# Shipping Problems with online dealer



## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

Hi Guys, 

I just wanted to know if any of you have ever had any problems with LAMusic.ca?

I've been going through a bit of hell with them for about 2.5 months now. I have dealt with them before and never had a problem, ordered a cab for my vox and it arrived the next day, ordered some accessories, same thing, next day.... then i ordered a pedal by phone, asked if it was in stock, they said yes, we have them for $$$, how would you like to pay, I said paypal.... they added it on to their site with me on the phone and I sent the money. 

Weeks later, I had not recieved my pedal so I called and spoke with a sales person who looked it up on the pc and said oh, it's backordered.... not sure when we'll have them (on their site, "If an item is not in stock, most will be shipped the next day. And if it can not be, we will contact you immediately with an estimated time of arrival." - https://lamusic.ca/default.asp?szNav=About). So I said ok, waited for another month and called back..... oh we still don't have them, we'll let you know when it ships. So, I waited more, another couple weeks go by and I call again, "oh it was shipped three weeks ago, you didn't get it?". 

Turns out it got shipped to my address without the apartment number, and, canada post being the angels they are, delivered it somewhere!!! So, I called lamusic and they opened a case with canada post.... this was over a month ago, everytime I call I get told i'm being looked after and not to worry but, they've had $300 of my money for almost 4 months, and have refused to refund me and won't keep me in the loop with whats going on. 

I've referred many of my friends there (some with orders for a whole rig), as well as spent alot of my own money there. I'm sure the store is great, but I'll think twice about ordering online from these guys again, I'm sure any other store would have at least said here's your money back, or we'll ship you out another one asap. 

Anyways, End rant!


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## danbo (Nov 27, 2006)

There's no "Customer Service" there, just "We'll take your money!"
That's why I shop across the street at the Guitar Shop..best service in the world!
Maybe you should call the BBB? 
Mario is the owner, I'd ask to speak/meet him.


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## Gunny (Feb 21, 2006)

I was in the store once when I purchased a bass combo. Recently I checked their on-line availability for an item and it said "in stock". It was an expensive piece of equipment, but some similar ones had free shipping and mine didn't....so I phoned them. Turns out they didn't have it in stock at all, and would have to order it in. The free shipping thing was a gimmick because they take a loss on part of the payment, but it's never totally free to the buyer.
I'm OK with these guys based on my first purchase. I now know to call ahead before making another buy. I didn't know about that other store nearby, I'd check that out too.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

Call them and ask to speak to a manager. Don't bother speaking to the same level of dudes you've been dealing with up to this point. Tell the manager that if it's not resolved in a week you're going to file a complaint with the better business bureau. You've got to give them a timeline, otherwise they'll never fix it. That should get his or her attention. Don't get mad. Don't freak out, just insist that he fix this problem immediately, as you've been more than patient.

Also, tell the manager that you're going to have your credit card reverse the charge (assuming that your paypal was being paid from your credit card) if it isn't sorted out. I'm guessing that by waiting this long you're no longer protected by Paypal whatsoever. Call up your CC company and inquire about reversing the charges.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

Oh yeah, and just for your info, nearly every online place will swear up and down that they have what you've asked for in stock (even if it isn't). They want you to place the order and give them their money instead of finding it somewhere else. 

It sucks, but that little "trick" seems to be par for the course. Then they just hope that they get it in stock before you get so ticked off by waiting that they lose you as a customer.


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

When someone agree's to sell you something, and takes your money and then doesn't give you what bought, thats called theft, or fraud (and in this case, also mail fraud). 

I have threatened to have the charges reversed on my card, I've been holding off because they have been decent when i called and I still really want what I ordered. Plus the case was opened on canada posts end so I was waiting to see what we heard back from them. 

I want to reiterate that I have had 2 positive experiences buying from them as well as this one. It just infuriates me that this is what they consider "looking after you dude". I've had better experience's with my local shop when things went wrong and they are known for being slack.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

How is it mail fraud if they accidentally shipped it somewhere else? It's bad service, plain and simple. It can be resolved. I realize you're all pissed off about this, but it's hardly fraud or theft.

Hate to break it to ya, but the police aren't going to do jack. Don't waste your time or theirs by calling them.


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## gproud (Mar 2, 2006)

I would just like to point out that a Canada Post claim can take a very long time to conclude, with little information provided by CP during that time. I waited 2 1/2 months for an insurance claim. I called about every 2-3 weeks during that time. Also, you can't actually open a claim until 30 business days after the shipment went out. So from the time the thing was shipped that I mailed, to me getting the insurance money was almost 4 months.


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

Canada post had the case open for 3 weeks and then closed it and said, the trace on the package indicates it was delivered. the end. no product from la, no refund. I ordered, I paid, I didn't recieve. (the order was placed jan 4th). 

Also, advertising something is in stock when it isn't and promising a 3-4 day delivering time.... isn't that considered false advertising.


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

I'm not sure if you stated so or not, but I assume that you ordered online and had the item shipped as you do not live in the area where they are located.

When dealing with matters such as this, never -ever- use the telephone as your method of communication. Use email if you can, and if you are local follow it up with an in person trip to the store. You want a record of what you are going through.

As a small business owner, pissing off a customer is not worth bickering over a few hundred dollars. I'm sure if you go straight to the top man (or woman) and you explain the situation in a rational manner they will just give you whatever it is that you paid for and you won't have to bother waiting around to see what happens with Canada Post. They should also learn that they have to get a signature when they ship product.

Some lower level managment types might not have the experience or knowledge to see that inconveniencing and pissing off paying customers costs more than a few hundred dollars in damage to the companies reputation. It is far cheaper to keep the customers that you have than it is to obtain new ones.

If you approach the owner with a threatening attitude, or even worse if it is relayed to him/her through one of the employees that are covering up a simple mistake, everyone is going to have their backs up and things will take longer to work out.

One reason websites list products as being in stock when they are not may be because the stores website is tied into a distributors site, and is not updated frequently enough. It usually works like this:

You go to a web site and order something

The store processes your order payment and passes it onto the distributor.

The distributor drop ships the item to you, using a packong slip/invoice with the store's logo.

Good Luck,

Andy


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

Hi Andy, 

Thanks for the reply! 

Just so everyone knows, I am not a threatening kind of person or a person that likes any kind of confrontation. I've been very very gentle in my communications with the store and it took alot of hmm'ing and ha'ing before I made this post. This is not something I have done before (making a negative post about a business or person) and I hope I will not do it again, but, I'm losing patience. 

I have been doing my best in keeping with writing emails over calling as I realize the importance of the trail if something does happen, however, when I send three or four emails to two different people and the general sales line and recieve no response for 14 days (this has happened numerous times), I lose my patience and pick up the phone. 

I have basically give you folks a very brief description of whats went on, I haven't touched on the things that have really bothered me in this whole ordeal.

It's unfortunate, I had several items that I planned on purchasing there in the next few months (orange amp, cab, and a few other items) that would have totalled in the thousands. 

Again, I want to re-iterate that I was more than happy with 2/3 of my transactions there. I grew up in a family business and was taught from as young as I can remember that the customer always comes first. I've seen my father lose thousands of dollars because someone was having a hard time and couldn't pay a bill etc.... I've also worked in an environment (call center) where their whole m.o. was to get the customer off the phone as quickly as possible and as cheaply as possible. Needless to say, this didn't match my morals, I didn't work there long. But, I feel that I understand the two extremes of the customer service scale, and I feel that I L.A. is on the wrong side of that scale. 

If anyone knows who I should talk to at the store, please let me know.

Thanks in advance for reading.


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## JSD's Guitar Shack (Feb 24, 2006)

nine said:


> Oh yeah, and just for your info, nearly every online place will swear up and down that they have what you've asked for in stock (even if it isn't). They want you to place the order and give them their money instead of finding it somewhere else.
> 
> It sucks, but that little "trick" seems to be par for the course. Then they just hope that they get it in stock before you get so ticked off by waiting that they lose you as a customer.


Thats not a fair statement. Don't lump all online sellers into this catagory, some of us actually care about customer service and doing right by our customers.

Hey fuel37, why isn't Paypal helping you out? You paid and didn't recieve, why wouldn't that be eligible? You could reverse the charge on your credit card but you'll probably have to give up your Paypal account after that.


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

JSD's Guitar Shack said:


> Thats not a fair statement. Don't lump all online sellers into this catagory, some of us actually care about customer service and doing right by our customers.
> 
> Hey fuel37, why isn't Paypal helping you out? You paid and didn't recieve, why wouldn't that be eligible? You could reverse the charge on your credit card but you'll probably have to give up your Paypal account after that.


I agree, I've dealt with many many great shops online in the last few years.... this is the first real problem I've had. 

I tried to open a dispute with paypal and it come up saying that this transaction is not eligible for dispute. 

Some quotes from paypalsucks.com:



> According to PayPal accepting their ToS (Terms of Service) in effect means you waive your rights to credit card consumer protection laws if you want to use their service, and that you may not issue a chargeback for unauthorized use of your credit card and PayPal account, or if you do, then they have the right to limit your account.


I don't want my account locked, then I can't buy anywhere online.



> If you are a bona fide, up-standing individual with hundreds of successful transactions, but someone pays you with a stolen credit card, your account (by PayPal's own admission) is immediately flagged as being "criminal behavior" and any money in that account is confiscated. If a customer "disputes" the charge, same thing happens. (See email above.) PayPal claims that they will fight chargebacks, but read this before you fall for that one.


This is sort of appealing but, I'm not out to cause these guys any harm. I just want what I ordered. Or for them to tell me that it's gone, get over it.


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

BTW: JSD.... you'll see me as a customer in the future.... we've emailed before and I was very impressive by the way I was treated even though I was only tire kicking.


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## jcon (Apr 28, 2006)

fuel37, hope your situation gets cleared up soon.
I have to agree with some of the others here regarding La Music and their online inventory - it's a mess! Sometime last year I was looking at getting an Epi Elitist LP from them. Their website showed they had one in stock so I went down to the store to check it out. SURPRISE, not in stock! One sales guy told me it was sold the week before and another explained the stock on their website just means in stock at "a warehouse", not necessarily their warehouse - now that's just silly!
On the other hand, I bought a Hercules guitar stand from them, got it home only to find it was broken. Went back the next day and they didn't even open the box or ask to see a receipt, just told me to grab another.
Them not having the Epi LP was a blessing too. Ended up buying a custom Tokai Love Rock from JSD - what a sweet axe!


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## danbo (Nov 27, 2006)

MARIO is the owner..see him.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

JSD's Guitar Shack said:


> Thats not a fair statement. Don't lump all online sellers into this catagory, some of us actually care about customer service and doing right by our customers.


Hey man, that's fantastic that you care, but I stand by my statement. I've heard of so many instances of people getting caught on that little trick that it really seems to be the standard. I've had it happen to me as well. 

Again, though- that's fantastic that you try to avoid that. I certainly wasn't trying to include you personally in my statement.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

Fuel37, for one, most of the info on that Paypalsucks site is eons old. And secondly, you can certainly get your CC company to reverse the charges. I had a guy screw me on eBay and neither eBay nor Paypal would help me out, despite him turning around and selling the SAME guitar neck a while later. They just didn't care. I called up Visa and they got my money back. You can do the same and if you're tired of dealing with LA Music, I suggest that you call tomorrow and get the process started.


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

I was going to get some pickups / pedals from them, I e-mailed them to ask a couple questions and still haven't got a response... that was 3 months ago, haha. After a week of waiting for their reply I just went to Steve's and bought them... about an hour drive from my house, but it was worth it. The price was even cheaper than LA's.

I know I'm never going to buy from LA... they don't reply to my e-mails, they don't get my money. That simple, lol. 

Good luck, hopefully it all gets worked out.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

JSD's Guitar Shack said:


> Hey fuel37, why isn't Paypal helping you out? You paid and didn't recieve, why wouldn't that be eligible? You could reverse the charge on your credit card but you'll probably have to give up your Paypal account after that.


I would take a guess that's it's because the item was delivered. Just to the wrong address. But the correct address wasn't on the package which totally goes back to LA Music as the root of the problem. In Canada Post's system it will show up as a confirmed delivery. I think you'd have to rely on the person who received to be honest and return to sender. And you probably can't count on that.


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

it was shipped to an address that doesn't exist. 

I live at 40 some ave #14, it was sent to 40 some ave.

so, Canada post had no right to deliver to an address that does not exist (numbers start at 1-22, there is no sup address or drop address, we actually went to the other buildings and walked around in case it was by one of the mail drops but, no dice). 

LA is saying that the number wasn't on my account but, I didn't add it and I got my other two orders with no prob. 

So Mario is my man eh . I may give him a call this afternoon. 

Thanks guys!


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

danbo said:


> Mario is the owner, I'd ask to speak/meet him.



...i agree. when all else fails, go right to the top. generally, the top guy cares about his company's rep in the marketplace.

-dh


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

sent an email to [email protected].... lets see if that works .


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## danbo (Nov 27, 2006)

Mario....905 271-0303......


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## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

I'd think that they should take a look at their name being trashed here and now with lots of people watching.

If that doesn't bother them nothing will.

I know I won't deal with them.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

> LA is saying that the number wasn't on my account but, I didn't add it and I got my other two orders with no prob.


I can't believe they are giving you any kind of hassle when you are a repeat customer. Telling you a load of crap like that is ridiculous. While Canada Post made an odd error, it's obvious that the root of the problem is L.A. Music not addressing a package correctly.

I am interested to see how the story turns out.


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## GP_Hawk (Feb 23, 2007)

Same here. They have had your money for far too long. If you owed them that money, the interest would be accumulating at a rapid rate. I'd add interest to the $300.xx they already owe you. 

I've been waiting 2 months for something to come in from them. They told me over the phone one time it was in. When I drove down there, they couldn't find it and started to tell me someone else had bought it. Still waiting for it to come in. You'd think they want to keep on customers that have the money to purchase, but it has rarely been the case in my situation. I've spent a lot of money elsewhere, but in the case of what I'm after right now, they WERE the only ones that had any in. One last chance and I will shop elsewhere for now on.

Hope all goes well for you.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I have had one shopping experience with them. I pre-ordered a pedal that had an arrival date posted on their site. It took a good 3 months for me to get that pedal. Whether it was the manufacturers delay or there's, they could have at least sent some kind of update on the situation.

I don't really get the site either. How come there is hardly any stock on it? I'd have to assume they have more stock in the store. Why isn't it posted?

I'd love to see a Canadian online store that actually had some stock.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> I'd love to see a Canadian online store that actually had some stock.


...locally, i think that capsule, 12th fret and songbird do a pretty credible job of keeping their web sites up to date with current stock.

-dh


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...locally, i think that capsule, 12th fret and songbird do a pretty credible job of keeping their web sites up to date with current stock.
> 
> -dh


Class Axe does a good job with amps and guitars, etc. they don't include pedals or accessories on their site, but they usually reply to e-mails within 24 hours. I almost always get my stuff from them and Steve's, with the exception of private sales of course.


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## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

http://www.boutiquetone.com/

He's a small high end shop with lots of nice pedals amps and guitars.

Anderson, Tyler, Trussart that sort of stuff.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...locally, i think that capsule, 12th fret and songbird do a pretty credible job of keeping their web sites up to date with current stock.
> 
> -dh


Ya but they carry pretty much exclusively higher end stuff. I know something like Musiciansfriend wouldn't be possible in Canada, but it would be nice to see something that had a decent amount of stock/brands.


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

well surprise surprise..... no response to my emails from the last few days. 

I'm going to give them until the end of the week as they told me they were still fighting with canada post.... but, if it's not resolved by then and I still don't get a response from the owner....I'll call.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

You should call today. You're well past the point where emails can straighten this situation out.


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

well.... i called the other day and let them know how unhappy i was... 

maybe i have too much maritimer in me but, i'd like to give them a chance to come through on their word. We'll compromise, if i haven't heard from them by the end of day today, I'll call them tomorow .


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

fuel37 said:


> well.... i called the other day and let them know how unhappy i was...
> 
> maybe i have too much maritimer in me but, i'd like to give them a chance to come through on their word. We'll compromise, if i haven't heard from them by the end of day today, I'll call them tomorow .



...letting them know how "unhappy" you are may not be the most effective way of accomplishing your goal.

number one: ask for their help. explain the situation as briefly as possible, then let them do ALL of the talking.

when dealing with situations like this, we often push too hard, putting the other person on the defensive and alienating him or her.

retailers are almost always _willing_ to help, given a chance. when you ask a simple question like "can you help me?", the first thing the other person thinks is "yes. yes, i can."

at that point you need to let them steer the conversation.

another tactic is to ask what they would do if it was them instead of you.

finally, be polite and professional, but very, very persistent.

-dh


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## Coustfan'01 (Sep 27, 2006)

david henman said:


> finally, be polite and professional, but very, very persistent.
> 
> 
> *And spank them*
> -dh



I fixed it for you :tongue:


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## danbo (Nov 27, 2006)

Most "Maritimers" would've kicked the doors in by now! :food-smiley-004: 

I think you should go see "the Man" in person & get it resolved peaceful-like.evilGuitar:


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

danbo said:


> I think you should go see "the Man" in person & get it resolved peaceful-like.evilGuitar:


A "Crossroads" style guitar-off? If so, I want to videotape it. :tongue:


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Coustfan'01 said:


> I fixed it for you :tongue:


...i'm in, but it will cost ya.

i'm a high class broad, dontcha know!

-dh


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

danbo said:


> Most "Maritimers" would've kicked the doors in by now! :food-smiley-004:


...nah, just cape bretoners.

:tongue: 

-dh


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

well.... if I know'd the road to toronta bye's, i'd be der right quick. 

me nerve is rubbed right red raw der now.

haven't been able to get ahold of this mario dude at the store.... trying to be persistent.... and there'll be no guitar-off to resolve the situation, i want my stuff .


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## FrogRick12 (Feb 21, 2006)

Another way to get Mario's attention is to go to the manufacturer or distributor of the pedal you bought and complain to them.

I'm in that end of the business and believe me, we hate to hear about customer unhappiness if it's connected to our product!


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## Arc Angel (Mar 9, 2007)

Never ordered from or visited the store (I assume they have a retail operation) but I always thought it odd they had such a wide range in stock. For instance, the Washburn Nuno N Series (N4). No other Canadian retailer stocks them and they're special order items from the distributor. Low and behold "in stock" at LaMusic. Now I wonder ....


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## danbo (Nov 27, 2006)

Any news yet, Fuel?


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

deleted these comments as they were made out of frustration and don't reflect what I actually think.


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

I was looking through my PayPal activity and I did order something from them, my mistake in my last post... it was a pack of Dunlop Jazz III's, I had a little bit of cash left over after getting some t-shirts from AllPosters.com, nothing that could buy anything big, lol.

That was on April 7th... so should have been shipped on the 9th (first business day)... that was 2 weeks ago... a pack picks takes that long? What the hell? Good thing it wasn't an emergency eh?


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## Fragile Man (Apr 23, 2007)

I recently had an incident using Paypal when I hadn't received the product. I contacted Paypal and explained the situation and they wanted me to continue to try to resolve the issue with the vendor but had made note and was to contact them if I couldn't get resolve. Mastercard was very helpful and was prepared to reverse the transaction once I had exhausted my attempts to get the vendor to make things right, they were to either make a refund or ship the product. I contacted the vendor and explained nicely that if either wasn't done that i would continue with the "conflict resolution" that I had already initated. Fortunately for me, I received the product within a matter of days.
In your situation, I would call your credit card company IMMEDIATELY and explain the situation to get the process started, then let LA Music know what your next step is (to reverse the transaction) and see if that doesn't help to get resolve.

Good Luck, I can't wait to hear how you make out. Depending on how LA Music handles this will determine any future purchases from alot of would be buyers.


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

I e-mailed LA and actually got a response (unlike the previous times I e-mailed them about other products). I also included a link to this thread to hopefully help your situation too. Here's the reply I got:

_Thanks Josh, I appreciate seeing that. Your picks are on the way - If you'd like to sub for something that's ready to ship immediately, let me know._

On the way? So they haven't even been shipped yet... correct me if I'm wrong, but what does their site say: http://lamusic.ca/default.asp?szNav=Product&PID=17070

AVAILABILITY: In stock... 

When they don't have something, they always have it says "3-5 days" or however long it takes. Luckily, I can wait because it's only picks, but that kind of makes me question the availablity of other products on their site.

Luckily there's quite a few shops around me, so if I need something I just go shop there, but jeez... that kind of sucks for people that don't have transportation or any shops close to them. I'll stick to Guitars Canada's FS section and Steve's Music, lol!


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

guys, 

this post isn't achieving what I wanted it to. I didn't mean to move any business away from la. I have emailed the admin and asked him to delete. 

I've been in contact with LA music in the last hour and we are working towards a resolution that will make us both happy. I don't wish to discuss the details but, I assure you that I am much more happy with the response I just got and feel bad for some of the things I've said in this post. Feel free to carry it on without me but, I will not be involved.


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## Arc Angel (Mar 9, 2007)

Why should this post be deleted? It should stay as a public service warning.

It seems that you were supported in your quest by members here and now that you have a resolution, you want it deleted?

Doesn't make much sense. Facts are that in-stock should mean in stock. Not, let's take your money, make you wait, and be unresponsive until you raise a public stink.

Very, very, very poor business practice IMO.


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

I appreciate the support. But, the first line in my last post states that the post is not achieving the result I wanted.... it actually had quite the opposite effect with the guys at L.A. 

Your all welcome to continue the thread on your own. L.A. has informed me that they are looking to offer other shipping options aside from Canada Post. The problem I am having is really a Canada Post issue. I was just unhappy with the way the shop was handling it but they have in my eyes, rectified that. Again, I do not wish to discuss the details of this in public forum. 

I agree, that if your going to run an online business, your website should be tied with your other systems to monitor stock. I program these kinds of sites for a living and anything that isn't able to accurately track stock, either shows, call for up to date stock information or something to that effect.


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

+1 to that, it shouldn't be deleted. It should stay as a "buyer beware" kind of thing... so it doesn't really take business from them, just a warning that it COULD happen and that you should e-mail ahead of time before ordering. Sort of the same purpose as the buyer / seller feedback thread in the FS section, you know?

I know I would have killed for a thread like this for a few other sites I've bought from... my first online buy was from a poster website and I couldn't find ANY info about people who have bought from it so I was completely paranoid that entire week it took to come, haha.


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

I think maybe a new thread stating buyer beware about the stock.

I just don't want my name on it. I basically came to realize that, these guys have been working their asses off trying to help me... and I turn around and call them incompetent on a public forum. 

Feel free to start that new post, but my conscience will feel better if this gets removed.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

*Removing threads and posts*

Our policy is not to remove threads and posts once made. I have read through this one and it explains to the reader how it all went down. I can close the thread but would like to stay away from deleting things that meet the rules and regulations. We started out the forum allowing members to delete their own threads and posts. This resulted in a disgruntled member deleting a whole whack of threads on us, and we lost a ton of info.

I will, on direction change the name of this thread, this time. So that this business does not get the hits.


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## Rumble_b (Feb 14, 2006)

Well I hope it a gets fixed for you. In my opinion they are not working their butts off to fix this. I know I don't know all the details, but at my work we ship a lot of product everyday. When Canada post screws up we fix it for the customer right away and then deal with post ourselves.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

Sounds like everyone learned a lesson from this thread.


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

Rumble_b said:


> Well I hope it a gets fixed for you. In my opinion they are not working their butts off to fix this. I know I don't know all the details, but at my work we ship a lot of product everyday. When Canada post screws up we fix it for the customer right away and then deal with post ourselves.


any company I have ever had a problem with, this was the case. To me, my order was $250.... if there are two guys there working their butts off to fix this, they likely would have saved money by just re-shipping my product. 

Anyways, I have a feeling things will be worked out shortly.


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## Rumble_b (Feb 14, 2006)

fuel37 said:


> if there are two guys there working their butts off to fix this, they likely would have saved money by just re-shipping my product.


Exactly! In the end the company will not being paying people to argue with post and the customer will be happy. Happy customers mean more money coming in. I've made claims with post before at work and lost. But so what, yeah I lost some money but I made my customer happy and I get my money back at some point because that customer will order again, and so will his friends.


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## Fragile Man (Apr 23, 2007)

fuel37 you sound like a nice guy. And it's nice that you are concerned about the store's reputation. If the people you dealt with were as concerned, you never would have had to get to the point where you were frustrated enough to post. 
I wouldn't feel guilty if I were you, they have a responsibility to look after the customer.
Someone posted that in their own business they would satisfy the customer first and deal with Canada Post themselves...now that's the way to look after your customer.
The owner of the business should ensure that his employees understand that the customer comes first, he will then reap many rewards for that kind of policy.
Also, I don't believe that they were working their asses of for you, but I bet they are now. You have taught them a valuable lesson. The power of the consumer!

Glad it is working out for you,

Fragile Man


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I agree with Fragile. I don't think they should be 'let off the hook'. Things might be getting looked after now, but they shouldn't have got this far in the first place. Ya Canada Post made an error, but LA Music's errors caused the problem in the first place. And the fact that it took them that long to resolve the problem is ridiculous.

Threads like this SHOULD be available. Especially on a Canadian music forum like this. WHen it comes to online retailers, places like this are one of the few places we can get info on their service.


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

Fragile Man said:


> fuel37 you sound like a nice guy.


Thanks 



Fragile Man said:


> And it's nice that you are concerned about the store's reputation. If the people you dealt with were as concerned, you never would have had to get to the point where you were frustrated enough to post.
> I wouldn't feel guilty if I were you, they have a responsibility to look after the customer.


It bothers me that I upset the guys at the store. I agree that they need to shape up when it comes to dealing with problems though. 



Fragile Man said:


> The owner of the business should ensure that his employees understand that the customer comes first, he will then reap many rewards for that kind of policy.


Unfortunately, I'm not sure this policy will be made priority by the store, i'd say the best we can hope for is to deal with people who work there that have the good sense to handle their customers this way. The owner doesn't even recieve his own email, to me, as an upset customer who emailed the owner of a store, even if someone else is answering his email, mine should have been forwarded on to him as i had a valid issue. It's like the police policing the police.... doesn't work.


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## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

I've read the whole thing. The store dropped the ball, got kicked in the head and cried foul, and *now *are working their ass off.

It should have been done earlier, they messed up. 

Don't feel any grief for them whining about being badly treated. You were the one that was done wrong Fuel.

They deserved this and will have to work hard to build back customer trust.

I don't think that this type of thread should be deleted.

Let the sellers know we customers talk to each other.

They'll govern their business accordingly.


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## god9 (Jan 6, 2007)

I'm going to order a guitar from LAMusic today, it says its in stock, but everywhere else, I mean EVERYWHERE its out of stock. 

I hope I don't get screwed over like you did.


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## Fragile Man (Apr 23, 2007)

You should call the store first and have them verify that it is in stock before ordering.

Good Luck


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## Metal#J# (Jan 1, 2007)

david henman said:


> ...locally, i think that capsule, 12th fret and songbird do a pretty credible job of keeping their web sites up to date with current stock.
> 
> -dh


I once drove 400km one way to go pick up a set of Phase II ebony tuners for my PRS at the 12th Fret. I called before I left to confirm. Turns out, when I got there, they were phase 1 winged tuners. I got no appology and they didn't even offer to order the right tuners. That's just 1 of 3 terrible experiences I've had with those guys! Credible they are NOT!!!


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## mario (Feb 18, 2006)

Fragile Man said:


> You should call the store first and have them verify that it is in stock before ordering.
> 
> Good Luck


+1 on that. After everything I have read in this thread, I would be very wary of ordering anything from these guys. Good Luck!


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## axestronomer (Mar 1, 2007)

I called the store a couple of months ago looking for an F spaced fred Dimarzio pickup. They told me they didn't have one in stock but would be able to get one in in a couple of days so I ordered it up. Sure enough ten days later it showed up at my door. I would be willing to deal with them again but would always phone ahead to confirm the availability.

:food-smiley-004:


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

god9 said:


> I'm going to order a guitar from LAMusic today, it says its in stock, but everywhere else, I mean EVERYWHERE its out of stock.
> 
> I hope I don't get screwed over like you did.


:confused-smiley-010 

Let us know when (if?) you get it.


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## god9 (Jan 6, 2007)

Stores closed today so I guess I'll have to hold off on my phone call and order. But I will let you all know how it goes. If you're curious, this is the guitar I'm going to order:

http://lamusic.ca/default.asp?szNav=Product&PID=17702#

Check any US website out and they're all out of stock until late May, and even some other Canadian websites I checked they're all out aswell.


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## Arc Angel (Mar 9, 2007)

Metal#J# said:


> I once drove 400km one way to go pick up a set of Phase II ebony tuners for my PRS at the 12th Fret. I called before I left to confirm. Turns out, when I got there, they were phase 1 winged tuners. I got no appology and they didn't even offer to order the right tuners. That's just 1 of 3 terrible experiences I've had with those guys! Credible they are NOT!!!


Sorry to hear about your bad experience but to say that they aren't credible is simply wrong. I'd trust them over any other shop in Canada. Especially if I was in the market for a very high end electric, acoustic or classical/flamenco. I've never had a problem.


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

well...got a call from la yesterday with a new tracking number. it appears my order is en route... yay!

Hopefully Canada Post doesn't pull something stupid like they did last time.


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

I got an e-mail saying they shipped my picks on Friday, received them today. So I guess they're nice and fast, just have to call or e-mail them to make sure the product is in stock rather than go by their website next time.


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## god9 (Jan 6, 2007)

Finally got around to calling LA today, they said they had 1 in stock but sold it and never changed the website. The dude said hopefully in 7-10 days it'll be in stock, so I guess I'll have to wait til then to let you guys know.


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## god9 (Jan 6, 2007)

Called yesterday, the guy said the 2 employees working guitars were busy at that moment, but was "absolutely sure" that he had some in stock. I went ahead and ordered online.

Makes me think I should have waited and talked to one of those people in Guitars. But, hopefully all goes well.


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## bogoboy (May 21, 2006)

*Ordering online*

I just ordered a set of Lollar pickups from Boutique Tone in Montreal (actually a store not just a mail-order place) and the stuff arrived the next day! I live near the city of Montreal but the thought of driving down there, finding and paying for parking etc., it was easier to just have them ship it to me.

bogoboy


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

Just to give you guys an update.... I did get my dd-20.... I'm still waiting on part of my order though and I haven't gotten an email response to my last 3 emails.... bah


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

Well, called the store a couple of times and talked to the guy I was dealing with there.... 

The first time he apologized and said he'd refund my money... second time offered to refund my money again (these calls were almost a month apart, and the last call was several weeks ago so, there's been ample time to login to payment and send me my money back). I was also asked why I would buy and amp cover through their store instead of getting one on ebay.... lets just say, I was a little baffled by that statement. 

I've more or less given up on getting my merchandise, I think there is obviously some resentment from them that I made this post in the first place. I got several emails from them regarding it at the time basically telling me I had no right to complain and that I shouldn't be voicing my opinions on a public forum, they truly made me feel bad for posting this and made up some bullshit excuses about why i wasn't being looked after. Anyways, from what I understand, I was dealing with the guy that runs the online division, so, to anyone out there reading this.... I wouldn't expect a pleasant experience if anything happens with your order. They really don't seem to care.


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## Rumble_b (Feb 14, 2006)

Note to self-stay away!!! I wont be dealing with them at all. Not just because of the order problems but more by saying that you can't complain or post about it on here. Thats just stupid, they have no right trying to control what you say or who you say it to. **** them!!


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

Yup, probably not a bad idea to stay away... i was just looking through this forum and this thread has the 4th highest views of any thread on the whole electric guitars forum.... almost 2500 views! that's probably at least 500 or 600 different people viewing that they've treated a customer this way over a $250 order.


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## danbo (Nov 27, 2006)

LA=Lousy Attitude :sport-smiley-002:


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

Well.... guess they must still be reading this post cause guess who just got his refund he's been waiting for!

Thanks LA!


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## searchin4signal (Sep 23, 2006)

Just looking at the first post of this thread again....it was made back in *APRIL* and fuel37 typed that he started this thread after a 2.5 month ordeal...that brings this back to *FEBRUARY* or thereabouts.....it is now *ALMOST OCTOBER*

....yikes... !


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## Rumble_b (Feb 14, 2006)

fuel37 said:


> Well.... guess they must still be reading this post cause guess who just got his refund he's been waiting for!
> 
> Thanks LA!


Well it is nice to see that they FINALLY came through, it was still to long and the comments made to you were not right. At least you(and us) can let this thread die and all take what we want from it.


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

Rumble_b said:


> Well it is nice to see that they FINALLY came through, it was still to long and the comments made to you were not right. At least you(and us) can let this thread die and all take what we want from it.


Yeah, I'm happy to finally not have to worry about them. I've been buying online for about 6 years now and this is by far the worst problem I've had. I don't see how there are a whole lot of conclusions to be taken from this thread... seems pretty black and white to me. They are probably a fine spot to go in and buy something but, I'd definitely think twice about buying online.


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## The Kicker Of Elves (Jul 20, 2006)

Rumble_b said:


> Note to self-stay away!!! I wont be dealing with them at all. Not just because of the order problems but more by saying that you can't complain or post about it on here. Thats just stupid, they have no right trying to control what you say or who you say it to. **** them!!


Ha, good luck in stopping you from posting about it...I'm tempted to gripe and complain just to pick a fight with them about it.

They seriously need to get their *[email protected]% together on the website.

If you don't have stock and won't for weeks:

a) don't have "In stock" beside each item
b) put some status updates on online orders..."Approved" for a month is not exactly clear.


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

Exactly!

Something that is bugging me.... I own an AC30... which I'm trying to sell.... Last fall, VOX was clearing off all their stock and had some huge discounts on the AC30... so LA lowered their price on their site to $1075... now, that discount is off.... Musiciansfriend is selling them for $1199 on their site.... every other site is back to the regular pricing but, I got a few emails when trying to sell my amp saying my pricing was too high and LA had them for $1075. grrrrr.... update your pricing guys... you have to be losing money if anyone actually does the purchase online, plus your ruining the resale value in Canada.


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

Just read this thread from the beginning, taking note of the dates.

As someone who worked on an order desk for a few years I think I have a good perspective on what happened. Enough that I would cheerfully bet beer on it!:smile:

You don't judge a store by the purchases that went through no problem. That's the way things are supposed to work!

No place is perfect. Mistakes happen. How the store handles mistakes tells you what they're REALLY like!

Usually order desks operate in one of two fashions with problems. Either whoever took your order in the first place is in charge of fixing it or it's given to an expediting department.

Often the initial order taker is either so busy with day to day work that he has trouble getting around to fixing your problem or he may just be lazy.

Expediting departments are usually "black holes". Companies don't want to take their best people "off the line" so they start trainees as expediters. It's like the supermarket where they put trainees on the express lanes and these tend to actually be the slowest!

The important thing in both cases is that if you don't get satisfaction in a reasonable length of time you contact someone higher up in management. Once it's hit the fan the person who is delaying your resolution is NEVER going to tell his boss he can't or hasn't handled it!

If the manager doesn't make it happen then you've got a bigger problem. At that point you should be doing every thing you can to get them moving. Why worry about pissing them off when you have nothing to lose? If you've been polite so far then you've given them as much chance as they deserve.

Most times the manager will thank you! It gives him a chance to keep from losing a customer and his company getting a bad rep. It's up to him to find out why there was so much trouble, whether it was a lazy rep, someone not trained well enough or someone to overloaded to keep up. That's HIS problem, not yours!

There is a term used in business:"FOB". This means "freight on board" and refers to the point in shipping where responsibility for shipping lies. Some companies specify "FOB OUR DOCK" in their terms. This means that once it leaves their dock they are no longer responsible and if the shipment is lost or delayed it's up to the customer to deal with the courier to resolve it.

"FOB YOUR DOCK" is an agreement where the seller agrees to keep ownership until it reaches your dock. If something goes wrong the seller has to make things good.

"Mr. Fuel" got confused with an initial mistake in the address from the shipper that was then compounded by Canada Post just leaving the parcel in the general vicinity with no unit number. He started getting "ping ponged" from the store to CP as to who was responsible.

Since the store was a retail operation if they cared anything about keeping a good reputation they should have immediately refunded or reshipped the order and took on CP themselves for the lost unit. Most people buying retail have no idea about shipping terms, especially musicians!:smile: They placed an order and they expected it to show up.

If the store didn't want to assume FOB responsibility they should have clearly stated so at the time of the order, in BIG letters so that there would be no misunderstanding! Canada Post is considered the least reliable courier out there. They are the cheapest but you get what you pay for. If a customer knew he was on the tick for a completed delivery he might have asked for UPS or someone like them instead.

Mr. Fuel allowed himself to be dodged when dealing with the order takers. I know from personal experience that it can be hard to make the extra time to fix a problem if you're busy as hell everyday but that isn't a good excuse. You can always go to your boss and tell him that you're overloaded. If he doesn't care then you should start looking for a new job before the bad rep smell sticks to you and no one else wants to hire you.

At a certain point being nice becomes a liability rather than an asset in these situations. It's true that if you start off being a grump you don't elicit much good will and motivation on the other end of the phone. However, if things had gone on for more than a week or two you need to get more firm.

On an order desk you tend to jump more for the nasty customers. They're scary! If a customer seems too nice you can often start taking him for granted. It becomes easy to say to yourself: "I can put him off till later, after I've taken care of the immediate pressures on me!" After a while "later" turns into habit and suddenly months have gone by.

Dealing with a music type store can make such problems even more likely. Usually the owner has far more experience as a musician than with running a store. 

I'm not blaming anyone. I'm just giving some inside perspective from my own experience that hopefully will be useful to others.

There's an old joke that fits:

"How do you get 50 Canadians out of your pool?"

"Just ask politely: 'Canadians! Would you please leave the pool?' "

:food-smiley-004:


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## fuel37 (Feb 19, 2006)

Wild Bill said:


> Since the store was a retail operation if they cared anything about keeping a good reputation they should have immediately refunded or reshipped the order and took on CP themselves for the lost unit. Most people buying retail have no idea about shipping terms, especially musicians!:smile: They placed an order and they expected it to show up.


I don't know this for sure, but, the guy I was dealing with at LA Music seemed to be running the online side of things as well as working on the floor there... so I'm guessing the overworked thing had a lot to do with this but, regardless... your online customers should be just as important as the guy standing at the counter (if their not, then you shouldn't be doing business online). 

Part of the problem was also me being to soft, for sure... I'm not an in your face type of guy and I gave them the benefit of the doubt for like 4 months before I got fed up. I did try to escalate the issue but, when your talking to the guy that runs things, not much higher up to go.... I did try emailing the owner but, he doesn't check his own email... the guy i was dealing with in the first place does. 

As far as I know, I didn't agree to do any dealing with the courier... in fact when i called them, they wouldn't even talk to me... it had to be done on the senders end.


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## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

*More the same*

I ordered a digital keyboard from them back in July, just got it this week: had to call the store every week and hassle some poor employee. Turns out that it's like some have already said, their online stock is not store stock, and they don't know any more about what "in stock" means than we do. They were good enough to upgrade my order to compensate for the wait time.


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## danbo (Nov 27, 2006)

The moral of the story to me is..Always shop in person.. :smilie_flagge17:


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## The Kicker Of Elves (Jul 20, 2006)

Well I finally just called and changed my order over the phone and now I have what I need.

Nice guy on the phone, I don't have any issues with them personally...their site just blows.


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## Arc Angel (Mar 9, 2007)

Rumble_b said:


> Note to self-stay away!!! I wont be dealing with them at all. Not just because of the order problems but more by saying that you can't complain or post about it on here. Thats just stupid, they have no right trying to control what you say or who you say it to. **** them!!


+1. Sounds like they want to screw customers quietly without the customer's ability to voice there displeasure publicly. Petty tyrants. Of course, a customer has a right to voice their displeasure (as long as its honest) in public. 

I'll be staying away as well. I always wondered how they could 'stock' so much gear (at least that's what they claim). Now I know. Maybe its take the customer's money, and then scramble to order from a distributor. Distributor is out of stock or on backorder? That becomes the customers problem.

Pretty shameful really.


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## Arc Angel (Mar 9, 2007)

danbo said:


> The moral of the story to me is..Always shop in person.. :smilie_flagge17:


Do they have a retail outlet?


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## danbo (Nov 27, 2006)

Yep! In Mississauga,On.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Arc Angel said:


> Do they have a retail outlet?


I *think* there is one in Brantford also...please confirm this if someone knows for sure... 

Dave


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## Kiggz (Jan 8, 2008)

danbo said:


> The moral of the story to me is..Always shop in person.. :smilie_flagge17:


That line sums up all the bullshit and complaints and shits rite on them. Dont buy from ANYWHERE unless your there yourself to test shit on amp or test the amp pedal ect. THEY EVEN LET YOU TEST PICKS DAMMIT...


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## parkhead (Aug 14, 2009)

greco said:


> I *think* there is one in Brantford also...please confirm this if someone knows for sure...
> 
> Dave


LA Music in Mississauga is actually La Scalla Music 

LA Music in Brantford is a totally different company run by wonderful people. 


p


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

it won't help resolve the situation here, but i would strongly recommend avoiding using Canada Post to ship anything more than a postcard.
Canada Post's customer service sucks. they have a lengthy and unfriendly process for customer loss-claims. and the limitations on their liability payout mean even if you do get a successful claim, you won't get much of your money back.

if you are shipping anything of value, i would recommend using a shipping company such as FedEX,UPS or DHL who will have a tracking number for any shipment, who will require a signature for delivery, who will insure an item for full value, who will provide customer service response in a reasonable time frame. and believe it or not, their rates are competitive with Canada Post/Purolator.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

six-string said:


> it won't help resolve the situation here, but i would strongly recommend avoiding using Canada Post to ship anything more than a postcard.
> Canada Post's customer service sucks. they have a lengthy and unfriendly process for customer loss-claims. and the limitations on their liability payout mean even if you do get a successful claim, you won't get much of your money back.
> 
> if you are shipping anything of value, i would recommend using a shipping company such as FedEX,UPS or DHL who will have a tracking number for any shipment, who will require a signature for delivery, who will insure an item for full value, who will provide customer service response in a reasonable time frame. and believe it or not, their rates are competitive with Canada Post/Purolator.


I have the exact opposite experience to this. Everytime I get something that's sent through FEDEX, UPS or DHL I get charged with brokerage fees. I have never had that problem with Canada Post/USPS. I lost a package once that I bought from Futureshop but that was taken care of and I got a replacement quickly. I in fact make sure when I buy online that they send it through either CP or USPS. That way I don't get these stupid brokerage fees these companies charge. We've had this discussion here before too and I know a lot of people have the same experience as I do. BTW, you can also track your packages with Canada Post and USPS.

Here's one of the discussions:
http://www.guitarscanada.com/Board/showthread.php?t=8572&highlight=charges


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## wolfbane2222 (Nov 23, 2009)

Well i am glad to see this post !!!
they sure won't get my thousands in cash that i am looking to spend very soon:sport-smiley-002::smilie_flagge17:


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Chito said:


> I have the exact opposite experience to this. Everytime I get something that's sent through FEDEX, UPS or DHL I get charged with brokerage fees. I have never had that problem with Canada Post/USPS. I lost a package once that I bought from Futureshop but that was taken care of and I got a replacement quickly. I in fact make sure when I buy online that they send it through either CP or USPS. That way I don't get these stupid brokerage fees these companies charge. We've had this discussion here before too and I know a lot of people have the same experience as I do. BTW, you can also track your packages with Canada Post and USPS.
> 
> Here's one of the discussions:
> http://www.guitarscanada.com/Board/showthread.php?t=8572&highlight=charges


Ya I gotta agree. The only people who have ever damaged items on me are UPS and Fedex. UPS managed to crush an amp I bought. Canada Post has never damaged an item on me, and I have used them a LOT.

Fedex's prices have become a lot more competitive lately. And if you buy through a place that includes the brokerage/taxes in the shipping you will have no surprises. But I am still leery of using them because of them damaging past items.

By the way, isn't this thread like 2 years old lol?


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

Chito said:


> I have the exact opposite experience to this. Everytime I get something that's sent through FEDEX, UPS or DHL I get charged with brokerage fees. I have never had that problem with Canada Post/USPS. I lost a package once that I bought from Futureshop but that was taken care of and I got a replacement quickly. I in fact make sure when I buy online that they send it through either CP or USPS. That way I don't get these stupid brokerage fees these companies charge. We've had this discussion here before too and I know a lot of people have the same experience as I do. BTW, you can also track your packages with Canada Post and USPS.
> 
> Here's one of the discussions:
> http://www.guitarscanada.com/Board/showthread.php?t=8572&highlight=charges



not to argue but your points are a bit confusing here.
if you were buying from Future shop that is a Canadian company and so no brokerage fees would apply. Brokerage fees are applied to goods crossing the border. and Canada Post also applies a fee to all international shipments too. although it is usually less than FedEx's current $10.50 rate. UPS still charges a % of the total value of the shipment as does DHL, last i heard. i agree brokerage fees suck. but you can avoid paying them by agreeing to brokerage the item yourself. which simply means you go to your nearest Canada Customs office with the paperwork and pay the GST and PST directly.
If the guitar or equipment is made in Mexico or USA it is duty free under NAFTA. 

i guess you've been lucky cause i have had registered shipments sent through Canada Post lost or stolen in the mail on several occasions. These shipments just "disappeared" off the Canada Post tracking system with no explanation. Canada Post refused to even commence an investigation for 30 days and then took another 90 days to tell me that could not find the shipments, and they would pay out only a maximum amount against their "insurance" minus their deductible of course.

on the other hand, FedEx and UPS have delivered, to my door on time and in perfect condition every time.


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## bscott (Mar 3, 2008)

This is a LONG discussion. This and based on some other LA Music dissatisfaction threads There is no way I would order anything from them online. In person - perhaps but definitely not online. If they could beat Steve's and L&M in store prices I would confirm that they had what I wanted and then pick it up in person.

Brian


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