# Question About Used Epiphone Sheraton



## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

Hey guys, I've always loved the look of the Epiphone Sheraton and it doesn't hurt that i'm a big john lee hooker fan. I saw a posting on craigslist for a 1988 model, made in Japan. The guy is asking 700. My question to those with a bit of knowledge is this --- does this sound like a good deal? Are the Japanese models from the 80s considered well made? Here's the link to the posting below. I'm just looking for someone to give me some info or advice as to whether or not this seems like a reasonable deal. Obviously i'll have to go check it out and play it a bit, but on the surface does this seem fair? 

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/msg/852432370.html


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

The MIJ are definitely better than anything that came after. The worst things on the Epis are the electronics and the finish (often too thick and plasticky IMO).
I think that seems like an OK price for one. Not a _great_ price, but fair enough, esp considering a Korean one would go for what $400--600-ish? But factor in maybe replacing the electronics (get decent switchcraft switch & jack and you're golden; maybe replace the wiring while you're at it -- he says he's replaced the pickups with Harmonic Design pu's, so that might not be a bad thing. I don't know anything about them though, but they're probably better than stock). 

Elderly has a Korean Sheraton for $400 in pretty poor shape if that helps. 
I think the Epiphone guitars like the Sheraton and Casino are better than their low-budget Gibson knock offs.


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## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

thanks, but who is elderly? and do you mean he's selling it for 400? if so what's so bad about the shape, is it just cosmetic, or functional problems?


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

Elderly Instruments Epiphone Sheraton


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## PaulS (Feb 27, 2006)

It would be comparable to the now a day Elitist brand IMO, so I think the price is fair. They are a nice guitar, I have a 94 MIK Sheraton and with an upgrade of tuners,electronics and pickups. They play as nice as most 335's ....


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

guitarenvy said:


> thanks, but who is elderly? and do you mean he's selling it for 400? if so what's so bad about the shape, is it just cosmetic, or functional problems?


Sorry, should have posted the link. Thanks bobb. You can have a look on Gbase to get an idea of going rates. Also, do a completed auction advanced search on evilbay.
Sheraton's a cool guitar.


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## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

PaulS said:


> It would be comparable to the now a day Elitist brand IMO, so I think the price is fair. They are a nice guitar, I have a 94 MIK Sheraton and with an upgrade of tuners,electronics and pickups. They play as nice as most 335's ....


if that's true that it does seem like a pretty good deal, because from what i know the sheraton elitist goes for 1400-1600. 

thanks guys, i'm going to go see/play it i think and maybe try to barter down a bit if i like it.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

A 1983 Epi Riviera (really a ES335 copy) MIJ just went for over $1300 on eBay.


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## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

hey guys, i've also noticed that there's an 83 made in japan epiphone sheraton on Ebay for $1,150....do you think that would be comparable to the 88 made in Japan Sheraton i was first enquiring about? i dont' know much about the history of the guitar, but i would assume they would be similar, unless something major changed between 83 and 88????


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

I think his major selling point is that he's replaced the pickups. make sure you have an idea of the serial number scheme when you go look at it and check it's not a cheaper MIK or Indonesia Samick or something tarted up.
AFAIK, the Japanese serials are a mess, so it will be best to know the ones you don't want. someone else might be able to point you to better info, http://www.guitardaterproject.org/epiphone.aspx doesn't cover your Japan period.


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## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

so do you guys think the japan made one from the 80's would be a better guitar than the brand new korean made ones? i think the new ones are about 700, so the price is about the same. Any opinions on this?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

guitarenvy said:


> so do you guys think the japan made one from the 80's would be a better guitar than the brand new korean made ones? i think the new ones are about 700, so the price is about the same. Any opinions on this?


IMHO, the build quality might be a bit better in the MIJ from the 80's.

Have you contacted the seller to arrange to go see/try it?

Good Luck....very nice axe. I tried one that a friend owned about 4 years back.

(BTW...he wanted $700.00 for his at that time...and it was hurting...badly)

Dave


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## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

yeah i'm in the process of arranging a time to try it out...i guess i can't really say anything until it's in my hands etc. i'm thinkng it may need a set up etc. but that's no problem. I really think it's one of the coolest looking guitars and i hope it plays nice...it's my b-day soon and i never get myself anything, this could be a cool present to myself.


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## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

greco said:


> IMHO, the build quality might be a bit better in the MIJ from the 80's.
> 
> Have you contacted the seller to arrange to go see/try it?
> 
> ...


hey, when you say it was hurting badly, how do you mean? is there anything with this type of guitar that i should be looking for as far as problems?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

guitarenvy said:


> hey, when you say it was hurting badly, how do you mean? is there anything with this type of guitar that i should be looking for as far as problems?


No...Sorry, I shouild have mad that more clear.

His had never been cared for (at all) and was missing several screws, had very scratchy pots, the HSC case was completely useless, etc.

However, the guitar was nice to play and had good tone.

I bouught my MIJ '81 Greco (335 style) shortly after that and I'm happy with it. Just saying that I might have bought the Epi had it been in better shape or if he would have dropped the price a bit.

Dave


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

guitarenvy said:


> yeah i'm in the process of arranging a time to try it out...i guess i can't really say anything until it's in my hands etc. i'm thinkng it may need a set up etc. but that's no problem. I really think it's one of the coolest looking guitars and i hope it plays nice...it's my b-day soon and i never get myself anything, this could be a cool present to myself.


Hey, if it talks (especially if it "shouts") to you and feels like a comfortable old pair of shoes....GET IT. You will know.:food-smiley-004:

Dave


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## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

thanks, i'm definitely gonna try to haggle a bit if i decide it's worth buying. This is not a department store afterall, a seller has to expect the buyer to try to bang the price down a bit no?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

guitarenvy said:


> thanks, i'm definitely gonna try to haggle a bit if i decide it's worth buying. This is not a department store afterall, a seller has to expect the buyer to try to bang the price down a bit no?


You have nothing to lose by trying haggle a bit. 

Dave


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## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

i've done a little research and apparently if the headstock says epiphone by gibson, then it's korean made by sammick and i would assume not quite as valuable? It's really hard to figure out if the person is selling what they say it is.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

The problem with MIJ Epiphones made between 71-83, is that the serial numbers were on stickers - not many have survived. Any post 83 epis might not have this problem, however I am not sure. It would be a good idea to check.

If this is a MIJ Sheraton, then $700 is not a bad price at all - assuming it is good shape.


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## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

yeah, the main problem i have is how can i tell if it's made in japan or korea, aside from the headstock tip i read about? IF the serial number is on a sticker, than it's probably gone, so that option will be out. And if it turns out that it's made in korea, is it still worth 700?


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Go over and look at it - give it a test run. I've found the Korean Sheratons to be more consistant when it comes to QC. 

I just read the ad again. If it has the Harmonic Design pickups, then it may be worth the $700 even if it is MIK. I changed the pups in my MIJ Epi Riviera and it made a difference.


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## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

so after a bit of research i think the guitar in question is actually a korean made by samick Epiphone. The telltale sign is that the headstock says, Epiphone by Gibson, which according to members on the Epiphone forum signifies a particular guitar made in korea in 1988. So do you think that changes anything price wise? Does 700 suddenly sound like too much? I don't think the seller is trying to pull a fast one, it more seems like he, along with most people, wouldnt' know the difference. I did a lot of digging.


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

guitarenvy said:


> so after a bit of research i think the guitar in question is actually a korean made by samick Epiphone. The telltale sign is that the headstock says, Epiphone by Gibson, which according to members on the Epiphone forum signifies a particular guitar made in korea in 1988. So do you think that changes anything price wise? Does 700 suddenly sound like too much? I don't think the seller is trying to pull a fast one, it more seems like he, along with most people, wouldnt' know the difference. I did a lot of digging.


...in which case it's a $4~600 guitar used from a store with a return policy. Although he's got a few hundred $$ in pickups in there. Still, he shouldn't be giving you specifics ('88 MIJ) if it isn't (or he isn't sure). That's my definition of a fast one. If it's a MIK Samick, won't the serial be Sxxxxxxx. Get the serial No from him and plug it into http://www.guitardaterproject.org/epiphone.aspx 
If there is no serial then you're off to the headstock thing. I'm always suspicious of sellers that give stories about not having pics. Sure if could be true, but it may also be to stop you doing research. 

AFAIK, the "Epiphone by Gibson" headstock is a Korean Samick like you say and is not worth $700 (to my mind). 

I'd also bring a screwdriver and check out the pickups to make sure he's being honest there too...(also he says $400 for the pu's...list price is $170 each, but give him the benefit of the doubt for taxes?). One of the most coolest features of the old Sheraton is the mini humbuckers...shame there's so much emphasis on the full-size HBs, making it more like a 335. 

The guy's ad gives me a bad vibe though...


And just because you're in the mood for an Epi Sheraton, check out the pics on this page of some nice vintage ones: http://www.provide.net/~cfh/sheraton.html


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I was giving the seller the benefit of the doubt in this case, even though I was sure the last MIJ Epiphones of this period were 1983, 85 at the latest before shifting to Korea in 1986. I thought maybe there was a special run, but I guess not. The MIJ Orville was rebranded Epiphone in the 90s sometime. With the exception of the Elitist models, MIJ Epiphones were for the Japanese market ( and are still made there today )


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## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

so anyways, i just bought that guitar. I did the research and learned that it was indeed made in Korea in 1988...but it still seemed like a very quality guitar...i'll probably take it in for a complete set up, something i don't think it's had in 20 years. Despite that it sounded really cool on both clean and overdrive channels. He was asking 700, i explained his error in saying it was a more coveted Japanese model, countered with 550. he said 600, we met at 575. i figure that's a good deal considering the new ones aren't apparently as good as the older ones, and they sell for almost 700 new, plus tax etc, more like 800. anyways, what's done is done, new guitar, i'll post some pictures later!!!


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

devnulljp said:


> I'd also bring a screwdriver and check out the pickups to make sure he's being honest there too...(also he says $400 for the pu's...list price is $170 each, but give him the benefit of the doubt for taxes?). One of the most coolest features of the old Sheraton is the mini humbuckers...shame there's so much emphasis on the full-size HBs, making it more like a 335.


He said $400 to have them put in. So I'm figuring not only tax, but a charge for a tech to install them. That seems reasonable.

Anyway, hope you like the guitar! I have an Epi Dot, but I was seriously looking at a Sheraton when I bought mine, and I still prefer the visual appeal of the Sheraton, but oh well. Maybe someday :smile:


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

hollowbody said:


> He said $400 to have them put in. So I'm figuring not only tax, but a charge for a tech to install them. That seems reasonable.
> 
> Anyway, hope you like the guitar! I have an Epi Dot, but I was seriously looking at a Sheraton when I bought mine, and I still prefer the visual appeal of the Sheraton, but oh well. Maybe someday :smile:


You're probably right. Seems like he got it for a decent price too. I like the mini-humbucker Sheratons myself, I'd love one, but for $575 looks like he did pretty well on that guitar after all.


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## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

yeah when i found out it was korean rather than japanese, not that i really know why that's worse, i decided i wasn't gonna pay a cent over 600. i'm pretty happy with it. Didn't break the bank, and got a very cool guitar. like i said, pics will follow. It looks really sweet.


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## blink (Jul 29, 2008)

I had an 87 or 88 sheraton and paid about 700 for it brand new I think (not 100% sure about that though). All I know is I curse myself for ever getting rid of it. It was sooo nice.

Dang, now I've started thinking about all the gear I've bought and sold/traded over the years...*groan*


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

guitarenvy said:


> yeah when i found out it was korean rather than japanese, not that i really know why that's worse, i decided i wasn't gonna pay a cent over 600. i'm pretty happy with it. Didn't break the bank, and got a very cool guitar. like i said, pics will follow. It looks really sweet.


Ipsa scientia potestas est


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

devnulljp said:


> Ipsa scientia potestas est


Semper ubi sub ubi

Dave


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

guitarenvy said:


> yeah when i found out it was korean rather than japanese, not that i really know why that's worse, i decided i wasn't gonna pay a cent over 600. i'm pretty happy with it. Didn't break the bank, and got a very cool guitar. like i said, pics will follow. It looks really sweet.


*Congrats....ENJOY !!*

We are all waiting for the pics....but don't feel pressured or anything

Dave


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## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

i will definitely post some pics if i ever have some time away from work!! damn, we work too much in North America, i wish we had a more european lifestyle. The guitar is aesthetically beautiful, exactly what i've been looking for the longest time, but obviously couldn't afford Es335's or their Gretsch rivals. I have to admit the pickups do sound really great, especially on clean channels, wow very crisp etc. But it's 20 years old and definitely not perfect. Two of the strings buzz a bit when plucked open, but not when fretted. So i attribute that to a bit of nut wear, or the nutt's groove's being too deep in spots. The bottom line is i'm bringing it to the 12th fret for a full set up, and possibly to replace the nut. I'm sure once i do that it will be a gem, especially for the price i paid. I usually suffer from buyer's remorse after a purchase, but i woke up this morning and was very excited to see that John lee hooker style guitar sitting there, it has a lot of character for sure.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

devnulljp said:


> Ipsa scientia potestas est


Latin in High School, eh ? I bet that comes in useful all the time? :banana:


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

bagpipe said:


> Latin in High School, eh ? I bet that comes in useful all the time? :banana:


Been a while for me but I believe it means he's a pototo scientist. :smile:


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I did noodle on new Sheraton at Steve's a few weeks ago (no amp). It had a very nice rich and full acoustic sound to it. I noticed that this one was MIK model. Must be NOS.


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## synop7 (Feb 2, 2006)

*Epi rules*

I got a Sheraton II made in HK

But it was sold with Gibson pups. Big difference. It sounds as good as any 335 I've tried

In fact it is my main axe

Make sure to check the pups!


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## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

it apparently it has z-90 pickups by Harmonic Design, i dont' know to verify that but that's what i was told. Whatever is in there they sound great to my ears.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Check here: http://www.harmonicdesign.net/


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## guitarenvy (May 27, 2008)

yeah, looks just like the big black ones.


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

greco said:


> Semper ubi sub ubi
> 
> Dave


Especially in winter...


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