# This sums it up nicely. Relic’d Guitars



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

*Hugh Cornwell: “I can’t fathom what the attraction is about a relic guitar. It’s battered and beaten up, and suddenly it’s 10 times the price?”*





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www.guitarworld.com


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Who ever said they're 10x the price?


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Who ever said they're 10x the price?


*Hugh Cornwell *


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Not sure why his opinion matters. He seem to hate a lot of things about guitars in general. He doesn't like heavy guitars, he only likes Fender teles, etc.


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## polyslax (May 15, 2020)

A little too much of the old golden brown, perhaps...


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Chito said:


> Not sure why his opinion matters. He seem to hate a lot of things about guitars in general. He doesn't like heavy guitars, he only likes Fender teles, etc.


There is no positive correlation between being well-informed and being opinionated.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

To all those who don't understand why some of us like relic guitars. I don't understand why you care so much what I like. Why does it cause you to invade every guitar forum to profess your hate for something. I don't understand why you out of your way to tell everyone who will listen how much you hate relic guitars. 
I see girls wearing jeans that have so many holes in it theres almost no pants there. To me it looks like they picked the jeans out of the garbage. But I have never gone out of my way to tell them how much I don't like them.
Personally I like a lightly aged guitar because its a good balance of feel and looks.
I really like heavy aged guitars for feel. They feel like so broken in and the necks are usually heavenly feeling. Unfortunately I'm a little vain and the looks bother me. My personal opinion is the heavier the age, relic is done the harder it is to make it look like real age. But I really appreciate those guitar builders that pull it off.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

I like relic.

I don't understand why there is matter to discuss, it's like having an opinion on strawberries vs chocolate it does not make any sense to me. But someone on internet had a brain fart so here we are...


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## LPmaniac (Jan 14, 2016)

Many people who's not into the whole relic idea think people who buy these guitars are posers.

So what? Aren't we all are at some point? People who buy bicycles for $10k don't race in TDF, people who wear Jordan aren't NBA players. They know it yet they still buy them. Why? Well it makes them feel good and they can afford it. 

Some people don't have the privilege to play guitar for a living, so they buy a relic'd guitar that makes them feel like they do. Nothing wrong with that and I will never judge.


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## xfitxl (May 2, 2018)

guitarman2 said:


> To all those who don't understand why some of us like relic guitars. I don't understand why you care so much what I like. Why does it cause you to invade every guitar forum to profess your hate for something. I don't understand why you out of your way to tell everyone who will listen how much you hate relic guitars.
> I see girls wearing jeans that have so many holes in it theres almost no pants there. To me it looks like they picked the jeans out of the garbage. But I have never gone out of my way to tell them how much I don't like them.
> Personally I like a lightly aged guitar because its a good balance of feel and looks.
> I really like heavy aged guitars for feel. They feel like so broken in and the necks are usually heavenly feeling. Unfortunately I'm a little vain and the looks bother me. My personal opinion is the heavier the age, relic is done the harder it is to make it look like real age. But I really appreciate those guitar builders that pull it off.


yes, and yes and yes… you sir hit it on the nose


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

LPmaniac said:


> Many people who's not into the whole relic idea think people who buy these guitars are posers.
> 
> So what? Aren't we all are at some point? People who buy bicycles for $10k don't race in TDF, people who wear Jordan aren't NBA players. They know it yet they still buy them. Why? Well it makes them feel good and they can afford it.
> 
> Some people don't have the privilege to play guitar for a living, so they buy a relic'd guitar that makes them feel like they do. Nothing wrong with that and I will never judge.


I always get a laugh out of the relic haters saying "A true vintage aged guitar tells a story". I owned a 62 Tele and a 67 Tele back in the mid 1980's. They didn't tell me shit. They were just used slightly beat up guitars.


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## polyslax (May 15, 2020)

I like enough relic to take that new sheen off things, and as mentioned above the necks feel great. I don't mind some heavier relics and there's even a super heavy Tele relic I really like and almost bought.










The loudest, most resonant unplugged electric I've ever heard. Neck is an absolute baseball bat. SD Seth Lover in the neck.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

LPmaniac said:


> Many people who's not into the whole relic idea think people who buy these guitars are* posers.*


I so tire of these spelling errors: it's spelled with an "L"


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## HIDDEN (6 mo ago)

I don’t mind relic guitars


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

LPmaniac said:


> Many people who's not into the whole relic idea think people who buy these guitars are posers.
> 
> So what? Aren't we all are at some point? People who buy bicycles for $10k don't race in TDF, people who wear Jordan aren't NBA players. They know it yet they still buy them. Why? Well it makes them feel good and they can afford it.
> 
> Some people don't have the privilege to play guitar for a living, so they buy a relic'd guitar that makes them feel like they do. Nothing wrong with that and I will never judge.


Maybe MAYBE at one time that would be true. But these days old guitars are collector's items and you don't see them on stage anymore except for the very rich and or famous. They've both rare and expensive. So it's not like you can just go out and get the real thing. And even if you do have the real thing it's not like you're going to take it to the local bar gig.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Listen, I said I was sorry I ever asked. I still have nightmares. I just didn't know!

Now that I have been enlightened I think I'm just gonna go back to talking about politics and racism and shit... much safer diologue


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

LPmaniac said:


> Many people who's not into the whole relic idea think people who buy these guitars are posers.


I'm not someone who has a strong opposition to relics, but that was the purpose when they were introduced. It isn't about "feel" it was just so people wouldn't feel like newbies with their new, pristine guitars. The word "poser" seems a bit harsh though


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Mark Brown said:


> Listen, I said I was sorry I ever asked. I still have nightmares. I just didn't know!
> 
> Now that I have been enlightened I think I'm just gonna go back to talking about politics and racism and shit... much safer diologue


The relicers tend to be a bit sensitive.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Okay Player said:


> The relicers tend to be a bit sensitive.


I will respectfully decline the opportunity to offer an opinion on the subject. I learned my lesson.

There are some really nice relics
There are some really nice shiny guitars
There are some really nice matt finish guitars
There are good people on both sides


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

BlueRocker said:


> I so tire of these spelling errors: it's spelled with an "L"


I must be sluggish today. It took me a minute.


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## paraedolia (Nov 26, 2008)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> And even if you do have the real thing it's not like you're going to take it to the local bar gig.


I played out a couple of weeks ago with a 1964 PBass. I did a theatre tour with a 1962 PBass (with a 72 brought along as backup).😎

But agreed, I don't see what business it is of anyone what someone else buys or uses or the reasons why. If someone doesn't like a relic guitar, they don't have to buy the damn thing. Same if they don't like sunburst or silver sparkle or zoot suit. Don't buy it, and get on with their life.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

I like a relic'd truck myself. Only a poser would drive a shiny one.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm hoping when I die, my wife can sell all my old guitars as "slowly and carefully relic'd" instead of just used.

Maybe she'll get a few more bucks for them.


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## LPmaniac (Jan 14, 2016)

Okay Player said:


> I'm not someone who has a strong opposition to relics, but that was the purpose when they were introduced. It isn't about "feel" it was just so people wouldn't feel like newbies with their new, pristine guitars. The word "poser" seems a bit harsh though


Oh yeah, guitar companies are just like all other companies and they know how to get people to buy their products. That being said some of the relic stuff they do are artfully done and results are quite impressive. Perhaps if they just offered relic as a finish option at the same prices no one would complain.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

My 1974 Dobro is beat up as hell. But that's just a long long heavily-used life. Is it worth more than a shiny one or does this beating up have to be professionally applied?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

LPmaniac said:


> Oh yeah, guitar companies are just like all other companies and they know how to get people to buy their products. That being said some of the relic stuff they do are artfully done and results are quite impressive. Perhaps if they just offered relic as a finish option at the same prices no one would complain.


Would you do work for nothing. Perhaps Tom Murphy and Historic makeovers should just start doing their art for players for free.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

LPmaniac said:


> Oh yeah, guitar companies are just like all other companies and they know how to get people to buy their products. That being said some of the relic stuff they do are artfully done and results are quite impressive. Perhaps if they just offered relic as a finish option at the same prices no one would complain.


As lot of the relics are really good looking guitars. Do they play better than their Fender Re-issue counterparts? Not really, but if people like them better good on them.


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## polyslax (May 15, 2020)

BlueRocker said:


> I so tire of these spelling errors: it's spelled with an "L"


PoLers? Hmmm, ok, I think I see where you're going with this.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

guitarman2 said:


> Would you do work for nothing. Perhaps Tom Murphy and Historic makeovers should just start doing their art for players for free.


I don't think anyone was suggesting that, that being said, if you think the extra cost of a Murphy Lab is accounted for entirely by labor I've got a bridge to sell you.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Okay Player said:


> As lot of the relics are really good looking guitars. Do they play better than their Fender Re-issue counterparts? Not really, but if people like them better good on them.


Lots of people love the way “relic” necks feel. If you’re more comfortable you play better.

ymmv.


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## polyslax (May 15, 2020)

In my personal experience relics feel great, especially the necks, and I like the way they look. Note, I play at home, by myself, in a room without mirrors and typically sitting down, so there's no posing going on, I'm not trying to impress anyone. We all want to pick up and play certain guitars because of the look, feel and sound that inspires us. If you like shiny and new, fantastic, knock yourself out and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

The other thing is that once you reach a certain age (which I have) you can't expect to be around long enough to let your new guitar develop bumps, bruises and scars naturally. I will be fully relic'd myself before that happens.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Oh good, this subject again...


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Budda said:


> Lots of people love the way “relic” necks feel. If you’re more comfortable you play better.
> 
> ymmv.


You're right. Probably why Fender offesr most of their guitars with satin necks.


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## JRtele (Jul 18, 2021)

Some like the relic look, not relic… who cares, I can get along with both kinds of people.

End of the day, it’s nice we can obviously all agree that the real sickos are the people who buy pink guitars.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Okay Player said:


> I don't think anyone was suggesting that, that being said, *if you think the extra cost of a Murphy Lab is accounted for entirely by labor I've got a bridge to sell you.*


I don't think anyone is suggesting that but if you think that at least some of the cost of labor isn't accounted for you should keep that bridge. It may appreciate.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Relic your banjo? Discuss.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

guitarman2 said:


> I don't think anyone is suggesting that but if you think that at least some of the cost of labor isn't accounted for you should keep that bridge. It may appreciate.


I'm sure some of it is. I'm also sure the value of said labor doesn't quadruple the cost of production.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

Who the hell is Hugh Cornwell and why does anyone give a fluck what he thinks?


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

MarkM said:


> Who the hell is Hugh Cornwell and why does anyone give a fluck what he thinks?


Everyone with an internet connection thinks people care what they think. Yes, I see the irony. No, I will not be qualifying the statement.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Okay Player said:


> I'm sure some of it is. I'm also sure the value of said labor doesn't quadruple the cost of production.


Where do you get this quadruple cost from? The Murphy Lab R8 was $500 more than the VOS R8 that I bought. Thats about 7% more.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

guitarman2 said:


> Where do you get this quadruple cost from? The Murphy Lab R8 was $500 more than the VOS R8 that I bought. Thats about 7% more.


Now do the Les Paul Standard...


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Okay Player said:


> Now do the Les Paul Standard...


Show me a Les Paul Standard that comes in an ML finish and I will. Other wise you're in to a different argument.
Of course you could buy a real vintage piece from the 50's if a Fender or from the 30's if a Martin. But is a guitar worth the price of a house. If you got it I aint gonna judge.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Mark Brown said:


> There are good people on both sides


I see what you did there, Brandon.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

I don’t want a relic’d guitar unless I did it by playing, I have some beat up guitars that I have had for almost 40 years. Whatever floats your boat!


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## Permanent Waves (Jun 2, 2020)

I was talking guitars with a coworker who knows nothing about them and he was asking why the older ones were so much more expensive and if they were really better. I talked about different factors like old-growth timber, the wood becoming more resonant as it ages and dries out, how vintage specs can be more desirable, the nostalgia factor and of course, the classic "they are expensive because there are only so many out there and they are not making more!" argument. I then mentioned the trend of charging a premium for making relic'ed instruments that are artificially aged and worn, and he was quite surprised. I mentioned these instruments fetched pretty good prices because the true relics are becoming out of reach for most buyers. He said "Wow, I don't know of any other product they do this to except jeans!" Of course, here is my favourite relic. When I was a kid, I wanted to grow up to be him:


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

guitarman2 said:


> Show me a Les Paul Standard that comes in an ML finish and I will. Other wise you're in to a different argument.


As I said, you're arguing the finish quadruples the price. Even VOS to ML doubles it according to the L&M website.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

MarkM said:


> I don’t want a relic’d guitar unless I did it by playing, I have some beat up guitars that I have had for almost 40 years. Whatever floats your boat!


I'll bet you hate people telling you how much your 70's\80's guitars suck as much as those who like relics get criticized.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Okay Player said:


> As I said, you're arguing the finish quadruples the price. Even VOS to ML doubles it according to the L&M website.


I have no idea what bizzaro world you're getting your figures. Heres a gloss custom shop thats $1,400 more than what I paid for my VOS LP.

Gibson - 1968 Les Paul Custom Reissue Gloss - Ebony


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

jdto said:


> Oh good, this subject again...


Party pooper!


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## Pat James (5 mo ago)

So up until recently, I would have agreed with you, however there is one reason that makes a "factory" reliced guitar worth the price...and that is that when you go to resell it, it won't matter what kind of wear or tear you do to it because it will naturally blend in with the other relicing and will not be considered "bad shape" since the model was reliced when bought new already. So in a way, it is peace of mind knowing that you can play the thing as much as you want and not have to worry about the resale value dropping if it happens to get a few tasteful knicks and dings along the way.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

guitarman2 said:


> I have no idea what bizzaro world you're getting your figures. Heres a gloss custom shop thats $1,400 more than what I paid for my VOS LP.
> 
> Gibson - 1968 Les Paul Custom Reissue Gloss - Ebony


I mean you could save $200 and buy the lefty one, if saving money was a priority over getting what you want.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

guitarman2 said:


> I'll bet you hate people telling you how much your 70's\80's guitars suck as much as those who like relics get criticized.


Just don’t give fluck!


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

MarkM said:


> Just don’t give fluck!


Well now you know how the relic owners feel.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

tomee2 said:


> I mean you could save $200 and buy the lefty one, if saving money was a priority over getting what you want.


I'm not in to saving money above all else. I'm in to getting the one I want, be it relic or otherwise.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

guitarman2 said:


> I'm not in to saving money above all else. I'm in to getting the one I want, be it relic or otherwise.


Exactly. I saw your thread, you got exactly what you wanted.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

I don't like relics so I don't own any relics. Problem solved. I have no right to tell relic people what's a proper guitar just like they have no right to tell me humbuckers don't belong on Strats (which is my thing, everybody's got a thing). Again, problem solved. Why are we still seeing these kinds of posts? What inner need compels people to continue with this line of argument?


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

BMW-KTM said:


> What inner need compels people to continue with this line of argument?


Since the dissolution of the political forum, people direct their annoyances here?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Relic means it was aged at the factory/shop. If it’s natural wear, it’s natural wear.

Who is wary of pristine clean, original frets 70’s guitars?


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

BMW-KTM said:


> What inner need compels people to continue with this line of argument?


Attention


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

> BMW-KTM said:
> Why are we still seeing these kinds of posts? What inner need compels people to continue with this line of argument?


Ask @1SweetRide, he started this. LOL


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## puzz (5 mo ago)

People that can accept a relic'd guitar are just more tolerant and overall better human beings. If it isn't being forced on you, why bother with all the petty hate?


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

Relics remind me of the little league ball player who spent the entire game on the bench but rubbed dirt on his uniform to make it look like he played.  Just, kidding. I'm not a relic fan but it you like them have at it. I'm not even a fan of naturally worn guitars. If I ever win big in the lottery I'm going to buy Stevie Ray's "Number 1" and refinish it just because.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

GuitarT said:


> Relics remind me of the little league ball player who spent the entire game on the bench but rubbed dirt on his uniform to make it look like he played.  Just, kidding. I'm not a relic fan but it you like them have at it. I'm not even a fan of naturally worn guitars. If I ever win big in the lottery I'm going to buy Stevie Ray's "Number 1" and refinish it just because.


I have to like naturally aged guitars, well because a guitar with me for a year will look like its been with me 5 years. When I traded my Les Paul standard in on the R8 the manager was pointing out all the dings and scratches. Was a big ass ding (like really bad) on the back of the headstock and lots of buckle rash. I bought the guitar new 6 months ago. At least he didn't discount it because of the wear. I guess he figures he'll talk someone in to taking it.
And this is probably why I like lightly aged guitar for the most part. Both my custom shop fenders are journeyman relics. The only reason I didn't take the Murphy Lab 58 over the VOS is I didn't like the way the light aged looked and I was kind of scared off all Internet talk of how the Murphy Lab finishes are peeling away unnaturally.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 442721


Huh...I thought that was the weight relief department.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

JRtele said:


> End of the day, it’s nice we can obviously all agree that the real sickos are the people who buy pink guitars.


Oh no! I'm currently building a shell pink relic offset with humbuckers- and a Bigsby. Lol.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

I despise relic guitars they are for posers and lawyers who can afford guitars defending scumbags.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

I also love relic guitars and think to each their own. Whatever floats your boat and motivates ya to keep playing!


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

tdotrob said:


> I despise relic guitars they are for posers and lawyers who can afford guitars defending scumbags.





tdotrob said:


> I also love relic guitars and think to each their own. Whatever floats your boat and motivates ya to keep playing!


You may just be the kind of buyer I'm looking for for my offset pink relic. 😁


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

zztomato said:


> You may just be the kind of buyer I'm looking for for my offset pink relic. 😁


I’ll take it!


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

guitarman2 said:


> I have no idea what bizzaro world you're getting your figures. Heres a gloss custom shop thats $1,400 more than what I paid for my VOS LP.
> 
> Gibson - 1968 Les Paul Custom Reissue Gloss - Ebony


I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> *Hugh Cornwell: “I can’t fathom what the attraction is about a Gibson guitar. It’s overpriced, and I could buy an Epiphone for 10 times less?”*


There, fixed it. Discuss.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

puzz said:


> People that can accept a relic'd guitar are just more tolerant and overall better human beings.


I can accept a relic or two. Absolutely. How many were you planning on giving me?
😉


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## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

tdotrob said:


> I despise relic guitars they are for posers and lawyers who can afford guitars defending scumbags.
> 
> I also love relic guitars and think to each their own. Whatever floats your boat and motivates ya to keep playin’!


Any guitar that defends scumbags AND prevents my watercraft from sinking is fine by me. Shell pink is the icing on the cake.


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## 5150EVH0515 (10 mo ago)

To me strats that are relic'd are so beautiful. Especially olympic white ones. DROOOL


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Not a fan of artificially relic'd guitars, as they usually look, um...artificial. I don't care if you like them or not. Also don't care if you like my opinion. As long as we're not lying about it, that is. 

It is an interesting phenomenon that doesn't exist much outside of the guitar industry, though flooring, furniture, leather, clothing do readily come to mind. Maybe it's the illusion of a favourite old sweater, grandma's house, the songs of our youth...


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Mooh said:


> Not a fan of artificially relic'd guitars, as they usually look, um...artificial. I don't care if you like them or not. Also don't care if you like my opinion. As long as we're not lying about it, that is.
> 
> It is an interesting phenomenon that doesn't exist much outside of the guitar industry, though flooring, furniture, leather, clothing do readily come to mind. Maybe it's the illusion of a favourite old sweater, grandma's house, the songs of our youth...


I'm really hoping it bleeds in to the auto industry. All the money I spend on gear I'll most likely be driving the same vehicle for a while to come. It would be nice to be the cool guy driving a car with honest wear, not like those posers driving vehicles with their factory fake aging.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I'm really hoping it bleeds in to the auto industry. All the money I spend on gear I'll most likely be driving the same vehicle for a while to come. It would be nice to be the cool guy driving a car with honest wear, not like those posers driving vehicles with their factory fake aging.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> View attachment 442786


Yeah now thats what I'm talking about. Fake bullet holes. I'd rather just visit the right neighborhood and get real ones.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Yeah now thats what I'm talking about. Fake bullet holes. I'd rather just visit the right neighborhood and get real ones.



Eagle Place?


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## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

Milkman said:


> Eagle Place?


Boomtown


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

A common point people bring up is "why does anyone care what I play". Most people don't. When you get a discussion forum though, people are going to post about pretty much every guitar related topic even if it's mundane. Some people love to post their opinion in a way that it will rile up others (it's not even all trolling, it's just people with opinions). That's pretty much the definition of a discussion forum. So getting upset about it either way is wasted energy. 

I personally can't believe there's people that still want to start threads about this even taking all that into account. It's become the silliest debate on forums at this point. Some people love relic'd guitars, and relic'd guitars aren't going away. If that upsets you, you might have a bit too much time on your hands.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> A common point people bring up is "why does anyone care what I play". Most people don't. When you get a discussion forum though, people are going to post about pretty much every guitar related topic even if it's mundane. Some people love to post their opinion in a way that it will rile up others (it's not even all trolling, it's just people with opinions). That's pretty much the definition of a discussion forum. So getting upset about it either way is wasted energy.
> 
> I personally can't believe there's people that still want to start threads about this even taking all that into account. It's become the silliest debate on forums at this point. Some people love relic'd guitars, and relic'd guitars aren't going away. If that upsets you, you might have a bit too much time on your hands.


I have a dream. That one day, we'll be able to discuss factory aging on equal terms with pelham blue guitars or flame maple tops...


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I have a dream. That one day, we'll be able to discuss factory aging on equal terms with pelham blue buitars or flame maple tops...


Buitars can be a controversial topic.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Say something once, why say it again?


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Milkman said:


> Say something once, why say it again?


You really want to say something about relic guitars, don't you. You know you wanna so go ahead.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Relic is the finish option. Natural wear is natural wear. Sort yourselves out lol


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Mooh said:


> It is an interesting phenomenon that doesn't exist much outside of the guitar industry, though flooring, furniture, leather, clothing do readily come to mind. Maybe it's the illusion of a favourite old sweater, grandma's house, the songs of our youth...


I can't believe how much better it tastes now with a bit of relish added.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

One important relic feature I've never seen done on purpose à la Murphy, and is one of the most common real life wear and tear, is a broken/repaired headstock. Why is that ?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

BGood said:


> One important relic feature I've never seen done on purpose à la Murphy, and is one of the most common real life wear and tear, is a broken/repaired headstock. Why is that ?


On a les paul if they would actually break it then repair it, I might be in to that. I always hear it said a repaired headstock is stronger than one that has never broke.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> On a les paul if they would actually break it then repair it, I might be in to that. I always hear it said a repaired headstock is stronger than one that has never broke.


I hear Gibson was considering that as a countermeasure to offset the tendency for their headstocks to snap off, but then they realized they would have to cut their selling prices in half as a result of the "improvement".


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I hear Gibson was considering that as a countermeasure to offset the tendency for their headstocks to snap off, but then they realized they would have to cut their selling prices in half as a result of the "improvement".


Again, another reason I might be in to it. Can you imagine the "For sale ads". Advertising "factory repaired headstock" as a spec feature.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Personally, I have no interest in reliced anything. Jeans, houses, cars or guitars. I like my stuff to look well-maintained and cared for. The first scratch always hurts the most.

For those who like a relic because it feels better, can't a good-feeling guitar be accomplished with out it having to look beat up?


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> Personally, I have no interest in reliced anything. Jeans, houses, cars or guitars. I like my stuff to look well-maintained and cared for. The first scratch always hurts the most.
> 
> For those who like a relic because it feels better, can't a good-feeling guitar be accomplished with out it having to look beat up?


Bingo, and yet the rationalization continues.

Like what you like, but it comes down to style and image much more than function.


----------



## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

Derek_T said:


> I don't understand why there is matter to discuss...


Yet, here you are discussing it....


It doesnt matter, but it doesnt have to matter. Many things discussed here dont matter.

The reason to discuss is the same reason you clicked on the tread and replied; Its an interesting topic mostly because its incredibly odd. Electric guitars are the only instruments in the world sold in relic form. This says something very specific about the guitar market. People mistake bewilderment with outrage.



Okay Player said:


> The relicers tend to be a bit sensitive.


This! Tell me you think my DimeSlime Stealth looks stupid and Ill laugh and tell you that your taste is crap. I cant imagine being offended, especially by choices Ive made that are odd to most people. And dont kid your ass guys, regular non guitar players are dumbfounded when you tell them about relics.
Further this trend is literally brand new relatively speaking. People that open these threads to denounce the discussion are the Karens around here, and its lame as hell. Go work on your Cosplay outfits and leave everyone else to discuss it in peace. 😉


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> Personally, I have no interest in reliced anything. *Jeans*, houses, cars or guitars. I like my stuff to look well-maintained and cared for. The first scratch always hurts the most.
> 
> For those who like a relic because it feels better, can't a good-feeling guitar be accomplished with out it having to look beat up?


I remember the days back in the 60's before prewashed jeans was a thing. It was horrible wearing new jeans till atleast after 4 or 5 washes. And guitars like jeans that are VOS, very lightly relic'd, etc can give you some of that immediate comfort. Thats what I like. I don't like beat up looking either. Although those beat up guitars are even more comfortable. Some of us pay to have shiny new and like it. Thats ok. I understand that. I have some friends that are just bonkers over keeping marks off shiny new things. When it comes to guitars I find it stressful to worry about keeping it looking brand new over the long haul. So lightly aged is a way for me to better protect my investment. I'm going to put those bruises and dings on there anyway. When I do it the guitar loses value. When the factory does it I don't.
And the one other consideration. Whenever I try hard not to get something marked up it seems to happen more than when I relax.


----------



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

allthumbs56 said:


> Personally, I have no interest in reliced anything. Jeans, houses, cars or guitars. I like my stuff to look well-maintained and cared for. The first scratch always hurts the most.
> 
> For those who like a relic because it feels better, can't a good-feeling guitar be accomplished with out it having to look beat up?


Shaved or unshaved ? I like the latter better.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> For those who like a relic because it feels better, can't a good-feeling guitar be accomplished with out it having to look beat up?



When I was on the hunt for a strat I tried out the ultra, pro 2 and a couple other of the higher end. Elite I think. Everyone of them had this icky, plasticky feel. Like they're finished in armour plating poly or something. I could not stand the feel. Sorry but for me feel is far more important than looks. I like the way my journeyman relic strat and tele have no gloss sheen. It feels like my arms are laying on wood. The finish has sunken in to the grain allowing the natural wood beauty to show through. And being a journey man relic there is only the odd tiny ding that is impossible to tell from the dings I may have put there. I love it and thats all that matters. Others will love that very shiny new looking plasticky feel and thats all that matters. I do admit though that those shiny guitars look nice in their own right. I prefer the look and feel of woodgrain


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

BGood said:


> Shaved or unshaved ? I like the latter better.


Ummm... manicured?


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Shouldn't you guys get back to bashing Gibson QC, talking about tonewood or how much of an asshole Eric Clapton is? I know, I don't have to read it, but five pages of this drivel?


----------



## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

BlueRocker said:


> Shouldn't you guys get back to bashing Gibson QC, talking about tonewood or how much of an asshole Eric Clapton is? I know, I don't have to read it, but five pages of this drivel?


My favorite part about these threads is watching people get defensive even though nothing derogatory has been said, tbh.


----------



## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

guitarman2 said:


> I'm really hoping it bleeds in to the auto industry. All the money I spend on gear I'll most likely be driving the same vehicle for a while to come. It would be nice to be the cool guy driving a car with honest wear, not like those posers driving vehicles with their factory fake aging.


Is this honest wear, or factory aged? It's debatable...


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

tomee2 said:


> Is this honest wear, or factory aged? It's debatable...
> View attachment 442905


It's a Honda man, definitely factory. Great engines, terrible paint.


----------



## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

BlueRocker said:


> Shouldn't you guys get back to bashing Gibson QC, talking about tonewood or how much of an asshole Eric Clapton is? I know, I don't have to read it, but five pages of this drivel?


 Im not sure how you distinguish this drivel from all the other drivel on here honestly. Most of the threads revolve around pepple asking others their opinions on some new guitar they are lusting after, or showing off said guitar. A lot of it is very inward looking, sort of self centered. I guess that explains why so many people get revved up over this topic. They dont examine the bigger picture but focus on how the discussion effects them personally. 

Again, entering a thread to disparage the discussion is like sitting down univited at a table in a bar and asking the people there why their conversation is so boring. If you're so exiting the "post new thread" button is right there bud.


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Destracted said:


> Im not sure how you distinguish this drivel from all the other drivel on here honestly. Most of the threads revolve around pepple asking others their opinions on some new guitar they are lusting after, or showing off said guitar. A lot of it is very inward looking, sort of self centered.


You mean like these?
NGD Fender Jaguar Baritone Special HH CIJ
NGD Boujee shredder edition. Dean ML Archtop Flame Maple



BlueRocker said:


> Shouldn't you guys get back to *bashing Gibson *QC, talking about tonewood or how much of an asshole Eric Clapton is? I know, I don't have to read it, but five pages of this drivel?


I would have thought you'd take this suggestion and run with it.

How on earth does this make it through QC?
Gibson puts a Dean guitar on a Gibson headstock... lol


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Please stop fighting! This is what my parents were like before the divorce.

On second thought, I did get a guitar out of the deal. Carry on.


----------



## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

BlueRocker said:


> You mean like these?
> NGD Fender Jaguar Baritone Special HH CIJ
> NGD Boujee shredder edition. Dean ML Archtop Flame Maple
> 
> ...


220 posts over a year and you found 2... Way to go Matlock.
You're the one topic policing, not me. Im just pointing out the obvious. Theres a reason this forum is mostly dead with a dozen or so all day posters, like you.


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Destracted said:


> 220 posts over a year and you found 2... Way to go Matlock.
> You're the one topic policing, not me. Im just pointing out the obvious. Theres a reason this forum is mostly dead with a dozen or so all day posters, like you.


You know where the door is


----------



## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

BlueRocker said:


> You know where the door is


So do you. You seem to forget you're the one that entered the thread to disparage the discussion. I am the one that entered it to actually participate. Maybe if I had 4500 posts over 2 years (🤔) Id be a topic policer too but Id rather play guitar than get all bent out of shape over what someone says on a forum about a guitar I like. 

I wouldnt enter a thread where someone was showing off their new relic and crap on it. Thats rude but so is entering a thread made specifically where people are discussing their legitmate opinions and crap on them. Its rude and almost as tacky as relic guitars.


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Destracted said:


> So do you. You seem to forget you're the one that entered the thread to disparage the discussion. I am the one that entered it to actually participate. Maybe if I had 4500 posts over 2 years (🤔) Id be a topic policer too but Id rather play guitar than get all bent out of shape over what someone says on a forum about a guitar I like.
> 
> I wouldnt enter a thread where someone was showing off their new relic and crap on it. Thats rude but so is entering a thread made specifically where people are discussing their legitmate opinions and crap on them. Its rude and almost as tacky as relic guitars.


yawn


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Destracted said:


> So do you. You seem to forget you're the one that entered the thread to disparage the discussion. I am the one that entered it to actually participate. Maybe if I had 4500 posts over 2 years (🤔) Id be a topic policer too but Id rather play guitar than get all bent out of shape over what someone says on a forum about a guitar I like.
> 
> I wouldnt enter a thread where someone was showing off their new relic and crap on it. Thats rude but so is entering a thread made specifically where people are discussing their legitmate opinions and crap on them. Its rude and almost as tacky as relic guitars.


You're on a roll getting your post count up now.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Destracted said:


> So do you. You seem to forget you're the one that entered the thread to disparage the discussion. I am the one that entered it to actually participate. Maybe if I had 4500 posts over 2 years (🤔) Id be a topic policer too but Id rather play guitar than get all bent out of shape over what someone says on a forum about a guitar I like.
> 
> I wouldnt enter a thread where someone was showing off their new relic and crap on it. Thats rude but so is entering a thread made specifically where people are discussing their legitmate opinions and crap on them. Its rude and almost as tacky as relic guitars.


Ya you just shit on people for having high post counts. Much better. These were the only people keeping the forum active at various points. Are you going to make fun of my post count as well? Tell me I have no life?


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

torndownunit said:


> Are you going to make fun of my post count as well? Tell me I have no life?


Given my post count, I absolutely don't have a life.


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

greco said:


> Given my post count, I absolutely don't have a life.


You can have mine, I know it's around here somewhere


----------



## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

greco said:


> Given my post count, I absolutely don't have a life.


Can't beat the entertainment, though.


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I come for the Guitars, I stay for the attitude.

We all know I have no life, just look at those posts. I even have my own less than special designation. It isnt something I am proud of but what can ya do.


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

torndownunit said:


> Ya you just shit on people for having high post counts. Much better. These were the only people keeping the forum active at various points. Are you going to make fun of my post count as well? Tell me I have no life?


Not to mention beyond keeping the forum going, there are several (many?) who in addition to their amazing Photoshop abilities contribute a great deal of useful technical information to the rest of us great unwashed. @Paul Running - gets my salute!


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

I've been suspended a few times, slagged some members, been slagged myself, posted offensive stuff, probably on a few ignore lists too.
For some reason though, you people must enjoy it.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Destracted said:


> So do you. You seem to forget you're the one that entered the thread to disparage the discussion. I am the one that entered it to actually participate. Maybe if I had 4500 posts over 2 years (🤔) Id be a topic policer too but Id rather play guitar than get all bent out of shape over what someone says on a forum about a guitar I like.
> 
> I wouldnt enter a thread where someone was showing off their new relic and crap on it. Thats rude but so is entering a thread made specifically where people are discussing their legitmate opinions and crap on them. Its rude and almost as tacky as relic guitars.


I'm just noticing the post counts. I see mine at just over 8k since 2006 then I notice others at double mine that have been here same amount of time or less. wow. I thought I posted a lot. Oh well nothing wrong with supporting the forum.


----------



## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

torndownunit said:


> Ya you just shit on people for having high post counts. Much better. These were the only people keeping the forum active at various points. Are you going to make fun of my post count as well? Tell me I have no life?


If you think that "🤔" is shitting on someone then sure... As far as telling you that you "have no life"?... Well, since Ive not done that anywhere here I'll chalk that up to a little voice in your head, but its not mine.

Im not going to go all Matlock like Blueballs but I will say this one last time. If you enter a thread with the sole purpose to troll the people in it you might be the @sshole.


----------



## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

BlueRocker said:


> yawn


I'll do you one better. Ignore


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Yep. "This sums it up nicely."


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Can one ignore oneself ?


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

BGood said:


> Can one ignore oneself ?


I'm on and off my own ignore list all the time.

I'm seriously considering just going my separate ways.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Destracted said:


> If you enter a thread with the sole purpose to troll the people in it you might be the @sshole.


Hmmm, I think I would whole heartedly agree with you. Let us take a good look at your first post in this thread....



Destracted said:


> Yet, here you are discussing it....
> 
> 
> It doesnt matter, but it doesnt have to matter. Many things discussed here dont matter.
> ...


Yeah I would have to say that looks like, how did you put it an @sshole?


----------



## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

Mark Brown said:


> Hmmm, I think I would whole heartedly agree with you. Let us take a good look at your first post in this thread....
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I would have to say that looks like, how did you put it an @sshole?


Thats not trolling. Its a well reasoned explanation but sure..


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Destracted said:


> If you think that "🤔" is shitting on someone then sure... As far as telling you that you "have no life"?... Well, since Ive not done that anywhere here I'll chalk that up to a little voice in your head, but its not mine.
> 
> Im not going to go all Matlock like Blueballs but I will say this one last time. If you enter a thread with the sole purpose to troll the people in it you might be the @sshole.


Ya it's definitely not the way you are talking down to people that could be the problem at all. It's clearly others that are the problem and the voices in their heads.


----------



## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Destracted said:


> Further this trend is literally brand new relatively speaking. People that open these threads to denounce the discussion are the Karens around here, and its lame as hell. Go work on your Cosplay outfits and leave everyone else to discuss it in peace. 😉


Totally reasoned and appropriate response, you're right. My sincere apologies.


----------



## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Destracted said:


> I'll do you one better. Ignore


Join the club. I'm waiting until I watch you self destruct before I hit the button.


----------



## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I seem to be immune to 'relicing' my own stuff. My modern looking car is over 30 years old, looks brand new even after many years of tracking it. Just last year I was approached by a dude asking where he could buy my car new at a dealership (I had to point to the pop-up lights to make my point).

I sold my '86 Ibanez RS-140 last year. Other than a slight white to off-white paint fade, not a scratch on it even though it's seen tons of stage and heavy studio action as has my Marshall combo - also new looking.

Guess I just know how to take care of my stuff (damnit).


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Relic guitars were a precursor to fake news. People like to pretend what they are not and are willing to pay extra to make it look that way.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Relic guitars were a precursor to fake news. People like to pretend what they are not and are willing to pay extra to make it look that way.


I hear you bud. You like to pretend you know what you're talking about. And this is an observation over far more discussions than this.


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## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

Mark Brown said:


> Totally reasoned and appropriate response, you're right. My sincere apologies.


I appreciate that Karen. Thanks.


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## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

"Further this trend is literally brand new relatively speaking." 
Not really. IMO, it's an iteration of the Japanese concept of _wabi sabi_, hundreds of years old in practical terms, which was adopted within the Western creative tradition in the first half of the 20th century.


----------



## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

Hammertone said:


> "Further this trend is literally brand new relatively speaking."
> Not really. IMO, it's an iteration of the Japanese concept of _wabi sabi_, hundreds of years old in practical terms, which was adopted within the Western creative tradition in the first half of the 20th century.


Interesting. I've never heard of that but a quick google search seems to paint a different picture of minimalism rather than say distressing high end technology to look well used.
_
In one sense wabi-sabi is a training whereby the student of wabi-sabi learns to find the most basic, natural objects interesting, fascinating and beautiful._


----------



## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

torndownunit said:


> Ya it's definitely not the way you are talking down to people that could be the problem at all. It's clearly others that are the problem and the voices in their heads.


This thread was clearly created with the intent to critically discuss relic guitars. Why is that necessary? Because there are plenty of threads where everyone can discuss how awesome relics are. If someone enters one of them to give their honest opinion the threads derails and they get attacked and rightfully so. We have all seen this here, lots...
However, the same goes the other way around and thats what many guys seem to be missing here. If you scrolled this thread just to get offended or look for people to argue with because their opinion is different than yours then thats on you, not me.


----------



## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

Destracted said:


> Interesting. I've never heard of that but a quick google search seems to paint a different picture of minimalism rather than say distressing high end technology to look well used.
> _In one sense wabi-sabi is a training whereby the student of wabi-sabi learns to find the most basic, natural objects interesting, fascinating and beautiful._


_Wabi sabi_ has evolved considerably in terms of its meaning, and encompasses concepts of authentic, visible wear. It's about the inevitability of age, wear, and the futility of perfection. I think reliced objects, including guitars, are well within the ken of _wabi sabi_.


----------



## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

Hammertone said:


> _Wabi sabi_ has evolved considerably in terms of its meaning, and encompasses concepts of authentic, visible wear. It's about the inevitability of age, wear, and the futility of perfection. I think reliced objects, including guitars, are well within the ken of _wabi sabi_.


Fair enough. So why are electric guitars the only instrument influenced by this? Why not acoustic guitars, which by their nature are more minimalist. What happened a decade ago or so to trigger it all of a sudden?

From my memory the first relic I ever saw was a Joe Strummer Tele about 15 years ago at L&M. The relic looked almost painted on. More like a movie prop then a vintage guitar. It seems to me that what we have today is just an evolution of that. I think it went from guys wanting famous guitar copies like the SRV strat and the Strummer tele and evolved in to buyers wanting instruments that were generally vintage looking (and playing) because thats what most famous guitarists play.


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## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

Relicing has happened to acoustic guitars in the past few years from a variety of makers. Mostly high-end stuff.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Destracted said:


> This thread was clearly created with the intent to critically discuss relic guitars. Why is that necessary? Because there are plenty of threads where everyone can discuss how awesome relics are. If someone enters one of them to give their honest opinion the threads derails and they get attacked and rightfully so. We have all seen this here, lots... However, the same goes the other way around and thats what many guys seem to be missing here. If you scrolled this thread just to get offended or look for people to argue with because their opinion is different than yours then thats on you, not me.





Destracted said:


> This thread was clearly created with the intent to critically discuss relic guitars. Why is that necessary? Because there are plenty of threads where everyone can discuss how awesome relics are. If someone enters one of them to give their honest opinion the threads derails and they get attacked and rightfully so. We have all seen this here, lots... _*However, the same goes the other way around and thats what many guys seem to be missing here. If you scrolled this thread just to get offended or look for people to argue with because their opinion is different than yours then thats on you, not me.*_


That sounds pretty argumentative to me.


----------



## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

Steadfastly said:


> That sounds pretty argumentative to me.


You say argumentative, I say healthy debate. The problem is youre not allowed to debate anything other than your favorite colour Les Paul here.
Even if it is argumentative, are divergant opinions and systematic reasoning a bad thing to you? Would it be better if we all cloned the opinions of the half dozen guys that gatekeep this board and decide what topics are allowed to be discussed?



*ar·gu·men·ta·tive*
/ˌärɡyəˈmen(t)ədiv/

_adjective_

1.
_given to expressing divergent or opposite opinions._
2.
_using or characterized by systematic reasoning._
"the highest standards of argumentative rigor"


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Name change coming next week: 
Gear Page Canada


----------



## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

Hammertone said:


> Relicing has happened to acoustic guitars in the past few years from a variety of makers. Mostly high-end stuff.


Sure, but I would have thought it would have started there. 
I did a bit of research on relics. It looks pretty close to my assumptions as far as to how it all got started. Professional Artists requested it first based on how it looked on stage, then it trickled down to standard production.

_One day of that time Jay saw the musician Don Was in his studio, where they recorded the Rolling Stones at that time. Don had to go to the Grammys and he had a new bass that he asked the Fender Custom Shop to age for a vintage bass look. Starting with that bass, Fender gave its artists the option of giving an aging treatment to their instruments but did not treat it as a standard finish for their guitars._





__





Loading…






nitorlack.com


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

So what does everyone think of relic’d guitars? Yay or nay?


----------



## polyslax (May 15, 2020)

Destracted said:


> You say argumentative, I say healthy debate. The problem is youre not allowed to debate anything other than your favorite colour Les Paul here.
> Even if it is argumentative, are divergant opinions and systematic reasoning a bad thing to you? Would it be better if we all cloned the opinions of the half dozen guys that gatekeep this board and decide what topics are allowed to be discussed?


Sign, sign, everywhere a sign...

You clearly want to make a point. What is it, exactly? From what I can gather you have this theory that electric guitar relicing is unique among musical instruments and had its genesis in the Joe Strummer Tele... good so far? Now, I guess the other part of your theory is that interest in relics is born out of a desire that players have to emulate the rigs, the style and the swagger of their guitar heroes? Is there more to it or is that the gist of what you want to say?

I don't see much to argue about in those points. I mean, speaking personally I was never trying to emulate any particular guitar player, but I certainly appreciated the vintage appearance. Yes, I understand it's just an appearance. It's not a guitar that has been to hell and back, it just looks that way. Is it the superficial nature of this that bothers you? You just want relic players to admit that they're shallow? Well, appearance drives many or most purchases of just about anything. Whether it's something you want to be shiny, beat up, a particular colour, covered in camouflage, sparkles or carved dragons, we all have different tastes but the appearance we seek is something that appeals to us, personally.

Is there something I'm missing?


----------



## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

FatStrat2 said:


> I seem to be immune to 'relicing' my own stuff. My modern looking car is over 30 years old, looks brand new even after many years of tracking it. Just last year I was approached by a dude asking where he could buy my car new at a dealership (I had to point to the pop-up lights to make my point).
> 
> I sold my '86 Ibanez RS-140 last year. Other than a slight white to off-white paint fade, not a scratch on it even though it's seen tons of stage and heavy studio action as has my Marshall combo - also new looking.
> 
> Guess I just know how to take care of my stuff (damnit).


I'm the same. My #1 Strat has seen a lot of use both at home and outside the house (jams, gigs etc) for the last 28 years. It's had the frets cleaned up once but they're still original. It has finish wear on the edges of the maple fretboard and a couple of very minor dings in the body but other than that it looks like new. I imagine being a poly finish has a lot to do with it.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Hammertone said:


> Relicing has happened to acoustic guitars in the past few years from a variety of makers. Mostly high-end stuff.


I got a chance about a year ago to play a Martin D-18 Authentic 1939 aged version at Lauzons in Ottawa. My gawd that guitar was just beautiful. The tone coming out of that was dramatically more resonant than my non aged version. And the sustain just lasted forever. Not sure how much the aging has to do with it but according to the guys on the Martin forum the aged version has a much thinner finish making a difference. The looks were pretty good. It did look like an old guitar with out to much unnecessary damage. If I didn't already have the non aged version I would have bought it. My 2013 D-18 authentic 39 actually has more wear and dings from my 6 years of ownership. When I bought it used it was 3 years old and was as mint as a brand new guitar.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

tdotrob said:


> So what does everyone think of relic’d guitars? Yay or nay?


"Yay" I'm all for choice, whether I like it or not.
I like fake age but only light age. Just enough to make it feel comfortable but not look like it was dragged behind a pickup truck for 100 miles. But I don't criticize anyone for liking heavy relics. I owned a Masterbuilt Nocaster heavy relic and I can understand those that like them. It was the most comfortable feeling guitar I ever owned. Some like them shiny some like them worn. Biggest divide in the guitar world that seems to start civil wars.


----------



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

tomee2 said:


> Name change coming next week:
> Gear Page Canada


Guns, God, and Gibsons.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I'm on and off my own ignore list all the time.
> 
> I'm seriously considering just going my separate ways.


One of you should stay


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

body wraps to relic your car.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> One of you should stay



Sometimes all I have is each other.


----------



## MetalTele79 (Jul 20, 2020)

I don't mind relics at all and think some of them look great. I also don't mind buying a guitar with some honest wear/ding/scratches/missing chunks if I like the guitar. 

I'm not a fan of ones that don't make any sense to me like when they have a steady amount of wear around the entire edge of the body.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> Relic guitars were a precursor to fake news. People like to pretend what they are not and are willing to pay extra to make it look that way.


This is the problem with every "discussion" about relic guitars; passing judgment on the player/owner.

Like or don't like aged/relic guitars. Don't insult others based on their personal choices.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Say something once, why say it again?


If something gets said enough times it becomes fact.


----------



## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

guitarman2 said:


> "Yay" I'm all for choice, whether I like it or not.
> I like fake age but only light age. Just enough to make it feel comfortable but not look like it was dragged behind a pickup truck for 100 miles. But I don't criticize anyone for liking heavy relics. I owned a Masterbuilt Nocaster heavy relic and I can understand those that like them. It was the most comfortable feeling guitar I ever owned. Some like them shiny some like them worn. Biggest divide in the guitar world that seems to start civil wars.


From your posts about your new R8, you gig your guitars so your "fake age" quickly turns into real aging, which I think (and that's just my opinon) is exactly what a nice relic guitar is good for. 

Hanging on a staircase as decoration, maybe not so much.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

tomee2 said:


> From your posts about your new R8, you gig your guitars so your "fake age" quickly turns into real aging, which I think (and that's just my opinon) is exactly what a nice relic guitar is good for.
> 
> Hanging on a staircase as decoration, maybe not so much.


Real aging happens around my house. I have a habit, once I strap a guitar on at home I don't take it off till bed time. I take a leak, a crap, walk hap hazardly through door ways (I'm super paranoid about my Les Paul headstock through doorways) and I'm not the most careful. Both my Martin acoustics look a little more aged than my journeyman relics and they were both mint when I got them 6 years ago.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

guitarman2 said:


> Real aging happens around my house. I have a habit, once I strap a guitar on at home I don't take it off till bed time. I take a leak, a crap, walk hap hazardly through door ways (I'm super paranoid about my Les Paul headstock through doorways) and I'm not the most careful. Both my Martin acoustics look a little more aged than my journeyman relics and they were both mint when I got them 6 years ago.


Thats awesome!

Never put it down.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

BMW-KTM said:


> I don't like relics so I don't own any relics. Problem solved. I have no right to tell relic people what's a proper guitar just like they have no right to tell me humbuckers don't belong on Strats (which is my thing, everybody's got a thing). Again, problem solved. Why are we still seeing these kinds of posts? What inner need compels people to continue with this line of argument?


He's got an opinion. He's entitled to share it. Whether you agree with him is your right too. No need to tell people they can't say what they feel in a subject as innocuous as this one. Though I wouldn't be willing to pay a premium for a relic'd guitar, I'd not be adverse to owning one.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Chito said:


> Ask @1SweetRide, he started this. LOL


Sheesh, I go away for a few days and found this post has blown up. I didn't expect that lol. Anyway, I think peeps should be less annoyed, there's some funny material in here!


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## MetalTele79 (Jul 20, 2020)

guitarman2 said:


> Real aging happens around my house. I have a habit, once I strap a guitar on at home I don't take it off till bed time. I take a leak, a crap, walk hap hazardly through door ways (I'm super paranoid about my Les Paul headstock through doorways) and I'm not the most careful. Both my Martin acoustics look a little more aged than my journeyman relics and they were both mint when I got them 6 years ago.


Kijiji buyer: "how did the guitar get this big scratch?"
guitarman2: "That one happened while I was taking a big dump"


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

MetalTele79 said:


> Kijiji buyer: "how did the guitar get this big scratch?"
> guitarman2: "That one happened while I was taking a big dump"


True story.


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## polyslax (May 15, 2020)

guitarman2 said:


> Real aging happens around my house. I have a habit, once I strap a guitar on at home I don't take it off till bed time. I take a leak, a crap...


LOL I don't even want to know the mechanics of how this works! It's no wonder you prefer a lighter LP.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

polyslax said:


> LOL I don't even want to know the mechanics of how this works! It's no wonder you prefer a lighter LP.


I haven't sat on the crapper with the LP yet. For some reason I'm more cautious with that guitar. Its the guitar I've spent the most money on, just a few dollars more than my Martin Authentic D-28 (which would have been the most expensive had I bought it in Canada)
If I have to go I take off the LP and strap on a Fender.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> If something gets said enough times it becomes fact.



Well, sort of.

I'd say that when people repeat their lies often enough they start to believe them.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Well, sort of.
> 
> I'd say that when people repeat their lies often enough they start to believe them.


And thats fine. Its when just about everybody starts believing it.


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## polyslax (May 15, 2020)

guitarman2 said:


> If I have to go I take off the LP and strap on a Fender.


Seems the logical choice!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)




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## Skynyrds Innyrds (5 mo ago)

guitarman2 said:


> To all those who don't understand why some of us like relic guitars. I don't understand why you care so much what I like. Why does it cause you to invade every guitar forum to profess your hate for something. I don't understand why you out of your way to tell everyone who will listen how much you hate relic guitars.
> I see girls wearing jeans that have so many holes in it theres almost no pants there. To me it looks like they picked the jeans out of the garbage. But I have never gone out of my way to tell them how much I don't like them.
> Personally I like a lightly aged guitar because its a good balance of feel and looks.
> I really like heavy aged guitars for feel. They feel like so broken in and the necks are usually heavenly feeling. Unfortunately I'm a little vain and the looks bother me. My personal opinion is the heavier the age, relic is done the harder it is to make it look like real age. But I really appreciate those guitar builders that pull it off.


People don't like them for the same reason that '80s metal heads didn't like Bon Jovi when they hit, or why traditional country fans don't like Bro Country - because, like them, relic'd guitars are all about image so it is the poser aspect that people dislike.

And they talk about it on forums because that is why forums exist - for discussion, the expression of opinions, etc.


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## polyslax (May 15, 2020)

Skynyrds Innyrds said:


> People don't like them for the same reason that '80s metal heads didn't like Bon Jovi when they hit, or why traditional country fans don't like Bro Country - because, like them, relic'd guitars are all about image so it is the poser aspect that people dislike.
> 
> And they talk about it on forums because that is why forums exist - for discussion, the expression of opinions, etc.


Thank you for expressing your opinion!

Hey, I'm getting good at this non-escalation stuff.


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## Skynyrds Innyrds (5 mo ago)

BlueRocker said:


> I so tire of these spelling errors: it's spelled with an "L"


polers?

Yeah, I guess those who like relic'd guitars might also like the pole.......................


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I don't really give a rat's a$$ if people like relics, but I just find it funny that so many can't admit it's mostly about the appearance.

If it's a matter of comfort, or a "broken in" feel, those elements can all be achieved without the illusion of antiquity.

I won't insult anyone with shitty terms like poser or wannabe. Many players who can play circles around me enjoy them.

But, like it or not, to many people, myself included, there's an element of "fake" that keeps relics off of our list of wants.


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## Skynyrds Innyrds (5 mo ago)

Pat James said:


> So up until recently, I would have agreed with you, however there is one reason that makes a "factory" reliced guitar worth the price...and that is that when you go to resell it, it won't matter what kind of wear or tear you do to it because it will naturally blend in with the other relicing and will not be considered "bad shape" since the model was reliced when bought new already. So in a way, it is peace of mind knowing that you can play the thing as much as you want and not have to worry about the resale value dropping if it happens to get a few tasteful knicks and dings along the way.


That is an excellent point.


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## Skynyrds Innyrds (5 mo ago)

BGood said:


> Shaved or unshaved ? I like the latter better.


It ain't the '70s any more.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Milkman said:


> I'd say that when people repeat their lies often enough they start to believe them.


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## polyslax (May 15, 2020)

Milkman said:


> I don't really give a rat's a$$ if people like relics, but I just find it funny that so many can't admit it's mostly about the appearance.


I find it absolutely amazing that anyone could be bothered by this!

I do appreciate you sharing your opinion though.


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## Skynyrds Innyrds (5 mo ago)

guitarman2 said:


> If something gets said enough times it becomes fact.


Catherine McKenna taught us that.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I don't really give a rat's a$$ if people like relics, but I just find it funny that so many can't admit it's mostly about the appearance.


I've seen you post "I don't understand relics", yet now you claim to understand the motive behind players that like them. And so what if its for the looks. Theres some guitars I can't stand the looks of but I've never once posted or participated in a post that criticized them.
Years ago I did express a dislike for fake aged guitars. I never got in to the personal insults of players integrity for liking them but I did talk about not liking them. Then I played a bunch. Then I owned one. Then I could understand. Most who criticize them have no idea why someone might be drawn to them, yet they criticize anyway. Yes the Heavy relic tele I owned was an ugly mother but it felt fantastic to play. I still kind of kick my self for selling it but I was only going to own one really expensive tele so I sold it in favor of a journey man relic that balanced good feel with presentable looks. Basically a guitar that looks a few years old with out dings and finish wearing off. That probably makes me more of a poser just in the fact that I put more emphasis on looks than I did the amazing feel and playability the ugly muther had. I made the same decision with my recent Les Paul purchase. Came down to 2 a VOS and a Murphy Lab. I took the VOS clearly on the finish not having cracks, dings, etc. It looked like a new guitar. Of course everything else was fairly equal, except the neck on the ML was a bit more comfortable.
These are just my preferences. No need to go in to a "Murphy Lab" discussion calling them all Posers.
It is a joy to rub my hands over the body of my strat and tele and feel raised wood grain where the finish has sunk in and I feel wood. Not the thick plastic feeling coating on those $3,000 shiny strat\tele elites.


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## Skynyrds Innyrds (5 mo ago)

guitarman2 said:


> I haven't sat on the crapper with the LP yet. For some reason I'm more cautious with that guitar. Its the guitar I've spent the most money on, just a few dollars more than my Martin Authentic D-28 (which would have been the most expensive had I bought it in Canada)
> If I have to go I take off the LP and strap on a Fender.



Well Strats are shit...............


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

polyslax said:


> I find it absolutely amazing that anyone could be bothered by this!
> 
> I do appreciate you sharing your opinion though.



I find it strange that finding something "funny" can be somehow interpreted as "bothered".

You're welcome though.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I've seen you post "I don't understand relics", yet now you claim to understand the motive behind players that like them. And so what if its for the looks. Theres some guitars I can't stand the looks of but I've never once posted or participated in a post that criticized them.
> Years ago I did express a dislike for fake aged guitars. I never got in to the personal insults of players integrity for liking them but I did talk about not liking them. Then I played a bunch. Then I owned one. Then I could understand. Most who criticize them have no idea why someone might be drawn to them, yet they criticize anyway. Yes the Heavy relic tele I owned was an ugly mother but it felt fantastic to play. I still kind of kick my self for selling it but I was only going to own one really expensive tele so I sold it in favor of a journey man relic that balanced good feel with presentable looks. Basically a guitar that looks a few years old with out dings and finish wearing off. That probably makes me more of a poser just in the fact that I put more emphasis on looks than I did the amazing feel and playability the ugly muther had. I made the same decision with my recent Les Paul purchase. Came down to 2 a VOS and a Murphy Lab. I took the VOS clearly on the finish not having cracks, dings, etc. It looked like a new guitar. Of course everything else was fairly equal, except the neck on the ML was a bit more comfortable.
> These are just my preferences. No need to go in to a "Murphy Lab" discussion calling them all Posers.
> It is a joy to rub my hands over the body of my strat and tele and feel raised wood grain where the finish has sunk in and I feel wood. Not the thick plastic feeling coating on those $3,000 shiny strat\tele elites.


LMAO.

I still don't understand why someone would want one, but the standard explanation is that they feel so much better. Some even claim they sound better.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I find it strange that finding something "funny" can be somehow interpreted as "bothered".
> 
> You're welcome though.


Well than do clarify the meaning behind your use of the word "funny". "Funny, haha", "funny you're a fool", etc


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> LMAO.
> 
> I still don't understand why someone would want one, but the standard explanation is that they feel so much better. Some even claim they sound better.


The 2 les pauls I compared side by side extensively, one aged, one not, one didn't sound better than the other. A bit different but there are a myriad of reasons why that would be. I definitely picked the non aged. So in some cases I'm with you and sometimes I'm not. I feel a pretty guitar like a les paul looks better not aged, purely my opinion. Fenders kind of look right with a bit of age. Certainly feel right.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Well than do clarify the meaning behind your use of the word "funny". "Funny, haha", "funny you're a fool", etc


I think you meant “then”.

I’ll try to be more clear.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

All I know is that if I kick the bucket tomorrow Maggs will be selling the "beat-up looking guitars" for a lot less than the "pretty ones" 😖


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## polyslax (May 15, 2020)

Milkman said:


> I find it strange that finding something "funny" can be somehow interpreted as "bothered".
> 
> You're welcome though.


Oh, ok, you literally find it "funny" that people can't admit relics are about appearance. Gotcha.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

polyslax said:


> Oh, ok, you literally find it "funny" that people can't admit relics are about appearance. Gotcha.


It cracks him up.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

This is the thread that just keeps on giving. You guys are awesome, keep up the good work


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> It cracks him up.


Indeed. Lots of other image affectations make me laugh as well.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

polyslax said:


> Oh, ok, you literally find it "funny" that people can't admit relics are about appearance. Gotcha.



Are you saying that there are functional elements of relic'ing a guitar that cannot be achieved without making it look artificially old?

I can't deny that there are some who are highly skilled at creating that appearance but is it driven by the desire to have a better feeling or sounding instrument or just a choice in finishes?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Are you saying that there are functional elements of relic'ing a guitar that cannot be achieved without making it look artificially old?
> 
> I can't deny that there are some who are highly skilled at creating that appearance but is it driven by the desire to have a better feeling or sounding instrument or just a choice in finishes?


As for "better sounding" whether an aged job makes a guitar better sounding or not is subjective, just like everything else that's claimed to affect tone. The experts over at the Martin guitar forum are convinced it makes a difference on the aged Martin Authentics and the aged guitars made by the "Prewar" company. I've only ever played one Martin aged and it was fantastic. And I own the non aged version of the same guitar for comparison. But there are so many other things that affect tone.
Better feeling: This is something you'd have to gain experience with. Play a few. You might like it, you might not. I love it for feel. 
Finish preference: It certainly is a finish preference. There are usually 3 main levels. Light aged - medium - Heavy. I mostly see a light age or heavy. I prefer light for looks but for maximum feel nothing beats a heavy. 
Then of course theres VOS (Gibson) or NOS (Fender) I like the VOS on my Les Paul. Basically a finish that looks like a brand new guitar but doesn't shine like a gloss. I hate high gloss shiny guitars for looks and feel. 
Some have reported light aging on the hardware of their VOS Gibson's but I don't see any on mine. They just don't shine.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

guitarman2 said:


> If I have to go I take off the LP and strap on a Fender.


Oh great, we’re talking about strap ons now.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

1SweetRide said:


> Oh great, we’re talking about strap ons now.


Need to age the leather on the straps. Don't want to look like a newb at your next orgy, and with the ball gag it's hard to explain yourself.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Any guitar you choose is going to be partly about its appearance. 
I'm going to play this tele tonight and be a f'n poser.


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## MetalTele79 (Jul 20, 2020)

Ageing something is not unique to guitars either. People have been doing it with watches for a while now. People will force the development of natural patina on bronze so it will look older than it is.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

MetalTele79 said:


> Ageing something is not unique to guitars either. People have been doing it with watches for a while now. People will force the development of natural patina on bronze so it will look older than it is.


I was wondering when someone might bring this up. Think I saw an Instagram post where someone even tried to age their sneakers by soaking them in coffee. Wasn't a good look.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm actually only 23.

I'm just a heavy relic.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

is that IQ?


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

MetalTele79 said:


> Ageing something is not unique to guitars either. People have been doing it with watches for a while now. People will force the development of natural patina on bronze so it will look older than it is.


It's a big thing in the knife world now too. People blend up all kinds of concoctions to force an aged patina lool on carbon steel blades.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

I bought a 14 year old Les Paul Studio that was clearly played a lot by a smoker or someone with dirty hands as it's s bit yellowed near the pickups and the gold hardware is pretty weathered looking. So real aging.

I've had it 4 months... am I a poser/loser for having if? I could've bought a shiny new Epiphone for same money, but a similar new Studio was double.











But seriously, who cares 🙄


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

zztomato said:


> This is the problem with every "discussion" about relic guitars; passing judgment on the player/owner.
> 
> Like or don't like aged/relic guitars. Don't insult others based on their personal choices.


No judgement passing here; just stating the obvious.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Destracted said:


> You say argumentative, I say healthy debate. The problem is youre not allowed to debate anything other than your favorite colour Les Paul here.
> Even if it is argumentative, are divergant opinions and systematic reasoning a bad thing to you? Would it be better if we all cloned the opinions of the half dozen guys that gatekeep this board and decide what topics are allowed to be discussed?
> 
> 
> ...


It is best to give the full meaning of a word. Here is what argumentative can also mean. Keep in mind my original post included a smiley face so I don't think we should argue any longer.  

Is argumentative positive or negative?


*argument may be positive or negative* (it's good to offer a good argument for your point of view), but argumentative is always a personality flaw in that it describes a bickering manner.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Would steam-punking be considered a form of relicing? I do enjoy looking at some of those steam-punked guitars.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

This thread is something else.

Of COURSE it's about appearance. But isn't everything? Finish (poly or nitro), colour, matte or gloss, body shape, headstock shape, chrome/nickel/gold/black hardware, pickguard...

So relic, like anything, is a finish option. And it's not always as simple as saying, "I like relics" or "I hate relics". They all look very different. For me, I don't care for a lot of them I see. Not sure why, but something about the wear pattern or whatever can turn me off. However they're not offensive so I just shrug and move on. This year I did find a couple of guitars that caught my eye for some reason. They're both relics but in my opinion tastefully done and restrained. I bought both of them and they're easily my top instruments I reach for now.

At the end of the day, guitar manufacturers are going to produce products that sell. OBVIOUSLY there's a huge market out there for these finishes as Fender's Custom Shop has been doing it for 30 years and in the late 00's they even expanded it to the production lines with the "Road Worn" series (which is still in production today). And now Gibson has jumped on the bandwagon with the Murphy Labs aged guitars. Regardless of your strongly held position on it one way or the other, they SELL.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> This thread is something else.
> 
> Of COURSE it's about appearance. But isn't everything? Finish (poly or nitro), colour, matte or gloss, body shape, headstock shape, chrome/nickel/gold/black hardware, pickguard...
> 
> ...


Same with me. I fell in love with a relic'd guitar but I can't bring myself to pay the premium for it. It's this one here:


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## polyslax (May 15, 2020)

1SweetRide said:


> Same with me. I fell in love with a relic'd guitar but I can't bring myself to pay the premium for it. It's this one here:
> 
> View attachment 443240


Capri Orange? Beautiful.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

polyslax said:


> Capri Orange? Beautiful.


You're right. Here's the link if you want to look at more pics: Fender '63 Heavy Relic Stratocaster Capri Orange HW pickups Used - Lauzon Music


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> Same with me. I fell in love with a relic'd guitar but I can't bring myself to pay the premium for it. It's this one here:
> 
> View attachment 443240


A few of my guitars I've had for almost 50 years and they still look pretty good. This one, to me, looks like it's had a very, very hard life. How much playing would one have to actually be doing to naturally get this guitar to this condition, I wonder.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

allthumbs56 said:


> How much playing would one have to actually be doing to naturally get this guitar to this condition, I wonder.


The forearm wear makes sense, however, how bad can one's strumming be that they hit the body so many times before making contact with the strings? 
And also finding the input jack with your cable?


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

And if you're going to attempt a relic yourself, don't forget the cigarette burn marks on the headstock. Many of the guitar players headstocks back in the day had them.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

laristotle said:


> The forearm wear makes sense, however, how bad can one's strumming be that they hit the body so many times before making contact with the strings?
> And also finding the input jack with your cable?


Unrealistic - as in, doesn't make sense from a players perspective - is what bugs me about a lot of relics. Like this one, all the finish around the input jack. Did the "original player" have no depth perception and just couldn't find the jack?

The other one that really irritates me is the 00's era Nocasters - the three wear spots behind the bridge where the intonation screws are. A) how often was someone messing with the intonation that they wore through the finish under all three screws, and b) were they supposedly that bad with handing a screwdriver that they hit the body so much that the paint is all gone there?

It's minor shit like that which turns me off of a lot of relic jobs. I don't mind them as a concept but I much prefer the ones where the builder has put some thought into it. Like if they sat down and thought, "how would have someone played this guitar?" Then set out on a pattern based on that premise. Random damage for the sake of wear though... bleh.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

allthumbs56 said:


> A few of my guitars I've had for almost 50 years and they still look pretty good. This one, to me, looks like it's had a very, very hard life. How much playing would one have to actually be doing to naturally get this guitar to this condition, I wonder.


I think it's mimicking what a cracked nitro finish would do, after crazing and as little bits of the finish cracks away and falls off, and the bare wood is exposed to sweat, moisture etc after 60s years of heavy use? The thing with nitro is that a small tiny crack that lets moisture in, causes it to flake away or peel off. The one body I did last year is already doing that where there are small scratches. 

I'll speculate that a poly finish wouldn't look like that even after 100 years.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Folkway just posted an actual 1963 Tele Custom on their Facebook.

It’s pretty damn cool.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

jdto said:


> Folkway just posted an actual 1963 Tele Custom on their Facebook.
> 
> It’s pretty damn cool.
> 
> ...


On the website it's sold. 
Could probably find a relic tele custom with a similar look.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

zztomato said:


> On the website it's sold.
> Could probably find a relic tele custom with a similar look.


Send the pics to fender custom shop and be amazed.


----------



## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

Budda said:


> Send the pics to fender custom shop and be amazed.


Like that 





__





Reverb







reverb.com


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

zztomato said:


> On the website it's sold


That didn’t take long lol


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

What were the asking for it ?


----------



## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

*This sums it up nicely. UGLY Guitars  *


----------



## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

This is how rational, well adjusted, cool people react in real life to other peoples opinions they read on the internet about guitars they like:


----------



## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Paul Running said:


> Would steam-punking be considered a form of relicing? I do enjoy looking at some of those steam-punked guitars.


This is steam-punk:


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## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

Steadfastly said:


> Keep in mind my original post included a smiley face so I don't think we should argue any longer.


What is it that you think I'm arguing? That was your word, not mine. Im just here posting what I think in a thread designed to do so. 
I'm literally not trying to convince anyone here to change their mind about relics. My posts are pretty clear. I'm only pointing out everyones right to have a negative opinion about relics or Gibson QC and the right to freely post it here.
When someone else reads that opinion (even a shitpost) they have 3 basic choices:

1. Ignore it, Ignore them, move on, who cares
2. Laugh it off, maybe refute or debate it
3. Get butthurt

Choice 3 is really, really popular here yet you rarely see it in real life because its not cool and you'd be mocked and shunned.

Learn to laugh guys...


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## bluesguitar1972 (Jul 16, 2011)

Initially, I really didn't like relic guitars. Then I had a few, and came around. Benefits to a (well done) relic guitar are a nice worn in or broken in feel, and with it already pre-dinged there's less concern about gigging. Although, honestly, I take pretty good care to not ding my guitars and it's never been an issue for me, but it could happen to anyone. 

I've had several Fender Custom Shops that felt great, as did the Nash guitar I had. I also thought the old MIM Fender Road Worn series were really good for the price, though I'm less impressed with the newer MIM worn guitars I've tried. I also have a Murphy Lab R9 Light Aged, and it plays/feels fantastic. I've gigged with it a few times, and not sure how comfortable I'd have been if it was mint without the Aged process. 

But as others have mentioned, to each their own. If you don't like it, don't buy it.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

I’ve owned a fair number of Gibson guitars and have only had one QC issue that stood out for me. I didn’t even see it when I bought the guitar, but noticed months later that the headstock veneer on a Les Paul had a spot that had been sanded low, so it was thinner there than the rest of the veneer. I guess it’s a bad thing, but the guitar sounded and played great. As for relics, I’m not a huge fan of the heavy relic style, but I’ve had a couple of Fender “Journeyman” relic guitars and boy did they ever feel great to play. The neck with the finish worn off is fantastic, the rolled fingerboard edges and the sunken, thin lacquer on the bodies just make them feel great.

That’s just my feeling on it and nobody else has to like them, or Gibson guitars either, for that matter. As soon as someone else becomes responsible for paying for my guitars, they can decide what finishes and brands work best for me.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

jdto said:


> As soon as someone else becomes responsible for paying for my guitars


Where can I find one of those??


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Mark Brown said:


> Where can I find one of those??


Get in line, lol


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Yes, I would be pleased to accept a new R8 heavy relic if anyone thinks that’s what I should be playing and wants to set up a crowd fund to pay for it… lol


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Wardo said:


> Yes, I would be pleased to accept a new R8 heavy relic if anyone thinks that’s what I should be playing and wants to set up a crowd fund to pay for it… lol


Careful. You might end up being labelled a poseur! The horror!


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Destracted said:


> Learn to laugh guys...


I watched this last night and hilariously the relic topic is #1 on their list. They make some amazing points. I love the part where they said they've taken photos of authentic vintage guitars and purposely put them on message boards and then watch the carnage as all the armchair experts rip apart the "horrible relic job". lol! 

The other part they brought up about "stolen valour" is an interesting jab. Like if you play a vintage guitar that's got wear from previous owners, aren't you just as much of a poser since you yourself didn't do any of that wear? How's that any different than playing a relic? "_THE WEAR IS AUTHENTIC!_" Yeah, but _you _didn't have any hand in it so who cares how it got on the guitar? Kinda puts a different spin on the whole authenticity high horse.


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## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> I watched this last night and hilariously the relic topic is #1 on their list. They make some amazing points. I love the part where they said they've taken photos of authentic vintage guitars and purposely put them on message boards and then watch the carnage as all the armchair experts rip apart the "horrible relic job". lol!
> 
> The other part they brought up about "stolen valour" is an interesting jab. Like if you play a vintage guitar that's got wear from previous owners, aren't you just as much of a poser since you yourself didn't do any of that wear? How's that any different than playing a relic? "_THE WEAR IS AUTHENTIC!_" Yeah, but _you _didn't have any hand in it so who cares how it got on the guitar? Kinda puts a different spin on the whole authenticity high horse.


It is an intersting thought but I would imagine the stolen valour applies to the actual guitar, not the guitarist.
When I play my buddies real 1965 Strat he bought in 65 and hear the stories of the gigs he's played with it I'm witnessing and experiencing a literal relic (him and the guitar). Its a real piece of history and you can see and smell it. It has played more gigs than I will ever even see. A 65 relic reissue might be great but it's trading off the glory of a real worn 65 strat. Its an homage.

I think a good analogy would be art prints or even copies. You could have a perfect recreation of the Van Gogh Sunflower hanging on your wall. So perfect it looks identical with faded and cracked paint and it does the same job the original does by brightening up your living room and making everyone that sees it feel better. However its not Van Goghs' Sunflower and no one is going to line up for the chance to see it like they would the original.

I do find it curious that Gibsons "play authentic" doesnt apply to wear somehow... By defintion relicing isn't authentic wear or age.


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## Stephenlouis (Jun 24, 2019)

Each to their own. I personally like mint things so when I haver a choice Ill buy the old new looking guitar, same with cars and motorcycles. I also prefer stock. Now that said the best Fender I ever played and still want to this day was a relic job! My friend's.1 chunk of 100 year old pine and a California neck. The guitar lives in a anti gravity zone it is so light, and as balanced as a fine sword. Whole thing vibrates when you play it unplugged. Amazing. Do I wish the surf blue paint was mint? Yes I guess so.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Destracted said:


> You could have a perfect recreation of the Van Gogh Sunflower ..


Would it fool people into tossing soup on it though?


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## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

laristotle said:


> Would it fool people into tossing soup on it though?


Exactly. 🥫

Stolen Valour isn't a great description but there is a difference between a legitimate historical item and a recreation that includes staged aging. 

How about if you went to a vintage guitar show and saw all sorts of great vintage guitars and you came across a 2001 R9 that someone had obviously reliced? Would it feel out of place or would it seem authentic? 

By their nature relic guitars are pretending to be something that they aren't and thats inherently kind of silly. It obviously doesnt mean owning one yourself makes you a pretender or anything even if someone ribs you for it. The jokes are there. Awesome or not theres is plenty of humor involved in the entire idea, so laugh about it guys. Its really not that serious either way.


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## Destracted (Aug 20, 2021)

Stephenlouis said:


> .... I personally like mint things so when I haver a choice Ill buy the old new looking guitar, same with cars and motorcycles.
> 
> Do I wish the surf blue paint was mint? Yes I guess so.



Those 2 points are key I think.

1. Almost everybody likes to keep their new stuff nice. 100% of us would bargain down the price of a new guitar at a shop with physical damage from misuse.

2. Everyone would prefer a vintage guitar in as nice shape as possible, its why the price drops fast once they get beat up vs. mint.

The only guys that don't really care about the above 2 are Rock Stars or pro guitarists that either have a dont give a [email protected] attitude or a serious gigging pro thats done a million miles with it. Relic guitars, especially vintage RI recreate that vibe without the actual history or substance. Its why relics need to look authentic. Think about that, whats 'authentic damage'? Well, its damage that was honestly (carelessly) inflicted during the business of playing guitar. Thats rock and roll. Thats pretty cool, especially as time goes on. 
Relics ape that vibe without the street cred to back it up. Its just true. Further the idea someo prop designer got paid a bunch of money to essentially mishandle and abuse a fine instrumeny right after it was carefully made by gifted craftsmen is somewhat ridiculous. 

It doesnt mean they arent good guitars.


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## Stephenlouis (Jun 24, 2019)

Try selling a relic'd classical guitar! It only works for the rock and roll crowd would be another semi firm rule I think. ( I just spent the morning hand polishing the BACK of a Ryoji Matsuoka I plan to sell due to yellowing.)


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## Squawk (Jun 21, 2018)

I like relics simply because if I add another ding, it just increases the value . It's fine on Fender style guitars, but I tried a $12k Custom Shop LP recently that was relic'd, and that was just wrong to me.


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## Pat James (5 mo ago)

Ernest Hemingway wrote this in his preface to The Fifth Column and The First Forty-Nine Stories. Of course he’s talking about writing. But it’s not a very big leap to think he was talking about life, too:

“In going where you have to go, and doing what you have to do, and seeing what you have to see, you'll dull and blunt the instrument you write with. But I would rather have it bent and dull and know I had to put it to the grindstone again and hammer it into shape and put a whetstone to it, and know that I had something to write about, than to have it bright and shining and nothing to say, or smooth and well-oiled in the closet, but unused.”


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)




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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Destracted said:


> 1. Ignore it, Ignore them, move on, who cares
> 2. Laugh it off, maybe refute or debate it
> 3. Get butthurt


You seem to be approaching number 3. 😆

Hey, what do you think of this?


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

zztomato said:


> You seem to be approaching number 3. 😆
> 
> Hey, what do you think of this?
> View attachment 448586


Half the users here:


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Half the users here:


You leave PC principal out of this!


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

I'm so glad we've finally got this relic thing all squared away.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

zztomato said:


> You seem to be approaching number 3. 😆
> 
> Hey, what do you think of this?
> View attachment 448586


I'm more offended by the white switch tip. Blasphemy.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> View attachment 448570


My first peek at this thread. So much pedantry and altruism. Exactly what I expected.

"This sums it up nicely."


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Is it real or is it Memorex?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> View attachment 448627
> 
> 
> Is it real or is it Memorex?


Either way, it needs a refinish.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

keto said:


> My first peek at this thread. So much pedantry and altruism. Exactly what I expected.
> 
> "This sums it up nicely."



The Trunchbull relics children.


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

Can't see the video at work... but I'm hoping there's a matilda reference in here..


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## desolation_angel (2 mo ago)

Relics? Hate 'em, got two...


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> View attachment 448627
> 
> 
> Is it real or is it Memorex?



The "R" on the bridge plate tells me Memorex


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

I'm sure there is some online hate of relic jobs out there, but I ain't seen much here. Perhaps relic-lovers are a bit sensitive/triggered by experiences on other forums, but here we just teasing. You gotta admit, juxtaposed with the oppooisite view (collectors with closet classics, or even humble blues dad's trying to not scratch up their prized 2010 Gibson) it's kind of a funny thing to pay for so questioning it and saying you don;t get it is fair enough. By all means pay for and enjoy it though, if that's what floats yer boat - ain't nobody tryna stop ya.



Powdered Toast Man said:


> Maybe MAYBE at one time that would be true. But these days old guitars are collector's items and you don't see them on stage anymore except for the very rich and or famous. They've both rare and expensive. So it's not like you can just go out and get the real thing. And even if you do have the real thing it's not like you're going to take it to the local bar gig.


I'm doing it wrong apparently. I know plenty of other folks who gig their vintage stuff too (mostly bass players). I bought mine before the prices went crazy and I was young with plenty of disposable income - now I can't afford to buy a reissue to use as a beater (kids, mortgage etc) and frankly, the girls wanna go out and dance; they just get all depressed sitting at home unplayed.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Granny Gremlin said:


> I'm sure there is some online hate of relic jobs out there, but I ain't seen much here. Perhaps relic-lovers are a bit sensitive/triggered by experiences on other forums, but here we just teasing. You gotta admit, juxtaposed with the oppooisite view (collectors with closet classics, or even humble blues dad's trying to not scratch up their prized 2010 Gibson) it's kind of a funny thing to pay for so questioning it and saying you don;t get it is fair enough. By all means pay for and enjoy it though, if that's what floats yer boat - ain't nobody tryna stop ya.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm doing it wrong apparently. I know plenty of other folks who gig their vintage stuff too (mostly bass players). I bought mine before the prices went crazy and I was young with plenty of disposable income - now I can't afford to buy a reissue to use as a beater (kids, mortgage etc) and frankly, the girls wanna go out and dance; they just get all depressed sitting at home unplayed.


If someone is taking a $25,000 guitar to a bar gig I guess I’m the one doing it wrong.


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

I've never owned a FCS guitar.. I have owned probably a half dozen G historics, etc.. I generally dislike relics, preferring real beat up vintage.
however, in some situations where vintage is unobtainable, a _really_ good relic is just the ticket.


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

Granny Gremlin said:


> it's kind of a funny thing to pay for so questioning it and saying you don't get it is fair enough


Seems to me like if such threads were really about people trying to understanding something they don't, they'd be listening much more than they'd be writing essay on the merit of not understanding what they don't understand.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Derek_T said:


> Seems to me like if such threads were really about people trying to understanding something they don't, they'd be listening much more than they'd be writing essay on the merit of not understanding what they don't understand.


No one has to understand. I don't like pointy guitars and I don't understand why anyone would pay for them, but some people really do like them and they're willing to pay lots of money for them sometimes. Relic is just a finish option. No one is pretending their FCS guitar is actually a 1951 Telecaster. It's just a thing some people like. If you don't like it, MOVE ON and don't worry about it.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> No one has to understand. I don't like pointy guitars and I don't understand why anyone would pay for them, but some people really do like them and they're willing to pay lots of money for them sometimes. Relic is just a finish option. No one is pretending their FCS guitar is actually a 1951 Telecaster. It's just a thing some people like. If you don't like it, MOVE ON and don't worry about it.


I pretend my pointy guitar is a 51 tele


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

Mark Brown said:


> I pretend my pointy guitar is a 51 tele


It's completely pointless...


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Mark Brown said:


> I pretend my pointy guitar is a 51 tele


And these days all you have to do is say that it is and just like that ...... it is. Anybody who says otherwise is just a hater.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Mark Brown said:


> I pretend my pointy guitar is a 51 tele


I pretend my pointy is a 51 tele guitar


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

1SweetRide said:


> *Hugh Cornwell: “I can’t fathom what the attraction is about a relic guitar. It’s battered and beaten up, and suddenly it’s 10 times the price?”*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Humans are funny...lets pay an extra couple thousand dollars to make a guitar look used...but, we try to make ourselves look younger bc no one wants to look old...


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)




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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

ezcomes said:


> Humans are funny...lets pay an extra couple thousand dollars to make a guitar look used...but, we try to make ourselves look younger bc no one wants to look old...


You strap on the old looking guitar to make yourself look younger by comparison.


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## desolation_angel (2 mo ago)

ezcomes said:


> Humans are funny...lets pay an extra couple thousand dollars to make a guitar look used...


I got a quote once for a guitar. The standard price was relic'd. I asked how much it would cost me to have a non-relic'd guitar... and that was an option that cost MORE. 



> ... but, we try to make ourselves look younger bc no one wants to look old...


I don't mind looking old... it's the feeling old that pisses me off...


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## desolation_angel (2 mo ago)

1SweetRide said:


> *Hugh Cornwell: “I can’t fathom what the attraction is about a relic guitar. It’s battered and beaten up, and suddenly it’s 10 times the price?”*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just read the article and... that's a weird article. A '64 Silvertone locked away in a vault? Afraid to even change the strings? Odd.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

desolation_angel said:


> I got a quote once for a guitar. The standard price was relic'd. I asked how much it would cost me to have a non-relic'd guitar... and that was an option that cost MORE.
> 
> I don't mind looking old... it's the feeling old that pisses me off...


I've refinished 2 guitars, and I found that getting it 'perfect' isn't easy! I settled for a "good from far.." finish. The guitars play fine.
I can see that in a production environment getting it almost good enough, then add some worn areas and chips where the finish flaws are, and you're done, would save some time.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

tomee2 said:


> I've refinished 2 guitars, and I found that getting it 'perfect' isn't easy! I settled for a "good from far.." finish. The guitars play fine.
> I can see that in a production environment getting it almost good enough, then add some worn areas and chips where the finish flaws are, and you're done, would save some time.


I find that many of my projects follow a logarithmic pattern...like a capacitor charging.
The last 10% of completion is half my time on the project.


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

Lots of threads about this and it always seems that you get a lot of folks who don't like them giving reasons why they don't while you get a lot of folks who like them defending their position but not so many saying why they do like them. So my question to those who like relics is specifically what is it about having a new guitar that looks old attracts you to that. Explain yourself please.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

BEACHBUM said:


> Lots of threads about this and it always seems that you get a lot of folks who don't like them giving reasons why they don't while you get a lot of folks who like them defending their position but not so many saying why they do like them.
> So my question to those who like relics is specifically what is it about having a new guitar that looks old attracts you to that. Explain yourself please.


Most have made it pretty clear why they like them but since the blatantly obvious "personal taste" is not good enough...
Why I like them;

I like the feel of a worn guitar- the neck especially
I can gig with it and lean it against my amp, put it on the floor, let others play it and not worry about putting a ding in it.
relics are almost always done with nitro lacquer. Nitro wears well. It is also a very thin finish or can be applied in thin coats that leave the woodgrain to show more and the guitar to "breathe" more easily (if you believe that stuff)
I like the look of vintage guitars. I can't afford a vintage guitar, so...
I can build a relic for much less than a nitro finished fender CS or vintage reissue. I find a nice looking body and do the rest myself. It's fun!

A lot of relics can look like complete crap. I can see why a person would not like some relics like the ones that look like someone dragged them behind a car.

Here's the biggest takeaway for anyone who is wondering; why someone likes a relic is the same as why some people like red guitars, some people like black pointy guitars, some people like jazz guitars, some like 8 string, 7 string, 12 string, electrics, acoustics, semi-hollow, fully hollow, under 7 pounds, under 8 pounds, fat necks, skinny shredder necks...on and on it goes. Some people will only play a vintage guitar. Some will only play brand name guitars. I have all kinds of guitars- new, vintage, relic, weird, high end, low end. I like guitars.

Is that any clearer for you? Why you need to ask is kind of odd but there you go.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

desolation_angel said:


> I got a quote once for a guitar. The standard price was relic'd. I asked how much it would cost me to have a non-relic'd guitar... and that was an option that cost MORE.


That never happened.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

tomee2 said:


> I've refinished 2 guitars, and I found that getting it 'perfect' isn't easy! I settled for a "good from far.." finish. The guitars play fine.
> I can see that in a production environment getting it almost good enough, then add some worn areas and chips where the finish flaws are, and you're done, would save some time.


FCS charges the least for their "NOS" finish and it goes up from there. The only time a reliced guitar is going to cost more is if they're mass producing relics and have to figure out how to make a clean one. I can only think of one company where this might be the case.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

“Its pretending to be something its not”

bad news, guys. Take your drive pedals off your pedalboards that feed clean amps, it’s a sham.


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## puzz (5 mo ago)

Plain and simple, I just like the look. It's a style and finish just like red, or dipped or cream binding or hand carved.


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