# I want more sustain



## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

What pedal would give me more sustain.. I want more at lower volume, would a compressor/sustainer pedal do this

Rick.


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

Right on the money. Get a compressor pedal and you'll definitely get more sustain out of your guitar. Needless to say you'll have to play around with the controls to get the sound that you want. I'm sure somebody else will chime in with recommendations regarding brands to look at.


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## WEEZY (May 23, 2008)

My favorite compressors:

Guyutone ST2 This will give you tons of sustain, it's currently my favorite one.
Keeley Compressor
Ross Compressor


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

To set the record straight, unless you play loud, compressors will NOT provide more sustain. They will provide the *illusion* of sustain by evening out the level differences between the start of the note you've just picked and its level as it gets closer to dying out. But if the instrument lacks sustain in the first place, no pedal will be able to create what wasn't there. I might also point out that many will attempt to mimic sustain by turning up the squish full tilt. While this may extend the duration of the note, it does so at the expense of the initial attack, and ends up just sounding gutless. 

Having said that, the more you give a compressor to work with, the more successful it will be in creating the illusion. So, you may find that any one or more of the following can assist in that goal:

1) a better or more secure bridge
2) heavier gauge strings
3) a different angle from bridge to tailpiece
4) a different nut and/or saddle material
5) more skill in using finger vibrato
6) weights added to the headstock

That latter one requires some qualification. Groove Tubes, and probably several other companies, sell brass weights that fit flush against the back of the headstock (the Fathead and other devices). These can be useful when the neck and body are fighting against each other for whatever reason (and trust me, it happens), such as a light neck on a heavier body. But there are a great many circumstances where they are of no earthly use whatsoever. A useful initial test to determne whether it might be worth investigating is to play your instrument with the headstock butted up against a door jamb/frame. The door frame will add "borrowed mass" to the neck. If you detect an improvement to the sustain of your instrument (and here it might be worthwhile to record some samples and have them A/B compared by a friend who is blind to the test condition), then adding some mass may help.

You may also want to look into the Fernandes Sustainer system. This is a pickup that acts ON the string, rather than simply detecting it. They retrofit into standard-sized pickup slots.

Finally, adjustments or changes to your pickups can sometimes alter the length of time the string will be sensed. Some pickup heights/adjustments can make a guitar sound like it has less sustain than it actually does. So make sure your instrument is set up optimally.


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

Turn up your amp, you'll get more sustain via sympathetic feedback. Stand close to the amp - you don't want it squeling (unless that's your thing), you just want to be able to pick a note, bend it and hold it for as long as you want.

If your chords are not sustaining, there might be a problem with your guitar. I've never had a guitar that would ring out in less than twenty seconds or so, which is way more than I've ever seen as useful.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Or you can get a Les Paul!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d54UU-fPIsY


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Whether it's sustain or the "illusion of sustain", from the perspective of the listener AND player, you will hear the notes for longer.

With distorted tones, this can often mean the difference between notes dying or having them break into nice harmonic feedback.

A good quality comp like a Keeley is a very musical device when used tastefully.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

One of the many reasons that guitar players use distortion is because invariably it creates the illusion of sustain but clipping. The clipping sets a ceiling on the upper amplitude limits of the signal, wich has the net effect of reducing dynamics. And anything that reduces the dynamics will create the illusion of sustain. As has been mentioned in this thread, however, dynamics-reduction + volume (by standing near the amp) can create sustain by keeping the string vibrating longer than they would normally.

Brief tutorial on how compressors function....

The majority of compressors fall into two categories: *gain reduction* and *input attenuation*. 

The first type defaults to a high gain in the absence of no signal,and then reduces the gain from that point when the input signal increases. As the stompbox input note dies away, the gain is gradually restored to the default amount. Applying more gain to a signal that is dying out creates the impression that the actual signal level is at a fairly constant volume. 

The rate at which the instantaneous gain-reduction (in response to pick attack) recovers will determine the extent to which there appears to be more sustain. Imagine you hired someone to sit by your amp to tweak the preamp gain as you played. That person would sit with their fingers on the knob and turn it down for each note you picked or chord you strummed. If they turned it up again gradually, or only turned it down for the peaks and quickly brought it up again, you would sound different. The original Dynacomp and Ross compressors had the recovery time set fairly long, such that the gain-increase was slow and gradual. A faster recovery time lets you still hear the initial pick attack when notes are picked in rapid succession, while a long recovery time will prevent that max gain from being applied to new notes. You may have seen "attack" controls on some compressors. In the majority of instances, this is actually not an attack time control but rather a recovery time control. They are labelled this way because adjustments to recovery affect the degree to which pick attack can be heard, and because "attack" sounds sexier than "recovery".

I've been an advocate for 3-position toggles for adjusting recovery for a while now (which EHX apparently agrees with me on, if you look at the recent release of the Soul Preacher), simply because small adjustments to recovery time are generally difficult to detect. Some folks want a rotary knob, though, whether it actually does anything usable or not, so that's what you'll see.

Compressors that work by input attenuation have a fixed gain. What gets varied is the attenuation of the signal being fed to the fixed gain stage. In other words, you can stand at the same spot next to the mike and turn the amplifier down, or you can leave the amplifier where it is and stand closer to or further back from the mike. Both will result in output level adjustments. The classic Orange Squeezer is an example of input attenuation in action.

Though there are plenty of exceptions, in general, optical compressors will have a slightly slower attack time, and a longish recovery time. Those that use FETs or OTAs will tend to have a faster response. Opticals can be quieter, though.

Because gain is often at max when you are not playing, if your cable or guitar are prone to noise, that noise will be amplified by the compressor a lot, because it is treating that like soft notes that need to be boosted. As you can imagine, many people regularly complain about compressors being noisy. Its not the compressor; its the input signal.


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

ne1roc said:


> Or you can get a Les Paul!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d54UU-fPIsY


Too true: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18FgnFVm5k0
2:36 to 2:58 and I've seen him do it longer too without it turning into insane feedback. 

One thing to also check if you find the notes are dying to quickly is that your action isn't too low...I put really heavy gauge strings on a strat years ago and it took a couple of days to figure out why it sounded so dead. It needed a better setup and the strings were too close to the frets, as well as the 7.5" radius neck, the notes were dying quite quickly.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*Sustain*

Now i got alot to think about> I don't understand all the tech stuff.. i just want it to work..

I know the louder you go the better the results, and that my problem>> I can't crank it up>.
What i should do is sell my marshall amp and buy a 50 watt with a power break<<
Then i bet i get sustain at low volume.. Guitars not the problem> I have several good ones including a 82 LP custom>

I am playing with distortion>> I just noticed at low volume with i hit the bottom two strings and use the tremolo, I can only get about 4 beats... before its gone>. I need it to carry on to 8 beats.

The song i am working on is Animal ( def Leppard) Its the intro, of that song that started all this .
if anybody is interested in listen to what i am trying to do..


Thanks for all the info< I will read it over a few times so it will sink in.. 

Rick


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

do you have reverb?

better yet, is your guitar set up? do you use thick strings? do you pick hard enough? do you use vibrato?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1) Strat-type tremolo blocks vary in how much they tend to eat sustain. I won't make any recommendations, except to say that some players swear by certain makes, and some companies claim to introduce less sustain degradation by their tremolo-block design. I imagine that the impact a tremolo block has on the sustain will depend on the density of the body as well as things like mass, manner of attachment to the body, etc.

2) There is a big difference between the sustain that comes naturally from a resonant body that permits the string to vibrate longer unassisted, and the sustain that comes from setting the gain high enough to clip. Aim for the first type before resorting to the second.

3) Though many authorities now dispute how strong the effect is, I will simply reiterate that over the years people have cautioned against using pickups with strong magnets in tandem with thinner gauged strings. Imagine you drop a loonie on a granite counter top and watch it wobble to a standstill. Now imagine you stick a piece of cardboard over that counter top and drop the loonie again. The difference in "wobble time" between those two scenarios is akin to what people have proposed happens with stronger magnetic tug fighting the movement of a thin string - the string simply comes to rest sooner (i.e., less sustain).

4) Your frets are like individual bridges. Some folks feel that moving up to a heavier gauge fret can improve sustain and the "meatiness" of the tone a bit.

5) The neck-to-body joint is a vital part of the instrument's sustain capability. The two should never fight each other, but rather complement to act like a single vibrating object. The tightness of that joint can often play a role.


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## sproul07 (Jun 23, 2007)

I agree that it takes all these things to make a guitar sustain properly. You need to play loud to get the best sustain, in my opinion, but if you're looking for a pedal that actually sustains a not then look at the TC Electronics Sustain+Parametric EQ . I picked up this pedal a few months ago and it is by far the best purchase of my life. Its quiet, subtle, but it still holds in notes for you all day long. Mine is vintage though, so Im not sure if the new TCs are as good


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*do you have reverb?*

do you have reverb?

better yet, is your guitar set up? do you use thick strings? do you pick hard enough? do you use vibrato?


I use reverb ( always ) i can't play without some. The guitar was just set up and i use med guage pick,
The guitar has 9-42 ( maybe a bit light) It is also neck through the body design with chamber body and a Floyd rose , pro II tremolo, and a Steve Morse bridge pickup.. 

One thing i could do is go to a heavier gauge string> maybe 11-52, I really like using the 9-42.. for leads u get so use to them>. i use 10-46 on my hollowbody electrics.

I realize if i crank the amp up it will go for days so to speak.. but sometimes when practising at home, you would like to have the volume's lowered but still want the sound like its cranked

The TC Electronics Sustain sounds like it would be a great pedal to have. Maybe i will go down to the local music store and see what they have to try out>> it wont be the same as with my set up, but maybe i can get an idea what will work for me.

Thanks Rick


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Based on what you describe, you seem to have a lot of things already lined up that would assist your strings in vibrating longer. I think the sensible thing is to migrate from 9-42 to a 10-46 set and see where that takes you, making any further decisions from there. In general, more "meat" on the strings keeps 'em moving longer.

As for *which* compressor to consider, it is hard to imagine any of them being distinguishable on the basis of how long they appear to maintain constant volume. That part is actually pretty easy to do so any of them can accomplish it. Where they will differ is in: a) how quietly they accomplish their tasks, b) the range of adjustment they offer, c) the treble response (compression tends to suck the top away unless compensated for).

I have a whack of rack (Alesis, dbx, Ashley) and stomp compressors, including one I made using the SSM2166 chip - a chip intended for the high-end mic strip gang. This thing provides ridiculous squish with little or no loss of treble and tons of output. It also comes equipped with an adjustable downward expander so that the noise you typically hear when you stop playing is totally absent. The chip itself is not cheap, as chips go, but the overall cost for a unit built into a standard small Hammond box, with a decent stompswitch and all bells and whistles is <$30. The ideal compressors will either be optical (photocells do not have any noise or distortion, in comparison to FETs or OTAs) or else use a modern generation gain cell, such as those produced by THAT Corp (e.g., found in the Boss CS-3).


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

hell buy a Tremol-no for that FR bridge and string up your guitar with a 10-46, 10-48, and 10-52 pack (thats what i use) and let me know how that goes.

on the topic of compressors, a UK Gentleman on www.guitarists.net makes handmade compressors that has booted a keeley comp off a board, might want to drop R O Tiree a line and tell him Justin sent you


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Friends don't let friends use Tremel-no's.


10 ~ 46 is a good plan though.


Action that is set to low can really kill sustain.


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## Teleplucker (Feb 5, 2006)

On compressors...I've used a buttload of compressors and nothing, IMO, touches the Diamond, made right here is Canada. It's optical, has a fantastic tone circuit, and is as quiet as anything else on the market (although, perhaps not as quiet as mhammer's unit).


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Friends don't let friends use Tremel-no's.


and why the hell not, if you dont mind my asking?


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