# Fret buzz....



## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

I having issues with my 5th (A) string buzzing. It seems to be buzzing on the first fret or three. I've tried tweaking the neck and raising the bridge with no joy.

Time for a tech?


----------



## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

if it's a LP..did you check your nut?..is the groove deeper then normal?..on the sting that's buzzing naturally!....i just fixed a studio that had that exact problem


----------



## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

It's an LP, and that's what I suspect. Is there an easy fix? Or does it require a new nut?

If so, recommendations for material?


----------



## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

If that's the problem, then a new nut is needed. It's a great excuse to get a nice bone nut made, and maybe even Buzz Feiten done! The temporary fix is a tiny piece of paper under the string at the nut.


----------



## Alain Moisan (Jan 16, 2010)

screamingdaisy said:


> I having issues with my 5th (A) string buzzing. It seems to be buzzing on the first fret or three. I've tried tweaking the neck and raising the bridge with no joy.
> 
> Time for a tech?


When you say it's buzzing 'on the first fret or three', I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean it buzz when you fret the first or third fret? Or do you mean the string buzz on open string by making contact with the first and/or third fret while the string vibrates?

That's important because if the buzz occurs when the string is fretted, than it has nothing to do with the nut. It would probably mean uneven frets. Time for a tech, as you say. If the buzz occurs on open string, than it is the nut slot that is too deep. In that case you can eaither replace the nut, as mrmatt1972 suggested, or simply shiming the actual nut and proceeding with ajusting all slots. In any case, 'time for a tech' if you are not experienced and/or tooled up for that.


----------



## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

I say first fret or three because I've tried listenening up and down the neck and I can't narrow it down to a particular fret.

Also, it buzzes both when open and when fretted on the first couple of frets.

It's extra irritating because it rings through the amplifier.

I'll try shimming the one string as a temporary fix. Once I have some cash available I'll drop it off at the techs and let him fix it properly.


----------



## Alain Moisan (Jan 16, 2010)

Shimming that one string will only help you on the open string. I don't think you will be able to get around a proper setup by a good tech/luthier.

You might want to try to raise the bridge sightly, only the screw aside the 6th string. You will have a slightly higher action, but it just might be enough to fix it for good.

If you haven't read it yet, I suggest you read the article I wrote about what to check on your guitar to know if it needs a setup. The article is here. That will help you identify the potential problem. If you come back to us with what seems to be wrong, than we might be able to save you a trip to the tech!

Good luck!


----------



## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

Check the neck too...if there is a small hump there it could be removed by backing off the truss rod 1/8 to 1/4 turn


----------



## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

Alain Moisan said:


> Shimming that one string will only help you on the open string. I don't think you will be able to get around a proper setup by a good tech/luthier.
> 
> You might want to try to raise the bridge sightly, only the screw aside the 6th string. You will have a slightly higher action, but it just might be enough to fix it for good.
> 
> ...


The action at the 1st fret is less than 1mm (across all 6 strings).

The action at the 12th fret is 2mm (I raised the bridge yesterday, so it was probably around 1.5mm before adjustments).

New nut?


----------



## Alain Moisan (Jan 16, 2010)

I need more information.

- As washburned mentioned, did you check the relief (curvature of the neck)?
- You say 2mm action, but on which string? Across all 6? That's pretty low. You would need a prefectly setup guitar to have this type of action without any buzz.
- You mention action at the 1st fret being les than 1mm. I need more precision. If you press the string on the 3d fret, how much room is left between the top of the first fret and the bottom of the string? (The 5th string, the one that buzz...)

On thing that is for sure though, if you get some buzz when the string is fretted, a new nut won't change a thing to that.


----------



## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

Dropped it off at the guitar techs.

Not the most adventurous answer, but I learned a long time ago that I'm no Luthier...


----------



## Alain Moisan (Jan 16, 2010)

Well, I'm sorry we weren't able to help you out more than this.

I guess bringing your guitar to a tech was the wise thing to do.


----------



## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

Getting irritated....

I've taken it to two different techs now and both have returned it with the 5th (A) string still buzzing.

Now that the guitar is arguably 'perfectly' setup I remeasured everything.

At the first fret there is a 1mm gap between each string and the fret (it could be 0.9mm, depending on how you look at it).

At the 12th fret there is a 2.5mm gap on the bass side, and a 1.5mm gap on the treble side.

When I press down on the 3rd fret, there is a tiny gap at the first fret (enough to fit a piece of paper through).

Neck relief is fine.

I tried raising the bridge to 4mm (bass) and 3mm (treble) and it still buzzes. It's less blatant, but it's still there.


----------



## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

What did the techs do, do you know?

It sounds like you might have a high spot on fret 4 or 5 or 6 or so, just under the A string.

Or there could be some kind of problem at the saddle.


----------



## Alain Moisan (Jan 16, 2010)

4 mm at the bass side is pretty high. If you still have some buzzing with that action something's weird. How close are the pickups to the strings? The strings might be buzzing on the pickups if they are too high, which would also explain why you can hear the buzz in the amplifier (which doesn't happen with normal fret buzz).


----------



## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

The first one wasn't around when I picked up the guitar, so I'm not 100% sure.

I told the second one that I thought the problem was with the nut. He went over it and wasn't able to find anything wrong with it. He had himself and one of the other shop employees play it and it didn't buzz. I tried it myself in my lap and it didn't buzz, however once I got it home and hung it off a strap it started buzzing after about 5 minutes.

I think the buzz is actually coming from two sources... the 1st fret and one further up the neck (probably the last/22nd fret). I just noticed this a moment ago as I played the string going up... if I start fretting at the 22nd fret and working my way towards the nut it starts buzzing at the 13th fret and it keeps buzzing all the way to the first, but when I play the open string the buzz moves to the opposite end of the neck.

I think it's the 22nd fret because it's freshly worn when, 1) I never play that high up on the neck, and 2) the 21st fret is dull.


----------



## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

Alain Moisan said:


> 4 mm at the bass side is pretty high. If you still have some buzzing with that action something's weird. How close are the pickups to the strings? The strings might be buzzing on the pickups if they are too high, which would also explain why you can hear the buzz in the amplifier (which doesn't happen with normal fret buzz).


The pickups (P90s) were at 1/8th of an inch. They're now just shy of a full 1/4" away and it still buzzes (plus the guitar now sounds like crap).


----------



## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

Raising the action would have fixed that, I would think, if it's really the 22nd fret.

It's easy enough to check, though. Just measure the action at the 22nd fret while you're fretting in various places (like 13 and less) and see if it's really close.


----------



## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

I just measured and compared it to the last couple of frets and I don't see anything abnormal (ie, it doesn't appear to stick out any further than the 21st fret)... but if it is the problem I would assume the difference would be very subtle?

I had my wife listen to it from straight out front and she said it sounds like it's coming from the 22nd fret when I strum normally, and from somewhere up around the first fret if I pick as light as possible while still picking hard enough to get it to buzz. Any harder than that and the buzz on the 22nd fret over takes it in volume.


----------



## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

Alright... went from 9-46 to 10-52 in an effort to reduce fret buzz. Didn't change anything, but I don't think it's a fret issue any more.

Stuck a cardboard shim between the string and the nut, no change.

Tried shimming between the string and the saddle, no change.

Here's an interesting one. I tried retuning the guitar in E instead of Eb and the following happened;

1) the 'sitar' like effect decreased on the 5th string as it was changed from G# to A.

2) the 'faint sitar' like effect increased on the 3rd string as it was changed from Gb to G.

The effect seems to start faintly around F, then gradually increase in volume and pitch until it peaks just shy of G#, then it decreases in volume until it's unheard around B. I've tried this on two different strings and it's the same on both. This also seems to be why the guitar rings as I move around the neck, which is why I initially thought it was buzzing off the 22nd fret.

I've tried damping the strings behind the nut and between the bridge/tailpiece. I've tried damping the bridge with my palm. I've tried shoving a rag under the bridge/tail piece.

It 'sitars' on either pickup, and it does it unplugged.

Any thoughts?


----------



## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

Sounds like something else on the guitar is vibrating, in sympathy with specific notes.

It should be possible to repro this by playing those same notes in other places (e.g. on other strings).

I don't know what it would be. I've heard this on a strat type guitar with springs in the back, but not a Les Paul type.

Could be the pickguard, maybe?

Definitely a strange one.


----------



## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

I spent much of yesterday working on it and it doesn't seem to be the neck. Originally I thought it was some fret buzz as the 5th string (G# as the guitar was tuned down a semi-tone) was suffering from sitar like overtones when played open, but it would also sitar when fretted so I thought it may have been the 22nd fret was a little high.

I uploaded a clip on youtube detailing the buzz/overtone, but I can't access it from work.

I've since confirmed it's not a fret problem (shimmed both ends of the string well above the fretoboard and it's still sitar-ing. There seems to be a sympathetic vibration somewhere in the guitar that peaks between G and G#... so from around F# to G# it gets louder, and then it tapers off from G# to B. It does this on every string, everywhere on the guitar. The open 5th string just does it the worst, probably because it's the largest mass.

I've tried changing strings, went to a bigger size, and I've tried damping the strings with a rag. I tried stuffing a rag under the stoptail and brigde. I've tried damping the tuning machines. I've removed the two control cavity covers. I've removed the retaining wire on the bridge. I tried popping each saddle out individually. I've verified that there's no loose parts.

Next I plan on removing the bridge and tailpiece and figuring a way to dampen where they touch the mounting studs. After that I'll pull the bridge/stoptail off my other Les Paul and try that.

Here's a video. I don't know how obvious it is to others, but to me it really stands out. It's at the point where my wife is complaining about it...

[YOUTUBE]UDipH7pGEww[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

I pulled the bridge, stoptail and bridge studs. I applied a little bit of threadlocker to the studs and bridge adjustment screws in an effort to deaden any potential vibration. No change.

Next I'm going to try removing the tuning machines one at a time...


----------



## Emohawk (Feb 3, 2006)

Just a point of interest...

I have a problem with fret buzz on my SG standard's A string also. The problem is definitely with the nut slot being cut a little too deep. I can see it if I look closely - and it's buzzing at the first fret. Shimming the string as someone recommended earlier worked for me, so I'll have to cut a new nut for it I guess.

I couldn't hear much out of whack in the video clip...might be my POS computer speakers though.


----------



## screamingdaisy (Oct 14, 2008)

I think the problem is knowing what to listen for. I'm so used to it now my ears hear it right away, whereas others don't seem to hear what I'm talking about until I tune them into it, and then they have it right away.


----------

