# Covid 19 suspension of rights



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

So what risks is everyone taking in spite of the restrictions. Not necessarily talking about the reckless types of risks for no reason but maybe risks you're taking for compassionate reasons. Missing family, etc.
My 28 year old daughter and 10 year old grand daughter are living with my wife and I denied my daughters request to have a male friend that she's interested in come over for a visit due to social distancing. I was a little miffed that she even asked as we are trying to minimize risks. My wife and I already have daily risks are we are both still working.
However in a different case my grand daughters father wanted to come over to see his daughter as they haven't seen each other for a few weeks. I am uncomfortable about this but I can sympathize with him. I had a daughter before my wife and I always had to fight to see my daughter as my ex was a bit psycho and deliberately tried to alienate me from my daughter. So on compassionate grounds I've allowed this. To make me further uncomfortable my grand daughters father lives with his parents and his parents continue to baby sit daily for their daughter who is a nurse at the hospital. I thought I was being compassionate allowing these visits but it seems the courts don't agree. I just found out that there stance on this is that the rights of child visitation cannot be suspended due to covid 19. Although my daughter and the father have worked this out and both agree to minimal contact my daughter has no legal right to suspend visitation. I'm torn about this as I feel bad that the father isn't getting his visitation rights (even though he's agreed and I commend him for his sacrifice). Yet at the same time I thought that all of us had to sacrifice. I've heard stories of old people dying alone and family not being able to attend funerals. As well as the many other sacrifices that are being made. All of us have had our rights suspended which makes me feel uneasy. Yet child visitation rights are to be enforced regardless.

The exercise of custody and access rights in the era of COVID-19: “There will be no easy answers”


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

The distinction is...visitation rights are generally court ordered. Court orders must be followed unless the court suspends them. Court orders are not optional.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> The distinction is...visitation rights are generally court ordered. Court orders must be followed unless the court suspends them. Court orders are not optional.


Aside from child visitation I'm not sure this is the case. Court orders that have deadline\limitations have been suspended.

Adapting litigation rules to COVID-19: Suspension of limitation periods and deadlines and other temporary changes to processes and access to redress


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Maggs and I are both being careful and are either at work or at home, etc. However, careful as we have tried to be - we've dodged a bullet twice now. In the first, my kids grandparents came down with Covid. My son had picked up his grandmother at the hospital (she was there on un-related matters) and a week later she tested positive. Meanwhile Maggs and I had seen my grandson for his birthday (their whole family). Maggs had not wanted to go but I insisted. Two days later the grandmother is positive. Doing the math, if my son is healthy for the next 3 days then we're ok. Maggs had a similar story. Her boss' husband has his daughter over for lunch - just the two of them in the house. 6 days later the daughter shows symptoms and tests positive and the husband and boss get tested. Maggs last saw her boss within the time period. Wait another 4 days to find the tests came back negative.

Phew! I tell ya - it reminds me of the time my highschool sweetie and I passed on the condom just once and she was "late". Counting the days for sure


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I quickly scanned the article you linked. It seemed to deal with the filing of paperwork for active cases before the courts. Not finalized orders.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

You can say yes or no to anyone coming to your house but that's about it.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

We still see my mother in law once or twice a week. She's 90 and still living by herself, other than her cat. She can't do everything for herself though so we need to help out. She's safer than being in a home though. Outside of that it's an occasional trip out to the pharmacy or for groceries and that's it.

I had to put my car on the trickle charger due to lack of use.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> Maggs and I are both being careful and are either at work or at home, etc. However, careful as we have tried to be - we've dodged a bullet twice now. In the first, my kids grandparents came down with Covid. My son had picked up his grandmother at the hospital (she was there on un-related matters) and a week later she tested positive. Meanwhile Maggs and I had seen my grandson for his birthday (their whole family). Maggs had not wanted to go but I insisted. Two days later the grandmother is positive. Doing the math, if my son is healthy for the next 3 days then we're ok. Maggs had a similar story. Her boss' husband has his daughter over for lunch - just the two of them in the house. 6 days later the daughter shows symptoms and tests positive and the husband and boss get tested. Maggs last saw her boss within the time period. Wait another 4 days to find the tests came back negative.
> 
> Phew! I tell ya - it reminds me of the time my highschool sweetie and I passed on the condom just once and she was "late". Counting the days for sure


Because everything is still in the ifs and maybes categories everyone at your house should be ok. Maybe. Best of luck. My sweating tale is the same as your except we passed more than once. Our system was checking the calendar and a few other things that didn't seem to work. My daughter is now 55.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

JBFairthorne said:


> I quickly scanned the article you linked. It seemed to deal with the filing of paperwork for active cases before the courts. Not finalized orders.


Yeah, this was done a few weeks ago although virtual commissioning of sworn documents was more recent I believe.

What they’ve done is extend deadlines for issuing documents like litigation Claims which have to be started w/in 2 years of the cause of action ( like the date of the car crash etc) and once issued you have 6 months to serve or formally deliver the claim to the person or company being sued. There are other procedural steps which have litigation timelines and all that has been extended.

They need to consider visitation orders for family law in the context of the virus thing. It’s a bit of a problem though because Judge's Orders can only be varied by a Judge and they can’t really issue a blanket suspension of all Orders of any kind because that would cause a lot of problems although I suppose that visitation Orders could be temporarily suspended unless there is some urgent need that the visitation order remain in place.


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I just can’t see the courts suspending visitation without a specific reason on a case by case basis. Denying an (apparently) healthy parent access to their (apparently) healthy child seems a bit far fetched.

I’m divorced and subject to a visitation order...which we pretty much ignore because our real life arrangement is pretty casual and fluid. I couldn’t imagine being denied access to my kids simply out of fear. My ex was a real piece of work but the ONE positive thing I can say is that she gives me relatively unlimited access. 

Frankly, if anything, they’re probably safer with me as she works in an old folks home and will almost certainly be exposed to it sooner or later. I’m still working (part time) but I’m alone and outdoors so my risk at work is pretty slim.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

JBFairthorne said:


> I just can’t see the courts suspending visitation without a specific reason on a case by case basis. Denying an (apparently) healthy parent access to their (apparently) healthy child seems a bit far fetched.
> 
> I’m divorced and subject to a visitation order...which we pretty much ignore because our real life arrangement is pretty casual and fluid. I couldn’t imagine being denied access to my kids simply out of fear. My ex was a real piece of work but the ONE positive thing I can say is that she gives me relatively unlimited access.
> 
> Frankly, if anything, they’re probably safer with me as she works in an old folks home and will almost certainly be exposed to it sooner or later. I’m still working (part time) but I’m alone and outdoors so my risk at work is pretty slim.


I was denied access to my son because a test for life insurance for a house my ex and I owned came back with traces of pot. This was in the 90's. I had to do 4 tests a month apart before I got my rights back.....which didn't matter because my son said screw it and came over when ever he wanted. To me the only way the father could be legally denied access would be if it went back to court and the court decided against the father.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

JBFairthorne said:


> I just can’t see the courts suspending visitation without a specific reason on a case by case basis. Denying an (apparently) healthy parent access to their (apparently) healthy child seems a bit far fetched.


I think that is correct but it is a question that's out there if the intent is to limit contact between people and therefore the answer to that question may change depending on how strict the enforcement procedure becomes due to necessity. As you know, a person can be apparently healthy but contagious and the example (flip it around) of a non-custodial parent who works in a high risk environment like a nursing home exercising visitation rights would create a higher risk of exposure. 

I'm not really taking a position on it; the question just occurred to me as I read the preceding posts.

So, anyway, good luck in all of this; seems we're heading for a shit storm no matter what happens whether it's the virus or the economy.

I don't see getting back to jamming and playing bars any time soon.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Although my daughter and my grand daughters father have worked out what they feel is best interest my daughter has a friend who is denying access to her ex. She has 3 children and they aren't allowed to see the father because she's worried about the covid thing. Although I know this girl and I think a little of it is out of spite as they do not have a good relation ship and are constantly fighting over access. 
However the reality is no ones going to be able to do anything about it until this thing is over. Then I don't know what the recourse would be if the mother allowed access when the covid thing was over.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The thing to remember is that, although it can certainly feel like an eternity, it's just "for now", not forever.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

mhammer said:


> The thing to remember is that, although it can certainly feel like an eternity, it's just "for now", not forever.


It might be forever for some people.


----------



## Nork (Mar 27, 2010)

mhammer said:


> The thing to remember is that, although it can certainly feel like an eternity, it's just "for now", not forever.


This. 

We’re not in the same situation at all but we’ve had this conversation a lot. 

My parents (who’re local here in Kemptville) and us have been fairly involved in each others worlds since before this began. We go nowhere other than for groceries, and I go into the hospital to work. 

Her parents we’ve isolated since the beginning. She was in hosp with a viral pneumonia (but covid -). So we’ve been isolating them. They’re kinda ticked. But.

This is temporary. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Winter felt like it was going to last forever, and we did have that snow the other day. But you know, the crocuses are out, the hyacinths are budding, the tulip shoots are poking out, and the birds are back. This winter will pass.


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

Went for about a 2km walk around the neighborhood today, I literally had not been out of the house in 10 days, and no further than the 2 minute community mailbox since March 26. It was good to take the air, everybody super polite, crossing 1/2 block ahead to be on the other side, almost all smiling and waving. Refreshing.

Took the car for a 5 minute spin just to charge it a bit. Snowed again a bit, the deck had been clear, lawns 25-75% clear depending what side of the row. I have 360’ of 4x4x12 landing tomorrow to build planter boxes. We have tons of space and the will and time to finally have a big garden and I don’t know if we’ll get all the seeds we want lol.


----------



## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

I go into work once a week or so to do things or get information I can’t get remotely. 

My biggest risk is probably the fuel pump.

If I understand “flattening the curve” correctly the objective isn’t to prevent us from getting covid, but to slow the rate of infection so that we don’t overwhelm the medical system. I’m resigned to the idea that I’ll eventually get it, but I’m doing my best to ensure that I don’t unnecessarily become a drain on the system. I’d be upset to learn that some 65 year old didn’t have access to adequate medical care because I triaged higher than him due to age.


----------



## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Like pretty much anything else there is an issue of balance.
Some are completely ignoring anything about quarantines, etc, including protests, and others are going overboard & causing more panic & issues than needed.

It's been over a week since I was out beyond the property line.
But no need to, yet.
Will probably need to go get some groceries soon.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

zontar said:


> Will probably need to go get some groceries soon.


I went to a Sobeys in toronto about 2 weeks ago; it was kinda disgusting and I don't want to go back there.


----------



## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Wardo said:


> I went to a Sobeys in toronto about 2 weeks ago; it was kinda disgusting and I don't want to go back there.


there are 5 grocery stores all a short drive away--two that I will not be going to at this time.
People there seem to have no idea what is going on.
A third seems good, and the other two I haven't checked out yet.


----------



## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I don’t understand why so many couples are shopping. I’m sure some are legit but there are way too many. Most of them are just looking to get out and socialize. They are clogging up the aisles. Then there are the people who stop in the middle of the aisle and stare at the shelves for a minute or two before picking up one item and meander on. Even worse is they decide they don’t need whatever they were looking at. My wife and I used to shop daily, usually both of us. Since COVID-19 we have a list for a week’s worth of groceries. One of us waits in the car while other shops. When the shopper gets out to the car they use sanitizer while the other one wipes down the groceries. We are actually eating a lot better because our meals are planned out. We save a lot of money because we don’t buy a lot of impulse items.


----------



## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Wardo said:


> I went to a Sobeys in toronto about 2 weeks ago; it was kinda disgusting and I don't want to go back there.


I was at Coleman's on Friday, half the people there act like nothing is going on. The only thing they didn't do is jump in the cart.


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Fortunately I bought $500.00 worth of light bulbs when the idiots in ontario banned them so when the shit goes down I’ll be ok cause I can trade light bulbs for gas, food and ammunition.


----------



## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Kerry Brown said:


> I don’t understand why so many couples are shopping.


Personally speaking. Because even with a list we forget things and then would have to make a second trip in to the store. Sometimes one of us remembers something that is not on the list, and sometimes we see something that is a good deal so then we get whatever goes with it at the same time. Both of us shopping saves multiple trips to the store. Therefore the total time spent there is actually less than if only one of us went.


----------



## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

How about a little perspective on the general population being "inconvenienced" over this virus. Some have to deal with a lot more.


----------



## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Personally speaking. Because even with a list we forget things and then would have to make a second trip in to the store. Sometimes one of us remembers something that is not on the list, and sometimes we see something that is a good deal so then we get whatever goes with it at the same time. Both of us shopping saves multiple trips to the store. Therefore the total time spent there is actually less than if only one of us went.


It sounds like you have thought things through. The people I was complaining about seem oblivious. I see couples checking out with one or two items or wondering around chatting with others. Yes, they social distance but no one can get by them. Normally this stuff wouldn’t bother me. I would just say excuse me and squeeze by. Now I just want to get the items on my list as quickly as possible and get out of the store. Life has changed. Shopping for someone my age is life threatening.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Wardo said:


> Fortunately I bought $500.00 worth of light bulbs when the idiots in ontario banned them so when the shit goes down I’ll be ok cause I can trade light bulbs for gas, food and ammunition.


I stocked up too.


----------



## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

oops, wrong thread!


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Wardo said:


> Fortunately I bought $500.00 worth of light bulbs when the idiots in ontario banned them so when the shit goes down I’ll be ok cause I can trade light bulbs for gas, food and ammunition.


For as long as Ontario has its expensive time-of-use billing for electricity suspended you're golden, a rich man, but you should make your deals early. The Ontario government can't pay the difference forever and will be itching to put the load back on ratepayers. Your bulbs costing 6-8 times as much to light up won't be quite as 'hot' an item.

There's a question. When governments decided to ban tungsten bulbs did they include in their equations the heat that was generated by the bulbs, which when lost through use of cooler LED bulbs would increase the use of heating fuels to warm our spaces?


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Wardo said:


> Fortunately I bought $500.00 worth of light bulbs when the idiots in ontario banned them so when the shit goes down I’ll be ok cause I can trade light bulbs for gas, food and ammunition.



So, you prefer paying higher monthly hydro bills? Don't like LEDs?

I was happy to jump all over that myself. I think the quality of the LED lights can definitely be improved as the durability I get doesn't line up with what they claim, but the reduced consumption and heat are good things in my opinion.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Jim DaddyO said:


> How about a little perspective on the general population being "inconvenienced" over this virus. Some have to deal with a lot more.


When I first read this I thought, chill out, don't walk around pissed off all the time.

They I realized she's in Michigan where there has been all kinds of bitching and moaning , protests even with people expressing their concerns that their personal rights and freedoms are being trampled on.


----------



## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Makes you wonder what about the children they are dragging along to these protests, what about their rights to live and be free from Covid-19. Man my wife and daughter go to work in the hospital every day ( and my wife gets calls at all times of the day to deal with shit and workers who are scared ) and I go shopping and try to keep my distance from others ( which can be difficult as the aisles are only 6 feet apart ).
Just to many folks frightened out there making it harder for them self's and to many people screaming at governments for not having a better pandemic plan ( not sure how you can really plan for something like this ). Its a strange world that we now live in and will so for some time I imagine. But at the same time we have to find a way to be strong and not give into fear because fear is the killer of the mind.
Lets hope that this goes away sooner then later and we can get back to some sort of normal that we know and it helps ease the minds and gets the economy rolling again. Being house bound is not fun but if we all do our part then maybe we can get a hold of this and kick the shit out of Covid-19. stay strong brothers and sisters we will win together


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

Milkman said:


> So, you prefer paying higher monthly hydro bills? Don't like LEDs?
> 
> I was happy to jump all over that myself. I think the quality of the LED lights can definitely be improved as the durability I get doesn't line up with what they claim, but the reduced consumption and heat are good things in my opinion.


I have never liked them. Even moreso once I learned they are actually no BS bad for your eyes. LED lights eye damage - Google Search


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> Fortunately I bought $500.00 worth of light bulbs when the idiots in ontario banned them so when the shit goes down I’ll be ok cause I can trade light bulbs for gas, food and ammunition.


Unless they're this type of bulb they're not worth trading gas, food or ammo for.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> So, you prefer paying higher monthly hydro bills? Don't like LEDs?
> 
> I was happy to jump all over that myself. I think the quality of the LED lights can definitely be improved as the durability I get doesn't line up with what they claim, but the reduced consumption and heat are good things in my opinion.


As a heat source LED's suck and they don't take the cold. A 100 watt bulb or two will keep a good sized shop above freezing when it's - 20 or so and they are on all the time. A lot cheaper than other heat sources and saves on having to buy new batteries among other things.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Ship of fools said:


> Makes you wonder what about the children they are dragging along to these protests, what about their rights to live and be free from Covid-19. Man my wife and daughter go to work in the hospital every day ( and my wife gets calls at all times of the day to deal with shit and workers who are scared ) and I go shopping and try to keep my distance from others ( which can be difficult as the aisles are only 6 feet apart ).
> Just to many folks frightened out there making it harder for them self's and to many people screaming at governments for not having a better pandemic plan ( not sure how you can really plan for something like this ). Its a strange world that we now live in and will so for some time I imagine. But at the same time we have to find a way to be strong and not give into fear because fear is the killer of the mind.
> Lets hope that this goes away sooner then later and we can get back to some sort of normal that we know and it helps ease the minds and gets the economy rolling again. Being house bound is not fun but if we all do our part then maybe we can get a hold of this and kick the shit out of Covid-19. stay strong brothers and sisters we will win together


Just saying they've been dragging kids along to all sorts of protests for a long time. I wouldn't mind if they open places up so you can buy things like shoes, eye glasses etc.. Walmart just doesn't cut it and neither does shopping online.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> As a heat source LED's suck and they don't take the cold. A 100 watt bulb or two will keep a good sized shop above freezing when it's - 20 or so and they are on all the time. A lot cheaper than other heat sources and saves on having to buy new batteries among other things.


Ok but incandescent light bulbs are not generally the most desirable way to heat a space.

The heat generated by a conventional bulb is actually an unwanted side effect is it not?


----------



## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Ship of fools said:


> Makes you wonder what about the children they are dragging along to these protests, what about their rights to live and be free from Covid-19. Man my wife and daughter go to work in the hospital every day ( and my wife gets calls at all times of the day to deal with shit and workers who are scared ) and I go shopping and try to keep my distance from others ( which can be difficult as the aisles are only 6 feet apart ).
> Just to many folks frightened out there making it harder for them self's and to many people screaming at governments for not having a better pandemic plan ( not sure how you can really plan for something like this ). Its a strange world that we now live in and will so for some time I imagine. But at the same time we have to find a way to be strong and not give into fear because fear is the killer of the mind.
> Lets hope that this goes away sooner then later and we can get back to some sort of normal that we know and it helps ease the minds and gets the economy rolling again. Being house bound is not fun but if we all do our part then maybe we can get a hold of this and kick the shit out of Covid-19. stay strong brothers and sisters we will win together


We’re at a point where for multiple generations almost no one has died from disease and the worst childhood illness most people have dealt with is chicken pox. I’m not sure most people have ever even seen a real case of influenza.

I think this has lulled us into a false sense of security.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Ok but incandescent light bulbs are not generally the most desirable way to heat a space.
> 
> The heat generated by a conventional bulb is actually an unwanted side effect is it not?


When you have a shop that isn't connected to your house and you might not be in there everyday light bulbs work just fine and are very cost effective. The heat given off is one of the wanted side effects. A very low fire hazard is another especially when you have gas powered items in there. Last place I had the main shop had electric heat. Having that on even with a thermostat cost more than having the car and truck block heaters plugged in and turned on for 5 hrs. a night. 3 100 watt bulbs kept it at above freezing and were a great light source when you were working there. Kept the snowblower defrosted too. In the small shed 1 100 watt bulb kept it above freezing.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

_Azrael said:


> We’re at a point where for multiple generations almost no one has died from disease and the worst childhood illness most people have dealt with is chicken pox. I’m not sure most people have ever even seen a real case of influenza.
> 
> I think this has lulled us into a false sense of security.


I think you're wrong. Plenty have died from diseases and chicken pox is not the worst childhood one. Here's just a few.
Childhood Diseases: Measles, Mumps, & More


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Milkman said:


> Ok but incandescent light bulbs are not generally the most desirable way to heat a space.
> 
> The heat generated by a conventional bulb is actually an unwanted side effect is it not?


Yes, it is. Providing heat all the time, even when you don't want it (middle of a hot summer evening). And putting heat where it has the least effect on us, up high and often right at ceiling level. Heat rises and it takes a long time for it to fill the room from the top down.

It is also much more expensive to heat with electricity than gas these days, and probably for the foreseeable future. Much better to put lights where you want them and use them for illumination and put heat sources where you want them and use them for heat. 

As a side note, I have a CFL above my front door that I installed in 2006. Except for power outages, it hasn't been turned off since. And I haven't had to change it yet. That's not too bad for what was initially a pretty expensive bulb. They are much better and much, much, much cheaper now.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Yes, it is. Providing heat all the time, even when you don't want it (middle of a hot summer evening). And putting heat where it has the least effect on us, up high and often right at ceiling level. Heat rises and it takes a long time for it to fill the room from the top down.
> 
> It is also much more expensive to heat with electricity than gas these days, and probably for the foreseeable future. Much better to put lights where you want them and use them for illumination and put heat sources where you want them and use them for heat.
> 
> As a side note, I have a CFL above my front door that I installed in 2006. Except for power outages, it hasn't been turned off since. And I haven't had to change it yet. That's not too bad for what was initially a pretty expensive bulb. They are much better and much, much, much cheaper now.


I tried CFL's outside in Red Deer. -30 took care of them fast. As far as lights....in the middle of a hot summer evening....you usually don't need them until it gets dark and if it's above 80'f you're not going to notice the extra heat if the lights are on. As far as heat sources go, especially in a shop where you are working on vehicles, open flame is not always the best. That is if you have a gas connection to your property and to your shop.


----------



## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Electraglide said:


> I think you're wrong. Plenty have died from diseases and chicken pox is not the worst childhood one. Here's just a few.
> Childhood Diseases: Measles, Mumps, & More


You’re old enough to remember them.

For some of us (I’m 42), that stuff only exists in textbooks and stories my Grandparents would tell.


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

_Azrael said:


> You’re old enough to remember them. For some of us (I’m 42), that stuff only exists in textbooks and stories my Grandparents would tell.


If anti-vaxxers continue to spread their "gospel" the diseases certainly won't be just history anymore. There are already stories of micro-outbreaks here and there of diseases that had been all but eradicated.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

_Azrael said:


> You’re old enough to remember them.
> 
> For some of us (I’m 42), that stuff only exists in textbooks and stories my Grandparents would tell.


Had a girlfriend around your age who asked me once if I'd had mumps 'cause her kid had them....thank the dog I had. If you were never around anyone who had the common childhood diseases you were either very lucky or had very overprotective parents. My son and his friends seemed to get them all. Some even had measles even tho kids your age got inoculated for them. 
Problem is, especially for people your age, if you don't remember having a lot of these childhood diseases then there's a good chance that you didn't have them. If you didn't have them and you get them now, it could be bad. Mumps is making a comeback and in an adult male that can be bad. They say protection from the vaccine goes away over the years. Not too sure if the protection goes away if you caught mumps naturally.....fingers crossed.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> So, you prefer paying higher monthly hydro bills? Don't like LEDs?
> 
> I was happy to jump all over that myself. I think the quality of the LED lights can definitely be improved as the durability I get doesn't line up with what they claim, but the reduced consumption and heat are good things in my opinion.


Back when I used the old light bulbs they were terrible for longevity. Especially the fixture outside my front door. I think the extreme cold or heat killed them I'd be replacing it monthly. Now that I'm all over to LED They outlast by miles. In the 5 years or so since I outfitted the house with LED I have replaced 2.


----------



## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Childhood diseases not being fatal anymore? 

2005 my 14 year old step son died from a disease caused by a mutant Ruebella virus. The 3rd person to get the disease since they started tracking rare diseases in Canada in 1965. One in 3 million odds of getting it in this country because of the vaccination program we have. It is more prevalent in countries that don't vaccinate. Unfortunately for him, he got a none typical case of Ruebella just before he got his booster shot.

You can't convince me that childhood diseases no longer have the capability to be bad, or fatal.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

boyscout said:


> If anti-vaxxers continue to spread their "gospel" the diseases certainly won't be just history anymore. There are already stories of micro-outbreaks here and there of diseases that had been all but eradicated.


They say that Small Pox is only around in labs and Polio is almost gone.....almost. Not too sure if my son was vaccinated for either of these but I don't think the granddaughters were. 
A quick search brought this up
5 Old-Time Diseases That Are Making a Comeback
I can remember in the 70's there were TB clinics all over the place and there still is a lung disease clinic near my Drs. office that checks for TB. Not too sure if I'm slatted to go there when they re-open tho my Dr. has mentioned it. Plague is interesting and so is Scarlet Fever.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> As a heat source LED's suck and they don't take the cold. A 100 watt bulb or two will keep a good sized shop above freezing when it's - 20 or so and they are on all the time. A lot cheaper than other heat sources and saves on having to buy new batteries among other things.





Electraglide said:


> When you have a shop that isn't connected to your house and you might not be in there everyday light bulbs work just fine and are very cost effective. The heat given off is one of the wanted side effects. A very low fire hazard is another especially when you have gas powered items in there. Last place I had the main shop had electric heat. Having that on even with a thermostat cost more than having the car and truck block heaters plugged in and turned on for 5 hrs. a night. 3 100 watt bulbs kept it at above freezing and were a great light source when you were working there. Kept the snowblower defrosted too. In the small shed 1 100 watt bulb kept it above freezing.


I think your brother has given you some incorrect information here


----------



## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> They say that Small Pox is only around in labs and Polio is almost gone.....almost. Not too sure if my son was vaccinated for either of these but I don't think the granddaughters were.
> A quick search brought this up
> 5 Old-Time Diseases That Are Making a Comeback
> I can remember in the 70's there were TB clinics all over the place and there still is a lung disease clinic near my Drs. office that checks for TB. Not too sure if I'm slatted to go there when they re-open tho my Dr. has mentioned it. Plague is interesting and so is Scarlet Fever.


Polio was just before my time. I was vaccinated in elementary school. Some older kids, 10 years or so, suffered from polio. There were quite a few people that were partially paralyzed. It was common to see older kids with permanent crutches, in wheelchairs, arms that didn’t work etc. from polio. Everyone knew a few family’s where someone had died. Mumps, hooping cough, chicken pox, and even measles were still around. This may be why my generation takes the pandemic very seriously. We didn’t go through any pandemics but all saw the results of infectious diseases and know that death and/or life long consequences are a possibility.


----------



## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Childhood diseases not being fatal anymore?
> 
> 2005 my 14 year old step son died from a disease caused by a mutant Ruebella virus. The 3rd person to get the disease since they started tracking rare diseases in Canada in 1965. One in 3 million odds of getting it in this country because of the vaccination program we have. It is more prevalent in countries that don't vaccinate. Unfortunately for him, he got a none typical case of Ruebella just before he got his booster shot.
> 
> You can't convince me that childhood diseases no longer have the capability to be bad, or fatal.


Agreed.

But, your experience reinforces my point. Very few people have your kind of personal experience anymore. Most Canadians (including myself) are making decisions from a perspective of ignorance.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Kerry Brown said:


> Polio was just before my time. I was vaccinated in elementary school. Some older kids, 10 years or so, suffered from polio. There were quite a few people that were partially paralyzed. It was common to see older kids with permanent crutches, in wheelchairs, arms that didn’t work etc. from polio. Everyone knew a few family’s where someone had died. Mumps, hooping cough, chicken pox, and even measles were still around. This may be why my generation takes the pandemic very seriously. We didn’t go through any pandemics but all saw the results of infectious diseases and know that death and/or life long consequences are a possibility.


We got both the shot and on a sugar cube vaccine for polio...got the shot for small pox....had measles and mumps before the vaccine came out. This is back '55 or so. A friend of mine's older brother....by a year...had polio. Never had any 'pandemics' but there were epidemics of various diseases where I grew up including Typhoid and we learned all about "Ring around the Rosie" and I remember having a test done at school twice a year....they scratched the inside of your arm with something....I think it was for TB. I do remember, just before we moved back to the Okanagan in '82 being warned by the Dr. of a few things going round on the Lower Mainland like Measles and Mumps and around that time my nieces and nephews all had Chicken Pox....which meant my son had it too. Lots of fun....get the shot for measles etc. and turn around and bang, itchy red spots. 


_Azrael said:


> Agreed.
> 
> But, your experience reinforces my point. Very few people have your kind of personal experience anymore. Most Canadians (including myself) are making decisions from a perspective of ignorance.


I agree that a lot of 'Canadians' your age are making "decisions from a perspective of ignorance" but that seems to go for a lot of things. I disagree with saying that very few people your age lack personal experience on the disease aspect.


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Kerry Brown said:


> Polio was just before my time. I was vaccinated in elementary school. Some older kids, 10 years or so, suffered from polio. There were quite a few people that were partially paralyzed. It was common to see older kids with permanent crutches, in wheelchairs, arms that didn’t work etc. from polio. Everyone knew a few family’s where someone had died. Mumps, hooping cough, chicken pox, and even measles were still around. This may be why my generation takes the pandemic very seriously. We didn’t go through any pandemics but all saw the results of infectious diseases and know that death and/or life long consequences are a possibility.


We are similarly young. I *had* "mumps, hooping cough, chicken pox, and even measles", all of them, and since I had five closely-spaced siblings we often shared whichever one was going around. I still remember the facial pain of the mumps, coughing my lungs and throat out and unable to sleep with hooping cough, the agony of being unable to scratch the chicken pox, the I'm-gonna-die feeling of the measles. I don't know how my mother coped with three-four-five of us all completely miserable going through it at the same time. I don't remember if she got any of them herself too, but she was heroic.

I also remember that when we were finally freed to go back outside after one of these diseases had raged through our house, we would often find that our friends weren't there because they too had been infected, and their brothers and sisters infected, and were still recovering. Nobody died or was seriously handicapped in our circles, but these diseases sure knocked the crap out of households, neighborhoods, and schools for weeks and even months at a time.

And then they stopped, unquestionably due to and thanks to the vaccines that anti-vaxxers decry. Our kids in their late 20s haven't had any of these diseases, nor any of the negative effects of vaccinations, nor have any of the kids they know, just like nearly all kids who have been vaccinated.

We don't have to return to giving people the "experience" of these diseases to make them more aware of and cautious about infectious diseases. We do have to do a much better job of preparing for them.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

boyscout said:


> We are similarly young. I *had* "mumps, hooping cough, chicken pox, and even measles", all of them, and since I had five closely-spaced siblings we often shared whichever one was going around. I still remember the facial pain of the mumps, coughing my lungs and throat out and unable to sleep with hooping cough, the agony of being unable to scratch the chicken pox, the I'm-gonna-die feeling of the measles. I don't know how my mother coped with three-four-five of us all completely miserable going through it at the same time. I don't remember if she got any of them herself too, but she was heroic.
> 
> I also remember that when we were finally freed to go back outside after one of these diseases had raged through our house, we would often find that our friends weren't there because they too had been infected, and their brothers and sisters infected, and were still recovering. Nobody died or was seriously handicapped in our circles, but these diseases sure knocked the crap out of households, neighborhoods, and schools for weeks and even months at a time.
> 
> ...


Biggest thing that gets me is a lot of the vaccines seem to have a life before you can catch whatever again. but nothing I've seen says anything about thos of us who caught the diseases 'naturally'. as far as stopping, they never did that, just slowed down for a while and are coming back. Toss in there tonsillitis too. On top of bronchitis. They pulled mine and when my kids flared up they just gave him an antibiotic.


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Biggest thing that gets me is a lot of the vaccines seem to have a life before you can catch whatever again. but nothing I've seen says anything about thos of us who caught the diseases 'naturally'. as far as stopping, they never did that, just slowed down for a while and are coming back. Toss in there tonsillitis too. On top of bronchitis. They pulled mine and when my kids flared up they just gave him an antibiotic.


That last one tonsils is a medical decision, a changed attitude about doing the surgery. I had mine out too, these days they gotta just about be falling out on their own rotten before a doc will refer to a surgeon.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

keto said:


> That last one tonsils is a medical decision, a changed attitude about doing the surgery. I had mine out too, these days they gotta just about be falling out on their own rotten before a doc will refer to a surgeon.


Yup as you kid or grand kid is coughing up blood. Can be contagious too.


----------



## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

boyscout said:


> For as long as Ontario has its expensive time-of-use billing for electricity suspended you're golden, a rich man, but you should make your deals early. The Ontario government can't pay the difference forever and will be itching to put the load back on ratepayers. Your bulbs costing 6-8 times as much to light up won't be quite as 'hot' an item.
> 
> There's a question. When governments decided to ban tungsten bulbs did they include in their equations the heat that was generated by the bulbs, which when lost through use of cooler LED bulbs would increase the use of heating fuels to warm our spaces?


This is not some weird theory either. I now have a space heater in our basement where we didn't need one before. Went from 22 50W halogens to 22 7W LED bulbs, it's cold down there now!
It's needed in the spring and fall when the furnace runs less because the upstairs is warm from the sun.
Crazy thing is the light heaters were only on when you were down there, but the room heater stays on all the time. I think I'm using more electricity now!


----------



## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Electraglide said:


> Biggest thing that gets me is a lot of the vaccines seem to have a life before you can catch whatever again. but nothing I've seen says anything about thos of us who caught the diseases 'naturally'. as far as stopping, they never did that, just slowed down for a while and are coming back. Toss in there tonsillitis too. On top of bronchitis. They pulled mine and when my kids flared up they just gave him an antibiotic.


Sorry, to split hairs, they were not stopped but they were certainly curtailed to almost-insignificant levels through a combination of mass vaccinations and the "herd immunity" that ends up protecting even people who have not been vaccinated when most others are vaccinated. Up to a point. For example:

_For 2008, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention received reports of 134 cases of measles in the United States, the most cases in a year since 1996. *Of these cases, more than 90% had not been vaccinated or had an unknown vaccination status.*_

Now some, including measles, are fighting their way back - measles killed 34 people in France a few years ago. Again, most often due to people not being vaccinated.

And yeah, I had my tonsils out too, seven years old, alone in the hospital while mother was at home looking after four other kids. I remember waking up after surgery and vomiting blood into a stainless steel bowl a couple of times and then being brought orange sherbet by a nurse to ease my throat, which I don't think was anesthetized . Miraculous that I survived all this, ain't it?! Some here are secretly grateful.


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

tomee2 said:


> This is not some weird theory either. I now have a space heater in our basement where we didn't need one before. Went from 22 50W halogens to 22 7W LED bulbs, it's cold down there now!
> It's needed in the spring and fall when the furnace runs less because the upstairs is warm from the sun.
> Crazy thing is the light heaters were only on when you were down there, but the room heater stays on all the time. I think I'm using more electricity now!


Put a sweater on and quit your bitching. This thread is headed towards bringing back lead paint and baby cigarettes.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

For me, it was these


----------



## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

laristotle said:


> For me, it was these
> 
> View attachment 306588


I was hooked but I quit, sometimes I sneak one at Halloween


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

tomee2 said:


> This is not some weird theory either. I now have a space heater in our basement where we didn't need one before. Went from 22 50W halogens to 22 7W LED bulbs, it's cold down there now!
> It's needed in the spring and fall when the furnace runs less because the upstairs is warm from the sun.
> Crazy thing is the light heaters were only on when you were down there, but the room heater stays on all the time. I think I'm using more electricity now!


LEDs work like crap in an Easy Bake Oven too


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

boyscout said:


> Sorry, to split hairs, they were not stopped but they were certainly curtailed to almost-insignificant levels through a combination of mass vaccinations and the "herd immunity" that ends up protecting even people who have not been vaccinated when most others are vaccinated. Up to a point. For example:
> 
> _For 2008, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention received reports of 134 cases of measles in the United States, the most cases in a year since 1996. *Of these cases, more than 90% had not been vaccinated or had an unknown vaccination status.*_
> 
> ...





laristotle said:


> For me, it was these
> 
> View attachment 306588


I remember getting chocolate ice cream. I was 4. Couldn't go play by the drainage ditch at the end of the Ave. or go get fresh tar from Bridgeport.....but, I got Ice Cream.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> LEDs work like crap in an Easy Bake Oven too


can't make pot brownies worth a damn.


----------



## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

_Azrael said:


> We’re at a point where for multiple generations almost no one has died from disease and the worst childhood illness most people have dealt with is chicken pox. I’m not sure most people have ever even seen a real case of influenza.
> 
> I think this has lulled us into a false sense of security.


You just reminded me that 100+ years ago there were scads of songs written about death and dying. They seem mawkish and melodramatic to me, but maybe if the world is full of death, they'll make a comeback. I can hardly wait.


----------



## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

laristotle said:


> For me, it was these
> 
> View attachment 306588


I've bought those in bulk--as an adult.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Many of our grandparents lived through The Great Depression and two world wars. If my grandmom was alive still I'm sure she'd just give Covid the finger.


----------



## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

allthumbs56 said:


> Many of our grandparents lived through The Great Depression and two world wars. If my grandmom was alive still I'm sure she'd just give Covid the finger.


Considering the state of old age homes right now...


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Doug Gifford said:


> You just reminded me that 100+ years ago there were scads of songs written about death and dying. They seem mawkish and melodramatic to me, but maybe if the world is full of death, they'll make a comeback. I can hardly wait.


As soon as I saw this, this song came to mind which came out 5 year's after Hank Snow.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> Many of our grandparents lived through The Great Depression and two world wars. If my grandmom was alive still I'm sure she'd just give Covid the finger.


Neither of my grandmother's ever lived in an old folks home and them and my parents would have just shrugged their shoulders and kept on working. Both grandmother's also lived thru the Spanish Flu and a few other pandemics.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


> For me, it was these
> 
> View attachment 306588


Went from those to Philip Morris plain ends dad had brought back from the war. That would have been '58.


----------



## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> As soon as I saw this, this song came to mind which came out 5 year's after Hank Snow.


There *was* that surge in dead teenage traffic accident songs in the early 60s. Hank's song probably dates to the 1800s. Like this one, which is also temperance.
Huge hit for Henry Clay Work, who also wrote "My Grandfather's Clock."


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Doug Gifford said:


> There *was* that surge in dead teenage traffic accident songs in the early 60s. Hank's song probably dates to the 1800s. Like this one, which is also temperance.
> Huge hit for Henry Clay Work, who also wrote "My Grandfather's Clock."


Nope, actually Hank's song was written by Hugh Cross about 1938. I don't recall a 'surge' of dead teenage accidents songs from the 60's myself. Teen Angel comes to mind and Leader of the Pack but that's about it. Not really about death and dying tho. About the only one I recall from 1918 or so that wasn't related to WWI was " I had a little bird who's name was Enza. I opened up the window and In Flew Enza". (The things you learn when you collect old records).


----------



## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Nope, actually Hank's song was written by Hugh Cross about 1938. I don't recall a 'surge' of dead teenage accidents songs from the 60's myself. Teen Angel comes to mind and Leader of the Pack but that's about it. Not really about death and dying tho. About the only one I recall from 1918 or so that wasn't related to WWI was " I had a little bird who's name was Enza. I opened up the window and In Flew Enza". (The things you learn when you collect old records).


I stand corrected. (My computer won't run Wikipedia anymore and I didn't feel like starting up my wife's computer.)


----------

