# Possible Mandatory Military Service in Canada.



## djmarcelca (Aug 2, 2012)

http://montrealsimon.blogspot.ca/2015/04/is-stephen-harper-planning-to-conscript.html

There's a story about Harper's possible plan to institute Mandatory Military Service for 1 Year Upon reaching 18 Yrs of age.

Personally I do not have a problem with this.
More than likely because I joined the Army when I was 17 anyway. (had to get my father's permission)
I spent my standard 3 year Contract and then released into civilian life.
it was a great time in my Life, Learned a lot of things I still kinda sorta use today. Taught tremendous mental discipline to an unorganized teen-aged mind. 

Plus it paid me a decent wage while I was in the final stages of growing up. I believe it's called Finding your self in 1960's slang. 

It's only a year and I think it'll have more benefits than people realize. 


Besides 1 year is barely enough time to get a soldier up to Canadian Military standards.
Basic training/Battle school is almost 6 months.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I have had/have several members of my large family join the armed forces. I have never seen where it has improved any of them as a person. When a person realizes what they are taught and trained to do and how it affects their thinking and outlook, a person may begin to see the adverse effects it has on a person that may last a lifetime. Some of the things they are subjected to during their training is listed below.

1) They are taught to kill. Some go on to make this a lifetime career becoming mercenaries and some committing murder and spending years in prison.
2) In order to change a person's thinking about killing the training is designed to desensitize the person. This affects the person's view of others as being less valuable.
3) They are taught to obey their superior's without question. We were made to reason and think for ourselves. Blindly following others has led to many performing deeds that are demoralizing and even illegal.
4) Morality, or, rather a lack of it, drinking and drugs are rife within the military.

There are other things as well but these are four of the worst.


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## GWN! (Nov 2, 2014)

Check the source of that. Basically an anti-Harper propaganda machine web-site.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

I've never been in the army but I still learned a lot in my seventeen (part of that being figure how not to go to the army )


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

It will never happen, at least in my lifetime. Now, if we were surrounded by aggressive, unfriendly neighbours, it might be a different story. We don't really have a particularly militaristic mindset in this country, generally speaking, and getting such a law passed would be practically impossible under our current form of government.

That being said I'm somewhat on the fence about it.

I can see the benefits of having a somewhat pre-trained population, however, I also see certain moral and ethical problems people might have with being trained to kill.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

As much as I hope Harper and the Conservatives go down in flames in the election that story is an obvious hoax. The links are hard coded. Check out the link that was supposedly changed. They type out the full link. The link they say it was changed to is hard coded and has nothing to do with the link that was typed out. It is an obvious attempt to discredit Harper. No idea why they would do this. His real record is bad enough.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

When one considers how much the Conservative platform has rested on the notion of deficit reduction and minimizing taxes as its raison d'etre, *and *when one considers how much achieving the nominally balanced budget rested on slashing the DND component of the public service and deferring major military purchases, *and* when one considers how much this government has backed away from supporting the Rangers in the North or cadets across the country, *and *when one considers the extent to which they had undermined support for veterans (only to shruggingly make moves to restoring it in the face of public pressure and embarassment), I honestly can't see them undertaking the sort of expenditure that this rumour suggests they might undertake. True, the Canadian Forces have been having a difficult time recruiting, and the various peacekeeping commitments we have in some tough places in the world have worn down those few who do serve in the CF, but it would mark a complete change in direction for this government (should they get re-elected to power...which is looking increasingly unlikely) to take on this sort of financial commitment.

So treat it as somebody's hallucination; maybe even somebody's attempt to start a false rumour for partisan purposes.

P.S.: THis belongs under the political sub-forum.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

We should have mandatory military service for all elected officials.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i always thought that what should be done is mandatory 18 months of civil service for all citizens when they reach 18. some to the military, some to other forms of gov't service like infrastructure improvement, parks & recreation, forestry & conservation, libraries, clerks, and things that need strong backs and simple minds. give them all minimum wage payable in one lump at the completion of their requirements, and assign by lottery except for conscientious objectors to military service.


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2015)

cheezyridr said:


> .. some to other forms of gov't service like infrastructure improvement, parks & recreation,
> forestry & conservation, libraries, clerks, and things that need strong backs and *simple minds*.


Oh, I can hear the unions screaming at that one. lol.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

The idea of conscription in the current climate (ie., no WWIII) is laughable. As noted, obvious hoax/political ploy...I mean, it's the lefties that take away civil liberties, not the right as the writer loudly proclaims.


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## Krelf (Jul 3, 2012)

Any political party sponsoring such an underhanded website would most definitely form a corrupt self-serving government if elected. After seeing this, I'd rather go with the devil I know!


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

laristotle said:


>


i'm pretty sure i've worked with those guys at some point. hahahaha


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

cheezyridr said:


> i always thought that what should be done is mandatory 18 months of civil service for all citizens when they reach 18. some to the military, some to other forms of gov't service like infrastructure improvement, parks & recreation, forestry & conservation, libraries, clerks, and things that need strong backs and simple minds. give them all minimum wage payable in one lump at the completion of their requirements, and assign by lottery_* except for conscientious objectors to military service.*_


If the civil service wasn't under the direction of the military, even conscientious objectors should have no problem with this if it is a mandatory requirement of the government. Many JW's do this in countries where there is forced conscription and the European Court has strongly urged a number of governments to make this available to conscientious objectors. In countries like Canada and the USA, this is part of the law.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Public service of some kind isn't a completely awful idea, if a somewhat awkward and potentially costly one.

There's a lot of things that young people can do in service of their country that doesn't involve being placed in harms way. Consider how many times the military has been called on to help out with domestic natural disasters. Consider the low-cost housing shortage that exists, and the factthat the folks who participate in Habitat for HUmanity aren't all licensed carpenters or construction workers.

In Ontario (and I suspect other provinces too), students have to complete 40 hours of volunteer service in order to graduate. What Cheesy suggests would basically be an extension of that.

Of course,:
- it does have to be balanced off against the safety of whatever people would be obligated to,
- it can't increase the unemloyment rate by depriving people of jobs,
- the administrative costs of setting it up and operatig it would need to be modest,
- it would have to be meaningful work, not picking up littler on the highway,
- but it would need to be aligned with the skill levels found in whatever target age range folks are thinking of,
- it probably shouldn't involve relocation, if possible (which goes back to costs),
- and a host of other things.

I suppose one might possibly connect it to student loans in some fashion, whether with respect to eligibility, or debt forgiveness.

BUT, I cannot emphasize enough that anything we tack on at the start of adulthood that delays entry into the full-time labour force and family life, has an impact on retirement, family size, and competition for jobs between young people and older adults. If people could start their lives at 24, that wouldn't be so bad. But if they wouldn't start their adult lives until 27-28, because the nation demanded they take 2 years to serve their country, and then employers demanded an undergraduate degree for new hires, then we run into some bigger societal issues.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

djmarcelca said:


> http://montrealsimon.blogspot.ca/2015/04/is-stephen-harper-planning-to-conscript.html
> 
> There's a story about Harper's possible plan to institute Mandatory Military Service for 1 Year Upon reaching 18 Yrs of age.
> 
> ...



Sounds like anti-Harper fear mongering to me. What would be the point in bringing in conscription for one year's service when, as you said, training would take at least six months (more if doing anything even remotely specialized)?

And considering the fact that this came from some blogger in Montreal, rather than a legitimate news agency, it isn't worth the paper it is written on.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> 1) They are taught to kill.


In the infantry maybe but others aren't. A radar technician in the navy, for example, is not taught to kill. An air traffic controller in the air force is not taught to kill.



> Some go on to make this a lifetime career becoming mercenaries


So? If that is what they want to do it is up to them. And mercenaries are not, necessarily, a bad thing. Have you heard much from Boko Haram lately? No, and the reason for that is that former South African military personnel were hired by the Nigerian government to train some units of their own demoralized military and also to fight as mercenaries against the Islamist terror group. Thanks to those mercenaries, in less than six months Boko Haram was a shadow of its former self. 



> and some committing murder and spending years in prison.


Oh really? And how many have done that?




> 2) In order to change a person's thinking about killing the training is designed to desensitize the person. This affects the person's view of others as being less valuable.


Sounds to me like you have been reading too much by Joanna Bourke and her ilk.




> 3) They are taught to obey their superior's without question.


Which is necessary in the military/in combat.




> Blindly following others has led to many performing deeds that are demoralizing and even illegal.


And following orders has led to success in battle and has ultimately saved lives.




> 4) Morality, drinking and drugs are rife within the military.


Since when is morality a bad thing?

As for the others, they are rife in civilian life too.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

this thread and its responses has produced a pile of shit so high it rivals the Egyptian Pyramids.
congrats to all..

G.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I'll believe that when it is front page news.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

mhammer said:


> . Consider the low-cost housing shortage that exists, and the fact that the folks who participate in Habitat for HUmanity aren't all licensed carpenters or construction workers.
> .


i tried to offer those guys free labor once, and i am certified. they turned me down because i wouldn't take 2 weeks off from my job to do it. i offered them nights and weekends. they wanted me to go to my boss, and ask him if i could have 2 weeks off to go work for free, and him supply the material. as if


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> We should have mandatory military service for all elected officials.


Do you really want a lot of those guys to be taught how to use a firearm?


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## Guest (Sep 7, 2015)

Well, yes. So that they at least know what's actually involved when 
they send our troops out into a battlefield/problem areas.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I don't think we need to go quite that far, but it would be nice to have whomever is minister of defense have a better sense of what military life is like. Yes, they get tours, and they speak to the folks on the ground. But "military life" encompasses a lot of stuff beyond the actual theatre. It involves moving around. It involves being worn out from being called up for another tor before the last one wore off. It involves strains on family life.

Though I wasn't expecting miracles, I thought it was a good step forward when Erin O'Toole was appointed Veterans Affairs minister. I can't remember the last timesomeone in that role actually was in the CF.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


> Well, yes. So that they at least know what's actually involved when
> they send our troops out into a battlefield/problem areas.


At least when they are viewing a flood area or forest fire and they see the troops working they either lend a hand or get the hell out of the way. Twice, once for flood and once for fire Harper saw it as a photo op and that's it. Once in B.C. he tried to get the fire fighters to sing.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mhammer said:


> I don't think we need to go quite that far, but it would be nice to have whomever is minister of defense have a better sense of what military life is like. Yes, they get tours, and they speak to the folks on the ground. But "military life" encompasses a lot of stuff beyond the actual theatre. It involves moving around. It involves being worn out from being called up for another tor before the last one wore off. It involves strains on family life.
> 
> Though I wasn't expecting miracles, I thought it was a good step forward when Erin O'Toole was appointed Veterans Affairs minister. I can't remember the last timesomeone in that role actually was in the CF.


Appoint an RSM who's been in the ranks and in the field and not some guy with scrambled eggs on his hat.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Appoint an RSM who's been in the ranks and in the field and *not some guy with scrambled eggs on his hat*.


You mean like Fantino?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

It'd be interesting to hear from someone who's xperienced living in Switzerland what the negatives of such a policy are . All we can do is speculate.
im sure it's no perfect, but I can see some positives.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm always amused by these sorts of things. If Harper is so evil why do people feel the need to go to such great and questionable lengths to try to discredit him. If he's really such a bad leader he will be gone. That's the way democracy works.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

GuitarT said:


> I'm always amused by these sorts of things. If Harper is so evil why do people feel the need to go to such great and questionable lengths to try to discredit him. If he's really such a bad leader he will be gone. That's the way democracy works.




like carlin said 

"take the guy of average intelligence, then realize half the world is dumber than he is"


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

cheezyridr said:


> like carlin said
> 
> "take the guy of average intelligence, then realize half the world is dumber than he is"


Carlin is correct in spirit, but incorrect factually. For us to be absolutely certain "half the world is dumber than he is", it would have to be_* median *_intelligence. Where something is flawlessly distributed in symmetrical fashion, yes the median is identical to the average. But we have no such assurances of symmetry. Indeed, while measured intelligence can range quite high above "100", it is exceedingly rare that any adult who is at least capable of being subject to the same measurement tool ("Can you arrange these blocks to copy that picture?", "Do you know what this word means?") will measure below 50. I.E., scores on intelligence measures are generally skewed, such that the median and average are not the same.

Boy, have I ever got my "pedantic" on today! :stirpot:


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2015)

caution, cursing

[video=youtube;8rh6qqsmxNs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs[/video]


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

You mean like Fantino???



laristotle said:


> caution, cursing
> 
> [video=youtube;8rh6qqsmxNs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rh6qqsmxNs[/video]


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2015)

or maybe Trudeau? they're interchangeable.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Elizabeth May is more like Toto than a main protagonist in this story.

Harper and Trudeau look like a couple guys that killed some hookers. And Mulcair looks like the guy they hired to get rid of the bodies.
Good luck picking one to vote for.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Diablo said:


> Elizabeth May is more like Toto than a main protagonist in this story.
> 
> Harper and Trudeau look like a couple guys that killed some hookers. And Mulcair looks like the guy they hired to get rid of the bodies.
> Good luck picking one to vote for.


Luckily I don't have to vote for any of these guys. Don't know if I'll vote for the party or the person this time. Don't know who's running in this riding. They are all keeping quiet. A female noncom vet who rides a Harley would get my vote.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I just read that Fantino is running again. Now THAT fits Carlin's definition of sToOpId !!!


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