# Winter Tires vs. All Weather Tires?



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

I'm putting tires on the car this weekend and was planning to go with winter tires, but am also considering all weather tires (not all season tires, but all weather tires). Does anyone have any experience with them? 

They offer the benefit of being able to be used all year round so no figuring out where to store tires, no need to have them swapped over each fall/spring, etc. But are they as good for winter driving as winter tires? Or are they close enough to being as good that someone driving in an urban area in southern Ontario wouldn't notice the difference?

Any comments from those who have used all weather tires would be appreciated.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I put Cooper A/TWs on my SUV last fall, they were a lot better than the Dick Cepeks that were on there.
Yes, I run them all year, but I don't think that anything is superior to actual winter tires on ice.

They're snow rated with plenty of siping. I like them.

Cooper Discoverer A/TW All-Terrain Winter Tire - Consumer Reports News


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I have never heard of all weather tires and I have never seen those words on any tire website.

All Season
Winter
Summer


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I have some kind of heavy tread hankooks on my f150. They are not a winter tire but do well in heavy snow storms because of the tread. You can’t compare them to all season car tires though because they have a big ass tractor tread. All season care tires are crap in any season.

I have a set of blizzack ice tires for winter and the main benefit with them is that the soft compound provides more grip, control and stopping power in cold, wet slop conditions like we get in the GTA.

That’s the main benefit. Both types are about the same in deep snow but the soft ice tire compound works better in winter crap than the harder compound in the summer / all season tire. However, the soft compound is made for cold weather so once it gets to about 10C you have to go easy on them. Leaving them on in the spring will wear them out fast.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Guncho said:


> I have never heard of all weather tires and I have never seen those words on any tire website.
> 
> All Season
> Winter
> Summer


Been around for years. Softer than all season,. harder than winter,. sort of a mix in between for people who just want one set for the whole year. They won't last as long as all season but longer than a winter set being used in the summer time.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Guncho said:


> I have never heard of all weather tires and I have never seen those words on any tire website.
> 
> All Season
> Winter
> Summer


As mentioned above, they have been around for years.

They are basically a winter type tire that can also handle the heat of the summers and can thus be left on all year. 

All-weather vs All-season vs Winter Tires - Kal Tire


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## dmc69 (Jan 20, 2011)

I'm assuming you won't get a winter tire discount on insurance if you use all weather tires though.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

dmc69 said:


> I'm assuming you won't get a winter tire discount on insurance if you use all weather tires though.



They have the same winter rating as winter tires, but I would check with my insurance broker.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Ok if you stay in the city. Good but not as good as a true winter tire. Possibly better than some winter tires as there's a real variety of grades. I'd run them if I didn't do so much rural driving


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Any tool that claims to do multiple things do none of them great. Winter tires are made from a softer compound. That and the tread pattern make them do one thing, work well in the winter. I would recommend going with different tires for summer and winter. I also like each set on their own rims. On my own car I have winter tires on the stock rim that are narrower than stock and a set of nicer rims with summer tires that are wider than stock. Both are sized very close in diameter to the stock size to keep computers in the car happy.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I've tried all weather/season tires on several vehicles from a Plymouth minivan to Rav4s, half ton Dodge to a Bronco II. They were fine for three seasons but none were up to winter driving. Our current Rav4 and Matrix just got their snow tires on for this winter. In the long run, it's not any more expensive for us to keep two sets of tires on rims, the miles driven remains the same.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

When i was young, i used to run mud and snow tires all year long and did not know the difference. Having said that, when i bought my two wheel drive Element 6 years ago, it had mud and snow tires on. On the same day, we had a bad snowfall and i could not get up the hill to our house.I left the car at our garage down the road and he put some snows on. Four hours later, went up the hill no issues.The roads where not plowed and from then on i was a believer.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

I’ll be able to tell you later this year. I have a set of Nokian WRG3s being installed at the end of the month on a four wheel drive.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

For years, I had thought that the difference between winter and all-weather tires was simply tread design. In more recent years, I learned that the real difference is in the composition of the rubber and its ability to remain pliable at colder temperatures. Winter tires remain pliable at lower temperature, improving their grip on the road.

All of that is to say that the value of having two sets of seasonally-appropriate tires would depend on a) where you live, and b) how much driving, and what type, you do during winter months. Winter tires would be of less use/criticality if one lived in the BC lower mainland, or some of the more temperate parts of southern Ontario or Nova Scotia. The so-called "905" is a judgment call. Close enough to Lake Ontario that there isn't much snow and the temperature is warmer than Ottawa or Bracebridge, but the traffic intensity recommends assurances of better grip where feasible. If one's driving is primarily local lower-speed to the grocery store in Burlington or Pickering, I would personally feel comfortable with only all-weather. If one spends more time at higher speed on any of the various 4xx-series thoroughfares in the region, then one wants better grip on those days when, despite the absence of snow, sub-zero temperatures stiffen non-winter tires. After all, being able to steer out of the way of some doofus on the 400 showing off their "skills" is not only a function of one's own reflexes. The vehicle has to respond appropriately; right down to its tires.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

I have Continental DWS-06 on my car, DWS meaning Dry, Wet, Snow. Their ability is mostly a function of tread depth but they are a W rated tire. Regardless, I run dedicated winters and just replaced worn out Dunlop WinterContacts with Hankook Winter iPike RS. If I was in GTA/Southern Ontario, I think an All-Weather tire should be sufficient for all but a few exception days. The biggest issue is that normally those exception days are the ones you really need to be somewhere of course.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

mhammer said:


> For years, I had thought that the difference between winter and all-weather tires was simply tread design. In more recent years, I learned that the real difference is in the composition of the rubber and its ability to remain pliable at colder temperatures. Winter tires remain pliable at lower temperature, improving their grip on the road.
> 
> All of that is to say that the value of having two sets of seasonally-appropriate tires would depend on a) where you live, and b) how much driving, and what type, you do during winter months. Winter tires would be of less use/criticality if one lived in the BC lower mainland, or some of the more temperate parts of southern Ontario or Nova Scotia. The so-called "905" is a judgment call. Close enough to Lake Ontario that there isn't much snow and the temperature is warmer than Ottawa or Bracebridge, but the traffic intensity recommends assurances of better grip where feasible. If one's driving is primarily local lower-speed to the grocery store in Burlington or Pickering, I would personally feel comfortable with only all-weather. If one spends more time at higher speed on any of the various 4xx-series thoroughfares in the region, then one wants better grip on those days when, despite the absence of snow, sub-zero temperatures stiffen non-winter tires. After all, being able to steer out of the way of some doofus on the 400 showing off their "skills" is not only a function of one's own reflexes. The vehicle has to respond appropriately; right down to its tires.


Problem with having grippy winter tires is that you will always stop faster that the impatient tailgater behind you. Rear-end collisions are now the most common winter accident.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Then I guess the choice is between rear-ending the person in front of you, because one's own tires have insufficient grip, and being rear-ended by the person behind you, eh?


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

It's not an option in Québec. It is mandatory to have winter tires from November 15 to April something.

An all season/weather tire might just work for you for the first winter, but by the time you went through 3 other seasons with it, it will be too worn to go through another winter. So, you don't gain anything.
Here on the mountainous dirt road where I live, a good winter tire isn't doing the job on its 3rd winter. So I sell them for cheap and get new ones. That is, if you don't want to visit the ditch too often.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> Problem with having grippy winter tires is that you will always stop faster that the impatient tailgater behind you. Rear-end collisions are now the most common winter accident.


id call that a quality problem to have. you cant control what other people do.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

mhammer said:


> Then I guess the choice is between rear-ending the person in front of you, because one's own tires have insufficient grip, and being rear-ended by the person behind you, eh?


Not really. You have to leave extra room in front of you so you can stop more gradually. You not only have to drive your own car, sometimes you have to drive everyone else’s cars around you.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2017)

Whenever I buy a car, the first thing I do is pick up a shop manual and snows mounted on rims for all four corners.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> Not really. You have to leave extra room in front of you so you can stop more gradually. You not only have to drive your own car, sometimes you have to drive everyone else’s cars around you.


I generally do; precisely as I learned so many years ago, and for all the reasons you cite. The challenge on major commuter thoroughfares, though, is that other drivers conceive of that as not being a "safe distance" but an opening they can take advantage of. As such, "driving everyone else's car" tends to consist of driving a little closer than you'd really like to, or recommend, just to deter others from inserting themselves and reducing that distance even further.

Either way, it's _good_ to be able to stop when you want to and need to.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

mhammer said:


> Either way, it's _good_ to be able to stop when you want to and need to.


Which is why you are almost always considered at fault if you rear end someone, with only few exceptions to that, but agree if you leave a space, someone will inevitably try and fill it.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Guncho said:


> I have never heard of all weather tires and I have never seen those words on any tire website.
> 
> All Season
> Winter
> Summer


You are correct.
"All Weather" is a marketing buzz word/phrase used exclusively by Kal Tire. They don't exist any where else in the tire world. 

There are other snow-flake rated tires that can be left on all year however that are not called "All Weather" (not sold by Kal Tire)


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Mooh said:


> I've tried all weather/season tires on several vehicles



All weather tires and all season tires aren't the same thing. Or are you saying that you tried both all weather and all season tires?


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

mhammer said:


> For years, I had thought that the difference between winter and all-weather tires was simply tread design. In more recent years, I learned that the real difference is in the composition of the rubber and its ability to remain pliable at colder temperatures. Winter tires remain pliable at lower temperature, improving their grip on the road.
> 
> All of that is to say that the value of having two sets of seasonally-appropriate tires would depend on a) where you live, and b) how much driving, and what type, you do during winter months. Winter tires would be of less use/criticality if one lived in the BC lower mainland, or some of the more temperate parts of southern Ontario or Nova Scotia. The so-called "905" is a judgment call. Close enough to Lake Ontario that there isn't much snow and the temperature is warmer than Ottawa or Bracebridge, but the traffic intensity recommends assurances of better grip where feasible. If one's driving is primarily local lower-speed to the grocery store in Burlington or Pickering, I would personally feel comfortable with only all-weather. If one spends more time at higher speed on any of the various 4xx-series thoroughfares in the region, then one wants better grip on those days when, despite the absence of snow, sub-zero temperatures stiffen non-winter tires. After all, being able to steer out of the way of some doofus on the 400 showing off their "skills" is not only a function of one's own reflexes. The vehicle has to respond appropriately; right down to its tires.



I do both local driving as well as some highway driving. But that varies - since the college I teach at has two campuses I teach at both. But I have no idea what my schedule will be during the winter term (the strike has made that even more uncertain) so I don't know if I will be teaching entirely at the closest campus (ten minutes from home), entirely at the further campus (about half an hour away on the highways), or a combination of the two.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Lincoln said:


> You are correct.
> "All Weather" is a marketing buzz word/phrase used exclusively by Kal Tire. They don't exist any where else in the tire world.
> 
> There are other snow-flake rated tires that can be left on all year however that are not called "All Weather" (not sold by Kal Tire)



Sorry, but you're wrong.

That isn't a term used exclusively by Kal Tire and it most certainly does exist elsewhere in the tire world. All weather tires are sold at places like Canadian Tire, etc.


Winter Tires vs. All Seasons vs. All Weather


Winter tires vs. all-weather tires - WHEELS.ca


http://driving.ca/auto-news/news/whats-the-difference-between-all-weather-and-all-season-tires


'All-weather' tires provide year-round performance


Are all-weather tires a good compromise?


All-weather tires vs. winter tires — what's the difference? | Toronto Star


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Well, apart from cost, I guess one can say winter tires are like chicken soup - they can't hurt. If one was doing only local driving, in a region whose winter temperatures generally hovered around zero, but did not extend very far below that point very often, then one could make a stronger case for not going to the expense of extra tires and rims (and the twice-yearly cost of changeover). But unless meets those criteria, the safe and cautious thing to do is spring the money for two sets. I figure all of us here are worth it.

As for all-weather versus all-season, this would seem to be a relatively recent innovation that I imagine has confused more than a few who haven't looked into it in any depth; merely assuming (as some have here, including myself) that "weather" and "season" refer to the same thing, with the "weather" prefix simply being another word for "season". Sometimes, manufacturers and organizations don't pick the best or clearest technical terms.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

mhammer said:


> I generally do; precisely as I learned so many years ago, and for all the reasons you cite. The challenge on major commuter thoroughfares, though, is that other drivers conceive of that as not being a "safe distance" but an opening they can take advantage of. As such, "driving everyone else's car" tends to consist of driving a little closer than you'd really like to, or recommend, just to deter others from inserting themselves and reducing that distance even further.
> 
> Either way, it's _good_ to be able to stop when you want to and need to.


I know. You try to leave a safe distance and you are rewarded by being pushed further and further back by those cutting in front. Can't win. Bring on the Robot Car Driving Overlords!


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Well, apart from cost, I guess one can say winter tires are like chicken soup - they can't hurt. If one was doing only local driving, in a region whose winter temperatures generally hovered around zero, but did not extend very far below that point very often, then one could make a stronger case for not going to the expense of extra tires and rims (and the twice-yearly cost of changeover). But unless meets those criteria, the safe and cautious thing to do is spring the money for two sets. I figure all of us here are worth it.



I would probably just have the winter tires mounted on my current rims.

I am leaning towards winter tires, but have to figure out where the hell I am going to store my all season tires for the next few months.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Lincoln said:


> You are correct.
> "All Weather" is a marketing buzz word/phrase used exclusively by Kal Tire. They don't exist any where else in the tire world.
> 
> There are other snow-flake rated tires that can be left on all year however that are not called "All Weather" (not sold by Kal Tire)


Not true. Go check the Nokian website and others, you'll find that somehow, you've been misled.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

colchar said:


> I would probably just have the winter tires mounted on my current rims.
> 
> I am leaning towards winter tires, but have to figure out where the hell I am going to store my all season tires for the next few months.


Some dealerships will your store your tires for you if you give them your tire business.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

colchar said:


> Sorry, but you're wrong.
> 
> That isn't a term used exclusively by Kal Tire and it most certainly does exist elsewhere in the tire world. All weather tires are sold at places like Canadian Tire, etc.
> 
> ...


No, I'm not wrong. And I don't see anything in your links that wasn't a paid for advertisement. You mentioned Canadian Tire but were unable to find a link to back it up? You've fallen into a marketing trap. Enjoy.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

1SweetRide said:


> Not true. Go check the Nokian website and others, you'll find that somehow, you've been misled.



Yep:


All-Weather tires / Passenger Cars / Nokian Tyres


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

At the end of it all, the "does everything" widget (tires, leatherman etc) will perform OK in many situations but will almost never be as good as the "specialized" widget. In some cases this is good enough. Dedicated winter tires in Windsor, probably overkill. All-season tires in Kenora not a chance. Aside from car damagethat, what price do you put on personal safety 

In the case of winter tires, given that even a small bender is can easily start at around $1K and go up quickly, I consider dedicated winter wheels as necessary insurance for my locale. Most new cars (at least locally) are being offered with winter wheels or can be purchased new or used for relatively inexpensive compared to even one accident. Even my car for which everything is overpriced, a complete set of winters is about $1500-1600 or the tires I just replaced a $900. Tires last 4-5 seasons (mileage dependent of course) and the wheels basically forever. If I change cares, there is pretty decent resale so the lifetime costs are not that bad.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Lincoln said:


> No, I'm not wrong.


Yes, you are.




> And I don't see anything in your links that wasn't a paid for advertisement.


Um, how about the _CTV News_ report that featured someone from _Consumer Reports_ (which never accepts a penny in advertising money so as to remain impartial)?

I also posted a link to Speedy in which they talk about the differences between the tires.




> You mentioned Canadian Tire but were unable to find a link to back it up?


If you had actually read anything that I posted you would have seen that a couple of them specifically mentioned Canadian Tire.

And if you want a link from them check the one provided below. You will clearly see in the description of the tire that they say "_The Hankook Optimo 4S is engineered to allow you to have only one set of tires year round - it's a summer tire and RAC approved winter tire in one._"

Hankook Optimo 4S | Canadian Tire




> You've fallen into a marketing trap.


No, I quite clearly haven't and others have provided evidence as well. Unfortunately, you were wrong but are unwilling to back off and admit that.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

It's like trolls are everywhere which is weird because every single one of you I've met have been outstanding.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Lincoln said:


> No, I'm not wrong. And I don't see anything in your links that wasn't a paid for advertisement. You mentioned Canadian Tire but were unable to find a link to back it up? You've fallen into a marketing trap. Enjoy.


I know Colchar already said this but is it so cold in Saskatchewan right now that all your neurons have gone to sleep in your head? I'm sure you're a great guy but you're coming off like a bit of a pompous you know what atm.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

In Lincoln's defense, the omnipresence of advertising masquerading as "news and information" does give many justifiable pause to wonder whether a given source IS simply trying to manipulate the reader into directing their consumer dollars, or is legitimate information.

I know our local newspaper uses a different font for the header on any such articles, but the difference between legitimate documentation and commercial deception, when it comes to the web, can be difficult to distinguish.

At some point, though, ya gotta simply accept some things at face value when there is enough consensus. If it was just one or two companies toutig the difference between all-season and all-weather, one might be understandably reluctant to accept it as something other than mere marketing. But once the distinction is made in enough places with no connection between them, that's another thing. In other words, Lincoln, YIELD. Suspicion, accepted. Denial, rejected.

Again, the technical term adopted by manufacturers (all weather) is a piss-poor term, of the sort that clearly leads to this kind of confusion and mistrust.

In 2006, a new policy in federal government hiring came into effect, referred to as "informal discussion". The mechanism was well thought out, since it would allow applicants to correct any errors made in processing their application (such as misunderstanding that their degree actually WAS in the area required , but simply termed something different at their university for the university's marketing purposes), rather than request an appeal at the very end and hold up hiring for a year. Having done the data collection on it, I can vouch for its effectiveness. But dammit, one of the absolute_ shittiest _technical terms ever devised. A significant number of employees who were not policy wonks thought that it referred to a quick chit-chat with the hiring manager in the hall, or a phone call to the HR advisor. So, one can't always count on people who come up with good policies or solid product innovations to call it by a name that renders everything clear. That's true whether we are talking government, tires, pedals, or amps.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

For the record. I live in Southern Ontario. About an hour north of London. I don't drive a lot or far usually. A couple of years ago I only had to blow out the driveway 3 times all year. I was still happy I had snow tires on that year. If you only "need" them once, it's worth it.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

All weather tires will *not* just last one season, that's a load of bull.
Second year on mine and they fine, no discernible wear.
Run winter tires all year, yes, one year is all that you'll get out of them.

The Coopers that I have say that there's a silica compound in the rubber.

I have a short jaunt on the highway to get to work and a good way on one to get to band practice.
Never had an issue. It could boil down to how you drive too.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Walnuts. We all need more nuts in our tires. Or so says Michelin.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Jim DaddyO said:


> If you only "need" them once, it's worth it.


That's pretty much what I think of it.

I never bought winter tires until maybe 4 years ago. I had snows in the 70s sometimes because they might have come with whatever piece of junk I was driving at the time but after that I never bothered with them until recently; always drove pickups and always got by and that includes many side road tours in the winter.

What got me into them lately was that I was in my friends truck a few years ago and he was flyin down snow covered back roads around Schomburg and had lots if grip for braking considering the conditions. So I asked him what he was using for tires and bought the same ones a week later. About 1200 all in and mounted on new 17" steelies.

So now I can fly down snow covered side roads too .. lol

But, as I mentioned before, they have a lot more grip in cold rain or slop snow which is most of what we get around the GTA now that the snow line done took out and moved north from highway 7 up to about Newmarket.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2017)

Wardo said:


> the snow line done took out and moved north from highway 7 up to about Newmarket.


Some say that Canada begins north of Davis Dr (Hwy 9).


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Some say that Canada begins north of Davis Dr (Hwy 9).


Yeah, that’d be about it or maybe 89.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

colchar said:


> Yes, you are.
> 
> 
> And if you want a link from them check the one provided below. You will clearly see in the description of the tire that they say "_The Hankook Optimo 4S is engineered to allow you to have only one set of tires year round - it's a summer tire and RAC approved winter tire in one._"
> ...


Hankook dropped that tire design many years ago. And no where in that link are the magic words "All Weather". If you are interested, Hankook replaced that design with a better one called the "Winter-i-Cept"

i*cept Evo 2 W320 - Hankook i*cept Evo 2 Tire | Hankook Canada

But you will never find the term "all weather" used by Hankook......or at least not yet anyway. 

Your links discuss winter tires that can be left on all year, no nowhere do they use the phrase "all weather" unless they are specifically referring to Nokian tires or a tire made by Nokian, or their dealers. 

However..... I see that Toyo has started using the term "all-weather" for their "Celsius" tire line.......so Yes, that makes me wrong. And I'll STFU now. 
All I was trying to say is there are winter tires on the market that can be left on all year and wear as long as any other tire that do not market themselves as "all-weather".


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Again, the technical term adopted by manufacturers (all weather) is a piss-poor term, of the sort that clearly leads to this kind of confusion and mistrust.


If by 'piss poor' you mean 'fucking terrible' then yeah, I agree.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

there was a good article on THE TRUTH ABOUT CARS about winter vs all season

after reading that, I've used dedicated winter tires

link:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tag/winter-tires/


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

colchar said:


> All weather tires and all season tires aren't the same thing. Or are you saying that you tried both all weather and all season tires?


Clarification: all season.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

bolero said:


> there was a good article on THE TRUTH ABOUT CARS about winter vs all season
> 
> after reading that, I've used dedicated winter tires
> 
> ...



Again, all season tires are not the same thing as all weather tires.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Lincoln said:


> Hankook dropped that tire design many years ago. And no where in that link are the magic words "All Weather". If you are interested, Hankook replaced that design with a better one called the "Winter-i-Cept"
> 
> i*cept Evo 2 W320 - Hankook i*cept Evo 2 Tire | Hankook Canada
> 
> ...










All weather tires explained | Toyo Tires Canada


OK Tire | All-Weather Tires


All Weather Tires - Tirecraft


All-Weather Tires | Integra Tire Canada


Why Buy all weather tires | Country Tire Automotive


Long-Term Tire Test: Toyo Celsius All Weather Tires | autoTRADER.ca


http://www.torontohonda.com/now-manufacturers-making-weather-tires/


http://www.chtoyota.com/country-hil...ason-tires-all-weather-tires-or-winter-tires/


Below is a link to info from the Ministry of Transportation in British Columbia. But I guess according to you they are simply schilling for Kal Tire.

https://www.tranbc.ca/2014/10/24/ho...pes-of-winter-tires-for-winter-driving-in-bc/



You claimed that 'all weather' was simply a marketing term used by Kal Tire but you've been proven wrong time and again in this thread, give it up already.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Insomuch as the difference between traditional winter and summer tires is primarily the pliability of the rubber used at different temperatures (with tread a notch down from that), this debate would appear to be basically a matter of materials science. That is, cleared up by some information about when such materials were developed, and the pliability-vs-temperature function of whatever was developed for use in all-weather tires. And since softer rubber is presumably more likely to wear at summer temperatures, a similar chart plotting wear-vs-temperature would be similarly helpful.

The matter would be resolved to everyone's satisfaction by data indicating that the material used for all-weather units remains pliable to sub-zero temperatures, but does not wear any faster than normal summer tires at 35-degree road temperatures.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I admit I've never heard of all weather tires before, but I'm intrigued by them as my summers are worn, I don't have any winters, and due to the age of the car I'd rather not go buy 2 sets of tires for a car I may only keep another 2-3yrs max.
I don't need maximum performance for either summer or winter as I stay home when the weather is really bad.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Diablo said:


> I admit I've never heard of all weather tires before, but I'm intrigued by them as my summers are worn, I don't have any winters, and due to the age of the car I'd rather not go buy 2 sets of tires for a car I may only keep another 2-3yrs max.
> I don't need maximum performance for either summer or winter as I stay home when the weather is really bad.


Budget about $1000.00 bucks unless you have 19" rims like me. Then budget about $1500.00.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Dammit I've got 19's as well lol.
At $1500 I may be better off buying all season and a used set of winter tires.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

1SweetRide said:


> Budget about $1000.00 bucks unless you have 19" rims like me. Then budget about $1500.00.


For reference, I just replaced my winter tires - $925 all-in for Hankook Winter iPike RS in 225/50/17 which are a mid level performance tire. You may be able to downsize from 19" depending on make and model to at least an 18" - I run 245/40/18s in the summer. Tirerack.com can give you possible compatible sizing. 

As far as thinking of not keeping your current vehicle more than 2-3 years, winters really only last 4'ish seasons. Unlike summers that you can run down to the wear bars, with winters there may still be a good amount of tread depth but once the siping wears, the traction deteriorates quickly. Winter wheels are also easy to resell at a reasonable price.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Diablo said:


> I admit I've never heard of all weather tires before, but I'm intrigued by them as my summers are worn, I don't have any winters, and due to the age of the car I'd rather not go buy 2 sets of tires for a car I may only keep another 2-3yrs max.
> I don't need maximum performance for either summer or winter as I stay home when the weather is really bad.


There are places that sell used tires. Bear in mind there are enough folks who have two minimally-worn sets of tires on rims, and their car either craps out for good or gets totalled, leaving two perfectly usable sets of tires that are good for the next 2-3 seasons you expect to have your car for. If you were looking to have something that handled 20,000km+/yr, I wouldn't suggest it, but as you described it, a set of tires that have maybe 5,000km on them would be decent enough.

Of course, if you drive a lot and in tricky situations, your life is clearly worth more than the $500+ you'd save.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

There will be snow.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

The ski magazines often have articles comparing four wheel/all wheel drive vehicles with all season tires versus front wheel drive vehicles with snow tires. Every time, the front wheel drive vehicles with snow tires wins out.

Winner..........................snow tires, hands down.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

they mentioned an interesting point: in addition to the cold optimized rubber, winter tires are designed to trap snow and use it to get more traction, on snow

I never thought about that. The snowman analogy makes sense


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

When I was on the road for work and traveling through some heavy snow areas I used to run Blizzaks and they were pretty good in the snow and ice, much better than anything else at the time. But since (semi retiring) and staying local for the most part I just keep the all seasons on the truck, provided you put some weight on the back tires they are fine. My truck is only 2WD as well. I have never gotten stuck anywhere


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Gonna need snows this morning as first snowfall of the season in Ottawa Gatineau valley.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2017)

GuitarsCanada said:


> My truck is only 2WD as well. I have never gotten stuck anywhere


I put patio stones over the axles and same as you, never got stuck.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> When I was on the road for work and traveling through some heavy snow areas I used to run Blizzaks and they were pretty good in the snow and ice, much better than anything else at the time. But since (semi retiring) and staying local for the most part I just keep the all seasons on the truck, provided you put some weight on the back tires they are fine. My truck is only 2WD as well. I have never gotten stuck anywhere


Yes, Scott, but you live in St. Catharines. I mostly ran all-season tires when I lived there too.

I can't get away with that in NB unless you are in the position to not have to drive while there is snow on the road.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

marcos said:


> Gonna need snows this morning as first snowfall of the season in Ottawa Gatineau valley.


Yep, all those people out there like they never seen snow before. Better Sunday than the Monday morning commute.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> When I was on the road for work and traveling through some heavy snow areas I used to run Blizzaks and they were pretty good in the snow and ice, much better than anything else at the time. But since (semi retiring) and staying local for the most part I just keep the all seasons on the truck, provided you put some weight on the back tires they are fine. My truck is only 2WD as well. *I have never gotten stuck anywhere*


I don't worry about getting stuck, I worry about controlled braking in safe distances.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Here in BC you actually need snow tires if there is heavy snow on Highways all weathers do not qualify for your insurance should you be in an accident you could/would receive most of the fault along with a fine from police for not having the proper equipment during the snow falls, so you get double the screw job.
So its new snow tires for my 4x4 jeep I went with Blizzaks


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## luker0 (Apr 18, 2017)

All weather tires a likely great for toronto or Vancouver areas of the country. Everywhere else that actually gets snow and ice you are far better off with winter tires. This is not about getting stuck at all and all about proper control of your 3000-6000 lb road weapon. 

If you don't believe me please come to our local Winter Driving schools (put on by the MCO) with your all season or all weaher tires and I will demonstrate for you.

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Ship of fools said:


> Here in BC you actually need snow tires if there is heavy snow on Highways all weathers do not qualify for your insurance should you be in an accident you could/would receive most of the fault along with a fine from police for not having the proper equipment during the snow falls, so you get double the screw job.



All weather tires have the same winter rating from Transport Canada as winter/snow tires. All season tires don't, all weather tires do.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

luker0 said:


> All weather tires a likely great for toronto or Vancouver areas of the country. Everywhere else that actually gets snow and ice you are far better off with winter tires. This is not about getting stuck at all and all about proper control of your 3000-6000 lb road weapon.
> 
> If you don't believe me please come to our local Winter Driving schools (put on by the MCO) with your all season or all weaher tires and I will demonstrate for you.



In demonstrations all weather tires perform far better than all season tires, and almost as well as winter tires.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

While I have no idea to whom this might apply here, SOME folks will make the decision to purchase whatever they consider to be applicable to all four seasons, based on the cost of purchasing 4 tires, as opposed to 8 tires and a second set of rims (plus whatever you get dinged for tire changeover twice a year). But, as some sites aptly note, wear is wear is wear. One can either buy a single set of all-purpose tires and wear them down 12 months a year, or purchase 2 sets of seasonally-specific tires and wear them each down half as much.

To my mind, the wisdom of doing the one vs. the other will depend on a number of factors. The same money, directed at a single set of tires can snag some pretty high-end units, which may provide what the user needs. On the other hand, as some here have noted, by virtue of where they tend to winter, tires whose tread is optimized for driving ON snow (as opposed to simply very cold pavement) might be the better solution. And again, Canada being "a land of enchanting contrasts", some of us have a LOT more winter to contend with than others.

All told, a set of all-weathers can be the sensible solution for some folks. Driving on them 12 months a year will wear them down twice as fast, but one is saving the cost of a second set of rims, and twice-yearly changeovers. Nothing to sneeze at.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2017)

Along with being prepared for winter, not just your vehicle, but the driver as well.
I've always felt that sometime within the first few years of acquiring one's license, there should be a mandatory winter driving test done. 
Unless the original test was done during winter conditions.
It's Canada, eh!?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It's always easy to forget driving skills/habits from the previous winter when it's been months back. When winter arrives, I always make a point of deliberately putting myself into skids when leaving our home, before I hit the main roads, just to resurrect the reflexes. I'm lucky that we live on a crescent with no through traffic, where such hijinks is possible. I feel bad for those whose initial exit from their parking spot takes them right into the thick of traffic where warm-ups are not feasible.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2017)

mhammer said:


> When winter arrives, I always make a point of deliberately putting myself into skids when leaving our home, before I hit the main roads, just to resurrect the reflexes.


My wife hates when I do this.
I try to explain the same reasons that you state.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

When consequences depend on a tenth of a second here or there, what one does in response to surprises has to reside in your muscle memory, and not in any list of strategies one consciously consults. Mentally consulting a list is going to add a half second more than one can afford. Many of the most important/critical things we can do in life rely on consciousness not playing a role.


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## luker0 (Apr 18, 2017)

This is the reason our club offers winter driving schools in the first place. You learn all about car control and accident avoidance in a safe environment.

Funny story, we had two brothers come out a few years back in almost identical cars. The way the course is taught is two people share an instructor throughout the day jumping in and out of each others cars. Younger brother had Blizzaks on his car. Older brother went and ordered a set at the end of the day. 

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I don't know how paid ads get connected with content, but as I read the post immediately above this, there is an ad at the top of the screen for Blizzaks at OK Tire.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

No matter what tires you use though--please--still drive for the conditions--I've seen more people with heavy duty winter ties have problems because they thought they were invincible...


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

mhammer said:


> I don't know how paid ads get connected with content, but as I read the post immediately above this, there is an ad at the top of the screen for Blizzaks at OK Tire.


Tracking cookies. It's unnerving. I don't get this on the Apple devices but I get it with Chrome on the PC.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> Tracking cookies. It's unnerving. I don't get this on the Apple devices but I get it with Chrome on the PC.


And I don't get any on GC - I think it has to do with paying the membership fee perhaps.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Adblocker works great.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

mhammer said:


> I don't know how paid ads get connected with content, but as I read the post immediately above this, there is an ad at the top of the screen for Blizzaks at OK Tire.



Use an ad blocker on your browser and you won't see any ads.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Are there ad blockers that do not eventually result in their own ads to purchase the product?

Actually, it wasn't so much the presence of AN ad, but rather the manner in which the specific ad was connected to the content of the posts. A tire company/sale is one thing. An ad for Blizzaks immediately above a post where somebody recommends Blizzaks is quite another.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

I use Adblock Plus add-on for Firefox. Pretty unobtrusive.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Are there ad blockers that do not eventually result in their own ads to purchase the product?
> 
> Actually, it wasn't so much the presence of AN ad, but rather the manner in which the specific ad was connected to the content of the posts. A tire company/sale is one thing. An ad for Blizzaks immediately above a post where somebody recommends Blizzaks is quite another.


I use adblock plus and ghostery, both great.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Maggs uses Winter Tires on her Juke. I just use All-seasons on the Jimmy - a little bit of slipping and sliding is a reminder that I'm piloting 2 tons of steel via a precariously small connection to the Earth.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Are these equivalent to all weather tires?
They're called all seasons, but have suggest they may be more versatile.

Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Those are what I run as summers. Good for some climates but as they wear the "S" goes first then "W". So snow f is only OK for a couple of 32ths. The garage I go to said they are OK and you can run them a little longer in the fall without panicking about a snowfall or two and put them on earlier in the spring, but they aren't a substitute for winters (in Ottawa anyways)


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Diablo said:


> Are these equivalent to all weather tires?
> They're called all seasons, but have suggest they may be more versatile.
> 
> Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06


I put a set of these on my wife's X3, they worked great but very similar to an all-season tire.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Diablo said:


> Are these equivalent to all weather tires?
> They're called all seasons, but have suggest they may be more versatile.
> 
> Continental ExtremeContact DWS 06


It states that they're all season. Snow rated, so that would fall under that category.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

We had snow and freezing rain here in Ottawa a few days ago. My old All-Seasons were fine but I’m looking forward to the All-Weather tires to be installed at the end of the month.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

sulphur said:


> It states that they're all season. Snow rated, so that would fall under that category.


"that" category being all -seasons or all-weather? are most all-seasons "snow rated"?



1SweetRide said:


> We had snow and freezing rain here in Ottawa a few days ago. My old All-Seasons were fine but I’m looking forward to the All-Weather tires to be installed at the end of the month.


will you be running them year round?


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Diablo said:


> "that" category being all -seasons or all-weather? are most all-seasons "snow rated"?
> 
> 
> will you be running them year round?


Yes, that's the main reason I'm spending the extra bucks. I'm tired (pun?) of changing tires every six months.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

All-weather tires vs. winter tires — what's the difference? | Toronto Star found this and with my medical situation got to cover all bases


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Diablo said:


> "that" category being all -seasons or all-weather? are most all-seasons "snow rated"?
> 
> 
> will you be running them year round?


Yes, all season can be snow rated.

All weather will have the three mountain peak on the side wall.
They seem to be somewhere in between all weather and winter tires.

I run my all weathers all year.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Well, my Nokian WRG3’s are installed and were the subject of a short test drive on the thin layers of ice and frozen snow in my neighbourhood at -10C. They are a HUGE difference from the All Seasons on my four wheel drive. Granted, those All Seasons had 45,000 KMs on them. 

But, I had Nokian Hakkapalitas on a four wheel drive Subaru about 8 years ago and these are a huge improvement in stopping power. 

Very happy so far. Worth the investment in my opinion.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Since there was still a lot of tread left on my all season tires I opted for winter/snow tires instead of all weather tires. 

I bought Goodyears and they were installed yesterday. It is 12+ degrees out today so I won't get to judge their effectiveness until the weather turns a bit.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

colchar said:


> It is 12+ degrees out today so I won't get to judge their effectiveness until the weather turns a bit.


Now you’re just bragging. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Ricktoberfest said:


> Now you’re just bragging.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know, he's just rubbing it in.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

It's supposed to be +10 this afternoon in Ottawa, just wait a bit longer


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

ZeroGravity said:


> It's supposed to be +10 this afternoon in Ottawa, just wait a bit longer


Huh? It's noon and still -6!


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Weather forecaster, best job in the world. Can be wrong 60% of the time and that's a good record....Forecast is still for +9 later today

Ottawa, Ontario 7 Day Weather Forecast - The Weather Network


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

ZeroGravity said:


> Weather forecaster, best job in the worold. Can be wrong 60% of the time and that's a good record....Forecast is still for +9 later today
> 
> Ottawa, Ontario 7 Day Weather Forecast - The Weather Network


It already +15 here.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

ZeroGravity said:


> Weather forecaster, best job in the world. Can be wrong 60% of the time and that's a good record....



Nah, being a baseball player is where it is at. You get paid millions and the best hitters in the game still fail about 70% of the time.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> It already +15 here.



I just popped out to The Bay because they had a really good sale on dress shirts, which I wear for work. I wore a sweatshirt and was too warm while I was out there. If it is still this nice at about 4pm when I leave to go teach tonight, I will open the sunroof on the car on general principle.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

colchar said:


> Nah, being a baseball player is where it is at. You get paid millions and the best hitters in the game still fail about 70% of the time.


As a designated hitter. Other guys have to do (a little) more. But yeah hit the ball 1/3 of the time and you're a star


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

colchar said:


> Nah, being a baseball player is where it is at. You get paid millions and the best hitters in the game still fail about 70% of the time.


I'd counter that with CEO of Nortel. Success rate in negative numbers, and yet the stream of CEO's at the end all took home huge bonus' for destroying the company. I want that job!


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Quite a bit of snow and -11C here. I can confirm these Nokian WRG3s are the best winter tires I've ever owned. And I never have to do the seasonal swap. Hurray!


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Zero issues today with new Hankook Winter iPikes. Grippy and quiet, what more could I ask for.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

ZeroGravity said:


> Zero issues today with new Hankook Winter iPikes. Grippy and quiet, what more could I ask for.


Tires you don’t have to swap?


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

I like doing it and 45 minutes of my life twice a year to change tires isn't significant enough for me to worry about.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

ZeroGravity said:


> I like doing it and 45 minutes of my life twice a year to change tires isn't significant enough for me to worry about.


Well, have I got some people on my street you could make very happy


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

ZeroGravity said:


> I like doing it and 45 minutes of my life twice a year to change tires isn't significant enough for me to worry about.


and it gives you opportunity to check your tire pressures 

(which is something no one every does)


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Twice a year, once in the spring, once in the fall. I do check brake wear though.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

That is one drawback to not swapping tires, it's harder to check the condition of the brakes and lines. I usually apply anti-corrosion to the lines and fittings too. Oh well.


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## Guest (Dec 12, 2017)

I do the same. It's a two beer job each season.
Check the brakes, fresh lube and anti-seize on the bolts.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

I learned the hard way to put anti-seize on the hub centres on my Mazda 3. It was quite the sight with me swinging 6 feet of 2x4 trying to break the steel winter wheels off because of corrosion.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

laristotle said:


> I do the same. It's a two beer job each season.
> Check the brakes, fresh lube and anti-seize on the bolts.


It's much longer than that in my neighbourhood. Once they see you out, the retired neighbours all come over to chat. It once took me 4 hours to wash my car. I had to give up and start taking it to a wash.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I guess I should change them this weekend. Truck tires are heavy and the god damn 3 ton floor jack weighs about 100 lbs gotta lug that bastard outa storage and up the stairs. Then there’s
The Christmas tree gotta get one of those - life is too damn complicated.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

laristotle said:


> I do the same. It's a two beer job each season.



Talk about being lazy. With the tiniest bit of effort you could turn it into a four beer job.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Just to add to this thread - and it may have been brought up somewhere in the previous 7 pages - but I was casually browsing through the pamphlets on the counter at Canadian Tire while waiting for service yesterday. One of the pamphlets was focussed on winter tires. In the pamphlet, they compare all-season, all-weather, and winter tires for average stopping distance at 80km/h. All-season have 100ft average greater stopping distance than winter tires, and all-weather take an avewrage of 35ft more to stop than winter tires. So, MUCH better stopping than all-season, but not as good as winter tires.

To quote the pamphlet: "Maintains its performance in temperatures above and below 7 degrees C but may have a shorter mileage rating than an all-season tire."

In sum, a very useful compromise that may be more, or less, useful, depending on the typical driving conditions/winters in one's region.


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