# les paul wiring



## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

i have a Univox les paul...older, way older model...two humbuckers, three way switch...standard stuff...

when you roll the volume completely off on the one pickup, you still get some signal...so...you have the volume up on the bridge pickup, and you are using the neck pickup and you roll the volume off, you will still get a signal coming thru...however...is the volume is already completely off for the bridge pickup, you won't get anything...and its the same vice versa...

i orignally thought i had a grounding issue, but this doesn't equate to a grounding issue in my head...does anyone have an idea?


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Sounds like the wiper on the pot is still making contact even in the off position. I don't know if you can fix the pot, or if it's even worth trying. A new pot will likely get you on your way.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

hollowbody said:


> Sounds like the wiper on the pot is still making contact even in the off position. I don't know if you can fix the pot, or if it's even worth trying. A new pot will likely get you on your way.


So...could this be called a "leaking pot" ?.....groannnnn

Good Luck with it.

Cheers

Dave


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

would pushing some compressed air or WD40 into clear it up?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

ezcomes said:


> would pushing some compressed air or WD40 into clear it up?


If hollowbody's reasoning is correct, I doubt that any form of spray will help. 

Also, IMHO, spraying a pot is a bit of a short term approach. I would just put in a new pot.

Cheers

Dave


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

If I read your post correctly that sounds like bleed through from the switch. With the switch in the neck position you shouldn't be able to get any signal from the bridge at all, and vice versa, regardless of what is going on with the pot. I would clean the contacts on the switch. It's possible there is dust in there shorting the contacts or they are just very dirty.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

J S Moore said:


> If I read your post correctly that sounds like bleed through from the switch. With the switch in the neck position you shouldn't be able to get any signal from the bridge at all, and vice versa, regardless of what is going on with the pot. I would clean the contacts on the switch. It's possible there is dust in there shorting the contacts or they are just very dirty.


Jon...wise thinking..good deductive reasoning/analysis. Why is it that it is so easy (for me at least) to forget the simple, lonely switch in the grand scheme of things....LOL.

I would add, that if the switch is the problem and is the inexpenseive type enclosed in a metal box (as compared to the open type), I would replace it with the open style. IMHO, the closed style are very poorly made and will just fail (from my experience..albeit limited).

Cheers

Dave


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

J S Moore said:


> If I read your post correctly that sounds like bleed through from the switch. With the switch in the neck position you shouldn't be able to get any signal from the bridge at all, and vice versa, regardless of what is going on with the pot. I would clean the contacts on the switch. It's possible there is dust in there shorting the contacts or they are just very dirty.


Good idea, never thought of that. I read the OP as volume coming from the neck position with the neck rolled off, not from the other pickup.

Just a thought, could this be wired like a Jazzmaster, where the volumes are independent???


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

ok...so if i were to rewire it...what would be a good way to rewire it? provide a schematic if possible...i'm a visual person!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Did you check the switch...or are you clarifying that hollowbody interpreted you correctly in the original post?

Cheers

Dave


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Here ya go ezcomes;

This pic shows you modern vs. vintage wiring:









And this one shows you independent volume:









So take a look at the orientation of your capacitors and which lug your switch is connected to and you'll see what kind of wiring you have.


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

what is the difference between independent volume and modern?

the other question is...and i know mine isn't this way...but this looks like the wire FROM the switch is getting grounded to the pot before going to the lug...that isn't right is it??


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

The switch will typically/often have a ground wire from the input jack on the guitar.

*hollowbody*...great wiring diagrams for a quick comparison...Thanks

Cheers

Dave


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

ezcomes said:


> what is the difference between independent volume and modern?
> 
> the other question is...and i know mine isn't this way...but this looks like the wire FROM the switch is getting grounded to the pot before going to the lug...that isn't right is it??


With traditional modern/vintage wiring, in the middle position with traditional wiring, both pickups will be on and only be as loud as the one that is set to the lower volume.

With independent volumes, you're blending the two pickups together in the middle position. Both pickups are on and they are both playing at their preset volumes, so if you set one pickup to a clean rhythm sound and a second for lead, in the middle position, they'll both be heard, but one will be louder. It's a jarring experience if you're not used to it and are expecting something different. 



greco said:


> *The switch will typically/often have a ground wire from the input jack on the guitar.*
> 
> *hollowbody*...great wiring diagrams for a quick comparison...Thanks
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's just an easy way to wire the switch and make the lug to ground connection all in one go and save yourself some wiring/soldering time. No worries about that, it's quite common.

Can you tell which type of wiring you have? Maybe post a pick of the control cavity of your axe?


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Also with independent wiring, it's slightly harder to do this:
[YOUTUBE]CItRrtcmMEc[/YOUTUBE]

because in the middle position, you'll still get sound, so you'd have to switch all the way over to the rhythm position to make sure the other pickup cuts out.

This isn't so much a big concern, I just wanted an excuse to post the Trews


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

can do...but now that i'm reading this, and looking at the diagram...i remember that i changed it from independant to modern...i'm 99% sure of that...i want it independant now anyways...i was going to do it tonight...but i think its veg time...i'll do it this weekend and let y'all know how it goes...

one last question...is it going to do anything if i wire a common ground to all the pots and to the guitar cable?


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

OK...so...after taking the guitar apart...and looking at the diagrams...i remembered...it was originally "modern" wired, and i changed it to "independent"...so i've started the process of reverting it back, but this time i'm gonna try the 50's wiring

i have a jay turser JT-200 les paul copy too...i took the back off of it, and it doesn't match any of the three diagrams above...the closest one i could find was this one below...the only exception was...the line that comes into the tone pot from the volume pot, and the cap on the tone pot...have switched lugs...on the JT-200 the cap is on the middle lug and grounded, and the volume line comes into the first lug...has anyone seen this before??? i'm almost thinking about changing it...


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

final outcome...

the guitar has been wired to 50's spec...and absolutely no issue so far...which leads me to think that there was a grounding issue...i also discovered that when the guitar was built, they used aluminum wiring...

the only thing i haven't been able to do is get my dirty channel to clean up by rolling off the volume...


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

ezcomes said:


> final outcome...
> 
> the guitar has been wired to 50's spec...and absolutely no issue so far...which leads me to think that there was a grounding issue...i also discovered that when the guitar was built, they used aluminum wiring...
> 
> the only thing i haven't been able to do is get my dirty channel to clean up by rolling off the volume...


Good to hear! As for cleaning up with the volume knob, that depends on your amp and guitar. Some amps just won't clean up, and the taper on some pots just doesn't do a good job of cleaning up the drive.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

ezcomes said:


> final outcome...
> 
> the guitar has been wired to 50's spec...and absolutely no issue so far...which leads me to think that there was a grounding issue...i also discovered that when the guitar was built, they used aluminum wiring...
> 
> the only thing i haven't been able to do is get my dirty channel to clean up by rolling off the volume...


If it's a distortion channel I doubt you can. But if the pots are linear then audio pots might help. There's a larger roll off up front with the taper.


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

so i'm guessing when Gordie is rolling the volume off, its either a tapered pot, OR is more power tube distortion hes getting??

[youtube]jW6rKVORjx0[/youtube]


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

ezcomes said:


> so i'm guessing when Gordie is rolling the volume off, its either a tapered pot, OR is more power tube distortion hes getting??


Probably the second. Gordie plays super loud, so his amps are usually cranked. All that overdrive you hear is natural tube overdrive. I'm pretty sure Gordie doesn't use dirt pedals, or at least not very many.

Pots make a huge difference. The CTS pot in my Esquire rolls off much faster than the RS Guitarworks superpot in my Strat. I find the RS pot to be much more useable as the CTS pots cuts volume way too fast, so it's too easy to go from lead tones to dead silence.


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