# Another Disappearance



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I just wonder what the heck is going on in this world.
My daughter has a very good friend who's father has gone missing in Brantford. 
He went in to work at 5:30 am yesterday morning, (works downtown Brantford) and was only there a few minutes. He set his car keys and cell phone on his desk and told others in his office he was stepping out and would be back in a few minutes. That was the last anyone heard from him. Due to the circumstances I doubt very much that there was any type of medical distress as he'd have most likely been found by now. 
Hoping and praying for the best but typically these things don't turn out well.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

I hope everything turns out OK for your daughters friend. It's not the same world we use to live in when we were kids.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

TA462 said:


> I hope everything turns out OK for your daughters friend. It's not the same world we use to live in when we were kids.


We always worry about our small children being abducted and for good reason. But from Tim Bosma to the family in Calgary not even adults are safe. How can we hope to protect our children?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> We always worry about our small children being abducted and for good reason. But from Tim Bosma to the family in Calgary not even adults are safe. How can we hope to protect our children?



Wow. I saw the article. Well hopefully everything's ok. I'm not paranoid, but likely due to the amount of travel I do, I am very careful about what's around me, who's behind me, et cetera.

But, we're still all at risk.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

TA462 said:


> I hope everything turns out OK for your daughters friend. It's not the same world we use to live in when we were kids.


Yes, your are right, it's not even close.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

This one's a bit strange.

He took a bus to Hamilton and then another bus to.......?

Seems like he just decided to leave.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

TA462 said:


> I hope everything turns out OK for your daughters friend. It's not the same world we use to live in when we were kids.


I know that's the perception, but I wonder if statistically its really true.
ppl went missing, kids got abducted etc back then too. It just didn't hit all the major news outlets 4 hours later like it does today.

In this story I wonder if the guy just got sick of the rat race and thought "f-it, I need to re-boot my life".
Before I had my daughter, I thought about it a few times. Screw the boring dead end job, mortgage, etc ....just , move to key west or mexico or something and figure things out from there.
In the modern world, its easy to feel trapped.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...an-last-seen-at-hamilton-go-station-1.2708868


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

TA462 said:


> It's not the same world we use to live in when we were kids.


Actually, it's the very same world in most respects, except for one big difference: we find out about _everything_, all the time, in the most lurid detail. "When we were kids" there was no 24hr news cycle, and lurid details were generally the sort of thing that might show up in crime mags or _Allo Police_, but hardly anywhere else. You certainly wouldn't see any references to sexual assault or beheadings or details of a crime scene in the newspaper, and there was no Nancy Grace to be blathering on ad nauseum. No Christie Blatchford, either.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

Milkman said:


> This one's a bit strange.
> 
> He took a bus to Hamilton and then another bus to.......?
> 
> Seems like he just decided to leave.


I thought it was fishy that he's leave his phone and keys behind. He's not gone, but he's leavin'


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Actually, it's the very same world in most respects, except for one big difference: we find out about _everything_, all the time, in the most lurid detail. "When we were kids" there was no 24hr news cycle, and lurid details were generally the sort of thing that might show up in crime mags or _Allo Police_, but hardly anywhere else. You certainly wouldn't see any references to sexual assault or beheadings or details of a crime scene in the newspaper, and there was no Nancy Grace to be blathering on ad nauseum. No Christie Blatchford, either.


That's my hunch too, but without comparative statistics, whos to say?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Well, we do know that people who watch more television tend to provide higher estimates (and generally overestimates) of the prevalence of crime in their area. This is a well-established and replicated finding.

Of course, all those stats and research come from a decade ago when "watching television" was something all age-ranges would do, and was easily quantifiable in hours per day. Given how fragmented screen-related information-sourcing is these days, I have no idea how one would derive a valid and reliable quantifiable index to compare against 5, 10, 20 years ago, or compare elderly shut-ins against young adults living in res. People get their "information" about what the world is like from a much broader range of sources, in a more fragmented way, and it tends to be differentiated along age lines.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Well, we do know that people who watch more television tend to provide higher estimates (and generally overestimates) of the prevalence of crime in their area. This is a well-established and replicated finding.
> 
> Of course, all those stats and research come from a decade ago when "watching television" was something all age-ranges would do, and was easily quantifiable in hours per day. Given how fragmented screen-related information-sourcing is these days, I have no idea how one would derive a valid and reliable quantifiable index to compare against 5, 10, 20 years ago, or compare elderly shut-ins against young adults living in res. People get their "information" about what the world is like from a much broader range of sources, in a more fragmented way, and it tends to be differentiated along age lines.


I don't mean statistics on tv, that's merely a theoretical explanation for the real question: do more adults/children etc disappear now than did x decades ago? 
So whats needed are stats on the number of disappearances then vs now, factoring population growth as well I suppose.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Milkman said:


> This one's a bit strange.
> 
> He took a bus to Hamilton and then another bus to.......?
> 
> Seems like he just decided to leave.


Looks like he's on his way home now.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

guitarman2 said:


> Looks like he's on his way home now.


Pretty F'd story.


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## stringer (Jun 17, 2009)

mhammer said:


> Actually, it's the very same world in most respects, except for one big difference: we find out about _everything_, all the time, in the most lurid detail. "When we were kids" there was no 24hr news cycle, and lurid details were generally the sort of thing that might show up in crime mags or _Allo Police_, but hardly anywhere else. You certainly wouldn't see any references to sexual assault or beheadings or details of a crime scene in the newspaper, and there was no Nancy Grace to be blathering on ad nauseum. No Christie Blatchford, either.



Yes I believe the 24 hour news cycle has warped our collective perception of reality in many ways. On a per capita basis violent crime is the lowest in recorded history, at least that's what I read on the internet so you know it has to be true. On a serious note, I did try a search but the only relevant info related to the murder rate in New York city. It's lower now on a per capita basis than in the 1990's.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> Looks like he's on his way home now.


Well, I'm glad it's turning out well. Who among us has never considered walking away?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

As for the story that prompted the thread, do some reading on fugue states ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugue_state ). They aren't always an explanation for disappearances, but they sometimes are.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i have a friend who's mom did that twice.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

mhammer said:


> As for the story that prompted the thread, do some reading on fugue states ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugue_state ). They aren't always an explanation for disappearances, but they sometimes are.


Nice. Next time my wife asks me where the hell I was, I simply reply, "Fugue".


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> i have a friend who's mom did that twice.


Some folks are like that, and sometimes with very good reason. Many of the various kinds of dissociative disorders are a sort of "psychic Mulligan", where the individual has so much weighing down on them (and sometimes it can be abuse, or something like that), that the most straightforward way to escape it is to simply not be yourself, and show up in another town under another identity. In other instances, like the so-called "multiple personality", the person essentially becomes someone else, but remains where they are, instead of leaving their current milieu.

It happens. Not all THAT often, but when someone suddenly disappears, and there appears to be no trace of foul play, nor any reason why they might take off for insurance money or some similar deceptive motive, my thoughts turn to the possibility of a fugue state. I seem to recall the case a decade, or so back, of an Alberta city councillor showing up months later in the US after having mysteriously disappeared.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Milkman said:


> Well, I'm glad it's turning out well. Who among us has never considered walking away?


Me.

I never thought that there were any circumstances in which people wouldn't deserve an explanation at the very least. However, I do think that anyone who does this has a mental problem (if only temporary) and shouldn't be judged too harshly.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

smorgdonkey said:


> Me.
> 
> I never thought that there were any circumstances in which people wouldn't deserve an explanation at the very least. However, I do think that anyone who does this has a mental problem (if only temporary) and shouldn't be judged too harshly.


Well, aren't you special.

I suppose you've never contemplated suicide either.

There's a pretty big distinction between thinking about what it would be like and doing it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

But smorg is actually right. I don't think he was being glib. If anything, he was implying that WE shouldn't be glib, and that when people do things that seem jarringly weird, they don't just do it because they feel like it, on a whim. They do it because they're _driven to it_.

And yes, some folks mull over taking desperate actions more than some other folks do. There is a broad spectrum of individual differences in the extent to which we experience or can control "intrusive thoughts". Folks with OCD, folks with clinical depression, have a difficult time keeping certain conscious thoughts out of their heads. Folks with Tourette's have a hard time keeping unintended actions out of their behaviour. Folks with schizophrenia have a difficult time with keeping boundaries between conscious and unconscious processing. Folks with ADD have a hard time keeping their attention focussed on one thing. Older adults tend to be more distracted by the peripheral.

But some folks, lucky bastards that they are, don't have difficulties with much or any of that. How that happens is a mystery, but it happens.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

mhammer said:


> But smorg is actually right. I don't think he was being glib. If anything, he was implying that WE shouldn't be glib, and that when people do things that seem jarringly weird, they don't just do it because they feel like it, on a whim. They do it because they're _driven to it_.
> 
> And yes, some folks mull over taking desperate actions more than some other folks do. There is a broad spectrum of individual differences in the extent to which we experience or can control "intrusive thoughts". Folks with OCD, folks with clinical depression, have a difficult time keeping certain conscious thoughts out of their heads. Folks with Tourette's have a hard time keeping unintended actions out of their behaviour. Folks with schizophrenia have a difficult time with keeping boundaries between conscious and unconscious processing. Folks with ADD have a hard time keeping their attention focussed on one thing. Older adults tend to be more distracted by the peripheral.
> 
> But some folks, lucky bastards that they are, don't have difficulties with much or any of that. How that happens is a mystery, but it happens.


i don't think you have to have a mental illness in order to get sick of your life and want to walk away from it all.
I personally think its terribly irresponsible and inconsiderate, but not necessarily something indicative of a disease.
Although the current trend is to label anyone experiencing a challenging life event even if temporary ie like stress with some sort of clinical tag.

and lets not forget, there are some portions of the population where it isn't uncommon for a dad for example, to simply walk out on his family. Id hardly call this a mental illness (other than maybe asshole-itis).


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Milkman said:


> Well, aren't you special.
> 
> I suppose you've never contemplated suicide either.
> 
> There's a pretty big distinction between thinking about what it would be like and doing it.


Well, aren't you irritable.

"Considering" it and "thinking about what it would be like" are equal? Ok. If one thinks that those two things mean the same then so be it. 

I think that considering something is the act of weighing whether or not I will do something, whereas thinking about what it would be like is something completely different. I can think about what it would be like to have one leg but I am not going to consider it. I answered like it was an open question as it was worded. 

If that's 'special' then I guess so.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Diablo said:


> i don't think you have to have a mental illness in order to get sick of your life and want to walk away from it all.
> I personally think its terribly irresponsible and inconsiderate, but not necessarily something indicative of a disease.
> Although the current trend is to label anyone experiencing a challenging life event even if temporary ie like stress with some sort of clinical tag.
> 
> and lets not forget, there are some portions of the population where it isn't uncommon for a dad for example, to simply walk out on his family. Id hardly call this a mental illness (other than maybe asshole-itis).


One needs to distinguish between significant impairments in the ability to think or think straight, of clinical severity, and difficulties in coping. There are plenty of folks who, for a wide array of treatable and untreatable biological reasons, have an enormously hard time thinking or thinking straight. But there is an even larger segment of the population who simply have difficulties in coping effectively with whatever life is presenting them. They may hold up well when everything is more or less going their way, but we all know life ain't like that all the time.

In many instances, one might say that people who grow up in families that don't cope effectively, will not be particularly good copers when they grow up, either. One needs to consider that when those around you aren't great copers, two consequences arise: 1) they're not teaching you effective coping skills, and 2) they're teaching you ineffective coping skills. So, as one example, growing up in a household fraught with alcoholism, or any other substance abuse, is generally a poor learning environment for acquiring effective coping skills. Sadly, homes/families with poor coping skills tend to be "the gift that keeps on giving", with generation after generation teaching the things they shouldn't, and failing to teach the things they should. We might easily classify it as "a family history of depression", or "a family history of alcoholism". but what it really is, underneath, is a family that couldn't cope its way out of a wet paper bag, and that failure to cope with stress expresses itself in booze, or depression, or anger management issues, or whatever. 

I'm not blaming anyone, or casting scorn. It's just one of those tragedies you see happening, again and again, and feel helpless to fix. Happily, some folks manage to overcome that hurdle, and climb out of that pit. I lament for those that never do.


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Milkman said:


> Well, aren't you special.
> 
> I suppose you've never contemplated suicide either.
> 
> There's a pretty big distinction between thinking about what it would be like and doing it.


WTF, you say that like it's a normal reaction to stress and everyone does it??? there's plenty of people who've never contemplated ditching their family or suicide, me included...


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

"psychic Mulligan"
My next band name


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Me three.

"Thought" about, sure, after every major argument 

"Considered" it, never.



Jimmy_D said:


> WTF, you say that like it's a normal reaction to stress and everyone does it??? there's plenty of people who've never contemplated ditching their family or suicide, me included...


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

*Good news!!


John Thomas Lavoie, missing Brantford man, found in Nova Scotia*

*Police were speaking to Lavoie's wife when he called her four days after disappearing*

CBC News Posted: Jul 16, 2014 1:28 PM ET Last Updated: Jul 17, 2014 4:39 PM ET









John Thomas Lavoie, also known as Tommy, was captured on surveillance video at Brantford and Hamilton bus stations shortly after he left his workplace on July 14. He was eventually located in Nova Scotia (Supplied by Brantford Police Service)

An Ontario man reported missing since Monday has been located in Nova Scotia after he called his wife while she was in the middle of a conversation with police about his disappearance. 
A Brantford, Ont., detective was speaking with the wife of John Thomas Lavoie​ when he phoned from Nova Scotia, four days after his disappearance, to tell her he was physically OK and is returning home. 
Police had been reviewing video surveillance in Hamilton of Lavoie, also known as Tommy, buying a bus ticket at the Go Transit station on Hunter Street.
Lavoie left his workplace in Brantford on Monday at 5:30 a.m.








Family members and police were concerned for Lavoie's well-being. (Submitted by Brantford Police Services)

Based on the investigation, police believed Lavoie may have been headed to Nova Scotia and were concerned about his well-being. He doesn't have family living there, nor is it believed he has ever travelled to the Maritime province in the past. 
The motivation for the sudden, unannounced trip remains unknown. He wasn't seen carrying any luggage or personal belongings with him.
It is out of character for Lavoie not to be in contact with his family for so long, police said. 
Police said they would not comment further, out of respect for the Lavoie family. 

Cheers

Dave


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## Guest (Jul 19, 2014)

mid-life crisis.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

got a wife and kids in baltimore, jack
i went out for a ride, and i never went back
like a river that don't know where it's flowin
i took a wrong turn and i just kept goin

ughhhh cant stand the song, or the artist, but the lyrics fit. 
once, a long time ago, i was involved wit a woman who was bad news. for whatever reason i just couldn't quit her. so one night i got her real drunk. when she passed out, i loaded my clothes, my tools, and my music into the car. then i drove till i didn't have enough money to get home. sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. 


when my buddies mom did it, she was just someone else for several years, living in another place having a totally unrelated life. they said it was some kind of mental illness.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

another elementary school girl disappeared last week on her way home from school in Japan again, there have been too many over the past few years....seems to be a lot of people with psychological problems in this country.....anyways, this one ended well....she was found in a 30+ year old guy`s house alive and well, most of the time they find their bodies.
random stabbings, stalking, murder, white collar crime, and recently guys driving their cars and losing control while under the influence of the new designer herbs available in stores....I mean it happened almost every day for a while over the past couple of weeks....in several places in Japan....Japan is changing and the police need more of a presence on the streets instead of sitting in their little boxes waiting for phone calls.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

heard another story this week on the news over here.....theres a town in Aomori prefecture that has 20 city councillors....15 of which have been arrested for buying votes in a recent election so they can`t even hold meetings since at least half have to be present to make a meeting official. I actually think this one is funny, in a warped kind of way...but it just reinforces my view that Japan, in many ways, is no better or worse than anywhere else. There may have been honor in this country and some might still exist, but I don`t see it much.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Well, maybe they will just run away from it all!

HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

So what was the deal with this Lavoie guy, just needed a vacation?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Diablo said:


> So what was the deal with this Lavoie guy, just needed a vacation?


As my daughter is very close to his daughter she does have the full story but I don't feel right betraying any confidence of what my daughter has told me. The family wishes this to stay a personal thing. All I can really say is it was a stress related breakdown.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> got a wife and kids in baltimore, jack
> i went out for a ride, and i never went back
> like a river that don't know where it's flowin
> i took a wrong turn and i just kept goin
> ...


Dissociative disorders are just a more extreme variant of what everyone normally does when faced with a seemingly unavoidable threat/stressor.

Consider. You don't like needles. BUT you have to go get some labwork done, and go in to give them a couple tubes of the good stuff. You don't want to see the needle go in your arm or think about the discomfort, so you focus on....something else. Perhaps you think about something entirely different. I know in the lab I usually go to, they have all sorts of posters and things on the wall for folks to look at.

So humans will generally engage in some sort of mental activity that mentally transports them out of their current situation. When that stressor is prolonged, they may develop a more extensive "alternate life". If the stressor is mild, that alternate life may simply be daydreaming - I've built a mountain of stuff while engaged in boring work that took up a lot of time and could be automatized more or less. Think Walter Mitty. 

If the stressor is more intense and aversive, then that alternate life can take a more extensive form - which is where multiple personality disorders come from. And if the stressor is intense but avoidable if one is not IN the life where the stressor occurs, then leaving that life is how you distract from it. Some folks distract from stressors by getting blotto, and some distract by staying sober and leaving that life. It's just another bad coping strategy, gone off the rails.


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