# Aliens and UFOs - fake news or real?



## boyscout

Coincidence or not, Netflix is offering a couple of documentaries recently that both fall heavily on the "real" side of the question posed by this thread.

Each focuses significantly on the testimony of a single *extremely* credible and believable person. Each also provides other testimony including some by debunkers, but neither tries to "balance" the story by giving the debunkers equal time. You may agree after watching that that's a good thing - the debunkers have had no trouble getting their messages out over the years.

In *Bob Lazar*, the eponymous subject was hired as a young whiz kid scientist and quickly assigned to figuring out how the anti-matter, anti-gravity propulsion system worked on an alien spacecraft secretly secured in a government facility a few miles south of Area 51. He was idealistic, and disagreed with government intentions to keep the existence of the craft (and especially its technology) secret so he first tried to go "public" anonymously. When government agents began threatening him he went very public to protect himself, and was a media sensation for a while. In the relative safety of that fame he then went underground and for decades refused all efforts to tell his story. His continuing prickly reluctance is evident in the film, but so is the apparent deep frustration of someone honestly believing he knows truth that others are lying about. Here's a Wikipedia page about him. Worth watching the film.

Bob Lazar - Wikipedia

In *Unacknowledged*, Dr. Steven Greer very credibly outlines information gathered over years by his Disclosure Project about sightings and events, and about government efforts to keep them secret. He asserts - again more credibly than a lot of people telling this story - that there really is a conspiracy inside governments in the U.S. and around the world to suppress information about alien encounters and to secure technology gleaned from them, a group of dark agencies that operate outside of the control of elected officials and even top-most appointed officials such as the director of the CIA.

Steven M. Greer - Wikipedia

Because I watched those two, Netflix is now presenting me a handful of other such documentaries that I have not yet watched. They may be as bad - or not - as other documentaries I've seen, but the two above impressed me.

Meanwhile, the following account of the Roswell incident sniffs off the claim that a crash near Roswell, New Mexico, provided some of the first physical evidence that something not built on earth had crashed there. Similar debunks can be found about other incidents reported by credible people. Who wrote them, and are they determined to find truth or obscure it?

Roswell UFO incident - Wikipedia

So let's resolve the issue once and for all here. Real or fake?


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## 1SweetRide

I watched the Lazar film on the weekend. He comes across as extremely believable. I can't discount his story but it raises so many questions.

How did the US government happen to get the vehicles anyway?
Why has no one else who worked on the projects come forward?
The models of the craft and its propulsion system seem very simplistic. Hard to imagine such sophisticated systems being essentially a dinner plate with a dome cover and a couple of tubes.
He says the system warps space and time but is very nonchalant about how it actually works. At one point he describes it as anti-gravity which to me, needs a gravity to source to work. At another time he describes it as essentially falling into a gravity well meaning it generates its own black hole. Unless there's two propulsion principles at play here, I'm having trouble reconciling those two descriptions.


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## oldjoat

can't prove or disprove existence ...

but I do believe "they are out there, and watching" , somewhere .

some more advanced than us , some behind, and some at the same point.

just ask yourself , would an advanced race even try to contact us after what we've done to ourselves?

they just wait a few more years and they can walk in to a planet without any people left on it.


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## oldjoat

1SweetRide said:


> Unless there's two propulsion principles at play here, I'm having trouble reconciling those two descriptions


perhaps like a peltier plate cold one side and dissipates heat to the other 
so blocks gravity on one side and drawn towards a gravity source on the other , constantly accelerating towards it. 

and as time and gravity are related , time is warped.


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## 1SweetRide

oldjoat said:


> perhaps like a peltier plate cold one side and dissipates heat to the other
> so blocks gravity on one side and drawn towards a gravity source on the other , constantly accelerating towards it.
> 
> and as time and gravity are related , time is warped.


I don't know enough physics to be able to judge that. He described it as a heart-shaped field. If you haven't watched it take a gander and let us know what you think.


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## Guest




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## boyscout

1SweetRide said:


> I watched the Lazar film on the weekend. He comes across as extremely believable. I can't discount his story but it raises so many questions.
> 
> How did the US government happen to get the vehicles anyway?
> Why has no one else who worked on the projects come forward?
> The models of the craft and its propulsion system seem very simplistic. Hard to imagine such sophisticated systems being essentially a dinner plate with a dome cover and a couple of tubes.
> He says the system warps space and time but is very nonchalant about how it actually works. At one point he describes it as anti-gravity which to me, needs a gravity to source to work. At another time he describes it as essentially falling into a gravity well meaning it generates its own black hole. Unless there's two propulsion principles at play here, I'm having trouble reconciling those two descriptions.


1. Yeah, that's not well-explained.

2. In the Unacknowledged film I mentioned above, at one point a bunch of others with authoritative experience are depicted on a panel at a kind of "coming out" PR event. However I don't remember that event in real life - you'd think it would make a big splash but maybe that's another sign of a "conspiracy" suppressing news and information on this subject.

3. Simple, yes, but probably not simplistic. Three articulating tubes, each an emitter of some kind, powered by a single reactor based on a then-unknown element 115 that decades later scientists can now synthesize. As Lazar said, amazing in its simplicity but obviously complex in its design. If government scientists have figured out how to replicate it, I guess we won't know until they want us to know.

4. I heard both too but decided he didn't mean anti-gravity, slip of the tongue. The "black hole" idea seems like the right track. I'm educated by the internet so I know everything.


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## 1SweetRide

He also didn't mention where they come from but did talk about interstellar travel. How would he know they're interstellar? He never got involved with that side of the project and never saw signs of aliens. I would have liked to have interviewed him.


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## mhammer

For a while, I and a certain segment of the psychology, linguistics, and animal-behaviour community were interested in great ape acquisition of language. Lacking the verbal/oral apparatus, efforts were made to use a symbol system and manual signing to substitute for talking. The general finding was that, while the cognitive components that could support language acquisition seemed to be there (e.g., chimps show the capacity for understanding and creating "false beliefs"), non-human primates typically did not progress beyond what a 2 year-old human could, if they managed to reach that level in the first place. The difference seemed to be not that humans had some unique neurological capacity lacked by other species, but that human language emerges out of the circumstances we evolved in and individually develop in. A human toddler requires the physical co-operation of others, and language achieves that co-operation, where a juvenile chimp, gorilla, bonobo, or orangutan is thoroughly capable of getting up on the counter and getting that damn cookie for themselves. In the presence of physical precocity, there is no reason to develop language. Conversely, in the absence of physical capacity/competence, and presence of a fairly lengthy infancy and childhood, humans are nudged towards inventing and perfecting representational communication systems at the earliest possible point.

Why do I mention this? We seem to have this assumption, borne of fictional accounts in books, movies, and shows, that any "life" on other planets would somehow possess the same sorts of motives, and analogous capacities to our own,. They might have nervous systems, bodies with heads that include all the senses we have (and maybe more), the ability to manipulate physical objects, the capacity to behave co-operatively, and communicative behaviour to achieve that, to develop technology, and to be interested in things off of their planet (indeed, to even possess more curiosity about the world than a turtle or plant), when other species on our very own planet, provided with plenty of opportunities to acquire such motives and capacities, can't swing it.

That does not mean that something we might classify as "life", that could grow and replicate (even if it wasn't carbon-based, couldn't move, or engage in reproduction), might *not* exist on other planets. It doesn't mean that some sort of simple lifeform (like a virus or spore) could not travel, preserved on a meteorite, and make it to earth, where it sits until discovery. Rather, if evolving on this planet in this atmosphere and gravitational conditions doesn't spark the hundreds of thousands of other species to do even a fraction as much with technology, or have any sort of interest in "the beyond" as humans do, what exactly should provide for some life form many many light years away to evolve/develop and have the capacity to develop travel technology and use it to be "interested" in us?

I find the whole UFO thing an awful lot of fanciful wishful thinking and naiveté about humans and our own capacities and evolution.


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## boyscout

mhammer said:


> I find the whole UFO thing an awful lot of fanciful wishful thinking and naiveté about humans and our own capacities and evolution.


Are you saying that this subject persists as it has because earthbound humans wish we could advance more while believing that we cannot so others must? What an odd idea!

Maybe you'd deign to watch the two films.


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## Electraglide

There were times in my youth when I saw what might be called UFOs and Aliens....but at the time I was usually under the influence of drugs and alcohol so I’m not sure. Might have seen something and might not. I do know that in a Vernon newspaper from 1890 or so there is mention of unexplained lights over Okanagan Lake. I’ve been to Roswell. What you were allowed to see back then wasn’t much. Cut to the chase, is there someone else out there, probably. Are they interstellar? Possibly. Will I see any? Probably not in my lifetime but I’m not sure. 
@joat.....are time and gravity related? ‘They’ say that there is no gravity in space but it seems that there is time....It can take radio and other signals a while to get here.
Maybe we’re all inside a Tesseract. I think I spelled that right.


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## knight_yyz

I Believe


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## mhammer

boyscout said:


> Maybe you'd deign to watch the two films.


Nah. Too much to do this week.
But thanks for the offer.


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## Hammerhands




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## oldjoat

Einstein 's formulas include time, speed and gravity , ... all interrelated .
there is gravity in space ( sun pulls on the earth to keep us in orbit , just as the earth pulls on the moon and the moon creates tides .)

we don't feel the pull of the sun , or the moon ( too weak for us to feel ) but it is there .
the earth bulges at the equator to exactly compensate for the diff between speed and gravity so that anywhere on earth , time remains constant.

once in space (lower gravity) and at higher speeds, time is affected. Astronauts come back a few seconds younger than if they had stayed on earth. (compared to the rest of us, they age slower)


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## High/Deaf

Nothing solid to indicate anything out there exists, but the numbers make it so probable that it's hard to ignore.

I just can't believe they haven't already visited us, considering this was the Welcome Wagon we sent out.










Granted, it's only travel about 80 light years by now, so something would have to be within 40 LY to see the messages and make the return trip. If they could travel close to C. Which is also just speculation at this point in time.


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## oldjoat

thx for the reminder 
stop the world , I wanna get off.


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## butterknucket

I don't give the al


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## cheezyridr

oldjoat said:


> just ask yourself , would an advanced race even try to contact us after what we've done to ourselves?


that sort of thinking right there is one of the biggest problems with the way people think about what alien life might be like. putting human values, emotions, motivations on them (as mhammer so eloquently said below, makes no sense. 



mhammer said:


> For a while, I and a certain segment of the psychology, linguistics, and animal-behaviour community were interested in great ape acquisition of language. Lacking the verbal/oral apparatus, efforts were made to use a symbol system and manual signing to substitute for talking. The general finding was that, while the cognitive components that could support language acquisition seemed to be there (e.g., chimps show the capacity for understanding and creating "false beliefs"), non-human primates typically did not progress beyond what a 2 year-old human could, if they managed to reach that level in the first place. The difference seemed to be not that humans had some unique neurological capacity lacked by other species, but that human language emerges out of the circumstances we evolved in and individually develop in. A human toddler requires the physical co-operation of others, and language achieves that co-operation, where a juvenile chimp, gorilla, bonobo, or orangutan is thoroughly capable of getting up on the counter and getting that damn cookie for themselves. In the presence of physical precocity, there is no reason to develop language. Conversely, in the absence of physical capacity/competence, and presence of a fairly lengthy infancy and childhood, humans are nudged towards inventing and perfecting representational communication systems at the earliest possible point.
> 
> Why do I mention this? We seem to have this assumption, borne of fictional accounts in books, movies, and shows, that any "life" on other planets would somehow possess the same sorts of motives, and analogous capacities to our own,. They might have nervous systems, bodies with heads that include all the senses we have (and maybe more), the ability to manipulate physical objects, the capacity to behave co-operatively, and communicative behaviour to achieve that, to develop technology, and to be interested in things off of their planet (indeed, to even possess more curiosity about the world than a turtle or plant), when other species on our very own planet, provided with plenty of opportunities to acquire such motives and capacities, can't swing it.
> 
> That does not mean that something we might classify as "life", that could grow and replicate (even if it wasn't carbon-based, couldn't move, or engage in reproduction), might *not* exist on other planets. It doesn't mean that some sort of simple lifeform (like a virus or spore) could not travel, preserved on a meteorite, and make it to earth, where it sits until discovery. Rather, if evolving on this planet in this atmosphere and gravitational conditions doesn't spark the hundreds of thousands of other species to do even a fraction as much with technology, or have any sort of interest in "the beyond" as humans do, what exactly should provide for some life form many many light years away to evolve/develop and have the capacity to develop travel technology and use it to be "interested" in us?
> 
> I find the whole UFO thing an awful lot of fanciful wishful thinking and naiveté about humans and our own capacities and evolution.


remember coco the gorilla? they took her to talk to other gorillas so she could tell us about them. after a few minutes she wanted nothing to do with them, telling her handlers that those gorrillas were stupid. there is a weird sort of loop between language and thought. before coco was taught to sign, there were many concepts that had never been in her brain, because she lacked the language for them. we have ample evidence of this phenomenon with our own species. we needed a language to evolve to this point, but language also helped us from the other direction too.


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## mhammer

Cheezy puts a nice polish to it: the popular approach to "aliens" has a tendency to be anthropomorphism in its purest form. That is, they must be _just_ like us to come here. The question people tend to be less prompted to ask is: just how the hell did _we_ come to be like us _ourselves_, and what conditions might give rise to that? It takes a whole lot more than a breathable atmosphere.


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## oldjoat

animals don't think like us , yet an abused animal will run away from home to escape if given a chance.

intelligent beings would probably avoid us (or just study us as an experiment) and hope we would grow up some day. 
(another human creation) 

are we alone? doubt it, 
do they want to contact us? time will tell.
do they even know we exist ? well we're out in the backwaters of the universe, so it may take some more time.

8 .5 Hrs for a radio signal to reach Pluto ( one way, with our current technology ) 
we still see the light from stars that died out billions of years ago.



mhammer said:


> It takes a whole lot more than a breathable atmosphere


so true.
and several iterations with the ice ages, meteors and tectonic plate shifts.


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## mhammer

oldjoat said:


> intelligent beings would probably avoid us (or just study us as an experiment) and hope we would grow up some day.
> (another human creation)


And the question that prompts is: "what is intelligence or an intelligent being?", and its companion question "where does 'intelligence' come from?"

As for animals' capacity to leave discomfort, take a gander at the old "Worm-Runner's Digest" ( The Worm Runner's Digest ). This was a journal, half serious-science, half-satirical (each half print upside down from the other half in each issue) prompted by research into the training, and _presumed_ chemical transfer of training, in flatworms/planaria. In the earlier days of the study of memory, the guy behind it, J. V. McConnell, at University of Michigan, was wondering whether memory was somehow stored in the RNA of nerve cells. So he'd train flatworms to avoid some noxious stimulus (a bright light if I remember correctly) by turning in a certain direction. Then he'd mince up the trained flatworms, extract the relevant material and inject it into untrained flatworms to see if they would learn the same thing any faster; faster learning speed being treated as evidence of such transfer. From what I can recall, there was some initial hit and miss experimental results suggesting support for it, but ultimately nothing came of it...except for a whole bunch of sci-fi movies in which the "memories" of one person would be "transferred" to the brain of another. Yeah, good luck with that.

In any event, avoiding noxious events doesn't take a brain, or even all that many nerve cells....or arms and/or legs


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## John Bartley

In my opinion ....

To imagine that we are the only intelligent life form in our universe is supremely arrogant? conceited?. To imagine that to be an intelligent life form the "other" species should look, move, communicate like us is similarly arrogant? conceited?. 

My take on it is that we are not alone, but we probably cannot make contact due to differences in form, language, speed of time etc.

Whatever we do, when we do make contact, I hope we don't abuse, misuse, take advantage of the other species as we have been wont to do over the last couple of millennia .... maybe we'll learn summat from them.

cheers


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## butterknucket




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## butterknucket




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## butterknucket




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## butterknucket




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## Guest

John Bartley said:


> Whatever we do, when we do make contact, I hope we don't abuse, misuse, take advantage of the other species as we have been wont to do over the last couple of millennia .... maybe we'll learn summat from them.


It'll most likely be the other way around.
Why would aliens travel lights years to explore and maybe encounter us?
Exploitation.
You don't waste energy to leave the comfort of your home unless you need something that you're running out of.
Exploration is about finding more of what you need.
If they visit us, it's because we have that something.
Will they be benevolent and ask us nicely for it?
Not bloody likely. IMO.


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## BSTheTech

For aliens to be real one of two things has to happen. Either Einstein was wrong, or our knowledge of physics has some serious holes. I suspect the latter will be proven in the near future.

And whether life can exist outside of earth. Of course it can. To say otherwise is human arrogance.


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## butterknucket




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## Lincoln

I do believe there is life in other places of the universe, but I do not believe those life forms have made contact or will ever find us. 

The universe is so vast, and we are located in such a non-attention-grabbing place, that other life would never find us even if they were actively looking. 

I think the "aliens" we are experiencing are actually time-traveling earthlings from our future, or maybe even from our past. They are locals.


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## oldjoat

ahhhhhhh ! 
white trailer trash from the future 
******** in space

and we thought the truth couln't get any stranger.


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## 1SweetRide

oldjoat said:


> Einstein 's formulas include time, speed and gravity , ... all interrelated .
> there is gravity in space ( sun pulls on the earth to keep us in orbit , just as the earth pulls on the moon and the moon creates tides .)
> 
> we don't feel the pull of the sun , or the moon ( too weak for us to feel ) but it is there .
> the earth bulges at the equator to exactly compensate for the diff between speed and gravity so that anywhere on earth , time remains constant.
> 
> once in space (lower gravity) and at higher speeds, time is affected. Astronauts come back a few seconds younger than if they had stayed on earth. (compared to the rest of us, they age slower)


Don’t recall that gravity had anything to do with relativistic speeds. Wasn’t it based on speed only?


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## Electraglide

oldjoat said:


> ahhhhhhh !
> white trailer trash from the future
> ******** in space
> 
> and we thought the truth couln't get any stranger.


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## mhammer

I see the word "arrogance" cropping up. Thinking that humans are somehow special and "better"because of our uniqueness, and that nothing else in the universe could ever be quite as special and wonderful because that's *our* trophy and privilege IS arrogant. Recognizing that it took a whole whack of atmospheric, gravitational, and slow-simmering flukes to produce replicating life-forms, let alone complex multi-cellular organisms, is not arrogance. It is a recognition of the immense diversity in the universe, its constant state of flux, and the weirdness that can result. It's a little arrogant to think we're better than the untold millions of species on this planet, but I don't think it's arrogant to think that the odds of planets elsewhere in the universe having enjoyed a similar cluster of flukes to result in organisms within roughly the same cosmic time period is pretty damn slim. Perhaps somewhere "out there", the right cosmic soup is just starting and may turn into something kinda sorta like what happened on Earth, just in time for the Sun to "go nova". Perhaps something like that came and went billions of years ago.


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## High/Deaf

1SweetRide said:


> Don’t recall that gravity had anything to do with relativistic speeds. Wasn’t it based on speed only?


His second theory of relativity in 1915 (General Relativity) took gravity/acceleration into account.


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## High/Deaf

laristotle said:


> It'll most likely be the other way around.
> Why would aliens travel lights years to explore and maybe encounter us?
> Exploitation.
> You don't waste energy to leave the comfort of your home unless you need something that you're running out of.
> Exploration is about finding more of what you need.
> If they visit us, it's because we have that something.
> Will they be benevolent and ask us nicely for it?
> Not bloody likely. IMO.


Exactly. Mixing up amoeba and intelligent life is pointless. Amoeba aren't traveling through space.

If they have the tech, they have a culture that created those advancements. And we only have one example of a technical society to go by. It is a competitive, aggressive one. Why would we assume others would be otherwise?

Sagan had a formula for life to reach a technical threshold and exist past it. It wasn't overly optimistic, considering how close the only one he/we knew about came to annihilating itself multiple times. That might be our savior - that any life advanced enough to invent the tech will extinguish itself before it becomes a threat to anyone else - kinda like the way we're going.


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## High/Deaf

BSTheTech said:


> For aliens to be real one of two things has to happen. Either Einstein was wrong, or our knowledge of physics has some serious holes. I suspect the latter will be proven in the near future.
> 
> And whether life can exist outside of earth. Of course it can. To say otherwise is human arrogance.


I don't follow. What of Einstein's theories flies in the face of the existence of aliens? 

Of course, Einstein's theories weren't the end of scientific discovery. He struggled mightily with physics that was uncovered just a decade or two after his General Relativity theory - "God does not play dice with the universe". He did not like quantum mechanics unless he could reconcile the 'physics of the big' and the 'physics of the small' with one unifying theory. A century later, that still hasn't been sorted out.

But I'm not aware of anything Einstein wrote that disproves alien existence.


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## mhammer

High/Deaf said:


> But I'm not aware of anything Einstein wrote that disproves alien existence.


I highly doubt he concerned himself with such matters.
However, I think his work, and that of subsequent physicists, would likely have far more relevance to the question of whether a form of transport could travel the required distances at sufficient velocity to be of any practical purpose. We're a helluva long way from anything, and light and matter can only go so fast.


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## High/Deaf

mhammer said:


> I highly doubt he concerned himself with such matters.
> However, I think his work, and that of subsequent physicists, would likely have far more relevance to the question of whether a form of transport could travel the required distances at sufficient velocity to be of any practical purpose. We're a helluva long way from anything, and light and matter can only go so fast.


Yes, with our current understanding of physics. I doubt you'd find any physicist that thinks we know everything there is to know, though.


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## oldjoat

horses and the wheel used to be the height of technology , steam came along , gas and diesel, nuclear power , solar/ wind .

given enough time , we will find something more powerful and faster . 

just like in quantum physics , 2 units can be in sync with each other across vast distances ... in touch with each other, while physically apart.
we still don't know how it happens , but it does ...


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## butterknucket

So what is it with these radio signals they're detecting from space anyway?


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## Robert1950




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## 1SweetRide

mhammer said:


> I highly doubt he concerned himself with such matters.
> However, I think his work, and that of subsequent physicists, would likely have far more relevance to the question of whether a form of transport could travel the required distances at sufficient velocity to be of any practical purpose. We're a helluva long way from anything, and light and matter can only go so fast.


And, I'd think there'd be many destinations more attractive than a polluted, overpopulated Earth. Why would they come here?


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## 1SweetRide

butterknucket said:


> So what is it with these radio signals they're detecting from space anyway?


Those signals are from so far away as to be irrelevant.


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## Electraglide

1SweetRide said:


> And, I'd think there'd be many destinations more attractive than a polluted, overpopulated Earth. Why would they come here?


Why not. Haven't you gone somewhere, "Just because it's there"? In this arm of the galaxy maybe Earth is the only spot open. 








That is if the aliens are as curious as us.


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## 1SweetRide

Electraglide said:


> Why not. Haven't you gone somewhere, "Just because it's there"? In this arm of the galaxy maybe Earth is the only spot open.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is if the aliens are as curious as us.


Well yes, but if I had a craft that traveled fast than light, I wouldn't have gone to Hamilton


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## butterknucket

1SweetRide said:


> Those signals are from so far away as to be irrelevant.


They were probably relevant 8 billion years ago.


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## Electraglide

1SweetRide said:


> Well yes, but if I had a craft that traveled fast than light, I wouldn't have gone to Hamilton


True, you might have gone to Toronto or even worse, edmonton. People go to Courtney B.C. and according WHO that was the most polluted city in Canada in 2018.


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## jb welder

oldjoat said:


> given enough time , we will find something more powerful and faster .


Yeah, like rail guns.


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## Electraglide

jb welder said:


> Yeah, like rail guns.


Google is your friend.
"Concepts for mass-drivers or railguns situated on the moon exist.
What you're asking about is a mass driver space station in low earth orbit that a payload or ship launched from earth can dock with, and then be propelled into deep space.
The delta-V needed to go from LEO to an escape trajectory is about 3 km/s, and to go from there to a Hohmann transfer to the outer reaches of the solar system requires a further 5 or so km/s. I'm sure a mass driver could be made to provide such delta-Vs, though it would have to be rather long in order to not smush the payload with its massive acceleration.
One big problem I see is Newton's third law. Due to recoil, the orbital mass driver will have the same momentum backwards as the craft will have going forwards. This means its orbit will be altered. If the mass driver is much heavier than the mass it accelerates, this won't result in a delta-V change too great, but it's conceivable even a small change could put it into an orbit that intersects with earth's atmosphere. Now you could counteract this by sending up a refueling rocket so the mass driver station can burn to negate the delta-V change, but I feel like if you're going to do that, you might as well use that fuel to accelerate the craft directly, without the mass driver. The other alternative is that you launch a different probe in the opposite direction with the same momentum as before, but the coincidence of having two probe missions with exactly the opposite delta-V requirements is... unlikely to say the least."
This concept has been used in a lot of sci-fi books over the years. Seems to work there and some of the things that were in sci-fi years ago are now happening.


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## oldjoat

mounted on the moon ( far side) would help negate the moon's drifting way from us at 1cm /year.

sci-fi submarines , rocket ships, going to the moon and beyond , wrist radios ...


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## Guest




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## cheezyridr

one thing i really don't like is when people trash-talk humanity. "oh, no aliens would want to come here, there's no intelligent life."
that takes alot of really cool stuff for granted. anyone who does the research to know what it took just for there to be any kind of life on this planet, let alone evolve mammals, then one or more of those mammals evolve into people, and then evolve some more to be the people that we are, would never think that way. all of the things that had to happen (and many that had to NOT happen) exactly as they did, exactly when they did, in the exactly right amounts for any one of us to exist at all is a giant pile of miracles.. we are the most complex life forms currently on this planet by a huge margin. knowing how complex we are as living creatures, and all those things that allowed us to exist at all, and still so many people can't see how special that really is. i can't imagine going around not seeing the beauty and drama of existence.

that leads me to my other thought

lots of folks like to say that because of the sheer vastness of space, suely there is other life out there with measurable sentience and intelligence. well, if you really believed that we happened by complete random chance, the idea that such a thing would happen again would cause you to have serious cognitive dissonance. the only sensible conclusion one might draw from knowing that, is that maybe folks don't really believe such nonsense, or they have not consider all that is involved. to believe that those types of events could happen multiple times, one would have to believe that there was a purpose to our existence, and thusly, admit that for there to be a purpose, there must be one whom set those events in motion to fulfill that purpose.


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## mhammer

There are many things that people cling to emotionally, even though they know darn well, intellectually, that such beliefs are folly.

One of my absolute favorite movies is_ Close Encounters of the Third Kind_. Apart from the usual sorts of appealing action sequences that Steven Spielberg is good at creating, and apart from the presence of Francois Truffaut and Richard Dreyfus, and apart from the little kid playing Barry, the guy playing the keyboard at the end who has the same look on his face as Barry, and the "You're very close to death" sequence, what I love about the film is the idea of embarking on an amazing adventure with friends...friends who just happen to be from very far away. Now, it does absolutely NOTHING to persuade or tempt me that such things could ever in a gazillion years possibly be real. But as fantasies go, it's wonderful. The trick is to not let your guts convince you in spite of what logic and reasoning tells you is just plain wrong.


----------



## Hammerhands

In this song, Earth is the motel. “He ended up in army crates.”


----------



## boyscout

butterknucket said:


> So what is it with these radio signals they're detecting from space anyway?


Let's hope they're an alternative to rap and hip hop.


----------



## Guest




----------



## oldjoat

butterknucket said:


> So what is it with these radio signals they're detecting from space anyway


sound of stars and galaxies dying .



butterknucket said:


> They were probably relevant 8 billion years ago


exactly ... but don't go back over 13.5 billion ( the beginning of the big bang)


----------



## cheezyridr

oldjoat said:


> sound of stars and galaxies dying .
> 
> exactly ... but don't go back over 13.5 billion ( the beginning of the big bang)


if people need proof that ftl travel is possible, you need look no further than the above. how else could the diameter of the _known_ universe be 93 million light years, when the universe is supposedly only 13 million years old?


----------



## High/Deaf

cheezyridr said:


> lots of folks like to say that because of the sheer vastness of space, suely there is other life out there with measurable sentience and intelligence. well, if you really believed that we happened by complete random chance, the idea that such a thing would happen again would cause you to have serious cognitive dissonance. the only sensible conclusion one might draw from knowing that, is that maybe folks don't really believe such nonsense, or they have not consider all that is involved. to believe that those types of events could happen multiple times, one would have to believe that there was a purpose to our existence, and thusly, admit that for there to be a purpose, there must be one whom set those events in motion to fulfill that purpose.


Don't forget the 'time' factor. What is the chance that one of those rare sentient life form's advanced technology era (maybe a few hundred years, maybe a few thousand) coincides or overlaps with ours, in the vastness of time that is 13 billion years? 

The 3 dimensions of physical space are huge and so is the 4th dimension (time). Nearly incomprehensible by us, given our frames of reference.


----------



## oldjoat

tying time into quantum physics, every thing in the universe is tied to each other at the molecular level. 
so one doesn't have to physically move to be in contact. ( rough approximation )

so we should be able to take a trip and never leave the farm. 
Who can say that the "more advanced" haven't already figured out how to ?


----------



## Electraglide

Most of my physics is just to gr. 12 but quantum physics (to me) is like sex with no touching, no moving, instantaneous and just by yourself as someone tells you how it works.....never worked for me. And, depending on how tight the box is sealed the cat could be in trouble anyway.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Electraglide said:


> Most of my physics is just to gr. 12 but quantum physics (to me) is like sex with no touching, no moving, instantaneous and just by yourself as someone tells you how it works.....never worked for me. And, depending on how tight the box is sealed the cat could be in trouble anyway.


Lol, I can just imagine you being in school and telling the professor "sorry, I don't want to learn about spooky action at a distance, I like my action to be less spooky and of the close encounters kind".


----------



## Electraglide

1SweetRide said:


> Lol, I can just imagine you being in school and telling the professor "sorry, I don't want to learn about spooky action at a distance, I like my action to be less spooky and of the close encounters kind".


Teacher, not professer and my first year of Gr. 12 I spent most of it drinking, smoking pot and doing the girlfriends and not in school. Lots of touching, moving and not by myself. The second year I took Ag. instead of physics and French instead of Latin.


----------



## jb welder

Lincoln said:


> I think the "aliens" we are experiencing are actually time-traveling earthlings from our future, or maybe even from our past. They are locals.


That's right. And then there's the whole 'driving' thing.


----------



## Lincoln

jb welder said:


> That's right. And then there's the whole 'driving' thing.


I'll have to watch that movie, I like the way he thinks......


----------



## oldjoat

so, with 3 million miles behind the wheel ... makes me a village idiot.
Maybe I should run for office .


----------



## Guest

oldjoat said:


> makes me a village idiot.


Possibly qualified to be a liberal politician?


----------



## oldjoat

sorry to say , I'd be "qualified" for any party .
so as long as the pay is good , and I don't have to think ....


----------



## Electraglide




----------



## bolero

my neighbour is convinced he is being stalked by aliens, in flaying saucers

he pointed some of them out to me, at night, several times

now they are following me


----------



## Wardo

Friend of mine in HS was a good guitar player. He lived in the middle of no where and drove a 67 Biscane with its ass jacked in the air because he bought the wrong rear springs when we replaced them. When we were taking the car off the stands he was at the front and I was at the back; he kept saying quit fucking around and lower the jack - I said the wheels are on the ground dick you bought the wrong fucking springs.

Anyway, a few weeks later he was coming home and couldn’t get up the lane to the house because eggmen were guarding the gate so he had to sleep in the car. He said they were aliens but I figure he was just ripped on acid.


----------



## jb welder

bolero said:


> my neighbour is convinced he is being stalked by aliens, in flaying saucers
> 
> he pointed some of them out to me, at night, several times
> 
> now they are following me


Made me think of that kid in _Midnight Special. _Spooky.


----------



## Electraglide

Wardo said:


> Anyway, a few weeks later he was coming home and couldn’t get up the lane to the house because eggmen were guarding the gate so he had to sleep in the car. He said they were aliens but I figure he was just ripped on acid.


Was there someone there named Zuul?


----------



## Wardo

Electraglide said:


> Was there someone there named Zuul?


It was in the 70s so Dante’s Virgil would still have been guarding the gates at that time.


----------



## Electraglide

Wardo said:


> It was in the 70s so Dante’s Virgil would still have been guarding the gates at that time.


No reasoning with Virgil there. Beatrice maybe but not Virgil, all he'd do would be to take you through hell.


----------



## Wardo

There’s always Baba Yaga to help out when things get really bad.


----------



## boyscout

Wardo said:


> Friend of mine in HS was a good guitar player. He lived in the middle of no where and drove a 67 Biscane with its ass jacked in the air because he bought the wrong rear springs when we replaced them. When we were taking the car off the stands he was at the front and I was at the back; he kept saying quit fucking around and lower the jack - I said the wheels are on the ground dick you bought the wrong fucking springs.
> 
> Anyway, a few weeks later he was coming home and couldn’t get up the lane to the house because eggmen were guarding the gate so he had to sleep in the car. He said they were aliens but I figure he was just ripped on acid.


Maybe HE was an alien. It's common knowledge that aliens don't understand many earthly things (like car springs) well.


----------



## oldjoat

the car was the alien ! and didn't like being jacked up.


----------



## Electraglide

oldjoat said:


> so, with 3 million miles behind the wheel ... makes me a village idiot.
> Maybe I should run for office .


In the same car? And be different, drive for office. Not too sure how far I've driven, most of the bikes I've had never had a working speedometer. Some of the cars and trucks too. Just point the front wheel and go until it's time to turn around and go back.


----------



## oldjoat

diff vehicles 
best was 1999 diesel Jetta put 875,000 Km till someone rear ended it.
close was a 1990 gas Jetta put 830,000 Km , sold it (body mint , but motor was tired)
200,000 miles on a 1972 Super Beetle (then sold for more than I paid for it)
Bikes/ cars /truck/ vans 

right foot has taken a rest since retiring.


----------



## WCGill

So there's hope for my 2013 Touareg TDI, 177,000 at present. It was a 3 yr lease and I bought it out to sell and get another. Unfortunately the diesel software scandal broke about the same time so it's still in the garage. No regrets as it's been awesome.


----------



## oldjoat

TDI is good for 850,000 plus .... 
just run injector conditioner a few times a year.
one thing , if you run the engine hard and then go to park it , let the engine idle for 20-30 seconds before turning it off.
they say you don't have to do it anymore , but there are still lots of turbo failures due to coked oil passages/ bearings.
and don't drive like a grannie, you have to exercise the turbo vanes to keep them free and moving. (Italian Tune up)


----------



## mhammer

I just bought a Golf TDI last month; my first ever diesel car. Anything else I should know about diesel?


----------



## Electraglide

Maybe they came back to see if their blowing up of the volcano worked.
The strange case of the St. Helens UFO


----------



## BSTheTech

Electraglide said:


> Maybe they came back to see if their blowing up of the volcano worked.
> The strange case of the St. Helens UFO


Cool find. Interesting piece of info. The Dr. J Allen HYNEK they refer to as the "Director for the Center of UFO Studies" was the scientist assigned to Project Blue Book twenty years earlier. Some say he was a good man, others say a shill for the US Govt.


----------



## oldjoat

mhammer said:


> I just bought a Golf TDI last month; my first ever diesel car. Anything else I should know about diesel?


depends on the year ... some are super picky about the oil (PD)
change the fuel filter just before winter (each year)
keep an eye on the battery ( good battery in winter = cold starts at -40C ... weak battery = waiting for a boost)
change the oil and oil filter at the same time ( always synthetic , usually T6 )
rear brakes will wear out twice as fast as fronts , use the park brake EVERY time ( or never use it )
clear ice from the front windshield before starting wipers ,
wiper assy is weak and should be re-greased every 2-3 years ( or slows down at cold temps and snaps the wiper drive shafts)
don't tow with an automatic , ever.
at least once a week, exercise the turbo ( spirited shifts @ 3500-3800 ) on some empty back road.

sit back and enjoy 800-1000 KM on a tank (depends on your right foot)
quieter than a gasser ( 1900- 2200 RPM for best engine torque and fuel economy )

if the turbo (or some other engine item is causing problems ) the ECU goes into LIMP mode ,
a sudden lack of power with no warning lights ( gutless ), no harm is caused and you can continue to drive
(or simply turn the key off and restart the car, power will return )


----------



## mhammer

Thanks for that! Some of it may well be in the owner's manual, but the subject index of a 250page book is rarely a good substitute for a user's experience.

Looking forward to that better mileage!


----------



## oldjoat

should see between 45 to 60 MPG. (seasonal , less in winter / more in summer)
(idling will NOT warm up a cold engine in winter ) 

the manual will say 10,000 Miles or 16,000 Km between oil changes ( synth )
(mainly highway )

or about 7,000 miles or 10,000Km city / stop and go

no need to change it more frequently ( just wastes oil and your $$$$ )


----------



## butterknucket

Has anyone mentioned this guy?


----------



## cheezyridr

when i was a teenager, i had this buddy. his name was alan. one nite he called me up and said "you gotta help me! i'm glued to the steps!" 
so i said _alan. how are you calling me if you're glued to the stairs? your phone is in the kitchen, and the stairs are in the living room_. he was quiet for a couple seconds. then he said "i dunno man...i'll call ya back.". i never heard from him again. never saw him again. i often wonder about that night.


----------



## Wardo

Even Jeezuz couldn’t save Alan but he probably did his best


----------



## butterknucket

cheezyridr said:


> when i was a teenager, i had this buddy. his name was alan. one nite he called me up and said "you gotta help me! i'm glued to the steps!"
> so i said _alan. how are you calling me if you're glued to the stairs? your phone is in the kitchen, and the stairs are in the living room_. he was quiet for a couple seconds. then he said "i dunno man...i'll call ya back.". i never heard from him again. never saw him again. i often wonder about that night.


You never went over to his house to see if he was ok?


----------



## Electraglide

Another weird place tied into UFOs is Crater Lake in Oregon. 
Myth, Mysteries, and Monsters at Oregon's Cursed Crater Lake | Mysterious Universe


----------



## Wardo

butterknucket said:


> You never went over to his house to see if he was ok?


Usually they take the house too - the beam just leaves a cone shaped hole in the ground which fills with water and the locals believe that it was always there. This kinda stuff goes on all the time but no one notices because the collective memory gets re-set. Sorta like when Adcandor was Gone Fishin.


----------



## butterknucket

Wardo said:


> Usually they take the house too - the beam just leaves a cone shaped hole in the ground which fills with water and the locals believe that it was always there. This kinda stuff goes on all the time but no one notices because the collective memory gets re-set.


Ah, that makes sense. 

There's also a burning sensation in the rectum.


----------



## cheezyridr

butterknucket said:


> You never went over to his house to see if he was ok?


i just figured he was trippin or something. i didn't really think anything about it for a while. it wasn't unusual for kids to go their own way for a while. he just...disappeared


----------



## Electraglide

cheezyridr said:


> i just figured he was trippin or something. i didn't really think anything about it for a while. it wasn't unusual for kids to go their own way for a while. he just...disappeared


You didn't live in Maine at the time did you?


----------



## mhammer

The human need for "plausible narratives" is deep. 

Schizophrenics experience bizarre perceptual phenomena, and often come up with delusions that "explain" such experiences to themselves, and seem to make sense of/in their experience. So, the experience of fleeting thoughts that, for whatever neurophysiological reasons, *feel* like "heard" speech, is often explained as voices or thoughts being "planted" or inserted/projected by some identifiable external powerful force. Traditionally, in North America, the narrative would have been that the FBI, CIA, RCMP, KGB, tv stations, radio stations, or similar were inserting such thoughts. More recently, those experiencing psychosis have said it "was the internet". That's why I say "plausible narrative"; people turn to whatever they know a teensy bit - but not very much about - as an explanation of something for which they have no other understood explanation. The world and our experience always has to make sense to us, even if, in the grand scheme of things, the story itself doesn't.

But that adoption of mistaken narratives, which I suppose we might call "misframing of experience" is not unique to schizophrenics. For example, most people have had the experience of sitting on a bus or in a train, alongside another, in the absence of any broader distal spatial information. When the other train/bus begins to move, because you can't see any other spatial information, the "story you tell yourself" is that your own bus/train is the thing moving. Because the "story" doesn't jive with the physical sensations of movement, often there is a brief moment of nausea, until the discrepancy is resolved by seeing something beyond the other bus/train, whose relative displacement in your visual field indicates that the other vehicle is the thing actually moving.

Funny story about perceptual phenomena in schizophrenia (a phrase one doesn't encounter all that often). In the early '80s, I was taking a graduate course in abnormal psychology. The prof had assigned a chapter on cognitive deficits/abnormalities in schizophrenia, and asked one of the departmental secretaries to make photocopies of the chapter for everyone in the class. At some point, I guess the secretary's hand had jiggled, while holding one page against the photocopy machine's glass. So as I was reading through the chapter, at the bottom of the page it said "during psychotic episodes, schizophrenics experience...". I turn the page and at the top of the next page it starts with "perceptual disturbances", except that the print is blurred and doubled from her hand movement, so it looked like you were suddenly seeing double. She sure picked the right page to jiggle her hand!


----------



## butterknucket

In the summer of 2001 I was sitting outside late one night. For a split second there was a flash of a huge, bright circle in the sky. I mean, this thing was big. 

I don't think it was a UFO though. I'm inclined to believe it was either some kind of space or natural phenomena.


----------



## Guest




----------



## Electraglide

Meanwhile, back in Area 51 looks like something might have been faked.


----------



## Guest




----------



## colchar

laristotle said:


> View attachment 265518


Eccentrica Gallumbits?


----------



## colchar

Since Lazar wasn't actually a scientific whiz, and only took some electronics courses at a junior college, I find his claims to have been hired to work there highly questionable. He also says that aliens have been interacting with us for 10,000 years. Maybe our current governments could keep that secret, but 5000 years ago???

As for the existence of aliens yes, they likely do exist because space is so vast that it would be the height of arrogance to assume that we are the only intelligent life. Does intelligent life exist at the same time as us? Who knows. Have we been visited? Who knows. Would they be benevolent if they visited us? Who knows.


----------



## Electraglide

colchar said:


> Since Lazar wasn't actually a scientific whiz, and only took some electronics courses at a junior college, I find his claims to have been hired to work there highly questionable. He also says that aliens have been interacting with us for 10,000 years. Maybe our current governments could keep that secret, but 5000 years ago???
> 
> As for the existence of aliens yes, they likely do exist because space is so vast that it would be the height of arrogance to assume that we are the only intelligent life. Does intelligent life exist at the same time as us? Who knows. Have we been visited? Who knows. Would they be benevolent if they visited us? Who knows.


If you believe that the bible is fact then this could be proof.
Ezekiel's wheel - RationalWiki
Or, read the Vedas 
UFOs In The Bible And The Vedas
I think the Sumerians called them Anunnaki a long time ago. 5000 years ago? I don't think back then that the average person went that far from their village so it would have been easier to keep secrets, especially when you bring the "god" thing into it.


----------



## Robert1950

This thread is still going???? Again...


----------



## cheezyridr

colchar said:


> Since Lazar wasn't actually a scientific whiz, and only took some electronics courses at a junior college, I find his claims to have been hired to work there highly questionable. He also says that aliens have been interacting with us for 10,000 years. Maybe our current governments could keep that secret, but 5000 years ago???
> 
> As for the existence of aliens yes, they likely do exist because space is so vast that it would be the height of arrogance to assume that we are the only intelligent life. Does intelligent life exist at the same time as us? Who knows. Have we been visited? Who knows. Would they be benevolent if they visited us? Who knows.


i know the answers to all of those questions


----------



## oldjoat

son of "deep thought"?


----------



## Guest

cheezyridr said:


> i know the answers to all of those questions


It's not time to reveal ourselves yet. Idiot!


----------



## oldjoat

"The same thing we do every night, try to take over the world!" Pinky.


----------



## Guest

Ahem


----------



## oldjoat

Zoink!


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> Ahem


That's a funny looking alien.


----------



## Electraglide

Landing pad in the "Republic of St. Paul" Ab. and


----------



## jb welder




----------



## Electraglide

jb welder said:


>


Looks like a guitar pick.


----------



## boyscout

colchar said:


> Since Lazar wasn't actually a scientific whiz, and only took some electronics courses at a junior college, I find his claims to have been hired to work there highly questionable. He also says that aliens have been interacting with us for 10,000 years. Maybe our current governments could keep that secret, but 5000 years ago??? As for the existence of aliens yes, they likely do exist because space is so vast that it would be the height of arrogance to assume that we are the only intelligent life. Does intelligent life exist at the same time as us? Who knows. Have we been visited? Who knows. Would they be benevolent if they visited us? Who knows.


I don't have *any* trouble believing that Mr. Lazar's records at MIT and Caltech were removed at the request of government officials, as he claims.

As someone else has already pointed out, the internet wasn't as well-developed 5,000 years ago as it is today so news (real or otherwise) didn't travel around the globe in an instant. I don't have trouble believing that some of the ancient mysteries which continue to surprise / confound us today may have had elements of other-worldly visitation in them.

I watched an interesting documentary on crop circles a few years ago, sorry, don't remember what it was called. It did not prove that crop circles were created by aliens. However what it did do was methodically and quite firmly remove from consideration many ways in which humans might create these mysterious occurrences.

There have been fakes of course - the documentary recognized them as such and explained how they were likely created - but others cannot be explained. The minute precision of them, the lack of any evidence of entry/exit of humans or machines to the shapes, the often-tiny chemical and/or atomic changes to the plants and soil inside the shapes vs. those outside the shapes, and a lot more that I'm forgetting. It cited many credible (to me, at least) scientists who explained elements of how/why humans could not make some of the unexplained crop circle shapes.

So if humans can't make these things, who can?


----------



## Guest

boyscout said:


> So if humans can't make these things, who can?


Fairy folk.
There are many people out there that believe in them too.


----------



## oldjoat

the military ... just playing with our minds ....


----------



## colchar

boyscout said:


> I don't have *any* trouble believing that Mr. Lazar's records at MIT and Caltech were removed at the request of government officials, as he claims.


I do. If he had really attended then he should be able to point to a classmate, professor, administrator, or whomever who could say that he was there.




> I watched an interesting documentary on crop circles a few years ago, sorry, don't remember what it was called. It did not prove that crop circles were created by aliens. However what it did do was methodically and quite firmly remove from consideration many ways in which humans might create these mysterious occurrences.
> 
> There have been fakes of course - the documentary recognized them as such and explained how they were likely created - but others cannot be explained. The minute precision of them, the lack of any evidence of entry/exit of humans or machines to the shapes, the often-tiny chemical and/or atomic changes to the plants and soil inside the shapes vs. those outside the shapes, and a lot more that I'm forgetting. It cited many credible (to me, at least) scientists who explained elements of how/why humans could not make some of the unexplained crop circle shapes.
> 
> So if humans can't make these things, who can?



Crop circles are made by humans, and this has been proven several times.

Crop circles demystified: how the patterns are created


----------



## boyscout

colchar said:


> I do. If he had really attended then he should be able to point to a classmate, professor, administrator, or whomever who could say that he was there.


IIRC exactly that happens in the Netflix film which sparked me to start this thread. Did you watch it?



colchar said:


> Crop circles are made by humans, and this has been proven several times.


As noted in my previous post (and in the documentary I saw) there have been plenty of known man-made ones. There have also been many that scientists interviewed in the documentary were unable to explain.

No reason to be so ready to accept the simple explanations; the simplest solution is often the answer, but not always.


----------



## Guest




----------



## oldjoat

we're still #1?


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


>


Copied from P.E.T. on the train in Salmon Arm years ago.


----------



## Electraglide

GeoMaps - Library and Archives Canada
"135 ton aircraft or space craft".
Click on Duhamel Ab. twice.


----------



## High/Deaf

oldjoat said:


> the military ... just *playing with out minds *....


I know this was a typo ------ but too true to be ignored.


----------



## reckless toboggan

UFO and Scorpions are real.


----------



## al3d

ALIENS ARE REAL...TRUMP HATES THEM..they are RAPIST and DRUG DEALERS..lol


----------



## Guest

reckless toboggan said:


> UFO and Scorpions are real.


----------



## oldjoat

High/Deaf said:


> I know this was a typo


dyslexic fingers


----------



## Rozz

1SweetRide said:


> Don’t recall that gravity had anything to do with relativistic speeds. Wasn’t it based on speed only?


It is implied. In E=mc^2 m=Mass. Relativistic mass approaches infinity as the accelerating object approaches c. Gravity is dependent on mass and distance. I know, I am a geek/know-it-all, sorry...

In regard to the thread: Disclosure has already happened. UFOs are real; it isn't up for debate anymore. The US govt. declassified at least two videos that verify them. They even admit to it. However they did such a great job of disinformation over the decades, lots of people don't believe it.

We are seeing more and more media regarding UFOs. There are two current documentaries(one starts tonight on Discovery called Contact) and one just ended (Unidentified). They even have a TV show based on Project Bluebook files. The list goes on and on. Seems like it is being normalized to me.

Are they alien? I hope so. If it is N. Korea we could worse off.

CNN:





Fox:


----------



## 1SweetRide

Rozz said:


> It is implied. In E=mc^2 m=Mass. Relativistic mass approaches infinity as the accelerating object approaches c. Gravity is dependent on mass and distance. I know, I am a geek/know-it-all, sorry...
> 
> In regard to the thread: Disclosure has already happened. UFOs are real; it isn't up for debate anymore. The US govt. declassified at least two videos that verify them. They even admit to it. However they did such a great job of disinformation over the decades, lots of people don't believe it.
> 
> We are seeing more and more media regarding UFOs. There are two current documentaries(one starts tonight on Discovery called Contact) and one just ended (Unidentified). They even have a TV show based on Project Bluebook files. The list goes on and on. Seems like it is being normalized to me.
> 
> Are they alien? I hope so. If it is N. Korea we could worse off.
> 
> CNN:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fox:


North Korea? Lol. Could be. I'd recommend you don't watch Colony . Wouldn't a small object, say the size of a pea, become one hell of a planet killer at close to c?


----------



## boyscout

This article expresses skepticism about alien visitations.

https://www.space.com/ufos-real-but-not-alien-spaceships.html


----------



## boyscout

Hmm. Is the threat posed by drones being used to cover up more alien UFO activity?

Near collisions between drones, aircraft on the rise this year | CBC News

_"The crew observed a 'drone' type object on a collision course with the aircraft," the captain reported in documents obtained under a freedom of information request. "The object was described as: solid, dark, about 5-8 feet in diameter, and shaped like a doughnut."
_
That doesn't sound like any drone I've seen! Hmmm!


----------



## Rozz

1SweetRide said:


> North Korea? Lol. Could be. I'd recommend you don't watch Colony . Wouldn't a small object, say the size of a pea, become one hell of a planet killer at close to c?


LOL Yes it would. And if it was accelerating toward the planet it would be even worse. Gravity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance which separates the centers of mass. So the closer it gets the stronger the attraction.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Rozz said:


> LOL Yes it would. And if it was accelerating toward the planet it would be even worse. Gravity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance which separates the centers of mass. So the closer it gets the stronger the attraction.


Would it really make any difference? An object the size of a pea wouldn't be affected by planetary gravity very much. If it was already at c, there'd by no effect at all, right? Unless this deadly pea's mass was infinite then would it have an infinite gravity well?


----------



## Rozz

1SweetRide said:


> Would it really make any difference? An object the size of a pea wouldn't be affected by planetary gravity very much. If it was already at c, there'd by no effect at all, right? Unless this deadly pea's mass was infinite then would it have an infinite gravity well?


Size doesn't matter(like I tell my wife), the attraction is only based on mass and distance. It would actually have more effect(in theory only of course based on the equations) because gravitational attraction increases proportionally with an increase of mass but exponentially with a decrease in distance. But if an object was accelerated to the speed of light eventually achieving infinite mass, the energy required to move all that mass would be infinite too. Not sure exactly where that would leave us, probably cold in the dark with no guitars. lol


----------



## cheezyridr

laristotle said:


> Fairy folk.
> There are many people out there that believe in them too.














reckless toboggan said:


> UFO and Scorpions are real.


----------



## Electraglide




----------



## Rozz




----------



## Rozz

cheezyridr said:


>


Nice flood-pants Rudy.


----------



## Guest




----------



## Electraglide

Rozz said:


> Nice flood-pants Rudy.


It's all the style now Rozz. Short enough my sister would have called the Capri pants, tight enough to show your religion and with artfully made and placed tears and holes (not gotten from working a real job). They seem to come in denim and pastel colours......and that's just for the boys. Another thing that seems to be going around is "flood pants" with rolled cuffs. Sorta like in the 50s and early 60s but not down to the tops of your shoes and no pack of smokes rolled in a t-shirt sleeve.


----------



## 1SweetRide

Electraglide said:


> It's all the style now Rozz. Short enough my sister would have called the Capri pants, tight enough to show your religion and with artfully made and placed tears and holes (not gotten from working a real job). They seem to come in denim and pastel colours......and that's just for the boys. Another thing that seems to be going around is "flood pants" with rolled cuffs. Sorta like in the 50s and early 60s but not down to the tops of your shoes and no pack of smokes rolled in a t-shirt sleeve.


Relicing for non-guitarists.


----------



## Rozz

Electraglide said:


> *It's all the style now Rozz. * Short enough my sister would have called the Capri pants, tight enough to show your religion and with artfully made and placed tears and holes (not gotten from working a real job). They seem to come in denim and pastel colours......and that's just for the boys. Another thing that seems to be going around is "flood pants" with rolled cuffs. Sorta like in the 50s and early 60s but not down to the tops of your shoes and no pack of smokes rolled in a t-shirt sleeve.


Wow, really eh? I guess I have been living under a rock. Back in my day...and to this day I consider it to be the cardinal sin of a jeans wearing guy. What could be worse? Asked and answered: "flood pants" with rolled cuffs. lol

Thx for upgrading my 'contemporary fashion' acumen. But hey...what was Rudy's excuse back then? ;-)


----------



## 1SweetRide

Rozz said:


> Wow, really eh? I guess I have been living under a rock. Back in my day...and to this day I consider it to be the cardinal sin of a jeans wearing guy. What could be worse? Asked and answered: "*flood pants" with rolled cuffs*. lol
> 
> Thx for upgrading my 'contemporary fashion' acumen. But hey...what was Rudy's excuse back then? ;-)


Aren't you describing a pair of shorts?


----------



## Rozz

1SweetRide said:


> Aren't you describing a pair of shorts?


LOL


----------



## Electraglide

Rozz said:


> Wow, really eh? I guess I have been living under a rock. Back in my day...and to this day I consider it to be the cardinal sin of a jeans wearing guy. What could be worse? Asked and answered: "flood pants" with rolled cuffs. lol
> 
> Thx for upgrading my 'contemporary fashion' acumen. But hey...what was Rudy's excuse back then? ;-)


Question 1.....who's Rudy? Back in my day cuffs on jeans was ok.....sometimes rolled but usually folded and they weren't tight. When you were in someones house and there wasn't an ashtray handy the cuffs worked. Flood pants were ok too at times, especially if you had boots to tuck them into just don't be around sheep.


----------



## Rozz

Electraglide said:


> Question 1.....who's Rudy? Back in my day cuffs on jeans was ok.....sometimes rolled but usually folded and they weren't tight. When you were in someones house and there wasn't an ashtray handy the cuffs worked. Flood pants were ok too at times, especially if you had boots to tuck them into just don't be around sheep.


Rudolph Schenker...you know, the guy in the Scorpions with the flood pants? ;0 j/k. The blond guy on the left in the pic. @cheezyridr posted.

Cuff ashtrays, interesting.

Regarding the sheep, I grew up in Calgary and we never got suspicious unless we saw someone wearing an empty dbl holster when it wasn't Stampede Week. ;-)


----------



## Electraglide

In small town BC everyone wore flood pants once in a while and if you saw an empty holster you said "Yes Officer" and put your hands on the side of the car and stared at the flashing red light. I looked up the Scorpions and figured here's another rock/metal band still touring 50 years on.....cool. Then I saw they might be playing at Bloodstock....sort of a metal version of Woodstock. I've heard both my son and my nephew talk about Bloodstock. A quick check says it's on right now.


----------



## cheezyridr

Electraglide said:


> In small town BC everyone wore flood pants once in a while and if you saw an empty holster you said "Yes Officer" and put your hands on the side of the car and stared at the flashing red light. I looked up the Scorpions and figured here's another rock/metal band still touring 50 years on.....cool. Then I saw they might be playing at Bloodstock....sort of a metal version of Woodstock. I've heard both my son and my nephew talk about Bloodstock. A quick check says it's on right now.


i saw them in toronto right before i left. i'd put them in the top 3 loudest bands i ever saw. old as they are, they still kick ass. klauss still hits the high notes, and mathias still has a mean legato

you'll know this song, everyone does:





here is a mello one from them, but an important song. if it weren't for ronald reagan, this song would not exist:


----------



## Electraglide

cheezyridr said:


> i saw them in toronto right before i left. i'd put them in the top 3 loudest bands i ever saw. old as they are, they still kick ass. klauss still hits the high notes, and mathias still has a mean legato
> 
> you'll know this song, everyone does:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here is a mello one from them, but an important song. if it weren't for ronald reagan, this song would not exist:


Yeah, right..... 



Another couple of songs that I probably heard on the radio.....can't remember.


----------



## boyscout

A U.S. Navy pilot goes public about something he and another pilot saw from their F-18 Super Hornet jets in 2004.

U.S. navy pilot who witnessed something strange over Pacific in 2004 breaks silence

_They call the object that they saw “the Tic Tac” because it appeared to be about 40-feet long and a white oblong shape, hovering above the Pacific off the coast of Mexico.
...
The object went from around 50,000 feet down to about a hundred feet above sea level in seconds, according to the observations. Despite moving so fast, the object didn’t create a sonic boom, and it didn’t give any indication of exhaust plumes that would indicate some sort of propulsion._


----------



## jimsz

Unfortunately, I don't find Lazar or Greer even remotely credible, they both have been shown to have no clue what they're talking about, especially considering neither have an education in physics, let alone astrophysics, hence they know not of the science (or lack thereof) to the outrageous claims they make. They have done a great deal of damage to the scientific community such that we have plenty of folks who don't trust science or scientists. They are simply conspiracy theorist nutters who are looking for attention.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## jimsz

boyscout said:


> As noted in my previous post (and in the documentary I saw) there have been plenty of known man-made ones. There have also been many that scientists interviewed in the documentary were unable to explain.
> 
> No reason to be so ready to accept the simple explanations; the simplest solution is often the answer, but not always.


It would be a logical fallacy to claim aliens created certain crop circles that scientists have yet to explain, especially considering all other crop circles have been show to be hoaxes. Of course, scientists have much better things to do than debunk crop circle hoaxes.


----------



## boyscout

jimsz said:


> It would be a logical fallacy to claim aliens created certain crop circles that scientists have yet to explain, especially considering all other crop circles have been show to be hoaxes. Of course, scientists have much better things to do than debunk crop circle hoaxes.


I have assiduously avoided making any claim that aliens created crop circles. Scientists HAVE studied some of the crop circles thoroughly. Some have been probable or certain human-made hoaxes, others have had characteristics that scientists could not explain as human-caused.

If the topic is beneath you, there are other topics here which may be worthy of your time.


----------



## jimsz

boyscout said:


> A U.S. Navy pilot goes public about something he and another pilot saw from their F-18 Super Hornet jets in 2004.
> 
> U.S. navy pilot who witnessed something strange over Pacific in 2004 breaks silence
> 
> _They call the object that they saw “the Tic Tac” because it appeared to be about 40-feet long and a white oblong shape, hovering above the Pacific off the coast of Mexico.
> ...
> The object went from around 50,000 feet down to about a hundred feet above sea level in seconds, *according to the observations*. Despite moving so fast, the object didn’t create a sonic boom, and it didn’t give any indication of exhaust plumes that would indicate some sort of propulsion._


I don't think they were observations considering the pilot interpreted what he allegedly saw while flying his aircraft at high speeds, a 40 foot object allegedly dropping 50,000 feet (9.5 miles) to a hundred feet above water in a few seconds. Sorry, I don't buy that at all.


----------



## Electraglide

Not too sure if it's been mentioned but there are things like these around the world and no one has come up with a reason why.


----------



## jimsz

boyscout said:


> Some have been probable or certain human-made hoaxes, others have had characteristics that scientists *could not explain as human-caused*.


Sorry, I don't think that's true at all. Scientists would never make such a claim.


----------



## Electraglide

jimsz said:


> Sorry, I don't think that's true at all. Scientists would never make such a claim.


----------



## KapnKrunch

Electraglide said:


> Not too sure if it's been mentioned but there are things like these around the world and no one has come up with a reason why.


Did a vehicle come from somewhere out there,
Just to land in the Andes?
Was it round and did it have a motor?
Or was it something different? 






Or did the Indians, first on the bill, carve up the hill?


----------



## jimsz

Electraglide said:


> Not too sure if it's been mentioned but there are things like these around the world and no one has come up with a reason why.


It's thought they may be part of rituals to the rain gods, the geoglyphs have been seen in other Peruvian artifacts to support the theory.


----------



## Electraglide

KapnKrunch said:


> Did a vehicle come from somewhere out there,
> Just to land in the Andes?
> Was it round and did it have a motor?
> Or was it something different?


They think they know how the lines were made and at the time that they were made the people that made them didn't use wheeled carts so I guess the vehicle could have come from "somewhere out there" Might have been made for someone like this.








Could have landed in the Andes while heading for Blythe or Hillsboro or maybe even one of the Medicine wheels around here. Maybe Ayers Rock. Got to pick up supplies somewhere.


----------



## Electraglide

jimsz said:


> It's thought they may be part of rituals to the rain gods, the geoglyphs have been seen in other Peruvian artifacts to support the theory.


Maybe, it is a kind of dry area but other cultures did the same thing. Geoglyphs or Intaglios are all over the world. I've seen the ones at Blythe and the "Snake" at Hillsboro. They might predate the Nazca lines. I don't think the ones made in the Amazon or England or Russia or other places had anything to do with lack of rain.....but you never know. 
10 Ancient Geoglyphs - HeritageDaily - Archaeology News


----------



## laristotle




----------



## boyscout

jimsz said:


> I don't think they were observations considering the pilot interpreted what he allegedly saw while flying his aircraft at high speeds, a 40 foot object allegedly dropping 50,000 feet (9.5 miles) to a hundred feet above water in a few seconds. Sorry, I don't buy that at all.


Two experienced pilots separately saw and reported the same thing on the same day. I'll at least consider those reports and the video that one of them provided to the New York Times and discuss them (and many other similar reports) with others rather than just dismiss them all because you have pooh-pooh it. Like other reports of similarly-unlikely events these ones come from experienced jet fighter pilots who don't get that job by being overly-imaginative or influenced by hallucinogens, and who have often demonstrated a reluctance to talk about what they had seen. You on the other hand are a guy with internet access who seems eager to prove how smart he is.



jimsz said:


> Sorry, I don't think that's true at all. Scientists would never make such a claim.


In a television program I watched decades ago several scientists with reported credentials from respected British universities said in interviews that they could not explain some of the characteristics of some of the crop circles they had studied. They did not say the characteristics could not be human-caused, but they did say that they could not explain how they could be caused by human activity. Scientists would and did make that claim. Any scientist who poo-poohs whatever he cannot himself explain isn't a very good scientist.

[To head off a facile challenge, no I did not personally check the credentials of the recorded scientists. I don't have trouble believing that the BBC did though.]


----------



## jimsz

boyscout said:


> Two experienced pilots separately saw and reported the same thing on the same day. I'll at least consider those reports and the video that one of them provided to the New York Times and discuss them (and many other similar reports) with others rather than just dismiss them all because you have pooh-pooh it. Like other reports of similarly-unlikely events these ones come from experienced jet fighter pilots who don't get that job by being overly-imaginative or influenced by hallucinogens, and who have often demonstrated a reluctance to talk about what they had seen. You on the other hand are a guy with internet access who seems eager to prove how smart he is.
> 
> In a television program I watched decades ago several scientists with reported credentials from respected British universities said in interviews that they could not explain some of the characteristics of some of the crop circles they had studied. They did not say the characteristics could not be human-caused, but they did say that they could not explain how they could be caused by human activity. Scientists would and did make that claim. Any scientist who poo-poohs whatever he cannot himself explain isn't a very good scientist.
> 
> [To head off a facile challenge, no I did not personally check the credentials of the recorded scientists. I don't have trouble believing that the BBC did though.]


Applying a little common sense goes a long way. An F-18 Super Hornet is a twin engine fighter jet capable of speeds over 1900kmh. When a pilot is strapped into the cockpit with full gear, his peripheral vision is limited and he's moving at very high speeds, which makes it extremely difficult to track another object unless that object is moving with him and in front of him.

Commercial airliners are over 200 feet long and fly at around 33,000 feet (about 6 miles). If you've ever seen one fly overhead, they're pretty small and often you can't see them unless there is a contrail. The object in question was less than 40 feet long and the pilot claimed he saw it hovering at about 100 feet above the water from a distance of 50,000 feet (9.5 miles). Do you realize how tiny that object would be at that range, while strapped in to a fighter jet moving at those speeds? How is possible the pilot could see anything like that, let alone describe what it was doing? He also claimed it had no exhaust, so no contrails. Try looking at a 40 foot object from ten miles away and tell me if you can judge what it's doing and do it while moving really fast, if you can. I'll wait.

Regarding your claims of crop circles, you're trying to tell me what a couple of scientists said in a tv program decades ago, hence you must have a more than superior memory. Of course, you make the appeal to authority fallacy with that claim. The claim you made above is not the same thing as a scientist simply saying that he can't explain something, but you said it couldn't be explained "as human-caused". So it would appear that the claim came from you and not a scientist, that is, unless you can provide valid quotes as opposed to what you might have remembered from a tv show decades ago. I'll wait for your quotes.

And if the claim did come from you, then your opinions on this matter have fallen to low levels of credibility.

And, if applying a little common sense means that I'm trying to be really smart, what does that say about your opinions that lack common sense?


----------



## boyscout

What a rich collection of misdirections and false axioms. Artistic, but not very scientific.



jimsz said:


> An F-18 Super Hornet is a twin engine fighter jet capable of speeds over 1900kmh.


It's also capable of speeds under 250kmh, fully loaded, and any speed between those numbers. How fast were these pilots flying when they saw this object? You don't know.



jimsz said:


> Commercial airliners are over 200 feet long and fly at around 33,000 feet (about 6 miles). If you've ever seen one fly overhead, they're pretty small and often you can't see them unless their is a contrail... Try looking at a 40 foot object from ten miles away and tell me if you can judge what it's doing and do it while moving really fast, if you can. I'll wait.





jimsz said:


> When a pilot is strapped into the cockpit with full gear, his peripheral vision is limited and he's moving at very high speeds, which makes it extremely difficult to track another object unless that object is moving with him and in front of him.


 Which is why - as I'm certain you know but wanted to misrepresent - the Super Hornet is equipped with a number of light-based and radio-based observation systems to supplement the pilot's eyes. The systems include the ability to "see" greater distances, to resolve objects better, and to nearly-instantly measure distances including relational distances - including distance to the ground. A radar pod and other instruments on the Super Hornet recorded the encounter reported by the pilot. They were subsequently investigated by the Air Force and found to be without fault.

Gosh ye sure ar clever about paintin' it all in such a ridiculous light though!



jimsz said:


> Regarding your claims of crop circles, you're trying to tell me what a couple of scientists said in a tv program decades ago, hence you must have a more than superior memory. Of course, you make the appeal to authority fallacy with that claim. The claim you made above is not the same thing as a scientist simply saying that he can't explain something, but you said it couldn't be explained "as human-caused".


That's correct. When asked if certain characteristics (such as minute chemical changes between flattened and un-flattened vegetation observed at the very edge of some patterns they had investigated) could be explained by biological response or human activity the scientists were answering that they could not explain it. That's all, they couldn't explain it, no more than that and I haven't claimed any more than that. Fogging it or suggesting I couldn't possibly remember it obviously makes you feel pretty good, but it doesn't prove anything. Suggesting that I couldn't possibly have seen what I saw does prove something about you though.

Puff out whatever else you like but this is neither interesting or useful enough to continue.


----------



## jimsz

boyscout said:


> What a rich collection of misdirections and false axioms. Artistic, but not very scientific.


Misdirection, you mean like how you misdirected the discussion by stating scientists claimed crop circles can't be explained "as human-caused" - that kind of misdirection? Funny how those complaining about misdirection are often the ones misdirecting, as we've seen you do.



> It's also capable of speeds under 250kmh, fully loaded, and any speed between those numbers. How fast were these pilots flying when they saw this object? You don't know.


Actually, I do know, he was rolling in from 10,000 feet at a speed of 380 knots which works out to 650 kmh. Funny, you didn't know that probably because you never bothered to read the official report, but instead are getting your information from second hand news agencies. Maybe you should educate yourself and read it.



> Which is why - as I'm certain you know but wanted to misrepresent - the Super Hornet is equipped with a number of light-based and radio-based observation systems to supplement the pilot's eyes. The systems include the ability to "see" greater distances, to resolve objects better, and to nearly-instantly measure distances including relational distances - including distance to the ground. A radar pod and other instruments on the Super Hornet recorded the encounter reported by the pilot. They were subsequently investigated by the Air Force and found to be without fault.


Nope. The pilot in question did not, I repeat, did not have a radar pod on his aircraft, it was on another aircraft that went up later in the day specifically to find the anomaly. Of course, the readings on that radar pod were no proof of anything because there was no raw data to corroborate. Again, had you bothered to read the official report, you would know these things.



> Gosh ye sure ar clever about paintin' it all in such a ridiculous light though!


You mean, the official report is ridiculous as are the experts who did the investigation? Sure.



> That's correct. When asked if certain characteristics (such as minute chemical changes between flattened and un-flattened vegetation observed at the very edge of some patterns they had investigated) could be explained by biological response or human activity *the scientists were answering that they could not explain it. That's all, they couldn't explain it, no more than that and I haven't claimed any more than that.*


Yes, you did make another claim, your words are there for all to see. Perhaps, you should go back and read them yourself to confirm that you did indeed make an outrageous claim.



> Fogging it or suggesting I couldn't possibly remember it obviously makes you feel pretty good, but it doesn't prove anything. Suggesting that I couldn't possibly have seen what I saw does prove something about you though.


Yet, you've now changed your story. Again, your words are there for all to see.



> Puff out whatever else you like but this is neither interesting or useful enough to continue.


You're already doing a bang up job of discrediting yourself, you don't need any help from me.


----------



## butterknucket

In the summer of 2001, I was sitting out on the deck late one night. It was a clear, calm night. For about one second a large perfect circle flashed in the sky. When I say large, I mean at least five times larger than the moon. It was huge. I also wasn't drunk or high.

Do I think I saw a UFO? Absolutely not. I highly doubt it was a plane though, as it was just too big and there was no noise. I chalk it up to _maybe_ seeing some kind of space phenomena. Honestly though, I have no clue what it was.


----------



## Robert1950




----------



## laristotle




----------



## bolero

I never go anywhere without a towel


----------



## Diablo

it seems to me that if crop circles were done by aliens, we never would have heard of them


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


>


Maybe that's what Fred was building for Slate Rock and Gravel Company.


----------



## Wardo




----------



## butterknucket

I really have no thought or personal belief on this stuff, but first Paul Hellyer, and now this guy. 



Aliens exist and they're bunkered under Mars with humans, ex-Israeli space official says


----------



## Robert1950

My opinion from a year ago has not changed


----------



## brucew

Was looking for the weird news thread, but this will do:
*Former Israeli space security chief says aliens exist, humanity not ready*


Has the State of Israel made contact with aliens?

According to retired Israeli general and current professor Haim Eshed, the answer is yes, but this has been kept a secret because "humanity isn't ready."


Speaking in an interview to _Yediot Aharonot_, Eshed – who served as the head of Israel's space security program for nearly 30 years and is a three-time recipient of the Israel Security Award – explained that Israel and the US have both been dealing with aliens for years.

And this by no means refers to immigrants, with Eshed clarifying the existence of a "Galactic Federation."

The 87-year-old former space security chief gave further descriptions about exactly what sort of agreements have been made between the aliens and the US, which ostensibly have been made because they wish to research and understand "the fabric of the universe." This cooperation includes a secret underground base on Mars, where there are American and alien representatives.

If true, this would coincide with US President Donald Trump's creation of the Space Force as the fifth branch of the US armed forces, though it is unclear how long this sort of relationship, if any, has been going on between the US and its reported extraterrestrial allies.

But Eshed insists that Trump is aware of them, and that he was "on the verge" of disclosing their existence. However, the Galactic Federation reportedly stopped him from doing so, saying they wished to prevent mass hysteria since they felt humanity needed to "evolve and reach a stage where we will... understand what space and spaceships are," _Yediot Aharonot_reported.



As for why he's chosen to reveal this information now, Eshed explained that the timing was simply due to how much the academic landscape has changed, and how respected he is in academia.

"If I had come up with what I’m saying today five years ago, I would have been hospitalized," he explained to_ Yediot_.

He added that "today, they’re already talking differently. I have nothing to lose. I’ve received my degrees and awards; I am respected in universities abroad, where the trend is also changing."

Eshed provided more information in his newest book, _The Universe Beyond the Horizon – conversations with Professor Haim Eshed_, along with other details such as how aliens have prevented nuclear apocalypses and "when we can jump in and visit the Men in Black." The book is available now for NIS 98.

While it is unclear if any evidence exists that could support Eshed's claims, they did come just ahead of a recent announcement by SpaceIL, the group behind Israel's failed attempt to land a spacecraft on the moon in 2019.

Uploaded to social media with the text "Ready to get excited again?," the announcement contained a 15-second video of the moon with text saying "Back to the Moon," followed by the date of December 9, 2020.

It is likely that this is a follow up to the Beresheet spacecraft, which crashed after engineers lost contact with it just minutes before it was due to land. However, the follow up project, titled Beresheet 2, is expected to take three years to be ready.


----------



## brucew

MPO on aliens? I think with an endless universe it would be very self centered to think there is not other life in the universe.
That being said galactically speaking, we are so far off in the boonies we are barely on the map of our own solar system, which is also out in the boonies.
A lot of things have to be perfect for life similar to what we think of it as to exist so I don't think it's common.
Also, the distances are so mind boggling the chance of ever having a, "first contact" I suspect are pretty much nil. Civilizations could rise and fall a thousand times in the time it would take to cover the distance to our nearest neighbors.

Least that's how I see it.


----------



## butterknucket

Hummanity also isn't ready for the Caramilk secret.


----------



## laristotle

butterknucket said:


> Hummanity also isn't ready for the Caramilk secret.


I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
I used to work in a chocolate factory. I know.


----------



## butterknucket

brucew said:


> Was looking for the weird news thread, but this will do:
> *Former Israeli space security chief says aliens exist, humanity not ready*
> 
> 
> Has the State of Israel made contact with aliens?
> 
> According to retired Israeli general and current professor Haim Eshed, the answer is yes, but this has been kept a secret because "humanity isn't ready."
> 
> 
> Speaking in an interview to _Yediot Aharonot_, Eshed – who served as the head of Israel's space security program for nearly 30 years and is a three-time recipient of the Israel Security Award – explained that Israel and the US have both been dealing with aliens for years.
> 
> And this by no means refers to immigrants, with Eshed clarifying the existence of a "Galactic Federation."
> 
> The 87-year-old former space security chief gave further descriptions about exactly what sort of agreements have been made between the aliens and the US, which ostensibly have been made because they wish to research and understand "the fabric of the universe." This cooperation includes a secret underground base on Mars, where there are American and alien representatives.
> 
> If true, this would coincide with US President Donald Trump's creation of the Space Force as the fifth branch of the US armed forces, though it is unclear how long this sort of relationship, if any, has been going on between the US and its reported extraterrestrial allies.
> 
> But Eshed insists that Trump is aware of them, and that he was "on the verge" of disclosing their existence. However, the Galactic Federation reportedly stopped him from doing so, saying they wished to prevent mass hysteria since they felt humanity needed to "evolve and reach a stage where we will... understand what space and spaceships are," _Yediot Aharonot_reported.
> 
> 
> 
> As for why he's chosen to reveal this information now, Eshed explained that the timing was simply due to how much the academic landscape has changed, and how respected he is in academia.
> 
> "If I had come up with what I’m saying today five years ago, I would have been hospitalized," he explained to_ Yediot_.
> 
> He added that "today, they’re already talking differently. I have nothing to lose. I’ve received my degrees and awards; I am respected in universities abroad, where the trend is also changing."
> 
> Eshed provided more information in his newest book, _The Universe Beyond the Horizon – conversations with Professor Haim Eshed_, along with other details such as how aliens have prevented nuclear apocalypses and "when we can jump in and visit the Men in Black." The book is available now for NIS 98.
> 
> While it is unclear if any evidence exists that could support Eshed's claims, they did come just ahead of a recent announcement by SpaceIL, the group behind Israel's failed attempt to land a spacecraft on the moon in 2019.
> 
> Uploaded to social media with the text "Ready to get excited again?," the announcement contained a 15-second video of the moon with text saying "Back to the Moon," followed by the date of December 9, 2020.
> 
> It is likely that this is a follow up to the Beresheet spacecraft, which crashed after engineers lost contact with it just minutes before it was due to land. However, the follow up project, titled Beresheet 2, is expected to take three years to be ready.


See the previous page.


----------



## butterknucket

laristotle said:


> I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
> I used to work in a chocolate factory. I know.


----------



## starjag

@greco and I solved this case a couple nights ago. I will let him explain, he’s better with words.


----------



## Electraglide

butterknucket said:


> Hummanity also isn't ready for the Caramilk secret.


caramilks can be very nice in bed.


----------



## Wardo

When the daily Covid count hits 2000 in Ontario which should be anytime soon I’m gonna buy a bottle of Courvoisier.


----------



## butterknucket

Wardo said:


> When the daily Covid count hits 2000 in Ontario which should be anytime soon I’m gonna buy a bottle of Courvoisier.


Step up your game and get a bottle of Mateus.


----------



## Wardo

butterknucket said:


> Step up your game and get a bottle of Mateus.


Go chase yourself - I remember that shit from the 70s ... lol


----------



## butterknucket

Wardo said:


> Go chase yourself - I remember that shit from the 70s ... lol


It's alive and well, and ready when you are.


----------



## Wardo

butterknucket said:


> It's alive and well, and ready when you are.


They need to bring back the buck five wines like Old Sailor but maybe update the name to Lucky 19 or something. Should work well for the "you'll have nothing but you'll be happy" crew. They can use drones to deliver it.


----------



## Electraglide

Wardo said:


> They need to bring back the buck five wines like Old Sailor but maybe update the name to Lucky 19 or something. Should work well for the "you'll have nothing but you'll be happy" crew. They can use drones to deliver it.


Calona Royal Red and White. Buy a gallon of each, pop the top and kill it. A little Sloe Gin as a chaser.


----------



## mhammer

brucew said:


> Was looking for the weird news thread, but this will do:
> *Former Israeli space security chief says aliens exist, humanity not ready*
> 
> 
> Has the State of Israel made contact with aliens?
> 
> According to retired Israeli general and current professor Haim Eshed, the answer is yes, but this has been kept a secret because "humanity isn't ready."
> 
> 
> Speaking in an interview to _Yediot Aharonot_, Eshed – who served as the head of Israel's space security program for nearly 30 years and is a three-time recipient of the Israel Security Award – explained that Israel and the US have both been dealing with aliens for years.
> 
> And this by no means refers to immigrants, with Eshed clarifying the existence of a "Galactic Federation."
> 
> The 87-year-old former space security chief gave further descriptions about exactly what sort of agreements have been made between the aliens and the US, which ostensibly have been made because they wish to research and understand "the fabric of the universe." This cooperation includes a secret underground base on Mars, where there are American and alien representatives.
> 
> If true, this would coincide with US President Donald Trump's creation of the Space Force as the fifth branch of the US armed forces, though it is unclear how long this sort of relationship, if any, has been going on between the US and its reported extraterrestrial allies.
> 
> But Eshed insists that Trump is aware of them, and that he was "on the verge" of disclosing their existence. However, the Galactic Federation reportedly stopped him from doing so, saying they wished to prevent mass hysteria since they felt humanity needed to "evolve and reach a stage where we will... understand what space and spaceships are," _Yediot Aharonot_reported.
> 
> 
> 
> As for why he's chosen to reveal this information now, Eshed explained that the timing was simply due to how much the academic landscape has changed, and how respected he is in academia.
> 
> "If I had come up with what I’m saying today five years ago, I would have been hospitalized," he explained to_ Yediot_.
> 
> He added that "today, they’re already talking differently. I have nothing to lose. I’ve received my degrees and awards; I am respected in universities abroad, where the trend is also changing."
> 
> Eshed provided more information in his newest book, _The Universe Beyond the Horizon – conversations with Professor Haim Eshed_, along with other details such as how aliens have prevented nuclear apocalypses and "when we can jump in and visit the Men in Black." The book is available now for NIS 98.
> 
> While it is unclear if any evidence exists that could support Eshed's claims, they did come just ahead of a recent announcement by SpaceIL, the group behind Israel's failed attempt to land a spacecraft on the moon in 2019.
> 
> Uploaded to social media with the text "Ready to get excited again?," the announcement contained a 15-second video of the moon with text saying "Back to the Moon," followed by the date of December 9, 2020.
> 
> It is likely that this is a follow up to the Beresheet spacecraft, which crashed after engineers lost contact with it just minutes before it was due to land. However, the follow up project, titled Beresheet 2, is expected to take three years to be ready.


"_a secret underground base on Mars, where there are American and alien representatives_."
Now *there's* the stamp of sanity.


----------



## butterknucket

Jimmy Hoffa is up there reading this with amusement.


----------



## sulphur




----------



## Diablo

Its just another kind of religion.
No real evidence just firm convictions. some people just need to believe theres something else bigger, better than us out there. call it God, call it ET...its the same thing with different folklore.


----------



## Electraglide

butterknucket said:


> Jimmy Hoffa is up there reading this with amusement.


Both him and elvis are working in a wally world in northern ont..


----------



## butterknucket

Electraglide said:


> Both him and elvis are working in a wally world in northern ont..


I saw Elvis on the subway in Toronto ten years ago or so.


----------



## Jim Wellington

I`ve been interested in this topic for as long as I can remember. I`ve watched all the good and the bad documentaries and read a handful of books.

To make along story short. There is a natural anomaly that we don`t understand, and it keeps occuring on a regular basis.

If you disregard 99% of all the evidence, you`re still left with the shit you can`t explain away or make excuses for. 

Some people like the hope that comes with discovery. 

Others are untrusting of anything not familiar...hence the intellectual shaming and emotion in the debate.


----------



## mhammer

I find many of the attitudes towards "intelligent life out there" to be akin to the notion of 100 monkeys turned loose on typewriters turning out Shakespeare at some point. Two things are central to that concept: 1) that intentionality is unimportant and mere chance trumps all, and 2) there would be, merely by chance, an intentionality "somewhere out there" that would result in a lifeform of some type travelling many many light years to this solar system, and safely arriving as a living lifeform. People seem to overlook the degree of anthropomorphizing inherent to their "life on other planets" ideas.

Is it possible that we might someday find something like pond scum, lichen, or even coral on a distant planetary body? Perhaps.


----------



## laristotle

mhammer said:


> an intentionality "somewhere out there" that would result in a lifeform of some type travelling many many light years to this solar system, and safely arriving as a living lifeform


For those that 'believe' that it may happen and that the visitors will infuse us with technology and the cure for every ill ..
what if they're in fact looking for another planet to exploit? Because they've used up the resources of their planet, or destroyed their environment, etc? 
Isn't that what mankind is currently trying to achieve? Go back to the moon to mine it's resources, looking at eventual human habitation on Mars?
They may show up someday, with a fleet of intergalactic slave ships.


----------



## brucew

mhammer said:


> "_a secret underground base on Mars, where there are American and alien representatives_."
> Now *there's* the stamp of sanity.


My thought as well, as quoted from the, "former" employee. I didn't even know Israel had a, "space agency".


----------



## mhammer

brucew said:


> My thought as well, as quoted from the, "former" employee. I didn't even know Israel had a, "space agency".


Most nations of reasonable size or technological advancement will have _some_ sort of space agency, if only to have functioning GPS and other satellite-related functions, and stay on top of what other countries with bigger budgets are doing "up there". I will assume that the fellow espousing these views in the article was not espousing them when he was initially appointed to the position.


----------



## Electraglide

laristotle said:


> For those that 'believe' that it may happen and that the visitors will infuse us with technology and the cure for every ill ..
> what if they're in fact looking for another planet to exploit? Because they've used up the resources of their planet, or destroyed their environment, etc?
> Isn't that what mankind is currently trying to achieve? Go back to the moon to mine it's resources, looking at eventual human habitation on Mars?
> They may show up someday, with a fleet of intergalactic slave ships.


This could be very prophetic.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## butterknucket

We need to start a 'safe space' agency.


----------



## Electraglide

butterknucket said:


> We need to start a 'safe space' agency.


Just another elon musk company? Probably get here before the cybertruck.
NB. On second thought maybe not.


----------



## laristotle

__





Zerohedge


ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




www.zerohedge.com


----------



## butterknucket




----------



## cheezyridr

there has been quite a bit of information made public from both of our governments regarding ufo phenomenon in the past 5 years or so. it has been getting more substantial and more frequent the entire time. while i'm still not convinced these things are piloted by little green men, there is definitely _something_ that has been going on for quite some time. events seem to suggest they are preparing the public to know what ever it might be. i don't know if any of you caught it, but it was also recently acknowledged that america has been reverse engineering at least one crashed ufo for decades.


----------



## keto

cheezyridr said:


> there has been quite a bit of information made public from both of our governments regarding ufo phenomenon in the past 5 years or so. it has been getting more substantial and more frequent the entire time. while i'm still not convinced these things are piloted by little green men, there is definitely _something_ that has been going on for quite some time. events seem to suggest they are preparing the public to know what ever it might be. i don't know if any of you caught it, but it was also recently acknowledged that america has been reverse engineering at least one crashed ufo for decades.



I remain highly skeptical on the last part. Do you think your recently departed prez could have kept something like that to himself, or that by now after XX years it wouldn't have gotten out in any case? If it's now really leaked, why isn't it mainstream?


----------



## laristotle

keto said:


> Do you think your recently departed prez could have kept something like that to himself







__





Zerohedge


ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




www.zerohedge.com




_Haim Eshed, who headed Israel’s space security programs for 30 years, has been in the spotlight in recent days, after claiming that aliens exist, that Israel and the US have long been in contact with them, and that Donald Trump was going to blab but the extraterrestrial beings of the “Galactic Federation” stopped him.

Eshed said aliens conduct experiments on Earth, and there is a joint base underground on Mars where they collaborate with American astronauts. “They asked that we don’t publicize they are here because humanity isn’t ready,” he said._


----------



## Adcandour

Not sure if I contributed to this before...

I gotta be honest, I've always had a hard time with the alien thing. I have been reading a series of books that I may have mentioned in the past that talk about aliens in a very nonchalant manner. 

The writers go on to describe every alien encounter as a "thought form". The only purpose of any encounter is to help people contemplate infinity and ultimately unity - that's it. There is a confederation and there is the orion group - positive and negative polarization, respectively. Service to others versus service to self.

There's a heck of a lot more to it than that, but, again, I just have a hard time with aliens, so I don't even like to talk about them or these books, tbh.

I can say that in the writings, the writers divulge information in the early eighties that they had no way of knowing. Gobekli Tepe is a prime example - there is no way they could have know it existed in 1983, if it was only discovered in 1994. Further, the fact that Gobekli Tepe came out of nowhere and was evidence of an ultra-advanced civilization far superior to the turks who occupied the land at the time also says a lot. I can't wrap my head around this. They knew about global warming. They knew about the 2km large explosion in Russia - all unknowingly verified at a later date by scientists. 

If you go deeper, the ceremonies held there are connected to ancient Eleusis - and the true sacrament that was squelched by the Romans in about 400 A.D. That's where all the good stuff is.

but, hey, wtf do we know....this is really all mumbo jumbo meant to occupy our mind and stop you from meditating on unity. 

I can say this though...based on the information I've read and all these ancient ways of being...I have taken my life to the next level in every way possible. If you're thinking, "what does he mean by that?", all you have to do is think about it.

Oh - and that whole army officer guy who recorded that pill-shaped thing flying is VERY compelling. Still, I'm not overly interested in those things.


----------



## laristotle

Pyramid-shaped 'UFOs' spotted over a U.S. navy destroyer investigated by Pentagon


Leaked videos showed at least three of the unidentified pulsating objects as well as a separate spherical shaped object that disappeared into the water




nationalpost.com


----------



## butterknucket




----------



## butterknucket




----------



## butterknucket




----------



## Jim Wellington

I ran into this image in another format a few years back. I always wondered if it had been proven to be a fake. Interesting photo...


----------



## butterknucket

Jim Wellington said:


> I ran into this image in another format a few years back. I always wondered if it had been proven to be a fake. Interesting photo...
> 
> View attachment 360762


What is it supposed to be?


----------



## Jim Wellington

butterknucket said:


> What is it supposed to be?


In the video it appears that it severs the tether between it and the sun`s surface and moves away into space. Some speculated that the object was drawing energy from the sun. How would one know, or substantiate the video for that matter?

I was amazed by the video of it a few years ago. One of the more interesting space anomalies if legitimate.


----------



## cheezyridr

they aren't aliens from another planet. for the last month i have been learning about what makes our universe tick. 
all of you folks who say "oh, there's so many planets out there, it's just a numbers thing...probability guarantees there must be other life" have no idea about the science of why life exists in this universe at all. there are no other planets with intelligent life on them. there are no other planets out there capable of sustaining life like ours. not even one. any of you who doubt this, be brave enough to do the research and see just what it took for life to happen here. if you do, you won't have any choice but to change your mind.

i don't know what's behind those ufos, but it ain't aliens from another planet


----------



## laristotle

cheezyridr said:


> it ain't aliens from another planet


other dimensions/universes then, perhaps?


----------



## butterknucket

What about unintelligent life?


----------



## Lincoln

butterknucket said:


> What is it supposed to be?


looks like a spider between the lens of his telescope and his solar filter.


----------



## cheezyridr

laristotle said:


> other dimensions/universes then, perhaps?


perhaps. or,
maybe they're beings that have always been here, but somehow managed to remain separate. i don't know. but i think we'll find out, at some point.


----------



## laristotle

cheezyridr said:


> maybe they're beings that have always been here, but somehow managed to remain separate


----------



## leftysg

butterknucket said:


> What is it supposed to be?





butterknucket said:


> What is it supposed to be?


The next Paul Stanley...star child.


----------



## butterknucket

leftysg said:


> The next Paul Stanley...star child.


Fender was way ahead of us.


----------



## Diablo

butterknucket said:


> What about unintelligent life?


unintelligent life would be preferable. That way 'muricans can go up there and kill it....I mean, teach it democracy and capitalism.


----------



## Diablo

laristotle said:


> View attachment 360862


he should combine forces with Jared Kushner....likely related as well.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Jim Wellington

cheezyridr said:


> they aren't aliens from another planet. for the last month i have been learning about what makes our universe tick.
> all of you folks who say "oh, there's so many planets out there, it's just a numbers thing...probability guarantees there must be other life" have no idea about the science of why life exists in this universe at all. there are no other planets with intelligent life on them. there are no other planets out there capable of sustaining life like ours. not even one. any of you who doubt this, be brave enough to do the research and see just what it took for life to happen here. if you do, you won't have any choice but to change your mind.
> 
> i don't know what's behind those ufos, but it ain't aliens from another planet


So you`ve been studying for a month and have the answer to a question that has been pondered for a couple thousand years at least. 

Thanks for clearing that up...lol. Don`t mind me if I don`t take you seriously.

What we think we know about the universe is a tiny little island in a vast sea of undiscovered truths.


----------



## cheezyridr

Jim Wellington said:


> So you`ve been studying for a month and have the answer to a question that has been pondered for a couple thousand years at least.


who cares how long we have been studying the universe? if we have the answers now, it only matters that they are correct. much of what we know of the universe came in the last 100 years. would you say the same thing to modern scientists? what i've learned in the last month, came from them - people who have made science their entire career.




Jim Wellington said:


> Thanks for clearing that up...lol. Don`t mind me if I don`t take you seriously.


of course, because after all, it's alot easier to continue being a derp, than to actually go out, seek information, and learn facts that support your belief. truth be told, i have long held this belief because of the tiny amount of science that i already knew. it's only been in the last month that i decided to challenge that belief, and seek out answers that might either give me clarity, or dispel my beliefs. i was really surprised to learn just how much science there is to support what i already believed, that i didn't know about. and i'm STILL LEARNING right now. i figured, even if i learn that i was wrong, i'd know more than i used to. hundreds of years ago, people who think like you do use to label scientists heretics, and kill them. i guess you are more of a traditionalist




Jim Wellington said:


> What we think we know about the universe is a tiny little island in a vast sea of undiscovered truths.


says the guy who refuses to do the research to find out that we actually know quite alot about the universe.


----------



## Jim Wellington

cheezyridr said:


> hundreds of years ago, people who think like you do use to label scientists heretics, and kill them. i guess you are more of a traditionalist


I think you have a bag of cats between your ears...honestly.

You talk like a twelve year old who discovered a light switch, years after the other children, and then proceeded to tell them only you understand how it works. 

Chuckling at your intellectual arrogance by saying "I `m not taking you seriously", gets me a response in which I`m compared to oppressive killers of the past.

Classy...in a maniacal, psychotic, all wrapped up in a bow sorta way...


----------



## boyscout

Jim Wellington said:


> View attachment 361005


OT: I saw Dark Knight for the first time a few days ago and learned why everyone talked about Heath Ledger and his role in it. OMG he was good, brilliant. Sad that he departed before he even saw it, let alone did more.

If I wasn't the last person on the planet who hadn't seen it, then that last person should see it (even though a lot of it is typically-silly). Currently on Netflix now.

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.


----------



## cheezyridr

Jim Wellington said:


> I think you have a bag of cats between your ears...honestly.
> 
> You talk like a twelve year old who discovered a light switch, years after the other children, and then proceeded to tell them only you understand how it works.
> 
> Chuckling at your intellectual arrogance by saying "I `m not taking you seriously", gets me a response in which I`m compared to oppressive killers of the past.
> 
> Classy...in a maniacal, psychotic, all wrapped up in a bow sorta way...
> 
> View attachment 361005


i never said anything about you taking ME seriously. i did say you should find out for yourself what is true. but, you resist doing that. in that regard, i compared you to the established order of the past who staunchly refused fact in order continue with the beliefs they already held. i don't care if you find that accurate. i stand by my assessment, until you do or say something that changes my mind. but all this is just deflection from you anyway. the real issue is the atitude you display in your earlier response. you talk as if my post was nonsense, without offering a single shred of evidence to back up your claim. lastly, you sneer at me, and then ask why i'm so serious? because adults are here having a conversation, and you step in, acting like a petulant 12 yr old. i find it annoying.


----------



## Midnight Rider

Real News,... have seen two UFO's in my lifetime thus far. First time was when I lived in Kenora, Ontario and was staying at a friends remote summer camp in 1996 with a group of 15 including adults and children . Seven of us witnessed the UFO one night two of which were children, one 8 and the other 7 years of age, at approximately 1:30 am,... no there were no excessive amounts of alcohol or drugs involved. There was no doubt in any of our minds of what we witnessed.

The second time was during the winter of 2015 while observing the 'Orion' constellation using two telescopes with some friends. The object appeared just above the three stars Alnitak, Alnilam and Mintaka of Orion's Belt. There were four of us that witnessed this UFO and it had very similar movement to the one I had seen in Kenora while at the camp on Wonderland Lake.

For those who think we are the only intelligent life form in this vast and mostly unchartered universe is like taking the side of a debate that is arguing for the belief that the earth is undeniably flat. They are visiting here and have been for a very long time,... deal with it.


----------



## Jim Wellington

Midnight Rider said:


> Real News,... have seen two UFO's in my lifetime thus far. First time was when I lived in Kenora, Ontario and was staying at a friends remote summer camp in 1996 with a group of 15 including adults and children . Seven of us witnessed the UFO one night two of which were a children, one 8 and the other 7 years of age, at approximately 1:30 am,... no there were no excessive amounts of alcohol or drugs involved. There was no doubt in any of our minds of what we witnessed.
> 
> The second time was during the winter of 2015 while observing the 'Orion' constellation using two telescopes with some friends. The object appeared just above the three stars Alnitak, Alnilam and Mintaka of Orion's Belt. There were four of us that witnessed this UFO and it had very similar movement to the one I had seen in Kenora while at the camp on Wonderland Lake.
> 
> For those who think we are the only intelligent life form in this vast and mostly unchartered universe is like taking the side of a debate that is arguing for the belief that the earth is undeniably flat. They are visiting here and have been for a very long time,... deal with it.
> View attachment 361112
> View attachment 361113
> View attachment 361114
> View attachment 361115


Nice Lake Trout!

I saw my first UFO when I was 15, sitting on the beach with a girl from Ann Arbour Michigan. I still remember her name. It looked like a cigar shaped white light, sitting over Lake Huron around 3 in the morning. I`ve seen a couple of photos since that time, of similar objects. It went from hovering, to very fast, and disappeared in a second or less. It was cool thing to witness, and most probably why I still find them interesting.


----------



## Jim Wellington

boyscout said:


> Heath Ledger and his role in it. OMG he was good, brilliant.


For sure...it was an amazing performance. Somewhere in my digital travels i saw someone claim it was that role that cost him his life. As the story went...Apparently he locked himself in a hotel room for an extended period to create the character. After the movie was complete, he couldn`t escape some of the effects created by that period of mental conditioning and was caught in a depressive state.
Can`t say I know this to be true, but i would not be surprised if it was.


----------



## laristotle




----------



## Jim Wellington




----------



## Jim Wellington

cheezyridr said:


> i never said anything about you taking ME seriously. i did say you should find out for yourself what is true. but, you resist doing that. in that regard, i compared you to the established order of the past who staunchly refused fact in order continue with the beliefs they already held. i don't care if you find that accurate. i stand by my assessment, until you do or say something that changes my mind. but all this is just deflection from you anyway. the real issue is the atitude you display in your earlier response. you talk as if my post was nonsense, without offering a single shred of evidence to back up your claim. lastly, you sneer at me, and then ask why i'm so serious? because adults are here having a conversation, and you step in, acting like a petulant 12 yr old. i find it annoying.


Your opinion wasn`t nonsense. Your presentation of your opinion was poorly executed. You have some ideas...that is all you have. Claiming this and that in absolutes was not really worth considering, hence my comment regarding not taking you seriously. Last time i checked you weren`t Dr. Steven Greer or anyone else of interest in the UFO research or debunking community for that matter.
Like me, you have a personal opinion, that is all.

For what it`s worth(which isn`t much) I started watching and reading about UFO`s in the early 80`s. I once spent as much time as possible outside, I also read about weather patterns and how to predict weather based on cloud formations. Paying attention to, and understanding weather patterns is a must for anyone who calls themselves a hard core fisherman....I was one of those. So the sky holds a special interest to me. For example, I spent many nights during the summer of 2013 watching the sky from dusk until 3 or 4 am...Why ? Because I had the time and interest(and I like campfires). Not many people spend time watching the sky at night. I saw alot of things I could identify that summer, and one I could not. I have no idea what it was or where it came from...it moved more like a biological than a machine. I can go on and on about it, but can`t make any substantial claims because it would be all fantasy and pre-suppositional stuff...what`s the point?

Here is the only practical piece of information I can offer....If you stare at one place in the sky long enough, everything starts moving. It`s a human sight limitation/characteristic I`ve been told....so watch out for that.

I think it is safe to say....That we have a rudimentary understanding of our own existence, that grows in it`s sophistication daily. Claiming you *know* this or that regarding the origins of aliens doesn`t seem all that credible to me. If you had said "This is what I think.", instead of "I know what they aren`t". This exchange would have never happened.


----------



## JBFairthorne

We all know that UFO does not necessarily mean alien, right?


----------



## Diablo

boyscout said:


> OT: I saw Dark Knight for the first time a few days ago and learned why everyone talked about Heath Ledger and his role in it. OMG he was good, brilliant. Sad that he departed before he even saw it, let alone did more.
> 
> If I wasn't the last person on the planet who hadn't seen it, then that last person should see it (even though a lot of it is typically-silly). Currently on Netflix now.
> 
> Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.


I’m admittedly one of the few that don’t think ledgers joker was that great...certainly not relative to the hype.
never found him scary or believable as a criminal mastermind, he just came across as a creepy lone wolf homeless guy. Killing off all his accomplices at the bank heist in the beginning cemented that, and his interactions with the other organized crime groups, were just silly. So, it may have been more the writing than the acting. He was passable....but never made me feel anything at all really. 
But for me, the weakspot in all the Nolan Batman movies was the villain, none of whom struck me as very powerful.
don’t even get me started on Bane, his ridiculous accent and stupid stock market attack.

still a *big fan of the movies*, just less impressed with the villains than most people.


----------



## Jim Wellington

JBFairthorne said:


> We all know that UFO does not necessarily mean alien, right?


Sure that is one theory that has been offered, and it`s as good as any until someone/thing can give us more direction. My unsupported belief that i will NOT argue on behalf of is....that there is more than one source for this anomaly.


----------



## loudtubeamps

Began listening to podcasts last year...bedtime...earbuds in....iPad on..ahh...sleepy time😴
A lot of stuff out there and a lot of shite sifting but there there a few gems in the bottom of the sluice box.
If you are open minded, this is a good one to digest.


https://open.spotify.com/episode/16If5PVe6ouxeDwNbtu0iC?si=0-JW5Eo4RTqwKXGGE6VGzA


----------



## loudtubeamps

June should be an interesting month for those that are following this stuff.
👁👽👁


----------



## cheezyridr

Jim Wellington said:


> I think it is safe to say....That we have a rudimentary understanding of our own existence, that grows in it`s sophistication daily. Claiming you *know* this or that regarding the origins of aliens doesn`t seem all that credible to me. If you had said "This is what I think.", instead of "I know what they aren`t". This exchange would have never happened.


when you look at all the things that had to happen precisely the way they did, when they did, where, and in the exactly right amounts, for us to be here, it's very clear. someone (i'm sure there are people who have) could write books on just that alone. in fact, the more i learn, the more it looks deliberate


----------



## Midnight Rider

cheezyridr said:


> when you look at all the things that had to happen precisely the way they did, when they did, where, and in the exactly right amounts, for us to be here, it's very clear. someone (i'm sure there are people who have) could write books on just that alone. in fact, the more i learn, the more it looks deliberate


It is estimated our Sun is half way through the phase where it is burning hydrogen. In about 1.1 billion years our Sun will begin to burn hotter and be 10% brighter to the point of it creating a situation for life on Earth finding it very difficult to live under. In 3.5 billion years from now the Sun will be 1.4 times it's current luminosity which is enough to evaporate the oceans. It is currently estimated that the Sun has 5.5 billion years that it can continue to burn hydrogen but it will become quite uncomfortable for life on Earth to survive well before that. So, let us hope that somewhere along the way we as a species have perfected the space exploration technology enough to allow us to find another Galaxy which has a Solar System containing a planet similar to Earth which may save us from extinction,...or some sort of friendly Alien life form helps us out of the inevitable tail spin,... otherwise it's lights out Amigos, lol.

There was never any guarantee we will exist infinitely. Weather all this is deliberate or not,... we are up against these scientific facts as presented today by the brightest minds who are qualified to study and decipher the Universe and it's laws of creation and destruction.

For the last few years I have been listening to Brian Edward Cox CBE FRS an English physicist and former musician who serves as professor of particle physics in the School of Physics and Astronomy at the University of Manchester. He has a brilliant mind and is the narrator of BBC Two 'The Planets' which I believe first aired in 2019. The series delivers the most updated information of space exploration and the data derived from several missions. If you have not already done so I highly recommend viewing the five part series if interested.

Here is a separate documentary, Life Of A Universe, Brian Cox presented in 2017.





There was another even more interesting and updated documentary on the creation of the Universe that I watched last year but I can't think of the official title or who aired it. If that brain cell once again becomes available to utilize I will post the link.

Link to BBC Two 'The Planets' website.
BBC Two - The Planets - One Family. Worlds Apart

Talk about a rabbit hole with more twists and turns than Stelvio Pass, lol.


----------



## Midnight Rider

Jim Wellington said:


> Nice Lake Trout!
> 
> I saw my first UFO when I was 15, sitting on the beach with a girl from Ann Arbour Michigan. I still remember her name. It looked like a cigar shaped white light, sitting over Lake Huron around 3 in the morning. I`ve seen a couple of photos since that time, of similar objects. It went from hovering, to very fast, and disappeared in a second or less. It was cool thing to witness, and most probably why I still find them interesting.


Yes, very cool event to witness but difficult to convince others who have not. The one I saw at Wonderland Lake was tracking slowly in a westerly direction for a few minutes when we first spotted it's bright white glow. Suddenly it stopped dead for about 5 seconds then began to track slowly in an easterly direction for less than a minute then, just as you described about you're sighting, accelerated at an incredible speed and disappeared out of sight within a couple seconds.

When we first noticed the object we were thing it was perhaps a float plane that are common in the area,... but no engine or propeller sound was heard. Then we thought a helicopter,... but four of us looking at it were Forest Fire Fighters and had been in helicopters at least 60 or so times each and were very familiar with their flight behaviours,... and again, no engine or rotor sound was being emitted. The object was dead silent at an estimated viewing distance of about 1.5km maximum.

I will say this,... the event spooked me a bit and I only slept a few hours tops that night. However, I didn't let it show to my 6 year old son who, as you could imagine, had a boatload of inquisitive questions about the occurrence, lol.

Looked similar to the UFO photo below as it was buggering off.









Oh Yeah, about those Lake Trout,... there are plenty to be caught just like them in most of the surrounding lakes shown on the map photo. I've fished most of the lakes in that area with the help of a friends daughter who is a bush pilot and owns her own plane so travel is free. Fishing is incredible for Lake Trout, Walleye, Northern Pike, Smallmouth Bass and Muskie. We've flown to and fished lakes that I'm pretty sure no one else has landed in by float plane. Just puddle jumping lake to lake until we find the ones that produce trophies and or numbers. Great Whitetail Deer and Moose hunting as well. Lots of Black Bear but never had the interest to hunt them as I don't care for the taste of the meat all that much.
Nothing like being in the wilderness with a guitar and surrounded by nature,... and the occasional UFO, lol.


----------



## cheezyridr

Midnight Rider said:


> It is estimated our Sun is half way through the phase where it is burning hydrogen. In about 1.1 billion years our Sun will begin to burn hotter and be 10% brighter to the point of it creating a situation for life on Earth finding it very difficult to live under. In 3.5 billion years from now the Sun will be 1.4 times it's current luminosity which is enough to evaporate the oceans. It is currently estimated that the Sun has 5.5 billion years that it can continue to burn hydrogen but it will become quite uncomfortable for life on Earth to survive well before that. So, let us hope that somewhere along the way we as a species have perfected the space exploration technology enough to allow us to find another Galaxy which has a Solar System containing a planet similar to Earth which may save us from extinction,...or some sort of friendly Alien life form helps us out of the inevitable tail spin,... otherwise it's lights out Amigos, lol.
> 
> There was never any guarantee we will exist infinitely. Weather all this is deliberate or not,... we are up against these scientific facts as presented today by the brightest minds who are qualified to study and decipher the Universe and it's laws of creation and destruction.
> 
> For the last few years I have been listening to Brian Edward Cox CBE FRS an English physicist and former musician who serves as professor of particle physics in the School of Physics and Astronomy at the University of Manchester. He has a brilliant mind and is the narrator of BBC Two 'The Planets' which I believe first aired in 2019. The series delivers the most updated information of space exploration and the data derived from several missions. If you have not already done so I highly recommend viewing the five part series if interested.
> 
> Here is a separate documentary, Life Of A Universe, Brian Cox presented in 2017.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There was another even more interesting and updated documentary on the creation of the Universe that I watched last year but I can't think of the official title or who aired it. If that brain cell once again becomes available to utilize I will post the link.
> 
> Link to BBC Two 'The Planets' website.
> BBC Two - The Planets - One Family. Worlds Apart
> 
> Talk about a rabbit hole with more twists and turns than Stelvio Pass, lol.
> View attachment 361289


awesome! i will definitely look at those links later today. as for stelvio pass, all i see when i look at that pic, is a dream of being leaned way over on a nice bike. talk about rabbit holes...i'll be looking for bike videos on that later too. hahaha

something you said
"_There was never any guarantee we will exist infinitely. Weather all this is deliberate or not,... we are up against these scientific facts as presented today by the brightest minds who are qualified to study and decipher the Universe and it's laws of creation and destruction_."

that touches on religion, which i've tried to avoid for obvious reasons. that aspect aside, considering that humans exist during the time in our universe, and in the best location, to observe so much of it, is just sooo cool. we really learned alot from the hubble, i hope they will replace it/upgrade it before we lose it.

i get alot of my desktop backgrounds from here Astronomy Picture of the Day Archive 
this site can definitely be a rabbit hole too


----------



## Jim Wellington

cheezyridr said:


> when you look at all the things that had to happen precisely the way they did, when they did, where, and in the exactly right amounts, for us to be here, it's very clear. someone (i'm sure there are people who have) could write books on just that alone. in fact, the more i learn, the more it looks deliberate


When I see all the perfect systems in nature I tend to agree with you, which of course sounds like creationist theory. 

Yet I ponder if it`s a natural thing for elements to sort themselves out over time into more sophisticated states of being. 

Either way, we are still left with the original when, where, why and how, and for spiritualists...who, questions.

Very fascinating ......to me at least.


----------



## Jim Wellington

Midnight Rider said:


> I will say this,... the event spooked me a bit and I only slept a few hours tops that night.


The first one I saw left a life long impression on me. It`s like you know when you`re looking at something out of place, something that isn`t like the things around it.

I think we all get flustered when dealing with unknowns. Some wouldn`t be able to admit seeing a UFO if it slapped them in the face, and others would explain it away as a bug or something just to avoid the personal internal discomfort and fear. Humans are weird, and for alot of us, what we don`t know about our fears and insecurities exceeds what we do know(myself included), yet self aware monkeys always try to project their mastery of existence. I think UFO`s are hard on the people who need to feel they understand all...and are masters of all, the highest life form.


----------



## Midnight Rider

Jim Wellington said:


> The first one I saw left a life long impression on me. It`s like you know when you`re looking at something out of place, something that isn`t like the things around it.
> 
> I think we all get flustered when dealing with unknowns. Some wouldn`t be able to admit seeing a UFO if it slapped them in the face, and others would explain it away as a bug or something just to avoid the personal internal discomfort and fear. Humans are weird, and for alot of us, what we don`t know about our fears and insecurities exceeds what we do know(myself included), yet self aware monkeys always try to project their mastery of existence. I think UFO`s are hard on the people who need to feel they understand all...and are masters of all, the highest life form.


Well stated indeed. As a species we are in our infancy towards understanding the vast Universe and the secrets it will eventually reveal to us. I agree that mankind has great difficulty admitting they don't have all the answers during any time period present or past. Seems a great majority want to believe we are as sophisticated as we will ever get. However, I believe a 500-1,000 years from now if we still inhabit this Earth archeologists will be excavating our civilizations and commenting on how primitive we were in our present day technologies.

This is good reason for the present day Earth populations to refrain from taking ourselves so damn seriously lately,...on just about everything, 🤦‍♂️

If the majority of people only realized how little control they have over the big picture, lol.


----------



## loudtubeamps

NowThis - Obama Spills the Tea on UFOs with James Corden | Facebook | By NowThis | OBAMA ON UFOs: ‘When it comes to aliens, there’s some things I just can’t tell you on air’ — Pres. Obama spilled the tea on UFOs during a late-night...


489 тыс. views, 1,5 тыс. likes, 201 loves, 426 comments, 849 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from NowThis: OBAMA ON UFOs: ‘When it comes to aliens, there’s some things I just can’t tell you on air’ —...




fb.watch


----------



## Jim Wellington

I love the "threat to national security" tag. With so many reported sightings of objects that make our best technology look like children`s toys...If these objects were willing to do harm, they already would have. The military will probably push the fear button in congress to get funding to build more shit to blow stuff up...and the mystery will continue.


----------



## loudtubeamps

Obama Spills The Tea On Aliens
Obama Spills The Tea On Aliens
Another link to the same interview.


----------



## loudtubeamps

Jim Wellington said:


> I love the "threat to national security" tag. With so many reported sightings of objects that make our best technology look like children`s toys...If these objects were willing to do harm, they already would have. The military will probably push the fear button in congress to get funding to build more shit to blow stuff up...and the mystery will continue.


From what I gather, the threat involves possible advanced technology getting into the wrong hands....Hence the secrecy.


----------



## Jim Wellington

loudtubeamps said:


> Hence the secrecy.



1952...











1942, Long Beach California....



















US Army 'Fired on UFO at Los Angeles Leaving 5 Dead Before Major Cover


by Jon Austin March 26, 2018 (express.co.uk) • On February 24/25, 1942, just a co




exonews.org


----------



## 1SweetRide

Jim Wellington said:


> I love the "threat to national security" tag. With so many reported sightings of objects that make our best technology look like children`s toys...If these objects were willing to do harm, they already would have. The military will probably push the fear button in congress to get funding to build more shit to blow stuff up...and the mystery will continue.


Maybe they have, how else can you explain how dumb some people can be? They're turning us into mindless zombies who can't discern fake from real.


----------



## Jim Wellington

1SweetRide said:


> how else can you explain how dumb some people can be


We`ve seen enough of these anomalies to know there may be something to the phenomenon.

On the other hand what you`ve offered is fear based conspiracy, or more likely, in this case, sarcastic disregard, or humor.

If you`re worried about mind control, look into the activities of governments, psychiatric associations and security agencies.


----------



## Midnight Rider

Jim Wellington said:


> I love the "threat to national security" tag. With so many reported sightings of objects that make our best technology look like children`s toys...If these objects were willing to do harm, they already would have. The military will probably push the fear button in congress to get funding to build more shit to blow stuff up...and the mystery will continue.


Yeah, typical human nature,... the minute we don't fully understand a nonpareil it becomes a full on fear factor and threat to the entire globe. I agree that if extraterrestrials had the interest in obliterating us it would have already been done,... of course, they may be interested in using us as their next food source.

"Soylent Green is people!"


----------



## laristotle

Midnight Rider said:


> of course, they may be interested in using us as their next food source.


or slave supply?


----------



## Jim DaddyO

Have you ever seen a squirrel in the woods and followed it home to have a conversation? No? That's because there is a communication barrier and even if there wasn't, a squirrel wouldn't have anything of use to say to you.

We're the squirrels when it comes to aliens.  Just a stupid species of little to no interest.


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## laristotle

Jim DaddyO said:


> a squirrel wouldn't have anything of use to say to you


----------



## Hammerhands

I had The Battle of Los Angeles photo as my desktop for a long time.


----------



## laristotle

Radar Footage of 9 UFOs Swarming US Navy Ship Confirmed True by Pentagon


A video showing at least nine UFOs swarming a U.S. warship has been confirmed to be authentic by ...




www.ntd.com


----------



## tomee2

laristotle said:


> Radar Footage of 9 UFOs Swarming US Navy Ship Confirmed True by Pentagon
> 
> 
> A video showing at least nine UFOs swarming a U.S. warship has been confirmed to be authentic by ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ntd.com


Ya, this is making the news again and again lately.
I don't know what to think of it. Eyewitness reports are always open to 'bad eyes' or optical illusions. And even radar or cameras it could be electrical malfunctions or something "explainable"
But these seem to be seen by mulitiple people, seen by IR cameras, and I think seen on radar all at the same time. That's getting weird now.


----------



## FatStrat2

It's making the news only to distract from all the political and economic crap swirling about. Media are master manipulators. I don't doubt that some of these objects are just that, unidentified. They're more than likely drones of some sort or a similar technology.

But what makes me very suspicious is that decades later with advancing technology & cameras being able to spot a small rock on the moon, why are all media about these things as blurry as the UFO pics & movies from the 1970s?


----------



## cheezyridr

FatStrat2 said:


> It's making the news only to distract from all the political and economic crap swirling about. Media are master manipulators. I don't doubt that some of these objects are just that, unidentified. *They're more than likely drones of some sort or a similar technology.*
> 
> But what makes me very suspicious is that decades later with advancing technology & cameras being able to spot a small rock on the moon, *why are all media about these things as blurry as the UFO pics & movies from the 1970s?*


the reason why not, to the first part i bolded, is the same answer to the 2nd part i bolded as to why.

because these things are moving waaayyy faster than any tech we have developed to date. and they can do it under water, as well as in the air, and change direction without slowing down, and handle 3x the g forces of anything we know of.

that aside, i think the whole thing is a lead- up to something else. the report is due out at the end of this month (*if* it is released on time) i highly doubt we're going to see any significant information in it.


----------



## FatStrat2

There are semi-portable cameras now that can take trillions of photos per second. Light photons have been photographed in this manner.

I can't see military mounting cameras such as these on every craft, but the technology is there.


----------



## Paul Running

And maybe a technology or phenomenon that can project objects that aren't really present.


----------



## Hammerhands

I think digital cameras were the real conspiracy. Want to hide your tech in plain sight? You can’t see anything but blocks at distance. No saucer shapes anymore. The triangular and prism shapes could be camera or processing artifacts.


----------



## butterknucket

UFO's and aliens are the same as Bigfoot....they're naturally blurry. That's why we can't get good pictures and videos of them even with high definition cameras.


----------



## colchar

Midnight Rider said:


> I agree that if extraterrestrials had the interest in obliterating us it would have already been done,


There could be plenty of others out there who just haven't bothered coming our way yet.


----------



## colchar

FatStrat2 said:


> It's making the news only to distract from all the political and economic crap swirling about. Media are master manipulators.



No, it is making the news because Congress has ordered that the US intelligence agencies issue a report to Congress in the next couple of months. They have imposed a deadline and demanded information be released, that is why it is in the news.


----------



## Jim Wellington

FatStrat2 said:


> But what makes me very suspicious is that decades later with advancing technology & cameras being able to spot a small rock on the moon,


Try taking a picture of a small luminous semi-transparent ball doing 600mph and tell me how it turns out for ya...or a hard object doing 15,000 miles per hour. Regardless of what skeptics think, there is photographic evidence that cannot, and has not been proven false... Also, it you take a mirror like object and place it in the sky, a picture becomes a real challenge

We`ve been seeing unexplained natural phenomenon for centuries. That might help to debunk the notion that it`s all experimental military vehicles.

These threads always turn out the same. One side fascinated with natural phenomenon, the other side desperately trying to create a solution from their memory catalogue of things familiar, while making others seem childish or stupid, because, well ya know, the grown ups always have the answer...

I find that natural mysteries make life more interesting.


----------



## FatStrat2

If man can take photos of photons, they can take photos of anything.

I don't think anyone's desperate to prove or disprove anything. Despite these blurry out of focus pics, the evidence (and logic) is pretty clear to me.


----------



## Jim Wellington

FatStrat2 said:


> If man can take photos of photons, they can take photos of anything.
> 
> I don't think anyone's desperate to prove or disprove anything. Despite these blurry out of focus pics, the evidence (and logic) is pretty clear to me.


Okay...be sure to send me a copy of the image you took of an individual proton with your cell phone. 

There are things we will discover about the universe as our technology improves and becomes more sophisticated. We`re not there yet, but we will get there and then this mystery will be put to bed.


----------



## FatStrat2

You aren't getting it. The image technology is there, there's no excuse for blurry pics unless they're into deception.


----------



## Jim Wellington

FatStrat2 said:


> You aren't getting it. The image technology is there, there's no excuse for blurry pics unless they're into deception.


 Ever seen a UFO and tried to take a picture of it? Did you ask them to hold still while you focused, and did they comply?

I`ve seen 2 unidentified flying objects. I used to look up alot for reasons I`m not going into. Neither time did I have a camera, and quite frankly with most people carrying cell phones, unless the thing was large, and parked itself close to you it wouldn`t show up as anything but a blob of color or contrast. 

Have you ever watched the outline of a entirely chrome 747 flash in and out of vision at 2 miles...I have...the mirror effect I spoke of earlier. Just one of the things that affect this argument either way...another natural anomaly for our eyes, yet that`s real as well.

There are lots of images both digital and film format that image experts can find no fault with. Some non experts have a mental block however... 

It`s great listening to you attempt to frame an event created by a possible technology that we can`t comprehend with technology you are familiar with. It`s what we`ve always done, because its all we have.

I get it just fine, I just don`t agree with you.


----------



## tomee2

FatStrat2 said:


> You aren't getting it. The image technology is there, there's no excuse for blurry pics unless they're into deception.


Image technology is pretty advanced for sure, but when something suddenly appears then disappears it's not often that exactly what is needed for the perfect photograph is in your hand. 
The efforts needed to photograph a photon in a lab are not comparable to whatever might be needed to photograph the unknown things people claim to see.


----------



## laristotle

Jim Wellington said:


> It`s great listening to you attempt to frame an event created by a possible technology that we can`t comprehend with technology you are familiar with. It`s what we`ve always done, because its all we have.


Like the '96 movie 'Independence Day', where an alien invasion was thwarted by a computer virus sent from a '95 Mac laptop?


----------



## Jim Wellington

laristotle said:


> Like the '96 movie 'Independence Day', where an alien invasion was thwarted by a computer virus sent from a '95 Mac laptop?


More like a civilization so old we don`t even understand their motivations because they`ve moved so far beyond the things that concern us.

If a being shares nothing in common with another being, understanding or even conceiving the other from one point of view, becomes an erroneous exercise. You have to develop a common interpretation of what surrounds both parties, only then can any type of understanding be realized between the two. 

We share a common origin with everything on this planet, so some things can be taken for granted. No so with an extra-terrestrial, you start from scratch.

I`d like to go back in time and hand a cell phone to the reigning pope in the 1600`s...I`d die at the hands of a church inquisitor shortly there after. The pope would confuse my technology for satanic or paganistic majik. That`s what I mean.


----------



## jb welder

This was an interesting read: How Harry Reid, a Terrorist Interrogator and the Singer From Blink-182 Took UFOs Mainstream

There is a lot of stuff that has been going on behind the scenes for quite a while now. The internet age means it's harder to keep these things under wraps. That is part of the reason it is getting more prevalent in the media.


----------



## loudtubeamps

Apparently government agencies in the US will be sharing info in the near future with respect to compiling UFO info.NOAA in particular is rumoured to have hours of satellite data to sift through.


----------



## loudtubeamps

jb welder said:


> This was an interesting read: How Harry Reid, a Terrorist Interrogator and the Singer From Blink-182 Took UFOs Mainstream
> 
> There is a lot of stuff that has been going on behind the scenes for quite a while now. The internet age means it's harder to keep these things under wraps. That is part of the reason it is getting more prevalent in the media.


I heard a podcast where it's been said that the US government made it illegal for any government employees to report UFO sightings in the late 50's.....early 60's?
Apparently the law passed had consequences of fines up to 10k and possibly imprisonment.
That law was rescinded about 10 years ago and now reports of sightings are encouraged.
Part 1 of 2......


https://open.spotify.com/episode/5oKQyAGtKPIEbNeTwFdOKr?si=ajtQ33NcRRC9I7DtU0S7Dw


----------



## loudtubeamps

A good read here as well.








How the Pentagon Started Taking U.F.O.s Seriously


For decades, flying saucers were a punch line. Then the U.S. government got over the taboo.




www.newyorker.com


----------



## loudtubeamps

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3KZb7dreGWD1UaMgWSwKZm?si=pA2oNlL-TpaN4Cog0GjZyQ&dl_branch=1


Good podcast...deep into propulsion and anti gravity.
Almost believable.


----------



## loudtubeamps

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2VZoMLwdS56RdFz5aUy75p?si=AbXoqC33Tje2SLH1TlkK1A&dl_branch=1


----------



## PGuitar6

I want to believe...but I've never seen anything myself.


----------



## butterknucket




----------



## laristotle

_








'UFOs are real' is the dumbest story of 2021. Seriously, we're not being visited by little green men


Taylor Noakes: People have reported seeing strange things since the dawn of time, but whereas people once thought they saw ghosts or monsters, today they see…




nationalpost.com




The story has other problems. The grainy F-18 gun camera footage and digital photographs offered as irrefutable proof were obtained surreptitiously by Christopher K. Mellon, a former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence. Though it’s rarely mentioned, Mellon and Elizondo are partners with former Blink-182 frontman Tom DeLonge in something called “To the Stars…Academy of Arts & Science.” To The Stars is promoted as a UFO research outfit, but is really just a television production company. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for past-their-prime pop stars broadening their horizons, but DeLonge has presented his company as the only legitimate way for defence department officials to talk about UFOs. They also want to crowdsource funding to build the spacecraft they believe they’re seeing. So far they’ve produced a television series. _


----------



## Diablo

Surely today’s photographic technology is adequate to get some good pics during the anal probing that most witnesses seem to claim occurs.

its funny how now that everyone has a camera with them at all times, those sorts of stories have become much rarer.


----------



## mhammer

It was a warm muggy evening the other night. When I went to get a drink from the fridge in a dark kitchen, I could have sworn I saw a firefly outside the kitchen window in the dark. I had never seen them before. I was pretty sure it wasn't just the reflection of something in the kitchen on the inside of the window, because it moved around like an insect. I looked again and again, but no further illumination. Were my eyes deceiving me, or do fireflies only light up for a moment or two and then shut down?

One more UFO.


----------



## butterknucket




----------



## cheezyridr

laristotle said:


> _
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 'UFOs are real' is the dumbest story of 2021. Seriously, we're not being visited by little green men
> 
> 
> Taylor Noakes: People have reported seeing strange things since the dawn of time, but whereas people once thought they saw ghosts or monsters, today they see…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nationalpost.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The story has other problems. The grainy F-18 gun camera footage and digital photographs offered as irrefutable proof were obtained surreptitiously by Christopher K. Mellon, _


an important detail you seem to be disregarding is, those videos were publicly confirmed by the pentagon, and the director of national intelligence


----------



## wertub97

Great discussion here!

I also believe in this universe .


----------



## Jim Wellington

‘What if we’re the ants in this network of civilisations?’ asks UFO expert, as he says we should prepare for imminent ET contact


One of the founders of a new group formed last month, the International Coalition of Extraterrestrial Research, explains its mission to RT.com – and why he’s convinced aliens frequently visit Earth.




www.rt.com





The next big deception.....

I read about project "Blue Beam" a few years ago...sounds so far fetched, but then when you think how idiotic the elite on this planet act... One of the possible explanations regarding aliens is a military hoax...an external threat so we`ll rally around their their power paradigm.

Lots of doomsday links on Blue Beam if you`ve never heard of it before.


----------



## butterknucket




----------



## Diablo

cheezyridr said:


> an important detail you seem to be disregarding is, those videos were publicly confirmed by the pentagon, and the director of national intelligence


yet they dont seem worried? Have they gone to congress looking for additional spending to defend against UFO's? hmmmm....








any time a potential threat to the US isnt seen as an opportunity for more government spending, something smells fishy.


----------



## cheezyridr

Diablo said:


> yet they dont seem worried? Have they gone to congress looking for additional spending to defend against UFO's? hmmmm....
> View attachment 372066
> 
> any time a potential threat to the US isnt seen as an opportunity for more government spending, something smells fishy.


it smells fishy from more than one direction. 
the point you make i think it's not as important as you seem to feel it is. certainly, if the gov't was after money to bump the defense budget, drumming up fear would be really easy. the money wouldn't be hard to get, there are alot of people just waiting to be afraid of something, anything. covid is proof enough of that.

my instinct says it's something else they're after. maybe it's a misdirection of some kind? the old "look over here, while i do this other thing over there". so far, we've learned absolutely nothing we didn't already know. for something so "big" a surprising number of news sources aren't covering it at all. tons of opinion/editorial folks are completely ignoring it. i can't shake the feeling that what ever the intended purpose of all this is/was, it failed to deliver, and in a few months, it will be forgotten by the few media types that are covering it now


----------



## mhammer

My sense is that there IS some concern, but it's mostly from an aeronautical safety perspective. ALL aerospace vehicles and devices have to be accounted for at all times, so that there are no collisions, or misinterpreted "attacks". That includes not only hobby drones but commercial flights, private planes, satellites, weather balloons, rockets, etc. If there's stuff "up there" that is unpredictable, unannounced, "unidentified", and of sufficient size, that poses a safety issue. Large planes have been downed by mere geese getting sucked into turbines.. "Aliens" don't have to be involved at all.


----------



## cheezyridr

mhammer said:


> My sense is that there IS some concern, but it's mostly from an aeronautical safety perspective. ALL aerospace vehicles and devices have to be accounted for at all times, so that there are no collisions, or misinterpreted "attacks". That includes not only hobby drones but commercial flights, private planes, satellites, weather balloons, rockets, etc. If there's stuff "up there" that is unpredictable, unannounced, "unidentified", and of sufficient size, that poses a safety issue. Large planes have been downed by mere geese getting sucked into turbines.. "Aliens" don't have to be involved at all.


as far as John Q Public knows, no ufo has ever collided with...anything. (unless we're counting roswell, but even then, it was one time, almost 75 yrs ago) even the _alleged_ near misses are very few, and all the ones i'm aware of were deliberate, and no accident. i'm referring to the few commercial pilots who publicly reported being shadowed by ufos. even when reading of the foo fighter incident, there were no near misses mentioned at all. certainly during the chaos that is understood in a major ww2 air battle, if there were going to be some impacts or near misses, it would have been during a scenario like that.

air traffic safety would be a concern, but in this case, it doesn't seem to be an issue, especially considering the maneuverability they seem to routinely display.

all that said, it's my opinion based on my very limited knowledge of ufos. just speculation. i would also point out the faa has had nothing public at all to say about any of this so far.


----------



## dick lyle

Its very hard to believe humans are the most intelligent beings in the universe, I believe in a much greater intelligence out there somewhere


----------



## laristotle

dick lyle said:


> I believe in a much greater intelligence out there somewhere


----------



## leftysg

laristotle said:


>


[h://video]


----------



## cheezyridr

dick lyle said:


> Its very hard to believe humans are the most intelligent beings in the universe, I believe in a much greater intelligence out there somewhere


it's much more likely that the "greater intelligence" you refer to has been here the entire time, rather than being "out there".
for examples, we have things like the pyramids, and other ancient sites that display technologies we do not currently posses. just because we don't have evidence that they were created by non humans, doesn't rule out the possibility of parallel civilizations or non human entities. there are plenty of theories in the different studies which we generally treat as fact even though they are only theories.


----------



## laristotle

cheezyridr said:


> ancient sites that display technologies we do not currently posses


As is happening now, there were probably generations that became too comfortable and dummied down.
Hence, the lost technologies, science and skills?


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## cheezyridr

laristotle said:


> As is happening now, there were probably generations that became too comfortable and dummied down.
> Hence, the lost technologies, science and skills?


that certainly seems plausible to a barely educated person like myself. imagine this (horrible) scenario:

a disease or natural disaster of some kind kills off 70% of humanity. the remainder will be made up of a mixture of people from all classes *even if* the remainder was made up of an exactly equal mixture of people from all disciplines, you wouldn't have enough people to maintain the infrastructure that supports the civilization we currently know. within one generation, humanity will begin to rapidly shed technological knowledge and ability. soon after, the technologies we'd preserve would be those most effective for immediate survival and comfort. farmers and laborers would immediately be more important than nuclear scientists when we can't maintain reactors, for example. lots of other technologies would disappear because we'd no longer have the supporting tech to use them. without abundant power sources to operate chemical labs and all the paraphernalia that they use, modern medicine, plastics, modern farming, aviation, communications and a host of other high functioning aspects of modern life would vanish with a quickness. we'd go back to living in the iron age almost instantly. you can use your imagination to think about how law enforcement, government, and culture would degrade as well. for 2nd generation people in a dystopian world like that, what would a skyscraper or a nuke plant or cern look like in their eyes? it might as well be a pyramid


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## butterknucket

laristotle said:


> As is happening now, there were probably generations that became too comfortable and dummied down.
> Hence, the lost technologies, science and skills?


Like using slide rules!


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## laristotle

butterknucket said:


> Like using slide rules!


or an abacus.


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