# Are Us Canadians Less into Amps then the USA???



## wordsonyou (Apr 27, 2006)

Well? What do you think? You don't see too many boutique amps even in big cities like To and Van (unless you're friends with Faracaster), and yet in rural Illinois you'll find shops with every amp known to man. What is it about Canadians that makes us more likely to blow our dough on high end guitars than high end amps? Is it because the dealers here won't take a chance on boutique amps or is it because we think they are a waste of coin?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Interesting observation. I would agree that most music stores are not amp heavy here in Canada. Maybe you are on to something here.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

I have more amps than guitars and they are all boutique, vintage or personally hand made.

Yet my guitars are worth 3 times as much...

To answer your question, I have no idea but I do notice the same trend. I also know that I'm more willing to buy an amp unseen from the states than a guitar, which may explain it a bit.

.02


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## satim (Mar 23, 2006)

supply and demand. people in the states spend quite a bit more on hobbies than we do therefore it creates a market. canada has a guitar show the u.s. has several per year. it took me a year 2 sell 2 high end prs guitars here and the boys who got them got deals of a life time!!!! the canadian market sucks flat out


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## fastrack (Mar 21, 2006)

300 millions americans. 35 million Canadians.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

*Another possible factor....*

Service/repair & shipping considerations might play a role as well. Many high-end amps have solid warranties but builders insist that _they_ determine what's needed and then perform the work...which is entirely reasonable. The cost (and potential pitfalls) of moving it back-and-forth however are considerable. Personally, I prefer vintage amps as a great deal of info, experience, and advice regarding their performance is readily available. Just a thought. 

Steve :food-smiley-004:


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## oddio (Feb 26, 2006)

fastrack said:


> 300 millions americans. 35 million Canadians.


I used to joke that as Canadians we had the buying power of the state of Rhode Island but that's not really accurate. Population-wise California would actually be a bit closer. Supply vs. demand as satim noted. 

Please. Don't get me going on duty, taxes and experiences with the various courier companies.


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## Tarl (Feb 4, 2006)

Maybe we Canadians realise that most of your tone comes from our fingers/technique not always the equipment you use. I,ve seen guys with what would be considered low end guitars and amps just blow me away with the sounds they get.

Tarl


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

Tarl said:


> Maybe we Canadians realise that most of your tone comes from our fingers/technique not always the equipment you use. I,ve seen guys with what would be considered low end guitars and amps just blow me away with the sounds they get.
> 
> Tarl


A big +1 there. 
It is all about the player and their own voice. As a teenager, when we would try to sound like Clapton, Hendrix etc., we never discussed gear as the determining factor. It was always technique and feel. And what guitar suited you best.( Gawd I didn't even have a second guitar till my 2nd year of playing professionally.) I had a Traynor Bassmaster with a 4x10 cab and a Strat back then and I swear I could make it sound like anyone I wanted. Most guys in High school had Gibson SG's with Traynors and they all sounded completely different from each other.
If you want to see the living proof of this, go see Mike McDonald at Grossman's tavern on Spadina on any Wednesday night. This cat is great, he has been playing there since the early seventies (I know, This was the very first bar I ever played in. I sat in with Mike when I was in Grade eleven.). He has used the same gear since then. A black faced Super Reverb and a Gibson SG Special. Mike can make that set up sound like any thing he desires. It is all with his fingers, heart and mind. His SG shows it too. Have you ever seen anyone with a huge wear divit on the tone control !!!! Mike plays Hendrix, Clapton, Beck and a rather large catalouge of blues and reggae. This is what I'm talking about folks, a master guitar player that bought his gear decades ago and has/is reaping the benefit of it through his talent and hard work.



Having said all that..........

My name is Peter and I'm a Ampaholic.


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## Xanadu (Feb 3, 2006)

oddio said:


> I used to joke that as Canadians we had the buying power of the state of Rhode Island but that's not really accurate. Population-wise California would actually be a bit closer. Supply vs. demand as satim noted.


California, or New York and surrounding area.


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## SQUAREHEAD (Feb 17, 2006)

Tarl said:


> Maybe we Canadians realise that most of your tone comes from our fingers/technique not always the equipment you use. I,ve seen guys with what would be considered low end guitars and amps just blow me away with the sounds they get.
> 
> Tarl


*Technique comes from brain/fingers. 
Tone comes from the pick / strings / pickups / guitar / cord / amp / speakers / cab / mic.
Why did EVH use that same old Marshall head for all those years??
Maybe he could have had the same tone with an old Fender Twin?
lol.... not likely!*


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## wordsonyou (Apr 27, 2006)

Yeah I agree - great playing comes from great fingers and a great brain, but I have heard some terrific players sound horrible through bad amps. I've also heard some 3 chord wonders sound great through a great amp. So I think you can separate tone and technique though having both leads to a better music listening experience. I also don't think Canadians think tone comes from the fingers and therefore have shut out boutique amps - I think Canadians are doing the best that they can with what amps are available. I mean Traynors are the most moddable Canadian amp - you can practically turn them into anything you want and we have. But surely if we would get to try badcats, /13, tophats, matchless, 64 amps, tworock, etc etc some of us would buy in because it would be a way to get that sound we are looking for with no hassles and no weekly trips to our tech with out Traynor or Garnet trying to make it sound like amp X. The reality is when we get to see the boutique stuff here in Toronto in stores - it is so marked up that no one in their right minds would touch it. What would be great is if someone opened up a used boutique shop, got some amps and geetars in used and sold the boutique gear used up here. I'm sure guys would go for a small markup on used gear to try the stuff they've heard about but that would never spend big dough on new. Or maybe that's just a recipe for a bankrupt business.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

faracaster said:


> If you want to see the living proof of this, go see Mike McDonald at Grossman's tavern on Spadina on any Wednesday night. This cat is great, he has been playing there since the early seventies (I know, This was the very first bar I ever played in. I sat in with Mike when I was in Grade eleven.). He has used the same gear since then. A black faced Super Reverb and a Gibson SG Special. Mike can make that set up sound like any thing he desires. It is all with his fingers, heart and mind. His SG shows it too. Have you ever seen anyone with a huge wear divit on the tone control !!!! Mike plays Hendrix, Clapton, Beck and a rather large catalouge of blues and reggae. This is what I'm talking about folks, a master guitar player that bought his gear decades ago and has/is reaping the benefit of it through his talent and hard work.


I must stay in Toronto one Wednesday ( I work roughly downtown) and see this guy


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## µ¿ z3®ø™ (Apr 29, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> I must stay in Toronto one Wednesday ( I work roughly downtown) and see this guy


man, U then also need to stay some monday to catch kevin breit at the orbit room.
same deal. the guy has been using the same gear forever and does that wonderful tele cranked thru a vibrolux and does it all from the volume & tone control on the gee-tar.
i also must say that i've contemplated opening up a boutique amp store (maybe guitars?) but only since joining the gear page.


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## mario (Feb 18, 2006)

Tarl said:


> Maybe we Canadians realise that most of your tone comes from our fingers/technique not always the equipment you use. I,ve seen guys with what would be considered low end guitars and amps just blow me away with the sounds they get.
> 
> Tarl


Totally agree! I was in a store today and saw someone play some incrediable Wes Montgomery licks on a cheap hollowbody thru a piece of shit solid state amp. He sounded great.


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## Deadwrong (Feb 9, 2006)

I can tell you thier Stores are far better than the ones in Canada.


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## bluesmostly (Feb 10, 2006)

I think we just don't have a big enough market for the boutique stuff... James Peters makes boutique amps in Calgary and I would like to know how many amps he sells in the states compared to here... Maybe he will chime in on that.

good amps are more important than good guitars for me. and I have both. a great amp can make just about any guitar sound good, but a great guitar won't do much to improve the tone of a crappy amp. 

I agree, some good players can make a cheap setup sound good, but only if it suits their style perfectly and isn't too loud (bedroom volumes as opposed to gigging volumes). I have heard a number of really good players sound rank through cheap gear and it always spoils it for me..


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## Gravity Orange (Feb 17, 2006)

I have met James personally and have played through a Peters, and I gotta tell ya they kick the (....) out of alot of other amps I have played through. Definately worth checking out, Its next on my big things to purchase.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Maybe it has the distance amps have to be shipped. Guitars packed are what,... about 15 lbs?? Amps are what,... about 60 and up??? Picking them up and hauling to to where ever???

What's the chance of guy like this surviving in Toronto or Vancouver or Montreal: http://www.allenamps.com/index.html.

An operation like trinity amps (http://www.cohrs.ca/staged/Products_Main.htm) may have a better chance because has a matchless, marshall and tweed clones (and is the only Tone Tubby dealer in Canada). Could you imagine him making 10 varieties of tweed and black-faced available to the Canadian market. 

Wiith the Cdn $$ at .90 US, Steve at Trinity would be making less by exporting to the states these days too.

Warranty and shipping back to the US for repairs have made it less likely Canucks would be willing to gamble on buying form the US, even if it good,


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## leeds (Apr 17, 2006)

wordsonyou said:


> Well? What do you think? You don't see too many boutique amps even in big cities like To and Van (unless you're friends with Faracaster), and yet in rural Illinois you'll find shops with every amp known to man. What is it about Canadians that makes us more likely to blow our dough on high end guitars than high end amps? Is it because the dealers here won't take a chance on boutique amps or is it because we think they are a waste of coin?


I think for the most part, dealers/stores have to make dollar commitments to the manufacturers and amps are a little less transiant than guitars. Though, I was in the new L&M in Markham last week and they had a DRZ RT66 and A Victoria, as well as the Boogie and Soldano stuff. The ARTS in Newmarket, one of the best stores in the country, carries RIVERA, KOCH, and soon MATCHLESS, as well as full line MARSHALL and FENDER. They also carry Music Man, Gibson, Fender, PRS, Martin, Taylor, Larivee.
However they are reaching out to serious tone guys as well as everyone else.
Naturally demand dictates who is going to carry what and there a very few 
that will go full out. 
All we need now is a TWO ROCK and FUCHS dealer under one roof so we can a/b them side by each.
mark


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

Curious to see if this question is answered differently now than 8-9 years ago. 

I'd say we're into high end amps more now than before as your money goes further with amps than with guitars. Also with guitars a world class set of pickups in a quality korean guitars will facelift it 95% of the way IMO however an amp is much harder to achieve. Few techs can take a garnet or traynor and Truly make it a vintage fender or marshall. 



wordsonyou said:


> Well? What do you think? You don't see too many boutique amps even in big cities like To and Van (unless you're friends with Faracaster), and yet in rural Illinois you'll find shops with every amp known to man. What is it about Canadians that makes us more likely to blow our dough on high end guitars than high end amps? Is it because the dealers here won't take a chance on boutique amps or is it because we think they are a waste of coin?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

fastrack said:


> 300 millions americans. 35 million Canadians.


There are undoubtedly other factors but this is the largest reason, by far.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Go to The Gear Page. Check out the # of posts in the Guitar forum and the number in the Amp forum That should answer it.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

My 2 favorite amps to play through we're both solid state amps interesting enough. 
A Fender M80 series from the 90,s (God I wish I still had that one) and a simple Peavey Envoy 110 trans tube. 

I've had a couple of Marshall JCM800's which I was never satisfied with, sold them for big bucks though. 

Been thinking of of getting a peavey bassman clone and giving it a spin.

but with my new found (compared to actually playing that is) affection for modelling units, I may never buy an amp again.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

djmarcelca said:


> I've had a couple of Marshall JCM800's which I was never satisfied with, sold them for big bucks though.


I don't blame you for selling them, a lot of amp to handle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Listen to Brian May's interview about his Red Special guitar. He gets sounds out of that guitar I thought was only possible with effects. I guess that's why Steve Vai rated Brian as the #1 "musical" guitar player.


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

All we have here in my town is a couple of music stores that sell the same new stuff, year after year. No vintage or boutique amps anywhere except maybe 1 turns up every 2 years on local Kijiji or Craigslist. 
Once every year or two I make a trip down to Emerald City Guitars in Seattle. What a treat! So many great vintage amps and guitars there. It's like a completely different world down there.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Moog Audio carries a pretty decent line of boutique amps. Not sure what it was like back then. It's also been around 8 years since this was posted. As we've become more aware of what's out there, we've been buying and selling thus increasing the options in our used market.

As for the tone fingers thing, I agree with what was posted by "wordsonyou". You can only do so much with your fingers/brain and then it's up to the amp. I've come to realize that while limited playing a $3K guitar into a $149 chinese champ. It's a fight for sure.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

adcandour said:


> Moog Audio carries a pretty decent line of boutique amps.


 /13 & a few fun things. I agree with you there.
Being out East I saw more boutique style amps, not much to come here to Calgary.



keithb7 said:


> All we have here in my town is a couple of music stores that sell the same new stuff, year after year. No vintage or boutique amps anywhere except maybe 1 turns up every 2 years on local Kijiji or Craigslist.
> Once every year or two I make a trip down to Emerald City Guitars in Seattle. What a treat! So many great vintage amps and guitars there. It's like a completely different world down there.


I took a trip to NYC a few years ago, ohhhh, the amps & decent pricing. Vintage & boutique.
Made me cry. No, really, tears, as to how I could get one to Ottawa at the time.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## J-75 (Jul 29, 2010)

What defines a boutique amp?
All amps consist of an assemblage of commodity components, from resistors to speakers.
Okay, maybe some transformers are custom made.
Circuits are open-source.
Aside from care in construction, there isn't much distinction in their makeup.
With adequate skills, hand 'tuning' a circuit can be performed on any brand.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

J-75 said:


> What defines a boutique amp?
> All amps consist of an assemblage of commodity components, from resistors to speakers.
> Okay, maybe some transformers are custom made.
> Circuits are open-source.
> ...


Boutique usually means not mass produced, as I understand it.


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## bileshake (Aug 18, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> There are undoubtedly other factors but this is the largest reason, by far.


That's where I chime in, I think cost of living is different. By the time you get your favourite American or British amp here and pay rediculous amount of sales taxes and income tax on your money... your tapped.


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## therealjoeblow (Apr 25, 2015)

Perhaps were just smarter? Personally I do not equate either expensive nor boutique with quality and value. $300-$400 for modded tubescreamer clones and $3000-$4000 for modded plexi or Fender clones just seems a bit ridiculous to me. I think you can get great tone for way less, and as said above, it's really the playing that counts anyway, not the fancy gear.


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

Maybe. This place is sitting in Saskatoon:

http://villageguitars.ca/

I think they have a nice Facebook page if I recall.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

dcole said:


> Maybe. This place is sitting in Saskatoon:
> 
> http://villageguitars.ca/
> 
> I think they have a nice Facebook page if I recall.


Do they have nice amps? Next time I go out to see the grandsons I'll see. I know that these are fair to middling good http://www.electroglideamps.com/ 
I don't know if they are 'boutique' or what but we're Canadian.....we don't say much, we just play what we like. I don't own one of WC's amps. Last time I was in the Hat I tried one, next time I might buy one. They got a pretty cool name too.


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

They have a lot of vintage gear. Their site shows pictures of a Little Walter and I thought I had seen some /13's there before. There are some Morgans in the pictures as well.


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

I have always found Americans have always been more eager to embrace Blue collar culture than Canadians.
Its a poor description but a distinct cultural difference... I look at their Hotrod car culture as a prime example.
My parents generation, Immigrants from post war europe, frowned upon impractical things like, electric guitars, 
new cars, turning the heat on in the house, credit cards, air conditioning and other attributes of the "softer generation". 

While the population is a factor, places like House of Guitars in Rochester, NY population 210,000 have always been Jam Packed with everything you could Imagine at the time probably 5 million in guitar inventory... I first visited the place in 1986 and it was Jaw Dropping there was nothing like it in Toronto, a city with a population of 2+ million. At the time a well stocked store like Steves or L&M Bloor probably had about 1.5 mil inventory in all categories. 

Likewise My older Windsor Friends speak of going to Detroit to buy "real amps" like super reverbs because there was no selection 
in Canada. 

I remember when your local music store had one single Les Paul deluxe that hung on the wall for years with a do not touch sign on it. 

As much as we think we have progressed we are still light years behind our American friends when it comes to our consumer tastes 
for the less practical luxuries. 

p


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

sambonee said:


> Curious to see if this question is answered differently now than 8-9 years ago.
> 
> I'd say we're into high end amps more now than before as your money goes further with amps than with guitars. Also with guitars a world class set of pickups in a quality korean guitars will facelift it 95% of the way IMO however an amp is much harder to achieve. Few techs can take a garnet or traynor and Truly make it a vintage fender or marshall.


well I would agree with the concept but point out that its easier to get a vintage Traynor to sound like a vintage Marshall than it is a new Marshall re-issue.
Neither task is actually easy. While a great set of boutique pickups can take you a long way there are still some subtleties many people miss 
doing a guitar conversion. 

Otherwise we should all be able to slap a set of Boutique tele pickups into a new guitar and sound like Roy Buchanan.
So far only Danny Gatton has actually pulled that trick off. 


p


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2015)

One things for certain: you don't realize how fewer there are of Canadians than Americans and what a huge difference that makes on markets and availability until you leave Canada. Consider it: there are more people living in California as there are in the entire *country* of Canada. That just means more people like the things you like, statistically speaking, so what you like will be easier to come by. I used to joke that if your hobby was driving tanks up the side of a hill shooting gophers, there's some place in California where you can do that. And it's smaller, so more people, more density -- it's just easier to sell things and get things here.


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

I basically only have vintage gear . my 79 mesa mark 2a,70Jordan j10, 70s-80s rick copy ,68-71 Goya I pickup wen my vacation pay comes in. I basically can't afford no high end amps 

proud boogie owner


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

This is one Canuck who is into good amps. There is no space in my life for cheap crappy amps. Been there. Done that. Lost tons of money in the process. I have spent God knows how much more money by going through a slew of cheap amps and of course the never ending parade of pedals than it would have cost me to simply start out with a great amp and not have to keep on searching for years to find that "tone" that only comes with great, seminal amplifiers. This is just my opinion of course and I realise I'm in the minority on this. I look around and I can plainly see how most people are perfectly happy playing their $3000 Les Pauls through some cheap $495 Blues Junior or worse, some POS software modelling disposable toy. I am of the opinion that people would be far better served to pay $495 for an Epiphone LP and buy a great sounding $3K amplifier. The vast majority have it all back-asswards. I can understand why. Amps don't have the sex appeal of shiny glossy surfaces and flame maple tops. Tolex is boring. Doesn't change the fact that amps are where it's at. We can argue until the cows come home about this pickup or that pickup, which tone-wood sounds better, different pots (250s or 500s) or the merits of installing caps on our pots. We can also argue that it's all in the hands. Blah, blah, blah. It just goes on and on and on. The truth is the amplifier is the only component in the system that makes the sound we hear with our ears. It's that simple and it is also impervious to argument. The amp is every bit as much an instrument as the guitar and it is in fact more important than the guitar with regard to tone. I know people will rag on me for that comment and they're free to do so. I'm not saying the guitar is unimportant, just that the amp is more important because it's what we hear. And before you get started, I don't buy that crap that it only amplifies a good or bad signal and the guitar is still more important. Sorry. Wrong. A $200 Squier Chinese Strat played through a Brownface 1964 Vibroverb will always sound infinitely better than a USA Select Strat through a Frontman25. (same player)

Again, my opinion.
Just saying out loud what I usually think to myself. 
That tendency comes with age and experience.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

BMW-KTM said:


> This is one Canuck who is into good amps. There is no space in my life for cheap crappy amps. Been there. Done that. Lost tons of money in the process. I have spent God knows how much more money by going through a slew of cheap amps and of course the never ending parade of pedals than it would have cost me to simply start out with a great amp and not have to keep on searching for years to find that "tone" that only comes with great, seminal amplifiers. This is just my opinion of course and I realise I'm in the minority on this. I look around and I can plainly see how most people are perfectly happy playing their $3000 Les Pauls through some cheap $495 Blues Junior or worse, some POS software modelling disposable toy. I am of the opinion that people would be far better served to pay $495 for an Epiphone LP and buy a great sounding $3K amplifier. The vast majority have it all back-asswards. I can understand why. Amps don't have the sex appeal of shiny glossy surfaces and flame maple tops. Tolex is boring. Doesn't change the fact that amps are where it's at. We can argue until the cows come home about this pickup or that pickup, which tone-wood sounds better, different pots (250s or 500s) or the merits of installing caps on our pots. We can also argue that it's all in the hands. Blah, blah, blah. It just goes on and on and on. The truth is the amplifier is the only component in the system that makes the sound we hear with our ears. It's that simple and it is also impervious to argument. The amp is every bit as much an instrument as the guitar and it is in fact more important than the guitar with regard to tone. I know people will rag on me for that comment and they're free to do so. I'm not saying the guitar is unimportant, just that the amp is more important because it's what we hear. And before you get started, I don't buy that crap that it only amplifies a good or bad signal and the guitar is still more important. Sorry. Wrong. A $200 Squier Chinese Strat played through a Brownface 1964 Vibroverb will always sound infinitely better than a USA Select Strat through a Frontman25. (same player)
> 
> Again, my opinion.
> Just saying out loud what I usually think to myself.
> That tendency comes with age and experience.


Without the guitar the amp is just a box. Without an amp a solid bodied guitar isn't very loud. If you're playing for yourself a hollow or a semi-hollow bodied guitar doesn't need an amp. It's the chicken and egg thing. As far as the amp goes, that all depends on what tone or sound you are looking for. Me, I happen to like the sound of one of my old guitars makes being played through one of my inexpensive, old Canadian amps. My most expensive amp is my '69 YGM2....$100. The newest amp I have that I use is the '69 YGM2. IMHO most people put together rigs that produce the sound they want to hear. That's what I have.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

I think the relationship between the price of an amp and it's sound quality has been very overstated here.
Same for reliability.
Aside from the real low end stuff.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

BMW-KTM said:


> This is one Canuck who is into good amps. There is no space in my life for cheap crappy amps. Been there. Done that. Lost tons of money in the process. I have spent God knows how much more money by going through a slew of cheap amps and of course the never ending parade of pedals than it would have cost me to simply start out with a great amp and not have to keep on searching for years to find that "tone" that only comes with great, seminal amplifiers. This is just my opinion of course and I realise I'm in the minority on this. I look around and I can plainly see how most people are perfectly happy playing their $3000 Les Pauls through some cheap $495 Blues Junior or worse, some POS software modelling disposable toy. I am of the opinion that people would be far better served to pay $495 for an Epiphone LP and buy a great sounding $3K amplifier. The vast majority have it all back-asswards. I can understand why. Amps don't have the sex appeal of shiny glossy surfaces and flame maple tops. Tolex is boring. Doesn't change the fact that amps are where it's at. We can argue until the cows come home about this pickup or that pickup, which tone-wood sounds better, different pots (250s or 500s) or the merits of installing caps on our pots. We can also argue that it's all in the hands. Blah, blah, blah. It just goes on and on and on. The truth is the amplifier is the only component in the system that makes the sound we hear with our ears. It's that simple and it is also impervious to argument. The amp is every bit as much an instrument as the guitar and it is in fact more important than the guitar with regard to tone. I know people will rag on me for that comment and they're free to do so. I'm not saying the guitar is unimportant, just that the amp is more important because it's what we hear. And before you get started, I don't buy that crap that it only amplifies a good or bad signal and the guitar is still more important. Sorry. Wrong. A $200 Squier Chinese Strat played through a Brownface 1964 Vibroverb will always sound infinitely better than a USA Select Strat through a Frontman25. (same player)
> 
> Again, my opinion.
> Just saying out loud what I usually think to myself.
> That tendency comes with age and experience.


I love this post. 

I agree and don't with parts of it but the way it was put down is awesome, I get this zero f#!k$ given vibe. If that isn't the case I apologize. I will say this after owning a ton of entry level guitars I won't go back, now that I own deluxe this and reissue that with some custom pieces thrown in the mix but I won't hesitate to plug and play a Blues Jr. I've also had some nice classic and boutique amps but so much can be done with off the shelf stuff I don't mind them even though I can't wait to own a Dr Z again or buy a Swart.

This all of is up the ear, wallet and feelings of the individual and should always be that way.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I'm huge into amp. Yep - one amp. But, to me, the amp means nothing without good pick-ups. Further, discussing the tone of wood has always been a bit much. I was very happy to see a respected luthier also emphatically agree. 

Now, the _feel_ of the wood on a fretboard under my fingers is a different story.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

What is a high quality tube amp for an,... apartment.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

For an apartment you prolly shouldn't use an amp at all. Pretty much any amp will be too loud for most buildings. A 50's Tweed Champ is only 5 watts and it's still too loud for most buildings. On the other hand you could turn down and use a pedal for grind but that kinda defeats the purpose of having a great amp and discovering it's sweet spot range. I tell my apartment dwelling friends to get a headphone preamp for home practice.


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

Robert1950 said:


> What is a high quality tube amp for an,... apartment.


100watt Mesa if you play it at two . I can't get enough of that thing 

proud boogie owner


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

BMW-KTM said:


> This is one Canuck who is into good amps. There is no space in my life for cheap crappy amps. Been there. Done that. Lost tons of money in the process. I have spent God knows how much more money by going through a slew of cheap amps and of course the never ending parade of pedals than it would have cost me to simply start out with a great amp and not have to keep on searching for years to find that "tone" that only comes with great, seminal amplifiers. This is just my opinion of course and I realise I'm in the minority on this. I look around and I can plainly see how most people are perfectly happy playing their $3000 Les Pauls through some cheap $495 Blues Junior or worse, some POS software modelling disposable toy. I am of the opinion that people would be far better served to pay $495 for an Epiphone LP and buy a great sounding $3K amplifier. The vast majority have it all back-asswards. I can understand why. Amps don't have the sex appeal of shiny glossy surfaces and flame maple tops. Tolex is boring. Doesn't change the fact that amps are where it's at. We can argue until the cows come home about this pickup or that pickup, which tone-wood sounds better, different pots (250s or 500s) or the merits of installing caps on our pots. We can also argue that it's all in the hands. Blah, blah, blah. It just goes on and on and on. The truth is the amplifier is the only component in the system that makes the sound we hear with our ears. It's that simple and it is also impervious to argument. The amp is every bit as much an instrument as the guitar and it is in fact more important than the guitar with regard to tone. I know people will rag on me for that comment and they're free to do so. I'm not saying the guitar is unimportant, just that the amp is more important because it's what we hear. And before you get started, I don't buy that crap that it only amplifies a good or bad signal and the guitar is still more important. Sorry. Wrong. A $200 Squier Chinese Strat played through a Brownface 1964 Vibroverb will always sound infinitely better than a USA Select Strat through a Frontman25. (same player)
> 
> Again, my opinion.
> Just saying out loud what I usually think to myself.
> That tendency comes with age and experience.


While I agree with most of what you've said, I'd like to point out the 'point of diminishing returns' point.

Your examples of $3000 guitar / $500 amp and vise versa. The improvements between $500 and $1000 (either guitar or amp) is, IMO, much more noticeable than the difference between $1000 and $3000. But more difference between that $1000/$3000 than between $3,000 and $30,000.

With this in mind, I would contend that I would get better sound/playability combination from a $1k guitar / $1k amp combo than either of the 500/3000 examples. And if I pushed it to a $1500 guitar and $1500 amp (+/- a couple bucks either way), that would be significantly better than the 500/3000 examples, for still less money.

While I agree that the diff between a $1500 guitar and a $3k guitar is mostly flash and prestige, I think the same of guitar amps. The sonic differences are negligible, except in an anechoic chamber (and some cork-sniffery websites........).


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

I won't argue there is a point where diminishing returns kicks in but I will argue that (for me) that point kicks in much later than $1K


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

BMW-KTM said:


> I won't argue there is a point where diminishing returns kicks in but I will argue that (for me) that point kicks in much later than $1K


Well, for amps anyways. You seem fine with $500 guitars. I'm not. Personally, I will give up a bit of amp for a better than $500 guitar. 

But I do agree that I will move the ratio towards amp vs guitar (more like $2k / $1k), just not as extreme as you ($3k / $500). But to each his own, eh?


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

That's not actually the values I use personally. I don't really have a formula per se. I have good guitars but I also have good amps. I just don't waste my time with low end or even mid range amps. Been there. Done that. I do have two lower range guitars that have been upgraded. My other guitars are all pro grade. It all boils down to two things; experience and what you're willing to justify.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Limited finances on my part puts the emphasis on the latter of the two things in my case. That and an apartment.



BMW-KTM said:


> That's not actually the values I use personally. I don't really have a formula per se. I have good guitars but I also have good amps. I just don't waste my time with low end or even mid range amps. Been there. Done that. I do have two lower range guitars that have been upgraded. My other guitars are all pro grade. It all boils down to two things; experience *and what you're willing to justify*.


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## whiskeyfingers (Oct 16, 2014)

I'll chime in with my two cents. I think that us Canadians are more honest, therefore making potential Canadian amp builders more fearful of the market. I know I have picked up Canadian made instruments and A/B'd them with overseas made instruments and gave my honest opinion. In somecases, I've liked the mass produced overseas brands and was not ashamed to admit it. (One thing that out weighs my patriotism is my honesty) I feel when an American does this, they are likely to chose the American made product even if it were inferior just because its MADE IN AMERICA! I don't particularly care where my things are made (sweatshops excluded) , as long as they are of quality. Don't get me wrong though, I like to support as many Canadian companies as I can.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

whiskeyfingers said:


> I'll chime in with my two cents. I think that us Canadians are more honest, therefore making potential Canadian amp builders more fearful of the market. I know I have picked up Canadian made instruments and A/B'd them with overseas made instruments and gave my honest opinion. In somecases, I've liked the mass produced overseas brands and was not ashamed to admit it. (One thing that out weighs my patriotism is my honesty) I feel when an American does this, they are likely to chose the American made product even if it were inferior just because its MADE IN AMERICA! I don't particularly care where my things are made (sweatshops excluded) , as long as they are of quality. Don't get me wrong though, I like to support as many Canadian companies as I can.


I like the fact that you're honest - it's very hard to be critical when feelings could be involved, but I'm not sure I agree with the honesty/fear of the market thing. 

There's just as much undeserved praise in these parts as anywhere else. From my experience, we're constantly commending the marginal - whether it be music, our child's grade school drawing, or our neighbour's shoddy landscaping work.

If I had to come up with a reason why there are less builders, I would blame it partially on the non-existent 'Canadian Dream', mashed up with a lack of drive and business know-how, and a feeling of "I'm not good enough".

I wonder if that definitive moment when we find out we're not as great as our parents said we were has anything to do with our lack of motivation/belief in self when it comes to business. Conversely, I wonder if that's why we hear a lot of stories of success coming from hardship.

As a child, I was always told that I have it in me to do well, but my dad could be very hurtful when it came to judging me - maybe he was doing the right thing.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

adcandour said:


> I like the fact that you're honest - it's very hard to be critical when feelings could be involved, but I'm not sure I agree with the honesty/fear of the market thing.
> 
> There's just as much undeserved praise in these parts as anywhere else. From my experience, we're constantly commending the marginal - whether it be music, our child's grade school drawing, or our neighbour's shoddy landscaping work.
> 
> ...


Just wondering what your definition of the "Canadian Dream" is. 
" From my experience, we're constantly commending the marginal - whether it be music, our child's grade school drawing, or our neighbour's shoddy landscaping work." This of course is strictly from your point of view. You would probably think my landscaping work here is way past shoddy and doesn't live up to your standards. So what, it's my house. I like it.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Electraglide said:


> Just wondering what your definition of the "Canadian Dream" is.
> " From my experience, we're constantly commending the marginal - whether it be music, our child's grade school drawing, or our neighbour's shoddy landscaping work." This of course is strictly from your point of view. You would probably think my landscaping work here is way past shoddy and doesn't live up to your standards. So what, it's my house. I like it.


My point is that there really isn't a Canadian Dream. I guess owning as much shit as you can is "a goal" for some...I don't know. I really don't. 

Commending the average is rampant. If you don't see it, I'm not sure what to tell you. 

It's not if you win or lose, it's how you play the game is a saying that a loser created. Winning _is_ important, but so is losing. We need to use this maxim to create better people. Just being there isn't good enough.

Concerning your landscaping - maybe I think it's shoddy (in terms of craftsmanship - I inspect a fair bit in my day-to-day), maybe it's not to my taste (which is irrelevant), but the fact that YOU realize it may be shitty is my point. _You're_ not deluding yourself, because you weren't patted on the back when you didn't deserve it as a child.

Just my opinion...


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

adcandour said:


> My point is that there really isn't a Canadian Dream. I guess owning as much shit as you can is "a goal" for some...I don't know. I really don't.
> 
> Commending the average is rampant. If you don't see it, I'm not sure what to tell you.
> 
> ...


Let's just say our points of view on this are different and leave it at that.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

People commending the average is so commonplace it's concerning. Our standards have dropped so low that when something doesn't suck its heralded as being great when it's really just passable.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

BMW-KTM said:


> Our standards have dropped so low that when something doesn't suck its heralded as being great


This is often the case for music too, especially pop. Found this article on the subject fairly interesting: http://www.vancouversun.com/enterta...+puts+performers+pedestal/11001757/story.html


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

Canadians are like Americans in many ways. Assume there are 5% of guitar players who are nuts about amps and have the funds to buy boutique. Let's say 7% of 35 million Canadians play guitar. 5% of those can afford and will pay for boutique. Works out to 22,000 players. Of those, the average guy buys a boutique amp every 5 years. 4,400 boutique amps per year sold. 1/2 or more are used sales. Is that possible? So 2,250 of so per year new, sold in Canada? I doubt it. 35 million in Canada versus 350 million in the USA. Take all my numbers x 10. Me? Used vintage Fenders. No boutique for me.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

Nothing wrong with good old vintage Fender amps. Except maybe the price. I intend to build a 5E3 clone at some point since a late 50s Deluxe in good shape will fetch more than a used motorcycle and a Victoria or other store bought clone is almost as bad. If that goes well I may try a 6G16.


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## bscott (Mar 3, 2008)

silvertonebetty said:


> 100watt Mesa if you play it at two . I can't get enough of that thing
> 
> proud boogie owner


Dude!!! I blew water through my nose when I read your reply!


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

bscott said:


> Dude!!! I blew water through my nose when I read your reply!


I lol'd too. Your comment here is hilarious. First class.

- - - Updated - - -

Adcandour makes an excellent point about the excess of praise these days. I think its due to the notion that most people today don't believe in absolute truths. 

Back on topic 

Crappy amp crappy tone and good notes. Hmmmm. That can still kick ass. I've been around the block with vintage amps and guitars. I think that it's about having something that can render *your trick *. I mean what you want to hear. 

I've perfoemed with $100 vox VR15 amps to the amazement of many. It's all about the posture of the playing. Heck Joe pass and skunk Baxter play DI to the board.


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## bscott (Mar 3, 2008)

If the mountain won't come north then ya gotta go south. If you are that interested in trying a boutique amp, find a place closest to you and go. You can let the store know you are coming too. You can also let them know that you will be writing about your experience there. Any store owner worth their salt will see to it that your needs are met. Free advertising and a recommendation on this bulletin board with how many members? If you have a great experience at one store then how many people here would go to the same store? After making the effort to travel, I 'em not going to a place that has a crappy rep.


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