# Norman B-20-12 age?



## damijan

Can anyone tell age of this guitar? The serial number on the sticker is #1602. According to this serial number should be old, but confusing is that looks like made yesterday. Any idea of value?
Thanks!!


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## GuyB

Hi damijan,

I remember having bought the same guitar in (or around) 1983. Sold it a little bit after (12 strings was too hard on my fingers at the time !). If you want to have the exact date, I suggest that you go to the Godin's site - which make Norman -, send them an email, they have always given me a fast answer whenever I had a question to ask them.

Here is the page for the B20-12 :

http://www.normanguitars.com/modelb2012.htm


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## Ship of fools

*If it's*

Well before 1980 its going to be hard to give you much detail, Godin eventually bought the name in 1989.
As for the value not much with only six strings on it, the B20-12 has a MSR of only $596.00, so the blue book suggestsd that one in good shape should be $250-$300.Ship


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## damijan

Thanks guys. The original tuning pegs were included with guitar, so I will convert it again to be 12 strings. I'm really interested of production year, as guitar looks brand new.
How to tell of what material has been made?


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## GuyB

This is from Norman's site and it's the description of all the B20 models :

«The B20 is the foundation of all the Norman guitars. The solid spruce top and lacquer finish alone distinguish this guitar. The three-layer laminate of cherry wood used in the back and sides of the B20 produces a tone that sounds warmer than maple but brighter than a mahogany guitar. The B20’s tone works beautifully for recording and blends nicely when amplified on stage.»


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## damijan

Thanks GuyB, but I would say that is for presently made B20 models.

Obviously this guitar, from picture, has the same material for front, back and sides.


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## notjoeaverage

It almost looks like it could be maple


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## Ship of fools

*Question for you*

Is the model number inside say that it is a B-20-12, can't really see it on the label. From what I understand of the older Normans the 80's models, the first number indicated the years, so I would assume that yours should be a 1981 and it sure does look like its maple all the way around and it should have a wood binding also, sorry as I mentioned most info on these older models are hard to come by after Boucher passed and it was sold tyo someone else and then Godin reaquired it after their earlier split so a lot of info was lost and it is out there on the net but requires some work to find it and its mostly from those who loved them.Ship


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## rollingdam

The B20 models at that time had solid spruce tops-this one does not so I think it is a B15.

Some of these early Normans are great sounding guitars-others are not and the 12 string models suffered from a host of problems.


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## damijan

On the label inside is written B-20-12. It is 12 strings, it is just wired right now as a 6 strings. It has bolt-on neck.


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## damijan

Thank you all. I have found out, the guitar has been made in 1975.


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## GuyB

How did you found out ?


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## damijan

Sorry! Forgot to include the link I found! There are all serial numbers for older Norman guitars.

http://pages.usherbrooke.ca/dlaroche/serie.pdf


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## xuthal

Cant read french,what are the woods used?


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## GuyB

I've taken this from the site mentioned above but without the "serie.pdf" at the end :

The 1975 B20-12 is made of laminated wild cherry for the top, back and sides; maple neck and rose-wood fingerboard.


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## timberline

*old Norman*

Looks like a very early Norman, all laminated birch construction. Birch had been a common material for use in low-end guitars during the 40s and 50s. As I recall, the Norman line was first shown at the MIAC show in Toronto in either '71 or 72 when I was a young salesman at Waddingtons' Music in Hamilton. We picked up the line as a result of that show.

The salesman pitching the product to prospective dealers at the time was a very young, very skinny Robert Godin who later grew in both importance and personal substance as we all know.

I haven't had anything to do with Normans for about 30 years now, so memory is a bit vague. I do, however remember there was a change made to the way the necks were secured to the body within the first year or so of production. Seems to me that either the two screws were moved further back from the body edge or they added another screw or two, can't quite remember the details.
KH


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## djdeacon

I have the six-string version of the same guitar. Mine was purchased new (by me) in late 1979, so I suspect it's from the original Norman run, 1978 to about 1984. I paid 129.00 or thereabouts (case extra) for mine.

The crappy nylon tuners started to give out one by one in the late 80's, so mine has Ibanez gold pegs now. It still plays very nicely, with a very bright sound, especially with the bronze strings I prefer.


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## timberline

*Norman 12*

Guy;

The gtr. in the orig. posters' pics is definitely not made of cherry, wild or otherwise. That looks like laminated birch, which is the material used for the original series of Normans.
KH


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## Grenvilleter

timberline said:


> Guy;
> 
> The gtr. in the orig. posters' pics is definitely not made of cherry, wild or otherwise. That looks like laminated birch, which is the material used for the original series of Normans.
> KH


Agreed ! My vote is lam birch. They look just like the cupboards in my dad's '62 camper except his are solid wood. :food-smiley-004:
Actually, my buddy had one only 6 string and it was lam birch as well.


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## GuyB

timberline said:


> Guy;
> 
> The gtr. in the orig. posters' pics is definitely not made of cherry, wild or otherwise. That looks like laminated birch, which is the material used for the original series of Normans.
> KH


Yes, kind of looks like that. I was just translating for Xuthal what was said on the web site mentionned above.


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## RoxyGirl

*Norman Special Edition*

I just posted a question about an old Norman six string, then I saw this post. I checked the link with the serial numbers but the Special Edition I've been looking at isn't listed there! The guy bought it in 1977 and the serial # is 2047. The body has some cracking on the back. He's asking $400. Think that's too much? It sounds awesome though.


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## MrLuc

Cool axe. Definitely pre LaSiDo, probably 1975 but maybe 1977. The foot notes on the bottom of the "serie.pdf" mean:

(listed for 1975)
4: The label is red with white maple leaf... yes (1975-1981)
M-3: One dot on 3rd fret... yes (1970 -1977)
G: Tuning keys rear is open: ... *NO* 

The picture shoes the machine head keys are closed. (Mind you there are also 6 missing so it is possible these are not original and the guitar did in fact come with opened tuning keys. If that`s the case then it *IS* a 1975. Otherwise...

Foot note "I g" (for 1977) states:

Plastic tuning keys: *NO*
No binding on top or back: *YES*

So there is an anomaly either way. A closer look at the back of the machine heads shows the wood is lighter all along the back where the hardware sits. This guitar probably came with a vintage style keys all on one slab of tin and these are typically "open keys".

So that would make it a 1975. Either way hold on to it. It looks like its in good condition. Although it`s probably not a great sounding guitar it has some history attached to it as it was made by Normand Boucher before Godin bought him out. It may someday be worth something to a collector. 

Check out the history at :
LaSiDo history

Luc


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## evantide

Hey guys and girls, I'm a newby, was just checking my Norman which I haven't used for neons, haven't even looked at it for years, and it's the same B-20-12 except the serial number is 1127, which I assume is older than your 1602 and it doesn't have the red maple leaf just ordinary tag with Norman, Hand Made, both in French and English, serial and model. I realize this post is old, but I just found out by google-ing. Any light on mine? Again like Demijan, this guitar is mint, says a lot about the construction and finish.


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## OldGuitarPlayer

I too just acquired an early or mid 1970's Norman B-20. I got mine for $75 and it has the traditional bolt on neck without the neck heel. It looks like it's made of yellow birch. Even though the guitar is well worn it has no cracks anywhere on the top or body. I plan on using it for a campfire/busking outdoors beater guitar. Pretty amazing guitar for being 40 years old.


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## canguitarfan

Hi, I too am a newbie. I found this thread after doing a google search. I picked up an old Norman B20HGS at a flea market for $20. It is a very early model with the neck attached by 2bolts (similar to this threads 12 string). It has a solid spruce top with probably laminated birch back and sides (perhaps maple?). The guitar was in pretty scruffy shape with the neck block broken in half and loose in the body. The number 57 was stamped into the block and also on the underside of the neck. The top is quite scarred and finish cracked although the wood looks sound.There is tortoiseshell binding around top and back. The fretboard has 2 dots on the third and seventh frets. The guitar has a white label with an outer yellow leaf patterned border surround. The name Norman is written in script. The serial number says B 28149. 
So far the structural damage has been repaired and it is now playable. Doesn't seem to like the light strings I have fitted though! Would appreciate any info about when it was made and the finish materials. I tried to find the "serie.pdf" file mentioned earlier but it has now gone. Would anyone know where it can be found? Many thanks!


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## Matlamp

damijan said:


> Sorry! Forgot to include the link I found! There are all serial numbers for older Norman guitars.
> 
> http://pages.usherbrooke.ca/dlaroche/serie.pdf


Hello! I was wondering if you still by chance still have the PDF. the link does not work anymore


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