# ATTN: South-Western Ontario and Ottawa - North Bay forum members - A Question



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I have the extremely good fortune (I think) to have had my parents agree to get me my first car.

We're hoping to find a 97 or 98 full-size sedan in good condition, E-tested and certified/safetied for $3000-$3500. We're entirely open to a newer car if it falls in the price range, and meets specs.

*I'm wondering if anyone in the Ottawa region or South-west Ontario has any friends selling their vehicle, or are personally looking to sell their vehicle*. If you see a good deal, feel free to let me know as well!

The basics of what we're looking for:

- Good reliability
- Good mileage
- Reasonable mileage
- Trunk space - it has to hold a 412
- Suitable insurance-wise for a 21 year old driver with his G class license.

I'm personally after a 98 Toyota Camry CE if I can find one in that price range, but I'm open to options. With my parent's insurance company, it turns out that A) honda's are more expensive to insure than toyotas (I had my heart set on an accord or camry before), and B) Corolla's cost more to insure then Camry's. We aren't opposed to dealer vs. private sale, we just want a good vehicle that will last me a few years. I know that 2001 Oldsmobile Intrigue's can be had for $3500 or so, with nice options, but I don't know too much about their reliability. I know 2 people that have one though. Since my parents are buying the car for me, my dad will not purchase anything he does not test drive himself. If we do go the private sale route, we will take the car to a mechanic's to be checked out. I won't buy anything that's not already E-tested and Safetied, which I think makes sense.

If anyone can offer any help to get me into a new-to-me vehicle, I would greatly appreciate it!

Hopefully I'll have my own wheels by December, fingers crossed!

Thanks!


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

kqoct and here again I am made to realise you are NOT in your 30's


Personally? I will NEVER in my lifetime EVER own any FORD owned or made products again ever.

EVER.

So, if it isn't a FORD its good. Simply by the virtue of it not being FORD. If it says FORD on it (like my MAZDA said FORD on EVERY SINGLE PART even though FORD claimed "Oh no, its not a FORD it's a MAZDA", prepare to spend the spleen of your unborn grandson in repair costs, hassles, and corporate BS.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Well maybe you have had bad luck with Fords "Keeper" but I have had the opposite and being a former mechanic all makes have certain issues . 

Taurus is a pretty good bet Budda , a Station wagon would be a good choice for that 4x12 and the 3.0 is pretty good on fuel and a solid engine .
Olds and other GM's with the 3.1 and 3.4....stay away as those have leaking intake problems . OK if you can get proof that they have been repaired properly but other issues as well such as brakes stearing racks....etc . 

Toyota Camry would be a good choice for reliability/economical but not sure on the 4x12 fitting too good . Myself , I'm driving a 2000 Buick LeSabre with the 3800 engine and it gives excellent fuel milage , better than my 91 Corolla kqoct

In the end it's not what you buy a vehical for it's what you have to put into it to keep it going . How you drive and maintain any vehical is the key to how well they serve you .


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

+1 on the Toyotas

My brother has had Corolla and a Camry and both were good. The service was good. One job, the mechanic came to the house and did the part upgrade there just so he didn't have to wait at the dealership and any time the car needed to be at the dealership he got a loaner for the day otherwise. Oil change due, they would phone him and tell him to come on in, and all the basic maintenance was free.

If I were to do a car again, it would be a Toyota.

Though if I really had the cash, I would go for a Tesla >_>

http://www.teslamotors.com/


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

This one could turn into a vehicle debate pretty quickly. From my 24 years in the auto biz there is not an engine out there that can take more miles on it for less maintainance than the GM 3800. That engine has been in production for as long as I have been driving I think, or just about. They were going to drop it a while back, not sure what the plans are now. I try not to even watch car commercials since I got out of that rat race. I have had 3-4 cars that had them, supercharged models as well. Great engines.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I used to have a car with a Dodge "slant 6" engine in it. Those engines were also quite legendary apparently.

My current vehicle is a 2001 Ford Focus wagon, and while it is not even remotely would I would describe as a "good" car (in the sense of having plenty of great features) it has been quite well-behaved and cost-effective to run.

Apart from known, documented design flaws, I suspect every make and model has stinkers and winners....at least in MY price bracket. I'm sure there are makes/models where - boom-boom - EVERY one is a Maserati.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Thanks so far, guys. I'm hoping I can sweet talk my parents into upping the budget to $4000, since that will more than likely land me a 98 - which is 11 years old at this point (wow), vs $3500 which doesn't really leave much selection.

I've noticed that the Olds alero's and intrigues can be had in that $3500 price range, anything to make note of there?

What vehicles does the GM 3800 engine go into? I have also noticed that Pontiac Grand Am's are in the price range, not sure about insurance or reliability on those ones.

Nitehawk, *my* car (parents car, but we had 3 for a summer so I pretty much owned it) for 2008 was a 1990 camry LE - previously my grandfather's, then ours - we had it for 5 years, and it was only expected to last 3. Previous to that, we had an 89 (I think) accord (not sure what model, but it had a sunroof!). I could fit my 412 into the trunk of the camry with no problem, which is why I'm looking to most likely get another one. They're nice cars - my friend has his parents old 96 LE V6 over in BC, since they got a new truck.

If anyone has any highly recommended cars on the student budget, or knows of anyone looking to sell a good vehicle, please let me know 

Thanks guys, and keep the suggestions coming!

edit: found this, stupid good price so I asked if it includes e-test and safety.. something tells me that's 'as is", but $1500! http://london.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-1998-Toyota-Camry-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ166927988


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

The most popular application for the 3800 was the Grand Prix. I had the Grand Prix GTP version with the blower on it and I drove the snot out of that car for work. Put a lot of miles on it and never had an issue to speak of. The 3800 is the last of the push-rod engines. A simple yet extremely effective and reliable design. No OHC, a lot less moving parts. You can find them in older Regals, Impala's, Monte Carlo's

The Series II was the last production model I believe.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Thanks!

Is there any way to edit the title to include North Bay as well? 2 hours to ottawa or north bay for my parents.

I just found some camry listings in toronto, emailed them to my mom. It'll be a while yet before anything definitive happens, I think.

wouldn't mind this one, and it's local to look at (pity dad's overseas right now) http://london.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-2002-Pontiac-Grand-Prix-GT-Sedan-W0QQAdIdZ168110700

http://london.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-cars-2000-Chevrolet-Impala-LS-Sedan-145KS-W0QQAdIdZ167674019

(I'm putting in listings so i can find them later lol)


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-veh...s-Wagon-Certified-E-Tested-W0QQAdIdZ169403401


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## bscott (Mar 3, 2008)

Can you get your gear into it!!????? If you are hoping to transport your gear you may have to go the mini van route - I know, I know. Painful. What is your objective in getting a vehilce??

Brian


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

bscott said:


> Can you get your gear into it!!????? If you are hoping to transport your gear you may have to go the mini van route - I know, I know. Painful. What is your objective in getting a vehilce??
> 
> Brian


You can get a ton of gear in a Saturn... how do I know ...... hwopv


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

keeperofthegood said:


> kqoct and here again I am made to realise you are NOT in your 30's
> 
> 
> Personally? I will NEVER in my lifetime EVER own any FORD owned or made products again ever.
> ...


Well, pickup a copy of consumer reports and Ford generally gets a good rating (average to above).

I am on my 3rd ford in nearly 20 years (took my Explorer to 270K km before I sold it, my 02' Expedition is at 200K and kicking yet.

Everyone has lemons... but I really like Fords! 

Now dont get me started on Chevy's... both our shop vans are Chevs and I wont buy another. :smile:

AJC


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

PS lots of good minivans out there for sale. May not be the coolest vehicle, but I owned one when I was in college (an old Aerostar) and they have power, lots of space, and drive pretty well. Just remember practicality is more important than coolness.

At least until you can afford both! :smile:

AJC


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## Luke98 (Mar 4, 2007)

I recently bought a used 2003 Acura TL, and after quite a bit of searching, I picked it up, and I love it.


I'm not going to suggest a bunch of cars, but Honda and Toyota are quite famous for reliability, you mentioned a Grand Am, which I've heard many bad things about, including a major engine problem.
Grand prix's are better, and the one in the ad is from a dealer so don't be afraid to bargain. It's a used car and he wants to sell it, even if it means dropping a few hundred dollars.

Anyways, I'll give you some buying used advice, which may be of use. If you yourself aren't extremely car savvy, which is nothing to be ashamed of, bring a relative or friend who knows a good deal bout cars, just as you'd bring a friend who knows about guitars when you buy your first. When you test drive, check pretty much everything. Listen to the transmission shift, to make sure it has no trouble finding a gear, put it in neutral and rev it high and listen closely. If the car is in good shape you won't hear any odd noises.

CHECK FOR RUST. Check everywhere, specifically on the frame. Rust usually appears on the fenders, on the front of the hood near the grill and under doors first.

Good luck man.


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

Luke98 said:


> CHECK FOR RUST. Check everywhere, specifically on the frame. Rust usually appears on the fenders, on the front of the hood near the grill and under doors first.
> 
> Good luck man.


Also under the inside of the doors. Bend down and look at the lower inside lip of the door.

AJC


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

kqoct My inheritance vehicle, 2001 Mazda MPV that was paid for outright, melted at 170K. Every interior light burnt out. I had new tires every 5000kms. I had 14 warranty repairs, including two exploded alternators. The metal springs of the seating broke their welds and shot up into my ass on sunny day and that really hurt my disposition. I sold the mess for 1000 bucks just shy of three years after purchase. I was still getting notices last year of recalls.

There was not a part on that vehicle past the name outside that said Mazda that said Mazda inside. When the door handle fell off in my hand and I suffered a head trauma due to it, the back of that handle said FORD. Opened the computer it said FORD. The glove box door that first lost its latch (the latch said FORD) also said FORD when that door itself fell off. The vent control servo thingy that melted, that also said FORD. In fact, it was all FORD. I lost the dimmer switch, it melted, I pulled one from a FORD and it was identical. Wasn't the only FORD part salvaged from FORD vehicles that went into keeping my baby alive either. OH but not to FORD gawd ferbeed, it is NOT a FORD it is a MAZDA! HA!

In a long drawn out process I was left with no vehicle, no warranty's, no replacement, and not even an apology.

I know, others have good luck with FORD, but it went past that vehicle for me; to the managers, ceo's and other "suits" all of whom took their turns to wash their hands and not fess up to the fact they sold me a lemon. I was willing, up until 3 of the 6 cylinders physically melted out on the engine and was told I could pay the 8000 for a new block, to try to continue my relation with FORD and the companies they own, but then, I just plain had enough. Not to mention the computer unit, which was also fried, was 3 or 4 times MORE expensive to go into the MPV than the exact same module was for any other FORD product at the time. :| Yea, right...

As I said, when my brother got a Toyota, and the mechanic came to the house to install some gizmo that was supposed to have been part of the package but didn't arrive in time, I knew then what real service and dedication a maker had to their vehicles was, and for sure FORD never had it.

*:wave: Yup, next time I buy new OR used, if I don't have the 109K USD for a Tesla, it will be a Toyota :wave:*


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Kijiji is a good place to look but I still prefer this one for vehicles.

http://www.trader.ca/search/default...AT=1&len1=0&len2=0&price1=0&price2=0&refine=Y


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## the-patient (May 19, 2009)

Dude, this is a good time to get a car...

Stupid LTC.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I've been checking autotrader every now and again, lately there hasn't been what I'm looking for in my price range.

There's all of 2 minivans I would drive right now: winstar sport, and odyssey. Since we own a winstar, I'd rather the odyssey - even if it's boxy lol.

I saw some 90's Acura's within the price range, buuut insurance would be something else. It's like with BMW's - sure the car is affordable, but insurance is still going to be through the roof.

I'd like to reiterate that my dad will be test-driving and checking over whatever I get, as well as myself.

No-one has any friends they know who are selling an older car?


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Hey Budda , my niece has a Gran Prix for sale . If it's got the 3800 you want me to check it out ? 

I'm a retired mechanic BTW....got my shingle at Fanshawe back in the day when students didn't go amuck...... kkjuw

Update......called about it , it's a 1998 with 250K . Needs front rotors due to a brake pulse , one front axle bearing is starting to make noise , rocker panals have some rust . 

Wants $1000 as is and it does have the 3800 engine .


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Cheers nitehawk - is there any way to get an idea what the repairs would cost to get it to pass safety and e-test?

Being a retired mechanic, any guess as to how many years are left on it at 250K?

Thanks a ton!


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

The 3800 or 3.8l is an awesome engine. My foggy recollection of it's history is that it was first developed in the 50's by GM. It was then sold to a british company who developed it for a few years and GM bought it back. It is the same engine that was in the Turbo Regal by Buick (a wicked fast car). So, when you are getting the 3800, you are also getting a half century of development and engineering improvements from 2 continents.

Don't buy a chrysler mini van! My experience is bad with them starting with the transmission ($2400 repair), the AC pump seizing and ripping the harmonic balancer off the crankshaft ($3200 repair). Electronics bugs that could not be fixed, rust, general malaise, etc. But mini vans are great when you want to haul anything. Try taking a kid in a wheelchair camping! The GM mini vans (astro etc.) are pretty good, relying on proven RWD technology. Don't get all wheel drive. They can be a bit hard on gas though. Ford Winstars have a history of problems. Check out JD powers for ratings. Mini vans are a bit higher for insurance because of the number of people they can carry, unless you get a cargo style one without the extra seats. Then you can customise the interior like we did in the 70's and have a Shaggin Wagon.

I currently drive a Chevy HHR, it is awesome. Rides nice, cheap on gas, lots of room, and looks cool. Might be out of your price range though.

Check out some of the crossover wagons like Subaru, Volvo, etc. I don't know what they go for, so check their ratings too.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Budda....took a look at that GP of my nieces and although it has potental I would say NO . I can see to many issues coming up and costing to keep it going . If it had been rust proofed during it's life that would have helped but with the milage getting up there (engine not a concern but possable tranny....etc ) it's in it's not so golden years . 

I've got a few new car dealer friends that have some decent cars come in and I'll see what's kicking . Cars I always found were great deals were ones traded in by older couples who had really looked after it , had it rustproofed yearly and were older vehicals than what the new car dealers like to put on the lot so they wholesale them . Generally with the lower milage and maintanance these are bargain "creampuffs" that you can grab for a very reasonable $$ and there is basically nothing wrong with them....tons of driving left in them . 

On the vans Jim Daddy-O mentioned one that gets overlooked is the GM Astro vans with the 4.3 V6 . Those engines were the good ol 350 CI V8 minus 2 cyls ( GM used the exact same design and just cut off 2 cyls to make it a V6 ) . Saw a lot of those hit 400K no problems and not too bad on fuel but you have to watch some with the throttle body injection , some of those had problems passing the emission test . 

I'll do some poking around . The cars if I find any worth looking at would be in the Strathroy area just west of London .


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Strathroy works for me, since any test driving will be done with the parents.

I swung by Sam's auto sales on dundas and adelaide tonight since they were open, and had a couple of corolla's on the lot. asked about the corolla's (98 and 2000), they had a 98 Neon LE w/ no power options within my price range which I test drove, has 103K, and a 2000 ford focus sedan sport model (16V DOHC) with 97K, at the highest end of the price range if I chip in.

I'm going to tell my mom about the focus, as it was the more comfortable car. The salesman told me that he just got it in last week, so he hasn't done all the safety stuff to it yet. I was a little put off that we went for a test drive, and he just said "got your license on you?" and even though I took it out of my wallet, didn't ask to see it or write anything down. Maybe I'm just used to big-name stores with all-new vehicles.

I like the mileage and features of the focus, trunk looks big enough (i was told I can bring it to my cab to make sure it fits), 1 year powertrain warranty, he'll do a tune-up for the cost of parts only, $3800 plus taxes (original price is $4K). As I said, my parents don't want to go over $3500. I don't know if that's before or after taxes, if it's after.... uh oh... lol

Still keeping an eye out for 97 camry's though! Might end up in a 96... I'm not against a newer car though!

thanks for keeping an ear to the ground for me, nitehawk!


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Focus isn't a bad choice with that milage but it is 10 years old , the Neon.....I wouldn't touch it . 

I'll be in Strathroy tomorrow......don't get in a huge hurry as the prices you're talking sound on the high side to me , I think you can do a lot better . 
I'll let you know if I find anything worthwhile .


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## noman (Jul 24, 2006)

I owned a Focus wagon a few years ago and it was a very good car. Would have got another but Ford wasn't up to dealing so I switched to Toyota.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

nitehawk55 said:


> Focus isn't a bad choice with that milage but it is 10 years old , the Neon.....I wouldn't touch it .
> 
> I'll be in Strathroy tomorrow......don't get in a huge hurry as the prices you're talking sound on the high side to me , I think you can do a lot better .
> I'll let you know if I find anything worthwhile .


I can't hurry even though I want to - my parents are the ones paying, and my dad has to test drive and look over whatever he gets me. No rush here! (may get my bike sent down after all, the pedal's about to fall off my loaner)

I also don't think I can afford the insurance on something much newer then 2000 - no fancy new cars for me . I figure I'll end up in a 98 or something around there, with any luck. It's older, but it's what we can pay for.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

OK Budda , checked with my buddy aT THE Ford dealer and he has a 99 Taurus with about 145K for around $1800 , should not need much , they can presafety and give you a quote . I saw this one and it's getting some rust on the inside of the door bottoms , not bad but it's got a start at it . Oiling the body will help slow it .

OR....and I like the sound of this one , a 1995 Taurus with only 79,000 K on it that was owned by a Sr lady . Billy says it needs a muffler and little else and it will be about $1200 , maybe less if I catch him in a good mood  . Even he sounded impressed with it but it's not been traded in yet as the new car she's getting should be in next week so it's not at the lot yet . This one sounds like the older "creampuff" cars I mentioned but I'll pass judgement when I've seen it . 
Here is a link with some pics and info .... http://consumerguideauto.howstuffwo...us-5.htm?photo=1688337&perspective=all#toptab

Let me know what you think .


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Thanks very much!

The 95 taurus wouldn't be my first pick, however 79K and lady-driven means it's practically a new car! If you want to let me know what you think of it once it comes to the lot, I would greatly apperciate it!

The 99 taurus sounds good as well - would the dealer be able to get it safetied and e-tested before the sale (i'm aware the price would go up) ?

Thanks again!


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Sent you a PM


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

PM replied, thanks a lot!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Has anyone else seen anything, or know anyone looking to sell a vehicle?


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2009)

Look to kijiji - london.
you can even find what's close to you. Look at the left hand
column where it says 'distance' and enter your postal code.
Happy hunting!


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