# Transparent Guitar Cables?



## seanmj (May 9, 2009)

I've been using Rapco Road Hog cables for years. Then someone handed me a George L. I did an A/B test between the two... and chose the Road Hogs. 

Yes I know cables are passive.... but it wasn't just a subtle difference... it was pretty substantial.

The George L's allowed more top end to pass.... but rolled off A LOT of bottom.... not a little...A LOT.... compared to the Road Hogs.

The George L's are annoying to no end. They constantly break down on me, and they are constantly getting tangled/coiled up. I got them when I started to run more pedals in my rig.

I'd like a cable that has the best of both worlds.... though something stock. Otherwise... I might as well go to AVR and have them cut me a bunch of Mogami's or something... but it might be a little pricey.

Suggestions?

Sean Meredith-Jones
http://www.seanmeredithjones.com


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## Thames (Oct 19, 2009)

I wouldnt use transparent cable... very hard to find on dark stages... and a pain to roll'em...


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## Thames (Oct 19, 2009)

Go Dimarzio ! great cables, reliable, and very nice tone for the price.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

oh oh...here we go again...

go wireless...


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2009)

jimihendrix said:


> oh oh...here we go again...




I'm not going to say a freaking word. Not a word.



> go wireless...


That's a great suggestion. Get an X2 unit from Line6, enjoy having every last little bit of sonic out from your guitar arrive at your destination of choice, and then use the EQ at the destination to tailor to suit.

Dammit! I said word! ARGH! :smile:


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## Guest (Oct 20, 2009)

seanmj said:


> The George L's allowed more top end to pass.... but rolled off A LOT of bottom.... not a little...A LOT.... compared to the Road Hogs.


This isn't so much a question for you seanmj. I'm just quoting you because it's convenient.

I'm having difficulties envisioning how a cable can create a bandpass filter setup. If I stop trying to find an inductor in the idealization (because I can't find one) and think of it as two separate filters: a high pass and low pass filter, I can't see how you can have a high pass filter that cuts any significant amount of bass because R is big (~1M right?) so the corner frequency on the high pass filter is incredibly low.

Anyone got a technical explanation for how this can happen?


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## SkyFire_ca (Jul 16, 2007)

can't help you on the technical side but...

I'm glad to hear theres someone else who likes these friggin roadhog cables... I thought I was the only guy who did...

I bought mine as a "high end" cable back before I found the interweb, you know? back when I thought boutique was a place you bought fine silverware and china. Well, let the surprise cross my face when I played 40 ft of roadhog against about 35 or so of G-L ... what's the old commercial? "I can't see a difference, can you see a difference?"

suffice to say, I'll probably switch for my board for the sake of wiring convenience but these silly roadhog cables with their "gold plated low resistance" connects do just fine by me.

mind you... I didn't really see an increase in top end, or a decrease in low end so perhaps my ears are useless, which would explain a lot.


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## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

Evidence Audio cables. Expensive, but worth the investment.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Samsquantch said:


> Evidence Audio cables. Expensive, but worth the investment.


Evidence Audio is what I invested in. I wired my pedal board with E.A. Melody, Pedal board to reverb tank to amp are wired with Lyric HG and Siren II for amp head to speaker cab. Originally I had a Lyric HG for guitar to pedal board with a Nuetrik silent connector. But either the cable or the connector died on me. Also the short Lyric HG cable from reverb tank to amp was defective on arrival. Mark at Lava cable sent me a replacement for the short cable right away. When my guitar cable died I sent it to Mark to be fixed but he accidentally refunded my credit card. I would have straightened it out but in the mean time Tony at Evidence Audio sent me a Forte which is supposed to be as good as the Lyric HG but more flexible. At the time Forte hadn't even been released yet. The Lyric HG is very stiff and isn't too much of a problem for my reverb tank and amp but as a guitar cable it was annoying. The forte is great in this respect. Much better for stage. 
As for performance, well so far I'm not impressed with reliability. The one short cable came defective. I never heard what was wrong with the guitar cable but I suspect it may have been the Nuetrik end that died. Mark at lavacable and Tony from Evidence Audio said that my problems were not indictative of normal reliability for these cables. I guess I have to beleive them as I'm sure their not sending out free cables and cross shipping cables every day. If they were it would hardly be worth being in business.
As for tone improvements, I think that these cables offer a little more clarity. Some may describe this as an increase in high end, but thats not really it. If it were just an increase in high end I could turn the treble up. But if your amp is not clear just turning the amp up would probably produce spikey ugly high end. The high end improvement I'm getting is more clarity and the high end is a more musical pleasant sound than my Planet Waves. 
Now are they $650 improvement (which is what these cables cost me). Not even close. At home with critical listening I can hear a difference. And I do alot of playing and recording at home. But live there really is no difference. Not jaw dropping as I've heard some describe. If I had it to do over again knowing what I know I would not order these cables. I will certainly keep all my Planet waves cables as backup as they are a great cable.
I'd love to try Vanden hull but I will never spend the money just to try them.


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## Doc Plus (Oct 21, 2009)

There is no transparent cable. Each will sound different.
I didn't like so much GL's because it's too much bright for me, but you can't say that GL rolls of a lot of bottom.
You said that because you compare it to your rapco road hog (I've got one). This rapco retains a lot of high an clarity ... but you like it.
The important is to find the cable you like, and not the cable which is supposed to sound good.

Make your own cable (mogami is used by Bradshaw for example) is a good idea. I did my patch cable with evidence audio monorail and switchcraft plugs. It's not so expansive.


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## Brennan (Apr 9, 2008)

iaresee said:


> That's a great suggestion. Get an X2 unit from Line6, enjoy having every last little bit of sonic out from your guitar arrive at your destination of choice, and then use the EQ at the destination to tailor to suit.


This was my solution, and it was easily one of the best musical purchases I've made. I can't begin to tell you how nice it is to not be tied down to your gear while on stage (even if you don't move around much). The X2 units are decently priced, and about as transparent as you can get from wireless.


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

Still using the same 4 Whirlwind leader cables I bought back in my university days (1989) almost daily, and its almost 2010!

I think I paid about $20 a cable for them, so thats $1 a year so far. Been gigged, used at home (stepped on and yanked out, walked over and so forth for years and years) and lent out countless times. They sit well on the ground - not to light, not too heavy. The ends/plugs are nice as well.

And they just keep working...

No way am I ever going to pay $100 + for a cable. WHen these eventually crap out, I will invest another $25 in Whirlwinds.

I read all the time on guitar forums how guys are wrecking cables less than a year old, or buying crazy priced cables, etc.

WHIRLWIND.....:smile:

AJC


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

jimihendrix said:


> oh oh...here we go again...
> 
> go wireless...


I don't gig, but I'd love a wireless.

If it worked well enough I'd run all over the house while my amp blasted it out in the basement--it would be fun.


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## seanmj (May 9, 2009)

I have to laugh at the wireless idea guys. Exactly how are you going to connect your guitar to the transmitter? Exactly how are you going to connect your receiver to the amp? I realize you're joking... but still...

Those pesky cables... you just can't get away from them.

Sean Meredith-Jones
http://www.seanmeredithjones.com


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

seanmj said:


> I have to laugh at the wireless idea guys. Exactly how are you going to connect your guitar to the transmitter? Exactly how are you going to connect your receiver to the amp? I realize you're joking... but still...
> 
> Those pesky cables... you just can't get away from them.
> 
> ...


I laugh at the wireless idea to. 2 of the guys in my band (lead singer and bass player) are wireless and are always experiencing trouble. One night one of the little proprietary wires that connects to the transmitter on his belt, died. Not much he could do as he didn't have another one. These guys have to rely on plain old guitar cable almost as much as me.
I like a very basic technology and to me wirless adds another layer of complexity. Without wireless its one less thing that can go wrong. With my cables I have a ton of back ups and it only takes a second or 2 to swap out a bad cable.


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## seanmj (May 9, 2009)

With respect to me hearing substantial difference between two cables and others not... there are still some other factors to consider.... guitar and amps specifically.

A guitar that doesn't have any top end to begin... you probably won't notice much of a difference. The cable won't reproduce what wasn't there to begin with. An amp that doesn't go down that low in the frequency range... you also won't notice that much of a difference in the low end dept.

The Rapco is a much bigger cable than the uber skinny GL cables I have... which does account for some of the difference in bottom end.

When I first got a GL cable to try a few years ago... I recorded a guitar direct through an Avalon 737 into my MX 2424 at 24 bit 48k. Just A/B'ing the two tracks... there was a noticeable difference in the bottom end. Not as much difference in the top end... but there was a clear difference.

Anyway... I'll keep looking.

Sean Meredith-Jones
http://www.seanmeredithjones.com


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2009)

seanmj said:


> I have to laugh at the wireless idea guys. Exactly how are you going to connect your guitar to the transmitter? Exactly how are you going to connect your receiver to the amp? I realize you're joking... but still...


 It's an endless nightmare of CABLES! Gah!

Seriously though: keep 'em short. That's the key. And wireless lets you do that. A few inches on the belt pack. A few inches on the receiver. Done. If you've got pedals I recommend buffering things anyways. That'll fix most, if not all, cable issues.



> Those pesky cables... you just can't get away from them.


They haunt me day and night.


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> I laugh at the wireless idea to. 2 of the guys in my band (lead singer and bass player) are wireless and are always experiencing trouble. One night one of the little proprietary wires that connects to the transmitter on his belt, died. Not much he could do as he didn't have another one. These guys have to rely on plain old guitar cable almost as much as me.
> I like a very basic technology and to me wirless adds another layer of complexity. Without wireless its one less thing that can go wrong. With my cables I have a ton of back ups and it only takes a second or 2 to swap out a bad cable.


That sounds like user error. Always carry a backup. Wireless or no wireless. Right?


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2009)

seanmj said:


> The Rapco is a much bigger cable than the uber skinny GL cables I have... which does account for some of the difference in bottom end.


Err...not really. Your signal travels through wires much smaller than either of those cables on the way to being amplified and doesn't suffer any low end loss. Your iPod should sound ultra-thin if this was the case.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

I use transparent cables so I can see the notes going to the amp. B # gives off an amazing glow.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> I use transparent cables so I can see the notes going to the amp. B # gives off an amazing glow.



Cool. Unfortunately my cables filter out alot of the B# tones.


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## PEImatrix (Jan 27, 2007)

That's becaus you never play in the key of C#.

The 7th degree of the scale in C# major is B#.


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## seanmj (May 9, 2009)

iaresee said:


> Err...not really. Your signal travels through wires much smaller than either of those cables on the way to being amplified and doesn't suffer any low end loss. Your iPod should sound ultra-thin if this was the case.


Me thinks there's more to it than this. I've posed this question on the prosoundweb. Some incredibly knowledgeable industry pros lurk there. I'm curious to hear some of the science behind these cable gremlins.:smile:

Here's the post if you want to follow it:
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/450668/8274/#msg_450668

Sean Meredith-Jones
http://www.seanmeredithjones.com


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2009)

I said I wasn't going to talk cables any more. Mouth zipped.


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## seanmj (May 9, 2009)

iaresee said:


> I said I wasn't going to talk cables any more. Mouth zipped.


Riiiiiight.

Sean Meredith-Jones
http://www.seanmeredithjones.com


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## shane (Oct 13, 2009)

Whats everyones opinion on Planet Waves?
They've been good to me for the past couple years.
Great quality, lifetime warranty.

I'm going to need to outfit my pedalboard soon and am looking at the Lava Mini ELC kit, good call?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

shane said:


> Whats everyones opinion on Planet Waves?
> They've been good to me for the past couple years.
> Great quality, lifetime warranty.
> 
> I'm going to need to outfit my pedalboard soon and am looking at the Lava Mini ELC kit, good call?


Planet Waves are excellent cables. I have kept all mine to back up my Evidence Audio cable which has proven a bit unreliable.
I have cabled my board with Evidence Audio Melody cable. Maybe a bit overkill. I'll bet the Lava cable will be very good.


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## Spikezone (Feb 2, 2006)

seanmj said:


> The George L's are annoying to no end. They are constantly getting tangled/coiled up. I got them when I started to run more pedals in my rig.


Agreed...the only thing they really are good for is wiring up a pedalboard, but the prices of enough ends to do that is prohibitive. I was excited to get my first GL's, but when you move around (if you turn in circles like I somehow tend to do), they twist up into annoying coils. I decided to ditch them as guitar cables and use them to wire my pedalboard, but like I said, it was going to cost a fortune for the parts I needed, so I just bought a $10 bag of those colour-coded molded patch cords, and they work just fine. As for guitar cables, I went back to my home-made Belden/Switchcraft cables that I made DECADES ago and am quite happy with them, as I always was (don't really know why I tried to switch in the first place!)!
-Mikey


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## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


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## zurn (Oct 21, 2009)

I like the Bullet Cable coiled wires, they never get tangled and they look cool 

http://www.coreoneproduct.com/pages/cableweb/bullet_coil.html


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

I use Canare GS-6 cables. I have a bunch of them in different lenghts and configurations (straigth plugs / right-angle plugs). The company Digiflex, out of Montreal, sells them in many stores as part of their Studioflex line (blue packaging). Excellent cable for a reasonable price. They don't make patch cables however, so I bought some custom-made by Lava Cable. Personally, I do not trust solderless cables like the George L's at all.


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## Andy (Sep 23, 2007)

I almost swapped the speakers in my Traynor YCS90 because of cables, actually. The amp is extremely sensitive to changes in guitars, pedals, and yes, even cable. I was using a coiled cable, which sounded fantastic with my YCV15, but created an annoying mid spike and took all the sparkle out of the 90, which I initially thought was a speaker issue. After I switched to a Planet Waves Circuit Breaker (which isn't high end by any means), it opened up the top end and relaxed the mids.


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

I use the high end Vox cables (not the coiled vintage ones) for guitar and my son uses the bass voiced Vox for his application. Don't know how transparent they actually are, but they're the best sounding cables we've had in our studio period. In all fairness, I haven't tried all the other high-end stuff offered by Mogami, Monster, Lava, etc that's available today. It's kinda hard to find higher end cable here on the flatlands as most Mom & Pop music shops feature the lower end stuff. I had to special order the Vox cables in thru Korg/Vox in Montreal as Cdn distributor network was dry.


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

that is allways an interesting term when used to discribe cables... of the ones I've tried... Monster Cables Studio Pro 1000, Mogami Platinum, Evidence Melody.

I'm planning a cable shoot out in the next few weeks... I hope to have around ten cables to compare with same guitar, amp, and mic settings. the idea is to document and share the variances in cable performance and to give them ratings on build quality and overal design.
It will be self funded unless some companies pony up... doubt it... my studio needs more cables anyways... yeah right... LOL


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

Guitar Cable Face Off.

Find it on Facebook.

I have over ten cables which i hope will end up being over 20... thrift to hi fi.


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## Nork (Mar 27, 2010)

i have to admit (and this is my first post here, so hi!) that i really like planet waves. if anything for the lifetime warrantee. and they sound fine to me. what do the "pro's" use?


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

Hi Nork and welcome aboard. 
The pro's use so many different products. 
Her are two good examples.
I did read that The Black Crowes guitaist I belive it's Rich Robinson uses and loves budget cables I believe he said the ones at Walmart in the interview I read. Then there are guys like Steve Vai who have high end signature cables with some sort of unique component(s) which they had direct involvment in the design... in this case Vai uses a Dimarzio product.


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## -mbro- (Apr 3, 2010)

George l's are a nightmare for anything but patching a pedalboard even then hey take time and care to work with. Ive been using canare cables and find them to be a good reasonably priced cable that sounds good and is dependable. I love my wireless though.


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## seanmj (May 9, 2009)

Resurrecting an old thread. My pedalboard has grown exponentially over the past while. I've been using George L's to connect all the pedals... all 6 inch lenghths w/right angle connectors. A) I'm tired of tracking down cable shorts. B) I have tried/heard some other cables recently that were night and day better than the George L's... at least with my guitar.

That said, the cable I've been looking at is the Lava Cable 'Soar'. To completely redo my rig... it will be in the neighbourhood of $700. 

From what I have read, the cable right out of the guitar is the one that is most influenced by the cable... and even the cable from the last pedal to the amp. The pedal connectors however, I have been told that there really wouldn't be any noticable difference in cable brands. I also was wondering about cables that run from the pedals to the fx loop of the amp (I use the fx loop for delays/reverbs/trem)... but was told because these are line level signals... any cable will do.

Wondering if anyone else has any thoughts on this.

Sean Meredith-Jones
Welcome to SeanMeredithJones.com


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## keefsdad (Feb 7, 2006)

Spikezone said:


> Agreed...the only thing they really are good for is wiring up a pedalboard, but the prices of enough ends to do that is prohibitive. I was excited to get my first GL's, but when you move around (if you turn in circles like I somehow tend to do), they twist up into annoying coils. I decided to ditch them as guitar cables and use them to wire my pedalboard, but like I said, it was going to cost a fortune for the parts I needed, so I just bought a $10 bag of those colour-coded molded patch cords, and they work just fine. As for guitar cables, I went back to my home-made Belden/Switchcraft cables that I made DECADES ago and am quite happy with them, as I always was (don't really know why I tried to switch in the first place!)!
> -Mikey


 I use mostly cables from the eighties, when I bought a roll of belden cable and switchcraft plugs and put a few together. I also have couple of whirlwinds. I basically think if you don't use the cheapest crap you can find, you are better off practicing than worrying about the nuances in your cables. But that's just me.


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## seanmj (May 9, 2009)

keefsdad said:


> I use mostly cables from the eighties, when I bought a roll of belden cable and switchcraft plugs and put a few together. I also have couple of whirlwinds. I basically think if you don't use the cheapest crap you can find, you are better off practicing than worrying about the nuances in your cables. But that's just me.


For me, it's essential that I recable my rig. I've had too many shorts the past little while... from George L's and even my Road Hogs. The differences I've heard in cables is pretty astounding really. At this point, I'm trying to arrange a demo of a few cables: Van Den Hul integration, Evidence Audio Lyric, Lava Soar, Analysis, Sommer GCB... and I'll put them up against my George L's and good ol' Road Hogs.

Sean Meredith-Jones
Welcome to SeanMeredithJones.com


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## Les~Paul (Nov 29, 2010)

The best choice's is Evidence, Klotz or you can make some on your own (DIY). You can make a DIY with the Lava cabels kit.


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## seanmj (May 9, 2009)

A few weeks ago... one of my roadhog cables went down... so I was forced to replace at least my pedalboard to amp cable... but figured I'd replace my guitar to pedalboard cable too. I demoed 4 cables: Analysis Black Oval, Lava Soar, Evidence Audio Lyric, Evidence Audio Forte. The First two were eliminated pretty quickly... and it was down to the Forte vs the Lyric. For my setup.... the Forte was the best choice. Really smoothed out the highs on my strat and added a bit more low end punch...again... that's just what worked better with my rig. The fact that the Forte lays better than the Lyric was a benefit... but not a factor in my choice of cable.

I still have to take the plunge and redo my pedalboard cabling. I've been really impressed with the EA stuff... so I'll probably go with EA monorail when I get around to it.

Sean Meredith-Jones
www.seanmeredithjones.com


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I've used wireless since the 80's.

Back them they sucked. Now they work great and sound just fine. 

I've never had much trouble with them.

As for cables, I tend to make mine with Neutrik ends and Belden cable.

You have to EQ no matter what you use so my main concern is that they're not noisy and are reliable.


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