# and.......it's not a flu



## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I woke up middle of the night Sunday/Monday sweating and also uncontrollably shaking like hypothermia. Headache so bad my eyes hurt. I called in to work sick and slept a LOT on Monday. Tuesday, no uncontrollable shivers/shaking, but still had the freezing cold moments and sweating and again, spent much of the day under a blanket sleeping or cat napping. Read a little, but just had no motivation or energy to do much else. Felt better Tuesday around midday so I went to the basement and did some pickup adjusting but even that I found too strenuous and didn't even have the energy to plug in and test. Tuesday night my wife is now dealing with headaches and a little cough. Wednesday morning (today) we take a test........POSITIVE!! FFS. It wasn't a flu, it's the damned COVID19 shit come to pay us a visit. I just got back to work 2 weeks ago after my cycling injury and now I'm sidelined again, with Covid. My wife rarely ever gets sick, and even she called in to work today. That's what makes me feel worse about it. So, I've officially contracted Covid and can say from reading some peoples experiences here, I am dealing with it from the lighter side. It's nowhere near as bad as much of the stories say it is, but it does hit everybody differently. It's a club I had no wish to join, but here I am. Stay safe everybody, it'll get you any way it wants, and there is NOTHING you can do about it. Really. I take every precaution I can, and here I am dealing with it.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Take care, get better et cetera, et cetera.

Sorry man.

By the description of your symptoms (and of many others') I wouldn't know if I had Covid.

At my age, there are so many aches and pains I might not even notice a few new ones.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Thanks. I always keep a small supply of rapid tests at home and have had many negative results with what felt very similar in symptoms. If I’d gone in to work thinking I could tough out a couple days of the flu, I can’t imagine how many coworkers and customers I’d have infected. If in doubt, do a rapid test.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Verne said:


> Thanks. I always keep a small supply of rapid tests at home and have had many negative results with what felt very similar in symptoms. If I’d gone in to work thinking I could tough out a couple days of the flu, I can’t imagine how many coworkers and customers I’d have infected. If in doubt, do a rapid test.


We have some rapid tests in the cupboard, but I work from home so I don't go out among em very often.

Hang in there. If I were you, I'd buy a guitar, LOL.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@Verne Wishing all the best for a quick and uncomplicated recovery.


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## 2N1305 (Nov 2, 2009)

a good, 100 % recovery to you and your wife. Who else is going to ride that bike? LOL


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Wishing you the best bud. Despite all the “its not that bad” talk it is still very serious down the line too.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Milkman said:


> By the description of your symptoms (and of many others') I wouldn't know if I had Covid.
> 
> At my age, there are so many aches and pains I might not even notice a few new ones.


After a certain age, it gets harder and harder to tell the difference between normal health and illness. It's a "signal-detection challenge", and becomes a bit like listening for the phone or the baby crying, when you're in the shower. Or one of those paper cuts where you slice your finger up but don't notice until the end of the day, when you ask yourself "Where and when the hell did THAT happen? I don't recall anything hurting."


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

Verne said:


> I woke up middle of the night Sunday/Monday sweating and also uncontrollably shaking like hypothermia. Headache so bad my eyes hurt. I called in to work sick and slept a LOT on Monday. Tuesday, no uncontrollable shivers/shaking, but still had the freezing cold moments and sweating and again, spent much of the day under a blanket sleeping or cat napping. Read a little, but just had no motivation or energy to do much else. Felt better Tuesday around midday so I went to the basement and did some pickup adjusting but even that I found too strenuous and didn't even have the energy to plug in and test. Tuesday night my wife is now dealing with headaches and a little cough. Wednesday morning (today) we take a test........POSITIVE!! FFS. It wasn't a flu, it's the damned COVID19 shit come to pay us a visit. I just got back to work 2 weeks ago after my cycling injury and now I'm sidelined again, with Covid. My wife rarely ever gets sick, and even she called in to work today. That's what makes me feel worse about it. So, I've officially contracted Covid and can say from reading some peoples experiences here, I am dealing with it from the lighter side. It's nowhere near as bad as much of the stories say it is, but it does hit everybody differently. It's a club I had no wish to join, but here I am. Stay safe everybody, it'll get you any way it wants, and there is NOTHING you can do about it. Really. I take every precaution I can, and here I am dealing with it.


Take care and get well soon


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Just remember, I get the tele. 

Good luck buddy. Don't do what I did and waste covid free time beating 30 year old video games, try and be productive.


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## Pat James (5 mo ago)

Verne said:


> I woke up middle of the night Sunday/Monday sweating and also uncontrollably shaking like hypothermia. Headache so bad my eyes hurt. I called in to work sick and slept a LOT on Monday. Tuesday, no uncontrollable shivers/shaking, but still had the freezing cold moments and sweating and again, spent much of the day under a blanket sleeping or cat napping. Read a little, but just had no motivation or energy to do much else. Felt better Tuesday around midday so I went to the basement and did some pickup adjusting but even that I found too strenuous and didn't even have the energy to plug in and test. Tuesday night my wife is now dealing with headaches and a little cough. Wednesday morning (today) we take a test........POSITIVE!! FFS. It wasn't a flu, it's the damned COVID19 shit come to pay us a visit. I just got back to work 2 weeks ago after my cycling injury and now I'm sidelined again, with Covid. My wife rarely ever gets sick, and even she called in to work today. That's what makes me feel worse about it. So, I've officially contracted Covid and can say from reading some peoples experiences here, I am dealing with it from the lighter side. It's nowhere near as bad as much of the stories say it is, but it does hit everybody differently. It's a club I had no wish to join, but here I am. Stay safe everybody, it'll get you any way it wants, and there is NOTHING you can do about it. Really. I take every precaution I can, and here I am dealing with it.


Get well soon


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I hope you feel better soon. 

I had it back in April, and had my second booster yesterday.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Total bummer that the shot didn't live up to it's hype.
Ride out the storm and get well.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

laristotle said:


> Total bummer that the shot didn't live up to it's hype.
> Ride out the storm and get well.


I think it’s lived up to its hype. I work with large groups of young filthy animals and my partner works postpartum and at a seniors rehab facility. We both had 3 shots and were heavily exposed and never got sick. Both of us were months over due for shots and both just had it and both of us barely even felt like we had a cold.

I’m not a scientist, but I always ask people who’ve had it. How bad they had it and if they had shots and 9/10 people who have had shots had it mildly even when it was in its earlier more potent stages and most of the people I have spoken with who haven’t gotten any shots have been floored by it and then had it many times since.

I take this data anecdotally for all it worth. I’ll take any excuse I can to wear a mask and not have to deal with people lol. The pandemic has been a very positive experience for people like me. Despite hating the loss and pain it has caused a lot of people.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Thanks for all the well wishes all. It’s appreciated. I feel worse for my wife than myself. I am accustomed to sick days now and then. She is not. This is her first sick day this year. It’s hitting her harder I think because she’s usually so resilient.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Look after yourself, man. Had it myself recently. Not fun.


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

I've managed to stay negative so far. With relatives in long term care that won't get visitors if I bring covid home, so I do my best.

Don't discount influenza. I've had it 4x as an adult, 2x got me into the ER. FWIW, influenza is also something I don't want to bring home.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I heard the rapid tests give false negatives because you have to ram the test stick up your nose until you are scratching the edge of your brain and hold it there while wiggling it around for 6 seconds.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Verne said:


> Thanks for all the well wishes all. It’s appreciated. I feel worse for my wife than myself. I am accustomed to sick days now and then. She is not. This is her first sick day this year. It’s hitting her harder I think because she’s usually so resilient.


Women are just much stronger than us when it comes to being sick. I was making meals and changing sheets and bringing meds to my GF before I got it. The second I had it, she became the man of the house and showed me how it’s supposed to be done lol. I became a damsel in distress.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Always12AM said:


> Women are just much stronger than us when it comes to being sick. I was making meals and changing sheets and bringing meds to my GF before I got it. The second I had it, she became the man of the house and showed me how it’s supposed to be done lol. I became a damsel in distress.


It is so true. 

That's the ticket Verne, just play up how terrible you feel. Then your wife's nurturing instinct will take over, she will be distracted and on another positive lift you can get pampered. Sounds like a win to me.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Mark Brown said:


> It is so true.
> 
> That's the ticket Verne, just play up how terrible you feel. Then your wife's nurturing instinct will take over, she will be distracted and on another positive lift you can get pampered. Sounds like a win to me.


If I even scrape my finger I’m going on EI for 8 months. My girlfriend will swim across a frozen lake with pneumonia to break my ex girlfriends windshield for liking a picture on my Instagram in 2018.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

player99 said:


> I heard the rapid tests give false positives because you have to ram the test stick up your nose until you are scratching the edge of your brain and hold it there while wiggling it around for 6 seconds.


I think you meant to say "false negatives". (i.e., people don't get a good enough sample, and so test negative)

I'm getting a little tired of repeating this, but the vaccines WORK. The problem is that more recent virus variants replicate very quickly. A person may have as much of an immune response as is possible to have, thanks to vaccination, but even great immune systems take time to "wake up" in response to a detected pathogen. And by the time they wake up, the virus has replicated enough that people get sick. But because the immune system eventually DOES wake up, it attacks the virus and they don't get VERY sick.

Fundamentally, it's a question of relative timecourse of immune response and viral replication. Viruses can mutate and change their timecourse. Unfortunately, human evolution doesn't change quite that fast, and immune systems can only do what they can do, even when we help them to do as much as they can do.


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## 2N1305 (Nov 2, 2009)

Mark Brown said:


> 30 year old video games,


My closet nerd-self is making me remember the likes of : Pro-AM racing, Kung Fu, Contra, and my favourite, Bionic Commando.

Any Sega or Atari fans out there?

isn't it amazing how a thread's subject can degenerate, mutate, into something else? LOL


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

2N1305 said:


> My closet nerd-self is making me remember the likes of : Pro-AM racing, Kung Fu, Contra, and my favourite, Bionic Commando.
> 
> Any Sega or Atari fans out there?
> 
> isn't it amazing how a thread's subject can degenerate, mutate, into something else? LOL


It was Final Fantasy on NES. When I beat it on my NES the game corrupted and I never got to see the end. It was terribly underwhelming.

Pro-AM racing and Kung Fu were my childhood.

Love you Verne


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Mark Brown said:


> It is so true.
> 
> That's the ticket Verne, just play up how terrible you feel. Then your wife's nurturing instinct will take over, she will be distracted and on another positive lift you can get pampered. Sounds like a win to me.


Reminds me of when I got my nuts sliced, I was not too proud to play that shit up way out of proportion.


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## Stephenlouis (Jun 24, 2019)

I hope it stays mild, and you and your wife recover fast. It is a roulette wheel of a disease and I do not want it again.


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## bigboki (Apr 16, 2015)

Get well quickly and completely. Sending positive wishes and vibes to you and your wife!


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

You'll be ok. Everyone has or will get it eventually. I've had a hatrick of it already. My neighbours are going through it and some family members. Seems fairly mild and passes in three to five days for most homosapiens sapiens.
We'll be aight.


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## MetalTele79 (Jul 20, 2020)

player99 said:


> I heard the rapid tests give false negatives because you have to ram the test stick up your nose until you are scratching the edge of your brain and hold it there while wiggling it around for 6 seconds.


Unfortunately the rapid tests (RAT) give false negatives and positives (more negatives though). I work in corporate health supporting around 10k people and we require our staff to go for a more accurate PCR test when they have symptoms. At work, a negative RAT is not acceptable as confirmation of a positive or negative result.

Verne - Hope you're feeling better soon. It hits everyone a little differently but most people are feeling better after a few days.


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## Brian Johnston (Feb 24, 2019)

Quercetin, NAC, Zinc, Vits D & C and Iodine.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I'm starting to come through the other side now. More energy, less sleeping through the day, but I have the cough now and still "enjoying" the headache. It will subside, but I am semi used to sinus headaches so it'll be easier to deal with. 

@Mark Brown As for video games, I do racing simulators or first person walking horror games. I did try both a couple days ago and my head was not amused. Likely due to my eyes and headache combination. I felt nauseous after 5 mins. I did finish a near 700 page Ann Rule book though.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

MetalTele79 said:


> Unfortunately the rapid tests (RAT) give false negatives and positives (more negatives though). I work in corporate health supporting around 10k people and we require our staff to go for a more accurate PCR test when they have symptoms. At work, a negative RAT is not acceptable as confirmation of a positive or negative result.
> 
> Verne - Hope you're feeling better soon. It hits everyone a little differently but most people are feeling better after a few days.


It's not so much the tests themselves, but rather improper or invalid self-administration, that gives the very-reliable chemistry less than what it needs to work with. The risk is not so much for false positives as for false negatives, due to insufficient sampling of material where the virus could be sitting.

PCR testing IS more reliable, if only because it is not self-administered and subject to the same risks of undersampling. If a rapid test comes up negative, there is still a possibility one is a carrier. But if it comes up positive, the probability it's Covid is MUCH greater, indicating the need for a confirmatory PCR test.

Not a gamer myself, but I enjoy MahJongg solitaire on my tablet. Been playing it often and long enough to recognize the correspondance between my game score and health status. If I can't get all the tiles in under 2:40, I know I'm sick, and should rest up.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

How are the taste buds?


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Paul Running said:


> How are the taste buds?


I have not experienced the loss of taste or smell which I am very thankful for. It is like an extra miserable flu with lingering effects. Day 4 and recovery is slow, but it's there.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Verne said:


> I have not experienced the loss of taste or smell which I am very thankful for. It is like an extra miserable flu with lingering effects. Day 4 and recovery is slow, but it's there.


In recent patient surveys the loss of smell or taste is so extremely low. I want to say, and could be wrong, something like 80th and 30th most reported symptom in vaccinated and unvaccinated respectively. I am 100% sure those numbers are wrong, but I am confident that they are close to what I have read.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Verne said:


> I have not experienced the loss of taste or smell which I am very thankful for. It is like an extra miserable flu with lingering effects. Day 4 and recovery is slow, but it's there.


For us the symptoms were weird. It was pretty mild for me, but I didn't lose taste and smell until after I was testing negative a week later. I never ran a fever either. Maggs had a lingering fever and still, after 3 months, has a cough that just doesn't want to go away. Our personal take-away is that if you get Covid you will know - it's symptoms are similar to other illnesses, but they're not like anything you've ever had before. 

These days, if you're feeling sick the odds are good it's Covid. Test yourself and stay away from others. The "down time" is a lot less than it was before.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

mhammer said:


> I think you meant to say "false negatives". (i.e., people don't get a good enough sample, and so test negative)
> 
> I'm getting a little tired of repeating this, but the vaccines WORK. The problem is that more recent virus variants replicate very quickly. A person may have as much of an immune response as is possible to have, thanks to vaccination, but even great immune systems take time to "wake up" in response to a detected pathogen. And by the time they wake up, the virus has replicated enough that people get sick. But because the immune system eventually DOES wake up, it attacks the virus and they don't get VERY sick.
> 
> Fundamentally, it's a question of relative timecourse of immune response and viral replication. Viruses can mutate and change their timecourse. Unfortunately, human evolution doesn't change quite that fast, and immune systems can only do what they can do, even when we help them to do as much as they can do.


Sure, vaccines are awesome, but when Pfizer just got sued and lost to the tune of 2.3 billion....
I'm sure you saw that on NBC? 

Here's an excerpt from the same article:

"The government said the company promoted four prescription drugs, including the pain killer Bextra, as treatments for medical conditions different from those the drugs had been approved for by federal regulators. Authorities said Pfizer’s salesmen and women created phony doctor requests for medical information in order to send unsolicited information to doctors about unapproved uses and dosages."

Why would anyone trust these fucks? Seriously. Because some asshole politician told you to?

Anyway, I got covid. My healthy body barely noticed - but it must have been the weak covid, right? lol. 

Everyone look down at your stomach right now. You see that gross-ass belly bulge your wife has to ignore while she pushes it up with her forehead? Get in shape you fat fucks. Eat right. 

I'm just kidding this whole post was a joke. Gotcha?


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

Adcandour said:


> Everyone look down at your stomach right now. You see that gross-ass belly bulge your wife has to ignore while she pushes it up with her forehead? Get in shape you fat fucks. Eat right.


When you put it that way it really hits home. I'm going to work on this. Promise!


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Mark Brown said:


> When you put it that way it really hits home.


Especially when one can't see the tip of their dick when standing in front of the urinal. 🤪


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

laristotle said:


> Especially when one can't see the tip of their dick when standing in front of the urinal. 🤪


See that never bothered me. I know it's there.

I mostly think of others 🤣


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Take care.

The omicron had found our place by the end of August…
Was that sick for the first time in my life.
Completely recovered by now.


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

,...just thinking of the past, lol.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Wife and I had it in September, now both sick again with similar symptoms but testing negative. I’m getting sick and tired of being sick and tired.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

After dodging the bullet for the entire covid outbreak, and being tripple vaxed, the wife & I caught it in September as well. Testing negative now, but still coughing a lot and feeling crappy.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Lincoln said:


> After dodging the bullet for the entire covid outbreak, and being tripple vaxed, the wife & I caught it in September as well. Testing negative now, but still coughing a lot and feeling crappy.


Sorry to hear that. You do look a bit yellow.....

Sorry. 

You know, my initial post in this thread was a joke, but not really.

I haven't made a point of getting tested often mostly because I work from home and my wife and I have taken every vaccination we were eligible for. I think I've had four now. I have never tested positive, but I think I have been tested only twice that I remember and both were required to fly into the USA and back early this year. In fact, we both took our flu shots this afternoon.

For all I know I may have had, and recovered from Covid.

If I had it and had fairly mild symptoms, how would I notice?

Open heart surgery in late 2019, type 2 diabetic.....I consider it a victory to be on the right side of the grass on any given day (lowered expectations, LOL).


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Everybody can and mostly will get COVID. For the initial infection, some will have it hard, some won't, vaccine or not. It's your immune system that decides. What it does not decide, is the long version of that mofo.

Good friend of mine, 40 year old top shape girl. Ran 10K to work every day and returned home the same way. She also ran a few Ironman style hilly races of 20-30km. She runs a great business with a dozen employees. Fully vaccinated, she got the bug a year ago and now ...
Brain fog, she sometimes forget to write the pay checks.
Extreme fatigue, she walks 1km, she needs to rest.
Sleeps every afternoons for hours.
Memory loss.
And what else ... she doesn't see the end of it and for a while was really having bad thoughts. Her former life she's afraid, she will never see again. Good thing she is well surrounded.

You DON'T want that to happen to you. So please try as best you can not to catch it.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

BGood said:


> You DON'T want that to happen to you. So please try to not catch it as best you can.


That's pretty much my view of it.

I think I had it Jan 2020, first round of the lucky 19 before the news was out but just a bad 2 week flu is what I thought.
My assistant had it same time, 30 years old and knocked her on her ass real good.
My business partner, her husband had it last year 40 years old fit and they had to take him to the ER.
I'm old but haven't been sick since Jan 2020 so mainly just waitin round to die.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

BGood said:


> Everybody can and mostly will get COVID. For the initial infection, some will have it hard, some won't, vaccine or not. It's your immune system that decides. What it does not decide, is the long version of that mofo.
> 
> Good friend of mine, 40 year old top shape girl. Ran 10K to work every day and returned home the same way. She also ran a few Ironman style hilly races of 20-30km. She runs a great business with a dozen employees. Fully vaccinated, she got the bug a year ago and now ...
> Brain fog, she sometimes forget to write the pay checks.
> ...


Brain fog is a tell tale sign of vax injury. FLCCC on their website has a good protocol for dealing with that.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

HighNoon said:


> *Brain fog is a tell tale sign of vax injury*. FLCCC on their website has a good protocol for dealing with that.


And how exactly does that happen? Are you implying that ALL persons suffering from long-Covid, having brain fog, are all victims of vaccination? And if so, how does that explain persons with similar impairment who were *never* vaccinated, and have the identical symptoms with long-Covid. There's a certain illogic to your suggestion. You're gonna have to clear up that confusion.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

mhammer said:


> And how exactly does that happen? Are you implying that ALL persons suffering from long-Covid, having brain fog, are all victims of vaccination? And if so, how does that explain persons with similar impairment who were *never* vaccinated, and have the identical symptoms with long-Covid. There's a certain illogic to your suggestion. You're gonna have to clear up that confusion.


Why look....it's Mr. THE VACCINES WORK. Yeah you're right they work. They work at blood clots, they work at outperforming your immune system, they work at disrupting your endocrine system. They work at passing on the gift of myocarditis to young men around the world. They work at disrupting the menstrual cycle and they're wonderful at inducing an increasing number of stillbirths. They work at viral reactivation, like shingles, guillian barre syndrome re-appearing, and even those dormant cancers because they turn off the TLR7 and TLR8 receptors. They work at, now pay attention....at passing the blood brain barrier. You know, the thing that regular 'vaccines' don't do. Lipid nano particles....PEG and others. It's the happening thing. Hence the brain fog....the shaky limbs, the inability to walk, the Bell's Palsy. And sometimes people just die. Sorry dude....you've been played, you've been lied to and you swallowed it all. Now isn't it time for you to go get another jab. Enjoy...it's safe and effective.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Excellent


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

HighNoon said:


> Why look....it's Mr. THE VACCINES WORK. Yeah you're right they work. They work at blood clots, they work at outperforming your immune system, they work at disrupting your endocrine system. They work at passing on the gift of myocarditis to young men around the world. They work at disrupting the menstrual cycle and they're wonderful at inducing an increasing number of stillbirths. They work at viral reactivation, like shingles, guillian barre syndrome re-appearing, and even those dormant cancers because they turn off the TLR7 and TLR8 receptors. They work at, now pay attention....at passing the blood brain barrier. You know, the thing that regular 'vaccines' don't do. Lipid nano particles....PEG and others. It's the happening thing. Hence the brain fog....the shaky limbs, the inability to walk, the Bell's Palsy. And sometimes people just die. Sorry dude....you've been played, you've been lied to and you swallowed it all. Now isn't it time for you to go get another jab. Enjoy...it's safe and effective.


Yup,... my brother-in-laws sister, Lynn, had her fourth jab 2 months ago. I received a call from my sister a month ago to inform me Lynn lost her ability to walk and now is in a wheelchair and pretty much bed ridden. No previous history of neurological health issues or any other major disease that can be attributed to her present state. 

The woman had just retired a few years ago and now this is how she enters into her golden years. All her dreams of travelling the world just went up in smoke,... and for what? Who will come to her rescue?,... Health Canada, WHO, Pfizer?,... I F'n doubt it.

You think I'm pissed about it?,... you should hear what her husband and two sons have to say about it. It's best they never come face to face with anyone who represents the three aforementioned organizations.

Anyone thinks I'm BS'ing I'll gladly ask if Lynn would take the time to chat with ya. This shitt is real for some people and I'm just telling this sad outcome because I KNOW you won't read about it in any local rag.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

To Midnight and HighNoon...I have similar stories regarding inoculation (vaccine is a poor choice of words) injuries involving friends and family. I share your concern and disappointment regarding this unnecessary suffering. It`s disappointing to see how easily the public can be manipulated into making rash decisions...based on corporate/profit based science and shreiking politicians, of course.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Holy crap. I just popped in here to see how Verne was doing. I thought all this was behind us.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)




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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Guitar101 said:


> Holy crap. I just popped in here to see how Verne was doing. I thought all this was behind us.


Hey, thanks. Doing much better. It's manifested into a cough and some breathing difficulty, but nothing excessive. I don't think I'll be jumping on the bike yet, but the stairs in the house are helping. I hope this afternoon I feel well enough that I can get back to work tomorrow. It's my manager's discretion mind you. I definitely feel better than my wife does. She's getting hit harder than I.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Thanks for the update. Sorry about your wife. I hope she feels better soon.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

People seem to confuse their (often fully justified) disdain for "big pharma's" business practices with the role of evidence and regulatory bodies. Nothing gets out for public distribution, as if it were grandma's home remedy at a flea market, unless there is evidence from multiple sources to back it up. THAT's the role of the evaluators at Health Canada and Public Health. They're NOT going to spend the money on the stuff and staff UNLESS there is clear evidence, with gobs of data from multiple independent sources, that there is much greater benefit than potential harm. It's ironic that so many were complaining about how long it was taking for Health Canada to approve things. The delay is not because they didn't feel like it or just didn't get around to it. And it is often the case that people will whine about something being approved in this country or that, and still isn't available in Canada. Health Canada and PHAC do NOT simply agree with and blindly accept what other countries have done. We engage in our own independent evaluation. Sometimes it lines up with other countries, and sometimes it doesn't. Potential differences are a matter of how the evidence is evaluated, but also what evidence was available to be evaluated (i.e., new studies/evidence becoming available after another country's regulators have rendered a decision). NO regulatory body is going to approve a medical treatment on the basis of the provider declaring that they "checked it out and it's okay". Things are often sent back to irritated manufacturers with a request for more or better data, or at the very least more information about test methodology.

Citizens expect federal regulatory bodies/agencies to protect them, and to the best of anyone's ability, they do. They are the "wall" between the manufacturers and the public. What they _don't_ do is rely on anecdote.

But, as is too often the case, here we have strayed into the political. So, a speedy and full recovery, Verne.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

mhammer said:


> People seem to confuse their (often fully justified) disdain for "big pharma's" business practices with the role of evidence and regulatory bodies. Nothing gets out for public distribution, as if it were grandma's home remedy at a flea market, unless there is evidence from multiple sources to back it up. THAT's the role of the evaluators at Health Canada and Public Health. They're NOT going to spend the money on the stuff and staff UNLESS there is clear evidence, with gobs of data from multiple independent sources, that there is much greater benefit than potential harm. It's ironic that so many were complaining about how long it was taking for Health Canada to approve things. The delay is not because they didn't feel like it or just didn't get around to it. And it is often the case that people will whine about something being approved in this country or that, and still isn't available in Canada. Health Canada and PHAC do NOT simply agree with and blindly accept what other countries have done. We engage in our own independent evaluation. Sometimes it lines up with other countries, and sometimes it doesn't. Potential differences are a matter of how the evidence is evaluated, but also what evidence was available to be evaluated (i.e., new studies/evidence becoming available after another country's regulators have rendered a decision). NO regulatory body is going to approve a medical treatment on the basis of the provider declaring that they "checked it out and it's okay". Things are often sent back to irritated manufacturers with a request for more or better data, or at the very least more information about test methodology.
> 
> Citizens expect federal regulatory bodies/agencies to protect them, and to the best of anyone's ability, they do. They are the "wall" between the manufacturers and the public. What they _don't_ do is rely on anecdote.
> 
> But, as is too often the case, here we have strayed into the political. So, a speedy and full recovery, Verne.


You trust this guy. I've listened to him since the beginning and enjoyed his balanced and informed and calm reports. Didn't agree with his take on the jab roll out, but I still listen to him. You don't want to hear anecdotal and trust the authorities....well here you go. Overall mortality increase. This is the gold standard of epidemiological studies. 1800 excess deaths per week....and the questions keep mounting. Enjoy.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Campbell, as always, makes some strong, and rational points, but I can't see *any* connection whatsoever, between what he's saying and what you contend about vaccines.

A large segment of these excess deaths were preventable...*IF* people were able and willing to go in for a consult, and preventative action. But they didn't, because often they _couldn't_, due to lockdowns and staff shortages. or simply worry about contagion. This lines up with recent breast cancer data indicating that, although early screening appeared to show no reduction in cases and mortality, nudging screening to later ages resulted in a big jump in women not being initially diagnosed until their cancer had progressed dangerously far. It's one of the harder things for governments and voters to swallow, but *anything* that gets in the way of early detection, be it distance, out-of-pocket payments, age eligibility, staff shortages (whether caused by burnout, or disincentives to entering/remaining in the field), or lockdowns, etc., will increase the risk of morbidity and mortality.

Campbell's point (Banerjee's actually) was essentially that if authorities could have reasonably anticipated that if people were being prevented from early diagnosis and prophylaxis, that they could have planned for it. There is also something to be said for authorities' (and insurance companies') resistance to the notion of "long Covid" and the indirect consequences of having this or that physiological system or organ damaged by Covid. Understandably, the sheer volume of Covid cases (and a not insignificant share of them among people who were simply uncooperative and eschewed preventative actions for whatever foolish and underinformed reasons) focussed everyone's attention on managing THAT immediate caseload, and away from the indirect caseload that was sure to come. It had absolutely nothing to do with hypothesized negative effects of vaccines, nor did Campbell come within miles of suggesting so.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

mhammer said:


> Campbell, as always, makes some strong, and rational points, but I can't see *any* connection whatsoever, between what he's saying and what you contend about vaccines.
> 
> A large segment of these excess deaths were preventable...*IF* people were able and willing to go in for a consult, and preventative action. But they didn't, because often they _couldn't_, due to lockdowns and staff shortages. or simply worry about contagion. This lines up with recent breast cancer data indicating that, although early screening appeared to show no reduction in cases and mortality, nudging screening to later ages resulted in a big jump in women not being initially diagnosed until their cancer had progressed dangerously far. It's one of the harder things for governments and voters to swallow, but *anything* that gets in the way of early detection, be it distance, out-of-pocket payments, age eligibility, staff shortages (whether caused by burnout, or disincentives to entering/remaining in the field), or lockdowns, etc., will increase the risk of morbidity and mortality.
> 
> Campbell's point (Banerjee's actually) was essentially that if authorities could have reasonably anticipated that if people were being prevented from early diagnosis and prophylaxis, that they could have planned for it. There is also something to be said for authorities' (and insurance companies') resistance to the notion of "long Covid" and the indirect consequences of having this or that physiological system or organ damaged by Covid. Understandably, the sheer volume of Covid cases (and a not insignificant share of them among people who were simply uncooperative and eschewed preventative actions for whatever foolish and underinformed reasons) focussed everyone's attention on managing THAT immediate caseload, and away from the indirect caseload that was sure to come. It had absolutely nothing to do with hypothesized negative effects of vaccines, nor did Campbell come within miles of suggesting so.


What Campbell is clearly saying is the failure of health agencies across the board in every aspect of reaction to the situation and the resulting actions taken. He'll be waiting years for any 'official' claim of responsibility.

So lockdowns bad. That was done by authorities, the people you suggest we listen to, who did their best. There was no debate and in fact it was a one way street.

Long Covid. Any respiratory illness can have long term consequences, from pneumonia as a kid to whatever the latest flu is going 'round. The only way to know for sure is testing for the spike vs nucleocapsid. The latter shows you had covid, the previous that it's directly from the jab. If you don't look for it in autopsies you won't find it. And they don't want to find it.

And again, regular vaccines don't pass the blood brain barrier. These injections do. You are a test animal.


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## puzz (5 mo ago)

HighNoon said:


> Why look....it's Mr. THE VACCINES WORK. Yeah you're right they work. They work at blood clots, they work at outperforming your immune system, they work at disrupting your endocrine system. They work at passing on the gift of myocarditis to young men around the world. They work at disrupting the menstrual cycle and they're wonderful at inducing an increasing number of stillbirths. They work at viral reactivation, like shingles, guillian barre syndrome re-appearing, and even those dormant cancers because they turn off the TLR7 and TLR8 receptors. They work at, now pay attention....at passing the blood brain barrier. You know, the thing that regular 'vaccines' don't do. Lipid nano particles....PEG and others. It's the happening thing. Hence the brain fog....the shaky limbs, the inability to walk, the Bell's Palsy. And sometimes people just die. Sorry dude....you've been played, you've been lied to and you swallowed it all. Now isn't it time for you to go get another jab. Enjoy...it's safe and effective.


Interesting. Are you in the medical field or is this more of an opinion post?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

HighNoon said:


> What Campbell is clearly saying is the failure of health agencies across the board in every aspect of reaction to the situation and the resulting actions taken. He'll be waiting years for any 'official' claim of responsibility.
> 
> So lockdowns bad. That was done by authorities, the people you suggest we listen to, who did their best. There was no debate and in fact it was a one way street.


No, he never said that, and _would_ never say that. What the person he is citing was saying that was that, while lockdowns were necessary to prevent spread (i.e., governments did SOME of the right things), the failure to plan for the _spin-off effects_ of lockdowns on public health was short-sighted.

Let us say you need somewhere to live. You rent a place whose cost is exhorbitant, but there is simply _nothing_ else available, and for whatever reasons you can't leave the region. So you have no choice but to take the hit. You now find yourself with very little left over for all the things you were accustomed to, like internet, the occasional meal out, new socks and undies once or twice a year, and better insurance, etc. You have enough for the very basics, but all your current obligations don't leave *any* slack, and you have to give up some things. You're certainly not to blame for the cost of rent or food, but maybe you could have planned a little better for the future, so that instead of all those nice-to-haves (which may have been entirely reasonable and not extravagant in any sense), you saved a bit for tough times like now.

Governments found themselves in the identical scenario. They had NO choice at all but to pursue lockdowns, but they _could_ have had some backup systems in place, or at least planned for them, in anticipation for what could happen if ALL their health resources had to be allocated to one big thing. THAT is the complaint Campbell is noting. Maintaining the public's health health requires a big net, not a pen-knife to address individual little details. But, big picture thinking is not everyone's strength, including those in public office.

Connecting this in any way to immunization or any public health programs is an inference that you seem to be drawing on your own.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

mhammer said:


> No, he never said that, and _would_ never say that. What the person he is citing was saying that was that, while lockdowns were necessary to prevent spread (i.e., governments did SOME of the right things), the failure to plan for the _spin-off effects_ of lockdowns on public health was short-sighted.
> 
> Let us say you need somewhere to live. You rent a place whose cost is exhorbitant, but there is simply _nothing_ else available, and for whatever reasons you can't leave the region. So you have no choice but to take the hit. You now find yourself with very little left over for all the things you were accustomed to, like internet, the occasional meal out, new socks and undies once or twice a year, and better insurance, etc. You have enough for the very basics, but all your current obligations don't leave *any* slack, and you have to give up some things. You're certainly not to blame for the cost of rent or food, but maybe you could have planned a little better for the future, so that instead of all those nice-to-haves (which may have been entirely reasonable and not extravagant in any sense), you saved a bit for tough times like now.
> 
> ...


Lockdowns only postpone the inevitable. You can hide in your basement, but eventually you're going to get it.....whatever the flu du jour or pathogen is out there. Many epidemiologists said just that. They were ignored. Lockdowns are the last thing you do....that's for stuff like Ebola. But the effects of lockdowns, on the economy and the mental health of citizens is well known. And considering the CFR for covid was relatively low, we (those in power) did everything wrong. Like I said there was no debate and no one followed the pandemic plan.

You got a never ending stream of fear....day in day out. The messaging was through the roof. This can only have been done on purpose. And then people lined up like cattle for the jabs. Take the shot and let's get back to normal, or the new normal. This was the people's way out and gov't rewarded them with a little card, an app, saying you can be part of society now because you took something without any long term safety study.....but believe us, it's safe and effective.

What Campbell alludes to, and you can see how disturbed he is, because all his faith in the system he loves has been put in question. It always comes down to All Cause Mortality. And now it's higher than the height of the pandemic when people were getting hit hard. This is after all the lockdowns, and mask wearing and of course, all the jabs. 

What could be it be....my oh my, enquiring minds want to know. Let's ask the elephant in the room.


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## RJP110 (Sep 15, 2020)

“A large segment of these excess deaths were preventable...*IF* people were able and willing to go in for a consult, and preventative action. But they didn't, because often they _couldn't_, due to lockdowns and staff shortages. or simply worry about contagion.”

@mhammer No, this is just pure speculation and makes very little sense. Of course some of these deaths are in relation to that, but we already were seeing this near the end of 2020. The U.S. SARI is one of many reports done on CV19 mortality. 2020/2021 there’s an increase in COVID-19 related excess deaths, but roughly 25% of all the excess mortality was not COVID-19 related. This suggested that CV NPI’s such as lockdowns were already having a strong impact on excess death. And the ages most impacted were 55 and above.

The current excess death data shows a DOUBLE in expected mortality in the 20-55 age. Some of these are mental health related and cancer etc but this was also the case in 2020/2021. But in 2022 there’s an alarming increase in cardiac deaths in this age group. This is not the normal demographic impacted by heart disease or even cancer. There is a clear signal that something is going on and needs to be examined carefully and openly. Correlation does not equal causation but again, there is a very strong signal that something is amiss.

Can I say with certainty that all these deaths are due to the Vax? Nope. But you also cannot say with certainty they are not. NO ONE is even acknowledging this finding yet alone analyzing it. Just my opinion, but dismissing unexpected deaths in an unexpected age that align perfectly with the mass roll out of a therapeutic based on new technology with zero long term safety data is very dangerous.

_EDIT_. Apologies to @Verne for derailing your thread. A speedy recovery to you and yours.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

HighNoon said:


> Lockdowns only postpone the inevitable. You can hide in your basement, but eventually you're going to get it.....whatever the flu du jour or pathogen is out there.


Agreed. Maggs and I managed to avoid it for, what, 2 and a half years and then bingo - her friend with a "cold" comes to my gig. Thankfully, it's the weaker Omicron, we were vaxxed, and/or we were lucky or healthy enough. Several counties out there tried to seal their borders (Sweden, Thailand, New Zealand, ...) but it got in and the end result was pretty much the same.

Early on I believed in "flattening the curve" and "herd immunity" and "stopping transmission" - now I believe that we take whatever precautions suits us (for me that's getting jabbed and being antisocial) and we ride the storm out.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

******


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Had it last January--in some ways I've been sicker (pneumonia and bad colds)
But it totally wiped me out for a couple of weeks.
And I wa sstill tired for months afterwards
Worst part was I couldn't sleep for more than an hour & a half or so at first--so that made the tiredness worse.

Vitamin C, Vitamin D & zinc did help.

As well as having meals dropped off...

Hope you get better soon, and recover quickly.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

hey @Verne 

How are you feeling?


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I am doing better. Returning to work this morning. I expect it to be less than a usual day. Cough persisting, and shortness of breath. Coupled with my leg injury, I expect to be a tad slow for a short while. I also don't plan on making sure I am anything but comfortable. No way I am pushing myself and putting myself into distress. Thanks for asking. Every day is just a little bit better than the day before.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Verne said:


> I am doing better. Returning to work this morning. I expect it to be less than a usual day. Cough persisting, and shortness of breath. Coupled with my leg injury, I expect to be a tad slow for a short while. I also don't plan on making sure I am anything but comfortable. No way I am pushing myself and putting myself into distress. Thanks for asking. Every day is just a little bit better than the day before.


Good. I hope it all becomes a memory soon.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Hope you are feeling better Verne.

Well I've been 'sick' since 2 Sundays ago. It's not covid but there is this RSV Virus that is going around here right now. Called my dentist to cancel my appointment and the person said, yeah lots of people having the same symptoms as you. Which is cough, more cough, then phlegm and more phlegm. LOL I feel fatigued too. I have now passed it on to my wife. I cancelled our gig last Saturday as I was just feeling terrible but with no flu or anything else. Hopefully this goes away before the weekend as we have a gig and a recording session coming up.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Verne said:


> I am doing better. Returning to work this morning. I expect it to be less than a usual day. Cough persisting, and shortness of breath. Coupled with my leg injury, I expect to be a tad slow for a short while. I also don't plan on making sure I am anything but comfortable. No way I am pushing myself and putting myself into distress. Thanks for asking. Every day is just a little bit better than the day before.


Good thing you don't play for the BC Lions. They're going to need all team members in tip-top shape when they face the Bombers this weekend!


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

@Chito take care and rest my friend. I hope you are on the wellness path in good time.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

You’re about 1/2 done your day.

How ya holding up?


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

It’s tough. Tired and breathing just isn’t as it should. I’ll survive though.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Verne said:


> @Chito take care and rest my friend. I hope you are on the wellness path in good time.


Thanks! Get better Verne!


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