# Musician



## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

Musician: Noun. One who loads $5000 worth of equipment into a $500 car, to drive 100 miles to earn $50


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Basement Player: a guy who wishes he was a musician.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

adcandour said:


> Basement Player: a guy who wishes he was a musician.


Not here...I just love "doing what I do". It's my escape and needs to be nothing more than getting lost for a few hours...


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

One who spends ten hours a week on guitar forums and ten minutes a day playing.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Scotty said:


> Not here...I just love "doing what I do". It's my escape and needs to be nothing more than getting lost for a few hours...


I understand what you're saying, but I was kidding (same way the OP isn't _actually_ defining a musician).

This post comes in peace.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

the good thing about muscians is that they never die. The just decompose.

G.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

steadfastly said:


> one who spends ten hours a week on guitar forums and ten minutes a day playing.


hey!!!!!!!!!


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Steadfastly said:


> One who spends ten hours a week on guitar forums and ten minutes a day playing.


I'll have you know that I spend ten hours a _day_ on forums and ten minutes a _week_ on the guitar!


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

adcandour said:


> I understand what you're saying, but I was kidding (same way the OP isn't _actually_ defining a musician).
> 
> This post comes in peace.


lol, all good...my comments are in good will also


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

rollingdam said:


> Musician: Noun. One who loads $5000 worth of equipment into a $500 car, to drive 100 miles to earn $50


Let's see--my gear is worth less than $5000, but I often had gear but no car or a cheap car & I never made any money from playing--even teaching guitar wasn't much of a living (Financially) but I enjoyed it overall.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

There have been times when I've made more money busking in the TTC than playing bars. 

But but to tell the honest truth, I've made more money DJ'ing weddings and Company Parties than I've ever made playing guitar.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

I found out many years ago that fixing gear was a far more profitable venture than playing it....


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> One who spends ten hours a week on guitar forums and ten minutes a day playing.


Guilty as charged !!! LOL


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

rollingdam said:


> Musician: Noun. One who loads $5000 worth of equipment into a $500 car, to drive 100 miles to earn $50



Sad, true and unfortunately the reason many of the best musicians are finding other means of survival and/or going back to the basement.

If live music has been devalued to the extent that you make as much flipping burgers as playing your instrument, an adjustment is coming.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

The reason musicians are finding it hard to make a living playing music these days is those damn on-line dating sites. In my day, people went to bars on the weekends to hook up. There were lots of places to play and the bars were full of lonely people out for a good time. Now, they just sit in front of their computers emailing back and forth trying to figure out if they want a meet and greet. Now guess where they go when they decide they want to get together? .You guessed it, Tim Horton's.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

Reasons Musicians can't make money, As I see it.

1) Rock/musician played music isn't in style anymore. 

Unless it's Country or Heavy Metal, POP music isn't played live anymore, It's played by session musicians in the studio and either lip sync'd live or just sang karaoke style. 

2) The buying public.....Isn't

Even as a DJ I don't buy music, I LEASE it through special DJ only sources and when I decide to close up shop, I HAVE to return my music collection and erase my hard drives as per a legal agreement with my sources/web sites

But the Buying Public, doesn't buy CD's or Albums, It took Until November this year to have the first Platinum selling album. Taylor swift - 1989 
The general public gets their music either streaming it from youtube or soundcloud/spotify, etc. These services do not really pay very much in the way of royalties back to the performer as they have entered into front loaded agreements with record companies and don't have much to pay with.

3) Bars/Venues are having poor attendance.

One of the first questions I get asked when talking to a bar owner about booking my band in, is "Do you have a following willing to come to my bar?" 
The reason for this is simple, Bars are hurting too. 
It's ironic that the crappier the bar, the more steady the crowd is. My band just played a place this weekend that is one of 2 places in Edmonton that are avoided at all costs by "Nice" people. 
This is a dump of unholy dumps, dive bar to end all dive bars, why do we play there? They Pay the Most. 

When I go to a "Nice pub" that's listed on my cities "Live music venue" listings, they only want to pay no more than 100.00/band member and a lot of time we have to supply a P.A.- and not pay extra for the labour to cart in/set up and operate the P.A.


Personally I think that it's a 2 way problem.

PAYING for music has been rendered irrelevant, to the general population. 
There's no reason to PURCHASE what is being given away FREE online. 

Musicians willing to pay for a pittance are devaluing the effort it took to become a competent musician in the first place
The weekend warrior who "just does it for fun" should just do it for fun, and stay out of the paying venues. PLay your buddies house party, or volunteer at a fundrasier for a house fire victim or something along that lines

Live music at the club level is done, and pretty much left to bottom feeders, no venue wants to pay cover bands. They're expensive compared to a DJ
Cover band - even getting 500/night is tough, a DJ can play loud and only cost 50 bucks.

4) Original/ Indie music

If you decide to write your own music and strictly play that. 
You are in for a hard, hard ride. 
Especially if it's a Pop music type of sound.
For indie music the most popular styles (again as I see it) Country, Blues, Heavy Metal.
These are the genres that always generate a following. But it's precarious. Even Johnny Winter said in a Guitar (For the practising musician) interview "There's no Money in the Blues, You do it 'cus you love it"

Indie venues work on a Door charge basis, or pre sale tickets. They don't pay the band. It's Up to the Band to bring an audience to the venue.
If you are "touring" this is really hard to do in cities other than your home base.

One of the other reasons is: We're Canadian
Canadian musicians on a whole have not been very accepted outside of Canada for various reasons. 
There's the Usual exceptions, 
Rush
Anne Murray, 
BTO (buy not he Guess Who), 
Tragically Hip(but they are often confused with Pearl Jam outside of Canada), 
Jeff Healey (he was very smart in getting a deal outside of Canada first)

But more recently it's become cool to trash Canadian Musicians, For various reasons.


It's always been hard to make money as a musician. In the Internet age, it's really hard. 
But it's still fun.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

marcos said:


> Guilty as charged !!! LOL


I wonder how many of us are in this boat. I know I often am.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

As much as i seldom pratice by myself, these days i am finding a few minutes everyday so i can get ready for a few gigs coming up in Dec.
Formed another duo with a new musician and we have a new repertoire and its nothing like i am used to. Beatles, Stones, Beau Domage, Joe Cocker,
Billy Preston etc. Also have been signing a lot more and find that it really helps . So i guess i do practice a bit more these days.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

marcos said:


> As much as i seldom pratice by myself, these days i am finding a few minutes everyday so i can get ready for a few gigs coming up in Dec.
> Formed another duo with a new musician and we have a new repertoire and its nothing like i am used to. Beatles, Stones, Beau Domage, Joe Cocker,
> Billy Preston etc. Also_* have been signing a lot more *_and find that it really helps . So i guess i do practice a bit more these days.


Signing as in ASL or is this something else? (Ha! Ha! Just as I hit enter to post this, I realized "signing" was a typo and you meant "singing"). I am just a bit slow on the uptake. Since sign language (ASL) used the fingers a lot, I thought you making reference to the dexterity you were deriving from "signing". :smile-new::sSig_busted:


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> Signing as in ASL or is this something else? (Ha! Ha! Just as I hit enter to post this, I realized "signing" was a typo and you meant "singing"). I am just a bit slow on the uptake. Since sign language (ASL) used the fingers a lot, I thought you making reference to the dexterity you were deriving from "signing". :smile-new::sSig_busted:


Oops!! I always get that wrong for some reason. Thanks for picking that up buddy.


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## whywhyzed (Jan 28, 2008)

I know guys that race stock cars. Imagine winching $50K worth of gear onto a trailer all bent up at the end of a hard luck night. Even cutting down a $200 tire. And yeah, dwindling crowds, lower purses, closing venues and no gigs in the winter. Lots of the same issues.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

whywhyzed said:


> I know guys that race stock cars. Imagine winching $50K worth of gear onto a trailer all bent up at the end of a hard luck night. Even cutting down a $200 tire. And yeah, dwindling crowds, lower purses, closing venues and no gigs in the winter. Lots of the same issues.



I have a buddy that owns 4 tow trucks and sponsors a road legal drag Chevy S10
He's dropped more money than I can think of into that truck, admits he'll never make it back. 

I can't think like that. 
I always MUST break even or small profit, or it's not worth doing.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

adcandour said:


> Basement Player: a guy who wishes he was a musician.


I thought you said Bass.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

djmarcelca said:


> I have a buddy that owns 4 tow trucks and sponsors a road legal drag Chevy S10
> He's dropped more money than I can think of into that truck, admits he'll never make it back.
> 
> I can't think like that.
> I always MUST break even or small profit, or it's not worth doing.


When music is so closely linked to ROI, the music has to be compromised. That's the dilemma for me. If I HAVE to make money back on gear, well, what has to be done now is not the same as what we had to do when I was making my living at it


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

I think most of us do it for the pure pleasure. Getting up in front of a crowd and seeing them dance is what really turns me on. Its very gratifying and satisfying.
While i enjoy getting paid, i also like playing benefit dances. One of the ones we do once a year is a Cancer fund raiser for woman with breast cancer. Its such a great event and we all benefit from it.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

marcos said:


> I think most of us do it for the pure pleasure. Getting up in front of a crowd and seeing them dance is what really turns me on. Its very gratifying and satisfying.
> While i enjoy getting paid, i also like playing benefit dances. One of the ones we do once a year is a Cancer fund raiser for woman with breast cancer. Its such a great event and we all benefit from it.



Right on Marcos. For me being paid a pittance for decades of practice and thousands of dollars invested is an insult. 

I'd rather give it away and hopefully do some good for charity or medical research than to play for gas money.

I started to realize that the shows I enjoy the most and remembered most fondly were the ones that did not involve me playing three sets in a bar and getting home at 4:00 AM.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Milkman said:


> Right on Marcos. For me being paid a pittance for decades of practice and thousands of dollars invested is an insult.
> 
> *I'd rather give it away and hopefully do some good for charity or medical research than to play for gas money.*
> 
> I started to realize that the shows I enjoy the most and remembered most fondly were the ones that did not involve me playing three sets in a bar and getting home at 4:00 AM.


And here in lies the problem. Why get a cow when you can get the milk for free with a "band" being the cow and "milk" being the music.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

The arts and economics has rarely gone together well for me. Sure, once upon a time before the live music scene dried up, I made a decent little income gigging locally; and yes, now I make my living teaching music, but as much as those are great pursuits, they're not as creative as composition and recording.

I'm not even sure that the arts and economics can go together without commercializing the former or selling out to the latter.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Guitar101 said:


> And here in lies the problem. Why get a cow when you can get the milk for free with a "band" being the cow and "milk" being the music.


Really? Who is devaluing music more, the person who plays for charity (that ain't free by the way. People pay to listen), or the guy who plays for less than a burger flipper at MacDonalds?


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Guitar101 said:


> And here in lies the problem. Why get a cow when you can get the milk for free with a "band" being the cow and "milk" being the music.


Fund raisers are a way of giving back to the community. I really dont see a problem playing for "free" when it comes to helping out those in need.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

For the past few years I was involved in an acoustic duo that played restaurants, wineries, cafes, and the like. It has paid better than my band and is sure easier on the load in/out. I also love the freedom and the synergy that the acoustic duo allows.

What I can't stand is that 99% of the time we are nothing more than "musical wallpaper". There is little reaction, acknowledgement, or participation from the patrons and, as I consider myself an entertainer first I've decided to give this type of work up.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

allthumbs56 said:


> For the past few years I was involved in an acoustic duo that played restaurants, wineries, cafes, and the like. It has paid better than my band and is sure easier on the load in/out. I also love the freedom and the synergy that the acoustic duo allows.
> 
> What I can't stand is that 99% of the time we are nothing more than "musical wallpaper". There is little reaction, acknowledgement, or participation from the patrons and, as I consider myself an entertainer first I've decided to give this type of work up.


I hear you on this one. I played a very posh private club here in Ottawa for a few years and the first few sets where just boring. It took at least 2 hours for the wine to kick in and have a few people come up and dance. Its not my idea of a great evening but it did pay well.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

marcos said:


> Fund raisers are a way of giving back to the community. I really dont see a problem playing for "free" when it comes to helping out those in need.


I may play for free, but the people in the seats pay.

I have nothing against money. I wish I had a lot more of it. I can make a lot more of it doing somethng other than playing in bars to help sell beer.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

Milkman said:


> When music is so closely linked to ROI, the music has to be compromised. That's the dilemma for me. If I HAVE to make money back on gear, well, what has to be done now is not the same as what we had to do when I was making my living at it



Not really. 

There are many bands/individuals that have had at least a one hit wonder on their sheer talent/virtuosity or even comedy.

But yes I do not see any problem stating a fee for me to play any given event or bar. 
I spent many years and countless hours practicing at home, I've spent many dollars in instruments I like and P.A gear I'm happy with. 
While I don't expect to have any single event to cover all the money and effort I've put in to learning to play/"sing"
I 1000% believe in getting paid what I'm worth.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

djmarcelca said:


> Not really.
> 
> There are many bands/individuals that have had at least a one hit wonder on their sheer talent/virtuosity or even comedy.
> 
> ...


Me too.

I'm just not willing to play Yellow Bird or Girl with Emphysema to make it.

I'm not quite getting your point about one hit wonders. You always have to compromise to one extent or another to earn a buck.

In the 80s I was able to teach and play gigs with a repertoire and level of production I could be proud of. 

And, we were paid more in the 80s for a night than most bars pay now.

It's hard to deny that live music has become devalued.


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## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

Years back I was trying to encourage my Son to learn the basics of music so he could learn to play the guitar more effectively. He came back with, "I don't want to be a _*musician*_, I just want to play guitar."


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

ed2000 said:


> Years back I was trying to encourage my Son to learn the basics of music so he could learn to play the guitar more effectively. He came back with, "I don't want to be a _*musician*_, I just want to play guitar."



3 Chords and how to spit


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Sad but true musicians are getting like Hockey players. Thousands doing it for nothing and costing money to be involved. Only a small percentage make the big money (ie NHL players)
Only a small percentage making big money in music (ie Taylor swift. Justin Bieber)


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

deadear said:


> Sad but true musicians are getting like Hockey players. Thousands doing it for nothing and costing money to be involved. Only a small percentage make the big money (ie NHL players)
> Only a small percentage making big money in music (ie Taylor swift. Justin Bieber)


Yes, and this is evident in live music most of all. You have big concerts or almost pub level shows. It's very rare these days to see a band in a club where they have a sound man and decent production.

There's nothing between three or four guys playing on a postage stamp with nothing mic'd and the big shows.


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