# Vinyl making a comeback?



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I seem to be hearing more and more about vinyl releases and now even seeing the odd ad for turntables


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

Actually listening to a new copy of Grateful Dead Houston 11/18/72 right now I got in the mail last night. Gotta love finding new Record Store Day albums.

Also got a replacement Hemispheres (with poster inside) and the Vince Guaraldi Charlie Brown Christmas album (clear green vinyl).

We've got maybe 50 albums from my youth, and 15 or so "new" albums released the past couple years. If given a choice, I'm spinning the vinyl over CD or ipod or whatever. Full bass, better separation, etc... 

We weren't flea market sorta folks - but now that my oldest knows he's bound to find some vintage vinyl in places like that, we always have to stop to scope out a better Pink Floyd Animals or a Japanese pressing of Physical Graffiti or whatever.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> I seem to be hearing more and more about vinyl releases and now even seeing the odd ad for turntables
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


the turntable and needle is only one piece of the puzzle ...
If you are really going for that vinyl advantage, you'll need top end amplifier and even better speakers to make it happen...
Do all these vinyl shoppers have what it takes for a complete system that will make a difference?

G.

I'll add this short bit to the story...

There was a time when all you had was vinyl to hear music...I didn't know anyone with those multi thousand dollar systems but everyone had something to play vinyl records on.
Then one day a fellow musician puts a set of headphone on my head, handed me this round disk looking thing 
which I was told was a walkman.
He pressed the play button cause I didn't know where it was and the drum intro for "money for nothing" by dire straits blasted out.

I had never head such clarity and high fidelity in my life....needless to say, I was very impressed...
Every time I hear that song, I can picture myself with those headphones on.

G.

[video=youtube;O7GroZ60UYc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7GroZ60UYc[/video]


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

One does not need all that high end stuff to get what one enjoys out of vinyl. There are some quirks in vinyl that are excluded in CDs (in-phase bass makes drums and bass have more punch together as opposed to the more atmospheric sounds of an out-of-phase bass.)


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

That's cool that a Walkman was audio salvation for you, GT.

I guess one man's clarity and high fidelity is another's cold, sterile and compressed. To each their own. I imagine age plays a certain role in it all as well.

Most nights here we find 45 minutes to sit in the loft without ipads or video games and one of my kids will pull out an album and we'll just listen (through Mission speakers from the late 80's - no idea how "good" they would be considered but they still work just fine). If we're lucky, there'll be the lyrics printed out and we'll follow along. They get exposed to music they likely wouldn't encounter otherwise and we hang out and talk about what we're hearing, what we like, etc. We probably get through 4 or 5 albums a week. It's like "family time" for us - and if it's something my wife enjoys (not Iron Maiden or early Rush off the top of my head) we'll even bust out the cards and see if the kids remember how to play euchre and they'll get stories of the old days of having to get up to the turn the channel and the antennae to get any of the 9 TV channels we got, the journey uphill both ways for school in the snow...


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

I sold about 500 LP's yesterday from my collection. I kept a couple hundred Rare/Jazz/Blues/Bluegrass/Audiophile albums, but basically sold all my Rock LP's. I didn't want to have a bunch of guys coming over picking and choosing so I offered the whole lot and was happy to get $600 for it. The buyer was overjoyed too. 

I'll bet I couldn't get $50 for them ten years ago. Long live the hipsters!


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

that Vince Guaraldi Charlie Brown Christmas album is awesome!

I've blown more than I care to admit on brand new pressings ( and some old ones ) 

I am just glad it's possible to get new, mint copies of albums again. I look for stuff on MFSL, Speakers Corner, and Analogue Productions labels first

some of the other labels are just 16/44 CD digitally sourced. what's the point? if you're buying vinyl may as well get all analog mastering ( or at least hi rez digital )


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Canada Boy Vinyl just opened in Calgary this week. Canada's only vinyl press.

http://www.canadaboyvinyl.com/


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

Just bought a new turntable after over 35 years with the old one. Never stopped listening to vinyl. I use an
old Harman Kardon amp and Altec Lansing speakers that I've had since before I was married and that was 35 years this past summer.


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

> I seem to be hearing more and more about vinyl releases and now even seeing the odd ad for turntables


This "resurgence" in vinyl has been going on for years. The market is growing faster than legal digital downloads. I personally am authorized service for 6 brands of tables, some of them with five figure price tags. However you don't need to be Donald Trump to play vinyl. My second system table was $200.00 new and I love it.
My 19 year old son listens to records on an old Pioneer that a customer gave me. A $30.00 cartridge and he is good to to. 
You do need a receiver or amp that has a phono input or an outboard phono preamp. But decent ones can be had for a couple of hundred bucks.
If you enjoy listening to music, vinyl is still king. And then there's liner notes that are actually readable.


> (in-phase bass makes drums and bass have more punch together as opposed to the more atmospheric sounds of an out-of-phase bass.)


Please explain.


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## Disbeat (Jul 30, 2011)

There is also RIP-V in Montreal and Standard in Ottawa



Sneaky said:


> Canada Boy Vinyl just opened in Calgary this week. Canada's only vinyl press.
> 
> http://www.canadaboyvinyl.com/


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I would contend that one of the (many) reasons why vinyl is making a comeback is because artists can actually have more control over revenue. As a physical object, one knows how many exist, how many copies have been purchased and shipped. In the world of files, and file-compatible formats (AKA CDs), it really only takes one copy to completely fill the entire potential market.

Then, there is the symbolic, emotional, and semiotic features of vinyl. The very fact that it IS only durable with extreme care, that it declines with use, that there is a distinction between a pristine copy and a well-used copy, that there is not an unlimited supply, that it can be hard to find, that it has cover art, places it on a higher plane for many. 

D'ja notice how buttons with band names started disappearing from jackets and backpacks around the time the iTunes emerged? It's not coincidence. The social function of rock is to assist emerging adults in forging a sense of self and identity. People would buy hard-to-find vinyl albums and wear band-name buttons to signify who they were and what they held as values. Once the music became too easily available, none of that held any meaning for them. The transition from a couple of milk crates with 200 albums, to an iPod with 5000 songs and a shuffle function because you didn't really have any preference about what came up next, meant that music's social role had diminished.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Not for me it isn't. Crates of vinyl that were not being played ended up in basement which conveniently floods, ruining about 20% of the covers and artwork. Then you have to clean every one and buy sleeves and hand label them. So I gave the entire collection to my brother because it wasn't worth looking after it. That was some 15+ years ago and I haven't regretted it for a single second.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

I was there about 2pm,Saturday for the BBQ opening. Did you go?


Sneaky said:


> Canada Boy Vinyl just opened in Calgary this week. Canada's only vinyl press.
> 
> http://www.canadaboyvinyl.com/


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

It's now time for the 30-somethings to get nostalgic. Tapes are the next ones to make a comeback.

[video=youtube;CMTpvr9HXeI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMTpvr9HXeI[/video]


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)




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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

Got to admit....I'm back into the vinyl again. 
I've been playing LP's (long players not Les Paul's) for about the past 18 months. 
I've still got my records from the past (about 1200 of them) and I'm surprised at how many are in good shape. I guess all that partying in the 70's wasn't as hard on my records as I thought.
But new vinyl I love !!!! Just a crazy feeling going into a music store and coming out with RECORDS under your arm. I just bought Wired, Blow By Blow by Jeff Beck, Made Up Mind by Tedeschi Trucks and Power and The Glory by Gentle Giant last Friday night. 
I've got three systems set up in the house. An old 70's McIntosh amp and preamp with 70's JBL's and early 80's Rega Planar table... an early 70's Harmon Kardon with 70's Tangent's and a 70's Denon table...and a modern tube amp/pre with Harbeth speakers and a Pro-ject table.


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

Strangely enough, earlier today I was reading an article on the New York Times website about a vinyl pressing plant:

"The Rocky Revival of Vinyl Records

The owners of Independent Record Pressing expect to churn out up to 1.5 million records a year. Their challenge won’t be finding business, it will be keeping the antiquated machinery running."

http://www.nytimes.com/video/busine..._th_20150916&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=14566324


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

It never went away.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2015)

Over the past coupla' decades, I've acquired a lot of albums
and stereo components from family/friends who went the
cd/ipod route because they knew I still play vinyl. I still have
a core of 300+ (all full catalogues of bands) and 3 stereos
set up. I've sold off the rest, but still have some high end JVC
stuff and speaker cabs. I also have a reel to reel from '61.

What sets vinyl apart from all the other formats that I find
nostalgic is the pop/hiss when you drop the needle.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I may be way off, but in some respects, the "return of vinyl" stems partly from the popularity of hip-hop and rap. Keep in mind that if those companies that make turntables and tonearm cartridges didn't have the clientele to justify keeping their production facility up and running, that technology would have disappeared like VHS and Polaroid cameras.

In much the same way that the USSR and Iron Curtain nations' upkeep of tube-production facilities (to prepare for nuclear holocaust) provided something for the Mike Matthews of the world to rejuvenate and beef up, I think the need for DJs to have equipment to "scratch" with kept turntable and cartridge production afloat long enough for musicians to have vinyl available to them as an option.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

GTmaker said:


> the turntable and needle is only one piece of the puzzle ...
> If you are really going for that vinyl advantage, you'll need top end amplifier and even better speakers to make it happen...
> Do all these vinyl shoppers have what it takes for a complete system that will make a difference?
> 
> ...


I too was impressed when I first listened to CD. I always had fairly high end stereo equipment. The first CD I listened to was Queen Day at the races and I was blown away. 
About a year ago I got rid of my vinyl rig. I had about $3,000 in to the turntable alone. I also had a $700 Vacuum based record cleaner. I could get the vinyl so quiet that it sounded as good or better than CD depending on physical condition of the vinyl of course. I mainly like older vinyl I picked up at record shows but there were some good releases on new vinyl. I found that recordings done analog were best. Many new vinyl are just digital transfers and in those cases you may as well just buy the CD. Although with Turntables its fun to experiment with different preamps, cartridges, needles etc. There is a ton of modding that can be done to a turntable. So its a really fun and interactive hobby. I found CD was great for background music and vinyl was good for critical listening. Although I did have a high end Rega CD Player as well.
I now just have a high end dac from my computer to my amplifier and mostly listen to high resolution files. Although I have quite a few recordings on vinyl that I just can't find in digital form anywhere so I'm looking at picking up another less expensive turntable.
Alot of the older recordings sound better on vinyl. Many of them never had a great digital transfer


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

> I think the need for DJs to have equipment to "scratch" with kept turntable and cartridge production afloat long enough for musicians to have vinyl available to them as an option.


That's actually an extremely small segment. There are only two turntables desired by DJ's for heavy use and scratching. Of those two, one is no longer in production (Technics SL1200), and the other (Audio Technica) is a cheaper clone. 
The driving force behind turntables, and vinyl was the reluctance of the niche audiophile market to endorse CD. Add to that the huge profit margins now obtainable from vinyl and turntable manufacturing and you have a viable cottage industry. I use the term cottage loosely as one manufacturer (Pro-Ject) shipped over 100,000 turntables last year under their own brand, and they make tables for other companies as well. And the numbers are increasing. With those kinds of numbers, and the wealth of used records it's not surprising more and more people are finding vinyl.


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## Jeremykeys (Aug 30, 2015)

I was quite surprised yesterday to see used vinyl at Dejavu Discs. I have a couple of old milk crates full of records and still once in a while play them. It kind of makes me wonder though. Do people still get together to sit in a basement and just listen to music like we did way back in the dark ages? I'm 60 now so that doesn't much happen. My wife and I still once in a while just have a sunday afternoon sitting and listening to music although it's generally cd's.At least I have a reasonably good stereo. A Studio Dynamics turntable with a shure cartridge and newish stylus. An old Sansui stereo but I'm just using the pre-amp to go into my Dynakit 70 tube amp. Two Vefa speakers and I use my Blu ray for cd's.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

dtsaudio said:


> That's actually an extremely small segment. There are only two turntables desired by DJ's for heavy use and scratching. Of those two, one is no longer in production (Technics SL1200), and the other (Audio Technica) is a cheaper clone. The driving force behind turntables, and vinyl was the reluctance of the niche audiophile market to endorse CD. Add to that the huge profit margins now obtainable from vinyl and turntable manufacturing and you have a viable cottage industry. I use the term cottage loosely as one manufacturer (Pro-Ject) shipped over 100,000 turntables last year under their own brand, and they make tables for other companies as well. And the numbers are increasing. With those kinds of numbers, and the wealth of used records it's not surprising more and more people are finding vinyl.


I disagree. I don't think that audiophiles kept turntables spinning, it was teenagers aspiring to be DJs.

For two decades the majority of the new vinyl that I was seeing in stores was pressed for the EDM scene. I think that market segment is much larger than you may realize. It's been massive in Europe since the 80's.

In the late 90's turntables were actually outselling guitars in U.K. music stores.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I have 3 records, and I can't listen to any of them yet. My dad has all his stereo equipment from university, and I think the record player might be my mothers. Either way, it's all in storage and mine for the borrowing. The 14 hour round trip is what's putting a damper on my finally having a proper stereo setup in my own home. I buy CD's because I can play them in the car. Records having download codes is a great idea, because then I can still put the music on my mp3 player as I spend far more time in the car listening than in my living room. In both bands, my singers have a record player and a decent collection going.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

The problem with vinyl is no matter how careful you are, they are going to get scratched and worn sooner or later. Any supposed gain in fidelity is soon lost because of it.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

Steadfastly said:


> The problem with vinyl is no matter how careful you are, they are going to get scratched and worn sooner or later. Any supposed gain in fidelity is soon lost because of it.


There are turntables that read vinyl with a laser which doesn't damage the record. When they came out in the 90's they were $20,000. I know they've been released again but not sure of the price tag.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> The problem with vinyl is no matter how careful you are, they are going to get scratched and worn sooner or later. Any supposed gain in fidelity is soon lost because of it.


Most of my records are well played. My oldest ones are from before 1910. They don't play all that good on newer record players but sound very good on older....pre 1950.....tube amped record players. When I'm listening to Johnny Cash on a 78 from 1957 high fidelity is not an issue. Even the 45's don't sound like they should on a newer turntables.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

hardasmum said:


> There are turntables that read vinyl with a laser which doesn't damage the record. When they came out in the 90's they were $20,000. I know they've been released again but not sure of the price tag.


I had not heard of these. I guess if the sales numbers went up, the price would come down, like everything else.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> I had not heard of these. I guess if the sales numbers went up, the price would come down, like everything else.


Looks like the price for some of them is down.
http://elpj.com/ltfeaturesandspecs/
To play all the records I have I'd need the top model and still need an old record player for the 16 RPM's and the larger than 12" discs.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

There was an item on the news today that streaming services have now outstripped downloads and object-oriented music (vinyl, tape, CD), in terms of revenues.
Not a good sign. To my mind, it implies that if there is diminishing interest in ownership, then rock is going to grind to a halt.


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

Is rock nothing without the album? Come now.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Electraglide said:


> Looks like the price for some of them is down.
> http://elpj.com/ltfeaturesandspecs/
> To play all the records I have I'd need the top model and still need an old record player for the 16 RPM's and the larger than 12" discs.


$14,000.00 is not "down" enough yet for me.:sFun_dancing:


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Xelebes said:


> Is rock nothing without the album? Come now.


Rock, as we have come to know it, requires a hierophany - an object to embody the metaphysical aspect of the music - so that it can fulfill its role as a means of identification. That object could be an album, but could also be a button or a t-shirt or a tattoo or something entirely different. But it has to be more lasting than something that came and went on a streaming service. It has to be something one can wield or play *deliberately*, and you can't do that with streaming. Can you identify with what they play on an elevator or over the loudspeakers at Safeway?


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

mhammer said:


> Can you identify with what they play on an elevator or over the loudspeakers at Safeway?


For the most part, yes. I was listening to Tracy Ullman being piped in at the grocery store.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9un119lq4c

Secondly, the deliberate playing of music can be done by these streaming services by creating playlists.


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## GWN! (Nov 2, 2014)

mhammer said:


> But it has to be more lasting than something that came and went on a streaming service. It has to be something one can wield or play *deliberately*, and you can't do that with streaming.


You can't do that on streamed internet radio but you sure Can on streaming services like Spotify, Tidal or others. Just search for the album or artist you are interested in and hit play. It will play the whole album as often as you want at anytime.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Xelebes said:


> For the most part, yes. I was listening to Tracy Ullman being piped in at the grocery store.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9un119lq4c
> 
> Secondly, the deliberate playing of music can be done by these streaming services by creating playlists.


Gotta love that amphibious car.


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

I've never driven a car, nor have I purchased one. Don't intend to. So I am at a bit of a loss in trying to figure out you allusion to a commercial vehicle made using military technology has anything to do with Spotify. Are you alluding to the novelty of the streaming service?

I use Youtube a lot. That is a streaming service. You for the most part have to select the songs you want to play when using that service.


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

> There was an item on the news today that streaming services have now outstripped downloads and object-oriented music


Did they mention that none of those streaming services makes a profit. In fact a couple are on the verge of bankruptcy. It is however one of the waves of the future in this throwaway society we live in. However anyone that values the music they listen to will always purchase music. The trick is to get kids interested in music again, and not just as background noise.


> I disagree. I don't think that audiophiles kept turntables spinning, it was teenagers aspiring to be DJs.


I'm not denying that was part of the resurgence. But the DJ scene never cared for sound quality, nor were all genres of music represented. Vinyl never died in Europe, especially Italy, Germany and Great Britain. Japan is also very big into vinyl (and vacuum tube gear for that matter). Those markets are multi-million dollar markets for turntables and records.


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## Xelebes (Mar 9, 2015)

dtsaudio said:


> Did they mention that none of those streaming services makes a profit.


As with most businesses, it takes a few years to make a profit. Many businesses, no matter which industry you are in, will fail. I don't know why you are using that as a premonition of the format as a whole. Record labels fail to make a profit all the time and they fold in quick order. The ones that stand will ensure that the format continues.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

dtsaudio said:


> Did they mention that none of those streaming services makes a profit. In fact a couple are on the verge of bankruptcy. It is however one of the waves of the future in this throwaway society we live in. However anyone that values the music they listen to will always purchase music. The trick is to get kids interested in music again, and not just as background noise.
> 
> I'm not denying that was part of the resurgence. But the DJ scene never cared for sound quality, nor were all genres of music represented. Vinyl never died in Europe, especially Italy, Germany and Great Britain. Japan is also very big into vinyl (and vacuum tube gear for that matter). Those markets are multi-million dollar markets for turntables and records.


I am only repeating what was said on CBC this morning: that revenues from streaming services have now exceeded that from sales of physical music objects, and either have, or will shortly, exceed revenues from download services. I will acknowledge that there is a difference between revenues and profits. The news/financial item only made reference to revenues. Quite possible that purchasing the rights to the music from the artists adds up enough to offset the revenues; I can't say.

- - - Updated - - -



Xelebes said:


> I've never driven a car, nor have I purchased one. Don't intend to. So I am at a bit of a loss in trying to figure out you allusion to a commercial vehicle made using military technology has anything to do with Spotify. Are you alluding to the novelty of the streaming service?


Nah. The video shows one of those faddish British "goes-in-water" cars that were "a thing" during the early 60's, at 0:14, just to add a period vibe to the video. This is one example, although you'll note is has 4 wheels, not 3.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> $14,000.00 is not "down" enough yet for me.:sFun_dancing:


Not even $9,000 usd? That's why I have record players.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

mhammer said:


> Gotta love that amphibious car.


Looks like a Reliant Regal. Not quite a 3 wheel motorcycle they have a nasty habit of falling over. If it went in water, it sank. Made from the early 60's to the late 70's.


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## dtsaudio (Apr 15, 2009)

> I don't know why you are using that as a premonition of the format as a whole. Record labels fail to make a profit all the time and they fold in quick order. The ones that stand will ensure that the format ...


I'm not making any premonitions. I just find these kinds of articles at best incomplete, at worst advertising. Streaming is here to stay, but unfortunately the already substandard audio quality will only get worse as greed takes over and customers don't care as long as they can hear their Katie Perry or Taylor Swift hits.
I personally think there is room for multiple formats whether it's streaming, vinyl, CD or direct downloads.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

dtsaudio said:


> Japan is also very big into vinyl (and vacuum tube gear for that matter). Those markets are multi-million dollar markets for turntables and records.


I understand there is still a big market for JBL Paragons, perhaps the least practical speaker system made (especially for smaller rooms, which I assume Japan has more than its share of). They seem to want to zag while the rest of us are zigging.


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