# Counterfeit LPs - Check this out!



## Alex Csank (Jul 22, 2010)

Trade Tang has now gotten much better at counterfeiting the LP. I wish there was something that Gibson or the government could do to stop the sale of these! Here's just one example. Check it out: Les Traditional Gold Top on TradeTang.com


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

Geez, it's got a glossy finish. Nothing about what woods were used, nothing about pups, tuners, and other hardware. That's the first clue - the suspicious dearth of information. Just how have they gotten better at counterfeiting? Anyone who plunks down money on this, expecting a real Gibson LP - or hell, even a decently built copy - is probably a fool.


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## Stonesy (Oct 7, 2008)

Those pics are legit.
If you recieve a guitar from tradetang it will not be legit.


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## Alex Csank (Jul 22, 2010)

Maxer said:


> Geez, it's got a glossy finish. Nothing about what woods were used, nothing about pups, tuners, and other hardware. That's the first clue - the suspicious dearth of information. Just how have they gotten better at counterfeiting? Anyone who plunks down money on this, expecting a real Gibson LP - or hell, even a decently built copy - is probably a fool.


Agree with you on all points Maxer, but if you look at the guitar in the photos it is certainly a lot closer to 'looking' real than they used to be, which means that there will very likely be more suckers who buy them than ever. My feeling is that it is now virtually IMPOSSIBLE to buy a Gibson LP (and a few other nice guitars) without either having them looked at by a qualified expert, or by making sure they are purchased from a reputable dealer. So, the possibility of buying a nice LP on E-Bay without actually having somebody qualified check out the guitar has disappeared (or anywhere else online, unless it's local). 

To me, it is really more an issue about the 'used' buyer. If the original sucker buys one and then tries to sell it at a profit, that's where we will see prices in line with 'expected' pricing, and by the time the next sucker figures it out, he or she will be out plenty of dough on a fake.

I guess the right answer is really great for the reputable guitar dealers...they (and the Chinese shop) are the real winners here.

Stonesy: you are saying that the photos are of legit guitars?!?!?!


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## Stonesy (Oct 7, 2008)

That is what I said.
Maybe you can point out where I am incorrect, but I doubt it.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

It wouldn't surprise me if the pics are legit, although I'm certainly no expert to judge one way or another. I suppose it's just that it wouldn't be the first time a scam operation has depicted legitimate goods in an effort to lure in sucker buyers who think they're sniffing out some tremendous deal.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

Alex, about those secondary buyers who will likely continue to run across these 'deals' via Craigslist, Kijiji and eBay: as always, buyer beware. People who don't do their homework will be ripped off, period. First clue should be strangely low pricing, although that doesn't rule out a scammer attempting to sell a fake LP at blue book values for real LPs... I mean, the more you can take a customer for, the better your profit margin. People have to school themselves to know what questions to ask and to ask for as much documentation/proof as possible.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

A lot of sites, like that one use pictures of the real thing, and send you a counterfeit.
I've seen pictures that they stole from the original company's website.

And I've seen Craigslist & kijiji ads that use pictures the same way, and sometimes from sites like this one where we post our gear.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

The guitar in the pics is legit. The one you receive won't be.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

i'de say 90% of the time kids or who ever buys those, will see this guitar!..order it., and receive a totally different POS. getting Good at Copying something does'nt make it a Better Guitar. i've tried to repair quite a few of those POS. One a while back was ordered as a Gld Top..and client received a Black Beauty..LOL. I mean when you're 10 feet away it looks nice. but when you get it in your hands you go....OH HO....

A for Gibson..it can't do nothing basically. China is WAY to powerfull now to be stop. Difference with Japan is Japan's Goal was to make BEST quality Product, CHina does'nt care, they want to FLOOD the market with as many items as possible.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

it certainly looks like those photos are legitimate Gibson products, but they are just bait to lure in the niave. no one with any sense would really expect to buy an authentic Gibson Les Paul that normally retails for thousands of dollars, off some overseas internet site for a couple hundred bucks. 

what is interesting is that Gibson has factories and business dealings in China. the Epiphone brand is made almost exclusively in China. so Gibson is profiting from the Chinese economy too. that includes having factories that don't have to deal with unionized labour, no health & safety standards, no environmental standards, cheap materials and low-paid workers, no sales taxes etc.
it should come as no surprise that unscrupulous entrepeneurs would want to produce counterfeit copies of high-priced guitars. they do the same with jewelery, watches, dvds, cds, clothing, and electronic goods. why not guitars?
it is the price you pay for insisting on low cost goods. 
recently there were some threads here with folks crying about how Gibson's were "over-priced".
well fact is Gibson does make guitars that sell for $500 or less-they are Epiphones made in China.
if you want a Gibson built in the USA, it sells for a lot money, partly because it costs a lot more money to produce in the USA than in China. 
part of what has decimated the Canadian and USA economies over the recent past, has been that we no longer manufacture much because consumers all want Walmart prices. so businesses move to 3rd world countries where all costs are cheaper, regulations lax and quality is all a matter of perspective.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

I've been saying that for years and I couldn't have said it better.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

J S Moore said:


> I've been saying that for years and I couldn't have said it better.


Agreed...very well said *six-string*. 

Cheers

Dave


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## Alex Csank (Jul 22, 2010)

six-string said:


> ...recently there were some threads here with folks crying about how Gibson's were "over-priced". well fact is Gibson does make guitars that sell for $500 or less-they are Epiphones made in China. if you want a Gibson built in the USA, it sells for a lot money, partly because it costs a lot more money to produce in the USA than in China. part of what has decimated the Canadian and USA economies over the recent past, has been that we no longer manufacture much because consumers all want Walmart prices. so businesses move to 3rd world countries where all costs are cheaper, regulations lax and quality is all a matter of perspective.


1. I don't believe that MY posts in that other thread should be labeled as "crying". Gibsons ARE very 'over-priced' in my view.

2. Of course consumers want to pay lower prices...don't you?!?! It is a fact of life that North American manufacturing has decreased significantly in every sector and that has been going on since about the mid-Sixties when inexpensive, but high-quaity Japanese and German products began to become more popular. Consumer items like the VW Beetle and the cars from Toyota, Honda and others, as well as the radios, guitars, amps, clothing and plenty of other manufactured goods were far less expensive and usually of equal or sometimes even better quality than their North-American counterparts. This trend has continued and expanded with the rise of manufacturing in a plethora of 'emerging' nations, including China and is - in my opinion - unstoppable. But, perceived quality and name-brand recognition, combined with the all-too-human desire to purchase expensive stuff to 'show-off' mean that Rolex, Patek-Phillipe, Prada, Ferrari, Rolls Royce, BMW, Gibson, Fender, Martin and other highly-regarded manufacturers can and do stay in business, even with 'over-priced' goods. Oh, and please understand that I readily accept that Gibson and Fender (and others) produce their best guitars in the USA, and that they actually ARE usually much better than other less-expensive guitars. I have read posts here and in other guitar boards in which owners seem to be actually 'bragging' about how MUCH they paid for their guitars, like it's a contest that whoever dies with the most expensive toys wins. I'm sorry, but I have always found that contest and those who engage in it very shallow and vain. And you are most certainly welcome to 'flame' me for my probably unpopular opinion.

3. Honestly, I would have NO problem with Trade Tang and other companies producing 'copies', if only they wouldn't actually try to pass them off as 'the real thing'. That's the BIG issue here, not the production of guitars in China, S. Korea, Indonesia, Mexico, Taiwan, etc.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

Alex dear, its not “all about you”. Several members expressed their opinions that certain guitars were “over-priced”. 
The opinions I’ve expressed are just that –mine. 
whether you agree or not doesn't bother me in the least.

Personally, I have long ago learned that “lower prices” are not the be all and end all of consumer satisfaction. I am frequently willing to pay a premium for products and services for a variety of reasons that make sense to me. Some of those reasons include supporting businesses that treat their employees and customers fairly, supporting small and local businesses, supporting independent craftsmen, supporting businesses that try to be environmentally responsible. And mostly, I accept that buying quality products usually costs more money. But those are my choices and everyone is entitled to their own relative value system. 

as for your remarks about buying brand name goods, i don't disagree that conspicuous consumption is a phenomenon that usually involves ego gratification. you'll get no flaming here.

But here’s another angle about relative value.
I recently found this calculator that converts historical dollars into current value based on different economical measurements for which historical data exists.
So just for interest sake-

Assume a Gibson Les Paul retailed at roughly $250 US in 1952. 
What would that $250 be valued at in current dollars?
This calculator is in US currency.

Current data is only available till 2009. In 2009, the relative worth of $250.00 from 1952 is:

$2,020.00 using the Consumer Price Index 
$1,720.00 using the GDP deflator 
$3,160.00 using the unskilled wage 
$3,570.00 using the Production Worker Compensation 
$5,080.00 using the nominal GDP per capita 
$9,950.00 using the relative share of GDP 

Data for the consumer bundle is only available through 2008. 

What i think is interesting is that the current price range for most US made Les Pauls falls within those figures more or less. 

as for the Wang Chung clan or whoever they are, obviously counterfeiting is a criminal enterprise and is just as unstoppable as the emerging economies of the 3rd world.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

Identical guitar (right down to PLEK'd sticker) just showed up on Vancouver CL. Different pics though.

The other difference is that this seller is local and has been doing a lot of buying and selling over the last year or so.

CL pics:


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

I think anyone considering one of these counterfeits could save even more money by getting a hi res photo of a Les Paul, taking it to a good printer and getting a nice cardboard cut out made to hang on their wall. Cheaper, and you can still pretend you own a Gibson.

Seriously, if you want a Les Paul style guitar without having to pay Gibson prices, there are lots of decent guitars to choose from. Epi, Agile to name a couple. Companies that have a reputation to maintain, that put their own name on the headstock.

I still feel that counterfeits should be stopped by Customs, cut in half and thrown in the bin. And remember, they aren't just knocking off Gibsons, they are trying to steal your money on every brand.

And kiddies that think they can order one of these and sell them as real Gibsons, PRS, Fender, Epi etc don't seem to understand that is fraud.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

bobb said:


> Identical guitar (right down to PLEK'd sticker) just showed up on Vancouver CL. Different pics though.
> 
> The other difference is that this seller is local and has been doing a lot of buying and selling over the last year or so.


Is he selling it as a real Gibson? If so, report him to the police.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Alex Csank said:


> 2. Of course consumers want to pay lower prices...don't you?!?! It is a fact of life that North American manufacturing has decreased significantly in every sector and that has been going on since about the mid-Sixties when inexpensive, but high-quaity Japanese and German products began to become more popular. Consumer items like the VW Beetle and the cars from Toyota, Honda and others, as well as the radios, guitars, amps, clothing and plenty of other manufactured goods were far less expensive and usually of equal or sometimes even better quality than their North-American counterparts. This trend has continued and expanded with the rise of manufacturing in a plethora of 'emerging' nations, including China and is - in my opinion - unstoppable. But, perceived quality and name-brand recognition, combined with the all-too-human desire to purchase expensive stuff to 'show-off' mean that Rolex, Patek-Phillipe, Prada, Ferrari, Rolls Royce, BMW, Gibson, Fender, Martin and other highly-regarded manufacturers can and do stay in business, even with 'over-priced' goods. Oh, and please understand that I readily accept that Gibson and Fender (and others) produce their best guitars in the USA, and that they actually ARE usually much better than other less-expensive guitars. I have read posts here and in other guitar boards in which owners seem to be actually 'bragging' about how MUCH they paid for their guitars, like it's a contest that whoever dies with the most expensive toys wins. I'm sorry, but I have always found that contest and those who engage in it very shallow and vain. And you are most certainly welcome to 'flame' me for my probably unpopular opinion.


There are some people who like to spend a lot and show it. These people own lots of fancy toys and don't really use any or them, or care to find out what makes them expensive. But there are also lots of people who do care about quality and workmanship and see that as a reason to pay a premium.

Of your listed examples, Rolex and Patek Phillipe make phenomenal watches. Sure, a nice Seiko keeps time as well, but the level of minute detail and workmanship in a nice Swiss watch approaches the level of art, and that's not taking into account any precious metals or stones used as well. Same with Rolls Royces: these are hand-built (!!!) cars with the finest woods and leathers used in the cabin. If Honda started to hand-build civics, they'd all cost $50k easily. BMWs are nice as well, but to a much lesser degree than Rolls. Ferrari's just break down a lot, but when they work, boy oh boy are they something special. Again, you're looking at a small-quantity production run of hand-built supercars. 

While Gibson and Fender don't hand-build many of their guitars, some of the custom shop stuff is and that's reflected in the prices. Sure, Gibson's cost a LOT more than Fenders, and some of that can be justified, like the fact that set-neck guitars require a little more work than Fender's bolt-ons, but regardless, it's hard to argue costs when you take into account that the companies are paying for things like R&D, materials, labour, marketing, tools/machines, etc. 

Sure, everyone wants to pay less, and Wal-mart has plenty of First Act guitars for people who just want a 6-stringer to bang away on, but if you want something that won't fall apart on you in 2 years, will actually stay in tune and sounds half-decent, you're going to have to spend more than $99 on it. First step is off-shores like Epiphone, but better still are the US guitars.

Can imports be as good? I don't know. In my experience, there hasn't been a MIM/MIJ/MIC/MIK etc etc guitar that I've played that is AS good as it's US counterpart. A lot of them come close, some really close, but none have been as good. I've owned several Epiphones and I had a US Strat, currently have a MIM Strat, a US Les Paul as well as a Tokai Les Paul and a bunch of other guitars here and there. In my experience, the US guitars ALWAYS "feel" better than the imports, making them more pleasurable to play. Also, no matter what I do, I can't get my Tokai to play as nicely as my US LP. The Tokai is a hell of a guitar, no mistake, and it's plays great, but not quite as great as it's US counterpart. Is that worth twice the asking price? It's up to you. For me, yes, it absolutely is. The initial price is nothing if I end up not having to replace it later due to not loving it, or whatever other reason.

Sure, there's some US Gibsons and Fenders out there that are dogs, but in all honesty, if you've ended up with one of these it's just plain misfortune. Most of the time, it's easy enough to spot these early on. I played a US Traditional LP the other day that felt like a turd. I would never buy it, but I don't think it on its own is indicative of Gibson as a manufacturer. The same day in the same store I played a couple other Pauls that felt great. Sometimes it's not so easy, as you can have a guitar that just plain goes wonky, but you know what, it's a guitar; it's made of wood; it's subject to play wear, abuse, sweat, beers, etc,; wood in these circumstances doesn't always react well. Sure, it sucks if it happens to you, but it DOES happen. But it also happens to houses, furniture, flooring and other things made of wood. I'd rather my guitar's neck go wonky than my anything in my house.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

six-string said:


> it certainly looks like those photos are legitimate Gibson products, but they are just bait to lure in the niave. no one with any sense would really expect to buy an authentic Gibson Les Paul that normally retails for thousands of dollars, off some overseas internet site for a couple hundred bucks.
> 
> what is interesting is that Gibson has factories and business dealings in China. the Epiphone brand is made almost exclusively in China. so Gibson is profiting from the Chinese economy too. that includes having factories that don't have to deal with unionized labour, no health & safety standards, no environmental standards, cheap materials and low-paid workers, no sales taxes etc.
> it should come as no surprise that unscrupulous entrepeneurs would want to produce counterfeit copies of high-priced guitars. they do the same with jewelery, watches, dvds, cds, clothing, and electronic goods. why not guitars?
> ...



This is true however when people "cry" about Gibson's being overpriced they're often considering the global economy in which we live. It does cost more to produce Gibsons in the USA than it does to produce instruments of similar quality in other countries, but to deny that the name on the headstock doesn't account for a considerable portion of the cost seems like an oversight.

I doubt very much that a guitar you can buy for $200. is going to approach the quality of any decent set neck Gibson or other well made guitar.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

dwagar said:


> Is he selling it as a real Gibson? If so, report him to the police.


And you are saying "what" is wrong with it?


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

aww $hit...are you telling me a


> Les Traditional Gold Top


 isn't a real guitar??

i do feel bad that people are buying faux guitars...looks decent...but...nothing is sacred anymore


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

bobb said:


> And you are saying "what" is wrong with it?


I don't understand the question. If he's selling a Chinese counterfeit as a real Gibson, that is fraud.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

The one in the CL add is the real thing, at least the pictures are of the real thing. The barbie doll pink plastic and bridge style are the markers.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

dwagar said:


> I don't understand the question. If he's selling a Chinese counterfeit as a real Gibson, that is fraud.


It has already been determined that the pics on Trade Tang are of a real Gibson that are being used to sell fake Gibsons. AFAIK, the Vancouver CL ad is for a real Gibson. The seller is known for dealing in higher end gear, haven't seen him post fakes yet. I posted the pics to help show that the Trade Tang pics are of the real deal. Nowhere was it said that the Vancouver sale was for a Chinese counterfeit.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Something interesting I read once was an interview with a businessman who was at a trade show in China looking for a factory to contract to produce products for his company. The businessman said a major risk of doing business in China is that in order to get the factory to make your product, you have to turn over the designs and schematics when you do the contract. What can (and does) happen is the factory makes your products, but then turns around and starts making knock offs of your own merchandise and selling it to other importers with a generic brand name on it. So, you've spent all the time and money doing R&D to make something, and then the Chinese factory you paid to manufacture it turns around and steals the design and sells it. Apparently it's a huge risk of doing business there, and the Chinese government doesn't give a crap if Western businesses lose money over some intellectual property rights issue. But, the profit margins are so great when it does work out, that it is worth the risk for just about every Western company. 
So, given the fact that Gibson (and just about every other guitar maker) have factories in China making guitars for them, is it any wonder that counterfeit guitars are starting to show up? 

Obviously we all know the source of the fake guitars, but what happens 2, 5, 10 years down the road when these fakes have really gotten into circulation? When a guitar changes hands enough times, the origins and even the specs become murky. You're going to have people selling used "Gibsons" who honestly don't know they have a fake and are selling it as if it were real. 

And really, does Gibson USA actually need a reason to care? They don't make any money off the used instrument market. They're in the business of manufacturing and selling new guitars. This is actually good for them because it kills the used market and the only way to be 100% sure you're getting a real Gibson will be to buy a new one from an authorized dealer.


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## Overt1 (Aug 31, 2009)

A lot of these people seem to be satisfied with their Chibsons, so not all of them are junk or crap.

Google Translate


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

dwagar said:


> And kiddies that think they can order one of these and sell them as real Gibsons, PRS, Fender, Epi etc don't seem to understand that is fraud.


And I've seen many of them defend such practices online.

They really don't get it, or at least don't care.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

I'd say they do get it but just don't care. The likely justification is that they'd never be able to afford the real deal shipped all the way from the USA and so this is a more than acceptable alternative. As for comparing quality of materials and construction, let's just say that the maxim _ignorance is bliss_ probably applies very nicely.


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## Alex Csank (Jul 22, 2010)

I wouldn't mind these guitars at all if they only actually labeled them as "Chibson"!!


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Alex Csank said:


> I wouldn't mind these guitars at all if they only actually labeled them as "Chibson"!!


hahaha, i'm with you! That would be kinda cool, actually!


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

When only a Givson is good enough

Givson - acoustic and electric hawaiian guitars, spanish guitars and mandolines


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

bobb said:


> It has already been determined that the pics on Trade Tang are of a real Gibson that are being used to sell fake Gibsons. AFAIK, the Vancouver CL ad is for a real Gibson. The seller is known for dealing in higher end gear, haven't seen him post fakes yet. I posted the pics to help show that the Trade Tang pics are of the real deal. Nowhere was it said that the Vancouver sale was for a Chinese counterfeit.


sorry, I misunderstood the post. When you said "Identical guitar (right down to PLEK'd sticker) just showed up on Vancouver CL." I assumed you meant it was a Trade Tang counterfeit.

It's to the point when buying any used high end guitar, it's best to check the serial number with the factory to make sure it matches what you are buying.


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## Schectertastic (Jul 12, 2010)

Alex Csank said:


> Trade Tang has now gotten much better at counterfeiting the LP. I wish there was something that Gibson or the government could do to stop the sale of these! Here's just one example. Check it out: Les Traditional Gold Top on TradeTang.com


I for one would never EVER buy from tradetang simply because of this...."-Payment: We accept Bank wire transfer, the western union, money order. "

Those are ALL ways to lose your money and never have any guarantee or return or anything, there is no insurance at all. I'll only ever use sites with paypal so I can protect myself and my money buying anything online...never had a problem there, but heard lots of horror stories of people paying for items with the above 3 mentioned methods...sketchy business this tradetang site is running...


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## Stonesy (Oct 7, 2008)

Many people seem looking for a Les Paul type guitar on a budget.
I don't blame 'em, Gibsons prices are very high.
There are huge deals to be had on yahoojapan.
I just recieved two Burny Customs from the early '80s. A Randy Rhoads and a Black Beauty. Both made by Tokai.
Good electonics, light weight tailpieces, excellent tuners, ABR bridges, FEB, and new cases delivered to my door for $1200 CDN.


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

Stonesy said:


> Many people seem looking for a Les Paul type guitar on a budget.
> I don't blame 'em, Gibsons prices are very high.
> There are huge deals to be had on yahoojapan.
> I just recieved two Burny Customs from the early '80s. A Randy Rhoads and a Black Beauty. Both made by Tokai.
> Good electonics, light weight tailpieces, excellent tuners, ABR bridges, FEB, and new cases delivered to my door for $1200 CDN.


The difference is copy vs. counterfeit.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

Stonesy said:


> Many people seem looking for a Les Paul type guitar on a budget.
> I don't blame 'em, Gibsons prices are very high.
> There are huge deals to be had on yahoojapan.
> I just recieved two Burny Customs from the early '80s. A Randy Rhoads and a Black Beauty. Both made by Tokai.
> Good electonics, light weight tailpieces, excellent tuners, ABR bridges, FEB, and new cases delivered to my door for $1200 CDN.



personally, for $1200 i would buy a slightly used Heritage H-150 handmade on Parson Street in Kalamazoo Michigan at the same factory that built the classic Gibsons for almost a century. Heritage build excellent quality guitars to satisfy any LP cravings.

standard Heritage specs include- Honduran Mahogany body and neck, Indian rosewood fretboard, USA maple cap, Grover tuners, Schaller humbuckers, Tonepros bridge and tailpiece. 
a lot of quality for a reasonable price.


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## Stonesy (Oct 7, 2008)

Personally, I would spend my money as I see fit.
You spend yours as you see fit.
If you had $1200 to spend, buy a Heritage. I could give a rats ass.
I 've tried out more than a few Hertitages and they all were a bit rough, cheapy and fugly.
I was trying to point out that very high quality MIJs can be had for very good prices.
No need to look at tradetang.
Yahoojapan is where a schmo can get a great LP for aboot $500.
The law of diminishing returns in the $500 to $1000 MIJs is really compresssed.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Stonesy said:


> If you had $1200 to spend, buy a Heritage. I could give a rats ass.


Classy.........


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## blacktooth (Jul 3, 2010)

Have you seen TradeTang's "Jackson"'s? they labelled the soloist as a "Michael Jackson Soloist" and look at the headstock! not very accurate, that's for sure! It's too bad these companies can't really do anything about their products being counterfeited, maybe they'll start competing with the prices!! lol


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Stonesy said:


> I just recieved two Burny Customs from the early '80s. A Randy Rhoads and a Black Beauty. Both made by Tokai.
> Good electonics, light weight tailpieces, excellent tuners, ABR bridges, FEB, and new cases delivered to my door for $1200 CDN.


That's a pretty sweet deal! I've been bitten by the MIJ LP bug since I got my Tokai. I'm jonesing pretty good for a black custom.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Stonesy said:


> I just recieved two Burny Customs from the early '80s. A Randy Rhoads and a Black Beauty. Both made by Tokai.
> Good electonics, light weight tailpieces, excellent tuners, ABR bridges, FEB, and new cases delivered to my door for $1200 CDN.


sounds like a great deal, Burny's have a good reputation from what I've read. And they say 'Burny' on the headstock.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

dwagar said:


> sounds like a great deal, Burny's have a good reputation from what I've read. And they say 'Burny' on the headstock.


Big difference between a copy & a counterfeit.
With a copy, it doesn't say Gobson or Fender or whatever on it, and you know it's not the "real" thing...

Doesn't mean it's necessarily a bad guitar.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

al3d said:


> Classy.........



Stonesy gets some advice.....


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