# LED light 'bulbs' cost: local vs. Ebay



## J-75 (Jul 29, 2010)

I'm trying to get my head around the fact that Lowes, Home Depot, Rona, etc. have LED replacement bulbs that, in some instances, are over $100 EACH!
I realize that this is, in part, due to some kind of 'compensation' for the death of the filament bulb industry, but aren't *all lighting products* being manufactured in China now? So, what's a Lowes $119 LED light got that a 4 buck light on EBay is missing? Are *all* LED lights from China gonna burn down your house? Don't you think that a lot of them get a 'GE', Phillips, etc. stamp on them, and wind up on the shelves of our big box stores?

In the back of my mind, I'm reflecting on the death, and re-birth, of the vacuum tube industry: - High quality, reasonably priced, tubes manufactured in Great Britain, Holland, North America, etc. went extinct, and were replaced with mediocre product from Russia, China, etc., at a price that doesn't match the quality of the product. This has given rise to an 'underground' economy in the 'NOS' market.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

One of the major cost factors with LED light bulbs is that they are intended to retrofit into plain old 120VAC light sockets...but they don't use AC, nor do they need 120 volts worth of it. Incandescent bulbs have filaments with enough lag time in their heating and cooling that you don't notice any flicker, even though they are essentially being turned on and off 60 times a second. LEDs, on the other hand, have a much faster response time, such that powering one off AC _would_ be noticeable.

So the price of the bulb includes something to a) step the wall voltage down, and b) turn it from AC into smooth-enough DC.

Another aspect is that, while one can get some pretty dang intense LEDs for peanuts these days (I get some 20,000 millicandle units for about a nickel a pop), ultimately, an LED bulb of total luminance comparable to a 100W incandescent bulb is going to consist of a bunch of LEDs inthe same package, and that package has to fit in the available space provided to traditional incandescents, whether it be in a ceiling fixture or a lampshade.

I'm not trying to be an apologist for what may well be a highly overpriced LED bulb. But the one you were looking at and alarmed at may well be something that attempts to jump through a lot of hoops that are easier for incandescents but much harder for LEDs to fake.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I still have to go through all the cfl's that I bought when they told me they were going to save me so much money. Seems kinda dumb to be replacing them before they have paid for themselves. In the meantime, perhaps the economy of scale will catch up to the led bulb industry and they will come down in price.

I am planning a shop build this year and I was looking at led lighting. The fixtures are well over $240 each. The florescent fixture that is pretty much the direct replacement with the same shape (shop light fixtures) I have seen for about $20. My shop will not be lit with led lighting.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I just paid $10.00 each for some 60W equivalent LED bulbs. They had a $5.00 off on them which was good but even $5.00 each is pretty high compared to filament or CFL's.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

I've been wanting for one for a ceiling fan with a dimmer,but none I've found around here are suitable for an enclosed dome light.
There's all kinds of them for table lamps and floor lamps etc.
$5.00 is pretty good if they last as long as they are supposed to .
I'd like to go LED for the long life aspect,mostly because the light is a PITA to get up to .


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm slowly replacing all the bulbs in my home to LEDs. 

It's ealy to tell if they will be as durable as they claim. The twisty flourescent bulbs sure aren't.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Milkman said:


> I'm slowly replacing all the bulbs in my home to LEDs.
> 
> *It's ealy to tell if they will be as durable as they claim.* The twisty flourescent bulbs sure aren't.


in theory, they should be. the ones on my car are now 5 yrs old, 120k and I haven't had any issues. I would have been through at least 1-2 halogens by now.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Diablo said:


> in theory, they should be. the ones on my car are now 5 yrs old, 120k and I haven't had any issues. I would have been through at least 1-2 halogens by now.


I'm more confident about LEDs than I was about the twisty flourescents.

I've had good results with LED stage lighting.

I'm paying around $6 ~$10 each for home lighting so far.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I've replaced all my bulbs with LED a couple years ago. As for durability, I was replacing the outside light about once every 3 or 4 months. Especially extreme cold or heat seemed to kill them. The one outside has been going strong for almost 2 years.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I've replaced all my bulbs with LED a couple years ago. As for durability, I was replacing the outside light about once every 3 or 4 months. Especially extreme cold or heat seemed to kill them. The one outside has been going strong for almost 2 years.


Good to know. I'll be happy when I'm done changing over. Of course then they'll just come up with dilithium crystal lights or something else I simply MUST upgrade to.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I don't know that the technology will change THAT drastically, but I will say that the efficiency of LEDs has been steadily improving over the past 20 years. The "garden variety" status LEDs we find on our Boss pedals from the 80's are probably rated at around 300-600 millicandles brightness. Fifteen years ago, I used to think of LEDs rated at 3000mcd as "superbright". And these days, as I noted earlier, I can score something rated at 20,000mcd for a nickel ( http://www.taydaelectronics.com/led...e/led-5mm-white-water-clear-ultra-bright.html ). I have no idea what the rating is on the LED-based car headlights, but I suspect it won't be long before they are competing with halogens, as far as brightness-vs-size is concerned.

The next big change will likely be alternate parallel household electrical systems, such that all household lighting will be LED-based, and fed via a common, and appropriate, DC voltage source, such that each individual bulb does not have to contain the adaptor circuitry. I imagine that would lower the price of such bulbs. And since there will still be a need for 120VAC for motors, major appliances, and such, current-format LED bulbs that screw into a lamp base, and DO have the adaptor circuitry, will not likely be rendered obsolete anytime soon.
Oooooo....look at meeee, I'm a frickin' "futurist"! :acigar:


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## Stonehead (Nov 12, 2013)

I once bought into the BS of the CF bulbs but after not seeing the savings, the time they take to get to full brightness, the awful colour light they produce, and having them burn out just as fast as regular bulbs I went back to incandescent. The final straw was two Phillips CF bulbs ballast failed and nearly burned my house down. I know LED's are different but i do not like the light from them either so i will stick with regular bulbs. I bought 165 75 watt commercial bulbs for 20 bucks from a flea market that had just converted to CF bulbs a few years back. I'm set for some time.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

mhammer said:


> I don't know that the technology will change THAT drastically, but I will say that the efficiency of LEDs has been steadily improving over the past 20 years. The "garden variety" status LEDs we find on our Boss pedals from the 80's are probably rated at around 300-600 millicandles brightness. Fifteen years ago, I used to think of LEDs rated at 3000mcd as "superbright". And these days, as I noted earlier, I can score something rated at 20,000mcd for a nickel ( http://www.taydaelectronics.com/led...e/led-5mm-white-water-clear-ultra-bright.html ). I have no idea what the rating is on the LED-based car headlights, but I suspect it won't be long before they are competing with halogens, as far as brightness-vs-size is concerned.
> 
> The next big change will likely be alternate parallel household electrical systems, such that all household lighting will be LED-based, and fed via a common, and appropriate, DC voltage source, such that each individual bulb does not have to contain the adaptor circuitry. I imagine that would lower the price of such bulbs. And since there will still be a need for 120VAC for motors, major appliances, and such, current-format LED bulbs that screw into a lamp base, and DO have the adaptor circuitry, will not likely be rendered obsolete anytime soon.
> Oooooo....look at meeee, I'm a frickin' "futurist"! :acigar:


What I could see is a new wiring system that uses a cable with traditional 3-wire, and the 12V (?) wires combined in the same sheath terminating at a wall outlet that has a connection for each. I think you'd use the same cable for ceiling wiring too just to accommodate ceiling fans, exhaust fans, etc.

Course' maybe in the future it'll all be wireless :smile-new:


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Stonehead said:


> I once bought into the BS of the CF bulbs but after not seeing the savings, the time they take to get to full brightness, the awful colour light they produce, and having them burn out just as fast as regular bulbs I went back to incandescent. The final straw was two Phillips CF bulbs ballast failed and nearly burned my house down. I know LED's are different but i do not like the light from them either so i will stick with regular bulbs. I bought 165 75 watt commercial bulbs for 20 bucks from a flea market that had just converted to CF bulbs a few years back. I'm set for some time.


CFs may end up being the Betamax of the lighting world.
Their Achilles heel is that they create nasty waste. I have no idea what sort of waste LEDs create, but they don't create as much, or as quickly. And although it is not likely a major consideration, I would imagine there is much less incidence of breakage during shipping.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

As the not-proud owner of some of the early ~$30 LED bulbs which will probably never repay me, I'm very aware that LED bulbs are now going on sale somewhat frequently. The sales usually require a coupon which can be downloaded for free from a web site and which permits purchase of the kinds of bulbs most of us need for under $5 each. The bulbs I've purchased from not-well-known manufacturers seem to be holding up well... several of them have been outside for a few months now and holding up fine in our roller-coaster weather, others are surviving OK in dim-able fixtures.

Sorry, I don't have the exact details at hand, but the sales are worth watching for and the coupons easy to get. Seems like every month or two ONE of the big hardware retailers, or Costco, is offering them. Go early, they sell out very fast.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

I've bought LEDs online and have mixed results.

The first bunch I bought were for track lighting in my bar and in my office. They were the low voltage type fixtures with the funky connectors. They are awesome. I am very happy with them. They are much cooler than the the halogens that they replaced.

So, with that confidence, I went online (different source) and got some that fit in a standard light socket.
The first bunch I got have about a quarter-second delay before they light up. Once they are on its great. I even like the colour of the light.
The next batch are very directional and create small pools of light instead of lighting up a room.

Since then, I've stuck with the Phillips LEDs that look like flattened incandescent bulbs.
They are great. They have different colour temperatures, too.
These are the $10 bulbs. There was a sale at Home Desperate a while ago when they had them on for better than half price. I missed the sale, but I'm keeping a look out for that sale.


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## Taylor (Oct 31, 2014)

When I first bought my duplex ~2 years ago, I replaced all the lights in the larger, main-floor unit (which I rent out) with CFLs and all of the bulbs in my smaller unit with LED bulbs, which at that time cost a small fortune. I'm not sure how the lights downstairs fared (though the tennant is a stay-at-home mom, so her lights see more hours of use than mine anyway) but I've yet to need to replace a single bulb in my unit. Some of the older LED bulbs are a little hard on the eyes, but the newer ones (especially in "Daylight" or "Incandescent" temperatures) I have no problems with.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Milkman said:


> *I'm more confident about LEDs than I was about the twisty flourescents.
> *
> I've had good results with LED stage lighting.
> 
> I'm paying around $6 ~$10 each for home lighting so far.


I am too.
i didn't have much luck with the cfls. Fragile and over priced. Didn't live up to the hype for me.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

LED bulbs are another item I find is much cheaper across the border for no good reason. We've been picking up 6-packs of LED bulbs at US Costco's for $19.99 or less in some cases. Here, you are lucky to find a 2-pack for $20


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Anyone notice that cfl's only last a few months?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

butterknucket said:


> Anyone notice that cfl's only last a few months?


I have had good success with CFL's. I have had one or two over the last few years that didn't last but most of the ones I bought are still going. My outside light lasted over 5 years and was still going when I sold the house this summer.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

I've only have one cfl burn out early.

I've had to replace a couple others in the garage,but 2x4s were more to blame than design.


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## Rodavision (Feb 26, 2010)

I just get annoyed with them always pushing us to buy something new. I have some incandescent bulbs that are still going and are over 10 years old. I also have several cfl's that are almost as old and still going. When a bulbs stops working I'll replace it with whatever is reasonably priced. Screw their marketing.


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## Rodavision (Feb 26, 2010)

On a side note: if you don't like the type of light a bulb puts out look up the colours available, it's all based on the Kelvin temperature scale as in blue is hot, yellow is cool, and everything in between. An incandescent is usually around 2700 K.

There is more to it than that but often getting the right colour helps a lot. This page has a decent explanation:

http://bernardkatz.com/how-to-light-art-glass-lighting-guide/


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

You can still find incandescent lights around. When they said that the bulbs would be discontinued we bought a lot.....40's, 60's, 100's....you name it. Some of the regular bulbs we have here were in the house we rented when we move in there, 10 years ago. I took them. When I'm forced to buy more bulbs I'll just go to the local store. Probably by then the bulbs will take a different socket or something like that. I have one LED yard light I got at a yard sale for $5....the guy didn't like it, said it was a crappy yard light. I got it home and plugged it in.....he was right. Maybe it's just the light I have but it doesn't like -30' weather. Takes about as long to light as the cfl bulb on the front porch.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Bubb said:


> I've only have one cfl burn out early.
> 
> I've had to replace a couple others in the garage,but 2x4s were more to blame than design.


I've had a few just stop working and broken a few. They're pretty fragile.


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## Rodavision (Feb 26, 2010)

Milkman said:


> I've had a few just stop working and broken a few. They're pretty fragile.


This is true, but then I've found all glass lights to be fragile. I wouldn't want to know how many I've broken but it sure is a lot of fl, cfl, inca and especially halogens. 

I don't see any great advantage to any of the types other than cold weather performance of inca. Just buy what is cheap. Anything you might save in electricity you will lose by throwing out a working bulb.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Incandescent bulbs give off heat, and every bit of heat they generate reduces the amount of heat our furnaces need to spew out. The all-powerful who use their influence to evoke the usage of LED bulbs don't care about lowly Canadians, as they spend their winters in warm climates. To them the heat of the bulbs is the enemy of their air conditioners. The advantage of extra heat is never factored into the so-called cost savings we are all supposed to enjoy.

I have literally acquired boxes of old style light bulbs. I like to feel the heat radiate out of them when I turn them on during a cold night such as this. I also prefer instantaneous light, rather than the 3 second delay that LED light take to illuminate. I'll use them as long as I can still get them. To me using warm incandescent bulbs is like using a tube amp and LED is like solid state!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Krelf said:


> Incandescent bulbs give off heat, and every bit of heat they generate reduces the amount of heat our furnaces need to spew out. The all-powerful who use their influence to evoke the usage of LED bulbs don't care about lowly Canadians, as they spend their winters in warm climates. To them the heat of the bulbs is the enemy of their air conditioners. The advantage of extra heat is never factored into the so-called cost savings we are all supposed to enjoy.
> 
> I have literally acquired boxes of old style light bulbs. I like to feel the heat radiate out of them when I turn them on during a cold night such as this. I also prefer instantaneous light, rather than the 3 second delay that LED light take to illuminate. I'll use them as long as I can still get them. To me using warm incandescent bulbs is like using a tube amp and LED is like solid state!


Can't use a cfl bulb as a blockheater and an led won't keep a bunch of chicks warm at -20 or so in a small shed. Or warm your hands. And incandescent bulbs just feel right same as old tube amps.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Krelf said:


> Incandescent bulbs give off heat, and every bit of heat they generate reduces the amount of heat our furnaces need to spew out. The all-powerful who use their influence to evoke the usage of LED bulbs don't care about lowly Canadians, as they spend their winters in warm climates. To them the heat of the bulbs is the enemy of their air conditioners. The advantage of extra heat is never factored into the so-called cost savings we are all supposed to enjoy.
> 
> I have literally acquired boxes of old style light bulbs. I like to feel the heat radiate out of them when I turn them on during a cold night such as this. I also prefer instantaneous light, rather than the 3 second delay that LED light take to illuminate. I'll use them as long as I can still get them. To me using warm incandescent bulbs is like using a tube amp and LED is like solid state!


I like my LED's. I'm sure the heat they're not generating in assistance to my furnace is equalized in the summer when my AC doesn't have to work as hard.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Rodavision said:


> This is true, but then I've found all glass lights to be fragile. I wouldn't want to know how many I've broken but it sure is a lot of fl, cfl, inca and especially halogens.
> 
> I don't see any great advantage to any of the types other than cold weather performance of inca. Just buy what is cheap. Anything you might save in electricity you will lose by throwing out a working bulb.



Only if you're dumb enought to throw out a working bulb. Most people replace them as they die (and they do die).


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## Rodavision (Feb 26, 2010)

Jim DaddyO said:


> I still have to go through all the cfl's that I bought when they told me they were going to save me so much money. Seems kinda dumb to be replacing them before they have paid for themselves. In the meantime, perhaps the economy of scale will catch up to the led bulb industry and they will come down in price.


Milkman it doesn't mean anyone is dumb.


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## Rodavision (Feb 26, 2010)

Taylor said:


> When I first bought my duplex ~2 years ago, I replaced all the lights in the larger, main-floor unit (which I rent out) with CFLs and all of the bulbs in my smaller unit with LED bulbs, which at that time cost a small fortune.


This is what the marketing tells people to do.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Milkman said:


> Only if you're dumb enought to throw out a working bulb. Most people replace them as they die (and they do die).


Ever had a cfl burn up badly in your house? It might be a waste of money, but I don't think its dumb. I wont inhale that crap again, I'll tell you that. I use LED and incandescent only. cfl saves you nothing in rooms where the light is on for only a few minute a day anyway. CFL was nothing but a scam IMO


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Scotty said:


> Ever had a cfl burn up badly in your house? It might be a waste of money, but I don't think its dumb. I wont inhale that crap again, I'll tell you that. I use LED and incandescent only. cfl saves you nothing in rooms where the light is on for only a few minute a day anyway. CFL was nothing but a scam IMO


Sorry, that was a poor choice of words.

No, I don't think we've ever had any odor or anything like that. They do seem a bit fragile and as they break I'm replacing mine with LEDs.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Sorry, that was a poor choice of words.
> 
> No, I don't think we've ever had any odor or anything like that. They do seem a bit fragile and as they break I'm replacing mine with LEDs.


CFL's contain mercury. Not the nicest stuff to play around with.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Funny enough, when I was in the hospital in the early 70s, guess what they gave me to play with? They poured out some of this cool silver stuff on one of those tables that rolls over the bed and let me have at 'er, bare-handed and all! Don't recall eating any. But that may explain a few things about my mental state at times. Ahhh, excuses, excuses.

My how times have changed. From a toy to death incarnate.

I find CFL's work well in situations where they are on a long time, like my porch light (8 years + now) or kitchen light. But not good at all in brief on situations like closets of hallways. Those ones seem to die a quick death. Maybe too much for the active electronics, being cycled lots. LED's have all the advantages of CFL's and none of the disadvantages. They will just get cheaper and cheaper. CFL's are just a passing thing, a technical step to LED's.


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## Rodavision (Feb 26, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Funny enough, when I was in the hospital in the early 70s, guess what they gave me to play with? They poured out some of this cool silver stuff on one of those tables that rolls over the bed and let me have at 'er, bare-handed and all! Don't recall eating any. But that may explain a few things about my mental state at times. Ahhh, excuses, excuses.
> 
> My how times have changed. From a toy to death incarnate.
> 
> I find CFL's work well in situations where they are on a long time, like my porch light (8 years + now) or kitchen light. But not good at all in brief on situations like closets of hallways. Those ones seem to die a quick death. Maybe too much for the active electronics, being cycled lots.


I've found the same to be true of their life cycle. 

I also remember playing around with mercury in my hands in science classes. It sure makes you wonder about the hype.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Rodavision said:


> I've found the same to be true of their life cycle.
> 
> I also remember playing around with mercury in my hands in science classes. It sure makes you wonder about the hype.



I think many of us handled a few drops of mercury as kids. 

We also drove around without seatbelts and pregnant mothers used to smoke (sadly some still do).

I few drops in your palm for a minute isn't toxic enough to have any lasting effects, or at least that's my uneducated opinion.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I think many of us handled a few drops of mercury as kids.
> 
> We also drove around without seatbelts and pregnant mothers used to smoke (sadly some still do).
> 
> I few drops in your palm for a minute isn't toxic enough to have any lasting effects, or at least that's my uneducated opinion.


Had mercury in my fillings for over 30 years. Finally the dentist replaced them all with non mercury.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Electraglide said:


> CFL's contain mercury. Not the nicest stuff to play around with.


There have been people playing around with mercury who have lived to be 95. I'll take my chances.


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