# Plek



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Anyone ever had a guitar plek’d at Cosmo ?

I have a LP Junior that was plek’d at the factory and every note plays clean with lowish action.

I have a Telecaster that has a lot of notes dulling out on the frets even though the relief is fine and the action is highish but tolerable. It’s higher than Fender speck and it’s higher than the LP.

To get it clean I’d need to raise the action a good bit from where it is so I was wondering if having it plek’d might work out.

Thanks.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

The way I see it is if you get any guitar plek'd it should play better then before.
The Plek machine also cuts a new nut which I think is the key to getting all the frets working properly.

I dont know if a good guitar tech can do as good a job as the Plek machine but I guess it would depend on the teck.
Another consideration would be the cost of a Plek job versus your favorite teck.
What does Cosmo charge for a Plek job?
G.


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

IMO a good guitar tech can do a better job than a Plek machine.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2017)

During a pleking + setup I was told I had to change from 9-42 to 10-46 and I would have to change string brands. I was also told an electric guitar could not play chords and lead well. One or the other. The main issues I brought the guitar in for were still there when I got it back. The nut was also too low. I have been playing for 35 + years and know quite a bit about guitars, so I was taken back by what I was told. This guitar is a Gibson and my main player. I never changed string gauge or brand. The guitar was good, but with the nut and high string issues it is disappointing. I changed the nut which helped. I may invest in the tools required to do my own.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

This is an L&M Blog from August 2017.

PLEK: The Best Your Guitar Can Be

This PLEK computer screen shot is fascinating...










L&M PLEK Services 

PLEK services are provided through Yorkville Sound in Pickering Ontario. For locations not on the Yorkville truck route, shipping costs must be paid by the customer and insurance should be offered at 3% of the replacement value of the instrument. Instruments should be shipped to Yorkville in Pickering and marked ATTN: PLEK. A Repair-RTS to Yorkville must be created for the RP, even if it is not a Yorkville product; no RA# is needed. Unless otherwise requested, it will be assumed that all instruments are being played in standard tuning, and will be optimized for the Shop Spec Action listed on the following page. If the customer uses an alternate tuning or action, it must be listed in the problem description. An initial scan is required for all instruments in addition to the selected service, the appropriate SKUs should be added to the RP before the item is shipped. Yorkville will only perform the SKU’d services added to the bill. Notes regarding non-PLEK services will be ignored if not specifically marked as “BY YORKVILLE”. Service Price Model# SKU Initial Scan (Required) $40 PLEK/SCAN 0493643 Fret Level & Crown Add $140 PLEK/FRETLEVEL 0496501 Fingerboard Level (For fretless instruments) Add $130 PLEK/FRETBOARD 0496500 New nut from blank Add $140 PLEK/NUT 0496502 ***Prices do not include a complete setup*** Fret & Fingerboard PLEK fret and fingerboard services include basic adjustments to the neck and bridge but do not include a complete setup. It is strongly recommended that a complete setup is done following the PLEK service, this should be completed by a local tech at the appropriate fixed rate after the guitar has been returned to the store. Nut Shaping & Slotting New nuts will be made from a bone blank unless otherwise requested. Removal of the old nut is included, cosmetic touch-up is not included. A setup is required and should be performed by a local technician at the appropriate fixed rate after the guitar has been returned. A flyer with info on the benefits of Plek service can be found on the repairs page of the intranet Questions about PLEK services can be sent to Jeremy Berger at [email protected]


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Player99 said:


> During a pleking + setup I was told I had to change from 9-42 to 10-46 and I would have to change string brands. I was also told an electric guitar could not play chords and lead well. One or the other. The main issues I brought the guitar in for were still there when I got it back. The nut was also too low. I have been playing for 35 + years and know quite a bit about guitars, so I was taken back by what I was told. This guitar is a Gibson and my main player. I never changed string gauge or brand. The guitar was good, but with the nut and high string issues it is disappointing. I changed the nut which helped. I may invest in the tools required to do my own.


That's just bizarre. Maybe they meant that a guitar setup for lead (amp & pedal settings) won't sound good playing chords? I have guitars with both gauges and prefer the 9s.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

1SweetRide said:


> That's just bizarre.


Agreed. Shouldn't good guitars be able to be setup with a range of string gauges? Billy Gibbons plays all kinds of guitars and puts 8's on them! 

On the "chords vs lead" thing, I wonder if the tech was talking about intonation and how no stringed instrument can be perfectly in tune for all keys due to temperament. In that case, a guitar can be intonated and tuned so that open chords sound the best, but then some intervals higher up the neck might sound a bit off. It's the reason you see products like the Earvana nut or tuner pedals with "sweetened" tunings. But seriously, is it that big of a deal? The greats have been able to play the same guitar switching from lead to rhythm for ages, so while it might not be "perfect" you should be able to get a "great" setup in spite of this. I've noticed this most profoundly on the G string when going between minor thirds, major thirds, and fifths, but when performing live who is going to be able to tell? And when recording, just adjust the G string for that bit.

Perhaps the tech was trying to manage your expectations a little too hard, letting you know that your guitar was being setup by a computer but still would not be perfect. But the string thing... that's weird. Some people just don't like heavier strings.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Yea, I sure hope Zak's guitar was plek'd. May not have been perfectly intonated, and wouldn't that be a shame ..........


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Comes down to the guy running the PLEK machine. Supposedly there is an "auto" or default feature that many shops and one notable manufacturer use to get the guitar close'ish. A skilled tech can supposedly leverage more of the machine's potential to get more out of it. I asked about a local PLEK shop as you have done and got zero response so I didn't bother trying it out. Search PLEK and NAMM in some of the other forums for more info.


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2017)

1SweetRide said:


> That's just bizarre. Maybe they meant that a guitar setup for lead (amp & pedal settings) won't sound good playing chords? I have guitars with both gauges and prefer the 9s.


They meant the setup would suck for one or the other..., or explaining why it sucked. The guitar was plek'd twice because of how off it was.


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## Jimi D (Oct 27, 2008)

BSTheTech said:


> Comes down to the guy running the PLEK machine. Supposedly there is an "auto" or default feature that many shops and one notable manufacturer use to get the guitar close'ish. A skilled tech can supposedly leverage more of the machine's potential to get more out of it. I asked about a local PLEK shop as you have done and got zero response so I didn't bother trying it out. Search PLEK and NAMM in some of the other forums for more info.


This is my understanding of the process as well. Sending your guitar off to be PLEKd in some other town wouldn't give results any better than you find on an off-the-wall Gibson the way I see it. You need to talk to tech who's running the thing and set your needs and expectations with him. Ultimately, a good luthier &/or tech with a PLEK should always be able to provide better results than one without a PLEK, as the machine gives them more information and tools to work with to create the perfect setup; it offers knowledge and tools we don't have at our disposal otherwise...


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Wardo said:


> Anyone ever had a guitar plek’d at Cosmo ?
> 
> I have a LP Junior that was plek’d at the factory and every note plays clean with lowish action.
> 
> ...


while a plek might help. it's probably not the only problem you are having, from what you are describing in your post. 



tonewoody said:


> IMO a good guitar tech can do a better job than a Plek machine.


your opinion is wrong. i know that's blunt, and i don't mean to sound rude. but it's the truth - sort of. a plek job all by itself is not going to magically cure all the ills wrong with a guitar. it's completely pointless w/o a good set up, which has to be done by hand. anyone who can read a ruler and use basic hand tools is capable of doing a great set-up. there is zero magic to it, and the skills required are the most basic. i could teach a 5th grader to do set ups as good as any tech you ever met in your life, in an afternoon. what separates the men from the boys when it comes to guitar techs is not set up work. it's everything else. you should learn to do your own set ups. if you did, you would already know what i posted is actual and factual.


having your neck pleck'd allows for some pretty fine adjustments to your set up. it will allow lower action than any other way. a guitar with a good set up will play nice. a plek'd guitar with a good set up will play better, 100% of the time. because of the cost, i wouldn't plek a guitar with soft frets. the plek job won't last as long. the modern gibby's with the cryogenically treated frets last longer, and come plek'd from the factory. that will last a loooong time. (not counting the nut, of course) if you were to plek a guitar with s.s. frets, and properly install a roller nut, you'd never have have to touch the neck ever again, in your lifetime. in most cases.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

cheezyridr said:


> while a plek might help. it's probably not the only problem you are having, from what you are describing in your post.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think if you were able to interact with the person doing the plek job to get specifics about your particular setup that a plek could do a phenomenal job at getting exactly what you want. I've had several guitars that I bought new that were plek'd. Everyone of them needed some fine tune adjustment from my guitar tech. But very minute adjustments. Much closer than the way guitars used to be before they were being plek'd.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I spoke to a tech at Cosmo today so it's $200 to do the initial scan, then level and crown and the nut slots also. Then set up but they owe me one from when I bought the guitar. He was saying if it needed to have the board done as well they would just give me a new neck on warranty but I don't think it's that bad probably just frets not level and do the nut. Also, they don't just use the default setting on the machine so I'll talk about all that with them when I get there.

Like others have mentioned, I also think it comes down to who is operating the machine and they do enough work at Cosmo that they should be pretty good at it plus I'm there quite a bit talking to them about other things and I get the impression that the staff there are dedicated to what they do.

I had initially set it up according to the specs that came with the owner's manual and that made for a nice action height although the nut slots are too high and the G was going very sharp at the 2nd fret so the open D and A chords were nasty - it was a compromise getting it tuned half-assed decent. Hopefully they can fix that up.

I raised the action a bit to clean it up but it needs to go more in order to play clean enough so I'm gonna put it back to spec and see if they can get it dialed in for that height. 

Apparently Fender's are notorious for leaving the factory and needing fret work but whatever; it's a real nice guitar and if I can get to play as clean as the Dreaded 100 then that'll be great.

Thanks for all the responses, it was useful to have that information before discussing this with the tech dude.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> I think if you were able to interact with the person doing the plek job to get specifics about your particular setup that a plek could do a phenomenal job at getting exactly what you want. I've had several guitars that I bought new that were plek'd. Everyone of them needed some fine tune adjustment from my guitar tech. But very minute adjustments. Much closer than the way guitars used to be before they were being plek'd.


i agree 100%. those adjustments you needed though, were st up adjustments, not adjustments to the plek job. plek is _consistent_ precision beyond what a human is capable of, _consistently_. i also agree that plek'd guitars play better. science wins again, eh? interacting with the tech is crucial if you want personal results, plek or no plek. you can go to floyd the barber and get a number 3, or you can go to a hair salon and get a personalized look from a stylist. you choose your level of involvement, the results reflect that choice, or anywhere in between.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

cheezyridr said:


> i wouldn't plek a guitar with soft frets. the plek job won't last as long.


Are you saying "PLEK jobs are expensive, so don't waste your money on a guitar with frets that wear out faster than cryogenically treated frets or stainless steel frets"? Or are you saying "PLEK jobs on soft frets don't last as long as a traditional fret level and crown"?

I just had a look at L&M's prices, and a fret level and crown by a normal tech is $130, but to get it done by the PLEK machine is $40 for the initial scan + $140... not too much more. Considering the PLEK probably removes the least amount of fret material possible, I wonder if it might actually extend your fret life.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

troyhead said:


> Are you saying "PLEK jobs are expensive, so don't waste your money on a guitar with frets that wear out faster than cryogenically treated frets or stainless steel frets"? Or are you saying "PLEK jobs on soft frets don't last as long as a traditional fret level and crown"?
> 
> I just had a look at L&M's prices, and a fret level and crown by a normal tech is $130, but to get it done by the PLEK machine is $40 for the initial scan + $140... not too much more. Considering the PLEK probably removes the least amount of fret material possible, I wonder if it might actually extend your fret life.


maybe if it's a nylon strung acoustic it could be no big deal. but if the fret wears faster, the difference you get from a plek won't last as long. the price difference you mention is about 28%. that's nearly a third more for something that won't last as long. to me, that's too much difference to justify, but not everyone may agree


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

cheezyridr said:


> a guitar with a good set up will play nice. a plek'd guitar with a good set up will play better, 100% of the time.


Get a better tech.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

tonewoody said:


> Get a better tech.


when you say things like this you reveal that you don't know what you're talking about. or maybe gandalf or harry potter is your tech? because here on planet earth, it would take a magician to receive better results from less precision. as i told you in my previous post, you should learn how to do your own set ups. it's literally the ability to read a ruler, and use a screwdriver. something any 5th grade child can do. you can continue to believe in magic if you wish. however, if you don't have any idea what you're talking about, posting on forums and giving bad advice serves no one, and makes you look foolish to people who actually know the subject being discussed. at the very least, post the information that indicates i am wrong. otherwise, you're just shit posting.
regardless of what you may think of me, i am sure there are people on this forum whom you trust to be knowledgeable. have you noticed that not a single one of them has had anything at all to say contrary to what i have told you? not a single one of them has come along to say "woah, hold on there cheezy, that's incorrect because ..." that should be a clue for ya.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

I don't mean to offend but it is widely accepted that dumbledore was a better guitar tech than Gandalf.


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

cheezyridr said:


> when you say things like this you reveal that you don't know what you're talking about. or maybe gandalf or harry potter is your tech? because here on planet earth, it would take a magician to receive better results from less precision. as i told you in my previous post, you should learn how to do your own set ups. it's literally the ability to read a ruler, and use a screwdriver. something any 5th grade child can do. you can continue to believe in magic if you wish. however, if you don't have any idea what you're talking about, posting on forums and giving bad advice serves no one, and makes you look foolish to people who actually know the subject being discussed. at the very least, post the information that indicates i am wrong. otherwise, you're just shit posting.
> regardless of what you may think of me, i am sure there are people on this forum whom you trust to be knowledgeable. have you noticed that not a single one of them has had anything at all to say contrary to what i have told you? not a single one of them has come along to say "woah, hold on there cheezy, that's incorrect because ..." that should be a clue for ya.


Seriously, think about this.

How much 'better' are we talking about? Not enough to make bold dramatic statements....

Let's say you took a guitar to Joe Glaser in Nashville....

Scenario A: Glaser does a setup using hand tools
Scenario B: Glaser does a setup using the Plek system

In terms of percentage, how much more 'playable' will the Plek'ed guitar be?


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

A few years back, I went by Westwood Music in L.A. to have a bass checked out by a friend who works there. He was working on a guitar and showed me the Plek process.....the before, machine set up, the actual process, and the after set up. Very cool indeed and very good results.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

tonewoody said:


> Seriously, think about this.
> 
> How much 'better' are we talking about? Not enough to make bold dramatic statements....
> 
> ...


joe might have really good eyes. but can he produce consistent tolerances as tight as ten thousanths of an inch? no. he's a human. in speaking of percentages, *you do have a point*, sort of. 
a player of my lowly caliber may not ever be able to tell the difference between what someone super-talented is capable of (when they want to be really precise)
but you wont see the kind of talent those big named guys have, when you go to L&M or somewhere similar. however, we should clarify that what a plek machine does, is not part of a set-up.
i do my own set ups, and i can do them as well as anyone else can. what a plek does, is allow you to achieve better results when you do a set up, because every fret is exactly where it should be in relation to every other fret. every fret is perfectly crowned and leveled. the nut is precisely slotted to the correct size, depth, and spacing. the neck is scanned to produce a very precise amount of relief. none of that comes with a standard set up.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

What’s it cost to have the Nashville super dude do it.

What’s it cost to have it plek’d by a competent shop. About 200.

I can swing the 200 and taxes but I ain’t goin to Nashville.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Wardo said:


> What’s it cost to have the Nashville super dude do it.
> 
> What’s it cost to have it plek’d by a competent shop. About 200.
> 
> I can swing the 200 and taxes but I ain’t goin to Nashville.



why not? you already have the perfect hat for it! long as you don't say "eh" at the end of your sentences, they'd never know you are canuck! hahahahah


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

cheezyridr said:


> why not? you already have the perfect hat for it! long as you don't say "eh" at the end of your sentences, they'd never know you are canuck! hahahahah


The rents moved north after the Tet Offensive. Being about 10 at the time I didn’t have much say in the matter ...lol


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I agree that the PLEK is a wonderful piece of technology. Able to be accurate withing thousandths of an inch. But I have a few questions. Genuine ones, because I really don't know for sure.

I have heard it reported that Plek machines do the nut slots perfectly parallel to the fret board as it cannot angle them deeper on the headstock side and that there may be issues with that with. Giving unwanted noise and not supporting the string properly with an edge on the finger board side. Has anyone found this who has a plek'd guitar?

If you fret a string, just enough to produce a note, and then squeeze a bit tighter, you can hear the note sharpen. So having the frets dressed so perfectly is kind of redundant anyway, isn't it? Unless you can fret with the perfect pressure, every time, does the accuracy not get lost in the process anyway? 

Noting of course that the guitar is a remarkably imperfect instrument to begin with (and for the life of me I can't remember the technical term for it, but it has to do with how the notes come out imperfect as opposed to a piano where the note is the note and not affected by anything other than gauge and a static tension....and I may also be giving a bad example here too, sorry) and those imperfections are what gives it it's character. I mean really, if you wanted perfect notes every time, wouldn't you be playing something that put out pure sine waves? and wouldn't that sound kind of sterile?

Just some thoughts and questions on the matter.



Edit: Tempered...........that's the term I was groping for in the bracketed section.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

the nut on my LP did in fact need slight attention when i bought it. maybe what you heard is correct. i don't actually know. at the time i bought it, i did not have any of the knowledge i have now, so someone else did the work. it was almost 4 yrs ago. i don't remember what the problem was, just that my tech went over it while he was doing other work.

having the frets perfectly level means the string will ring as best as it is able to, at any point on the board. i don't *think* it has anything to do with the accuracy of the note, except in a way that a slightly higher fret further up the board might, if it was not properly leveled.

the accuracy of the plek does not affect the neck's overall intonation_ afaik_. what it can do, is play chords anywhere on the neck without fretting out or buzzing, or play bends even while having the action lower than you would normally see that kind of performance. while some people would be more comfortable with the action higher, with a plek it is no longer necessary. having the nut cut to the proper depth is foundational to the action. get it wrong, and everything below it is affected. it _can_ have an effect on the intonation, but i am not exactly clear on exactly how it works.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

cheezyridr said:


> the nut on my LP did in fact need slight attention when i bought it. maybe what you heard is correct. i don't actually know. at the time i bought it, i did not have any of the knowledge i have now, so someone else did the work. it was almost 4 yrs ago. i don't remember what the problem was, just that my tech went over it while he was doing other work.


Yeah, that's what I heard somewhere. The machine can go up or down, or side to side, or in and out (x. y, and z axis), but only one at a time or something like that. It must be able to move side to side and in and out at the same time to get the radius for the frets, but I recall hearing about the limitation on it's nut cutting. Not sure where I heard it, but someone was commenting on the job the plek does on the nut.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Have you checked that the frets are well-seated? Could some be loose or in need of the superglue treatment?


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2017)

I had plek nuts once. My doctor gave me penicillin.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Thanks for mentioning the nut cutting.

As far as I know you are supposed to file them parallel to the headstock angle so they don’t make noises.

I would expect the machine would get that right but I’m gonna ask about it because setting the nut slot with the files if you have them takes about 5 minutes and isn’t a big deal to do as opposed to levelling the frets. You could have the machine level the frets and then do the nut manualy wouldn’t be a problem.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Player99 said:


> I had plek nuts once. My doctor gave me penicillin.


Penicillin ain’t the wonder drug that it once was; probably best to just have them removed so the condition doesn’t return and become chronic.


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2017)

Wardo said:


> Penicillin ain’t the wonder drug that it once was; probably best to just have them removed so the condition doesn’t return and become chronic.


Just because you did doesn't mean I am going to.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Player99 said:


> Just because you did doesn't mean I am going to.


That’s a lame ass presumption.

I never said I did I just figured it would be a good idea if you did and while you were at it took yourself out of the gene pool.

In any event, you seem to be nothing more than a troll and not an interesting one at that so I can’t be bothered with you and probably shouldn’t have responded to your post which admittedly was my mistake.


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2017)

Wardo said:


> That’s a lame ass presumption.
> 
> I never said I did I just figured it would be a good idea if you did and while you were at it took yourself out of the gene pool.
> 
> In any event, you seem to be nothing more than a troll and not an interesting one at that so I can’t be bothered with you and probably shouldn’t have responded to your post which admittedly was my mistake.


You should relax. This is not murika. You took my joke and tried to insult me, but I was able to deflect and now you're crying. I couldn't give 2 rat turds what does or doesn't interest you. If you want, I will gladly outplay you on guitar, as I easily outplayed you here. Post your playing and I will answer your post. Other than that, have a nice day.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Player99 said:


> You should relax. This is not murika. You took my joke and tried to insult me, but I was able to deflect and now you're crying. I couldn't give 2 rat turds what does or doesn't interest you. If you want, I will gladly outplay you on guitar, as I easily outplayed you here. Post your playing and I will answer your post. Other than that, have a nice day.


Lmao ... looks like hatred is all you have to live on.


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

Do you really need frets levelled to within 1/10,000's of an inch? 

I've owned both Pleked guitars and guitars fret levelled by good luthiers. They all played well. I remember getting my first Pleked guitar, I was pretty excited. I expected some new level of playability but the reality was the Plek didn't surpass what I had been playing for years.

The Plek is a cool deal, no doubt about it. If you have ever levelled and crowned frets manually you can see how appealing it is to have a 'fret machine'. 

Finding a 'good' luthier is important. Experience, skills, and talent are big factors. Even better if the luthier is an accomplished guitar player who appreciates the finer details. Pay the money, treat them right. 

Plek or Luthier? 
All things equal, (skilled Plek tech, skilled luthier) I'd say your guitar will end up playing about the same. Of course the luthier will have the edge on the final setup.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

tonewoody said:


> Do you really need frets levelled to within 1/10,000's of an inch?
> 
> I've owned both Pleked guitars and guitars fret levelled by good luthiers. They all played well. I remember getting my first Pleked guitar, I was pretty excited. I expected some new level of playability but the reality was the Plek didn't surpass what I had been playing for years.
> 
> ...


In my case I don't know any luthiers at all but I would expect that the cost of having a good one do the work would be more than having it plek'd.

I'm not looking for perfect I just want it improved a lot from what it is and this seems the easiest way to go.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

cheezyridr said:


> joe might have really good eyes. but can he produce consistent tolerances as tight as ten thousanths of an inch?


Your not a tool maker, right? Must not be because if so you’d understand how small .0001 of an inch is and that guitars and measurements so small are incompatible. Tolerances held can only be as accurate as the rigidity of the substrate (guitar), fixturing, tooling, machine/spindle, etc. A plek may have capability to work accurately, but maybe within .001” but certainly not .0001”.

In most cases, equally great setups can be had by a skilled luthier and a Plek... but fret work is tedious and that skilled luthier can only do so many in a day without burning out while the Plek doesn’t tire in the same sense. So while that skilled luthier can produce one comparable fret dress in a day, the Plek can produce ten.

So if demand is high enough, then a Plek makes business and quality control sense to serve the high demand. But don’t think that a comparable job is not attainable with hand skills... they are, just not at the same output level every day all day.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

Wardo said:


> In my case I don't know any luthiers at all but I would expect that the cost of having a good one do the work would be more than having it plek'd.
> 
> I'm not looking for perfect I just want it improved a lot from what it is and this seems the easiest way to go.


At some point you need to have a professional assess your guitar and determine what the real issue is. Is it one high fret?, poorly cut nut ? etc.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

dradlin said:


> Your not a tool maker, right? Must not be because if so you’d understand how small .0001 of an inch is and that guitars and measurements so small are incompatible. Tolerances held can only be as accurate as the rigidity of the substrate (guitar), fixturing, tooling, machine/spindle, etc. A plek may have capability to work accurately, but maybe within .001” but certainly not .0001”.


as a sheetmetal worker, i do not have to work with tolerances like that, but when i worked in a machine shop for the dupont company, i did. i understand first hand what it means to work with tolerances like that. i recognize what you are trying to say but it's a specious argument. citation at this link, read the first 2 paragraphs. they are claiming a tolerance slightly less than i mentioned

http://sfguitarworks.com/the-plek/


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

cheezyridr said:


> as a sheetmetal worker, i do not have to work with tolerances like that, but when i worked in a machine shop for the dupont company, i did. i understand first hand what it means to work with tolerances like that. i recognize what you are trying to say but it's a specious argument. citation at this link, read the first 2 paragraphs. they are claiming a tolerance slightly less than i mentioned
> 
> The PLEK


Don’t believe every claim that you read... and even if a machine is repeatable to .0001” that doesn’t mean that it can produce repeatable results in a non-rigid guitar.




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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I'm just reading,, observing, and learning about the Plek. Fun reading this thread. When I checked out the Plek arlier, I did see a video on Youtube regarding the issue with the plek not getting the angle of the nut because it does everything parallel. I'll assume that that is where a good Luthier or tech would step in to finish up the job properly. Best of both worlds IMO. Get the machine precision for the main part that takes a shitload of time by hand, and get the experienced artisan to finish her off. Personally I'd suggest taking it to a Luthier if possible first, just to see if it needs that type of work done to it. I do understand if you don't know one or a Luthier isn't in your area though.


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2017)

I bought pre-slotted bone nuts from Next Gen Guitar for about $6 each. I put a new one in my SG because after it was Plek'd the pleker had filed them too low. My buddy put it in in about 15 minutes. He did some very minimal filing and it sounds and works great. So for L&M to charge $140 for a Plek'd nut seems a little crazy to me.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Another issue for the newer Gibsons which occurred (allegedly) because of the PLEK was the use of Corian nuts. They're larger, harder, and placed deeper than Standard nuts and appear to be a bit of a nightmare to remove. Gibson's fix is to mill down the top, and glue on a new piece, then re-cut it. Requires a return to the factory (maybe an authorized PLEK shop). Well done Gibson.


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2017)

My buddy popped out the old nut. I think he my have warmed it up briefly with a heat gun. The new nut fit in nice and tight, no glue required. He wanted it that way. A but of filing and sanding to get the perfect fit. Then some very minimal file work and it is perfect. My friend is an amazing builder repair guy so it looked pretty easy.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Just on my way out, but this video looks like what we're discussing. Explains the PLEK and the nut issues.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

dradlin said:


> Don’t believe every claim that you read... and even if a machine is repeatable to .0001” that doesn’t mean that it can produce repeatable results in a non-rigid guitar.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



so, you are saying that the guitar is moving during the process? because i assert that it is not. the ONLY way it would be unable to achieve the accuracy claimed, would be if the neck moved in process. that's just how physical laws work. you are welcome to your own opinion, but you cannot have your own facts. if you don't want to believe me, believe your own wizard tech, joe glazer:






plek has a bunch of videos explaining all this stuff. i don't pull it out of my ass, i'm relaying factual information. if you want to believe in harry potter that's your business. i will believe in repeatable results, logic, and actual facts


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2017)

cheezyridr said:


> so, you are saying that the guitar is moving during the process? because i assert that it is not. the ONLY way it would be unable to achieve the accuracy claimed, would be if the neck moved in process. that's just how physical laws work. you are welcome to your own opinion, but you cannot have your own facts. if you don't want to believe me, believe your own wizard tech, joe glazer:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As soon as the neck is out of the stockade it is free to move, and all the .00000001 accuracy is out the window.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

are guitars made with cnc machines also always better?

I'm trying to choose which side of skynet to land on here.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

cheezyridr said:


> so, you are saying that the guitar is moving during the process? because i assert that it is not. the ONLY way it would be unable to achieve the accuracy claimed, would be if the neck moved in process. that's just how physical laws work. you are welcome to your own opinion, but you cannot have your own facts. if you don't want to believe me, believe your own wizard tech, joe glazer:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


With 25 years experience designing machine tools, CNC machines, workholding fixtures and now 7 years as a full time guitar tech (some say luthier) I can assert with authority that producing results repeatable and measurable within .0001” (or even a few) is impossible. A guitar neck is just too flexible. Jig a neck and setup up with dial indicators and you will see how slight pressure can move the neck.

Don’t get me wrong... Plek is a capable and valuable machine... but when people start throwing measurements in 1/10000 of an inch around that’s just ignorant. Sorry. Let’s keep it real.

And by the way... a hair varies in thickness, but they are around .005”, so a Plek damn well better be able to detect it (as shown in linked video)... and .0001” is fifty times smaller than .005” to give you some perspective.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

earlier in this thread joe glazer was the be all end all of guitar techs, and now that he supports what i said, his word means jack. you guys are too funny


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

cheezyridr said:


> earlier in this thread joe glazer was the be all end all of guitar techs, and now that he supports what i said, his word means jack. you guys are too funny


I’ve met Joe, super nice guy and major respect for him. He is financially connected with Plek, so understand his bias. I don’t think you’ll find a reference of him saying a Plek is capable to 1/10000 of an inch.

I’m speaking from first hand personal professional experience, and again I’ll say capable to .001” likely, but no way .0001”. Believe whatever you want...


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

RBlakeney said:


> are guitars made with cnc machines also always better?
> 
> I'm trying to choose which side of skynet to land on here.


It would depend on the quality of the materials, not just that a CNC was used. *tosses open can of worms over his shoulder*


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Jim DaddyO said:


> I agree that the PLEK is a wonderful piece of technology. Able to be accurate withing thousandths of an inch. But I have a few questions. Genuine ones, because I really don't know for sure.
> 
> I have heard it reported that Plek machines do the nut slots perfectly parallel to the fret board as it cannot angle them deeper on the headstock side and that there may be issues with that with. Giving unwanted noise and not supporting the string properly with an edge on the finger board side. Has anyone found this who has a plek'd guitar?
> 
> ...



And then there is the fact that the neck will settle after being adjusted and that temperature and humidity can affect it. So while getting it done by the machine might be a good idea, how long is it going to last? And even if it stayed perfect, is it really necessary for guys who play at home or in bar bands to have a guitar set up within a thousandth of an inch?


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

colchar said:


> And then there is the fact that the neck will settle after being adjusted and that temperature and humidity can affect it. So while getting it done by the machine might be a good idea, how long is it going to last? And even if it stayed perfect, is it really necessary for guys who play at home or in bar bands to have a guitar set up within a thousandth of an inch?


you can get by without a car, but it sure is nice when you have one


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

Accordingly to the PLEK website there is only machine in Canada. Bruce Guitars located in Vancouver BC. 

If you have a guitar 'Plek'ed in Canada, no matter who the middle man is, it probably gets done at Bruce Guitars. Based on a casual glance at their Facebook page, people are pleased with their work. Their website seems to be down, not sure if it's a glitch or what. Notible is the semi-frequent 2 for 1 Plek special. Any two guitars for the price of one. 

If you want your guitar Pleked, maybe a call to Bruce Guitars would be the first one to make.


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

colchar said:


> And then there is the fact that the neck will settle after being adjusted and that temperature and humidity can affect it. So while getting it done by the machine might be a good idea, how long is it going to last? And even if it stayed perfect, is it really necessary for guys who play at home or in bar bands to have a guitar set up within a thousandth of an inch?


If a guitar is 'Plek'ed in BC and shipped elsewhere in Canada this is definately a factor.

Something else to consider, who is obsessing about these details? Many professionals demand 'only the best' but it's not uncommon to find pro's playing guitars that are badly intonated, poor frets, scary high action...and it's really not holding them back from their craft.


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2017)

tonewoody said:


> Accordingly to the PLEK website there is only machine in Canada. Bruce Guitars located in Vancouver BC.
> 
> If you have a guitar 'Plek'ed in Canada, no matter who the middle man is, it probably gets done at Bruce Guitars. Based on a casual glance at their Facebook page, people are pleased with their work. Their website seems to be down, not sure if it's a glitch or what. Notible is the semi-frequent 2 for 1 Plek special. Any two guitars for the price of one.
> 
> If you want your guitar Pleked, maybe a call to Bruce Guitars would be the first one to make.


There is a Plek in Kanata Ont. and Long & McQuade has one in Toronto.


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

Player99 said:


> There is a Plek in Kanata Ont. and Long & McQuade has one in Toronto.


Good info, I stand corrected.

You'd think if you bought a $100,000 Plek unit, the company would list you on their 'Get Pleked' contact page...


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## Ronbeast (Nov 11, 2008)

I didn’t read all of the thread, and I really don’t have a horse in this race. I think a skilled tech could produce more than satisfactory work; I’m also equally sure that PLEK is convenient, and I’ve had only good experiences with my PLEK’d guitars.

I have three “low end” Gibson’s that got the treatment, and they are strung very low; I have 9’s on my V and they are barely off the fretboard. My SGs take a setup equally as well, and that was enough for me to consider it a viable option. 

I’m a fan of the PLEK because the results are repeatable; not always perfect, but consistent like the Chinese restaurant down the road. I’ve met techs who suffered “The Monday’s” and “It’s 5 o’clock, Friday evening before the long weekend time”. Great quality setups when they bring their A game, but we’re all human.


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

tonewoody said:


> Accordingly to the PLEK website there is only machine in Canada. Bruce Guitars located in Vancouver BC.


Ian Weston at Weston Guitars in Ottawa has a Plek. L&M has one, and apparently (from earlier in this thread). Cosmo too now.

My money would go to Ian before any of those others. He’s personally invested and has both skills and extensive experience.

Plek can do a variety of tasks other than fret dressing. I had a project converting a fretted bass from fretless back to fretted, and sourced cutting the fret slots in the neck to Ian for the Plek to handle. It was a Fender vintage veneer type fingerboard and fret tags longer than the veneer was thick so I didn’t want the fret slots to run out the sides of the neck... the Plek was able to cut blind fret slots to produce a faux-binding feel. That’s a task I didn’t want to do by hand and Ian and the Plek did a perfect job.



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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

cheezyridr said:


> you can get by without a car, but it sure is nice when you have one



True, but you don't need a Ferrari for the morning school run now do you?


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

Enjoying the thread! Some good info and food for thought...


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## luker0 (Apr 18, 2017)

colchar said:


> True, but you don't need a Ferrari for the morning school run now do you?


You may be confusing need and want 

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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

I posted a question regarding Bruce Guitars several months back. Nothing but crickets...


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