# Les Paul guys, crap or class?



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Anyone know whether this is a good one? 

I'm sort of toying with the idea of grabbing a Les Paul again. I'd love to find a scratch and dent but this one looks interesting.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150036121190&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005


----------



## aaron (Mar 6, 2006)

Hmmm,good question.Sounds like a great deal but kinda looks like a LP studio.The price seems super low for a LP let alone one that is limited,and a 9.5/10.I would research the serial #.Isnt Jeff the gibson guy around here,i'm sure he can let ya know.
Aaron


----------



## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

The 3 pc top looks like a refin. There were lots of 'limited edition' runs, basically a dealer orders a run of something different. Eg, the ebony board on this one.

Email the serial number to Gibson, ask them about the limited edition. They usually get back to you within 24 hours.

Price looks good. I do kinda like that top, gives it the look of a stripped goldtop.


----------



## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Here's my .02

Lester's are so hit and miss. You have to play them to make sure you aren't getting a dud.

I have a buddy here in Calgary that's thinking of getting rid of his 05' burst Standard. It's got the long neck tenion. Burstbucker Pros. Good weight and has the 59' neck profile. But I'm certain he'll want around $2000 for it. He played allot of lesters to find this particular one, it's a gooder. I can hook you guys up if that dollar figure doesn't scare you away.

Jeff


----------



## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

There was a recent thread on the LPF on one of those gold hardware standards with the 3 piece top. It looks like a great deal but I'd take Jeff's advice and find one you can play first to make sure you can live with it. With a guitar like that, you might be afraid to really dig in and play it because it might have some collector value. If you're looking for a player, that probably isn't the best choice. But if you have GAS..........


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Guys,

Thanks for the responses. I'm looking for a player, not something to polish and display, but $2K (although probably fair market value) is not going to happen right now. 


What strikes me as odd, is how a guitar costing more than $1000. new can be hit and miss in terms of quality and sound.


You should be able to buy one sight unseen, do a set up and away you go.


Like I said, a banged up one would suit me fine as long as it's fully functional.


----------



## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Guys,
> 
> What strikes me as odd, is how a guitar costing more than $1000. new can be hit and miss in terms of quality and sound.
> 
> ...


$5000 guitars can be hit or miss.  You can find dud Historic Gibsons, Custom Shop Fenders and PRSi.

But it's all relative you have to play allot of them to be able to dicern the difference. If you don't you can pickup a PRS or Les Paul and be blown away by an average or less than average guitar and live happily ever after with it. The only exception might be a 10+ lb Les Paul that might get a little tiring around the neck after a while.

.02


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> $5000 guitars can be hit or miss.  You can find dud Historic Gibsons, Custom Shop Fenders and PRSi.
> 
> But it's all relative you have to play allot of them to be able to dicern the difference. If you don't you can pickup a PRS or Les Paul and be blown away by an average or less than average guitar and live happily ever after with it. The only exception might be a 10+ lb Les Paul that might get a little tiring around the neck after a while.
> 
> .02



Well I've owned a couple of LPs over the years and one of them according to the afficionados was made during some not so good years (77). I thought it was a great guitar and I wish I had fought the impulse to trade it.


Since the mid eighties I've basically scorned the high end guitars because I thought and frankly STILL think they're horrendously overpriced. I've frankensteined all of my stage guitars since then. Having said that, there's no excuse for a Gibson Les Paul to be hit and miss. It's a shame.


I may have to take my chances, because I can't see paying $2400. for a Les Paul. It's likely worth it to some people but not to me. I'll keep looking on E-bay and elsewhere.


Thanks again for the feeback.


Oh and weight doesn't bother me.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Here's a quick response from a good friend in the states who knows what he's talking about.

"The 315th Studio that day, made in the Memphis plant in 93....
Those were some of the best studios..."

keep in mind that it's still a studio. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just pointing it out.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

davetcan said:


> Here's a quick response from a good friend in the states who knows what he's talking about.
> 
> "The 315th Studio that day, made in the Memphis plant in 93....
> Those were some of the best studios..."
> ...



Well, not to draw you into the crossfire, but what do you perceive the functional differences between a Standard and a Studio to be?


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Well, not to draw you into the crossfire, but what do you perceive the functional differences between a Standard and a Studio to be?


Well in my opinion it could be nothing more than cosmetics  

The only things that really matter are:

If you pick it up and it speaks to you, buy it. If you plug it in and it still speaks to you, buy it quick. You won't need to mess around with pickups and electronics.

The only reason I pointed out that it was a Studio was to be careful with the price. The $2000 dollar LP that Jeff mentioned will be still be worth $2000 or more a few years from now. You'll get your money back, almost guaranteed. If you pay too much for a Studio and discover you don't like it you might take a bath. The price on the guitar in question doesn't look too bad but if goes much higher think seriously before pulling the trigger.

Of course if GAS has already struck then all of the above is moot. Been there, done that. (a few times) :food-smiley-004:


btw - the place where I got the info on the guitar is now arguing over wether it's the 315th studio that day or the 315th that year 

edit: just got the final word, he meant 315th day of the year. He was typing his answer from work so had to be pretty quick


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

davetcan said:


> Well in my opinion it could be nothing more than cosmetics
> 
> The only things that really matter are:
> 
> ...



Ah well guitars really don't "speak to me". I'm really unemotional about them. I see them as valued tools, not old friends. I don't mean to sound sarcastic. I just don't get attached to guitars or gear in general. 

It's entirely possible that I will buy one on E-bay so trying it out first is not likely. Also, I'll almost certainly replace the pickups anyway.



If the only fucntional differences between the Standard and Studio are the pickups and binding, why is a Standard almost double the price?

There must be more to it.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Milkman said:


> If the only functional differences between the Standard and Studio are the pickups and binding, why is a Standard almost double the price?
> 
> There must be more to it.


Functional difference ? It's an electric guitar, you pluck the strings and sound comes out of the amp. I'm sure Gibson would point out the quality of the wood and electronics and maybe even the hardware, tuners etc. But I have to tell you I've picked up some pretty shitty LP's in my time. Also picked up some very good ones. Price does not necessarily enter into the equation. Just my opinion YMMV. :smile:


----------



## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

I had a 92 Studio that had the ebony fretboard, and the only thing that made it feel different from my Custom was the lack of binding. I cant speak for all Studios, but the early 90s Studios were great guitars............


----------



## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Ah well guitars really don't "speak to me". I'm really unemotional about them. I see them as valued tools, not old friends. I don't mean to sound sarcastic. I just don't get attached to guitars or gear in general.
> 
> It's entirely possible that I will buy one on E-bay so trying it out first is not likely. Also, I'll almost certainly replace the pickups anyway.
> 
> ...


Off the top of my head.

Long neck tenion.
Higher grade wood. 
Better pickups.

Not a whole lot besides cosmetics after that.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I know some of the studio models are all mahogany (no maple top).


I'll likely upgrade the pups anyway, so my main concerns would be a decent neck (most :LPs are pretty good in this respect)


----------



## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

It looks nice. Buy it Mike. If you don't like it you should be able to get your money back pretty easily.

I saw a couple of nice ones on the net. Check Elderley inst.



> http://www.elderly.com/


Or Dave's is good. My brother bought his 59 there and another friend bought a LP jr. heritage from them they both had a happy experience. 



> http://www.davesguitar.com/


What about a trip to TO the 12th fret and the rest of those places have lot's of stuff.

Nothing at Dave's I looked. You want a Black 58 $119,000 I bet you could get it for 112 cash


----------



## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

> http://www.bostonguitar.com/Merchan...EG-GIBS-STUDIO-WINEREDu&Category_Code=EG-GIBS


Look at this one Mike

Or these


> http://search.ebay.com/Les-Paul-Stu...acatZQ2d1QQsaprchiZQQsaprcloZQQssPageNameZWD5


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

elindso said:


> Look at this one Mike
> 
> Or these



LOL

I just won the Wine Red Studio in your link bud.


Thanks.


----------



## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

Glad I could be of service Mike.

I know what it looks like so this dosn't apply for me. Need Pics 

Congrats and welcome back to the fold.:food-smiley-004:


----------



## Soldano16 (Sep 14, 2006)

I've owned over 25 Les Pauls and they are definitely hit and miss. Why?

A big part of the Les Paul sound is the acoustic resonance of the guitar. That makes it VERY dependent on the wood. And wood is hit and miss, even between 59 bursts. I've played a 57 PAF GT that was lame. 

Les Pauls are great guitars because they have so much personality. But that doesn't mean they are all nice. 

PS: The studio is a very good way to get a good LP at a better price. The one you show on eBay is a very nice guitar. But any instrument bought unplayed is a risk.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

elindso said:


> Glad I could be of service Mike.
> 
> I know what it looks like so this dosn't apply for me. Need Pics
> 
> Congrats and welcome back to the fold.:food-smiley-004:



Pics tomorrow night (if all goes as planned):food-smiley-004:


----------



## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

Soldano16 said:


> I've owned over 25 Les Pauls and they are definitely hit and miss. Why?
> 
> A big part of the Les Paul sound is the acoustic resonance of the guitar. That makes it VERY dependent on the wood. And wood is hit and miss, even between 59 bursts. I've played a 57 PAF GT that was lame.
> 
> ...


That's a lot of Les Paul'sDrool How many do you have now?

I can also say the same for Fender, I've played 50's and 60's Fenders that felt like crap. They can't all be good. 

It is good that the Milkman can pick it up as he is paying. If it is a piece of sh*t you don't have to buy it.


----------



## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Long neck tenons aren't in the Standards, only in the Historics as far as I know.

Les Pauls are strange beasts. As mentioned above, always always always try to play it first, and not just for 2 minutes. Play it acoustically too.

Pricing is always an issue, as to what you are willing to spend. I almost picked up a nice Special the other day for $500, but couldn't really figure out why I needed it.

On the other hand, my used R9 out of the States, by the time I landed it was something like $3600. Buying unplayed, for that kind of $, required I trusted the dealer - Marks Guitar Loft. It is absolutely, for me, the best guitar I've ever played in the 40 some odd years I've been hacking around on guitars.

I don't know that I've run into a Les Paul I'd call a dud. Many that could definitely use a parts change or, usually, a good set up. But I have run into a lot that were, well, unremarkable.

When you find one that speaks to you, you'll be willing to drop some extra coin on it. And the 'one' for me, may not be the 'one' for you. That is something wonderful about LP's.


----------



## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

dwagar said:


> Long neck tenons aren't in the Standards, only in the Historics as far as I know.


No they were added to the standards a year or so ago.


----------



## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Are you sure about that, Jeff? I don't see it on the specs on Gibson.com, but they do show it on the historics on Gibsoncustom.com.
I thought that was one of their "selling features" to command the extra $ for Historics. And, no, I don't want to start a discussion whether it's worth the $ or not, lol.


----------



## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

dwagar said:


> Are you sure about that, Jeff? I don't see it on the specs on Gibson.com, but they do show it on the historics on Gibsoncustom.com.
> I thought that was one of their "selling features" to command the extra $ for Historics. And, no, I don't want to start a discussion whether it's worth the $ or not, lol.


When my buddy bought his Standard, I was certain Gibson was advertising it as such.

The salesman at L&M told me it had just changed, I called BS and looked it up and sure as shit. This was all the same time they started offering the 2 neck choices.

I'm thinking they might have false advertised for a short period and caught their mistake.

It certainly looks like you are correct though. No reference to a Long Neck tenon anymore. 

:thanks5qx:


----------



## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

yeah, misinformation from the salesmen, I know about that.

My last laugh at L&M was when I was in to view the R8, the salesman said "the best thing is they have REAL bumblebees in them!" ROFL.

I don't blame them, they probably just don't know any better. And if Gibson printed the tenon wrong, the salesmen were probably told it wrong at the time.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I believe there are differences from LP to LP of the same model and year, but unless their QC is utter rubbish it should be a matter of eqing the amp to get your tone.


I'm not really fanatical about tone anyway. I believe most of your sound is in your hands. Basic characteristics are what I'm concerned about.


Even when I've had the option of trying an assortment of guitars to pick the one I wanted, I've quickly grown bored and grabbed the first or second one.

I've generally had the results I wanted. Nice thing about Gibsons is that if you happen to get one you REALLY don't like you can flip it and not lose anything but time.


----------



## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

dwagar said:


> Long neck tenons aren't in the Standards, only in the Historics as far as I know.
> 
> Les Pauls are strange beasts. As mentioned above, always always always try to play it first, and not just for 2 minutes. Play it acoustically too.
> 
> ...


That's why I have my Goldtop. It's an LE that I probably paid a few bucks too much for, but damn it plays just the way I like them. I bought it from a friend who bought a 59 RI for a large whack of cash. I probably helped by buying this one from him. Although money wasn't an issue for him. It was a good deal because I like it so much. I like it better than anyother LP I've played. I've played a bunch. 

I usually don't like Customs. I don't know why I just don't. Standards with a transition size neck. The neck on mine is between a 59 boat neck and a 60 slim neck.


----------



## Soldano16 (Sep 14, 2006)

> How many do you have now?


I try and keep my life to the bare essentialsevilGuitar: I want the great guitar rather than variety. 

1 long tenon LP standard with humbuckers
1 long tenon LP standard with P-90's
_
2 Les Pauls


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Well,

I picked it up last night. 

I used it for rehearsal but I can't really assess it yet. I think the guy must have had it rewired and set up by a drummer.  

Pickups wired backwards to the switch, neck pup working intermitantly (bad solder at the switch). 


Action? Strings almost laying on the neck. Tailpiece almost screwed out completely? 

I'll do my thing to it this evening. I'd say an hour should make it right. 

Certainly nothing damaged. I found a small nick in one of the upper frets, which will buff out no problem. 


Nice thing about Les Pauls is that unless you screw with the neck (badly) or rout wood out, they're pretty easy to bring back. 

It did feel "right" to me in terms of balance. This baby is heavy, but I'll take heavy over NECK-heavy any day. 


The one thing I realized is how safe my strap locks make me feel. I was PARANOID to let go of the neck without them. That will also be corrected tonight.


----------



## Soldano16 (Sep 14, 2006)

Super congratulations. As a total LP fanatic, it's always great to see someone join THE club. :food-smiley-004: 

From the ad it looked like that could be a real looker LP. How does it look up close?


----------



## Rumble_b (Feb 14, 2006)

Hmm all this LP talk makes me want to put down my 12 string and pick up my studio, wine red with chrome of course!


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Soldano16 said:


> Super congratulations. As a total LP fanatic, it's always great to see someone join THE club. :food-smiley-004:
> 
> From the ad it looked like that could be a real looker LP. How does it look up close?


Thanks man,

I've rewired it, set it up and cleaned up the worst of the grime.

To my eyes it looks fantastic, lot's of character marks, but this guitar's purpose is to be played, not polished and kept in a glass case.

I've only played it through a little Line 6 Spider practice amp since I've worked on it and it sounds exactly like....a Les Paul (what more can you say).


For some reason it makes me want to play on the heavy side and I find my vibrato becoming wider and a bit more intense, LOL.


I'll pic whore it as soon as I find the USB cable for the camera (damn kids).


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

The going reasonable price for a used studio seems to be $850 +/- . Tried a used one at store on Queen West ($945) - Needed a damn good setup. Stores seem to charge more. This one was a consignment piece. I don't think I could bond with it. However, there was an LP Double Cut that felt and played very nice. (Took a double dose of GAS-X when I got home :wink: )


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

As I remembered, Leas Pauls and I get along nicely.


Feels bloody fantastic.


----------



## SCREEM (Feb 2, 2006)

sweet guitar, I'm gassin' bad for one after trying Lindsey's gold top...best LP I've tried so far Drool


----------



## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

Haha. 

I told him "no go on play it it's nice"

He said "nah then I'll just really want one".

I said "how can it hurt, you'll enjoy it".

I took it out of the case adjusted the strap, now he needs one:wink: evilGuitar:


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

elindso said:


> Haha.
> 
> I told him "no go on play it it's nice"
> 
> ...



Sick bastage!


There's really no substitute for the real deal I guess..


----------



## SCREEM (Feb 2, 2006)

I've been looking at LP spam all morning. I don't expect to find one like the Gold top anytime soon, the thick tappered neck is really haunting me :tongue:


----------

