# Planer versus Router Sled....



## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Been debating either a 13" Dewalt or Rigid planer for a while. Been watching for some cheap used deals on Kijiji. They pop up, but gotta be quick because they sell super fast.

Right now, trying to figure what I need -vs- what I want -vs- what makes sense.

I'm planning to build a CNC this summer. Mid sized, with a bed around 24"x36". Big enough for guitars, necks, and other projects and small enough to fit in the space I have.

I've been after a 13" planer because around here are quite a few places selling live edge walnut, ash, cherry, etc... and I would like to make 1-piece bodies... but is 13" wide enough? I think some LP's are just over 13", not to mention Explorer/Destroyers, Flying V's, etc... even a Strat, I think 13" only gives me about 5/16" of wiggle room.

Would I be better off using a router sled for making body blanks? especially since I've seen some posts stating that a planer doesn't flatten/level, and I'd have to make a router sled for that anyways. 

13" planers seem to double the cost of an 11"-12" planer... if 13" isn't wide enough for most bodies, I'll save my money and get a smaller one since for stuff like 2x4's and 2-piece bodies, 11"-12" should be more than enough.

Looking for some advice/direction... limited budget/space and if for 1-piece bodies a 13" planer won't be useful, I'll start building a sled and look for a cheaper planer.

Shame you can't get a 13.5" planer. 15" would be perfect, but seems to jump up in price and size a lot, also 220v which I don't have an outlet for.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

A planer is for thickness only. Throw in a warped board you will get a thinner warped board back. 

If you want stuff flat you need this kind 










Or a hand planer or a router sled. Most people would still want a thickness planer after the router sled.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Sorry if I get my terms wrong... warped would refer to the board/wood length wise correct?

If the wood is cupped (width) the planer will level that out, correct?

Length wise I'm not overly concerned. 18-19" I'm not sure many would notice a warp...plus as mentioned, hand planers... I'd assume if any warp, it would be minor.

Main concern is if the 13" width won't be enough... because then for a single piece body, I'd have no choice but to thickness it with the sled anyways.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

For the (assumed) small number of these projects, you may be able to find a local cabinet shop or someone with a 16" jointer / planer to mill it for you for a small fee.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Here's the thing. Those DeWalt/Ryobi/Delta 13" planers should be called thickness planers. It does NOT make the wood flat! Warped any direction will still be warped unless you use a sled with shims. If you want flat wood you use the other style planer. When the wood is flat you run it through the thickness planer to get to size. If you can't afford the planer ( much more expensive than a thickness planer) you use a router sled then a thickness planer for size.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Here is a thickness planer with a sled and shims and a hot glue gun


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Ya, I think there is one 20min from here with a 20" planer for $10.... well, when I asked about it 2yrs ago it was.

As long as flat and squared, I guess with a CNC the thickness won't matter much. Adjust the code to match how thick the blank is, it'll route off the rest. 

I blame that one thread here with the CNC made SG's... I was happy repainting Squiers until I saw that. 

But no, not many projects a year, I don't think. Goal for now is to make guitars for me, and once better at it, maybe sell some bodies and necks online.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

knight_yyz said:


> Here's the thing. Those DeWalt/Ryobi/Delta 13" planers should be called thickness planers. It does NOT make the wood flat! Warped any direction will still be warped unless you use a sled with shims. If you want flat wood you use the other style planer. When the wood is flat you run it through the thickness planer to get to size. If you can't afford the planer ( much more expensive than a thickness planer) you use a router sled then a thickness planer for size.


This actually takes me back to a long time ago when I was asking about planers in general... because I totally understand how a planer would not make wood flat length wise, but width wise, it has to be able to make it flat, shims or not, as long as it's not rocking back/forth when being run through. Eventually the top of the curve will be planed down to the edges, then flip the wood and plane down the edges towards the middle.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

So, does anyone have any experience using a 13" planer for 1-piece bodies? Big enough? not quite big enough?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

That cupped piece will bend and spring back again. Takes a lot of force to hold that in the thickness planer. Otherwise the blades grab your workpiece and flings it out the back side.


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## Silvertone (Oct 13, 2018)

I have thickness planed lots of long live edge slabs. I've only had a couple that followed the twist. This was a 24" helical head thickness planer on slabs that were up to 23" wide and 6' long. I found cupped boards would not spring back and it would easily take the cup out. The head spins towards you, like a table saw blade. It will not fling it out the back. It could fling it towards you, but they have built in stops so that does not happen.

For body blanks get yourself a hand plane at least a #5 or even larger to flatten the bottom side, or use the sled. Then the thickness planer works well.



THRobinson said:


> So, does anyone have any experience using a 13" planer for 1-piece bodies? Big enough? not quite big enough?


 Depends on the guitar you are building. It's not big enough for me for most of my builds. You mention CNC. Just get a surfacing bit and do it on the machine. 

I have a 24"x36" CNC machine but I also have a large joint / planer combo as well as a thickness sander. They all have their uses but the CNC can be used to do all the jobs if necessary.

Cheers Peter.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

@Silvertone 

You'd definitely be the one to talk to... actually sent you a PM a while back but no response. It made me feel cheap, and tawdry.... 

Did you make your CNC or buy it? I was at OpenBuilds and they have some nice machines for sure, but price just kept going up the more I clicked/added. Seems that their kits don't include motors, controllers, etc... so a $2000 kit becomes $3500 quickly. Thinking I might be able to build one around $2000, similar to what Highline Guitars built and he seems to use quite often. Originally I just wanted a small CNC for making pickguards, and well, more I researched and such, the bigger the thing got. 

I debated the CNC for planing. Makes sense... also one less machine in the way. I have some garage space for the bigger stuff like table saw and eventually the planer... but it's not much space, not heated, etc... CNC will be in the cellar. 

I still need a planer, have other projects on the go, and mostly would be for cleaning up 2x4's and 4x4's.... but now I'll expand my search to include smaller models because if 13" is too small for single-piece bodies, and bigger than needed for 2-piece bodies, then I may as well save some money and get something smaller and more portable.

I do have a jointer... somewhere. My Dad passed away and I inherited a bunch of tools... but he was starting to hoard a bit near the end and it's been a long slow process finding the time to go through everything. Jointer I am certain is buried in there, been years since I've seen it but I think it's an old vintage Beaver 2800. Lots of routers for some reason. No thickness planers (so far).


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I have a 13" planer. I very rarely use it on guitar stuff anymore. It's a Delta 13" two-speed feed. It makes old fence boards look pretty, but that's about it's best move. With the exception of the Tele and the Strat, most guitar bodies won't fit in a 13" planer anyway. 

I have a 18" thickness sander that I use to true and flatten slabs and bodies. I find myself using it more & more all the time. Little slower, much better job. I find the sander works better for things like a cupped board. Start with cup edges on the feed belt , so the high spot of the board is in the center on sander. Flatten that side, then turn it over the cup (high edges) to the sander and finish it off. Planers don't feed worth a dam on cupped boards.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Lincoln said:


> I have a 13" planer. I very rarely use it on guitar stuff anymore. It's a Delta 13" two-speed feed. It makes old fence boards look pretty, but that's about it's best move. With the exception of the Tele and the Strat, most guitar bodies won't fit in a 13" planer anyway.
> 
> I have a 16" thickness sander that I use to true and flatten slabs and bodies. I find myself using it more & more all the time. Little slower, much better job. I find the sander works better for things like a cupped board. Start with cup edges on the feed belt , so the high spot of the board is in the center on sander. Flatten that side, then turn it over the cup (high edges) to the sander and finish it off. Planers don't feed worth a dam on cupped boards.


Just like in my little diagram, cup down, flatten then cup up.

I've noticed a lot of vids now with people using those sanders, though on Kijiji, I don't find them very often for sale and definitely not for cheap. I'd image the other upside to them is the seem more quiet, and don't shoot shaving out all over. Probably easier to make a collector for the sander than the planer.

I'll probably grab something smaller and cheaper then.... sounds like a planer will be mostly used for cleaning up 2x4's when I make benches and stands for well, all the other tools.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

This is the sander I got, new, for about $600. Excuse the dust on it, my housekeeper hasn't been around yet today to dust it.








Works great, it could use a little more power though. Someday I'll put a better/bigger motor in it. When you're working with a 14" or 15" wide guitar slab, you really have to watch the amount of cut you're taking or you can stall it out. Narrower things like neck blanks, you can give er'.

The big thing is that wide sandpaper drive belt. It moves anything across the sanding drum no matter how warped, cupped, or irregular it is. A planer, that drives the board with two little rollers, really struggles unless you're working with something that's already flat/true and all you want to do is make it thinner.

Sanders are much cleaner, no shavings, just fine dust. You for sure want a good dust collection system.

I used an old Kenmore built in vacuum canister mounted on the wall of the shop. I still use it, only now I also have a real 2 stage dust collector as well. The Kenmore is a little special in that it doesn't use a bag. They used cyclonic dust separation. Most built-in vacuum canisters don't.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Do those go through paper a lot? Any idea how many blanks you get before you need to replace the sand paper? I'll assume you need to clean it after every pass.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

THRobinson said:


> Do those go through paper a lot? Any idea how many blanks you get before you need to replace the sand paper? I'll assume you need to clean it after every pass.


I've only changed the sand paper twice in about 7 years. The first time was my own fault. I was using it to sand down little plastic spacers for drawer slides on cabinets. I got greedy/impatient, melted a bunch of them down, and the plastic stuck to the sanding drum. I could not get the plastic off. That happened right after I first got it.
The second time I changed the paper was recently, in the last month. I couldn't begin to count the number of uses I've gotten. Very many. When the paper wears out, gets dull, the wood starts to burn (you make black streaks in your pretty wood).

The sand paper on the drum doesn't seem to ever plug up. (except with melted plastic)


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Very interesting and educational thread. Thanks.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

Lincoln said:


> This is the sander I got, new, for about $600. Excuse the dust on it, my housekeeper hasn't been around yet today to dust it.
> View attachment 298676
> 
> Works great, it could use a little more power though. Someday I'll put a better/bigger motor in it. When you're working with a 14" or 15" wide guitar slab, you really have to watch the amount of cut you're taking or you can stall it out. Narrower things like neck blanks, you can give er'.
> ...


Good deal for 600$! Over a grand now. I have been looking for a thickness sander for a while, and only home builts come in that cheap. Funny, I run my central vac as dust collection as well. I put one of the cyclonic 5gal Dust Deputy pails in front of it. Put a car muffler on the outlet to keep the volume reasonable.

OP- I have one of those Dewalt 13inchers. Its pretty nice. Bought it factory refurbed for about 250$. The secret to the dewalt is use a sled. I have some 3/8 ply with that grippy rubber non slip placemat stuff on it (to hold the work piece). Works great. The blades are the weak spot however, a little dried glue squeeze out and they get nicked bad. Any you cant really sharpen them in the conventional sense. I had an old 16 inch Busy Bee Craftex with the 4 pillars design and a central height screw. I would stay away from them. The pillar bearings get dirty/slow and then the whole height screw assembly grenades because its off kilter. Newer ones may be better.

C


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Cardamonfrost said:


> Good deal for 600$! Over a grand now. I have been looking for a thickness sander for a while, and only home builts come in that cheap. Funny, I run my central vac as dust collection as well. I put one of the cyclonic 5gal Dust Deputy pails in front of it. Put a car muffler on the outlet to keep the volume reasonable.
> 
> C


Yeah, it was a great deal, I jumped all over it. It was a display model, never been used. Only thing was the dust port adapter was missing. That was an easy fix.

I'm with you on the the Dust Deputy. I've got two Dust Deputy's. A 2" I use on the kenmore vacuum, and a 4" I use on my other system. They work great.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

My dust deputy is on a 20 gallon fiber drum. My shop vac is too strong for a 5 gallon bucket


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Lincoln said:


> most guitar bodies won't fit in a 13" planer anyway


Make Billy Bo's and Diddley's


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## Silvertone (Oct 13, 2018)

THRobinson said:


> @Silvertone
> 
> You'd definitely be the one to talk to... actually sent you a PM a while back but no response. It made me feel cheap, and tawdry....
> 
> ...



I do not think I ever saw that but I just checked now and it's there. Sorry about that. I bought my CNC as a turn key unit. I was looking at a 12" jointer planer combo unit and then CWI (Canadian Woodworker) came out with a 16" jointer/ planer combo. It ain't cheap but man is it great. I like building laminated necks and this machine makes short work of the laminates. I also have a thickness sander which is very handy but not for thicknessing more taking a little bit off or thicknessing very thin material.

Cheers Peter.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

I like the laminate necks... and I like laminate bodies as well. I do plan on making them since I'll probably have lots of wood scraps from the live edge stuff.

I am more interested in the single piece bodies though, and sounds like a router sled and the CNC are the way to go for now... no point limiting my search to only 13" planers if a 13" won't handle it anyways. Still a handy tool, but less a priority now. Every bit I save on a planer, is money for the CNC which I suspect will have many more uses. 

Just wish I had the space for a 4'x8' CNC... building an arcade cabinet right now, and having a CNC cut it all out would be really nice.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

laristotle said:


> Make Billy Bo's and Diddley's
> 
> View attachment 298682


Hard to believe, but the Billy-Bo measures 12-1/2" across at it's widest point!









@THRobinson Good choice with the router sled. I think it will be more useful to you in guitar building than a 13" planer will.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

I bought a hand held corded Bosch power planer last week because I'm replacing some doors in the house. About $150 with taxes. Trimming doors with these is amazing. 
Once I used it I realized that this planer followed up with a good long sanding block could probably true up a body blank. It wouldn't be as fast a 13" planer, but it would work.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

I have one of those, somewhere in the heap... Craftsman from the '80s if I recall. Also, used it for doors. 

Shame you can't buy metal extenders for those. Mine's only a foot long, but if I could make it two feet long, I'd think it would do a better job at flattening larger surfaces like a guitar face. 

I'll probably grab a hand planer that's long. I'd like to get a drum sander as mentioned earlier, but $600 I think was a fluke of a deal. Used ones seem to be double that.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

THRobinson said:


> I have one of those, somewhere in the heap... Craftsman from the '80s if I recall. Also, used it for doors.
> 
> Shame you can't buy metal extenders for those. Mine's only a foot long, but if I could make it two feet long, I'd think it would do a better job at flattening larger surfaces like a guitar face.
> 
> I'll probably grab a hand planer that's long. I'd like to get a drum sander as mentioned earlier, but $600 I think was a fluke of a deal. Used ones seem to be double that.



I asked my wife how much we paid for the thickness sander, she thinks about $300. I looked, but couldn't find the paper work. It was a screaming deal anyway, one of those "start the car" moments.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

THRobinson said:


> I have one of those, somewhere in the heap... Craftsman from the '80s if I recall. Also, used it for doors.
> 
> Shame you can't buy metal extenders for those. Mine's only a foot long, but if I could make it two feet long, I'd think it would do a better job at flattening larger surfaces like a guitar face.
> 
> I'll probably grab a hand planer that's long. I'd like to get a drum sander as mentioned earlier, but $600 I think was a fluke of a deal. Used ones seem to be double that.


Yes, they're too short. An extension would be great but probably finicky. I think there used to be older ones that were longer, I recall something about surf board builders buying those up.
I have a Stanley #7 hand plane that I can follow up with, and will for these doors because I can see the waviness in the edges.

But for a body blank, getting a rough 2" board to 1.75" I think I'd want a power tool for at least part of it.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Well, ended up getting a planer... Stopped looking and of course one popped up.

Someone had a Craftsman 15" planer, 3hp and 120v (not 220v) for $275. Looked but the belt broke... Guy ended up saying $75 and it's yours.

For $75, it seemed worth the risk. Parts are no longer available but I found a USA seller on eBay selling the drive belt with dust collector belt, for about $35cad after ship/exchange etc.

Now, I wait....

I have other needs for a planer though, rebuilding the workshop right now with my time off. A smaller one would have worked, but saw 15" 120v 15amp, and figured that would be enough for body blanks and no special electrical needed.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

right on!


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

if possible , put in a dedicated 120v 20 amp circuit #12 wire for the unit


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Gotta check. In the cellar where the workshop is, I have overall 19 feet of workbench, with 1 single power outlet. I was going to run new wire and have 5 outlets and an extra away from the bench for the CNC I plan to build. 

That would be great for the planer, except, they're loud and throw a lot of dust, so, out to the garage it goes. 

Before my Dad passed he put in a panel in there just for the garage, with 3 breakers... 1 for the lights, 1 for the power outlets, and 1 extra. I'm pretty sure he probably put a 20A in the outlet one already. 

Originally I was going to fix it up, but, detached from the house, no heat, needs a LOT of repairs and a bunch of other problems. Use to be a chicken house back in the 1890's so, not an idea work space, especially in winter.  Once cleared out this summer, I plan to have a section for the table saw and planer, maybe a paint spray area for summer, and that's in there.

Unless... for you planer users... is it something you find you use very often? or you might use a bunch in one day and not tough it for weeks?


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## nnieman (Jun 19, 2013)

THRobinson said:


> Gotta check. In the cellar where the workshop is, I have overall 19 feet of workbench, with 1 single power outlet. I was going to run new wire and have 5 outlets and an extra away from the bench for the CNC I plan to build.
> 
> That would be great for the planer, except, they're loud and throw a lot of dust, so, out to the garage it goes.
> 
> ...


Its pretty handy to have available (not packed away under a workbench) but I wouldn't say that I use mine every day.
I run a custom woodworking business...I will use it for like an entire day processing rough lumber then not again for a week.

Dust collection for it is pretty nice, you dont need to go die hard....planers put out chips, not really fine dust.
You will definitely need something better for a cnc.

Nathan


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

why better for a CNC?

and how do we know this one isn't good?


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

THRobinson said:


> That would be great for the planer, except, they're loud and throw a lot of dust, so, out to the garage it goes.


They do throw a ton of dust and shavings, we installed a dust collection system overhead and I have a cyclone separator as well for big projects


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

MarkM said:


> View attachment 306830


Cool pic! I can almost smell the wood.


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