# Building an amp - dumb idea?



## NGroeneveld (Jan 23, 2011)

I like soldering. So I was thinking about building my own amp off of a Mod Kits 102 5 watt kit. But the kit costs $215, plus shipping plus duty. So that's prolly around an extra $60 right there. Then I need to build a cab, get grill cloth, tolex etc, and on top of that - buy a speaker too! Holy sh*t! - now I'm $500 bucks into this project! Can't I just go out and buy a decent 5 watt amp for less, same, or a bit more dough? Even a used amp seems like a better option...

Advice anyone?


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## -ST- (Feb 2, 2008)

> I like soldering


I guess the question is... "how much".

When I think of most do it yourself projects, if you actually pay yourself your regular salary for the time that you will put in, it's probably not a bargain. It has to be a labour of love. 

So, are you looking for an amp, or a hobby?


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

Somewhat like "should I build a Partscaster"? You should know going in you'll likely never get back your cash. I might have used the word "investment" but its so much more than just cash. When you build your own (anything) you get what YOU want. Furthermore, its the process that's important, not the end result so much. So to answer your question, I would say not worth it from a cash perspective but that's only a small part of your decision. If the cash thing is what's really bothering you, there are creative ways to keep the expenses down.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Probably a dumb idea financially, but so is playing guitar.


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

NGroeneveld said:


> I like soldering. So I was thinking about building my own amp off of a Mod Kits 102 5 watt kit. But the kit costs $215, plus shipping plus duty. So that's prolly around an extra $60 right there. Then I need to build a cab, get grill cloth, tolex etc, and on top of that - buy a speaker too! Holy sh*t! - now I'm $500 bucks into this project! Can't I just go out and buy a decent 5 watt amp for less, same, or a bit more dough? Even a used amp seems like a better option...
> 
> Advice anyone?


i actually, about 5 months ago, finished an 18W clone...definitely a labour of love...i wanted something that I built, something I made...that was something a little more important...sure you can find used amps for about the same price...but when i priced my kit out...it was cheaper by about $400 to build it myself...hows that for a bargain...money saved, and something to call mine, all mine...

it takes patience...a level head and thinking...and being not afraid to re-read the instructions/schematics five times or more...

i say get it...and have fun...make it a head...do you have a speaker cab to plug into? that would save money, and provide more tonal options...instead of a tolexed headshell...why not just varnish or laquer the wood and build something yourself...or even find a little SS amp to gut and put your parts into...

its fun...but addictive! i think i want either a 1987x or JCM800 clone next...maybe even the ceiratone badcat copy...


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I've built a 5E3 clone and have received the materials to start a Matchless Spitfire clone.

Yes, you can get amps as cheap or cheaper but I don't think the main purpose ofthese kits is to save money, or at least that was not what motivated me to build one.

It's fun and gratifying when the thing actually works AND, sounds damn good.


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

NGroeneveld said:


> I like soldering. So I was thinking about building my own amp off of a Mod Kits 102 5 watt kit. But the kit costs $215, plus shipping plus duty. So that's prolly around an extra $60 right there. Then I need to build a cab, get grill cloth, tolex etc, and on top of that - buy a speaker too! Holy sh*t! - now I'm $500 bucks into this project! Can't I just go out and buy a decent 5 watt amp for less, same, or a bit more dough? Even a used amp seems like a better option...
> 
> Advice anyone?


The other posts have had good advice. I would add that many guys don't realize that the days of kits being cheaper than a "store bought" unit are LONG gone! When you manufacture in large volumes, you buy your parts in large volumes, so you get a FAR better cost price! Much of the assembly can be done with machines, which makes it even cheaper.

Once you could buy something called a Heathkit and build your own TV or home organ. They died out in the mid 70's or so. Couldn't compete at all by price alone.

It's just not 1955 anymore!

With a guitar amp, a kit DOES give you some education in what parts look like and some practice in soldering! That' worth something in itself. It won't teach you a damn thing about how the amp actually works, though. Or how to modify it for a different tone.

However, if you stick with it and learn enough you can reach the point where you don't need a kit. You can build your own amp in a totally custom way from scratch! It will ALWAYS cost more than a store bought amp! You can't compete with assembly machines and Chinese fingers.

The extra value is in having something that is a custom fit, instead of a mass-produced "cookie cutter" amp. Being hand wired, it will likely be much better quality and last much longer without problems. If a problem does crop up, it will be FAR easier to fix, saving service costs! If you want to modify it, that's much easier to do as well. 

Take a good look at a printed circuit board amp like a Dual Rectifier Boogie and try to imagine making any REAL mods, other than just moving a wire or two or maybe changing the value of a resistor or a cap. A deep mod is just out of the question. With an amp you hand built yourself, it would be a breeze by comparison.

The advantages to a kit or better yet, a scratch build come AFTER you have the amp! These may not have been in the original cost price but they are very real and sooner or later you will be very glad of them!

Wild Bill/Busen Amps


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## NGroeneveld (Jan 23, 2011)

Thanks guys - I guess I was thinking I could build a tube amp and save some money but if that's not the case then I will drop that idea and stick to building guitars. Thats already got the 'labour of love' angle covered already!


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## Beach Bob (Sep 12, 2009)

NGroeneveld said:


> Thanks guys - I guess I was thinking I could build a tube amp and save some money but if that's not the case then I will drop that idea and stick to building guitars. Thats already got the 'labour of love' angle covered already!


Fair enough... but nothing sounds like a nicely built amp.... I built a Marshall 18w clone and its an amazing amp from a sound perspective...don't think of it as a labour of love thing, think of it as a love of sound thing.


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## Emohawk (Feb 3, 2006)

Lots of good comments here. I'll throw in my $.02 worth.

I've build a dozen or so amps. It is true in most cases you're not "saving" any money, but it depends on what you build. If you want to build something like a Tweed or Blackface Fender, Marshall 18w clone or a 2203/2204 type of thing in a head you're looking at $800-$1000 to do a really nice job, or 300-400 more if you want to go crazy with "boutique" parts (which is more snake oil than function, IMO). In that case, you can probably do as well or better on a used unit. But, if you were to build a clone of a Bad Cat, which I have done, you probably will save money regardless of the parts you use. I built a Hot Cat 30 clone that cost me about $800-900 including the head cabinet. Even with boutique iron I still would have been only in the $1200 range. It's the best sounding amp I have, and there's a dozen or so around the house.

Also, it depends on what you want to accomplish. For me it is mostly about the enjoyment of doing the build, and the pleasure of playing through an amp that I built myself. I doubt I've really saved much (if any) money in the ones I've built (or the ones I have on deck waiting to be built), but the fun factor & satisfaction was well worth it.

There's also the "tweak" factor. You can mod the circuit all you want and there's no worry about devaluing the original amp. Bill's point about point-to-point reliability is also a good one.

Another option is to track down a used Epiphone Valve Jr or something similar & modify it to your liking. I have one that I've added a tone control, a gain boost, a "fat" switch, upgraded the OT, and reworked the circuit to be more "Marshally". Total cost was about $350, and I bought the VJ *new*. My old roommate used to use it in small space jams with a loud drummer & had no problem keeping up. He (and the other guys) said it sounded better than his Mesa Roadster in that context. No usable clean at that volume really, but as a pure rock amp it kills.

I warn you, amp building is addictive!


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

I think there ARE still some ways to save money and build your own. The commercially available kits probably aren't the answer to that. Those guys are trying to turn a profit - can you blame them?

Old film projectors is one option to consider. There are at least a couple of guys making good money by recycling the major cost components from these (chassis, transformers, etc) and rewiring the guts to make them work well as guitar amps.

I imagine there are some other similar opportunities in old organ amps, old hi fi systems, etc. Maybe even old TV's? Those days of tubes amps everywhere are pretty far behind us now, but it shouldn't be all that hard to dig something up that's got useful bits and pieces for basically free.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Emohawk said:


> Another option is to track down a used Epiphone Valve Jr or something similar & modify it to your liking. I have one that I've added a tone control, a gain boost, a "fat" switch, upgraded the OT, and reworked the circuit to be more "Marshally". Total cost was about $350, and I bought the VJ *new*. My old roommate used to use it in small space jams with a loud drummer & had no problem keeping up. He (and the other guys) said it sounded better than his Mesa Roadster in that context. No usable clean at that volume really, but as a pure rock amp it kills.
> 
> I warn you, amp building is addictive!


Antique Electronics Supply sells a kits that turns an Epiphone Valve Junior into an 18 watt almost Marshal for about $25 + shipping. Haven't tried one yet but I'm dying to.


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## Tarbender (Apr 7, 2006)

+1 on the Epiphone Valve Jr.. I tweaked and refined some of the filters, changed the tranny and came away with a smoking little amp and a great experience to get your feet wet before jumping into building an amp from scratch. And there are pages and pages of help on these amps and mods on the net.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Tarbender said:


> +1 on the Epiphone Valve Jr.. I tweaked and refined some of the filters, changed the tranny and came away with a smoking little amp and a great experience to get your feet wet before jumping into building an amp from scratch. And there are pages and pages of help on these amps and mods on the net.


I bought a 3rd generation model VJ to do experiment with some of the many mods on the net but found many of the major improvement suggestions were already incorperated, short of things like the MM mods. They improved a lot of the simple circuit and component suggestions already which saved some of the money I was intending to spend. The amp is so basic, even a neophyte can follow the circuits to make further mods and tweaking.

I like mine the way it is right now, but I will perhaps do some more experimenting in the future. There are so many possible simple changes like clipping bridges and varying component values that, while a cool little off-the-shelf model will sound great, you can personalize it to your preferences. And there are plenty of easy to follow online instructions and demos out there that even an inexperienced newbie can get started.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

If you're looking for a "project" diy amp, this might work. 
http://cosprings.craigslist.org/ele/4001340502.html
I say might 'cause I havn't dug into mine, yet. The tubes look like they might be 12ax7's and they glow a purty blue when they're on. They even blink when on stand by. They were a "white box" scam when they appeared in parking lots, sold from the back of a van as factory over-runs. As far as surround sound speakers go they're garbage, but modified as a guitar amp they might work. I think I paid $25 for mine at a second hand store.....with no remote. As far as I can tell they never came with one. Not too sure what would be involved with converting them but probably less that converting an old radio or record player. Restoring old tube radios, record players and the like is a hobby of mine. And it seems that Antique Electronics Supply sells what I need to finish repairing my 1950 Webster turntable and getting it back into the old Electrohome.


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## NGroeneveld (Jan 23, 2011)

Thanks for all the input guys!! I will keep thinking about it and maybe try a DIY pedal or two to keep the ol' soldering iron hot for a while.


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## Emohawk (Feb 3, 2006)

True enough. I think mine is a V2, but I've also reworked the circuit quite a lot on top of doing the upgrades.

The Antique Audio Supply kit doesn't include an output transformer. You'd need to swap the minuscule SE unit for a 18w (or higher) push-pull OT.



bluzfish said:


> I bought a 3rd generation model VJ to do experiment with some of the many mods on the net but found many of the major improvement suggestions were already incorperated, short of things like the MM mods. They improved a lot of the simple circuit and component suggestions already which saved some of the money I was intending to spend. The amp is so basic, even a neophyte can follow the circuits to make further mods and tweaking.
> 
> I like mine the way it is right now, but I will perhaps do some more experimenting in the future. There are so many possible simple changes like clipping bridges and varying component values that, while a cool little off-the-shelf model will sound great, you can personalize it to your preferences. And there are plenty of easy to follow online instructions and demos out there that even an inexperienced newbie can get started.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Building a clone of one of the more legendary "golden era" tube amps is a damn sight cheaper than buying one.

But that's a price comparison between a self-built and an original, and completely ignores the modern repro market that has sprung up. When your only choices were making your own tweed Champ copy or buying an _actual_ tweed Champ, making your own from a kit was very cost effective. Once manufacturers starting churning out their 5W models, it became pointless to build your own.

Having said that, there are plenty of 2nd hand 3-tube (preamp, power, and rectifier) or 2-tube (preamp, power, but solid-state rectifier) 5W amps on the market, and they can give you an inexpensive headstart and basis for modding. The Epi Valve Jr. and Fender Champion 600 are both excellent examples. They come with minimal controls, but can be easily transformed to have more control.


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