# Mods To Vintage Traynors?



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

I know nothing about amp mods, electronics, etc. so forgive me if any of these are stupid questions.

I was wondering about mods to vintage Traynors (YBA1s, YGM3s, etc.). You always read about them being modded to Plexi specs, but what other options are there?

Can they easily be modded to Bassman specs? One would assume so. What about a JTM45 type Marshall rather than a later Plexi type? And what about Blackface/Silverface Fenders like the Deluxe Reverb?

Can they be modded to be the same as, or similar to, anything else such as Vox, Orange, etc.?

I am thinking of grabbing a vintage Traynor and having it modded, but do not want to go the typical Plexi mod route as I simply cannot make that style of Marshall sound good (I love them when others play them, but I cannot make them sound good).

I just wanted to get some idea of the possibilities before taking the plunge.


----------



## Mikev7305 (Jan 6, 2020)

It really depends on what your after. I have a few vintage traynors and each one is modded in a different direction. For instance, my bassmaster is just tweaked a bit to be more in the guitar frequency range, with a lot of stuff staying stock. I have two yba-2 bassmates and each one is quite different from the other. One is closest to a tweed deluxe, but with my own minor tweaks. The other is closer to a marshall circuit. What are you looking to end up with?


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Mikev7305 said:


> It really depends on what your after. I have a few vintage traynors and each one is modded in a different direction. For instance, my bassmaster is just tweaked a bit to be more in the guitar frequency range, with a lot of stuff staying stock. I have two yba-2 bassmates and each one is quite different from the other. One is closest to a tweed deluxe, but with my own minor tweaks. The other is closer to a marshall circuit. What are you looking to end up with?



Not sure yet to be honest. As mentioned, I cannot make Marshalls sound good so I was thinking some sort of Fender (Bassman, Blackface, ?). I do like Orange amps though, so if a Traynor could be modded towards a vintage Orange I would be happy to go in that direction.


----------



## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

What model of Orange amps do you prefer?


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

The earliest bassmasters are VERY close to a tweed bassman or jtm 45 in stock form. Honestly, just few value changes on a couple of components but these are not necessary in any way. World class amps.

The other models typically 'pay homage' to other circuits too but all the Traynors have their own special flavour. If you want to get into some really high gain though, it is best to use a pedal with them rather than completely redesign the circuit.

TG


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Paul Running said:


> What model of Orange amps do you prefer?


I like the old OR50 and OR100. For more modern ones I like the AD30 which is a very vintage sounding amp.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

traynor_garnet said:


> The earliest bassmasters are VERY close to a tweed bassman or jtm 45 in stock form. Honestly, just few value changes on a couple of components but these are not necessary in any way. World class amps.



Are the later Bassmasters still quite close to those circuits. or did they change significantly?





> The other models typically 'pay homage' to other circuits too but all the Traynors have their own special flavour.



What would you say the YGM3 pays homage to?





> If you want to get into some really high gain though, it is best to use a pedal with them rather than completely redesign the circuit.



I don't want really high gain. Even the Orange amps that I like are vintage ones, or vintage styled ones, that have far less gain than their modern models do.


----------



## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

The early Orange models like the OR50 and 100 were designs by Mat Mathias and Tony Emerson of MATAMP (Mat and Tony amplifiers). They would have been designing about the same time that Pete Traynor was designing the Dynabass and YBA-1. Maybe they communicated with each other about amplifier components. If the output transformers were closely matched in specs, there would be similarities in audio performance. Mr. Emerson was an audiophile and dug Hi-Fi...ultralinear caught his eye. Orange used a variable, high-pass filter in many of their designs....a passive unit that Traynor did not use. Here is a sample used in the input stage of a GRO-100:








MATAMP favoured quad EL34s in the output stage. Mr. Traynor used duels...quads came later in models other than the YBAs.
The early model YBAs are a dream to work on...lots of room. I don't believe that you will have any problem having a tech or hobbyist to help you out.


----------



## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

I've modded a few YBA-1's to JCM800 spec. I find they sound better than the actual JCM800. IMHO.


----------



## MetalTele79 (Jul 20, 2020)

I remember seeing these two for sale here last year...

Moded 70s Traynors Link 


From the videos in the sale thread I was very impressed by what could be done.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

nonreverb said:


> I've modded a few YBA-1's to JCM800 spec. I find they sound better than the actual JCM800. IMHO.



I forget where I read it, but somewhere I saw a post stating that "the best Marshall I ever heard was an old Traynor". I don't doubt that for a second. This one sounds awesome:







There is another video, maybe by the same guy, in which the Traynor absolutely nails the tone from the first Ratt album but that video is now set to private so we can't see it.


----------



## Mikev7305 (Jan 6, 2020)

There's so much info online about modding a yba-1 into many things. It honestly doesn't need anything though, it rocks on its own. The early yba-2 is my favorite to mess with though because it's such a simple circuit to begin with. You could make it close to an ac15, it's very close to a matchless spitfire, tweed deluxe like I said earlier. All these are no more than like 4-5 component changes. Less than $15. The earlier ones with 6V6 are cathode biased with no negative feedback so they are my favorite.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

So if I am going to go down this route and have a Traynor modded, I take it I should grab a YBA1 or YBA2 and not bother with a YGM3?


----------



## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

colchar said:


> So if I am going to go down this route and have a Traynor modded, I take it I should grab a YBA1 or YBA2 and not bother with a YGM3?


If your attracted to an EL84 amp, you may like the YGM...I take it your still on original (non-reissues') designs & components.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Paul Running said:


> If your attracted to an EL84 amp, you may like the YGM...I take it your still on original (non-reissues') designs & components.



I have very little knowledge of amps or electronics, so have no idea if I should be looking at EL84 amps, EL34 amps, or something else. I don't even know if I should be looking at heads exclusively, or if combos are an option too. I'm hoping the folks here who are knowledgeable can give me info, which will inform my decision about which amp (or amps 🤣 ) to purchase and which direction I should go with mods.

That being said, I currently own a YGM-3 reissue which is all stock.


----------



## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

colchar said:


> I currently own a YGM-3 reissue which is all stock.


The re-issues go by the exact same schematic. I have never audio compared the two.
They are well-designed amps IMO.


----------



## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I thought you were supposed to feed your Traynor with a Ganet Herzog...lol.


----------



## Mikev7305 (Jan 6, 2020)

colchar said:


> So if I am going to go down this route and have a Traynor modded, I take it I should grab a YBA1 or YBA2 and not bother with a YGM3?


I also had a ygm-3 as my first learning experience in modding. I did the pat furlan mods (they are easy to find on YouTube) and that's all it needed really. It's a bit more complex of an amp to understand as your first modding platform. I honestly should have never got rid of it. Its probably the closest to a deluxe reverb tonewise in it's stock form. 

If people keep talking about modding more traynors I might end up back on the hunt for more (I dont need more) so if everyone could just stop it that would be great


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Paul Running said:


> The re-issues go by the exact same schematic. I have never audio compared the two.
> They are well-designed amps IMO.


Yeah I really like the reissue. A bit loud for home use, but that can be worked around.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Mikev7305 said:


> I also had a ygm-3 as my first learning experience in modding. I did the pat furlan mods (they are easy to find on YouTube) and that's all it needed really. It's a bit more complex of an amp to understand as your first modding platform. I honestly should have never got rid of it. Its probably the closest to a deluxe reverb tonewise in it's stock form.
> 
> If people keep talking about modding more traynors I might end up back on the hunt for more (I dont need more) so if everyone could just stop it that would be great



I would have someone else do the mods. I am useless with stuff like that so would kill myself or burn down the neighborhood. Actually, I'd probably do both.

I have a friend who does amp repairs and mods so I can get him to do the work. He is busy with his real job and house repairs right now, so if he isn't free when I am ready to do this I will hire someone else. Anyone in this thread in the GTA???


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

colchar said:


> I'm hoping the folks here who are knowledgeable can give me info, which will inform my decision about which amp (or amps 🤣 ) to purchase and which direction I should go with mods.


Take a road trip out to @Frenchy99 and play through all of his? lol


Mikev7305 said:


> If people keep talking about modding more traynors I might end up back on the hunt for more (I dont need more) so if everyone could just stop it that would be great


Good luck finding them. I thought that frenchy99 has them all by now.


----------



## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

I'm not an expert but that won't stop me from having an opinion...haha..
The YBA1 is simpler because if has no tremolo or reverb. It's just an amp with tone controlls. It also has a very similar schematic to the bassman or marshall jtm45 so as others have said it can easily be modded into one of those with minor changes. The potentiometer values are different, apparently, and that could be the most time consuming thing to change.

Have you thought of a Cieratone kit?


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

colchar said:


> Are the later Bassmasters still quite close to those circuits. or did they change significantly?


They slowly changed over time, but not night and day. But if you want a bassman or jtm 45 get the earliest one you can find.




> What would you say the YGM3 pays homage to?


I guess a deluxe reverb but it’s certainly not a clone.




> I don't want really high gain. Even the Orange amps that I like are vintage ones, or vintage styled ones, that have far less gain than their modern models do.


That’s cool. A lot of guys do ‘high gain’ mods and really end up destroying nice vintage amps for no reason (they would be better off buying a high gain amp to start with).

TG


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

tomee2 said:


> I'm not an expert but that won't stop me from having an opinion...haha..
> The YBA1 is simpler because if has no tremolo or reverb. It's just an amp with tone controlls. It also has a very similar schematic to the bassman or marshall jtm45 so as others have said it can easily be modded into one of those with minor changes. The potentiometer values are different, apparently, and that could be the most time consuming thing to change.


One thing I am thinking might be cool would be to have a 2x12 Traynor combo modded to be a Bluesbreaker, but I am not sure any of their 2x12 combos were anywhere close to the JTM45 circuit in the Bluesbreaker. Probably _much_ easier to have one of the YBA heads modded to JTM45 specs.




> Have you thought of a Cieratone kit?


Briefly, but I think it would be much more cost effective to have a vintage Traynor modded.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

traynor_garnet said:


> They slowly changed over time, but not night and day. But if you want a bassman or jtm 45 get the earliest one you can find.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah I'm definitely not a high gain guy. I far prefer bluesy, classic rock edge of breakup type sounds. As much as I love '80s metal, if I want to fart around playing stuff like _Living After Midnight_ or _Rock You Like a Hurricane_ I'll plug in a pedal.


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

colchar said:


> Yeah I'm definitely not a high gain guy. I far prefer bluesy, classic rock edge of breakup type sounds. As much as I love '80s metal, if I want to fart around playing stuff like _Living After Midnight_ or _Rock You Like a Hurricane_ I'll plug in a pedal.


Perfect amp for that! When I want to do higher gain stuff I kick on my Rat. If you get a YBA-1 the mids control can really change the amp. Dial the mids way down with a Strat if you want gorgeous cleans, crank up the mids and grab your Les Paul for some amazing classic rock dirt. 

The only 2x12 combo I know of is the YGL-3 but that is more of a Twin type of amp. You could go head and 2x12 cab or have a combo made for you head chassis. 

TG


----------



## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

colchar said:


> Briefly, but I think it would be much more cost effective to have a vintage Traynor modded.


A kit would provide an opportunity to introduce you to amp customizing...many of us started that way. I agree with the cost effectivity in the short run however, in the long run, it will add up.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Paul Running said:


> The early Orange models like the OR50 and 100 were designs by Mat Mathias and Tony Emerson of MATAMP (Mat and Tony amplifiers). They would have been designing about the same time that Pete Traynor was designing the Dynabass and YBA-1. Maybe they communicated with each other about amplifier components. If the output transformers were closely matched in specs, there would be similarities in audio performance. Mr. Emerson was an audiophile and dug Hi-Fi...ultralinear caught his eye. Orange used a variable, high-pass filter in many of their designs....a passive unit that Traynor did not use. Here is a sample used in the input stage of a GRO-100:
> View attachment 383860
> 
> MATAMP favoured quad EL34s in the output stage. Mr. Traynor used duels...quads came later in models other than the YBAs.
> The early model YBAs are a dream to work on...lots of room. I don't believe that you will have any problem having a tech or hobbyist to help you out.


I have never had the pleasure to see, nevermind try, some old Oranges, but this is super interesting and I was not aware. was never too impressed by modern ones and never really looked back at older ones due to unobtanium

I was actually just musing the other day in some other thread that a multi-select HPF set pretty low (from the rumble range, to just past the lowest fundamentals of bass/guitar) on an amp front end would be such a useful tool (and really help the preamp stay in the optimal zone because that unnecessary bass really eats up headroom and not in a good way - I've not met a tube amp that didn't struggle with a Gibson EB bass equipped with a 30KOhm Mudbucker). Also just for tone control reasons it makes the most sense to cut bass before v1 - lose the mud right at the beginning, and get a nice cut-through tone.

Gonna have to check these out.


----------



## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Paul Running said:


> The early Orange models like the OR50 and 100 were designs by Mat Mathias and Tony Emerson of MATAMP (Mat and Tony amplifiers). They would have been designing about the same time that Pete Traynor was designing the Dynabass and YBA-1. Maybe they communicated with each other about amplifier components. If the output transformers were closely matched in specs, there would be similarities in audio performance. Mr. Emerson was an audiophile and dug Hi-Fi...ultralinear caught his eye. Orange used a variable, high-pass filter in many of their designs....a passive unit that Traynor did not use. Here is a sample used in the input stage of a GRO-100:
> View attachment 383860
> 
> MATAMP favoured quad EL34s in the output stage. Mr. Traynor used duels...quads came later in models other than the YBAs.
> The early model YBAs are a dream to work on...lots of room. I don't believe that you will have any problem having a tech or hobbyist to help you out.


Had the rare opportunity to service one of them a while back....built like a tank!


----------



## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

nonreverb said:


> Had the rare opportunity to service one of them a while back....built like a tank!
> View attachment 383955


I can imagine Rich...the front looks like a piece of rack-mounted test gear.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Granny Gremlin said:


> I have never had the pleasure to see, nevermind try, some old Oranges, but this is super interesting and I was not aware. was never too impressed by modern ones and never really looked back at older ones due to unobtanium



Not all modern ones are the same. The AD30, for instance, is a _very_ vintage styled amp. There is a single channel version and a dual channel version. Jimmy Page has been using the single channel version since his time with the Black Crowes. His orange was pretty prominent during the Zeppelin reunion show.

I would assume that other models in the AD series (ie. the AD5) would be vintage sounding as well.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Paul Running said:


> A kit would provide an opportunity to introduce you to amp customizing...many of us started that way. I agree with the cost effectivity in the short run however, in the long run, it will add up.



I am useless with technical stuff. I've never even used a soldering iron.


----------



## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

traynor_garnet said:


> The only 2x12 combo I know of is the YGL-3 but that is more of a Twin type of amp.


There’s a’75 Mk3 one at L&M Calgary East for $549…


----------



## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

colchar said:


> Not all modern ones are the same. The AD30, for instance, is a _very_ vintage styled amp. There is a single channel version and a dual channel version. Jimmy Page has been using the single channel version since his time with the Black Crowes. His orange was pretty prominent during the Zeppelin reunion show.
> 
> I would assume that other models in the AD series (ie. the AD5) would be vintage sounding as well.


Yes, it is all tube. That would be a good model to begin experimenting...few components and a good entry model.


----------



## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

@colchar , are you really sure you need another amp, or need to modify.

Your YGM3 should provide some awesome cleans. The tweaking of volume, bass, and treble knobs, are so interactive on that amp. At least they are on my 1976 YGM3, that has been fully gone through by someone top notch.

Even at 9 o’clock position, volume wise at home, putting drive pedals through the amp, is quite awesome. Just tweak the bass and treble knobs, then go back to clean to see what it sounds like. Doing that experimentation with the volume knob up to straight up noon or so sounds awesome, but can get quite loud. I use mostly a Stratocaster or Tele though.

Different speakers, or cabs give you lots of variety with a YGM3. Cheap drive pedals, boutique, whatever, they all dial in just a little different. That amp has endless simple possibilities. The louder the better, but learning how to dial in restraint at home and be satisfied is a little harder after you hear how good it is louder. It just can sound so full and beefy at noon, or better.

I often think about converting mine to a head. If I find a suitable cab, I may try it like that for a while.

I think that the YGM3, is great value, for what they are, and very good non master volume, pedal platform amps to boot.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

AD140s rule, fyi.


----------



## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Budda said:


> AD140s rule, fyi.


A nice chassis to work on...


----------



## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Tone Chaser said:


> @colchar , are you really sure you need another amp, or need to modify.
> 
> Your YGM3 should provide some awesome cleans. The tweaking of volume, bass, and treble knobs, are so interactive on that amp. At least they are on my 1976 YGM3, that has been fully gone through by someone top notch.
> 
> ...


Do the bass and treble work a bit like a master volume? I mean, I can turn both down to 1 or 2 and the amp really drops in volume but it isn't all midrange? And if I turn the bass or treble to 0 there is no output.


----------



## Mikev7305 (Jan 6, 2020)

tomee2 said:


> Do the bass and treble work a bit like a master volume? I mean, I can turn both down to 1 or 2 and the amp really drops in volume but it isn't all midrange? And if I turn the bass or treble to 0 there is no output.


Im still a newb in this realm, but I understand it as this: the loss in volume is a characteristic of a plate driven tone stack. Cathode follower tone stacks would act more like people are used to where there is still a good percentage of the volume available when the tone controls are down low or at zero. Plate driven tone stacks are a gain stage themselves. Anything above midway(ish) would overdrive those frequencies, seemingly acting as a quasi master volume. The ygm-3 and yba-2 are plate driven tone stacks. I believe most TMB stacks would be cathode followers. Please correct me if I'm wrong


----------



## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

@tomee2 , Read up on what a Baxandall tone stack is. Some say it's just an old school hifi circuit where when it is set at noon, it is set to flat. If the circuit is done correctly, it is actually designed to be active, instead of passive. The mid hump of how guitars seem to sound better, is enhanced by the circuit, by negative feedback. I am probably oversimplfying things some, but I find the simple volume, bass, and treble controls on the YGM3 extremely interactive, more so when boosted with pedals, particularly when tweaked plus, or minus the noon position of the tonestack knobs.


----------



## Frustrated Bassist (Apr 5, 2016)

colchar said:


> Are the later Bassmasters still quite close to those circuits. or did they change significantly?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you get a chance to try a 1976 or later YGM-3 ('Waterfall' cabinet and open backed), I think you'll find it is more Brit than American but it has it's own flavor, especially when you start fiddling with the tone controls. If you want to overdrive one you dial up your tone controls past 12 o'clock, a design feature it shares with the YGL-3 (Baxandall tone stack). Design wise, it is uniquely Traynor/Canadian. The open back cabinet gives the last generation YGM-3 a significant volume boost. The Waterfall amps in general also have a few other benefits, improvements to the tone section, grounded power cord from the factory, a breaker instead of a glass fuse. The original speaker is a Marsland 40w alnico and the one in my 1977 has outperformed every other speaker I have tried with the amp, including when all volumes are at 10.
I don't even bother with pedals/effects with this amp, it doesn't need anything. I usually run the gain between 3 and 4 at home, tones at 12 o'clock and all guitar volumes and tones at 10, with a volume pedal. I've been playing a lot of British Invasion style guitar through it lately, with P-90's. The only mod I would do on it would be to decrease the low speed on the tremolo, which is quick and easy. The bright switch is the most common mod though.
The YGM-3 was Traynor's top selling tube amp from when it was introduced in 1969 until tube amp production ceased in 1980 and the Waterfall (sloped control panel), ones were the peak of that particular model.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Tone Chaser said:


> @colchar , are you really sure you need another amp, or need to modify.
> 
> Your YGM3 should provide some awesome cleans. The tweaking of volume, bass, and treble knobs, are so interactive on that amp. At least they are on my 1976 YGM3, that has been fully gone through by someone top notch.
> 
> ...



I have barely touched the tone controls on mine. I found a tone I liked and haven't touched them since. I really should make a point of playing with them to figure out the amp a bit more.

That being said I really, really like that amp. I think they are wonderful amps, whether vintage or reissue. It would be nice to be able to tame the volume a touch for home playing, but that is a minor quibble.

So no, I do not need another amp. What I should probably do is go down the dirt pedal rabbit hole since the amp takes pedals so easily. I am not against doing that at all, and in fact have already started to a small extent. I was just thinking of another amp because of GAS and the fact that it never hurts to have another which gives you a different flavour.


----------



## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

@colchar , my 1976 YGM3 has a speaker that mounts from the front. I have had almost a dozen different speakers in my amp. Greenback, Celestion G12H30, Peavey Black Widow, a Marsland from a Garnet, 2 different Jensen Neo, Eminence FDM Reignmaker and Maverick, and presently a Mesa V30. There have been several 112 and 212 cabs that I had through the extension jack additionally.

3 Greenbacks was cool. The Reignmaker and Greenbacks also very good. The Reignmaker on its own using the FDM knob, tamed the amp some, and gave various pleasing tonal dB options. At the moment I have the Mesa V30 in it from my Express 5:25 Plus. It never got broken in because I liked a Jensen Tornado better in the Mesa. It sounds surprisingly good in the YGM3. From bright cleans, to punchy fat overdriven tones I didn’t know the amp was capable of. Every speaker yields something notably different. The V30 is now breaking in nicely.

I liked the FDM speakers better than attenuator.

Oh, and touch those knobs. A little does a lot, in every direction. You can easily find your way back to your sweet spot, or a new one.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Write down the settings you like (phone notes app works great here - can even save a pic in a note iirc) and fiddle away.


----------

