# Thoughts on small tube combo's for jazz, blues, indie rock.



## rounDSound (Jan 14, 2007)

hi!

i humbly request the collective knowledge of this forum. 

i've recently liberated myself from the last of a long line of mesa boogies( nomad 45 w/ 4x12, blue angel 4x10, stiletto w/cab, nomad 100) and am in need of a small tube combo for replacement. one that would be playable with an electric bass would be a huge plus, although i do realize the design limitations of this. (maybe i should be looking at more of a vintage tube bass amp that can also be played with guitar?)

my favourite amp so far has been the blue angel, and i find myself using fuzz more than built in distortion. so i beg, please throw amp models at me until i come across one i can fit in the corner of my room and play.

1-40 watts, combos only. 

thanks!


----------



## rounDSound (Jan 14, 2007)

hmm...looks like there is a Garnet G45TR on ebay right now. will keep my eyes on that one..


----------



## GuitaristZ (Jan 26, 2007)

fender bassman? I dont know honestly lol


----------



## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...i recently purchased a traynor ycv15blue. they are now out of production, and not easy to find. el84 based. if you like lots of early power tube breakup, this amp is perfect. the ycv20 might also be worth considering. or, check out the peavey classic 30.

my traynor ycv40wr is currently for sale. forty clean watts with a celestion vintage 30 speaker. tons of clean headroom - you could probably plug your bass into it.

-dh


----------



## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

dang Paul...you just ruined my breakfast...LOL...you have just answered a question I had in mind re small tube amp VS bass VS external bass speaker....oh well back to the drawing board...still might try it for quiet practise though
cheers
RIFF


----------



## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

Paul said:


> You will never get any satisfactory performance with a small tube and and an electric bass. It just ain't gonna happen.
> 
> There's a reason a lot of bass guys go to a rack system with a tailored for bass pre-amp, 4 000 clean watts of solid state power, and a big freaking speaker array to handle it all. Bass requires gobs of clean headroom available for burst demands. A small tube amp for guitar is the antithesis of that.
> 
> I don't think this is a compromise that can work.


Well, I respectfully disagree! Tubes were used for bass guitar for a long time. Are you claiming that John Entwhistle sounded like crap? Or all those Beatles recordings?

I will agree that SS amps for bass are lighter, cheaper produce a good sound IF you're looking for a super clean, snappy tone! You'd probably like "Round Wound RotoSound" strings as well.

This is hardly the only good sound for bass guitar. It may be the ONLY tone that younger guys are familiar with but we're talking personal taste here, not the capabilities of a technology.

How many 50's bass players used Fender Bassman's or other 50 watt or less tube amps? How many great recordings are still available from that era?

Pete Traynor was the first to break the 50 watt bass amp barrier in the mid 60's with his YBA 3 Custom Special. All tube, first with tv sweep tubes like 6KD6's and then evolved into a quad of 6CA7/EL34's.

I had an old Fender 400PS bass/lead amp in for repair some years ago. About 80 lbs of golden tone!

You also should be aware but due to a phenomenon called "psycho-acoustics" tube amp power sounds far louder to the human ear. This means a 100 or so watts from an Ampeg V4B sounds much louder than a 100 watt SS amp. The factor is about 3, meaning you need a 300 watt SS amp to equal a 100 watt tube amp.

I once sat in on a basement practise session where I noticed something that just blew my mind. The bass player was using an Ampeg SS 300 watt SVT with a 4-10 bass cab. He had the volume on 10 and I wasn't deaf!

Modern small bass cabs are much less efficient (this means quieter!) than the bigass old classic bins. Modern bass SS amps need hundreds of watts because frankly, they are "lame ass, girly man" units as well!

To a tech, the story reads like this: Manufacturers can make SS amps cheaper and they also believe that lighter cabinets sell easier than heavier ones. They know full well they don't perform like the older stuff but they've looked after that with marketing hype!

Paul, if you were ever in a band and had to compete with a bass player using a big tube bass amp and a full-sized bass cabinet, I bet a case of beer that he would literally blow you and your SS rig right off the stage! It would sound like you were using a little 10 watt SS practice amp!

I have no quarrel with folks who LIKE a lightweight solid state amp and cab! To each their own. However, when someone claims that tube amps can't do the job I take that as the claim of someone who never got out much!:smile:

I suggest the fellow look for an old Traynor Bass Mate. Only 30 watts but it will surprise you! Run it into a REAL bass cab and it will keep up in small clubs just nicely!

:food-smiley-004:


----------



## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

Wild Bill said:


> I have no quarrel with folks who LIKE a lightweight solid state amp and cab! To each their own. However, when someone claims that tube amps can't do the job I take that as the claim of someone who never got out much!:smile:
> 
> I suggest the fellow look for an old Traynor Bass Mate. Only 30 watts but it will surprise you! Run it into a REAL bass cab and it will keep up in small clubs just nicely!
> 
> :food-smiley-004:


Amen!!! Preach it brother! I may be an old coot now too (turned 28 today), but I love the sound of a bass guitar with tube tone. I thought I would have to go SS for a bass amp, but discovered my YGL-3a can bring it, with better tone than I was even dreaming of.
I would try getting the low-watt amp to satisfy his guitar needs first, then, experiment with another external (big-ass) cabinet for bass. But, you never know, the combo itself might be fine depending on his needs. 
Well, it will all come down to your tastes. Try stuff and see what you like.


----------



## rounDSound (Jan 14, 2007)

just to clarify a few issues,

i've done the massive wattage bass thing, and at this point i'm just looking for something to practice bass on when i'm not playing double bass. playing an electric bass acoustic is pretty useless, so anything that's an improvement on that without running risk of blowing speakers is good.

compromise is definitely the name of the game here. i just want something to amplify my electric instruments and play some pedals with the kind of tube feel i've grown used to. 

i guess i should have been less strict in my qualifications.

thanks for the input guys. :wave:


----------



## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

How about an Ampeg B-15 

there's a B15N on kijjiji in Calgary


----------



## Michelle (Aug 21, 2006)

Wild Bill said:


> .............
> I suggest the fellow look for an old Traynor Bass Mate. Only 30 watts but it will surprise you! Run it into a REAL bass cab and it will keep up in small clubs just nicely!
> 
> :food-smiley-004:


I was wondering if I squeezed a 15" in my YGM-3 what it would sound like, hmmm

I agree with you on big tube bass amps Bill, though I would suggest that an 8X10 Ampeg would sound great with any head, tube or ss, 165lbs though, 60lb cabs are bad enough.

RounDSound; Shoretyus has a good suggestion, also check out an Ampeg 100W combo, sure sound 'Ampeg' to me.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

guys, i dont think that he wants this amp for bass, just wants to be able to use his bass with it as well..

i could be wrong.


----------



## Michelle (Aug 21, 2006)

Budda said:


> guys, i dont think that he wants this amp for bass, just wants to be able to use his bass with it as well..
> 
> i could be wrong.


Yeah, I realized that after I posted Budda.


----------



## rounDSound (Jan 14, 2007)

Budda said:


> guys, i dont think that he wants this amp for bass, just wants to be able to use his bass with it as well..
> 
> i could be wrong.


that is the case.


----------



## a Pack of Wolves (Sep 5, 2007)

guitar and bass in the same box is a bit difficult

fender blues jr. or an epi valve jr. for guitar 
if yer talkin' lower cost/ready to go as is/new stuff

small solid state boxes are good for low cost bass boxes
...peavey


----------



## peter benn (Mar 29, 2007)

Try a Blues Jr. for a guitar amp. They have their limitations, but they have versatility. On the used market they are fairly easy to buy. Their weak points are all pretty well known (input jack, reverb pan connections, lack of a BF Fender sound) but the stock speaker is the same one as the contemporary 40-watt Blues Deluxe had, and the BJ is only pushing 15 watts through it.

I confess to sometimes using my '99 BJ as a low-level bass amp for condo-volume practice. The sound isn't great, but will do, and the lack of real bass keeps the neighbours happier.

As a guitar amp a BJ is pretty useful in small venues, and it carries on the bus.

Peter


----------



## rounDSound (Jan 14, 2007)

peter benn said:


> Try a Blues Jr. for a guitar amp. They have their limitations, but they have versatility. On the used market they are fairly easy to buy. Their weak points are all pretty well known (input jack, reverb pan connections, lack of a BF Fender sound) but the stock speaker is the same one as the contemporary 40-watt Blues Deluxe had, and the BJ is only pushing 15 watts through it.
> 
> I confess to sometimes using my '99 BJ as a low-level bass amp for condo-volume practice. The sound isn't great, but will do, and the lack of real bass keeps the neighbours happier.
> 
> ...


you know, i've never played a blues junior. i'll have to give it a go. i did recently get a chance to play around with a vox ac15cc, and i absolutely loved it. very cool clean sound.


----------



## Geek (Jun 5, 2007)

CK Amps Roctal :wink:


----------



## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

How about a BF Champ? I've been impressed with mine that I just built, particularly fond of the volume range that is actually usable indoors. Can still get it loud enough for anything I would use it for most days of the year too. Don't know if a single 6V6 is what you are thinking exactly, and maybe you are thinking along completely different lines, but I thought I would suggest it.


----------



## rounDSound (Jan 14, 2007)

did you buy the champ as a kit, or assemble the pieces yourself?


----------



## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

rounDSound said:


> did you buy the champ as a kit, or assemble the pieces yourself?


I bought it as a kit from Ceriatone and assembled it from those pieces. Champs are pretty easy to find all the parts for yourself though (apparently). I was just given a (very extreme) deal on mine when I ordered my JCM800 kit and asked about a champ at the same time. Since I was paying for shipping at the time anyways...
The only thing is that the champ kits don't come with face-plates. We'll see if my attempts to beautify it don't end up looking ridiculous.


----------

