# Some DIY fun last night



## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Just thought I'd post since I was quite happy with myself last night!

I have been working on my pedal board lately, and rehoused my A/B pedal and wanted to rehouse my amp channel switch pedal. I hunted around my basement and came across two D'Addario multi-pack tins so I thought I'd give it a try.

A few drilled holes, some grommets and some solder, and I have a neat string tin channel switcher!

I will post pics shortly.

Anyway, I've been lacking any motivation to do some DIY so getting that done was a good thing 

P.S......soldering if fun!

~Andrew


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Congrats Andrew!

...Waiting for the pics.

Cheers

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Pics


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Nice touch


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Phew!!! I thought this thread was about something else.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks for the pics, Andrew...Looking good! 

Hamstrung is making one for the Classic 50 that we all know. I am helping him. 

What did you rehouse your A/B pedal into? Did you rehouse the LED's with it also? (I assume YES)

Cheers

Dave 



kw_guitarguy said:


> Pics


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi Dave,

I just rehoused it back into it's original case and had to repair the LED's. I need more room on my pedalboard so I had to forgo the Ibanez case.

~Andrew


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

kw_guitarguy said:


> I just rehoused it back into it's original case and had to repair the LED's. ~Andrew


I remember that original case/enclosure...it certainly takes nimble fingers and patience to work in that small space!

Cheers

Dave


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Boxes like the D'Addario one are suitable for a lot of things...BUT YOU NEED TO PLACE THE SWITCHES NEAR THE EDGE. The reason being that there is more give, the closer to the middle of the surface you move.

Alternatively, if you can score a spacer or two that can be placed inside to provide a supporting column to keep the middle stiff.


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi Mark,

After some testing, I think I have them close enough to the edge. However, I did come across some random plastic spacers in my junk bin that are the perfect height, should I need to add them.

The next trick is to add LED's. The factory footswitch for my amp:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/ibanez-ifs2g-two-button-footswitch-for-tsa15h

Has LED's but no power cord...not sure how they do that, and I can't find a schematic for LED's without a power connection.

~Andrew


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

kw_guitarguy said:


> Has LED's but no power cord...not sure how they do that, and I can't find a schematic for LED's without a power connection.
> 
> ~Andrew


Probably just a battery.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

kw_guitarguy said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> After some testing, I think I have them close enough to the edge. However, I did come across some random plastic spacers in my junk bin that are the perfect height, should I need to add them.
> 
> ...


I have to laugh. I bought a 4 and 6 switch Marshall foot switch to use as multifx chassis, and painted them the exact same colour as that Ibanez unit.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

dodgechargerfan said:


> Probably just a battery.


Or they are using a TRS plug and getting the power from the amp.

Possibly something like this:


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

That would be it Dave!

Thank you so much...now to source some LED's and resistors 

~Andrew


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

kw_guitarguy said:


> That would be it Dave!
> 
> Thank you so much...now to source some LED's and resistors
> 
> ~Andrew


_*ANDREW...WARNING I am learning about this stuff at present. If you are concerned about how this might possible negatively effect you amp, go with a battery as a power source. *_

ORION Electronics on Lancaster (near Victoria) has lots of resistors.
(even carbon comp if you want to go "Vintage"...LOL) They also have LED's

Do you know/have you measured the voltage from the amp?...The (Ohms) value of the resistor will depend on this...along with the LED you select and the brightness you desire. Get some extra LED's and resistors...you might need them. LED's blow easily!

K-W Surplus on Victoria (the place with the Spitfire replica on the roof) has (hopefully still has) a good selection of LED's.

For other GC members that might wonder if I am seeing things:










Cheers

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi Dave,

I haven't measured the voltage...not too sure where/how I would measure it. I have a multimeter and know how to read it, so if you or someone else knows where to stick the probes, I'll get it measured 

I will head to Orion in the near future.

~Andrew


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Hi Andrew,

With switches in the "ON" position, measure the voltages from:

A) the red wire to ground (bare wire) 

and 

B) from the black wire to ground

Hopefully, these will be Direct Current (DC) voltages. 
If, by chance these are AC (alternating current) voltages...it is going to get a bit more complicated.

There are several websites that show you how to calculate the resistor values for LED's.
Here is an example: http://www.muzique.com/schem/led.htm 

Please keep me updated as to your progress.

Cheers

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Any chance anyone can tell me the voltage from any of these pictures?

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/amp-central-station/277542-nad-ibanez-tsa15h-2.html


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I can't see the pictures at work. But, given the nature of LEDs and supply voltages, the odds are pretty good that the current limiting resistance is going to be at least 2.2k and probably not more than 25k. So, a 25k trimpot, in series with a 2k2 resistor ought to do the trick.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

kw_guitarguy said:


> Any chance anyone can tell me the voltage from any of these pictures?


I doubt that you will have much luck with this...but one never knows.

However, a schematic might give that info...I'll look.
*UPDATE...No luck finding a schematic.*

Cheers

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Voltage Update!

Ok, so with the buttons "off" that is, the overdrive channel off and the boost off, I get 7.88 volts from ground to red and ground to black. With the buttons "on" so overdrive and boost engaged, I get 0 volts.

That tells me that I can't have an LED lit when the buttons are engaged? Am I wrong?

~Andrew


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Hi Andrew,

Maybe someone else knows how to solve this and use the 7.88 volts you have available when the circuit is disengaged...I am not clever enough to figure out how it could be done...LOL

You should be able to do this by adding an external power source (i.e., a 9V battery)
You certainly have the space in your enclosure. 

However, I would use different switches (DPDT ..double pole-double throw) in case the 9 volts from the battery somehow causes noise/hum in the amp.... given that the circuit is reading 0 volts when engaged. 

These are available at Orion for $5.98 + tax. (I just bought 2 for Dan's project).














You should be able to wire it like this:

The tip will and ring will be either the black and red wire and the sleeve will be the ground.



















I am assuming the plug into the foots witch jack on your amp looks like this:










Please keep us updated.

Cheers

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

So I've been doing some googling, and I see no way of using power from the amp without some rewiring inside the amp. So, I guess it's going to have be new switches.....grrrrrrr this was supposed to be a no-cost (a friend at work has resistors) project! 

~Andrew


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Andrew...that is frustrating! 

Any chance you could post a link to the article that describes what rewiring needs to be done inside the amp in order to use the power from the amp? I'd be interested in learning more about this.

Cheers

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi Dave,

There is no article, it was just a guess...since I need voltage to be present when the pedal is engaged, I figured I'd have to reverse something in the amp. It's also curious that the amp's LED's for OD and Boost are on when the pedal is engaged.

Hopefully mhammer will chime in soon!

~Andrew


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

I'm curious about that too. The Mesa footswitches for my TA30 have lit LEDs when engaged but on the Apex footswitch I bought, the LEDs don't light at all. I've been meaning to compare the wiring but forgot about it until now.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

kw_guitarguy said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> Hopefully mhammer will chime in soon!
> 
> ~Andrew


Send him a PM linking him to this thread and asking him for help/comments (I have done it many times and he always responds in the thread)...my curiosity is killin' me...LOL

Cheers

Dave


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

So the IFS2G footswitch is also used for several other Ibanez amps. I tried looking for schematics for each of the various models, including yours, and couldn't find anything.

However, what I did find was info from the TA35 acoustic amplifier user manual. It indicates that if one wishes to use the footswitch, then the effect has to be turned "on" at the amplifier. That is, the footswitch is used to defeat what has already been engaged at the amp. Closing the tip-shaft or ring-shaft connections cancels the effect, such that if the effect is not turned on at the amp, the footswitch does nothing.

So I'm going to say use a 2k2 resistor from the tip and another from the ring, going to the LED, and have the LED go to ground, _in parallel with the switch_. When the switch is open, the effect - as engaged at the amp - remains on and the LED is lit. Close the switch and by grounding the tip or ring connections, the LED will go dark and the effect is cancelled.

That's my best guess. Let me know if I'm right.


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi Mark,

Thank you so much for the info! I did some testing this morning, I don't know if this changes your recommendation or not. With my amp (TSA15H) the toggle switches on the amp don't matter if the footswitch is plugged in. As long as the footswitch is connected on the back, it controls the two things (OD and Boost) regardless of toggle switch position.

I also checked, more for my own curiosity, probably a dumb test, but I disconnected the wires from the stomp switches (so the plug was in the amp but the switches were no longer in the chain) and as long as the amp is on, there is 7.88 volts on both the red and black, that tells me I should somehow be able to get an LED powered without new switches?

I will get the resistors Monday or Tuesday and let you guys know how I make out. Unless my testing changes your thoughts.

Thanks again! Slowly learning as I go along 

~A


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

kw_guitarguy said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> Thank you so much for the info! I did some testing this morning, I don't know if this changes your recommendation or not. With my amp (TSA15H) the toggle switches on the amp don't matter if the footswitch is plugged in. As long as the footswitch is connected on the back, it controls the two things (OD and Boost) regardless of toggle switch position.
> 
> ...


Hi Andrew....I'm not sure why the readings should change with the switches out of the chain. However/whatever, the news is very good. 

I now have a question that I'm hoping mhammer sees (I didn't want to start a new thread). I have calculated, using the various websites available, the resistance needed for a single red LED (2.0 volts forward voltage, 20 mA current, 9V battery) and keep getting a result of 390 ohms. Mark is suggesting you use 2.2k Ohms resistors. I have no doubt that Mark is correct, I just can't understand why I am getting such low values on these various website calculators. 

Cheers

Dave


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I don't know that I'm right, but the LEDs generally available are so efficient that it takes very little current to yield high brightness; hence a higher current-limiting resistor.


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

greco said:


> Hi Andrew....I'm not sure why the readings should change with the switches out of the chain. However/whatever, the news is very good.
> 
> I now have a question that I'm hoping mhammer sees (I didn't want to start a new thread). I have calculated, using the various websites available, the resistance needed for a single red LED (2.0 volts forward voltage, 20 mA current, 9V battery) and keep getting a result of 390 ohms. Mark is suggesting you use 2.2k Ohms resistors. I have no doubt that Mark is correct, I just can't understand why I am getting such low values on these various website calculators.
> 
> ...


Hi Dave,

All I meant was that my original readings were taken with the probes against the switch lugs, hence why I only had power when the switch was in one position. The readings I took today, were directly on the wire with the switches cut off. I wanted to make sure that there was always voltage coming down as long as the amp was on.

And now I have royally confused myself with all of this. My co-worker (co-op student) is in Electronics Engineering at Conestoga and hopefully he can shed some light on this as well.

I know the switches I have are SPST, so I don't see how I can get an LED going with the switches engaged.

Anyway..my brain needs a break 

~Andrew


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

kw_guitarguy said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> All I meant was that my original readings were taken with the probes against the switch lugs, hence why I only had power when the switch was in one position. The readings I took today, were directly on the wire with the switches cut off. I wanted to make sure that there was always voltage coming down as long as the amp was on.
> 
> ...


Thanks 

Keep us updated

@Mark... Thanks! Your response confirmed what I had deducted from reading. I was just surprised that the resistor values could have such a wide spread. 

Cheers

Dave


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

kw_guitarguy said:


> I know the switches I have are SPST, so I don't see how I can get an LED going with the switches engaged.


Hi Andrew, you didn't see what Mark said before :

" So I'm going to say use a 2k2 resistor from the tip and another from the ring, going to the LED, and have the LED go to ground, _in parallel with the switch_. "

Just to add, maybe current limiting resistors for LEDs are installed already in the amp. To verify, use 2k2 resistors in series with LEDs, if you got very faint light from
LEDs, remove the resistors and connect only the LEDs in parallel with switches. Pay attention, LEDs are polarized devices (diodes) so if they do not light at all, just 
flip them over.

P.S.

Mark was right about the size of current limiting resistors for new LEDs, I'm using 10k resistors with 3mm bright LEDs at 9V for pedal switch indicators.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

If a person uses a colour like blue against a dark background, and it's one of the superbirght type LEDs with >10,000mcd rating, you can often get away with 15k-18k (!).

I don't personally feel there is any "standard" resistor value, since not only are some LEDs *brighte*r (for the same voltage/current) than others, but some *colours* show up more easily than others, some *backgrounds* show off that colour more easily than others (high visual contrast), some LED materials *distribute *the light better, and some people *want/need* a brighter status indicator than others. A 2k2 - 4k7 resistor is generally a good starting place, since it won't allow so much current that the LED fries, and won't block so much current that the LED doesn't even light up.

FWIW, I used a 12-position rotary switch to make myself an LED/resistor tester. It goes from 1k up to 18k. I set it to max resistance, plug in an LED, attach the battery, and switch my way down until I get to what I feel is a suitable brightness for that LED, adjusting appropriately to the nearest common-value resistance (e.g., if 3k3 is teensy bit too dim, but the next switch position is 4k7, and is too bright, I may go with 3k9). The advantage here is that a) it is set up for plugging in an LED, and b) I don't have to have a meter handy to measure the usable resistance, just look at what switch position it's at.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> FWIW, I used a 12-position rotary switch to make myself an LED/resistor tester. It goes from 1k up to 18k. I set it to max resistance, plug in an LED, attach the battery, and switch my way down until I get to what I feel is a suitable brightness for that LED, adjusting appropriately to the nearest common-value resistance (e.g., if 3k3 is teensy bit too dim, but the next switch position is 4k7, and is too bright, I may go with 3k9). The advantage here is that a) it is set up for plugging in an LED, and b) I don't have to have a meter handy to measure the usable resistance, just look at what switch position it's at.


Very creative and cool device, Mark.

Thanks for the info, Epis and Mark.

Cheers

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Wow, I am very grateful for all the advice and interest in this thread.

@epis...I saw what Mark wrote, but I am still confused. The way this amp/footswitch is that when I turn on the OD or boost, then I get no voltage from the switch. When I turn the OD or boost off, then the voltage comes back.

What I seem to be missing is that if I power the LED directly from the wire (not the switch lugs) how will the LED get turned ON/OFF with the switch?

If no one feels like explaining that, I don't blame you! I just can't wrap my head around it.

Than you again to everyone, and Mark, that is one cool little tester! You have the mind of System Administrator (I am one...) we love to simplify/automate/reduce the steps for as many mundane/testing type tasks as we can!

~Andrew


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

OK Andrew, I just assumed that switching scheme in your amp work same way as in majority of the guitar amps, when is the switch engaged, actually the OD or boost is off.
But, I have found this, it should work in your amp. Cheers, Damir

http://en.audiofanzine.com/pedal-controller/ibanez/tsa-series-ifs2g-footswitch/medias/pictures/a.play,m.563596.html

P.S.

I just checked out these images, it will work, just don't use super bright LEDs.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks for the compliment, Andrew. Much appreciated.

The manner in which the footswitch operates is a real source of puzzlement to me. Ibanez _should_ be able to provide a schematic for the amp itself, and perhaps that would clear up what the amp does.

I posted the query on MEF ( http://music-electronics-forum.com/t35449-post331944/#post331944 ). We'll see what shows up over the next few days. There's a few guys there with vast collections of service manuals who may have some solid advice.

EDIT: The pic that Damir found suggests it is easier than any of us thought, although I am still perplexed by how the switching system actually works. That said, the pic shows no current-limiting resistors, suggesting that it's all done in the amp itself, and your primary task is to correctly identify the right pins on the LED.

Incidentally, since the switch only requires 2 contacts, this means you could actually run a normally-open _momentary_ switch in parallel with the two lugs on the latching footswitch. These are useful for "punch-in" effects where whatever you switched in is only in effect for as long as you hold your foot down. The moment you lift your foot up, it reverts back to bypass mode. The non-requirement to have to step twice to engage and bypass may not seem like much of a hardship, but you'd be surprised how much momentary switches like this can improve the fluidity of one's use of an effect.


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Thanks Epis!

I can certainly try that wiring scheme. I don't have three (3) lugs on my switches, but since they aren't using all 3 on either of the switches in the picture, I assume it will work?

Right now I have this:

Switch 1

Lug 1 - Red
Lug 2 - Ground

Switch 2

Lug 1 - Black
Lug 2 - Ground

Thanks again!

~Andrew


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

mhammer said:


> The manner in which the footswitch operates is a real source of puzzlement to me. Ibanez _should_ be able to provide a schematic for the amp itself, and perhaps that would clear up what the amp does.


What I see from the pictures, there is explanation why they put the current limiting resistor in the amp chassis. Resistor and LED junction point shows different voltage in on/off states. That difference is for sure higher than 0.6V what is needed for control circuitry transistor to switch from conduct to non conduct state.


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

So...my first attempt at duplicating the photo epis found has renedered the footswitch inoperable. The amp sees a footswitch as the toggles don't work, but hitting the switches do nothing. The LED's also don't light.

Ggrrr.....


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

Did you try to flip over the LEDs ?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

kw_guitarguy said:


> So...my first attempt at duplicating the photo epis found has renedered the footswitch inoperable. The amp sees a footswitch as the toggles don't work, but hitting the switches do nothing. The LED's also don't light.
> 
> Ggrrr.....


Take a break from it...you need a rest!

However, I know how you feel.
If you are anything like me, you are like a rottweiler with a bone... LOL

I just don't want to see the switch hurled out an open window in despair. 

Cheers

Dave


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I always keep a used up battery handy for testing LEDs and identifying the leads. If a 9v gives you the barest hint of tickle on your tongue, it is likely in the 5V range with high internal resistance, meaning you can afford to simply stick the LED leads on the battery terminals for a bit without any fear of frying the LED.

You do realize that if you have already fried those LEDs then flipping them this way or that will still do nothing, since the circut is treating them as an open circuit?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Andrew, I contacted the fellow at Orion Electronics and asked hime to put two DPDT foot switches aside. 

I told him that if someone comes in looking for two of these switches and he appears angry, frustrated, exhausted and somewhat desperate...ask if his name is Andrew.

Cheers

Dave


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

Mark, I don't believe he fried the LEDs (except overheating from soldering iron, but even that it's hard to believe)
I would recommand regular 5mm red leds like in pictures of Ibanez pedal.
Theoretically he could fry the limiting resistors by using the switches as at first.( no leds in series with resistors)
Andrew, please measure the voltage on the switches again, if it's present, resistors are fine.
If the flipping over the leds didn't help, check them out of circuit with ohm meter. (or battery as Mark mentioned)
Dave, there is no need for DPDT switches in this circuit.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Hi Andrew,

It seems as though frustration enjoys company.

I finished Dan's foot switch today and fried/cooked/baked/BBQ'd one of the terminals on one of the switches. I had to solder to 10 of the 12 terminals (for 2 switches) and ONE terminal decided to get too hot, melt the plastic around it and virtually fall out. The "other half" of the switch (i.e., the LED circuit) works fine.

I'll see you Orion tomorrow.

Cheers

Dave




greco said:


>


Think these folks will hire me?


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

I did test the LED's beforehand with an old 9v battery. The long lead is positive and the short lead is negative. In the picture, I have the long lead connected to the wire, and the short lead connected to the switch.

I will turn them around and see what happens, and I will also test the voltage like epis suggests.

@Dave...it's getting closer and closer to that window! 

This is precisely why I prefer plumbing....I can hear/see/feel water and it can only flow one way!

~Andrew


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)




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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

So.....thanks to all of you and my friend at work, it's alive! It's ugly as all hell, but it works. It lights up when it's supposed to and switches things on and off when told to.

Obligatory pics....


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Congrats Andrew!!...What value of dropping resistors did you use ? 
(in case others want to build one of these)

Cheers

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Ummmmm the right has a 1.8 and the other side I think is 2x4.4 wired together which measured out to 2.3....we had to use what my friend on hand.

The led's are equally as bright to my eyes so I'm happy 

~Andrew

Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks Andrew...I can see in the pic where you wired 2 resistors in parallel on the one side...now that you mentioned it and I looked closely.

Cheers

Dave


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## cdayo (Jan 28, 2014)

ok gang, I am adding to this DIY thread.

It took me just shy of a week but thanks to your earlier projects for inspiration I put some stuff together. First off I would just like to say I am not a Black Sabbath fanatic, nor am I an Osbourne fanatic, nor have I ever watched the Osbournes. I don't own a single BS record. Picked the tins up at a St Catherines flee market on the weekend because they worked for footswitches. Just to be clear, I intend to paint these tins, if I keep em. The kill switch might just stay, the looper will go into a project box for sure however.

KILLSWITCH - parts form active surplus TO


















Loop



























The tin for the loop is little small so I have to rehouse it to fit the battery. womp womp. Worth it in the end!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

For those who like custom switching arrangements, here's another little twist to consider.
[video=youtube;xszB3pAGrdw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xszB3pAGrdw[/video]


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

cdayo said:


> ok gang, I am adding to this DIY thread.
> 
> Loop
> 
> ...


Congratulations! Nice work.

Amazing how fast the real estate inside an enclosure disappears, isn't it!! ....especially when you need to fit a 9V battery somewhere.

Cheers

Dave


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