# genealogy of overdrives



## Solaceguitars (May 3, 2010)

Anyone come across a "family tree" of overdrive pedals online? I was searching around without much luck. 
I thought it may be cool to see how things have branched off over the years (possibly even more abundantly in recent years) from humble beginnings of D+ / OD-1/ TS808/ RAT/ ect..
Anything like this exist?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I've never seen one. I can certainly tell you about what a great many pedals are derivative of, but I know of no such tree posted around. One of the better, if not best, sources of info for anyone hoping to construct such a tree would be the Effectsdatabase site, since it often lists "jobber" pedals; i.e., the same pedal manufactured under contract and under a different product name.

Certainly the biggest explosion in pedals in general, came with the availability of the 3PDT stompswitch. It's not that the switch is absolutely necessary, but:
a) people had come to expect a status LED on the various e-switched commercial pedals from Boss, DOD, Yamaha, etc., particularly as the size of pedalboards grew and players needed to keep track of what was on and off, so any switching needed to include a status LED to be commercially viable;
b) one can switch a pedal "off" and have a status LED using the older DPDT stompswitches, but unless one completely removes a pedal from the signal path OR includes a suitable buffer, use of a DPDT switch tends to load down the signal, so complete bypass switching and status LED required a 3rd set of contacts;
c) e-switched pedals that used cheap momentaries also required a certain kind of chassis design to accomplish that; something which would be within the financial capability of bigger companies, but until very recently well outside the pockets of the many dorm-room builders that populate the boutique world. 

Since any doofus with a $70 drill press can machine a Hammond box for a stompswitch, the availability of 3PDT switches made if possible for small-scale builders to enter the fray. Throw the easy online availability of schematics and modification ideas for well-loved pedals intot he mix, and you have a recipe for an explosion of pedal-builders. Combine that with the fact that probably 95% of guitar players buy a distortion of some kind as their first pedal, and you have enough market to divide amongst hundreds, if not thousands, of builders.

So, what you can expect is that a "family tree" of overdrives is a feasible project if one wishes to cover only that period up to *maybe* 1990. After that, it starts to become a major project that would not be feasible by one person alone.


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

Basically, if we're strictly talking Overdrive pedals (not Fuzz, not Distortion, not Muff), there are two pedals that started it all. 

The Ibanez/Maxon TS808/TS9 : Symmetrical clipping
The BOSS SD-1: Asymmetrical clipping

Everything that came after these two pedals have been a variation on the theme with some exceptions, like the Crowther Hotcake, which is a unique design.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

LydianGuitars said:


> Basically, if we're strictly talking Overdrive pedals (not Fuzz, not Distortion, not Muff), there are two pedals that started it all.
> 
> The Ibanez/Maxon TS808/TS9 : Symmetrical clipping
> The BOSS SD-1: Asymmetrical clipping
> ...


That's helpful.


Perhaps someone can expand on this and categorize some of the more well known ODs into one group or the other.

I have an OCD, an xotic BB+, and will pick up a Timmie tomorrow.

Symetrical clipping or asymetrical?


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## LydianGuitars (Apr 18, 2013)

The Fulltone OCD is Assymetrical but uses two MOSFETs along with 1 diode vs 3 diodes. The effect is similar but it is a little different from most ODs out there. 

I'm not familiar with the BB+ but it doesn't look like it falls under the "OD" category. As for the timmie, to me, that means a coffee


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The first asymmetrical overdrive made by Boss was the OD-1, released in late 1977. It used a fixed tone setting (C4 created a treble cut), but adopted the same strategy as the TS-808 and its Maxon predecessors of reducing the bass in the clipping stage to yield a more consistent degree of clipping across the fingerboard via R6 and C3 (same numbering in each schematic; what are the odds!). 

I can't tell if Maxon beat Boss to the punch. I know that the earliest Maxon distortion/overdrive-type pedals used diodes going to ground, like the MXR Distortion+ did, rather than diodes in the feedback loop as you see below. The two approaches might seem related but have some implications. Keep in mind that the diodes conduct when reaching their forward voltage. When going to ground after the gain stage, the gain stage is allowed to go as high as you set it, and the diodes clip that off at the knees. When the diodes are in the feedback loop, they never really let the gain go very high, turning into essentially zero-ohm resistors once the signal is high enough. This results in a somewhat smoother clip, compared to the slightly harsher diodes to ground.

The Analogman King of Tone gives you the option to use either approach to clipping, or both, and they make an audible difference in sound. Boss's use of 3 clipping diodes, compared to Ibanez/Maxon's use of 2, yielded a slightly more open sound, with a little more dynamics, and a little more volume, produced by having the clippping threshold be a little higher for one half of the signal.

The use of diodes to ground was pretty much the default strategy, though, for the majority of overdrive makers throughout the 70's.


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## Solaceguitars (May 3, 2010)

I found this on the JHS webpage,http://www.jhspedals.com/tech-articles/#pedal
I guess half the family tree could be made from this alone, if release dates from these makers could be found
"Here is a list of pedals that all have one thing in common: their design and tone is much like that of a typical Tubescreamer circuit…"


Addrock Not So Ol’ Yeller
Addrock Ol’ Yeller
Aramat Green Machine
Arion MTE-1 Tubulator
Banzai Fireball II
BBE Greenscreamer
Biyang OD8-3
BJF Little Green Wonder
Bonzai Fireball 3
Boss OD-1
Boss SD-1
BrownTone Hoochee-Mama
Burris Boostiest
Clark Gainster
Clay Jones OD
CMATMODS Signa Drive
Cusack Screamer
Danelectro Fab Overdrive
Dubtronics Tubescreamin’ &ndash; out of production
Digitech Bad Monkey
Foxrox Zim
Fulltone Fulldrive (1 &amp; 2)
Goudiefx TS-808 +
GFS Greenie
HBE Power Screamer
Ibanez TSL
Ibanez TS5
Ibanez TS7
Ibanez TS808
Ibanez TS9
Ibanez TS9DX
Ibanez TS10
Jacques Overtube
Jacques Tubeblower
Landgraff Dynamic Overdrive
Lapido Pride and Joy
Lovekraft Mojo Drive
Lovepedal Eternity
Lovepedal Kalamazoo
Maxon OD-808
Maxon OD-9
Maxon SD-9
Maxon ST-9
Maxon ST-01
Menatone Red Snapper
Menatone Blue Collar
MI Audio Blue Boy
MI Audio Blues Deluxe
MI Audio Blues Pro
MJM Blues Devil
MJM Phantom Overdrive
MMFX Tube Killer
MohoMods Multi-Screamer
Musician’s Junkyard Screamer
MXR GT-OD
MRX Zakk Wylde ZW-44
Nobels OD-X
N.O.C.3 Pure Drive
OLCircuits Mint Condition
Onerr Carbon-x
PedalMan 818 Pro
Pedalworx Tejas Overdrive
Pedalworx Texas Two Step
Retro-sonic 808
Reverend Drivetrain II – out of production
Rodenberg 828
Rogue ODV-5
Shannon Overdrive &ndash; out of production
T-Rex Alberta
T-Rex Moller
Toadworks Texas Flood
TC Jaugernig’s DGTM
Tone Freak Abunai 2
Visual Sound Double Trouble
Visual Sound Jekyll &amp; Hyde
Visual Sound Route 66 (overdrive side)
Visual Sound Route 808
Voodoo Lab Sparkle Drive
Vox V810 Valve-Tone
Way Huge Green Rhino
Xotic BB Preamp
XTS (Xact Tone) Precision Overdrive
"The scary thing is that this isn’t all of them…I will add more as I remember or discover them."


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Ironically, as long as that list seems, it doesn't cover it all. Go to places like Musictoyz and you'll see even more.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

LydianGuitars said:


> The Fulltone OCD is Assymetrical but uses two MOSFETs along with 1 diode vs 3 diodes. The effect is similar but it is a little different from most ODs out there.
> 
> I'm not familiar with the BB+ but it doesn't look like it falls under the "OD" category. As for the timmie, to me, that means a coffee


The BB+ is a dual overdrive. 

The Timmie is made by Paul Cochrane. I've never tried one but I hear good things. It has a switch to change between symetrical and asymetrical clipping.
http://guitargear.org/2011/05/02/gear-review-paul-cochrane-timmy-overdrive/


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## elliottmoose (Aug 20, 2012)

Boy, I applaud the man (or woman) who takes on this family tree. It could end up looking like the royals (lots of 'the inbreeding' happening) or perhaps a rabbit's family tree: one day there are two, the next day 27 turn up to eat your veggies!

Solaceguitars: you've included distortions but excluded fuzzes from the tree: mistake or is there a reason why crazy Uncle Fuzz didn't make the tree?


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## Solaceguitars (May 3, 2010)

^ great point elliottmoose, lets not forget about fuzzes, they have the core bloodline AND humble beginnings 
Perhaps we can get Stephen Fry to narrate how these different breeds of Clipping have mated and evolved for decades....


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

elliottmoose said:


> Boy, I applaud the man (or woman) who takes on this family tree. It could end up looking like the royals (lots of 'the inbreeding' happening) or perhaps a rabbit's family tree: one day there are two, the next day 27 turn up to eat your veggies!
> 
> Solaceguitars: you've included distortions but excluded fuzzes from the tree: mistake or is there a reason why crazy Uncle Fuzz didn't make the tree?


Well, the thing is, this "tree" shares a lot in common with the way that Fender markets their Strats. Make the headstock a little bigger and it's THIS "model". Make the neck profile a little rounder or underwind the pickups and it's THAT "model". Make the dot fret markers a different shape and it's another model again. Ultimately, these are really just mods. And a great many of the assorted TS/OD-1 derivatives are basically that, a mod here and there depicted and marketed as a different product. In most instances, these are just custom tailorings to suit a particular rig, and really compensate for the fact that the pedal only has a couple of knobs. 

Last night I was playing through a TS clone I had made with 3 silicon and one Schottky clipping diode and a higher value cap in the clipping stage, giving a slightly fatter sound with the slightest bit of asymmetry. So, almost a Timmy, but not quite. Is that my modded TS or a different pedal? I tell you, once you know how to tweak these things, it becomes hard to take the product differentiation quite as seriously. And the ad copy accompanying it doesn't really help.

If a person wants all of that and more, they can always make themselves one of these: http://www.beavisaudio.com/projects/ScreamerLab/


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## Solaceguitars (May 3, 2010)

mhammer said:


> derivatives are basically that, a mod here and there depicted and marketed as a different product.


Great point mhammer,
perhaps if the chart were to show benchmark progresses, we could inject a bit of whistle-blowing to some makers that may have been trying to cash in on a sound that we thought was far too similar to a predecessor? However; the debates would rage out of control. Perhaps this is why it has never been done


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I have no desire to "blow the whistle" on anyone. Besides, very often the fault is not theirs. When retailers use the vague misleading ad copy provided by pedal makers (and who ever said that a person who knows how to mod also knows how to write good ad copy?) without any question or reference to what goes on under the hood, and so do magazines, why would we heap all blame on the pedal maker?

We've had lengthy debates about what is truly "design", how original contemporary pedal designs are, and all of that, ever since I joined my first gear-related newsgroup in 1991. Hasn't been resolved or changed a thing. And as far as a great many musicians are concerned, if it sounds the way they imagine and want it to sound, they're happy and don't really care about what's inside. And I don't blame them

In many respects unless it is open-source hardware or software, or has every conceivable bell and whistle, no pedal is ever really "finished". The manufacturer has decided it's time to release it, and makes decisions about whether any subsequent design changes (especialy reductions in parts...which is why you'll often see circuit boards with blank spaces) might be needed or advisable. They might change it, but they might not, and simply decide that 3 knobs is as much flexibility as any player wants or needs, and they stick with that for the next decade. They might "extend" the design by means of internal trimpots or jumpers, but this ends up being more trouble than its worth sometimes, since you have to _explain_ to people how to use them, and not all musicians are that tech-savvy.

EHX has had several issues of Big Muffs over the years, changing transistors, and component values to alter the tonestack and stage gain, etc., but not the basic design (with the sole exception of the op-amp based Big MUff). You could pretty much use the PCB from a 1976 BMP to build a Russian BMP or whatever the current issue is. They could have provided switches, trimmers,socket, jumpers, and so on to let users customize those component values, but decided to stick with one basic design. In many ways, the pedal is not "finished". It then becomes up to after-market folks to take the basic design a little farther. Whether such mods are worth the cost to the consumer is another matter. Just keep in mind that the pedal-makers who simply extend an existing design a bit, and charge you $225 for what used to be a $39 pedal (see http://hammer.ampage.org/files/1981_E-H_pricelist.gif ) have to survive on what they sell, so they price pedals not in relation to what the pedals cost to make, but in relation to what they need to pay rent, food, health insurance, gas, food, and web-hosting.


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## elliottmoose (Aug 20, 2012)

Great points mhammer! Yeah although clones have become quite rampant, I quite like the diversity that has come from it. After all, some (if not all) of the of the great pedal builders started off modding other pedals! Though there needs to be a point where builders are building part-for-part clones and selling them as knock-offs, I like that builders are improving on designs (eg. Klon vs PCE AF2 with bass boost, TS-808 vs Analogman KoT) in their own way.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Not a criticism, but just a point of information. Actually, the KoT is a Marshall Bluesbreaker derivative. Hell, I made myself one using the same PCB I had used for a Bluesbreaker. I found the BB somewhat harsh for my tastes, and the KoT sounded smoother to me.


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## elliottmoose (Aug 20, 2012)

Ohhh thats right! Thanks mhammer!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

You're welcome.  The m is for Mark, BTW.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

mhammer said:


> You're welcome.  The m is for Mark, BTW.


If your middle name is Charles or Cedric.......

Well, you get it


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## elliottmoose (Aug 20, 2012)

mhammer said:


> You're welcome.  The m is for Mark, BTW.


Got it boss/Mark! 

Part of me hopes the milkman is right...


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