# Getting a full sound at low volume



## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Just wondering if there is a secret to achieving a great full tone at low volume from your amp. Low wattage amp cranked up, bigger speaker etc.. Opinions?
Thanks


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

If you're talking living room levels, the best experience I've had is either a tube amp with a good master volume on board or an attenuator. Example: I have a 5E3 clone and they are known to be very loud. I use it with a Swart night light which has 4 levels of attenuation and it's the only thing that makes this amp usable where I live.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

London Power Power Scaling.

londonpower.com

Everything else is... you know. 

I have it on two units, and imho:

Everything else is...


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I find that pedals can do the trick, for me at least. I keep my amp at 4 - 5 most times but using a clean boost or slightly pushed overdrive pedal can add a lot of body to the sound.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

I use an attenuator but you can still only reduce the sound levels a bit before it sounds flat and compressed. I use a Z air brake mini on 1 or 2 clicks max (about a 2 dB cut) 

If I need a great, fat sound at low volumes a low gain OD before the amp seems to work best for me, something like a Klon, Honeybee or a Timmy.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Interesting. I had not thought of attenuators. I find that at band practice and when doing small gigs at low levels, i just cant get a nice full sound without cranking my amp up and being told i am too loud.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

They work well if you need to cut the volume just a bit, as you increase the attenuation, they basically compress out all the dynamics, as well as reducing the highs. Some of the attenuators can compensate to a degree, but most work well from about 2-5 dB attenuation.

If you use a PA with monitors you could also run the amp into something like a mesa cab clone and run the line out directly to a PA. I have used one in the past and they sound quite good.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

I use cotton balls in my ear to get full sound at lower volume !!!


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

zdogma said:


> They work well if you need to cut the volume just a bit, as you increase the attenuation, they basically compress out all the dynamics, as well as reducing the highs. Some of the attenuators can compensate to a degree, but most work well from about 2-5 dB attenuation.
> 
> If you use a PA with monitors you could also run the amp into something like a mesa cab clone and run the line out directly to a PA. I have used one in the past and they sound quite good.


I actually mic my amp at 99% of our gigs. Last week playing a small hall for older folks, i wasnt miked and was told to turn my volume down to a point i could hardly hear myself. Very frustrating. Just cant get enough roundness out of the amp at these low volumes so was considering a small wattage 4-5 watt amp with a 12 in. speaker.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Power Scaling. Check it out.

As zdogma correctly pointed out, attenuators will affect the sound (no matter what the manufacturer claims).

Using pedals is a great (less costly) solution, and you may have to go that way, but you will be listening to the pedal. Power Scaling gives you the cranked sound of YOUR AMP.

It works for these guys:

Suhr, Ritter, Reeves, Mojave, Kingsley, Stephenson, Davies, Oxygen, Soultone, ACR, Circuitrix, King, Reinhart, Egnater, Fargen, MTW, Rat, Lehnert.

In Quebec: Kevin Kaiser can install PS in your amp. www.kaiseramplification.ca

More (MUCH MORE!!) info at London Power website. Or phone and talk to Kevin in person.

Everything else is...

Not as good.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

An EQ pedal. I've noticed that the lows and mid-lows tend to thin out a bit at low volumes. I ad them back in with an EQ pedal.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

For me, it's pedals that does that for me. As mentioned though, you will be hearing mostly what pedal you are using. I actually have my amp as clean as possible and add a pedal when I need it to be overdriven.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Let's get one thing straight - if your pedal sounds great, no one's going to care that it's a pedal they are hearing 

One of my friends (fellow guitarist) saw us live for the first time this summer. He was in disbelief when I later told him my amp is clean and my dirt is from a Fulltone OCD.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

I guess it will come down to what you consider 'great' full tone. You can improve it a lot with attenuators or power scaling, but it will always be some compromise compared to real volume. It's the way our ears work. That's assuming you are talking about fairly low volumes like conversation or bedroom level.


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## fretzel (Aug 8, 2014)

For late night playing, I absolutely love my Marshall SL5. Great cleans and Dirt channels. Plus takes pedals extremely well. 5w and 1w modes.


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## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

I use my Mesa Tone Burst Pedal to accentuate extremely clean with low noise. An EQ pedal will also work, but usually much more noise can be heard when the playing gets silent.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

KapnKrunch said:


> London Power Power Scaling.
> 
> londonpower.com
> 
> ...


A well-designed master is as good imho and quite a bit cheaper and less complex. I've done them both and mostly do MV's now.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

I use an '80's Marshall solid state amp 99% of the time at home. it sounds great & no tubes to buy

jamming I get good results with the MV in my amp

also use a Fulltone OCD sometimes, I find they work quite well


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## aC2rs (Jul 9, 2007)

Interesting and timely thread, as I was about to ask the same question.

My current main amp is a low powered VOX AC10C1.
It has a master volume control and it gets a lot of _good_ tones at low volumes, however, turning up the volume the tones become _great_ - but my ears just don't do that loud any more.
I would love to get the cranked tones at lower volumes.

Tone controls do a good job at compensating for the different voices of my guitars, but not for getting "cranked" tones.
Putting a distortion pedal in front of a low powered tube amp seems to be counter productive but I may have to give it a try ...


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Chito said:


> For me, it's pedals that does that for me. As mentioned though, you will be hearing mostly what pedal you are using. I actually have my amp as clean as possible and add a pedal when I need it to be overdriven.


I hear you buddy. I like the sound of my amp when its cranked up. Very


aC2rs said:


> Interesting and timely thread, as I was about to ask the same question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I actually have the same amp. Coincidence! I agree that it gets all the right tones at higher volume but wondering if a 12 in. speaker at low volume would help fatten up the sound a bit. Bear in mind that one of the trios i play with is a low volume classic country band and we play a lot of retirement homes and Legion halls so playing lower and softer is a must. Anyone try the Vox AC4 C1 with 12 in speaker?


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

I thought you'd be able to get away with more, playing to deaf old people 

( joke - I am well on my way to becoming a " deaf old person " myself )


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

There is another option but it only works if you intend to mic your amp or listen through phones out of a board. Sound guys love these things because it helps them with the overall sound; ie: house mix versus stage spill. I've seen them used mostly in church worship services which is kind of goofy to my way of thinking. Churches that advocate them like to insist that God isn't deaf so you don't need to be so loud. My thinking is that he's also not jumpy in the slightest and that he invented the loudest things in the universe and also advocates making a joyful noise. Churchy stuff aside, these things are great in the home studio. I've been considering getting one for a few years now.

Silent Sister | Rivera Amplification


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

I think either a 1W or 5W amp regardless of speaker size are still going to be too loud for your retirement home gigs without a MV or some other kind of attenuation. I have a friend that plays his 1W Marshall head through a 4-12 and there's nothing quiet about it.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Good advice in this thread. 

I generally go for a master volume but sometimes add pedals (gain and eq). Tried an Eminence Reignmaker for a while but switched to a Cannabis Rex. For me, at low volume it's crucial to get as much signal to the amp as possible, the amp can't make a weak signal sound good to my ears.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

bolero said:


> I thought you'd be able to get away with more, playing to deaf old people
> 
> ( joke - I am well on my way to becoming a " deaf old person " myself )


One would think.LOL. I am the one with severe earing lost in all of the trios i play in.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

BMW-KTM said:


> There is another option but it only works if you intend to mic your amp or listen through phones out of a board. Sound guys love these things because it helps them with the overall sound; ie: house mix versus stage spill. I've seen them used mostly in church worship services which is kind of goofy to my way of thinking. Churches that advocate them like to insist that God isn't deaf so you don't need to be so loud. My thinking is that he's also not jumpy in the slightest and that he invented the loudest things in the universe and also advocates making a joyful noise. Churchy stuff aside, these things are great in the home studio. I've been considering getting one for a few years now.
> 
> Silent Sister | Rivera Amplification


Thanks. I had never herd of this system


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i like low wattage heads into a good 12"cab. like some of the others, i use an ocd for dirt. of all the boxes i've tried so far, i like it the best. but it is easily the loudest, too. it is unlike some other pedals in that it acts very differently depending on what amp i am using.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

WCGill said:


> A well-designed master is as good imho and quite a bit cheaper and less complex. I've done them both and mostly do MV's now.


Thats very interesting. Thanks.

I appreciate that input into this thread, which for the most part has been about getting a DIFFERENT cranked sound by using a variety of other devices added into the signal chain.

I guess if you are using a so-so amp, it doesn't matter.

I toggle the guitar between a $3500 amp and a $800 amp. I love them both for different reasons. But there is no way that the absolutely marvellous sound of the custom-built amp is getting effed by stompbox/EQ/attenuator/whatever. The cheap amp is there for the phony sounds and the changes introduced by multiple devices.

If your expensive amp isn't producing excellent sound AT LOW OR HIGH VOLUME (if that's what you need), then you need something else. But if your needs could be met by another off-the-shelf amp, just go with any of the practical solutions offered in this thread.

PROPERLY implemented master volume is DEEP WATER and not for the inexperienced, timid, or impoverished. Power Scaling is the same.

And not everyone is doing Power Scaling right. Getting down to one watt is still too loud (this has been mentioned in this thread). Properly applied PS should get you down into milliwatts without ruining your tone, according to its inventor. (I can easily speak to someone in a normal voice while my amp rages with no gizmos attached.)

Marcos, now that I read thru this thread again, I see that its not necessarily distortion that you need at a lower volume. Playing for seniors and all. 

I have had low wattage tube amps but they start to break up at fairly low volume unless you use compressionto tame your signal. Maybe you need a decent little solid state amp for those Legion gigs.

Or how about this. Check out the A.R.C. By FMR audio. Although favoured by acoustic guitarists, it would be interesting hear what idoes for enriching the sound of electric.

Best of luck in your quest.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Sadly, Fletcher Munson is always going to be a factor. It never sounds as good quiet. We have to compensate with loudness curves or something. Also, the sound of a working speaker compared to an idling speaker is a factor. I think it's pretty hard to get a quiet sound similar to a cranked sound without some sort of eq.

The best I've found though is the Fryette PowerStation. Crank any amp into it and adjust that sound - plus tweek both the reactive load and power amp eq's. And you can take a line out through the board for live or if you want to play through IR's and a laptop. It works on every amp you own, no mods required.


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

One can only go so low... lol
But seriously on every master or non master amp I've ever owned whether using an attenuator or not the volume starts out at a level where you can hear the amp but it sounds like a transistor radio. So imho a whisper is not a usable volume. Keep turning the volume until the low mids and lows come in and fill out the tone. In my experience that's been a volume that I would describe as a raised speaking voice. At my house in the middle of the night with everyone in bed sleeping, this volume will disrupt everyone's slumber for sure. Speakers wont make a difference but headphones will


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

High/Deaf said:


> Sadly, Fletcher Munson is always going to be a factor. It never sounds as good quiet. We have to compensate with loudness curves or something.


Fletcher Munson. Probably the truest words so far in this thread.

As far as adjusting with extraneous electronics goes, you are probably right there too.

I think this is the case with loudspeaker systems. We have tiny PA's that deliver "big" sound by processing the snot out of the signal and running it thru a trillion watt class D amp to compensate for the physical lameness and electronic inefficiency of the system.

My son is a mastering engineer. No "near-field" nonsense for his ears. The speakers have to be BIG. The acoustic properties of the room are paramount. Snobby analogue gear is the final component.

Thats why my PA is vacuum tube and the speakers are substantial enuff to move air, not technical enuff to fool the ears. Is it better than little boxes on sticks? Nah. Its just what I like. Adequate volume and projection without offensive blasting is my goal.

By the way. I saw Steve Vai recently and the volume was so intense I was worried (without my fancy earplugs), but WOW! No ringing or after effects whatsoever. I don't think I am deaf yet, I think they really knew what they were doing. The security guy told me they spent a lot of time setting up the sound. And everything arrived on a twenty-six foot trailer! They used the house subs.

Fletcher Munson. Thanks for that. Great comment. There is our homework.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

KapnKrunch said:


> Fletcher Munson. Probably the truest words so far in this thread.
> 
> Thats why my PA is vacuum tube and the speakers are substantial enuff to move air, not technical enuff to fool the ears. Is it better than little boxes on sticks? Nah. Its just what I like. Adequate volume and projection without offensive blasting is my goal.
> 
> ...


wow, you use a tube PA system??

what is it an old Traynor? Hiwatt?

ps I saw Steve Vai at Massey Hall, sound was good but his tone sucked IMO. I would like to hear him play a Les Paul thru a cranked non MV Marshall. instead of those plastic guitars with Dimarzio pups, into those crappy amps he uses

( edit - slightly tongue in cheek  )


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

bolero said:


> wow, you use a tube PA system??
> 
> what is it an old Traynor? Hiwatt?
> 
> ...


Haha! I watch Steve's face and fingers. Guitar tone is fairly far down the list with that act. Lol.

Let me brag about the tube PA. It features The Stereo Sixty made especially for me by Mark Stephenson. Serial number 0001. Nevermind how much I paid, altho Mark is one of the most reasonable amp builders out there considering the quality.

I use it in mono/mono full-range. One side drives two Fitzmaurice Jack 12's and the other side drives a fEARful 15/6 Tube cabinet. Speakers made for me by Leland Crooks and finished in white Duratex with chrome hardware. The Stereo Sixty sits on the fEARful cab. Pump up the fEARful side for more bass/turn down the Jack side for less treble. All mono (stereo live is not worth the trouble to me). No crossover other than passive stuff in the boxes. Simple, direct, low tech.

Rackmount Symetrix 528E's process the mic's. Input lines mixed with rackmount Rane SM82, then into PA. Shallow rack case sits on Stephenson with foam spacers for ventilation.

If somebody told me this was all bullshit, I would have to laugh. Probably is. But I'm happy.

It all started with remembering "the good old days" when the "PA" was two spindly columns of six-inch speakers (Shure) powered by a twenty-watt tube amp (Bogen) singing into the hall's bingo mic (square crystal Shure). My "new" system is quite a bit better than that. Lol. But not as much fun somehow. Sigh...


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

Another player here who can struggle with low volume playing. I have smaller amps that really fill out nicely when turned up. My 6G2 sounds so good when up to about half volume. However I also have a 73 Twin Reverb that sounds great at low volume. Seems to me that the big Twin sounds really good at low volume at home. I'm talking about cleans here. I use pedals for dirt.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

THR - Amps - Yamaha - Canada


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

keithb7 said:


> Another player here who can struggle with low volume playing. I have smaller amps that really fill out nicely when turned up. My 6G2 sounds so good when up to about half volume. However I also have a 73 Twin Reverb that sounds great at low volume. Seems to me that the big Twin sounds really good at low volume at home. I'm talking about cleans here. I use pedals for dirt.


I would agree with you. My low volume cleans are much more pleasing to my ears on my 40+W amps than on my 5-15W amps. For cleans I'll take my Super Reverb at 1.5 over my Princeton Reverb clone at 3, any day.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

keithb7 said:


> Another player here who can struggle with low volume playing. I have smaller amps that really fill out nicely when turned up. My 6G2 sounds so good when up to about half volume. However I also have a 73 Twin Reverb that sounds great at low volume. Seems to me that the big Twin sounds really good at low volume at home. I'm talking about cleans here. I use pedals for dirt.


So true about the cleans on big amp. Garnet SessionMaster, ridiculous power, beautiful at low volume. Just add pedal of choice for fun.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

I have to play at low levels too...but am about to go pick up a new 100 watt amp  

Thankfully it has a low power switch but I expect that I will be spending the next few days figuring out how to control the volume on this thing.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

KapnKrunch said:


> Haha! I watch Steve's face and fingers. Guitar tone is fairly far down the list with that act. Lol.
> 
> Let me brag about the tube PA. It features The Stereo Sixty made especially for me by Mark Stephenson. Serial number 0001. Nevermind how much I paid, altho Mark is one of the most reasonable amp builders out there considering the quality.
> 
> ...



WOW......


too bad you're way out in SK, I would love to check that PA out at a gig sometime

I have often wondered if live sound was better, back when everyone used tube PA gear....like the Mac's at Woodstock for example

I find live shows these days can very very strident, and when they crank PA's the sound is almost tearing ( Big Sugar is guilty of cranking their PA to stupid levels, where it just sounds like crap, and it's obviously beyond the specs of the gear. at least the shows I have seen )

I also used to have a '72 Twin Reverb, that worked very well for cleans & then I used a pedal for dirt. I could have stopped there in my "tone searching" and I'd be just as happy today. and saved a lot of $$ 


cheers


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

People probably enjoy the higher wattage amps turned down because they have more headroom regardless of the volume level versus low wattage amps.

I'm about my 50W+ and I don't care haha.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Budda said:


> People probably enjoy the higher wattage amps turned down because they have more headroom regardless of the volume level versus low wattage amps.
> 
> I'm about my 50W+ and I don't care haha.



I would never have considered a 100 watt amp until I stumbled across a Marshall JCM2000 TSL122 for $175+tax (no, that is not a typo). At that price screw the fact that it has way too much power for my needs - I would have been an idiot not to buy it. I just brought it home a little while ago but need to let it come to room temperature before I turn it on as the tubes won't appreciate going from cold to hot so quickly.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Cheapest TSL next to "free"


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

low volumes are not going to produce the awesome sounds most folks are after. you can fake it, but it won't be the same. spending big fat money on high dollar amps or expensive attenuators is money down the toilet. if you have more than $400 tied up in your practice rig you spent way too much, and still won't get what you want. if this wasn't so, bands wouldn't play loud


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

I have a 7 watt setting on my Blackheart that works really well for low vol playing but still has harmonic content. I set up for a little grunt when I have my bridge humbucker cranked, other drive comes from pedals. I use dynamics a lot and this works for me. Low vol for me is as loud as I can sing without amplification. I adjust eq to compensate for any loss to highs or lows compared to louder settings.

I have used yellowjacket tube converters to change a 100 watt Traynor Mark III to a 30 watt vox, but the vol drop was not as significant as hoped. It sounded cool with a vox flavour to the power section though. Ultimately I kept 2 YJs in and put 2 EL34s back for a bit of both worlds.

I've also used an Weber attenuator (the simplest one, not the speaker load one, it was a long while ago) and had one built into the Peavey Windsor studio I had for a short time until it died. Attenuators of that sort work, but no better or worse than master vol IMHO.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

My low volume solution works pretty well (just got the Helix yesterday). It sounds good through the HD-380s and I have a set of monitors waiting under the tree, too. Obviously not for everyone, but it's perfect for me.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

jdto said:


> My low volume solution works pretty well (just got the Helix yesterday). It sounds good through the HD-380s and I have a set of monitors waiting under the tree, too. Obviously not for everyone, but it's perfect for me.


While not everyone's preference, that is the most flexible low level option out there. If I lived in a condo or townhouse instead of a house, I would definitely own a good modeler - and probably 10 less tube amps than I have right now.

Congrats - looks like you'll be having a fun holiday! New gear is so inspiring!


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

High/Deaf said:


> While not everyone's preference, that is the most flexible low level option out there. If I lived in a condo or townhouse instead of a house, I would definitely own a good modeler - and probably 10 less tube amps than I have right now.
> 
> Congrats - looks like you'll be having a fun holiday! New gear is so inspiring!


Thanks, yeah, I am pretty excited about it. 

I had to accept the reality that my tube-equipped Traynors were sitting unused while I played through Positive Grid Bias Amp on my iPad, or unplugged, 95% of the time. We are in an apartment in midtown TO and so I could only play the amps at anything resembling a reasonable volume during the day when the family was out.

I have a feeling my holidays are going to be spent figuring out how to dial in various rigs and tones on this thing, because just from playing around last night, I was able to get a glimpse of how deep it can go. Of course, the first thing I did was dial in a cranked JTM45 with a Klon in front of it and, upon hitting the first note, crack a huge grin. Since I'll likely spend a lot of time playing it through those headphones, I'm glad it sounded that good.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

The Smicz TAC adapters are great for this and have been better than most attenuators. $100, plug and play, sound great and you can keep all your amp's touch and feel.

For really low volume a pedal is probably the way to go.

TG


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

But I find even 1 EL84 cranked (5ish watts) is still PFL. Like trumpet playing loud. Not really an option for apartment dwellers, I would guess.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Can you give more info on those adapters?


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

TAC Tube Adapters Review and Demo. Tame your loud amp.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

cheezyridr said:


> low volumes are not going to produce the awesome sounds most folks are after. you can fake it, but it won't be the same. spending big fat money on high dollar amps or expensive attenuators is money down the toilet. if you have more than $400 tied up in your practice rig you spent way too much, and still won't get what you want. if this wasn't so, bands wouldn't play loud


Cheezy if you are talking about "low" volumes such as at home with other folks around that you don't want to disturb, then I agree. You will only get an "imitation" of "good sound". With any kind of gear. You are right there, man.

The $400 argument. Disagree, bud. You can get much better results by spending more money if you are circumspect about it.

Bands play loud to get good sound. Strongly disagree! Dammit! Lol. 

Bands play loud for effect. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. 

A lot of people that I have known are just plain ignorant about what they are doing. Other than your top tier professionals, most bands I have heard, or played in, just make a mess out of loudness. You want to sound good, choose your venues. If that isn't possible then LOWER the overall volume so the room is producing LESS shitty sound.

On the other hand I have enjoyed many good shows at a reasonable volume.

What do you think, pal? Don't mean to offend. I may have misunderstood...


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Hmm, those TAC things sound interesting. I would need to grab two sets for the four EL34s in my amp.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

definitely when i say low volumes, i mean television/radio levels. to play at those levels you won't need to spend alot to get the best possible sound.

when i say that bands play loud to get a good sound i mean this, if i can say the way i mean it:

a speaker does it's job when it's able to move a minimum amount of air. what that level is i don't know, but i know that any guitar speaker i ever heard, had a volume level where it sounded the best it could. although different for each amp/speaker match-up, every one i ever heard was louder than how you would practice in your living room, with a few lucky exceptions here and there.
a practice amp is meant for _personal_ practice. it's not intended to keep up with a basement drummer and bass player. electronic drums allow the drummer to play at any level one might desire. drums are no longer the reason a band is loud in a bar. you could actually plug everyone into a an in-ear monitor set up, and run all of the instruments through a board, allowing you to play quiet enough that the patrons could conversate during the show. 
but no one does this because most of the instruments found in the avg bar band sound best at volumes above what you might find in a home.


5 watts is the outfield of a practice amp's territory. beyond that and it's not a practice amp any more. yet 5 watts gets fairly loud. louder than most of us would play in our living room, and most certainly too much for 99% of all apts. you can easily get too loud for those with the ac4tvh, which switches down to 1/4 watt. paired with my 12" cab, the ac4 sounded pretty good cranked up. so did the special 6 (6 watts) and the lil' nitetrain (2 watts)
played quietly at television volumes, they all sounded exactly the same.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

colchar said:


> Hmm, those TAC things sound interesting. I would need to grab two sets for the four EL34s in my amp.


They are really cool and you can certainly run 4 of them in an amp.

The other great thing about them,that I didn't demo, is their ability to get your amp to the verge of break up without being really loud. This magical "sweet spot" makes all your pedals come alive and also lets you go back to completely clean with a slight turn of your guitar's volume knob. So even if volume is a really big concern and you still cannot completely crank your amp, the TACs are still really useful. 

TG


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

traynor_garnet said:


> They are really cool and you can certainly run 4 of them in an amp.
> 
> The other great thing about them,that I didn't demo, is their ability to get your amp to the verge of break up without being really loud. This magical "sweet spot" makes all your pedals come alive and also lets you go back to completely clean with a slight turn of your guitar's volume knob. So even if volume is a really big concern and you still cannot completely crank your amp, the TACs are still really useful.
> 
> TG



I picked up a Marshall JCM2000 TSL122 for an insane price earlier this week. It has a low power switch and I'm shocked by how controllable the volume on this beast is when using that feature. There is also a trick (mentioned in the manual) that allows you to use the effects level control as a master volume that I plan to try over the weekend. If I find that I still want to lower the volume I will look into these. Thanks for spreading info on them.


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