# Will Jim Balsillie Succeed In Moving Coyotes?



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

What are the chances here?


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

The NHL and that idiot Bettman will have to cave...more money being offered, more money possible in Hamilton...If they don't cave here, I think Canadian fans will slowly revolt.

~Andrew


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I'm a dyed in the wool cradle Leafs fan and I'd love the Coyotes to move to Ontario. Bettman is a bozo, and he's leading the NHL down a road that will be historically embarrassing. 

But what most folks don't realize is the real reason they don't want to move the Coyotes is Wayne Gretzky doesn't want to move into his old bedroom...or something like that.

We live in hope.

Peace, Mooh.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Someone here knows maybe, but what is it exactly that the NHL has against Balsillie? It's never been reported, at least in what I've read.

Anyways, despite the money on the table from Jim, all the rest of the cards are stacked deeply against him so I voted 'no'. As much as any of you, I'd like to see more teams in Canada.....I grew up in Winnipeg and it broke my heart when the Jets moved out.


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

keto said:


> Someone here knows maybe, but what is it exactly that the NHL has against Balsillie? It's never been reported, at least in what I've read.
> 
> Anyways, despite the money on the table from Jim, all the rest of the cards are stacked deeply against him so I voted 'no'. As much as any of you, I'd like to see more teams in Canada.....I grew up in Winnipeg and it broke my heart when the Jets moved out.


the only thing I can recall was that he started taking deposits for an NHL team in Hamilton, calling them expressions of interest. I think that kind of embarrassed the league.

I voted no as well, but that was mainly pessimism. I do think the Coyotes will move, but I think the NHL will win the court battle, and sell to Reinsdorf privately anyways. I hope Jim B wins, and I hope NHL doesn't turn it in to a decade long joke to take the appeals to the highest courts in the land, as they have already.

I have also lost a great deal of respect for #99 for leaving his team out to dry during training camp. He's getting paid $7 million to coach, and can't be bothered to show up because he's not sure if he will get canned by whoever the new owner is for having such a ridiculous contract (and being a lousy coach)


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

keto said:


> Someone here knows maybe, but what is it exactly that the NHL has against Balsillie? It's never been reported, at least in what I've read.
> 
> Anyways, despite the money on the table from Jim, all the rest of the cards are stacked deeply against him so I voted 'no'. As much as any of you, I'd like to see more teams in Canada.....I grew up in Winnipeg and it broke my heart when the Jets moved out.


Because they haven't allowed him to use the "front doors" to getting a team, he had to use "back doors" they don't like this...they don't feel he's in it for the right reasons, yet Bettman wants to put a team in Vegas...yeah that's hockey country...

they don't like Balsillie because he wants to return hockey to Canada, this goes against Buttman's idea for the league.

~Andrew


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

kw_guitarguy said:


> Because they haven't allowed him to use the "front doors" to getting a team, he had to use "back doors" they don't like this...they don't feel he's in it for the right reasons, yet Bettman wants to put a team in Vegas...yeah that's hockey country...
> 
> they don't like Balsillie because he wants to return hockey to Canada, this goes against Buttman's idea for the league.
> 
> ~Andrew


I know this stuff, I just think (and very much could be wrong, but have a strong intuition) that there's something more, something about Balsillie, or something else he's done, that maybe isn't widely known.

As to Gretzky, it's my understanding that he's owed money by the team and therefore under no obligation, basically his contract is void. Again, just my understanding, certainly not a legal opinion. And I don't think he's much of a coach anyways, team is probably better off without him.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

I hope so, but here is whats stacked up against him:
If the NHL holds strong and prevents the team from moving out of Phoenix, when the dust settles, the NHL can turn around and sell brand new franchises in Hamilton, Winnipeg and Quebec City for big$$$, and then let Phoenix callapse. In that case, they stand to make millions, so his upping of his bid is peanuts. Its unfortunate but the NHL is run by money....


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

As much as I agree with the comments about Betteman I have to say that Balsille is somewhat of a putz as well. Yes he's popular here because he wants to bring a team here but he has to understand that he's not going to just waltz in and tell the NHL how its going to go. He seems to want to do it his way. You want to join an exclusive club then you gotta play by the rules. 
He wants to bring a low value market team in to a high market value area. And everybodys in love with him. Wait till he eventually gets a team here and runs it like the ghost of Ballard.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Some developments today



> PHOENIX — Canadian billionaire Jim Balsillie has pledged to keep the Phoenix Coyotes in Glendale this season if he wins an auction for the financially troubled club.
> 
> His lawyers say the club would play in Glendale this season, which opens Oct. 3, but Balsillie still intends to move the team to Hamilton as part of his US$242.5 million bid.
> 
> ...


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

both sides kind of look bad here- both made some arguably stupid moves- but i believe that bettman, and the nhl, would much prefer to find a market in the states that will embrace a team. its all about money. 
here in canada, we all are already watching hockey. if we can, we also pay for it. its not like a new team in canada will gain a substantial amount of hockey fans, itll just take already existing fans, and move theyre interest elsewhere. not much for the nhl to gain in that.
the idea is, to bring nhl hockey to an area in the u.s that doesnt already have hockey fans, and use that to develope new ones. more fans = more money. solid business plan really.

hamilton could benefit hugely from an nhl team- its what it needs right now, but thats not going to benefit the nhl, or by the nhls definition, hockey itself in any way.

sure would be nice though:smile:


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Some developments today


Even with those changes, I still think Balsillie is a dark horse here. The NHL owners and commissioner are pretty much 100% against him. I'd love to see a team next door to me, because then I might actually be able to watch some live NHL hockey, but it's not looking good.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Well, he'll probably lose, but I wish to hell he would win.



The chicken $hit protectionist A-holes who are afraid of competition need a kick in the pants IMO.


I attended the Leafs / Penguins Game on Tuesday evening. It was a great game, packed to the rafters.


I'm quite sure the market can bear another team on Southern Ontario.


It would be best for the consumers, and maybe the Leafs management might be motivated to try and win for a change.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Well, he'll probably lose, but I wish to hell he would win.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is what it should be about, right? The fans? 

The NHL has lost sight of what it's like to be anyone (speaking from a middle-aged guy perspective) who remembers what it was like to play road hockey, pond hockey, shinny, imagining themselves as Richard, Keon, Gretzky, or Sundin, or the feeling of loyalty and sportsmanship that the *fans* have. It has to be a business in order to operate and organize, but it's a business about sport, culture, and heritage.

Bring teams to where the fans are. SW Ontario is ripe with them.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog...uts-himself-Coyotes-out-of-coa?urn=nhl,191827


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Dave King, Ulf Samuelsson. Hmmm...should work.

Peace, Mooh.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Mooh said:


> This is what it should be about, right? The fans?
> 
> The NHL has lost sight of what it's like to be anyone (speaking from a middle-aged guy perspective) who remembers what it was like to play road hockey, pond hockey, shinny, imagining themselves as Richard, Keon, Gretzky, or Sundin, or the feeling of loyalty and sportsmanship that the *fans* have. It has to be a business in order to operate and organize, but it's a business about sport, culture, and heritage.
> 
> ...


Same as the NFL. I was always hoping they would put an NFL team in Toronto. But after spending many years running around in the states and seeing what happens over there each fall I don't think it would work here. They get 2000 people out to pop warner league games over there. Most high schools have seating for at least 4000 and more. College games are 80,000 to 100,000 fans. It's their game, we just dont have that kind of grass roots support. Now hockey is fairly big in Michigan but the majority of the country could care less.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

*Gretzky Finished With Hockey*

Intersting development involving the Coyote situation.




> When the phone rang in his Brantford home yesterday Walter Gretzky said he had no idea it would be his son, Wayne, telling him he is no longer going to be involved with the Phoenix Coyotes or the National Hockey League.
> 
> “I was stunned,” said venerable 70-year-old Walter, adding he can’t imagine his 48-year-old son, Wayne, not having some connection to hockey.
> 
> ...


Source: Canoe Sports


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

> He said Wayne expressed to him “his disappointment” and that he “didn’t get the backing of the NHL” and is “all on his own.”


Another reason Betteman will look like a putz.


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## Marnacious (Dec 30, 2005)

guitarman2 said:


> Another reason Betteman will look like a putz.


I just read a large article in Maclean's on Balsillie and it essentially paints him as a lying, two faced, sub-human. Totally untrustworthy and a man that nobody in the NHL wants anything to do with.

Interesting.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Marnacious said:


> I just read a large article in Maclean's on Balsillie and it essentially paints him as a lying, two faced, sub-human. Totally untrustworthy and a man that nobody in the NHL wants anything to do with.
> 
> Interesting.


It might be interesting to see similar articles about Bettman and some of the existing NHL owners.



The fact of the matter is that it could be Sister Teresa making a bid to bring a team to Hamilton and the Leafs would still find a way to drag her through the mud.

This isn't the first attempt as we know.


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

Marnacious said:


> I just read a large article in Maclean's on Balsillie and it essentially paints him as a lying, two faced, sub-human. Totally untrustworthy and a man that nobody in the NHL wants anything to do with.
> 
> Interesting.


by-line: G Bettman. :smile:

Balsillie is definitely a corporate bully, and awfully quick to litigate. But so is Katz (Oilers). 

what the hell.... lets go down the list:
Preds - Delbaggio is in prison
Kings -McNall was in prison
Ducks - Samueli is in prison
Sabres - Rigas brothers both in prison
Islanders - remember John Spano? prison.
Devils - Dennis Kozlowski was a minority owner. prison.
Sharks - Greg Reyes. prison
Islanders again - Sanjay Kumar. prison
Tampa - Not in prison, but I don't know where to begin with these clowns.

I am sure i am missing some, but the point is: NHL is hardly an organization to be turning its nose up at Balsillie over his business practices.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

puckhead said:


> by-line: G Bettman. :smile:
> 
> Balsillie is definitely a corporate bully, and awfully quick to litigate. But so is Katz (Oilers).
> 
> ...


That kind of bursts the bubble there


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

AND



I love my Blackberrie Bold.:bow:


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I would love to see a successful NHL franchise in Hamilton, the same way I would love to see a successful CFL franchise in Halifax. Whether it will happen, or would be sustainable, even if it did happen, is a whole other thing.

At some point, the Blackberry bubble will burst, and the team will have to find another owner. I'm not throwing stones at RIM. I'm just saying that technology is fickle, that it's a market many other competitors wish to have a market share of, and if Balsillie's capacity to adequately fund the franchise stumbles, Hamilton is left in the lurch. Now, it is also the case that a great many other owners are also quick-to-be-made-quick-to-be-lost millionnaires, so Balsillie is not unique. But people should understand that selling the team to Balsillie, and situating it in Hamilton is not a slam-dunk-sure-thing. It is still a risk, of sorts.

Hamilton is essentially equidistant between two other NHL markets: Toronto and Buffalo. I don't know what the market research shows, but it is hard for me to imagine a Hamilton team NOT siphoning off ticket sales from the Buffalo and Toronto markets, just as it is hard for me to imagine those markets not impacting on Hamilton ticket sales.

One thing Hamilton does have going for it in terms of long-term viability is that, unlike our own Scotiabank place here in Ottawa, Copps Coliseum is right downtown, where regular folks can get to it easily. I was recently in Nashville, and I have to say that the location of the Sommet Center in the heart of the city appears to increase the sense of ownership. The Jobing Arena where the Coyotes play is in Glendale, Arizona, across the street from the University of Phoenix stadium. While not in the downtown core and seemingly out in the sticks like the Scotiabank Place, a quick scan reveals that the arena is hosting a LOT of big concerts, and generally the sort of concerts that would pass by Hamilton and go straight to Hogtown. I know little about the finances of major arenas, but part of me says that likely puts less onus on the Phoenix franchise with respect to upkeep of the arena.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I don't see a Hamilton team siphoning ticket sales from the Leafs--they sell a ton of tickets and there are ton of fans that still want to buy them that can't--they may siphon some from Buffalo though.


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## stoptail (Sep 22, 2009)

I hope Mr Sillyballs gets the team , we need more teams back in Canada , and a I think Hamilton would be a great hockey market with diehard gritty blue collar fans , the best kind .


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

It's all over. Denied again.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Phoenix/2009/10/01/11226441-sun.html


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Coming soon, a brand new franchise in Hamilton........


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> It's all over. Denied again.
> 
> http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Phoenix/2009/10/01/11226441-sun.html


I'm almost shocked that he gave in. The only winners here folks were the lawyers!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I'm almost shocked that he gave in. The only winners here folks were the lawyers!


And the owners of the Leafs and Sabres.


The losers? us.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I guess the poll results hit it right.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I guess the poll results hit it right.


I'm not so sure.

The NHL claims they hate him, and they may, but truthfully as we all know, this is not the first person to attempt to bring a franchise to Hamilton.

A more acurate poll selection might have been "no, the NHL is afraid of open competition".


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I really haven't followed hockey for a few decades now. It got to be such a mess with all the expansion teams. Too many teams, too many players, making too much money, too confusing to sort it all out. I think the qualifier for having an NHL team in your city is that you have to be able to go outside in february and skate on the pond. I mean, really, hockey in Arizona and Florida, etc.? 
They ought to cut back on the number of teams and just let the "elite" players make it. Cut ticket prices so the average Joe can take his family out to the arena and see a game a few times a year, with decent seats.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

I agree on cutting back the number of teams, but the facts are the NHL will be putting a team in Hamilton soon, and dilute things even more...........


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

Jim DaddyO said:


> I think the qualifier for having an NHL team in your city is that you have to be able to go outside in february and skate on the pond.


Well, that's getting to be harder and harder, even in some of our northern cities, let alone down in the U.S. I'm partial to the one I came up with when they started moving teams to the sunny resort states. If you can't go to the local sporting goods store/Wal-Mart/department store and buy a hockey stick or a net with the four clip-on foam targets, then getta out the game!! I've got a buddy who was visiting family in San Diego a few years back. Him and his cousins decided to play a game of road hockey. Well. Holy $hit, not one but several uptight neighbours came by, drove buy to inform them that what they were doing was a danger to children and drivers alike. They "should know better than to play in the road, with so many children in the neighbourhood". So much for yelling "CAR!!"


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