# Attenuator: Teach me, please!



## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Okay, I have this YBA-1 I LOVE but my girlfriend and my cat think it can be too loud... So, I need to tame it down a bit.

I've been reading about attenuators lately but I am not quite sure what would suits my needs.

I know I need to respect the ohms and the wattage but other than that, what are the specs to look for?

Also, I saw some attenuator that can be used to play with headphones and with a cab simulator to record (like the Mesa Cab Clone), is it a good way to go to get everything in the same package?

Thanks for the help!!!


----------



## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

The attenuators are great for keeping volumes down but you do lose some of the high end cut of playing at higher volumes. There are a lot of good units - I've tried THD, Dr. Z Brake and the Ironman and they were all quite good for what they do. I currently have the Ironman II that comes stock in the Tone King Imperial II amp and it's probably my fave out of the bunch. I haven't used an attenuator that has a headphone jack. I find that attenuators really shine when the volume is loud and the unit takes off a slight edge - they work really well in that context (but the volume is still relatively loud).

Another option to consider is to get a digital unit (POD, etc.) or amp for late night playing. I found this to be the best compromise in keeping the volume down and having a good tone. ymmv.


----------



## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

I have used the Weber and Dr Z brake lite. Both are good, but my experience is the same as Alex, they take the volume from deafening to just loud. If you try to attenuate to bedroom level it will compress out all the dynamics and a lot of high end. For gigs they are very useful. I use the brake lite mounted in my Kingsley cab on 1-2 clicks pretty much all the time with every amp. Thats a pretty small attenuation (1.6-3dB I think) but it make a difference for me (my ears don't ring) and it allows the singer to hear herself on stage.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I agree with the previous comments - good for taking a bit of level out but won't get you to bedroom levels, if that's what you're after. YBA-1's are loud, taking 3 or even 6 dB out may not make much difference anywhere but on a stage with a band. 

Reamping is another option (Fryette, BadCat) but you still have the lack of speaker distortion and the Fletcher-Munson curve to contend with. Nothing is the same as an amp played loud in an acoustic space, it's just a question of how close you can get. Digital modeling is certainly getting better all the time.


----------



## CDWaterloo (Jul 18, 2008)

I used to have the same problem. I tried many attenuators and digital alternatives. I didn't liked the digital units I have tried (especially with fuzz pedals). For me, THD works great. 

There are different ways of using an attenuator. I think the key point is how much you want to attenuate the volume. I used to have a Fender SuperSonic 60W head. I tried it with attenuators at bedroom levels. I did not like how it sounded. Then, I bought a 5-watt amp and cranked it up, which was quite loud. THD worked great with it at bedroom levels. I am still using them. It's also worked just fine with my Dr. Z MAZ18NR amp in my basement. So the key is if you want to use it in an apartment at whisper levels, first find a very good small wattage amp, and use it with an attenuator. At basement levels, it works just fine with my 18w Dr Z amp. 

I also use my THD as a load box without connecting to a speaker. Guitar -> Pedals -> Amp -> THD -> Line Out of THD -> MXR 10 band EQ -> Audio Interface -> Guitar Rig 4 (only speaker cab sims). I use this for headphone practices and recording. I am very happy with the result.


----------



## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

I wasn't sure about the power of a YBA-1 so I looked it up. Specs say it has a master volume (power attenuator) built in. Is this correct and does it not do the job? Asking out of pure ignorance of course.

The reason I looked up the power rating is this. I live in a townhouse. I own a few amps, one being a 5E3 (tweed deluxe) and as anyone who owns one knows, to get the 5E3 tone than they are famous for, they need to be loud. Plus, all of the volume on these is in about the first 3-4 digits and after that it's just dirtier. So, I bought a Swart Night Light. It has 4 levels of attenuation down to TV or conversation level without giving up a lot of tone. Problem solved for me but they are limited to amps that put out about 20W.


----------



## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

Swervin55 said:


> I wasn't sure about the power of a YBA-1 so I looked it up. Specs say it has a master volume (power attenuator) built in. Is this correct and does it not do the job? Asking out of pure ignorance of course.


That's the new YBA 1 MOD1. Actually I went through this awhile back with my '74 YBA1 - search the threads. One of the first things people do when they buy one of these beasts is look for an attenuator! 

I ended up selling mine and going with the new one - MOD1- that has the built in attenuator (some would say it's more like a master volume). It's awesome! Anyhow, at home I use a Blackstar FLY3. It's super small but powerful enough (3 watts) for home practice, and sounds decent enough to my ears for home practice It also has headphone out, and auxiliary input for backing tracks and whatnot. That being said, I care about tone a great deal when I'm playing with my band, but not so much when I am at home playing through headphones or through a small amp.


----------



## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Thanks guys for all the infos.
Maybe the attenuator is not the solution for me.

If I mod my YBA-1 to have a master volume would it be more efficient?


----------



## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Swervin55 said:


> I wasn't sure about the power of a YBA-1 so I looked it up. Specs say it has a master volume (power attenuator) built in. Is this correct and does it not do the job? Asking out of pure ignorance of course.


Mine is a '68 YBA-1 at about 40-45 watts of pure fun! 
The YBA-1 MOD1 is a new offering from Traynor. The built in attenuator seems like a good idea.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

isoneedacoffee said:


> That's the new YBA 1 MOD1. Actually I went through this awhile back with my '74 YBA1 - search the threads. One of the first things people do when they buy one of these beasts is look for an attenuator!
> 
> I ended up selling mine and going with the new one - MOD1- that has the built in attenuator *(some would say it's more like a master volume).* It's awesome! Anyhow, at home I use a Blackstar FLY3. It's super small but powerful enough (3 watts) for home practice, and sounds decent enough to my ears for home practice It also has headphone out, and auxiliary input for backing tracks and whatnot. That being said, I care about tone a great deal when I'm playing with my band, but not so much when I am at home playing through headphones or through a small amp.


It is exactly a master volume, done with a resistive stepped network. If the circuitry is after the power tubes amd absorbs output power as heat, it can be considered a power attenuator. If it is pre-power amp and drops voltage rather than absorbs heat, then it is a master volume control. The truth is in the schematic - I just don't like the inaccurate wording Traynor used. Leo Fender was imprecise with his terminology as well, but he was cutting new ground and didn't know any better, Traynor aren't and should.


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Ti-Ron said:


> Thanks guys for all the infos.
> Maybe the attenuator is not the solution for me.
> 
> If I mod my YBA-1 to have a master volume would it be more efficient?


I've used lots of attenuators in the past and some worked really well. I've tried THD, Weber, Dr. Z, Ultimate Attenuator and for my money, the UA and THD were the best. 

If you're interested in a master volume, I have a London Power Scaling kit that I bought a long time ago that I'm not using (never used, in fact). If I can find it in my drawer, I can give you a really good deal on it.


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

How much attenuation do you really need? You may also want to consider these: Want to turn your amp into a one watt monster?

I have an attenuator (and have owned a ton from cheap to uber expensive) and they all lose something if you really attenuate to high levels. I just had a MV put into one of my old bassmasters. I am hoping that the MV alongside the tube adapters may let me get some nice dirt at reasonable volumes. 

In all honestly, if you want it REALLY quite it is always a comprise. If you can at least make "some" noise, you can probably find a solution. Don't rule out a simple pedal either.

TG


----------



## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

traynor_garnet said:


> In all honestly, if you want it REALLY quite it is always a comprise. If you can at least make "some" noise, you can probably find a solution. Don't rule out a simple pedal either.
> 
> TG


I fully agree. You'll be spending a lot of money and time, complicating things a great deal, while chasing a tone dragon. Keep it simple, and with the plethora of pedal options I would imagine that there must be something out there that would satisfy you at low volumes.

I tried one attenuator with my '74 YBA1. It was the Bad Cat Unleash - a well regarded and expensive reamp-style attenuator. The thing that I really disliked is that it killed dynamics as it liked to have the signal coming in at a certain level which you set yoirself. So, if I was playing and lowered the volume knob on the guitar, the sound then gut really spluttery and gated. It liked a consistent signal all the time.

I use my new YBA1 as a slightly dirty platform, and have a Xotic Sl Drive, and some fuzz, for the real dirt. I do this because I play with lots of effects.


----------



## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Normally, I use both channels jumped at 1-1,5 volume wise.
I think I never push it past 3.
My dirt sound comes from my pedals.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

What computer do you use?


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> It is exactly a master volume, done with a resistive stepped network. If the circuitry is after the power tubes amd absorbs output power as heat, it can be considered a power attenuator. If it is pre-power amp and drops voltage rather than absorbs heat, then it is a master volume control. The truth is in the schematic - I just don't like the inaccurate wording Traynor used.


Exactly. It's a stepped PPIMV, using a rotary switch instead of a pot. Instead of calling out settings like 1 to 10, they call out power levels that can be achieved on each setting. I'd prefer if they would call it something like 'power limiter'.
I guess they are playing with semantics. It's not attenuating actual power, but controlling available power.
Agree with the definition of 'power attenuator' being between power amp and speaker. This is not one. It is before the power tubes and the attenuator is not handling any actual power.


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Ti-Ron said:


> Normally, I use both channels jumped at 1-1,5 volume wise.
> I think I never push it past 3.
> My dirt sound comes from my pedals.


Then an attenuator will work well. I assumed you wanted full on dirt from a cranked up amp. If you just want to bring the volume down a bit you should be ok with a decent attenuator.


----------



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Ti-Ron said:


> Normally, I use both channels jumped at 1-1,5 volume wise.
> I think I never push it past 3.
> My dirt sound comes from my pedals.


Then an attenuator will work well. I assumed you wanted full on dirt from a cranked up amp. If you just want to bring the volume down a bit you should be ok with a decent attenuator.


----------



## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Budda said:


> What computer do you use?


For the moment, none. 
The thing died on me 3-4 years ago and didn't find the interest to buy another one since. 

Things will change since we bought a house ans I build myself a proper music room.


----------



## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

traynor_garnet said:


> Then an attenuator will work well. I assumed you wanted full on dirt from a cranked up amp. If you just want to bring the volume down a bit you should be ok with a decent attenuator.


I like the not so clean sound of it.  
Thanks for the infos.


----------



## bluebayou (May 25, 2015)

I use a Power Plug 100 from recycled sound. It does what I need it to do - keep my neighbours happy when I am practicing.


----------

