# What Pedal for a nice blues tone??



## Eric1623 (May 20, 2009)

Good Day,

I want to pick up a good pedal for a nice blues tone for my SRV Strat, I just have a small amp (Fender Frontman 15R). I already have the Boss DS-1.

I was thinking of getting a the Boss BD-2 Blues Driver , Ibanez TS808 Tube Screamer or the Radial Bones R800-7110 Taxas Overdrive.

I was also thinking of getting a reverb pedal becuase the amp reverb sucks, Like the Boss FRV-1 Fender 63' Rever or the Electro-Harmonix Holy Grail Digital Reverb.

What one would work best with my cheep Fender Amp on the clean channel? Any others I should look at?

Thanks for the help,

Eric


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Stay away from the BD-2. I have one and think it sounds wayyy too harsh and metallic. Especially with a solid state amp.

The TS808 is a no-brainer. That pedal sounds good with almost anything, although I've heard it's circuitry was designed specifically to interact with tube amp architecture. I don't know about that. I had a stock TS-9 reissue for a while that sounded great with my Frontman 25R.

Another good and really inexpensive option is the Boss SD-1. The SD-1 is a great sounding and versatile pedal and retails for under $70.

As for reverb, the EHX Holy Grail is great, but can be noisy, though I've heard nothing but good things about the Holy Grail+. I had a Dr. Scientist Radical Red Reverberator for a good long while and that was hands-down the best reverb pedal I've ever tried, but it's quite pricey.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

Cool Cat Transparent OD is nice, especially at $50.


Shawn


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I've fielded this question many many times, and my response is generally the same: *which* blues tone?

Hound Dog Taylor?
Robert Cray?
Gary Moore?
T-Bone Walker?
Johnny Winter?
Fenton Robinson?
Eric Clapton circa 1966?
Eric Clapton circa 1970?
Eric Clapton circa 2004?
Peter Green?
B.B. King?
Albert King?


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## The Grin (May 5, 2009)

I like the TS-9 reissue.. Im a metal guy but if i payed something lighter i would use this over my Jeckel and Hyde overdrive (love the distortion though). I see a lot of blues drivers on Kijiji where im at for cheap, and in the end if you dont like it then keep it around and trade it for somethin else. Also may want to check out some fuzz pedals.

As for Reverb, Electro-Harmonix Cathedral Pedal might be something worth looking into but i would probably go with the fender pedal.

Electro-Harmonix Cathedral Pedal
Boss FRV-1 Fender Reverb

Jimi Hendrix FuzzFace
MXR Fuzz Pedal


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## Eric1623 (May 20, 2009)

mhammer said:


> I've fielded this question many many times, and my response is generally the same: *which* blues tone?
> 
> Hound Dog Taylor?
> Robert Cray?
> ...


I would like to get a setup that I can get a few diffrent blues tones from a B.B King tone to a dirty blues tone like Big Sugar.

Thanks,

Eric


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

mhammer said:


> I've fielded this question many many times, and my response is generally the same: *which* blues tone?
> 
> Hound Dog Taylor?
> Robert Cray?
> ...


Hahaha Good question. I dunno, how do you put a pedal to a tone, a voice, an era, a moment? Lots of what we have as recordings of the day are very lo-fi (edit: In many ways, vinyl and tape and film either limited bandwidth or had a limited shelf life or limited number of plays, degenerating over time and use, what may have been perfect the first time the first day, here 50 years or more later is a different story), and they have a tone, and character that wasn't real even at the time the recordings were made. But we view those times through those recordings and want to make that sound.

Well, here is some youtube's anyways, would be great to hear what the OP is thinking too 

[video=youtube;teXOPAFMOp0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teXOPAFMOp0[/video] [video=youtube;tQ5VaBgXzuM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ5VaBgXzuM[/video] 
[video=youtube;I2k2nKPnq_s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2k2nKPnq_s[/video] [video=youtube;EGunfXr_Zfw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGunfXr_Zfw[/video]


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It is unlikely that you can get tones from BB King to Big Sugar through a single pedal. In BB King's case, he needs the sound of an amp that will not break up even if you threaten to murder its children in front of it. In the case of Big Sugar, you need to assault the amp with everything you've got.

That's a pretty big stretch for one puny pedal.

What this suggests to me is a combination of pedals.


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## Eric1623 (May 20, 2009)

Thanks for all the feedback,

Yes I will be looking at getting a few pedals but I want to get one or two at a time. I already have a DS-1, But i would like to get 6-7 more pedals (some of would be other stuff, like a delay, tunner and a wah pedal)

I looked at the L&M website and I might rent a TS9 and the FRV-1 from them for a week, to try it out.
I know the TS808 seems to be the way to go (from what I see in the reviews on the web), But would the TS9 give me a great blues tone to start with?

Eric


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## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

Why does a good blues tone have to reference anybody? You don't need to chase someone else's tone to find a good blues tone on your own.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Why do I have the feeling that this thread is going to be a long one.

No offence to the OP is intended, your question is reasonable.

Cheers

Dave


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Here's a suggestion, instead of spending all that money buying 6-7 pedals, why not buy a decent tube amp first? That way you'll have a good 'blues' tone to start with. Look for a used Peavey Classic 30 or a Fender Blues Jr for a start. It would be much better than buying a bunch of pedals and plugging them into that Frontman. The FRV pedal alone will set you back $150+ and then add at least another $100 for the OD pedal, that's already $250. You can get a C30 for $400 used.

Just a suggestion that you might want to look into.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Chito said:


> Here's a suggestion, instead of spending all that money buying 6-7 pedals, why not buy a decent tube amp first? That way you'll have a good 'blues' tone to start with. Look for a used Peavey Classic 30 or a Fender Blues Jr for a start. It would be much better than buying a bunch of pedals and plugging them into that Frontman. The FRV pedal alone will set you back $150+ and then add at least another $100 for the OD pedal, that's already $250. You can get a C30 for $400 used.
> 
> Just a suggestion that you might want to look into.


I thought the same thing, but I thought initially the OP just wanted one pedal.

Eric1623, I agree with Chito. If you're planning on spending that much money, you might as well save up and get yourself a nice amp. You've already got a great axe in the SRV Strat, so do yourself a favour and hear what that guitar is supposed to sound like. The Peavey Classic 30 and the Fender Blues Jr are both great suggestions. I'll throw a Traynor YCV40 in there as well. That's another fantastic tube amp that has a great built-in reverb and two usable channels.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

greco said:


> Why do I have the feeling that this thread is going to be a long one.
> 
> No offence to the OP is intended, your question is reasonable.
> 
> ...



 I think it may be because BLUES never got as chopped up into categories as a lot of other musical sounds have. Too many players over too many decades. Which is also why mhammer showed how dramatically opposite the two tones are that he described.

Also, the Fuzz Face, the first pedal, is a late comer. Blues was played for years before any such device was created.

Personally, I would ask the question more like this "I love Eartha Kitt's growly voice, what pedal would give that kind of slow low growl?" (using her as I am not UP on the sounds of the others but the idea holds I think.... hmm).


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## Eric1623 (May 20, 2009)

Chito said:


> Here's a suggestion, instead of spending all that money buying 6-7 pedals, why not buy a decent tube amp first? That way you'll have a good 'blues' tone to start with. Look for a used Peavey Classic 30 or a Fender Blues Jr for a start. It would be much better than buying a bunch of pedals and plugging them into that Frontman. The FRV pedal alone will set you back $150+ and then add at least another $100 for the OD pedal, that's already $250. You can get a C30 for $400 used.
> 
> Just a suggestion that you might want to look into.


I would love to use a good Amp but I live in a condo that is not insulated very well. I have a messa boggie express 525 with the 10" in storage, it is way to loud (to get the sweet sound you need to put it up even at swiched down to 5 watts it is way too loud) I was looking at a few tube amps, I think it was a VOX it went down to 1/4 watt. I like the volume on the Frontman,It has a great clean channel and it works well in my condo.

Thanks for the feedback,

Eric


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

greco said:


> Why do I have the feeling that this thread is going to be a long one.
> 
> No offence to the OP is intended, your question is reasonable.
> 
> ...


I think it is (eventually) a reasonable question too, and one that deserves a considered response. But, it is a good deal more complicated than the OP realized.
The prospect of the amp's role has been raised, but we have yet to hear any mention of guitar or pickups. I do not wish to get into any pissing contest about what pickups or gutar are "best for blues". However, it is worth considering that any pedal which has such a strong personality that it will sound the same _regardless_ of what guitar, amp, or pickups are in use, is likely not the sort of nuanced tone that is appropriate for music that is as emotive and demanding of dynamic shifts as blues.

So, I'll ask a second question to complement my first one: "What will you be playing most of the time (gear-wise) when you play blues?" That will help to determine what sort of pedals might be able to nudge your* starting *tone in a desired direction. For example, if you normally play an axe with super-overwound humbuckers, then that suggests something different than if you played a lipstick-equipped Danelectro, or an Ibanez Pat Metheny model semi-acoustic.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Go for the TS-9 - you just can't go wrong. Another thought might be a couple Visual Sound pedals. The Route 66 has a very good take on the TS-9 PLUS a great compressor. Forget about reverb for now and invest in a bit of delay - another great VS pedal would be the H20 - Delay and Chorus.

Another consideration giving your living situation would be a Vox Tonelab - you could get just about anything out of it and use the Frontman, headphones, or your home stereo to amp it up.

There ya go ......... definitive :food-smiley-015:


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Come on guys ,, the best pedal is .. the gas pedal... go down to the crossroad sell your soul ... 

Haven't you guys learnt anything ? Kenny missed the ride though
[YOUTUBE]iMbHPHtQhCg[/YOUTUBE]


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## copperhead (May 24, 2006)

id staw away from the boss bd2 too fizzy sounding even modded i could not find a good strat sound . i have a ts9dx with the 4554 chip its sounds great nice n creamy n smooth .also i have a stock boss superoverdrive thats sounds goods alot like the ts9 with a little less mids i would try to get your hands on .a dano cool cat drive its suppose to sound like the ocd or the transparent overdrive suppose to sound like the timmy great bang for the buck as for tubescreamer clones every body makes them except boss even gfs makes them
http://store.guitarfetish.com/gfsfootpedals.html


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Here's a nice pair: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K2yt9acQEI&feature=related

here's another nice pair: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma6HjVb3doM


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

mhammer said:


> Here's a nice pair: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K2yt9acQEI&feature=related
> 
> here's another nice pair: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma6HjVb3doM



Ooo I like Jack Blacks (Or "the guy that sounds JUST LIKE Jack Black) reviews. LOL I was first just listening and thinking "why is Mark posting Benny Hill..." LMAO!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I realized after that....ummm..... my post may have had several* different* interpretations. Rest assured, I will do my best to stay within the bounds of good taste and gender equality.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Eric1623 said:


> Thanks for all the feedback,
> 
> Yes I will be looking at getting a few pedals but I want to get one or two at a time. I already have a DS-1, But i would like to get 6-7 more pedals (some of would be other stuff, like a delay, tunner and a wah pedal)
> 
> ...


The TS9 will sound just fine. Sure it doesn't have the "mojo" chip in it anymore and the TS808 does, but that doesn't mean the TS9 reissue isn't any good. I had a reissue TS9 for a good long while and used it with great success on solid state and tube amps. I now have a vintage 1983 TS9 with the JRC4558 chip and it's an absolute beast, but is it hugely different from what I heard from the reissue? I don't know, I don't have them to compare side-by-side, but it's not like I turned on my '83 TS9 and thought everything else that came before was crud.

You mentioned the Vox AC4. It's definitely a nice amp and I've been considering getting one for myself as a practice amp for home use, but I suspect even a 1/4 watt tube amp will be a bit loud. You'd have to try it at the store to see (or better yet, take one home with you). Have you ever had noise complaints that you've put your Boogie in storage, or are you being a proactively nice neighbour?

I will still support the SD-1 and the TS9 as your best options for versatile blues sounds. I have an OCD and it's fantastic, but I think it's too compressed and crunch for a blues sound. I had a Timmy for a while too and really liked it, but I don't think it would react quite as nicely with a solid-state amp as it does with tubes.


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## Eric1623 (May 20, 2009)

hollowbody said:


> The TS9 will sound just fine. Sure it doesn't have the "mojo" chip in it anymore and the TS808 does, but that doesn't mean the TS9 reissue isn't any good. I had a reissue TS9 for a good long while and used it with great success on solid state and tube amps. I now have a vintage 1983 TS9 with the JRC4558 chip and it's an absolute beast, but is it hugely different from what I heard from the reissue? I don't know, I don't have them to compare side-by-side, but it's not like I turned on my '83 TS9 and thought everything else that came before was crud.
> 
> You mentioned the Vox AC4. It's definitely a nice amp and I've been considering getting one for myself as a practice amp for home use, but I suspect even a 1/4 watt tube amp will be a bit loud. You'd have to try it at the store to see (or better yet, take one home with you). Have you ever had noise complaints that you've put your Boogie in storage, or are you being a proactively nice neighbour?
> 
> I will still support the SD-1 and the TS9 as your best options for versatile blues sounds. I have an OCD and it's fantastic, but I think it's too compressed and crunch for a blues sound. I had a Timmy for a while too and really liked it, but I don't think it would react quite as nicely with a solid-state amp as it does with tubes.


Thanks for the feedback, I am trying to be a proactively nice neighbor, I know my place is not as insulated as a thought when I got it. Someday I will buy a house and then I will be using a full tube amp, most likely a Fender Reverb amp of some sort (I am going to get rid of my storage space and my Boogie).

I liked the Vox AC4 but it is still a bit loud, I might take a second look at it but most likely sick with the Fender 15R.

I will try and rent the TS9 for a weekend and maybe the SD-1.

-Eric


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The only real differences between the TS-9 and SD-1 is that the SD-1 uses a 2+1 diode complement for clipping and the TS-9 uses a 1+1 diode complement, and the SD-1 has somewhat higher gain than the TS-9 (because it can afford to). Other than that, they are for all intents and purposes identical. 

The 2+1 arrangement is sometimes described as "asymmetrical clipping", though that description only applies under certain conditions. What it does is raise the clipping threshold higher on one side of the signal waveform, such that one half of the signal is more likely to be clipping than the other. Since clipping sets a maximum on the volume level, the SD-1 is in a position to be louder than the TS-9 without requiring more distortion in order to do so. The 3-diode arangement also permits a little more dynamics in the sound, and a less compressed feel.

I sold a TS-808 clone to Tony D of Monkeyjunk about 2 years ago, ostensibly to replace his lost/damaged vintage TS-9. It was built to 808 spec but included a 4th "warp" control. By adding a variable resistance in series with ONE of the clipping diodes, you could adjust the asymmetry of the clipping, such that the two clipping diodes could work equivalently, or one could clip at just a little higher than the other, or a lot higher. It essentially allowed one to have continuously variable asymmetry, as opposed to simply being forced to choose between the degree of symmetry/asymmetry coming from either 2 or 3 diodes.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

I have a Marshall Bluesbreaker pedal that I use with my solid state amp. Don't remember the price, but you should put it on your tryout list. I also use it in combination with a DS-1.

If you want to save some time you could take your guitar and amp (and your DS-1) into your local guitar shop and get them to hook up all of the pedals you want to try and give them all a good head to head comparison. It probably won't take long to narrow it down to two or three pedals - then, if you're still not sure, rent your favourites for a week.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

mhammer said:


> The only real differences between the TS-9 and SD-1 is that the SD-1 uses a 2+1 diode complement for clipping and the TS-9 uses a 1+1 diode complement, and the SD-1 has somewhat higher gain than the TS-9 (because it can afford to). Other than that, they are for all intents and purposes identical.
> 
> The 2+1 arrangement is sometimes described as "asymmetrical clipping", though that description only applies under certain conditions. What it does is raise the clipping threshold higher on one side of the signal waveform, such that one half of the signal is more likely to be clipping than the other. Since clipping sets a maximum on the volume level, the SD-1 is in a position to be louder than the TS-9 without requiring more distortion in order to do so. The 3-diode arangement also permits a little more dynamics in the sound, and a less compressed feel.
> 
> I sold a TS-808 clone to Tony D of Monkeyjunk about 2 years ago, ostensibly to replace his lost/damaged vintage TS-9. It was built to 808 spec but included a 4th "warp" control. By adding a variable resistance in series with ONE of the clipping diodes, you could adjust the asymmetry of the clipping, such that the two clipping diodes could work equivalently, or one could clip at just a little higher than the other, or a lot higher. It essentially allowed one to have continuously variable asymmetry, as opposed to simply being forced to choose between the degree of symmetry/asymmetry coming from either 2 or 3 diodes.



Hey Mark, any experience with any of the old Signal/Ratio Detector double diode tubes being used for clipping? Like the 6H6 http://www.nj7p.org/Tube4.php?tube=6H6 or the 6AL5 http://www.nj7p.org/Tube4.php?tube=6AL5 ?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

bw66 said:


> I have a Marshall Bluesbreaker pedal that I use with my solid state amp..... .


I have a friend that uses this pedal with an SS amp. He gets some great blues tones out of the combination.

IMHO, bw66 is giving you good advice about trying out/comparing the pedals in the store using your own guitar and amp.

Cheers

Dave


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

keeperofthegood said:


> Hey Mark, any experience with any of the old Signal/Ratio Detector double diode tubes being used for clipping? Like the 6H6 http://www.nj7p.org/Tube4.php?tube=6H6 or the 6AL5 http://www.nj7p.org/Tube4.php?tube=6AL5 ?


Nope. No. Nada. (did I make my character minimum?)


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

mhammer said:


> Nope. No. Nada. (did I make my character minimum?)



hahahaha

XD may be interesting how soft a clipping one of those would give. Hmm.... up for an experiment?


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## Eric1623 (May 20, 2009)

L&M let me rent a TS-808, I can not wait to get off work tonight to test it out!!


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

I have owned the Boss Overdrive, EHX Nano Muff and LPB-1 in the past. I recently tried out a Tubescreamer and a Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive for some SRV type blues tones. I really liked both the Tubescreamer and the Sparkle Drive. Actually I think the Sparkle Drive was my favorite. I proceeded to scour the net for a used version of either. I ended up finding a used Turbo Tubescreamer for a great deal, shipped to my home out of Calif. The Turbo model has the original TS-9 and well other other settings. I only use the TS-9 setting and quite like it. I do think I still want to track down a used Sparkle Drive too though. When combining both pedals my sound is hard enough for some heavier rock. The TS-9DX on it's own is not enough for hard rock in my opinion.



If you want to hear the TS-9DX you can here:

[http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8669340

I also read earlier you may be interested in a delay and a reverb. I have the EHX Holy Grail and am very happy with it. It is very good. I also have a MXR Carbon Copy analog delay. It's very good too. They both can be had used for really reasonable prices and are decent pedals.


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## denthevetteman7 (Dec 14, 2009)

I bought my TS9 back in '85 so i have the original one and i used it for SRV kind of blues, other than that i just use the clean channel without any pedal.


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## Eric1623 (May 20, 2009)

I realy like the tone from the TS-808, I just need to find a nice reverb petal now.

Thanks for all your help and feedback,

Eric


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

I was window shopping at the EHX website yesterday and I was really impressed by the video demos posted for the *Holy Grail* reverb pedal. The "Flerb" setting is one of those quirky EHX additions that really make it for me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJDEcLTyYdU&feature=player_embedded

Shawn.


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## copperhead (May 24, 2006)

i found this very interesting if you could get your hands on 1
http://www.oldtonezone.com/2009/01/holy-fire-overdrive-distortion-demo/
theres a od comparinator thats kind of cool a whole bunch of pedals to compare
http://www.oldtonezone.com/distortionoverdrive-pedal-shootout/the-od-pedal-comparinator/


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## Eric1623 (May 20, 2009)

Rugburn said:


> I was window shopping at the EHX website yesterday and I was really impressed by the video demos posted for the *Holy Grail* reverb pedal. The "Flerb" setting is one of those quirky EHX additions that really make it for me.
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJDEcLTyYdU&feature=player_embedded
> ...


How does the Holy Grail reverb compare to The Boss RV-5 Digital Reverb?

Thanks,

Eric


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The RV-5 clearly has far more flexibility than the HG or HG Plus.

Of course sonic specifics are always a matter of taste.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

Eric1623 said:


> How does the Holy Grail reverb compare to The Boss RV-5 Digital Reverb?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Eric


I have no idea Eric. I have good spring reverb in my tube amp, and the Micro Cube I play most often has a Boss digital reverb built in. I would imagine the pedal offers much more than the simple dial on the MC. I find the digital reverb is decent enough on the amp, but I can't speak for the pedal. The only complaint I've heard about the *Holy Grail* is that they can be noisy. This comes up constantly in reviews of this pedal. There are better units on the market no doubt, but they're expensive. I liked the demos, but it's one of those things you have try out yourself.

Cheers, Shawn


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Another great Reverb pedal is the Digitech Hardwire Reverb. Just got one and it sounds great. I have the Holy Grail as well but find it sometimes too noisy and definitely not as flexible as the Hardwire.


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