# Pedals that make a Marshall sound like a Fender.



## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

It seems that there are plenty of pedals that make a Fender sound like a Marshall.

It seems that there are plenty of pedals that make a Fender sound like a different Fender.

It seems that there are plenty of pedals that make a Marshall sound like a different Marshall.

...

What are the pedals that I could plug into a Marshall clean channel that could work to make a Marshall sound like a Fender?

I have the True North Tweed Drive and it is phenomenal. Everyone needs one of these on their board.

...

What would make a Marshall sound like a Fender Blackface (both with the scooped sparkly cleans and with a Fender-y Blackface overdrive?

I've looked I to the Wampler Black '65 that is discontinued, but it seems that it was voiced to make a Fender sound like a different Fender, although I've never played that pedal so I could be very incorrect.


I was also thinking about the Barber Gain Changer SR.

Any others that should be on the list?

...

P.S. I know this is a very generally stated question and that is inherently problematic when trying to provide answers, but maybe it'll generate some discussion.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Wampler Tweed 57 might work..


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

Wardo said:


> Wampler Tweed 57 might work..


Thank you for the suggestion.

I did look into the Wampler Tweed '57, but I have the True North Tweed Drive that gets me there.

I was more looking for Blackface type cleans and overdrive.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

If you load up the Duncan Tonestack Calculator, and switch back and forth between the Fender and Marshall tonestacks, this is what you see (all controls set to "the middle"). Makes you wonder if the "magic pedal" isn't simply a switch to change a few component values in the tonestack, or maybe an EQ pedal. I would be remiss, however, in not noting the difference in signal level between the two. The Marshall clearly has the hotter signal at the tonestack, in addition to simply a different curve.


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

mhammer said:


> If you load up the Duncan Tonestack Calculator, and switch back and forth between the Fender and Marshall tonestacks, this is what you see (all controls set to "the middle"). Makes you wonder if the "magic pedal" isn't simply a switch to change a few component values in the tonestack, or maybe an EQ pedal. I would be remiss, however, in not noting the difference in signal level between the two. The Marshall clearly has the hotter signal at the tonestack, in addition to simply a different curve.


Yes. Exactly my thoughts.

I think the pedal would have to change the Marshall EQ (scoop the mids, add a bunch of bass and a bit of treble) and at the same time somehow give the illusion of more headroom (like an under drive maybe?).


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

reckless toboggan said:


> Yes. Exactly my thoughts.
> 
> I think the pedal would have to change the Marshall EQ (scoop the mids, add a bunch of bass and a bit of treble) and at the same time somehow give the illusion of more headroom (like an under drive maybe?).


My first thought was some sort of fixed filter-bank, somewhat like a cab-sim, with some attenuation. But then, one assumes that you'd be using some sort of tone-control setting for your desired "Marshall" tone, and aiming for some desired "Fender" tone setting. I suggest playing with the tonestack calculator, putting in your preferred Marshall tone-knob settings, as well as your preferred Fender settings (on whatever amp circuit and values you treat as your benchmark) and then comparing the frequency response curves to determine what you need to either add or carve away.

It may be that all you need is a buffered Fender tonestack in a box, with the "right" component values. It could either be preset with trimmers, or a 4-knobber with panel-mount controls. Take a look at the runoffgroove "Tonemender" circuit. Tonemender


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

mhammer said:


> My first thought was some sort of fixed filter-bank, somewhat like a cab-sim, with some attenuation. But then, one assumes that you'd be using some sort of tone-control setting for your desired "Marshall" tone, and aiming for some desired "Fender" tone setting. I suggest playing with the tonestack calculator, putting in your preferred Marshall tone-knob settings, as well as your preferred Fender settings (on whatever amp circuit and values you treat as your benchmark) and then comparing the frequency response curves to determine what you need to either add or carve away.
> 
> It may be that all you need is a buffered Fender tonestack in a box, with the "right" component values. It could either be preset with trimmers, or a 4-knobber with panel-mount controls. Take a look at the runoffgroove "Tonemender" circuit. Tonemender


That Tone Mender looks like it's what I'm after. I understand EQ curves etc.. but I know absolutely zero about how the actual circuit diagrams read or how the circuits work. I don't know how to parameterize the tone stack calculator to specific models of the different amps.

Is there anyone who makes that Tone Mender circuit in a pedal?


If there was a Fender Tone Stack in a Box, would I just run that to the effects return of my Marshall so that I was only using the power section (to remove the effect of the Marshall tone stack)? I think that would get me the cleans.

But then if it was only the Fender tone stack going into the power section of the amp, I wouldn't have the Fender pre-amp gain stage for overdrive sounds?

Obviously I'm no rocket surgeon.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

/thread


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

vadsy said:


> /thread


There is so much that's amazing about that video. I watched it twice.


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

reckless toboggan said:


> If there was a Fender Tone Stack in a Box, would I just run that to the effects return of my Marshall so that I was only using the power section (to remove the effect of the Marshall tone stack)? I think that would get me the cleans.
> 
> But then if it was only the Fender tone stack going into the power section of the amp, I wouldn't have the Fender pre-amp gain stage for overdrive sounds?
> 
> Obviously I'm no rocket surgeon.


So maybe a Wampler Black '65 direct into the effects return will get me there?


Although I'd like to run the pedal into the front end if the Marshall, maybe the less complex solution is to just run the Fender-y pedal into the FX return?

That way I'm only dealing with the differences between the el34s and the 6L6/6V6s, which might not be as noticable or impactful on the tone?


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

The Catalinbread Formula 55 might be another contender, but again, I think it may have been designed to make your Fender Deluxe or Twin set at low volumes to sound like a cranked version of themselves...and, therefore, not designed to compensate for the Marshall EQ to make the Marshall sound like a Fender.

?


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

Hmmmm.












Or maybe Boss GE7 could do the same thing?


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

reckless toboggan said:


> It seems that there are plenty of pedals that make a Fender sound like a Marshall.
> 
> It seems that there are plenty of pedals that make a Fender sound like a different Fender.
> 
> ...


I think the challenge is that it is much easier to add a ton of mids in front of a mid scooped amp, than it is to remove so much mid content that a mid-heavy Marshall would come out scooped. 

I would think the best way would be an EQ in an effects loop to dump the excess mids after the amps tonestack.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Giggity


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

cboutilier said:


> I think the challenge is that it is much easier to add a ton of mids in front of a mid scooped amp, than it is to remove so much mid content that a mid-heavy Marshall would come out scooped.
> 
> I would think the best way would be an EQ in an effects loop to dump the excess mids after the amps tonestack.


I agree.

I really do prefer Marshall amps, but I'd like to be able to get Fender tone for that 5% of the time when I want to remind myself why I prefer Marshall amps.






RBlakeney said:


> Giggity


Berry, berry intredasting.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

reckless toboggan said:


> Berry, berry intredasting.


Seems to be able to brighten things up enough to be passable.


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## CathodeRay (Jan 12, 2018)

vadsy said:


>


Thanks a lot, now I'm hooked on Johnny DeMarco videos. _"But wait - there's more!"_


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## nbs2005 (Mar 21, 2018)

You could try the Tech21 Blonde/Joyo American Sound for pretty cheap (I have a Joyo I'm not using you could borrow and/or buy). That's the limit of my knowledge here.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

reckless toboggan said:


> I agree.
> 
> I really do prefer Marshall amps, but I'd like to be able to get Fender tone for that 5% of the time when I want to remind myself why I prefer Marshall amps.


Just get a fender


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

CathodeRay said:


> Thanks a lot, now I'm hooked on Johnny DeMarco videos. _"But wait - there's more!"_


special kinda guy that I'm not sure if I should take seriously or with multiple grains of kosher salt



Budda said:


> Just get a fender


I wanted to say this from the beginning. All these pedals named after amps are just tubescreamer snake oil anyways.


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

Budda said:


> Just get a fender





vadsy said:


> I wanted to say this from the beginning.


I had Blues Jr ages ago and a small solid state Frontman 15 for practice. Also, in my longest running band, my bandmate had a Princeton Reverb and then got a Twin.


What everybody called "the sparkling highs" stabbed me in my young and sensitive ears in a very unpleasant way, and I really didn't like the overdrive sound either. I really couldn't understand how my bandmate could play through his without his ears bleeding. I played though his amps several times trying to figure out why everyone kept telling me that Fenders were so amazing, and why I didn't like them. Also, I absolutely hated the volume change from 0 to 0.5 which basically took the Fenders from silent to full volume with the 0.6 to 10 or 12 being relatively the same as 0.5 (not really, but you get my point).

Although the new Blues Jr. IV is supposed to be easier to use in terms of volume control.


However, now in my old age my ears have dulled and I have tinnitus stabbing me in the ears anyway, so I figured maybe it was time time to re-explore/re-assess Fender. Which is why the preference for a pedal rather than an expensive amp.

Right now the only Fender I kind of like is the Bassbreaker, but I'm pretty sure that's basically a Marshall in Fender's clothing, and I already have Marshalls (absolutely love Marshall overdrive/crunch/distortion sounds and I'm one of those weirdos who actually likes the Marshall cleans).





vadsy said:


> All these pedals named after amps are just tubescreamer snake oil anyways.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Go try some amps.

Also dont use the bright switch and keep the treble down.


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

Budda said:


> Go try some amps.
> 
> Also dont use the bright switch and keep the treble down.


I've played a couple, the Bassbreaker and the Super Champ x2.

This Blues Jr IV is quite fetching, but I haven't played it, given my loathing of the Blues Jr I had previously.

Fender Musical Instruments - Blues Junior Lacquered Tweed with Jensen C12-N










Although, I'd prefer a blackface type sound (rather than a tweed sound, which I feel I can get close enough to on my current amps and pedals).


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

nbs2005 said:


> You could try the Tech21 Blonde/Joyo American Sound for pretty cheap (I have a Joyo I'm not using you could borrow and/or buy). That's the limit of my knowledge here.


I'm looking more for a blackface sound.

I just found the Joyo Clean Glass and I'm watching some stuff now. So far, not too bad.


_Edit to add:_I understand better now what you're recommending and the Joyo American Sound is a pretty damn good approximation from what I can gather from the YouTube's, as is the AC Tone.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Just so you know, I have twice found actual 70s Fender amps for the price of a high end preamp pedal. 

If I were you, I'd be looking for a late 70s high wattage Fender amp that's been bastardized into a head cab. Get the real deal for 3-400 bucks.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Of course, the majority of Fender/Marshall combo's was a clean F tone and a crunchy or distorted M tone - not the other way around (clean Marshall and crunchy Fender). So most pedal makers concentrated on overdriving a clean Fender tone and shaping the EQ to get into Marshall territory. There's lots of versions of MIAB to accomplish this.

It is impossible to take a distorted M tone and clean it up and shape the EQ for a clean F tone. Undistorting a signal is impossible unless you reduce gain early on and increase output level (to make up for the lower preamp signal level), something a simple pedal can't do. Which is why no pedal companies have pursued this angle. 

Modifying a clean M tone to something in the ballpark of a clean F tone is probably possible with some EQ'ing but again, not enough players looking for this, IMO. And the distortion characteristics of either amp is different enough that this clean solution probably wouldn't translate into a good 'distorted M to distorted F tone' compromise (which ultimately all xIAB pedals are).


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

High/Deaf said:


> Of course, the majority of Fender/Marshall combo's was a clean F tone and a crunchy or distorted M tone - not the other way around (clean Marshall and crunchy Fender). So most pedal makers concentrated on overdriving a clean Fender tone and shaping the EQ to get into Marshall territory. There's lots of versions of MIAB to accomplish this.
> 
> It is impossible to take a distorted M tone and clean it up and shape the EQ for a clean F tone. Undistorting a signal is impossible unless you reduce gain early on and increase output level (to make up for the lower preamp signal level), something a simple pedal can't do. Which is why no pedal companies have pursued this angle.
> 
> Modifying a clean M tone to something in the ballpark of a clean F tone is probably possible with some EQ'ing but again, not enough players looking for this, IMO. And the distortion characteristics of either amp is different enough that this clean solution probably wouldn't translate into a good 'distorted M to distorted F tone' compromise (which ultimately all xIAB pedals are).


The only one I can think of that used a Marshall for cleans, and a Fender for overdriving would be Stevie Ray Vaughan when he was using his Major or Club & Country alongside his Vibroverb instead of his Super Reverb or Dumble.


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

High/Deaf said:


> Undistorting a signal is impossible unless you reduce gain early on and increase output level (to make up for the lower preamp signal level), something a simple pedal can't do. Which is why no pedal companies have pursued this angle.


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## Hear Ye Music (Dec 19, 2012)

The Lovepedal Super Six purportedly does that.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Not quite as high-tech, but this has worked for decades for a lot of players.










Of course, it doesn't also tailor the EQ to compensate for the reduced level, but hey, it's already there.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Kinda sorta used to do it with a boost and single coils or boost and EQ, which I guess is what folks are saying here. I always felt like the type and number of speakers figured into it a lot too, but that may have been because we simply didn't have many choices back in the day before pedals took over the world. At a point in my hearing I gravitated to the Traynor YCV amps as a common denominator (as opposed to a compromise) amp...not sure if everyone hears them that way.

Then again I might be out to lunch.


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

Aside from EQ...

A decent tremolo and reverb pedal will likely enhance the Fender illusion.


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

tonewoody said:


> Aside from EQ...
> 
> A decent tremolo and reverb pedal will likely enhance the Fender illusion.


True.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

tonewoody said:


> Aside from EQ...
> 
> A decent tremolo and reverb pedal will likely enhance the Fender illusion.














As doubles as a great cheap Flint.


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