# I think im getting better......



## amcutem (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, if i think about it, i believe it's been around 6 years since I started learning the minor pentatonic. I've had a guitar before that, but all i ever played were songs that my friends taught me, and the really easy ones on the song books.

Finally, after six years, the pentatonic scale is starting to make sense to my ears/brain. There are times when i can improvise on my own riffs, and i think it sounds ok. Although, I get tired right away of the stuff I make up, but at the same time, its the best i can do?
I actaully get confused whenever I practice now, because a part of me is struggling to learn, but another part of me can't believe that I can somehow play at all. 

Does anybody have any good tips and advice for me. Maybe tabs???Maybe techniques?? Should I just keep practicing the minor pentatonic until i get really better. 

Is the Major scale as easy to use as the pentatonic?? Do i even make sense???

Also, whats' the secret to finding or improvising to music whith chords.....I guess memorizing relative chords should help???


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Hey there bud,

Get a teacher.


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## AlterEgo (Jan 12, 2010)

I'm sure professional friends in the forum have better ways (and please don't hesitate to correct me if I made a mistake), but here is my point of view and my modus operendi:
You shouldn't memorize chords but instead know how to construct them. Going through this learning curve, it will give you three abilities:
+Get to play 7th, 9th, 11th from the basic 3 notes chord
+Understand relative positions on the neck, only have to learn 5 patterns which you can transpose within the 12th position on your neck (doing this you already know 60 chords)
+And no the least, over a chord progression, you can arpeggio all chords, which can be a potential root for a melody or eventually a solo.

Remember when I say not to memorize chords, well it is true with the exception of 5 basic open chords (which I'm sure you already know) D,C,E,G,A ... But I would focus first on two chords; one using the 6th string root pattern such as E and 5th string root pattern such as A (however, I use C instead for I,IV,V 12 bar blue progression). Then explore all notes around the base position, then you can create a whole new color to these chords. Understanding major and minor scale organization:
1t,1t,.5t,1t,1t,1t for major and 1t,.5t,1t,1t,.5t,1t,1t for minor (where t = tone), you only need to know the following:
Chord type: (the numbers are the note position in the scale)
major: 1,3,5
minor: 1,b3,5
dim: 1,b3,b5
aug: 1,2,#5
6:1,3,5,6
m6:1,b3,5,6
maj7: 1,3,5,7
7:1,3,5,b7
7sus:1,4,5,b7
m7:1,b3,5,b7
maj9:1,3,(5),7,9
9:1,3,(5),b7,9
and so forth, I know you don't have enough fingers for the 9th type chord but you can omit the "quinte" (sorry I don't know the name in english, but the number in bracket). Here is not my intent to give a complete musical theory, but I think to unlash for musical potential you need to explore the basic of modern music structure.

Have fun, and continue playing....

Cheers


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

Is this where you are right now?

| | |x| | |x| | |
| | |x| | |x| | |
| | |x| |x| | | |
| | |x| |x| | | |
| | |x| |x| | | |
| | |x| | |x| | |

Try this:

| | |x| |!|x| |x|
| | |x|!| |x| |x|
| |!|x| |x| | | |
| | |x| |x| | | |
|x| |x| |x| | | |
|x| |x| | | | | |

Those notes marked with "!" are my favourite notes in the universe.


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## fret15 (Feb 17, 2006)

Greg Ellis said:


> Is this where you are right now?
> 
> | | |x| | |x| | |
> | | |x| | |x| | |
> ...


I guess you're a fan of the minor scale...


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## Bryan (Jan 14, 2008)

Google the caged system . It will help you with cord changes and which scales work with them . You should also print out some blank fret board charts and make the effort to write out the notes on them . When you are practicing you should also say the scale degree and note when you play them , and even sing them as you go . On cord changes you are looking at thinking about them as arpeggios . This will tell you the notes in the cord . There will be target notes to hit in the cord changes : like root third and fifth . Your basic triad . You should learn how to build chords . When you know the root of the cord you can work out the rest . I played for some 13 years just playing without learning any theroy . Now after stopping for some twenty I've started back and decided to learn theroy . I can't tell you what a difference this has made . I found a site http://truefire.com/index2.html that I use for my lessons . I mentioned it in a thread that FlipFlopFly started on free lessons . Good luck , and as they say over at TrueFire , " partice smart play hard " .


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## amcutem (Jan 22, 2010)

I would love to get lessons, but don't you need money for that????

Shity bud is all i have 





Budda said:


> Hey there bud,
> 
> Get a teacher.


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## amcutem (Jan 22, 2010)

*OMG guys....*

Holy cow guys, i will do my best to follow all your advice. Im so thankfull right now. I can't believe i'm getting free advice here. 
But first I think i have to wrap my head around it. It's all so confusing to me right now. 

Right now, i can practice using 3 minor penta. scales. The most commone one, and the one before and after it on the neck. I can't believe i'm playing, im so happy.

Learn how to construct chords???? I really wanna learn that.....How do i start....??

I also know all the open chords, just major, minor, and 7th.

I really wish i could play with chords just like i can somehow do w/ pentatonic notes.


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## amcutem (Jan 22, 2010)

AlterEgo said:


> I'm sure professional friends in the forum have better ways (and please don't hesitate to correct me if I made a mistake), but here is my point of view and my modus operendi:
> You shouldn't memorize chords but instead know how to construct them. Going through this learning curve, it will give you three abilities:
> +Get to play 7th, 9th, 11th from the basic 3 notes chord
> +Understand relative positions on the neck, only have to learn 5 patterns which you can transpose within the 12th position on your neck (doing this you already know 60 chords)
> ...





I think I quit.......

I don't wanna play guitar anymore.....im sorry. 
Im going back to my ps3.

Can anybody breakdown what you just explained. Please......

All i understood is Major, minor, and solo...sorry. 

Should i feel stupid cause i don't understand you?


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## AlterEgo (Jan 12, 2010)

No hell no! please don't quit playing guitar... it is such rewarding activity social and feeling wise.... When your initially asked you question, I thought you wanted to go to another level.... If you want to leverage first your pentatonic skill, here is some advises before jumping into chord construction... without going in the detail of the modal theory, all scales are somehow related... only the location of the "half step"... So by example, the "penta" in pentatonic means 5 in latin, hence this scale has only 5 notes where half steps are removed (remember the above "0.5t")... as per Greg suggestion adding his favorite notes, the pentatonic scale becomes a natural minor.. as per fret15 comment ..voila! you know without much effort another scale (only as far as the 3 high strings) ... explore this... take your time. To maximize your current knowledge on pentatonic scale I would suggest you to add a flatted fifth to the scale also often called blues scale ... from Greg diagram, here it is:
| | |x| | |x| | |
| | |x| | |x| | |
| | |x| |x|x| | |
| | |x| |x| | | |
| | |x|x|x| | | |
| | |x| | |x| | |

Another advise would be to play with someone... or record a chord progression I IV V (ex: A7 D7 E7, I'm suggesting all 7th to avoid caring about minor or major scales), and play your pentatonic over it.... the trick is the "landing note" .. So when the A7 is ringing you play note around A (at start...) and then when the chord change to D7 make sure you land on D note in your scale progression.... take your time, start slowly. I would suggest you to find where is you A D E on the neck and only play those notes when chord change.... your brain will mechanically memorize their location and when you improvize you will ALWAYS sound in tune if you land on the chord note... If you are using the A7, D7, E7 progression, start your pentatonic scale from the 5th fret where your root note "A" in on the 5th fret Low E string...

Maybe a book on scales is a judicious acquisition... you may not have a laptop around when your practice.... 
I fully concur with Bryan theory as boring it might be will speed up your learning curve and the understand of how you can get this piece of wood crying... 

Please continue, I'm sure there is a artist inside you screaming to get out... be a real guitar hero, play real guitar ... And if you need further explaination please ask again (I'm not a teacher by any means, just someone who play guitar), but I'm sure you can spend 20$ for a book (even used) ... A good book I have and still used is Mel Bay's complete Jazz guitar method by M. Christansen ... Even if you careless about Jazz... it explains chord construction and explain most scale... 

Cheers


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## Nohtanhoj (Jun 30, 2008)

amcutem said:


> Can anybody breakdown what you just explained. Please......


 First, don't quit guitar! We all didn't understand it the first time we saw it either.

Think about it like this. Every chord is constructed of certain notes. These notes are what give the chord its sound and feel. Certain notes can be applied to all chords in all scales to give the chord a certain feel; the b3 note is an example. Every minor chord in every key has the b3 note (it's what gives the minor sound). I'm getting ahead of myself, however. Let's go back to basics a bit here.

You said you understand the major and minor scales, and know a bit about solos. The key to making your basic solos sound better is to play melodically. Let me show you what I mean. If you stick to the progression and basic melody of the song (but add a few embellishments), your solo will sound far better than if you go way off the progression. In order to achieve this fluidity in your playing, you should go to Google and look up the pentatonic scale (in C major first). You'll see that there are five basic "positions" that you can play the pentatonics in. You can use any of them and you will sound good over any chords that fit the key of C major. Practice these positions in two ways: 1. Simply play them up and down the scale until you can hit all five positions with good accuracy. 2. Take time to play each in a musical context. Go online and search "C major backing track" and you will find may different pieces that you can play over and solo over. Play these scales over the backing tracks, and remember not to start getting too complex right away. Play along with the basic melody of the song and add different pieces that make it sound more complete. Do this over until you can play the scales fluently.

When this hits, realize that these patterns you have learned apply to every key, everywhere. The "root note" of the scale can be moved anywhere with the same intervals between the patterns. For example, if you are playing the fifth fret in C major, you can play the seventh fret in D major and it will sound perfect (because you are now in the D major scale). Now you can play in any key!

What about minor, you ask? Well, it turns out that the major scale and the minor scale pattern are one and the same! For example, do some research into the concept of "relative minor." If you are playing in C major, you are technically also playing in A minor! Just count up a sixth in the scale to find the relative minor from the major scale. From C major, you count C-D-E-F-G-A. Thus A is your relative minor. If you are playing the G major scale, it turns out you are also playing the E minor scale. 

See what I'm saying about how you can now play in any key? 

Now, once you master these keys all over the neck (with all five positions, don't forget), you can get into adding the "colour" notes to the basic pentatonic scales. The pentatonic scale only takes five notes from the scale you are playing in, when the scale actually has seven tones you could possibly play. The other notes are added in by looking at the chord you are playing over. For example, let's say you are playing in the C major scale over a G dominant 7 chord. The first chord construction you should memorize is that any major chord is made up of the 1-3-5 degree of the scale. What are degrees, you ask? Let's take a closer look at the major scale.

In any key, the actual key centre is called the "root" of the scale. For example, a D major scale has D as the key centre or the root. To construct the major scale, use the following pattern of tones. On the guitar, a tone translates to two frets up (except in some special cases, but we'll get to that later). From the key centre, the major scale is constructed by going a T(whole tone) up from the C, which gives you a D. Then another T, and then a S(semitone, translating to one fret up on the guitar). The entire pattern looks like this:

T-T-S-T-T-T-S (In C major, this translates to C D E F G A B C)

After you go up the last semitone, notice that you have reached the key centre again. This shows you the seven notes in any major scale. Each note has its own degree based on what position it is in the scale. For example, E is the third degree of C because it is the third note when you are constructing the scale. The two notes you have to watch out for are E and B. If I told you to go up one whole step from E, you would likely say: "Okay, E-E#-F !" However, there is no semitone between the notes E-F and B-C. A whole tone from E is actually F#, just as a whole tone from B is C#.

Now lets go back to chord construction. Remember how I said that every major chord is constructed of the 1-3-5 of the scale? (It actually includes the 7 as well, but for now, lets stick to harmonizing in fifths). Now you can figure out the exact notes that the C major scale contains. Try to figure this out without reading the answer. (C-E-G and bonus points if you remembered the 7th - B). You can now harmonize any scale to figure out the notes contained within the chords. For example, if I asked you to figure out the third of G, you would write down the major scale, following the same pattern that I showed you, and hopefully answer B). Since the G major scale is: G-A-B-C-D-E-F#-G, notice that the third tone of that scale is B.

What about minor? Easy, you have in fact already done it! If you write down the relative major (remember how to find one from the other), and write out the major scale, the relative minor scale is simply the same notes, but instead of starting from the first, start from the sixth. For example, the full A minor scale is A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A. Notice how it is the same as the C major scale, except it starts on A instead of C.

Some common chord constructions follow (I will first start with triads and move on to sevenths when required). Remember that each tone can be figured out right from harmonizing the scale.
Major: 1-3-5
Minor: 1-b3-5
Dominant Seventh: 1-3-5-b7
Major Seventh: 1-3-5-7
Minor Seventh: 1-b3-5-b7
Diminished: 1-b3-b5-b7

Now, you can figure out the most complex chords easily by harmonizing the scale. For example, if I told you to figure out the notes of a Bm6 chord, you could easily do it by realizing that since the chord is minor, you need the b3, and since the chord is a sixth, you need the 6 in there. Try to figure out the notes of the chord without looking. (Hint: You won't get this right away. I recommend you get some paper and write out the B major scale. Then pick the correct notes). (The correct notes are B-D-F#-G#).

This is the basic theory of how chords and scales work together. Now how can we apply this to playing guitar?

Let's say you're playing a blues jam in the key of G major, and you're playing lead guitar. The chord progression you and your buddies have chosen is a I-IV-V (the classic blues progression). You know that the G major pentatonic scale will work perfectly over all those chords, but you want to spice things up a bit. On the next guitar solo part, you suggest to your friends that you walk down in a VII-V-I pattern before heading back to the song structure. You know the notes of the dominant 7 chord from what I've told you or what you've looked up (1-3-5-b7 if you have forgotten), and since you have harmonized the G major scale, you know that the seventh degree of the G major scale is an F# note. When your buddies hit the VII chord, you can throw some F notes into your solo (the notes are not naturally contained inside of the G major pentatonic). These will sound lovely and bluesy over the VII chord because they are a step down from the octave (normally sounding terribly off key), but since you are playing them over the matching chord you will sound great.

You can do this for any chord. On the IV chord, throw the fourth in there (and maybe the flat fifth as well, since that is known as the "blues note"). 

You can add a whole lot of flavour to your solos by using these concepts. Practice this stuff and make sure you know it well, including how chords fit together and how to solo over chords. However, it all builds off a solid understanding and repertoire of the basic scales, so make sure you can play them musically before you move on to anything else.

Good luck, and even though some of this sounds like work, have fun with it!


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## mrfiftyfour (Jun 29, 2008)

Hey Amcutem!
Learn to play all your favorite songs.
If you start writing your own, even better
Jam with as many people as you can. Very important.
Learn the Major and Minor Pentatonics.
This is all you need
Higher education is certainly a worthy endeavor, but don't stress about it


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## AlterEgo (Jan 12, 2010)

> ...We all didn't understand it the first time we saw it either.


  Sorry about that, my intent wasn't to scare anyone... and indeed your explanation is better structured and flowing very well .. Hard to summarize this in few lines on a post... and my English skill for sure didn't help. thanks for helping amcutem. I would suggest that you move your post to the lesson section.

Cheers,


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## amcutem (Jan 22, 2010)

*caged*

well, im trying to pratice the CAGED system. Do u just start strumminmg CAGED over and over. How do i used this thing?


Also, thanks a lot again guys.


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## Nohtanhoj (Jun 30, 2008)

Well, the CAGED system is just simply an acronym for many chord shapes. It helps many people with learning the neck and how to use certain barre chords. To practice it, I'd probably practice the changes first with just left hand alone, making sure your fingers know where to go.... Then, get a little strumming going, try to find a tune you like that has the chords you are practicing, to make it fun (trust me, there are a million songs that use those shapes).

Play everything in a musical context to practice it.... Make yourself a backing track and just jam over it - mix in those chords and maybe a little melody you make up...

Keep on rockin.


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## Wiser (Jan 6, 2010)

Nohtanhoj said:


> First, don't quit guitar! We all didn't understand it the first time we saw it either.


Holy hell. I can't even take that all in at once, lol. I've got your post bookmarked now. The future me who has read and understood this thanks you.


amcutem, I'm still working on getting to where you are, at four years of playing. 
It seems once you get it, you get it. Learning to play the guitar will be much more satisfying than playing PS3 in a few years 

Keep at it amcutem.


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## Bryan (Jan 14, 2008)

Hey amcutem !
Check out this site http://essentialguitar.com/index.html 
It has alot of great info and it should help you see the light , and best of all , it's FREE !!!


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## amcutem (Jan 22, 2010)

*Well, im back at it again..*

Hey guys, well im practising again and im happy. Im still a little stuck at where Im at, but i know that my fingers a getting a little bit better now. However, the notes and senteces in my head are always the same when im trying to play along w/ a riff. I think need melody inside me. 
I'm also trying to cutdown on TV, and listen to music more. I think for me, listening to music is a must, because if I don't hear anything good, I don't feel like playing. But the instant I hear something good, like a song I like on the radio, I want to play guitar again and or I wish I had a guitar at the moment so can ruin the song w/ my playing. lol
I don't know if thats good or bad?

Guys, what can I play over a Major? Only Major scales??


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

amcutem said:


> Hey guys, well im practising again and im happy. Im still a little stuck at where Im at, but i know that my fingers a getting a little bit better now. However, the notes and senteces in my head are always the same when im trying to play along w/ a riff. I think need melody inside me.
> I'm also trying to cutdown on TV, and listen to music more. I think for me, listening to music is a must, because if I don't hear anything good, I don't feel like playing. But the instant I hear something good, like a song I like on the radio, I want to play guitar again and or I wish I had a guitar at the moment so can ruin the song w/ my playing. lol
> I don't know if thats good or bad?
> 
> Guys, what can I play over a Major? Only Major scales??



do you mean a song in a major key?.......this is not the exhaustive list of what you can do - but simpler concepts that will take you far.....you can play in the major scale matching the key - you can play in the relative minor scale.....you can play melodies using the notes within each chord as they arise..........it really has a lot to do with the chord progression.....i.e. a song with a I IV V progression to cite a simplistic example...those chords are the same in either the major or minor scales - so you could even start out playing within the major scale of the key and switch to the minor scale of the key.....example - listen to Cream "sunshine of your Love"....in the guitar lead - Clapton plays within the Dminor pentatonic for the first 2 bars - then switches to Dmajor for the next 2......BB King does this often as well as a cast of thousand other players including yours truly.......

in the end - 1 basic rule.....stick close to the melody and yer gonna be ok......try finding the notes of the vocal melody for example - then decipher what scale its using (shouldn't be hard if you already know the chord progression of the song - as this will reveal the key for the most part) - it'll help with providing a framework for an improvised lead...some songs sound great with a guitar lead that mimics the vocal melody note for note - CCR tunes are good for this - i.e. Proud Mary or Have you ever seen the rain......

food for thought.

PS - watch out for those songs that switch keys.....many songs switch keys mid stream and stay there....i.e. Trooper "here for a good time(not a long time)" or Don Henly Dirty Laundry....some switch between major and minor keys between the chorus and the verses - i.e. While my Guitar Gently weeps, Bell bottom blues...even Proud Mary above does that between the breakdown (in the intro) and the rest of the song....Freebird - between the slow part and the fast part...and on and on and on


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