# The Les Paul dilemma. To replica or not to replica



## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Good morning

Have a fun 2012 gold top traditional that i like quite a bit. Great playability.

Id love to own ONE Killer Les Paul with a figured top and the 1959 look, sound and feel. There seems to be two ways to go about it and i need guidance here to avoid expensive mistakes.

1) Buy a great R9 with a Tom Murphy finish (or equivalent)

2) Buy a 1959 replica (Bartlett, Vaschenko,Yaron)

I was leaning towards a replica given the quality and sound you can get but my concerns were: a) having the gibson logo on a replica...is that even legal...what are the risks and b) resale value if i ever got tired or needed to sell (not likely but never know what life holds)

Thanks


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Buy used if you dont want to sweat resale.

Have you played an R9?


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## fogdart (Mar 22, 2017)

Replica any day of the week. A luthier is going to put a lot more effort into wood selection than the Gibson CS ever will (or is able to). These guitars are all about the quality of the wood used, and a luthier who finds resonant wood (preferably old growth) will end up with a more responsive and complex sounding guitar.

Tom and I have mutual friends. I’ve seen in person his amazing stock of true golden era old growth woods. I’ve got a Bartlett Retrospec and it is totally alive. I’ve owned a really great ‘52/‘59 conversion (with its original top and neck joint), and an original ‘52 Goldtop. The Bartlett Retrospec is the best of the 3.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

It's funny, I own an '16 R8, and as far as I am concerned, it is a "real" burst. I have never owned a fancier LP. However, it doesn't leave me wanting either. I suspect if I went straight to Huber, Yaron, Heritage, Bartlett, etc, I may have been drug down the boutique rabbit hole, which never ends.

IMO, if you want a LP, buy a Gibson, if you want someone else's version of an LP, you are already heading down a different path. I haven't done it with LPs, but I have had a couple replicas of a Languedoc, which were all north of 10k. What I learned was it's a mental game - and it's easy to get mind fcked by your gear if you are wondering if it's performing like you expect, or more specifically, what it's replicating.

YMMV.
C


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

I'm kinda with @fogdart on this one. I've owned about 20 LPs over the years and only two were standouts- a 68 goldtop and a 35th anniversary 3 pickup custom. I believe most of the special sauce in a Les Paul comes from build quality and the woods used. In most respects that is the formula for any "special" instrument, but I find this especially true with a LP.
I'm sure I've also had about 1000 LPs through my shop at this point. I can safely say that almost all of them were good guitars but also I can't remember even one that made me go "wow"- CS stuff included.


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## Fred Gifford (Sep 2, 2019)

buy a Murphy painted/aged .. keep it stock .. over time you will always get your money back


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Budda said:


> Buy used if you dont want to sweat resale.
> 
> Have you played an R9?


Yes. Did play a R9. Wasnt impressed but it can simply be the one i played


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Cardamonfrost said:


> It's funny, I own an '16 R8, and as far as I am concerned, it is a "real" burst. I have never owned a fancier LP. However, it doesn't leave me wanting either. I suspect if I went straight to Huber, Yaron, Heritage, Bartlett, etc, I may have been drug down the boutique rabbit hole, which never ends.
> 
> IMO, if you want a LP, buy a Gibson, if you want someone else's version of an LP, you are already heading down a different path. I haven't done it with LPs, but I have had a couple replicas of a Languedoc, which were all north of 10k. What I learned was it's a mental game - and it's easy to get mind fcked by your gear if you are wondering if it's performing like you expect, or more specifically, what it's replicating.
> 
> ...


i think you boiled it down to the essential. Its all a mind game at the end.


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

fogdart said:


> Replica any day of the week. A luthier is going to put a lot more effort into wood selection than the Gibson CS ever will (or is able to). These guitars are all about the quality of the wood used, and a luthier who finds resonant wood (preferably old growth) will end up with a more responsive and complex sounding guitar.
> 
> Tom and I have mutual friends. I’ve seen in person his amazing stock of true golden era old growth woods. I’ve got a Bartlett Retrospec and it is totally alive. I’ve owned a really great ‘52/‘59 conversion (with its original top and neck joint), and an original ‘52 Goldtop. The Bartlett Retrospec is the best of the 3.


thanks. And any insight on the legality of having a replica that says Gibson on it? A Bartlett Retrospec is a thing of beauty !


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

1979 930 said:


> Yes. Did play a R9. Wasnt impressed but it can simply be the one i played


Did you get along with the neck? If you didnt, I'd adjust your sights IMHO. Sometimes our white whales are only the dream until we try them.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

1979 930 said:


> i think you boiled it down to the essential. Its all a mind game at the end.


It's a lesson that cost me nearly 25k to learn (actually about 6k by the time I sold them off at a loss) still, what I would categorize as an "expensive mistake" as outlined by the OP.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Have you seen the classifieds here? The number of top end Les Pauls that pass through here is mind blowing. There's a replica up right now.


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Budda said:


> Did you get along with the neck? If you didnt, I'd adjust your sights IMHO. Sometimes our white whales are only the dream until we try them.


the neck was fine for me


Budda said:


> Did you get along with the neck? If you didnt, I'd adjust your sights IMHO. Sometimes our white whales are only the dream until we try them.


neck was fine


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

tomee2 said:


> Have you seen the classifieds here? The number of top end Les Pauls that pass through here is mind blowing. There's a replica up right now.


oh yes. I did see the action here. With Replicas, finding price comparables is quite something


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## fogdart (Mar 22, 2017)

I’m reading all of the comments, and to me this decision is a no brainer. If you want the best tone and playability you can get a high end replica is the only option. If you play hundreds of Gibson R guitars you might be lucky to find one that has that true old growth sound, and then the build quality to optimize it. But modern Mahogany is very different from the wood in the 50’s. It’s softer and denser, and as such sounds more congested and is less resonant. Yes there is the odd piece that has the old growth qualities but it’s very rare to find and it could take you years of playing every R guitar you can get your hands on to find one. Then you need a tight neck joint, perfect neck angle, hide glue joints, great fretwork, and a well cut nut to get the most out of that guitar. Not to mention pickups and electronics. The modern Gibson R guitars are very good, but they are not on par with an instrument built by one of today’s top luthiers.

If it were my choice I’d go with Tom Bartlett because I’ve actually seen his old growth stash. Vaschenko, Yaron, and others all claim to have old growth woods but that’s hard to verify. I’ve A/B’d my Bartlett to a handful of high end luthier built LP types (Yaron, Gustavsson, Monty, etc...) to my ear it was the best. There were a couple that were close (specifically two guitars by Gustavsson) but nothing that was better that’s for sure.


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

fogdart said:


> I’m reading all of the comments, and to me this decision is a no brainer. If you want the best tone and playability you can get a high end replica is the only option. If you play hundreds of Gibson R guitars you might be lucky to find one that has that true old growth sound, and then the build quality to optimize it. But modern Mahogany is very different from the wood in the 50’s. It’s softer and denser, and as such sounds more congested and is less resonant. Yes there is the odd piece that has the old growth qualities but it’s very rare to find and it could take you years of playing every R guitar you can get your hands on to find one. Then you need a tight neck joint, perfect neck angle, hide glue joints, great fretwork, and a well cut nut to get the most out of that guitar. Not to mention pickups and electronics. The modern Gibson R guitars are very good, but they are not on par with an instrument built by one of today’s top luthiers.
> 
> If it were my choice I’d go with Tom Bartlett because I’ve actually seen his old growth stash. Vaschenko, Yaron, and others all claim to have old growth woods but that’s hard to verify. I’ve A/B’d my Bartlett to a handful of high end luthier built LP types (Yaron, Gustavsson, Monty, etc...) to my ear it was the best. There were a couple that were close (specifically two guitars by Gustavsson) but nothing that was better that’s for sure.


Id love to see a pic of that guitar!


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## fogdart (Mar 22, 2017)




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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

fogdart said:


> View attachment 333605
> View attachment 333606
> View attachment 333607


even my wife thinks it looks awesome!


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

1979 930 said:


> even my wife thinks it looks awesome!


By any and all units of measure, it _is_ awesome. I'm sure of that!
C


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## StratCat (Dec 30, 2013)

1979 930 said:


> even my wife thinks it looks awesome!


sold.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

1979 930 said:


> Good morning
> 
> Have a fun 2012 gold top traditional that i like quite a bit. Great playability.
> 
> ...


Just my personal opinion, but if you're between a Gibson and a replica, and it's the replica you have concerns with then you already have your answer. Get yourself a Gibson and don't look back.


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Okay Player said:


> Just my personal opinion, but if you're between a Gibson and a replica, and it's the replica you have concerns with then you already have your answer. Get yourself a Gibson and don't look back.


Makes sense. I do have concerns but the goal here was to see it they were warranted. Since im a beginner at this, having diverse and sometimes contradictory opinions help shape my thought process. After seeing the Bartletts of 2 forum members, i must say im tempted with that.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

1979 930 said:


> Makes sense. I do have concerns but the goal here was to see it they were warranted. Since im a beginner at this, having diverse and sometimes contradictory opinions help shape my thought process. After seeing the Bartletts of 2 forum members, i must say im tempted with that.


Those Bartlett's are stunning. I also like that they aren't technically "clones". I'm pretty smitten by this one:


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

If the bartletts arent 1:1 les pauls and you want a les paul, dont get the bartlett. IMO.


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## Dom Polito (Jan 8, 2016)

1979 930 said:


> Makes sense. I do have concerns but the goal here was to see it they were warranted. Since im a beginner at this, having diverse and sometimes contradictory opinions help shape my thought process. After seeing the Bartletts of 2 forum members, i must say im tempted with that.


The thing that sticks out to me is this line (Since im a beginner at this)........................... perhaps you should not be looking at 10k guitars. What is your objective. Are you a pro player? Will you be touring? Is the guitar going in the closet or under your bed? Are you just playing at home, do you have a local band you play with. There's a lot of information on here. I have my opinions. Some align and perhaps some don't. And lets not use that word "subjective" cause what that really means is, everything that everyone has learned over that last 30 years means nothing, "because I picked up a guitar and have my own opinion". Replicas is a niche market. There are some great ones out there. Gibson R's, like someone said you can get that one that really translates, but its finding it. Resale an issue? Cause its hard to resell replicas, not that its not worth it, but just the way it is. Whats on the headstock? you're gonna get that question a lot.
Again what's your goal in purchasing such an expensive guitar if you are a beginner like you stated? If you can answer some of those questions, I might have some insight on that.


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## fogdart (Mar 22, 2017)

Budda said:


> If the bartletts arent 1:1 les pauls and you want a les paul, dont get the bartlett. IMO.


Well.... they are except for the headstock and slightly massaged body shape. But I was talking more about Tom’s 1:1 replicas. He doesn’t make them any more (cease and desist from Gibson), but they come up on the used market fairly regularly. They are far more accurate than any “Burst” that the CS has ever made.


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Dom Polito said:


> The thing that sticks out to me is this line (Since im a beginner at this)........................... perhaps you should not be looking at 10k guitars. What is your objective. Are you a pro player? Will you be touring? Is the guitar going in the closet or under your bed? Are you just playing at home, do you have a local band you play with. There's a lot of information on here. I have my opinions. Some align and perhaps some don't. And lets not use that word "subjective" cause what that really means is, everything that everyone has learned over that last 30 years means nothing, "because I picked up a guitar and have my own opinion". Replicas is a niche market. There are some great ones out there. Gibson R's, like someone said you can get that one that really translates, but its finding it. Resale an issue? Cause its hard to resell replicas, not that its not worth it, but just the way it is. Whats on the headstock? you're gonna get that question a lot.
> Again what's your goal in purchasing such an expensive guitar if you are a beginner like you stated? If you can answer some of those questions, I might have some insight on that.


Hi. « Beginner at this » meaning with my les paul knowledge. I do consider myself a beginner in almost anything actually 
I am not a pro, will play at home, will not be allowed to keep it under my bed (my wife wont be okay with that). So i guess that makes me the enthusiast that loves to play great instruments (historically f types). Hope this helps. Cheers


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## Dom Polito (Jan 8, 2016)

Ok Perfect. Now................whats your budget?


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Dom Polito said:


> Ok Perfect. Now................whats your budget?


Under 10 US


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## Dom Polito (Jan 8, 2016)

I saw a Bartlett at Shyboy Guitars in Toronto. It was a Retrospec. Its too bad you couldn't try it out. Not sure if its even there.
If you have that money to spend, then pick your direction....replica or custom shop, and put your money on one of them, but get the best if your going that far anyway.
Im not sure if that helps. Have you ever played any replicas? if you're ever in the Toronto area, come by my place and you can try replicas and customs shops, hopefully might help the equation, but not sure if your ever around these neck of the woods. I have not tried all customs shops, in my opinion tone wise for me, I found the 2018 R8 to be the closest thing that resembles the tone from the real bursts Ive played. But maybe I got lucky and got a good one. I though it actually was better than the 60th Anniversary 59.


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## Dom Polito (Jan 8, 2016)

The guys at this place are great btw.









Shyboy & Tex Repair Co.


It’s brand new G&G Retrospec case!




shyboytexrepairs.com


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

I'm pretty sure everyone would agree, that a lp from one of the premium Luther's would be a dream to own. I know I have fantasized about it several times...when comparing the cost of sending a R to Historic Makeovers and still not getting the best components, a custom is "good value". 

My only question is how would I know it's superior without owning what's considered to be the best of Gibson's production first? Or even several of the "best" that Gibson makes?

I look at members here that have already owned most of the premium offerings out there. They have learned what makes them happy from a lp by experience. My gut feeling is that gathering the experience is part of the process that truly makes you enjoy where you end up.

C


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Dom Polito said:


> I saw a Bartlett at Shyboy Guitars in Toronto. It was a Retrospec. Its too bad you couldn't try it out. Not sure if its even there.
> If you have that money to spend, then pick your direction....replica or custom shop, and put your money on one of them, but get the best if your going that far anyway.
> Im not sure if that helps. Have you ever played any replicas? if you're ever in the Toronto area, come by my place and you can try replicas and customs shops, hopefully might help the equation, but not sure if your ever around these neck of the woods. I have not tried all customs shops, in my opinion tone wise for me, I found the 2018 R8 to be the closest thing that resembles the tone from the real bursts Ive played. But maybe I got lucky and got a good one. I though it actually was better than the 60th Anniversary 59.


Thanks! First, very generous offer that i would take post covid. Only ever played one replica I do go there on business sometimes. Bartlett has 2 retrospec that look available too.


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## Dom Polito (Jan 8, 2016)

1979 930 said:


> Thanks! First, very generous offer that i would take post covid. Only ever played one replica I do go there on business sometimes. Bartlett has 2 retrospec that look available too.


Yes Covid for now. Curious what replica you played and what you thought of it. There is something to be said about getting something done from scratch with your specs, and getting updates of the whole process. In the end it truly really is you. And of course you can buy something that's already made to avoid the way time, which these days not sure what that is.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Cardamonfrost said:


> My gut feeling is that gathering the experience is part of the process that truly makes you enjoy where you end up.


I think this is bang on, and hope it garners the attention it deserves.


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Cardamonfrost said:


> I'm pretty sure everyone would agree, that a lp from one of the premium Luther's would be a dream to own. I know I have fantasized about it several times...when comparing the cost of sending a R to Historic Makeovers and still not getting the best components, a custom is "good value".
> 
> My only question is how would I know it's superior without owning what's considered to be the best of Gibson's production first? Or even several of the "best" that Gibson makes?
> 
> ...


100% agree... B


Dom Polito said:


> Yes Covid for now. Curious what replica you played and what you thought of it. There is something to be said about getting something done from scratch with your specs, and getting updates of the whole process. In the end it truly really is you. And of course you can buy something that's already made to avoid the way time, which these days not sure what that is.


Was a Monty. The fit and finish were not so great. The process is also fun. Thanks for the help.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

What about Gibson Collectors Choice? Resale should be good. Some of them can be up there in price but $10k should get you something nice.
Or are these all show and not worth the extra over a regular R8 or R9?


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Lots of good advice already provided and to add, I’ve had great success with the Gibson Collectors Choice series especially with the 58 Reissues. I had a Ronnie Montrose CC #28A that was particularly outstanding. Another option is to go the Historic Makeovers route. Get a solid Gibson Les Paul to start and spec. it to your liking including the finish, neck carve etc. Not cheap but can produce a solid instrument to your exact specs. I have one incoming.

I am a fan of boutique guitars including Yaron, Frank Bros., Knaggs and many others but for a strict spec’ed Les Paul, I prefer going the Gibson route. ymmv.


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## fogdart (Mar 22, 2017)

tomee2 said:


> What about Gibson Collectors Choice? Resale should be good. Some of them can be up there in price but $10k should get you something nice.
> Or are these all show and not worth the extra over a regular R8 or R9?


I’ve owned 3 Collectors Choice Les Paul’s - and one of them had been sent to Historic Makeovers. They are certainly a cut above the regular issue Gibson CS guitars in terms of looks, but the same issue of wood selection applies. Yes, they hold their value - but I buy guitars for enjoyment.


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## bluehugh2 (Mar 10, 2006)

To me, folks do often “hear with their eyes”. Point 2 is that everyone has their own subjective assessment and ears... I’ve owned a ton of everything... Gibson’s, Replicas, other brands...
And I played 4 real Bursts several times that a friend owned - including the Bloomfield (which I didn’t buy for the 5k ask because it had a repaired headstock break and it sounded “average” and was heavy to me).
You can buy a Gibson that really has that “fairy dust” on it... two that come to mind are an aged GT and a 60th R9 that @faracaster owned very recently. I think @bentwire17 owns the GT now. In my experience, having Tom Murphy associated with a guitar just makes it more expensive, not better... he aged with a razor blade - whereas Historic Makeovers does real aging (if you get that).
20 years ago, Guitar Clinic were the cream... they were about 5k used at the time. i could go on and on, but let me say that the folks with their own “take” on the Lester are gaining traction. I have a Gustavsson and a Yaron - and they actually solve what, for me, are some of the ergonomic problems that Lesters have. There’s Bartlett, Frank, etc.
If you don’t know what you want, you’ll need to BOND with your choice... tough if you can’t spend time with it before you buy... eye candy next...


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## fogdart (Mar 22, 2017)

I’ve played precisely two Gibson CS Les Paul’s that had the magic. One of those is the aged GT that Hugh mentioned - brought into the fold by @faracaster and now owned by @bentwire17. The other is an R5 (yes, R5) owned by @faracaster. But I’ve played hundreds that, while great guitars, don’t have the magic.

It can be done by the Gibson CS, but why take a chance on a real Gibson having the right wood selections when you can almost guarantee it with a great luthier built guitar? Yaron, JG, Bartlett. I would stick with those guys and not go to a fringe luthier. Now, I’ve said it time and time again “the Frank Bros build the best guitars in the world” but they are not Les Paul’s.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

This thread really exemplifies what I like about this forum. There has been no hate yet. For years on TGP I suffered through people projecting that no-one should own an expensive guitar, just because, well, because it's expensive. I could never deal with the jealousy or whatever else causes that type of attitude.. we all have money, and we all decide where we get to spend it.

Sometimes people forget how short life is and that money will do you no good when you expire. To get your enjoyment out of something as simple and harmless as a guitar should be seen as a gift!

C


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## bluehugh2 (Mar 10, 2006)

I second that sentiment, C! Well said!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I think a replica is fine and I consider the really great ones to be an homage to the original.

I would draw the line at putting Gibson or Les Paul on the peghead.


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## brokentoes (Jun 29, 2014)

I love these kinda threads as well, if nothing else but for the pictures of some incredible guitars. I agree though, if you can afford either of your possible choices. Do what makes you happiest. Its only money. We could be gone tomorrow.


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## bluehugh2 (Mar 10, 2006)

For us mortals “Gibson” on the Peghead could be an issue... for Slash ... “go ahead”... and then they make a Gibson version of his Replica!!! Think about it! Very strange! But not really... $$$


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## bentwire17 (Sep 7, 2011)

Not just a pretty old face .
Riding shotgun on a 59 GA-5 amp.


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

bentwire17 said:


> Not just a pretty old face .
> Riding shotgun on a 59 GA-5 amp.
> 
> View attachment 333671
> ...


Is that the famous guitar mentionned above ? Wowza


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

In the spirit of contribution...I'll add my 2cents. 
I've owned a few of the aforementioned replica builders wares mentioned here. Some were (much) better than others. Played a bunch more too. Each builder has their own "thing" they do well. Not sure I've played one that brings it all together. 
I'm not sure replica builders are relevant anymore. The replica's have their roots in providing the musician/collector with something Gibson could/would not do at the time (20 years or more ago) or something that these peeps could not afford. 
These replica builders now have moved onto their own designs (in addition to still building the Reps) and for the most part are incredibly successful ....aesthetically and sonically if not financially. In all these cases I have preferred their original (if not heavily borrowed) designs to their copies of LP's. 
The point I'm getting to is....and this is again entirely IMHO...have any of you played or owned a 2019 R9 ? I have had one and for me it's the best new LP you can buy. So, why spend as much or more for something that actually isn't a Gibson ? 
OK....here is the irony here....I sold this R9 to buy a former replica builder's design. However, when I return to LP land, I will first source out a 2019 R9. 
I know, it's very exciting going down the road of these builds when you order one one from the ground up. And if that turns your crank ....nothing wrong with that. I've been there and it IS exciting. 
Everyone has their thing they want to explore and investigate. Either path is cool and neither is wrong. 

PS.....I will say @gearlovin 's Vashenko that he has for sale is KILLER looking. I did play that guitar when I met up with Carl in May. I thought it was amazing. 

Love and Peace to all


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

bentwire17 said:


> Not just a pretty old face .
> Riding shotgun on a 59 GA-5 amp.


THAT is also a top of the top LP. 2017 60th R7. Best gold top I've ever owned.


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## gearlovin (Apr 9, 2013)

faracaster said:


> PS.....I will say @gearlovin 's Vashenko that he has for sale is KILLER looking. I did play that guitar when I met up with Carl in May. I thought it was amazing.
> 
> Love and Peace to all


Thanks Pete!! It's actually a special one.
I went a bit crazy and had a chance to own and played some of the most coveted Custom Shop.

In my experience they we're all good, but both the Gustavsson Pete now have, the Vaschenko and another replica I had at another time we're better.

When it's about accuracy, the thing that stand out is the woodyness in the sound.

I never experienced a product from modern years of Gibson that have that vs the Luthier stuff...

I had my fair load of burst inspired guitars and the Vaschenko and Gustavsson are my last one. The Gustavsson was sold because of covid and same reason I'm putting out the Vasch now.

Closest experience to a real one I personally had.






Envoyé de mon SM-G973W en utilisant Tapatalk


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

faracaster said:


> In the spirit of contribution...I'll add my 2cents.
> I've owned a few of the aforementioned replica builders wares mentioned here. Some were (much) better than others. Played a bunch more too. Each builder has their own "thing" they do well. Not sure I've played one that brings it all together.
> I'm not sure replica builders are relevant anymore. The replica's have their roots in providing the musician/collector with something Gibson could/would not do at the time (20 years or more ago) or something that these peeps could not afford.
> These replica builders now have moved onto their own designs (in addition to still building the Reps) and for the most part are incredibly successful ....aesthetically and sonically if not financially. In all these cases I have preferred their original (if not heavily borrowed) designs to their copies of LP's.
> ...


That Vaschenko is quite the looker indeed!


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

fogdart said:


> I’ve owned 3 Collectors Choice Les Paul’s - and one of them had been sent to Historic Makeovers. They are certainly a cut above the regular issue Gibson CS guitars in terms of looks, but the same issue of wood selection applies. Yes, they hold their value - but I buy guitars for enjoyment.


Thanks for commenting on your first hand experience. A good friend has told me to buy a CC if the time ever comes to it. He has 3 CS LPs and has lent me one once for a week and that short experience was enough to let me know they are very much worth the money, and my guitar experience is so minimal compared to everyone else here that I can't begin to imagine the other details I don't hear, feel or see that decades of experience would bring.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

faracaster said:


> PS.....I will say @gearlovin 's Vashenko that he has for sale is KILLER looking. I did play that guitar when I met up with Carl in May. I thought it was amazing.











SOLD - Vaschenko Burst Replica


Not so sure about that one but it's Covid no gigs planned so I'm trying to make my mind about selling some gear... It's really a special one. It was made for Valery wood supplier so wood are killers of course, including super Brazilian and one piece flamed eastern maple top. Valery work is...




www.guitarscanada.com





Thread closed./


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## bluehugh2 (Mar 10, 2006)

"Thread closed?"
Why?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

bluehugh2 said:


> "Thread closed?"
> Why?


I think because the vaschenko is for sale, so the OP can buy it. Which makes sense - he can sell it later if he wants to try something else.


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## mturk (Nov 27, 2013)

To the OP:

As others who have chimed in, I’ve got hands on experience with real vintage Les Pauls, Historic Makeovers, Collector’s Choice, Gibson Historic LPs, as well as a replica by one of the previously mentioned builders.

I would recommend finding a recent Gibson R9 Historic. Find one with a neck and top you like and you’ll have a great guitar that won’t hold you back and be fairly easy to sell should you need to.


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## Vally (Aug 18, 2016)

Guitar shop | Reverb


Shop Guitar shop on Reverb




reverb.com




Maybe something here might interest you. Canadian seller


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## gearlovin (Apr 9, 2013)

Vally said:


> Guitar shop | Reverb
> 
> 
> Shop Guitar shop on Reverb
> ...


Man it's about time you get some Gibson 

Killer selection... That aged Goldtop with p90 

Envoyé de mon SM-G973W en utilisant Tapatalk


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Thanks all. I appreciate the different view points. Ill resuscitate this thread when i have a pic to post


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

If I had the money Id take that Jeff Beck Oxblood for a spin!!!
C


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

The 2 favourite LPs that @fogdart mentioned in a previous post passed through my hands earlier this year. The R7 GT is arguably the woodiest-sounding modern LP I’ve heard, but I don’t like razor blade aging & moved it on rather quickly (cash is king).

I’d had my eye on the R5 Black Beauty (pictured above with a ‘74 20th Annie) for a while before getting it from Pete. It has a slinky feel with glorious tone from the neck & middle positions, but I struggled with the brightness of the bridge position. After trying a few different pickups I sold it back to Pete who absolutely loves it.

The night Pete & I did that deal, there were several Historic Gibsons in the room & they all sounded great, just different. A few years ago I traded a great CS Esquire & an early 70s Strat for a Shanks CC that was sold to me as a “Jimmy Page” Les Paul. I thought it sounded thin & lacked balls vs. my Bloomfield.

All this to say that YMMV, what’s perfect for me may not tickle your fancy. I would be reluctant to drop that kind of coin on a guitar without playing it first. Try as many as you can, when you find the right one, you’ll know.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

bluehugh2 said:


> To me, folks do often “hear with their eyes”. Point 2 is that everyone has their own subjective assessment and ears... I’ve owned a ton of everything... Gibson’s, Replicas, other brands...
> And I played 4 real Bursts several times that a friend owned - including the Bloomfield (which I didn’t buy for the 5k ask because it had a repaired headstock break and it sounded “average” and was heavy to me).
> You can buy a Gibson that really has that “fairy dust” on it... two that come to mind are an aged GT and a 60th R9 that @faracaster owned very recently. I think @bentwire17 owns the GT now. In my experience, having Tom Murphy associated with a guitar just makes it more expensive, not better... he aged with a razor blade - whereas Historic Makeovers does real aging (if you get that).
> 20 years ago, Guitar Clinic were the cream... they were about 5k used at the time. i could go on and on, but let me say that the folks with their own “take” on the Lester are gaining traction. I have a Gustavsson and a Yaron - and they actually solve what, for me, are some of the ergonomic problems that Lesters have. There’s Bartlett, Frank, etc.
> ...


I had the pleasure of playing the JG Bluesmaster (middle) & sunburst Yaron (left) earlier today. The Bluesmaster is was heavier than I expected for a Korina guitar, both weight & tone. It’s a RAWK machine, very different from a Korina Explorer that I had for a few years.

I often hear the term “articulate” used to describe guitars that I find to be brittle, but the Yaron had a wonderful clarity without being strident. Chords bloomed & maintained note separation despite being plugged into a tweed amp on the verge of meltdown. That one is special, glad you decided to keep it Hughbie.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

So @Roryfan what did you bring home? Haha


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Budda said:


> So @Roryfan what did you bring home? Haha


This ‘93 SG Special that I got from @krall last year. @bluehugh2 was kind enough to swap pickups for me (now sporting a pair of Wolfetones & swanky covers). I should probably learn to solder but then I’d need to find other excuses to visit my friends.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

@Budda those Wolfetones were in “*that* SG” (i.e. the one I brought to Chez @Adcandour ). It now has a pair of Shaws & sounds even better. Gratuitous pic below.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Still haunts me sometimes haha.

I've known about wolfetones for a long time and should have bought sets in 2009 when they cost less haha. Granted, I didnt care at the time.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Budda said:


> Still haunts me sometimes haha.
> 
> I've known about wolfetones for a long time and should have bought sets in 2009 when they cost less haha. Granted, I didnt care at the time.


You’ll have to make a trek to Burling-TONE once the apocalypse ends.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Roryfan said:


> You’ll have to make a trek to Burling-TONE once the apocalypse ends.


Im down.


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

Im kind of surprised to see this OP asking about legality, replicas are a forgery and trademark infringement, how do you know know that, but Gibson's incompetence is the reason that market to flourish by them not understanding their market and offering 59 copies when they easily could have. Instead, they kept saying they couldn't for various reasons but look at today's historics. "Gibson will never use Brazilian Rosewood again" but they did. One of their customer service people used to post on the Les Paul forum a few years ago and stated several times Gibson would never use paper in oil capacitors for OH&S reasons. Well, guess what? 2019/newer come with PIO from the factory. 

Having said that, I love my replica but love my historics equally. Both choices are 59 Les Pauls but they are different enough. I say go for a replica if you are OCD about 59 specs, otherwise reissues are excellent.


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Tim Plains said:


> Im kind of surprised to see this OP asking about legality, replicas are a forgery and trademark infringement, how do you know know that, but Gibson's incompetence is the reason that market to flourish


Hi Tim

Its because my wife, who i also consult more than google, was not sure either



There are many reasons i asked and i did not « know know » that for a fact: 1) there are many experts here that know this area much more that i will ever do and i value their opinion. Going with an approach of « i am ignorant » and a curious mindset, you tend to learn more, 2) some replicas, in other fields (take pharma) can be legally made and sold with subtle tweaks to details and or licensing fees paid to the owner of the trademark.
Cheers


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

My L.P. buy and sell days are over thanks to 'The Heritage' line of 140-145 - 150-155 's. 
I'm currently on safari for a 357.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

I bought a replica over a Gibbons. don't regret it at all

old growth mahogany, total attention to detail by one builder, custom specs etc

plus I thought Henry J was a dickhead

and that recent brand ambassador seems like a goon as well. following orders from the new management? if so I don't want anything to do with them either


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

bolero said:


> I bought a replica over a Gibbons. don't regret it at all
> 
> old growth mahogany, total attention to detail by one builder, custom specs etc
> 
> ...


May i ask which replica you got?


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

1979 930 said:


> 2) some replicas, in other fields (take pharma) can be legally made and sold with subtle tweaks to details and or licensing fees paid to the owner of the trademark.


OK, this is not the case. Gibson does have a deal with Echopark Guitars but I believe Vs and Explorers only.

Go with a replica, you have the cash, it's a great experience seeing the process from start to finish. The guy who built mine lives 45 minutes away me and let me visit whenever I wanted. It was great just chatting and seeing mine go from raw wood to a burst. Some advice. 1) Spend the little bit extra on good parts. I went with Tom Holmes PAFs and a vintage 62 or 63 wiring harness. 2) Research the builder. I don't think he makes LPs but will use Ian Anderson as an example. Don't ever give that guy any money.

By the way, does your wife know what these things cost?


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Tim Plains said:


> OK, this is not the case. Gibson does have a deal with Echopark Guitars but I believe Vs and Explorers only.
> 
> Go with a replica, you have the cash, it's a great experience seeing the process from start to finish. The guy who built mine lives 45 minutes away me and let me visit whenever I wanted. It was great just chatting and seeing mine go from raw wood to a burst. Some advice. 1) Spend the little bit extra on good parts. I went with Tom Holmes PAFs and a vintage 62 or 63 wiring harness. 2) Research the builder. I don't think he makes LPs but will use Ian Anderson as an example. Don't ever give that guy any money.
> 
> By the way, does your wife know what these things cost?


Thanks. Great insight. Im inclined to go Bartlett and probably go the retrospec route. And she does.

cheers


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

So... a choice has been made!


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## Dom Polito (Jan 8, 2016)

1979 930 said:


> So... a choice has been made!


And the verdict is?


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## 1979 930 (Oct 13, 2019)

Dom Polito said:


> And the verdict is?
> [/QUOTE





Dom Polito said:


> And the verdict is?


Bartlett Restrospec. June 2021 delivery


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## Dom Polito (Jan 8, 2016)

1979 930 said:


> Bartlett Restrospec. June 2021 delivery


That was my guess. Congrats.


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