# Handling anxiety



## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

How do some of you handle anxiety without drugs or alcool? Exercise, meditation etc...? 
Any helpful hints would be much appreciated
Thank you


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I've had issues essentially all of my adult life with anxiety in various forms. My current trigger of choice is crowded places, like a busy shopping mall - I always feel like I'm ready to take a swing at anyone who bumps into me or my wife, though I'm very much a non-violent person. Plus the elevated heart rate, sometimes a little short of breath, etc.

But there have been other triggers over the years. I have thought I was having a heart attack on numerous occasions. They hook me up to an EKG at emerg and look at me funny, my heart is in excellent shape and 0 family history of heart issues.

When I am exercising regularly (currently not, but trying to get back in the saddle) I don't suffer as much.

Depending where I am, close my eyes take a deep breath or 2 and try to go to a happy place.

Human contact can be good but not always - if my wife tries to hold my hand when I'm stressed, I don't always allow it. Other times, it's soothing.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Exercise, especially outdoors away from society. 

Meditation doesn't really work for me unless I'm moving, which is why I like a stiff hike away from civilization where I can choose to think or not. The kayak and bicycle help a lot.

Sex. I'm serious, it's not as easy as when I was younger and had all my plumbing, but intimacy works for me.

Eliminating the cause, if possible. I left a job once, and my wife had to become estranged from her mother in the name of happiness.

Time off, not just off work, off everything. I once took a long term leave of absence from a job and never returned. 

Diet. Ditch the nasty stuff like artificial sweeteners, and excessive fat and sugar. Fruits and veggies, red meat in moderation, fish.

Massage therapy. This has helped me immensely, though I've been lucky to have it covered by insurance.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

A sense of having accomplished something...anything...no matter how large or small. Housework, band practice, figuring out a riff, volunteering, I don't like lists of things that make me anxious, but crossing things off a list counters the feeling.

I miss splitting wood regularly.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

There's anxiety and there's stress. Or rather, there is normal heightened motivation to do something where the outcome is valued, and there is more pervasive anxiety that constitutes "stress" in and of itself.
I can only think of a very few times in my life where I experienced the latter. Mostly it's just the former, and I wouldn't really distinguish it much from simply caring.

My wife's advice (which I wish she'd take a little more often herself) is "Let go of the caring". Somewhat easier to accomplish for many without too much caffeine or nicotine in their system. That's not an admonishment to either coffee-drinkers or smokers. It's just easier to not let one's initial emotions hijack one's thinking when the physical characteristics of emotions are not amplified by stimulants.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I've suffered from anxiety from the age of 17 till now. 39 years later I still deal with it but have learned how to handle it. The biggest break through was about 20 years ago when I realized there were others who suffered from this. (Thank God for the Internet) When I understood more of what it was and that it wasn't going to kill me that relieved alot of it.
The best thing is getting to know your self, how you think and changing some of the patterns that leads your thinking to getting carried away. This is how anxiety gets you. Your thoughts just build and build until the anxiety climaxes in to an all out panic attack. I've had panic attacks that have led me from some public place to an ambulance ride to the hospital.
I'm a very analytical person and I have a habit of overthinking every thing. Things can happen in your body, chemically that can be stimulated from your thoughts. Things like "fight or flight", responses can be activated. Over the years I've learned to recognize the feelings I get from anxiety and potential panic attacks, feelings of numbness, dream like state of mind, chest pains, etc. and I sort of talk my self down. Realizing its all in your mind is the biggest hurdle.
Over the years I did a lot of research and connected with others in online interent forums dedicated to this and I found educating on this the biggest help.
About 20 years ago I attended a seminar that I think was sponsored from the Anxiety center in Houston. They held it at a Holiday Inn local to me. They were selling a package of information and tapes and tools to help cope with the condition. This is what started me on the road to recovery as far a building skills to deal with anxiety. Not sure what I did with that package I bought.
If you are suffering mild anxiety it really is something that can get out of hand if you don't deal with it.
I've never taken drugs to help with anxiety as I tend to be drug phobic. It was very bad drug use in my early teens that seem to initiate it.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I avoid, or get away from the situation. I therefore lead a somewhat reclusive life style as dealing with people I find the biggest trigger.

It was only a FB post, but it hits close to home.

Anxiety is caring about things too much
Depression is not caring about anything
Having both is a bitch


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Jim DaddyO said:


> I avoid, or get away from the situation.


Yes I used to practice avoidance behaviour. For me was a big mistake. Avoidance behaviour is the road to becoming debilitated.


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

Lonetime.

Or eating. I have a bad habit of forgetting to eat (on the scale of: oh hey, I didn't a meal all weekend. Huh.) I and then all of a sudden I get anxious.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

You can talk to five different people and anxiety will manifest itself in 23+ different ways. OCD behaviour, avoidance, fear - general and specific, panic attacks, anger, feeling needles and pins all over. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy has proven effective, but it is not covered by gov't health care and can limited under work benefit programs, and it doesn't work over night.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> You can talk to five different people and anxiety will manifest itself in 23+ different ways. OCD behaviour, avoidance, fear - general and specific, panic attacks, anger, feeling needles and pins all over. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy has proven effect, but it is not covered by gov't health care and can limited under work benefit programs, and it doesn't work over night.


Thats the nice thing about support groups. Anxiety sufferers aren't as unique as you migth suggest. Whether online or a local support group it does bring comfort to find others that suffer the same way .
All those symptoms you named


> OCD behaviour, avoidance, fear - general and specific, panic attacks, anger, feeling needles and pins all over


 I suffer or have suffered from at one time. Some, such as OCD can be unique to different people, though I've found it quite common to anxiety sufferers. All out panic attacks is usually just the anxiety hitting the proverbial wall.
So you can talk to 5 different anxiety sufferers and find more in common than not.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Motion and heights combined. I went up and down the CN Tower elevator,... *ONCE!!!*


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> Yes I used to practice avoidance behaviour. For me was a big mistake. Avoidance behaviour is the road to becoming debilitated.


I find dealing with people and some of the stupid shit that goes on extremely frustrating and it wears on me for days. I did 5 years of cognitive therapy and it's as good as it's going to get. I also get hooked into folks and heartbreaking situations, and I wear that too, like it's my own. For me, limiting my exposure to it is best. I used to be quite outgoing, but circumstances changed rapidly for me and now life is different. I don't feel like I am missing much. I enjoy my own company, and that of my wife, a very few other people including friends I have never met in person. If I have to make a call to the government, or any other institution/business where they are locked into a regime of "this is the way we do things because that is the way the paper work says it is to be done, I can not be an independent thinker" or the "that is not my department and if you call that department they will refer you back to us", that can bother me for weeks.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Jim DaddyO said:


> I find dealing with people and some of the stupid shit that goes on extremely frustrating and it wears on me for days. I did 5 years of cognitive therapy and it's as good as it's going to get. I also get hooked into folks and heartbreaking situations, and I wear that too, like it's my own. For me, limiting my exposure to it is best. I used to be quite outgoing, but circumstances changed rapidly for me and now life is different. I don't feel like I am missing much. I enjoy my own company, and that of my wife, a very few other people including friends I have never met in person. If I have to make a call to the government, or any other institution/business where they are locked into a regime of "this is the way we do things because that is the way the paper work says it is to be done, I can not be an independent thinker" or the "that is not my department and if you call that department they will refer you back to us", that can bother me for weeks.


I know exactly what you mean. Dealing with people can affect me greatly and causes anxiety. Especially when it comes to government agencies
One good example for me is, I just bought a new car a couple months ago and dealing with salesguys and the games they play (had a real bad experience on this one) just drives me nuts and I lose sleep. 
I could probably afford to replace a car every 4 or 5 years but I drive them in to the ground driving them for 10 or more years until they die. And the reason is to avoid the buying experience. I guess thats my avoidance behaviour.


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

Anxiety is a terrible feeling. I feel for you. You should speak with your doctor, there are medications that will help with general anxiety. I'm not being funny because I've suffered from it myself and it feels like there is a dark cloud around every corner. Pristiq is a medication that is sometimes prescribed in small does to help with anxiety issues. It helped me.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

...


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

If you have bad anxiety I would suggest seeking professional help.

I think I'm developing a bit of anxiety, as things that didn't used to bother me now produce a physical reaction to the situation. I'm aware I should take my own advice..


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Marcos I feel for you! I suffer from severe panic attacks. I have had to rely on medication for the last 5 years, thank god. I still get them occasionally, like maybe a couple of times a year. When they hit it's either fight or flight. I have to leave my house an go for really long walk and if not I pace around the dining room table a for hours on end just freaking out and crying. Claustrophobia overwhelms me. I have gone to the hospital when there was no way out. They will usually give me a shot of Valium. The relief is amazing and within minutes I am feeling so much better. I also have a severe phobia of drowning. An incident where I almost drowned when I was younger loops in my mind constantly. We have a cottage on the lake and I can swim almost anxiety free but put me in a pool with chlorine and it's game over. During the summer we had the use of our neighbor's pool whenever we wanted but I couldn't for the life of me go in. I would sit on the sidelines and watch my husband swim but there were times where I had to leave. I could feel the horrendous anxiety starting to surge through my body. Because of the drowning issues I can't even drink from a glass. I can drink from a bottle or like a coffee cup with a lid on it so I can't see the liquid contained in the cup. My oldest brother suffered from this aspect of anxiety as well. I broke down one day and was talking to him and told him this and he said he had the same issues with drinking from a glass. I felt so relieved that someone else besides me suffered from the same issue as I did. I know it's not rational thinking but what the hell is rational thinking?

I have been to therapy for a couple years in a row. I don't go now. Talking about my fears and anxiety did help to alleviate the symptoms somewhat. I was recommended to try a drug called Cipralex. For me personally it's a miracle drug. I have to take it for the rest of my life. The old saying, "it is what it is" comes to mind.

My husband had a really hard time understanding what was wrong with me. He would brush me off and tell me to go and drink a double Neo Citran. He knows better now that I have been diagnosed with severe anxiety issues.

I also had issues when growing up with sexual abuse. The issues made me attempt suicide! I ended up in the loony bin. I just wanted to give up. Honestly, I can say that my guitar saved my life. Music is my savior. When things get overwhelming I go in my studio, shut the door and hibernate for hours on end.

Another thing that helps me is keeping busy, very busy. I am always doing something. I can't sit still and watch TV for very long. I don't go to movies because of this very reason. I love to multitask and love to have 10 things on the go at once. It keeps my mind preoccupied. It's how I function and the only way I can function.

If you saw me in a social setting you would think I was the highlight of the party but there's a whole other side of me that very few know about.

I honestly would approach your doctor and ask him for help. So what if you have to take medication! No big deal. If it makes your quality of life improve then so be it!

P.S. I do partake of marijuana edibles and they really are amazing. It allows me to be so creative and so relaxed. I used to smoke it like 25 years ago and then was introduced to edibles and I loved them. I am relaxed, creative and able to sleep like a champ. I partake a couple of times a week. I make my own canna butter and make cookies with it. I always have a stash on hand. It's nice to come home after a crazy day at work, eat a half of cookie and then I am good. It's definitely worth a try.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Thank you all for sharing. Its comforting to know that i am not the only one who has these attacks. I am not at the level where it overtakes my life and still can handle most of it. Its not a good feeling and i know it runs in our family. Reading all of your responses has a rather calming effect. I would seek pro help if it got to a point that it affects my sleep,eating etc...habits. Thank you so much all.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I never knew so many on the forum here, suffered from anxiety/depression or was as pronounced with some of you as it is. My wife and I both have issues with depression, especially, my wife. She has been on Cipralex for a number of years and is in the process of getting off of it. It can take awhile but have found a very good naturopath and has given her a supplement called theanine. It is a natural substance and helps to calm a person. Interestingly, our naturopath we had in Ontario had suggested it to me. I am now off of my medication and take two theanine a day and have been fine now for months. I am not recommending this as we should be careful as non-professionals in recommending something just because it works for us. However, what has been mentioned is something that you might want to ask about.

There have been some very good suggestions mentioned here and some of them have been known to work successfully for a lot of people. I looked up an article that deals with "How to Deal with Anxiety" that has some other practical suggestions you may find useful.

Watchtower Magazine, July 2015 | How to Deal With Anxiety


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

I am a little offended that you posted a link to the Jehovah's Witnesses in this thread.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lord-Humongous said:


> I am a little offended that you posted a link to the Jehovah's Witnesses in this thread.


Oh well. Thats the problem with the world today. Everyone seems to be offended about something.


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## bluebayou (May 25, 2015)

One of the techniques that I use is to first ground myself. Feet flat on the ground and deep calm breathing. Going to shopping malls is stil a challenge for me but I create an ilmaginary bubble all around me. When inside the mall I only let in to me that which I permit. All the other stuuf, the frenetic pace, overwhelming noise and anything else stays outside that bubble. Can take a bit of practice but does work for me. I can come out from the mall with my senses and sanity intact.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I think there may be two different topics being addressed here, using the same terms. Some folks are really talking about panic attacks, and others are just talking about excessive worry. Folks who experience panic attacks don't necessarily walk around worried, but when it hits, it hits like an out-of-control shitstorm. Conversely, even though it can exhaust them, folks who experience free-floating anxiety don't necessarily have panic attacks.

Related, certainly, but not the exact same thing, and effective treatments for the one are not likely to be effective for the other.


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## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

marcos said:


> How do some of you handle anxiety without drugs or alcool? Exercise, meditation etc...?


Dude, @marcos, do you not know where you are? Guitars man, this right here. Particularly playing through that sweet Princeton Reverb 



Jim DaddyO said:


> I find dealing with people and some of the stupid shit that goes on extremely frustrating and it wears on me for days.


Preaching to the choir, brother. People ARE the WORST! They totally offend me. Down with people, I say.



guitarman2 said:


> Oh well. Thats the problem with the world today. Everyone seems to be offended about something.


That's really offensive!

.
.
.

and humour, at your own or even at other's expense .

Jokes aside, for me, I fear that playing is pretty much the only thing keeping me sane these days ...


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I occasionally suffer from minor panic attacks. Usually for no obvious reason. Imagine an adrenaline rush while you're just sitting on the couch. Mostly, I just ride 'em out. They never last very long and I know that there's no immediate danger so...it'll pass.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)




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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

cheezyridr said:


>


The last two times I smoked that stuff, I got very paranoid. That was 33 years ago. I don't miss it one bit.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

45 years for me, but same sentiment. I couldn't see the appeal of being able to have one's mind wander but not be able to get up off the couch. Not much added-value there.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> The last two times I smoked that stuff, I got very paranoid. That was 33 years ago. I don't miss it one bit.


As my anxiety seemed to start from the abuse of drugs even the mere smell of marijiuana makes me feel anxious.


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## vokey design (Oct 24, 2006)

My family is currently struggling with anxiety, specifically my 6 year old daughter. Selective Mutism specifically, she would have headaches and stomach aches daily from anxiety, fear, pressure or however you want to describe it. After reading many books, attending seminars psychologist visits with no progression meds were prescribed. 6 weeks later we have a young HAPPY daughter. The difference has been nothing short of amazing. Almost right away she was telling us that she is talking to more kids at school (pre meds she would only talk to 2 others). At first we were not sure is she was just telling us what we wanted to hear or if it was actually helping. After a few weeks we starting getting more and more phone calls from other parents asking to set up play dates, birthday parties and sleepovers. She can actually have fun and talk to others now ... she is now able to just be a kid.

She has always wanted to participate in activities but once in the situation she would freeze, literally stand still and not talk. Her first hockey 3 lessons consisted of getting dressed and standing on the ice, the coaches would pull her around with her stick and she would stay exactly where they left her. Now she takes directions, has fun and will at least nod her head in response to questions.

I too have been dealing with anxiety all of my life, after seeing the dramatic difference in my daughter I am now thinking of seeking help myself. 

Best of luck,


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

guitarman2 said:


> As my anxiety seemed to start from the abuse of drugs even the mere smell of marijiuana makes me feel anxious.


There may be a good reason for that when you read the article in the link. 

Not Woodstock weed: How today's marijuana has changed


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

News flash!!! For some people like me, marijuana edibles are relief! It's all in how you physically tolerate weed and your mental mindset!

I don't get the munchies as a matter of fact my appetite takes a nose dive!

I am inclined to be even more energetic and active then normal! I can't sit still! Getting on a trampoline when I am hyper and have a buzz is the way for me to go. I love the act of bouncing! It makes me feel so good! Endorphines! 

It makes my creative juices flow freely.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> There may be a good reason for that when you read the article in the link.
> 
> Not Woodstock weed: How today's marijuana has changed


not much real information in that article. although it claims that there is more thc in pot these days, it does not say which type. there is thc9 and thc 35. one gets you high, the other your body cannot process, and therefore, does not affect you. the same strawman that allows pre employment screening for marijuana in the states.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

cheezyridr said:


> not much real information in that article. although it claims that there is more thc in pot these days, it does not say which type. there is thc9 and thc 35. one gets you high, the other your body cannot process, and therefore, does not affect you. the same strawman that allows pre employment screening for marijuana in the states.


The fact that it is 2 to 15 times higher than what was found in pot in the 1970's, I think speaks volumes.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Steadfastly said:


> The fact that it is 2 to 15 times higher than what was found in pot in the 1970's, I think speaks volumes.


But without knowing which one it is (the part that has an effect versus the part that does not) doesn't actually clarify things.

If there is 10 times more of something that has zero impact on your body (and life in general), is it a bad thing?

Be much more worried about fentanyl.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> The fact that it is 2 to 15 times higher than what was found in pot in the 1970's, I think speaks volumes.


I am all good with that! I know my limit! A slim 1/2 a cookie! You have to experiment to know what your tolerance is! Personally speaking today's pot is a lot stronger! There are so many different strains! Kush is what I prefer or Purple Haze! Different strains for different maladies!


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Budda said:


> Be much more worried about fentanyl.


I agree! Pot doesn't kill, fentanyl does!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> The fact that it is 2 to 15 times higher than what was found in pot in the 1970's, I think speaks volumes.


If it's strong, you just take less of it. And less often. Ever drink 151 proof rum?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

High/Deaf said:


> If it's strong, you just take less of it. And less often. Ever drink 151 proof rum?


The problem is, unless you the the lab equipment to test it you don't know. I know the stuff was dangerous when I was a crazy kid and smoked it. It is even more dangerous now. Many will not allow themselves to be convinced of this no matter what the tests say. It is similar with most alcoholics. I am not saying this to offend. It is just the simple truth of the matter.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> The problem is, unless you the the lab equipment to test it you don't know. I know the stuff was dangerous when I was a crazy kid and smoked it. It is even more dangerous now. Many will not allow themselves to be convinced of this no matter what the tests say. It is similar with most alcoholics. I am not saying this to offend. It is just the simple truth of the matter.


I disagree with you to a certain degree! It's does have great medicinal benefits it as well. If used correctly it can relieve so many things like pain from cancer treatments and cancer itself, depression and anxiety etc. I know because I consume edibles once or twice a week. Anxiety and such have been on vacation for 2 years. It's really relaxing and stress relieving. I feel so much better now. It also makes me take myself out of my comfort zone and I focus in on learning something a little more difficult to play. As you know I sure, Stairway to Heaven became an obsession song of mine and still is.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Lola said:


> I disagree with you to a certain degree! It's does have great medicinal benefits it as well. If used correctly it can relieve so many things like pain from cancer treatments and cancer itself, depression and anxiety etc. I know because I consume edibles once or twice a week. Anxiety and such have been on vacation for 2 years. It's really relaxing and stress relieving. I feel so much better now. It also makes me take myself out of my comfort zone and I focus in on learning something a little more difficult to play. As you know I sure, Stairway to Heaven became an obsession song of mine and still is.


Research has showed it can have some benefits as well. Smoking it and perhaps ingesting it in other ways also has shown it can have very detrimental effects, for example killing brain cells and harmful to the respiratory system and even causing death. With a record like that, a reasonable person would have to look seriously to see if the benefits outweighed the risks and in your case as in all cases, Lola, I certainly hope they do.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

My ex used to suffer from anxiety once in a while and we found that pot and sex helped, but you have to be careful where and when you do it. They frown on that in Sears. @Steadfastly....I did it to get stoned.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> Research has showed it can have some benefits as well. Smoking it and perhaps ingesting it in other ways also has shown it can have very detrimental effects, for example killing brain cells and harmful to the respiratory system and even causing death. With a record like that, a reasonable person would have to look seriously to see if the benefits outweighed the risks and in your case as in all cases, Lola, I certainly hope they do.


Obviously smoking it has benefits! I can't smoke it as it pushes me to the edge of Crazy! Edibles are controllable for me! 
There is very little evidence to support the fact that marijuana kills brain cells!
For me, the benefits far outweigh whatever the risks maybe!


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lola said:


> Obviously smoking it has benefits! I can't smoke it as it pushes me to the edge of Crazy! Edibles are controllable for me!
> There is very little evidence to support the fact that marijuana kills brain cells!
> For me, the benefits far outweigh whatever the risks maybe!


I smoked marijuana back in the 70's for a few years and haven't smoked since. I've run in to some old friends years later that smoked it all their lives and smoke it till this day. I've got to go with, in some cases it kills brain cells.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> The fact that it is 2 to 15 times higher than what was found in pot in the 1970's, I think speaks volumes.


i always think it funny that people with zero experience claim to know so much.
no point in using logic, science or personal experience to come to a conclusion, better to make use of stigma.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

cheezyridr said:


> i always think it funny that people with zero experience claim to know so much.
> no point in using logic, science or personal experience to come to a conclusion, better to make use of stigma.


Actually, that information is from the lab test that the CBC reported on.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

marcos said:


> How do some of you handle anxiety without drugs or alcool? Exercise, meditation etc...?
> Any helpful hints would be much appreciated
> Thank you


Interesting that a thread about how to handle anxiety without chemicals turned into a debate about pot.

As others have said, my methods include: fresh air and exercise, dial back the caffeine, plenty of rest, and accomplishing something meaningful during the day. Also getting to the root causes is helpful. Most of us have hurts and secrets in our lives that haven't been properly dealt with - get them out into the light of day with someone you trust.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

guitarman2 said:


> in some cases it kills brain cells.


What do you mean? Chronic user, forever occasional use! Clarify "some"!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

It's also under study to see what effect it has on a developing (teen) brain versus a fully developed (adult) brain.

If you started smoking weed at 14 and you seem like a burnout at 21, it's probably more to do with the fact that your brain wasn't done developing when you started smoking. If you start smoking at 31, you're probably going to seem like a normal person to everyone else, who's less stressed/whatever.

Just blindly talking about THC content doesn't actually help.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> The problem is, unless you the the lab equipment to test it you don't know. I know the stuff was dangerous when I was a crazy kid and smoked it. It is even more dangerous now. Many will not allow themselves to be convinced of this no matter what the tests say. It is similar with most alcoholics. I am not saying this to offend. It is just the simple truth of the matter.


Complete BS, from someone with obviously no experience. 

How much pot would it take to kill someone? No one knows, because it's never been accomplished. Dangerous? How so? Far less 'dangerous' that most legal drugs. Again, do you know anyone who has died or gone to the hospital from a pot overdose? I expect no answer because you never answer challenges like this. You know nothing of this topic and should just take a step back.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> Actually, that information is from the lab test that the CBC reported on.


LOL Perfect! A CBC expert. No wonder you have absolutely no understanding of the topic, if you think the CBC is a viable information source. LOL indeed!!!!


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> The fact that it is 2 to 15 times higher than what was found in pot in the 1970's, I think speaks volumes.



not if it's an inert chemical do you not understand that?


Steadfastly said:


> Actually, that information is from the lab test that the CBC reported on.


the one that doesn't tell you which type of thc has increased? so where is the value in that?
i can do a study that says people are talking more, so they must be lying more than ever. if i didn't tell you in my study whether there were more lies or more truth spoken, you would have no way of knowing. my study wouldn't be worth jack shit.

there are 2 kinds of thc in every marijuana plant, one of which does not get you high, and one does.
it means nothing to say thc has increased therefore potency has too, w/o telling you which chemical has increased, and by how much.
there is also no mention of the baseline dose and how they arrived at that measure. 
the ld50 for marihuana is about 1500lbs in 15 minutes. look it up. there are perfectly acceptable every day foods with far lower ratings

do you follow me now? you are relying on someone else's deliberately incomplete summation of a study as proof that their statement is factual. it may still be factual, but the article as written does not substantiate that. until you get to know the missing information you only have a columnists say so to support his own claim.

me myself, have been a smoker for about 40 years. _my personal experience_ tells me that pot is not stronger per say, but there is more of the good stuff available now. that's merely a matter of technology and convenience. if a man walked into your house to fix a leaky pipe and had 40 yrs experience, you'd smartly listen to what he had to say.

before reagan and the war on drugs, getting weed from other countries was pretty easy. as a young teen i had the best available. sure some people with weak connections only bought mexican which was shit. but then people like me could get hawaiian or afghanistan that would knock your dick in the dirt. it's like some guys drink bud lite, some guys drink imported beer.
buying the components to grow good weed is cheep these days thanks to modern manufacturing and chinese labor.
the science that allows one to grow lovely hydroponic plants like those seen in high times magazine is common place and has been for a long time.
the internet is chock full of how to videos and tutorials
it's easier today than it ever has been to grow awesome weed.
weed isn't stronger, there's just more of the good stuff available, and it's more affordable.
people like a boogie man to point at.
especially when they are led by the media, and conservative politicians.
both of whom have alot to gain by promoting false stigmas against marijuana.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I would have to agree with Cheezy! I have never heard of anyone dying from pot or even abuse of this substance!


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## vokey design (Oct 24, 2006)

Perhaps a moderator can change the thread title to "The great pot debate", then cut and paste the initial question in a new thread? 

Just sayin'


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Here is the reality of any and all drugs that have psychotropic effects, legal and otherwise, scientifically-developed or "natural", used clinically or otherwise: they "work" because your body doesn't know what to do with them. 

The nervous system has all manner of enzymes to remove or break down neurotransmitters and neuromodulators near instantaneously. Why? Because the nervous system can only function if neural impulses are _brief_. Neurotransmitter molecule squirts out, crosses the synaptic gap, lands on a receptor site, causes a momentary imbalance (and we're talking mere milliseconds here) then is taken out of commission or simply falls away. They may be repetitive but can only BE repetitive because they have only a very brief effect before they are either metabolized or taken back up into the cell from whence they came. It's far more complex than that, but the point is that NORMAL brain functioning relies on messages being very discrete and not dragging on.

"Drugs" on the other hand, while they can mimic neurotransmitters produced by the nervous system, generally are not complemented by enzymes produced within the nervous system that can break those substances down or otherwise remove them from receptor sites quickly. We've probably all heard of _endorphins_, the transmitter family hypothesized by the late Sol Snyder and Candace Pert ( Candace Pert, 67, Explorer of the Brain, Dies ). Their assumption was that morphine and other opioids must work by stimulating receptors that respond to such molecules, and receptor sites would only exist if a neurotransmitter very similar to morphine already _existed_ in the nervous system. They looked, and by gum, they found it, and named it endorphin (to mean a morphine that was endogenous to the nervous system). But while endorphins have corresponding enzymes to break them down, and mechanisms to suck them back into the cells from whence they came, just like other neurotransmitters in the normal nervous system, morphine and other opioids are like the roach motel - they check in but they don't check out. So the drugs essentially works by lingering. And it is extremely rare (if it ever happens at all) that receptor sites can be stimulated or blocked in prolonged fashion without resulting in a change in the neuron being stimulated or blocked. If neurons are stimulated in prolonged fashion, they "down-regulate" and reduce the number of receptor sites to compensate. If blocked, they do they reverse.

So, the very idea that ANY psychotropic drug, even the "good ones" that a psychiatrist or other physician might prescribe for some problem, are 100% benign and completely free of long-term impact, is out and out horse-doody. The question then becomes whether the long-term impact of use of that drug is worse than the problem it is being used for, or whether the problem is worse than the long-term drug effect and the improvement in quality or duration of life is worth the risk.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

mhammer said:


> So, the very idea that ANY psychotropic drug, even the "good ones" that a psychiatrist or other physician might prescribe for some problem, are 100% benign and completely free of long-term impact, is out and out horse-doody. The question then becomes whether the long-term impact of use of that drug is worse than the problem it is being used for, or whether the problem is worse than the long-term drug effect and the improvement in quality or duration of life is worth the risk.


i didn't make up the ld50 for marijuana. doctors and scientists came up with that number. ld50 is the lethal dose required to kill 50 lab mice. 
1500 lbs in 15 minutes. caffiene on the other hand is about 127 milligrams. any child can go abd buy coffee, redbull, aspirin, or any number of substances more lethal than marijuana. to paint it as some nefarious substance is immature and deliberately obtuse






vokey design said:


> Perhaps a moderator can change the thread title to "The great pot debate", then cut and paste the initial question in a new thread?
> 
> Just sayin'



you've been around here long enough to know that thread hijacks and bunny trails are the norm rather than the exception.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Not targetting weed specifically. There is just a lot of if-it-came-from-a-lab-it-has-bad-effects-if-it-comes-from-nature-it's-implicitly-harmless floating around out there, and folks need to realize that all drugs share certain features in common. If any of the psychotropic substances out there worked as quickly as one's own neurochemistry did, nobody would take them. It's the fact that they can't be metabolized quickly that actually gives them an effect.

As for what the effects are, it doesn't have to kill anyone to be considered a source of personal risk or societal cost. All it has to do is throw your life a bigger curve ball than you were expecting. The search for "better" psychiatric medications is the ongoing search for substances that have a positive effect on the "the problem" but with fewer long-term side effects. And I emphasize "fewer", because there is no free lunch. EVERYTHING is going to have side effects.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Quoted from my post. Pretty clear. Smoked it all their lives. See its getting your brain cells already.



> I've run in to some old friends years later that smoked it all their lives and smoke it till this day


jk. I don't know, when I knew them it was every day. When I run into them years later and they haven't changed a bit and still look stoned, just looked like brain damage to me.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I can see this is going to turn in to a shit show!

Those that think they know everything about pot but have never used and ?

Just great words Cheezy, nefarious and obtuse! Perfectly worded!


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

I do have some anxiety in big crowds on occasion and I've smoked/vaped pot since I was 14-15. Now it is pretty much a daily thing, mostly in the evening as I realized an ADD mofo like myself needs to keep my mind on the task at hand during the day. That said I used to puff morning, noon and night in my 20's. Do I relate the 2.... not at all. Sure pot can make you anxious or paranoid, just find different pot. They all work a little different so no concrete statements can be regarding pot does Xxxxx. Although from experience I find some sativa's can bring it on. Just need to find the fine kind. It is a big relief to my friend who has bad anxiety (on prescription benzo's, pretty hooked last I saw) to get the right type of pot that helps his anxiety instead of bringing it on. Hence the need for med pot and open doors to research for specific strains to help specific ailments. 

For me a hug has helped bring me down when at a concert surrounded by people. The first time it happened I was at Jazzfest in montreal around 2005, I thought somebody drugged my beer. Just had 1 beer from a vendor and once i was finished I felt a really bad headrush come on, shortness of breath and eventually blacked out on the person behind me. I got up pretty quickly and went into an air conditioned building to cool off. No pot, just 1 beer. wierd, has happened at other concerts so I know what brings it on and I've learned to breath through it. It must really suck to deal with that regularly.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I didn't have any issues until I got married. Had been single for 9 Yeats mostly because I worked straight afternoons. But I did meet someone and she had two pre teens. Once we all moved in together my life changed drastically. For 13 years I had a million more things to be responsible for and my wife would say I had anger issues. For 13 Yeats going to doctors because of that. Nothing worked. Until I read an article about anxiety and realized the article was describing me to a T. So I talked to a doctor and finally I feel better with the help of a pill every day.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

knight_yyz said:


> I didn't have any issues until I got married. Had been single for 9 Yeats mostly because I worked straight afternoons. But I did meet someone and she had two pre teens. Once we all moved in together my life changed drastically. For 13 years I had a million more things to be responsible for and my wife would say I had anger issues. For 13 Yeats going to doctors because of that. Nothing worked. Until I read an article about anxiety and realized the article was describing me to a T. So I talked to a doctor and finally I feel better with the help of a pill every day.


You took on a lot of responsibility. I can see how that could have such an adverse effect on you. So glad you got the help you need. It may be that many that suffer from mental/emotional issues had latent problems that we handle fine until stress/anxiety push us over the edge and those latent issues raise their ugly heads.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I got a handle on my anxiety! 

Last week I had a horrible panic attack! I knew something was up by the way I felt. It took literally minutes for my symptoms to explode into a full blown episode! I got my coat on, edible in hand and walked my butt off while munching on my cookie. Within 1/2 HR or there abouts I could honestly feel my mind and body start to relax. I walked for what seemed like eons. I was able to come home and just sit and play guitar in a positive frame of mind! 

I never have panic attacks when I have been high because I can just talk myself right out of them! Eating edibles works for me! 

I still have to take Cipralex as well. It's a two pronged approach!


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I have recently been diagnosed with hypertension (and yesterday was World Hypertension Day). It at least partially explains the performance anxiety sort of symptoms I've been having. A week after starting the meds I was prescribed I found myself at emerg with a nasty reaction. Once stabilized, all was well, and I have continued with the med.

Blood pressure? I didn't know.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

Are you employed?
Are you educated to the point to satisfy your own intelligence?
Do you have an intimate relationship?
Are you addicted to drugs or alcohol?
Where do you see yourself in the dominant hierarchy?

If you answer yes to the top four, you're clinically depressed and may profit from SSRI's or other mood inhibitors. If you're only a couple, those are things you can work on. The last point is more complicated, but ties in directly to anxiety issues.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

I've been listening to free lectures from Jordan Peterson, clinical psychologist/professor at UofT. He is somewhat of a polarizing figure for going against the PC grain, but he is a great prof and has changed my life as well as others I know.





 This is him in a 3hr interview with Joe Rogan where I first heard from him. If you go to Petersons youtube page you can find full semesters of lectures, which I've recently been turned on to.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I had a short bout with anxiety over a year ago. Completely work related. I was getting pushed out and it screwed with my head. Cipralex messed with my sleep patterns too much.
Once I got my severance package and left, the anxiety was all gone with a few days. Hasn't returned.
Might have to figure out what triggers it for you, and see if eliminating it is an option.


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