# French Language Law Question



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Due to the pandemic I am required to work with clients in Quebec. We are being told that if I we respond to their request (which was in French) in English, that we are violating Quebec language laws. I'm not in Quebec although my company does have an office there who they would normally deal with.

Is that correct?

I'm using google translate to translate their email but I am very leery of translating my response as I would have no idea how it translated.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I used to work in HR. I don't know what the correct answer to this is, but it brings up a very interesting labour law question. If you know an employment lawyer, it would be a really interesting thing to ask them and see what they say. I don't know what your line of work is, but my gut is telling me if you're not government they can't force you to adhere to Quebec's laws. Again, just what I'm thinking.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I don't work for the government.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

The internet does seem to say they have a right to do their job in French I just don't know if that means that everyone in the world needs to communicate with them in French or just their Quebec employer.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

That's why it's an interesting employment law question. If your company had an office in Russia, would you be required to correspond in Russian? It's one thing if you know that going into the job, but it's a little fishy for them to change it after the fact. 

There will be a lot of questions like this as we move forward with more work from home jobs.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I don't really care about the labour law aspect of this. I just want to know if my company or I would be violating Quebec language laws by responding to a client's French email in English.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Guncho said:


> I'm not in Quebec although my company does have an office there who they would normally deal with.
> 
> Is that correct?


If the question is in French, the answer is required to be in French. Ask anyone that works at bell Canada or other industries cross Canada. Plus you say you have offices in Québec !!! Wow... I personally would be insulted receiving an English only response. 

Canada is still a bilingual Country and Québec is a French province.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Frenchy99 said:


> If the question is in French, the answer is required to be in French. Ask anyone that works at bell Canada or other industries cross Canada. Plus you say you have offices in Québec !!! Wow... I personally would be insulted receiving an English only response.
> 
> Canada is still a bilingual Country and Québec is a French province.


Keep in mind that I'm dealing with clients, not customers.

Does the same still apply?

And the reason I'm not replying in French is not because I have something against it, I just don't speak French.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Clients and customers are a different thing?


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

JBFairthorne said:


> Clients and customers are a different thing?


They are yes. One is "the public", the other is not.

If some company in Quebec orders a photocopier from some company in Alberta, is the company from Alberta legally required to correspond in French? I wouldn't think so. That sounds ridiculous to me.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Guncho said:


> Keep in mind that I'm dealing with clients, not customers.
> 
> Does the same still apply?
> 
> And the reason I'm not replying in French is not because I have something against it, I just don't speak French.


Yours dealing with Quebec clients and have offices in Québec, yes , you are required to respond in French. Don't know what type of business you are in but services have to be offered in both language in Québec by law.

I understand your position in regards to not knowing French and being able to properly reply here. But please keep in mind that outside of Montréal, people here don't speak or understand English ! They are in the same opposite position as you.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The single biggest obstacle to Canada becoming a completely bilingual country is that many francophones ARE fairly fluent in English and will extend the courtesy of switching to English whenever they sense an anglophone is struggling with French, such that anglophones don't get enough practice in the other official language to become fluent. So, my advice is do a Google translate and the other party will likely switch over to English when they notice how clumsy your French is.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Guncho said:


> They are yes. One is "the public", the other is not.
> 
> If some company in Quebec orders a photocopier from some company in Alberta, is the company from Alberta legally required to correspond in French? I wouldn't think so. That sounds ridiculous to me.


Why would they order in Alberta ???

Most Co`s have offices in the greater Montréal or Québec city !?!

And why are you responding to the customer and not you Québec office ??? That does not make sense to me ???


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

mhammer said:


> The single biggest obstacle to Canada becoming a completely bilingual country is that many francophones ARE fairly fluent in English and will extend the courtesy of switching to English whenever they sense an anglophone is struggling with French, such that anglophones don't get enough practice in the other official language to become fluent. So, my advice is do a Google translate and the other party will likely switch over to English when they notice how clumsy your French is.


That is horrible advice, from a legal standpoint.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Frenchy99 said:


> Why would they order in Alberta ???
> 
> Most Co`s have offices in the greater Montréal or Québec city !?!
> 
> And why are you responding to the customer and not you Québec office ??? That does not make sense to me ???


Hypothetical.

As do we.

Layoffs due to pandemic.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Guncho said:


> As do we.
> 
> Layoffs due to pandemic.


Then I would direct the client to a Québec based Co that can provide adequate service.

Sorry, nothing against you, just bad business decision from you Co.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

I would simply explain to your clients that the pandemic has put you in an awkward position and you are simply unable to respond in French. Anyone who reads English (more than you think) will switch. You should also speak to your boss and note the being bilingual was/is not a job requirement but that you would be happy to switch/swap clients with a bilingual employee so that nobody is overburdened.

If this will be longer term, your employer should be covering the cost of French lessons if your are expected to learn it.
TG


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

mhammer said:


> The single biggest obstacle to Canada becoming a completely bilingual country is that many francophones ARE fairly fluent in English and will extend the courtesy of switching to English whenever they sense an anglophone is struggling with French, such that anglophones don't get enough practice in the other official language to become fluent. So, my advice is do a Google translate and the other party will likely switch over to English when they notice how clumsy your French is.


In my experience, that's much more the case in France than it is in Quebec.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

So why aren't their emails sent in both languages?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

keto said:


> That is horrible advice, from a legal standpoint.


Not necessarily. If Guncho initially responds in French, he has acted within the rules and in the spirit of the law. I'm not encouraging him to fake anyone out. I'm simply telling him what he can expect. If whatever transaction that is supposed to take place, cannot effectively happen in French, I think the other person will likely switch over to English. It may not be better than Francois Legault's English, but it will permit effective communication to happen.

There are stubborn people everywhere, but Quebecois are no different than anyone else when it comes to respecting an honest effort. Here's the Government of Canada terminology translation bank: TERMIUM Plus® — Search - All terms - TERMIUM Plus® - Translation Bureau I find it very useful. A little stiff and non-colloquial at times, but generally more relevant to business communication than Google translate or on-line dictionaries.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

The risk of committing a mistake is too big in a business situation, the ramifications are not worth not using the proper resources. Probably putting his job at risk too. Head office/management will have the answers, wait it out until can get direction.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

The craziest thing is we are taking the clients email and running it through google translate to see what they are requesting. Sounds crazy but it's actually working just fine.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

keto said:


> The risk of committing a mistake is too big in a business situation, the ramifications are not worth not using the proper resources. Probably putting his job at risk too. Head office/management will have the answers, wait it out until can get direction.


No these are our instructions from management. We are using online translators to translate the clients email and then are supposed to use the translator to produce our response. I'm just questioning whether we are legally required to respond in French or not.

Is it the polite thing to do? Sure. Is it legally required? I remain doubtful.


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## BobChuck (Jan 16, 2012)

The way I see it...

Your business is in Ontario? Follow Ontario's laws.
If someone from Quebec wants to hire you, he can't impose french on you.
If he wants to be served in french, tell him to hire someone from Quebec.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

BobChuck said:


> The way I see it...
> 
> Your business is in Ontario? Follow Ontario's laws.
> If someone from Quebec wants to hire you, he can't impose french on you.
> If he wants to be served in french, tell him to hire someone from Quebec.


Well we do have an office in Quebec which is who they would normally deal with.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Once again I'll just mention, if this is what my manager tells me to do, I'll do it. I don't really care. I'm just questioning the "It's against the law to respond in English" part of it.


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## BobChuck (Jan 16, 2012)

Guncho said:


> Well we do have an office in Quebec which is who they would normally deal with.


ok... and you are telling me, nobody speak french in your Quebec Office?


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

BobChuck said:


> The way I see it...
> 
> Your business is in Ontario? Follow Ontario's laws.
> If someone from Quebec wants to hire you, he can't impose french on you.
> If he wants to be served in french, tell him to hire someone from Quebec.


Exactly, tell those French people to deal with other French people and not deal with your Co.

The balls of these French people ...


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## NashvilleDeluxe (Feb 7, 2018)

I live in La Belle Province, and the go-to resource for this is: Language Laws and Doing Business in Quebec | Éducaloi
My impression is that IF your company has a Quebec branch/address, you are obliged to respond in French. If you have no physical address in QC, it comes down to courtesy.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

BobChuck said:


> ok... and you are telling me, nobody speak french in your Quebec Office?


They do but due to pandemic layoffs the one person left in Quebec can't handle the workload themselves.

There are not normal times.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

NashvilleDeluxe said:


> I live in La Belle Province, and the go-to resource for this is: Language Laws and Doing Business in Quebec | Éducaloi
> My impression is that IF your company has a Quebec branch/address, you are obliged to respond in French. If you have no physical address in QC, it comes down to courtesy.


Makes sense.


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## VHTO (Feb 19, 2016)

If I recall correctly, the threshold used to be 50 employees within Quebec, and/or Quebec headquarters. If one or both of those conditions were met, then the company’s internal communications and records, at least within Quebec, are supposed to be in French.

Now if you are responding from out of province, I don’t believe that there is a legal requirement for you to reply in French, however, it would certainly be the courteous thing to do if you are able.
I would be more concerned about important details being lost in translation, especially since it’s going from French to English and back.
Just look at what happens to the lyrics to Fresh Prince...


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

VHTO said:


> If I recall correctly, the threshold used to be 50 employees within Quebec, and/or Quebec headquarters. If one or both of those conditions were met, then the company’s internal communications and records, at least within Quebec, are supposed to be in French.
> 
> Now if you are responding from out of province, I don’t believe that there is a legal requirement for you to reply in French, however, it would certainly be the courteous thing to do if you are able.
> I would be more concerned about important details being lost in translation, especially since it’s going from French to English and back.
> Just look at what happens to the lyrics to Fresh Prince...


It sounds like what you are talking about are internal communications within a company. This is not internal. We are communicating with clients in Quebec.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Guncho said:


> Once again I'll just mention, if this is what my manager tells me to do, I'll do it. I don't really care. I'm just questioning the "It's against the law to respond in English" part of it.


Just off the cuff, I think it is unlikely that you will be arrested and held pending extradition like Meng Wazoo or whatever her name is.

Agreements that are negotiated through a translation app may not be binding though because there is no "meeting of the minds" which is a fundamental requirement in contract law. However I don't know if the stuff you are dealing with approaches the level of a contract or just a simple PO or whatever.


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## VHTO (Feb 19, 2016)

Right. Legally, I don’t believe that you have any obligation to communicate in French with your Quebec customers, and if I read correctly, your company is down to 1 or 2 people in there?

There are reasonably priced translation services which are better than Google, yet not as expensive and slow as human translation. It might be something to look into


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeah the cost for human translation services is insane; I needed some CNRs translated from Hebrew to English and they wanted about 4 grand to do 20 or 30 pages. Nyet to that; the Defense can pay for it if they want to read them .. lol


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Isn't this in your company policy? To me you are off the hook because French police are not going to come knocking on your door (unless it is a federal crime then the RCMP might knock on your door), but your company which is responsible for your behavior may be on the hook if you are doing something illegal. You need to talk to your superiors about that policy. When I worked at my last job we were constantly given "training" for all kinds of weird stuff. Anything from how it was wrong for me to accept a pair of hockey tickets from a customer, or how to deal with someone in a wheelchair and everything in between. I'd be getting something in writing from my boss outlining what they expect.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

knight_yyz said:


> Isn't this in your company policy? To me you are off the hook because French police are not going to come knocking on your door (unless it is a federal crime then the RCMP might knock on your door), but your company which is responsible for your behavior may be on the hook if you are doing something illegal. You need to talk to your superiors about that policy. When I worked at my last job we were constantly given "training" for all kinds of weird stuff. Anything from how it was wrong for me to accept a pair of hockey tickets from a customer, or how to deal with someone in a wheelchair and everything in between. I'd be getting something in writing from my boss outlining what they expect.


It's not in our company policy and has never been an issue as generally my coworkers in Quebec would be communicating with the clients in Quebec.

When they say we legally have to communicate with the French clients in French I don't think they mean I'm going to get arrested or this has anything to do with me personally and the law. ie If Anyone got charged with anything it would be the company, not me.


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## Pierrafeux (Jul 12, 2012)

..........


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Toss it into your boss's lap. Let him deal with it. lol


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

laristotle said:


> Toss it into your boss's lap. Let him deal with it. lol


This is my boss telling us we have to do this.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Wardo said:


> Yeah the cost for human translation services is insane


Is it? There is a certain amount of expertise to accurate human translation that Google just can’t provide. Translation isn’t just translating word for word, you have to convey the meaning and spirit of the text. It requires a level of expertise in the language that takes years to develop. I translated for a tourism magazine in Mexico for several years and it is a ton of work, not to mention the years studying Spanish. If you want good, you gotta pay 

As to Quebec’s language laws, they’re part of doing business there. If your boss is ordering you to do Google translate, do what he says and don’t worry about it.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I misread the original post. It is law that if you are dealing with a French speaking customer in Quebec that you must communicate to them in French. I'm assuming that means your company gets charged. Then what? Do you get reprimanded or fired for breaking company policy? I'm not sure how that would work out unless you were specifically hired as bilingual. 









French language rules


Find out what you need to know and do regarding Québec’s Charter of the French Language and how it impacts your business




www.osler.com


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

jdto said:


> Is it? There is a certain amount of expertise to accurate human translation that Google just can’t provide. Translation isn’t just translating word for word, you have to convey the meaning and spirit of the text. It requires a level of expertise in the language that takes years to develop. I translated for a tourism magazine in Mexico for several years and it is a ton of work, not to mention the years studying Spanish. If you want good, you gotta pay


I don't doubt any that but I don't feel like running up 4 grand in disbursements that I may never get back; the guy should have got is doctor to dictate them in English which would have taken half an hour and I would have given the doctor $500 for his trouble ... lol. 

They did say though that Hebrew was an expensive language to translate.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Wardo said:


> I don't doubt any that but I don't feel like running up 4 grand in disbursements that I may never get back; the guy should have got is doctor to dictate them in English which would have taken half an hour and I would have given him $500 for his trouble ... lol.
> 
> They did say though that Hebrew was an expensive language to translate.


I can understand that, especially when it's a non-essential document for you.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

jdto said:


> I can understand that, especially when it's a non-essential document for you.


Usually CNRs are essential and I have to pay for them but they are in English and there's a limit here on what can be charged per page so it's no big deal; this one though the GP is in Isreal and there's the added cost of translation that I wasn't expecting.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I worked in a similar situation.
what it comes down to, is whatever is written in your company’s terms of service with your clients.
we never committed to having French speaking resources, and were not located in Quebec, as such Quebecs laws were irrelevant. they chose to engage in a contract with us, based on our terms.
they could have gone with a competitor that would provide French resources but did not. That decision is up to them. They are free to provide their own translator if they wish.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

You can also add to your contract that any disputes be resolved pursuant to the laws of Ontario or whatever jurisdiction you happen to be in.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Are rules and laws the same thing? I didn't think so.
Besides that, I think that it's been mentioned that those apply within the province itself.

If you have to translate their messages, they can do the same with yours, no?


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

knight_yyz said:


> I misread the original post. It is law that if you are dealing with a French speaking customer in Quebec that you must communicate to them in French. I'm assuming that means your company gets charged. Then what? Do you get reprimanded or fired for breaking company policy? I'm not sure how that would work out unless you were specifically hired as bilingual.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not dealing with customers. I'm dealing with clients. For arguments sake let's say I do tech support for proprietary software.

I'm not concerned about myself getting in any trouble whether from work or legally. I'm not sure why anyone got that impression.

I'm just trying to ascertain whether my company legally has to respond to French clients in French which is what management is telling us.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Guncho said:


> I'm just trying to ascertain whether my company legally has to respond to French clients in French which is what management is telling us.


The answer is YES.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Guncho said:


> I don't really care about the labour law aspect of this. I just want to know if my company or I would be violating Quebec language laws by responding to a client's French email in English.


Seems like probably you would be.








Language Laws and Doing Business in Quebec | Éducaloi


The Charter of the French Language (Charte de la langue française in French) is a Quebec law that makes French the usual language of business in Quebec. Rules for All Businesses Any person or company that sells products or services in Quebec has to follow the language requirements of the...




educaloi.qc.ca




Does your company have a french business name? Does it have a french version of it's website? If not then you're probably violating something or someone.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Ok, so I used the wrong word. If you read the link I posted they use consumer. 

-Give consumers in Québec customer service in French (e.g., by in-store staff and call centre personnel)


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Yes I'm not dealing with consumers or customers or the general public.


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

Why not respond in both? Place the translated french first, and the the actual english text?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

if you are doing tech support (your example) for a Canadian company and they have an office in Quebec and someone from Quebec emails you a request for support in French, you must respond to them in French. Is that clear enough for you? You are providing a service to a consumer

A consumer is a person or a group who intends to order, orders, or uses purchased goods, products, or services 

Your Boss is therefore correct


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Respond in french using google translate.
Make sure that your first line is 'Using google translate'.
That way the recipient will understand why there's a poor dialogue?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

If you are using Google Translate, run your English to French, then back to English again. If it certain sentences or words don't come back to you the way you wrote it in English, rephrase the section until it does. 

This will really help your robot French to be more accurate.


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## nman (Sep 14, 2019)

Google translate is not nearly accurate enough. And contrary to one comment, there are plenty of English speakers there so it is wrong to say Quebec is a French province.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

ezcomes said:


> Why not respond in both? Place the translated french first, and the the actual english text?


Could certainly do that.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

knight_yyz said:


> if you are doing tech support (your example) for a Canadian company and they have an office in Quebec and someone from Quebec emails you a request for support in French, you must respond to them in French. Is that clear enough for you? You are providing a service to a consumer
> 
> A consumer is a person or a group who intends to order, orders, or uses purchased goods, products, or services
> 
> Your Boss is therefore correct


K you understand though that there's a huge difference between a customer and a client right? I am not dealing with the public. You are assuming that Quebec consumer laws apply to clients. I do not make that assumption.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

laristotle said:


> Respond in french using google translate.
> Make sure that your first line is 'Using google translate'.
> That way the recipient will understand why there's a poor dialogue?


Yeah that's a great idea.

We are actually being told to use this site not google.









DeepL Translate: The world's most accurate translator


Use the free DeepL Translator to translate your texts with the best machine translation available, powered by DeepL’s world-leading neural network technology. Currently supported languages are: Bulgarian, Chinese, Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Estonian, Finnish, French, German, Greek...




www.deepl.com


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

nman said:


> there are plenty of English speakers there so it is wrong to say Quebec is a French province.


A quick read for you:

About Quebec: Canada`s French Province | Canadavisa.com


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## blueshores_guy (Apr 8, 2007)

My recollection from working in a business headquartered in Ontario but having branches in Quebec, is this:
*If you operate a business in the province of Quebec*, you are obligated to have the ability for it to conduct business using the French language. 
And your employees in Quebec are entitled (but not required) to work entirely in French if they wish. This includes written correspondence received from head office and fixed text on computer displays (a major headache if you're using purchased software that has no French option). As well, a company website must give all users the option to see the website contents in French.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

blueshores_guy said:


> My recollection from working in a business headquartered in Ontario but having branches in Quebec, is this:
> *If you operate a business in the province of Quebec*, you are obligated to have the ability for it to conduct business using the French language.
> And your employees in Quebec are entitled (but not required) to work entirely in French if they wish. This includes written correspondence received from head office and fixed text on computer displays (a major headache if you're using purchased software that has no French option). As well, a company website must give all users the option to see the website contents in French.


Sounds like management could be right then.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

According to Quebec law (Loi 101), if I had a company (main office) here, I would have to have French as principal language on my website and be able to serve clients in French.
But, English speaking citizens can get Quebec's government services in English.
If your main office is out of Quebec, I do not see why, at least exceptionally, you could not answer in English if your local office cannot give the service here.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)




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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

mawmow said:


> According to Quebec law (Loi 101), if I had a company (main office) here, I would have to have French as principal language on my website and be able to serve clients in French.
> But, English speaking citizens can get Quebec's government services in English.
> If your main office is out of Quebec, I do not see why, at least exceptionally, you could not answer in English if your local office cannot give the service here.


Yeah honestly I wouldnt put it past management to say we have to do this legally when really they don't know 100% and are just employing a better safe than sorry philosophy and a let's not piss off the French clients approach.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

knight_yyz said:


> View attachment 344663


Can I double, triple or centuple this comment !


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> In my experience, that's much more the case in France than it is in Quebec.


Yup. The corporation I work for is based in France. I have no trouble dealing with them in English. Quebec, not so much.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

*Guncho, *you should try *DeepL *for a translator. I'm fully biligual and can attest it is pretty accurate. Once the app is installed on your computer*,* all you need to do is select the text (in any application or web page) you want translated, press Ctrl-C twice and a window will open with the translation. Copy & paste that where you want it.

DeepL Translate


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

BGood said:


> Nice ... very nice guys.
> 
> *Guncho, *you should try *DeepL *for a translator. I'm fully biligual and can attest it is pretty accurate. Once the app is installed on your computer*,* all you need to do is select the text (in any application or web page) you want translated, press Ctrl-C twice and a window will open with the translation. Copy & paste that where you want it.
> 
> DeepL Translate


Yes we actually are being told to use deepl but I didn't know about the app. I will check that out for sure. I like the idea of putting a disclaimer at the top saying "Text was translated" in case something gets translated incorrectly.


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