# Does The Face Define The Person, Or Does The Person Define The Face?



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

You see a guy whose face looks like the face of a crook. Turns out he is a crook. So I ask the following questions:

Did he always look like a crook?

Did his looks make people treat him like he was a crook and so he eventually behaved the way society treated him?

Or did his internal demeanor shape the way his face looks?

Does the face define the person, or does the person define the face?


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Are you doing a PhD in something? If not maybe you should be.. but only if you look smart.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

People give off an auro, and people pick up on it.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I think it's all about the eyes. I've been looking at eyes in a different way since we've all been wearing masks in public


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Lincoln said:


> I think it's all about the eyes. I've been looking at eyes in a different way since we've all been wearing masks in public


Women look beautiful when all you see is their eyes.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

player99 said:


> Women look beautiful when all you see is their eyes.


100% ^

There is some literature on facial feature and behaviour. Ear shape and nose shape and statistical connection to certain behaviours.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> People give off an auro, and people pick up on it.


Doesn't the auro surround the nipple?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> You see a guy whose face looks like the face of a crook. Turns out he is a crook. So I ask the following questions:
> 
> Did he always look like a crook?
> 
> ...


What does a crook look like?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> What does a crook look like?


Someone you look at and say to yourself "This guy is not to be trusted."


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> Someone you look at and say to yourself "This guy is not to be trusted."


Not too sure if Dastardly was a crook any more than Whiplash was....they were more into tieing up young women to railway tracks. I'd probably trust him more than Yogi and Boo Boo.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Lincoln said:


> I think it's all about the eyes. I've been looking at eyes in a different way since we've all been wearing masks in public


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)




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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

What if he is 2 face ?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

There's a difference between the face, as a simple configuration of physical features, and facial *expression*. Our assessment of someone's character is more predicated on their expression, which is dynamic and changing in response to interaction, rather than what gets captured in a static image.

One of the more interesting papers I read some years back examined adult responses to children as a function of whether they looked older or younger than their chronological age. Research participants were shown head-and-shoulders photos of children that were either 6 or 11 years old, IIRC, and described a fairly "normative" misbehaviour engaged in by that child (so nobody beat someone to death or stole a car). The adults were asked what they would do about it. All photos were independently rated by a second group of adults for whether the children looked older or younger than their age. When the younger children looked "older" for their age, adults were more likely to recommend some form of punishment or discipline for the misdeed, and when the child looked younger than their stated age, they were more likely to be "let off" or only reprimanded. For the older group (age 11), disciplinary actions recommended by observers tended to be more lenient when the child looked "old for their age". The interpretation was that when young children strike us as more "mature", on the basis of how they look, we think that they "should have known better", and treat their misbehaviour as more of a transgression, rather than a simple naive mistake. In the case of the older children, the more mature-looking child is assumed to learn from the consequences of their misbehaviour, where the younger-looking ones needed to be "taught a lesson". In general, observers' responses reflected a tacit theory/view of children's emerging moral awareness and development, which is influenced by where on that scale the child *looks* like they are.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Doesn't the auro surround the nipple?


Pam Grier's nipple?


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Doesn't the auro surround the nipple?


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

“In general, thieves are notable for their expressive faces and manual dexterity, small wandering eyes that are often oblique in form, thick and close eyebrows, distorted or squashed noses, thin beards and hair, and sloping foreheads. Like rapists, they often have jug ears. Rapists, however, nearly always have sparkling eyes, delicate features, and swollen lips and eyelids. Most of them are frail; some are hunchbacked.”


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> What does a crook look like?



If he's a smart crook he'll look like a mama's boy. 
I don't think being a crook and facial features have anything to do with each other. Its the innocent looking ones you have to watch out for.
Have you never been told don't judge a book by its cover?
I know this guy that is big and mean and very intimidating looking. Rides a Harley, looks like a tough mean biker gang guy and has a heart of gold. Couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag and wouldn't even think of trying. But boy does he get mis characterized a lot.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> If he's a smart crook he'll look like a mama's boy.
> I don't think being a crook and facial features have anything to do with each other. Its the innocent looking ones you have to watch out for.
> Have you never been told don't judge a book by its cover?
> I know this guy that is big and mean and very intimidating looking. Rides a Harley, looks like a tough mean biker gang guy and has a heart of gold. Couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag and wouldn't even think of trying. But boy does he get mis characterized a lot.


You would never see a SMART crook. Now the dumb ones, well they're pretty easy to spot


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> If he's a smart crook he'll look like a mama's boy.
> I don't think being a crook and facial features have anything to do with each other. Its the innocent looking ones you have to watch out for.
> Have you never been told don't judge a book by its cover?
> I know this guy that is big and mean and very intimidating looking. Rides a Harley, looks like a tough mean biker gang guy and has a heart of gold. Couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag and wouldn't even think of trying. But boy does he get mis characterized a lot.


True, especially when the ones mischaracterizing and profiling have shiny brown shoes and a yellow stripe down their pants legs. 


Doug Gifford said:


> “In general, thieves are notable for their expressive faces and manual dexterity, small wandering eyes that are often oblique in form, thick and close eyebrows, distorted or squashed noses, thin beards and hair, and sloping foreheads. Like rapists, they often have jug ears. Rapists, however, nearly always have sparkling eyes, delicate features, and swollen lips and eyelids. Most of them are frail; some are hunchbacked.”


You don't say.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> Pam Grier's nipple?


Well, if you insist.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

Electraglide said:


> True, especially when the ones mischaracterizing and profiling have shiny brown shoes and a yellow stripe down their pants legs.
> 
> You don't say.
> View attachment 347750


I knew a guy who was totally disarming, especially with the ladies and little kids. He looked alot like Santa, and my ex commented that it would be like "going on a date with Santa" , if you went out with Bill.

He was my best friend for the last 7 years of his life, and the best friend I ever had...totally honest at all the right times...

He was also a hard core reformed gangster. Things of his past that he told me made my jaw drop, as i`ve always detested organized bike clubs and organized crime. Once when he sensed that i didn`t believe one of his stories, he calmly walked over to his entertainment center, pulled out a photo album. He opened it to a page and handed it to me. What i saw was a write up in an east coat paper relating the story just as he had told to me...without the details of who and why of course.

I would trust Billy with anything, yet if i had met him in his twenties he most likely would have sent me to intensive care in an ambulance.

"does the face define the person. or does the person define the face"...neither, that`s all horse shit. Actions define all.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

player99 said:


>


I was in the initial round of prospective jurors for the Bernardo trial. I actually "made it" to the final round of cuts (both sides get a certain number of cuts they can use if they dont like the potential juror)
I stood about 15 ft away from him when being questioned to determine fitness for jury duty.
There was nothing evil or unpleasant about his eyes or face. He looked unassuming, neither masculine or feminine, just a regular "nice-guy", I could walk past a hundred guys like him every day while in university. Probably why the prosecution rejected me from the jury selection lol. Glad they did. My name still got printed in MacLeans magazine after being cut though. Its weird when ppl have said they googled me and it came up. Why did you google me?

A guy I knew through hockey, who played in the minor leagues (I wont publish his name as he still has connections in this area) had a few brief encounters with Geoffrey Dahmer as well when playing in his town. Similar experience.

So to the OP, you cant always judge a book by its cover. Lots of evil people are initially quite magnetic, likeable and its effective to get access to you and have you let your guard down. Ted Bundy also comes to mind. Various celebs as well that are part of the #metoo phenomenon like Bill Cosby.

And to the original question, all of the above.

Bad:









Good:









Bad:









Good:









Bad:








Good:


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

Electraglide said:


> Well, if you insist.
> View attachment 347751


See, right there...
That’s a suspicious rack,
I think I’ll have to look further into this.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Diablo said:


> I was in the initial round of prospective jurors for the Bernardo trial. I actually "made it" to the final round of cuts (both sides get a certain number of cuts they can use if they dont like the potential juror)
> I stood about 15 ft away from him when being questioned to determine fitness for jury duty.
> There was nothing evil or unpleasant about his eyes or face. He looked unassuming, neither masculine or feminine, just a regular "nice-guy", I could walk past a hundred guys like him every day while in university. Probably why the prosecution rejected me from the jury selection lol. Glad they did. My name still got printed in MacLeans magazine after being cut though. Its weird when ppl have said they googled me and it came up. Why did you google me?
> 
> ...


Maggs used to live 3-doors down from the Homolka's (where they killed her sister Tammy). Shortly after her (Homolka - not Maggs) being freed from jail she visited her parents. We were walking the dogs as she arrived and she stepped out of the car as we walked past, maybe 12 feet away. I looked into her eyes and knew immediately that she was evil. I remember it clear as day.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

allthumbs56 said:


> Maggs used to live 3-doors down from the Homolka's. Shortly after her being freed from jail she visited her parents. We were walking the dogs as she arrived and she stepped out of the car as we walked past, maybe 12 feet away. I looked into her eyes. She was evil.


i always thought she was the worst of the 2.
as savage as humans can be to each other...but to help rape and kill your own little sister.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

And the dipshit cop who let her go and hid the tapes was rewarded by being made the chief of police in Ottawa.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

A teenager, whose parents are both psychologists, is having a talking dinner with the parents because bad marks and remarks appears on the school file at the end of the session. Parents are awaiting some answer to the question : "Could you explain these bad results ?".
The teenager stared at both psychologists parents and say : "I hesitate between genetics and environment".
Clearly both are always participating in modeling a face : I would say genetics makes the bones and muscles while environment triggers how they are used and react, so modeling the face.
Contrary to the moto "One is not what he does", my lifetime experience proved me so many times that one's acts talk more about him than what he says.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

One tends not to hear much about either stupid or ugly sociopaths. Not that they don't exist. Rather, by virtue of halo effects ( Halo effect - Wikipedia ), we ascribe positive motives and characteristics to people if they strike us as attractive. And if they're smart enough, and so inclined, they will learn to take advantage of those misattributions and exploit people in some manner. Ugly stupid sociopaths have considerably less success so they tend not to come to our attention via their misdeeds. The management and organizational behaviour literature is replete with examples of sociopath managers that impressed people, only to screw them over.

So it's not that there is any sort of "criminal face". But there ARE people who make deceptive use of their appeal, and others who simply can not because others find them unattractive or at least "plain".

Maybe Jimmy Soul had it right, as sexist as his view may have been.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Going by the news out of Indianapolis you should be careful when you shout at your kid. 
Elmo? Bad? Surely not.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Not too sure if his dad was our milkman when I lived on Lulu Island but Clifford Olson lived across the fields from us. Years later I was living in Burnaby when he was doing his thing. Mom used to say he was not a nice kid.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Here's an adorable little child. His name is Adolf.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Here's an adorable little child. His name is Adolf.


Had to be because of the hair cut.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

I think assessing people by their facial features or facial expressions could lead to trouble


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

or more recently....

Can`t say that the "evil" is immediately detectable by appearance.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Elmo? Bad? Surely not.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

What about "resting bitch face"?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 347805


For some reason ladies seem to like the tickle me version.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> For some reason ladies seem to like the tickle me version.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 347808


great contribution to the spankbank!


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

player99 said:


> What about "resting bitch face"?


It is real.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

player99 said:


> And the dipshit cop who let her go and hid the tapes was rewarded by being made the chief of police in Ottawa.


That's news. AFAIK it was Homolka lawyer that retrieved and sat on the tapes until Homolka had her "deal". Do you have a link to the details, please. I've tried to stay up to date on this.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

player99 said:


> Women look beautiful when all you see is their eyes.


in some situations, i would agree









in others, maybe not so much


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 347808


As the Beach Boys said, Good, Good, Good Vibrations.


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## Stephenlouis (Jun 24, 2019)

If you are interested in psychopathology and social behavior there is a book called "What the Face Reveals: Basic and Applied Studies of Spontaneous Expression Using the Facial Action Coding System (FACS)" that you may enjoy. I read it years ago, and thought it was pretty interesting.


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

I saw this post,and thought of this...


__
http://instagr.am/p/CKjtTKLg5WP/


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Stephenlouis said:


> If you are interested in psychopathology and social behavior there is a book called "What the Face Reveals: Basic and Applied Studies of Spontaneous Expression Using the Facial Action Coding System (FACS)" that you may enjoy. I read it years ago, and thought it was pretty interesting.


FACS was co-developed by Paul Ekman, a noted expert on emotional expression and lying, who was the basis for that short-lived TV series with Tim Roth, called "Lie to Me". Ekman also published a terrific book called "Why Kids Lie". Not a how-to parenting guide, it nonetheless provides an easy to digest plan for raising children who default to deception less often and readily. They're _all_ going to do it at some point. The question is whether they develop exceptional skill at it and do it as easily as they walk or talk. You probably want to avoid creating descendants like that.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)




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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

player99 said:


> What about "resting bitch face"?


Indeed.

Was out for a walk the other day. Guy I somewhat know yells out at me: "come on, smile, life's not that bad…" Up to that point I was perfectly content with the sunshine and my own thoughts.

Assholes.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

ezcomes said:


> I saw this post,and thought of this...
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CKjtTKLg5WP/


i once dated a girl with bell's palsey. she was really self conscious about it. i LOVED her smile, it made her look like she was mildly amused all the time. it fit her personality well. actually, i loved almost everything about her. her single flaw was the one i could not learn to live with. it wasn't the bell's palsey. i liked that about her


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

cheezyridr said:


> i once dated a girl with bell's palsey. she was really self conscious about it. i LOVED her smile, it made her look like she was mildly amused all the time. it fit her personality well. actually, i loved almost everything about her. her single flaw was the one i could not learn to live with. it wasn't the bell's palsey. i liked that about her


What's the flaw...?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Maybe she finished his sentences too often?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Paul Running said:


> View attachment 347919
> View attachment 347921


A good movie.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

player99 said:


> What's the flaw...?


she was incapable of monogamy.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

cheezyridr said:


> she was incapable of monogamy.


Does bell's palsy cause promiscuity or does promiscuity cause bell's palsy?


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

player99 said:


> What about "resting bitch face"?


And your point is?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Lola said:


> And your point is?


It sounds like you are not familiar with that term? It means some people's face naturally at rest makes them look angry or bitchy. So I am asking how that figures into the equation.

As Doug Gifford pointed out in post # 51. His internal demeanour was of good nature, but someone else saw his face and thought his expression was one of unhappiness.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Resting Bitch Face: How to Fix Your RBF Forever (With Science)


Resting bitch face (RBF) is a problem dealt with by women and the occasional man that makes them look irritated, upset, or otherwise unhappy.



www.scienceofpeople.com


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Resting Bitch Face: How to Fix Your RBF Forever (With Science)
> 
> 
> Resting bitch face (RBF) is a problem dealt with by women and the occasional man that makes them look irritated, upset, or otherwise unhappy.
> ...


And a lot of time some of them are.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

laristotle said:


> Resting Bitch Face: How to Fix Your RBF Forever (With Science)
> 
> 
> Resting bitch face (RBF) is a problem dealt with by women and the occasional man that makes them look irritated, upset, or otherwise unhappy.
> ...


Thats funny...I didnt know it was a thing.
I tease my wife about it...her and her father have this natural scowl. Im a far bigger asshole and less social than she is but until she speaks, strangers, children, find me the more approachable one.

I think Canadians in general have a problem with this....you smile at someone randomly in passing and 90% of them wont smile back, avert their gaze or even scowl harder. we may be nice, good people, globally speaking, but we just look miserable. Americans play this game much better than we do.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I thought we had accidentally stumbled onto the solution to RBF: face masks.

But on a reverse sort of tangent, do you ever find that when someone's face bears a resemblance to the face of someone you already know and like - perhaps a close friend or relative - that you kind of like them right away?


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

mhammer said:


> I thought we had accidentally stumbled onto the solution to RBF: face masks.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 348049


its funny...i think thats a woman, yet with some of those masks could easily pass for a male.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

laristotle said:


> View attachment 348049


If you want the "full" look, bassist Lee Sklar is selling t-shirts that have the image of his full beard printed on them.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Diablo said:


> its funny...i think thats a woman, yet with some of those masks could easily pass for a male.


Like Yellowbeard's Mr Prostitute?


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

player99 said:


> Does bell's palsy cause promiscuity or does promiscuity cause bell's palsy?


in her case, it may have been dna. her mother was an unapologetic slut.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

How come women are "unapologetic sluts" but guys are "players"?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

mhammer said:


> How come women are "unapologetic sluts" but guys are "players"?


We don't get to hear what women call us when they get together.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

mhammer said:


> How come women are "unapologetic sluts" but guys are "players"?


Considering the source of the comment I wouldn’t have a hard time believing that any woman after a while as his partner would be looking to fuck anything else.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

mhammer said:


> How come women are "unapologetic sluts" but guys are "players"?





player99 said:


> We don't get to hear what women call us when they get together.


I've heard 'mutts' before. Mostly a$$hole though.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Diablo said:


> I think Canadians in general have a problem with this....you smile at someone randomly in passing and 90% of them wont smile back, avert their gaze or even scowl harder.


In my experience this is an urban thing.
And I did it myself (the scowl thing) in that environment. It's a protection mechanism I think. One wrong microsecond of eye contact and you've got a new 'buddy for life'.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Diablo said:


> I think Canadians in general have a problem with this....you smile at someone randomly in passing and 90% of them wont smile back, avert their gaze or even scowl harder. we may be nice, good people, globally speaking, but we just look miserable. Americans play this game much better than we do.


Twenty years back I was teaching an Intro Psych class of 1100. There were 350 registered for the "in-class" section, and another 750 taking the course via cable TV (or if they were far away, by VHS tapes of the lectures shipped to them). Because somewhere well over 1000 of the students were in town or nearby, exams were scheduled on Saturdays on campus, so that there would be all these empty available classrooms to place the test-takers into, and a squadron of proctors hired to oversee things, one per room. The first exam, I parked at one end of the campus and walked to the other side, to meet with all the proctors before the exam. My students were sitting outside, occupying every single bench on campus, cramming beforehand. The weird and unexpected thing was that wherever I walked, there were all these people - hundreds of them - I had never met or seen before, all reading the same book, and looking up at me and smiling. They knew *me*, from the TV screen, but I had never seen *them*. It was creepy, and felt like a Twilight Zone episode. I don't have or expect resting scowls, but when there's all these different people, for several blocks, who behave as if they know you, and want your approval, it's a weird feeling. A room of applause wouldn't be weird. But walking 20yds and meeting a few, then some more 20yds later, then some more after you turn the corner, and some more 10yds after that....

To this day, if someone smiles at me, my first thought is "Do I know them from somewhere, like a class?". A legitimate thought, because on several occasions, for a few years afterward, I would run into former students in unexpected places. Had to pull over to a rest stop and put in some engine oil on the 401 near Brockville once, and had trouble getting the cap off. Garage mechanic comes over to assist and asks "Did I have you as my psych prof?". Weird.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

mhammer said:


> Twenty years back I was teaching an Intro Psych class of 1100. There were 350 registered for the "in-class" section, and another 750 taking the course via cable TV (or if they were far away, by VHS tapes of the lectures shipped to them). Because somewhere well over 1000 of the students were in town or nearby, exams were scheduled on Saturdays on campus, so that there would be all these empty available classrooms to place the test-takers into, and a squadron of proctors hired to oversee things, one per room. The first exam, I parked at one end of the campus and walked to the other side, to meet with all the proctors before the exam. My students were sitting outside, occupying every single bench on campus, cramming beforehand. The weird and unexpected thing was that wherever I walked, there were all these people - hundreds of them - I had never met or seen before, all reading the same book, and looking up at me and smiling. They knew *me*, from the TV screen, but I had never seen *them*. It was creepy, and felt like a Twilight Zone episode. I don't have or expect resting scowls, but when there's all these different people, for several blocks, who behave as if they know you, and want your approval, it's a weird feeling. A room of applause wouldn't be weird. But walking 20yds and meeting a few, then some more 20yds later, then some more after you turn the corner, and some more 10yds after that....
> 
> To this day, if someone smiles at me, my first thought is "Do I know them from somewhere, like a class?". A legitimate thought, because on several occasions, for a few years afterward, I would run into former students in unexpected places. Had to pull over to a rest stop and put in some engine oil on the 401 near Brockville once, and had trouble getting the cap off. Garage mechanic comes over to assist and asks "Did I have you as my psych prof?". Weird.


Reminds me of the time theory that everything is happening at once, instead of over hours, days, years etc. Your adoration was spread out instead of all at once.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


> I've heard 'mutts' before. Mostly a$$hole though.


Most of the women I know will call you what they think of you right to your face. 


mhammer said:


> How come women are "unapologetic sluts" but guys are "players"?


Guys can be sluts, unapologetic or not. All it takes is a couple of shots and some wet t-shirt contest winners. 








Never heard of a male cougar before but it could happen.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Problem solved. You can't smile at anyone anymore.


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## fretzel (Aug 8, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> Most of the women I know will call you what they think of you right to your face.
> 
> Guys can be sluts, unapologetic or not. All it takes is a couple of shots and some wet t-shirt contest winners.
> View attachment 348204
> ...


Is that Pam Grier doing white face?


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Never heard of a male cougar before but it could happen.


Sugar daddies.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

mhammer said:


> How come women are "unapologetic sluts" but guys are "players"?


one can claim to be feminist all they want to, but certain things are fact, no matter how much one might want to pretend otherwise. a key that fits any lock is a master key. a lock that's opened by any key, is a shitty lock. 
that said, the idea of it being cool for a guy to be a manwhore is pretty out dated. i don't know about the people you might hang out with, but among my friends and family, a man who cheats on his wife is considered a piece of shit. no one with any scruples gives him a pass for it.



tdotrob said:


> Considering the source of the comment I wouldn’t have a hard time believing that any woman after a while as his partner would be looking to fuck anything else.


i don't really understand the need for a personal attack. i don't remember directing any of this at you. however, i will give you some clarity on my posts.

1) the unapologetic slut was referring to her mother. i say it's a fair call considering that she lived with her fiance 2 blocks up the same street as me, but used to come to my house and party with her boyfriend every couple weeks. she also had a side boyfriend who would show up every now and again. the fiance didn't know about the boyfriends, and the boyfriends didn't know about each other. 

2) the girl i was talking about, when i said she was "incapable of monagamy" i was trying to be kind. partly because she's dead now. know what killed her? a virus that caused cervical cancer. i'll let you do you're own research if you don't know what i'm talking about. short version is, being a slut literally was the death of her. we grew up in the same neighborhood. i knew her most of her life. she was never monogamous or truthful about that fact, to anyone who didn't already know how she was. when i was seeing her, there was no pretense that i was "the only one". however, for lots of guys, that wasn't the case. i can't tell you how many guys i met who got fooled, and didn't know they were a side piece. the fights, suicide attempts, and pathetic behaviors were common. as i said earlier, she grew up on my street.
but aside from that, she was a really cool person. she'd go out of her way to help someone in need. she could be very caring. in fact, she cared for me once when i was sick. i didn't ask her to, she heard i was sick, and just showed up. she was fun to be around, aside from the sex thing. she was gorgeous, and knew how to make the most of that. she was smart, and could do alot of various things from tuning up your v8, to sewing a patch on your work pants, or cooking fantastic meals. she was my friend, i cared for her alot. we had alot of shared experiences over the years. i accepted her for who she was, but i couldn't allow her to be more than that, for reasons that should be obvious. she's been dead more than a decade, and i hadn't seen her for about a decade before that. for whatever reason, she's been on my mind lately.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

player99 said:


> Reminds me of the time theory that everything is happening at once, instead of over hours, days, years etc. Your adoration was spread out instead of all at once.


I think it was more a case of please-don't-hurt-me smiles, or simply hey-there's-the-guy-from-the-TV smiles of recognition.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Twenty years back I was teaching an Intro Psych class of 1100. There were 350 registered for the "in-class" section, and another 750 taking the course via cable TV (or if they were far away, by VHS tapes of the lectures shipped to them). Because somewhere well over 1000 of the students were in town or nearby, exams were scheduled on Saturdays on campus, so that there would be all these empty available classrooms to place the test-takers into, and a squadron of proctors hired to oversee things, one per room. The first exam, I parked at one end of the campus and walked to the other side, to meet with all the proctors before the exam. My students were sitting outside, occupying every single bench on campus, cramming beforehand. The weird and unexpected thing was that wherever I walked, there were all these people - hundreds of them - I had never met or seen before, all reading the same book, and looking up at me and smiling. They knew *me*, from the TV screen, but I had never seen *them*. It was creepy, and felt like a Twilight Zone episode. I don't have or expect resting scowls, but when there's all these different people, for several blocks, who behave as if they know you, and want your approval, it's a weird feeling. A room of applause wouldn't be weird. But walking 20yds and meeting a few, then some more 20yds later, then some more after you turn the corner, and some more 10yds after that....
> 
> To this day, if someone smiles at me, my first thought is "Do I know them from somewhere, like a class?". A legitimate thought, because on several occasions, for a few years afterward, I would run into former students in unexpected places. Had to pull over to a rest stop and put in some engine oil on the 401 near Brockville once, and had trouble getting the cap off. Garage mechanic comes over to assist and asks "Did I have you as my psych prof?". Weird.


I think that’s where things went wrong, when our first reaction to a strangers smile became fear, creepiness etc.

whats interesting is, what happened since the old times when a man would tip his hat to a passing lady, she would smile and nod, and they both go about their day...and not think the other wanted something or were a serial killer? What happened to social etiquette? When did we start to act like prison inmates who go on high alert or attack from the wrong look from someone?

is it media induced fear, or changes in society due to immigration etc?

if I don’t get good answers, I’m blaming the rock and roll music.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

mhammer said:


> How come women are "unapologetic sluts" but guys are "players"?


That question has already been addressed and resolved.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Diablo said:


> I think that’s where things went wrong, when our first reaction to a strangers smile became fear, creepiness etc.
> 
> whats interesting is, what happened since the old times when a man would tip his hat to a passing lady, she would smile and nod, and they both go about their day...and not think the other wanted something or were a serial killer? What happened to social etiquette? When did we start to act like prison inmates who go on high alert or attack from the wrong look from someone?


I don't think social etiquette is gone. People still want to engage in it, but the pox of social media and adolescent scandalizing of anything and everything has made the rules more complex, obtuse, and harder to comprehend. Then there's the sad reality of people looking more at their phone than at your facial expression.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

fretzel said:


> Is that Pam Grier doing white face?


Nope, all too young.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

People tell me I look bored or angry--when I am not.
So who knows.
I get told I look so serious when I play.
Which in a way I appreciate
I tell them if I'm smiling or laughing I probably just made a mistake.


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