# Help from some fellow teachers please



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

As I was showing one of my students (11 year old) how to play a n open G chord with his 3rd finger on G (low E string), 2nd on B (A string), and pinky on G (high E) for the song we're working out (Mother), I saw that he was holding his pinky in a very unfriendly and possibly painful position on his fretting hand. I tried doing what he was doing so I could correct him, but after 1 attempt, it occured to me that that little sucker is freakin double jointed on both hands with his finger tip joint. I'm talking extreme here guys, 90 degree angle backwards.

I seriously have to exploit this natural talent in some way if it isn't detrimental to his joint health. I asked him to play the G with his pinky on both the high E (G on 3rd fret) and B string (D on 3rd fret). No problem whatsoever for him..didn't even hurt. So since he can play parallel strings with the end finger joints, has anyone come across this or seen reference material for this? I don't know if it will cause issues with his joints later on, or at the present, so I really need some insight into how to approach this. I'm not familiar with double jointed structures in the body and I do not want to pursue exploiting it if it can cause a health issue in the joints now or in the future.

Thanks in advance....I'll be doing some research on this as well.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Sorry. I've never had a double jointed student that I was aware of. You probably want to talk to his parents about it and maybe consult with a physiotherapist. It would be great if he could exploit that motion without doing lasting harm.

I know that Tommy Emmanuel's hands allow him to do things that other people just can't do. My understanding is that because he started so young and played so much, they just grew that way.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

To clarify, I am not a teacher. However, I am a retired paediatric physiotherapist.

This is called joint laxity and results in varying degrees of hypermobility (i.e., increased movement at the joints). He should be seen by a physician as there might be other joints involved and (possibly) a significant underlying condition (e.g., hypotonia.... decreased muscle tone, etc.).

@Dorian2 You are very wise in holding off with the lessons until this has been medically investigated. If he has been diagnosed in the past, you would be wise to seek information about the diagnosis from his parents and obtain clearance that learning to play guitar will not subject him to possible present or future joint problems (as you mentioned as being your concern).


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Thanks guys. I'll have a chat with his folks to see what's up. Considering the student didn't know that he was double jointed, I'll assume for the time that his parents may be unaware of this. I'll talk to them about the Physiotherapist and Physician recommendation. I'll definitely see if he's been diagnosed with any condition with them. This is why I posted here guys....I figured there would be someone with at least related experience either in teaching or professionally, like you Greco.

Thanks....hopefully all is well because this kid is pretty keen on guitar playing.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Dorian2 said:


> ...hopefully all is well because this kid is pretty keen on guitar playing.


Everything could turn out to be OK from the perspective of him continuing to learn to play the guitar.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

greco said:


> Everything could turn out to be OK from the perspective of him continuing to learn to play the guitar.


I'd like to think so. During his last lesson when I asked him to play the note straight up and down with each digit, he could without too much effort. Although it was obvious that he had to work at it more than a "normal" player would. Thanks again for your advice Greco, much appreciated.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Any updates?


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

If you're referring to the distal interphalangeal joint bending backwards, yes, I've seen that. I'm sure there's a medical concern (thanks Greco!) and there is a technique concern. In my experience watching players plant fingers on strings and have that joint bend backwards, I've noticed it takes longer to get sufficient pressure on the string to sound a clear note and longer to lift the finger off the string for a smooth transition to its next note. Sometimes it appears to be simply a matter of weakness in younger hands.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I think it's all good. Thanks for the advice. His fingers don't bend as much as I initially thought...on closer inspection.


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## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

My fingers are double jointed. I'm in my mid-forties now, they don't bend as much as they used to. I've never had an issue with it playing the guitar.

I'm not sure how exploitable it is, no one thought to teach me anything unusual. I only remember once a guitar teacher commenting on how I was holding a chord and saying that I should be getting fret buzz, but it was just as easy for me to do it "wrong". That may have been a C6 type chord where I could hold both 2nd fret notes with my middle finger.

If I play a d note on the b-string of a C type chord, I play it differently, maybe with more available pressure, but it isn't any better or easier. Mostly it just puts my wrist in the wrong position.

I can sometimes squish my fingers a bit closer to the fret.

I suspect there are lots of chords on the mandolin where you are expected to cover two strings with one finger.

You have to teach as light a touch as possible.


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