# Surprising Experience with Rich Gowman at Amplifiers Plus



## discrete.infinity (Feb 1, 2020)

Hey, Im new here and was super happy to find an active forum based right here at home !

Quick background:
- Playing tube amps for over 20 years
- Software Developer by trade
- Been learning a lot about electronics lately 

Rich seems to have some good Google reviews and some people in this forum have good things to say but Ive had a disappointing experience so far.

I have a Fender Princeton Reissue and it is an amp that I specifically sought out because it didn't suffer from any of the well known rattle issues (if you have not heard about Fender reissue rattle/buzz issues it wont take long to find the reports).

Long story short, after Rich worked on the amp, I took it home and it had become a rattler.
Brought it back to Rich and his response was "some of these amps have that problem". 
Well... I had specifically mentioned to Rich that I sought my amp out because it didn't rattle !

He worked on it again and when I came to pick it up, he chose not to demo it and made sure I knew that "rattling in the baffle was fixed and anything else you hear is the speaker"

Hmmm, When I had brought the amp back for the warranty repair I had asked Rich if the speaker sounded blown to him... I asked him about his decision to bias the amp "hotter" and if that could blow the speaker (its a 12" Tone 50W Tubby Alnico Red in a Princeton...). I had asked him to install a switch that disabled negative feedback and asked if that could affect the speaker.

Sure enough I get home and that speaker is buzzing and crapping out and it never did that before. It might be better after his second attempt at working on it (he added some more screws to the speaker) but it definitely does not sound like my amp anymore...

Some other surprising things that happened...

- After his first attempt, the amp came back with volume bleed even when the volume knob was fully OFF.
- He had installed new input jacks and told me it was more "vintage" ...
- I had informed him via email of the issue.
- When I came back the second time I told him NOT to worry about the volume bleed cause I had fixed the problem after doing research on the internet. Switched the new tube he had put in V3 into V1 and voila, volume bleed gone ! (I then switched them back and planned to buy another new tube myself). 
- During his second repair attempt he investigated the volume bleed and determined that it was normal and there was nothing he could do ... not sure if he forgot what I had told him but in any case, that is not a "normal" issue

- I have a noisy reverb, common problem with Princetons
- Rich told me he would use "Vintage" braided cables for the tank
- I told him I could do that ....
- Rich charged me labour to swap out two cables, flip the reverb tank around, and put a new tube in V3
- I could have done all of that myself for free but Rich said that he would make sure the Reverb noise went away
- When I got the amp back, Rich told me that the Reverb noise was part of the amps design and it didn't matter because I should only use the Reverb below "3" on the dial.
- I double checked with two well known amp techs in Southern Ontario (hour drive away for me). Neither thought it necessary to settle for a noisy reverb. One guy even went as far as to say that "anyone telling you not to use your Reverb above 3 is an idiot"

- He was able to swap a 1M resistor for a 220k resistor to increase the intensity of my Tremolo

- He did replace the external speaker jack with a 3-way switch that toggles negative feedback (not sure if thats related to my speaker issue tho...)

- Biased my amp "as hot as possible" which is not something I asked for nor something I wanted. But ok, maybe its something people normally want

- I brought him the amp mid December
- He said it might take until early January (because of Christmas)
- On January 17 I emailed him for an update
- He claimed he had "just finished the repairs" but needed to work out the invoice
- a couple hours later he sent me an invoice
- As someone else on google review also reported, Im pretty sure Rich didn't start working on my amp until I emailed him 
- I would be ok with this delay if my amp sounded at least the same or better than it did before

To summarize, after more than a month without my amp
- I have a new speaker issue 
- Still have reverb issue as before
- two of the simples mods ever that I gave exact directions for cost me $200 
- got some braided "vintage" cables for $40 (apparently thats the going rate but Im pretty sure I could have made my own for cheaper)

Has anyone ever used Rich for any mods or specific issues or are all the people recommending him just bringing their amps to him so he can switch the tubes or fix a noisy jack ?

Thanks for Listening !


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Ouch.


----------



## markxander (Oct 24, 2009)

I've had rich do work a couple times and never had issues with the quality of his work. In my limited interactions with him, I am surprised that the work wasn't great, but I'm not super surprised about the personality related stuff.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Welcome aboard DI
Sorry to hear about your situation.

Rich worked on two of mine, not as detailed as what yours entailed though.
I had an output transistor replaced on one and input jacks, a few caps and redo some cold solder on another.
I guess that you could say that he proved to me that he's capable of basic stuff.
I no longer have a steady hand.


----------



## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

Most people around here seemed to have had good experiences with Rich. OP obviously didn’t and, as I have posted before, I also didn’t and won’t deal with him again under any circumstances. In my case, it was warranty work on a Peavey Classic 30 (not exactly a complex amp) and he messed it up so thoroughly while working through Sherwood that Sherwood ended up taking that amp back after his disaster and giving me a new one. So variable experiences: he seems to have his good days, but when he has a bad day, it’s really bad and he certainly doesn’t take responsibility for those.


----------



## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

You may want to at least speak to Brian Luckhurst in Etobicoke. The Princeton Reverb is his favourite circuit, and he has many happy customers. I have a 40 watt PR head from him.

Not sure you want to get into it here, but what is the reverb issue?


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

If he's doing work you didn't ask him to do, he should not be charging you extra for it. It is not your fault if he can't follow instructions left by the client.

I would bring it to Mike at Vintage Tonewheel Restorations in London, if you're inclined to drive that far. Reasonable turn-around and I have had nothing but good experiences working with my touring equipment.


----------



## TubeStack (Jul 16, 2009)

Maybe he was mad you’re not spelling his name correctly?

Just kidding. 

As a related topic, are there any other amp repair options in the KW/Cambridge area? Rich seems to be the only guy around.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

TubeStack said:


> Rich seems to be the only guy around.


No, he is not. There are others in the area.

Derek at Sherwood Music, Kitchener is repairing an amp. for me at the moment.

I have a rattle that I have isolated at ~131 Hz.


----------



## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

I had Rich do some work on a Silverface Champ for me once. On one had, he was very helpful and took the time to experiment with with some different speakers to see which ones I liked the most. But now that you mention stuff you didn’t ask for, I’m reminded that he took the tone stack out of the circuit and changed the negative feedback for a more “tweed like” sound. I tried it for a few minutes, but that wasn’t what I wanted, so he reversed it on the spot. 

This next one is pure speculation, but I bought an amp that was repaired and serviced by Rich for an issue blowing power tubes apparently. The amp was working when I bought it, but several months of light use later it stopped making any sound. Again, I’ve got no proof that it was a poor repair, but it does seem a little weird that it lasted only a relatively short period of time. But it’s also possible that my amp is a dud.


----------



## discrete.infinity (Feb 1, 2020)

Thanks for everyone's replies ! 

Im in contact with Rich and he is wanting me to bring the amp back to him. Something Im not planning to do. Im hoping he agrees to some sort of refund because I will be bringing the amp to someone else eventually. When I get another opinion I will definitely report back in here.


----------



## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

I imagine most amp techs cringe when clients drop off pcb tube amps for repair. Unfortunately, pcb tube amps are probably the majority of their workload!

No excuse for bad service though...


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I have no horse in this race, but it’s always helpful to hear both sides of a story.


----------



## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

tonewoody said:


> I imagine most amp techs cringe when clients drop off pcb tube amps for repair. Unfortunately, pcb tube amps are probably the majority of their workload!


Never bothered me if an amp was PCB based. Well maybe except for Mesa amps


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

tonewoody said:


> I imagine most amp techs cringe when clients drop off pcb tube amps for repair. Unfortunately, pcb tube amps are probably the majority of their workload!
> 
> No excuse for bad service though...


They also have the option to politely say they are unable to work in it. Or even make up an excuse for being too busy. Really, anything is better than just doing a job that upsets a customer.

I don't know anything about this guy, but I have been looking for a tech in the area and appreciate the heads up. I am not making any blanket statement about his skills, only that I don't want anyone _ever_ doing unrequested mods to my equipment, and there are multiple mentions of that. That alone is a reason for me to give him a pass.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> They also have the option to politely say they are unable to work in it. Or even make up an excuse for being too busy. Really, anything is better than just doing a job that upsets a customer.
> 
> I don't know anything about this guy, but I have been looking for a tech in the area and appreciate the heads up. I am not making any blanket statement about his skills, only that I don't want anyone _ever_ doing unrequested mods to my equipment, and there are multiple mentions of that. That alone is a reason for me to give him a pass.


I agree, but sometimes the court of public opinion damages people when it’s really a personal dispute.

No offense to anyone, but hearsay can ruin a guys business. Maybe he deserves it, I don’t know.


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I haven’t heard any hearsay in this thread. Perhaps you don’t know the meaning or it was a poor choice of word. People are discussing first hand experiences which isn’t hearsay. As long as what they’re saying is factually true it’s fair game.


----------



## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Your first post to the forum is a long winded post trashing an amp tech.

I’m not denying your experience, but gonna call you out on bad form.

Are you here to contribute, or because you have an axe to grind?


----------



## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

JBFairthorne said:


> I haven’t heard any hearsay in this thread. Perhaps you don’t know the meaning...


It is hearsay the moment anyone other than the OP tells the story, and surely that will happen. So a valid use of the term.


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

It’s hearsay when anyone else tells the OP’s story. It’s not hearsay when they tell their own story. Every story in this thread was a different personal experience of each individual poster.

Really that’s what reputation is though right? A collection of good and/or bad experiences that people have had. As long as the information is TRUE and accurate. A reputation isn’t made or broken with one experience. It takes time and eventually a pattern emerges.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> I haven’t heard any hearsay in this thread. Perhaps you don’t know the meaning or it was a poor choice of word. People are discussing first hand experiences which isn’t hearsay. As long as what they’re saying is factually true it’s fair game.


Hmm, well when all you read is one side of a story without evidence that seems like hearsay to me.

At best it’s an unverified testimonial.

How do YOU know it’s true?


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> It’s hearsay when anyone else tells the OP’s story. It’s not hearsay when they tell their own story. Every story in this thread was a different personal experience of each individual poster.
> 
> Really that’s what reputation is though right? A collection of good and/or bad experiences that people have had. As long as the information is TRUE and accurate. A reputation isn’t made or broken with one experience. It takes time and eventually a pattern emerges.


I also don't feel the OP is trashing anyone.

People make their way to this forum generally because they are researching and stumble onto it. A lot of times that means the first post will be related to an issue they have. It doesn't mean they are up to something. 

Other members posted similar experiences, and no one has posted anything rude.


----------



## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

Milkman said:


> At best it’s an unverified testimonial.


... and from an anonymous source.


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Milkman said:


> Hmm, well when all you read is one side of a story without evidence that seems like hearsay to me.
> 
> How do YOU know it’s true?


Well there you go then. Your perceived meaning of hearsay was inaccurate. Hearing one side of the story is a completely different thing. It wasn't an attempt to pick on you or anything, it was just a poor choice of word based on an incorrect idea of it's meaning. There are lots of words I throw around that I probably use incorrectly based on a vague understanding of it's actual meaning. Shit happens.

As far as the truth is concerned, I have no idea. I was just saying that as long as what he was saying was true that it was fair game. I made no assertions as to the validity of his account of the events.

That being said, I tend to agree that the first post in a guitar forum being a complaint about service is questionable. It seems more like an effort to get back at someone (whether it's true or not) than it is to try to find a solution or prevent someone else from going down the same road.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

dradlin said:


> ... and from an anonymous source.


It's a forum. We are all anonymous on some level and we are all new here at some point. The OP has as much right to post his story as anyone else here does. What about the other longer term members replying? Are they not allowed to tell their stories either? There literally has been no hearsay going on here.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

discrete.infinity said:


> Hey, Im new here and was super happy to find an active forum based right here at home !
> 
> Quick background:
> - Playing tube amps for over 20 years
> ...


No. I've had one problem with a tube head (Carvin V3M) and brought it to a local guy. Took two attempts to fix it but it was an intermittent problem. If I was to have an amp built, I'd do it myself at one of those weekend courses that pop up every now and then.


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Of course it's unverified and anonymous. It's a public guitar forum on the internet not the New York Post. Geez!


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> Well there you go then. Your perceived meaning of hearsay was inaccurate. Hearing one side of the story is a completely different thing. It wasn't an attempt to pick on you or anything, it was just a poor choice of word based on an incorrect idea of it's meaning. There are lots of words I throw around that I probably use incorrectly based on a vague understanding of it's actual meaning. Shit happens.
> 
> As far as the truth is concerned, I have no idea. I was just saying that as long as what he was saying was true that it was fair game. I made no assertions as to the validity of his account of the events.
> 
> That being said, I tend to agree that the first post in a guitar forum being a complaint about service is questionable. It seems more like an effort to get back at someone (whether it's true or not) than it is to try to find a solution or prevent someone else from going down the same road.


Just of note, 'first post' doesn't mean he hasn't read posts on the forum before. It's common for people doing research on something like a tech to find posts here. And it's common that if someone has an issue, that's what gets them to actually join and post. I agree it's completely fine to question the validity of the post. But I don't think the OP was trashing anyone or was rude. He was posting an experience. He could have come on in a tirade. He posted a pretty level headed post.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@discrete.infinity Please correct the spelling of Rich's
surname in the thread title.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

greco said:


> No, he is not. There are others in the area.
> 
> Derek at Sherwood Music, Kitchener is repairing an amp. for me at the moment.
> 
> I have a rattle that I have isolated at ~131 Hz.


What? How in the heck did you nail that down?


----------



## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

If an anonymous poster calls out a specific tech by name... I call foul.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> What? How in the heck did you nail that down?


"C" on the 6th string and on the 5th string* (*to a lesser extent)
I'm hoping he can start here with his audio signal generator. 
Just a guess as to how Derek might approach the problem and me trying to be helpful.
I could be totally wrong.
Maybe @dtsaudio and/or @nonreverb will comment.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> I haven’t heard any hearsay in this thread. Perhaps you don’t know the meaning or it was a poor choice of word. People are discussing first hand experiences which isn’t hearsay. As long as what they’re saying is factually true it’s fair game.









hear·say
/ˈhirˌsā/
Learn to pronounce
_noun_

information received from other people that one cannot adequately substantiate; rumor.

Can you substantiate the claims of poor service?


----------



## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

JBFairthorne said:


> Of course it's unverified and anonymous. It's a public guitar forum on the internet not the New York Post. Geez!


... and thus hearsay. 80)


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

greco said:


> "C" on the 6th string and on the 5th string* (*to a lesser extent)
> I'm hoping he can start here with his audio signal generator. Just a guess as to how he might approach the problem and me trying to be helpful.
> Maybe @dtsaudio and/or @nonreverb will comment.


That is so cool. Dumb question, when you find the frequency, does that narrow down what components in the amp might be sympathetically vibrating?


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

dradlin said:


> ... and thus hearsay. 80)


Ok, I don't really know you. So every post you are making must be hearsay and anonymous.

It sure makes the forum look like a great place when we shit on new users.


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Milkman said:


> hear·say
> /ˈhirˌsā/
> Learn to pronounce
> _noun_
> ...


In English law, hearsay has long been determined to be information relayed by a non-witness. I.e. John's buddy Jim, comes to this forum complaining about the poor service John received. Jim wasn't there, didn't experience the before and after and is just using information he received third-hand. That's hearsay according to all western courts. First-hand information by a direct witness (in this case John), is not hearsay. Cheers!


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

OMG. At first I offered you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps I shouldn't have.

If someone asked me about the tech in question and I said, "well I heard from a guy I know that he did shoddy work". THAT'S hearsay. Is that clear enough for you? I NEVER commented on the validity of the comments. I never offered anyone else's experiences on the matter. I simply stated that your use of the word was wrong.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what pronunciation has to do with the written word on a guitar forum. Geez! I would have more respect for you if you just said, yeah I chose my words poorly and moved on. You've managed to misinterpret a polite correction on your choice of word as a personal attack despite my clear attempt at telling you that was not my intention and try to provoke an argument. Maybe you need another break from the forum.

Lighten up. Take a deep breath. Try not to take things so personally.


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

1SweetRide said:


> In English law, hearsay has long been determined to be information relayed by a non-witness. I.e. John's buddy Jim, comes to this forum complaining about the poor service John received. Jim wasn't there, didn't experience the before and after and is just using information he received third-hand. That's hearsay according to all western courts. First-hand information by a direct witness (in this case John), is not hearsay. Cheers!


He gets it!


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> OMG. At first I offered you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps I shouldn't have.
> 
> If someone asked me about the tech in question and I said, "well I heard from a guy I know that he did shoddy work". THAT'S hearsay. Is that clear enough for you? I NEVER commented on the validity of the comments. I never offered anyone else's experiences on the matter. I simply stated that your use of the word was wrong.
> 
> ...


says the guy who seems to be getting all worked up about things, LOL.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> That is so cool. Dumb question, when you find the frequency, does that narrow down what components in the amp might be sympathetically vibrating?


It might not be an electronics component, it could be anything(e.g., metal grille) ...or a few various things. "A needle in a haystack" might be the best description.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> Ok, I don't really know you. So every post you are making must be hearsay and anonymous.
> 
> It sure makes the forum look like a great place when we shit on new users.


Or when we take the unsubstantiated word of an unknown person making damaging claims on a web forum.

All I’m saying is, there are likely two sides to this.


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Regarding the rattling at a certain frequency...knowing the frequency may not help directly, but it will surely help you recreate the situation to properly diagnose the issue.


----------



## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

I dunno, I’m not a lawyer... but my understanding is that anonymous hearsay evidence is inadmissible in judicial proceedings, and any anonymous source that can’t be cross examined is considered hearsay.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> OMG. At first I offered you the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps I shouldn't have.
> 
> If someone asked me about the tech in question and I said, "well I heard from a guy I know that he did shoddy work". THAT'S hearsay. Is that clear enough for you? I NEVER commented on the validity of the comments. I never offered anyone else's experiences on the matter. I simply stated that your use of the word was wrong.
> 
> ...


Pronunciation??

What are you raving about?

the word pronunciation was copied as a part of the definition.

Wow.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

JBFairthorne said:


> but it will surely help you recreate the situation to properly diagnose the issue.


Yes, diagnosis typically precedes treatment.


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Perhaps I misinterpreted the "Learn to pronounce" line in your definition as I've seen pronunciation in definitions but never the phrase learn to pronounce. If so, my apologies. Now, hopefully, we can move on.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Yup, I did not intend to start anything.

The op may indeed have valid concerns and may indeed be trying to help the community.

But, so far we have not heard from the tech in question.

That seems sort of important to me.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

dradlin said:


> I dunno, I’m not a lawyer... but my understanding is that anonymous hearsay evidence is inadmissible in judicial proceedings, and any anonymous source that can’t be cross examined is considered hearsay.


This isn't court, and people are allowed to leave reviews/posts on services here. Techs are a business, and can be named just like a store or another business. If someone came on here out of the blue and went on a tirade simply insulting someone and slandering them it would be different. The OP's post was neither. If you are going to go after him for his post, why aren't you also going after other users who posted experiences in this thread?


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

_Rich seems to have some good Google reviews and some people in this forum have good things to say but Ive had a disappointing experience so far.

Has anyone ever used Rich for any mods or specific issues or are all the people recommending him just bringing their amps to him so he can switch the tubes or fix a noisy jack ?

Thanks for Listening !
_
The OP does some research and goes to Rich based on that. Details his experience then asks if anyone else has had the same problem as him.
Doesn't read to me that he was bitching or trying to besmirch Rich's reputation. It was his experience.

Maybe I'll take TDU's comment 'we are all anonymous' a little more seriously now and treat all poster's comments as suspicious until I meet you face to face and verify that you're in fact 'real' and not a russian/chinese bot. lol



Milkman said:


> But, so far we have not heard from the tech in question.


He may not be a member here. Email him and point him to this thread?


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

laristotle said:


> _Rich seems to have some good Google reviews and some people in this forum have good things to say but Ive had a disappointing experience so far.
> 
> Has anyone ever used Rich for any mods or specific issues or are all the people recommending him just bringing their amps to him so he can switch the tubes or fix a noisy jack ?
> 
> ...


I always have some suspicion, but the thing is if someone is showing up to simply cause shit they will generally not post such a well thought out post. They are usually more angry, confrontational, and insulting. You pretty much always have to ask "well what exactly happened", and in this case it's clearly laid out. The fact that other members backup that his post doesn't seem far fetched is another big factor. I hate to see people be automatically accused of ulterior motives for joining the forum and participating. 

Plus, for my own personal research, if I see 3 posts in a thread where people mention a tech did unrequested mods to their amps? That's info I'd like to know. That is something I absolutely do not want done to any of my amps and would find a tech more on my wavelength.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

1SweetRide said:


> That is so cool. Dumb question, when you find the frequency, does that narrow down what components in the amp might be sympathetically vibrating?


I'd be surprised if it's not a speaker issue, cone cry for example. But then I've been surprised before  I have a Carr speaker here that sounds terrific until you a specific frequency, then it howls like a banshee.


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Meeting face to face may make you MORE suspicious.....


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Milkman said:


> *Hmm, well when all you read is one side of a story without evidence that seems like hearsay to me.*


That's called an eye witness.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

laristotle said:


> _Rich seems to have some good Google reviews and some people in this forum have good things to say but Ive had a disappointing experience so far.
> 
> Has anyone ever used Rich for any mods or specific issues or are all the people recommending him just bringing their amps to him so he can switch the tubes or fix a noisy jack ?
> 
> ...


Or better yet, maybe the person making the claims should do so.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

player99 said:


> That's called an eye witness.





player99 said:


> That's called an eye witness.


Well known to be unreliable and inconsistent.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Milkman said:


> Well known to be unreliable and inconsistent.


But not hearsay.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

JBFairthorne said:


> Meeting face to face may make you MORE suspicious.....


Especially if they're southpaws. lol


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Di**cough**ck!


----------



## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

I ponder whether such posts are worth the risk of having to defend yourself in a libel suit... even if you are justified, it would be costly and time consuming to defend.


Online reviews can get you sued; here's what not to do


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> Di**cough**ck!


Takes one to **cough** know one!


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Easy killer that wasn’t directed at you although I can see how you might think it was. Move on. You’re just exhausting.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> Easy killer that wasn’t directed at you although I can see how you might think it was.



Sorry, I’m not Kreskin.


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

dradlin said:


> I ponder whether such posts are worth the risk of having to defend yourself in a libel suit... even if you are justified, it would be costly and time consuming to defend.
> 
> 
> Online reviews can get you sued; here's what not to do


Wow. Well, you clearly aren't someone to try to have a reasonable discussion with. Maybe we should just shut down this whole forum so that no one can ever make a negative comment about service they received? Maybe you don't understand this is a part of a forum like this? Anyway, good luck with being angry in life over ridiculous stuff.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Seems like a lot of pots calling kettles black in this thread.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> Easy killer that wasn’t directed at you although I can see how you might think it was. Move on. You’re just exhausting.


Most definitely directed at Larry, LOL.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Sorry that you had to put up with the derailment DI.
At least there are a few posts that pertain to yours.

You'll find that as you read the other forums here, that this has become a trend. lol


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

davetcan said:


> Most definitely directed at Larry, LOL.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I have no reason to doubt the OP's well thought out and detailed post. Not sure why someone else would. Thanks for letting the folks here know @discrete.infinity . Hopefully you get your amp fixed correctly next time.

EDIT: Having said that, I'm in no way saying it wasn't fixed correctly in the first place, so I'd like to retract that in the above if it came across as poor quality work from your tech. I do agree there are 2 sides to this story, and after having my own Fender in to my own tech a number of times over the last while, I can guarantee that "recently learning a lot about electronics" is a hella lot different than understanding how a tube amp works.

If anyone who liked my post before would like to unlike the like, I wouldn't take it personal like. OK!


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Milkman said:


> Yup, I did not intend to start anything.
> 
> The op may indeed have valid concerns and may indeed be trying to help the community.
> 
> ...


So no one is allowed to post on here about having a bad experience with a tech unless the tech posts his side of the story as well? If someone states what happened to them then it's up to the reader to use that information or not how they see fit.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

dradlin said:


> I ponder whether such posts are worth the risk of having to defend yourself in a libel suit... even if you are justified, it would be costly and time consuming to defend.
> 
> 
> Online reviews can get you sued; here's what not to do


Oh no! I have posted a lot of reviews on Amazon. Do I need a lawyer?


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Dorian2 said:


> I have no reason to doubt the OP's well thought out and detailed post. Not sure why someone else would. Thanks for letting the folks here know @discrete.infinity . Hopefully you get your amp fixed correctly next time.
> 
> EDIT: Having said that, I'm in no way saying it wasn't fixed correctly in the first place, so I'd like to retract that in the above if it came across as poor quality work from your tech. I do agree there are 2 sides to this story, and after having my own Fender in to my own tech a number of times over the last while, I can guarantee that "recently learning a lot about electronics" is a hella lot different than understanding how a tube amp works.
> 
> If anyone who liked my post before would like to unlike the like, I wouldn't take it personal like. OK!


I don't think anyone disagrees that there are 2 sides to a story. But the issue is someone is posting borderline threatening posts in reply, when it's also not their place to do so. Especially when the original post was posted in a completely reasonable way, and other posters posted related experiences. If that was a trend on this forum, it would be a crap direction for the forum to take. Posting experiences with businesses is pretty normal topic on a forum like this.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> I don't think anyone disagrees that there are 2 sides to a story. But the issue is someone is posting borderline threatening posts in reply, when it's also not their place to do so. Especially when the original post was posted in a completely reasonable way, and other posters posted related experiences. If that was a trend on this forum, it would be a crap direction for the forum to take. Posting experiences with businesses is pretty normal topic on a forum like this.


Borderline threatening?

Which?


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Guncho said:


> So no one is allowed to post on here about having a bad experience with a tech unless the tech posts his side of the story as well? If someone states what happened to them then it's up to the reader to use that information or not how they see fit.


Interesting extrapolation.

I don’t recall that being said.


----------



## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

dtsaudio said:


> Never bothered me if an amp was PCB based. Well maybe except for Mesa amps


Segue ---- Agreed...some models are a huge pita. small components etc...under built.. imho


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

How did this thread get so useless so fast?


----------



## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Budda said:


> How did this thread get so useless so fast?


A dude throwing out veiled threats for no reason will tend to do that.


----------



## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

loudtubeamps said:


> Segue ---- Agreed...some models are a huge pita. small components etc...under built.. imho


If I had a nickel for every time I've seen a Mesa with a roasted PCB....


----------



## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

You gotta wonder how they even get them together.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

gtrguy said:


> If I had a nickel for every time I've seen a Mesa with a roasted PCB....


Seriously? I have a buddy that has been pounding his Maverick Dual Rectifier he bought used in about 1995. He leaves it on all the time, gigs with it 3 or 4 times a week, and it sounds so good.


----------



## discrete.infinity (Feb 1, 2020)

Dorian2 said:


> I have no reason to doubt the OP's well thought out and detailed post. Not sure why someone else would. Thanks for letting the folks here know @discrete.infinity . Hopefully you get your amp fixed correctly next time.
> 
> EDIT: Having said that, I'm in no way saying it wasn't fixed correctly in the first place, so I'd like to retract that in the above if it came across as poor quality work from your tech. I do agree there are 2 sides to this story, and after having my own Fender in to my own tech a number of times over the last while, I can guarantee that "recently learning a lot about electronics" is a hella lot different than understanding how a tube amp works.
> 
> If anyone who liked my post before would like to unlike the like, I wouldn't take it personal like. OK!


Exactly ! I definitely have technical skills but do not understand enough about tube amps to fix them myself. That is why I brought it to a tube amp repair shop and why I tried to explain my issues as clearly as possible in order to learn more about what is going on.



davetcan said:


> I'd be surprised if it's not a speaker issue, cone cry for example. But then I've been surprised before  I have a Carr speaker here that sounds terrific until you a specific frequency, then it howls like a banshee.


I think it is a speaker issue and its a speaker issue I didn't hear before bringing it to Rich. It could very well be impossible for a speaker to "break" at a specific frequency due to a negative feedback mod, a re-bias, or anything else that could have happened while it was on the bench being worked on.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Well just to share a story discrete. I brought my Blues Junior 3 into an amp guy here for a major Mod. After the Mod, the amp sound was amazing. After a couple of weeks, it started to make popcorn popping sounds after it had been warmed for a while. That never happened before. Took it back after letting him know and hear the opping that I taped to phone. He had it on the bench for about 4-5 hours and nothing was popping. He couldn't figure it out so back home it came, $40 bench fee later. After 2 or 3 days it started popping again. Brought it back in. After he left it on for close to 8 hours this time he finally got it to "not work" with the popcorn sounds. He then proceeded to poke around the components with an instrument, probably a chopstick, and found that the sound stopped when he hit a specific resistor. Tested the resistor and the components around it. No issue as far as the testing was concerned. He explained that the film in a resistor can just "flake out" for whatever reason, maybe due to a bad batch at Fender or whatever. Changed the resistor at no charge and all is well. The amp guys know a lot more than the general thread poster might let on so it's a good idea to keep that in mind. I'm also surprised that those other amp techs actually called someone out without asking to see it for themselves. That's bad form in the tech business. As a software developer, you should know that deal.


----------



## discrete.infinity (Feb 1, 2020)

Rich has provided me a refund for his labour, and he kept the money for the switch, tube, input jacks and braided vintage rca cables.

At some point I want to compare the braided cables to the cables that came with the amp and see if I can hear a difference but I am hesitant to do that because I have a feeling there will not be much of a difference and then I will be annoyed that I spent $40 on these cables. For now Im happy that they look cool 

I unplugged the reverb pan from the amp and unplugged the guitar. Powered the amp on. Turned up the reverb knob and hear a bunch of white noise. Ive seen similar issues described on other forums and in youtube videos. Rich claims this issue cannot be fixed. I have heard otherwise. If anyone has any insight into Fender Princeton Reverb noise that would be awesome. I could have done all the reverb repairs he did by myself because they were as simple as flipping a pan, switching cables and swapping a tube. I told him this ahead of time and he claimed he could and would do more. He didn't. Based on that alone I feel like it was totally appropriate to make this post and ask for a refund.

I am not sure why Rich installed the new input jacks other than his claim that its "more vintage". More vintage because the previous input jacks were soldered to a PCB board. But he didn't seem able to explain what that did for my amp. Afterwards there was volume bleed with the volume knob off and he claims that is a normal issue. I fixed that issue with a new tube. Another reason why this post is justified.

Which brings me to the PCB versus point to point debate. I understand that PCB is more difficult to work on. But Rich could have refused to work on it. He is a Fender authorized repairman but I wasn't bringing my amp in on warranty. He also claims that PCB sounds worse and is noisier which I have heard before but Im not convinced that is true. That is another can of worms though ...


----------



## discrete.infinity (Feb 1, 2020)

Dorian2 said:


> ... I'm also surprised that those other amp techs actually called someone out without asking to see it for themselves. That's bad form in the tech business. As a software developer, you should know that deal.


He was called out for claiming that the Reverb noise is impossible to fix and that I shouldn't use the Reverb above 3 anyways. 

You don't need to see my amp on a bench to know those comments are ridiculous.


----------



## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

player99 said:


> Seriously? I have a buddy that has been pounding his Maverick Dual Rectifier he bought used in about 1995. He leaves it on all the time, gigs with it 3 or 4 times a week, and it sounds so good.


Seriously, I also had a Maverick 2x12... never had a single issue with it other than it weighed a ton. But, I've seen more than couple and less than 30 other Mesa models with roasted circuit boards as pictured above. Clearly not every one of their designs is as reliable as every other.


----------



## discrete.infinity (Feb 1, 2020)

In terms of questions about my intentions here... Ill admit, this negative experience caused me to open an account and post. I had an amazingly positive repair experience in Kitchener with Ryan at Bob's Guitar Service and it didn't trigger me to open an account and post. Im not exactly sure why, I guess I just figured that Bob Egan is a well known guy and that when he passed his shop along he would pass it along to someone equally as awesome. And that everyone knew this already lol. I was new to town !


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

discrete.infinity said:


> He was called out for claiming that the Reverb noise is impossible to fix and that I shouldn't use the Reverb above 3 anyways.
> 
> You don't need to see my amp on a bench to know those comments are ridiculous.


Forgot that it was the reverb. My bad.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Sorry, my comment was actually supposed to be directed at Greco's issue 



discrete.infinity said:


> I think it is a speaker issue and its a speaker issue I didn't hear before bringing it to Rich. It could very well be impossible for a speaker to "break" at a specific frequency due to a negative feedback mod, a re-bias, or anything else that could have happened while it was on the bench being worked on.


----------



## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

discrete.infinity said:


> He was called out for claiming that the Reverb noise is impossible to fix and that I shouldn't use the Reverb above 3 anyways.
> 
> You don't need to see my amp on a bench to know those comments are ridiculous.


- Reference a Princeton Reverb schematic. 
- Look at the Reverb signal return path. 
- Note that it connects directly to a gain stage+phase inverter then 12-14 watts output power. 
- That signal path is noisy by design.

- Typically on a stock Blackface PR, reverb settings above 3 start to hit the point of diminishing musical value.

Sorry to say, IMO, your comment above only serves to cast doubt on your credibility and motives. To be fair, expecting good service is appropriate but you also have to appreciate that some of your expectations were unrealistic.

The damage is done.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

tonewoody said:


> Reference a Princeton Reverb schematic. Follow the Reverb return path. It connects directly to a gain stage+phase inverter then 12-14 watts output power. That signal path is noisy by design.
> Typically on a stock Blackface PR, reverb settings above 3 start to hit the point of diminishing musical value.
> 
> Sorry to say, IMO, your comments quoted above only serve to weaken the credibility of your "personal experience".


The amp fixer guy should have known that.


----------



## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

player99 said:


> The amp fixer guy should have known that.


Did he charge for Mind Reading ? Sorry, I missed that part...


----------



## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

Budda said:


> How did this thread get so useless so fast?


Hang in there, the dramatic tension will make the happy ending that much sweeter.


----------



## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

I had a deluxe reverb reissue about 5 years ago with a similar problem ..hiss.
I seem to remember reading about turning the rev. tank 180 degrees , this helped some posters. 
I believe if memory serves me correct that the fix was to lower the value of the neg. feedback resistor.
I disconnected the existing n.f. resistor , jumped a 25 k pot into the neg f.b. line and swept the pot until the rev was somewhat better ...the amp on the whole , was of course much quieter without any significant change in tone. The owner was happy and the fix was quick and easy.
Re: cone cry..it does happen, especially with speakers with smaller diameter voice coils...usually triggered by the mid range freqs. I can't see a Princeton generating enough wump in the mid range to cause cone cry.


----------



## cosmicray (Sep 13, 2021)

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/audioengineering/comments/6h90xx
 Be careful where you place your reverb amp!!! It might be a case of a simple interface. It happens a lot with reverb tanks. Feel bad for the poor tech who can't it replicate. You just threw a good guy under the bus for something that can be your own doing. He has given you are money for the labor. Jez just saying.


----------



## cosmicray (Sep 13, 2021)

discrete.infinity said:


> Hey, Im new here and was super happy to find an active forum based right here at home !
> 
> Quick background:
> 
> ...




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/audioengineering/comments/6h90xx

Be careful where you place your reverb amp!!! It might be a case of a simple interface. It happens a lot with reverb tanks. Feel bad for the poor tech who can't it replicate. You just threw a good guy under the bus for something that can be your own doing. He has given you are money for the labor. Jez just saying.


----------



## cosmicray (Sep 13, 2021)

cosmicray said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/audioengineering/comments/6h90xx
> 
> Be careful where you place your reverb amp!!! It might be a case of a simple interface. It happens a lot with reverb tanks. Feel bad for the poor tech who can't it replicate. You just threw a good guy under the bus for something that can be your own doing. He has given you are money for the labor. Jez just saying.


Also as a fellow developer .. No human can program bug-free most of the time. Just imagine when QA reviews your code and rejects it. Then writes a scathing letter to your boss in detail on a public forum like LinkedIn. A forum where a lot of your opportunities job opportunities come from. Only to have a bunch of folks who don't know better chime in and say .. Take your business elsewhere to IBM or any other consulting company to get your code written cause this guy can produce bug-free code. See my point? Amplifier Plus has an excellent reputation and you only person that I have seen complaints about this organization. . It hurts folks who don't deserve it. -- I don't know Rich personally .. I was looking up amp repair in the area and saw this under his website listing. it really eschews an underserved perception. I needed to go threw so many threads to get to the bottom of what has happened. Most of it was just dumb rantings and not very helpful. I also saw that most folks had great experiences only to prove my point of you just putting dirt on someone who doesn't deserve it. Bad form. Take the post down. Not fair. 
post: 3031623, member: 37972"]
wn doing. He has given you are money for the labor. Jez just saying.
[/QUOTE]


----------

