# Average pay per gig?



## ThePass

My band is actually starting to take off, and gigs are coming in......but what's the "norm" (if any) for a good classic rock cover band (4-piece) to expect?

So far, most of these gigs we have been getting paid by keeping the cover charge at the door, while the bar get all the sales and stuff.......

Now, we want the exposure and publicity so we aren't turning these gig's down ~ yet ~ but when we grow a set and are in a position to say "hold on here...." what would the normal fee be?

I'm not expecting hundreds and hundreds of dollars here but there must be a "standard".

Or am I wrong?

Thanks all.


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## david henman

...$300-$400 appears to be the norm for a classic-rock cover band.

most club managers/owners expect you to perform, provide sound and lighting systems, AND fill the seats with your friends, family and fans.

still, beats trying to find work as an original band - some club managers/owners expect you to do all of the above AND pay them for the privilege of performing!


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## hollowbody

david henman said:


> ...$300-$400 appears to be the norm for a classic-rock cover band.
> 
> most club managers/owners expect you to perform, provide sound and lighting systems, AND fill the seats with your friends, family and fans.
> 
> still, beats trying to find work as an original band - some club managers/owners expect you to do all of the above AND pay them for the privilege of performing!


Yeah, $400 a night is pretty average. My band has been fighting to get up to $500 since we're a 5-piece. Some places may offer a cut of the bar, but then at the end of the night they'll tell you they didn't sell much, even though everyone is hammered. Oh well.

We were doing some shows for significantly less before, but at this point, I think we're gonna have to start turning those shows down. After factoring in time spent, rental fees for PA, gas, etc. some of those lower-paying shows end up costing me money. I don't mind breaking even, since I'm not looking to make a career here, but I don't want to be in the hole anymore.


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## ThePass

hollowbody said:


> We were doing some shows for significantly less before, but at this point, I think we're gonna have to start turning those shows down. After factoring in time spent, rental fees for PA, gas, etc. some of those lower-paying shows end up costing me money. I don't mind breaking even, since I'm not looking to make a career here, but I don't want to be in the hole anymore.



Thats exactly my dilemma.........after I BUY my dinner and drinks at the venue, what's left for me (and the bar) is just a strang money laundring ring, lol.


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## hollowbody

ThePass said:


> Thats exactly my dilemma.........after I BUY my dinner and drinks at the venue, what's left for me (and the bar) is just a strang money laundring ring, lol.


haha, just do what I do. go hungry and eat when you finally unpack all your shit at home at 4am!

Honestly, between packing up, loading in, sound check, playing, breakdown, unpacking at home, sometimes I'm looking at a 12+ hour day. For what? $100 less my expenses. Gee whiz, Mr. Bar Owner, thanks for giving me this great opportunity. I'm glad 100 people crammed themselves into your tiny bar with no stage, got shitfaced, spent thousands of dollars and you're gracious enough to give me and my bandmates a small portion of your earnings, half of which you recouped because it was so hot in here that I had to buy beers and cokes because you were "out of water."


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## ThePass

Hollowbody:

I couldn't agree more........lol


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## bcmatt

Yikes, this is rather disappointing. My band is just starting out, but from the couple gigs, they must have spoiled us. I was under the impression that it was standard for the bar to provide a free drink and meal to the band (and then a guarantee that they wouldn't run out of water - no one wants a drunk band -even if they think they do).
It seems that there may be too much competition between bands out in Ontario. You'd think if the band started proving themselves capable of consistently filling a bar, they should be getting payed into the thousands.
It's probably that the bar owners out there can treat bands like crap and always have 10 more waiting in reserve. It's not right, but hopefully all the bands will put their foot down. If they are providing a good service, they expect to get compensated... but to start, of course, we just want to play (without losing money) until we can prove ourselves. But that's the problem...unlimited bands hoping to prove themselves.


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## ThePass

BC:

Thats exactly it. If we don't take these gigs there are 10 bands waiting for them.

The pay sucks but like I said once we get our foot in the door we can pick/choose at will.

I hope.


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## hollowbody

ThePass said:


> BC:
> 
> Thats exactly it. If we don't take these gigs there are 10 bands waiting for them.
> 
> The pay sucks but like I said once we get our foot in the door we can pick/choose at will.
> 
> I hope.


Yeah, in Toronto the competition is fierce. If we turn down the gig, they can probably find someone else on the very next phone call.

I've gotten comped drinks once, but that was because the bar reneged on paying us (long story, but it wasn't their fault and they were trying to be nice to us). Other times I've had to pay for food and drinks, or at least for some of the food and drinks. But it depends on the place too. We're doing mostly smaller bars in teh West End of Toronto, I'm sure some of the larger venues in the core are different.

The other problem is that a lot of places that host live bands don't really _want_ a live band because we're too noisy, they might not like the material, etc. So they don't really bank on live music, no stage (or a tiny afterthought), no PA, no nothing. So the band is left doing all the legwork. I find most places are just as happy to turn on the iPod or satellite radio and go with that. Sad.


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## Mooh

Depending on the venue and date, $400 to $1000 per gig. That's not much for a 6 piece (vocal, harp, bass, keys, guitar, drums), but it's a small and weak market locally, and we don't like travel unless the pay is significantly better. Sometimes we pass the hat after the crowd is sufficiently lubricated, and have often got an extra couple hundred. Sometimes we play for less if it's a Legion gig as it's nearby, they treat us extrordinarily good, we support the Legion in other ways (most of the band are members), it's an early night (5-10ish), and they are a constant source of referrals.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Merlin

For a local gig, I expect $150/musician, double for the leader, plus HST for everyone.

Out of town - $200+ per musician, etc.

That being said, I've negotiated some interesting compromises for ongoing gigs. I work regularly with a trio. I got the venue to guarantee $150/musician plus HST for them, and I get 10% of the food and beverage sales for the time period we work. The place pays me by cheque, and includes the printout of the daily sales with an hourly breakdown. Sales are counted when the order is placed.

If the venue does well, so do I. Sidemen always get their minimum, so they're happy.

For the five piece I'm putting together, I'll probably take $750 + HST for the band, and not worry about the leader's premium for myself. Even if I do have to schlep the PA, organ and my own guitar stuff.


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## Merlin

hollowbody said:


> I find most places are just as happy to turn on the iPod or satellite radio and go with that. Sad.


Legally, they still have to pay for that. They may think they'll get away with it, but SOCAN will track them down and squeeze out the money.


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## allthumbs56

The project I'm currently with does a hybrid of Country and Classic Rock - enough tunes in both genres to play most places and can custonize our sets accordingly.

What I'm finding is that a locale that will feature live music has a price point and will not go beyond it. One local country bar hires a band for the weekend - 2 nights and a matinee and pays a flat $650. You don't want it? Don't take it - that's their approach and there seems to be enough bands that'll take it.

Another place pays $250 for a 4 hour matinee - I've seen 2 piece with drum machine, 3 piece, 4, and us - a 5 piece all fill the place and the owners don't care. We have an obligation for a few more matinees there (they pay better for Friday nights - but you have to do some matinees to get them) and then that's it. It's great fun to play there and the regulars keep us in beer but we can't keep taking 5 pieces in there - it only hurts our reputation. I may look at a scaled-down version - 3 pieces for the matinees.

Typically though we get $350 - $400 for a night and that's ok as long as we enjoy it but it sure isn't paying any bills. I made more 30 years ago.


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## CocoTone

You sir(Merlin), are the exception rather than the norm. I hope you guys are really really good, and keep new stuff coming all the time, else the bar owner is gonna come out of the ether soon, and you'll be just like the rest of us mooks, struggling for a 100 bux a head. If that.

CT.


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## ThePass

It's hard to earn a living in Canada, lol.....


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## Merlin

CocoTone said:


> You sir(Merlin), are the exception rather than the norm. I hope you guys are really really good, and keep new stuff coming all the time, else the bar owner is gonna come out of the ether soon, and you'll be just like the rest of us mooks, struggling for a 100 bux a head. If that.
> 
> CT.


To be clear - I often make less than my sidemen. However, the potential exists for me to make a lot more, so I keep promoting and the audience has kept building.


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## allthumbs56

Merlin said:


> For a local gig, I expect $150/musician, double for the leader, plus HST for everyone.
> 
> Out of town - $200+ per musician, etc.
> 
> That being said, I've negotiated some interesting compromises for ongoing gigs. I work regularly with a trio. I got the venue to guarantee $150/musician plus HST for them, and I get 10% of the food and beverage sales for the time period we work. The place pays me by cheque, and includes the printout of the daily sales with an hourly breakdown. Sales are counted when the order is placed.
> 
> If the venue does well, so do I. Sidemen always get their minimum, so they're happy.
> 
> For the five piece I'm putting together, I'll probably take $750 + HST for the band, and not worry about the leader's premium for myself. Even if I do have to schlep the PA, organ and my own guitar stuff.


I was going to ask how many gigs you're getting at those rates but I guess if you're bringing in enough to charge HST then you're pretty busy!


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## hollowbody

Merlin said:


> Legally, they still have to pay for that. They may think they'll get away with it, but SOCAN will track them down and squeeze out the money.


Oh for sure, I was just saying that a lot of places that claim they have live music seem to have nothing booked and are happy playing tunes. A lot of places don't want to have to deal with a loud band. Same goes for a lot of patrons. Some people really dig grooving to a live band, but there's just as many if not more who would rather have some music on in the background. It just depends on the venue.


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## Merlin

allthumbs56 said:


> I was going to ask how many gigs you're getting at those rates but I guess if you're bringing in enough to charge HST then you're pretty busy!


If you gross $30 grand or over, you have to submit HST. Because I do a lot of theatre work, my gross is over that. Because I have the #, I have to submit HST for all of the gigs I do. It's a regular part of doing business, and bar owners are used to dealing with it because they have to pay and claim credits for it on everything else.


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## ThePass

Merlin said:


> If you gross $30 grand or over, you have to submit HST. Because I do a lot of theatre work, my gross is over that. Because I have the #, I have to submit HST for all of the gigs I do. It's a regular part of doing business, and bar owners are used to dealing with it because they have to pay and claim credits for it on everything else.


Wow......I would never have known that......then again, I won't be making 30K this year if all we get are the cover charges to split. LOL.

Good thing I still have a day job.


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## StevieMac

Mooh said:


> Depending on the venue and date, $400 to $1000 per gig. That's not much for a 6 piece (vocal, harp, bass, keys, guitar, drums)


Sounds like we're in an identical band situation. The pay is nearly identical as well, around Kingston at least. With that said, we don't have sufficient equipment for larger/better paying gigs and, in those situations, a good portion of our pay goes to "sound". For this years blues festival for instance, $300 of a $1000/night will go to sound. We ALWAYS get a few free drinks (and ususually a meal) for each member however...


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## marcos

It also depends where you are. We talked about this last year in a post and got so many different opinions from east to west coast. 
The 400 a night sounds about average for a four piece and should be good enough untill you get a following.The reality is that the music business is really in the dumps and bar,club owners dont really care whats going on as long as they can sell beer.Sad but true.I have been out of the club circuit for over 10 years now and glad.Mainly play weddings,office parties,golf paties etc...
Money is good (300 a night for a duo) The thing is you have to keep your head up and tell yourself you are doing something that you enjoy and that many would love to do but dont have the talent.Hang in there and things will get better,i hope.


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## Mooh

StevieMac said:


> Sounds like we're in an identical band situation. The pay is nearly identical as well, around Kingston at least. With that said, we don't have sufficient equipment for larger/better paying gigs and, in those situations, a good portion of our pay goes to "sound". For this years blues festival for instance, $300 of a $1000/night will go to sound. We ALWAYS get a few free drinks (and ususually a meal) for each member however...


P.A. costs can sometimes make or break a band as much as musical considerations. We have only a fair P.A., as nobody really wants to invest in stellar gear, but it does the job. A hodge-podge of mismatched stuff used to piss me off regularly, but the band leader has been trying to rectify that issue. Alas, free drinks are meaningless to me as I've been dry for years, but I don't mind a meal.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Merlin

I've been lucky in that I managed to secure a sponsorship for PA for my regular gig.


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## prodigal_son

Right. Obviously a band has to some how proove that they are worth the expense of the venue before they ask for thier rate. It's tricky but the bottom line is that bar owners have hired you to play there ONLY to make money. Who hasn't settled quite often for a lowball rate just to get the show because you think need the experience and are attempting to establish a following?

It surprises me to hear that many bands expect top dollar even though they are not able to draw the numbers to their shows. Personally, I hate it when a venue expects the band to be the sole promoter of the event. The ideal venue would be 100% responsible for attracting customers. You could be a great salesperson and score the nice gigs but if you don't draw the numbers, suddenly it is you fault and you are cut off. What gets me really mad is when you know it went over extremely well and you are still getting paid dick all because you settled for the lowball.

Yeah.. The going rate around Kingston seems to be near $400.


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## Merlin

prodigal_son said:


> Right. Obviously a band has to some how proove that they are worth the expense of the venue before they ask for thier rate. It's tricky but the bottom line is that bar owners have hired you to play there ONLY to make money. Who hasn't settled quite often for a lowball rate just to get the show because you think need the experience and are attempting to establish a following?
> 
> It surprises me to hear that many bands expect top dollar even though they are not able to draw the numbers to their shows. Personally, I hate it when a venue expects the band to be the sole promoter of the event. The ideal venue would be 100% responsible for attracting customers. You could be a great salesperson and score the nice gigs but if you don't draw the numbers, suddenly it is you fault and you are cut off. What gets me really mad is when you know it went over extremely well and you are still getting paid dick all because you settled for the lowball.
> 
> Yeah.. The going rate around Kingston seems to be near $400.


I've done gigs for the door - but when that happens, I would supply the door person who collects, not the club. Then the club is making their money strictly off the bar.

The one that galls me is when a club offers a percentage of the door. Too easy for them to misreport/fudge the figures.


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## hollowbody

Merlin said:


> I've done gigs for the door - but when that happens, I would supply the door person who collects, not the club. Then the club is making their money strictly off the bar.
> 
> The one that galls me is when a club offers a percentage of the door. Too easy for them to misreport/fudge the figures.


Yeah, we're playing a show this weekend for $400 and there's talk of a cut of the bar if they hit a certain undisclosed figure. Of course, they'll say that figure was never hit even if there's 5000 people there all drunk as lords. Oh well.


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## james on bass

We're $500 to $600 most bar gigs. $800 to $1000 for festivals, fairs etc... We're a 5 piece country-rock band, with a steel player joining once in awhile for bigger, higher paying shows. 

When I was playing classic rock, the best I ever saw was $400.


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## flattopterry

Hey TP. We don't take any less than $100.00 per person at a bar, including our sound guy.The sad thing is, I made that much a night back in the 80's in Vancouver. Luckily it is not about the money with us, because with family coming, I usually get tapped with the bar bill anyway. I like playing for them, but still prefer the private party,/corporate gigs. They pay better and I don't have a bar bill.
I can feel for the bar owners, biz is down, but when we fill the joint, they should reward ya!


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## Guest

I would say about 100$ per musician.But then again it's been going down in and around Montreal. So it's not that uncommon to get 75$. Also talking to other musicians (and they've played the jazz fest in Montreal a few times, they have a few cd's out...) a lot of bars only want to give you the door. They want you to bring the crowd in (bars are way out of town) and you end up with nothing but gas money at the end of the night. I wouldn't mind that if it was an original band.

Myself and lots of other bands I know, don't even have that many gigs. The number of bars with live music has gone way down as well. Even this summer some don't have gigs for the whole month of august or july...I have to say that most of them play blues and classic rock, it maybe different for other types of music.


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## bluesmostly

It seems the $100 a head up to $400-$500 is standard across the country for cover bands in bars, and that rate hasn't changed in over 40 years! We rarely play bars and the pay is better for private parties, festivals, conferences, fundraiser type gigs. Like Mooh says we range from $400-$1500 depending on the gig. 

If you are trying to make a living gigging cover stuff in bars, uh,... bring on the jokes about the guitarist who is homeless cuz he just broke up with his girlfriend....

We all like to bitch about how we don't get paid enough and _it is true_ but my perspective on it is different. If it is a 'hobby' like it is for me and my mates I consider that we each make a couple of thousand dollars a year, tax free, which pays for all of our gear and expenses and then some, doing something we would be happy to do for free! I tell my band mates it is one of the only passtime/hobby I know of that actually doesn't cost alot of money. Golfers, boaters, tennis players, motorcylclists, car enthusiats, etc, pay alot of money for their passtime activities. We are way ahead of the game when you look at it that way.


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## hardasmum

Wow you're getting paid to gig in Canada? Amazing


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## ThePass

flattopterry said:


> Hey TP. We don't take any less than $100.00 per person at a bar, including our sound guy.The sad thing is, I made that much a night back in the 80's in Vancouver. Luckily it is not about the money with us, because with family coming, I usually get tapped with the bar bill anyway. I like playing for them, but still prefer the private party,/corporate gigs. They pay better and I don't have a bar bill.
> I can feel for the bar owners, biz is down, but when we fill the joint, they should reward ya!


FTT! Sup!

Well, we've been on average about $100 each. Can't complain knowing that hey, I'm getting "paid" for playing with my toys, LOL.


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## flattopterry

And in Canadian $$$ too!


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## Big_Daddy

I play for free. I get paid to haul my gear back and forth to the gig.

-Jerry Garcia-


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## allthumbs56

We were at a gig on Sunday when our one singer get a text from the owner of a bar we'd done a few matinees for. We did them as a "foot in the door" for a rock-bottom price - a 5 piece for $250! Anyway, seems a booking had cancelled and the owner wanted us to fill in. Soon as she got the text both me and the other guitarist said "no - not for $250" and I thought that was the end of it. 

Then yesterday I was out with our bass player and we were discussing working on "branding" the band on it's uniqueness and getting our value up in the marketplace and he and both agreed that we had to say "no" sometimes.

Now today I just heard that he and the singer texted back to the owner Sunday that they'd do the gig - with two other players. I am at a loss as to how to handle this..........


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## bcmatt

allthumbs56 said:


> We were at a gig on Sunday when our one singer get a text from the owner of a bar we'd done a few matinees for. We did them as a "foot in the door" for a rock-bottom price - a 5 piece for $250! Anyway, seems a booking had cancelled and the owner wanted us to fill in. Soon as she got the text both me and the other guitarist said "no - not for $250" and I thought that was the end of it.
> 
> Then yesterday I was out with our bass player and we were discussing working on "branding" the band on it's uniqueness and getting our value up in the marketplace and he and both agreed that we had to say "no" sometimes.
> 
> Now today I just heard that he and the singer texted back to the owner Sunday that they'd do the gig - with two other players. I am at a loss as to how to handle this..........


That seems really weird. This isn't an issue about pay as much as it is about the bigger issue about what it means to "be a band" and to be able to trust each other and make decisions together. The only way I can think about it is to talk to those two and ask what the explanation is and whether they thought they were right to do that. Or are they trying to say that the band is now done because it earned it's way past the $250 per night gig?

My band wastes way too much of our practice time getting into big arguments about stupid things and hurting each others' feelings over anything under the sun, but in the end we come out unified on any decisions, and none of us would take sides with a venue owner against the band... ever. I guess that would mean the band is over and its time to move on with our lives. That's a huge abuse of trust.


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## fredyfreeloader

I think the biggest issue here for allthumbs56 is one very important word "respect" it seems to me some of your other band members have a great lack of respect not just for you but also for their own abilities and their music. Lose the losers. As for average pay per gig? I retired in 1984


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## flattopterry

I like this discussion regarding respect. Our bass player just had his 20th anniversary with the company he works for. They took him for a nice lunch and presented him with 2 tickets to see Rush in Vancouver and 2 nights at a downtown hotel. $1000.00 worth of fun.

This guy is a huge Rush fan.

Then he tells them he can't attend because we have a gig that night, and that it would not be fair to the band to cancel.

That's respect and dedication. I wish some of the other members take note.


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## cracka

My 4 piece blues/classic rock has regularly made 1000$ for 2 nights, friday and saturday at a few different places.


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## bleedingfingers

You can die of exposure 
and there is always going to be a bunch of keeners out there that will do the gig for no money .

Until that stops the money is not going to go up.

I'm also curious on these gigs you guys are playing are you supplying production or is the club or venue ?


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## marcos

We bring our lights and sound with us. Its not a huge system but its good enough for small to medium venues. Any outside concerts and I ask for the sound system to be included.
Bear in mind that I play in two duos.


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