# Would a mic preamp help?



## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

Hi,

I've got a Tascam DP01 digital portastudio and I'm coming across a weird problem. When trying to mic a guitar cab, I'm finding that I have to have the volume level incredibly high for sound to be picked up by the portastudio. I am talking about club-level volume here! If I lower the volume of the amp but increase the input control on the portastudio, the signal begins to distort. Currently, I've got the cab mic'd with an Electrovoice ND 757B (which is a decent quality mic) and it is placed literally 1 inch from the grill. This is hooked up directly to the Tascam via 1/4" jack (this Tascam does not have XLR inputs). So, my question is, how can I increase the level of the signal without cranking the volume of the amp? Would a mic preamp such as the PreSonus help?


----------



## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

hmmm yes it will help, but as a byproduct, it's not what a mic preamp does, really... what's going on is that you have an impedance mismatch. the microphone puts out a lowZ signal, and the tascam is looking for a highZ signal. other things you can do to address this problem are: buy a lowZ to highZ adaptor (most music stores, and any PA store should have these in stock), or you can get a little 1 mic channel mixer (like the behringer UB series, or the alto or phonic branded stuff) for about $65, and put that between (this is the better solution, because as you get deeper into recording, you're going to want phantom powered condensor mics to record with, and the little mixer will provide that for you).


----------



## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

paul's question above is also a good one, if the tascam will accept a lowZ signal (the manual should talk about this)...


----------



## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

Thanks for the info! Any idea what those adapters cost? The reason I brought up the Presonus TubePre is because I have access to a new one for about $100. If the adapter is going to cost the same, wouldn't I be better off with the preamp? It would also supply phantom power, and I believe it is tube driven.


----------



## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

the adaptor will be in the $15 range, a small mixer will give you phantom power and some more routing options for $65-$110. the presonus for $100 is a good deal, and will certainly sound very nice. i would probably go that route in your shoes...


----------



## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

Using my ultra-keen intuitive skills, I'm sensing that what you're telling me is that I need a XLR -> TRS cord lofu

So, what would be the difference between using one of those vs. the adapter?


----------



## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

You are correct my friend, I am using a cord that has XLR on the mic end, and Tip/Sleeve on the DP01 end.

So, that being said, are there any advantages of using one solution over the other (i.e. adapter vs. the cord you mentioned)? I am under the impression that the cost of each is about the same.


----------



## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

The greatest issue with the DP01 is the amount of gain available at the 1/4" inputs. According to the manual it has a maximum gain of +6dBV and is unbalanced. Regardless of what it says in the manual that is not suitable for a microphone input.

A standard unbalanced mic (say the SM57 or SM58) will require between 40~60dB of gain to work properly. There simply isn't enough gain available on your unit.

The solution? Buy a simple mic preamp. An ART MP will do, and it is available for cheap. It also has both XLR and unbalanced 1/4" outputs so you will not need any cable adapters. Mic into ART MP via XLR and out via 1/4" to DP01.

Just to be clear, none of the cable adapters or impedance match products suggested in other posts will allow a microphone to work on your unit.


----------



## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

jroberts said:


> Are you sure about that? +6dbV would be a nominal operating level, not a measure of gain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for pointing out my typo error on the mic type, of course those mics have a balanced output.


Some of the confusion surrounding the suggestions offered may stem from the fact that the model DP01 has a big brother, the DP01FX (with xlr mic inputs), and the same owners manual is used for both. I assumed the OP owns the DP01 model.


----------



## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

Your assumption is correct - I have the original DP01.

Quite frankly, I'm a bit confused now. One person suggests XLR-T/R/S cable, another suggestes the preamp.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

SO, you need to go from a low impedance mic to a high impedance input and when you do there's not enough gain?


Preamp.

It might be redundant but it will work, unless there's something wrong with the mic. Have you tried a different mic? They do fail and sometimes not completely. I have an AKG that suddenly lost gain and sounded a bit nasal. Sometimes the obvious is ovelooked.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Sorry, but I've got to think that there's something wrong with the mic/cable.

I know very little about this stuff but I have used both a Beta 58 (with a T/S converter and with the TRS converter that came with my BR600) as well as an ancient Realistic condenser with my BR600 and they have both worked fine for my purposes. I've done the same things time-and-again with my old Fostex 4-track as well.

The built-in preamp may not be the best in the world but it should still be able to do it's job. The only time mine has sounded like crap is if I've unplugged the guitar from the direct and then switched to a mic without changing the units parameters from "Guitar" to "Mic" - then it sounds like I'm singing into a tin can at the bottom of a metal culvert. Perhaps you've got some internal settings wrong (Set for a guitar or line input rather than a mic?).

Anyway, I'd be eliminating the fundamentals first - these units are built to be pretty much stand-alone and produce decent-if-not-studio-quality recordings without a lot of fuss.

My 3 cents.


----------



## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

Ok, let me clarify a few things:

1.) The sound is not crap - it's just that the volume is too low.
2.) The mic and cable seem ok - they worked fine on my Tascam 424
3.) I can increase the volume by increasing the preamp volume on the DP01, but this introduces distortion.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure I'm any further ahead than I was a few days ago


----------



## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

vds5000 said:


> Ok, let me clarify a few things:
> 
> 1.) The sound is not crap - it's just that the volume is too low.
> 2.) The mic and cable seem ok - they worked fine on my Tascam 424
> ...


I can certainly understand your frustration. The owner's manual is very confusing and does not include a complete list of specs.

I had another read through the manual and by "reading between the lines" it seems pretty certain to me that the DP01 is not designed to accept direct microphone input. The impedance selections are typical for a line level source and an electric guitar input.

If it were me I would take the unit to my local music store and ask to demo one of there mic pres. That will put the issue to rest.


----------



## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

Ok, I was in TO last week, so I dropped in Steves Music. The guy in the recording area seemed pretty confident that I need an adaptor. So, I'll try that first. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.


----------



## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

*Update*

Alrighty, I forgot all about this thread but for anyone interested, I managed to find a solution to my original issue - I am now using a Audio-Technica CP8201 In-Line Transformer between the mic and the DP01. It seems to have solved the issue.

Thanks to all that helped!


----------

