# The Moderne - Holy Grail of Vintage Guitars



## Silvertone

Hello everyone. I've been discussing this build for quite some time and am ready to at the very least start a thread. ;-) As some of you know my build threads can take quite some time. This hopefully will be quicker than most of my others as I have just been laid off from work. I view this as a good thing as I have lots of stuff to catch up on.


I will be working with Ron Wood, who wrote the book at this guitar. Literally - I highly recommend this book as a must have coffee table book if you are even remotely interested in the modernistic guitars Gibson tried to put out in the late 50's. I'll do a little history lesson in some future posts.

Here is the cover of Ron's book -










I have started the drawings for two designs of this guitar. One is what would have been considered the "proto-type" and the other the "production" model. Although it is debate whether either type was created. To a lesser extent the proto-types but the production model was never made.

Here is a screen shot of these two designs and their current state of CAD design.










I'll be building at least 2 or 3 of these guitars, so it should be really fun. This is just a little teaser I'll throw up for now and I will try and update as I continue. Thanks.

Regards Peter.


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## laristotle

I think that the 'V' or reverse 'V' headstock looks better.


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## Diablo

laristotle said:


> I think that the 'V' or reverse 'V' headstock looks better.
> 
> View attachment 324117


I always hated that clubbed foot headstock.


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## laristotle

The hockey stick would look better on it, IMO.


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## Sketchy Jeff

what are those things like for playing position standing and sitting? they seem on one hand kind of like a flying V modern for its own sake even if it kills you and on the other hand like a sort of proto Stranberg ergonomics before everything approach and I've never tried one to see which one it is

i guess you can get used to anything - i find dreadnaught size acoustics the most comfortable to play and a strat just about impossible. if i could have a telecaster the size of a dreadnaught i'd be all over it 

j


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## starjag

So weird looking yet so adorable.


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## Silvertone

laristotle said:


> I think that the 'V' or reverse 'V' headstock looks better.
> 
> View attachment 324117


Yes - I really like the split V head stock. I did a Futura recently with that head stock and a MOP big "G" logo.









Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

laristotle said:


> The hockey stick would look better on it, IMO.
> 
> View attachment 324130


I do like the Explorer head stock and it's one of the better head stocks from a constructability perspective. Not so much from a complexity but definitely from size of stock. I can make an Explorer neck with 8/4 rough stock unlike the others where I need 12/4. I'm not sure I would like the Futura with that head stock though.

Regards Peter.


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## FlyingFred

Once again, Peter, you really are going for a model that appeals to me! I believe the Gumbonheadstockmis the one that mimics the known drawings of the instrument, but, all things said, being that it is yet to be proven to be in existence, the other headstock shapes do look good too.


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## Kenmac

Sketchy Jeff said:


> what are those things like for playing position standing and sitting? they seem on one hand kind of like a flying V modern for its own sake even if it kills you and on the other hand like a sort of proto Stranberg ergonomics before everything approach and I've never tried one to see which one it is
> 
> i guess you can get used to anything - i find dreadnaught size acoustics the most comfortable to play and a strat just about impossible. if i could have a telecaster the size of a dreadnaught i'd be all over it
> 
> j


They're surprisingly comfortable. I have a Dillion Moderne I bought awhile back. Here's a photo of it:


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## zontar

I've never played any of the ModernesGibson (& Epiphone) eventually made--but I have played an Ibanez one--and found it very comfortable.
It had a headstock like the one below--based on the usual Gibson style ones for many guitars, such as Les Pauls & SGs
As for looks--when horizontal it is kind of Shark fin-esque.


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## Silvertone

Head stock options. I kinda like all of these. The gumby the least though, which seems like the most valid for at least the proto-type.










Cheers Peter.


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## Budda

V or Explorer.


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## laristotle

Headstock match the body contour?


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## Silvertone

Starting to get wood organized for these builds. I've been communicating with Ron quite a bit. As noted above, he wrote the book on the Moderne but also owns a few. He has one from the first "re-issues" that Gibson did back in the early '80s and a couple of the Epiphone versions that were done more recently. We been measuring and documenting everything we can. We may even have the guitar laser scanned at some point. Here are a few pics of his 80s Moderne




















I picked up some Mahogany recently and also some Korina. I managed to find a couple of one piece body blanks and grabbed some Korina for necks and two piece bodies from a friend of mine. Thanks to Tom Bartlett for letting me raid his stash. ;-)









Cheers Peter.


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## nnieman

Silvertone said:


> Head stock options. I kinda like all of these. The gumby the least though, which seems like the most valid for at least the proto-type.
> 
> View attachment 324255
> 
> 
> Cheers Peter.


I love the v headstock with the modern body.

Nathan


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## mhammer

The Moderne is kind of the guitar equivalent of the Avro Arrow: an instrument that existed on the drafting table but not in the stores..
Personally, I like the look of the classic Gibson "open book" headstock, rather than any of the pointy headstocks. That said, I'm curious about the impact of the various headstocks on string tension. At first blush the Flying V "arrowhead" seems like it provides the most equal path from the tuner to the nut for all strings.


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## Silvertone

Got a little bit of time tonight. Decided to joint the Korina and Mahogany for the two piece bodies. Onto the jointer first -









This stuff looks really nice even in the rough and it is quite light as well. Again thanks to Tom Bartlett for the beautiful Korina.

I cut the one long plank down in two pieces about 5' long each. If I am lucky I should be able to get 3 two piece bodies out of the one 10' plank. Jointed one side then into the thickness planer to plane down to get a look at the wood.










I really just want to take enough wood off to try an find any imperfections or knots that I will try an avoid when laying out the bodies. Not too much to worry about in that respect.

The body halfs will end up being slip matched trying to keep the same orientation and same side. This is important to make the joint as invisible as possible. It's nice that this board and all the other ones were pretty much quarter sawn.

Laying out the blanks.










I slipped matched the middle and laid out the others to miss the slight amount of black limba on the edge. Should be good.

Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

I cut up and jointed and planed the two piece bodies. I've got one mahogany two piece and one korina two piece. Both planks I purchase were pretty well quarter sawn, so the body joins should be almost invisible. I've marked out the moderne body shape on all the bodies. I haven't glued up the two piece bodies yet.

Two piece bodies -









one piece bodies -










Cheers Peter,


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## Silvertone

Glue up day yesterday - thicknessed a bit and jointed a nice clean joint. Lots of clamping pressure helps to create an almost seamless joint.

Mahogany -









Korina -









Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

Getting a little closer as far as the drawings. Just coordinating dimensional information with Ron from his measurements from his re-issue and extrapolating from what he, and others, know about those early modernistic guitars. Fun stuff but lots of work.


The most notable differences would be the extra long tenon and the wiring channel under the pick guard. From a lot of sources we have assumed that the "production" version of the Moderne would probably most resemble the construction of the Explorer.








I will also be designing and building something closer to the proto-type design, which had a larger pickguard a switch like the Explorer and the output jack in the end of the body.










Cheers Peter.


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## Milkman

Funny, but when I glanced at the sketches you posted, I noted a similarity to the Ovation Deacons and Breadwinners.


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## Markus 1

Diablo said:


> I always hated that clubbed foot headstock.


Its absurd


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## Silvertone

That head stock is starting to grow on me but I still like pretty much all the others better. I think the split V would work well. I like the Explorer for ease of building because I can make a one piece neck from 8/4 material because of the way the hockey stick is pieced together.

Just organizing some material today. I got a bonus from work a while back in the form of an Amazon gift card and looked around at guitar suppliers where I could spend the $$$. Looks like Luxe takes Amazon Pay! Perfect. Took me a bit of math to figure out exactly what I could get for almost the exact $ amount of my bonus but it was worth it. Here is what I got -










Should last me a little while. Enough for about 30 guitars. Best bonus I ever got! ;-)

I also sat down on a ZOOM call this morning with Ron for a couple of hours and worked out some details. I've got the bodies all worked out and now I can move on to 3d models and CAM files. We have drawn up 3 distinct different plans.

The Proto-type - Ron has seen a guitar that had the switch location like that of the Explorer. Also the output jack is on the side of the body inside the treble wing.









The Production model, which is possibly the way Gibson would've created these if they went to production in 1957.










And the Re-issue. This is the way that Gibson built the re-issue models in the early 80's, basically how Ron's 82 Re-issue was built. Notice the very short tenon and wire channel underneath the bridge and tailpiece.










Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

Ok - back at it here. Pretty much ready to cut some bodies out. I've modelled both versions in Fusion 360 and toying with adding the neck plane as a tool path to cut on the CNC.








There was lots of back and forth with Ron on these designs. I've also had some discussions with someone who has had some info on a couple original 58 Modernistic guitars. We think the design above probably would've been what was developed as the "production" version of the Moderne had it made it that far.


Working on the neck info now and possibly a couple of different profiles.










A few of the details worked out included neck mortise, tenon length, tuner and string ferrule layouts, as well as probable wire channel, pup depths, and stop tail details.

Cheers Peter.


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## SWLABR

WOW, you are a talent!! 

If I could share my two cents on the headstock options. I agree the club-foot are just so very unappealing!! I like the _look_ of the other three options, but I would personally narrow it down to the traditional V or the Explorer due to tuning stability. The Reverse V creates too much break-angle at the nut. I think even more than the LP SG heads... no??


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## KapnKrunch

That Gumby headstock is absurd... I LOVE IT! I hope you take that route... 👍👍❤❤❗


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## Silvertone

Went over to a friend's place and went "shopping" through his vintage parts boxes. Here is what I pulled out for one of these guitars.









also picked up some 59 LP parts for an upcoming build. I haven't decided on pups for the LP but should be set for the rest. 










Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

I setup all the tool paths for the bodies for both designs. I had to modify my stock and indexing pins for these "huge" bodies. Lots of waste though. Now that I'm looking at it, I might be able to get half a Flying V body out of the waste material... but probably not. 




















I also spent some time and detailed out the neck so I can model that up and get that in Fusion 360 as well. I haven't decided on head stock design for one of these builds, possibly two, so I made the neck so I could use any of the Gibson style head stocks.










Cheers Peter.


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## ezcomes

Are you able to model out the guitar with the neck and headstock? That may make the decision easier...off the body, the Dean style headstock looks the nicest to me, but on the body, it might not...ie...it may help you make your decision


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## Silvertone

ezcomes said:


> Are you able to model out the guitar with the neck and headstock? That may make the decision easier...off the body, the Dean style headstock looks the nicest to me, but on the body, it might not...ie...it may help you make your decision


There are a few images back in post #12 to show all the CAD plans with different head stock options.









Regards Peter.


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## ezcomes

The explorer headstock looks the best...imo


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## Silvertone

Fired up the CNC machine tonight. I have to tweak some toolpaths but everything went pretty smooth.

I did the back first and even drilled 1/16" location holes for the control cavity cover.









Flipped it over and did the rest of the toolpaths. I really like this Korina.



















Cheers Peter.


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## ezcomes

Looks great!


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## bolero

that is pretty cool!

I have a Korina Moderne, with the Gumby headstock, and like the gtr quite a bit

it is way more comfortable to play sitting down, than a V 

Also apparently Ren Wall let his daughter take one of the original Gibson Moderne's to school one day, for show & tell in the '60's. Speculation is Gibson cut them up a few years later (?) would be interested in reading that fellow's book though


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## Silvertone

onto fret boards. Vintage rule of 18 with cellulose nitrate inlays and curved fret slots. I punched out some dots from a small sheet of cellulose nitrate material.








I cut the dot inalys first on the flat boards and glued in the dots. Then I radiused the board and cut it out and slotted. All on the CNC machine. Should take very little sanding to make a nice smooth surface.


















Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

Now the fret boards are done, for now, I will work on the necks. I have a few neck blanks mostly Honduran Mahogany. I still have to find a decent Korina neck blank. I think I might have to settle for a two piece laminated neck. I have a bunch of Korina cut for necks but it is pretty much quarter sawn so not good for what I want to do.









I think I'll save these for Explorer necks. I'm going to try and pick up some flat sawn pieces this weekend. Here is my layout in CAD for my first process for the necks. Basically take a rectangular blank and cut some indexing holes, head stock angle, truss rod and anchor route, as well as neck angle to align with the body on this extra long tenon.








I use these drawings to create what represents my stock in Fusion and get ready to develop tool paths.









Once I have the 3d model developed I can create the tool paths.









Cheers Peter.


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## SWLABR

Did you settle on which headstock design you are going to use??


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## Silvertone

I'm doing at least two Gumby, I think. I could easily do an Explorer as I have a lot of wood that would work for that. I probably have 8 Explorer necks in those quarter sawn Korina blanks. You can use 8/4 material for Explorers because of the way those necks are built. Everything else needs 12/4 pretty much for a one piece neck. I cannot find any 12/4 Korina.

Regards Peter.


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## Silvertone

Got some time with the CNC machine and tweaking tool paths.









Machined truss rod route, anchor, and roughed the head stock angle.









Finish pass on the head stock angle









Cut the truss rod access route with the Stew Mac truss rod access cutter. I had a 3/4" spot facer with a spacer but this tool worked very well. Pretty much idiot proof which is good. :yesway:









Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

Fired up the HHG crock pot and glued in some filler strips. These are mahogany filler strips unlike the maple in a LP. The original necks on these were Korina like the Explorers and Vs and those guitars used the same wood for filler strips as the neck. So I thought I would make these from mahogany like the neck wood. 










Cheers Peter.


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## Milkman

Silvertone said:


> Fired up the HHG crock pot and glued in some filler strips. These are mahogany filler strips unlike the maple in a LP. The original necks on these were Korina like the Explorers and Vs and those guitars used the same wood for filler strips as the neck. So I thought I would make these from mahogany like the neck wood.
> 
> View attachment 349785
> 
> 
> Cheers Peter.


Living the dream. 

It's inspiring to see someone using the right tools combined with the know how and patience needed to get the kind of results we would all love to produce.


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## Silvertone

Milkman said:


> Living the dream.
> 
> It's inspiring to see someone using the right tools combined with the know how and patience needed to get the kind of results we would all love to produce.


Thanks a lot. I'm starting to get all the correct tools. I'm learning patience. I'm starting on the journey towards know how!  It's all very fun and it's great that I can even do more of this with all the restrictions. Although I'm starting to struggle to find some supplies.

Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

I cut out the mahogany neck. Lot's of wood left for head stock ears.










I also have the neck all modeled and ready to be cut in Fusion 360.









I bought a nice plank of Korina to make some necks as well. The boards I got from Tom B. ended up being quarter sawn and I will keep those for Explorer necks. I bought a 72" long x 10" wide x 8/4 chunk of Korina. It is flat sawn so should work out well for two piece laminated necks.

rough plank -









cross cut into 32" with a bit left over for some covers or something.









ripped into 3 equal pieces for each part. Should be almost quarter sawn when laminated.








Will get 3 necks from this plank. I still haven't decided on head stock shape. Definitely one Gumby and possibly a split V.

Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

After quite a bit of delay, I have returned to working on this project. I have added the toolpaths to the neck model.









indexed the neck back into the CNC machine.









rough carve.









finish carve.









completed with tenon.









and a quick mockup.










Cheers Peter.


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## ezcomes

That looks pretty good so far!!


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## Silvertone

ezcomes said:


> That looks pretty good so far!!


Thanks. That is saying something about this design! 🤣 

Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

Large ears on this thing. Cut a couple of pieces from the left over mahogany from the neck blank.









Glued them up and placed the paper cutout of the template over top.








This head stock still freaks me out a bit but think I may grow to like it at some point, hopefully soon. 

Cheers Peter.


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## KapnKrunch

Silvertone said:


> This head stock still freaks me out a bit but think I may grow to like it at some point


Good move going with the Gumby headstock!! Anything else is a failure to meet the full charm of this unusual looking guitar. Great project!!


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## Smylight

KapnKrunch said:


> Good move going with the Gumby headstock!! Anything else is a failure to meet the full charm of this unusual looking guitar. Great project!!


I'm with the Cap'n. It has to look this way to look, well, "right".


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## SWLABR

Was thinking about this thread the other day. Glad to see the update.


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## Silvertone

I planed the ears flat with the head stock and CNC'd a head stock template. Quick layout of printed head stock.









and cut template from 1/2" plywood.









1/4" diameter tuner holes and 1/8" diameter string guide holes. I'll do a quick mock up of some tuners just to make sure the location works.

Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

Also started the Korina neck. I planed and cut to size and setup in the CNC machine to run the neck top toolpaths.









I cut the head stock angle, indexing holes for when I flip it over, truss rod cavity, and truss rod anchor. This is for a vintage one way rod so it is 1/8" deeper at the tenon end.









Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

Got out my Stew Mac vintage truss rod jig for the Korina neck. Frankly I think the one I had before was better but I guess it does the job.


















Regards Peter.


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## Silvertone

Got out my rods and had to tap the vintage rod. I had done a bunch a while back but guess I went through them. I bought a cheap tap and die set years ago and it works pretty well.









Installed -









Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

I rummaged through my wood pile for an elusive wide piece of holly I knew I had somewhere. I finally found it and it was just large enough for the gumby head stock. 









I sliced a few veneers off for my head stock inlays and a couple extra.









Cheers Peter.


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## ezcomes

What did you use to slice your veneers? Bandsaw?


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## Silvertone

ezcomes said:


> What did you use to slice your veneers? Bandsaw?


Yes - just a bandsaw. I try and slice as thin as I can. Holly is not particularly cheap but you do not need much and it slices very easily.

Cheers Peter.


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## Milkman

LOL, I'd give my left nut for your tools (and the skills to use them effectively).


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## Silvertone

Milkman said:


> LOL, I'd give my left nut for your tools (and the skills to use them effectively).


Funny, that's about what the tools cost. Maybe a little bit more. ;-) I have purchased all of my tools with proceeds from what I produce using them. I cut down a bunch of walnut trees over the years and sold a lot of live edge slabs and now making a lot of charcuterie boards and the odd guitar here and there. I have a small business and an account where I deposit $$$. Luckily I have a full time gig that I direct some money into my "hobby account" as well. I just built another building for a shop expansion, which I am excited about. My wife just bought me a nice present for my birthday, which I picked up last weekend. I will probably tell her about it soon! 🤣
























I am putting a slab flattening mill inside my new shop and also a paint booth so this will come in handy to keep the dust down. I just put it together over the past few days and it was a bit of a nightmare. So many small pieces and the manual is almost completely useless. Luckily there were some youtube videos. I'm just getting over the PTSD regarding the build. LOL. It wasn't that bad but I needed a lot of tools and needed to Macgyver a lot of things that I should not have had to do with such an expensive item. Oh well. It's done now and on to more Moderne build thoughts.

Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

I thicknessed the head stock and also used my template to shape the head stock. I cut close to shape on the bandsaw then sanded very close to the line on my sander then onto the router table to bring the head stock to final shape. Sorry no pics.

I designed the holly head stock veneer on my CAM software.









and laid out a piece of holly on the machine.









cut it out.









aligned on the head stock.









and glued it up.









Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

I took the clamps off and cleaned up the edges of the head stock with a pattern bit in the router table. You can see my template that I used to shape the head stock prior to gluing on the oversized holly veneer. I offset the veneer by about 1/16" all the way around and lined it up with the tuner holes and truss rod access.










Cleaned up the glue squeeze out in the inlay pocket.









Glued in the MOP big G inlay with some CA glue to get ready for epoxy.









mixed up some slow set epoxy and added a couple drops of black dye.









It looks pretty good. I hit the bubbles with a barbeque starter, little blow torch, and it smoothed out nicely. This will take a few days to fully cure before I can level sand but I have lots of other work to do.

While I was waiting I drilled the wire channels with my extra long drill bits and worked my way up to 3/8" diameter into the control cavity.










Cheers Peter.


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## Milkman

Note to self....buy long drill bits.

I just received these which are also very handy for guitar work.

Love the precision of your routes. Thanks for posting the pics. I'm watching and trying to learn.


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## Silvertone

Milkman said:


> Note to self....buy long drill bits.
> 
> I just received these which are also very handy for guitar work.
> 
> Love the precision of your routes. Thanks for posting the pics. I'm watching and trying to learn.
> 
> View attachment 365289



Thanks - I think I bought all of those bits at Home Depot. I had a set of longer drill bits I bought from Grizzly a while back but gave them to a friend. I have yet to replace them but they are handy for the smaller holes like ground wire etc. Now I am having a hard time finding them.









Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

So the epoxy cured enough last night for me to work on the neck tenon / cheeks. It'll need a couple more days before I can sand it down. I used my CNC machine from the underside of the neck to cut the cheeks, which leaves a 3/16" radius. I need to square that off. I just do this with a sharp chisel to leave a nice clean edge.

before -









after -









and neck joint - side









neck joint - top









I intentionally made the heel a little longer so I can blend in after I glue it up. I am very happy with the fit. It will need a bit of fine tuning but hopefully not too much. This is one of my favorite parts and spend an inordinate amount of time trying to get the fit as tight as I can. Good thing I don't charge by the hour. :naughty:

Another mockup -









Cheers Peter.


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## nnieman

Milkman said:


> Note to self....buy long drill bits.
> 
> I just received these which are also very handy for guitar work.
> 
> Love the precision of your routes. Thanks for posting the pics. I'm watching and trying to learn.
> 
> View attachment 365289


My long drill bits are rigid (brand name) from Home Depot.
The rigid drill bits are great.

It’s looking fantastic Peter I love these updates.

Nathan


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## Silvertone

nnieman said:


> My long drill bits are rigid (brand name) from Home Depot.
> The rigid drill bits are great.
> 
> It’s looking fantastic Peter I love these updates.
> 
> Nathan


Thanks Nathan. This is definitely a fun build.

Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

The epoxy is suitably cured now and I mark the head stock with pencil so I do not take any thickness off the holly. Starts off as a big blob.









and then uncover the pearl








I also filed back the edge on the holly veneer to accommodate the nut.

Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

Onto the fret board. It's actually quite smooth off the CNC so I only need a few swipes of working my way through the grits to polish up the board. I use a Stew Mac aluminum sanding beam and a custom made push stick from my jointer in my "Frett Radius Jig". The misspelled jig is in quote because a friend of mine passed away quite a few years ago now. He is actually the person that got me into building. He was a horrible speller and I have a lot of his tools. The misspelled jig is in quotes because I chuckle every time I use it.










I have a clip full of sand paper cut to the correct size for my beam from 40 - 400 grit. This board was pretty smooth already so I started with 100 grit. I mark the top of the board with coloured pencil and stop when all the marks are gone.









Then onto fretting. I got all my fretting tools out and have them ready to hopefully make quick work of that job tomorrow.









Cheers Peter.


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## Milkman

A horrible speller, but maybe he was smart in other ways I think? Looking good. That logo looks amazing!


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## Silvertone

Milkman said:


> A horrible speller, but maybe he was smart in other ways I think? Looking good. That logo looks amazing!


Yes he was. He was a great musician and father as well. I enjoy using his tools as every time I do I remember how generous he was with his time.

Cheers Peter.


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## Milkman

Silvertone said:


> Yes he was. He was a great musician and father as well. I enjoy using his tools as every time I do I remember how generous he was with his time.
> 
> Cheers Peter.


Thanks for that.


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## Silvertone

Frets are done. All pressed in and filed flush.









Also starting to look at neck and body fit. Neck joint looks good so I cut out pup route from tenon.











I'll glue up fret board then fine tune neck details and will shave off long tenon after I glue the neck in.

Quick mock up - 








Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

Fret board glued up this afternoon. I let it set up for a few hours then cleaned up some squeeze out with some chisels.










Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

Cleaned up the glue squeeze out will a file and am happy with the join.


















Installed side dots - I don't use a jig for this just measure first and last dot and line them up with a ruler trying to keep them centered and straight. 









all the holes drill and ready for dots -








trimmed and sanded -









Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

I also sanded the body a little bit and added the 3/16" round over on the body edges. Stopping short of the neck joint so I can blend into the neck.










Cheers Peter.


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## Milkman

Silvertone said:


> I also sanded the body a little bit and added the 3/16" round over on the body edges. Stopping short of the neck joint so I can blend into the neck.
> 
> View attachment 366931
> 
> 
> Cheers Peter.


I assume you are trying to be relatively faithful to the original design. Were that not so, a nice arm carve on the upper side (right arm Strat sort of thing) might be nice or even just a deep chamfer.


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## Silvertone

Milkman said:


> I assume you are trying to be relatively faithful to the original design. Were that not so, a nice arm carve on the upper side (right arm Strat sort of thing) might be nice or even just a deep chamfer.


Yeah - this is meant to be somewhat of a replica to what Gibson may have created as a production model. Arm and belly contours are pretty unique to Fender, I think. I do not think many production Gibson guitars have that. Off the top of my head I can only think of the Firebird that may have a standard belly carve. These bodies are quite thin and the roundover makes them somewhat comfortable IMO. If you are used to a Fender then you may find it sharp. I know my LP with binding sometimes irritates my forearm while playing, so this seems like a dream in comparison. 

Cheers Peter.


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## Milkman

Silvertone said:


> Yeah - this is meant to be somewhat of a replica to what Gibson may have created as a production model. Arm and belly contours are pretty unique to Fender, I think. I do not think many production Gibson guitars have that. Off the top of my head I can only think of the Firebird that may have a standard belly carve. These bodies are quite thin and the roundover makes them somewhat comfortable IMO. If you are used to a Fender then you may find it sharp. I know my LP with binding sometimes irritates my forearm while playing, so this seems like a dream in comparison.
> 
> Cheers Peter.


No I wouldn't presume to out think the men who designed those beautiful old Gibsons.

I do like the arm and belly carves, but I understand what you're striving for.

Frankly, and some may disagree, I think you're putting a lot more care and attention to detail into this than the original would have had.

That's a nice thing to observe.

I appreciate the posts.


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## Silvertone

I sprayed the head stock black yesterday. I will be visiting a friend tonight to help set the neck. I have cut extra inlays with the intent to use as masks for at least two builds now. Then have forgotten to use them and end up having to scrape the pearl logo. This one was pretty simple to scrape as I made a large route and filled with black epoxy. I am going to try making holly veneers with the inlay in place next. That should make it easier to thickness prior to gluing on the head stock.

first srape - 









a few minutes later - 









I'm also working on finessing the neck profile.










Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

I took a quick trip down to see FreddyG, cook up some HHG and talk shop to glue up the neck. I gotta make a few more cauls for neck clamping. I left a bunch of stuff over at another friend's place the day before so just used my long clamping caul. Looks a little funny but worked well.









out of the clamp this morning and it looks great. "It's Alive". 🤟









Cheers Peter.


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## ezcomes

Looking great!!


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## Silvertone

Drilled some test holes for bushings. I find that depending on the wood I am using I can change out the drill bit by 1mm or 1/32" or so. Ideally I want the press in force about the same for each type of wood. I take the offcuts from the body and drill, press, and remove the bushings to find the right size drill bit.









I have a set of metric and imperial bolts and cut off rod just smaller than than the threaded hole in the bushing. Then I can press in the bushing and wind the threaded bolt in to pull the bushing. Taking it out gives me a good idea regarding the hole size as well.










I also test the tailpiece for center to center on the posts. I can then be confident it will fit perfectly on the body.









I drill with some tape as a depth stop on my brad point bit and then wind the bolts into the bushings and turn a drill bit upside down to press them in. I use a carpet on my drill press table. One thing to remember is to drill and place ground wire in the bushing hole before pressing in the bushing. Although it's not a big deal to take the bushing out, I do not like to take them out unless necessary.










Test fit tailpiece and bridge. So far, so good.

Regards Peter.


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## Silvertone

On to finish sanding now prior to pore filling. My wife just bought me a new dust extractor for my sander recently. Nice to not have dust all over the place.









back










Here's a shot you can really see the wide angle Iphone camera. I think it looks cool even though it's very skewed.









Cheers Peter.


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## mhammer

It looks to me like the spacing between bridge and tailpiece is a little longer than what one typically sees on many Gibsons. Is that an illusion on my part, deliberate on your part, or simply what the original used?


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## Milkman

Looking good.

Gold bridge and tailpiece, so gold covered buckers?


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## Silvertone

mhammer said:


> It looks to me like the spacing between bridge and tailpiece is a little longer than what one typically sees on many Gibsons. Is that an illusion on my part, deliberate on your part, or simply what the original used?


The bridge hasn't been set yet so it may be placed a little closer to the pup route making the distance to tailpiece seem longer? The Iphone stretches out the image as well. It is based on an 82 re-issue that Ron Wood owns. The guy that wrote the book on the Moderne. It's funny you mention that because I thought it looked a little far out as well. I actually moved it back about 25/1000" while I was marking the holes. Not sure that really made much difference. 😕 It is a little farther than a 59 Les Paul.










Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

Milkman said:


> Looking good.
> 
> Gold bridge and tailpiece, so gold covered buckers?


Yes, going with very light relic on this stuff. This guitar is getting Throbak SLE 101s. 










It's basically getting 58 Explorer parts. I might make a different truss rod cover but I think the production version of the Moderne probably would've been outfitted like an Explorer. The 80's re-issues had a different shaped truss rod cover.









This re-issue has the different truss rod cover and the Klusons were replaced with Grovers at some point.

Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

Quick trip down the road to hang out with FreddyG for the afternoon. Got some invaluable finish sanding tips. Thanks Freddy. Also sprayed some sealer coats of nitro pre-pore filler. Nice to see the wood under finish for the first time. Turns out the quarter sawn one piece mahogany neck has some figure in it. Gotta like that.

Pictures are a bit washed out but the spray booth lighting and my Iphone aren't great for photos but awesome for spraying finish.





















Cheers Peter.


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## ezcomes

Nice!


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## Silvertone

Pore filling the korina and mahogany.


















The Korina pore filler is a bit of a PITA. It seems to try much quicker so have to do small spots at a time and make sure to wipe off the excess. The mahogany pore filler on the other hand is a joy in comparison. Although the neck is easier to pore fill as there isn't much flat surface and it's an easy wipe on, wipe off application.

Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

Back into the booth - different booth for vintage amber and clear coats. Starting to look pretty cool.









some level sanding - nice product placement shot. :naughty: 










and some block sanding










So I had a chat with my wife about getting another freezer and decided to go with this fridge /freezer combo.









You may be asking yourself why a picture of a fridge in this thread. Here's why.










Let the finish checking begin. :thumbs:

Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

In and out of the freezer a few times and voila - finish checking





































Cheers Peter.


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## ezcomes

very cool!


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## FlyingFred

What brand/type of lacquer do you use to get this type of checking?


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## Silvertone

FlyingFred said:


> What brand/type of lacquer do you use to get this type of checking?


My friend purchased from the US. You have to get the stuff without plasticizers, for obvious reasons. I'm putting a spray booth in my new addition. I will be testing a lot of different types of lacquers soon. This stuff is nice because you can spray one day, level sand the next, and then put in the freezer that evening. I'm really looking forward to be doing this all at my place.

Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

OK lot's done on this build the other day. Took a trip down to NOTL, Niagara on the Lake, to hang out with my friend Freddy Gabrsek. Freddy is a wizard with setups, and anything Luthier related. We did all the fret work, as well as cut the nut and installed bridge, intonated, and adjusted action. Basically what took Freddy a solid morning would've taken me about a week. We also did all the wiring. Here is a pic of Freddy by the pool with the guitar in question.









Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

Worked on finishing this up this weekend. Cut a control cover and pickguard. I printed a drawing of the pickguard first to make sure everything lined up.









then cut an MDF template -


















stuck the pickguard material to the template and flush trimmed to shape










Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

I put my chamfer bit in my router table and cut the chamfer on the edges of the pickguard.










countersunk the holes on the drill press -










and pre-drilled and affixed the pickguard.










Just a few little things to address now and this will be wrapped up.










Cheers Peter.


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## ezcomes

That. Looks. Spectacular!


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## Hendo

That’s unreal!! Killer


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## SWLABR

I gotta say, I had seen these guitars before and I was not a fan. A guy on a defunct forum had one and it kinda made me cringe. But watching your progress on this build, and seeing it come together, is just amazing. I have a new appreciation of these guitars.


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## Silvertone

SWLABR said:


> I gotta say, I had seen these guitars before and I was not a fan. A guy on a defunct forum had one and it kinda made me cringe. But watching your progress on this build, and seeing it come together, is just amazing. I have a new appreciation of these guitars.


Thanks - I also have a new appreciation for these guitars.  They are a PITA to build. LOL. Good thing I do this as a hobby. I cringe when I think of the hours I have spent on this. I seem to only build one of each model which is not very good use of the CNC machine but it is more fun to always be working on something different.

Cheers Peter.


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## djmarcelca

I bought one of the re-issue Epiphone Modernes. 
Solid guitar. 

yours is a mite prettier.


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## Twisted Metal

Silvertone said:


> In and out of the freezer a few times and voila - finish checking
> 
> View attachment 370140
> 
> 
> View attachment 370141
> 
> 
> View attachment 370142
> 
> 
> View attachment 370143
> 
> 
> Cheers Peter.


That is a pretty cool idea.....looks great!


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## Silvertone

Dropped in on Tom Bartlett the other day and he gave the Moderne a run through.









Finally got the string guides in yesterday. Seems like a long wait when it's the last thing you need. I adjusted the pup rings slightly, filed the bridge slots, and installed the string guides. I'll take some glamour shots in the next few days.



















Cheers Peter.


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## Shawn B.

What a great project and a wonderful result. I envy your skills! Thanks for sharing the process!


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## ezcomes

Thats pretty cool! Congrats!


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## Silvertone

Good morning, for me, anyway. I'm trying to gauge interest in Moderne bodies, or possibly bodies and necks. I have a contact for clear Korina planks that would be wide enough for Modernes. If I get a few people interested then I'll buy a few planks which should reduce the cost. PM me if you are interested.









Thanks.

Cheers Peter.


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## Silvertone

Picked up a bunch of Korina the other day. These planks are wide enough for one piece moderne bodies. It's rare to find such wide pieces. So when you do, you have to snap them up. 🤘 










Ended up getting 6 planks this size. Should be able to get 20 - 24 bodies out of this wood. That should keep me busy for a while.

Cheers Peter.


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## DavidP

I vote for the V headstock, primarily for string pull reasons more than aesthetics. The 6-inline would be second choice for similar reasons.
Years ago I played a clone by Logical Guitars -- decent build but with that Gumby-style headstock. Constant tuning issues given that nut-to-tuner string angle!


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## Silvertone

DavidP said:


> I vote for the V headstock, primarily for string pull reasons more than aesthetics. The 6-inline would be second choice for similar reasons.
> Years ago I played a clone by Logical Guitars -- decent build but with that Gumby-style headstock. Constant tuning issues given that nut-to-tuner string angle!


Well I do have enough for about 20 - 24 bodies out of those boards, so I should be able to get to most combinations. ;-)

Cheers Peter.


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## Mark Brown

Silvertone said:


> Well I do have enough for about 20 - 24 bodies out of those boards, so I should be able to get to most combinations. ;-)
> 
> Cheers Peter.


What are you paying a board foot for such wide lengths? That is awesome that you found them. Given that template they are perfect!!


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## Silvertone

Mark Brown said:


> What are you paying a board foot for such wide lengths? That is awesome that you found them. Given that template they are perfect!!


Whatever the guy wants! LOL it's not far off but these were pretty reasonable in comparison to some Explorer sized blanks I bought last year. Probably works to around US$30 b.f. including shipping to my door. Very similar to Honduran Mahogany actually for really wide stuff. I paid over US$40 b.f. for a few Explorer sized blanks last year.


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## Mark Brown

Yeah that's about right. Its not even close to cheap but it isnt getting easier to find. Thank you for an honest answer. That actually sounds really reasonable if you include shipping as you say. Either way, excellent find and best of luck with anything you make with it.


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## SWLABR

When you built the original, you almost had to go with the Gumby headstock. From a historical point of view, I did agree. I remember though, it did not get my vote in the poll you posted!! Ha, ha… 
If I recall, you came up with some creative way to aid in tuning stability. 
But I’d still probably prefer an Explorer headstock.


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## Silvertone

Mark Brown said:


> Yeah that's about right. Its not even close to cheap but it isnt getting easier to find. Thank you for an honest answer. That actually sounds really reasonable if you include shipping as you say. Either way, excellent find and best of luck with anything you make with it.


It's really not that bad if you consider the final price of a custom built guitar. So if the body blank cost me US$170 or so, and I can put in an $800 set of PUPs and then count all the other components. It's not a huge percentage of the overall cost. I can get Korina for half that cost, or less, but would have to be two piece. So I am saving maybe $100 and have to joint and join two pieces or wood. 

Cheers Peter.


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## ToneHound

Killer looking axe! Nice details and pictures on the build.


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