# Traynor YCV50Blue 2 months on.



## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I have to say this is the best bit of gear I've bought in a long time. I've been playing in jams at a local bar once or twice a week since I got it back in July. It's way too loud for playing at home but get in a venue where you can turn it up and oh my it sings. Every guitar I own sounds great with this amp. When I take a break at the jam everyone wants to play it. I'm amazed at how good it sounds no matter who's playing, what style they are playing, or what guitar they have. I've spent years looking for a sound, buying and selling guitars. I was looking in the wrong place. I'm slowly paring down my guitar collection based on how they feel rather than how they sound.


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

I love my Blue as well.
just sings in all the right spots.


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## SG-Rocker (Dec 30, 2007)

It's even better with the extension cabinet...

I wouldn't trade it for anything.

The only thing I would change would be substituting the V30 speakers for a nice pair of G12-65s.

IMHO, channel 2 (clean) covers clean right up to the classic 'plexi' sound.

Channel 1 (gain) picks up from where the clean channel ends and goes from hot-rodded plexi right up to DSL territory.

What more could you want? And made in Canada to boot !!


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Pretty much the best amp I've owned. Best where it can stretch its legs a bit, i.e., loud in a big room or outside, with the extension cabinet, and mine seems to operate better if it's been on for a while. I love the distortion and reverb so much that on blues gigs I don't bother with any extra FX. Clean or dirty, this amp suits me. 

I have experimented a little with speakers and have an Eminence Cannibis Rex in it right now. It's less bright than the stock Celestion. It's also had a Reignmaker in it. Few amps have worked so well with either single coils or humbuckers, at least to my ears.

Great gear.

Peace, Mooh.


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## eric_b (Dec 6, 2008)

Just picked one up a used one from my local L&M. an '08 or so. Very nice amp, kinda ridiculously loud for my purposes, mostly, but that's a good thing.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

eric_b said:


> Just picked one up a used one from my local L&M. an '08 or so. Very nice amp, kinda ridiculously loud for my purposes, mostly, but that's a good thing.


 It is ridiculously loud. I'm looking for a good set of earplugs for when I play live. Didn't have the same problem when I used to use the house backline amps. I really like how when you have it cranked you can back off the volume on the guitar and it cleans right up. No need for pedals but it can be hard on the hearing.


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## eric_b (Dec 6, 2008)

Your observations on this amp have proven to be pretty accurate, IMO. It's going to take me a while to dial it in the way I want, but with the few hours I've spent playing it, it should work out very well. Pretty much completes my transition back to using tube amps exclusively.


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## drwow (Oct 20, 2013)

TL;DR - Yeah, I'm another happy owner (two years), best bang-for-buck I've ever had and I've owned a few amps the last 4 decades.

Details...

I picked my Blue up in '13 for $250, it was the 'version 1' from the first year they made them, ...and it was not working right. 

One of the EL34 heaters was not lighting up, though the amp still worked (lotsa' crossover distortion), so I swapped positions to make sure it was the tube and then picked up a pair of EH El34s, which were all I could get at the local Markham L&M. I have a pair of JJ 6CA7's that I tried a while later, loved the tone but the amp seemed to be running too hot, so I put the EL 34's back in. 

Once it was working properly I still wasn't completely happy with the tone, too gainy and middy (6CA7's really tamed the mids) for me and the boost (which is just adding V2a from the second 12AX7 so it's running on both sides of both preamp tubes), was just too much of a jump in volume to be usable. I also found it to be a bit too chime-y in the speaker dept. Not a big fan of V30's in an open back cab. So in its stock config, I still liked the amp but, ...needed tweaking (those of us obsessed with amp-tweaking are f'ing cursed).

Speaker(s):

A few months after I got this amp, I picked up a used YCX12 extension cab with a Celestion 70/80 in it (ew...) for $125 (yay!). I really wanted a blue cab to match, but... no big deal. IMO, running this amp with 2 12's is a must, it really brings out the lows and low mids as well as tightening things up across the board. 

About a week after this, I lucked into a killer deal for 2 '71 Altec 417C-8 speakers (the 417 is my ALL TIME fave guitar speaker, I've owned a few "H's and "C"s over the years), for $75 for the pair. I've seen these go for over $400 a piece on eBay/Reverb so this was a good find. I yanked out the V30 and dropped 417 in, it was a seriously tight fit but I was immediately loving it... it really tightened things up a lot. I then yanked the 70/80 out of the YCX intending to drop the other Altec in, but I wanted to try the V30 in a sealed cab first (the 417 works best in an open-cab, IMO), glad I did - I loved the combination. Poverty being the main motivation, I sold the other Altec on KJJ for $275, bringing my total cost of amp and cab + one Altec, down to a net total $137.50... speaking of "bang for buck". 

Unfortunately, the Altec has developed a bit of a coil rub, so I had to yank it and drop in the only spare I had, the 70/80 (ew). I thought about putting the V30 back in, but.... it sounds so much better in the YCX that I'm just going to leave it as it is. So, until I can get the Altec fixed, I may opt for a Cannabis Rex, as it seems to be the go-to, relatively-affordable speaker for taming the highs and mids and tightening up the lows. 

(Disclaimer: _I'm not an amp tech, I only "sort of" know what I'm doing, re: my understanding of the 'Blue's gain stage structure came from a knowledgeable source but it may be wrong._)

So... I started playing with different preamp tubes (and still am) to try and find the right combination to lower the gain in just the right places. The gain stage structure (I think), is:

Clean (CH. 2): V1a, V2a
Drive (CH. 1): V1a, V1b, V2b
Drive w/Boost: (adds V2a) V1a, V2a, V1b, V2b 
V3 = Phase Inverter

(Disclaimer #2: _YMMV, twin triode tubes like the 12AX7-AT7-AU7-etc, have matching "amplification factors"; 100/100 for a 12AX7 down to 17/17 for a 12AU7. Be aware though that there are other differences in internal specs for these tubes, even if the pin-outs are the same, aside from having different amplification factors, they also often have different; heater current, transconductance, plate current and plate resistance. When swapping different tube types in and out, you are also running the amp "out of spec" and -may- be stressing the power supply._)

I've tried a few different tubes in V1 and V2 - 5751, 12DW7 (ECC832), 12AT7. Different combinations yield different things, I've forgotten what I left in there, I think there's a 5751 in one of the slots and maybe a 12AT7 in the other, it's close but not quite where I want it. The next thing I want to try is a JJ ECC823, which is a "reverse 12DW7", the 12DW7/ECC832 is unique in that it is one side of a 12AX7 with the second section being similar to a 12AU7, so an amplification factor of 100/17, the JJ ECC823 reverses this so it's 17/100. I want to try an 'AX7 0r 5751 in VI and a JJ ECC823 in V2, which would then yield gain stage amplification factors of: 

Clean (CH. 2): 70, 17
Drive (CH. 1): 70, 70, 100
Drive w/Boost: (adds V2a) 70, 17, 70, 100 

Next time I do this, I'm keeping notes, ...because of the # of variations you can get just using two tubes with different pairs of amplification factors, ...a lot more when you factor in using an '832 and a '823. 

My purely subjective impressions of the YCV50Blue...

Pros: 

- Overall, I like this amp a lot, not just because it's very affordable, but because it's also very versatile, tweakable (for a mass produced 'entry-level' amp) and with the master-volume, it seems to scale well tone-wise from low to high SPL. 

- I think the latest version of this amp looks nicer (though the blue nubtex is cool) and has been through several revisions, including the addition of a bias trim-pot. For me, this amp... 

- With a few tweaks; has a unique tone that I really like, not Fender, not Marshall, but an interesting combination of both.

- Channel switching and boost.

- Effects loop. (easiest fix for the reverb).

- $137.50!!!

Cons: 

- Needs foot-switchable reverb if you are going to best utilize channel-switching, I'm not sure if this can be modded or not since the reverb seems to be part of the circuit tied into the master-volume, so it's probably integral to the topology of the amp (anybody modded this for a reverb on/off yet?). Speaking of reverb, the reverb and master volume interact in a way that makes it difficult to scale their settings.

- The way the standby-switch is implemented is a joke.

- Lack of a bias trim in the early YCV50Blue. 

- Boost is not easily variable.

- While I love the V30 in the YCX, the combo might be better served with a C-Rex in it.

- I think the logo looks like ass.

Of the six con-points, only one is not easily (maybe even un-mod-able) dealt with (reverb switch) aside from using an outboard reverb with the effects loop (probably a good idea). The standby and trim pot can be dealt with by an amp-tech or someone with experience, "boost" issues and speaker can be modded fairly easily by the user and the logo thing is purely aesthetic. I would love to buy another and another YCX cab and run them in stereo...


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

drwow
If Yorkville's block diagram is correct, then your summaries of the gain stages are correct.
As far as a reverb footswitch, it's probably more of a challenge with regard to noise. A switch that grounds the wiper of the reverb control is simple and will do the trick. The problem is that you now have an antenna the length of the footswitch cable hanging off the reverb pot and picking up noise.
Can you be more specific about the stand-by issue? I know the early versions were fairly problematic as far as reliability, but I think the newer ones were just an audio mute that they still called "standby".


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## drwow (Oct 20, 2013)

jb welder said:


> drwow
> If Yorkville's block diagram is correct, then your summaries of the gain stages are correct.


Thanks, that's what I was trying to go on from memory, but I couldn't find the pdf.




jb welder said:


> As far as a reverb footswitch, it's probably more of a challenge with regard to noise. A switch that grounds the wiper of the reverb control is simple and will do the trick. The problem is that you now have an antenna the length of the footswitch cable hanging off the reverb pot and picking up noise.


Yeah, I don't like solutions that come with new problems, it's already (IMO) the biggest source of noise in an otherwise quiet amp. But, there are some great reverbs around now and a decent effects loop.... so, not a deal-breaker. still, it's not a very lush reverb to begin with, ...not enough to surf on, anyway.












jb welder said:


> Can you be more specific about the stand-by issue? I know the early versions were fairly problematic as far as reliability, but I think the newer ones were just an audio mute that they still called "standby".


The mute revision addresses this - is not as much of a problem I guess (though redundant as fuck, just kill the volume knob on your guitar, ...same thing really). I have a Rev. 1, so far, no issues, but... I think they employed FET switching to lower the voltage on the output tubes instead of a switch, just to save 75¢ or so. So they saved a few cents per unit but also gained an unnecessary failure mode, or so I've heard... :smile-new:

Same thing with the "auto bias". They designed another thing that cold go wrong.

From a repair standpoint, this amp is not going to get smiles from the bench, still, ...a really fun to use amp for the player, in spite of design flaws (many of which have been ameliorated in newer versions).

Interesting thread here (you and I and 'nonreverb" and others), ...great thread for info: 

http://www.guitarscanada.com/showthread.php?59432-A-little-help-Traynor-YCV50-power-section/page4

So, my go-to amp guy (Tone On Wheels/nonreverb) in Ottawa (where I am now), ...is not happy about working on these, to quote: 
_
"...I found this particular series particularly difficult to service. Best to contact Guy at Traynor with the specifics so he can get you the proper schematic. If you're doing the repair yourself, put your seatbelt on.....you're going for a ride!" ~ nonreverb

_Your own take on the standby switch:_

"The official party line I got was that it was based on the philosophy that hardware (pots, switches, etc.) is expensive, semi-conductors are much cheaper. So at the mfgr. level, a mosfet is pennies, a switch than can handle standby switch current costs maybe a dollar or more." ~ jb welder

_I still love this amp, even if it has 'baggage. I would buy another... By way of metaphor: This amp may eat crackers in bed, but it's still a great fuck, ...hahaha.

_
._


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I find this technical stuff fascinating but in the end I just want an amp I can lug to a venue without breaking my back. I want an amp that I can play any style, any guitar and sound good. I especially want an amp that doesn't require a lot of pedals to get a good sound. This amp meets my needs and then some. I bought it. The next day I was playing in a local bar. Took about half a set to get it dialled in. Haven't changed a thing since. That for me is the sign of a great amp.


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## Scriptor (Jun 12, 2015)

Kerry Brown said:


> I find this technical stuff fascinating but in the end I just want an amp I can lug to a venue without breaking my back. I want an amp that I can play any style, any guitar and sound good. I especially want an amp that doesn't require a lot of pedals to get a good sound. This amp meets my needs and then some. I bought it. The next day I was playing in a local bar. Took about half a set to get it dialled in. Haven't changed a thing since. That for me is the sign of a great amp.


+1 I totally agree. The thing I dont like with my mustang is spending lots and lots of time on settings to get the tone I want. 

You guys talking about the blue version. Its not build anymore, I guess the replacement model is that one? http://traynoramps.com/guitar/ycv/product/ycv50b/


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

That looks to be pretty much the same amp but I'be never actually seen one in person. In any case every Traynor I've tried I liked so I don't think you'd go wrong. There are certainly compromises with my YCV50 Blue but overall it pretty much always sounds good. You can't get Eric Clapton's exact tone or BB King's etc. etc. but you can get close and you can always find a pleasing alternative for any genre except possibly death metal.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I don't know what small tweaks have been made over the years, but generally yes the black YCV50B currently made is much the same specs as the old original Blue. I owned both and the controls were 100% the same, any changes were internal tweaks.


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## stringer (Jun 17, 2009)

Kerry Brown said:


> I have to say this is the best bit of gear I've bought in a long time. I've been playing in jams at a local bar once or twice a week since I got it back in July. It's way too loud for playing at home but get in a venue where you can turn it up and oh my it sings. Every guitar I own sounds great with this amp. When I take a break at the jam everyone wants to play it. I'm amazed at how good it sounds no matter who's playing, what style they are playing, or what guitar they have. I've spent years looking for a sound, buying and selling guitars. I was looking in the wrong place. I'm slowly paring down my guitar collection based on how they feel rather than how they sound.


Congrats, sounds like you're in the groove. It's a great feeling when the toys mesh! I've got a Traynor ycs 50 that I really enjoy and a ycv80q on the way. I'm becoming a big Traynor fan.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

My opinion of the amp hasn't changed, but the only things I would change if I could are:

1) The knobs spin too freely, almost without any friction to keep them in place. The slightest bump puts them off their settings. Yeah, I know, masking tape along the cab to remind me of my general settings.

2) I prefer my tone controls in order of bass, mid, treble...like in the order of frequency...or low to high musical thinking. Treble, bass, middle makes no sense at all. I once spoke to a company sales rep about this and he had some garbled explanation that was obviously BS. When I pointed out the correct order on some other Traynor models he was dismissive. I can easily get confused by the order on the fly. 

Regardless, it's a great amp.

Peace, Mooh.


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## rockinbluesfan (Mar 3, 2008)

Mooh said:


> My opinion of the amp hasn't changed, but the only things I would change if I could are:
> 
> 1) The knobs spin too freely, almost without any friction to keep them in place. The slightest bump puts them off their settings. Yeah, I know, masking tape along the cab to remind me of my general settings.
> 
> ...


Just thinking of a solution for the knob moving problem - is there room to put a small o-ring under the knob? It would provide enough friction to hold in place and still be able to move them when needed!


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Good idea.

Peace, Mooh.


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