# i'm calling bullshit



## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

how is it that people with no jobs, during a time when we have the worst inflation in 40 years, are buying more of EVERYTHING than ever before? how is it that we suddenly forgot, pretty much over night - how to ship items around the country? fender claims to be selling more than ever before, and yet they also have a major price increase. i won't be lining anyone's pockets to buy anything other than strings until all this shakes out. there's a major scam going on with all this. 

do any of you smoke, or did you ever? did you notice that when you know you can't smoke later, you'll smoke more when you can? that's what is happening right now. they are artificially choking supply to induce panic buying. i'm not going to play along, and neither should you


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Thankfully for me the only guitar on my radar is a Strat that L&M has in stock used. I don't have anything new in sight at all at this point.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Well, every factory we deal with is heavily delayed. They cite raw material shortages, and shipping delays getting their materials. Their costs are going up and demand exceeds production capacity, so they're raising their prices. Many are in areas where they have the same COVID-related issues we do, causing them to operate on a slightly reduced capacity.

Shipping is taking 2-3X as long as it used to and also costs up to 10X as much, depending on the method and origin, so that factors into the price increases. Insurance is increasing a lot.

Rent for small warehouse space has increased significantly due to the high demand. Many home-based internet businesses BOOMED when the pandemic hit, and they are all flooding into the commercial small warehouse spaces.

Look up "The Great Resignation". People are leaving low wage jobs in droves, in search of something "better". Businesses can't hire/keep low skill/low wage workers right now. Not to mention, anytime people have the sniffles they aren't allowed to go to work. Specifically to Fender, they are in California, which has some of the most strict COVID regulations in the US. I imagine that also has an impact. I'm stuck at home today because my daughter has the sniffles. That reduces Next Gen's capacity by 50-60% (yes, I count as 2-3 ppl because I'm that awesome 😜). I've got two young kids, so this happens a lot.

As a side note, and somewhat related, China has introduced new environmental regulations that have a significant impact on their manufacturing sector. I received word months ago from a factory we deal with that their production capacity will be at roughly 50% during certain times of the year due to the new regulations.

There are a ton of other examples I can give. Also, all these issues are getting worse, not better. We're not Fender. Not even close... But, we're seeing massive delays, significantly increased costs, and reduction of work capacity during an increase in demand. Scale works both ways. You know the saying, more money more problems. They have all the same problems, just with many more $zeros behind them.

I've asked the same question as you... Where are people getting the money for all this purchasing? Turns out, gov checks, savings, and increased debt. A lot of increased debt.

The next 5 years will be very interesting.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I've got a couple more guitars on my radar as I prepare for retirement in the next 5 or 6 years. A les paul and a strat or strat like guitar. I'm not in a hurry so I'll wait till all this craziness ends. If it never happens I'm content going in to retirement with what I have.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)




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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

cheezyridr said:


> how is it that people with no jobs, during a time when we have the worst inflation in 40 years, are buying more of EVERYTHING than ever before? how is it that we suddenly forgot, pretty much over night - how to ship items around the country? fender claims to be selling more than ever before, and yet they also have a major price increase. i won't be lining anyone's pockets to buy anything other than strings until all this shakes out. there's a major scam going on with all this.
> 
> do any of you smoke, or did you ever? did you notice that when you know you can't smoke later, you'll smoke more when you can? that's what is happening right now. they are artificially choking supply to induce panic buying. i'm not going to play along, and neither should you


This whole pandemic is a freaking scam! Trying to scare, manipulate and break the people! “Go get your vaccines and you can what you’ve always been able to do if not you can’t do anything” destroying our economy like people in my lifetime have never saw before!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

We tend to forget that "raw materials" don't harvest, package, and ship themselves. Even if Fender's employee attendance in its various facilities was 100%, somebody had to go into theforest and cut the trees. Somebody had to trim and saw them. Somebody had to drive he lumber to Fender's wood-prep facilities. Somebody had to make the plastic usedfor Strat pickup covers. Somebody had to operate the facility where trem blocks are cast.

There are a lot of building blocks that allow things we see hanging in the store with a price tag to come into being. A labour shortage in any one of them gums up the works. It won't necessarily *stop* production, but it will slow it down. Witness the current reduced car manufacturing because of a chip shortage.


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

buy used, folks.


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

The current unemployment rate in the US is 3.9%.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

terminalvertigo said:


> buy used, folks.



Used prices are just as affected.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

Supply chain issues are EVERYWHERE. And it is a chain. If one link breaks, then there are issues down the line. Go and try to find a new car in the States. The semi-conductor shortage means that some lots have no cars to sell. 

It's simple supply and demand. Inflation is up big time around the world because people want stuff, and there is less of it due to the supply chain. I wouldn't be shocked if the atmospheric river event cutting the port of Vancouver off from the rest of Canada impacted things quite a bit.

And yes, demand has increased. People who are sitting at home think "hey, maybe I should learn guitar." Take the commute out of the equation for those working from home, and you have more disposable income and more time. Less going out to shop means more income and more time. And so it goes.


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## DC23 (Mar 28, 2014)

terminalvertigo said:


> buy used, folks.


Bigger 'scam' than buying new right now!  I see artificially inflated prices like I've never seen before. There used to be the odd listings out to lunch. With what I'm seeing throughout much of the used market, I'd rather buy new. You're saving minimal, or paying even less because some local seller has determined his used gear is 'rare' now.


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

DC23 said:


> Bigger 'scam' than buying new right now!  I see artificially inflated prices like I've never seen before. There used to be the odd listings out to lunch. With what I'm seeing throughout much of the used market, I'd rather buy new. You're saving minimal, or paying even less because some local seller has determined his used gear is 'rare' now.


"asking" prices.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

terminalvertigo said:


> "asking" prices.



When I see a ridiculously high asking price I don't even want to engage in any negotiation with that seller.


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## DC23 (Mar 28, 2014)

terminalvertigo said:


> "asking" prices.


They're all 'firm'! hahaha.


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> When I see a ridiculously high asking price I don't even want to engage in any negotiation with that seller.


then they aren't too motivated to sell i guess... lots of fish in the sea.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

We have 40 job openings in the midwest USA, white collar jobs, we are having a hard time filling. People's expectations are apparently ridiculous. And some of them must be getting what they're after - we were just raided by a competitor, who took back people we raided from them in the first place, paying huge dough to take them back. Just more inflation, it's in everything.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

If the pricing is too high on a used item, I just think "oh well" and move along. I don't see used pricing as a scam, just opportunists see an advantage. Like anything....if it's higher than you want to pay, go find one elsewhere. pay the high price, or wait until you can get one you find priced within your expectancy.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

There is someone in Ottawa that has been trying to sell an old Hamer Slammer superstrat for years at the same price: $420. Nowadays, they might get it.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I think Jon nailed it with his post, it's only going to get worse. "Interesting" in the next five years might be a euphemism for crappy times coming. I personally think the good times are in the past for now and won't be back until at least the later part of the 2020s. Fender is just caught in the same thing many companies are in already, though guaranteed there's some extra panic hype with an announcement like that.

What many don't realize is we're in a silent war w/ China, and not just a trade war. Along with the recent twisted economic policies of governments, it's a perfect storm for some rough times ahead.


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

Rollin Hand said:


> There is someone in Ottawa that has been trying to sell an old Hamer Slammer superstrat for years at the same price: $420. Nowadays, they might get it.


thats my hamer! :/


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

terminalvertigo said:


> then they aren't too motivated to sell i guess... lots of fish in the sea.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Just look at the increased profits of corporations. They took the news of inflation and used it to jack up their prices much more than necessary to cover the rate of inflation. One report I saw was the that up to 60% of inflation we are seeing has been caused by extra profits being taken by corporate greed and not by market pressure, the epidemic, suppy chain, or other factors.

So much for "We're all in this together". Seems some are in it to profit (more) from it.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

'Pass it off to the customer,' billionaire Jim Pattison says of rising business costs - BNN Bloomberg


As inflation drives operating costs higher, a prominent Canadian business leader says one solution is to pass those rising expenses onto customers.




www.bnnbloomberg.ca


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Just look at the increased profits of corporations. They took the news of inflation and used it to jack up their prices much more than necessary to cover the rate of inflation. One report I saw was the that up to 60% of inflation we are seeing has been caused by extra profits being taken by corporate greed and not by market pressure, the epidemic, suppy chain, or other factors.
> 
> So much for "We're all in this together". Seems some are in it to profit (more) from it.


Hopefully, this will open the door for some small-scale entrepreneurs to find their way into the market.


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

So far thru 2022, I've bought a 10 pack of D'addario XLs..

I would wager many of us have gear combinations we haven't even tried at home yet..

Prices go up? dig into what you have!


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

the chip shortage is not a proper example. fenders are made in the usa guitars. there aint no chips in a strat or a tele. there aint no chips in a proper tube amp. if new gear was moving as they say it is, it's not just fender, but everyone else, too. with that many new players, where are they? i don't know any, how many do any of you know? surely some of you guys give lessons. are you seeing a flood of new players? this place should be sloppin over with FNGs. i haven't noticed that happening. the big covid checks ended here last spring. the extra covid money in one's u.i. ended in september. no one has gotten extra covid money since then, at least here in the states. 
as for the unemployment rate? yeah, that's what i see online is the rate but, if that's true, then the DOZENS of people i know personally, including myself, who have been waiting for their u.i checks for MONTHS without receiving a single dime makes no sense what so ever.


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

Jim DaddyO said:


> So much for "We're all in this together". Seems some are in it to profit (more) from it.


This is arguably the reason for a great many problems in society, far beyond simple inflation. The supply chain is complex. Just one greedy person/business in the chain, and the entire link goes up. And you can guarantee there are many greedy links in the chain. I could go on and on about this subject, but it will likely cause the thread to be closed because it would become an economic/political/moral debate.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

cheezyridr said:


> the chip shortage is not a proper example. fenders are made in the usa guitars. there aint no chips in a strat or a tele. there aint no chips in a proper tube amp. if new gear was moving as they say it is, it's not just fender, but everyone else, too. with that many new players, where are they? i don't know any, how many do any of you know? surely some of you guys give lessons. are you seeing a flood of new players? this place should be sloppin over with FNGs. i haven't noticed that happening. the big covid checks ended here last spring. the extra covid money in one's u.i. ended in september. no one has gotten extra covid money since then, at least here in the states.
> as for the unemployment rate? yeah, that's what i see online is the rate but, if that's true, then the DOZENS of people i know personally, including myself, who have been waiting for their u.i checks for MONTHS without receiving a single dime makes no sense what so ever.


The semiconductor situation, like Fender's situation, is an example of supply and demand.

There are Ping (Taiwanese) tuners and bridges on Strats made in the USA. And where does Fender get their fretwire? Wood? Paint? Screws? Where does Ping get their steel? Their screws? Their brass components? Any piece of the chain goes missing and you've got supply issues. Just like with the semiconductors, where GM actually was selling cars missing features/components. Why? They had no supply, and there was demand.

And, in the case of Fender, they make all of their own guitars out of these components. If there is demand, but they can't up production, then you have a shortage.

And people are damned right about some firms profiting off the situation. I have seen it myself with ridonkulous estimates for work around my house, where there is no way the cost of materials accounts for the price difference (in some cases, five-figure differences on an interlock patio). Some people (not me) were willing to pay it, so they were charging what the market would bear.

Your choice as a consumer is to bite on inflated prices, or to be patient, and source the better (or remotely fair) deal.


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Be ready things won't change even after the pandemic situation.

Even before 2020 we already started seeing more and more empty jobs position. There's more old people than youngster, don't be fooled by covid, there's just a short of avaible workers everywhere.
The age pyramid is reversed and we gonna experience the delcine of many services and business models for many years to come. Add to that, all the emerging countries that have enough of destroying their own country to produce our goods.
Be ready for A LOT of big changes.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> When I see a ridiculously high asking price I don't even want to engage in any negotiation with that seller.


I’ve seen some that I _knew_ were high and others that I felt were high but also considered “maybe it’s just me”.

I’ll usually watch the ad for a bit and if it hasn’t moved in a while, I’ll reach out and either make an offer (usually with something to back it up) or simply say that if at some point, they decide that they might have some wiggle room, let me know. The latter is usually for someone who may or may not have put “firm” in their ad BUT it hasn’t sold or had a price drop in about a month.

If they’re willing to sell at the price I’m happy with, great. If not, I move on.


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

if somebody will buy it somebody will sell it to them
the end
caveat emptor
j


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## Jim Soloway (Sep 27, 2013)

keto said:


> We have 40 job openings in the midwest USA, white collar jobs, we are having a hard time filling. People's expectations are apparently ridiculous. And some of them must be getting what they're after - we were just raided by a competitor, who took back people we raided from them in the first place, paying huge dough to take them back. Just more inflation, it's in everything.


Why would their expectations be ridiculous if someone is willing to meet their demands? If their price is clearing the market, then the problem is probably with your expectations rather than theirs. I think wages have been artificially suppressed for a really long time and are just starting to catch up to true value.


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## Fred Gifford (Sep 2, 2019)

in the current economic climate I just can't understand the "urgent need" to purchase yet another guitar . I don't get it


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Jim Soloway said:


> Why would their expectations be ridiculous if someone is willing to meet their demands? If their price is clearing the market, then the problem is probably with you expectations rather than theirs. I think wages have been artificially suppressed for a really long time and are just starting to catch up to true value.


While I don't disagree with you, people's expectations are sometimes out of whack. My boss says some applying are looking for VP money for entry level jobs. There may be a disconnect, but it isn't THAT big.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)




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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

keto said:


> While I don't disagree with you, people's expectations are sometimes out of whack. My boss says some applying are looking for VP money for entry level jobs. There may be a disconnect, but it isn't THAT big.


And there have been lots of places looking for VP-level qualifications and experience for entry-level money too.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

laristotle said:


>


that was hilarious!
reminds me of when i hired a guy to work in my shop (it was 22 yrs ago)
he came to work in oversized pants and a hoodie, in august. the temp in the shop was at least 90°F on a good day. i gave him the easiest most entry level job in the shop. all he had to do was trace around patterns on insulation with a piece of chalk, then cut out the shape with a knife. he wanted to work with one hand while holding up his pants with the other. i made him tie his pants up with a piece of rope, and told him to wear a belt the next day. the next day came, and no belt. i made him wear the rope again. he complained of the heat. i pointed to one of my mechanics, who weighed about 300 lbs, and was literally working in a puddle of sweat, and was pushing 50. i told him if he can work like that, so can you, being 18 and in good shape. i recommended he take off the gigantic hoodie and it would be cooler. about an hour later i see him walking around, so i asked him what he was doing. he said the heat was making him feel like he was going to pass out. i sat him in the office, and told him to call his ride, he was no longer needed. that was typical of the new hires. they all wanted top pay but didn't bring any skills with them, and didn't want to do physical labor.


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## BobChuck (Jan 16, 2012)

1st - The money has shifted from an industry to another. People don't travel as much, don't go to restaurant, cinema, etc... They stay at home and do other stuff ... like buying a new guitars/amp/pedal.

2nd - Supply and demand. The used market prices are high because you can't find much on shelves. You can compaint about the guy asking retail price on is kijiji ad but the truth is, you won't find his item anyway. Of course there are exceptions. But still true. Someone on TGP has offered me full retail for the Two Rock I am waiting.

Those, who are complaining, are living in the past and are disconnected from reality. It seems they don't understand inflation either.

For the recession, it always comes later, it has begun but there is always a delay from a event to a other.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

BobChuck said:


> 1st - The money has shifted from an industry to another. People don't travel as much, don't go to restaurant, cinema, etc... They stay at home and do other stuff ... like buying a new guitars/amp/pedal.
> 
> 2nd - Supply and demand. The used market prices are high because you can't find much on shelves. You can compaint about the guy asking retail price on is kijiji ad but the truth is, you won't find his item anyway. Of course there are exeptions. But still true. Someone on TGP has offered me full retail for the Two Rock I am waiting.
> 
> ...


Yes, I'm struggling getting some people to understand that inflation is a lagging indicator. Crap that's been happening for 2 years (and longer for some factors, of course) is where we're at today, not, for example, the current administration south of the border.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

BobChuck said:


> 1st - The money has shifted from an industry to another. People don't travel as much, don't go to restaurant, cinema, etc... They stay at home and do other stuff ... like buying a new guitars/amp/pedal.
> 
> 2nd - Supply and demand. The used market prices are high because you can't find much on shelves. You can compaint about the guy asking retail price on is kijiji ad but the truth is, you won't find his item anyway. Of course there are exeptions. But still true. Someone on TGP has offered me full retail for the Two Rock I am waiting.
> 
> ...



Luckily I already own enough nice gear to keep me content for life. Sure I'd like to add some more gear but these are luxury items. At the current prices, for what I want, I'm content with being out of the running. Not that I couldn't afford them, just that I choose not to be hosed right now. As inflation rises and many are having a hard time even putting food on the table the luxury items will become much less important. Probably see lots of gear on the market just so people can eat. Thats when I'll get those last couple guitars I want.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

cheezyridr said:


> the chip shortage is not a proper example. fenders are made in the usa guitars. there aint no chips in a strat or a tele. there aint no chips in a proper tube amp. if new gear was moving as they say it is, it's not just fender, but everyone else, too. with that many new players, where are they? i don't know any, how many do any of you know? surely some of you guys give lessons. are you seeing a flood of new players? this place should be sloppin over with FNGs. i haven't noticed that happening. the big covid checks ended here last spring. the extra covid money in one's u.i. ended in september. no one has gotten extra covid money since then, at least here in the states.
> as for the unemployment rate? yeah, that's what i see online is the rate but, if that's true, then the DOZENS of people i know personally, including myself, who have been waiting for their u.i checks for MONTHS without receiving a single dime makes no sense what so ever.


You're perhaps not thinking broadly enough. There's chips in the CNC machines, chips in the computers, chips in the vehicles that take people to and from work. A new CNC machine or a replacement is probably not a trivial undertaking in this day and age. I'm sorry you've been waiting for EI payments for that long. Hope it gets fixed soon.


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## BobChuck (Jan 16, 2012)

guitarman2 said:


> Luckily I already own enough nice gear to keep me content for life. Sure I'd like to add some more gear but these are luxury items. At the current prices, for what I want, I'm content with being out of the running. Not that I couldn't afford them, just that I choose not to be hosed right now. As inflation rises and many are having a hard time even putting food on the table the luxury items will become much less important. Probably see lots of gear on the market just so people can eat. Thats when I'll get those last couple guitars I want.


True. I can easily see all those new guitars for sale in a few weeks/months, all at the same time.
While everybody will be desperate to sell, the supply will rise. And very few of you, that were waiting, won't make the demand riseas much. Goodluck mate!


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## Stephenlouis (Jun 24, 2019)

jbealsmusic said:


> Well, every factory we deal with is heavily delayed. They cite raw material shortages, and shipping delays getting their materials. Their costs are going up and demand exceeds production capacity, so they're raising their prices. Many are in areas where they have the same COVID-related issues we do, causing them to operate on a slightly reduced capacity.
> 
> Shipping is taking 2-3X as long as it used to and also costs up to 10X as much, depending on the method and origin, so that factors into the price increases. Insurance is increasing a lot.
> 
> ...


 Many factories were idled to avoid exceeding limits on energy use imposed by Beijing to promote efficiency, they used up their quota's much faster than anticipated. The central government made each province create an energy intensity target as part of President Xi Jinping’s plan to reach carbon neutrality by 2060. Jiangsu alone has an economy as great as all of Canada, and there are being snowballed by forced power cutbacks, and coal supply problems. I doubt that directly effects Fender, but its just not material shortages now.


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## TheGASisReal (Mar 2, 2020)

1) The supply chain issues are real.
2) Most of us are not laid off. In fact, many of us have benefited financially from the pandemic.
3) Our mental health has taken a hit because of the pandemic (including the restrictions, fear mongering, tribalism, etc), which prompts people to fill the void with buying gear.
4) So what's the deal with relics anyways?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

TheGASisReal said:


> 1) The supply chain issues are real.
> 2) Most of us are not laid off. In fact,* many of us have benefited financially from the pandemic.*
> 3) Our mental health has taken a hit because of the pandemic (including the restrictions, fear mongering, tribalism, etc), which prompts people to fill the void with buying gear.
> 4) So what's the deal with relics anyways?


I received a raise just before Christmas that was the biggest I've ever received in the 25 years in my field. My wife received a decent raise after Christmas and has been collecting additional pandemic pay on top of her salary through out this pandemic. As well she only has to go in to the office once or twice a week saving us gas for the out of town commute. So yes, the pandemic has benefit us financially.


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## alphasports (Jul 14, 2008)

guitarman2 said:


> Used prices are just as affected.


Yes but I'd rather pay a 20-30% increase on the price of a used guitar that's now selling for 60% of it's original retail plus tax, still way ahead used (in many cases at least). I haven't bought any brand new gear in years yet everything I've bought used is M-I-N-T ... Nothing better than a pinch-me deal on killer gear


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

cheezyridr said:


> how is it that people with no jobs, during a time when we have the worst inflation in 40 years, are buying more of EVERYTHING than ever before? how is it that we suddenly forgot, pretty much over night - how to ship items around the country? fender claims to be selling more than ever before, and yet they also have a major price increase. i won't be lining anyone's pockets to buy anything other than strings until all this shakes out. there's a major scam going on with all this.
> 
> do any of you smoke, or did you ever? did you notice that when you know you can't smoke later, you'll smoke more when you can? that's what is happening right now. they are artificially choking supply to induce panic buying. i'm not going to play along, and neither should you


Fender ran out of stuff that I’d buy in 1966 😂

If they had credit cards in the 1920’s that depression would still be raging.

That’s what’s happening now. People aren’t buying more stuff than ever with their own money. They are becoming indentured servants because they are euchred no matter what,


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Always12AM said:


> they are euchred no matter what



That is a pretty common sentiment right now. Why take a crap low paying job that is only going to get me the same place, only slower? Why be afraid of debt I can't pay when I've already got debt I can't pay? etc. etc.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Always12AM said:


> Fender ran out of stuff that I’d buy in 1966 😂
> 
> If they had credit cards in the 1920’s that depression would still be raging.
> 
> That’s what’s happening now. People aren’t buying more stuff than ever with their own money. They are becoming indentured servants because they are euchred no matter what,


that's an excellent point about carrying debt. i can remember being a kid, when most people didn't have a credit card. people who used one were seen as "not having the money to buy that item". it wasn't normalized the way it is now. people used to look at credit cards the way you might today look at taking out a loan. these days, tons of people don't even care what the interest rate is on the cards they use. i get the offers in the mail on the regular. credit cards from capitol1 and others with ridiculous interest rates buried somewhere in the fine print.

i stopped carrying cash years ago. i use the c.c. for everything. however, i pay the card off every 2 weeks to avoid the interest. it's easy to do with online banking. not having to mail a check to plano texas is very convienient


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

I wonder if you knew that you were checking out soon...would you roll up a large debt?


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

cheezyridr said:


> however, i pay the card off every 2 weeks to avoid the interest.


The card compay still makes a killing. The charge the retailer 3% of purchase to do the transaction. So they make money from both ends. Nice scam, you can even offer the card holder 1% in rebate points and still make out like a bandit. Very little labour involved as it's all computers doing the work.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Paul Running said:


> I wonder if you knew that you were checking out soon...would you roll up a large debt?


Depends if you have an estate worth sharing when you're gone. Your estate consists of your assets AND liabilities.

So, if you own SFA (sweet fk all) but qualified for a cc, from there it depends on your moral compass.


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

laristotle said:


>


More funny when you realize that so called "millenials" are almost 40!


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

cheezyridr said:


> that's an excellent point about carrying debt. i can remember being a kid, when most people didn't have a credit card. people who used one were seen as "not having the money to buy that item". it wasn't normalized the way it is now. people used to look at credit cards the way you might today look at taking out a loan. these days, tons of people don't even care what the interest rate is on the cards they use. i get the offers in the mail on the regular. credit cards from capitol1 and others with ridiculous interest rates buried somewhere in the fine print.
> 
> i stopped carrying cash years ago. i use the c.c. for everything. however, i pay the card off every 2 weeks to avoid the interest. it's easy to do with online banking. not having to mail a check to plano texas is very convienient


I still follow the "except for houses, if you have to buy on time, then you can't afford it" philosophy. That said, there are cases where it can pay off. For example: a car loan is 4 percent interest, but you are earning 10 percent on investments -- better to take the loan and keep the money in investments and make 6 percent.

With respect to credit cards, some say you should spend someone else's money, then pay it off. I don't follow that logic. I use them, but pay them off whenever I see a balance in my account.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

keto said:


> 'Pass it off to the customer,' billionaire Jim Pattison says of rising business costs - BNN Bloomberg
> 
> 
> As inflation drives operating costs higher, a prominent Canadian business leader says one solution is to pass those rising expenses onto customers.
> ...


I have no respect for this man at all, he gave some money back to SK recently for a children's hospital. He hides behind his religious convictions and makes amends with his faith by being a good man once in a while. Money buys forgiveness and a ride to the heavens. 

Let me be very clear, I am not a socialist or liberal.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

cheezyridr said:


> that's an excellent point about carrying debt. i can remember being a kid, when most people didn't have a credit card. people who used one were seen as "not having the money to buy that item". it wasn't normalized the way it is now. people used to look at credit cards the way you might today look at taking out a loan. these days, tons of people don't even care what the interest rate is on the cards they use. i get the offers in the mail on the regular. credit cards from capitol1 and others with ridiculous interest rates buried somewhere in the fine print.
> 
> i stopped carrying cash years ago. i use the c.c. for everything. however, i pay the card off every 2 weeks to avoid the interest. it's easy to do with online banking. not having to mail a check to plano texas is very convienient


The only two things I’m willing to take a loan for are education and property. I think it’s really good for your credit to use the method you use and I will be doing that at some point.

For now, all music related purchases are cash or paypal. I don’t ever finance or buy something on credit.

Fender makes quality instruments, but I don’t support a company that won’t send someone a schematic for a $4000+ Amp or a control plate for a $1500 MIM bass. Zero support from them anytime I’ve asked.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Jim DaddyO said:


> That is a pretty common sentiment right now. Why take a crap low paying job that is only going to get me the same place, only slower? Why be afraid of debt I can't pay when I've already got debt I can't pay? etc. etc.


That is exactly it.
It has been sheer stubborn will that has propelled me through my 20’s. I am determined not to let a snap shot of time in our economy impact my entire life. But I understand why a lot of people my age and especially older get fed up and throw caution to the wind.

I have found that things can even out and get better over time, but it requires a leap of faith or stubbornness to follow through with it.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

It's not just money. People are just tired of putting up with bullshit, mismanagement, nepotism/old boys clubs, etc.

_Industries with the highest rates of attrition from the research are apparel retail (19%), management consulting (16%), internet (14%), enterprise software (13%) and a four-way tie across fast food, specialty retail, research hospitals, and hotels and leisure (which all saw 11% rates of attrition).

But employers within each industry also varied widely in their turnover rates. In aerospace and defense, for example, Boeing lost 6.2% of employees from April to September compared with SpaceX, which lost 21.2% of its people. Sull says those differences can indicate how much company leadership, not just what's going on in an industry, plays a role in work culture and turnover._

This is the biggest reason people quit—and it's 10 times more important than pay


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Paul Running said:


> I wonder if you knew that you were checking out soon...would you roll up a large debt?


whenever that question appears, i always think of the jerry lewis movie "hook, line, and sinker". jerry lewis' doctor is doin his wife. he tells him he has a terminal illness, expecting him to kill himself. jerry decides he wants to go out with a bang. he goes around the world, living it up, spending all kinds of money he doesn't have. then he finds out the truth...



Always12AM said:


> For now, all music related purchases are cash or paypal. I don’t ever finance or buy something on credit.


i financed my bike, but only because i needed to build a credit history to enable me to buy this house. i had the cash i needed at the time, i didn't need the loan for the money. if it wasn't for needing a loan, i probably wouldn't have bought the bike in the first place. the car i drive is an 08, i paid cash for that. i took out a personal loan for $1000, but never spent the money. i just needed a payment history that was at least a year long, by the time i applied for a mortgage.
i otherwise agree, i don't finance anything unless i'm forced to.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Fender is out of guitars and PRS is about to unleash thousands and thousands of Silver Sky guitars.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Jim DaddyO said:


> It's not just money. People are just tired of putting up with bullshit, mismanagement, nepotism/old boys clubs, etc.
> 
> This is the biggest reason people quit—and it's 10 times more important than pay


agree. i have had a couple jobs that paid insane money, and i quit them for that very reason.
on the other side of the coin, i have had a couple jobs that i absolutely loved, and if i could have afforded to stay there, i would be there right now. i left because the job didn't pay enough to live on. in both cases, it wasn't my employer being cheap. in one case, i just didn't have the skills to make me worth more money to them. in the other, they weren't making much. it was a small, new company, and my boss wasn't making any more money than i was, but he worked 7 days a week, mostly 16 hr days. he was a great guy to work for, and he's still my good friend, 25 yrs after.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

mhammer said:


> Witness the current reduced car manufacturing because of a chip shortage.


People seem to forget that the chips they can't get for cars are the same ones that go into TV's, computers, Ovens, etc, etc, etc. and yes, even....guitar pedals.

I was listening to a podcast a little while back and Brian Wampler mentioned "There's a reason that every new release right now is drive pedals."


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I'm another one who's benefited financially from COVID. A few aches & pains for 7 days, then a windfall for 2 years - was worth it. But I'll need it to brave the storm coming.

As for Fender, I hand picked this cheapo Tele when I was out of town last week and couldn't take it with me, so I had them ship it. For chrissakes...didn't know UPS were relicers.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

cheezyridr said:


> whenever that question appears, i always think of the jerry lewis movie "hook, line, and sinker". jerry lewis' doctor is doin his wife. he tells him he has a terminal illness, expecting him to kill himself. jerry decides he wants to go out with a bang. he goes around the world, living it up, spending all kinds of money he doesn't have. then he finds out the truth...


Its actually not "Hook, Line and Sinker" Your referencing. The movie is actually called "Livin it Up" and is one of my favorite Dean Martin, Jerry Lewis movies.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> Its actually not "Hook, Line and Sinker" Your referencing. The movie is actually called "Livin it Up" and is one of my favorite Dean Martin, Jerry Lewis movies.


similar premise, but no. in your defense, i did get part of the plot wrong. i haven't seen this movie since i was a kid









Hook, Line and Sinker (1969) - IMDb


Hook, Line and Sinker (1969) on IMDb: Plot summary, synopsis, and more...




www.imdb.com


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

FatStrat2 said:


> I'm another one who's benefited financially from COVID. A few aches & pains for 7 days, then a windfall for 2 years - was worth it. But I'll need it to brave the storm coming.
> 
> As for Fender, I hand picked this cheapo Tele when I was out of town last week and couldn't take it with me, so I had them ship it. For chrissakes...didn't know UPS were relicers.
> View attachment 397636


Maybe they merged with United Airlines?


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

player99 said:


> Fender is out of guitars and PRS is about to unleash thousands and thousands of Silver Sky guitars.


Ya, all made in Indonesia. Try buying a new US made PRS right now.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

GuitarT said:


> Ya, all made in Indonesia. Try buying a new US made PRS right now.


their factory is an hour south of here. you can go there and buy whatever you want


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