# Are guitar stores hurting?



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I've been getting this impression lately. 

It seems like a lot of shops and Long & MacQuade seem to be carrying less stock, and reducing prices on what they have. 

Are they?


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

I would say yes. More and more musicians are getting used gear...you're getting more bang for your Buck basicaly. 10 years ago..it was a lot harder to do find good deals before all that internet stuff. Even on new gear...we can now hunt for the best price online..and then go see local stores to see if they can match it.


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## pickslide (May 9, 2006)

I also think that it does not help that companies like Fender and Gibson are charging more and more for items that many people say are of quality that does not match the price being charged. Why would you buy a MIM Fender Strat for $700 or more when you can get a used US Strat for the same or less or even have somebody build you one with high quality parts for a few hundred dollars more?


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

Absolutely.

Over the summer I worked part-time at a store I used to work at. On Saturdays we were doing about 25% of the business we did 3 years ago. Sales of parts are way up. The repair department was busy. Everything else is down. People are fixing up old guitars and being happy with that they have instead of buying new.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I have also heard that Fender has been VERY slow getting new product out to the smaller distributors recently.
In general, I was told that business has slowed considerably.

Cheers

Dave


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

I would say yes that they are hurting too and I say that based upon what I have been seeing over the past 8 months. 

Two major observations are:

-kijiji is an economic indicator of very high order and stuff at excellent prices doesn't move
-eBay is another huge economic indicator and I had a fantastic Gibson Les Paul Studio up with a starting bid of $750. It sold for $750. In new condition (or pretty close) it should have brought $850 or $900. 


So...back to the stores...who will be buying them for $1300+ if people can't even buy them for $800? That's just one example but across the board most gear isn't selling unless people are selling it for incredibly cheap prices and when it is bad in the used market, it is normally bad in the new market.


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## Thornton Davis (Jul 25, 2008)

During a recent visit to a local L&M store (on a Saturday early afternoon), I noticed that the "Lessons Dept" was jammed with parents and their kids waiting to take music lessons. The retail portion of the store however was realitively quiet. High end guitars and larger amps aren't selling. But I'm not seeing a decrease in the pricing.

TD


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

It seems so to me. Lots of interest in playing, less money to spend on it.

However, I have to point out that Taylor Swift is selling lots of guitars to girls right now. They all want to be her or something. My lesson registrations for girls was way up this year and they all want Taylor Swift.

Peace, Mooh.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Mooh said:


> It seems so to me. Lots of interest in playing, less money to spend on it.
> 
> However, I have to point out that Taylor Swift is selling lots of guitars to girls right now. They all want to be her or something. My lesson registrations for girls was way up this year and they all want Taylor Swift.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


Yup, my 8 year old niece was all excited to tell me she started guitar lessons 2 months ago. Taylor Swift is her influence!


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

guitar stores can't hurt...they have no feelings.

no feelings...there's a song for ya....


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Mooh said:


> It seems so to me. Lots of interest in playing, less money to spend on it.
> 
> However, I have to point out that Taylor Swift is selling lots of guitars to girls right now. They all want to be her or something. My lesson registrations for girls was way up this year and they all want Taylor Swift.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


That's funny. Mooh, I hope you're not teaching them to sing like her. Maybe you could teach them to sing like Carrie Underwood and just tell them it's Taylor Swift.


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## holyman (Dec 22, 2009)

Personal annecdotes and impressions are interesting but really say nothing factual about the retail music industry.

There are figures and data regarding the health of the music industry in Canada, sales of instruments, number and health of retailers, etc. If people are really interested it would not be difficult to get the facts.

A 3 second google search found this:

Canadian Industry Statistics - Retail Revenues and Expenses

As for L&M - I work there and they are doing quite well. At the St John's store we are being run off our feet and I am sure Xmas is going to be insane as always. 

That being said, I agree that it is a used gear buyers market these days. I have been watching prices steadily fall on eBay over the past year. Its hard to say how this affects retailers though, especially since many of them also sell used gear as well. And besides, lots of businesses thrive in tough economic times, especially if people feel they are delivering good value for the dollar.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Models like the Gibson 50s Tribute LP and the Blacktop Fenders are sold out or selling like crazy. Why Gibson won't any more Tributes, I can only guess - low profit margin?


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

FlipFlopFly said:


> That's funny. Mooh, I hope you're not teaching them to sing like her. Maybe you could teach them to sing like Carrie Underwood and just tell them it's Taylor Swift.


Interesting observation. I concentrate on guitar but caution students that TS isn't that good a singer and sounds like she requires electronic assistance to sing on key. In a perfect world my students would go to a vocal coach too, but it ain't a perfect world.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

In the last five years I have never seen so many good guitars being listed and relisted on CL and Kijiji... owners keep putting them up, hoping not to take a bath, and would-be buyers keep staying away, keen on scoring an even better deal elsewhere - and not exactly flush with cash anyway.

Guitar stores selling brand new product have to be even worse... people don't have as much disposable cash as they did even a couple of years ago and it's showing. I imagine lower-priced guitars still move but the big ticket premium stuff has to be moving a lot more slowly.

Some guys I've been casually tracking in the Toronto used market have been trying to flog the same guitars and amps for months on end - some of them even keeping their gear at the same price! Pretty wild. But even if you significantly lower your prices, there's always buyers who will come in wanting to lowball you for even more. Strange market conditions out there.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

holyman said:


> Personal annecdotes and impressions are interesting but really say nothing factual about the retail music industry.
> 
> There are figures and data regarding the health of the music industry in Canada, sales of instruments, number and health of retailers, etc. If people are really interested it would not be difficult to get the facts.
> 
> ...


Yes, but 50% of the population of NFLD. play guitar don't they?:rockon2:


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Mooh said:


> Interesting observation. I concentrate on guitar but caution students that TS isn't that good a singer and sounds like she requires electronic assistance to sing on key. In a perfect world my students would go to a vocal coach too, but it ain't a perfect world.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


I wonder as Taylor gets a little more mature, if her voice will get better. And surely, she must have a singing coach on her team.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I don't have any evidence myself, other than anecdotal, for either they are or aren't, but one thing I have noticed is that guitar stores seem to offer less variety on accessories these days--it's harder to find oddball accessories in a store.

They're online, but not usually in any store around here.

I like checking them out in person first.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I think it's going to vary by local market.

The L&M in Ottawa always seems quite busy whenever I'm there, and they show no reduction in visible stock. Three blocks from my suburban home is a guitars-only music store shoved between a bakery and dry cleaner in a strip mall, and they seem to be doing fine now after 3 years.

We had three vintage/used places in town. One went under because the owner was a bad businessman and highly disorganized, one was obliged to close because the location was expropriated for condos, and the remaining one is doing fine and was even willing to spring for renovations to the store this past year.

So, like I say, while I imagine that things like on-line music stores have likely taken a chunk out of showroom sales for everybody, business doesn't seem to be hurting terribly in our neck of the woods.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

I was just at Tom Lee in Richmond and was extremely surprised at the lack of guitars and what they did have was very low end guitars, from electric to acoustics and had even switched out a few brands to stock Epiphones and no offence here to Epi owners but with a 1 year warranty why on earth would really anyone buy one of them, when there are several other brands like Canadian brands that carry a better warranty and sound better.
I do see a better trend though in the used departments stores that sell used equipment just seem to have more sells going on and to be honest after selling several guitars at Rufus on consignment I got some darn good $'s for what I couldn't get when they were on craigslist for cheaper, and I am seeing a trend for some guitars that were selling for a lot less sell for more money then a year ago, well those folks seem to be getting a better dollar value. Mind you we also see were folks still seem to think they'll get what they bought it for also, so go figure.Ship


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

I try to find used gear wherever I can. However, Winnipeg's used market sucks, so sometimes I have to buy new. 

I've had an amp on my local Kijiji for almost 2 months and no interest whatsoever.


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## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

Over the last 2 decades of visiting the L&M in Scarborough I've noticed a decline in younger players shredding on guitars. It was almost unbearable to be there because there were 2 -3 players playing at the same time. Lately it's been a lot calmer with maybe a keyboard being tested. Their audio section seems to be busy, though.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

ed2000 said:


> Over the last 2 decades of visiting the L&M in Scarborough I've noticed a decline in younger players shredding on guitars. It was almost unbearable to be there because there were 2 -3 players playing at the same time.


Hasn't changed at Steve's downtown.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

holyman said:


> As for L&M - I work there and they are doing quite well. At the St John's store we are being run off our feet and I am sure Xmas is going to be insane as always.


St. John's perhaps didn't experience the peak of the boom quite as much as other places, so the recession isn't as huge of a change.


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## Metal#J# (Jan 1, 2007)

With few exceptions I believe you can find what your looking for either used or at a serious discount online. Besides that, it's obvious judging by the type of gear that goes thru our market place that most of us are after gear that the local shops won't stock.

One of the local shop owners has a serious hate on for me and has even temporarily banned me from his store just for buying elsewhere. I find just mentioning kijiji in a music shop will get you bad looks. Honestly though......I don't care. Their problem.....not mine. Some of us are simply past the point where playing B stock Ibbys and Vox ss mini combos satisfies us (I'm not saying I'm above that.....I'd play it if I had to). So if their stock is aimed at such a narrow demographic and they go down because of it......who's to blame?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Metal#J# said:


> ....... One of the local shop owners has a serious hate on for me and has even *temporarily banned me from his store just for buying elsewhere*. I find just mentioning kijiji in a music shop will get you bad looks. Honestly though......I don't care. Their problem.....not mine.


Wow...what a silly decision and approach to business.

To quote a friend of mine (re: shopping at various music stores) "I like to share the love". 

Cheers

Dave


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## John Watt (Aug 24, 2010)

After the first blast of the bar band rock scene was over, back in the late seventies, early eighties,
it was church and school groups that kept most music stores and recording studios going.
I think North America is over-saturated with electric guitars and amps.


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## Gunny (Feb 21, 2006)

Christmas is approaching. I'd bet that the larger stores will stock up big time. Whether they sell the stuff will be the answer to the question posted here. I wouldn't want to be a small store selling musical instruments at this point in time. I don't think the profit margins are huge for the retailers.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I dont think they're hurting that much.
They probably get a pretty good margin off the lesser import brands and if they sell a fancy VOS Gibson every so often, they can make ends meet. Just dont expect them to carry as much inventory in the 1k+ range.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

Diablo said:


> They probably get a pretty good margin off the lesser import brands


20 to 25% margin is normal on low to mid range stuff. Higher end stuff has a lower margin.

Small stores generally put a higher sticker price on so the customer can feel like he gets a deal, but anywhere with prices online can't do that or people will just go somewhere else.


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## soundgrazer (Oct 31, 2010)

I heard that companies like Fender tend to send their products to stores that agree to a minimum of stock; for smaller retailers this can mean a lot of space.


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