# Gig or VH Concert?



## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

Acckkk... I really want to go see VH, have a buddy who got tickets, but they moved the Calgary show back a few days to FRI Dec 7th. Dammitt.. I'm booked for a pub gig that night. Maybe I could re-book...

What should I do?


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

VH all the way man... who knows when you'll have a chance to see 'em again.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

VH all the way. Nothing better than a Friday night concert for a good time!


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## noobcake (Mar 8, 2006)

unless your gig's like really important, I'd definitely go for the VH concert, hell I wish I could go too, but I just don't have the time...


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Van Halen all the way man. All previous posts nail it!
This is a VH concert you should not miss!


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2007)

You couldn't PAY me to attend a VH concert.... 

But if I were you, I'd try to find one of the other entertainers that plays the same venue and see if someone will swap dates with you.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Robboman said:


> Acckkk... I really want to go see VH, have a buddy who got tickets, but they moved the Calgary show back a few days to FRI Dec 7th. Dammitt.. I'm booked for a pub gig that night. Maybe I could re-book...
> 
> What should I do?


I'm horrified to see people recommending going to a show over PLAYING a show.

Un freaking believeable.


Play the gig. Even the lowliest gig on the planet is more important than going to a concert IMO.


hello? The show must......


can you dig it?:rockon2:


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Even the lowliest gig on the planet is more important than going to a concert IMO.


Not when it's Van Halen! :rockon2::bow::rockon2:

Haha.

I would give a kidney to see EVH... so if anyone out there is interested... lofu


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Thare are a lot of bands and solo artists I'd love to see too, but it's sort of a code of honour.

I'd play.:rockon:


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2007)

Code schmode.....

It won't be the end of the world if you can the gig and go see VH......


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Milkman said:


> I'm horrified to see people recommending going to a show over PLAYING a show.
> 
> Un freaking believeable.
> 
> ...


yah thats messed up- now i remember why i dont play in bands with other people:smile: id put a band PRACTICE, let alone a gig, before any concert- and thats why i never saw stevie ray vaughn. kinda makes me sick in my stomach just thinking about it- the world is full of fall down people. i doubt eddie van halen, or any other successful musician has/had this kind of attitude.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I'm horrified to see people recommending going to a show over PLAYING a show.
> 
> Un freaking believeable.
> 
> ...


 Hey, if its what you do for a living, I can understand that the gig is more important, but the reality is, the most important thing in life is what ever satisfies the individual, so its very freaking believable!
That being said, if going to the concert meant letting down the band, I would do the gig. I got the impression he may be able to reschedule the gig?


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2007)

Paul said:


> How much is your word worth to you?


That about says it all IMO.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Paul said:


> My word is worth a lot to me.
> 
> How much is your word worth to you?


 My word is only worth something to my family and friends! After that, I don't give a crap what anyone thinks about my word. 

I am playing a gig this Saturday. We approached the bar owner to play on this particular Saturday for a specific reason. He had a band previously booked. We promised him a full house. He called us the next day to say he rescheduled the other band in favor of us.

Point of the story, don't worry about the bar owner because he will do whats best for him if the situation arises.


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## Mr. David Severson (Feb 3, 2006)

I had an offer to play but Vh was on that date..I turned the gig down. I play a lot and need a break anyways.:rockon2:


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Thare are a lot of bands and solo artists I'd love to see too, but it's sort of a code of honour.
> 
> I'd play.:rockon:


exactly, honour and ethics. A commitment made is a commitment kept. If it was a family emergency or sickness, that's one thing, but the gig should come first.


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2007)

" I've re-read the terms and conditions on the AFM Live Performance Contract for Canada"

Holy take-it-way-too-seriously Batman....

Robboman.... Don't let the tightarses scare you or delude you.... If you really want to go to the concert, try as hard as you can to fill someone in to your gig.... Hopefully someone you can even swap gig dates with.

It's a pub gig... Not the end of the world.... 

I've swapped pub gig dates plenty of times. For myself (So I can go do something else) or as favours to fellow musicians who wanted/needed to go do something else.

"He made the gig."
Bully for him... I read that as a prime example of someone who's priorities are a total mess. Maybe his marriage would have 'made it' had he not been such a d!ck.

" My word is only worth something to my family and friends!"
Hear FN hear!


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Ripper said:


> exactly, honour and ethics. A commitment made is a commitment kept. If it was a family emergency or sickness, that's one thing, but the gig should come first.



...absolutely! a gig never, ever gets cancelled except under the most extreme circumstances.

i gave up an opportunity to see jeff beck (for free!!!) at massey hall a few years ago, rather than cancel a gig. 

-dh


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Paul said:


> That's kinda sad. I try hard to make sure that my word is good, no matter who is or isn't listening.


 If your word is so important to you, why do you require a contract from the bar owner? Why not take his word for it that he'll pay you? Is his word not as good as yours?


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2007)

"I take what I do very seriously"
Bully for you. That, and a buck-fifty will get you a small cup of lousy coffee... Expecting that the whole world has to, aught to, should behave exactly like you would is delusional. 

"The part of the contract that applies is this:"
I could care less about your 'contract', but that would require effort.

It's most telling that the OP hasn't come back to this thread.

"That's a road I choose to not travel"
Your loss, mate.


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2007)

"Never not play"

Which may be fine if you're a full time, professional bassist.... How many of those are there in the world?

We don't know that the OP doesn't do this as a hobby... or as a side-line....


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

jroberts said:


> So the only people who can trust or rely on you are your family and friends?
> 
> That doesn't surprise me.


As negative as you seem to make that sound, they are the only ones that really matter to me. 

I don't give a crap if anyone agrees with my opinion about telling the OP to skip the gig. I question why my opinion and others who share the same opinion and have a life outside of *"the band" *are judged as unethical, and not trustworthy? 

People have different priorities so get off your high horses and stop judging people just because you don't agree with their priorities. 

Note: Final sentence not directed at jroberts.


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2007)

"People have different priorities so get off your high horses"
Hear FKN hear!!! 

Bartender, put one of whatever he's having on my tab would ya!


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

Hey
i pride my self on keeping my word.......sometimes it's not possible....then an appology and/or explaination is in order..............that said...............who knows..........VH may turn around and not do the concert.........they get cancelled and/or rescheduled all the time.......
cheers
RIFF


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

If it's like any other Calgary bar gig, you barelly make enough money to make it worth your while. You do it because you enjoy it, the bar owner is the only one that comes out ahead.

Do what you'll enjoy more, as long as the band mates agree. The bar owner has more than enough time to find a replacement, not like it's hard for find a band willing to work for cheap in this city.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

jroberts said:


> It all comes down to...
> 
> 
> 2. Whether you are trying to build or maintain a reputation for being reliable, dependable and available. I'm loathe to turn down a show, much less cancel a show, at least in part because I want to make sure that all the major talent buyers in town know that I am 100% reliable and I will always follow through on my commitments.


 In the end, the bar owner only cares how much money he makes off your performance. You can be 100% reliable but if you don't bring in the crowd, see ya later Mr. Reliable. :wave:

I'd much rather have a reputation for bringing in huge crowds and the bar owner paying extra just for the band showing up! Yeah, I'm dreaming! kjdr


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

4 pages and counting... is there a post-quantity contest or something? :banana:

Thanks for all the input. I never said I would cancel, break a committment, "skip" or "blow off the gig". Nor would I ever go back on "my word" or break any "code of honour". Aye Carumba! You guys are welcome to debate these principals anyway, (I'll join you later), but they don't apply to my situation at all.

For the record, since I failed to elaborate in my OP:


This pub has local bands every weekend, we've been in maybe a dozen times over the past 2 or 3 years. 

The manager knows us and likes us.

They have several other regular bands, many more would probably love a shot at getting in. It's not exactly A circuit, but it's not one of those "lowly" gigs either. It's actually kind of sought after.
 
The date in question is 6 weeks away.
Conclusion? Should be simple to trade weekends with another band given that kind of lead time. Pub won't mind, I'll get to see VH and a few weeks later I'll be back in the pub, trying like an idiot to pull off EVH tapping and whammy dives throughout every solo. 

Of course, if I CAN'T find a sub band for some reason, I'll do the gig. 

If you play on the bar circuit for any length of time you'd know that these sorts of re-schedules happen all the time. No big deal. Dont do it constantly or cancel a day or two before a gig. The latter is totally unprofessional, yet I've lost count of the times I've been called on a Wed or Thurs to go play somewhere on Fri/Sat because some other band cancelled. 

As for debate on why you would want to attend a show vs play a gig, it all depends on the show. And the gig. And the player, for that matter. That high pedestal I used to place "gigs" on has come down a lot lower as I get older. Don't get me wrong, I still love playing, but when you gig as much as I do for as long as I have you tend to value nights off just as much. Especially when your first childhood guitar hero is in town :food-smiley-004: 

Lastly, none of this would be an issue for me if VH hadn't re-scheduled their Calgary show from Dec 11th to the 7th! Those bastards! They broke the code of honour! :banana:


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Robboman said:


> Conclusion? Should be simple to trade weekends with another band given that kind of lead time. Pub won't mind, I'll get to see VH and a few weeks later I'll be back in the pub, trying like an idiot to pull off EVH tapping and whammy dives throughout every solo.



Ha Ha! :food-smiley-004:


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## Guest (Oct 25, 2007)

"I've lost count of the times I've been called on a Wed or Thurs to go play somewhere on Fri/Sat because some other band cancelled."

I've lost count of the number of times I've picked up the phone at 9:30 PM and been asked "What are you doing tonight?" to which my response has been "Let me guess, playing music at your pub?" because some wanker has done a no-show, or 'called in sick' at the last moment (Sometimes because they found something on TV they'd rather watch)

Picked up a 10PM start gig last night.... at 5:30.... The regular guy was stuck in Boston and wasn't gonna make it back... I had a bucket of fun, a few beers and made a few bucks while I was at it.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

jroberts said:


> .........................


Man, Mr Hammond just kinda did a 180 there?? he he


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

ne1roc said:


> Hey, if its what you do for a living, I can understand that the gig is more important, but the reality is, the most important thing in life is what ever satisfies the individual, so its very freaking believable!
> That being said, if going to the concert meant letting down the band, I would do the gig. I got the impression he may be able to reschedule the gig?


Money has NOTHING to do with it in my opinion. It's a code of honour.


Everybody has their own standards. Mine dictate that being in the audience of a show is less important than playing a show.

If a gig is good enough to accept, it's good enough to play.

Being a pro or an amateur is not a factor.

I guess I'm just old school, but let's just say if you hired me to play a show or even to do sound, I'm going to be there.


The first time you pup out of a gig is the toughest. it gets easier after that.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Money has NOTHING to do with it in my opinion. It's a code of honour.
> 
> 
> Everybody has their own standards. Mine dictate that being in the audience of a show is less important than playing a show.
> ...



Are you married or have any kids? 
I guess you wouldn't ditch a gig to see your kids school play or football game even it was extremely important to them? 

If anybody really paid attention to the initail post, Dec. 7th is a way off and if cancelling a gig 47 days ahead of time is considered unreliable................. well screw them!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

ne1roc said:


> Are you married or have any kids?
> I guess you wouldn't ditch a gig to see your kids school play or football game even it was extremely important to them?
> 
> If anybody really paid attention to the initail post, Dec. 7th is a way off and if cancelling a gig 47 days ahead of time is considered unreliable................. well screw them!


I'm married and have four children and I would be doing them a disservice if I cancelled a gig to attend a sporting event. What kind of example would I be setting?

Here's a little FYI.

In thirty years of gigging I have never cancelled a gig.

In fifteen years of employment with my current company I have never taken a sick day, never arrived one minute late and never left a minute early.


I'm not expecting you to follow my standards. I'm just stating what they are.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I'm married and have four children and I would be doing them a disservice if I cancelled a gig to attend a sporting event. What kind of example would I be setting?


The example of a caring father?



Milkman said:


> In fifteen years of employment with my current company I have never taken a sick day, never arrived one minute late and never left a minute early.


Well, running my own business for the last 20 years, I don't know what being sick, or being late are? I can say that I haven't let down a customer or an employee ever.




Milkman said:


> I'm not expecting you to follow my standards. I'm just stating what they are.


 I don't follow standards that are lower then mine.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

jroberts said:


> Edit: What do you know?! If the public profiles are right, ne1roc is actually older than Paul, older then me and only 4 years younger than Milkman. From his posts, I had always assumed that ne1roc was a teenager! If that's not the case, I apologize.


No offense taken. 

I haven't gotten to where I am in life by trying to be a politically correct news anchorman type. I say what I believe, and if my viewpoint is regarded as immature or assinine(is that how you spellit).....................oh well.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

ne1roc said:


> The example of a caring father?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ne1roc let's not make this personal by bringing up fatherhood.

Thanks,
Jeff


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Paul said:


> The gig. You made a commitment. "Something better came along" isn't a good enough reason to blow off a gig.
> 
> It's tough enough for musicians to make a decent $$$ as it is. Anything that gives club owners ammunition to de-value our work even more is just counter productive.
> 
> That's just my opinion, but then again, you did ask.


I have to agree with this post. It's a commitment--and you'll learn more playing than watching. It will do more for you.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Robboman said:


> Acckkk... I really want to go see VH, have a buddy who got tickets, but they moved the Calgary show back a few days to FRI Dec 7th. Dammitt.. I'm booked for a pub gig that night. Maybe I could re-book...
> 
> What should I do?


It's got to be.......


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

ne1roc said:


> I don't follow standards that are lower then mine.



....and the clinton hammond award for smug proclamations goes to...!!!

-dh


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

ne1roc said:


> The example of a caring father?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL, wow, you're questioning my dedication as a father. Classy.


If my standards are lower than yours, why am I the one who would play the gig while you would be sitting in a seat at the VH concert?

Interesting.


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2007)

Yes... that is me. So what?

Are you really dumb enough to try to embarrass me with something -I- put on the internet???


I can understand why my level of self-confidence is intimidating to small people.... 

Definition of the word smug....
"1.contentedly confident of one's ability, superiority, or correctness"

It's funny (And a little bit sad) that you try to say it like it's a bad thing, because my confidence scares you....


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2007)

"_self-satisfied to an annoying degree"

_I'm not annoyed in the least.... Especially not so annoyed I feel the need to try to make lame attempts at Ad Hominem... 

Heh... Trying to embarrass ME? That's funny.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

ClintonHammond said:


> Yes... that is me. So what?
> Are you really dumb enough to try to embarrass me with something -I- put on the internet???
> *I can understand why my level of self-confidence is intimidating to small people.... *
> Definition of the word smug....
> ...




...look up the word "irony".

-dh


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2007)

"This message is hidden because *david henman* is on your ignore list."

Is something I never cease to enjoy reading on this forum

"off the original topic"
The OP has been answered, over and over.....


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2007)

Took me a lot of hours to make that thing.... 

Have worn it a couple of times on stage.... and once or twice as part of Halloween costumes... It usually wins a bunch of prizes.

I'll tell ya though, the next day, my LEGS KILL me! It's a hella workout!

LOL

Mostly now it just lays around in storage. One day I wanna redo it in stainless steel....


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

ClintonHammond said:


> Have worn it a couple of times on stage....


The poor back of you guitar has gotta take a beating.


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2007)

No no no.... With a guitar is not the only way I 'take the stage'

I sing... I dance... I act.... just another triple threat!

,-)


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Hey CH, you ever come across this guy in your travels?


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Hey CH, you ever come across this guy in your travels?


 
Are you sure that's a guy????

Now I've got to find those pictures of me in a kilt.....


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2007)

"you ever come across this guy in your travels?"
Nope


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## violation (Aug 20, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


>


I don't know what she told you but it was a 1 time thing... we made some bad decisions, she mentioned bondage and next thing you know I'm wearing a wig and she's holding a camera and a whip. 










:food-smiley-015:


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2007)

ClintonHammond said:


> I sing... I dance... I act.... just another triple threat!
> 
> ,-)


thought I recognized you...


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

ClintonHammond said:


> "This message is hidden because *david henman* is on your ignore list."
> Is something I never cease to enjoy reading on this forum.....



...its an honour!

:bow:

-dh


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2007)

I wasn't in Holy Grail.... but I've been paid to sing songs from Spamalot.

That was a BUCKET of fun, lemme tell ya


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## Michelle (Aug 21, 2006)

ClintonHammond said:


> Took me a lot of hours to make that thing....
> 
> ...


I can't imagine having the patience to do that, very cool, nice job! :wave:


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2007)

As with all piece work, you get into a 'zone' if you're lucky, and your mind wanders while your hands do the work, and before you know it, another 5000 rings have been added.


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## Steeler (Oct 31, 2007)

*Back to the original question...*

My word is my bond.... I would honor any commitments I made.

I already missed free seat at concerts I wanted to attend because I was booked.

When I discover someone who does not live by this code, I do my best to not deal with them.

There's nothing wrong with asking the venue for a change of date, but it's their call.


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

Oh yeah, sorry I forgot to update this! 

I went to VH and had my buddy Jim sub in for the guitar spot at the gig. He's an old friend that we know from way back, and his band happened to be off that night. He knows a lot of the same songs and was happy to be my stunt double for the night. After the concert I dropped into the pub for beers and caught the last set, it sounded just fine! 

Summary: 

VH rocked!
My band didn't have to give up gig
Jim picked up an extra paying night
Bar was happy. We re-booked them again for Jan 11/12
I played the Sat and had wayyy more fun than usual pretending I was Eddie.

I lost out on the Fri nite pay, but I was thinking I could deduct the price of my VH ticket as a business expense... training and development :banana:


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Wow! I'm confused did people hate eachother here? It's like a school ground! Now I know that will never ending! Age bring widsom but there's always a little kid in you who wants to argue he is the king! By the way, I'm on Milkman and jrobert side, I think you're better to have you words right with everyone! Maybe it's my hippie side but be great with everyone around and your life will be great! I never miss a gig 'cause I only made 3-4 in my young life, I don't play in a band since college, so maybe 6 years now. But I was a hockey player for more thant 13 years and I never miss a game or practice for something else! I said I will be there, so that what I will do! Maybe it's just me but with all that selfthinking people on that little planet I understand why there's war,crime and other bad stuff....I know it's a little big but I'm probably not that far. I won't say that because someone here said that I just care about himself he is like Bush or else but I think that people like Bush are selfthinking person! That's my humble opinion!


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

Ti-Ron said:


> Wow! I'm confused... QUOTE]


Me too!

Anyway, forgot to mention that Jim's band also plays that pub, managers know him and were OK with this whole thing up front. Everybody won for once!


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