# Age Restriction: good idea or enforced retardation?



## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/201...um=status+message&utm_campaign=naked+security




> Should there be a minimum age before you can use social networks or have a web email account?




Now, my kids have an online life and have had such since the time they could type more than brlfq. My son has had his gmail since he was 5 and his facebook since he was 9. My daughter has used Webkinz and a few other sites since she was 5. At my daughters school computers and online access is started in kindergarten, all communications with teachers are by email and all forms/payments are through online systems.

The way I frankly feel is this: if you want your child to be eaten keep them offlined.

 ok good folks, have at me, tell me how rotten a dad I am  My kids are savvy old hands and know how to keep safe and protect themselves and when they need to ask for help. Do yours?


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## Latiator (Jul 18, 2007)

Yep I'm going to agree with you keeper. If you want society to swallow the children, keep them FROM the internet. As you've pointed out, many tasks must be carried out online now however, social networking? That's a little different than gmail or webkinz. It can certianly get testy in the social network cyberworld especially when one reads the latest reports of rampant web bullying and the like. Children just don't know when to not divulge certain information, when to leave details to the imagination or when to limit only friends to seeing their profile information. Although I'm no expert, from what I can surmize, children need adult supervision and direction when it comes to social networking to keep things relatively safe.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

I personally wouldn't allow my kids on Facebook below the age of 13. I'm just glad my daughter grew up before online social networking and got to experience being a kid. Kids mature way too fast today. I think they will regret it and realize they missed out on their childhood when it comes time for them to have their own kids. 

And maybe you'll regret it too when they text you, "Merry Christmas Dad, sorry we couldn't be there again this year. We just have too many friends from Facebook to visit over the holidays. Hope you're enjoying the old age home. See you next year!"


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

To me there is something fundamentally wrong with a system where the majority of these kids have an average of 700 or more friends. If the thing was used for "real friends" it would work the way the creator envisioned it. In most cases its just a free for all.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

I have no children, but I am against social networking sites.

having said that, I DO have a twitter and facebook account, though neither one is used to socially network.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

I would hope they text. Too expensive to fly home. I never left my parents 'drive to' and as a result really resent the grounded life I live today. I really wish I had had the encouragement to have left not only home but town and to have traveled and had life lived in other cities and provinces. I'm 42 and have never been outside Ontario within Canada.

Cyber bullying isn't what is in the media. Yes, there have been a few newsworthy events of mentally week people who became prey. However, if you attend lectures on cyber bullying (which I do with my kids) what the police will actually lecture on is "its illegal to take a photo of your boobs and show your friends". No kidding, in the last 90 minute lecture on cyber bullying not 1 minute was actually ON the topic of bullies. That tells me the notion is far more media driven than case driven.

And I do watch my son  like a hawk. I hold him back by not sugar coating anything and not pulling my punches. As a result he can sift through what he experiences far better than not. This weeks big learning experience was about penny auctions. There is a rage over a new auction site doing penny auctions. What his peers see are auctions being one for say $1.25 for an iPhone so of course he brought home that excitement, so we had a discussion. The reality is that those ''pennies" are purchased at 60 cents each. That introductory unregistered no sim carded base model phone that was used in reality sold for $75 plus auction fees plus shipping. When you do a google (as I have shown him how to do) on the auction web site itself, the first 10 or so hits are pages on this auction site. The next 100 hits are reviews of it and warnings to stay away from it. So instead of coming home, counting out his pennies, registering and bidding on his own because 'my dad would never say yes' or because 'dad doesn't want me on this so I do it behind his back', and ending up in trouble, he came home and we together learned about this site and what the downsides are, and in fact that there were no upsides to it at all.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> To me there is something fundamentally wrong with a system where the majority of these kids have an average of 700 or more friends. If the thing was used for "real friends" it would work the way the creator envisioned it. In most cases its just a free for all.



The BIG reason for this is because these sites are primarily advertising driven game hosting sites. You cannot play with just the six people in class and your grandmom.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Like Keep I gave them the basic skills and let the be. I used to watch them on facebook.. but got bored. My son is amazing at Google searches. He understood the concept at a very early age. He's a hawk on Ebay....

Cone to think of it what I did do when they were young was to have the computer in the kitchen. That way I was around to help as well as watch.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

THAT is a HUGE key. There are a lot of parents that are far more oblivious to the activities of their kids than want to admit it. My own parents. They had this strange disconnect. I HAD to be in by the time the street lights were on. But, if I woke up at 2AM I could go out  and stay out. I often did, I was a very moody kid. Often went to cemeteries to read tomb stones or to Timmies for a coffee. But to this day I don't think my mom and dad had or have a clue about that. Wish they had, maybe they could have got to me before the alcoholism and suicide attempts and eventual long term hospitalization.

We have one computer, its in its own room and does not have a web cam connected to it (no space in the kitchen, that room is only 30 inches wide). 

About the web cam. During the summer one of the hacker sites was holding a remote on contest. The goal was to remotely activate and live stream peoples web cams. Just think of your laptop with its built in cam being turned on while your in... cognito >_>


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

keeperofthegood said:


> The BIG reason for this is because these sites are primarily advertising driven game hosting sites. You cannot play with just the six people in class and your grandmom.


Actually I would dispute that. It has been my observation that very few teens are playing any of these cheap games on FB, it actually is all the grandmothers that are playing them


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

i started using social networking sites before the days of facebook, where you actually connected with people you knew in real life, and i'm fairly sure there is a law about websites collecting information about children under the age of 13. That means they're not legally allowed to make a profile of themselves. This was an american based website, so i'm not sure if the same law applies to canadian social networking sites. (if there are any)

I don't think I would be opposed to my child using facebook when she's a reasonable age (she's 1, so i have plenty of time to change my mind) however random internet sites full of people she doesn't know would be completely out of the question. Guys are retards, and the internet amplifies that by letting them say what they want without being slapped for it.

There should be an age restriction, and anyone who's ever seen "to catch a predator" would know why.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Wait, wait wait....did the standard recommendation, that juvenile age children (oxymoron?) should be ALWAYS supervised while on the internet, get changed recently? Just because most of us, and I definitely include myself here, find that inconvenient doesn't make it wrong. Letting a 10 yr old loose on the internet unsupervised SHOULD BE a crime, imo. When the cops come seize the parents' computer, that has goat midget kiddie porn on it, that the mere act of surfing for it set off alarms with the FBI, the RCMP, and Interpol, and the parents claim no knowledge.......they still get to go to jail, never mind losing their reputation due to the headlines in the papers and exposure on the 6 oclock news on TV.

So...age restrictions? Nope. Supervision? Yup.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Actually I would dispute that. It has been my observation that very few teens are playing any of these cheap games on FB, it actually is all the grandmothers that are playing them


I agree with that. My Mafia family has as the low end a few mid 20's and the high end mid 70's but most of us are 35 to 55, and our family is less than 300.

I do wonder if it is trickle down. _Mom is there with 5000 friends playing games so I played once got 500 friends off her and just left them when I stopped._ Then friends from school not to be out done go out and get 600. Others that didn't know the reason just see that two of their friends have 500/600 so they go out and get 700 and more. It is easy, friends add onto friends add onto friends. They grow like bacteria.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

keeperofthegood said:


> I agree with that. My Mafia family has as the low end a few mid 20's and the high end mid 70's but most of us are 35 to 55, and our family is less than 300.
> 
> I do wonder if it is trickle down. _Mom is there with 5000 friends playing games so I played once got 500 friends off her and just left them when I stopped._ Then friends from school not to be out done go out and get 600. Others that didn't know the reason just see that two of their friends have 500/600 so they go out and get 700 and more. It is easy, friends add onto friends add onto friends. They grow like bacteria.


I have had old ladies I dont even know want me to plow their fields. I passed

I posted this on my Facebook page a while back


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

HAHAHAHHAHAHA GOOD ONE  LOVE IT  HAHAHAHAHAHA 




My "original" facebook was from 6 or 8 years ago. My good friend Casey Palmer invited me to join. He is a graphics artist, pencil artist, cartoonist. At that time facebook TOS did NOT allow anyone under 18, any postings of distasteful images, any animations or animated images and most certainly nothing flash based. HOW times changed. I use my facebook for three things only. A VERY small selection of friends I would invite to my funeral. Following businesses I have interests in, for offers, updates, general information. And for games. Some people relax with drink, others do extreme sport, me I play games or read books.





GuitarsCanada said:


> I have had old ladies I dont even know want me to plow their fields. I passed
> 
> I posted this on my Facebook page a while back


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

*Teach your children well*

Long before the www, the internet was a very lively place. All the tools of the www were alive in IRC, FTP, Telnet, the Usernet and email, usually accessed through bulliton boards and unused academic accounts from the early 80's onward to the onset of the www in the early 90's. As a newby in the early times, I revelled in the anarchy and innocence of the complete, unfettered freedom of communication of ideas and general fun of being a member of a global forum dedicated to just that. Then I discovered the monsters. I always knew they were out there but I had no idea...
When I was a child, I would run off in the morning to play in the woods alone or with my friends, come home for lunch and go out again to build forts, have stump fights or play baseball until supper. My parents never had to worry about me but for one caveat - there was always a naked man with a T-shirt over his head out there - and if I ever saw him, I was to run home as fast as I could and tell them what I saw. I never met that guy, but I was always prepared for meeting him.
When I was a child, I loved the cowboy and police shows on TV. When there was a fight or pistol whipping on the screen, my mother or father were sure to tell me that hitting someone in the head or stabbing them with a knife or shooting them with a gun could kill or maim them for life. What I was watching on the screen was Hollywood and not real.
When I was a child, I learned how to befriend a bully at arms length and try to reform him over time rather than fight him. I had learned what was good attention and what was bad attention bestowed upon me by my teacher and what I had to do when his attention just didn't feel right. I learned that to steal from anyone even in the smallest way was wrong on any level. I learned that treating other people the way I would like to be treated would yield to me the most satisfying life possible.
The Internet is an entrenched part of modern life and children can not be protected from it. They can only be prepared for it. That is a parent's duty and all they can do - tell them why nazi skinheads are bad and that sex is so much more than people humping and that there are turds in the cake of the internet.
As much as we would give our lives to protact our children, it is ultimately up to them to protect themselves on the basis of what we can manage to teach them and, often unfortunitely, their own experience.

Eric


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

If they're properly instructed & supervised and know their boundaries, there's nothing wrong with kids online.
Just remember as a parent--you need to be in charge


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I have had old ladies I dont even know want me to plow their fields. I passed
> 
> I posted this on my Facebook page a while back


LOVE IT! I feel tha same way. I play NO games on FB and use it to keep in touch with family and a group of friends I mountain bike with (It's how we arrange our group rides) My daughter has had a Gmail account since she was born only to be able to secure her name. BUT once she started G1 in public school she started playing games on the computer there! Now it's all she wasnt to do at home. What am I gonna do?


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

I've got a 10 & 7 year old and they both have their own laptops with internet - but they don't have FB or email accounts. So far they're allowed to go where mommy & daddy say it's ok to go (and I do go check once a week or so). My oldest uses for school and games like the Lego Harry Potter/Batman/Indy stuff, the younger one uses it more for Lego.com, ytv - teletoon, pbskids, etc. They've got to know how to use it, and for now they're fine with having someone set up "favourites" for them, and then only being able to access those sites. I know Santa really appreciates getting typed lists rather than scribbled ones from children.

We pick and choose our technology here - no FB, no Ipods, etc. We give them a little rope - but not enough to do much damage yet. If they need to email someone, they use mine. It also keeps me in the loop since I get all sorts of "39 Clues" updates... I'm sure all the cool kids at school surf with no boundaries and hook up with their friends online to save the world from mass destruction, but that's not gonna fly here at this point in their youth.

It's a bit of a drag to hawk over them with it - but so far so good for us with it. 

I know my oldest was absolutely floored when I gave him a couple pounds of printouts I had of Grateful Dead setlists I'd pulled off The Well back in early '92. He was pretty sure that was something from like the first computer ever... Green ink on huge paper with holes down both sides of it... "Wow dad - this is like what I'd expect to find in a museum or something. I can wrap my whole computer up in one sheet of this stuff..." Knew I should have held on to my old Commodore 64.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Best way to use the net, and maybe even a computer, is to think of it as a more convenient way of doing something you know how to do already, using other means. That implies learning how to do those things _first_.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

I believe there should be some sort of test to learn ones mental age and maturity and block out those who fail it. A lot of forums that would be otherwise helpful (mylespaul comes to mind) wouldn't be so childish... the same could go for Youtube comments.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Restricting - No. Supervising - Yes. Gotta agree with whoever posted that. 

Now for a hijack of sorts. I don't do facebook. Have no reason or desire to. When I was on, I got a friend request from a woman whom I'd kicked in the crotch back in grade 7,... for a really good reason that I don't remember now. That was weird. The I got a friend request from a client of mine - not appropriate I thought. By that time I was one once every six weeks, I just quit.


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## kous (Apr 12, 2007)

The question is interesting, because it already acknowledges that these are ok, its just a matter of when. Before this, I think it's important to ask if its actually alright or not. I don't think it's ok, and I do not understand why a child would need to use social networking site or email. 

So before we give random numbers, can someone tell me the positive aspect of using Facebook or email?

And to the big brother parents... at a certain age, we all found ways to keep things from our parents. It's much easier online, and it's going to come at an early age.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Robert1950 said:


> Restricting - No. Supervising - Yes. Gotta agree with whoever posted that.
> 
> Now for a hijack of sorts. I don't do facebook. Have no reason or desire to. When I was on, I got a friend request from a woman whom I'd kicked in the crotch back in grade 7,... for a really good reason that I don't remember now. That was weird. The I got a friend request from a client of mine - not appropriate I thought. By that time I was one once every six weeks, I just quit.





kous said:


> The question is interesting, because it already acknowledges that these are ok, its just a matter of when. Before this, I think it's important to ask if its actually alright or not. I don't think it's ok, and I do not understand why a child would need to use social networking site or email.
> 
> So before we give random numbers, can someone tell me the positive aspect of using Facebook or email?
> 
> And to the big brother parents... at a certain age, we all found ways to keep things from our parents. It's much easier online, and it's going to come at an early age.


Facebook to me started out as a pretty good idea. But it has since grown into nothing more than a marketing machine. If you are a normal person and you upload vacation pictures, or pictures from xmas or something and share those with your family (like I do) especially those that live far away. That's kind of what the thing was all about. I use it for that purpose. I also have one for GC but that is basically used for promoting the forum.

We also have a FB page for or shop and have well over 1000 of our clients on there. Mainly female, many under the age of 30 and some of the posts they make and the pictures they put up would shock any parent. Nobody needs to know these details of a persons life. Many of which will come back to bite them someday.

My kids are well into their 20's now so I dont have to worry about it anymore but if they were still little, I would watch them like a hawk on the internet. The filth that is available now is insane. They grow up way too fast


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## kous (Apr 12, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Facebook to me started out as a pretty good idea. But it has since grown into nothing more than a marketing machine. If you are a normal person and you upload vacation pictures, or pictures from xmas or something and share those with your family (like I do) especially those that live far away. That's kind of what the thing was all about. I use it for that purpose. I also have one for GC but that is basically used for promoting the forum.
> 
> We also have a FB page for or shop and have well over 1000 of our clients on there. Mainly female, many under the age of 30 and some of the posts they make and the pictures they put up would shock any parent. Nobody needs to know these details of a persons life. Many of which will come back to bite them someday.


For me I use it to keep in touch with fellow graduates. I think that was the original intent. I have to admit I have expanded from this by uploading photos to share, but it always has been among friends. I think because it has this root, many people find it different and perhaps "safe" from other social networking services. It's not really a site to connect, but to maintain connection with known people. Forums, shop, I think customers are known people so for these purposes I think it's ok. I'm talking adults of course. 

But for children? I'm not sure. What happened to ringing the doorbell or calling (on the home phone!). Pen pals anyone? Seriously, I think we will soon be "Facebooking" Santa instead of H0H 0H0.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Because block parents were a significant source of sex offenders. (this is the official position of the Halton Regional Police)

The reality is, many parents work shift. Most kids are bussed to school. To coordinate social interactions meat to meat is almost impossible. For my son to "play" with his friends after school he would need to take at least two city buses to any one of their homes.

Homework is online. Grades are online. All communication with teachers is online. All contact with friends outside school hours are also online. This isn't a small community with one school one church and an ice rink that is free. Those days are over for the greater majority of people.


As to Santa, old news for us by 4 years. 

http://www.portablenorthpole.tv/home


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

And I know there has been a facebook focus here. As if it was the ONLY game in town.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websites

There are dozens and dozens. Many come, many go. Facebook will eventually go the way of myspace and a new denizen of social hububery will rise up to take its place.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Another aspect to 'online' is that the world becomes smaller and the opportunity larger. My son's school has been invited to be a part of this. The "this" is pretty big, far away and the only way to interact with this global activity is by the use of social sites. And they are actively using and are a part of that:

http://www.vexrobotics.com/contact/connect-with-us

To say "no" to the social site part of this experience is to lose out on a lot of what the experience has to offer.


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## kous (Apr 12, 2007)

Being able to go around the world and then some, all with a click of a button, is amazing. So I don't think there's nothing wrong with the internet and being global. Many probably focus on Facebook because it's defining what social networking is. And it's the most popular and fastest growing among the youth. There is potential and people know; that's probably why there are educational programs and activities that use Facebook as a medium for communication. But does it have to use it? Probably not. 

The "tangeble" difference between virtual socializing and socializing in person is just the medium of communication. But on the internet, there are some dark areas that doesn't exist in real life. Saying it's safer for children to communicate online because there are crazy strangers outside... I don't know. For those of you that believe children are safer online, there must be a reason why you watch over your kids. Because the same aged kids outside, well they're running around without supervision all the time. 

What's next, skyping Santa? That's freaky.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

The Internet itself is probably the greatest thing to come along in my lifetime. For me it's become an invaluable source of info and enjoyment. I use it every day. I suppose there has to be a negative side to it just like everything else


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

I was just reading an email from an old business associate on how to reap the rewards of marketing on Facebook as you interact with your friends etc. What these people really do is mine the information you leave on these sites, it is a gold mine for marketing it gives them so much information about what you like, buy, sell, eat, drink and they use this to send product information your way and to try and entice you to join their marketing programs and webinars where they sell you more programs etc. I have many internet friends who make $500,000.00 per year and more just selling programs and information by email. I am not involved because I don't like Pyramid schemes or Ponzie programs I prefer to earn my money the old fashioned way. I used to be big in Dot Com circles, made big money but when it all crashed in1999/2000/2001 I also lost big time, I won't go there again. I still keep in touch with many of them, they will crash again. That's why I stay away from social network sites I don't want any more of myself given away. I can lose enough money on buying and selling stocks et.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

I have a load of friends with kids between 10 and 16..and, in regards to Facebook", they have like over 500 friends each..they accept anyone who ask them without knowing WHO they are basically...it's like a competition as to who has more friends. for kids under 18...a limit of "friends" should be in place to make sure it's a wee bit safer.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

fredyfreeloader said:


> I was just reading an email from an old business associate on how to reap the rewards of marketing on Facebook as you interact with your friends etc. What these people really do is mine the information you leave on these sites, it is a gold mine for marketing it gives them so much information about what you like, buy, sell, eat, drink and they use this to send product information your way and to try and entice you to join their marketing programs and webinars where they sell you more programs etc. I have many internet friends who make $500,000.00 per year and more just selling programs and information by email. I am not involved because I don't like Pyramid schemes or Ponzie programs I prefer to earn my money the old fashioned way. I used to be big in Dot Com circles, made big money but when it all crashed in1999/2000/2001 I also lost big time, I won't go there again. I still keep in touch with many of them, they will crash again. That's why I stay away from social network sites I don't want any more of myself given away. I can lose enough money on buying and selling stocks et.


Not to get way off topic here but does email marketing even work anymore? I junk most everything, very rarely read it


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Somebody on the DIY Stompbox forum posted this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UouP8cRYZ8

Very clever and informative.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Actually...Facebook can be a powerfull tool for little business like mine. I don't have 852 friends doh..LOL...but maybe 125 or so...all my customers are on my list, some actuall "FRIENDS", a few family members who don't live to close, and for family, it's nice to share picts and stuff.

So Facebook is not the new EVIL...not more so then when the Forums appeared, with IRCC appeared or MSN or any other internet ways of discussing or sharing. Get with the Program like an old teacher you to tell us. Favebook is here to stay and we need to get use to it.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

If I understand OZ right, you learn from an early age to look under the toilet lid before you sit and inside your shoes before you slip them on. The huntsman spider is not something you want to tangle with ever.

The internet does have its versions of nasty bugs. The sooner your kids know to look for, to recognize and stay away from the safer they will be in the long run. Second nature saves lives in no matter what the hazardous environment. I know at 42 if I move to Australia I would be at a serious safety disadvantage compared to people that grew up knowing the dangers. Coming to Canada as well, to quote a young lady from Adelaide here "I used to think I knew what cold was when the temps dropped to 12C!!".



HAHAH LOL Mark thats lyk COOL u no  w00t to window lickers!


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## kous (Apr 12, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Somebody on the DIY Stompbox forum posted this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UouP8cRYZ8
> 
> Very clever and informative.





al3d said:


> Actually...Facebook can be a powerfull tool for little business like mine. I don't have 852 friends doh..LOL...but maybe 125 or so...all my customers are on my list, some actuall "FRIENDS", a few family members who don't live to close, and for family, it's nice to share picts and stuff.
> 
> So Facebook is not the new EVIL...not more so then when the Forums appeared, with IRCC appeared or MSN or any other internet ways of discussing or sharing. Get with the Program like an old teacher you to tell us. Favebook is here to stay and we need to get use to it.


Nice video mhammer. It's a nice wake up call for those using it in that sense. But like al3d said it's a good tool. And it's going to be around. There is no right or wrong way to use something. But it can get out of hand. And if you go to the extreme and disconnect yourself completely, well then perhaps you're a victim of misuse.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

If you think that you can control your kids behaviour on the Internet then its fine, but as a parent I can tell you that you are seriously kidding yourself. Why on this good green earth did kids who had never been in trouble with the law riot during the cup, why are parents sueing some of these internet providers because all of a sudden they discovered that their sweet little Suzie had sent some pics to a friend that were compromisizing or worse yet they have a video out in Cyber space ( not the kind any parent wants to see ).
Kid yourselfs all you want but as a parent ( okay grandparent ) I know that our children are not safe from these sites because we have lives and can't monitor them 24/7 and as good as we parent they are kids and are fearless when it comes to things and have no street smarts to go with those cute little brain cells and will do things because it stimulates their cerebal cortex and the thrill ( I can remember what that was like ) takes over. And when you see so called grown up getting screwed over from the sites what chance does really a young child have.
Just my opinion after watching the news lately like the girl who was raped and then had it posted all over the internet and will never be able to clean that out, its in some perverts file and gets shared all over the world and then you think..........................that could be my baby girl out there for everyone to re-abuse.....................might be great for folks who use it for family and business but thats your choice to take that risk as a parent its our resposibility to protect our kids from themselfs ( please I am not saying that you aren't doing that, I truely belive you are in fact just because you asked the right questions and sought advise ).
Please be advised this is only the ships humble opinion and does the reflect the opinion of all the general puplic.
ship


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Ship of fools said:


> If you think that you can control your kids behaviour on the Internet then its fine, but as a parent I can tell you that you are seriously kidding yourself. Why on this good green earth did kids who had never been in trouble with the law riot during the cup, why are parents sueing some of these internet providers because all of a sudden they discovered that their sweet little Suzie had sent some pics to a friend that were compromisizing or worse yet they have a video out in Cyber space ( not the kind any parent wants to see ).
> Kid yourselfs all you want but as a parent ( okay grandparent ) I know that our children are not safe from these sites because we have lives and can't monitor them 24/7 and as good as we parent they are kids and are fearless when it comes to things and have no street smarts to go with those cute little brain cells and will do things because it stimulates their cerebal cortex and the thrill ( I can remember what that was like ) takes over. And when you see so called grown up getting screwed over from the sites what chance does really a young child have.
> Just my opinion after watching the news lately like the girl who was raped and then had it posted all over the internet and will never be able to clean that out, its in some perverts file and gets shared all over the world and then you think..........................that could be my baby girl out there for everyone to re-abuse.....................might be great for folks who use it for family and business but thats your choice to take that risk as a parent its our resposibility to protect our kids from themselfs ( please I am not saying that you aren't doing that, I truely belive you are in fact just because you asked the right questions and sought advise ).
> Please be advised this is only the ships humble opinion and does the reflect the opinion of all the general puplic.
> ship


[video=youtube;p28wayd-oAo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p28wayd-oAo[/video]


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

I agree Ship, though you don't have to be online to be raped or have a video of that rape made and put online. It is true though, and as the police will say "there is nothing anyone can do to take back an image or video once put online it is there forever". During the seminar that is one fact the officer repeated many times.

My mom and dad had no clue to half the ... NOT NICE ... things that were a daily part of the lives of my brother and I. My brother, when I last saw him, was on methadone trying to kick heroin. He started smoking pot when he was 9, his life never improved from there.

I think because my parents had the "world is wonderful" approach to life and didn't do a whole lot to make out the world as it really was that my brother and I walked right into trouble. I feel bad that his trouble was a lot worse than mine and I wish I could have saved him from himself. I try very hard to be as matter of fact with my kids. I don't sensationalize but I also don't understate. We discuss the news of kidnappings, killings, rapes, assaults and missing people and how easy that can happen to anyone. The Halton police are actively in the area schools and are in active communication with the parents whenever anything suspicious happens. And we discuss the forms that come home with the kids (though in this past year, those have stopped and all such now are emails). 

I know my butt heads will be butt heads. ALL kids are. But they are far more open to talking about their mistakes than trying to hide them and hope they go away. At least I know my daughter would tell me if a boy in her class walked up to her, grabbed her breasts and told her to suck him. A young lady friend of my sons (13 years old) had this happen to her at school and she has not told any parental authority figure. I got told when I had a side chat that it is up to her to talk and that all I can do is tell her to tell her mom or her principle. She wont though and that is where I think her parenting failed, that she cannot come forward and get the help both she and these other boys really need (the breast grabbing isn't the least or worst of what goes on in her school).

The article I linked in that very first post. If you have a facebook, put a LIKE on them. They do a lot of work keeping you informed on the latest and greatest scams online.


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## fredyfreeloader (Dec 11, 2010)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Not to get way off topic here but does email marketing even work anymore? I junk most everything, very rarely read it


To answer your question YES IT DOES. What they market is a way to get people to send you money for information from you on how they can make more money. They start out with an ebook, it's free, from that you learn how to BLOG for "fun" and "PROFIT". Now they only want people who are in financial trouble or a little greedy or plain stupid. Most of their "marks" are not so tech savvy. A couple of weeks later you will get another email asking if you had read the ebook and would you tell them what you thought, if you answer you get another email suggesting you take a course they are offering at special reduced price of only $399.99 for a limited time. If you accept you know what comes next and then again each time you buy one of their courses, soon your into it for a couple of thousand dollars, you can't stop now can you. You have got to learn how to make a PROFIT from your BLOG The courses go on and on and you pay and pay, guess who makes the big money. Some of these people have as many as 10,000 marks on the string at one time. YES there is MONEY in email MARKETING you just have to find your mark, it could be your mother ,father, an aunt, uncle, brother, grand parents, someone you work with, one of you children, anyone, anywhere, anytime. You see people who get taken read those emails and think there is a pot of gold at the end of the never ending rainbow. So watch what you kids do on the internet, kids earn money at MacDonalds, Tim Hortons, Walmart so they have money to spend, and watch other relatives who are not to savvy like mom and dad, granma and granpa etc. age does not matter in their game. Maybe I hijacked this thread didn't mean to.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

No, you didn't neither of you  

I know that people jumped on the facebook early in the thread, but it was about the mix of email and social networking. I think the question and answer were both on point and thank you both for that


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## Chubba (Aug 23, 2009)

This is a great thread - it's got me thinking. I have 2 boys, aged 5 and 7, and they have a bit of internet experience, mommy lets them get on sites to play appropriate games, they use the computer lab at school, and they tell us about sites they've been to. I'm ok with all that, and wouldn't have really considered that they get a facebook (or similar) profile at this point, but will likely hesitate whatever age they start asking (as a kind of protective impulse, i guess). 
I want to watch them, and be careful of what content they see, but agree that they will do a lot of stuff i will never know about (despite my best efforts), so I want them to be able to develop the ability to tell the difference, and keep themselves out of trouble (onlline or otherwise) when I'm not there to say 'you really shouldn't be doing this'...it makes me think of being young and around slightly older kids that would expose you to things you weren't quite ready for...you dealt with it - i walked away from many an offered smoke, or 'let's go to this place we were clearly told not to go to' as a kid (well at first...lol)

The internet is a bit scary when thinking about what your child could access, but hopefully they'll figure it out, and we'll be there with them trying to help.


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## kous (Apr 12, 2007)

I think most browsers offer parental control. 

Kids are curious, especially with things that do not cause direct harm. If you caught them on a certain site, chances are they've been there before, and they will continue behind your back. Preventing initial exposure may be more effective than constant watch.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

kous said:


> I think most browsers offer parental control.


You CANNOT rely on parental controls. They are easily defeated and most kids know how to do it. If they don't, some friend who does will love to demonstrate their internet savvy by showing them. I would like to emphasize what I opined previously - you can't protect your children, you can only prepare them.


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## kous (Apr 12, 2007)

bluzfish said:


> You CANNOT rely on parental controls. They are easily defeated and most kids know how to do it. If they don't, some friend who does will love to demonstrate their internet savvy by showing them. I would like to emphasize what I opined previously - you can't protect your children, you can only prepare them.


Never tried parental control, so I can't say a word, but if kids know how to defeat them, then I guess that means they weren't prepared ahead enough.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

kous said:


> Never tried parental control, so I can't say a word, but if kids know how to defeat them, then I guess that means they weren't prepared ahead enough.


It means that if they are prepared to deal with what's out there, just because they can doesn't mean they will defeat parental controls. Another example would be just because they can break into the liquor cabinet doesn't mean they will if they understand the dangers of alcohol abuse.

If they really want to peruse porn sites, nothing you can do will stop them. The trick is to educate them about child abuse, empty meaningless sex and exploitation.

And even if they can't resist going to an anarchy or skinhead site out of curiosity, if they understand what they are looking at, the danger is apparent to them and it is unlikely they will be seduced by it.

But protect them from internet content? You can't and I believe you shouldn't even try. Education is the best and only realistic course to take.


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## kous (Apr 12, 2007)

bluzfish said:


> It means that if they are prepared to deal with what's out there, just because they can doesn't mean they will defeat parental controls. Another example would be just because they can break into the liquor cabinet doesn't mean they will if they understand the dangers of alcohol abuse.
> 
> If they really want to peruse porn sites, nothing you can do will stop them. The trick is to educate them about child abuse, empty meaningless sex and exploitation.
> 
> ...


I agree with you bluzfish. But time is moving so fast these days... alcohol abuse, sex education, drugs. You can't teach something before they know what they are. Like I said, they're kids, and it will lead to curiosity. 

Kids these days are online before they know or even interested in sex, drugs, and alcohol. But there's a chance they get exposed to that early because of the internet. It's an ever advancing cycle. The earlier the age a child is exposed to the internet, the earlier they are exposed to "maturity" and this creates a higher risk of interest for them than they would in real life. I mean, TV is enough, isn't it? Controlling TV at home at least, is doable. Unfortunately, the internet like you point out is not that easy. 

When I was little I'd sip the beer off what my dad had left. I had no interest in alcohol. Parents didn't say anything. I did start drinking in high school. My parents bought for me for parties. They didn't say anything. What they did educate me, strictly, was about smoking. My father smoked. My mother made him quit, but he lied and smoked behind her back. He had quit before I was born. I won a poster against non smoking. Twice. Well, I ended up smoking (at legal age) and when my mother found out she broke down. You might think it's just me or that I wasn't raised well. Never had tv games, worked throughout high school, and graduated from the highest university this province has to offer. 

My point, "with the right amount of curiosity", it's easy to change. Imagine how much curiosity a child has. To them, everything is new. 

Perhaps internet is an addiction, like drugs, alcohol...sex... How many times do I check my email? Too many times... but it's also part of my work. I don't smoke nor drink now, by the way.


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## kous (Apr 12, 2007)

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to ask:

What are the dangers that parents are most afraid of?
Are the dangers, dangerous, because it has to do with age? (it's too early of an exposure) or is it because it can lead to real-life danger? (like scams)

Please don't make it sound obvious. It's a genuine question.


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## Starbuck (Jun 15, 2007)

kous said:


> Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to ask:
> 
> What are the dangers that parents are most afraid of?
> Are the dangers, dangerous, because it has to do with age? (it's too early of an exposure) or is it because it can lead to real-life danger? (like scams)
> ...


Well, MY particular worry is having an antisocial child. I see so many kids with absolutely no social skills, for whom gratuitous violence (video games and movies) is normal. Kids are becoming desensitised and i worry about the lack of compassion and empathy. Alot of Children these days have no common sense or basic manners that were a given when we were growing up (I'm 44 to give you an idea) Instead of being taught how to mingle at family gathering, they are given the (insert portable electronic device) here and go sit in a corner. I have to blame some of the parents for the statement "it' keeps them quiet" Oh man, does that drive me nuts!


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Starbuck said:


> Well, MY particular worry is having an antisocial child. I see so many kids with absolutely no social skills, for whom gratuitous violence (video games and movies) is normal. Kids are becoming desensitised and i worry about the lack of compassion and empathy. Alot of Children these days have no common sense or basic manners that were a given when we were growing up (I'm 44 to give you an idea) Instead of being taught how to mingle at family gathering, they are given the (insert portable electronic device) here and go sit in a corner. I have to blame some of the parents for the statement "it' keeps them quiet" Oh man, does that drive me nuts!


I never looked at it that way, but I think you may have something there


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

kous said:


> I agree with you bluzfish. But time is moving so fast these days... alcohol abuse, sex education, drugs. You can't teach something before they know what they are. Like I said, they're kids, and it will lead to curiosity.
> 
> Kids these days are online before they know or even interested in sex, drugs, and alcohol. But there's a chance they get exposed to that early because of the internet. It's an ever advancing cycle. The earlier the age a child is exposed to the internet, the earlier they are exposed to "maturity" and this creates a higher risk of interest for them than they would in real life. I mean, TV is enough, isn't it? Controlling TV at home at least, is doable. Unfortunately, the internet like you point out is not that easy.
> 
> ...


And I also agree with you kous. Children are potentially exposed to much more adult situations at an earlier age than I was.

I grew up in a "Leave It To Beaver" type family and enviroment. But I was a rebel and began smoking, drinking and doing drugs at 13. I loved and respected my parents but they "didn't know anything" about modern youth and I was the smartest, coolest guy on the planet.

Yet, it must have been what they taught me at an early age that kept me out of trouble. Back then, extremes were normal for musicians (Hey look what I can do to myself and still survive - oh yeah, look what I can do...). Somehow, I never stuck a needle in my arm or played chicken on top of a construction crane or even slept with the 2 bit groupies that hung around after the gigs.

I don't do drugs or drink any more, but it could have been worse but for the basic values and common sense instilled in me before I even knew what those things were. Of course you are right though. You can't tell a 5 year old the hideous truth about sexual predators without scaring the s**t out of them or even tell a teenager that you have wisdom and experience that they have yet to aquire.

I guess there is no manual to tell a parent what, how much and when a child should be exposed to the wider world. I suppose all one can do is be diligent and play it by ear. It's a tough job but somebody has to do it.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

What I tell teenagers is that they are "imbalanced". Which is a very normal state of being for people from oooo say 10 to 21. Some kids develop focus far sooner than others, some express expert parental skill for newborns while others fail to ever have that. In teens what makes us each "unique" diverges and does so very quickly, though by the time we hit our 20's the scope of that divergence is greatly diminished. While a teen who can focus very well may at the same time have no idea how to say "hey you're cute wanna go to a dance?" let alone how to dance and the teen that may be a 'natural mommy' may at the same time have no concept of how to budget any aspect of life (food, money, time etc). This is normal and to be expected. Most times teens will accept that when I say to them "you are phenomenally good at ..." fill in the blank there, they will also accept the critique too of "but boy oh boy do you not get ....". I think that teens can be very quickly lost if you do not give them credit or respect for those things that they do good at (and here I do mean adult level respect). They can be difficult over what eludes them but if you can be lighthearted and a little bit on the joking side they often will let that guard down and accept that they don't have all the answers and that "yes, this is a real problem for me I don't know why" etc. Then they will give you more time, a greater ear to what it is you need them to know and you can help them far better.

Now, I have totally forgotten where I was going with this post :C

OH YEA Scott, Starbuck. I think that parents as people have a lot of responsibility for crafting the world into which children are trying to grow. Kids don't have a franchise to exercise. We do. We allow such things as DEXTER to be our entertainment why would we wonder why our kids seem to have a lowered respect for law or life in general. In this case I think the apples are not falling far from the trees. My kids are in band, curling, music lessons etc for more reason than just that they are 'fun' but because these social activities go a very long way to helping them grow up to be communicative and cooperative in a social working environment. Yes, if I merely sequestered them infront of a computer I would not have done for them any good. I see parents do that and it drives me batty too. I feel that a computer is a means of extended communication when taken to the healthy ends and to the unhealthy ends when used as a surrogate a computer does a very poor job raising a child.


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