# Do You See Anything Wrong With This Winter Tire Setup?



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

We just bought a new to us vehicle from a dealership in December. Along with the vehicle, we purchased new winter tires and steel rims. We just took the vehicle to our mechanic for the first time and he is concerned about these nuts. He says normally the nut and the stud should be flush. He says he was able to turn the nut seven times which he says is the minimum for safety. I contacted the service manager at the dealership and he said this is the wheel and nut combo they put on all the Highlanders and other vehicles.

I think normally they use those nuts where you can't see the stud. If that had been the case here, we wouldn't be having this conversation but as you can see the stud, it looks weird to our mechanic. I don't know much about this stuff. The tires are the correct size, so I'm assuming the wheels are as well.

Does everything look normal to you?

PS it looks like there's a crack in the rim above the nut on the left but I assure you there is not. Lighting, weld marks, etc.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

If the nuts are countersunk a bit into the rim then it looks like you’re probably fine. It looks off though.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

JBFairthorne said:


> If the nuts are countersunk a bit into the rim then it looks like you’re probably fine. It looks off though.


I know it looks weird. Like the nuts are barely attached but they are.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

To me that does not look right, however, I assume that these are conical nuts and extend inside the wheel seat and there may be more engagement that the picture implies and since there are seven full turns to tighten. At the very least is doesn't give a comfortable feeling. A quick Google search came back with a rule of thumb that the nut should be threaded on as far as the bolt's diameter i.e 15mm bolt needs 15mm of engagement.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

ZeroGravity said:


> To me that does not look right, however, I assume that these are conical nuts and extend inside the wheel seat and there may be more engagement that the picture implies and since there are seven full turns to tighten. At the very least is doesn't give a comfortable feeling. A quick Google search came back with a rule of thumb that the nut should be threaded on as far as the bolt's diameter i.e 15mm bolt needs 15mm of engagement.


Like these?






12mmx1.5 ET(Extended) Lug Nuts for 6 Lugs Aftermarket Wheels Only, Dynofit 24pc M12x1.5 Open End with 7mm Shank Lug Nuts for Toyota with Conical/Cone Seat, Special Lug Nuts for Spacers: Amazon.ca: Automotive


12mmx1.5 ET(Extended) Lug Nuts for 6 Lugs Aftermarket Wheels Only, Dynofit 24pc M12x1.5 Open End with 7mm Shank Lug Nuts for Toyota with Conical/Cone Seat, Special Lug Nuts for Spacers: Amazon.ca: Automotive



www.amazon.ca


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Normal? not really, but it is acceptable. If it concerns you, check or have your lug nuts checked for tightness every month while you have those tires/rims on.

On a drag strip or race track where safety standards are much higher, you would not be allowed on the track like that.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Guncho said:


> Like these?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Something to that effect, the shape can vary from conical to semi-spherical to what you have linked, but in those cases the threaded portion is extended beyond what you see.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Can you take a nut off yourself to confirm they extend into the hole on the rim and do engage at least the 7 turns?


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## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

Shouldnt be able to see the lug nut threads. Is that pictured with the winter rims? Just guessing that the summer rims will fit differently. 

Bit i think the winter rim isnt the proper size for the stud length. 

I wouldnt accept that as being safe at all.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

ZeroGravity said:


> Something to that effect, the shape can vary from conical to semi-spherical to what you have linked, but in those cases the threaded portion is extended beyond what you see.


Looking at my picture, it doesn't look like it to me. Does it to you?


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

tomee2 said:


> Can you take a nut off yourself to confirm they extend into the hole on the rim and do engage at least the 7 turns?


I don't really want to touch them but I'll ask my mechanic if they extend into the hole and he told me they engage at least the 7 turns.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

looks a little dodgy to me unless they are conical. I'd like to see what the lugs/nuts look like off the wheel though


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Hopefully you have the ones on the left. If all the threads sticking out of the wheel are covered you are probably ok. I'm not a fan of open nuts, they have a better chance of seizing on the studs. and they just look wrong. If they were close ended you wouldn't even think about it


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Thunderboy1975 said:


> Shouldnt be able to see the lug nut threads. Is that pictured with the winter rims? Just guessing that the summer rims will fit differently.
> 
> Bit i think the winter rim isnt the proper size for the stud length.
> 
> I wouldnt accept that as being safe at all.


Yes these are winter steel rims.

If the tires are the correct size for the vehicle, doesn't that mean the rims would be as well? Can you change studs?

One thing my mechanic thought to try is to go to where he orders rims, order a rim that is recommended for this vehicle and try it on the vehicle to see if it looks any different.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

knight_yyz said:


> looks a little dodgy to me unless they are conical. I'd like to see what the lugs/nuts look like off the wheel though


I would too. They look like they're held on by 3 threads, but if the nuts engage into the hole in the rim, then they could be held on by as many threads as a standard nut does and it just looks off.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

knight_yyz said:


> Hopefully you have the ones on the left. If all the threads sticking out of the wheel are covered you are probably ok. I'm not a fan of open nuts, they have a better chance of seizing on the studs. and they just look wrong
> View attachment 352580


They look flat to me but hard to say without taking one off. I've asked my mechanic what it looked like when he took one off.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Guncho said:


> Looking at my picture, it doesn't look like it to me. Does it to you?


Gut feel says no, but you can't really tell as @tomee2 said without taking one off and checking the shape of the lug nut and the seat. I kind of feel the same as @Thunderboy1975 that the rims aren't well matched to the application (even if they are "good enough"). I wouldn't be happy with it looking like that and think that the lugs should be at least flush with the lug nut.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

To the best of my knowlege there are no offsets for steelies. You need 17 inch you buy 17 inch. And pray they fit over your brakes. Looks like you have these... but it is impossible to tell for sure


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

ZeroGravity said:


> Gut feel says no, but you can't really tell as @tomee2 said without taking one off and checking the shape of the lug nut and the seat. I kind of feel the same as @Thunderboy1975 that the rims aren't well matched to the application (even if they are "good enough"). I wouldn't be happy with it looking like that and think that the lugs should be at least flush with the lug nut.


It's the difference between paying $60 a rim and $400 a rim. Your choice.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Lincoln said:


> It's the difference between paying $60 a rim and $400 a rim. Your choice.


Personally I don't care how they look, I just want my family to be safe. I accept that for 5-6 months of the year, our vehicles will look like army trucks.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Just heard from mechanic. He said they looked like these. Final verdict? Everything's ok? not ok?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

You're fine. it's just the open end that makes them look weird. All the stud threads sticking out of the wheel are covered.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

Lincoln said:


> It's the difference between paying $60 a rim and $400 a rim. Your choice.


Yes and no. It's more like these are probably multi-fit rims and not model specific. Model-specifc steelies still aren't all that expensive but they should fit properly. My cars unfortunately don't have any steel winters available so I end up with expensive alloys.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

knight_yyz said:


> You're fine. it's just the open end that makes them look weird. All the stud threads sticking out of the wheel are covered.


This, and if they were unsafe in any way neither the dealer nor mechanic should have ever installed them like that let alone let you drive away.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Guncho said:


> Personally I don't care how they look, I just want my family to be safe. I accept that for 5-6 months of the year, our vehicles will look like army trucks.


they are within spec. The figure I was taught was 75%, and you've got more than that. Counting the cone, you're probably 85 or 90%


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Thanks all I appreciate it!


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Guncho said:


> Can you change studs?


Yes.
I would do it come spring when you change the wheels.


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## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

Take a black sharpie and draw a line on the rim that continues up the nut on all five nuts. Monitor it often to start. You’ll be able to tell if there is movement or the nut is coming loose. Which is obviously bad. Point is there’s something tangible you can check visually.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Johnny Spune said:


> Take a black sharpie and draw a line on the rim that continues up the nut on all five nuts. Monitor it often to start. You’ll be able to tell if there is movement or the nut is coming loose. Which is obviously bad. Point is there’s something tangible you can check visually.


That's a great idea.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Lincoln said:


> It's the difference between paying $60 a rim and $400 a rim. Your choice.



LOL anyone paying $400 for a steel rim is a f**king idiot and is getting taken for a ride.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

What nuts are used with your summer tires? Not these I'm assuming.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

allthumbs56 said:


> What nuts are used with your summer tires? Not these I'm assuming.


No the summer rims are the OEM alloy rims so they have different nuts.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

gtrguy said:


> LOL anyone paying $400 for a steel rim is a f**king idiot and is getting taken for a ride.


no, the $400 would be the going price for OEM factory alloy wheels to match his summer rims and summer nuts.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

The bolt should extend at least one thread past the nut for maximum hold...short about 3 threads.










These ones are about 4 threads short:


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Guncho said:


> No the summer rims are the OEM alloy rims so they have different nuts.


Interesting. An alloy rim is usually thicker than a steel one so you think there'd be more thread available for the winter rims.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

This raise a question as my nuts are all capped, so that I do not see how far they are winded. :-/


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

The wheel is not on backwards?


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Hammerhands said:


> The wheel is not on backwards?


My mechanic assures me that would be impossible as it only goes on one way.


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## Thunderboy1975 (Sep 12, 2013)

gtrguy said:


> LOL anyone paying $400 for a steel rim is a fucking idiot and is getting taken for a ride.





Guncho said:


> Yes these are winter steel rims.
> 
> If the tires are the correct size for the vehicle, doesn't that mean the rims would be as well? Can you change studs?
> 
> One thing my mechanic thought to try is to go to where he orders rims, order a rim that is recommended for this vehicle and try it on the vehicle to see if it looks any different.


The more i read this thread im going say that countersinking the stud could be the nature of the nut and amount of torque being applyed is equal. They probably designed it around canadian weather, gotta take swelling into account i suppose.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Lincoln said:


> On a drag strip or race track where safety standards are much higher, you would not be allowed on the track like that.


They drag with winter tires on ? Woohoo ! LOL ...


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## VHTO (Feb 19, 2016)

On the plus side, the hub centre appears to be the right size. 
However, is the area circled in yellow a splitting of the metal? Or is it just the photo?

It does seem odd that the nuts are barely able to be threaded onto the wheel studs. Either the raised bosses on the steel wheel are too high, or perhaps the studs on the brake rotor are too short (aftermarket rotor?).


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

VHTO said:


> On the plus side, the hub centre appears to be the right size.
> However, is the area circled in yellow a splitting of the metal? Or is it just the photo?
> 
> It does seem odd that the nuts are barely able to be threaded onto the wheel studs. Either the raised bosses on the steel wheel are too high, or perhaps the studs on the brake rotor are too short (aftermarket rotor?).


There's no crack. It just looks that way. The nuts extend into the rim so there's lots of nut threaded onto the stud. As someone said like 80%.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Lincoln said:


> On a drag strip or race track where safety standards are much higher, you would not be allowed on the track like that.


I’d put a few tack welds on those lugs then they ain’t goin nowhere maybe hit up the diff at the same time make it a Lincoln Locker.. lol

But yeah, I don’t like the look of those and I’d go with own experience on that.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Wardo said:


> I’d put a few tack welds on those lugs then they ain’t goin nowhere maybe hit up the diff at the same time make it a Lincoln Locker.. lol
> 
> But yeah, I don’t like the look of those and I’d go with own experience on that.


I hate my 9" Lincoln Locker. What a bear to drive on asphalt with the 35x12.5R15s.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

cboutilier said:


> I hate my 9" Lincoln Locker. What a bear to drive on asphalt with the 35x12.5R15s.


Throw it in, catch it on opposite lock, balance on the throttle and perpetrate an outrage on the public highway .. lol


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

theres not a lot of thread being grabbed, thats for sure....its weird to me, that the wheel studs seem so short with steelies on, after all the steel rim is pretty thin and those nuts arent particularly deep.
But I wont second guess your mechanic who has seen/touched these wheels.

I had a problem many years ago on an old corvette when I went to aftermarket aluminum rims which were thicker than OEM. Prob only 3 or so thread caught, and yes once the stud(s) got sheared off...only 1 was holding by the time I came to a stop on the highway.

Once also lost a wheel on the 401 on my Durango just after the Walmart tire guy put my summer wheels back on and didnt tighten them enough. Terrible feeling watching your own wheel go past you at highway speeds....all I could think of was "please god dont let it hit another car/cause an accident".
The times Ive lost lug nuts or had wheel studs sheared off, were much less catastrophic than you would think.

if its any consolation, winters almost over...if something was going to happen, it probably would have by now  Maybe change them over a little earlier this year. Wiarton Willy says it will be ok


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Guncho said:


> Yes these are winter steel rims.
> 
> If the tires are the correct size for the vehicle, doesn't that mean the rims would be as well? Can you change studs?
> 
> One thing my mechanic thought to try is to go to where he orders rims, order a rim that is recommended for this vehicle and try it on the vehicle to see if it looks any different.


The wheels might or might not be the "correct ones" for the vehicle, they could be ones that 'will fit' on the vehicle. You can change studs but will the ones you change to work with the summer wheels and lug nuts. Are those the original lug nuts or did they get supplied with the steel rims? If the original lug nuts look like this








going to a longer lug might pop the cap off them. Looks like there's an indentation in the rim where the coned part of the lug nut goes.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> The wheels might or might not be the "correct ones" for the vehicle, they could be ones that 'will fit' on the vehicle. You can change studs but will the ones you change to work with the summer wheels and lug nuts. Are those the original lug nuts or did they get supplied with the steel rims? If the original lug nuts look like this
> View attachment 352676
> 
> going to a longer lug might pop the cap off them. Looks like there's an indentation in the rim where the coned part of the lug nut goes.


We bought the used vehicle in December from a Toyota dealership and purchased the steel rims and winter tires at the time. These are not the lug nuts that go with the summer alloy wheels.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

studs are too short.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> studs are too short.


I'm assuming these are the studs that came on the vehicle new. It's a 2018.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Guncho said:


> I'm assuming these are the studs that came on the vehicle new. It's a 2018.


should be thread showing on the studs with the nuts tight. Wrong wheels for the car (ie after market B.S) or they have a adapter behind the wheels. Jack up the car and pull one off and check.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> should be thread showing on the studs with the nuts tight. Wrong wheels for the car (ie after market B.S) or they have a adapter behind the wheels. Jack up the car and pull one off and check.


From what I gather these generic steel rims are not car specific. They are just 17", 18", 19", etc. The tires are the correct size for the vehicle so I assume the rims are as well.

Don't think there is an adapter or my mechanic would have seen it.

I think the answer here is it just looks funny but is totally normal as the nuts are not flat. There's more nut below the surface of the rim.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

That is unsafe and I would not drive on it.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> That is unsafe and I would not drive on it.


I don't think so but my mechanic is still investigating


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Guncho said:


> I don't think so but my mechanic is still investigating


Not much of a mechanic if he can not look and say no go. Find another. _ I was raised in a family of mechanics. Lots of parts changers out there. That is what your mechanic is. I don't no any that would let that out the door._


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> Not much of a mechanic if he can not look and say no go. Find another. _ I was raised in a family of mechanics. Lots of parts changers out there. That is what your mechanic is._


Ok thanks. You realize there is more nut on the tire than you can see right?


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Guncho said:


> Ok thanks. You realize there is more nut on the tire than you can see right?


I no what I see and it is in mechanic terms NFG.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> I no what I see and it is in mechanic terms NFG.


You are a licensed mechanic?


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Guncho said:


> You are a licensed mechanic?


no but some things are just common sense. My father and brother are licensed and I was raised doing my own repairs. Do what you want but that is my opinion.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> no but some things are just common sense. My father and brother are licensed and I was raised doing my own repairs. Do what you want but that is my opinion.


I appreciate your opinion. I do. Some people here share your opinion, others do not. Once people pointed out that there's more nut than you can see and the service manager of the Toyota dealership assured me everything was fine that was enough for me. My mechanic is not convinced and is still investigating. He might order another rim and see if there is any difference. Personally I think if they had used the normal sealed lug nuts where you can't see the stud we wouldn't be having this conversation.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

__





winter wheel mounted - Google Search






www.google.ca




Note the torque wrench picture. That's is proper stud and nut .


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That picture shows sealed lug nuts. There's no way to tell how much the lug nut is threaded onto the stud.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

hmm scroll down to the "how to change summer to winter tires picture" that is studs and nuts and one lock nut. Note no bulging metal on wheels at the stud like your wheels.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> hmm scroll down to the "how to change summer to winter tires picture" that is studs and nuts and one lock nut. Note no bulging metal on wheels at the stud like your wheels.


Yeah this picture?


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

sorry My eyes are bad. No zoom. But if it was nuts and studs that would be about right. That tin cover is so the stud can go completely through the nut in that picture.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> sorry My eyes are bad. No zoom. But if it was nuts and studs that would be about right.


Yeah those nuts are sealed. What you are seeing sticking out of them is not the stud. You are only seeing nut.

This is what you are posting.









This is what I have.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

all that cap area is for the stud that sticks through the nut, The nut area is all that is threaded. The cap is hollow.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> all that cap area is for the stud that sticks through the nut, The nut area is all that is threaded. The cap is hollow.


I know. My point is, with the lug nuts that have the cap, you have no idea how much of the nut is threaded onto the stud. That's why mine look weird to you. You are used to seeing the nuts with caps.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Again the stud should have at least two thread's showing with the nut on. The stud should go all the way through the nut. Look at your original picture it is wrong.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> Again the stud should have at least two thread's showing with the nut on. The stud should go all the way through the nut.


If the stud has a cap on it you wouldn't be able to see if any threads were showing or be able to tell if the stud goes all the way through the nut or not.

Right?


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

the cap is there so the stud can go completely through the nut. I am not changing my mind. The cap is just for appearance..and chrome.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> the cap is there so the stud can go completely through the nut. I am not changing my mind.


That's fine. It doesn't mean it is and as you can't see it, you can't tell.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Good luck with it.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> Good luck with it.


Thanks. I do appreciate you taking the time to respond. My mechanic is still looking into and I will do whatever he recommends. I know you don't think much of him but keep in mind that he's had hands on the vehicle and is not going by some slightly out of focus pictures.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

This is a case of the nuts are thicker than the stud sticking out of the wheel. If the nuts are 1 inch thick and there is 3/4 inch of stud, they are going to look wonky. If the stud was 6 inches long and the nut was 7 inches thick you would still be whining because it looks wrong. I wish I had my machinist clamp system at home to prove the point. 


\thread


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

I would not want to drive on those. Something ain’t right. Is there a centering ring behind the wheel causing it to protrude a few millimeters?

Then again, I would not drive around on steelies either. Spend a few extra bucks and get another set of alloy rims. Why would you want you car to look like shit 6 months of the year?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I'm curious.... In the picture below how many threads are engaged? 1 ? 15? 67? how can you tell? Whether you use the nut on the left or the nut on the right they are going to engage the same number of threads. The only difference is you can see the threads on the open end nut. If the OP posted a pic with the nut on the left this thread would have ended ages ago...


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

knight_yyz said:


> View attachment 352738
> 
> 
> I'm curious.... In the picture below how many threads are engaged? 1 ? 15? 67? how can you tell? Whether you use the nut on the left or the nut on the right they are going to engage the same number of threads. The only difference is you can see the threads on the open end nut. If the OP posted a pic with the nut on the left this thread would have ended ages ago...
> ...


Exactly.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Sneaky said:


> I would not want to drive on those. Something ain’t right. Is there a centering ring behind the wheel causing it to protrude a few millimeters?
> 
> Then again, I would not drive around on steelies either. Spend a few extra bucks and get another set of alloy rims. Why would you want you car to look like shit 6 months of the year?


I accept it as a fact of life living in Canada.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Have you ever driven in deep snow with mags on? If you want to wear out your wheel bearings extra fast it's the best way. It's freaking awesome when the snow gets all packed up in one area of the wheel and they go out of balance!! Been there done that !! You obviously have not. And where are you guys shopping that aluminum rims are " a few bucks" more... If a 17" costs about 75 bucks i would love to find some brand spanking new aluminum rims at 80 bucks a piece. SMFH...


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

knight_yyz said:


> ....this thread would have ended ages ago...


Excellent pun!


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

knight_yyz said:


> Have you ever driven in deep snow with mags on? If you want to wear out your wheel bearings extra fast it's the best way. It's freaking awesome when the snow gets all packed up in one area of the wheel and they go out of balance!! Been there done that !! You obviously have not. And where are you guys shopping that aluminum rims are " a few bucks" more... If a 17" costs about 75 bucks i would love to find some brand spanking new aluminum rims at 80 bucks a piece. SMFH...


These guys have several 17 inchers for $120 or so. Never had any issues with deep snow.









Alloy Wheels


Large selection of summer tires - All Season tires - Winter tires - Alloy wheels - Mags - Steel wheels online at discounted prices on TireDirect. FAST shipping in Canada. Shop car tires and wheels now!




tiredirect.ca


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

What matters is how many threads are engaged not how many stick out of the nut. The point made above that long nuts with covers on them also have unused threads is right, and under the cover it might also look like the nut isn't fully engaged, but they're longer and could be engaged on a lot of threads.
What I don't like that I see in the picture is that they look like shallow nuts, so unless the nut extends into the rim with an extension, so the hole in the rim is pretty large to allow this, then it does look a bit off just going from the picture.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

tomee2 said:


> What matters is how many threads are engaged not how many stick out of the nut. The points made above that long nuts with covers on them also have unused threads is a good, and under the cover it looks like nut isn't fully engaged, but they're longer and engage on a lot of threads.
> What I dont like that I see in the picture is that they look like shallow nuts, so unless the nut extends into the rim with an extension it does look a bit off just going from the picture.


The nuts do extend into the rims.


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## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

Several things are going on.

Most likely the wheel itself is not a factory spec wheel, even though it ”fits” snuggly where it is supposed to.

The dimpled height around the stud is the main issue. The correct wheel and matching nut are the resolve.

The supplied nut works properly for the regular wheels?

Any wheel nut that can be turned by hand 6 full threads is “safe“, although full engagement is preferred with a few more threads is ideal. The look is wrong, but it is safe if it is torqued with a torque wrench, in the proper orientation, then checked with a torque wrench one or more times after 40 to 50 miles. Safe driving practice must be adhered to. Use a torque wrench with finesse, not like a gorilla. Keep your torque wrench in spec, and store it by following proper procedures.

As for racetrack mentality. NHRA specs when I used to race, considered any thread engagement with a nut to be used in a race car, to use a washer, lock washer, and a minimum of 6 threads. Also an upgrade in the bolt spec to a grade 8, where many automotive bolts can be a grade 5 spec at that time. That is for assembly in general. When it comes to wheels, speed, ET, cornering, etc., bring about stricter safety measures regarding thread engagement. It is obvious that when vehicles are modified to exceed manufacturing specs, greater attention and upgrades are eminently of greater importance, defined, and rulebook specs adhered to.

Basically a non factory, generic wheel is being used, and a safer alternative could be used.

If you read any “glovebox manual“ for a car, you will pretty much read disclaimers about proper use of your vehicle with winter, or snow tires. My SRT Jeep which easily hits 150 mph safely with the proper spec tires and rims, cautions to drive no faster than 70-80 mph, or less with winter, or snow tires. Apply the same theory, and greater caution, to driving a daily driver, that is not refined for speed.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

@Sneaky can I borrow a few bucks? LMAO I don't consider 200$ " a few bucks"


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

To each their own I guess. I’m not going to pay $60k for a new car and worry about spending an extra $200 for winter rims. I don’t buy cheap shoes either, so maybe it’s just me.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

well I took off one chrome caped nut and put on a regular nut to demonstrate what you should have going on.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Clearly you have too much time on your hands.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

JBFairthorne said:


> Clearly you have too much time on your hands.


Yes rain day and I should be skiing. Really just want Guncho to fix it right and not get into a bad situation. 5 minutes is all I spent.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Distortion said:


> well I took off one chrome caped nut and put on a regular nut to demonstrate what you should have going on.


That's my comfort zone too.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Tone Chaser said:


> Several things are going on.
> 
> Most likely the wheel itself is not a factory spec wheel, even though it ”fits” snuggly where it is supposed to.
> 
> ...


These are generic steel rims.

The winter steel rims and the summer alloy rims each have their own set of nuts. They are not shared.

These were purchased and installed from a Toyota dealership and they claim this is their standard winter setup.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Sneaky said:


> To each their own I guess. I’m not going to pay $60k for a new car and worry about spending an extra $200 for winter rims. I don’t buy cheap shoes either, so maybe it’s just me.


These rims cost $500.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> well I took off one chrome caped nut and put on a regular nut to demonstrate what you should have going on.
> View attachment 352757


On this chart which is the lug nut you used? Mine is the middle one.

My nut is 1.5cm from the rim. What is yours?


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Distortion said:


> Yes rain day and I should be skiing. Really just want Guncho to fix it right and not get into a bad situation. 5 minutes is all I spent.


I appreciate it.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Guncho said:


> These rims cost $500.


$500 for all 4 from a dealer seems ok to me.
Is it a Toyota Venza?

A coworker had an AWD Venza with 19inch alloy wheels, and he had a heck of a time finding winter rims because the brake disc diameter. I think bought a 2nd set of stock alloys. Living in QC he needed winters


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

tomee2 said:


> Toyota Venza?


Highlander.

(In the end there can be just one)

Sorry I hear that in my head every time anyone says "Highlander".


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Guncho said:


> Sorry I hear that in my head every time anyone says "Highlander".


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

tomee2 said:


> $500 for all 4 from a dealer seems ok to me.
> Is it a Toyota Venza?
> 
> A coworker had an AWD Venza with 19inch alloy wheels, and he had a heck of a time finding winter rims because the brake disc diameter. I think bought a 2nd set of stock alloys. Living in QC he needed winters


Same here. My spare tire won't fit on the front. Only the back. I have 4 pot calipers up front and they are huge. Stock wheel size is 21. They don't make steelies
over 18" IIRC


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Guncho said:


> These rims cost $500.


That was the point I was trying to make. Not that they are $200 for the set, but $200 more than YYZ’s $300 set of steelies. For $500 you could buy a set of decent non OEM alloy rims from the place I posted.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Sneaky said:


> That was the point I was trying to make. Not that they are $200 for the set, but $200 more than YYZ’s $300 set of steelies. For $500 you could buy a set of decent non OEM alloy rims from the place I posted.


I think I mentioned it before. I don't care what the rims look like. I'm ok with driving on steel rims for part of the year. I wanted to drive the car off the lot with winter tires on it. I did not want to have to deal with a whole other store and appointment. I don't think there's anything wrong with my winter tires.


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## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

I see this all the time with winter wheel packages in Toyota and Nissan. They use short wheel studs. The oem alloy wheel has a shoulder that the oem nut sits on and has a long threaded part that extends into the wheel. So what you have is a generic wheel and tire package and I would not send anyone away with that setup. Sure it’s safe but it just doesn’t look proper. Here’s what your oem wheel nuts look like and that’s why those are wrong.









So looking at this picture and your lug nuts, you technically only have half the threaded portion securing your wheels. The summer oem wheels you have with lug nuts will pretty much have the entire stud inside that lug nut.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

JonnyD said:


> I see this all the time with winter wheel packages in Toyota and Nissan. They use short wheel studs. The oem alloy wheel has a shoulder that the oem nut sits on and has a long threaded part that extends into the wheel. So what you have is a generic wheel and tire package and I would not send anyone away with that setup. Sure it’s safe but it just doesn’t look proper. Here’s what your oem wheel nuts look like and that’s why those are wrong.
> View attachment 352871
> 
> 
> So looking at this picture and your lug nuts, you technically only have half the threaded portion securing your wheels. The summer oem wheels you have with lug nuts will pretty much have the entire stud inside that lug nut.


As long as it's safe I don't care what it looks like.

You know that the nuts on my wheels now extend into the wheel right? There's more to them than appears on the surface. If they were just flat nuts I would say half. As they extend into the wheel it's easily 75%.

Right?

What I have now is the ball ones, not the flat ones.


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## Keebsguitars (Jan 23, 2021)

I am a class A mechanic, the rims look wrong. Order the correct rims for the vehicle, a few hundred bucks is good piece of mind. I am on on here because of guitars....but get the correct rims.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Keebsguitars said:


> I am a class A mechanic, the rims look wrong. Order the correct rims for the vehicle, a few hundred bucks is good piece of mind. I am on on here because of guitars....but get the correct rims.


I do have the OEM rims for summer but needed rims for winter. Are there correct steel rims for this vehicle or are you saying no steel rims would be correct for this vehicle? These are the rims purchased and recommended by a Toyota dealership. If a Toyota dealership can't figure out which are the correct rims for a 2018 Toyota who can?


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## Keebsguitars (Jan 23, 2021)

I have always ordered rims from Costco, bang on every time....


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Keebsguitars said:


> I have always ordered rims from Costco, bang on every time....


Well the one thing my mechanic suggested is he will order a steel rim from where he gets rims and try it on the vehicle to see if it looks any different and go from there.


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## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

I’m also a journeyman mechanic for the past 20 plus years. In this case you may not be able to get still wheels for your vehicle. So you install winter tires on you factory wheels so you have 100% properly fitting lug nuts. Was it a Toyota mechanic or a salesman that gave you the thumbs up? Winters almost over so you made it this far.

The stud should stick out way past the top of the nut. Your factory wheels and lug nut design will have the nut extend into the wheel and almost touch the brake rotor giving you pretty much full contact of the stud threads. Here’s another fun picture to show this, your factory wheels are “mag type” in this illustration. So picture your wheel stud pretty much the entire length of that mag type wheel nut, now look at what you have installed, safe enough I guess


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

JonnyD said:


> I’m also a journeyman mechanic for the past 20 plus years. In this case you may not be able to get still wheels for your vehicle. So you install winter tires on you factory wheels so you have 100% properly fitting lug nuts. Was it a Toyota mechanic or a salesman that gave you the thumbs up? Winters almost over so you made it this far.
> 
> The stud should stick out way past the top of the nut. Your factory wheels and lug nut design will have the nut extend into the wheel and almost touch the brake rotor giving you pretty much full contact of the stud threads. Here’s another fun picture to show this, your factory wheels are “mag type” in this illustration. So picture your wheel stud pretty much the entire length of that mag type wheel nut, now look at what you have installed, safe enough I guess
> View attachment 352934


It was the service manager for the Toyota dealership who said this is the setup they use for their winter tires packages for Highlanders and other vehicles.

I checked with my mechanic who took a lug nut off and he said these are speherical not mag so they extend further onto the stud than what is visible.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Guncho said:


> If the stud has a cap on it you wouldn't be able to see if any threads were showing or be able to tell if the stud goes all the way through the nut or not.
> 
> Right?


That reminded me of when Trump said if we stop testing we wouldn't have corona virus.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

This thread is nuts


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Jim DaddyO said:


> This thread is nuts


You big lug.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Bottom line is, the dealership accepted responsibility for those wheels and your safety when they installed the winter wheels on your vehicle. If there was any doubt at all, they would have never done it.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Lincoln said:


> Bottom line is, the dealership accepted responsibility for those wheels and your safety when they installed the winter wheels on your vehicle. If there was any doubt at all, they would have never done it.


Never trust the stealerships. They're liars and thieves. They don't care about his safety, they care about getting rid of the rims they bought that don't fit right.


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## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 352964


I don’t know if your seriously asking or not but I’ve been here before. Helping a neighbour that had nicely rounded the wheel nuts using the wrong sized socket. Had to use a die grinder and grind the nut from the outside to as close to the threads as I could without hitting the threads-in a couple spots. Then split the nut away with hammer and chisel. Much cursing was also required. Would’ve rather been playing guitar. But when decent people need help I help.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

player99 said:


> Never trust the stealerships. They're liars and thieves. They don't care about his safety, they care about getting rid of the rims they bought that don't fit right.


Everyone is out to get you.


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## Keebsguitars (Jan 23, 2021)

The rim is garbage anyway, torch......install a new stud.


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## Keebsguitars (Jan 23, 2021)

Or drill it out, install new stud


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## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

I’m with you on the torch if the rim is toast. In my case the neighbours rim was good and I really didn’t want to start changing studs.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Guncho said:


> Everyone is out to get you.


Especially Toyota stealerships. I have a Toyota and the first time I brought my used Toyota to the stealership they put exactly 1 extra litre of oil in the motor when they did an oil change. I noticed the motor was knocking. So I went to another Toyota stealership 60 miles away to get my headlights adjusted. They came back and said they have burned out the lighting harness and it would be hundreds of dollars. I bought a used one for $35 and changed out their mistake on my own. I also bought OEM windshield wipers from them. Of course they sold and installed the wrong size. So now I go anywhere but the Toyota stealerships. Or any stealerships. I also have a Dodge Grand Caravan. I could go on and on with the Dodge ripoffs but I think I have made my point.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Johnny Spune said:


> Helping a neighbour that had nicely rounded the wheel nuts using the wrong sized socket.


I had to mash a socket onto one of those locking lug nuts because it was screwed up. Got it off but the socket and the nut were united forever after that .. lol.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Johnny Spune said:


> I don’t know if your seriously asking or not but I’ve been here before.


Just a meme to liven things up a bit. lol


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

player99 said:


> So now I go anywhere but the Toyota stealerships. Or any stealerships.


You must have really ticked somebody off. They have your VIN and they've put out an APB on you. If you're lucky they may not alert the indies, but it could just be a matter of time.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 352964


reminds me of the guy who lived across the street from me years ago. Beautiful silver 71 to 73 Mustang fastback, he'd be working on it, and something would piss him off. He'd lose his mind and start beating on the body of the car with a hammer. Pretty much once a week he'd beat the can off this poor car. 😞


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

jb welder said:


> You must have really ticked somebody off. They have your VIN and they've put out an APB on you. If you're lucky they may not alert the indies, but it could just be a matter of time.


I am not a lone voice. Many people stay clear. On the independent Toyota forums nobody uses the stealerships for anything unless they have to. Tranny flushes are one thing they will use them for because a special pump / machine is required. But I can't think of anything else.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

At the local Dodge the only people that use them are the elderly. None of them get out under $1000, and most are in the $2K+ bill zone. I have sat there with my father for an hour or 2 while waiting for him to get ripped off and watched the theft. I know it's theft because when I bought my father's old van they did an inspection. They found all kinds of things wrong with it and wanted over $3K in repairs. One of the things was something I remembered he had done recently. When I mentioned it they stalled for about 1 hour then came back and said it was still under warranty but now it didn't need to be done. I took the van without letting them do anything. Nothing they said I needed was done in the first 2 or 3 years at least. A total rip off.


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## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

player99 said:


> At the local Dodge the only people that use them are the elderly. None of them get out under $1000, and most are in the $2K+ bill zone. I have sat there with my father for an hour or 2 while waiting for him to get ripped off and watched the theft. I know it's theft because when I bought my father's old van they did an inspection. They found all kinds of things wrong with it and wanted over $3K in repairs. One of the things was something I remembered he had done recently. When I mentioned it they stalled for about 1 hour then came back and said it was still under warranty but now it didn't need to be done. I took the van without letting them do anything. Nothing they said I needed was done in the first 2 or 3 years at least. A total rip off.


Tell you what Player, every time I go to a dealership I seem to pay a ton of cash. I’m pretty sure they aren’t charging me the absolute minimum. And here’s one-I’m pretty sure some of these cars are engineered to break or have parts with a short lifespan. Parts sales and repairs are big money.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Johnny Spune said:


> Tell you what Player, every time I go to a dealership I seem to pay a ton of cash. I’m pretty sure they aren’t charging me the absolute minimum. And here’s one-I’m pretty sure some of these cars are engineered to break or have parts with a short lifespan. Parts sales and repairs are big money.


Now I have a mechanic that came recommended. He works on his own. He will check it out, tell me what I need, I get the parts, then he fixes it. For example I went to a repair shop that said I needed 4 wheel bearings and it would be at least $2500. I bought the bearings, (I only needed 2) and my mechanic charged me about $75 to put them on. I am also there when he does the work, so I am learning and I know the guy is not trying to over charge or add parts I don't need. He has made an error, but he takes care of it and at least he is honest and doesn't lie about it.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Johnny Spune said:


> I don’t know if your seriously asking or not but I’ve been here before. Helping a neighbour that had nicely rounded the wheel nuts using the wrong sized socket. Had to use a die grinder and grind the nut from the outside to as close to the threads as I could without hitting the threads-in a couple spots. Then split the nut away with hammer and chisel. Much cursing was also required. Would’ve rather been playing guitar. But when decent people need help I help.


Used to get bush and farm trucks in the shop with rusted and rounded off lug nuts. Sometimes it took a torch to get them off, sometimes an air chisel and sometimes a grinder. Most times the lugs ended up getting replaced.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I had trouble at my mechanic's getting the locking nuts off my Grand Caravan this fall. I learned from Google to hammer on a socket that fits the round diameter. It has to be a little bit smaller and it crushes the spinner and off it comes.

Fuckers changed them out without asking at the stealership. They know fucking well it's a bad system and will generate business for them down the road.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> I had trouble at my mechanic's getting the locking nuts off my Grand Caravan this fall. I learned from Google to hammer on a socket that fits the round diameter. It has to be a little bit smaller and it crushes the spinner and off it comes.
> 
> Fuckers changed them out without asking at the stealership. They know fucking well it's a bad system and will generate business for them down the road.


Hammering on a socket? That can screw up the socket and doesn't always work plus it can screw up the threads on the lug bolt too. You didn't have the proper "key" for the lock lug? Did you check the spare tire or the glove compartment? Plus your mechanic didn't know how to get the lock lug off so you had to google it? If you know it's a bad system why didn't you have regular lug nuts put on the vehicle when you bought it? Don't newer vehicles come from the factory now with locking lug nuts?


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Perhaps this will help:









A Few Facts About Lug Nuts - Performance Plus Tire


Here are a few facts about wheel fasteners you should know before you bolt up your wheels on your ride. In order to match your lug nuts or bolts to your wheels, ensure: Proper Fastener Seat There are 3 basic type fastener seats; Conical Seat – cone shape Spherical Seat – round or ball shape […]




www.performanceplustire.com




.

*"Proper Thread Engagement.*_This is critically important. Make sure you have a *minimum thread engagement of the diameter of the vehicle stud* (as recommended by SAE). An example is, if the stud size of your vehicle is ½” then you will need a minimum of ½” of threads into the lug nut."_​


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Hammering on a socket? That can screw up the socket and doesn't always work plus it can screw up the threads on the lug bolt too. You didn't have the proper "key" for the lock lug? Did you check the spare tire or the glove compartment? Plus your mechanic didn't know how to get the lock lug off so you had to google it? If you know it's a bad system why didn't you have regular lug nuts put on the vehicle when you bought it? Don't newer vehicles come from the factory now with locking lug nuts?


They strip. The socket trick worked perfectly 3 times in a row. The alternative is to use a cutting torch, but the aluminum rims had recesses for the nuts so that would have ruined the rims. It worked perfectly. I even bought a special set of remover sockets that were useless. We had the original nuts, the stealership swapped them out without asking. It is a 2010.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Don't worry. Just keep saying 'steal' and it will come true. Just ask that other feller.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

player99 said:


> They strip. The socket trick worked perfectly 3 times in a row. The alternative is to use a cutting torch, but the aluminum rims had recesses for the nuts so that would have ruined the rims. It worked perfectly. I even bought a special set of remover sockets that were useless. We had the original nuts, the stealership swapped them out without asking. It is a 2010.


You see what they did there? You spent money regardless.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

LanceT said:


> You see what they did there? You spent money regardless.


I bought the set at Princess Auto and I WILL RETURN THEM!!!! lol


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

player99 said:


> I bought the set at Princess Auto and I WILL RETURN THEM!!!! lol


I’m sure it will be an enjoyable experience. I always thought PA had the worse product off-gassing of any store I’d been in.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

LanceT said:


> I’m sure it will be an enjoyable experience. I always thought PA had the worse product off-gassing of any store I’d been in.


I was at Canadian Tire once and the sales guy took the lid off a big plastic bin I was looking to buy and it was off gassing like crazy. He said it was the smell of China.
When a new box mall was built and a Staples opened it stunk so bad it made my eyes water. The worst store I can think of is Hart. But yes Princess Auto is bad. It is the cheap rubber tires I think.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

player99 said:


> I was at Canadian Tire once and the sales guy took the lid off a big plastic bin I was looking to buy and it was off gassing like crazy. He said it was the smell of China.
> When a new box mall was built and a Staples opened it stunk so bad it made my eyes water. The worst store I can think of is Hart. But yes Princess Auto is bad. It is the cheap rubber tires I think.


I used to work at Crappy Tire when I was in high school. I think I lost a pile of brain cells in the stock room with all those chemicals. Lol.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Sneaky said:


> I used to work at Crappy Tire when I was in high school. I think I lost a pile of brain cells in the stock room with all those chemicals. Lol.


I always wondered what was going on with those guys in the red shirts. I lost three of them one day in the parts department when one after another they went to look for brake pads that I needed and not one of them came back .. lol


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Wardo said:


> I always wondered what was going on with those guys in the red shirts. I lost three of them one day in the parts department when one after another they went to look for brake pads that I needed and not one of them came back .. lol


We had blue shirts and clip on ties in the 70’s. We also smoked a lot of hash in the stock room, so that could be part of it.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Sneaky said:


> We had blue shirts and clip on ties in the 70’s. We also smoked a lot of hash in the stock room, so that could be part of it.


Sounds about right. Were you the guy in charge of putting the price tags on the threads of things? Did you save any of the money from back then? 








Canadian Tire Money $ 1 1961 CTC.S1 - F | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Canadian Tire Money $ 1 1961 CTC.S1 - F at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.ca


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Sounds about right. Were you the guy in charge of putting the price tags on the threads of things? Did you save any of the money from back then?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wonder if people actually buy at those prices?
And if so, why?


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Sneaky said:


> We had blue shirts and clip on ties in the 70’s. We also smoked a lot of hash in the stock room, so that could be part of it.


Good times. The local CT was near where I lived so if I had my car apart in the driveway and needed something for it I could walk over and get it. Changed the starter on my truck once in the CT parking lot .. lol


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> Good times. The local CT was near where I lived so if I had my car apart in the driveway and needed something for it I could walk over and get it. Changed the starter on my truck once in the CT parking lot .. lol


Been there.


laristotle said:


> I wonder if people actually buy at those prices?
> And if so, why?


There was a used/bargain/thrift store in Bellows Falls VT. when I lived in Chester that sold Canadian Tire money along with BCRIC shares. People bought them....but for some reason not Canadians, strange. I saw the same thing in 'collectable' stores in Sacramento. I guess there are people who collect CT money and some bills could be worth more than face value.








Your Old Canadian Tire Money Could Be Worth A Lot More Than You Think | Nova Scotia Buzz


If you have a stash of Canadian Tire money you may want to check it because there are bills that were in circulation that are now worth a lot of money.




www.nsbuzz.ca




There was a time when the 5 share BCRIC certificate was worth a jug of beer or a meal in some Chinese restaurants but those days are over.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> People bought them....but for some reason not Canadians


When I was a kid, we'd go down south and I'd take CT money with me and spend it buying candy.
They would ask if it's real and I'd say, 'Yeah. That Scottish guy's our first Prime Minister'.


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