# Buying my first PA



## Justinator (Jan 27, 2008)

So I've finally become coordinated enough to handle guitar and vocals at the same time and plugging a mic into a guitar amp just isnt doing it for me anymore. I've never had experience using/handling a PA system before and would like to know what parts make up a PA system, features I should be looking for, etc. Anything someone new to this should know. I dont need anything fancy, but at the same time I want it to be of good quality and still powerful enough to use at gigs in the future. What can you guys recommend for me, and what kind of price range am I looking at? I've seen a lot of "all in one" package deals but the wattage isnt usually that impressive and I'm worried I will have to upgrade before too long. I prefer to get what I need from the start instead of playing the buy-sell game.

BTW my budget is around $700


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Justinator said:


> So I've finally become coordinated enough to handle guitar and vocals at the same time and plugging a mic into a guitar amp just isnt doing it for me anymore. I've never had experience using/handling a PA system before and would like to know what parts make up a PA system, features I should be looking for, etc. Anything someone new to this should know. I dont need anything fancy, but at the same time I want it to be of good quality and still powerful enough to use at gigs in the future. What can you guys recommend for me, and what kind of price range am I looking at? I've seen a lot of "all in one" package deals but the wattage isnt usually that impressive and I'm worried I will have to upgrade before too long. I prefer to get what I need from the start instead of playing the buy-sell game.
> 
> BTW my budget is around $700


In order to have any hope of doing gigs with what you buy, I'm sorry to tell you that you'll have to increase your budget.

PAs require significantly more power than guitar or bass amps and that's going to cost more than $700.

Look at Yorkville Sound, Yamaha, Peavey. They all have all in one packages that will work well, but you should look at a bare minimum of 600 watts. 1000 watts is better.


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## MrDaner (Mar 20, 2008)

*First PA*

I am in a similar situation looking at my first PA.

Where could Justinator or I look to cut costs and still have some ability to upgrade later?

For example, would it make sense to get a nice mic, a passive mixer that has enough channels and features to meet future needs and maybe save some cash on a powered monitor/speaker say 200-300 watts? Maybe upgrade with larger power amp and passive speakers in the future? I would think you could even plug your mixer into a house PA or rent a higher powered amp and speakers if you needed more power for a gig.


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

check out the Yorkville site for PA tutorials........I found them to be very good...........you might be able to get into a 200W powered mixer and a couple of 200W monitors in your price range (yorkvillle stuff from L&M)....(no affiliation)........that might be enough for vocals in a coffee house size gig or a 3 car garage.......eventually you will want to upgrade........there was some good discussion about 2 months ago that originated with KW Guitar Guy...sorry, total 'puter noob.........don't know how to do links


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Someone here, maybe he'll chime in, runs his guitar through a GNX4, then a couple of powered speakers. I think the unit has a mic in, so if you are doing solo gigs or a duet (I think it will take 2 inst. + mic) you could go that route plus have drum/backing tracks to boot. A couple of powered speakers/monitors, and Bob's your uncle!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

If you can find some used stuff, you'll do better.

Buying decent quality PA gear new is not for the faint of heart (or wallet).

SP for a new Shure SM58 is around $150. alone. Sometimes you can get them on E-Bay for as little as $80 (plus shipping and handling).


Get as much power as you can. If you're deciding between 400 watts and 800 watts, get the 800 watt unit. 


Power is EVERYthing with PA stuff.

This is a link to the Yorkville Sound site. alas, no pricing
http://www.yorkville.com/default.asp


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Milkman said:


> Get as much power as you can. If you're deciding between 400 watts and 800 watts, get the 800 watt unit.
> 
> 
> Power is EVERYthing with PA stuff.


Agreed. I am running about 1200 watts for an 90 seat bar. You don't have to turn it up but you have the option too.


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Someone here, maybe he'll chime in, runs his guitar through a GNX4, then a couple of powered speakers. I think the unit has a mic in, so if you are doing solo gigs or a duet (I think it will take 2 inst. + mic) you could go that route plus have drum/backing tracks to boot. A couple of powered speakers/monitors, and Bob's your uncle!


You might be referring to me. Most guys with the GNX4 run it through powered PA speakers or FOH because of its onboard pre-amp. I line-in to the effects loop on a Crate PB 150 and then into 2 full-range speaker cabs. You are correct that the GNX4 has an XLR mic input with 48v phantom power, as well as 1 guitar/instrument input. There are 2 stereo 1/4" line-ins and stereo line-outs. The unit also has a built-in 8 track recorder as well as a compact flash card slot (MP3 player)and MIDI drum machine, not to mention over 200 guitar/amp/cab presets which can be edited through a USB port and X-Edit software on your computer. I guess having all these features is why they call it the "Guitar Workstation". You can really be a one-man show with this puppy if you are so inclined. I recently played at a charity event in the Detroit area and did a few tunes using backing tracks on the pedalboard. This was a full-house in a 100-seat room and people at the back said they could hear me very clearly (FWIW), tho I was probably only running at about 80% volume. There is a very good forum on this unit here, http://www.guitarworkstation.com/forum/ with a lot of very helpful people.

Something to keep in mind with this kind of guitar processor.... most guitar amps are optimized for the mid-ranges (eg. a Marshall stack operates in the range of 80 Hz-5000 Hz) whereas the GNX series of modellers run around 20 Hz - 20,000 Hz, the same range as a full-fidelity PA system.


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## Justinator (Jan 27, 2008)

Thanks for the detailed responses guys. Looks like I'm definately going to have to wait a month before I can make any moves here - cash is definately a big factor. I have an SM57 for a mic, I'm sure its better suited to micing an amp which is what I use it for but could I pull off vocals with it? Next month I should be up to $1000 for a budget, hopefully that will open my options a bit.

I am still unsure about what makes up a PA system, could somebody clarify this for me? Speakers, power amp, mixer etc... Are some of these things all combined into one unit or built into the speakers? I'm completely new to this


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

There are several ways you could go, depending on your situation. Are you planning on going solo or are you in a group? How many instruments? What gigs have you lined up and how big are the venues? Where do you realistically see your act/group going in the next year or two? If you can be more specific in answering these questions, I am sure the experienced people on the forum will have great advice as to what equipment you may or may not need? For example, I was in a 4-piece band (drums, bass, guitars) with 4 vocals and we miked everything through a 12-channel Yamaha stereo, powered mixer, into stage monitors and house speakers. It was more than adequate to handle all the 150-200 seat clubs we played at the time.


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## Justinator (Jan 27, 2008)

Currently I just jam with people, usually 2 guitars a bassist and drums. Thats all I need it for right now but eventually I would like to gig with it - same deal, 4 or 5 piece band. Not sure what kind of venues I'd look for to be honest. Once I'm out of highschool I'll have a lot more options.

Any opinions on somehting like this?:

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail.html?CNTID=545091&CTID=560071


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

I have a smaller street party gig coming up in July...we're going to use a 150 watt fender portable PA for vocals only........our amps won't be mic'd nor will the drums........I'm hoping it'll all jive together...it does in practice/rehearsal.....


Justinator - I'll let you know how it works out - it may be a viable option for you if that's the kind of gig you were thinking of playing


last year we played a Bday party outdoors - we did kinda the same thing except the vocals and keys went through a "Bose Stick" and the sound mix was plenty loud.....not REALLY well balanced -but close enough for rock and roll ...those Bose Sticks are kinda expensive though.

if I ever found myself playing something larger where the house system wasn't provided - I'd rent something suitable for that occasion - but realistically, that's not going to be too often for us.


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

Justinator said:


> Currently I just jam with people, usually 2 guitars a bassist and drums. Thats all I need it for right now but eventually I would like to gig with it - same deal, 4 or 5 piece band. Not sure what kind of venues I'd look for to be honest. Once I'm out of highschool I'll have a lot more options.
> 
> Any opinions on somehting like this?:
> 
> http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail.html?CNTID=545091&CTID=560071



I think that Yamaha system is a great starting point. If somewhere down the road you need to go bigger and start miking all of the band, etc., then it would make a great stage monitor system.


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## Justinator (Jan 27, 2008)

sounds good brown, good luck to you and your band! I've thought about doing something just on my property. I'm on a farm set back 800 feet from the road behind 5 layers of 50 foot tall fur trees with an old concrete bass from a corncrib I could use as a stage. Just gotta gather some buddies and it should be a blast!


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## Justinator (Jan 27, 2008)

excellent, thanks for the input BigDaddy


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

Justinator said:


> excellent, thanks for the input BigDaddy


Glad to help. :smile:


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

Justinator said:


> sounds good brown, good luck to you and your band! I've thought about doing something just on my property. I'm on a farm set back 800 feet from the road behind 5 layers of 50 foot tall fur trees with an old concrete bass from a corncrib I could use as a stage. Just gotta gather some buddies and it should be a blast!


yes - that does sound like a blast indeed....have fun!

we're playing a large charity event tomorrow eve......but all the pro sound stuff and a sound guy is provided - not being used to that - I'm a little nervous...just gotta sit back, play and let the sound guy do his job I guess


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Justinator said:


> Thanks for the detailed responses guys. Looks like I'm definately going to have to wait a month before I can make any moves here - cash is definately a big factor. I have an SM57 for a mic, I'm sure its better suited to micing an amp which is what I use it for but could I pull off vocals with it? Next month I should be up to $1000 for a budget, hopefully that will open my options a bit.
> 
> I am still unsure about what makes up a PA system, could somebody clarify this for me? Speakers, power amp, mixer etc... Are some of these things all combined into one unit or built into the speakers? I'm completely new to this


The Cartridge in a Shure SM57 is identical to that of an SM58. Same mic, different windscreen. Yes, a 57 will work nicely for vocals. You just have to make sure you don't overmodulate it by singing too close to the mic.



A PA is:

1. Source = mics and DI boxes
2. Mixer
3. Effects and outboard processors such as graphic eqs, delays, reverbs
4. Power amps
5. Speakers


That's the readers digest snapshot. If you want to mix frm a remote location (out front) you also need a snake, which is a multi cable containing XLR (mic cables) and returns (generally XLR but with the ends reversed).

Sometimes the power amps, and outboard processors are contained within the mixer.

Sometimes the power amps are contained within the speakers.


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

I'm certainly no expert on PA's, but my "if I ever get the cash together" dream has been to start with the monitor side and build from there.

A couple of good quality floor monitors, a power amp to drive them, a mixer with some basic effects built-in and a couple of good mics. 

Choose the monitors and power amp so I can easily move to four monitors when money allows. 

Choose the mixer with an eye toward mic'ing more and more of the band as money allows. 16 channels min, I would think. Make sure it's convenient to add several pieces of outboard gear down the road, and consider how well the board can do double-duty as a recording platform.

I'm thinking that would give me a great starter PA to use for rehearsals and augment with rental gear for shows (add speakers and a power amp for the house mix out to the audience; add a snake if we'll have a sound man).

Thoughts?


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

by george, Greg, I think you got it..........maybe buy some lotto tickets in the meantime...........lol.........I.ve been 2 years trying to justify a second power amp and a snake....lol............


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...starting out, i went to steve's in toronto and purchased a yamaha powered mixer, two JBLs with 15" woofers and horns, a JBL monitor with a 12" woofer and horn and later added a tapco stereo power amp to drive the monitors.

roughly seven years later, i still consider this $$$ extremely well invested.

-dh


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

david henman said:


> ...starting out, i went to steve's in toronto and purchased a yamaha powered mixer, two JBLs with 15" woofers and horns, a JBL monitor with a 12" woofer and horn and later added a tapco stereo power amp to drive the monitors.
> 
> roughly seven years later, i still consider this $$$ extremely well invested.
> 
> -dh


How much power was in the Yamaha, if you don't mind me asking?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Greg Ellis said:


> How much power was in the Yamaha, if you don't mind me asking?


I can't answer for David of course, but I've used a powered Yamaha mixer, with onboard effects that was 600 watts. Nice little unit as I recall.


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