# modes, fill in the blanks



## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

It has been a long time since I tried figuring out the scale modes. The last time being unsuccessful, lol. I know that the patterns, or intervals remain constant, just starting at a different spot, and I know that a C maj scale has the same notes as an A min scale with a different root. So, using the C maj scale as an example, what would be the modes using each note of the scale as a root for it's scale? 

C - maj
D -
E - 
F -
G - 
A - min
B -

ie, name the scale (doriam, mixolydian, etc) using the notes above, each as a root note. I hope you can decipher what I am getting at here...lol. Thanks for filling in the blanks. I realize I could be way confused here too.


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## GuyB (May 2, 2008)

C : ionian (major)
D : dorian (minor)
E : phrygian (minor)
F : lydian (major)
G : mixolydian (dominant)
A : aeolian (minor)
B : locrian (minor)


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## BIGDC (Aug 16, 2011)

I find the mnemonic "I Don't Particularly Lyke Modes A Lot" useful for remembering the order


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## NB_Terry (Feb 2, 2006)

BIGDC said:


> I find the mnemonic "I Don't Particularly Lyke Modes A Lot" useful for remembering the order


Nice, I haven't heard that one before.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

The only ones I ever see used in music is Major ( forget mode name), natural minor( forget mode name), mixolydian, dorian. Not a mode but harmonic and molodic minor scales pop up also. This thread should be interesting.


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## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

My favourite scale quote is "There is only one scale....the chromatic scale." Can't recall the source, but it was somebody famous.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

There are lots of great traditional tunes which are modal. Fiddle tunes like The Swallowtail Jig (dorian) and Banish Misfortune (major & mixolydian) are typical, and there are of course many natural minor (aeolian) tunes. 

Claude Debussy, Miles Davis, Beethoven...even the Beatles, used modes on occasion, and if what I've been hearing in modern metal is indicative, lots of modes there too. 

Peace, Mooh.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Thank you, I am going to cut and paste this into a document. I am helping some gr. 7 and 8 kids with their guitar studies during lunch recess. I am trying to keep it light and fun while still throwing in a bit of theory (which I need some too). Got them starting on a simple song (Let it be) and they now know how to pick out a key by the chords they play (somewhat) and can change the key with a capo, and know what key and why (again, somewhat). It is a bit of fun for all of us, and it gives me the chance to brush up on things I should know by now also.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Jim DaddyO Modes are just varations of the major and minor scales. All but one is the movment of one note but they like to hang a big name on them and confuse most people like me. A little deep for beginners. Raulph Denyer ( i think) wrote the guitar hand book which is a great reference and it is all in there.
Internet postings could be right and could be wrong.


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

I have seen and read a lot of different things said about modes.No matter what the name of the mode it is still played in the key of the First note. 
we are using C no sharps or flats
Dorian D C scale starting on D no sharps or flats 
Phrygian E C scale starting on E no sharps no flats
Lydian F C scale starting on F no sharps no flats
All the way through the modes in the key of C no sharps and no flats, yet I have had people tell me that the Dorian mode in C is the D scale. D has two sharps. I think the names and calling them a major, minor etc. just confuses people, deadear had it close to right, they are just variation of the major scale that you are playing in.


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## snacker (Jun 26, 2008)

relating each mode back to the parent key is the easiest way to figure out the notes

d dorian is c major 2-2
e phrygian is c major 3-3
etc.

relating them to a scale that starts on the same root is the easiest way to actually put them to use and understand how they actually sound - here's what i mean (i relate it to the most closely related scale either major or natural minor)

C ionian - C major scale
d dorian - d natural minor with a #6
e phrygian - e natural minor with a b9 (b2)
f lydian - f major with a #4
g mixolydian - g major with a b7
a aeolian - a natural minor
b locrian - b natural minor with a b2 b5

using this approach is great for remembering lots of other scales too


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Great info, maybe a bit too much for me...lol. All I wanted to do was to play a c major scale starting at each different note, with that note as a root, to show that there is different modes, but if you know the intervals that it is all really 1 scale. I am just touching on things here and there, but mostly just letting them play and have fun with it. Of course, a lot of things I am showing are things I need to get on to better also. Like, find note x on any string, etc.


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## jeremy_green (Nov 10, 2010)

Jim, find all the notes of the C major scale on the low e string. You will find them in this orderE. F. G. A. B. C. DNow put your index finger on each starting note and play the C Major scale up all six strings not leaving that position on the neck. Write all these down as you figure them out. Each box represents a potential modal shape. By definition the modes are just the major scale starting from each note of it. SoCDEFGABC - IonianDEFGABCD - DorianEFGABCDE - Phrygian FGABCDEF - Lydian GABCDEFG - mixolydianABCDEFGA - AeolianBCDEFGAB - Lorain Memorize the forms first... Application is a whole different kettle of fish. Maybe confuse you at this point, so get to where you get this and then we can resume the discussion at that point.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks, yes, I can play the major scale (ie C at the 8th fret), I do it by "shape", but I can't name all the notes. I am fairly familiar with all the notes on the 6th and 5th strings (roots of bar chords). I have some fret board diagrams of the scales too. I like noodling in Am and can use the extended scale from the 3rd fret to the 10th (which is C maj, right?). I have to go do some practice now...lol.


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## wayne_h (Oct 28, 2009)

Once you know how to play modes , how do you know when to use them?


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

wayne_h said:


> Once you know how to play modes , how do you know when to use them?


When you get tired of soloing in Major or minor scales you try the various modes. A good exercise is to work your scales and modes around a bar cord . Ex : A major bar chord at the fifth fret then do the natural minor and then try your different modes to get the hang of the different tones. I don't memorize scales I just am aware of the different scale steps and how they relate to the root. Ex mixolydian is the Major scale with the 7th scale step moved down one semi tone. Dorian is the minor scale with the 6th scale step moved up one semi tone.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Not sure when to use them, but I like to understand what someone is talking about when they say things like "Stevie sticks to the minor scale but throws in some notes from the major and dorian scale". Yeah....OK?????


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Not sure when to use them, but I like to understand what someone is talking about when they say things like "Stevie sticks to the minor scale but throws in some notes from the major and dorian scale". Yeah....OK?????


I think you are already getting confused. Keep it simple until you learn the notes in the C major scale, play as jeremy_green said and write everything down as you go, forget about minor, dorian etc. for the time being, you can work on the modes when you are sure you know all the notes in C major, also learn and memorize the intervals. I think someone else wrote them out before in case they didn't.

C (W) D (W) (E) (1/2) F (W) G (W) A (W) B (1/2) C. 

W is a whole tone and 1/2 is a half tone. 

Now do this starting on D. D (W) E (1/2) F (W) G (W) A (W) B (1/2) C (W) D. This is still just a C Major scale. 
Now do E,F, G, A, and B using the Whole tone, 1/2 tone intervals and write it all down. Boring as hell I know but writing it down helps you remember it. jeremy_ green gave you some good advise just keep it simple. and play them all over the neck as you are doing this. I probably confused you more


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

not confused, that is what I am doing. Actually, I am trying to get all the notes without sharps or flats located.


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## jeremy_green (Nov 10, 2010)

Until you know your major scale all over the neck, modes are relatively useless to you. Keep it simple, as I said internalize all this, when you have it DOWN - then it is time to discuss modes.In truth is I see FAR more posts by people who don't really understand modes than those that do all over the net. Be very careful what you read on it. Most people get the concept but don't have a clue about application or why they work. Modes refer to the scale... But something being modal refers to the chords of a piece. Most people think by changing their fingering they are playing modes... They aren't. So as I said, let's not go there yet. Get the key of C down.


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