# One for the car luddites.......



## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Its always amazing to hear old people talk about how they dont build them like they use to. Thats a good thing..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CU-k0XmLUk


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

its a shame they had to wreck a perfectly good classic car to make a somewhat irrelevant point.."cars are safer than they used to be".....nobody buys a classic car because it's safe


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i would like to see photos of the cars post accident. i don't believe the part about the slight knee injury. from where i am sitting it looks like his legs probably woulda speared his lungs


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

kqoct The front end of that Bel Air caves. But the dash stays straight? There was nothing under the hood of that one.


 and darn tootin todays cars are safer. They dissolve in about 5 years but they do so while keeping you safe!

The history of the Automobile is a fun one to study. Often, multiple sides fail to mention each other. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_safety#History


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_nader#Automobile-safety_activism


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Once I was chatting with the mechanic at my local shop and he said how people always complain that cars aren't made like they used to, and he said it's a darn good thing they're not. He agreed that cars today are safer and actually of higher quality than of years ago.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

the only part of modern cars that really is not up to old classics is the metal science.

Though I do really hate "box on wheel" design too. PT Cruisers were great for showing artistry in possible in design, not everything needs to be designed solely in a wind tunnel.

However, an old tale, one that I lived and I like to tell: I took autobody in high school. One of the guys had a pair of front fenders from a 1932 Chevy. He got them from his grandfather who had bought them new in 1932, and when they had arrived to the farm, he had sold the car and so had no use for them. So, he just stuck them at the back of the barn. Fast Forward to 1994 and my classmate poking around and spying these at the back of that barn, still wrapped in their original brown wax paper, with the delivery slip still on them in dried out cellophane tape; he could not resist, he picked them up and brought them to class. We watched as these were unwrapped for the first time since delivery in 1932, having sat in a barn all those years. There were two contact points where the front corners were touching the ground that had less than a palms worth of surface rust and pitting. The rest still had shine on it under that wax paper. 

I cannot think of a single maker of a single car today of who's products you could say the same. In this respect, yes, old cars are better than new. But it is a ... mediocrity people seem to accept of a lot of things. We design to dispose not retain. With cars, a 2 year lease, 1 year extension, sell it, who cares if the engine dies at 5 years, those people have moved on and are at that point in time doing their 3rd year extension on their latest vehicle.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Keep dreaming about old cars. Heres a small modern car, crashing into a big safe older car............

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1897765951498046612#


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I am not sure that the accolades should be going to the Insurance Industry.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Whether the video was creatively controlled or not, I don't need to see a video to know that cars are dramatically safer now than decades ago.

Yes, the cars might have taken less damage back in the 50s but the people inside were generally toast in anything other than a minor fender bender.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

keeperofthegood said:


> the only part of modern cars that really is not up to old classics is the metal science.
> 
> Though I do really hate "box on wheel" design too. PT Cruisers were great for showing artistry in possible in design, not everything needs to be designed solely in a wind tunnel.
> 
> ...


There's a considerable cost factor in making cars last. Plating and painting come at a wide range of costs. On a single fitting these elements can easily range from $0.05 to as much as a couple of dollars, depending on the salt spray specifications.

People want the "olde time" quality, but 90% of us won't pay for it.

Also, the metal thickness of sheet metal, naturally has an impact on fuel efficiency. Power to weight is everything. Metal costs money and so does gas.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Milkman said:


> There's a considerable cost factor in making cars last. Plating and painting come at a wide range of costs. On a single fitting these elements can easily range from $0.05 to as much as a couple of dollars, depending on the salt spray specifications.
> 
> People want the "olde time" quality, but 90% of us won't pay for it.
> 
> Also, the metal thickness of sheet metal, naturally has an impact on fuel efficiency. Power to weight is everything. Metal costs money and so does gas.



Oh indeed. If I can recall correctly the cars of the 30's used an alloy with zinc which simply resisted corrosion. At some point the cost went up and the alloy went out. 

Some things though I do feel should be built to last longer than they are. The resources and energy cost of making a car are huge, compared to a pick-nick table. I would expect a car to cost more of course, but I would expect a car to also materially last longer than the pick-nick table. However, they appear to be made of the same sheet metal and they corrode and break down at the same rate just sitting exposed to the world around them.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I love the British. :smile:


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

keeperofthegood said:


> Oh indeed. If I can recall correctly the cars of the 30's used an alloy with zinc which simply resisted corrosion. At some point the cost went up and the alloy went out.
> 
> Some things though I do feel should be built to last longer than they are. The resources and energy cost of making a car are huge, compared to a pick-nick table. I would expect a car to cost more of course, but I would expect a car to also materially last longer than the pick-nick table. However, they appear to be made of the same sheet metal and they corrode and break down at the same rate just sitting exposed to the world around them.


Environmental issues definitely come into play. Anyone in the industry knows that all OEMS have been obliged to eliminate a group of heavy metals from their manufacturing processes, some of which were key elements in plating. The one that most of will know about is hexavalent chromium (watch Erin Brokovitch for a tutorial).

This chemical was determined to be a carcinogen and the most common subtitute (trivalent chromium) has much reduced resistance to rust.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I know Saturns have a front end that crumples up and helps protect the passengers inside. The front end is destroyed, but the interior is virtually undamaged, unlike other cars.

I know this from personal experience.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

zontar said:


> I know Saturns have a front end that crumples up and helps protect the passengers inside. The front end is destroyed, but the interior is virtually undamaged, unlike other cars.
> 
> I know this from personal experience.



This brings to ming two of the most amazing things I have encountered in life (from the List of Amazing things One Encounters in Life).

In the mid-90's to early 2000's I met at the very most least 3 people involved in car roll over accidents. All three of these people had the experience the day before I met them. All three were fully unhurt; no contusions, bruises, or even protein spilled. All three were driving a Saturn.

Aside from the very odd coincidences of Saturn + Rollover, it is an amazing thing to see people who not only have bad car accidents (one fellow rolled from a highway down an embankment to a side road) and be fully uninjured from the experience and all expecting to have their cars back!


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i wrecked this car 5 times, and got tired of rebuilding it


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

keeperofthegood said:


> Aside from the very odd coincidences of Saturn + Rollover, it is an amazing thing to see people who not only have bad car accidents (one fellow rolled from a highway down an embankment to a side road) and be fully uninjured from the experience and all expecting to have their cars back!


I've still got soft tissue damage.


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## augerman (Sep 6, 2009)

The guy in the new Impala was probably on the phone and crossed over into the '59s lane. largetongue
The What If game.........
What if, they'd put airbags in the cars back then when they were developed,
what if.....people wore seat belts.
what if.....we all drove like our lives depended on it...

It was a different world, no use comparing apples to oranges.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

*And on that note.*

This is cute and worth the watch. 

http://growingbolder.com/media/technology/vehicles/romancing-the-road-259598.html


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> This is cute and worth the watch.
> 
> http://growingbolder.com/media/technology/vehicles/romancing-the-road-259598.html


:bow: when not getting into accidents, as I said, cared for old cars do last. 

My 2001 Mazda MPV from the mouth of the President of Marketing Canada for Mazda said "The MPV was never built to drive 180,000KM. The Zoom Zoom Zoom commercial does not imply that it will travel better or farther or longer than any other vehicle. It only means that you look good when you sit in the drivers seat."

It's been 5 years now since I sold that off and I still get recall notices in the mail. I will never own another Ford product in my life.


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> This is cute and worth the watch.
> 
> http://growingbolder.com/media/technology/vehicles/romancing-the-road-259598.html


Awesome!!:bow::bow:


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

It was cute right up to the point where she showed off her hand gun.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Well yes, but I wasn't going to point that out. It's about the car, NOT grannies protection.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Well yes, but I wasn't going to point that out. It's about the car, NOT grannies protection.


Old ideas go well together.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

keeperofthegood said:


> This brings to ming two of the most amazing things I have encountered in life (from the List of Amazing things One Encounters in Life).
> 
> In the mid-90's to early 2000's I met at the very most least 3 people involved in car roll over accidents. All three of these people had the experience the day before I met them. All three were fully unhurt; no contusions, bruises, or even protein spilled. All three were driving a Saturn.
> 
> Aside from the very odd coincidences of Saturn + Rollover, it is an amazing thing to see people who not only have bad car accidents (one fellow rolled from a highway down an embankment to a side road) and be fully uninjured from the experience and all expecting to have their cars back!


hmmm. When the wheels are on the pavement they are great cars. 320kms .. two brake jobs and two wheel bearings.... that's it. 
Sorry about the tissue damage zontar... know the feeling.


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## WarrenG (Feb 3, 2006)

Man's got to know his limitations...



cheezyridr said:


> i wrecked this car 5 times, and got tired of rebuilding it


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