# Why Breaking Bad Would Never Happen in Canada



## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

My wife just sent me this and I had to laugh.



http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/09/24/breaking-bad-canada-comic-health_n_3984793.html


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

Hmmmmm, need a username and password to check it out.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

This kind of like flogging a dead horse but glad you got A laugh out of it traynor:sAng_scream: ship


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Ship of fools said:


> This kind of like flogging a dead horse but glad you got A laugh out of it traynor:sAng_scream: ship


I thought the thread sounded familiar but I couldn't log on to see the file to be sure. Still wouldn't mind revisiting it though if we can crack the password thingy.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Not sure what was going on there. Weird. Link fixed.

TG


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

it _would_ be funny* if* it was true. but i watched my wife deal with cancer from your so-called free health care. it was alot like getting a meal at mcdonald's drive through. and delivered with the same care and compassion. and yet i myself, ACTUALLY BEING AN AMERICAN ran up half a million dollars in medical bills there and ended up with a co pay of just $800, because of employer paid health care, provided by law, my cost while out of work was just $30/wk. i had the best of care, and no expense was spared. in fact, the tests that saved my life would never even have been administered here in canada.* if i was a canadian at that time i would be dead right now.* so go ahead and think you got this awesome system that magically takes care of people. i just hope for your sake you never learn the truth first hand, as i am right now. i've had a bad leg since 2007 and i have yet to have ANY serious effort from ANY healthcare proffesional that's paid through my health card. in fact, they have hindered my care purposely, in order to use me for billing purposes. if your health care was all that, i wouldn't need such expensive supplemental coverage from my union. trouble is, uninformed people vote. and when they think something isn't broke, they don't fix it. your country has been hemmoraging doctors into america for decades. ever stop to wonder why? you'll never know until you stop getting your opinions from rags like the huffington post. might as well be reading mclean's while your at it.

- - - Updated - - -

what really ticks me off is soo many retards in america (like my sister) threw away a good system because they wanted what you _think_ you have. what they got instead was a shit sandwich without the bread.


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

sounds like you might want to check your blood pressure

not sure if that test is done by the nurse from animaniacs like it is in a'murica...you just sorta stick your arm in the hole and press the button up here.... but i mean...it's free...


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm quite happy with our medical system here is Canada. 

I'm just not happy with the state and direction of medical science in general.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Dude, it was a light hearted joke about a tv show. If you would like to rant about health care systems take it somewhere else. Take some time time to check your facts first though.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

As someone being treated for cancer at the Cross Cancer Institute here in Edmonton, I can say that I have received the best care possible from the top notch doctors and facilities right down to social services. I am treated like royalty and they make sure my mental health, financial situation and every aspect of my life is taken care of. They even provide transportation to and from the clinics. My experience has been compassionate, high quality treatment from one of the world's top cancer research facilities at U of A.

I have the most basic medical coverage you can get and I don't have to pay a cent. I am Canadian!

EDIT: Just to add some background, it all started when I was peeing some blood one morning and I walked into emergency at the Royal Alex. Within 30 minutes I was talking to several doctors and was admitted for CT scans and then a cystocopy to remove a large tumor which I received 2 days later. The followup pathology indicated high grade cancer cells in the surrounding tissue and followups with several excellent doctors followed. Home care was provided upon my release 2 days later. All at no cost to me.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

nkjanssen said:


> I wish I could say my sister was receiving the same care. Right now, we're having a very hard time to get any medical professional to give a damn about her treatment (which was recently set back by two screw-ups - wrong lab results provided to her oncologist, and then the hospital losing a sample sent for testing). There doesn't seem to be any sense of urgency, responsibility or accountability as far as I can tell.
> 
> Obviously, YMMV (and I hope it does).


I'm so sorry to hear that. What I don't understand is why I might be receiving such a different experience. I am nothing special as far as I can tell. Perhaps it's my winning smile and sparkling personality? I guess perhaps there is a problem with consistency in treatment within the system.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I spent a good deal of time in our medical system over the past few years. My wife had breast cancer and all the treatment and aftercare that goes along with that.

She was treated and is now still monitoring things and taking the meds for a couple more years.

My impressions of her care are very favourable.

I have never watched Breaking Bad.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

Another plus for Alberta is that the U of A is widely respected throughout the world as a premier medical university breaking new ground in cancer, stem cell and diabetes treatments so they attract the best in their field, doctors and research pioneers.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Had great care out west here when they discovered a lump on my back 3 weeks later it was removed ( was apperently much larger underneath then they thought at first and the anethetist was kind of worry to put me under for what ever reason so a local it was and a quick slice dice and out she came only to find it was luclily pre cancerous and still have it looked at occasionally. I think we are damn lucky to have what WE HAVE HERE COMPARED TO OTHER PLACES that allow a person to die for lack of some form of health coverage, and we always see things differently because each person looks at what we have here in Canada differently. I liken it to what my wife always says, my pain level is not going to be the same as your pain level and we all have different perspectives when it comes to our loved ones and how we might percieve them as being treated by our health care and like with all things mistakes can and do happen but do you appolish the whole health care system.ship.....................ps should be going in soon for a hernia repair, which in the US would run around $ 25,000.00 for me its free here how lucky can I be oh and love the cartoon


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

I still don't understand why the vast difference in treatment. My oncologist sees me personally at the beginning of each 3 week treatment phase and is available if I need to see him personally. Otherwise I go in every week for blood tests and a visit with one of his assistants who goes over everything from personal concerns to questions about my treatment.

When I asked to delay my next phase for a week for my Vancouver trip next month, he just smiled, looked at his calendar and adjusted his own schedule to accommodate me, even if he did advise that he did not want to delay it any longer than that.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

traynor_garnet said:


> Dude, it was a light hearted joke about a tv show. If you would like to rant about health care systems take it somewhere else. Take some time time to check your facts first though.


 it wasn't a light hearted joke, it was a stab at the previous health care system in america. and it was made from a completely uninformed point of view. you want facts? i gave you facts. here are some details: 
my wife got breast cancer before we were married. they removed her left breast, and then an hour after surgery theu woke her up, put her in a wheel chair and wheeled her out into the lobby for me to take home. they gave her a one page paper with after care instructions and a couple phone numbers. i drove up here from the states to care for her, she was a single mom with 2 little kids. i asked the nurse what if i wasn't here to get her? she said "we would have called her a cab" it was feb 2004. worst blizzard i ever saw in my life, left snow berms 6' high along the roads in east york.* they woulda put her in a frickin cab with her 6 and 8 yr old kids, an hour after surgery*. that's your health care system.

in 2007 i broke my ankle and fibula, and toronto east general refused to even take me off the gurney until i signed a promise to pay agreement, and handed them 24 post dated checks. they set the bone wrong, had to re break it, and then screwed everything back together with screws and plumber's strap. well, not everything. they didn't even bother to fix the fibula. it remains broken in my leg right now. i can post the x-rays to prove it if you wish. since then i have been on a waiting list for a fusion. i have been bumped repeatedly by people who somehow have figured out how to jump the queue. 4 yrs so far. i get regular treatments from accupuncture and deep massage so that i can walk enough to function at work. i deal with alot of pain. all the docs i see want to give me percoset. even my chiropractor gave me a scrip for orthotics, which has to be signed by my md. the md wont sign it until i make an office visit, even though it involves him only as a formality for my insurance to re imburse my costs. he wants to make sure he gets his. i can get no reffererals from him for any of the complicated medical issuse i have without first letting this guy get his office visit, so he can bill ohip. he is one of several docs that have repeatedly hindered my care in the name of them gettin their piece. i could write more examples but my point is made. these are facts. i experienced them first hand. this is your health care system.


the part i said about my american medical bills, also completely factual first hand experience. a blood clot destroyed my small intestine in 2003. the symptoms i had were unrelated. it was only by the dilligence of the doc i was seeing, and his access to tests and equipment (that canadians do not have even close to equally) that found the problem at literally the very last moment, in time for me to survive. i spent over a month in intensive care, and a few more in an after care place, and finally 2 months of a visiting nurse, daily. for over 2 months i fed through a tube that went into my chest. it was pumped from a bag in a sort of back pack i wore. i did 2 of those bags a day. they were $1000 each. my medical bills were a half a mill, by co pay wasn't even a grand. i had a TEAM of doctors. 5 doctors for all my surgeries and after care. i survived a 60/40 chance because i had access to the best care. i worked in a non union sheetmetal shop making $22/hr. it's not like i was working for some big employer. just a local mechanical contacter with less than 50 employees. everything i have said is fact i have experienced myself. it didnt come from a cartoon in the huffington post. it's not anyone's opinion. they are true events. america has a bad enough rap for stuff we actually do. no need to promote inaccurate propaganda created by the media to shove a health care package down people's throats that most of them did not want.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

If I had the money, I would go to the USA every time I wanted to see a doctor. Strangely enough, care improves with the possibility of getting sued is present. Not only that but in Canada, when people want to get elected, they say we are going to spend X on health care, then when they get in they throw the money at it with no real knowledge of the system. The beds are closed and replaced with administrators with computers.

The one thing I would disagree with is that the USA has traded one system for another. The only thing I see changing is the method of the funding. As for your story of the broken leg and whatnot in Canada cheez...I knew a guy who got stabbed in the USA...I don't know what they made him sign but they put a warrant out for his arrest when they didn't get the payment - why not collect it from the stabbER instead of the stabEE?

Anyway, the only certainty is that nothing is perfect.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

My 5 year old needed medical attention while we were in Florida, and we had to leave the resort. Thank god we bought insurance. They would have let my kid rot in the waiting room - and almost did. Until we could prove we could pay, they would have nothing to do with us. The first thing they did was initiate a fury of phone calls trying to figure out if they would be getting paid. I had to fill out a ton of forms while calming my wife down. Mother bear was about to Michael Douglas the place. Can't say I've ever had an issue with the Canadian system. 

Now, .....I am an anti-dentite, however (no matter what country I'm in).


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Anedotal evidence, not facts, and many many missing parts to the stories. 

Every time somebody wants to shout about the superiority of the USA system they claim that the services don't exist in Canada or the technology isn't available etc. Just like the American politician who claimed he would be dead if he lived in Canada, only to discover that the procedure that saved him was actually developed in Canada!

The problems with our system have been created by funding, failure to incorporate preventive care, and a huge demographic shift as the boomers enter old age. These can all be addresed with political will and forsight. 

If you want facts: public systems are far more cost effective, offer better care per dollar, and offer better overall average health care. I can send references to peer reviewed, academic research.

TG



cheezyridr said:


> it wasn't a light hearted joke, it was a stab at the previous health care system in america. and it was made from a completely uninformed point of view. you want facts? i gave you facts. here are some details:
> my wife got breast cancer before we were married. they removed her left breast, and then an hour after surgery theu woke her up, put her in a wheel chair and wheeled her out into the lobby for me to take home. they gave her a one page paper with after care instructions and a couple phone numbers. i drove up here from the states to care for her, she was a single mom with 2 little kids. i asked the nurse what if i wasn't here to get her? she said "we would have called her a cab" it was feb 2004. worst blizzard i ever saw in my life, left snow berms 6' high along the roads in east york.* they woulda put her in a frickin cab with her 6 and 8 yr old kids, an hour after surgery*. that's your health care system.
> 
> in 2007 i broke my ankle and fibula, and toronto east general refused to even take me off the gurney until i signed a promise to pay agreement, and handed them 24 post dated checks. they set the bone wrong, had to re break it, and then screwed everything back together with screws and plumber's strap. well, not everything. they didn't even bother to fix the fibula. it remains broken in my leg right now. i can post the x-rays to prove it if you wish. since then i have been on a waiting list for a fusion. i have been bumped repeatedly by people who somehow have figured out how to jump the queue. 4 yrs so far. i get regular treatments from accupuncture and deep massage so that i can walk enough to function at work. i deal with alot of pain. all the docs i see want to give me percoset. even my chiropractor gave me a scrip for orthotics, which has to be signed by my md. the md wont sign it until i make an office visit, even though it involves him only as a formality for my insurance to re imburse my costs. he wants to make sure he gets his. i can get no reffererals from him for any of the complicated medical issuse i have without first letting this guy get his office visit, so he can bill ohip. he is one of several docs that have repeatedly hindered my care in the name of them gettin their piece. i could write more examples but my point is made. these are facts. i experienced them first hand. this is your health care system.
> ...


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

I am aghast at some of what I'm reading here. Other than the occasional hack GP who must have crammed for every exam and didn't learn a thing (I just went to another doctor) or a couple of long waits in emergency over my 60 years, my experience with our medical system has been nothing but positive.

I can easily match (and then some) every horror story or even bad experience with my own satisfaction for my medical treatment. I'm not going to regale everybody with anecdotes and praise for our medical system because there is much that should be improved and money wasting, ignorant governments to fight. But I have to say as a regular user of the system in my later years, I have always been impressed with the quality of care.

Maybe I should go back to the "Are you lucky" thread and change my posts?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I can tell you this, from first hand experience. Leaving out cost and concentrating purely on service and care. The health care system here in the Niagara Region is draconian at best. We have a huge shortage of doctors. IF and I do me IF you are fortunate enough to have found a GP/Family doctor you had better not leave them, you will never find another one. They are basically grandfathered in now. You can add your new wife or child but forget about getting in any other way. If you need an appointment be prepared to wait a minimum 7 days and usually more. If you are refered to any kind of specialist you are looking at a minimum of a month ans sometimes a lot more depending on the field. The NHS basically killed my Mother and let my Father rot in a hospital bed for 3 weeks until he withered up and died. 

If you need to go to the emergency ward I HIGHLY recommend taking a knife and gashing a 3-4 inch giant open wound, make sure there is blood spurting out and not just dripping out. If you do this you MAY get seen by a physician within an hour. If not you are encouraged to bring a book and lunch with you because the average wait time is 4 hours. If you opt to go to one of the 5-6 free clinics in the area use the same criteria. 

Marnie has been dealing with a bad stomach/bowel issue for over 5 weeks. She had a two week lead time to get into our GP and one night I finally had enough of her doubled over and took her to the BRAND NEW hospital here in St Catharines. Very impressive, state of the art facility. Cost me $16 to park there. She waited over 3 hours to be seen. As soon as she told the doctor she had an appointment at her GP for 2 days later he told her to get out. 

The single biggest problem we have here in this area is a lack of doctors and people that hang out in the Emerg for colds and minor aches and pains. Plus every single mental defective in the area uses them as somewhere to hang out and put in time. Deplorable system and it's getting worse.

I had the occasion to have to use American hospitals twice, both in Michigan. Once when I had a severe anxiety attack which basically felt like a heart attack and once when I had kidney stones and basically doubled over while driving. Both times I was in a bed within 15 minutes and attended to. I had coverage through work. But the thing I noticed above everything else was the waiting rooms in the emerg areas was empty.

I would like to add that it is not the personnel at these facilities. It's the system. For example, just one of many. In today's hospital, at least around here, they will "let you die" and I am not kidding you. When my Father was in there the nurses told me straight up "if you want him to eat you better be here". They will put the tray down and if nobody is there to feed them, they will just come by later and take it. No questions asked. They simply don't have the time or staff anymore for care. If they are in pain, you need to be there to do something about it. They will literally let them cry and moan. The old dude next to him I would literally pick him up out of bed and take him so he could piss. It was that or he would piss himself in the bed. That experience with my Father in there for 3 weeks was horrendous. No other word for it. Believe it or not I was glad when he died. It was a blessing to him and us. No doctor, and he had probably 4 different ones that breezed in and out over those three weeks ever told us what was wrong with him.

The poor bastards that had their Father next to mine, he was in a ward of four, had been hanging out in there on a daily basis for over a month. He was totally gone, would babble on all day long about nothing. They would say "its time to eat Dad" he would say "I just ate" They would say "No it just came now" and so on and so on into eternity. I got to know them and their situation well. They had nowhere that they could put him, nowhere. So there he layed day after day and week after week. The day my Father passed away I wished them luck and got the hell out of there. They might still be there.

PS: I have never even heard of Breaking Bad


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I like parts of our system...the 'all inclusive' nature (that is, everyone, not everything though, like dental, eyewear, elective stuff). Unfortunately that's the 2 sided coin that causes the waits and other emerg room crap, like my son waiting 16 hours not allowed anything to eat or drink, in a waiting room, with a badly broken jaw.

Competence is something else. We're dealing with a family issue right now. My sister in law, age 58 when the story starts and 60 now, had been to the doc a couple of times about extreme stomach pain. A bad gall bladder went undiagnosed (SRSLY? In this day and age, how the f do you miss a bad gall bladder?). It exploded. The surgeon who went in to fix it fucked up the blood flow to her liver, and now she has serious chronic health problems. She's been on and off liver transplant watch lists. Bottom line, this is inevitably going to shorten her life, and her quality of remaining life is brutally poor - she can barely take care of herself. We're talking about a highly intelligent highly motivated person here, who can barely function day to day. The surgeon and her supervisor denied screwing up the surgery for a year, but the evidence is overwhelming. She's sued and is going to get a settlement (we think - if she doesn't, she'll certainly win). Pertinent to the turn the thread has taken, she has hours of horror stories about her treatment, about people passing the buck or screwing up meds or not wanting to see her for a 2nd opinion and such. All over a gall bladder that, these days (and, hell, really for a long time now), is routine in and out surgery.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

nkjanssen said:


> Exact same thing happened to my 14-year-old niece about 2 years ago. Hospital staff was busy and didn't take the time to fully assess or run tests. They made a quick judgement that it was just indigestion or something similarly innocuous and ended up failing to diagnose a _burst_ appendix. Three days later, they were giving her a 1% chance of surviving. She did did make it through, but has lingering health consequences and will for the rest of her life.
> 
> Sure, it's anecdotal, but over the course of my life my personal experiences with the healthcare system have been about a 50/50 split between good and terrible.
> 
> ...


I agree with that 100% heart attacks are usually the only thing that will get you into a bed fast.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

traynor_garnet said:


> Anedotal evidence, not facts, and many many missing parts to the stories.
> 
> Every time somebody wants to shout about the superiority of the USA system they claim that the services don't exist in Canada or the technology isn't available etc. Just like the American politician who claimed he would be dead if he lived in Canada, only to discover that the procedure that saved him was actually developed in Canada!
> 
> ...



fact 
/fakt/Noun
A thing that is indisputably the case.
Information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.


Synonyms reality - deed - actuality - truth - case - circumstance


an·ec·do·tal 
/ˌanikˈdōtl/Adjective(of an account)
Not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
Characterized by or fond of telling anecdotes

its not anecdotal, it's direct experience. if it actually happened, and i tell it to you, then what i say, being true, is a fact. unless you are calling my credibility into question. in which case it would be up to me to decide if wanted to make the effort to prove what i say. but, i don't think you're intentionally calling me a liar, 
so that means you must be wrong. it's not anecdotal, it's fact, just like say it is.









when i say that if i was canadian i would be dead, i base that statement on what i belive would have happened if the same situation occurred to me here, instead of in america. so that part, i concede is not fact, but rather more of an educated guess. of course, i can't know all things, so some might argue it is instead, conjecture. you tell me what you think would happen:

i had been tired. un naturally tired. some days i just couldn't get out of bed in the morning. i was worried, so i went to my doc and told him about how i was tired all the time. he said i was probably fighting a cold or something, just hang in there.

2 weeks later i went back. it was getting worse. he shined a light in my eyes and ears, up my nose, down my throat. he basically said i needed to tough it out that i must be fighting some bug. well, i wasn't havin it. i knew i'm no sissy. i went to another doc that same day. he ran a bunch of tests in the lab right there. he stayed late to get some of the results. i had x rays, and blood tests, poked and prodded, etc. finally he said to me "there is one more test i want to run on you, but the lab for that is already closed. i want you to come back here at 8 am tomorrow, don't eat anything past 8 tonight. i can see something in your gut but i'm not sure what it is yet. if you have any pains in your stomach at all, go to the emergency room." i started having pains, so i had my sister take me to the emergency room. i waited a few hours before they took me back and put me in a bed to see a doc. i remember sitting on the bed. the next thing i remember is waking up in intensive care, a few days later.
in my experience, the doctors i have dealt with here in canada would not have run those blood tests and had them immediately analyzed, on the spot. there would not have been immediate x rays and stuff i dont remember anymore. those tests clued the doc to a problem that was not related to the symptoms i complained of. he found my problem by blind luck, by looking at everything he could. if he did not spot that was having problems he would not have instructed me to go to the ER. had i passed out in pain in my apt, on the night of october the 17th, 2003 ( a fri nite) i would have died. my small intestine was all gangrene. literally ALL of it. i was a bachelor then. unconcious from gangrenous infection on a fri nite? maybe my boss might wonder why i wasn't at work monday and didn't call in. even if he came to my apt and knocked on the door, what then? i would have been dead for 2 days at least by then. being in the ER when i passed out was what kept me alive.


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## Intrepid (Oct 9, 2008)

Not to stir the pot but your descriptive experiences fit the actual definition of anecdotal. Read your definition. Your version is not indisputable. There may be some frailities or inaccuracies that are inadvertent, hence unreliable.

Your definition: Not necessarily true or reliable, because based on *personal accounts rather than facts or research.*


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

You are mixing up two levels of explanation. The 'fact' that you had a particular experience wasn't contested; I never claimed your crappy medical experience didn't happen. Such facts, however, are banal, like the 'fact' that it is dark outside as I write this message. 

The crucial difference between fact and anecdote lies in the ways we incorporate particular occurrences (a factual thing that happened) into an explanation. Once a banal fact (x happened) becomes cited as evidence for a wider claim or explanation the difference between systematic research and anecdotal evidence becomes huge. Claiming you had crappy medical attention is one thing, claiming that this crappy service is due to the inherent short comings of a publicly funded system is an entirely different kind of 'fact'; one that neither holds up to scrutiny nor is supported by scientific research. We cannot assume our personal experiences/accounts are indicative of broader claims/truths; such 'evidence' is anecdotal.

This is not the proper venue to have this discussion, and since I have spent the last three weeks lecturing about research methods, methodology, and theory I am frankly kind of tired of it LOL. But it is interesting to unpack the phrase, "facts are theory laden" to understand what facts really are. 

I also never claimed that the Canadian system is perfect, but I can see where this thread is heading and I cannot spend the next three weeks repeatedly defending it here. There are problems with our system, but problems that can be addressed without throwing out the baby with the bath water (see my previous post).

So in the end, I have spent way more time than intended, taking about a thread that was supposed to be funny _in relation to a fictional tv show_. 

Off to bed, off this thread. That is the healthy choice 

TG




cheezyridr said:


> fact
> /fakt/Noun
> A thing that is indisputably the case.
> Information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.
> ...


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