# Headstock Repair



## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

I have an old '68 Kawai, sister grabbed this and a very nice Supro Super Seven for $20 each a few years back, gave them to me to clean up.

Supro came out fine, was in great shape,m original case even... the Kawai though, bit rougher.

Missing one of the screws for the tune-o-matic to move the rollers back/forth, and the string tree bar missing a screw cap on the back. Electronics need resoldered I suspect because although look ok, I get zero sound.

Headstock is split. Right up the side along the grain. Upside, it's pretty far from where the tuners are and strings go so, not a 'structural' part. The face of the headstock is a bit warped and concaved. Small trace of glue was in the crack, which I used a hooked xacto and cleaned out.

I had hoped that simply putting the face down on a flat surface and clamping over the crack would flatted the headstock and close the crack, but no such luck. It does flatten out with the big clamps and crack closed a bit but, not fully.

Could be that the previous person used a saw maybe? and that crack will never close... not sure. I tried clamping down and from the sides as well, no luck, and with that much force being used, worried as soon as I unclamp it after being glued and sitting for a week or so, it'll just curve right back up.

Any suggestions?


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

There might still be glue at bottom of crack, preventing it from closing.

Once that figured out, I would build two jigs/claws to enclose each side of the headstock, that would provide two parallel surfaces to put the clamp to. Then you can add all the pressure you want and it will eventually close. Wood glue in the crack and let dry for 24 hours. It should stay closed.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Yep, what he said. It's not structural so it's just a matter of getting it not look horrible.

It could also just be that the crack is old (and since not structural, previous owner didn't bother to repair) so it's dried out and stiff. I'd suggest steaming it a bit to make it easier to bend it back to closed position. If it wasn't for the binding/overlay I'd say snap the whole thing off and reglue if it wont bend back.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2017)

wood filler?


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

I used one of the below to clean it out. The top/right saw and hook... I can't see there being anything left, I went over it until nothing more came out, but will give another go.

I was wondering also, rather than cut it off, if I cut it down further to the face, but not through, maybe will allow it to close?

My concern is that front face and cutting through the black, seems less like paint and more like a layer of something.

Glue wise, I was going to use Gorilla Glue for wood... maybe I should switch to epoxy?


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Cleaned it out again, can shine a light on one end and see it the other, totally clear and free now... still no luck. Got 3 big clamps on it and really heaved them tight, crack closes maybe half way.

That curved edge is making it difficult to clamp from the sides.... just loosens and falls off.

Kinda glad it's being difficulty... good for learning from... but also annoying.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Did you get my explanation for making jigs ? 

Take a plank a few cm wider than the headstock. Trace the headstock on it and cut out the inside shape of the headstock, so you get two pieces of wood, that when wrapped around the headstock, will give you 2 parallel surface to put the clamps on. 

I think steaming it would just make the wood swollen, not good. 

If no wood was removed when cleaning up the crack, you should use regular yellow/white wood glue. If you think both surfaces of the crack don't match each other anymore, then epoxy is the answer. Better than Gorilla glue.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

@BFGood - I think I'll have to give that a try... not much access to tools at the moment but, guess they don't need to be cut too perfectly to work. Need to get a few more large clamps though.

Crack wise... it's fairly wide and not really too V shaped... I'd almost guess that someone used a hacksaw maybe? or just a bad crack and big. I Googled this guitar for more info... and I think half the photos have the same crack in the same place.

Given the amount of force needed to flatten the thing, my main concerns isn't so much the crack... epoxy and some colouring can fill in the crack no worries, but once I loosen up the clamp, I'm worried it'll just curve again and crack the glue. :S

I only have time to do this stuff on the weekends and well, 10pm, finish polishing the chrome and I guess tackle it again next weekend.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

THRobinson said:


> ... but once I loosen up the clamp, I'm worried it'll just curve again and crack the glue. :S


Don't worry, it won't.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Well... finally had the chance to do more work on it, and that is one reluctant crack.

Started to wonder though... when I was looking for images of the headstock logo to recreate, I saw quite a few of these guitars, both this and the bass versions... with the same crack. Looking at the neck I kinda realized, it's plywood. The grain is the same on all of them, and each line is perfectly spaced, etc.

Anyways... because the crack is in a spot where there are no strings, tension, stress etc... I'm wondering if maybe instead of paint, they used something on the headstock that over time shrank and the strain of the front surface shrinking, it cracked the back open. Would explain why so many have identical damage, and why the front is so curved.

Could the black surface be something like, vulcanite? or something that maybe with a bit of heat, may soften a bit and add some releif?


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Weird... found this one. Same guitar, mine has a nicer trem though... but this one has a maple neck, not plywood... and looking closely... exact same split in the exact same spot. Has to be whatever is on the face of the headstock that's doing it.

Maybe I should same the front off, flatten/glue the headstock, then paint it black.

Winston / Kawai 431 1967 "Vox Teardrop Style" 3 Tone Sunburst All Original w/ Vibrato


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## nnieman (Jun 19, 2013)

I wonder if the headstock overlay has shrunk....that would cause the crack.

Can we get a pic of the front of the heatstock?

Nathan


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

What about cutting a channel and putting an inlay strip in? I'd be concerned that clamping too hard would cause the split to go right through.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Ya, that's why I was wondering about heat... won't flatten it but may stretch a bit and give it some relief, enough to clamp it shut.

I thought it had binding and painted black on top, but when I looked into the tuner holes, I can see the layers. It's the same as what's used on pickguards, black/white/black, about 1/16" thick or so.

There's a pic at the top of the front from the side-view... shows the curve, photo directly at the front shows nothing because well, black.

Annoyingly, the top nut is glued to the top of the veneer... I was thinking maybe using an iron and thin cloth, I could slowly heat up the face and maybe lift it off. Make it flat again and fix the wood, glue it back down again.

I do suspect it is the top that shrank and caused the crack. This guitar seems to have come with either maple or plywood for the neck and I've seen 5 images on Google with the same split in the same spot on all of them.

I want to keep it as original as possible... using the guitar as a learning exercise, else, I'd remove the nut, toss the veneer and replace both with new.  Then again, maybe the lesson to learn is that THAT is the best thing to do.


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

I'd cut a channel and put a strip in there.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Lord-Humongous said:


> I'd cut a channel and put a strip in there.


My concern is getting the front flat and staying flat without forcing it so much that eventually the front splits. :S


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

It'd be a delicate job, but you could cut the channel depth to the back of headstock facing material essentially taking out all the wood and then it would flatten easier, or if the tuner side is still aligned, not worry about it.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Ya, that was my original plan.... cut up to the face/veneer but not into it, warm it with an iron and flatten it... then get the glue and clamps. Post#5 I think... I think I went from the simple solution to making it harder than needs to be. 

Glue wise... I have white wood Gorilla Glue, debated between it and epoxy... but was also looking at Gorilla Glue that's a dark amber colour and apparently works with moisture? and expands? anyone have any feedback on that?

Otherwise, I suspect the gap will be a bit big even when the headstock is flat, I don't think it will close fully so was going to use epoxy and maybe a bit of brown colouring. It's essentially plywood, so the glue layers are darker.


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## Ayr Guitars (Oct 24, 2016)

Don’t use Gorilla Glue. That stuff has no business anywhere near a guitar. It is polyurethane glue, it expands and foams up when it dries and makes a huge mess. 

Some regular yellow carpenter glue is best. Titebond original if you can get it, or Lepage Carpenter glue is available at any hardware store / big orange box.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Ya, I was just looking and Home Hardware seems to carry Titebond II, III, Hide and Moulding... not Original, which is weird. But from what I've read, Titebond II is a bit stronger and I guess more weatherproof which is irrelevant.

Luckily, the Gorilla Glue I never touched, still got the receipt. I'll grab the Titebond II.

But, if I can't get that gap shut... I guess I need to switch to Epoxy anyways to fill in the gap.


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## Ayr Guitars (Oct 24, 2016)

If you can’t find Titebond original, just get the Lepage stuff. Don’t bother with the titebond II or III for guitar building.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Is the II or III worse than the original? or just a price thing?

Weird that half the stores don't carry Titebond, and the ones that do, carry II and III only. See a few threads on it in this forum... same thing.

Ah well, Amazon.ca has it.

But again, if a gap... would Epoxy be the better solution?


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## Ayr Guitars (Oct 24, 2016)

Neither is worse or better - technically it will all work the same. But, you really don’t want a waterproof glue on a guitar and it certainly isn’t needed. 

Titebond original is hard to find - the lumber supplier here in town carries it so I tend to buy that. Lepage will Work just as well; I’ve used it on many many cabinet projects and several guitars too.


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## Ayr Guitars (Oct 24, 2016)

I should answer the second part too - to fill the gap, wood glue alone won’t work. Epoxy will. But the best would be to open up the crack a glue in a filler strip (with yellow wood glue). It needs to be bang on though - which might be more work than its worth.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Well... I'll see if can try a few things this weekend. Ideally, take the veneer right off... cut the side piece off and re-glue it on. Then glue the veneer back on. Probably the best way to get a good bond... but also more work than worth and may end up ruining that veneer.

If I wasn't worried about keeping original, I'd heat gun or sand off that veneer and glue a new piece of pvc plastic down when done. Maybe a Tusq nut. 

I think game plan is
- Cut into the crack up to the veneer, but not into/through
- Heat up the veneer with an iron, try to clamp it down when warm and see if can get the veneer to stretch enough to flatten mostly. Maybe, clamp to a metal bar and use a heat gun on low to heat up the metal bar? Be a bit harder to keep an eye on though, more risk of damages.
- Glue/clamp the gap shut
- Maybe heat again to make sure no stress from the veneer

Found a few decent images online, not great but enough that I was able to recreate the Winston headstock logo in illustrator. I guess these guitars had a glued on sticker basically and when the glue dried and wood warped, they all fell off.

Other than that, I need to get one of those bolt size/thread gauges. tune-o-matic is missing 1 long thin bolt for one of the saddles, and I have some close, but not close enough to work. Plus an acorn nut for the string-tree, mine's missing one.

Originally got this and a Supro Super Seven for $40 (for the pair) and was just gonna play around with them and fix them up, maybe repaint etc... then saw on Reverb and eBay they've recently sold for $500-750 each so... don't want to hack it up. Nice guitars... not really 'my style'. Sell towards the next project.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Well, cut into the crack a bit more. Put the jig on it, clamped it, then heated on low with the heat-gun, tightening it ever so often. 

Curve is a lot less, but still some curve. Crack is almost totally shut, and given how it was when I got it plus my cutting, I think the edges of the crack won't ever close fully anyways. Black face of the headstock also has a hairline mark that I think may be a crack but hard to see.

Let it cool, un-clamped. 

Upside is the curve stayed mostly gone, the crack though didn't open back up... remained more or less closed than open so poses a bit of an issue getting epoxy into it. 

Don't want to risk cracking the face more, so I think it's good. I'll use a syringe and try to get epoxy in as deep as I can and clamp it up again. Not a perfect job sadly, but, not bad.


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## nnieman (Jun 19, 2013)

THRobinson said:


> Is the II or III worse than the original? or just a price thing?
> 
> Weird that half the stores don't carry Titebond, and the ones that do, carry II and III only. See a few threads on it in this forum... same thing.
> 
> ...


Titebond 2 & 3 are meant for outdoor use, so they actually flex a bit.
Not appropriate for guitar work.

I think you're on the right track with the epoxy, it may not end up perfect but it will look a lot better than it did!

Nathan


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Well, the front is much flatter but the crack didn't hinge back open as expected, kinda shut most the way and stayed shut. Tried epoxy in a syringe, but started to go solid way too fast... will have to play with the ratio (came in a syringe to mix 50/50).

Because of the very narrow crack now, I was debating the swelling Gorilla Glue, to expand and fill in to the bottom of the crack. Also messy but, epoxy now even with a razor and pushing it in, I'll only get so far.

Since also hard to get moisture into the crack, thought mix a few drops water into the glue in the syringe, then squirt it in.

But so far, all that work, it does look much better. I came up with a different jig last night, may be able to flatten the face down a bit more with it... in which case the crack will be totally impossible to get glue into. Only way to flex the face is with heat it seems and when cooled down, it doesn't flex back. If I add glue then try heating, glue would run out, or cure too fast before get the chance to bend it.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

Got it done today... took an old CD case and cut out a 1"x2" rectangle of the clear plastic and drilled a small hole in the centre, just big enough for the tip of the needle to fit through. Ended up buying one of those epoxy syringes that come with a couple of the long plastic tips that mix the epoxy as you squeeze.

Before I did anything I used scotch magic tape on either side of the crack. Put the plastic on top, needle in the hole and was able to force the epoxy deep down into the crack as I slid the plastic along the crack. I then took a razor, scraped off the excess and used a paper towel with a small amount of alcohol on it to wipe up anything that got onto the wood.

After a while when still very soft but not runny, I was able to peel up the tape.

Glue got in deep, and virtually NO mess! Was pretty happy about that. Tomorrow after it's had 24-30h to cure, I'll sand it smooth and buff it up. New toner should be here... recreated the Winston logo, went to print and outta toner. :S


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## alwaysflat (Feb 14, 2016)

Looks like a laminate similar to Klira, where they were said to use old laminated wood prepped for propellers that was postwar surplus. I would have considered cutting the entire bad laminate line out with a jeweler's saw, squaring it up and re-glue, clean up the edges then focusing the repair on the overlay. You might consider this if you're not pleased with your result. Just wood, right ?
Sorry my 2 cents was late in the game.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

It's pretty good, but gap not 100% closed. Could tell before gluing/clamping that it was missing a decent amount of material because of the plywood. Every ply is evenly spaced and equally the same size and where the crack was was missing basically all the light coloured wood. So, I knew it would never close fully.

That said, I keep looking and debating about cutting it off, removing the veneer top, gluing, flattening etc... but I don't plan to keep it and doubt the value would go up enough to offset the work done if I did that.


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## DerrickT (Feb 20, 2018)

alwaysflat said:


> Looks like a laminate similar to Klira, where they were said to use old laminated wood prepped for propellers that was postwar surplus. I would have considered cutting the entire bad laminate line out with a jeweler's saw, squaring it up and re-glue, clean up the edges then focusing the repair on the overlay. You might consider this if you're not pleased with your result. Just wood, right ?
> Sorry my 2 cents was late in the game.


Just another two cents along @alwaysflat 's line of thought - If you got back at it I would suggest cutting the channel clean, but not through the surface veneer, and making a thin slice of wood just slightly thinner that the crack to fill it. When glued and clamped it would be a pull the top flat again and have no gap, and look like another layer of the original laminate. Make it slightly longer than the headstock and you can sand it flush put a layer or two (or 10) of the finish of your choice on it.


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## THRobinson (Jun 29, 2014)

That puppy is done.... still in pieces but done. 

I debated it a while, but in the end, won't make it worth much more anyways, and likely will hang on a wall I think. It's much better than it was when I got it, refinished and polished... I wish I did the full cut mostly through like I originally planned to do (many posts ago) but after all the work that's been done, I don't want to undo it all.


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