# Condenser mics



## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

I'm fearly new to the recording world. Have a little and simple setup at home.

SM57 -> Focusrite 6i6 -> iPad with the Aria app. I did a bunch of recording, mostly to record ideas and make them listen to jam mates.
Everything goes well until I got very frustrated at the sound I got when singing or playing acoustic (I'm no singer at all, part of the problem is my voice )

Then I discovered that mics world is as big as guitar pedals... I'm doomed!

So I'm wondering wich condenser mic you guys are using for voice and acoustic guitar?
Any hidden gem? Compagny/models I should check/avoid?

Thanks!


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

It is not what microphone you use but what type of microphone to use and how/where do you place them. 
This article helped me understand that and IMHO it is basically all we (guitarists) need to know about acoustic guitar recording:

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/20790-diy-how-to-mic-your-acoustic-like-a-pro

If you want my opinion on gems at plain sight I would say the AT 2020/2035. I have the Scarlett 6i6 too, the preamps are outstanding (Focusrite was founded by Rupert Neve and that means something) also the in/out count is more than enough for guitar recordings. 

Best, 

Andrei


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Relating recording to taking a photograph....

the interface is the camera body

the microphone is the lens

the room is the lighting

Don't expect miracles from microphones. Without proper room treatment and careful placement a good microphone may not do you any favours.

IMO the most important aspects of capturing a good recording, in order of importance...

1) Performer
2) Instrument (voice and/or guitar)
3) Room
4) Mic placement
5) Mic choice
6) Interface/preamp


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

I had the AT2020 and liked it, but I moved on to an Apex 460 tube condenser. I'm running it nearly stock (changed the tube to lower-gain AY or AT, can't recall), but many use it as a starting point and upgrade it in bits to get it to rival some very expensive mics. For my purposes, it sounds fantastic as-is.


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## avalancheMM (Jan 21, 2009)

The AT4040 is a really great mic for around $400, the Bluebird Spark is, in my opinion, an absolute bargain at $200, both are good at lots of things , I have used both for guitar amps, acoustics, and vocals, decent results. Just my two cents,

Regards


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

ronmac said:


> Relating recording to taking a photograph....
> the interface is the camera body
> the microphone is the lens
> the room is the lighting
> ...


This! A cheap condensor in a well treated room will sound better than a high end condensor in an untreated room. Put some of your budget towards treating the room. Decent condensor mics can be found used for as low as $100.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

The AT2020 is a very good choice for a first condensor mic. You can find good ones used for ~$80, so for not a lot of money you can scratch the itch. I keep a couple in the locker to use when I don't want to risk an expensive mic in a situation where a clumsy client with a low budget wants to see a "bigger mic".


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

I also recommend the AT4040. But as already mentioned, it depends on the application.


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

There's some really great suggestions here! Thanks everyone.

Since I don't have alot of control on the room, I'm living in a apartment, how can I improve it?


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## Noise Supply (May 31, 2013)

Ti-Ron said:


> Since I don't have alot of control on the room, I'm living in a apartment, how can I improve it?


Uncovered drywall and other hard surfaces (glass, tile, etc) are your enemy. If you don't have a tuned room (most of us don't), you want to minimize reflections from these surfaces, especially if the room is small. You can buy acoustic foam, etc., which works great but can add up quick. The best bang for the buck is moving blankets. If you can score some free/cheap than do it. I keep a stack of them (and sometimes I even use them for moving furniture) - the frequency absorption to cost ratio cannot be beaten. They may not look great, but they are portable and cheap. Hang them up on the walls around you, or build a tent around the thing you're recording - lots of studios use temporary tents of moving blankets around guitar amps when recording in a "live off the floor" scenario (ie no budget or desire for overdubs), and you want to minimize the guitar amp bleeding into the drum mics (and vice versa).

When you don't have a great sounding space (again, most of us don't) you want to minimize reflections as much as possible (no comb filtering, or natural reverb or slapback), and then add artificial reverb later to restore a (much better) sense of space.

As for condensors, I like Neumann - I haven't heard a bad Neumann, the cheaper ones sound great too, but even the cheaper ones can easily be out of a lot of people's budget. I haven't used much Rode mics, but I have liked what I've heard. An AKG 214 might be in your budget. Years ago, I used to love the AKG 414 (before hearing Neumanns), so I bought a 214, which is supposed to be the same mic but a lot cheaper because it only comes in a non-switchable cardioid pattern. However I don't like the response or noise-floor of mine, but there could also be something wrong with mine. My 214 got zapped by a defective Apogee interface's phanom power right out of the box. AKG fixed it, and I should believe them, but I just don't like it.

I notice people suggesting the AT4040. A solid performer, however it's a little "dark" for my liking.

One thing you might want to look for is a pair of condensers within your budget (matched or just a pair is fine) rather than one condensor. Whether they are small or large diaphragm condensors - having a stereo pair is great for stereo mic'ing an acoustic guitar to bring some depth and excitement to the acoustic guitar, especially when it is singer songwriter stuff with not a lot going on in a mix.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

The Sennheiser MK4 doesn't have any bells & whistles (fixed omni polar pattern, no HPF or pad, hard case) but it's made alongside much higher priced mics in the Neumann factory. A great condenser for $299. I'm spoiled by having U87s at work but for home use on a budget the MK4 was my choice.

To the best of my knowledge the MK4 and the aforementioned AKG C214 are the only microphones in this price range that aren't made in China.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Correction: The MK4 is a single diaphragm with a cardioid pickup pattern.



hardasmum said:


> The Sennheiser MK4 doesn't have any bells & whistles (fixed omni polar pattern, no HPF or pad, hard case) but it's made alongside much higher priced mics in the Neumann factory. A great condenser for $299. I'm spoiled by having U87s at work but for home use on a budget the MK4 was my choice.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge the MK4 and the aforementioned AKG C214 are the only microphones in this price range that aren't made in China.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

ronmac said:


> Correction: The MK4 is a single diaphragm with a cardioid pickup pattern.


Thank you. That's what happens when I'm typing on a train and don't hit the delete button enough times.

I wanted to say "fixed polar pattern"


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Noise Supply said:


> Uncovered drywall and other hard surfaces (glass, tile, etc) are your enemy. If you don't have a tuned room (most of us don't), you want to minimize reflections from these surfaces, especially if the room is small. You can buy acoustic foam, etc., which works great but can add up quick. *The best bang for the buck is moving blankets.* If you can score some free/cheap than do it. I keep a stack of them (and sometimes I even use them for moving furniture) - the frequency absorption to cost ratio cannot be beaten. They may not look great, but they are portable and cheap. Hang them up on the walls around you, or build a tent around the thing you're recording - lots of studios use temporary tents of moving blankets around guitar amps when recording in a "live off the floor" scenario (ie no budget or desire for overdubs), and you want to minimize the guitar amp bleeding into the drum mics (and vice versa).
> 
> When you don't have a great sounding space (again, most of us don't) you want to minimize reflections as much as possible (no comb filtering, or natural reverb or slapback), and then add artificial reverb later to restore a (much better) sense of space.


Very interesting and helpful information!

Who would have thought that the rather sad looking moving blanket could be such a good solution to this problem.

Thanks.

Cheers

Dave


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

I keep at least 4 moving blankets in my truck at all times for solving reflection issues. You can sometimes get them on sale at Princess Auto for $10.

They really proved their worth a couple of weeks ago when we were shooting in an old school hallway with tile floors and walls and, to make matters worse, a 2 foot square sheet metal heating plenum running the full length along the ceiling. I clamped a couple of blankets to the plenum and dropped a couple more on the floor out of the shot. Night and day difference in how I was able to capture the dialogue. They are also very effective when clipped to boom stands when doing instrumental recordings in a lively space.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

ronmac said:


> .... You can sometimes get them on sale at Princess Auto for $10.


I was wondering where they could be purchased.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Here's a link.... http://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/72-x-80-in-moving-blanket/A-p8431181e


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

hardasmum said:


> To the best of my knowledge the MK4 and the aforementioned AKG C214 are the only microphones in this price range that aren't made in China.


Rode designs and manufactures their mics in house in Australia. More good options under $300. I picked up an NT1 last year during boxing week for $250 new. Great little mic and it comes with a Rycote Lyre shock mount and pop filter.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

I use a vocal shield to cut down on room reflections. It works pretty well. I use it on guitar amps as well.


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

I've been around high end mics and studios off and on for the better part of 35 years.
I recently purchased one of these.....for the price??
A big thumbs up..
http://www.parts-express.com/audio-technica-at2035-cardioid-condenser-microphone--242-4152


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

https://youtu.be/7QabVmUxoSY


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## jbealsmusic (Feb 12, 2014)

loudtubeamps said:


> I've been around high end mics and studios off and on for the better part of 35 years.
> I recently purchased one of these.....for the price??
> A big thumbs up..
> http://www.parts-express.com/audio-technica-at2035-cardioid-condenser-microphone--242-4152


If it is half as good as the 4047 I had years ago, it should be an excellent mic. But jeez, USD$149 is expensive. You can find these all over Canada for CAD$200 or less.



amagras said:


> [video=youtube;7QabVmUxoSY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QabVmUxoSY[/video]


I built one of those a while back, but it certainly didn't work for me. The foam is not particularly good at reducing any frequencies under around 1K, so I ended up with all kinds of funky reflections below that. You can even hear it in the video.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

jbealsmusic said:


> I built one of those a while back, but it certainly didn't work for me. The foam is not particularly good at reducing any frequencies under around 1K, so I ended up with all kinds of funky reflections below that. You can even hear it in the video.


Thanks jbealsmusic for the heads up!!


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

*jbealsmusic* 







*Canada's Parts Source**Feedback Score 3 (100%)*


Join DateFeb 2014LocationNepean, ONPosts415Post Thanks / Like ​

[h=2]Re: Condenser mics[/h]







Originally Posted by *loudtubeamps* 
I've been around high end mics and studios off and on for the better part of 35 years.
I recently purchased one of these.....for the price??
A big thumbs up..
http://www.parts-express.com/audio-t...hone--242-4152



If it is half as good as the 4047 I had years ago, it should be an excellent mic. But jeez, USD$149 is expensive. You can find these all over Canada for CAD$200 or less.

No worries, the link I pulled up was something I had in my bookmarks. My recent purchase for the mic., maybe not so recent, how time flies. T'was when our $$ was pretty much on par with theirs. I think I was ordering a few things from parts express at the time so shipping wasn't too stupid either. Anywhooo..... yeah, a very good mic. for the money......no dropping it or blowing on the diaphragm.....please. ​


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## Noise Supply (May 31, 2013)

A project I'm working on today, made me think of this thread.









Moving blankets: When your best option is to record something in a bathroom, but you don't want it to sound "like a bathroom."


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

I love moving blankets, I have projected an isolation box for the basement though, I already have my sm57 ready.

Is that a bass drum Noise Supply? Can't see much in the picture


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## Noise Supply (May 31, 2013)

amagras said:


> Is that a bass drum Noise Supply? Can't see much in the picture


It's actually nothing musical - it's actually a bathroom sink. Moving blankets all over the walls, shower door, counter, mirror, etc.

I needed to record *coughing/vomiting up blood while dying* sound effects for a horror film. The blood was supposed to hit a hard surface, so the sink worked. I didn't want to do it into a plastic or metal bucket, because the splatter sound wouldn't be right. And I didn't want to make a mess anywhere else inside, nor want to open myself up to recording something detailed in an outdoor environment. So the bathroom was the best option - I just had to get rid of the "bathroom sound."


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

hardasmum said:


> I use a vocal shield to cut down on room reflections. It works pretty well. I use it on guitar amps as well.


Ho, this is interessing!
Thanks for the head up!


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