# Chordal Composition and Song Writing problems -- Please Help



## Dionysus (Aug 30, 2011)

*INTRODUCTION:*

My main ambition in learning the guitar has always been Songwriting and, to a degree, I have been able to write fairly catchy, albeit simple, little tunes. These little songs, however, are not to the level that I have always wished to achieve. They generally stick to a single key, with the odd borrowed chord; usually maintain a standard 4/4 time signature; and are strongly influenced by simple _1,4,5 progressions_: I find this to be too monochromatic and not very expressive. Don't get me wrong: _Jack Johnson_ definitely has a place in this musical world for me, but as far as expression and emotionality is concerned _Radiohead_ is much closer to my ideal. 

*ABILITY/APTITUDE: 
*
- Understand Harmonized Scales (Major, Minor, Harmonic Minor, Modes) 
- Memorized all Notes on Guitar
- Understand Chord Spelling 
- Memorized Major and Minor Scales 
- Know a Variety of Chords 
- Have Learnt Many Cover Songs (Majority is made up of Radiohead, Norah Jones, John Mayer and Hendrix) 

*ISSUES:
*
- Cannot seem to compose anything unique sounding 
- Don't know how to utilize chord extensions, inversions, or alterations
- Can't feel, or have much understanding of unique time signatures
- Can't seem to hear unique 4/4 rhythms 
- Am utterly lost in the genius of guys like Radiohead, Joe Pass, Jody Fisher and Leonard Cohen.

*HERE IS MY QUESTION: *

When I sit down and try to write a song, or a progression, my mind simply goes blank. I cannot seem to apply anything that I have learnt to my songwriting. How does a guitarist break out of this nasty cycle and what do you suggest I do in order to get a little closer to my goal of songwriting ? What am I missing ? 

Any, and all, help will be greatly appreciated. 

Sincerely, 

Dionysus.


----------



## hummingway (Aug 4, 2011)

You need an all of the above choice.


I write a lot so I use everything I can. I usually write the music first though I think it's easier to start from a set of lyrics. I like the melody to lead the song and often find the melody improvising on the guitar. I can hear the true melody, unfettered by the emotion of singing, when I play it on the guitar. Cool chord sequences and rhythm patterns are great and will often suggest a melody. I keep a PCM recording device handy so I can get feedback and it helps me hear things as well.

A suggestion? Do something different. Anything. Write a poem and see if a melody presents itself. Make up a song without an instrument in hand then figure out the progression. Do some chord leading.


----------



## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

I suggest try learning chord progressions. For me, I start off using different basic chord progressions, it could be a simple rock progression, jazz progression, etc. Then I change tempos to see something I would like and then move on to a new set of progressions that are related to the previous set. For a simple example, I start off with a I-IV-V then on the next verse switch to a IV-V-I. It's also easier for me to develop a melody if I have a set of chord progressions to work with. Then the lyrics. Most times, I develop a song this way, then collaborate with someone who could develop melody and lyrics to it. 

Be aware that people do things differently, so this is just a suggestion. Hopefully it can provide you with ideas when you feel you are in a rut.

Here is a link to some chord progressions:

http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/moneychords/lesson.html


----------



## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

I gave you some tips in your previous THREAD. Did you try any of those? 

What music do you listen to? How long do you listen to music each day? How often do you listen to new music you've never heard before? How long have you been playing? How old are you? What does your typical practice/playing routine look like?


----------



## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

I guess everyone has their own way of getting a song written. I would just start noodling chords, no progression just trying different chords stuck together when I got something that sounded good to me I'd find a rhythm that I felt comfortable with and then think of something in the way of lyrics, sometimes it didn't work and sometimes it did. I think most of the time it's basically a crap shoot as to whether anyone else will like what you do, for me the most important thing was to write for myself, not what I though other people would like.


----------



## Dionysus (Aug 30, 2011)

Mark P said:


> I gave you some tips in your previous THREAD. Did you try any of those?
> 
> What music do you listen to? How long do you listen to music each day? How often do you listen to new music you've never heard before? How long have you been playing? How old are you? What does your typical practice/playing routine look like?


I am *27* and I have been playing guitar, on and off, for about 7 years. 

When I find a new artist that I am interested in getting to know I will generally play their music until I burn out of it. This will usually take a month or so. Everyday I try to listen to an hour of uninterrupted music for pleasure. 

*TYPICAL PRACTICE ROUTINE: 
*
- 5 mins chromatic warm ups 
- 10 mins scale/ interval 
- 15 mins Rhythm practice (right hand focus) 
- 15 mins play through two known songs 
- 15 mins work on new cover song 
*- BREAK *
- 15 mins song analysis 
- 15 Chord scales 
*- BREAK *
- 15 min learn new chords
- 15 min try and come up with progression 


*MUSIC I LISTEN TO: 


*- Jazz: Joe Pass, Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis, Norah Jones, Nina Simone 

- Electronic: Radiohead, Bonobo, RJD2, Groove Armada, Crystal Castles 

- Blues: Robert Johnson, Freddie Kind, BB King, Eric Clapton, SRV 

- Rock/Pop: Jack Johnson, Ben Harper, Arcade Fire, Amy Winehouse, Dave Matthews Band 

- Classical: Sigur Ros, Mstislav Rostropovich, Beethoven, Bach, Jacques Loussier Trio 

To name a few.


----------



## Shark (Jun 10, 2010)

Looks like a good routine, for the most part. Very disciplined of you to stick with that.

The thing with creativity is that you can't force it out. It's like sleep, in that way. But, like sleep, you can make an environment where it is easy and natural. I can see how your current practice routine is hampering your ability to create new songs easily. Practice is training, not just improvement. With each practice you train yourself to do things that same way in the future. So if you spend the vast majority of the time training yourself in the mechanical and analytical aspects of music, then it's no surprise that the aspects that revolve around letting go and being in a state of flow don't come easily. If you want to build your creativity, devote half of your practice time to just noodling around. Improvise to songs or just play stuff in that time. You want to be playing without really thinking, just feeling. You need to _feel something_ to create something that makes others feel, IMO. 

I also recommend that you introduce your creative time much, much earlier in your session. Do it right after your 5-minute warm-ups. I know, most practice routines have it at the end, but there are two problems with that. Firstly, is much easier to break out of a creative mode (if you want to) and knuckle down for serious scales and stuff than it is to go the other way. And secondly, most of those structured practice routines were written by shredders to improve shredding, not creativity. 

To encourage song inspiration, there are a few things you can try. Firstly, newness is the essence of creativity, because something that is original is, by definition, new. A new environment, new songs to listen to, new gear, a change of routine, etc. can all provide that little something extra to get your creative juices flowing.

The next creativity booster is what I call forced boredom. This works completely the opposite way to the previous point—but it does work! There are an infinite number of ways you can play the same song. There are a lot of songs that use the same chord sequences, but they can all have their own sound. And, after all, there are only eight notes in the musical scale, but that hasn’t stopped people from creating their own unique compositions for ages. The way this works is to spend way longer than your comfort zone on one chord progression. Play the same few chords over and over and over again. Try to improvise new ways of making the progression interesting. At first you will see it as a challenge and you’ll come up with some halfway decent ideas. Next, your optimism will start to fade and you will push yourself, but nothing will turn out quite right. Then you’ll feel like there is nothing more to gain from this. After that you’ll be bored and annoyed. Push through this, because the next section is where the rewards are. Once you let go of all of your previous ideas you will start to really hear new ideas. You will respond reactively and instinctively to the music without thinking. It might take an hour on the same four chords to get to this point, though. Everyone is different. 

Another way to get yourself in a creative frame of mind is to ask yourself, "What _can't_ I do here?" So, what notes would be wrong, or what chords wouldn't fit, or what technique would suck at this point? Think of what the rules are and then make it a personal challenge to break them all and make it work.

Build your imagination in other areas of your life. It will spread to your music. So, ditch the TV, movies and spend less time online. Read books instead, especially books that have a lot of imagination to them.

Be inspired by non-musical things in life. Be inspired by colours, by sounds, by the wind, by a person’s laugh, through prayer, by whatever touches you. Play what you feel. Think of things that make you feel something, home in on that feeling, and then play it.

Have fun.


----------



## Dionysus (Aug 30, 2011)

Thanks Mark P, 

You have offered up a ton of great points and a valuable perspective. I am going to change around my routine and focus a little more time and energy into being creative, as opposed to being analytical.

I appreciate your help


----------



## geezer (Apr 30, 2008)

Maybe it's just me but...it takes me at least a half hour to warm up to where I can be creative with my playing. IMO I would mix up your practice routine from day to day and leave yourself way more time to apply what you know to letting loose and experimenting.


----------



## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

My answer isn't one of the choices in the poll, and that is all of the above.

While I am far from a prolific songwriter, and it is highly unlikely you ever heard any of them, based on my experience (Which isn't a whole lot), as well as what I've heard with people with much more experience, all of those approaches work well, you have to see which one (or which ones) work best for the way your brain and musical style and personality work.


----------



## Prosonic (Apr 28, 2009)

If you're into Radiohead then a good way to approach songwriting on a guitar is to just put your hands on the guitar and try and come up with some chords you've never played before. Find some sounds that work for you. You don't even need to know what the chords you've discovered are called. As long as it sounds good to you you're on the right track. 

Another good way to freshen up your song writing is to start with a drum track instead of guitar chords. Once you've come up with some sort of fresh new groove, put some chords on it.


----------



## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

I agree with much of what Mark P. said. You need to loosen up and pay less attention to theory. _Scales are not music​_. Discipline is ok for learning an instrument but the only discipline you need for songwriting is for setting the time aside to write songs, and to _finish what you start_. You can analyze it when you're done. You might write 10 bad songs to get to a good one but that is a part of the process of creation.

Also remember, even though you are a guitar player, a good song doesn't give a shit what instrument plays it. Try not to be guitar centric when writing and try to imagine other sounds and instruments in your head playing chords or melodies. Having a keyboard of some sort around to noodle on can help spark an idea even if you can't really play it.

You have a good varied list of influences so I assume you have a reasonably large musical vocabulary to draw from. That's a plus, but great songs can still be written with 2 or 3 chords.

The best thing about songwriting is you have carte blanche as to what method to use. There are no rules on how to write a song as far as methodology goes. You are the boss.


----------

