# "Clean, untouched" 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto



## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

Little story taken from GP ,and LPF which moved a lot of air ,

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/in...-paul-burst-at-capsule-music-toronto.1581539/


LPF

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/s...n-Toronto-quot-Untouched-quot-60-burst-listed


----------



## Business (Jul 30, 2013)

Thanks for the link

Even if I have eleventy billions dollars, I'm not paying that kind of money for a piece of wood


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I wonder if I can pop by and ask how much to play it for a few minutes. That way I can officially say I can't tell the difference.


----------



## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

adcandour said:


> I wonder if I can pop by and ask how much to play it for a few minutes. That way I can officially say I can't tell the difference.


Think it was sold to a Canadian Rock Star but the debate is about
the possibility of being fake!


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Louis said:


> Think it was sold to a Canadian Rock Star but the debate is about
> the possibility of being fake!


Yes, I read a few of the posts at TGP. 

I tended to ignore the posts about it being a fake [which would suck - and you would think it would have been inspected by SOMEONE before Capsule took it in or by the "rock star" who decided to buy it (I think more onus on the shop, though)]. 

I just know that I wouldn't be able to differentiate between that guitar and a good reissue (minus the sound of the pups). It looks just the same as any other LP in that colour as well.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Some - though who knows just exactly how much - of the tone of an older instrument made of wood comes from _being played_. I recall a guy I met in Montreal some years ago who had studied classical guitar in Europe with one of the masters. While there, he visited the workshop of a renowned Spanish luthier. The luthier had tried to accelerate the breaking-in process by devising a machine with rubber hands that would rotate and strum the strings of a circle of guitars set up around it. The idea was that you set the guitars up, turn the machine on, close the door, come back in a few days, and it would be like they had been played for years.

Interesting in principle, but the fellow said it was an abject failure. What ought to have been a breakthrough on already good instruments resulted in a tone that had no soul, according to him. It's one of those stories that sticks with you.

So when I see something that appears to have been unplayed for 55 years, I have to wonder what that wood has not been able to learn over that time period.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

It's just another bragging rights guitar for those who don't know what to do with their money.


----------



## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Just for the record, I've talked to a couple of experts about this guitar. There are indeed some inconsistencies with it. It's quite possible that it is indeed a fake.


----------



## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

nonreverb said:


> Just for the record, I've talked to a couple of experts about this guitar. There are indeed some inconsistencies with it. It's quite possible that it is indeed a fake.


Mid it's a Fake , you might see a Rock Star go back to the Store !
and claim is $135,000 back !


----------



## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Hmm....I heard $235K


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I heard it was originally owned by Robert Johnson. He traded it along with his soul. So it was once 'devil-owned'. True (internet) story!


Seriously though, those two threads have been interesting reading this afternoon.


----------



## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

High/Deaf said:


> I heard it was originally owned by Robert Johnson. He traded it along with his soul. So it was once 'devil-owned'. True (internet) story!
> 
> 
> Seriously though, those two threads have been interesting reading this afternoon.


Yes agree !!.......but the cavity is so clean with no overspray 
that it makes you wonder ?


----------



## Disbeat (Jul 30, 2011)

Yea those forums usually seem to deliver with these types of threads.

And I'm a big Les Paul fan, far from an expert on ones of that vintage but I have read up on and seen lots of pictures of different ones and there are some question marks with that one for sure.



High/Deaf said:


> I heard it was originally owned by Robert Johnson. He traded it along with his soul. So it was once 'devil-owned'. True (internet) story!
> 
> 
> Seriously though, those two threads have been interesting reading this afternoon.


----------



## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

Disbeat said:


> Yea those forums usually seem to deliver with these types of threads.
> 
> And I'm a big Les Paul fan, far from an expert on ones of that vintage but I have read up on and seen lots of pictures of different ones and there are some question marks with that one for sure.


Still wonder why the bridge angle is so pronounced compared with others !


----------



## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

Read post 202 for Anomalies from
a Guru advice

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/s...nto-quot-Untouched-quot-60-burst-listed/page6


----------



## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

There's plenty of questionable things with that guitar and I suspect the "buyer" would have his own bevy of scrutineers at the ready before he'd drop a dime on that thing...



Louis said:


> Read post 202 for Anomalies from
> a Guru advice
> 
> http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/s...nto-quot-Untouched-quot-60-burst-listed/page6


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I feel like any good appraisal place would be able to sort it out...?


----------



## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Not necessarily. Some knock-offs are VERY good now. You need experts when dealing with these guitars. Compounded by the sheer $ values involved, you do not want anyone less than expert judging their authenticity.




Budda said:


> I feel like any good appraisal place would be able to sort it out...?


----------



## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

Budda said:


> I feel like any good appraisal place would be able to sort it out...?


Apparently , George Gruhn doesn't sell nor give a professional 
advice anymore unless the guitar has the full history of where it came from
because he has seen some dead on forgeries that would fool everyone!


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

nonreverb said:


> Not necessarily. Some knock-offs are VERY good now. You need experts when dealing with these guitars. Compounded by the sheer $ values involved, you do not want anyone less than _*expert*_ judging their authenticity.


Expert=X is an unknown factor and a spurt is a jerk under pressure.:smile-new:


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Louis said:


> Apparently , George Gruhn doesn't sell nor give a professional
> advice anymore unless the guitar has the full history of where it came from
> because he has seen some dead on forgeries that would fool everyone!


Can't blame him. The guy has a reputation to protect.


----------



## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

The thread on the Les Paul Forum is a pretty interesting read. Certainly casts doubt on the authenticity of this guitar.


----------



## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

Scottone said:


> The thread on the Les Paul Forum is a pretty interesting read. Certainly casts doubt on the authenticity of this guitar.


Yes !,...you're right !!.....more LP knowledge overthere than GP


----------



## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

lets assume that the story is real...
Capsule Music makes it public that they sold a 60's Les Paul for well over 100 thousand dollars. 
Pictures and buyer are known. 

The buyer of this guitar ( also known to some folks) pays over 100 thousand dollars for the Les Paul.

Seems like some folks on forums have the balls to call the guitar a fake.
MAybe Capsule music is in the habit of publicly announcing that they sell 100 thousand dollar fakes.
MAybe the buyer doesn't bother to make sure he isn't buying a 100 thousand dollar fake.
MAybe some folks on forums are blowing smoke out of their asses.

So many questions....

G.


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

Scottone said:


> The thread on the Les Paul Forum is a pretty interesting read. Certainly casts doubt on the authenticity of this guitar.


Yup, I don't see how it could be authenticated now.

The Gruhn thing is like the vintage watch world - nobody will authenticate without having it in hand, and opinions amongst experts don't always agree. Some incredible well done fakes out there, not just the streetcorner Chinese Rolex clone.


----------



## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

Detective Murdoch: George, I'd like you to go down to Capsule Music and bring that '60s Les Paul back to the station house. I'll need to do a few tests on it to test the authenticity.

Constable Crabtree: Uh... Right away sir. By the way did I ever tell you about the time my Aunt Petunia bought me a 1930 Martin....

Murdoch: yes, that'll be all George.

inspector Brackenreid: Bloody 'ell


----------



## toby2 (Dec 2, 2006)

The guitar was on consignment . I am sure Capsule will sort it out


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

mhammer said:


> Some - though who knows just exactly how much - of the tone of an older instrument made of wood comes from _being played_. I recall a guy I met in Montreal some years ago who had studied classical guitar in Europe with one of the masters. While there, he visited the workshop of a renowned Spanish luthier. The luthier had tried to accelerate the breaking-in process by devising a machine with rubber hands that would rotate and strum the strings of a circle of guitars set up around it. The idea was that you set the guitars up, turn the machine on, close the door, come back in a few days, and it would be like they had been played for years. Interesting in principle, but the fellow said it was an abject failure. What ought to have been a breakthrough on already good instruments resulted in a tone that had no soul, according to him. <snip>


Maybe the luthier's execution of the idea was flat. There's a modern equivalent, reviewed here:

http://www.guitarworld.com/node/17705

Some swear by it, some say it makes no difference at all. The latter group including, IIRC, someone who ran a seemingly-scientific experiment with it that could not identify changes to scope-displayed waveforms. Whether or not all characteristics of a guitar's sound can be captured in acoustic waveforms is another debate.

I'm firmly on both sides of the fence, torn between trying one out and trying to play more instead.


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Just in case anyone has decided to skip the links Louis published in his OP, you might want to think again.

Initially I read only a few posts at LPF to get the gist of the subject, but later returned and read all five pages of the thread there. It includes a bit of internet-dick-wagging but worth wading through for comments and insights from some of the most-experienced Les Paul buyers in the world. Quite an education for anyone who may one day be in the market for a used Les Paul - even a non-vintage one.

Thanks Louis!


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

boyscout said:


> Just in case anyone has decided to skip the links Louis published in his OP, you might want to think again.
> 
> Initially I read only a few posts at LPF to get the gist of the subject, but later returned and read all five pages of the thread there. It includes a bit of internet-dick-wagging but worth wading through for comments and insights from some of the most-experienced Les Paul buyers in the world. Quite an education for anyone who may one day be in the market for a used Les Paul - even a non-vintage one.
> 
> Thanks Louis!


Not just LesPauls though - it's an education on how all guitars age and how to determine if they have aged gracefully ......... or with "help".


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

This reminds me of Yamaha's A.R.E. process of artificially "aging" the wood in their instruments. I have only seen this in acoustic instruments.

[video=youtube;_vfD37S3V4Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vfD37S3V4Y[/video]

[video=youtube;994TAPZDhE4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=994TAPZDhE4[/video]


----------



## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*

Interesting!!.......thanks for sharing.

- - - Updated - - -



boyscout said:


> Just in case anyone has decided to skip the links Louis published in his OP, you might want to think again.
> 
> Initially I read only a few posts at LPF to get the gist of the subject, but later returned and read all five pages of the thread there. It includes a bit of internet-dick-wagging but worth wading through for comments and insights from some of the most-experienced Les Paul buyers in the world. Quite an education for anyone who may one day be in the market for a used Les Paul - even a non-vintage one.
> 
> Thanks Louis!


My pleasure !!......thought It would be interesting for all of us !


----------



## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*

i've been watching and reading that LPF thread...thanks for posting btw!

the interesting thing is...i noticed a couple of the things they talked about...and I have never played or seen a burst...but just things i've seen on other guitars, and my own personal guitars...

here's the other note...one that hasn't really been talked about...the pictures came third party...not from ex owner, current owner, or store...who says the photo's haven't been doctored?

LPF has two people posting that they've had friends/or themself in the store, guitar in hand, and it was legit...an 'expert' stated it was legit...they are all commenting on pictures of a guitar that may not even be the right guitar...

anyways...will still watch with baited breath to see the outcome!


----------



## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*



ezcomes said:


> i've been watching and reading that LPF thread...thanks for posting btw!
> 
> the interesting thing is...i noticed a couple of the things they talked about...and I have never played or seen a burst...but just things i've seen on other guitars, and my own personal guitars...
> 
> ...


Wonder how this story will finish !......Happy or Duh !!


----------



## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*

I'm guessing there's too much shit attached to this guitar and will drive buyers away....


----------



## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*



nonreverb said:


> I'm guessing there's too much shit attached to this guitar and will drive buyers away....


But i think they sold it allready to a known musician in Canada so if he reads this , he will freak out !!


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*



ezcomes said:


> i've been watching and reading that LPF thread...thanks for posting btw!
> 
> the interesting thing is...i noticed a couple of the things they talked about...and I have never played or seen a burst...but just things i've seen on other guitars, and my own personal guitars...
> 
> ...


pictures including back of the headstock with the serial number being discussed were posted. I think it's clear the right guitar's pics have been posted.


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*



ezcomes said:


> <snip> the pictures came third party...not from ex owner, current owner, or store...who says the photo's haven't been doctored? LPF has two people posting that they've had friends/or themself in the store, guitar in hand, and it was legit...an 'expert' stated it was legit...they are all commenting on pictures of a guitar that may not even be the right guitar...



I dunno ezcomes. I guess there's a CHANCE that a handful of the most-knowledgeable Les Paul dealers/collectors in the world would collaborate together to publicly (and under their own names) nuke the reputation of a guitar that's actually genuine. Maybe they're all conspiring to drive down its price so they can buy it together?! Maybe they're upset that a Canadian dealer had it?!


No, I take it back, there's ZERO chance of that. One of them, quietly, under subterfuge, maybe. A half dozen of them, competitors with each other, publicly? No chance.


Doctored pictures? Most of the published pictures came from the dealer, Capsule Music. They were published by well-known people - under their own well-known forum accounts - who were would-be buyers of the guitar and received the pictures from Capsule after they expressed interest in buying it. The notion that these very well-known people would doctor any of those photos seems preposterous to me.


Additional pictures and comments were published by two people who saw the guitar "in person". To them you accord relatively too much respect IMO. One is a writer who admitted to virtually no experience with vintage bursts (and then pronounced this one was one of the best he'd ever seen!) The other is a Capsule customer who admitted to even less experience with bursts. Not saying that these people should be DIS-respected, but their opinions cannot reasonably be accorded anything LIKE the same weight as those of other well-known commentators who have nuked the guitar.


Based on their opinions - not mine - it is certain that the guitar is a fake, probably a scratch-made one, not Gibson at all. There's not much left to the story but the fallout for Capsule (probably duped but has reputation damage anyway), the buyer, and the guitar.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*

Yea, if I had to choose between:
1) a conspiracy by some high-profile collectors (some of them literally wrote the books)
2) a fake guitar the price of a house (OK, maybe only 1/3 of a house out here) 

I'm going with 2) all day long. 

Not very hard to find the motive for 2). Much harder to find a motive for 1) considering some of the reputations involved.


----------



## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*



High/Deaf said:


> Yea, if I had to choose between:
> 1) a conspiracy by some high-profile collectors (some of them literally wrote the books)
> 2) a fake guitar the price of a house (OK, maybe only 1/3 of a house out here)
> 
> ...


So much faith on very high profile collectors who have never been in the same room let alone touch the guitar in question...
Makes me wonder just how much reputation one has that can make a call based on that criteria...

G.


----------



## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*

I talked to two people who've actually owned real bursts about this guitar. Both brought up the same inconsistencies. Some are reasonably obvious. One is the fact that the colour is totally wrong based on the serial number. Neither of these guys have anything to lose as if it were legit, they might be upping the ante on it.

There's a clear demarcation point in the '60 production where the red pigment changes across the production line to a very distinct red that is known as tomato soup. This guitar does not have that finish. So based on the late serial number which it apparently has, it cannot be real....That at the very least, would make it a refin. There are other discrepancies with it as well. Both mentioned the inlays being funky as well. 

All to say, I don't think there's any self interest regarding the ones in the know but rather a warning to prospective buyers. Remember....a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Especially if you're about to throw away a 1/4 million.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*



GTmaker said:


> So much faith on very high profile collectors who have never been in the same room let alone touch the guitar in question...
> Makes me wonder just how much reputation one has that can make a call based on that criteria...
> 
> G.


You wanna put faith in the 3 completely self-admitted non-experts that did touch the guitar? Or the anonymous authenticator? Do you consider the current staff at Capsule to be more up on bursts than the guys who wrote the books? Maybe all those usernames at LPF are fake (wouldn't the real Joe B get pissy and sue maybe?).

Or is it that the pics of the real 0 7012 have been swapped with pics of a fake for the experts to look at? To what end? Why would anyone want to hide the authenticity of this guitar? Makes no sense to me.

Even if they haven't touched it, I'm going with people who've owned, dealt and publicly defrauded these things for 40+ years over a scribe for La Presse. YMMV. The experts/owners have an agenda in not allowing more 'bursts into the registry (although I doubt there would ever be enough of them to swamp the market and devalue their guitars - Gibson admits to only making ~1500 between '58 and '60). Just way to many anomalies with this one to pass muster based on 'a well known blah blah told me it was a real one.'


----------



## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*

Just simple question..
Can you please give me a name of any official authenticator that will give me a professional letter of authenticity 
on any guitar based on a photo that I can send thru email.

When you give me that name, I will gladly email them and ask for that service.

Patiently waiting for your reply.

G.




High/Deaf said:


> You wanna put faith in the 3 completely self-admitted non-experts that did touch the guitar? Or the anonymous authenticator? Do you consider the current staff at Capsule to be more up on bursts than the guys who wrote the books? Maybe all those usernames at LPF are fake (wouldn't the real Joe B get pissy and sue maybe?).
> 
> Or is it that the pics of the real 0 7012 have been swapped with pics of a fake for the experts to look at? To what end? Why would anyone want to hide the authenticity of this guitar? Makes no sense to me.
> 
> Even if they haven't touched it, I'm going with people who've owned, dealt and publicly defrauded these things for 40+ years over a scribe for La Presse. YMMV. The experts/owners have an agenda in not allowing more 'bursts into the registry (although I doubt there would ever be enough of them to swamp the market and devalue their guitars - Gibson admits to only making ~1500 between '58 and '60). Just way to many anomalies with this one to pass muster based on 'a well known blah blah told me it was a real one.'


----------



## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*

Anyone hear who bought it? Maybe it was Chad Kroeger (hee hee)...


----------



## Louis (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*



gtone said:


> Anyone hear who bought it? Maybe it was Chad Kroeger (hee hee)...


Posted today on GP ,

Rumor I heard yesterday (not saying it is correct) 
was that the purchaser was a certain well known bassist 
for a famous Canadian power trio ...


----------



## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*



Louis said:


> Posted today on GP ,
> 
> Rumor I heard yesterday (not saying it is correct)
> was that the purchaser was a certain well known bassist
> for a famous Canadian power trio ...


Oh now, let's not "Rush" to any hasty conclusions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*

I actually heard it was the guitarsist....however it apparently not a done deal yet.


----------



## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*

Oh, I would think this deal is "done".


----------



## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Shame on Capsule for making anything about this private purchase public. The internet speculation over this guitar is out of hand. If the deal is not done and falls through, or if a lawsuit comes of it, then it is certainly deserving. Consider how "tight lipped" Christie's was relating to buyers relating to the recent Picasso sale... Capsule needs to take a cue from that sale. It seems however that Capsule is trying to bolster their credibility with this sale, but it is going VERY wrong!


----------



## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*



Louis said:


> Posted today on GP ,
> 
> Rumor I heard yesterday (not saying it is correct)
> was that the purchaser was a certain well known bassist
> for a famous Canadian power trio ...


one of the comments on the LesPaulForum was that the person who knew who bought it, said that the purchaser was a member on the LPF...would Geddy really be a member over there?


----------



## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*



ezcomes said:


> one of the comments on the LesPaulForum was that the person who knew who bought it, said that the purchaser was a member on the LPF...would Geddy really be a member over there?


Why wouldn't he be? Especially if he's interested in collecting LP's. There are other famous musicians posting there, so I wouldn't rule him out.


----------



## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*

90% of forum inhabitants hide behind alias user-names, so who really knows who's on a particular forum and who isn't.


----------



## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*



nonreverb said:


> I actually heard it was the guitarsist..


Heard the same thing (probably from some of the same people).


----------



## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


----------



## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

From my understanding of events, Capsule Music didn't leak the story, rather they appeared to be shopping the guitar around to a few high profile potential buyers. IIRC, one LPF member was one of those potential buyers and was given some detailed pics including gut shots, etc for his due diligence. He subsequently posted them on LPF when he got suspicious and a few other posters were already speculating on the guitar's authenticity and the crap seemingly rolled downhill from there.


----------



## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

YJMUJRSRV said:


> I am willing to bet 99.9% of the experts in that forum have never owned a burst in their life.


You're pretty much correct but it's probably more like 99.8%. That means 2 out of every 1000 members there have owned a burst in their life. Since their membership is in the tens of thousands, that means likely dozens of members there own(ed) bursts. Some of them quite literally "wrote the book" on bursts.

At this point, your statement of "if it's not fake..." is pointless. It IS fake and one doesn't need to have played a real burst to know that. I've never given Bruce Jenner a reach around, but I can tell you he's not really a she.


----------



## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


----------



## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Every time one of these surfaces, this happens. It's no different than when a Faberge egg comes up for auction....actually, I take it back, musicians are bigger wankers than anyone else on the planet. That being said, they are very expensive and some people will always find ways of parting fools from their money with counterfeit items be it Patek, Rolex watches or guitars. The takeaway is *Caveat Emptor.*


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

the most amazing thing to me is that, many posters seem to think $137,000 is a bargain price for a 1960 LP.


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

YJMUJRSRV said:


> You are the first and only to state the obvious. Why is a high profile sale of a high priced object made public with pictures and serial number? To one of the worst forums there is. I am willing to bet 99.9% of the experts in that forum have never owned a burst in their life. They collect pictures and talk about it all day, every day ... doesnt make them experts. No matter what I would think any deal on that guitar is off. Could very well be a lawsuit as if it is not a fake - its considered one now.


Several of the people who contributed to the LPF thread on this guitar are some of the most respected collectors and dealers in the world and have owned or do own multiple bursts. With their input it's clear there is *NO* chance that it's genuine - why are a few people here unable to accept that?!

Some are making much of the fact that we have photos instead of the guitar. Why would ANYONE believe that a group of these collectors/dealers - competitors with each other - would collaborate to swap or doctor photos of the guitar to denigrate it? It's preposterous!

If the photos are of the subject guitar (and of COURSE they are!) the photos show problems that even I could have spotted. Where is it written that experts can't comment in a forum based on clear photographs provided to them by the dealer of the guitar?

Who are YOU and how many bursts have you seen/authenticated?!


----------



## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

I have no money, but even if I did, I would rather have a perfectly executed replica of the vintage guitar, than the old guitar which may or may not be a fake or a counterfeit. Honestly, the crooks have gotten so good, that no one, not even George Gruhn can be certain anymore. In my humble opinion, of course!

If money were no object, I would take a Gil Yaron over anything that Gibson currently produces:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-depot/194271-1959-les-paul-build.html


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

boyscout said:


> Several of the people who contributed to the LPF thread on this guitar are some of the most respected collectors and dealers in the world and have owned or do own multiple bursts. With their input it's clear there is *NO* chance that it's genuine - why are a few people here unable to accept that?!
> 
> Some are making much of the fact that we have photos instead of the guitar. Why would ANYONE believe that a group of these collectors/dealers - competitors with each other - would collaborate to swap or doctor photos of the guitar to denigrate it? It's preposterous!
> 
> ...


+1

Someone was insinuating earlier that the posters on LPF were authenticating it with photos. Silly comment, as they were only commenting on what they saw in pics provide by the store. But the pics were proof that the actual authenticator failed - I assume he used more than pics to authenticate it. 

And if you don't consider some of the poster in that thread as experts, who then would you consider? In academia, publishing is consider one of the marks of expertise (you put it out there and let everyone take a run at it). Black holes - talk to Stephen Hawking or Brian Greene. I wouldn't go to them for burst authentication, much as I wouldn't go to TW or VD for black hole explanations.


----------



## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> +1
> Someone was insinuating earlier that the posters on LPF were authenticating it with photos. Silly comment, as they were only commenting on what they saw in pics provide by the store. But the pics were proof that the actual authenticator failed - I assume he used more than pics to authenticate it.


Ok...I'm a bit confused as usual...
Were the posters on LPF *only commenting on what they saw in pics provide by the store *and therefor their comments should be taken for what they were and with a large grain of salt *
OR
*Did they make a supposed professional call that *pics were proof that the actual authenticator failed.?

*I don't think you can have it both ways...

G.


----------



## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

One of the first things I am aware of in all of the older guitars and amps I have been in contact with, that familiar vintage aroma, very hard to fake.


----------



## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

I have respect and admiration, not envy, for those who have the financial means, and the expertise to collect vintage guitars. The big thing I have learned from my reading on this subject, and believe me, I have done tons of it, is that many collections
contain at least one fake or counterfeit. In fact, many of the vintage guitar dealers inventories contain at least a few fakes. The unspoken question that arises, is whether the apparent degree of counterfeiting now going on would be possible, without the dealers and expert appraisers being aware of the problem.


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

GTmaker said:


> Ok...I'm a bit confused as usual...
> Were the posters on LPF *only commenting on what they saw in pics provide by the store *and therefor their comments should be taken for what they were and with a large grain of salt *
> OR
> *Did they make a supposed professional call that *pics were proof that the actual authenticator failed.?
> ...


G, I don't understand what you're saying here. There were pics provided both by the store and by the guy writing the article who happened by as the deal was being done and took a few snaps. So, 2 sources. But the people commenting on the pics are a bunch of THE burst experts in the world, all owners past and present of multiple examples (as well as a few dozen not-as-expert folks). The pictures are good enough to show what the guitar is and isn't, even *I* can see that....did you see the list of problems/issues that was posted? It's long and they're obvious even to the untrained eye once pointed out.

I don't know if 'the actual authenticator' has been named, or even if there was said to be one....other than the Capsule store staff.


----------



## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

The sad part, and it's pointed out on the LPF, this whole thing that's gone down amounts to giving counterfeiters out there a better "playbook" of how to build a great fake, one that could fool many experts. Even George Gruhn himself is now refusing to do evaluations of authenticity without having the instrument in hand apparently. If true, that speaks volumes on how sophisticated the "fugazi" builds have become.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

worth nothing that I saw Joe B post about this on facebook a few days ago.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Budda said:


> worth nothing that I saw Joe B post about this on facebook a few days ago.


what did he say?

Hopefully Capsule can track down Dick Gozinya or whomever they bought the guitar from and get their money back.


----------



## toby2 (Dec 2, 2006)

A local tried to do a scratch and sniff test on the guitar . Test was blown when someone farted in his general direction


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

No one should be surprised that this could be a fake. They do it with million dollar painting, money, antiques and many other things worth far more than guitars and easily get away with it. Many of the other faked items are much harder to imitate than guitars. If I was a collector and could not guarantee every step the guitar has taken since it left the factory, I would pass on it these days. 

I hope the guy didn't get ripped off but I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the guitar he thinks it is.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I have a feeling that this thread is never going to end.....


----------



## notjoeaverage (Oct 6, 2008)

From what I understand from what I've read Capsule never purchased or owned the guitar, it was on consignment, so they are not out a cent. They may take a hit for a few months for not doing more to make sure it wasn't a fake.


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Budda said:


> worth nothing that I saw Joe B post about this on facebook a few days ago.





Diablo said:


> what did he say? <snip>


Joe Bonamassa is one of the participants in the LPF thread. IIRC, like a couple of other well-known participants he did not shriek "It's a fake!" but indicated more-subtly that close inspection of the guitar was in order. See thread for his actual words.


----------



## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

YJMUJRSRV said:


> As the monkey above has expressed - this one is dragging on with nothing added.
> 
> People, at the end of the Day you have a guitar, a reputable shop and a celebrity. Do you really think they need the internets help?
> 
> If the buyer is who people say he is, I bet he can call anyone he wants to. A room full of internet trolls examining pictures has done nothing but stir up a storm of wild speculation for their own entertainment. Meanwhile rockstar A and in hand inspectors B C and D probably long ago came to real conclusions, and it seems that was to pass on the object in question.


Ahhh but that's what makes this story so interesting. These internet trolls you speak of, may have more insight than the rock star and the reputable shop.
the thing about this is, rock star or not, there is no certified authority for this sort of thing. Even Henry J himself cant ID vintage fakes with absolute authority. It's always going to be a matter of educated opinions. That's what makes this time so great. It's building on collective knowledge.


----------



## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

boyscout said:


> Joe Bonamassa is one of the participants in the LPF thread. IIRC, like a couple of other well-known participants he did not shriek "It's a fake!" but indicated more-subtly that close inspection of the guitar was in order. See thread for his actual words.



he did say it wasn't right, and it was a fake...its just buried in all the rest of the thread...he also talked to the store himself and the potential owner, according to a post last night...


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

IMO, even if it were real, the guitar in question looks like ass compared to this one.
go big or go home.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-Gibson...235?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d2cc07163


----------



## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I'm not hoodwinked, I just know what I think looks good.
im not in the market for any of these, I think the old wood craze is nonsense.
The big difference is, the repair was done by Gibson in the 60's. Not some dude in his basement. These buyers don't mind a certain amount of "character" not just case queens. If they've got the provenance for the repair from Gibson, that adds to the history. It's a crazy market. If someone said the headstock was broken by Pete Townshend the price would double! The normal rules don't always apply with vintage collectors.

when it comes to bursts,it's all about the flame, which the eBay guitar hits the mark on. Otherwise buy yourself a GT for a tenth the cost. That's my point.


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

YJMUJRSRV said:


> Its interesting the same people who were piling on the other one are selling this one ... and this one has a repair of full veneer over the original serial so they stamped a new one in. Whole neck is an entire different color than the body too. No questions about that though. The old boys club has you hoodwinked. Do you wash their shorts too?


What a steaming pile that is! I'll bet I'm not the only person here starting to wonder what oar YOU have in this water. You're certainly paddling against the current... maybe that's your only real purpose? Are you just trolling?

Or maybe you actually know something we don't - you're pretending to know a lot. Why not give us the names of the persons who were "piling onto" the faked burst we've been talking about, and tell us which of them (plural) are collaborating together under the eBay user account garysclssc3nws to sell another entirely unrelated burst.

(For clarity, eBay says that user garysclssc3nws has 525 completed transactions and that "_garysclssc3nws_ has been an eBay member since Jan-24-98 and has 100% positive feedback._"_)

I'd be *VERY* interested in seeing you share the specific information that you've declared above that you know. I'll bet the lawyers of some of the people you've smeared would be even more interested than I am.


----------



## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*

gone fishing


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

*Re: &quot;Clean, untouched&quot; 1960 Les Paul 'Burst at Capsule Music, Toronto*



YJMUJRSRV said:


> No ... you have no idea when that repair was done. Its just a story. Yet you are here promoting it. Funny how you guys from the les paul forum slam one thing then promo your junk here. Your story is to be trusted but other people - they are just scams!
> 
> This demonstrates what the internet expert chatroom is all about. Old boys club that attack one minute and then have something to sell you the next. No matter how questionable, its approved see, by them. So pull out your wallet and go big or go home as Diablo put it. What a bunch of frauds.


Lol...I'm not promoting anything. I don't think a single member on this site would buy it and why would I care? Do I get a referral fee? I did an eBay search and that guitar came up. nothing more. I don't own any guitars worth more than $2k and I haven't sold one in years. No stake in this game. Just a member commenting, on a topic.
How would you know if I'm a member on LPF? "My junk"?? Old boys club?? Hahahaha
youre nuts. Go crawl back into the troll cave from which you came.
i agree with Boyscout, assuming you aren't actually crazy for getting so worked up in here, the more you post,the more it seems you may have some skin in the game with the guitar in the OP.


----------



## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


----------



## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

YJMUJRSRV said:


> Now this is rich. You guys take any conversation into the liardome with a bullet. Mods - nuke these people. Their intent is obvious.


 This is great and I have to hand it to you, you’re getting better at it...

First you set up some concoction, a "conspiracy amongst internet experts" at LPF, who you in your infinite wisdom dismiss as trolls. Anyone who responds here with anything other than approval of your comments gets the obligatory, what’s wrong you mad? why so upset? etc etc.

Then, you expect everyone to understand that in light of your obvious bottomless pit of knowledge, we should just take your word for this conspiracy and never mind that you present zero to back it up.

Grasping at straws you then spread more bullshit on it by pointing out that a guitar with provenance and a documented factory repair is suspect because it’s being sold by one of the dozens of “experts” who found the Capsule replica in the first place…

Now achieving your ultimate goal, you have people defending themselves as though you’re some kind of “internet expert” yourself.

That, in my estimation is the purest form of internet trolling we’re likely to see for some time, which of course ends with your cries to nuke yet another thread that went south on you.

EDIT - Welcome Back


----------



## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


----------



## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

YJMUJRSRV said:


> ATTACK ATTACK! here come the bombers .... like clockwork


Better check your clock and set it right, it's page five.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

YJMUJRSRV said:


> ATTACK ATTACK! here come the men with straight jackets ... like clockwork


Fixed 

for the record, you aren't being attacked, any more than you have attacked others with absurd accusations and condescending tone.


----------



## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

YJMUJRSRV said:


> funny - you all were calling something and a store a fraud .. then had a 200k "issues" burst to sell on Ebay using the line "go big or go home"
> 
> Once called out your 2 buddys came is fast and swift.
> 
> and I'm the Bad guy. No problem. Have a nice circle jerk.


What the hell?

I'm a LPF member, though I haven't posted there in years. Am I part of the conspiracy too if I think the Capsule guitar is a fake?


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Finally some excitement around here


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)




----------



## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

It's pretty obvious that the guitar in question has far too many questions unanswered for potential buyers to comfortable with it being legit.....flaming or no flaming.
Again, caveat emptor....


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Finally some excitement around here


Funny guy.:smiley-faces-75:


----------



## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Finally some excitement around here


WHAT! ...You no longer find impedance matching questions/threads exciting??!!.

Cheers

Dave


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Dave, your signature makes your post 10x better at least!


----------



## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

I have a mediocre sense of humor, but you guys have got me laughing out loud! On a serious note, I think it is a valid point that there are few "experts" who could detect many of the fakes that are now circulating.


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

YJMUJRSRV said:


> Did I say that?
> 
> I said you and probably 100 other guys are blind mice who have no clue what you are talking about and raking people thru the coals based on no actual personal knowledge. Meanwhile the same pipers are selling "bursts" with even more ridiculous "repairs" and the blind mice support that. So I come to my personal conclusion that forum trolls on site A are worshiped like gods. Putting them in a position to harm whatever small Canadian dealer they want while hawking shitty goods. All cuz they said so and the general populace is to lazy to do their own homework. Thats what I said. I'll top it off with 99.999% of the other forum and this one has no idea how to authenticate anything in hand let alone from photos.
> 
> I will ammend and end with this. When your last mom and pop shop finally closes leaving you nowhere but the internet. You can blame that on yourselves for not supporting them over the internet experts whom who trust religiously.


so then the LPF guys are wrong about the Capsule guitar?? I couldn't authenticate one in hand, but the 'flaws' pointed out are pretty convincing...not just from that one thread, but taken in addition with a dozen years of reading, at the LPF but also many other sources. You seem to be taking a contrary position without having the guts to come out and say it.

The repaired unit on eBay, you're putting a lot of weight on that one issue....nobody here defended it, just pointed out it was a nice looking top. The seller is a well respected vintage dealer for a long long time, not a LPF member as far as I know.

lastly, what the hell does a six figure valued guitar have to do with yer average mom n pop?


----------



## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

all I ever said was the eBay burst looks better/ more like what a 6-figure burst should look like. 
Then you went nuts, calling for bans, insults etc, like a 13-yr old moron.

What I can't understand is why someone with so much vitriol for the folks at LPF, MLP etc is venting it over here where the conversation has been pretty tame, and more observational?
youre obviously a builder with a lot of knowledge on these things, why not enter the discussion directly with those you disagree with?
smells like coward in here...or someone who tried to get a 6 figure payday on a consignment guitar that went sour.


----------



## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Sometimes guitarists can be real fvckin' twats.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

i luvz me da interwebz. 

Where anonymous people from imaginary places can take on real people with real histories and real reputations and expect to be taken seriously. But I guess if Nigerian princes can get rich, why not 'guitar experts'.

The next time I've got a burst for authentication, to hell with those know-it-alls from the 70s, 80s, 90s! I'm hopping in my car and driving to Yngwie, ON and getting it done right. _Rrrriiiiiggggghhhhhttttt...._.


----------



## eric_b (Dec 6, 2008)

adcandour said:


> Sometimes guitarists can be real fvckin' twats.





High/Deaf said:


> i luvz me da interwebz.
> 
> Where anonymous people from imaginary places can take on real people with real histories and real reputations and expect to be taken seriously. But I guess if Nigerian princes can get rich, why not 'guitar experts'.
> 
> The next time I've got a burst for authentication, to hell with those know-it-alls from the 70s, 80s, 90s! I'm hopping in my car and driving to Yngwie, ON and getting it done right. _Rrrriiiiiggggghhhhhttttt...._.


Amen brothers, amen.

4. 5, 6, 7, 8


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Be reasonable; accept my views and do things my way. Then, we'll all get along perfectly!:smiley-faces-75:


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

YJMUJRSRV said:


> Here we go with wild speculation again and attacks. Keto asked intelligent questions so I answered. *You are just a dick*.


Possibly. But maybe it just looks that way because you are such an easy to get along with, un-opinionated, rational, respectful sort of guy, with many, many friends.


----------



## J-75 (Jul 29, 2010)

Stepping back a few paces, in a more general aspect, what factor(s) decide the value of a '60 LP? Is it valuable simply because it still exists?
If so, what would a '60 Kay be worth, by comparison?

Don't tell me it has unique value because it's a LP. How about a '56 strat, '51-4 Tele, Broadcaster, etc. The only things these have in common is scarce survival, justifying high perceived value. They surely don't all share some special tonality, or mojo mumbo-jumbo. Heck, some early models didn't even have truss rods. Would you buy a brand new electric guitar without a truss rod if they made one?

Gibson and Fender keep afloat by reinventing their models, yet the earliest ones still command the high price.
They're different companies. What do they share that makes their products equally valuable with age?

Compare this phenomenon with say, the television manufacturing industry.

Does anybody get my point?


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

J-75 said:


> Stepping back a few paces, in a more general aspect, what factor(s) decide the value of a '60 LP? Is it valuable simply because it still exists?
> If so, what would a '60 Kay be worth, by comparison?
> 
> Don't tell me it has unique value because it's a LP. How about a '56 strat, '51-4 Tele, Broadcaster, etc. The only things these have in common is scarce survival, justifying high perceived value. They surely don't all share some special tonality, or mojo mumbo-jumbo. Heck, some early models didn't even have truss rods. Would you buy a brand new electric guitar without a truss rod if they made one?
> ...


-Gibson made the sunburst Les Paul only 1958-1960 then ceased production of that body shape until 1968 or 1969, I forget (and no sunbursts until what, 1971-72 with Deluxes?). 
-it wasn't popular at the time, something like under 2000 total production for the 3 years
-Strats and Teles were meanwhile steadily produced, by the thousands
-and are modular, so if something breaks just get another (neck, body) and screw them together. Obviously if a Les Paul breaks, you are in for some time consuming and likely expensive repairs.
-all leading to supply and demand type discussion, there are many fewer Les Paul '58-'60 sunbursts than just about any style of Strat or Tele, it's been known in the marketplace for many years and thus the price discrepancy
-there's more to it than that, that's my quick and dirty version of PART OF the story.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

J-75 said:


> Stepping back a few paces, in a more general aspect, what factor(s) decide the value of a '60 LP? Is it valuable simply because it still exists?
> If so, what would a '60 Kay be worth, by comparison?
> 
> Don't tell me it has unique value because it's a LP. How about a '56 strat, '51-4 Tele, Broadcaster, etc. The only things these have in common is scarce survival, justifying high perceived value. They surely don't all share some special tonality, or mojo mumbo-jumbo. Heck, some early models didn't even have truss rods. Would you buy a brand new electric guitar without a truss rod if they made one?
> ...


Totally get your point.
I was thinking about a member here who had 2 beautiful gretsches from the same era in case queen condition including original receipts, yet they took a long time to sell at even 3-4k. If they were Lp's, he could have bought a house after he sold them, lol.

I think its simply demand, because its not even unique to Gibson. LP Juniors, Goldtops etc from the 50's don't command nearly the same prices.
59-60 LP's seem to have the point where some of the more desirable features (bridges, pups etc) just came together.
And of course, some pretty great players notably played them at the time...Jimmy, Eric, etc.
Add in low production numbers, and of course, 59-60 was when Gibson sprinkled the most magic fairy dust on them as well.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Diablo said:


> .....59-60 was when Gibson sprinkled the most magic fairy dust on them as well.


So the frikken fairies and their dust carry a big part of the blame for this mess!! Very sad that the good old tooth fairies lost a significant part of this "dust" action. Oh well.


----------



## J-75 (Jul 29, 2010)

keto said:


> -Gibson made the sunburst Les Paul only 1958-1960 then ceased production of that body shape until 1968 or 1969, I forget (and no sunbursts until what, 1971-72 with Deluxes?).
> -it wasn't popular at the time, something like under 2000 total production for the 3 years
> .


Sharing a similar provenance, the Edsel should now be worth a million bucks (I saw one for sale last year for 4 grand obo).

I remember when the SG was introduced (as "the LP") in (then) L&M's only store.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Diablo said:


> 59-60 was when Gibson sprinkled the most magic fairy dust on them as well.


So that's what makes people want them so badly. Someone should tell them that fairies don't exist.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I know a guy with a 59' Burst. I've only ever seen a few pictures of it though. First time I met him he proudly announced his collection and me in my ignorance did not coo appropriately - it wasn't until I got home and looked up "59' Burst" that I became aware of their rarity and value.

But I'm more of a player, and I'm happy to just have quality instruments that I'm not afraid to play.


----------



## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Call me crazy but the biggest reason is due to rock star association. Jimmy Page, Duane Allman, Eric Clapton etc etc etc etc....compound that with the previously stated fact that they were only produced for 2 1/2 years and the herd mentality takes over....



Steadfastly said:


> So that's what makes people want them so badly. Someone should tell them that fairies don't exist.


----------



## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

YJMUJRSRV said:


> To destroy all burst sales not offered by them.


That's a very interesting, relevant, and original point in this whole discussion.

Capsule certainly didn't handle this sale well and have themselves to blame for initiating the outcome, and they certainly have tarnished their own reputation whether the guitar is a fake or not.

However, other "industry experts" either incidentally or opportunistically chimed in and in course have bolstered Capsule's position as burst non-experts, maybe even vintage non-experts if they can't authenticate.

It's one thing for us guitar knuckleheads to go at it on guitar forums with wild rhetoric, but professional courtesy within the "industry" is warranted if they are not involved in the transaction. With all the stone throwing, they will surely destroy their own industry.

Looking forward, it is likely that any Canadian burst seller/buyer aware of this fiasco would go to the U.S. to do the deal, so the Canadian industry took a hit.


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

dradlin said:


> That's a very interesting, relevant, and original point in this whole discussion.
> 
> Capsule certainly didn't handle this sale well and have themselves to blame for initiating the outcome, and they certainly have tarnished their own reputation whether the guitar is a fake or not.
> 
> ...


Logical and most likely the case


----------



## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

YJMUJRSRV said:


> To destroy all burst sales not offered by them.





dradlin said:


> That's a very interesting, relevant, and original point in this whole discussion
> Capsule certainly didn't handle this sale well and have themselves to blame for initiating the outcome, and they certainly have tarnished their own reputation whether the guitar is a fake or not.
> However, other "industry experts" either incidentally or opportunistically chimed in and in course have bolstered Capsule's position as burst non-experts, maybe even vintage non-experts if they can't authenticate.
> It's one thing for us guitar knuckleheads to go at it on guitar forums with wild rhetoric, but professional courtesy within the "industry" is warranted if they are not involved in the transaction. With all the stone throwing, they will surely destroy their own industry.
> Looking forward, it is likely that any Canadian burst seller/buyer aware of this fiasco would go to the U.S. to do the deal, so the Canadian industry took a hit.


This is a great thread! Interesting POV. I do get the sense that some of the experts on the LPF have a bit of an agenda. Despite some silly comments, there are several burst experts in Canada, and plenty of bursts have come from Canada. 



YJMUJRSRV said:


> ...Tom Whitrock and Joe Gasler...


Thanks for giving me my laugh of the day!

Here's a nice coda (post#640) from one of the better-known members over at the LPF:
_"I recieved several emails from the perspective buyer and I replyed with pictures of my own burst in that range. Peter emailed me today and was very cool about everything. I just think they got excited when it came in and socialized too much. We live in a gotcha world. I don't think anyone should fear doing business with them. They did the right thing when their was questions and ultimately nothing happened. No hint of skullduggery at all. Just a bad situation. They did their due diligence ( I should say this Forum did) and no money was exchanged. All good in the hood fellas..."_


----------



## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

Interesting how threads like this turn into simmering troll bait after a few pages in length. Fortunately, the trolls get exposed, get their fill and move on...


----------



## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

this thread reminds me of the infamous "Chinese water torture "...
drip........... drip............. drip........

G.


----------



## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

YJMUJRSRV said:


> I got to see this mystery guitar in hand recently. The bozzos making internet appraisals were making many things up. Some of their more ridiculous points pure fabrication and easily brushed off with the unit in hand. There was something "too new" about the finish though. But it had all the hallmarks of a late 59 - early 60. The finish ... I dunno. And it looked like the solder joints have been re-done. Other than that its either exactly what it claims to be or one of the best replicas every made.


Well, that's good to hear. Thanks, random guy on internet...


this post comes in peace.


----------



## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

Holy Hanna. This is still going on? Has the discussion come back to life on the LPF?

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


----------



## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Finally some excitement around here


THIS IS GREAT! I needed a Sunday paper, this is WAY better. Thanks! (How did I miss this?)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Lord-Humongous said:


> Holy Hanna. This is still going on? Has the discussion come back to life on the LPF?


Nope, nothing to see here. The main guy who in June was saying, "you're all wrong and I'm right", is back to do it again... a troll. As adcandour says, a random guy on the internet taking on some of the most-respected people in the business. It's gonna rain tomorrow... go wash your car, it will be a better use of your time.


----------



## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

I see, I am a random internet troll. Interesting. I guess I will go back to actually working on pieces like this and keeping to myself. You guys can make things up with no idea who you are talking to or what you are talking about.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Rather than take this attitude why not just state who you or or what credentials you have to judge the guitar in question? Outside of that we are all "just another guy on the internet"  I wouldn't know a real '59 if it jumped up and bit me, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.



YJMUJRSRV said:


> I see, I am a random internet troll. Interesting. I guess I will go back to actually working on pieces like this and keeping to myself. You guys can make things up with no idea who you are talking to or what you are talking about.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

some people sure like fishing.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

"Wooo-hoooo! He blowed up real good. Real good!!!"


----------



## Guest (Oct 6, 2015)

[video=youtube;R4FfNYjw6qU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4FfNYjw6qU[/video]


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Thanks Larry. I woulda dun that but my kung-fu is not so good like you.


----------



## Guest (Oct 6, 2015)

you just have to exercise that 'clicking' finger more. lol.


----------



## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

Why can't we resolve this peacefully. Speaking of fingers....[video=youtube;Y1UQiDEBvTU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1UQiDEBvTU[/video]


----------



## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

laristotle said:


> [video=youtube;R4FfNYjw6qU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4FfNYjw6qU[/video]


I can't press the "" button more than once.
Done blowed up, reeeeal good! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------

