# Looking for a small wattage tube build



## cdayo (Jan 28, 2014)

Hey guys,

recently I came across this post on ebay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121280587964?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Really wanted to jump on it to start my first build but I decided it was little too advanced for me ATM and the bassman 10 has mixed reviews. Not looking to spend lots of cash on something I might screw up as it would be my first build.

Just wondering if you guys have any advice on small tube schems (something that would be a little less advanced than that piece.)

Would I just be better off buying a kit? I just can't stand how the kits are in many cases more expensive than the amps themselves. 

Its not so much the electronics that scare me but the chassis work. That is why I feel like a kit might be the best option.

Thanks!

C


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Chassis work - do you have or can you access a drill press? If yes, the work isn't that bad. If no, there's a Canadian guy who does pre-cut (at least partially) chassis, for around $50 delivered.

Have you seen the AX84 projects? http://ax84.com/classicprojects.html I just built the most advanced of the 4 (the SEL), and it wasn't bad at all. I did hack the power & standby switch openings a bit, but had I taken my time and used the right tool for the job, it wouldn't have been as bad - even then, I used switches that hide most of the hackery. My build log is here http://www.guitarscanada.com/showthread.php?60743-AX84-SEL-Build-Log

All in, and not counting tubes, that project cost me a little under $400, by far the largest single cost being the transformers (around $150 shipped). I still don't have it in a headshell.

Oh, and the ebay circuit board - maybe $50 worth of components there, not worth the asking price unless you put value in the supposed fact that it's genuine Fender.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Well, the seller can't be beat. Great guy, very helpfull and sells nothing but top quality stuff. I buy all my boards and a lot of parts from him. He's got some simpler stuff for sale too, tweed champs, tweed deluxes, champs and vibro champs.
He sells bare boards and boards with components. He doesn't usually sell pots, jacks, tube sockets, transformers that you'd need to complete your build. I see in this case he does. Everything you'll need is there except a chassis and transformers.

now having said that.......for a first build I'm thinking a kit that includes everything might be a better way for you to go. There are Chinese kits for about $200 

Unless you're not in a hurry and you're alright with ordering a peice here and peice there and waiting for it all to come in. Transformer set is about $100, chassis anywhere from $40 to $200 depending on how original you want it to look, and another $50 for all the other misc parts you'll need. It's not cheaper, that for sure.


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

I started with an Epiphone Valve Junior years back now. If you can find one of those locally there is a lot you can do to them and tons of space to add tubes or front panel controls. A cheap catchall for learning on. I found one on Ontatio Kijiji for $80.

Then I went here: http://www.turretboards.com/guitar_amplifier_parts_epiphone_valve_junior.html and grabbed a turret board and parts to rebuild the amp with. I also purchased an output transformer but there is really no reason to do that.

Check out http://www.sewatt.com/ for forums on the Valve Junior. This is probably one of the best sources for mod info on the Valve Junior.

From there I didn't do much for rebuilding. I have taken a few crappy old amps and rebuilt the guts for a much better sound, but if I did a scratch build it would be a kit. It takes a lot of effort to choose parts, layout a chassis, build a cabinet and so forth.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

dcole said:


> I started with an Epiphone Valve Junior years back now. If you can find one of those locally there is a lot you can do to them and tons of space to add tubes or front panel controls. A cheap catchall for learning on. I found one on Ontatio Kijiji for $80.
> 
> Then I went here: http://www.turretboards.com/guitar_amplifier_parts_epiphone_valve_junior.html and grabbed a turret board and parts to rebuild the amp with. I also purchased an output transformer but there is really no reason to do that.
> 
> ...


I did a kit first (Trinity Triwatt, not really a beginner kit) and it was very rewarding still, even with step by step instructions. But building a scratch build, sourcing parts, doing my own chassis and turret board, and putting it all together, was FAR more rewarding AND educational. I learned lots on both builds but much more about how things really work on the AX84 build. Part of it was learning on my own, a big part too was the experts on this forum helping me out when I had questions. I learned theoretical stuff, like transformer wiring and what value switches to buy and implementing a DIY bias circuit, and I learned practical stuff, like butchering I mean cutting a chassis, building a turret board, and so forth.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Not wishing to derail this excellent thread...so I am only looking for a *quick Yes/No response.*
Are you still using Carbon Comp resistors in your *amp* builds? (not talking about pedal builds!)

Cheers

Dave


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

greco said:


> Not wishing to derail this excellent thread...so I am only looking for a *quick Yes/No response.*
> Are you still using Carbon Comp resistors in your *amp* builds? (not talking about pedal builds!)
> 
> Cheers
> ...


I still have those carbon comp resistors you sold me years ago, and have never used any of them. I think some came in the Triwatt kit, but I've done enough reading about how they drift over time and etc. that I just used 'normal' modern current production resistors when I built my AX84, and when I was building pedals.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

keto said:


> I still have those carbon comp resistors you sold me years ago, and have never used any of them. I think some came in the Triwatt kit, but I've done enough reading about how they drift over time and etc. that I just used 'normal' modern current production resistors when I built my AX84, and when I was building pedals.


Thanks Keto. I was a bit surprised to see the carbon comps being used on the board the OP was looking at possibly purchasing. I also know that some builders think that carbon comps have the "mojo" factor.

Cheers

Dave


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

greco said:


> Not wishing to derail this excellent thread...so I am only looking for a *quick Yes/No response.*
> Are you still using Carbon Comp resistors in your *amp* builds? (not talking about pedal builds!)
> 
> Cheers
> ...


I use metal film and carbon film resistors mostly. It's my understanding though that there are places it's ok to use carbon comps. We need one of the pro's to weigh in on this one. I see lots of carbon comp restistors still be sold. I think I read somewhere that the problem with carbon comp is they absorb humidity over time and change value.


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## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

I use Vishay PR series, 2 watt metal film resistors. They are big and brown and look old school compared to carbon film.


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## cdayo (Jan 28, 2014)

Some really great info and insight here...

As for the eBay board, I figured it was a little expensive, especially because I could probably do that aspect of the project easiest. I messaged him and he offered me several schematics, pictorials and even his own advice and help. No doubt a good seller, I think people should keep his other boards on their minds if they are looking for DIY pieces (boards for 5F6-A and bassmans). I would like to build a bassman one day.

Keto thanks for the tips on the AX site. Seems like it might be the place to start with Kits...although the eBay chinese kits might be okay too. I feel like that quality might be questionable though?)

As for the Carbon Comps...sonically are we going to hear a difference if a few of the resistors are CCs? I am somewhat skeptical but you never know. I just opened up an old Seabreeze stereophonic record player. All of the resistors are CCs and all look like they are sweating brown glue. Is this the humidity symptom? The Seabreeze doesn't work!

I should have been more clear about chassis work. What I meant by that is the work inside the chassis. I am thinking that includes the build order, how to create clean wiring, what wires are necessary (shielded, gauge). That is why I am feeling a kit might be good...I am a DIY man at heart though so I am not opposed to learning it myself!
:acigar:

I watched this movie and it gave me a lot of insight ... I thought they guy was kinda funny too. Very pleased with amp building.


[video=youtube;cEV1gluwcUM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEV1gluwcUM[/video]


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

The sponsor of the AX84 site isn't offering kits right now. I ordered all my parts individually - each project has a comprehensive parts list. I think you can get one version of the circuit board prebuilt from turretboards.com


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Hi cdayo,

Does this look like the brown glue that you are seeing in the Seabreeze record player?

It might be that you are seeing old resin residue from the soldering. 

BTW ..When you build your amp, that brown residue can be cleaned off. I use Q-tips and alcohol.
Others might suggest alternative ways of cleaning.

Cheers

Dave


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## cdayo (Jan 28, 2014)

greco said:


> Hi cdayo,
> 
> Does this look like the brown glue that you are seeing in the Seabreeze record player?
> 
> It might be that you are seeing old resin residue from the soldering.


I did think of that, so I just ripped down an took some pics but I don't think that is what it is. It's possible they could just be dirty but why would there be resin on top of the resistors? I might save this player for a little restore job as the schematic is glued inside.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

cdayo said:


> It's possible they could just be dirty but why would there be resin on top of the resistors? I might save this player for a little restore job as the schematic is glued inside.


We will need to wait to see comments from others.

How much more is there to the complete circuit? (just curious)

Cheers

Dave


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## cdayo (Jan 28, 2014)

dcole said:


> I found one on Ontatio Kijiji for $80.
> 
> Then I went here: http://www.turretboards.com/guitar_amplifier_parts_epiphone_valve_junior.html and grabbed a turret board and parts to rebuild the amp with. I also purchased an output transformer but there is really no reason to do that.
> 
> Check out http://www.sewatt.com/ for forums on the Valve Junior. This is probably one of the best sources for mod info on the Valve Junior.


I texted the guy about the V junior but he didn't get back to me. Seems like a good first project!



greco said:


> We will need to wait to see comments from others.
> 
> How much more is there to the complete circuit? (just curious)


There is enough to the circuit to have me stumped for a little bit. I see that the bigger cap is bulging a little bit on one of its ends (can't tell from the picture.)

The motor turns on and spins a little at both 33 and 45, it seems something is probably bunk within the motor, possibly the issue with the cap (if it is indeed bunk) is preventing proper current. Could be the CCs too. It almost doesn't matter because the needle on the unit is so terrible I wouldn't use it with any of my records. As i said, might require some thoughtful restoration with better parts.


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