# Caveat emptor...bought a defective jcm 800 combo



## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

hey there...just thought i'd share my recent experience in purchasing a vintage jcm 800 combo at capsule music in toronto...

i'd been hunting for a working marshall jcm 800 combo for some time...i decided to check out a few instrument shops in toronto since the amp model has been out of production since the 1980's...

i ventured into capsule music and found a jcm 800 lead combo...model 4210...with channel switching and a single 12' celestion...on consignment...i played through it for 10-15 minutes...checking that all the knobs worked...along with the reverb tank...i was rewarded with a stunning satisfying classic rock crunch that only a marshall tube amp can deliver...i asked at the counter if the amp was in good condition...and was assured that it was...i paid my hard earned cash and took my "new" toy home...a little over a day later i finally got to sit down to run the amp through its paces...

whoa...the honeymoon was over after about 15 minutes...

i experienced sudden random volume spikes...followed by the tone of the amp randomly changing tone as i played...it went from crunch>fuzz>clean in a matter of seconds...over and over again...then the master volume knob seemed to stop working...then it worked...then it stopped working...etc...

my heart sunk...i decided to contact capsule music to discuss the amp...and was told that the amp was in perfect running condition when it was sold...then i was referred to their return policy on their website...

"Consignment items do not have a warranty,but come with a 24hr inspection period"...and "All amplifiers shipped are final sale ! "...and finally...

"CAPSULE RETURN POLICY: Consignment and store owned items have a 24 hr inspection period.Items returned within this 24 hr period may be exchanged for credit of equal value or a refund minus a 5% restocking fee * ( all amplifiers are final sale).Items must be returned in the same condition as they were sold "

so...after spending my hard earned cash i'm left with very few options...having had the amp over 24 hours...my options were pretty much narrowed down to..."hey buddy...you just got screwed"

caveat emptor...let the buyer beware...

the consignment seller must have known about the amp's issues...and "dumped" the amp off at the store...it doesn't even appear in the store's inventory pages on the web...capsule music accepts no responsibilty for selling a defective amp...both parties have their cash...my cash...

shouldn't the buyer reasonably expect that a piece of music gear...or anything else for that matter...actually work as anticipated...???...i've been laid off since february...so this kinda strangles me financially...

i'm forced to pour money into trying to repair the combo...i wouldn't dare try to turn around and sell the amp to some "sucker"...that's just plain immoral...

remember...caveat emptor...the next time you shop at capsule music in toronto...read their full policies here...

http://www.capsulemusic.com/retail/index.shtml


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## SteveS (Apr 25, 2006)

That's too bad.

Can you take somewhere to get checked out? It may not be as bad as you think. If it sounded that good in the store it's certainly worth getting fixed.

Those old JCM800's are some of the toughest and best sounding amps out there.
I bought my 83 2204 off Ebay a few years ago and was less than impressed when I first played it. It sucked actually. 
I took it to my tech who found some stuff that had been tampered with. He put it back to stock and when I got it back..whoa!! Now that's what I was expecting!! Big Marshall crunch. It's now one of my favorite amps. 

Good luck


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

hi there...i sought out a tech through my musician friends...there are less than a handful of true amp techs in the area...i dropped the amp off with "the best in the biz" this morning...a truly educated and well experienced highly trained electronics engineer...i was told that i'd receive a phone call as soon as the cost exceeded "xxx" number of dollars...that's the scary part...i thought i bought a working amp...i can't afford a costly repair bill...i was assured that she will sound awesome when it gets returned to me...hopefully for many years to come...
i feel that the original owner should have repaired the amp before putting it up for sale on consignment...or at least told the music store the it had issues...the store should have tested the amp out before accepting it...and not have a flakey policy that allows them to collect cash...and avoid any responsibility for selling junk gear...they should deduct my cost of the repair from the consigner and/or the store...
if i had gotten six months of beautiful tones out of the amp...then it suddenly failed due to normal "wear-and-tear"...i wouldn't have a problem with it...but having it happen barely 24 hours after the purchase bites..


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

This is a few years ago, but there was an authorized Marshall tech that lived in the East York/Danforth area. Good tech also. Check the Marshall site.

It is possible that the problems were not known by the seller and the store....it happens more often than not. Amps (especially Marshalls) can be unpredictable.

good luck


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Man that sucks. I'm sure that when you get it back it'll sound amazing. Chalk it off to a sh^%ty life experience and try to forget about it. At least you know where not to spend your hard earned cash anymore!


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## Shiny_Beast (Apr 16, 2009)

jimihendrix said:


> ...i wouldn't dare try to turn around and sell the amp to some "sucker"...that's just plain immoral...


Good on ya

I had one of these. I completely gutted and rewired it. Just sos ya know, these are the dreaded diode clipping amps. The early ones had a ratty treble heavy distortion, the later (post 84 or so) had a thicker more heavy metal type sound AFAIK. 

I own the earlier one. It's strongest plus is the ability to get just about any sound at any volume, great for home use and jamming. The downside is it's a bit harsh, especially at lower volumes. Mine could have used some more fat low end. It was the 80s when these wer made after all .

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but check all the tubes are in tight. Some of tyhe pots might be old, and thery're a bitch to change without damaging the board so be carefull who you take it to.


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## Guest (Jun 27, 2009)

Just a short drive from you is one of the best amp tech's around. Drop Wild Bill a PM. No doubt he'll have you sorted out in no time.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

hey there...i'm pretty sure i dropped my amp off at wild bill's this morning...i can't wait to get her back...


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

i was gonna say, take it to Bill and get sorted 

I read "defective" and my first thought was "i'll buy it".. damn bills! lol


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2009)

jimihendrix said:


> hey there...i'm pretty sure i dropped my amp off at wild bill's this morning...i can't wait to get her back...


Stoney Creek area?


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

jimihendrix said:


> hey there...just thought i'd share my recent experience in purchasing a vintage jcm 800 combo at capsule music in toronto...
> 
> i'd been hunting for a working marshall jcm 800 combo for some time...i decided to check out a few instrument shops in toronto since the amp model has been out of production since the 1980's...
> 
> ...


I thought you were dead.


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## Peter (Mar 25, 2008)

I had a solid state marshall that had the EXACT same issues you were describing. It was just shit pots. It could be as beautiful as they come one minute, and all over the map the next. Extremely temperamental. Here's hoping that's all it was on yours! :smile:


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Buying an amp that getting it to explode in your face right away..that ALWAYS sucked. happened to me with a Boogie 2 years ago. But from what i read, that mostly reads as a tube problem no?.

In anycase. getting screwed..never cool, but it's relative to how much you paid for the amp. Used amps always claim to have "New Tubes"..wich is BS 99% of the time realy. the 4210 is a nice amp, greath tone. i'm looking at one myself these days. i've seen their price from 750$ at the lowest, to 1100$ on ebay and a few places.

Can i ask how much you paid?...and as for the consigment thing from the store, check with Consummer protection...their are laws that protect you in most case. if they sell it, they are basicaly responsible for it.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

hi there...i'm used to buying gear from long and mcquades because they have an awesome 30 day return policy...and if you get a defective product...they usually have good ones sitting "in the back" all boxed and ready to exchange...
as with capsule music...you're not really aware of such a short "24 hour inspection period"...or that "all amplifiers are final sale"...they do not mention that fact at the cash register when it comes time to pay...nor do i recall any signs posted throughout the store giving fair warning...there is only a scant mention of it on website...(how many people seek out return policies as a first priority when shopping in person...let alone online...???)
i'm pretty sure i'm not the only customer that has had this type of experience...especially with older gear...where they don't have good ones sitting "in the back" ready to exchange...i'm also pretty sure that capsule has been well versed and well rehearsed in the art of getting the cash upfront...and keeping it...then protect themselves behind their clearly written "upfront" return policy...
it's kinda like when i buy my daughter clothes or accessories at the boutiques in the mall...they ring you through...print up a receipt...then take a pen and hand write "no refunds or exchanges...final sale"...then hand you the goods...along with the useless receipt...no signs posted...no forewarning...it's a shady business practice in my mind...
only...in the case of capsule music...i'm dealing in much higher dollar figures...and a reasonable expectation that the gear should work...and in my case of being laid off since february...the financial aspect makes it sting a little more...


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

JCM 800 combos were hit or miss. 

Great sounding but you absolutely need to hope that you are getting a good one.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Archer said:


> JCM 800 combos were hit or miss.
> 
> Great sounding but you absolutely need to hope that you are getting a good one.


I owned 11 of them..never had a single problem with them..all my band mates in the 80's used them, same thing.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Ok..but did the Tech told you what was Wrong with the amp ?..




jimihendrix said:


> hi there...i'm used to buying gear from long and mcquades because they have an awesome 30 day return policy...and if you get a defective product...they usually have good ones sitting "in the back" all boxed and ready to exchange...
> as with capsule music...you're not really aware of such a short "24 hour inspection period"...or that "all amplifiers are final sale"...they do not mention that fact at the cash register when it comes time to pay...nor do i recall any signs posted throughout the store giving fair warning...there is only a scant mention of it on website...(how many people seek out return policies as a first priority when shopping in person...let alone online...???)
> i'm pretty sure i'm not the only customer that has had this type of experience...especially with older gear...where they don't have good ones sitting "in the back" ready to exchange...i'm also pretty sure that capsule has been well versed and well rehearsed in the art of getting the cash upfront...and keeping it...then protect themselves behind their clearly written "upfront" return policy...
> it's kinda like when i buy my daughter clothes or accessories at the boutiques in the mall...they ring you through...print up a receipt...then take a pen and hand write "no refunds or exchanges...final sale"...then hand you the goods...along with the useless receipt...no signs posted...no forewarning...it's a shady business practice in my mind...
> only...in the case of capsule music...i'm dealing in much higher dollar figures...and a reasonable expectation that the gear should work...and in my case of being laid off since february...the financial aspect makes it sting a little more...


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

hey there...i dropped it off at wild bill's house yesterday morning...i have to wait for a call to find out what the extent of repairs will be...


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Archer said:


> 11...of course you have. I have owned 43 of them, one was made for me by my wife......Morgan Fairchild (I have seen her naked)


Lol...Pics?

Bill will make it right, and advise you of anything else you might want to do to make it better than new.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I have deleted several posts in this thread for obvious reasons. You know the rules and what the next step will be.


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

Diablo said:


> Lol...Pics?
> 
> Bill will make it right, and advise you of anything else you might want to do to make it better than new.





Pics are 3500 british pounds.....I cant guarantee delivery


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## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


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## monty (Feb 9, 2009)

Hey Jimi- didnt I buy a Dano Black Paisley from you a while ago?
Love the pedal BTW.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

hey there...yes...i sold you the black paisley pedal...what a heavy sound...i love the octave setting too...play on brother...!!!...


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## monty (Feb 9, 2009)

LOL, funny stuff.
Did you sell that Strat? I thought about it for days!


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

YJMUJRSRV said:


> Buying an old amp is like buying an old house. Expect to sink money into unforseen problems. Always factor in a few bills for new tubes at least. Thats just the way it is. sometimes it can really rack up the $ too. You have no idea what a monkey and his soldering iron were doing to it along the line. But you took it to a good repair guy and I bet you'll get a fine amp back. Might even be much cheaper than expected.


That's the way I see it too. I always assume at least the cost of a set of tubes and the cost of a tech to give it a run through. ie, add that to the price right off the bat.

Buying a consignment item is no different that buying one off of Craigslist. If it hasn't done weird things in the store, don't blame them. They don't spend time or money on consignment items - those items don't belong to the store.

But, as someone mentioned above, JCM800s are build like brick shit houses, it may be a cheaper repair than you think.


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## kruts (Apr 30, 2006)

Tube amps... perhaps during transport of the amp from store to home one of the tubes went? Tubes are like light bulbs.

JCM 800s are built real well. A vintage amp nonetheless so there can be pot, tranny, cap issues... 

Good luck!


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