# Need Your Opinion On Guitar Lessons, PLEASE



## Canadian Charlie (Apr 30, 2008)

Here's my story I'm asking here because I know there are alot of adults who have kids and alot of people who are middle aged as myself (I hate admitting that), 

I have been sending my 7 year old daughter to guitar lessons now for 11 months, once a week and an hour learning in a group of 2-6 people of different ages. All they have been teaching her are basic chords and a couple of scales, but no songs. I'm not expecting her to play KISS or Rush just maybe play "Mary had a little lamb" or "Jingle bells" that kind of stuff. 

But what really blew me away and made me write this thread in the first place is that yesterday she left her acustic laying on her bed and her 3 year old sister played with the machine heads and de-tuned it. Now today she went for her lesson and while there were only 3 students the teacher didn't bother to tune it and did not notice it was way out of tune when she played. I'll give her some blame as I told her to ask him to tune it and she didn't I did not have the time yesterday, but he should have noticed and tuned it. I just finished tuning it now. 

Now here is my question, as an adult what would you do?

A: Phone tomorrow and complain?
B: When her term is up have her take leassons some where else?
C: ..................................................................................?



I've taught her some chords but I don't really have the patience to teach, I'll leave that to a pro



Sorry for venting my anger








.:smilie_flagge17:


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## miikkakipper (Aug 25, 2008)

One on One is ALWAYS better, because she can ask questions, and the instructor will understand your childs playing style a lot more. Your child would learn more from internet lessons than in group sessions.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I had group lessons for part of my lesson experience--and the teacher either tuned the guitars--or got us to do it (Then he gave up & did it himself.)
But those were formal lessons--this sounds more like a group that happens to play guitar than actual lessons---which can be okay for some people.

The time may be too long as well--I'd call--to clarify the policies about the lessons--as opposed to just complaining.

I'd look elsewhere for somewhere that she'd learn something at--including tuning.


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## rippinglickfest (Jan 1, 2006)

*Lesson to be learned*

I think there should have been songs introduced right from the get go. There are plenty of super easy two or three chord ones out there. 7 year old kids get bored fast playing scales and chords with no tunes to go with it. Lastly a one to one lesson would be more beneficial, no distractions or waiting as in a group lesson setting.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

First, it is hard to say for sure when we only get one side of the story. Talk to the instructor, ask questions, and state your concerns clearly.

But given what you have said, I'd say you're getting ripped off. Instructors should, universally, make sure a student is in tune at the beginning of the lesson, no exceptions. Whether the student tunes, the instructor tunes, or it's part of the lesson, *there is no benefit to instructor, student, or guitar by being out of tune.* Period.

Observations: 

1) 11 months of weekly lessons and that's all she can do? Either the child has issues (no offense intended) or the instruction is exceedingly weak.

2) Group lessons are not the best environment for a 7 year old, private tutors are best at that and every age. (I do private lessons most of the year and a couple of music camps/schools in the summer.)

3) You haven't given us much about the instructor. Age, experience, motives, credentials. Sounds like a young, inexperienced, disinterested, poorly trained teacher putting in time with no oversight...or an incompetent.

4) You've waited a long time to express your concerns to the teacher. This should have been done months ago.

5) I make it a professional policy not to scoop students from the competition, but don't feel guilty about pulling your kid and sending her elsewhere. You own it to her, to your wallet, and to the instructor who likely needs to get the message.

Good luck, and let us know what happens.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Canadian Charlie (Apr 30, 2008)

I've asked my daughter if they ever taught her how to tune a guitar, she replied with a "NO"

Awhile ago they told me that she needed a metrodome to play with during the lessons so I bought her one. Since August she has only used it 3 times there, but she uses it at home everytime she practices. 

She has had 3 instructor in the 11 months she has been there. 

I have bought her a book with easy songs to play when she is at home and also takes it to the lessons never to be used



I'd like to thank all those that replyed to my angry thread and respect your decissions. When her term is up in a few weeks time I will be signing her up somewhere else. She is only 7 and isn't too smart as if she is getting ripped off or not



:smilie_flagge17::rockon::smilie_flagge17:


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Group lessons are for the benefit of the instructor. So they can make more money. I would never consider sending my child to group lessons. It will always be slower. I took lessons when I was 12, for 6 months at the Royal conservatory of music. First week they taught us the first note of the G chord. Second week the second note, third week the third note. 3 weeks to learn one chord.
I don't care what the excuse or policy. Any instructor that sits through a lesson while the student is way out of tune, just doesn't care about teaching. Having a tuner is useful but doesn't teach them the fundamentals of how to tune. Instructor should require a student to have a tuning fork to get to pitch then teach tuning. Should be in the first lesson.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Paul said:


> You teach guitar, and I don't, so I'll give you a great deal of credibility here. However, the larger the group, the less practical it becomes for a teacher to tune, or verify the tuning, of every instrument. While not entirely on point, I think my example here is apt. APT!!, (thank you Lisa Simpson.)
> 
> My wife teaches primary grades. Many times parents will send in treats to share with the class on the day of the childs birthday. One parent sent in microwave popcorn. 25 bags of microwave popcorn. My wife sent it back at the end of the day with a polite "thanks but no thanks" note. The parent was livid and wrote to everyone to complain, including the local paper, (which fact checked, and then declined to publish). How dare my wife not allow the child to celebrate a birthday with school friends?
> 
> ...


With respect, I've never used Kijiji as word of mouth is quite enough, and I can tune fast, never mind the fact that students are urged (okay, commanded) to at least have their guitars close to in tune when they arrive, arrive early and tweak them if necesary. This is where good time management works...students should be already doing warm-ups and scales when I go around to doublecheck their tuning.

Besides, groups larger than 8 or 10 with guitars are very impractical.

Peace, Mooh.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Paul said:


> In a group of 20 guitar students, (and I know the OP said the day in question only had 3 in the group), having the teacher either tune, or verify tuning will take up a 3rd of a one hour class.


Why the heck would the teacher do anything for the students? I want an instructor that teaches me how not do it for me. In the first lesson all students show up with their tuning fork. They are run through the process of tuning. At the beginning of every class the instructor starts off with everyone tuning together. Following this ritual makes sure every one is in tune together. As each week passes the beginning ritual of tuning should take less and less time as the students become more comfortable with the process. Every where you take your guitar the first thing you do is tune it. So thats how the lessons should start.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

"too frequently the teacher, the parent and the child/student have 3 completely different and uncommunicated sets of expectations." 

O so true!

As a complete aside, parents yesterday pulled their kid from lessons because I refused their third party cheque after they bounced four personal cheques. The logic of giving me cash to continue lessons shouldn't be hard if you can write a cheque, otherwise...never mind...anyway, the kid's expectations are shattered, and my expectations amount to disappointment because the kid is a great student. But I don't work for free. (Btw, I do think the customer has the means.)

Basic expectations however, should be quite clear. Regular payment, attendance, practice, progress on skills, theory, etc in exchange for regular, skilled, caring, and attentive instruction.

Peace, Mooh.

P.S. Thanks Paul.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Mooh said:


> "too frequently the teacher, the parent and the child/student have 3 completely different and uncommunicated sets of expectations."
> 
> O so true!
> 
> ...


When I taught, it was through a music school, and they handled the business end of things, which suited me fine, as I don't care much for it--but still there were often unrealistic expectations from parents. A drawback of my set up was that parents didn't always come to me with concerns, but would go through the office, and miscommunications happened. Some parents had the opposite view of what really happened. I always appreciated the parents who took time to ask me how their child was doing, and to voice concerns. If there was something I could do to accommodate them, within reason, I wanted to know that. They were paying the bill after all. If there was a good reason I couldn't accommodate them, I wanted to make sure they understood. 

Another problem was that the school taught other instruments, and the parents would compare how their one child taking guitar sounded compared to their other child playing organ--using settings that gave backing music and eliminated the touch sensitive function--as well as being informed which sounds to use to sound the best. Of course the organ would give better sound. Parents who asked were given an honest, clear explanation. Parents who didn't were sometimes frustrated. 

I had a kid who cried during his final lesson. He wanted to play guitar, he enjoyed playing, enjoyed the lessons, and was making very good progress. His parents had unrealistic expectations, but would not communicate those with me, I had no sign of an issue, they just yanked the kid out of guitar, and switched instruments. (The school wasn't too concerned, as he stayed with the school--they still got paid, and now could sell the family a more expensive instrument. This was one of the frustrations I had there, and part of the reason I was glad to have seen the last of it.

I loved teaching, but there were frustrations there too.

That's why I advised clarifying things with the teacher(s).

And I would advise that for all parents with children taking music lessons of any sort. Talk to the teacher-talk to the school, if that's a separate entity as well, but certainly talk to the teacher.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Mooh said:


> As a complete aside, parents yesterday pulled their kid from lessons because I refused their third party cheque after they bounced four personal cheques.


Yucky situation. I feel for you.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Thanks. I was already cutting them some slack by allowing them to write their cheques for late in the month instead of the first of the month because of their alimony/welfare/whatever cheque dates. Payment in advance is how I normally do things but I will make exceptions for folks in need with deserving kids. Their first three rubber cheques were eventually covered but I warned them after the third that if they did it again I would require cash. Now they're not taking my calls and they still own me for September. 

I wonder if the kid knows what sort of people his parents are. Bet he does...

Peace, Mooh.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Paul said:


> That's why you can never bend rules or cut slack. You taught the parents early on that prompt payment wasn't necessary. They learned the new "on time" payment plan, and then they were only a little bit late with that. Obviously it's you that have the problem. <sarcasm off>
> 
> I read where a day care had a problem with parents picking up kids 5, 10 and 15 minutes late on a too frequent basis. This put an extra supervision burden on the day care, one that they did not agree to. So the day care instituted a fine system, $5.00 for every 15 minutes late. The number of late parents dramatically increased, because the parents didn't view it as a fine for late behaviour, they viewed it as a purchase for extra supervision time. The day care got rid of the fines, and the increased tardiness remained.
> 
> Sometimes you have to remain rigid....bidness is bidness. They took money from you that could have been used to feed your children.


For the most part, agreed, point taken. The parents already didn't care about prompt payment, they didn't need me to teach them, though I enabled them. Thanks for the slap.

When I called it an exception, that means it's literally one month's payment out of thousands (60 students x 10 months x 5 years (or more, I think since the last uncollected payment, this particular customer has eventually made good on 3 revious bad cheques, I doubt they'll cover this since the scuttlebutt around the scene here is they're already looking for another teacher). A couple of the local competition call about for references...that'll be interesting...LOL! Pity the child.

For me, I just got much more rigid.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Canadian Charlie said:


> I've asked my daughter if they ever taught her how to tune a guitar, she replied with a "NO"
> 
> Awhile ago they told me that she needed a metrodome to play with during the lessons so I bought her one. Since August she has only used it 3 times there, but she uses it at home everytime she practices.
> 
> ...


Sorry I missed this post earlier, and sorry I highjacked your thread. Seems like a lost cause now. Good luck on your search. There *are* good instructors out there. 

Peace, Mooh.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

i wouldnt let it bother me- not many 7 year olds can learn easily to tune a guitar, thats something most adults dont grasp if you try to teach them.
maybe the teacher shouldve tuned the guitar, seeing as it was only 3 students, but whatever.
my 6 year old niece, at the last family gathering, had to leave for her weekly ukelele lesson- she doesnt see me much and when she returned was real excited to show me what she has been learning.
her uke was pathetically out of tune, covered with confusing position stickers and gunk- but she sang and played a few tunes, all easily recognizable- and was so proud.......... then i tuned her uke for her- and her songs didnt work anymore- so there ya go lol


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