# Divorce/Separation



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

As mentioned, I will start a new thread, since the Boat thread posters took fair interest in this aspect of the thread.

TLR - bite me.

Firstly, I want readers to understand that this isn't about my ego. It seems narcissistic. Trust me when I say that it isn't - I don't need to prove myself to anyone. I have no desire to change a mind. My hopes are that I can help one person. 'Help' isn't exactly what I mean (@greco), maybe "shed some light', or promote introspection resulting in a strengthened relationship for someone out there that may need to hear this.

I'm going to warn you that I'm going to talk about spirituality. It makes a lot of people uncomfortable and aggressive, but it is a major factor concerning our separation. It is also the primary reason my ex and I still love each other immensely, but ultimately understand that there is a greater good.

So, to start at the beginning, when I was 18 something happened to me that changed me forever. The event/s caused me to leave school and stay home for about 3 months under the watch of my parents. I had to be watched when I went to sleep and with someone at all times. I was terrified at what I was witnessing ( It thought it was the collapse of my mind). Had this have happened in the east - in India or Tibet, I would have been completely fine (educated and taken care of in an Ashram). That said, my parents took me to a psychiatrist to essentially have me committed, haha (understandably). I was trying to describe my reality with a continual loss of words - which makes a person look like a stuttering idiot. Fortunately, a drummer from the relatively popular band "Wild Strawberries" had the exact same issue and went to the same shrink, so I was spared being strapped down in an insane asylum. The advice the drummer gave me over the phone was to keep my head down and keep working. Occupy my mind and it will fade away. So, I did - and it did. I was able to read about a year later and went to college and university. I read voraciously trying understand what the fuck happened (I went to school for philosophy/arts and moved into microbiology before dropping out in my 3rd or 4th year). I never talked about what happened out of fear of increasing the symptoms (my heart rate would increase, I would start to panic and it created a brutal cycle).

Fast forward to last year. My wife noticed increasing bravery when it came to talking about this event. She went to my high school, btw, so she remembers everyone talking about me behind my back. At the time, I was trying to finish my OAC year, but I would end up doing weird shit like Kriya Yoga in the middle of class involuntarily (I didn't realize it was yoga at the time), and my mom would have to come get me. I couldn't read anyway, so I stopped going. Fortunately, my grades were high enough that I was able to get into college.

My ex would well up when she saw me start to talk about it, because she knew I was trying to puff my chest at this invisible opponent that had been tormenting me for over 20 years. I'm crying as I write this. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. On a side, I've helped 2 people from the same torment/ potential suicide, but couldn't help a kid in Tobermory about 6 months ago; I believe he's gone (I'm going to hopefully find out on Thursday). That's how devastating this can be.

Moving on...

Something online triggered me to carefully start to research again. I posted a description of what happened to me on Reddit. Within the day, someone replied back and said, "Oh, you mean you had this happen?"

WTF!?! Solved? Yes. solved.

I've been trying to track that person down to thank them and send them a gift, but I can't. I got that username banned, because I made fun of a pompous shitty guitarist, haha.

The funny thing is that it happened to 2 of my friends at the same time, but they got better. They spoke to their drama teacher the next week who told them the same thing I just found out from the reddit person. But, since my parents had me under quarantine, no friends were allowed to see me (I didn't want to see them any way). Being teens, they never remembered to tell me and everyone knew to never bring it up to me again. And they didn't - for 25 years. Coincidentally, my father has been dying to talk about it ever since, but would never bring it up.

I have to get ready for work. But, before you all start thinking I'm even more crazy than you thought, I've been to shrinks to confirm that I'm not (sometimes I simply can't believe what I'm thinking). Essentially, I have an understanding of things inline with the Vedic Religion. I guess I can hide behind the protection of that, right? Haha. Further, Carl Jung having my back sure helps.

On a serious note, I don't want to weird you guys out. I was never spiritual and actually detest spiritual wankers. I've been trying to navigate this fucked up world and have learned it's better to stay away and read on my own. Spiritual people are way more douchier than just about most people - except vegans. Spiritual vegans being the absolute top of the douche barrel.

*New Info:*

One day, last November, I walked away from the computer and said to my wife, "I figured it out. I found a few people that know what I know. People that experienced very similar things that they would have absolutely no way of knowing unless it happened to them." (keep in mind that this knowledge is extremely difficult to discuss, because what you experience is difficult to put into words).

She started crying and said right then and there..."I think your path moving forward doesn't include me".

That's where the_ actual _separation process started.

The REAL separation process begins (for some - I bet most), imo, is the time you have your first child. The moment your wife changes from a girlfriend to a mother everything changes. How you handle the change will determine how the rest of your marriage will go. I believe we handled it poorly. I didn't have any experience with kids and wasn't much help. She didn't understand that, as a business owner, I had obligations and other families to support. I needed to pay for the new house and bring the money in to just buy diapers ffs. I did my best and got up in the middle of the night to steam bottles and warm the food, etc. Then went to work. She hasn't worked more than 8 hours a week for over a decade - but still enjoyed all the finer things in life. If we don't fly first class, we wait until I have enough westjet dollars. He NEEDS this $175 hoody made by Drake. 

I also had an issue with the helicopter mothering. My son rarely went to family functions. If any kid was sick, we stayed home. My family has said that they haven't seen my son his whole life as much as they've seen him since the separation.

Ok, I got to prep my new pad for contractors tomorrow. I won't be near a computer, but can respond to you guys via phone.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Life's weird. The mind's weird. People are weird. Too-short posts about life before heading out of the house for work can be weird. Marriage can be even weirder. And having spent an evening with you, I know _you're_ weird. But not too weird to like.  Have yourself a good day, buddy. I'm sure this thread will take some "interesting" turns.


----------



## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Now I just have a bunch of questions and I’m starting to think I’m weird..... hnmmm


----------



## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

My father used to say :
"The whole world is crazy : If you act as the world wants you to, you are crazy.
If not, you are odd... and considered crazy not to follow the herd.
Turn it the way you want, you are crazy !
So, do not bother with other's opinions, make your own way."

Every one not standing in the main stream is odd and weird...
Weird I also am... ;-)


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

What does this have to with divorce?

I confused.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Guncho said:


> What does this have to with divorce?
> 
> I confused.


I'll get there. I just can't do it while I'm working, if I don't get this thing started, I never will


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Adcandour said:


> As mentioned, I will start a new thread, since the Boat thread posters took fair interest in this aspect of the thread.
> 
> TLR - bite me.
> 
> ...


I tend not to judge. I believe there's more to our reality than what we can see and touch. I've no doubt that some people are able to see things differently and sometimes have no control over it. You're not weird, you're special.


----------



## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

Wishing you all the best with this process however I'm confused as to the solution you discovered. I read your post a few times and I'm not clear on what the central issue is. What was "solved" and how? There's some familiar themes in your description of how you felt/feel that your revelation may be of some help to others. I hope you find the strength/desire to reveal it.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Guncho said:


> What does this have to with divorce?
> 
> I confused.


Not much, yet, but he knows if he titled the thread "religion, spirituality, and all that stuff" then he'd be running the chance of it getting deleted or moved, per rule 10.

Forum Rules - Please Read

I could care less personally. The trick will be keeping the discussion respectful, and if it helps Charles to speak about it I'm all for it. The onus is on everyone to keep it respectful and inoffensive.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

"_Wishing you all the best with this process however I'm confused as to the solution you discovered. I read your post a few times and I'm not clear on what the central issue is. What was "solved" and how? There's some familiar themes in your description of how you felt/feel that your revelation may be of some help to others. I hope you find the strength/desire to reveal it._"

I think it's more a question of time. I gather Chuck woke up with some deep thoughts, started to get into them, and then looked at the clock. Patience, patience folks.


----------



## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

I remember this from the other place and I think you still need to work on some things. My wife and I have been through shit and thick and 38 years later you and your wife have to ask yourself's am I ready to train someone new and find a whole bunch of new things that my spouse never did.
Talking about it is a good thing we get so wrapped up in our own worlds that we can't see the light at the end of the tunnel and have no way to figure out how to untangle whats in our minds.
Glad you are sharing again who knows maybe it could help bring the two of you back together again so you can grow old together. Never an easy process but one can only hope for the best for both of you. And a good fight is still a good fight and a loved one is always going to be worth the good fight. Never give up and never give in.
With respect Charles and sending good vibrations your way old friend and may you find the answers you seek.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

mhammer said:


> Life's weird. The mind's weird. People are weird. Too-short posts about life before heading out of the house for work can be weird. Marriage can be even weirder. And having spent an evening with you, I know _you're_ weird. But not too weird to like.  Have yourself a good day, buddy. I'm sure this thread will take some "interesting" turns.



The realtor is uncharacteristically late, so I can reply to a couple of posts.

Yes, we are all weird my friend.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Chitmo said:


> Now I just have a bunch of questions and I’m starting to think I’m weird..... hnmmm


 I know for a fact you are weird. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

1SweetRide said:


> I tend not to judge. I believe there's more to our reality than what we can see and touch. I've no doubt that some people are able to see things differently and sometimes have no control over it. You're not weird, you're special.


Firstly, it's important to note that I'm no more special than you are.

Concerning the "more to reality", this is exactly right. Consequently, I have proven this to a couple of people who are ready for that level of understanding. This is where things get weird (and a little lame for some), so I've really got to pull back.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Does the thing that happened that the Reddit guy solved have a medical name?


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Hamstrung said:


> Wishing you all the best with this process however I'm confused as to the solution you discovered. I read your post a few times and I'm not clear on what the central issue is. What was "solved" and how? There's some familiar themes in your description of how you felt/feel that your revelation may be of some help to others. I hope you find the strength/desire to reveal it.


I did that on purpose. I learned my lesson about 8 months ago. If I tell you what happened to me, and you decide to research it, study it, and then do it ... it could really f****** your life.

It doesn't matter how sound your mind is, lawyers, doctors, physicists, teachers, etc etc have all experienced it.

The lead singer of Tool also went through it, but knowingly and purposefully. He recalls in an interview trying to start a tractor with a carrot, haha


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

davetcan said:


> Not much, yet, but he knows if he titled the thread "religion, spirituality, and all that stuff" then he'd be running the chance of it getting deleted or moved, per rule 10.
> 
> Forum Rules - Please Read
> 
> I could care less personally. The trick will be keeping the discussion respectful, and if it helps Charles to speak about it I'm all for it. The onus is on everyone to keep it respectful and inoffensive.


I will do my best. If you choose to delete it, I'm completely fine with that, since I'm certain it will be done for the right reasons


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm not weird, but the rest of the world sure is. "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke."




davetcan said:


> Not much, yet, but he knows if he titled the thread "religion, spirituality, and all that stuff" then he'd be running the chance of it getting deleted or moved, per rule 10.
> 
> Forum Rules - Please Read
> 
> I could care less personally. The trick will be keeping the discussion respectful, and if it helps Charles to speak about it I'm all for it. The onus is on everyone to keep it respectful and inoffensive.


I believe it's actually a two way street. Sure, people have to be respectful, but opposing ideas are going to clash. It is also the responsibility of sentient, thinking human beings to have open minds and not be offended by every minute, slight difference in opinion. For the most part, society has lost that. The littlest conflict leaves some people running for their safe space instead of standing up a bit and representing/defending their beliefs.

It's a big mean world out there. Get over it ------ and get over yourself.










I'm interested in what Chuck's got to say. I'm interested in where this is going to go. But I've never shirked from opposing views or discussing things that maybe conflict with general beliefs. I also wonder how this will coincide with my beliefs in quantum mechanics and how we perceive the world may or may not have much to do with WTF is really going on. Vive le difference.

And remember: "Minds are like parachutes. They don't work worth a shit when they're not open."


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Double bubble.

Apparently someone threw a wrench in my quantum mechanics!


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Ship of fools said:


> I remember this from the other place and I think you still need to work on some things. My wife and I have been through shit and thick and 38 years later you and your wife have to ask yourself's am I ready to train someone new and find a whole bunch of new things that my spouse never did.
> Talking about it is a good thing we get so wrapped up in our own worlds that we can't see the light at the end of the tunnel and have no way to figure out how to untangle whats in our minds.
> Glad you are sharing again who knows maybe it could help bring the two of you back together again so you can grow old together. Never an easy process but one can only hope for the best for both of you. And a good fight is still a good fight and a loved one is always going to be worth the good fight. Never give up and never give in.
> With respect Charles and sending good vibrations your way old friend and may you find the answers you seek.


Thanks, ship. Your input is always appreciated

Please understand that I've never been in a better place in my entire life.

That said, I've spoken to my wife about certain things that we both need to improve on if we are to work. She is simply not there. It is certainly not off the table.

Some women try to harness men, and keep them from being free. I've always been unique, and I never felt I could be myself without embarrassing her. Some men do the same, obviously. I don't want to be controlled, until I'm certain I won't be, that is a path I have to walk away from


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm pretty sure you know i agree with you 

Discussing differing ideas/viewpoints can be, and should be, a helpful experience. HOW those ideas are discussed however will decide the fate of this thread. Keep an open mind and be respectful. Just remember every one of these is different, as are we all.

And no, I'm not calling anyone a snowflake! Yet.












High/Deaf said:


> I believe it's actually a two way street. Sure, people have to be respectful, but opposing ideas are going to clash. It is also the responsibility of sentient, thinking human beings to have open minds and not be offended by every minute, slight difference in opinion. For the most part, society has lost that. The littlest conflict leaves some people running for their safe space instead of standing up a bit and representing/defending their beliefs.
> 
> It's a big mean world out there. Get over it ------ and get over yourself.
> 
> ...


----------



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Adcandour said:


> Firstly, it's important to note that I'm no more special than you are.
> 
> Concerning the "more to reality", this is exactly right. Consequently, I have proven this to a couple of people who are ready for that level of understanding. This is where things get weird (and a little lame for some), so I've really got to pull back.


I was once driving at dusk in a very remote area. Doing about 80-90 KPH. Was about to crest a hill when I had this strong feeling to slam on the brakes. Like really strong. It wasn't a thought, it was more like a command. So, I slammed on the brakes. came to a screeching halt just over the crest only to have my headlights reveal two bodies lying perpendicular across my path. I would have ran them over otherwise.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

similar ... but it turned out to be a motorcycle pulling a wheelie , coming the other way over the hill ...

what can I say ... Quebec drivers .


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

mhammer said:


> Life's weird. The mind's weird. People are weird. Too-short posts about life before heading out of the house for work can be weird. Marriage can be even weirder. And having spent an evening with you, I know _you're_ weird. But not too weird to like.  Have yourself a good day, buddy. I'm sure this thread will take some "interesting" turns.


Only mhammer can call Adcandour's original post "short".


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

High/Deaf said:


> I'm not weird, but the rest of the world sure is. "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke."
> 
> View attachment 284070


I have no idea what the context on this is, I see no previous posts by you in this thread, and there's references to another that I have not read, so I'm not attacking or criticising, but I did want to express an alternative point of view on this issue (sorry to take this tangent @Adcandour ).

Sure, on it's own without a specific example that seems fine, but sometimes a joke is not just a joke. This is often the case exactly when the jester is using the "just a joke" "defense." Consider: maybe the jokes were horrible and shitty the whole time but few people had the balls to say anything back (e.g. to a person in a position of more power/authority, or to a person retelling the joke of such a person) until recently. A good example is my Dad - he knows his jokes bother people, he even understands why, but he thinks it's his right; this is an egotistcal and false premise.

Sometimes a Joke Is Not Just a Joke

Jokes are one of the mechanisms for the normalization of bad behaviour - violence, prejudice etc, and can be incredibly othering, especially when they keep getting repeated (not always by the same individuals, but with the same people as the audience - just because it may be a cumulative effect, does not absolve a given individual from contributing to it along the way). A joke is not just a joke as well when someone deliberately makes light of an issue that is personal and taking advantage of a vulnerability such as when someone opens up to discus something like this here in this thread (again, I do not know that is what happened here and I am not making a specific criticism about a specific joke, just dealing with the issue in a general sense and using the context of this thread as a hypothetical example).

It's not about conflicting beliefs, or differing opinions. A person's right to their opinion (which is a thing) is not carte blanche to act upon it (acts including speaking about it). It's about a person being responsible for what they say, being mindful of what that is communicating to others. It's about acknowledging that words can have power, especially in repetition, so the need to be accepted and seen as funny or even to just express one's self (and laugh at your own joke), does not trump someone else's rights to not be exposed to , for example, hatred, or to having their honest outreach used against them. Jokes like this are often a way to raise ones self up, or get in with a group at the cost of someone else, which is the point most ignored by 'just a joke' people.

That said, sure, some people are too sensitive about everything and seemingly live for that feeling of indignation they get to parade about when they encounter something "offensive," but this does not mean one can throw the baby out with the bathwater re being responsible for what one says. Sometimes maybe it's not about someone being a baby snowflake or not agreeing with you (the proverbial you, not you you); sometimes they are not butthurt about a difference of opinion. Sometimes maybe you (again proverbial - just assume so the rest of the way down) are just not being aware of the implications of said joke. Especially in the post modern age where (and we all learned this in high school dating the 'weird girl' right) sarcasm can be feint, a mask for saying something true/you actually believe without consequence (whether conscious or not), and even though you are' joking,' it may not be completely clear, and appear to others to betray the way you really feel about something.

I do agree however that there is a lot less patience lately for talking to people who do differ in opinion to your own. This , however , I find to be a separate issue, and it seems to me that including it here is a non sequitor way of dismissing people who criticize a given joke. This polarization is not news - lot of talk about it in the media, and even Noam Chomsky touches on this in just about every talk he's given in the last 5 years even if that talk is not actually about that, or politics, at all. I find that this rhetoric (more the way the mass media handles the issue vs Noam - I have other issues with that) is actually exacerbating the problem. There ARE plenty of people (I'd like to consider myself one) who actually do try to talk to people of differing or various, opinions (like I have not stopped talking to my dad and youngest brother yet as some people have done - it's amazing to me how easily they give up on family members), exactly for the purpose of trying to build bridges and understand another side. The way people talk about it actually makes the problem worse - I hear people say while quoting such articles etc: ' see how difficult the other side is, F em, I ain't moving either.' It is a self fulfilling prophecy and a key ingredient in the societal control mechanism - division, especially as both sides radicalize themselves, is the best way to ensure that we all remain occupied with arguing (or more accurately, preaching insult to the other side to our respective choirs) instead of tackling the real issues that we could all agree on. It spirals further out of control when we come to identify with, for example, one side of the political spectrum, because now we are invested and the process of having to defend some of the things our side has said, lead to acceptance of those things - progressive radicalisation and pushing at the exteremes, increasing the divide.

People were always offended, they just felt alone and powerless to do anything about it until more recently. It doesn't mean it was ever right or OK, so much as de facto accepted by the ruling majority. The only difference is that now, more so than before, if you say something stupid or horrible, you might actually get your ass called out on it, and to put it as frankly as the pictured cross-stich (whith it's 'get a helmet' attitude): if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Or to use another idiom/analogy: people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones... and not realising that what you're throwing is actually a stone (vs , say, a nerf ball) does not excuse a person from the consequences of beaning someone else with a rock - it is each and everyone of us' responsibility to look at what we are holding in our hand before we throw it (though sometimes I find myself in disbelief that the jester did not realise they put a rock into the middle of their snowball - like when that happened in the school yard and the person said it was an accident how often did we actually buy that?). Further, it is also a good place to apply the principle of common/tort law which states that, if you (for example) touch someone, and they have a previous condition or injury that you are unaware of, and so they are more severely hurt (or even killed) by this touch, whereas a normal person without said condition would not be, you are just as (legally) responsible for that as if you did know and did it anyway - they (or their kin) can sue you and the remedy/damages will reflect the actual harm caused and not the expected harm given the action taken; not being aware of the condition is not a legally acceptable defense at all.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Perhaps you could copy and paste the above and move it to the politics section, before i delete it  I'd like to keep this thread open and that's going to mean focusing on the issue, (whatever that is, I'm just sure it's not the above). If you and High/Deaf want to start a thread on the above over in Politics knock yourselves out.

Conversely I could start a thread over there and copy and paste both of your threads to it. Your call. Then I would just also delete my response to High/Deaf posted earlier.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

There is no actual political view expressed therein; it's about personal responsibility. But fine. If you do del or move - can I have access to the political forum?


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

how's that go again ... do no harm?

a frank discussion ( a true discussion ) should hurt no one. (intent or otherwise).

it may not jive with your beliefs or mind set, but it still may be valid to the person you are discussing it with .
because we live in a free society where we are allowed to have our own thoughts on things , everyone can hold different views ( or see things differently) 

so until I see/ hear the background I'll try not to make assumptions or form any views ... life's too short and too full of unexpected turns.

now ... onwards !


----------



## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Rocks in the snowball.
And a thin skull too.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm too thick to even understand what the root cause / incident really was but I do see Chuck trying to connect spirituality with mental health problems.

I'm guessing many people who think they have had "spiritual" experiences have also actually suffered from mental health problems.

It's not magic. It's a health problem.

Having problems with mental health is surprisingly common.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Guitar101 said:


> Only mhammer can call Adcandour's original post "short".


Touché! 
"Too-short"in the sense that, despite its length, Chuck knew he hadn't gotten around to all of what he wanted or needed to say.


----------



## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Spiritual lessons are always hard to interpret and personal situations are just as difficult to get around. For me the fight to keep something that I promised is just as important as the journey that it took to get there. And as in everything in life its always hard to interpret ones words on a computer screen but we all strive to help our fellow friends or sometimes even those we don't always care for. 
All I care about is helping if I can no matter who or what and hearing someone else's story I hope helps me in the long run by comparing notes and realizing sometimes that I to am not a perfect soul but sometimes we have to stand up for those that can't and help them get over that lump that holds them back from achieving their goals.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Milkman said:


> I'm too thick to even understand what the root cause / incident really was but I do see Chuck trying to connect spirituality with mental health problems.
> 
> I'm guessing many people who think they have had "spiritual" experiences have also actually suffered from mental health problems.
> 
> It's not magic. It's a health problem.


OR is it that spiritual experiences are written off as a mental health issues by skeptics? It comes down to what you (want to) believe, but to be fair, the argument is a tad stacked in this latter point of view's favour considering some of the things that used to be called mental or health disorders, but no longer are, or are now better understood to be something else entirely (e.g. sexual orientation, female hysteria etc). @Adcandour himself raised an interesting point about how his experience nearly got him committed, but in another culture with other norms (is it fair for psychology to apply western norms to all people, especially now that western society is sufficiently cosmopolitan?) would have treated it much differently - with guided meditation. 

I do not mean to make a generalised statement on the matter (spritual experience is or is not a mental health issue) - I personally think that these things have to be taken on a case by case basis, and even then, I could be wrong.

And I realise that I cited the psychological establishment above, and am criticizing it here; nothing is beyond reproach and just because something is not perfect does not mean it is devoid of all value.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

player99 said:


> Does the thing that happened that the Reddit guy solved have a medical name?


No, it doesn't. Although Carl Jung and a few other doctors discuss it at length.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Granny Gremlin said:


> OR is it that spiritual experiences are written off as a mental health issues by skeptics? It comes down to what you (want to) believe,


Yes, it comes down to whether you want to believe in science or magic.

I don't have the answers and I don't claim to have them, whether as the revealed word of a deity or through science.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

High/Deaf said:


> I'm not weird, but the rest of the world sure is. "Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Quantum mechanics is an interesting thing. I tend to steer clear, since a lot of 'spiritual people' tend to rely heavily on the concepts, because they believe that scientific merit will sway someone who isn't spiritual. If you don't know the math behind it, I won't listen. There are obviously other reasons, but I don't mention QM ever. Primarily because I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, although there is an underlying wish in most people that spirituality/afterlife and such is real. I wrote an essay a long time ago about it. We are all looking for some crutch to get us through life. People go about things the wrong way, for the most part. Still, the interest in the infinite, the math behind it, as well as the life of the major scholars working with it is pivotal in growth, imo. I prefer Einstein's attempt at unified field theory that was later completed by Lisa Meitner's grandson. It's a bit out there, but is definitely worth getting in to.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Adcandour said:


> My hopes are that I can help one person. 'Help' isn't exactly what I mean (@greco), maybe "shed some light', or promote introspection resulting in a strengthened relationship for someone out there that may need to hear this.


Very interesting thread. I have just returned from being out since late morning and have not read the posts that were written after ~11:00 a.m..

However, I am very curious as to why I received "special mention" in the first post (see above quote)?

Do I need help?


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Milkman said:


> I'm too thick to even understand what the root cause / incident really was but I do see Chuck trying to connect spirituality with mental health problems.
> 
> I'm guessing many people who think they have had "spiritual" experiences have also actually suffered from mental health problems.
> 
> ...


I understand your perspective on this, and have questioned myself many-a-time. I have been to shrinks then and now - I am considered sane, my friend. I ask to be interrogated in a fashion that'll determine whether I'm nuts. I answer questions honestly, and I'm all good. There are things doctors look for - I don't know them, so I can't trick them. The only thing that I worry about is that I am extremely convincing. My sales record is well above normal. I'm not sure if it was the Harvard Business shit my dad forced me to do, or the neuro-linguistic programming I studied for the sole purpose of making sales (which didn't really work the way I thought it would. In an effort to understand people at a certain level, I was inadvertently empathizing and awarded contracts due to it). Hell, I did a no-no today with a client and she has invited her and a friend over to my place...(it's a sickness, really)

Please keep in mind that I've been to legit doctors - this isn't something I leave to guitar forum gurus, 

I also had to go to an eye doctor over this as well.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Milkman said:


> Having problems with mental health is surprisingly common.


There is actually a doctor who discusses this during an interview. He's dead now. He studied the physiological impact of these certain events and has it all documented. He spent a lot of time trying to help doctors wrongfully assess patients.

If you like, since I have no fear of you delving into anything spiritual, I can send you a link to the interview as long as you promise not to share it.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Adcandour said:


> I understand your perspective on this, and have questioned myself many-a-time. I have been to shrinks then and now - I am considered sane, my friend. I ask to be interrogated in a fashion that'll determine whether I'm nuts. I answer questions honestly, and I'm all good. There are things doctors look for - I don't know them, so I can't trick them. The only thing that I worry about is that I am extremely convincing. My sales record is well above normal. I'm not sure if it was the Harvard Business shit my dad forced me to do, or the neuro-linguistic programming I studied for the sole purpose of making sales (which didn't really work the way I thought it would. In an effort to understand people at a certain level, I was inadvertently empathizing and awarded contracts due to it). Hell, I did a no-no today with a client and she has invited her and a friend over to my place...(it's a sickness, really)
> 
> Please keep in mind that I've been to legit doctors - this isn't something I leave to guitar forum gurus,
> 
> I also had to go to an eye doctor over this as well.


I don't meant to infer or imply that you're (insert whatever shitty term you prefer).

I'm quite sure an in depth analysis of yours truly would reveal several undiagnosed mental health issues.

But, that doesn't mean I attribute my stuff to spirits or spirituality.

I know I'm a defective machine.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Milkman said:


> Yes, it comes down to whether you want to believe in science or magic.
> 
> I don't have the answers and I don't claim to have them, whether as the revealed word of a deity or through science.


But what if most of the scientists we base our reality on believe in this magic? Shit, you can barely do physics without including limits as they approach infinity.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

greco said:


> Very interesting thread. I have just returned from being out since late morning and have not read the posts that were written after ~11:00 a.m..
> 
> However, I am very curious as to why I received "special mention" in the first post (see above quote)?
> 
> Do I need help?


Well your fixation with semi-acoustic guitars does reveal.....something....


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Milkman said:


> I don't meant to infer or imply that you're (insert whatever shitty term you prefer).
> 
> I'm quite sure an in depth analysis of yours truly would reveal several undiagnosed mental health issues.
> 
> ...


It's completely possible that I'm a functioning crazy person.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

greco said:


> Very interesting thread. I have just returned from being out since late morning and have not read the posts that were written after ~11:00 a.m..
> 
> However, I am very curious as to why I received "special mention" in the first post (see above quote)?
> 
> Do I need help?


No. I was highlighting my inability to be succinct in that instance. I guess I was unclear.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Adcandour said:


> But what if most of the scientists we base our reality on believe in this magic? Shit, you can barely do physics without including limits as they approach infinity.


The "scientists" are always willing to accept evidence that their theories are incorrect as opposed to always standing firm on the revealed word of ...anyone or anything.

Pretty major difference IMO.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Adcandour said:


> No. I was highlighting my inability to be succinct in that instance. I guess I was unclear.


OK


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Adcandour said:


> It's completely possible that I'm a functioning crazy person.


I'm almost certain I am and I suspect many others are as well.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Milkman said:


> Yes, it comes down to whether you want to believe in science or magic.
> 
> I don't have the answers and I don't claim to have them, whether as the revealed word of a deity or through science.


That is unfairly reductionist. Science has limits (spiritual experience being one of them; beyond it's scope); and just because you can't prove something, doesn't mean it is not so (see the comet that killed the dinosaurs; for decades that was not accepted because they couldn't find the crater). See also Fanatic belief in scince is only marginally better than fanatic beleif in magic - donl;tt pretend science has got all the answers to everything because it doesn't and almost all scientists admit that. Also also, you can't prove something isn't, only that something is once you have the ability to find the evidence (e.g. we could not prove atoms and particles thereof until the electron microscope was invented).


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Adcandour said:


> It's completely possible that we are all functioning crazy people.


fixored that fer ya


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Milkman said:


> The "scientists" are always willing to accept evidence that their theories are incorrect as opposed to always standing firm on the revealed word of ...anyone or anything.
> 
> Pretty major difference IMO.


Certainly, but you have to admit that your knowledge concerning what you consider malarky is very limited. You are generalizing that certain groups 'stand firm' which isn't always the case. I have studied science and I have studied religions. I have done my best to keep an open mind, and have strong negative opinions towards certain spiritual/religious views. Science is fantastic. I love it. But, I believe it's better to be very well rounded in these studies to form a solid opinion. I don't really want to continue down this path, because the answer at the end is ALWAYS 'faith'. Well, in most cases.

I'm going to bactrack to the front and try to dig into the separation stuff before I have to leave.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Granny Gremlin said:


> That is unfairly reductionist. Science has limits (spiritual experience being one of them; beyond it's scope); and just because you can't prove something, doesn't mean it is not so (see the comet that killed the dinosaurs; for decades that was not accepted because they couldn't find the crater). See also Fanatic belief in scince is only marginally better than fanatic beleif in magic - donl;tt pretend science has got all the answers to everything because it doesn't and almost all scientists admit that. Also also, you can't prove something isn't, only that something is once you have the ability to find the evidence (e.g. we could not prove atoms and particles thereof until the electron microscope was invented).


Verbosity doesn't equate with validity or credibility.

I think you have to choose reason or faith to a large extent.

Things are not always black and white, but I'm much more confident in those who maintain that the world is much, much older than 4000~6000 years old and who are always willing to listen to and honestly assess the opinions of those who do believe in magic.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Was this a "naturally" occurring phenomenon or were some forms of hallucinogenics involved? I don't believe I've ever witnessed the former, but I've seen a couple of the latter, keep in mind the era I grew up in was very experimental. And I'm not being remotely judgmental, just curious. You're considerably younger than I am and I'm not sure what, if anything, kids were into in your era.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Granny Gremlin said:


> That is unfairly reductionist. Science has limits (spiritual experience being one of them; beyond it's scope); and just because you can't prove something, doesn't mean it is not so (see the comet that killed the dinosaurs; for decades that was not accepted because they couldn't find the crater). See also Fanatic belief in scince is only marginally better than fanatic beleif in magic - donl;tt pretend science has got all the answers to everything because it doesn't and almost all scientists admit that. Also also, you can't prove something isn't, only that something is once you have the ability to find the evidence (e.g. we could not prove atoms and particles thereof until the electron microscope was invented).


I appreciate your stance. I appreciate both stances. We need them. But, it is best to leave it alone. Can you guys agree to leave it for now? @Milkman


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

This would be good!



Adcandour said:


> I'm going to bactrack to the front and try to dig into the separation stuff before I have to leave.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

never start a discussion on : politics, religion, or science.

3 constants in life : death , taxes and politicians .

what was considered "crazy " 30 years ago , is now considered "normal"

now let's get back on track


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

davetcan said:


> Was this a "naturally" occurring phenomenon or were some forms of hallucinogenics involved? I don't believe I've ever witnessed the former, but I've seen a couple of the latter, keep in mind the era I grew up in was very experimental. And I'm not being remotely judgmental, just curious. You're considerably younger than I am and I'm not sure what, if anything, kids were into in your era.


It can happen under any circumstance. Drugs, sleeping, meditation, Yoga, driving, humping, falling, etc, etc. I have read a lot of doctor's case studies, so I know this list is virtually endless.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

davetcan said:


> This would be good!


I'm trying me best. It's also important (to me) that I respond to everyone. I think we've all been good so far, surprisingly, haha.

Thanks everyone for being cool about this.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Adcandour said:


> It can happen under any circumstance. Drugs, sleeping, meditation, Yoga, driving, humping, falling, etc, etc. I have read a lot of doctor's case studies, so I know this list is virtually endless.


Interesting.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

{removed}



Adcandour said:


> I appreciate your stance. I appreciate both stances. We need them. But, it is best to leave it alone. Can you guys agree to leave it for now? @Milkman


Sure.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Neither are logical falasies - that's an ad hominem
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LMAO,

Easy big fella, it’s you making all the assumptions, and clearly you choose to ignore the OP’s request.


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

"things are not always black or white"

sorta like old age ... more and more grey areas each day.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Adcandour said:


> I appreciate your stance. I appreciate both stances. We need them. But, it is best to leave it alone. Can you guys agree to leave it for now? @Milkman


You are hilarious. Like not being able to imagine that all that took me a while to write, so he posted that during me doing so, so I didn't see it til after (since updated/removed).

But you; you DID see it and kept going. Also you escalate this to a personal attack. Give me an example of an assumption I have made? Make an actual case instead of attacking people or what you assume to be their beliefs.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

oldjoat said:


> "things are not always black or white"
> 
> sorta like old age ... more and more grey areas each day.


You need Jesus.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Uh oh.

@Granny Gremlin @Milkman 

Go check out that new shit I just wrote about my ex marriage. It's the best.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Sorry. I'm done now, promise.


----------



## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

ok, i read this thread 2x and i'm not confident i understand what it is about. it makes me wonder if it is something like i used to experience when i was a kid. 
i used to hallucinate, have insane headaches, sometimes go blind for hours, and go into this "other state" which i'm not sure i could explain clearly. i saw shrinks, and docs, no one had any explanations for what was happening. once i hit about 18 it almost completely stopped. the last time it happened i was about 20 or so. hasn't happened since. i remember a few times after that it started to happen, but it seems like i was able to "will it away" the thing with maynard trying to start a tractor with a carrot and the yoga thing made me think it's similar to what you are talking about. have i totally misunderstood? it seems like everyone understands this except me


----------



## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Adcandour said:


> You need Jesus.


devout reformed druid


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Adcandour said:


> Go check out that new shit I just wrote about my ex marriage. It's the best.





Adcandour said:


> New Info:


Typing that as an edit in your OP may confuse a few that start reading now because of comments between then and now.
Maybe bring that portion to the 'now' of this thread?
Then again, reading this in a 'Pulp Fiction' manner is interesting too.


----------



## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

Thought it would be a good time to interject-in relation to the title-divorce. 

Theres been a recent study that’s found 95% of divorces happen because woman don’t realize they’re wrong.


----------



## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Adcandour said:


> I prefer Einstein's attempt at unified field theory that was later completed by Lisa Meitner's grandson. It's a bit out there, but is definitely worth getting in to.


I was curious about that, Lise Meitner never married or had kids, so I'm wondering who this grandson could be, and secondly, how it is he completed a unified field theory where none exists today considering General Relativity does not apply in quantum field theory. Have you got a link to this?


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

cheezyridr said:


> ok, i read this thread 2x and i'm not confident i understand what it is about. it makes me wonder if it is something like i used to experience when i was a kid.
> i used to hallucinate, have insane headaches, sometimes go blind for hours, and go into this "other state" which i'm not sure i could explain clearly. i saw shrinks, and docs, no one had any explanations for what was happening. once i hit about 18 it almost completely stopped. the last time it happened i was about 20 or so. hasn't happened since. i remember a few times after that it started to happen, but it seems like i was able to "will it away" the thing with maynard trying to start a tractor with a carrot and the yoga thing made me think it's similar to what you are talking about. have i totally misunderstood? it seems like everyone understands this except me


Damn, dude. Yeah. That's very close, but in case studies the intensity and incoherent babble lasts 3 months. Getting over it without proper help takes between 20 to 25 years. It's essentially a purification process. 

If you're interested, pm me, and I can send you to the proper reddit sub where you can bounce a few things off of others and get to the bottom of it all. there is a wiki you can use to compare symptoms. For me, I was messaged directly by a girl who, during our conversation, mentioned a crushing force that contorted her body. The more you fight it, the worse it is. Me (and my friend), not know wtf was happening, tried my best to fight it. There is much more to it.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

*New Info:*

One day, last November, I walked away from the computer and said to my wife, "I figured it out. I found a few people that know what I know. People that experienced very similar things that they would have absolutely no way of knowing unless it happened to them." (keep in mind that this knowledge is extremely difficult to discuss, because what you experience is difficult to put into words).

She started crying and said right then and there..."I think your path moving forward doesn't include me".

That's where the_ actual _separation process started.

The REAL separation process begins (for some - I bet most), imo, is the time you have your first child. The moment your wife changes from a girlfriend to a mother everything changes. How you handle the change will determine how the rest of your marriage will go. I believe we handled it poorly. I didn't have any experience with kids and wasn't much help. She didn't understand that, as a business owner, I had obligations and other families to support. I needed to pay for the new house and bring the money in to just buy diapers ffs. I did my best and got up in the middle of the night to steam bottles and warm the food, etc. Then went to work. She hasn't worked more than 8 hours a week for over a decade - but still enjoyed all the finer things in life. If we don't fly first class, we wait until I have enough westjet dollars. He NEEDS this $175 hoody made by Drake.

I also had an issue with the helicopter mothering. My son rarely went to family functions. If any kid was sick, we stayed home. My family has said that they haven't seen my son his whole life as much as they've seen him since the separation.

Ok, I got to prep my new pad for contractors tomorrow. I won't be near a computer, but can respond to you guys via phone.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I think you have to choose reason or faith to a large extent.


I had a physics prof who was also quite religious. When I was young and believed that science had all the answers I questioned him on how he reconciles his stance. His reply was to the effect that further you go out into space the closer faith and science become to each other.

To this day that conversation governs my own perception.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

jimsz said:


> I was curious about that, Lise Meitner never married or had kids, so I'm wondering who this grandson could be, and secondly, how it is he completed a unified field theory where none exists today considering General Relativity does not apply in quantum field theory. Have you got a link to this?


Sorry:

Lise Meitner was his (Fredrick Honig's) Grandmother's cousin.

Like I said, it's a bit out there, but it parallels some other esoteric knowledge that I agree with. It's a fun read, but I don't really care for this kind of stuff. I put it on the shelf with quantum mechanics (but prefer it to listening to spiritualists go on about QM).

Here's a link to the page in his book: https://photos.app.goo.gl/WN2SM1Z932fPQwq58

I took that screen shot from my phone. I don't think I own a hard copy.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

allthumbs56 said:


> I had a physics prof who was also quite religious. When I was young and believed that science had all the answers I questioned him on how he reconciles his stance. His reply was to the effect that further you go out into space the closer faith and science become to each other.
> 
> To this day that conversation governs my own perception.


It's true in both directions. the microcosm is the macrocosm. The galaxy is a fibonacci sequence pattern and you can find this 'golden ratio' in the smallest of things too - like the structure of our DNA.


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Adcandour said:


> It's true in both directions. the microcosm is the macrocosm. The galaxy is a fibonacci sequence pattern and you can find this 'golden ratio' in the smallest of things too - like the structure of our DNA.


Speaking of DNA. If I bought one of Stevie Ray Vaughan's guitars. Could I use the DNA to make my own Stevie Ray that could give me guitar lessons?


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Adcandour said:


> It's true in both directions. the microcosm is the macrocosm. The galaxy is a fibonacci sequence pattern and you can find this 'golden ratio' in the smallest of things too - like the structure of our DNA.


Yup - miracle or accident? I'm not qualified to say - and I'm not a fan of those who insist they know.


----------



## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

Adcandour said:


> Sorry:
> 
> Lise Meitner was his (Fredrick Honig's) Grandmother's cousin.


I haven't read Honig's book but I found this excerpt from a review. I suspect either Honig doesn't know what he's talking about or he's on some seriously mind altering drugs. Einsteins theory says nothing of cause and effect, it is one of equivalency between mass and spacetime, nor does it say anything about seeds of the universe as these phenomena came about after and as a result of the BB. 

_"He sheds light on how the universe began and illuminates the twelve principle mysteries that are presently unanswered in the standard model of physics. He explains a deeper understanding of Einstein's Theory of Relativity and how this equation when applied to the universe's dimension of consciousness becomes the Unitive Field Law of Causation. This one equation explains the cause and effect of any action as well as how the primal singularity, the seed of the universe, came into existence before the Big Bang."_


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Guitar101 said:


> Speaking of DNA. If I bought one of Stevie Ray Vaughan's guitars. Could I use the DNA to make my own Stevie Ray that could give me guitar lessons?


I'm not an expert in the field, but I think so.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

allthumbs56 said:


> Yup - miracle or accident? I'm not qualified to say - and I'm not a fan of those who insist they know.


You don't have to be qualified to say. It's simple math. Literally break out a ruler if you want.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

jimsz said:


> I haven't read Honig's book but I found this excerpt from a review. I suspect either Honig doesn't know what he's talking about or he's on some seriously mind altering drugs. Einsteins theory says nothing of cause and effect, it is one of equivalency between mass and spacetime, nor does it say anything about seeds of the universe as these phenomena came about after and as a result of the BB.
> 
> _"He sheds light on how the universe began and illuminates the twelve principle mysteries that are presently unanswered in the standard model of physics. He explains a deeper understanding of Einstein's Theory of Relativity and how this equation when applied to the universe's dimension of consciousness becomes the Unitive Field Law of Causation. This one equation explains the cause and effect of any action as well as how the primal singularity, the seed of the universe, came into existence before the Big Bang."_


You have to read the book to be fair. But, I like it for different reasons. I like the fact that you see a double tetrahedron at the head of a Jewish altar. I just think it's cool how things connect that way. I like his idea about how the vertices in this shape contain the particles found when they smashed atoms together in France.

I don't really want to get serious over something I don't take too seriously. The only reason I brought it up is to say that it's more interesting then all the weird quantum physics and mechanics stuff that people use to explain our reality doesn't really exist, blah blah blah. I don't care or know enough about it to have a strong enough opinion.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

It's funny how I started a thread about boats, and got more comments about my ex. So, I start a thread about the divorce, and there's no questions about my ex. If I were to start a thread in the political forum about spirituality, do you think we'd start talking about boats again, or maybe arks? Hmmm, maybe I should build an ark...

Anyway, I've got a few pms concerning the spiritual portion. The people who were meant to hear what I was trying to present, heard. I don't feel a need to continue.

I did want to talk about what happens to a woman after a child is born though. If you look at women and men strictly as animals, you see the following pattern:


The woman selects her mate. One she feels has an attractive enough plume, if you will.
Friends and family start to push you toward propagation of the species. Am I right, or am I right? How many men have sighed as a result of this harmless interrogation?
The woman does her dance for however many years it takes to get that symbol around her finger. The ring is tight. The man wears it, so other women know to back off. Because he has to. Does he want to? Some do. No doubt. The woman wears it like a victory. See my ring? It's so big and pretty, isn't it? Did I do good? Yeah, I did good.
When are you guys having your baby? Can you have a baby? What's wrong with you? You're trying? You're pregnant? Awesome. Just wait til those big eyes pop out of that vagina and scare the father and enslave the mother.
Now they've got you. Now they come out of their shell.
Woman age like bread and men age like a fine wine (-Patrice O' Neal). They use children to hang on.
I sense society's shaming when I say that I've separated. Do you have children? Oh.
Society can fuck itself.
As with anything, there are exceptions. But look at your neighbours. Look at the faces of the population as they walk by you in the mall, on the street, or before they run into their house to avoid talking to you.

I don't have a single friend who's happy in their marriage. I just had a client tell me she wanted to leave her husband. I am in many many homes and can taste the resentment between couples duped into starting a young family.

It's the old people who have no children at home who are the happiest, imo. They are either happy being in separate sides of the home doing their own shit, or they truly enjoy each other's company - which to me is a beautiful thing.

The other group of people that are happy are the ones who have broken the cycle and separated. They broke the facade and the build up of shit and found someone else who's done the same. It's a different kind of victory, but they also create a beautiful thing.

Finally, ime, there's a special marriage where the woman has won completely. She has broken her man. My two sister-in-laws managed to choose the perfect men who would do their bidding. It's actually amazing. I believe that's one of the reason's I'm separated. I wouldn't be broken. I wasn't like the other two. They weren't allowed out to play. I was, but it came with a price.

Now, things that are important to note:


Ultimately, it doesn't matter, and I don't give a fuck. You do what you do, and I do what I do. If you come to me with your complaints, I will help you until the end of the world as best as I can.
I realize that I'm missing the woman's perspective. Last time I checked, I still had a dick, so I can't provide the opposite perspective when I know it's just as important.
I also realize that men can also be manipulative dicks. But, it's interesting to note that these dicks don't play by the above rules/bullets. They have an issue with the evolutionary forces pushed on them, I'm guessing.
I'm no sociologist. I studied it at length in College and took it upon myself to read many books outside the curriculum, but what does that mean? No one has given me a buck for my opinion yet. Feel free to e-transfer me a dollar, so I can say I'm a professional.
The experience of a family with an only child is different. The momma bear syndrome is next level and is a discussion on its own
Men being put on the back burner after a baby is born is also something that is real. I looked it up when I was struggling with how to move forward.
I realize that I'm missing so much information, but time is limited and I want others to present it, so we can all learn. I just want to get something rolling and hear from others concerning their experience.

If the above doesn't interest anyone, and no one wants to discuss things further, I'm not bothered. Here, I have formed a strong opinion. Not only have I been in thousands of homes for longer than average time, but I am extremely in tune to people due to study and practice.

I have to get ready for work again.


----------



## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

Nailed it.


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Johnny Spune said:


> Nailed it.


Not really. Where does it say "I got the girlfriend pregnant and had to marry her"? Totally different scenario if that happens. But that's another story.


----------



## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

Adcandour said:


> But look at your neighbours. Look at the faces of the population as they walk by you in the mall, on the street, or before they run into their house to avoid talking to you.
> 
> I don't have a single friend who's happy in their marriage. I just had a client tell me she wanted to leave her husband. I am in many many homes and can taste the resentment between couples duped into starting a young family.
> 
> ...


I see the word "happy" a lot in the words above, which I think gives away the assumption that the ultimate pursuit in life is happiness. But what if it isn't?


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Adcandour said:


> It's funny how I started a thread about boats, and got more comments about my ex. So, I start a thread about the divorce, and there's no questions about my ex. If I were to start a thread in the political forum about spirituality, do you think we'd start talking about boats again, or maybe arks? Hmmm, maybe I should build an ark...
> 
> Anyway, I've got a few pms concerning the spiritual portion. The people who were meant to hear what I was trying to present, heard. I don't feel a need to continue.
> 
> ...



I would agree with much of what you have said however the perspective can be changed/viewed by several factors. Age is clearly one huge factor. Having even a basic understanding of how the other sex men/women view the world and the opposite sex is another. Much of that is programmed from the day you are born. Anyone over the age of 30 should get what I am saying, there will be those that don't and that is part of the problem in many marriages. The creation and use of Facebook has proven these theories in living color. We are at the core sexual beings. The pecking orders are sorted at a young age based on physical appearance. Men strive to reach as high as they can on that pecking order. Women compete to be on it and the higher up they are the easier life will be (for a limited time). It's the same as when you were in the shower rooms and were taking a peek at the size of everyone else's cock to see where you rated. I was just as dumb and naive as anyone else when I got married the first time. Knew nothing about how women thought and never considered acting any different. We had our first child when I was 24 and then another when I was 27. The trouble in our marriage started when my wife wanted a third and I said no. Years later I realized that I had never seen her happier then the two times she was pregnant. The attention, the "status" if you were. She ended up leaving me. I could not even think about being without her, I was old school and we had kids so that was my life. Today, I could kiss her ass for having the courage to actually leave and pursue what she wanted. I was 29 when she left. I was devastated. I wandered around in a haze for the next 2 years. In the meantime she had just dropped her 3rd with the dude she was fucking behind my back. It hit me then. She has nothing in her life, nothing. No ambitions, no dreams, no goals. She was also a terrible Mother. Once the kids were born and people went back to their lives the thrill was gone. The odd time we crossed paths over the years, with our kids for school or marriages or whatever and I would talk to her it was like she was still 17 when I first met her. Not an ounce of knowledge had been gained in all those years. Still exactly the same person. I am so far from the person I was when I got married that it's scary. That's the way it should work. However if you don't grow together the trouble will come. If you don't obtain the knowledge of how the other sex thinks and feels and are able to make adjustments accordingly you are doomed. This phenomenon is not restricted to the female of the species. You have all ran into an old acquaintance or school mate and thought to yourself "man this dude hasn't changed since grade 10" imagine being married to that.

I have never considered myself a ladies man or real good looking. I am pretty average. My first wife was about the same. Cute but no beauty queen. The years between that breakup and me meeting my current wife were the real learning years. For the next 8 years or so I fucked anything that moved. From Niagara Falls to Flint. Michigan and sometimes 2 at a time. I say this not to boast but to give you an idea as to where my head was during those years. I cared about nothing or nobody but me and my cock. Conversely, I tended to hang out with women that were of the exact same thinking. Many coming out of or still in bad marriages that were looking for a spark. It was during those years that I really discovered how women think. They have the same core and basic sexual needs but cannot express them the same way as men due to the confines of social "standards" forced upon all of us from birth. They also face much different stigmas and challenges than men do. Jobs, relationships, expectations forced upon them from society. Then one day in 1999 in walks my current wife. Twelve years my junior and a natural beauty. A body on her that was just ridiculous. Way out of my league physically. Not sure how but I managed to get her out on a date. We have rarely spent a day apart since. I took major heat from friends, family, coworkers. "She is just using you for your money". She is too young for you. What is "she" doing with you. What they did not know and what it took me sometime to realize is that she never actually knew how attractive she was, she never knew what men were thinking when she walked by. She was raised on a farm in a big family that was fairly religious (although she has no interest in religion herself). So she never learned the little tricks most girls learn and never realized the power they have over us. But she sure as shit knew what she wanted and was not afraid to ask for it. I have not done a thing in all the years since that she does not do with me nor would I want to. She is my best friend. The secret to it has been that we don't "need" each other. We would both be fine alone. We are together because we want to be together and for no other reason.

Beware any woman that feels or acts like she has reached the pinnacle of their lives when they have a child. You are doomed. Beware any woman that constantly posts pictures of themselves on FB or other social media that were taken 15 years ago in order to get fake confirmation from strangers that they "still have it". Trust no man under the age of 25 to tell you any truth whatsoever in order to get into your pants. It's all lies and your heart will be broken. Of course some men never do grow up. Finally, if you can't love yourself you will be incapable of loving anyone else. If you are not comfortable being alone and reading a book or even going to a movie or dinner on your own without considering yourself to be a failure, you won't be of any good to anyone else. Never try to force or control someone into being something they are incapable of being, it will not work. Learn when to fold your cards and move on.

I got lucky, a chance meeting turned out to be a true love for two people. I find it's pretty rare. I will always be grateful for that.


----------



## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

Guitar101 said:


> Not really. Where does it say "I got the girlfriend pregnant and had to marry her"? Totally different scenario if that happens. But that's another story.


No. It doesn’t say that. We are all free to make our own decisions. To do what we want. Which morphs more into doing the right thing. The thing your supposed to do because it’s the right thing. Not because it’s what you want. It’s an evolution that develops in tiny steps. Not for everyone. But for many. Look at the separation stats. Then have an honest conversation with those that are still together. An honest conversation.


----------



## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I would agree with much of what you have said however the perspective can be changed/viewed by several factors. Age is clearly one huge factor. Having even a basic understanding of how the other sex men/women view the world and the opposite sex is another. Much of that is programmed from the day you are born. Anyone over the age of 30 should get what I am saying, there will be those that don't and that is part of the problem in many marriages. The creation and use of Facebook has proven these theories in living color. We are at the core sexual beings. The pecking orders are sorted at a young age based on physical appearance. Men strive to reach as high as they can on that pecking order. Women compete to be on it and the higher up they are the easier life will be (for a limited time). It's the same as when you were in the shower rooms and were taking a peek at the size of everyone else's cock to see where you rated. I was just as dumb and naive as anyone else when I got married the first time. Knew nothing about how women thought and never considered acting any different. We had our first child when I was 24 and then another when I was 27. The trouble in our marriage started when my wife wanted a third and I said no. Years later I realized that I had never seen her happier then the two times she was pregnant. The attention, the "status" if you were. She ended up leaving me. I could not even think about being without her, I was old school and we had kids so that was my life. Today, I could kiss her ass for having the courage to actually leave and pursue what she wanted. I was 29 when she left. I was devastated. I wandered around in a haze for the next 2 years. In the meantime she had just dropped her 3rd with the dude she was fucking behind my back. It hit me then. She has nothing in her life, nothing. No ambitions, no dreams, no goals. She was also a terrible Mother. Once the kids were born and people went back to their lives the thrill was gone. The odd time we crossed paths over the years, with our kids for school or marriages or whatever and I would talk to her it was like she was still 17 when I first met her. Not an ounce of knowledge had been gained in all those years. Still exactly the same person. I am so far from the person I was when I got married that it's scary. That's the way it should work. However if you don't grow together the trouble will come. If you don't obtain the knowledge of how the other sex thinks and feels and are able to make adjustments accordingly you are doomed. This phenomenon is not restricted to the female of the species. You have all ran into an old acquaintance or school mate and thought to yourself "man this dude hasn't changed since grade 10" imagine being married to that.
> 
> I have never considered myself a ladies man or real good looking. I am pretty average. My first wife was about the same. Cute but no beauty queen. The years between that breakup and me meeting my current wife were the real learning years. For the next 8 years or so I fucked anything that moved. From Niagara Falls to Flint. Michigan and sometimes 2 at a time. I say this not to boast but to give you an idea as to where my head was during those years. I cared about nothing or nobody but me and my cock. Conversely, I tended to hang out with women that were of the exact same thinking. Many coming out of or still in bad marriages that were looking for a spark. It was during those years that I really discovered how women think. They have the same core and basic sexual needs but cannot express them the same way as men due to the confines of social "standards" forced upon all of us from birth. Then one day in 1999 in walks my current wife. Twelve years my junior and a natural beauty. A body on her that was just ridiculous. Way out of my league physically. Not sure how but I managed to get her out on a date. We have rarely spent a day apart since. I took major heat from friends, family, coworkers. "She is just using you for your money". She is too young for you. What is "she" doing with you. What they did not know and what it took me sometime to realize is that she never actually knew how attractive she was, she never knew what men were thinking when she walked by. She was raised on a farm in a big family that was fairly religious (although she has no interest in religion herself). So she never learned the little tricks most girls learn and never realized the power they have over us. But she sure as shit knew what she wanted and was not afraid to ask for it. I have not done a thing in all the years since that she does not do with me nor would I want to. She is my best friend. The secret to it has been that we don't "need" each other. We would both be fine alone. We are together because we want to be together and for no other reason.
> 
> ...


Wisdom comes with age and experience. Thank you for sharing all that.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

troyhead said:


> I see the word "happy" a lot in the words above, which I think gives away the assumption that the ultimate pursuit in life is happiness. But what if it isn't?


 the ultimate Pursuit isn't happiness. It's growth

That's my opinion


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Adcandour said:


> the ultimate Pursuit isn't happiness. It's growth
> 
> That's my opinion


Happiness is a choice - you choose to be happy - or not. For me, it took a long time and a bunch of false starts and seeking a depth that didn't matter. Simplification matters, acceptance matters, lowered expectations (believe it or not) matter. Norman Vincent Peale's $2.00 book is far more helpful than anything else I have ever read.


----------



## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

Adcandour said:


> the ultimate Pursuit isn't happiness. It's growth
> 
> That's my opinion


Agreed. 

For lots of people, happiness is their goal (it's in the US constitution, after all). But it seems that the people that spend the most time looking for happiness have the hardest time finding it.


----------



## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

But doesn't growth lead to happiness it always has in my life. When I was much younger I was a very angry young man and life meant nothing to me as I was shunned most of my early life by others in my age group. Almost went down a very dark road but because of one person it changed my direction and there was growth by leaving my old life behind and adopting a new way of looking at things. So my growth did lead to my happiness.
I think its just to easy for some folks to just walk away when thinks go sideways. For me it doesn't make sense to just walk away. I had to fight to get where I am today and it just seems like it is a lot less work to keep it then to walk away. But that's because what we learn and see in our youth. And I have seen far to much pain in families who did not want to work it out.
That's not to say some separations have to happen. Sometimes you just grow so far apart that there is no way of coming around with each other and its better then allowing screaming or hitting to happen.
No matter what happens Charles I hope you find that place you need to be to continue to grow and find ultimate peace and happiness.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm still trying to shrink a bit.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I think too many people get married who shouldn't.

I'm not judging anyone, but as someone who has been married to the same woman for 29 years and counting, I don't take my vows or responsibilities in this context lightly.

Naturally it would have been easier at various stages in our marriage to walk away, and many people do so, often over a piece of tail or something equally trivial (not that I don't enjoy but....).

We've reached a point where we both realize how lucky we are to still have each other and how terrible a mistake it would have been to take the easy path.

I realize it's not easy to divorce or separate, but it may have seemed that way at various periods.

Frankly I can't imagine going through some of the recent trial and tribulations I've had without the support of my wife.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Going on for 44 years here but then we have no kids so maybe that had some bearing on it. Although I doubt it. Now all bets are off when she retires next year and we're stuck at home together full time


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

davetcan said:


> Going on for 44 years here but then we have no kids so maybe that had some bearing on it. Although I doubt it. Now all bets are off when she retires next year and we're stuck at home together full time


Well we have three kids together and I have one from a previous relationship.

And, we have a special shared responsibility.

One of our children is mentally challenged and will live with us until such time as we are no longer able to care for her and ourselves.

We will never have an empty nest.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

davetcan said:


> Going on for 44 years here but then we have no kids so maybe that had some bearing on it. Although I doubt it. Now all bets are off when she retires next year and we're stuck at home together full time


"Honey, now than I'm retired you can teach me to play the guitar"

"Hoozer, Doozer and Boil, how may I direct your call?"


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

davetcan said:


> Going on for 44 years here but then we have no kids so maybe that had some bearing on it. Although I doubt it. Now all bets are off when she retires next year and we're stuck at home together full time


You'd better get your home project plans and tools ready.


----------



## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

davetcan said:


> Going on for 44 years here but then we have no kids so maybe that had some bearing on it. Although I doubt it. Now all bets are off when she retires next year and we're stuck at home together full time












https://play.google.com/store/books...MI5rHuyNyw5gIVh6DsCh0iuw3SEAQYASABEgL4WPD_BwE


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

davetcan said:


> Going on for 44 years here but then we have no kids so maybe that had some bearing on it. Although I doubt it. Now all bets are off when she retires next year and we're stuck at home together full time


I used to deliver a module on psychological adaptation to retirement to staff from CFB Esquimault taking the pre-retirement course. Part of what we'd discuss was the challenge of having a couple stuck in close quarters post-retirement. When I would mention how he's suddenly "teaching" his wife how to wash the dishes "properly", there were an awful lot of female heads in the room nodding vigorously. Giving each other reasonable space is important. Not so much space that you feel like strangers. And not so little that you feel like the other one is interfering with your life and personal interests. That can be a tough line to walk, and not the sort of thing one smoothly and seamlessly adjusts to.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I'll be honest and say I've avoided your thread for my own reasons here Chuck. My experience in life, spirituality, and differences in thinking don't share the same path but I know the road you're on. I can't say much else than I get where you're at in an oddly different yet surprisingly similar way. I'm weird too. Some people call it eccentric. Whatevs.

Hope you find your answer.


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

mhammer said:


> I used to deliver a module on psychological adaptation to retirement to staff from CFB Esquimault taking the pre-retirement course. Part of what we'd discuss was the challenge of having a couple stuck in close quarters post-retirement. When I would mention how he's suddenly "teaching" his wife how to wash the dishes "properly", there were an awful lot of female heads in the room nodding vigorously. Giving each other reasonable space is important. Not so much space that you feel like strangers. And not so little that you feel like the other one is interfering with your life and personal interests. That can be a tough line to walk, and not the sort of thing one smoothly and seamlessly adjusts to.


This is why I let Maggs do all the work


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Dorian2 said:


> I'll be honest and say I've avoided your thread for my own reasons here Chuck. My experience in life, spirituality, and differences in thinking don't share the same path but I know the road you're on. I can't say much else than I get where you're at in an oddly different yet surprisingly similar way. I'm weird too. Some people call it eccentric. Whatevs.
> 
> Hope you find your answer.


I made a reference once about a poster who I was waiting for input from and knew would chime in in a particular way. It was you; I don't know why, but you came to mind. Don't ask me what post, but I believe it was within the year. I bet the theme from x files is playing somewhere right now, haha.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Ship of fools said:


> But doesn't growth lead to happiness it always has in my life. When I was much younger I was a very angry young man and life meant nothing to me as I was shunned most of my early life by others in my age group. Almost went down a very dark road but because of one person it changed my direction and there was growth by leaving my old life behind and adopting a new way of looking at things. So my growth did lead to my happiness.
> I think its just to easy for some folks to just walk away when thinks go sideways. For me it doesn't make sense to just walk away. I had to fight to get where I am today and it just seems like it is a lot less work to keep it then to walk away. But that's because what we learn and see in our youth. And I have seen far to much pain in families who did not want to work it out.
> That's not to say some separations have to happen. Sometimes you just grow so far apart that there is no way of coming around with each other and its better then allowing screaming or hitting to happen.
> No matter what happens Charles I hope you find that place you need to be to continue to grow and find ultimate peace and happiness.


I don't think growth has to lead anywhere but forward. Towards 'what' is another story.

Please understand that I didn't walk away. It's not what anyone thinks. It's just important to note that I'm not a quitter, so please wipe it from your mind.


----------



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Adcandour said:


> I made a reference once about a poster who I was waiting for input from and knew would chime in in a particular way. It was you; I don't know why, but you came to mind. Don't ask me what post, but I believe it was within the year. I bet the theme from x files is playing somewhere right now, haha.


"Takes one to know one".


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Dorian2 said:


> "Takes one to know one".



Sometimes it takes two.


----------



## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

No one thinks you walked away, I'm sure you did what you both needed.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Ship of fools said:


> No one thinks you walked away, I'm sure you did what you both needed.


My apologies. I thought that's what you were implying.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I understand you are moving in the direction that is best, but it must be painful regardless. I hope you get through it and on top of your game as soon as you can.


----------

