# How long would it take a professional musician to harmonize a basic melody?



## mozilla2004 (Nov 1, 2020)

Hey Everyone, I wonder if I can get some feedback on if I'm doing something correctly.

For the past year, I decided to learn basic music theory (like chord theory, major scales, natural minor scale, time signatures). And to practice my theory, I would find melodies I like, then try to make my own guitar arrangement of it. Guitar is my first instrument. I've been playing guitar for 2 years now. I'm self taught based on what I can find on YouTube.

Today, after 100 hours of noodling and practicing, I was finally able to make this basic 3 minute arrangement:






My arrangement is based off of the melody from this musical score here:





 (from 0:35 to the end)

Too me, I feel like it's crazy that it took me 100 hours just to make my own 3 min version of this basic melody, because it's supposed to be simple right? This is how I spent my time:

10 hours - within the first 10 hours of my assignment, I figured out 80% of what notes I wanted to play

40 hours - it took roughly another 40 hours to revise the composition (eg. changing the chord voicing, changing the bass line, glissando vs. straight plucking etc...)...i also threw out a lot of stuff that I thought was frivolous that I had initially incorporated

50 hours - practice practice practice ---- I keep making mistakes with timing , fret rattling when i get sloppy, and just trying to clean up my playing (in my recording i still had to edit some mistakes in pro tools first, and I had to cheat by using a metronome drum track to help me stay on time).

My question is...if a professional guitarist were to do this, they would probably have been able to do everything I was doing in less than a day right? Or can they do this in just a few minutes? Because I see these youtube guitarist who take song requests, and after listenign to a song for the first time, they start improving on the spot...it's crazy!!! Or is that just some post-video-editing trickery? How long would it take a professional to do what I just did? I want to get better!!!


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Your question has a lot of answers my friend, but let me start by saying, you did not start simple. What you undertook is extremely complex and thoughtful and truthfully very well crafted. 

The simple answer is yes, it would take someone *Familiar *with the instrument considerably less time to do this, but what you have to understand is they have already put in the 1000's of hours to hone the craft. I have been playing on and off for over 20 years and I still cannot do what you did. So there is that. Could I improvise a melody over it and sneak in some phrasing and harmony, sure thing I could!! What you did was craft a whole new arrangement of an existing song. Hats off to you for the endeavour and well done I say. 

Keep doing it, you will find as the understanding and familiarity grow, it will take less and less time as the "learning" in between will no longer be a burden because you will already know.

Most of us just start with Deep Purple's Smoke on The Water, not orchestral compositions from Jerry Goldsmith


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

You're getting better by virtue of the fact that you're working on it. I totally understand your desire to get better/faster, but it's a process. You've done an amazing job as a self-taught player and I think you have a lot of strengths.

My recommendation: Find a good teacher who understands what you're trying to do and who can help you provide you with the tools to help you get there sooner. In person lessons, if you're comfortable. You seem to like chord-melody style, so that's something you should communicate to a potential teacher.

There's always going to be a YouTube or Instagram guitarist who can do things you can't, no matter how accomplished you are. That's just how it is. No need to compare. Just focus on your own journey.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I'd just say that what you’ve done there is really nice. And I don’t usually say stuff like that..lol


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

Cool arrangement! And thanks for sharing, not everyone would do it.

I have no idea how long it would take for a pro, I’m not sure there’s even an answer, and if there’s one I’m not sure that would be that useful.

I like that kind of solo guitar arrangement like Ted Green, and as others stated this is tough . Don’t worry about YouTube, if you keep practicing you’ll also be able to improvise over song. Improvisation is composition in real time, like anything on guitar it takes practice but eventually you get there. Take your time it’s about the journey not the destination .


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## mozilla2004 (Nov 1, 2020)

@Mark Brown - OK thanks, yes makes sense. The pros have already put in a lot of the homework, and really there's no short cut to that. And i just need to keep practicing . 

@Grab n Go - yes! I realize now i need to look for a mentor. I actually just hired a piano teacher, because I thought maybe if I learn some piano, it will help my guitar skills. Guitar is just so hard...especially if I want to play with multiple voices. On Piano, i thought maybe it will be easier...piano will help me visualize what I want, then i can figure out hte mechanics of playing it on guitar afterwards. I wonder if that would work.

@Derek_T -- YES! TEd GREEN! I re-watched some videos of him improvising Bach style last week. I was still mid-way through working on my Star Trek theme, but when I saw Ted Green do that bach improv on his guitar, I said, "ok..i'll never be abel to do that in my life time if I don't get some help. ANd guitar is too hard...I'm going to lok for a piano teacher ... maybe it will be easier to learn multiple voices on one instrument with a piano instead of a guitar...my fretting hand hurts too much right now...."


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

The fact that you can do it at all after playing for two years is absolutely fantastic. Seriously. It tells me that you're on a good path. It will get easier as you do more of it. Just keep doing it.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

mozilla2004 said:


> @Mark Brown - OK thanks, yes makes sense. The pros have already put in a lot of the homework, and really there's no short cut to that. And i just need to keep practicing .
> 
> @Grab n Go - yes! I realize now i need to look for a mentor. I actually just hired a piano teacher, because I thought maybe if I learn some piano, it will help my guitar skills. Guitar is just so hard...especially if I want to play with multiple voices. On Piano, i thought maybe it will be easier...piano will help me visualize what I want, then i can figure out hte mechanics of playing it on guitar afterwards. I wonder if that would work.
> 
> @Derek_T -- YES! TEd GREEN! I re-watched some videos of him improvising Bach style last week. I was still mid-way through working on my Star Trek theme, but when I saw Ted Green do that bach improv on his guitar, I said, "ok..i'll never be abel to do that in my life time if I don't get some help. ANd guitar is too hard...I'm going to lok for a piano teacher ... maybe it will be easier to learn multiple voices on one instrument with a piano instead of a guitar...my fretting hand hurts too much right now...."


Take your time, your hands are going to get stronger. Also, try to put less pressure in your fretting hand. With a well set up guitar a light touch is enough, better take that habit early.
I’m not sure piano is easier, than guitar. Each instrument have their own things but I don’t think learning other instruments would hurt either.


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## mozilla2004 (Nov 1, 2020)

And ... my dream...is to some day make a guitar arrangement for this:






It might have to be a metal version, and maybe I can't do it all one one instrument with multiple voices. But some day, if I can make a guitar version for it, I will be so happy....


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## mozilla2004 (Nov 1, 2020)

Derek_T said:


> Take your time, your hands are going to get stronger. Also, try to put less pressure in your fretting hand. With a well set up guitar a light touch is enough, better take that habit early.
> I’m not sure piano is easier, than guitar. Each instrument have their own things but I don’t think learning other instruments would hurt either.


You're right! I need to work on less pressure, because sometimes I press so hard the notes sound kind of out of tune.... and i heard if you learn to play with a light touch, things will sound more natural and you wn't make as many mistakes.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Piano is a fantastic learning tool, not to mention an amazing instrument all unto itself. It does make the theory behind music make a lot more sense simply because it is a linear scaled instrument. That being said, no matter how good at the piano you become, you won't get any better on the guitar 

You have a vision, a direction and by the sounds of it the drive. I say you are well on the way. Plus, if you tell yourself you cannot do things in life then you have condemned yourself to failure before you ever even begin. Strive for the goal, don't focus on getting there.


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## mozilla2004 (Nov 1, 2020)

Mark Brown said:


> Piano is a fantastic learning tool, not to mention an amazing instrument all unto itself. It does make the theory behind music make a lot more sense simply because it is a linear scaled instrument. That being said, no matter how good at the piano you become, you won't get any better on the guitar
> 
> You have a vision, a direction and by the sounds of it the drive. I say you are well on the way. Plus, if you tell yourself you cannot do things in life then you have condemned yourself to failure before you ever even begin. Strive for the goal, don't focus on getting there.


Yes makes sense! I'll use piano as a learning instrument when I need a break from guitar. But still focus on improving guitar. And I'll keep open mind !


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

mozilla2004 said:


> You're right! I need to work on less pressure, because sometimes I press so hard the notes sound kind of out of tune.... and i heard if you learn to play with a light touch, things will sound more natural and you wn't make as many mistakes.


Another thing is that if the nut slots on the guitar are too high it will press out of tune no matter how light you wanna touch it. So if you haven’t checked out the slot height maybe have it looked at if you don’t know how to do it yourself.

I didn’t see the part about only playing for two years. Seemed to me that you have a good hand on the instrument and play without looking at what you are doing which is a skill level usually beyond two years.

As for time to put things together. With the amount of dedication and work that you appear to be putting into this it might just flip over sometime and all of a sudden you’ll be able to do it without much effort. Right now you seem to be very much in the early stages but have good prospects to look forward to based on what you have achieved in a relatively short time.


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## mozilla2004 (Nov 1, 2020)

Wardo said:


> Another thing is that if the nut slots on the guitar are too high it will press out of tune no matter how light you wanna touch it. So if you haven’t checked out the slot height maybe have it looked at if you don’t know how to do it yourself.
> 
> I didn’t see the part about only playing for two years. Seemed to me that you have a good hand on the instrument and play without looking at what you are doing which is a skill level usually beyond two years.
> 
> As for time to put things together. With the amount of dedication and work that you appear to be putting into this it might just flip over sometime and all of a sudden you’ll be able to do it without much effort. Right now you seem to be very much in the early stages but have good prospects to look forward to based on what you have achieved in a relatively short time.


You are right about the nut slot. My friend lent me his acoustic guitar and both the bridge and the nut slot are too high...i need to use so much strength on left hand to form bar chords. I'd use the acoustic for strength practice, but I don't feel confident recording with acoustic because my hand dexterity and strength isn't there yet.

For my experience, actually I'm probably closing in on 3 years now after a few more months. Twenty years ago when I was in high sschool, picked up a guitar for the first time to play the rhythm parts for the iconic Metallica songs (Enter Sandman, One, Unforgiven). I did this religiously just over half a year. Everything was just the power chord hand shape. I could only play two simple solos at the time, beginning of fade to black and the nothing else matter solo. My catalogue was very limited, and I struggled to improve without a teacher, and I remember how impossible it felt to play in time with the drum tracks (a great number of my questions in this forum are asking for help on getting basics for rhythm down). Metallica was too difficult for me, so then I stopped playing guitar all together for twenty years.

I picked up my guitar again 2 years ago, but decided to avoid meallica because I remember how difficult it was. So I tried covering other music. I struggled. So that's when I decided to learn music theory last year. And now things are so much easier!

Today, I still can't play any of the metallica songs well because my sense of rhythm is still a challenge. I'll return to Metallica some day once I master playing to 4/4 time at a slow pace

Thanks Wardo, this helped me reflect on my journey!


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Amazing! Keep at it. Don’t worry about how long it takes. The end result is what matters. It may or may not get faster for you but don’t concentrate on that. Concentrate on the results. The process will naturally change over time as you work on results.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Fantastic. You have an approach to learning guitar that is much more musically beneficial than how most of us started- wanking out blues licks. 😆
Keep it up and you'll get faster- not that it matters. Enjoy the process.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

As someone else underlined, those how seem to do it easily did get the necessary background before what you see them do. There is no secret there.

« See on, do one, teach one, is the best way to learn » was I said as a teenager. When I decided it was time for me to go beyond the chords catalog and undertand the whole thing so I could get rid of the catalog, I spent probably a hundred hours drawing sketches of chords on the fretboard after I had studied the different scales : Appeared so foolish to some but so rewarding to me !

While exploring old delta blues, I « wrote » a quite simple Blues in E and another more sophisticated one in A : My own « creation » in E revealed to be a salad of quite known phrases and ornamentations usually encountered while the other in A was not very palatable… My journey had brought me to study the usual effects (bend, slide, hammer on and pull off) and I had paid a particular attention to turn-arounds. So I believe I learned more and appreciated more the old original pieces than playing a few hundreds blues in E or A.

Do it your own way, man, but do it !


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## Dru Edwards (9 mo ago)

You did a great job! 100 hours seems like a long time but it's your first one. Your next one will be done quicker because you'll understand the process better. Same with other iterations. Your ear will also get better as well as your ability to express yourself on the guitar. You'll be able to capture your ideas quicker.

Stick with it and enjoy what you do.


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## DavidChandross (10 mo ago)

Not that it matters, but to answer you, a pro arranger could do that in an afternoon. They see patterns and common themes and can voice them almost on the spot. I knew some jazz trumpet players who could comp on the piano with full chordal melodies for hours and they were not even piano pros. But people like you and I, it takes a long time, months sometimes. Good work and thanks for sharing some really solid playing.


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## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

I was blown away by Jimmy Pages sloppy "hey i just learnt this guitar recently" approach to his electric sweaty live shows. 
Difficult for a honed player to do that. 
Hats off to you for sharing, a great accomplishment my friend.


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## mozilla2004 (Nov 1, 2020)

DavidChandross said:


> Not that it matters, but to answer you, a pro arranger could do that in an afternoon. They see patterns and common themes and can voice them almost on the spot. I knew some jazz trumpet players who could comp on the piano with full chordal melodies for hours and they were not even piano pros. But people like you and I, it takes a long time, months sometimes. Good work and thanks for sharing some really solid playing.


This is great because now my goal I want to see if I can cut my hours in half by sometime next year! Now I can create some realistic goals! thank you!


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## Dru Edwards (9 mo ago)

mozilla2004 said:


> This is great because now my goal I want to see if I can cut my hours in half by sometime next year! Now I can create some realistic goals! thank you!


Do you have any guitar friends that can spend a couple of hours with you for the next one? Simple pointers can go a long way.

Keep it up! It's exciting and you should feel a sense of accomplishment for your achievement.


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## mozilla2004 (Nov 1, 2020)

Dru Edwards said:


> Do you have any guitar friends that can spend a couple of hours with you for the next one? Simple pointers can go a long way.
> 
> Keep it up! It's exciting and you should feel a sense of accomplishment for your achievement.


I do have a few friends. But sometimes they speak with very advanced musical terminology and concepts, that I end up posting their feedback on guitarscanada.com forums so that you guys translate it back to me.

I find people in this forum are able to explain one concept to me in a dozen different ways, it gives me many different angles to look at the same problem.

So many amazing people on here


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