# New Fender Deluxe and Twin ToneMaster amps



## the5chord (Oct 7, 2011)

Intrigued but the price tag is high


----------



## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

Are you intrigued because they are light weight? Or do you believe them to be more reliable than old tube amps? Or is it that an original BF DR is priced high and this SS modeler amp sounds great, at a much lower price? All of the above?

I do own a ‘73 original TR. I’m not gigging it currently. It stays at home. I do play it and I love it’s tone. I move it around once in a while, not often. It is very reliable. I paid $200 for it with no speakers. I installed 2 WGS ET-65 speakers and spent another $100 or so servicing it.

I’m having trouble myself with the idea of a solid state TR modeling amp. At the price they want. I’ve heard $900 USD for it. When it comes to a TR there are deals to be had on originals.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Deals to be had on originals don't make it weigh less though.

Signed, guy who hauls a lot of the gear including two reissue twins .


----------



## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

I get the weight thing. Aside from speakers, the heaviest parts of a tube Twin are the transformers. Neodymium speakers can be installed to lighten it up, but you can’t do much about the trannies. 

My ‘73 has had JBL’s in it at one point. I do love them dearly. But the weight...OMG the weight. It stays home as mentioned so thinking I will put the JBLs back in. I may have to jack hammer the cement floor and add steel reinforcements.


----------



## Guest (Jul 19, 2019)

Digital versions sound great until you try a real one.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Player99 said:


> Digital versions sound great until you try a real one.


Apparently this sounds the same, according to a guy who sits in a room with mine for 4 hours a week.


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

keithb7 said:


> I get the weight thing. Aside from speakers, the heaviest parts of a tube Twin are the transformers. Neodymium speakers can be installed to lighten it up, but you can’t do much about the trannies.
> 
> My ‘73 has had JBL’s in it at one point. I do love them dearly. But the weight...OMG the weight. It stays home as mentioned so thinking I will put the JBLs back in. I may have to jack hammer the cement floor and add steel reinforcements.


I don't find my 75 that bad. Only sucks for stairs. Wheels are my friend


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I am not sure that it is overpriced. Why? Because it is not tube and therefore should automatically cost less???


----------



## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

That was a weird video where the guys keep insisting the amps sound the same or similar, but they don’t, and they don’t really behave the same.

Which was the digital one, #2?


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Hammerhands said:


> That was a weird video where the guys keep insisting the amps sound the same or similar, but they don’t, and they don’t really behave the same.
> 
> Which was the digital one, #2?


Didnt even watch. But I will happily a/b in a store.


----------



## the5chord (Oct 7, 2011)

Hammerhands said:


> That was a weird video where the guys keep insisting the amps sound the same or similar, but they don’t, and they don’t really behave the same.
> 
> Which was the digital one, #2?


I can’t remember which was which but when the one guy played the Tele and the amps were being overdriven it became obvious which one was digital.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

More YT info...


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

One more...


----------



## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Don't worry, there will be a new amp along in a couple years that _really_ captures all the sound and vibe of the classics... 

The cycle just keeps repeating itself. Remember how the Cyber Twin was the digital amp that perfectly replicates all the sounds of Fender's previous amps?... Wasn't it true? Or was Fender just telling us that? Is it true this time? 

/sarcasm

I'll stick with my real amps thanks.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

gtrguy said:


> Don't worry, there will be a new amp along in a couple years that _really_ captures all the sound and vibe of the classics...
> 
> The cycle just keeps repeating itself. Remember how the Cyber Twin was the digital amp that perfectly replicates all the sounds of Fender's previous amps?... Wasn't it true? Or was Fender just telling us that? Is it true this time?
> 
> ...


I understand that you are being sarcastic (to some extent), but the Cyber Twin was introduced about 18 years ago (2001).

The proof will be in each of us trying (and comparing) these new amps and writing our opinions through time.

Meant as a joke...nothing personal.


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I'd probably scoop a used Deluxe one, if the price was right and it gets the clean tones close enough. It would be a good practice amp for me.

That said, the tech-history nerd in me just likes tubes. No amount of digital wizardry can fix that.


----------



## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

The other joke is the definition of insanity.

All the effort spent trying to make something complicated sound like something so simple could have been spent making bulletproof tubes. Maybe low-voltage, or light-weight exotic transformers.

Or maybe try not making things sound like tubes.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Hammerhands said:


> The other joke is the definition of insanity.
> 
> All the effort spent trying to make something complicated sound like something so simple could have been spent making bulletproof tubes. Maybe low-voltage, or light-weight exotic transformers.
> 
> Or maybe try not making things sound like tubes.


Im sure many companies would love to make things not sound like tubes. But too many guitarists (read: market) are convinced tubes are always and forever the best.

Bass players get flack, but they are big on neo speakers, lightweight amps, and ergonomic styles. We are largely playing catchup.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Hammerhands said:


> could have been spent making bulletproof tubes. Maybe low-voltage, or light-weight exotic transformers.


enter the transistor ... (only thing missing twix a tube and a transistor is the heater )

high voltages were needed to make the electrons jump the (relatively) large distances inside tubes.

they also made tubes with integrated tin can coverings (6AC7) ... your bullet proof version


BTW, a lot of that tube sound (usually mellow, sweeter ) comes from that big lump of steel in the output transformer


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I just got rid of all my high end electric gear because I'm done with gigging for good. It didn't make sense for me to have so much money tied up in equipment I'd rarely use. However I'm thinking about picking up a budget tele and amp just for the odd time I'd like to play a few notes at home. I'm very intrigued by the tonemaster deluxe reverb. Since its just messing around at home it would be nice not to worry about tubes. As long as the clean tones were fairly accurate or at least better than what I could pull out of a fender mustang. Probably wouldn't match my budget though. I wouldn't want to spend more than $1,00-$1,200 for a guitar and no more than $500 for an amp.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Guitar Center has the Deluxe tonemaster listed for $1,230.93 Canadian. lol. I think I'll pick up a blues junior for home and deal with tubes a little longer. For all the time I'll have it on the tubes will last years anyway.

Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb 120V 1x12


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> Guitar Center has the Deluxe tonemaster listed for $1,230.93 Canadian.


It will be interesting to see the reaction to that price, assuming that is typical of what the retail will be in Canada.
With taxes, that brings the total to ~$1,391.00 in Ontario.


----------



## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

IMHO

At $600 these are a no brainer.

At $700 they're worth consideration, but begin to infringe on real tube amps, might as well pay a bit extra and get a Blues Jr or BassBreaker.

At $800 you should just buy a Blues Jr. Or BassBreaker.

Anything above that and they certainly won't even register on my radar.

YMMV.


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

greco said:


> It will be interesting to see the reaction to that price, assuming that is typical of what the retail will be in Canada.
> With taxes, that brings the total to ~$1,391.00 in Ontario.


That's well above clean, used DRRI prices. I'll place this one in the "fuck that" category.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

greco said:


> It will be interesting to see the reaction to that price, assuming that is typical of what the retail will be in Canada.
> With taxes, that brings the total to ~$1,391.00 in Ontario.


I would have considered it at $500 but even then I can get a clean used blues jr for between 4-500.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Hammerhands said:


> The other joke is the definition of insanity.
> 
> All the effort spent trying to make something complicated sound like something so simple could have been spent making bulletproof tubes.


Pretty sure the ability for anyone to make great tubes like decades ago is not possible. The guitar amp industry alone will not be enough demand. I think the best way forward is to develop digital and solid state technology.


----------



## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

A few thoughts:

Has no one noticed exactly how hard it is to sell a big amp? Twins and AC30’s move at a snails pace on the used market. Weight means more than I think we give it credit for. Personally, I can’t gig with 22 watt amps and get the headroom and response I want so a lightweight 85 watt app would be great.

Furthermore, I think it’s pretty funny how people just assume this won’t be a step further towards really nailing it before playing it. And if it does indeed nail it, or is 90% there, why shouldn’t it cost about 90% as much as the tube amp? 

Lastly, few people mention the Neo speakers when critiquing the sound. I wonder how many people who hear “digital” actually hear Neo speakers?


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

The only reason I would consider one of these amps is the fear of having to re tube and service the tube amp. 9 tubes plus labour charge.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Distortion said:


> The only reason I would consider one of these amps is the fear of having to re tube and service the tube amp. 9 tubes plus labour charge.


Cheaper than cheap tires for your car.


----------



## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

Budda said:


> Cheaper than cheap tires for your car.


True, but I don't think the amps would give you much traction once it snowed.

Right tool for the job, I always say.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

reckless toboggan said:


> True, but I don't think the amps would give you much traction once it snowed.
> 
> Right tool for the job, I always say.


Skip sandbags and put all tube 212 combos in the back.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Locally, Sherwood Music expects to have one on these amps (Deluxe Reverb) in stock sometime in September. They will sell for somewhere around $1400 (that includes the HST).


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

greco said:


> Locally, Sherwood Music expects to have one on these amps in stock sometime in September. They will sell for somewhere around $1400 (that includes the HST).


if it is the deluxe reverb it will sit ,the DRRI is $1450 plus tax. at L&M.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Distortion said:


> if it is the deluxe reverb it will sit ,the DRRI is $1450 plus tax. at L&M.


Time will tell.


----------



## georgemg (Jul 17, 2011)

I own a Twin Reverb and I have to admit these videos have me considering getting the Tubemaster Twin. The weight savings and not having to spend over $300 on a retube is tempting. The power attenuation and direct out options would be pretty handy for live situations too. I get that a lot of people are used to having modellers come with a lot of different sounds. I've used a Twin for over 20 years, so I'd be happy if I could get a really good model of that one sound. In the end of the second video, it seems to take pedals well. I'd definitely like to try one in person to see how close it is and how close the feel is.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Distortion said:


> if it is the deluxe reverb it will sit ,the DRRI is $1450 plus tax. at L&M.


Yes, it is the Deluxe Reverb. I added that to my post. 
Thanks for pointing out that omission.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Where do people get $200 - $300 for a retube? 

Preamp tubes will outlast you, unless they fail or go microphonic. No need to replace them regularly. You can play around with NOS tubes, but that's a preference and not really required - at least not repeatedly. So a retube should be the cost of the power tubes - <$50 for a Deluxe and <$100 for a Twin. And probably less often than annually, depending on how hard you work them (I've had power tubes that haven't aged appreciably in 5 years).


----------



## georgemg (Jul 17, 2011)

High/Deaf said:


> Where do people get $200 - $300 for a retube?


The Tubestore sells re-tube packages for a Fender Twin around the $300 mark. That's where I got that number from. Yes, the power tubes need to be replaced more often than the pre-amp tubes. I wouldn't replace all of the tubes if I just needed new power tubes. But for a full re-tube, that's the ballpark figure.

Fender Twin Reverb Amp - Tube Replacement Sets


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

georgemg said:


> *The Tubestore sells re-tube packages for a Fender Twin around the $300 mark.* That's where I got that number from. Yes, the power tubes need to be replaced more often than the pre-amp tubes. I wouldn't replace all of the tubes if I just needed new power tubes. But for a full re-tube, that's the ballpark figure.
> 
> Fender Twin Reverb Amp - Tube Replacement Sets


Of course they do. Your car mechanic will sell you a radiator flush and a fuel injection cleaning with every oil change, if you opt for it. The real question is: Is it necessary or are you being upsold? 

Why change preamps tubes that effectively do not wear out and are not faulty? Rough handling is their biggest enemy - if your amp gets manhandled by roadies, that's a different situation. But for most of us, it is unnecessary.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Who has roadies?

I want one for the weight difference. I dont use the reverb, I just want the same cleans with half the weight.


----------



## Lef T (Aug 9, 2018)

Budda said:


> Who has roadies?
> 
> I want one for the weight difference. I dont use the reverb, I just want the same cleans with half the weight.


I can still rock like I'm 17,but my now 65 year old body gave up on hauling my 64 lb. Twin 5 years ago.
This new Twin really intrigues me.
It may be just what I'm looking for.
I'll take the tremelo and reverb too !
Power scaling you say?
You mean I can actually make a Twin grind?
Xlr out !
33 friggin lbs.
2x12 in a 27 inch cab !
Bring it on Fender.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Lef T said:


> I can still rock like I'm 17,but my now 65 year old body gave up on hauling my 64 lb. Twin 5 years ago.
> This new Twin really intrigues me.
> It may be just what I'm looking for.
> I'll take the tremelo and reverb too !
> ...


As you've mentioned, there are a few logically reasons the Twin could be a winner. Light, powerful, flexible. Things a current Twin owner may appreciate.

But the tube Deluxe is already so good as is (light, portable, traditional Fender sound), perhaps only lacking a bit of headroom. I don't know if that 'replacement' will work out at the price they are asking. I just don't see enough 'improvement' in that model. Admittedly though, much more than once has the market eluded my logic.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Just bought a 1X12 combo at 56 pounds its not that heavy. I won't be hauling it out much but I figure if I can't lift 56 pounds then I'd be handicapped. I'm 59 and expect that I should be able to haul it for the next 10 years unless something happens.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Seem like a good alternative for those who don't want the tube amps weight and maintenance. It was pretty easy to tell 'em apart side by side but good luck at a show in the mix.


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

I am expecting a big jump in price on the tube amp reissue's , when these hit the floor very close to the current price of the tube amps..


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

The strangest part of this, to me, is that they didn't use the digital paradigm for what it's most suited for - instant changes.

The jury is still out about which is the best sounding architecture. There probably will never be a clear winner in that contest (especially since 'best' has never been defined). There will probably always be proponents of both platforms.

But you can't easily or quickly rewire tube amp circuitry to change an amp's voice. Mesa and a few do a bit of this with voice switching in their preamps, but even with that, you are limited to, at most, maybe 10 to 12 voices in one amp (the Roadmaster/Roadster series)? In the digital domain, this is it's reason dete - instant modification to it's fundamental tonal structure, and numerous voices available at the flick of a switch or stomp of a button (KPA has 625 recallable voices with the footswitch). 

Perhaps it's marketing and 7ender have decided that, to give this amp a foothold in the market, it has to have a clear target market. Don't confuse the customers with what they don't need. It would be a small investment (another couple of percent on their already-invested IP) to add a few more voices to the existing hardware. If this catches one, will they do that? Or maybe broaden the range to include an amp that ranges from tweed to brownface to blackface to HRD in one amp? Time will tell.


----------



## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

Distortion said:


> I am expecting a big jump in price on the tube amp reissue's , when these hit the floor very close to the current price of the tube amps..


You know what...this would be 100% stupid and far more deserving of the "overpriced" critique than these new amps. As I've kept up with the release of these TM amps I keep seeing people screaming about them being overpriced. I don't see it that way - bringing a new product to market isn't cheap and if the DSP in these is really Helix/AxeFX level (SHARC processing) then there's good reason for them to be on par price wise with the tube amps.

The shocker should be that we're still paying $1400 for a product that hasn't been updated in 20 years, is based on schematics and designs that are 60 years old, and are made more cheaply than ever. But we're good monkeys...we've been trained this is "fair" pricing for a Deluxe Reverb Reissue. It is, in my opinion, much more of a rip off than the new amps.


----------



## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> The strangest part of this, to me, is that they didn't use the digital paradigm for what it's most suited for - instant changes.
> 
> The jury is still out about which is the best sounding architecture. There probably will never be a clear winner in that contest (especially since 'best' has never been defined). There will probably always be proponents of both platforms.
> 
> ...


I don't know that I agree...I think digital amps were created mostly to solve the volume and recording issue. The first POD wasn't a floorboard...it was a desktop bean. Why? One can only assume because they felt the majority of users would be in the studio. Futhermore, most of the people I know using modelling live are using 1-2 amp models per show. 

So I think Fender is using digital for a perfectly valid reason - solving the volume issue...along with weight and micing issues as well.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Fender has released a wack of digital amps.

Most never really caught on.

This time they are trying the digital take on a classic they already make. Makes sense to me.


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

So the DRRI was ow $1100 and change in 2002 when I got back into playing. It is now $1450. That is 17 years and up what about 20% . There is nothing fender makes that is worth buying that has not jumped significantly in 17 years. Guitars probably 70% in that 17 years. Mexican standard tele $560 back then. Now $850. American standard Strat $1150 then, now American pro $1900. Just some example's off the top of my head. If your going to buy a new Tube reissue you better snap it up now because I think they are going to jump. Over and out.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

So they went down about $50 between 2002 and 2010? I bought an Olympic backline amp in the late spring of 2010 - for about 70% of the list price at the time, around $1050, if I recall. They were alot less 8 years before that, I think.




TimH said:


> I don't know that I agree...I think digital amps were created mostly to solve the volume and recording issue. The first POD wasn't a floorboard...it was a desktop bean. Why? One can only assume because they felt the majority of users would be in the studio. Futhermore, most of the people I know using modelling live are using 1-2 amp models per show.
> 
> So I think Fender is using digital for a perfectly valid reason - solving the volume issue...along with weight and micing issues as well.


Would you really mic a digital combo amp to record? I wouldn't, I'd go direct. That's what the POD was aimed at, not to mention playing at home - I don't know anyone who gigged a POD in the 90s.

I'm sure the TM has connectivity for that, too, but being a combo package makes me think 'live users' is one target audience. And the Kemper guys I know that play out, use anywhere from 6 to 12 profiles live. I have 15 profiles, based on genre, available to step through. I don't play to a nailed-down set-list all the time, so I need flexibility this way, switching on the fly as the singer changes his mind.

Of course, Fender wants to market this product for all the applications it can. But live use is certainly one of the major ones, thus the emphasis on low weight, which doesn't mean much if it's living in a studio most of the time.


@Budda made a good point, too. Digital amps hasn't been a Fender hi-point so far. This tack may work better for them. It isn't trying to be everything to everyone, like the major digital platforms are. That could easily change with a bit of software, though.


----------



## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

call me crazy, but only owning hand wired quality amps for years, I decided to buy one of the deluxe reverbs to add to the old school collection. Ordered mine thru our local L&M for $1039 plus tax the other day. I think they made a pricing error on their website as in the US they are $899 which equals $1199 canadian funds. I won't be surprised if there is an adjustment on their website any day now.
At 23 pounds and solid pine cabinet, it will be a cool addition I think. I do a lot of solo instrumental gigs and this will be a back saver and with the XLR out, I can run direct into my PA as well. It will certainly do what I need it to do.
Digital technology has come a long way. The new roland Nextone amps are really good sounding, same as their cube series.
I enjoy reading all the comments, good / bad critique, but in the end I just let my ears decide. These amps are not competing with their old school old siblings. It is something new that I think many musicians will embrace, including myself.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Sherwood Music in Kitchener has a Tone Master Twin Reverb in stock if anyone is interested in taking one for a test drive.

I'll admit, I'm impressed.

They have two Deluxe Reverb Tone Masters on the way.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

greco said:


> Sherwood Music in Kitchener has a Tone Master Twin Reverb in stock if anyone is interested in taking one for a test drive.
> 
> I'll admit, I'm impressed.
> 
> They have two Deluxe Reverb Tone Masters on the way.


Interested but out of budget for the next bit I think


----------



## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

greco said:


> Sherwood Music in Kitchener has a Tone Master Twin Reverb in stock if anyone is interested in taking one for a test drive.
> 
> I'll admit, I'm impressed.
> 
> They have two Deluxe Reverb Tone Masters on the way.


There's also one at Gear Music in Oakville. Very curious to go and check it out.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Some cool info about the R&D, construction, etc.


----------



## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)




----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> The strangest part of this, to me, is that they didn't use the digital paradigm for what it's most suited for - instant changes.
> 
> The jury is still out about which is the best sounding architecture. There probably will never be a clear winner in that contest (especially since 'best' has never been defined). There will probably always be proponents of both platforms.
> 
> ...


I actually like the idea of purpose built digital amps, Eg built to do one thing well. If it could mimic the tone of my main setup simply, and be a fraction of the weight I'd be ok with that. It also opens up the option for me to use a combo again instead of a head + cab (injuries have made this the easiest setup to move for me) . I see it mainly as emulation, not the huge feature set of modeling. But at the same price as the tube amp it's based on, it's harder to be excited about it.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm curious to see how this works for Fender. Weight is initially the main advantage. Perhaps long term maintenance down the road. 

But as close as it is in price to their RI tube amps, the customer will decide. Fender has tried more than once in this digital market. The less expensive amps have done OK but I can't think of any of the high-end product that has lasted very long in their lineup. Will this finally be the one?


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> I'm curious to see how this works for Fender. Weight is initially the main advantage. Perhaps long term maintenance down the road.
> 
> But as close as it is in price to their RI tube amps, the customer will decide. Fender has tried more than once in this digital market. The less expensive amps have done OK but I can't think of any of the high-end product that has lasted very long in their lineup. Will this finally be the one?


It should be interesting. I think the picked the wrong price point to go at though for this type of amp. They are targeting a traditional buyer, who's 2 main reasons for going this route would be a lightweight, cheaper option of what they own for gigging with (in my mind) . That's a tough buyer to win over with the tube option pretty much costing the same. 

I do think there is a merit with this type of amp though. I don't think a lot of people would be into this price point until this type of amp get's more established though.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

As a reference for this thread, Sherwood Music in Kitchener now have a ToneMaster Deluxe Reverb in stock for $1,039.00.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Looking forward to hearing some reports from those of you that frequent guitar stores (I never do).


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

torndownunit said:


> It should be interesting. I think the picked the wrong price point to go at though for this type of amp. They are targeting a traditional buyer, who's 2 main reasons for going this route would be a lightweight, cheaper option of what they own for gigging with (in my mind) . That's a tough buyer to win over with the tube option pretty much costing the same.
> 
> I do think there is a merit with this type of amp though. I don't think a lot of people would be into this price point until this type of amp get's more established though.


Agree 100%.

But I am not the target market. If I were to go digital (and I did), it would be for the flexibility and variety you get with that platform - flexibility and variety that you can never get with analog, and especially tube, circuitry (even the Roadmaster/Roadster - and I can't think of a tube amp more flexible than that).

I would never replace my DRRI with one of these, the weight savings is insignificant. If I were a TRRI player, perhaps there'd be enough payback to justify that, but I do not ever need more than 30 - 35 watts, so I'm not a Twin Reverb customer either.

I'm just curious to see if enough people believe in this to take out their wallets.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

FYI...This thread in the Jazz Guitar forum has many pages on the topic...
Have you tried Tone Masters yet?


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> Agree 100%.
> 
> But I am not the target market. If I were to go digital (and I did), it would be for the flexibility and variety you get with that platform - flexibility and variety that you can never get with analog, and especially tube, circuitry (even the Roadmaster/Roadster - and I can't think of a tube amp more flexible than that).
> 
> ...


The DDRI version is definitely the one I don't really get for sure. It's already a pretty compact amp for it's power. It's mainly the Twin I was commenting on.


----------



## topboost (Nov 18, 2010)

I tried the TM deluxe and it's killer. It sounds like a deluxe reverb to me and in the 12 watt mode I thought it would be perfect for me. Does it sound like the ultimate deluxe reverb? I dunno,
I haven't played them all. But I didn't hear anything in that amp that gave the the typical solid state vibe like a Katana does when I hear it. It compresses the same way and for me who records all of my amps through IR's or with Helix native this amp could be the do all amp.
I mean I have a couple of cork sniffer vintage amps, but they are so limited on what I can do with them safely these days. Worry about the wall voltage cooking the trannies, worrying about it being stolen out of the car if I stop to grab a coffee, worry about it at a gig, yadda yadda.
If the amp never moves then ya, the vintage stuff is fun to play and look at but this thing? Great to look at and super usable.
Hell, I could swing it over the seats in my old beetle to throw in the back seat with ease. At $1100 all in I would pay it. Just for the wait savings alone.
Guitar players are the only idiots I know that find it acceptable to carry 30 plus lbs of something with one hand!


----------



## sillyak (Oct 22, 2016)

It's a bit of a niche market I think.

Guitar players mainly fall into three camps:
Tube amp aficionados, those who fully embrace the digital world and those who don't care so long as it sounds good and is reliable.

Tube guys want tubes, digital guys want more options. So who is this for? I guess they are shooting for those who like the sound and simplicity of a tube amp, but not the weight and the maintenance. 

I think there is a market, just not an enormous one.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

sillyak said:


> It's a bit of a niche market I think.
> 
> Guitar players mainly fall into three camps:
> Tube amp aficionados, those who fully embrace the digital world and those who don't care so long as it sounds good and is reliable.
> ...


@topboost in the post above seems like the market. I would be the market, but for me it's no way at that price point. I'd be looking to save weight AND costs. I think if thry wanted a wider market for amps like this, that's what their target should be.


----------



## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb Amp | Amps & Pedals | Kingston | Kijiji Looks like pine cab. Nice bonus.


----------



## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

I think the Fender Rumble bass amps have been this style since inception. The XLR out is handy, and they are light.

That said, I think my 68 CPRRI is the perfect amp, so I will be sticking with that for a bit.

C


----------



## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Ordered a TMDR, may be delivered tomorrow or early next week.

My band uses IEM’s, so direct out to facilitate silent stage is a big selling feature to me... that without complexity of a modeller (I only want a good DR model, no frills). Then on top of that versatility as self contained a grab and go amp seals the deal.

Of course performance precedes all of that, demos show promise, soon I’ll hear for myself.

More news later...


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

dradlin said:


> Ordered a TMDR, may be delivered tomorrow or early next week.
> Of course performance precedes all of that, demos show promise, soon I’ll hear for myself.
> *More news later...*


I'm very much looking forward to your comments in general.


----------



## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Ok, it arrived...

So I’ve owned multiple 65 and 68 reissues in both the Deluxe and Princeton Reverb varieties.

I got out of the tube versions because you need to run the volume on them over 4 for them to open up and that’s too loud for my use. Even with pedals they need to be run in their sweet spot. I tried attenuating but that always sucked tone so a zero sum gain. All great amps but too much for me.

I’ve been gigging with my 5 watt tweed Princeton 5F2a based amp with a mic... low volume, let the PA do the work. I can get a 5 watt amp in its sweet spot at a manageable level.

We all use IEMs in my band with a low volume / silent stage objective to get the best FOH sound, ease setup, reduce feedback potential, save ours and patrons ears, etc... so a means to go direct has been on my radar.

I’ve been trying an Atomic Amplifire but despite many hours tweaking it’s tone is falling a bit short for me. I keep it on hand as a backup.

I had been toying with the idea of some load box with integral IR to run direct with my amps, so when the Tone Master with direct out came along it immediately grabbed my attention.

With that background, on to the Tone Master... so with my experience with its tube brothers I can say that the Tone Master Deluxe Reverb sounds/feels like a Deluxe Reverb. If you like a Deluxe Reverb you should like this amp, if you don’t like this amp you won’t like a Deluxe Reverb. You may have a specific vintage Deluxe Reverb that can outperform the Tone Master, but it is undeniable that the Tone Master is in class with many/most examples of a Deluxe Reverb and especially the reissues.

However where the Tone Master is excelling is that I can put the amp volume right in the sweet spot and use the integral power control to limit the volume without sacrificing tone... I can get that edge of breakup sound at a manageable level and without pedals.

The direct out is exceptional... direct to my PA it sounds like the amp... so great for a silent stage setup.

I think black face amps sound best on edge of break up, and not so good on 10 as I find their breakup can be brittle (as compared to a tweed Deluxe)... the Tone Master on 10 breaks up in a similar brittle way. However a tube version on 10 is stupid loud and too much for the small box and speaker, at least with the Tone Master you can get the 10 breakup but dial back the power and hear tone without shaking the box apart and farting out the speaker.

I tried my Xotic AC, RC, and BB and they all pair nice with the Tone Master. I tried my TS9 and was not thrilled, though I am often not with TS pedals. So seems similar to my experience with the Tone Masters tube brothers.

Then there is the weight... it’s ridiculously light.

Lastly, I had owned a Blues Cube Stage for about six months... the Tone Master sounds better... the mid range character of the Blues Cube grated on my after a while. 

Opinions will surely vary, but mine is that the Tone Master is a win... if you are a Deluxe Reverb fan you will likely agree, but maybe not... decide for yourself.


----------



## georgemg (Jul 17, 2011)

I had a chance to try out the Deluxe Tone Master at the Long & McQuade in Burlington. They had a tube version right beside it as well, so it gave me a good chance to A/B them. I'm definitely impressed. My default settings for a Deluxe are bass at 4 and treble at 5. The Tone Master didn't seem to have as much girth when I compared them at the same settings, but bumping the bass up to 5 on the Tone Master got them really close. At that point, I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference if I weren't playing them side by side. 

They didn't have a Twin Tone Master unfortunately, but based on my experience with the Deluxe I'd love to try one.


----------



## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

had my tone master deluxe reverb for three weeks now. It continues to impress. I am trying really hard to find anything I don't like about it, just can't..
I settled to run it at the 5 watt setting, volume @7 and that is plenty loud enough for small gigs or rehearsals. The tone is huge, reverb is lush and the finger or pic attack responds so well to the amp. Also takes pedals real well.
I like that it only does one sound, and does it well, no need for any other modelling.
With all that said I still enjoy all of my tube amps, but there is something real special about the tone master


----------



## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Update... I ended up returning the TMDR before my return window closed.

After spending time A/B’ing the direct out of TMDR compared to my Atomic and further tweaking the deep edit parameters in the Atomic I ended up preferring the direct out from the Atomic.

Also I preferred the normal channel on the TMDR over the brightness of the verb/vib channel but like an original DR loose the verb/vib when using the normal channel.

I’m hopeful that the TM line evolves and an editor is released so an owner can tweak parameters to improve their experience... bias, bright cap, verb/vib on normal channel, 3rd party IRs... I’ll buy back in if that develops, so far now I’m in a hold pattern.

I’m still standing by my early statement that if a DR is your thing then the TMDR (as intended) is very much that thing.


----------



## analogic (Jan 31, 2012)

Reviving this thread as I am feeling seriously nostalgic for Twin Reverbs. I feel I can make good use of the XLR output and attenuator. Is it worth the extra cash for the Twin or is the Deluxe close enough? Is the most realistic buying scenario right now a curbside picking at L&M and demo it in my studio?


----------



## topboost (Nov 18, 2010)

I'm still loving my DR, in my little studio room it still is the best sounding guitar amplifier I've ever had. My attenuator is sitting in the closet along with my old Princeton and Vox.
I have the DR going straight into my recording set up at the moment as I'm recording new material so it's on silent mode and sounds fantastic through the phones. I can't tell you if the twin is as close to a tube version as the DR is to the tube version, but I'd have a hard time believing that is isn't. I only picked the DR because I prefer the tone. But I did try a twin and thought it was fantastic and can play just as quiet is the deluxe. The great thing about the deluxe in particular is that you can play the thing at over 3 on the volume and it starts warming up the tone, but then attenuate it down to sane levels. With my Princeton, for me to get it up over 3 on the volume I'd have to soak the hell out of the thing which kills a lot of the top end and compresses the sound quite a bit.
When I rehearsed in a full band setting with the DR I ran it in the 12w mode and it was fantastic. I didn't need any more than that and I doubt if I ever would.
With a new amp I'm pretty sure L&M will give you the 30 day return policy even with the curbside pick up.


----------



## pickslide (May 9, 2006)

I got the TMDR recently and absolutely love it. Never had a tube DR before but have a solid idea of how they sound from so many songs and video clips (have also had various other Fender amps). This amp gets close enough for me to not know the difference. Reacts so well to different pickups, volume controls on the guitar and sounds really good with the pedals I have. I would bet that we start to see this type of amp from other companies sooner than later.


----------



## pickslide (May 9, 2006)

Still loving this amp. Sounds great with my bad cat siamese drive, klamac elmore and catalinbread katzenkonig


----------



## the5chord (Oct 7, 2011)

I’d love to try one next to my DRRI. I personally like the tone of my Princeton better with a 12” cannabis rex in it. Kind of hoping they’ll make a Princeton with a 12” in the tone master series


----------



## TimH (Feb 4, 2006)

Thought I'd bump this as I had my first encounter with the blonde version of the TMDR yesterday. I've got to say that I was pretty impressed. I normally have a hard time getting along with class D power amps and neo speakers....but at least at music store volumes i found myself getting lost in a jam. No feel complaints at all and tone was great. I kind of want to go back and bring my Silver Sky and pedalboard...


----------



## screvans (Jun 5, 2018)

I have the BF version and it's fantastic. It's been great throughout the pandemic for silent recording and also for bringing to backyard jams where I won't overpower our upright bass player. I've owned a DRRI and it was exactly as good as you'd expect a Deluxe to be, but good luck using it at low volume.


----------



## gary_harrington (1 mo ago)

TimH said:


> A few thoughts:
> 
> Has no one noticed exactly how hard it is to sell a big amp? Twins and AC30’s move at a snails pace on the used market. Weight means more than I think we give it credit for. Personally, I can’t gig with 22 watt amps and get the headroom and response I want so a lightweight 85 watt app would be great.
> 
> ...


I played out with two twins for years. The tm twin is a blessing. 33 pounds sound 95 percent there with an xlr out plus attenuation what's not to like?


----------

