# Marshall Tube amps



## ernhrtjr (Nov 5, 2006)

I am looking to buy a marshall tube amp TSL602. Does anyone know about these amps? Or what I should be looking for in a tube amp? I am a beginner when it comes to amps, I have a 2004 Standard Les Paul and want to make it sound like, 
it should sound. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

ernhrtjr said:


> I am looking to buy a marshall tube amp TSL602. Does anyone know about these amps? Or what I should be looking for in a tube amp? I am a beginner when it comes to amps, I have a 2004 Standard Les Paul and want to make it sound like,
> it should sound. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Marshall amps are meant to be played LOUD. You take a loud Marshall and an LP,... you have bliss. At low volumes you may have to add an OD pedal if you to emulate that tube driven LP/Marshall sound. 

So, ask yourself. How loud do I want to play? How loud can I play without the police being called or getting evicted.


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## GuitaristZ (Jan 26, 2007)

If I were you, check out the marshall dsl50. Its very loud, but still has a nice tone at lower volumes.
I currently own one, and have played it ranging from my basement, to my main venue with seating for about 300. I love it 

The dsl50 is also at a great price right now. I saw a head last week, in great condition, for about 850$...that is an amazing deal for such a great head.


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

JCM2000 is the worst all tube Marshall available IMO, especially the cleans. And the combo you're talking about costs $1649.99 new? Go used and you can get a JCM800 or JCM900 half stack for the same price or even lower. 

Looking locally right now I see a JCM800 head + the 1960 cab for $1500... a JCM900 head for $900 and a 1960 cab for $600... so for $1500 you could have a better sounding setup for less cash and they're in perfect condition. 

JCM800 is _the_ classic rock tone... JCM900 is pretty good for high gain / hard rock stuff, add an overdrive pedal and you're set.... it can do blues / classic rock very well too. Excellent head, my step dad has one and I use his over my 800 everytime I go to the jam room. 

You can find used combos of the 800 and 900 occasionally too, go for about $1000 from what I've see.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

I would ditch the marshall idea & go with a SF fender vibrolux/super reverb/pro reverb

they don't look as cool, but they are built & sound better than any marshall made after about 1987 IMO

also you can get a cool boutique head/amp for way less than the cost of a new marshall, that will smoke any new production marshall...ie: Dr. Z should be fairly easy to find

....or get an old Garnet/Traynor :wink:


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

If you are looking for a great Marshall sound with a LP, get yourself something that has enough power and sounds great clean, then buy yourself a Zvex Box of Rock. I just got one and it sounds fantastic at bedroom level and cranked.


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## GuitaristZ (Jan 26, 2007)

violation said:


> JCM2000 is the worst all tube Marshall available


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh3jZnqlybQ

you were saying?  You obviously are just parroting what someone else has said...or something...

The JCM2000 does not sound exactly like the other JCMs, but it sure is a lot more versatile. And saying that it "is the worst all tube Marshall available," is just plain ignorant in my opinion. And we are both entitled to our opinions.

More JCM2000 clips:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=677250


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

GuitaristZ said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh3jZnqlybQ
> 
> you were saying?  You obviously are just parroting what someone else has said...or something...
> 
> ...


Were those supposed to impress me? Just confirmed my opinion that it's the worst all tube Marshall available. And no, I'm not repeating what someone said, I used one for atleast 5 hours when I stayed the day and night at a friends house (not by choice, was his only spare amp... this was the same day I fell in love with Mesa). 

JCM800, JCM900, JVM and all those old school Marshalls sound a lot better IMO. JCM900 and JVM are hands down the most versatile Marshalls available to date and do it sounding good.


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## GuitaristZ (Jan 26, 2007)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XXYjEMTQRm0

suck on that...worst all tube marshall? I dont think so. 

thats what I thought


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

GuitaristZ said:


> http://youtube.com/watch?v=XXYjEMTQRm0
> 
> suck on that...worst all tube marshall? I dont think so.
> 
> thats what I thought


Still the worst... go play a JCM800, JCM900, JVM or any of those old school Marshall models. They _all_ sound better. Especially those really old, really expensive ones from the 70's... like the ones Yngwie (50 watt Mark II models I believe?) uses. Sex for your ears. Or this one:

http://songbirdmusic.com/product_details.asp?id=22758

Same amp Rhoads used... * drools *

On the note of Gary Moore, he typically uses old school JCM 800's with a Marshall Guv'nor if I remember correctly. I know it's a JCM800 'cause that's why Zakk got his originally.


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## GuitaristZ (Jan 26, 2007)

violation said:


> Still the worst... go play a JCM800, JCM900, JVM or any of those old school Marshall models. They _all_ sound better. Especially those really old, really expensive ones from the 70's... like the ones Yngwie (50 watt Mark II models I believe?) uses. Sex for your ears. Or this one:
> 
> http://songbirdmusic.com/product_details.asp?id=22758
> 
> ...


In that video...Gary Moore was using a dsl50. Gary Moore, which definately has an ear for tone, and of course has a huge marshall amp collection, uses a dsl50 for his live shows recently...that speaks for itself. He has a bunch of other amps, etc...but yeah...he still chooses the dsl50.


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

And from that clip I can tell his tone has suffered compared to his older, good tone.


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## GuitaristZ (Jan 26, 2007)

LOL...sure...enough foolishness...if he wants to sound just like a 800, then get an 800. If they guy wants versatility, great tone, and a good price, get the dsl series


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## Adicted to Tubes (Mar 5, 2006)

The only thing the DSL series does is make more grind from the diode bounding circuits.It's synthetic distortion.Not that that's all bad,it's just not like a JCM800 cranked with a les paul.
The TSL series is even more synthesized.Three channels for what?Nothing else beats the sound of tube distortion.Diodes don't cut it.
Listen to Gary Moore with a STRAT.Single coils.With a humbucker it's crushing.The idea of the new marshalls is to get grind at lower volume levels.Thus the need for diodes.When you add diodes to a tube amp circuit it sucks the life out of the amp and makes all guitars sound the same.
Experiment:take a DSL and set it at high gain,scouped mid.A strat can sound the same as a les paul.With a JCM800 the individual guitar sounds shine through.
It's like a boogie.Synthetic.Yuck!


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## GuitaristZ (Jan 26, 2007)

Good Lord...DSLS dont have diode distortion...


http://www.marshallampforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8636&highlight=dsl+diode

and even if they did and you thought it sounded buzzy...you could turn down the gain and mainly use power tube distortion...


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## GuitaristZ (Jan 26, 2007)

I see the marshall amp community is not liking you guys very much...show some respect for the greatest amps ever made 

I dont think they like violation very much haha


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=310033

recorded with a dsl50


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Boys, Boys, Boys. Easy. Marshall has lots of variety for everyone. Except for low watt guys, but again that's like asking Porsche for 911 with 2 litre 4 cylinder. Some people can get their sound out of a TSL, some need a good old JTM45. 

P.S. Right now I'm listening to Cream, Live, March 1968, Huge Marshall Stacks !!!!!


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

Adicted to Tubes said:


> The only thing the DSL series does is make more grind from the diode bounding circuits.It's synthetic distortion.Not that that's all bad,it's just not like a JCM800 cranked with a les paul.
> The TSL series is even more synthesized.Three channels for what?Nothing else beats the sound of tube distortion.Diodes don't cut it.
> Listen to Gary Moore with a STRAT.Single coils.With a humbucker it's crushing.The idea of the new marshalls is to get grind at lower volume levels.Thus the need for diodes.When you add diodes to a tube amp circuit it sucks the life out of the amp and makes all guitars sound the same.
> Experiment:take a DSL and set it at high gain,scouped mid.A strat can sound the same as a les paul.With a JCM800 the individual guitar sounds shine through.
> It's like a boogie.Synthetic.Yuck!


In the immortal words of Slip Mahoney: "Indubiously!"

+1 to everything A2T has said! I've repaired JCM2000's, DSL's and TSL's and they are just a JCM800 bastardized with extra solid state stuff to wash out the good tone with fuzzbox transistor distortion.

To me they sound like a 10w Crate practice amp dimed! 

By all means, get a JCM800 or a clone. The 2000 is also a PITA to work on, giving Booger a run for their money. This means more money to me on the bill to the customer, but at the cost of higher blood pressure from the aggravation.

Oh well, if you're rich and don't have to worry then by all means go for it...


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## GuitaristZ (Jan 26, 2007)

There are 800's and 900's with diode clipping I hear... 



> JCM 900 master volumes:
> 
> The JCM 900 master volume was designed to give the late 80ies metal bands what they wanted the most, MORE GAIN. And more gain they got. However, the sound of the 900s is not as ballsy as the 800s’. To get the extra gain, the diode clipping-circuit was modified which in turn gave not only more gain but also a somewhat buzzier and brighter distortion.
> But the players loved it anyway, and lots of people still do. By backing the gain of you decrease the amount solid state-clipped signal (the clipping circuit is fed with less signal the lower the gain is set) and you can get some killer more vintage "true tubeish" tones out of these amps too. The tones produced by these amps will first and foremost suit modern thrash metal, hardcore or punk players that don’t need a clean sound. In 1994 the Mk III was replaced by the Mk IIII, also known as the SLX. These amps feature an extra ECC83 (12AX7) preamp tube and even more gain than the original JCM 900 master volumes.


References:
http://www.guitarsite.com/guitar_FAQ2.htm
http://www.jcfonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29170
An article that specifically quotes an amp technician removing diode circuits in the JCM800 to make them sound better I suppose..but he says you will lose a lot of gain.





and isnt it funny...how you guys keep saying stuff like "oh theres this awesome distortion/overdrive pedal that I love the sound of" and you forget that these use diodes to clip :|And then you say, just because an amplifier uses a diode utilizing circuit to produce more gain (which is a good thing for a lot of people, and a lot of people like the gain) that it has to sound bad.
referenced: http://users.sa.chariot.net.au/~gmarts/ampovdrv.htm

Plus...why do you guys run overdrives, etc into your amplifiers to get more gain, if diodes are a bad thing? The PROCO rat is one of the most praised distortions and guess what...it uses diodes 

maybe I dont understand this topic that well...but please explain more.



im here to learn too...so if I am wrong, then correct me. I want to know.


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## Cross (Jan 8, 2007)

This thread just seems to be a pissing match about which Marshall model sucks or which one is better. I wouldn't be surprised if the topic starter has become even more confused about what kind of tube amp he should buy. 

I would simply recommend that you go to your local music store and plug your guitar into as many tube amps as you can. Nevermind the name or model type, let your ears be the judge to what YOU think sounds best for yourself. Hopefully that perfect amp you find will also meet your budget, but if money is not an option, then you have a boatload of selections. Find an amp that you'll enjoy listening to yourself play through each and everytime. Good luck with the hunt!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

and cross pipes up with the GOOD advice. i thought i was LEAVING the drama .

most people choose the DSL over the TSL. i have played a TSL with a les paul, and it was not that great. if you're looking at combos:

used mesa DC studio or whatever it is, Calibre
traynor YCV40/YCV50
Peavey classic 30 or 50
Marshall JCM800/900 combo

actually...play anything you can get your hands on, with YOUR Guitar.


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## Adicted to Tubes (Mar 5, 2006)

You need to listen to us old timers sometimes.
Wild Bill and i repair lots of amps.We come across New Marshall and Boogie amps that are absolute nightmares to work on.They are slammed together by a wave soldering machine and a bunch of ladies in china.They break down often and they are hard to fix,in some cases,impossible.If you like the sound,great,but when it breaks you are stuck with it.The originl JCM800 had no diodes or transistors to screw up on you.They are easy to fix and with a very little bit of modding can sound better than the diode bound cousins that replaced them.Why do you think Fender and Marshall are coming back with the 'hand-wired' series?because real musicians want them.They are tired of dragging their boogies and DSL,TSL's in for repairs.And they often sit for weeks on end while the tech sources parts from marshall or boogie.
You bring in a JCM 800 from 1985 and it's out in two days.

'good lord,DSL's don't have diode distortion' ever seen the inside of one?So many transistors and diodes that you can't see the tubes.

www.claramps.com


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

If you want the classic tube Marshall, I think used JCM800s are still quite reasonably priced. I have an old 4010, 50 watt, 1-12" speaker. The little thing is a monster.

If you want 'close', lots of the later models will get you there.

I gig with a JTM60, I think it sounds quite good. And it gives me channel switching, which I like for gigging. But it simply doesn't deliver the tone that a JCM800 does. Or, of course, earlier, but much more expensive, models do.

I think the diode circuits will crunch pretty good actually. But I think they lack the warmth that you can only find through real tubes. The real question is whether it really matters to you or not. I think that warmth is what Addicted to Tubes is referring to, maybe it is something only us old timers understand anymore.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

I've got a JCM800 2x12 combo. Unbelievably loud. It's the EL34 version rather than the 6550. Amazing tone.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that the old JCM800's that came to Canada were EL34's (British) and 6550's were shipped to the US - Marshall thought they would sound closer to Fender so they'd be more acceptable to the US market.
That's why the Canadian models are more sought after.

Of course, that could just be an old wive's tale.

And I agree, my little 1-12 combo will make your ears bleed.


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## Adicted to Tubes (Mar 5, 2006)

The only difference from the 6550 to the EL34 is one wire and two resistors.The screen resistors are 1k and the grid stoppers are 5.6k.I actually think marshall left the original EL34 setup intact and just popped in a set of 6550's.The bias might be a tad different but they should work fine.
I just worked on a TSL60 2-12 combo and it is literally a nightmare of circuitry inside.Reverb,boost,channel switching etc,etc,etc.....Diodes,transistors,and lots of relays and thermistors,you name it.All on a rather thin PC board.
Designed obsolesence.Just like cars.How many guys here can diagnose and repair a 2007 Cadillac?


www.claramps.com


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

Haha... I don't even need to reply to that kids comments, looks like you guys did it for me! Thanks :wink:

Never knew you could buy old JCM800s with 6550's, I always thought people modded the common EL34 ones. Learn something new everyday, :banana:


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

violation said:


> Never knew you could buy old JCM800s with 6550's, I always thought people modded the common EL34 ones. Learn something new everyday, :banana:


Yep. an old JCM800 with 6550's and Hell's Bells, I'm Back in Black!

:rockon2:


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## offkey_ (Jan 29, 2007)

dwagar said:


> I think that warmth is what Addicted to Tubes is referring to, maybe it is something only us old timers understand anymore.


 I completely understand what "warmth" is.....does this make me old?


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

offkey_ said:


> I completely understand what "warmth" is.....does this make me old?


sorry, but yes it does.
:smile:


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

offkey_ said:


> I completely understand what "warmth" is.....does this make me old?


At least it makes you an honourary fogey. :wink:


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

So .... 

Has Marshall made a good amp in the past 30 years? 

Or is "Marshall" just a tone that we seek in other manufacturer's gear?


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> So ....
> 
> Has Marshall made a good amp in the past 30 years?
> 
> Or is "Marshall" just a tone that we seek in other manufacturer's gear?


JVM is pretty wicked... can get that good JCM800 crunch with it among TONS of other good tones. Check one out next time you get a chance... the only thing that puts me off is the price ($1900 for the head and over $2500 for the combo if I remember right...), but it's more than worth it if you love the Marshall tone.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

If the JVM's deliver what they are supposed to, I think the price really isn't too bad.


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

Sounded pretty when I got to try my friends... here's a video review Guitar World did to give you an idea of how it sounds. 

http://jgwebdesign.net/host/MarshallJVM410.mov


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## mike7 (May 13, 2007)

Do not get the TSL. The JVM has better tone and is even more versatile. Well worth the money. If it's a bit too pricey try a jcm 800/900.


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## )))RVC((( (Jun 24, 2007)

GuitaristZ said:


> I see the marshall amp community is not liking you guys very much...show some respect for the greatest amps ever made
> 
> I dont think they like violation very much haha
> 
> ...


Now thats some good tone!

Just might change my mind about jcm 2000's.


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## offkey_ (Jan 29, 2007)

dwagar said:


> sorry, but yes it does.
> :smile:


I was afraid of that!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> All this Marshall talk reminded me of REAL problems, like this letter sent to Dear Abbey:
> 
> _Dear Abbey...
> 
> ...



LMAO


Good to have priorities!:food-smiley-004:


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## Rhythmeister (May 17, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> So ....
> 
> Has Marshall made a good amp in the past 30 years?
> 
> Or is "Marshall" just a tone that we seek in other manufacturer's gear?



Check out the 1987 vintage Marshall Silver Jubilee amps (the 2550 and others). Still used by Slash, John Frusciante (Chili Peppers), The Black Crowes, and lots of other great guitarists who are known tone freaks.

The Slash signature model Marshall that debuted in 1996 was a copy of his cherished 100w Silver Jubilee head.

Sadly, only a couple thousand of these Silver Jubilees were made. And the prices keep going up on ones that surface in the market.

Cheers,
Blair


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## Skoczylas (Mar 27, 2007)

If you want good tone, and you don't mind slighty dirty cleans. get a nice low watt amp.

Can't really recommend what marshall to get, because I haven't played many.


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