# PSA: Canada Post Strike Looming July 2



## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

There is a possibility that Canada Post will be on strike as of July 2. I believe it is the people that sort the mail that are striking but i could be wrong. Therefore if you are buying or selling there is a chance you won't be able to use the Service for a certain period of time. And if you have a shipment on its way then hopefully it gets here this week!


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Actually from what I understand it's likely going to be a lockout by management and not a strike by the union. Subtle distinction as the end result is the same, just a difference in who is to blame.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

We just posted an update on how it will affect our customers:
Canada Post Strike?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I just shipped the last item I'm going to ship through Canada Post for now. I sent it yesterday and it went express 1 bus day. Anything I ship from here on I guess will be UPS.


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## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

Also sucks for small town folk like myself with limited shipping options. We do have a puralator vendor but that also costs more depending on the item


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I am expecting something via USPS to CP, after July 2nd.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> I am expecting something via USPS to CP, after July 2nd.


Yeah I purchased from a US dealer last week and he normally sends USPS\CP but we decided to go with UPS. So now I sit here worried about the fees. But at least it should get here.


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## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

guitarman2 said:


> Yeah I purchased from a US dealer last week and he normally sends USPS\CP but we decided to go with UPS. So now I sit here worried about the fees. But at least it should get here.


Ahhh the dreaded brokerage fees!


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

tomsy49 said:


> Ahhh the dreaded brokerage fees!


Especially UPS brokerage. That will be your left leg, your right arm and your left arm below the elbow.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

The touch screen for my granddaughters tablet took a week to get from Calgary to here and they lost tracking when it hit Calgary from Richmond B.C.. There's nothing important coming in the mail now until the end of July.


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

Same here. Except bills, I don't expect mail and will refrain from ordering. 

Thanks OP for the heads up


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## limelight65 (Jun 2, 2014)

tomsy49 said:


> There is a possibility that Canada Post will be on strike as of July 2. I believe it is the people that sort the mail that are striking but i could be wrong. Therefore if you are buying or selling there is a chance you won't be able to use the Service for a certain period of time. And if you have a shipment on its way then hopefully it gets here this week!


my buddy is a carrier . they will all be out. after giving a massive bonus to the CEO they are asking for everyone to take 20% rollbacks. I'm not a union guy but even that sounds bogus to me .


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

Cut backs seem to be the norm for unskilled labour.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I have a few guitars to go out that I've been waiting to ship until I finish this run of steady nights, so that sucks.

I'll have to look into some couriers.
Someone sent me a guitar from down south by Purolator and it was something like $50.
That's a good bit cheaper than CP, glad that I caught it being delivered as I have no clue where the outlet is in town.
Fedex is clear across town from me.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I've noticed a slow down in service in the last year. I used to order online from sellers in the GTA and have it here (Edmonton area) in 2 days. 3 days at the most. Now it's at least a week, sometimes a week and a half.
Pretty sure I only get delivery 3 days one week, 2 days the next week too.

If you feel you live in a fairly secure area, the couriers will let you do a "pre-authorization" type thing that lets their people leave a package at your door when there is no one home. There's a sticker that goes on your door with an authorization number on it. No big deal.


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## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

I looked into Purolator for shipping and they seem to be quite high. Around $100 to $120


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

I went to Canada Post yesterday to pick up a set of mail box keys and fill out a change of address form so our mail will be redirected to our new place. My wife and I just sold our house and are moving into a apartment until our new house is built. So I go there and they ask me for ID. To be expected but I have nothing with our new address on it. I show her my phone showing my number that clearly shows my phone number on her paperwork, the email I received from them and 3 pieces of photo ID proving I am who I say I am. She says I need something with my new address. I tell her in a very polite way that I would love to but its all in the freaking mail box I don't have the keys to and to go get her supervisor. Her supervisor comes out, apologises and gives me the keys. I looked over at her and said I can't wait to see her fat ass walking the picket line, it might do her some good and then left. If they do go on strike I do plan on stopping by. I've been to this Post Office and there is seldom a line up of people, yesterday there was 10 and the worker was deliberately being very slow in her job. Someone even commented to her why are you taking it out on us?


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Sounds like she was just being a bitch. Luckily most of the CP people I encounter are great to deal with.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

My Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem t-shirt arrived today - it's all good. ;-)


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

tomsy49 said:


> Also sucks for small town folk like myself with limited shipping options. We do have a puralator vendor but that also costs more depending on the item


Purolator is Canada post.


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## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

Chitmo said:


> Purolator is Canada post.


I don't think that is true. I just looked on the Purolator site and they had a notice that due to Canada Posts strike, they're increase in volumes would not allow them to maintain their time guarantees


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

tomsy49 said:


> I don't think that is true. I just looked on the Purolator site and they had a notice that due to Canada Posts strike, they're increase in volumes would not allow them to maintain their time guarantees


They may be structured separately, but they are most definitely owned by Canada post.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

The last guitar I sold within Canada was shipped by Fedex, which was a first for me. I couldn't have been happier with the cost or delivery time, which was phenomenal.

As for CP, there's nothing I like better than paying for a service I'm not getting while they're on strike. I've been pretty happy with their service over the years though.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

davetcan said:


> As for CP, there's nothing I like better than paying for a service I'm not getting while they're on strike. I've been pretty happy with their service over the years though.


I have shipped things express that took the "regular mail" time. It's not much of an upcharge on smaller items (pickups ususally) but c'mon.

I want to list a guitar but with CP on strike, I'd really want a SWO sale to deliver :/


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Budda said:


> I have shipped things express that took the "regular mail" time. It's not much of an upcharge on smaller items (pickups ususally) but c'mon.
> 
> I want to list a guitar but with CP on strike, I'd really want a SWO sale to deliver :/


Yeah, they're delivery times have been slipping the past couple of years, used to be exactly as advertised, not any more though.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Lincoln said:


> I've noticed a slow down in service in the last year. I used to order online from sellers in the GTA and have it here (Edmonton area) in 2 days. 3 days at the most. Now it's at least a week, sometimes a week and a half.
> Pretty sure I only get delivery 3 days one week, 2 days the next week too.
> 
> If you feel you live in a fairly secure area, the couriers will let you do a "pre-authorization" type thing that lets their people leave a package at your door when there is no one home. There's a sticker that goes on your door with an authorization number on it. No big deal.


There's a sticker? Never seen one. At least not for Canada Post. Depending on the size parcels either get put in the mail box or under the table on the front porch. All in clear view of the street. Letters and things from edmonton and Calgary take 2 to 3 times as long as the same things from Saskatoon and Vancouver.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

We need to get our cheques out to our people. We are looking into direct deposit but it was not cheap the last time we looksd. We can do e-transfers but there is a very small limit on the maximum per transfer and the amount per week. 

If anyone knows a cheaper way, I would appreciate the info.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Fortunately my parcel from the US arrived today.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I wonder if those who decide to strike understand that whenever they do, more and more people and businesses look for alternatives.

It's to the point now that I don't depend on them at all.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> We need to get our cheques out to our people. We are looking into direct deposit but it was not cheap the last time we looksd. We can do e-transfers but there is a very small limit on the maximum per transfer and the amount per week.
> 
> If anyone knows a cheaper way, I would appreciate the info.


Cheques out to who? Are they employees?

I don't think I've received a paper cheque from my employer since the 90s and even then it wasn't necessary.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Cheques out to who? Are they employees?
> 
> I don't think I've received a paper cheque from my employer since the 90s and even then it wasn't necessary.


Every second Friday I get a pay cheque. I'd have to get a bank account if we went to direct deposit at work. I can think of only one company I've worked for that's done direct deposit but at least the pay cheques I've gotten have always been placed in my hands.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Robert1950 said:


> Fortunately my parcel from the US arrived today.


I'm waiting on one that left Ottawa on June 28th. Thinking it may be a while before I see it.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Every second Friday I get a pay cheque. I'd have to get a bank account if we went to direct deposit at work. I can think of only one company I've worked for that's done direct deposit but at least the pay cheques I've gotten have always been placed in my hands.



Hunh!!!!

Say what?

You'd have to get a bank account?

LOL, welcome to the .....18th century?

I though I was old school.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Every second Friday I get a pay cheque. I'd have to get a bank account if we went to direct deposit at work. I can think of only one company I've worked for that's done direct deposit but at least the pay cheques I've gotten have always been placed in my hands.


I didn't think banks would cash cheques without you having an account any more, not for years and years.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Some will if it's the cheque issuer's bank. Besides, if it's a business cheque, there's always cheque cashing places.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Aside from self-employment, I can't say I've ever had a job where I wasn't paid by cheque.


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## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> Every second Friday I get a pay cheque. I'd have to get a bank account if we went to direct deposit at work. I can think of only one company I've worked for that's done direct deposit but at least the pay cheques I've gotten have always been placed in my hands.


You must have a good safe in your house haha


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Union didn't file 72 hours notice. Working on alternate proposal. Earliest is now July 4th.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Hunh!!!!
> 
> Say what?
> 
> ...


Why do I need a bank acct.? If I need money I ask the wife. I get my cheque, sign it and give it to her. If needs be I can access the one bank acct of hers but it's in her name, not mine and I use one of her debit cards. I deal with cash. I haven't used 'my' credit card.....supplied by the bank that holds the mortgage....since around christmas. It's in the wife's name, I have permission to use it. 
Very little paper trail.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

tomsy49 said:


> You must have a good safe in your house haha


Winchester 12 ga. pump, full mag. , no safe.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Milkman said:


> Cheques out to who? Are they employees?
> 
> I don't think I've received a paper cheque from my employer since the 90s and even then it wasn't necessary.


No, we don't have employees but have franchisees and other business associates across the country.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Why do I need a bank acct.? If I need money I ask the wife. I get my cheque, sign it and give it to her. If needs be I can access the one bank acct of hers but it's in her name, not mine and I use one of her debit cards. I deal with cash. I haven't used 'my' credit card.....supplied by the bank that holds the mortgage....since around christmas. It's in the wife's name, I have permission to use it.
> Very little paper trail.


Yeah and hopefully you'll pass on before the wife. I'm not criticizing though as I'm in the same boat. I don't deal much with all that financial stuff and the only credit card I have is one on my wife's account. The only account I have is a joint with my wife and she takes care of everything. If my wife were suddenly not here I'd have a hell of a time having to manage all this stuff.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Budda said:


> I have shipped things express that took the "regular mail" time. It's not much of an upcharge on smaller items (pickups ususally) but c'mon.
> 
> I want to list a guitar but with CP on strike, I'd really want a SWO sale to deliver :/


Xpress posted items that arrive after the due date are refundable, as the shipping arrival date is guaranteed.

I had a Jazzmaster in a Mono case shipped from southern Ontario recently for $50 through Purolator, about a third less than CP.
I have a P Bass enroute from Calgary through Greyhound for $60, less than half of what it was for the Hamer Sunburst from the same seller.
The P Bass has to be heavier and is definitely bukier than the SB. Less insurance on the P Bass, but a vast difference.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

This has been mentioned already, this is NOT a strike, it's a lockout by management.

There is a difference.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> Yeah and hopefully you'll pass on before the wife. I'm not criticizing though as I'm in the same boat. I don't deal much with all that financial stuff and the only credit card I have is one on my wife's account. The only account I have is a joint with my wife and she takes care of everything. If my wife were suddenly not here I'd have a hell of a time having to manage all this stuff.


All the important info.....acct #s, passwords etc. are written down. The joint acct is strictly for the mortgage. I can do all the stuff, I just don't. Like I said, very little paper trail. About the only thing in my name is my cell phone. What some might find strange is that I have POA over her if needs be....she doesn't over me.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

sulphur said:


> This has been mentioned already, this is NOT a strike, it's a lockout by management.
> 
> There is a difference.


I didn't know either side had given 72 hr. notice yet. Possible strike, lockout at Canada Post this weekend
As to strike/lock-out, it depends on who pushes the button first I guess.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

sulphur said:


> This has been mentioned already, this is NOT a strike, it's a lockout by management.
> 
> There is a difference.


Not to me. I Could care less. All I know is, if we didn't have these dam whining letter carriers my recycling bin would be almost empty every week. I don't think their union has as much power as it once did.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Last night on CBC radio, they reported that the union had no plans at that time to strike.
So, any work stoppage would be due to CP taking the initialive and lock the workers out.

Where I worked in Manitoba, we had two votes, one on the contract and another on whether or not to strike.
I don't know how CP has it set up, but it is possible to turn down the contract and continue to work under the existing one until they settle.
I guess that is not an option for the Corporation.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

sulphur said:


> Xpress posted items that arrive after the due date are refundable, as the shipping arrival date is guaranteed.


Unfortunately not in the case of a strike or lockout. 



sulphur said:


> This has been mentioned already, this is NOT a strike, it's a lockout by management.


Actually neither is set yet. Both are still a possibility. If they strike, there won't be a lockout because they'll already be on strike. If they don't strike, there might be a lockout by management.

Either way, the result is the same for all of us. No service anywhere until work resumes. Sucks!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

sulphur said:


> Last night on CBC radio, they reported that the union had no plans at that time to strike.
> So, any work stoppage would be due to CP taking the initialive and lock the workers out.
> 
> Where I worked in Manitoba, we had two votes, one on the contract and another on whether or not to strike.
> ...


Of course the union would say that they had no plans for a strike..."at the time"....same as management would say that they have no plans for a lock out..."at the time"... Just wait and see.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

CBC just reported that it will be at least Wednesday before further action is taken by either side. Talks aren't going well.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

AFL calls on Prime Minister to fire Canada Post CEO over manufactured crisis


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

I've noticed my mailman seems to be in a snit lately. If we have mail he will go up the four steps to put it in our mailbox but if we only have flyers/ads he refuses to and just dumps them on my front porch.

But whether they strike or are locked out, they are merely another example of civil servants who just don't get it.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

An official statement from Canada Post:

Canada Post extremely disappointed with CUPW’s response to its offers

"*OTTAWA –* Canada Post is extremely disappointed with the response from the Canadian Union of Postal Workers (CUPW) at the bargaining tables. Late Friday evening, CUPW tabled offers that would add at least $1 Billion in new costs over the term of a new collective agreement while rejecting the Corporation’s approach to address the long-term issues with the employee pension plan.

On Saturday, June 25, 2016, Canada Post tabled offers designed to help bring a quick resolution to the negotiations and end the uncertainty that is negatively impacting our customers and our employees. They included modest and manageable wage increases for all employees and no changes to the pension for all employees in the plan. To do that, the Corporation made it clear it required a new pension approach for new hires. Two other unions at Canada Post have already agreed to this approach to help address the long term challenges of the pension plan, which is facing a $6.2 Billion solvency deficit.

In response, CUPW returned to the table six days later with counter offers which completely ignore the pension issue, as well as the other significant challenges faced by the postal service. In their offer, the union rejected any changes to the pension, more than tripled the Corporation’s proposed wage increases and demanded the immediate reinstatement of several changes agreed to in the last round of negotiations in 2012.

While the parcel business has been improving in the last few years, the corporation continues to face the impact of a decade of decline in Lettermail which continues today. Last year alone, the Corporation delivered 1.6 Billion fewer pieces of mail than it did in 2006. We need to work together to address these challenges and grow the parcel business, not saddle our customers with more than a $1 Billion in new costs. Canada Post continues to remain at the table to negotiate an agreement that is reasonable and affordable.

*For more information:*
Media Relations
613-734-8888
[email protected]"

In other words, everything is still up in the air.


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

Canada post has a history of being bad at negotiations, which led to massive strikes in the past. 
When land mail was still a thing, and Canada post was actually doing profit, they would refuse to negotiate contract when they ended, and ended up doing do while a strike was ongoing and the contract was five years done, with backpaymemts to employees upon resolution. 

That might be why the union is used to ask aggressively. 

But in a time of electronic mail, postal service company no longer has any margin to actually give more than they offer, so the union cannot win. 

It's a lose-lose, and the clients a.k.a. Canadian taxpayers and mailreceivers are caught in the middle. 
So it's a lose-lose-lose. 

Still, besides random bills, my mailbox is more of a parcel recipient ; strike or lockout only means I'll use a competitor. There's not much to win in that situation.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Just ordered some goodies from Next Gen. If he can get 'em out great, if not, no worries. Personally I would rather wait than give the whiners with the sweet government gig the feeling that they're winning. Some people will complain no matter how good they have it...cough...teachers...


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Jamdog said:


> When land mail was still a thing, and Canada post was actually doing profit,


Canada Post is profitable (except for one year in the last 20) and has seen huge increases in parcel business thanks to all the online shopping people do.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2016)

Someone I know who works at the sorting station sent me this.
CPC: “Modest” Wage Offer Is An “Insult”

CPC's offer;










Unions counter offer;

_*Urban: *_

_A new wage grid with lowest paid employees to receive 85% of highest wage rate._

_All employees to receive wage increases of $0.78 (3%), $0.53 (2%), $0.55 (2%) and $0.56 (2%). The percentages are based on the maximum Postal Clerk/Letter Carrier wage rate._
_Groups 3 and 4 workers to receive adjustment of $1.00 per hour on January 1, 2016 and $1.00 per hour on January 1, 2018._
_Temporary employees pay in lieu of benefits to rise to 6% from 4%._
_*RSMC: *_

_Elimination of three wage zones. One national pay rate._
_RSMCs to receive the same wages as letter carriers with increases of 3%, 2%, 2% and 2%._
_RSMCs to be paid an hourly rate and paid for all hours worked at the appropriate rate._
_Guaranteed regular hours which will be pensionable._
_OCREs to receive the same wages and benefits of urban temporary employees._


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Just as a counterpoint, I work in high-tech. Depending on the markets, it has been common to get no pay increases over a few years, and an actual pension plan is a unicorn.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

To say they were miles apart would be an understatement. I suspect the union is trying to play on the new liberal government approach to negotiations.

2 - 3% per year was a pipe dream in the manufacturing industry when I left it. We also had wage caps, once you hit it no more raises, ever, unless you got lucky and the cap was raised. Pension plan and benefits for new employees, if they existed, were significantly reduced for new hires.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2016)

ZeroGravity said:


> .. it has been common to get no pay increases over a few years, and an actual pension plan is a unicorn.


This gets back to the difference between private/public employment.
The public sector entitlement always expects that their demands be met.
Just raise the taxes to cover it.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

OK, but Government is the example that shows private companies how to properly treat employees. It's really silly to say we don't have it that good why should they. You deserve better too. And because you're not getting it either is exactly why you should hope that they do vs calling it entitlement and falling into that trap of a narrative (you don't deserve shit either). Employers are in the business of making the most money off your labour they can. Some are better, but as a general rule. When the gov lowers the bar we all lose.

The fact is that inflation is > 1% yearly (even the official numbers, nevermind that many economists believe it is under-reported). If you don't give at least that much in yearly adjustments, real wages are actually going down.

Historic inflation Canada – historic CPI inflation Canada

Historical Data

Meanwhile, workforce productivity is rising. Which means profits are up (or at least should be, unless something else is fucking it up). Raising wages fairly does not mean taxes have to rise (again, that's part of the narrative bosses everywhere want you to believe).

I haven't been paying enough attention to the CPC situation to know what's what here, just saying generally.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

gtrguy said:


> Canada Post is profitable (except for one year in the last 20) and has seen huge increases in parcel business thanks to all the online shopping people do.


The year they weren't profitable was after a labor dispute and the management decided to splurge on mechanizing the industry.
That was a kick in the face of the employees as they were looking at losing jobs after the mechanization.

Of course, like many managers, they didn't take any feedback from the actual people doing the job and screwed the pooch on the machinery.
Meaning that they bought a pile of white elephants that didn't work and didn't get rid of any employees because of it.
Smooth move CP.

Is the head of CP still a Harper appointee? Hmmmmm.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

72 hour notice has been given.

"Canada Post has issued a 72-hour notice to the Canadian Union of Postal Workers (CUPW-Urban and CUPW-RSMC), which represent our delivery agents and plant employees.

The issuing of the notice does not necessarily mean that Canada Post will not be operating on Friday. It allows the Corporation to take measures that are necessary to respond to the changing business reality. It is doing so by changing the terms and conditions of employment for all employees represented by the union starting Friday, July 8, 2016.

There can be no legal work disruption before 12:01 a.m. on Friday, July 8, 2016."

Here we go!


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

72 hours should hopefully be enough time for my delivery. Thanks for getting it out promptly JBS.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Just to make sure everything is clear, Canada Post is LOCKING OUT the employees, right?


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

Robert1950 said:


> Just to make sure everything is clear, Canada Post is LOCKING OUT the employees, right?


The mailman works outside, what will it change for him to be locked out?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> 72 hours should hopefully be enough time for my delivery. Thanks for getting it out promptly JBS.


Hopefully the union workers don't gum up the works knowing they're going to be locked out.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Robert1950 said:


> Just to make sure everything is clear, Canada Post is LOCKING OUT the employees, right?


As far as I understand it, if the union workers don't agree to the currently tabled deal by Friday, then yes.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

We just set up direct deposit for all of our people plus 40 sub-contractors. There goes another 100 envelopes that CP will lose out on every month.


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

Médias here told of already visible lower volume of letters and parcels, likely cause by publication of potential upcoming strike/lockout. 

They report some offices are literally not having any volume this week. 

I'd think whatever is in the mail should be processed quick.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I've had nothing delivered since last Wednesday, and I know there is stuff that should have been.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Here's the part I don't get. Their union is making a stink about the changeover from defined benefits to defined contributions for new and future employees. Yes, that sucks...big time. But the _whole frigging world_ is moving that way because all those defined benefit plans were established when the entire world and workforce was in an entirely differently economic context. My cohort is one ofthe last that will ever have defined benefits, and I consider myself absolutely blessed and 6/49 lucky because of it (I promise to be benevolent with my "winnings"). Just exactly how postal workers expect Canada Post to be able to maintain what so many employers are running away from is beyond me. If they want to nudge the chains over a bit so that defined contributions kicks in a few more years further off in the future, or if they have some creative ideas about how to blend the one gradually into the other, great. But insisting that because current workers have it, therefore future workers must necessarily have it, is folly IMHO.

The other thing is that virtually every expert I've heard quoted on the matter has expressed concern that customers would not come back, in the event of a strike. And if your customer base and business drops, it's fer damn sure there will be cuts, and especially cuts to new hires. Pension funds being the world's biggest ongoing Ponzi scheme, if you run out of new "investors" you soon find yourself unable to pay off dividends to your established investors...._especially_ if those established investors are on a defined benefits plan. So even IF Canada Post were to cave in and accede to the Union's demands, it's not immediately clear that they could afford to honour those commitments for very long before postal workers find themselves in the same position as former Nortel workers; in court to try and get a portion of their pension and health coverage. And clearly the solution is NOT to be found in raising postage rates, because thatwill only decrease business further. You would think their union leadership was smarter than that.

This is NOT a diss against postal workers. They work as hard as anyone else and put in an honest day's work. It's a matter of realism and practicality. Sometimes, "winning"is not in your best interests.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Ok, lets get this straight, once and for all, it's NOT a strike, ffs!
Lockout and strike are not interchangeable terms, there IS a big difference, use the proper terminology.

I keep hearing talk of the loss of letters being delivered, but never hear of the increase of parcels that are being moved.
A much more lucrative side of the business, imo.

I can't remember the last letter that I've sent, but in the past five or six years, I've sent and recieve hundreds of parcels.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

The Canada Post segment reported a profit before tax of $63 million in 2015.

Solid efforts by our employees to improve service and convenience for online shoppers and retailers led to record Parcels growth. This helped establish Canada Post as the largest parcel company in the country and contributed to a profit before tax of $63 million for the Canada Post segment in 2015. Since 2011, Parcels revenue has grown by $429 million.

Strategic initiatives we adopted in response to Canadians’ changing postal needs were also a major factor in the results. They contributed approximately $390 million to our earnings in 2015. A strategic pricing adjustment in 2014, more efficient delivery and improved productivity across the network all contributed.

The profit is modest compared to the Corporation’s revenue and the significant challenges we face as a company. These include the continuing decline in mail volumes, which fell by nearly a quarter billion pieces in 2015.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

sulphur said:


> Ok, lets get this straight, once and for all, it's NOT a strike, ffs!
> Lockout and strike are not interchangeable terms, there IS a big difference, use the proper terminology.
> 
> I keep hearing talk of the loss of letters being delivered, but never hear of the increase of parcels that are being moved.
> ...


You're right, of course. My bad. I can't see Canada Post cutting off its nose to spite its face, though, and locking out workers in a manner that ultimately decreases its business. The union is in a legal strike position, and is demanding something that is largely unsustainable.

Having said that, somebody needs to explain what the employer potentially gains by locking out, instead of provoking a strike. I'm assuming that somewhere in this giant game of chicken there is some sort of perceived advantage, either economic or strategic.

Some years before she became a judge, my late cousin was a lawyer for Canada Post, and had worked on several ugly rounds of collective bargaining. She was soured on the whole thing, and told me that the union ended up settling for exactly what the employer was offering in the first place. In many such standoffs, the employer essentially offloads salary to the union's strike pay fund for as many weeks as it takes to offset the dollar/percentage difference between what is offered and what is being demanded. If 7 weeks of not paying salaries offsets the cost to the employer of giving 2.35% more over the duration of the contracts, compared to the 1.7% they were offering, then any strike will last 7 weeks. Once the gap in amortized employee costs is closed, the employer gives in and the union declares victory. On paper, it looks like the union triumphed, but in reality the employer is shelling out only as much as they were offering to shell out for the duration of the contract at the outset - it's just concentrated into a shorter period. Small wonder she grew cynical about it.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

"If 7 weeks of not paying salaries offsets the cost to the employer of giving 2.35% more over the duration of the contracts, compared to the 1.7% they were offering, then any strike will last 7 weeks."

That would be a pretty narrow minded group of managers who think the 2.35% only lasts as long as the length of the contract 

The issues, regardless of who wants what, haven't changed. Door to door delivery is in decline, much like printed newspapers. CP has to reinvent itself to continue to make profit, which it is trying to do apparently. As for the matter of "profit", hmmm, what happens to the profits earned by a public service? Do they get kicked back to the taxpayer?

It's all moot anyway, the union has played it's ace in the hole by blaming Harper for this mess. Trudeau won't be able to miss an opportunity to look like a knight in shining armour once again so I'm sure the union will come out of this just fine.

My niece and her husband are both postal workers btw, so I have a small amount of vested interest in the outcome


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

They've been working since January without a contract and it seems that the union would be willing to keep working while negotiations went on.

There have been proposals of different routes to take with the business, cash outlets was one.
Building upon the increased parcel side of the business would only make sense to me, with the world resorting to more and more e-commerce.


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

Since January is nothing. In previous strikes they settled retroaction of whole contract durations because there were no agreements for YEARS...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

davetcan said:


> "If 7 weeks of not paying salaries offsets the cost to the employer of giving 2.35% more over the duration of the contracts, compared to the 1.7% they were offering, then any strike will last 7 weeks."
> 
> That would be a pretty narrow minded group of managers who think the 2.35% only lasts as long as the length of the contract
> 
> The issues, regardless of who wants what, haven't changed. Door to door delivery is in decline, much like printed newspapers. CP has to reinvent itself to continue to make profit, which it is trying to do apparently. As for the matter of "profit", hmmm, what happens to the profits earned by a public service? Do they get kicked back to the taxpayer?


Well, the negotiators think in terms of the duration of that collective agreement. And where there is little reason to presume that the size of the workforce will remain at its current level when the next round of collective bargaining rolls around, you can't really budget beyond the current collective agreement anyway. So yah, its short-sighted, but that would seem to be the nature of collective bargaining. It may well be different in the private sector, but when an organization is publicly funded, there could always be another government with a different agenda or different budgetary constraints. For instance, we've seen different sorts of budgets allocated to the CBC over time.

As for what happens to the revenue generated by Crown Corporations, I have never really understood how that works. I'm assuming that profits don't just simply go into general revenues, but neither does all profit magically turn into shareholder dividends and raises for everybody. I would assume that many simply operate on a cost-recovery basis. That is, they charge clients for services, but the client fees simply offset the costs of operating and providing those services. And where cost-recovery is not simply a zero-sum non-profit game, the corporation must surely have some latitude to use profts from the current fiscal year to cope with unexpected costs next year or invest in capital projects. But again, this is all speculation on my part. Here's a nice encyclopedia entry on crown corporations, but it doesn't say anything about what happens to revenues. Crown Corporation I imagine one would have to dig into the Financial Administration Act to learn the details. This article indicates that some crown corporations pay dividends to the government as sole shareholder. What are Crown corporations and why do they exist? But I still have no idea what happens to any profits Canada Post earns.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I've resisted getting e-bills, always preferring to opt for the snail-mail hard bill. I'm old school, I just like the system I have now. A few bills were kind of forced to go electronic - I coped but still prefer a paper bill.

I guess this will be the end of that. I will probably have to go through the hassle of setting all my bills up via e-mail. But once I do, and once I get used to it, I won't ever go back.

Very good marketing from CPC and the Union. It takes two to tango, if you think you can run a corporation in 2106 like in 1966, well..............ask the blacksmiths how that went for them 120 years ago. Or Rogers and Blockbuster a decade ago. I don't envy the letter carriers and inside workers, but progress is a bitch. As they say, you're either a part of the steamroller or you're a part of the road. Looks like they chose to be asphalt. Sad.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> I've resisted getting e-bills, always preferring to opt for the snail-mail hard bill. I'm old school, I just like the system I have now. A few bills were kind of forced to go electronic - I coped but still prefer a paper bill.
> 
> I guess this will be the end of that. I will probably have to go through the hassle of setting all my bills up via e-mail. But once I do, and once I get used to it, I won't ever go back.


I'm almost entirely e-bills now, this will force me to get off my butt and move the rest of them to it. I've had a superbox for almost 30 years now, we were one of the first to get them I think. I personally love it and it's a shame CP weren't allowed to increase their use. I'd also like to see them focus on parcel delivery, I have no love for Fedex and UPS's brokerage fees.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

I just had UPS deliver 3 parcels to my place in the country in the last few days. Bought online from Best Buy and not expensive items. Don't know how they can pay UPS to deliver these with free shipping but I'm glad they do. UPS is great if your parcel doesn't have to cross the border. I've been using Epost for many years now. They save the bills on their site for 7 years. This year, I received notice that the info from a few of my bills was going to be deleted since it's been 7 years and I should copy them if I need to keep them.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2016)




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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Now THAT makes sense to me...


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

This is already bad. And if they do have a lockout, it is only going to get worse.

They have no doubt lost millions of dollars of business in the past 2 weeks alone. It's a shame because they really are (were) the best domestic parcel shipping solution in Canada. With the looming strike/lockout, we evaluated a number of other solutions but none could come anywhere close to CP's domestic rates, quality of service, ease of use, or convenience. Not to mention, they all wanted us to sign a full year contract to switch over. A contract which often involved being penalized if we didn't live up to our parcel commitment.

The CP drivers we interact with daily have all been saying that they went from picking up hundreds of packages a day down to maybe a few dozen. If that is representative of the whole and it keeps up because of these other courier contracts taking over, they are going to be in serious trouble. After all, prior to this whole thing they were responsible for shipping 2/3rds of all e-commerce parcels in Canada. If all the other businesses who have abandoned Canada Post in the past 2 weeks have permanently switched couriers (at least for a one year contract), Canada Post can expect a pretty MASSIVE net loss for the duration of those contracts.

I have to admit that as a business it is tough to tell what the best course of action is here. Most customers want to pay as little as possible for shipping. In the long term, that means keeping our current contract with Canada Post. However, any temporary solution we implement during the lockout will be costly to both us and our customers. If we make a permanent switch to another primary courier, it provides a reasonable solution during the lockout. However, the long term effect is more expensive shipping rates for customers for at least a year. Not to mention customers in remote/rural areas end up paying nearly twice as much because no other courier has the infrastructure that Canada Post does.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Guitar101 said:


> UPS is great if your parcel doesn't have to cross the border.


I just ordered a guitar from the US and it was sent to UPS and I had no issue with it. The retailer shipped it with a declared value of $500 (guitar cost $3,900) and my brokerage feels were $65. The declared valued worried me but I called my credit card company and any purchase on my credit card is insured against loss, theft or damage for 90 days.
The nice thing about UPS is its much quicker than USPS\CP


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

$65 is ridiculous for brokerage fees.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> $65 is ridiculous for brokerage fees.


Yeah just think how bad it would have been at actual declared value. Anyway it was worth it to me as I didn't want to take a chance that the guitar would get caught in the strike. UPS got it to me much faster than Canada Post would have and the guitar was still over $1,200 cheaper than buying from a Canada retailer.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

guitarman2 said:


> UPS got it to me much faster than Canada Post would have and the guitar was still over $1,200 cheaper than buying from a Canada retailer.


Out of curiosity, what was the best price you found from a Canadian retailer?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

jbealsmusic said:


> Out of curiosity, what was the best price you found from a Canadian retailer?


12th Fret $4,699. When you add the taxes you're at about $5,300. Right before I placed the US order I did call the 12th Fret and ask if there was any negotiating room and they said no, that was lower than any one else. I did check about 20 other stores and the prices were all about the same, some a little higher.
There was another store that quoted me $4,199 ($4,500 after taxes) which was considerably lower than any other store. I asked for some feedback on this particular store and someone answered that they had an issue with the store where they had ordered something from them at a quoted price but when they went to pick it up the quoted price was significantly higher. That was the only feedback I had on the store and all I had to go on so my confidence that they'd honor my quoted price was low.
What I paid for the guitar all in taxes, brokerage, etc was $3,946. Even if that lowest Canadian quote had honored their quote I'm still ahead over $500.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

And if the the value had been honestly declared and you paid the actual taxes that you should have?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

gtrguy said:


> And if the the value had been honestly declared and you paid the actual taxes that you should have?


With my Native status I don't pay PST portion anyway. On online orders it is a pain in the ass to recover that as the courier at the door has no way to rectify that. So it pretty much balances out anyway.
So if I had bought local in Canada and was able to present my tax card the savings is really only about a thousand.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Latest update: Canada Post agrees to a 30-day "cooling off period".
"Canada Post has informed the Canadian Union of Postal Workers (CUPW) that what our employees and our customers need is long-term certainty in the postal system."

Too bad they've already lost thousands of contract customers due to the uncertainty over the past few weeks. Not sure whether extending the uncertainty for another 30-days is going to do them any favours or just make matters worse.

What a headache for businesses and customers who order products to be shipped. Here's hoping they come to an agreement soon.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I haven't had one bit of mail in over a week. Not sure if it's down to a work to rule mentality or an unwillingness to mail anything fear by their customers.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

davetcan said:


> I haven't had one bit of mail in over a week. Not sure if it's down to a work to rule mentality or an unwillingness to mail anything fear by their customers.


The latter for sure!


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## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

Get your items out ASAP!


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

tomsy49 said:


> Get your items out ASAP!


The good news is that with this new 30 day cooling off period, there's no more pressure for about 3 weeks. Just business as usual.

If they haven't come to an agreement by day 20-ish, it's back to the current confusion for businesses and customers.


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## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

Ya that is great news!


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I thought today they wouldn't be working but I saw a mail truck rolling around. 
Still, FedEx who's been very active in my neighbourhood recently brought a package to my door at 7:30am today that usually arrives by Canada Post.


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## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

......,aaaaaaaaaand lockout back on. I don't understand how they think they should get what they want considering ANYONE can do the job of a mail carrier or sorter. I'm pretty sure post office workers in rural locations make a good living as in the 2 towns I have lived in have worked there for over a decade or longer. So it can't be that bad.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

I got a letter yesterday....from Service Canada. They got my application for the Guaranteed Income Supplement....on the 9th of Feb. 2015. They need my marraige certificate.....to be sent by mail. The letter was mailed in Edmonton on the 30th of June this year. Any delays may result in a potential lose of benefits.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

tomsy49 said:


> ......,aaaaaaaaaand lockout back on.


Yup. Confirmed earlier this evening. Lockout begins Monday 12:01am. This is going to suck for a lot of people!

Case in point:


Electraglide said:


> I got a letter yesterday....from Service Canada. They got my application for the Guaranteed Income Supplement....on the 9th of Feb. 2015. They need my marraige certificate.....to be sent by mail. The letter was mailed in Edmonton on the 30th of June this year. Any delays may result in a potential lose of benefits.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm not sure why the workers are getting the blame for getting locked out.
They were also willing to still work under the existing contract.

I guess that some people need someone to blame, regardless.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

sulphur said:


> I'm not sure why the workers are getting the blame for getting locked out.
> They were also willing to still work under the existing contract.
> 
> I guess that some people need someone to blame, regardless.


Yep, in this case the lockout, and resultant long term loss of business, is definitely down to management.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

sulphur said:


> I'm not sure why the workers are getting the blame for getting locked out.
> They were also willing to still work under the existing contract.
> 
> I guess that some people need someone to blame, regardless.


I have insider information from family that were part of the CP meetings. This is all specifically the union, the workers wanted arbitration and were going to vote as such but the union reps wouldn't have it and kicked people out of the meetings. A union that doesn't represent it's members is a waste if you ask me.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

On the news Friday (6/08), they were reporting that the Union rejected a 30 day extension. The reason being, after the 30 days, an arbitrator would have be called in to resolve the dispute.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Electraglide said:


> I got a letter yesterday....from Service Canada. They got my application for the Guaranteed Income Supplement....on the 9th of Feb. 2015. They need my marraige certificate.....to be sent by mail. The letter was mailed in Edmonton on the 30th of June this year. Any delays may result in a potential lose of benefits.


That sucks. I would ask them if they would accept an emailed photo of your marriage certificate. I've done this with a Green Shield issue.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Guitar101 said:


> On the news Friday (6/08), they were reporting that the Union rejected a 30 day extension. The reason being, after the 30 days, an arbitrator would have be called in to resolve the dispute.


That's the first thing I thought of when I heard management's offer. They want arbitration but would negotiate for another month first. Knowing they would eventually get their arbitration, how motivated would they have been to negotiate at settlement? IMO, they would have just dicked around and let the clock tick.

But what is the issue with the union and arbitration? What are they so scared of?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Guitar101 said:


> That sucks. I would ask them if they would accept an emailed photo of your marriage certificate. I've done this with a Green Shield issue.


Nope. It's the gov't so photocopy certified that it's a true copy of the original. The certified part is no problem, half the people who work where my wife works can do that. I doubt if it can be dropped of at service Canada here. No e-mail addy or fax # on the forms....it has to be mailed. The wife will take care of it next week.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> That's the first thing I thought of when I heard management's offer. They want arbitration but would negotiate for another month first. Knowing they would eventually get their arbitration, how motivated would they have been to negotiate at settlement? IMO, they would have just dicked around and let the clock tick.
> 
> But what is the issue with the union and arbitration? What are they so scared of?


That's what I want to know too. Are they certain they'd lose?

Not the first time - in fact it seems more common than not - that a union is bargaining counter to its members desires, though in general I get that they are still bargaining for their members' benefit.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

From what I've heard in the news, it's pensions that is the main issue. Canada post wants to change the pension system for new hires but will leave the present system as is for the people working for Canada Post and the union does not want to sell out the new hires.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

Most Unionized companies have been forced to take huge concessions over the last 10 years. Why should Canada Post be any different? That's what their Union is afraid of. Canada Post employees are unskilled labour and they get paid a lot of money for what they do compared to other unskilled labourers.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

*Postal Service Will Not Be Interrupted While Negotiations Continue*
"Canada Post has withdrawn its 72-hour notice, which was to take effect Monday, July 11. As a result, there will be no lockout. We also expect the Canadian Union of Postal Workers (CUPW) to honour what it has said publicly on many occasions – that they wish to negotiate and have no plans to issue a strike notice.

We therefore expect mail service to continue without interruption, and we feel you can ship with us with confidence. In the event of a strike or lockout, either party has to issue a 72-hour notice and should this occur we would advise you immediately."

UGGGGHHHHH... Just figure out what you're doing already. Please. The lengthy indecision is worse than just going on lockout and getting it over with.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I don't doubt that part of the motivation for withdrawing the lockout is the potential permanent loss of business it might have created.

But here's the thing: customers for a mail/delivery service predicate their choice of service on _whether your service is predictable over the long haul_, not on whether you've changed your mind about the next 2 weeks or not. Even though CP withdrew the lockout threat, I would imagine for some customers that doesn't change anything. They want to know what they can depend on.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

mhammer said:


> I don't doubt that part of the motivation for withdrawing the lockout is the potential permanent loss of business it might have created.
> 
> But here's the thing: customers for a mail/delivery service predicate their choice of service on _whether your service is predictable over the long haul_, not on whether you've changed your mind about the next 2 weeks or not. Even though CP withdrew the lockout threat, I would imagine for some customers that doesn't change anything. They want to know what they can depend on.


You're right. They've already lost millions in the past 3 weeks as their commercial customers continue to drop like flies. The last few weeks worth of lost business is mostly going to stay gone for at least a year due to their customers opening new contracts with competing couriers.

Strike/lockout or come to terms. Prolonging the uncertainty is only going to continue hurting them and their customers.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

At one time, they were just about an essential service. Now they are an option, one of quite a few. They (primarily the union) need to wrap their collective heads around that.

The times, they have 'a changed.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> At one time, they were just about an essential service. Now they are an option, one of quite a few. They (primarily the union) need to wrap their collective heads around that.
> 
> The times, they have 'a changed.



There are a lot of things unions can't wrap their heads around and that is just one of them. Competition from cheaper labour sources/countries is another, and I'm not talking China or Mexico, I'm talking the US. Failure to do that lost a lot of friends their jobs a few years ago, those who eventually found new jobs did so at significantly less money than the union turned down in the first place. So that's months or years of lost wages only to end up making less in the long run. How did that help the union membership? I get the principal of the thing, but at the end of the day union "leadership" should be looking out for the best interests of it's membership, NOT the Union Exec.

Sorry, that one still really pisses me off.

It was all triggered by a management decision to sell the company many years ago but once that was a done deal then the union exec really needed to wake up to a new reality.

Postal workers are faced with a similar situation with one major difference, they have a guaranteed source of income, regardless of their profit/loss balance sheets.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I'm not a union supporter in general. IMO, the entire need for unions (in civilized countries) is completely antiquated. Sure in the 30s when people were forced to work unreasonable hours in unsafe conditions for peanuts and were at the mercy of ownership, yeah unions were a necessary and good thing. Now? None of the reasons for their creation exist. All those things are now protected by the government. Now their mantra only seems to be "give us more for less".

I'm sure there are union types here who would disagree but I could care less what they think and won't allow myself to be dragged into that argument. They need to sit down and really think about how bad they think they have it and take a reality check. They don't know bad and probably never will until the gravy train makes it's last stop and reality finally hits them.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> Nope. It's the gov't so photocopy certified that it's a true copy of the original. The certified part is no problem, half the people who work where my wife works can do that. I doubt if it can be dropped of at service Canada here. No e-mail addy or fax # on the forms....it has to be mailed. The wife will take care of it next week.


fedex, canpar, DHL, Purolator?
I know it'll likely cost $10-15, but prob worth it in the end.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

JBFairthorne said:


> I'm not a union supporter in general. IMO, the entire need for unions (in civilized countries) is completely antiquated. Sure in the 30s when people were forced to work unreasonable hours in unsafe conditions for peanuts and were at the mercy of ownership, yeah unions were a necessary and good thing. Now? None of the reasons for their creation exist. All those things are now protected by the government. Now their mantra only seems to be "give us more for less".
> 
> I'm sure there are union types here who would disagree but I could care less what they think and won't allow myself to be dragged into that argument. They need to sit down and really think about how bad they think they have it and take a reality check. They don't know bad and probably never will until the gravy train makes it's last stop and reality finally hits them.


I've heard this bullshit for years now, and that's what it is, bullshit.

Work for a multi-national corporation that gives zero fucks about you or your community.
Do you really think that corporations have mercy these days? Funny stuff.

Protected by the government? There are only a couple of provinces with an anti-scab law.
That's the "protection" you can expect, only for the corporations.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

sulphur said:


> Work for a multi-national corporation that gives zero fucks about you or your community.
> Do you really think that corporations have mercy these days? Funny stuff.
> 
> Protected by the government? There are only a couple of provinces with an anti-scab law.
> That's the "protection" you can expect, only for the corporations.


This is a sad reality. When GM sold the Locomotive and Defence divisions they could have cared less about the impact to the local economy. We were lucky on the Defence side and flourished. Locomotive is gone, along with 1,000's of workers, many of them skilled labourers and engineers. The white collar workforce were just gone, no one to look out for them The union had a chance to negotiate and ratify what looked like a really shitty deal but it was better than the alternative. What they should have done is ratified the deal and given their membership some time to find new jobs while they were still getting paid. Everyone realized it was a no win situation for the workers but the union execs dug in their heels and pushed for a strike. Comes a time when it's no longer about making a point, it's about feeding your family and paying the rent. On the plus side acceptance of the offer would have screwed the company's plans to move big time. They'd still have gone, imho, but it would have been a lot more difficult than just locking the doors.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Yes, there's no guaranteed anything these days.
Belonging to a union doesn't change that either.

I do believe that there's strength in numbers, but if your leadership has its own agenda, or are just buffons, that negates any collective power you have.
Unions are in no way perfect, but certainly are not antiquated due to the globalization of the economy.

Protection from our government is a pipe dream, imo.
They wouldn't have privatized WSIB for one, if there was any regard for the workers well being.
Just look at the shitshow that this CP dispute has turned into.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

sulphur said:


> Yes, there's no guaranteed anything these days.
> Belonging to a union doesn't change that either.


The only thing that's guaranteed is if you bring value to the company, if you do something that is worth what they pay you, you are OK. Either in that job or in the job market.

If a private employer can pay someone $X/hr to deliver packages, how can CP be competitive at $5 more? Those jobs are worth what they're worth - there is no more "we're the only ones who can do that, so you're gonna pay us whatever we demand". Remember when they always went on strike around xmas time - they were holding the whole country hostage because they were a unique entity. Some of us have long memories................

When the nurses went on strike a few months before the Calgary Olympics, there was a lot of support, because a) you really, really need nurses when you have that many people coming to town and b) not just anyone can do the job, it takes training and skill. There are times when unions work still in this era, but there are unions that are on some cloud 99 somewhere else, much to the chagrin of their members.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Diablo said:


> fedex, canpar, DHL, Purolator?
> I know it'll likely cost $10-15, but prob worth it in the end.


If it was a real biggy I could drive to edmonton but as of the moment the mail is still flowing so it should get there soon. If it takes as long for them to look at it as it did for them to tell me I had to send the copy the retro cheque should be large.....if I get anything. Probably won't tho.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

To continue the PSA theme of this thread......I just had a decent experience with DHL. On a Package from Antique Electronics in Arizona, 7.4 lbs (a 50 watt output transformer and misc bits & pieces), shipping cost with DHL was $26 while USPS was $47 for 2 weeks and $65 for 1 week express. I welcome adventure so I went DHL for the first time. I ordered Sunday night, & the package was delivered this morning. They said 2 day delivery and they weren't kidding. They did ding me extra for duty & taxes of course, but only $22.43. I find that reasonable. And their web site is very easy to use too. Everything was clearly stated, there was an option to pay my duty & taxes online. There was also an option to re-direct my delivery from my home to my work. I would use DHL again for an online purchase.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Speaking of Canada Post...as we were leaving for vacation this past Monday we noticed our super box wide open, full of mail and no postal truck in site. SMH.

We grabbed our mail and proceeded to drive around our neighborhood looking for the postal truck. We finally found the old guy and my wife lets him know that he left the door wide open and he gives her an odd look as if he'd never do that. SMH.

We finally found a number to call and file a complaint and hopefully they followed up by sending somebody out to check that out box was finally closed. Not likely.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Any updates on whats happening with a possible strike?


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

guitarman2 said:


> Any updates on whats happening with a possible strike?


Still in negotiations.

Canada Post and their union of workers have publicly stated that they do not want to halt operations. However, until a new contract has been signed the reality is that either party could still give 72 hours notice to strike/lockout at any time.

While it does seem very unlikely that a strike or a lockout will happen, the possibility remains.


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

johnnyshaka said:


> We finally found the old guy and my wife lets him know that he left the door wide open and he gives her an odd look as if he'd never do that. SMH.


I had a package that was marked as delivered to my superbox. It wasn't in there, so I figured the key was probably in one of my neighbours slots or he'd forgotten to leave the key. I called CP, asked them to open the box and look. They had the postman ring my doorbell. He told me that he'd never make a mistake like that and that I should sort out the order with the shipper. I walked him over to the box, asked him to open it up so we could look together. Guess what was there? My package, he'd forgotten to leave the key. He was dumbfounded and told me that this was the first instance in 20 years of delivering mail that something like this has happened.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Lord-Humongous said:


> I had a package that was marked as delivered to my superbox. It wasn't in there, so I figured the key was probably in one of my neighbours slots or he'd forgotten to leave the key. I called CP, asked them to open the box and look. They had the postman ring my doorbell. He told me that he'd never make a mistake like that and that I should sort out the order with the shipper. I walked him over to the box, asked him to open it up so we could look together. Guess what was there? My package, he'd forgotten to leave the key. He was dumbfounded and told me that this was the first instance in 20 years of delivering mail that something like this has happened.


you have to understand, like flyer delivery men and librarians, they have a very demanding and complicated job, requiring unique skills and talents, working with bleeding edge technology with no margin for error, so the stress of the negotiations must be weighing heavily on your postie...it would be best if this gets resolved asap at any cost.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Lord-Humongous said:


> I had a package that was marked as delivered to my superbox. It wasn't in there, so I figured the key was probably in one of my neighbours slots or he'd forgotten to leave the key. I called CP, asked them to open the box and look. They had the postman ring my doorbell. He told me that he'd never make a mistake like that and that I should sort out the order with the shipper. I walked him over to the box, asked him to open it up so we could look together. Guess what was there? My package, he'd forgotten to leave the key. He was dumbfounded and told me that this was the first instance in 20 years of delivering mail that something like this has happened.


People make mistakes all the time...nobody's perfect. All you have to do is apologize sincerely, own up to your mistake and do whatever you can to make it right and all should be forgiven. But instead you get defensive and put on your "holier than thou" hat and a small mistake turns into a forum discussion where guys and gals all over the world point and laugh. When will we ever learn?!

I wonder if your postie and mine are related? Perhaps they went to Postie College together?


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

It's one thing to make a mistake. It's another to swear up and down that there's no way you could make such a mistake only to be proven that you DID.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Latest update... No progress made and nothing new to report. Despite both parties saying they don't want to strike or lockout, 72 hours notice is still a possibility by either party.

Canada Post open for business but little progress in talks


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

jbealsmusic said:


> Latest update... No progress made and nothing new to report.


Weird update


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Jamdog said:


> Weird update


lol Yeah. It was a weird phone call.

"This is just an update to let you know that there are no new updates."

Thanks guys! Appreciate you keeping us in the loop.


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

jbealsmusic said:


> lol Yeah. It was a weird phone call.
> 
> "This is just an update to let you know that there are no new updates."
> 
> Thanks guys! Appreciate you keeping us in the loop.


I see the headlines :

"Extra! Extra! 
Nothing happens! "


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

As far as I am concerned, this stalemate can go on forever.

I'm getting all of my essential mail and almost no junk mail. I did get one bit of junk mail today though - from UPS!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

jbealsmusic said:


> lol Yeah. It was a weird phone call.
> 
> "This is just an update to let you know that there are no new updates."
> 
> Thanks guys! Appreciate you keeping us in the loop.


I used to love seeing in technical manuals: "This page left intentional blank." Well, it was until you scribbled that on it, you dolt!


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

High/Deaf said:


> I used to love seeing in technical manuals: "This page left intentional blank." Well, it was until you scribbled that on it, you dolt!


There's a reason to leave empty pages for spacing sections. 

But there's also issues with printing process. 

So it is customary to announce your intention for a blank page in order to not alert the publication team when they print the document and see a blank page.


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

This post left intentionally blank.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Jamdog said:


> This post left intentionally blank.


And sent by mail?


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

If I send letter to myself, and put your address as sender, but forget to put stamps, will they bring it to you asking for stamps?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Jamdog said:


> If I send letter to myself, and put your address as sender, but forget to put stamps, will they bring it to you asking for stamps?


Let's see. Letter dropped off at a Montreal post office with a Red Deer return address? It would show up at my door marked "Insufficient Postage" but I doubt if they'd ask for stamps.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Looks like Canada post and the union has reached an impasse and is bracing for a strike next week.

Canada Post: Talks With Union Have “Reached An Impasse”


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

guitarman2 said:


> Looks like Canada post and the union has reached an impasse and is bracing for a strike next week.
> 
> Canada Post: Talks With Union Have “Reached An Impasse”


Yup... Not good for business.

Canada Post - Update


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## Guest (Aug 26, 2016)

from the National Post


CUPW issues strike notice after it says Canada Post refused special mediator

OTTAWA — _The union representing a majority of workers at Canada Post has issued a 72-hour 
notice of job action as it tries to bargain a collective agreement with the Crown corporation.

The Canadian Union of Postal Workers says the notice spells out what actions it is planning,
but stops short of a full-blown walkout.

CUPW national president Mike Palecek says Canada Post forced the labour disruption by refusing to accept 
a request from the federal labour minister to continue negotiations with the help of a special mediator.

But a spokesman for the agency says that’s not the case.

The union’s strike mandate was set to expire at midnight.

The two sides have been in negotiations for more than nine months but are far apart on key issues including 
pay equity for rural carriers and proposed changes to the Canada Post pension plan._


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

3 things come to mind:

1) Giving the 72 hour notice means the union will be in a legal position to strike as of August 28, 2016. Unfortunately, it doesn't guarantee that they will strike. It just further prolongs the one thing we've all been feeling for the past 2 months. Uncertainty. Strike or don't strike. Lockout or don't lockout. Don't just leave things constantly up in the air as you have been. The uncertainty is more dangerous for CP and their customers than the other options.

2) If they decide not to strike on August 28, they can still strike at any time after that without warning. At least up until this point they had to provide 72 hours notice. Now, they can just call a strike and not show up to work at any time.

3) If they do strike, mail and parcels currently on route to their destination will simply not be delivered and won't be available for pickup until after the strike is over. Not a pretty sight for people expecting pension cheques, medication by mail, etc.


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## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

This is the biggest pain in the ass. if you don't like the benefits you are receiving from your employer.... seek other employment!


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

tomsy49 said:


> This is the biggest pain in the ass. if you don't like the benefits you are receiving from your employer.... seek other employment!


What's the option when the employer doesn't like your benefits?
Do you know what the dispute is about?


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## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

I read about it and that they want to change from a defined benefit pension plan to a defined contribution plan for new employees. I don't really see a big issue with that. Instead of receiving a defined amount when you retire based on how long you work etc, your contributions are matched by the employer and placed in some sort of investment fund to grow over time. Everyone that is working in the union already has their defined benefit pension plan and only new hires will be affected. Again i don't really see how this is a big deal. But that's just my opinion which means nothing haha.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

There's another issue with unequal pay for rural workers.

I just don't see the reason, or sense in placing the blame on the employees.
The way I see it, they've been forced into a corner with a beligerent employer.

Why not get in a mediator? 
That's on the corporation. Why drag this out so long?


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## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

No i definitely understand its not the employers fault. My initial comment was a bit ignorant and in annoyance of the situation. There's a lot of issues happening. I thought it was the workers union who wouldn't agree to a mediator initially?


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

sulphur said:


> Why not get in a mediator?
> That's on the corporation. Why drag this out so long?


It's really not so cut and dry. The corporation requested binding arbitration 2 months ago, but the union refused. The union requested a mediator last week, and the corporation refused.

After the 72 hour notice was issued by the union yesterday, the corporation agreed to mediation by a neutral third party.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I realize that it takes two to tango and it is and has been a mess.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Just ordered my second guitar in the pas couple months, from the states. Again had to use UPS.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

JBFairthorne said:


> I'm not a union supporter in general. IMO, the entire need for unions (in civilized countries) is completely antiquated. Sure in the 30s when people were forced to work unreasonable hours in unsafe conditions for peanuts and were at the mercy of ownership, yeah unions were a necessary and good thing. Now? None of the reasons for their creation exist. All those things are now protected by the government. Now their mantra only seems to be "give us more for less".
> 
> I'm sure there are union types here who would disagree but I could care less what they think and won't allow myself to be dragged into that argument. They need to sit down and really think about how bad they think they have it and take a reality check. They don't know bad and probably never will until the gravy train makes it's last stop and reality finally hits them.


I could not agree more. I've worked both union and non-union. I'll never be union again. A union is one thing and one thing only; A business in itself, doing little and collecting fat handfuls from the people they represent. I've seen strikes resolved with little improvements in settlements followed by big raises for the union ceo's shortly thereafter. Then there's the "hands out" expectations and complacency that unions promote. Yes there's good, hard working union people, but a good deal of duds working alongside of them pulling down the same wage.

I run a shop that had 2 union scares this year. If the union ever got in, I will roll up the carpet and open my own shop. Eff that.

If you work hard and are good at what you do, you write your own cheque and pave your own way. Mind you, I'm a tradesman in an area with a good economy.

Any public sector union who puts the citizens over a barrel to get what they want makes me sick. Should not be allowed.

Let Canada Post fade away or privatize it. I could care less. I do nearly everything electronically


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Maybe it's my anti-social nature, maybe somethng else, but I will never willingly join a union.

Any tme I have had to do so, it was a stepping stone to management.

I'm happier negotiating my own agreements. I don't generally get along well with the sort of people who choose to become union "leaders".

I've seen two factories close for reasons I personally asssociate with the unions in place.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Scotty said:


> I could not agree more. I've worked both union and non-union. I'll never be union again. A union is one thing and one thing only; A business in itself, doing little and collecting fat handfuls from the people they represent. I've seen strikes resolved with little improvements in settlements followed by big raises for the union ceo's shortly thereafter. Then there's the "hands out" expectations and complacency that unions promote. Yes there's good, hard working union people, but a good deal of duds working alongside of them pulling down the same wage.
> 
> I run a shop that had 2 union scares this year. If the union ever got in, I will roll up the carpet and open my own shop. Eff that.
> 
> ...


I've worked union....Teamsters, IWA, Cupe and Electrical....if my next job is union I'll become union again.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Maybe it's my anti-social nature, maybe somethng else, but I will never willingly join a union.
> 
> Any tme I have had to do so, ot was a stepping stone to management.
> 
> ...


I tried management once....that lasted about 2 weeks and I asked to go back on the floor.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

What do you guys think will happen with Canada Post going forward, long term outlook?


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Here's an interesting read...The Left Chapter: Canada Post's 'problems' are driven by the neo-liberal assault on public services


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Man, please: go on strike. Kick up a huge stink. The sooner these clowns go out of business the better. How long will it be before snail mail is a thing of the past? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? These Canada Post employees should do themselves a favour and keep their heads down and squirrel what they can into their RRSPs. How much do they make per hour? For putting envelopes into the correct (sometimes) box?

They're like buggy drivers trying to stop the introduction of the motor vehicle:


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2016)

from the  National Post

Canada Post, postal union avert job action, reach tentative deals

_OTTAWA — Labour Minister MaryAnn Mihychuk says Canada Post and the 
Canadian Union of Postal Workers have reached tentative agreements, averting 
the prospect of a labour dispute that has loomed over the talks for months.

In a statement, Mihychuk says the agreements were reached “voluntarily,” but 
provides no other details about the deals themselves.

The issue of differences in paycheques for rural mail carriers — most of whom are 
women — and urban letter carriers had been at the forefront of protracted contract 
talks between the two sides.

The negotiations were extended twice since the weekend, when a deadline expired on a 
72-hour job action notice issued last Thursday by the Canadian Union of Postal Workers.

The two sides were in talks nearly around the clock at the request of a special mediator 
appointed Friday by Mihychuk._


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

laristotle said:


> _OTTAWA — Labour Minister MaryAnn Mihychuk says Canada Post and the
> Canadian Union of Postal Workers have reached *tentative agreements*, averting
> the prospect of a labour dispute that has loomed over the talks for months._


How long can we expect this to last? Saying that a "tentative agreement" has been reached and providing no details on the conditions or length of time that the agreement is valid doesn't do anything to re-inspire confidence in their reliability as a carrier.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Details Of Tentative Agreements

Turns out the new agreements are only valid for the next year and a half or so. That's really not far off in the grand scheme of things and it's a good bet we'll be back here again dealing with the same situation.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Dump the idiot CEO would be a good start.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

jbealsmusic said:


> Details Of Tentative Agreements
> 
> Turns out the new agreements are only valid for the next year and a half or so. That's really not far off in the grand scheme of things and it's a good bet we'll be back here again dealing with the same situation.


.......................................................and we're back!
Canada Post workers vote in favour of strike action if deal can't be reached | CBC News

Who called it!?


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## Judas68fr (Feb 5, 2013)

Coming from France, these strikes in Canada always make me laugh. It's always all about threats but it never goes through...


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Judas68fr said:


> Coming from France, these strikes in Canada always make me laugh. It's always all about threats but it never goes through...


Sometimes it does. Whether it does or doesn't happen is immaterial. Teasing it is FAR worse. Strike, lockout, or come to an agreement. Make a decision and stick to it. Don't screw around with your customers by leaving things up in the air (which is what normally happens during these negotiations.) That's worse for everyone involved.


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