# What’s your thoughts on having the lyrics on stage



## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

Some bands want there singer to memorize the lyrics , others are ok with the lyrics on stage .I have seen professionals, now older using monitors on stage..

My thought is if your young and can memorize the lyrics then go for it , but when your in your 50s and older it’s not that easy .As long as the lyrics are not in front of your face , why be so fussy , I really don’t think anybody in the crowd is going , OMG .. they have lyrics on the stage...

It’s what comes out of those speakers that is most important ...Thoughts .??


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Agree


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## Guest (Aug 19, 2018)

It may not look profesional, but .. meh.
Singers in both bands that I play in have music stands.
One of them has his lyric book out. 
They other, same. She also keeps her toys on there. Maracas, cowbell, tambourine etc. 

When I went to see Keith and the New Barbarians play the Benefit for the Blind show (Oshawa '79), there were music stands all across the stage.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Years ago, I thought it was bush league. 

I've changed my mind now. I prefer not to use one, but because of that, I only sing about a dozen songs (all I can remember the lyrics to). 

I know it allows bands to extend their song list from perhaps 50 to a few hundred, so win-win for both the band and the audience, especially when they're nice enough to send up requests written on $10 bills. My other guitarist has one on stage mounted very low. I like it because I can see the words to harmonies I'm supposed to be singing. Much better than 'la-la'ing my way through them, eh?


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

It's not an issue for me. Orchestras require them, lots of pros use them...

Most of the time I keep mine well off to my left because I don't need it full-time. For whatever reason I don't have an issue with chords very often but remembering lyrics is a bitch. I always suspected I had some sort of undiagnosed learning disability, or too many concussions, not that either affected any of my careers as far as I'm aware. Everything is familiar, if not memorized. In my early cover band years I had everything memorized, but that was then, this is now. I'm older, wiser, but my mental reflexes ain't what they used to be. Now, I play a fair number of one-off gigs where I read almost everything so a stand is an absolute necessity...these shows don't pay enough to make me memorize anything.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

99% of the time it takes away something from the performance. There are perfomers who can use lyric sheets or tablets effectively but most can't take their eyes off them, and that makes for a very disengaged performance. 

I have used cue sheets - basically the first few words of each verse - on songs I've just learned, but I find that the best way to memorize lyrics is to forget them in front of an audience. :-D


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I think that for a casual jam at a buddy's BBQ sure, no problem. However, there's nothing more unprofessional than a paid band with a singer reading lyrics on any medium. I mean really, everyone else memorizes their guitar parts etc. Why should the singer be held to a different standard? Besides, the singer is generally the front man and it's kind of hard to connect with the audience and ENTERTAIN them with your face in a piece of paper or looking at an ipad. If I see a pro band with a singer reading lyrics I would ask for my money back and walk out. How hard is it to learn the lyrics and arrangement to a song you, presumably, have played 100+ times?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Depends on the gig. If you're a local bar band, hell no. If you're taking all requests at a retirement home, go for it. If you're an original band, stay home and practice til you know your stuff.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Twenty years ago I would have said no. Now I can't remember the lyrics to songs I write let alone covers. I do try to just use them to cue me. I like to look at the audience as much as possible.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

I’ve got no problem with it provided it is discreet and one is not hiding behind a wide music stand and binder.

I use an iPad and keep it waist high so to not obscure view.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Just about everyone I know has lyrics on stage in some form or other. A band I used to play in the singer has an empty cabinet of a big monitor that used to house a 15" speaker. In it he has it connected to a laptop and he remote controls the lyrics. From the audience it looks like another monitor. 
The band I'm playing in now the singer is 68 and insists on memorizing the words. He's pretty good at it but I think he runs out of room in his brain storage to remember some of the arrangements.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

I've never tried using this method. See 8:45 here...
The Day the Universe Changed: 4 Printing Transforms Knowledge : Burke, James, 1936- : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The best musicians had music stands, it meant they could read, they were educated.


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2018)

Is it age or process? When I was young and wanted to learn a song I had to first buy the record. Then play it over and over, lifting the needle back to get the words written down. I would then rewrite the words again once or twice to have then neatly written on 1-2 sheets of paper. By the time I was done, I would pretty much have them memorized. Today I just print them off, so there are no memory triggers, just another page of text.


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2018)

Mid 80's. We fired our singer 3 days before a gig.
I had a shit load of songs to memorize.
I'd remember the words, but would get the verse order mixed up. lol
I wrote a few words of each on the set list we taped on the floor monitors.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Player99 said:


> Is it age or process? When I was young and wanted to learn a song I had to first buy the record. Then play it over and over, lifting the needle back to get the words written down. I would then rewrite the words again once or twice to have then neatly written on 1-2 sheets of paper. By the time I was done, I would pretty much have them memorized. Today I just print them off, so there are no memory triggers, just another page of text.


I agree. The process you describe gets it into your head better than printing it off. Although we also know that memory declines with age so both factors are at work. But you also have to “work” on a song to the point where you are wearing it and not just reading the lines as you go along.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Speaking for myself, i cant remember words to any of the songs i have been doing for over 20 years. So i need lyric sheets when playing. I really dont care what people think about it as its usually musicians or signers that will comment on it and we all now how fussy we are.LOL.


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

Someone told me once that the one difference between a professional and an amateur is that the professional knows how to cheat better.

I'm definitely in the amateur side of the game but when I got one of those mic stand iPad holders, it was a massive game changer. I'm all for it. And I do a lot of presentations at work, I bring notes too. People will know if you are reading, so I think the difference is between a singer reading the lyrics, or singing the song; not whether there is a computer, iPad, music stand, or notes on stage.


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2018)

Lord-Humongous said:


> difference between a professional and an amateur is that the professional knows how to cheat better.


or how to cover their ass.


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## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

Our goofy old guy band has one guy still using paper on a music stand. I showed him a pic from a gig, and how you couldn't even see his guitar. Everyone else has an iPad, and they're far less distracting.

I sing only about 7 or 8 songs, and I'm at the point where the iPad is a safety net. I don't refer to it at all. I hope I can continue that. I agree with the comments about not wanting to watch someone read an entire song. There's no audience connection.


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## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

even hard to remember my nephews and nieces names, so of course, always a chord chart / lyric sheet in front of my guitar


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I must admit...I find it surprising how many people here think it's okay.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

JBFairthorne said:


> I must admit...I find it surprising how many people here think it's okay.


A google search reveals these artists all use (or used) teleprompters:
Bruce Springsteen
Brian Johnson
Chris Robinson
Gwen Stefani
Paul McCartney
Tom Petty
Elton John
Barbra Streisand
John Mayer
Mick Jagger
Dr. Dre
Eminem
Prince
Neil Young
John Mellencamp
Joe Bonamassa
Axl Rose
Bono

And probably many others...


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I used to be against it, but it has it's benefits. I'm conflicted


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## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

Its one thing to be a touring band playing the same original 15-20 songs gig after gig. Then of course likely everyone has things memorized. On the other hand when playing covers and doing gigs that prefer certain genre's, ie we did a brazilian theme fund raiser this spring. Learned 6 latin tunes three weeks prior to the gig along with the rest of the material we already have. We try to be professional at all times. Part of that is playing and singing the songs as they are meant to be done. Honestly, could not care less what someone might think if they see a music stand / ipad / in front of a musician. It is the sound the audience hears from the group, that is all that matters (to me).
If part of the act is lights, smoke and arobics, well maybe then a music stand is out of place


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

I don't like it. I don't think it looks professional and if we're getting paid to play, we should know what we're playing. 

It's one thing to have a cheat sheet for a song that's relatively new to you, but I've seen binders full of lyrics on music stands on-stage and that really gets to me.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Yep the old I pad on the mic stand . I can hardly wait to see one lose its battery or just stop working in the middle of a set. Some people are lost with out them.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I think it's different for cover bands vs original bands
Cover bands - Who cares
Original band and you can't remember the lyrics to songs you wrote? Lame.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

It may look unprofessional, but I'm not a professional musician.

I do this in my spare time, not full time. There's a difference.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

After doing this for over 50 years, i can tell you that no one in the audience cares about lyrics on stage. They just want to have a good time and party. Another good point is that if you are playing over 200 songs of different styles, then i am sure you need some help. Its not like playing 20 songs night after night on tour.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

My thought is I would rather have a lyric stand off to the side or monitor , then mess up or forget the lyrics of the song ..I think that’s not very professional.
People are singing along to the songs ....it’s more important you get it right then a lyric stand sitting there ..I bet if you question people leaving , did the singer have a lyrics stand , most everybody would not even recall, other then the odd musician that was piss off by it...


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

marcos said:


> After doing this for over 50 years, i can tell you that no one in the audience cares about lyrics on stage. They just want to have a good time and party. Another good point is that if you are playing over 200 songs of different styles, then i am sure you need some help. Its not like playing 20 songs night after night on tour.


Some people in the audience care. When our band was active, I was surprised that a few people complimented us for not using binders/tablets. It wasn't a tonne of people, but some do notice and care. FWIW, it happened more when we were sharing the night with bands that did use binders.

The other problem that I have with binders/tablets is that they seem to impede communication between band members (i.e. breaks and endings aren't as tight) - again, there are bands that work through that, but for most, it makes for a weaker performance.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

bw66 said:


> Some people in the audience care. When our band was active, I was surprised that a few people complimented us for not using binders/tablets. It wasn't a tonne of people, but some do notice and care. FWIW, it happened more when we were sharing the night with bands that did use binders.
> 
> The other problem that I have with binders/tablets is that they seem to impede communication between band members (i.e. breaks and endings aren't as tight) - again, there are bands that work through that, but for most, it makes for a weaker performance.


Weaker performance? I disagree.
How is something to help me get the lyrics right weak?

Chances are, the only people that commented on the stands are other musicians.

Unless you're a full time touring musician, lighten up, have fun and just play your music.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I don’t care either way.

So what?! Weaker performance, nah don’t think so. 

_Do what you have to do to make the gig work! 

Sometimes it can be a daunting task at best. _


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Given that some of the most successful artists in history use screens or even lyric sheets for their own music, I'm not gonna sweat it if a bar band does it. Professional? It's less professional to forget the words to a song in the middle and flub your way through. Most times I've seen an artist perform with lyric sheets or an iPad or something, it hasn't taken away from their performance.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

sulphur said:


> Weaker performance? I disagree.
> How is something to help me get the lyrics right weak?
> 
> Chances are, the only people that commented on the stands are other musicians.
> ...


I think the implication is that people using the binder/iPad as a crutch end-up just not learning the song. I've played with a few people like that, where you play the same song dozens of times in rehearsal and on-stage and months later, they still don't know the words/arrangement/chords. Some are just not great musicians, but one guy I know is a monster player and a good singer, he just can't ever remember lyrics, so yes - he's lost on stage without them. If you're constantly trying to look down to read lyrics, then there's no way you're playing that song as well as you could if you knew everything backwards and forwards.

I don't like ever seeing lyrics on-stage, but it's much worse when the singer is blatantly reading every single word. It's super-obvious to the audience. If it's there as a last-line-of-defense in case of a huge brain fart, but you're mostly not reading off it, fine, whatever - you do you. But constant reference to the binder? Might as well stay in the garage or basement.


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## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

Some of the best musicians I have played with have their charts handy and ready to go. Everything is pro about them. I have had gigs where we meet the night of the gig and have never rehearsed together. A good chart laid out well eliminates all confusion of any particular song that we are about to play ( in my opinion)


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

dgreen said:


> Some of the best musicians I have played with have their charts handy and ready to go. Everything is pro about them. I have had gigs where we meet the night of the gig and have never rehearsed together. A good chart laid out well eliminates all confusion of any particular song that we are about to play ( in my opinion)


For musicians of a certain level of facility with the instrument, this is true. Session musicians, etc. all work this way. However, the bands that I've seen who are using charts/sheets/etc are _not_ of this caliber. Having said that, I've seen a number of pro acts who play 200+ shows a year between bar, event, and wedding gigs who don't have any help on-stage and that's still my preference.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

sulphur said:


> ... lighten up, have fun and just play your music.


It's not like binders and tablets make me angry, I just think that, in general, working from memory makes for a better performance. That's all.

I have used cue sheets and charts when performing and I don't feel bad about it, but honestly, I actually find it more fun to play and sing from memory too. YMMV


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## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

yes, and in all honesty, most of the charts I play I do memorize. Often my binder is just out there, kind of like a kid with his security blanket, just knowing it is there.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

The big issue comes when all you old folks combine your lyric sheets with a a set of reading glasses and lose all interaction and eye contact with the crowd.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

cboutilier said:


> The big issue comes when all you old folks combine your lyric sheets with a a set of reading glasses and lose all interaction and eye contact with the crowd.


LOL, that is true for me. Good thing i'm not the main signer


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

I’ve talked about this before; my entire musical career is based on my ability to read on sight. 

I co-lead a 14 piece band that performs music from the 20s to the 40s. The only reasonable way to organize a band like this is with charts. The great thing about this is that we can have subs inthe band with very little worry about train wrecks - in fact, we’ve never had one! It also means we never have to rehearse. We’re actually at the point where we write new arrangements and _play them for the first time on the gig!
_
I think that it’s a very smart thing to chart your band’s arrangements in some sort of form. I hear of groups all the time that need a last minute sub, and invariably that means finding someone who can memorize loads of tunes in an incredibly short time. I have charted everything for my surf project. It means I can draw from a large pool of reading musicians. We rehearse, but if I needed an emergency sub for a gig, it wouldn’t be a panic situation.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

I hate it as an audience member. I understand it but really don't like it as a band member. I think it is lazy and that laziness is contagious, I use lyric sheets in one band because everyone else does, but not for the songs I sing lead on. It kills communication and spontaneity.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Yeah, Mick Jagger and Bruce Springsteen sure are lazy


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I use a tablet for acoustic gigs where you get requests for songs you may only do once every 5 years. With the bands I may have the tablet hidden behind a main speaker if I need to reference a new song. Otherwise I advise against them - you will never learn the words if all you do is read them. My other guitar player can't go anywhere without his book - he doesn't even know the key without it and we are constantly waiting for him to be ready for the next song. He only actually sings 3 songs and has been doing the same 3 for years. Having to keep an eye on the next line takes all of your focus out of the actual performance too.

Lose the lyrics.


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## fnDan (Oct 8, 2015)

I personally don't like having lyrics on stage. I practice enough to remember the lyrics but... when it came time for an encore song and the rest of the band chose a song we didn't practice often (and the drummer specifically didn't want in the set list), I was good until the 3rd verse. Drawing a complete blank is a horrible feeling. I'll have my iPad propped on the stage monitor next time. I'll fake a quick guitar tune and check the lyrics.
Our other singer plays keyboard so lyric sheets look like part of her instrument.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

I always had cheat notes in school, what the problem is?


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

This has been anterestung thread. Myself I have reached a point in life where if I didn’t have my lyrics I wouldn’t be on stage.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Chitmo said:


> I always had cheat notes in school, what the problem is?


I think you may have answered your own question, there!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

cboutilier said:


> The big issue comes when all you old folks combine your lyric sheets with a a set of reading glasses and lose all interaction and eye contact with the crowd.


LOL It's all about the font size. If I print lyrics, I fill the page with ink (plus, shortcuts and not duplicating chorus, etc). I can read it laying on the floor beside the monitor if I have to. Meanwhile, I'm not really sure if I have the cab plugged into the correct impedance tap on the amp - because I can't see that shit in the dark anymore without glasses. 


There's a big difference between 'reading the lyrics' and 'singing a song, occasionally referencing lyrics', IMO. It's possible to glance at lyrics and still engage with the audience the vast majority of the gig - I watch my singer do it every night we play. 

We change our setlist every gig. The core 70% may remain the same, but that other rotating 30% is the tough stuff. We often play the same places, the same crowds (which I guess says something good) and I think it's better to give them some different material (even if that means 1 music stand mounted very low and off to the side) compared to playing the same 40 songs over and over and over and over again. I don't know if we'd get as many return gigs if we didn't change it up a bit. 

Plus, we sometimes learn a new song and find out it just doesn't work. How much time are you willing to invest in that scenario? I'll 'invest' in the guitar part, because that's what I love. But the lyrics take a lot of work for my simple, task-oriented brain. Over time, if a song becomes a staple, I think the lyric learning just happens. 

Of course, this is very different to originals bands. They have much different aspirations and goals. I get that. If you do one or two sets of the same originals over and over, yea, you should probably own that. Even though so many pros don't anymore.


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## Rozz (Aug 1, 2018)

jdto said:


> A google search reveals these artists all use (or used) teleprompters:
> Axl Rose


I thought if he forgot the words he just walked off stage. ;-)


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Rozz said:


> I thought if he forgot the words he just walked off stage. ;-)


Not with AC/DC, apparently 

He finally learned what it means to play with a professional band.


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