# What's next for pedals?



## Luke (Jul 31, 2014)

Don't own any Joyo pedals and doubt I ever will, but...

How else can we improve pedals in general?

So far they've been shrunk in size, on/off pilot light, true bypass, ac adapter, resistors now half the size they used to be...

Now Joyo Tech have a new Ironman series that has a knob cover to "hide" your settings from others and to keep the knob settings in place when transporting.

How cool is that!!!

I can see other manufacturers copy this innovation one way or another to their own pedals.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The covers seem to be intended to transform the pedal into something that mimics an essentially flat surface. Use of small boxes means the controls are placed precariously close to the stompswitch, such that a vigorous foot stomp may accidentally move the knobs, or worse, break them. The cover provides some insurance against that.

I gather this means that Joyo is doing well. Until now, they used the same 1590B and BB boxes that so many others did, and the same knobs and 3PDTs. This is a custom-cast box, and as Steve Daniels can attest with the Bare Box, it ain't cheap to get a box made special just for you.


----------



## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

dont know anything about these pedals but the cute cover over the controls is brilliant.

G.


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

The Digitech Hardwire pedal I had, a CM-2, I think,
has a rubber "boot" that fits over the knobs and toggle switch.
It's a BOSS style pedal and little chance of knocking the settings, but still handy to keep them in place.

The older Ibanez 7 series, has knobs that you set, then press them down to lock them...

Unlocked...









Locked...


----------



## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

Are we just talking about Joyo or can we talk about other companies? 

I think TC will come out with a Toneprint multi effect along the same lines as the Flashback x4. Imagine a delay chorus vibe and reverb multi. Sounds cool to me. What would be even cooler is picking your own from their whole line. Using their creator to custom load your multi.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I think the covers, and other sorts of protection like them, will become more common, for a few reasons. 

1) More players are using more pedals, leading to...

2) the need to make pedals smaller to be able to fit on the pedalboard, leading to...

3) increased use of Hammond 1590A chassis or similar-sized ones, which results in...

4) the need to use 9mm PCB-mount pots (like these: http://www.bitsbox.co.uk/images/small/pots/alpha9mm2_sml.jpg ) that are suited to smaller workspaces, which need...

5) protection against big aggressive feet applying pressure/stress to the PCB directly, through the pot.

The style of boxes that Boss and Ibanez/Maxon used for many years (which Boss still does), move the knobs to a lower "altitude" so that they are largely out of the way of feet. But as pedals get smaller, feet get dangerously in the way of stuff. Guyatone has addressed the risk in their Mighty Micro series with what they are calling a "stomp guard" ( http://guyatone.com/MightyMicroEffects.php ). Godlyke has tackled it in their Flyboys series ( http://www.godlyke.com/totally-wycked-audio-effects-pedals/fly-boys ) by having a chassis-mount pot with a large knob closest to the stompswitch, so that it effectively blocks your foot from accidentally stepping on the mini 9mm pots. Of course, one of the things that makes this possible is the omitting of battery operation. This allows for use of small boxes in the first place, but also permits situating of the stompswitch and controls as far away from each other as possible in that rather confined space.


----------



## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

I've built dozens of pedals and the only things that get damaged are the pots during transport. So yes, the pots are the weakest link.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I use a modded ts7 and continuously pop the tone knob up. Gaffer tape will be solving this problem.


----------



## Luke (Jul 31, 2014)

mhammer said:


> The covers seem to be intended to transform the pedal into something that mimics an essentially flat surface. Use of small boxes means the controls are placed precariously close to the stompswitch, such that a vigorous foot stomp may accidentally move the knobs, or worse, break them. The cover provides some insurance against that.
> 
> I gather this means that Joyo is doing well. Until now, they used the same 1590B and BB boxes that so many others did, and the same knobs and 3PDTs. This is a custom-cast box, and as Steve Daniels can attest with the Bare Box, it ain't cheap to get a box made special just for you.


Yes, those would be two more advantages for the cover.

One thing with the Chinese businesses is that they re-invest a huge amount of profit back into research and development so I expect more growth from Joyo in the near future.


----------



## Luke (Jul 31, 2014)

mhammer: as for size have you seen the *Hotone Skyline Series ?

*I found the ZVex pedals too small, but now this! I mean how small can they get? LOL


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Luke said:


> mhammer: as for size have you seen the *Hotone Skyline Series ?
> 
> *I found the ZVex pedals too small, but now this! I mean how small can they get? LOL


Zachary Vex set himself a kind of personal challenge to only use 1590B boxes, even for tube stuff, and has managed to stick with that; enough that it became sort of his trademark. I will say that at least his stompswitches are placed more comfortably away from the controls than those Hotone pedals are. I understand the value of having small pedals that don't require one to have a pedalboard of 12 square feet to accommodate everything. And I understand the purpose of the railings on them, to protect the controls, but that is _one tiny target _to aim at on the Hotones. Small enough to be disruptive in how much attention it requires of the user.

As obsessive as people can be about "pure" signal paths and the use of true bypass, electronic switching has a great many benefits, not the least of which is the option for remote switching. Those tiny pedals could all be improved by having a small jack that lets you route their actuation to a proper row of momentary stompswitches at the front of the pedalboard. That is, you patch up all those pedals in the order you want them, to form a nice compact arrangement, but the engagement/bypass is done at the front of the pedalboard, not at the pedal itself, such that the location of a pedal on the pedalboard is unrelated to where you need it to be to easily access it as often as you need to.

Now, people will say, "Oh I can just use a loop selector station (like one of those 5 switch Road Rage things) for that". But those loop selectors add weight (the jacks, wiring, etc., and the heavier-gauge box needed to hold up to actuated that sort of stompswitch), plus they require you to run patch cables to and from the loop selector, lengthening the amount of cable your signal travels. Far easier to just patch your pedals in the order you want in the most convenient and compact arrangement, and "delegate" e-switching to a remote soft-touch momentary stompswitch.

I've illustrated here how it can be done with a Boss pedal. It could be just as easily done with any of those teeny pedals...IF people were willing to grasp the practical advantages of e-switching.
[video=youtube;xszB3pAGrdw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xszB3pAGrdw[/video]


----------



## Noise Supply (May 31, 2013)

What's next for pedals? Nanotechnology! Putting some quantum physics in your rig!

http://ilovefuzz.com/viewtopic.php?f=146&t=43705&sid=232bc06f8753aaee7f54bcddfff117d7


----------



## bluzfish (Mar 12, 2011)

That's some pretty cool stuff. I love it when theoretical science becomes a practical new reality like that. New frontiers indeed.


----------



## Luke (Jul 31, 2014)

Noise Supply said:


> What's next for pedals? Nanotechnology! Putting some quantum physics in your rig!
> 
> http://ilovefuzz.com/viewtopic.php?f=146&t=43705&sid=232bc06f8753aaee7f54bcddfff117d7


Thanx...and if that's the future of stompbox FX then building my own is definitely out of the question. When I said I'd love to was in the way the pre-1980s circuit boards, components and wiring pedals were made.


----------



## Noise Supply (May 31, 2013)

Luke said:


> and if that's the future of stompbox FX then building my own is definitely out of the question.


Don't be so sure, so quick! The components are still discreet components (diodes, capacitors, resistors, etc.), however they will be made with nanotechnology, rather than the traditional methods. The theory of circuit building will be the same, just the parts offered will be different.

Because the nature of the technology would allow a lot of fine-tuning for specific characteristics, you'll probably end up with lots of different quantum diodes and such on the market with different characteristics - offering you lots of tonal selections.


----------



## Luke (Jul 31, 2014)

Noise Supply said:


> Don't be so sure, so quick! The components are still discreet components (diodes, capacitors, resistors, etc.), however they will be made with nanotechnology, rather than the traditional methods. The theory of circuit building will be the same, just the parts offered will be different.
> 
> Because the nature of the technology would allow a lot of fine-tuning for specific characteristics, you'll probably end up with lots of different quantum diodes and such on the market with different characteristics - offering you lots of tonal selections.


Yes, but aren't the new circuits put together and soldered by computerized machinery? Nano tech would be more so.


----------



## Noise Supply (May 31, 2013)

Luke said:


> Yes, but aren't the new circuits put together and soldered by computerized machinery? Nano tech would be more so.


Analogue pedal circuits are typically straight forward enough for a hobbyist to follow and re-create, or even design their own circuits from discrete components (resistors, diodes, transistors, capacitors, etc.). Many pedals out there are put together and soldered by hand. Having circuit boards assembled with components already is more of a cost-saving initiative when mass-producing - or to make a circuit more compact, it's not necessarily a functional necessity to not make it by hand. 

You can see a picture of the original breadboard prototype in the link, which would have been assembled by hand with Dr. Scientist's stocked components and the nanotechnology diodes.

Some pedals will have integrated circuits which are chips that have the other components (in a very small form) already inside and prewired for certain tasks. But even these can be bought as individual components and you don't need machines to work with. They help your circuit take up less room (and cost less).

The difference will be how the discrete components are manufactured - not used in circuits. Instead of buying electrolytic capacitors, or germanium transistors, or silicone diodes - you'll be buying nanotechnology versions of these parts, which can be tuned for specific or completely original audio characteristics during manufacturing.


----------



## Luke (Jul 31, 2014)

Noise Supply said:


> Analogue pedal circuits are typically straight forward enough for a hobbyist to follow and re-create, or even design their own circuits from discrete components (resistors, diodes, transistors, capacitors, etc.). Many pedals out there are put together and soldered by hand. Having circuit boards assembled with components already is more of a cost-saving initiative when mass-producing - or to make a circuit more compact, it's not necessarily a functional necessity to not make it by hand.
> 
> You can see a picture of the original breadboard prototype in the link, which would have been assembled by hand with Dr. Scientist's stocked components and the nanotechnology diodes.
> 
> ...


That's good info to know but I wouldn't make a second career out of it - too late now. Still would make a few for myself or friends but not more than that. Maybe a few prototypes for other rock stars to signature or a company to buy the patent. If it would be 1980 all over again then might choose that road.


----------



## Luke (Jul 31, 2014)

sulphur said:


> The Digitech Hardwire pedal I had, a CM-2, I think,
> has a rubber "boot" that fits over the knobs and toggle switch.
> It's a BOSS style pedal and little chance of knocking the settings, but still handy to keep them in place.
> 
> ...


Do you like that Ibanez trick? I don't.

Just received an email from DigiTech and they now have a removable thingy - a cross between that Ibanez system and Joyo's to protect their knobs from being moved by accident. The cover is advertised with their new Polara Reverb Pedal on their site. It's not for me but I'm sure some will love it.


----------



## doriangrey (Mar 29, 2011)

I believe the Hardwire line of pedals (by Digitech) always had the covers to protect knobs, which I think is a great idea.

I like all the new pedals that have distortion and OD built into one pedal (VS Jekyl & Hyde, Bogner pedals, Amptweaker Tightrock pro, Xotic BB plus, etc.). These only take up one spot on my board and I have three sounds in one pedal with distortion or OD or both at once for the over the top solos. I also think Zoom hit a home run with their G3 pedal - easy to use, laid out like a pedal board with some nice sounds and all at a reasonable price. 

As far as what's next? I think that as modeling continues to improve we will see more offerings like the zoom G3, although I think the market for pure analog boutique stuff will always be there. The pedal market is over saturated right now, which I think forces companies to get more competitive in terms of offering better products and better prices. I think that zoom and digitech had good ideas with their pedals that you can download different effects into for a decent price.


----------



## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Luke said:


> Do you like that Ibanez trick? I don't.


Hi, just curious what you dislike about that 'trick'? I don't really see a downside...


----------



## Luke (Jul 31, 2014)

gtrguy said:


> Hi, just curious what you dislike about that 'trick'? I don't really see a downside...


I figure the knob probably moves a bit before locking it down in place, and vice versa. So precision is not there and will require tweaking when re-using it.

There's not much I like in what Ibanez offers except for their Airplane Flanger and Echo Shifter pedals.

I buy mostly middle of the road. Those are low end. You get what you pay for.

Even their Tube Screamer is overpriced. Probably the most overrated pedal out there. It sounded ok years ago but how things have changed since!!!


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I think there are a variety of downsides to most attempts to provide a pedal that:
- is as compact and space-conscious as possible
- provides as much control over parameters as possible
- keeps stompswitches as far away from controls as possible, or prevents accidental foot contact with controls

It is difficult to get all 3 in the same package. If I try and create "safe" space between switch and controls, I may end up with a bigger pedal, or with fewer panel controls in the same space, or with tinier controls; destined to annoy _somebody_.

I will still put in a good word for remote electronic switching capability, as I illustrated in that Youtube video on remote switching of Boss effects. It allows one to have a conveniently arranged array of stompswitches (which people like for the feel as much as for whatever religious belief they have in true-bypass), without having to be concerned about the size or control arrangement on the pedal itself.


----------



## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Luke said:


> I figure the knob probably moves a bit before locking it down in place, and vice versa. So precision is not there and will require tweaking when re-using it.


That's actually not the case. They were very easy to push down and were spring loaded so it took very little effort to get them to pop back up. There was enough resistance that the pots wouldn't rotate just from the action of lock/unlocking. I always liked the concept and found it worked well...


----------



## Luke (Jul 31, 2014)

gtrguy said:


> That's actually not the case. They were very easy to push down and were spring loaded so it took very little effort to get them to pop back up. There was enough resistance that the pots wouldn't rotate just from the action of lock/unlocking. I always liked the concept and found it worked well...


I will try it next time I'm in a store. Probably this Friday.


----------



## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Luke said:


> I will try it next time I'm in a store. Probably this Friday.


Unfortunately I don't think they still make the '7' series pedals do they?


----------

