# worst grip ever...



## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

yeah, it's my claw. My 5-year old has been running around the house with a camera lately. kinda cool what she comes up with.
back to the grip - big-assed monkey thumb hanging over the top, pinky hidden behind the back.
geez, I think I just need to start over. I golf like I'm playing hockey, and play guitar like I'm trying to bunt.


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

alright, cutting myself a bit of slack, it occurs to me i was probably playing Alice in Chains' - Don't Follow.

you've got the cowboy D chord, and need to fret an F# and then a G on the low E with the thumb.
I still have no explanation on why the pinky is hiding.


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## Bobby (May 27, 2010)

i dont think its that bad,theres plenty of times where my grip is like that,particularly if im fretting the low E (or B,in my case) with my thumb.or sometimes if im making a wide bend,for leverage. i never have any of my fingers under the neck like that so no,not sure what your pinky is doing down there,lol. but it aint that bad.

and another good aspect is,you can advance your teams runners into scoring position that way 

Bobby


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Though I teach folks not to have their palm against the back of the neck, and not to tuck the pinky or any other finger under or behind the neck, there are more ways to skin a cat in the guitar world that if it suits your style, it's okay. *But*, be prepared to change when the needs dictate. We all do things outside the technique box, get inventive, careless, or inspired, but it's the sound that matters. 

Peace, Mooh.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

more importantly,


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> more importantly,


Ditto on the clippers.

Also, if you're doing the thumb over D major chord, at least try to get the 6th string at the second fret (F#) for the option on a 6 string chord dynamic to possibly match the dynamics of other chords you may be using. Muting at the first fret doesn't offer that option as efficiently.

Fwiw.

Peace, Mooh.


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

Mooh said:


> Ditto on the clippers.
> 
> Also, if you're doing the thumb over D major chord, at least try to get the 6th string at the second fret (F#) for the option on a 6 string chord dynamic to possibly match the dynamics of other chords you may be using. Muting at the first fret doesn't offer that option as efficiently.
> 
> ...


I'm not muting at the F, fwiw, the Dmaj is only fingerpicked with the thinnest 3 or 4 strings for that tune.
But yeah, i guess i should wait with my thumb at the 2nd fret if that's where I'll need it next. :food-smiley-004:

The pinky is the oddest thing - whenever I look down, it's hiding behind the fret board, but after a jam or practice
session, I can tell that it has been used fairly regularly. the callous is there, I just don't think about it. 
that's probably the one thing I need to work with the muscle memory. All hands on deck!

(rough crowd - my nails aren't _that _long!)


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

puckhead said:


> I'm not muting at the F, fwiw, the Dmaj is only fingerpicked with the thinnest 3 or 4 strings for that tune.
> But yeah, i guess i should wait with my thumb at the 2nd fret if that's where I'll need it next. :food-smiley-004:
> 
> The pinky is the oddest thing - whenever I look down, it's hiding behind the fret board, but after a jam or practice
> ...


Fair enough, context is everything.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

When you can play like this you can hold the neck any way you want. Until then, we should all keep our thumbs on the back of the neck where they belong.

[YOUTUBE]oqnU83wPmfc[/YOUTUBE]


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## holyman (Dec 22, 2009)

Mooh said:


> Though I teach folks not to have their palm against the back of the neck, and not to tuck the pinky or any other finger under or behind the neck, there are more ways to skin a cat in the guitar world that if it suits your style, it's okay. *But*, be prepared to change when the needs dictate. We all do things outside the technique box, get inventive, careless, or inspired, but it's the sound that matters.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


Why can't the palm be against the back of the neck? I ask because this is how I typically play and I am having problems with pain in my left hand lately...

I used to be a shredder and had excellent form which meant my thumb was always pressed against the middle of the neck. For the past year or so I have been working on bends and vibrato almost exclusively so I will usually hold my thumb over the top of the neck for leverage and have the palm of my hand against the back of the neck (my guitars have large necks btw). Like I said, I have been having left hand problems... I thought perhaps this is due to overplaying but perhaps it is the way I hold my hand.

How on earth do you play a blue solo with your thumb behind behind the neck, as opposed to the thumb position in the picture at the beginning of the thread? This pain in my hand is frustrating because it feels like the only way I can really make the guitar sing is to a technique which seems to be causing injury....

Any advice would be appreciated.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

holyman said:


> Why can't the palm be against the back of the neck? I ask because this is how I typically play and I am having problems with pain in my left hand lately...
> 
> I used to be a shredder and had excellent form which meant my thumb was always pressed against the middle of the neck. For the past year or so I have been working on bends and vibrato almost exclusively so I will usually hold my thumb over the top of the neck for leverage and have the palm of my hand against the back of the neck (my guitars have large necks btw). Like I said, I have been having left hand problems... I thought perhaps this is due to overplaying but perhaps it is the way I hold my hand.
> 
> ...


The extreme and constant bend to the wrist created by having the palm against the back of the neck can create health issues from stiffness, fatigue, carpel tunnel related pain, repetitive strain injury, but I'm not a health care professional, see a doctor. It also simply reduces mobility, dexterity, speed, and a varied technique.

The palm on neck posture may also create a more severe bend at the second knuckle (from the fingertips) rather than spreading the bend among all the knuckles.

Thumb/wrist/palm position has nothing specifically to do with blues soloing. All soloing is better with better technique.

Also, the thumb over technique does not mean the palm has to be touching the back of the neck.

Consider lessons from a seasoned pro regarding technique. You may not need many to steer you in the right direction.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Bobby (May 27, 2010)

i guess it depends what"palm on the back of the neck" means,in this instance.(im reffering to Holyman's post,and Mooh's answer here).

i mean,are we talking thumb over the neck,part of the palm from between your first finger and your thumb touching the neck here? because thats a position i find myself often in,for leverage when im bending or really want to lean into vibrato. ive never discouraged anyone from doing it that way when ive taught.

or is that part(between your first finger and thumb),even considered part of your palm? we do need a doctor here,lol.

myself in playing,and what i try to impart to others,is more of an adaptive approach.if im doing alot of bending and really trying to wring the notes,ill be in that position. but if i want to play a fast run,particularly starting on the bass strings,my grip will slip down into an almost classical "thumb right behind the neck" position. the rest of the time,im somewhere in between,lol.

i dont think one can play.....well i mean they could but.....i dont think its best for someone with a varied approach to the guitar,to play in only one position,imo. i mean i think its important to move into the position thats best. now if one is playing classical guitar,or only playing chords,or only playing blues,etc.....well one "type" of position might be best. but from the moment your slipping between different styles,i think you need to switch some. i know watching the great players ive learned from,it certainly looks that way.

but if we are talking about literally"palm against the back of the neck" like completely pressed against it with your hand wrapped around.....no wonder your getting pain. that would be a horrible strain ....not to mention i cant see what it would be effective for.

long story short,you should go see a teacher.....so i just rambled on for a page to say what Mooh summed up in a sentence,lol. it will be easier for that person to watch you and guide you in person.

my only advice would be to pick the right teacher......dont go see a classical guitarist if your bent(pardon the pun) on blues soloing,or a blues player if you want to play classical guitar.....they will contradict each other. i know thats obvious and you allready probably knew that,but im just being extreme to make a point. to me anyone who says rigidly"this is the position your hand should be in,all the time" well.....i dont teach or practice that,and i certainly dont agree with it.

jaysus that was long,sorry,lol.

Bobby


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Mooh said:


> The extreme and constant bend to the wrist created by having the palm against the back of the neck can create health issues from stiffness, fatigue, carpel tunnel related pain, repetitive strain injury, but I'm not a health care professional, see a doctor. It also simply reduces mobility, dexterity, speed, and a varied technique.
> 
> The palm on neck posture may also create a more severe bend at the second knuckle (from the fingertips) rather than spreading the bend among all the knuckles.
> 
> ...


What he said^^^

I watched out for this when I taught guitar.

I find if my palm is like that it is also much more difficult to change chords.

I am often glad I started with classical to learn good technique--and then learned when I can ignore it too.

But poor technique that makes it harder to play well, and can lead to injury and other problems makes no sense to me.

What I told many students was to learn the proper technique, and then if you ignore it, you're doing it because it works for you--but to be aware of the risks.

I had some students who were naturals at playing--they could play more complex things than I could, but what they lacked was a disciplined technique. When they learned that their playing improved even more.


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## holyman (Dec 22, 2009)

Thanks for the advice. I actually went to see a doctor the other day and got a referall to a physiotherapist that has experience dealing with this sort of thing. I haven't picked up a guitar in a week or two and my hand feels pretty much back to normal now. Now to make sure this doesn't happen again....


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

proper guitar grip technique is essential to avoiding injury and improving skill...


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