# How do you know how much to strum?



## Dirk (Jul 30, 2015)

I'm still learning chords and strumming - the Barre F chord is my current challenge!

I look at songs that have say 3 or 4 chords, some are spaced fairly close together and others have quite a spread between them ... how do you know whether to strum your pattern once or twice or ?

Maybe I'll sneak in a second question, during my practise of changing chords I wonder if certain chords have a tendency to follow other certain chords. Perhaps in other words, are there patterns that show up more than others? 

First of many questions, thanks
Dirk


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

You have o go by the feel of the song--what sort of rhythm does it have--what feel should it have--if it's a song that's been recorded and you want to play it as it is--then listen to the song.
If that doesn't matter or if you're just playing for fun or if you're going to record it--then make it up--see what suits the song--or if there is someone else who's a leader they may give you instructions.

It depends on context, whose in charge & what you're looking to accomplish.

And have fun with it.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

There really aren't any RULES regarding when, how, how many times you strum. My advice, listen to the song, really listen, particularly to the beat. Then try to think how you would describe that beat to someone. Eg. Bum-tick-tick or Bum-tica. Really, there are a zillion strumming patterns, downstrokes, upstrokes, pops, muted, etc. Don't think you'll get 'em all right out of the gate. For now, try to play something that matches the FEEL of whatever you're listening to. Don't worry about it. It'll come.

And, yes, quite often, you'll see certain chords appearing together quite often. That's because of the different keys. Some chords just work together better than others. They may not always be in the same patterns relative to one another though.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I think the most popular pattern is G E C D. Must be a million songs using that. For strumming I'll do a quick look on youtube and see what is happening


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## Dirk (Jul 30, 2015)

Thank you - this really helps me to understand.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

This is important stuff. I find that strumming patterns are hard. When I take lessons it's usually all about strumming. If you can't find the beat of a song you will struggle with playing the melody or lead as well. I don't have a great ear for this so when I find a song I'm really struggling with I take a lesson on how to strum that song. Half an hour with a good teacher, you've got the song down, and your sense of timing is improved. I used to take lessons once a week, then once every two weeks, now it's down to once a month or so and it's almost always about strumming. The other key thing with strumming for me is figuring out which notes in the chord to strum. Even if you fret the whole barre chord a lot of times you only strum three or four of the notes.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

Agreed on going with the feel.
There's a song that I play with my friends' band when they let me sit in that has a strum pattern of two strums to four beats, but I always hear it as a Bum-tica and play it that way. And it works perfectly because it fits the feel of the song.

As for what chords go together, there is always a chord progression that I'd defined for songs. You will see reference to I-IV-V for example. That's a very common progression that represents the first, fourth, and fifth notes in the key in which you are playing.

We use the Roman numerals because it provides one way to describe the progression no matter what key you are in. The actual nots/chords will change depending on the key.

For example, in the key of A, the I chord would be A, the IV chord would be D, and the V chord would be E.

1. A - I 
2. B
3. C
4. D - IV
5. E - V

If you change the key to say, C, then you start with C as 1, then D, then E, then F as 4, G as 5... Etc.

This is a simple example to get the concept in your head.
There are differences when you start to talk about minors and sixth, seventh, etc. but that's more advanced stuff that I don't really understand yet. I'm just aware that they exist and play them by rote when I do play them at all.

Most importantly, play different chords in different order and find out what works and what doesn't. You'll learn a ton more than when you follow rules. Just don't stop experimenting.

Have fun!


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Knowing the RULES with chords and keys is one thing. Knowing when to IGNORE the rules is another. If it sounds good...do it.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> Knowing the RULES with chords and keys is one thing. Knowing when to IGNORE the rules is another. If it sounds good...do it.


Exactly. Sometimes something that isn't supposed to work, does.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Kerry Brown said:


> This is important stuff. I find that strumming patterns are hard.



I wish fake books/chord books would give strumming patterns. My ear sucks (maybe due to my noise induced hearing loss) so I often have trouble picking out a strum pattern.


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## Dirk (Jul 30, 2015)

Must admit I was hesitant to ask the question, thinking it may be one of those "dumb ones" ....but so glad I did.

Somewhere I bookmarked a website that gave a lot of different strumming patterns, I look forward to being able to experiment.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I have similar problems. Not only with choosing/achieving a strumming pattern but also with maintaining the rhythm/not breaking the pattern.

Cheers

Dave

- - - Updated - - -



Dirk said:


> ... the Barre F chord is my current challenge!


The barre F chord is a pain in the index finger...LOL


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I can keep the pattern when strumming, but as soon as i try to sing I lose the pattern....


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

knight_yyz said:


> I can keep the pattern when strumming, but as soon as i try to sing I lose the pattern....


I don't even get that far...
I've tried all sorts of tips over the years, but I just can't play guitar & sing at the same time.

Maybe I'll be able to sing while playing bass one day.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

knight_yyz said:


> I can keep the pattern when strumming, but as soon as i try to sing I lose the pattern....


Oh, that's a whole other ball game.

The last time I was on stage, the singer tried to get me to sing backing vocals while I was playing. The song turned into a train wreck right then and there.

I can't speak from experience, but I've heard that the trick is to get the guitar playing to the point where you're not even thinking about it, then work in the vocals.
Another trick to help with timing is to learn on which words the chord changes. It sort of connects the words and chords together.

So, practice.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

wao ....Ive seen some interesting responses to this thread. Here is my take.
ABout the strumming ....
When you learn a song, you learn the chords that belong in the song.
While you play these chords, they should have a certain feel that belongs to the song.
If you don't know the chords and don't know the feel , then you don't know the song.

Unless you are writing your own song, the chords and feel are in the song you are trying to learn.
Listen to the song and play it like it is in the record. You down have to make anything up. Its all in the song you are trying to learn.

As for trying to keep the tempo ....
If you are playing along with the song....there should be no problem...the song has the tempo and you are playing along with it.
You should be able to stop playing anytime in the song and start up again and you will still be in tempo because the song being played cannot go out of tempo..if you are playing along with the song, you are in tempo.
If you cant keep the tempo while playing the song alone, then its just because you have no had enough practice playing along with a drummer or playing along with a recorded song. Both offer a tempo that you play along with.
Once that tempo becomes part of your playing, then you will know how to play the song properly.

AS for singing....
Singing a song, is the lead line of the song. If you don't know it , then you cant sing it.
Strumming the chords is just an assistance to keep you in key as the different changes happen in the song.
You should be able to sing the song with out any chords at all....

Singing harmony has very little to do with playing and has everything to do with your ability to hear the harmony interval that you are going to sing.
I have met many singers that cant get past the lead line no matter how much they try.
Plenty of harmony practice can help but some folks can pick it up easily and some other really have to work hard to get the same results.

bottom line...plenty of practice cures a lot of weaknesses.

and that's all I have to say about that.
G.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

zontar said:


> I don't even get that far...
> I've tried all sorts of tips over the years, but I just can't play guitar & sing at the same time.
> 
> Maybe I'll be able to sing while playing bass one day.


I can sing all day with my guitar - for some reason bass is much harder to sing with.

When you're first trying to sing, just strum the downbeat. It may help to circle or underline the syllables in the lyrics where the downbeats occur.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

My suggestion is to play with the recording of the song. You don't have to play exactly what the guitar player is doing. Just try to play along with it. That will help you with strumming. For me, it's one of those things that I've never had to learn, I just thought it came naturally for me. Although, I might add it's been close to 50 years now since I started playing guitar. But then I've never had anybody actually teach me how to play. I just watched other people play guitar at the beginning. Also, during that time, most people playing guitar were playing acoustic guitars rather than electric ones at least where I was growing up.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I can almost sing and play Hotel California, but it probably has something to do with the fact that I really know the lyrics. I was watching some youtube videos about how to do both and most of them say the same thing. You have to be able to play the song without thinking about it. Then you really have to memorize the lyrics. Here's the funny part though. If you listen to your favorite song on the radio you can probably sing the lyrics all day. But if you are not singing along, can you still remember all the lyrics? I always thought I could, but when you have to concentrate on your playing, and try to "remember" the lyrics, it is harder. The easier the song is to play, the easier it will be to sing along...


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

bw66 said:


> I can sing all day with my guitar - for some reason bass is much harder to sing with.
> 
> When you're first trying to sing, just strum the downbeat. It may help to circle or underline the syllables in the lyrics where the downbeats occur.


I've tried it--tried all the tricks & tips--they don't come close for me--but with bass I can kind of get close, as long as it's not some crazy riff.

But I still try.

I can barely count out loud while playing.


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