# Refinishing a Epiphone Special ii



## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

Acquired an Epiphone Special ii and someone had done a crap green spray paint over top of the black to amber burst. Needs a new neck also, may have found one on eBay. 

However anyone know where in Western Canada I can send the body for a refinish? I don't have a spray gun and don't do enough to warrant the expense of buying a setup. 

Also anyone here have a neck for one of those or know where to look?

Thanks 
Curt 

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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Is an Epi Special II worth ANY expense? I mean, shipping the body would probably cost you half of what you could get another used one for. I'm not knocking the guitar, but they just aren't worth anything. It sounds like it would be cheaper to just look for another used one for $80-$120 and toss/donate that one.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

If you wanted to do it yourself as a project I would say go for it, but the cost of sending to someone else probably isn't worth it for that guitar. You can do a decent job of refinishing with spray cans from Canadian Tire or Home Depot if you you take your time.


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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm going to strip the ugly green paint job off, see how that goes with the factory finish below 

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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

CHTele_1970 said:


> I'm going to strip the ugly green paint job off, see how that goes with the factory finish below
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


That's what I was going to suggest. Poly finishes are tough as hell, you could probably remove the spray finish with a solvent without harming the poly. Try rubbing test spots with alcohol first, then basic paint thinner...failing that, go stronger thinners. Maybe xylene (wear gloves and do outside). Xylene _should _eat through a thin rattle can paint job. Not sure if Lacquer thinners or gun wash will affect Poly? Maybe someone else will know. Be sure not to get that s**t on your skin.


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## Guest (Oct 15, 2016)

Scotty said:


> Poly? Maybe someone else will know.


I used a heat gun and paint scrapper.
You can actually almost peel it off.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

laristotle said:


> I used a heat gun and paint scrapper.
> You can actually almost peel it off.


Do you mean to remove the poly also? Or just the rattle can finish?
My assumption was to save the original finish...I probably read too much into the OP's question and mixed it up with what I'd do


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Scotty said:


> My assumption was to save the original finish...


That was my assumption also.


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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

Scotty said:


> Do you mean to remove the poly also? Or just the rattle can finish?
> My assumption was to save the original finish...I probably read too much into the OP's question and mixed it up with what I'd do


Yes. Save the original finish. 

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## Guest (Oct 15, 2016)

Scotty said:


> Do you mean to remove the poly also?





CHTele_1970 said:


> Save the original finish.



Oops. Sorry.
I misread Scotty's post.
I thought you're asking how to strip the poly. doh!


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

laristotle said:


> Oops. Sorry.
> I misread Scotty's post.
> I thought you're asking how to strip the poly. doh!


Glad you mentioned it...I have an old MIJ beater I want to resurrect. I am going to try that because I CANT STAND SANDING


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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

I re did a MIM tele body last year. Used a heat gun/scraper to remove the mettalic silver finish. Then sanded the rest before staining. 

Going to try Scotty suggestion today see how that goes. 

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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

Ultimately I would like to strip the original finish as well, as I picked up a neck on ebay that is in tv yellow. I understand that is a difficult color to achieve. One step at a time...

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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

What about "paint stripper" on a poly finish? The gel-like stuff lifts paint off like anything and you just put it on, let it sit for a while, the paint bubbles, and you scrape it off. Sometimes it takes more than one application to get it all.


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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

ZeroGravity said:


> What about "paint stripper" on a poly finish? The gel-like stuff lifts paint off like anything and you just put it on, let it sit for a while, the paint bubbles, and you scrape it off. Sometimes it takes more than one application to get it all.


Going to try that. Alcohol did nothing, turpentine took off a very small layer. See how it goes. I'm starting to think they used automotive paint

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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Canadian tire sells lacquer thinner for $7.99. If that fails, Break out the heat gun or chemical stripper


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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

Scotty said:


> Canadian tire sells lacquer thinner for $7.99. If that fails, Break out the heat gun or chemical stripper


Ya that is next step.  

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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

before 








now

On to step 2, sanding and cleaning

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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Looks good. I just got off the hook from stripping my girlfriend's Tele. Do NOT let her see this.


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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

cboutilier said:


> Looks good. I just got off the hook from stripping my girlfriend's Tele. Do NOT let her see this.


Ok. No problem. The back n sides had some weird resin type substance under the black finish. Took a long time to chew through. And I removed the thin poplar/white wood veneer on the top

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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

Heat gun route? 

Whats up with the pencil/marker outline?


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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

Scotty said:


> Heat gun route?
> 
> Whats up with the pencil/marker outline?


Not too sure. That was on the wood when I pulled off the original finish. Yes it was a heat gun thing. Back was difficult, some weird resin thing about 1.5 mm thick rough going. 

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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm convinced this is mahogany. The veneer was alder. What do others think? Aside from the superficial burn marks it should sand down well. 

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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

Scotty said:


> Heat gun route?
> 
> Whats up with the pencil/marker outline?


I assume the builder outlined the pattern first then inverted it, perhaps after seeing something in the wood.


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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

When sanding use a rubber block and I would start with 120 or 180 - next 240 - then 360 if your applying automotive paint.

You could sand it and let your local body shop paint it, they likely have 50-100 leftover base coat colors you could pick from.

Then they could clear coat it next time they are doing a car.

Five minute job for each coat, 3-4 coats of color and likely 2 coats of clear.

They may tell you to finish sand with 400-600 grit or they could do it for you.

Be sure to have a bolt that goes into one of those holes so they can hang it.


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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

Bastille day said:


> When sanding use a rubber block and I would start with 120 or 180 - next 240 - then 360 if your applying automotive paint.
> 
> You could sand it and let your local body shop paint it, they likely have 50-100 leftover base coat colors you could pick from.
> 
> ...


Not too sure of the auto paint thing. Have you seen examples of it used? Good results? The autobody shop in my town said $160 to do it. A bit pricey? 

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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

I worked as an automotive painter, your options are limited, spraying a guitar is no different than spraying a car fender, just not sure if Gibson uses a lacquer based product or if they switched to a water based product. Do some research and find out what they use, I assume it's a base coat-clear coat product. $160 is a lot of money considering they can do it with a cup full of clear coat and a cup full of base coat which they likely already have. You could do it yourself, I will do a bit of research in the coming days. When you start buying everything to do it yourself, the costs add up.


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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

Thanks. I agree on the diy route: compressor, gun, hoses, and an area to do it all in. 

Would be nice to have the gear, but if it only gets used once or twice a year not too sure it's worth it. 

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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

If Looks Could Kill: How Gibson Guitars Get that World-Class Finish

According to this link they are using nitrocellulose laquer, the problem with a modern body shop is they won't have the product and maybe not know how to properly apply it. We used laquer because we were a G.M. dealership, up to the early 1980's then everything went to water based products. If you have a garage or out building, you can do it yourself. It should be at least 70 degrees, don't spray laquer anywhere there is a flame. If you do it yourself I can put together some instructions. I think lacquer is still available in spray bombs.


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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

Ok thanks. I do have a garage, not heated but have a space heater which could add heat if not too cold outside. 

I was going to try the tv yellow thing. Have read a few websites on how to do it. The body is made of mahogany so that step is cleared. 

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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

I believe Mahogany has no pores like other woods that need a sealer prior to refinishing.

Your priority is getting the base color on, a couple coats a day then you can apply the clear coat after that.

Lacquer is nice because any flaws can be fixed within a few hours.

One sheet of the above sandpaper grits should be enough, get the good automotive sandpaper and not the garbage stuff they sell at Home hardware or Canadian tire. The good sandpaper is usually grey in color, you will need a couple Scotch Brite pads to use in between coats.

I read some of the above link, contains a lot of bad information such as saying they have to remove wood filler, paint ect. from the frets using delicate sanding.

I'm signing off for the evening.


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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

The few articles I have read indicate that grain-filler must be used with mahogany. 

Spraying a Gibson style TV Yellow finish

This article appears very knowledgeable. 

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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

That may be the case, I never worked much with mahogany.

The below link gives you all the information you need to know about guitar finishes.

The guy who posted it seems to be an expert in guitar finishes.

the plain truth about Nitrocellulose finishes.


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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

CHTele_1970 said:


> The few articles I have read indicate that grain-filler must be used with mahogany.
> 
> Spraying a Gibson style TV Yellow finish
> 
> ...


I think you will have to go with a solid color as the method in the article is basically a tinted clear coat, your body seems to have some streaks of sapwood and some burn marks, if that's what they are, will show up using a tinted clear coat. Unless of course they can be sanded out, if those white streaks are sapwood, they are part of the wood and there to stay.


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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

See how it looks after I sand it. 

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## Guest (Oct 17, 2016)

After a primer/wet sand, I used a rattle can of Krylon and wet sanded to 1000 grit for this.


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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

CHTele_1970 said:


> See how it looks after I sand it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk


In that "spraying a Gibson" article you can see some white spots on the second guitar that was refinished.

Your blank body has to be perfect to go with a tinted topcoat, otherwise any imperfection will stand out.

Try not to sand the body to much in an attempt to remove the imperfections, you should know after a light sand with 120-180 what imperfections are there to stay.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

If you are going with solid colour, filler primer is a good option for small defects. You can build up multiple coats and sand smooth.


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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

ZeroGravity said:


> If you are going with solid colour, filler primer is a good option for small defects. You can build up multiple coats and sand smooth.


In the "spraying a Gibson" article you can see the primer does not go into the pores but then again, he sprayed it on dry, getting the effect of leaving the pores exposed to take the grain filler. The filler primer could be used after the pores have been filled if a solid color is going to be used.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

I'll be honest, I didn't read the article before and using a filler primer would definitely be for an opaque finish, not the same as the sort of translucent yellow in the article.


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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

Bastille day said:


> In that "spraying a Gibson" article you can see some white spots on the second guitar that was refinished.
> 
> Your blank body has to be perfect to go with a tinted topcoat, otherwise any imperfection will stand out.
> 
> Try not to sand the body to much in an attempt to remove the imperfections, you should know after a light sand with 120-180 what imperfections are there to stay.


Not too sure if the tv yellow thing will work like you said or if I'll have the time/skills or equipment to execute is properly. And like I said it's not a high grade of mahogany. The back is cut from 4 or 5 pieces glued together. 

So ya maybe a solid color is the best route. If I had a compressor/spray gun I would go with a general finish white and tint with dyes I have and see how close to a faded yellow I could get. 

I'm sure the autobody guys could do it, but what is the cost offset? 

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## Bastille day (Mar 2, 2014)

CHTele_1970 said:


> Not too sure if the tv yellow thing will work like you said or if I'll have the time/skills or equipment to execute is properly. And like I said it's not a high grade of mahogany. The back is cut from 4 or 5 pieces glued together.
> 
> So ya maybe a solid color is the best route. If I had a compressor/spray gun I would go with a general finish white and tint with dyes I have and see how close to a faded yellow I could get.
> 
> ...


You wouldn't have to tint with a solid color.

You could do it yourself at minimum cost and have it look decent.

Problem with leaving it with a body shop is who they let work on it.

They usually use three or four boards glued together to prevent warping.


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## CHTele_1970 (Oct 11, 2012)

Bastille day said:


> You wouldn't have to tint with a solid color.
> 
> You could do it yourself at minimum cost and have it look decent.
> 
> ...


I disagree on the warping theory. They do that because it's cheap and using scrap wood to build bodies make them money. I had a MIM telecaster that was exactly the same. About 3 or 4 pieces of alder glued together. A real expensive guitar will be made from one piece of wood, or at least book matched from one piece. 

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## Guest (Oct 17, 2016)

A MIM strat I had was 5 piece. lol.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

laristotle said:


> A MIM strat I had was 5 piece. lol.


My CVC Squire is 4pc Alder.


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