# Has anyone here taken the Fractal or Kemper plunge?



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Well?


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

I've used digital gear almost exclusively for over a decade now. Got a Fractal AX8 a couple of years ago and eventually switched over to L6 Helix. I prefer Fractal's raw tone, depth, and flexibility. But, Helix' UI is far superior. I wrote a review of both a while back on this forum. I'll see if I can find the link.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Auditioned last night where the guitarist was using a Fractal thru a PA in a fairly small rehearsal room. Sounded real good, tho not real tubey. Said he'd had it about a year and would never go back, but he's an engineer so comfortable programming it.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I might someday, for a recording studio situation. Until then, not a chance. If I can buy a real tube amp, why would I want to pay more to emulate one? If my tube amp breaks, I can fix it. I can't say the same for digital gear.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

cboutilier said:


> I might someday, for a recording studio situation. Until then, not a chance. If I can buy a real tube amp, why would I want to pay more to emulate one? If my tube amp breaks, I can fix it. I can't say the same for digital gear.


The counter-argument is of course how many tube amps you now have in that 2U (or 3U) rack unit, plus all of the effects and signal chain options, the I/O options, the fact that you can put EL34's in a Twin, etc. Not to mention the weight and size .

I'm half Fractal - I use the FX8 mkII for all my effects in front of amps.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Budda said:


> The counter-argument is of course how many tube amps you now have in that 2U (or 3U) rack unit, plus all of the effects and signal chain options, the I/O options, the fact that you can put EL34's in a Twin, etc. Not to mention the weight and size .
> 
> I'm half Fractal - I use the FX8 mkII for all my effects in front of amps.


And the argument to that is, how many of those sounds do you actually need?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

butterknucket said:


> And the argument to that is, how many of those sounds do you actually need?


If you use one sound on your amp and never change any pedal settings its basically the same thing. Especially with. a $3k amp and a grand in pedals haha.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Budda said:


> If you use one sound on your amp and never change any pedal settings its basically the same thing. Especially with. a $3k amp and a grand in pedals haha.


Go all out and get a Dumble.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

butterknucket said:


> Go all out and get a Dumble.


In the axe fx iii yeah.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Budda said:


> In the axe fx iii yeah.


I would actually like to try both of them. The only thing that turns me off is the idea of editing on a tiny screen.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Budda said:


> The counter-argument is of course how many tube amps you now have in that 2U (or 3U) rack unit, plus all of the effects and signal chain options, the I/O options, the fact that you can put EL34's in a Twin, etc. Not to mention the weight and size .
> 
> I'm half Fractal - I use the FX8 mkII for all my effects in front of amps.


I play one amp, with <6 pedals. My tone is simple. I'm not the kind of guy that wants options I don't need or use. 

I have no argument for the size and weight, apart from looking cool. And looking cool is far more important than sounding good.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

butterknucket said:


> I would actually like to try both of them. The only thing that turns me off is the idea of editing on a tiny screen.


Last time I played out with my KPA, I had a little problem with the volume pedal not connecting at boot-up. I had to wade into a few menus to find the connection (not much of an issue as I've had it a few months and I know where the problem is likely going to be). 

But I could not do this without glasses, which I for some reason refuse to carry with me. I've never had this problem with my amps - a combination of being younger and only one level of controls to look through. I had to go out to the car and get reading glasses to make my way through the menus and find the issue. It took me longer to get the glasses than to sort out the problem, but I would've never found it without the glasses.

Now I have a set of reading glasses (in a metal tube) and a AA maglite in my KPA bag. My eyes ain't getting any better any time soon. It is just a reality of the technology. A steep learning curve but definitely some benefits, if you want them (they certainly aren't necessary - I got by just fine with 1 and 2 channel amps for decades).

One thing I'll never do is play on stage through FRFRs. I just prefer by far playing speakers sims OFF and through a guitar cab. My stage sound is virtually indistinguishable from the amps I have. I do use speaker sims through my FOH feed, but the soundman's gonna screw that up anyways. And the audience won't know the difference. I hope they just go ooo-la-la for the wide panned stereo effects - although I imagine the soundman has screwed them up too.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

I use both brands - Fractal FX8 with one of my tube amps, AXE FX II for recording and a Kemper Powered toaster with remote and an analog 1x12 cab.

All units work great - a good start would be with an FX8. Use your favorite amp with the FX8 and every possible tone available covered really well. The FX8 is a bargain imo - state of the art effects, switcher and looper. Used prices are low (less than some pedals!).

I’m planning to use my Kemper for some upcoming rehearsals. It sounds pretty amazing and a compact grab & go.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I don't think there's a loser in any of the big 3 platforms - and the remaining platforms continue to improve as well. As long as you know what you're getting into and want the advantages they provide, it is just another way to amplify an electric guitar. I don't see how this can be a bad thing.

Tube amp tech has peaked decades ago. There's very little ground-breaking news in that arena while there's still some room to grow on the digital frontier. You may never want it or need what it can do that tube amps can't. Maybe you will. It's just nice to have such good options.


Play what you love and love what you play. First world problems and all that. Oh yea, live long and pay lots of taxes, too.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

butterknucket said:


> I would actually like to try both of them. The only thing that turns me off is the idea of editing on a tiny screen.


All of the main units can be edited via computer. Line 6 has bluetooth (maybe Kemper too?) so you can edit from your phone instead of lugging that massive laptop from one room to another.

I learned how to edit on my FX8 because if things go sideways at a gig, I need to know what I'm doing. Axe edit is 100% better to use for editing though!


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Nope. I'm old school and prefer messing around with a few pedals to get my tone.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Just in the middle of transitioning from pedals to an FX-8. So far so good. If I can make this work it will be good to get off the pedal turntable. Even though it's been lots of fun.

I still prefer a real amp though.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

davetcan said:


> Just in the middle of transitioning from pedals to an FX-8. So far so good. If I can make this work it will be good to get off the pedal turntable. Even though it's been lots of fun.
> 
> I still prefer a real amp though.


That’s the beauty of the FX8 - keep your favorite amp and augment it with high quality effects.

I don’t use the overdrives in the FX8 as I’m quite happy with the Overdrive tones in my RedPlate amp which leads me to another great feature of the FX8: the Relays. I channel switch via the FX8. The switcher aspect is a gig’s dream - go from a clean with subtle chorusing effect to a screaming lead tone with delay by clicking one footswitch. Also, set up “scenes” ie presets for every song and go through a set list. Truly a fantastic unit.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Alex said:


> That’s the beauty of the FX8 - keep your favorite amp and augment it with high quality effects.
> 
> I don’t use the overdrives in the FX8 as I’m quite happy with the Overdrive tones in my RedPlate amp which leads me to another great feature of the FX8: the Relays. I channel switch via the FX8. The switcher aspect is a gig’s dream - go from a clean with subtle chorusing effect to a screaming lead tone with delay by clicking one footswitch. Also, set up “scenes” ie presets for every song and go through a set list. Truly a fantastic unit.


I've got the scenes down already. haven't ventured into relays yet but it's on my short list. I love both the clean and overdrive channels on my Egnater Renegade so it's an ideal candidate. It's got a complicated 4 button footswitch that works wonderfully and is very flexible so it's not a real requirement to use the FX-8, it will just mean carrying one less thing


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

I've had my Line 6 Helix for 2.5 years now and love it to death. I actually made money on buying it after selling my rig. I had way more invested in amps and pedals than the Helix cost, plus it takes up a LOT less space in my apartment, which my wife is thankful for. 

In terms of tone, after working with it for this long, I can confidently say that it's as good as any of the amps it emulates and I consistently sound as good (if not better) than the other guitarist I play with sometimes, who has a traditional tube rig.

In terms of flexibility/ergonomics, it's a no-brainer. The Helix comes out MILES ahead. Consistent tone, easy to use, easy to switch sounds, no tap-dancing, custom tones for individual songs, etc. etc. No more of those moments when you think "oh, you know what would sound really great on this track? A Vibe pedal. But I don't want to buy one just for this one track."


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I want someone else to buy me a Helix and then I'll be willing to give it a try,,. honestly I'd like a Kemper or Fractal but I feel like thats a lot to ask for from strangers


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

vadsy said:


> I want someone else to buy me a Helix and then I'll be willing to give it a try,,. honestly I'd like a Kemper or Fractal but I feel like thats a lot to ask for from strangers


You just need a loaner.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Budda said:


> You just need a loaner.


loaner doesn’t have the same ring. I’d like it to be more permanent


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

davetcan said:


> I've got the scenes down already. haven't ventured into relays yet but it's on my short list. I love both the clean and overdrive channels on my Egnater Renegade so it's an ideal candidate. It's got a complicated 4 button footswitch that works wonderfully and is very flexible so it's not a real requirement to use the FX-8, it will just mean carrying one less thing


You may need a MIDI box to work in replacement of the 4 button footswitch but that should be easily done. The guys at RedPlate made mine during the build of my amp and it’s a simple little box.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

I feel like digital is more flexible/practical in a lot of ways, but the frugal part of my brain just thinks, "Eventually that thing is going to be an expensive doorstop," where a vintage tube amp will likely retain its value (or appreciate) as long as it is functional.

But that is completely from a hobbyist viewpoint. If I was a professional and amp gear was a tool like a power tool is to a tradesman, then I'd be more inclined to be accepting of the tool's depreciation if it improved my daily workflow. 

Unfortunately/fortunately, I attach more emotional value to my musical "tools" than a pro likely would.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Alex said:


> You may need a MIDI box to work in replacement of the 4 button footswitch but that should be easily done. The guys at RedPlate made mine during the build of my amp and it’s a simple little box.


How would that be any different/better than the foot switch? I'm a complete idiot when it comes to anything midi.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

davetcan said:


> How would that be any different/better than the foot switch? I'm a complete idiot when it comes to anything midi.


The footswitch of the amp is replaced by the FX8. The signal from the FX8 runs through a MIDI box and relays the functions of the footswitch to the amp. Some amps work with the FX8 relays with no midi box but most don’t. I’ll try to load a pic.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Alex said:


> The footswitch of the amp is replaced by the FX8. The signal from the FX8 runs through a MIDI box and relays the functions of the footswitch to the amp. Some amps work with the FX8 relays with no midi box but most don’t. I’ll try to load a pic.


Could you not just use the fx8 midi ability?

I dont use midi so this is new to me too haha.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

here's the switch. From right to left - Channel - Effects - Reverb - Main2 (boost). FX, Reverb, and Boost can be assigned to both channels or either of them using the slide switches. Very nice and versatile footswitch.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

That setup would just take two relay channels. It’s not midi Dave.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Alex said:


> The footswitch of the amp is replaced by the FX8. The signal from the FX8 runs through a MIDI box and relays the functions of the footswitch to the amp. Some amps work with the FX8 relays with no midi box but most don’t. I’ll try to load a pic.


Here’s a couple pics. My RedPlate 3 button footswitch (that is not plugged in and not in use) and the interface or midi box replacing the 3 button footswitch. The midi box is connected via TRS cables to the 2 Relay jacks on the FX8 and the footswitch input jack of the amp. I would suggest contacting Egnater and ask him/them to recommend a vendor for the midi box. This is not an uncommon little thingy and you can probably find someone on GC that could build you one as well.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Alex said:


> The footswitch of the amp is replaced by the FX8. The signal from the FX8 runs through a MIDI box and relays the functions of the footswitch to the amp. Some amps work with the FX8 relays with no midi box but most don’t. I’ll try to load a pic.


Here’s a couple pics. My RedPlate 3 button footswitch (that is not plugged in and not in use) and the interface or midi box replacing the 3 button footswitch. The midi box is connected via TRS cables to the 2 Relay jacks on the FX8 and the footswitch input jack of the amp. I would suggest contacting Egnater and ask him/them to recommend a vendor for the midi box. This is not an uncommon little thingy and you can probably find someone on GC that could build you one as well.

View attachment 243322
View attachment 243324



davetcan said:


> How would that be any different/better than the foot switch? I'm a complete idiot when it comes to anything midi.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

Alex said:


> That’s the beauty of the FX8 - keep your favorite amp and augment it with high quality effects.
> 
> I don’t use the overdrives in the FX8 as I’m quite happy with the Overdrive tones in my RedPlate amp which leads me to another great feature of the FX8: the Relays. I channel switch via the FX8. The switcher aspect is a gig’s dream - go from a clean with subtle chorusing effect to a screaming lead tone with delay by clicking one footswitch. Also, set up “scenes” ie presets for every song and go through a set list. Truly a fantastic unit.


Exactly what I'm doing with a boss ms-3. Nowhere near as spendy as the axe but pulls off 4cm very well and no more tap dancing. 

Sent from my H3223 using Tapatalk


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## Rickenbacker198 (Jan 10, 2017)

My experience has been with a Kemper.,,
All in my opinion.

I use the Kemper all the time for recording, it’s an amazing tool for that.
Honestly it kills for most any tone you’d want , except very specific amp tones.
It has a hard time replicating certain things, like the exact compression on a high gain chord strike. Or the grain of a decaying chord in a distorted tone.
I bet 99,9% of people ( non players) wouldn’t notice, I do.
I usually record the main tracks of a song with a real amp then do overdubs with the Kemper to end up with a variety of guitar tones.
How else would that be possible without owing hundreds of amps to audition for the part!!
If the main sound of a song is more generic Kemper will work for the main tracks too.

Live I tried it.
And not just once , I went ampless for a few months.
It feels like an amp , responds like an amp and it sounds like an amp...
But it wasn’t as inspiring to play.
Something about it lacked the depth of the real amps I love.
When I went back to amps live , it was like a breath of fresh air. I was inspired to play more, extend myself more.

For messing around at home going direct into a cab is ok, the best use I’ve found is in combination with a real amp. You can really try out a lot of different tones to figure out what complements the amp.

My opinion is, great tool , some will be happy enough with it to sell off all their amps.
Mainly guys who aren’t as picky (set in their ways) as me.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

One great thing about digital units is the ability to get overdriven or cranked tones at TV volumes.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

"On [Genesis], after exhaustively micing up a dozen great amps in the studio, I actually chose to re-amp my signal using the Fractal Audio AXE FX III, which I preferred to all of the amps." -Devin Townsend
Check out the official video for Genesis from the album "Empath" out March 29, 2019







For the record, Devin has used everything from real amps to pods to more real amps to a Kemper/Fractal II hybrid system to this. He uses what he feels is absolutely the best for the current situation with no restrictions of limitations. The results, IMO, speak for themselves.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Man I like the message that Devin Townsend tune is portraying.


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## PBGas (Jan 14, 2017)

I sold a bunch of guitars over the past 3 years and scaled down quite a bit and picked up a few things.

I have both setups. I have a BE-50 and BE-212 that I use with an OX. Love every sound from it, especially when playing live. 

I also have an Axe III and an FC-6 to control it. I have had a couple of Kempers about 6 years ago, a Helix a couple of years ago and while they are good units in every way, I have had the Axe III now since May of last year. It is the one with the staying power. I love the sounds out of it, the flexibility and the ease of use with the new unit. FOH tones and recording are killer and running it through a nice FRFR is fantastic for monitoring when playing live. 

I could see myself eventually just keeping that and also using my pedalboard as a backup as it has the ability to go direct as well. I don't think I could ever sell the Friedman though, it is just an amazing sound amp in every way.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

For units like the Axe, how good is the amp modeling? I have only ever tried lower end modeling and most of the amp sims sounded the same to me.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

colchar said:


> For units like the Axe, how good is the amp modeling? I have only ever tried lower end modeling and most of the amp sims sounded the same to me.


Good enough that people sell their beloved tube amps


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

I can be a bit of a technophobe, but have toyed with the idea of making the switch. I like the idea of spending one amount and getting twenty classic amps for that price. I also like the idea of getting cranked tones at TV volumes.

While I like my 2203, I simply can't tap its potential at home. I am thinking about moving from an AC15 up to an AC30 despite knowing that I cannot tap its potential either. 

I would be far smarter to stick with the AC15, and I might also be smart to sell the 2203 and get a good modeling unit for roughly what I could sell my Marshall for (and sell the cab too, unless a modeling unit sounds good through a 2x12, in which case I would keep it).

I saw an Eleven Rack unit at my local L&M a couple of years ago for a stupidly cheap price. I should have jumped then.


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## Grasley (Aug 22, 2017)

I had a kemper a few times over the years. The Kemper sounds very good but with it being more technology based than old school tube amp I worry about when the next new thing comes out its value will plummet. Tube amps tend to lose value from new then even out to market value, where we can see gear like the first couple axe fx rigs are almost worthless. 

Another thing was I was trying to get the sounds out of my kemper that I could get through my tube amps..... Most people only use 3 amp sounds. Clean, low gain and higher gain for leads etc.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Grasley said:


> Tube amps tend to lose value from new then even out to market value, where we can see gear like the first couple axe fx rigs are almost worthless.


If have of new cost is almost worthless, sure. An axe fx ultra still goes for $800 the same as it did when the II XL was announced, give or take a good deal.

I saw a guy selling a TC Electronic 2290 rack for over $2k - no idea what they're worth, but that's an indication of age not necessarily meaning next to free.

And that axe fx ultra still sounds *good*. It's just not the latest.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

The earlier Axe rigs might not be worth much, but that is a bonus for home players who could happily play one of those units for years without needing anything else.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

colchar said:


> The earlier Axe rigs might not be worth much, but that is a bonus for home players who could happily play one of those units for years without needing anything else.


Yes the tones got better, but I would argue the improved UI of axe edit was a massive game changer. All of a sudden dialling things in became so much easier.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

OK, if someone like me (home player only, and not necessarily very skilled) was looking to switch which units should be considered? AXE? Helix? Helix LT? Headrush? What about an Eleven Rack? And can these be run through a guitar cab or is it better to get other speakers?


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

colchar said:


> OK, if someone like me (home player only, and not necessarily very skilled) was looking to switch which units should be considered? AXE? Helix? Helix LT? Headrush? What about an Eleven Rack? And can these be run through a guitar cab or is it better to get other speakers?


I run my AXE FX through an Apogee Duet , powered speakers and Logic Pro for recording. My Kemper runs through a 1x12 Cab. There are many more combinations and no right answer.

As I mentioned earlier, if you want to dip your toe in the digital pool, the FX8 with your favorite amp is a good start.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

colchar said:


> OK, if someone like me (home player only, and not necessarily very skilled) was looking to switch which units should be considered? AXE? Helix? Helix LT? Headrush? What about an Eleven Rack? And can these be run through a guitar cab or is it better to get other speakers?


Watch a couple of youtube tutorials on quick startup and see which UI seems most intuitive to you. Start with that one. They're all going to sound pretty good.

As a Fractal artist, a used AX8 is a good bet


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

colchar said:


> OK, if someone like me (home player only, and not necessarily very skilled) was looking to switch which units should be considered? AXE? Helix? Helix LT? Headrush? What about an Eleven Rack? And can these be run through a guitar cab or is it better to get other speakers?


I got my Helix LT used from someone on here and it is great for home use with the Powercab Plus. I was gonna go for the full Helix and Powercab, but this whole rig cost me less than just the Helix. After selling my big amp and most of my pedals and stuff, I made money. I don’t think I’d need the extra functionality of the full Helix, but if the scenario ever arose, I’d likely keep the LT as a backup or something. That said, I do have two small tube amps (AC4 and 57 Custom Champ) and a handful of pedals which I still use when the mood strikes me.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

@colchar if you sold your 2203 and bought an AX8, you would have money left over.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I love the 11 rack for recording but for live use it just never did it for me. I could perhaps have spent more time trying to make it work but I'm pretty impatient. Instant gratification is where it's at  That = a good tube amp. The Fractal FX-8 couple with a good tube amp is awesome though.

I still use an 11 rack as a recording interface, it is excellent for that purpose.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Budda said:


> you can edit from your phone instead of lugging that *massive* *laptop *from one room to another.


I totally get what you are saying. However "massive laptop" was good for my morning laugh. Thanks.


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

Budda said:


> All of the main units can be edited via computer. Line 6 has bluetooth (maybe Kemper too?) so you can edit from your phone instead of lugging that massive laptop from one room to another.


Line 6 Helix HX Edit doesn't have Android/iOS support, so no mobile editing there.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

jdto said:


> Line 6 Helix HX Edit doesn't have Android/iOS support, so no mobile editing there.


Thanks for the correction!


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Budda said:


> Watch a couple of youtube tutorials on quick startup and see which UI seems most intuitive to you. Start with that one. They're all going to sound pretty good.



After watching some videos last night I gotta say, I really like the interface on the Headrush.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

jdto said:


> I got my Helix LT used from someone on here and it is great for home use with the Powercab Plus. I was gonna go for the full Helix and Powercab, but this whole rig cost me less than just the Helix. After selling my big amp and most of my pedals and stuff, I made money. I don’t think I’d need the extra functionality of the full Helix, but if the scenario ever arose, I’d likely keep the LT as a backup or something. That said, I do have two small tube amps (AC4 and 57 Custom Champ) and a handful of pedals which I still use when the mood strikes me.



You're actually the one who first got me thinking about this stuff when you were posting about another unit over on our other forum!

I think I would keep my AC15 and pedals (only two - a Blues Driver and a Bad Monkey), and sell the 2203. I love the amp, but it is ridiculous for basement use.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

colchar said:


> OK, if someone like me (home player only, and not necessarily very skilled) was looking to switch which units should be considered? AXE? Helix? Helix LT? Headrush? What about an Eleven Rack? And can these be run through a guitar cab or is it better to get other speakers?


99% of the time at home I'm using my Helix with a pair of Sennheiser HD280 headphones. I've gotten pretty good at dialing-in tones with headphones on, but I'll do final checks on how things sound through my small Fostex PMo3 monitors and, eventually, through a keyboard amp to see what it's like with a larger driver at louder volumes. The point is, there are LOTS of options for how you choose to use it - for me (and my wife!), headphones are easiest.



jdto said:


> Line 6 Helix HX Edit doesn't have Android/iOS support, so no mobile editing there.


I WISH!!!!

However, with the changes to HX Edit from the earlier iterations, it's a lot stronger. I think Helix's UI is easiest/most-intuitive out of the 3 big modelers, but YMMV obvs. Line 6 is working on another HX Edit update which should incorporate some new features which will make it even easier to use!

One of the things I like best about Helix is that they have a Native available, which is strictly a computer-based VST. You can get all the algos and sounds of the Helix without buying ANY hardware (or deeply discounted if you _did_ buy the hardware). I've been meaning to pick it up, because it would honestly just be easier for me to leave the pedalboard in its case and just program via Native and update the pedalboard once in a while instead of having it always connected to the computer (which is in our living room and, therefore, taking up valuable small-Toronto-apartment floorspace!)


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## jdto (Sep 30, 2015)

colchar said:


> You're actually the one who first got me thinking about this stuff when you were posting about another unit over on our other forum!
> 
> I think I would keep my AC15 and pedals (only two - a Blues Driver and a Bad Monkey), and sell the 2203. I love the amp, but it is ridiculous for basement use.


I went all digital, sold it all and went back to tubes and pedals, then sold my big pedalboard and big tube amp and grabbed the LT and Powercab+. It was a learning experience, but I am happy with what I have now. The LT gets me all the sounds I like from big amps, while I can still grab my little amps for jamming or playing at home if I want to (the Champ or the AC4 are great for going to jam with my dad, for example).


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Grasley said:


> I had a kemper a few times over the years. The Kemper sounds very good but with it being more technology based than old school tube amp I worry about when the next new thing comes out its value will plummet. Tube amps tend to lose value from new then even out to market value, where we can see gear like the first couple axe fx rigs are almost worthless.
> 
> Another thing was I was trying to get the sounds out of my kemper that I could get through my tube amps..... Most people only use 3 amp sounds. Clean, low gain and higher gain for leads etc.


If someone only needs/uses 3 amp sounds, these solutions aren't really aimed at them, IMO. I used a bare minimum of 6 amp tones (2 channels + 2 levels of OD from pedals) gigging. I could do with less, but preferred at least that much variety.

This weekend I will be roaming through 17 different tones, including a banjo profile (for 2nd guitar on New Sensation). Even my 4 channel Roadster with pedals wouldn't cover this range, and I wouldn't get a banjo patch without a synth (or a six string banjo, I suppose, which would make the change to crunch guitar for the chorus impossible).

Add to the that, the ease with which my FOH feed is full stereo, something I would need a stereo rig on stage (or an Ox) to accomplish in the analog world.

These are tools for specific needs. Not everyone has the need - in that case it becomes a cure looking for a disease. My Kemper does things I could never do with my tube rigs. That said, I still haven't off-loaded any of my tube amps. Yet.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

High/Deaf said:


> This weekend I will be roaming through 17 different tones, including a banjo profile (for 2nd guitar on New Sensation). Even my 4 channel Roadster with pedals wouldn't cover this range, and I wouldn't get a banjo patch without a synth (or a six string banjo, I suppose, which would make the change to crunch guitar for the chorus impossible).


Totally agree with you, blah, blah, blah...hold up....banjo profile! Are you saying you're using a modeler to emulate a banjo sound???? Are you doing this via a Variax or something, or is it some other voodoo???


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

hollowbody said:


> Totally agree with you, blah, blah, blah...hold up....banjo profile! Are you saying you're using a modeler to emulate a banjo sound???? Are you doing this via a Variax or something, or is it some other voodoo???


Someone (or actually a couple of people) have profiled the banjo patch from a Boss synth. I just downloaded the profiles from the free site and picked the one that worked the best. It doesn't have the full features of the synth, just the settings as profiled. 

It isn't great and I don't think it would work as a feature instrument, but in a band mix and as a support instrument, it works OK. Close enough for rock and roll. Better than what I had before - a palm-muted bridge pup.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

High/Deaf said:


> Someone (or actually a couple of people) have profiled the banjo patch from a Boss synth. I just downloaded the profiles from the free site and picked the one that worked the best. It doesn't have the full features of the synth, just the settings as profiled.
> 
> It isn't great and I don't think it would work as a feature instrument, but in a band mix and as a support instrument, it works OK. Close enough for rock and roll. Better than what I had before - a palm-muted bridge pup.


What platform is this for, the Kemper?

I really want one of those Boss SY-300s!


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

hollowbody said:


> What platform is this for, the Kemper?
> 
> I really want one of those Boss SY-300s!


Yes, Kemper.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

High/Deaf said:


> Yes, Kemper.


What is the name of the profile? - cheers


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Alex said:


> What is the name of the profile? - cheers


One is called Kemper Banjo, the other is VG-99 Banjo. Both are by Ruppert.

As I said, they are far from perfect and wouldn't pass the Scruggs Test or anything. But they are better than a palm muted bridge pickup sound for the one application I have. I am sure, with some tweaking, you could get a better banjo facsimile with an SY300 or one of the earlier synths directly.


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## fatherjacques (Sep 17, 2006)

I use modelers since the introduction of the bean pod. I do not play out and could not play a real amp loud at home.

Until a month ago I was exclusively using software at home because my playing environment is a home studio. So my quest for tone has always been to get the best studio guitar sound. Not a live tone on a stage etc... 

I tried the REVV D 20 with numerous pedals and realized I was not a Pedal type of Guy LOL! I have also used real amps with Reactive loads many times.


I bought a brand new AXE FX 3 last week. I am a guy of 2 or 3 amp sounds so 263 amps is more than overkilled for my needs. Also give me a good delay and sometimes a good reverb and I am OK.

I can say that if somebody want an all in one solution including a good audio interface for a small Home studio the AXE FX 3 is the box to own.

I still prefer my Apogee for audio interface but the AXE FX 3 aidio interface and converters are very high quality.

I think you have to take these musical tools for what they are. Something to simplify your life and sometimes the life of other people when you are a professional musician.


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

I am really curious about all those modeler/multi fx since I have a Mesa TC50. The point is, I was always disapointed with the dirt sound of those modeler before but since I can get all the OD/distortion I want from the amp, the multi fx route is more interesting.

I am not using a lot of different pedals (delay, octave, reverb, phaser...) but I am the stupid guy who bought pedals just to try them out. Maybe this new sound if for me... Maybe.


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## fatherjacques (Sep 17, 2006)

Probably. Helix products for you. The drives are very good as well the amps sound.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Ti-Ron said:


> I am really curious about all those modeler/multi fx since I have a Mesa TC50. The point is, I was always disapointed with the dirt sound of those modeler before but since I can get all the OD/distortion I want from the amp, the multi fx route is more interesting.
> 
> I am not using a lot of different pedals (delay, octave, reverb, phaser...) but I am the stupid guy who bought pedals just to try them out. Maybe this new sound if for me... Maybe.


Rent an hx stomp or hx fx from l&m for a month and feel it out?


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Budda said:


> Rent an hx stomp or hx fx from l&m for a month and feel it out?


Could be a great idea! I always forget that L&M is in Québec now. I'll investigate!


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## hatspin (Aug 19, 2019)

Ti-Ron said:


> Could be a great idea! I always forget that L&M is in Québec now. I'll investigate!


Try it. The Helix is great.

The only essential trick is to set the high and low cut of the cab block to something realistic (~70Hz and ~6KHz). If it's got the latest firmware, I believe the defaults are now fine. In the older firmware you have to set it. You probably wouldn't notice the low end but the high end is really fizzy when that's not set properly.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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