# Please Explain The Other $1800.00 To Me



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I know I'm not he brightest guy when it comes to different guitar models. However, I just don't get this. Here are two Gibson LP's. One is $700.00 and one is $2500.00. Will someone please explain to me in cold hard facts (not emotions) where the extra $1800.00 is in the standard premium?

[h=1]Gibson 2012 Les Paul Standard Premium AA Electric Guitar[/h]









[h=3]Features[/h]

Mahogany body
Carved AAA flame maple top (plain top on solid colors)
24.75" Scale mahogany '60s slim-taper set neck
Rosewood fretboard with compound radius
22 Medium frets
Trapezoid inlay
Gibson Burstbucker Pro humbucking neck pickup with coil-tap
Gibson Burstbucker Pro humbucking bridge pickup with coil-tap
Individual volume and tone controls
2 Push/Pull Tone controls
3-Way pickup selector
Tune-o-matic bridge
Stopbar tailpiece
Grover locking keystone tuning machines
Price: $2500.00
[h=1]Gibson LPJ Electric Guitar[/h]








[h=3]Features[/h]

Mahogany body with “traditional” weight relief
Carved maple top
24.75" Scale maple neck with '50s rounded profile
Rosewood fretboard with trapezoid Inlays
Chrome tune-o-matic bridge
Black button tuning machines with 16:1 gear ratio
Gibson 490R/498T humbucking pickups with black covers
No pickguard
Black speed knobs
“2013 Model” on back of headstock
“LPJ” truss rod cover
Price: $700.00


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## noman (Jul 24, 2006)

More care taken in the build of the expensive model. It will probably play and sound better. I have a lot of stratocasters and yes, my custom shop strats just play better and are set-up better. That said, with a bit of tweaking, you can get a cheaper guitar to set-up like an expensive one.


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

i've often wondered this but i don't think anyone will ever agree on a definitive answer. The flame maple top and binding makes it look prettier and adds to the material and labour cost, but does it play and sound all that much better? I don't have much experience with them but it doesn't make sense that it would. The only mechanical differences I can see are the pickups and the tuners...but that's what a 150$ difference in price? Sounds like marketing 101 in action. Having said that i'd love to have a LP standard. I guess i'm a sucker for clever marketing.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

It won't be enough for you but....

At first glance...pick-ups,wiring ,tuners,binding ,figured top, finish,compound radius neck on the premium,no hardshell case with the LPJ,

might be more

FYI the Goldtop LPJ is more expensive than the price posted .


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## keto (May 23, 2006)

It's almost entirely finishing, and the costs associated
-binding, neck and body
-typically, they use better body wood
-better grade of maple for the top (thus the 'AA' designation)
-big one cost wise is the gloss finish

Oh, there's $20 (my imagining on cost to Gibson) worth of tuners, and a few dollars here and there on parts, but you're almost entirely talking fit and finishing labour costs.
LPJ (at least in cherry, the only one they list) is $685 at L&M http://www.long-mcquade.com/product...n/LPJ_2013_Electric_Guitar_-_Satin_Cherry.htm I don't see a Standard with AA top on their site.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I've often made the same comparison of higher end LPs vs Studios....it's a lot of money for what often boils down to binding and prestige.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Bubb said:


> It won't be enough for you but....
> 
> At first glance...pick-ups,wiring ,tuners,binding ,figured top, finish,compound radius neck on the premium,no hardshell case with the LPJ,
> 
> ...


MF has it for $699.99 and you can get 15% off of that with a little haggling and often times they have 15% off on anything $300.00 or more. 

As for the other things you mentioned, that is nowhere close to $1800.00. I have worked for large international manufacturers. The difference in standard and premium is 10% at best. Even at 20% that is not even close to $1800.00 difference.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

nkjanssen said:


> Yep. Sells for $850. So, the $1,800 difference is actually a $1,650 difference. If pickups, tuners and wiring are maybe $200 difference, that's a $1,450 difference. Case and compound neck radius, we're maybe to $1,250. Binding, AAA figured top and finish are maybe a $500 to $600 upcharge. Premium body wood (assuming that's the case) is a few hundred dollars. Maybe a couple of hundred in other odds, ends and intangibles.
> 
> ...there's your difference.


Sorry, but pickups, tuner and wiring cost would be $15.00-20.00. There is really no manufacturing cost difference in those things. Case difference perhaps $50.00. Compound neck radius, is peanuts. Making a neck is basically making a neck. The AAA top and binding is very little as well. Remember these things are all being purchased in huge quantities and are done on machines. The cost in parts and manufacturing difference might at the top end be $200.00; maybe $250.00 with the case.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

Bubb said:


> It won't be enough for you but....


told ya :wave:

The gold finish is $849 at MF btw.

A guitar is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it ,no more ,no less .
Same as virtually every other consumer item,if you notice you can get $25 coffee makers and $100 coffee makers,and they both do the same thing .

It's more than apparent to anybody who has been here for more than 5 minutes that you think Gibson is the devil and their guitars are not worth the price.

If you don't see the value/difference,don't buy one,it's easy.
There are plenty guitars at all price points.

Gibson seems to know their market just fine .

As an aside,I'd bet there is more than a 10% increase in labour between the two guitars for starters.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Bubb said:


> As an aside,I'd bet there is more than a 10% increase in labour between the two guitars for starters.


That may be part of it, although most of it is produced on a CNC machine isn't it?


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

see here -- > http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/309-gibson-usa.aspx


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Bubb said:


> see here -- > http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/309-gibson-usa.aspx


That's from Gibson. They are not going to admit that there is little difference between two guitars with almost $2000.00 difference between them. 

And as far as your accusation about me picking on Gibson, it's not Gibson. Fender, PRS and other manufacturers do the same thing. I can pick out two similar guitars from their product lines that have a similar price difference.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

I posted that in response to your question regarding the labour costs and cnc machines,not about the differences between the two guitars ,to show how much hands-on work is actually done .
I wasn't accusing you of picking on anybody,just making an observation .

I get the fact you don`t see the point in paying the asking price for premium guitar,but plenty of people do .


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Bubb said:


> I get the fact you don`t see the point in paying the asking price for premium guitar,but plenty of people do .


True. I also drive a nice car but it's not a Lexus, Cadillac or Infiniti.


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## allanr (Jan 11, 2012)

Buy the cheaper one. The expensive one was made for somebody else.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Any item of a "status" nature, be it a sports car, handbag or premium guitar has an overly expanded profit margin. The rule of marketing is to sell the item for what customers are willing to pay for it, rather than for a percentage markup. 

Look at designer clothes and women's handbags. A Gucci canvas shoulder bag goes for $3100! So if you think guitar makers are profiteering.....


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Steadly, I will make the argument that you're the one being fooled by marketing. Just b/c they both say Les Paul on the headstock & the respective spec sheets list mahogany & maple, 2 humbucking pickups, 17 degree neck pitch etc., odds are pretty good that they're not the same thing. Spend a some time playing the various models & you may understand.

Besides the labour involved in binding, inlays, gloss finishes etc., there's something to be said for the wood. In my experience the lighter, more resonant pieces are used on the more costly guitars (R9s under 9 lbs are the norm but it's pretty rare to find a lightweight R8), whereas the lower end models are often spliced together from several smaller pieces. Ever notice that cheaper guitars are usually finished in a solid, opaque colour? That's to hide the knots & glue joints. 

I have more experience w/ SGs than Lesters (owned about a dozen in the past few yrs., from Epis to vintage), so here's how I'd differentiate the current Gibson lineup as it pertains to the SG:

Std Faded - bodies pieced together from several (i.e. up to 5) smaller strips of wood, pickups, pots & caps need upgrading (add at least $250, more if you're not handy w/ a soldering iron &/or buy new pickups). Manufacturing cost also reduced by a lack of labour-intensive binding, trap inlays, gloss finish.

USA Std - gloss finish & trap inlays but still has a short neck tenon & needs better electronics.

61 RI - one-piece bodies are more common, excellent pickups (57s just work in an all-mahogany guitar) & I'm probably not alone in preferring the look of the early 60s small guard over a batwing. Despite having a more desirable tone & look, these often have tuning issues due to the combination of a slim neck that has a short tenon & is joined to the body at the 22nd fret

Custom Shop/VOS - long neck tenon, one-piece body, easier to find one w/ a fatter neck, nitro finish, great playability as the frets have been Plek'd. I have a 2007 model that is excellent after a few minor tweaks, but also owned a Pelham Blue 2010 that was absolutely spectacular right out of the box. One of the best guitars I've ever owned, maybe I should have refused that offer. FWIW, the Nashville CS has really upped their game in the last 3-4 yrs.

Although the law of diminishing return applies (your average VOS guitar is definitely better than your average Std Faded, it's not 3X better), don't forget that after HST a used R8/VOS SG is about the same price as a new US LP/61 RI SG. In any case, I would never buy a guitar w/out playing it first, esp. a new one (let somebody else absorb the taxes & depreciation).


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Bubb said:
> 
> 
> > see here -- > http://www2.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/309-gibson-usa.aspx
> ...


If I understand this comment correctly, are you trying to say that a PRS SE is the same thing as one of their US models? Or a MIM Fender on par w/ a Custom Shop model? 

Have you ever owned any high end guitars? Playing one for a few minutes in a store doesn't count as they're often not set up before hitting the floor, so you won't always get a true picture. I'm curious if you're genuinely int'd in the differences or simply have an axe to grind.

P.S. I agree w/ Bubb, you tend to pick on Gibson the most.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Roryfan said:


> If I understand this comment correctly, are you trying to say that a PRS SE is the same thing as one of their US models? Or a MIM Fender on par w/ a Custom Shop model?
> 
> Have you ever owned any high end guitars? Playing one for a few minutes in a store doesn't count as they're often not set up before hitting the floor, so you won't always get a true picture. I'm curious if you're genuinely int'd in the differences or simply have an axe to grind.
> 
> P.S. I agree w/ Bubb, you tend to pick on Gibson the most.


I have no axe to grind and I truly wanted to know if anyone could explain the differences. So far, I have not heard anything that explains such a large cost difference. I think Krelf in post #19 explains it best.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Two words...mo jo. 8)

Speak with your wallet, if you have a problem with the pricing.


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## Option1 (May 26, 2012)

Bubb said:


> ...
> 
> A guitar is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it ,no more ,no less .
> Same as virtually every other consumer item,if you notice you can get $25 coffee makers and $100 coffee makers,and they both do the same thing .
> ...


QFT 

(and some additional characters that add no value whatsoever except to obscure the actual post)

Neil


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

I have a 2010 Les Paul Studio and a 2012 Less Paul Traditional. They cost me 999.99 and 1699.99. The Studio is a very nice guitar and I really enjoy it. When I'm practicing I usually start off with this guitar. The Traditional is a great guitar too, it's one of the L&M Limited Editions produced for Gibson month. I usually finish off practicing with either this guitar or one of my Strats. Is the Traditional worth 700 bucks more? I think so, it sounds incredible, looks incredible and has a better finish. Looking at the two side by side you can see the Traditional was built that much better. I look at Les Pauls this way, Studio's, LPJ's and the Tribute models are great entry level Les Pauls that even the most experienced players will enjoy. You get the Les Paul feel and they sound very close to the higher end Standards and Traditionals. The Standards and Traditional models are more for the very experienced players and guys with money that like to show off.


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

I think a less arguable difference would be between something like the LP standard and the LP custom

1500$ more for mostly imaginary differences.

"Nashville" tune-o-matic? 
"Warm Toned" Body (as opposed to the cold, dead toned standard?)
Split diamond inlay on the headstock is sure pretty. wish they'd do that with all of them.
think that's about it.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

I would guess that the difference in cost of materials is less than $150, but you guys are underestimating the extra labour - the fret nibs etc etc. 

Not that there is anywhere near enough to properly justify the extra $1650 or whatever it is... that's made up by "what the market will pay", it's the money for nothing part of the equation that you're able to charge when you're the exclusive manufacturer of an item that has a good market demand.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

mike_oxbig said:


> I think a less arguable difference would be between something like the LP standard and the LP custom
> 
> 1500$ more for mostly imaginary differences.
> 
> ...


50s Customs were all mahogany but most Customs built in the 70s & 80s had a maple cap, so they were basically a Std w/ an ebony board & different inlays. A lot of the 70s Customs also had maple necks, so they were quite bright & responded well to speed picking, hence the popularity with the metal guys of that era (Randy Rhoads & John Sykes come to mind). The CS Custom that you're referring to (usually identifiable by a Custom Shop logo painted on the back of the headstock) is similar to the 70s & 80s maple-capped Customs, whereas the Historic/VOS Custom is an accurate replica of the orginal design from the 50s (those guitars have a very unique voice - cutting but not ice picky, very round). 

An all mahogany guitar should be warmer than one with a maple cap, although I've found that the ebony vs. RW fingerboard usually trumps all in terms of brightness & an all-hog 50s spec Custom will be brighter than a Std. But I've also played late 70s Customs that were dull & woolly despite have a maple cap/neck & ebony board. Sorry for the esoteric terms like "round" & "woolly", you really have to play them back-to-back & listen to the differences, don't get too caught up in the spec sheet.

Although I would normally say that it's not fair to compare a USA guitar to a Custom Shop guitar, I'm not a big fan of the maple-capped CS Custom. The stock 498/490 pups are terrible, the quality of the stuff coming out of Memphis has been somewhat inconsistent & the playability of the Trads is great thanks to the Pleking. If you want a bright, maple cap Custom then look for a mid 80s model. You can find them for well under $3K & the Tim Shaw pups are fantastic.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

nkjanssen said:


> Yes you have. You're just not listening.


I could say the same. I know there are two sides to this and as you look at the posts, some feel as I do and some feel as you do. 

I used to work for a company that offered premier units over the standard product. The company's cost was minimal but the customer's cost was a huge up charge. The real differences in the two similar products was hidden from the customer. Most companies do this. It is wrong in my viewpoint. It was wrong of the company who I worked for and when I was asked my opinion by a customer I told them the truth. Fender, Gibson, PRS and others also hide the true difference in their standard product and the "premiere" one. If a customer wants to pay for this, that is up to him. It's the hiding of the true facts about the difference that is wrong.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

I spent/wasted a lot of time & money trying to "beat the man" by upgrading Epiphones. By the time I'd done the upgrades (always swapped out pickups, pots & caps, sometimes the bridge &/or tuners) I could have purchased a used "real one". Trouble is, most of the Epis were never quite as good as the real ones (playability - Epis are not Plek'd, resonance - see earlier comments about wood selection, I won't even go down the poly vs. nitro road) & whenever I sold the Epi, I did not recoup the $$$ I'd spent to upgrade it. 

So I decided to just buy what I wanted in the first place & be done with it. By purchasing gently used USA or CS guitars, I can usually break even if I decide to move it. If I'm out $100, no big deal, I view that as a rental fee. But I'm not losing $300-500 each & every time like I did with the Epis.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I have owned guitars from $200 to $5000 in price. The ones that to me were just perfect in terms of materials, workmanship and a downright joy to play were from Heritage and Hamer. Most guitar companies have adopted the low end high end philosophy in order to not lose out on a sale to people that desire to own that brand. ie kids. Even PRS does it. GM, Ford and Chrysler still do it. You started with Chevy and moved up. 

There are many little details that you will notice when handling both. The woods, the fretboards and fret wire. The finish of the necks, the binding. Obviously the hardware and guts are of a cheaper quality in order to keep the costs down. Will they both play? Sure. The people that assemble the low end models are not the same people that work on the high end models. They do not have the same experience or level of craftsmanship. They are essentially assembly line guitars. They work and they have a place in the market. But I challenge you to run your hands down the neck of a finely crafted guitar and then a budget guitar. Run your hands all over the body and all the joints, they will be just about perfect. They don't sound as well either IMO. I was over at my daughters the other night. Her BF plays drums so I went down to jam with him for a bit. He had a Chinese made Gretsch down there running through a decent tube amp. I could not get a decent sound out of that guitar, certainly nothing like I get out of mine. Next time I will bring some of my gear over there and blow his skull.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> I could say the same. I know there are two sides to this and as you look at the posts, some feel as I do and some feel as you do.
> 
> I used to work for a company that offered premier units over the standard product. The company's cost was minimal but the customer's cost was a huge up charge. The real differences in the two similar products was hidden from the customer. Most companies do this. It is wrong in my viewpoint. It was wrong of the company who I worked for and when I was asked my opinion by a customer I told them the truth. Fender, Gibson, PRS and others also hide the true difference in their standard product and the "premiere" one. If a customer wants to pay for this, that is up to him. It's the hiding of the true facts about the difference that is wrong.


I dont feel Gibson is hiding anything like you suppose they are. Where's that $1800? It's in the name: "studio" versus "standard". We all know it, and we've known it for a while. It's plain as day and some people can afford the difference. No hidden crap here, the spec sheets tell all: you pay a premium to own the premium version.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> I could say the same. I know there are two sides to this and as you look at the posts, some feel as I do and some feel as you do.
> 
> I used to work for a company that offered premier units over the standard product. The company's cost was minimal but the customer's cost was a huge up charge. The real differences in the two similar products was hidden from the customer. Most companies do this. It is wrong in my viewpoint. It was wrong of the company who I worked for and when I was asked my opinion by a customer I told them the truth. Fender, Gibson, PRS and others also hide the true difference in their standard product and the "premiere" one. If a customer wants to pay for this, that is up to him. It's the hiding of the true facts about the difference that is wrong.


How do Gibson, Fender & PRS "hide the true facts about the difference"? 

Most companies have several levels of product & often have very slim margins on their lower-end line. They use this to generate traffic for their stores, gain market share from a competitor, introduce their products to a younger/poorer demographic in hopes of creating brand loyalty for when those folks can afford their premier product, etc. You can buy a McDouble for $1.39 but a Big Mac is $4.29. I'm pretty sure the lettuce, sauce, extra piece of cheese & sesame seed bun don't cost Mickey D's $3, but I fail to see how a common business practice is unethical. How about when a grocery store puts cheese or detergent in the flyer below cost (i.e. a loss leader). Is it unethical for them to charge their regular price on the same item the next week? What percentage of mark up would you deem acceptable for a business to make?


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Budda said:


> I dont feel Gibson is hiding anything like you suppose they are. Where's that $1800? It's in the name: "studio" versus "standard". We all know it, and we've known it for a while. It's plain as day and some people can afford the difference. No hidden crap here, the spec sheets tell all: you pay a premium to own the premium version.


Absolutely, I've been playing since 1993 and I've known since shortly after that when I started educating myself. Really, I'm sure many knew right from when the first Studios were launched...what would that be, mid 80's?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I have owned guitars from $200 to $5000 in price. The ones that to me were just perfect in terms of materials, workmanship and a downright joy to play were from Heritage and Hamer. Most guitar companies have adopted the low end high end philosophy in order to not lose out on a sale to people that desire to own that brand. ie kids. Even PRS does it. GM, Ford and Chrysler still do it. You started with Chevy and moved up.
> 
> There are many little details that you will notice when handling both. The woods, the fretboards and fret wire. The finish of the necks, the binding. Obviously the hardware and guts are of a cheaper quality in order to keep the costs down. Will they both play? Sure. The people that assemble the low end models are not the same people that work on the high end models. They do not have the same experience or level of craftsmanship. They are essentially assembly line guitars. They work and they have a place in the market. But I challenge you to run your hands down the neck of a finely crafted guitar and then a budget guitar. Run your hands all over the body and all the joints, they will be just about perfect. They don't sound as well either IMO. I was over at my daughters the other night. Her BF plays drums so I went down to jam with him for a bit. He had a Chinese made Gretsch down there running through a decent tube amp. I could not get a decent sound out of that guitar, certainly nothing like I get out of mine. Next time I will bring some of my gear over there and blow his skull.


There is not doubt that is often true. It's just not $1800.00 true or in some cases $3000.00-8000.00 true. Budda in his post, #33 gets as close to the truth as we can get. Yes, the automotive companies do it as well. They make very little on the budget cars but on the higher end models and trucks, the margin of profit goes up big time.



> Next time I will bring some of my gear over there and _*blow his skull.*_


 You don't like your daughter's boyfriend?


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I agree that a bunch of the cost would be tied up in labor.

Big difference in time and effort on a bound guitar, as opposed to unbound.
Not only the time to route and install, but scraping that binding down during the finishing process.
Tedious and time consuming, most likely by a skilled craftsmans hands.
No CNC machine in the process beyond shaping and routing.

Upgraded hardware and woods too, it all adds up.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

One part of the equation is pride, status and one-upmanship. When I was in my teens (many years ago) a guy in my class got a telecaster while everyone else was playing mostly tiesco products. He was envied big time

There is a hierarchy among guitars, just as there is in cars and houses. It doesn't mean a damn to many of us, but to those who get caught up in it, spending big bucks to get the admiration and envy of others seems to be a worthwhile pursuit. There's no doubt that some cheaper priced instruments manufactured by lesser known companies can provide superior value for price paid.

However what is displayed on the headstock is a big issue for many players. That's one of stuggles that G&L have when competing with fender.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)




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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Krelf said:


> One part of the equation is pride, status and one-upmanship. When I was in my teens (many years ago) a guy in my class got a telecaster while everyone else was playing mostly tiesco products. He was envied big time
> 
> There is a hierarchy among guitars, just as there is in cars and houses. It doesn't mean a @#!*% to many of us, but to those who get caught up in it, spending big bucks to get the admiration and envy of others seems to be a worthwhile pursuit. There's no doubt that some cheaper priced instruments manufactured by lesser known companies can provide superior value for price paid.
> 
> However what is displayed on the headstock is a big issue for many players. That's one of stuggles that G&L have when competing with fender.


Agreed 100%.



nkjanssen said:


> To you, it's not. To me it's not. To others it is._* I imagine you'd think I'm crazy for drinking espresso when truck-stop coffee is much cheaper and "just as good".*_ It's all just roasted and ground beans with hot water, right? To me, though, it's night and day and well worth the price difference. Exact same thing.


If you are Greek or Italian, I would say you are sane. However, if you are of another nationality, you are completely bonkers.









You make a very valid point. Depending on what we put value on, we are often willing to pay much more for it. Sometimes there will be a compromise but if we can afford it, most of us will pay the extra. 

On the other hand, advertising companies have proved that marketing can make people perceive a difference or a huge difference when there is little or none.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm cheap & really wish that I couldn't hear the difference. But I can & it's hard to go back. My strategy now is consolidation, turn a few good guitars into one stellar instrument.

P.S. I'm not Greek or Italian but am also willing to spend $ on decent quality adult beverages (i.e. coffee, beer & wine). But I don't smoke or spend a lot of money on clothes, cars, vacations etc.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Roryfan said:


> I'm cheap & really wish that I couldn't hear the difference. But I can & it's hard to go back. My strategy now is consolidation, turn a few good guitars into one stellar instrument.
> 
> P.S. I'm not Greek or Italian but am also willing to spend $ on decent quality adult beverages (i.e. coffee, beer & wine). But I don't smoke or spend a lot of money on clothes, cars, vacations etc.


Correct me if I'm wrong but from reading this thread I gather... you modified an Epi and then got rid of it, because despite the fact you put 100's of dollars into it you could still hear the difference between it and a used low end Gibby, then you sold the Epi at a loss of $500, is that right?


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Sneaky said:


>


Sneeky you're right, you need say no more, a picture is worth 1000 words.

But to be honest everyone does it, it's called business...


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Jimmy_D said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but from reading this thread I gather... you modified an Epi and then got rid of it, because despite the fact you put 100's of dollars into it you could still hear the difference between it and a used low end Gibby, then you sold the Epi at a loss of $500, is that right?


No, that's not what I'm saying. After only having 2 guitars for many yrs. (an SRV Strat & a pre-fire Norman B-20 - still got the Norman) the G.A.S. began in earnest about 10 yrs. ago & since then I've owned close to 100 guitars. At first I was modding Epis & a couple of them ended up being pretty good, but the rest still left something to be desired, often in terms of playability. I don't recall all of the deals, but believe that I traded the SRV Strat, a USA Strat, a late 90s McCarty & some of the Epis in on a CS Strat, Thompson acoustic & an amp. The CS Strat sounded better than the SRV & USA Strats, so I traded them in. All of the Epis were long gone by the time I got my first CS Gibson, but I would always A/B my current guitar with the one that I was considering upgrading for, so I'm pretty confident that my VOS Gibsons will spank the beJeebus out of my old upgraded Epis.

The best of the Epis was an Explorer that I bought used for $500 & spent another $300+ on pups. Unfortunately I didn't have enough cash for whatever deal I did (CS Strat?) so I had to trade it & only got $400 (i.e. lost $400). A couple of yrs. later I picked up a used USA Explorer for $850 & didn't like the uber hot 500/496 pups but decided against swapping them b/c I couldn't get used to the skinny neck. This time I broke even when I sold it, maybe even made some lunch money.

Although there are some good ones (i.e. the earlier Studios) I haven't been overly impressed with most of the lower end guitars that Gibson is churning out right now, I would look for a used Traditional over a new Studio, you're probably in the same ballpark after paying HST. H-E-double hockey sticks there's a VOS SG on the forum for $1500 right now!


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

If I'm considering another guitar these days I always bring along a benchmark guitar from my herd. If the new-to-me guitar sounds & plays better than mine then I'll consider opening my wallet. This is how I've gradually upgraded my collection. But I've walked away from a lot of gear too, either b/c my current axe was better or I couldn't justify the cost to upgrade.

At the end of the day I truly believe that we're living in the second golden age of electric guitars. There's a plethora of choice w/ guitars for all playing styles & budgets. The boutique & custom shop gear rivals the iconic vintage designs & besides being relatively affordable is often a better choice in terms of reliability & playability. Even with the recent drop in the vintage market, not many of us will ever own a real '59 Lester so paying 2% of the vintage price for a reissue that's really darn close isn't too bad of a proposition.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I agree Rf.

With the big guys offering so many model choices and ranges,
plus the option of small builders, the choices are overwhelming sometimes.


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