# NGD - LADO GAS Attack



## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

I went to Lindsay today with a cousin that wants to go to the Lado Luthier School this autumn. We met with Joe Kovacic (Mr Lado) and he is quite a character. He gave us a tour of the shop and told us what he teaches. My cousin wants to go and now needs to find funding. Unfortunately the school is not an accredited college and so getting government funding might be difficult... but that is another story.

Walking around the shop Joe showed us the amazing wood he has in inventory and then showed us guitars that he has in inventory and on sale. He showed me a few and one that caught my eye was the TL-85. Joe plugged it into the amp he had in the shop and the sound was amazing! Warm and full. I told him I had to have it. We worked out a deal and I rushed off to the bank to get some cash!

Even though I am a noob I must say that the guitar is absolutely freekin amazing!

Get details here
http://www.lado-guitars.com/catalogue.htm

Click on TL-85. Below is my guitar

#32 in a limited run of 200!

Top Plate = Brasilian Rosewood 
Body = Mahagony

For a semi-hollow body it has quite a nice weight to it!


























Now I need to sell the previous guitar I was excited about - the Caparelli S2.


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

Just look at the maple on the three piece neck - just amazing!
Made in Canada!


















Joe even signed the inside of the electrics cover. 
What was really cool was that Joe puts a copper foil shield inside the electrics compartment!


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Wonderful guitars. Here is my TL-80 which is very similar to yours. No semi hollow.


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## Jimi D (Oct 27, 2008)

Beautiful wood, beautiful guitar... Congratulations! kksjur


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Wonderful guitars. Here is my TL-80 which is very similar to yours. No semi hollow.


What do you think the difference in sound is between the TL-80 and the TL-85?
Solid vs Semi-Hollow?

The Lado pickups are sooooo nice!
If I recall - Joe said the pups are made for him in Germany.

It is a real shame that Joe is "semi-retiring". 
He is a real craftsman!

Is there anyone else in Canada in the same caliber as Joe?


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## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

I went to college in Lindsay. Wish I would have known about that place. Nice guit!


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## cdub66 (Dec 13, 2007)

kksjur that's very nice!


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

If Joe semi-retires what will that mean to the collectibility of his guitars?
(Making one or two per month)

Does Lado have enough brand recognition to be worth anything in 20 years?

If the answer is yes then people should go to Lindsay and buy what Joe has left in inventory.

On another note - Joe is selling the company.
Maybe GuitarsCanada could form a partnership and buy Lado!

FYI - 30-45% off all Guitars SALE!! ... click here
http://www.lado-guitars.com/saleFeb_2009.pdf


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Damn that's nice! and a sale? my bank account cant afford a sale  lol


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

deleted .


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Gorgeous wood on that guitar, as well as the other Lados posted.

That's one thing about Lado--you'll quite often find gorgeous wood used them.

I knew guy who had a Lado Flying V copy years ago--beautiful zebrawood on it, but it was heavy--the body was larger than a Gibson Flying V, and the angle of the wings was a bit more than on a Gibson as well--but it was a beautiful guitar to look at, and it played quite nicely, and sounded great.


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

After seeing these beauties, I miss my Lado.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Joe also does a nice job in the low end department. Here's a pic of my gigging bass for the past 12 years, a Studio 604 with Bartolini PUs.


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

Congrats on the Lado tele... man these are nice guitars. I really like that Natureal Elite.


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## aC2rs (Jul 9, 2007)

Congrats on the TL-85 - absolutely gorgeous guitar!



z0z0 said:


> The Lado pickups are sooooo nice!
> If I recall - Joe said the pups are made for him in Germany.


Yes, Joe has his pickups made by Shadow.


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

Here is an interesting piece of trivia

The German company Shadow that custom winds pick-ups for Joe Kovacic /Lado is run by a Croatian guy named Joe Marinic/Shadow.

Joe Kovacic and Joe Marinic knew one another in Zagreb in their younger days.

So Croatians have something to be proud of!

One Croatian guy making the wood and another Croatian making the pick-ups.

By the way - I am Croatian so feel pretty good about this.
(I wish I knew this earlier - ha ha ha)


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

KHINGPYNN said:


> Congrats on the Lado tele... man these are nice guitars. I really like that Natureal Elite.


+1

Very nicely done!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

the blue Elite has my eye *sigh*


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

z0z0 said:


> What do you think the difference in sound is between the TL-80 and the TL-85?
> Solid vs Semi-Hollow


Not sure, maybe we need to get them together and find out.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Lados are beautiful guitars. I had a Super Falcon at one time in the 80s and it was fantastic.


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

You aren't too far away. I could come down with my guitar and my little Gibson GA-5 Les Paul Junior Amp. Do you have a way to record the two guitars so we can post and compare?

Here is another idea - for anyone that lives in the GTA specifically in Etobicoke - ever go to the Canadian Tire at Queensway & 427 (east of 427) and a few times a week they have about a hundred people show up with vintage cars with hoods up and everyone goes oooohhh ahhhhh. Well what we could do is have something similar and we get GTA guitar players together to test out and compare equipment and then the participants could take notes and post their reviews.... similar to Harmony-Central but with more reviews.

This would really kick arse!

Run a few of these and I bet the manufacturers would get involved and bring equipment they want people to test.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

Hey z0z0 - that's a really cool idea, actually. I'd be into that. Not that I have a whole lot of vintage guitars but I do have one or two interesting specimens that I'd love to be able to 'share.' It would be neat to see some of the hidden treasures lurking in this one metropolis.


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

Maxer - thanks for the support on the idea.
I think I will start a new thread dedicated to this discussion.

Here is the thread
http://www.guitarscanada.com/Board/showthread.php?p=205508


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Now THAT"S a guitar!!!
I hate that he doesnt publish pricing or available stock on his site though. He's alsop not alway around the work shop during regular business hours, so before making the trip to Lindsay, call first, or bring a canoe, a fishing pole and some beer so you'll have something to do if he isnt there. Dont forget, folks, Joe is also great at servicing non-Lado products i.e. re-fretting, setups, mods, etc. I've taken my Gibsons to him before.

FWIW, Joe has been talking about selling the company for years now.

I thought about buying it seriously a couple years ago, but not sure the name has the cachet it once did, nor the distribution connections. And as I'm more of a business guy than a wood worker, I dont know if I could make a go of it if I wasnt pitching in the shop. I'd be the first person I'd have to lay off . Joe IS Lado. Without him actually having a hand in building the guitars (yes, a lot of what he sells are made by his students), I dont know if people would continue to buy Lado's.
Plus, anyone who took it over would want to have Joe nearby (last I heard he still wants to focus on teaching), and moving to Lindsay isnt in the cards for us.


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

Yeah Joe told me about his plans for selling the company. He says that he would give the following:

1. Six months free education
2. Six months free rent of the shop
3. All the wood (except one really expensive piece from Brazil)
4. Give you his connections for supplies
5. Help out on and off for a few years
6. Publically give you his blessing

I am also a business guy and think this would be a very interesting experience. Lindsay is a ways away - you could have staff making guitars up there while the "Head Office" is in the GTA

As for the cachet of the name - I agree that it has dropped but with Joe still around you could leverage him for building the name again. Lado is about workmanship and dedication to quality and that can be passed on to the right type of people. Once the new people get into the right groove then Lado could be as good as ever!

Maybe we could get some guitar lovers to invest? Get four people putting in $50k each and away we go!


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

z0z0 said:


> Yeah Joe told me about his plans for selling the company. He says that he would give the following:
> 
> 1. Six months free education
> 2. Six months free rent of the shop
> ...



I have talked to Joe about this myself. I didn't come out and ask him what he's asking. You say $50k times 4 ($200k), and I'm wondering where you get that figure from. I had assumed he would be asking a lot more that that, but as I say, I didn't ask him. Even my wife was very enthusiastic about the idea, but unfortunately we don't have sufficient funds.


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

Joe gave me some round about numbers. He has been selling for a while but noone is buying and that is a shame. I was impressed at the after sale support that he was offering. Offering the free training in making guitars and especially "getting you connected" is very valuable.

One thing that scares me is that the DOS guys were up there the day I bought my guitar.


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

z0z0 said:


> Joe gave me some round about numbers. He has been selling for a while but noone is buying and that is a shame. I was impressed at the after sale support that he was offering. Offering the free training in making guitars and especially "getting you connected" is very valuable.
> 
> One thing that scares me is that the DOS guys were up there the day I bought my guitar.


DOS = Dept. of Safety? Wonder what that's all about. Maybe just a routine inspection? 

I really hope someone does buy, and the name doesn't disappear.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I Huff Paint said:


> DOS = Dept. of Safety? Wonder what that's all about. Maybe just a routine inspection?
> 
> I really hope someone does buy, and the name doesn't disappear.


Lol....D.O.S. Dot on shaft...the guys that import the Fonzarelli guitars.

I actually think 200k would be a lot for what you are getting in todays market. Pretty much just a 6 month luthier course (whats that worth, $15k?), a pretty much forgotten name, and some wood and power tools.
I luv Lado's guitars and he had a great run in the 80's...probably could have sold out for over $1M back then (which was worth even more back then). But that time has passed. 
If you were already a good luthier or had serious desire to be one, it could be looked at as buying a 60k/yr job for yourself for $200k. Without some serious cash to invest in mass marketing, developing a retail channel, and most likely some offshore production, I cant see it being more than a cottage industry. That said, for someone who has a few bucks in the bank, enjoys working with their hands, can see themself escaping the rat race, and maybe buying a place to live on a lake in the Kawarthas while building some guitars, that could be a nice lifestyle.


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

Diablo said:


> Lol....D.O.S. Dot on shaft...the guys that import the Fonzarelli guitars.
> 
> I actually think 200k would be a lot for what you are getting in todays market. Pretty much just a 6 month luthier course (whats that worth, $15k?), a pretty much forgotten name, and some wood and power tools.
> I luv Lado's guitars and he had a great run in the 80's...probably could have sold out for over $1M back then (which was worth even more back then). But that time has passed.
> If you were already a good luthier or had serious desire to be one, it could be looked at as buying a 60k/yr job for yourself for $200k. Without some serious cash to invest in mass marketing, developing a retail channel, and most likely some offshore production, I cant see it being more than a cottage industry. That said, for someone who has a few bucks in the bank, enjoys working with their hands, can see themself escaping the rat race, and maybe buying a place to live on a lake in the Kawarthas while building some guitars, that could be a nice lifestyle.


I see. I haven't visited the shop in Lindsay. I guess I had assumed there was some pretty high end shop equipment there. No offense to Joe, but I think that Lado guitars could have been really big, but he never had proper marketing, advertising, endorsements, no exposure, or really anything to boost the reputation or sales of his guitars. Even the Lado website is pretty lame by today's standards. There aren't even any good pictures of the guitars. Maybe he never wanted to become really big. It's kinda sad.


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

About the Lado Brand getting big - I don't know how much I can say but Joe had an unfortunate medical issue which prevented him from working for about 7 years back in the 90s. That is where the brand went down in recognition.

This was one of the issues which forced him to move to Lindsay.

Joe does not appear to have ever wanted to be "super big" but he wanted to make great guitars - more like a boutique operation. Joe did not need "marketing" because his guitars sold themselves. The people that were "in the know" and could afford his work bought from Joe. I think he said that at one point in time he had a one year back-order.

Yes the website is rather bad... and Joe knows it too but he will not do anything until later this year when he gets into his specialty niche of making "to order" guitars which most of us here will not be able to afford.


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

Diablo said:


> Lol....D.O.S. Dot on shaft...the guys that import the Fonzarelli guitars.
> 
> I actually think 200k would be a lot for what you are getting in todays market. Pretty much just a 6 month luthier course (whats that worth, $15k?), a pretty much forgotten name, and some wood and power tools.
> I luv Lado's guitars and he had a great run in the 80's...probably could have sold out for over $1M back then (which was worth even more back then). But that time has passed.


Well here is the way I break it down:

1. $70k of wood and accessories. You know Joe has great pieces of wood.
2. $40 to $50k of equipment including CNC machine
3. $10k for 6 months free rent
4. $15k for luthier education

The easily estimated stuff = $145k

Next is the hard stuff to estimate on value. Joe helping you for a few years and Joe getting you connected with the right suppliers around the world. Remember that Joe will pass on decades of experience on who to deal with if you want the best stuff. Also as we can see on the board here - Joe and the Lado Brand still have a great reputation. Lado brand is probably worth a lot more than the potential z0z0 brand (ha ha ha). Is that worth $55k?

I think if two or three luthiers plus a business guy got together to pool resources this would probably be a good venture. If only I had the money.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I havent seen Joe's wood (no pun intended), so couldnt put a price on it. $70k will buy you a lot of wood though.
As to the other machinery, the value of 2nd hand manufacturing equipment is rapidly depreciating, much like restaurant equipment due to dwindling manufacturing segment in Ontario. So whatever stuff originally costed may only be worth 25% of that now.



> Next is the hard stuff to estimate on value. Joe helping you for a few years and Joe getting you connected with the right suppliers around the world. Remember that Joe will pass on decades of experience on who to deal with if you want the best stuff.


Ya, its this intangible stuff I have a hard time putting a price on. It all sounds nice, but you have to bank on the downside not just the upside. What if joe had a heartattack the day after selling it to you? Or just suddenly became too busy to help out much, or had a difference of opinion with the direction the business was going in (or just plum found all the handholding of a noob owner to be too annoying?)? Could you make a go of it and be MORE successful than Joe was (I say more, b/c obviously status quo isnt reaping in the millions).
Word gets out fast.It might not take long for the market to think the Lado brand is now the z0z0 brand, and value tis products accordingly.
Not trying to talk anyone out of it, but I personally have a hard time putting value on things that I cant get into my hot little hands or arent easily quantifiable.

On the other hand, one of the ings that made it sort of interesting to me, is my father in law is already a retired meticulous wood worker. So I envisioned having him do a fair amount of production from his workshop in Owen Sound, hiring a former student of Joes to work in Lindsay, and I take care of the business end. But as it seems with all people over 50, I dont think I can count on my father in law to stay healthy, and would be relying on him too much to go it alone.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

z0z0 said:


> About the Lado Brand getting big - I don't know how much I can say but Joe had an unfortunate medical issue which prevented him from working for about 7 years back in the 90s. That is where the brand went down in recognition.
> 
> This was one of the issues which forced him to move to Lindsay.
> 
> ...


"super big' like this?







kkjwpw
Just having fun....
None of us get to choose when to have health issues, but I'd say his timing was ideal. Right when the guitar god movement died by grunge, and guitar manufacturers felt the pinch.

In terms of a move towards a specialty niche, He gets these ideas from time to time. I already think he does serve the "specialty" niche. Certainly isnt mainstream/mass market/retail. A year or 2 ago, he wanted to go the other way with a line of "ebay guitars", that would be more aggressively priced and more mainstream. Never happened. I think although he may not admit it, he's probably pretty happy right where things are now, although he probably misses the heyday of the 80's...but they're gone for good.


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## Stonesy (Oct 7, 2008)

If you go up to Linsay to visit Joe be careful of what you touch. Joe's shop was broken into so he had the hydro hooked up to zap em if it happens again. This August is his last teaching session and only one spot is open. I am looking foreward to learning from a true master luthier. Maybe my retirement fund would be better spent on a slice of a company like this instead of being squandered by financial weasels. Also, lots of people have commented positively about Lado electrics. They are nice now, but back in the 70's and 80's when there was so much garbage being made they really stood out, but his accoustics are on another planet. Just incredable!


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## breakfast (Jun 16, 2009)

Wow, these guitars are beautiful. I've never seen or heard of any of these over here in Alberta. I'll have to take a deeper look.


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## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

Joe owns the building. Rent is a reasonable amount - less than $2,000 per month.

The Earth model was his signature - the boys from Maiden used to use them back in the 80s










It is really nice to see that Joe is held in such high regards.
I wish I knew about him before I bought the DOS Craparelli.


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## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

z0z0 said:


> I wish I knew about him before I bought the DOS Craparelli.


Probably not the wisest choice of words when you are selling said guitar on the emporium :smile:


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

No bites yet so I doubt I will sell it here.
Actually not a bad guitar just not as good as my Lado.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

z0z0 said:


> No bites yet so I doubt I will sell it here.
> Actually not a bad guitar just not as good as my Lado.


:sport-smiley-002: Ooohhh its so tempting to say I told you so (importance of consideration of re-sale value in a guitar), but I dont want to re-hash that event again kkjwpw

At any rate, I sincerely wish you luck in your sale. Theres a buyer for everything IMO. Have you watched ebay for DOS sales/values?
If I can make a suggestion, I noticed you tend to put in the links to your newer purchase in your sale ads. I wouldnt, it sends a mixed message about what you are selling.


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

Diablo... thanks for your advice.

Let me say this - I liked the DOS S2 that I bought and quite honestly I still do. What has happened is that now that I have the Lado I realize what the weaknesses of the DOS guitar are.

After playing with the S2 I would put it somewhere in between a Gibson and Epiphone for quality - maybe 60% Epiphone and 40% Gibson. It can use a few upgrades - but then which guitar can't.

So once again - I was happy with the DOS until I got a Lado - but who has not been there?


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

I don't think I've posted this yet, so I figure you guys might be interested. This first pic is of my Lado Lazer. It's a very similar design to the Earth, but features some extreme contouring that makes it far more comfortable to play, and IMO, much more interesting to look at. This particular one was built for John Albani, and appears in the Lee Aaron video "Sex With Love".










These next pics are of a guitar I'm currently building that is based on the Lazer. The shape is almost identical, but there are some minor changes. The Lazer is solid maple throughout, whereas this one is mahogany with a 1/2" maple cap, and a set-neck instead of neck-thru. The neck is actually from a Washburn HM-20V. The body was badly beaten up, so I salvaged the neck quite a few years ago. I decided to put it to good use for this project.


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

Here's some more progress pics.


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

Here's a couple of pics of the back of the Lado showing the incredible work that went into the contouring and neckjoint. The third pic shows both the original and my replica, and how I had to make a compromise with the neck joint.


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## aC2rs (Jul 9, 2007)

Paint, your home build is coming along very nicely! 

Have you decided on a colour, hardware and electronics for it?


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

aC2rs said:


> Paint, your home build is coming along very nicely!
> 
> Have you decided on a colour, hardware and electronics for it?


For the finish, I'm going with a trans-blue/black, or maybe a burst of some kind similar to the original, but using different colours. I'll be using aniline dyes for the colour, and poly for the clear. 

Hardware will be black, with Schaller mini tuners, and a TOM/string-thru bridge. I'll most likely go with a Duncan Custom SH-5 pickup, and just a volume control. I'm still undecided if I want to route for a neck pickup. If I do, it will be a Duncan '59, and I'll add a 3-way toggle for switching. 

I'll probably route the electronics cavity tomorrow.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

Very nice work! An unusual shape for the body but I do dig it... if it were mine I'd be looking at giving it a natural finish as I think it looks gorgeous right now... such clean lines. Fantastic progress there.

That green demon's pretty amazing, too. What fantastic curves, especially around the neck part... really beautiful sculpted look.


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## Eager Beaver (May 31, 2009)

Paint it purpleburst!


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

wow, thats some impressive DIY job!
Put an EVH stripe job on it. It'd be fun to get a letter from the legends lawyers 

a friend of mine once started a production company, mostly as a hobby with a name similar to Zomba Music (Def Leppard, etc). Wasnt long before he got a cease and desist letter from their lawyers. He framed it proudly. :smilie_flagge17:


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

Beautiful work on the neck join!


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

I've decided to edit this post for now. I need to cool down first, and post when I'm not quite so pissed off.


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## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

edited mine too


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

Scottone said:


> edited mine too


Thanks man. I might repost mine later. I sent an email to Joe expressing my disappointment at his attitude. We'll have to wait and see what his response will be, if any.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Damn...looks like I missed out on some drama in this threadkqoct


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## Stonesy (Oct 7, 2008)

Was it Joe form Lado?


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

Stonesy said:


> Was it Joe form Lado?


Yes. 


Deleted...again.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I Huff Paint said:


> Yes.
> 
> Long story short. Joe asked me to contact him. I called and left a message. He called back, and spoke to my wife, and immediately started throwing out threats of legal action. This from a guy who has copied other people's designs for decades. He doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. As far as I'm concerned, he's a total piece of shit.



Threats of litigation? To your wife?



nice


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Why would he care? He supposedly retiring (again). kqoct

In fairness, i dont think Lado was anywhere near as bad as most smaller companies when it came to copying designs. So many others have been far worse (Ibanez, PRS, Charvel). Overall I'd say Joe's designs were more creative than most.

Silly behaviour though.


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

Well, I thought I wasn't going to get a reply from Joe, but I did receive an email from him today, and he graciously apologized for jumping to conclusions and upsetting my wife and I. Thus, I edited my previous post, and would appreciate if the two guys above would edit their's too. Thanks in advance.


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

I have been gone for a few days and after reading this thread I feel like I have to come to Joe's defense.

Total piece of shit? Far from it. He is the type of person that would go above and beyond the call of duty for people that he respects.
If anyone knows Joe - imagine Joe as Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino - a bit too blunt at times but a man with a great heart.

According to patent and trademark law you will know that you need to protect your intellectual capital at all times. Joe did not know who you are - whether a private individual or a company. I am fairly certain that almost everyone here would have done the same thing to protect themselves (but with a bit ore tact)

As for "copies" can you show me which of Joe's guitars are direct copies? It is kind of hard to not be in a certain "style". So you can have a Strat style or LP style - but from what I have seen of Joe's inventory none of his guitars are direct copies of anyone else's guitars. 

On the other hand when someone posts a pic of the original guitar and their direct copy that is another thing.

... but we should ALL remember that we jump to conclusions ... right huffer?
some people do over-react in their emails ... which I happened to see today.


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

z0z0 said:


> I have been gone for a few days and after reading this thread I feel like I have to come to Joe's defense.
> 
> Total piece of shit? Far from it. He is the type of person that would go above and beyond the call of duty for people that he respects.
> If anyone knows Joe - imagine Joe as Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino - a bit too blunt at times but a man with a great heart.
> ...



Someone had a Lado copy of an RR for sale in the classifieds here. Yes, it was a direct copy. Plus, I've seen what I consider EXACT copies of Jackson Soloists (minus the logo of course). It's pretty silly to argue that he doesn't. He has done strats and teles for years. You can argue that they aren't EXACTLY the same, but then my "Lazer" isn't EXACTLY the same either. Anyhow, regardless of all that, what Joe did was out of line no matter which way you look at it, but like I said, he apologized, and that's good enough for me. As far as I'm concerned, the matter is dropped. 

BTW, I also didn't appreciate being asked to contact him under false pretenses. Was that his idea, or yours?


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

z0z0 said:


> I have been gone for a few days and after reading this thread I feel like I have to come to Joe's defense.
> 
> Total piece of shit? Far from it. He is the type of person that would go above and beyond the call of duty for people that he respects.
> If anyone knows Joe - imagine Joe as Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino - a bit too blunt at times but a man with a great heart.


By your own admission you have met Joe Lado once for a tour of his shop and purchased a guitar from him. With all due respect that does not constitute "knowing" him nor being able to tell anyone else what kind of person he is. I am sure he was very nice to you as you were telling him to hold on a minute while you ran to the ATM machine to get a $1000 out to give him. He makes nice guitars, I own one. But I would not assume to know what he is like as a person. I seem to remember you telling us that Mike from DOS was the greatest guy in the world and then promptly calling his signature guitar a "Craparelli" after you purchased the Lado.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*Lado*

Looks like this thread started out on a high note and then took a dive-bomb..

Let me start by saying , I don't own a Lado and never played one, but by the reputation they have, i think Joe makes a great guitar. The woods he uses seems to be top notch.

The mahogany on your guitar is awesome.. i wonder if he used honduras or african Mahogany.
I really nice guitar, would Love to try one out.. Congrads on your new purchase.

As far as Buying the company, from some experience in woodworking, This industry is a tough one to be in.

I worked for a furniture plant ( The oldest in Canada EST 1835) and its closing.
For many reason's the owners decided to close the doors.

This was a well established plant with nothing owing on the building or machinery. I can't imagine buying a woodworking company in these times.
Can you imagine how many guitars you would have to sell just to pay the property tax.

If i was going to start building guitars , i would set up shop at home, and do it that way, and just build a name for yourself over time.
If you make good guitar's your business will slowly grow over time.

Starting a business this way of course, you would need another source of income.

Rick


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

Rick31797 said:


> Looks like this thread started out on a high note and then took a dive-bomb..
> 
> Let me start by saying , I don't own a Lado and never played one, but by the reputation they have, i think Joe makes a great guitar. The woods he uses seems to be top notch.
> 
> ...


Joe does indeed build fantastic guitars, and to be honest, there is no issue here other than the fact that IMO he reacted in an inappropriate manner to something that should have been taken as a compliment. All of us can be guilty of jumping to conclusions, and when you're the owner of a business with a reputation to uphold, you need to perhaps be a little more cautious about jumping in with all guns lazing and offending people who might be past customers, future customers, or both. Joe apologized to me, and admitted that he had overreacted. That's it. Can we get past this and move on? \

Here's a pic of my FV-200 serial number 001. 

Joe seems to be a big fan of Schaller hardware, which is very cool, because I am too. Schaller stuff just seems better quality than pretty much anything else out there. The V has Schaller tuners, and the Schaller one piece bridge with brass saddles.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I Huff Paint said:


> Someone had a Lado copy of an RR for sale in the classifieds here. Yes, it was a direct copy. Plus, I've seen what I consider EXACT copies of Jackson Soloists (minus the logo of course). It's pretty silly to argue that he doesn't. He has done strats and teles for years. You can argue that they aren't EXACTLY the same, but then my "Lazer" isn't EXACTLY the same either. Anyhow, regardless of all that, what Joe did was out of line no matter which way you look at it, but like I said, he apologized, and that's good enough for me. As far as I'm concerned, the matter is dropped.
> 
> BTW, I also didn't appreciate being asked to contact him under false pretenses. Was that his idea, or yours?


Thats a really good point. I know the headstocks in the 80's on the superstrats were identical to those used by jackson/charvel (which IIRC Gibson tried unsuccessfuly to sue for claiming too much similarity to the Explorers-bit of a stretch IMO).

When it comes down to it, there's only so much room for innovation in guitar shapes I suppose, while staying tasteful. I'd go as far as to say by 1985 every major shape had been designed (I'd even go as far as 1970, but I wanted to include some pointier shapes). Everything else is just a tweak.

Everyone borrows from the originators. its laughable now for one of the followers to cry copycat.


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## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

Yep, there is a totally original Joe Lado design :smile: Cool guitar BTW.



I Huff Paint said:


> Joe does indeed build fantastic guitars, and to be honest, there is no issue here other than the fact that IMO he reacted in an inappropriate manner to something that should have been taken as a compliment. All of us can be guilty of jumping to conclusions, and when you're the owner of a business with a reputation to uphold, you need to perhaps be a little more cautious about jumping in with all guns lazing and offending people who might be past customers, future customers, or both. Joe apologized to me, and admitted that he had overreacted. That's it. Can we get past this and move on? \
> 
> Here's a pic of my FV-200 serial number 001.
> 
> Joe seems to be a big fan of Schaller hardware, which is very cool, because I am too. Schaller stuff just seems better quality than pretty much anything else out there. The V has Schaller tuners, and the Schaller one piece bridge with brass saddles.


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

I Huff Paint said:


> BTW, I also didn't appreciate being asked to contact him under false pretenses. Was that his idea, or yours?


Being rather negative - making the wrong assumptions. Joe asked me "who is this guy" I told him "I don't know". Joe asked me to contact you because he wanted to talk to you - which I did. As I told you I did not know what Joe's intentions were.



GuitarsCanada said:


> By your own admission you have met Joe Lado once for a tour of his shop and purchased a guitar from him. With all due respect that does not constitute "knowing" him nor being able to tell anyone else what kind of person he is. I am sure he was very nice to you as you were telling him to hold on a minute while you ran to the ATM machine to get a $1000 out to give him. He makes nice guitars, I own one. But I would not assume to know what he is like as a person. I seem to remember you telling us that Mike from DOS was the greatest guy in the world and then promptly calling his signature guitar a "Craparelli" after you purchased the Lado.


Actually over the last few weeks I have met Joe three times because he is doing a custom job for me and so I have spent quite a few hours with me. I want an electric tamburica made (Croatian folk string instrument) I have had coffee and Sljivovica with him. Joe has been cranky with me as well - but that is Joe. I think I know the guy. Would I have more drinks with Joe - yes I would.

As for Mike at DOS - yes I thought that Mike was a good guy. He gave me a good deal on the guitar. Being a noob I thought it was a great guitar - it sure looked nice - don't criticise me for that as I am quite sure all of us here were noobs making the same mistakes. I have learned. I don't think I said he was the greatest guy in the world. Post sale I had some problems and was not happy with the way that I was treated. Due to the problems I had and the service I had my opinion changed. Do I regret giving DOS the review that I did? Yes a bit. Would I buy another DOS now that I know more? No I would not. Once again I regret making these stupid noob mistakes.

One rule that I try to live life by is the following: Everyone makes mistakes in life - so don't judge them by their mistakes - judge them how they fix their mistakes. As you acknowledge Joe contacted you and fixed his mistake.


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

Compare the LADO FV-200 to the Gibson Flying V
There are quite a few differences

Head, bridge, knob positions, output jack to name a few


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

z0z0 said:


> Compare the LADO FV-200 to the Gibson Flying V
> There are quite a few differences
> 
> Head, bridge, knob positions, output jack to name a few


Now you're just being stupid. It's the body shape that's the copy, and you know damn well that's the issue here. Stop trying to cloud it.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

All the Lados I had were great guitars but they were all simply copies of Jacksons, Kramers and Ibanez. To call these designs original is dilusional............


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

z0z0 said:


> Well here is the way I break it down:
> 
> 1. $70k of wood and accessories. You know Joe has great pieces of wood.
> 2. $40 to $50k of equipment including CNC machine
> ...


Surely you never had or ran a buisness. ....your post is basicaly contradictions, on top of each others. 10 000$ for free rent?!!!!.. 70 000$ of wood?, that would mean a INSANLY big ass warehouse, when bought in bulk, wood is pretty cheap, even the high end one. 

No one would be dumb enough to buy a guitar company, and not know HOW to make a guitar to start with. so the 15 000$ for a luthier course is again kinda weird. 

Lado use to make good guitars..now, i could'nt say, but it's not a "big boy's brand". so you're buying basicaly a company that as not moneytary value right now. you will need to invest a minimum of 50 000$ to 100 000$ in marketing and advertisement to get a real company to even compete at the lowest level with other brands.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*lado*

I don't know why you would think 70,000 would get you alot of wood. The woods that Joe is using is very expensive.

Many years ago , atleast 10 yrs, we use to get a trailer load of Honduras Mahogany, and the cost was $40,000 for one Trailer

We kept the wood outside the plant where i worked, and they had One million dollars in wood piled outside. Not that big a area..

So i would not expect to be surrounded by wood , with large warehouses full.

Rick


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Rick31797 said:


> I don't know why you would think 70,000 would get you alot of wood. The woods that Joe is using is very expensive.
> 
> Many years ago , atleast 10 yrs, we use to get a trailer load of Honduras Mahogany, and the cost was $40,000 for one Trailer
> 
> ...


i have a hard time seeing that..a blank cost under 50$..when you buy one..imagine buying in bulk!...and i doubt is place only uses only Mohagany.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

I used Mahogany as an Eg ..as we used the same wood so, i know the cost. Joe's other wood species, would be a higher costs.Curly maple and flame maple, walnut , and other exotic woods would be atleast twice Plus the cost of Mahogany.

Guitar manufacturers prefer Mahogany as for the main part of a guitar, because its Usually light for a hardwood, and its easy to sand and mould.

And of course it looks great, when finished.

Rick


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

z0z0 said:


> Actually over the last few weeks I have met Joe three times because he is doing a custom job for me and so I have spent quite a few hours with me. I want an electric tamburica made (Croatian folk string instrument) I have had coffee and Sljivovica with him. Joe has been cranky with me as well - but that is Joe. I think I know the guy. Would I have more drinks with Joe - yes I would.
> 
> One rule that I try to live life by is the following: Everyone makes mistakes in life - so don't judge them by their mistakes - judge them how they fix their mistakes. As you acknowledge Joe contacted you and fixed his mistake.


Like I said, if you are buying everyone is smiling, and as you say he is cranky even when you are buying so that tells me a few things.

Enjoy the coffee and Sljvonica, whatever that is.


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Like I said, if you are buying everyone is smiling, and as you say he is cranky even when you are buying so that tells me a few things.


Can you tell me what few things this tells you? 

Maybe "cranky" is not the right word - opinionated, stubborn but in a nice way. The man is an artist. You know what artists are like.

I find it odd that you have time for this - but you have not commented either in the thread or via PM about the idea for Guitar Get-Togethers
http://www.guitarscanada.com/Board/showthread.php?t=23917

The guitar get-togethers would be a great concept and would give YOU a lot of visibility - yet you have said nothing even though quite a few people think it is a good idea.

Could I say "so that tells me a few things."?



GuitarsCanada said:


> Enjoy the coffee and Sljvonica, whatever that is.


Sljivovica = Croatian Plum Whiskey = powerful stuff
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sljivovica
(google + wikipedia are your friends)


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## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

z0z0 said:


> Being rather negative - making the wrong assumptions. Joe asked me "who is this guy" I told him "I don't know". Joe asked me to contact you because he wanted to talk to you - which I did. As I told you I did not know what Joe's intentions were.


IMO Joe violated your trust by having you set up Huff for the threatening call. I can't beleive that you're still doing business with him.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*Lado*

I notice that many threads start out on a high note like this great guitar that Zozo bought..
Can you still remember the feeling of getting a brand new guitar?? opening the case up , its darn near as good as Sex.. haha

I actually really injoy when somebody buys a really nice guitar and posts pictures.I look at them more then once and sometimes i will save them, and also go as far as posting it on my desk top.

Why The focus goes from a guy displaying his new guitar to having to defend himself, really makes me wonder why i am here at times.
Maybe there should be more PM's and less posting of the negative comments.

If this was my guitar i wanted to share with people on this forum, i think it would be the last one i would post.

Rick


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

A forum is open to all opinions..if you post a guitar and thing EVERYONE will like it?, then you're outa luck. Guitars are a lot like your taste in womens...noe one has the same. his DOS LP style..i would'nt have paid 300$ for it. TO me that is ONE hugly instrument..yet, for him, it was the holygrail, but after a VERY short time, he's selling it. 

So you have to be able to grab the positive and negative opinions realy



Rick31797 said:


> I notice that many threads start out on a high note like this great guitar that Zozo bought..
> Can you still remember the feeling of getting a brand new guitar?? opening the case up , its darn near as good as Sex.. haha
> 
> I actually really injoy when somebody buys a really nice guitar and posts pictures.I look at them more then once and sometimes i will save them, and also go as far as posting it on my desk top.
> ...


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

z0z0 said:


> Can you tell me what few things this tells you?
> 
> I find it odd that you have time for this - but you have not commented either in the thread or via PM about the idea for Guitar Get-Togethers
> http://www.guitarscanada.com/Board/showthread.php?t=23917
> ...


Wow, someone is high on themself...........


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*Lado*

People are too free to voice negative options... If i see a guitar on here that does not appeal to me " I say nothing"

You know the saying , if you have nothing good to say., then say nothing.

People here would never say the things they say, in person.
Rick


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Rick31797 said:


> I notice that many threads start out on a high note like this great guitar that Zozo bought..
> Can you still remember the feeling of getting a brand new guitar?? opening the case up , its darn near as good as Sex.. haha
> 
> I actually really injoy when somebody buys a really nice guitar and posts pictures.I look at them more then once and sometimes i will save them, and also go as far as posting it on my desk top.
> ...


sometimes people bring things on themself when their passion overcomes their reason, and they start making grandiose statements about things they might not know that much about, that may haunt them later.



> People here would never say the things they say, in person.
> Rick


yes, welcome to the internet.
Thats the good, bad and ugly of it.


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## Hammertone (Feb 3, 2006)

Accept2 said:


> All the Lados I had were great guitars but they were all simply copies of Jacksons, Kramers and Ibanez. To call these designs original is dilusional............


Accept2, you've got to get your hands on a Lado Condor. It's an original design. I think of it as the guitar that Steve "Lips" Kudlow of Anvil should have played. I'll dig up some pix of mine when I get back from the Montreal Guitar Show. 

Some of Joe's other early pre-Floyd efforts were also a lot of fun - the original Falcon and Super Falcon, Zebra, Condor and a few others. 

Maybe the Devil, or is that a copy of something else?


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Rick31797 and Diablo, seriously guys...you complain about the internet, yet you are part of it!...kinda hyporcit on your part ain't it?. 

As for what people say online compared to what they would say in front of a real group of folks...again you're generalisating...trust me when i say there is nothing i say online i would'nt say to your face. 

And finaly, about "people" talking about things they might not know, please, this site as more gear knowledge then anywhere i've seen in a LONG time. If you want to dismiss it, that's your bad. Since i've started to seak the knowledge in this place, even after 25 years of owning and playing, my understanding on a LOT of subjet related to music has increase 5 times. 

Sometimes listening is better mate..


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Hammertone said:


> Accept2, you've got to get your hands on a Lado Condor. It's an original design. I think of it as the guitar that Steve "Lips" Kudlow of Anvil should have played. I'll dig up some pix of mine when I get back from the Montreal Guitar Show.
> 
> Some of Joe's other early pre-Floyd efforts were also a lot of fun - the original Falcon and Super Falcon, Zebra, Condor and a few others.
> 
> Maybe the Devil, or is that a copy of something else?


Those were all great guitars. 30 years ago. Times change, Lado doesnt, it gets left behind. Its unfortunate because they are probobly the best made guitars out there in that price range, but there is way more to buying a guitar than build quality.............


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*Lado*

There is certainly alot of knowledge here, and thats the good part of being here.
Thats why i am here, I am not complaining about the internet in general, but i don't think its right to have a post go from where this started to conflict and attacking a person's character.

I see many posts like that in this forum. I am surprised somebody don't say,to me " if you don't like it leave"
Thats just how Blunt ( rude ) some people are here. And there are people that just like a good internet fight. As i read " Oh i missed a good one"

If people are rude and talk Negative to me in person , then those are the people, i don't want anything to do with.
I don't mind constructive criticism, If i build a guitar i don't mind a person not liking the design and saying so, but if they say, my 6 yr old kid could do better ,then they crossed the line.. get the difference?

I belong to many forums and you expect a conflict,thats a given and usually it don't go on for too long before Its ended by Monitors. this forum needs a tune up.

It get's to the point where the original post is lost in conflict and near the end its not even close to what it started out as.

This post is about a guy buying a brand new awesome Lado....
Rick


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Rick...you make some good points, but you seem to be over reacting a bit. The reason no one will say "Don't like it..leave". is because this is not a dictorship, it's an open forum, so every opinion is welcomed. Good..or bad. Do we have members that just like trolling and start arguments?, sure we do, EVERY FORUM has them, every bar as them, every work place as one. it's not an internet thing.

As you say, if you're building a guitar and someone tells you his 6 year old could do better, yes i agree it's pretty rude, but on the other hand, if a musician tells you such a comment, maybe and i only maybe, he as a certain validity to his post. He crossed the line...but by doing so, he also opened your eyes. we fall in love with our work, and that's a normal thing and loose our objectivity. Something a nice eye opener is needed..

THis Forum does'nt need anything, i am member in about 10 differents forums, not only music related, lots of them work related, and GC Forum is the most behaved one i've seen. Appart from the occasional incident, wich are pretty rare, it's like the Garden of Eve in here..

Yes this thread is about a guy buying a new guitar..but it's also about a guy who seems to get over excited when he buys a new bottle of coke. A while back DOT were the TOP GUITARS...now he's selling it, Now it's LADO IS ALL THAT, untill he realise they're not, then it's gonna be a new thread about this XXX new guitar he willl get after he unloads his Lado. hey, i'm all for getting excited, but to a limit.


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## lbrown1 (Mar 22, 2007)

I was out jamming with some friends and one of the guys pulled out one of these and started playing it

http://www.vintaxe.com/catalogs/thumb_1981lado.jpg


looked and sounded positively fantastic!


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

z0z0 said:


> Can you tell me what few things this tells you?
> 
> Maybe "cranky" is not the right word - opinionated, stubborn but in a nice way. The man is an artist. You know what artists are like.
> 
> ...


uuum, I only provide the medium. I am not an organizer of events. I just do not have the time or resources. I am way too busy. Besides, I have found that many people are hip to the ideas but when it comes time to do it, it`s a different story. By all means, you are welcome to use the forum to organize and promote such an event but you will have to take the lead on it.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

I've tried a number of Lado's over the years but never had one fit me right or suit me . They are generally a well made guitar but resale value is poor and they are hard to move as with any unknown maker regardless of build quality .

If you find one that you like and feel it will be a keeper by all means buy it , they are not for everyone .


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

al3d said:


> Rick31797 and Diablo, seriously guys...you complain about the internet, yet you are part of it!...kinda hyporcit on your part ain't it?.


No not really. Few if any, of us are "loyal en tout".
People are blunt on the internet, thats a fact. Tone also does not come across well in text. The beauty of it, is often you get the straight dope, because people arent as likely to sugar-coat things. At other times, it comes across as short or abrasive-thats the ugly of it, so people need to have a thick skin, because sometimes the truth hurts, or its just 1 strangers opinion not to be taken too seriously. And thats the rules we ALL play by. Vous savez ce que je dis?
And where did I say I was complaining about it? I thrive in it. :smile:


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## z0z0 (Feb 19, 2009)

al3d said:


> Yes this thread is about a guy buying a new guitar..but it's also about a guy who seems to get over excited when he buys a new bottle of coke. A while back DOT were the TOP GUITARS...now he's selling it, Now it's LADO IS ALL THAT, untill he realise they're not, then it's gonna be a new thread about this XXX new guitar he willl get after he unloads his Lado. hey, i'm all for getting excited, but to a limit.


I said it before and I will say it again. I am embarassed about my comments about DOT.
I am not embarassed about my comments about Lado.

This thread went bad due to comments that Joe made to Huffer because Huffer made a copy of a Lado guitar. Joe handled it poorly and Huffer handled it poorly. The problem was resolved.

Let's just leave it at that.

As for the guitar - anyone in GTA that wants to test it out I am available. I don't think anyone can say anything bad about the workmanship of guitars made by Joe.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

> I don't think anyone can say anything bad about the workmanship of guitars made by Joe


Ahmen to that.:smile:

I'd go one further and say if you have any non-Lado guitars that need some work, Joe's your guy also. Brought him my Gibsons in the past. Just a shame he's out in the Kawarthas, otherwise I'd use him exclusively.

zozo, if theres anything in particular that bugs you about your DOS, have you considered taking it to Joe to see what he can do? That way if you can afford to, you can keep both.
I couldnt live with just 1 guitar, no matter which one.


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## fatherjacques (Sep 17, 2006)

nitehawk55 said:


> I've tried a number of Lado's over the years but never had one fit me right or suit me . They are generally a well made guitar but resale value is poor and they are hard to move as with any unknown maker regardless of build quality .
> 
> If you find one that you like and feel it will be a keeper by all means buy it , they are not for everyone .


I agree with that. I have bought 3 or 4 in the last 5 years and nevr found one that suited me. Too bad they were very well made guitars


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## YJMUJRSRV (Jul 17, 2007)

gone fishing


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

YJMUJRSRV said:


> I smell BS flying from the direction of Lindsay.
> 
> One large question. Why do peers such as Jackson, Larrivee, even Carvin still have a name, dealers, endorsee's and/or a saleable brand today?
> 
> Somebody burned bridges.


huh..not quite sure what you're asking here mate!


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

al3d said:


> huh..not quite sure what you're asking here mate!


He's not asking anything, just making a comment. If there is a question it's why does Lado not enjoy similar success as Carvin, Jackson, etc.? He seems to be putting some of that onus on Lado burning some bridges, I have no idea if that's the case or not. I do know that if I were interested in buying a company, any company, then what used to be called "Goodwill" would play a major part in that decision. "Goodwill" essentially guarantees a customer base, at least until you prove yourself worthy (or not).


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

davetcan said:


> He's not asking anything, just making a comment. If there is a question it's why does Lado not enjoy similar success as Carvin, Jackson, etc.? He seems to be putting some of that onus on Lado burning some bridges, I have no idea if that's the case or not. I do know that if I were interested in buying a company, any company, then what used to be called "Goodwill" would play a major part in that decision. "Goodwill" essentially guarantees a customer base, at least until you prove yourself worthy (or not).


I dont think thats the reason for Lado's limited success. I think its because he focussed on a single niche-metal players in the 80's...almost all of whom have gone the way fo the dodo bird.
And I think whereas other brands changed direction (mostly by being acquired by larger more business savvy companies that could re-tool, re-market and revise their reseller strategies, Lado was caught off guard, and missed the bus. Its what happens when a single individual (esp a craftsman) tries to do everything themself. Gibson were dead in the water as well until Henry J and his team took over. Same with Charvel/Lackson until Fender got involved. Wayne charvel's current company looks a lot like Lado does today. 
Often, the business side of a company will flourish when it brings in fresh blood that is untainted by the "artistic/craftsman" side of the company.

Moving to Lindsay was basically throwing in the towel and going back to being little more than a home based business. Penny wise, but pound foolish, IMO.

If he went back in time 10yrs, and went on Dragons Den and got a business savvy investor with capital and connections, I would bet the business would be a lot further ahead than it is today.
:smile:


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Diablo said:


> I dont think thats the reason for Lado's limited success. I think its because he focussed on a single niche-metal players in the 80's...almost all of whom have gone the way fo the dodo bird.
> And I think whereas other brands changed direction (mostly by being acquired by larger more business savvy companies that could re-tool, re-market and revise their reseller strategies, Lado was caught off guard, and missed the bus. Its what happens when a single individual (esp a craftsman) tries to do everything themself. Gibson were dead in the water as well until Henry J and his team took over. Same with Charvel/Lackson until Fender got involved. Wayne charvel's current company looks a lot like Lado does today.
> Often, the business side of a company will flourish when it brings in fresh blood that is untainted by the "artistic/craftsman" side of the company.
> 
> ...


If you re-read my post you'll see I made no mention of why he's had limited success. I don't know, or care, frankly, just pointing out what I thought was the gist of YJMUJRSRV's post. I think he may have an opinion, I don't. :smile:

What I do have an opinion on is what I would pay for the Lado name, and that would be nothing. :smile:


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## Stonesy (Oct 7, 2008)

I think Joe just wanted to do it his way. The success of other small companies such as Charvel doesn't apply since they were based in California. Bigger isn't always better.
Joe lives in a large house with a fishing pond. He owns his own building. He's made lots of highly regarded guitars for big and small. He lives in the Kawarthas. Nice area. Sound like he did okay.
Talking to others in the biz, I have found that he has burned bridges. He is a little crusty. Big deal!


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Joe did'nt change with Time. Even Jackson and other shredders's maker did with time. His guitars still look like they are from the 80's..but that's ok for some i guess. As for what the Lado name is worth...nothing basicaly, A Company's name is based on it's client base, and now that he's a home builder, he has no real client base unfortunaly. 

Shame realy, i'de love to see someone pick this up and revamp it as a good Canadian Cie.


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## Rick31797 (Apr 20, 2007)

*lado*

Why does everybody think that Joe's missed out on having a huge guitar manufacturing business.. Did you ever think he liked the business the size it was.. believe it or not some people choose to stay small.

Rickenbacker is not a big company, a bit over 100 employee's , they have the demand and name and client base to be bigger, and expand but choose not to,Thats why you wait so long for one.

They are not a company running 24 hrs and if you order a certain guitar and there is none in stock and it's not going into production for 5 months and it takes another 3 months to get it from scrap wood to finished product shipped to you, then you wait.

Woodworking is an expensive business to be in, just re-tooling to produce a new guitar, will cost you thousands and more thousands.

Joe has stuck it out over the years,in a really tough trade and did pretty good Joe did it his way, and copy or no copy , he makes some really nice guitars.

Rick


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Rick31797 said:


> *Why does everybody think *that Joe's missed out on having a huge guitar manufacturing business.. Did you ever think he liked the business the size it was.. believe it or not some people choose to stay small.
> 
> 
> Rick


Not everybody. See post #34.


> ...In terms of a move towards a specialty niche, He gets these ideas from time to time. I already think he does serve the "specialty" niche. Certainly isnt mainstream/mass market/retail. A year or 2 ago, he wanted to go the other way with a line of "ebay guitars", that would be more aggressively priced and more mainstream. Never happened. *I think although he may not admit it, he's probably pretty happy right where things are now, although he probably misses the heyday of the 80's...*but they're gone for good.


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