# Studio-from-scratch progress.



## KapnKrunch

Lucky me. I am retired with the resources to build, from scratch, a custom practice building.

This building will be re-purposed as a small garage for the next owner. However, I am sure the interior space can be designed to be acoustically neutral without the need for expensive acoustical treatment.

My concern is the exact INTERIOR dimensions to avoid standing waves and cancelling waves.

Current models are:
8' high x 13' wide x 21' long. (Fibonacci numerical sequence)
8' high x 13' wide x 21' long. (Golden Rectangle of the Greeks)

WTF!! Same result!

Seriously, does anyone know how to crunch the frequencies on these dimensions?

I am fairly confident just relying on these tried-and-true design basics, but it might be wise to see how it works out in engineering lingo. (It wouldn't be the first time I was totally mistaken.)

The two main loudspeaker coils will be positioned from corners using the same ratio.

And oh yeah. A single studio mic (or pair) to capture the room direct to tape for demos.


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## Granny Gremlin

The best thing to do is ensure that there are no parallel surfaces. After that the golden ratio dimensions become unimportant becasue standing waves will not form at any frequency (golden ratio itself is just a known set of proportions where standing waves are minimised, but not eliminated). The floor should be level, so slant the ceiling; just a few degrees will do. then take 1 interior wall and angle it away from the exterior at one end. This creates a triangular space that is unused - make a door and use it as storage or workshop area etc. Like this (left is top view, right is from the side; Black is exterior red is interior studding/drywall):










The next important consideration is symmetry on the listening axis. The above example is not perfect in this regard but good enough (and the easiest way to not have too much wasted space). The last room I built was in a much larger unit (used for shows, shoots, private parties etc) so I had the luxury to build a weird shape into a corner. This room sounded amazing and I miss it terribly. The only improvement would have been to make it a bit bigger (it wasn't as cramped as my current room, but more space would have been handy; more length than width) but I had to fit it between some columns and I couldn't take too much space away from the moneymakin (read: rent-paying) portion of the unit:










The storage room also had my workbench. Behind that (to the left) was the bathroom (which you'd get to from the the outside the studio area e.g. up from the bottom of the pic). The right edge of the pic is where the performance space was. In the early days I used the studio as a green room since the door was just off stage right, but then some asshole ruined that for everyone. A year or so into running this joint, I cut the corner on the bottom right to improve sight lines from the lounge/chill area to the stage.


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## KapnKrunch

Pretty fancy. Your input is always awesome, GG.

Minimized is OK. Eliminated is unecessary.

I am aware of this info, including the Golden Trapagon design. I considered building it when looking into a quarter-section of land last year. However, I opted for a two-acre lake lot with no electricity, so I am building in town.

This needs to fit into my existing driveway. Even the Golden Cuboid (the A.E.S. Standard) is out. The minimum space according to BBC specs is 1500 cu.ft., so a single car garage beats that by a mile. Dimensions are the only thing left to consider.

Most importantly, when I sell my home, this has to ACTUALLY BE a garage. No, I don't want to explain why the ceiling is slanted. Lol.


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## High/Deaf

I would probably err on the side of 'garage', just from a resale POV. Unless you're planning on tracking some high-level stuff, I think the dimensions you came up with would be just fine. As long as it's big enough to do what you want. You can always reduce reflections with sonic absorption, like Sonex or PrimeAcoustic. And if you want to make it sound larger in any dimension, you could invest in diffusers - but much more complicated and expensive than absorption. Carpet on the floors is cheap. And perhaps bass traps in a few or all of the corners. Easily reversible.

I would consider the garage aspect heavily. If you're dimensions are 1' too small in on dimension for two cars or two doors or whatever, I'd give up perfection to the greater (lor onger term) good and add the foot. A friend of mine bought Jeff Waters' old house out here and it had a two car garage that used to be his home studio. You may have heard that space if you've listened to any Annihilator from the early 2000s. I don't think he tracked drums there, but he played and sang most everything else and probably did most of it in that garage. Being as you want to mic the room and not the instruments/amps up close, you may feel differently about that, though.


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## KapnKrunch

OK. So I got off my butt and crunched the numbers myself. It wasn't too hard.

Dimension times two (to opposite surface and back again), then divided into the speed of sound, equals the resonant frequency. Do this for floor-to-ceiling, side-to-side, and front-to-back.

Height: 8'x2= 16' divided into 1130 ft/sec = 70hz
Width: 13'x2= 26' into 1130 = 43hz
Length: 21x2= 42 into 1130= 27hz

Multiply 70hz x2, x3, x4, x5, x6, x7, x8, x9, x10, x11.
Repeat for 43hz
And for 27hz.

Resulting resonances are
70hz: 140,210,280,350,420,490,560,630,700,770.
43hz: 86,129,173,215,258,301,344,387,430,473.
27hz: 54,81,108,135,162,189,216,243,270,297.

WOW! No duplications. Triples are especially bad. So this is a basically neutral room. This is good enough for me (with some simple, cheap, adjustable acoustic controls.)

You can do this math on your existing jam/recording space, mixing/mastering room. If you are getting triple resonances you can find out how to build specific frequency filter(s) to tame the room. Its all online.


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## KapnKrunch

The concrete forms laid out to roughly show the location of the garage/studio. Tomorrow put in stakes for the fifteen anchors which were made today and should be screwed in this week. The Golden Rectangle of the ancient Greeks. Pleasant to behold and acoustically neutral.


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## KapnKrunch

PHOTO: Work has slowed to a halt thanks to antibiotics that prevent me from working in the sun. Gotta dig out some unstable ground on the side with the grass, refill and pack with gravel. Dozen screw piles make the whole thing stable enough to attach to the house and even add a second story, if desired later. And finally, I took HighDeaf's advice and made a better "garage" by extending it to 24'. Notice the 24" chunk added to the closest side. A simple wall inside will return the jam space to the Golden Rectangle/Fibernacci dimensions. Thanks HighDeaf, good advice.

The antibiotics that are keeping me out of the sun, have given me time to continue to research F. Alton Everest's _Master Handbook of Acoustics Vol.4._ Particularly the section on reverberation.

(For those interested, the calculations for room reverberance are thus:
1. Calculate room volume; length x width x height =2184 cu.ft.
2. Calculate areas of absorption: in my case 273 sq.ft. of concrete floor and 817 sq.ft. of 1/2" drywall.
3. Multiply .049 times the total room volume and divide by [total surface area of material times the average absorption co-efficient of that material]. Do this for the concrete and the drywall at these frequencies: 125hz, 250hz, 500hz, 1Khz, 2Khz, and 4Khz. *NOTE:* the absorption co-efficient will change according to frequency so you will need to USE THE TABLES ON PAGES 585 to 587. This will give you the room reverb times for those frequencies. Make a graph.)

For those not interested in understanding acoustics, here's the skinny:

Reverb times are acceptably short at low frequencies and high frequencies, but between 500hz and 1Khz the reverb will be too long at 2.4sec. and 2.7sec.

No bass absortion required. This will be provided by the drywall (and insulation, staggered studs). No high end absorption required (but diffusion needs to be considered next). 500 to 1K is best absorbed by drapery. Whoee! Very simple, although 10oz to 16oz velour is quite costly, and twice the width is necessary to produce "1/2" fold coverage.

Basically all I have to do is figure out my speakers/microphone placement to make decent mono/stereo recordings of the room for archive/demo. Treat the walls and ceiling for primary reflections to the mic area. Add drapes, sufficient to lower 500 to 1K to half a second.

Carpet will produce more problems than it will solve as it does nothing but muffle a high end which is already within acceptable specs. Easy enuff to add later if I am wrong.


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## Granny Gremlin

pourin da pad, pourin da pad

I hope I am missreading, but it sounds like you are conflating acoustic treatment (how things sound to you in the room) with soundproofing; with that no bass absorption required statement. In any case, that can be added later on a very small budget; yopu gotta build the room first.


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## KapnKrunch

Granny Gremlin said:


> pourin da pad, pourin da pad
> 
> I hope I am missreading, but it sounds like you are conflating acoustic treatment (how things sound to you in the room) with soundproofing; with that no bass absorption required statement. In any case, that can be added later on a very small budget; yopu gotta build the room first.


Yes, there are so many ways to absorb bass, that won't be a problem. For now I will trust the calculations that I made per the book, and we shall see.

Mr. Everest's _Handbook_ or not -- I am just an amateur, hacking his way through. LOL. As long as I don't make a mistake that can't be undone...


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## KapnKrunch

Granny Gremlin said:


> pourin da pad, pourin da pad
> 
> I hope I am missreading, but it sounds like you are conflating acoustic treatment (how things sound to you in the room) with soundproofing; with that no bass absorption required statement. In any case, that can be added later on a very small budget; yopu gotta build the room first.


Lots of time to pour over the numbers. Of course you are correct, GG, about the bass absorption. Although reverb will not be a problem, there could be danger of standing waves at 216hz and 299hz. 

After an exhaustive study of all the options, I think I will go with perforated panels upright in the back corners (7/32" holes in masonite @ 6" centres; four inches deep: two inches of air and two inches of mineral wool). These will absorb bass ranging from 200hz to 300hz according to the Handbook. May create a (unnoticable?) dip around 230hz.

On the front wall, traps at the ceiling --one 1.3' deep (216hz) and one .94' deep (299hz) -- both sides. Velour drapes across front wall to shorten the 500hz to 1Khz reverb time.

Staggered acoustic tiles on sides and ceiling just to avoid parallel reflection problems. 

ANOTHER WONDERFUL THING ABOUT THE GOLDEN RECTANGLE. If you draw diagonals from corner to corner and select the centre of the room as the prime listening spot (recording mic), placing the speakers anywhere on those diagonals not only places them in the room at the Fibonacci ratio to the walls, it also creates an equilateral triangle with the centre of the room which is ideal for balanced reception of the sound. So many problems eliminated by starting with harmonious dimensions.

In theory anyway. We'll see. Haha.


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## High/Deaf

Fibonacci be damned, the most important spec - is there room for a beer fridge. You're in SK so you gotta have a beer fridge, replete with Rider stickers. All studios have some sort of 'green room' (i.e space for their Rider fridge).


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## KapnKrunch

Finally well enough to work outside after Lyme and antibiotics which made me hyper-sensitive to the sun.

COMPACTION = WEIGHT + WOBBLE + WATER 

Ready for re-bar


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## KapnKrunch

Forgot to get photo of rebar. The cement finisher said he would drive his loaded gravel truck on it. Bit of overkill on my part maybe. Lol. 

It will definitely stay put, if someone wants to add a storey and attach it to the house at a later time. Ten to twelve inches thick at the edges, then tapering, at about twelve inches in, to five or six inches deep inside.

Here is the finished pad. Ready for framing when I get back from holidays in a couple of weeks. 

I poured some curbs and sidewalk blocks with the extra concrete. Visible upper right. 

The forms for the sidewalk blocks are the correct depth for 300hz bass absorbers and I will use the material from the curb forms to make the sides of my 215hz absorbers. Lol. Lazy and cheap.


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## KapnKrunch

Finally able to start framing after lyme disease recovery and family vacations.

My suggestion for garage building: keep the windows and lighting on the sides where it does the most good for working on a vehicle.

For looks, the window size will also be the size of some staggered broadband absorbers on the long walls. I will staple burlap without vapour barrier in those spots, and simply cut rectangles out of the drywall. Moisture won't be a problem in a garage with no plumbing or round-the-clock occupancy. The windows will be stuffed with matching "cushions" filled with non-itchy polyester fill. Air conditioner in summer. Sound proofing not an issue in our tiny village.

Running up the centre of the back wall and across the ceiling will be the quadratic diffusion that I will be building from scrap lumber. More about that later.

The movable front wall (fake) will reduce the length to the proper Fibonacci dimension and will contain the two bass absorbers. Possibly more diffusion if it can be non-intrusive to the look and mobility of the wall. More about that later.

Having so much time off has given me the chance to research all the possible acoustic treatments. My level of anticipation borders on ridiculous...


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## Steadfastly

It looks like this is going to be a serious studio. Looking forward to watching the progress and seeing and hearing the final product.


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## Chito

Just wondering, as you are already building one, why didn't you have space for a control room? That way your monitors are out of the recording room.


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## Granny Gremlin

There are advantages to the one room studio approach (as well as disadvantages).


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## KapnKrunch

Chito said:


> Just wondering, as you are already building one, why didn't you have space for a control room? That way your monitors are out of the recording room.


Not a recording studio. Just a practise space with half-decent acoustics. 

"Recording" will consist of a single microphone (or connected pair) into a reel-to-reel. Properly positioned with so-called "quick sound field" (I already have built my own version), this mic will simply record what is happening at one end of the room. For demo and archive only. 

Lots of guys around with real recording facilities. 

Also, control room treatment is much more demanding. Given that I hate recording, mixing, etc... don't wanna learn it. 

Thanks for the interest in my project, guys. Makes it way more fun!


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## Chito

Ahhh... was just curious about it since you are building it. I know what you mean about the recording/mixing aspect of it. I did the same thing originally in my basement, had a single stereo mic to record rehearsals. Later on I got a Tascam US-1641 so I can record each instrument/vocals individually. 

Anyway, looking forward to see it when it's finished.


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## sambonee

you're doing a great job. I'm very impressed. I'd like to do something like this. I know that it's likely to be a bit personal, BUT the budgeting of something like this really interests me as I'm about to embark, (when time and money permit), on an adventure like this one beside my house only as a recording studio. 20' x 20' or so.

keep up the good work. I hope you're getting the final blood testing for the Lyme done properly in the top spot in the USA. it's known to hide inside cells over time. Just a thought as I'm doing bicom treatment to remove lyme and all the peripheral parasites that follow it along.

anyway awesome work.


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## KapnKrunch

sambonee said:


> you're doing a great job. I'm very impressed. I'd like to do something like this. I know that it's likely to be a bit personal, BUT the budgeting of something like this really interests me as I'm about to embark, (when time and money permit), on an adventure like this one beside my house only as a recording studio. 20' x 20' or so.


Thanks for the encouragement.

I can share the expenses, no problem. So far it's been about five grand for an *overbuilt* slab (suitable for second story later) and about $2700 for the walls (framed, sheeted, two windows, man-door, 10-foot garage door R-16 insulation). Trusses ordered but no invoice yet.

I live in a small village and the "red tape" here involved showing the council a sketch of two rectangles: one rectangle was my existing house and the other was the proposed garage. Lol. The mayor (electrician who will wire it), and the two councillors (one councillor will install the eavestrough, and the other played drums in a band with me). They sent me a note saying "looks good". I doubt it will be that simple for you. So I can't help with bureaucratic expenses you will have to endure.

Otherwise, my TOP PIECE OF ADVICE:

Immediately download _The Master Handbook of Acoustics Vol. 4 _by F. Alton Everest and *start studying*. You can find it for free. 

The first thing to figure out the best dimensions for the interior. This will eliminate so many problems before they are even created. (Hint: nothing could be worse than a square, except a cube  I am no expert but the book definitely gives you a fighting chance. There are so many options. You can think about it on sleepless nights. Lol.

Thanks again for the support on the garage and the Lyme.


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## sambonee

Pretty good. I wonder what your $/sq. ft. Will end up at?


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## Lola

OMG I am so jealous! 

My husband promised me when we move that if the property doesn't have an outter building that can be converted to a studio he said he would build me one! 

Can we come for a visit?


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## KapnKrunch

Waiting for trusses to be delivered, so I made a quadratic diffuser out of scrap lumber. 

I have enough scrap 1x6 for four of these to go on the back wall. Could be any length, but I will make them square, so two will defract horizontally and two will defract vertically. Based on prime number of 23. Deepest well is blank and uses the wall for bottom.

The ceiling diffusers will be made from 1x4 so they will be narrower and much longer. Based on prime number of 13.

I use 1/4" increments because this makes it easy to work with standard lumber and tape measure.

3/4" width is good. Anything over an inch gets you out of the desired range of frequencies. You can defract lower frequencies by putting secondary diffusers on wider slats, but the device ends up being too dang thick. These stand out only 4-1/2". Ceiling will be even less.


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## sambonee

When I'm ready I'll rent a trailer and you can come to milton and rock another jam space just like yours. I'm quite impressed with your dedication to making it right. 

I'll have to be diligent so that my interest doesn't wain when mine eventually begins. 

These days I don't even like changing strings! Buddies still ask me " this guitar plays quite well. How old are the strings? (My Answer) Which one??? LOL


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## Granny Gremlin

Good lookin diffusers.


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## Steadfastly

KapnKrunch said:


> View attachment 116561
> View attachment 116569
> Waiting for trusses to be delivered, so I made a quadratic diffuser out of scrap lumber.


I have never seen these before. I am glad you explained them and added to my education.


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## greco

Looks like a cool work of art (to me). Especially if one doesn't know the intended purpose.

Do the ceiling diffusers look similar (only with reduced depth)?

Congrats on the build!

Cheers

Dave


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## KapnKrunch

greco said:


> Looks like a cool work of art (to me).
> Do the ceiling diffusers look similar (only with reduced depth)?


They will also have a symetrical (and repeating) pattern based on their prime number. Because the number is lower, there are fewer "steps", therefore narrower. Length is arbitrary.

The expensive ones made by RPG use much larger prime numbers, so they are wider and deeper. Also, some are way more complicated, diffusing in all three directions not just two. There are also tiny applications of the same principles.

The biggest one (custom job) shown in the book is twenty feet long and three feet deep!

These are only 18" square. The ceiling will have 10.5" x 48" units run down the centre. As many as I can make from existing scrap.

Typical internet project. I have just learned enough to become dangerous. Lol.

More pics later. Its all in the book. Free download. Get it. I find it fascinating. 

Diffusion serves two purposes: eliminate wave problems like cancellation and exaggeration; and make the room sound bigger. Quadratic diffusion, according to the author, has revolutionized the field making older techniques, like splayed walls and polycylindrical walls, less attractive (because of the labour involved mostly, but also somewhat inferior results)


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## greco

KapnKrunch said:


> Its all in the book. Free download. Get it. I find it fascinating.


Thanks for the detailed response...much appreciated.

Where does one find the free download of the book?

Thanks


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## KapnKrunch

greco said:


> Thanks for the detailed response...much appreciated.
> 
> Where does one find the free download of the book?
> 
> Thanks


www.roletech.net

Just google. I see there is a fifth edition now. Even a sixth on amazon. 

Bear in mind that for our purposes, this is a REFERENCE book. Browse thru find the topics thatvpertain to you...


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## KapnKrunch

Still waiting for trusses, so I made a prototype of the ceiling diffusor. This one refracts on two planes. 

And so will the ones on the wall when two of the four are rotated 90 degrees. Very much like these are built. Get it?


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## KapnKrunch

The trusses finally arrived today. They are up. Ready for sheeting and shingles.


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## LanceT

I always enjoy construction related pictures with sledgehammers.


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## sambonee

Dude you're f-en killing it! I'm so happy for you. 

It's far but incoming to jam is me and my rock ...... one day, over the rainbow, way up high!!! 

Pm me a list of the gear you want to fill it with and I'd be happy to help you find it. Ciao


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## KapnKrunch

The Prime 23 diffusers were the perfect width for a ramp to unload the 300lb woodburning stove. The roof is on, shingled, chimney installed. Windows, doors, soffit and fascia -- ready for winter! Wood fire for auxiliary heat only, humidity will be closely watched.

I think the diffusion, even though pointed at the floor, made my usual cussing and swearing, more clearly defined throughout the neighbourhood.


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## Guest

I've used that 'lifting the cap' technique many times. lol.
Someday I'll post a pic on how I remove/replace it by myself.


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## TVvoodoo

Just found this thread kapn, very Kool!


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## KapnKrunch

At least three different brands of tarpaper on the back, all donated by neighbours! Everybody gone to Tyvek-style house wrap. I used house wrap when I built my house. First storm. There was water all over inside. Waste of $400. Checked a contractors forum for "tyvek vs building felt". Although many used tyvek on their customer jobs (easier), most everyone used tarpaper on their OWN home, garage, etc.

The myth that tarpaper doesn't breath is false. Water must vaporize to escape through house wrap, but tar paper absorbs a little, expands a little, absorbs a little more, expands a little more, etc. The condensation is wicked away, while the tarpaper still retains the ability to shed "running" water.

Contractors reported that tarpaper was virtually "new" under twenty-year-old siding, but Tyvek was "like newspaper" under five-year-old siding.

Best comment: "Anyway, a real man uses tarpaper."

Lumber yard phoned and the siding will be here by noon. Soffit and faschia is waiting in the garage. A contractor friend will install the door, because I have never done that on a concrete slab and I have never done a garage door. I want it done right and don't need to learn it, as I have no plans to do another one later.

Electrician coming next week.

One last detail. The little "skirting" protecting the styrofoam around the sides of the slab is plastic decking left over from a neighbour's project.


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## KapnKrunch

Ready to move inside. Power company here on Monday. Electrical, insulation/vapourbarrier, drywall, woodstove, acoustics, then...

ALL MY WONDERFUL GEAR!!

Mrs Krunch already cleaning windows. Whatta gal!


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## jdto

This is so freakin' cool.


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## Granny Gremlin

[cockney] Oi, lets have a peek at the inside, then [/cockney]

Inspired by the great Joe Strummer, always telling it like it is (see the intro this this song, he litterally called that in to the radio show from the studio control room):


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## Ti-Ron

KapnKrunch said:


> Ready to move inside. Power company here on Monday. Electrical, insulation/vapourbarrier, drywall, woodstove, acoustics, then...
> 
> ALL MY WONDERFUL GEAR!!
> 
> Mrs Krunch already cleaning windows. Whatta gal!
> 
> View attachment 132649


She's not helping you, she's making space in HER house! 

Seriously, congrats you build yourself a nice spot.
Will we have to chance to get a peak insie?


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## KapnKrunch

OK, we are inside as requested yesterday. 

The electricians came this afternoon and roughed in the walls and ceiling, so I can keep working on the weekend. I wanna get the insulation and drywall out of the way. So nice to live in a small village, where the guys care about your project. They will finish on Monday.


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## KapnKrunch

Yes!

Lights and receptacles after drywall.

220v for my welder (run cord through window).


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## sulphur




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## jb welder

KapnKrunch said:


> View attachment 133761
> 
> 
> Yes!


That sure looks like tanks full of refreshments outside. Christening this weekend?


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## sambonee

I'm so happy for you. This is a killer project. And you've hit a home run !! 

Please recap the dimensions etc....


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## KapnKrunch

sambonee said:


> Please recap the dimensions etc....


The gararge is just over 14x24 outside with a 4/12 pitch to the roof and one-foot eaves.

Inside, with an acoustic (fake) wall, the studio space will be exactly 8'x 13'x21' as discussed in the original post. An extra two feet were added to make it a better garage for the next owner.


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## sambonee

That's an awesome space. What are you going to use for recording?


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## KapnKrunch

Record the room. Single mic or pair into reel-to-reel. Jam space, not recording studio. Covert to mp3 on computer in Audacity to share with others.


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## sambonee

That's great. If you found a zoom R-16 or R-24 for a good price, that would open up some options. 

I had my jam space running 7 tracks for live recording with excellent results using the -R-24


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## KapnKrunch

sambonee said:


> That's great. If you found a zoom R-16 or R-24 for a good price, that would open up some options.
> 
> I had my jam space running 7 tracks for live recording with excellent results using the -R-24


I tried the multi-track thing and hated it. Spent more time twiddling knobs, pressing buttons, and moving sliders than I did playing. Sold everything, went to good old tape. Plenty of guys around with recording facilities.


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## KapnKrunch

Best diffuser yet. Built while waiting for insulation and drywall.

Two 1x8x16' and one 1x6x16' make a Prime 31 quadratic diffuser that is 2'x2' (perfect for attaching to studs horizontally or vertically). About $25.

There are sixteen well depths (zero to 31) in mirror image for 32 pieces three-quarters of an inch wide. 

It is seven inches deep. The deeper they are the lower the range of frequencies diffused.

Problem? The effin thing weighs 45.2 pounds!!! I was shocked. Each little board was like a stick of styrofoam.

Next time I will cut (hidden) holes to lighten it up.

Live and learn...


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## keto

I like how you keep modding the thread title too, keeps me coming back. That and the awesome work and details.


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## isoneedacoffee

I too am loving this thread. I have a question why did you choose a diffuser and not a bass trap or multi band absorber?


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## KapnKrunch

isoneedacoffee said:


> I too am loving this thread. I have a question why did you choose a diffuser and not a bass trap or multi band absorber?


You need all three.

Bass traps will be built to tame the problem resonances, which in my case are 213hz and 295hz, according to calculations of the room (mentioned earlier). Most of the bass is "trapped" by the drywall and insulation. Just a couple of mild peaks to deal with.

Broadband absorbers will deal with lengthy reverberations, peaking at 500hz to 1khz. Calculations mentioned earlier.

Diffusion will decrease the chances of problems with different studio set-ups while keeping the room sounding large and lively, not dead. No calculation done to determine what frequencies will affected by each of the three different diffusors. Just going by basic suggestions.

This might sound very technical, but this is by no means an engineered recording or mastering facility. These are "hand grenade" solutions for a retired welder who wants a decent jam space.

The most important feature of the room remains its Fibernacci dimensions. So many problems eliminated at the outset.


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## Dorian2

Haven't been here in a bit, looking good. One thing that's really impressive, besides the great detail you've put into everything, is the community support and that seems rather apparent. Along with the necessary Spousal support of course!


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## Ti-Ron

Dorian2 said:


> Haven't been here in a bit, looking good. One thing that's really impressive, besides the great detail you've put into everything, is the community support and that seems rather apparent. Along with the necessary Spousal support of course!


He doesn't know yet but @KapnKrunch is hosting the next GC get together in his newly build studio. 
That's why we support him so much!


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## Dorian2

Ti-Ron said:


> He doesn't know yet but @KapnKrunch is hosting the next GC get together in his newly build studio.
> That's why we support him so much!


Make sure that he understands he'll have to purchase 2 way plane tix for the folks out West then. Hope to see you soon Kapn!


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## High/Deaf

KapnKrunch said:


> You need all three.
> 
> Bass traps will be built to tame the problem resonances, which in my case are 213hz and 295hz, according to calculations of the room (mentioned earlier). Most of the bass is "trapped" by the drywall and insulation. Just a couple of mild peaks to deal with.
> 
> Broadband absorbers will deal with lengthy reverberations, peaking at 500hz to 1khz. Calculations mentioned earlier.
> 
> Diffusion will decrease the chances of problems with different studio set-ups while keeping the room sounding large and lively, not dead. No calculation done to determine what frequencies will affected by each of the three different diffusors. Just going by basic suggestions.
> 
> This might sound very technical, but this is by no means an engineered recording or mastering facility. These are "hand grenade" solutions for a retired welder who wants a decent jam space.


Good explanation and write up. And great looking diffuser. Never realized they'd be that heavy.



> The most important feature of the room remains its *Fibernacci dimensions.* So many problems eliminated at the outset.


Freudian slip? You were eating cereal at the time and getting your fiber on?

Fibonacci number - Wikipedia




Ti-Ron said:


> He doesn't know yet but @KapnKrunch is hosting the next GC get together in his newly build studio.
> That's why we support him so much!



LOL He's only a couple hours from my home town. I'd be able to include this in a trip back home so ................... I'm in!!! Probably have to bring a tiny rig, though.


----------



## KapnKrunch

High/Deaf said:


> Freudian slip? You were eating cereal at the time and getting your fiber on?
> 
> Fibonacci number - Wikipedia
> 
> LOL He's only a couple hours from my home town. I'd be able to include this in a trip back home so ................... I'm in!!! Probably have to bring a tiny rig, though.


Haha. I am eating oatmeal right now.. in the the proper "fiber"-nacci sequence. 

Don't worry... lots of guitars and amps here. Just PM the time of your visit!


----------



## Granny Gremlin

Ti-Ron said:


> He doesn't know yet but @KapnKrunch is hosting the next GC get together in his newly build studio.
> That's why we support him so much!


Dood! play it cool man - I was planning to warm him up slowly for that.



Dorian2 said:


> Make sure that he understands he'll have to purchase 2 way plane tix for the folks out West then. Hope to see you soon Kapn!


I believe there will be a chartered cheezewagon; that's the best we could afford, sorry. We'll try to make it one that's painted paisley and runs on recycled deep fryer oil... just , uh, bring some of that west coast stuff with you, eh.


----------



## KapnKrunch

Drywall done, ready for electricians to load receptacles and panel.

Garage door blocks the opening. It will remain non-functional to allow for fake wall to the ceiling for proper room dimensions. FIBOnacci, dammit! If the next owner want a garage, not a studio, easy enough to tear out the acoustics, patch & paint, and put top rails in for door.

Enjoyed first fire of wood scraps. Two freestanding 1500w heaters for 24-hr heat.

Ready to start "studio-izing"!!!


----------



## Granny Gremlin

An often overlooked studio necessity; somewhere to boil the kettle for tea.


----------



## Mooh

Cool thread.

I once knew a guy who installed a urinal in his shop/practice space. 

A bar fridge is always nice but, like a wall clock and cooling fans, it can make too much noise when recording.


----------



## Granny Gremlin

Mooh said:


> I once knew a guy who installed a urinal in his shop/practice space.


After seeing the mess around the urinal at work (and this is a proper office not some dogfood warehouse), I wouldn't even consider that . I mean if that's the best sober tie-wearing dudes can do, I don't wanna see what happens with a bunch of rockers after 2 beers, and certainly not in the room with all my gear in it.

Seriously, I've just walked out and gone to another floor a few times. 

What I would do is put in an exhaust hood - both for soldering and smokin.


----------



## Guitar101

Good luck firing up that wood stove when your practicing. That will drive you right out of the place or all of your door's and windows will have to be open. Good luck with it though. The place is looking pretty nice.


----------



## KapnKrunch

Guitar101 said:


> Good luck firing up that wood stove when your practicing. That will drive you right out of the place or all of your door's and windows will have to be open. Good luck with it though. The place is looking pretty nice.


Stove is quite small and doesn't need to be heaped up with wood to burn. This afternoon a handful of glowing embers kept the place perfect for hours. 

I have burned wood since 1974, and I have not ruined a guitar since 1975 (lol). It was one of those red plastic Hagstroms that Devo used.

Besides, the stove is mostly to reassure my wife of our survival in emergency/pandemic/apocalypse.


----------



## jb welder

KapnKrunch said:


> I have not ruined a guitar since 1975 (lol). It was one of those red plastic Hagstroms that Devo used.


I hope you saved the matching hat.


----------



## dcole

Mooh said:


> I once knew a guy who installed a urinal in his shop/practice space.


My buddy has done this in every garage he can. He is one of those guys that drinks so much in the garage that he would get sick of going into the house to pee.


----------



## sambonee

Urinal 
Riff wrath has one on the outside wall that empties into a pile of rocks on the ground. 


Bar fridge noisy? They stay cool unplugged for up to 2 hrs. Not to worry.


----------



## KapnKrunch

In the words of Gar Gillies:

"I thought I was a genius when I thought of that."

Unfortunately for me, using readily available lumber to build a precisely tuned bass filter is a COMPLETE BLUNDER.
No consistency to the materrial whatsoever. After a few boards it was obvious that I was getting less than 20% accuracy on my spaces (calculated to within a few thousandths of an inch).

In addition to lateral warpage, the boards were going in and out, varying the height of the gap as well as the width.

Abort. Abort.

Go with the " pegboard" style, NOT the "slat" style. I will have to calculate the hole spacing to suit the cavities that I have already built. No problem.

The 503 rigid fibreglass (FIBOglass?) was good to work with. Cut it to within an eighth of an inch for a good fit. It does not cram like soft fivreglass. Use sparing to widen the "Q" of your filter slightly. I used less than an inch.


----------



## jb welder

KapnKrunch said:


> After a few boards it was obvious that I was getting less than 20% accuracy on my spaces (*calculated to within a few thousandths of an inch*).


lol, sounds like a machinist/metal worker doing woodwork. Isn't +/-20% a pretty tight tolerance for carpenters?


----------



## KapnKrunch

The guts of the acoustic control wall. The "fake" wall.

First, it dimensions the room from garage proportions to studio proportions.

Second, dual bass filters (on each side) tame possible room resonances at 215hz (the traps closest to walls) and 300hz (the traps closest to centre). The chamber depth is 3.625" with "pegboard" covers. .25" diameter holes at 1.75" spacing for 215hz and 1.25" for 300hz. Nothing super accurate here. Handy measurements were used and a bit of 503 rigid fibreglass in the cavity to widen the "Q" response to cover for any lack of accuracy and incidental angles.

Third, a strip of leftover insulation across the top for some broadband absorption instead of throwing it away. More important is the storage of my "quick sound field" tubes. I have displayed them with the three on your left showing the reflective sides and the three on the right showing the absorptive side. All they are is pipe insulation with a half-wrap of aluminium. Any industrial insulation place can make them up for you at a fraction of the cost of commercial ones. The wooden "cases" I have them in are completely superfluous (waste of time). They are covered with the cheap burlap people wrap around their shrubs in winter. These six are about the same cost as one commercial one. These tubes will ALL be turned to be aborptive, to provide my end-to-end broadband. They can be removed for quick-field use on a microphone.

The bottom needs to be closed somehow and a removable screen of fancier burlap will hide the whole mess.


----------



## KapnKrunch

Later that same day...


----------



## KapnKrunch

Lights, receptacles, quadratic diffusors installed. Same echo, but shorter. Same sound everywhere in the room.

Next: broadband absorption on the side walls. Eight staggered pieces of Roxul Safe & Sound


----------



## Granny Gremlin

Love the bass bin as workbench.


----------



## sambonee

Make sure that oven doesn’t rattle !!! 

You hit a home run man. Awesome.


----------



## KapnKrunch

Cut half-inch to three-quarter-inch strips off 1x4's.

Make a frame with a centre strip to screw to the wall stud.

Insert acoustic (not thermal) insulation.

Cover with burlap from a church rummage sale.

Cover staples with the strips cut from 1x4's.

Make eight because the bag of Roxul Safe 'n Sound has eight pieces in it. (Very technical acoustical calculation. Lol)


----------



## greco

KapnKrunch said:


> Make *eight* because the bag of Roxul Safe 'n Sound has *eight* pieces in it. (Very technical acoustical calculation. Lol)


You ALMOST lost me on that sophisticated calc! 

Looks great...thanks for the pics and update


----------



## KapnKrunch

Third day slugging away at gear that was in storage.

Mixer broken. Back-up mixer humming like crazy. Cheap shit. I am getting an APB Prospec 1U4m4s single unit rackmount. Pricey, but the reputation is there.

Also, proper speaker stands, although the little tables have nostalgic value. My dad made them when he worked at a plywood mill.

And oh yeah... the 18" sub and 600w amp that I got for $10 at the theatre -- WORK PERFECT!


----------



## jb welder

I like the seating!


----------



## KapnKrunch

jb welder said:


> I like the seating!


Also from the Redvers theatre auction. Twelve for sixty dollars. Quite a bit of flavour left in some of the gum too!


----------



## Granny Gremlin

Man, buying stuff at auctions in Toronto is no longer a bargain. It's like people who have no idea just get caught up in bidding and don't have the sense to stop. I went to a studio close auction a while back and a third of the way through, Jim Cuddy just turned to his companion with a scrunched face and they both left (I suspected they were there for one of the consoles and they all went for stupid prices). People (and you could tell many were not even involved in music or audio - just follow the auctions around - some brought their entire famalies) were bidding stuff up to more than current used prices, and in some cases, new prices (I had done my homework and had set myself limits - I knew it would be competitive but holy dang). I managed to score a Senheisser MD421 for $300 which was an OK price; got 2 more for the same amount cuz the rule was if you won and there were more you had right of first refusal for the rest of the same item (the one I didn't take got bid up even higher - just shakin my head at the fool)... and I stayed to the end when most folks had followed Cuddy's lead, so I also won the nice leather couch from the control room for like $100 - even came with a roach between the cushions. Let another guy take the Atlas studio mic stands I had checked out even though I knew they were worth more ($400 new + a lot of shipping) than the bid; he was thrilled to have not wasted his time completely and I was only interested if they were dirt cheap. Good thing too because I hardly have the height to warrant those bad boys in my current room (at the time I had 18 foot ceilings).


----------



## LanceT

Man I hope you alarm the heck out of that place or have 24 hr security.


----------



## jb welder

He's in SK. Lucky if he remembers to lock the doors.


----------



## Adcandour

Looks great, but are you not going to finish it with paint and flooring?


----------



## KapnKrunch

adcandour said:


> Looks great, but are you not going to finish it with paint and flooring?


No. Enough carpentry. Time to rock! 

Also, this is a garage. When I sell the home, the studio will be gutted and then the drywall can be touched up and painted. If the new owner wants a studio or home theatre he can decorate to taste.


----------



## KapnKrunch

jb welder said:


> He's in SK. Lucky if he remembers to lock the doors.


As a matter of fact, I don't lock the door. Its great to live in an "under-populated" area. Always have. Hard to find bandmates sometimes, tho'.


----------



## mawmow

Oh my gosh ! I tought I would read a lot about miles of cables running between pedals and mixer and maybe keyboard all adding to each other and plugged into hardware and PC with ever more complex software...

You really began from "scratch" ! Great project ! Love it ! Congratulations !
(My room studio is nothing compared to your "garage".)


----------



## KapnKrunch

Welded my own stands (permanent, not portable).

The dispersion on the Bill Fitzmaurice loudspeaker design is so wide that I can use them as side monitors as well as to fill the room. You can see these actual speakers on the home page of speakerhardware.com. Custom made by Leland Crooks. They are driven by Stephenson Stereo Sixty (watt/side) vacuum-tube PA amp (serial#001) on the Garnet in corner.

* New*: APB ProSpec 1U4M4S mixer -- expensive, but wonderful vocal preamps! (VoiceLive is now for fakey guitar and looper only. The two-bit converters on the multi-effects unit sound like crap on vocals, compared to the real thing. Likewise the Symetrix 528e's, although decent "pro-sumer" gear, and still useful for utilitarian tasks, do NOT improve the sound of the APB preamps when inserted into the APB channel.)

*Also new: *_Songbook_ software on computer displays lyrics and chords.

The room is recorded thru two Austrian-made AKG C1000's into a couple of older Symetrix 528 channel strips. Monitored thru headphones.

Still need reverb and phono preamp.

Otherwise -- DONE!!

Took almost two weeks of head-scratching to get everything out of storage and set-up. First jam/practise was last Saturday night.

Friend's wife: "This is like a dream come true!"

Excuse all my boasting, but I am quite pleased with the outcome. I want to record the room and send the recording to my son for an analysis of its acoustics. Sounds good to me, but it will be fun to know just how "neutral" it really is. The sound is quite lively and large for a single car garage.


----------



## jb welder

Very nice.
Are you going with Roland, the Headless Thompson drummer (machine) or will you have a kit?


----------



## Guncho

Apparently wood stove heat is very bad for guitars. Very dry. Also if the room is going hot, cold, hot, cold I wouldn't be leaving any guitars out there.


----------



## KapnKrunch

jb welder said:


> Very nice.
> Are you going with Roland, the Headless Thompson drummer (machine) or will you have a kit?


Picked up the snare in Brandon MB, at a flea market. $20. Added a cheap stand $28. Good brushes are $50, however.

$200 bass, $100 synth, and the free-for-pick-up Hammond.

This is the "toy" section. No talent required! Gives the less disciplined visitors something to do...


----------



## KapnKrunch

Guncho said:


> Apparently wood stove heat is very bad for guitars. Very dry. Also if the room is going hot, cold, hot, cold I wouldn't be leaving any guitars out there.


See previous comments about the woodstove.


----------



## bzrkrage

Hey Kapn, great job. Enjoyed the build, thank you.
The floor, I know is a slab, are you using carpets?
Is there any floor sound/echo?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## greco

Great work! Congratulations!

Thanks for all of the pics and running commentary. Appreciated and enjoyed very much.

According to this pic, it appears that someone was so (sonically) impressed that it blew him right out of his shoes!!


----------



## Guitar101

Watch the concrete floors. Many years ago, my wife almost got electrocuted touching the mike with her lips when singing. Don't know if the concrete played any part in it.


----------



## KapnKrunch

bzrkrage said:


> Hey Kapn, great job. Enjoyed the build, thank you.
> Th flood, I know is a slab, are you using carpets?
> Is there any floor sound/echo?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The rug was nothing but a tripping hazard. Early calculations indicated that the highest frequencies did not need any treatment, and sure enough, removing the rug made no audible difference.


----------



## Chito

Congratulations! Great job!


----------



## High/Deaf

Congrats on a great project. You pulled it off and it looks excellent. It's been fun watching the progression. And done before the holidays so you can 'rock in the new year'. It should be a blast, with the theatre seating and all. 

This part made me chuckle:



KapnKrunch said:


> The two-bit converters on the multi-effects unit sound like crap on vocals, compared to the real thing.


By 'two-bit', did you mean cheap (as in, worth 25c) or did you mean low res digital conversion (as in, 1/4 of a byte)?


Anyways, I wish you many happy hours in your new room. And a Merry Christmas to you and yours out on the prairies. Sounds like we might have a whiter Christmas out here than you will out there.


----------



## KapnKrunch

High/Deaf said:


> By 'two-bit', did you mean cheap (as in, worth 25c) or did you mean low res digital conversion (as in, 1/4 of a byte)?.


Haha. I made a joke! (And didn't even know it.) good one HiDeaf.


----------



## SWLABR

WOW, this is amazing! To have the light bulb idea to start this, see it in your head and carry out every step to fruition.... awesome!


----------



## cbg1

interesting PA cabs can you provide some details/info .....thanks


----------



## KapnKrunch

cbg1 said:


> interesting PA cabs can you provide some details/info .....thanks


The speakers are a Bill Fitzmaurice design. They are meant to be highly efficient. They seemed to be a good match to the PA amp which is a vacuum tube stereo running only 60w per side (as opposed to current mega-watt amps, driving tiny, but inefficient, speakers). Mark Stephenson who built the amp for me recommended a Fitzmaurice design.

I stayed away from today's compact PA's strictly for the sake of old school charm. I have nostalgic memories of crappy "bingo" microphones and 20-watt tube amps driving cheesy little columns. 

The array of piezo tweeters is not meant to be high-fidelity, but rather to be efficient. Efficient enough to blast two hundred people. An ADR horn can be fitted instead of piezo's for a more hifi sound, but these are fine for my purposes. Yes, I listen to my vinyl albums through them, although at lower volumes, so I use a couple of Symetrix 528's to boost the bass a bit (in the sub) and trim off a little of the high end. Not much, just a pinch.

They were built for me by Leland Crooks in Kansas. You can see them featured on his homepage, mostly because of the white and chrome look which has "drawn more comments than any other speaker I have built." 

This is the Jack 12 speaker cabinet with extra tweeters. A relatively simple build compared to other Fitzmaurice speakers. All kinds of kits are available if you want to build your own. Leland is a regular guy and easy to talk to. If you want to reference my custom build, he calls them "The Kodiaks" I think. 

In retrospect, using a sub, I would go with the smaller Jack 10's and the horn. These units are too large to place properly in this little room. Maybe for listening only, they could be where they should be, but for jamming they have to be crammed against the wall. The super wide dispersion is a real plus for monitoring while playing. They conveniently spin on the stands I made, for monitoring to different areas, so that makes "listening room" placement an irrelevant point anyway. This a jam space, not a mastering facility.

DIY Speaker Kits & Parts | Speaker Hardware

http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/


----------



## cbg1

KapnKrunch said:


> The speakers are a Bill Fitzmaurice design. They are meant to be highly efficient. They seemed to be a good match to the PA amp which is a vacuum tube stereo running only 60w per side (as opposed to current mega-watt amps, driving tiny, but inefficient, speakers). Mark Stephenson who built the amp for me recommended a Fitzmaurice design.
> 
> I stayed away from today's compact PA's strictly for the sake of old school charm. I have nostalgic memories of crappy "bingo" microphones and 20-watt tube amps driving cheesy little columns.
> 
> The array of piezo tweeters is not meant to be high-fidelity, but rather to be efficient. Efficient enough to blast two hundred people. An ADR horn can be fitted instead of piezo's for a more hifi sound, but these are fine for my purposes. Yes, I listen to my vinyl albums through them, although at lower volumes, so I use a couple of Symetrix 528's to boost the bass a bit (in the sub) and trim off a little of the high end. Not much, just a pinch.
> 
> They were built for me by Leland Crooks in Kansas. You can see them featured on his homepage, mostly because of the white and chrome look which has "drawn more comments than any other speaker I have built."
> 
> This is the Jack 12 speaker cabinet with extra tweeters. A relatively simple build compared to other Fitzmaurice speakers. All kinds of kits are available if you want to build your own. Leland is a regular guy and easy to talk to. If you want to reference my custom build, he calls them "The Kodiaks" I think.
> 
> In retrospect, using a sub, I would go with the smaller Jack 10's and the horn. These units are too large to place properly in this little room. Maybe for listening only, they could be where they should be, but for jamming they have to be crammed against the wall. The super wide dispersion is a real plus for monitoring while playing. They conveniently spin on the stands I made, for monitoring to different areas, so that makes "listening room" placement an irrelevant point anyway. This a jam space, not a mastering facility.
> 
> DIY Speaker Kits & Parts | Speaker Hardware
> 
> http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/


Thanks for a great reply...will check things out once I get to my desktop


----------



## urko99

A job well done for an excellent jam space! Wish I had the room to do what you did.


----------



## Dorian2

KapnKrunch said:


> The speakers are a Bill Fitzmaurice design. They are meant to be highly efficient. They seemed to be a good match to the PA amp which is a vacuum tube stereo running only 60w per side (as opposed to current mega-watt amps, driving tiny, but inefficient, speakers). Mark Stephenson who built the amp for me recommended a Fitzmaurice design.
> 
> I stayed away from today's compact PA's strictly for the sake of old school charm. I have nostalgic memories of crappy "bingo" microphones and 20-watt tube amps driving cheesy little columns.
> 
> The array of piezo tweeters is not meant to be high-fidelity, but rather to be efficient. Efficient enough to blast two hundred people. An ADR horn can be fitted instead of piezo's for a more hifi sound, but these are fine for my purposes. Yes, I listen to my vinyl albums through them, although at lower volumes, so I use a couple of Symetrix 528's to boost the bass a bit (in the sub) and trim off a little of the high end. Not much, just a pinch.
> 
> They were built for me by Leland Crooks in Kansas. You can see them featured on his homepage, mostly because of the white and chrome look which has "drawn more comments than any other speaker I have built."
> 
> This is the Jack 12 speaker cabinet with extra tweeters. A relatively simple build compared to other Fitzmaurice speakers. All kinds of kits are available if you want to build your own. Leland is a regular guy and easy to talk to. If you want to reference my custom build, he calls them "The Kodiaks" I think.
> 
> In retrospect, using a sub, I would go with the smaller Jack 10's and the horn. These units are too large to place properly in this little room. Maybe for listening only, they could be where they should be, but for jamming they have to be crammed against the wall. The super wide dispersion is a real plus for monitoring while playing. They conveniently spin on the stands I made, for monitoring to different areas, so that makes "listening room" placement an irrelevant point anyway. This a jam space, not a mastering facility.
> 
> DIY Speaker Kits & Parts | Speaker Hardware
> 
> http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/


----------



## KapnKrunch

I spent the morning trying get an MP3 up on YouTube, but I give up. Not the interested in DropBox, toonstotube, or other third party hoops-to-jump-through. If anyone is interested in how the acoustic environment turned out, I can send an MP3 of the last band practice. Just PM me with your email address.

I am 100% satisfied with the results of my room dimensions and added treatment.

Here's how the recording of the room was done (very technical, lol):


----------



## Frenchy99

Congrats on an amazing project !

Nice to see someone really enjoying his retirement !


----------



## KapnKrunch

@Frenchy99 thanks for going thru it. I had fun following your progress with all the "likes".


----------



## Frenchy99

KapnKrunch said:


> @Frenchy99 thanks for going thru it. I had fun following your progress with all the "likes".



Great post ! Great read !

Made me learn lots !!!

Also made me realise that I needed to study a little bit more on the subject !

Big thanks for sharing your time and knowledge ! 

PS: Love that 600 watts amp and sub !!!


----------



## Guitar101

Guitar101 said:


> Good luck firing up that wood stove when your practicing. That will drive you right out of the place or all of your door's and windows will have to be open. Good luck with it though. The place is looking pretty nice.


So I just have to ask. I posted this way back in the thread. How did the fireplace work out?


----------



## KapnKrunch

Guitar101 said:


> So I just have to ask. I posted this way back in the thread. How did the fireplace work out?


As expected. 

Has to be watched very closely. Small fire of short duration only. A half dozen sticks of softwood twice a day was perfect in cold weather. Haven't lit it for a week. 

Nice when the power goes out, we take the tablets and kettle to the garage.


----------



## KapnKrunch

The band is gone for the summer, and the new preamp from London Power has replaced three amps.


----------



## MarkM

Awesome build, great place to retire!


----------



## Steadfastly

Very nice space Kap'n! The first thing i notices was how clean and uncluttered it looks, yet there is plenty of gear in their. Some good thinking/planning went into this. Enjoy!


----------



## player99

Without reading every post do you have a humidifier to counter the woodstove?


----------



## Steadfastly

player99 said:


> Without reading every post do you have a humidifier to counter the woodstove?


Yes. But I would think that any heating system is similar with baseboard heating perhaps a little worse as there is no fan with that system.


----------



## KapnKrunch

player99 said:


> Without reading every post do you have a humidifier to counter the woodstove?


I have the acoustic instruments in the house. Electrics are kept in cases with humidifiers. I just said to my wife this week: "it's ridiculous, all the money I have spent and I don't have a humidifier." So that's on the list for the next trip into town. Then I won't have to put them away every afternoon. 

It's a long thread to read, and I made my share of dumb comments during the build, but here's all you really need to know: 

http://www.roletech.net/books/HandbookAcoustics.pdf


----------



## player99

KapnKrunch said:


> I have the acoustic instruments in the house. Electrics are kept in cases with humidifiers. I just said to my wife this week: "it's ridiculous, all the money I have spent and I don't have a humidifier." So that's on the list for the next trip into town. Then I won't have to put them away every afternoon.
> 
> It's a long thread to read, and I made my share of dumb comments during the build, but here's all you really need to know:
> 
> http://www.roletech.net/books/HandbookAcoustics.pdf


I get them from Factory Direct. They are selling for $100, but I get email alerts and occasionally they sell for $80 with the email coupon. The filters cost about $23 tax in at Can Tire. The unit has 2 bigger removable plastic reservoirs and they can go for 24hrs to a few days depending on the setting.

HOLMES COOL MIST HUMIDIFIER FOR LARGE ROOMS UP TO 2000 SQ FT


----------



## player99

Steadfastly said:


> Yes. But I would thing that any heating system is similar with baseboard heating perhaps a little worse as there is no fan with that system.


What do you mean? A woodstove will dry out wood and guitars really bad.


----------



## Steadfastly

player99 said:


> What do you mean? A woodstove will dry out wood and guitars really bad.


Heat is heat. It depends how close a guitar is to the heat source. Most decent wood stoves have a fan in them so the heat is moved throughout the home. With baseboard heaters, there is no air movement so the so has hot spots and that means drier spots. It can occur with a wood stove but not if the guitars are not close to the heat source and better yet if the wood stove has a fan in it. 

With all that said, it is always best to have a humidifier, not only for the guitars and wooden furniture but we feel more comfortable when the home is not dry and takes less heat to make us feel warmer.


----------



## player99

Steadfastly said:


> Heat is heat. It depends how close a guitar is to the heat source. Most decent wood stoves have a fan in them so the heat is moved throughout the home. With baseboard heaters, there is no air movement so the so has hot spots and that means drier spots. It can occur with a wood stove but not if the guitars are not close to the heat source and better yet if the wood stove has a fan in it.
> 
> With all that said, it is always best to have a humidifier, not only for the guitars and wooden furniture but we feel more comfortable when the home is not dry and takes less heat to make us feel warmer.


I have been heating with wood since about 1990. Not sure about yourself but fan or no fan wood heat will get the humidity down to 7% in rooms where the stove is not located. So in my opinion humidification is a must with wood heat. Unless you can teach me some trick that would save me from having to humidify my house all winter. I keep things pretty good here and usually I don't have to adjust the necks in the fall and the spring like I used to.


----------



## Steadfastly

player99 said:


> I have been heating with wood since about 1990. Not sure about yourself but fan or no fan wood heat will get the humidity down to 7% in rooms where the stove is not located. So in my opinion humidification is a must with wood heat. Unless you can teach me some trick that would save me from having to humidify my house all winter. I keep things pretty good here and usually I don't have to adjust the necks in the fall and the spring like I used to.


I think you misunderstand. I don't mean that wood heating doesn't dry out the air. All heating does, but what I said was baseboard heating is worse as you get no air movement and humidity is lower the closer you are to a hear source. I heat with wood but I don't need as much humidification in rooms away from the wood stove. I also have ceiling fans throughout my home, so things are much more even with the room with the wood stove not getting overly hot.

What is important is RH (relative humidity). That is humidity relative to the temperature.


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## KapnKrunch

Nice set-up for demo's and solo practice. Record to tape or computer or both. Play bass-pedals, guitar and sing from control area. Start drum machine (& midi) with foot when used. Pair of mic's record the actual performance of the PA and amps. 

All I need now is talent. 










Not much room left for those slackers that I call bandmates. They can find somewhere else for their gear to sit unused. Lol. 

No comments about the Bonfire of Contention please -- it's got my back! Humidifier installed. Guitars as far away as possible.


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## Guitar101

KapnKrunch said:


> Nice set-up for demo's and solo practice. Record to tape or computer or both. Play bass-pedals, guitar and sing from control area. Start drum machine (& midi) with foot when used. Pair of mic's record the actual performance of the PA and amps.
> 
> All I need now is talent.
> 
> View attachment 289336
> 
> 
> Not much room left for those slackers that I call bandmates. They can find somewhere else for their gear to sit unused. Lol.
> 
> No comments about the Bonfire of Contention please -- it's got my back! Humidifier installed. Guitars as far away as possible.
> 
> View attachment 289338


The fire looks great and keeps you warm in winter. It might provide the inspiration to learn some of these songs.

Light My Fire - The Doors
We Didn't Start the Fire - Billy Joel
Great Balls of Fire - Jerry Lee Lewis
Ring of Fire - Johnny Cash
Crossfire - Stevie Ray Vaughan

Have fun. Your music room is inspiring me to get off my ass and do a little recording.


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## KapnKrunch

Guitar101 said:


> The fire looks great and keeps you warm in winter. It might provide the inspiration to learn some of these songs.


"Your glance: a match on my tinderwood."


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## blueshores_guy

Something you might consider for humidification is just a pot of water sitting on your stove. Move it around a bit so that it doesn't boil furiously; you just want some steam coming off it. Saves electricity.
And if you're recording on your computer and still having difficulty posting the results, try Soundcloud. It's easy to use, and will accept .wav files, which aren't nearly as compressed as mp3's.
I got off Soundclick and onto Soundcloud a long time ago.


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## KapnKrunch

blueshores_guy said:


> Something you might consider for humidification is just a pot of water sitting on your stove. Move it around a bit so that it doesn't boil furiously; you just want some steam coming off it. Saves electricity.
> And if you're recording on your computer and still having difficulty posting the results, try Soundcloud. It's easy to use, and will accept .wav files, which aren't nearly as compressed as mp3's.
> I got off Soundclick and onto Soundcloud a long time ago.


I tried the pot if water last year and it couldn't keep up. The fire is used sparingly. I am an expert in ruining guitars with wood heat, and therefore also an expert in NOT ruining guitars with wood heat. Lol.

Yup. I am on Soundcloud. It works great, but its been so long, I need to re-learn. Maybe today...


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## KapnKrunch

Everything within reach now. Best set-up so far.


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## KapnKrunch

The Roland Fantom added yesterday. Virtually a studio within a studio. 

"Analog/Acoustic" section up front. Just swing the room mic's around and turn on the reel-to-reel.

"Digital/Electric" world behind. Record to tape and/or computer with the same connections.

All guitars thru the Stephenson now -- it's just that good. A Radial ABY BigShot lets me go straight into the amp, or else bypass the Stephenson preamp section and route into the London Power preamp which feeds the Stephenson power section via the EFFECTS RETURN. I can use either preamp or both at the same time. Van Amps reverb made to match the plum tolex. And a Stephenson Stage Hog for second layers or alternate distortion.

Also new is the backdrop for making videos. Unfortunately the curtain makes the room too dead by blocking the diffusion hidden behind the burlap screen, but good enough for YouTube. So it stays rolled up.


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## sambonee

With the slab price and all, how much was this sweet spot? It’s so well done. !!


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## KapnKrunch

sambonee said:


> With the slab price and all, how much was this sweet spot? It’s so well done. !!


$20,000+/- (not counting any gear). 

[The acoustic treatment is all DYI. The pair of mic's can be placed anywhere in the room with the same basic "audible" results. But on the other hand, sometimes when listening to playback on headphones, I am startled by something behind me or beside me -- this is just the stereo imaging placing the footsteps or chair-creak exactly "where it was made" in the room. Every minute I spent studying acoustic behaviour, while I languished with Lyme disease, was worth it.]


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## vadsy

is that bare concrete? how does that play on the acoustics and sound of the room?


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## KapnKrunch

vadsy said:


> is that bare concrete? how does that play on the acoustics and sound of the room?


It seems to have no effect on room modes (basically a neutral room by design) or reverb times. Tried a large rug. Tripping hazard. Removed it. Zero difference in this room to my ears - as predicted by calculations.

However, all materials make a difference when it comes to bass trapping. Reference an acoustic manual for this info, @vadsy, it ain't simple -- room modes and reverb are simpler calculations.


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