# Profiling amps what do you think?



## roblopes (Apr 14, 2014)

There is a strong trend for profiling amps, like DV Mark, Kemper, etc

Few well known guitar players adopting the new technology, and I am quite impressed by the results of some of them.

You rent a vintage amp, create the profiling, and voilá. You can carry multiple vintage amps there.

Any thoughts on this?

Cheers,
Rob


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## Guest (May 7, 2014)

Yes:



> You rent a vintage amp, create the profiling, and voilá.


Isn't as easy as you think it would be. Thankfully there's guys like Andy at The Amp Factory who are turning out awesome profiles (and IRs if you're using a modeller and not a profiler).


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

The technology is awesome. Yes, it works well and you can get "in" for as little as a couple of hundred bucks if you buy used.

Naturally you can also spend thousands if you have need for a higher end system.

IMO it's the way to go.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I think we call a spade a spade: profiling amps are racist

If you don't like what i have to say, then you are racist.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

As always I'm late to the party. What's profiling and what makes it different from modelling?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

allthumbs56 said:


> As always I'm late to the party. What's profiling and what makes it different from modelling?


In the best terms I can concoct, modelling is when you try to copy something. Profiling is having that something and "simply" making an exact copy of that sound.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

The Kemper is intriguing but the cost has me stalled


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Budda said:


> In the best terms I can concoct, modelling is when you try to copy something. Profiling is having that something and "simply" making an exact copy of that sound.


So it's like a sampler vs a synthesizer?


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I agree. The Kemper stuff is absolutely astounding. I have yet to play one, but I wouldn't be opposed to owning one; however, the price tag does scare me.

I love the idea of owning a profiling amp because I do like to have the ability to make any tonal adjustments right then and there. I've never been a huge fan of amp programs like Guitar Rig because I miss the tactile quality of having a "traditional amp"; but I do admit, they sound great.



GuitarsCanada said:


> The Kemper is intriguing but the cost has me stalled


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

allthumbs56 said:


> So it's like a sampler vs a synthesizer?


That pretty much captures it.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

adcandour said:


> I think we call a spade a spade: profiling amps are racist
> 
> If you don't like what i have to say, then you are racist.


 ................


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

OK, I watched a demo of the Kemper. It was impressive. So were the POD and Tonelabs demos I've seen though. My old Ensoniq can do a pretty good piano or fiddle ...... or Flintstones noise. Perhaps I'm hung up on the whole "snapshot" thing. It'd be like watching me for 20 minutes and concluding that you know my life or recording the characteristics of a Camaro doing 40 mph and projecting how it would perform at 120 mph.

Am I right? Or am I missing something?


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## Guest (May 7, 2014)

allthumbs56 said:


> As always I'm late to the party. What's profiling and what makes it different from modelling?


Profiling employs a synthesis engine, using something like a grain table system, and runs test signals through a live setup to discover the response curves of the system for different stimuli. It then seeds its tables with those response signals and does some creative interpolation to allow you to alter the response of the profiled system from what it was when you did the discovery.

A modeller attempts to model the entire system, end-to-end, in the digital domain. So all the various components and interactions in the systems are represented by components in the model. The better and more detailed the model, the better the modeller.

The both have their pros and cons.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

A Roland GR-55 and the Fishman Triple Play, IMHO, would be in the profiler category.


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## Guest (May 8, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> A Roland GR-55 and the Fishman Triple Play, IMHO, would be in the profiler category.


Except it's modelling.  The only profiler out there to the best of my knowledge is the Kemper.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

iaresee said:


> Except it's modelling.  The only profiler out there to the best of my knowledge is the Kemper.


You beat me to it. 

Like many of Steadly's facts so are his opinions.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I think that it is a great idea. Get the all the amp sounds you want in one handy package. I am not educated on it enough to know if it is better or worse than modelling, but going either way, I like it. Now they just need a pass code to punch in so if anyone steals your amp it is useless to them next time it boots up.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

I like it in concept, but in practice.....I have had limited exposure to them, but in a couple of back-to-back vids on Youtube, I hear a difference....kind of like an MP3 vs. a CD. It's the same but it isn't.

That said, the difference is_ very _slight.


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## GUInessTARS (Dec 28, 2007)

I had some experience this past winter with an older digidesign Eleven Rack. I was pleasantly impressed. 
It is a much simpler modeller than the Kemper or Fractal, but in the context I used it (some recording and jamming)
it held it's own. The tone and playability allowed me to use it as an amp, and forget about the computer programming stuff.
It has knobs to twist for parameter adjustment and a simple interface that shows you what you have and where it is.
It is easy to change the gain, tone and volume - while you are playing. Adding chorus, reverb, delay, compression, distortion or wah
is stomp box simple. No parameter pages, cursors, or numerical esoteric parameter values to figure out. 
I have no doubt that the newer Kemper and Fractal units tromp it in the number and adjustability of their sounds, but as an affordable
and easy to use piece of kit that you can run without the manual, it certainly worked for me.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

iaresee said:


> Except it's modelling.  The only profiler out there to the best of my knowledge is the Kemper.


The GR-55 is synthesiser. I believe synthesisers are more of a profiler than a modeller. 

The Triple Play is a little different animal. It's software based and not a true modeller because you build the sound you want. Some of those have already been programmed and loaded into the software program but you can build pretty much any sound you want with the software, similar to what the Roland synthesiser does.


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## Guest (May 9, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> The GR-55 is synthesiser. I believe synthesisers are more of a profiler than a modeller.


For guitar sounds it uses a transfer function, same as the other Boss stuff -- modelling. Sorry dude.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

:sAng_scream: You guys are making my head hurt. It could be just me banging my head with my laptop but I think it's you guys...

I'm soooo confused.

... help ...


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Pffft. Plug into a few. Try them.

Personally I don't give a crap whether it's a modeler, profiler, flux capacitor....whatever.

How does it sound?


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Pffft. Plug into a few. Try them.
> 
> Personally I don't give a crap whether it's a modeler, profiler, flux capacitor....whatever.
> 
> How does it sound?


+1

Leave the terminology to the marketing gurus.

Use the tools (whatever you have at hand) to make good music.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

iaresee said:


> For guitar sounds it uses a transfer function, same as the other Boss stuff -- modelling. Sorry dude.


Well, no need to be sorry. I appreciate you correcting me. So, since you are obviously more informed than I am, what would you say about the Fishman Triple Play. It seems to be software based, so to me, I would say it is neither a modeller or a profiler. Is this correct. Please let me know what you think. Thanks, Steadfastly


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## Guest (May 10, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> Well, no need to be sorry. I appreciate you correcting me. So, since you are obviously more informed than I am, what would you say about the Fishman Triple Play. It seems to be software based, so to me, I would say it is neither a modeller or a profiler. Is this correct. Please let me know what you think. Thanks, Steadfastly


It isn't that the GR is doing synthesis or not (it's a very fuzzy line to draw...synthesis is a VERY broad term). What makes things profilers or not profilers is how the synthesis engine determines the transfer function to use apply to your guitar signal. AFAIK the Kemper is the ONLY unit that creates the transfer function on the fly by sampling a system for it's frequency response. I believe they even have a patent on it. It was born out of Kemper (the man's) work with modelling synthesis for keyboard systems. Dude is very smart and it's a pretty cool idea (even if I am a die hard Axe-Fx fan). Non-profilers use pre-computed transfer functions.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

iaresee said:


> It isn't that the GR is doing synthesis or not (it's a very fuzzy line to draw...synthesis is a VERY broad term). What makes things profilers or not profilers is how the synthesis engine determines the transfer function to use apply to your guitar signal. AFAIK the Kemper is the ONLY unit that creates the transfer function on the fly by sampling a system for it's frequency response. I believe they even have a patent on it. It was born out of Kemper (the man's) work with modelling synthesis for keyboard systems. Dude is very smart and it's a pretty cool idea (even if I am a die hard Axe-Fx fan). Non-profilers use pre-computed transfer functions.


Okay, thanks.


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## roblopes (Apr 14, 2014)

Honestly, I'm confused too. Modelling & Profiling.
I thought that Profiling was something new, beyond Modelling, because it actually could learn nuances of a tone, capable to adjust, in a smart way, the tone depending on the input, based on various tables/matrix built during the profiling recording.
However now, it seems that modeling is the same... Is that right, or I had a misconception of profiling?!?

Cheers!


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