# People going missing driving in B.C.'s interior



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

*Three dead, two missing off northern B.C. highway leaves local residents unsettled*

Three dead, two missing off northern B.C. highway leaves local residents unsettled


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

So far there's nothing to link these incidents with the Highway of Tears but it is the same area.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

And, while justifiably concerning, the degree of media attention it has received seems to be far more extensive than that accorded the many disappearances of indigenous women along that same highway.

That said, one of the ongoing challenges in public policy is how to assure public safety in more remote and less busy locations. On the one hand, humans are far more likely to engage in aggression and lawbreaking practices when they believe they will not be observed or identified. On the other hand, humans are also not keen on spending the money for additional policing and surveillance to provide that observation and identification; "beat cops" are expensive to provide. And sometimes, even when it is cost-effective, with unsalaried technology subbing for people, people are often none too crazy about it on moral grounds. 

Admittedly, it is a big leap from automated photo-radar that assigns speeding tickets at intersections to these homicides and disappearances in a remote part of the north. But the choice is fundamentally the same: how much is safety worth to you and how much vigilance do you accept to provide it?


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Murders, rapes, and other violence occurs in heavily surveilled locales. Passion and rage trump common sense every time. But in Ottawa, we sure don't need to keep police at these construction sites downtown. What a waste of talent.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

RCMP release new photos of Texas murder suspect possibly in Manitoba








Similar looking.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

1SweetRide said:


> But in Ottawa, we sure don't need to keep police at these construction sites downtown. What a waste of talent.


 That would be the good old cash cow paid duty (Overtime) Last time I looked at the rates it was over $100 an hour +++ for vehicles and other fees. Here is Halton they are all about the same.Halton Regional Police Service


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

CBC is now reporting that the two youths reported missing are now suspects in the homicide of the Australian man and his American partner, as well as the third fellow. I guess "Fargo" has come to BC.
2 B.C. men considered missing now suspects in homicide of young couple | CBC News


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> RCMP release new photos of Texas murder suspect possibly in Manitoba
> 
> 
> 
> ...


One of those drawings (left) is of one of the bodies recovered, not the 'person of interest'.
The drawing on the right does resemble the texas murder suspect.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jb welder said:


> One of those drawings (left) is of one of the bodies recovered, not the 'person of interest'.
> The drawing on the right does resemble the texas murder suspect.


seems tho that the texas murder suspect is not the guy they are looking for, for these.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Right, it's two kids now.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Two teenagers on a killing spree rarely ends well


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

cboutilier said:


> Two teenagers on a killing spree rarely ends well


I’m guessing the beginning wasn’t the tops either


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Seems they found the car the two kids were driving.
Burnt vehicle found in northern Manitoba used by suspects in B.C. homicides: RCMP | CBC News
Can't see how or why they got to Gillam myself but if they are lucky the RCMP get to them first. They don't have a lot of places they can go now.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

The last I was, there was a warning to Ontario residents.

Ontario police issue public safety warning as B.C. murder suspects move in 'easterly direction'


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I mean the one guy has "Schmeg" right in his name.

(It's cold outside, there's no kind of atmosphere)


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2019)

Video game players gone wild.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Player99 said:


> Video game players gone wild.


Candy Crush did this


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2019)

vadsy said:


> Candy Crush did this


The thought police need to start tracking all video gamers and round them up for prior restraint internment.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Player99 said:


> Video game players gone wild.






The only video game I play.


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> The only video game I play.


You should be in jail.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Player99 said:


> You should be in jail.


I was. Give me an old Pin Ball machine from the 60's, a deck of cards or a pool cue and 9 balls on the table and I'm happy. My kid still has the Vic 20 I bought in '82 and the Nintendo I bought him in '86 when they first were available in the states. This spring we plugged it in to his old t.v. and Duck Hunt still works. I've never made it through level one Mario Bros. 
That being said, there's a video out from one of the dads that seems to say his kid has a death wish. The other kid, well he's such a good boy and we can't see...etc., etc..


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

They are saying one boy was fascinated by guns, Nazis, and wanted to form a militia. Bingo!


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)




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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

what a pair of assholes

I wonder if the burned out RAV4 at the dead end is a decoy, and they are on their way somewhere else


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

bolero said:


> what a pair of assholes
> 
> I wonder if the burned out RAV4 at the dead end is a decoy, and they are on their way somewhere else


Long way to take a car for a decoy and no place to go from there unless they walk.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> Long way to take a car for a decoy and no place to go from there unless they walk.


what if they have a second vehicle?


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

vadsy said:


> what if they have a second vehicle?


That would be clever. The RCMP is beating the bush and they would be long gone.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

I'm wondering if the plan isn't to get in the Nelson river to Hudson Bay, onward to Russia. Nobody has said a peep about the river.
Why on earth would anyone head for Gillam?
The guy is a Russia nut. Just because a plan is not feasible might not mean much when you've gone this far.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

vadsy said:


> what if they have a second vehicle?


 exactly


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

vadsy said:


> what if they have a second vehicle?


heck , 2 motorcycles and we have Easy Rider #2


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> heck , 2 motorcycles and we have Easy Rider #2


hopefully a good ending then


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2019)

They will probably be waiting for me in my living room when I get home.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

I hope they get mauled by a bear

I wonder how much it will cost taxpayers, to cover the legal expenses & life imprisonment of these pieces of shit


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

this late and a slow freight train line nearby ? ... long gone.


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## Doug B (Jun 19, 2017)

bolero said:


> I hope they get mauled by a bear


And don't forget the cost of giving the polar bear a flea dip, shampoo and cut and groom! My God, the poor bear will never get the smell out of its fur! *#*(


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> this late and a slow freight train line nearby ? ... long gone.


There's only one train line with a hell of a big distance between stops and they only run twice a week.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Still nothing about these two my wife thinks at this point they may have either a suicide pact or they are just waiting it out. There are so many cabins in that area that are not on a map and I'm sure some maybe stocked I know here in BC we had come across so many that were so well hidden and so well stocked with can foods by the cases and large bottles of water and such that we know were probably waiting for the end of the world.
I just can't understand what turns 2 like these kids to do what they did was the first a mistake and they thought oh well once it has started or is this something they may have been planning all along.
I hope they catch them so the families can have some form of justice and at least find out why their loved ones had to die.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Ship of fools said:


> Still nothing about these two my wife thinks at this point they may have either a suicide pact or they are just waiting it out. There are so many cabins in that area that are not on a map and I'm sure some maybe stocked I know here in BC we had come across so many that were so well hidden and so well stocked with can foods by the cases and large bottles of water and such that we know were probably waiting for the end of the world.
> I just can't understand what turns 2 like these kids to do what they did was the first a mistake and they thought oh well once it has started or is this something they may have been planning all along.
> I hope they catch them so the families can have some form of justice and at least find out why their loved ones had to die.


A lot of those cabins there are probably like the ones in B.C. and other remote places in Canada. Stocked seasonal hunting, fishing, trapping type places. And yeah, some are survivalist places and some are ranch types. The problem with a lot of these cabins is that most of them contain weapons of some sort. I'd bet that a lot of the close cabins have or will be visited by the armed owners. You would figure that if these kids, or at least one, had wanted to hide in the big city they would have done that along the way. You'd figure, if they were suicidal, they'd have stood in the middle of a road with guns a blazing. It's possible that's what's left of them might turn up by hunting season.








This little fellow was spotted by a search helicopter.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Electraglide said:


> This little fellow was spotted by a search helicopter.


He doesn't look very hungry... maybe he's had a couple of big meals.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

For this time of year he does look well fed.....probably scavenging garbage dumps.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I think maybe they find their corpses, maybe not, but they've probably offed themselves. Wolves and minks, bears and wolverines will clean up the mess.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Latest story is they've been seen in Sudbury.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Verne said:


> Latest story is they've been seen in Sudbury.


I herd Kapuskasing today. Lots of rumors in Northern Ont. They probably never left BC. I remember a guy last name Kelly broke out of North Bay jail and everyone stayed in their house. Don't no why everyone had a couple riffles.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Distortion said:


> I herd Kapuskasing today. Lots of rumors in Northern Ont. They probably never left BC. I remember a guy last name Kelly broke out of North Bay jail and everyone stayed in their house. Don't no why everyone had a couple riffles.


They were ID'd in Northern Manitoba and the burnt car was the one they took from the guy they killed in B.C..


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

The last I heard they think they've made it as far as northeastern Ontario.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Let's see now, that's abduction, kidnapping, force-able confinement, abetting assault of various kinds, obstructing justice and probably quite a few other things. You could end up sharing a cell with them for at least as long. Better just to gut them and leave them out for the bears.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

More speculation and conjecture about the whereabouts of the two suspects.

Two B.C. fugitives probably ‘hit the road a long time ago,’ Mantracker and Survivorman say


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

I'm betting they're dead.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

boyscout said:


> More speculation and conjecture about the whereabouts of the two suspects.
> 
> Two B.C. fugitives probably ‘hit the road a long time ago,’ Mantracker and Survivorman say


I would read this but every time I click on the link.....either here or when it comes up in a google search....it takes me to a national post subscription page. Nobodies fault but National Posts.
The Winnipeg Sun seems to have come through.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

SaucyJack said:


> I'm betting they're dead.


As hateful as it may sound, that's probably best for all concerned, as long as we find remains to verify.

These pieces of shit made choices they had no right to make. I feel less than sympathetic towards them.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> As hateful as it may sound, that's probably best for all concerned, as long as we find remains to verify.
> 
> These pieces of shit made choices they had no right to make. I feel less than sympathetic towards them.


Taking into consideration where the powers that be think they still are there might not be that many remains to find and if any are found it could be a long time down the road.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

RCMP find items linked to B.C. homicide suspects on northern Manitoba shoreline | CBC News

Manitoba RCMP say they have found several items linked to B.C. homicide suspects Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky on a shoreline in northern Manitoba.

Police said Tuesday that several items were located on the shore of the Nelson River on Friday, about nine kilometres from where a burnt-out vehicle used by the suspects was found last month. (Police had earlier said the items were discovered Saturday, but later issued a correction.)​


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

lets see .... grab an old beat up alum boat , throw some stuff in it that you don't need , push it into a river and let it go ... 
and the hounds will follow the trail.
meanwhile , back track ( or choose another direction ) and get out of there 

who says they didn't snag a dirt bike prior to burning the SUV. ..... long gone.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Electraglide said:


> I would read this but every time I click on the link.....either here or when it comes up in a google search....it takes me to a national post subscription page. Nobodies fault but National Posts. The Winnipeg Sun seems to have come through.


If you clear cookies for National Post from your browser you may find that you can read articles again, for a while.


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

RCMP is about to make an significant announcement regarding this.


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

I was right.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

B.C. murder suspects Bryer Schmegelsky, Kam McLeod believed to be dead


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

boyscout said:


> If you clear cookies for National Post from your browser you may find that you can read articles again, for a while.


They tell me I've used my "10" free reads for this month which is BS. They are now back on my ad blocker. There are other places out there.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Bodies have been found. Just a kilometer away from where they found the boat. 5 lives gone and 5 families affected. We'll never know what triggered these killings.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Other than maybe getting a confession, the best possible ending. This assumes they actually killed anyone, but near as I can tell that's pretty well established at this point.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Chito said:


> Bodies have been found. Just a kilometer away from where they found the boat. 5 lives gone and 5 families affected. We'll never know what triggered these killings.


I haven't seen any results from the autopsy by hopefully the bodies found are the two they've been looking for. Be interesting to find out how they died.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I doubt whether it was any sort of Thelma & Louise ending. They ended up in the situation they were in by a series of impulsive actions. They're 18 & 19 years old. I doubt whether there would be an end to such actions. Chances are they took a dumb choice out of panic and desperation, and it ended up being fatal. It's all a damn shame; every last little bit. Everyone who died in this series of events have parents who wanted to see them grow up and have a good life.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> They tell me I've used my "10" free reads for this month which is BS. They are now back on my ad blocker. There are other places out there.


That never happens with them or the toronto sun on my phone but my lap tops and desk tops get blocked for both of those sites.


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2019)

As boyscout said, clear the cookies for those sites, then refresh the page.


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## Guest (Aug 7, 2019)

It would be crazy if they had killed 2 look-a-likes and left them there to throw off the cops...


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> That never happens with them or the toronto sun on my phone but my lap tops and desk tops get blocked for both of those sites.


I used to get them on my laptop until I added them to my ad blocker. They still sneak in sometimes. My phone gets used for phone calls, texts and music videos thru itunes downloaded into the laptop from youtube (tubemate on the android not too sure if it works on iphone 5's). 
@Player99......back when they started looking for them in B.C. no one would have thought they would have gotten to where they presumably ended up. Edmonton or Van. maybe. And where they found the bodies, bodies usually don't last too long so recognizable is not really an important thing. If the bodies were found together how did they die? M & S, mutual suicide, maybe shot with two different caliber weapons? For that matter, I never heard anything about them being armed. It will probably hit the news tomorrow.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Fuck the news and the latest updates at 11:00; they're deaded and that's all that matters.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I’m betting murder/suicide.

Anyway, assuming they’re guilty, this is probably the best outcome.

The manhunt was expensive enough. A trial and lifelong (ish) incarceration would have been much more, and frankly I'm not disappointed that we were spared that.

I do feel sorry for their parents.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I'm just glad it didn't come down to a firefight or suicide by cops.


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## SaucyJack (Mar 8, 2017)

My guess is that they've been dead for a while. Probably offed themselves when they realized they couldn't move an inch without being caught.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

SaucyJack said:


> My guess is that they've been dead for a while. Probably offed themselves when they realized they couldn't move an inch without being caught.


You may be right. They needed a medical examiner to id them.

Any time it comes down to murder suicide, I wish they’d start with the suicide part.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Sad story. We will probably never know what triggered it all and the subsequent reason why they decided to kill the couple and the professor. They did let the tow truck driver go though. So lots of questions that will probably never be answered.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

No you guys forget that they were out in the elements and bugs and critters would certainly chow down on a corpse right after death and looks like my wife was right in that they would end up being dead. From the damage on that boat they must have hit something really hard and travelling to fast and they were not that far from shore line so they probably were some serious injuries.
Damn shame for the families of the victims but, as they will never really learn why their loved ones were taken away and there is no justice for the crimes they committed nor why they turned and did what they didjust breaks my heart.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

While very sad for anyone directly related to this, it is probably the best possibly outcome.

With our current soft-on-crime Fed govt, these guys would have been back on the street at 35 years old. And probably not rehabilitated, either.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

What is the data on this? Are people who kill when they are teens more likely to commit murder when they are released from prison many years later?

I don't know, I just prefer evidence-based discussions.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

JazzyT said:


> What is the data on this? Are people who kill when they are teens more likely to commit murder when they are released from prison many years later?
> 
> I don't know, I just prefer evidence-based discussions.



Don't know, don't care.

The lives they took will never come back.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

JazzyT said:


> What is the data on this? Are people who kill when they are teens more likely to commit murder when they are released from prison many years later?
> 
> I don't know, I just prefer evidence-based discussions.


The data on this is - life sentence in Canada means 20 years with early release for not killing more people while in prison. At their age, they would be out at a young age (35-ish) and could potentially be your neighbor. Like Karla Homolka. Personally, I want these people out of circulation for a lot longer than that. 

Don't even get me started on the ridiculous NCR decisions. You do the crime, you pay the time. Simple.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

JazzyT said:


> Are people who kill when they are teens more likely to commit murder when they are released from prison many years later?


 Last time I checked 18 and 19 year olds were called adults. I had a problem with the media constantly calling them teen agers like they were wayward 13 year olds..


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

Distortion said:


> Last time I checked 18 and 19 year olds were called adults. I had a problem with the media constantly calling them teen agers like they were wayward 13 year olds..


When was the last time you checked? I just did and ...

teenager - Wiktionary:

A person between 13 and 19 years of age; an adolescent.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

JazzyT said:


> When was the last time you checked? I just did and ...
> 
> teenager - Wiktionary:
> 
> A person between 13 and 19 years of age; an adolescent.


Call them what you want but they would have been in adult court, adult prison . I call them adults, old enough to drink in my era, vote and go to war.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

I was thinking in terms of brain development. A moot point in this case.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

Milkman said:


> Don't know, don't care.
> 
> The lives they took will never come back.


As you like. I'm fond of facts. For example, with duos like this, one is often along for the ride. I also realize more killing doesn't bring dead bodies back to life.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

JazzyT said:


> As you like. I'm fond of facts. For example, with duos like this, one is often along for the ride. I also realize more killing doesn't bring dead bodies back to life.


I'm also fond of facts.

Here's one. Those boys are dead and I'm happy to not have to spend any more resources than absolutely necessary to rehabilitate them.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> The data on this is - life sentence in Canada means 20 years with early release for not killing more people while in prison. At their age, they would be out at a young age (35-ish) and could potentially be your neighbor. Like Karla Homolka. Personally, I want these people out of circulation for a lot longer than that.
> 
> Don't even get me started on the ridiculous NCR decisions. You do the crime, you pay the time. Simple.


Life sentence in Canada is an undermined length with parole intelligibility for 25 years. A good friend of mine just went through this with his oldest son. He has no chance of getting out for at least 25 years.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

JazzyT said:


> .. I'm fond of facts. For example, with duos like this, one is often along for the ride. I also realize more killing doesn't bring dead bodies back to life.


Yer just one or two facts away from convincing yourself that none of it was their fault.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

We don't have a lot of young folks who kill at random almost all young killers these days belong to a gang so Jazzy kind of hard to find stats on if they would could kill upon release unless they go back to the gang they left or didn't leave. And duo killers well the the first that I have ever heard of in Canada not a lot of that thank goodness.


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## JazzyT (Nov 1, 2017)

Wardo said:


> Yer just one or two facts away from convincing yourself that none of it was their fault.


Nope.

EDIT: it was their fault, but we don't how it went down.

I don't believe in killing people and I believe people, especially young people, can change over time. Sorry, but I guess some Christian values rubbed off on me.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Ship of fools said:


> We don't have a lot of young folks who kill at random almost all young killers these days belong to a gang so Jazzy kind of hard to find stats on if they would could kill upon release unless they go back to the gang they left or didn't leave. And duo killers well the the first that I have ever heard of in Canada not a lot of that thank goodness.


Clarify "young folks" Ship. To me that's anyone under 40. A lot of them don't belong to gangs but a lot isn't "random" especially if you mean that it just happened for no reason.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

JazzyT said:


> What is the data on this? Are people who kill when they are teens more likely to commit murder when they are released from prison many years later?
> 
> I don't know, I just prefer evidence-based discussions.


Anecdotal evidence:

I've met a couple of killers, and they rational thought and stability seem to go out the window permanently. I don't know if it's the kill, or the jail time that breaks their mind though. I'd prefer to never encounter any "rehabilitated" murderers.

I've got an old friend/neighbor doing 20 right now, so maybe I'll be able to update with a before&after in 15 years.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

cboutilier said:


> Anecdotal evidence:
> 
> I've met a couple of killers, and they rational thought and stability seem to go out the window permanently. I don't know if it's the kill, or the jail time that breaks their mind though. I'd prefer to never encounter any "rehabilitated" murderers.
> 
> I've got an old friend/neighbor doing 20 right now, so maybe I'll be able to update with a before&after in 15 years.


Gee, I know a few too and I met more than a few. One had been in remand for 4 years when I met him.....it finally went to court and he got 15 years.....minus time served and 2/3rds he'll be on parole in about 8 years or so. If he was native he could be out sooner. I'd say it's about 95% of the time it's being inside that affects the mind.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

JazzyT said:


> As you like. I'm fond of facts. For example, with duos like this, one is often along for the ride. I also realize more killing doesn't bring dead bodies back to life.


Even "being along for the ride", he may have a significant involvement. I've seen it first hand - the first guy (the actual bad guy in your scenario) wouldn't do as much or go as far if he didn't have a cheerleader along with him. We have parables about "united we stand", etc. It's a synergistic relationship - they fuel each other and neither would have a similar impact without the other. Like fertilizer and diesel fuel - both are useful products, but together, they can be much more dangerous.

I know we'll never know the true dynamic of the duo. I feel for the families of the victims more than anyone else in that regard, though. I'd file our 'need to know' under curiosity and still prefer this outcome to many, many others that may have transpired.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

The 14-21 youth mostly I would say from the drug trade here in the lower mainland.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

2 bodies found confirmed to be them: at least they won't be harming anyone else, or wasting any more resources

Condolences to all the victims families


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Cause of death confirmed as suicide by gun.

Finally these A-holes are doing the right thing and saving us the trouble of supporting them and listening to their sob stories for the rest of their lives.

Same goes with Epstein (unless you're buying into one of the paranoid conspiracy theories on that one).


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

sorry to all those people affected by these 2 clowns 
but I hafta put on my tin hat to be able to type these daze


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Cause of death confirmed as suicide by gun.
> 
> Finally these A-holes are doing the right thing and saving us the trouble of supporting them and listening to their sob stories for the rest of their lives.
> 
> Same goes with Epstein (unless you're buying into one of the paranoid conspiracy theories on that one).


I'm not going to have much sympathy for them, but you know, as teenagers - the sorts of people who make dumb mistakes as part of the contract with being young - their parents are going to miss out on their kids turning their lives around. Nobody's kids are perfect. Some folks here have made some seriously dumb mistakes when they were younger. Other parents are still waiting for their turn. Fortunately, most kids that make dumb mistakes won't make them as dumb or as fatal for themselves and others. Most folks who end up in prison or on trial didn't contemplate doing what got them in serious trouble until maybe 5 minutes, or even 15 seconds before they did it. That's no excuse, but I will simply note that nobody back in Port Alberni has said "That guy was trouble. He was trouble in middle school and trouble in high school. Other kids just stayed away from him." They're as surprised as anyone. I don't feel sorry for the boys, but I do feel sorry for all those affected on both sides who wanted a happier outcome.

Parents, teach your kids to resist impulses. Teach them to set aside how they feel for just a moment or two, and think logically. I've said it before and will say it until my dying breath, there are three basic things young adults work towards achieving during their adolescence and early years: attaining a sense of self and identity, learning how to feel emotionally close to peers, and learning how to manage affective information. When they don't accomplish that third one, they spend the rest of their lives making impulsive (and generally poor) decisions, based on how they feel or think they are going to feel. Sadly, one of those impulsive decision can be suicide, which they do at a disproportionately higher rate. In this instance, it appears that decision came at the tail end of a string of impulsive decisions, that began with driving north to "seek their fortune".


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

mhammer said:


> I'm not going to have much sympathy for them, but you know, as teenagers - the sorts of people who make dumb mistakes as part of the contract with being young - their parents are going to miss out on their kids turning their lives around. Nobody's kids are perfect. Some folks here have made some seriously dumb mistakes when they were younger. Other parents are still waiting for their turn. Fortunately, most kids that make dumb mistakes won't make them as dumb or as fatal for themselves and others. Most folks who end up in prison or on trial didn't contemplate doing what got them in serious trouble until maybe 5 minutes, or even 15 seconds before they did it. That's no excuse, but I will simply note that nobody back in Port Alberni has said "That guy was trouble. He was trouble in middle school and trouble in high school. Other kids just stayed away from him." They're as surprised as anyone. I don't feel sorry for the boys, but I do feel sorry for all those affected on both sides who wanted a happier outcome.
> 
> Parents, teach your kids to resist impulses. Teach them to set aside how they feel for just a moment or two, and think logically. I've said it before and will say it until my dying breath, there are three basic things young adults work towards achieving during their adolescence and early years: attaining a sense of self and identity, learning how to feel emotionally close to peers, and learning how to manage affective information. When they don't accomplish that third one, they spend the rest of their lives making impulsive (and generally poor) decisions, based on how they feel or think they are going to feel. Sadly, one of those impulsive decision can be suicide, which they do at a disproportionately higher rate. In this instance, it appears that decision came at the tail end of a string of impulsive decisions, that began with driving north to "seek their fortune".


I have in the past had a very difficult period (probably more than ten years) with one of my kids. He was destined for prison or an early demise and that opinion was the consensus in our family. I won’t share the details but it almost killed me. We were basically waiting for the phone call every day.

Somehow, he has transformed his life and may ultimately become the most successful and well adjusted person in our family. At least he is poised to do so. Some switch just clicked. He’s a much better person now.

I do feel sympathy for the parents of these two, but at the end of it all, they are responsible for their actions, not their parents.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

True. My sincere empathy. When you become a parent, you invest every single ounce of hope you have in your kid, and when it gets squandered, even if only by chance, it's got to break your heart. I tell people that children are the only legitimate reason to want to live forever, because you want to see how their lives turn out, and their kids' lives, and their kids' as well. It's like a book you can't put down.

In their wildest dreams, I imagine the parents would have hoped that the kids had stolen vehicles with no one killed, driven to Gillam, camped out for a few days, turned themselves in, done a few months, straightened out, moved back home, found themselves a nice partner, provided a grandchild or two, and put all that crap from their youth behind them. As a parent, you can handle a bit of turbulence during the flight, but please oh please, gimme a safe landing.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

mhammer said:


> True. My sincere empathy. When you become a parent, you invest every single ounce of hope you have in your kid, and when it gets squandered, even if only by chance, it's got to break your heart. I tell people that children are the only legitimate reason to want to live forever, because you want to see how their lives turn out, and their kids' lives, and their kids' as well. It's like a book you can't put down.
> 
> In their wildest dreams, I imagine the parents would have hoped that the kids had stolen vehicles with no one killed, driven to Gillam, camped out for a few days, turned themselves in, done a few months, straightened out, moved back home, found themselves a nice partner, provided a grandchild or two, and put all that crap from their youth behind them. As a parent, you can handle a bit of turbulence during the flight, but please oh please, gimme a safe landing.


Yes, that about sums it up.

We went though hell and our story turned out more or less (so far) like the second paragraph in your post.

I'm sure that period in my life had an impact on my health, both mental and physical.

The parents of these two weren't so lucky.


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