# Boss DM2W



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Anyone try this pedal yet that have owned the original DM2? I'm looking for a delay for a simple slapback just for thickening up my base tone. It will be on the board with a Strymon tape delay as well.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm not sure the DM2 Waza will deliver anything more than the MXR Carbon Copy, Way Huge Aqua-Puss, or Retrosonic analog delay, or the EHX Memory Boys. All employ a pair of 4096-stage delay chips (the original DM-2 and 3 used only one chip) to be able to get more delay time with somewhat greater bandwidth.

That doesn't make it a bad pedal. But it is unlikely to deliver much more than what is already out there in the way of analog pedals.
.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

mhammer said:


> I'm not sure the DM2 Waza will deliver anything more than the MXR Carbon Copy, Way Huge Aqua-Puss, or Retrosonic analog delay, or the EHX Memory Boys. All employ a pair of 4096-stage delay chips (the original DM-2 and 3 used only one chip) to be able to get more delay time with somewhat greater bandwidth.
> 
> That doesn't make it a bad pedal. But it is unlikely to deliver much more than what is already out there in the way of analog pedals.
> .


I'm not sure what you mean by "The original DM2/DM3 used one chip to get more delay time...". The original DM2 and DM3 got 300ms period. The new DM2 gets 300ms in standard mode and double in custom mode. I'm pretty much only interested in standard mode and if the new DM2w got me exactly what the original DM2 gave I'd be happy. I'd only be using it for a very short subtle slapback to fatten up my base tone. I used to use the retrosonic delay for the same thing before I sold it. If I got just as good out of the DM2 then the price makes it a better deal then the retrosonic for me. I'd be using the el cap for more advanced delay functions.


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

I can't compare to an original one, but I have the DM-2W on my jam board.
To me, the best feature it is the short delay. This thing sounds really good when you using it for slapback.

Tone is daker then some other delay I tried and the repeats fade out really nicely.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

The DM2 Waza sounds very much like the Retrosonic. I think the DM 2 is buffered, and doesn't have the repeat tone control but sound wise very similar. both excellent non modulated delays.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

zdogma said:


> The DM2 Waza sounds very much like the Retrosonic. I think the DM 2 is buffered, and doesn't have the repeat tone control but sound wise very similar. both excellent non modulated delays.


Guess thats all I need to know. I've had the retrosonic but my analog needs are basic and the DM2W would suffice and would rather spend under $200 than over $300.
The buffer will be a bonus as I'm going to have 6 pedals on this board.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Guess thats all I need to know. I've had the retrosonic but my analog needs are basic and the DM2W would suffice and would rather spend under $200 than over $300.
> The buffer will be a bonus as I'm going to have 6 pedals on this board.


I have both (I think my Retrosonic is your old one) The DM 2 is most similar to the retrosonic on the short setting, the long setting is a bit brighter, and has a tiny bit of modulation. It doesn't mention this in the description, but it is definitely there.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

zdogma said:


> I have both (I think my Retrosonic is your old one) The DM 2 is most similar to the retrosonic on the short setting, the long setting is a bit brighter, and has a bit of modulation. It doesn't mention this in the description, but it is definitely there.


That sounds good for my uses. So thats where my retrosonic went. I wish I could remember who I sold my diamond memory lane2 to so I could see if they'd like to sell it back.
I'm going to make a policy not to sell anymore pedals. If I like a pedal I'll buy it without selling another to finance it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "The original DM2/DM3 used one chip to get more delay time...". The original DM2 and DM3 got 300ms period. The new DM2 gets 300ms in standard mode and double in custom mode. I'm pretty much only interested in standard mode and if the new DM2w got me exactly what the original DM2 gave I'd be happy. I'd only be using it for a very short subtle slapback to fatten up my base tone. I used to use the retrosonic delay for the same thing before I sold it. If I got just as good out of the DM2 then the price makes it a better deal then the retrosonic for me. I'd be using the el cap for more advanced delay functions.


The original DM-2 used a 4096-stage MN3005 bucket-brigade chip, and later on the MN3205 version. Since these are stepped by clocks, you get more delay time by having more stages, and by running the clock slower. Unfortunately, a slower clock speed means poorer fidelity/resolution and an annoyingly audible clock whine. Circuits will use heavy filtering to keep that whine from being audible. This lets you get more time, but the repeats are much darker. A MN3005/3205 will deliver somewhere in the neighbourhood of 300-400msec delay time, depending on how you want to set the filtering and bandwidth. A clock speed that provides around 300msec strikes a good balance between bandwidth and delay time.

The chip datasheet specifies that you can cascade up to around 8192 stages (two chips) without suffering problems or requiring extra circuitry. What Retrosonic and Boss do is simply tap the delay path after the first chip or after the second one. Since the two chips are driven by the same clock, the tap point is exactly half the delay time.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Get and old Arion Sad-1 (not the newer sad-3). It is THE slap back delay. Like it way better than the retrosonic, skreddy echo, way huge, carbon copy and everything else I have tried. Guess what chips is uses . . . 

Under $100 too!

TG


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

https://reverb.com/item/658046-arion-sad-1-stereo-delay-made-in-japan#description-tab

Like this?


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## white buffalo (Jan 31, 2016)

Having owned both, I gotta' say the DM-2W compares very favourably. In fact, in standard mode- blind folded-, I wouldn't be able to tell it apart from an original.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

zdogma said:


> https://reverb.com/item/658046-arion-sad-1-stereo-delay-made-in-japan#description-tab
> 
> Like this?


Yep, that's the one.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> Get and old Arion Sad-1 (not the newer sad-3). It is THE slap back delay. Like it way better than the retrosonic, skreddy echo, way huge, carbon copy and everything else I have tried. Guess what chips is uses . . .
> 
> Under $100 too!
> 
> TG


I read some reviews and it seems that users like the delay sounds of this pedal. But 2 common complaints kept being mentioned that would kill it for me. "Tone Suck" and "Noise".


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

No noise at all for me. Tone suck? No worse than your typical boss. I have a TB looper and don't bother putting the Arion in it.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> . Tone suck? No worse than your typical boss.


Supposedly the new DM2W has a good buffer. Which, with all my TBP I think would be a good idea.
Though I haven't used a Boss pedal in years.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I highly doubt the buffer could be better than what Boss has traditionally used. _Maybe_ they use a select low-noise transistor that drops the background hiss by 5%, but it is unlikely to be anything you'd notice unless your attention was drawn to it and you listened really closely. Keep in mind that Boss makes millions of pedals, and has the clout to get high-quality proprietary parts made for them. If they haven't come up with the best input buffer they could, yet, then what the hell have they been doing all these years?


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