# LP Junior Finish



## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

Hello,

In the grand scheme of things, I would like to build a LP Junior using this as the base:

http://buy.precisionguitarkits.com/product/single-cut-jr-straight-up-rock-and-roll

I have attached a picture of a LP Junior below with a finish that I think looks very cool. Could the experts out there tell me what was possibly used to achieve this?

Thanks


----------



## Mike Potvin (Apr 30, 2009)

It looks like vintage amber dye to me.


----------



## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

I have this picture up on two different computer monitors and it is quite yellow on the one and darker/more adged on the other.

Studying the Minwax website, I found a water based stain with the color I am going for called Mustard. These were the steps I was thinking of trying on a scrap piece of mahogany:

Apply pre-stain wood conditioner as per Minwax instructions
Apply Mustard stain
Apply water-based wipe-on poly

I basically want a finish that isn't to hard to apply, i.e. no spraying and that looks good. Would the mahogany need a grain filler with all these steps as well?


----------



## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

While you'll get in the range of that color tone with a stain and it will be close, I don't think it'll be the finish pictured - as Mike noted it's probably a tinted clear coat, probably without any base color just sealed clear. To get the depth of that finish you really need to alternate layers of clear and tinted clear - to me it looks like a yellow NGR tint but any transtint type dye would work - also it helps if the lumber is pale (looks like that one is Limba [pale yellow to light brown] not mahogany?) anyway a pale base helps so it doesn't turn too orange.


----------



## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

I think the site mentioned the wood is Korina for guitar picture above. I'm not going for the color exactly as its hard to tell being on the computer and all. I basically would like to end up with something that shows the natural grain but is tinted towards yellow. I guess stains or tinted clear coats wouldn't bring a mahogany body to this level of yellow.


----------



## Mike Potvin (Apr 30, 2009)

Jimmy_D said:


> While you'll get in the range of that color tone with a stain and it will be close, I don't think it'll be the finish pictured - as Mike noted it's probably a tinted clear coat, probably without any base color just sealed clear. To get the depth of that finish you really need to alternate layers of clear and tinted clear - to me it looks like a yellow NGR tint but any transtint type dye would work - also it helps if the lumber is pale (looks like that one is Limba [pale yellow to light brown] not mahogany?) anyway a pale base helps so it doesn't turn too orange.


Very good point: it does look like limba to me, and limba is quite yellow to start with. Mahogany tends to go more towards brown with amber tint.

You will *definitely* need tor grain fill mahogany (or limba) if you want a non-satin finish.


----------



## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

Limba - Korina same material, that explains the yellow not turning too orange as it would with mahogany. Sounds like you're on the right track with what you've mentioned about staining it and finishing clear, you should have no problems, perhaps ask them to ship some scraps for finish testers.


----------



## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

Mike Potvin said:


> Very good point: it does look like limba to me, and limba is quite yellow to start with. Mahogany tends to go more towards brown with amber tint.
> 
> You will *definitely* need tor grain fill mahogany (or limba) if you want a non-satin finish.


If one were staining mahogany, do you fill the grain first and stain second?

- - - Updated - - -



Jimmy_D said:


> Limba - Korina same material, that explains the yellow not turning too orange as it would with mahogany. Sounds like you're on the right track with what you've mentioned about staining it and finishing clear, you should have no problems, perhaps ask them to ship some scraps for finish testers.


Your mentioning that the mahogany would turn orange with a yellow stain? Than trying to stain the mahogany with Minwax's Mustard would not come very yellow I would gather than.


----------



## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

> You will *definitely* need tor grain fill mahogany (or limba) if you want a non-satin finish.


Colour the grain filler


----------



## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

shoretyus said:


> Colour the grain filler


I have also heard the suggestion of using a layer or 2 to fill the pores. Is this effective?


----------



## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

dcole said:


> If one were staining mahogany, do you fill the grain first and stain second?
> 
> Your mentioning that the mahogany would turn orange with a yellow stain? Than trying to stain the mahogany with Minwax's Mustard would not come very yellow I would gather than.


If one were using the "old school" stain method you could use a neutral grain filler and use your stain to color it, applied it to the raw wood, sand it back and re-stain, then clear coat. Alternately you could just apply a neutral grain filler to raw wood, sand it back and then stain it, then clear coat.

Let me point out that you can achieve perfect results this way as it's been a typical furniture finishing regiment for decades, but it's based on a couple of things - #1 is perfect sanding up front to ensure even penetration of the color - this part should be easy for you.

#2 is what we used to call "toning" the work. Once you've applied the final coat of stain and it's tacky - you're using your wiping rags (both wet and dry) to try and "even" out the color (apply artistic license here) - this also is no problem for you but the last part of "toning" may be - you'd typically use a tinted clear coat after your clear sealer, before your clear top coats, in order to ensure an "uniform" color across the entire face.

Like I said it's entirely possible to leave out the very last toner step mentioned if you do a perfect sanding job up front and tone it with the rag. 

This is basically why these days everyone will tell you to seal it clear before doing anything (and that's what everyone does), "because if you don't it'll be splotchy" (and it will be if the sanding isn't perfect) - I can tell you oil stain applied to raw wood was industry's main method for decades so it can be done. 

Note; one thing I wouldn't do is clear seal first then apply an oil stain over that - it goes against everything I know and I can't comment on the results.

About the mahogany, I don't see it working in any shade of yellow if you're using an oil stain, it won't show up as a yellow it'll just turn orange/amber. Even on a pale yellow wood like Korina I think you'll have to stain/tone it a few times to get the yellow effect.

Best of luck - try samples first!


----------



## dcole (Oct 8, 2008)

Thanks for the help guys. Your giving me lots of good information to start with here and I do hope to do tests to see what process/finish type I like.

Minwax has a pre-stain wood conditioner that is supposed to help the wood absorb the stain evenly. I might try that out.

So if I used these steps here and follow the instructions on the products:

Grain filled
Stain the mahogany (not yellow!) if desired
Wipe-on poly

With that I should get a nice smooth finish.


----------

