# Searching for Vintage Marshall tone without ripping your face off. Help Please.



## Tommycod (Nov 20, 2012)

Hi forum. 

I am in the process of rebuilding my rig, and am in pursuit of the right amp and looking for feedback. 
Many years ago I had the full stack and some rack effects...but then kids, jobs, LIFE!
Today, all that old stuff is gone, and I am in the process of rebuilding my rig. 

I find today I am playing mostly the good old stuff....70's rock (Zeppelin, Heart, ACDC, EVH, Rush, Sabbath) with some 80's metal (Ratt, etc). 

I still have a JSX combo, but it wasn't cutting it for me (too compressed and a bit harsh)...so I started to rebuild. 

Picked up a LP Traditional light burst (love it), picked up an orange 212 closed back and swapped out the V30's with Scumback M75's (so much better with the Scumbacks!). Picked up an orange dark terror (not bad, and i'm really digging the single channel thing, but find the tone is best with the volume up and gain at about 1:00). It can be a little fizzy and does not clean up well when rolling back as the gain comes on real quick. 

So the LP and cab are keepers, but I am looking for suggestions for the right amp. 

I guess my wish list would be:

Vintage rock tone that can dip into 80's metal (marshallesque based on what i like to play)
Has a decent clean (but does not need to be super clean)
Will not rip you face off to get good tone (does not need to be bedroom levels)
Effects loop preferably
Can keep up for gigs

Was thinking about a sure badger 18, Fargen mini plex or olde 800, EVH iii mini, Class 5?

What have you tried that you think will hit the mark? Suggestions?


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## Guest (Dec 14, 2012)

Considering digital? The Marshall tones in the Axe-Fx II are outstanding.

All of this, except for the drums, were done with an Axe-Fx II (even the synths):

[soundcloud]https://soundcloud.com/jazz-funk-1/sets/my-axe-fx-2-recordings[/soundcloud]

And you like Zep? How about this:

[soundcloud]https://soundcloud.com/steadystate-vegas/heartbreaker-solo-using-the[/soundcloud]

That's the Supertweed model.

And when you just want to get your Eddie on:

[soundcloud]https://soundcloud.com/iaresee/axe-fx-ii-5150-mkiii-model[/soundcloud]

That's only scratching the surface.

You can run it in to a guitar cab for that authenticate feel. Or run it dead silent in to your computer to do a little late night recording.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Handy with a soldering iron? Look at a Trinity amps 18W kit, which can be built (I think) 4 different way, ie., TMB, Plexi style, etc. No loop though.

I had a 5150 III for just under the return period from L&M. Hated the clean (ch1), hated the vol jump from ch1 to ch2, besides which those 2 share EQ and vol/gain settings. Hard to dial one in to be usable with the other. Ch2 is killer. Ch3 is a little *too much*. So, it was a really good 1 channel amp labelled as 3 channels.

I freely admit I haven't played a Class 5, but I've done *tons* of reading on them. It might float yer boat, but my take is that it's a very loud home amp, not enough for gigs, and 1 dimensional.

If I had the $$ for a Fargen or Suhr floating around, I'd jump in a heartbeat.


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## SkyFire_ca (Jul 16, 2007)

I was also thinking a Trinity, or any marshall 18watter, really. eyeball for that loop... most (if not all) sound amazing, especially if you're talented enough to understand how 1 channel really does it all. I've got a TC-15 from Trinity, more of a vox sound, but it can sure do a lot for 1 channel.

if you want it with 2 channels and a loop, how about an H&K Tube Meister, Mesa TA-15 or something similar...

http://www.hughes-and-kettner.com/products.php5?id=142&prod=TubeMeister 18 Head
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Transatlantic/transatlantic-TA-15.html


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

Have a look at Phaez amps - the first name that came to mind when I read your wish list. The effects loop option wouldn't be an expensive add-on either.


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2012)

Nice job with heartbreaker!


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## Guest (Dec 15, 2012)

laristotle said:


> Nice job with heartbreaker!


Not me I'm afraid. One of the other beta team members. That tone is ridiculously easy to pull out of the box though.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

keto said:


> I freely admit I haven't played a Class 5, but I've done *tons* of reading on them. It might float yer boat, but my take is that it's a very loud home amp, not enough for gigs, and 1 dimensional.


That's pretty spot on. I have one.

If you like the overdriven Marshall tone it's too loud for home unless you're in a detached home and probably won't keep up with a heavy drummer. 

It's not a high gain amp but takes pedals well. Not a lot of clean headroom either. 

Having said all that Mine is modified with a VVR, a little more headroom and a high gain switch which is quite decent. 

Give it a try. You might like it.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Not a Marshall and I haven't tried one,
but there's a cool little Mesa TA in the FS section for seven bills.

5-25 watts, not sure if there's an effects loop though.

Go buy it, so I don't. 8)


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

http://www.electroglideamps.com/mp3/ChrisModel18.mp3

Guitar, cord, amp.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Why compromise if you want a marshall tone....9100 or El34 50/50 poweramp and JMp1 for preamp..and you're set for most likely under 1000$.. never been happier with mine


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Have you looked at the Marshall 50 Anniversary 1Watt series? Maybe the JCM-1H or the JMP-1H?


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

WCGill said:


> http://www.electroglideamps.com/mp3/ChrisModel18.mp3
> 
> Guitar, cord, amp.


Why not look closer to home!!!
Hey guys............what about all of the Canadian builders,
the list is long and the quality would be better than most of the name brands these days.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

loudtubeamps said:


> Why not look closer to home!!!
> Hey guys............what about all of the Canadian builders,
> the list is long and the quality would be better than most of the name brands these days.


what he said!!


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm in a similar boat, went from a detached home to a condo and really miss my Vibro King (the 18W Marshall & 62 Princeton will accompany me to the grave). I'm hoping to marry a rich girl so that she'll buy us a house with a music room where I can crank my babies up. In the meantime, I've been through many amps in the past 5 or 6 yrs searching for "that sound" at a lower volume. Here's what I've found out:

Mesa LSS 112 combo: Thought that the ability to switch from to 30/15/5W would be good, but 5W of Class A power can still be quite loud. Versatile amp but I spent more time fiddling with knobs than playing. Lousy reverb. Almost as heavy as the Vibro King.

Cornford Harlequin: 6W Class A, 112 combo. Very nice amp, PTP handwired in the UK, not boxy sounding like a Champ due to the larger cab (similar to an 18W Marshall) & 12" speaker. It was a tad "gainy" for me & didn't clean up that well with the guitar's volume pot. The preamp volume is very sensitive in between 1:00 - 2:00. Tried to Vox it up by putting in a Celestion Alnico Blue, but this amp excels at 80s metal tones.

Vox AC4TV 110 combo: Too compressed on the 1/4W setting, sounded best on 4W but way too loud. Boxy tone, but the head version might be worth a look.

Mini Z: Built-in attenuator does very little at the higher settings then has a huge volume drop on the lower settings. Also, the more attenuated settings are too compressed & rather dark, but there's no tone knob so you're stuck. 

Clark Beaufort 5E3 replica: Yessss!!!! Especially w/ an Alnico Blue. But I could never turn it up to the point where I got crunch. 

Fender "Woody" Blues Jr.: Gorgeous amp, better tone vs. normal Bues Jr. due to bubinga cab. Lousy reverb. Strats liked the FAT switch, usable MV & loud enough for most drummers. Throw in a Greenback & you're good to go.

Fender "Woody" Pro Jr.: What was I thinking? Sounded great when cranked but loud as H-E-double hockey sticks. Gorgeous cleans but I was always tempted to turn it to 12 ("That's 2 louder innit?"). Like the bubinga Blues Jr., the tone was also better than the regular Pro Jr. thanks to solid wood cab (blonde ash IIRC).

Fender SF Vibro Champ: Pretty loud before any crunch happens, tone was too brittle to my ears, but I've never really dug the BF thing, always found it a little stiff & sterile.

Fender Tweed Champ: Great crunch, seemed to love a Tele most of all. As expected it sounded a bit boxy from the 8" speaker, HBs pushed it into mush pretty quickly. Great for recording but got kinda tiresome for bedroom playing.

Victoria 5112 (tweed champ in a Deluxe cab): Still experimenting with speakers, but this one might be a keeper. More headroom, better "taper" to when the dirt starts & less boxy vs. the tweed Champ. Great round clean tones, maybe even a tad more "open" than my 62 Princeton (10" speaker). Behaves better w/ HBs than the other 2 Champs, likely thanks to the 12" speaker vs. an 8".

Marshall Class 5 head: Surprisingly good cleans. Like a previous poster said, you need to turn it up to get the crunch happening, might be too loud if you're in an apartment. On the fence about this one. 

Marshall 1W heads: Didn't buy these but have spent a lot of time noodling with the JTM, JMP & JCM800. They all sound pretty close to their larger namesakes but you need to turn them up to really get them singing. The low power switch on the back is useless as it knocks the volume down too low (1/10 W IIRC) & the amp sounds really fizzy on that setting. The JTM is my fave, as the cleans are the best of any of the 1W head's I've played & had the best reponse to changes in pick attack & the guitar's volume knob. 

BumBox Lead 1 head: PTP handwired in the US at 1/2 the cost of the 1W Marshalls. 1W but good thing it's got a master volume. In the JCM800 range re: how much gain is on tap.

PRS 25th Anniversary head: 6 position voltage control that acts kind of like a MV but is probably closer to a built-in attenuator (the Rev. B has a rheostatic control for the voltage control). This was reverse engineered from Eric Johnson's 50W Plexi & nails old Marshall tone. Was thinking about selling it but then I A/B'd with a Suhr Badger 18....maybe I didn't have the Suhr dialed in right, but the PRS is a monster!


So besides the Victoria 5112 it looks like the PRS is a keeper. On the fence about the Class 5 (kinda loud for my neighbours), might trade it in on a JMP1W, but I need to do a Pepsi Challenge between the Class 5, BumBox & JMP1 before making my final decision. Might as well throw the PRS in for good measure too.


Anyone try the lower wattage Vox heads (AC4TVH or NT2H)? How about the AC4HW1 112 or AC4C1-BL 110 combos?


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## notjoeaverage (Oct 6, 2008)

Roryfan said:


> Anyone try the lower wattage Vox heads (AC4TVH or NT2H)? How about the AC4HW1 112 or AC4C1-BL 110 combos?


I've had a VOX Lil' Night Train 2W Head for almost a year now and I love it. I'm currently using a closed back 2x12 with 70's Celestions, a G12H30 and G12M25 16ohms, they are wired to 8ohms which brings the Head's output down from 2 to 1.5 Watts according to the manual. 

I think the key to getting what you want out of a low Watt head is to use the right speakers. I'm still looking to pick up a Blue and a Vintage 30 and try them together and with the other two in various combinations. I tried using two G12H30s and two G12M25s, but prefer splitting them up. I have a feeling anything much more than 30 Watts is just wasted.

My three main players with this setup are a Gibson Les Paul 60's Tribute with P90s, an Epiphone Les Paul Tribute Plus with Gibson 57 Classic HBs and a Squier Classic Vibe Telecaster with Alnico Vs. All three work really well and pick attack variation is noticable and using the guitars volume to clean things up or get down and dirty works just as it should.

I normally play sitting, my cab sits on top of another 2x12 and I'm 3 to 4 feet from the speakers. Gain and Volume normally at 9 o'clock Treble and Bass (they only work when in Bright mode) at 12 o'clock. It's plenty loud enoughat that distance, but if you get up and walk til near the end of the 15ft cable it's low enough my neighbours upstairs and next door rarely hear me. If you go to 12 o'clock Gain and Volume it is FREAKIN' LOUD and ROCKS.

I play 60s and 70s Classic Rock and Blues. The only reason I keep my eyes open for other amps right now is I have trouble turning down a good deal and I suffer from GAS as bad as most of the rest of you.

Any question just ask I'll be checkin back in


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

I really like my Blackheart Handsome Devil for that Marshall with volume control thing. It is for sale in the amp forum because AL3D is right, rack and power amp gives you your tone at ANY desired volume. I now use a Mosvalve power amp and a Peavey Rockmaster that cost $450.00 used on KIJIJI and came with a 412 loaded with Celestion G12Ts! I also have a backup Mosvalve that I use with a Zoom G3 that is really amazingly good too, especially in the garage for low volume practice.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

try out a tech 21 trademark 10...these amps sound awesome...

[video=youtube;D-3eWsQNDBs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-3eWsQNDBs[/video]


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

Tommycod said:


> Hi forum.
> 
> I find today I am playing mostly the good old stuff....70's rock (Zeppelin, Heart, ACDC, EVH, Rush, Sabbath) with some 80's metal (Ratt, etc).
> I guess my wish list would be:
> ...


I liked the 5150IIIM that I played this weekend a lot. More than enough gain on the 3rd channel, but a lot more classic on Channel 2. It's Marshall-like, but not dead on.

I like the Hughes and Kettner Tubemeister 18 a lot as well, but it's its own amp. Not super Marshally, but sounds great nonetheless.

You can check out the Marshall Haze line, but I have no personal experience playing them.

Lastly, take a look at Blackstar amps. The company is run by former Marshall employees, and they make stuff from 1 watt to 100 watts.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2013)

Rollin Hand said:


> I liked the 5150IIIM that I played this weekend a lot. More than enough gain on the 3rd channel, but a lot more classic on Channel 2. It's Marshall-like, but not dead on.


That's a killer amp. The blue and red channels on it are crazy versatile. Not too keen on the green channel, but it's there...


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## pickslide (May 9, 2006)

Got a couple of suggestions. How about a Marshall 18 watter or a 2061xhead? Get either of those with a good attenuator for around $300 and you are solid. Then again, if you get the good attenuator, you can get pretty much any marshall amp you want. 

As an aside, if you like pedals, I strongly suggest trying out the JHS Charlie Brown and Angry Charlie Brown pedals for awesome marshall tones. The Charlie is like jtm-plexi and angry is plexi-jcm800. These are the best marshall pedals that I have played.


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

Handwired in Canada and well under $1,000:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXe7dADEQvU


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2013)

gtone said:


> Handwired in Canada and well under $1,000:
> 
> Phaez JTM18 + Boost/Scumack H75 - Scumnico/ Zhangbucker Duanebucker pickups - YouTube


I'm sure that amp sounds great but that is all the ways not to demo your product. Clipping mic, boomy room -- unlistenable really.


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## doriangrey (Mar 29, 2011)

laristotle said:


> Nice job with heartbreaker!


agreed - absolutely deadly job on the solo...really great...wow!


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

iaresee said:


> I'm sure that amp sounds great but that is all the ways not to demo your product. Clipping mic, boomy room -- unlistenable really.


The clip is not from the builder. Phaez amps are built in Windsor ON by sound engineer Randy Fay. Few good clips of Phaez amps exist, but they have a strong following at MyLesPaul forum and several others.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2013)

gtone said:


> The clip is not from the builder. Phaez amps are built in Windsor ON by sound engineer Randy Fay. Few good clips of Phaez amps exist, but they have a strong following at MyLesPaul forum and several others.


If I were Phaez I'd be cease-and-desisting the hell out of crap videos of my product like that!


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

iaresee said:


> If I were Phaez I'd be cease-and-desisting the hell out of crap videos of my product like that!


Shouldn't you be packing your bags for California? sigiifa


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## RobQ (May 29, 2008)

Bogner Shiva or, if you can find one, Carr Hammerhead.


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2013)

gtone said:


> Shouldn't you be packing your bags for California? sigiifa


Ha! Poking the bears on GC is so much fun though!  (That wasn't you in the video, was it?)


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## gtone (Nov 1, 2009)

iaresee said:


> Ha! Poking the bears on GC is so much fun though!  (That wasn't you in the video, was it?)


No, wasn't me - daresay those folks were from south of the 49th parallel. After reading your comments, I was starting to wonder if you weren't one of these guys, however:


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

I thought of another couple of items that might work. They supposedly work well at lower volumes too, though I am not sure about the 1960.

Bugera 1960:
BUGERA 1960 Tube amp demo (on a Les Paul) - YouTube


Bugera 1990:
BUGERA 1990 Tube Amp Demo on Music Man EVH - YouTube

You can also look for the Peavey Windsor, which is a Marshall clone.


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## Analogman (Oct 3, 2012)

Check out the Mesa Electradyne

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLpk6H5YX3A

I just picked one up, they have a killer british tone!!


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

Roryfan said:


> I'm in a similar boat, went from a detached home to a condo and really miss my Vibro King (the 18W Marshall & 62 Princeton will accompany me to the grave). I'm hoping to marry a rich girl so that she'll buy us a house with a music room where I can crank my babies up. In the meantime, I've been through many amps in the past 5 or 6 yrs searching for "that sound" at a lower volume. Here's what I've found out:
> 
> Mesa LSS 112 combo: Thought that the ability to switch from to 30/15/5W would be good, but 5W of Class A power can still be quite loud. Versatile amp but I spent more time fiddling with knobs than playing. Lousy reverb. Almost as heavy as the Vibro King.
> 
> ...


Update: Everything is gone & the guy who now owns the Victoria 5112 is going to put in an attenuator (yes, 5W w/out a master is still really loud in an apartment).

After MUCH experimentation, my current indoor rig is an AC4TVH head through a closed-back 212 loaded with a Celestion Alnico Blue/Gold combo (open-backed cab is on the way for a more "Voxy" tone). Sounds huge compared to its' comboed brethren. Decent crunch tones on the 1W setting with the volume at noon or above. Switching to the 4W setting with the volume around 9:00 for clean tones. Stumbled across the head in gently used condition at my local L&M, then loaded it with NOS tubes. Arguably the best $200 I've ever spent on gear. And yes, I realize that it's ridiculous to run the wee AC through a cabinet that's worth 4-5x what I spent on the head, but I'm happy with my tone. For now.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

The AC4HW1 Hand Wired 112 combo might be worth checking out too, doesn't seem to suffer from the boxiness of the 118 & 110 versions. Although it's quite a bit more spendy than its' cousins, it's in the same range as the 1W Marshalls. I'd also give the blue 110 combo a serious workout before pulling the trigger/opening my wallet. The MV on the blue 110 & HW 112 is probably a little more flexible than the 1/4W, 1W, 4W set up of the AC4TV amps, and definitely more usable than the low power button on the 1W Marshalls.

http://www.voxamps.com/us/ac4/ac4c1-BL/


http://www.sweetwater.com/store/search.php?s=vox+ac4


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

In regards to the Clark 5E3, you mentioned you liked it but just couldn't play it loud enough to get it sounding good? I love the Tweed sound and have always been intrigued with the Beauford, any other positives or negatives with this amp?


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

+1 on Phaez. 

Hand wired, good prices, choice of build styles and add-ons, gaining respect in growing circles, made in Canada as bonus.


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

vadsy said:


> In regards to the Clark 5E3, you mentioned you liked it but just couldn't play it loud enough to get it sounding good? I love the Tweed sound and have always been intrigue with the Beauford, any other positives or negatives with this amp?


The Beaufort is a spectacular amp, once you get the hang of how the tone & volume controls interact with each other & the volume controls on your guitar it's surprisingly versatile. The clean tones are quite nice & the OD is very "snarly", but since it doesn't have a master volume I can't get it to break up at apartment-friendly levels (i.e. the sweet spot that I was referring to).

Compared to a vintage Jensen, the Alnico Blue increases the volume significantly, adds some chime & also tightens up the bottom end. It's easy to see why this was a common mod, humbuckers suddenly love a 5E3!

Still got mine (for now) if you want to give it a whirl. 

Edit: Oops, sorry Vadsy, I didn't realize that you're in AB. If ever you're in T.O. (& I still have the amp), you're more than welcome to come by & check out the Clark.


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## weener (Apr 9, 2009)

From your taste in music ,I would think the Phaez 22AFD would be right up your alley !


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