# Which powered PA cabs???



## hollowbody

I'm looking for a decent pair of PA cabs to use for rehearsals, but also to play out in smaller venues that don't have dedicated sound gear. I've been renting or borrowing for the last little bit, but I want to put together something that I can make use of in rehearsals as well as for playing out so that I'm familiar with the gear and not scratching my head as to how things work.

So far, my PA rack is the following:

Mackie CR 1604

that's it 

I'm planning on getting an inexpensive used reverb unit and maybe a rack case for the two of them, but I can't imagine what else I'd need (maybe a compressor?)

Anywho, that's not germane to this discussion. What I'm looking for is advice as to what powered PA cabs are out there for me.

My needs are:
1 - something loud enough to fill a small to mid sized venue. I imagine anywhere we play that's larger than that will have a dedicated system (or we can rent). I'm thinking around 500w per side?
2 - something fairly light. I don't want to have to lug 100lb cabs up a flight of stairs
3 - something that can "fill" the room with just 2 cabs. I don't want to look at getting subs for now, so I'd like to find something that can be fairly convincing with just the 2 main cabs. I'll add some powered subs later when I have the cash.

In terms of spending, I'd really like to go used to maximize my cash, but obviously if what I want isn't available, then I'll have to go new. I'm thinking maybe $2000 for the pair tops?

I've been looking at the Yorkville NX-55, but I'm concerned about whether with the single 12" it will be able to sound "full" without a sub.


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## fudb

Hmmmm... I think I'd probably go with QSC speakers over the Yorkvilles. You should be able to get a pair of 15's for your budget plus taxes... I've mixed on those yorkies before they're good but there's better to be had for similar money these days IMO.


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## hollowbody

Hmm...slow day at work means too much internet searching.

Here's a couple more thoughts. I'd like to be able to also use these powered cabs as monitors in situations where we need them, so many staying with 12" isn't a bad idea.

Another thought. Is it better to go with something less powerful and add a sub? Like 200 watt mains and cutoff the bass at 100-150hz and route that to a 200w powered sub? I'm trying to have as flexible as system for as cheap as possible.

I saw some recommendations for QSC elsewhere as well. I'm familiar with their amps, but have never heard their speakers. I'll check them out. Looks like a trip to L&M is in my future


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## fudb

hollowbody said:


> Another thought. Is it better to go with something less powerful and add a sub? Like 200 watt mains and cutoff the bass at 100-150hz and route that to a 200w powered sub? I'm trying to have as flexible as system for as cheap as possible.


Not in my experience. You're better off getting more powerful mains. The bass amp will usually fill nicely with stage wash in a smaller place.. If you're playing a bigger show, you can just rent a crossover, amp and sub. A couple of times in a pinch I've run the bass through the mixer and sent from the mixer to the bass amp both bass and kick drum.... Works better than you might think.


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## marcos

Get something with 15 in. speakers as I have found that 12 inchers just dont have the bottom end and you will have to buy subs afterwards. As far as brand well its pretty much up to you. There are so many out there and everyone has a different opinion.Good luck with your search.


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## ronmac

I keep NX25P(250w 12"), NX55P (550w 12"), EF500P (800w 15" wood cabinet) and QSC HPR122i (500w 12" wood cabinet) for use in everything from "popsickle stick" gigs to full blown festival shows. If you can swing the extra dough for the wooden box models go for it. They are much more focussed and have more even low end extension than the molded cabinet models.

For your budget you should be able to pick up 2 gently used EF500P (they go for $1500 each new). The only downside is weight.


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## hollowbody

Any opinions on the Mackie SRM450v2? The price on this one is really nice, except it's 400w instead of 550w like the NX55P. Those two are probably the front runners right now for what I'm looking for. I can probably add subs down the road to either one if I feel it's necessary.


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## washburned

around here most small venues we can get by with just miking vocals and acoustic instruments, so for that twelves are great. if you want to add bass or drums definitely at least a 15" cab.


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## bbigsby

What are you putting through the PA? Acoustic, bass drum, and vocals.
Are you a coverband playing pubs or will you be playing large rooms.

If you are playing small to med rooms the Mackie SRM450's are more than enough. They have a huge bass, reasonable weight and sound like 15's. 

Don't go by watts. Mackies although they are rated at 450 watts they are extremely efficient, very loud and clear.


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## hollowbody

bbigsby said:


> What are you putting through the PA? Acoustic, bass drum, and vocals.
> Are you a coverband playing pubs or will you be playing large rooms.


Like washburned, at smaller shows we just put acoustics and vocals through the PA and leave drums and guitars unmic'd, but I want to have the flexibility to mic all the instruments as well if I need to. We're a cover band playing mostly small to mid sized bars. We're certainly not going to be playing anywhere really large like Tattoo Rock Parlour, etc. 

Our band is made up this way:
4x vocals - 3 people take turns doing leads, whoever's not doing leads is usually singing backups, so there's always at least 2 or 3 people singing per song.
3x guitars - usually 2 electrics and one acoustic, but sometimes 2 acoustics and 1 electric or 3 electrics
1x bass
drumkit



bbigsby said:


> They have a huge bass, reasonable weight and sound like 15's.


That's certainly encouraging. The only concern I have with going with 12" cabs as my mains is a lack of bass. Do you think the Mackie's can handle a full band going through them, though?



bbigsby said:


> Don't go by watts. Mackies although they are rated at 450 watts they are extremely efficient, very loud and clear.


Yeah, I definitely don't care much about the difference between 400 and 500 watts in terms of loudness, but I am concerned about headroom. I don't think I can afford something that offers 700-1000w, so the contenders I'm looking at are all in the 400-500w range.

I'm hoping to keep the budget down. In the cheaper range I've got the Mackie SRM450 and the Yorkie NX55P and in the slightly pricier range I've got the QSC HPR122 and the Yorkie NX750P.

For what I'm going to be doing, is there any justification for spending more on the quality of the QSC or the extra power of the NX750P?

Also, as much as I'd love a wood-cab speaker, I think I'll stick with plastic for now, just to save on weight.


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## Milkman

QSC makes nice powered boxes, but for the K series, which is the only QSC line I've heard that is significantly better sounding than Yorkvilles, the price is still pretty high (just under $1000 each, maybe $800).

Also, it's important to note that the QSC are not designed to array, making expansion tricky.


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## hollowbody

Milkman said:


> QSC makes nice powered boxes, but for the K series, which is the only QSC line I've heard that is significantly better sounding than Yorkvilles, the price is still pretty high (just under $1000 each, maybe $800).
> 
> Also, it's important to note that the QSC are not designed to array, making expansion tricky.


I'm not sure I'll need to expand to an array setup. Hell, if my band gets big enough to need that sort of juice, I'll be happy as a clam to spend $$$ on some serious PA gear.

I think the only significant upgrade I will make to the 2 powered main setup is 2 powered subs eventually and then run the mains with a 100hz cutoff.

Looks like the HPR line is discontinued, so the QSC K12 is the newer contender. 1000w of juice is certainly enticing, but yeah, the costs might defray the potential benefits. Although, if they're around 800-1000, that's actually not bad, because L&M has the Yorkie NX55Ps for $899.

Milkman, since you're a sound dude, I'm sure you have a ton of experience with all sorts of boxes. Ronmac already gave me some really good stuff to look at; is there anything else I should be looking at? Given my band setup that I posted above, and our needs, what's the best bang for the buck for us?

If it helps at all, we'll be running through a Mackie 1604.


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## bbigsby

Buy these and be done with it:

mackie powered speakers srm 450v2 **** new with stand 
call 9057380388 or cell 4167882331 thank you 

MACKIE POWERED SRM450V2

Honestly you cannot go wrong. They are loud, reasonable weight, lots of clean headroom, come with stands and can be resold on a dime. Always buy PA gear with resale in mind. The mobile Dj's love the mackies and if you ever go to sell them you should get $1000 for a quick sale.


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## urko99

hollowbody said:


> Any opinions on the Mackie SRM450v2? The price on this one is really nice, except it's 400w instead of 550w like the NX55P. Those two are probably the front runners right now for what I'm looking for. I can probably add subs down the road to either one if I feel it's necessary.


I Just Recently Picked up a pair of the Italian made Mackie srm450's for 500.00 a pair at Guitar Center, and I love them. Small, Lightweight 15" and horn cofiguration and I picked up a pair of the Italian 500 watt Vented powered 15" subs to go with them at 400.00 a piece.(not sure of the model number).
We use them for rehersal and small to medium gig's with no issues. These are the speakers that put Mackie on the map, and you cant go wrong with them. Nice Bright full range sound. The say that these out-perform the newer Mackie srm450v2'S. They do come up on CL, K or Stink Bay from Time to Time. Might be worth waiting for, and you'll stay within your budget easily. JMHO.


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## bluesmostly

The QSC K - I got a pair of the 12's to do exactly what you are talking about - have totally changed the game for PA/monitors. They are the size of a regular powered monitor, 1000 watts, 40lbs, and sound better than most 100+ pound giant PA speakers, and they are in your $ range I think. 


I use them as monitors and PA. For a small venue I use two out front and one on stage for monitor, and sometimes a sub. They even have a selector switch to add more thump (low freq) if you are using them without a sub. 

I tested them side by side with a number of equally expensive and mostly heavier speakers and they sounded better in every way imo. check them out, you will love them Hollow.


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## avalancheMM

I agree with bluesmostly, I, too just bought a pair of QSC K12's, after comparing them to many other brands, they are worth the few extra dollars. I originally wanted the JBL Eon g3's, going off of the reputation of the G2's, but they are absolutely terrible, I can't even describe How dissapointing their performance is. I tried the K12 against the Mackie 450V2, the EV, the JBL's, Peavey powered,etc, and the QSC was head and shoulders above the competition. The bass response from a 12" speaker is amazing, 6 year warranty, lightweight, 129db, 1000 watts. Go to your local PA shop and give them a try, this is a subjective decision and you need to decide for yourself, IMHO.

Regards


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## Milkman

I may pick up a K12 set and a couple of the powered subs but only for small rooms. When you get to anything over 100 bodies, the reality is that in order to fill the room with sound, you are generating a LOT of SPL from a single tiny source. That means that anyone sitting in the line of fire is getting slaughtered in order for others to hear a nice full sound.

Everytype of system has its place. These boxes sound amazing in a small room.


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## hollowbody

Milkman said:


> I may pick up a K12 set and a couple of the powered subs but only for small rooms. When you get to anything over 100 bodies, the reality is that in order to fill the room with sound, you are generating a LOT of SPL from a single tiny source. That means that anyone sitting in the line of fire is getting slaughtered in order for others to hear a nice full sound.
> 
> Everytype of system has its place. These boxes sound amazing in a small room.


Yeah, that's realistically what I'm aiming at. We're playing mostly pubs and smaller places like that. If I ever see more than 100 people at one of our gigs, it'll be a pleasant surprise.

Do you think I would be better off getting a couple of lower-wattage speakers to function as mains on either side? Like 2 NX25s on each side?

I found a few good deals on the SRM450, but I'm kind of waiting around to see if I can kind a pair of K12s. Looks like I'll always be able to find a pair of the Mackie's for a reasonable price, so I'm not in a rush to jump on any of them.


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## Milkman

hollowbody said:


> Yeah, that's realistically what I'm aiming at. We're playing mostly pubs and smaller places like that. If I ever see more than 100 people at one of our gigs, it'll be a pleasant surprise.
> 
> Do you think I would be better off getting a couple of lower-wattage speakers to function as mains on either side? Like 2 NX25s on each side?
> 
> I found a few good deals on the SRM450, but I'm kind of waiting around to see if I can kind a pair of K12s. Looks like I'll always be able to find a pair of the Mackie's for a reasonable price, so I'm not in a rush to jump on any of them.


If you can find some K12s for a reasonablr price I think it would be hard to find a more punchy, compact and well balanced box. The Yorkville NX25s or NX55s would also sound great and cost a little less. The cool thing about the Yorkies is that if you do a bigger show you can simply add more boxes. They're designed to use in array type settings.

I have a couple of the non powered NX35 cabs and they sound quite good. I'm surprised at how ,much thump I can get out of them. The bottom end is better than I expected.


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## bluesmostly

Milkman said:


> I may pick up a K12 set and a couple of the powered subs but only for small rooms. When you get to anything over 100 bodies, the reality is that in order to fill the room with sound, you are generating a LOT of SPL from a single tiny source. That means that anyone sitting in the line of fire is getting slaughtered in order for others to hear a nice full sound.
> 
> Everytype of system has its place. These boxes sound amazing in a small room.


This is totally true in my experience and it has changed my philosophy and attitude about sound at live gigs. I don't care what type of room we are playing now or how many people are in it (50 or 500), we mix sound for the dance floor. period. 

That way no body gets hurt and they can still carry on conversations and if they want to hear the music, come on up to the dance floor. the kind of gear required to fill a good sized ball room with 500 people or more for example, with good quality sound, is extensive and expensive. Besides, I don't like to play at those kinds of volumes regardless of the room. 

If it is an outdoor or indoor concert setting, that is a different story and we rent gear or someone else pays to have the sound professionally done. 

Hey Hollow, I have a pair of Yorkie nx25's and one 55 that I might be able to sell if you want em.


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## hollowbody

bluesmostly said:


> Hey Hollow, I have a pair of Yorkie nx25's and one 55 that I might be able to sell if you want em.


I'll think about it and let you know, but I'm probably more interested in a pair of 55s than the 25s. So many choices!!!


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## Milkman

bluesmostly said:


> This is totally true in my experience and it has changed my philosophy and attitude about sound at live gigs. I don't care what type of room we are playing now or how many people are in it (50 or 500), we mix sound for the dance floor. period.
> 
> That way no body gets hurt and they can still carry on conversations and if they want to hear the music, come on up to the dance floor. the kind of gear required to fill a good sized ball room with 500 people or more for example, with good quality sound, is extensive and expensive. Besides, I don't like to play at those kinds of volumes regardless of the room.
> 
> If it is an outdoor or indoor concert setting, that is a different story and we rent gear or someone else pays to have the sound professionally done.



A wise approach.

I mix from the soundboard of course so it will be a little louder on the dance floor than where I'm sitting, but I'm generally somewhere in the middle of the room so I get a reasonable balance.

Of course, it will always be the people who choose to sit directly in front of the stacks who ask you to turn it down.


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