# How do you know when to quit a band/project?



## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Curious to hear other's take on this. When do you know you should leave a band or music project? Obviously you don't want to bail too easily, but how do you know where that line is? 

Discuss.


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

When it stops being fun.

When you start finding more important things to do than practicing your set list.

When you start having to squeeze your rehearsals in rather than looking forward to them.

When your bass player tells you he really doesn’t like the Rolling Stones.


----------



## Grainslayer (Sep 26, 2016)

When you are thinking about it enough to ask on a forum?😕


----------



## Peel Ferrari (Jun 22, 2017)

I have a problem putting up with the dictators until I cant hack it. I put in 110%, and will shell out on gear and more, but when the singer starts telling me how to set lead levels and play 'signature parts' while he/she cant learn the song correctly, and uses the "I learned it that way (Im always going to default to it in the moment cause Im a singer) then I lose it. I just dont lose it on the spot. Which I should i. This goes for drummers too who cant learn signature parts but are more than happy to point out guitar parts. Inequity and Paul McCartney syndromes are my triggers.


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I agree that when the fun stops, there's not much point.

When you're all not on the same page.
People not putting in the time between practices, and that shows.

In the last band I was in, there was that dynamic and those same players wanted to, and booked gigs.
There were long spans where we wouldn't even get to practice leading up to these gigs that were booked.
That was the demise of that band when I raised issues about that nonesense.


----------



## Peel Ferrari (Jun 22, 2017)

and everything @JBFairthorne said.


----------



## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

I've done this quite a few times now LOL When it stops being fun. When rehearsals become a chore. And finally, when I get frustrated or don't agree with the way the band leader is running the band and that is usually my main trigger. Time to move on. I've also been through a few bands of my own. They usually last an average of 3 years. LOL And there have been countless reasons for the break up. Usually I just get tired of dealing with the same shit over and over. It's like being in a relationship with people. It's never the music that breaks up the band, it's the crazy personalities. I like 5+ piece bands and dealing with all the personalities can be taxing after awhile.


----------



## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

When you have to interact with people other than your own dogs in your basement.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

When you've slept with the leader's wife but haven't been caught yet. That's a good time to quit.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

All of the above.

Too, I quit two bands a few years ago to free up time to pursue other music projects. I wanted to write more, record more of my own stuff, and arrangements of covers, etc. I miss those bands but one was veering towards country and that ain't good in my mind, the other simply folded. I started to write and record my own stuff more than 40 years ago and hadn't got past demos...[Edit: not quite true, a few tunes were recorded with a band CD project about 15 years ago and got a marginal amount of local attention; and 25 years ago with a different band one tune got some CBC radio play.] I'm more productive now. Anyway, maybe it was time for both bands, given what happened thereafter.


----------



## StratCat (Dec 30, 2013)

Expressed above by others in more depth, but in one word...dis-functional.


----------



## Peel Ferrari (Jun 22, 2017)

Dual, neglected, maxed out cat litter boxes in the jam space is a buzz kill. But what do I know?


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Fights (verbal) between members. Non stop.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

WE've heard about quitting bands. What about the other half: music projects?


----------



## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

The very last band we quit years back it was all mutual. Family, jobs and stuff got in the way and it was just time to move on for all of us. It was still fairly fun, but it moved down the priority list to tie with shoveling the driveway.

The bands in my teens & 20s were another story. I left because of the drug & alcohol pressure. I don't do either and I don't care if my bandmates do (as long as they can musically perform). But at that age, there's a lot of juvenile peer pressure to conform to getting blasted - or tensions mount. Instead I walked if I couldn't negotiate, there were always other bands to join.


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

Last one, NO leadership - me, personally, strongly prefer a strong bandleader. Democracies haven't worked, way too much dithering about (mostly song choices), agreeing for the sake of agreeing but no committment to learning what was agreed upon, leading to a kazillion rehearsals of the stuff we knew but never any actual progress.

Same band, singer wouldn't learn iconic melodies. For example, Comfortably Numb - nobody wants to hear the singer freelance that. She has a good voice so everyone gave her a pass (there were multiple examples, all classic rock icons. 'making it hers' was an excuse and not at all true, it just made me cringe.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Pretty much the reasons already given.


----------



## MFW777 (Aug 3, 2017)

In the last band I was in I noticed a couple of the guys actually going backward as time went on. Really pisses me off when I work my butt off but others just coast from week to week, don’t put in some personal practice time and have no desire to hone their chops to get at least a little bit better.

Another really annoying issue for me is guys not knowing their gear and keeping it in operational order. I played with a keyboard player once where his sound would just cut in and out constantly. He couldn’t figure out what was wrong and clueless how to fix the issue. I did the trouble shooting for him and found the problem to be a faulty volume pedal. So…for weeks after he keeps coming to practice with the same faulty pedal and when the issue would manifest he would look around with a stunned look like “I thought this was fixed”! I kept telling him he needed to _*replace *_the pedal but he just wouldn’t clue in. It drove me absolutely nuts and finally I went to L&M and bought him one. Plugged it in and voila - problem solved.

Listening (or lack there of) is also a big one. Same keyboard player, and BTW he was a *really *good player solo, he just couldn’t gel in a band situation. That left hand just smothered the bass player. We tried to help him with that too but to no avail, the old habits didn’t die hard. Writing was on the wall there and unfortunately it was time to bail.

And…things *don’t *go better with Coke.


----------



## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Money.
Fun.
Worthwhile experience.

If you don't have at least two out of three, it's time to make a change.


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Other band members having lots of problems... always kills a band.

To much drugs, alcohol or just having the worst shitty personality.

Bad equipment ! why is it so hard to have good cables ???  Carry some spares for fuck sakes...

Or basically not agreeing on the music or the arrangements. 

When its a choir just enduring band rehearsals, its time to go...


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

In any rut.


----------



## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

How does even someone find a band?


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Always12AM said:


> How does even someone find a band?


Join circlejerkfinder.com


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Best band breakup I ever seen was when the drummer, who was my best friend, got up while we were playing and walked right through his drum kit to get at the bass player and punch him out. There was cymbals and toms layin all over the floor… lol. He had a bit of a short fuse seen him deck a few people.


----------



## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Always12AM said:


> How does even someone find a band?


I go to Bandmix.ca to look for band members. I've had a few people who I have contacted through that site who became members of my band. There's also groups now on Facebook where people can look for other musicians to fill their band needs.


----------



## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

OK ... about quitting a project. 

You mean like quitting a project of your own - songwriting, recording, mixing, releasing, playing live etc?
Unless you're touring it already with other musicians and it becomes like quitting a band I think quitting a project can be a good thing. It doesn't go anywhere. You stop working on it and put it on a shelf. Maybe a year or two later you look in that box and listen to it again with fresh ears and it's not so bad after all and you pick it up with fresh energy or it really is all the sh!ite you thought and more and then you put it back on the shelf or toss it and don't look back. 

Buddy of mine got a Canada Council grant for a project ... must be at least ten years ago. He stalled out, let it slide, came back to it after probably 6 years of silence and they're all chill about it ready to advise on release and wrap-up and future possibilities. So whatever your opinion of Canada Council grants having a mid-term stall isn't that unusual or much of a big deal and might even help sort the gems from the muck.


----------



## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

The very few times i auditioned for bands i knew within the first hour if things where right for me. The worst is peoples egos. I am very easy going and expect the same from band members.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

When?

It depends a lot on your priorities and goals.

At this stage in my life, if I was to join a band in any capacity, as soon as it stopped being fun, that would be enough for me to advise them to find a replacement.

If I was still more career minded, I would be (and have been) willing to play with people I didn't enjoy being around socially because MUSICALLY it was fun and maybe had some legs.


----------



## Alistair6 (Jul 9, 2007)

I think it depends as well on whether you do it for a living? Is the band or project a job or hobby?


----------



## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

I quit a band (Old Man Rock/Party band) solely on the fact I was outvoted to add "Blurred Lines" to the set list. 

10 years later, I'm still good with it. That and the sax guy was all over my leads. No one, and I mean no one wants to hear "humf...humf...humf" throughout _New Orleans is Sinking_. (actually, I think it was mostly the latter...)


----------



## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Leave before the point at which a departure means burning bridges.
In most cities the pool of quality musicians who are also quality people can be quite small. If you are part of that community then you likely already know how to move on.


----------



## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

I share most of the opinions above, except in one way. Lots of people have advised essentially walking out as soon as things aren't fun. I would qualify that by saying "not fun for a certain amount of time." As everyone who's been in a band knows, it's like being in a relationship with multiple people. Like a marriage, not everyday will be fun. If you walk out on your significant other the first day things are rough, then you will perpetually find yourself alone. I think the sign of a good, functioning, band is that you actually can endure some rough patches. Much like any relationship. I once heard that love = how much sh*t you can take. When the sh*t starts piling up, sure, then it's time to go.


----------



## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

I have not really quit any bands, I just have given up and kept rolling on my own. My group " the dalegreen band" has seen so many new faces over the 10 years I have had it rolling. I realized quickly there are doer's and dreamer's, no room for dreamer's in my books. I don't ask for a lot, just once a week practice and come prepared. When the excuses start coming in last minute that one can not make it to a rehearsal I get it, but when it becomes regular, then it is time for them to move on. I have no hard feelings when people fade away, nothing personal as it is all about the music, I don't dwell on peoples personal life stories as they are not my stories. 
With covid of course everything is on pause, just a few solo gigs at my end and lots of song writing / recording.


----------



## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

As for abandoning projects, I used to make videos for a non-musical club I was part of using canned music or whatever I could find that wasn't copyrighted. I used to produce my own music tracks years back and thought I could slip back into it no problems.

It ended up being extremely time consuming and, being a semi-perfectionist, it was quintupling the time needed to output a video. Not to mention my girl getting tired of hearing the same old edits over & over as I tweaked it (you can't use headphones for everything). Pulled the plug on that, not worth it in the end.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

My problem is that the music is still fun, at least for a while, after people turn jerky. Like there's a lag before the interpersonal stuff ruins the music for me. I was just in so many bands growing up where I wasn't that into the music (nobody I knew liked the same shit as me, but I needed to play with someone) that when I finally found people with common musical ground I was turnt the f on. So many red flags I shoulda heeded earlier. Like pro-line addictions, never being wrong, pulling the old alright everyone who can sight-read raise yer hand and everyone else shaddap. There was one band where I was so into it I didn't even notice how bad the singer/guitarist were getting on (mostly because it was only when they had both had a few beer after a gig and somehow I was never right there when they got into it) until the singer came in crying that the guitarist actually punched him this time.

... like why in particular do some ego-lords always/only start shit on out of town gigs?


----------



## MFW777 (Aug 3, 2017)

Wardo said:


> Best band breakup I ever seen was when the drummer, who was my best friend, got up while we were playing and walked right through his drum kit to get at the bass player and punch him out.


Hilarious! I had a similar drummer issue. Right in the middle of a set, I‘m in MC mode and introducing the next song, literally counting in and out of the corner of my eye I see he’s up from his kit and going through the door to head downstairs to the loo. No, warning he just gets up and leaves his post. The guy probably had six or seven beers leading up to this. Never experienced such unprofessional behaviour. Needless to say, I was “outta there” the next day.


----------



## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

MFW777 said:


> Hilarious! I had a similar drummer issue. Right in the middle of a set, I‘m in MC mode and introducing the next song, literally counting in and out of the corner of my eye I see he’s up from his kit and going through the door to head downstairs to the loo. No, warning he just gets up and leaves his post. The guy probably had six or seven beers leading up to this. Never experienced such unprofessional behaviour. Needless to say, I was “outta there” the next day.


Drummers are weird sometimes. I had a drummer who answered his phone right in the middle of a song. LOL He didn't stop though and I don't know how he is able to talk to the other person in the other line.


----------



## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

OK ... about quitting a project. 

You mean like quitting a project of your own - songwriting, recording, mixing, releasing, playing live etc?
Unless you're touring it already with other musicians and it becomes like quitting a band I think quitting a project can be a good thing. It doesn't go anywhere. You stop working on it and put it on a shelf. Maybe a year or two later you look in that box and listen to it again with fresh ears and it's not so bad after all and you pick it up with fresh energy or it really is all the sh!ite you thought and more and then you put it back on the shelf or toss it and don't look back. 

Buddy of mine got a Canada Council grant for a project ... must be at least ten years ago. He stalled out, let it slide, came back to it after probably 6 years of silence and they're all chill about it ready to advise on release and wrap-up and future possibilities. So whatever your opinion of Canada Council grants having a mid-term stall isn't that unusual or much of a big deal and might even help sort the gems from the muck.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

isoneedacoffee said:


> I share most of the opinions above, except in one way. Lots of people have advised essentially walking out as soon as things aren't fun. I would qualify that by saying "not fun for a certain amount of time." As everyone who's been in a band knows, it's like being in a relationship with multiple people. Like a marriage, not everyday will be fun. If you walk out on your significant other the first day things are rough, then you will perpetually find yourself alone. I think the sign of a good, functioning, band is that you actually can endure some rough patches. Much like any relationship. I once heard that love = how much sh*t you can take. When the sh*t starts piling up, sure, then it's time to go.


You're right of course. Bailing at the first sign of trouble isn't a particularly enviable characteristic.

However, one's tolerence for bullshit does tend to diminish as the years pass.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

I've only had one band that my brother and I started up about three years ago and it's still fun. The lead player doesn't do his homework though. He likes to play the rhythm parts with me which would be fine if he had the same strumming pattern and didn't screw up the chords so often. We're going to a band coach soon which I hope will help us all. Life is too short to not have fun but I wouldn't let minor issues cause me to leave a band. They're too hard to get going and I love playing music so much, I can put up with a lot. We mostly go grab a beer after each session too which helps.


----------



## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

Milkman said:


> You're right of course. Bailing at the first sign of trouble isn't a particularly enviable characteristic.
> 
> However, one's tolerence for bullshit does tend to diminish as the years pass.


Good point. I would also say as the years pass, you also realize what bullshit you yourself bring to the table.

It can't be true that everyone replying to this thread are on the receiving end of the crap involved in being in dysfunctional bands. Logically, about half of the people responding here are likely themselves the very prerpetrators of creating bad dynamics and are largely responsible for the bands' demise. 

Again, like a marriage, you also have to come to realize what crap you bring to the relationship.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

isoneedacoffee said:


> Good point. I would also say as the years pass, you also realize what bullshit you yourself bring to the table.
> 
> It can't be true that everyone replying to this thread are on the receiving end of the crap involved in being in dysfunctional bands. Logically, about half of the people responding here are likely themselves the very prerpetrators of creating bad dynamics and are largely responsible for the bands' demise.
> 
> Again, like a marriage, you also have to come to realize what crap you bring to the relationship.



Yes, fair enough.

Bitter council is good medicine as the saying goes.

I have very likely been at the root of the failure of at least 50% of my bands, maybe more.


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Last band I left we were trying out a new guitarist. The guy had our list of tunes (3 sets) for over a month and showed up not knowing one song. We spent the entire time just fucking around but they (drummer, singer and new guy) had a blast getting high and drunk.

i packed my gear and never returned.

i was told I was to stiff and a drag …


----------



## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Great discussion everyone! I'm in a situation where I signed on to a project. It's supposed to be playing this artist's original songs and maybe a few covers thrown in to fill out a set. Basically a set (10-12 songs). It's in a genre I'm not really into but I thought this would be a good learning opportunity and chance to expand my horizons. 

I've been to three rehearsals so far. Not one has had every member of the band there. I thought I'd basically be learning songs that were already done and then just jumping in to play parts. Instead we've been "reworking" his songs and in some cases completely rewriting them. Again, not a genre I'm well versed in, but trying to contribute. He's gung-ho about gigging and it's not even remotely close to ready. Then the other day he drops on me that we probably need two sets of material to play out. I asked what we are going to fill another set with? Covers. Again, of a genre I'm not keen on. I have no problem playing/learning covers, but given that this is a style of music I don't even listen to, I've never even heard any of the songs they want to do. Not even a passing familiarity. 

I'm finding myself feeling anxious and not really looking forward to rehearsals. I feel like I don't want to be premature in pulling the plug, but I'm not really having a good time and I don't know if I have the time to commit to putting in the proper amount of work to be prepared to play.


----------



## WhiskyJack1977 (Nov 10, 2016)

When it stops being fun and you are getting nothing out of it.

Also i second the vices. no issues with people having vices mind you, lord knows some of us all have our crutch, but the very last band i was ever in the practices were:

Show up.
talk shit for 20 minutes about the old band (was the same band with a new singer and minus the VLT addicted bass player)
take a break from talking to shit to roll joints, powder noses, and talk more shit.
play a song
stop to roll another and play NHL 2007 and shoot shit about how much work sucks
play two more songs
talk about how the first song sounded too much like a bad religion song
stop to roll joints and listen to bad religion.
play some covers
order pizzas and rolled more joints and powder noses and chuffed back a few darts
play another song then try to flesh out a new one
pizza shows up
practice over.

EVERY.FRIGGIN.TIME. No exaggeration. Rinse lather repeat all the time.

Meanwhile i sat there the whole time drinking a beer wearing my guitar just wanting the night to get on and either write something new or go home and do something constructive. I put up with that for about two or three months then i just tapped out. I went and got all my gear and never went back.

Haven't been in a band since and just do home recording of my own crap now for me. I do miss being in a band sometimes and working with other people. People to feed off of and push each other but then you run into the usual headaches of trying to work together with other humans.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

This thread got me to remembering all my bands and why I left them. I'm rather pleasantly surprised that I'm still on friendly terms with most of them...I mean, the ones I haven't lost track of, the ones who haven't died, and the ones who aren't complete asswipes. Some former bandmates are among my closest friends.


----------



## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Great discussion everyone! I'm in a situation where I signed on to a project. It's supposed to be playing this artist's original songs and maybe a few covers thrown in to fill out a set. Basically a set (10-12 songs). It's in a genre I'm not really into but I thought this would be a good learning opportunity and chance to expand my horizons.
> 
> I've been to three rehearsals so far. Not one has had every member of the band there. I thought I'd basically be learning songs that were already done and then just jumping in to play parts. Instead we've been "reworking" his songs and in some cases completely rewriting them. Again, not a genre I'm well versed in, but trying to contribute. He's gung-ho about gigging and it's not even remotely close to ready. Then the other day he drops on me that we probably need two sets of material to play out. I asked what we are going to fill another set with? Covers. Again, of a genre I'm not keen on. I have no problem playing/learning covers, but given that this is a style of music I don't even listen to, I've never even heard any of the songs they want to do. Not even a passing familiarity.
> 
> I'm finding myself feeling anxious and not really looking forward to rehearsals. I feel like I don't want to be premature in pulling the plug, but I'm not really having a good time and I don't know if I have the time to commit to putting in the proper amount of work to be prepared to play.


I'm actually at this stage in the process of forming a band which started off as a duo. Difference is, first I don't put up with people who cannot be relied on to show up. They are also all expected to learn the tunes before we start rehearsing on the 19th. At least 10 of the original songs we have. We have 17 originals with more to come. I have a new bass player and a drummer that auditioned a few years ago. And we might also have to add a couple of covers to fill up 2 sets. If they come to the rehearsal and not be prepared, their time in the band won't be long. I know it's not easy getting people to play but I rather go through that process of looking for a replacement rather than put up with BS.

Now if I was in your place, I would've been long gone.


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Milkman said:


> You're right of course. Bailing at the first sign of trouble isn't a particularly enviable characteristic.
> 
> However, one's tolerence for bullshit does tend to diminish as the years pass.


That, and I'm not "in love" with any bandmates.
Sure, it is a relationship, but I'm not nearly invested into that than a signifigant other.


----------



## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Great discussion everyone! I'm in a situation where I signed on to a project. It's supposed to be playing this artist's original songs and maybe a few covers thrown in to fill out a set. Basically a set (10-12 songs). It's in a genre I'm not really into but I thought this would be a good learning opportunity and chance to expand my horizons.
> 
> I've been to three rehearsals so far. Not one has had every member of the band there. I thought I'd basically be learning songs that were already done and then just jumping in to play parts. Instead we've been "reworking" his songs and in some cases completely rewriting them. Again, not a genre I'm well versed in, but trying to contribute. He's gung-ho about gigging and it's not even remotely close to ready. Then the other day he drops on me that we probably need two sets of material to play out. I asked what we are going to fill another set with? Covers. Again, of a genre I'm not keen on. I have no problem playing/learning covers, but given that this is a style of music I don't even listen to, I've never even heard any of the songs they want to do. Not even a passing familiarity.
> 
> I'm finding myself feeling anxious and not really looking forward to rehearsals. I feel like I don't want to be premature in pulling the plug, but I'm not really having a good time and I don't know if I have the time to commit to putting in the proper amount of work to be prepared to play.


Perhaps I'm wrong but it sounds like not everybody was very forthcoming when it was decided that you join the band, and that actually includes you. Did you say from the start that "It's in a genre I'm not really into."

Later you talk about covers:

_Then the other day he drops on me that we probably need two sets of material to play out. I asked what we are going to fill another set with? Covers. Again, of a genre I'm not keen on. I have no problem playing/learning covers, but given that this is a style of music I don't even listen to, I've never even heard any of the songs they want to do. Not even a passing familiarity._

Was playing covers not spoken about openly before you accepted to be part of this, or part of your audition? And surely if covers would be on the table, the genre of the covers would be the next logical question.

I think perhaps you would enjoy it more if you were just more open about what it is that you want, and find out precisely what is expected of you. To me it doesn't make sense that you begin by saying that you thought "this would be a good learning opportunity and chance to expand my horizons" yet later complain that you aren't familiar with the genre.

Again, my recommendation is to just be open and honest and let the conversation go where it may. You may find that the band is amenable to you slowly dipping your toes into this genre. Or maybe it's a no-go. Regardless, I think you will be happier with the outcome rather than just walking away for the reasons you've stated above.


----------



## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

sulphur said:


> That, and I'm not "in love" with any bandmates.
> Sure, it is a relationship, but I'm not nearly invested into that than a signifigant other.


I used marriage as an easy example of a relationship that most people are invested in making it work. I could also use the relationship between colleagues at work as an example. You don't quit the first day you have a bad day on the job.


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

isoneedacoffee said:


> I used marriage as an easy example of a relationship that most people are invested in making it work. I could also use the relationship between colleagues at work as an example. You don't quit the first day you have a bad day on the job.


Different again, that's my mealticket, if the band was, sure it would be a similar situation.
With a "hobby band", as I called it, it's not my principal source of income.
In fact, it didn't even pay for the gas to get to practices and gigs.

I've only been in a few bands over the years.
First one disolved after the singer left town while in the middle of marriage issues, 
we waited for months until we found out that she started working in the town that she left for.

The bass player from that band and I formed a three piece with another drummer and that was together for around ten years.
That was over only after a member had left town.

This last band had odd dynamics. I replace a guitarist that got the boot after calling out the drummer at a gig for his lousy playing. (not cool to do either)
They wanted to gig, but a couple of members, the ones that were booking all the gigs didn't want to, or have the time to put into the band.
That was my gripe. If you're too busy, I get that, but don't book the gigs then. I don't want ot be involved in a trainwreck on stage.

I'm pretty easy to get along with, for the most part, but I don't put up with nonesense for long either.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> I'm finding myself feeling anxious and not really looking forward to rehearsals. I feel like I don't want to be premature in pulling the plug, but I'm not really having a good time and I don't know if I have the time to commit to putting in the proper amount of work to be prepared to play.


Bail out now.
Don't waste your and their time if you're not happy.


----------



## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

isoneedacoffee said:


> Perhaps I'm wrong but it sounds like not everybody was very forthcoming when it was decided that you join the band, and that actually includes you. Did you say from the start that "It's in a genre I'm not really into."
> 
> Later you talk about covers:
> 
> ...


I was very clear and up front about my lack of experience with the genre. They were excited to bring me into the fold and "convert" another player, as it were. There's a big difference between a couple covers to fill out a set (which was what was discussed originally), and learning over a dozen additional covers on top of that.


----------



## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Everybody has baggage, you learn to live with others baggage or move on to somebody else's baggage which might be worse or more to your liking.


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

When something at the back of your mind is just starting to say "I don't want to f-ing well do this anymore"


----------



## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Well, I just pulled the band-aid off. I quit the band. I just explained that I don't have the time to give it 100% and I'm basically doing them a disservice by continuing to try and fudge my way through it. They're good people, I just can't be what they need.


----------



## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Great discussion everyone! I'm in a situation where I signed on to a project. It's supposed to be playing this artist's original songs and maybe a few covers thrown in to fill out a set. Basically a set (10-12 songs). It's in a genre I'm not really into but I thought this would be a good learning opportunity and chance to expand my horizons.
> 
> I've been to three rehearsals so far. Not one has had every member of the band there. I thought I'd basically be learning songs that were already done and then just jumping in to play parts. Instead we've been "reworking" his songs and in some cases completely rewriting them. Again, not a genre I'm well versed in, but trying to contribute. He's gung-ho about gigging and it's not even remotely close to ready. Then the other day he drops on me that we probably need two sets of material to play out. I asked what we are going to fill another set with? Covers. Again, of a genre I'm not keen on. I have no problem playing/learning covers, but given that this is a style of music I don't even listen to, I've never even heard any of the songs they want to do. Not even a passing familiarity.
> 
> I'm finding myself feeling anxious and not really looking forward to rehearsals. I feel like I don't want to be premature in pulling the plug, but I'm not really having a good time and I don't know if I have the time to commit to putting in the proper amount of work to be prepared to play.


Not sure what other scenes are like, but in mine original bands were typically one set, 30, 45 or 60 minute timeslots.

Someone above mentioned doers vs dreamers. My band or doers did it’s first gig after a couple weeks with two originals and a cover (battle of the bands format). Four months later we were in the studio and recorded an EP.

Dreamers don’t know how to get things done. They think they need a set, then you get a set and they think you need three sets. You get three sets and they think you need a full Vegas production. You get the Vegas production and now they need dancing pandas. Problem is, none of them know how to hustle and network so they just keep inventing roadblocks.

So, to answer the original question about when to leave… for me it’s about whether or not the band has a hustler. If it has a guy that can get gigs then I’m in, if it’s clear that the band is all talk and no action, the it’s time to hit the eject button.


----------



## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

1SweetRide said:


> ... We're going to a band coach soon which I hope will help us all. ...


That's a great way to go - having a disinterested third party doing all of the ego bruising is an excellent option. Until it's my ego that's under fire... 😁


----------



## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

bw66 said:


> Money.
> Fun.
> Worthwhile experience.
> 
> If you don't have at least two out of three, it's time to make a change.



This is almost exactly what my guitar teacher would say.

Good music, good friends, good money. All three is ideal, but you need two out of three to keep a band going.


----------



## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

The band that I quit just wasn’t getting any better, it was not good enough to play a gig. I suspect the problem was me. The bassist kept booking gigs, which were terrible, despite me saying not to do that. I don’t know why they didn’t carry on with the new guitarist they had already brought in.

I thought I was going to use the time to practice and get better at Jazz, but it just went into the ether..


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## eveready (Nov 29, 2009)

Pretty much when you stop smiling when thinking about it...


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> I was very clear and up front about my lack of experience with the genre.


Sounds like a good decision. Nintendocore is hard to master


----------



## Stephenlouis (Jun 24, 2019)

after they hear me play.


----------



## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Well, I just pulled the band-aid off. I quit the band. I just explained that I don't have the time to give it 100% and I'm basically doing them a disservice by continuing to try and fudge my way through it. They're good people, I just can't be what they need.


You gave then the old "it's not you it's me" routine. Clever!


----------



## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

When a sideman decides that we have to be a "democracy." And the first thing we will do in this democracy is change the band name so it's no longer associated with me. And we have to become a wedding band because that's where the money is. Told him bluntly no. He quit. Then pressured me to re-form the band but under a new name and as a wedding band. By this time i knew the poison and said not a chance…

The band is still active but the saxophone has been replaced with an excellent guitar player who is completely with the program. Complete win.


----------



## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Doug Gifford said:


> When a sideman decides that we have to be a "democracy." And the first thing we will do in this democracy is change the band name so it's no longer associated with me. And we have to become a wedding band because that's where the money is. Told him bluntly no. He quit. Then pressured me to re-form the band but under a new name and as a wedding band. By this time i knew the poison and said not a chance…
> 
> The band is still active but the saxophone has been replaced with an excellent guitar player who is completely with the program. Complete win.


"Democracy" I have never been in a band that doesn't have a band leader. It's hard enough to find a good band leader but without one, it's not going to go anywhere. All through the years I have experienced playing in 3 bands where the band leader doesn't really know what he is doing. One was so disorganized, he can't even get a setlist sorted out for a gig. He asked me to learn 50 songs in 2 weeks, then after the first rehearsal, he comes up with another set of 50 songs, some of which are in the first one and some not. We would rehearse 3 sets and when the gig comes, we only played 1 1/2 set for whatever reason. Another one, he was so narcissistic, I'm not even going to explain what he did. And the last one, the band leader and his wife who also sings in the band will bicker on stage. They did this ALL the time. Except for the last one though, I still am in contact with the other two. 
One of the things, I do when I form a band is to let everyone know I'm leading this band. I choose the songs we play, I do the arrangements, I book the shows, I host the rehearsals at my place. And all through the years I have had one leave the band and that's only because he got recruited by a band that was gigging more than we did. Most of the time I fire them LOL I just let go of our drummer in this new band about a couple of months ago. He shows up late, sometimes would call an hour before the rehearsal to say he is not feeling well which I knew was going to happen because he DJed the previous night. So everyone shows up and we don't have a drummer. So next call he gets from me, I tell him "you are too busy for this band. Thanks for your time".


----------



## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Chito said:


> "Democracy" I have never been in a band that doesn't have a band leader. It's hard enough to find a good band leader but without one, it's not going to go anywhere. All through the years I have experienced playing in 3 bands where the band leader doesn't really know what he is doing. One was so disorganized, he can't even get a setlist sorted out for a gig. He asked me to learn 50 songs in 2 weeks, then after the first rehearsal, he comes up with another set of 50 songs, some of which are in the first one and some not. We would rehearse 3 sets and when the gig comes, we only played 1 1/2 set for whatever reason. Another one, he was so narcissistic, I'm not even going to explain what he did. And the last one, the band leader and his wife who also sings in the band will bicker on stage. They did this ALL the time. Except for the last one though, I still am in contact with the other two.
> One of the things, I do when I form a band is to let everyone know I'm leading this band. I choose the songs we play, I do the arrangements, I book the shows, I host the rehearsals at my place. And all through the years I have had one leave the band and that's only because he got recruited by a band that was gigging more than we did. Most of the time I fire them LOL I just let go of our drummer in this new band about a couple of months ago. He shows up late, sometimes would call an hour before the rehearsal to say he is not feeling well which I knew was going to happen because he DJed the previous night. So everyone shows up and we don't have a drummer. So next call he gets from me, I tell him "you are too busy for this band. Thanks for your time".


I usually end up leading the bands I'm in. But I prefer to have a consensus on stuff. I seek the input of the group. I prefer to think of myself as more of the team captain.


----------



## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

player99 said:


> Join circlejerkfinder.com


I would like to report my wrist game is on full blast.


----------



## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Chito said:


> "Democracy" I have never been in a band that doesn't have a band leader. It's hard enough to find a good band leader but without one, it's not going to go anywhere. All through the years I have experienced playing in 3 bands where the band leader doesn't really know what he is doing. One was so disorganized, he can't even get a setlist sorted out for a gig. He asked me to learn 50 songs in 2 weeks, then after the first rehearsal, he comes up with another set of 50 songs, some of which are in the first one and some not. We would rehearse 3 sets and when the gig comes, we only played 1 1/2 set for whatever reason. Another one, he was so narcissistic, I'm not even going to explain what he did. And the last one, the band leader and his wife who also sings in the band will bicker on stage. They did this ALL the time. Except for the last one though, I still am in contact with the other two.
> One of the things, I do when I form a band is to let everyone know I'm leading this band. I choose the songs we play, I do the arrangements, I book the shows, I host the rehearsals at my place. And all through the years I have had one leave the band and that's only because he got recruited by a band that was gigging more than we did. Most of the time I fire them LOL I just let go of our drummer in this new band about a couple of months ago. He shows up late, sometimes would call an hour before the rehearsal to say he is not feeling well which I knew was going to happen because he DJed the previous night. So everyone shows up and we don't have a drummer. So next call he gets from me, I tell him "you are too busy for this band. Thanks for your time".


I agree that it can't be_ fully_ democratic. There needs to be one (or two) that "step-up" and take the lead. It does make things run smoother. But song choices, set lists, and to a degree, work load needs to have input. Otherwise it isn't a "band", but a bunch of sidemen. It could lose chemistry.


----------



## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

SWLABR said:


> I agree that it can't be_ fully_ democratic. There needs to be one (or two) that "step-up" and take the lead. It does make things run smoother. But song choices, set lists, and to a degree, work load needs to have input. Otherwise it isn't a "band", but a bunch of sidemen. It could lose chemistry.


I do agree regarding getting some input from the guys. The main reason I do most of the song choices is because usually before I invite someone to the band, I already have an idea of what kind of music I want the band to play. So that also becomes part of the discussion at the beginning. In this new band though, since the originals are a collaboration between me and the singer, she has a lot of leverage specially in song choices for the covers we do. And also she plays a big role on the decisions made towards the direction of the band. I might sound like a dictator on my posts LOL but I assume most of these guys I work with like what I'm doing or they would've left a long time ago.


----------



## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Chito said:


> I do agree regarding getting some input from the guys. The main reason I do most of the song choices is because usually before I invite someone to the band, I already have an idea of what kind of music I want the band to play. So that also becomes part of the discussion at the beginning. In this new band though, since the originals are a collaboration between me and the singer, she has a lot of leverage specially in song choices for the covers we do. And also she plays a big role on the decisions made towards the direction of the band. I might sound like a dictator on my posts LOL but I assume most of these guys I work with like what I'm doing or they would've left a long time ago.


Nah... I didn't get the "Dictator" vibe. I suppose it depends on the end result a project is looking for. Bunch of dads playing Dad Rock a few weekends a month would be handled differently than what you just mentioned.


----------



## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

It's time to quit the band when you are asked to leave.  

For me these days, it's when the people in the band end up having different goals. I was in one group that was meant to be just fun, but then some members left and others joined. Eventually, there were some people that were in search of stardom who were willing to drive for hours to play some bar who-knows-where several times a month because they thought they were awesome and this would help them become rock stars. Maybe that would be okay if I was in my 20's or if there was some world-class talent involved, but neither was the case.

Another reason to leave is if being in the band is a constant drain on the wallet. I don't need to make money from being in a band, but I don't want to have to chip in lots of money either.


----------



## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Chito said:


> I do agree regarding getting some input from the guys. The main reason I do most of the song choices is because usually before I invite someone to the band, I already have an idea of what kind of music I want the band to play. So that also becomes part of the discussion at the beginning. In this new band though, since the originals are a collaboration between me and the singer, she has a lot of leverage specially in song choices for the covers we do. And also she plays a big role on the decisions made towards the direction of the band. I might sound like a dictator on my posts LOL but I assume most of these guys I work with like what I'm doing or they would've left a long time ago.


Depends what kind of band chemistry you want to have. As was previously remarked, a total dictatorship is basically that band leader and a bunch of side men. And usually they function that way too. The other players aren't invested in it and couldn't care one way or another about the success of the group. I've been in groups like this. Everyone just shows up the minimum they have to, you know your parts, you play the gig, you get paid. It's a means to an end and the players are all replaceable on almost a moment's notice. .

I prefer everyone feel invested in the project like they have a stake in it. However you can't go full committee otherwise nothing ever gets done. So in this scenario as leader I more try and steer it in a direction rather than force it. 

I had a singer join my one group and he was used to the dictatorship (usually with him in charge). He tried to turn us into that. He felt different members should be paid a different share based on what their contribution is. Also tried to fire off some members to try and lean it down in order to make more money for himself (bigger cut of the pie). He finally left because while we agreed to some of his ideas, others we flat out refused. Like no, we're not going to fire the backing singer/percussionist who has been part of the group since forming just because you don't think we need her and you're also mad she's getting an equal cut of the gig money. We all get paid the same because we're all at the rehearsals, and we're all up there on the stage the entire time doing a show. There's no different tiers of band member.


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I think it’s clear that there’s no ONE way of doing things.

Personally, I prefer a situation where everyone has a say, especially with regards to material. But then, my goals are different, I couldn’t care less about whether we gig or not or whether we make a penny or not. Someone always needs to steer a little though, try to keep it a little organized. I play for fun….anything that gets in the way of that I either remove…or remove myself.


----------



## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Depends what kind of band chemistry you want to have. As was previously remarked, a total dictatorship is basically that band leader and a bunch of side men. And usually they function that way too. The other players aren't invested in it and couldn't care one way or another about the success of the group. I've been in groups like this. Everyone just shows up the minimum they have to, you know your parts, you play the gig, you get paid. It's a means to an end and the players are all replaceable on almost a moment's notice. .
> 
> I prefer everyone feel invested in the project like they have a stake in it. However you can't go full committee otherwise nothing ever gets done. So in this scenario as leader I more try and steer it in a direction rather than force it.
> 
> I had a singer join my one group and he was used to the dictatorship (usually with him in charge). He tried to turn us into that. He felt different members should be paid a different share based on what their contribution is. Also tried to fire off some members to try and lean it down in order to make more money for himself (bigger cut of the pie). He finally left because while we agreed to some of his ideas, others we flat out refused. Like no, we're not going to fire the backing singer/percussionist who has been part of the group since forming just because you don't think we need her and you're also mad she's getting an equal cut of the gig money. We all get paid the same because we're all at the rehearsals, and we're all up there on the stage the entire time doing a show. There's no different tiers of band member.


Well I don't have issues with band chemistry. I expect the members to invest in it. And that's part of being in my band. Partly also because we get to know each other after having rehearsals every week. And when we are playing original material, everyone has the opportunity to add to the composition by playing what they feel is best for the song. If someone just comes in and doesn't care about the success of the band, they are weeded out pretty quickly.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Worst reason to quit a band? Because your girlfriend says she's not getting enough of your time. Bad enough on the face of it but it's really code for "I'm so insecure that in spite of a complete lack of evidence I think you're boinking groupies on the side". 

(Fwiw, it was not Mrs. Mooh, she's the very definition of musician enabler.)


----------

