# Target Closing



## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

I only visited the local store three times, the last time buying some jeans and casual slacks. I'm sorry to see them go, but I must admit that there was nothing really compelling about their prices and merchandise. 

I wonder why so many outlets are great when you visit them in the US, and then morph into something else when they set up shop in Canada.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I don't find anything to buy in US Targets either. They always reminded me of a junky Zellers.

When it was rumoured Target was coming to Canada, Walmart snapped up all the good empty
store spaces in shopping malls seemingly just so Target couldn't get them. (at least in this area anyway)
Target was done before they even had a chance.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

My niece and nephew where both employed by Zellers and lost there jobs when Target took over in Quebec city. She was fortunate enough to get a job in management with Target and really worked hard to get things going. Its a shame that after 2 years, she will be losing her job a second time. Not easy to get employment past 40 years of age with only a high school diploma. I have been in the store here in Gatineau once and was not impressed with the merchandise, layout or prices. Walmart rules in our town having 4 of them within 15 minutes of each other. It was just a question of time.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2015)

Target >> Wal-Mart here in the US. Wal-Mart is a totally different experience here than it was in Ottawa. We won't go in to them here, it's generally not a nice environment in or around them.


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

I've been to a local Target a couple of times. They were okay for school supplies and junk food, but nothing special. Their clothes and shoes were not very good quality. 
I just hope they treat the 15,000 people they're throwing out of work properly.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

not the same products or competitive pricing up here in Canada unfortunately.

they lost someting like 2.1 billion in 2014. the aquisitions of the old zellers was something like 1.8 billion.

they made a big mistake opening so many locations at once. if they opened fewer stores first they could have ironed out their strategies for the canadian market better


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

How many malls and stores do we need for fucks sakes. Everytime I look more retail is going up. I guess people will buy shit they dont need just because some assholes will build a store. No, wait, I must have these, theyre pink. Pink is the new orange............


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Target wasn't that impressive. We went while we were Christmas shopping. Speaking of malls, we went to Masonville mall in London, and then to White Oaks mall and they are pretty much carbon copies of each other. Even the displays in the windows were copied.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Writing was on the wall...they never did well from the start. I knew it wouldnt fly. Target was only a spruced up zellers. Not great, but better than Zellers and much better than Walmart. I cant stand shopping at walmart. I feel like a low class citizen. Just feels wrong. Their food prices are no great shakes and the quality sucks.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Wow man. I would like to have 1 millionth of a percent of what it cost them for this failure


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

I think I went once, nothing that interested me. Not surprised to hear that they're packing it in either. 

I just heard Mexx is packing it in, this is surprising to me. Got quite a few nice threads from there over the years.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

It's like they didn't even try at my local Target - empty and messy shelves, poor merchandising, poorly trained small staff, poor quality goods at not so great prices - and the reasons not to go to a Target store go on and on. In 2 years, they didn't even come close to creating a store I would have any reason to visit.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

In retrospect, they should have probably adopted the Ikea model: be rare so it remains a big deal to go there. Conceivably that would have also permitted the few stores that were opened to be fully stocked.

Prior to their opening in Ottawa, I had only been to a Target once, very briefly, in Syracuse a few years back. It was...okay...but the comparison to a tidy Zeller's is apt. In some respects, the wide aisles that fostered the impression of neatness, probably stemmed from the lack of inventory.

But enough armchair quarterbacking....I'm just glad that when my sister was looking for a job in retail last year she got something in a shoe store in the same mall as the Target near her. She had spent enough time on pogey and social assistance, and dodged a bullet on that one.

We actually have a Zeller's near us, if you can believe it. It's not a "real" Zeller's, though (i.e., no big bags of crappy candy, or messy toy aisles). It occupies a Zeller's space, uses the Zeller's sign, but carries primarily clothing, shoes, and major/minor appliances that are surplus stock from The Bay. I've found some terrific deals on quality stuff there.

The tragic thing about the store-closings, over and above the job-losses, is that it occupies the role of "anchor store" in a number of places. And there are few things that will kill a mall faster than a big empty spot where the anchor store used to be. A very large mall near us (Bayshore) expanded in the last 18 months or so, and there was a big slot in the middle of the mall awaiting the installation of a Target. I guess that slot will remain empty for a while longer.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2015)

Sony Canada is closing all its stores as well: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sony-to-close-all-14-canadian-stores-within-2-months-1.2902094


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

I often wonder how well Target really knew the Canadian market. Despite all the research they claimed to have done, I can't dispel the notion they viewed Canada as a backwater market two years behind the US in style and taste. Walking through the store I could almost hear the voices from Minneapolis shouting "Send it up to Canada if it's not moving." " It'll likely sell up there."


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Inclined to agree with you that this fiasco may have been more of a market research flub than anything else. Hell, at least if you're going to misjudge your market, do it on a smaller scale. Whoever headed this up (who I assume will either not work for Target anymore or else will continue to work for them with a ridiculous bonus...since that's how these things seem to work these days) seemed to be pretty dang certain of what they were doing; certain enough that they felt up to opening on the scale they did.

I'm curious about how the first few stores did, since they didn't open them all at once. Did the first couple of stores give a wrong impression about what the over market would be like?

- - - Updated - - -



iaresee said:


> Sony Canada is closing all its stores as well: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sony-to-close-all-14-canadian-stores-within-2-months-1.2902094


What do people want from Sony, anymore? Smaller TVs are all pretty much the same (not to mention as big or bigger than what used to be considered a big screen TV), nobody has stereos or table radios anymore, and there's only so many big screen TVs you can stick in a small store with high rent.

So what to they sell these days? Somebody fill me in.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Krelf said:


> I often wonder how well Target really knew the Canadian market.


Clearly not at all


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

They just asked us for a quote for all their stores across Canada. The quote had to be in on Jan. 5th at the latest. I guess we won't get the work now.......................


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

I never felt the Urge to go to another US based big box store.
So do not know anything at all about Target or the Canadian Version. All of it is Second hand.

I never go to WAL-MART either, every time I have in the past everything I've ever bought there (except 1 car stereo) has failed within 1 year.
Then I heard the rumblings of the poor employee treatment in the US/Canada. Have never set foot in one since.

The only Big-Box US based Store I purchase at with any regularity is Home Depot.
Mostly for Lumber/wood products that are from Canadian suppliers anyway, so that's all good.

Do not have a Costco membership
Try to go to Canadian Grocer as much as possible (Did you know that SAFEWAY CANADA is not American? Got sold to Sobeys in 2013)
Rona/CanTire/Princess Auto are favorite places as well.


The problem I have is that the profits leave Canada
The Jobs are very low pay, no benefit, work every holiday and weekend type wage slave type. 
A couple of the stores mentioned above aren't much better, but at least they are still Canadian (for now)


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Don't look good for the country. Most the middle class jobs have been eliminated and now the minimum wage jobs are getting the axe.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

deadear said:


> Don't look good for the country. Most the middle class jobs have been eliminated and now the minimum wage jobs are getting the axe.


Yes, some bad times coming for Canada. Maybe Ontario and Alta will repeat the teeter totter as they always do. Alta is cooling off, which could mean Ont rises. bad for out west, back to business for Ont...


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Aside from the lost jobs, target closing here is no loss. Wally world here in town is better, Zellers was a lot better than wally world.


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## esau (Sep 8, 2014)

According to Pattie Lovett Reid..
Target opened in March 2013. Here for 22 months, lost $2.1B US. That works out to about $95M per month, or about $3.1M per day.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

djmarcelca said:


> The only Big-Box US based Store I purchase at with any regularity is Home Depot.
> Mostly for Lumber/wood products that are from Canadian suppliers anyway, so that's all good.
> 
> 
> ...


Don't forget about Home Hardware & Building centres. All Canadian.

The only US grocery retailer that I can think of is Wallyworld. 
I wish our govt would put a stop to US takeovers.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I've spent more time in a US Target than Canada's version--and not long for either.
Spent some time in Montana last year and decided to check it out--they had a great carbonated flavoured water with no sugar or sugar substitute.

I can't remember being in a Canadian Target location--although I did walk in one.

In the words of Mitch Hedberg: I tried to walk into Target, but I missed.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

bluzfish said:


> It's like they didn't even try at my local Target - empty and messy shelves, poor merchandising, poorly trained small staff, poor quality goods at not so great prices - and the reasons not to go to a Target store go on and on. In 2 years, they didn't even come close to creating a store I would have any reason to visit.


we have one up the road from us, and your description is pretty accurate. when they were coming here, i thought why the eff is everyone so excited about target? they suck! and when they got here, it was just like zellers, only clean, and slightly different crap. the only thing i ever get there was cases of gatorade. they sell a case of g2 for $16. grocery stores sell them for $19. so i would buy 3 or 4 at a time. other than that, they never had anything there i found useful. all the clothes are chinese. the frickin sizes are small. their xl is everyone else's medium


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I remember being somewhat excited at the prospect of Target coming to town. When they eventually opened and I got a chance to go in there I remember saying to the wife that they were doomed. To me, they looked like the exact same business model as the Zellers that went under that they replaced...only cleaner. You can't copy a failed business model and expect to succeed.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

nkjanssen said:


> That would be $21


I'll take it man


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

having been in the Target here in town, and in Watertown...there is a big difference in merchandise and food related products that they carry...

my guess is that they can't bring some of the stuff across the border...

it is funny thought the comment where, they renovated longer than they were open...at least here it seemed...

also noted...Sony is pulling out of Canada too...but I didn't even realize there were still Sony stores around...the one here closed a few years ago...


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I'll take it man



Awesome!

You can finally get that operation.

Wooo hoo!


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## JCM50 (Oct 5, 2011)

djmarcelca said:


> I never felt the Urge to go to another US based big box store.
> So do not know anything at all about Target or the Canadian Version. All of it is Second hand.
> 
> I never go to WAL-MART either, every time I have in the past everything I've ever bought there (except 1 car stereo) has failed within 1 year.
> ...



I feel the exact same way. Never went to Target, never go to WalMart, never bought anything at Costco and I'm not missing a thing.

Home Depot, I like. They are well organized, have good selection, good stock, good staff.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

People expected the selection and prices that they were used to seeing in the U.S. stores.
When that didn't happen, people lost interest.

When we went for the first time, to one in Hamilton because they weren't open here in Niagara yet, I was surprised to find a clearance section already. I did find a great deal on a hose reel there.
I had no desire to go back. But I have gone to the local Targets since they've opened because their website listed something I was looking for, but their website does not reflect reality in terms of inventory. So, I didn't get what I wanted and found another reason no to bother with them.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Personally I think Target could have survived if they had paid attention to the kinds of comments made here. They had the same opportunity to thrive/survive as Walmart. They moved into existing buildings that tended to anchor malls which gave them ready customer traffic. I thought their advertising was very good.

The problem I had with Target was that everything about the store suggested blandness and disinterest. I never saw a product/price point that made me want to buy it and I thought that their staff was awful. I was probably in Target stores around here dozens of times and never had a positive experience with an employee - they always acted like I was wasting their time.

Contrast that to the new Bass Pro Shop that opened here recently. That place is perfect and I don't even fish anymore. Everything about that store says that it's your "destination" and you will love buying things here.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

My son in law manages at one of them....he found out they were closing over the radio on his way into work.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

They'll have to re-write dictionaries to re-define "boondoggle". Amazing. An opportunity to move a little bit up from Zellers, leave Walmart with its lower-end base and carve into the middle (putting Sears out of its misery in the process) was blown in epic style.

I wasn't surprised by an announcement from Target, but was surprised that it was a total shutdown. Very surprised. I'd have guessed they could close 50 stores and regroup, but one report I read said that Target was unable to model ANY scenario in which they'd make money before 2021 - six years from now. Ouch!! Somebody's got some 'splaining to do!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I don't cross-border shop, as a rule, so I had no real expectations, nor desperate needs, when I heard that Target was coming to Canada. If it simply ended up being Zeller's with tidier aisles and the same prices, I would have been fine with it. I think, quite apart from the stock-level thing, though, expectations were built up during that period when the stores were being renovated, such that, when they opened, many Canadians went "Well, I already _have_ a store where I can buy cheap crap, and a store where I can buy more expensive higher-end stuff". Had it sold stuff you simply couldn't get in Canada, that would have maybe presented a more compelling offer. I know if they sold cheap Chinese copies of pedals that were not normally sold in L&M and comparable stores, I would have been in there as often as I used to go into Radio Shack, when they were an actual store. But they didn't really sell much that I couldn't get elsewhere, or for prices I couldn't find elsewhere.

That, in itself, is no reason to go belly up. I think it was the fact that all those Zeller's stores disappeared so quickly, and all those Target stores were prepping to open for so long, that we developed expectations that simply couldn't be met. Had Target bought out a few of the underperforming Zellers or Sears stores, and established their brand as maybe nothing particularly special, but a pleasant dependable retailer, perhaps Canadians would have come to accept them as another legitimate place to shop when you needed to buy a bunch of very different things.

Alternatively, maybe the era of the department store is over, and the only ones still around are those that have been around long enough to feel like some kind of benchmark to shoppers. If that's so, then perhaps Nordstrom's and Sak's will face a similar fate as Target, though maybe not quite as spectacular a loss since they aren't attempting to be an everywhere-retailer.


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## johnnyshaka (Nov 2, 2014)

mhammer said:


> What do people want from Sony, anymore? Smaller TVs are all pretty much the same (not to mention as big or bigger than what used to be considered a big screen TV), nobody has stereos or table radios anymore, and there's only so many big screen TVs you can stick in a small store with high rent.
> 
> So what to they sell these days? Somebody fill me in.


Damnit...where the hell am I supposed to hangout now when the wife is "browsing" for clothes?!

Regarding Target, my local store has longer lineups at the Starbucks (located in the Target) than it ever does at the actual Target check-outs...that's not good.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Although it may say a lot about the quality and speed of service at each of those locations! I used to be in long lineups at Zeller's too, but it was usually because the checkout person didn't know how to do something, or else because someone wanted to cash a cheque without picture ID.

I used to spend the time you spend in the Sony store at Radio Shack. I guess pretty soon the only place a fella will be able to go in the mall while waiting for their better half is the Timmie's.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I once heard Target described as "just like Zellers, only more red".


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

I think I only ever went into my local Target once. It was dead in there. Looked like stuff WalMart has, only more expensive and way less selection.

I go to Costco almost weekly. Huge huge place and every time it's jam packed, and getting near impossible to find a parking spot at peak times. People lined up at every till with carts piled up with expensive stuff. I marvel at this every time, just a massive quantity of money coming in and goods being carted out. I've wondered how any other chain can make money when Costco is sucking in dollars in like that.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

ezcomes said:


> .Sony is pulling out of Canada too...but I didn't even realize there were still Sony stores around...the one here closed a few years ago...


they sucked too.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Robboman said:


> I marvel at this every time, just a massive quantity of money coming in and goods being carted out. I've wondered how any other chain can make money when Costco is sucking in dollars in like that.


Because some of us have no need to stock up on cases and cases of shit we do not need.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Just the money alone that it took Target to convert the Zeller store alone was astronomical! Locations of a lot of these future Target stores sucked. Consumer traffic wasn't optimal.

People buying goods at Target expected to get deals like in the US. 

There selection was terrible, the quality IMHO wasn't much better than Walmart. Although the staff at my local Target were really nice and very customer oriented. 

Target bit off a way more than they could chew. I even know that it was absolutely idiotic to open 133 stores in Cllanada. 

Over 17,000 Canadians will lose their jobs. 

and the other store from hell............................

Walmart!! I hate Walmart! OMG I really hate Walmart! My friend got a part time job there for Christmas. She was so mistreated. She was yelled at and belittled by one of the managers. She subsequently quit after 3 days of this horrendous abuse. Staff treatment is despicable and abusive. They don't care about their employees. There expendable! The store is dirty and disgusting! The people are the same!


Walmart almost put my husband's clothing manufacturing company out of business. He couldn't compete with the offshore prices of 3rd world countries! I hate the Walmart clientele and just the atmosphere.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Lola said:


> Just the money alone that it took Target to convert the Zeller store alone was astronomical! Locations of a lot of these future Target stores sucked. Consumer traffic wasn't optimal.
> 
> People buying goods at Target expected to get deals like in the US.
> 
> ...



I have heard other people allude to the fact that Target opened too many stores. Some people had even suggested they should have just opened 2 or 3 outlets. Target had a real dilemma on their hands. How does a store attempt to replicate their US product mix and deal with the Canadian packaging laws (i.e. bilingualism and metrification) and turn a profit especially if the economy of scale is limited to a few stores. It's hard enough dealing with the differences in labour laws. Having special packaging prescribed for sales in the hundreds is extremely costly, so the company opened a large number of stores to generate the higher volume of sales they believed was needed to at least break even in the early years. The packaging problem is less difficult for businesses selling big ticket items or items where packaging is unneeded. But when dealing with a department store the problem is daunting. And you just can't ship items across the border from US to Canadian outlets where they are more likely to sell. Goods designated for Canada have to be ordered separately to comply with our packaging regulations.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

They did have an outlet store here in St Catharines before any of the other stores opened.
It was small, it opened with zero fanfare and caused confusion when they put up the sign.

I thought it wasn't THE Target and someone was just trying to rid the coat tails of the big chain in the US.
I think it's got another name now, but I'm not sure. It was never a store I went in to as it was pretty much a clothes store and stocked mostly women's clothes.

Then there's the time that the Bay stores started getting clothes with Target tags on them. Again long before a Target store opened up in Canada.
My sister in law worked at The Bay at the time and the rumours of getting bought up started flying. Then it came out that it was actually Zellers. Makes sense because Zellers and The Bay were all one company.

It really seems like an impossible string of errors when you look at them now.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

The only thing I think I bought at Target was some Christmas tree lights and some shampoo. Their clothing lines for women were terrible. Trying to find anything a bit fashionable or trendy wasn't to be had. My grandmother would of worn stuff like this! There stuff was a way over priced. I expected better from Target especially with all the competition around. The store nearest to us will be one of the last ones closed. It was there flagship store and I suspect a lot more profitable(not really) than some of their other stores! There is going to be a big hole in the mall now. I hear that Sears will be closing there doors as well. I don't know when but it's going to happen.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Here is the thing that gets me: they will file for bankruptcy protection... because they are 'Target Canada'. As far as I am concerned, Target US should have to pay. 

As to mistreated WalMart workers: there are too many people who think that modern labor codes protect people. They don't. There are also too many people who think that if someone is treated poorly, they should just leave. If jobs grew on trees that would be an option.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

What I was _trying _to say was that we need to bring back Consumer's Distributing.

Here's an excerpt from one of their magazines. My wife has highlighted something for her birthday wish list a while back. This way she can massage the inside of her ear while giving herself face cancer from the time-a-tan.


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## JeremyP (Jan 10, 2012)

Consumers Distributing was SO AWESOME. I can remember circling my favorite Christmas stuff in the Consumers and Sears Catalogues as a kid. Their stores were funny too. They always had this little conveyor system.


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## TA462 (Oct 30, 2012)

mhammer said:


> What do people want from Sony, anymore? Smaller TVs are all pretty much the same (not to mention as big or bigger than what used to be considered a big screen TV), nobody has stereos or table radios anymore, and there's only so many big screen TVs you can stick in a small store with high rent.
> 
> So what to they sell these days? Somebody fill me in.


Clock radios, camcorders, speakers, phones, playstations and games, computers, watches, car stereos, mp3 players, digital cameras, tablets and tons of accessories as well as TV's, DVD platers, Blueray players, home theater systems etc.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

JeremyP said:


> Consumers Distributing was SO AWESOME. I can remember circling my favorite Christmas stuff in the Consumers and Sears Catalogues as a kid. Their stores were funny too. They always had this little conveyor system.


Yeah, I don't know what it was about the way it was set-up. For a kid, it was glorious.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

adcandour said:


> What I was _trying _to say was that we need to bring back Consumer's Distributing.
> 
> Here's an excerpt from one of their magazines. My wife has highlighted something for her birthday wish list a while back. This way she can massage the inside of her ear while giving herself face cancer from the time-a-tan.


Well, if she asks for item #9, give her #7 instead


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2015)

I remember that catalogue. My brothers and I pooled our
cash and bought #5, the bulky hand massager, for our mom
for xmas one year (I was 11 at the time). She still has it.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm wondering who will move into the stores Target is moving out of. There may be some good deals to be had as well.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> I'm wondering who will move into the stores Target is moving out of. There may be some good deals to be had as well.


Just before Xmas we went through target to go into the mall here. Looking for small things for the grand daughters. The door we went in from the parking lot has all the cashiers...room for probably 12, there was 2 working. The door into the mall is where the self checkouts are. 3 I think, only one worked and probably 20 people in line. When it was Zellers there were cashiers by each door and there was enough room to get probably 6 shopping carts into the mall at the same time. A lot of the shelves and racks were bare and the girls dept was about 30'x30' with everything on sale. We'll see if there's anything there when we go to the mall in a bit.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Sears is telling Target employees to apply for jobs there and giving them discounts ? Are they going to make a grab for the store frontage?


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

shoretyus said:


> Sears is telling Target employees to apply for jobs there and giving them discounts ? Are they going to make a grab for the store frontage?


I don't know that but apparently, Target USA has put a fund together for severance for employees losing their jobs. I didn't see that coming.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> Sears is telling Target employees to apply for jobs there and giving them discounts ? Are they going to make a grab for the store frontage?


Yeah. I saw that on the news.
I thought Sears was starting to swirl around the drain....


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Sears make me sick too! My friend who is a asst. shipper manager at Target got offered a job at Sears before $3 less and hour! Sears has offered her discounts as well. Sears is the snake waiting in the grass and ready to ambush. Some people will not have a choice and will have to take a lower paying job BUT for the same amount of work.

As for employee treatment at Walmart! There are those workers who have to put up with the abuse because they have no alternative. Sure you can complain but that may jeopardize your job. It's not 3 strikes and your out at Walmart! You make the slightest mistake after you complain to management and they will fire your ass! My friend got dismissed promptly for not doing her job as per Walmart protocol. Makes me sick!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

dodgechargerfan said:


> They did have an outlet store here in St Catharines before any of the other stores opened.
> It was small, it opened with zero fanfare and caused confusion when they put up the sign.
> 
> I thought it wasn't THE Target and someone was just trying to rid the coat tails of the big chain in the US.
> I think it's got another name now, but I'm not sure. It was never a store I went in to as it was pretty much a clothes store and stocked mostly women's clothes.


That wasn't the US group of Target stores. That store is owned by The International Group (i.e. International Boys and a number of other clothing stores). It was owned by Zellers and International bought them out about 7 years ago. It was believed International went under the Target name to provoke a lawsuit where they could get some money for name infringement. I don't know what the financial outcome was.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm no market analyst, but I suspect that, once vacated, the Target stores will stay vacant for a long time, and for the very reason we don't have Eaton's any more. The department store is on the wane, as people buy more and more from specialty stores and on-line. heck even specialty stores are being undone by on-line shopping. Witness the gradual demise of Future Shop and Best Buy bricks and mortar outlets.

The notable exceptions to this are Costco, Wal-Mart, and increasingly (in Canada at least) Loblaws/Superstore; the former because they sell stuff that appeals to our acquisitive nature and reduced purchasing power, and the latter for reasons I don't quite understand. But all three have straddled the groceries+other stuff game. I guess the reasoning is that, whole you may not have a reason to go to The Bay or Sears every week, you WILL need to buy milk and eggs eventually, so while you're there you might also buy furniture or clothing or power tools.

I doubt whether all those Target locations can be filled by any combination of those three major retailers, and I don't see any other large retailer in a position to take over that space. And renovating it to accommodate a bunch of smaller businesses would take both time and money.

But here's a thought. Maybe Amazon or even UPS would take them over as distribution centers. Big warehouses. So, instead of waiting for the UPS or FEDEX guy to come to your house and deliver. All the stuff you order online goes to a central depot, and you go pick it up. If Amazon or whomever doesn't have to pay for delivery to your home, it should be even cheaper, right? It could be like Consumer's Distributing, except the stock is essentially infinite.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Yes I can see most Target stores falling to the wrecking ball. A lot less tax to pay on a vacant lot over a serviced building. As a residential tax payer I don't want to subsidize the owner of the buildings.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> That wasn't the US group of Target stores. That store is owned by The International Group (i.e. International Boys and a number of other clothing stores). It was owned by Zellers and International bought them out about 7 years ago. It was believed International went under the Target name to provoke a lawsuit where they could get some money for name infringement. I don't know what the financial outcome was.


That makes sense. Thanks for that.


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

mhammer said:


> I'm no market analyst, but I suspect that, once vacated, the Target stores will stay vacant for a long time, and for the very reason we don't have Eaton's any more. The department store is on the wane, as people buy more and more from specialty stores and on-line. heck even specialty stores are being undone by on-line shopping. Witness the gradual demise of Future Shop and Best Buy bricks and mortar outlets.
> 
> The notable exceptions to this are Costco, Wal-Mart, and increasingly (in Canada at least) Loblaws/Superstore; the former because they sell stuff that appeals to our acquisitive nature and reduced purchasing power, and the latter for reasons I don't quite understand. But all three have straddled the groceries+other stuff game. I guess the reasoning is that, whole you may not have a reason to go to The Bay or Sears every week, you WILL need to buy milk and eggs eventually, so while you're there you might also buy furniture or clothing or power tools.
> 
> ...


And Walmart, Shoppers and others are adding groceries to their stores.

It seems the preferred model for a department store is one-stop shopping...
It doesn't quite work for me, and I suspect, not many others.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

deadear said:


> Yes I can see most Target stores falling to the wrecking ball. A lot less tax to pay on a vacant lot over a serviced building. As a residential tax payer I don't want to subsidize the owner of the buildings.


Not if it is attached to a mall like ours is. Target expanded the old Zeller's store. I don't know how much they added to the original square footage of the store but it's huge. I don't know who will be able to afford the rent besides some other big box company.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Lola said:


> Not if it is attached to a mall like ours is. Target expanded the old Zeller's store. I don't know how much they added to the original square footage of the store but it's huge. I don't know who will be able to afford the rent besides some other big box company.


This is the problem with all these commercial buildings. If it is un occupied the landlord can get a large tax reduction. We have had a commercial building standing empty for many years and the only reason this is feasable is the owner is getting a tax break while the residential tax payer is subsidizing the landlord. He is still getting police and fire protection etc. with no tenant. 

A lot of them are stand alone in drive in power centers around hear. Knock them down put down some dirt and grow corn or beans.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

If the Target stores are attached to a mall, they will either rent to someone who wants that much space or they will divide the store into small spaces and they should eventually rent out. Georgetown mall just did this with the old Wal-Mart store and it has been very successful.

If it's a box store scenario, the same thing as above will happen. 

If it's a stand alone store that presents more of a problem. The building could be used for a number of purposes or torn down.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

deadear said:


> This is the problem with all these commercial buildings. If it is un occupied the landlord can get a large tax reduction. We have had a commercial building standing empty for many years and the only reason this is feasable is the owner is getting a tax break while the residential tax payer is subsidizing the landlord. He is still getting police and fire protection etc. with no tenant.
> 
> A lot of them are stand alone in drive in power centers around hear. Knock them down put down some dirt and grow corn or beans.


I didn't know about the tax break! Totally logical!


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

dodgechargerfan said:


> And Walmart, Shoppers and others are adding groceries to their stores.
> 
> It seems the preferred model for a department store is one-stop shopping...
> It doesn't quite work for me, and I suspect, not many others.


you speak as if there will always be a choice. i don't think there will. at some point that's all there's gonna be. no one likes it that the grocery store re-arranges the shelves every 3 months but they do it anyhow. or any one of a number of deplorable things they do.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

cheezyridr said:


> No one likes it that the grocery store re-arranges the shelves every 3 months but they do it anyhow.


It's all part of the marketing scheme. When they do the changes of item location, it changes the normal route through the store that the customer has gotten use to. Now he is forced to take a different path so he sees different merchandise with the hope that the customer's buying habits will change or actually increase.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> It's all part of the marketing scheme. When they do the changes of item location, it changes the normal route through the store that the customer has gotten use to. Now he is forced to take a different path so he sees different merchandise with the hope that the customer's buying habits will change or actually increase.



The sneaky bastards! When you at the cash register and your waiting in line do you ever notice the displays of gum and chocolate bars? There different at every cash register. I noticed this at Target. I was bored waiting in line because I forgot my debit card so I could use the self check out!


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Lola said:


> Not if it is attached to a mall like ours is. Target expanded the old Zeller's store. I don't know how much they added to the original square footage of the store but it's huge. I don't know who will be able to afford the rent besides some other big box company.


They did a ton of renos here too..... and built 3 distribution centres. I'm amazed that they gave up on all of that so quickly - especially when it sounds like the biggest problem was having sufficient inventory to sell. Why leave all that capital expenditure behind so quickly? It doesn't make sense.

Which fifth grader made up the business plan?

"Let's spend a biliion dollars on stores, Stock them with a million dollars worth of inventory and if that doesn't make money in a year we'll walk away."


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2015)

As mentioned earlier, they didn't understand the Canadian market. They 
also built a HUGE warehouse in Milton (you can see it on your right as 
you're about to exit onto #25 from the westbound lanes. No name on 
the building). Our warehouse supplied them with the groceries. The mark-up 
in prices they did definitely didn't help. I know a few people who worked 
at their warehouse during our contract negotiations. The word 'sloppy 
logistics' didn't even come close to how they operated.


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## -=Sc0rch=- (Mar 28, 2010)

Every time I walked in there, it was dead, and this was on a weekend. If the store had something to offer than jacked up prices of walmart quality stuff, they could have done well.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

allthumbs56 said:


> They did a ton of renos here too..... and built 3 distribution centres. I'm amazed that they gave up on all of that so quickly - especially when it sounds like the biggest problem was having sufficient inventory to sell. Why leave all that capital expenditure behind so quickly? It doesn't make sense.
> 
> Which fifth grader made up the business plan?
> 
> "Let's spend a biliion dollars on stores, Stock them with a million dollars worth of inventory and if that doesn't make money in a year we'll walk away."


I have seen worse...C anada P ost for example and I have gone into it enough times that I will refrain from doing it again here as I do like to minimize forcing people's eyes to roll.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

... and some people are rewarded quite handsomely for screwing up that big.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/tops...age-for-all-17600-canadian-workers/ar-AA8u5JG


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

CEOs don't tend to suffer any I'll effects for scewing up. A worker can lose his or her job but a CEO is rich whether they win, lose or draw. In almost every case, the corporate structure has an equally ineffective and impervious layer of white collars below the CEO who are ready to take the position or support the incoming replacement.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Hamstrung said:


> ... and some people are rewarded quite handsomely for screwing up that big.
> 
> http://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/tops...age-for-all-17600-canadian-workers/ar-AA8u5JG



THIS makes me so friggin sick. 

I dont believe in communism, but there should be laws against such indecent gains at a time of such losses. I mean this is wrong on so many levels. That douchebag should have to forfeit 95% of his package towards those who are walking away with nothing...or towards creating NEW jobs to replace the ones he helped throw in the sewer.

Whos gonna buy 17000 families's kids presents for next xmas?? These people already worked for garbage money


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I feel sorry for the low man on the totem pole. One university student I know has lost her job there. Her parents won't help her out and figure it's her problem. Target closing means that she will have to find another job. She works two other part time jobs just to exist and pay for her tuition!


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Lola said:


> I feel sorry for the low man on the totem pole. One university student I know has lost her job there. Her parents won't help her out and figure it's her problem. Target closing means that she will have to find another job. She works two other part time jobs just to exist and pay for her tuition!


Exactly. Uni students are having a tough enough time as it is. And what about the starbucks employees? I assume they were franchises? They got a sh*tty deal too. (IDGARA about their coffee...but these are our fellow canucks out of a job because of others incompetence)


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Scotty said:


> Exactly. Uni students are having a tough enough time as it is.


life's tough, welcome to adulthood


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

cheezyridr said:


> you speak as if there will always be a choice. i don't think there will. at some point that's all there's gonna be. no one likes it that the grocery store re-arranges the shelves every 3 months but they do it anyhow. or any one of a number of deplorable things they do.


I think there will still be choice.

We have been buying more and more from local fruit markets (year round), deli/bakery, and butchers.

I am probably a department store's worst nightmare in terms of a customer. 
I don't shop. I buy.
If I go into one I am after something specific and I get in and get out.

That's why markets, bakeries and butchers work well for me. You're there to get what they sell. Not wander aisles and impulse buy.

I do have one exception. When I go to Canadian Tire, I always cruise the outer ring aisle to see what's on sale. But I haven't bought anything from that process in a long time.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

cheezyridr said:


> life's tough, welcome to adulthood


True, but its different than what we had. Jobs for youth are hard to come by. In our (?) or my day, trades were dying for help. If you were a decent kid, you got any job you applied for. Fire dept's hired you as you walked in the door. Wanna be a cop? Here's a badge and a sidearm. 

Not now. You need grade 17 to get a TH job. IF you get hired because of the pre-retirement crowd, or the middle age, "need 4 jobs to raise a family without benefits" worker trying to hang on. Times are changing


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## dodgechargerfan (Mar 22, 2006)

Scotty said:


> Exactly. Uni students are having a tough enough time as it is. And what about the starbucks employees? I assume they were franchises? They got a sh*tty deal too. (IDGARA about their coffee...but these are our fellow canucks out of a job because of others incompetence)


The people that work the Starbucks counters are Target employees.
So, the 17000 number includes them, but that doesn't make it any better.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Beam me up Scotty!:sFun_cheerleader2: WTF is IDGARA?!

The above emoticon is ME! I kid you not!


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Lola said:


> Beam me up Scotty!:sFun_cheerleader2: WTF is IDGARA?!
> 
> 
> The above emoticon is ME! I kid you not!


Lol...nice high kick...

I dont know if it exists, so I might have made up my own abbr ??. I do that. Drives my family nuts

IDARA = I dont give a rats ass


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Scotty said:


> Lol...nice high kick...
> 
> I dont know if it exists, so I might have made up my own abbr ??. I do that. Drives my family nuts
> 
> IDARA = I dont give a rats ass


It's a free world. Your allowed to make up your own abbreviations if you wanna!


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Scotty said:


> True, but its different than what we had. Jobs for youth are hard to come by. In our (?) or my day, trades were dying for help. If you were a decent kid, you got any job you applied for. Fire dept's hired you as you walked in the door. Wanna be a cop? Here's a badge and a sidearm.
> 
> Not now. You need grade 17 to get a TH job. IF you get hired because of the pre-retirement crowd, or the middle age, "need 4 jobs to raise a family without benefits" worker trying to hang on. Times are changing


bullshit. there's plenty of work in the trades, i work in the trades and i see how many young people are on the sites every single day. i see the new apprentices when they are brought in. alot of kids these days don't WANT to work in the trades. (and i can't say i blame them) and being a cop is no difficult thing to get into here in toronto. there's ads all over the ttc looking for people to come and apply. the idea that kids have it any tougher than adults is ridiculous. life's not easy for anyone. the fire dept may be a little tougher, i really don't know. but considering that you get paid for sitting on your ass 80% of the time, maybe they _should_ be a little selective. if someone wants something they have to actually put forth some effort to go and get it. that goes for any job. otherwise, there's always mcdonalds for those with no work ethic or ambition. in a place like toronto or other big cities, the market gets saturated, and the best jobs get snatched up fast. the best lesson a kid can learn is, you get nothing without a serious effort.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Most jobs arent advertised. McDonalds is not just for slackers (remember my sister and her competition?)

Jobs are hard to find, hard to keep, and sometimes hard to fit into. To say its the same as before would be wrong, but to say it's easier would be just as bad.

Find me the 40yo who never expected to be let go and he'll probably seem the same as the college grad, just with more experience.

The hard part isnt just finding a job, but a good job (and i dont just mean pay).


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Much of that is true (cheezy's post) but to say that things aren't tougher now is absolutely incorrect.


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

There is always work if you are willing. 
Before I was apprenticed I sold encyclopedias and bartendedat night. 
I worked as a tire buster for 6 months before even getting offered an apprenticship. 

Playing guitar for pay (Busking in Ottawa's Byward market) or playing for 30.00 in a bar.
Dj'ing in clubs or weddings, bartending, bouncer, 

there's lots of part time jobs if you want them, that don't interfere with your days to allow you to study.
one of the tire changers at work is a dentistry student. He studies until 3/4 then comes to the shop and changes tires and oil until 9 pm, and all day Saturday, he takes Sunday off. 
He records every class every day and listens to it on his phone while working. 
Smart guy. He'll probably be very successful. 

i don't know if things are more expensive now vs then because of inflation but I do know wages have stayed largely the same. 

Thats the biggest hurdle to overcome. Breaking the 15-18/hr barrier. Otherwise no-one can make a living. You're only slave waging


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

General note: not everyone works well let alone functions on 5 hours sleep or less. Something to consider when someone goes "oh well they just work 6am-9pm at two jobs and they're fine".


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Don't kid yourself on the ease of getting into the Fire Dept. My son is currently going to school for it at Seneca. It may take him 5 years to get on to the department. They are currently NOT hiring unlike the police force. Attrition is one of the contributing factors that will enable him to get a job. Once he's in though, it's a job for life. It's not the glamorous job that the media portrays it to be. It's a lot tougher and more dangerous than being a cop IMHO!

I could never compete in today's job market. I have college but that means jack squat now a days. I am going to retire soon at the ripe old age of 50 lol, so I don't really care. My hubby has already retired at the age of 50. He's driving me nuts though. He no longer has any drive or ambition and currently watches CNN morning until night! Pretty sad when you know the anchors first and last name and WHY they look different in appearance today. "Oh look at Brooke Baldwin, she's wearing her hair differently today!" Thank god for work!


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2015)

50! wow.
I'll be lucky if I can afford to 
retire at 75, if I live that long. lol.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Where do I sign up .. no wait ... I am on that program too



laristotle said:


> 50! wow.
> I'll be lucky if I can afford to
> retire at 75, if I live that long. lol.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

laristotle said:


> 50! wow.
> I'll be lucky if I can afford to
> retire at 75, if I live that long. lol.


I know I am very lucky! Lady luck has been on our side if nothing else! I won't really retire though but I will be able to at least pick and choose what I want to do for the rest of my life. I know that I want to continue to do something but what I really don't know at this point in time!


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## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

Lola said:


> I know I am very lucky! Lady luck has been on our side if nothing else! I won't really retire though but I will be able to at least pick and choose what I want to do for the rest of my life. I know that I want to continue to do something but what I really don't know at this point in time!



Its very important to plan your retirement job as much as your working career. 
I know guys who have retired, only to be back at the shop 3 days a week to keep from getting bored. 
Cant threaten to fire those guys, cause they just tell you " Go ahead I'm retired"


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

djmarcelca said:


> Its very important to plan your retirement job as much as your working career.
> I know guys who have retired, only to be back at the shop 3 days a week to keep from getting bored.
> Cant threaten to fire those guys, cause they just tell you " Go ahead I'm retired"


It really doesn't matter what I do as long as I am playing my guitar and I am happy and busy! This is "MY" time for me now. I have raised 3 boys, worked my ass off and have done what I can to make everyone's life better around me. I am not saying I won't work but I will be able to pick and choose what pleases me now.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

cheezyridr said:


> bullshit. there's plenty of work in the trades, i work in the trades and i see how many young people are on the sites every single day. i see the new apprentices when they are brought in. alot of kids these days don't WANT to work in the trades. (and i can't say i blame them) and being a cop is no difficult thing to get into here in toronto. there's ads all over the ttc looking for people to come and apply. the idea that kids have it any tougher than adults is ridiculous. life's not easy for anyone. the fire dept may be a little tougher, i really don't know. but considering that you get paid for sitting on your ass 80% of the time, maybe they _should_ be a little selective. if someone wants something they have to actually put forth some effort to go and get it. that goes for any job. otherwise, there's always mcdonalds for those with no work ethic or ambition. in a place like toronto or other big cities, the market gets saturated, and the best jobs get snatched up fast. the best lesson a kid can learn is, you get nothing without a serious effort.




Yes, there is tons of work in the trades. I know how tough it is to find key men in this market. Nearly impossible because they are all gainfully employed and not looking. BUT, trades are not for everyone. First, as much as people have tried to create an equal balance, it is still a male dominated field, so write off 50% of the working public. Secondly, not all kids are suited either by aptitude or interest. It may fit YOU, but not all, and not the majority. Outside the GTA, it is nearly impossible to get on the fire dept. You have to be in the extreme, elite upper ranks, fit as a brick s**thouse, and have every first aid and volunteer course under your belt. Even getting into the volunteer dept is difficult.

While I agree that you get what you put in, it will not help the kids of today if they are not educated and are looking to get into a field where the jobs are wage capped, or not offered full time because they don't want to pay benefits etc. There used to be a time when someone could work for a grocery or department store, move up the ranks and raise a family. Now, they are finding only part time jobs, no health benefits, no upper wage scales etc. Manufacturing is making a departure or moving towards poor pay scales to compete so there's another void in employment that could sustain a family in the same way they used to 25 years ago.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

To be a fire fighter is really tough but my son has the physical strength and endurance for the job(he's the pro body builder) He also is very intelligent. It will take him some time but he will get in. There are many kids in his course at college and although they are very intelligent they are as weak as a wet rag. They will never make it. You have to have your first aid but it's not just that anymore. There are courses that are mandatory that you must pay for separately. Like wide angle rescue and 2 others that I can't remember off the top of my head. Fire fighters now a days are part EMS, rescue and fire fighter plus more. They have to know exactly how to assess certain medical situations, deliver babies etc. I kid you not. I can't believe all the extras that my son has to pay for that are requisite to becoming a 1st class fire fighter. You also are required to volunteer so many hours. You are on call to at whatever fire hall they assign you at! It's not easy but he's passionate about it and he will make it! The competition is fierce but he loves the challenge. He's a gladiator!

When my brother in law became a firefighter some 30 odd years ago, you just went in and they gave you a physical, you took a course and that was it.

I really don't know if I could bear the stress that these youngsters have in getting a half decent job today.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Retirement?

What's that?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


> 50! wow.
> I'll be lucky if I can afford to
> retire at 75, if I live that long. lol.


At one time I had thought of retiring at about 50. Two pension plans that disappeared, a divorce that took the house and cleaned out my bank accounts, a girlfriend who inhaled a lot and a few other things changed that. So I keep on working. I've found that if you want to work, there is work. If you don't want to work there is excuses. As far as being tougher now than then, I doubt it. For kids anyway. I grew up in a small town where if and when you graduated you didn't have much choice...logging/mills, farming, maybe pumping gas, the armed forces, the rcmp or the city. I took the city. University was a distant dream and you didn't need a ba or a phd to sell shoes or twist wrenchs. I tried the army then sat at the end of a conveyor belt for a while. Along the way I picked up skills and when it was warranted I went back to school. Try being a divorced dad in your mid 40's, with a kid and a job doing 12 hrs of college a week with kids who's moms you went to school with and on occasion took out. Add child support, food and rent to that and the "poor baby has it tough" stuff just doesn't cut it. 
As far as target closing, the other day the wife and I stopped off there while going into the mall, looking to see if there was anything on sale at a good price.....there wasn't. In electronics the one tablet was marked down 10% which was still more expensive than best buy. I over heard someone ask one of the kids if they were worried about the store closing. The kid answered no that she had enough hrs for EI. so she was going to take some time off.
And try looking for work when you're 65. I've sent out some feelers just to see if there's anything around where I can work the hrs I want. In this town there's not much.


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## Guest (Jan 24, 2015)

Scotty said:


> Manufacturing is making a departure or moving towards poor pay scales to compete so there's another
> void in employment that could sustain a family in the same way they used to 25 years ago.


I suspect that will happen sooner than later, with the current government in Ontario making
it more expensive for companies to stay here. And now comments from Justin Trudeau may
just make it a realty. Make sure your children (and you) are not under-educated.



from Sun News

Trudeau says southwestern Ontario must ditch manufacturing

LONDON, Ont. - Southwestern Ontario must "transition away" from a manufacturing-based economy 
and develop more technology and economic innovation, Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau said Tuesday.

"A large part of it is transitioning away from a manufacturing-based employment as a driver in the 
economy to much more innovation and hi-tech and more knowledge economy, entrepreneurship," 
he said in a meeting room at Hilton London where met with reporters. 

He said London's economic future lies in health sciences and research and pledged a partnership 
to help make that happen.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Manufacturing anything now in Canada can not compete with the off shore competition! It's put a lot of businesses into Chapter 11. I mean bankruptcy! Were not in the USA are we Toto? I know that my husband's clothing manufacturing business could not compete with 3rd world countries prices. His T-shirts were like $2 and off shore they were half of that. People would rather pay less for some shitty quality Bangladesh manufactured garment rather then a superior Canadian garment. It's dog eat dog especially in 3rd world countries.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Read a lot of these posts and Alberta is not Ontario. Alberta is driven by oil and Ontario was driven by manufacturing which has left so to compare the two areas of the country is not valid in my opinion. IT has never been easy in Ontario and I have worked in the public sector and private sector in the trades. No not interested in selling everything and moving out west don't know anyone and it is late in life to start over. BTW that oil party might be wraping up shortly.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I will boycott Walmart though. Walmart is just such a nasty place to be! The people, the atmosphere and the fruit flies flying around! I won't miss Target one bit!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Lola said:


> Manufacturing anything now in Canada can not compete with the off shore competition! It's put a lot of businesses into Chapter 11. I mean bankruptcy! Were not in the USA are we Toto? I know that my husband's clothing manufacturing business could not compete with 3rd world countries prices. His T-shirts were like $2 and off shore they were half of that. People would rather pay less for some shitty quality Bangladesh manufactured garment rather then a superior Canadian garment. It's dog eat dog especially in 3rd world countries.


Welcome to globalization.

On the one hand, globalization also means that we, like any nation, market our goods and services to the entire world. And some will prosper, or work for organizations that grow and prosper, as a result. But then there is the not-so-small matter of the sorts of goods and services a nation has to export, or ends up importing, as a function of the economic level and wealth distribution within that country. We obviously can't compete with many other nations when it comes to mass-producing common consumer goods at bargain basement prices. But if our manufacturing sector atrophies, along with the jobs it normally provides, then a great many people end up almost obligated to rely on cheap goods and services provided by other nations.

Put more bluntly, if the only employment you can get is part-time work at Wal-Mart, then the only goods you will ever be able to purchase are those made-in-Asia goods that Wal-Mart sells.

Now, that is certainly NOT true of folks in the top 20%. But the proportion in the bottom rungs is certainly not getting smaller. Moreover, as education levels increase, world-wide, providers of higher-end services increase in number, splitting the non-expanding market for those services into smaller pieces. Keep in mind there was a time when Central and Eastern Asia were considered sources for cheaper _physical_ goods, but not competition for software-developers in California and Seattle. Not any more.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

The news is that they are going to start some pretty deep discounts to sell off their stock, starting on Thursday of this week.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I have been waiting for them to start liquidating stock. This is the perfect time to buy stuff in volume!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I doubt they will blow out apple gear, and I need a computer


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

So I needed something at Target. (sidebar) Did you know that they have volunteers that work there? I certainly didn't! Who the hell would volunteer there? Anyhoo I asked if tomorrow was the beginning of their liquidation sales and the guy said yes. He said that a lot of items will be up to 80% off. He couldn't tell me which items but I sure as heck will be there tomorrow. If I see a good sale on something I need you can bet dollars to donuts that I will buy in bulk if I possibly can.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Lola said:


> So I needed something at Target. (sidebar) Did you know that they have volunteers that work there? I certainly didn't! Who the hell would volunteer there? Anyhoo I asked if tomorrow was the beginning of their liquidation sales and the guy said yes. He said that a lot of items will be up to 80% off. He couldn't tell me which items but I sure as heck will be there tomorrow. If I see a good sale on something I need you can bet dollars to donuts that I will buy in bulk if I possibly can.



Well Lola, tell us about all the bargains you got!! :smiley-faces-75:


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Krelf said:


> Well Lola, tell us about all the bargains you got!! :smiley-faces-75:


Nothing! That volunteer was full of shit! Nothing was a bargain. Up to 30% off and no more. I was told that the % of discount would increase as they clear out the store! WTF!! All that will be left is crap. Sadly disappointed and nothing but!


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Lola said:


> Nothing! That volunteer was full of shit! Nothing was a bargain. Up to 30% off and no more. I was told that the % of discount would increase as they clear out the store! WTF!! All that will be left is crap. Sadly disappointed and nothing but!



Does it not remind you of the Zellers close out at the Pickering Town Centre a few years back?


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

Krelf said:


> Does it not remind you of the Zellers close out at the Pickering Town Centre a few years back?


Yeah,that's how liquidation works,they are still trying to make money to pay off their debts.
You won't see any big discounts until late in the process.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Lola said:


> Nothing! That volunteer was full of shit! Nothing was a bargain. Up to 30% off and no more. I was told that the % of discount would increase as they clear out the store! WTF!! *All that will be left is crap.* Sadly disappointed and nothing but!


And that there was part of their problem, nothing in that store but crap!


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Hey we are neighbors! Could you be a possible jam buddy? I live right at Valleyfarm and #2! Maybe if your not far away something could be possible.

Yes, sadly, it does remind me of Zellers!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Moosehead said:


> And that there was part of their problem, nothing in that store but crap!


Not everything....ie electronics.....but when their "liquidation sale" price is still higher than other stores regular prices, it's no bargain; never was. At least the Zellers here had 'clear the shelves fast' prices.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Krelf said:


> Does it not remind you of the Zellers close out at the Pickering Town Centre a few years back?



That is exactly what it reminded me of.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

here's a little blurb about the liquidation


Many were upset that the deals in the store weren’t absolutely rock bottom. Yes, an internal memo was released telling their staff that Thursday will be like Black Friday, but that was all that was said. There was no indication in those same memos that the prices would also resemble absolute, rock-bottom, is-that-the-best-you-can-do? prices. The memo was correct, traffic was out the door, just like Black Friday, and their estimate of doubling their daily sales was probably correct. Here are a couple of things to consider before heading in to the stores or waiting until everything is 95% off to buy.
[h=3]The Liquidation Discounts[/h] The first thing here to note is that Target is no longer in charge of the prices you see in the store. Our courts have appointed Alvarez & Marsal as the monitor. A monitor’s responsibilities include supervising the liquidation and wind-down process for Target Canada and they report back to the courts on the progress.
It is in their best interest to begin the liquidation slowly and start sales around the 10 – 30% off range. This is how all standard liquidations start. Remember Eaton’s, or Zellers? They cleared out the same way, we’ve just forgotten.
One big misconception now is that Target Canada is profiting from the liquidation. The reason for this liquidation is so that they can pay their creditors to the best of their ability.
Have you seen the creditor list? It is 44 pages long and includes local and international companies such as Baby Gourmet Foods Inc in Edmonton (owed $62,701), Old Dutch Foods in Winnipeg (owed $219,661), and Under the Roof Decorating Inc in Calgary (owed $225,553) to name a few. Check out the list, no province is left off the list, and trust me; this is not a list anyone wants to be on. They even owe Food Banks Canada ($276,920).
*View the complete creditor list*
Right now, these businesses are going to be making pennies on the dollars they are owed by Target Canada, if they are lucky. The higher the discounts, the less they will be offered in the end. These are Canadian businesses, employing our friends, family, children, and parents.
You may think that getting 95% off of that small appliance is a great deal, but is it still an awesome deal if it means that your wife / brother / child / etc gets laid off because their employer had to make some cuts later in the year to make up for lost revenue?
[h=3]The Staff[/h] 17,600 Canadian employees are being laid off. These are our friends, family, kids, parents. These are people who have lost their jobs, and now need to go to work everyday, face their customers who all know they are the walking-unemployed, and work in a store that is being liquidated.
That has to be hard.
Top that off with stories I’ve been reading about staff abandoning ship and not showing up for work. The people you see in the store chose to go in. No one is forcing them. They have all made the choice to continue to provide customer service in the face of all of this.
I think that is amazing.
Please be considerate when you enter the stores. Your day is most likely not as bad as theirs right now.


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2015)

Quite the list.
I checked the company I work for, $3mil +.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Wow, quite a lot of pain in that creditors list. Many of them not-large Canadian companies who - I can imagine - were high-fiving themselves barely over a year ago about breaking into Target, some of them after years of frustration trying to get into notoriously-difficult Walmart. Not nice.

Tens of millions in taxes will come off the top before the creditors see anything. Target's parent company is owed about 3.2 BILLION dollars (!!) but I believe that will be subordinated. Quite a story about what not to do.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

That list makes me anrgy... did they pay anyone? How many suppliers were chisled and squeezed before they were allow to put their stuff in Target. 

Anyone remember life when stores actually bought their stock ?



boyscout said:


> Wow, quite a lot of pain in that creditors list. Many of them not-large Canadian companies who - I can imagine - were high-fiving themselves barely over a year ago about breaking into Target, some of them after years of frustration trying to get into notoriously-difficult Walmart. Not nice.
> 
> Tens of millions in taxes will come off the top before the creditors see anything. Target's parent company is owed about 3.2 BILLION dollars (!!) but I believe that will be subordinated. Quite a story about what not to do.


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Lola said:


> Nothing! That volunteer was full of shit! Nothing was a bargain. Up to 30% off and no more. I was told that the % of discount would increase as they clear out the store! WTF!! All that will be left is crap. Sadly disappointed and nothing but!


The will be selling stuff for 90% off if you are interested in chairs out of their cafe with broken legs and tears ,or possibly a worn out dish washer.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Bubb said:


> Top that off with stories I’ve been reading about staff abandoning ship and not showing up for work. The people you see in the store chose to go in. No one is forcing them. They have all made the choice to continue to provide customer service in the face of all of this.
> I think that is amazing.
> Please be considerate when you enter the stores. Your day is most likely not as bad as theirs right now.


As far as people not going back into work.....there is a chance, depending where they work, that they might not be able to collect EI because they chose not too go into work when they are still employed.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Bubb said:


> The people you see in the store chose to go in. No one is forcing them. They have all made the choice to continue to provide customer service in the face of all of this.
> I think that is amazing.
> Please be considerate when you enter the stores. Your day is most likely not as bad as theirs right now.


This is the part of things that concerns me the most--and makes me the most upset--people losing jobs and the way they are being treated buy their employer (former employer?)--and possibly by customers.


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## Bubb (Jan 16, 2008)

Just to be clear...I didn't write that ,a link was sent to me.
I posted it because it seems to be a very clear description of the liquidation process as I understand it.
I also agree with the sentiments stated regarding the staff .


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Lola said:


> Yes, sadly, it does remind me of Zellers!


I happened to stroll into one this morning, largely because the dollar store at the other end of the mall had run out of 2032-size lithium batteries. And that was my first thought when I entered: "Man, does it _ever _look like a Zellers, now!". Empty spots on the shelves, hand-scrawled sale signs on stuff everywhere, lots of inventory not lined up neatly. I felt "at home". LOL

Oh, and I found the batteries, but at $7 for one (minus a heaping 10% discount...although to be fair, The Source wanted $12)), I thought it best to leave that battery with its cousins, and pick up 3 for $1 at the Dollarama beside where I went for groceries.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

The youngest grand daughters's birthday is today....the oldest next sunday. They took my wallet on a shopping trip to the mall. We stopped off at target to check prices...still more expensive than other places. They then partied hard with my wallet in the rest of the mall. When we got home the wife told me that the radio is saying that Visions would be liquidating electronics and other things contracted to target but not in the stores yet. I'll have to check that out.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Ya I went to Target today. No bargoons to be had at all. Buying some socks and underwear for the boys(men) at a 10% discount! Should of gone to Walmart but I detest that store with a passion! The only things that I found at a deeper discounted price was stuff I didn't even need. They say as time goes on the discount will become greater but on what? Store fixtures??


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Lola said:


> They say as time goes on the discount will become greater but on what? Store fixtures??


They did that with Zellers...


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

zontar said:


> They did that with Zellers...


Yes I remember all too well.

Another store that just recently closed is Jones of New York. The only reason I know that is because of my husband. He was in the garment manufacturing business before he retired and he keeps abreast of things like this. Jones of New York is a very high end clothing company. I don't know exactly what happened with that company!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

In my family here in Alberta....both blood and close to, at least half have jobs related to the oil industry. Where I work 90% of our business is patch, the wife's grandson is a camp cook, jobs like that. We're slow at work that probably within the next month someone will be getting some time off, the wife's grandson is now on a 3 on 3 off (it was 3 and 1) the 3 working directly for Suncor are waiting, just like others. With target gone wallyworld suddenly becomes a viable commodity for a bunch of us if needed. EI could be a problem.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Lola said:


> Yes I remember all too well.
> 
> Another store that just recently closed is Jones of New York. The only reason I know that is because of my husband. He was in the garment manufacturing business before he retired and he keeps abreast of things like this. Jones of New York is a very high end clothing company. I don't know exactly what happened with that company!


I heard on Newsworld this morning that Danier is in trouble, and Parasuco is also closing stores.

Maybe this is the evidence of the proverbial "disappearing middle class". If one has enough money, then you don't really care about how much your clothes cost, and will generally have them made for you. High-end off-the-rack stuff, though, is intended to appeal to middle-class folks who want to dress "rich". And when those folks feel like they have to be cost-conscious, you lose a fairly sizable market.

Or at the very least, if you mistakenly assumed that size of market would be there forever, and expanded in anticipation of that, you're kind of screwed. We had a mini-instance of that here in Ottawa. Les Ailes de la Mode, a higher-end Montreal-based store, opened up over a decade back in one of the larger malls that caters principally to clothes shopping. never went in it, but my family tells me it was a pretty classy joint, complete with a grand piano for entertaining the customers. The Nortel and much of the local telecomm sector tanked. Les Ailes packed up and moved back to Montreal.

Danier and Parasuco aren't the only Canadian non-economy clothing store chains to throw in the towel. Jacob and Mexx fell earlier. Again, it's not that they don't or wouldn't have a clientele. Rather, even if their market share remains constant, the number of outlets and staff they have exceeds what that share of the overall current market can support. I

In retrospect, Ikea have the smartest approach: be as rare as you can afford to be, rather than more omnipresent than you can afford.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Danier is in trouble! Well, serves them right. I used to work at the head office on St. Clair Ave. Jeffrey Wortsman is the founder and owner of this Canadian icon. He is a greedy, pompous jerk. There are things that I have personal knowledge of some incidences that occurred! This man is absolutely insidious! Business ethics! NOT! You were never acknowledged for your blood, sweat and tears. They too bit off more then they could chew. There have been numerous closings of location throughout Ontario and Quebec. I abhor this company with a passion. I hope he goes to hell in a hand basket. I am very bitter. I gave them a big chunk of my life and for what????


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

More blood coming. Another sign of it, I went to order a product on Amazon; on the U.S. site it's $15.99 and on the Canadian site it's $24.99.

Of course, the fact that I go to Amazon to order a rotary knife is part of the problem. My wife buys ~20% of her clothing online. That systemic shift is now compounded by the collapse in oil prices and its effect on the Canadian dollar, so prices at Canadian retailers are going to rise painfully. More blood coming.

Fortunately we all own guitars and will be able to sing for our supper.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

If we got to sing for our supper then some of us are going to go hungry.....fast. I don't have to worry much 'cause if I decide to retire then those under 58 are going to be paying my way.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

boyscout said:


> More blood coming. Another sign of it, I went to order a product on Amazon; on the U.S. site it's $15.99 and on the Canadian site it's $24.99.


That has been standard on Amazon.ca vs Amazon.com for at least two years. I hardly ever check Amazon.ca because of the high prices.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> That has been standard on Amazon.ca vs Amazon.com for at least two years. I hardly ever check Amazon.ca because of the high prices.


Between the two sites I spend about $2,500 per year on small items (mostly books & blu-rays) and I often check both sites before I buy.

Except for many third-party-supplied products where Amazon is only processing order and payment, I have not found your claim to be anywhere CLOSE to true until recently.

The example in my previous post is noteworthy as a product directly supplied by both .COM and .CA with a large price difference (over 50% more!!).

Perhaps "hardly ever" checking .CA makes your information uncertain?


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Lola said:


> Danier is in trouble! Well, serves them right. I used to work at the head office on St. Clair Ave. Jeffrey Wortsman is the founder and owner of this Canadian icon. He is a greedy, pompous jerk. There are things that I have personal knowledge of some incidences that occurred! This man is absolutely insidious! Business ethics! NOT! You were never acknowledged for your blood, sweat and tears. They too bit off more then they could chew. There have been numerous closings of location throughout Ontario and Quebec. I abhor this company with a passion. I hope he goes to hell in a hand basket. I am very bitter. I gave them a big chunk of my life and for what????


 Your paycheck. Did you expect more ? I never do. Just take what you can and when the door swings jump out of the way so you don't get a red ass.


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2015)

You never know what you'll get.

Bag of marijuana found stuffed inside toy purchased at Brampton-area Target

Target’s slogan is “‘expect more, pay less,” but a Brampton woman probably 
wasn’t expecting a bag of drugs nestled inside a recent purchase.

Peel Region Police have confirmed a large bag of marijuana was found in an Angry Birds 
toy purchased at a Target location in the Brampton area on Feb. 11.

Police would not disclose the weight or value of the drugs, but an image obtained by 
CTV News shows what appears to a sizable quantity of marijuana sealed in a vacuum-
packed bag taking up a large portion of the toy’s packaging.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I just saw this a little while ago on the news! Expect more, pay less! lmao!


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

boyscout said:


> Between the two sites I spend about $2,500 per year on small items (mostly books & blu-rays) and I often check both sites before I buy.
> 
> Except for many third-party-supplied products where Amazon is only processing order and payment, I have not found your claim to be anywhere CLOSE to true until recently.
> 
> ...


You and I likely buy different goods from Amazon. For example, I never buy books or blue-rays on Amazon. Those items are too small in price to begin with to make much difference. I have saved over $100.00 on an inversion table and over $200.00 on an office chair and large percentages on RV accessories, etc.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

My girlfriend just got her walking papers from Target! She has been looking for another part time job but can't find one. She doesn't drive. On the plus side she did get 6 weeks payout package based on the average of the last 3 months of her employment with Target!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

laristotle said:


> You never know what you'll get.
> 
> Bag of marijuana found stuffed inside toy purchased at Brampton-area Target
> 
> ...


I'd expect those birds were probably more mellow than angry when the toy got home. _Hungry_ birds, yes, angry birds, nah.


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## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

mhammer said:


> I'd expect those birds were probably more mellow than angry when the toy got home. _Hungry_ birds, yes, angry birds, nah.


Sounds to me like someone either missed the hand-off or something like the airport scene in Dumb and Dumber occurred.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

After checking out the gradually increasing discounts every week or so since this all began I've bought...a couple lbs. of Kona coffee, a sports bra for the wife and 4 rechargeable AAs. Whoopedeedoo...


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I bought some briefs for my sons at a deep discount! Some shampoo and cosmetics for me!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Visions is supposed to be getting electronics that "was for Target" and sell it at a 'great discount". We went there and found out that the stuff Visions got was the same stuff they already sold, there was no way to tell what was what and the stuff on sale wasn't a bargain. So we went to Target....there was more stuff in the store than there was 4 weeks ago when I went there with the grand daughters. Most of the sale prices were still higher than other places if you could find a price tag. The price checkers are all gone from the store and the only way to check the price was to find an employee with a hand held device. If there was a price it was usually wrong. 20% of $80 is $16 which means the item should be $64 and not $69.99. This was on a cheap tablet that Walmart in town was selling for $58 regular price.


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