# Question about singing



## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Hi All, happy Friday. I have a rather dumb question for all you folks who play and sing. I have no problems with timing and tempo and some things I sing rather well, but really I'm a campfire player. That said I still want to to that to the best of my abilities. I generally have no problems playing and singing, however I do find some songs to be a HUGE challenge and my playing goes all wonky. For example Hearts Crazy on You, or Alice and Chains No Excuses. I can play it inside out even when I'm not quite sober :smile: BUT when I get to the chorus, I can't for the life of me play and sing. Strangely it's songs that require vigorous strumming that make me stumble. Fingerpicking? Not a problem, not even something like Blackbird. Any advise how to correct this?


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

try drumming........just kidding.........good post and am interested in the responses........happy Friday back
Gerry


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

RIFF WRATH said:


> try drumming........just kidding.........good post and am interested in the responses........happy Friday back
> Gerry


No Kidding! I always wonder how guys like Phil Collins or Don Henley DO that!


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2008)

I can empathize: I don't multitask well. I tend to drool when I open my mouth and am playing my guitar. Always have. Unless I practice a sing and playing a song. A lot.


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

I have absolutely no control over my voice at all, but I do know a few people that have had this problem in the past and the most common solution was to move your body to the beat of the music and everything else falls into place.

It makes for some funny dancing, but entertaining none the least.


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

Singing and playing can be a challenge when strumming patterns change.The best advice i can give you is just practice at it.Once you play the choris over and over it will get easier.Sounds like you already know how to do both and it will go better as you practice it.
Hope that helps.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

i can do a pretty good alice in chains voice- but cant hit a lot of the notes in the choruses- your certainly just like everybody else.
i dont really do cover tunes, because usually my voice wont handle them to my satisfaction- but the cover tunes i do play are ones that i can sing to a certain degree. if i try one and struggle with the vocals, i never really learn it, then forget about it. if it works, ill tend to play it more and more, and after a while i feel comfortable with it.
when i first started singing, my voice was useless for anything- then i started writing songs and found that my voice worked great for my own tunes lol.
a huge part of singing is either having the confidence, or the complete lack of care about anyone elses opinions, to just belt it out. once you can do that, then you can begin to improve your voice.
and wether a voice is good or not is really subjective. its how the voice fits the particular song that matters.
perhaps you can bend the songs youre trying to play so that they fit your voice better-
i know an excellent songwriter, he plays guitar and sings all original stuff, years ago he asked me to help him-
i found that when he was singing, he was trying way too hard to get the notes right- so that he sounded very muted and stale, and it didnt work at all.
i said hey- if your going to sing, youve got to sing. you may not want everyone to hear your voice, but if they dont hear it, then your not singing.
it doesnt have to be technically perfect- it just needs to be perfect for the song. it worked for him.


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

'not quite sober' Therein lies your problem, drink more it always helps :food-smiley-004:


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## bluezombie (May 7, 2007)

Ripper said:


> 'not quite sober' Therein lies your problem, drink more it always helps :food-smiley-004:


Haha. I've actually heard somewhere that alcohol makes some people sing better... Because they are more relaxed or something...

Anyways I just started singing lessons, and i will be playing guitar at the same time since i'm a HUGE Jack Johnson fan. I'll have to get used to multi tasking as well


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

More is the answer. Not everything is easy:smile:and sometimes the hurdles are big. Like repetitive motions easier with time. 

There are some songs I have played and sang for a long time that I can totally zone out on. Do the song and think about the next song on the set list during it. 

Not that that helps much. I know that if I don't sing for awhile that it takes some serious work to get it together,


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I have trouble counting out loud while I play, or saying the notes, so singing at the same time?
I've always had trouble playing and singing at the same time.

But for those who have heard me sing, and also heard me play guitar, most of them would rather hear me play guitar. That would be the lesser of two evils...:smile:

So I definitely respect at least that part of someone who can do both at the same time and do it well. I may not respect anything else about them, but they can do that. Especially I am impressed by people who can play an intricate riff or pattern and sing something with different pitches & rhythm.


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

an old singing coach I had would have freaked over the alcohol comment. He said never drink while singing, you can end up hurting your vocal cords.

He also used to make us sing something while tapping our hands on the table at different tempos, he said it helps to program the brain for different rythms and tasks and makes it easier to play and sing. As goofy as it sounds I like it worked.


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## DimebagTributer (Aug 12, 2008)

i learned to do both, just by tryin over and over again. Play the song...... like on a recorded casset, play it back.. and sing with it, just get used to it feel the beat and slowly play with it one bit at a time. like if ur supposed to tremolo pick some note then instead just pick it once and hold it and just figure out the singing to it.

I mean just play the more BASIC version of the guitar and slowly add in more of the harder stuff as u get used to it... hope this helps


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Ripper said:


> an old singing coach I had would have freaked over the alcohol comment. He said never drink while singing, you can end up hurting your vocal cords.
> 
> He also used to make us sing something while tapping our hands on the table at different tempos, he said it helps to program the brain for different rythms and tasks and makes it easier to play and sing. As goofy as it sounds I like it worked.


when i first started singing, we were really serious-
and i was so scared and inexperienced at it, that we found that lots of whisky helped- i sang better, i felt better, all was good.
but i couldnt even speak the next day- just could squeek like a mouse.
so i wasnt able to sing on consecutive nights- 
and then there were the gigs where we were all so horribly drunk it was pointless lol


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## Gilliangirl (Feb 26, 2006)

I hate singing, and can't sing very well, but what worked for me when learning songs that have different guitar strum patterns and singing patterns was this:

Learn the song on the guitar first. You need to be able to play that song in your sleep! Save the original song to your hard drive and play along with the song and original artist, even if you've changed the key for your own voice. Play it in the 'shapes' you will eventually play it in, even if you have to capo it at 6 to do it in the same key as the original artist. If you're doing it in the same key as original artist anyway, all the better. Then when you're playing the guitar along with the song (and just learn the guitar first), you will learn to associate where the voice bits coincide with your strums. Start gradually singing along with it once you get the guitar down. If you have to slow down the song to do it, do so. You can slow down the song (if it's on your hard drive) by going to View, Enhancements, Play Speed Settings in your Windows Media Player and adjusting the button slower.

The other way that works is to just concentrate on a very small part of the song at a time. Take two lines and do them slowly til you've got. Then go on to the next two lines, etc.

People who do not sing and play a musical instrument at the same time probably have no idea how hard it really is! I find it REALLY hard and it makes me feel inferior when I can't do it. It takes alot of work and practice for me. I guess I'm not 'a natural'.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Gilliangirl said:


> People who do not sing and play a musical instrument at the same time probably have no idea how hard it really is!


Exactly--and that was my main point.
It isn't easy.
It does take work.
If you find it easy then you're a freak, er, a naturally gifted musician blessed with a valuable talent. :smile:


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

fraser said:


> when i first started singing, we were really serious-
> and i was so scared and inexperienced at it, that we found that lots of whisky helped- i sang better, i felt better, all was good.
> but i couldnt even speak the next day- just could squeek like a mouse.
> so i wasnt able to sing on consecutive nights-
> and then there were the gigs where we were all so horribly drunk it was pointless lol


Exactly, I found out from a music vocal prof at the local university that beer is supposed to be harder on your vocal cords. Whiskey can relax them. I mean it had better how else can a person get that nice dirty raspy blues voice without lots of whiskey and cigs.


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

Gilliangirl said:


> People who do not sing and play a musical instrument at the same time probably have no idea how hard it really is! I find it REALLY hard and it makes me feel inferior when I can't do it. It takes alot of work and practice for me. I guess I'm not 'a natural'.


ahh you just need some more self confidence is all. Practice makes perfect and don't expect perfect. The more relaxed you are the easier it is. Alot of times I noticed that people who are trying to learn to play and sing are trying to hard and it ends up backfiring. 

use the force...feel it and sing it like YOU think it should sound.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Ripper said:


> Exactly, I found out from a music vocal prof at the local university that beer is supposed to be harder on your vocal cords.


It makes me burp during songs ...not trying to gross anyone out but it is a consideration during a gig.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Gilliangirl said:


> Learn the song on the guitar first. You need to be able to play that song in your sleep! It takes alot of work and practice for me. I guess I'm not 'a natural'.


Well that's the thing, I DO know those songs blind, sleeping etc. Confounds me really. I think I should just drop them from my "set" list!! Who the hell am I kidding anyway! I have some to realise(much to my dismay) that the songs I sing the best are not always ones I love... Oh well music is music right? (For the most part)


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

fraser said:


> when i first started singing, we were really serious-
> and i was so scared and inexperienced at it, that we found that lots of whisky helped- i sang better, i felt better, all was good.
> but i couldnt even speak the next day- just could squeek like a mouse.
> so i wasnt able to sing on consecutive nights-
> and then there were the gigs where we were all so horribly drunk it was pointless lol


Fraser you crack me up! Cheers!


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## Grenvilleter (Dec 22, 2007)

ahhhh....alcohol...a musicians best friend and worst enemy. It allows you to overcome inhibitions and play better ...to a point.... then it tends to allow you to make a fool of yourself and get very sloppy.
It also goes without saying, if allowed to take control, it will kill you.

Ha...for 20 yrs. playing and drinking went hand in hand. It seemed weird at first to play without a beer beside me but like a new type of strings or a different guiitar neck, It's not so bad after you get used to it.:food-smiley-004:


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> Fraser you crack me up! Cheers!


:smile:well i do my best-
cheers back starbuck
:food-smiley-004:


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## Sandman (Jul 19, 2007)

xuthal said:


> Singing and playing can be a challenge when strumming patterns change.The best advice i can give you is just practice at it.Once you play the choris over and over it will get easier.Sounds like you already know how to do both and it will go better as you practice it.
> Hope that helps.


I agree. The best thing to do is practice,practice,practice.If, it comes to a point where you are convinced it won't work,then just accept the fact that song wasn't yours to play.My first try at Mitchell's "Patio Lanterns" was terrible for a long time,but after a while, people ask me to play it (I can still screw it up though lol). Then I have tried "Blackbird" and, while singing is not the problem, the pattern is. No matter how much I practice it does not work for me. So, I move onto something else and will maybe try another time. It's not that I am giving up, It's just that there are so many songs and so little time.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Sandman said:


> I agree. The best thing to do is practice,practice,practice.If, it comes to a point where you are convinced it won't work,then just accept the fact that song wasn't yours to play.My first try at Mitchell's "Patio Lanterns" was terrible for a long time,but after a while, people ask me to play it (I can still screw it up though lol). Then I have tried "Blackbird" and, while singing is not the problem, the pattern is. No matter how much I practice it does not work for me. So, I move onto something else and will maybe try another time. It's not that I am giving up, It's just that there are so many songs and so little time.


Yes, but therein lies the problem for me. Things like Blackbird for some reason are not a problem. It's the rather simple sounding things like Crazy on You, or even that new City and Color one confounded me for a couple of nights. But yeah that's the beauty of it,. There's always something to work on. Someone suggested Singing for Dummies and I've been looking for it. Sounds perfect for a hack like me!! I'm not going on tour (mayeb that should be on a t-shit) The I'm not going on Tour tour. the back could say I don't do requests!


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

The genesis of the song may have something to do with it.

Blackbird was no doubt written by a single person who was obviously singing and playing guitar as he wrote the song.

Crazy On You is a product of Anne singing while Nancy played (well... maybe - Nancy sings pretty well too). The nature of the band makes it unnecessary to do both at once, so they were free to evolve the song in a direction that might make it difficult to sing and play simultaneously.

Just speculating, of course...


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

Greg Ellis said:


> The genesis of the song may have something to do with it.
> 
> Blackbird was no doubt written by a single person who was obviously singing and playing guitar as he wrote the song.
> 
> ...


Most assuredly, however, that does not deter me from wanting to do both...at the same time.


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