# Scale length and bending



## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Ever since watching Gilmour play acoustic on DVD I've longed for a Taylor 314. He did the bends so effortlessly. Anytime I try bending on my Takamine EG531SC (which is supposed to have a scale length of 25 1/2") I feel like the strings are going to cut the tips of my fingers off. I've tried the same thing on a Taylor at my local L&M and it was pretty easy. They are both supposed to have the same scale length as far as I can tell. Can anyone explain to me why it is so easy on a Taylor but deadly on my Tak? I use extra light strings on the Tak...Thanks


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

if both have the same scale length, i think it comes down to actual neck angle and the setup of the guitar.
too shallow a neck angle relative to the guitars top and its impossible to get easy action along the whole of the fretboard.
but thats a construction issue-
as well, the taylor may have bigger frets that make bending easier-
again, a construction issue.
without actually looking at your tak, my guess is your setup needs tweaked.
if you have a lot of relief dialed in, bends will be harder as you move up the fretboard, as well string height at the nut affects ease of bending.

i aim for a pretty much straight neck with no relief if i want a guitar that bends easily- its then very important for your frets to be nice and level- with a solid crown


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Thanks fraser. I may have to get the setup tweaked because now that I think of it, the action was much lower when I bought the thing about 5 years ago. I'll have to take it into a good tech to get it checked out. Wish I had the cash for the Taylor. It sure is sweet.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

yeah that makes sense- after 5 years . a new guitar needs tweaking a lot in its first few years i find. most of mine need a bit of tweaking every 6 months, and theyre pretty much in a climate controlled environment all the time.
good luck-:food-smiley-004:


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

The Taylor neck is a special beast, it was definately designed for an electric player, IMO.

I don't know your Tak, so I have to ask, was the the string guage the guitars you compared?


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Yeah I thought about the string guage. I went from Light to Extra Light to Custom Light. I use 11's on my Strat and can bend them easily enough. The strings on my Tak are 11's and the magic just isn't happening. 1/2 step yeah but full step no way jose. I have no idea what guage was on the Taylor. 

Speaking of Taylors...I seem to recall seeing a post about about YOUR Taylor. Still have it?


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Stratin2traynor said:


> Yeah I thought about the string guage. I went from Light to Extra Light to Custom Light. I use 11's on my Strat and can bend them easily enough. The strings on my Tak are 11's and the magic just isn't happening. 1/2 step yeah but full step no way jose. I have no idea what guage was on the Taylor.
> 
> Speaking of Taylors...I seem to recall seeing a post about about YOUR Taylor. Still have it?


Well if you played a GA or GC it would have lights on it. If it was a Dread or GS it would have mediums on it.

I still have my 914c, played it for the first time in months tonight at practice. To be honest I haven't really played any guitar lately.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Well the Taylor I messed around with was a 314 ?e? It was around $1600.00. It would look awesome in my living room or better yet on my lap!


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## ZeroFret (Aug 1, 2008)

I have a 2007 Taylor 114 and I love it! I think I got one of the few last Made In USA models since now they are made in Mexico. I use medium gauge strings so I dont do lot of string bending but it's a sweet playing and sounding guitar.

ZF


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

ZeroFret said:


> I have a 2007 Taylor 114 and I love it! I think I got one of the few last Made In USA models since now they are made in Mexico. I use medium gauge strings so I dont do lot of string bending but it's a sweet playing and sounding guitar.
> 
> ZF


I'd be concerned about running mediums on the 14 body style, she is designed for lights. Mediums over time might do some damage with all that torque.


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## satch09 (Jul 26, 2008)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> I'd be concerned about running mediums on the 14 body style, she is designed for lights. Mediums over time might do some damage with all that torque.



I forget the guys name, it's matt something I think from guitar world, and he answers all these tech questions. I'm not exactly sure if its the same thing, as its two different models, maybe different string gauges and set ups, but he has this thing he calls a guitars suspension. Its when you have two guitars from the same assembly, consecutive serial numbers, set up the exact same way, same strings everything... yet some are easier to play, fret, bend or whatever. He said he's talked to several top luthiers about it and they all agree, one even said "If I knew the answer to that, I'd have retired a long time ago". So it's possible that the guitar itself could have a higher or lower suspension. Worth thinkin about.


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## satch09 (Jul 26, 2008)

oops I meant to reply to the original post, not the last one...


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## ZeroFret (Aug 1, 2008)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> I'd be concerned about running mediums on the 14 body style, she is designed for lights. Mediums over time might do some damage with all that torque.


Actually the guitar came strung with .013 80/20 bronze Nanowebs when I bought it new at Steve's Music in Ottawa. I don't have the exact numbers but from what I understand there is really not that much difference in the amount of stress (in lbs.) between .012's and 0.13's. The 114 is not that much smaller than a dread style guitar. It is a Grand Auditorium size body and I've been using mediums on it for a year without a problem. Taylors are pretty sturdy and well built guitars. I am thinking of going down to .012's though just to ease the stress on my fretting hand.

I have even used mediums on an Art & Lutherie Ami parlour guitar without a problem. Sometimes I like to tune to open D or G for slide playing so that's why I have used mediums for last several years.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

ZeroFret said:


> Actually the guitar came strung with .013 80/20 bronze Nanowebs when I bought it new at Steve's Music in Ottawa. I don't have the exact numbers but from what I understand there is really not that much difference in the amount of stress (in lbs.) between .012's and 0.13's. The 114 is not that much smaller than a dread style guitar. It is a Grand Auditorium size body and I've been using mediums on it for a year without a problem. Taylors are pretty sturdy and well built guitars. I am thinking of going down to .012's though just to ease the stress on my fretting hand.
> 
> I have even used mediums on an Art & Lutherie Ami parlour guitar without a problem. Sometimes I like to tune to open D or G for slide playing so that's why I have used mediums for last several years.


Well that's weird, I've never seen a GA (14 series) strung with anything other than lights.

I wonder if someone test drove it before you bought it? I do it all the time, take a guitar for a few days put my favorite strings on it and then return it within 3 days.


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## ZeroFret (Aug 1, 2008)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> Well that's weird, I've never seen a GA (14 series) strung with anything other than lights.
> 
> I wonder if someone test drove it before you bought it? I do it all the time, take a guitar for a few days put my favorite strings on it and then return it within 3 days.



Well...I have no reason to believe the guitar ever left the shop for a "test drive". The people at Steve's would probably laugh at you if you even mentioned doing anything like that. I think their response would be something like..."we are in the business to sell guitars, not lend them out". I know Long & McQuade will rent you a guitar for a month if you like and then you can try it. I have seen what their rental guitars look like that they try and sell after someone has tired of it...not pretty. 

The Taylor 114 I bought brand new had been sitting in the shop for only 2 weeks like that with those strings. Maybe the sales people changed the light strings to mediums but... knowing how the staff is at Steve's I seriously doubt it. I wouldn't even let their so-called "tech" touch any of my acoustic guitars. 

That being said...I too found it strange that the strings on the 114 were obviously mediums and not lights. Like you said, Taylor 14 series guitars usually are shipped with lights. Like I said before I am thinking of switching over to lights just to give it a shot. I am just curious...what strings would you recommend in that gauge?


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

ZeroFret said:


> Well...I have no reason to believe the guitar ever left the shop for a "test drive". The people at Steve's would probably laugh at you if you even mentioned doing anything like that. I think their response would be something like..."we are in the business to sell guitars, not lend them out". I know Long & McQuade will rent you a guitar for a month if you like and then you can try it. I have seen what their rental guitars look like that they try and sell after someone has tired of it...not pretty.
> 
> The Taylor 114 I bought brand new had been sitting in the shop for only 2 weeks like that with those strings. Maybe the sales people changed the light strings to mediums but... knowing how the staff is at Steve's I seriously doubt it. I wouldn't even let their so-called "tech" touch any of my acoustic guitars.
> 
> That being said...I too found it strange that the strings on the 114 were obviously mediums and not lights. Like you said, Taylor 14 series guitars usually are shipped with lights. Like I said before I am thinking of switching over to lights just to give it a shot. I am just curious...what strings would you recommend in that gauge?


youd be really suprised,
any of the stores i visit offer to lend me stuff all the time. not sure if you want to buy it fraser? hell, take it home dude, decide in a week.
its all about building a level of trust, and of course, bieng more knowledgable than the employee helps too. and ive only lived in this area for a few years- 
not like they really know me-
its all about respect, jeff knows what im talking about.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

fraser said:


> youd be really suprised,
> any of the stores i visit offer to lend me stuff all the time. not sure if you want to buy it fraser? hell, take it home dude, decide in a week.
> its all about building a level of trust, and of course, bieng more knowledgable than the employee helps too. and ive only lived in this area for a few years-
> not like they really know me-
> its all about respect, jeff knows what im talking about.


+1 on that fraser. I've "borrowed"/"test driven" stuff as well without any issue. It is all about trust. I have no doubt that if I walked into my local L&M (which I frequent on a semi-regular basis) I could take home and test drive pretty much anything I wanted to.


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## ZeroFret (Aug 1, 2008)

Well..L&M is a chain...the salesman there are not on commision. I find it difficult to get a salesman to help me at L&M because they are too busy looking at "YouTube". That's why I dont buy gear there. I guess I am not "famous" enough for them to pay attention to. They also don't have much of a margin to bargain. The folks who work at Steve's Music in Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal from what I understand are on commision. They want to see your money. The minute you walk in they are there trying to help you. Personally I wouldn't buy anything at a shop that lends out their instruments to every yahoo that comes along that wants to "try it out for the weekend". That's just me.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

ZeroFret said:


> Well...I have no reason to believe the guitar ever left the shop for a "test drive". The people at Steve's would probably laugh at you if you even mentioned doing anything like that. I think their response would be something like..."we are in the business to sell guitars, not lend them out". I know Long & McQuade will rent you a guitar for a month if you like and then you can try it. I have seen what their rental guitars look like that they try and sell after someone has tired of it...not pretty.
> 
> The Taylor 114 I bought brand new had been sitting in the shop for only 2 weeks like that with those strings. Maybe the sales people changed the light strings to mediums but... knowing how the staff is at Steve's I seriously doubt it. I wouldn't even let their so-called "tech" touch any of my acoustic guitars.
> 
> That being said...I too found it strange that the strings on the 114 were obviously mediums and not lights. Like you said, Taylor 14 series guitars usually are shipped with lights. Like I said before I am thinking of switching over to lights just to give it a shot. I am just curious...what strings would you recommend in that gauge?


John Pearse strings are some of the best sounding for uncoated. Elixir phosphor bronze are great sounding strings for coated, but I break them there was no tomorrow.

Steve's lets their best customers try stuff at home guaranteed, any respecting high end music shop will. They can't expect their best customers to strum the $4000 Martin or Taylor in the crapy sounding acoustic room and say done deal. It just doesn't work that way, at least not for me.

As for the 114, I bet a string broke and some idiot salesman put on mediums by mistake.

:food-smiley-004:


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## ZeroFret (Aug 1, 2008)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> John Pearse strings are some of the best sounding for uncoated. Elixir phosphor bronze are great sounding strings for coated, but I break them there was no tomorrow.
> :food-smiley-004:


I just picked up a set of John Pearse 80/20 Bronze Lights and will be trying them out once I get around to it. I know what you mean about the Elixirs breaking like no tomorrow. I like the sound of the Nanowebs too but after breaking a G and D string after only less than an hour of playing time I switched back to non-coated strings. 

Regards,

ZF


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

I haven't tried the 80/20s I'm a PB man myself.


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## xuthal (May 15, 2007)

I have a washburn ea30 and its geared towards the electric player.When it had medium strings on it the bending wasnt that easy.After putting on some lights the bending was much easier and sounded good.I personally dont use lights that often,i like a little bass in my music.


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## Nohtanhoj (Jun 30, 2008)

I've always been an Elixir guy when it comes to acoustic strings, I've never really broken one except when it's due for replacement, and since I generally keep an extra set of strings around I'm OK with it. I've got a Taylor 214ce, my second guitar after a crappy $100 Yamaha that I learned on. It's been my baby since, it's so versatile...


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