# Homemade Leslie...foot switch



## rcacs

Picked up the Leslie rotating speaker set-up from an old Hammond organ and am currently building my own "Leslie Speaker" for using with guitar. Due to the way the 2 motors work, the drum will actually be in a vertical position (if you're familiar with the set-up you will know why it has to be that way) like a Fender Vibratone.

I am now looking for a wiring schematic to build a foot control, the pictures I have seen show a box with two plunger type switches, one for on/off and the other for low/high speed.

I should add, there are no interface boards or any other connectors. Very simple wiring at the moment: 2 speaker wires connected to a 1/4" jack plug; and two wires from each motor. I am currently controlling the speed with a on/off/on toggle switch on the cabinet face.

Please note, I am not looking for info to set it up as a variable speed, just slow and fast.

Appreciate any information recieved...

Cheers!


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## mhammer

From your description, I am assuming this is one of those styrofoam "cheesewheel" baffles (as I like to call them). I have one, and my "Speed" control is simply a stompswitch that routes the 2nd of two wires on the AC cord to motor A or motor B. Is this the best thing for the stompswitch, or necessarily the safest or most noise free? Not necessarily. One would always rather have AC situated elsewhere than one's body, but unless you use a VERY oddball switch, you will be isolated from any AC being switched. There may or may not be line noise produced by the momentary changeover from powering motor A to motor B, depending on how you power things. But it works just fine, and I've used that method without problem since 1978 or so.

Assuming this appeals to you, the arrangement is wire 1 on AC cord goes to one of the two leads on each motor (all 3 wires joined). These are AC motors, so there is nothing unique about either of the two wires coming from each motor; one's as good as the other and has no impact on direction or anything like that.

The 2nd wire goes to one lug of an SPST switch, so you can completely depower the speaker baffle and stop rotation. A wire goes from the other lug of that switch to the common of a SPDT switch. The free wire from one of the motors goes to one of the outside lugs of that switch, and same thing for the other free wire.

This arrangement lets you stop/enable power in general, and feed power to one motor or the other. *NONE of these switches should have any electrical contact whatsoever between the outside of the switch and the AC it is carrying*. The more sophisticated switch-boxes go the extra mile and use relays, such that the user is completely and assuredly isolated from AC.

Ramp-up/down time has nothing to do with the switch-box, and is entirely a byproduct of the fact that a) the baffle has some mass and takes time to accelerate/decellerate, and b) the unit is belt-driven and friction takes time.


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## rcacs

Thanks Hammer, the spdt switches I have looked at locally are small and pretty fragile looking....Will have to look around next time I am in the big city for switches capable of carrying 115vac.

FYI, I followed directions from an old Hammond service manual to adjust the drive belt to get the right amount of "slip" when the motors start up and spin the drum. It actually sounds quite amazing if you let the high speed slow down before engaging the slow speed motor. 

Cheers!


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## mhammer

EVERY guitar player deserves to, and should, try playing through a rotating speaker at least once in their lifetime. It's a transformative experience, isn't it?

I recently picked up an older Pearl Phaser that has adjustable slow and fast speed and ramps up and down between them. It's a neat effect, but doesn't have the same feel as a motor-speed changeover on a Vibratone/Leslie.


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## gtone

mhammer said:


> EVERY guitar player deserves to, and should, try playing through a rotating speaker at least once in their lifetime. It's a transformative experience, isn't it?


+1 - Amen brother Mark!


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## nonreverb

A word of advice...Best to make a low voltage speed control. Get yourself a 12 or 24 VAC stepdown tranny and a 12 or 24VAC relay. That way there's no danger of bad arcing or worse electrocution.....brought to you by your friendly neighbourhood Hammond/Leslie tech


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## rcacs

I think I will go the relay/transformer route. That way I dont need 2 110 volt cables going to the switch box, and it will be a safer set up.


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## Buzz

My model 125 is great for guitar. I havent taken out the original Jensen c12n, maybe soon though my Fender Princeton II would sound great with it. I've got a Christmas tree light switcher for speed control. Thats the way I got it from the guy, it works, although it may break if I stomp too hard.


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## bolero

I built one of these using relays I'll dig up the schematic it works great and was fairly simple


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## rcacs

bolero said:


> I built one of these using relays I'll dig up the schematic it works great and was fairly simple


I do have it in my mind how to do it, but that would be greatly appreciateted!!

Cheers!


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## J-75

If you're serious about _using_ this on a regular basis, and want something you can move around easily, look up the 'Neo Ventilator'. It's a very accurate Leslie 122 simulator. Check it out on Youtube:

Neo Ventilator vs 122 Leslie Hearing is Believing - YouTube

Neo Instruments Ventilator review (Leslie 122 simulator) - YouTube

There are tons more demos, if you're interested.


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## nonreverb

Cool yes, but it's no Leslie. The truly cool thing about a Leslie that no pedal can hope to simulate, is the actual distribution of sound around a room.
The motion of the rotors throws sound in all directions which creates sound reflections. As you move about the room, the reflections and the distance from the Leslie will create totally different effects. Yes, it's true that when it's mic'ed and far away the effect is lost and hauling a Leslie around is a supreme chore, but you just can't beat that sound. Once you hear it you'll never forget it 



J-75 said:


> If you're serious about _using_ this on a regular basis, and want something you can move around easily, look up the 'Neo Ventilator'. It's a very accurate Leslie 122 simulator. Check it out on Youtube:
> 
> Neo Ventilator vs 122 Leslie Hearing is Believing - YouTube
> 
> Neo Instruments Ventilator review (Leslie 122 simulator) - YouTube
> 
> There are tons more demos, if you're interested.


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## shoretyus

nonreverb said:


> .brought to you by your friendly neighbourhood Hammond/Leslie tech


Oh... I just thought you were an addict.. hwopv


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## nonreverb

Lol!!!!!!!


shoretyus said:


> oh... I just thought you were an addict.. Hwopv


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## J-75

nonreverb said:


> Cool yes, but it's no Leslie. The truly cool thing about a Leslie that no pedal can hope to simulate, is the actual distribution of sound around a room.
> The motion of the rotors throws sound in all directions which creates sound reflections. As you move about the room, the reflections and the distance from the Leslie will create totally different effects. Yes, it's true that when it's mic'ed and far away the effect is lost and hauling a Leslie around is a supreme chore, but you just can't beat that sound. Once you hear it you'll never forget it


Ya, nonreverb, I'll give you that. The Vent does have a 'Distance' knob which does some spatial convergence effect to address the distribution effect. Up close, there's no questioning that it's a stationary source you're listening to, because your ears are working in stereo mode relative to the sound source, but at 20 feet away, the Vent starts to sound nearly the same as a Leslie in a large room. I've got a Vent, but I've had a 760, 251, 122, two 125's, and still have a 145 (which I'll take to my grave). Leaving portability aside, in close quarters the Leslie has a _distinct_ audible advantage. I think that a pedal made to drive two stationary speakers could simulate the swirl, and all it encompasses... - some day.
That being said, a lot of clonewheel folks have switched over, where rotary is their _primary_ sound effect, whereas in the _performing_ guitar community, where pedals are king, does one really want to drag a rotary box around for one, or two, tunes each night? I know a (former) Vibratone owner who gigs a lot. He eventually sold his in favour of a pedal - hauling a real rotary around just to play Cold Shot?
One other thing to consider is that the Vent was designed to simulate a twin rotor Leslie 122, with a 122 tube amp - that's not just a rotary, that's _the_ rotary to emulate. The Vibratone isn't even close to that. Granted, this difference is best expressed with an intended keyboard source, rather than a guitar.

- Just sayin'


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## mhammer

nonreverb said:


> Cool yes, but it's no Leslie. The truly cool thing about a Leslie that no pedal can hope to simulate, is the actual distribution of sound around a room.
> The motion of the rotors throws sound in all directions which creates sound reflections. As you move about the room, the reflections and the distance from the Leslie will create totally different effects. Yes, it's true that when it's mic'ed and far away the effect is lost and hauling a Leslie around is a supreme chore, but you just can't beat that sound. Once you hear it you'll never forget it


+1

I have a "cheesewheel" Vibratone taken from a Kawai organ, a Line 6 Roto-Machine, and several other rotary emulations in Lexicon, Behringer, and Line 6 multi-FX, as well as a Pearl Phaser that has ramp-up/down. None of the solid-state emulations come close to the majesty of an actual spinning sound source.

Part of it IS the fact that you get the spatial distribution of sound, but another part is that it is fundamentally a "post-production" effect, superimposed at the very tail end of the signal path, after the amplifier (indeed, after the speaker). That tends to make it harmonically richer, and makes any doppler effects resulting all the more interesting to our ears. Inserting a digital or analog emulation *before* the amplifier is not quite the same thing. Better than most attempts to mimic using a chorus, flanger, uni-vibe, or phaser, certainly, but not quite the same thing.

The other thing I cannot stress quite enough is that if one is using such a pedal in mono, you are missing more than half the fun. In mono, they make you think "Hmm, that's nice". Used with two amps, all those various pedals or patches come alive. It's not exactly the same as the true spinning speaker, but it comes much much closer than a pedal plugged into a single amp.


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## bolero

well I couldn't find the schem on my PC I must have archived it somewhere....thank god for the internet though, as I *did* find some reference from ages ago when I built the thing, on plexipalace 

http://www.vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?f=12&start=15&t=25994

I used a yellow/green LED for speed ( fast/slow ) and a red LED for power indicator


here's the schem, I originally got from a Netherlands website this fellow named Theo ran, he came up with the circuit:

http://thebin.free.fr/Leslie/Leslie.Switching.Schematic.JPG

there are some notes on the circuit as well...here:

http://thebin.free.fr/Leslie/Divers/NOTES.RTF

http://thebin.free.fr/Leslie/Divers/RELAYS.RTF



and here is a treasure trove of .pdf's including a copy of the vibratone users manual, and a bunch of other stuff:


Index of /Leslie

and:

Index of /Leslie/Divers


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## rcacs

Thanks for all that great info, but I already have it all wired up and am presently building the cab for it. I used a relay and 24vac transformer for switching thru my homemade foot pedal. When the relay is not powered, the low speed operates, when the relay gets powered up it switches to the high speed. I adjusted the rotor belt to give me about a 4-5 second ramp time.

I am powering the speaker with an old old Kent tube head that has tremolo speed/strength built in, so you can really change things up sound-wise.

The speaker is an 8" and appears to be the original. 

I may swap it out for a good guitar speaker yet, so I am seeking suggestions....

Leslie project pictures by rcacs - Photobucket

Cheers!


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## bolero

no sweat, maybe someone else can use that info too, it sure helped me with mine

do you have an option to stop the spinning baffle, as well?


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## bolero

ps here's a couple quick shots of the one I did












with the panel off


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## rcacs

bolero said:


> no sweat, maybe someone else can use that info too, it sure helped me with mine
> 
> do you have an option to stop the spinning baffle, as well?


Once its in the cab I am building it will have a normal on/off switch. I had thought of another stomp switch, but I dont see using it as a regular speaker at this point.

cheers!


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## mhammer

In some respects, one really wants a switchover to a 2nd cab for the non-rotated sound. The "cheesewheel" Vibratone-type units obstruct the speaker with the styrofoam baffle, dulling the resulting tone quite a bit. Simply shutting off the motor, or "braking" te baffle will not get the tone of a standard front-loaded speaker cab. If you're okay with that tone, fine. I'm just saying that things like Strat-cluck will not be quite as audible via a motionless Vibratone.


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## rcacs

Apparently the new Leslie G27/37 actually stop in a position not affecting the speaker. At any rate, the current 8" speaker in my project isnt really all that great to use as a stand alone.

Cheers!


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## Mooh

Yes, there's nothing quite like a real rotating speaker. The Boss emulation doesn't come close, though it's a pleasant enough sound on its own.

I wonder why the Mesa rotating speaker didn't catch on.

I admire you for attempting this build. Very cool.

Peace, Mooh.


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## rcacs

Finished up the project (for now), it sounds pretty decent but really needs a new speaker as it breaks up with the volume cranked. Will find a good 8" guitar speaker for it.

http://s1181.photobucket.com/albums/x438/rcacs/Leslie project/

Cheers!


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## bdoan

rcacs said:


> Picked up the Leslie rotating speaker set-up from an old Hammond organ and am currently building my own "Leslie Speaker" for using with guitar. Due to the way the 2 motors work, the drum will actually be in a vertical position (if you're familiar with the set-up you will know why it has to be that way) like a Fender Vibratone.
> 
> I am now looking for a wiring schematic to build a foot control, the pictures I have seen show a box with two plunger type switches, one for on/off and the other for low/high speed.
> 
> I should add, there are no interface boards or any other connectors. Very simple wiring at the moment: 2 speaker wires connected to a 1/4" jack plug; and two wires from each motor. I am currently controlling the speed with a on/off/on toggle switch on the cabinet face.
> 
> Please note, I am not looking for info to set it up as a variable speed, just slow and fast.
> 
> Appreciate any information recieved...
> 
> Cheers!


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## bdoan

Which model Leslie do you have?
The switching voltage is different of (for instance) the 31H and the 147


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## nonreverb

bdoan said:


> Which model Leslie do you have?
> The switching voltage is different of (for instance) the 31H and the 147


First of all, welcome to the forum!

It's an old thread. Long since completed. FYI the 122, 31H and 142 all use the same piggyback DC switching voltage.
What this builder was after was the same 120VAC as a 147. More like a Leslie 120 with no amplifier.


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## jb welder

I'm sad to report rcacs passed away a few years back.


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## nonreverb

jb welder said:


> I'm sad to report rcacs passed away a few years back.


Very sorry to hear that.


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