# Question on HST



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

uumm, so if and when Ontario goes to the HST system... does that mean that items that were formally GST only now are taxed at the harmonized rate? Some of you other provinces already have this system. How does it work on those services that were once only charged GST?


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> uumm, so if and when Ontario goes to the HST system... does that mean that items that were formally GST only now are taxed at the harmonized rate? Some of you other provinces already have this system. How does it work on those services that were once only charged GST?


Yep, that's exactly how it works. So... items such as contractors or skilled trades for example. Previously you only paid your plumber GST. Now you will pay him HST at the full rate.

This is one of the reasons the HST is so controversial and unpopular among taxpayers.


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2009)

Oh man! Thanks for asking this question. I was wondering the same thing myself. I figured this had to be a win situation for the provincial government to do this.

FACK! So do we get back that provincial portion at some point? Like when we file our taxes, if we keep our reciepts, we can get back the PST on a service? Or is the provincial government now taxing services where before they had not?


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

iaresee said:


> Oh man! Thanks for asking this question. I was wondering the same thing myself. I figured this had to be a win situation for the provincial government to do this.


If it's like the situation in BC, it's a double win for the government. The Feds dangled a $1.6 billion carrot in front of the BC govt. to entice them to adopt the HST here.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

From what I have seen on the news on this from other provinces it is bad...

It is a matter of "bend over a little farther we ain't all the way up yet." Yes, it means if the Feds decide to put GST on it you will also pay PST. It means if the Province decides to put PST on it, you will also pay GST. 

No, you don't get it back. 
No, you don't get out of it. 
No, you wont get quarterly PST-checks. 
Yes, you will pay more.
Yes, the government will miss-spend it, sweep it under the rug, deny anything was done wrong, shuffle its members to confuse the situation, and then cause some other big crisis to take our minds off it, then happily go play a second round of golf.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Here is a pretty simple overview of the tax. Yes, services such as your tanning salon will now have to charge HST.



> Generally, the new HST will apply to the provision of goods and services in the same manner as GST currently applies. That is, property and services that are currently subject to the 5% GST will now be subject to the 13% HST (subject to full point-of-sale rebates for books; children’s apparel, car seats, diapers; and hygiene products). The Ontario HST is expected to be substantially similar to the HST that was introduced in Newfoundland, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick in 1997.
> 
> For those businesses which are currently permitted to claim input tax credits in respect of GST paid on their expenses, the HST will represent a significant cost savings over the existing RST; no credit was available for RST paid on taxable goods and services, whereas a full input tax credit will now be available for HST paid on taxable goods and services, subject to the temporary restrictions discussed below.
> 
> ...


Also:


> The Ontario Government is giving a Ontario HST rebate of $1,000 per family to offset the new tax burde


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

So for a business owner it would appear that you can claim the whole HST amount where as before you could claim only the GST portion on goods and service purchased for your business. But in the end, the average consumer gets shafted with an additional hefty tax on a service that was formally charged only GST. I get it now.

Unpopular? I would say so.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I thought I heard there would be a rebate for lower income earners for the first year to ease the HST in.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

VERY MUCH un-popular.

I had not heard of the 1000 dollar buy off. Not surprised, just not heard of it previously.

We were shafted to begin with by having to have the GST. It was a cash cow for the government and still is today. Adding PST onto it just adds insult to injury.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

I don't know how good it is for business? Currently, I am PST exempt with my manufacturing company so I am not using my cash flow to pay tax up front.

Another big kick in the ass to the consumer is you will be taxed a full 13% on buying a house $500,000 and over. Anything below is exempt from the tax.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

ne1roc said:


> I don't know how good it is for business? Currently, I am PST exempt with my manufacturing company so I am not using my cash flow to pay tax up front.
> 
> Another big kick in the ass to the consumer is you will be taxed a full 13% on buying a house $500,000 and over. Anything below is exempt from the tax.


Well that would leave me out of the house tax for sure


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...taxes are bad. everything should be free. or, at least paid for by the other guy.

you're welcome!

:smile:


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

Not to be *too* political, but Dalton McGuinty and his lot can eat my shorts. Let the people vote on this POS tax scheme. The Ontario tax payer has been put through enough. At what point do we tell them to #$%off?

Shawn


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

david henman said:


> ...taxes are bad. everything should be free. or, at least paid for by the other guy.
> 
> you're welcome!
> 
> :smile:


 silly! Without the taxes how would they pay of the board from Hydro or the board from eHealth gosh hwopv


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2009)

So, umm, how do we stop it? I feel like we get 10 seconds of opinion every 4 years in this country when we're in the voting both and the rest of the time the suits do whatever they like.


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

Rugburn said:


> Not to be *too* political, but Dalton McGuinty and his lot can eat my shorts. Let the people vote on this POS tax scheme. The Ontario tax payer has been put through enough. At what point do we tell them to #$%off?
> 
> Shawn


Amen, brother. :smile:


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

iaresee said:


> So, umm, how do we stop it? I feel like we get 10 seconds of opinion every 4 years in this country when we're in the voting both and the rest of the time the suits do whatever they like.


Contact your MPP! Yeah right - I have sent my MPP emails and have heard nothing back. I'll be sure to vote for someone else next time (someone else who can ignore my emails!). In my case, its this joker:

Norman W. Sterling
Carleton-Mississippi Mills, 
Progressive Conservative


I've had good email response from my municipally elected representative, but nothing from my provincial counterpart.


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2009)

bagpipe said:


> Contact your MPP! Yeah right - I have sent my MPP emails and have heard nothing back. I'll be sure to vote for someone else next time (someone else who can ignore my emails!). In my case, its this joker:
> 
> Norman W. Sterling
> Carleton-Mississippi Mills,
> ...


Hmm. That's odd. I've always gotten good responses from Norm Sterling. I'll send him a letter right away!


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I dont want to break one of our big rules around here on politics. But if we keep strictly to the tax question I think it's borderline. To be honest, I just wanted to know how it was going to work, I had no idea other than suspecting that it was going to end up costing us all more.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I dont want to break one of our big rules around here on politics. But if we keep strictly to the tax question I think it's borderline. To be honest, I just wanted to know how it was going to work, I had no idea other than suspecting that it was going to end up costing us all more.


 Thats why I pointed my fingers at all politicians at all levels for being equally "politicians" which really is spelt with four letters kkjuw


However, yes, it works by costing everyone more. Aside from the aforementioned possible exemptions (gahh I would not want to face needing a cash till that did automatic reimbursements after first applying this tax >.<) and a buy out, we all get to look forward to having less money kqoct


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Rugburn said:


> Not to be *too* political, but Dalton McGuinty and his lot can eat my shorts. Let the people vote on this POS tax scheme. The Ontario tax payer has been put through enough. At what point do we tell them to #$%off?
> 
> Shawn


funny, i'm not even canadian and this was my very first thought on learning of the hst. if someone as clueless as me sees it, there's no excuse for any (ummm what do you guys call your selves?) ontarionans? to accept it. 
money grab, pure and simple.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

The Federal government is currently dangling that same HST carrot in front of the Manitoba provincial government. So far our new premier has been cool to the idea however I don't think he's explicitly said it won't happen. Trying not to get political here, but I think Manitoba is going to 'wait and see' what the consequences are in Ontario when the voters go to the polls next year.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...the big question, for me, is how do we stop the whining. its annoying, and traumatizes my cats.

there have always been taxes and, hopefully, always will be. similarly, there has always been a mob mentality that whines non-stop, and calls every tax a "cash grab". has anyone noticed that its _always_ a bad time to raise taxes?

don't believe me? read this thread, or listen to am talk radio.

call me an anarchist, but i am more than happy to pay my taxes.

i am not happy when governments squander those taxes on wars, ridiculous consulting fees or factor grants to artists who are already wealthy and successful, but that's the subject of an entirely different thread.

-dh


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...the big question, for me, is how do we stop the whining. its annoying, and traumatizes my cats.
> 
> there have always been taxes and, hopefully, always will be. similarly, there has always been a mob mentality that whines non-stop, and calls every tax a "cash grab". has anyone noticed that its _always_ a bad time to raise taxes?
> 
> ...


So........I guess you report your cash paid gig earnings on your T4 eh?


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

ne1roc said:


> So........I guess you report your cash paid gig earnings on your T4 eh?


...every penny.

-dh


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...every penny.
> 
> -dh


I wish I could believe that.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

ne1roc said:


> I wish I could believe that.



...why would i lie?

you're welcome, anytime, to drop by and examine my tax receipts. i have them going back at least a dozen years. or, i can give you the phone number of my tax guy.

why do you ask?

do you claim all of you're income?

-dh


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...why would i lie?
> 
> you're welcome, anytime, to drop by and examine my tax receipts. i have them going back at least a dozen years. or, i can give you the phone number of my tax guy.
> 
> ...


Every penny.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

david henman said:


> ...the big question, for me, is how do we stop the whining. its annoying, and traumatizes my cats.
> 
> there have always been taxes and, hopefully, always will be. similarly, there has always been a mob mentality that whines non-stop, and calls every tax a "cash grab". has anyone noticed that its _always_ a bad time to raise taxes?
> 
> ...


I would normally agree with this, but this move by the Ontario gov. is a scheme to cover up myriad over-expenditures and general mismanagement. That this seems like a "good idea" on the tails of a recession, Swine Flu and auto sector bailouts, is a little too obvious for me and many other Ontarians. Their resistance to even discuss consulting Ontario's voters on this is pretty concerning. Make a case for this tax. Explain to the middle-class and the working class why they have to disproportionately compensate the government's budget. That there's already a plan in place to reimburse a $1000 to poor families says plenty.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

Rugburn said:


> That there's already a plan in place to reimburse a $1000 to poor families says plenty.


Unfortunately, that is not part of the BC "plan". All we are getting is endless government rhetoric about how wonderful the HST is for us.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Appreciate all the answers to my questions on this one boy's. I have to slap my own wrist now for creating it. After the initial expalanations it appears it can only go into a political debate. My fault. Sorry.


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