# soldering technique



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Hey Guys,

I'd like to start soldering, but I'm getting frustrated with the conflicting techniques I'm seeing on YouTube.

I really like this guy, but I'm not sure how far this would take me. I like the idea of the solder moving towards the heat - looks nice, clean and streamlined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUVX_RTS-Z8

I'm looking for advice on the best technique to get me started, but a method that will carry me through most types of projects. Will the above do it? I eventually want to build pedal kits. Right now, I just want to fix my out-of-phase pick-ups. I have the new musicman taken apart as a practice guitar (since I'm using the neck for the Les Ball project). I'm going to clean up the solder with a desoldering braid and try re-soldering them to get a feel for it.

Perhaps I'm over-thinking it, but I'm usually the guy who reads the instruction manual entirely before touching anything - and then reads it again. So, I haven't picked up the soldering gun and won't until I understand this a bit better.

Any advice would be appreciated. Ideally, a video link or perhaps a book (although I'd prefer to watch someone do it).

Thanks.


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## Stonehead (Nov 12, 2013)

Get a good quality gun, some solder wick or solder sucker. I use a Weller WESD51 900 degree gun which will cover most electronics I solder. When doing fine work you need pin point heat and a gun that will maintain the heat. A 40 watt gun will be a good tool to start practicing with. Find some old electronics like a stereo or computer etc. and practice removing and re-soldering components. You'll be suprised how quick you get the hang of it. Get some q-tips and laquer thinner to clean your work of all the excess rosin.
I worked in an electronics repair lab for 20 years and having the proper tools to do the job is paramount.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Heat the joint, the parts you want connected, not the solder. Make sure the parts AND your iron tip are clean before you go in - do you have something to clean the hot tip with? I love those sorta steel wool type things, just dip it in there once or twice before every joint.

When working with wire, pre-tin the wire (heat and apply solder to the bare wire), then move to the step below.

If possible, form a mechanical joint (I make L shapes, hook them together, then close them with needlenose pliers) of the wire/parts first before you solder. This has the dual benefit of holding the parts in place AND making for a stronger long term joint. Nothing worse than trying to use tweezers or weight or other non appropriate tools to hold a *tiny* part in place, that really just doesn't want to be there. A third arm + hand would make the job so much easier, and my wife has done this duty far more often than she'd like.

Get in and out as quickly as you can, which generally means a little more heat but very little time touching the iron to the parts.

Practice. Get some scrap wire or parts (1/4w resistors are nice, at 4-6 cents each) and practice. 

Don't do pedals, you'll never stop and it's a deep financial pit. Ask me about my $3-4000 of parts inventory I have on hand - resistors capacitors diodes ICs transistors boxes pots knobs 9v ports miles of wire and heatshrink tubing, storage solutions for it all, lots of tools for working with small parts.

Best investment ever - a GOOD set of wire strippers. I take that back, that would be #2 but the Weller station I have would top the list.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

You have been given a lot of excellent information so far. 

Here are some additional comments.

I second the concept of getting a "third hand"...inexpensive and well worth it.









I fastened mine to a bigger base to stop it from being so "tippy".

I also like to use a flux pen:










A good stripper (as Keto states) is essential!

I also like to clean and tin the parts being soldered first and put a bit of solder on the iron to conduct the heat into the joint.

Being fast is the key....again...as stated by Keto.

Also, don't move or blow on the parts after you have just finished soldering them...let them cool undisturbed and on their own.

I usually test my solder joints with a bit of gentle tugging once the joint has cooled. 

I could go on but it is late. I will follow this thread with interest as I am bound to learn form those contributing.

Practicing on some old guitar pots and jacks is advised...you will do a lot of soldering and unsoldering of these!!....Wanna bet?...LOL

You will burn your finger(s)...it is a "right of passage"

Cheers

Dave


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Use lead solder with a flux core. I don't own a flux pen and I've done *miles* of soldering - NOT THAT I THINK IT'S A BAD IDEA, DAVE, just unnecessary in my books.

The new modern lead free solder can be much more difficult to work with - I forget all the reading I did so I don't have specifics, but I have stayed away from it based on that reading.

I've only burnt my fingertips a couple of times, from grabbing freshly soldered parts in a fit of insanity WTF ARE YOU DOING YOU IDJIT! When I made my pancake end cables, after I soldered the ground to the body of the pancake I picked it up to move it aside and go onto the next one BAAAAAAD IDEA.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

I'm with Kent...

I've also never used a flux pen and have never had issues. I stick with lead solder personally, and small gauge. on top of the wire cutter and 3rd hand i would recommend a couple pairs of normally closed tweezers. by normally closed, I mean the type that you have to squeeze together to open.

let your iron warm up nice and hot, dip it in the steel wool a couple times so it is clean and go to work.

I absolutely agree with Kent on heating the components. you should be able to touch the solder to the components/joints and it will just suck right in. I sometimes find it is easier to just touch the solder on the iron tip before heating up the joint.

totally unrelated, the way the dude in that youtube video says solder drives me nuts


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

I've been rockin it with a 25-40W soldering station. Pretty inexpensive but it worked for me and got me through 4 BYOC pedals, some pedal mods and 2 Trinity Amps. However, I am curious about the big difference between say a 40W soldering station and the one referred to in Stonehead's post (WESD51 900 degree gun). I'm a bit confused because one is described using watts while the other in degrees.

I'm tempted to pick up one of those 900 degree ones because I've been itching to build another amp...and I have a few pedals to repair...and some tweaking to do to my guitars. I do notice that with my 40W station, it takes a long time to heat and solder wire to a potentiometer or ground wire to the bridge. Would that 900 degree station fix all of those issues?? 

Sorry adcandour, didn't mean to highjack the thread but since were talking about soldering I thought I would ask.


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

one thing that drives me nuts is pulling apart connections that have been twisted/wrapped together as well as soldered. is there a trick to doing this?

even after using a solder sucker to pull off excess, it's still a fight to get the hot wire untwisted with a set of pliers. pain in the ass!!

esp in tight spaces

a tip someone showed me: those big broccoli elastic bands wrapped around a set of pliers makes a great third hand in a pinch. it will hold components and you can use both hands to solder etc

- - - Updated - - -

ps can you still buy lead solder? I thought it was phased out. I can only find lead-free


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

This is a pain for me also...I usually cut the connection and start fresh whenever possible. On switch and pot terminals, I cut the wire as close to the terminal as possible and remove the remainder with a dental pick, hemostats, tweezers or whichever weapon is handy.

No problem getting the old leaded solder around here.
I agree with all of the others re: lead free solder...WHAT A PAIN TO WORK WITH!! 

The FLUX PEN is an old habit..I sometimes forget to use it. Certainly not essential.

The elastic and pliers "clamp" idea is very useful to know! Thanks!

Cheers

Dave



bolero said:


> one thing that drives me nuts is pulling apart connections that have been twisted/wrapped together as well as soldered. is there a trick to doing this?
> 
> even after using a solder sucker to pull off excess, it's still a fight to get the hot wire untwisted with a set of pliers. pain in the ass!!
> 
> ...


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Stratin2traynor said:


> I've been rockin it with a 25-40W soldering station. Pretty inexpensive but it worked for me and got me through 4 BYOC pedals, some pedal mods and 2 Trinity Amps. However, I am curious about the big difference between say a 40W soldering station and the one referred to in Stonehead's post (WESD51 900 degree gun). I'm a bit confused because one is described using watts while the other in degrees.
> 
> I'm tempted to pick up one of those 900 degree ones because I've been itching to build another amp...and I have a few pedals to repair...and some tweaking to do to my guitars. I do notice that with my 40W station, it takes a long time to heat and solder wire to a potentiometer or ground wire to the bridge. Would that 900 degree station fix all of those issues??
> 
> Sorry adcandour, didn't mean to highjack the thread but since were talking about soldering I thought I would ask.


*Weller is getting 850 degrees F. from 50 watts*...according to the specs:

*WESD51PU Power Unit

*
Voltage 120 V (input); 24 V (output)
*Temperature Range 350° F - 850° F* (176° C - 450° C)
Dimensions 5.9 x 4.5 x 3.6 in. (150 x 114 x 91 mm)
Temperature Accuracy +/- 17° F (+/-9° C)
Temperature Stability +/- 10° F (+/-6° C)
ESD Safe Yes
PES51 Pencil
*Power Consumption 50 W*
Heating Element Type Nichrome Wound; Fiberglass
and Ceramic Insulated
Cord Length 4 ft. (1.22 m)
Supplied Tip ETA
Supplied Stand PH50 with TC205 Sponge

I seldom have problems soldering to the back of pots. I "melt" a small "puddle" onto the back of the pot...tin the wire/braid...and go from there. However, unsoldering wires from the backs of pots can be more frustrating in my experience. 

@ adcandour...Speaking of soldering to pots that act as heat sinks...get a couple of alligator clips to use as heat sinks ....especially when soldering capacitors.

Cheers

Dave


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1) While not everything uses it, the advent of lead-free solder in many places, and in compliance with many national standards, requires a higher-heat iron than it used to in order to solder/unsolder things.

2) I stayed away from it for years, but once I finally yielded, I have become a convert to solder wick. One tip I will offer is that applying a bit of liquid flux to solder wick, and stretching the braid outwards (sideways), _supercharges_ the stuff. Note as well, that solder wick comes in a variety of widths, good to have some wider and some thinner stuff on hand.

3) When commercial manufacturers make stuff, they get in a shipment of components with gleaming bright contacts, and use those components in short order. When non-manufacturers like us make stuff, we score a bunch of parts...when we spot a decent price or when the we accumulate enough needs to justify making an order...and we use them, eventually. Between the time we get them, and the time we use them, the surfaces of the leads often tarnish. And therein lies the root of many problems people have. Tarnish can result in "cold joints" that look like contact has been made (when it hasn't). Tarnish can also impede the flow of solder such that the user applies heat for a longer duration, which can damage, or melt things. To my mind, tarnish is a major source of several problems people have with stompswitches and toggles. Bottom line?: keep a sharp small-bladed X-acto handy to scrape leads shiny so that solder wants to travel and stick to them. You'll be glad you did.

4) Solder "guns", with those thick bent-wire tips, are great for working on amplifiers, or anything with big thick component leads. They are NOT suitable for working on pedals, guitars, or anything else with smaller leads/contacts. Have a gun AND a finer-tipped iron available in your arsenal.

5) Desoldering pumps can work nicely, up to a point. Often, they are a great first step, but need to be followed up by use of solder wick. As well, often desoldering can be helped along by first applying a little extra solder to the joint in question, such that it liquefies nicely, and THEN using the solder sucker.

6) Liquid flux is your friend, though sometimes it can be your enemy. It is your friend in that it greatly assists solder flow. It can be your enemy in that the blobs of excess flux that remain on PC boards can sometimes make it hard to see cracks or solder bridges on the board. Whenever I am trying to debug a nonworking circuit, I generally begin by cleaning the flux off the board with methyl hydrate, just so I can see things clearly, and be able to say to myself "Nope, it's not_ that_".


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Quick post to let you know I'm following along. Just busy driving, so can only catch up periodically. 

I stopped into an electrical supply place in scarberia and grabbed most stuff mentioned.

Confused over some wording - especially when it comes to solder wire. I want lead free with a rosin core, but it's not labelled that way.

I'm an air quality guy, and need to keep the lead out of the house. I'll try to work through it - despite.the difficulty.


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## Church-Audio (Sep 27, 2014)

Soldering is all about speed and preparation. Surfaces must be cleaned. If you are going to solder on a chassis I use this iron Hakko FX-601 its 67 watts and it stays hot at the tip. For doing grounds and chassis soldering its all about tip temperature and mass. The bigger the tip the better it holds a temp under heavy use. I use quality Kester solder 60-40 Thin stuff for electronics .031 od. For lead free soldering I use Kesler k100ld it works great and has very good reflow characteristics. For soldering stations I have two of these http://canada.newark.com/weller/wd1002/digital-soldering-station-85w/dp/86K9118
They work great I have had them for 5 years with out a single failure and they get daily use at least 8 hours a day. I also recommend the WSA350 for getting the fumes out of your face. I am lucky enough to have a WFE20 fume extraction system power enough for 20 soldering stations. But I just use an over head smog hose and one at the stations to suck up fumes when the irons are not being used. The soldering station I have uses the WP80 Iron. This station is great because it really holds a temperature. Its 80 watts I solder at 850 for most things. I also drop it down to 750 for desoldering parts so you dont melt traces off of boards. It really is about being quick you should be able to solder a joint so fast the insulation does not have time to get anywhere near melting. Good strippers are vital as well. I only use the automatic type because they dont nick the wire. A nicked wire will fail eventually. http://www.kleintools.com/catalog/11063w They make them in many different sizes I use the one that is from 22ga to 8ga this handles everything you will do on amps. 

If your iron is not hot enough you will have a hard time with soldering I am not saying it cant be done but its easy with good tools. And constant temperature is very important a clean tip is very important. I only use brass mess to clean my tips with when the iron is hot. No sponges ever. If you do production soldering like I do then investing on the optional power down stand is also a good idea. My iron stand powers down the station to 150 degrees when the iron is not picked up for more than 2 hours. It only takes 10 seconds for my iron to ramp back up to 850. At the end of the day good tools help but practice also helps. I have soldered a million connections over the last 25 years I am sure. Dont use a soldering gun for anything. They get way too hot and they were great back in the day but they are completely unregulated temperature.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Unless you plan on selling products overseas, you don't need lead-free.

- - - Updated - - -

Almost forgot. Those brass curly scrubbers that you find in the dollar store make GREAT tip cleaners. I used to use a sponge, and went through tips a few times a year. Switched to a brass scouring pad and my tip has been in tip-top shape for two years now. They sell the things at electronics distributors for about 5x the price. The dollar store scouring pads will work just fine.


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## Church-Audio (Sep 27, 2014)

I owned that unit and sold it after I started using lead free for some things it did not get hot enough despite it claiming it does 850 in a working environment I could never get it that hot as soon as I touched anything with any mass to it the irons temp would drop like a stone.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually Lead free is mandatory in California and will be here too soon. But thats only like you say for manufacturing since I do both I use lead free when I have too. Not because I want too


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

A couple points to add: 
63/37 (aka eutectic) solder will give better results if you have it available. It transitions quicker from solid to liquid and hardens quicker so less chance of "cold joints". 
This link covers eutectic solder and has much other info on soldering:
http://www.toolingu.com/definition-660210-28760-eutectic-solder.html
As far as wattage and temperature, it depends what you are working on. For through hole pcb work, the standard temp is 700, for SMD some reduce that to 600. For wiring you may want a bit hotter, but I've never needed more than 700 deg. unless I'm making connections to chassis.
"Wetting" is very important for heat transfer. There should be a bit of fresh solder on your tip every time you use it. And if you are having trouble getting the heat where you want it, add some solder. This is one of the reasons we pre-tin wires before connecting, it helps the heat transfer.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

I bought some lead-free awhile back, it's available to anyone who wants to pay the postage.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Great thread! 

Many good pointers and information.

Any of you folks using this or a similar product? ...just curious.










Cheers

Dave


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Never used that stuff. That's probably why my tip is so dirty. At least that's what I told her. Oops wrong thread! Lol

Seriously though. Never used it. I just have the little sponge.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

greco said:


> @ adcandour...Speaking of soldering to pots that act as heat sinks...get a couple of alligator clips to use as heat sinks ....especially when soldering capacitors.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


haha, I have to keep googling everything. I'm such a newb

So, you're suggesting I use an alligator clip to act as a heat sink, so I don't melt the capacitors?. I'll try to youtube this, since I can't envision how to do it.

- - - Updated - - -

@amprepair - thanks for the head's up on removing the fumes. There's a Sayal in Scarborough just by where I'm working that has one in stock. I'll grab it today.

I have purchased essentially everything I need. Once I have control of the fumes, I'm gonna start melting things like a madman...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

greco said:


> Great thread!
> 
> Many good pointers and information.
> 
> ...


I used to use it...religiously...and in desperation...to try and save my soldering tip. Since I started using the brass curly pads to clean the tip, I don't even know where my container of that stuff IS anymore. Try the brass pads and you'll never go back.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

adcandour said:


> So, you're suggesting I use an alligator clip to act as a heat sink, so I don't melt the capacitors?. I'll try to youtube this, since I can't envision how to do it.
> 
> Once I have control of the fumes, I'm gonna start melting things like a madman...












The alligator clip is put on the leg of the cap being soldered to absorb some of the heat that could get to the "body" of the cap and damage it. You will be soldering caps into the tone circuits of guitars.

*"I'm gonna start melting things like a madman..."
*
Try to focus on only melting the solder!!..LOL

Cheers

Dave


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> I used to use it...religiously...and in desperation...to try and save my soldering tip. Since I started using the brass curly pads to clean the tip, I don't even know where my container of that stuff IS anymore. Try the brass pads and you'll never go back.


I have a tin of this but have seldom used it as I use a damp sponge. I'll get a brass pad today.

Cheers

Dave


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Great tip re: alligator clips. I'll have to try that! All this talk of soldering makes me want to buy some kind of kit to build!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The alligator clip tip works great for some things, but not for others. As I've gone on ad nauseum about, too much heat will be a major source of stompswitch failure. Given that there is nothing to attach an alligator clip to, while soldering, the best advice is make sure the solder lugs are nice and shiny, apply a little bit of liquid flux to speed things along, and exercise a bit of patience, to let things cool down between successive solder joints.

I use the same strategy for soldering chips to a board. I'll do a couple of pins spaced apart, then work on something else and come back to that chip, after it has cooled down. It's the buildup of heat from adjacent solder joints, which haven't cooled down yet, that causes so many problems.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> The alligator clip tip works great for some things, but not for others.


My suggestion was specific to caps in guitar circuits.

Cheers

Dave


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Back in the old days, it was also recommended for use in soldering transistors as well, although that tended to presume lots of space for long leads, rather than components huddled as close to the board as possible.

In the earliest days of Electro-Harmonix, many of their effects didn't even use circuit boards, built essentially like point-to-point webs of flying leads. I wouldn't doubt that they used alligator clips to avoid over-heating mishaps with the transistors.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

This may be a stupid question but is there any benefit to having the digital soldering station vs the analog one besides the obvious (digital readout). I found an analog one I can get for $95. The digital one is $150. Just wondering if it's worth the price difference.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Stratin2traynor said:


> This may be a stupid question but is there any benefit to having the digital soldering station vs the analog one besides the obvious (digital readout). I found an analog one I can get for $95. The digital one is $150. Just wondering if it's worth the price difference.


I'm not sure that the digital readout is worth the extra cost or if it is beneficial to any real extent.

Cheers

Dave


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Stratin2traynor said:


> This may be a stupid question but is there any benefit to having the digital soldering station vs the analog one besides the obvious (digital readout). I found an analog one I can get for $95. The digital one is $150. Just wondering if it's worth the price difference.


I've been reading up on this and it seems that the digital readouts (if accurate) are helpful to very few people. I suspect that people who do this day-to-day probably need it. But then again, what the hell do I know. I'm still too nervous to pick it up.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

adcandour said:


> ......I'm still too nervous to pick it up.


Have you tried any soldering yet? Comments?

@mhammer...As you suggested...I went to the dollar store and got the metal scouring pads. I did some soldering today and permanently retired the damp sponge. Thanks for encouraging me to try something new.....and better.

Cheers

Dave


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

greco said:


> Have you tried any soldering yet? Comments?
> 
> @mhammer...As you suggested...I went to the dollar store and got the metal scouring pads. I did some soldering today and permanently retired the damp sponge. Thanks for encouraging me to try something new.....and better.
> 
> ...



Tonight is the night. I've set up everything this morning, so I can just sit down and get to it. I just plan on removing some solder and then reattaching whatever I removed.

I was busy trying to build a fret file and then realized it's almost the same price to just buy one. Now I can focus on soldering.

I've still ben reviewing things on line - I am so uneducated about this that I didn't know how to clean the tip or when to 'tin' it to prevent oxidizing. There's a lot of little things I needed to iron out. Now I'm totally good to go.

The funny thing is that I could have just watched my father do it while I was growing up, but I never took the time. Silly.
The only thing I'm unclear about is why I'd use flux? If my solder has a rosin core, I shouldn't need it, right? And then mhammer suggested liquid flux (which I picked up). Not sure what to make of it.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

greco said:


> @mhammer...As you suggested...I went to the dollar store and got the metal scouring pads. I did some soldering today and permanently retired the damp sponge. Thanks for encouraging me to try something new.....and better.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


I went to the dollar store too and picked up a pack of copper scouring thingys. I had been using steel wool......copper is much better.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Lincoln said:


> I went to the dollar store too and picked up a pack of copper scouring thingys. I had been using steel wool......copper is much better.


mhammer mentioned "brass" and you mentioned "copper" ...I bought stainless steel (I couldn't find "brass" , but they did have some copper coloured ones...LOL
I'm not sure that the material is that important....but I could easily be wrong. So far, the stainless is fine for $1.13.

Cheers

Dave


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

adcandour said:


> There's a lot of little things I needed to *iron *out.


"iron out"....nice pun!

As far as flux goes, you don't really need it (as others have mentioned). I have just gotten into the habit of using it whenever I solder anything (before tinning wires, etc and before soldering two things together). 

This is from Wiki...
*Flux (metallurgy)*

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Rosin used as flux forsoldering​


A flux pen used for electronics rework


​

.... As cleaning agents, fluxes facilitate soldering, brazing, and welding by removing oxidation from the metals to be joined. Common fluxes are: ammonium chloride orrosin for soldering tin; hydrochloric acid andzinc chloride for soldering galvanized iron(and other zinc surfaces); and borax forbrazing or braze-welding ferrous metals.In metallurgy, a *flux* (derived from *Latin*_fluxus_ meaning “flow”), is a chemical cleaning agent, flowing agent, or purifying agent. Fluxes may have more than one function at a time. They are used in both extractive metallurgy and metal joining.
In high-temperature metal joining processes (welding, brazing and soldering), the primary purpose of flux is to prevent oxidation of the base and filler materials. Tin-lead solder (e.g.) attaches very well to copper, but poorly to the various oxides of copper, which form quickly at soldering temperatures. Flux is a substance which is nearly inert at room temperature, but which becomes strongly reducing at elevated temperatures, preventing the formation of metal oxides. *Additionally, flux allows solder to flow easily on the working piece rather than forming beads as it would otherwise.*


*The role of a flux in joining processes is typically dual: dissolving of the oxides on the metal surface, which facilitates wetting by molten metal, and acting as an oxygen barrier by coating the hot surface, preventing its oxidation. In some applications molten flux also serves as a heat transfer medium, facilitating heating of the joint by the soldering tool or molten solder. *

Hope this helps.

Enjoy your soldering "adventures"!

Cheers

Dave


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Hey guys,

I snapped a photo of my first solder connection. I know I am over analyzing, but I need to know if this will work, or if I need a bigger blob. 

I removed a massive blob of solder before I reconnected this. I was using my desoldering braid. Someone should have told me it'd get hot  

I also threw in the Les Ball logo and the freshly sanded head stock to get as much as I could into one photo  




- - - Updated - - -

I just realized how hard it it to see the connection. Maybe I'll go take a closer pic in the next little bit.

Also, all that crap around my connection is what was left from desoldering. It looks like flux. Can it come out perfectly, or not?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

IMHO, it is not the amount of solder or the size of the "blob" but having a solid connection that is conducting well and not a "cold" joint. 

Once they have cooled, I like to give the connections a gentle "tug"/pull to test them...sometimes what looks like a good joint turns out not to be holding well at all. 

It doesn't take a lot of solder and if the surface of the solder looks reasonably shiny that is a good sign. 












Hot braid = burn (or close to it) = rite of passage

Cheers

Dave


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

U don't need more solder, especially for just 1 leg of a cap.

Pots are the easiest thing for *me* to burn out, by holding the iron on the back too long. They're awkward to get loose wires in the right position and held there while at the same time adding solder. Hook the guitar back up and the pot doesn't work right any more - been there more times than I care to remember. Burned out the guts.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

keto said:


> Pots are the easiest thing for *me* to burn out, by holding the iron on the back too long. They're awkward to get loose wires in the right position and held there while at the same time adding solder. Hook the guitar back up and the pot doesn't work right any more - been there more times than I care to remember. Burned out the guts.


I found an even better way to destroy a pot! You let the solder flow down the center post and into the pot..........they don't turn much after that


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

keto said:


> U don't need more solder, especially for just 1 leg of a cap.
> 
> Pots are the easiest thing for *me* to burn out, by holding the iron on the back too long. They're awkward to get loose wires in the right position and held there while at the same time adding solder. Hook the guitar back up and the pot doesn't work right any more - been there more times than I care to remember. Burned out the guts.





Lincoln said:


> I found an even better way to destroy a pot! You let the solder flow down the center post and into the pot..........they don't turn much after that


Thanks to you guys, I'm now buying stocks in CTS, Alpha and Bourns.
Please encourage other to use your "techniques" !

Cheers

Dave


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

keto said:


> U don't need more solder, especially for just 1 leg of a cap.
> 
> Pots are the easiest thing for *me* to burn out, by holding the iron on the back too long. They're awkward to get loose wires in the right position and held there while at the same time adding solder. Hook the guitar back up and the pot doesn't work right any more - been there more times than I care to remember. Burned out the guts.


Damn. I can bet you that I messed this pot up. Thankfully, it's all just for practice.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

adcandour said:


> Damn. I can bet you that I messed this pot up. Thankfully, it's all just for practice.


Do you have a multimeter to test the pot ?

This would also be a good time to practice using your meter to test the continuity of you solder joints.

Cheers

Dave


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Depending what I'm soldering I use anything from a very thin pencil gun to a heavy soldering iron and blow torch (usually for copper pipe), various types of solder and if I'm tinning a lot of wires, a solder pot. And I use flux....it's the way I was taught. Solder a wire to a pot/control.....tin the wire and the tip of your iron, flux the pot, place wire on flux. Tip of iron on wire and hold it there until flux melts and solder flows. Remove iron. I don't use alligator clips as heat sinks on fine wire, I find that the teeth on the clips can nick the wire causing it to break down the line. Solder pots are great for bulk tinning wires, large jobs and soldering pigtail splices. The two Weller mod 8200's and the no-name chinese guns I use are 100/140 watts, the pencil gun is 45 watts, the propane tip is hot, the 1" copper soldering iron/blowtorch outfit are hotter. The solder pot is a small cast iron cup about 1/2 full of solder....heated when needed. I've never used a solder sucker or anything like that. This covers any soldering I do which covers anything from repairing old radios thru rewiring old bikes to repairing a leaking cold water line and other things.


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## Church-Audio (Sep 27, 2014)

When it comes to soldering gear you absolutely get what you pay for. If you are doing it every day like me spend a few bucks $350 to $500 and get a good station if you do it once in a while spend $100 to $150 get a good used or new station. Weller is the top choice for me because parts are always available this off shore shit is hard to get parts for sometimes. I was also told to mention that I do pull on all my solder connections especially old wire or solid core wire connections because they can look soldered but sometimes not be. I have a 1965 fender twin reverb I was fixing in the shop the heater wire was brown and really oxidized. I decided to replace it. I have 18 ga green heater wire here in stock. I replaced the wire thought the connections were good and one of the double connections did not take the solder and was not soldered even though it had looked like it was. So I take a small pair of needle nose pliers and give the wire a slight tug make sure its solid and move on to the other connections. I check every connection with a magnifying glass as well. It take 2 seconds to check things over. I am not perfect nobody is so why not?


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

greco said:


> Do you have a multimeter to test the pot ?
> 
> This would also be a good time to practice using your meter to test the continuity of you solder joints.
> 
> ...



I know I have one somewhere. I'll get it out and check out what I've done.

- - - Updated - - -



Electraglide said:


> Depending what I'm soldering I use anything from a very thin pencil gun to a heavy soldering iron and blow torch (usually for copper pipe), various types of solder and if I'm tinning a lot of wires, a solder pot. And I use flux....it's the way I was taught. Solder a wire to a pot/control.....*tin the wire and the tip of your iron, flux the pot, place wire on flux. Tip of iron on wire and hold it there until flux melts and solder flows. Remove iron.*


That's kinda how I needed it broken down. Thanks. I just couldn't figure out how flux fit into this. I swear I'm not totally dumb.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

The flux helps the solder flow better. A couple of things I've learned over the years. 1....take pics and/or draw wiring diagrams. Back in the day it was just drawing wiring diagrams. 2....use a gun that fits the job you're doing. Nothing worse than bridging two points that shouldn't be bridged because the tip of your gun is too big. 3......practice. Learn just how much or how little heat, flux and solder it takes to make a good connection. Get an old copper penny and solder a piece of 12 ga to it, then get another penny and solder a piece of 28 ga to it. (1 strand of phone cable).


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

keto said:


> U don't need more solder, especially for just 1 leg of a cap.
> 
> Pots are the easiest thing for *me* to burn out, by holding the iron on the back too long. They're awkward to get loose wires in the right position and held there while at the same time adding solder. Hook the guitar back up and the pot doesn't work right any more - been there more times than I care to remember. Burned out the guts.


I have always wondered why so many guys feel the need to solder to the back shell of a pot. As you have found, it's very easy to overheat the pot and cause damage. As far as hum reduction goes, the pot shell isn't really all that important anyway. In the Glory Years, pot shells were made of a different metal that took solder easier. The shell was a convenient ground spot. However, you can get problems over the years with oxidation between the bushing and the chassis. Old timers understood about ground loops much better than so many seem to do today. Grounding to a pot shell can actually CAUSE a ground loop in some cases!

Signal grounding in an amp chassis is not like wiring lights into your pickup truck, where any convenient flash of metal is used for a ground return back to the battery. Ground return currents can take many paths back to the filter capacitors. If a preamp path is shared with the return at the cathodes of the power tubes it can be modulated with the ripple from the first filter point, adding LOTS of hum!

The safest way to do it, particularly when you are starting out, is not to have ground points all over the place. Instead, use star grounding, where you bring all ground wires back to a common point or maybe just a few points. With a guitar that would mean don't solder to a pot shell at all. Bring a wire back from every ground point to one common connection to the ground of the guitar jack.

This is not my idea or even a new one! Lots of sites about star grounding will pop up with a google. Randal Aiken's site has a very good article. Also, http://www.guitarnuts.com/wiring/shielding/shield3.php is extremely useful!

Wild Bill/Busen Amps


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Tried out my new Weller WES51 Analog Soldering Station. Wow. I can't believe how easy it was to solder with this thing. I am literally going to jump on and smash that other POS I used to build two amps and a few pedals. It served me well but definitely was not hot enough. I set this new one to about 700 degrees and it worked great!! One pedal switch replaced and I finally got around to fixing the input jack on my Strat! 

Gonna start looking for more projects now!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Congrats....Cool (in this case "hot") tools make a huge difference for sure.

Sometimes I undo work I have done in the past and redo it in order to try and do a better job...just for the challenge and opportunity to do some soldering. Sometimes it turns out not to be a very good idea...LOL.

Enjoy

Cheers

Dave


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

This is dedicated to all the soldering geeks that read this thread and contribute to it:


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## Church-Audio (Sep 27, 2014)

I was thinking about this thread today as I was working on some customers amps. One thing nobody talks about is maintenance of desoldering tools. I use for the most part a Soldapullt DS017 I also have a desoldering station I use for doing big jobs on delicate traces. But for the most part the soldapullt is what I use. The most important thing with these vacuum pumps is cleaning them out once in a while for me its about once a month. I put on some rubber gloves and a face mask clean the leaded solder out of it. And relube the whole thing with silicone grease everywhere I don't want solder to stick on the inside like the spring the o-ring and the metal shaft that sticks out of the tube. I also do the sidewall so it actually helps maintain a good seal. I then after about 3 cleanings find I need to replace the tip its SRT12. Once I do this maintenance the thing works like new. I have two of them so I always have one that is in perfect working order. As for soldering irons I never use a sponge on a soldering iron because they tend to contaminate the tips. I only use brass wool. It works great and it keeps the tips super clean and they last way longer. I also clean the tool it self once in a while with isopropanol. This decontaminates the tool and keeps the hand grime down to a minimum. i give the cable a close inspection and cleaning with a damp cloth. Never use any solvents or cleaners on rubber cables. I then take time to clean the soldering station stand get all the hard solder off and keep it clean I dump all the old solder waste into a container that I take to the dump for hazardous waste. Doing all this stuff means I dont burn through circuit board traces trying to desolder a connection. I dont have to use desolder braid very often. And my tools last longer. When you take care of them.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks for all the info Chris. 

Just curious what the Soldapullt looked like. Thought that I might as well post what I found... in case others were curious also.

Taking good care of the equipment you use and need every day always pays off.

Cheers

Dave


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I've been known to heat things up and then give them a blast of compressed air. Effective de-soldering, but very messy.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Lincoln said:


> I've been known to heat things up and then give them a blast of compressed air. Effective de-soldering, but very messy.


Never heard of that.... However, I can certainly imagine how messy it would be...LOL

Cheers

Dave


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Amprepair said:


> I was thinking about this thread today as I was working on some customers amps. One thing nobody talks about is maintenance of desoldering tools. I use for the most part a Soldapullt DS017 I also have a desoldering station I use for doing big jobs on delicate traces. But for the most part the soldapullt is what I use. The most important thing with these vacuum pumps is cleaning them out once in a while for me its about once a month. I put on some rubber gloves and a face mask clean the leaded solder out of it. And relube the whole thing with silicone grease everywhere I don't want solder to stick on the inside like the spring the o-ring and the metal shaft that sticks out of the tube. I also do the sidewall so it actually helps maintain a good seal. I then after about 3 cleanings find I need to replace the tip its SRT12. Once I do this maintenance the thing works like new. I have two of them so I always have one that is in perfect working order. As for soldering irons I never use a sponge on a soldering iron because they tend to contaminate the tips. I only use brass wool. It works great and it keeps the tips super clean and they last way longer. I also clean the tool it self once in a while with isopropanol. This decontaminates the tool and keeps the hand grime down to a minimum. i give the cable a close inspection and cleaning with a damp cloth. Never use any solvents or cleaners on rubber cables. I then take time to clean the soldering station stand get all the hard solder off and keep it clean I dump all the old solder waste into a container that I take to the dump for hazardous waste. Doing all this stuff means I dont burn through circuit board traces trying to desolder a connection. I dont have to use desolder braid very often. And my tools last longer. When you take care of them.


I schpritz the inside of mine with WD40. Works great.

The trouble with most solder suckers is that tip design comes from an era when components were spaced further apart and they weren't on double sided boards.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Are the desoldering braids for smaller projects, or for people who don't solder often? Thanks what I've been using. To be honest, I almost find the whole thing calming and don't mind taking my time.

I was shocked about the price of pedal kits. I wanted to start dabbling in pedal kit building, but they average at around $100. I spent less on my Digitech Delay. I only spent about 20 minutes surfing the web (came across BYOC). I was hoping to try building a clone. Maybe I'll try modding pedals first - does that make more sense?

Any insight?


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## TeleToons (Aug 13, 2014)

I like desoldering braid and am a klutz at using those vacuum pumps. I have one from The Source, can't seem to hold the tip on the hot solder while pulling the trigger and then the spring action jerks it a bit more.


As far as pedals go, you can get a circuit board from Watkins.com for 10 bucks. They need three pots, one switch and two jacks minimum.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

adcandour said:


> Are the desoldering braids for smaller projects, or for people who don't solder often? Thanks what I've been using. To be honest, I almost find the whole thing calming and don't mind taking my time.
> 
> I was shocked about the price of pedal kits. I wanted to start dabbling in pedal kit building, but they average at around $100. I spent less on my Digitech Delay. I only spent about 20 minutes surfing the web (came across BYOC). I was hoping to try building a clone. Maybe I'll try modding pedals first - does that make more sense?
> 
> Any insight?


Well, I'll speak to my experience. Me and a buddy went in on 5 BYOC kits during a sale, and that got me started on my way down the rabbit hole of pedal building. Cost doesn't become efficient on a per pedal basis until you're making bulk, imo. I mean (this is 4-5 years ago) I could buy resistors for 4 cents but had to buy 100 at a time. I could buy enclosures (unfinished) for $4.50 or so, but again that's buying by the dozen or so. All the tools, the pcb board, LEDs, transistors, pots, jacks and caps by the hundreds, switches by the dozens...and factor in shipping costs, especially if buying from multiple vendors. 

Then there's the big box of prototypes and 'stuff that just plain doesn't work and I never tracked down the problem' I have down in the basement.

Don't forget the paint, sanding supplies, labelling stuff, if you want them to look nice.

It's not a surprise to me that buying used pedals is probably cheaper than building a 1 off of any particular pedal. The exception might be a simple fuzz (ToneBender, Fuzz Face, etc) that you might throw together for $50-60 vs buying a boutique version for $150 or more.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

TeleToons said:


> As far as pedals go, you can get a circuit board from Watkins.com for 10 bucks. They need three pots, one switch and two jacks minimum.


I'll check it out, but I have no idea what I'm doing. Would I buy or download a schematic that has a parts list, and then order it all from a place like watkins?


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I always did prefer working from layouts - which detail where each part goes - rather than schematics, which show you what connects to what. You can find layouts around the 'net, and I have a big paper library saved of mostly fuzzes and assorted OD's/distortions but the odd flanger/phaser/tremelo in there. I only built off schematics a few times, and only for the very simplest of circuits, as I have no training in how to lay out from a schematic so if it was more than 2 transistors and a small handful of resistors and caps, it got too complex for me in a hurry. But some stuff, like jacks, power supply, stomp switch, is mostly universal if you like to do it one way (I also include pots in this, though they are really more part of the circuit - but if I know their values and how many I need, I can put them in the enclosure and partially wire them (like, to grounding points, to each other, etc) right up front)...so, I can lay out the enclosure with that stuff no matter what I'm building, then build the circuit and attach it and done.

Side note, the one oddball circuit I did from a schematic/made my own layout turned out to be very satisfying and a really good little pedal. Tim Escobedo's Tripple, which at low gain is an OD, at mid and up is a fuzz, and up high adds a sort of octave effect. Cool!


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

keto said:


> I always did prefer working from layouts - which detail where each part goes - rather than schematics, which show you what connects to what. You can find layouts around the 'net, and I have a big paper library saved of mostly fuzzes and assorted OD's/distortions but the odd flanger/phaser/tremelo in there. I only built off schematics a few times, and only for the very simplest of circuits, as I have no training in how to lay out from a schematic so if it was more than 2 transistors and a small handful of resistors and caps, it got too complex for me in a hurry. But some stuff, like jacks, power supply, stomp switch, is mostly universal if you like to do it one way (I also include pots in this, though they are really more part of the circuit - but if I know their values and how many I need, I can put them in the enclosure and partially wire them (like, to grounding points, to each other, etc) right up front)...so, I can lay out the enclosure with that stuff no matter what I'm building, then build the circuit and attach it and done.
> 
> Side note, the one oddball circuit I did from a schematic/made my own layout turned out to be very satisfying and a really good little pedal. Tim Escobedo's Tripple, which at low gain is an OD, at mid and up is a fuzz, and up high adds a sort of octave effect. Cool!


That does sound really cool. 

If the BYOCs come with instructions, parts and a layout, it may be worth it for me to get some practice and familiarize myself with building pedals.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Oh yeah, from the perspective you mention, highly recommend BYOC. Their instructions are very detailed and thorough, plus if something isn't working they have (or had, I haven't been there in a while) really good forums with lots of DIY guys who will look over your work and make suggestions.


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

Pedal kits are convenient, but overpriced. There is many pedal DIY sites, here is just one example :

http://madbeanpedals.com/projects/index.html You can order PCBs from them and get all the parts from here : http://www.taydaelectronics.com/

Happy building :smile-new:


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

If a person is starting from absolute zero - i.e., no drill press, no parts inventory, no etching setup, just a soldering iron, a meter, and a will - pedalkits are often a pretty good deal. Beats the heck out of chasing down all the parts (which may have to come from different places, each with their own shipping costs). If you DO have tools, and either a parts inventory, or a cheap place to accumulate them, then pedal kits cost a bit more than getting all the stuff yourself. If the extra $10-20 is worth it to you to save the time and aggravation, great. But if your intent is to be able to make oodles of pedals for yourself...cheap...there are better ways.

The instruction booklets accompanying BYOC projects are decent. Pretty much on par with the ones that set the standard: the pedal kits from PAiA. The instructions for the handful of kits from Small Bear are also quite good. 

Damir/Epis is quite correct in recommending the boards from Madbean, and I will put in a vote for both Tonepad and General Guitar Gadgets, as well as 1776 effects ( http://1776effects.com/ ). All their boards are terrific, but do note that all of these four assume a certain amount of knowledge on the builder's part, and tend not to provide much in the way of instructions as a result. If you have that background knowledge, cool. If not, I will recommend joining the DIY Stompbox forum as your backup plan for debugging builds, should it come to that.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Word of advice. If you haven't done anything like this before and/or you're unsure of what the results might be, take pictures as you go along. Makes it easier to find out where you went wrong and how to fix it.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

It looks like BYOC is going to be the best way to go....at least for now.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I bought this "booster" kit from BYOC. It is a basic $20.00 kit . The link below is to the build instructions (.pdf) on their site (and is what I received with it in paper format ...but not in colour IIRC). 

I haven't built it yet.

http://byocelectronics.com/confidenceinstructions.pdf

cheers

Dave


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

adcandour said:


> It looks like BYOC is going to be the best way to go....at least for now.


I've done a couple of BYOC pedals. It was an interesting project and kind of fun (I was off work with a bad injury so I killed some time building pedals and a couple of Trinity amps). I did quite a few Monte Allums mods on Boss pedals. Good kits with good instructions. All in all it was fun and killed some time. Now I'm also pretty handy with a soldering iron!

If you want to get into it just to learn and have some fun building your own gear - go for it. If your approaching it with the mind set that you'll save money doing it this way....wrong. Lol. It's much cheaper to buy used gear. One thing you could get out of the experience is being able to buy non-operating super cheap used gear and restoring it.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

greco said:


> I bought this "booster" kit from BYOC. It is a basic $20.00 kit . The link below is to the build instructions (.pdf) on their site (and is what I received with it in paper format ...but not in colour IIRC).
> 
> I haven't built it yet.
> 
> ...


Very helpful. Thanks Dave.

- - - Updated - - -



Stratin2traynor said:


> I've done a couple of BYOC pedals. It was an interesting project and kind of fun (I was off work with a bad injury so I killed some time building pedals and a couple of Trinity amps). I did quite a few Monte Allums mods on Boss pedals. Good kits with good instructions. All in all it was fun and killed some time. Now I'm also pretty handy with a soldering iron!
> 
> If you want to get into it just to learn and have some fun building your own gear - go for it. If your approaching it with the mind set that you'll save money doing it this way....wrong. Lol. It's much cheaper to buy used gear. *One thing you could get out of the experience is being able to buy non-operating super cheap used gear and restoring it*.


That sounds like an addiction in itself. My fear is that I would turn out like my dad - a collector of almost perfectly working junk.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

greco said:


> Thanks for all the info Chris.
> 
> Just curious what the Soldapullt looked like. Thought that I might as well post what I found... in case others were curious also.
> 
> ...


 I prefer the DS017 as you can reload easier with one hand, against your leg or bench or whatever. Easier than the thumb trigger of the US140.
If going with other brands/models, make sure the actuator does not move when releasing. You don't want to pull the trigger and have something hitting you in the face! :frown-new:

Also, like Chris mentioned, regular tip replacement is important. You don't notice how much the tip has worn down till you replace the tip and wonder why you waited so long.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Here are a few more articles on solder joint analysis:
http://www.ipctraining.org/demos/pdf/drm-pth-e.pdf
http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2 books/links/sections/601 General Requirements.html


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

jb welder said:


> Here are a few more articles on solder joint analysis:
> http://www.ipctraining.org/demos/pdf/drm-pth-e.pdf
> http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2 books/links/sections/601 General Requirements.html


WOW...When I looked at all the pics in those two links, I'm wondering if even 1% of my solder joints would be deemed "acceptable".

Thanks for the info.

Cheers

Dave


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

jb welder said:


> Here are a few more articles on solder joint analysis:
> http://www.ipctraining.org/demos/pdf/drm-pth-e.pdf
> http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2 books/links/sections/601 General Requirements.html


That is awesome. thanks.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The biggest obstacles to having solder joints that look like the ones in the picture are:

a) insufficient iron temperature, relative to the heat-dissipation properties of whatever it is you're soldering to what;

b) corrosion/tarnish on the component leads;

c) corrosion/tarnish on the PCB.

If one has a commercial operation, the chances are very good that the boards are fresh and shiny, and the component leads are similarly shiny and tarnish-free. Hobbyists or repair-folk, like us, tend to have parts hanging around for awhile, growing tarnish while they languish in the parts drawer, working on projects over protracted periods, or taking in things for repair that show their age. Clean off as much of the tarnish as you can, and it becomes easier to produce nice-looking solder joints.

FWIW, if you look at some of the pedals from the late 60's and even up to the mid-1970's, it seems like half their weight is solder. Precious few would meet the criteria laid out in those pamphlets.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

One thing I just discovered is eyelet boards with brass or copper eyelets solder so much better than boards with steel eyelets.

The solder bonds to brass eyelets, but it really doesn't like bonding to steel eyelets. With steel, by the time you get the solder hot enough to flow into the eyelet, it just keeps right on going out the bottom. Falls right through.
Just say "no" to cheapo eyelet boards.


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## TeleToons (Aug 13, 2014)

Lincoln you bring up the concern I have about Chinese boards. Has any one used the turret boards that claim "solid brass with plated" ? No description of what they are plated with.


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