# Toyota sucks too



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

There goes the big quality image for Toyota eh? 5 million vehicles on recall and a nose diving stock. Will be doing some serious pr work for awhile

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

All car companies suck, people just dont realize it. The real problem with the Toyota recalls isnt the fact that there is one, its that they tried to cover it up, deny problems they knew existed and that just ended up with an investigation into their business. These recalls are to try and take the heat off from the investigations...........


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

*As some women said*

On TV this morning I am not worried about my Toyota, but I am scared of the one driving behind me, so like all cars I guess that means that we are ultimately going to have to pay the price for this mess also, if not today then certainly tomorrow.Ship


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

if i had money-
i'd tell you what i'd do
trade in my toyota
for a new guitar or two!


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2010)

GuitarsCanada said:


> There goes the big quality image for Toyota eh? 5 million vehicles on recall and a nose diving stock. Will be doing some serious pr work for awhile
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Hey, Ford turned a big profit in 2009. Maybe I need to look at a domestic? I really hope they bring the Focus RS to Canada!


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

iaresee said:


> Hey, Ford turned a big profit in 2009. Maybe I need to look at a domestic? I really hope they bring the Focus RS to Canada!


GM is currently offering $1000 for you to drop off your Toyota at the scrap heap and buy a GM. I believe Ford also jumped on that bandwagon and are offering some kind of "trade in your Toyota: special. Check your local dealer for details.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> GM is currently offering $1000 for you to drop off your Toyota at the scrap heap and buy a GM. I believe Ford also jumped on that bandwagon and are offering some kind of "trade in your Toyota: special. Check your local dealer for details.


Practically every dealer was offering this deal 2 years ago when we leased the Toyota Rav4 (not caught in the recall, thank goodness, I called the dealer). We like the vehicle, though anything can change when it comes to automobiles.

Peace, Mooh.


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## zurn (Oct 21, 2009)

DOH! Just got a 2010 Matrix lol


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

GM Needs all the help it can get



> NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors is offering incentives of $1,000 and low financing rates specifically for Toyota customers worried about their recalled vehicles, beginning Wednesday.
> 
> "We decided to make this offer after receiving many e-mails and calls from our dealers, who have been approached by Toyota customers asking for help," GM said in a statement. The offers will run through the end of February.
> 
> ...


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

there's still honda, mazda, nissan, and subaru. no way would i buy an american car (or motorcycle)


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

cheezyridr said:


> there's still honda, mazda, nissan, and subaru. no way would i buy an american car (or motorcycle)


I always like to ask people why they make that comment. Care to explain your reasoning? I spent 20 years in the auto biz and like to hear these things.


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## jcayer (Mar 25, 2007)

zurn said:


> DOH! Just got a 2010 Matrix lol


DOH, just got a 2010 Pontiac Vibe ...


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2010)

GuitarsCanada said:


> GM is currently offering $1000 for you to drop off your Toyota at the scrap heap and buy a GM. I believe Ford also jumped on that bandwagon and are offering some kind of "trade in your Toyota: special. Check your local dealer for details.


 Well, what I _really_ want right now is a Pontiac G8. I need a big sedan. All the better if it's got a stinking fast V8 in it.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

I'll give you my 10cents. I have had a Toyota Tercel (11years no issues) a VW Jetta (9years old no issues) a 2000 Honda Civic sold in 06 with all original parts including brakes and clutch. I currently have an 07 Dogge Caravan and it's been nothing but problems. Had to immediately go back to the dealer due to a terrible leak the first time it rained, turned out the window had been smashed and replaced shoddily. Already replaced a tie-rod the engine stutters, every single tire on it has gone flat and they are now baldinis at only 80K. Had to get the wiper hoses fixed twice. Can't wait to get rid of it! Lookin at a new VW golf. I'll never buy domestic again.


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## Stonesy (Oct 7, 2008)

Well Dodges are a bit dodgy, its in their name.
I have had 4 Ford pickups and have had no problems with them except for wear and tear, and people smashin into me.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

We had an investment advisor in a session today who threw out an interesting theory....I was somewhat thrown as it has a bit of a 'conspiracy theory' taste to it, but that may be just my take.

Anyways, what she said was that it was done out of Toyota's DESIRE to halt production at the current moment in time, so they don't raise inventory levels any further during this recession. I'm not at all sure I buy into this thought personally, though I suppose I can see the logic behind it...perfect time to shut down the plants and retool to correct the issues.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2010)

keto said:


> We had an investment advisor in a session today who threw out an interesting theory....I was somewhat thrown as it has a bit of a 'conspiracy theory' taste to it, but that may be just my take.
> 
> Anyways, what she said was that it was done out of Toyota's DESIRE to halt production at the current moment in time, so they don't raise inventory levels any further during this recession. I'm not at all sure I buy into this thought personally, though I suppose I can see the logic behind it...perfect time to shut down the plants and retool to correct the issues.


 You would have the BoD lynching the CEO if this was even close to true. It's so fiscally irresponsible it's akin to CEO suicide. You just don't get to ream your shareholders like that. No one would stand for the pain this is causing the share price, even if you could argue it's short term pain for long term gain.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

That is an unfortunate story Starbuck, but the reason a lot of people buy Chrysler products is because they are a lot cheaper than the competition. There is a reason for that. Most of them are junk. They have terrible transmissions, especially in the trucks and vans. Of the former big three, the only thing they have had going for them in recent memory has been the styling. They did a really nice job on a lot of the cars they have put out over the last 10 years. They brought back the HEMI to capture some of that glory, and it's still a great engine. The rest of them I would not touch.

But if I may offer my worthless opinion, formulated over many years of having to know all of this nonsense intimately...

Forget about the 70's and 80's and even most of the 90's. Erase that from memory because it has zero to do with buying a car in the year 2010.

There are only a few factors that need to be considered when buying. It's not super complicated

1) Styling - What does it make you feel like when you look at it
2) Comfort - What does it feel like when you drive it, handling etc
3) Price - anything over $10,000 is grossly overpriced so they are all ridiculous there
4) Powertrain and components

There is only two on that list that I have any interest in and only one that is going to cost me money after I buy it. Powertrain and components.

Your car may look great in the driveway but if it breaks down everytime you start it up, then styling really does not matter much. There was a time when the Asian car makers had all of these factors working for them and they kicked the shit out all three of the former Detroit car companies and they kicked the shit out of them for the better part of 15 years.

In terms of Ford and GM those days are long over. They are building fabulous vehicles right now. I still would not buy a Chrysler product. In the last several years or so I drove the snot out of two Grand Prix GTP with a supercharged 3.8L, a GMC Envoy with the Line 6 and a Cadillac CTS with the 3.6L V6 and I mean drove them. Like 65K a year minimum. When I turned in my last GTP it had well over 200K on it and I never did a thing to any of those vehicles other than regualr maintainance, none of them. My only complaint on any of them was the braking response on the Envoy, it was not tight enough for my liking and you had to lean on them.

I drove GM all those years because I was the sales manager for the GM team at work. When I turned in my last vehicle when I got out of the biz and actually had to go out and buy my first vehicle with my own money in over 15 years I went straight to the Ford dealership and bought a F150 pick-up truck, IMO the best trucks made today inside and out. I have been driving that one for going on two years and have done nothing but change the oil in it.

Right now, I would put up the Gen III/IV engine that GM puts out to anything in the world in all its iterations including the Vette engine. Those engines will run for 400K on oil changes alone. The Ford 4.6L is right up there too, wonderful engine. The transmissions have come a long way as well. The GM 3800 IMO is the best engine ever made, period.

There will always be some issues with any car. None of them are perfect but that goes across the board, the whole board. The image that was created years ago by the Asian car companies that the North American car companies sold junk was true, 20 years ago. They have done all they can to hang on to that image and have literally convinced a generation that anything made by the former big three is still junk. It's a lie.

It may sound like I am pro GM or Ford but I am really not. My first car was a Mercury Cougar and I used to have to put down cardboard in the driveway it leaked oil that bad. They had a terrible time period, they all did. But those days are long gone now. I am not saying the Asian car makers dont make great products, they do. But the competition is back in the game for sure.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

keto said:


> We had an investment advisor in a session today who threw out an interesting theory....I was somewhat thrown as it has a bit of a 'conspiracy theory' taste to it, but that may be just my take.
> 
> Anyways, what she said was that it was done out of Toyota's DESIRE to halt production at the current moment in time, so they don't raise inventory levels any further during this recession. I'm not at all sure I buy into this thought personally, though I suppose I can see the logic behind it...perfect time to shut down the plants and retool to correct the issues.


This is incorrect. Toyota's story is also incorrect. The halt to production was done by the Highway Safety arm of the US government. Toyota is acting like they are doing things on their own accord, but they are being told to stop selling cars that have been deemed unsafe because of a faulty design that was appearently known by the company. Luckily only a handful of people have died. It hasnt gotten as bad as the Mitsibushi coverup from about 10 year ago when there had to be raids and executives went to jail for covering up this shit...........


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

cheezyridr said:


> there's still honda, mazda, nissan, and subaru. no way would i buy an american car (or motorcycle)


Did you know that mazda and ford are one in the same...?
Mazda3 = Focus
Mazda6 = Fusion



And Iaresse, if you're thinking domestic, check out the Ford Fusion, fantastic car for the money. And again it's built on the same platform and shares the drivetrain with the mazda6


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

The reason that people buy Dodge and Chrysler, is they're cheap, and if you're one of those people that buys a new car every five years, why not buy a Chrysler?


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

keto said:


> We had an investment advisor in a session today who threw out an interesting theory....I was somewhat thrown as it has a bit of a 'conspiracy theory' taste to it, but that may be just my take.
> 
> Anyways, what she said was that it was done out of Toyota's DESIRE to halt production at the current moment in time, so they don't raise inventory levels any further during this recession. I'm not at all sure I buy into this thought personally, though I suppose I can see the logic behind it...perfect time to shut down the plants and retool to correct the issues.


Just read an article in the Globe where the supplier of the pedal is interviewed. He states that they have been working a "redesign that addresses the issue for some time". Toyota makes it sound like it's just surfaced. The Sun makes it sound like Toyota are grand corporate citizens ...... spin, spin, spin.


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## shizno (Jan 28, 2010)

i found this very very funny because my mom bought one a week before the recall and now she is flipping


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## noobcake (Mar 8, 2006)

Xanadu said:


> Did you know that mazda and ford are one in the same...?
> Mazda3 = Focus
> Mazda6 = Fusion
> 
> ...


The styling of the mazdas look much better though IMO. The big chrome grill on the newer fords looks tacky as hell if you ask me.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2010)

Xanadu said:


> Did you know that mazda and ford are one in the same...?
> Mazda3 = Focus
> Mazda6 = Fusion


That doesn't surprise me. There's a lot of inter-company development now. Shared platforms with different stuff dropped on top of them.

So where's my Focus RS equivalent from Mazda? Sure as heck ain't in the Mazdaspeed lineup... 



> And Iaresse, if you're thinking domestic, check out the Ford Fusion, fantastic car for the money. And again it's built on the same platform and shares the drivetrain with the mazda6


Yea, I'm not really in the market. I lust after a G8 w/V8 because I can't have an M5. But really we're a 1 car family and my '01 Pathfinder only has 130k km's on it. So lots of time before I'm buying another vehicle. I do like the Fusion -- do a double take every time I pass one thinking it's a German vehicle. The Mazda6 ain't too shabby either.

I'd really like to get a 2010 VW GTi. But man they are WAAAAY overpriced in Canada. Friend just relocated to San Jose and he picked one up, brand new, for $24,500 USD. Same options here and it's $40,000 -- what the hell? That'd be a sweet, sweet commuter car if it weren't for the absolutely STUPID price in Canada. VWs in Canada are all overpriced IMO. He says the double clutch is kick ass...can't wait to make a trip to our SJ office in April to drive that thing down the coast...


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

they are all crap im my opinion...........but heck us folks in the stix need them............I installed a car hoist in part of my "shop" a couple of years ago..........there have been at a minimum 2 vehicles a month (conservative estimate) since we put the hoist in.................as for the newer designed vans and sedans...........I've come to the conclusion that the current automobile manufacturers are either lost in space or they build in such a way that the average person has no option than to bring their problems to the dealer to fix, which obviously helps their bottom line...........and on every vehicle there is a new twist to what used to be easily accessable components...............while I am concious of my carbon footprint I currently run a ford and a gmc 4 wd's 1/2 tons (with a preference to GM's for general acessability to used and/or new parts, and simplicity in regards to repair)................IMHO Toyota has just blown a lot of it's credibility..........obviously they have become complacent..........nothing new in the auto industry...............but you would think they would have taken advantage of their market share with the recent problems with the big 3........................these types of things make a joke out of "Quality Control", which has been my most recent profession.............go figure.........(by the way, my shop is geared to friends needing emergency repairs and is non profit............dang)


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

noobcake said:


> The styling of the mazdas look much better though IMO. The big chrome grill on the newer fords looks tacky as hell if you ask me.


Yeah the Mazda's do look more sporty, I'm driving an 05 Mazda3 now. I'm not a fan of the newer mazda3 though, with the big smiley face, and the weird taillights. But Ford's latest generation all have a love/hate look to them, as you were saying about the chrome grill. I think it grows on you. At first I didn't really like the new look of any of the new Fords, F-150, Flex, Fusion. But After driving them, perceptions change...


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

iaresee said:


> That doesn't surprise me. There's a lot of inter-company development now. Shared platforms with different stuff dropped on top of them.
> 
> I'd really like to get a 2010 VW GTi. But man they are WAAAAY overpriced in Canada. Friend just relocated to San Jose and he picked one up, brand new, for $24,500 USD. Same options here and it's $40,000 -- what the hell? That'd be a sweet, sweet commuter car if it weren't for the absolutely STUPID price in Canada. VWs in Canada are all overpriced IMO. He says the double clutch is kick ass...can't wait to make a trip to our SJ office in April to drive that thing down the coast...


Yeah, Chevy and Suzuki are in together on the Aveo/Swift.
And the Pontiac Vibe was part of this Toyota recall.. built on the same platform as the Matrix.

I think that it's not just VW that is overpriced in Canada, with our strong dollar, most cars look alot cheaper in the states. You see commercials on US TV for things like new F-150s starting at $20k. I know a guy who bought a used sportbike last summer in New York cuz it was considerably less too.


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

iaresee said:


> So where's my Focus RS equivalent from Mazda? Sure as heck ain't in the Mazdaspeed lineup...


It would be built on the same platform, but it looks like the Focus RS is using a boosted version of their optional 2.5L engine, while the speed3 is still using the boosted 2.3L.
It would be interesting to see how they compare to each other. The speed3 gets great reviews for it's handling capability.


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2010)

Xanadu said:


> It would be built on the same platform, but it looks like the Focus RS is using a boosted version of their optional 2.5L engine, while the speed3 is still using the boosted 2.3L.
> It would be interesting to see how they compare to each other. The speed3 gets great reviews for it's handling capability.


 It's all about the front end suspension and that front differential. It keeps that 305 bph, 325 ft/lb of torque that engine can produce from ripping the front end off and leaving you sitting there on the pavement wondering where the rest of your car went. The Mazdaspeed3 is nice, but the RS is INSANITY on wheels. That you can drive. Fast.


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

iaresee said:


> It's all about the front end suspension and that front differential. It keeps that 305 bph, 325 ft/lb of torque that engine can produce from ripping the front end off and leaving you sitting there on the pavement wondering where the rest of your car went. The Mazdaspeed3 is nice, but the RS is INSANITY on wheels. That you can drive. Fast.


Yeah it's limited slip. Ford knows their stuff, it must be hard to get traction with such a light car like a focus


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## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I always like to ask people why they make that comment. Care to explain your reasoning? I spent 20 years in the auto biz and like to hear these things.


I have had several various brands of off-shore vehicles that have proved to be very good value. Izuzu, Honda, Mitubishi, and Nissan. All I have enjoyed driving to the 300,000 Km mark or so before have any major problems.

Now the North American garbage in my driveway is nothing but trouble. I have a 1999 Ford Tarus that I have had to rebuild the transmission at under 200.000 km and has something new failing weekly it seems. And, a 2004 Chev Venture that has under 150,000 Km that will soon need an intake manifold gasket replacement similar to the 1986 Jimmy that I owned that cost me $850 two years ago. I am not a victim of any kind of media hype. I am a victim of buying the cars my neighbors build. Yeah, I was a CAW member. It's not the guys building them, it's the morons engineering them.

I had a 1985 Yukon for about a year. Nice truck, but real expensive to maintain. I had replaced the alternator, starter and shocks the first year and then the 4 wheel drive gave out in the winter. It cost $350 to repair. They had to install a new transfer drive and wiring to replace the old system. No. It wasn't a warranty issue, the old system just didn't last.

The old system of engaging the 4 wheel drive? Wax. Yup. Wax! An electrically heated cylinder filled with wax, that when the wax was heated would expand and engage the transfer case. Turn off the heaters, the wax cools, contracts and disengages the transfer case.

I ask you. If you're an engineer... How much pot do you have to smoke before you think that hot wax is a good propulsion system?

I'll trade you both those sorry pieces of North American crap I have sitting in my driveway for a Toyota with a sticky gas pedal any day of the week.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

after living in Japan for years I must say, I`m not surprised that another big corporation has lied about their product...there have been countless scandals involving Japanese companies over the years I`ve been here, and the reaction by the people is usually...aw well. The most recent scandals are right at the top...the current PM says he didn`t know his mother was giving him 1.5 million dollars a month...HE DIDN`T KNOW!...heard of the Bridgestone tire company?...thats his family...then one of his ministers is implicated in a real estate deal that has led to arrests of his staff, but not him though...`least not yet...so it starts at the top and trickles down, concealing money from the gov`t should be the national sport in Japan. I must say I had the same rose colored views of Japan and Japanese people that many westerners have but I`ve done a 180 on that after being here for some time, for a while there was a new scandal every week, no joke...the food industry has been the biggest offender but not alone by any means. So it`s money that is the prime objective here now, no longer turning out a great product and I`ve come to realize the Japanese are no different from anybody else...got your great folks, got your dirtbags.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Ouch man, you would have to bring up the mini vans. The entire line of mini vans from all three companies were IMO junk. The Taurus, sounds like you got a lemon there and anything that was made in the 80's does not count, we already know that it was all junk.

You are 100% correct in your assessment of what went wrong. Bad engineering, lack of listening to the customer, lack of keeping track and paying attention to what the competition was doing. Your experiences are exactly why GM and Chrysler and nearly Ford wnt bankrupt. They made the changes too late. They have to make people like you change their thinking about the products and that is not an easy task at all. I rented a Camaro in Seattle this past summer and man was that a nice vehicle. Not my thing, I am too big for them really but that thing was solid and handling was great. It's the company today that you need to experience. One of the things these companies did was to farm out and engage in joint ventures like they did with the Chevy Aveo. They stick a GM nameplate on it and the thing is made in Korea and is a pile of garbage inside and out. They wanted a cheap car to sell to kids. Big mistake. When it disintegrates on the road it's GM's nameplate that people see. I am no spokeperson for any of them. All I am saying is that they are not the same companies they were even 10 years ago. I have been in every major GM assembly plant in North America and I can tell you that the thinking and planning, engineering and quality have vastly changed since I started hanging around them in 1983


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Ouch man, you would have to bring up the mini vans. The entire line of mini vans from all three companies were IMO junk.


We got lucky with the Plymouth Voyager. 330,000 km and it still had the original gaskets as the head and oil pan had never been removed. Very little rust as we oil undercoated twice a year. The original tires would hydroplane on seagull crap so we almost returned it right after we bought it, but the dealer did a free tire swap and solved the problem. It just kept going so we just kept driving it. Replaced it with the Rav4. Someone bought the old Voyager as is from the dealer or wrecking yard, wherever it went, and subsequently lost a front wheel...I told the dealer the front end was getting sloppy!

There are getting to be fewer and fewer of these minivans on the road, so I guess they've hit their peak. We were luckier than most. 

Peace, Mooh.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I always like to ask people why they make that comment. Care to explain your reasoning? I spent 20 years in the auto biz and like to hear these things.


i don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but since i began driving, i've owned alot of cars. the american cars i've owned that were newer than 1985 couldn't be kept on the road. 
the japanese cars i owned never gave me any problems. the 2 cars i last owned were an 87 trans am, and an 87 tercel. the t/a looked great, but i spent 5 years chasing problems all over the car. the toyota, meanwhile, had a zillion miles on it, but still ran like a sewing machine. i drove it from delaware to toronto in a blizzard that was so bad i had snow washing over the hood comin up the qew. that car never once let me down.

as for bikes, american bikes are low-tech and high priced. chrome don't getcha home. i paid $10,000 for a brand new 1500cc suzuki LC that had 2-tone paint, was fully dressed, and had custom seats and saddle bags. the following summer my older brother spent $10,000 on a motorcycle too. but all he got was an 800cc pushrod v-twin in a bare-bones sportster.

i'm not trying to make any negative comment on the guy who works the line here in north america. but i think japanese give you more for your $$. it seems here lately toyota's quality is comin up way short. but that's not true for the others.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

There ought to be a law. Them that design's it fixes it themselves. You would never have to drop a motor to change spark plugs ever again. The KISS theory was thrown out the window. 

The best vehicles I have owned were the simple ones. Crank windows seldom break etc. Hard to even get simple these days. With all the cross manufacturing going on I wish you could pick a vehicle like on a Chinese menu. 

After the 67' Nova it's been downhill ever since. Simple easy to fix bla bla bla


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

cheezyridr said:


> i don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but since i began driving, i've owned alot of cars. the american cars i've owned that were newer than 1985 couldn't be kept on the road.
> the japanese cars i owned never gave me any problems. the 2 cars i last owned were an 87 trans am, and an 87 tercel. the t/a looked great, but i spent 5 years chasing problems all over the car. the toyota, meanwhile, had a zillion miles on it, but still ran like a sewing machine. i drove it from delaware to toronto in a blizzard that was so bad i had snow washing over the hood comin up the qew. that car never once let me down.
> 
> as for bikes, american bikes are low-tech and high priced. chrome don't getcha home. i paid $10,000 for a brand new 1500cc suzuki LC that had 2-tone paint, was fully dressed, and had custom seats and saddle bags. the following summer my older brother spent $10,000 on a motorcycle too. but all he got was an 800cc pushrod v-twin in a bare-bones sportster.
> ...


Again, I would not attempt to disagree with you at all on ANY North American car built during the 80's they were ALL of questionable quality. I would venture to say even into the early 90's to a degree. I would say the transformation really started to kick into gear in the late 90's. Thats when I really started to see a difference not only in the talk (which they had been doing for years prior) but in the actions they took. Years ago you would go into these plants and it was horendous what was going on. I know from not only viewing it, I was a part of it for my first 10 years in the industry. It's amazing what human beings can do when faced with extinction. The transformation has taken place. You walk into these plants today and it is a new world, ask some of the guys that are still fortunate enough to work in one of them and ask them what its like now vs 10 years ago. They will tell you.

Ask some of the suppliers to these companies what happens now when they screw up vs what happened 10 years ago. They will tell you too. I had to sit in a few meetings myself over issues that were nowhere near a recall and I am telling you we paid for it in skin and a lot of money. They do not tolerate bad quality anymore, it just cannot happen and have the expectation to compete and survive in the global marketplace. I know from a personal basis what goes into a GM and Ford vehicle now, today, and I would not hesitate to buy one at all. Styling? thats another question and one that can only be anwered by the individual customer. 

As Ford would say "drive one"

EDIT: Plus, who can argue with Bobby Orr?


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...my toyota echo is over ten years old, with over a quarter million kms on it. the most reliable vehicle i've ever owned, including a honda civic. my girlfriend's much newer mazda has given her nothing but expensive problems.

i can't imagine NOT buying another toyota.

-dh


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

Just because it's a "Japanese" car doesn't mean it's made in Japan. The Honda plant in Alliston has been making civics for years.

I just replaced my 97 Ford Explorer with 350k km on it, I've had to do front suspension on it, but other than that it was great. The only reason I got rid of it was the door locks started to seize in the cold. I used and abused that truck, and IMO nothing could kill that powertrain.
Now my girlfriend's 01 Nissan Sentra has given us nothing but problems. And because of her car, I'm never buying a Nissan. Ever.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

They all have some problems. The idea that Asian car companies currently have some kind of magical quality dust that they spray on the cars is a manufactured, well orchestrated lie. Began many years ago when it may have meant something. Again, not necessarily knocking any of them. They make some fine vehicles, no question about it. But the idea that they are all wonderful and GM and Ford are junk is pure nonsense. Don't fall for it.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

just for the purpose of clarity i in no way was commenting on the guy working the line. it was my feeling that what they gave him/her to install was often sub-par. i haven't owned any cars from this past decade, so i couldn't comment on them other than to say that suv's and trucks don't really do it for me. i did own a japanese car that was crap, but for the life of me i can't remember the name of it right now. when i think of it i'll post it. it was an early 90's car and the aluminum head was warped from being overheated. i hated that car


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

cheezyridr said:


> just for the purpose of clarity i in no way was commenting on the guy working the line. it was my feeling that what they gave him/her to install was often sub-par. i haven't owned any cars from this past decade, so i couldn't comment on them other than to say that suv's and trucks don't really do it for me. i did own a japanese car that was crap, but for the life of me i can't remember the name of it right now. when i think of it i'll post it. it was an early 90's car and the aluminum head was warped from being overheated. i hated that car


A point well made and to be observed. I am a firm believer that there is no worker, anywhere, that shows up in the morning and say's "I want to make junk today" they do the job with the tools and instruction they are given by management. The people on the lines at GM, Ford and Chrylser had nothing to do with the fall from greatness. Management is 100% to blame for all that happened.


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

cheezyridr said:


> just for the purpose of clarity i in no way was commenting on the guy working the line. it was my feeling that what they gave him/her to install was often sub-par. i haven't owned any cars from this past decade, so i couldn't comment on them other than to say that suv's and trucks don't really do it for me. i did own a japanese car that was crap, but for the life of me i can't remember the name of it right now. when i think of it i'll post it. it was an early 90's car and the aluminum head was warped from being overheated. i hated that car


I did have a cavalier that did the same thing...twice..


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## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> They all have some problems. The idea that Asian car companies currently have some kind of magical quality dust that they spray on the cars is a manufactured, well orchestrated lie. Began many years ago when it may have meant something. Again, not necessarily knocking any of them. They make some fine vehicles, no question about it. But the idea that they are all wonderful and GM and Ford are junk is pure nonsense. Don't fall for it.


It's clear you haven't owned a Honda or a Toyota. If you happen to be fortunate enough to buy new Ford or GM every three years, then you might believe it's hype. You might think your Pontiac is every bit as good as an Accord. But hang onto it for about five years or more as it gets a few miles on it, and watch it drain your wallet as the components fail, the interior falls apart and you hear new rattles daily as it slowly self-destructs. 

Now compare the cost of ownership with the owner of a five year old Camry. You'll get kicking yourself for being stupid enough to drive that piece of crap GM.

Manufactured lie huh? I'll have to use both my angry clenched fists to contain all the repair invoices for my GM. That's a fact!


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

but Fader, your GM cost half as much as your toyota


I guess there's two kinds of people, those who want to buy a cheaper domestic car every five years, and those who want to buy an import and drive it into the ground. Whatever floats your boat.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

EDIT: in response to Ian's post about the RS:

Unless you take it to a track, when will you actually get to go that fast though?

I am now the proud 2nd owner of a 1996 toyota camry LE. My Dad and his mechanic friend who also looked it over told me that the car is in great condition for it's age, and that I need to baby it. They also said they paid top dollar since it's in good condition (yes I am spoiled, I'm aware of it). I'm not *quite* babying it (gotta get out of the heavy foot mindset!), however I would like to keep it in tip-top condition as it's My Car.

The 1990 camry I used to drive at home (family car, my grandfather was 1st owner) didn't have any strut problems.. this one's struts are going, that's $500 at some point. New tires, that's any car - maybe another $500? this coming winter. Something was disconnected so my check engine light is on - I was reassured that it's a small part that would need to be replaced to the tune of around $1000, so it's just disconnected and doesn't affect the mileage much when highway driving. I think the fact that it idles a bit high after sitting all day and the fact that the steering wheel makes a sound when nearly at the end of its travel has more to do with the cold then anything else.

Either way, my car needs a wash, gas, eventually a new rad, winter tires and rear struts, but I'll be damned if that thing doesn't purr and get me around 

I hope to make my next car my mom's 07 Accord, unless something happens to it - that car has already seen a new windshield (flying rocks, love 'em) and bumper repairs in it's short 2 years with us. I like to think my brother won't go too hard on it, but he'll be the last one around to drive it haha.

Cars: I don't like them, but they are a necessary evil.


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

Budda said:


> Unless you take it to a track, when will you actually get to go that fast though?
> 
> *should put his camry on the track.. it's a 96*


which are you talking about?


I've been pretty quick on the highway...


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## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

Xanadu said:


> but Fader, your GM cost half as much as your toyota
> 
> 
> I guess there's two kinds of people, those who want to buy a cheaper domestic car every five years, and those who want to buy an import and drive it into the ground. Whatever floats your boat.


You can't bring price in to the dicussion.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

He's right about there being 2 types though:

Buy fairly new, drive for as long as financially possible

Buy older and used, for as long as financially possible

Buy new, swap out every 4-5 years


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2010)

Budda said:


> EDIT: in response to Ian's post about the RS:
> 
> Unless you take it to a track, when will you actually get to go that fast though?


It's not so much about top speed, more about how quickly I can get to the legal limit. 

And if you think the RS if fast: dude, you should see the G8 with the V8 in it. Like I said: it gives an M5 a run for its money. Without turbo charging it can't quite catch it over the 1/4 mile, but with turbo's on it it'll keep pace. And at almost 1/4 of the cost. Who wouldn't want that if not for bragging rights? 



> I am now the proud 2nd owner of a 1996 toyota camry LE. My Dad and his mechanic friend who also looked it over told me that the car is in great condition for it's age, and that I need to baby it. They also said they paid top dollar since it's in good condition (yes I am spoiled, I'm aware of it). I'm not *quite* babying it (gotta get out of the heavy foot mindset!), however I would like to keep it in tip-top condition as it's My Car.


My first car in my university years was an '89 Camry LE. Drove it until 250,000 kms. Drove the hell out of it. Sucked to sell it. I think I got $500 for it. Paid the rent for 15 days in Toronto.


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

iaresee said:


> It's not so much about top speed, more about how quickly I can get to the legal limit.


what's your current 0-50km/h time ;-)


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2010)

Xanadu said:


> what's your current 0-50km/h time ;-)


In my Pathfinder??? It's measured in tens of seconds I'll tell you that much!


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Fader said:


> It's clear you haven't owned a Honda or a Toyota. If you happen to be fortunate enough to buy new Ford or GM every three years, then you might believe it's hype. You might think your Pontiac is every bit as good as an Accord. But hang onto it for about five years or more as it gets a few miles on it, and watch it drain your wallet as the components fail, the interior falls apart and you hear new rattles daily as it slowly self-destructs.
> 
> Now compare the cost of ownership with the owner of a five year old Camry. You'll get kicking yourself for being stupid enough to drive that piece of crap GM.
> 
> Manufactured lie huh? I'll have to use both my angry clenched fists to contain all the repair invoices for my GM. That's a fact!


Thats pure nonsense. If you truly beleive that the components that are in a GM or Ford were designed to self destruct in 3-5 years and that the components in a Honda were not then you need to do some research. The first thing you need to discover is theat most of the components in all of them are made by the same companies, they just stamp the OEM's name on it. There are different "levels" of the components. ie you cannot expect to get the same braking system (rotors, calipers etc) in a car you paid $12,000 for and one that cost $30,000

There are two types of exhaust manifolds used in passenger vehicles. One is cast iron the other is fabricated. Take a look under your hood and if its cast iron, chances are about 80% that the company I used to work for made it, I dont care if its a Honda or a Ford. If it's a tube then most likely Faurecia made it. Same goes for the majority of the components found in any vehicle running the roads. If it's not a Vette or some other kind of specialized low volume car it has standard components in it made by one of the major suppliers. Honda and Toyota dont have the Honda and Toyota windshield manufacturing company located out back of the assembly plant. They buy them from the same place everyone else does.

Where they made the gains and where the Big 3 screwed up was in the design and assembly of the components. Also, up until the mid 90's they still manufactured many of there own components and the quality was not good. They used to make brake rotors back in the 80's that had more holes in them then swiss cheese. They shut down and farmed out all those manufacturing jobs long ago. They are now made by companies that specialize it individual parts and components. That solved the majority of their quality problems. That was a lesson they learned from the Japanese. 

So again, what I am saying is that they are not the same companies that they were. I know its hard to shake the past horrors but what they are putting out on the streets today is as good as anyone in the world.


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

Fader said:


> You can't bring price in to the dicussion.


You did...



Fader said:


> Now compare the cost of ownership with the owner of a five year old Camry. You'll get kicking yourself for being stupid enough to drive that piece of crap GM.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> They all have some problems. The idea that Asian car companies currently have some kind of magical quality dust that they spray on the cars is a manufactured, well orchestrated lie. Began many years ago when it may have meant something. Again, not necessarily knocking any of them. They make some fine vehicles, no question about it. But the idea that they are all wonderful and GM and Ford are junk is pure nonsense. Don't fall for it.


The re-sale value on the Asian cars is the clear advantage, that this is lilkely based on half-truths is another matter.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

iaresee said:


> It's not so much about top speed, more about how quickly I can get to the legal limit.


If thats your concern, the RS and G8 are too slow for you, you need a sport bike.............


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Rugburn said:


> The re-sale value on the Asian cars is the clear advantage, that this is lilkely based on half-truths is another matter.


Thats very true and it is propped up by a falsehood. But that will change as time goes on. IMO the whole auto industry, the success and failures can be traced back if you look hard at it. For those of us that were on the inside it seemed very clear. To the general public that just wants a reliable car for a good price, they dont see it the same way and I cant really blame them. They dont have to get involved in it to those levels. But here is one thing that has surely changed and that has made it so very possible for car companies to get away with what the Japanese did. Let's be clear, all they did was take an American design, tear it apart and rebuild it. 

One of the biggest issues faced by the former big three is that not many people under the age of 45 today could tell you where a oil dip stick is or what it even is. Remember the days when your dad used to take you out to show you how to replace a fan belt or maybe flush the rad or some other task that people simply dont do anymore? Part of that is due to the design of the engines themselves. I remember we had an old Dodge Ram Charger that I could actually climb up and sit inside the engine compartment if I needed to do something on it. They took all that way from people with the tight compartments and covers and computers. So it comes as no surprise to me that most people dont know anything about components or the possible difference between what in one car vs the other. They think "its a car". My kids will get into a car and they have no idea whatsover what makes it go, stop, turn etc. They still dont understand the concept of oil and what it means to a car. They only know its something the old man always asks them if they have changed lately. Rotating tires? Forget it.

So what does that do? Well it makes the whole car selling industry all about what it looks like and how turned on you get when you look at it. There are not even that many power freaks around anymore so speed is not really a big thing. Those buyers normally know what a V6 is though. The last question, if it is even asked, by anyone under the age of 30 today is "whats under the hood?" or for that matter anything past "what color does it come in"?

The car sellers love these kinds of buyers. In fact, the last few times I even went into a dealership and asked the guy "where is this car made" he had no idea whatsover and seemed to care less. The one dude at the Chevy dealership had no idea that the Aveo was made in Korea. None. They dont bother to train these people because thats not whats selling the cars today. It's the looks and the price. But I would rather have a V8 powerplant with rear wheel drive that sounds like it has a little balls rather than one of these sewing machines produced today.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Ian, I'm not very on top of the automotive world, I haven't even watched Speed on TV in years. I look at the Wheels section of the Star when I'm visiting my grandparents hehe. I have a friend with a G8, I don't think his is the V8 model. One of my online friends in the states just got herself a G8 as well. They're gorgeous cars, I usually see a gunmetal grey one once or twice a week, and I just want to trade haha.

I personally don't know much about what makes my car go, and I lack the interest to really learn - I'd like to be able to fix my toys myself (amps, guitars, cars, bikes), but I'm one of the many people who doesn't mind paying someone to do it for me.

I do know where the dipstick on my car is, and I have put oil in it - GC's post also made me wonder when my tires were last rotated.

There's a lot to having your own vehicle that I don't know or fully understand, and I'm not sure how fast I will learn.

Maybe I should ditch all this "car" stuff and take my dad's 87 Honda 750 Interceptor out instead (once I get my M1, of course)


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Budda said:


> Ian, I'm not very on top of the automotive world, I haven't even watched Speed on TV in years. I look at the Wheels section of the Star when I'm visiting my grandparents hehe. I have a friend with a G8, I don't think his is the V8 model. One of my online friends in the states just got herself a G8 as well. They're gorgeous cars, I usually see a gunmetal grey one once or twice a week, and I just want to trade haha.
> 
> I personally don't know much about what makes my car go, and I lack the interest to really learn - I'd like to be able to fix my toys myself (amps, guitars, cars, bikes), but I'm one of the many people who doesn't mind paying someone to do it for me.
> 
> ...


Thats OK Budda, dont feel bad. The fact is that today's vehicles can really t go a long way on just regular maintainance and why bother changing your own oil, I just swing into the jiffy lube and out of there in 15 minutes. But, it can never hurt to have an understanding of the general principles of what makes and automoblile run. It will serve you someday without a doubt. More for troubleshooting than anything. There will come a day when you find yourself on the side of the road or at the shopping mall and that car wont start or better yet it starts to make that noise when you are driving it. That screaching noise when you apply your brakes was designed in for a reason. Best to know why.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I like to have at least a general working knowledge of things I use for extended periods of time, and unfortunately I am really lacking in the cars area. I had to ask my friend to help me check the air pressure in my tires, and another friend to help me out the first time I put oil into our old camry - I had the right idea, pretty much knew what to do, but wanted someone around to be sure.

It concerns me that I'm not 100% sure that I properly remember how to take the tire off of a car. So many things to learn! It's not always easy to retain the knowledge though, especially when there isn't as much interest.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2010)

Accept2 said:


> If thats your concern, the RS and G8 are too slow for you, you need a sport bike.............


Why yes, yes I DO need a sport bike. Actually drooling over a co-workers Aprilia this past summer.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2010)

Budda: the G8 is amazing car for not much money. Even the V6 is fun.


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Why yes, yes I DO need a sport bike. Actually drooling over a co-workers Aprilia this past summer.


I've got a suzuki GS500F, looks like a sportbike, but it's not really. And even it is pretty quick


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Budda said:


> I like to have at least a general working knowledge of things I use for extended periods of time, and unfortunately I am really lacking in the cars area. I had to ask my friend to help me check the air pressure in my tires, and another friend to help me out the first time I put oil into our old camry - I had the right idea, pretty much knew what to do, but wanted someone around to be sure.
> 
> It concerns me that I'm not 100% sure that I properly remember how to take the tire off of a car. So many things to learn! It's not always easy to retain the knowledge though, especially when there isn't as much interest.


Stuff like tire changing you should learn. There will be more than one time in your life that you will need to do it. I had to drive out to Burlington one night becuase my son blew a tire in the middle of the winter and there he sat on the side of the highway freezing and not knowing the first thing to do. Cell phones are great but no need to call dad all the time. A tire change is a 15-20 minute job at best. Come summer just pull it out in the driveway and go through the gear and maybe even jack it up and take the tire off. Valuable stuff to learn. I made him do the whole job though while I watched


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## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

Xanadu said:


> You did...


Indeed I did. I was refering to the cost of repairs not the purchase price.


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## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> There are different "levels" of the components. ie you cannot expect to get the same braking system (rotors, calipers etc) in a car you paid $12,000 for and one that cost $30,000


I agree. There are GM level parts and Toyota level parts. You have just proved my point. They are not the same quality. Thank-you Scott.

I am speaking from personal experience. When the real wheel was falling off my 2004 Venture at 87,000 km, I paid $350 to replace a GM wheel bearing not a Toyota wheel bearing.

And you can keep on repeating yourself about how great the quality of GM and Ford are right now, it's speculation on your part. We aren't going to know for sure until they get a few miles on them are we?

How about we wait three to five years and then we pick up a copy of Consumer Reports and compare the findings.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

My biggest beef with GM or Ford isn't the quality (notice I left Chrysler out). It's the resale value. I've driven GM's most of my life and have had good luck, service wise, but by the time I trade one in after 4-5 years they are almost worthless. 

I now have a 4 year old Acura TL, and it is probably still worth at least half what I paid for it. My wife just bought a Pontiac G6 GXP (the end of an era) and I must say I like driving it every bit as much as the Acura, if not more. Great car, but I'll bet in five years it will only be worth $5k on a trade in.


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2010)

Xanadu said:


> I've got a suzuki GS500F, looks like a sportbike, but it's not really. And even it is pretty quick


He's got a Shiver:










Unfortunately with a kid here, another on the way I'm a long way from owing a vehicle I can only drive 5 months of the year. At best.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Fader said:


> I agree. There are GM level parts and Toyota level parts. You have just proved my point. They are not the same quality. Thank-you Scott.
> 
> I am speaking from personal experience. When the real wheel was falling off my 2004 Venture at 87,000 km, I paid $350 to replace a GM wheel bearing not a Toyota wheel bearing.
> 
> ...


I am always amazed when I read stuff like this. A six year old car with 87,000 kms has to have a $350 repair. Oh, the horror. 

You don't think that doesn't happen to import cars?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Fader said:


> I agree. There are GM level parts and Toyota level parts. You have just proved my point. They are not the same quality. Thank-you Scott.
> 
> I am speaking from personal experience. When the real wheel was falling off my 2004 Venture at 87,000 km, I paid $350 to replace a GM wheel bearing not a Toyota wheel bearing.
> 
> ...


I am speaking from personal experience as well. Not only on a personal level but on a professional level. I have sat in GM design meetings, Ford design meetings, Honda design meetings, Susuki, Toyota, Audi, Holden and more. None of them have any magical foo foo dust that the others have not discovered yet. If Honda hits on a winning design for a fuel injector the others buy a few, tear it apart and copy it. Read what I am typing up there and stop pulling one sentance out of it. The difference was, and the ONLY difference was the implementation of the designs. The Japanese had the advantage of getting into the business in the late 60's and could build the plants and train the people (a different culture and work ethic) then what was taking place in North America. It took the big three almost 20 years to stop doing things the way they always had in the past. They had to work within collective agreements and within communities that had thousands of people depending on them for a living. That 20m year period, while they were trying to catch up and change was what killed them. While they were doing that the Asian companies moved in and took over. I will say this again, I have nothing against them, I think competition is good for everyone and I have nothing against any of the imports. They make some very fine vehicles and took some great ideas from the American car masters and made them even better. No question about it. I am not pro North American in any way. What I do say and will say is that since around 1999 the US Car companies and especially Ford have gotten their acts together in a big time way. 

They hurt themselves and there is nobody to blame but them for what happened. But to say they are the same old companies as they once were is wrong and a diservice to the people that are churning them out.

BTW: Its not speculation. Do you not think that all the car companies did not have warranty data on all the rest of them. I used to see those reports all the time. I would not buy a refrigerator based on a Consumer Reports article let alone a car.


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Unfortunately with a kid here, another on the way I'm a long way from owing a vehicle I can only drive 5 months of the year. At best.


Yeah, if that.. Last summer I rode it for maybe 3 months, with all the rain in july..


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i do as much of my own work as possible on cars i own. i've built up a few muscle cars over the years, and i do what i can without a diagnostic computer and an alignment rack. (for the later cars i've had) i don't do transmissions just because i never had the space and equipment. i agree that even some parts on japanese cars were crap, my old tercel was contantly needed calipers rebuilt. they just didn't hold up. i mighta had better luck if i replaced the whole thing istead of rebuilding them. most of the gm cars i've had just wouldn't stay fixed. they were old and i continually chased problems around the car. the old fords i had (really old) with the non-integral power stearing and the goofy alignment set ups were a nite mare. you could not keep the car aligned after hitting a few potholes. i will say this about the old fords though. they had the best set up for glass of any car. the glass was easy to change and any monkey could swap a windshield or back glass without having a leak. i don't know why they don't still do it like that anymore.


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## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

Sure the big three have improved. I can't deny that. But they have a long way to go to catch up.

Once a year in the spring sometime, Consumer Reports magazine publishes a Used Car Review Issue. It's the most comprehensive reliability ratings available to consumers. Every year Consumer Reports conducts a survey of their five million magazine and online subscribers, asking about any serious problems they've had with their vehicles over the previous twelve months. They use this information to publish detailed reliability history charts on almost 300 different models.

It's no surprise that the only reliable GM models are joint ventures with Toyota and the only reliable Fords are joint ventures with Mazda.

It comes right from where the rubber hits the road. I am surprised you would dismiss it so quickly. 

BTW; they are very accurate with appliances too.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Stuff like tire changing you should learn. There will be more than one time in your life that you will need to do it. I had to drive out to Burlington one night becuase my son blew a tire in the middle of the winter and there he sat on the side of the highway freezing and not knowing the first thing to do. Cell phones are great but no need to call dad all the time. A tire change is a 15-20 minute job at best. Come summer just pull it out in the driveway and go through the gear and maybe even jack it up and take the tire off. Valuable stuff to learn. I made him do the whole job though while I watched


This is one of the reasons I like the German licensing system. It may take alot longer, its way more expensive, but at least changing your tire is taught early on in. Here they pretty well just take your money, hand you your licence. If you dont know how to change your tire, or control a skid on ice, that irrelevant. Someone else will do those things for you.........


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Fader said:


> Sure the big three have improved. I can't deny that. But they have a long way to go to catch up.
> 
> Once a year in the spring sometime, Consumer Reports magazine publishes a Used Car Review Issue. It's the most comprehensive reliability ratings available to consumers. Every year Consumer Reports conducts a survey of their five million magazine and online subscribers, asking about any serious problems they've had with their vehicles over the previous twelve months. They use this information to publish detailed reliability history charts on almost 300 different models.
> 
> ...


.......Or they forget what buyers who dont have a clue what their talking about say, and face reality. 

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/29/consumer-reports-yanks-recommended-status-on-recalled-toyotas/

JD Power and the others rely on what people say rather than investigate further, to find that alot of these complaints are made by fools who dont understand how their car works............


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

There is no joint venture with Toyota, or Susuki for that matter anymore. Toyota pulled out of California and GM just bought out Susuki in Ingersoll.

Have to stop living in the past. Thats the secret. We can sit around telling old tales all day. I can remember back to Honda's days when they had absolutely the worst sheet metal of all time. Many of you will remember those years. Every Honda on the road essentially disintegrated after two seasons in the snow and salt. They were the worst vehicles ever made in terms of body rust. Hyundai was an absolute joke when they entered the market. Total and complete junk. Honda solved the rust issue and Hyundai solved a lot of their issues. same goes for everyone else. But if you happened to be one of the poor slobs that owned a car that disintegrated after two years than it probably left a bad taste in your mouth. GM and Ford left a lot of foul tasting stuff around for a lot of years. Tough to recapture people after that


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2010)

@GC: My mom owned a Pony in the 80' s and it was truly terrible. But I was serously considering an Elantra Touring instead of putting new struts and front rotors on my 01 Pathfinder. You're absolutely right when you say things change. The Pony and the Elantra Touring might as well be made by different companies.


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## BLUES FAN (Jul 25, 2007)

*They all have lemons as far as Im concerned.*

Yes maybe some of the foriegn cars have been better quality then the Big three over the last few years but I know people from both ends of the spectrum that have had foreign and North American cars.I have heard complaints from both sides.

I know one thing and if anyone should know any different correct me on this.Toyota and Honda employ lots of Canadians and give them a very good living but from what I know other then the few dealerships and employees hired there HYUNDIA has no assembly or parts plants here .They refuse to let us sell cars overthere so why is our government allowing them to sell cars here (I have no idea). I think everyone in Canada and US for that matter should boycott HYUNDIA and not give them one cent of our hard earned money.

Thanks for letting me vent.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

They all have their ploblems man. Honda has 646,000 vehicles on recall as well. Like I said before, they are all the same now. None any better than the other


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...i'm curious to see if toyota will be brought down by greedy, opportunistic lawyers and their greedy, opportunistic clients.

-dh


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Now they have bad brakes too. Another recall pending. Doom and gloom, lies and deceit. Welcome to the world of automotive.

[YOUTUBE]jt0RrUTL2tY[/YOUTUBE]


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...i anticipate an absolute tsunami of conpiracy theories, from the aliens abducted me in a toyota variety to the toyota execs are members of the anteaters underground variety. most of us, hopefully, will be happy to wait until all the facts are in before _rushing_ to judgement...


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...i anticipate an absolute tsunami of conpiracy theories, from the aliens abducted me in a toyota variety to the toyota execs are members of the anteaters underground variety. most of us, hopefully, will be happy to wait until all the facts are in before _rushing_ to judgement...


There was an article in the Star yesterday that had a bit of a conspiracy theory vibe to it about this issue.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

BLUES FAN said:


> Yes maybe some of the foriegn cars have been better quality then the Big three over the last few years but I know people from both ends of the spectrum that have had foreign and North American cars.I have heard complaints from both sides.
> 
> I know one thing and if anyone should know any different correct me on this.Toyota and Honda employ lots of Canadians and give them a very good living but from what I know other then the few dealerships and employees hired there HYUNDIA has no assembly or parts plants here .They refuse to let us sell cars overthere so why is our government allowing them to sell cars here (I have no idea). I think everyone in Canada and US for that matter should boycott HYUNDIA and not give them one cent of our hard earned money.
> 
> Thanks for letting me vent.


I am a Hyundai owner and I love my car. I love the service I get from them. Tell the domestic companies/dealerships to give me something comparable and I will glady consider their product next time I am shopping. When I was last car shopping, they couldn't. 

I drive what is the best value for me. Plain and simple. I don't care what name is on the car or what other people think of it. I need my car to make a living, and I need one and I can buy and still afford to live.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

david henman said:


> ...i anticipate an absolute tsunami of conpiracy theories, from the aliens abducted me in a toyota variety to the toyota execs are members of the anteaters underground variety. most of us, hopefully, will be happy to wait until all the facts are in before _rushing_ to judgement...


Or until you run into a tree with your Prius, whichever comes first.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

lies and deception, the "never mind" attitude, got a problem in Japan?...pretend it doesn`t exist and hope it goes away. Sounds like business as usual to me.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I have seen a few meltdowns in my time but this one is brutal.



> TOKYO (AP) - Toyota is looking into possible power steering problems with the hot-selling Corolla subcompact while its president said Wednesday he won't be attending the U.S. Congressional hearing on the automaker's safety lapses.
> 
> "I trust that our officials in the U.S. will amply answer the questions," Toyota Motor Corp. President Akio Toyoda told reporters. "We are sending the best people to the hearing, and I hope to back up the efforts from headquarters."
> 
> ...


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I smell lots of lawsuits here. I guess just about anyone can make a claim now, real or not. Where money is involved anything is possible

[video=youtube;EQ0aVipFR34]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ0aVipFR34&feature=player_embedded[/video]


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