# The Hip: amp used on Long Time Running



## Guest (Mar 24, 2013)

That intro guitar, that tremolo, have always sounded utterly unique to me. It's a tremolo I've never been able to capture.

Anyone know what Rob Baker was using on that when they recorded it?

[video=youtube;ZuwobLCaoWE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuwobLCaoWE[/video]


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## Prosonic (Apr 28, 2009)

Sounds like a Leslie.


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

sounds like a 62 brown bandmaster or super with the three tube tremolo


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2013)

parkhead said:


> sounds like a 62 brown bandmaster or super with the three tube tremolo


Yea, I was thinking it was in the Vibro-Champ type ball park but wanted to see if anyone ever came across a comprehensive list of Hip gear they used.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

With all due respect, I don't believe that's brownface vibrato from a larger Fender amp. That brownface sound is more of a pitch modultion effect and I just don't hear it in that song. It certainly doesn't sound like the opto-isolator tremolo from SF/BF amps either so, if I had to guess, I'd say it's from an amp with the "bias modulation" circuit i.e. brown Princeton, Deluxe, Vibrolux, or VibroVerb...or possibly an early Ampeg. I believe they all utilized the power tubes for the effect. At least that's what I'm hearing...


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## noman (Jul 24, 2006)

I read somewhere (long ago) that Rob owned an older (63)Vibroverb so I would tend to lean that way........either way, great tone and playing! I think the Flint pedal from Strymon would get very close........


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

It might indeed actually be a Leslie! That's what tremolo circuits in amps have always been trying to duplicate.

I have modded many Leslies into extension speakers for players. One was rather big and heavy and is now a fixture in a studio but there are smaller and lighter Leslies around that are more easily portable.

Nothing to my ears sounds as fine as a guitar played through an actual Leslie but the 3 tube circuit comes closest, IMHO. After that would come the bias modulation style.

I would rate the opto/neon version dead last!

Of course, that's just me!largetongue

Wild Bill/Busen Amps


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

U could try and source out your question from the" Source"??The Tragically Hip | Facebook


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

Could be using the leslie series with bottom driver /rotor only, 
Not much top end on the guitar track??


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

Funny you posted this, I was just listening to old Hip and thinking about learning this song. We should do a GC Long Time Running cover contest.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## keto (May 23, 2006)

nkjanssen said:


> ........... And I grew up on brownface (that sounds wrong).


Ahh, where's the like button when I need it? lulz.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

keto said:


> Ahh, where's the like button when I need it? lulz.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

There's the Tragically Hip and then there's "Huntsville Hip"? Did say I owed you one.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2013)

mrmatt1972 said:


> Funny you posted this, I was just listening to old Hip and thinking about learning this song. We should do a GC Long Time Running cover contest.


Or just everyone lay down 8 or 16 bars over it and sum it all up in to one by LTR jam?

I'd be down for that...

Anyhow...wow! I go to sleep, wake up and this thread got VERY interesting during that time!

I'm going to do a little more digging, maybe see if Rob or someone with the group will chime in via FB. I'm actually a little surprised that there isn't someone here who's one or two degrees separated from Rob. Seems like we all know someone who knows someone in Canada.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

WCGill said:


> There's the Tragically Hip and then there's "Huntsville Hip"? Did say I owed you one.


Here's the only "Huntsville Hip" 'round these parts , these days!


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

"Vibrato vs Tremolo" may just be a matter of semantics in this case. AFAIK, "bias modulation" (as used on the brown models I mentioned) is actually a _tremolo_ effect, whereas the method used on the larger amps actually changes the pitch....and is therefore _vibrato_. Fender only made things worse by using "Vibro" in naming some of their amps, most of which actually had tremolo. Hence the confusion!

There's an article here, perhaps more for the technically minded, which does differentiate the 2 effects briefly and early on: http://www.300guitars.com/articles/the-ins-and-outs-of-tremolo/


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

You be right.


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## Guest (Mar 26, 2013)

nkjanssen said:


> Yes, tremolo = amplitude modulation and vibrato = pitch modulation, and Leo kind of screwed things up in calling "tremolo" "vibrato" (not to mention people who call a vibrato bridge on a guitar a tremolo). But all that aside, I'm pretty certain that the "big brownface" tremolo doesn't involve any _actual_ pitch modulation like, say, an old Magnatone vibrato does. My understanding is that the "phasy" aspect of the big brownface trem that kind of sounds like pitch modulation is caused by amplitude modulating high and low frequencies separately and then recombining. But there's no actual pitch modulation.
> 
> I'm no technician, though. I just know what I hear. I certainly stand to be corrected.


That's exactly how I understood "big brownface tremolo" to be implemented: there's a crossover that splits the signal in to high content and low content and they're amplitude modulated independently.

The goal being to create something more leslie-like. With the horn and bass rotating independently.

Maybe my ears are getting old, but Long Time Running doesn't really sound like that to me. Does it to you guys?


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

iaresee said:


> That's exactly how I understood "big brownface tremolo" to be implemented: there's a crossover that splits the signal in to high content and low content and they're amplitude modulated independently.
> 
> The goal being to create something more leslie-like. With the horn and bass rotating independently.
> 
> Maybe my ears are getting old, but Long Time Running doesn't really sound like that to me. Does it to you guys?


I already weighed in on this but, doesn't sound like that to me either. Still sounds like bias modulation tremolo to my ears.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

iaresee said:


> That's exactly how I understood "big brownface tremolo" to be implemented: there's a crossover that splits the signal in to high content and low content and they're amplitude modulated independently.
> 
> The goal being to create something more leslie-like. With the horn and bass rotating independently.
> 
> Maybe my ears are getting old, but Long Time Running doesn't really sound like that to me. Does it to you guys?


 Not exactly a crossover.. I'm pretty sure they combined 2 audio feeds, one via the plate resistor and the other from the cathode,which are 180 degress out of phase with each other.


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## ledfloyd (Apr 1, 2011)

The Catalinbread Pareidolia Harmonic Mesmerizer comes very close to this sound.


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## Buzz (May 15, 2008)

Maybe he used a Leslie 125, it sounds like mine. It takes the highs out making it super sweet. With the 125 there's no top horn.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It sure doesn't sound like pitch modulation to me at all, but it does sound like tube bias tremolo. Keep in mind that since tube bias tremolo adds to and subtracts from the bias voltage applied to the output tubes, it is subject to where you set the bias in the first place, and that can, in turn, depend on not only the amp model but the tube brand used. All of which is to say that there may be some hard-to-recapture (but not impossible) variables in there.


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