# 12 String belly bulge -Weyman 12 strings



## Finger Slicer (Feb 3, 2021)

Hello, my name's Nicola I'm a guitarist and "luthiery" enthusiast, I've bought recently a Vintage VE8000PB-12 online for the price of € 200. I was not much concerned about the condition of the guitar (that looked pretty good from pictures) and decided to take the risk. Unluckily the guitar came with a severe belly bulge that makes it really hard to play it up the 5th fret.
I know the guitar is the copy of a Weymann 12 string parlor owned by Paul Brett, but the original is coming with a tail piece. Is it possible that the decision to move the tension from the tailblock (Weymann) to the pin bridge (Vintage) caused the belly bulge ?
Anyways my question is: would it be a good idea to modify the existing bridge and add a brand new tailpiece in order to recreate the original set up of the Weymann? (6 strings fixed to the bridge e 6 going to the tail piece).
Of course reducing the bulge and regluing the bridge would be the first move.
Do you believe the problem will come up again ?
Should I give up and just add a bridge doctor ? I fear this could mute the wonderful sound this guitar has...
Thanks in advance for your comments and Sorry for my English
Nicola


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## Guitarhack (Jan 29, 2015)

Nicola,

Sorry to hear of your issues with the *VE8000PB-12*. I haden't seen one before. 12 strings have a lot of string tension so your situation is understandable. Have you had a look inside the guitar to see if something is broken? My favorite tool is a cheap mirror on a stick with an LED light. 

If it were me I would have a look inside and evaluate before making any drastic changes.

_*The bridge is another unusual aspect of this guitar's construction. As it has been designed from the ground up as a 12-string, as opposed to a modified six-string model, it sports a reinforced bridge that can cope with the greatly increased load a 12-string has to bear.*_

_*This increased mass at the bridge also serves to enhance the resonance, meaning that the guitar projects with boldness. The bridge on the original Weymann incorporates a tailpiece that accommodates the octave strings, but it seems sensible that Brett has gone for a simpler design here.*_

It sounds like the guitar was designed with extra support in mind - so I would be curious if there was something happening inside the guitar. Pictures and measurements always help. 

Please supply more information - string guage - string height measure, amount of deflection of the belly etc. That would make it easier to determine the best solution.

Best of luck,
Chuck


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

*Here’s the Belly Reducer.*
The idea is, a set of matched cauls are heated and clamped to the bellied area. The cauls are curved so they bend the wood, counteracting the belly curve. The effect of the Reducer isn’t drastic, but it’s critical to fine guitars, as T.J. Thompson explains:

_“Fixing a potbelly with the Belly Reducer | stewmac.com



















_


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

That's the mod you are talking about Thomas ; put a tailpiece;









Vintage Paul Brett Statesboro 12-String review


Doubling the strings and re-treading a youthful rite of passage




www.musicradar.com


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## Finger Slicer (Feb 3, 2021)

Thanks for tour comments gentlemen,
, I think I'm going to proceed as follow, please let me know if I'm wrong at some point:

1. remove the bridge
2. reduce belly with applying pressure, heat, humidity (not sure which method I'm going to use)
3. checking the bracing and eventually fixing what's loose
4. bridge modification: my plan is to keep the upper strings of all courses pinned to the front row of holes (sound hole side) and drilling 6 holes through the back of the bridge in correspondence with the rear row of holes (tailpiece side) and connect new holes on the back with existing holes on the top. In this way the break angle won't change as the string will be passing through the existing hole. My only concern is about how tricky it would be making the string through the holes as the connection between them (let's call them pin holes and tailpiece holes) will be at 90° angle. Any commento on this would be appreciated.








My version would be similar to this, with octave strings going to tailpiece and other strings fixed with pins
6. regluing the bridge in position, checking the action and eventually shaving the saddle.
7. Aligning and fixing the tail piece; I'm thinking of using some dobro/resonator tailpiece, these are very similar to those used on vintage flat top
7. re-string
Thanks again
Nicola


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## Finger Slicer (Feb 3, 2021)

I'll take a few pictures and make some measurements over the weekend. I'm also showing the guitar to a luthier and decide how to proceed.
One more thing, Is there any viable way to reduce belly bulge without removing the bridge? 
Keep you posted
Nicola


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

One more thing, Is there any viable way to reduce belly bulge without removing the bridge?
Keep you posted
Nicola
*____*
Answer;
I never did this job even though I repair a lot of guitar and a lot of other things.

Regarding removing the bridge or not, I believe that the bridge is also deformed contributing to keep the top deformed and that you will have a lot of difficulty (if not an impossibility) to straighten the top while keeping the bridge.

*___*
About you Discussion Starter #5, sorry I can't help you.

Are you from Italy ?


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## Finger Slicer (Feb 3, 2021)

So I'm going to remove the bridge...and yes I am from Italy, sorry for my English...


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Your english is very well better than mine , I'm french Canadian and I can't speek Italian
I see your Italian flag, that is why my question.

I went fews time in Italia. I love you country and people. I wish to return after covid-19


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

I have to do the same work on a old and low budget guitar a Emperador I pay $5 ( 7 euros ) with broken neck I glue with succes 
I must unglue the bridge and make the top straight.


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

I start to work on my Emperador, same job as yours.
I do the job to learn and just for fun and if guitar can look better and easy to play
I remove bridge with steam iron for clothes and scraper. I use iron dry, no steam.





















Under the bridge:


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## alwaysflat (Feb 14, 2016)

On one old guitar, I've successfully deployed a JLD bridge doctor to belly reduce bulge. Installed permanently.


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## alwaysflat (Feb 14, 2016)

alwaysflat said:


> ...successfully deployed a JLD bridge doctor to belly reduce bulge. Installed permanently.


I'll add that the bridge doctor had a positive effect on sustain, and volume, tho not scientifically measured, just my perception. Also I expect had a minute positive affect on intonation. This guitar had miniscule dip at the neck block/ fretboard extension but no action taken there. It took about 6-8 weeks tweaking the JLD periodically.


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

Thank you for the link, I remember see it at Stew Mac long time ago. I forget it.
I'll look to built one or something doing same job . It is a cheap guitar I have.

No need to remove bridge.


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## alwaysflat (Feb 14, 2016)

Found this review link that has some photos of the inside 



As for cause, no telling, but cursory searches don't turn up much. Age and exposure to heat/humidity might allow some migration. Signs of having two bolts thru the saddle so it looks rugged. I wonder , without pictures, if you might also have signs of gaps under bracing ... a feeler gauge can explore for those.


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

I will build one.






JLD Bridge Doctor - StewMac


An alternative cure for over-bellyed guitar tops.




www.stewmac.com


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

My Bridge Doctor ;

I use bees wax to help to turn the set screw in wood


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## Latole (Aug 11, 2020)

One week later, top table is straight, no more belly bulge.

Hey Nicolas, any news ?


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