# First DIY Cab mods...



## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Well,

I figured since it's my first Father's Day, I would use some time this afternoon to modify a 1x12 that was graciously given to me.

The main concern was the fiberglass house insulation that was inside. So, to remedy that, I used egg crate type foam on all sides. I also carpeted the front panel, and moved the feet so that the cab's orientation is vertical. Lastly, I covered up the port (this was previously a bass cab).

I was also hoping to re-wire the speaker and terminal, however, once again soldering was my downfall...I will enlist the assistance of my soldering guru (greco) to help me finish it up 

The next few posts will have the progress pics.

Comments welcome!

~Andrew


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Hi Andrew: 

Happy 1st Father's Day (as a father)

Glad you changed the insulation. Re-orienting the feet was a good idea also.

You have me curious about the carpeting...did you put it on the front of the baffle?

Is there a problem with the wiring? 

Cheers

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi Dave,

Yes, I carpeted the front of the baffle...couldn't remember the word! It looks a little cleaner now!

As for the wiring, there wasn't anything wrong before I started  hehe...

Here are the pics in order:




























*If anyone has info on this speaker, it would be appreciated!!*


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)




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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)




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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)




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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

kw_guitarguy said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> Yes, I carpeted the front of the baffle...couldn't remember the word! It looks a little cleaner now!
> 
> As for the wiring, there wasn't anything wrong* before *I started  hehe...


Thanks for all the pics. Looks like you did a lot of work.

What happened to the wiring..."after you started" one might ask?  hehe

I can do that soldering for you. Give me a call or send a PM

Cheers

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi Dave,

Yeah, it was a fun few hours. I know the inside could look much better, but all the foam was free, so I figured I would give it a shot!

As for the wiring, I prefer to solder speaker connections (old habit from car audio) and, well, it just didn't turn out. I tried my pistol type soldering iron and one like yours and I still couldn't do it.

So basically, I need the ends re-soldered to the jack and then soldered to the speaker.

I will let you know when I have some more time 

~Andrew


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

kw_guitarguy said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> As for the wiring, *I prefer to solder speaker connections (old habit from car audio)* and, well, it just didn't turn out. I tried my pistol type soldering iron and one like yours and I still couldn't do it.
> 
> ...


Now I get it...BTW, bring your "pencil" iron (not the pistol type) when you come over and I'll show you while using your iron. What is the wattage of the "pencil" iron?...maybe it is too low. 

Cheers

Dave


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

I like to tin the wire, pre solder.. then run it in the speaker lead hole if it has it or wrap it around the connector.
I then tin the tip of the soldering iron which makes the heat transfer to the speaker jack much faster, everything blends up nice after that..

Bev


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

kw_guitarguy said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> Yeah, it was a fun few hours. I know the inside could look much better, but all the foam was free, so I figured I would give it a shot!
> 
> ...


Whatever you do, do NOT use lead-free solder!

Anybody who sells this stuff has obviously never tried to use it for hand soldering. You need so much extra heat that it can be all but impossible to get a good connection. 

This means stay away from Crappy Tire. They no longer appear to have anything but lead-free crap. Go to a real electronics store.

:food-smiley-004:


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Wild Bill said:


> Whatever you do, do NOT use lead-free solder!
> 
> 
> :food-smiley-004:


Thanks Wild Bill.

Is lead-free solder going to replace ALL solder with lead content eventually?

If so, I'm going to buy some extra solder with lead content.

Cheers

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Wow, thanks Wild Bill!

I think my solder is lead free, so I will now be on the lookout for some leaded stuff!

~Andrew


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Try The Source (Radio Shack) ...I think they have it. 

In the K-W area, that might be the quickest for you. However, their prices are not always the lowest. See if they carry "Kester" solder (IIRC) and get a fairly small diameter as it is easier to use for other jobs (like A/B pedals.... hwopv). 

BTW...what is your "pencil" iron's wattage?

The reason I keep asking is that I stayed up to the early hours in the morning a (few years back) trying to help a guy in California do a wiring job and pickup swap on his guitar (335 style) through the Seymour Duncan forum. He could not get the soldering to work at all. Then he told me his iron was rated at *6 watts *(I didn't know that an iron with wattage that low actually existed) I went to bed and he bought a new iron next day. And we lived happily ever after.


Cheers

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi Dave,

I just checked the label and it appears to be a 25watt iron.

My pistol iron is 140 watts...but I can't get a pencil tip for it which stinks!

~Andrew


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

kw_guitarguy said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> I just checked the label and it appears to be a 25watt iron.
> 
> ...


Thanks Andrew

25 watts is about the lowest I would go (let's see what others say) ...AND if you also have the lead-free solder (which I have never tried) this combination might explain your soldering frustrations.

PM me if you don't have any success once you have tried using the solder with lead.

The pistol style irons are awkward to use (IMHO) and the guys on the Seymour Duncan forum felt that they could cause a problem with the magnetic fields of pickups...not sure if this is accurate or pure myth. Maybe J.S. Moore (or anyone following this thread) could give an opinion on this.

Cheers

Dave


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Wild Bill said:


> Whatever you do, do NOT use lead-free solder!
> 
> Anybody who sells this stuff has obviously never tried to use it for hand soldering. You need so much extra heat that it can be all but impossible to get a good connection.
> 
> ...





greco said:


> Thanks Wild Bill.
> 
> Is lead-free solder going to replace ALL solder with lead content eventually?
> 
> ...


Hey guys. It is a part of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restriction_of_Hazardous_Substances_Directive

I have no idea how the industry is changing. Heat is the devil to a LOT of components, and silver does take a lot more. Though I know there are a lot more conductive plastics and glues used to affix things happening these days too.

But, that is the krux of it. The raw quantity of stock is disappearing and being replaced by ROHS compliant stock, from the parts levels on up.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

greco said:


> Thanks Andrew
> 
> 25 watts is about the lowest I would go (let's see what others say) ...AND if you also have the lead-free solder (which I have never tried) this combination might explain your soldering frustrations.
> 
> ...



I used to frustrate myself with the pistol style. If you're going to be doing a fair amount of soldering get a station, it's well worth the investment. I used to have a 40 watt pencil style which did the job for pickups and guitar re-wiring but I don't think I ever used it for speakers. I don't see why it wouldn't be hot enough to do the job though.

As for lead free solder, I'd rather poke myself in the eye with a sharp stick. It doesn't flow and it's far too easy to get a cold joint.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

greco said:


> The pistol style irons are awkward to use (IMHO) and *the guys on the Seymour Duncan forum felt that they could cause a problem with the magnetic fields of pickups...not sure if this is accurate or pure myth*. Maybe J.S. Moore (or anyone following this thread) could give an opinion on this


Jon...As a maker of fine pickups, can you please comment on the bolded part.

Sorry Andrew...not meaning to derail your thread.

Thanks 

Dave


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

greco said:


> The pistol style irons are awkward to use (IMHO) and the guys on the Seymour Duncan forum felt that they could cause a problem with the magnetic fields of pickups...not sure if this is accurate or pure myth. Maybe J.S. Moore (or anyone following this thread) could give an opinion on this.


I don't believe this to be true. The heat needed to disrupt or weaken a magnet is a couple of thousand degrees Fahrenheit. The bobbins would melt before you would have any effect on the magnet. You may be able to do it with a grinding wheel re-shaping or cutting them but not with a soldering iron. Mine is set at 700 degrees and I have never had a problem. EMF wouldn't be a factor either. If you did manage it somehow you can always re-gauss the magnet.

The one thing the pistol style will do is cook a potentiometer. Way too much heat. You may be able to melt the plastic parts of a jack as well.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

J S Moore said:


> EMF wouldn't be a factor either. If you did manage it somehow you can always re-gauss the magnet.


*Thanks Jon...* It was actually the EMF from the pistol style irons that they were concerned about. However, this concern was constantly debated as being more theoretical than fact.

*Andrew...*Just for a reference, my iron is 40-45 watts at the maximum setting and it manages direct soldering to speaker terminals just fine. Did you manage to get get some new solder and repair the jack and ternminal? 
Be careful not to unsolder the tiny spider wire that goes from the terminal to the cone...you might want to put a heat sink (an alligator clip will work) on those wires, close to the terminal.

Let me know how the repair is progresing.

Cheers

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

Thanks Jon, Bill and Dave for the soldering info! I am working on getting out and getting some leaded solder. Once I do, I will try my pencil iron again and see what happens!

Thanks again everyone for the tips and advice, it's great to learn something new!

~Andrew


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## Rugburn (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm very familiar LF solder and it sucks for any number of applications. I took a course in advanced hand-soldering last fall. Doing SMT (Surface Mount Technology) projects under a microscope using LF solder, is an excercise in frustrationn I wouldn't soon want to repeat. Unfortunately, it will become standard due to the RoHS agreement. Sayal carries leaded solder.

http://www.sayal.com/

Shawn


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## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

greco said:


> *Thanks Jon...* It was actually the EMF from the pistol style irons that they were concerned about. However, this concern was constantly debated as being more theoretical than fact.
> 
> *Andrew...*Just for a reference, my iron is 40-45 watts at the maximum setting and it manages direct soldering to speaker terminals just fine. Did you manage to get get some new solder and repair the jack and ternminal?
> Be careful not to unsolder the tiny spider wire that goes from the terminal to the cone...you might want to put a heat sink (an alligator clip will work) on those wires, close to the terminal.
> ...


A soldering gun throws off a huge electromagnetic field and there is no way you need 100 watts on a speaker. Dave is quite right about damaging the spider wires.

I demagnetize my screwdrivers with a gun. Insert the shaft in the tip loop, pull the trigger and pull it out. No more magnet.

I think I'll keep it away from my electronics. Variable heat soldering stations are the way to go. Worth every penny. So are crimp-on terminals.:smile:


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Fader said:


> A soldering gun throws off a huge electromagnetic field and there is no way you need 100 watts on a speaker. Dave is quite right about damaging the spider wires.
> 
> I demagnetize my screwdrivers with a gun. Insert the shaft in the tip loop, pull the trigger and pull it out. No more magnet.
> 
> I think I'll keep it away from my electronics. Variable heat soldering stations are the way to go. Worth every penny. So are crimp-on terminals.:smile:


Thanks Fader...interesting information.

J.S. Moore indicated that the magnets could be "re-gaussed" if the EMF from the solder gun created a problem....I'm just not sure how one goes about "re-gaussing" magnets and I didn't want to bug Jon for an answer or derail this thread (more than I have already).

Your screwdriver demagnetizing concept is very cool!...and certainly points to the potential problem these soldering guns could create with magnets. 

As for the crimp on terminals...I had put those on the wires to that speaker, but kw_guitarguy prefers to solder the wires directly.

I (also) have a variable temperature soldering station and really like it. 

Cheers

Dave


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Fader said:


> A soldering gun throws off a huge electromagnetic field and there is no way you need 100 watts on a speaker. Dave is quite right about damaging the spider wires.
> 
> *I demagnetize my screwdrivers with a gun. Insert the shaft in the tip loop, pull the trigger and pull it out. No more magnet.*
> 
> I think I'll keep it away from my electronics. Variable heat soldering stations are the way to go. Worth every penny. So are crimp-on terminals.:smile:



:sport-smiley-002:but then how are you supposed to get the screw to stick to the driver!


Oh them fine wires are also not always wire, sometimes they are "wires" plural with each strand insulated (I have seen it, like litz wire only heavier gage) and over heating that can have negative consequences too. 

If I don't miss my guess, terminal connectors do not tend to actually "connect", they have two or three contact zones that can/will oxidise and then get scratchy as heck. Also, if you have #14 wire and use a connector the contact zone may be #10 or it could be #20 you do not know, because it is bent metal that makes a ground on pressure held connection. Soldering gives you better control over both issues.


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## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

keeperofthegood said:


> :sport-smiley-002:but then how are you supposed to get the screw to stick to the driver!
> 
> 
> Oh them fine wires are also not always wire, sometimes they are "wires" plural with each strand insulated (I have seen it, like litz wire only heavier gage) and over heating that can have negative consequences too.
> ...


Just let your screwdriver hang off the speaker magnet for a while. Then you can stick screws again. And metal chips too.

True. Crimp connectors in poor condition can be problematic, and if I ever get to a stage where I'm totally satisfied with a speaker, I'll be soldering the connections. Right now, I'm having too much fun swapping them out and trying different configurations. I've had three different types of drivers in my 1960A since Christmas and I don't want to waste my precious supply of lead solder.:smile:


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

Here's me again to contribute to a topic de-rail. Just out of curiosity I fired up my pistol style solder gun to see if I could pick up some screws with it. No luck. So it may create an EMF field but not the kind that will interfere with a magnet. Anything electrical will create a field. The speakers themselves work by creating a magnetic field in a coil to move the cone back and forth by repelling or attracting ( or maybe just repelling) the field of the permanent magnet. I would hazard a guess that the EMF field in some speakers is as large or larger than a soldering gun and those magnets seem to do okay.

I have quite a simple gauss setup actually. Neodymium magnets in a vise to create a circuit, pass the magnet between them and they're ready to go.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

This is a fun trio of videos. About 3:30 in of part 1 is apropos to the side conversation happening in this thread  Oh and 5:30 too 



[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCR4w4hAtRo]zCR4w4hAtRo[/youtube]

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCqrGyEJFqc]iCqrGyEJFqc[/youtube]

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=144MHgNrKb8]144MHgNrKb8[/youtube]​


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## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

J S Moore said:


> Here's me again to contribute to a topic de-rail. Just out of curiosity I fired up my pistol style solder gun to see if I could pick up some screws with it. No luck. So it may create an EMF field but not the kind that will interfere with a magnet. Anything electrical will create a field. The speakers themselves work by creating a magnetic field in a coil to move the cone back and forth by repelling or attracting ( or maybe just repelling) the field of the permanent magnet. I would hazard a guess that the EMF field in some speakers is as large or larger than a soldering gun and those magnets seem to do okay.
> 
> I have quite a simple gauss setup actually. Neodymium magnets in a vise to create a circuit, pass the magnet between them and they're ready to go.


It's an AC/DC thing. DC will magnetize, AC will demagnetize.
Your gun is producing a field that changes 120 times a second. It will degauss your screws not attract them. 

You would be hard pressed to demagnetize a speaker, but those tiny little magnets in your pick-up are a real possibility. Why risk it?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

*Andrew...Forgiveth me for I hath deraileth your thread.... royally* 

Thanks for the opportunity to learn from your thread.

Cheers

Dave


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

No worries Dave!

As an update, I picked up some leaded solder and finished the cab up this morning, sounds good!!

Now, does anyone have info on that speaker? What amp would it have been from??

~Andrew


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

kw_guitarguy said:


> No worries Dave!
> 
> As an update, I picked up some leaded solder and finished the cab up this morning, sounds good!!
> 
> ...


Thought I'd add another 0.02 here about crimp connectors. I love 'em!:smile:

However, you absolutely have to do them right! I had training sessions back when I used to sell them from the factory. The key factors are first to always use the right size for the gauge of wire and second to USE A PROPER CRIMPING TOOL!

It's amazing how many guys, including techs who should know better, out there who use side cutters or pliers to "squash" a crimp connector. This almost guarantees something that will screw up over time. Crimp terminals are made to be squashed by proper crimp connectors. Once crimped, they will be fine for generations!

Under a proper crimp, air can't get between the contacts. So oxidation never occurs.

With speakers, it's also important to get the right width of female terminal on the wire. Speakers come with at least two different widths of the male terminal. If you get one that is too wide it will wobble on the other terminal, not making good contact over a wide enough area to work reliably over the years.

If you do them right, the next guy who has to change out the speaker will bless you for it! Soldering takes more time and there is always the worry about dropping solder onto the paper cone. When I DO solder the terminals I alwas but a wad of paper towel under the terminals to catch any solder drips.

Others may disagree but hey, it works for this old guy!:smile:

:food-smiley-004:


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## The Kicker Of Elves (Jul 20, 2006)

keeperofthegood said:


> This is a fun trio of videos. About 3:30 in of part 1 is apropos to the side conversation happening in this thread  Oh and 5:30 too


Hey, thanks for putting these up, hadn't seen them before.

I was happily geeking out listening to Evan Skopp talk about specific pickups and the science behind them. :food-smiley-004:


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