# What Is A "Quebecois"?



## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

....so far, no one has been able to find two people who can agree on a definition, no matter what side of the debate they support.

in order to qualify, i believe you should have to have a hyphenated name.

:tongue: 

-dh


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## Coustfan'01 (Sep 27, 2006)

I never heard the word " hyphenated" , and looked it up... What's the difference between a hyphen and a dash ? 

I think a quebecois is someone who lives in quebec and speaks french . I don't think someone living in toronto and speaking only spanish is really a canadian either... You have to adapt do where you're living , in my opinion . 

By the way , I'm not separatist or anything .


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## Kamilla Go-Go (Nov 7, 2006)

Yeah, someone living in Quebec and speaks french... Maybe some people say that you don't have to speak french? (which is quite... incorrect in my opinion... if you want to continue to speak chinese, spanish, english or whatever as your first langage, what are you doing in Quebec!?)

Not separatist at all neither (does that sentence make sense?). I love Canada.

(By the way, I do have a dash in my name!!... Marie-Pier. Do I get a medal or something?? :tongue: (was it really the point of your last sentence? Oh, anyway... today isn't a good 'english day' for me...))

Anyway, what other definition people gave you?? :confused-smiley-010


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Since I only speak english, does that mean you guys don't want me in Quebec? Even to visit?


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## Kamilla Go-Go (Nov 7, 2006)

Hehe  We'd be really glad to have you here in Quebec, I'd even make you a good apple pie (I love to cook). No, seriously, I don't think you would consider me as an Ontarian if I lived there since X years, and still not speak a bit of english... That would really suck, no? Same thing here. If you come to live in Quebec, adapt yourself, and speak french, since it's our langage. Seems logic to me...

For the visiting question, no problem at all with people only speaking english. Most people here understand it, so you can communicate fairly easily with them.


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

Coustfan'01 said:


> I never heard the word " hyphenated" , and looked it up... What's the difference between a hyphen and a dash ?
> 
> I think a quebecois is someone who lives in quebec and speaks french . I don't think someone living in toronto and speaking only spanish is really a canadian either... You have to adapt do where you're living , in my opinion .
> 
> By the way , I'm not separatist or anything .


a "dashated" name would just be stupid:tongue:


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Kamilla Go-Go said:


> Hehe  We'd be really glad to have you here in Quebec, I'd even make you a good apple pie (I love to cook). No, seriously, I don't think you would consider me as an Ontarian if I lived there since X years, and still not speak a bit of english... That would really suck, no? Same thing here. If you come to live in Quebec, adapt yourself, and speak french, since it's our langage. Seems logic to me...
> 
> For the visiting question, no problem at all with people only speaking english. Most people here understand it, so you can communicate fairly easily with them.


Apple pie!!! :banana:


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

ne1roc said:


> Since I only speak english, does that mean you guys don't want me in Quebec? Even to visit?


Not in Quebec City they don't. Haha. I've never been to a ruder place in Canada. They get pissy with you if you speak English (understandable) but also get pissy with you if you try to speak what little high-shool French you know (wtf is that??). It's too bad, because it's also the most beautiful city I've seen in Canada.

Montreal is another story though. People there are usually very nice, with the occasional jerk.

I've noticed that the press lately has been using the word "Quebecker" a lot. Not sure if I like that one. It looks ugly and a tad vulgar somehow. "Quebecois" is much nicer sounding.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

nine said:


> Not in Quebec City they don't. Haha. I've never been to a ruder place in Canada. They get pissy with you if you speak English (understandable) but also get pissy with you if you try to speak what little high-shool French you know (wtf is that??). It's too bad, because it's also the most beautiful city I've seen in Canada.
> Montreal is another story though. People there are usually very nice, with the occasional jerk.
> I've noticed that the press lately has been using the word "Quebecker" a lot. Not sure if I like that one. It looks ugly and a tad vulgar somehow. "Quebecois" is much nicer sounding.


...i have rarely encountered rudeness in quebec (except the drivers, but that's another story entirely).

however, i think it is very, very important to respect the french language and culture. all it requires is a "bonjour", or a "merci". almost all "quebecers" appreciate and respond to this show of respect in kind. at least, that has been my experience.

i have a love affair with quebec and the french people that spans the sixteen years i spent there (1970-86). most of my family now resides there, and i have a grandkid who, at 2 1/2, is already fluently bilingual.

-dh


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

nine said:


> Not in Quebec City they don't. Haha. I've never been to a ruder place in Canada. They get pissy with you if you speak English (understandable) but also get pissy with you if you try to speak what little high-shool French you know (wtf is that??). It's too bad, because it's also the most beautiful city I've seen in Canada.
> 
> Montreal is another story though. People there are usually very nice, with the occasional jerk.
> 
> I've noticed that the press lately has been using the word "Quebecker" a lot. Not sure if I like that one. It looks ugly and a tad vulgar somehow. "Quebecois" is much nicer sounding.


The funny thing about Quebec City is that if you show the slightest effort to speak a few French words, they'll meet you half way or better.

Most people who encounter "pi$$y" attitudes in any city or town in Quebec are the author of their own misfortune (they come with a negative attitude). That's no different with any culture.

When I travel abroad or to South America I make a point of learning some basics of the language there. Please, thank you, hello et cetera. It's a sign of respect. If you give it, you'll get it.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

Oh please. I am in no way some ugly tourist. Whether I'm at home or (especially) in another province or country I go out of my way to be courteous and polite to people. I try to live a life filled with holding doors and elevators and being generous with thanking people for helping me. And yet, the only place in the world I've consistently had people be curt and kind of mean to me for no reason is Quebec City. Whenever I'm in Quebec I'm forever trying to speak what little French I know, between constantly apologizing for not knowing more.

Sorry, but your theories on me are wrong. I didn't bring bad treatment on myself in any way.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

nine said:


> Oh please. I am in no way some ugly tourist. Whether I'm at home or (especially) in another province or country I go out of my way to be courteous and polite to people. I try to live a life filled with holding doors and elevators and being generous with thanking people for helping me. And yet, the only place in the world I've consistently had people be curt and kind of mean to me for no reason is Quebec City. Whenever I'm in Quebec I'm forever trying to speak what little French I know, between constantly apologizing for not knowing more.
> 
> Sorry, but your theories on me are wrong. I didn't bring bad treatment on myself in any way.



Well, if you say so. I can only tell you that I have visited Quebec City many times and have never had the negative experience you describe. Maybe it's a matter of perception. It's possible that people were completely rude to me and I didn't notice, LOL.

I go with a fondness for Quebec and am never disappointed.


Funny but I find Toronto to have more rudeness than any other city in Canada. It's becoming more like an American city all the time.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

Oh yeah, and here's an interesting observation I've made on my visits to Quebec. I get treated a lot better when people know my last name, because it's French (due to the fact that my dad's side of the family is French). Once people see or hear it, they open up a bit and start acting a little warmer. That always gets a giggle out of me but at the same time I find it kind of sad. Like all of a sudden, because I have a super french last name, I'm worthy of some respect.

I don't know. Maybe in my trips to Quebec City I encountered the 30 or so really anti-English people in the whole city? Doubtful. I'm pretty sure there are quite a few people in Canada who have had the same experience as me.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

nine said:


> Oh yeah, and here's an interesting observation I've made on my visits to Quebec. I get treated a lot better when people know my last name, because it's French (due to the fact that my dad's side of the family is French). Once people see or hear it, they open up a bit and start acting a little warmer. That always gets a giggle out of me but at the same time I find it kind of sad. Like all of a sudden, because I have a super french last name, I'm worthy of some respect.
> 
> I don't know. Maybe in my trips to Quebec City I encountered the 30 or so really anti-English people in the whole city? Doubtful. I'm pretty sure there are quite a few people in Canada who have had the same experience as me.



Well, my advice is, don't go there.


Of course you'll be missing out on one of the most beautiful cities in the world and French Cuisine that in my humble opinion is as good or better than the food I enjoyed in France. Then there's the culture and music.

But hey, if I was consistantly being treated rudely I wouldn't go there either.


Fortunately for me, I have always been treated very nicely there.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Well, my advice is, don't go there.


I don't anymore. 

Montreal is awesome though. We go every year to the F1 race and have a great time. It's always a bit of a madhouse that weekend, but that's just part of what makes it fun.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Milkman said:


> Well, if you say so. I can only tell you that I have visited Quebec City many times and have never had the negative experience you describe. Maybe it's a matter of perception. It's possible that people were completely rude to me and I didn't notice, LOL.
> 
> I go with a fondness for Quebec and am never disappointed.
> 
> ...


Your not suggesting that all American cities are full of ignorant and rude people are you? Thats never been my experience. Any mega city (especially downtown) can have that feeling. Just a lot of congestion.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

Milkman, I find it interesting that you have the nerve to question my experiences in Quebec City (and go as far to say that it's my fault, despite not knowing at thing about me), yet think it's perfectly acceptable to state that Toronto is unfriendly.


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

*Imho*

I have a lot of friends in Pointe Claire who gave me their impression of terms like "Quebecois" and "pur laine". They never laugh at my high school french and it's surprising how a few beer always improved my francais... http://guitarscanada.com/Board/images/smilies/tongue.gif
:tongue:

That being said, they themselves had a problem with the term "Quebecois". They were mostly 3rd or 4th generation Italian, Irish or Portugese extraction. Even though french was their 1st language and also their parent's 1st language in some quarters that wasn't good enough. There's a streak in the Quebec separatist movement that seems to feel that the only true Quebecois is one whose family came here from France several centuries ago. They told me that they've been made to feel discriminated against many times as they were growing up.

Watching the Quebec premier on tv the night they lost the last referendum I heard him blame the loss on "money and ethnics". He obviously had had a bit too much to drink but "in vino veritas", as they say.

I'm not at all suggesting that anyone who considers himself Quebecois is some kind of racist but I am saying that there are some who are expressing a racist based view, perhaps without realising it. Anytime you start sorting people out by "tribes" you leave yourself open a bit to the "Dark Side". Today we often hear "our people", "our culture", "our country". Nothing wrong at all with patriotism but we must continually guard against those who pervert such feeling into "Ein Volk" or "Ein Faterland". 

I'm just an old Trekker who gets uncomfortable with movements that may not always seem inclusive for everyone, I guess. My biggest fear is that if Quebec were to leave I would have a harder time finding "Chambly" bier...


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

nine said:


> Milkman, I find it interesting that you have the nerve to question my experiences in Quebec City (and go as far to say that it's my fault, despite not knowing at thing about me), yet think it's perfectly acceptable to state that Toronto is unfriendly.



LOL, I have all the nerve in the world man. I get weary of all the French bashing and am merely stating that my experiences of Quebec City are very positive. I used to go every year for carnival, but sadly have not visited as often over the past fifteen or twenty years. I'm lucky to go every two or three years.

Toronto is a beautiful city, but I finbd people serving the public are generally cold and unfriendly, yes.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Your not suggesting that all American cities are full of ignorant and rude people are you? Thats never been my experience. Any mega city (especially downtown) can have that feeling. Just a lot of congestion.



I'm in the states every month and travel to various cities. Ever been to Detroit? Chicago? 

I don't recall using the word "ignorant", but rude? Oh yeah.

Funny thing is, the farther south I go the friendlier the people get.
Nashville and Atlanta are great.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Milkman said:


> I'm in the states every month and travel to various cities. Ever been to Detroit? Chicago?
> 
> I don't recall using the word "ignorant", but rude? Oh yeah.
> 
> ...


I live in a condo 20 minutes outside of Detroit (my second home). Been to Chicago many times. Been all over the states. My impression is that people are the same all over. You run into some bad ones now and again no matter where you go. I just thought it odd that you say that Toronto is turning into an American City. Given the choice, there are tons of cities in the states that I would rather spend a weekend in than Toronto.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I live in a condo 20 minutes outside of Detroit (my second home). Been to Chicago many times. Been all over the states. My impression is that people are the same all over. You run into some bad ones now and again no matter where you go. I just thought it odd that you say that Toronto is turning into an American City. Given the choice, there are tons of cities in the states that I would rather spend a weekend in than Toronto.



Ah well I go to Detroit and the surrounding area pretty much every month.

Farmington Hills is ok, but I'd happily avoid Detroit if I could.

I wouldn't really want to spend the weekend in Toronto either. I'd rather go to Timmins, LOL (or Quebec City).


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## Zeusse (Nov 16, 2006)

jroberts said:


> I've been all over the U.S. and find Americans to be pretty damn friendly, by and large.


Yep! I've been trucking in the U.S. and Canada for twenty years and have been through almost every city and town coast to coast including Alaska and no matter where you go there's good and bad. For the last 5 years I've been running between Montreal and Toronto and it's just a matter of putting on a smile and being polite even when some don't deserve it. This conversation comes up a lot on what constitutes a "Quebecois" and so many friends of mine in Quebec have givin many different opinions over the years and in the end there is no clear definition. It's a point of view and that's all! My answer is always the same I'm a Canadien and thats all!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

jroberts said:


> I've been all over the U.S. and find Americans to be pretty damn friendly, by and large.



I've been all over Quebec and find Quebecers to be pretty damn friendly, by and large.


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## Coustfan'01 (Sep 27, 2006)

Oh my god , Milkman defending me and my province instead of saying " No , you're dumb , wrong , and turn down that volume! " , that's an historic moment . :tongue: 

Haha , just kidding :food-smiley-004: 

By the way , I traveled a lot too(visited canada from cape breton to vancouver island ) with my parents when I was younger. Maybe that's why I love my country and don't want to leave it .


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

Coustfan'01 said:


> Maybe that's why I love my country and don't want to leave it .


I wish the people like you in Quebec were louder. Unfortunately, the seperatists tend to make the most noise and get the lion's share of TV time.


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## Coustfan'01 (Sep 27, 2006)

nine said:


> I wish the people like you in Quebec were louder. Unfortunately, the seperatists tend to make the most noise and get the lion's share of TV time.


Damn right . Just like you can be against killing animals but can't be for killing animals , it's "cool" to be separatist and make a lot of noise about it , but it's not cool to say " I love canada" , even though most quebecois chose not to leave it at the least referendum...And it seems it's even worse in college , probably because most young people want to " fight for a cause " , but don't want to bother choosing a side or understand what's at stake , so they just follow like sheep .


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

nine said:


> I'm pretty sure there are quite a few people in Canada who have had the same experience as me.


...i have to wonder if they are confrontational. perhaps your own experiences are unique, but most people i know agree that the french are both friendly and hospitable, which is a lot more than i can say for the people of toronto, especially those in the hospitality and retail industries here.

-dh


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Toronto is a beautiful city, but I find people serving the public are generally cold and unfriendly, yes.


...yep.

-dh


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Given the choice, there are tons of cities in the states that I would rather spend a weekend in than Toronto.



...i'm not a big fan of toronto, even after living here for the past twenty plus years.

that said, i never run out of things to do and places to see here. i'm not referring to the tourist traps, but the ethnic areas, amazing restaurants, shopping districts etc etc.

and, of course, the music stores!:banana: 

-dh


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

nine said:


> I wish the people like you in Quebec were louder. Unfortunately, the seperatists tend to make the most noise and get the lion's share of TV time.


...the thing about separatism is that its not a grassroots movement. it did not, ever, come from "the people". it was created out of whole cloth by power-hungry politicians who would be king of their own country, which is why i give it no credence whatsoever. it also reeks of racism, ethnic nationalism and blatant anti-english sentiment (bill 101).

-dh


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## Coustfan'01 (Sep 27, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...the thing about separatism is that its not a grassroots movement. it did not, ever, come from "the people". it was created out of whole cloth by power-hungry politicians who would be king of their own country, which is why i give it no credence whatsoever. it also reeks of racism, ethnic nationalism and blatant anti-english sentiment (bill 101).
> 
> -dh


You can add elitism to that list..."Damn maritimes , we're giving them all our money" .


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## SCREEM (Feb 2, 2006)

I just choose to ignore racism entirely, if not I would most likely be victimized by it, here in quebec or anywere else in canada or the world for that matter. It's so silly here in quebec sometimes. 
I have bothe french only and english only friends, some of my french friend call me l'anglais..."the english man" as a jest and it would bother me because I was just as french as them, they just had to bust my Bawlz about my ability to speak english fluently. My english only speaking friends didn't care what my last name was or about my ability to speak french.

French Canadians are very defensive about their language and are brought up that way, they seem to think it will dissapear all of a sudden hahahaha. French in quebec is here to stay no matter what.


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## 2005fz1 (Oct 9, 2006)

I can't see separation happening, Quebec has successfully played the "If you don't give me more - I won't play" card and we have all gone along. Based on the "Fraser Institute SIC List 1994" of the world's most severely indebted economies, an independent Quebec would be the 28th most severely indebted country in the world, with a government debt burden just behind Madagascar and just ahead of Jamaica. An independent Quebec would join the Third World in terms of its all-government indebtedness.... Furthermore, Newfoundland would cut the power off and Quebec would be in the Dark :tongue: 


FZ1


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

*"It depends on who negotiates the separation."*



2005fz1 said:


> I can't see separation happening, Quebec has successfully played the "If you don't give me more - I won't play" card and we have all gone along. Based on the "Fraser Institute SIC List 1994" of the world's most severely indebted economies, an independent Quebec would be the 28th most severely indebted country in the world, with a government debt burden just behind Madagascar and just ahead of Jamaica. An independent Quebec would join the Third World in terms of its all-government indebtedness.... Furthermore, Newfoundland would cut the power off and Quebec would be in the Dark :tongue:
> 
> 
> FZ1


If only it were that simple! Separation for Quebec is an emotional issue far more than a logical one. Tribalism (or ethnic nationalism) appeals most to the heart and not the brain. Who was it who said "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."? Societies are perfectly capable of making a stupid or disasterous choice. When you see all those old movies of Hitler speeches where the crowds are cheering madly, do you really think that whole country was faking it? Hell, less than a century and a half ago the North and South of the USA fought a bloody war over stupid choices.

Could the Rock cut off the hydro to a separate Quebec? A lawyer's dream! The deal was struck with a Quebec that was part of Canada. Would all such agreements be null and void with an independent Quebec?

This is the point that the modern Liberals and the BQ/PQ never want to talk about. They just mouth vague mutterings that "we need each other too much to be unreasonable about a separation deal". Only Trudeau ever had the courage as a national prime minister to tell Quebec "If you're out, then you're ALL the way out!" No Canada pensions, no EI, no nothing. If Quebec were to become independent, what would make them different to the rest of Canada than Mexico or Borneo? A common border? We have a border with the USA. Should we share federal money with them?

Some suggest that if a referendum choose sovereignity for Quebec that the rest of Canada would sign a fair deal out of respect for all the years we've lived beside each other. For "niceness", if you will. How likely is that? All the "English" provinces would likely feel just as emotional about a split as those Quebecois who chose to leave, only negatively so. Does anyone think that whichever party is in Ottawa at such a time could stay in power if it appeared to be nice to a Quebec that is leaving? It would be asking that party to commit political suicide! Tempers would be flaring everywhere outside Quebec and reason would be in scare supply.

Any divorcees reading this thread? How many of you went through an easy and painless divorce? Why would an independent Quebec be any different?

No, it is far more likely that things would get REAL ugly! Anglos outside of Quebec would demand that there be no "alimony" at all. Their politicians would have no choice but to agree if they wanted to keep their seats. A Duceppe would likely feel the need to "talk tough" and threaten to close the Trans Canada and isolate the Maritimes if Ottawa won't be reasonable. Danny Williams would get a photo-op of him standing by the Churchill Falls hydro switch.

Separatists in Quebec have historically been just as ignorant about how the rest of Canada feels as how well the rest of Canada has understood the feelings of a "Quebecois". The classic bonehead misconception is that just because they feel Canada to be English and French that any deal with Ottawa should be 50/50. The people in the other provinces have NEVER felt this way! They are each as proud of their own province as anyone in Quebec. They feel that Quebec should have no special powers than any other province. 50/50 is as unsupported by reason or evidence as the idea of a painless separation. They regard Quebec as one of 10 provinces, the same as themselves. A "Blocquiste" may argue the point but it doesn't matter. That's the way they feel and it's never going to change.

The Liberals in particular have been afraid to take a strong stand about the aftermath of a separation because they would immediately lose a whole bunch of Quebec seats in Parliament! With their abysmal lack of support in western Canada it is doubtful if they would have any serious shot at getting back in power for a hundred years or more. Any BQ/PQ leader would be wise not to expect his negotiating opponent in Ottawa to cheerfully give him a good or even fair deal if it meant asking that opponent to kiss his political ass goodbye forever...

As I said, it could get real ugly, real fast. I'd like to think that we would pull a Rodney King and all "just get along" but that comes from my heart. My head says my heart is an idiot, that all the reason and evidence points to the contrary.

Let's hope we never have to deal with the issue at all! Separatism seems to be becoming a bit of an old man's issue in Quebec, anyways. Perhaps that's why the separatists are feeling antsy about waiting any longer for another referendum.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Apple Pie man! Thats all that matters. Drool


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## Kamilla Go-Go (Nov 7, 2006)

ne1roc said:


> Apple Pie man! Thats all that matters. Drool


Yoohoo! :banana: 

Wild Bill, you're so damn right!... I was reading, and was like: Yes! Yessss! YEEESSS!! But unfortunately, I know many people of my age who are separatists... These people seems to be for only because they like to have something to fight for, not because it's a valuable opinion. They fight for environment (I know that it's a great thing, but they have no idea what's really going on), they're veggies (uh-oh), they don't want anybody to kill those cute seals, etc... These are always the same people, arguing endlessly about everything just because they like to have some 'nice opinions'. Oh, anyway. I don't think it's a majority, but they're the only ones we hear about... 

And just inside the 'country', do you imagine how people who voted against separation would act, when it would finally turn out to be our biggest mistake ever? They would be paying for a choice that wasn't even theirs...

In 1982, Baie-Comeau merged with Hauterive... Baie-Comeau was a very rich town with practically no debt at all, people working for the aluminium plant and everything... Hauterive was a more clerical sector, with a lot of debts mainly because of its social services (school, hospital, etc). When they merged, there was a lot of yelling and riots from Baie-Comeau's people, 'cause they were going to pay for Hauterive's problems... This was for a small town. Imagine this, but at a 'country' scale (bleh, maybe what I wrote isn't really clear, but I suppose you get the point).

A sure thing is that if Quebec become independent, I'm leaving back to my sweet sweet Canada...


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...continually having a "quebecois" leading the liberal party and/or the entire country must certainly take a lot of the wind out of the separatist sails.

how bad can it be when one of your own is consistently picked to lead the entire country?

-dh


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## FrogRick12 (Feb 21, 2006)

My Canada includes Quebec!


Can any of you US travellers recommend any music stores in Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, or Buffalo?


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