# Using a distortion pedal with tube amp distortion.



## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

Hey all. I use a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe with Yellowjacket converters (6L6 to EL84's) and the "Gain" and "More Gain" channels are by comparison sounding decent in terms of how much distortion is created. If I crank it past half way on the volume pot, the gain really saturates and the sweet spot seems ot be around 9 or 10 (12 is max). I also use a Dimarzio D Sonic in the bridge and an Air Norton in the neck of a Les Paul. 

What I want to know is this: If I add a distortion pedal to the mix, so to distort the signal even more and sharpen up a bit - trying to get decent metal tones here, what is the best way to do this? From what I understand of it, the best thing to do is to actually leave the pedal on at all times with the Gain knob rolled nearly or completely off and set the Volume knob at about half way. Any suggstions would be greatly appreciated.


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## Guest (Sep 2, 2009)

I don't know about "decent" -- that's in the ear of the beholder. But it works well. I personally love a Rat layered on top of a lightly overdriving Marshall. Takes it from mean to scream in a hurry. And the Rat's treble control is great for dialing in/out the right amout of bite. Is that metal enough for you? Dunno mate. Only you can make that call.

Another overdrive I thought went nicely on top of an amp's OD channel is the Caitalinbread Super Charged Overdrive. It's tone knob can do the scooped thing, which might be more your type of metal.

Alternatively you can try an EQ pedal like an empress ParaEQ w/Boost. Boost to hit your amp hard and then EQ to get the right amount of scoop and chug in the sound.


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## octofour (Feb 17, 2009)

I add in distortion over the gain in my Cornford, I find it helps to give it a extra kick every once and while


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## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

I am just checking to see what people think about the concept of using a distortion pedal in combination with a high gain tube amp's gain channels. Yeah.. I suppose that the only way to learn is to try it. I have been relying on my amp's gain channel for distortion for so long and I would like to add to the "crunch" factor as it just seems to not distort enough with the amp's overdrive channel alone. We'll see what happens when I try it I guess.


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

Ever consider buying a low-priced Mesa? I think they are more comfortable with these types of tones... I can't imagine you're getting much of an organic sound with that many gain stages. (Might not be a huge concern to you either...) Adding another solid state distortion device can't make it sound a whole lot better. Just my two cents. Maybe it does sound great. I had a DeVille for a few years there. I could never use the dirty channel on it.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

prodigal_son said:


> From what I understand of it, the best thing to do is to actually leave the pedal on at all times with the Gain knob rolled nearly or completely off and set the Volume knob at about half way. Any suggstions would be greatly appreciated.


In this case, you're setting up the distortion pedal almost as a clean boost. You should be able to use pretty much any clean boost, overdrive or distortion pedal for this. I wont comment on using it this way for metal, as I dont play metal, but it certainly works for overdriving the front end of a tube amp.


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## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

Well.. Good point about the Mesa. I am not really too ambitious about getting a new amp right now. Honestly though, the HRD is sounding surprisingly better in terms of sustain and tube distortion with the EL84's. It actually distorts better now with the EL84's and has more of a mid range. I am just wondering now what more I can do with the distorted tones. I hoping to make it a bit more cutting and punchy with slightly more distortion keeping in mind too that I need both a lead and a rhythm sound. The amp has a "Gain" and "More Gain" switch but I tend to rock back and forth to the Air Norton for leads instead of using the "More Gain" channel. The Air Norton cuts through really well with Whammy and Wah effects.


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## copperhead (May 24, 2006)

i find its hard to get good metal tones from the smaller tube amps .seems to bright sounding to me.. heres a pedal i want i believe its designed for lowwatt tube amps 
http://www.goudiefx.com/otp.php
sdsre


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

ever heard of the landmine pedal...???...check out the youtube vids...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvG8mZziMyU

http://www.landminepedals.com/


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2009)

I'm back with a clip for you. Just to give you an idea of what a pedal on an already overdriven amp turns in to. This a Plexi running a lighter overdrive. And I kick on a tube drive pedal akin to a Butler Tube Driver with the gain set med-low but the level a little above unit.

Pardon the noise, I was playing with single coils tonight. I left some space in the I'm-not-a-metal-player-playing-metal riff so you can hear how it goes. You get gain, but it comes at the expense of some noise. A good noise gate could squelch that out. I was running with no gate tonight.

So, the clip: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/870088/AxeFx/plexi-plus.mp3

Quick and simple, but hopefully it gives you an idea of what layering pedals on overdriven amps can do.

:rockon2:


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## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

Wicked!! That's exactly what I mean. You get tube tone and you get that sharp punch of the distortion pedal simultaneously in one heavy sound without entirely losing the color of the amp. Obviously there are many other factors which add to this but this is the basic concept. I am wondering what this would sound like with greater amp tube gain and a wee bit less pedal distortion. Cool, thanks man. <edit> Are you playing this through an AxeFX?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

As the others have said, you'd want to run a distortion pedal into the amp running low drive, so that the Amp isn't distortiong too much.

I use my amps drive channels, and use a modded TS7 (I use it in TS808 mode) to push the channels into modern metal territory. The JSX isn't supposed to be a death metal machine, but with my tubescreamer I get it there


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## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

I keep reading here and there that TS808's are the pedals to do this sort of thing with but I had always thought that the old Tube Screamers were used only for moderate distortion and not metal distortion. I suppose it works better this way in layers with the tube gain. Intersting...


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2009)

prodigal_son said:


> Are you playing this through an AxeFX?


Yup. morethan10characters


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## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

Welp. I managed to find a DS-1 to use for what I have been asking about and it sounds great. Doing exactly what I needed. Unfortunately it doesn't go completely clean whist engaged with all or any of the dials set to "0" though. Not a big deal.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

prodigal_son said:


> I keep reading here and there that TS808's are the pedals to do this sort of thing with but I had always thought that the old Tube Screamers were used only for moderate distortion and not metal distortion. I suppose it works better this way in layers with the tube gain. Intersting...


Metal guitarists don't get their gain from the tubescreamer . We get 95% of our gain from our distortion channel, and then we use the tubescreamer to tighten the lows, focus the mids, and sometimes add a touch more grit to the sound. Mostly used for the tightening and mid shift. Some metal bands run distortion pedals with the gain low/"off" into their distortion channels for an even bigger boost/punch, for a very heavily saturated sound. Cannibal Corpse comes to mind because they run (modded?) Boss MT-2's into mesa dual rectifiers - and they are High Gain! I myself don't listen to cannibal corpse, so I can't comment on the sound.


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## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

I am going to keep experimenting with it for sure. Probably going to have to get a GCX switcher to do all the amp gain blending etc.. that I would like to have access to live. I am liking the DS-1 quite a bit though. Mixes quite nicely with the HRD's Gain channel. People diss the DS-1 but it's actually quite nice.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

how would you set up the GCX? Isn't that MIDI controlled?


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## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

Don't use a distortion pedal. Use an overdrive pedal like a Boss SD-1 or any Tubescreamer variant. The BB Preamp is also a great pedal you should check out for adding in a bit of grit on top of your amp gain, and it also works really well as a clean boost.


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## sproul07 (Jun 23, 2007)

Samsquantch said:


> Don't use a distortion pedal. Use an overdrive pedal like a Boss SD-1 or any Tubescreamer variant. The BB Preamp is also a great pedal you should check out for adding in a bit of grit on top of your amp gain, and it also works really well as a clean boost.


I agree. Xotic makes great stuff


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## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

Budda said:


> how would you set up the GCX? Isn't that MIDI controlled?


I have an older Ground Control MIDI foot switch I am using to access patches from my Digitech DHP-33 processor. Right now my signal chain looks like this:

Guitar > DS-1 > Digitech DHP-33 operated by Ground Control and Expression pedal, BYPASS = amp + DS-1 only > Fender HRD - gain/clean channel switches are made seperately w/ amp's foot controller

Ultimately it would work best for me to be able to press one button and access distortion pedal sounds combined with the amp's gain or clean channel plus whatever effect I need. The GCX would allow mw to do this. I could easily loop up two or three different distortion pedals for various lead and rhythm tones and also be able to simultaneously switch channels on my amp.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I avoided the dilemma of pedals by leaving my tubescreamer on all the time, hehe!


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## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

Like I said before, the DS-1 distorts even at the lowest settings. BTW - I was looking at a BOSS OD-20. It models distortions and switches amp channels simultaneously plus it's semi-programmable. Looks cool but I absolutely hate COSM.


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## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

OK. Been messing around with it a bit. Here's my new tone set up with the DS-1 combined with the HRD gain channels:

DS-1 
Tone: 12:00
Level: 1:00
Distortion: 3:00

HRD (switched in to Gain channel only)
Drive: between 2 and 3 - sounds great as a "clean" option
Treble: 2:00
Mid: 3:00
Bass: 10:00
Presence: 1:00

The engaged low drive setting on the amp's gain channel was a wicked suggestion. When the DS-1 is switched off I am still getting a great warm clean sound. When I switch on the DS-1, the blended tone I am looking for comes through and the "More Gain" option on the amp's foot pedal boosts the snot out of the signal for lead tones. Freakin' sweet dudes!! Finally this old POS amp is sounding the way I need it to..:bow::rockon2:


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

rock on, brother!


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