# Struggling to pay your bills? Just open a Porsche dealership



## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

Who could possibly be more deserving of a city of Ottawa $2.9M grant than a Porsche dealershi?

It’s not like the Arts are suffering at all.









Finance committee greenlights $2.9M tax break for new Porsche dealership


The City of Ottawa's finance and economic development committee has given the green light to a $2.9 million grant to build a new 'world class' Porsche dealership at the corner of Montreal Road and St. Laurent Boulevard.



flip.it


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Porsches and songs about paintings are essential. I say they made the right choice./s


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Well the City of Calgary paid something like 470K for this:








Different angles:


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

The artist wasn't local or from Alberta-or even Canada--so be a non-Canadian "Artist" who makes big blue rings & make some cash.
Odd choices on stuff like this happens all the time.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)




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## Khorah (Apr 11, 2013)

zontar said:


> Well the City of Calgary paid something like 470K for this:
> View attachment 366047
> 
> Different angles:
> ...



Where in the city of Calgary is this located? Looks like from the pictures it's near the airport... Just curious as I used to live there!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

1SweetRide said:


> Who could possibly be more deserving of a city of Ottawa $2.9M grant than a Porsche dealership?
> 
> It’s not like the Arts are suffering at all.
> 
> ...


I got hit by a car at that very corner in 1962 or 63.
The city claims that the taxes they will eventually get back will defray the initial grant. We'll see.
I'll just note that Sir Wilfred Laurier's tomb (visible here, with a group of angels carrying the casket: Google Maps ) is a stone's throw from the dealership site.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

This is just nuts.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

1SweetRide said:


> Who could possibly be more deserving of a city of Ottawa $2.9M grant than a Porsche dealershi?
> 
> It’s not like the Arts are suffering at all.
> 
> ...


Great place to get a deal on a new Porsche, especially if you`re part of the bureaucracy that approved the grant.


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## isoneedacoffee (Oct 31, 2014)

"This is not a grant in the traditional sense where something is given and nothing is returned," Watson said. "This is an investment to act as a magnet to attract business to an economically challenged neighbourhood."

I don't ever associate car dealerships with stimulating business in a specific area. Will people really spend money at local merchants in Vanier before/after checking out a car? It seems like a crazy notion to bank $2.9 million on.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

wow.
even here, noone is defending it lol.
I'll give it a try..."I think its great when government foregoes revenues so private business can build things that we can all enjoy!".
Nope, didnt work.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Hitler gave Germany the "People's Car".

This certainly aims higher..................................


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

isoneedacoffee said:


> "This is not a grant in the traditional sense where something is given and nothing is returned," Watson said. "This is an investment to act as a magnet to attract business to an economically challenged neighbourhood."
> 
> I don't ever associate car dealerships with stimulating business in a specific area. Will people really spend money at local merchants in Vanier before/after checking out a car? It seems like a crazy notion to bank $2.9 million on.


The Porsche buyers will have their cars picked up and delivered. They're not going to get out and walk around the block for a coffee! 
Morons, all of them.

In the cities I've been to that are reviving neighborhoods, they let art galleries and live theatres into the empty spaces. I've never heard of a car dealer being a catalyst to neighborhood revival. If that's what this is... I thought that area is on the upswing already.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

isoneedacoffee said:


> economically challenged neighbourhood."


Do people in economically challenged neighborhoods buy alot of Porsches?


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Jim Wellington said:


> Do people in economically challenged neighborhoods buy alot of Porsches?


No, usually Cadillac Escalades


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## Fred Gifford (Sep 2, 2019)

1SweetRide said:


> Who could possibly be more deserving of a city of Ottawa $2.9M grant than a Porsche dealershi?
> 
> It’s not like the Arts are suffering at all.
> 
> ...


and this surprises you ?? c'mon, this is Canada we are talking about


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

zontar said:


> Well the City of Calgary paid something like 470K for this:
> View attachment 366047
> 
> Different angles:
> ...


Is that honouring the recent recognition of Annual Hula Hoop Day?


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

There is or was a Alpha Romeo dealership at that location.


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## 1SweetRide (Oct 25, 2016)

My friend's 100 year old theatre is struggling to survive. The Byward Market is now a den for drug dealers and the homeless. This is one of many incredibly thoughtless decisions this city has made under Watson's leadership. It's not like our taxes are going down. Just nuts.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

For one, it's $2.9 over 10 years. They aren't just cutting a big cheque like some seem to be thinking.

As well, this is probably a pittance compared to what this will actually cost to build. Even a Kia dealership ain't cheap to stand up. Building a "state of the art" Porsche dealership with cost more. And it will create jobs in the building.

And they WILL get it back through property taxes, and likely mostly through taxes on the dealership lot the way property values are going.

Could the money have gone to other things? Sure. But the guy in the story that says that it could have gone to roads....$2.9M doesn't buy much in the way of roads these days. But more property taxes coming in seems to get the attention of city planners.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Jim Wellington said:


> Do people in economically challenged neighborhoods buy alot of Porsches?


No - but they can mug a better clientele 😎


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Rollin Hand said:


> For one, it's $2.9 over 10 years. They aren't just cutting a big cheque like some seem to be thinking.
> 
> As well, this is probably a pittance compared to what this will actually cost to build. Even a Kia dealership ain't cheap to stand up. Building a "state of the art" Porsche dealership with cost more. And it will create jobs in the building.
> 
> ...


Why give them any break at all? Just to ensure they build there and not in a different location? No matter where they build they're inside the city limits because the limit is so far out of town. What social good will come out of a luxury car dealership? 
Imho it looks bad and makes no sense. I hope it bites them you know where in the next election cycle. And heaven help any city councilor caught driving around in a Porsche from this day on...twitter trolls will eat that up so fast.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

tomee2 said:


> Why give them any break at all? Just to ensure they build there and not in a different location? No matter where they build they're inside the city limits because the limit is so far out of town. What social good will come out of a luxury car dealership?
> Imho it looks bad and makes no sense. I hope it bites them you know where in the next election cycle. And heaven help any city councilor caught driving around in a Porsche from this day on...twitter trolls will eat that up so fast.


Why give any small or medium-sized business a break then? Or why give Amazon a break to build a behemoth in the suburbs where their workers will be driven into the ground to deliver a whole bunch of cheap crap from China? Why change zoning to allow another warehouse that will greatly increase large truck traffic in what was formerly a quiet part of town? Why do any of it?

Yeah they sell a luxury good, and it looks bad. So what? How would you feel if they were building a state of the art Chevy dealership there and got a tax break? And to be blunt, given how much a Porsche costs, if the situation was crooked, they would not be able to give out many when getting the $290K break. This isn't the southern United States for Pete's sake.

It's $290k annually out of a city budget that will exceed $3.9 BILLION for 2021. It's nothing, relatively, and it is supporting a long-time local business to stay in a rougher, more central area when they could have moved to the suburbs like their Audi franchise and so many other dealerships did.

I get it -- people are saying "why does this luxury dealership get all this money" when they could be lookin gat it as a local business getting help to expand. I just hate the immediate negativity when so many people say we need to attract jobs and investment, or want that investment to go only to businesses that they deem "appropriate."

And International Musicland was a decent store. It's Intercontinental Music that should be razed on principle!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Rollin Hand said:


> And* International Musicland* was a decent store. It's *Intercontinental Music* that should be razed on principle!


Dammit, you're right! The "Inter" messed me up. The former really was a decent store. Pity they're gone.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

mhammer said:


> Dammit, you're right! The "Inter" messed me up. The former really was a decent store. Pity they're gone.


Especially since they were a 5 min drive from my house in later years.

Weird rules though -- one wasn't allowed to use a pick when trying guitars, at least not with the boss around.


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

Rollin Hand said:


> For one, it's $2.9 over 10 years


You forgot the million.


Rollin Hand said:


> And they WILL get it back through property taxes, and likely mostly through taxes on the dealership lot the way property values are going.


Absurd logic. Property tax is used to fund communal services, not to offset government grants.

EDIT: Didn't read this quote in the article:

"The city expects to cover the grant with a major increase in property taxes at the site—from $25,627 per year to $355,619 per year—creating an estimated net gain for the city of $970,057, according to a presentation before the committee."

It doesn't make sense to me on either side of the coin. The particulars aren't discussed but if it's $2.9 million/10, then Porsche is losing money paying the increased property tax (355k-290k) vs just paying the 25k. Is the city becoming a de facto lender by using taxpayer funds to reap interest on this "grant"? I would bet someone steering that committee stands to gain from Porsche winning this grant.


Rollin Hand said:


> Could the money have gone to other things? Sure.


This is basically the fundamental argument everyone is making.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

slow push to the lock


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

will building this Porsche dealership with taxpayer money somehow reverse the affects of climate change? 

Asking for a friend......


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Rollin Hand said:


> Why give any small or medium-sized business a break then? Or why give Amazon a break to build a behemoth in the suburbs where their workers will be driven into the ground to deliver a whole bunch of cheap crap from China? Why change zoning to allow another warehouse that will greatly increase large truck traffic in what was formerly a quiet part of town? Why do any of it?
> 
> Yeah they sell a luxury good, and it looks bad. So what? How would you feel if they were building a state of the art Chevy dealership there and got a tax break? And to be blunt, given how much a Porsche costs, if the situation was crooked, they would not be able to give out many when getting the $290K break. This isn't the southern United States for Pete's sake.
> 
> ...



I pretty much agree with you and I'll admit without knowing what other tax breaks they give I shouldn't judge. But I will disagree with tax dollars having anything to do with supporting a foreign owned luxury car company that makes no cars in Canada.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

tomee2 said:


> I pretty much agree with you and I'll admit without knowing what other tax breaks they give I shouldn't judge. But I will disagree with tax dollars having anything to do with supporting a foreign owned luxury car company that makes no cars in Canada.


It’s much more about the franchise owner and I would guess a pretty fair sized staff, besides all the other stuff cars support, like insurance and licensing, not that it’s measurable to the nickel.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

crann said:


> You forgot the million.
> 
> Absurd logic. Property tax is used to fund communal services, not to offset government grants.
> 
> ...





tomee2 said:


> I pretty much agree with you and I'll admit without knowing what other tax breaks they give I shouldn't judge. But I will disagree with tax dollars having anything to do with supporting a foreign owned luxury car company that makes no cars in Canada.


Porsche isn't building: the dealership owners, the Mrak family of Ottawa, are building. Porsche probably isn't putting in anything. And they won't lose any money. 

As for the financial calculation this type of thing is the reason that governments support this type of project. If it pays off in the long run, is it not a good thing?




Lincoln said:


> will building this Porsche dealership with taxpayer money somehow reverse the affects of climate change?
> 
> Asking for a friend......


The old Mark Motors building is pretty...well, old. A new one would be built to a higher environmental standard. As well, Porsche vehicles will be all-electric in a few years. Hope your friend likes that.

And Eugene Melnyk is angry about this. That should tell you right away that this is good for the city. 😁


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Interesting piece on the matter in today's paper. Egan: Why Vanier's other car should proudly be a Porsche

Interesting point that when the Salvation Army proposed building a shelter/services-center on the same stretch of road, the neighbourhood vehemently objected. They didn't want all those ne'er-do-wells roaming around. Just no pleasing some folks, I guess.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

mhammer said:


> Interesting piece on the matter in today's paper. Egan: Why Vanier's other car should proudly be a Porsche
> 
> Interesting point that when the Salvation Army proposed building a shelter/services-center on the same stretch of road, the neighbourhood vehemently objected. They didn't want all those ne'er-do-wells roaming around. Just no pleasing some folks, I guess.


Nice to see some perspective as to what it will mean to the city and community, and that it is part of a program with actual criteria, as opposed to deciding it's wrong just because a business sells luxury goods.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Khorah said:


> Where in the city of Calgary is this located? Looks like from the pictures it's near the airport... Just curious as I used to live there!


It is on Airport Trail, just west of Deerfoot Trail.
So very near the airport.


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## oldjoat (Apr 4, 2019)

allthumbs56 said:


> Hitler gave Germany the "People's Car".
> 
> This certainly aims higher..................................


same designer for both ....


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