# Why put a 3-way switch on a strat?



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

So it is time once again to get into the guta of my old Northern.

Redoing the pots, switch and saddle.

Tuners and pups and Jack are done.

None of that mattered.....

When the guitar was built it only had a 3-way. Why? Is this just done to reduce labour and cost because I cannot understand why you would only want 60% of the combinations available for the sake of 2 solders.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Five-ways, in historical perspective, are comparatively recent developments. That's why the 2 and 4 positions were often referred to as the "in-between", since they required the player to carefully nudge the switch a bit to get both neck and middle, or bridge and middle. It's a bit like asking why none of those early EHX pedals had indicator LEDs. The switches that permitted TB with an indicator weren't in production until the mid-'90s.

Can one use a 3-way with a Strat? Sure. Probably the best way is to use it to get the "Telecaster" selections (N, N+B, B), *and* the cluck, is to wire up one of the Tone pots as master tone (i.e., both the switch and wiring are exactly like a Tele), and repurpose the other tone pot as a volume control for the middle pickup. The middle PU gets wired directly to that pot, and the pot's output goes to the output jack. If you don't want cluck, you just turn it down. You don't get any control over the _tone_ of the middle PU in that configuration, but then one wasn't really using the cluck positions to get a warm sound in the first place.

Alternatively, one keeps the master volume/master-tone wiring, but repurposes one of the tone control holes in the pickguard for a toggle to enable/disable the middle PUconnection to the master volume. That will yield 6 different pickup selections, which is 16% 20% better than a 5-way.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I did not know that a 5-way was a recentish development.

How recentish? 

....also, now I might really love this idea of middle pup on a volume control with a master tone/volume. That sounds fun!


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Yeah, I would guess it’s a throwback to the original 3 way switch that would be on older Strats. Even reissues nowadays come with a 5 way installed, but have a 3 way in the case candy baggie in case someone wants it to be more authentic.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

It is a 70's Japanese guitar so it is starting to sound a lot like 3 ways were just the way it was.

See, so much to learn. Thanks fellows.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Mark Brown said:


> I did not know that a 5-way was a recentish development.
> 
> How recentish?
> 
> ....also, now I might really love this idea of middle pup on a volume control with a master tone/volume. That sounds fun!


Don't quote me, but probably early-to-mid-'70s or so. It's hard to think of many recordings before then where one heard the cluck positions. Not that NOBODY tried to use them, but they weren't the sort of thing you could get live with any degree of consistency or distraction (while playing).


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Mark Brown said:


> It is a 70's Japanese guitar so it is starting to sound a lot like 3 ways were just the way it was...


Yes, I think that's right.

I own a 1978 MIJ Fresher Straighter (love that weirdo name) which is an exact copy of a Strat - and it also has a 3 way switch. I'm used to nudging the switch though and it holds well, so not gonna change it unless I swap out the pickups.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

FatStrat2 said:


> Yes, I think that's right.
> 
> I own a 1978 MIJ Fresher Straighter (love that weirdo name) which is an exact copy of a Strat - and it also has a 3 way switch. I'm used to nudging the switch though and it holds well, so not gonna change it unless I swap out the pickups.


This is the thing. I swapped the pups a while back and left the switch because "if it ain't broke" but I'm gearing up to do a complete rewire with some different pups so I thought why not.

See and I just went and assumed people were cheap and lazy.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

When it comes to Strats (loosely defined) I started considering the design features I liked and those I disliked and found that it's easier and less expensive to build what I want than it is to buy one

There seems to be a fair bit in both of those categories for me.

I like the scale length, single coil pickups, bolt on necks, the body shape and the balance, six point floating vibrato.

I do NOT like the needless (for me) tone controls, front mounted jack, pickguard mounted guts, vintage style tuners, six point floating vibrato (there are better designs available IMO).


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Pick guard mounted guts is a blessing and a curse. I like then when its all out in the open everything is stupid easy and there isn't a lot of mucking about. I do not like that if I want to change anything I might as well change everything for the effort to get in there.

I'm my humble (probably wrong) however, the ability to have a loaded pick guard and just swap everything is rather appealing. I will find myself in this position shortly and I can see my curiosity to try new techniques and combinations really ramping up.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Mark Brown said:


> I did not know that a 5-way was a recentish development.
> 
> How recentish?


Back in the late 60's Hendrix was the most famous guy to set his switch to those positions. Checking on the net it looks like Fender started offering the 5 way in '77.


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## 2N1305 (Nov 2, 2009)

Very good information here, especially regarding the tone control on the middle pickup, I want to try that!

But I am surprised that none of you have mentioned the 'matchstick" trick. I can't clearly remember how it works, but that's how they used to make the three-way switch selector stay in the "in-between" positions to get "that sound". Can't remember where I read this, probably a very old, seventies or eighties guitar player magazine.

I bought a three way switch in the nineties for my strat copy. My guitar is "vintage".


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

I can tell you why I have a 3 way switch in mine:
1. The middle pickup on its own to me is useless.
2. position 2 and 4 are useless to me without having a blend control.
3. Having a neck and bridge combo on a strat (like on a Tele) is so much better than all of the things above mentioned that I could never imagine going back.

My strat is wired exactly like a Tele. 3 positions, volume and tone.

BUT.. the second tone knob blends in the middle pickup into any position which does the exact same thing as a 5 way but with more control over the blend as well as a tone control on the bridge and the very nice added benefit of having the ability to combine neck and bridge as well as less positions on the switch to worry about. Also, when in middle position (neck and bridge combo, you can blend in the middle with the second tone knob making it all 3 pickups.

So in a way, there are a lot more options for me than a 5 way.

I highly recommend trying it.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Always12AM said:


> I can tell you why I have a 3 way switch in mine:
> 1. The middle pickup on its own to me is useless.
> 2. position 2 and 4 are useless to me without having a blend control.
> 3. Having a neck and bridge combo on a strat (like on a Tele) is so much better than all of the things above mentioned that I could never imagine going back.
> ...


Where the hell were you at 4:30 pst this morning when I ordered my 5 way!

I likes that idea a lot. Nothing stopping me from doing it with a 5 way... but I like that idea.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

A 3nway blade switch costs the same as a 5 way blade. But a 4 way is more expensive. Vintage correct is 3 way, modern is 5 way.


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Mark Brown said:


> When the guitar was built it only had a 3-way. Why? Is this just done to reduce labour and cost because I cannot understand why you would only want 60% of the combinations available for the sake of 2 solders.


In my opinion, in the 50's the Stratocaster was a revolution and surely a three way switch did the job perfectly. Don't forget that at that time we were starting from nothing and everything was to be invented


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

There are lots of stories of the origin of the 5 way, but the first I’d heard was Clapton fiddling with “Brownie” to get that in-between. Which, I think was a 63.

Isn't that right @Always12AM???


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

SWLABR said:


> There are lots of stories of the origin of the 5 way, but the first I’d head was Clapton fiddling with “Brownie” to get that in-between. Which, I think was a 63.
> 
> Isn't that right @Always12AM???


Clapton is the Kraft Dinner of human potential lol.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Oh fak…here we go.

Pavlov’s dog.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I "nashvillized" my Turser Tele by adding a 3rd pickup and a 5-way switch. This is probably the 50th time I've said this here, but if you simply flip the leads of the middle and bridge pickups at the switch, you get the following:
neck
neck+bridge
bridge
bridge+middle
middle

So basically the first 3 positions are standard Tele positions, #4 gets you cluck, and #5 is the one I hardly ever use.

It was my understanding that Ritchie Blackmore lowered the middle pickup on his Strat because he never really used it, and actually removed it and put in a dummy cover, making it a 2-pickup guitar. Does that mean he had a 3-way switch for neck, both, bridge?


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Not that anyone doesn't already know, because you all told me in fact buuuuuut
I just sat down with the old Northern and her 3 way switch and clicked it (it doesn't click, its a 3 way) into Middle/Bridge full quack mode.

So, now I know. It is definitely easier with a switch, I'm not gonna lie.

Thanks for the education once again. This place is great.


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## polyslax (May 15, 2020)

Always12AM said:


> I can tell you why I have a 3 way switch in mine:
> 1. The middle pickup on its own to me is useless.
> 2. position 2 and 4 are useless to me without having a blend control.
> 3. Having a neck and bridge combo on a strat (like on a Tele) is so much better than all of the things above mentioned that I could never imagine going back.
> ...


That does sound pretty versatile.

One of my Strats has what Fender calls their 1/2 blender wiring option. The switch is a standard 5-way, but the second tone knob lets you blend the neck pickup into positions 1 (bridge) and 2 (bridge/middle). Makes for some interesting tonal changes compared with standard wiring.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

polyslax said:


> That does sound pretty versatile.
> 
> One of my Strats has what Fender calls their 1/2 blender wiring option. The switch is a standard 5-way, but the second tone knob lets you blend the neck pickup into positions 1 (bridge) and 2 (bridge/middle). Makes for some interesting tonal changes compared with standard wiring.












it’s nice to have the Jazzmaster middle position sound on a strat. So much so that I don’t miss having an isolated middle pickup or position 2 and 4.

Ideally, I would be able to get rid of the middle pickup and install Jazzmaster pickups on the strat because that would be my favourite.


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Always12AM said:


> I can tell you why I have a 3 way switch in mine:
> 1. The middle pickup on its own to me is useless.
> 2. position 2 and 4 are useless to me without having a blend control.
> 3. Having a neck and bridge combo on a strat (like on a Tele) is so much better than all of the things above mentioned that I could never imagine going back.
> ...


I went similar. 3 way switch on neck/middle, with a blend to bring in the bridge. I tend to play 90% or more on the neck and/or middle, and can blend in a bit of bridge to taste.

The bridge is a humbucker, which is splittable. 

Soooo master volume, blend, master tone w/ push-pull for coil splitting.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I think it really depends on what you do (I know, pretty obvious).

My tendency to prefer simplicity in my guitar wiring stems from having to front shows, singing, playing lead, changing instruments and generally speaking with the audience.

Doing all that while also changing pedal settings means you have a split second to make little changes to your tone when needed. It was just not practical for me to be fiddling with knobs to get subtle variations.

I guess I'm just too dumb for that level of multitasking complexity. I pretty much stick to a pickup switch and a master volume.

If all I was just playing guitar I might have a different opinion.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul M said:


> I went similar. 3 way switch on neck/middle, with a blend to bring in the bridge. I tend to play 90% or more on the neck and/or middle, and can blend in a bit of bridge to taste.
> 
> The bridge is a humbucker, which is splittable.
> 
> Soooo master volume, blend, master tone w/ push-pull for coil splitting.


Probably the most complex wiring I've ever installed, but I understood the reasoning behind it and it was fun to figure out.

Turned out good I think.

Bring it over some time. I'd love to crank it through that Fender Twin (or even the Spark).


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Always12AM said:


> Clapton is the Kraft Dinner of human potential lol.


You never disappoint brother.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

SWLABR said:


> You never disappoint brother.


I still eat KD a couple of times a week (addicted I guess). I listen to Clapton....less often.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Always12AM said:


> View attachment 426502
> 
> 
> it’s nice to have the Jazzmaster middle position sound on a strat. So much so that I don’t miss having an isolated middle pickup or position 2 and 4.
> ...


That's something I've never seen. JM pups on a Strat body. I even just Googled it, and nothing. 

What's stopping you?


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

I think you need to wire up 3 toggle switches, 3 volume pots and 3 tone pots, then report back.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

tomee2 said:


> I think you need to wire up 3 toggle switches, 3 volume pots and 3 tone pots, then report back.


You send me the 11 hole pick guard and I will get right on it. I cannot butcher the 50 year old one I have now, I think that would be sacrilege.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Consider a Freeway switch:


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Paul Running said:


> Consider a Freeway switch:
> View attachment 426539


That's another one of your custom photo shop creations... right Paul??


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I have a S-S-H Telecaster with three toggles and it is a right pain in the keister! (I bought it because it was a good deal, not because I wanted it that way). 

Imagine you have neck and middle for some rhythm cluck, and want to go to the bridge humbucker for a solo. You have to a) turn *off* the neck pickup, b) turn *off* the middle pickup, and c) turn *on* the bridge pickup. Oh, and better make sure the humbucker's toggle is set to full-pickup, and not the coil-cancelled position. This is NOT the definition of "fluidity". It would be _*so*_ much easier and faster with a 5-way and a separate switch for coil-cancelling when you want it.

All of that said, there is a difference between the demands of a gig guitar and a studio/noodling-around guitar. Many of the earliest examples of fancy-schmancy switching systems on guitars were from studio guys who wanted to be able to bring one guitar to the session and get anything and everything. Gigging players, meanwhile, liked it as simple as possible; some even preferring a single pickup, a volume control, and nothing else. Complexity = time, and simplicity = speed.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

mhammer said:


> All of that said, there is a difference between the demands of a gig guitar and a studio/noodling-around guitar. Many of the earliest examples of fancy-schmancy switching systems on guitars were from studio guys who wanted to be able to bring one guitar to the session and get anything and everything. Gigging players, meanwhile, liked it as simple as possible; some even preferring a single pickup, a volume control, and nothing else. Complexity = time, and simplicity = speed.



Sorry for the snip, but this is pretty much what I have tried to say in a previous post.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

mhammer said:


> I have a S-S-H Telecaster with three toggles and it is a right pain in the keister! (I bought it because it was a good deal, not because I wanted it that way).
> 
> Imagine you have neck and middle for some rhythm cluck, and want to go to the bridge humbucker for a solo. You have to a) turn *off* the neck pickup, b) turn *off* the middle pickup, and c) turn *on* the bridge pickup. Oh, and better make sure the humbucker's toggle is set to full-pickup, and not the coil-cancelled position. This is NOT the definition of "fluidity". It would be _*so*_ much easier and faster with a 5-way and a separate switch for coil-cancelling when you want it.
> 
> All of that said, there is a difference between the demands of a gig guitar and a studio/noodling-around guitar. Many of the earliest examples of fancy-schmancy switching systems on guitars were from studio guys who wanted to be able to bring one guitar to the session and get anything and everything. Gigging players, meanwhile, liked it as simple as possible; some even preferring a single pickup, a volume control, and nothing else. Complexity = time, and simplicity = speed.


My next gig isn't scheduled until 2078 so I got all the time in the world. This is all in exploration mode as far as I'm concerned and I bet I still just play 99% of the time on the neck. 

But even with just this thread I have seen a lot of interesting possibilities and am looking forward to maybe finding something else I love.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

tomee2 said:


> I think you need to wire up 3 toggle switches, 3 volume pots and 3 tone pots, then report back.


I hope my sarcasm was obvious!
Ha


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

tomee2 said:


> I hope my sarcasm was obvious!
> Ha


forget that, I already ordered rhe pick guard!


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

SWLABR said:


> That's another one of your custom photo shop creations... right Paul??


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

SWLABR said:


> That's something I've never seen. JM pups on a Strat body. I even just Googled it, and nothing.
> 
> What's stopping you?


I‘d probably order a body specifically for that route. I couldn’t do that to my strat body. I think I’d more likely want to try a JM pickup in a Tele neck position first and Forego the pickguard all together.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

polyslax said:


> That does sound pretty versatile.
> 
> One of my Strats has what Fender calls their 1/2 blender wiring option. The switch is a standard 5-way, but the second tone knob lets you blend the neck pickup into positions 1 (bridge) and 2 (bridge/middle). Makes for some interesting tonal changes compared with standard wiring.


My custom shop tomatillo strat is wired the same.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Always12AM said:


> I‘d probably order a body specifically for that route. I couldn’t do that to my strat body. I think I’d more likely want to try a JM pickup in a Tele neck position first and Forego the pickguard all together.


Hmmmm... I have a metallic blue Strat body I have been looking to do something with....


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Sorry for the snip, but this is pretty much what I have tried to say in a previous post.


Just a confirmation that great minds think alike, bro'. 

I guess the companion question to ask people is "How many _*different*_ sounds do you need your guitar to make?".

Obviously, people will have and use multiple guitars for those instruments' distinct personalities and characteristics. E.g. this one has Filter-trons and a Bigsby while that one has overwound HBs and another is fully hollow with P90s. In those instances, it's not just a different tone, but also a different feel and interaction with amplification. What I'm asking in the question above is how many different kinds of sounds do people want an _*individual*_ guitar to make in order to enable maximum expressiveness (via tonal flexibility) in their playing. Some folks - see Angus Young - are pretty much fine with one pickup and sound, and we love that sound. I mentioned Ritchie Blackmore earlier, who clearly had little need for the many sounds a Strat could produce, even though he liked the form-factor and feel. 

There's things you can wring out of a guitar, just by using your pick, wrist, or both, a little differently. But some of us want the ability to have multiple personalities within a single instrument, via pickups and associated switches (I'll set aside things like the Variax modelling guitars), so that we can use such tonal changes to set a different mood or emotional resonance.

To tie the question and this thread together (no loose ends), the challenge is how one strikes a balance between being able to get all the sounds the guitar is capable of, that you'd like to use on a frequent-enough basis, and the cumbersomeness of whatever switching is required to do that. Personally, I find a 5-way switch an ideal balance between the two, but YMMV.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Just a confirmation that great minds think alike, bro'.
> 
> I guess the companion question to ask people is "How many _*different*_ sounds do you need your guitar to make?".
> 
> ...


I admire the versatility that these various wiring schemes can provide, but guitar is only one element of what some of us do (or did).

Although I no longer gig, my tastes are still impacted by those many years during which I played in clubs or special event shows almost every night.

And as I said, when you're tap dancing on a pedalboard and playing guitar parts (maybe as the only guitarist in the group) while trying to remember the lyrics and sing on pitch, all the while trying to move and shake a little........

Less is more.

Even a five way switch is sometimes a pain. Trying to get to position 2 or 4, I would almost always have to go one past it and then back to it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Even a five way switch is sometimes a pain. Trying to get to position 2 or 4, I would almost always have to go one past it and then back to it.


You make it sound like driving in Vancouver: "Damn, missed the turnoff! Now I have to drive a half-mile more than I wanted to...and I'm running late.".


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

mhammer said:


> You make it sound like driving in Vancouver: "Damn, missed the turnoff! Now I have to drive a half-mile more than I wanted to...and I'm running late.".


No, no, no. That's not how Vancouver works. Now folks would just stop and reverse back to where they needed to be and think your an asshole for not getting out of the way


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

SWLABR said:


> Hmmmm... I have a metallic blue Strat body I have been looking to do something with....


Metallic blue strat with a swimming pool route, single ply black guard, Jazzmaster neck pickup, on axis strat bridge pickup with a steel plate to give it some more bark, 2 witch hat knobs… that would be a very fun project.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

Always12AM said:


> Metallic blue strat with a swimming pool route, single ply black guard, Jazzmaster neck pickup, on axis strat bridge pickup with a steel plate to give it some more bark, 2 witch hat knobs… that would be a very fun project.


Well, I’ve got the body that is currently H/S/H but I can easily route the rest out. 
What are you showing up with?


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

I have just gathered all the parts to put together a Gilmour Black Strat which incorporates a mini toggle switch to give you a 7 way switch. I have Vineham Black Strat pickups on the way. Why am I doing this, because I can!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I got a set of Dippers on the way. 

Had to try a set of Vineham's seeing as there is so much love for them around here. 

The hope is I like them enough to turn around and get a set of Black Strats from him.... or maybe you wont like them and we trade


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

SWLABR said:


> Well, I’ve got the body that is currently H/S/H but I can easily route the rest out.
> What are you showing up with?


I’m a one guitar guy.


SWLABR said:


> Well, I’ve got the body that is currently H/S/H but I can easily route the rest out.
> What are you showing up with?


After a couple of years of only having the Waterloo and the Hardtail Strat, I have finally allowed another guitar to join the ranks. This is a Lake Placid Blue 70th anni esquire. That is now a double Esquire (at least for the remainder of the week). My first Fender made Fender in about 3-4 years. First 7.25 radius and first non V neck / not really at all thick U as they described but a very nice .90-1 inch D taper.


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