# Traynor Dark Horse 15w head



## Blues Jr

Hey guys, came across this on the Traynor site today. Something new for 2010. 15w 6v6 that can be dialed down to 2w. Didn't notice if it's been discussed here or not, but it looks cool and has a really cool cab too loaded with a Greenback.




















http://www.traynoramps.com/products.asp?type=1&cat=60&id=424


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## LaRSin

that looks like a cool little amp

kksjur


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## Greg Ellis

Cool! I wonder how much it will cost?


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## greco

Very interesting concept and design...wonder what the cost will be.

Cheers

Dave


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## Stratin2traynor

Echoing everyone else's statement.....Awesome looking - wonder how much it will cost????


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## greco

I'm betting that it will be around $899.99.

What do others think?

Cheers

Dave


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## mhammer

So it seems like 1W is the new 100W.:smilie_flagge17:


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## mrmatt1972

look! It's my next amp and cab! kkjuw sdsre


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## Robert1950

Now, THIS, is something very different for Traynor. I like what I see so far.


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## aC2rs

Wow! 

That is nice - I will be waiting for one of those to show up at the local Traynor dealer.


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## Mooh

Far freaking out! I've been hoping they'd do something like this. Gotta find one.

Thanks for the link.

Peace, Mooh.


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## RIFF WRATH

dang...........where is the Bass model...............I'll guess at $900.00.........


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## zurn

If they are targetting the Egnater Rebel 20, Orange Tiny Terror, Vox Night Train market it could be anywhere between 600$ and 900$ 

Looks nice indeed


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## Blues Jr

Ya, pretty awesome eh? One of the guys at L&M told me in the fall that they were looking at coming out with something to compete with the Tiny Terror. I also hear that there may be something coming with EL84s at some point.


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## greco

Blues Jr said:


> I also hear that there may be something coming with EL84s at some point.


Now that would be COOL !!

Dave


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## Robert1950

The difference with this amp, is that it doesn't use a pentode/triode switch, or an attenuator or a one tube/two tube function, but a 12AU7 tube for 2 watt power. Interesting. I haven't seen this 6V6/12AU7 power tube configuration before.


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## Bevo

Cool, the best part of it is that the small amp competition is heating up!
This one is pushing the design envelope...cool


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## bcmatt

I imagine they will try to undercut the Night Train and Tiny Terror in price point with comparable stylings. 
Pretty neat that it offers something new to the table as far as power tube capabilities. Perhaps with that originality going for it, they won't need to undercut too much.

My bet is $575. It's "Price is Right" rules, right? Closest without going over?


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## zurn

Well the Egnater Rebel series already does the 6v6/EL84 thing, that isn't anything new. Although most reviewers say they cant really hear much difference.


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## bcmatt

zurn said:


> Well the Egnater Rebel series already does the 6v6/EL84 thing, that isn't anything new. Although most reviewers say they cant really hear much difference.


no, this one's not EL84; IT'S A 12AU7 for the second power tube option.


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## zurn

Oh, you can switch preamp tubes?


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## Gene Machine

greco said:


> I'm betting that it will be around $899.99.
> 
> What do others think?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave



I'm going to bet $699 for the head. $399 for the cab.

Damn it! Just when I thought my savings was going to rebound...


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## mrmatt1972

I'd bet that i's going to compete directly with the Vox nighttain so the price will be around 500 for the head.


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## aC2rs

My guess is $850 head and cab.


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## Robert1950

zurn said:


> Oh, you can switch preamp tubes?


All tubes can be switched. Preamp tubes can often be swapped with a similar tube. i.e. a 12AX7 can be replaced by a 5751 which only 70% the gain as the 12AX7. Power tubes is a little different. Usually a 6V6 has to be replaced by another brand of 6V6, unless the amp was designed to swap different octal power tubes. i.e. EL34, 6L6, KT66 etc. It has to do with biasing. I'll let someone else explain that.


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## zurn

Robert1950 said:


> All tubes can be switched. Preamp tubes can often be swapped with a similar tube. i.e. a 12AX7 can be replaced by a 5751 which only 70% the gain as the 12AX7. Power tubes is a little different. Usually a 6V6 has to be replaced by another brand of 6V6, unless the amp was designed to swap different octal power tubes. i.e. EL34, 6L6, KT66 etc. It has to do with biasing. I'll let someone else explain that.


Well I know you can change preamp tubes with a a lower gain but this amp has a switch to change from 6V6's to 12AU7, so I guess its actually a switch from 12AX7 to 12AU7 (15w to 2w) ? The Rebel Egnater 20 enables you to mix power amps tubes 6V6's and EL84's together so Traynor is actually doing something new.


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## Greg Ellis

If I'm reading the specs on the Traynor site correctly, the 15 watt mode uses a PAIR of 6V6's (likely in push-pull?).

That's Fender Princeton territory, no? I'm not aware of any other mini-amps that are going after that particular architecture. Very refreshing to see that with all the single-ended designs around, and EL84's everywhere you look.

The low wattage mode uses an alternate power section, built from a 12au7 tube. Could be push-pull there as well. Similar to the Blackheart Killer Ant design.

So they seem to be onto a combination of features that is relatively unique in this class.

At the same time, they've saved money on cabinet, no reverb, etc.

I'm hoping this is priced very aggressively, to compete not only with with Tiny Terror and Vox Night Train and the Egnator 20, but also with the cheaper stuff like Blackheart.

I'll guess $399.


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## Rabbit

wow! If this thing sounds half as good as it looks it will be a winner.I also really dig the cab with the real 
original grill cloth.It looks like a Traynor! Price wise it will beat Orange and Vox and its made here and not in some foreign sweatshop.Way to go Yorkville!


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## soldierscry

looks like I'll be adding this to my wish list


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## hollowbody

zurn said:


> Well the Egnater Rebel series already does the 6v6/EL84 thing, that isn't anything new. Although most reviewers say they cant really hear much difference.


I tried the Rebel 20 and thought there was quite a bit of difference between the 6v6 and el84 sounds.

I'm hoping this is in the $500 range. It really looks pretty friggin awesome.


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## Chito

Nice. Like someone said with the two 6v6s this is in the Princeton territory, definitely something worth looking at.


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## infinitemonkey

Anybody know if this will be made in Canada, or China?


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## Chito

China? I believe all Traynor amps are made in Canada. I've not heard of a Traynor amp made in China.


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## infinitemonkey

The solid state stuff is made in China. It's designed here, but made in China.

I would have nothing against a Chinese-built Dark Horse if it kept the price down in the Night Train or Tiny Terror range, but I guess the patriot in me would prefer a made in Canada amp, even if it was a little more expensive.


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## mrfiftyfour

I went to my local L&M today, and they knew nothing. Asked about trading in my YCS90 for the Dark Horse!
I can't wait to give it a test drive.


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## Drazden

Another instant fan here. I've been thinking my low-wattage combo (a Laney AOR30) is taking up just too much real estate lately, and have been meaning to 'downgrade' to a small tube head for jams and quiet gigs, as well as practice. 

Well, bingo! I'm on board. Here's hoping for around $500 for the head, but if I know Yorkville, it'll be a few hundred above that--they don't seem to be too interested in putting Canadian stuff out for less than about $800.


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## High/Deaf

Greg Ellis said:


> If I'm reading the specs on the Traynor site correctly, the 15 watt mode uses a PAIR of 6V6's (likely in push-pull?).
> 
> That's Fender Princeton territory, no? I'm not aware of any other mini-amps that are going after that particular architecture. *Very refreshing to see that with all the single-ended designs around, and EL84's everywhere you look.
> 
> The low wattage mode uses an alternate power section, built from a 12au7 tube. Could be push-pull there as well. Similar to the Blackheart Killer Ant design.*
> 
> So they seem to be onto a combination of features that is relatively unique in this class.
> 
> At the same time, they've saved money on cabinet, no reverb, etc.
> 
> I'm hoping this is priced very aggressively, to compete not only with with Tiny Terror and Vox Night Train and the Egnator 20, but also with the cheaper stuff like Blackheart.
> 
> I'll guess $399.


Actually, the Night Train is push-pull (2 X EL-84) and not single-ended.

And the low power mode of this amp uses one 12AU7 by the sounds of things - so that would be single-ended and not push-pull.


I'm going to bet $600 for the head and $300 for the cab. Love the look of that cab!!!


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## Greg Ellis

High/Deaf said:


> And the low power mode of this amp uses one 12AU7 by the sounds of things - so that would be single-ended and not push-pull.


12AU7 is a dual triode, so push-pull is certainly possible. Not saying it WILL be that way, obviously, but it COULD be.

And yeah, I know there are tons of EL84 amps around, including push-pull designs like the Peavey Classic 30 & 50, Traynor YCV20, YCV40, etc.

It's the 6V6 thing that interests me. Egnator Rebel 20 is an option, but it's $600 US. And Princeton Reissue is more like $900. I'm hoping Traynor will come in significantly under both of those.


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## GreenBurst

The 2W mode with the 12AU7 must be configured like this amp.

www.surprisesoundlab.com/ssl-22_003.htm


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## Younggun

I'm hoping it's under $500.00 but it will probably retail for 649.00. Definitely an Amp that I would be interested in. Thanks Traynor.


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## Robert1950

I think it will be priced to compete with the Vox Night Train and the Orange Tiny Terror. If it's made just down the road in Pickering, I don't see how they could price to compete with Blackheart Handsome Devil.


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## Blues Jr

Hey guys, got word from Mike @ Traynor today that the Dark Horse will be available in the spring sometime. No pricing as of yet.


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## david henman

...i'm looking forward to this one, big time. i've been playing through traynor combos for years. my ycv15blue is just a flawless amp.

-neil down


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## aC2rs

Good to know the availability date. 

This is a new item I'm really looking forward to


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## High/Deaf

Greg Ellis said:


> 12AU7 is a dual triode, so push-pull is certainly possible. Not saying it WILL be that way, obviously, but it COULD be.


True dat. But would require another dual-triode for PI. Most amps running a single OP tube don't seem to want to install an extra tube for that - but this one probably already has that layout for the 6V6's and could possibly use it for the 12AU7 as well.

On the other hand (at least to me), one nice feature of a single tube OP amp is to get away from push-pull and reclaim the first harmonic.


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## Mooh

Hope it sounds as good as it looks, because it looks glorious. 

Where's that piggy bank?

Peace, Mooh.


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## Budda

So, who's gonna be the first to mod one?


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## Drazden

Alright, guys, just got back from work tonight. We're getting in two; one with the 1x12 cab and one single head. I'll let you know as soon as they arrive; our rep said he cranked one at NAMM and it sounded amazing (but that's just the sort of stuff the reps are supposed to say.)


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## Blues Jr

Drazden said:


> Alright, guys, just got back from work tonight. We're getting in two; one with the 1x12 cab and one single head. I'll let you know as soon as they arrive; our rep said he cranked one at NAMM and it sounded amazing (but that's just the sort of stuff the reps are supposed to say.)


Hey, your rep give you any idea on pricing?


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## Drazden

Blues Jr said:


> Hey, your rep give you any idea on pricing?


Well, as far as I can work out, the entire rig would come in at *well* under $1000, but other than that, I'm not sure how much I can give away. L&M would probably get it for cheaper than my shop, but for the head, 500 to 600 seems like a reasonable range for me. I'll get a firm number when we get them out on the floor (and I probably buy one of them that day.)


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## Greg Ellis

I just saw some youtube clips on the upcoming Egnater Tweaker - it's a 15 watt dual 6V6 with a ton of tone-shaping options.

If they are right about their expected $399 retail price, the Traynor Dark Horse is going to have some pretty serious competition.


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## corailz

That's a good thing,theses little amp will turns in real great bang for the bucks!!!!!!!!!!


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## zurn

Damn and I'm receiving my Rebel 20 tonight


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## Greg Ellis

Rebel 20 still looks like a great deal. The power scaling alone is likely worth the extra $200, never mind the ability to switch between 6V6 and EL84, or even blend the two. Egnater makes some very cool products, no doubt.


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## Guitarguy1

*Dark Horse pricing*

Hi Guys, 

I'm new here but I've been following your thread. I got a price for the DH15H from L&M in Dartmouth and it's going for around $560.00 and the cab is $245.00. These numbers may be a little off as the email I got from L&M is on my work computer. I do know that the pair goes for $805.00 Canadian plus taxes. I have pre ordered the pair. Hey it's Traynor and it's Canadian. Gotta be great. I also have an original YGM-3, a YCV40 signed by Pete Traynor and a Bass Master 100. Oh yeah, I have some Fender stuff to but the Traynor gear is great.


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## Guitarguy1

*Dark horse pricing*

Hi Guys, 

I checked my work email and can now give the correct prices for the head and cabinet. The DH15H is $490.00 and the cabinet is $315.00 Canadian dollars. I knew it added up to $805.00 plus taxes. A very good price for what I am sure is going to be a wicked little amp. I'm looking forward to getting one.


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## Drazden

Our rep apparently gave us the wrong info; delivery date for the Dark Horse amps isn't till March. But the pricing we've got corresponds to the L&M prices posted previously; around $500 for the head and just over $300 for the cab.


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## Peter

Cool amp!!


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## parkhead

499 for the head ... it sounds pretty good 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGEPKiZ4rNg

p


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## Blues Jr

parkhead said:


> 499 for the head ... it sounds pretty good
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGEPKiZ4rNg
> 
> p



Ya, sounds nice. I wanna hear it dimed!


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## White Horse

*chunkier than a Princeton?*

Hey folks -- I already own a Princeton Reverb, and I'm looking for a lunchbox amp to switch to in gigs for nice searing crunch. Would the Dark Horse be too similar to the Princeton because of the 6V6's? Should I get a 15-watter with EL84s? I don't need cleans out of this thing, the Princeton has that covered. I need drive that rolls up your spine and pushes you into rocking out. Would the DH15 be capable of that?

I really want to support Traynor -- I already play a Godin guitar. Canadian made is a definite plus with me.

Thoughts?


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## Electric I

Dig the look. Wonder how it sounds dirty. 

As a prospective lunchbox buyer it's down to this amp/egnater tweaker/mesa transatlantic


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## torndownunit

Anyone come across any new clips of these?


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## torndownunit

White Horse said:


> Hey folks -- I already own a Princeton Reverb, and I'm looking for a lunchbox amp to switch to in gigs for nice searing crunch. Would the Dark Horse be too similar to the Princeton because of the 6V6's? Should I get a 15-watter with EL84s? I don't need cleans out of this thing, the Princeton has that covered. I need drive that rolls up your spine and pushes you into rocking out. Would the DH15 be capable of that?
> 
> I really want to support Traynor -- I already play a Godin guitar. Canadian made is a definite plus with me.
> 
> Thoughts?


I'd try to track down an old YBA-2A. One of the heads if you can. They are pretty small. They have killer crunch cranked. Put a pedal in front for a boost and it's heavenly.


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## greco

torndownunit said:


> I'd try to track down an old YBA-2A. One of the heads if you can. They are pretty small. They have killer crunch cranked. Put a pedal in front for a boost and it's heavenly.


+1 .......I had one and regret that I sold it. Very compact head with great tone.

Dave


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## Beltone

I saw this in the Traynor catalog at Lauzon music in Ottawa yesterday... it looks small enough to sneak into the house without the wife noticing!


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## Robert1950

I've heard thru the gear page that some one has tried one in a store. Anyone see one at L&M (I assume they will be the first get them in Canada since Yorkville own L&M and Traynor)


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## torndownunit

greco said:


> +1 .......I had one and regret that I sold it. Very compact head with great tone.
> 
> Dave


Ya at the time I sold mine, I didn't need an amp like that and didn't see myself needing it in the future. Now I am playing in a heavier rock band again and wish I still had it. The natural OD with that thing cranked was perfecr ACDC tone. With a boost pedal, I could get any level of gain needed.


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## parkhead

Its Made In Canada and they are beginning to trickle into stores, those in the GTA check your local L&M



p


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## jimihendrix

there's one at the burlington L&M...


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## Drazden

Can't wait till mine comes in. The one thing I'm worried about, is that I really wish it had an effects loop. Wonder if it could be modded...


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## parkhead

Drazden said:


> Can't wait till mine comes in. The one thing I'm worried about, is that I really wish it had an effects loop. Wonder if it could be modded...


Not Much room inside these 

IMHO even the mod hounds will be satisfied with this one... so far I can find nothing it needs 

p


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## jmb2

parkhead,

thanks for the update. guess I need to book some time aside to give one a good listen


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## parkhead

another video

YouTube - Dark Horse 2 watt setting demo


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## TubeStack

They've got one in Brantford at LA Music, just saw it yesterday.

I walked in to get some strings, turned around and said, "Whoa... what do we have here?" 

I think it's a killer looking setup, love the look and size of both the head and cab. Also love that the cab is Greenback-loaded. Traynor really seems to have made all the right moves with this one.

The price was $700-something for both head and cab - his prices are usually higher than L&M's (which is strange, as there's two that are both about 20 min away, in Cambridge and Burlington).

I'm really itching to bring in my Texas Tele and give it a go... although I have no absolutely no money for it, right now. LOL!


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## jmb2

Had a chance to try the Darkhorse this week at the local L&M. Great amp. Definitely a sweet lil' amp. I used a 62 Hot Rod Strat and also gave a LP Custom a spin. Even with my playin' it sounded great 

cheers always, eh

Joel


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## Yorkville

We are now shipping both the head and cabinet. I believe the street price will be somewhere around $500 for the head and $300 for the cabinet. Unlike other amplifiers mentioned previously in this discussion, ours is made in North America. Right here in the Great White North, and comes with our 2-year no-fault warranty. We are heavily backordered on both, so please be patient with us while we gear up to full production. In order to maintain the quality we are famous for, we like to ramp up slowly because haste makes mistakes and we want everyone to get an amplifier that will live for a good long time.


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## Bevo

Thanks for the update and welcome to the forum, you have lots of fans here including the big boss.


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## Fader

"Straight from the horse's mouth?"

I'm sorry, I couldn't let it slide...


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## david henman

...got a strong feeling this will be my next amp purchase, although my traynor ycv15blue is not going anywhere - an absolutely flawless combo.

-dh



Yorkville said:


> We are now shipping both the head and cabinet. I believe the street price will be somewhere around $500 for the head and $300 for the cabinet. Unlike other amplifiers mentioned previously in this discussion, ours is made in North America. Right here in the Great White North, and comes with our 2-year no-fault warranty. We are heavily backordered on both, so please be patient with us while we gear up to full production. In order to maintain the quality we are famous for, we like to ramp up slowly because haste makes mistakes and we want everyone to get an amplifier that will live for a good long time.


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## zurn

I hope they make a combo version!


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## jmb2

Yorkville said:


> We are now shipping both the head and cabinet. I believe the street price will be somewhere around $500 for the head and $300 for the cabinet. Unlike other amplifiers mentioned previously in this discussion, ours is made in North America. Right here in the Great White North, and comes with our 2-year no-fault warranty. We are heavily backordered on both, so please be patient with us while we gear up to full production. In order to maintain the quality we are famous for, we like to ramp up slowly because haste makes mistakes and we want everyone to get an amplifier that will live for a good long time.


Welcome aboard and thank you for the update. Much appreciated.

cheers always, eh

Joel


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## Blues Jr

I gave the amp a whirl at L&M in Mississauga last night. It was the only one they received, and was already sold as well. Head is $499, cab is $299.

As for the sound? Sounded pretty good actually. I preferred the "pure" setting. It just sounded better overall.
In 2 watt mode, there was a nice breakup with the gain up half way. There's lots of bass on this because of the closed cab. Overall a nice amp. But as i was playing it, I was thinking that this would be so much better in a combo with reverb on board.


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## Yorkville

I suspect we won't make a combo version because of two reasons (but anything is possible): 1) There would be very little benefit price-wise, but it would be less versatile (one couldn't just use the head, or just use the cabinet), and 2) it would be more difficult to have the current cabinet feature where you can choose either open back or closed back, and we feel this is a very cool feature. The combination would be bigger and heavier, because the space that the head takes up weakens the structure, so we would have to add more bracing. It might be difficult to get that "old toaster" sort of look that everyone seems to like also. However, if enough people want it, we'll figure something out.


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## faracaster

Saw one at L&M Bloor last night.
Looked very cool......sort of like a 50's amp of some sort. Nice styling !!!
I couldn't get on it myself as there was someone else trying to play it. I say trying because........frankly, he could barely play and was horribly out of tune. So I won't say anything in regards to tone as it sounded like.....well you can imagine.
But I do want to spend some time with one....... interesting and as I say....very cool looking. Really like the idea of the two 6v6s and then the one smaller power tube. Good call.
BTW......a combo would just not work as this amp currently is. Needs to have it's own head enclosure. Being that it so small, putting it into a combo package would just bulk it up. Unbelievably portable as it is. And as the way it is, you can use it with any cab, open or closed back.


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## parkhead

Blues Jr said:


> I gave the amp a whirl at L&M in Mississauga last night. It was the only one they received, and was already sold as well. Head is $499, cab is $299.
> 
> As for the sound? Sounded pretty good actually. I preferred the "pure" setting. It just sounded better overall.
> In 2 watt mode, there was a nice breakup with the gain up half way. There's lots of bass on this because of the closed cab. Overall a nice amp. But as i was playing it, I was thinking that this would be so much better in a combo with reverb on board.


I'm sure if people bought enough Dark Horse amps, Traynor could be convinced to do a YGM3 Dark Horse hybrid 

a YGM3 box and chassis, loaded with Dark Horse tweaks, 
possibly including 

modern circuit board instead of hand wired to keep the price where everyone likes it 

2 6v6 output 
2 watt setting 

reverb, trem 
dark horse eq icluding the PURE setting everyone loves 

Greenback speaker 
oval port on the back of the cab 

Just thinking out loud 

P


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## david henman

...and an fx loop!

-dh




parkhead said:


> I'm sure if people bought enough Dark Horse amps, Traynor could be convinced to do a YGM3 Dark Horse hybrid
> 
> a YGM3 box and chassis, loaded with Dark Horse tweaks,
> possibly including
> 
> modern circuit board instead of hand wired to keep the price where everyone likes it
> 
> 2 6v6 output
> 2 watt setting
> 
> reverb, trem
> dark horse eq icluding the PURE setting everyone loves
> 
> Greenback speaker
> oval port on the back of the cab
> 
> Just thinking out loud
> 
> P


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## JMann

david henman said:


> ...and an fx loop!
> 
> -dh


So I'm in Edmonton visiting family and drop by the downtown L&M. Went to try out a Super Champ XD, which they just sold out of, and wound up driving like a mad man to the south end L&M to try out the Darkhorse, which they just finished unpacking. 

Long story short, I walked out with the Darkhorse. For $499 I figured why not. Liked what I heard in the brief test drive and it was 6v6 based. Last 4-5 amps have been el84's including the 2 amps I have on hand. Enough for me to take a chance on. Can't wait to get back home to run it thru my Avatar 2x12. I admit though, kinda of a homely looking thing and dang, they redefined toaster amps with this thing. It is tiny.  

If I ever find time I'll get some clips up. I know the drive back to Jasper tomorrow will be the quickest yet!

Just as an aside, I have had my Mesa 5:25 up for sale because of another impulse buy last time I was in Edm. More of an informed and educated impulse buy. The amp?? Marshall C5. This amp has some serious mojo and undefinable quality that just relegated my Mesa dispensable. Talk about 2 completely different amps but this other $500 amp is right up there with my Kingsley for the toneaz (is that how you young guys say it?).:food-smiley-004:


Jim


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## Jimi D

greco said:


> I'm betting that it will be around $899.99.
> 
> What do others think?


it will be interesting to see how it fairs against the Mesa TransAtlantic...


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## allthumbs56

Yorkville said:


> We are now shipping both the head and cabinet. I believe the street price will be somewhere around $500 for the head and $300 for the cabinet. Unlike other amplifiers mentioned previously in this discussion, ours is made in North America. Right here in the Great White North, and comes with our 2-year no-fault warranty. We are heavily backordered on both, so please be patient with us while we gear up to full production. In order to maintain the quality we are famous for, we like to ramp up slowly because haste makes mistakes and we want everyone to get an amplifier that will live for a good long time.


Definitely a company that deserves our support. Building in Canada, employing Canadians AND building excellent products! I've owned three different YCVs recently and have owned much of their old stuff (when it was new). I'm still using my RVS system as a P/A in our jam space. 

Ironclad.


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## Robert1950

You can actually see the Yorkville factory in Pickering just a little south of the 401 between the Rouge and Whites Road.


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## JMann

Quick update. Played it thru my 2x12 cab tonite. First impressions - not bad. Bright amp, which I like, especially the USA setting. With that setting, 6v6 pwr, the amp stays fairly clean even with the gain cranked. Cleans aren't quite as warm and chewy as my Kingsley but I imagine that is a 6v6 thing. Very bright with a tinge of brittleness (with a Tele) but pleasing in a different sort of way.

The Brit setting, 6v6, and with gain cranked produced some nice thick, crunchy tones. I like the great sonic differences between the US and Brit settings.

The Pure setting is kinda cool in its own right. It bypasses the tonestack and sends a pure signal from preamp to output tubes. The manual states the power output is 12 watts with the 6v6's and .8 watts with the 12au7 but 15 and 2 watts with the 2 cycle burst power which I read and hear to be the Pure setting. There is a noticeable volume jump when switching to Pure.

Nonetheless, certainly not enough time with it to give a more detailed review but this amp on first take, like the Kingsley, is deceptively simple and versatile. A footswitchable mode selector would be one of my early requests.

Jim


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## Intrepid

allthumbs56 said:


> Definitely a company that deserves our support. Building in Canada, employing Canadians AND building excellent products! I've owned three different YCVs recently and have owned much of their old stuff (when it was new). I'm still using my RVS system as a P/A in our jam space.
> 
> Ironclad.


I agree. Certainly deserving of our support. I have never had a bad "Traynor" ever. This certainly looks to be a Head I would like to try out in the rec room.


----------



## Guitarguy1

I picked up my Dark Horse on Tuesday. Haven't had much time to play with it. Damn job. Played for about 10 minutes in the L&M store in Dartmouth Nova Scotia and had to replace the JJ's. One was bad. Put in GT's and it is really nice. I'll send more details when I get time.


----------



## jammers5

Just picked mine up today at Long and McQuade St. John's. This amp is KILLER!!!! It's got 3 voicings - Brit -Pure -USA that are all awesome sounding. The low wattage setting sounds ok to me but this thing ROARS when you crank it with the 6V6's!!! Nice cleans to full on gain, this amp can do it all! The cabinet is loaded with a Celestion GT12 Greenback that I am in love with too! I tried it in the store at low volume and it sounded ok, it may have been the guitars I was using. But when I got it home and plugged in my '93 LP Std, cranked up the volume, this thing sprang to life! Then I tried a '93 American Standard Strat with SCN's, sounded great as well! 3rd on the list was my Road Worn Tele with Tex Mex pups and sounded fantastic!

I also have a Traynor Custom Special 100w stack - real nice amp! 

In low wattage tube amps I own a Tiny Terror, Blackheart Little Giant (w/Bitmo Triple Bypass mod) Marshall Class 5, Fender Blues Junior and an Egnater Rebel 30. The Dark Horse, in my opinion, sounds better than ALL of them. I really love the 3 voicings , and the Greenback suits this amp to a "T"

J5


----------



## Merlin

aC2rs said:


> Wow!
> 
> That is nice - I will be waiting for one of those to show up at the local Traynor dealer.


I saw one at the L&M in Stratford. Didn't bother trying it though. I'm spoiled by the 300 watts my AI Clarus puts out.


----------



## dwagar

Merlin said:


> I saw one at the L&M in Stratford. Didn't bother trying it though. I'm spoiled by the 300 watts my AI Clarus puts out.


you play a lot of stadiums?


----------



## parkhead

the clarus is a cleeeeeen jazz amp 

the 300 watts is needed to keep it cleeeeeen 

p


----------



## Jimi D

I saw one at L&M yesterday, and I gotta admit the hardware geek in me was like all "Oooh... Ahhhh..." It's a very tastey piece of kit: looks damned cool... reminds me of the head on those old ampeg hide-away head amps from the sixties (I forget what they were called... they were cool tho')... Anyway, just very neat hardware...

I didn't bother plugging it in tho'... I haven't bothered with any of these so-called "lunch box" heads because I really don't get them... I mean, I just don't understand why anyone would want one... A "Grab'n'Go" amp? It's light and small, sure, but then you have to add a cab, and there goes the size and weight savings... Once you add a cab into the mix, my Mesa Express 5:25 is just as portable (moreso, imho, as it's only one piece to carry rather than two) and it offers me channel switching, an effects loop and reverb besides power scaling and multiple voices... Around the house, I just use whatever amp I like (and I have a few) - lately it's been my Mark V in 10 Watt mode with Variac power on the Tweed setting, but I can switch up for whatever I want, 'cause all my amps are here anyway - but I guess if you wanted a "cute" conversation piece amp for noodling in the living room, these things would fit the bill, but then again, so would a Pignose... Gigs? Well, as long as you're happy with a single-channel amp with no reverb or loop, I guess you're okay, but again, I don't see them as being any more convenient to drag around than a 5:25 or a Deluxe Reverb for that matter, so they wouldn't be my first choice for a small gig amp. I dunno... I just can't see the attraction, _except_ for the fact that they're "cool" and "cheap", which makes them kind of "impulse" buys...


----------



## dwagar

yes, some of us are quite happy with a single channel no reverb or loop amp. 
I'm going to check one out one of these days, might be a good amp at a reasonable price for small gigs, jams, etc. Just that and a 2x12 cab. Pretty light move.


----------



## torndownunit

Jimi D said:


> I saw one at L&M yesterday, and I gotta admit the hardware geek in me was like all "Oooh... Ahhhh..." It's a very tastey piece of kit: looks damned cool... reminds me of the head on those old ampeg hide-away head amps from the sixties (I forget what they were called... they were cool tho')... Anyway, just very neat hardware...
> 
> I didn't bother plugging it in tho'... I haven't bothered with any of these so-called "lunch box" heads because I really don't get them... I mean, I just don't understand why anyone would want one... A "Grab'n'Go" amp? It's light and small, sure, but then you have to add a cab, and there goes the size and weight savings... Once you add a cab into the mix, my Mesa Express 5:25 is just as portable (moreso, imho, as it's only one piece to carry rather than two) and it offers me channel switching, an effects loop and reverb besides power scaling and multiple voices... Around the house, I just use whatever amp I like (and I have a few) - lately it's been my Mark V in 10 Watt mode with Variac power on the Tweed setting, but I can switch up for whatever I want, 'cause all my amps are here anyway - but I guess if you wanted a "cute" conversation piece amp for noodling in the living room, these things would fit the bill, but then again, so would a Pignose... Gigs? Well, as long as you're happy with a single-channel amp with no reverb or loop, I guess you're okay, but again, I don't see them as being any more convenient to drag around than a 5:25 or a Deluxe Reverb for that matter, so they wouldn't be my first choice for a small gig amp. I dunno... I just can't see the attraction, _except_ for the fact that they're "cool" and "cheap", which makes them kind of "impulse" buys...


Ya I have never understood the lunchbox head phenomenon either. At least not when it comes to carrying around a 5 watt head and a 1x12 cab. I'd rather just have a small combo, and one item to carry instead of 2. Especially since most combos, even old Princeton Reverb, come with a ext. speaker jack anyway if I really wanted to hook up to a cab. 

It makes more sense if your playing needs require using a bunch of different cab configurations I guess.


----------



## Jimi D

dwagar said:


> yes, some of us are quite happy with a single channel no reverb or loop amp.
> I'm going to check one out one of these days, might be a good amp at a reasonable price for small gigs, jams, etc. Just that and a 2x12 cab. Pretty light move.


Compared to your JCM800 1x12 combo? How is the lunchbox thing any better? I'd rather grab my SFDR any day of the week... I just don't see it... 



torndownunit said:


> It makes more sense if your playing needs require using a bunch of different cab configurations I guess.


 I guess... though I'd think if your playing needs require using a bunch of different cab configurations, you'd probably need more amp (reverb, fx loop, channel switching, horsepower, etc.) than the average lunchbox offers...


----------



## dwagar

Jimi D said:


> Compared to your JCM800 1x12 combo? How is the lunchbox thing any better? I'd rather grab my SFDR any day of the week... I just don't see it...


it has to do with turning the JCM800 way, way, way down.


----------



## JMann

Jimi D said:


> Compared to your JCM800 1x12 combo? How is the lunchbox thing any better? I'd rather grab my SFDR any day of the week... I just don't see it...
> 
> 
> I guess... though I'd think if your playing needs require using a bunch of different cab configurations, you'd probably need more amp (reverb, fx loop, channel switching, horsepower, etc.) than the average lunchbox offers...


I think if you do a little research on other boards, and maybe here, you'll find many reasons why people like myself would choose something as small, wattage and physically, as the DH. My main reason? I own 3 el84 amps currently and wanted to try some other output tube. Since I like small wattage amps and the DH had 6v6 tubes which I have never tried before (save for a Bivalve I had) and since this was Canadian made and affordable, for me it fit. As for lack of effect loop and reverb and other goodies, I think the popular argument would be it degrades the signal chain and there are a lot of people out there that like single channel amps. I like single channel amps but I also wouldn't have minded reverb or an effects loop. 

I agree the portability factor is a bit confusing and also agree with you questioning the contradiction with toaster amps in general. Idk, to me, playing at home mostly these days, this amp was available, new, in large part satisfied my criteria for my next amp and is affordable enough that I won't be bothered too much taking a loss if I decide to pass it on. I have a 2x12 on hand so I didn't need the cab offered (although I might pick one up later). I also have no doubt that the rated 15 watts (actually only in Pure mode-12 watts for the other modes) would be more than enough if and when I get out to playing live. 


Too me, with the DH in USA mode putting out 12 watts, I would equate it to Princeton Reverb RI in terms of output and tube choice. It definitely sounds Fenderish and stays relatively clean even with the gain cranked.


----------



## torndownunit

JMann said:


> I think if you do a little research on other boards, and maybe here, you'll find many reasons why people like myself would choose something as small, wattage and physically, as the DH. My main reason? I own 3 el84 amps currently and wanted to try some other output tube. Since I like small wattage amps and the DH had 6v6 tubes which I have never tried before (save for a Bivalve I had) and since this was Canadian made and affordable, for me it fit. As for lack of effect loop and reverb and other goodies, I think the popular argument would be it degrades the signal chain and there are a lot of people out there that like single channel amps. I like single channel amps but I also wouldn't have minded reverb or an effects loop.
> 
> I agree the portability factor is a bit confusing and also agree with you questioning the contradiction with toaster amps in general. Idk, to me, playing at home mostly these days, this amp was available, new, in large part satisfied my criteria for my next amp and is affordable enough that I won't be bothered too much taking a loss if I decide to pass it on. I have a 2x12 on hand so I didn't need the cab offered (although I might pick one up later). I also have no doubt that the rated 15 watts (actually only in Pure mode-12 watts for the other modes) would be more than enough if and when I get out to playing live.
> 
> *
> Too me, with the DH in USA mode putting out 12 watts, I would equate it to Princeton Reverb RI in terms of output and tube choice. It definitely sounds Fenderish and stays relatively clean even with the gain cranked.*


I agree. But that is what is some of the root of my confusion with the lunchbox heads. A Princeton Reverb is an extremely portable amp. More portable than a luncbox head and a cab. Not meaning you have to specifically buy a Princeton Reverb, it's just that there are a lot of vintage and newer low wattage tube amps in a lot of price ranges that make more sense to me. 

Not knocking the amp at all. Congrads to anyone who got one and I hope you enjoy. I was more commenting on the phenomenon that EVERY brand seems to have to have a lunchbox head in their lineup, which means there must be a place for them in the market. I just personally don't get it the huge appeal.


----------



## dwagar

oh I see. Yeah, I don't get that either. I assumed it was a price point thing, cheaper to make. Maybe there is some other appeal?

There does seem to be quite a few ~15W heads out there for good prices now. I'm making an assumption that the Traynor would be one of the better ones, being made here instead of China.


----------



## JMann

torndownunit said:


> I agree. But that is what is some of the root of my confusion with the lunchbox heads. A Princeton Reverb is an extremely portable amp. More portable than a luncbox head and a cab. Not meaning you have to specifically buy a Princeton Reverb, it's just that there are a lot of vintage and newer low wattage tube amps in a lot of price ranges that make more sense to me.
> 
> Not knocking the amp at all. Congrads to anyone who got one and I hope you enjoy. I was more commenting on the phenomenon that EVERY brand seems to have to have a lunchbox head in their lineup, which means there must be a place for them in the market. I just personally don't get it the huge appeal.


I completely understand your confusion. The salesman at L&M echoed what you and others (including myself) wonder: "Yep, that's Traynors take on the lunchbox amps". Do we really need another small head?? 

You and Jimi D bring up valid points regarding these small amp heads (and really, the DH is the smallest I've seen). However, the DH adds a few new twists to the class. The aforementioned 6v6 is one (most are el84 based though there are exceptions), a 12au7 power tube for the 2 watt setting, and a 3 position mode switch that allows you to toggle between Brit, Pure and USA settings and so far to my ears, there really is a different feel, texture and sound between the 3. Traynor boasts that the gain is like a "brightness" control in that turning the gain down will increase brightness but I think that is true with most gain controls, at least in my experience. 

I haven't spent much time on the Brit mode yet but I like what I hear so far and the eq controls are really effective and the tone changes noticeably even with small adjustments.

Another reason I brought up the Princeton was I am still toying with the idea of getting one to go with my Class 5 which, speaking of portability and simplicity, is an awesome amp.


----------



## torndownunit

JMann said:


> I completely understand your confusion. The salesman at L&M echoed what you and others (including myself) wonder: "Yep, that's Traynors take on the lunchbox amps". Do we really need another small head??
> 
> You and Jimi D bring up valid points regarding these small amp heads (and really, the DH is the smallest I've seen). However, the DH adds a few new twists to the class. The aforementioned 6v6 is one (most are el84 based though there are exceptions), a 12au7 power tube for the 2 watt setting, and a 3 position mode switch that allows you to toggle between Brit, Pure and USA settings and so far to my ears, there really is a different feel, texture and sound between the 3. Traynor boasts that the gain is like a "brightness" control in that turning the gain down will increase brightness but I think that is true with most gain controls, at least in my experience.
> 
> I haven't spent much time on the Brit mode yet but I like what I hear so far and the eq controls are really effective and the tone changes noticeably even with small adjustments.
> 
> Another reason I brought up the Princeton was I am still toying with the idea of getting one to go with my Class 5 which, speaking of portability and simplicity, is an awesome amp.


It's without a doubt a cool design. There needs to be more small 6v6 amps, and I'd also like to see some single EL34 amps. I'd just like to see it, and a lot of these other luncboxes, available as small combos as well. They are catering to a market that wants these amps, but I have to think there's another huge chunk of the market that would like to see more diversity as far as really portable combos with these types of features. As you said, most of the existing budget ones are similar EL84 designs.

The low wattage settings are ideal for home use.... but I just don't want a head and cab/extension speaker in my apartment no matter how small the head is. I want as portable of a combo as I can get both for my house and carrying around.
The price point is low ..... but not as much when you factor in needing a cab/ext speaker and a nice speaker or nice speakers depending on the configuration.

Again, just personal observation and conversation. Not a knock on the amp.


----------



## Blues Jr

torndownunit said:


> It's without a doubt a cool design. There needs to be more small 6v6 amps, and I'd also like to see some single EL34 amps. I'd just like to see it, and a lot of these other luncboxes, available as small combos as well. They are catering to a market that wants these amps, but I have to think there's another huge chunk of the market that would like to see more diversity as far as really portable combos with these types of features. As you said, most of the existing budget ones are similar EL84 designs.
> 
> The low wattage settings are ideal for home use.... but I just don't want a head and cab/extension speaker in my apartment no matter how small the head is. I want as portable of a combo as I can get both for my house and carrying around.
> The price point is low ..... but not as much when you factor in needing a cab/ext speaker and a nice speaker or nice speakers depending on the configuration.
> 
> Again, just personal observation and conversation. Not a knock on the amp.


My sentiments exactly. It's not that I don't think the DH is fine amp. For the few minutes that I spent with it last week I thought it was pretty nice. However, as I was playing I thought that a nice small sized grab n go combo would be great.


----------



## parkhead

found another Dark Horse video

YouTube - Phil Kane and his Combo deluxe traynor darkhorse

p


----------



## Bevo

The think you guys may be missing with grouping all the small amps in the lunch box...box is the wattage and final use.

Having all these brands compete in the small amp market is a benifit to us, 5 years ago how many amps were there under 20 watts?
Now we have lots and the next version is going to be better as will the next after that.
Another thing that is proving itself is that we can get away with the smaller amps for mostly everything, most of the 120 head guys never would of thought that we could get away with a 20 watter but we are. I personaly have no reason to own a big head anymore other than GAS of course.
At our jam I plug into my friends stereo 4-12 and take half his cab, he has a Marshall JVM in the other side and volume wise I am not flat out with my 20 but on 3 and we fit in perfect with the band.

Heads and Combos are always a debate, its personel prefference. Me, I like heads because I have a 1-12 and 2-12 and can plug into the 4-12.
As these amps get more popular more combos will be made available.

Bottom line, we are just starting on the new wave of small low watt amps, it will be a while before it peaks.


----------



## jammers5

Jimi D said:


> I saw one at L&M yesterday, and I gotta admit the hardware geek in me was like all "Oooh... Ahhhh..." It's a very tastey piece of kit: looks damned cool... reminds me of the head on those old ampeg hide-away head amps from the sixties (I forget what they were called... they were cool tho')... Anyway, just very neat hardware...
> 
> I didn't bother plugging it in tho'... I haven't bothered with any of these so-called "lunch box" heads because I really don't get them... I mean, I just don't understand why anyone would want one... A "Grab'n'Go" amp? It's light and small, sure, but then you have to add a cab, and there goes the size and weight savings... Once you add a cab into the mix, my Mesa Express 5:25 is just as portable (moreso, imho, as it's only one piece to carry rather than two) and it offers me channel switching, an effects loop and reverb besides power scaling and multiple voices... Around the house, I just use whatever amp I like (and I have a few) - lately it's been my Mark V in 10 Watt mode with Variac power on the Tweed setting, but I can switch up for whatever I want, 'cause all my amps are here anyway - but I guess if you wanted a "cute" conversation piece amp for noodling in the living room, these things would fit the bill, but then again, so would a Pignose... Gigs? Well, as long as you're happy with a single-channel amp with no reverb or loop, I guess you're okay, but again, I don't see them as being any more convenient to drag around than a 5:25 or a Deluxe Reverb for that matter, so they wouldn't be my first choice for a small gig amp. I dunno... I just can't see the attraction, _except_ for the fact that they're "cool" and "cheap", which makes them kind of "impulse" buys...


Well i guess its all what you are into. 99% of my playing is done down in the man-cave and I like having variety, and I don't need my 100w Custom Special down there. Plus I can do a gig easily with the Dark Horse, Marshall Class 5 and Blues Junior (all of which I own) I'm hitting 40 this year and just don't want to be dragging 4 12's or even 2 12's around because where I play its not needed. I hear where you are coming from, and I probably would have been on your side of the fence a few years back, but for my situation and use, lunchboxes and 1 speaker combos is where it's at!

J5


----------



## JMann

jammers5 said:


> Well i guess its all what you are into. 99% of my playing is done down in the man-cave and I like having variety, and I don't need my 100w Custom Special down there. Plus I can do a gig easily with the Dark Horse, Marshall Class 5 and Blues Junior (all of which I own) I'm hitting 40 this year and just don't want to be dragging 4 12's or even 2 12's around because where I play its not needed. I hear where you are coming from, and I probably would have been on your side of the fence a few years back, but for my situation and use, lunchboxes and 1 speaker combos is where it's at!
> 
> J5


Hey, I've got a C5 also and REALLY dig it. It's a loud little bugger but am curious if it's loud enough for small jams and gigs as you apparently have tried?

What's your take on the Pure setting on the DH?? Last night was a revelation of sorts for me as I just spent most of my practice time ripping and riffing in the Pure mode. Good stuff. I'm thinking HB'ers would rip through that setting (I'm humbuckerless at the moment).

Jim


----------



## parkhead

JMann said:


> Hey, I've got a C5 also and REALLY dig it. It's a loud little bugger but am curious if it's loud enough for small jams and gigs as you apparently have tried?
> 
> What's your take on the Pure setting on the DH?? Last night was a revelation of sorts for me as I just spent most of my practice time ripping and riffing in the Pure mode. Good stuff. I'm thinking HB'ers would rip through that setting (I'm humbuckerless at the moment).
> 
> Jim



The Pure Mode is one of the key elements of the amp ... while the class 5 is great it also loses a lot in the tone controls.

What makes something Like a Tweed Champ an truly great amp is the direct signal path.. not just the low wattage 
The Dark Horse Captures a lot of the tonal aspects of a tweed champ and allows you to blow that sound up to club gigging volume... 

Instead of thinking of it as another lunchbox amp .. the Dark Horse is a tweed deluxe & tweed champ in a modern low cost package 

Thats after several solid hours of playing mine & years of tweed deluxe and princeton ownership. 


p


----------



## Robert1950

For you DH owners, what does the 2w pure sound like. Is it still too loud for basement use???


----------



## parkhead

Robert1950 said:


> For you DH owners, what does the 2w pure sound like. Is it still too loud for basement use???


YouTube - Dark Horse 2 watt setting demo

it seems "loud" but the amp still has a master volume and is not as loud as a champ type amp ...

p


----------



## CocoTone

Have you played one yet Park? Your opinion on tone carries a lot of weight with me. Your suggestions for my Guitarmate turned it into a much stronger gigging amp. Cured the flubb too.

CT.


----------



## parkhead

I bought one... too 

p


----------



## CocoTone

Saw your youtube. Nice tone. What speaker you using with it?

CT.


----------



## parkhead

Funny, It was your clips a few years ago that got me going 

"Darn that cocotone is a good player and my guitar mate does not sound anywhere as good as his ... I'd better go over it" 

Wherever possible I use an old VOX alnico, I have a pile.. plus reissue blues and red fangs 

In this case it was a pair of 66 vox alnicos 

p


----------



## CocoTone

Your too kind there Bro. I wish I knew my way round the inside of an amp like you do. What part of the city are you?? I 'd like to come out and jam with you guys sometime.

CT.


----------



## jammers5

JMann said:


> Hey, I've got a C5 also and REALLY dig it. It's a loud little bugger but am curious if it's loud enough for small jams and gigs as you apparently have tried?
> 
> What's your take on the Pure setting on the DH?? Last night was a revelation of sorts for me as I just spent most of my practice time ripping and riffing in the Pure mode. Good stuff. I'm thinking HB'ers would rip through that setting (I'm humbuckerless at the moment).
> 
> Jim


Yeah the Class 5 is loud enough for jams and gigs. I play with a loud drummer and it keeps up no problems! I add a little gain to it via my Guv'nor Plus or my Tone Hog TS808 clone. (Yeah it's too loud when I get the gain where I want it naturally!) It's a dark sounding amp so different from most of the small tube amps, a real joy to play!

The pure mode is my favorite setting on the DH with gain. It's "the sound" for me and absolutely love it. Sounds great with my '93 Gibson Les Paul and my '93 Am Std Strat! The USA cleans are fantastic too, and the Brit mode is nice too. Can you believe the variety of sounds from this little beast? And the celestion greenback loaded cabinet is my absolute favorite of all the smaller cabinets I have! (Epi 1x12, Blackheart 1x12 Orange PPC112, Marshall 1936 2x12 plus the Traynor)

No question traynor hit the ball out of the park on this one!


----------



## jammers5

No you can control the volume with the master, plus you can get decent gain without suffering too much tone loss by turning the volume down and the gain up.


----------



## parkhead

More ... Video 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixWT2m2e9-g



settings 

YouTube - Dark Horse settings demo

p


----------



## Robert1950

I'm a basement player. I can imagine using the 6V6/clean/US setting at home like Princeton Reverb {w/o the reverb). I can imagine using the 12UA7/Gain/Brit for dirty stuff. From Parkhead's vid, I gotta say I like the 12AU7/Pure setting - lotsa sustain and warm grit.

I just wish the US/Pure/Brit was foot switchable. An EH holy grail will do for the reverb.


----------



## CocoTone

YouTube - Dark Horse Traynor.mpg Parkhead!!

CT.


----------



## parkhead

How bout a real Park Head ....

66 Jtm45/100 

YouTube - Park jtm45/100 real 59 burst



p


----------



## tonydawe

i walked into the L&M in charlottetown pei a couple weeks back and there was one sitting around so i snapped a photo. didn't get a chance to plug into it, unfortunately.


----------



## JMann

tonydawe said:


> i walked into the L&M in charlottetown pei a couple weeks back and there was one sitting around so i snapped a photo. didn't get a chance to plug into it, unfortunately.


 
Yeah, I think I might go back to Edm. some day and pick up the matching cab. I like the DH enough to justify picking it up and they sounded and looked pretty sweet when I test drove both.


----------



## tvrfan203

Just played one at Long and Mcquade in Toronto this week, was looking at Night Train, Orange, Blackhearts, but when I tried this amp, decision was made.....it was already on hold but guy let me fool around for a few minutes with an LP, and I will be waiting for them to get restock, and buying one......decent clean, pretty gritty with gain up, especially on 2 watt setting! The switch to change tone was amazing, it actually made serious tone change and at really good price...$ 499, beats most of what I was looking at and sounds great


----------



## Chito

I just ordered this from the L&M in here and should get it within the next 3 weeks. Which means I'm getting rid of my ZT Lunchbox and Blackheart Little Giant soon.


----------



## tvrfan203

Just ordered mine today from Renassaince in Kingston, they said Traynor are promising Apr 25 ship date, Kng was best price I could find at $439.00..can't wait, now just need to pick up a good 12 inch speaker for the cab between now and then! And sell the Fender Evil Twin !


----------



## zurn

I was browsing L&M's website today, the Dark Horse is now available online!

Head:499$
Long & McQuade - Products - Traynor Darkhorse Tube Guitar Head

Cab: 299$
Long & McQuade - Products - Traynor Darkhorse 112 Guitar Cab


----------



## Chito

Well, L&M sent me an email saying the order has come through. Actually it hasn't arrived but they received one for demo which was not even in a box when they got it. When I called them I was told that I could take that amp home, just bring it back when the shipment arrives and they will replace it with a new one. So I came over and picked it up. Haven't got a chance to try it but will do as soon as I get home. I thought that was cool of them to offer that. Hopefully it lives up to my expectations.


----------



## Roughshod

FYI

Saw the Darkhorse head and matching cab in Barrie at Music Pro.


----------



## Lemmy Hangslong

Each time these show up in Calgary I never make it in to see/hear one... now they are on back order.


----------



## JMann

I'm liking this amp more and more. The Pure mode is great with that extra volume jump as it bypasses the tonestack. Just straight tube tone with excellent break-up. But the USA clean is a pleasant surprise to me. Full, tight bass response with slightly cutting highs. I need to pick up a tube Princeton for comparison with the USA mode to determine if my suspicions are correct that what I'm hearing would be similar to the Princetons tone. 

The dirtier Brit mode I'm still working with but nothing has really stood out. I just don't spend much time in this mode.

I also just picked up the DH matching cab yesterday and was happy to find it was wired at 16 ohms to match up with my Class 5! I think I'm set for amps and cabs. Maybe. Yeah right....lol

Jim


----------



## jammers5

JMann said:


> I'm liking this amp more and more. The Pure mode is great with that extra volume jump as it bypasses the tonestack. Just straight tube tone with excellent break-up. But the USA clean is a pleasant surprise to me. Full, tight bass response with slightly cutting highs. I need to pick up a tube Princeton for comparison with the USA mode to determine if my suspicions are correct that what I'm hearing would be similar to the Princetons tone.
> 
> The dirtier Brit mode I'm still working with but nothing has really stood out. I just don't spend much time in this mode.
> 
> I also just picked up the DH matching cab yesterday and was happy to find it was wired at 16 ohms to match up with my Class 5! I think I'm set for amps and cabs. Maybe. Yeah right....lol
> 
> Jim


Yeah I took the panel off the back of the cabinet last night for the second time, but this time someone was there with me and I could continue playing while the panel was taken off and put back on. It sounded louder and a little nice IMHO with the panel off. I'm gonna continue to experiment with that at louder volumes - kids were upstairs right above me watching a movie.

I am using the USA and Pure modes the most. I've played with the Brit mode a bit but I always end up switching back to Pure for dirty. The USA cleans are real nice as well - would sound great with a little reverb I bet. Maybe it's time for me to pick up a reverb pedal.......

Hopefully Traynor pumps a few more of these puppies out in the market soon. they are too good for just a select few of us to have. It is my main amp for practice and gigging since I got mine.

Oh and the Class 5 does sound a lot better with the Greenback loaded Traynor cabinet.........don't you agree?


----------



## TubeStack

Someone bought the 1x12 in Brantford, but the head is still there (as of a few days ago).


----------



## JMann

jammers5 said:


> Yeah I took the panel off the back of the cabinet last night for the second time, but this time someone was there with me and I could continue playing while the panel was taken off and put back on. It sounded louder and a little nice IMHO with the panel off. I'm gonna continue to experiment with that at louder volumes - kids were upstairs right above me watching a movie.
> 
> I am using the USA and Pure modes the most. I've played with the Brit mode a bit but I always end up switching back to Pure for dirty. The USA cleans are real nice as well - would sound great with a little reverb I bet. Maybe it's time for me to pick up a reverb pedal.......
> 
> Hopefully Traynor pumps a few more of these puppies out in the market soon. they are too good for just a select few of us to have. It is my main amp for practice and gigging since I got mine.
> 
> *Oh and the Class 5 does sound a lot better with the Greenback loaded Traynor cabinet.........don't you agree*?


Oh, I agree. One thing about the C5 though. After going from the DH with a 2x12 or 1x12 and then to C5 1x10 alone I started to hear the boxiness of the smaller speaker/cab that some have referred to. It takes my ears longer to adjust to that boxy sound but when I plugged the C5 to the DH 1x12, it made a world of difference. 

Using a Holier Grail with all 3 of my amps with good results and it sounds especially good through the USA setting.


----------



## jammers5

JMann said:


> Oh, I agree. One thing about the C5 though. After going from the DH with a 2x12 or 1x12 and then to C5 1x10 alone I started to hear the boxiness of the smaller speaker/cab that some have referred to. It takes my ears longer to adjust to that boxy sound but when I plugged the C5 to the DH 1x12, it made a world of difference.
> 
> Using a Holier Grail with all 3 of my amps with good results and it sounds especially good through the USA setting.


Yeah the C5 does sound a little boxy but for me it is fine. same thing with the Blues Jr. The Traynor DH Cabinet makes the C5 sound so much better.

I like your suggestion regarding the Holier Grail pedal, I must go try one out!

J5


----------



## Chito

Finally got a chance to show this off.  You can dial in a lot of different tones from this small thing. So far I have played it clean playing with my band. I've been using the USA setting and a bit surprised at how much headroom it has. I'm presently running it through a Traynor YCX212 loaded with WGS Veteran 30 and British Lead speakers. I'm just starting to appreciate the versatility of this amp, I'm looking forward to playing it "cranked" in a rock/blues setting. It should be able to handle a loud drummer.


----------



## Rwinder

Finally got to try one at l&m this afternoon. I really like it, didn't get to crank it but i think it might be a worthy upgrade for my blues jr. which i'm less than satisfied with. I was surprised how much bass the amp with the little 1x12 put out... 

oh, and they look pretty good too... 

I a/b'd it with a tiny terror, and it was way clearer and ... substantial than the terror. TT wins for gain but its cleans sounded a bit congested in comparison.


----------



## CDWaterloo

Chito said:


> Finally got a chance to show this off.  You can dial in a lot of different tones from this small thing. So far I have played it clean playing with my band. I've been using the USA setting and a bit surprised at how much headroom it has. I'm presently running it through a Traynor YCX212 loaded with WGS Veteran 30 and British Lead speakers. I'm just starting to appreciate the versatility of this amp, I'm looking forward to playing it "cranked" in a rock/blues setting. It should be able to handle a loud drummer.


This is one sexy beast  will grab one too asap......


----------



## Fader

I've been waiting patiently for mine about a month now. I have the exact same cab as Chito, only loaded with Red Fangs. I can hardly wait!


----------



## Budda

That looks odd to me. Probably sounds good though!


----------



## tvrfan203

Have had mine about 3 month now, Built it into an old rolltop I had made in the 80s, converted it by building cabinet with port option, with Greenback clone. Head just fits nicely into the rolltop portion. I love the Us option, on low watt, dimed.....great with some gain. Still playing around with sounds but lots of amp for the money...


----------



## keto

Wonder how hard it would be to yank the modes switch and make it a footswitch jack  I gotta try one of these, the demos are killer.


----------



## Basementhack

Gotta go look to order one of these today !

Keith


----------



## jmb2

Basementhack said:


> Gotta go look to order one of these today !
> 
> Keith


Cool. think you'll dig it. definitely should fit in nicely with some Dr Z Amps and some 'angry lunch-box' style amps too, eh 

cheers always, eh

Joel


----------



## david henman

...my only concern with this amp is the lack of an effects loop - are my choruses and delays etc going to suffer as a result?


----------



## JMann

keto said:


> Wonder how hard it would be to yank the modes switch and make it a footswitch jack  I gotta try one of these, the demos are killer.


Would love to see the modes footswitchable. It's the only criticism I have on the amp but I don't play out live yet so currently it's no big deal.


----------



## Rwinder

JMann said:


> Would love to see the modes footswitchable. It's the only criticism I have on the amp but I don't play out live yet so currently it's no big deal.


I think the volume differences between the modes would make foot switchability useless though... unless each mode had its own volume controls... at that point its no longer a lunch box for 499 it becomes a "cooler" for 799... 

would be sweet to use the USA mode for cleans and then stomp to the BRIT mode for some grind...


----------



## keto

Rwinder said:


> I think the volume differences between the modes would make foot switchability useless though... unless each mode had its own volume controls... at that point its no longer a lunch box for 499 it becomes a "cooler" for 799...
> 
> would be sweet to use the USA mode for cleans and then stomp to the BRIT mode for some grind...


Even 3 way, if you know what's coming you can compensate for it. But 2 way as you mention would be just fine.

Found one at L&M Calgary today, it's in my trunk in the hotel parking lot  Played it for maybe 10 min in the store....some won't like how compressed and middy the Brit channel is, but I like it fine so far. USA and Pure are nice, tho I can't wait to hear it AT VOLUME when I get home tomorrow. Tone controls have very significant effect with minor moves, which is a good thing in my book. Played it thru an older Traynor 2x12 they had in the store, was surprised at how much bottom end there is in the amp - again, a good thing (and playing my AC15 a lot lately, bottom end is something I have missed).


----------



## Emohawk

Basementhack said:


> Gotta go look to order one of these today !
> 
> Keith


You get one so I can decide if I want one when I play yours!


----------



## Phlegethon

this isn't a well thought out reason to like an amp but its appearance is great. question of the day for me would be if it's able to do cleans when working with either seven strings or sixers with emg's in them. would be more concerned with the second one of the two . . . ever since I've put the emg's in I've basically said goodbye to pretty much any kind of clean unless I'm running one of my SS amps and even then I'm turning down my guitar's volume


----------



## keto

ya, for that you're probably going to need a 50-100w reasonably high clean headroom amp turned down, pickups are too hot to expect otherwise.


----------



## washburned

Phlegethon said:


> this isn't a well thought out reason to like an amp but its appearance is great. question of the day for me would be if it's able to do cleans when working with either seven strings or sixers with emg's in them. would be more concerned with the second one of the two . . . ever since I've put the emg's in I've basically said goodbye to pretty much any kind of clean unless I'm running one of my SS amps and even then I'm turning down my guitar's volume


 If you want clean, why go with a high output pickup? that's just like putting another gain stage in your amp and wondering why it won't stay clea past 4 anymore.


----------



## keto

Here is my review, which unfortunately is mostly negative. Will be taking it back to L&M tomorrow or Saturday. I tested for the past 2 hours using a USA Tele and a PRS Mira, thru a Vox 1x12 with a C.Blue (open back), and thru a Marshall 4x12 with G12H30's (obviously closed back).

Likes: 
-The USA channel is WOW, very very Fender, lots of headroom
-12AU7 / 2W mode will be very very usable for home use.
-I can run 15W mode full on (OK master all up, gain 12-3 o'clock...maybe not quite FULL ON) with a 1x12 2m away from me and easily stand it for an hour or more - really not a loud amp...my AC15 is louder, I think significantly so.
-sounds very good thru a 4x12 loaded with G12H30's, drives the cabinet very well. That one I can't sit quite so close or have the master quite so high =)

Stuff that's OK:
-Pure mode. Some spitty decay, but not as bad as Brit mode. Pure is the best sounding in 12AU7 mode. Possibly because it's a bit louder...USA still sounds good.
-sounds OK thru the Blue. I know, the dedicated cab has a Greenback. See above, the closest I have is the G12H30's, it does sound better thru them.
-USA takes pedals well. Pure mode doesn't really like drive or fuzz - tried 5 in all. Didn't do pedals very much in Brit, due to my dislike of the channel, see below.
-cleans up pretty well with volume knob, even at high gain.

Dislikes
-the tone stack. Too much bass, gets boomy - this obviously cannot be adjusted in Pure. Dialing out the BOOM in USA mode does make it a touch overbright, this from someone who likes a bright tone. Not a deal killer in USA mode by any means, see a little further on, just dial back the gain a touch to dial out a touch of bass (yes, I am saying there are 2 ways to go at the problem, and for me one is better than the other). Dialing up gain knob dramatically affects the tone and adds to the BOOM. I even commented to the salesman yesterday that it had *a lot* of bottom end, he attributed it to the 2x12...I sorta shrugged and kept playing and hoped it was true. Nope.
-Brit mode. I thought I liked compressed and middy (I do! I do!) Too much is too much though. And nasty spitty decay. Bad decay is evident in Pure, but less so. Doesn't seem to be there, or only at fully cranked vol + gain, in USA mode - I personally wouldn't use the amp that way, so non-issue in USA. Back to Brit, lower gain does make for less compression, but gain is very low by then. I really REALLY wanted to like Brit, and just hate it.
-this is a NOISY amp at idle. To double check that it wasn't something localized, I unplugged the Dark Horse and plugged in my AC15. Zero noise, despite fluorescent lighting. The DH has a LOUD hum that just does not go away, in any mode, at any volume. I had read this elsewhere but dismissed it. I was wrong to do so. You can clearly hear it playing quiet passages - it's more noise than your typical single coil 60 cycle hum, which really goes away when notes are played. I read on another forum that the wiring dress is poor, and some components aren't ideally located to keep noise to a minimum - not saying it is so or not so, but it *seems* to make sense given what I hear.
-modes should be footswitchable, but I knew that going in, and understand about wanting to keep costs down etc.

So, for me, the decision comes down to 'is USA mode alone reason enough to keep a noisy amp' and the answer is clearly 'no'.

I have no beef with Traynor, LOVED and miss my YCV50, had a YBA-1 I liked all right, would buy another of their products in a heartbeat.

IMHO, YMMV, etc etc. I am pretty sure I will be in the minority and am OK with that.


----------



## CocoTone

Please. I think no one, can really get to know an amp in two hours. Especially without gigging it. What may sound hohum alone, can excell in a band mix, or different rooms. hats why every player should have more than one amp.

CT.


----------



## keto

I don't disagree 100%...but I've owned about 30 amps over the last 10-12 years, and currently have 7 in the house. The things that *I* didn't like, like sputtery decay/loud hum/hate the Brit, are definite deal killers for me. Again, I understand I'll probably be in the minority of opinion on this amp.


----------



## Mooh

Keto...Thanks for the great review. Whether or not we all agree, thanks for taking the time to make us think about it all.

Few amps have had this much enthusiasm generated on this forum. Very cool, the amount of interest there is here.

Peace, Mooh.


----------



## Rwinder

KETO, could the BOOM you described be coming from the 4x12? when i demo'd it in store i used the stock cab 1x12 and it was bassy but i wouldn't describe it as being boomy... the stock cab also has a removable panel to make it a semi open back which would reduce boom... I also was underwhelmed with the brit channel but liked the USA...

I've been trying to decide between a DH, a AC15c1 and a fender tweed deluxe for my next amp... i think i need to try a DH at volume like you said... i only was able to play at "tv volume" in the store. 

also its interesting that you descibe the ac15 as lacking bass, is that compared to a 4x12 or other 1x12 combos? 

I have an AC30 that rumbles, it will drown out everything in its path and was hoping a AC15 would be a decent more useful substitute. 

cheers.


----------



## keto

Rwinder said:


> KETO, could the BOOM you described be coming from the 4x12? when i demo'd it in store i used the stock cab 1x12 and it was bassy but i wouldn't describe it as being boomy... the stock cab also has a removable panel to make it a semi open back which would reduce boom... I also was underwhelmed with the brit channel but liked the USA...
> 
> I've been trying to decide between a DH, a AC15c1 and a fender tweed deluxe for my next amp... i think i need to try a DH as volume like you said...
> 
> also its interesting that you descibe the ac15 as lacking bass, is that compared to a 4x12 or other 1x12 combos?
> 
> cheers.


Boominess was evident a) at the store thru a Traynor close back 2x12 b) thru the Vox open 1x12 c) LESS so thru the Marshall cab, though I will admit that I didn't put quite as much knob twiddling into it when it was plugged into that cab, ie, I didn't go looking for the problem specifically at any point.

I use my AC15 (the white handwired version) for jamming with friends and home use. My buddy was using a SuperChamp XD, and is now using a Rebel 30 + 1x12, and very much carries the bottom end of the mix, obviously to a lesser extent when he was running the 10" XD. It's not totally deficient of bass, and it is tweakable to an extent to add some, but to me it sounds best as a middy+top end amp. Certainly the DH is capable of MUCH more bottom end. I haven't ever run the AC15 either thru a 4x12 (gotta try that!) or head to head against one. I think my old YCV50 was an excellently EQ'd amp with a great Master. I know why I got rid of it, and it made sense at the time, but boy I do miss it. I know where it is, maybe I should just go reacquire it =P

Back to the DH, I reemphasize that, for me, USA mode was very very sweet...I love that Blackface style scooped clean.


----------



## mspizziri

I agree that USA mode is where this amp excels, I found the Brit mode was ok but I would probably use a pedal for OD sounds

I live in an apartment so volume is always and issue for me
I compared the Dark Horse on 2W with a Blues Jr and Pro Jr at lower volumes and the Dark Horse was the winner by far. I also ran a high gain pedal into it and it sounded so much better than the Fender amps

I think the Dark Horse in the USA mode is a great pedal platform for low and high volumes at a pretty decent price


----------



## jammers5

CocoTone said:


> Please. I think no one, can really get to know an amp in two hours. Especially without gigging it. What may sound hohum alone, can excell in a band mix, or different rooms. hats why every player should have more than one amp.
> 
> CT.


totally agree. I had this amp going in the store for 1/2 hour and bought it based on the store's 30-day return policy moreso than what heard. I noodle with the amp over the next few days and was very impressed by the range of tones I could coax out of it. I love mine, it sounds great to my ears and looks really cool!

Although I will admit we are all chasing tone, what we are chasing can be completely different!!!

J5


----------



## tvrfan203

Had problems with loud Hum as KETO indicated..another member had PM'd me about wiring issue and when I enquired I got the following response for what its worth.....

Shawn,

Sorry to hear of this , but a few units managed to slip out of the factory with improper wire dressing in the preamp. They were all to have been returned but I guess that did not happen. You can return that to L&M for exchange, and please test the new one before you leave the store.

Regards Guy
Guy Beresford
Customer Support
Yorkville Sound


----------



## Chito

It's all good on my end. I still took home a Traynor, albeit with 35 watts and 25 lbs more hahaha


----------



## tvrfan203

Chito, don't know much about the one you bought? Is it a head or combo? looking for a head but built the dark horse into an older rolltop so have limited size to accomodate the head? If its a head, how wide is it?


----------



## Chito

tvrfan, it's the YCS50H which is the head version. It's as big as most amp heads. I forgot to mention I paid a bit more too.


----------



## tvrfan203

Tks...rtn the Darkhorse to Long & McQuade (Traynor had told me to swap for new one) , but admit I had lost my love for it over the past week or two...checked out the Traynor but was WAY to big for my application, but made the mistake of sitting down in the amp room, with a Gibson and theMesa/Boogie TransAtlantic.....yea, you know how this story ends....more money, but WAY more amp, fits perfectly where the Darkhorse did and from half hour I played it there, WAY more tone options, two channels, footswitch, 3 power, etc......and NO hum!  Tks to all for help working through the hum issues with the DH....its a great amp at a great price, but they need to deal with some of the issues before launching...


----------



## keto

Same thing I did, came home with the TA and love it.


----------



## tvrfan203

Yea, certainaly proved the theory about not trying more expensive gear than you already have true  I did like the Darkhorse, and if hum wasnt an issue would not have even looked. Yorkville was awesome to try to help, even offered to pull one out of production before it made inventory if L&M didnt have one to swap (they did have one as it turned out) so can't complain about Traynor stepping up. But more I looked, more I was hearing it was always there, likely to lessor degree than I had, and once I tried the Transatlantic today, I spent the next 30 minutes convincing myself that ïts only money" Anyway, getting ready to plug in and spend a few hours on it now....tks again for help


----------



## LaRSin

If you want something cheap and simple. , you could always try the Kustom Defender 5H Guitar Map head

Buy Kustom Defender 5H Guitar Amp Head | Solid State Amp Heads | Musician's Friend


----------



## Fader

I took the Dark Horse at Central Music for a test drive, and sadly, the hum on that one was a definite buzz-kill as well.


----------



## tvrfan203

Its too bad because the low watt setting had some good sounds, with the gain up, and odd styling was nice to let the tube glow show.....but even though it cost more, the TransAtlantic is SOOO much more amp....after 3 days of steady playing on it, I have no doubt that in some cases you DO get what you pay for.....


----------



## JMann

keto said:


> Here is my review, which unfortunately is mostly negative. Will be taking it back to L&M tomorrow or Saturday. I tested for the past 2 hours using a USA Tele and a PRS Mira, thru a Vox 1x12 with a C.Blue (open back), and thru a Marshall 4x12 with G12H30's (obviously closed back).
> 
> Dislikes
> -the tone stack. Too much bass, gets boomy - this obviously cannot be adjusted in Pure. Dialing out the BOOM in USA mode does make it a touch overbright, this from someone who likes a bright tone. Not a deal killer in USA mode by any means, see a little further on, just dial back the gain a touch to dial out a touch of bass (yes, I am saying there are 2 ways to go at the problem, and for me one is better than the other). Dialing up gain knob dramatically affects the tone and adds to the BOOM. I even commented to the salesman yesterday that it had *a lot* of bottom end, he attributed it to the 2x12...I sorta shrugged and kept playing and hoped it was true. Nope.
> -Brit mode. I thought I liked compressed and middy (I do! I do!) Too much is too much though. And nasty spitty decay. Bad decay is evident in Pure, but less so. Doesn't seem to be there, or only at fully cranked vol + gain, in USA mode - I personally wouldn't use the amp that way, so non-issue in USA. Back to Brit, lower gain does make for less compression, but gain is very low by then. I really REALLY wanted to like Brit, and just hate it.
> -this is a NOISY amp at idle. To double check that it wasn't something localized, I unplugged the Dark Horse and plugged in my AC15. Zero noise, despite fluorescent lighting. The DH has a LOUD hum that just does not go away, in any mode, at any volume. I had read this elsewhere but dismissed it. I was wrong to do so. You can clearly hear it playing quiet passages - it's more noise than your typical single coil 60 cycle hum, which really goes away when notes are played. I read on another forum that the wiring dress is poor, and some components aren't ideally located to keep noise to a minimum - not saying it is so or not so, but it *seems* to make sense given what I hear.
> -modes should be footswitchable, but I knew that going in, and understand about wanting to keep costs down etc.
> 
> So, for me, the decision comes down to 'is USA mode alone reason enough to keep a noisy amp' and the answer is clearly 'no'.
> 
> I have no beef with Traynor, LOVED and miss my YCV50, had a YBA-1 I liked all right, would buy another of their products in a heartbeat.
> 
> IMHO, YMMV, etc etc. I am pretty sure I will be in the minority and am OK with that.


First off, great review Keto although I tip my hat to CocoTone's suggestion that 2 hours without gigging it is insufficient time to know the amp's capabilities and it's drawbacks.

However, after having had the amp for a couple of months now at home only I can attest to a couple of your dislikes. The boominess is quite prominent using the Traynor cab. So much so that until I read your post I wasn't sure what it was. In the Brit and Pure modes the open low E note, when struck with any kind of purpose and passion, booms and drones on for far too long. Annoying to say the least. I will experiment with the cab placement and close the back up to see if it helps but I'm not too confident it will help. I'll try it with with a closed back 2x12 also.

There is a hum upon power up and does remain when playing but it's not a big problem to my ears yet. It seems to fluctuate in strength on a day to day basis but never becomes overpowering. Even in the quietest moments (SuperTramp fans take notice) it is not really an issue for me but keep in mind it's home use only.

As for the compression on the Brit, I don't know what your frame of reference is but I got rid of a Budda SD18 partially for the over compression and the DH is no where near the SD18's and I HATE compression. Even a MB 5:25 I had had more. No, to my ears the Brit sounds very good even with the gain up past 1:00 depending on pups. Great light/medium break up and takes both my DLS and OCD well. Now the boominess on the Brit is a different story...

Thanks,
Jim


----------



## Yorkville

As the issue of hum in the DarkHorse seems to be showing up in the forums I thought I'd chime in to explain the situation and hopefully address some concerns. We're just starting to ship our third batch of amps and are pretty confident the units going out the door do not exhibit the level of noise found in some of the early amps. 

As noticed by a couple of users, the transformer leads were unnecessarily long in the first batch of 50 amps that went out in March. Most units were correctly dressed for minimal hum, but a few bad apples seem to have got through. We've had a couple of units returned to stores for noise but the vast majority seem to work great and the people taking them home tend to go home happy - so many in fact that we're doubling our run size with each batch. From the second run onwards, we have shortened the leads on the transformer and have set a tighter threshold on our noise testing so as to improve the quality of our product. 

If you believe you have a unit that hums at an unacceptable level when you turn up the controls (do this without a guitar plugged in to eliminate it as a source of noise), don't feel that you have to open the thing up and fix it yourself. Our amplifiers ship with a 2-year, no questions asked warranty.


----------



## Dennis.

Thanks, Yorkville, for that update. It's nice to know there's a producer who listens. 

Having said that, can anyone comment on the Dark Horse clean sound vs. the Egnator "Tweaker" clean, which is also 12AX7/6V6? 

I would really rather buy Canadian, but on paper it's a bit of a tough choice, and YouTube videos are not much help. I don't need/want a lot of tonal variety, just a dang good clean primary sound. Since we're in low-watt double-6V6 country, which one cops the best Princeton tone? Not that Fender is the bees knees or anything -- it's just the sound I like.

Thanks!


----------



## jammers5

I have a YCS100 and its a killer amp! I love the versatility of having 2 seperate channels. I also have a DH and love that as well, there's a little hum but nothing unbearable......


----------



## jammers5

jammers5 said:


> I have a YCS100 and its a killer amp! I love the versatility of having 2 seperate channels. I also have a DH and love that as well, there's a little hum but nothing unbearable......


check that...3 channels not 2


----------



## zurn

Not a word on this head since june, so the honeymoon is over for the ones who bought it. The question is, do you still have it or did you sell it ? Reason you sold it or kept it?


----------



## tvrfan203

Was one of early posters, who had trouble with hum....ended up trading it back in on a Mesa Boogie Transatlantic..twice the money, but 4 times the amp


----------



## Yorkville

For those of you who like the Dark Horse but would like more volume, we are going to introduce a 40 Watt version in January which should be shipping In March. It will be called the Iron Horse and it will also have an effects loop. Like the Dark Horse, it will be make in Canada. We haven't firmed up a price yet. There have been some comments about hum. Not all, but some amps made in the first two runs might hum, and the fix is an easy one. It turns out that the position of the wiring harness is critical. Send the amp back here or bring it to your dealer and we will redress the harness and your hum will be a distant memory. Once we realized we had an issue we set up a computer test in our factory to detect hum. Our quality control people couldn't hear the hum over the noise of the factory, Now, our computer can "see" if there is a problem. Between a new production procedure for dressing the harness and this computer test we can safely say that none get out of our factory humming.


----------



## Fader

What output tubes will the 40 have?


----------



## Chito

Thanks for the update Yorkville. Any specs on the Iron Horse 40? Depending on the power tubes, I might get rid of my YCV50 for it.


----------



## Paulonbass

Yorkville said:


> For those of you who like the Dark Horse but would like more volume, we are going to introduce a 40 Watt version in January which should be shipping In March. It will be called the Iron Horse and it will also have an effects loop. Like the Dark Horse, it will be make in Canada. We haven't firmed up a price yet. There have been some comments about hum. Not all, but some amps made in the first two runs might hum, and the fix is an easy one. It turns out that the position of the wiring harness is critical. Send the amp back here or bring it to your dealer and we will redress the harness and your hum will be a distant memory. Once we realized we had an issue we set up a computer test in our factory to detect hum. Our quality control people couldn't hear the hum over the noise of the factory, Now, our computer can "see" if there is a problem. Between a new production procedure for dressing the harness and this computer test we can safely say that none get out of our factory humming.


So you're saying that there has been a fix since I brought mine in (October 5th was my official repair date.)?
She still hums like she did in the first place (just been too busy to contact you guys).

I really like this amp and fell in love with the tones I was getting at L&M but I am using this amp to record and it's way too noisy and frankly that hum is pretty uninspiring.


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## Mooh

Iron Horse...great name for an amp. I grew up with an Iron Horse lawn mower. It was indestructible. 

I like the idea of the Iron Horse. Might have a serious listen.

Peace, Mooh.


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## CDWaterloo

Yorkville said:


> For those of you who like the Dark Horse but would like more volume, we are going to introduce a 40 Watt version in January which should be shipping In March. It will be called the Iron Horse and it will also have an effects loop. Like the Dark Horse, it will be make in Canada. We haven't firmed up a price yet.


hopefully it will be a lunchbox-size head. I am in the market for a powerful lunchbox amp with a buffered effects loop, and I love traynor amps.


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## Rahlstin

Recived one for Christmas from my wonderfull family (just the head) I requested it for recording purposes but unfortunatly it also hums like a bugger.... but, the tones are really great. So, tomorrow I take it back for replacement or redress. I sure hope it can be corrected. 

Q for Yorkville; What is the difference between the Rev 2 main board and Rev 3 main board?


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## Rahlstin

Exchanged today. New one has same great tone. Not as noisy. Still a bit of hum but alot more acceptable that the other one. Picked up the cabinet as well today. Great combination. One note, the B string an all guitars seems to send out a ringing almost like an occilation sound. Both amps did this.


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## Drazden

I've been running mine for a few months now; it was among the second production run, I believe... And should have gone back for a recall, but at the last minute, we got contacted and told to keep it. Anyway, hum isn't really an issue for me unless I take my guitar with P90's and put it right next to the speaker; that seems to get it. Other than that, it's been a super reliable, solid amp with more than enough power to jam out some covers on Canada Day in the summer (its first real test-run for me. And it held up great!)


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## Rahlstin

The hum has nothing to do with a guitar or cord. It did it with nothing plugged in and no magnetic interferring items on or close by. The hum appears to be the OT being picked up by the short connecting ribbon harness from the center knob board connection to the rh ish side of the main board. Im not sure if using a ribbon harness there is such a great idea. If you touch this harness while on, you can induce more hum and can hear your fingers move in the speaker. Moving the ribbon around a bit will lesson it or make it more pronounced. This amp has main board V-3 in it, with very short wires fr the OT to the speaker jacks the board with keyed connectors instead of flat blade connectors. Im wondering if that shorter ribbon harness could be shielded or at least have twisted pairs. Either way, a great amp, I bet a challange to be so compact and keep quiet. Anyways, love the size, I can throw it in my back pack, carry it easy and its going to be my back up amp on stage instead of my Fender blues Jr, if my Marshall rig packs it in during a show.


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## jammers5

After owing one from the 1st production run for almost a year, a minor issue prompted me to return it. I was given the option of repair or replace, and I chose to replace it. when I got this one home I was amazed at how much quieter and nicer sounding it was. turns out there may have been an issue with my amp for a while! I am quite impressed with how Traynor and Long and McQuade has treated me in this situation, and now that they have announced the Iron Horse, it looks as though the DH is going to get a big brother in my house!

J5


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## Rahlstin

Im wondering if a small choke wouldnt clean up some humm as well. Would have to be farily compact though.


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## Nork

Definitely lookin' into one of these, though I'm wondering about all this talk of the hum. i played one today for about 45 mins and loved the tones coming out of it. 6v6 is where it's at. i think it's gonna move my orange TT out of the way...bigger, better clean. solid, beefy. good. sound.


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## Rahlstin

My replacement is very good, humm has turned out to not bother at all and hasnt been an issue. I put a set of NOS NIB GE 6V6GTY tubes and an old long black plate 12AU7, make unkown. In preamp I switched to JJECC83S's. This thing rocks like I never thought possible. The 6V6 tone at full bore is really really good and really really loud. The 12AU7 tone is even better (from this black long plate which has a way hotter tone than anything I experimented with which was 8 different tubes) and is still pretty darn loud. (all done in pure mode)This is all through the DH15 Cab which I might say is one mighty fine sounding cabinet. Im going to buy another one and run a pair.


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## Rahlstin

Have used it for awhile now and it works very nice. Tone is pretty darn good for sure.


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## washburned

Rahlstin said:


> Exchanged today. New one has same great tone. Not as noisy. Still a bit of hum but alot more acceptable that the other one. Picked up the cabinet as well today. Great combination. One note, the B string an all guitars seems to send out a ringing almost like an occilation sound. Both amps did this.


 Not to be punny, but this rings a bell....remember an article a couple years ago in GP maybe that said a harmonic at the B frequency could be symptomatic of something....any tech experts know more about this?


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## Gene Machine

Hi I'm looking at getting a Dark horse, on sale new at local store. How do I know if it is the new ver. with updated wire routing? OIt's hard to tell in the guitar store about noise and hum, most places are wired poorly.

thanks


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## jammers5

Gene Machine said:


> Hi I'm looking at getting a Dark horse, on sale new at local store. How do I know if it is the new ver. with updated wire routing? OIt's hard to tell in the guitar store about noise and hum, most places are wired poorly.
> 
> thanks


Turn it up in the store without playing and see if it hums really loud. Barring that, ask what the store's return policy in the event you were to find it unbearable.

J5


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## sulphur

Though I haven't tried the head, I picked up the 1x12 cab and really like it! 
The greenbacks are a better fit with the Rebel 20 I have and the open/closed back design is a great option.


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## Wileyone

jammers5 said:


> Turn it up in the store without playing and see if it hums really loud. Barring that, ask what the store's return policy in the event you were to find it unbearable.
> 
> J5


Turning it up in the Store doesn't cut it. The Store is a lot bigger and noisier than your Home is. So the hum is harder to hear. 
I received my Dark Horse last week. Mine too had the dreaded hum. It wasn't loud, just annoying. It's much more pronounced in a smaller room than you can hear in the Store. I contacted Traynor and they sent me to the nearest dealer for a replacement (great customer service).
The new one still has a slight hum to it but most great tube Amps I have owned have had some sort of a hum or idiosyncrasy to them, nature of the Beast. As far as sound goes I Love it. Nice and clean, plug right into the amp and have fun.
Mine, set in the 2 watt mode is dead quiet. No hum at all. I have some NEC 6v6's I can't wait to try in it plus some nos Mullards that have been just waiting for a home. The only tube I have trouble with is 12au7 anyone have any suggestions?


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## ChunkStyle

*Dark Horse Buzz Fix*

Just to chime in, I bought a Dark Horse, used, a couple of weeks ago, and it was buzzing like crazy. To top it off, when you cranked the gain and volume, even with no signal going into it, it just started to feed back into itself (and not the good kind of feedback). Traynor support suggested I replace some tubes, which I did, but the buzz was still there. Obviously not noticeable with a raging distorted tone, but when going clean, it was ever-present.

Fast forward to today (Mar. 4, 2012) and I pulled the bottom off of the thing, to see if I could find the source of the buzz. Based on feedback in this thread, I started with the longest bundle of wires next to a transformer I could find. Lo and behold, moving those suckers a few centimeters reduced the buzz. Moving them an inch to the left (ironically closer to the transformer) eliminated the buzz altogether. Now it sounds killer and is completely quiet. Awesome amp for both single coil and humbucking pickups. I can't get enough of it.

Thanks to all for posting and helping identify the problem!


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## Rahlstin

Used the thing for over a year now. Still really like it. Im now using two of the 1x12 cabs, both with the back cover off. One day while setting up my Marshall (DSL100) rig for a show I hooked it up and everyone laughed at me...  so I said, I bet this thing will sound awesome and loud even at 2watts through my 4x12. Bass player said sure, right, I'll bet you a case of beer it wont. Silly bass players.....  mmm beer... Well it sounded great and was pretty darn loud! - plenty loud for a miced cab stage setup. Then I switched it to the 6V6's and wosers, very loud. Anyways, its great, i can put in in my duffle bag with all my cords, easy to haul around, cabs are nice n small and sound very good. I havent tried the 40 watt but I cant see me needing anymore than this amps power for what I use it for. Although, if anyone figures out how to put a serial fx loop in it that would be fantastic. Im sure its wouldnt be a big deal, just tight fit.


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## TWRC

I'm going to resurrect this thread from the dead as I just picked up a Dark Horse and love it despite some of the issues that some people have experienced.

I want to mention that my DH also hums, but it's not a deal breaker as it's actually very quiet now after a couple of quick modifications. The version that I have is the Rev. 3 board with the shorter transformer cables, so I think I have it pretty good compared to the older versions out there.

The first thing I did was move the ribbon cables off of the mount on the board and suspended them above and away from the transformer. The other thing I did was twist all of the transformer leads, wrapped them up with some electrical tape and re-attached their respective harnesses - shortening the cables that needed a bit of attention. 

All told, these mods took me about 30 minutes and there was a noticeable difference. I really recommend this to anyone who has one of these heads.

Another thing to note: due to the nature of these lunchbox type heads with exposed trannies and tubes etc, you WILL get a lot of hum especially if you're sitting 1-2ft away from the head while playing. Take a few steps back and you'll notice a huge difference.


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