# Russian Big Muff



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

A forum member requested a clone of his "black Russian" Big Muff Pi in a smaller package. I poked around and found a schematic for one. It's basically the same as standard-issue Big Muffs, but has less gain in each of the clipping stages, and also moves the scoop over and narrows it a bit. Fortunately, that meant I could use an existing PCB layout and simply substitute some resistor and capacitor values. I have to say, I found the final result appealing. It will do fuzz and distortion, but if you turn down the Sustain a bit, and roll back on the treble, it also does a pretty passable warm overdrive. I was impressed; enough that I'm going to mod one of my own to those component values.

As near as I can tell, there seems to be no difference between the "green" and "black" Russian BMPs, other than the colour and dimensions of the enclosure, and the knobs. EHX reissued the Green Russian Muff. Given the inherent variability of the circuit, based on component tolerances, I can't speak to how well the reissue "nails" the sound of the original. But I do know I like this one.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

I think we can get to the bottom of this. Well, at least close to the bottom. Okay, okay, around the vicinity of the bottom.


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## MetalTele79 (Jul 20, 2020)

I sold my black Muff a couple weeks ago. It was a fantastic pedal but it's pretty big and battery only. I'm currently waiting for a deal on the Rams Head Muff reissue as a smaller replacement that should be close enough to keep me satisfied.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

MetalTele79 said:


> It was a fantastic pedal but it's pretty big and battery only.


The battery only problem is solvable with one of the voodoo lab battery clip adapters. But the giant size and reversed jacks make it a nightmare for a pedalboard.


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

I imagine the gain of the transistors used in your build is an important factor. I am not sure what the gain range was of the stock Russians units. Certainly, somebody has measured and posted somewhere. 

With the multi stacked gain stages and clipping, my impression is that lower gain ranges will at least have a chance to break up with character before the slam fest begins. 

However, Muff lovers extoll the virtues of all versions. Who can argue?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The gain is not built in to the transistors themselves. The *capability* for more gain is, but it's the passive components around the transistor that actually set the gain.

The fundamental character of the Muff IS the use of double clipping, with a secondary factor of the midscoop in the tonestack. The Sola Supa Tonebender is essentially a Big Muff circuit (and vice versa), but the diodes are omitted from what is normally the "first clipping stage". I installed a toggle to lift/reconnect the clipping diodes in a BMP I built, and found it tended to make the result harsh. Didn't particularly care for it.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

Okay Player said:


> The battery only problem is solvable with one of the voodoo lab battery clip adapters. But the giant size and reversed jacks make it a nightmare for a pedalboard.


In Soviet Russia, giant Muff Pi reverse jacks you?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Man, it's been a _*long*_ time since I've heard a Yakov Smirnoff joke.


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## surlybastard (Feb 20, 2011)

I had a Black Russian Muff but it was finnicky and big and replaced it with a Bass Muff (this was before EHX made the reissues) and in the middle 'normal' position it sounded closed enough to the black Russian for me. I still have the Bass muff on the board


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

mhammer said:


> The gain is not built in to the transistors themselves. The *capability* for more gain is, but it's the passive components around the transistor that actually set the gain.
> 
> The fundamental character of the Muff IS the use of double clipping, with a secondary factor of the midscoop in the tonestack. The Sola Supa Tonebender is essentially a Big Muff circuit (and vice versa), but the diodes are omitted from what is normally the "first clipping stage". I installed a toggle to lift/reconnect the clipping diodes in a BMP I built, and found it tended to make the result harsh. Didn't particularly care for it.


Your technical terminology may be more correct than mine. I was basically trying to say, socketing and swapping transistors of different hfe in the stock circuit ( well... choose one version) can make a notable sonic impact. For example, 2N2222A (hfe 100) and BC549 (hfe 900) will definitely sound and perform differently. 
Sure, you can re- bias anyway you want, but can you call it a "Green Russian" or whatever? I guess you can call it whatever you want... but


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

tonewoody said:


> Your technical terminology may be more correct than mine. I was basically trying to say, socketing and swapping transistors of different hfe in the stock circuit ( well... choose one version) can make a notable sonic impact. *For example, 2N2222A (hfe 100) and BC549 (hfe 900) will definitely sound and perform differently.*
> Sure, you can re- bias anyway you want, but can you call it a "Green Russian" or whatever? I guess you can call it whatever you want... but


My sense is that people *think* that, but what we're really dealing with is transistors that can sound identical when they are biased identically, and set for the same amplification. In other words, one isn't necessarily giving the same "instructions" to the transistor when you change it without changing what's around it.

FWIW, I pretty much stick with 2N5088s when making a Muff. The can range in hfe from high 300s to high 800s.


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## tonewoody (Mar 29, 2017)

mhammer said:


> My sense is that people *think* that, but what we're really dealing with is transistors that can sound identical when they are biased identically, and set for the same amplification. In other words, one isn't necessarily giving the same "instructions" to the transistor when you change it without changing what's around it.
> 
> FWIW, I pretty much stick with 2N5088s when making a Muff. The can range in hfe from high 300s to high 800s.


Nope, try it and use your ears. Is it really a "Russian" BM if you start changing components?
The small changes define the numerous BM versions. 
The beauty of DIY is you can change anything you want, however you want. Perhaps a minor point but if you start with the Russian BM schematic and mod it to taste is it still "Russian"?


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

MetalTele79 said:


> I sold my black Muff a couple weeks ago. It was a fantastic pedal but it's pretty big and battery only. I'm currently waiting for a deal on the Rams Head Muff reissue as a smaller replacement that should be close enough to keep me satisfied.


If you're looking for the BR sound I think the Green Russian gets the closest of the reissues. It's definitely a little bassier and gainy than the BR, but with sufficient knob fiddling it's close. That being said, when @mhammer and I were playing my GRRI, BR and the BR clone he made me all together the BR and the clone seemed to be identical.


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

I don't think "cdelano v russia" is grammatically correct.
That translates to "Did in Russia".


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

When Okay Player came over the other day, he brought the black and green Russian muffs you see in the picture. Here's what I built for him, in a nice black powder-coated box I got from NextGen. I had some yellow rub-on lettering from a hobby shop. You can't see it, but the LED is also yellow. I would have liked to have mounted the power jack at the rear, but the enclosure (1590B) was too small to permit.

We A/B'd it with his Black Russian, pressing both stompswitches simultaneously to have one on and then the other, and they sound identical. 

The interesting news is that pretty much ANY Muff can be easily modded to Russian specs, simply by changing some resistors.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I'm jelly.


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## MetalTele79 (Jul 20, 2020)

Okay Player said:


> If you're looking for the BR sound I think the Green Russian gets the closest of the reissues. It's definitely a little bassier and gainy than the BR, but with sufficient knob fiddling it's close. That being said, when @mhammer and I were playing my GRRI, BR and the BR clone he made me all together the BR and the clone seemed to be identical.


Thanks for the recommendation. I really should go and check out all the re-issues to see which one suits me the best. I think I had decided on the Ram's Head based on the comparison video below.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

MetalTele79 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. I really should go and check out all the re-issues to see which one suits me the best. I think I had decided on the Ram's Head based on the comparison video below.


I'm going to be honest, I want all 4 of them and have literally no reason too other than I think they look really cool.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

MetalTele79 said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. I really should go and check out all the re-issues to see which one suits me the best. I think I had decided on the Ram's Head based on the comparison video below.


I am always skeptical of such "shootouts" that rely on ONE single example of a particular issue. Component tolerances can lead to individual pedals from a given issue sounding different from each other. At the very least,n pots are rather imprecise, and where a knob indicator points to visually is not necessarily indicative of what is going on electronically.

That said, manufacturing standards have resulted in more consistent component values and closer tolerances. Mike Matthews noted in a business magazine interview about 15 years back that if you pulled any 4 consecutively built Big Muffs off the line in the 1970s, they would all sound different from each other. Indeed, if you looked at the insides of them,the capacitors would vary considerably from pedal to pedal,since he was often using batches bought from different suppliers (including surplus). I expect the models shown in the video to be more consistent in their sound, for the model, than their original counterparts. For instance, consider the construction of this recent-issue Green Russian BMP. Some surface-mount components, and much higher quality of (mostly) plastic caps.








Against these much earlier versions of the same circuit: The Big Muff History of All Versions - Sovtek Big Muffs

Much less consistency in the types of caps used, and in some instances the resistors are a disparate collection of different wattages and composition. If one has built much, you quickly come to realize that what it says on a component bears only a family resemblance to what the value is supposed to be. A 100k pot measures 87K and even though it's "linear", the midpoint (where the exact same amount of resistance is on each side of the wiper) is at 1:00,not 12:00. Are the reissues faithful to the circuit *as drawn* in the schematic? Yeah probably. But which production units were used as the comparison when the reissues were eventually produced?

I honestly don't know if the Black Russian I made for Okay Player was identical to ALL Black Russian Muffs. I do know it sounded identical to the one he had that was too big for a pedalboard. Since that was the objective, I hit a home run. But I don't know if it sounds identical to other originals from the same issue. IF I was to have, say, a dozen randomly selected original Black Russian BMPs and they were indistinguishable from each other, once all controls were set in an electronically identical fashion, then maybe one could launch into generalities about that particular issue. But I think we both know that the vast majority of "shootouts" will never ever do that.


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

Bought my Russian Big Muff in 2007 and prefer it much more over the 2007 'NYC Reissue' Big Muff.










Click the link for everything you ever wanted to know about Muff,... ahhhh-errr,... Big Muff. - The Big Muff Pi Page


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Midnight Rider said:


> Bought my Russian Big Muff in 2007 and prefer it much more over the same American black box version.
> View attachment 388610
> 
> 
> Click the link for everything you ever wanted to know about Muff,... ahhhh-errr,... Big Muff. - The Big Muff Pi Page


American black box version?


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## Midnight Rider (Apr 2, 2015)

Okay Player said:


> American black box version?


Thanks for pointing that out. Must have had Black Russian on the brain. The USA unit I was referring to was the 2007 'NYC Reissue' Big Muff. I remember switching back and forth at the music store for over a half hour and the 2007 Black Russian small box had a better tonal quality to my ear.


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