# Lawsuit guitar article



## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

Interesting read defining lawsuit guitars.

http://www.jazzguitar.be/lawsuit_guitars.html


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Good article.
I've seen it before, but it's helpful

My Les Paul copy has the headstock shape, but wouldn't be confused for the real thing, and even with increased interest in MIJ 70's guitars, and lawsuit guitars, it's still not worth much if I sell it.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

I have a '76 Ibanez Les Paul but it has the 'Guild' style headstock and I have a Bradley Les Paul (probably 1970-something) that has the Gibson style headstock. I like reading stuff about that era.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

from what i read...the lawsuit era ended in 1978 when ibanez dropped copying american guitars to produce their own designs...

the trouble is...that a bunch of ads on kijiji etc throw the word "lawsuit" around as if it makes their guitar more valuable/rare/taboo/whatever...and inflate their selling price...

here's a direct quote...

"The lawsuit was brought by the "Norlin Corporation", the parent company of Gibson guitars against Elger/Hoshino U.S.A. in 1977, and was based on an Ibanez headstock design that had been discontinued by 1976. Hoshino settled out of court, and by 1978 had begun making Ibanez guitars from their own designs"

found here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibanez

any "lawsuit" guitar sold after 1978 is complete "caca del toro"

it's interesting to note that the fender strat pictured on stevie ray vaughan's "texas flood" album is actually a "tokai springy sound"...


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

not sure how accurate that all is, don`t think the US big two shut any Japanese factories down...they may have stopped exports to the States but shut them down?...no, never heard of that happening...they simply would not have had the power to affect guitar production in Japan...exports are a different matter but domestics...not that I`ve heard, actually there are still lots of MIJs made today that feature precise headstocks of both Gibson and Fender for the domestic market...in fact they never stopped building them. They may have threatened to shut them down but I bet that was met with a great deal of indifference here in Japan and thay probably had a good chuckle at them. I thoght Ibanez was the only Japanese maker threatened with a lawsuit and once they changed the headstock on exports it was dropped...least thats what I`ve read...no idea how true that is, but the lawsuit thing seems to have had zero effect on MIJ builders since they continued to build them and still do. I own models by several Japanese companies from the `70s to this decade with exact headstock shapes, the lawsuit thing continues to show up all around the web and sellers seem to think it makes a difference in their sales pitch. When Seymour Duncan changed the headstocks on his ESP made line from Fender to something of his own design in the mid `00s, evidently he stopped selling his guitars and they no longer appear in catalogs, last I saw them with the altered headstock was 2006...it was a kind of cross between a tele and a strat and was butt ugly in my opinion...glad I got mine before the change. There are countless MIJs made today with F/USA and Gibson headstocks...maybe there was an expiration date on the copyright...but then again, what ever the threat was, it doesn`t seem to have had much effect.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

read this ad for a 2003 lawsuit guitar...???...huh...???...

http://saskatoon.kijiji.ca/c-buy-an...1of-25-assembled-in-Canada-W0QQAdIdZ170263017

in case the ad disappears...it says...

TOKAI STRAT,True Lawsuit Guitar, 1of 25 assembled in Canada

This is a real collectors guitar. This guitar is number 24 of 25 Tokai guitars that were assembled in Toronto in late 2003 and distributed in 2005. When the Canadian distributor of Tokai guitars came to realize that they were going to be winding down the North American distribution of Tokai, they took the initiative of assembling 25 guitars made up of parts from the USA (electronics) and the neck and bodies were products of Japan. They employed an ex Tokai luthier from Japan to do the setups (hand done) and as a result produced a wonderfull piece and is truly a pleasure to play, by Tokai standards one of the best. This one was built to the specifications that Stevie Ray Vaughan was to endorse in an agreement with Tokai. The deal never happened because of his death in 1990. Excellent condition Asking $1000.00 or open to an offer.


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

jimihendrix said:


> read this ad for a 2003 lawsuit guitar...???...huh...???...
> 
> http://saskatoon.kijiji.ca/c-buy-an...1of-25-assembled-in-Canada-W0QQAdIdZ170263017
> 
> ...



isn't that the very definition of the 'fakai's that caused the distributor to lose his licensing rights?


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

puckhead said:


> isn't that the very definition of the 'fakai's that caused the distributor to lose his licensing rights?


The story on the "fakais" goes that the Cdn distributor wanted to change the specs on Korean made Tokais. For unknown reasons, Tokai Japan didn't give permission fast enough so he went ahead and got the guitars built anyway at a different factory. From 2004-2005, we got stuck with better quality, better playing Korean "fakes" than the rest of the world got with their real Korean Tokais. If I remember correctly, the whole controversy started because players elsewhere were wondering why our Korean Tokais were better than theirs so a few went investigating. Attitudes over at tokairegistry made a quick change from awe and jealousy to pity and disgust.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

bobb said:


> The story on the "fakais" goes that the Cdn distributor wanted to change the specs on Korean made Tokais. For unknown reasons, Tokai Japan didn't give permission fast enough so he went ahead and got the guitars built anyway at a different factory. From 2004-2005, we got stuck with better quality, better playing Korean "fakes" than the rest of the world got with their real Korean Tokais. If I remember correctly, the whole controversy started because players elsewhere were wondering why our Korean Tokais were better than theirs so a few went investigating. Attitudes over at tokairegistry made a quick change from awe and jealousy to pity and disgust.


I have one of those Fakais - though I thought I was buying a 'real' Tokai at the time. I have a Seymour Duncan Jazz in the neck and a Lollar Low Wind Imperial custom in the bridge. The thing seems like a $1000 guitar now though it isn't even close. 










...and I had to read it twice but when I finally got it, I laughed my azz off at this:


jimihendrix said:


> any "lawsuit" guitar sold after 1978 is complete "caca del toro"


Thanks for that jimi.


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