# Just another little piece of truth...



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

... adding to the ever increasing mountain of evidence that human race can be incredibly stupid.

Sale of controversial 'miracle' tonic results in dozens of charges


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

It's best to stick with credible people, like Jenny McCarthy.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Or Gwineth Paltrow (I got my jade egg inserted after my coffee enema; how bout you?)


.. for those of you out of the loop: Coffee enema from Gwyneth Paltrow’s Goop website called ‘absurd, potentially dangerous’ | Toronto Star


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)




----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I had a client who was big into this...

I'm pretty open minded, and am more curious about it. until I see the science from both sides discussed by some impartial scientist, I wouldn't dismiss it. I mean, municipalities treat water with chlorine (accu-tab and similar). When you're tree planting, you use chlorine tablets to purify the water, etc. etc. 

I can smell a lot of bleach in my town water as well.


----------



## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i used to know this woman who though ear-candling was the cure-all for every affliction known to mankind. no amount of trying could convince her otherwise.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Holy water is still big as a cure all in TO.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

adcandour said:


> I had a client who was big into this...
> 
> I'm pretty open minded, and am more curious about it. until I see the science from both sides discussed by some impartial scientist, I wouldn't dismiss it. I mean, municipalities treat water with chlorine (accu-tab and similar). When you're tree planting, you use chlorine tablets to purify the water, etc. etc.
> 
> I can smell a lot of bleach in my town water as well.


When it comes to chemistry, suffixes matter. "-ite" and "-ine"are not the same thing.
As for chlorine in the water, when it comes to the choice between bacteria and the minimal damage that highly diluted chlorine can do, the pro/con risk/benefit balance works in favour of chlorine. Same way that anti-biotics kill good gut flora but also kill things that are killing you faster, so the balance works in favour of using an anti-biotic.

But you know, I have my doubts about those who come from shithole galaxies like Andromeda. There are far better galaxies to come from.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Lotsa bullshit out there. Celebrities, media, laymen, doctors, scientists. From dingbat charlatan to money-grabbing professional, they could cause us (in North America especially) to throw the baby out with the bath water. 

My son was just diagnosed this week with dermatomyositis. His immune system is attacking his skin and muscles. Nobody in the family, including his nurse sister, wants to see him use the same drugs that killed my sister by the time she was fifty. This is medical science's default and only setting for him.

He is trying other things first. He is lucky at least to have the option of time to experiment. Its not a life-threatening ailment. There should be no objections to a case-specific diet and regimented rest? Or is it better to just blindly obey Almighty Pharmaceutical? Lol. 

Today is Day One.

If I had listened to my doctor earlier this year, Lyme disease woulda ruined my life. No test result means "no Lyme" I was told. With nine outa ten symptoms and the remains of a red-legged tick in hand, I would suggest they come up with a better test. If you want to talk about how stupid people can be. However, I am extremely grateful for the antibiotics I forced him to give me. What a relief!

So it's a mixed bag. Some good, some bad. But yeah, definitely surprising the things people (you and me!) believe sometimes.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I saw that in the news today. It is amazing and sad, what some people will believe and how others take advantage of desperate or naive people.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

adcandour said:


> I can smell a lot of bleach in my town water as well.


An inexpensive charcoal filter (Brita) will remove the smell and taste. Good enough for tea, coffee, cooking. I filter twice for drinking water. It won't hurt you.

Also, when I was a kid my brother had an aquarium. Our town water came straight outa the river. If it was raining, the water was dirty. Thats how primitive it was. Horribly chlorinated. If he dumped the aquarium fish into the tap water too soon some would die. He learned to let the chlorine "air out " at least overnight. Then they were all fine.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

adcandour said:


> I can smell a lot of bleach in my town water as well.


It is not the best thing for your thyroid either but municipalities continue to use it. We have good old well water where we live now and get it tested now and again to make sure it is fine. When you go back to Montreal or Ontario to visit, the smell really hits us as we are not used to it any longer. I strongly urge you to get a filter to remove it or let your drinking water stand for a day or two as that will allow the chlorine to dissipate from the water.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

KapnKrunch said:


> An inexpensive charcoal filter (Brita) will remove the smell and taste. Good enough for tea, coffee, cooking. I filter twice for drinking water. It won't hurt you.
> 
> Also, when I was a kid my brother had an aquarium. Our town water came straight outa the river. If it was raining, the water was dirty. Thats how primitive it was. Horribly chlorinated. If he dumped the aquarium fish into the tap water too soon some would die. He learned to let the chlorine "air out " at least overnight. Then they were all fine.


I have an RO system that deals with all the crap, as well as some spaceship unit down in the basement that also came with the house. My drinking water is fine. I smell it in the bathroom mostly.



Steadfastly said:


> It is not the best thing for your thyroid either but municipalities continue to use it. We have good old well water where we live now and get it tested now and again to make sure it is fine. When you go back to Montreal or Ontario to visit, the smell really hits us as we are not used to it any longer. I strongly urge you to get a filter to remove it or let your drinking water stand for a day or two as that will allow the chlorine to dissipate from the water.


I was on a well in my last house. I came to the conclusion that most water is shit without something being done to it. Unless it's Dasani - I'd rather do a shot of e-coli ridden puddle water.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

mhammer said:


> When it comes to chemistry, suffixes matter. "-ite" and "-ine"are not the same thing.
> As for chlorine in the water, when it comes to the choice between bacteria and the minimal damage that highly diluted chlorine can do, the pro/con risk/benefit balance works in favour of chlorine. Same way that anti-biotics kill good gut flora but also kill things that are killing you faster, so the balance works in favour of using an anti-biotic.
> 
> But you know, I have my doubts about those who come from shithole galaxies like Andromeda. There are far better galaxies to come from.


Isn't chlorine just a 7% or 9% solution of sodium hypochlorite? I think 2% is bleach, etc, etc. 

I realize that ites and ates and ines are different, I just need to actually see studies or someone's unbiased conclusion after assessing both sides. 

In the book I wrote called, "_Everyone's a Whacko: The People are Shitty Chronicles_", I state that I'll give everyone the time of day - even Andromedons.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Sorry I just have to put my girly 2 cents worth in.

Waist trainers/corsets! The worst thing you can do for your body! Pure torture and dangerous.

They can prohibit oxygen and blood flow to vital organs.

.....and who is endorsing these? A lot of celebrities, that’s who. Kim Kardashian is endorsing these barbaric torture devices. Unfortunately she is a role model for many woman of all ages.


----------



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

KapnKrunch said:


> My son was just diagnosed this week with dermatomyositis. His immune system is attacking his skin and muscles. Nobody in the family, including his nurse sister, wants to see him use the same drugs that killed my sister by the time she was fifty. This is medical science's default and only setting for him.
> 
> He is trying other things first. He is lucky at least to have the option of time to experiment. Its not a life-threatening ailment. There should be no objections to a case-specific diet and regimented rest? Or is it better to just blindly obey Almighty Pharmaceutical? Lol.
> 
> ...


So sorry to hear about your son. You must be devastated.


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

KapnKrunch said:


> Lotsa bullshit out there. Celebrities, media, laymen, doctors, scientists. From dingbat charlatan to money-grabbing professional, they could cause us (in North America especially) to throw the baby out with the bath water.
> 
> My son was just diagnosed this week with dermatomyositis. His immune system is attacking his skin and muscles. Nobody in the family, including his nurse sister, wants to see him use the same drugs that killed my sister by the time she was fifty. This is medical science's default and only setting for him.
> 
> ...


Not to derail but when Shania first lost her voice, it was reported to be a psychological condition caused by the breakdown of her marriage to Mutt. In a recent interview, she said it was caused by Lyme disease. I hope things work out well for your son.


----------



## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> It is amazing and sad, what some people will believe and how others take advantage of desperate or naive people.


You said it. I always encourage my kids to employ critical thinking. My daughter was all about some miracle supplement a couple of months ago. She had seen some sort of video on Instagram and thought this was the miracle cure she needed to give her more energy and be healthy. I told her to do some google searching on this and look at opposing opinions before she jumped in. She's a smart kid and ended up realizing it was mostly hype without any science behind it.


----------



## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Wardo said:


> Holy water is still big as a cure all in TO.


----------



## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

I work in an office full of them. Kinda sad seeing as we're all people of science of various disciplines. Have you heard about Apple Cider Vinegar? It's saving lives man!​


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Unless there is *verifiable* data behind the testing, walk away.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

I know a woman who has been removing tumors from her face with cider vinegar for a couple years now. 

IMPORTANT: This is a certain kind of melanoma that is fairly benign. Don't read too much into what I am saying! Other cancers are way too aggressive for this. 

However, if she did it the doctors' way, her face would be a mess of scars now. Congratulations to her for her solid research and her resolve to find a better way.

In spite of what some moron in the office said, and I know exactly how you feel (lol), as I said before: don't throw the baby out with the bath.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

jdto said:


> You said it. I always encourage my kids to employ critical thinking. My daughter was all about some miracle supplement a couple of months ago. She had seen some sort of video on Instagram and thought this was the miracle cure she needed to give her more energy and be healthy. I told her to do some google searching on this and look at opposing opinions before she jumped in. She's a smart kid and ended up realizing it was mostly hype without any science behind it.


You should have advised me before I spent $30 on Cold FX. I bought first, then researched. 

Bottom line: "With Cold FX your cold will be gone in seven days. Without Cold FX your cold will be gone in a week."


----------



## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

KapnKrunch said:


> I know a woman who has been removing tumors from her face with cider vinegar for a couple years now.
> 
> IMPORTANT: This is a certain kind of melanoma that is fairly benign. Don't read too much into what I am saying! Other cancers are way too aggressive for this.
> 
> ...


Interesting. These people are drinking it. And taking mega doses of Vitamin C. Plus whatever else comes down the bullshit naturopathic pipeline. Whatever, just please, inoculate your damn kids.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

@jdto I'm loving the new signature, ....the irony, ohh the irony


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Robert1950 said:


> ... adding to the ever increasing mountain of evidence that human race can be incredibly stupid.
> 
> Sale of controversial 'miracle' tonic results in dozens of charges



What was the story? The link is dead.


----------



## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

@vadsy Truer words...


colchar said:


> What was the story? The link is dead.


It works fine for me, maybe try again. Basically, someone selling some strange snake oil remedy got busted and a cult whose leader comes from another galaxy...


----------



## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

vadsy said:


> @jdto I'm loving the new signature, ....the irony, ohh the irony


Comes from mysterious places does inspiration.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

jdto said:


> @vadsy Truer words...
> 
> It works fine for me, maybe try again. Basically, someone selling some strange snake oil remedy got busted and a cult whose leader comes from another galaxy...



I see the story for a second, then the page loads up with a 404 error. This also happens when I google the topic and go to the CBC site through Google.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

LanceT said:


> Comes from mysterious places does inspiration.


I feel a song and some random praise for Kim Kardashian coming on...


----------



## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

colchar said:


> I see the story for a second, then the page loads up with a 404 error. This also happens when I google the topic and go to the CBC site through Google.


That's weird. Something to do with CBC.ca's new format, perhaps?

Here's the article:



> A B.C. man and an Alberta woman face dozens of Food and Drug Act charges related to the promotion of a so-called miracle tonic touted as capable of curing everything from AIDS to autism.
> 
> The charges against Stanley and Sara Nowak follow years of Health Canada warnings about the sale of sodium chlorite, a bleach that a global community of believers is convinced can eliminate pathogens and poisons from the body when diluted with water.
> 
> ...


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

jdto said:


> That's weird. Something to do with CBC.ca's new format, perhaps?
> 
> Here's the article:



Thanks.

Unfortunately, there will be people who will see that article and think it is a conspiracy between the government and big pharma to prevent people from using this miracle cure and they will thus continue to use it.


----------



## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

colchar said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Unfortunately, there will be people who will see that article and think it is a conspiracy between the government and big pharma to prevent people from using this miracle cure and they will thus continue to use it.


Anyone that dumb deserves to drink that stuff...


----------



## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

colchar said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Unfortunately, there will be people who will see that article and think it is a conspiracy between the government and big pharma to prevent people from using this miracle cure and they will thus continue to use it.


My wife works in a certain Ministry that deals with health issues...they get people calling all the time (often terminally ill) wanting the gov to pay for whatever untested "but showing remarkable promise" snake oil making the rounds of the internet at that moment. Give your head a shake people. Drinking your urine does not cure lung cancer, even if you do travel to Germany for the treatment.


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)




----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

BSTheTech said:


> My wife works in a certain Ministry that deals with health issues...they get people calling all the time (often terminally ill) wanting the gov to pay for whatever untested "but showing remarkable promise" snake oil making the rounds of the internet at that moment. Give your head a shake people. Drinking your urine does not sure lung cancer, even if you do travel to Germany for the treatment.


I don't blame the government for turning down all the snake oil that the scum are trying to sell to the desperate but I won't go as far as to mock those grasping frantically for hope and a chance to survive.


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I don't blame the government for turning down all the snake oil that the scum are trying to sell to the desperate but I won't go as far as to mock those grasping frantically for hope and a chance to survive.


It's probably safe to say that we've all known people who were told modern medicine had nothing left to offer to them who started grasping at anything.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

butterknucket said:


> It's probably safe to say that we've all known people who were told modern medicine had nothing left to offer to them who started grasping at anything.


Yup, we have.

In fact, someone donated enough to buy a couple of good guitars to help a friend get his wife to Germany after complete failure by our system. Funny, she seems better now. Probably my imagination...


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

KapnKrunch said:


> You should have advised me before I spent $30 on Cold FX. I bought first, then researched.
> 
> Bottom line: "With Cold FX your cold will be gone in seven days. Without Cold FX your cold will be gone in a week."


 

Don Cherry used to push this because a lot of the hockey players took this. Someone made millions on this stuff. Costo was selling it like hotcakes.


----------



## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

adcandour said:


> . I came to the conclusion that most water is shit without something being done to it. Unless it's Dasani - I'd rather do a shot of e-coli ridden puddle water.


i've seen tons of articles saying that bottled water is no different than what most people get from the sink.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I’m waitin to hear what The Beaverton has to say about all this before I go making any kind of decisions one way or another.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

cheezyridr said:


> i've seen tons of articles saying that bottled water is no different than what most people get from the sink.


yes and no, truly depends on the region. some places draw from better sources and some places have better plants recycling wastewater to be put back into the system


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

cheezyridr said:


> i've seen tons of articles saying that bottled water is no different than what most people get from the sink.


Bottled water is definitely better than what comes out of my taps. Brantford water is the worst. I've drank water in other towns that weren't too bad.


----------



## dmc69 (Jan 20, 2011)

KW area water was bad when I lived there. It was always so scummy and left behind a lot of mineral deposits. Back here in the GTA, it's pretty good. I'd much rather drink my tap water than go for bottled American purified water. That stuff is NASTY, but their tap water is even worse. Our tap water situation here is pretty good.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

There was a small bottling plant in the village of Kakabeka Falls. Compressed air was run between two electrodes where 30,000 volts bonded a third oxygen atom to oxygen gas molecules (02) creating ozone gas molecules (03). Ozone is the most corrosive substance known. Kills everything. The ozone bubbles *up* through the water as it comes *down* a stainless steel pipe. Everything was stainless with teflon fittings. The ozone is highly unstable and reverts back to plain oxygen in the bottles after a couple of hours. All the nutritious minerals and yummy dead organisms are still in the water. I don't know how most homes process their water, but we can't afford this method in my house. 

This information is about three decades old, so my memory may be off. But I am sure our resident experts will correct me.

One more thing, a guy in the water business recommended that I avoid the local operation and stick to water from a huge beverage corporation: 

"They have more lose." (If the water is bad)


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

KapnKrunch said:


> There was a small bottling plant in the village of Kakabeka Falls. Compressed air was run between two electrodes where 30,000 volts bonded a third oxygen atom to oxygen gas molecules (02) creating ozone gas molecules (03). *Ozone is the most corrosive substance known. Kills everything*. The ozone bubbles *up* through the water as it comes *down* a stainless steel pipe. Everything was stainless with teflon fittings. The ozone is highly unstable and reverts back to plain oxygen in the bottles after a couple of hours. All the nutritious minerals and yummy dead organisms are still in the water. I don't know how most homes process their water, but we can't afford this method in my house.
> 
> This information is about three decades old, so my memory may be off. But I am sure our resident experts will correct me.
> 
> ...


I'd prefer ozone in water vs chlorine and fluoride.
I'd also prefer spring water over recycled sewer water pumped through pipe decades old.
That said, I'm cheap. So I usually drink tap water, and reserve bottled water for when I need the convenience ie when I'm out and about.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

When my kid was teething, my wife swore by a homeopathic product called Camilia.
Everything I read about homeopathy sounds like BS to me. But it did seem to work.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Diablo said:


> I'd prefer ozone in water vs chlorine and fluoride.


The ozone is gone in a couple of hours. Back to just plain oxygen. It can't last. 

Thats why it must be constantly replenished in the upper atmosphere by solar radiation that would otherwise kill us. Remember the "hole in the ozone" bullshit that you never hear about any more? Who started that nonsense with the threat from spray cans, etc.? Dingbat celebrities? Foolish web surfers? Oh yeah -- *scientists*!

Funny the things that people believe, eh?


----------



## Guest (Jan 13, 2018)

Hole in ozone layer has shrunk thanks to worldwide ban of CFCs, Nasa confirms


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

laristotle said:


> Hole in ozone layer has shrunk thanks to worldwide ban of CFCs, Nasa confirms


Hey thanks. Very interesting little article, and convincing too! Saved by science? We will see... 

I could be wrong, but it would be the first time. (Lol)


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

cheezyridr said:


> i've seen tons of articles saying that bottled water is no different than what most people get from the sink.



It isn't any different. Many people buy it thinking it is, but others (like me) buy it for the convenience of the bottles.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

dmc69 said:


> KW area water was bad when I lived there. It was always so scummy and left behind a lot of mineral deposits. Back here in the GTA, it's pretty good.



I lived in Waterloo for a decade (with a year of that down in Cambridge), and you and I live minutes from each other now so we were drinking the same water in KW, and are drinking the same water now. I honestly never noticed a difference.


----------



## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

colchar said:


> It isn't any different. Many people buy it thinking it is, but others (like me) buy it for the convenience of the bottles.


"Evian" makes a nice re-usable bottle that I fill from the tap daily.


----------



## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

adcandour said:


> Isn't chlorine just a 7% or 9% solution of sodium hypochlorite? I think 2% is bleach, etc, etc.
> 
> I realize that ites and ates and ines are different, I just need to actually see studies or someone's unbiased conclusion after assessing both sides.
> 
> In the book I wrote called, "_Everyone's a Whacko: The People are Shitty Chronicles_", I state that I'll give everyone the time of day - even Andromedons.


I think I read that book.
Actually, salt water (totally saturated salt water) is given a jolt of high current/hi voltage electricity which causes it to split. Chlorine comes off as a gas and is collected. The "waste" streams are caustic soda and hydrochloric acid. Most chlorine production has been moved to poor asian countries because it's a very dirty process in terms of nasty waste formed like dioxin and other things they don't even have names for. I wouldn't be willingly ingesting that stuff.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I'm trying to actually do some research on this chemical, and I'm falling short on finding any actual LEGIT studies that show it as being problematic. 

I keep finding this on occasion: The Sodium chlorite is a strong oxidant and can therefore be expected to cause clinical symptoms similar to the well known sodium chlorate. They state it likely behaves similarly to s. chorate (which is a problem), but they don't have any data to back it up. And, as mhammer noted "ates and ites" can be very different. 

I checked out the MSDS, so I could compare LD50s between other things we may consume like salt, caffeine, booze etc, but then realized it may be more informative to compare ED50s, so I'm trying to check that out. The LD50s weren't that concerning (for example an LD50 of 200mg/kg of Aspirin versus the LD50 of 168mg/kg for this MMS)

Now, I'm certainly not behind this product, and would never take it myself (without serious study)...but what _I am _behind is asking you WTF are you guys talking about? Site some studies; otherwise, you're all just wasting everybody else's time with your fake news and huffin' and puffin' like a bunch of transgenders.


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

laristotle said:


> Hole in ozone layer has shrunk thanks to worldwide ban of CFCs, Nasa confirms


Some of the most dangerous CFC's take 50 years to break down. We stopped using CFC's in Canada and the USA in the 90's when the largest quantity was being manufactured and leaked. Mexico, Asia and a host of other countries were using them for years beyond that. What was destroying the ozone ware the CFC's that had been leaked well before the 90's when a lot less were being produced and leaked. Since they have really only stopped using them worldwide about 20 years ago with many machines still out there that have them (i.e. all the old a/c machines and older cars) we are likely in the time period when they are causing the most damage. 

Personally, I took that news article with a grain of salt. Another 15-20 years will tell us if the story is true or not.


----------



## Guest (Jan 14, 2018)

Hold your breath in the meantime then.


----------

