# Fractal Audio Systems AX8 (not FX8)



## jbealsmusic

Cliff posted this a couple of days ago with the comment, "I will not be answering any questions at this time. I’ll let you all speculate wildly and occasionally I’ll come in here for a chuckle."









He later followed up with this info:"I’ll just say a few things:
It is not an Axe-Fx. It won’t be able to do two amps or two cabs. It won’t have things like the Vocoder and other esoteric blocks. It’s a stripped down floor version at an *aggressive price*.
It *will have G3 modeling* and user IR slots. It has two dual-core DSPs, one for amp modeling the other for effects. These DSPs are slower than the ones in the Axe-Fx so it won’t be able to do two instance of amps.
There will be block compatibility between the Axe-Fx and the AX-8 meaning you can copy blocks from your Axe-Fx presets into the AX-8.
It has USB, XLR outs for FOH, 1/4 outputs for local monitoring and an FX loop. Four expression pedal inputs. AC powered, no wall-wart."​ 
Well........
- High quality amp/cab/effects models in a floor-based unit? check
- Fx-loop, XLR outs, and no wall wart? check
- USB? (hopefully that means interface and PC-based preset editing) check (maybe)
- Advanced routing and "scenes"? check

This literally has everything I've been looking for in a digital unit ever since I started buying digital gear around 10 years ago. I wonder what "aggressive price" means coming from Fractal. If it means anything close to $1K USD, they already have my money and don't even know it yet.

They never made indication that the FX8 was going to be aggressively priced and it is $1349. Maybe it'll come in around $1200? I'm thinking (and hoping) this is going to take the totally vacant ~$1000 spot in the middle of the market.


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## traynor_garnet

Depending on price, they may sell a boat load of these. Any idea of release date?

TG


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## jbealsmusic

traynor_garnet said:


> Depending on price, they may sell a boat load of these. Any idea of release date?
> 
> TG


Nothing solid, but knowing FAS's history of announcement vs release, it will probably be about a year from now.


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## Guest

Pretty glowing knobs.


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## jbealsmusic

iaresee said:


> Pretty glowing knobs.


Easy to see your settings and make adjustments on the fly on a dark stage.


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## Guest

It's going to make a _perfect_ backup rig. No compromises, completely compatible with my AFII blocks.


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## Budda

Basically built for the people who only need one amp and a few effects, but like what Cliff's doing.

I think its very cool, however i wont be lining up to buy one.


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## jbealsmusic

iaresee said:


> It's going to make a _perfect_ backup rig. No compromises, completely compatible with my AFII blocks.


Well... Some compromises. Less processing power means less complex presets (no dual amps) and some amps/effects will be excluded (mainly the ones that use more DSP).


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## Guest

jbealsmusic said:


> Well... Some compromises. Less processing power means less complex presets (no dual amps) and some amps/effects will be excluded (mainly the ones that use more DSP).


No compromises meaning I get to keep my Fractal sounds in my backup rig and don't have to dumb it down to Line6 levels!


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## Milkman

But....the Line 6 HD500X DOES do two amps and two cabs for around $500.

I don't mind paying more if I get more but I've heard a few Axe FX rigs and yes, they sound great, but not enough of an improvement for me to justify the added cost.

I certainly wouldn't pay twice or three times as much for less function.

Dumb is as dumb does I always say (or maybe that was Forest Gump).


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## Voxguy76

Agreed. For the price of a HD500, it's hard to beat. I honestly don't think the new AX8 will be in the same market price as any of the Pod HD line. Understandably so, I've had an Axe-fx and the sound is amazing. However if the speculation is accurate and this new AX8 is pushed out at $1200 USD or up, I would assume most will stick with their POD's or full Axe-fx2's and not a dumbed down version of the Axe-fx, despite the form factor


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## dradlin

Check out Amplifire from Atomic Amps... at $599 usd it sounds to be quite promising and head and shoulders above HD500. It seems to me that Fractal is playing catch-up and trying to stall Amplifire sales, however with a product that is far from release and no known price point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Guest

"Hey, I've never played this thing you're talking about but it can't be any better than what I've got so you're dumb" -- solid logic. Solid.


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## Milkman

iaresee said:


> "Hey, I've never played this thing you're talking about but it can't be any better than what I've got so you're dumb" -- solid logic. Solid.



Hmmm, I just went back through the thread looking for this quote. Putting words in someone's mouth?

If the scaled back unit has less capabilities than the normal Axe FX, and costs twice as much as the HD500X why is it dumb to realize it's not a suitable device for me?

And by the way, I wasn't the one to introduce the word dumb to this discussion.


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## 4345567

__________


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## jbealsmusic

Can't we all just get along!??! There are places in the market for both units. Also, with the new Zoom stuff priced under $300? It's a good time to be a guitar player. Lots of great gear for all types of players!

I find I can get a satisfactory tone from units in all price ranges. Sure, the $2K+ unit will sound better to my ears, but no one other than a select few guitar players in the crowd will notice the difference. For me, it is more about function than tone. Getting a decent sound is one thing. Getting a decent functionality is another.

I'm primarily interested in the AX8 because of its "Scenes" function. "Scenes" is the dream function that I've been waiting 10 years to see in digital units. I never understood why no one did it because it seemed like it would be so trivial to implement. It also eliminates many of the issues I have with digital units (dropout/latency between presets, lack of fx-bleed, etc.) Also, if it adopts the same advanced signal chain control as the Axe-fx, it is already a winner for me. But we'll have to wait and see about that.....

I've used almost every piece of digital gear under $1000 and they always came up short. Not necessarily because of tone issues, but more because they lacked either the physical durability/reliability or routing/control functionality that I wanted. Hopefully the AX8 will fill the void.


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## Guest

Milkman said:


> Hmmm, I just went back through the thread looking for this quote. Putting words in someone's mouth?
> 
> If the scaled back unit has less capabilities than the normal Axe FX, and costs twice as much as the HD500X why is it dumb to realize it's not a suitable device for me?


It isn't dumb to realize that's suitable or not for you. But you weren't talking about you when you said:



> Dumb is as dumb does I always say (or maybe that was Forest Gump).


And no reasonable person reading that would think you were talking about you. You know when you're fanning the flames as much as you knew my post, that neither quote your post or was in in a threaded reply to your post, was _probably_ aimed at you.



> And by the way, I wasn't the one to introduce the word dumb to this discussion.


Yes, you were. See above quote.

- - - Updated - - -



jbealsmusic said:


> I've used almost every piece of digital gear under $1000 and they always came up short. Not necessarily because of tone issues, but more because they lacked either the physical durability/reliability or routing/control functionality that I wanted. Hopefully the AX8 will fill the void.


I'm worried the AX8, like the FX8, won't keep the matrix grid that AxeFx has -- it'd be a bummer if routing wasn't as flexible as it is in the AxeFx unit. The matrix routing in the AxeFx is one of the things that sets it head and shoulders above the competition at any level. It's only real equivalent is something like a Switchblade matrix switcher. We'll see, though, maybe it'll have a simplified matrix.


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## Milkman

nkjanssen said:


> Some people spend way more on their cars than I ever would on mine. Some of those people accuse people like me of simply not appreciating "the finer things in life". Maybe that's true. Or maybe people who spend more on their cars than I do just have different priorities and place different value on certain things than I do. Or maybe those people are just dumb.


Maybe everybody's dumb.

Do you have a point or are you just being your usual self?


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## Milkman

iaresee said:


> It isn't dumb to realize that's suitable or not for you. But you weren't talking about you when you said:
> 
> 
> 
> And no reasonable person reading that would think you were talking about you. You know when you're fanning the flames as much as you knew my post, that neither quote your post or was in in a threaded reply to your post, was _probably_ aimed at you.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, you were. See above quote.
> 
> - - - Updated - - -


Listen bud, your post said "dumb it down like Line 6". 

Fact.

Deal with it.

And just because you seem to have trouble understanding, I was indeed talking about me. What do I care what somebody else buys or uses?


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## Voxguy76

Easy Boys...it's just gear talk. Let's keep it civil, after all it is just gear....this isn't TGP


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## Milkman

Ok by me.

If I thought the Fractal was a significant improvement I'd have no problem moving up to that price range, but I think in order to have a noticable improvement I'd need to go to the full Axe FX.

I have no doubt that would be a step up, but at four times the cost, it's not my top priority in gear needs right now.

That would be a digital mixer.


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## Guitar101

Perhaps Fractal realize that there are people like me out there that don't need hundreds of sounds and digital amps to pick from. Give me a few good ones that I'll use and I'm good to go. Of course I'd expect to pay much less and I still wouldn't pay anywhere near $1000 if that's what their thinking.


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## Milkman

Guitar101 said:


> Perhaps Fractal realize that there are people like me out there that don't need hundreds of sounds and digital amps to pick from. Give me a few good ones that I'll use and I'm good to go. Of course I'd expect to pay much less and I still wouldn't pay anywhere near $1000 if that's what their thinking.



I would be happy with far fewer patches than I have on my HD500X, but the dual amp capability make a big difference in sound to my ears.

10 or 20 good patches is enough for me.

At least, the patches that I use that feature dual amps and cabs sound much richer and more lush than those that don't.


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## Guest

It's very early to say and details are light but I think neither of you will be happy with the AX8.

It'll only do one amp instance at a time so that kills it for Milkman wanting to do two amps at once.

And aggressive pricing...if I had to guess...is probably going to be around $1000. Maybe a little less, but not much less, and more possibly a little more. Figure it's priced around what a TC Electronic G-System is priced. That's a total guess though, I know as much as everyone else does about it at this point. So that kills it for Guitar101.


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## Milkman

$1000 is not unreasonable at all. If it sounds great I may well try one.

After all, I seldom use two amps with a conventional rig. It's just that the two amp patches I have in my Pod sound pretty big compared to the others in my opinion.

Sorry about the piss up. I was being a bit of a dick.

Dealing with a few.....things.


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## Guest

Milkman said:


> Sorry about the piss up. I was being a bit of a dick.


Me too. Sorry about escalating it. You're not a dick, and I know that, and shouldn't have poked at you like that.

When you run dual amp patches do you pan them? I suspect the AX8 will have a stereo cabinet block, so you can run one AMP -> CAB and the CAB can have different IRs in the stereo block panned slightly left and right. That gives you this huge sound that's really awesome in stereo. Like this: https://soundcloud.com/iaresee/kiss-on

And there's been no details on what effects will be like -- if you're able to route stereo effects post-CAB block to make things bigger and more stereo like you can do in the full on AxeFx. Lotta unknowns!


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## Destropiate

Milkman said:


> Sorry about the piss up. I was being a bit of a dick.
> 
> Dealing with a few.....things.





iaresee said:


> Me too. Sorry about escalating it. You're not a dick, and I know that, and shouldn't have poked at you like that.


Umm...... I think you guys are breaking the internet. When a disagreement arises in a public forum it is standard procedure to let it totally derail the thread to the point that it lacks any valuable information. At that point it devolves into name calling and insults about one or the others mother, penis size and/or sexuality. Usually it only takes about a page or two. 

Seriously though, I don't think I've ever seen a proper guitar forum apology. Only in Canada eh?

On point though I really have to spend some time with one of these Fractal units. At first I didn't believe the hype but they seem to have stood the test of time. Would be super convenient to lug just a laptop case and a few cables to the practice space every week. The only modeling gear I have is the PODxt and its pretty underwhelming IMO. Things have probably come a long way since that was released though.


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## Milkman

Destropiate said:


> Umm...... I think you guys are breaking the internet. When a disagreement arises in a public forum it is standard procedure to let it totally derail the thread to the point that it lacks any valuable information. At that point it devolves into name calling and insults about one or the others mother, penis size and/or sexuality. Usually it only takes about a page or two.
> 
> Seriously though, I don't think I've ever seen a proper guitar forum apology. Only in Canada eh?
> 
> On point though I really have to spend some time with one of these Fractal units. At first I didn't believe the hype but they seem to have stood the test of time. Would be super convenient to lug just a laptop case and a few cables to the practice space every week. The only modeling gear I have is the PODxt and its pretty underwhelming IMO. Things have probably come a long way since that was released though.


Watch my posts. You'll see apologies from time to time.

I can be a bit crusty and have a tendency to push and belabour points from time to time.

But I like this site and when I sense that I've stepped out of bounds, I prefer to admit it and move on.


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## jbealsmusic

Well... 8 months later, still no more info on the unit, aside from it is going to be released sometime in the "Fall" (which would be more or less now, so soon at least). Still no info on price or distribution.

But, Mark Day released a little music video where he used the AX8.
[video=youtube;wBTYIl6xnb0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=23&amp;v=wBTYIl6xnb0[/video]

I'd be interested in trying one out, but the price point is the big question.


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## Guest

They have units they're showing off at The Amp Show in L.A. this weekend. Lots of pictures and videos popping up of the unit now. You can check out videos of Cooper Carter, Andy Wood (I could listen to Andy play for hours and hours and hours...just an amazing player and a super nice guy) and Javier Reyes playing through one here: https://www.facebook.com/fractalaudio -- there's also a give-away going on if you happen to be at the show. You can walk home with home if you're at the show and lucky.

There's also a great thread from long-time Fractal user Scott Burrows happening on the Fractal board where he's posting his own videos and pictures: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/lounge/104972-heading-amp-show.html

This thread is long-running but also has some interesting information in it: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/104420-ready-amp-show.html

See this post: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/104420-ready-amp-show-10.html#post1256041

We know how it sounds. It sounds like the Axe-Fx II -- it runs the same code, just doesn't support as many blocks at once as the AFII.

How will it be priced???? Only time will tell!


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## Guest

*USD$1399*

Waiting list opens next week!

See: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/105021-ax-8-price.html

And more details from here:



> Same grid as Axe-Fx II
> 512 user cab slots, 512 preset slots.
> Same factory amps and cabs as Axe-Fx II.
> Same high-quality, low-noise design as Axe-Fx II XL+. True differential I/O to the converters, not the single-ended stuff used in consumer-grade gear.
> Silent Switch technology from the MFC-101 Mark III.
> Humbuster I/Os.
> Most importantly it has Quantum and the "Fractal Sound".


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## Budda

Ian, how many effects can it run at once with the amp sim?


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## Guest

Budda said:


> Ian, how many effects can it run at once with the amp sim?


Fractal guys were telling me 9-ish additional depending on what they were, what you were doing with them.

I'll have one soon. Can probably answer more questions in a week or so.


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## Budda

Send it my way when you're good and ready 

I think the most I run at once is 4? Dirt, boost, delay and reverb. I can't afford one, don't technically need one, but damn I want one. That or the FX8.


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## Guest

Waitlist is OPEN!

http://www.fractalaudio.com/ax8-amp-modeler-multi-effects.php


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## Guest

[video=youtube;ANgcnQe1LOY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANgcnQe1LOY[/video]


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## Guest

^My mind is completely blown up.


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## Guitar101

Player99 said:


> ^My mind is completely blown up.


Would that be covered under the Fractal Warranty?


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## 335Bob

I have the FX8 and it's really working out well for me. So, I am seriously considering getting the AX8 to have an all in one solution for easy travel to gigs and rehearsals when I don't feel like lugging an amp along.


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## Milkman

So, around $1800 CAD + taxes.

Sadly I can't justify that when I consider the benefits. If I was in the camp that really felt that the tones were that much better than other more affordable modelers I might consider it, but I guess I just can't see the Emporer's amazing new clothes.


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## traynor_garnet

Argh, turn off the freakin effects!!!! Why does every demo completely saturate the amp models in a wash of verb, delay, etc?

It sounds good and most of the players are pretty amazing, but I don't hear anything leaps and bounds beyond what already exists. The only thing that really caught my ear was the steel player.

I think Milkman and I are on the same page.

TG


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## Guest

Player99 said:


> ^My mind is completely blown up.


By the playing, not the effects. Those guys are good.


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## ONFLOOR AUDIO

I could not agree with you more !!QUOTE=traynor_garnet;652332]Argh, turn off the freakin effects!!!! Why does every demo completely saturate the amp models in a wash of verb, delay, etc?

It sounds good and most of the players are pretty amazing, but I don't hear anything leaps and bounds beyond what already exists. The only thing that really caught my ear was the steel player.

I think Milkman and I are on the same page.













TG[/QUOTE]


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## jbealsmusic

traynor_garnet said:


> Argh, turn off the freakin effects!!!! Why does every demo completely saturate the amp models in a wash of verb, delay, etc?
> 
> It sounds good and most of the players are pretty amazing, but I don't hear anything leaps and bounds beyond what already exists. The only thing that really caught my ear was the steel player.
> 
> I think Milkman and I are on the same page.
> 
> TG


To be fair, there isn't anything new to hear from AX8. If you're familiar with the Axe II, then you know what the AX8 will sound like because it uses all the same models.


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## Guest




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## exhausted

Westerberg!!!!!!


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## pat6969

Yes!! I got on the waitlist early!! An AxeFX on the floor!! Hard to beat it. Hopefully won't have to wait 6 months!!


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## Robboman

pat6969 said:


> Yes!! I got on the waitlist early!! An AxeFX on the floor!! Hard to beat it. Hopefully won't have to wait 6 months!!


Me too!

Call me fanboy, but I find their products excellent and their growth story ever more fascinating as it continues to play out.

When the first Axe-FX came out, it was a complete unknown that did essentially the same thing L6 did, at 4 or 5 times higher price. It was a rack, not a floor-based box even though floor was the most popular form. The 'company' was one guy who did everything himself. 

Despite these almost ridiculous hurdles and to everyone's surprise.. the box SOLD! And sold... and sold in droves. Supply couldn't keep up, waitlists happened. Known touring artists started using them. All from word of mouth. When the Axe-FX II came around it was still very expensive, same rack format. Despite bigger staff and supply chain they STILL couldn't take people's money fast enough. Long waitlists. They advertised in guitar mags and many of the worlds biggest name bands started using it, from U2 to Metallica.

To call it a hit would be understating. Fractal made a disruptive, worldwide impact on the guitar community. All from a rack box that cost 4 or 5 times more than L6 boxes which basically do the same thing. 

It's just a really, really cool story.  And it's far from over... 

When you think about it, there's only one thing that could have possibly been the reason for this success so far. GREAT sound. Always had it, and keeps getting even better. Sound (and feel) trumps EVERYTHING, it's more important than features, form... even price, evidently for many. 

The question has been, is it 'worth it' when you could get something from L6 that sounds 'almost as good'. Totally valid argument. Especially when it's 4 or 5 times the price. Is it 4 or 5 times better sounding??? 

This is where AX8 is such a big deal. That same great sound and feel in the floor-based box everyone wanted from the beginning. At less than HALF the price of an Axe-FX II with MFC foot controller combo. 

At the same time L6 releases the Helix, having realized they missed the boat in the high-end category so far. This is the first time Fractal and L6 have gone head to head in direct competition, with similar product at similar price point, even launching at the same time. 

The difference is.. guitarists mindsets are used to Fractal being expensive and L6 being cheap. The latest Fractal looks like a bargain while the latest L6 box looks expensive (for L6). 

May the better box win. Or maybe they'll both win. Guitarists win no matter what!


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## Robboman

Disclaimer, since I just wrote a whole essay above: 

I bought the Axe-FX Ultra in 2008, MFC when it first came out, Axe-FX II when it first came out, and FX8 when it first came out. I currently still own the Axe-FX II and the FX8, but I'm buying the AX8 too.. as soon as it comes out. 

For the record, I'm not currently crazy. I will probably sell the Axe-FX II and the FX8 and just keep only AX8, but initially I'll own all three boxes. Life is too short to spend even a minute living without Fractal products. 

Before all that I owned L6 products... and a whole bunch more amps and pedals.


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## Dorian2

Great sounding unit from what I've heard, but it isn't at the price point I'm comfortable with. I wasn't familiar with the Fractal brand at all, so for me this is all quite new and refreshing. Thanks to all for some good posts and such.


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## Guest

So my AX8 arrived on Sunday. An early Christmas gift Fractal-claus!

It's pretty amazing. From what I wrote here:

From unboxing to playing it was 5 minutes tops. If you know the Axe-Fx II or the FX8 this thing is super comfortable to get going with. Flipped through presets for an hour with that big, dumb grin on my face I get when I play my Axe-Fx II rig.

The form factor is superb. I knew it was going to be nice and compact, but I didn't appreciate how much is packed in to this thing until I had it my hands. Everything is executed perfectly on this unit. There are no corners cut here. No compromises. I am _totally_ smitten with all this Fractal power in such a compact unit.

The hardest decisions in my life are now going to be whether I take the "big rig" or the "little rig" out of the house with me when I gig.

Good times, indeed.​


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## Budda

Even with my gigging rig, the fractal stuff holds appeal: it's the other amps I want, with one price tag attached not 5. One day...


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## Guest

Budda said:


> Even with my gigging rig, the fractal stuff holds appeal: it's the other amps I want, with one price tag attached not 5. One day...


The AX8 is $1500. All you need is an expression pedal or two and you're rockin' with it. 200+ amp models and they sound glorious.

I was working with a tone match this dude Singtall did of EVH's VH1 tones. So good. Less bass in the stems from Eddy's guitars than you'd expect.


__
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fiaresee%2Fsingtall-valen-halen-i-test-1

Oh, I stumbled across this Fryette tone today that's just total hair metal. Sizzle crunch chug awesome.


__
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fiaresee%2Fsimeons-fryette-d60-m


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## Moosehead

So are these available yet or still on the wait list? Is the wait list huge? (months)


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## Guest

Moosehead said:


> So are these available yet or still on the wait list? Is the wait list huge? (months)


They're still working through the waitlist.


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## pat6969

Moosehead said:


> So are these available yet or still on the wait list? Is the wait list huge? (months)


Yes and yes!


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## Budda

Ian, its $1500 that could be band expenses. I have the gear, all I need is a new backup and I am "good". This doesn't mean I won't buy more gear, but a flight to and from Europe is much higher on the list


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## GuitarsCanada

will get me one of these some day, we will let the dust settle first. no hurry


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## Milkman

I may upgrade to one of these or a Line 6 Helix but I'm in no rush. I'm still enjoying the tones I have in my HD500X.

Maybe in a year or so they'll start coming up used for a reasonable price.


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## jbealsmusic

Milkman said:


> I may upgrade to one of these or a Line 6 Helix but I'm in no rush. I'm still enjoying the tones I have in my HD500X.
> 
> Maybe in a year or so they'll start coming up used for a reasonable price.


That's what I'm waiting for... Might find good deals on Helix, but Fractal's stuff has a way of staying more expensive than it should on the used market.


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## Guest

jbealsmusic said:


> That's what I'm waiting for... Helix might find good deals on Helix, but Fractal's stuff has a way of staying more expensive than it should on the used market.


Maybe s/than it should/than I wish it would/ as the used gear market is the very definition of a perfect supply and demand experiment.


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## jbealsmusic

iaresee said:


> Maybe s/than it should/than I wish it would/ as the used gear market is the very definition of a perfect supply and demand experiment.


I understand that's how many people see it, but I respectfully disagree when it comes to products that are still in production. If I buy anything, I'll either buy it new or get it used for a good deal. I politely ignore people who ask for 90%+ value for a current used product. Good for them if they find people willing to pay that, but it's just craziness to me.


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## pat6969

jbealsmusic said:


> That's what I'm waiting for... Might find good deals on Helix, but Fractal's stuff has a way of staying more expensive than it should on the used market.


That's only because they limit quantities. I got on the AX8 list day 1 and I bet I don't get one until spring, the FX8 isn't available, at least last time I checked, and that came out a year ago. Simple supply and demand.


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## plato67

Can you turn off the amp/cab sims if you want to use this as an fx unit sometimes?


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## Guest

plato67 said:


> Can you turn off the amp/cab sims if you want to use this as an fx unit sometimes?


Yes. You can control this per-preset.


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## metallica86

For all of you with Ax8, can I see your setup ? which pedal you use with, PA or amp etc...


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## plato67

iaresee said:


> Yes. You can control this per-preset.


My names on the list. It's a big chunk 'o change, but I'm getting older and would like to carry less to gigs. Still would like the option to play through I tube amp if I wanted and have effects on tap.


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## Guest

metallica86 said:


> For all of you with Ax8, can I see your setup ? which pedal you use with, PA or amp etc...


My AX8 rig is light and portable: AX8, EV1 -- done.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/721179219363909635
I run straight to FOH and if I really need to I'll also use an EV ELX112P behind me.



plato67 said:


> My names on the list. It's a big chunk 'o change, but I'm getting older and would like to carry less to gigs. Still would like the option to play through I tube amp if I wanted and have effects on tap.


See above. That's what I take the gigs when I use my AX8 rig. A single, Mono Kontroller bag holds the AX8 and an EV1 and all my cables and bits and pieces. I have a Mono Dual bag for my electric guitars. Acoustic is still in a hard case if it's an acoustic gig. Getting in and out has never been faster!


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## metallica86

that bag is not on sale in canada, i think I will run to Walmart and find a cheap back pack to fit the Ax8 :d


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## hollowbody

metallica86 said:


> that bag is not on sale in canada, i think I will run to Walmart and find a cheap back pack to fit the Ax8 :d


L&M carries Mono. They can order one in for you.


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## Guest

metallica86 said:


> that bag is not on sale in canada, i think I will run to Walmart and find a cheap back pack to fit the Ax8 :d


If you're looking for inexpensive, this Gator bag will hold the AX8 and an EV1: Amazon.com: Gator GK-2110 Gig Bag for Micro Controllers (22.5" x 11.5" x 4"): Musical Instruments


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## metallica86

iaresee said:


> If you're looking for inexpensive, this Gator bag will hold the AX8 and an EV1: Amazon.com: Gator GK-2110 Gig Bag for Micro Controllers (22.5" x 11.5" x 4"): Musical Instruments


thanks brother ! that's all I need


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## EagleDo

Where can you buy an axe8 in Canada?


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## Guest

EagleDo said:


> Where can you buy an axe8 in Canada?


Fractal Audio Systems Axe-Fx II Preamp FX Processor - AX8 Amp Modeler Multi-FX pedalboard - MFC-101 MIDI Foot Controller - FX8 Multieffects Pedalboard - Cab-Lab and more -- you can only buy direct.


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## pat6969

iaresee said:


> Fractal Audio Systems Axe-Fx II Preamp FX Processor - AX8 Amp Modeler Multi-FX pedalboard - MFC-101 MIDI Foot Controller - FX8 Multieffects Pedalboard - Cab-Lab and more -- you can only buy direct.


How are you dealing with the switching lag? Serious question here. I've been working with this thing for a month and have a killer tone in the CA Triptik, it's a higher gain patch so impossible to clean up with the guitar volume. I do, however, want to be able to switch from clean to dirty without the lag. Playing in a 3 piece is were the lag shines, I'm hoping to come up with something seamless. Have you figured anything out or am I doomed? I read about the controllers but I doubt I'll get a clean tone from the Triptik by backing the gain down, maybe close to .5 or 1 but then the volume drops out significantly. Can you set 2 parameter changes with one expression pedal? Like dial gain back to 1 and increase level to match the original level, all with the sweep of the pedal?

Found this, will it work in the AX8?

_*You can control multiple parameters to different values using just one Scene Controller.

For example, you can morph an amp to two completely different gain settings.

Say you want to take an amp from clean w/ high Master Volume to distorted with medium Master Volume while retaining the wanted levels between them.

First, set Scene1 Controller to Scene 1 = 0%, Scene 2 = 100%

Next, determine the Input Drive, Master volume, Level setting you want to go to and from. Using the X/Y of the amp blocks is probably the fastest way so you can A/B. 
In this case say we want to go from drive 2.5, master 10, level -6db to drive 6, master 5, level -12db.


Then, attach the Scene 1 Controller to the Input Drive. Set its min to 2.5 and its max 6. On the master do the same but set its min 10 and max 5. Lastly, set the level setting min to -6db and Max to -12db.
Now when you switch between Scene 1 and Scene 2, all the parameters will switch at once.

How is this different from X/Y you ask?

Well, it is completely smooth with no drop out at all.

But wait, there is more...

We also have a dampening parameter we can use the the Modifier menu so we can use that to slow down the process and morph from one scene to the next. Pretty cool in you ask me 

Using the dampening parameter works for other things like delay and reverb where you may not want a sudden shift but occur more gradually.


Have fun!*_


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## Guest

Post a preset. I can give you more specific advice if I've got your preset.

I'm pretty good at staying on one preset for s song and just using scenes to change things up.

For situations where I do have to cover a preset change some reverb or delay with spillover can be a great cover.


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## pat6969

iaresee said:


> Post a preset. I can give you more specific advice if I've got your preset.
> 
> I'm pretty good at staying on one preset for s song and just using scenes to change things up.
> 
> For situations where I do have to cover a preset change some reverb or delay with spillover can be a great cover.


Sorry, I didn't see you replied to my post. I posed the question over at Fractal as well and found some possible solutions. Thanks.


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## doriangrey

Thread revival =)

I've been seriously looking at the Ax8 - I'm getting tired of pedal boards, power supplies, amp heads and cabs and would love to go with something simpler. My buddy has a Kemper powerhead that I tried and it sounded great but at close to $3,800 CDN with the foot controller I can't afford it. The Ax8 retails for less than 1/2 the price of the Kemper at about $1,700 CDN and I don't need a separate foot controller with the all-in-one Ax8 floor package.

I am also wondering how people are using the Ax8 - are people using it with a power amp and a guitar cab or straight into a powered speaker. If going straight into a powered speaker then what kind of speaker are you using? Some of the powered speakers are so expensive that the total price is getting up close to the Kemper, which I could use with guitar cabinets that I already have. 

Anyhow, though I would see if there are any more Ax8 updates and/or new users around here. Curious to learn more about this product =)


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## Budda

Honestly you will get way more info on the fractal forums. I'd start there.


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## jbealsmusic

doriangrey said:


> I am also wondering how people are using the Ax8 - are people using it with a power amp and a guitar cab or straight into a powered speaker. If going straight into a powered speaker then what kind of speaker are you using? Some of the powered speakers are so expensive that the total price is getting up close to the Kemper, which I could use with guitar cabinets that I already have.
> 
> Anyhow, though I would see if there are any more Ax8 updates and/or new users around here. Curious to learn more about this product =)


I have an AX8 and Helix. Wrote a comparison thread here:
Helix vs AX8 Review/Comparison

I no longer do any gigging so I just play at home through headphones and studio monitors (mostly headphones now since I have a newborn in the house). I played for years with a direct to FOH rig and a powered PA speaker for self monitoring (or just used the house monitors). The Alto stuff is good bang for the buck, but don't expect to use it as a back line amp if you're playing against a loud drummer or cranked tube amp on the other side of the stage.

I would ask how you would be most comfortable using it. Do you have any experience playing direct/full-range rigs? It is a pretty drastic change if you're used to standing next to an amp and cab.


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## doriangrey

Well written comparison!

I would like to use the Ax8 at home and also at weekly jam sessions, although I'm skeptical about using it in band situations unless I buy a power amp or expensive FR speaker. From what you’ve said about the Alto speakers I’m concerned that I wouldn’t be satisfied with that setup (our drummer is pretty loud  but a better FR speaker setup is expensive. If I have to buy an expensive FR speaker then the cost is rising up towards the Kemper, which I can use with cabinets that I already own...but then I would have to buy a foot pedal with the kemper…then I go back to the Ax8 because it is less expensive and is in floorboard form…it’s a circular debate in my head =(

I've no experience whatsoever in playing direct/full range rigs – I’ve always used amps and pedals. I play weekly in a band and we play rock – classic to hard rock – and I like the thump of my 100 watt Legacy head and 2x12 cabinets so part of what I'm wondering is if it’s possible to get close to that amp ‘feel’ with the AX8.

I played my friend’s Kemper through my guitar cabinet and it was impressive – it thumped like a real amp but that was probably due to the speaker cab that it was pumping through. The Kemper actually has a guitar cab output but I don’t think the Ax8 has that so I am guessing that the Ax8 would have to be used with a power amp to be able to thump it through a guitar cab.

With that said, I’ve also read that using something like an Ax8 or Axe-fx in that application is not ideal and that they are better utilized with a FR speaker setup.

It’s all a bit confusing and these high end modelers are way too expensive to go and buy just so I can try them out and experiment, which is why I’m trying to learn as much as I can about them from people who actually use them =)



jbealsmusic said:


> I have an AX8 and Helix. Wrote a comparison thread here:
> 
> Helix vs AX8 Review/Comparison
> 
> I no longer do any gigging so I just play at home through headphones and studio monitors (mostly headphones now since I have a newborn in the house). I played for years with a direct to FOH rig and a powered PA speaker for self monitoring (or just used the house monitors). The Alto stuff is good bang for the buck, but don't expect to use it as a back line amp if you're playing against a loud drummer or cranked tube amp on the other side of the stage.
> 
> I would ask how you would be most comfortable using it. Do you have any experience playing direct/full-range rigs? It is a pretty drastic change if you're used to standing next to an amp and cab.


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## Cups

The ax-8 just models amps so you can use your own cab if you choose. You'd just need a power amp. You'd need FRFR if you would experiment with cabinet simulations. 
I have a Boss GP-10 which models acoustics and synths so FRFR is really needed.


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## Budda

You can buy an inexpensive power amp and use your cabs. It *might* sound better (or more sterile  ) with an FR setup, but I highy doubt it sounds bad pushing guitar gear.


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## jbealsmusic

doriangrey said:


> I would like to use the Ax8 at home and also at weekly jam sessions, although I'm skeptical about using it in band situations unless I buy a power amp or expensive FR speaker.


If you want to stay the more traditional route, you don't necessarily need to buy a new power amp. If you already have an amp with an FX Loop, you can just plug the AX8 straight into that. Voila! Free power amp.



> I like the thump of my 100 watt Legacy head and 2x12 cabinets so part of what I'm wondering is if it’s possible to get close to that amp ‘feel’ with the AX8.


It might take some time to get used to the different 'feel' of a direct sound with cab IRs, so if I were you, I'd start off with a power amp (or fx-return) into a real cab. I would say the above is more than possible. It is very likely. In fact, there are a handful of Carvin Legacy models in the AX8 that I bet if you A/B'd them with your Legacy through the same power amp and cab in a blind test, you probably couldn't tell the difference. Are you selling your Legacy to pay for the AX8? If not, just plug your AX8 into the fx-return on your Legacy. If you're brave, use it in 4CM with your Legacy to experiment with the different preamp models on the AX8, while still having access to your good ol' Legacy.



> With that said, I’ve also read that using something like an Ax8 or Axe-fx in that application is not ideal and that they are better utilized with a FR speaker setup.


Maybe. If I had to point to one thing that has a drastic impact on guitar tone, it is the speaker. So sure, going through a traditional cab does limit your freedom in terms of tone. But if you already love the sound of the cab you use, who cares.

_Fun side note for people who want to experiment their guitar sound. Changing the speaker in your cab is the easiest mod to do, and in most cases it will have a far more significant tonal impact than most of the more common mods people attempt to change their tone without buying whole new products. Back on topic..._​
The benefits of FRFR are generally most apparent when you use effects-heavy sounds or need a very wide variety of tones, like one would in a corporate cover band or something like that. If you mostly use a handful of more traditional sounds, going through a traditional amp/cab isn't going to hurt you one bit.

I generally put it this way. Going FRFR leaves you with a final product that sounds like a recorded guitar coming through an FRFR speaker. It 'feels' like you're playing guitar and your amp is mic'd up in the next room, but you're hearing the mic'd guitar through the FRFR. Same as if you turn your amp way down on stage and mic it, then send that to the stage monitors. Using it with an amp and cab is just like playing through any amp and cab. It will be just as thumpy, punchy, insert another tonal synonym here.



Cups said:


> The ax-8 just models amps so you can use your own cab if you choose. You'd just need a power amp. You'd need FRFR if you would experiment with cabinet simulations.
> I have a Boss GP-10 which models acoustics and synths so FRFR is really needed.


The AX8 also has synths and other effects that benefit from full FRFR if you want to use them. You can also use it for acoustic modeling if you get (or create) some acoustic IRs.


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## hollowbody

doriangrey said:


> Thread revival =)
> 
> I've been seriously looking at the Ax8 - I'm getting tired of pedal boards, power supplies, amp heads and cabs and would love to go with something simpler. My buddy has a Kemper powerhead that I tried and it sounded great but at close to $3,800 CDN with the foot controller I can't afford it. The Ax8 retails for less than 1/2 the price of the Kemper at about $1,700 CDN and I don't need a separate foot controller with the all-in-one Ax8 floor package.
> 
> I am also wondering how people are using the Ax8 - are people using it with a power amp and a guitar cab or straight into a powered speaker. If going straight into a powered speaker then what kind of speaker are you using? Some of the powered speakers are so expensive that the total price is getting up close to the Kemper, which I could use with guitar cabinets that I already have.
> 
> Anyhow, though I would see if there are any more Ax8 updates and/or new users around here. Curious to learn more about this product =)


FYI, the $1,000 FRFR speakers you see are not your only option. They're certainly sexy as all hell and have lots of bells and whistles, but if you want to just amplify your modeler with a full-range speaker, look for some used keyboard amps. They're full range and pretty flat as well. I have an old Yorkville 100KB 3 channel keyboard amp that I use when I really want to have an amp on-stage with me instead of going through the monitors. Something like that is $200-300 used. Also, small powered PA cabs will work great, too. Find an E10P used for $400-450.

IMHO, the new batch of FRFR speakers that cater to the modeling crowd are overpriced and not worth it. You can get the same with a keyboard amp or monitor, chances are you might already have one, AND you can use them for other applications, too.


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## doriangrey

Lots of good info - thank you for taking the time! I think your suggestion of using the modeler in the FX return of the Legacy and using my cabs would be a good place to start. Something like the Alto 112 FR speaker would make more sense at home at lower volumes where I wouldn't be playing beside a heavy hitting drummer.
I wish I could rent an Ax8 and try it with my rig and at home.
One more question if you're playing the Ax8 at home at low volumes how are you using it? Through studio monitors like krk rokits or a FR speaker?



jbealsmusic said:


> If you want to stay the more traditional route, you don't necessarily need to buy a new power amp. If you already have an amp with an FX Loop, you can just plug the AX8 straight into that. Voila! Free power amp.
> 
> It might take some time to get used to the different 'feel' of a direct sound with cab IRs, so if I were you, I'd start off with a power amp (or fx-return) into a real cab. I would say the above is more than possible. It is very likely. In fact, there are a handful of Carvin Legacy models in the AX8 that I bet if you A/B'd them with your Legacy through the same power amp and cab in a blind test, you probably couldn't tell the difference. Are you selling your Legacy to pay for the AX8? If not, just plug your AX8 into the fx-return on your Legacy. If you're brave, use it in 4CM with your Legacy to experiment with the different preamp models on the AX8, while still having access to your good ol' Legacy.
> 
> Maybe. If I had to point to one thing that has a drastic impact on guitar tone, it is the speaker. So sure, going through a traditional cab does limit your freedom in terms of tone. But if you already love the sound of the cab you use, who cares.
> 
> _Fun side note for people who want to experiment their guitar sound. Changing the speaker in your cab is the easiest mod to do, and in most cases it will have a far more significant tonal impact than most of the more common mods people attempt to change their tone without buying whole new products. Back on topic..._​
> The benefits of FRFR are generally most apparent when you use effects-heavy sounds or need a very wide variety of tones, like one would in a corporate cover band or something like that. If you mostly use a handful of more traditional sounds, going through a traditional amp/cab isn't going to hurt you one bit.
> 
> I generally put it this way. Going FRFR leaves you with a final product that sounds like a recorded guitar coming through an FRFR speaker. It 'feels' like you're playing guitar and your amp is mic'd up in the next room, but you're hearing the mic'd guitar through the FRFR. Same as if you turn your amp way down on stage and mic it, then send that to the stage monitors. Using it with an amp and cab is just like playing through any amp and cab. It will be just as thumpy, punchy, insert another tonal synonym here.
> 
> The AX8 also has synths and other effects that benefit from full FRFR if you want to use them. You can also use it for acoustic modeling if you get (or create) some acoustic IRs.


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## jbealsmusic

doriangrey said:


> Lots of good info - thank you for taking the time!


If I have the time, I'm always happy to give it!



> I wish I could rent an Ax8 and try it with my rig and at home.


If you get on the Fractal forums and ask around, you might find someone near you who might let you do that. Even ask to play someone's Axe-fx II. It's pretty much the same thing sound wise.



> One more question if you're playing the Ax8 at home at low volumes how are you using it? Through studio monitors like krk rokits or a FR speaker?


FRFR = Full Range Flat Response, which is what studio monitors are supposed to be. So, both? lol

I use them with studio monitors or headphones. When I was gigging, I would use the house PA and bring my own powered monitor (like an Alto) to monitor myself if needed (depending on the venue and sound guy).


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## Robboman

Longtime Fractal guy here... I use my AX8 live with my band into real guitar cab, and at home with cab IRs into studio monitors for direct recording. It's just a great sounding, flexible all around awesome piece of gear, you can't go wrong IMO. I've used it direct FRFR, with real cabs AND into the frontend of real amps as a pedalboard replacement. If you know what you're doing it can service all these scenarios, astonishingly well.

I'll second the opinion that cab sim > FRFR will always sound different than a real guitar cab, after all it's the sound of a close mic on a speaker cone playing back through a FR speaker. I won't say it's better or worse, that's subjective. But the fact that it's different is... well... fact. If you are used to real guitar cabs, I'd suggest keeping them. 

I've powered my guitar cabs with the tube output of my amp head (AX8 amp model into head fx return) as well as solid-state power (Matrix amp and the loop return of my SS Quilter Toneblock 201). It can work well in any of these setups, but I do end up EQing differently with the tube head, to compensate for the coloration it supplies compared to the relatively flat SS power.

Here's a shot of a gig a few weeks ago.. I'm the guy playing bass in front of the AX8 on the floor. (I switch between guitar and bass in this trio)


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## High/Deaf

Excellent write-up of real-world use. Thanks, @Robboman !


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## traynor_garnet

Just a heads up the Line6 just announced a Helix plug in: $399 US. It does everything the Helix does but in a plugin format.

TG


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## hollowbody

traynor_garnet said:


> Just a heads up the Line6 just announced a Helix plug in: $399 US. It does everything the Helix does but in a plugin format.
> 
> TG


$99 if you already own a Helix, which I happen to 

I think I'll end up buying it. That way I can leave the Helix in it's case at home and still plug-in to the computer and edit my patches, etc. without having my gear all over the living room floor! #HappyWifeHappyLife


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## doriangrey

$399 is expensive for a plugin - that is considerably higher than the competitors (e.g. Guitar Rig is $199, Amplitube 4 is $149 and Overloud TH3 is $199). 

Also, if someone already has a Helix and can record direct with it then why would they need to buy a $99 VST plugin to do what their hardware already does... or am I missing something here... 



traynor_garnet said:


> Just a heads up the Line6 just announced a Helix plug in: $399 US. It does everything the Helix does but in a plugin format.
> 
> TG


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## hollowbody

doriangrey said:


> $399 is expensive for a plugin - that is considerably higher than the competitors (e.g. Guitar Rig is $199, Amplitube 4 is $149 and Overloud TH3 is $199).
> 
> Also, if someone already has a Helix and can record direct with it then why would they need to buy a $99 VST plugin to do what their hardware already does... or am I missing something here...


I haven't used Amplitude or Guitar Rig in a loooooong time, so I can't speak to how they sound/work, but the Helix software is incredible. I've been using my Helix exclusively for about 4 months and every time I turn it on, I'm blown away by a) how it sounds, and b) what I can do with it.

Regarding the plugin for hardware owners, I would totally buy it. My live rig is damned heavy and my wife and I live in a 1 bedroom apartment. I've cut down on guitar gear as much as possible already, but having a large pedalboard in the middle of the living room floor isn't ideal. With the software, I'd be able to create and fine-tune my patches at my desktop without having to pull out the He-Man pedalboard rig. Then I can USB the playlist/presets over to the board when I need them. If I decide at the show that something doesn't sound great and I make changes, I can then send those changes back to the plugin version and go from there. Might not make sense of others who have dedicated music spaces, but for me, it would save a lot of time and effort hacing to unpack my gear and then pack it away when I'm done.


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## doriangrey

I've heard good things about the Helix - but I am somewhat nervous about spending that much money on a Line 6 product. Plus the Helix is about $500 more than the Ax8. =o/


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## hollowbody

doriangrey said:


> I've heard good things about the Helix - but I am somewhat nervous about spending that much money on a Line 6 product. Plus the Helix is about $500 more than the Ax8. =o/


Check the specs and determine if it's worth the extra coin for yourself. Colour screen and arguably sexier design, more I/O (SPDIF in and out, AESBU, Mic input, AUX input, etc., 4 FX Loops, etc), built-in expression pedal, etc. It's a breeze to create patches, and the I/O alone makes it a standout for me. I can do so much with the Helix that I couldn't even come close to doing with the AX8. I'm really glad I didn't end up buying the AX8 when I was looking at one.

Sonically, I haven't had a chance to compare, but everything I've read says that at this level, whether it's Fractal, Kemper or Helix, they're all so good that you're basically choosing based on preferences and ergonomics and, for me, the ergonomics on the Helix won.


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## jbealsmusic

hollowbody said:


> Check the specs and determine if it's worth the extra coin for yourself. Colour screen and arguably sexier design, more I/O (SPDIF in and out, AESBU, Mic input, AUX input, etc., 4 FX Loops, etc), built-in expression pedal, etc. It's a breeze to create patches, and the I/O alone makes it a standout for me. I can do so much with the Helix that I couldn't even come close to doing with the AX8. I'm really glad I didn't end up buying the AX8 when I was looking at one.
> 
> Sonically, I haven't had a chance to compare, but everything I've read says that at this level, whether it's Fractal, Kemper or Helix, they're all so good that you're basically choosing based on preferences and ergonomics and, for me, the ergonomics on the Helix won.


Came in to basically say the same thing. I have both Helix and AX8 and would agree with your last statement. Pick the one that has the features you want/need, they all sound pretty damn good. With user IRs, Helix is as good as anything else, or at least close enough that it doesn't really matter. YMMV


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