# Tube Amps...how small is too small?



## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Hey everyone,

In terms of power, how low should one go if you play out with it? At this point, it would be at church mainly, where, for the purposes of this discussion, it wouldn't be mic'd...It would either go through a guitar cab, or feed a wedge monitor.

I am liking the little amps, Egnater Rebel 20, Vox Night Train etc...but are they too low powered?

Thanks!!

~Andrew


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

A 20 watt tube amp is the perfect size for home and most gigs.

Shawn :smile:


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## Andy (Sep 23, 2007)

Do you need pristine cleans? My 15-watt Traynor only stays clean up to rehearsal levels, but when overdriven, it's frighteningly loud.


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi Andy,

I tend to use a lot of cleans...very little distortion. If I use distortion, it's generally more of a bluesy crunch, as opposed to a metal distortion.

~Andrew


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## Andy (Sep 23, 2007)

I'm not sure, then -- I've gotten my Traynor pretty loud by using single coils, backing off the gain and cranking the volume, and pulling back the guitar volume, but there's probably better choices out there with more wattage. The purpose of small amps -- in my mind, at least -- is to crank them up for a nice overdriven sound at a reasonable volume.

Maybe something like a Traynor YCV50Blue would suit you better -- they have a fantastic clean sound for an EL-34 amp, but there's a master volume and OD channel, so you can get some crunch going on, too.


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

The circuitry of an amp has more to do with it's headroom than wattage or tube type. Take the Fender Twin Reverb as an example. It's 85-135 watts depending on the year and model, and requires a stompbox or modifications to drive it to saturation. Andy has a point though, if you want a clean amp you have to shop with this in mind. There are many amps that will provide great cleans at lower wattages.

Shawn


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Sounds like a job for a Deluxe Reverb (or Reissue). The perfect power-to-weight ratio.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

allthumbs56 said:


> Sounds like a job for a Deluxe Reverb (or Reissue). The perfect power-to-weight ratio.


The Deluxe Reverb (or Reissues) certainly are great amps. If I had to settle for a combo...that would likely be the one I'd choose. All the features and (as stated above)_"perfect power-to-weight ratio" _

There are also some great amp heads out there to consider.

Cheers

Dave


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## Gene Machine (Sep 22, 2007)

*Pr*

princeton reverb maybe? Same features, smaller size

YCV20 if you can find a decent price

YCS50, you can run on the 15 watt mode if you want.

there's a few around these days.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Gene Machine said:


> princeton reverb maybe? Same features, smaller size


Might do it...Andrew, you can try mine out if you want.

The Princeton Reverbs (mine is SF) are getting expensive....but they are fantasitic little amps.

Cheers

Dave


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

allthumbs56 said:


> Sounds like a job for a Deluxe Reverb (or Reissue). The perfect power-to-weight ratio.


 Fender Deeeeluxe rule the world. I was just digitizing a cassette tape of a concert I was involved with in Jan of this year. A guy named Mike Rudd was playing my amp....... 

They still rule.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

If you have the means, a Deluxe is a wonderful choice, but if $ is an issue, for clean at church volume (I'm assuming a packed house of 200 souls or so ) you'll need at least 30 watts. I also find the newer deluxe reverb reissues get dirty in a hurry - which is not what you say you need. That means a Peavey delta blues or a Traynor YCV-40 or something like that. 

Does the church have a PA system that you can be miced thru or run a line to? If it does then lower watt amps in the 5-15 watt range will work fine.

I use a 5 watt Blackheart amp in rehearsal and i wouldn't hesitate to mic it thru the PA for a gig (if it ever happens again...) but I like a little overdrive in my sound. However, if push came to shove I would probably bring my rack system which is 80 watts. Loud and clean _and _dirty and loud! kkjuw

Do you have a budget in mind?

Matt


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

shoretyus said:


> Fender Deeeeluxe rule the world. I was just digitizing a cassette tape of a concert I was involved with in Jan of this year. A guy named Mike Rudd was playing my amp.......
> 
> They still rule.


Mike Rudd from new zealand?


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

"At least 30 watts". I got a Princeton Reverb that'll get you to the church on time Andrew. If you want to give it a test drive drop me a PM and we'll see what we can do. Of course it's my baby, so I'd have to come along for the gig. :smile:


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

mrmatt1972 said:


> Mike Rudd from new zealand?


ooops one D 
http://www.jazzregina.ca/bios/Mike Rud.html


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

kw_guitarguy said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> I tend to use a lot of cleans...very little distortion. If I use distortion, it's generally more of a bluesy crunch, as opposed to a metal distortion.
> 
> ~Andrew



If you are playing in larger sized clubs then you are going to want ~30 watts. 

When it comes to tube amps and total clean tones and playing a gig I want something pretty powerful so that the power section doesnt have to work much at all.


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the replies. So, if I understand the general advice, something like the Peavey Classic 30 or Classic 50 might be a better fit?

~Andrew


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

*Tube amp*

Try and get something with a 12 in.or 2 10 in. speakers in it.I love small amps but they dont have enough of a big sound on there own,unless you will be miking it.Wattage is not the biggest issue for me.


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## rev156 (Mar 2, 2008)

I've got the Blackheart LG head through a 1x12 cab loaded with a greenback. I'm working on the 2x12 cab currently. I use it on the 5 watt mode and have non stock tubes. 
I play P&W at our church, we mic it with the cab facing me to use as a monitor and to lower volume coming off the stage. I can usually only get the volume to the 10:00 position approx. before the sound tech tells me to turn down. 
Cleans are not a problem, and I use pedals for dirt.
Cheers


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Get the Fender deluxe..it rules...even in larger place it will be perfect..i mean you'll most likely get miked..you don't play bars or clubs straight out most of the time.


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## soldierscry (Jan 20, 2008)

Trinity 5E3 kit is the way to go


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

soldierscry said:


> Trinity 5E3 kit is the way to go


Papa Andrew...

Ya...you aren't too busy...lots of extra time to throw one of these together.hwopv

Hope all is well with the family.

Getting any sleep?

Cheers

Dave


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## dan_ (Feb 5, 2008)

soldierscry said:


> Trinity 5E3 kit is the way to go


I was just jumping in here to say that!!! My church usually has between 100 - 150 on a Sunday morning, and I use my Tweed Deluxe clone (with VRM mod). The VRM lets me dial in the tone, we mic it up, and it's good to go. The amp is easily too loud on it's own for our space, so if your church is a little bigger, you could rock it without the mic.

Bear in mind, if you're a smaller church and you go this route, the VRM is a necessity to get those cranked tones.

Shoot me a PM if you have any questions (or want to shoot the gab about church music issues!)


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

If I had the money, I would get this (with 6V6s): http://www.allenamps.com/accomplice.php Evolved from the Deluxe Reverb but much more versitile. No tremolo, but I never use that anyway.


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2009)

How about 1/2 W? That's just about perfect really. :smile:


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## Brennan (Apr 9, 2008)

iaresee said:


> How about 1/2 W? That's just about perfect really. :smile:


That thing is way too cool, I want one!


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

When I go out to listen to music in my city (K-W, at places like the Boathouse, Circus Room, Starlight etc) I can't get over how unnecessarily loud some of these gigs are. Reading some of these posts I'm starting to see why. I can keep up with a drummer with my PR no problem. I'm not pushing any particular brand, but listen to the following clip of Jim Campilongo talking about how loud his Princeton Reverb is. This is a 15 watt amp BTW.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHVG4kDurtY

Shawn :smile:


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## Guest (Mar 3, 2009)

Brennan said:


> That thing is way too cool, I want one!


They sound great. The overdrive stupidly easily and really well. Into a nice 2x12 it's fun, fun, fun.


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

10 watts is half as loud as 100 watts and 1 watt is 1/4 as loud as 100.

turns out 1 watt is pretty loud then.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

tis. 5W is loud too.

i want to test the Nano w/ a nice strat.. I imagine some lovely tones outta thar


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

I love this Youtube clip of Michael Thompson playing one. Hes got some tasty licks, and some tasty playing, on here:

[youtube=Option]7U9ylAeSvDY[/youtube]




iaresee said:


> How about 1/2 W? That's just about perfect really. :smile:


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

KHINGPYNN said:


> 10 watts is half as loud as 100 watts and 1 watt is 1/4 as loud as 100.
> 
> turns out 1 watt is pretty loud then.


That's what I'm saying. A lot of players don't seem to understand that a 50 watt amp is not that much louder than a 20-30 watt amp. A 20 watt amp through a 2X12" is going to sound as loud as a 35-40 watt going through a 2X10". When guys talk about headroom in a typical gig environment, I have to chuckle. A popular mod for smaller amps with 10" speakers is to upgrade to a 12" speaker. This will noticably increase the percieved volume. 

Shawn :smile:


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

Andrew...I just dusted off my 15W (IIRC) National.............it has 2 8" speakers .......anyone who has test driven it wants to buy it..........you're welcome to store it for me until the warm weather............I also have a couple of 5W champ types, one with a single 8 and the other wired for externals.............the missus has given me heck when I cranked the 5Ws............says they're waaaaay too loud....lol


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## corailz (May 1, 2008)

kw_guitarguy said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> In terms of power, how low should one go if you play out with it? At this point, it would be at church mainly, where, for the purposes of this discussion, it wouldn't be mic'd...It would either go through a guitar cab, or feed a wedge monitor.
> 
> ...


Hi, i am playing at church too, and i was using my Traynor YCV40WR as well!It does the job very well and it was a dream to use it as a monitor!
Oh ,i forgot, it was always mic'd.....But at church,we have a little Vox AD15 that is a little short, but do the job!
For now,i sold the Traynor and i'm waiting for my new Mesa Boogie F50.....ahhhhhhhh!Guest what i'll use now!!!!!
:smilie_flagge17:


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

I love my Blues Jr., but even with single coils it's hard to keep it clean when playing loud. I don't mind a bit of drive in my sound, but if I was looking for cleans, I would want something with a bit more headroom.

I've heard replacing the 12ax7 with a 12au7 reduces the gain, allowing you to crank it up more before it starts to saturate the tubes, so that's an option you can consider with relative safety in a lot of amps, though I would research it and ask around before you try it.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

also, with smaller amps - elevate 'em.

put a combo of any size (except 410 ) on a 45 degree angle, and witness yourself the amazing spread of sound you now get.

next time you're rockin a combo at church or whatever - put it on a chair behind you, see how much it fills out.

free upgrade  lol


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## urko99 (Mar 30, 2009)

I have my 18 watt Super Champ on a *"Mini Sound Enhacer" *cabinet that I bought on Ebay and it sounds incredible! They have figured out just the right angle for the tilt, and the folded horn design really gives more bottom end, volume and Greater sound dispersment. They offer diffrent sizes to match most open back combo's. Check out more info on there Website. Love it!!


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Hey everyone,

This still on my research list...I am curious about the little zvex? How exactly does it work? I can't see it powering my 4x12 cab, so what do you connect it to??

~Andrew


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## DavidM (Jan 27, 2009)

I vote for the Deluxe Reverb. I've been using a RI for a few years (Blues DeVille before that, Twin before that, Dual Showman before that) and I find the DR the perfect amp. I even use it for outdoor gigs. Just mic it if you need more volume. And best of all, it's easy to carry.


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