# temperament and guitar -- sweetening the thirds



## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Haven't noticed that this is a very theory-oriented forum, but here goes:

Over the past 150 years, industrialization and the cult of consistency has caused much of the western world to adopt equal temperament (see Musical temperament) over previous varied temperaments that favoured certain keys to give them pretty major thirds by allowing other keys to sound less pretty and maybe funkier.

I'm pretty sure that Nashville players tune their thirds sweet because the pedal steel always does (that's a central part of its sound) and it sounds better and it's easy enough if you have time to adjust between songs. That's what my ears tell me, anyway.

So… how many of you, for example, tune the B string a wee bit flat for playing in G or A? Or do you adjust some other way?


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I tune my B string down a hair, but nothing like the James Taylor method. This guy shows a good demo of it, and there's a vid on Taylor explaining it as well.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Could be handy to know. Sometimes a guitar just doesn't sound quite right...


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

Harmonic series is an interesting topic. I was getting interested in it a while back when I was looking into micro-tonal instuments, or differently tempered instruments. I came to the conclusion that I was just going to keep playing regular, slightly out of tune, instuments. But I am tempted to order some of these micro frets as shown in the second video. Or perhaps have a bent fret guitar made, but then I couldn't play with anyone. And I would need a different guitar for every key. Slippery slope for sure.










C


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

If you made it through those and are still interested, check this out.




C


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Guitars never sounded right to me, until I heard/saw guitars with these style of frets:





If only they were more widely available, and available in stainless steel.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Leo Kottke tuned by ear all night. He had an electronic tuner that he used once (drastic tuning change, if I recall) and then finished with fine tuning by ear ....... and a Bach joke. The ear should still rule.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I tune all 6 strings to somewhere close. I play baby strings, so I bend them to suit


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Cardamonfrost said:


> If you made it through those and are still interested, check this out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe Gibson will come out with motorized fret pieces gliding in slots...


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

On the other hand, you can let your brain do the adjusting and just appreciate the beauty of the music and the skills of the artist. 

Psychoacoustics - Wikipedia


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

KapnKrunch said:


> On the other hand, you can let your brain do the adjusting and just appreciate the beauty of the music and the skills of the artist.
> Psychoacoustics - Wikipedia


I can only do that when listening to other people play.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

jbealsmusic said:


> I can only do that when listening to other people play.


I know what you mean by that. But as a guy who is able to make my brain believe my own bullshit, I have learned to think that I sound great too.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

At the moment, I'm mostly playing piano. Mine, a Yamaha p255, can be tuned to a variety of unequal tunings including Werkmeister III which I use. You can also change the base tone of the temperament, so it's possible to be pretty much sweetly in tune all the time. Love that feature. Wish I could do it on guitar.

I have learned, though, that if I'm playing in standard tuning and using a slide, the thirds can be sweetened by slanting the slide just a little bit. Makes it sound properly old-timey or Hawaiian.


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

years ago my classical guitar teacher taught me to tune by harmonics with the D string a bit sharp by about one harmonic pulse per 1.5 seconds, G string true to the D string then B and E harmonically true to the low 6th string. 

So, in effect the first and second strings a bit flat compared to the 3rd and 4th strings but true to pitch with the bass strings

I still do that. It sounds great on nylon and steel string acoustic but does not sound good at all on a clean electric especially keys of E and A. For some reason I rarely play electric in key of G now that I think of it. 

still tinkering
j


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