# 10s on j 45 opinion



## jimmy c g (Jan 1, 2008)

seemed I was struggling a bit with 12s on my gib so I tried 10s, much easier BUT weak soundin to my ears, so much my wife complained! so back to 12s today and the tone is back , action a bit stiffer but better stiff than limp... and with a guitar you dont have to see a doctor if its stiff longer than 4 hours !


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

Anything less that 12's on a Jumbo sounds thin and buzzy to me.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Weaker how? 

Try a non-balanced (e.g. heavy top light bottom) or 'jazz' guage set. Also, try another brand.

Other issues might include playing 10s on an axe set up for 12s (especuially nut and saddle - can lose tone there). Going bigger is easier than going smaller unfortunately.


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## jimmy c g (Jan 1, 2008)

weaker in projection and tone, just not as robust or full sounding, and also not as loud, i dont think nut and saddle work would help in these areas imo


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

I think the 10s just wouldn't drive the top enough. Why not try 11s?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Me I wouldn't use anything lighter than 13's. But if 12's is what makes it sound better for you why don't you try Martin Monel MM12. I use the MTR 13's on my mahogany guitar and they sound great. The strings feel lighter than normal mediums but still give me the nice big tone, so maybe the MM12 will feel lighter than Pb or 80/20 lights.


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## jimmy c g (Jan 1, 2008)

on my list guitarman2 thanks for the tip


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

i like my John Pearse 11-50 set. I couldn't play the Taylor with what L&M had on there.


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## Larry (Sep 3, 2016)

I have never tried it with an acoustic, but what about tuning the guitar down 1/2 step or even try alternate tunings with 12-53 strings.
Just a thought.


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## jimmy c g (Jan 1, 2008)

tried that awhile ago and just too odd for me, others do like it tho so goood point


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

I always liked the feel of 10s and the sound of 12s.
I settled on a compromise of 11s a few years ago and have never looked back.


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

Like the playability of 10's on my J50 and the added brightness, but 12's and 13's sound louder and more full. Everything has some give/take, it seems.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I can't imagine playing strings lighter than 12's on an acoustic. 12's are light.

10's are for electric.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Weaker how?
> 
> Try a non-balanced (e.g. heavy top light bottom) or 'jazz' guage set. Also, try another brand.
> 
> Other issues might include playing 10s on an axe set up for 12s (especuially nut and saddle - can lose tone there). Going bigger is easier than going smaller unfortunately.


Changing from 12's to 10's may affect the action on your guitar and it will most definitely affect your tone but it's not because the nut and saddle are setup for 10's. I'm not even sure what that means. How do you "setup" an acoustic saddle? You stick the string in and put the pin in. There's nothing more to adjust. As for the nut as long as the string isn't binding in it there's nothing to adjust.

Seems like you're thinking electric where you have to adjust the action and intonation when changing from one gauge of strings to another.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Guncho said:


> Seems like you're thinking electric where you have to adjust the action and intonation when changing from one gauge of strings to another.


I was (can't slip one by you eh, Gunchman?) - clicked on the thread from New Posts and didn't see the it was the acoustic forum (also somehow missed the J45 in the title - assumed it was all guage numbers).

Anway oversize nut slots can still rob you of tone on an acoustic; same things apply just not all in the same ways (and you CAN adjust action on an acoustic - any good one will have a truss rod and you can shim or shave the nut/saddle as required).


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Granny Gremlin said:


> I was (can't slip one by you eh, Gunchman?) - clicked on the thread from New Posts and didn't see the it was the acoustic forum (also somehow missed the J45 in the title - assumed it was all guage numbers).
> 
> Anway oversize nut slots can still rob you of tone on an acoustic; same things apply just not all in the same ways (and you CAN adjust action on an acoustic - any good one will have a truss rod and you can shim or shave the nut/saddle as required).


Didn't say otherwise Gremdood.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Granny Gremlin said:


> numbers).
> 
> (and you CAN adjust action on an acoustic - any good one will have a truss rod


Okay now this is funny. And not because an adjustable truss rod has nothing to do with setting action.
I guess my guitars aren't good ones.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

There's an exception to every rule, I suppose. Also, talking steel string not classical/ nylon string.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Granny Gremlin said:


> There's an exception to every rule, I suppose. Also, talking steel string not classical/ nylon string.


Both of my acoustics are steel string. Both do not have adjustable truss rods. They have steel T-bar non adjustable truss rods with which the relief is set at the factory. Both of them were built to exact pre war specs in this way. In my opinion this was the correct way to build them.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Adjustable truss rods affect tone somehow?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Adjustable truss rods affect tone somehow?


So they say. I believe it does but wouldn't say that with any technical authority. There are a few things that my guitars differ in than the Martin lines below them. No popsicle brace. Authentic style scallop bracing. None adjustable truss rod, hot hide glue, Adirondack tops. Basically the lightest built guitars that Martin produces. There are some other pre war type features as well. I've played many acoustics in my 53 years of playing and these Authentics just resonate through my whole body. I've played a couple of actual pre war Martins that rivaled them and even an early 50's mystery top. But then I haven't played as many of the old ones as others so I'm sure that these Authentics wouldn't be quite what you could get in a prewar but they are the best that Martin is producing right now.
Collings is following Martins lead with a line called "Traditional" and I can't wait for Folkway to get one in for me to get my hands on for a comparison.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

guitarman2 said:


> Okay now this is funny. And not because an adjustable truss rod has nothing to do with setting action.
> I guess my guitars aren't good ones.


Adjusting the truss rod (if you have one) absolutely affects action. 

It affects string height.

What is action if not string height?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Guncho said:


> Adjusting the truss rod (if you have one) absolutely affects action.
> 
> It affects string height.
> 
> What is action if not string height?


Yes it affects action but those who do it to set action are doing it wrong. Adjustable truss rod is for relief not setting action.
The action was lowered just a hair on my D-28 by Folkway when I first bought it. This wasn't done by truss rod obviously because its not adjustable. But then it didn't need to be adjusted cause it was done right at the factory. Due to the Steel T-bar trussrod and the relatively large neck its not likely to move from season to season like my HD-28V did.
I got my D-28 authentic in July and the humidity in the house was as high as 60% and this winter I try to keep my office, where the guitars are at about 35% but several times its been as low as 25% and the neck did not move one noticeable bit. My HD-28V under those conditions, in the summer the action was almost too high to play and in the winter the strings were just about on the fret board and buzzing all over the place. This is why the adjustable truss rod was needed. Season change give it a turn.
If the adjustable truss rod was needed for setting action then every guitar would have to have one. Martin didn't start using adjustable trussrods till about 1985. I think Gibson started using them in the early 60's. Not sure if they invented them or not. In my opinion the adjustable trussrod was a compromise.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Nut height, relief and saddle height all fall under the action umbrella in my books.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Guncho said:


> I can't imagine playing strings lighter than 12's on an acoustic. 12's are light.
> 
> 10's are for electric.


I agree. I use 11's on one of my acoustics (the 50+ year old Cedar top Yamaki) out of mechanical sympathy. It still sounds surprisingly good with 11's - but not as good as 12's. I think anything less than 12's is a tonal compromise. Most tops need some force to move them and lighter strings produce less force. It will still 'sound', just not as good, IMO.


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

Digging the 10's on the J-50 now that I'm used to them. Can fret and bend them better up the neck - pretty much get the same feel as my electrics. Think they'll be staying a while...


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