# Contractor woes



## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

I hired a installer I heard of through word of mouth and that installs for a large wholesaler.

After pushing the job back two weeks by changing the start three times and one day no show, there is a time crunch to complete floors and trim for Christmas. This was mildly annoying and he assured it would be complete.

All along it was suggested that he would install and had a good feeling about it from aquantances reviews. I believe he just hired subs to do the work as he was probably over booked at the wholesalers. This was adding to my annoyance and probably the biggest catalyst for what comes next.

They finally get there, after starting late and make some progress, working from 9:30 am to 9pm. Also very annoying hours.

Now here's the kicker, they clearly fucked up the initial layout and ran the floors in a none sensical way, not starting at the longest straight wall in the hall as anybody with commen sense would know, and now every edge gets progressively crooked and when terminates at the hall, is a solid 2 inches out over about 30'. Around a few pony walls it is out 1/4" over 5' and you can see where the problem started, and their layout started twisting.

You can clearly see it and will be even worse once new trim is on. Also, his plank staggering uses all the repeating pieces staggered side by side so it ends up being a diaganol stripe of the same pattern and color which looks rediculous with vinyl planks. Also a very rookie mistake.

We had a hand shake agreement for a reasonable price that wasnt lowball, but not quite full wholesaler install rates so it's not like I just went with the cheapest guy.

95% of the floor is layed, and in my opinion it should be ripped up, and he can pay for the waste and labor OR he simply doesn't get paid.

Any advice on how to proceed, he is coming in the morning to check it out.



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## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

Yaaa...probably the best to chop him up and put the parts in a barrel...

Damn! Inside voice......


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

wait till he arrives , let him look at it . 
if he says it's sh*t , ask him to redo it properly (or correct the deficiencies) at his expense if he wants to get paid the agreed price.

if he tries to wiggle , tell him to simply remove the product and leave ... 
no $$$ cause it was a handshake and there's no contract and the job wasn't completed properly.

don't forget that his installers may be used to "commercial installations" and not residental construction practices. 
commercial is "get in , get it done the same day , get out , get paid and get on to the next job".


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Good luck. He’ll want to be paid for any changes so be prepared for that plus all of the materials.
Not sure how a handshake agreement works in your area but it likely won’t be binding. 
If you are hopeful on a reasonable solution, expect to fork over more cash, regardless if he is at fault or not. He can simply walk and cut his losses while you have an incomplete job.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

His 'installers' are bush league using the shittiest tools, not even having a portable table saw the first day that lead to this problem. If they actually followed their decided layout and had the tools and skill to follow it, it may have worked out. Even then I doubt it. For the long cuts they relied on shitty knives and shittier dollar store pliars struggling to snap the peice off each time. 

I should have turfed the guy after the no show, before still being late the next day. I had another installer lined up if he didn't show a second time but wanted to give him the benifit of the doubt. 



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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

LanceT said:


> Good luck. He’ll want to be paid for any changes so be prepared for that plus all of the materials.
> Not sure how a handshake agreement works in your area but it likely won’t be binding.
> If you are hopeful on a reasonable solution, expect to fork over more cash, regardless if he is at fault or not. He can simply walk and cut his losses while you have an incomplete job.


If he asks for either I'm cutting my losses, which is zero besides materials. 

He also picked up my material and delivered it. That part he got right, I'll pay the $200 delivery charge the distributor would have charged.

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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

all depends on who forked out for the materials ( no changes , just a proper job like you discussed )

if the contractor paid for the materials and the installers , he'll eat the job if he walks ( and any profit )
no need to pay if there's no contract.
the home owner will just have an unfinished job ... the next contractor will factor in removal costs .

if you went to a garage , the mechanic says " valve job will solve your engine noise problem ... $1800"
you sign a work order to proceed to fix the engine noise.
" if it doesn't solve the problem on the test drive ... you go back and say try again , the noise is still there , thank you for the free value job"
he gets one more kick at the can to fix the engine noise before you take it elsewhere.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

You can understand the odd little imperfection. It sounds like the guys that did the installation never did one before. I simply wouldn't pay for that kind of work. I install my own floors which I have done in a few houses I built or renovated. It's not rocket science. A measuring tape goes a long way in getting it right. If an amateur like me can get it right......................


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> You can understand the odd little imperfection. It sounds like the guys that did the installation never did one before. I simply wouldn't pay for that kind of work. I install my own floors which I have done in a few houses I built or renovated. It's not rocket science. A measuring tape goes a long way in getting it right. If an amateur like me can get it right......................


Exactly. I dont have the time to do it myself and would rather hire a pro, instead it was subbed out to guys that arnt good enough to be busy. 

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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

oldjoat said:


> all depends on who forked out for the materials ( no changes , just a proper job like you discussed )
> 
> if the contractor paid for the materials and the installers , he'll eat the job if he walks ( and any profit )
> no need to pay if there's no contract.
> ...


I purchased all materials but leveling cement.

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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Take lots of photos of the work. Total documentation.
Send email correspondence so you have a record of the correspondence. Tell him what you are not happy with, send him the photos. Record any phone conversations. Agree to nothing verbally. Everything in email or writing.
Ask him to correct the deficiencies. Ask him to give you in writing what he intends to do to correct the bad job.
Give him an opportunity to correct his shoddy work. Deny the same workers access to the house.

After that it depends what he does. But this way you have given him the opportunity to correct his mistakes. You have complete documentation of all correspondence and will be in good standing if you take him to court, or he takes you to court. Unless the mistakes are corrected, there is no reason to pay for the job. (I hope you have not paid him already.)

A good floor guy will most likely be able to salvage some of the flooring.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)




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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

player99 said:


> Take lots of photos of the work. Total documentation.
> Send email correspondence so you have a record of the correspondence. Tell him what you are not happy with, send him the photos. Record any phone conversations. Agree to nothing verbally. Everything in email or writing.
> Ask him to correct the deficiencies. Ask him to give you in writing what he intends to do to correct the bad job.
> Give him an opportunity to correct his shoddy work. Deny the same workers access to the house.
> ...


 
If it is premium floating vinyl plank, all of it could be reused and relaid. Hopefully it’s not glue down type


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

If it is so easy to do why did you not do it yourself ?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Distortion said:


> If it is so easy to do why did you not do it yourself ?


He already mentioned in another post that he didn't have the time.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Hey, don't you have a big tire fire out your way? Stay safe, and keep your lungs clean, brother.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Steadfastly said:


> He already mentioned in another post that he didn't have the time.


That is a typical reason for people that are inept at using tools. They are good at reading books and telling the world how to do things proper but can't wipe their own butt on a good day.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Unless you’re sure that’s the case that comment is completely unproductive. The simple fact is that he got a quote for a job and it was done unsatisfactorily. Who cares whether he could do it or not or whatever reason he chose not to? That’s hardly the point.

Besides, you don’t need to be a professional with 20 years experience to be able to see crooked or lifting planks or rough cuts or gaps where there shouldn’t be.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Before you are allowed to sub out your flooring you first need to prove to the flooring regulatory authority you can do the job yourself.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Distortion said:


> That is a typical reason for people that are inept at using tools. They are good at reading books and telling the world how to do things proper but can't wipe their own butt on a good day.


Hey, there is no need of that. You don't know what his situation is, nor his skills. If he says he can do it but doesn't have the time, we should take him at his word unless we know him personally. Even then, there is no need of such negative comments. It is better just to let it lie.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

player99 said:


> Before you are allowed to sub out your flooring you first need to prove to the flooring regulatory authority you can do the job yourself.


I don't know if that is true. The contractor who got the job, may need to prove his is competent but it is up to the original contractor to make sure he subs the job out to a competent sub.


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

I’m assuming it’s a fly by night guy if it’s a handshake deal. They’re the most likely to get upset when they’re not paid. 

I would tell the guy you shook hands with that the installers messed up and you want it done right. He’ll probably want to fix it to avoid negative online reviews at the very least. But if he’s willing and competent, give him the chance to fix it himself, he has a profit margin that can help eat the loss. If someone else does it it’ll cost both parties more.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

Distortion said:


> That is a typical reason for people that are inept at using tools. They are good at reading books and telling the world how to do things proper but can't wipe their own butt on a good day.


You're a clown.

I've been in the trades my whole life and I'm a ticketed plumber. I am not however a ticketed flooring installer so I decided to pay a professional, which I would also suggest to someone needing any plumbing done.

Speaking of plumb. We found the underlying issue after measuring for two hours, and finally got to the route of the problem with a plumb line. Found that the wall itself is two inches out and there is nothing I can do. I could get them to rip up the floor and start from the hall, but then every wall and ledge would be crooked. We could do some math and split the difference, but then the whole house will be only half as crooked. 

We resolved everything without an argument and he yelled at his guys for the pattern fuck up's and other little things but they were all resolved. Turned out his subcontractor was his father and barely speaks a lick of English! The helper that fucked up the pattern is brand new which is why he was doing the open areas. 

Thanks for the positive suggestions. 

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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

mike_oxbig said:


> I’m assuming it’s a fly by night guy if it’s a handshake deal. They’re the most likely to get upset when they’re not paid.
> 
> I would tell the guy you shook hands with that the installers messed up and you want it done right. He’ll probably want to fix it to avoid negative online reviews at the very least. But if he’s willing and competent, give him the chance to fix it himself, he has a profit margin that can help eat the loss. If someone else does it it’ll cost both parties more.


He's an installer for End of the Roll. He is not fly by night, just doing work on the side and probably bit off more than he could chew. I'm not the only one wrapping up projects before Xmas.

Just prepainted my trim, yay I can start installing it very soon with my lack of skills or tools using only assumptions and book learning. 

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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> Before you are allowed to sub out your flooring you first need to prove to the flooring regulatory authority you can do the job yourself.


'flooring regulatory authority'? Who and WTF is that? You can sub out anything you want.


Distortion said:


> That is a typical reason for people that are inept at using tools. They are good at reading books and telling the world how to do things proper but can't wipe their own butt on a good day.


This from a man who doesn't have the time. 


mike_oxbig said:


> I’m assuming it’s a fly by night guy if it’s a handshake deal. They’re the most likely to get upset when they’re not paid.


I know lots of guys who've been working for years that do handshake deals. In my community it's the way things are done. Everything from getting your lawn mowed to buying/selling a bike to building a house and all the sub-trades involved.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Glad to hear it was worked out "sorta ok" for the situation it was. Good luck with the other reno's.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

player99 said:


> Before you are allowed to sub out your flooring you first need to prove to the flooring regulatory authority you can do the job yourself.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

Dorian2 said:


> Glad to hear it was worked out "sorta ok" for the situation it was. Good luck with the other reno's.


Yeah. We're going to have to live with it.

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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

TheYanChamp said:


> You're a clown.
> 
> I've been in the trades my whole life and I'm a ticketed plumber. I am not however a ticketed flooring installer so I decided to pay a professional, which I would also suggest to someone needing any plumbing done.
> 
> ...


Something you learn real quick when working on houses - don't expect or even imagine that any wall is straight, or any corner is actually square - unless you framed it yourself. What you described is very common.......unfortunately


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> 'flooring regulatory authority'? Who and WTF is that?


If you don’t know, you can’t know.


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## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

Glad you got it sorted. I guess the body parts in the barrel would’ve been excessive.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

LanceT said:


> If you don’t know, you can’t know.


Don't need to know so it's really not important. Probably a millennial thing . Not covered by the ITA and non of the nail pounders I know worry about it.


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Electraglide said:


> '
> I know lots of guys who've been working for years that do handshake deals. In my community it's the way things are done. Everything from getting your lawn mowed to buying/selling a bike to building a house and all the sub-trades involved.


Either you live on a reserve or your town compares as such. The first two examples are obvious but if you “contract” someone to build a house or even a shed without a contract you’re an idiot and so is he.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

in my last 25 years working in the trades , I've only seen a few houses plumb and square
one belonged to an engineer ( done all in metric , including the materials and fittings )
one was a clock maker
one was a luthier.
and one built his by himself , took his time , did every thing except the wiring.

as far as being able to .....
can anyone tell if a musician is seasoned or just learning his instrument?
whether one is a good film maker or a wannabe?

I can tell if I like a song , or it's crap ... I don't have to be able to "do it better"

still nice to work things out amicably and walk away with a bit of respect on both sides.

there are plenty of really good trades people out there doing excellent jobs on the side .
the OP had already gotten several thumbs up from others that recommended him .
that's worth more than random dialing from the phone book .

a poor trade person gets filtered out real quick ... and the word gets back to his employer about sub standard work.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Don't need to know so it's really not important. Probably a millennial thing . Not covered by the ITA and non of the nail pounders I know worry about it.


I made it up. Sorry.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

TheYanChamp said:


> Yeah. We're going to have to live with it.
> 
> Sent from my H3223 using Tapatalk


There are no real good or bad floor layers. Some are just better at hiding their mistakes.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

TheYanChamp said:


> Yeah. We're going to have to live with it.
> 
> Sent from my H3223 using Tapatalk


The proper way to do that, would have been to measure the distances in the beginning and start in the middle so it would not have been so obvious when you got to the wall. The other thing done in those cases is to have the crooked edge end on a wall that wasn't so obvious, like behind a couch. Regardless, I am glad you resolved it peacefully. That is the best result.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mike_oxbig said:


> Either you live on a reserve or your town compares as such. The first two examples are obvious but if you “contract” someone to build a house or even a shed without a contract you’re an idiot and so is he.


You mean your word is no good? Aside from that, in this age where everything and everybody and their dog has a camera, a video of the handshake deal is good. BTW my "community" isn't the town I live in but the brotherhood of people I live and deal with......and it is world wide and old school and a lot of times we deal in cash. 


Johnny Spune said:


> Glad you got it sorted. I guess the body parts in the barrel would’ve been excessive.


Not that excessive, just wear gloves.


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## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

I’ve been involved with handshake deals worth considerable sums both ways. I’ve done them with companies/owners that have proven their word is good. And to me the word of those guys means more than a contract. I’m also involved in contracts and although I understand the necessity because of certain liabilities and finances I find the working relationship is worse and the quality of work not as good.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> The proper way to do that, would have been to measure the distances in the beginning and start in the middle so it would not have been so obvious when you got to the wall. The other thing done in those cases is to have the crooked edge end on a wall that wasn't so obvious, like behind a couch. Regardless, I am glad you resolved it peacefully. That is the best result.


I don't think so. Even if you split the differance the whole house would be crooked as heck instead one wall. 

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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

My line of work involves me spending 2-5k average and not collecting anything until the job is done. Too many horror stories of contractors walking with deposits, I don’t even ask.

I’ll do cash, i’ll Shake hands, but Papers are being signed. i’ll Rip them up after the transaction is complete if need be but I don’t trust anyone unless they’re 80+ years of age and have both their parents vouch for them.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

I've done handshake deals , but they always pay for the materials up front .... 
I go order the stuff and have it delivered and the customer pays however they want with the store directly.
if they ain't got the money to pay for the materials , sure as heck they don't have my money either.

I also give the client an "estimate" for materials and expected labour with an "expiry date" of 30 days , so they don't drag their feet.
had some call back months later , wanting me to start "monday morning"
threatening to sue cause they have a contract in hand for $$$$ so I'd better show upon on time.
always tell 'em it says "estimate" and it expired long ago . Sorry I'm too busy to do it now, call another contractor.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

Johnny Spune said:


> I’ve been involved with handshake deals worth considerable sums both ways. I’ve done them with companies/owners that have proven their word is good. And to me the word of those guys means more than a contract. I’m also involved in contracts and although I understand the necessity because of certain liabilities and finances I find the working relationship is worse and the quality of work not as good.


Nothing worse than someone only willing to pay the bare minimum instead of completing a project properly. 

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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mike_oxbig said:


> My line of work involves me spending 2-5k average and not collecting anything until the job is done. Too many horror stories of contractors walking with deposits, I don’t even ask.
> 
> I’ll do cash, i’ll Shake hands, but Papers are being signed. i’ll Rip them up after the transaction is complete if need be but I don’t trust anyone unless they’re 80+ years of age and have both their parents vouch for them.


I provide the materials including the building permit if needed and ask you how much you will charge to built the place.....say a 20'x20' shop from blueprints that I also supply. That's a firm price and not an estimate and you start on a certain day and your part of the job is done by a certain day. All you provide is the labour. If we agree on the price I give you half up front and then shake your hand. If you want papers signed I go elsewhere. You get the other half when the job is done and approved by me. If you want to sub it out that's your choice.....I don't care about that, I'm dealing with you. Any other trades, electrical, plumbing etc. I'll take care of when needed. It works quite nicely.


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

Well good luck to you. That practice will leave someone burned eventually, and all you’ll be legally able to do about it is complain on a guitar forum.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> I provide the materials including the building permit if needed and ask you how much you will charge to built the place.....say a 20'x20' shop from blueprints that I also supply. That's a firm price and not an estimate and you start on a certain day and your part of the job is done by a certain day. All you provide is the labour. If we agree on the price I give you half up front and then shake your hand. If you want papers signed I go elsewhere. You get the other half when the job is done and approved by me. If you want to sub it out that's your choice.....I don't care about that, I'm dealing with you. Any other trades, electrical, plumbing etc. I'll take care of when needed. It works quite nicely.


 How do you get all your equipment on a city of Calgary bus ?


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

mike_oxbig said:


> all you’ll be legally able to do about it is complain on a guitar forum


who said anything about "legal" ...

sure there's lots of things that can be done to even the score so they don't try it again . ... don't get mad , get even.

only been burned by a family member ( outlaw side ) ... learned my lesson. 
that's the reason for them buying the materials and if at any time they miss a milestone payment , the job stops till they catch up.

in the meantime , pickup all the tools and it was off to the next job on the list and they could wait till I was free again.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Distortion said:


> How do you get all your equipment on a city of Calgary bus ?


I don't. That's why I hire other people. If I have to do any work I borrow my son's truck. Trailer too if I need to take the compressor and lathe. I can do the work and have all the tools and I have the time.....I just don't want to anymore. I just work on motorcycles now and then. Plus the shop won't even be in Calgary.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mike_oxbig said:


> Well good luck to you. That practice will leave someone burned eventually, and all you’ll be legally able to do about it is complain on a guitar forum.


Who said anything about "legal".


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> have all the tools and I have the time.....I just don't want to anymore


 ahhh ... same here 

if it's summer I might tackle some IF I feel like it , but once the weather turns cold , forget it .

those days of up at 5 , 1 hr drive to work for 7 AM and driving in all those snowstorms ... are just a painful memory 
I'm doing my bit by retiring and letting the younger generation have my spot in the grinding wheel.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> ahhh ... same here
> 
> if it's summer I might tackle some IF I feel like it , but once the weather turns cold , forget it .
> 
> ...


I still get up between 5ish and 5:30ish but the 45 minute drive in the truck to drive 7km is a memory. If it's in the summer, I'm usually out riding or working on a bike. I'm retired, don't care if the job I did gets done anymore or not and for the most part a lot of the younger generation can go screw themselves. Will I show someone how to do a job I used to do? Only if she's willing and legal.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

never was a morning person . 
but ya had to, if you wanted food on the table and a steady job.

later found out, screw the regular job ... made more money by myself ( and easier too ) 
starting hours were now after 9 AM and finished before the 3:30 rush hour ( shorter days ), with a lot done from home 
if doing IT from home , 9 - 5 was ok in my pajamas and slippers ... or do a 4 month contract in 5 weeks and spend the rest fishing.

doing certain "trade work" , I built some special tools to do those in less time. 
The other guys took over 1 hr to do one job , a "tool" cut it down to under 7 minutes. ( to rework the mistakes the shop made)
they got 6-7 units reworked a day , the tool did 30 without me breaking a sweat.
when I left there , the company demanded I return the "special company tools"
told 'em they were mine from before I started there , not "company supplied" and to go build their own if they wanted some.

if you're good and have the right tools , you're miles ahead of the masses.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> never was a morning person .
> but ya had to, if you wanted food on the table and a steady job.
> 
> later found out, screw the regular job ... made more money by myself ( and easier too )
> ...


You might be miles ahead of the masses but it usually doesn't make much difference, time wise. If you're good and have the right tools it does make a difference quality wise. I tried working for myself and decided that other people could have that headache. Went back to working graveyard for about a year and then swing.....morning, afternoon and then graveyard (a week at a time) for about a year. I used to make my own tools 'cause the factory made ones cost too much or were hard to find, had nothing to do with making the job go faster. To me a job was just a job and a 'legal' way to get money. There are other ways to make money fast if you want to go that way but they do have draw backs.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

some tools were just as easy to make , others were impossible to buy or get , the rest were just to make the job easier on me . 
repeat "easier on me" , not the company .
when I left , they came with me to the next job ( or got modified for another use )

working for myself was the best thing I ever did ( I like me as a boss ) 
more money in my pocket , and more time for myself too ... no need to ask for time off.

all contracts stated I work my own hours as long as the milestones were met. 
all changes to the contracts required a renegotiation and a new written contract . (non of this job scope creep)
at any time , either party could terminate in writing if disagreements arose ... ( with a clause they had to pay immediately up to the date of terminating the contract )
if they were calm and reasonable , we could work things out
they could howl and yell all they wanted , I would just say "OK , give me my cheque , I'm out of here" ( the written termination was always in my case )
and on to the next job that was lined up.

BTW , get a good lawyer to go over any contract BEFORE you sign.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

That's why you work for someone else......they worry about contracts. As far as lawyers go, the less I have to do with them the better.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> That's why you work for someone else.


not quite , other companies hire my company to do things they can't.

it only takes a few trips to the lawyer to find out what should and shouldn't be in a contract ( make sure you are the screwor not the screwee )

if everyone plays nice and by the rules , everyone is happy 
but try to $%^&* me over and the contract comes into effect immediately ... pay up, buddy, and I'm out of here.
( and don't call me again when the rest tell you to $%^&* off too ) .... 

the best $$$$ were the ones where the first contractor had #$%^ up and left ... 
sign in my company door 

contract rates depend on several things:
brand new contract $$$$
if someone else started it ... 2 X $$$$ to finish it
if you started it and failed ... 3 X $$$$ 

once I've done a few contracts with most ( and everyone is on the same page ) , I didn't hesitate to do a handshake deal.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

You work for yourself and I'll work for someone else and at the end I figure I'm better off. 4:30 rolls around and I'm gone. I'll be back on Monday.....maybe Tuesday. No worries about contracts and lawyers and other BS and there's always work at a livable wage. Pays the bills, puts food on the table and cash in my pocket. The toys I want are in the yard and their paid for. If it comes to the point of $%^&* a contract I didn't sign and a lawyer ain't gonna help you much. You gonna take me to court? You ain't gonna get much if anything.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> You work for yourself and I'll work for someone else and at the end I figure I'm better off. 4:30 rolls around and I'm gone. I'll be back on Monday.....maybe Tuesday. No worries about contracts and lawyers and other BS and there's always work at a livable wage. Pays the bills, puts food on the table and cash in my pocket. The toys I want are in the yard and their paid for. If it comes to the point of $%^&* a contract I didn't sign and a lawyer ain't gonna help you much. You gonna take me to court? You ain't gonna get much if anything.


I thought you were retired. Something don't add up %h(*&


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Distortion said:


> I thought you were retired. Something don't add up %h(*&


I'm now retired so I do what I want, when I want. Boredom is a bitch. Actually I've "retired" a few times over the years. If I go back to work full time or even part time it will be for someone else as I described and what I've described is the way I've worked all my life. As far as the #$%^&* contract goes, that's someone doing work for me. I pay you cash to do something, 1/2 up front. If something goes wrong I won't pay you at the end of the job unless it's fixed to my satisfaction. You can fix the job or take me to court to try and get your money but that won't do you any good. On paper I don't have much.....never did except for a vehicle or two.


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## 10409 (Dec 11, 2011)

In the spirit of Christmas I won’t reply because the word douchebag seems awfully unfestive


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

retired completely (for the 3rd time) ... boredom has yet to set in  still fishing and dirt bikes .

as far as contracts, I wasn't afraid to turn down a job that was too demanding ( or over my head ) ... why risk it for a few yen / dong / CYN?
there was plenty of work out there that was easy pickings.

if anyone low balled a job , I simply passed ... if they asked why , "cause you obviously can't afford me". 

BTW , just because a person pays 1/2 up front and the balance upon final completion of a good job , it doesn't make them bad .
just smart enough to let the contractor know they have to complete their end of the deal before getting paid.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

No but it is a douchebag move if someone takes you to court, wins a judgement and you still don’t pay because “on the books” you don’t have much, which is what he was suggesting.

Then again there’s so much shit talk and general douchebaggery comments from a handful of members here that it starts to become white noise after a while.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

when that happens , in court , just demand a final payment date in the decision ... and failing to pay puts them in contempt of the court order.
no more chasing them , just let the court know and they'll be on their way back in front of the judge ... come up with the $$$ or spend some time "playing inside".
amazing how fast they can get it scraped together 

agreed, not having the final payment money can make one a DB if it's done on purpose.

but enough of this ... 

most DB (contractors and people) soon have their name passed around and eventually no one will deal with them.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

oldjoat said:


> BTW , just because a person pays 1/2 up front and the balance upon final completion of a good job , it doesn't make them bad .
> just smart enough to let the contractor know they have to complete their end of the deal before getting paid.


why pay anything up front? Seems like potential trouble. Pay something when something gets done or delivered.


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## sillyak (Oct 22, 2016)

I've only hired a contractor twice in my life. Once to lay a floor (I pre bought materials), once to build a fence (all contractor supplied materials.)

Both times buddy came out, gave me a quote. I agreed on it, settled on timeline and shook on it. Both guys did a great job and I plopped a stack of cash in their hand after a final inspection. 

Easy


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

Wow. Thanks for the trainwreck pissing match boys. 



They finished Sunday and did a great job by the end. Sadly it wasn't an easy road. 

Saturday night 8pm they layed the nosings for the stairs with PL and brads and then guaranteed they'd be there 9am sharp Sunday to finish the stairs. 

I went down to check their work and do laundry about an hour later and quickly looked back and saw the disaster right away. Nosings were out to lunch. 3D fucked. 

I'm just happy I went down and managed to catch that or it could have been a huge Pita for them and me. I had to wedge them and force them up or down as the glue continued to set. 

Final product is decent though. I had all my trim prepped and the saw on stand ready to go.

Now ask how happy I am to find out that my Dewalt 12" compound mitre saw is hooped when I really need it.

I guess Santa and the in laws will have to wait for new years! 





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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

sillyak said:


> I've only hired a contractor twice in my life. Once to lay a floor (I pre bought materials), once to build a fence (all contractor supplied materials.)
> 
> Both times buddy came out, gave me a quote. I agreed on it, settled on timeline and shook on it. Both guys did a great job and I plopped a stack of cash in their hand after a final inspection.
> 
> Easy


Same. The other was to pay a sparky to crawl through my attic because there is no way I will.

I usually supply aswell. The sparky stole 45' of insulated venting from me but I'm still glad I didn't have to be up there.

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