# Gear acquisition vs skills



## RickKotzen (Jan 12, 2018)

Hey guys,

I’ve been hanging out with some musicians that were bragging about how cool their gear is (boutique pedals, amps), and putting down others who can’t afford or don’t want to spend too much in gear. These people believe that tone comes more from gear than from their hands. Interestingly enough, I found that these kind of people often have very limited skills.

So, maybe buying gear is an unconscious way of excusing themselves for being a mediocre musician?!

That being said, I wondered how many times in the last year I have invested in gear rather than in my skills to become a better musician. Needless to say, I found myself looking for new gear way more than looking to learn new stuff in music.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

RickKotzen said:


> That being said, I wondered how many times in the last year I have invested in gear rather than in my skills to become a better musician. Needless to say, I found myself looking for new gear way more than looking to learn new stuff in music.


Shopping for/looking at gear is just so much easier to accomplish, can have instant gratification, etc, etc.!


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Interestingly, working musicians generally can't afford elite equipment.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Good gear does not equate to good skills and vice versa.

Those sound like shitty people...


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## RickKotzen (Jan 12, 2018)

Budda said:


> Those sound like shitty people...


Sure thing!


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

all music gear should be considered the tools needed to apply your musical trade.
I certainty dont know ab any musician worth 2 cents playing 200 dollar guitars.
Why ?....because they know that to perform to a certain level, you need the proper tools that will make it possible.
Musical instrument especially guitars are very prone to craftsmanship quality. Trying to perform with inferior tools is a hardship most musicians would rather do without.

And this is the part that I am sure will happen....someone will post a pic or video or some musician some place playing a crap guitar,
and by the fact of this one post, they will imply that its the norm....its not the norm and everyone her should know better.
G.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I don't know that they are "shitty people", just people. Humans have a persistent and all-encompassing hope that "the object endows the skills":
- a better cut of meat makes you a better cook
- a more expensive car makes you a better driver
- a high-end glove/racket makes you a better shortstop/tennis-player
- a prettier girlfriend makes you a better lover
- a snazzier rifle makes you a better hunter
- a degree from a "better" university makes you smarter
etc., etc.
There is also the converse: a bad workman always blames his tools - Wiktionary

I don't know why we should assume that tendency somehow comes up against a brick wall when it comes to musicians. That said, it's hard to drill straight holes if the chuck doesn't grip the drill bit right, and it's hard to transform an idea for a riff into a riff or solo if the action is high and the instrument won't hold intonation. Still, there is a difference between insisting on simple tool adequacy, and one-upmanship.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

The stupidest thing I think I ever heard was the guy who thought Traynor was trainer, poo-pooing my YCV50 and YCV 20 (at the time, I just have a YCV40 now) as beginner amps. Literacy wan't his strong suit.

Reminds me of this. After an outdoor gig with an acoustic folkie group ten or fifteen years ago, one of the local wannabe pickers approached me as I was packing up. He wanted to know why I didn't use my Martin anymore, saying I should stop using no name guitars and go back to a "real" guitar. At first I wasn't sure what he meant but he happily elaborated that pros like him use Martin guitars. I was amused that he considered himself a pro, but whatever, I checked my arrogance before I spoke. I explained to him that I never owned a Martin, it was a Takamine that looked like one, and that my no name guitar was made to order by a respected builder. He turned his nose up when I offered to let him try it. I'm sure he wouldn't have discerned the difference. 

I get that some people compensate for various minor personality foibles as if they drank the gear Kool-aid, but I find it more than a little weird. I would actually love a D-18 and a OO-18. Maybe someday when I qualify.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

to a point a better tool will help. Case in point. I bought a cheap Ryobi chop saw to do trim and other renos in my house. Many times I found my self adjusting angles slightly off and having to cut 2 or 3 times in order to get it right. 
My sister had me do some work in her house and I was able to borrow a very nice dewalt chop saw to cut the trim. I couldn't believe how accurate it was. I was able to get everything perfect first time. 
I am one that believes in spending a lot of money to get great instruments. I've played and owned the cheap stuff and I've owned just about every boutique and high end gear out there as well as vintage. If people are being honest they'd rather play the cream of the crop. 
Owning expensive gear has absolutely nothing to do with ratio to skill. Everytime I see someone mention it I can't believe how stupid it is.
The cost of your gear is directly related to how much you can afford to spend.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

mhammer said:


> I don't know that they are "shitty people", just people. Humans have a persistent and all-encompassing hope that "the object endows the skills":
> - a better cut of meat makes you a better cook
> - a more expensive car makes you a better driver
> - a high-end glove/racket makes you a better shortstop/tennis-player
> ...


I tend to agree with completely, except for the fact that I love good steaks and hot girlfriends.


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## iamthehub (Sep 21, 2016)

I really should spend my guitar GAS money on lessons. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

iamthehub said:


> I really should spend my guitar GAS money on lessons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Spend it on beer and food on jam nights at locals bars. You want to get good, play with those who are better than you, and steal everything you can.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

cboutilier said:


> I tend to agree with completely, except for the fact that I love good steaks and hot girlfriends.


Nothing wrong with _wanting_ more. It's just human folly to think it _makes_ you more.


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## John Fisher (Aug 6, 2017)

I need t buy shittier gear, that way I will have an excuse for my lack of talent


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

mhammer said:


> I don't know that they are "shitty people", just people.


It doesn't take much for someone to go from "person" to "shitty person" so I'm gonna stand with what I said.

I'm no exception - do 110 in the far left lane w/o heavy traffic and I flip that switch real quick. 

If someone looks down on and trash talks those who can't afford luxury items (gear, cars, appliances, electronics, whatever); they're kind of a shitty person. They can do things to make up for that (donate to charities as example) but it doesn't mean they aren't being a shitty person.

"The cost of your gear is directly related to how much you can afford to spend" - @guitarman2 I agree and would add it's also how much one wants to spend. Some guys can probably drop serious cash on their rigs and choose not to. For all we know, they have $10K in golf clubs and accessories because that's their true passion.

Judging people based on their gear is something a lot of us do, but it's wrong and we should collectively move away from doing so. I think people would have far more fun.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Budda said:


> "The cost of your gear is directly related to how much you can afford to spend" - @guitarman2 *I agree and would add it's also how much one wants to spend*. Some guys can probably drop serious cash on their rigs and choose not to. For all we know, they have $10K in golf clubs and accessories because that's their true passion.
> 
> Judging people based on their gear is something a lot of us do, but it's wrong and we should collectively move away from doing so. I think people would have far more fun.


Yes I was going to edit my post to add the point that some that can afford choose not to. After 30 years of spending ridiculous amounts of money on gear I'm at the point where I could spend for more gear and lately I've been tempted with some adds here on the buy and sell, but I've got exactly all I need. I've got 1 great acoustic and I've got all I need for my weekend gigging.


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## sillyak (Oct 22, 2016)

People either have time or money, but seldom both.

People with more money than time usually have nice gear but mediocre skills. Lots of hobby players with good day jobs are like this. There is nothing wrong with that, heck the guitar industry depends on this type. One in this situation who puts down others based on gear is an idiot though.


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## Ayr Guitars (Oct 24, 2016)

I'll be the first to admit that I own gear I am not qualified to own based on my skill. But I'm working at it. 

I'd like to think I don't dwell too much on acquiring new gear - except building it, I've spent an awful lot of time building over the years. However, that's about working on a different skill. 

Anyway, as I do get new gear (whether I buy or build), it inspires me to become a better player. And watching other guys play what I've built inspires me even more.


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## fretzel (Aug 8, 2014)

Admittedly, gear acquisition can be quite fun. It is also educational. How else will you find out what you prefer. 

I do find at times you can end up chasing your own tail. The nuances that I have tried to find at times may sound great at bedroom volume don’t always sounds as good at jam levels.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

My Japanese Fender strat cost me almost 1300 dollars as I bought it all in parts. St57 body, st57 neck, Lindy Fralin vintage hot pickups, callaham bridge, mint green accessories, shipping, customs etc... 
Some of you know I recently scored a Greco SE380, which is their bottom of the line stratocaster. It sounds so close to the Fender Strat I can barely tell the difference. The biggest difference is I realized I don't like the vintage fender radius at 7.25. . 
They sound almost identical, weigh about the same. The greco neck feels different. Most likely a flatter radius and I think it is a smidge thicker. If I could go back in time and given 8k to buy a guitar, I would use the cash for airfare to Japan and find the sweetest looking Burny Lemon drop I could find, grab a Tokai Gold Star or Springy Sound or a Greco SE800 or higher and call it a day. Bank what is left over.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

When I took my Garnet to meet its maker, Gar said: "It looks like its never been used." He was disappointed.

When I bought my second Fury, Glen said: "Some guys are getting as many as they can, to sell them later." He was scornful.

Bottom line: 

Are you using it? Yes, then you have my respect. No, then you don't. 

Just my two cents.


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## iamthehub (Sep 21, 2016)

John Fisher said:


> I need t buy shittier gear, that way I will have an excuse for my lack of talent


Rub off the fender logo on your American Strat and get a Squier water decal. If anything, nobody would steal it lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RickKotzen (Jan 12, 2018)

Don't get me wrong... if you CAN and WANT to spend thousands of dollars in gear, go for it! There's nothing wrong with it, but don't put down people who CANNOT or DON'T WANT to spend the same amount in gear. That's what shitty people do as a way of compensating their lack of skills.


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## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

At this stage of my life, I could do fine with only 5% of the gear that I own.

I had more playing technique and skill when I was younger due to years of lessons and diligence in practice.

I had shit gear, limited funds, and everything was out of reach for one reason or another. I worked with what I could afford. It was a totally different world, with limited exposure to technology, gear, and to those who could really teach. Other than AM radio and the occasional TV broadcast, perhaps records if you were so blessed to have access to; how could you really learn. Applying what I was taught in lessons was not an easy transition to playing pop music at that time.

I really feel stupid now when I turn on '50's and '60's music and jam along. Most of it requires no real talent, just a few chords, or partial chords, a few simple scales. It wasn't until the '80's, that I met up with my mentor, who could rock any piece of shit guitar. I lost at least 50 good guitar books in a flood a few years ago, that I used for going back to foundational roots of musical education. My mentor showed me how to find the bass line position by ear, translate it to a dozen plus barre chords that I was told to know/reproduce stone cold at will. His methods and knowledge of music were eye opening. He could pick up any instrument and produce something musical. His background was acquired in grade school music class teachings. He grew up in St. Kitts, and the U.S. Virgin Islands. He could not read sheet music and play like I could. He could just play the damn song, by ear. My sheet music never seemed to capture what the song really sounded like on the record. Hence, my insane tone chasing past. The blending of both traditional music upbringing and my mentors astute, real world, practical wisdom, have brought an insight and attitude to music, that I wish I cold have had earlier in life.

I just play by the seat of my pants now. Good days, bad days. Mike past away about 10 years ago to ALS, and he was my age. I fully acknowledge, that any real joy in playing music comes from what Mike gifted me with.

All the gear acquisition has been a learning experience, that had to be followed. I hope most of that is out of my system now, and hope to seriously whittle down. Too much gear has its' distractions for me, but the gear allowed the opportunity to experience what I missed, and give me the insight to move on with more confidence in my choice of musical tools.

When I run into others that I have a musical past with, it is interesting to hear how some have stayed the course with the same gear, and the others who have out spent me in every possible way in life.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Ayr Guitars said:


> I'll be the first to admit that I own gear I am not qualified to own based on my skill. But I'm working at it.


Screw that noise. You're more than qualified to own more expensive gear. This coming from a typical "lower end gear guy ". I wasn't "qualified" to own a LP Deluxe when I was 17. But I got the best guitar I could afford at the time with the idea that it would get me to my goal and last me for a long time. It has and more after (just slightly ) over 30 years. 

As to the OP, I find the type of people that put others down because of the gear they have, whether it's lower cost OR much more expensive, are a bit dickish. It does work both ways as I can't count the number of times a person with less expensive gear gives someone with mcuh more expensive gear a hard time. Often citing that they can do a better job with their lower end stuff. But typically better gear will get you the best results you are aiming for, especially as a more experienced player that knows what their sound and playing profile is all about.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Meh! Buy what you can afford, play what you've got, have fun. Don't worry about everybody else.


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## Grainslayer (Sep 26, 2016)

I spend way to much time looking/dreaming of guitars I can’t afford but I am quite happy with my old squire strat and boss pedals though.They are all I really need to have fun....But if I had the cash I’d be buying the sweet G&L hollow body telecaster currently in the classified section on here.hahaha


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

Lots of love man but I can’t help quoting this ...
“....Literacy wan't his strong suit” 

This was truly a LMAO situation. And I know you’re a literate person and this was a typo HOWEVER it is too coincidental and hilarious 

Cheers amigo 

Oh and, skills require true investment. Gear does not. It’s whatever gets you rocking. 

Japan is the next vintage craze land!!! 




Mooh said:


> The stupidest thing I think I ever heard was the guy who thought Traynor was trainer, poo-pooing my YCV50 and YCV 20 (at the time, I just have a YCV40 now) as beginner amps. Literacy wan't his strong suit.
> 
> Reminds me of this. After an outdoor gig with an acoustic folkie group ten or fifteen years ago, one of the local wannabe pickers approached me as I was packing up. He wanted to know why I didn't use my Martin anymore, saying I should stop using no name guitars and go back to a "real" guitar. At first I wasn't sure what he meant but he happily elaborated that pros like him use Martin guitars. I was amused that he considered himself a pro, but whatever, I checked my arrogance before I spoke. I explained to him that I never owned a Martin, it was a Takamine that looked like one, and that my no name guitar was made to order by a respected builder. He turned his nose up when I offered to let him try it. I'm sure he wouldn't have discerned the difference.
> 
> I get that some people compensate for various minor personality foibles as if they drank the gear Kool-aid, but I find it more than a little weird. I would actually love a D-18 and a OO-18. Maybe someday when I qualify.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

RickKotzen said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I’ve been hanging out with some musicians that were bragging about how cool their gear is (boutique pedals, amps), and putting down others who can’t afford or don’t want to spend too much in gear. These people believe that tone comes more from gear than from their hands. Interesting enough, I found that these kind of people often have very limited skills.


The only thing you have to invest to get new gear is money. If you happen to have lots of it, it is pretty easy. If you want to improve your skills you have to invest your time in something that can be extreme drudgery, discouraging and at times infuriating(at least for me). If you have lots of money you have lots of alternatives.

I wouldn't know about that lol. I have never had a lot of money, so I have never owned a bunch of boutique gear or super expensive guitars. So I guess I am one of the guys they are putting down.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Oh cool, a gear vs skill discussion. Buy what you want, play what you want. Music is supposed to be for enjoyment. I don’t have very much skill, but I sure do enjoy playing my guitars, from the most to the least expensive.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I have a beginner amp (57 Custom Champ) and a beginner guitar (2018 LP Jr.). I wish I’d had the good sense to buy these two way back about 100 years ago when I was a beginner ... lol


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## RickKotzen (Jan 12, 2018)

davetcan said:


> Meh! Buy what you can afford, play what you've got, have fun. Don't worry about everybody else.


Absolutely! Do what you want, but first and foremost, don’t be a jerk.


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## CathodeRay (Jan 12, 2018)

Quick, someone break it to Willy he needs more/better gear.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

I don’t really hang out with people like that , I believe a pro musician could take a pretty cheap guitar and amp and make it sound pretty great because of how they play.
I find myself being the only guitar player in the band , I am playing much differently then I use to, I would say I try and get the most out of the guitar on any song we decide to learn.

I remember seeing an interview with Brian May guitar tech....he said he had everything set up for a queen show and a friend of his also a pro musician, ask if he could try out Brian’s gear ..The tech said the guy plays well , but he did not sound like Brian, even using he gear...that pretty well sums up how much technique comes into playing a guitar.


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

For most of my guitar life I have played Squires. Recently I wound up with this 2010 Affinity Strat. Cost me $65 plus $6.50 for new strings. I have enjoyed hours of entertainment and instruction with this guitar.
I took the neck off. Then tuners and string trees off. Darkened the neck, buffed it smooth as glass. Oiled the fretboard, and polished the frets mirror bright. Reassembled guitar, and installed new strings. Guitar weighs 4 lbs 14 oz. Proudly listed on














Kijiji. Will repeat this process to learn more.


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## RickKotzen (Jan 12, 2018)

rhh7 said:


> For most of my guitar life I have played Squires. Recently I wound up with this 2010 Affinity Strat. Cost me $65 plus $6.50 for new strings. I have enjoyed hours of entertainment and instruction with this guitar.
> I took the neck off. Then tuners and string trees off. Darkened the neck, buffed it smooth as glass. Oiled the fretboard, and polished the frets mirror bright. Reassembled guitar, and installed new strings. Guitar weighs 4 lbs 14 oz. Proudly listed on
> View attachment 243560
> View attachment 243562
> Kijiji. Will repeat this process to learn more.


LMAO


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## losch79 (Jul 11, 2016)

What I always find interesting is when people are looking for new members in a band and the ad says "must have professional gear." When I was looking for a new band I responded to an ad and asked them what they thought professional gear was, and that was more important if the person could actually play. The response was the equipment does matter since they wanted project a certain image. I always find that odd... I'm fairly certain I could play a Jay Turser and still be able to play any given bar band song. I never understood why people would put down others because of the gear they own... perhaps they are not as fortunate as others and purchased the best thing they could. 

I'd rather have the chops to play than owning a bunch of expensive gear and not being able to play. Thankfully I'm somewhere in the middle... I think!


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

sambonee said:


> Lots of love man but I can’t help quoting this ...
> “....Literacy wan't his strong suit”
> 
> This was truly a LMAO situation. And I know you’re a literate person and this was a typo HOWEVER it is too coincidental and hilarious
> ...


My eye exam is in two weeks.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

mhammer said:


> - a prettier girlfriend makes you a better lover


Does more enthusiasm = better lover? Then yes, they do.

But (like a drag racer) does finishing the quickest = better lover? Probably not, so no they don't.

I guess it depends on your definition of 'better'?


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Dorian2 said:


> As to the OP, I find the type of people that put others down because of the gear they have, whether it's lower cost OR much more expensive, are a bit dickish. It does work both ways as I can't count the number of times a person with less expensive gear gives someone with mcuh more expensive gear a hard time. Often citing that they can do a better job with their lower end stuff. But typically better gear will get you the best results you are aiming for, especially as a more experienced player that knows what their sound and playing profile is all about.


/thread


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## PBGas (Jan 14, 2017)

Use what works for you and what you can afford. If you can afford some better gear, then all the more power to you to enjoy it. I have a friend that has several thousand dollar fishing rods but hasn't caught more than a 1.5lb bass on them. Another spends close to 5000$ in custom golf clubs and hits maybe 100 meters. It's all in perspective. 

I had some guy telling me at a gig back in December because he felt I would sound even better if I used a Les Paul instead of a strat and got a Marshall head and cab and some individual pedals. I asked him if he played live at all? His response was that he jams with some friends and they are trying to start something. 

I said, much thanks for the advice and wished him a great day and good luck. Better to be gracious and kind, I say. I don't believe in putting people down, either. Too much of that crap in the world.


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## Private Hudson (Jan 27, 2018)

Budda said:


> Good gear does not equate to good skills and vice versa.
> 
> Those sound like shitty people...


I have absolutely stellar equipment (I think) and I strive to be a mediocre player. I constantly look for new gear because it's fun and all part of the hobby at this point. If I practiced as much as I shopped and researched ... lol

I keep waiting for the following ad:

FS - 10 Years Worth of Talent - 5ķ and left nut.


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## RickKotzen (Jan 12, 2018)

Mooh said:


> The stupidest thing I think I ever heard was the guy who thought Traynor was trainer, poo-pooing my YCV50 and YCV 20 (at the time, I just have a YCV40 now) as beginner amps. Literacy wan't his strong suit.
> 
> Reminds me of this. After an outdoor gig with an acoustic folkie group ten or fifteen years ago, one of the local wannabe pickers approached me as I was packing up. He wanted to know why I didn't use my Martin anymore, saying I should stop using no name guitars and go back to a "real" guitar. At first I wasn't sure what he meant but he happily elaborated that pros like him use Martin guitars. I was amused that he considered himself a pro, but whatever, I checked my arrogance before I spoke. I explained to him that I never owned a Martin, it was a Takamine that looked like one, and that my no name guitar was made to order by a respected builder. He turned his nose up when I offered to let him try it. I'm sure he wouldn't have discerned the difference.
> 
> I get that some people compensate for various minor personality foibles as if they drank the gear Kool-aid, but I find it more than a little weird. I would actually love a D-18 and a OO-18. Maybe someday when I qualify.


LMAO! What a story man! I don't have patience with people like that anymore!

I guess this post is just me venting out!


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## StratCat (Dec 30, 2013)

Share this with them.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Whenever a subject like this comes up, it always reminds me of what Brian May accomplished with his Red Special. He does use some pedals but mostly it's with his guitar and his skills.

That said, most of us like gear and playing around with it. It can be fun, intuitive and entertaining. But putting others down, is in effect. bragging.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

losch79 said:


> What I always find interesting is when people are looking for new members in a band and the ad says "must have professional gear." When I was looking for a new band I responded to an ad and asked them what they thought professional gear was, and that was more important if the person could actually play. The response was the equipment does matter since they wanted project a certain image. I always find that odd... I'm fairly certain I could play a Jay Turser and still be able to play any given bar band song. I never understood why people would put down others because of the gear they own... perhaps they are not as fortunate as others and purchased the best thing they could.
> 
> I'd rather have the chops to play than owning a bunch of expensive gear and not being able to play. Thankfully I'm somewhere in the middle... I think!


A band I was in had a great guitar player/singer/songwriter who owned a cheap acoustic and a Line6 Spyder. We weren’t really achieving the sound we wanted and after a few gigs the other guitarist stated bringing in his Martin, and I loaned him an electric and started hauling a tube combo for him to use.

Both of us had more money to spend than he did but never held it against him. That guy had more talent and potential than either of use had and I was happy to support him just to see him grow (and to not have to listen to his Line6). I was also happy to improve the sonic production of our live shows.

Personally, I understand why a lot of bands want “pro gear”. It’s problematic when someone shows up with a guitar that won’t intonate and an amp that can’t get above the tambourine.


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## RickKotzen (Jan 12, 2018)

_Azrael said:


> Both of us had more money to spend than he did but never held it against him. That guy had more talent and potential than either of use had and I was happy to support him just to see him grow (and to not have to listen to his Line6). I was also happy to improve the sonic production of our live shows.


Great attitude man! That's what I'm talking about!


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I don’t really care if you criticize what I have because *you *don’t matter to me. I love my gear and guitars and that’s all that really matters to *me! *


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## RickKotzen (Jan 12, 2018)

Lola said:


> I don’t really care if you criticize what I have because *you *don’t matter to me. I love my gear and guitars and that’s all that really matters to *me! *


Now I'm offended! LMAO


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The second band I was in had a bass player who was fairly tone deaf, though generally not by more than a whole tone. But he owned the amps and the rosewood Tele he let me use, in addition to the van. He was also somewhat larger and stronger than the rest of us, so he could lift the amps up into the van.

Sometimes it's the little things.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

mhammer said:


> The second band I was in had a bass player who was fairly tone deaf, though generally not by more than a whole tone. But he owned the amps and the rosewood Tele he let me use, in addition to the van. He was also somewhat larger and stronger than the rest of us, so he could lift the amps up into the van.
> 
> Sometimes it's the little things.


Thanks for the chuckle.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I always laugh when I hear that way back when Rush was recording 2112 that Alex Lifeson had to borrow a stratocaser because he could not afford one. He only had the Gibson 335 at the time LOL. Their 4th Album !! That's what it's all about. Using what you can afford and having a ball doing it. Here I am with umpteen guitars and no albums


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

GTmaker said:


> all music gear should be considered the tools needed to apply your musical trade.
> I certainty dont know ab any musician worth 2 cents playing 200 dollar guitars.
> 
> Why ?....because they know that to perform to a certain level, you need the proper tools that will make it possible.
> ...


Jeff Healey used to play Squiers and Nancy Wilson (among others) plays Epiphones. An Affinity Squier in the right hands could sound amazing.



> And this is the part that I am sure will happen....someone will post a pic or video or some musician some place playing a crap guitar,
> and by the fact of this one post, they will imply that its the norm....its not the norm and everyone her should know better.
> G.



It is not one instance, it is countless instances. It is the craftsman that matters, not their tools.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

In the guitar store a year or two ago some guy was going on, and on, and on, and on about 'his tone' and how he had to have certain gear, how his amps had to be angled just so, etc. In the room was a girl who I went to high school with whose husband is the guitar player in a fairly well known Canadian band. I'm not a fan, but these guys are big enough to play stadiums. And it just so happens that my university roommate grew up with the rest of the guys in the band. Anyway, the tone expert was droning on and on and, in an attempt to prove his point, he started talking to H about the gear her husband used and how he got his tone around the house. She told him he didn't use any stage gear when practicing, and that he had Line 6 Spiders all over the house. The other idiot didn't believe her until her husband joined us in the room and told him it was true and that when he is at home practicing, he would rather spend his time improving than worrying about gear. The other guy shut up pretty quickly after that.


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

By the way, sold my Squier for $125 tonight, and it is headed for a small recording studio.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Reading this post, the moment guys compared their business cards (was it in "Pulp Fiction" ?) came to my mind.

I was grown by a poor dad who fortunately used to be the best handyman I ever met. He used to say we were too poor to buy bad tools. So I was sure that the best guitars would help my playing the most. Fortunately, money kept a ceiling over my head. I now know I was a bit naive to say the less. I also know now that big companies also produced crappy guitars ! Anyway, I finally understood I would be better investing in personal lessons than more fine guitars : Playing mid-line guitars show how skills are more important than the ax.

Sure there are guys who will just blow wind out of their mouth talking about the great guitar they bought but so what ? That's not their fault : They are just looking at music the wrong way. I did that mistake, I understand.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

colchar said:


> Jeff Healey used to play Squiers and Nancy Wilson (among others) plays Epiphones. An Affinity Squier in the right hands could sound amazing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Several years ago I had a student with a Squier Strat that he claimed had been Healey's or set up by the same guy. It had a vibrato stabilizer and several other tweaks that were way beyond stock. Pretty good axe with the upgrades.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

losch79 said:


> What I always find interesting is when people are looking for new members in a band and the ad says "must have professional gear." When I was looking for a new band I responded to an ad and asked them what they thought professional gear was, and that was more important if the person could actually play. The response was the equipment does matter since they wanted project a certain image. I always find that odd..


Why is that odd? Take my band and the revolving doors of bass players for example: so long as your bass is decent and you understand you'll use pedals for some things, we don't really care what your bass is. However if you come in with a 200W solid state bass head and a 410, we're immediately asking if you're willing to upgrade to a 500WSS/300W tube head and 810. A 410 won't keep up (a 610 won't be much use either) and the bass needs serious headroom for the loudest parts. So we ask that potential bandmates have professional gear. We don't care if you have a squier VM jazz, we care if your rig will keep up and be reliable. Things break, and for us they break at the wrong time.

Regarding "they wanted to project a certain image" - a *huge* part of the music business is branding. The look of *any* act is very much an important piece, regardless if the act themselves consider it so. It sounds to me like you replied to an ad of a working band and were surprised that they weren't interested in just anybody.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

I spend a reasonable amount on gear, I could afford to spend more. 
I'm alright at guitar, I could afford to be a lot better.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

IME playing out, the players who talk the most about how much they paid for a guitar are the ones who didn't pay much and want to convince me that their gear choice was the better one. It is always the better one - for them. My mileage usually differs. I hear a lot of "this sounds better than .....". No, you like it more but there is no universal 'better sound'. For every person that says Guitar A sounds better, there will be someone else that says Guitar B does. 

Also IME playing out, people with expensive gear don't talk a lot about how much the gear cost. They tend to let the gear do the talking --- in a good way.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

My first guitar was a $50 wonder but I loved it. Without this guitar I would not be where I am today with my playing.

Someone once told me to get a *real guitar *and I told him if he didn’t like my guitar too bad for him because this is what I can afford right now and walked away. I whispered asshole under my breath. Meanwhile he was a professional musician and a had all sorts of gear and guitars. And......that was the last lesson I ever took with this teacher. What a jerk. 

BTW I still have this $50 wonder and will never sell it or get rid of it because it means too much to me and the fun and the memories it provided me with are priceless.

Same as my first amp. A little Vox busking amp that I use at the cottage. I still love that little amp!!


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

SRV played Tokai, Carlos Santana played a Yammy, Billy Gibbons a Tokai.... Shania Twain's guitarist, Prestige Guitars Canada... the list goes on. You don't have to play a Fender or a Gibson to be famous.


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## losch79 (Jul 11, 2016)

Budda said:


> Why is that odd? Take my band and the revolving doors of bass players for example: so long as your bass is decent and you understand you'll use pedals for some things, we don't really care what your bass is. However if you come in with a 200W solid state bass head and a 410, we're immediately asking if you're willing to upgrade to a 500WSS/300W tube head and 810. A 410 won't keep up (a 610 won't be much use either) and the bass needs serious headroom for the loudest parts. So we ask that potential bandmates have professional gear. We don't care if you have a squier VM jazz, we care if your rig will keep up and be reliable. Things break, and for us they break at the wrong time.
> 
> Regarding "they wanted to project a certain image" - a *huge* part of the music business is branding. The look of *any* act is very much an important piece, regardless if the act themselves consider it so. It sounds to me like you replied to an ad of a working band and were surprised that they weren't interested in just anybody.



I agree that reliable gear is a must and you ought to have backup gear if you are going to be playing a show. When I was playing out I would always bring two heads for that very reason. I stopped playing shows in 2007 so last year when I decided I missed playing live shows it was something new to see that the first question was basically a mini version of rig rundown. I didn't recall that being the case when I was actively playing from '98 to '07. I believe the first questions should be are you able to play, keep time and are you into the music. That is what I find odd... your chops matter far more than your gear in my opinion. One of my former students is the guitar player in I'd say the most successful cover/wedding band in my area. His setup is a Tech 21 fly rig straight through the PA. That is his rig for shows, his sound is killer and he can out play most players. Would I do that, no but it works for him.

You're situation is different than most where you guys are trying to project a certain image and are actual touring musicians. But for a local cover band I don't see the need to say you must own a Gibson, Marshall etc. I'm fortunate enough to have the means to purchase what some might say is higher end gear. But I would never disqualify having someone come out because they don't have the financial ability to be able to purchase a Suhr, Anderson or a vintage Hiwatt for instance. Reliable gear is a must but outside of that I say it doesn't matter. Working on your skills and technique is more important that gear acquisition... it's just not as fun as getting that new guitar or amp.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Some cover bands play to a lot of people and have an image that they've cultivated. They may not be touring, but that doesn't mean they aren't as serious. Again, "pro gear" doesn't mean expensive just reliable.

I would argue that "ability to play our music" is kind of implied in the ads


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2019)

losch79 said:


> I always find that odd..


Way back, I answered an ad via the 'buy and sell' (showing my age here. lol).
Talked on the phone a bit. Experience, style of music, expectations etc..
Apparently, they haven't had much luck finding a second guitarist.
Agreed to an audition time and before hanging up, I was asked 'what are you bringing to play?'.
Mentioned my guitar and a 75w Marshall combo.
'Do you have anything bigger?'
'Well, yeah, a Hiwatt Custom 100 and 412 cab'.
'Bring that!'.
'Um, no. It's kinda heavy and awkward to transport'.
'I insist. We play through 100w Marshalls'.
'Cool. But this is just an audition. My 75w will cut through no prob'.
He kept on and on about image and my combo being too small, yadi yadda ..
I told him good luck in their search and hung up.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Everyone runs into something different regarding "pro" gear. I was asked not to bring a guitar to an audition for the band I joined. It was just a 1 on 1 with the singer/rhythm guitarist. He showed me the chords and the song structure, handed me the other guitar he had, and we jammed for an hour. He liked my playing and we hooked up. Easy peasy. But I totally understand having "must have pro gear" in an ad. I bought a JCM 800 head with half stack after I joined the band. It not only shows that a band is most likely setup to play, but they are also serious about the bands sound and identity. I think that in certain genres of music a specific image is a very needed commodity, depending on where you play and who you play for. I don''t think any offense is intended in those cases at all.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

It almost sounds like some of you are suggesting that people actually care about any of this. I don't like the bands I like because of what equipment they play. I like the bands I like because they play good music. What? Alex Lifeson is playing a chinese gibson??!!???? Fuck that I'm not going to the concert!!!!??? LMAO, the audience doesn't give a crap!! Only the musicians give a crap. Because they need to know how he got his tone. But the other 99.5% of the audience couldn't care less


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Putting down people because of their gear is immature, plain and simple. Reminds me of a bunch 9 year olds laughing at other kids with cheap hockey sticks. Grow up.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

I've bought way more gear then my skills justify. But even with my poor skills I can tell the good from the bad, or at least what I think it is. 

As far as bands asking that you have brand name gear, I'm gonna guess that that's just marketing. They want to be taken seriously and get paid for it.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

knight_yyz said:


> It almost sounds like some of you are suggesting that people actually care about any of this.


They do care. A paying audience expects you to stay in tune and play the right notes. A guitar that doesn't stay in tune and isn't intonated, and an amp that either can't be heard or has piercing tone isn't going to convince anyone to stick around. No one wants to watch a band tune for 20m and play for 5. Or worse yet - tune for 20 and play for 30!

The audience definitely cares about whether your gear is reliable and fitting the job or not. They just expect it because that's what they paid for (in most cases).


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

knight_yyz said:


> It almost sounds like some of you are suggesting that people actually care about any of this. I don't like the bands I like because of what equipment they play. I like the bands I like because they play good music. What? Alex Lifeson is playing a chinese gibson??!!???? Fuck that I'm not going to the concert!!!!??? LMAO, the audience doesn't give a crap!! Only the musicians give a crap. Because they need to know how he got his tone. But the other 99.5% of the audience couldn't care less


I'm watching/listening to Andy Brown play jazz, live solo. Fantastic stuff. 2M views now. YouTube recommended it because I was searching for Peavey amp videos. What??? Turns out his fantastic sound is coming out of a Peavey Special 130, an amp I just bought and what prompted my searching. In the comments no one cares, except the tube snobs right away put the Peavey down. Oh well.. I like the amp even if I can't play like Andy Brown.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

They care it is reliable, but they couldn't care less what it says on the headstock. HUGE DIFFERENCE!!

So if you went to see your favorite band and saw the lead guitarist started playing a pink hello kitty guitar, you would demand your money back? Based solely on the fact he is playing a hello kitty pink guitar. But if it said Fender or Gibson, it would be ok? 


Years ago I went to see Tom Petty at MLG. For about a half hour he was having mic troubles. Nobody left. Well, ok I wasn't watching the doors so it is possible a few may have, but by some of the stories in here, the audience should have walked out and demanded a refund! The effontry!! coming to a concert with a damaged mic!! We stuck through it and eventually the mic was changed. We didn't all boo and throw crap at the stage or walk out. I think Tom Petty was more pissed off than anyone in the audience.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

On the other hand...For several years I provided the bassist/keyboard player in one of my bands with amp and piano keys. He kept promising to get his own but never did. If he wasn't so fucking good and made us sound so good (he's a piano tuner by trade, best ear in the area) I might have bulked. Still, I wish I'd insisted on it, I hauled more than my lot too often.


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## ga20t (Jul 22, 2010)

I've owned too many vintage amplifiers in my lifetime–tweed/brown/black & silver panel Fender, early Boogie, Magnatone, Gibson, Vox, Gretsch, Marshall, blah blah blah. All tip-top and well-serviced, matched with the best speaker I could find etc. I once bought a modern PCB Fender and pawned it a week or so later, and never went that route since. It's a hobby I have—find a deal/trade, fix 'em up like they deserve to be, live with them for a while, and set them free.
Of those, my top 3 all-time favourites (and those I've kept) were purchased, altogether, for about what a single PCB, particle board and ribbon cable Fender "reissue" equivalent would set me back (buying off the shelf). I've been obsessed with this stuff for 25 years and don't relate to people who feel more money = more tone as far as amps are concerned. I just assume they're painfully noobish (yet big talkers), easily influenced by their heros/marketing and it's just not worth the effort. I just shut up and change the subject for fear of boredom.

I've never spent too much on electric guitars—probably maxed out at $2500 for vintage or used Custom Shop at my weakest—but the only guitar I've ended up playing in the long run (no plan to change) is a premium parts Jazzmaster I spec'd, shaped, finished, built and set up myself. It cost me about $950 to build when all was said and done, the Fender equivalent (and a bit of a crapshoot in terms of actually liking it) is currently ≈ $3200 and doesn't come in any colours I would want. The quality of their finishes absolutely trounces mine. But I would not make that trade.

For a while there, I plowed through some "boutique" pedals (Veblen good tax type stuff) and ended up not keeping one of them. What has stayed the longest (and will stay indefinitely) is vintage Boss stuff I got dirt cheap or in trade, a BYOC, a used Snouse, and a great new digital tremolo that was only like $149 new. I don't get the newest/rarest/most unaffordable/internet bragging rights thinking here either.

As for the basement collector/good little consumer types criticizing those without the means and those who actually have musical talent... Well, that's self-damning enough isn't it? The irony should really be evident.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

knight_yyz said:


> They care it is reliable, but they couldn't care less what it says on the headstock. HUGE DIFFERENCE!!
> 
> So if you went to see your favorite band and saw the lead guitarist started playing a pink hello kitty guitar, you would demand your money back? Based solely on the fact he is playing a hello kitty pink guitar. But if it said Fender or Gibson, it would be ok?
> 
> ...


You keep trying to change what Im saying. The audience doesnt care what the headstock says, they care that you do the job they are paying you to do. The "brand doesnt matter" thing is already well established in this thread. I said it.

Reliable gear often has a known name on the headstock or grill cloth - stop pretending it doesnt. I am not discussing brands, I am talking about tour worthy gear.

No one said they would leave a show based on brands used, but you keep bringing up that made-up example. Stop.


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## RickKotzen (Jan 12, 2018)

tomee2 said:


> In the comments no one cares, except the tube snobs right away put the Peavey down.


I don’t know why people put Peavey down. I guess they never heard about Joe Satriani and many more. Damn, it’s even made in the USA (for those who care about it). I love my old 2x12 Peavey tweed Classic 50 as much as I love my Marshall JCM!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

RickKotzen said:


> I don’t know why people put Peavey down. I guess they never heard about Joe Satriani and many more. Damn, it’s even made in the USA (for those who care about it). I love my old 2x12 Peavey tweed Classic 50 as much as I love my Marshall JCM!


Peavey, like traynor, are considered beginner by some. Whether those people choose to ignore usa peavey and vintage tube traynors remains a mystery. But it does mean a savvy buyer can assemble a real nice rig for 3 figures.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

RickKotzen said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I’ve been hanging out with some musicians that were bragging about how cool their gear is (boutique pedals, amps), and putting down others who can’t afford or don’t want to spend too much in gear. These people believe that tone comes more from gear than from their hands. Interestingly enough, I found that these kind of people often have very limited skills.
> .


I don’t know any musicians or for that matter, hobbyists that would talk like that. To borrow a tag line from a friend, “more curiosity, less judgement”.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

RickKotzen said:


> I don’t know why people put Peavey down. I guess they never heard about Joe Satriani and many more. Damn, it’s even made in the USA (for those who care about it). I love my old 2x12 Peavey tweed Classic 50 as much as I love my Marshall JCM!


I used a peavey 5150 and a 5150ii for my only amp when I was in a band that included a little bit of touring. I would have one still if I had any possible use for a 100 watt head.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Budda said:


> Peavey, like traynor, are considered beginner by some. Whether those people choose to ignore usa peavey and vintage tube traynors remains a mystery. But it does mean a savvy buyer can assemble a real nice rig for 3 figures.


Or 2! Haha $50 amp. $80 guitar. I love the guitar too and would buy a second one if I could find another.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Growing up, my understanding of “pro gear required” meant no Squier and no Crate. Basically, don’t show up with a practice amp and a Metal Zone... preferably you’ve changed your own strings before... maybe own more than one pick... and a tuner.


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## vokey design (Oct 24, 2006)

mawmow said:


> Reading this post, the moment guys compared their business cards (was it in "Pulp Fiction" ?) came to my mind.
> I.


American Psycho


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Budda said:


> You keep trying to change what Im saying. The audience doesnt care what the headstock says, they care that you do the job they are paying you to do. The "brand doesnt matter" thing is already well established in this thread. I said it.
> 
> Reliable gear often has a known name on the headstock or grill cloth - stop pretending it doesnt. I am not discussing brands, I am talking about tour worthy gear.
> 
> No one said they would leave a show based on brands used, but you keep bringing up that made-up example. Stop.


Pretty sure there have been a few posts that have mentioned, "you can't play in my band because your equipment brand name doesn't fit the bill." Yes? I'm saying the person who said that is a moron because I do not care nor does anyone really care what equipment anyone plays at a concert. And if the head of that band thinks that you have to play a Gibson or a Fender to be in his band, and he thinks it's because the audience actually gives a shit because "it is part of our image", he is a bloody moron.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Budda said:


> Some cover bands play to a lot of people and have an image that they've cultivated. They may not be touring, but that doesn't mean they aren't as serious. Again, "pro gear" doesn't mean expensive just reliable.
> 
> I would argue that "ability to play our music" is kind of implied in the ads


Some things just go without saying, like 'ability', 'interest in genre', etc.

We were looking for a drummer once and specified that they had to have their own transportation: a vehicle large enough, a valid driver's license (not one that they'll get back in 3 months), a back that can carry said equipment, etc. This was obviously because of a previous situation where the drummer expected the rest of us pick up a lot of his slack. 

But the ownership of drums and the ability to play them, interest in the genre, etc, was assumed. I think we also specified some singing ability, as that wasn't something one would assume reading the ad looking for a drummer.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Is saying "only gibson les pauls thats our image" that big a problem? Its his band and he can do whatever he wants. I think its dumb and I dont agree with it, but people are definitely allowed to set that standard.

It just drastically changes their member options.

Anyway, this disagreement is going in circles so Im out.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Budda said:


> They do care. A paying audience expects you to stay in tune and play the right notes. A guitar that doesn't stay in tune and isn't intonated, and an amp that either can't be heard or has piercing tone isn't going to convince anyone to stick around. No one wants to watch a band tune for 20m and play for 5. Or worse yet - tune for 20 and play for 30!
> 
> The audience definitely cares about whether your gear is reliable and fitting the job or not. They just expect it because that's what they paid for (in most cases).



Most people in the audience don't know and don't give a shit.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Budda said:


> Is saying "only gibson les pauls thats our image" that big a problem? Its his band and he can do whatever he wants. I think its dumb and I dont agree with it, but people are definitely allowed to set that standard.


Yes, people are allowed to be stupid.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

colchar said:


> Most people in the audience don't know and don't give a shit.


If you are talking about quality of tone, or even quality of chops, I agree. 

If you are talking about the audience listening to lots of 'the tuning song' or the band trouble-shooting some technical issues due to crappy gear instead of playing songs, I disagree. 

There is a certain level of professionalism that is expect, IME. The show must go on, but not out of tune or with a distorted, intermittently dropping out lead singer.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Who cares what make one plays as long as the abilities of that person playing whatever matches the rest of the bands talents. As long as there is cohesion then your all fine and dandy.


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## Guest (Feb 25, 2019)

Except musicians in the crowd. They tend to scrutinize every detail.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I haven't seen any posts like that in this thread @knight_yyz yyz. What I DO see is a good discussion on the merits of having more expensive gear vs less expensive gear, and what some pro level musicians require in their own or their bands circumstances to actually allow them to make money with their investment. And that swings both ways. Some people invest massive amounts of time and money into their craft both investment wise and in the time it takes to actually become a good musician. The thread is gear acquisition vs skills, but the 2 certainly are not mutually exclusive to one another. Many people require both depending on their personal situation.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

colchar said:


> Most people in the audience don't know and don't give a shit.


And the other half is either drunk or stoned. LOL


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Dorian2 said:


> I haven't seen any posts like that in this thread @knight_yyz yyz. What I DO see is a good discussion on the merits of having more expensive gear vs less expensive gear, and what some pro level musicians require in their own or their bands circumstances to actually allow them to make money with their investment. And that swings both ways. Some people invest massive amounts of time and money into their craft both investment wise and in the time it takes to actually become a good musician. The thread is gear acquisition vs skills, but the 2 certainly are not mutually exclusive to one another. Many people require both depending on their personal situation.


You missed a few posts then


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

Not sure if it's been covered here but in a slightly different take on the title of this thread. I've personally bought gear that I wasn't "ready" for from a skill perspective. I'd often find that I couldn't "bond" with it at the time but now that my skills have improved there's certain pieces of gear I've sold off that I'd like to revisit! 

None of this matters in the big picture. Like others here have said, play what you want without shame. I'm just pointing out and admitting I've acted with the notion that if I had that certain awesome piece of gear my playing would magically improve. Never worked by itself. The only advice I'd make on that when talking guitars specifically is to at least make sure whatever you have can be and is properly set up and intonated. 

"Tone" is a lifelong pursuit to most of us. Technique, knowledge, talent and skill (either hard earned or the "gifted" variety) should be the primary consideration and can't be purchased off the shelf. 
Any "good tone" that was paid for with cash will probably be lost in a haze of weak playing. Conversely a stellar skill set can overcome less than stellar tone (to a degree). I'm sure there's a "spectrum" of possibilities on this line so this isn't a definitive statement. 

I always say play the gear that makes you want to play more and learn. If it's a Squier or the finest boutique piece it ultimately doesn't matter. If you enjoy what you're doing then you're successful. If other players enjoy what you're doing you can be successful together.

Side note to the general theme being discussed here. I once went to a "jam" which included some seasoned players when I was really just getting back into playing about 10 years ago. I believe they were actually feeling out a potential band situation. I had a '74 LP going through a Line 6 Spider! The fact that I was ill prepared from a skill perspective to hang with these guys musically was obvious from my playing rather than my amp but I'll bet you anything they associated both together. I remember the "looks" I got bringing that amp into the basement. I can't say I blame them. It's an easy association to make. Even if it's wrong (it wasn't in this case) it's what people do when making decisions. Quick, often wrong but right enough of the time assessments are easy to make. Oddly enough as my skills have improved (I have a long way to go) I've also improved my amplification. 

All that's to say I'm not surprised by the "you must have professional gear" requirements often seen in ads. It's a gross generalization but it probably has bore truth often enough to those posting such requirements. It's like weeding out a pile of resumes based on one detail. You may miss out on a great player who hasn't the scratch for expensive gear but it saves you auditioning a bunch of people who simply aren't at the level you think your band or project is. Anyone who's auditioned people to be part of their project from online ads knows how arduous this task can be. Anything to narrow it down is welcome. 

Of course, that's my opinion. I could be wrong as Dennis Miller used to say.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Seems like you are painting with a wide brush.

Obviously not everyone who buys lots of high end gear is a mediocre guitarist who cares more about gear than skill.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Budda said:


> Why is that odd? Take my band and the revolving doors of bass players for example: so long as your bass is decent and you understand you'll use pedals for some things, we don't really care what your bass is. However if you come in with a 200W solid state bass head and a 410, we're immediately asking if you're willing to upgrade to a 500WSS/300W tube head and 810. A 410 won't keep up (a 610 won't be much use either) and the bass needs serious headroom for the loudest parts. So we ask that potential bandmates have professional gear. We don't care if you have a squier VM jazz, we care if your rig will keep up and be reliable. Things break, and for us they break at the wrong time.
> 
> Regarding "they wanted to project a certain image" - a *huge* part of the music business is branding. The look of *any* act is very much an important piece, regardless if the act themselves consider it so. It sounds to me like you replied to an ad of a working band and were surprised that they weren't interested in just anybody.


Yeah same here. I had a guitarist audition for my band and he was great but his amp (grey fuzzy Fender M80) just sounded horrible. I told we thought he was awesome but that he needed an amp that sounded better than the one he had. He went out and bought a Fender Twin.

I don't consider that snobby. We wanted to sound good and that amp would not have helped.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Guncho said:


> Seems like you are painting with a wide brush.
> 
> Obviously not everyone who buys lots of high end gear is a mediocre guitarist who cares more about gear than skill.


And conversely, not everyone who buys inexpensive stuff has not chops or skill.

I've never criticized someone for playing lower-end gear. I *have* called out people for ice-picking my ears at 6 feet or sounding like they are in the bottom of a well in a band environment (you know, unless of course we are all playing surf rock all night). But I've seen people do these things with low-end and high-end gear. It has more do with the nut turning the knobs than what his bank account will endure, IME.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Over the years of being the leader of various bands and having to replace members here and there, what gear someone owned was certainly an indication of how serious they were.

If two people you don't know from Adam respond to your want ad, the first has a Squier and a Fender Frontman the other has a Fender Strat and a Fender Twin, who are you going to take more seriously?


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Guncho said:


> Over the years of being the leader of various bands and having to replace members here and there, what gear someone owned was certainly an indication of how serious they were.
> 
> If two people you don't know from Adam respond to your want ad, the first has a Squier and a Fender Frontman the other has a Fender Strat and a Fender Twin, who are you going to take more seriously?


Agreed. The guy with the better gear has also probably invested more time into his craft as well. But it shouldn't necessarily exclude the Squier player. I think it should just lead to further discussion to see where he's really at. Perhaps you find a good player others overlook for the simple reason they discounted him due to his gear?

I have played with guys that made a L6 Spider sound pretty good, but they were the exception and not the rule. I even played with a guy who used the bassplayers L6 Spider and old, beat up Gibson L6 because it was more than he could afford. All he owned was a cheap acoustic with soundhole pickup, didn't drive, and barely had the proverbial pot to piss in. The lack of a driver's license was the biggest issue. But he was a good performer, if just a little out of control with certain substances.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Yes, "pro gear" is essential for gigging, but the definition of "pro gear" seems to vary widely (rightly so, depending on the gig) - and all too often doesn't seem to include things like cables, picks, etc. I used to work as a tech on a lot of corporate gigs. I couldn't believe the number of guitarists who showed up with otherwise great gear but an intermittent cable ("It will be fine... I just have to hold it like... THIS") or sometimes no pick?!?!? ("Anybody got a pick?" - fortunately it seems that most techs play guitar and have a pick or two in their pocket.)

As important as "pro gear" and "chops" are, "pro attitude" is what I look for: Show up on time, rehearsed and ready to play, with gear that works and sounds good, and leave the drama at home.


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## GetRhythm (May 18, 2012)

There is nothing wrong with wanting nice gear, but thinking it makes you a better player is wrong. Yes, to a point the quality of the instrument matters. If it is falling out of tune constantly and the amp sounds like an old AM radio speaker then obviously this is hurting your overall sound and you are probably fighting against the lousy equipment and unable to focus purely on your playing. That said, there is a point where you reach a level of quality in an instrument where going to an even higher quality instrument is mostly about vanity and simply wanting it vs it actually improving your sound or playing. Noel Gallagher toured the world playing Epiphone Sheritons and even Les Pauls. Garry Clark Jr shot to fame while playing Epiphones and Josh Homme has been known to play some pretty bargain gear too. Joe Bonamassa, Jimi Hendrix, Eddy VanHalen etc etc aren't great players because the gear made them that way, they are great because they put in the hours PRACTICING. 

I know a lot of players who would gladly spend $2,500 on another guitar but they won't spend $60 to attend a skills workshop to actually learn something new! Locally in Peterborough Rick Fines teaches a course periodically called "The Versatile Guitarist". It is a 2 full day course with food and everything (groups of 6 I believe) where Rick teaches fingerstyling etc and you get book and online content as well. I wanted to attend the first session he was holding but not enough people registered and it got pushed back to a date I couldn't attend. I really missed out on a great opportunity and was bummed that more local players didn't take up this great opportunity. I'm hoping it will come around again in the future as I know it would be well worth the money.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

How many people would employ a mechanic that only owned a pair if Vice-Grips and a flat head screwdriver?


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## Lorens Hoffos (Jan 11, 2018)

Just my 2 cents, back in the day in the mid eighties I but a swack of Japanese fenders. Some folks laughed at me and said why didn't by a real fender. Nowadays I ask them how their real fenders are lol. Its all in the eye of the beholder, you play what you play, but the attitude is what bugs me.


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

I am a Squier player, bit of a reverse snob. But I have never claimed they were equal to a MIM or USA. Truth is my Squiers get Allparts wiring kits, alnico pickups, Grover tuners. Then a professional setup, which includes fret level, crown and polish. For $500 or less, I have an instrument custom tailored to my personal tastes.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

_Azrael said:


> How many people would employ a mechanic that only owned a pair if Vice-Grips and a flat head screwdriver?


but he promises to get all the right tools from Canadian Tire as soon as they hire him


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

_Azrael said:


> How many people would employ a mechanic that only owned a pair if Vice-Grips and a flat head screwdriver?


Ok, gear acquisition skills aside, now I'm feeling insulted .. lol


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## Lagocaster (Sep 15, 2018)

Skill first and then tone tweak later!


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## sillyak (Oct 22, 2016)

_Azrael said:


> How many people would employ a mechanic that only owned a pair if Vice-Grips and a flat head screwdriver?



No one.

I work in the oil industry and we employ over 100 HD mechanics.

Lots of mechanics get judged on their tools as if they are some indicator of how skilled the mechanic is. As someone who has dealt with lots of issues and lots of mechanics, I can sure tell you that how fancy and full the Snap-On tool box is has no bearing on their skill as a mechanic. Some of the best ones have cheaper tools and some have very fancy set ups. Some of the worst have both fancy and non fancy tool sets as well.

Much like guitars and guitarists I guess.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)




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## Guest (Feb 26, 2019)

Wardo said:


> Ok, gear acquisition skills aside, now I'm feeling insulted .. lol


Toss a hammer in there and you got yourself a proper tool box, eh!?


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Adcandour said:


>


Scary thing about this is the Tone. Ooooooh that tone man. Great sound.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Toss a hammer in there and you got yourself a proper tool box, eh!?


Although some places are getting a bit image conscious and they want you to have a sawzall which I suppose they regard as an indication of commitment to the finer points of the trade.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2019)




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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

laristotle said:


>


this meme needs to be a picture of a GC member saying they’re ready to be a touring musician with a Squier and solid state Line 6 Spider


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## sillyak (Oct 22, 2016)

vadsy said:


> this meme needs to be a picture of a GC member saying they’re ready to be a touring musician with a Squier and solid state Line 6 Spider



What's funny is as a hobby only player I have several thousand into guitars. When I actually played gigs I had a cheap Indonesian Jackson and a 125 watt Line 6 spider II.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

sillyak said:


> What's funny is as a hobby only player I have several thousand into guitars. When I actually played gigs I had a cheap Indonesian Jackson and a 125 watt Line 6 spider II.


well that probably makes it ok, I’m sure you sounded great and we’re taken seriously


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Adcandour said:


>


WTF man, I didn’t know you were filming me!


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

vokey design said:


> American Psycho


Howsa bouta little CanCon?


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

rhh7 said:


> I am a Squier player, bit of a reverse snob. But I have never claimed they were equal to a MIM or USA. Truth is my Squiers get Allparts wiring kits, alnico pickups, Grover tuners. Then a professional setup, which includes fret level, crown and polish. For $500 or less, I have an instrument custom tailored to my personal tastes.


IMHO that's a great way to go, whether it's a Squier, a MIM Strat or a Les Paul Standard. Get it set up right, either yourself or from a trusted tech.
I had to rebuild the wiring in my cheap peavey. New pots, switch and jack. Nut slots were terrible. I disassembled the tuners and tweaked them to work better, ie I bent the housings so the gears actually meshed properly, then oiled them. The cheap bridge is blocked down. The saddles are ok but got polished where the strings contact them...
You get the point... these cheap guitars can take a bit to a lot of effort to get set up to where a pro could take it on stage and play for 4 hours nonstop.
A more expensive brand name guitar should get the same treatment but need far less work. When I got my Strat, which I bought wayyyy before my skills justified it and still cant really say I need or deserve it... it needed new strings, and pickup heights adjusted. Done. Kind of a boring guitar to buy actually, because I like messing with them too much. Fun to play though which is good.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

GetRhythm said:


> There is nothing wrong with wanting nice gear, but thinking it makes you a better player is wrong. Yes, to a point the quality of the instrument matters. ......
> Snip.....
> I know a lot of players who would gladly spend $2,500 on another guitar but they won't spend $60 to attend a skills workshop to actually learn something.....


It took me awhile, but I now pay for lessons, it'll be about $1300 this year. A friend keeps pointing out great deals on kijiji for R8s and CS Strats and I'm just not there... I know I'm better off getting 3 more years of lessons then I am buying a $4000 guitar. I think my teacher is better off too for that matter..


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## RickKotzen (Jan 12, 2018)

GetRhythm said:


> I know a lot of players who would gladly spend $2,500 on another guitar but they won't spend $60 to attend a skills workshop to actually learn something new!


This! What drives me crazy is when these guys talk like “pros” because somehow they feel like they’re allowed to just because they own pro (expensive/boutique) gear. I know a guy that has probably 2K$ in his pedalboard who isn’t able to play more than a few chords and acts like a rockstar. 

Funny story... this same guy once got in trouble trying to figure out a jazz song, due to the “complex chords”. So, while he was playing, I could hear him saying: - Damn, I hate jazz! That was my moment of satisfaction!


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

RickKotzen said:


> I could hear him saying: - Damn, I hate jazz!


totally normal thing,., as proven by this clip, even God hates jazz


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## John Fisher (Aug 6, 2017)

I bought a Peavey Spyder for 50 bucks. It is in the sun room, so if I dont want to drag myself downstairs and power everything up I can just play around. Best 50 bucks I ever spent, plus I play more because it is a faster plug and play system for me


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## Michael Baker (Jan 23, 2019)

As a player for almost 50 (gasp) years I have never had time for so-called musicians who have more money than talent.
Or are slaves to the latest "in" product or gadget. Or "famous names" instruments (why is Gibbon's Les Paul more than Lifeson's)
If you look at the history of any respected and acknowledged player, they all started on inexpensive (sometimes cheap) instruments and amps.
And changing tastes come and go - I still can't get over that Fender released "Silverfaced" amps as classics. even back in the dim past owning a "CBS" Fender amp was a real faux pas. My first amp was a Silvertone - apologetically a tube amp. Brian May still has the homemade guitar he has always had. The Edge played Danelectro, Jack White with Res-o-Glass Airlines, guitars that hung for years in pawnshops are now desired collectibles. But they were cheap until recently - even Les Pauls were cheap at one time.
Don't scrimp on your main tools. While there are some good inexpensive guitars and amps, it is worth the cost to go up to a better guitar if you can. It will help you in the long run.
By a nice simple amp, used is good. Buy a single channel if you can bet a better build. (While Deluxe Reverbs are nice - a Princeton gets you 90%)
Some of the best guitarist never had a pedalboard, maybe a wah and a fuzz/drive. 
I always agreed with 'simple is better."
And enjoy. I haven't been in a regular band for sometime yet I still try new songs and still learn. It isn't about what you have, it is about what you do with what you have. I'd love to own a Porsche 912 but I don't. I'd love to own a Gibson L-5 or Super 400, but I can't justify that cost. I play with a group of musicians and all of us have wonderful instruments. Some are vintage, others newer. But it is always about the music.
Long post but it comes down to what you like, what you enjoy. It gets complicated if you work for money, but essentially it is your skill that uses your tools.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

RickKotzen said:


> This! What drives me crazy is when these guys talk like “pros” because somehow they feel like they’re allowed to just because they own pro (expensive/boutique) gear. I know a guy that has probably 2K$ in his pedalboard who isn’t able to play more than a few chords and acts like a rockstar.
> 
> Funny story... this same guy once got in trouble trying to figure out a jazz song, due to the “complex chords”. So, while he was playing, I could hear him saying: - Damn, I hate jazz! That was my moment of satisfaction!


To be entirely fair, there are real actual rock stars who can only play a handful of chords.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Budda said:


> To be entirely fair, there are real actual rock stars who can only play a handful of chords.


Just like me


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## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

One of the best players that I ever played with used to use a plastic bread tie as a pick and an old and cheap radio shack cable. We used to joke around about it, but nobody was complaining. I currently own boutique stuff, but I'm sure I'd get the same amount of enjoyment from less expensive gear if that's all I could afford.

Gear classism is just silly.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Scottone said:


> Gear classism is just silly.


Quoted for truth.


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2019)




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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

laristotle said:


>


Is that @greco 's house?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

davetcan said:


> Is that @greco 's house?


Nope, not mine. I have solid state with the only one effect built in...reverb.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

greco said:


> Nope, not mine. I have solid state with the only one effect built in...reverb.


Well it's not mine, I only have high end cats now.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

davetcan said:


> Well it's not mine, I only have high end cats now.


Did the previous cats gradually go deaf? (touché)


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

greco said:


> Did the previous cats gradually go deaf? (touché)


If they did they never mentioned it. The fact that they would run out of the room as soon as I started playing something led me to believe they not only had good hearing but also good taste.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Gear is important. Being able to play is important. Both to the level of what you're doing. If you're jamming with a few buds then all you need is enough to be heard and a few beers. If you expect people to pay for your services then you better look and sound the part. If you're the Who, or Zep or AC/DC you need a wall of cabs. If you're Paul McCartney you need to play the very first cheap-assed bass you ever bought - because that's what's expected. If you just paid 300 buckes to see the Eagles you're not gonna sit patiently while they make some false starts or fix a broken string.


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## Ronbeast (Nov 11, 2008)

RickKotzen said:


> This! What drives me crazy is when these guys talk like “pros” because somehow they feel like they’re allowed to just because they own pro (expensive/boutique) gear. I know a guy that has probably 2K$ in his pedalboard who isn’t able to play more than a few chords and acts like a rockstar.
> 
> Funny story... this same guy once got in trouble trying to figure out a jazz song, due to the “complex chords”. So, while he was playing, I could hear him saying: - Damn, I hate jazz! That was my moment of satisfaction!


This is exactly 100% the reason that I’ve stopped reading online reviews and mostly tune out any suggestions and recommendations on forums. I really wish it weren’t the case, but today it’s impossible to tell if the guy on the other side of the wire is a 40 year touring musician, or some guy who took out another mortgage to buy gear and look cool on the internet.

I realized gear acquisition was seriously stunting my musicality and I felt like I hit a brick wall, so I sold 5 guitars and an amp so far this year, with a few basses and amps left to hit the chopping block. My electrics range from $200 to $2000, and I’ll grab whatever suits me at the time; the price is irrelevant. I actually end up playing my $200 strat most of the time, because it’s the first electric I ever owned and it’s a reliable player.

As for being turned away from a band for not having professional gear, you will never work for Lenny Kravitz as a bass player, unless you play a Fender Jazz or Precision bass.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

davetcan said:


> If they did they never mentioned it. The fact that they would run out of the room as soon as I started playing something led me to believe they not only had good hearing but also good taste.


I used to have a miniature Yorkie that would sleep inside the case whenever I played in the living room. My amps back then were a RI 59 Bassman & 50W JCM800 212 combo, so I think she may have developed tinnitus, which explains why she didn’t leave the room.....and that soft fuzzy orange fur was so comfy....


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

davetcan said:


> If they did they never mentioned it. The fact that they would run out of the room as soon as I started playing something led me to believe they not only had good hearing but also good taste.


LOL

I bet they still heard the can opener.

In fact, you'd confuse the hell out of 'em if you could somehow make can opener noises with your guitar. They wouldn't know whether they should stay or go when you plugged in.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> LOL
> 
> I bet they still heard the can opener.
> 
> In fact, you'd confuse the hell out of 'em if you could somehow make can opener noises with your guitar. They wouldn't know whether they should stay or go when you plugged in.


Food would win every time  I'd get mauled if the guitar sounded like a treat packet being opened.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

Who cares. Everyone is different. I used to be a stereo snob. I mean, I was atrocious. I had years of house payments tied up in fancy gear. Then I went to school for engineering and it ruined me. Electrons are electrons, for the most part they don't care about the style of copper they are moving in. Its all Bulls**t. Now I have dialed it back to some cool vintage amps, not expensive really, and moderate speakers. Still a f**kn waste as I listen to a BT speaker 99% of the time.

Music gear wise, I have kinda maxed out for the moment. I play a couple nice electrics that I am happy to own. I had an original DR that I sold to buy a reissue and kept the extra $$. I sold that to buy a 68 PRRI. I have hand built guitars both electric and acoustic. My job affords me those luxuries. I am happy that I work hard and have time to practice. And practice I do. At least 1 hour a day, usually more. Kids are asleep, wifes in tub and even if I don't want to I end up in my studio - I already recognize that I will never be a pro. I'm too old to be a rock star. I will never play jazz again because I will never be good enough to play with others that want to play jazz. That's the rub, playing with people is the best part of music, and you have to go where the other people are at (or around) your skill level, so I butcher rock tunes daily. And I do it on great gear. And, I no longer care what people think.

That has freed me as a 'musician' more than anything. I just don't care anymore. Play what you want. But seriously, don't hate me because I play the nicest R8 you have seen though a vintage Gibson GA5T, but cant play a single Jimmy Page lick. I'm just an amateur like everyone else.

C


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## vokey design (Oct 24, 2006)

Stop worrying about other others gear and have fun with your own instrument. If Joe Blow wants to spend HIS OWN MONEY one nice gear, then that's his decision. I really don't get what all the fuss is here. Can someone learning to cook not own a nice stove? How about that 28 Handicapper on the golf course, can he not own name brand clubs?

Worry about yourselves people and be kind to each other.

Also here is an overweight unicorn dabbing


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Reminds me of the car threads.

Which is to say, classism is dumb yet to some extent we are all guilty.


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

If I had spent all the time I spent reading Guitar Player practicing, I would be a better player. No I don't read GP anymore, but I frequent htis and other forums. What can ya do


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## dleake (Aug 8, 2014)

This video puts things into perspective. Nobody is better than Jack. Nobody, based on skill, deserves to play amazing gear more than Jack (But I'd still rather see him playing vintage Fenders and Gibsons. Because I'm a snob.)


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

dleake said:


> This video puts things into perspective. Nobody is better than Jack. Nobody, based on skill, deserves to play amazing gear more than Jack (But I'd still rather see him playing vintage Fenders and Gibsons. Because I'm a snob.)


And yet the blues lawyers on TGP insist you can't make music on anything that costs under $5000


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

^^ HA! I used to be a super active member there, but just couldn't handle it anymore. You think they are bad with blues guitars, tell them you want to play jazz on a cheap guitar. Duck and cover!

You cant ask a question without people telling you "its not possible because you are playing a garbage guitar".

Huh? Me says what? its a Historic Gibson!? TGP - yeah but you haven't sent it out for a historic re-carve yet. And we are pretty sure that screw on the pick guard isn't countersunk enough - so throw it out and buy a real guitar.

No way to win anything over there anymore. Funny story, I was (am) a huge Trey Anastasio fan. About a decade ago I kicked around the idea of getting a Languedoc. Then my wife kicked around the idea of kicking me out of the house. The reality is that it was (at the time) a 7500$ USD guitar, now its 15k USD, which is completely unreasonable to me. I did my research and settled on getting a Treyish copy, or Langue-knock (off). I took hours of my time (certainly over a hundred) to document the process, just so others could see how it went, what the builder was like, what the end product was like, etc.

Members actually sent me nasty messages about getting a fake guitar and how I shouldn't be allowed to own it, as I am supporting, essentially, a plagiarist. I made this just to try and lighten the mood over there. I got more nasty messages.. There is some NSFW language in this.






Also, after more than a decade of reflection, I'm glad I didn't buy that Languedoc.. You don't really want to be the dog drooling at the feet of your hero's do you? I mean, rule 1, act like you have been there before. Right?
/Rant off.
C


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

Cardamonfrost said:


> ^^ HA! I used to be a super active member there, but just couldn't handle it anymore. You think they are bad with blues guitars, tell them you want to play jazz on a cheap guitar. Duck and cover!
> 
> You cant ask a question without people telling you "its not possible because you are playing a garbage guitar".
> 
> ...


Ha! I was told my Monoprice amp is "disposable", despite the fact I have done multiple gigs with it in this brutal winter. One guy said "I wish people wouldn't encourage these things" like it's some kind of nasty disease, or something.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

Cardamonfrost said:


> ^^ HA! I used to be a super active member there, but just couldn't handle it anymore. You think they are bad with blues guitars, tell them you want to play jazz on a cheap guitar. Duck and cover!
> 
> You cant ask a question without people telling you "its not possible because you are playing a garbage guitar".
> 
> ...


Trey Anastasio kicks ass!! you going to see him in TO this summer?


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

keefsdad said:


> Ha! I was told my Monoprice amp is "disposable", despite the fact I have done multiple gigs with it in this brutal winter. One guy said "I wish people wouldn't encourage these things" like it's some kind of nasty disease, or something.


anybody that makes such comments is just stupid poser that has nothing to do with the music... I hate those a$$holes so much... idiots


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## Ronbeast (Nov 11, 2008)

I’ve only been on TGP for a few months, but I like it for the comedic value. You can tell that there are a lot of people on there who spout off with authority, while it’s easy to read between the lines and see it’s just another schmuck trying to justify his purchases to himself and those around them.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

bolero said:


> Trey Anastasio kicks ass!! you going to see him in TO this summer?


Absolutely!! Cant miss the Canadian shows.
C


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## sillyak (Oct 22, 2016)

keefsdad said:


> And yet the blues lawyers on TGP insist you can't make music on anything that costs under $5000



I'm currently in Nashville. Saw Jack play live last night at The Sation Inn. What a show!!!

He used a Squier Strat, Squire Tele, Epiphone Flying V and some old cheap looking bolt on neck guitar for his electric set. He was using an expensive amp though and sounded fantastic. That guy can play!


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

But but but but but HOW will you get that Dumble tone?!?


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Roryfan said:


> But but but but but HOW will you get that Dumble tone?!?


Skill.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


> Skill.


or a Dumble,., possibly a clone variant of one


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Cardamonfrost said:


> I play the nicest R8 you have seen


Mine is nicer


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Michael Baker said:


> As a player for almost 50 (gasp) years I have never had time for so-called musicians who have more money than talent.


So you hate me then  That being said, I don't pretend to have talent because I know that I am nothing more than a bedroom hack. But I have nice gear (AC15, JCM800 2203, Yamaha LL6, partscaster tele, ES-335, and R8) because I can afford it.




> (While Deluxe Reverbs are nice - a Princeton gets you 90%)


If only Princetons had 12" speakers.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

davetcan said:


> Well it's not mine, I only have high end cats now.



So what you're saying is that you've graduated to high end pussy?


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Hamstrung said:


> talent and skill (either hard earned or the "gifted" variety) should be the primary consideration and can't be purchased



Well that's me right fucked then.....................


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

I'd love to see how those guys who claim you must have 'pro' gear would react if this guy showed up with one of his Epis. Bet they'd shut the fuck up as soon as he started playing!


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

lol


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

colchar said:


> I'd love to see how those guys who claim you must have 'pro' gear would react if this guy showed up with one of his Epis. Bet they'd shut the fuck up as soon as he started playing!


Curiously, he made his name with that Epi but I've seen him in a couple of things this year (SNL and some Howard Stern thing) and he's playing Gibsons now (Flying V and SG). Things that make me go: hmmmm .............


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

colchar said:


> I'd love to see how those guys who claim you must have 'pro' gear would react if this guy showed up with one of his Epis. Bet they'd shut the fuck up as soon as he started playing!


No, they wouldnt.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

colchar said:


> I'd love to see how those guys who claim you must have 'pro' gear would react if this guy showed up with one of his Epis. Bet they'd shut the fuck up as soon as he started playing!


So, what you’re saying that Epi is crap and it takes this level of talant to make it sound good?


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

_Azrael said:


> So, what you’re saying that Epi is crap and it takes this level of talant to make it sound good?



Not in the least. I am saying that others would take that attitude.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Curiously, he made his name with that Epi but I've seen him in a couple of things this year (SNL and some Howard Stern thing) and he's playing Gibsons now (Flying V and SG). Things that make me go: hmmmm .............



Probably an endorsement deal.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Budda said:


> No, they wouldnt.



Yeah maybe not.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

colchar said:


> Probably an endorsement deal.


Maybe. I thought it was cooled that he played that Epi. It looked like he'd had it for years and made his bones with it. 

But money and fame do funny things to people - and I think he's got his fair share of both now. With money, he can buy all the guitars he dreamed about as a young man (like a lot of us do). With fame, he may have companies throwing good gear at him. A nice place to be, either way. And good for him.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Maybe. I thought it was cooled that he played that Epi. It looked like he'd had it for years and made his bones with it.
> 
> But money and fame do funny things to people - and I think he's got his fair share of both now. With money, he can buy all the guitars he dreamed about as a young man (like a lot of us do). With fame, he may have companies throwing good gear at him. A nice place to be, either way. And good for him.



I figure Gibson offered him a deal, especially after his Grammy win, and said they wanted it to be with Gibson not Epi. If I was him I probably would've gone along with it too.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

colchar said:


> I figure Gibson offered him a deal, especially after his Grammy win, and said they wanted it to be with Gibson not Epi. If I was him I probably would've gone along with it too.


you figured wrong


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> Curiously, he made his name with that Epi but I've seen him in a couple of things this year (SNL and some Howard Stern thing) and he's playing Gibsons now (Flying V and SG). Things that make me go: hmmmm .............


He has a signature Gibson....


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

TDeneka said:


> He has a signature Gibson....


exactly, multiple years and models now. before that it was Epi. and doubtful this is a guy that plays any of those ‘entry level’ guitars all stock


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

It's not a blues guitar if you bought it with your gold card. ;-)


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## John Reilly (Apr 7, 2018)

If a guitar plays well , stays in tune , has the tone you like with your amp , and it`s loud enough for your needs ,( to me) it doesn't matter who made it . Cheaper the better . If it looks good ,bonus .


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

colchar said:


> If only Princetons had 12" speakers.


That's an easy mod and well worth the trouble.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

davetcan said:


> That's an easy mod and well worth the trouble.


I am considering doing this to my 68 CPRRI. I have a Warehouse G10 that I am going to try first, but if that doesn't give satisfying results, I will make a new baffle and go 12.

The stock speaker has way too much looseness in the low end. I like the 68 vs 65 because of the way it breaks up, but, particularly when there are 2 guitars plugged into it, it can be very flabby in the low end when you get past 5 on the vol.

C


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Cardamonfrost said:


> I am considering doing this to my 68 CPRRI. I have a Warehouse G10 that I am going to try first, but if that doesn't give satisfying results, I will make a new baffle and go 12.
> 
> The stock speaker has way too much looseness in the low end. I like the 68 vs 65 because of the way it breaks up, but, particularly when there are 2 guitars plugged into it, it can be very flabby in the low end when you get past 5 on the vol.
> 
> C


I've never met a 10" speaker that i liked


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