# should I switch to synthetic motor oil ?



## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

Every oil change I get asked and so far I have said no.
Asking for your views on the PROS and CONS for going synthetic.
thanks
G.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I switched to synthetic long ago for the colder winter starting, it was noticeably easier to get going. I still changed the oil every 5000km, then I got lazy and adopted six thousand km. Eventually I got much lazier and I have it changed at the dealership, still with synthetic, at their recommended intervals of 8000km. The price difference is only 15 dollars between regular and synthetic, seems worth it at this point.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2018)

Yes. Buy Mobile 1 synthetic when it's on sale at Canadian Tire. Then when you go for an oil change, ask the price, then ask how much they take off if you supply your own oil.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Switching to synth on older engines sometimes results in leaks bcs the synthetic oil has been developing an artificial intelligence for some time now and it wants to escape from the daily drudgery of living in the crank case of some crapped out corolla driven by the type of jackasses like you see in Toronto who really should be using the bus or just staying home out of everyone’s way.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Isnt most of the point of synthetic to get 15k km's between changes?


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Many years ago, I once had to make a claim for a problem covered by the warranty : I got to prove I had complied to every service suggested by the company to get the repair covered. So, which oil is recommended for the use you do of your car ?
Since I used to buy my car new and keep them as long as they do serve my needs (from seven to ten years or so), I always complied to the company's car service schedule while the warranty was running. When it dies, I would service twice a year, when I change tires. I carefully wash and wax at the same time ! Twice a year ! I have to say, I do not run much anymore.
But I do put that oil story in the same bag as nitrogen tire filling : maybe, maybe not... Does it really matter ? Who really cares ?


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2018)

mawmow said:


> But I do put that oil story in the same bag as nitrogen tire filling : maybe, maybe not... Does it really matter ? Who really cares ?


Depending on the age/mileage of your engine.
Not recommended for pre - 2008 because of type of seals/gaskets.
Synthetic molecules are smaller than conventional.
If you have any minor leaks, they will be more pronounced with a switch.

A quick google search 
_
As you made the switch from conventional to synthetic, it is recommended to do this progressively. Here are a few tips to consider:_

_For the first oil and filter change, switch from conventional to conventional/synthetic blend. _
_Continue with synthetic/conventional blend for at least two other oil changes._
_Always replace the oil filter anytime you change engine oil. _
_On the third oil change, switch from the conventional/synthetic blend to full synthetic._


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Budda said:


> Isnt most of the point of synthetic to get 15k km's between changes?


I haven't heard that distance but with my Pathfinder, it's 8000 vs. 5000. My Sonata was 10,000 vs. 6000. I use synthetic now as it is just as economical and it's better for your engine. 

However, it's not "synthetic". It has additives that improve it's lubricating qualities.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

I have been using Pennzoil full synthetic shortly after I bought our Jeep Compass at roughly 22,000 KM switched out regular and have been doing so since which carries a lifetime warranty from Pennzoil as long as it is done in a recognized service dealer most important to keep all receipts and the very first thing I noticed was an increase in fuel went from 7.6 litres/100KM down to 7.2litres/100Km and you won't ever get a straight answer as to how often you need to do it from any synthetic maker or dealership so I do it every 12,000KM's as it is rated for 20,000 KM per change.
I believe Pennzoil recommends that it be started before you reach 100,000 KM in your car/truck as for Nitro in tires well I use to fill my wheelchair with regular air but switched to nitro and haven't needed to fill them since they seem to hold truer and because Nitro doesn't heat up like regular air will they keep the tires at pretty well the same ft/lbs 34 when I start and after a whole day of driving over 600 KM's they read at 34.3 so for me the math was a no brainer


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Many new cars are 15k plus between oil changes and require synthetic oil. My wife's Audi is one example.

If your vehicle is more than say 5 years old and high mileage, likely not worth it.

Go by feel - if you feel like it, do it.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

My take on this being a retired auto mechanic is change your oil every 5-6k with normal oil. Got 250 K on my Honda and still going strong.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

marcos said:


> My take on this being a retired auto mechanic is change your oil every 5-6k with normal oil. Got 250 K on my Honda and still going strong.


Even with mostly highway driving?


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Budda said:


> Even with mostly highway driving?


Yep, i'm on the highway more often than in town.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

marcos said:


> My take on this being a retired auto mechanic is change your oil every 5-6k with normal oil. Got 250 K on my Honda and still going strong.


That’s pretty much how I see it. I’ve had lottsa cars do just fine on regular oil.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

My car is 11 years old. It's had synthetic in it since new. It has a computer that monitors things and tells me the oil change time, which is a long time between changes as I don't put many kilometres (it's at about 130,000) on it, so the extra cost of synthetic does not bother me much.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

When contemplating where to go on vacation and you wife says: "How about Qatar"? and you hear "How about a guitar"?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> When contemplating where to go on vacation and you wife says: "How about Qatar"? and you hear "How about a guitar"?


are you guys going to drill for synthetic oil in Qatar?


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2018)

Wardo said:


> That’s pretty much how I see it. I’ve had lottsa cars do just fine on regular oil.


Same here. Three of them went over 300K before I unloaded them.
Drive trains were still good, it was body rot that did them in.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

#1 Toyota recommends I use synthetic

#2 Only have to change oil once a year! 

Actually I do frequent short trips when it's cold out so I have to it once every six months but still better than once every three months!

I was due for an oil change in November. My garage said it wasn't needed as the oil looked fine. Went back a few weeks ago and was told the same.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2018)

I have heard that over time oil will become acidic.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

laristotle said:


> Same here. Three of them went over 300K before I unloaded them.
> Drive trains were still good, it was body rot that did them in.


I rolled over 280K on my way home from our recording session. I've had my car since 2012. It's also gotten a new (used) transmission in that time. It's a Toyota. I guess I have bad luck.

Part of the reason I don't run synthetic is that I can't afford the cost difference when oil change time does roll around.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2018)

Budda said:


> Part of the reason I don't run synthetic is that I can't afford the cost difference when oil change time does roll around.


Buy the synthetic oil (Mobile 1) when on sale at Canadian Tire. Then go into Walmart (or Canadian Tire) with the oil and your vehicle. They will subtract $10 or $15 from the price. I think Walmart charged me around $18. Plus the oil on sale at about $30, it costs about $50 for a premium oil change. You can even get your own oil filter too, like one from K&N...


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Years ago while I was taking a class on small engine repair, this question came up. The teacher replied "if you didn't change to synthetic when new and your engine has some miles on it, the damage has already been done." I personally feel that the -25 degree temps that we get here in Canada are when most damage to engines can happen while the conventional oil is warming up. Synthetic oil does not thicken when cold. That said, when I bought my new truck in 2010, the service people talked me out of synthetic and I complied. Time will tell.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

marcos said:


> My take on this being a retired auto mechanic is change your oil every 5-6k with normal oil. Got 250 K on my Honda and still going strong.


We did the same with our 1998 Corolla. Had the car since new, did oil changes every 5,000 km with whatever crap oil the lube shops use and it finally went to the boneyard at 420,000 km still running like a top but suffering from serious rust issues. Giving our current 2003 Corolla the same treatment and it's got around 270,000 km on it now and still going strong.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Player99 said:


> Buy the synthetic oil (Mobile 1) when on sale at Canadian Tire. Then go into Walmart (or Canadian Tire) with the oil and your vehicle. They will subtract $10 or $15 from the price.


That sounds like a royal pain regardless of the $ perceived to be saved.


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## Guest (Mar 22, 2018)

LanceT said:


> That sounds like a royal pain regardless of the $ perceived to be saved.


Not really. Just buy the oil when on sale. Give it to whomever you use to get an oil change. Saves about $75 over getting the oil from them.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

I get semi synthetic at my dealer which takes me 7500 K. And for under 60 bucks. Full synthetic isnt really worth it to me. It's only like 500-1000K difference. 

And I always push the limit by going over my recommended mileage. The oil is still clean at change time. Oil changes in my opinion are the biggest scam out there. Change it as soon as possible to get you back in a make more money off of you. 

Now doing what one of my ex coworkers used to do I don't recommend. And the reason I don't really like buying off lease cars. He claims he never changed the oil.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Player99 said:


> I have heard that over time oil will become acidic.


Combustion blow by causes that. Old used oil will eat into the Babbitt alloy used for the c/s bearings if left long enough.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Scotty said:


> I get semi synthetic at my dealer which takes me 7500 K. And for under 60 bucks.


It’s gotta be a loss leader for them. Ford dealer charges 48 plus tax to do semi synth and filter on my 150 plus they check a lot of other shit while it’s there.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Scotty said:


> I get semi synthetic at my dealer which takes me 7500 K. And for under 60 bucks. Full synthetic isnt really worth it to me. It's only like 500-1000K difference.
> 
> And I always push the limit by going over my recommended mileage. The oil is still clean at change time. Oil changes in my opinion are the biggest scam out there. Change it as soon as possible to get you back in a make more money off of you.
> 
> Now doing what one of my ex coworkers used to do I don't recommend. And the reason I don't really like buying off lease cars. He claims he never changed the oil.


FYI, full synthetic at Costco is $50.00.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

Current working licensed tech here.

Synthetic vs conventional oil. 

Syth 
Will last longer as it has the ability to keep particles in suspension better then conventional. But particles above 1 micron should all be caught in the filter. Or whatever the filter is rated at. Usually 1-5 microns
Flows better at minus 40 than conventional (that's a biggie on the prairies)
Has conditioners added to help keep neoprene seals soft, this prevents leaks
Most if not all manufacturers require semi-or full synthetic oil in engines to keep warranties valid


Myth:
Synthetic oil is synthetically produced.

FALSE!!!!!!!!

Synthetic oil starts out as regular run-of-the-mill petroleum. The same stuff you buy for 2.99/liter
Then the chemists get to work on it, they add conditioning agents, anti foam agents, and various other stuff I do not know, but according to the MSDS are wildly carcinogenic, and they mix it, boil it, place a voodoo curse on it by dancing naked in the moonlight, and there you have synthetic oil. 


I run semi-synthetic in my 02 trailblazer


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

djmarcelca said:


> Current working licensed tech here.
> 
> Synthetic vs conventional oil.
> 
> ...


Is syn oil not created from a byproduct of extracting natural gas?


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

laristotle said:


> Same here. Three of them went over 300K before I unloaded them.
> Drive trains were still good, it was body rot that did them in.


Same here. Of all the cars I drove into the ground, all ran strong. One had a trans go but others rotted or got plagued by electrical corrosion or all the above. But no engine issues



Wardo said:


> It’s gotta be a loss leader for them. Ford dealer charges 48 plus tax to do semi synth and filter on my 150 plus they check a lot of other shit while it’s there.





Steadfastly said:


> FYI, full synthetic at Costco is $50.00.


I'd say true in both cases. It's all about getting you in the door to spend on other stuff...tons of shit to spoil in your freezer, or the next greatest model of vehicle. 

Like grocery stores. They dont make money on garden centres but get you in the store


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

Scotty said:


> Is syn oil not created from a byproduct of extracting natural gas?


NOpe.

It starts off as ordinary motor oil


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

I've been using synthetic oil for years now. I just drop it off at the dealer and they take care of it, my brother goes the same route as player99. By the time the oil change is done I usually pay about $10-15 extra and I don't have to run around picking up jugs of oil and filters. It's not worth the difference for a once a year job. Not a big deal compared to the $55 a jug I pay for synthetic that I run in my snowmobile which will last about 700 kms depending on how light I am on the throttle.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

djmarcelca said:


> NOpe.
> 
> It starts off as ordinary motor oil


Ha! I always thought it was synthetic (some kind of plant extract) until my mechanic friend in St. Catharines set me straight last summer.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> (some kind of plant extract)


really?!?


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Steadfastly said:


> Ha! I always thought it was synthetic (some kind of plant extract) until my mechanic friend in St. Catharines set me straight last summer.


I think you might be confusing it with bio oils?


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2018)

Toyota charged me around $130 I think for an oil change with synthetic in my Celica. Last time for me at those prices...

What is Nut Sauce made from?


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I wouldn't spend the extra if it were my car. You should see the abuse I put my 26 year old engine through every single day. 5 years so far, and don't change the oil nearly often enough. It sees WOT when cold, 8000 rpm shifts, and bounces off the rev limiter every single day. I drove it 90km on Tuesday at 6-7000 rpm the whole time.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2018)

I also have found cold starting much better with the synthetic oil. That dry grinding bark the frozen motor makes when starting at -20 C -30 C doesn't happen with synthetic. For that reason alone I get synthetic.

These are motors where the owners didn't change the oil...











135,000 Km without an oil change:


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

djmarcelca said:


> Current working licensed tech here.
> Synthetic vs conventional oil.
> Syth
> Will last longer as it has the ability to keep particles in suspension better then conventional. But particles above 1 micron should all be caught in the filter. Or whatever the filter is rated at. Usually 1-5 microns
> ...


Great post..
I didnt know semi-synthetic oil existed which immediately brings up this question.
If I ask for a synthetic oil change next time around, how do I know that Im not getting the semi stuff.?
Seems to me that " pay for the good stuff and get the semi stuff" is well in the range of service from most mechanics.

again, thanks to all that have posted....very informative stuff here.
G.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

cboutilier said:


> I drove it 90km on Tuesday at 6-7000 rpm the whole time.


you really should get your transmission fixed. Or is it your clutch that's shotz?


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

The days of starting up your car at -40 and sitting there with one hand on the key wanting to shut it off while waiting for the big glowing "low oil pressure" warning light to go out........are gone. All hail synthetic!!

In the HD equipment world, everything is synthetic. The machines are very expensive, they cost a fortune to repair, and everything stops when they stop. Why risk using anything but the very best just to save a couple bucks?


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2018)




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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Is my math wrong? Seems like a no brainer.

This is my situation:
Toyota Dealership 
Conventional every three months
$48 a visit
Totals $192 a year

Synthetic
Once every 6 months (I do frequent short trips in cold weather otherwise it would be once year)
$63.25 a visit
Totals $126.50 a year.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Lincoln said:


> you really should get your transmission fixed. Or is it your clutch that's shotz?


It's my heavy right foot, and short differential gearing.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Scotty said:


> I think you might be confusing it with bio oils?


Not confusing it; I thought that's what it was. Is there such a thing as bio oils?


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

GTmaker said:


> Great post..
> I didnt know semi-synthetic oil existed which immediately brings up this question.
> If I ask for a synthetic oil change next time around, how do I know that Im not getting the semi stuff.?
> Seems to me that " pay for the good stuff and get the semi stuff" is well in the range of service from most mechanics.
> ...


most "High Mileage" engine oil is SEMI. 


Really a little reading of the label in Canadian Tire will tell you if it's Full, SEmi, or mineral oil


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

Player99 said:


>


looks like an eco-tech that's been lacking in oil changes


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

from what I understand: all the particles in synthetic are more uniform size, and distribute the load more evenly. Therefore the individual particles are less prone to break down, and the whole system will lubricate better & last longer

conventional oil particles are inconsistent in size, resulting in larger particles bearing more load than the smaller particles and eventually breaking down sooner, which leads to less effective lubricant and bits of the stuff floating around in there

that combined with more stress on the engine during cold weather starts ( as the conventional oil isn't as effective until it warms up ) implies to me that 100% synthetic is the best way to go, up here in Canada

when I switched to synthetic I could also feel my engine running much smoother; there was less vibration and it seemed to rev quieter. in the winter, at least


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Steadfastly said:


> Not confusing it; I thought that's what it was. Is there such a thing as bio oils?


Don't know about motor oils but there is in marine. Then again that's 2 stroke oil, so perhaps not


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Jim DaddyO said:


> My car is 11 years old. It's had synthetic in it since new. It has a computer that monitors things and tells me the oil change time, which is a long time between changes as I don't put many kilometres (it's at about 130,000) on it, so the extra cost of synthetic does not bother me much.



Don't these monitorings just count mileage ?


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

mawmow said:


> Don't these monitorings just count mileage ?


No, they take into account temperature, speed, acceleration, and probably a whole bunch of other variables. My oil changes are not equally spaced in regards to kilometres driven as far as my casual observation has noted.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

GTmaker said:


> Seems to me that " pay for the good stuff and get the semi stuff" is well in the range of service from most mechanics.


Do you have that little confidence/faith in your mechanic?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

cboutilier said:


> I wouldn't spend the extra if it were my car. You should see the abuse I put my 26 year old engine through every single day. 5 years so far, and don't change the oil nearly often enough. It sees WOT when cold, 8000 rpm shifts, and bounces off the rev limiter every single day. I drove it 90km on Tuesday at 6-7000 rpm the whole time.


are you serious? what kind of car is it and why do you beat on it so hard?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

greco said:


> Do you have that little confidence/faith in your mechanic?


I agree...Id change mechanics if I couldn't trust him over $20...how could I trust him with a more substantial bill?


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Diablo said:


> are you serious? what kind of car is it and why do you beat on it so hard?


1991 Honda CRX Si. 

It's fun, and I race it. And I don't care if it blows up, I can change the engine in a couple hours and do it all over again.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

cboutilier said:


> 1991 Honda CRX Si.
> 
> It's fun, and I race it. And I don't care if it blows up, I can change the engine in a couple hours and do it all over again.


fair enough. I had friends in the 90's that loved to make those cars scream. Now please post the vin so none of us ever buys it


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Diablo said:


> fair enough. I had friends in the 90's that loved to make those cars scream. Now please post the vin so none of us ever buys it


I'll never sell it.

I feel bad for whoever has my old SiR Civic. I used to go through a set of front tires every week or two. 9000 rpm shifts every gear.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> Not confusing it; I thought that's what it was. Is there such a thing as bio oils?





Scotty said:


> Don't know about motor oils but there is in marine. Then again that's 2 stroke oil, so perhaps not


We tried out some bio oil when it first came on the market about 20 years ago. Think it was called "Opti" or "Opti2". Running a fleet of large Husqvarna string trimmers. It was a summer of constant & never ending engine destruction. Switched to Amsoil 2-stroke and never had another lube-based problem. The bio oil was breaking down, it couldn't cut it.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

cboutilier said:


> 1991 Honda CRX Si.
> 
> It's fun, and I race it. And I don't care if it blows up, I can change the engine in a couple hours and do it all over again.


You had me wondering too what the hell you were driving that would rev 6K+ for extended periods of time without dying an early death. Hat's off to Honda for that one.

Reminded me of a mazda RX1 I crossed paths with in the early 70's. The owner would drive it on the highway in 2nd gear and it would rev 6K to 7K all day long, no problem.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Lincoln said:


> We tried out some bio oil when it first came on the market about 20 years ago. Think it was called "Opti" or "Opti2". Running a fleet of large Husqvarna string trimmers. It was a summer of constant & never ending engine destruction. Switched to Amsoil 2-stroke and never had another lube-based problem. The bio oil was breaking down, it couldn't cut it.


That's what I use now. 
Two things I don't like about the bio;
1) it does not dilute in gas easily. 
2) it is honey coloured - can't see that the gas is mixed or if it stays suspended or if settles


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Lincoln said:


> You had me wondering too what the hell you were driving that would rev 6K+ for extended periods of time without dying an early death. Hat's off to Honda for that one.
> 
> Reminded me of a mazda RX1 I crossed paths with in the early 70's. The owner would drive it on the highway in 2nd gear and it would rev 6K to 7K all day long, no problem.


I had a 1.6L Honda that spent all of its time between 7 and 9k and loved it.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Lincoln said:


> We tried out some bio oil when it first came on the market about 20 years ago. Think it was called "Opti" or "Opti2". Running a fleet of large Husqvarna string trimmers. It was a summer of constant & never ending engine destruction. Switched to Amsoil 2-stroke and never had another lube-based problem. The bio oil was breaking down,* it couldn't cut it*.


I guess your trimmers couldn't do much cutting either. 

Can I quote this in the "pun" thread?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Scotty said:


> Don't know about motor oils but there is in marine. Then again that's 2 stroke oil, so perhaps not


I did a google search and only found one company that was offering it, so it doesn't look like something that has bet with a lot of success.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> I guess your trimmers couldn't do much cutting either.
> 
> Can I quote this in the "pun" thread?


by all means. The pun was intentional, not accidental.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

So if I'm ever in halifax and hear a car two kilometres before I see it, I know who's driving .

PS: I hope it's only track racing.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Budda said:


> PS: I hope it's only track racing.


I hope its just like the Fast and Furious movies with the team being made up of people from all over Canada. The mechanic will be from Newfoundland and I'm already hearing Oscar buzz.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

100 cc 2 stroke rotery valve kart motors turn 20k plus. Piston is good for 4-6 hours and connecting rod maybe 8 hours if you want to push your luck. Castrol R has a good boundary layer so works well for those motors. Get the carb wrong and the engine will seize which means the rear locks up and you are just along for the ride at 70-80 mph...lol


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

vadsy said:


> I hope its just like the Fast and Furious movies with the team being made up of people from all over Canada. The mechanic will be from Newfoundland and I'm already hearing Oscar buzz.


I'm old and responsible now. It's all legal racing now, for the most part


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2018)

Mobile 1 Synthetic.


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