# Concerned member



## murraythek (Jun 1, 2013)

Let me start off by saying I absolutely love this forum and have met some great people and taken part in some great trades, sales and acquisitions.
With that said I need to voice a concern about an encounter I had with a so called trusted member of this community. I'm not looking to point fingers directly, so this member shall remain nameless.

I was considering a trade - guitar for guitar - and made my offer on what I figured would be fair and current market value and considering what I was giving up and getting in return. There was some confusion around the specific model of my guitar, so I offered my s/n to help with identification. The other party, who unbeknownst to me happens to work for a music store chain, used this s/n to pull my account and sales information. This information was then used against me to leverage the trade as my guitar was purchased at a sale price at THAT time. 

Needless to say I declined the counter offer and quickly realized this sort of tactic is nothing short of a violation of privacy. Had I been told upfront that this check would've taken place I might have obliged.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

interesting story.
since youre keeping this anonymous, what would you like to be done?
My response to the potential buyer is simply that I am pricing the guitar at current market value. if he can find another one at that sale price from back then, he should buy it.


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## JCM50 (Oct 5, 2011)

That shows a lack of integrity on the other person's part IMO.


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## Guest (Feb 26, 2015)

It's likely a huge violation of store rules to look up customer history like this to obtain information not related to store business. I can't see any store looking fondly on this kind of behaviour. It's especially egregious if the account information contains personally identifiable information (name, address, phone number, credit card information, etc.) as that data has very strict rules around who can access it and for what purposes when you're involved in running and using a system that stores it. It could blow back on the store in a bad way.

Did you contact the store?

Related: had a friend who's wife is a paralegal and had access to some database at her work that shows details about mortgages on homes in, at least, Ontario. She was looking up properties owned by friend's to see who had help from mommy and daddy with down payments and what not. Benign, possibly, but she also liked to talk about it at dinner parties. Someone at the office noticed. She was lucky she got off with just being fired.

If I was that music store employee I'd be worried. Just because you can doesn't mean you _should_.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Not cool. I'm sure it's a violation of store policy.

On the other hand, I can see him looking it up for his own information and decision making process but to use it as leverage against you...shitty person tactic IMO. You either want to pay the sellers asking price or you offer what you are willing to pay. That's about it. Who cares what the seller paid for it. It's irrelevant. It's like trying to buy someone's house, and arguing that your lowball offer is fair because the seller bought their house when the market was down and they paid less than market value for it at that time. Huh???? Who cares?


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

If one of my employees did this they would be terminated. Unacceptable.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

zdogma said:


> If one of my employees did this they would be terminated. Unacceptable.


Agree 100%.

Accessing data in company computer systems for personal use is immoral and unethical if not criminal.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I bet it was sulpher.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm not sure if I would fire him, although I might. He would definitely be given a written warning and a very pointed lecture. 

If I was the OP, I would warn him that if he ever heard of him doing again, his company would be notified.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Yup instant firing if chain management comes to hear the story. Violation of privacy rules, and probably laws - not that I could see a prosecutor taking it so far as to get to court.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

https://www.priv.gc.ca/leg_c/leg_c_p_e.asp


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## murraythek (Jun 1, 2013)

I work for a large Canadian bank so I understand consumer privacy is paramount and trust is EVERYTHING. Maybe he thought it was no big deal, but I dont know him and certainly wasnt told upfront about his method of information gathering.

Not sure which direction I want to take at this point, but I really wanted to bring awareness to the community with the matter. I might not be the first but hopefully I'll be the last.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I'm not really sure how I would protect myself. I would probably just do what you did - less posting it here.

I don't disagree with you posting here, but I just don't know how it would help. You didn't t know it happened until it was too late.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I got my Martin HD28V from L&M at a pretty good discount. They had it listed as an HD28 and I expressed interest in buying it at the advertised price. They realized it was mis priced but honored that price. Saved about $600. If I were ever to sell it the discount would definitely not be a considered in the selling price. And if I were to sell it to an L&M employee I suppose they'd be able to look it up and see what I paid. 
This is one reason that I'd never trade it in to L&M (not that I'd trade in anyway) as they have that information in the computer and would definitely consider the discounted price for trade value.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

that is a pretty selfish & dirtbag move IMO


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I'm not sure why what you paid originally has anything to do with the current transaction. I mean does it matter what an LP cost in 59'? At then end of the day, the other guy doesn't agree with you about a value ...... so what? It happens all the time. Every day I see guys trying to sell stuff on Kijiji for more than it sells in the store for. You do your research and decide. Maybe it's not fair that he has the advantage of looking things up, perhaps - but you gave him the serial number because you yourself were unsure of what you were selling. Anyway, the whole thing sounds odd and I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by sharing your story with us. 

The the world is full of sellers that want too much and buyers who want to pay too little. It's never wrong to be armed and it's never wrong to not agree.


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

Who done it?








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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1) Purchase price is not the same as "value". That's why Pentium 400s with 17" CRT monitors go for $10 in garage sales. And if a person traded in an amp and got $500 knocked off the price of a guitar, does that mean the guitar is "worth" $500 less? I think not.

2) I think some folks confuse "privileged" information with pretty much any comparator information. Looking up the asking price for a particular item in every Kijiji/Craigslist locale, and 100 e-bay sales is not the same as digging for privileged confidential information.


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2015)

So Murray, what do you have to trade?


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

a) dick move to look up the information
b) really dumb move letting you know about it


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## murraythek (Jun 1, 2013)

laristotle said:


> So Murray, what do you have to trade?


Nothing now.


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

Pretty sure I know who this is....let's see if they chime in on this thread. Accessing the information contained within including personal and possibly financial info for personal gain is a pretty serious offense.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

I would be tempted to walk into where he worked and ask him 'what the hell he thought he was doing'.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

allthumbs56 said:


> I'm not sure why what you paid originally has anything to do with the current transaction. I mean does it matter what an LP cost in 59'? At then end of the day, the other guy doesn't agree with you about a value ...... so what? It happens all the time. Every day I see guys trying to sell stuff on Kijiji for more than it sells in the store for. You do your research and decide. Maybe it's not fair that he has the advantage of looking things up, perhaps - but you gave him the serial number because you yourself were unsure of what you were selling. Anyway, the whole thing sounds odd and I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by sharing your story with us.
> 
> The the world is full of sellers that want too much and buyers who want to pay too little. It's never wrong to be armed and it's never wrong to not agree.


I would agree with this assessment. I have flipped a ton of gear that I picked up in pawn shops. I certainly never told the shop keeper that he had a guitar worth $800 listed for $200. Do your homework or lose. Conversely when I went to sell it I got the highest price I could get for it. I find nothing wrong or odd about that. People cannot expect to profit from your good fortune. So in the end who cares if he seen the sell price. Either buy it or don't. Next man up


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

adcandour said:


> I bet it was sulpher.


Where do you think your J5 is from? 8)


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Personally, I would feel incredibly violated. Honestly, there would be no "if he does it again", I would immediately inform his employer. It's highly doubtful he hasn't done it before. I have no issue with someone trying to get max value for a sale or trade. However, YOUR personal information in a business database is NOT there for employees' personal use.

A further note for those asking why he posted this thread...to get feedback. The same reason anyone posts a thread. At least he had the courtesy to not name names and resort to personal attacks and insults. Unlike another recent un-named thread.


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## Option1 (May 26, 2012)

Stratin2traynor said:


> Not cool. I'm sure it's a violation of store policy.
> 
> On the other hand, I can see him looking it up for his own information and decision making process ...


Under no circumstances would I find that acceptable either.

As for the OP, it really is something that should be reported to the store. Employees are given access to the information on trust that the access will not be misused. That employee has violated that trust.

Neil


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Yup, call work and let them know.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

this thread has no point whatsoever. just like the countless similar threads where people talk of someone pulling a dick move, and then they don't name who who it is. as a warning, it's rather shit, isn't it? if someone pulled some bullshit on me, and i felt the others needed to be warned of it, you can be dam sure i'm posting their name and the exact details of what happened.


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## Voxguy76 (Aug 23, 2006)

cheezyridr said:


> this thread has no point whatsoever. just like the countless similar threads where people talk of someone pulling a dick move, and then they don't name who who it is. as a warning, it's rather shit, isn't it? if someone pulled some bullshit on me, and i felt the others needed to be warned of it, you can be dam sure i'm posting their name and the exact details of what happened.



I think the OP was perhaps looking for some insight/opinions on the situation. I believe he was quite respectful in soliciting for opinions prior to the usual name calling and finger pointing that it usually starts with.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Voxguy76 said:


> I think the OP was perhaps looking for some insight/opinions on the situation. I believe he was quite respectful in soliciting for opinions prior to the usual name calling and finger pointing that it usually starts with.


Not sure.i agree. What insight could we give that will help his situation? What opinions? 

I don't care about who it is, because I'm a big boy who would just call him an asshole and leave it at that (or maybe I'm a child). I don't really care if he knows how much I spent at l&m. I don't agree with it, but to get my vag all in a bunch over it isn't gonna help nothing. 

I wouldn't rat him out either. This stuff just doesn't matter. 

This thread doesn't protect us, it just gives us something to talk about.


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## murraythek (Jun 1, 2013)

The incident has been reported and I consider the issue a closed case at this point.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

murraythek said:


> The incident has been reported and I consider the issue a closed case at this point.


'And that's the way the cookie crumbles" - bruce almighty


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## Disbeat (Jul 30, 2011)

I seem to recall a caveat emptor thread or something along those lines here when I first joined?
Thats where people's names that pull this kinda stuff belong. Gives people the proper heads up. Just my opinion though.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

this issue has been resolved, but this thread is likely far from over.

Every one has a different value system. The guy may not have thought he was in the wrong. He probably skims through that kind of information every day (devaluing the sense of it being 'privileged'). Like he truly gives a shit about how much people spend there or what they paid for shit.

Using it to his advantage to barter is pretty pathetic, but potentially getting him fired? And no one is better for it...no one. Who benefitted from this? You may feel better. 

I just don't get it.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

adcandour said:


> Every one has a different value system. _*The guy may not have thought he was in the wrong. He probably skims through that kind of information every day (devaluing the sense of it being 'privileged').*_
> 
> Using it to his advantage to barter is pretty pathetic,_* but potentially getting him fired? *_And no one is better for it...no one. Who benefitted from this? You may feel better.
> 
> I just don't get it.


Perhaps he has a family to support. While what he did was wrong but the punishment should be just, not unjust. Some things to think about that we can't answer.

Was this the first time?
Is he young and inexperienced, lacking wisdom and discernment?
Was he under pressure because of his finances?
Can there be mercy extended?
If we had made this mistake and it was explained to us why this was a serious mistake, how would we want to be treated?


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

I worked for many years in the secure areas of various banking and financial institutions throughout the US and Canada. If I were to use ANY information garnered during my time there, I would be summarily fired on the spot. It is not only theft from my employer, but theft from the customers whose personal information I accessed. Hell, if I was a dishonest man, I could be rich right now.

As Steadly pointed out, this incidence of theft should be taken in context. The employee obviously didn't realize that what he did was an enormous breach of trust, at least in principle.

If I was his employer, I would make sure he understood the gravity of his actions and put him back on the floor with the experience of his mistake. As long as I was convinced he would never do anything like that again, I would probably put more trust in him than someone else who has never had the benefit of that experience.

But, of course, that is all hypothetical if his employer is unaware of his actions and he continues to not understand that a sacred employer/employee relationship has been breached by his actions.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I think it may be getting blown out of proportion. This isn't wikileaks.
My hunch is, if you brought your guitar into that same store, the first thing they would likely do is tell you they're going to run a serial number check. Most ppl would nod their heads, perhaps unsure of how much info that might produce, but recognizing that its standard operating procedure. 
So IMO, his biggest faux pas, was in using company property/resources for his own personal purposes, something that his employer may or not be overly concerned with. in todays workplace, to some extent, everyone does it. If youre at work and reading this post right now from your computer, youre guilty of it too.

it mostly looks bad because a basic ser # search resulted in a windfall of information, and he shouldn't have tried to use that privileged and irrelevant info to secure himself a better price. if someone gets a hot deal on an item, theyre under no obligation to pass those savings on in perpetuity.

Since the buyer is kept anonymous, the only "lesson" in this story, is that you should guard your information, as even the littlest bit of it, could provide someone with more info about you than youd expect.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

If I was given gold, it isn't $0 value. All things have a market value (or range of). I consider it a lowball tactic...and just plain low as well.

Integrity, ethics and morals are easy to talk about - you can see it or hear it every day. It is the carrying out of one's daily actions governed by those things that is difficult - that is what you don't see every day.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy."


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

we are all quick to let everyone know when we have a good transaction. i don't understand why being open about a negative one is so frowned upon. i never woulda knowed about that smith falls guy if people hadn't warned of him on here. i may have dodged a bullet or 2 because of that knowledge


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## murraythek (Jun 1, 2013)

The other party reached out to me yesterday and explained his side and was genuinely apologetic about my concern. Im going to move on from this and consider it an isolated issue. Thanks to all who chimed in.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

cheezyridr said:


> we are all quick to let everyone know when we have a good transaction. i don't understand why being open about a negative one is so frowned upon. i never woulda knowed about that smith falls guy if people hadn't warned of him on here. i may have dodged a bullet or 2 because of that knowledge


I don't think they are. I think we all just like to hear both sides or at least be able to use the situation to help us. This didn't do much, but I've already made my point and don't want to beat.

I'm also probably a bit more forgiving. If I were to post a complaint, it's gonna be pretty bad. Ex: Don't deal with cheezyridr. He tried to pay me with photos of my naked mom. When I stopped dry heaving, he tried to explain it was consensual - even worse. When I told him this was unacceptable and that I'm telling other forum members, he punched me in the nuts and ran away with the photos and a shitty strat.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

*mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... Adcandour's mom..............*


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

bluzfish said:


> *mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... Adcandour's mom..............*
> 
> View attachment 12557



hahaha - gross.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

adcandour said:


> I He tried to pay me with photos of my naked mom.


:useless:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

guitarman2 said:


> :useless:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


This are the only ones he dropped:


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

So the "guy in question" probably got a healthy discount on his guitar too .................... did that come up?


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## Option1 (May 26, 2012)

adcandour said:


> This are the only ones he dropped:
> 
> View attachment 12561


Your mom ... Nair. Just a suggestion.

Neil


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

I'm not really sure why everyone is getting their panties all in a knot over this. There is nothing personal about the sale price of a guitar or any other retail item for that mater. When I have access to the serial number of a piece of gear I have called L&M on several occasions to check two things. First being what it sold for new/used (just because if I wanna sell/trade to them that is what the value is based on) and secondly weather or not it has been stolen or there is still money owing on the instrument. You can call any L&M in the country and they will tell you the history of a guitar they have sold. I have don't it in 4 provinces now!!! I got caught in the middle of a cluster fack once when I took a guitar on trade from a guy that hadn't payed his bills at L&M and refuse to have it happen to me again. I am pretty sure that %99 of the people on here have been ripped off or screwed in a deal in one way or another at some point, I'm not really sure how starting a thread to complain about it helps. If you don't like the deal....don't make it and if you have a bad feeling about the deal but do it anyway then that's a life lesson learned the hard way. Carry on and don't make the same mistake again!


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## JCM50 (Oct 5, 2011)

Chitmo said:


> I have called L&M on several occasions to check two things. First being what it sold for new/used (just because if I wanna sell/trade to them that is what the value is based on)


I think that this thought process is flawed. What's important in the current market price, not what the person paid for it. 
In terms of it being stolen, L&M won't know and whether there is money owning on the instrument is irrelevant because there wouldn't be a lean on the guitar itself. 

I'm surprised that L&M would give that kind of info out to anyone that asks.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

JCM50 said:


> I think that this thought process is flawed. What's important in the current market price, not what the person paid for it.
> In terms of it being stolen, L&M won't know and whether there is money owning on the instrument is irrelevant because there wouldn't be a lean on the guitar itself.
> 
> I'm surprised that L&M would give that kind of info out to anyone that asks.


It's not a flawed thought if my intention was just to to trade the item in at L&M. Sometimes there are items that they just won't take, so why not trade it for something that they will take? You telling me that you have never had a "trade triangle" before? I like to be as informed as I can before making any deals. And the next time you decide to quote me I would kindly ask that you quote the entire statement so that people do not take what I said out of context! 

Have a Nice day!


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Chitmo said:


> I'm not really sure why everyone is getting their panties all in a knot over this. There is nothing personal about the sale price of a guitar or any other retail item for that mater. When I have access to the serial number of a piece of gear I have called L&M on several occasions to check two things. *(((1)))*First being what it sold for new/used (just because if I wanna sell/trade to them that is what the value is based on) and *(((2)))*secondly weather or not it has been stolen or there is still money owing on the instrument.........................


(((1))) above is what's going to get them in trouble, if anything does. It's a flagrant violation of privacy laws. Imagine if I phoned every retailer someone ever dealt with and asked what they paid for their items, hell even if it's for no reason at all, or somehow for more evil & devious purposes - I'm gathering info to see what your home's contents are worth, to see if that burglary/home invasion might pay off. *you* might not care, but all it takes is one and you have a solid gold plated case for invasion of privacy.

In other words, damned right it is personal information.

THAT'S what the point of this all is.

(((2))), looking to see if they have a lien, or have it flagged in their system as stolen, is perfectly fine. But if there is a lien, they can't discuss balance owing or terms or delinquency if any. Finance, that's my area of expertise and I am wellllll trained on this privacy stuff. The rules are getting tighter and tighter on what we can discuss and with whom....now we can't even leave a message on a known good phone with any account details that might be overheard by a third party (on speaker, wife checks messages for you, several other variations on that theme are possible).


Whoops, just read your most recent reply, and so I apologize for not quoting your entire post. I put in the '.............' to indicate there was more to it than what I quoted, which I did for brevity's sake.


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## JCM50 (Oct 5, 2011)

Chitmo said:


> It's not a flawed thought if my intention was just to to trade the item in at L&M. Sometimes there are items that they just won't take, so why not trade it for something that they will take? You telling me that you have never had a "trade triangle" before? I like to be as informed as I can before making any deals.


Why would you buy something just to trade it in at L&M? Its still flawed in my opinion. Any store will give you market value minus their cut.

Trade Triangle? Seems like a lot of effort for little gain. I don't know. Some people love to wheel and deal stuff - to each their own. To me, market value is what it is. Past value doesn't mean much.

- - - Updated - - -



keto said:


> (((2))), looking to see if they have a lien, or have it flagged in their system as stolen, is perfectly fine. But if there is a lien, they can't discuss balance owing or terms or delinquency if any. Finance, that's my area of expertise and I am wellllll trained on this privacy stuff. The rules are getting tighter and tighter on what we can discuss and with whom....now we can't even leave a message on a known good phone with any account details that might be overheard by a third party (on speaker, wife checks messages for you, several other variations on that theme are possible)


Totally agree and would like to add that stolen items and their serial numbers can had had at the police station, not some store. In terms of liens, we're not buying cars or houses here. Items like Guitars don't have liens on them because they are not registered provincially or federally.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

JCM50 said:


> Why would you buy something just to trade it in at L&M? Its still flawed in my opinion. Any store will give you market value minus their cut.
> 
> Trade Triangle? Seems like a lot of effort for little gain. I don't know. Some people love to wheel and deal stuff - to each their own. To me, market value is what it is. Past value doesn't mean much.
> 
> ...


People do dumb shit all the time. So if some alcoholic wants to sell a brand new tele for $400 to get his drunk on for the weekend, I'll buy that just to flip it and make some money. And there is also the situation where you are selling an expensive piece of gear. Not sure about where you live but in Halifax nobody has cash for some reason and more often than not I am taking partial trades on gear. Then that leaves me having to sell again. You don't get ahead in this world by working 9-5 and throwing %10 of your take home in a savings account so making a little cash here and there on my gear or at least breaking even on things is how I support my hobby. So forgive me if I wanna make sure that the guitar is legit before I buy it and further more If I can't sell it privately I can at least get my money back using it as trade fodder at L&M to buy something that I really want.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

JCM50 said:


> ...................Totally agree and would like to add that stolen items and their serial numbers can had had at the police station, not some store. In terms of liens, we're not buying cars or houses here. Items like Guitars don't have liens on them because they are not registered provincially or federally.


Agreed, L&M doesn't register liens - they could if they wanted to, but they can't do it after the fact as, in most provinces, you have 15 days from the date of the contract to register PPSA (lien). But their contract is still enforceable - if the guitar happens to come into their shop and the contract is in default, they could (see following clarification) still take it. You could fight them over it with a lawyer, as it's grey....the judge would have to make a decision and it could legitimately go either way, but the strength of them having a contract over the specific item would likely rule the day...that's an opinion, not a fact obviously.

So, Chitmo, if you "got caught in the middle of a cluster fack once when I took a guitar on trade from a guy that hadn't payed his bills at L&M", you had a leg to stand on (again, in my opinion not much of one, but hey - talk to a lawyer) if you got screwed. Again, nothing wrong with L&M telling you they have a contract over an item, but a) no way can they tell you who or what the status of the account is b) they don't have a lien, as noted, just a contract. That being the case, their recourse is to sue the party in default, or send it to a collection agency, NOT repo the instrument. Can't, no lien. But maybe. It's grey, as I said above. But once again, if they told you it was 'the guy' and that *he* hadn't paid his bill, they screwed up big time in relation to privacy laws.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

keto said:


> (((1))) above is what's going to get them in trouble, if anything does. It's a flagrant violation of privacy laws. Imagine if I phoned every retailer someone ever dealt with and asked what they paid for their items, hell even if it's for no reason at all, or somehow for more evil & devious purposes - I'm gathering info to see what your home's contents are worth, to see if that burglary/home invasion might pay off. *you* might not care, but all it takes is one and you have a solid gold plated case for invasion of privacy.
> 
> In other words, damned right it is personal information.
> 
> ...


I'm not getting SIN numbers here, just a price on a retail item. There is nothing private about that, and you're argument is moot, I can buy or sell a pedal to anyone on here and then use that address to find out what they paid for their home, what its assessed value is and how much tax they pay! It's all public information, just check out viewpoint.ca and set up your free account! So if anyone on here was in the business of robbing homes, that information combined with the quality of gear the person that they are watching is selling is a much better indicator of "value of homes contents" than how much they paid for a used strat! If we all start thinking like paranoid conspiracy theorists then pretty soon there aren't gonna be a lot of gear sales going on here and we'll all being using P.O. Boxes two towns over!


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

keto said:


> Agreed, L&M doesn't register liens - they could if they wanted to, but they can't do it after the fact as, in most provinces, you have 15 days from the date of the contract to register PPSA (lien). But their contract is still enforceable - if the guitar happens to come into their shop and the contract is in default, they could (see following clarification) still take it. You could fight them over it with a lawyer, as it's grey....the judge would have to make a decision and it could legitimately go either way, but the strength of them having a contract over the specific item would likely rule the day...that's an opinion, not a fact obviously.
> 
> So, Chitmo, if you "got caught in the middle of a cluster fack once when I took a guitar on trade from a guy that hadn't payed his bills at L&M", you had a leg to stand on (again, in my opinion not much of one, but hey - talk to a lawyer) if you got screwed. Again, nothing wrong with L&M telling you they have a contract over an item, but a) no way can they tell you who or what the status of the account is b) they don't have a lien, as noted, just a contract. That being the case, their recourse is to sue the party in default, or send it to a collection agency, NOT repo the instrument. Can't, no lien. But maybe. It's grey, as I said above. But once again, if they told you it was 'the guy' and that *he* hadn't paid his bill, they screwed up big time in relation to privacy laws.


Funny that you mention legal action, most lawyers will tell you that its not worth the money for such small claims. Mainly because in most cases of this type, the person that you are dealing with is likely broke and even if you win like Grandma says "You can't get blood from a turnip!" And tell me, would you want to bring a guitar in to replace a pot to find out there is still $1500 owing on it? Even if you don't end up having to pay for it just the thought and stress of the situation is enough to make you be more careful in the future!


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

So, just talking technicalities here, but there's nothing-zero-nada-zilch owing on the guitar. The customer owes L&M $$ (which they're not supposed to tell you how much $1500), but it's on a contract which had to do with a guitar, but not on the guitar itself - no lien, remember?

I know, legal action over small monies is unlikely to pay off, nothing new there. You could DIY and small claims it if you want to do the paperwork and running around, including serving the party you are suing. Most people don't, of course.

I still disagree with you on the privacy stuff and legalities but hey whatever works for you. I'm no lawyer though, as I said, I am well trained on this stuff. Anyways, it's not you that's at risk, it's L&M and or their employee(s).


I'll stop replying in this thread now. :smile-new:


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Option1 said:


> Your mom ... Nair. Just a suggestion.
> 
> Neil


To this day I can't drink milk unless I put a hair in it.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

murraythek said:


> The other party reached out to me yesterday and explained his side and was genuinely apologetic about my concern. Im going to move on from this and consider it an isolated issue. Thanks to all who chimed in.


This was the best solution.


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