# NPD,,,, now the fun begins



## Bobby1note (Jan 6, 2014)

Well, the mailman just dropped off two new pedals for me,,, an Empress Germ-Drive, and an Empress Distortion, along with an Evidence Audio SiS wiring kit. Time to start preparing my new pedal-boards.:smile-new:

This will be my first-ever attempt at putting together a pedal-board,,, and really,, my first experience with pedals, period. Any last minute "tips" that you guys would have, would be greatly appreciated, especially where making solder-less interconnects is concerned. I've got a decent wire-stripper handy, and I'll probably pick up some good wire-cutters this afternoon. Last week, I picked up a bit of "Industrial Strength" Velcro, just in case. I've also got drills for mounting the power-supply brackets. At one point, I'll also make some pedal-sized "spacers" that I can fit under some of the back-row pedals (if required). These spacers would lift the back-row pedals slightly (1/2"-3/4"), to allow easier access to their foot-switches, and would be velcro'd on both sides.

The first board, will be an "acoustic-guitar and vocals" pedal-board, designed specifically for going direct to a mix-console.(no amp required). This board will initially consist of a PedalTrain Jr. with a CIOKS DC-10 power-supply, and will be broken down into two sections, vocals, and guitar. 

The vocal processor is a T.C. Helicon Voice-Live Play, which will be powered via the CIOKS DC-10.(12v/400mA). That pedal requires XLR connections (in and out), and I've got a bunch of right-angled XLR mic-cables, which will allow me more leeway in placing my pedals on the board. The VL-Play has a sloped front (3 foot-switches), so it has to be mounted on the front row of the pedal-board. If it were mounted on the back row, I'd probably be stepping on the knobs of the front-row pedals. Straight XLR connectors would simply stick out too far behind the unit, interfering with the back-row of the pedal-board, and could be susceptible to "accidents". The right-angled cables allow me to drop the barrel of the XLR connectors down, between the slats of the PT.Jr., and conserve space. The XLR connectors will also be well protected in that location.

The guitar section will revolve around a Radial PZ-Pre (combination pre-amp/active D.I.). This unit has an FX-loop, into which I'll have the usual acoustic-guitar effects,,, chorus, delay, and reverb,,, and I'll be experimenting with some type of fuzz or o'drive, mostly for slide resonator guitar. This Radial pedal can be somewhat awkward to place on such a compact pedal-bord, since it has inputs and outputs on both sides, as well as the rear. You have to allow for access to remove and insert cable-plugs. Power requirement is 15v/ center-positive, which the CIOKS DC-10 provides.

The PZ-Pre is just a great pedal for this application. Radial has built their reputation on quality D.I.'s, and this pedal has two instrument inputs for passive and active pick-ups, a "tuner out",,, and FX loop,,, two XLR outs with 180 degree phase-reverse on one of those outputs. It has bass, mids, and treble control, with a sweepable notch-filter with variable "Q".(depth of cut). It also has a variable "boost" for leads, a variable hi-pass filter, and a 'mute" switch. You also have an additional 1/4" "out", in case you want to use a combo-amp as a stage-monitor. A very versatile unit indeed. Although it's a fairly wide pedal (3 footswitches/ 8" wide), the front-to-back depth, is only 4", and even when mounted on the front row of a PT Jr., you've still got room for straight XLR connectors out the back of the pedal, without affecting the back-row pedals. Mind you, right-angled XLR's allow for even more spacing flexibility, especially if you're mounting full-sized pedals (not "mini's") on the back row of the pedal-board.

The CIOKS DC-10 will easily handle all of the FX pedals, as well as the tuner, and looper (Ditto), with power to spare. Those pedals are all by T.C. Electronic, so even if I were to stack all of those pedals on one 9v/400mA outlet, there should be no ground-loop issues. However, since there's no more room left on that pedal-board, I'll be using separate power-outlets.

Time to get cracking. :smile-new: I'll try to post some pics once it's done and tested. I'll start the "electric-guitar" board, once this acoustic board is done.


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## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

Happy for you !!!

Make us some nice juicy clips !!


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## Bobby1note (Jan 6, 2014)

Thanks Louis, but I'm off to a rocky start.:Smiley-fart:

I've got to figure out how's the best way to insert the Ditto looper in the signal-chain,,,, pre or post FX? Hmmm. Same situation for the o'drives/fuzz. Those will probably have to go at the front of the FX loop, since I see no benefit from running them in front of the Radial PZ-Pre. This could force me to remove the VoiceLive Play from the pedal-board, due to the location of the i/o jacks. Placing that vocal-processor on the floor, next to the pedal-board rather than on it, would not be a bad thing. Gotta think about this before cutting my interconnect cables.

Aside from the Evidence Audio SiS kits which I have to cut and assemble, I also have a bunch of 6" Fender interconnects. I think it might be best to use those Fenders for now, and hook everything up loosely on the floor, rather than on the pedal-board, then see what sounds best. Once I know for sure, I can re-mount them on the pedal-board. As it stands, I have very little room to play with on the pedal-board. (17" wide) I had originally wanted a 20"-22" wide pedal-board for this application, but couldn't find one. Nobody had them in-stock. The 17" PT Jr "works", but it's a tight squeeze. 

Worst-case scenario, I could always cut some aluminum "angle stock", and fasten it to the side of the PT Jr., flush with the top of the pedal-board. This would effectively increase the width of the board by 1"-1.5". As long as it still fits in the case, I'd be OK with that.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I put my.looper at the end.of all the effects. It's. Also in my effects loop.

I also put all the highest gain pedals first and all in front of the amp.

I use a.razor to cut the cables to keep them as straight as possible.

Sorry for the Grammer. My new.phone makes.me nuts.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


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## Bobby1note (Jan 6, 2014)

adcandour said:


> I put my.looper at the end.of all the effects. It's. Also in my effects loop.
> 
> *I also put all the highest gain pedals first and all in front of the amp.*
> 
> ...


Hi Adcandour,

This particular pedal-board will run straight into a mixer, and into a P/A, so there's no amp involved. As far as I can see, all of the effects will have to run through the FX-loop of the Radial pre-amp/D.I. It may be possible to run the gain pedals "up front", but I just don't see a benefit when used with this particular pedal-board. I'll try it though, to see what happens.

As for placing the looper at the end of the FX-loop, that makes sense. I'm still not sure that I'll even use that looper for "live" performance. It's probably great for practice though. It'll go on the board for now.

I'm still playing "Tetris" with my pedals. I've found a few good layouts, but I'd need at least one right-angle *male* XLR connector, in order to make it work. I thought I had one in my P/A kit, but no such luck. All of my current right-angle XLR cable connectors are female. Looks like I might have to make a trip into Montreal to get one, or, I can call Studio Economik, and ask them to send me a few.


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

Empress Germ Drive didn't sound good at all to me - nothing like any Ge-based pedal I've ever played/owned. Hope you have a better experience and cotton to it's tone better than I did...:confusion:


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

You could always mount some of these feed through, panel mount connectors...
http://www.redco.com/NA3FDM.html

I've mounted the 1/4" feed through connectors on a couple of boards now, http://www.redco.com/Redco-PM-TRS-TRS.html
it's a cleaner look and you're not having to connect to pedals with your instrument cables.
It can simplify the arrangement of the pedals too.


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## Bobby1note (Jan 6, 2014)

gtone said:


> Empress Germ Drive didn't sound good at all to me - nothing like any Ge-based pedal I've ever played/owned. Hope you have a better experience and cotton to it's tone better than I did...:confusion:


I saw a few very interesting demo's of the Empress Fuzz, Germ-Drive, and Distortion. I'll keep my fingers crossed in the hope that it works out. I'm trying to find something that will work with an acoustic-electric resonator guitar that I bought recently. I over-bought as far as fuzz, drive, boost, and distortion goes, but that's because it's not worthwhile for me to drive to Montreal to try them out. I'll see what "works" and what doesn't, and go from there.

Also, I'm a complete noob as far as pedals are concerned. I've been playing acoustic for 50 years, so this is uncharted territory for me. There's going to be a lot of experimentation over the next little while. I've bought lots of "electric" gear over the years,,, but virtually all the guys I play with, are "acoustic" guys, so I just never got into "electric". I've got electric guitars and amps up the yang, and some of our recent band practices have been going electric, so that's a good sign. 

As far as electric guitars are concerned, I have a PRS Custom 24,,, a Gibson ES-175,,, Gibson Les Paul Custom,,, American Strat-Plus Deluxe,,, and an American Tele. Also quite a few electric/acoustic guitars (Taylors, Martin, Ovation, Guilds, Godin, Gretsch, etc) . Lots of nylon-string guitars as well as banjo's, mandolin, uke, and round-neck resonator.

As far as amps are concerned, I've got a few solid-state amps (AER Compact 60/2 acoustic amp,,,Fender G-DEC Thirty,,,Fender Mustang III,,, Roland JC-77,,,, and the tube amps are a Mesa-Boogie Mk,III Signature Ed.,, Fender Hot-Rod III Deluxe Ltd. Ed.,,,and a Fender Super-Sonic Twin (100w/25w). There's also a hand-wired Vox AC-30HW2x on the way, but that's been back-ordered since May, 2013.

Basically, what I'm doing these days is hosting jams. I provide the space, as well as the P/A and back-line gear, and the guys come over and play whatever strikes our fancy at that moment. Could be anything from folk to Foo Fighters,,, and anything in between. Mostly though, it's 60's, 70's classic-rock, and British Invasion stuff. We also noodle around with Bluegrass. We go "all out" at these jams, with a full P/A,,, mic'd drum-kit,,, bass,,, latin-percussion, and keyboard, and full room, stage, and dance-floor LED lighting, complete with lasers. You'd swear you're in a bar. Most of the people that are first-time visitors, are shocked with the set-up,,, but we sure have funnn!!! :smile-new:.


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## Bobby1note (Jan 6, 2014)

sulphur said:


> You could always mount some of these feed through, panel mount connectors...
> http://www.redco.com/NA3FDM.html
> 
> I've mounted the 1/4" feed through connectors on a couple of boards now, http://www.redco.com/Redco-PM-TRS-TRS.html
> ...


Sulphur,,, that's just a great way to go. Precisely what I've been thinking of doing. I've had a heckuva time finding male right-angle XLR connectors locally,,, but I finally found some at Addison Electric in Montreal. They also have the panel-jacks. I'm either going to go there, or have them send me the stuff this week.

How did you drill the pedalboard for the panel-jacks? Just progressively larger bits?


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Bobby1note said:


> Well, the mailman just dropped off two new pedals for me,,, an Empress Germ-Drive, and an Empress Distortion,


I have the Empress Distortion and love it--it's quite versatile and I can get a lot of different sounds from it.

Enjoy the experimenting with pedal order and settings.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Measure, or eyeball the placement, then center punch.
A smaller pilot hole first, the bit I used to drill the holes for the rivets, 1/8" bit.
Then, use a 7/8" hole saw through the pilot hole.

There's a structural spanner within and between the façade and inner panel you'll be drilling through,
so expect that while drilling with the hole saw.

There's a protruding notch where the lock is on the 1/4" jacks, so I had to file a corresponding notch in the hole.
I used 1/8" x 1/2" rivets to secure to jacks.

Other than the drill and the rivet gun, here's what I used...



You can see the pieces of the board after they are removed and that spanner.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

You could consider these too, I heard about them afterwards...
http://www.redco.com/Neutrik-SCDP.html

I heard something about a possible ground loop without them,
I haven't had a problem, but it's a preventative issue and it doesn't hurt to install them.


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## Bobby1note (Jan 6, 2014)

I've ordered a lot of gear from these guys,,, problem is they don't ship to Canada, so I have to route shipments from Washington State, down to my girlfriends' place in Florida, then back up here. Great prices though, and worthwhile if you order in bulk. Great selection too, and Mark and Liz (the owners), are just the greatest people to do business with.


http://www.audiopile.net/products/Adaptors_Connectors/XLR_Panel_Jacks/XLR_Panel_Jacks.shtml

http://www.audiopile.net/products/Adaptors_Connectors/XLR_Cord_Ends/XLR_Cord_Ends.shtml


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## Guest (Feb 3, 2014)

Thanks for the idea sulphur. Any chance you could post a picture of the bottom of your board?


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Here's a pic of the Jr I recently made up...


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## Bobby1note (Jan 6, 2014)

Beautiful work Sulphur. Well done.


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## Bobby1note (Jan 6, 2014)

Well, I finally got around to testing the CIOKS DC-10 power-supply and the Hall of Fame reverb today. There's usually not much you can say about a power-supply, other than it "works" or it doesn't,,, but the CIOKS has some very interesting features that place this unit a "step above". I especially liked the manner in which the AC power-cord locks into a tab at the rear of the CIOKS. Once you insert the power-cord, the strain-relief on the plug, butts up against a notched tab, and the cord itself, fits into the notch of that tab. It's virtually impossible for the power-cord to come loose, or accidentally pulled out. Also, when the power-cord is inserted, it covers the dip-switch panel, as well as the AC power-selector switch, so they can't accidentally be reset during operation. With attention to detail like that on the exterior of the box, it just gives me added confidence that the guts of the box has been similarly constructed. I was also a bit surprised at how many cables they included. I think Charles at Electric Mojo Guitars, has a real winner on his hands with this product.

http://www.electricmojoguitars.com/cioks-power-supplies/

I also got to noodle around with the Hall of Fame reverb today. I brought out one of my acoustic guitars with a Fishman magnetic soundhole pick-up,,, plugged it into my AER Compact 60/2,,,, found a neutral EQ setting,,, then selected a "spring" reverb,,,, set the toggle to a short pre-delay,,,, set the FX-level and decay at 2 o'clock, and launched into a little Moody Blues ,,,"Tuesday Afternoon". Perfect !!! Exactly what I was looking for. The key though, was finding that neutral EQ setting, before activating the reverb. When activated, the reverb neither subtracted nor added to, the volume of the amp. There was zero "self-noise", and so far, I'm a happy camper. IMO, the pedal has already paid for itself. :smile-new:


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Here's the bottom of the PT-1, my band board...



Not much for cable management, just some twist ties on the power cables and the runs between the pedals is kept to a minimum.
There's a Voodoo Labs Digital and a PP2+ mounted underneath.


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## Bobby1note (Jan 6, 2014)

Sulphur, where did you buy the PT 1's? Every place that I've tried, never seems to have them in stock.

I've been thinking about going back to Charles place, to check out his BlackBird pedal boards. Those already have the locking input/output jacks installed, and it works out cheaper than buying a PedalTrain board, and installing after-market panel-jacks.

http://www.electricmojoguitars.com/blackbird-pedalboards/


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

They came from Charles, actually. 8)

That was a while ago, I don't think that he carries them anymore.


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## Bobby1note (Jan 6, 2014)

sulphur said:


> They came from Charles, actually. 8)
> 
> That was a while ago, I don't think that he carries them anymore.



I had read somewhere, that the PT 1's, were "exclusive" to Guitar Center????


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

No, they're available anywhere.

Maybe GC had them with the flight cases, as the regular PT-1 cases are quite a lighter build.
They're here at L&M...http://www.long-mcquade.com/product...in/22_Inch_Pedalboard_with_Hardshell_Case.htm


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## Bobby1note (Jan 6, 2014)

sulphur said:


> No, they're available anywhere.
> 
> Maybe GC had them with the flight cases, as the regular PT-1 cases are quite a lighter build.
> They're here at L&M...http://www.long-mcquade.com/product...in/22_Inch_Pedalboard_with_Hardshell_Case.htm


Oooooo!!! Good price too. I've got a $25. gift certificate too. Hmmm.

Those PedlTrain "hard shell" cases are pretty flimsy though, aren't they? I saw one once, at ItalMelodie in Laval, and was somewhat underwhelmed. I haven't seen their "Flight" cases, so I don't know if they're decent or not.


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## Bobby1note (Jan 6, 2014)

sulphur said:


> No, they're available anywhere.
> 
> Maybe GC had them with the flight cases, as the regular PT-1 cases are quite a lighter build.
> They're here at L&M...http://www.long-mcquade.com/product...in/22_Inch_Pedalboard_with_Hardshell_Case.htm


Sulphur, have you got one of the hard-shell cases? Are they deep enough to comfortably hold the pedal-board with all your pedals mounted,,, yet holding the pedal-board reasonably firmly in place? I'm thinking of buying an after-market flight-case at a local dealers' annual inventory sale. I'm trying to determine what size I need, as well as the shape of the interior padding.


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## Bobby1note (Jan 6, 2014)

Regarding my new pedals, I'm still toying around with the CIOKS DC-10, and the TC Electronic Hall-of-Fame. I've managed to find a few very decent sounding re-verbs, so it's a keeper for my acoustic pedal-board,,,, but these certainly aren't on a par with the Lexicon re-verbs that I'm used to. Much more tweaking required on the H.o.F., and attention to pick-attack and EQ are really important.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I have the regular PT-1 case, it's of a lighter construction than the flight cases.

Yes, it holds the whole lot, no problem.
The board seems to be snuggly held within it.
Kind of a thinner rubber foam around the bottom and sides,
with a spongier and thicker foam within the lid.

There's still a bit of room around the board within the case too,
more to the top and bottom of the board, than the sides.
Probably enough room for a wah, if the board were shifted to one end of the case.


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