# The Downfall of HD-DVD



## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

This is funny! :smile:
YouTube


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

I would say Sony are closer to the Nazi regime than the table of HD makers...........


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Personally I think disk driven formats are all SHITE. I've never seen a more fragile format. 

I've always appreciated the clarity and the amount of material you could get on a CD or DVD, but have loathed the bloody jewel cases and the delicate nature of the disks since day one.

I'm surprised they've been around as long as they have.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

That law is only believable by those who swear by Bode's Law...........


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Personally I think disk driven formats are all SHITE. I've never seen a more fragile format.
> 
> I've always appreciated the clarity and the amount of material you could get on a CD or DVD, but have loathed the bloody jewel cases and the delicate nature of the disks since day one.
> 
> I'm surprised they've been around as long as they have.


With a crystal you can fit an infinate amount of data, step on it, drive over it, and it still plays. But where is the profit?..............


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Pretty funny.

I own neither format - have been waiting for the winner (and prices to come down) and I really haven't seen the quality difference between either and my upconverting player that would justify the jump.

Once again though it looks like the better technology will lose to the better marketed.


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## WarrenG (Feb 3, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> Once again though it looks like the better technology will lose to the better marketed.


How's that Chris? 

Format: Blu-Ray || HD DVD

ROM single layer: 23.3 / 25GB || 15GB
ROM dual layer: 46.6 / 50GB || 30GB

RW single layer: 23.3 / 25 / 27GB || -/-/-
RW dual layer: 46.6 / 50 / 54GB || -/-/-

Highest test: 100GB || 45GB
Theoretical limit: 200GB || 60GB 

Blu-ray clearly has the higher storage capacity and potential uses. Codecs and security are about the same.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Its the old Beta VHS battle replayed. Sony had better technology back then too, but they got beat because they were stoopid...........


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

WarrenG said:


> How's that Chris?
> 
> Format: Blu-Ray || HD DVD
> 
> ...


One of the biggest issues I had with Blue Ray was Profile 1.0, 1.1, 2.0

HD-DVD is a finalized format. Blue Ray owners will have upgrade their players over time if they want the advanced features.

Blue Ray has larger capacity and slightly larger bandwidth capabilities. HD-DVD used more effecient Codecs so the end result is pretty much a wash.

HD-DVD didn't do uncompressed but all said and done the True-HD, DTS-MA etc are bit for bit reproduction like PCM but physically compressed to save disk space.

I was hoping for HD-DVD but have been format neutral for a long time.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

How clear does a picture need to be before you can enjoy a movie? 

Honestly, I don't understand why people are clamouring to buy yet another format; DVD hasn't been around _that_ long. All this stuff is driven by the hope to resell the same product over and over again (anyone bought the same album on vinyl, tape, and cd . . .)

TG


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Personally I think disk driven formats are all SHITE. I've never seen a more fragile format.
> 
> I've always appreciated the clarity and the amount of material you could get on a CD or DVD, but have loathed the bloody jewel cases and the delicate nature of the disks since day one.
> 
> I'm surprised they've been around as long as they have.


Big +1. I think discs are doomed anyway, music or movies. Blu-Ray is winning the HD disc battle, but Apple will win the war by killing off discs alltogether. Digital distribution rules and ITunes is not just for music anymore.



> A new version of Apple TV will be able to connect to the Internet directly and download TV shows, movies and music through iTunes. Viewers will be able to choose movies directly from their TVs and Apple said viewers could start watching within seconds if they had a fast Internet connection.
> 
> Jobs announced deals with all six major movie studios and several smaller ones to offer movies for rental through iTunes, with new releases costing $3.99 and library titles $2.99. High-definition movies will also be available.
> 
> The revamp of Apple TV hardware combined with a broad selection of movies would give Apple an edge over competitors such as Amazon.com Inc (AMZN.O), Netflix and Microsoft Corp (MSFT.O), American Technology Research's Wu said.


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## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

It's Mini Disc vs. DAT all over again. In the end one will have the lead, but neither will have won.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Robboman said:


> Big +1. I think discs are doomed anyway, music or movies. Blu-Ray is winning the HD disc battle, but Apple will win the war by killing off discs alltogether. Digital distribution rules and ITunes is not just for music anymore.


So convenience will win out over quality just like with mp3's. You'll end up a picture that'll look just as fine on a 40 year old Zenith as it does on your 1080p 120 htz LCD .......... or will everybody be watching movies on personal players with 2" screens?

I'm getting old ...


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

I think both formats are doomed, when you consider that you can download just about any movie as a screener before it is even released in the theater. Sooner or later, they are going to just drop the media alltogether and just download movies to whatever you view them on.

My friend watches movies on his blackberry - don't ask me why, but he seems to think its a usefull feature.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

All I can say is that I cringe thinking about watching SD content. I've been watching HD-DVD and Blue Ray content in full 1080p and HD audio quality for a while now.

Right now 1080i with DD 5.1 transport stream files are running 7-9GB per hour.

True 1080p with 7.1 uncompressed is going to be 25GB to 50GB per movie. I'm not downloading a 25-50GB file to watch a movie in true HD glory.

I won't accept some lossy compressed codec as a compromise either.


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

Recently got my first actual HDTV (used to watch x264s on my PC), it's 720p though. But most people say they can't see the difference between 1080p and 720p when they're an appropriate distance away anyway so I'm not too concerned. 

I just download x264s and run them off my HTPC... I still get nice clarity compared to typical DVDs/standard def so I'm happy. I'll admit, I still do watch some standard def stuff though (trying to ignore the distortion and pixelation). Sometimes I download 1080p movies and store them so if I go to my dad's house we can watch them on his huge ass TV.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Does anyone truly get that much out of all this better definition ? I know I was amazed with how all these new plasma TV's and all these blue ray discs look but I'm sure after a while you don't really notice , it becomes an every day thing and the novilty will wear off :zzz:. 
It's another run of new toys to sell till the next new toys come along a few years down the road . Keeps the electronics manufacturers bringing in $$'s even though a lot of it's crap made in China .
My VCR and regular discs are just fine on my Panasonic HD projection TV thanks :bow:


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

I don't think so. We've had a 1080p TV since Sept, I am still amazed at the clarity of it.
Shaw only broadcasts in 1080i - so I bought an HD DVD player to run full 1080p.
I don't know that I can tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p. Maybe action sequences? I don't know.

But every once in awhile the screen clarity freaks me out compared to regular TV. These really are amazing.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

nitehawk55 said:


> Does anyone truly get that much out of all this better definition ? I know I was amazed with how all these new plasma TV's and all these blue ray discs look but I'm sure after a while you don't really notice , it becomes an every day thing and the novilty will wear off :zzz:.
> It's another run of new toys to sell till the next new toys come along a few years down the road . Keeps the electronics manufacturers bringing in $$'s even though a lot of it's crap made in China .
> My VCR and regular discs are just fine on my Panasonic HD projection TV thanks :bow:


The difference is huge! VHS to standard DVD is huge to my eyes. 
I made the switch to HD cable 4 months ago, even though I've had an HD plasma for a year. I don't even like to watch programming that isn't HD.

Where you really see the difference is sports! Hockey and football are incredible to watch in HD. Hell, I'll even watch a fishing show in HD. The water looks like its in your tv!


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> One of the biggest issues I had with Blue Ray was Profile 1.0, 1.1, 2.0
> 
> HD-DVD is a finalized format. Blue Ray owners will have upgrade their players over time if they want the advanced features.
> 
> ...


You're absolutely right. In today's context, you'd think that it should be fairly easy to upgrade your firmware (through internet). It's a bit of a bummer when you pick up a recent movie (Blue Ray format), take it home and it doesn't play, call your BRay player manufacturer's customer service and be told that the last firmware available is a few months old and that you'll have to wait until they make another firmware update available before you can watch this movie.

I think that up to the standard/best seller format 42" screen TV (LCD or plasma), you won't see much difference between 1080i and 1080p. But when you get to the 50" and up from there, that's when you'll start seeing the difference.

That's a pretty funny clip ne1roc


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

I don't have HD, but has anyone else noticed that the commercials for HD TV channels look better on your regular programming?

I don't watch much TV, and the movies that they are making these days, I can definately do without. I can't stand movies like the matrix, which are more about special effects than anything else. Watching movies like that makes me feel insulted, kind off like when someone intentially cuts you off on the highway.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

dwagar said:


> I don't think so. We've had a 1080p TV since Sept, I am still amazed at the clarity of it.
> Shaw only broadcasts in 1080i - so I bought an HD DVD player to run full 1080p.
> I don't know that I can tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p. Maybe action sequences? I don't know.
> 
> But every once in awhile the screen clarity freaks me out compared to regular TV. These really are amazing.


Remember there is major compression going on with your cable/satellite's 1080i feeds. In this context you will see a big difference between it and your true 1080p source. BD or HDDVD being swiched at the player from 1080i to 1080p will be next to impossible to differentiate. Movie content is 24 frames per second on the disk so 1080i and p can display all the information.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Mahogany Martin said:


> You're absolutely right. In today's context, you'd think that it should be fairly easy to upgrade your firmware (through internet). It's a bit of a bummer when you pick up a recent movie (Blue Ray format), take it home and it doesn't play, call your BRay player manufacturer's customer service and be told that the last firmware available is a few months old and that you'll have to wait until they make another firmware update available before you can watch this movie.
> 
> I think that up to the standard/best seller format 42" screen TV (LCD or plasma), you won't see much difference between 1080i and 1080p. But when you get to the 50" and up from there, that's when you'll start seeing the difference.
> 
> That's a pretty funny clip ne1roc


It's actually worst than firmware updates. The difference between blu-ray profiles is actual hardware specs. The only BR player that has the hardware specs originally is the PS3 it will go from 1.0 -> 1.0 and eventually 2.0 Everyone else will have to pull out the credit card.

That said some won't even know the features they are missing in the new profiles nor care I guess.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

I think the jump from 480i to 480p is a more dramatic jump than 480p to 720p/1080i/1080p. The most killer advance I have ever seen yet is the triple chip DLP. I have only seen the 720p, but it blew away the picture quality of any 1080p that I have seen. It has to do with color perception. Your eyes respond more to the color of triple chip DLP than they do to a change in resolution................
The BluRay/DVDHD thing will eventually die down because someone is going to come out with a dual format player and **** everybody...........


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Accept2 said:


> I think the jump from 480i to 480p is a more dramatic jump than 480p to 720p/1080i/1080p. The most killer advance I have ever seen yet is the triple chip DLP. I have only seen the 720p, but it blew away the picture quality of any 1080p that I have seen. It has to do with color perception. Your eyes respond more to the color of triple chip DLP than they do to a change in resolution................
> The BluRay/DVDHD thing will eventually die down because someone is going to come out with a dual format player and **** everybody...........


And the manufacturer hooks another person with improper color reproduction. First they add blue to the white because the human eye thinks wow. Next they have to push the red up to compensate for the extra blue. Finally they crank up the contrast and crush the black to compensate.

The human brain goes wow, must buy that TV.

Movie companies all use professionally calibrated monitors when setting the colors in film. For a real movie experience us consumers need to do the same. If anyone is interested, talk to a local ISF calibrator. It was a very enlightening experience watching him fix the the color reproduction on my TV.

No quality professionally calibrated 720p television will blow away the equivalent quality professionally calibrated 1080p television in detail at 6ft away if both are being fed true 1080p content.

Screen size and viewing distance is what makes the difference when viewing 720p and 1080p. If you sit 10 ft away from your TV, and can only afford a 42" TV, 720p is good enough for you. At 10ft and 60" you best get the 1080p.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

I use 100" and sit 18 feet away. I can see a difference when going to lower resolutions but not that much between 720p and 1080p as you see between 480i and 480p, but nothing can beat the triple chip DLP, and yes the 720p triple chip DLP does blow away the competitions 1080p display. It just costs about 10 times the price. If the wasnt there, digital cinemas would not use triple chip DLP to blow up images on 100' screens that look good even when you are really close or far away............


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

480i has the same resolution as 480p just interlaced.

Half the lines are refreshed each cycle. So you can compare it to 30hz vs 60hz. And no 480i isn't equivalent to 240p as some think.

The only difference between the 2 will be in in fast moving scenes the 480i will be slightly blurier.

The better contrast ratio and more luminas of the triple chip projector looks better to you. It doesn't have more detail at the proper viewing distance and doesn't prove that that there is no difference between 720p and 1080p.


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## WarrenG (Feb 3, 2006)

Boy, Jeff sure knows his TV stuff.


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## WarrenG (Feb 3, 2006)

Can we say the war's over now?... HD-DVD is dead.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/xml/article/tech/0,,91221-12894,00.html


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

WarrenG said:


> Can we say the war's over now?... HD-DVD is dead.
> 
> http://news.sky.com/skynews/xml/article/tech/0,,91221-12894,00.html


 
Yep.

Sad in a way. HD-DVD was feature complete and much cheaper to get into. Now we must all bend over, Sony is in control.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

They won a war that could be meaningless. Its not guarenteed a win. There hve been battles where Phillips won the VCD battle, and then there was the DAT and MD battle. The winners were proclaimed, but 6 months later a better format come out and screwed them. If Sony keeps the prices up, that will happen again..........


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