# Can we please lose the personal attacks?



## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Lately every post degenerates into personal attacks. It is getting very boring. It is causing me to peruse other forums. If some one says something you disagree with one post saying you disagree and why should be enough. If someone continually bugs you just don’t answer them and they will quit bugging you. I have no problem with hijacking threads with humorous posts but back and forth nitpicking needs to stop, please! This is a guitar forum. If you want argue Facebook is a better choice. Thanks.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Well, this'll be interesting.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

That's why I gave up Facebook, and I don't miss it one bit.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I'll fight ya.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

The Open Mic should be "Closed"', perhaps. 

I don't really know what you are referring to, KB, because my participation has dropped. Good principle, tho'.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

keto said:


> Well, this'll be interesting.


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

Kerry Brown said:


> Lately every post degenerates into personal attacks. It is getting very boring. It is causing me to peruse other forums. If some one says something you disagree with one post saying you disagree and why should be enough. If someone continually bugs you just don’t answer them and they will quit bugging you. I have no problem with hijacking threads with humorous posts but back and forth nitpicking needs to stop, please! This is a guitar forum. If you want argue Facebook is a better choice. Thanks.


Well that's just rediculus!

Only a buffoon would say something like this!


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Are there any caveats? I mean if I can’t chuck shit at @Adcandour and @Steadfastly i don’t wanna be here anymore!


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Facebook is a worse choice to be honest, always showing the discussion on everyone’s timeline trying to lure more people into the argument. 

I feel like there’s a group of 20-30 open mic regs and some are visibly sick of each other’s input. Forum sites need a revolving door of contributing members, we’re pretty stale here. Not that it’s an unwelcoming community, but I think a couple sponsored ads would go a long way to filling in the ranks.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I mean its the internet, it wont go away.

Recommendation to *all* members: go play more guitar, spend less time on here.


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Budda said:


> I mean its the internet, it wont go away.
> 
> Recommendation to *all* members: go play more guitar, spend less time on here.


“Forget all about that macho shit and learn how to play guitar”

-JCM


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Weird I always think Facebook is where people argue and that everyone is pretty nice here.

Some people just can't handle someone having a different opinion than they do in a respectful way.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

This place is pretty easy going compared to a lot of the car boards that I've been on; some of them were calling each other out as in "meet me at Sherway Gardens in the Sears parking lot if you want back up your words." Oh wait, that was me .. lol


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

KapnKrunch said:


> The Open Mic should be "Closed"', perhaps.
> 
> I don't really know what you are referring to, KB, because my participation has dropped. Good principle, tho'.


The open mic forum is the best thing about this place. Maybe just put it on your ignore list and you’ll sleep better?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Kerry Brown said:


> Lately every post degenerates into personal attacks. It is getting very boring. It is causing me to peruse other forums. If some one says something you disagree with one post saying you disagree and why should be enough. If someone continually bugs you just don’t answer them and they will quit bugging you. I have no problem with hijacking threads with humorous posts but back and forth nitpicking needs to stop, please! This is a guitar forum. If you want argue Facebook is a better choice. Thanks.


I don’t know what you mean. Perhaps a few Examples will jog my memory


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Also, some things are said in the knowledge that they will not be seen by certain member.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> This place is pretty easy going compared to a lot of the car boards that I've been on; some of them were calling each other out as in "meet me at Sherway Gardens in the Sears parking lot if you want back up your words." Oh wait, that was me .. lol


There's a couple of Harley sites that are just as bad if not worse than the car ones. They will come looking for you and they will find you.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Pretty much anyone who ever took Psychology 100 watched the Stanley Milgram film "Obedience to authority". In the late 1950's and early 1960's, Yale psychologist Stanley Milgram wanted to demonstrate that even supposedly civilized and decent people would do terrible things if the circumstances were appropriately engineered; I.E., there was nothing special or distinctive about the enemies the U.S. had fought in WWII, as _people_. The circumstances were just engineered appropriately.

He constructed a scenario in which volunteers thought they were participating in a study of the effects of punishment on learning and memory. Each volunteer was explained the purpose of the study along with another individual they were led to believe was a volunteer just like them. The researcher had slips of paper marked "teacher" and"learner" in a hat and supposedly drew them out randomly to assign roles, except that it wasn't random. Unbeknownst to the volunteer, the researcher's helper was always the "learner".

The learner went into another room, and the teacher was instructed to read lists of words into a mic, that the learner was supposed to memorize. If they made a mistake or didn't remember words said to them, the "teacher" was instructed to administer shock to them. There was an apparatus in front of them with a bank of switches, labelled with increasingly higher voltages. The learner wasn't actually getting shocked, but played a prerecorded tape that indicated sounds of pain and vigorous objections as the shock level kept going up. The only pressure applied to the "teachers" when they objected or resisted applying shocks was phrases like "The experiment requires that you continue". I'll let the video continue with the explanation. But the punchline is that a surprisingly large percentage of volunteers went all the way into the 400 volt range, even though the learner had indicated at the outset that they had "a heart condition" and eventually stopping making any sounds or responding.

What is never included in the video shown to undergrads or high school students, but is included in his book, is that Milgram conducted an extensive number of additional studies that replicated the same basic scenario but varied the physical circumstances. In particular, he had the learner seated in the same room as the teacher, farther away, and closer. The closer the learner was to the teacher, the less willing they were to proceed to the sorts of shock levels they administered when they couldn't see the learner at all. Knowing and seeing your victim makes a big difference in willingness to do wrong.

And that, my friend, is the internet. We are content to administer shocks to people we can't see, don't know, and can't interact with. In our daily lives, we are better than that, but the anonymity and invisibility gives us the freedom to do shameful things.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

So boring


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Kerry Brown said:


> I have no problem with hijacking threads with humorous posts but back and forth nitpicking needs to stop, please!
> This is a guitar forum. If you want argue Facebook is a better choice.


Technically, no. The 'open mic' forum is a free-for-all, with manners. There is the 'report' option for those that do get out of hand and are dealt with accordingly.
Having said that, there are times when a poster does deserve a slap to the head.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Kindly remember:

the ridiculous hype

that offends so many

is not of my making.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Having said that, there are times when a poster does deserve a slap to the head.


I got booted from The Acoustic Guitar Forum for saying that James Taylor's tuning video was boring as hell but more interesting than his music. 

Fine upstanding place that Acoustic Guitar Forum ... lol


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## nbs2005 (Mar 21, 2018)

Wardo said:


> I got booted from The Acoustic Guitar Forum for saying that James Taylor's tuning video was boring as hell but more interesting than his music.
> 
> Fine upstanding place that Acoustic Guitar Forum ... lol


Gold Sir, pure gold!


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Wardo said:


> I got booted from The Acoustic Guitar Forum for saying that James Taylor's tuning video was boring as hell but more interesting than his music.
> 
> Fine upstanding place that Acoustic Guitar Forum ... lol


I got kicked out of The Gear Page when I posted on a thread about who should be the next CEO of Gibson. 

I said "Donald Trump. Make Gibson great again."

Yerrrrrroooouuuuut!


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Wardo said:


> I got booted from The Acoustic Guitar Forum for saying that James Taylor's tuning video was boring as hell but more interesting than his music.
> 
> Fine upstanding place that Acoustic Guitar Forum ... lol


I haven't seen his tuning video, but you could be right.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Kerry Brown said:


> Lately every post degenerates into personal attacks. It is getting very boring. It is causing me to peruse other forums. If some one says something you disagree with one post saying you disagree and why should be enough. If someone continually bugs you just don’t answer them and they will quit bugging you. I have no problem with hijacking threads with humorous posts but back and forth nitpicking needs to stop, please! This is a guitar forum. If you want argue Facebook is a better choice. Thanks.


The entire board has been taken over by a small group of posters who have transformed this place into a mean spirited forum for their rants. Personal attacks and political derision abound. So many members seem to have left or have become inactive. With the sale of the board, moderation basically vanished and this place changed for the worst. I find myself spending less and less time participating here outside of the classifieds. Since nothing I post ever seems to sell here, I am starting to move on in general.

TG


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> The entire board has been taken over by a small group of posters who have transformed this place into a mean spirited forum for their rants. Personal attacks and political derision abound. So many members seem to have left or have become inactive. With the sale of the board, moderation basically vanished and this place changed for the worst. I find myself spending less and less time participating here outside of the classifieds. Since nothing I post ever seems to sell here, I am starting to move on in general.
> 
> TG


I wasn't going to post because no one gives a crap, but this is exactly why I have been inactive for a bit. There's humourous posts and ballbusting, and then there is just lacking empathy and being dicks. Things have slipped much more to the latter.

Political jabs slip their way into posts that have no need for it. This place was toxic during the last election. Older members constantly crap all over younger members opinions or issues they care about just because of ageism. There's less and less empathy and more negativity. At 43, I am just old enough that I can still relate to people younger than me and have younger friends. This forum at times is the absolute perfect example of how a saying like "ok boomer" even came to exist. This dismissive attitudes can be brutal on here at times.

Ya other forums can be like this. But this one was just never that bad, and it's actually gotten to be worse than other forums some certain things. People at least showed more respect for each other at one point.

I hesitate to even comment because it will just get crapped on or accused of being a whiner. But I have been here as long as anyone, so I'll say my 2 cents I guess. I've just gone back to sticking to the for sale sections, which is what I am pretty sure a few long time members have done.

Edit: just because we have open mic and political forums, it doesn't mean people have to be complete dicks to others in them.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

I’ve ignored the right people I guess. I haven’t noticed it. 

an unchecked lack of character will always seep out of the host. Eventually. Especially as @mhammer posted, when not seeing the effects of the character flaws (which we all have. But some choose to cultivate theirs. )


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Sounds like more people need to take my advice.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Exactly! Well said. For a time I tried to counter the negativity, bs, and attacks but quickly learned nobody was interested in actual discussion. Bullying and herd mentality continued and the good old 'moving target' was in full effect (counter claims and show them as false or problematic and your points are unacknowledged as 10 new claims appear).
Perhaps the worst: a bizarre appeal to free speech spun as the juvenile 'no likey no clicky.' The request to stay on topic (to discuss guitars on a guitar forum!) is not an infringement of your rights! 

I am a bit older than you but I am constantly interacting with younger people (job related). I know exactly what you mean about the dismissiveness here. 

Thanks for responding. I'm sure this post will be targeted but I'm glad to know that others are seeing the same thing here. 



torndownunit said:


> I wasn't going to post because no one gives a crap, but this is exactly why I have been inactive for a bit. There's humourous posts and ballbusting, and then there is just lacking empathy and being dicks. Things have slipped much more to the latter.
> 
> Political jabs slip their way into posts that have no need for it. This place was toxic during the last election. Older members constantly crap all over younger members opinions or issues they care about just because of ageism. There's less and less empathy and more negativity. At 43, I am just old enough that I can still relate to people younger than me and have younger friends. This forum at times is the absolute perfect example of how a saying like "ok boomer" even came to exist. This dismissive attitudes can be brutal on here at times.
> 
> ...


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

I never joined bookface because of what it is and how it's moderated, this is Big Brother and social modelling!

I have not been on here long and found out about it from google boxing everything guitar related, kept popping up at the top of every question.

I was initially impressed with the level of knowledge and respect, I too have seen the respect aspect going downhill.

Life without different opinions and debating discussion is stale, Kerry is just asking for everyone to be civil about it in my opinion .


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

There have been some great posts here for both sides and I may say that surprises me in some ways. And I will also say that if I have contributed in a bad way well I would like to apologize to anyone who may have taken offence to any of my posts.
There are many very nice folks here and it would be a shame to loose any over some silly posts that I or someone else has made and for most parts well any personal attacks at me I have come to accept that these are what they are and where done for whatever reason shouldn't really been seen as a personal attack. They are what they are.
We all must remember that everyone has an opinion and while we may not agree with what they are saying they have a right to post that opinion no matter if it is right or wrong and we must respect that they have that right. And Kerry you are right no point in making it personal just because we don't like what they have said.
I know that I strongly disagree with a very small cluster of folks regarding posts in Trudeau and Trump but that is because of the way I see things and respect some folks opinions ( especially Chezzy when it come to Trump he lives there and I don't ) and the rest well that just the way they swing so let them swing in the wind the way they want and try not to take it to heart.
Kerry I will try to make a better person of myself and NOT respond negatively to any ones post that I do not like or strongly disagree with. We are Canadians after all and that's not to say we can't disagree with each other but should maintain some form of decorum and maybe try to do a better job of explaining why we have that difference of opinion. 
I know I am grateful to have this forum where I can reach out to old friend and new friends who have supported me through my recent trials and tribulations, so I say thank you to all and wish everyone well.


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

If you spend enough time in a forum you figure who that ass-hats are. The respectable folks stick around for the long haul. You'll read enough posts by the decent regular folks in a forum and get comfortable. Then all of a sudden some dick comes in a slams some unwarranted drama, quoting your post. WTF? The temptation to cut a searing response is very high. You may take a few of these attacks somewhat personal in the beginning. Then you get on with life and ignore the keyboard warriors. Waste no time responding to these idiots who drop in, drop a bomb and leave. A good forum member comes here to contribute. To share his/her knowledge and experience with others. Thinking about their responses and taking a few moments to offer thought provoking, meaningful dialogue.
A quick tip to see what you are dealing with is go look at a persons profile here. Number of posts. When they joined and number of likes. That tells you the story. I likely won't waste my time trying to put a 20-something person in line, with under 100 posts and 2 likes. But hey, that's just me.

The thread starter, Kerry Brown has posted 1800 messages here but has 2606 likes. Some great stats there! I strive to hit the 1:1 ratio. Kerry is well beyond! A valued member no doubt. Congrats Kerry. I hope the personal attacks stop.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Ship of fools said:


> There have been some great posts here for both sides and I may say that surprises me in some ways. And I will also say that if I have contributed in a bad way well I would like to apologize to anyone who may have taken offence to any of my posts.
> There are many very nice folks here and it would be a shame to loose any over some silly posts that I or someone else has made and for most parts well any personal attacks at me I have come to accept that these are what they are and where done for whatever reason shouldn't really been seen as a personal attack. They are what they are.
> We all must remember that everyone has an opinion and while we may not agree with what they are saying they have a right to post that opinion no matter if it is right or wrong and we must respect that they have that right. And Kerry you are right no point in making it personal just because we don't like what they have said.
> I know that I strongly disagree with a very small cluster of folks regarding posts in Trudeau and Trump but that is because of the way I see things and respect some folks opinions ( especially Chezzy when it come to Trump he lives there and I don't ) and the rest well that just the way they swing so let them swing in the wind the way they want and try not to take it to heart.
> ...


The issue on this forum is not difference of opinion, it's bullying over the opinions. A person should be able to participate in the open/political forums if they wish, voice an opinion, and have a discussion about it. This forum has a huge issue with people not replying with a discussion, but attacking and bullying instead. An open/political forum doesn't mean people have to be dicks to others. 

The other issue is that it bleeds into other forums, and users are dicks to each other based on activity in the open forums. The snipy political comments will show up in posts where they are completely irrelevant. If you feel the need to attack someone's political views or throw out some shitty comment in a thread about an amp for example, you have issues.

Unfortunately bullies are bullies and none of them reading something like this will care. Or will reply with the usual 'suck it up' nonsense.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

You maybe right and I agree that there serves no purpose to execute someone by attacking them for that difference. But folks are what they are right and I always hoped that my voice could or would help them see another side of me and others. Just because I am in the middle of life and politics doesn't mean I can't see the other sides voice.
My wife always reminds me that opinions are like assholes some are just bigger then others and I might at times may come across as one of those bigger ones. I hope not but hey I have been wrong before. ( and I hope I can be shown to be wrong always good to learn that lesson ).


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

I've never thought this forum was that bad compared to other ones I've frequented. I try to behave but that's only because through events like Riff Wrath and Greco's breakfast gatherings I've actually been able to meet a pile of members face to face and I don't want them to kick my a$$ next time I see them. 
In all seriousness though you need a bit of thick skin if you're going to be involved in any kind of online discussion forum. Such is the nature of the beast. I'd love it if everyone got along all the time but i don't expect that's going g to happen here or anywhere else.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

While I understand the sentiment behind this thread and I also would prefer people not make personal attacks...or just generally being rude (in a non joking way), I think this thread is kind of pointless.

I assume that the vast majority of posters here are of an adult age. If they haven’t learned common courtesy and respect by now, I’m not sure this thread is going to make any difference to them. I assume that, previous to this thread, they were aware that they’re rude, combative and/or belligerent. I can’t imagine them being in the dark about their behaviour so I doubt this thread will be an awakening for them.

The only thing you can really do is try to block out the negativity by whatever means work for you and be the person YOU want to be. You can’t rationally make a comment and change a lifetime of behaviour in someone else.

If your goal isn’t to change the behaviour (because that’s an excercise in futility) then perhaps your goal should be to change the forum administration’s tolerance of that behaviour. At least there, you might possibly be able to make some headway.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> While I understand the sentiment behind this thread and I also would prefer people not make personal attacks...or just generally being rude (in a non joking way), I think this thread is kind of pointless.
> 
> I assume that the vast majority of posters here are of an adult age. If they haven’t learned common courtesy and respect by now, I’m not sure this thread is going to make any difference to them. I assume that, previous to this thread, they were aware that they’re rude, combative and/or belligerent. I can’t imagine them being in the dark about their behaviour so I doubt this thread will be an awakening for them.
> 
> ...


It won't make a difference, you are right. But as a very long time members, it is nice to vent about it. And who knows, it's possible it might make even one person think about their actions which is better than nothing.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I don’t see this place as being anywhere near as bad as some of the comments in this thread would indicate.

It has been suggested that there is a group of deplorables who are causing problems.

If some of the members don’t meet your requirements for behaviour it would seem that the easiest solution would be just to put those people on ignore.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Kerry Brown said:


> Lately every post degenerates into personal attacks. It is getting very boring. It is causing me to peruse other forums. If some one says something you disagree with one post saying you disagree and why should be enough. If someone continually bugs you just don’t answer them and they will quit bugging you. I have no problem with hijacking threads with humorous posts but back and forth nitpicking needs to stop, please! This is a guitar forum. If you want argue Facebook is a better choice. Thanks.


I agree and try not to take anything personally anymore and word my posts to try make people feel they aren’t being personally called into question.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Guncho said:


> Weird I always think Facebook is where people argue and that everyone is pretty nice here.
> 
> Some people just can't handle someone having a different opinion than they do in a respectful way.


Opposite for me. FB is where some of my oldest friends and acquaintances are. I’ve been attacked here and never had anything but positive experiences on Facebook.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Aside from a couple of guys who try to get under my skin now and then, I haven't felt personally attacked since the days of Clinton Hammond. The Political Forum is what it is and the rules are what they are and I go in there knowing that full well. I don't like to see any mud-slinging outside of there - but oftentimes that happens because a thread that should be in the Political Forum gets started outside of it.

Frankly I think our current Mods are doing a great job.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

The ignore button has served me well. And also I believe in disagreement there’s always a winner when each are 
A) respectful
B) honest
C) self-aware of their own knowledge and/or lack thereof. 

I also find that simply not responding to personal Attacks is the best way to “do as the duck”. Let the water roll of the back. 
(I actually had a typo stating “do as the dick”. Lol. Glad I changed that). Or I would ruffled those who I would have “_*taken the hat*_”)


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> Aside from a couple of guys who try to get under my skin now and then, I haven't felt personally attacked since the days of Clinton Hammond. The Political Forum is what it is and the rules are what they are and I go in there knowing that full well. I don't like to see any mud-slinging outside of there - but oftentimes that happens because a thread that should be in the Political Forum gets started outside of it.
> 
> Frankly I think our current Mods are doing a great job.


I don't generally report comments. But I will say while I haven't been posting much, I have been browsing and I have reported political comments that are outside of the political forum. And these threads had no political context, someone chose to turn them into that. It's an issue I ignored in the past, but now try to make an effort to report. I avoid the political forum now because of my issues I mentioned with it. But I see the grudges from there being brought into other parts of the forum at times (which relates to what @Kerry Brown mentioned in his original post). As long as the mods deal with reported posts and people report them, that's great. Though I feel the users should be dealt with as much as the posts are. There are no reasons for political attack posts outside of the political forum when it's dedicated to that kind of chat. And especially when it's forced into a thread just to cause shit. Those users should just be banned.


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## Jimmy Fingers (Aug 17, 2017)

Jim's rules to live by:
#1 - DON'T Engage
#2 - DO onto others as you would have done unto you
#3 - DON'T Give a shit if someone agrees with me or not. Stay Civil!
#4 - The world is changing...get over it!


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Where are these personal attacks? I have never seen any.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I have to wonder how much of this thread comes from the gfs thread, and a lot of regular being very tired of steadly's shit.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Budda said:


> I have to wonder how much of this thread comes from the gfs thread, and a lot of regular being very tired of steadly's shit.


I guess this is the first personal attack I have seen. Never had a problem with Steady myself.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

sambonee said:


> I’ve ignored the right people I guess. I haven’t noticed it.
> 
> an unchecked lack of character will always seep out of the host. Eventually. Especially as @mhammer posted, when not seeing the effects of the character flaws (which we all have. But some choose to cultivate theirs. )


I too have put a number of rude characters on ignore so I miss a lot of it but even then, I see hints of it in other comments. I am getting close to leaving and feel like once Scott sold the forum it starting going downhill at a fast clip. There are no moderators or if so, they don't care. I will give it another week and if some are not banned by that time I am gone forever.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Budda said:


> I have to wonder how much of this thread comes from the gfs thread, and a lot of regular being very tired of steadly's shit.


I have never had a run in with him at all, but I don't understand why people don't put him on ignore rather than bitch at him. His posts are opinionated, but unless I am missing something he's generally not full on insulting people, whereas I see people insulting him pretty frequently. I may be way off on that, but it's what I see. There are people who clearly don't have him on ignore because they are replying to his posts.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Distortion said:


> I guess this is the first personal attack I have seen. Never had a problem with Steady myself.


And neither have I with you. If you are not on my ignore list, I count those as ones as being reasonable. If that changes, that member goes on the list. Many that are on my ignore list have left; some quite awhile ago.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

My point of this post was to encourage people to be more civil. It was not to encourage more moderation or people to leave the forum. It definitely was not to get people banned. Banning should be a very last resort. I actually think the moderation is pretty good. I like the light hand. I welcome the diversity of opinion. I never put anyone on ignore but there are people that I mostly ignore. This forum is much better than others in regard to personal attacks. I do see it changing and hope that by posting this people will think twice before posting.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

torndownunit said:


> I have never had a run in with him at all, but I don't understand why people don't put him on ignore rather than bitch at him. His posts are opinionated, but unless I am missing something he's generally not full on insulting people, whereas I see people insulting him pretty frequently. I may be way off on that, but it's what I see. There are people who clearly don't have him on ignore because they are replying to his posts.


It's the content of his posts that a few members take issue with. For a new player just joining, they will be seeing a lot of "buy cheap, buy outside of canada, dont support local stores" because that's pretty much *all* his guitar-related threads. Coincidentally, that's not really the community we seem to aim to build here. It's not him calling members names, it's what he posts and the "statistics" he posts with it. Add the fact that it's been a few years of it and yeah, other members are going to get fed up and auto-respond to anything he posts with disdain (because it's almost always the same type of posts - they dont even have to guess).

If you aren't learning from your time here, and you're posting the same stuff over and over again, and never actually backing yourself up... it gets old. I for one am tired of it, after over a decade of being on this forum. It took a while, but I'm tired of it.

So you see a lot of other regulars pounce on him - because it's SSDD.

I don't see many personal attacks on here, personally. There's a handful of people who do the same thing and they generally stir the pot (intentionally or not, but I believe the former) but outside of that - not really.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Kerry Brown said:


> My point of this post was to encourage people to be more civil. It was not to encourage more moderation or people to leave the forum. It definitely was not to get people banned. Banning should be a very last resort. I actually think the moderation is pretty good. I like the light hand. I welcome the diversity of opinion. I never put anyone on ignore but there are people that I mostly ignore. This forum is much better than others in regard to personal attacks. I do see it changing and hope that by posting this people will think twice before posting.


To clarify, I know you weren't encouraging banning. That's 100% me. If someone feels the need to post shit outside the political forum simply to interject their views when it's not even remotely in context with the thread, I do think they should be moderated. If it's repeat behaviour, then banned.

We have a political forum exactly for this. People can start any discussion or debate there that they want, and people who are a part of the forum can engage. There's never a reason to force that onto other people or other parts of the forum. That's just my opinion, and I don't think that's a case of over moderation.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Budda said:


> It's the content of his posts that a few members take issue with. For a new player just joining, they will be seeing a lot of "buy cheap, buy outside of canada, dont support local stores" because that's pretty much *all* his guitar-related threads. Coincidentally, that's not really the community we seem to aim to build here. It's not him calling members names, it's what he posts and the "statistics" he posts with it. Add the fact that it's been a few years of it and yeah, other members are going to get fed up and auto-respond to anything he posts with disdain (because it's almost always the same type of posts - they dont even have to guess).
> 
> If you aren't learning from your time here, and you're posting the same stuff over and over again, and never actually backing yourself up... it gets old. I for one am tired of it, after over a decade of being on this forum. It took a while, but I'm tired of it.
> 
> ...


I've been on the forum forever, but I just haven't been affected by those posts. A lot of times he starts his own threads though, so if I am not interested in reading them, I just don't. That's possibly a reason why.


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I have not really seen any personal attacks on here, but then again I don't read every post. I don't have anyone on ignore but I do ignore certain peoples posts. I have seen the odd nasty comment here and there. I've even had a few thrown at me. I just report them and the next day the post is gone.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> Sounds like more people need to take my advice.


Nope, no need for that.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

torndownunit said:


> ... while I haven't been posting much, I have been browsing and I have reported political comments that are outside of the political forum...
> 
> ... It's an issue I ignored in the past, but now try to make an effort to report.
> 
> ...





Steadfastly said:


> ... I will give it another week and if some are not banned by that time I am gone forever.


And they wonder why people make dismissive comments.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Ship of fools said:


> You maybe right and I agree that there serves no purpose to execute someone by attacking them for that difference. But folks are what they are right and I always hoped that my voice could or would help them see another side of me and others. Just because I am in the middle of life and politics doesn't mean I can't see the other sides voice.
> My wife always reminds me that opinions are like assholes some are just bigger then others and I might at times may come across as one of those bigger ones. I hope not but hey I have been wrong before. ( and I hope I can be shown to be wrong always good to learn that lesson ).


When you think of it assholes can be pretty important.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Wardo said:


> And they wonder why people make dismissive comments.


That sort of stuff I just don't notice I guess. I guess it comes from so much exposure to social media earlier in my life. The people threatening to leave to get attention instead of simply leaving was so common. I simply may not have participated in a lot of these threads.

If you take exception to my views on moderation and that is why you are quoting me at the same time as Steadfastly, that's fine. It's just my opinion. All I was commenting on was the political stuff being dragged into other forums. Which seems to be conveniently edited out of each of those quotes just to make me look like a whiney asshole possibly.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I've been a member of the DIYstompbox forum since it hived off of AMPAGE in the late '90s. New arrivals regularly comment what a breath of fresh air it is, in contrast to their experience elsewhere. The basic reason, I suspect, is that people try to be helpful. And they try to be helpful because the modus operandi of the forum is to make things, fix things, invent things, and understand things. We do some of that here, and folks are generally pleasant in those contexts. And while folks _can_ be pleasant when discussing other matters, it is often harder for them to behave when topics veer off that particular track.

I think if one looks at the various subfora, one is more likely to encounter instances of objectionable behaviour and attitudes on some than others. The more technical and learning-oriented the theme, the more pleasant and helpful. When the focus is purely opinions, folks tend to be less considerate.


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Distortion said:


> Where are these personal attacks? I have never seen any.


Ur just to stupid to sea them


----------



## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

I think a long time ago I was suggesting making this site more personal. Our input here isn’t really linked to anything on our “permanent record” as most of us use silly handles, as was the norm for anonymous sites when this place was made. If we all, today, randomized our usernames and avatars, not a lot of us would know each other anymore. 

Facebook for all its evils really made an effort to make the users of the internet accountable. Before that site convinced everyone to use their real name and add their grandparents you could be whoever you wanted to be. not many people chose themselves. Being offensive on here maybe will get me scolded and ignored. But on Facebook my whole family will see that meme I posted about the Pope and the Chilean miners so it somewhat keeps people’s inner trolls in check.

If you want people to be civil don’t let them wear masks. But if you’re gonna attend an antifa rally, try not to argue with everyone who wants to be on a YouTube highlight reel.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

So all of this is Steadfastly's fault? Lets get 'em!


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

player99 said:


> So all of this is Steadfastly's fault? Lets get 'em!


/thread problem solved.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Just because you don't click problem threads doesn't mean there aren't problem threads.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Budda said:


> Just because you don't click problem threads doesn't mean there aren't problem threads.


If a problem thread is posted and nobody reads it, does the problem exist?


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Has anyone mentioned the passive aggressive trolling of members opinions based on what area of the world they get their gear from? How about some threads by members about specific brands being answered by a diatribe of marketing about a brand not associated nor even resembling the brand being discussed in a thread? Some of those types of questions need to be answered as well. I feel like I'm a contributing member but find myself reticent to even make a thread about my favorite guitar because it will be immediately met with an opposing view due to brand name, price, region of make and quality of materials and craftsmanship involved. I spent a good couple of years shutting my trap in this forum about some of the false information being expressed as a user opinion, when that opinion is based on nothing but marketing and not that users personal experience. That's the stem of at least one area in this forum that needs to be looked at by all members. If someone wants to know about a fucking Gibson Les Paul, give your personal experience with them and not a link to an instrument that isn't even the same brand of the original question, unless it's asked for as an alternative. I'm one of the members Budda mentioned earlier that is getting right pissed off with the same shit from the same source with opinions based on nothing but conjecture, hearsay, and online marketing.

The above is a totally isolated condition. For most of the members here I'll just thank all who've given their well thought out and appropriately discussed ideas and help on a great many subjects here. Particularly the more technical ones based both on the gear and the music itself. 

I'll also publicly apologise to @Steadfastly for insinuating he's a village idiot at one point in a thread. But that's entirely besides the point.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


>


Thanks, let the games begin.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> If a problem thread is posted and nobody reads it, does the problem exist?


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

player99 said:


> If a problem thread is posted and nobody reads it, does the problem exist?


Yes.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

It seems like many members have their cycles synced together.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I have a close group of friends & family where we can be very sarcastic & jokingly insult one another--and nobody is hurt because we know what we mean--and it isn't meant as being nasty or mean.
I suspect some of you have something like that as well.

I think we sometimes (Myself included) need to remember to not be like that outside of those circles.

(Now as to making a joke about James Taylor--he's a celebrity--it comes with the territory, and it was an insinuation I find his music boring-nothing about his person)


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

zontar said:


> I have a close group of friends & family where we can be very sarcastic & jokingly insult one another--and nobody is hurt because we know what we mean--and it isn't meant as being nasty or mean.
> I suspect some of you have something like that as swell.
> 
> I think we sometimes (Myself included) need to remember to not be like that outside of those circles.
> ...


Great point. Along with that, the basic way we communicate on forums is very different than in person. There's no realtime back and forth to fully flesh out most ideas. It's basically IT's fault anyways. They're the real culprits here.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

After reading this, I realize that, like in life, there are people who like to argue. And some who enjoy a cordial debate. Also some who like to purposely insult. And finally some who want to fight. I like debate. The rest is a waste of time and so much energy. 

we had a troller on an Rc Buggy racing forum years ago. He was a dick online and in person. There we were mostly from the same track. Same crap tho. 

general good character is diminishing as the world continues to embrace “personal truths”. Not much change in site. I really do like the F#m chord. Especially as a power chord. cheers


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> I too have put a number of rude characters on ignore so I miss a lot of it but even then, I see hints of it in other comments. I am getting close to leaving and feel like once Scott sold the forum it starting going downhill at a fast clip. There are no moderators or if so, they don't care. I will give it another week and if some are not banned by that time I am gone forever.


1. demands are for divas
2. don't leave
3. youre bluffing


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> Nope, no need for that.


what's wrong with his advice? are you secretly unsure of how to make a G chord?


----------



## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

sambonee said:


> I really do like the F#m chord. Especially as a power chord. cheers


I especially like the Amaj7 Gmaj7 F#m E7 A progression on my LaPatrie Etude. It is very pretty. The cedar top rings.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

mhammer said:


> And that, my friend, is the internet.


and also explains peoples reaction to other things like refugees crossing boarders, strife and starvation in other parts of the world, etc.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

And why it's a heckuva lot easier to bomb your enemies than to stab them with a bayonet.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Great thread !

Yep, this forum has changed. I started being a reader for many many years (2008-2016) and finally started to participate since am on the verge of retirement. That being said, I also joined the political forum for a short time, there again I read and then gave my opinion ... Bad mistake... After a short while asked to be removed from that forum since it was toxic...

Yes older members look down on younger ones with no respect given. A certain mob movement... 

I write about my gear and instruments and keep to myself otherwise. Some great people here on the board, don't get me wrong there is much worst out there. Have to admit the ignore function really helps this place.

I really hope I don't become a fucking old prick once retired...


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

This thread needs to be moved to the political forum .. lol


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Nice gold top.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Sure, but where's the pickup toggle switch?


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Frenchy99 said:


> I really hope I don't become a fucking old prick once retired...


it's an acquired thing .

all ya gotta do is practice a bit .

still, just keep it plugged in and turned up so you can't hear the kids playing on your front lawn and you'll be OK .


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

and hopefully, clear skies the rest of your life so that you're not tempted to yell at the clouds.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


> and hopefully, clear skies the rest of your life so that you're not tempted to yell at the clouds.


"cause they'll let you know they don't like being yelled at.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

mike_oxbig said:


> Ur just to stupid to sea them


 Are you serious or jokeing ? . I see a couple of GC's lap dogs like your comment. You should have wrote "see" dummy. Sea is the ocean.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Wardo said:


> This thread needs to be moved to the political forum .. lol


That gold top's not just nice, it's inspirational!


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Distortion said:


> I see a couple of GC's lap dogs like your comment.


Case in point?


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Dorian2 said:


> Case in point?


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Distortion said:


>


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Shirley I was joking

Were you?

Didn’t take long for someone to prove the point lol


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Budda said:


> I have to wonder how much of this thread comes from the gfs thread, and a lot of regular being very tired of steadly's shit.


Hmm, I’ve never had an issue with him. Seems like a good dude.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Kerry Brown said:


> My point of this post was to encourage people to be more civil. It was not to encourage more moderation or people to leave the forum. It definitely was not to get people banned. Banning should be a very last resort. I actually think the moderation is pretty good. I like the light hand. I welcome the diversity of opinion. I never put anyone on ignore but there are people that I mostly ignore. This forum is much better than others in regard to personal attacks. I do see it changing and hope that by posting this people will think twice before posting.


I’ve never visited the political sub-forum but if it’s as much as a cesspool as people make it out to be, why have it? This is supposed to be a music forum, folks can go have their political fights any number of places other than a guitar forum.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

1SweetRide said:


> I’ve never visited the political sub-forum but if it’s as much as a cesspool as people make it out to be, why have it? This is supposed to be a music forum, folks can go have their political fights any number of places other than a guitar forum.


It's a good thing. Keep it.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> I’ve never visited the political sub-forum but if it’s as much as a cesspool as people make it out to be, why have it? This is supposed to be a music forum, folks can go have their political fights any number of places other than a guitar forum.


That's a tough one. It keeps a lot of hostile posts confined to that section. But, I mentioned my issue which is some grudges from there seem to make their way to the other forums. Basically some of the heated arguments I saw there aren't left there. But, the moderation for reported posts outside of that forum on this site is pretty solid. And some users clearly enjoy it being there, which is what matters.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

1SweetRide said:


> I’ve never visited the political sub-forum but if it’s as much as a cesspool as people make it out to be, why have it?


There is nothing wrong with the political forum. There are a lot good discussions there and I’ve never had any issues with anyone in that forum. It’s certainly not the war zone that it’s being depicted as. People will disagree on things and I suppose that some people might have a low threshold for being challenged on their beliefs but participation in the forum is optional.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> Hmm, I’ve never had an issue with him. Seems like a good dude.


Do you read his threads?


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Budda said:


> Do you read his threads?


In general, I just read the threads for subjects that interest me. I don't seek out posts by any individual member.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> In general, I just read the threads for subjects that interest me. I don't seek out posts by any individual member.


Thats kind of dodging the question.

Go read some of his threads.


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> I’ve never visited the political sub-forum but if it’s as much as a cesspool as people make it out to be, why have it? This is supposed to be a music forum, folks can go have their political fights any number of places other than a guitar forum.



My thoughts exactly. Do you go to a political debate and start asking questions about pickups? There is political crap throughout the board because it’s leaking from the political forum. Nuke it and let the board return to its previous overall focus and culture.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Budda said:


> Do you read his threads?



Not usually.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Budda said:


> Thats kind of dodging the question.
> 
> Go read some of his threads.


Nah, I’ve got better things to do than to try to find posts I won’t like lol.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> Nah, I’ve got better things to do than to try to find posts I won’t like lol.


I ended up in one of these threads today without realizing what it was. Ya, don't go seek them out.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> My thoughts exactly. Do you go to a political debate and start asking questions about pickups? There is political crap throughout the board because it’s leaking from the political forum. Nuke it and let the board return to its previous overall focus and culture.


Yeah ....... no.

It's been there forever and contrary to the beliefs of *those that don't go there* it may get a bit heated but is not hostile to any of it's willing participants.

How about some "live and let live"?


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> Yeah ....... no.
> 
> It's been there forever and contrary to the beliefs of *those that don't go there* it may get a bit heated but is not hostile to any of it's willing participants.
> 
> How about some "live and let live"?


I'll take shit, but it's hostile if you are younger than the general demographic of this forum. That's why I gave up participating in it. I had hoped to have discussions and learn a few things around last election, but if you care about issues that younger people see as important nowadays you are are dismissed, and you get extremely rude replies. There are actual thread titles trolling people on issues like that. Again, I'll take shit but I actually was an active participant for awhile. Until the posts got purged, there was random posts throwing out insults related to last election in many posts on the general forums.

The older users on this forum have a very different perception of how this forum can be. The older members can be very hostile, dismissive, and disrespectful. People can either give me shit for bringing that up, or maybe realize that it's been mentioned a few times in this thread. 

I'll keep my mouth shut about a lot of stuff, but claiming there is no hostility there is a joke. But, I left the forum. I am only even making comments because of this thread so that it's not one sided. And that will absolutely be my last comment on that particular issue because I don't want to take shit, nor do I think people give a shit.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

1SweetRide said:


> Nah, I’ve got better things to do than to try to find posts I won’t like lol.



You don't find them They find you!


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> I'll take shit, but it's hostile if you are younger than the general demographic of this forum. That's why I gave up participating in it. I had hoped to have discussions and learn a few things around last election, but if you care about issues that younger people see as important nowadays you are are dismissed, and you get extremely rude replies. There are actual thread titles trolling people on issues like that. Again, I'll take shit but I actually was an active participant for awhile. Until the posts got purged, there was random posts throwing out insults related to last election in many posts on the general forums.
> 
> The older users on this forum have a very different perception of how this forum can be. The older members can be very hostile, dismissive, and disrespectful. People can either give me shit for bringing that up, or maybe realize that it's been mentioned a few times in this thread.
> 
> I'll keep my mouth shut about a lot of stuff, but claiming there is no hostility there is a joke. But, I left the forum. I am only even making comments because of this thread so that it's not one sided. And that will absolutely be my last comment on that particular issue because I don't want to take shit, nor do I think people give a shit.


As an elder member of this forum all I can say is you've actually tossed some ageism my way - and that's fine - my skin ain't that thin. Regardless, how's this? In an effort to be helpful and inclusive perhaps the mods might consider creating another Political Forum in addition to the existing one where more controversial topics can be discussed - but with rules that require that the gloves stay on. Perhaps that would keep everybody happy.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

The problem is there are so many Aggressive Conservatives making the place unpalatable for artsy liberals.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> It's a good thing. Keep it.


As long as you have to be a member in bad standing to read and comment on things it doesn't affect me so keep it.....or not. It's not that important.


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> Yeah ....... no.
> 
> It's been there forever and contrary to the beliefs of *those that don't go there* it may get a bit heated but is not hostile to any of it's willing participants.
> 
> How about some "live and let live"?


It hasn’t been there forever and it does spill out into the rest of the forum. So . . . yeah.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> Do you read his threads?


I do at times. Nothing wrong with them, If you don't like them then ignore them. Simple enough. So he buys online and out of country.....can't see the point of that myself but it's no reason for looking for a triangular rail and a dumb goose. Oh, and as far as your elders or eldars having no respect for young people, earn it first.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> Oh, and as far as your elders or eldars having no respect for young people, earn it first.


Get bent


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> As long as you have to be a member in bad standing to read and comment on things it doesn't affect me so keep it.....or not. It's not that important.


What does this mean?


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

had no respect for elders , got none from the young'uns ... so it evens out in the end .

got a thick hide from being whipped most of my life ( and many here have similar experiences )

I buy the best quality I can afford , unless I'm experimenting and don't care till the final product.

I try to be civil even when under attack ( don't always succeed )

but I refuse to suffer fools gladly ... seen too much stupidity in my life.

besides , life is getting too short ... better things to put my energy into.

now where did I leave my guitar


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> Nah, I’ve got better things to do than to try to find posts I won’t like lol.


Ok. I told you what happens and where you can find it, but hes a good dude and you'll avoid the thread(s). 

You see how that doesnt help, yeah? You understand that theres poor threads and poor posts, and newcomers may see them and get bad info? And that this is continuous behaviour?

Or will you pretend this post doesnt exist either?


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> I do at times. Nothing wrong with them, If you don't like them then ignore them. Simple enough. So he buys online and out of country.....can't see the point of that myself but it's no reason for looking for a triangular rail and a dumb goose. Oh, and as far as your elders or eldars having no respect for young people, earn it first.


Why would i ignore big box consumerism and spending canadian dollars abroad? Especially if I can recommend brands, services and stores at home?


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> What does this mean?


Jezues......I'm not a member so I can't read anything in there and I don't care about what's going on in there so it doesn't affect me. Ergo, the political site isn't that important.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> Why would i ignore big box consumerism and spending canadian dollars abroad? Especially if I can recommend brands, services and stores at home?


Why not? I shop at home.....Steady doesn't. Is the world going to stop turning? BTW if I could cross the line I'd go down and buy my next bike in Texas. As far as your recommendations go, they wouldn't work for me for various reasons. Among other things, our tastes are shall we say different.


----------



## Frenchy (Mar 23, 2011)

I enjoy this forum much more without the Political part of it. We are here for Music, something enjoyable. Political debates are not enjoyable. I can listen to the news for bad news and I don't need no corn fed bullshit story from someone who thinks he has all the answers. I have a wife for that !


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> It hasn’t been there forever and it does spill out into the rest of the forum. So . . . yeah.


1st post in that forum was March 2008 - 12 years ago. In the digital world that's forever. As for "spilling out" the rules are the rules - ask that they be enforced, report the offenders.

BTW my favourite amp of all time was my Garnet Pro. Sadly I took it to the dump because the local store said that solid state was all the rage and retubing would be more than the amp was worth. Bucket list is to get another before I kick.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Budda said:


> Ok. I told you what happens and where you can find it, but hes a good dude and you'll avoid the thread(s).
> 
> You see how that doesnt help, yeah? You understand that theres poor threads and poor posts, and newcomers may see them and get bad info? And that this is continuous behaviour?
> 
> Or will you pretend this post doesnt exist either?


You really shouldn’t care so much about what I think or what I do. I’m not that important.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

allthumbs56 said:


> Garnet Pro .. Bucket list is to get another before I kick.


I was in Sherwood Music, Kitchener on Saturday and they have Pro 200 head there. I can't recall the price.
Peeked in the back. Man! Those transformers are huge!


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> You really shouldn’t care so much about what I think or what I do. I’m not that important.


I don't. I care about making sure it's mostly quality information that gets dispersed in this community, and someone goes against that most of the time. I pointed this out to you. You hadn't seen it. I said go see it. Here we are.

It would be cool if more people took the approach of "what about the new people?" as opposed to "well I don't care so it can't be an issue".


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Budda said:


> I don't. I care about making sure it's mostly quality information that gets dispersed in this community, and someone goes against that most of the time. I pointed this out to you. You hadn't seen it. I said go see it. Here we are.
> 
> It would be cool if more people took the approach of "what about the new people?" as opposed to "well I don't care so it can't be an issue".


For sure, we want this site to be good for all but I'm not chasing down user's posts just because you want me to. I think I do quite a bit already to contribute positively to this community.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> As an elder member of this forum all I can say is you've actually tossed some ageism my way - and that's fine - my skin ain't that thin. Regardless, how's this? In an effort to be helpful and inclusive perhaps the mods might consider creating another Political Forum in addition to the existing one where more controversial topics can be discussed - but with rules that require that the gloves stay on. Perhaps that would keep everybody happy.


I don't have a problem not visiting that forum at all now. The other members like it, so that's really all that matters. I am not egotistical enough to think my opinion matters as far as that forum. I just don't agree with posts saying it's not hostile, or that disagreements I saw in those threads didn't spill into other parts of the forum (this was a real problem around last election). While I was using the forum, I saw plenty of both going on along with a fair amount of bullying. The answer is obviously not to go there if you don't like it, so I don't anymore. But I will also give my view on what I saw there only because we are specifically discussing it. It's not something I'll ever bring up outside this thread.

And as far as ageism? Try being a user outside the general demo of this forum. I am not even young is the crazy part, just younger than the general demo. I completely feel that in this type of discussion I should be able to point out the issue with that on this forum. And it absolutely is a factor in the political forum when trying to participate.

Anyway, I'd like to politely bow out of this aspect of the discussion before I get the inevitable 'suck it up' or Liberal (which I am not) comments. I offered an opinion, and that's it. Edit: already saw a Liberal comment.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

The forum existed before the political forum and worked quite well. You can redefine ‘forever’as you like but it doesn’t change anything. 

I have repeatedly reported people and asked that the rules be enforced. It’s a retroactive burden placed on the wrong people. I shouldn’t have to become a moderator just to read the board. 

The board is being ruined and a group of us are tired of it,




allthumbs56 said:


> 1st post in that forum was March 2008 - 12 years ago. In the digital world that's forever. As for "spilling out" the rules are the rules - ask that they be enforced, report the offenders.
> 
> BTW my favourite amp of all time was my Garnet Pro. Sadly I took it to the dump because the local store said that solid state was all the rage and retubing would be more than the amp was worth. Bucket list is to get another before I kick.


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## Frenchy (Mar 23, 2011)

Actually, I'm surprised this board is still going strong. Lots of other boards are almost dead with people migrating to Facebook groups which I myself participle even more too.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Frenchy said:


> Actually, I'm surprised this board is still going strong. Lots of other boards are almost dead with people migrating to Facebook groups which I myself participle even more too.


Facebook isn't as easy to navigate. There's no real way to group threads and follow a particular subject. Once FB fixes that, these old style boards may have to struggle to survive.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> I don't have a problem not visiting that forum at all now. The other members like it, so that's really all that matters. I am not egotistical enough to think my opinion matters as far as that forum. I just don't agree with posts saying it's not hostile, or that disagreements I saw in those threads didn't spill into other parts of the forum (this was a real problem around last election). While I was using the forum, I saw plenty of both going on along with a fair amount of bullying. The answer is obviously not to go there if you don't like it, so I don't anymore. But I will also give my view on what I saw there only because we are specifically discussing it. It's not something I'll ever bring up outside this thread.
> 
> And as far as ageism? Try being a user outside the general demo of this forum. I am not even young is the crazy part, just younger than the general demo. I completely feel that in this type of discussion I should be able to point out the issue with that on this forum. And it absolutely is a factor in the political forum when trying to participate.
> 
> Anyway, I'd like to politely bow out of this aspect of the discussion before I get the inevitable 'suck it up' or Liberal (which I am not) comments. I offered an opinion, and that's it. Edit: already saw a Liberal comment.


Fair enough. Let's talk about gear and gigs and pass on the politics then my friend. Our definitions of hostility and bullying are different - and that's cool. As I said before regarding bullying and hostility being found in other areas, report it and Dave or Scott or one of the other mods will address it pretty quick.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> Oh, and as far as your elders or eldars having no respect for young people, earn it first.


Seriously? It works 2 ways man.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> The forum existed before the political forum and worked quite well. You can redefine ‘forever’as you like but it doesn’t change anything.
> 
> I have repeatedly reported people and asked that the rules be enforced. It’s a retroactive burden placed on the wrong people. I shouldn’t have to become a moderator just to read the board.
> 
> The board is being ruined and a group of us are tired of it,


The forum started late in 2005 and you and I both joined mere months afterward. Scott created the political forum less than 2 years after that. I've got no bones to pick - we all have our own interpretations of History.

Personally, I have no problem with the mix of folks here and what they say and I don't see the demographic being any different than it was 14 years ago.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> The forum started late in 2005 and you and I both joined mere months afterward. Scott created the political forum less than 2 years after that.
> .


I don’t know what/why you are arguing anymore. Have a good day


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## Frenchy (Mar 23, 2011)

Cant we all just get along !!! 

HNG^%$


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Oh, and as far as your elders or eldars having no respect for young people, earn it first.


 

well, WE were the ones that built the major highways back then
developed transistors ( for computers, cellphones and most electronics today)
built the methods of high speed data transmission across the world
developed jet aircraft for quick easy flights to vacation spots
developed the super luxury liners for ocean cruises
made reusable containers ... glass,etc
usually built things to last ( not throw away)
built much smaller houses for our needs
took responsibility for OUR actions/decisions and didn't look for someone else to cover the costs or take care of us.

we were also the gen that used "pay as you go" as a motto , rather than "I want it now , put it on the card, I deserve it"
( that last bit WAS a little harsh but getting worse every year )

let's stop the finger wagging , criticisms and name calling / labeling .

so if everyone could just tune up and play their favorite song , the world would be a better place.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Wow.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

WOW is all I can say as a older person I sure hope that I can still learn form whatever age has to teach me as for all the other stuff well its just stuff right. And while we may not understand why folks post what they post does it really matter. NOPE. The only thing that matters is how we carry our self's in that conversation.
I wonder why when at the end of the day isn't it suppose to be about music and if you got something to share about music or instruments then you should and keep politics in where politics belong. And if you need to chastise someone for their beliefs can't you do it privately, just thinking.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

oldjoat said:


> "I want it now , put it on the card, I deserve it"


I switched to this...MUCH better!


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

oldjoat said:


> well, WE were ..


here first before you


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## Private Hudson (Jan 27, 2018)




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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Ship of fools said:


> ...as a older person I sure hope that I can still learn from whatever age has to teach me


You are a very wise man. Seriously


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> I don’t know what/why you are arguing anymore. Have a good day


Stating facts is not arguing. You have a good one too TG.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

butterknucket said:


> That's why I gave up Facebook, and I don't miss it one bit.


I find Facebook very useful. I keep in contact with some friends that live hundreds of miles away and I belong to a couple of special interest groups (very small groups) where we private message each other. Other than that I keep my friends list very small. I get tons of people I don't know friend requesting that maybe know someone in my friends list but I don't approve anyone I don't know or have any use for. I don't get in to any conversations publicly with casual acquaintances. I'm hardly ever on it. So I don't experience any of the issues that people complain about. 
I thought about giving up Facebook altogether but it does have its uses.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Wardo said:


> I got booted from The Acoustic Guitar Forum for saying that James Taylor's tuning video was boring as hell but more interesting than his music.
> 
> Fine upstanding place that Acoustic Guitar Forum ... lol


Probably a stupid thing to get bounced from a guitar forum but why agitate in the first place. Alot of people get kicked off forums then complain about the reasons. But they knew what they were doing.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I find Facebook very useful. I keep in contact with some friends that live hundreds of miles away and I belong to a couple of special interest groups (very small groups) where we private message each other. Other than that I keep my friends list very small. I get tons of people I don't know friend requesting that maybe know someone in my friends list but I don't approve anyone I don't know or have any use for. I don't get in to any conversations publicly with casual acquaintances. I'm hardly ever on it. So I don't experience any of the issues that people complain about.
> I thought about giving up Facebook altogether but it does have its uses.


I agree with what you're saying, if you can keep it that way. I held on to it for longer than I wanted to, but there was just much negativity amongst the people I knew, and they were directing a lot of towards me because I didn't agree with their opinions and agendas. 

Since then, from a friends list of over 200, only two people have reached out to me.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

GuitarT said:


> *I've never thought this forum was that bad compared to other ones I've frequented.* I try to behave but that's only because through events like Riff Wrath and Greco's breakfast gatherings I've actually been able to meet a pile of members face to face and I don't want them to kick my a$$ next time I see them.
> In all seriousness though you need a bit of thick skin if you're going to be involved in any kind of online discussion forum. Such is the nature of the beast. I'd love it if everyone got along all the time but i don't expect that's going g to happen here or anywhere else.


Its not bad here at all. I like that its lightly moderated, well moderated. Beings as the moderators don't have a heavy hand here it can open things up to being a bit harsher around here than other forums. But I haven't really seen that as an issue. I know my self I've been a little snarky to others here and probably offended. Its easy to do with the anonymity of the Internet. But I'm pretty sure we're all grown up enough to take some occasional "sticks and stones". I really don't see what the OP has said as an issue. Of course I really don't read the Open Mic that often. I guess if posts here offend you then stick to other areas of the forum where theres lots of good info.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

allthumbs56 said:


> As an elder member of this forum all I can say is you've actually tossed some ageism my way - and that's fine - my skin ain't that thin. Regardless, how's this? In an effort to be helpful and inclusive perhaps the mods might consider creating another Political Forum in addition to the existing one where more controversial topics can be discussed - but with rules that require that the gloves stay on. Perhaps that would keep everybody happy.


Perhaps a Safe Space subforum, moderated by Jordan Peterson? 

This thread is a microcosm of where the world's going, with universities blocking free speech, etc. Some people think that current trajectory is a good thing, some don't. Vive le difference. 

And to those who are talking about leakage: did you ever consider the political subforum might more accurately be 'political gravity', attracting political comments that would have been more commonly spread around other areas? It's probably reduced the amount of comments that would have been made, especially in the recent extremely divisive federal election (and people are surprised the comments amped up then - give your head a shake).

It's funny the people who are unhappy about this had absolutely no problem with it before 2015, when _they_ were doing all the sniping. Funny how 'being in opposition' changes your POV, eh?


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

guitarman2 said:


> I get tons of people I don't know friend requesting that maybe know someone in my friends list but I don't approve anyone I don't know or have any use for.


Especially when they don't introduce themselves via PM explaining who/why they want to friend you.

I'm on FB more for seeing updated pics of my families kids growing.
And a few close friends that I can steal memes from to post here. lol


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> Probably a stupid thing to get bounced from a guitar forum but why agitate in the first place. Alot of people get kicked off forums then complain about the reasons. But they knew what they were doing.


I’m not complaining; I was laughing about it.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Perhaps a Safe Space subforum, moderated by Jordan Peterson?


Yeah, I was thinking that too. A safe space with on line colouring books and a bubble machine. Works for universities so why not try it here.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

guitarman2 said:


> But I'm pretty sure we're all grown up enough to take some occasional "sticks and stones".


Sometimes some posts are so idiotic that one _has_ to take a shot at them.








It's human nature. lol


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Its not bad here at all. I like that its lightly moderated, well moderated. Beings as the moderators don't have a heavy hand here it can open things up to being a bit harsher around here than other forums. But I haven't really seen that as an issue. I know my self I've been a little snarky to others here and probably offended. Its easy to do with the anonymity of the Internet. But I'm pretty sure we're all grown up enough to take some occasional "sticks and stones". I really don't see what the OP has said as an issue. Of course I really don't read the Open Mic that often. I guess if posts here offend you then stick to other areas of the forum where theres lots of good info.


Yup. But clearly, you're wrong about "taking some occasional sticks n stones'. Some want none of it, some can dish it out but not take it (I find this particularly annoying, and there are some very guilty parties complaining in here), some will never see that they are slinging arrows, some will never recognize how wrong they are or how right others are OR THAT THERE ARE NO RIGHT ANSWERS. Or, that by answering you are feeding trolls/stirring the pot.

All just human nature.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> well, WE were the ones that built the major highways back then
> developed transistors ( for computers, cellphones and most electronics today)
> built the methods of high speed data transmission across the world
> developed jet aircraft for quick easy flights to vacation spots
> ...


Not knocking what you say but I take it that you're a good 15 years older than me if not more. Most of what you mention is 40's if not earlier "technology".....transistors is borderline, early 50's. Pay as you go for the most part was "Pay for it now". As far as respect goes, I grew up and live in a community (by community I don't mean town or village) that values respect and that is something you have to earn. 


Ship of fools said:


> WOW is all I can say as a older person I sure hope that I can still learn form whatever age has to teach me.


I'm getting to the point where I realize that there's not much out there to learn that is better than the values I was taught growing up.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

greco said:


> I switched to this...MUCH better!


Will that be cash or chargex......'click, click' sign here and here's your copy.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

earned every bit of the respect I got ... only respected the ones that deserved it.

and if you have a better way of doing something , show me, I'll learn it.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> Stating facts is not arguing. You have a good one too TG.


Like_ the fact _the political forum hasn't existed forever  Oh wait . . .LOL


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> Yeah, I was thinking that too. A safe space with on line colouring books and a bubble machine. Works for universities so why not try it here.


Don't forget your "safe word".


High/Deaf said:


> This thread is a microcosm of where the world's going, with universities blocking free speech, etc.


If someone sees this as true they must live in a very small and controlled world.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> Like_ the fact _the political forum hasn't existed forever  Oh wait . . .LOL


?? I missed maybe where someone said it had. The idea was to have a discussion area a) because Scott's membership asked for it b) to help keep it out of the gear areas. Started, what, a couple years after the place opened up? I don't know, I wasn't an early joiner.

My opinion is, if it wasn't there there would be more not less of a problem elsewhere. There doesn't exist the proper moderation to monitor all posted content, not since the place changed hands.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> Like_ the fact _the political forum hasn't existed forever  Oh wait . . .LOL


I tell my Maggs that I will love her forever too - I'm such a liar


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Electraglide said:


> If someone sees this as true they must live in a very small and controlled world.


Says someone who is this insular .....



Electraglide said:


> I'm getting to the point where I realize that there's not much out there to learn that is better than the values I was taught growing up.


So you admit you haven't been paying attention since you 'dumped your books on the desk and left the coarse unfinished' LOL, that there's not much out there to learn, but you are still aware of what's actually going on? No, you aren't.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Says someone who is this insular .....
> 
> 
> 
> So you admit you haven't been paying attention since you 'dumped your books on the desk and left the coarse unfinished' LOL, that there's not much out there to learn, but you are still aware of what's actually going on? No, you aren't.


Never said that but if that's how you interpret it, so be it. As far as you assuming what values I grew up with and still live by, screw that. I am well aware of what's going on in the world out side of this little bit of social media.
BTW, I'm not sure if you need 'this' with insular.....


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

loving this thread.

_I deserve respect but you have to earn it!

These are facts because I say they are._

_I did fine with the values I was taught, ignore my stints in prison, philandering, probation, etc.

Maybe you guys need a safe space, I certainly don't!....... _[runs to a locked sub-forum with a few friendlies because the PM's socks and beard are downright unacceptable]


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

keto said:


> Well, this'll be interesting.


Gaining momentum.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

[QUOTE="vadsy, post: 2623286, member: 8674"

_I did fine with the values I was taught, ignore my stints in prison, philandering, probation, etc._
[/QUOTE]
Tell you what troll, I choose to answer this but if these are directed to me, 1) you're an asshole and 2) FO asshole.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> Tell you what troll, I choose to answer this but if these are directed to me, 1) you're an asshole and 2) FO asshole.


uhm, tell you what,.. if you think its directed at you and feel the need to answer, you are certainly welcome to


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Lol. A thread on treating each other better rapidly descends into more interpersonal combat.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

This is coming along nicely .. lol


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

1SweetRide said:


> Lol. A thread on treating each other better rapidly descends into more interpersonal combat.


yeah, I was wondering how long it would take .. lol


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

1SweetRide said:


> Lol. A thread on treating each other better rapidly descends into more interpersonal combat.





Wardo said:


> yeah, I was wondering how long it would take .. lol


you guys were going on 12 pages,., I did it in one post. youre welcome


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

keto said:


> Yup. But clearly, you're wrong about "taking some occasional sticks n stones'. Some want none of it, some can dish it out but not take it (I find this particularly annoying, and there are some very guilty parties complaining in here), some will never see that they are slinging arrows, some will never recognize how wrong they are or how right others are OR THAT THERE ARE NO RIGHT ANSWERS. Or, that by answering you are feeding trolls/stirring the pot.
> 
> All just human nature.


Yeah but if you've come this far in life and haven't realized this is just how it is everywhere in every day life, not just the Internet then I don't know what to tell you.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Thread locked before we implode.


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