# F1 2020



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Two Canadians have seats this year, Lance Stroll (BWT - Force India) and Nicholas Latifi (Williams). 

Also, a new street circuit in Hanoi. I hope it's not another night race.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I have just started to become interested and learn about F1 after watching some of the Netflix episodes in this series...


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

That netflix is supposed to be good. Hope to see it some time.
Stroll has been less than impressive for me in his first 3 seasons. This year with the car accused of being a Merc clone, maybe he'll have a chance to show something. (P.S. Force India is now Racing Point)

Bahrain race to be run with no spectators due to corona virus.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Aaaaaaand ------------------- Australia's cancelled.

I agree, less than impressed with Stroll. Lots of daddy's money forgives a lot of little driving errors. I don't know anything about Latifi except he was runner-up in F2. I've lost a lot of interest in F1 since they power that be, the FIA, moved it from a series about technology to a series about drivers. It's never been the same since, IMO.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> I've lost a lot of interest in F1 since they power that be, the FIA, moved it from a series about technology to a series about drivers. It's never been the same since, IMO.


Could you please explain this in brief. Please remember that all I know abut F1 is from the NETFLIX series. Thanks.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

greco said:


> Could you please explain this in brief. Please remember that all I know abut F1 is from the NETFLIX series. Thanks.


Sure.

Years ago, the series was pretty opened, technology-wise. The rules were less restricted - make a car that fits in this box, weighs no less than this, and has this big of an engine. Everything else was mostly wide opened. In the 3 litre era (until about 1980-ish), you could build what you want - V8, V12, W16 - whatever you thought was going to work. 5 speeds, 6, 7? Whatever. Fuel and tire development was wide opened. Very little restrictions, technically, just rougher guidelines. It really was an engineer or designer series that pushed the envelope year after year.

Then we went through the turbo era, which basically made the unboosted 3 litre engines noncompetitive. BMW's qualify 1.5 litre engine produced a guesstimated 1400 HP. Technology went crazy with the advent of variable valve timing, sequential gearboxes, active suspension (no springs, only hydraulic dampers and sensors) - I think it was the almighty FW14B/08 that Williams built in 1992 that was the straw that broke the camel's back. It could go around a track, using early GPS, with the suspension and transmission shift points preprogrammed. A very capable car that just about didn't need the driver.

The car that rewrote F1’s record and rule books: Nig | Hemmings Daily


The cars were incredible technical works of art. But the cars won the races, while the drivers had little impact on the ultimate outcome. If you weren't in a Williams (or McLaren or Ferrari or Renault, depending on the year), you weren't going to win a race, let alone a WDC. The FIA used this, as well as reduced and eventually eliminated tobacco sponsorship, to affect a significant change over the next decade. 

Engines that in a previous season were spinning up to 22,000 RPM were rev-limited to 16,000 or so. In the new hybrid/turbo era, boost valves were handed out by the FIA so no one could find an advantage there. Draconian penalties now, if you can't get an engine, oooops sorry, the TKU or whatever they call the hybrid lump now, to last half the season. Force the teams to race on two different tires, although one is definitely inferior to the other. Lots of wrenches thrown into the logical engineer's world.

Over time, they've tried to reduce the car difference due to advancing technology and tried to make the driver (and team strategy?) a larger factor. Not quite IROC or NASCAR, but along those lines. And it's worked somewhat. No one can believe the FIA's viewership numbers as they are self-serving, so no one really knows if viewership has gone up or down significantly, but it is still very popular and growing in markets that it previously didn't. And people seem to relate more to Lewis-v-Sebastian (famous drivers) than Newey-v-Byrne (famous engineers). 

So I can't say whether it was the right direction or the wrong direction for the sport, but I know I didn't miss a race (or qualification session) in the 80s and 90s, and don't even see every race now. I used to wake up at 5:30 to watch races live and now it might be 4 days before I watch one. I just finished watching the last race of 2019 Tuesday night, as the WDC and WCC were already decided. I was prepping for the Australian race this weekend, now gone. I usually really enjoy the first race of the season because it is still a significant barometer of what the rest of the season will look like. And I guess I can now consider myself a COVID-19 prepper? Damn!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@High/Deaf Thank you VERY much! 

Your post was extremely helpful and much more detailed than I had expected.

I am about to read the link you posted.

Take Good Care!


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I lost interest when I bought a race car and started racing myself. It took me a few years but I eventually realized that the team with the most money always came out on top. I lost interest in racing as a participant and as a spectator. The rules don't really matter. Money always wins in the end.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I was a fan of F1 for about 10 years and then about 5 years I slowly started losing interest. For the first time I don't even know who won last year. Oh well.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Sure, big money is a problem. In all sports. The baseball team with the most money wins. Same with football, soccer, I could go on. 

But I preferred when the money was concentrated on the team, engineer and technology and not on the 'nut holding onto the steering wheel'. They've tried leveling the playing field wrt budgets but it never seems to work. Hell, Ferrari is still racing on Marlboro money, something that was made illegal 20 years ago. Just a new company (Mission Winnow) owned by the tobacco firm with a logo that looks suspiciously familiar.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Nice to see Merc finding something good to do seeing as there is no racing for now:

F1 team helps to create coronavirus breathing aid


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Yea, I saw that, too. 

Ferrari, from northern Italy, missed a chance to 'beat Merc' here. Be nice to see some red ones for Italy, some yellow ones for France (Renault), some blue ones for Austria (that will give us wings) and some white ones for Japan (Honda). 

But being F1, if they aren't giving them away, no one will be able to afford them.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Spec series are basically the only way to make racing somewhat competitive.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Spec series are basically the only way to make racing somewhat competitive.


............ for drivers.

Not much competition for engineers or designers in a spec series, though. It depends on where you want your competition from.


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

Most informed summary!



High/Deaf said:


> Sure.
> 
> Years ago, the series was pretty opened, technology-wise. The rules were less restricted - make a car that fits in this box, weighs no less than this, and has this big of an engine. Everything else was mostly wide opened. In the 3 litre era (until about 1980-ish), you could build what you want - V8, V12, W16 - whatever you thought was going to work. 5 speeds, 6, 7? Whatever. Fuel and tire development was wide opened. Very little restrictions, technically, just rougher guidelines. It really was an engineer or designer series that pushed the envelope year after year.
> 
> ...


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jb welder said:


> Nice to see Merc finding something good to do seeing as there is no racing for now:
> 
> F1 team helps to create coronavirus breathing aid


When you said Merc I figured Damn, now Ford has something to do....when I read it I saw it meant 'cedes.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Electraglide said:


> When you said Merc I figured Damn, now Ford has something to do....when I read it I saw it meant 'cedes.


You'd have to go back to the might Cosworth DFV to relate Ford to F1. That was 4 decades ago.

They did fund the Jaguar team for a few years - they owned the marque and felt that it needed the prestige marketing more than Ford itself. 

Supposedly, at some board meeting in Dearborn, Henry Ford IV (or V or VI - some level of grandson) saw the name Eddie Irvine on the list of Ford employees and, as the second highest paid employee in the whole company, had to ask who he was. Jag's lead driver made more from Ford than everyone but the guy with his name on the front of the building and Jr didn't even know who he was.


A steering wheel from a few years ago. Last I heard these things run in the 30,000 pound range (most factories are in the UK).


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

A shorten season, starting in early July? I hope so.

F1 confirms first 8 races of revised 2020 calendar, starting with Austria double header | Formula 1®


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> A shorten season, starting in early July? I hope so.
> 
> F1 confirms first 8 races of revised 2020 calendar, starting with Austria double header | Formula 1®


Any driver who tests positive will not race for 2 weeks (quarantine). Reserve drivers will take their place, so maybe a chance to see some breakout performances.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I was thhhhhisssssss close to canceling my sports channels. Then I heard this and decided to tough it out for one more month. I seriously haven't looked at the sports block of channels in 3 months now.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> A shorten season, starting in early July? I hope so.


Austrian GP, 8AM Central, 6AM may be a bit early for you. 
Bottas has the pole. Hopefully he can win a couple early ones and give Hamilton a run for his money like Rosberg did. 
Verstappen starts 3rd, hoping he can do some big things this year too.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

On TSN.ca and the TSN app they have several driver views as well as the pitlane channel, which is really an alternate broadcast of the race with different commentators. That hasn't gone to commercial during P2 or qualifying, so I have had that on my iPod.

They also showed P1 and P3 on the pitlane channel.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

It's race time.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Kerry Brown said:


> I lost interest when I bought a race car and started racing myself. It took me a few years but I eventually realized that the team with the most money always came out on top. I lost interest in racing as a participant and as a spectator. The rules don't really matter. Money always wins in the end.


My dad was mechanic during the 70's for the Mini team at the Bathurst 1000 Bathurst 1000 - Wikipedia
I raced 2ltr Ford Open V's until, like you Kerry, I was out of the game due to lack of finances. (Buddy took the nose off mine. Kept going.)


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Norris on the podium for McClaren, interesting race.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I was happy to see Lando on the podium, but holy crap, so many retirements!


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

The pitlane channel had no commentary for the race.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

davetcan said:


> podium for McClaren, interesting race.


Nice to see *McLaren* up in the order. 
I think Ricciardo may have made a wise choice for 2021.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

jb welder said:


> Austrian GP, 8AM Central, 6AM may be a bit early for you.
> Bottas has the pole. Hopefully he can win a couple early ones and give Hamilton a run for his money like Rosberg did.
> Verstappen starts 3rd, hoping he can do some big things this year too.


They're all a bit early for me now, not like when I was really into it. I try and get around to watching them within 48 hours, usually the stick and ball sports boys don't comment much so I can be that lazy. This year, they don't have much else to talk about so I might have to be a bit more proactive to watch the races before I hear about them.

Bottas did the job. Bummer for Verstappen though, I was gutted when he DNF'd. I love MAX V!

Should be an interesting year for Stroll. Force Ind ....... errrrr, _Racing Point_ appears to have a pretty quick car. This might be the 'shit or get off the pot' year for Stroll - does he or doesn't he deserve a top seat? We shall see. 

So much attrition. I guess not much race-distance testing between the cancellation of Australia and the announcement that this was on. But F1's been too reliable lately, a little unreliability leads to less predictable outcomes, like the early days of the turbo era.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

It's possible qualifying will be washed out tomorrow due to rain.
If so, starting grid will be best times from free practice #2. Top ten as follows:

1 Max Verstappen Red Bull 
2 Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 
3 Sergio Perez Racing Point 
4 Lance Stroll Racing Point
5 Carlos Sainz McLaren 
6 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 
7 Alex Albon Red Bull 
8 Lando Norris McLaren 
9 Charles Leclerc Ferrari 
10 Esteban Ocon Renault


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Haven’t been following but somehow I got the impression that they’re in Monaco now is that correct.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

They're not going to Monaco this year.

They are in Austria again this week.

The schedule so far is:
Hungary July 26
Britain August 2 and August 9
Spain August 16
Belgium August 30
Italy - Monza September 6
Italy - Mugello September 13
Russia - September 27


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

I didn't know the little box with the antennae above the driver was one black and one yellow for each team. The junior or secondary driver always seems to have the yellow box.

Bottas, Leclerc, Albon, Norris, Ocon, Gasly, Stroll, Giovinazzi, Grosjean, Latifi.

So in this photo from the start last week you have...

Bottas, Verstappen, Norris, Hamilton, Albon, Perez, Sainz, Stroll, Ricciardo, Vetel, Giovinazzi, Raikkonen, Ocon, Grosjean, Magnussen, Russell, Gasly, Kvyat, Latifi.









Gallery: F1 Austria Grand Prix, July 5, 2020


Mercedes' Valtteri Bottas leads from start to finish to kick off the 2020 Formula 1 season.




www.autoweek.com


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

You can watch FP3 on the TSN app, 6am EST. The pitlane channel has not had commentary this week, even when one of the windows is showing the commentators.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Hammerhands said:


> They're not going to Monaco this year.
> 
> They are in Austria again this week.
> 
> ...


Thanks.

There was some noise about Leclerc partying it up in Monaco but I think what they were getting at is that he was not supposed to leave wherever the hell they’re all staying or whatever so there was a big F1 shit storm about that…lol


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

They did have a qualifying session.
Starting grid for race is as follows. Sainz very impressive in the rain. 😯

1 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 
2 Max Verstappen Red Bull 
3 Carlos Sainz McLaren 
4 Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 
5 Esteban Ocon Renault 
6 Lando Norris McLaren 
7 Alex Albon Red Bull 
8 Pierre Gasly AlphaTauri 
9 Daniel Ricciardo Renault 
10 Sebastian Vettel Ferrari
11 Charles Leclerc Ferrari 
12 George Russell Williams 
13 Lance Stroll Racing Point 
14 Daniil Kvyat AlphaTauri 
15 Kevin Magnussen Haas 
16 Kimi Raikkonen Alfa Romeo Racing 
17 Sergio Perez Racing Point 
18 Nicholas Latifi Williams 
19 Antonio Giovinazzi Alfa Romeo Racing 
20 Romain Grosjean Haas


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Read somewhere that Nonzo is coming back to Renault next year.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Top 10 finishers today: (both Ferrari were DNF)

1 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes
2 Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 13.719s
3 Max Verstappen Red Bull 33.698s
4 Alex Albon Red Bull 44.400s
5 Lando Norris McLaren 61.470s
6 Sergio Perez Racing Point 62.387s
7 Lance Stroll Racing Point 62.453s
8 Daniel Ricciardo Renault 62.591s
9 Carlos Sainz McLaren 1 LAP
10 Daniil Kvyat AlphaTauri 1 LAP


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

I'm surprised Stroll didn't get a penalty on that Ricciardo pass.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Hammerhands said:


> I'm surprised Stroll didn't get a penalty on that Ricciardo pass.


Yea, it could have gone either way and a penalty wouldn't have surprised me.

Point seems to be the new F1 media darlings this year, although their 'Silver Arrow in Pink' seems to be raising a few hackles up and down pitlane. Perez sliced and dices Ricciardo in about 1 lap, and Lance couldn't do the job in 15. Perhaps car issues, but Lance would do well to study from Perez, IMO.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

I think Ricciardo was learning on the fly there, he wasn't going to let Stroll do what Perez did.

Last year, Stroll was following Ricciardo around in a bunch of races making the same passes. They must know each other pretty well.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Hamilton has scored his 90th pole position for tomorrows Hungarian GP.
Grid lineup for start as follows:

1 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 
2 Valtteri Bottas Mercedes
3 Lance Stroll Racing Point 
4 Sergio Perez Racing Point 
5 Sebastian Vettel Ferrari
6 Charles Leclerc Ferrari 
7 Max Verstappen Red Bull 
8 Lando Norris McLaren 
9 Carlos Sainz McLaren 
10 Pierre Gasly AlphaTauri 
11 Daniel Ricciardo Renault 
12 George Russell Williams 
13 Alex Albon Red Bull 
14 Esteban Ocon Renault 
15 Nicholas Latifi Williams 
16 Kevin Magnussen Haas 
17 Daniil Kvyat AlphaTauri 
18 Romain Grosjean Haas 
19 Antonio Giovinazzi Alfa Romeo Racing 
20 Kimi Raikkonen Alfa Romeo Racing


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

The pink Mercedes are impressive. Can anyone think of other motorsport examples where a copy car has made this much of a jump?


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I thought it was a great qualifying session. The start will be very interesting tomorrow as Stroll has always been a really strong starter.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

When you get past the predictable P1&P2, it’s a really interesting season, where just about anyone can place well.

wish they went ahead with Australia, but without crowds. May as well have, everyone and everything was already there and ready to go.

we’ve met about a half dozen of the drivers on the current grid...all were gracious and among the nicest people in sport that you could meet.
Antonio and Pierre are especially sweet guys 
My daughter really hit it off with Kimi as well, for some reason, but I can’t find a pic.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Top ten finishers. A lot of people got lapped today. Nice to see Haas get a points finish.

1 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes
2 Max Verstappen Red Bull 8.702s
3 Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 9.452s
4 Lance Stroll Racing Point 57.579s
5 Alex Albon Red Bull 77.211
6 Sebastian Vettel Ferrari 1 LAP
7 Sergio Perez Racing Point 1 LAP
8 Daniel Ricciardo Renault 1 LAP
9 Carlos Sainz McLaren 1 LAP
10 Kevin Magnussen Haas 1 LAP


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

@Diablo , were those pics taken in Montreal?
The way Kimi is, he may have talked to your daughter on the condition there be no pics.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

JB, the Antonio pic was in Toronto (an event for the Alfa Romeo car club... I have a relationship with Ferrari NA, so received an invitation). I was hoping to get to Montreal this year (couldn't last year as my daughter had a Girl Guide jamboree lol) but it obviously isn't in the cards. I hope Gio's performance improves, he really is a sweet guy, an hour or 2 with him and you feel like you've known him forever, like your nephew.

We met Gasly and Kvyat in Austin last year, at COTA...they were staying in the same hotel with us, so we had dinner with Pierre and his trainer Piri, who never leaves his side...nice guy as well and chatted with Danil at breakfast.

The others we've met were Carlos, Kimi and Seb. My daughter really was hoping to meet Kubica, but I couldn't make that happen. 
everyone has their opinions about Seb, but TBH, hes not that complicated of a guy, compared to say, Kimi. Seb just competes at everything, conversation included. he loves it. and if you say something odd or questionable, he'll call you out on it, just for the fun of debating, not in a hostile way, but most other people would have just let go. IMO, it shows how much he is listening to you. he would have made an excellent lawyer.
I really hope things work out for him, its been a difficult few years, some of which he has to accept blame...but not all of it.

EDIT: sorry guys, I shouldn't have cluttered up this thread with this. in hindsight I should have just PM'd JB.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Diablo said:


> JB, the Antonio pic was in Toronto (an event for the Alfa Romeo car club... I have a relationship with Ferrari NA, so received an invitation). I was hoping to get to Montreal this year (couldn't last year as my daughter had a Girl Guide jamboree lol) but it obviously isn't in the cards. I hope Gio's performance improves, he really is a sweet guy, an hour or 2 with him and you feel like you've known him forever, like your nephew.
> 
> We met Gasly and Kvyat in Austin last year, at COTA...they were staying in the same hotel with us, so we had dinner with Pierre and his trainer Piri, who never leaves his side...nice guy as well and chatted with Danil at breakfast.
> 
> ...


NO! We, or at least I, like the clutter. Those personal anecdotes are tres cool. Keep 'em coming. All's I got is the day I nearly ran over Sir Sterling Moss at LeMans. LOL

I'd love to know the whole story about Seb and Ferrari. Kind of a strange coda. 

Haas had great tire strategy. That's often a checker or wrecker moment. They timed it just right and it earned them a point.

Just glad my man, Max V, was in the hunt.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> NO! We, or at least I, like the clutter. Those personal anecdotes are tres cool. Keep 'em coming. *All's I got is the day I nearly ran over Sir Sterling Moss at LeMans. LOL*
> 
> I'd love to know the whole story about Seb and Ferrari. Kind of a strange coda.
> 
> ...


re: bolded...so, are you just going to leave that out there without a story hoping we wouldn't notice?


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Diablo said:


> re: bolded...so, are you just going to leave that out there without a story hoping we wouldn't notice?


LOL Yea, that was the clickbait.

Not that significant, my 'brush with greatness'. It was after the Vintage race on Saturday morning (which Mr Moss competed in). There were two swarms of crowds intersecting, he was in one and I was in the other. We litterally brushed against each other as the two crowds meshed - I suspect he didn't remember it like I did - and then it was over. No way to resist the motion, no way to turn around, get a pic or anything. Just a little memory.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> NO! We, or at least I, like the clutter. Those personal anecdotes are tres cool. Keep 'em coming. All's I got is the day I nearly ran over Sir Sterling Moss at LeMans. LOL
> 
> I'd love to know the whole story about Seb and Ferrari. Kind of a strange coda.
> 
> ...


Absolutely agree, makes the entire thread much more interesting!


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Hamilton set a new Silverstone lap record during qualifying for tomorrows race.
Hulkenberg gets the drive for Racing Point, replacing Perez who tested positive for Covid.
Another good showing for Norris and McLaren.
Grid lineup for start as follows.

1 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 
2 Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 
3 Max Verstappen Red Bull 
4 Charles Leclerc Ferrari 
5 Lando Norris McLaren 
6 Lance Stroll Racing Point 
7 Carlos Sainz McLaren 
8 Daniel Ricciardo Renault 
9 Esteban Ocon Renault 
10 Sebastian Vettel Ferrari 
11 Pierre Gasly AlphaTauri 
12 Alex Albon Red Bull 
13 Nico Hulkenberg Racing Point 
14 Daniil Kvyat AlphaTauri 
15 George Russell Williams 
16 Kevin Magnussen Haas 
17 Antonio Giovinazzi Alfa Romeo Racing 
18 Kimi Raikkonen Alfa Romeo Racing 
19 Romain Grosjean Haas 
20 Nicholas Latifi Williams


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

What a crazy finish! Next week should be interesting with softer tires. Feel bad for Hulkenberg.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

What happened at the finish ?


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Both Mercs had punctures. Bottas was set for a P2 finish but ended up out of points. Seems like most teams had issues with the Pirelli tyres, so strategies should be interesting next weekend.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Very entertaining. I was disappointed in Stroll and Racing Points.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Wow! Thanks, guys, you saved me .......... without spoiling it. @jayoldschool gave me just enough info.

I watched up to L40 yesterday and then went for a ride. Told my g/f that the race was settled and will probably finish status quo - Merc and Max having solid leads. Little did I know - and of course why they have to run the whole race, eh?

So I start reading this thread and see something about 'crazy finish'. Yikes. Close the thread. Go back and watch the last 12 laps and thoroughly enjoyed it (even with the knowledge something was gonna happen). 

It all started with Kvyat's shunt on L15 and everyone pitting early for hards. I thought "damn, there goes Lance's tire advantage". As it turned out that was a few laps too early for everyone to pit and get to the end safely. Those delams were gonna happen more and more if the race continued.

Leaves a couple questions. Would Max have won if he didn't pit for 'fastest lap' tires? He may have suffered the same delam if he didn't change tires.

And what was up with Lance? Is he just a pay driver or can he make the jump to the next level with the car that he's got. Without Perez in the pic, we couldn't tell where the car should be, but it sure looks to me like Lance has a hard time getting that last bit out of the car and passing others if he's close. I'd like to see him make that jump but I just don't know if he can. He's still pretty young.

Should be interesting next weekend.


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

lol, never go on the internet before the PVR. I've opened Jalopnik way too many times when I have a race saved.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

They were planning on using softer tires next week. That should make it a two-stop race.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Would Max have won if he didn't pit for 'fastest lap' tires? He may have suffered the same delam if he didn't change tires.


I think he would have won. And with Bottas' poor finish, that would have put Max at #2 in the driver standings. Very poor move on Red Bulls behalf.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

jb welder said:


> I think he would have won. And with Bottas' poor finish, that would have put Max at #2 in the driver standings. Very poor move on Red Bulls behalf.


Agreed.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Pirelli could build better tires if the FIA would let them.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Really fun race.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Wardo said:


> Pirelli could build better tires if the FIA would let them.


Yes, and the teams could go faster if they could use the optimum tire for the whole race, if the FIA would let them. There is a bit of manufactured competition, but less than in pretty well every other racing series. 

I miss two tire suppliers. That led to some really good competition and development. But outright speed is no longer the FIA's mandate, I guess. The teams try to go faster and the FIA tries to slow them down.

I'm not a big fan of the 'fastest lap' point, that is a bit of hype. But if it interests the general public, I guess we have to accept it as a part of the whole. At least the FIA is willing to drop the truly horrendous ideas, like that 'one at a time' qualifying format a few years ago. That was awful - and only lasted two weekends.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I was looking at a clip from Goodwood were they we’re running Lauda’s various cars up the hill. The front and back wings made the cars look longer but those things weren’t much more than a super kart with an 8 or a 12 attached.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Hulkenberg P3, wowzer! Check out the ride along video here. It's the 2nd one.









Hulkenberg â€˜didnâ€™t expectâ€™ P3 on the grid â€“ but fears race rustiness could â€˜hurtâ€™ first F1 podium chances | Formula 1Â®


Racing Point super sub Nico Hulkenberg put in a starring performance in qualifying to take third on the grid for the 70th Anniversary Grand Prix, behind only the two Mercedes of pole man Valtteri Bottas and Lewis Hamilton. And having been sat at home with no F1 drive just 10 days ago, the German...




www.formula1.com


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Stroll isn't looking like anything but a pay driver these days. Checo's regularly schooling him and now, a guy in his second weekend in the car is 2/10ths faster. Yikes!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

MAX!!!!!

Great race by him. He was particularly good with his tires while the Mercs were chewing them up. Leclerc did an excellent job with his tires too.

Lance had a great start but then looked quite lacklustre for the rest of the race. I wonder about putting Hulk on softs for fastest lap near the end. Was that just to put Lance in front of him? That's not nice.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Stroll's an underachiever with daddy's money. If I were running Aston Martin / Racing Point, I'd be signing Vettel to a 2-year deal, with Checo as his teammate. At some point, daddy Stroll needs to make the right business decision in order to have his team be successful. 

As for Max, he's one hell of a driver! Silverstone has been fun, just due to all the different tyre strategies etc. It makes things way more exciting than seeing your usual Hamilton + Bottas, 1&2.

I was sad to see Ricciardo spin out. He had such a great qualifier, and was within striking distance of a podium finish. However, his recent performances makes me really excited to see him in a Merc powered McLaren next year. I think between him and "last-lap" Lando, we're going to see some fun racing from that team!

Also, Hulk needs a seat next year, and I don't care if it's in a shitty car. The guy is still fast!


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> Lance had a great start but then looked quite lacklustre for the rest of the race. I wonder about putting Hulk on softs for fastest lap near the end. Was that just to put Lance in front of him? That's not nice.


My thoughts exactly.


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

It wasn't just to put Lance ahead. Hulk's tires were done, blistered badly and vibrating. He addressed this in an interview.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I think read somewhere that RP had their points taken away for the season because of irregularities with his car. Is that correct ?

One I like though is the LeMans winning car way back that had nitrous on it - they pressurized the tube frame with NO2 and no one found out until some new owner was restoring the car years later. They used to gas pressurize the frame back then and have a gauge on it so if it went to zero you knew there was a crack in the frame - but yeah, let’s got some NO2 in there .. lol


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Wardo said:


> I think read somewhere that RP had their points taken away for the season because of irregularities with his car. Is that correct ?


I haven't heard anything in the last few days. Other teams were generally complaining about the pink Mercedes copy, but some have launched appeals on (I believe) the rear brake ducts that they feel are illegal. I heard RP were handed a fine and perhaps lost a few points but everyone, including RP, are appealing that decision.

I don't stay up on F1 politics like I used to. 



> One I like though is the LeMans winning car way back that had nitrous on it - they pressurized the tube frame with NO2 and no one found out until some new owner was restoring the car years later. They used to gas pressurize the frame back then and have a gauge on it so if it went to zero you knew there was a crack in the frame - but yeah, let’s got some NO2 in there .. lol


Lots of stories about inventive 'cheating'. Some F1 cars had water ballast that they dumped early in the race and then refilled at the last pitstop, getting the car back up to legal weight for the finish.

Smokey Yunick was famous for some of his creative interpretations of the rules, including creating a 7/8ths scale Nascar Chevy that, from a distance, looked fine but had less aero drag.

The associations are tasked with making airtight rules and the teams are tasked with finding the loopholes, legal or otherwise.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Wardo said:


> I think read somewhere that RP had their points taken away for the season because of irregularities with his car. Is that correct ?


They lost 15 points (constructors I guess?) and were fined 400,000 euros. As High/Deaf mentioned, it's under appeal.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Lance is already making comments to the press about how he wouldn't hold it against his father if he got sacked. Maybe we will get to see Vettel/Perez after all.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

jb welder said:


> Lance is already making comments to the press about how he wouldn't hold it against his father if he got sacked.


Interesting comment and suggests that he's not a complete idiot.

And on the other hand, someone who thinks like that probably isn't F1 material to begin with.

He' driving an F1 car so that makes him a better driver than pretty much anyone but you have to believe and be of the mindset that you have a god given right to win races - even if history proves you wrong.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Not my favourite track but any F1 race is better than no F1 race  I think Lance did as well as could be expected. Great start from him as usual. Perez was likely faster but chose the wrong tire strategy.


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

So, what are we going to watch next weekend? Wait, the 500. Go Alonso!


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeah, I’d like to see Nonso get the 500. Did he win at LeMans, I don’t remember. Anyway, old school kinda driver looks at more than just F1.


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

Guys, if you want some really exiting, edge of the sit, you cannot afford to blink racing - watch MotoGP. Those guys are CRAAZZZZYYYY.

We watched F1 in the morning, and then MotoGP from Red Bull ring after that. Oh how we wasted 2 hours on F1 and how we were barely breathing after 40min of MotoGP...


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Moto GP is awesome!


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

davetcan said:


> Moto GP is awesome!











Photo sequence: the huge Austrian Grand Prix crash


View some of the unbelievable photos from the terrifying crash that happened Sunday at the Red Bull Ring




www.motogp.com





So bad crash, so unfortunate that bikes continued on their path and then true miracle that they managed NOT to hit Rossi and Vinales. Amazing luck that nobody got seriously hurt.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Last thing Rossi needs is another big crash. He got broken up a few years ago.

And yeah, this is real racing; you really have to be brave to race bikes this way.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

MotoGP is great, although I do somewhat miss the days of 2 strokes.




Wardo said:


> Yeah, I’d like to see Nonso get the 500. Did he win at LeMans, I don’t remember. Anyway, old school kinda driver looks at more than just F1.


Yes, last year. So he may be one of the few (two maybe?) who wins the Triple Crown, with a lot of luck next weekend. I like Freddie Eyebrows, hope he can do it.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I hadn't watched MotoGP for a few years but happened to catch this race live on TV. Marc Marquez was just incredible. This doesn't tell the whole story but, damn, these guys are good.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

TWRC said:


> Stroll's an underachiever with daddy's money. If I were running Aston Martin / Racing Point, I'd be signing Vettel to a 2-year deal, with Checo as his teammate. At some point, daddy Stroll needs to make the right business decision in order to have his team be successful.
> 
> As for Max, he's one hell of a driver! Silverstone has been fun, just due to all the different tyre strategies etc. It makes things way more exciting than seeing your usual Hamilton + Bottas, 1&2.
> 
> ...


I actually don't think Stroll has been as bad as I thought he was, this year. I would worry about the baggage Vettel brings and potential ego clash with Perez if they got rid of Stroll. I remember Perez playing dirty when Ocon challenged him a couple years ago...was very similar to Seb and Charles. But man is Lance whiny....he annoys the hell out of me.

Max is a star, no doubt. But I think he usually does best when he has something to chase, and that's when hes at his most entertaining. He relishes being a dog, while LH relishes being the hare.

Ive given up on Daniel, honestly. Hes been nothing but mediocre in my eyes since leaving RB. Nice guy, good ambassador for the sport, good team player and very smooth driver, but dare I say it, over-rated. I sense he sees himself as one of the top 3-5 on the grid, but Im not seeing it. doesn't have the killer instinct the others in the top 5 have. Great drivers occasionally steal a win even when the odds are against it. I wouldn't be paying him the big bucks. Hopefully McLaren keeps it together to give him a better car than the Renault. He'll have fun with Norris Im sure. I love the relaxed chemistry Carlos and Lando have, I think Carlos will miss that on Ferrari.

Love to see Nico get a seat again. Haas has to change something. Its not working.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

"It's hot out, are you drinking enough water. Your hands are probably sweaty too, so you should sanitize." Someone should check his DNA, he may be Piquet's offspring. What a card.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

There's no doubt that Stroll is talented, but I just don't see him consistently out-driving Checo to deserve a seat if Seb has indeed signed an agreement with RP. I think there are plenty of guys on the grid that Stroll could replace, but I think his days in the pink Merc are numbered. I guess we'll find out in Spa.

I'm going to go out on a limb to say that with all things being equal, Max is faster than Lewis. Unfortunately the Red Bulls just haven't been able to keep pace with the Silver Arrows, but when you think about how Max is able to push his car beyond its limits to hang with Hamilton and Bottas, it's quite astounding. 

I still think that Daniel is one of the top guys on the grid. The Renaults are just not what they used to be, as both he and Ocon have been struggling for a while now. I think Danny made the right move signing with McLaren as they've rekindled their relationship with Mercedes. Zak Brown mentioned that they won't be too competitive in 2021, as they'll more or less be running the same car - like most teams on the grid will, but promised pace in 2022. It would be great to see McLaren back in the running for a Constructor's title! 

I actually feel bad for Carlos going to Ferrari, only because McLaren has given him a lot of freedom to express his personality out of the car. He and Lando are hilarious together (I think Lando and Ricciardo are going to be the funniest driver pair in F1 history), and I just don't see Ferrari allowing him to do that. They're just going to be straight to business, which is fine, but I think F1 has gained more fans over the years with teams opening up and showing off their drivers' personalities off track.

I'm glad that all the teams have signed the Concorde agreement, and that Haas still has a future. Both of their drivers' contracts are up in 2021, and I'd love to see them scoop up some new blood. Personally, I can't stand Grosjean and KMags. 

That said, let's see where Hulk ends up. I have a feeling he'll end up with either Haas or Alfa Romeo.

As for MotoGP, those guys are absolutely insane - great to watch!


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I think when it comes to Daniel, its hard for me to see him as in the top in the past 2 seasons, when Gasly, who is in a car no better than Daniels, has a podium and he doesn't. In fact a few drivers without substantially better cars than his, have had podiums in the past 2 seasons.

In sport sometimes its about Janet Jackson: "what have you done for me LATELY?". He just isn't making his own luck. Almost anyone can win in a superior car, and make excuses when they aren't. I think at _this point in time_, between gasly and Daniel, Gaslys the one showing more promise. it just feels like hes squeezing more out of his car than Daniel, and that's a good sign.
On that note, Is Albon still deserving of the big RB? It seems like Horner is giving him more time than he did his predecessors, probably due to the bad run-ins with LH, but Im sure the clock is ticking.
Same with Kvyat, who doesn't even appear to be in the same car as his teammate.
I think theres going to be a lot of moves next year.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Yes, his last two seasons haven't been great, that's for sure. I guess that's the nature of F1, a great driver can only do so much in 'X' car. I mean, look at Williams (trust me, I'm a Williams fan-boy so it hurts to say this), George is a massive talent, and I will bet be the next guy to get a seat in the Merc, but he's barely keeping his head above water in that Williams. 

Gasly wasn't given a long enough shake to prove himself at RBR, because I think they were looking for immediate results in conjunction with Max's consistency, in hindsight, had Ricciardo stayed, I think we would have seen a better rivalry against Mercedes. Ultimately, I do think Albon is better than Gasly, but Alex needs to work on his game, and confidence. I think his team has let him down with all of his recent tyre strategies. He has the ability to podium this season (leave him alone Lewis), and once that happens, we'll see a different Albon, one with more killer instincts.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

On another note, I'm pretty stoked to have found this thread. It gets tiring talking F1 with my normal group of peers, especially when one of them is a die-hard Ferrari fan.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

TWRC said:


> Yes, his last two seasons haven't been great, that's for sure. I guess that's the nature of F1, a great driver can only do so much in 'X' car. I mean, look at Williams (trust me, I'm a Williams fan-boy so it hurts to say this), George is a massive talent, and I will bet be the next guy to get a seat in the Merc, but he's barely keeping his head above water in that Williams.
> 
> Gasly wasn't given a long enough shake to prove himself at RBR, because I think they were looking for immediate results in conjunction with Max's consistency, in hindsight, had Ricciardo stayed, I think we would have seen a better rivalry against Mercedes. Ultimately, I do think Albon is better than Gasly, but Alex needs to work on his game, and confidence. I think his team has let him down with all of his recent tyre strategies. He has the ability to podium this season (leave him alone Lewis), and once that happens, we'll see a different Albon, one with more killer instincts.


It was a HUGE career mistake for DR to leave RB. Im sure he regrets not putting his ego/insecurity aside and staying with that car. A mistake for Horner too. They all would have been better off if they worked things out.I've made career mistakes like that too though, so I understand where it comes from 
Right now, its hard for Horner to change anything...other than bumping out Kvyat. Gasly is thriving on the lesser car, somehow, and didnt really perform with the big car. Albon is "ok", Max is Max. 
Much like if I was Toto, I wouldn't change a single thing. LH is winning, Bottas is a perfect fit as wingman who can occasionally grab a race without sabotaging the team. Those rumours of Vettel going to Merc were hilarious lol.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

TWRC said:


> On another note, I'm pretty stoked to have found this thread. It gets tiring talking F1 with my normal group of peers, especially when one of them is a die-hard Ferrari fan.


Ferrari fans are like Leaf fans.

Your participation here is appreciated as well!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I think a lot of Ferrari fans changed when the team did a wholesale change in 1996.

As for Danny Ric, he had a better chance than most drivers ever get - he was in a champ-winning car. As a driver, that is your 'shit or get off the pot' moment. Danny's always gonna be a solid journeyman but nothing more now, IMO. I'm considering Bottas about the same, after a few years beside Lewis. Good but not great.

And I think this might be that kind of year for Lance. There's no guarantee that next year's PR car will be as good. They have been a very good midpack team but one can't assume they are not consistently in the upper echelon of Merc/RB/Ferrari just yet. And as an F1 driver (and considering the massive importance of the car), you only get the occasional shot to prove you're something more than a pay driver.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> I think a lot of Ferrari fans changed when the team did a wholesale change in 1996.
> 
> As for Danny Ric, he had a better chance than most drivers ever get - he was in a champ-winning car. As a driver, that is your 'shit or get off the pot' moment. Danny's always gonna be a solid journeyman but nothing more now, IMO. I'm considering Bottas about the same, after a few years beside Lewis. Good but not great.
> 
> And I think this might be that kind of year for Lance. There's no guarantee that next year's PR car will be as good. They have been a very good midpack team but one can't assume they are not consistently in the upper echelon of Merc/RB/Ferrari just yet. And as an F1 driver (and considering the massive importance of the car), you only get the occasional shot to prove you're something more than a pay driver.


The cars are as interesting a topic as the drivers...
RP made great strides, but will they sustain it if they keep getting accused of "copying" MB (kind of a joke IMO)?
Is Ferrari in jeopardy of losing their "upper echelon" status?
Is it that hard for RB to find drivers that can handle/suit the Newey platform?


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

HAHAHA @Diablo your comment about Ferrari fans is soooo true. My friend in question is actually a Habs fan, and I consider that close enough!

I think RP will still have a competitive car next season, as no major changes will be made due to the sweeping changes in 2021. 

Regarding Bottas, I think he's the perfect wingman in the field for Hamilton right now. He doesn't raise too much of a stink when Mercedes puts Lewis first. Those rumours about Seb going to Mercedes were definitely hilarious. The drama that would have been between Lewis and Seb would have destroyed that team.

I still believe in Daniel, and paired with the upward swing that McLaren is currently on, I think it could be a recipe for a few podiums.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Diablo said:


> Love to see Nico get a seat again.


I'd never even considered that, but I'd sure like to see it.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I think he has been out of it too long and the fire might have gone out. Jody Scheckter said you have to be prepared to die for it although he raced in an era where F1 was almost as dangerous as bike racing. It’s a lot safer now but I think you still have to reconcile at some level with notion that this race might be your last. Rosberg has proved his point which might be why he bailed after the wdc.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Wardo said:


> I think he has been out of it too long and the fire might have gone out. Jody Scheckter said you have to be prepared to die for it although he raced in an era where F1 was almost as dangerous as bike racing. It’s a lot safer now but I think you still have to reconcile at some level with notion that this race might be your last. Rosberg has proved his point which might be why he bailed after the wdc.


I think we’re talking about 2 different Nico’s. 
rosberg is happy doing Heineken commercials with his dad and enjoying his wealth. Quit while you’re ahead, they say.
hulkenberg, on the other hand....


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Right I’d forgotten about Hulkenberg. Which seems to be what happened to him generally in F1. Good driver but never seemed to get the right break and now he’s getting on a bit too. Although Peter Warr said Mansell would never be champion as long as he had a hole in his ass.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Nico Rosberg is my favourite modern-era driver. I feel like he was the last true competitor (until Max came along) to have been able to get under Lewis' skin and beat him on and off the track. I'm happy to see him retired and living his best life. He has a great youtube channel that keeps you up to date on his life post F1.

On another note, it's a bittersweet day that Williams has been sold. I'm happy that Frank was still around when it did happen, as I'm sure he had some input. I hope that the new owners will further invest in the team in order to secure their future in F1. I also hope they don't change the name.

The only questions I have right now are: will Frank still be in the paddock, and will Claire remain as Team Principle? Don't get me wrong, I love Claire, but I only ask because Toto Wolff is a free agent (and former shareholder). As a Williams fan, one could only dream!


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Diablo said:


> Ferrari fans are like Leaf fans.


You take that back right now! (leaf fan)


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

davetcan said:


> You take that back right now! (leaf fan)


actually, Ferrari fans have a more recent glorious past than TML, so if anyone's insulted, it should be the Tifosi 
Seb Vettel once said everyone is a Ferrari fan. Not sure the same could be said about TML 









fwiw, Im a Ferrari fan...but I'm also a realist  I feel pretty similarly about TML. Inside, Im cheering for them both, but have no real expectation of championships. I just want them to keep things interesting. And having met some of the other drivers and know their stories, theres lots of others for me to cheer for as well, so that watching Merc do laps for wins isn't a miserable experience, albeit sometimes a boring one.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

double post


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Diablo said:


> I think we’re talking about 2 different Nico’s.


I also thought you meant Brittne... I mean Rosberg. 
In retrospect I think he was somewhat under-rated, and I'd like to see what he could still do, and whether I was mistaken.



TWRC said:


> I love Claire


Me too! Pretty hot IMO, and rich to boot! Was top of my list for a long time.
Sadly no longer available to the best of my knowledge.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

jb welder said:


> I also thought you meant Brittne... I mean Rosberg.
> In retrospect I think he was somewhat under-rated, and I'd like to see what he could still do, and whether I was mistaken.
> 
> 
> ...


I go back and forth on Claire. She’s cute in a PTA mom or kindergarten teacher sort of way...but not much more than that.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm a sucker for the accent. I blame Kate Bush.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> I'm a sucker for the accent. I blame Kate Bush.


me too...but it still sounds better coming from Kate winslet, Isla fisher, kate beckinsale, rhona mitra, rachel weisz and Liz hurley than claire williams 

Damn...how did an f1 thread turn into a thirst trap?


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Diablo said:


> me too...but it still sounds better coming from Kate winslet, Isla fisher, kate beckinsale, rhona mitra, rachel weisz and Liz hurley than claire williams
> 
> Damn...how did an f1 thread turn into a thirst trap?
> View attachment 325793


Ya, perhaps not the best of the bunch, but rich and directly connected to F1? I'd listen to it. I'm shallow that way.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Diablo said:


> I go back and forth on Claire. She’s cute in a PTA mom or kindergarten teacher sort of way...but not much more than that.


Well I wish I'd went to your school then. Or maybe I'm just blinded by the wallet.


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

To put this thread back on right track - 4 new races added to this year calendar:
Nov 13-15 Turkey
Nov 27-29 and Dec 4-6 Bahrain
Dec 11-13 Abu Dhabi


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Diablo said:


> Ive given up on Daniel, honestly. Hes been nothing but mediocre in my eyes since leaving RB. Nice guy, good ambassador for the sport, good team player and very smooth driver, but dare I say it, over-rated. I sense he sees himself as one of the top 3-5 on the grid, but Im not seeing it.


He's worked himself into a respectable 4th place on tomorrows grid. (Ocon 6th in the other Renault).
I'd like to see him 'back', but it's also the last hurrah for the qualy mode boost tricks ("party mode" is banned after today).
So not sure if Renault actually have something this weekend, or will fall back with actual race pace.

Top 10 Grid posistions for Spa:

1 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 
2 Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 
3 Max Verstappen Red Bull 
4 Daniel Ricciardo Renault 
5 Alex Albon Red Bull 
6 Esteban Ocon Renault 
7 Carlos Sainz McLaren 
8 Sergio Perez Racing Point 
9 Lance Stroll Racing Point 
10 Lando Norris McLaren


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

It's terrible to say... I'd like to see Lewis and Bottas collide on the first corner tomorrow.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

jayoldschool said:


> It's terrible to say... I'd like to see Lewis and Bottas collide on the first corner tomorrow.


Well there could be a lot more than that going on, likely towards the back though


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

jb welder said:


> Well I wish I'd went to your school then. Or maybe I'm just blinded by the wallet.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Both Renault and McLaren said they were running less downforce and Sainz said that would be bad if it rains. It is supposed to rain.

Ferrari were 13 & 14. Leclerc made it out of P1 by a tenth of a second.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Sad to see how far ferrari have fallen, while Merc really cant help but win (as long as their tires hold out).
Binotto has to go.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Diablo said:


> Sad to see how far ferrari have fallen,


Thankfully, they'll get a little relief at their home race next weekend.
Monza's not a big speed track. 









Boston... ...It’s not a big college town.


This Is Spinal Tap (1984) clip with quote Boston... ...It’s not a big college town. Yarn is the best search for video clips by quote. Find the exact moment in a TV show, movie, or music video you want to share. Easily move forward or backward to get to the perfect clip.




memes.getyarn.io


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

jb welder said:


> Thankfully, they'll get a little relief at their home race next weekend.
> Monza's not a big speed track.


LOL

Just another Monaco!


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> LOL
> 
> Just another Monaco!


i hate monaco


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Diablo said:


> i hate monaco


I wouldn't say I hated it, but I'm sure as hell glad there's only one of 'em every year. It does show the range of tracks these engineers and designers have to encompass. 

Piquet's great comment about racing at the principality (and I paraphrase) : "It's like flying a helicopter through your living room."


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> I wouldn't say I hated it, but I'm sure as hell glad there's only one of 'em every year. It does show the range of tracks these engineers and designers have to encompass.
> 
> Piquet's great comment about racing at the principality (and I paraphrase) : "It's like flying a helicopter through your living room."


i think its a great spectacle for those hoy paloy that can be there. But I think the cars have grown so much that the streets are too narrow, especially the corners, to accommodate any real racing, passing etc. so as a home viewer, i find it boring.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Monaco is all about Friday. Maybe they will make the cars smaller again someday.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

The did make the cars smaller. In 1998, they went from 2m to 1.8m total width (along with narrower tires a few years before). 

In 2017, it reverted back to the old 2m rule. The 1.8m cars were still a handful at Monaco and didn't fix the problem. Plus, they looked strange, at least compared the 2m cars. Monaco is just a one-off everyone has to contend with. Some, especially Senna, produced pure magic at that track. Just a part of the broad cross-section that F1 tries to be.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Williams is sold.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Wardo said:


> Williams is sold.


Yes, 'she's gone' as the Hall & Oates song goes.
But that's not the tune I'll be posting after Monza when Claire & the family steps down.
It's going to be 'Clair' by Gilbert O'Sullivan.
Just a heads-up for y'all.  


(kidding)


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I liked Monaco when the cars were small and more open - like Senna’s McLaren or the Williams that Mansell drove.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)




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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Monza qualifying madness, again.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)




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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

I'll try and find a way to watch Sky's 1 hour doc on him once it airs.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

jayoldschool said:


> I'll try and find a way to watch Sky's 1 hour doc on him once it airs.


They played a chunk of it today and say they will play more of it tomorrow. Excellent documentary if you're into F1.


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

Yes, I watched all of quali. Here's good stuff on Jalopnik today as well:









Remembering Jochen Rindt, F1's Only Posthumous World Champion


On September 5, 1970, Gold Leaf Team Lotus driver Jochen Rindt crashed in the run up to the Parabolica corner at Monza on his fifth practice lap for the Italian Grand Prix. 74 days later, on November 18, Jackie Stewart handed Rindt’s widow Nina a trophy. Her husband had won the 1970 Formula One...




jalopnik.com


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

“Life at The Limit” by Graham Hill is good read. Written in the early 70s.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Hammerhands said:


> Monza qualifying madness, again.


First time a Ferrari has not made it out of Q1 in Monza.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

The car ! She’s a no good.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Wardo said:


> The car ! She’s a no good.


I'd love to hear Vettel make a 'GP2 engine' comment.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Wardo said:


> The car ! She’s a no good.


"It's a shit box."

Now the brakes are failing, instability, the cars are on fire.

Penalty for Lewis, the grid's all mixed up, Alphas near the front, Bottas complaining about the chosen engine mode.

This should be a good ending.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

"You can't say that, it's a Ferrari" AT MONZA! hahahahahahahahahaha

Great to see that Charles is okay, but this is the greatest gift from Ferrari, and it's even sweeter that it's in Monza.

So happy to see Lewis' penalty. in my opinion 10 seconds is not enough.

Bwoah, let's go Kimi!


----------



## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

So happy for Gasly! Now THAT was a fun race, and what a fun podium. 

I feel bad for Carlos, because he won't be doing much of that with Ferrari.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Caught the last few laps on the Autosport feed. The deck got shuffled pretty good. Hamilton fastest lap at the end coming from the back. Reading somewhere that Mercedes has had the longest run on dominance something like 8 years whereas the most was 4-5 years by previous manufacturers.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

What a race!
glad for Pierre, really nice guy.
wish Carlos enjoyed it more...he should still be proud.
Lance isn’t one of my favourites, but I guess there’s a Canadian connection there.

on another note it was fun seeing LH race finally. I wasn’t sure if he still knew how to pass other cars. Fortunately, the other drivers showed him more respect than at times he’s shown them ie Albon...my evil side was really hoping Alex would push LH off the track when he passed him. He had nothing to lose and it would have been poetic justice.

had to take a picture of the leaderboard mid race as it looked to be upside down lol


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I don't blame Carlos for being mad. The restart totally screwed him, as he was in position to take the win. Even then, Gasly did a great job disrupting the airflow to keep Carlos out of DRS range.

Still not a Lance fan. He got lucky today, as he was able to do a tire change during the break - which is such a bogus rule; but oh well, it's never a bad thing to see a Canadian flag on the podium.

I think everyone was questioning the Mercs' ability to chase, as they're usually set up to be in front. Say what you will about Hamilton, but man that guy can drive. Two more laps and he would have passed Bottas.

I think that was the most entertaining race of the year thus far. As everyone was saying, it makes for a great argument for reverse grids.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

You were doing so good there til the reverse grid part. 
No.More.Gimmicks.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Years ago they were talking about soaking the track down half way through the race so they'd have to go to wets for a few laps - an elaborate F1 style and overly complicated sprinkler system was envisioned not just a few peasants out there with fire hoses.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Wardo said:


> Years ago they were talking about soaking the track down half way through the race so they'd have to go to wets for a few laps - an elaborate F1 style and overly complicated sprinkler system was envisioned not just a few peasants out there with fire hoses.


In F1 tradition, they would have found the most expensive way to do it. And then tripled the budget. They would have probably sprayed Pellegrino on the track in Italy.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

So, looks like Perez got the boot/buyout.
should be interesting. I’m glad to see vettel will likely have a seat next year in a competitive car...but it’s sad to see Checo get screwed over.
I predict big changes will be underway at Haas, so still some seats for him and or Hulk.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I dont understand reverse grids....so, qualifying is a waste of time, then?

a spending cap is preferable.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

The way they do reverse grids in F2 is they have qualifying for the longer Saturday race, then the results of the Saturday race determine the position for the Sunday sprint race. Only the top 8 positions are reversed.

There are a lot of scenarios you could dream up, maybe a sprint race determining the position of a longer race or giving points for qualifying.

I think they wanted to try the results of the previous week's race to determine the reverse grid for a Saturday sprint race and the result of that would be the start of the Sunday race, but only on a few tracks where you can pass, like Monza, or unloved tracks like Paul Ricard.

I really like the way qualifying works now, the three knockout rounds is a fantastic system, but I wouldn't mind several times a year doing something novel or goofy. It doesn't have to be the same every week.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I think it only makes sense for Haas to sign both Checo and Hulk. If they do, they'll be getting some major driver upgrades. I could see Grosjean or KMags going to Alfa.

I was hoping that RP would make the official Vettel announcement in Mugello just to steal some thunder away from Ferrari's 1000th GP celebration.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

As expected, Vettel officially announced for Force India/Racing Point/Aston Martin/Ralph Lauren Racing or whatever it will be called by 2023 
Im just kidding...Im actually looking forward to a (hopefully) British Racing Green AM livery.
Will anyone miss the pink? Somehow Sebastien would look exceptionally silly in pink.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Diablo said:


> As expected, Vettel officially announced for Force India/Racing Point/Aston Martin/Ralph Lauren Racing or whatever it will be called by 2023
> Im just kidding...Im actually looking forward to a (hopefully) British Racing Green AM livery.
> Will anyone miss the pink? Somehow Sebastien would look exceptionally silly in pink.


Yep, I'd love to see it in BRG!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

davetcan said:


> Yep, I'd love to see it in BRG!


Me 3!

Looks like Lance is getting a wealth of experience to learn from. Hope he makes the best of it. He does have his moments, but are the often and common enough? A reinvigorated Vettel will be fun to watch.

And how is Sainz feeling? It can't be fun to be at the front and nearly lapping the car you're gonna be sitting in next year. Yikes! Used to be nearly every driver's dream to get a Ferrari seat, but this year it's looking to be a bit of a nightmare.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> Me 3!
> 
> Looks like Lance is getting a wealth of experience to learn from. Hope he makes the best of it. He does have his moments, but are the often and common enough? A reinvigorated Vettel will be fun to watch.
> 
> And how is Sainz feeling? It can't be fun to be at the front and nearly lapping the car you're gonna be sitting in next year. Yikes! Used to be nearly every driver's dream to get a Ferrari seat, but this year it's looking to be a bit of a nightmare.


im really wondering if Vettel is that much of an upgrade from Perez....and I do like vettel and glad hes got a seat. But he'd better come out blazing next year.

I think Sainz really wants to get a win this year in case theres a drought next year. That said, Ferrari have a lot of resources available at their disposal. but management needs to get their shit together. Binotto should be the focus.
Sainz will be good for leclerc and i think the 2 will get along well, albeit not as chummy as sainz and norris are. 
daniel will be a good fit with norris as well.
everyone will be fine.
im interested to see how Lance and Seb get along though.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Diablo said:


> im really wondering if Vettel is that much of an upgrade from Perez....and I do like vettel and glad hes got a seat. But he'd better come out blazing next year.


Agreed. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. We do know that Vettel can (or at least could) be effective in a good car. It should only be good for Stroll to follow another pro around, see his data, etc. There's no guarantee that next year's car will be as close to the top as this year's is, either. I hope Perez ends up with a seat somewhere.




> I think Sainz really wants to get a win this year in case theres a drought next year. That said, Ferrari have a lot of resources available at their disposal. but management needs to get their shit together. Binotto should be the focus.
> Sainz will be good for leclerc and i think the 2 will get along well, albeit not as chummy as sainz and norris are.
> daniel will be a good fit with norris as well.
> everyone will be fine.
> im interested to see how Lance and Seb get along though.


Ferrari is still suffering from the changes that happened in early March, due to the 'cheating' allegations by other teams. Sure did hurt their power output and straight line speed. I'd like to see them competitive again and with their resources, can only assume they will be back in the hunt once they get that bit sorted out. It isn't easy, as Honda showed us all.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> Agreed. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. We do know that Vettel can (or at least could) be effective in a good car. It should only be good for Stroll to follow another pro around, see his data, etc. There's no guarantee that next year's car will be as close to the top as this year's is, either. I hope Perez ends up with a seat somewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perez will be fine. He brings a big sponsor with him, Carlos Slim. i just dont think he was that bad of a driver. although at times he had the same immaturity as Seb, so maybe it will be business as usual? 

i think ferraris woes are more than just being down on power/speed the car looks difficult to drive at any speed and has been unreliable. its dogshit.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Diablo said:


> Perez will be fine. He brings a big sponsor with him, Carlos Slim. i just dont think he was that bad of a driver. although at times he had the same immaturity as Seb, so maybe it will be business as usual?
> 
> i think ferraris woes are more than just being down on power/speed the car looks difficult to drive at any speed and has been unreliable. its dogshit.


I've always had a soft spot for Ferrari, although I wasn't a fan during the Schumacher years (I still contend Enzo would have been spinning at 21,000 RPM in his grave during that era). 

Dogshit maybe, but high-end dogshit. And not the first time - I recall Prost making comments about their truck-like handling a couple of decades ago. LOL I would be a bit concerned about the brakes this weekend, though. That shunt of Leclerc's coulda been nasty on some tracks (and reminiscent of Schumacher's at Silverstone in 99).


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> I've always had a soft spot for Ferrari, although I wasn't a fan during the Schumacher years (I still contend Enzo would have been spinning at 21,000 RPM in his grave during that era).
> 
> Dogshit maybe, but high-end dogshit. And not the first time - I recall Prost making comments about their truck-like handling a couple of decades ago. LOL I would be a bit concerned about the brakes this weekend, though. That shunt of Leclerc's coulda been nasty on some tracks (and reminiscent of Schumacher's at Silverstone in 99).


i was watching Vettel and thinking ....the muthafuckas actually hate him so bad they cut his brake lines?








lol


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Diablo said:


> i was watching Vettel and thinking ....the muthafuckas actually hate him so bad they cut his brake lines?
> View attachment 327733
> 
> lol


I heard, from a reliable source, it was some guy named Checo. Can't confirm.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I think everyone who watches Formula 1 has some sort of interest in Ferrari. No other team on the grid has the tenure, and pedigree, so of course they're under a microscope. I too was never a fan during the Schumacher years, but was briefly cheering for Kimi, and subsequently Seb upon his arrival - let me be clear..."cheering" for the drivers, not the team! 

Prost was fired from Ferrari for criticizing his own car. Let that sink in for a moment. This is the type of team Ferrari was, and to a big extent, still are. Poor Sainz. Hopefully with the new cars and regulations in 2022, he becomes competitive again.

I think Seb still has a lot of potential in him, and with a good car, he's set up for success. I'm sure he knows that he has a lot to prove, and I think if he starts off at AM on the right foot, he'll prove all the naysayers wrong. I also think he's a major upgrade from Checo, but RP had the opportunity to have a Seb and Checo 1-2 that could have been consistent with points. As much as I don't like Lance, I'll admit that he's a pretty good driver with the amount of experience that he has, and with Seb on the team, he'd better be a sponge for the next few years in order to prove his worth to the team.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Ferrari, the man, is such a fascinating subject. Initially employed by Alfa, his company now owns it. A pure racer, through and through - and probably the template all others compare themselves to (RIP Team Williams, another great constructor/man).

I'm looking forward to tracking down a reasonably priced copy of this new biography by Luca Dal Monte (it's currently $171 on the zon.ca LOL). 









Enzo Ferrari


When Enzo Ferrari was born in 1898, automobiles were still a novelty in his native Italy. When he died ninety years later, the company he...



www.goodreads.com






I've read a few and quite enjoyed the Yates book from a couple of decades ago.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)




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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

How was practice today? Any stories? I was at work and haven't looked at anything.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

jayoldschool said:


> How was practice today? Any stories? I was at work and haven't looked at anything.


Largely uneventful.
ocon spun out on the last lap of q3 preventing some drivers behind him from logging a final lap. Usual guys in top 3. Back to normal


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

The big news is the maroon Ferraris.

The gravel is the edge of the track, they're not enforcing other track limits. There is a lot of gravel, it spun a few guys, Norris went into the wall. It's quite something to see a car plow through the trap at 170mph, dust clouds like an explosion, fly over the grass and continue back to the pits.

Leclerc is up near the front, Vettel barely made it out of Q1.

Stroll got an updated floor, Perez didn't. Perez beat Stroll but will swap positions because he took a one grid place penalty for having an accident with a McLaren during practice.

The Red Bulls were nearly as fast as the Mercs in qualifying.

Everyone is raving about the track. It's a pain in the neck, too many long high-speed corners.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Big mess.

And another big mess.

Could you put on your hard tires now and make it to the end? Or, there is going to be another safety car, almost certainly.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Amateur hour from Haas again.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't another safety car at some point.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Stay in the points George!!!


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

Don't worry, Grojean will take someone out. P10 for George, lol


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Soooo happy for Alex! A well deserved podium young man.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

TWRC said:


> Soooo happy for Alex! A well deserved podium young man.


Yes, well done. And should take some of the heat off.

I'd say that shows the Red Bull was up for the task today. I feel gutted for Max, he should have been at least good for second, maybe the win.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Maybe, instead of reversing the grid (which I think is artificial), they should just race on a couple new circuits every year. That seems to lead to some unusual results and is not as manipulated.

Would have loved to see Max V in the mix but the race was not without excitement - if you ignored the first two positions.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I'm on the fence about reverse grids, and do feel that it's a gimmick - but there's no doubt that it would add excitement at the cost to the teams consistently qualifying up front. However, I do think they should go to a mandatory (minimum) 2-stop race, and find some way to bring back refueling in a safe manner. I think that could shake things up quite a bit. 

Also, I know that this would never happen again, but I think that other tire manufacturers should be allowed back into F1. It would be great to see the likes of Michelin, Bridgestone, Pirelli etc in the mix on various cars.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Yes, tire manufacturer battles were a fun part of F1. Tires are singularly the most important part of the car's performance. This probably was responsible for the end of that. 









2005 United States Grand Prix - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org






*__*

Don't forget ------ the best motorsport event of the year happens this weekend. Live coverage on your Discovery Velocity channel. And running near the fall equinox instead of the summer solstice means a lot more night time racing. I love the night racing - the 911's spitting out flames, the carbon discs glowing red hot. I already told my g/f I ain't leaving the house all day Saturday and into Sunday. Sucks there's only one factory team in LMP1 again. Should be a walk for Toyota.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Well, that was fun. Even LMP1 had it's moments but some great racing in the P2 and GTE Pro classes. I got permission middle of last week and watched 17 straight hours of it. Well, not quite straight - I'd go and do other things to create a recording buffer so I could jump the incredible # of commercials (funny how they increase as you get deeper into a 24 hour commitment LOL)

The night racing was spectacular, especially as it came a couple hours earlier and ended a couple hours later than usual. The in-car shots at night just blow me away. I was just thrilled they were able to run it - I was out of the loop and only found out the weekend before, watching the F1 race.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

The night racing is absolutely terrifying at times. I can't imagine the amount of concentration it takes to go that fast under normal conditions, let alone the dark.

That was a _yawnnnnn_ of a qualifier. I don't know about you guys, but Sochi is such a boring track to me. Don't get me wrong, it's fast, but just doesn't allow for overtaking. It's more of a tire / strategy track.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Williams ahead on the number 2 Ferrari.

Did Vettel have mechanical problems or is that where they are at ?


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Seb wasn't too far off from Charles until he crashed.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

TWRC said:


> Seb wasn't too far off from Charles until he crashed.


Well that explains that... lol


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Sebastian Vettel's CV keeps growing with Ferrari - World Champion F1 Driver, Team Principal, Race Engineer, Race Strategist, Mechanic, and now Track Marshal.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

TWRC said:


> That was a _yawnnnnn_ of a qualifier. I don't know about you guys, but Sochi is such a boring track to me. Don't get me wrong, it's fast, but just doesn't allow for overtaking. It's more of a tire / strategy track.


Agreed. One of the more boring tracks. A few upcoming circuits look interesting though.


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

My takeaways from this weekend:

Hamilton thinks they're out to get him
Ricciardo's penalty response was the best ever. I'm an even bigger fan.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

jayoldschool said:


> Hamilton thinks they're out to get him


That sure rubbed me the wrong way too. And it's not the first time he's made comments like that either.
Agree that Ricciardo's response was a far better example of 'still we rise'. 
In Hamilton's defence though, they did recant on the 2 points against his license.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Kind of a mixed blessing. Lew can be publicly very bitter when things don't go his way. He's lucky that things *do* go his way the majority of time. I want to like the guy but his recent politics will alienate a few. I don't want my politics from sports stars, or pop singers, or just about anyone else not deeply invested in it.

On the other hand, I really wanted him to tie (and then beat) MS's total wins #. It will happen, but the sooner the better, IMO. After that, I don't really care. Lew is good in the car, I'll give him that. They should mute *his* mic sometimes. LOL


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

If only he had brought a team up from the gutter like MS; instead he ended up cashing in on all MS's hard work at Merc.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

jb welder said:


> If only he had brought a team up from the gutter like MS; instead he ended up cashing in on all MS's hard work at Merc.


Wait, don't you mean all of JV's hard work - at BAR --> Honda --> Brawn --> Mercedes?


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Excellent point. I'd love to see Lewis bleach his hair blonde as an homage to JV.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Big news - Honda is pulling out of F1 at the end of 2021.

There will only be 3 engine suppliers after that with no new entries on the horizon. Manufacturers are starting to wonder how relevant the new hybrid version of F1 is for them.

The F1 audience is dwindling, I'm sure, and they are stuck with the perception that they are aligned with dinosaur technology. I haven't seen a Formula E race, I don't know if that will ever catch on. It will never be as big as F1 was at it's height.



https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/f1-faces-fundamental-questions-honda-165529623.html


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Big news - Honda is pulling out of F1 at the end of 2021.


Red Bull must be absolutely livid. And the salt for the wound is that if they can't find a supplier, the obligation will fall on Renault to provide them engines. I kind of doubt that will happen, but who knows. 
Honda seems to be taking a really long view. Red Bull is on the cusp of being a world championship constructor, I suppose they still have a year together to pull it off.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> .... I haven't seen a Formula E race, I don't know if that will ever catch on. It will never be as big as F1 was at it's height.


Formula E tech and the motivation behind it leads to self driving race cars and the eventual conclusion that we should not be racing at all because it’s bad.

“Sustainability” and all that green stuff is antithetical to racing which should be about building cars and motors like screaming V12s and such which are at the limit so that they only last one race. Qualifying motors that only make it through one day are not a bad idea either.

If F1 went back to normally aspirated motors and cars like they had in the 80s or thereabouts it would still be a good series.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Formula E have power-up zones and a fan vote to give some driver a short boost.

I don't understand why Honda would back out now, they are just turning the corner, and you have to think with all the rising teams the racing will be getting better.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Hammerhands said:


> Formula E have power-up zones and a fan vote to give some driver a short boost.


Seriously? That's video game stuff. Yuch!



> I don't understand why Honda would back out now, they are just turning the corner, and you have to think with all the rising teams the racing will be getting better.


If I were to guess, I'd say 'tradition'. LOL

Remember, they sold their team to Brawn (gave it away, actually) just as the designers found the stepped diffuser design and won the WDC with Button. Honda seems to love that 'always the bridesmaid, never the bride' role.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

High/Deaf said:


> Remember, they sold their team to Brawn (gave it away, actually) just as the designers found the stepped diffuser design and won the WDC with Button. Honda seems to love that 'always the bridesmaid, never the bride' role.


I agree with this comment. I feel like Honda (and RBR) could be on the cusp of greatness here. You want F1 to be more exciting? Although unlikely, Merc should sell RBR their engines. It must really chuff Horner that he may have to deal with Cyril Irritable all over again.

Regardless of what happens there, the real question is Max. Again, highly unlikely, but Hamilton hasn't signed an agreement yet. If I were Mercedes, I'd be talking to Max right now. It would be no different than when Michael got pushed out for Kimi. Longshot I know, but a guy can dream right?


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

TWRC said:


> It must really chuff Horner that he may have to deal with Cyril Irritable all over again.


Cyril is probably having a laugh though. 
Now Marko is saying Red Bull has known Honda was pulling out for a long time.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

jb welder said:


> Cyril is probably having a laugh though.
> Now Marko is saying Red Bull has known Honda was pulling out for a long time.


Yeah, I'm assuming he's bluffing. He did also state that RBR could leave the Concorde agreement. I find that a bit hard to believe that they have an out clause.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

i was surprised by the Honda decision as well.
while embarassing for Horner, Renault seem to have their shit together now, so a new partnership may "spice up his life" as the "2 become 1" and RBR will once again prove they arent just a "wannabe" as they say "good bye" to Honda


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Diablo said:


> i was surprised by the Honda decision as well.
> while embarassing for Horner, Renault seem to have their shit together now, so a new partnership may "spice up his life" as the "2 become 1" and RBR will once again prove they arent just a "wannabe" as they say "good bye" to Honda


HAHAHAHAHA Well played!


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

TWRC said:


> Sebastian Vettel's CV keeps growing with Ferrari - World Champion F1 Driver, Team Principal, Race Engineer, Race Strategist, Mechanic, and now Track Marshal.


i know Seb tried to buy one of his old cars this year but it was too expensive...maybe he thinks the price will be right for this one in "as-is" condition?


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I heard John Deere will give him a smokin' deal on an SF1000.


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

High/Deaf said:


> Seriously? That's video game stuff. Yuch!


Not a huge difference from DRS or Push to Pass in Indy car, though. Hell, some road cars allow temp overboost for more power.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

They should go back to heel & toe the downshifts - get a bit more art back into it.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

Wardo said:


> Formula E tech and the motivation behind it leads to self driving race cars and the eventual conclusion that we should not be racing at all because it’s bad.
> 
> “Sustainability” and all that green stuff is antithetical to racing which should be about building cars and motors like screaming V12s and such which are at the limit so that they only last one race. Qualifying motors that only make it through one day are not a bad idea either.
> 
> If F1 went back to normally aspirated motors and cars like they had in the 80s or thereabouts it would still be a good series.



I'll have to disagree with some of that. Electric is not antiethical to racing. Electric, diesel electric hybrids etc are fast as hell. Check out the last decade of development in the le mans. Racing is getting from point a to point b the fastest with a certain set class of vehicle. The rum-runners would be turning in their graves with that comment !

Redbull has been pushing limits on every extreme sport, motorsport, inventing their own sports nevermind the fringe. They can all go electric too. Why not an interchangeable battery bank? If anything, redbull would be the ones to launch the series.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

TheYanChamp said:


> I'll have to disagree with some of that. Electric is not antiethical to racing. Electric, diesel electric hybrids etc are fast as hell. Check out the last decade of development in the le mans. Racing is getting from point a to point b the fastest with a certain set class of vehicle. The rum-runners would be turning in their graves with that comment !


You make it sound more 'environmentally driven' than it really is. Le Mans, for instance. ACO went into diesel tech to help Peugeot catch up to the behemoth that was Audi. The French organizing group believed Pug had better diesel tech than Audi and would catch them unprepared. Of course, it didn't work - Audi just kept on winning. But the diesel cars were interesting (tire companies had to develop special tires to handle the torque), although hardly relevant to North America's market.

The hybrid formula has chased all the constructors but one away. Toyota was the only factory entry in LPM1 the last two years. Maybe good for the environment but a slow death to the greatest race of the year. I don't see the hybrid era lasting much longer, unless some other factories come and play. The environment is way down the list on what racing fans think is important to the sport.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Racing is the process of turning money into noise.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Noise is wasted power.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeah, but it makes you drive faster ..lol


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Speaking of noise. I'd give almost anything for F1 to go back to the V10/12's.


----------



## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

High/Deaf said:


> You make it sound more 'environmentally driven' than it really is. I didn't assume it was to be environmentally friendly.



How? I don't think racing should be beholden to environmental regulations. The goal is to go around the track faster than the other guys, period. Torque from a diesel combined with electric is/was worth researching, and they took it , look at trains for example. I don't know a lot about the their configuration though, was the diesel the main drive with supplimental motors or more like a train engine, genny powering a motor.

But electric cars are fast, and could be faster. Have you ever driven a tesla? Its like nothing else.

Four years ago:








Dominant Audi racing team dumps diesel hybrids for electric power


Audi will stop racing at the 24 Hours of Le Mans, and focus on Formula E instead.




www.greencarreports.com





I don't know whats current, don't follow it much.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

TheYanChamp said:


> But electric cars are fast, and could be faster. Have you ever driven a tesla? Its like nothing else.


Never driven a Tesla but I’ve driven lots of race cars around tracks in Ontario.
Electric cars are fast in a straight line and they have instant torque. But a tesla weighs about as much as an SUV and the battery itself weighs about 1200 pounds.

The weight is a problem for handling and it is also a problem for braking; the brakes will be burned after a few corners and fade to nothing from overheating - so you won’t have any brakes or you will have to greatly extend your braking zone which makes a slow lap time. Time is in the corners - how late you can leave your braking, how well your brakes work and how nimble the car is.

My guess is that a Tesla, while fast in a straight line, would not turn a very fast lap time around a racetrack because it would be too heavy and not perform well with regard to braking and handling.


----------



## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

Wardo said:


> Never driven a Tesla but I’ve driven lots of race cars around tracks in Ontario.
> Electric cars are fast in a straight line and they have instant torque. But a tesla weighs about as much as an SUV and the battery itself weighs about 1200 pounds.
> 
> The weight is a problem for handling and it is also a problem for braking; the brakes will be burned after a few corners and fade to nothing from overheating - so you won’t have any brakes or you will have to greatly extend your braking zone which makes a slow lap time. Time is in the corners - how late you can leave your braking, how well your brakes work and how nimble the car is.
> ...


Yes, but AWD and instant torque helps you get out of those corners faster, so you make up some of the braking time. I don't think you understand how fast they accellerate. Its like taking off in a silent rocket and leaves you grabbing for the holy shit bar real fast, if you can reach it.

Can't take musks work as gospel, but he has achieved an enormous amount in very distinct fields.

_"The 2020 next-gen Roadster is expected to be one of the fastest cars available to the general public. With a 250+ mph top speed, 620 miles of range and a blistering-fast 1.9-second 0-60 mph acceleration rate, Musk has a reason to believe that it will hold the fastest time at the Green Hell. During the vehicle’s unveiling, Musk described the Roadster as Tesla’s “hardcore smackdown” to gasoline-powered cars. Its specs suggest that this will likely be the case. "_

That's why technology is awesome, the bar is limitless.









Tesla Model 3 with mods nearly takes out McLaren F1 lap time at famed Japanese race circuit


A Tesla Model 3 Performance with street-legal tires and a series of Unplugged Performance bolt-on modifications registered a nearly identical lap time as the McLaren F1 supercar at the famed Tsukuba Circuit in Japan. The upgraded but street-driven Unplugged Performance Model 3 owned by Erik...




www.teslarati.com





Model S specs:



PowertrainCombined powerN/ACombined torqueN/AEngineElectricPower503 hp @ 6,150 rpm (375 kW)Torque487 lb·ft @ 0 rpm (660 N·m)EngineElectricPower259 hp @ 6,100 rpm (193 kW)Torque243 lb·ft @ 0 rpm (329 N·m)TransmissionSingle-speedDrivetrainAWD

Two motors - 762 HP combined, 730 lb-ft combined - zero power band.

The roadster will be ridiculous once its out.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeah, they seem fast.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

TheYanChamp said:


> How? I don't think racing should be beholden to environmental regulations. The goal is to go around the track faster than the other guys, period. Torque from a diesel combined with electric is/was worth researching, and they took it , look at trains for example. I don't know a lot about the their configuration though, was the diesel the main drive with supplimental motors or more like a train engine, genny powering a motor.


Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the change. Those diesels were monsters. Amazing tech. But it was more political than environmentally driven. 

And it was prime diesel power with electric assist. The diesels made the majority of the power, the electric was added for force and finesse. For example, the Audis left the pits only on electric power, and then at pit exit the diesel spun up. They are not allowed to spin their wheels in the pits, so I think the electric power was easier to modulate, a la traction control. Toyota still does this, electric only out of the pits.



> But electric cars are fast, and could be faster. Have you ever driven a tesla? Its like nothing else.
> 
> Four years ago:
> 
> ...


Yes, they can be very quick. Electric cars have a lot of advantages, not the least of which is instant torque. They do have their disadvantages, too, as @Wardo pointed out. 

I think the first Tesla, basically a Lotus Elise with Elon's electric drivetrain, handled well, but wasn't that outright fast. Here's a pic of one of each.










It's a balance between stored energy and weight. Batteries have a ways to go there, but it's development opportunities are far greater than fossil fuels, which have been developed to the last little bit they can be. In the long run, electric cars will be the norm. They will happen when the technology makes it logical. It gets closer all the time.


----------



## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

TSN with poor timing on these commercials.

The cars are breaking in the cold and damp.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Wardo said:


> Yeah, they seem fast.


And at the same time, they make fast feel boring.
id love to know the demographics of Tesla buyers...what they owned previously.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Diablo said:


> And at the same time, they make fast feel boring.
> id love to know the demographics of Tesla buyers...what they owned previously.


Hans Stuck at the ring.






My business partner has a Tesla SUV; two years ago she had a Jag SUV and two years before that a Lexus SUV ... lol


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

FYI the Goodwood Festival is live streaming on YouTube this weekend.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

LewHam with 92 wins, a new record. And more to come, I would say.

One more than Schumacher*. Too bad he couldn't be there for the event. His son, Mick, presented a gift after win 91 (the tie).




*Maybe more, depending on how you see the 2 Austrias or 1997.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I gotta say some of these late season 'colder weather' races are interesting, as teams have trouble turning on their tires. Suddenly, what the hell, there's a McLaren passing both Mercs for the lead? Of course things settle back down, but it gives us glimpses of what-if. 

Not quite as artificial as flooding the track or reversing the grid, maybe they need to race more in 10 - 15C.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> I gotta say some of these late season 'colder weather' races are interesting, as teams have trouble turning on their tires. Suddenly, what the hell, there's a McLaren passing both Mercs for the lead? Of course things settle back down, but it gives us glimpses of what-if.
> 
> Not quite as artificial as flooding the track or reversing the grid, maybe they need to race more in 10 - 15C.


I'm also enjoying the new tracks.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I tried watching the highlights from Portugal. The coverage was from the UK and it consisted of some oik screaming his head off while Martin Brundle I think it was tried to get in a word or two here and there. Totally annoying, I turned it off after about two minutes.

Best announcers that I can recall were a couple of guys from Quebec covering the Canadian Grand Prix. They just discussed it in normal conversation and at one point there was a car slamming down through the gears as it approached a tight corner. Both announcers stopped talking to listen to the car and then chuckled a bit as it started accelerating away.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> LewHam with 92 wins, a new record. And more to come, I would say.
> 
> One more than Schumacher*. Too bad he couldn't be there for the event. His son, Mick, presented a gift after win 91 (the tie).


Congrats Lewis. And classy move by Mick.


----------



## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

The racing isn't great, but I realize it is the total number of moments that make a race interesting.

Hamilton getting the safety car, Verstappen blow-out, Stroll runs over the jack-man, Russell pulls a Grosjean. Here's Ricciardo in 3rd.

TSN went to commercial immediately after Max dropped it. So bad.


----------



## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Albon sealed his fate, not with Red Bull. Poor Russell.


----------



## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Just finished watching the GP. I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it. Lance Stroll is straight up garbage. Checo had amazing pace, shame about the strategy though.

Tough luck for Max, but I'll never get tired of seeing Danny on the podium, and to see Lewis doing that shoe-y with him was hilarious.

Albon's done. I'm mega bummed for Russell and Gasly - I think Pierre had such a good chance to podium today.


----------



## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

Albon: someone spun me
Simon: uhh, no, no one hit you

Awkward, lol

So good to see Danny Ric up there. I feel bad for Lance, he hasn't been the same since he had to sit out.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

TWRC said:


> Just finished watching the GP. I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it. Lance Stroll is straight up garbage.


Hey! I came here to crow about how Lance managed to beat Four Time World Champion Sebastian Vettel, but I see you beat me to it. 



> I think Pierre had such a good chance to podium today.


Me too. I'd like to see him in Bottas' seat.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm a bit bummed for Bottas. If he weren't leading (usually a good thing), he probably wouldn't have been the one to hit the stuff on the track and screw up his aero. They guy can't buy any luck.

And the 'perfect safety car' for Lewis. What more can you say? Valteri needs to pray to a different god, me thinks. 




Hammerhands said:


> TSN with poor timing on these commercials.





Hammerhands said:


> TSN went to commercial immediately after Max dropped it. So bad.


You and I are seeing the same thing. It's like they couldn't pick a worse time to cut to commercial. I'm starting to assume there is no human intervention, just some bot that slaps in a commy every 12min 30sec or so. Pathetic. 

Or maybe they're baseball/football/hockey fans and really don't understand racing. Yea, that could be it, too.


----------



## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

If only TSN had access to Sky Sports' F1 feed...oh wait...

Hmmm, I never thought of Gasly being in a Merc seat, but that would be a pretty cool lineup with George. I woke up this morning, still feeling gutted for George and Williams.


----------



## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Oh, one more comment about my disdain for Stroll. He cited "cold brakes" as the reason why he ran over one of his mechanics. I call BS on that. Most likely due to lack of focus - the kid's confidence is shot, and if Vettel can't pull that team together in 2021, they'll end up being the next Ferrari. What a shame, because they could have had a great driver lineup with Checo.

I'm sure the unheard radio went like this: 
"Dad, I killed a mechanic"
"Don't worry son, I'll buy you a new one, and pit Checo when he hits P3"


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

TWRC said:


> Oh, one more comment about my disdain for Stroll. He cited "cold brakes" as the reason why he ran over one of his mechanics. I call BS on that. Most likely due to lack of focus - the kid's confidence is shot


Another thing was when they released the lapped cars from behind the safety car. Someone screwed up and they did it prematurely, the marshalls were still out on the track. 
Lance passed the marshalls at full race speed. From what I gather, all the others who were released slowed down when they saw the marshalls. Not cool.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> Yeah, they seem fast.


On the track, going pedal to the metal, how long will a charge last and how long will it take to recharge I can see really long pit stops on short races.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> On the track, going pedal to the metal, how long will a charge last and how long will it take to recharge I can see really long pit stops on short races.


I think with Formula E or whatever it’s called they pit and swap the battery same as tires. Obviously not something that’s easy to do with a production car being raced.

Either way electric race cars suck and from an amateur perspective how can you drive to the track, race and then drive home which is what you could do with the Players Thirdgens.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> I think with Formula E or whatever it’s called they pit and swap the battery same as tires. Obviously not something that’s easy to do with a production car being raced.
> 
> Either way electric race cars suck and from an amateur perspective how can you drive to the track, race and then drive home which is what you could do with the Players Thirdgens.


Duct tape....and a damned big truck.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

TWRC said:


> I'll never get tired of seeing Danny on the podium, and to see Lewis doing that shoe-y with him was hilarious.





jayoldschool said:


> So good to see Danny Ric up there.


I'm wondering how he's feeling about leaving Renault now. I'm sure 'Nando is really starting to like where this is going.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Zak Brown is a great salesman. I think he was able to lure Daniel over to McLaren based on the direction they are going. I think the McLaren team has shown a pretty good upward trajectory, and one that I personally think is more consistent than Renault, despite only being separated by 1 point at the moment. Pair their current development with their upcoming Mercedes reunion, and I think you have a recipe for some magic. I think Daniel made the right decision, this is an upward move, whereas when he left RBR to join Renault, I felt like that was a downgrade.

I think Fernando is frothing at the mouth right now. The car is great, Ocon is underachieving, he's going to look great by comparison.

Question is, how is Carlos Sainz feeling right now?! HAHA. I feel for Carlos, but he and Leclerc are going to make a great team, and if Ferrari manages to turn things around, they're going to be back in the constructor's fight in no time.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Great qualifying session. Stroll has always been handy in the wet, too bad he can't carry that over to dry.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I can't wait to see Stroll not make podium tomorrow.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Maybe it will rain 😀


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Personally I hope Lance proves us all wrong.  Even if he can stay ahead of Perez that will signify a great improvement for him.
Congrats to Lance Stroll, shocker of a 1st Pole position in his F1 career.


----------



## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

YESSSSSS That was a fun race! SO happy for Checo, getting his podium redemption. Can't wait to see him in the Red Bull seat next year. 

I'm most happy for Seb though. He needed this, and drove a hell of a race today. That was a fun first and last lap!

I'm also going to quote myself, and leave this here:



TWRC said:


> Lance Stroll is straight up garbage.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

TWRC said:


> I'm most happy for Seb though. He needed this, and drove a hell of a race today. That was a fun first and last lap!


That was so good to see. Hopefully Ferrari's working so much better in these conditions (both cars, all weekend) help them figure something out.

At risk of sounding like a Lance apologist (not the case at all), I think he may have got the short end of the strategy stick this time. Lewis said something about the worn Inters serving to bridge the gap between a bit dry for the Inters but not yet dry enough for slicks. He seemed to figure they helped him. When they called Lance in for his second stop (to get fresh Inters), he asked 'why?'. The stop cost him time with no benefit.
Checo go to stay out on a one stop strategy and it paid off.
A bit more rain and it could have went the other way for them, luck of the draw I guess (and not trying to say Lance is anywhere near Perez' capability).


----------



## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

It's hard to say. I think they had the data to bring him in, and even Hamilton mentioned that if it started raining again, he would have had to box. 

What I don't understand is how Lance had so much graining, and lost so much pace on the inters, when everyone else out there on either worn or fresh inters didn't lose as much pace as he did. So I can't blame his finish entirely on the stop.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I think Lance was screaming for new tires (thus the stop) but he was thinking slicks, not another set of intermediates. I think slicks would have been even worse, and as it played out, turning your inter's into slicks was the fastest way to the end. Checo and Lewis got it right, Lance's inexperience hurt him (he was quick when the car was on the right tires in the right conditions).

Credit to Lewis Hamilton. Not my fave out there, but the guy is quick and smart. What a great way to win your 7th WDC. One to remember. And he ain't done yet, although the 'contract talks' is an interesting spin. What's he angling for?


----------



## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Agreed, slicks would have been way worse! His car could have been set up to chew those tires up quite a bit as well, hence the graining on the inters. The fact that he questioned his team shows his inexperience. As much as I dislike Lance, I think he could stand to learn a lot from Seb next year, and I would be willing bet he's going to become a lot more consistent (still not as good as Checo).

I also said the same thing about Max yesterday, in regards to his lack of patience. He could have won that race yesterday had he paced himself. It's one thing to be aggressive, and another thing to be on the limit. I mean, look at Seb, and his experience, he overtook Charles on the last lap because Charles panicked. I still think Seb's poor pitstop could have costed him P2. I'll stop gushing over Seb now. haha

Credit where credit is due! LH is a dominant force, and we often fail to remember that this guy has had some dud cars too. Say what you will about him, but there's no denying that he's one of the best drivers in F1 history. As for his contract, I think it's just a bit of a cat and mouse game right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if Mercedes was looking towards the future, with younger drivers in mind. It happened to the likes of Schumi, Alonso, so Lewis isn't immune to being replaced. Can you imagine Bono saying to Russell "Get in there George"?!?! I'd be pretty stoked to see a new driver lineup at Mercedes.


----------



## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Racing Point just released this on Twitter 3 hours ago:

"UPDATE: During the team’s routine post-race car set down, we discovered damage to the underside of 
@lance_stroll's front wing that was a significant contributor to the graining issues he experienced during his 2nd and 3rd stints on the intermediate tyres at the #TurkishGP."

I don't buy it. How did he get front wing damage while in clean air / leading the pack? I think his aero folks would have known about the front wing damage during the race, and not a day later.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I'll never be convinced that most of the difference between the top 20 drivers in the world comes down to the car. These guys are lapping within 1 second of each other most of the time, it just blows me away. There will always be standouts, Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton, Rosberg (had he stuck it out), and I'll put Villeneuve in that mix, but without the perfect car 7 WC's would not be in the running for any of them.


----------



## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Agreed. Look at Hamilton v. Bottas. They arguably have the best cars on the grid, and yesterday was a prime example of amazing driver v. so-so driver.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

TWRC said:


> Racing Point just released this on Twitter 3 hours ago:
> 
> "UPDATE: During the team’s routine post-race car set down, we discovered damage to the underside of
> @lance_stroll's front wing that was a significant contributor to the graining issues he experienced during his 2nd and 3rd stints on the intermediate tyres at the #TurkishGP."
> ...


Looks like I couldn't have been more wrong (about the Stroll strategy). 
Sounds like it wasn't 'damage' but more like starting to come apart:
"_One of the strakes on the underside of the front wing had come loose and lodged itself in such a way that the blockage caused a significant loss of front downforce. The resultant loss of front downforce contributed to increased levels of graining_." 

And another big 'well done!' going out to Lewis, both for the major accomplishment and for not being able to keep his word about the 'not crying' promise.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

TWRC said:


> Racing Point just released this on Twitter 3 hours ago:
> 
> "UPDATE: During the team’s routine post-race car set down, we discovered damage to the underside of
> @lance_stroll's front wing that was a significant contributor to the graining issues he experienced during his 2nd and 3rd stints on the intermediate tyres at the #TurkishGP."
> ...


Lance did say something about it in his post-race interview. He also said they needed to look into the difference on how the two cars used their tires at the half-way point. So he A) could have been paving the path for the team excuse or B) really had the problem. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And I can see how slipping and sliding over curbs can shake something lose or dislodge something. Not beyond the realm of possibility, IMO.



davetcan said:


> I'll never be convinced that most of the difference between the top 20 drivers in the world comes down to the car. These guys are lapping within 1 second of each other most of the time, it just blows me away. There will always be standouts, Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton, Rosberg (had he stuck it out), and I'll put Villeneuve in that mix, but without the perfect car 7 WC's would not be in the running for any of them.


The only guy I might put at the top of that list is Fangio. Five WDC's in five different cars. And it took something like 4 decades to match that total. He was a class of 1, IMO, but so hard to compared drivers and sports with 50 years of changes in the middle.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> The only guy I might put at the top of that list is Fangio. Five WDC's in five different cars. And it took something like 4 decades to match that total. He was a class of 1, IMO, but so hard to compared drivers and sports with 50 years of changes in the middle.


I agree, I was thinking more "modern era"  Stirling Moss and Jackie Stewart were also personal favourites.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Fangio was not young either.

As for Stroll, I have not taken much notice of him and from what I gather he’s not all that great but to have put it on pole in the rain and lead for some of the race will certainly bring him up a notch or two in terms of confidence and that might lead to further improvement to the extent that he may become a decent journeyman driver some day.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> The only guy I might put at the top of that list is Fangio. Five WDC's in five different cars. And it took something like 4 decades to match that total. He was a class of 1, IMO, but so hard to compared drivers and sports with 50 years of changes in the middle.


I think Jim Clark belongs right up there at the top as well. Another taken to soon to know how much more they could have achieved.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Jesus!, I'll leave it at that for those not watching live.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Thank you for the "no spoiler". It _was_ with caution that I clicked this thread. Sounds like I better fire up the ol' PVR, eh? LOL


----------



## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

One does not click on the F1 thread before watching the F1.

That should dispel any of the remaining halo haters opinions.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Gutted for Checo. Wonder if these kind of performances mean he is actually less likely for Red Bull? (if Max has much say)


----------



## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

jb welder said:


> Gutted for Checo. Wonder if these kind of performances mean he is actually less likely for Red Bull? (if Max has much say)


That and if one believes that it is still Albon's seat to lose and can put in a couple of more results in the top 5.


----------



## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Finally watched the race. I've been avoiding everything today. My goodness, I'm amazed that Grosjean was able to walk away from that crash. Had that accident happened 10 years ago, I'm sure he'd be dead - a true testament to this sport, and the tech behind it (halo and all). 

I am SOOOO gutted for Checo. Somebody give Otmar a hug, it was heartbreaking seeing him at pit wall all by himself, holding his head in his hands.

I like to joke about Albon, but he's such a loveable kid, and I'm happy he got another podium. It was about time we saw two Red Bulls up on that podium.

Speaking of another guy I like to joke about, how about that Stroll??? I do admit, he had the racing line there - Kvyat 'The Torpedo' just being Kvyat.

I'm just happy that my PVR ran out a minute after the chequered flag. That was a marathon!


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

jayoldschool said:


> One does not click on the F1 thread before watching the F1.
> 
> That should dispel any of the remaining halo haters opinions.


Yep. That had echoes of Helmut Koinigg at Watkins Glen in 1974 (recreated in the movie 'Rush'). I admit I was initially critical of the halo but am a full believer now.

And a moment that was close to the tragic event that killed Tom Pryce in 1977, after Lance's accident. Yikes!

Grosjean shoulda bought a gross of lottery tickets yesterday (not that he probably needs the money). I'm glad he's OK but pretty sure we won't see him in the next couple of weeks. Cue Hulkenburg?


----------



## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

High/Deaf said:


> Cue Hulkenburg?


Haas has announced that they are calling up Pietro Fittipaldi for this weekend and will let Grosjean decide when or if he is ready to return


----------



## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

Fittipaldi will replace Grosjean for next weekend


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Hamilton has COVID-19


----------



## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Perez has a presser today.


----------



## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Please sweet baby yeezus let George Russell be Lewis' replacement for Sakhir.

I hope Perez found a drive. Honestly, I think his opportunity with Red Bull is gone, but Haas still has one seat available after signing Mazepin.


----------



## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Imagine how many drivers want that seat.


----------



## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

ZeroGravity said:


> Perez has a presser today.


Checo's press conference was a non-event. He just repeated what has already been said or speculated in (social) media and confirmed nothing. No confirmed Red Bull seat, potential to be a reserve driver for 2021 (team not mentioned although rumoured to be Ferrari) and already been approached about possible 2022 seat.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

ZeroGravity said:


> Haas has announced that they are calling up Pietro Fittipaldi for this weekend and will let Grosjean decide when or if he is ready to return


I have a feeling that was the end of Grosjeans f1 driving career.

anyone care to speculate what caused his accident? I can’t figure it out and no ones talking about it.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Diablo said:


> I have a feeling that was the end of Grosjeans f1 driving career.
> 
> anyone care to speculate what caused his accident? I can’t figure it out and no ones talking about it.


From what I could see he was just trying to make a sharp move to the right but I couldn't tell if he hit the other car while doing it. Looked like either something broke or he just lost all traction, kind of odd. There was also speculation, and video evidence, that a piece of Stroll's car went directly under his right front tire just before all this happened.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

TWRC said:


> Finally watched the race. I've been avoiding everything today. My goodness, I'm amazed that Grosjean was able to walk away from that crash. Had that accident happened 10 years ago, I'm sure he'd be dead - a true testament to this sport, and the tech behind it (halo and all).
> 
> I am SOOOO gutted for Checo. Somebody give Otmar a hug, it was heartbreaking seeing him at pit wall all by himself, holding his head in his hands.
> 
> ...


To me, Stroll was 60% to blame on that one...you can’t cut across a corner like that as if there’s no one else on the track....and hes done that more than once. He may have technically had the line but he had better visibility of kvyat than DanI would have had of him.
shouldnt have been a penalty imo, just a racing incident.

sucked for Perez although I remember him being an ass to his teammate Ocon a couple years ago so I don’t feel too badly for him. He’s definitely going to get another seat, if he wants it, rest assured. Plus he brings a big sponsor with him,

albon has had a tough season. not sure he deserves the RB spot...alpha tauri may be the more desirable place to hone your skills, as it’s worked well for gasly...a slightly slower but much more manageable car. Max took a shot at him after the race...








Max Verstappen not impressed with Albon's podium | PlanetF1


Alex Albon may have finished third in Bahrain but Max Verstappen doesn't feel running "40 seconds behind your team-mate is very good".




www.planetf1.com


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Diablo said:


> I have a feeling that was the end of Grosjeans f1 driving career.
> 
> anyone care to speculate what caused his accident? I can’t figure it out and no ones talking about it.


Hard to say but he’s going to be rethinking the concept of mortality after that one. Apparently he has 3 kids each of which would have been costing him a tenth per lap as Enzo Ferrari described it. His wife will have something to say about this as well.

As you will know, Lauda came back from much worse and Berger had a nasty fire in the Ferrari but got away with it just some burns to his hands.

As for Grosjean, there has been a lot said about how safe the car was but bottom line is that he was just lucky that he wasn’t pinned in the car by a piece of the barrier or that it didn’t go inverted like Price’s car did. Or like Kubitza who got ripped up by the barrier in his rally crash.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Wardo said:


> Hard to say but he’s going to be rethinking the concept of mortality after that one. Apparently he has 3 kids each of which would have been costing him a tenth per lap as Enzo Ferrari described it. His wife will have something to say about this as well.
> 
> As you will know, Lauda came back from much worse and Berger had a nasty fire in the Ferrari but got away with it just some burns to his hands.
> 
> As for Grosjean, there has been a lot said about how safe the car was but bottom line is that he was just lucky that he wasn’t pinned in the car by a piece of the barrier or that it didn’t go inverted like Price’s car did. Or like Kubitza who got ripped up by the barrier in his rally crash.


Ya, I recall seeing romain sitting after a crash last year, visibly crying...I think he’s just lost his nerve, and this could be the final straw. Family often figures into that. I turned soft after my kid was born.
also, he’s not a young guy, relatively speaking, he crashes a lot, and he doesn’t have a contract.
I think it could be time to hang up the helmet. I just dont think he has the mental tenacity others had.

kubica was lucky...the guardrail nearly impaled him. Sad story as well, lot of potential before that.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Did you see Kubica’s crash in Montreal; his feet were exposed after the front came off and the car was flying through the air. Some drivers have a lot more iron than others and can come back from serious injury. I remember Hobbes talking about it as he was commentating on a race and saying that he never had to face that. Lauda described driving the car as “wrestling with the demon that lurks in all of them.”


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Diablo said:


> I have a feeling that was the end of Grosjeans f1 driving career.
> 
> anyone care to speculate what caused his accident? I can’t figure it out and no ones talking about it.


 Pretty certain that his F1 career was done long before the accident. Old by F1 standards, not a particularly impressive record, not a paid driver on a bottom rung team loads of other talent available means his days on a F1 seat are over.

Give it another week or two and the driver error will come out unless Haas can point to some mechanical failure. It looked like he expected the Alpha Romeo to come hard right back onto the track into him and he moved abruptly across Kyvat.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Diablo said:


> To me, Stroll was 60% to blame on that one...you can’t cut across a corner like that as if there’s no one else on the track....and hes done that more than once. He may have technically had the line but he had better visibility of kvyat than DanI would have had of him.
> shouldnt have been a penalty imo, just a racing incident.
> 
> sucked for Perez although I remember him being an ass to his teammate Ocon a couple years ago so I don’t feel too badly for him. He’s definitely going to get another seat, if he wants it, rest assured. Plus he brings a big sponsor with him,
> ...


I think the penalty was warranted. If you watch the footage, not only did Stroll have the line, but Kvyat hesitated coming into that corner, knowing that he didn't have the line, and was going to get squeezed out.

Perez's chances are getting thin. I guess we'll see what the offseason brings at RBR. I do agree that Albon would be better suited at AT, as he and Gasly would make a great team.

I don't blame Max for that shot, as he's not wrong at all. Mind you, with the source being Ziggo Sport, they pay Max for headlines, so you almost have to laugh about the comment - they're like the Fox News of motorsports.

I'm beyond thrilled right now. After Alfa Romeo signed Kimi and Antonio, it looked like Mick Schumacher's chances of getting into Formula 1 next year were done and dusted, but I'm happy to see him sign with Haas. In addition to Mazepin-the-loose-cannon (disappointed they didn't sign Ilott), they're going to be an exciting team to watch next year.

On top of this, RUSSELL TO MERCEDES!!!!!!!!! I'll be happy to see him finish in the points in Lewis' car, but it would be hilarious if he were to out-qualify and beat Bottas then get on the radio to say "to my critics, to whom it may concern, f**k you". A guy can dream right???


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

It certainly has been a hell of a week in F1.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

ZeroGravity said:


> It certainly has been a hell of a week in F1.


No kidding! I wish we had 20 more races this season - I'm sad that this season is coming to an end.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

TWRC said:


> I think the penalty was warranted. If you watch the footage, not only did Stroll have the line, but Kvyat hesitated coming into that corner, knowing that he didn't have the line, and was going to get squeezed out.
> 
> Perez's chances are getting thin. I guess we'll see what the offseason brings at RBR. I do agree that Albon would be better suited at AT, as he and Gasly would make a great team.
> 
> ...


Ive watched the replays many times, and Im still seeing what the commentators saw...Stroll coming across from the other side, carelessly jamming Kvyat, with Kvyat having no place to go. If he hadnt hit Kvyat, he likely could have hit someone else. Sometimes being too stubborn about having the right of way may cause an accident, needlessly. If i always asserted my R.O.W on the road, I would have killed 20 people by now lol. Put another way, its not a move I would expect to see by a more skilled, seasoned driver, like say Riccardo. Giving the penalty to Kvyat, may be counterproductive as I think this should be a learning experience for Stroll as well.

Max isnt wrong in his assessment...kind of a dickhead thing to do/say about a teammate though. Theres almost no other sport where you can get away with trashing your team in the media lol

Im looking forward to seeing what Russell can do in a better car. I havent bought into the hype about him as much as many others seem to. I know hes in a terrible car, but I havent seen anything special about him at the F1 level yet. he's great at video games though


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

TWRC said:


> No kidding! I wish we had 20 more races this season - I'm sad that this season is coming to an end.


the gap between f1 and NHL is going to feel eternal....I think I will miss F1 more than I have NHL, truthfully.
im done with this esports shit though.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Diablo said:


> Im looking forward to seeing what Russell can do in a better car. I havent bought into the hype about him as much as many others seem to


Promise and potential have to show through even when in a disadvantaged situation. I agree that I haven't seen that yet in Russell. A lot of pressure on the kid this weekend to perform to his expected potential. He's had 20 or so races in F1 so he has a base of experience to work from and needs to make the most of it. A good driver can get decent results out of an average car, but a bad driver can't out of a good car.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

Diablo said:


> Ive watched the replays many times, and Im still seeing what the commentators saw...Stroll coming across from the other side, carelessly jamming Kvyat, with Kvyat having no place to go. If he hadnt hit Kvyat, he likely could have hit someone else. Sometimes being too stubborn about having the right of way may cause an accident, needlessly. If i always asserted my R.O.W on the road, I would have killed 20 people by now lol. Put another way, its not a move I would expect to see by a more skilled, seasoned driver, like say Riccardo. Giving the penalty to Kvyat, may be counterproductive as I think this should be a learning experience for Stroll as well.
> 
> Max isnt wrong in his assessment...kind of a dickhead thing to do/say about a teammate though. Theres almost no other sport where you can get away with trashing your team in the media lol
> 
> Im looking forward to seeing what Russell can do in a better car. I havent bought into the hype about him as much as many others seem to. I know hes in a terrible car, but I havent seen anything special about him at the F1 level yet. he's great at video games though


I guess that's the fun with racing these cars. There's no doubt that Lance exhibited his ROW, I do think Kvyat had the ability to squeeze through that corner. Maybe someone should get Lance some new mirrors for Christmas? I always love crapping on that kid, so I actually can't believe that I'm defending him here. HAHA

Max is a teammate killer, fullstop. I think the only way to keep Max at bay is to put someone more consistent in that car points-wise _cough_ Checo Perez _cough_.

In the few races I saw, Russell was brilliant in F2. So I hope some of that transfers to Sakhir. Wouldn't it be funny to see him score his first F1 point in something other than a Williams?



Diablo said:


> the gap between f1 and NHL is going to feel eternal....I think I will miss F1 more than I have NHL, truthfully.
> im done with this esports shit though.


I agree. I'll definitely miss F1 more than NHL (Oiler fan here).



ZeroGravity said:


> Promise and potential have to show through even when in a disadvantaged situation. I agree that I haven't seen that yet in Russell. A lot of pressure on the kid this weekend to perform to his expected potential. He's had 20 or so races in F1 so he has a base of experience to work from and needs to make the most of it. A good driver can get decent results out of an average car, but a bad driver can't out of a good car.


I totally agree with all of that. This is his chance to prove to everyone that he deserves that seat after Bottas' contract is up (let's face it, Lewis will sign with Mercedes). But what about a good driver with a REALLY bad car?


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I got a big laugh out of these tweets this morning. Love the camaraderie that these guys have for one another.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

TWRC said:


> But what about a good driver with a REALLY bad car?


As much as Williams and Haas are at the bottom and Alfa not a lot ahead of them, there are no "really" bad cars, at least not that I would say. While they might not win races, you can see what good drivers are capable of in just about anything on a relative scale to those at the same level. I'd wager Hamilton in a Haas or a Williams would consistently be in front of Russell, Latifi, Magnussen, Grosjean frequently Giovanzzi, Raikonnen and probably have moments against others like Kvyat or even Stroll just on skill alone.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

TWRC said:


> it looked like Mick Schumacher's chances of getting into Formula 1 next year were done and dusted, but I'm happy to see him sign with Haas. In addition to Mazepin-the-loose-cannon (disappointed they didn't sign Ilott), they're going to be an exciting team to watch next year.


Wonder if we'll see him in Grosjean's seat for Abu Dhabi? Or Mazepin or even Hulkenberg?


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

jb welder said:


> Wonder if we'll see him in Grosjean's seat for Abu Dhabi? Or Mazepin or even Hulkenberg?


Fittipaldi is replacement for Grosjean as far as I know?


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

bigboki said:


> Fittipaldi is replacement for Grosjean as far as I know?


Fittipaldi for Sakhir but I would bet that Grosjean and Haas will do just about anything to get his last race, most likely ever, in at Abu Dhabi, even if he can't complete a full race.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

ZeroGravity said:


> As much as Williams and Haas are at the bottom and Alfa not a lot ahead of them, there are no "really" bad cars, at least not that I would say. While they might not win races, you can see what good drivers are capable of in just about anything on a relative scale to those at the same level. I'd wager Hamilton in a Haas or a Williams would consistently be in front of Russell, Latifi, Magnussen, Grosjean frequently Giovanzzi, Raikonnen and probably have moments against others like Kvyat or even Stroll just on skill alone.


I was just kidding, but there's definitely merit to all of your points. For example, we've seen glimpses of what Kimi could do in that AR this season. We've even seen some apples to apples comparisons as well, where Hamilton has proven that he's just a superior driver to Bottas in arguably the same car. A couple of examples that come to mind was Monza where Hamilton served his penalty, was relegated to the back of the grid, but still managed to finish in P7, versus Bottas getting stuck in the midfield, and not being able to overtake (Turkey, Bahrain). It always makes me laugh when the commentators say that the Mercs aren't set up to overtake.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

ZeroGravity said:


> Fittipaldi for Sakhir but I would bet that Grosjean and Haas will do just about anything to get his last race, most likely ever, in at Abu Dhabi, even if he can't complete a full race.


There's already chatter about how Grosjean wants to race in Abu Dhabi. I'd love to see that, as it would be an amazing send off for him.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

TWRC said:


> It always makes me laugh when the commentators say that the Mercs aren't set up to overtake.


I get it. I think Hamilton could go out in a Fiat Panda and still show his skills. The Mercedes underperfoming in a crowd didn't seem to affect Hamilton all that much coming back from 6-7 places to win.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Wardo said:


> Hard to say but he’s going to be rethinking the concept of mortality after that one. Apparently he has 3 kids each of which would have been costing him a tenth per lap as Enzo Ferrari described it. His wife will have something to say about this as well.
> 
> As you will know, Lauda came back from much worse and Berger had a nasty fire in the Ferrari but got away with it just some burns to his hands.
> 
> As for Grosjean, there has been a lot said about how safe the car was but bottom line is that he was just lucky that he wasn’t pinned in the car by a piece of the barrier or that it didn’t go inverted like Price’s car did. Or like Kubitza who got ripped up by the barrier in his rally crash.


Even luckier he didn't pass out. Somewhere in the race (I think Brundle), I heard an estimate of something like 15 Gs of decel. If he couldn't self-extricate, I don't see others getting to him in that inferno and that wouldn't have ended well.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Diablo said:


> the gap between f1 and NHL is going to feel eternal....I think I will miss F1 more than I have NHL, truthfully.
> im done with this esports shit though.


The best hockey IMO, the Juniors tournament, happens before the NHL starts this year. I hope. I get my fix in then, and it's usually enough.


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

TWRC said:


> There's already chatter about how Grosjean wants to race in Abu Dhabi. I'd love to see that, as it would be an amazing send off for him.


If I were Haas, I wouldn't let him back in a car. He has cost them a lot of money this year. Sentimentality aside...


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

bigboki said:


> Fittipaldi is replacement for Grosjean as far as I know?


Yes, but because Mick and Mazepin are busy with F2 final. They are free for Abu Dhabi.
That being said, I agree with the others that Haas will try to get Grosjean back there for the last race if at all possible.
In spite of how much he has cost them, Steiner's attitude toward him has sure improved , and I'm sure everybody would like to see Grosjean do that last race. 

@High/Deaf , Grosjean mentioned something about taking 53G in the head.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Russell hasn't been out-qualified by a teammate in any of his 36 races, nor has he scored a point.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

jb welder said:


> Yes, but because Mick and Mazepin are busy with F2 final. They are free for Abu Dhabi.
> That being said, I agree with the others that Haas will try to get Grosjean back there for the last race if at all possible.
> In spite of how much he has cost them, Steiner's attitude toward him has sure improved , and I'm sure everybody would like to see Grosjean do that last race.
> 
> @High/Deaf , Grosjean mentioned something about taking 53G in the head.


Wow, is that even possible? I wonder if they have sensors mounted on the body/helmet that would measure that. It'd be interesting to hear the real numbers. NASA and military agencies have been studying the limits for a while but those seem to be more 'sustained Gs' rather than instantaneous. Whatever it was, I bet he's feeling his whole body these last few days.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I know it's only FP1, but RUSSELL P1!!!!!


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

TWRC said:


> I know it's only FP1, but RUSSELL P1!!!!!


 The fanboys and pundits are falling all over each other. Not to discount it completely but it's FP1 and along with adrenaline and excitement, the only one out there that really has anything to prove is Russell. Even Fittipaldi and Aiken don't have to do more than get around the track. The other regular drivers are just doing their regular routines and I am sure they don't care all that much about FP position. The real discussion will take place tomorrow if he can do better than say P5.

I'm calling Bottas, Verstappen Ricciardo.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Russell leading FP2, however, it was said that Bottas has finished doing qualy sims. without being able to get a 'clean lap' in. So I guess he's in race trim now and Russell's lead will probably stand.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

It's looking good for George! Can't wait for tomorrow now.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

FP1 and FP2 don't mean a thing. Sorry. The team has objectives and Bottas is a lot more involved in those than Russell, who's just trying to feel the car out. It isn't bad for him or Merc to be leading, but I wouldn't read anything into it. The real 'competition' starts in a few hours. The playing field at Merc will be level then.

I bet Lewis is already getting drunk. Because he can!


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

High/Deaf said:


> FP1 and FP2 don't mean a thing. Sorry. The team has objectives and Bottas is a lot more involved in those than Russell, who's just trying to feel the car out. It isn't bad for him or Merc to be leading, but I wouldn't read anything into it. The real 'competition' starts in a few hours. The playing field at Merc will be level then.
> 
> I bet Lewis is already getting drunk. Because he can!


No they don't, but it's fun to see his usual outing in the Williams compared to the Mercedes. As much as I'm a fan of Russell, I think he'll start 3rd or 4th row, and finish in P5 tops. I hope I'm wrong, but just trying to be somewhat realistic.

I'm sure Lewis is on a yacht relaxing.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

TWRC said:


> No they don't, but it's fun to see his usual outing in the Williams compared to the Mercedes. As much as I'm a fan of Russell, I think he'll start 3rd or 4th row, and finish in P5 tops. I hope I'm wrong, but just trying to be somewhat realistic.
> 
> I'm sure Lewis is on a yacht relaxing.


I'm hoping for front row. But the car doesn't fit him, that has to be an issue over a few hours.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Awesome!


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Ugh...Perez and leclerc were nearly identical to stroll and kvyat last week.
poor Max.

I don’t know if Russell’s performance is a testament to his skills, or validates the criticism of Hamilton that it’s all about his car. A bit of both maybe.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Watching the leaderboard on PF1. Too many safety cars.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Then they put snow tires on Russell's car - WTF ? Canadian Tire could have done a better job.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

They blew Bottas' stop too, and now had to recall Russell to fix the mixed tires.
Perez leading!


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

About the most interesting race this year in terms of shuffling the deck.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Russell has a flat - shit


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Worst day of the year for Merc. They completely fall apart without Lewis?


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Perez had to work his way up from being in last place at one point. Is it even possible for him not to get a drive for next year?


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Well that was exciting!


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

god bless LH for his achievements..but dammit the sport is so much more fun when he isnt in it.

poor George....but i suppose if he won there’d be an asterisk beside it ...considering he didn’t have to deal with any of the top drivers...ie LH, Max and Charles.

things not looking good for albon.
RB must be looking at Perez, and Horner said last week it’s albons seat or nothing next year...no move to alpha tauri as a plan B.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

How likely is it we'll see two Racing Point/Aston Martin on the same podium in, I don't know, the next 5 years?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

jb welder said:


> Worst day of the year for Merc. They completely fall apart without Lewis?


It’s odd to me that the richest teams, Merc and Ferrari are often lack lustre in the pits.
inexcusable, while RB and even Williams outperfor them in pit times.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Wow, just wow. Never would have called it that way, but that's racing. It'll be an interesting week of commentary and conjecture. Next weekend will fun. I predict Hamilton won't race to let Russell have another go whether he is better or not. While its hard to feel sorry for Mercedes, but the team certainly screwed over both drivers.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

The season that just about didn't happen became a pretty damn fine season after all. 

Interesting time for the wheels to fall off the Merc wagon (figuratively and literally). How do they keep the car near its minimum weight with all the horseshoes Lewis carries with him? Bottas can't buy a break. 

George looked pretty damn good in that car and with a bit of 'Lewis luck', he would've topped the podium. I'm thrilled for Checo though. If you were writing a script, this would be a great plot twist as you near the climax. Crazy world we live in. Going into the last weekend, we still have a battle going on for 3rd in WCC.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I'm definitely heartbroken for George, but he's still young, and in my opinion, a future World Champion. He held his own yesterday, and should have won that race on his own merit. Just a shame and ironic how it was Jack Aitken's shunt in George's own car that caused his race to unravel. 

On the other hand, I too am thrilled for Checo. He deserved that win, and drove a sensational race from the back of the grid. I think it's absolutely criminal that he doesn't have a seat next year, but one would think that RBR is giving him some major consideration.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Tin foil hat time:
Bottas has deleted link to Mercedes F1 team from his Instagram bio
Russell has deleted Williams from his and is simply F1 Driver

Conjecture time:
Tsunoda taking the young drivers test spot for Red Bull


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I like where you're going with this!


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

It would be more interesting if Russell were in the Mercedes next year than Bottas who will just continue in a support role to Hamilton.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

ZeroGravity said:


> Russell has deleted Williams from his and is simply F1 Driver


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Looks like Hamilton is back. Too bad, I was hoping that Russell would continue to upset the apple cart; would be more interesting than the status quo.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Wardo said:


> Looks like Hamilton is back. Too bad, I was hoping that Russell would continue to upset the apple cart; would be more interesting than the status quo.


The last thing Hamilton wants is Russell getting another drive of his car.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeah, I figured that. 

Mercedes will likely dominate for some time to come and it would be nice see a scrap between their drivers but teams rarely opt for that so Bottas will remain as No.2 for now. Also, no guarantee that Russell would knock off Hamilton any time soon. Would like to have seen Russell get another shot at it though.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

davetcan said:


> The last thing Hamilton wants is Russell getting another drive of his car.


Toto said that they weren't using Russell as a bargaining chip for Hamilton's contract negotiations. Yeah right.

Not convinced Russell is the next wonderkid yet just because he can pilot the Mercedes fast. Put him in a non-Merc, competitive car like a Red Bull or Racing Point and see if he's a podium finisher, then it's him. But, you'll never see him in RB since Marko said its not acceptable for them to have Russell contracted with Toto for the next 10 years. I still don't see how he can be team principal and a driver agent


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

ZeroGravity said:


> Not convinced Russell is the next wonderkid yet just because he can pilot the Mercedes fast. Put him in a non-Merc, competitive car like a Red Bull or Racing Point and see if he's a podium finisher, then it's him.


He certainly hasn't done that much better than his own team mate (Latifi) in the same car this year. Qualy, yes, but race days not. Maybe even making Latifi looking better than Bottas.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

jb welder said:


> He certainly hasn't done that much better than his own team mate (Latifi) in the same car this year. Qualy, yes, but race days not. Maybe even making Latifi looking better than Bottas.


Exactly. Last weekend did nothing to prove or disprove car vs driver. He's good, but so are a lot of guys out there. My opinion is that if he's the next coming, he should be able to make the Williams go above its limits and be in front of Latifi, Haas, week in week out and be in front or in the fight with Alfa Romeo too. He should be finishing no worse that 15th in a full field and as high as 12th or 13th on driver skill. I can't believe the Williams is that far behind every other car and it hold him back.I also think the Mercedes makes Bottas look good.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I’d like to see Hamilton in the Williams and Russell in the Mercedes for a couple of races, then we could discuss car vs driver.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

davetcan said:


> I’d like to see Hamilton in the Williams and Russell in the Mercedes for a couple of races, then we could discuss car vs driver.


In the same vein, Bottas in any other car and see how he fares out. Good drivers can make things happen in mediocre cars and the same may be true the other way around. Mediocre driver and mediocre car, mediocre results


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

There’s a “desire to win” in guys like Schumacher and Hamilton that is perhaps not as strong in some of the other drivers, I still maintain that without the right tool they couldn’t have done what they did. But we’ll never know 😃


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Anyone else feel that Hamilton coming back this weekend was as much a big FU to everyone as much as being a competitive person, including Mercedes and Toto Wolffe, to say I'm the alpha dog and will be for as long as I want, and you're going to have to pay for that.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

ZeroGravity said:


> Anyone else feel that Hamilton coming back this weekend was as much a big FU to everyone as much as being a competitive person, including Mercedes and Toto Wolffe, to say I'm the alpha dog and will be for as long as I want, and you're going to have to pay for that.


Yes.

I think that kinda stuff was evident on the podium at his first win way back when. But that's the way a lot of those guys are and part of what it takes to win the WC numerous times. I think it was Lauda who said "I have no friends."


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)




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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

ZeroGravity said:


> Anyone else feel that Hamilton coming back this weekend was as much a big FU to everyone as much as being a competitive person, including Mercedes and Toto Wolffe, to say I'm the alpha dog and will be for as long as I want, and you're going to have to pay for that.


I saw it more as “I dodged a bullet last week with Russell getting fucked....if he gets p1 in the next race, it will look like anyone can be WDC in this car”. Everyone is replaceable...even LH.

LH charges a hefty premium to drive. If someone with 0 points can do almost as well in that car, I’d be negotiating with an iron fist with him next time and he can take It or leave and be the next Alonso.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

I think that we are thinking along the same lines. Hamilton is back this weekend as much to not give Mercedes any more bargaining power than anything. Russell is just collateral damage.


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

That was interesting final lap


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

I liked Toto's head banging onto the desk


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Lord thunderin Jesus, the sound of Alonso in the R25 Renault. It has nearly everyone at the track captivated.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Many people, I guess, have either never heard or have forgotten what F1 engines used to sound like. My first experience (I still get hairs standing up thinking about it) was a TAG-Honda and a Ferrari turbo V6 at full song and not rev-limited. The NA engines after that sounded even better, like ripping canvas. They are kinda lame-sounding in comparison now. 

Sadly, what ended up being a great season ended with a wimper. I'm still thrilled they were able to get it off. I didn't see that coming June 1st. Congrats to all involved. In a year with nearly no sports, F1 held up it's end.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> Many people, I guess, have either never heard or have forgotten what F1 engines used to sound like. My first experience (I still get hairs standing up thinking about it) was a TAG-Honda and a Ferrari turbo V6 at full song and not rev-limited. The NA engines after that sounded even better, like ripping canvas. They are kinda lame-sounding in comparison now.
> 
> Sadly, what ended up being a great season ended with a wimper. I'm still thrilled they were able to get it off. I didn't see that coming June 1st. Congrats to all involved. In a year with nearly no sports, F1 held up it's end.


True. when we were at COTA last year, it wasnt particularly loud. earplugs were given out freely, but you really didnt need them. Barely as loud as going to a movie.

Tsunoda in at Alpha Tauri next year, so Danil may join the list of job hunting F1 drivers with Perez, Hulk, the Haas wankers (chuckle), Van Doorne, Hartley etc. Although it wouldnt be a complete surprise if one of them (Perez/Hulk?) changes spots on this list with Albon. Horner has stated that he doesnt have a "plan B" for Alex...he has the Rb seat or nothing (from him) next year. Seems like Gasly has turned Alpha Tauri into a bona fide team on its own, not a proving ground for "the big team".


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Season almost done:

Wolff signed to 3 more years as team principal, Ineos ups stake in team, Mercedes lowers

Checo to Red Bull!!!!!!!

Albon to test/reserve driver status

Checo to Red Bull!!!!!!

Hamilton's bargaining power falling by the second, Wolff in no hurry to sign a contract, "can wait until eve of 2021 testing"

Checo to Red Bull!!!!!!!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

ZeroGravity said:


> Season almost done:
> 
> Wolff signed to 3 more years as team principal, Ineos ups stake in team, Mercedes lowers
> 
> ...


"Toto, I have a feeling we're not in England anymore." Still, I can't imagine them NOT signing Lewis, it's all just posturing. Wonder what he'$ a$king for? His previous contract was for something like $100M.

Is it true about Checo? Done deal? If so, I'm thrilled - for him and for F1.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> "Toto, I have a feeling we're not in England anymore." Still, I can't imagine them NOT signing Lewis, it's all just posturing. Wonder what he'$ a$king for? His previous contract was for something like $100M.
> 
> Is it true about Checo? Done deal? If so, I'm thrilled - for him and for F1.


yup, as expected, its a done deal for Perez.
Now, when will they have an engine? 

I think its likely LH will get signed, its hard to change something thats been mutually successful, although at this point, I think LH owes more to Merc than Merc does to LH.
I know Russells a better driver than his stats indicate, but after seeing him (a backfield driver with 0 points in 2 seasons) take pole in a car he had no input on the development and barely any practice time, one has to think that any of at least 10 drivers in the field would make regular podium appearances and at least occasional wins if given that car. Or more....who knows?
at some point in the next 2 years or so, LH might price himself out of that seat.
But, as the F1 bosses rank the drivers, he still has a lot of respect. VB77, not so much. I personally think he deserves a little more credit although still a huge benefactor of the car as well.
Albon not appearing in the top 10 was not a good omen for him.

More Misery for Valtteri Bottas as F1 Team Bosses Vote their Top 10 Drivers of 2020 - Report Door
(NB. theres better links to the story out there, but the tits are nicer in this one.)

Lewis Hamilton
Max Verstappen
Charles Leclerc
Daniel Ricciardo
Sergio Perez
George Russell
Lando Norris
Carlos Sainz Jr.
Valtteri Bottas, Pierre Gasly (tied)
nice showing for leclerc, esp since his own principal did not participate. All signs point to Binotto being out next year, IMO. rightfully so. he has been a disaster.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Diablo said:


> yup, as expected, its a done deal for Perez.
> Now, when will they have an engine?
> 
> I think its likely LH will get signed, its hard to change something thats been mutually successful, although at this point, I think LH owes more to Merc than Merc does to LH.
> ...


That's a pretty good list. I wouldn't argue much with it. 

Lewis did show a couple times this year he really is the top gun. But in reality, F1 being F1, Valtteri could have won the WDC in that car with that competition. 

Mercedes won't always have the best car (I hope). And then a driver of Lewis' calibre is maybe more justified. Right now, he's just icing on a very good cake --- and he's not in any other team, which helps Merc too.

Vettel had a brutal year. Car didn't work for him, he seemed to be in hissy-fit mode every weekend. He (and Eyebrows Alonso) should be top 10 F1 drivers, going by their history. Will they get it back or is it gone, a la Raikonnen (at least IMO).


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

High/Deaf said:


> "Toto, I have a feeling we're not in England anymore." Still, I can't imagine them NOT signing Lewis, it's all just posturing. Wonder what he'$ a$king for? His previous contract was for something like $100M.
> 
> Is it true about Checo? Done deal? If so, I'm thrilled - for him and for F1.


It's almost a certainty that he will sign again, but the terms have likely changed, maybe not all that drastically but I suspect it is no longer Hamilton gets anything he asks for unchallenged. He could leave Mercedes and F1 now and it would go on just fine without him. I heard LH was looking for £50M for next season and significantly reduced off-track time spent at Mercedes so he could spend more time on his personal life and other ventures. I have seen reports now that it is already down to £40M. Now with Toto increasing his ownership slightly, a 3rd party in Ineos upping theirs to a third and Mercedes dropping to a third, there may be some dissenting opinion on how much to pay drivers ahead of the coming budget caps.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I think it's about a lot more than just money. Like you say, personal issues are probably at least as important when you already have a couple hundred mil in the bank. 

Lewis also has a few 'political' things he wants to get off his chest, I think. I get the sense that Merc, obviously a large corp, may be restricting him from going too far there, maybe he wants a bit more freedom to express himself in that arena.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

High/Deaf said:


> I think it's about a lot more than just money. Like you say, personal issues are probably at least as important when you already have a couple hundred mil in the bank.
> 
> Lewis also has a few 'political' things he wants to get off his chest, I think. I get the sense that Merc, obviously a large corp, may be restricting him from going too far there, maybe he wants a bit more freedom to express himself in that arena.


He's already said that being away and Covid has strained his friend and family relations and that he doesn't want travel as much to Mercedes coporate in Germany. Besides the activism things, which I agree with you that he is most likely constrained to what he wants to say and some F1 fans would want him to already be less outspoken, he also fancies himself a singer (XNDA) and has clothing and fashion aspirations.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

ZeroGravity said:


> He's already said that being away and Covid has strained his friend and family relations and that he doesn't want travel as much to Mercedes coporate in Germany. Besides the activism things, which I agree with you that he is most likely constrained to what he wants to say and some F1 fans would want him to already be less outspoken, he also fancies himself a singer (XNDA) and has clothing and fashion aspirations.


gosh, he's constrained? He pretty much got the whole of F1 mobilized behind it.

Its funny hearing about a single guy needing more time for family.

















But im sure he takes for granted both those items and sees himself as being uniquely inconvenienced.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Diablo said:


> gosh, he's constrained? He pretty much got the whole of F1 mobilized behind it.
> 
> Its funny hearing about a single guy needing more time for family.
> View attachment 341552
> ...


Yeah, I'm sure that his perception of "reality" and "constraint" compared to yours and mine are on very different planes.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Very happy for Perez. I think Max performs better when pressured by a team-mate as well.
Ocon is no slouch, but I don't think he's at the same level as Ricciardo or Perez.

Next season looking very promising indeed.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Got a framed autographed (Russell) flag from my wife for xmas


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Diablo said:


> we’ve met about a half dozen of the drivers on the current grid...all were gracious and among the nicest people in sport that you could meet.
> Antonio and Pierre are especially sweet guys
> My daughter really hit it off with Kimi as well, for some reason, but I can’t find a pic.


You'll probably enjoy this one, it's hilarious. Kimi giving Giovinazzi a scare around the Nordschleife.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Did Hamilton sign yet?


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Wardo said:


> Did Hamilton sign yet?


1-yr contract.

My opinion is like many others in his position feels he can dictate whatever he wants and Mercedes corporate was trying to put their foot down and not giving into Hamilton’s demands and they compromised by giving in to some but only for one year, not long term.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Reminds me a story from 2 decades ago:

A board meeting in Dearborn, Mr Ford Jr asks "Who is this guy, this second highest paid Ford employee?" He was referring to Eddie Irvine, Jaguar's lead driver at the time. Not really a household name in Detroit. LOL


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

ZeroGravity said:


> 1-yr contract.
> 
> My opinion is like many others in his position feels he can dictate whatever he wants and Mercedes corporate was trying to put their foot down and not giving into Hamilton’s demands and they compromised by giving in to some but only for one year, not long term.


Ya, a long term deal didnt make sense for Merc....all they really need is another year or 2 to develop someone to replace him, or annoint someone else to be the future WDC.


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)




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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

I think I'm all in on Ricci and Lando this year. Hope the new engine package combined with gains from last year mean contending this season.









McLaren Looks Like It Could Be Fighting For Wins This Year


I’m sure at least some of this is emotionally charged, but I truly believe that McLaren really has its shit together in 2021. Despite recent pandemic-induced money troubles, the Papaya Orange team has a new engine supplier in Mercedes, a new sponsor in Gulf, a new championship-caliber driver in...




jalopnik.com


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

As Raikkonen would say "next what happens we will see."


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

Bwhaaaaaaaaa


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

jayoldschool said:


> I think I'm all in on Ricci and Lando this year. Hope the new engine package combined with gains from last year mean contending this season.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Their chassis looked outstanding last year. Perhaps that bodes well - I don't think we see a significant redesign due to rules changes until next year?


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## TWRC (Apr 22, 2011)

I'm thinking McLaren used up all their tokens on fitting the new Merc power unit into the chassis, so I doubt we'll see too many upgrades / development in their aero and chassis departments. However, I think they definitely had a great baseline from last season to work off of, and personally, I think they'll finish in P3 again in the constructors. It's great to see the Merc + McLaren partnership again, and with their driver lineup, we're in for some exciting results!

On another note, should we start an F1 2021 thread now? haha


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## JesseB94 (Feb 11, 2021)

Even though I’m a die hard Ferrari fan I’m most excited to see Aston Martins return (miss vettel already) but I’m glad we got sainz out of it atleast.

Also hoping for another productive year from alpha tauri and Pierre. Interested to see what Tsunoda will do aswell.

weird a$$ car reveal though..
www.autosport.com/f1/news/155113/alphatauri-reveals-at02-2021-f1-car/amp/


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