had to show us that they payed wcb.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

As someone who spent his adolescence and young adulthood in Montreal, to me "unions" meant no bus service 9 weeks a year, no garbage pickup 7 weeks a year, no mail delivery 6 weeks a year, etc. My sister spent her last year of high school on the curb 3 days out of 5 because of rotating teacher strikes. It just seemed like someone somewhere was always on strike. So I never really had a soft spot in my heart for them.

That being said, there are a great many work contexts that are not velvet-padded and platinum-plated, where someone DOES have to represent workers, and minimum-wage service-sector jobs fall in that bracket. Sadly, unions have their greatest power when they have the largest membership, so we tend to see them principally in the public sector, where a) their job actions impose considerable inconvenience and sometimes hardship on the public, and b) the absence of the need-for-profitability factor (i.e., I can't pay you more because I'd go broke and you wouldn't have a job), and presence of a sometimes seemingly bottomless purse means that wages can rise quite high. I know in the federal government, people are clamouring to get in because, while wages at senior levels don't live up to private sector, wages at entry levels are VERY competitive with the private sector. As a result, it is easy to get cynical about unions in general.

I will say that, wages aside, my interactions with union folk here in the public sector have been amicable and productive, and that they are the ones who will often raise the important workplace questions that the rest of us are too busy to remember to ask. For example, things like fairness to minorities or immigrants in hiring, or physical violence on the job.


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