# Look fake to you? kijiji chibson



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I'm not a LP expert, but this one seems a bit off to me. Price seems cheap, and the shape seems a little wonky to me. Although my eyesight is questionable.

1959 Les Paul Standard Reissue - Iced Tea | guitars | New Glasgow | Kijiji


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I won't speak to authenticity, not being an expert. However, the wonky shape looks to me like a wonky camera perspective.


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## Geetarz (Jan 19, 2016)

...the ad reads "Made in China"...


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

says right in the add "made in China" so it's got to be a chibson.


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2016)

The installation of the tuners is too dang sloppy.


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## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

The fact that it is made in China I would think it is most definitely a copy of some sort.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Maybe I'm being too suspicious but I'd say it's a fake and the owner knows this and is trying to keep his ass covered while he cons somebody into thinking they're buying a real Gibson


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Maybe I'm being too suspicious but I'd say it's a fake and the owner knows this and is trying to keep his ass covered while he cons somebody into thinking they're buying a real Gibson


But the ad clearly states "Made In China".


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

laristotle said:


> The installation of the tuners is too dang sloppy.


About par for the course for Gibson.... now if the finish was all orange peeled that would prove it's authenticity. 

(I jest, but their QC was non-existent for a while there)


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

davetcan said:


> But the ad clearly states "Made In China".


Exactly.
I can hear it now.

"I know the ad said Gibson Les Paul, but it also said right in the ad Made in China. He should have known it was fake".

It's clearly a fake and shouldn't be resold AT ALL, but certanly should not be re-sold as a Gibson Les Paul.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

To the best of my knowledge, if it says Gibson on the headstock then it is made in USA.
There are apparently no exceptions as this is a Gibson policy, written in stone, never to be undone.
That means any so-called Gibson made in China is, in fact, not a Gibson.
Hope that helps answer the question.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

davetcan said:


> But the ad clearly states "Made In China".


Someone like myself who knows nothing about Gibson guitars may not know that Gibson doesn't sell low level Chinese guitars.


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

cboutilier said:


> Someone like myself who knows nothing about Gibson guitars may not know that Gibson doesn't sell low level Chinese guitars.


I am pretty sure Gibson does sell low level Chinese guitars. 
Not under the Gibson name, but low level Chinese guitars none the less.


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

Let's see, the lettering on the head stock is wrong, much to fat, the top of the head stock is angled wrong, definitely not Gibson and it does say made in China, there is a chance it just might be a fake. The head stock and the lettering do not match my Gibson's.
%h(*&


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Jamdog said:


> I am pretty sure Gibson does sell low level Chinese guitars.
> Not under the Gibson name, but low level Chinese guitars none the less.


I have a Chinese Epiphone, but I didn't know if their were legit Chinese gibson or not. I know Tele's and that's about it.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

I dont see it a cam angle. It looks poorly scaled. Nonetheless, he's not trying to pass a counterfeit so whats the alarm about? The ad clearly states made in China. Nobody out to buy a Gibson is getting hosed here, its pretty much their own fault


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I don't agree with the ad in the slightest. It isn't a Gibson, yet the Ad title clearly states that it is. I don't really care if the ad write up clearly states it's a Chibson. You just have to look at the price he's asking to know that. And it isn't even stated in the beginning of the write up. It's after the "sell job" he's putting on. Like cboutillier says, he doesn't know Gibsons. Neither do a ton of beginners. I'm wonder what I would feel like if I bought my 79 LP way back when because I thought that Gibson rip off in the Pawn shop was the real deal (I saw one in a Pawn shop about 5 years after I bought mine when I was 15 and scoffed at it). I didn't know squat about a Gibson back then, only that it was the coolest looking and sounding guitar out there. And Ace Frehley played one.

Fast forward over 30 years where apparently "buyer beware" motto is put on the dude buying it and not on the person selling it. Not everyone who wants a guitar knows what people in this forum know.

Sorry for the rant, but dishonesty pisses me off.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i noticed a bunch of things wrong. 

the wrong shape in the body in more than one place
the cavity cover is wrong
the tuners are crooked
headstock is the wrong shape in more than one place
script on the case is wrong and the shape of the case is wrong too.
can't see the bridge pins well enough to know whether they are slotted or not. that's usually my first clue


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

No 'wings' on the headstock. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

Of course its a knockoff, lol. Anyone that owns or has even held one in their hands can tell that is a knockoff. Its a 8 thousand dollar plus guitar new so that is a giveaway right there. As for the seller he has very clearly said its made in China and is based on a 59 Les Paul reissue. I don't think the seller is trying to rip anyone off, he has it listed for what it is. A knockoff...........


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

I had one of these China fake gibson at one time...looked good , that was about it..


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

TA462 said:


> Of course its a knockoff, lol. Anyone that owns or has even held one in their hands can tell that is a knockoff. Its a 8 thousand dollar plus guitar new so that is a giveaway right there. As for the seller he has very clearly said its made in China and is based on a 59 Les Paul reissue. I don't think the seller is trying to rip anyone off, he has it listed for what it is. A knockoff...........


I'm fine with the price he's asking (maybe...at least there is OBO there). That isn't really an issue for me. The problem I have is that it isn't clearly stated either in the title or at the beginning of the write up. Even if he said "Gibson knockoff or fake Gibson" in the title or even in the write up I'd be fine. I guess it comes down to me not agreeing with the wording of the ad. Hell, I didn't know Gibsons that were not made in the USA weren't the real deal. If I worked for a year washing dishes at a seedy motel when I was 15 to buy a $700 guitar at 16, just to find out that I only should've payed the amount my parents payed for my $75 cheese cutting machine and transistor radio for an amp, I would've been just a teensy weensy bit choked. I realize it's different times now, but the people using this type of phrasing in their personal ads to sell something that is junk should at least acknowledge it right off the bat. It smacks of trying to pull a fast one on some sucker out there to me.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Dorian2 said:


> I don't agree with the ad in the slightest. It isn't a Gibson, yet the Ad title clearly states that it is.


Was the ad title or content recently changed then? I don't see "Gibson" stated _anywhere_ in that FS post. I see a headstock shot with the logo, which could conceivably confuse a novice, but I don't presently see the word "Gibson" appearing in that ad...


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

My opinion is that if you buy on of these fakes, you should keep it. Once they've changed hands a few times, someone is going to get fooled. And yes, someone who knows Gibson guitars will be able to tell it's fake pretty quickly but consider the masses on Kijiji - many won't know better.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

StevieMac said:


> Was the ad title or content recently changed then? I don't see "Gibson" stated _anywhere_ in that FS post. I see a headstock shot with the logo, which could conceivably confuse a novice, but I don't presently see the word "Gibson" appearing in that ad...


You are right, it isn't..... The first person who doesn't know guitars and see's the headstock will be fooled most likely though. To me it is insinuating that it's a Gibson. But to avoid any needle threading technicalities, I'll leave it at that. Just my personal, honest opinion is all.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

If you're buying a guitar - hell, anything - privately on kijiji or wherever, you should know what the feck you're doing. Buyer beware these days. Sad but true, honor and integrity died with e-commerce.

If you don't know what you're doing, buy from a reputable dealer. A dealer with honor and integrity. And a return policy. Just MHO.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

you can buy that guitar brand spankin new for what he's asking


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

High/Deaf said:


> If you're buying a guitar - hell, anything - privately on kijiji or wherever, you should know what the feck you're doing. Buyer beware these days. Sad but true, honor and integrity died with e-commerce.
> 
> If you don't know what you're doing, buy from a reputable dealer. A dealer with honor and integrity. And a return policy. Just MHO.


Died with e-commerce? Doubtful. Buyer beware has been around for AGES. That stereotypical slimey used car salesman schtick didn't just get pulled out of thin air.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

Dorian2 said:


> I'm fine with the price he's asking (maybe...at least there is OBO there). That isn't really an issue for me. The problem I have is that it isn't clearly stated either in the title or at the beginning of the write up. Even if he said "Gibson knockoff or fake Gibson" in the title or even in the write up I'd be fine. I guess it comes down to me not agreeing with the wording of the ad. Hell, I didn't know Gibsons that were not made in the USA weren't the real deal. If I worked for a year washing dishes at a seedy motel when I was 15 to buy a $700 guitar at 16, just to find out that I only should've payed the amount my parents payed for my $75 cheese cutting machine and transistor radio for an amp, I would've been just a teensy weensy bit choked. I realize it's different times now, but the people using this type of phrasing in their personal ads to sell something that is junk should at least acknowledge it right off the bat. It smacks of trying to pull a fast one on some sucker out there to me.



He acknowledged it was made in China. If I was in the market for a high end guitar I would research it which I've done with every guitar I've bought. If I see a ad for a guitar that very clearly states MADE IN CHINA and it is a Les Paul with a Gibson logo on it then I know its not real. If any potential buyer is dumb enough not to research a item before buying it then they are to blame if they buy it. Just like a used car, truck, refrigerator, whatever............. If you don't know what your looking at than how can you make a purchase without potentially being ripped off? You can't. The seller in this ad has done his part, its up to any potential buyer to do their part.


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## Gene Machine (Sep 22, 2007)

They are junk. Poor build quality. Chinese Epiphone is much better. Just buy a used Epi LP, you'd be better off.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Gene Machine said:


> They are junk. Poor build quality. Chinese Epiphone is much better. Just buy a used Epi LP, you'd be better off.


depending on who you buy from, they ARE chinese epiphone


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

Dorian2 said:


> You are right, it isn't..... The first person who doesn't know guitars and see's the headstock will be fooled most likely though. To me it is insinuating that it's a Gibson.


Well, I don't see what else a person could do in this case.
The seller identifies the guitar as being MIC.
The seller does not say it is a Gibson.
What is the seller supposed to do?
NOT post a picture of something he's trying to sell?

The real fault here lies with the scumbag(s) who decided to build a knockoff with a Gibson logo on it.
I think this seller has done his (her) due diligence.
Can someone be ripped off if they are ignorant of some of the facts we've discussed here?
Of course but that can happen ANY time you make an uniformed purchase.
The other side of that coin is ... can you really call it a rip-off at that price point?

Again, I don't see this seller as having done all that much wrong.
Additionally, do we know if the seller even knows the real story?
I think the thing about these alert threads is that they help nobody.
If it is a really convincing fake then these kinds of threads may help one of us prevent ourselves from harm.
We see something we're not sure about and post a thread asking for input and learn by it before buying.
I don't think the kid who's going to buy this guitar will check with us before he lays out his cash, though.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Heh. All I was basically asking for the seller to do was to either say in the title of the ad (preferable), or at the very beginning of the write up (2nd option which is fine). I'm not taking the seller to town on it or anything, I just don't like the way it is being approached by the seller. I've already stated that it's an obvious fake, but here is the link wording from the OP

1959 Les Paul Standard Reissue - Iced Tea | guitars | New Glasgow | Kijiji

Here is mine:

1959 Les Paul Standard Reissue - Iced Tea | guitars | New Glasgow | Kijiji

That's about all I was getting at here.


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

I agree with you Dorian. He shouldn't be titling his ad "1959 Les Paul Standard Reissue". It's not a reissue. Better he calls it what it is: "Chibson for sale".


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I think the word Reissue is at the heart of the problem here. Doesn't the word REissue inherently suggest that it's by the original manufacturer? Can anyone reissue a Les Paul other than Gibson? I mean, in order to reissue something, you have to have issued it in the first place. If you substitute the word copy for reissue everywhere in the ad, then there's no problem with it at all.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

The seller does not say it's a Gibson, but he posts a picture of a guitar wth Gibson on the headstock and calls it a Les Paul in the ad title.

Although he says it's made in China, he does NOT say it's not a Gibson.


Caveat emptor? I don't think so.

These pieces of crap should be stopped at the border.

If you do have one and wish to sell it, you should be very clear that it's a fake in the ad. 

I wonder if the fact that they're basically poorly made counterfeit garbage makes it hard to be honest in an ad.

How do you post an ad with words like fake, knock off or counterfeit in the title or body?


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Milkman said:


> The seller does not say it's a Gibson, but he posts a picture of a guitar wth Gibson on the headstock and calls it a Les Paul in the ad title.
> 
> Although he says it's made in China, he does NOT say it's not a Gibson.
> 
> ...


That's how I describe my Riviera amp. It's basically a Canadian made, hand wired P2P knockoff Deluxe Reverb in head form.


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2016)

Milkman said:


> These pieces of crap should be stopped at the border.


And how is it that 'Gibson' is not filling lawsuits with the Chinese?
Could it be that 'merica does not want to offend it's largest debt holder?

I agree with you though.
Every now n' then, someone will post a 'beware, fake' ad on kijiji to help.
There needs to be more effort to help stop this.
Education, like this thread and others, helps.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

laristotle said:


> And how is it that 'Gibson' is not filling lawsuits with the Chinese?
> Could it be that 'merica does not want to offend it's largest debt holder?


i'm usually one of the first to jump on a conspiracy, but i have my doubts about this.
aside from henry J being anything BUT a good american, suing the chinese is like bailing out the love boat with a coffee cup. 
they've been counterfeiting goods since long before the internet, and before there was cnc. they have a huge open industry in fake goods. entire malls, bigger than probably anything most of us have ever been to, and all of the goods inside, every single item, is counterfeit. 
in order to stop the chinese, you need to change the attitude of their government. one not known for cooperation with anyone, let alone the west. there have been some big busts but to little effect.

Counterfeit Guitar Bust Yields 861 Gibson Fakes, Ends with Prison Sentence

Over $1 Million Worth Of Counterfeit Guitars Seized In NJ

something you may not know is that china has been counterfeiting the harley for decades. no business i know of, protects it's brand as staunchly as harley does, and you probably never even knew about this. because you can't buy them here. the biker culture won't accept it, so they don't sell here. but don't be fooled, they sell a royal shit-ton of them in asia. if there was anyone on this planet with the means and the wherewithal to stop their goods from being counterfeited, it would be harley. and they haven't done it.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

What about our customs and border patrol groups? Why are these obvious counterfeits allowed into our countries so freely?


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Milkman said:


> What about our customs and border patrol groups? Why are these obvious counterfeits allowed into our countries so freely?



because contrary to what you have been led to believe, *most packages not only DON'T get checked, they never even go through customs. * most of the time packages go to a bonded warehouse when operated by "trusted" large quantity shippers, such as ups or fedex. it's half the reason i bitch so much about brokerage fees. you get charged for work not even done.
aside from that, they are not obvious fakes to everyone. to open every box and look through it is a monumental task all on it's own. training a gov't employee how to spot counterfeit anything would be a huge expense, and judging by the quality of people we get at the tsa, or even the dmv, it couldn't possibly work out well.


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## James (Jul 3, 2007)

made in china .... wonky tuners in the picture ....$450......run Forest run!

....step away from the guitar.....


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

cheezyridr said:


> i'm usually one of the first to jump on a conspiracy, but i have my doubts about this.
> aside from henry J being anything BUT a good american, suing the chinese is like bailing out the love boat with a coffee cup.
> they've been counterfeiting goods since long before the internet, and before there was cnc. they have a huge open industry in fake goods. entire malls, bigger than probably anything most of us have ever been to, and all of the goods inside, every single item, is counterfeit.
> in order to stop the chinese, you need to change the attitude of their government. one not known for cooperation with anyone, let alone the west. there have been some big busts but to little effect.
> ...


Merchandise yes, bikes not very often. You do see copies of bikes from China but they are sold under Chinese brand names. In Asia is mostly in China no matter what the name of the country is and they are not considered counterfeit there same as the Russian 'copies'. Here, meaning outside of Asia, the gov't and Harley....and as you pointed out....the biker culture, keep the bikes and for the most part, parts, out. T-shirts, belts, watches etc. is another matter which is impossible to control. Especially if you're a cheap SOB who buys off Amazon.
"In Amazon's quest to be the low-cost provider of everything on the planet, the website has morphed into the world's largest flea market — a chaotic, somewhat lawless, bazaar with unlimited inventory. Always a problem, the counterfeiting issue has exploded this year, sellers say, following Amazon's effort to openly court Chinese manufacturers, weaving them intimately into the company's expansive logistics operation."


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I wouldn't really care. I never buy a headstock. If I liked the guitar and the price was in the ball park of what I felt it was worth, I might buy it. If I sold it again I wouldn't try to pass it off as a brand name if it wasn't but would sell it for what I thought it was worth as a guitar, not a Gibson, Fender, Godin, PRS, etc. but a guitar.


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## Vally (Aug 18, 2016)

I'm from Nova Scotia and I inquired about this, asked for a few more pics and this thing is FAKE. Initially he wanted $2000


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