# Good Old days sucked



## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

How'd we ever survive recording with Tape?

I remember practicing for hours, then recording using a Fostex 4 track cassette porta-studio back in the late 80's, only to have what I thought was a great complex and heavy riff sound like crap when hearing it playback.

Fast forward, wrote a guitar/bass track thought it sounded good in the step sequencer.
Learned it on guitar and bass and recorded it with a drum track.
Playback, sounded ok.
Then let it sit for a while and wrote/recorded another song that sounds great.
Revisited the other recording. Totally unhappy with it.

But now in the digital age, I can select sections and remove them, and then punch in and record in the blank space. 

Moreover I can set it in a loop to auto punch in hands free, with a lead in and lead out.

Back in high school (late 80's for me) you'd need 2 people and a footswitch to punch in and out to attempt a recording change. 

Most times it made the entire recording sound like mud and you'd have to erase the cassette with a magnet and start over with the changes and hope that it sounds good. 

Screw the "Good old days" of tape. 

Don't even get me started on cutting and splicing reel to reel tape


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

What software/set-up are you using to record now?


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2019)

But I can't cut and then Scotch Tape it back together anymore.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I used the Tascam 4 Track and I agree. Sucked.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

BSTheTech said:


> What software/set-up are you using to record now?


Various amps and guitars recorded with sm57's and a large diameter condenser mic. 

Gretch jr jet bass
Sansamp DI effect and cabinet simulation. 

Gen2 Scarlett 2i2 sound card. 
Reaper software. 
EZ drummer software. 

Digitech RP355 
Zoom G3 
Multi effects floor units. 
Which can be used as amp or cabinet sims and recorded directly. 
But I usually only use them in the effects loop of the amps.

Yamaha studio monitors. 

Not the best of gear, but gets the job done.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

I much prefer the ease and versatility of Garageband, but I do miss the stereo/4 track Akai, and stereo Pioneer reel-to-reel decks that were instrumental (pun forgiveness I beseech thee) in my early recording hobby. I did some limited splicing back in the day, but it was always a last resort. Romanticising about my past does seem to be happening a lot more often lately.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Totally with you on that thought.... I dig the ability to do what ever I need to do to fix stuff.. riffs can become songs that 15 secs of that two minute wander ///clip clip copy copy ....


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

djmarcelca said:


> Various amps and guitars recorded with sm57's and a large diameter condenser mic.
> 
> Gretch jr jet bass
> Sansamp DI effect and cabinet simulation.
> ...


Awesome. I just made my first recording. Les Paul into a clean Blues Junior into a Sennheiser e906 mic to an iRig Pre HD mic preamp into my iPhone. So far so good. I have no idea what I'm doing but I'm having fun. I've also recorded my guitar through the iRig HD guitar interface into GarageBand but I really need to get a new Mac before I do any more with that. I'm surprised how well the analog mic into the iPhone works. Very portable. Even records hi-res video at the same time and syncs it all up. Would be great for bootlegging ;-)


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2019)

djmarcelca said:


> using a Fostex 4 track


I did the same.
I also had a Boss drum machine that had to be laid down first.
That took the majority of the time to program before recording it.
Had to have the whole song in my head to count out the measures/changes.
If you miss one, start all over.
My finished songs sounded a little sloppy because I just wanted to get it done.

Here's a sample.
Keep in mind, this is '86, so the tune is dated. Dragons and Wizards, don'cha know.
You'll hear the point where I just want to get it done.
Oh .. ignore the vocals.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

My first drum machine wasn't programmable, I had to actually play the buttons for the whole recording and of course it sounded like out of tune cardboard boxes with pie plate cymbals. Had to fasten it to my desk so it didn't move around when played. Yeah, the '70s weren't all that great.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I remember recording with my Tascam 144. I tried to keep my guitars in stereo because, hey, stereo. So I bounced everything else back and forth on the remaining two tracks in mono. How I wished for more than 4 tracks - or a George Martin living next door (he did OK with 4 tracks LOL). 

Now we can all be Brian May and use a separate track for each string of our guitar and get massive tones. All it takes is time - something I hope to have lots of in a few months. That was one thing I noticed with the Portastudio - recording can be a slow and laborious process. Days just flew by.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

High/Deaf said:


> one thing I noticed with the Portastudio - recording can be a slow and laborious process. Days just flew by.


I remember the manual calling that "ping pong" tracking. You'd bounce tracks to have room to record anything more than 4 tracks. 

Now four tracks is the start of a drum kit.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

yeah, program the dang drum machine, program the dang synth, no mistakes allowed, bounce tracks to make room, re-do everything because the guitar disappeared into the background, etc, etc, etc.

It was nice, back then, to set the programming aside and just *go live* with real drums. I had to bounce something in this song to make room for the second vocal; can't remember what is was tho'...

This song was recorded in 1991 on the Tascam PortaStudio four-track cassette. It's about vinyl records, which were already a nostalgic item by the nineties.


__
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fuser-453487393-638909333%2Fold-vinyl


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

My band has been playing 21 years now, and we did out first recordings in Logic over the last few months. We aren't doing the mixing and mastering, but the quality of the sounds we have achieved is amazing. Everything I ever heard in my head. In the case of the bass, we are using the Logic amp models and it sounds incredible. We mostly recorded with amps, but have thrown on some emulated guitar tracks too. It's been so relaxed and so awesome.

Not to mention, the AI drummer for demoing new tunes has just been incredible. I mainly use GarageBand for mapping out tunes, then Logic will just import those files.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

They did it often enough to get good at it.

Like some of the musicians they recorded.


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## reckless toboggan (Mar 9, 2019)

I still have my Tascam414 and stacks and stacks of demos and full songs I/we recorded.

We'd play in the next room at low volume with the signal into headphones that my drummer wore, while we recorded him from live mics onto one or two tracks. Then we'd use that drum track as a foundation, and record the bass, guitars, and vocals onto the other tracks.

Heat buildup in the room as we worked through the day (or night) meant tape stretch, which caused time swings through the song and relative pitch shifts when recording the different instruments. We used expensive metal oxide tapes because they were supposed to be more stable and better for this kind of thing, but sounded very thin and treble-y. I'm pretty sure they were just a scam, as none of the issues went away, they were more expensive, but at least they sounded like crap.

After about 3 years of that, we finally got Cakewalk. Don't even get me started on that rabbit hole. 2.5 years spent-in-a-basement later and we had 40 or so songs.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

reckless toboggan said:


> I still have my Tascam414 and stacks and stacks of demos and full songs I/we recorded... we had 40 or so songs.


I like your process. All real instruments. A lot of work there.

Post music or it didn't happen. C'mon don't be shy.

[_Those early recordings are] like seeing yourself in the school yearbook with a bad haircut._ -- Andy Partridge, XTC)


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

reckless toboggan said:


> We used expensive metal oxide tapes because they were supposed to be more stable and better for this kind of thing, but sounded very thin and treble-y. I'm pretty sure they were just a scam, as none of the issues went away...


When I brought my old tapes out of storage, the only one that was bad was the super expensive metal oxide. All the audio was gone. The cheaper tapes were still playable. I agree, scam. (Just like all those goofy adjustments on turntables that solved imaginary audiophile problems.)


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

laristotle said:


>



D&D fantasy Rock is a very niche sub-genre.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

KapnKrunch said:


> When I brought my old tapes out of storage, the only one that was bad was the super expensive metal oxide. All the audio was gone. The cheaper tapes were still playable. I agree, scam. (Just like all those goofy adjustments on turntables that solved imaginary audiophile problems.)


Interesting about the tape life. At work we’re looking for a long term data storage solution (75+ years) One IT guy wants tape, the other says the stated tape life spans are bullshit and wants spinning disk or cloud.


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2019)

BSTheTech said:


> long term data storage solution


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## TB2019 (Mar 14, 2019)

Porta studios are one thing, but I enjoyed working in analog (tape) studios.

Watch the Dave Grohl "Sound City" flick for one perspective on the digital vs tape topic.


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## mturk (Nov 27, 2013)

BSTheTech said:


> Interesting about the tape life. At work we’re looking for a long term data storage solution (75+ years) One IT guy wants tape, the other says the stated tape life spans are bullshit and wants spinning disk or cloud.


Why would anyone want to retain data for 75 years? What kind of data is it? There will be no device and/or application that can read it 75 years from now.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

mturk said:


> Why would anyone want to retain data for 75 years? What kind of data is it? There will be no device and/or application that can read it 75 years from now.


Let's just say I work in an industry that has mandated data retention periods of 20-100 years. Sounds like we're taking the Cloud option.

Whether we can read it in the future is irrelevant. I only care about the next two years


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## mturk (Nov 27, 2013)

BSTheTech said:


> Let's just say I work in an industry that has mandated data retention periods of 20-100 years. Sounds like we're taking the Cloud option.
> 
> Whether we can read it in the future is irrelevant. I only care about the next two years


Interesting. After being a coder for backup software I worked in IT for municipal government. The general thinking in that environment is to archive for the minimum length of time as is required by policy or law.

Apologies for getting off topic of the thread.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

tape ain't gonna cut it .... burned to disk (of any sort ) and a brand computer with drives tucked away in an unopened box ... for future generations ... then large USB thumb drives for redundancy ... and finally encrypted to Cloud. Review backup procedures every every 5 years and export to new standard formats of the day.



BSTheTech said:


> Whether we can read it in the future is irrelevant. I only care about the next two years


reminds me of a special high speed Tape backup system in the 80's ... 3 hours to backup the system when it worked , it failed 2 weeks after purchase and the people left to run it rejoiced that it only ran for 15 minutes each day then shut down .... till they had to restore the system about a month later.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I still have my Fostex 4-track. Very fond memories with her. I actually have some recordings I did as a young teenager by bouncing one Realistic tape recorder into another and playing along . We used what we had. I have a Zoom HS4 that sees a lot of use for "off the floor" recordings and a pretty much brand new Boss BR something-or-other still in it's box.

I went through a big original song recording phase where I record probably 20 or so songs on the Fostex. Now they're in MP3 format and for my purposes they still sound just fine to me.


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## Guest (May 3, 2019)

djmarcelca said:


> D&D fantasy Rock is a very niche sub-genre.


Not in the 80's. lol


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

Dorian2 said:


> I used the Tascam 4 Track and I agree. Sucked.


That's what I used on this one back in the 90's.


__
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Fuser-302874328%2Fgrand-ballroom-gownes-1


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

misposted


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

I have a Teac 80-8 and a Tascam 16 -8-4-2 board, snake, midi track with a Alesia's drum machine in the basement collecting dust. Cost me thousands of dollars in the late 80's and it was awesome!

Now I have a Mackie 8 channel Usb board , iPad, GarageBand, rack I built in the early 90's, NS-10 monitors and it is awesome.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Whether it’s tape or digital, I still want an engineer if I’m recording.

It’s just the way I prefer to do things but wearing both the musician’s and the technician’s hats doesn’t work well for me.

One at a time is best.

I’m happy in either tape or digital.


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## Simon Peterson (Aug 20, 2019)

I dunno, digital is fine and all, when it works. Granted I'm using an old laptop and cheap interface, but half the time I get through my computer booting up, load up whichever program I'm using, and get ready to record, the DAW doesnt see my interface, for reasons... whereas my TEAC 3340s always works as soon as I turn it on. Now having a drum program on the computer is a godsend, I can use it to build the song structure, then play it into my reel to reel as I play along! Perfect harmony of digital and analog.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Sounds like you need a brand new el cheapo computer.


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## Simon Peterson (Aug 20, 2019)

Budda said:


> Sounds like you need a brand new el cheapo computer.


I've been saying the same thing for several years now


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