# Wax, is it making a comeback?



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Was reading an article in Wired the other day. Seems turntables are making a comeback. I personally do not seem them in mainstream outlets yet, but apparently the trend back to wax is strengthening


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)




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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

i buy more vinyl than MP3s. the sound my records produce absolutely kill that of MP3s. Having said that, a cheap record player will not sound better than an MP3. i know this from experience. so those people grabbing the 100$ special from futureshop aren't going to benefit from records at all. 

In all seriousness, I like to have physical copies of stuff. my vinyl collection isn't large, but I do enjoy it more than throwing an MP3 on. I think things like "Record Store Day" are helping bring it back. 

my current player:


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

What is being offered in vinyl today? Are we back to all releases or selective


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Digital music has never sounded "right" to me - too harsh, cold and sharpened to perfection. Give me the warm old fat analogue sound, scratches, pops, hiss and all.

We live, breathe and experience an analogue world, a world of infinite quantities and a world we live our lives adjusting to. Digital recording takes finite slices of analogue sound and squishes (samples) it so close together that the average ear can't hear the spaces in between the slices that cause the harshness of digital recording. But subconsiously at least, our ears and brains know the difference.

Also, the "remastered" versions of older recordings is most often absolutely atrocious and even unlistenable. Listening to the Doors recorded and mixed by Bruce Botnick is a far different experience than enduring the "remix" produced by some tin eared studio hack.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2012)

Friends and family have been passing their collections on to me for years.
They know I still play/have vinyl. This past weekend a neighbour gives me
his. I now have 6 boxes full (about 450). It's too much. I'll be hitting a 
consignment shop that's been advertising on kijiji. Ranging from classical, 
country, rock (early/recent), soudtrack, some blues, 60's crooners and so on. 
Some mint, most good and a pile that look like your cat's been filing it's claws on. 
Anyone want a pick through the pile? I'm not going to spend any time cataloging 
them, but if there's something you're looking for, let me know. It may be there. 
Came across this (unknown to me) rare gem. 
Dudes - We're no Angels




























[video=youtube;_q0PcxsipII]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q0PcxsipII[/video]


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## hummingway (Aug 4, 2011)

I miss record covers!

The 70's prog rock thread reminded me of some of the strengths of that era; the music was art, including the packaging. There was a real effort to give something more to the public then a 3 minute, here today-gone tomorrow, single. 

That said, I split my time between a tiny float home in Victoria and a sailboat, my studio is in storage and I'm not quite sure what I'd do with a stack of vinyl.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

bluzfish said:


> Digital music has never sounded "right" to me - too harsh, cold and sharpened to perfection. Give me the warm old fat analogue sound, scratches, pops, hiss and all.


The louder the crackle when you drop the needle the harder the record rocks! Nothing gets my blood boiling like that 1/2 second BEFORE Malcolm Young or Pete Townshend hit the first chord.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

GuitarsCanada said:


> What is being offered in vinyl today? Are we back to all releases or selective


almost all (anything that is charted) music that is being released today comes out on vinyl as well.


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## FrankyNoTone (Feb 27, 2012)

bluzfish said:


> ...We live, breathe and experience an analogue world, a world of infinite quantities...


Actually, its a whacky quantum world out there with only finite possibilities. And furthermore, all our senses are basically pulse width modulated binary signals as the sensors fire off electrical impulses through the nerves. Analog is an illusion in our brains.

As for vinyl... oh let's see:

1) Twist head to read tiny print on edge of record to find record one wants
2) Carefully take out record and put it on platter
3) Put on center lock/weight to take warp out of record and avoid slippage
4) Squeeze and hover anti-static ion gun over record
5) Squirt cleaning/lubricant fluid on cleaning brush and clean record.
6) Brush needle free of lint.
7) Put the needle on the record.
8) Enjoy 20 minutes of music.
9) Get out of your comfty chair
10) Unlock center lock
11) Flip over record
12) Repeat steps 3-8
...no thanks.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

I don't think digital music is harsh and cold. I do think vinyl is warmer though. I also find more vinyl has more layers, instrument separation, and clarity.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Roryfan said:


> The louder the crackle when you drop the needle the harder the record rocks! Nothing gets my blood boiling like that 1/2 second BEFORE Malcolm Young or Pete Townshend hit the first chord.


I hadn't thought of that but it is so true. That 1/2 second of pops and crackles always gives me the thrill of anticipation of what is to come.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

But when your playback format is a 192 bit encoded MP3 it's going to sound like crap anyway, it doesn't matter how great it sounds at the Mastering studio.



nkjanssen said:


> bluzfish said:
> 
> 
> > Digital music has never sounded "right" to me - too harsh, cold and sharpened to perfection. Give me the warm old fat analogue sound, scratches, pops, hiss and all.
> ...


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

The whole thing with the vinyl is going to be the price consumers will pay for new pressings. I would think they will be rather expensive.
A music insider years ago told me that _most_ record companies were in fact, corporate giants in the textile industry.
They didn't care so much what was on the vinyl but how many tons of it they were able to sell.


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## hummingway (Aug 4, 2011)

FrankyNoTone said:


> Actually, its a whacky quantum world out there with only finite possibilities. And furthermore, all our senses are basically pulse width modulated binary signals as the sensors fire off electrical impulses through the nerves. Analog is an illusion in our brains.
> 
> As for vinyl... oh let's see:
> 
> ...


This is true however the resolution of quantum mechanics is considerably finer then that of a digital recording. Hearing is the one sense that resolves itself directly in the brain and is possibly the first sense developed after the central nervous system began resolving in the mass of neurons we call a brain. Some of us have perceived higher fidelity in some analogue recording mediums; not that I want to go back to editing tape with a razor blade.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

FrankyNoTone said:


> Actually, its a whacky quantum world out there with only finite possibilities. And furthermore, all our senses are basically pulse width modulated binary signals as the sensors fire off electrical impulses through the nerves. Analog is an illusion in our brains.
> 
> As for vinyl... oh let's see:
> 
> ...


you forgot step A-1 Franky....wash yer' hands first.
cheers. d


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

No sir. 44.1kHz 16 bit CD's are also a crappy medium. Digital isn't the problem, the sample rate & bit rate is the issue.



nkjanssen said:


> hardasmum said:
> 
> 
> > But when your playback format is a 192 bit encoded MP3 it's going to sound like crap anyway, it doesn't matter how great it sounds at the Mastering studio.
> ...


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2012)

step 2) breaks down to a)-edge of record on palm, pull up the sleeve.
b)-with record half out, reach middle finger under with tip on the hole
or use the thumb.
c)-pull out record and cradle between palms edge on edge.

3) if the records warped, it doesn't touch my platter. it goes outside
for skeet shooting. lol.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

I was alluding to the theory that humans can perceive sound above 20 kHz. It is suggested that as an analog medium, vinyl has the abilty to reproduce program above 20 kHz while a CD is fixed at 22 kHz. 

This is one of the major arguments in the vinyl VS CD debate and would explain why people use terms like "warm" when referring to vinyl recordings. 

This is an interesting read about sample and bit rates. The author mentions "voodoo", but "voodoo" is something us guitar gearheads and lovers of tube amps can attest to.

http://www.tweakheadz.com/16_vs_24_bit_audio.htm

My original comment was in regards to people thinking digital sounds harsh and I was suggesting that most people listen to badly encoded MP3's to begin with and that may influence their negative feeling about digital recordings. 


nkjanssen said:


> hardasmum said:
> 
> 
> > No sir. 44.1kHz 16 bit CD's are also a crappy medium. Digital isn't the problem, the sample rate & bit rate is the issue.
> ...


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Interesting read, guys. Could any of the perceived warmth of vinyl be attributed to the lack of track separation in older recordings? For example, if a recording was made using digital gear but the band played live in the same room and the guitars bled into the vocal mic, would that add any warmth?


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

Vinyl rules. Superior in all aspects. Most new releases are now being sold with a free download (i.e. .flac, mp3, etc..) so there are no longer any really good excuses for not buying LP's anymore. I have recently bought The Tea Party's new double live album which has yet to be released, Choice of Weapon from The Cult, and Clockwork Angels from Rush. 

CD's blow dead goats. Always have.. Always will. I predict the complete death of CD's in 5-10 years and expect to see mail order vinyl and downloads as the way things are headed.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

I've bought CD re-releases and played them side by each with the originals on vinyl. When you do that you can really hear the difference. A good tube amp with studio monitors helps the definition.

Of course, live is the still best medium for listening to music...


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## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

nkjanssen said:


> Really? Do you find the dynamic range of vinyl superior to 16 bit digital?


Yes. Even if it is not. Peace.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I got rid of my vinyl collection 15 years ago. Not a single regret.


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## hummingway (Aug 4, 2011)

nkjanssen said:


> Now I have no idea what you're saying. No, it's not possible to have a good sounding CD? Or no, your not suggesting its not possible to have a good sounding CD? Frankly, sample rate and bit rate issues are overblown. Do 96/24 or 192/24 sound better than 44.1/16? Maybe or maybe not. Lots of factors other than sample rate and bit rate are much more significant when your down to those kind of fine strokes. Bottom line - if you can't make a CD sound good, it's not the sample rate and bit rate that are the problems.


They have the capability to sound better. Tonal range is superior as is definition. Tonal range can be superior with vinyl as well. If it's not in the music in the first place it won't matter but it does provide the capability. 

Whether you can make a CD sound good or not isn't germane.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

nkjanssen said:


> Huh???????


Yuuuuuup!!


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## prodigal_son (Apr 23, 2009)

nkjanssen said:


> Buuuuuurrrp!!!!


Now yer talkin' sonny!! 

I like vinyl for the package, the nostalgia, the dynamics, channel separation, yadda yadda.. I know one thing for sure is that with a decent multi band EQ component, with an LP, one can really dig out the various aspects of any given track much more effectively than with an .mp3 or a CD though I much prefer .flac if I need to go digital for anything. Honestly, I think this debate is more about whether something has been tracked onto a tape vs. a hard drive.:banana:


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

When 78's were phased out by 45's and 33's and the 8 track stereo in your car that changed tracks right in the middle of the solo were all that we had , well,it was great, wasn't it?
We heard all of the music and even with the mediums as lousy as they were ,we could play it over and over and over.Ring any bells?
Along comes digital technology and hundreds of songs stored in the palm of your hand. 
Progress, better fidelity and the toys that we have to produce and reproduce our music.
Lousy dynamic cartridges gave way to moving coil,8 tracks to compact casette to DAT. Good ADA converters gave way to better ones...and so on and..........
The records I played over and over were all about the content.
For me,Electric Ladyland was my headphone favourite.
Then I had the opportunity to hear some direct to disc............oh....my.....god....
My poor speakers took a massive beating.Dynamic range and amazing freqs. into the sub sonics! 
My point.....low grade massed produced vinyl sounds like crap compared to limited runs and direct to disc pressings,
but if that's all you've got, you put up with the background noise.
Same goes with the digi stuff, the high end studio gear that most consumers will never hear is out there and digital recording is responsible for the _Inde_pendent music explosion.It's way cheaper than analog and can only get better.
The good stuff does, and always did cost more than most consumers would ever consider spending.
The warmth that people talk about is the way that analog works,subtle roll offs and dolby encoding and decoding going on and tape bias and a whole bunch of other stuff going on that still makes recording (tracking at least)with tape the preference for many artists today.
When you take away that mojo analog process and all that it encompasses, you are left with silence between the notes.
That takes some getting used to and can be percieved as cold or harsh.
FWIW
cheers, d.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Nope. No matter how you analyse it, side by side comparisons of the same music, played back from CD and vinyl or reel tape, sounds so much fatter and more powerful from the reel or the turnatable. Of course you need to listen through a system of enough quality to bring out the difference. An Ipod normally cranking low grade Itunes MP3s to Hendrix level distortion through the cheap ear buds that came with the player does not qualify.

Even though each were originally recorded analogue, try a CD/Vinyl comparison of the drum intro to "Money for Nothin" or the opening chords of "Bloody Well Right" or "Whole Lotta Love" for example. There IS a difference.


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2012)

My headphone fav was klaatu and elp.


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2012)

'roryfan' left not too long ago with a trunk full of records. cool guy.
we spent more time chating than checking records. he took the cream
of the crop.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

laristotle said:


> 'roryfan' left not too long ago with a trunk full of records. cool guy.
> we spent more time chating than checking records. he took the cream
> of the crop.


Thanks for the brewskie, Larry! I think I forgot to grab The White Album ("#9, #9, #9), but Who's Next was definitely worth a quarter. My prog rock buddy will be thrilled to get the Yes and I promise to only break out the old school country if I'm drunk on rye.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Check out the prices...not bad actually........New Rock - Vinyl Records Store 
or not.....Vinyl Garage: Rare LP's: The 50 most expensive vinyl records!


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I think it would be a struggle to find any stores around here that have vinyl. Then again, I have not been in a "record" store in several years.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

there are a few here in edmonton.

there's at least 3 I can think of that get a steady stream of buyers.

there's a couple other smaller ones as well that I don't see lasting very long, just because they seem to be a "hey vinyl is back lets open a store" type deal.


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2012)

seen this ad on kijiji

Hundreds and Hundreds of Records - $1 EACH !!! - Oakville / Halton Region CDs & DVDs For Sale - Kijiji Oakville / Halton Region Canada.



04-Jul-12 Price $1.00Address Georgetown, ON L7G 4B5, Canada



 I am relocating my store and need to downsize to fit in the new place. Therefore I am selling hundreds 
of high quality records for only $1 each. Groups include - Dire Straits - Guess Who - Genesis - Foghat 
all kinds of great rock albums I have multiples of and just good stuff in general. This is a ONE TIME OFFER. 
These lps are all playable - many like new. Hurry down for best selection - maybe 1500 lps at this price today !!

Misc Man
330 Guelph st unit 9
Georgetown On l7g4b5

905 - 877 - 3977


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

The digital domain is a complex mistress.

1) Digital only sounds as good as the sum of it's process/implentation. Unfortunately the first part of the process is completely out of our control, Analog to Digital converters. Crappy A/D converters in the early 80s is the reason CDs from that time period sound so bad. It still can be an issue today, especially with allot of artists doing stuff at home.
2) Digital allows mixing and mastering engineers to do stupid things. This isn't as much of an issue with Vinyl, there are certain physical constraints when mastering for vinyl. These constraints handcuff the engineers and the end result is a better sounding implementation.
3) Digital to Analog conversion isn't a trivial thing. Done without the proper filters it creates many artefacts that are unnatural sounding to our ears. The problem can be reduce with higher sample rates like 24/96 and 24/192. Putting a little more research/money into your DAC is wise.


So to sum it up:

Recording done with high quality analog to digital converters, mixed and mastered by competent individuals that aren't participating in the loudness war, played back through a well implemented Digital to Analog converter will sound as good or better than a pure analog source.

IMO, there is nothing romantic about the high noise floor, clicks and pops and inner groove distortion when playing vinyl. The later is the real killer for me, it's can be minimized but never completely eliminated.

The worst part about vinyl is that it degrades with each play. IMO, digital is just more accurate (not harsh), when compared to allot of worn out vinyl that people listen to.


.02


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

to tell you the truth...i have a small, but modest collection of vinyl...i was born in the 80's...but my dad was a wedding DJ, so i grew up with all these old vinyl's, 33's and 45's...value village, yard sales, i'd pick up records that interest me...
i got this nice Stanton record player...you can even hook it up to a computer and 'rip' albums if you want...i've just had it on the stereo and can listen to these LP's with no issue...FM's Rumours...Brothers in Arms, Hotel California, James Gang Rides Again...i introduced my kid to VH with their first LP...the look on my kids face when eruption started was priceless...


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

All of my music is now on a hard drive.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Robert1950 said:


> All of my music is now on a hard drive.


 I transferred alot of mine to VHS HI-FI.


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

> All of my music is now on a hard drive


Just a little advice - Back up, back up and back up some more. I've had customers using tandem hard drives to store music and video, and have had disastrous crashes that took out both drives, losing everything.
While I see the future in hard drive storage, I still like having the hard media.


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## zurn (Oct 21, 2009)

Robert1950 said:


> All of my music is now on a hard drive.


Ditto here, I have everything on my HD and also have an external NAS with two HD in raid for a backup.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

In the 80s for lack of storage space, I gave away all my vinyl after recording them on hundreds of cassettes. Unfortunately, audio tape really only has a shelf life of 20 years or about, so I committed everything to a couple hundred gigs of hard drive. I have copies of the core collection on 4 seperate drives and will continue to update and pass the collection along to new drives as the old ones age. Even CDs may corrode after 20 years or less if poorly stored, so I keep my music this way for eternal preservation. Everything is at a high sample rate so the quality is not too bad.


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