# Neck/heel repair



## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

So I picked up a Fender MA-1 3/4 (per the SN I think it's 25 years old) for $20 to help out a neighbour. It has a pretty good crack through the heel and a little crack starting on the top. For the money, if I can get it to some sort of playable shape it should be fine my kids to start banging around on. If not, no big deal, lesson learned. 

I've wanted to get into learning more about guitar maintenance/setup so I could take care of my own stuff so I figured this might be a good little project to start down that road. Or I maybe WAY over my head...we'll see.

After some youtubing I've seen a few guys essentially just sand and glue the crack in the heel and then clamp it up for a few days and voila. I've also seen guys totally remove the neck, glue the heel back together, and then reset the neck.

As a first project I'd definitely rather go with option 1. 

I currently don't have much a work space to do this stuff nor do I have many of the tools/supplies needed to do option 2.

So, option 1 it is. 

One question I do have, though, is whether or not I should loosen the truss rod (provided it even works) before I do anything to it?

Any other suggestions?

I'll post some pics of the cracked heel later tonight so I can get some opinions on how crazy I am. 

Thanks!


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)




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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

I would start to ask .. is the fretboard still straight and still on a flat horizontal plane with the guitar top, bridge etc? 

I suspect that it is and the dry AB climate has caused some shrinkage. The weak point being the glue joint where heal was attatched. 

If the fretboard is still ok I would force some glue in the crack and clamp a bit. But I would not clamp it too much if it's stable. After glueing sand/smooth/ reshape the heal then restain and refinish that section.


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## Rudder Bug (Nov 21, 2011)

Gorilla Glue maybe?


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

shoretyus said:


> I would start to ask .. is the fretboard still straight and still on a flat horizontal plane with the guitar top, bridge etc?
> 
> I suspect that it is and the dry AB climate has caused some shrinkage. The weak point being the glue joint where heal was attatched.
> 
> If the fretboard is still ok I would force some glue in the crack and clamp a bit. But I would not clamp it too much if it's stable. After glueing sand/smooth/ reshape the heal then restain and refinish that section.


Laid my straight edge on her last night and it looked pretty good, perhaps a slight bow upwards, but very slight.

Any advice regarding loosening the truss rod before I proceed with the glueing?


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Loosen it? you should be gluing no where near the trussrod...


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

If the crack closes up nicely (try dry clamping it to see), then simply use some diluted wood glue to penetrate (flex the crack gently to get it to wick in) then some undiluted glue. Clamp it and wipe away any excess glue... no need to overdo it with the clamping force either- just good firm pressure, no need to 'reef' it. The truss rod is inconsequential at this point. No need to loosen it.

My favorite one of these was an old J45 that the owner had decided to fix by putting two wood screws through the fingerboard and into the heel... UGLY!!! and of course didn't do the proper job at all. After removing the screws and gluing it properly, I mixed up some epoxy and rosewood dust to fill the holes. Even scribed some grain lines/pores into the epoxy/wood mix to make it nearly disappear. Wish I had pics, that was a fun one.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

shoretyus said:


> Loosen it? you should be gluing no where near the trussrod...


Just thought there could be added tension on the neck if the truss rod had been monkeyed with at some point.

Message received, though, leave it alone. GOT IT!


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

gtrguy said:


> If the crack closes up nicely (try dry clamping it to see), then simply use some diluted wood glue to penetrate (flex the crack gently to get it to wick in) then some undiluted glue. Clamp it and wipe away any excess glue... no need to overdo it with the clamping force either- just good firm pressure, no need to 'reef' it. The truss rod is inconsequential at this point. No need to loosen it.
> 
> My favorite one of these was an old J45 that the owner had decided to fix by putting two wood screws through the fingerboard and into the heel... UGLY!!! and of course didn't do the proper job at all. After removing the screws and gluing it properly, I mixed up some epoxy and rosewood dust to fill the holes. Even scribed some grain lines/pores into the epoxy/wood mix to make it nearly disappear. Wish I had pics, that was a fun one.


One of the videos (well, this one was a series) I watched was a guy who had done something similar and youtuber had plenty of creative words to describe this guy and his work...it was pretty funny. He ended up pulling off the neck and essentially had to rebuild the heel as it had pretty much disintegrated and eventually got it back together and looked good as new. Crazy voodoo stuff, I tell ya.

Thanks for the advice, guys, I'm going to give this a go this weekend and hopefully by Monday I'll have some new strings on her and we'll see how she looks/sounds.


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## itf? (May 27, 2009)

For a similar repair I have in the past put diluted wood glue in a syringe (you can pick up syringes with needles at a medical supply store) and literally injected it deep into the seam in order to get glue where I needed it. Then clamp it and wait. Gorilla glue as mentioned earlier can work well but keep in mind that it does expand slightly and will make cleaning up the surface and refinishing a bit of a pain. It's also sticky and messy to work with IMO.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

I'm going to try wood glue first and see how that goes.


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## Rudder Bug (Nov 21, 2011)

itf? said:


> For a similar repair I have in the past put diluted wood glue in a syringe (you can pick up syringes with needles at a medical supply store) and literally injected it deep into the seam in order to get glue where I needed it. Then clamp it and wait. Gorilla glue as mentioned earlier can work well but* keep in mind that it does expand slightly* and will make cleaning up the surface and refinishing a bit of a pain. It's also sticky and messy to work with IMO.


I would rather say that it expands A LOT. :congratulatory:

BUT...cleaning up the excess isn't that bad.

Gilles


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Cool thread! 

Please keep us posted regarding your progress with the repair.

Good Luck...Hope it all goes smoothly!

Cheers

Dave


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

So, went through with the heel job this afternoon and everything is looking good thus far.

Thanks for the suggestions regarding the thinned out glue and the syringe (wife had some at work that she brought home) as they did the job.

It's clamped and the crack seems to be healing up nicely. 

But, as I was fiddling around with trying to get the clamp set I noticed that one of the tuners was loose and upon further investigation it looks lie the screws no longer have anything to bite into. Damnit!


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2015)

toothpick and glue.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Sweet...something to try tomorrow...thanks!


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Here's the crack all "heeled" up. 










Obviously need to do some sanding but I'll get to that eventually but for the time being I just need to fix that loose tuner (hopefully tonight) and then I can string it up and see how the "fix" worked.

Thanks again for the advice!


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## Rudder Bug (Nov 21, 2011)

Can you access an airbrush? You could do a sunburst that matches the one on the body next to the heel and you would end up with an invisible repair.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Rudder Bug said:


> Can you access an airbrush? You could do a sunburst that matches the one on the body next to the heel and you would end up with an invisible repair.


Hmmm...I may have access to one but I would have no idea how to use it. Haha. 

No big deal at this point as this little gal has a few more scuffs than I'd care to touch up at this point. But I may ask around at work to see if we have any airbrushers in da house! 

For the $20 I spent to buy it and the glue I used to fix the heel crack I'm sure I could probably sell it for at least what I paid for it and probably even double my investment. Yay!

Anyway, fixed the tuning peg tonight with a toothpick (thanks for the tip, laristotle) and strung her up and so far so good. I only had .012 gauge strings on hand (what the guitar comes with from factory per Fender's site) but I think I'll eventually get some .010 gauge for my daughters as I'm sure those will feel a little better on their tiny fingers.

I'd say the action is a little high but nothing crazy and there are also some sharp fret ends. It's still pretty dry around here so I may hold off on filing the fret ends down. I think I'll leave the guitar in one of my daughter's rooms as we run humidifiers for them most nights so maybe the guitar will soak up some of that moisture and expand a bit.

Thanks again for all of the suggestions and advice as I'm pretty proud of myself at the moment as I was able to turn an unplayable instrument into a playable one. With a little more work down the road I could even turn it into nice little guitar for my girls or somebody else's kids. Pretty cool feeling!

I'll post more pics post sanding and if I dare trying to refinishing it.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Yep, you have good reason to be proud of yourself! You took on a pretty formidable challenge and came up a winner. Well done.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Thank you, sir!

And wouldn't you know it, the darn thing is still in tune nearly 24 hours after restringing it! Woohoo!


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

Update...just dropped this little gal off at Stang Guitars as they are taking donations for Ft. Mac folks who are missing their guitars. She has served me well and provided a great learning experience and hopefully she can do somebody else some good as well.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Rudder Bug said:


> Gorilla Glue maybe?


Noooo!


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

johnnyshaka said:


> I'm going to try wood glue first and see how that goes.


Unless you use hot hide glue or fish glue you have one chance to get it right. Any other glues will contaminate the joint and subsequent attempts will absolutely fail.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

dradlin said:


> Unless you use hot hide glue or fish glue you have one chance to get it right. Any other glues will contaminate the joint and subsequent attempts will absolutely fail.


I guess I'm THAT good because it has held up for over a year and has been used daily. 

That's good to know about the other glue options, though, thanks!


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## alwaysflat (Feb 14, 2016)

Sorry for reviving an old thread. I just tried some Titebond III for gluing a crack in a neck. Instead of diluting it, I heated it in a small tube dunked in a mug of boiled water for 5 mins. It ran out pretty thin and was super easy to get inside the crack. I had tried diluted AR before and was successful too, but have just a little better confidence with the heated glue.


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