# Q&A Video - Tolex Glue



## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

I just made a Q&A video and discuss different types of glue used for tolex, as well as some other stuff. I'm not much of a talker so it is always weird seeing myself on screen, but check it out and let me know what you think.

(((......video no longer exists......)))


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

Regular solvent based contact cement and gel type crazy glue for corners is way to go. I didn't have so good experience with water based stuff.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

epis said:


> Regular solvent based contact cement and gel type crazy glue for corners is way to go. I didn't have so good experience with water based stuff.


I vote for solvent based as well. Water-based definitely takes longer to get tacky and it doesn't work well at all in high humidity (a major problem for us in summer). But once it does bond, it works well. I probably should have mentioned that in the video..... Maybe I should script my answers a little more so I don't miss important details like that.


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## JCM50 (Oct 5, 2011)

I tried the water based stuff this past summer and it was awful and it did not bond well. Never again. Regular contact cement works best.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Great infomercial, however the glue information doesn't quit "stick" with me. The proper tolex glue is not Weldbond or any other type of wood glue. It is not contact cement either. It really is what the pros use and I consider myself a pro having done many new production amps and retolex jobs over 9 years. If it didn't work for you, it's either the wrong stuff or you're not following instructions or not giving it time to set up. It really is easy to use and is incredibly durable. Once set it will pull the laminations off plywood if you're not careful removing it. The only trade name in Canada I've ever found was Flexweld and I've not been able to source it for some time. And yes epis, gel crazy glue is the bomb for corners and seams.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

WCGill said:


> Great infomercial


Sorry. Didn't mean for it to come across as an infomercial. It was just supposed to be short answers to common e-mail questions.



> however the glue information doesn't quit "stick" with me. The proper tolex glue is not Weldbond or any other type of wood glue. It is not contact cement either.


I couldn't agree more about the weldbond/wood-glue. But basic DIY guys seem to love using it, and it works fine for small home projects. I must be a really bad communicator if you got the impression I was endorsing it for professional work. I've used all the glues I mention in the video (not on a professional level) with varying degrees of success. Since I started charging for building services, I have been using contact cement (solvent based) and it has given me and the guys I built cabs for nothing but stellar results.



> It really is what the pros use and I consider myself a pro having done many new production amps and retolex jobs over 9 years. If it didn't work for you, it's either the wrong stuff or you're not following instructions or not giving it time to set up. It really is easy to use and is incredibly durable. Once set it will pull the laminations off plywood if you're not careful removing it. The only trade name in Canada I've ever found was Flexweld and I've not been able to source it for some time. And yes epis, gel crazy glue is the bomb for corners and seams.


I've worked in construction. You're essentially talking about the kind of epoxy that is used to attach laminates to countertops, etc. Hardcore stuff. I never considered using anything quite that intense because I can imagine the frustration of the repair guy if a cab ever needed to be re-tolexed. It seems to work well for you though. I'll have to try the gel crazy glue for corners and seems next time around.

No thoughts on the solder? I don't do a lot of soldering, aside from standard guitar stuff. What kind of stuff do you like to use when you build your amps?


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

I can't even imagine using contact cement on the sides of a cab. I picture not getting the cab and tolex aligned correctly and not being able to remove the tolex. On the last cab I built, I used Elmer's Spray Adhesive which was very convenient but wouldn't hold when I wrapped the tolex around the front and back edges. It worked fine for the sides and I now see there are better spray adhesives on the market that I didn't know about. Right now, I'm thinking for my next cab (and I don't build many), I'm going to use one of the better spray adhesives on the sides but I'll use something else yet to be determined on the edges. If you suggest anything for that purpose, please use the brand name.


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## JCM50 (Oct 5, 2011)

WCGill said:


> The proper tolex glue is not Weldbond or any other type of wood glue. It is not contact cement either.


I'm only familiar with Marshall and in my experience, the stuff they use is contact cement. It has worked very well for me and with a bit of heat, it comes off fairly easily.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

JCM50 said:


> I'm only familiar with Marshall and in my experience, the stuff they use is contact cement. It has worked very well for me and with a bit of heat, it comes off fairly easily.


Nowadays, most large scale amp/cab manufacturers (Mesa, Marshall, Fender, etc) use a machine applied heat activated glue. It takes seconds to apply a perfectly even coat to all the tolex, and only a couple of minutes to apply the tolex to the wood.

Yeah, I'm just a little jealous. A few minutes vs a couple of hours certainly lowers production costs.

Bah! I'm gonna delete/remake the video. No Q&A stuff, just a rundown of different glues and the pros and cons of using each one.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

The only information I have on solvent-based contact cement is that it can shrink tolex over time and isn't recommended. I have gleaned this from forums but you know what they say about what you read/hear on the internet. I have never used it but if your experience over time is different, then by all means, keep using it. The Flexweld I purchased a few years ago (20l pail) was exactly the same as this stuff: 

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/S-F316G

It's forgiving and not tricky to use but definitely takes some expertise that only comes with experience. I wouldn't consider using anything else. Once applied and cured it is permanent and almost impossible to remove. 

Cool that someone is making the move to handle this stuff in Canada as small builders need a source for it. I wish you the best of luck.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

I did some more digging...



WCGill said:


> The Flexweld I purchased a few years ago (20l pail) was exactly the same as this stuff:
> https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/S-F316G


Interestingly enough, that AES glue is (supposedly) the same as the following:
Wilsonart H20
Formica 160
Hybond HY-30
...and several others.

After talking with a Henkel Chemicals rep, all of the above use the same water-based contact adhesive formula. It is just sold under different brand names. Based on other forum comments, Mojotone's tolex glue is likely the same as well. Unfortunately, there are a few reasons why consistency with water-based adhesives is not always the best.

First, it has a shelf-life of about a year. Canada does not have the largest marketplace, so by the time you pick up a pail at your local shop it might already be at or past its "effective" date. Second, it has a freezing point of about 0-2 degrees celcius. Once it freezes, it is effectively useless as a bonding agent. It goes without saying that any product which has been imported, distributed, and/or shipped during our favorite half of the year is at risk of not being as effective as it should be. Then of course the usual stuff like surface cleanliness, absorption, temperature, humidity, following application instructions, etc.



> Cool that someone is making the move to handle this stuff in Canada as small builders need a source for it. I wish you the best of luck.


Thanks. Working hard to make things happen. The research is interesting, albeit very time consuming. This game requires much more patience than I'm used to...

Any other opinions on glue? I lean towards solvent-based stuff, but some people claim it shrinks the tolex over time (as WCGill pointed out). Honestly, none of my cabs are old enough for me to know if that will happen. I promised lifetime warranties on parts/labour for the first several cabs I built (oops), so hopefully people will let me know if something like that starts happening.

Others seem to like water-based stuff, but that comes with mixed reviews (probably due to some of the reasons I mentioned above). Mojotone Tru Glu and AES Tolex Glue seem to get great reviews, but they are likely the same as the other water-based adhesives. Maybe the key to get a private label adhesive, give it a fancy name like "Awesome Amplifier Adhesive", and charge double the standard rate.


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## JCM50 (Oct 5, 2011)

jbealsmusic said:


> Thanks. Working hard to make things happen. The research is interesting, albeit very time consuming. This game requires much more patience than I'm used to...
> Any other opinions on glue? I lean towards solvent-based stuff, but some people claim it shrinks the tolex over time (as WCGill pointed out). Honestly, none of my cabs are old enough for me to know if that will happen. I promised lifetime warranties on parts/labour for the first several cabs I built (oops), so hopefully people will let me know if something like that starts happening.


I re-tolexed a few cabs and used contact cement every time except once on a peavey head and two other projects. The tolex I use is the same as what Marshall uses and it never shrank and some of the cabs are going on 10+ years. That being said, the Kayline tolex does seem to shrink a little with the contact cement but I only noticed that on application. I used the Kayline tolex on two projects. The Lepage water-based contact cement, I used on the Peavey tolex. I hated the water based contact cement. The bond was weak and it wasn't as smooth. 
3M Spray adhesive isn't too bad but long term bond isn't the best. It will eventually come off.

I sold tolex to many customers around the world and always recommended contact cement.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

JCM50 said:


> I re-tolexed a few cabs and used contact cement every time except once on a peavey head and two other projects. The tolex I use is the same as what Marshall uses and it never shrank and some of the cabs are going on 10+ years. That being said, the Kayline tolex does seem to shrink a little with the contact cement but I only noticed that on application. I used the Kayline tolex on two projects. The Lepage water-based contact cement, I used on the Peavey tolex. I hated the water based contact cement. The bond was weak and it wasn't as smooth.
> 3M Spray adhesive isn't too bad but long term bond isn't the best. It will eventually come off.
> 
> I sold tolex to many customers around the world and always recommended contact cement.


That gives me some more confidence. I wonder if the folks who had shrinkage issues were using more flexible vinyl like the stuff you find at most fabric stores. Marine, auto, etc. All of it is too flexible for proper cab work IMO. Flexible means more prone to tears, and indeed shrinkage.


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