# FAILED setups...your story?



## patski (Feb 7, 2018)

I've never owned an offset, and even though I spent months researching and reading, the one thing I didn't do was look up someone who knows how to setup offsets. PROPERLY.

I do not want to mention names. I will say however, that I am slightly embarrassed to admit that I've had two setups done on my JM and I wasn't entirely happy with either. As a newb, even I know that. Because now I know what is done during a setup and what to look for. I did not go back to shop # 1. I could have, but dude immediately announced my guitar had the wrong bridge on it (it doesn't) and I was kind of in shock that I knew something he didn't, LOL 

After setup #1, I had to scramble home because the weather was turning foul and my son had to be picked up from school. But when I got home, I checked intonation and it was completely off. And something was wonky with my g string sounding dead. Not flat, just doesn't ring out like the other strings, no sustain, sounds dull, very much dead.

Setup # 2, got NEW strings put on, g string still sounds dead and dull, e and a strings still buzzing somewhat. Messaged dude on FB, he gave me a suggestion. It didn't help. I replied. He's not replying now. -_- 

I got fed up and decided to carefully follow the guide on offset.guitars and do it myself. 

I did a damn good job. But then, as usual, I kept tweaking and mucked things up again, so now tweaking again, but now I know roughly what to do!

I still think I want a Staytrem bridge, as the spacing is correct, as opposed to the Mustang bridge on this particular JM. I'm now starting to think there's something wrong with this particular saddle. But I digress.

Also, being female in this gig/hobby is tough and you can't come off knowing more than other people, because you know, you don't 

As I've since read on many sites (including this one) I'm shocked to see how few setups include HAVING YOU PLAY YOUR OWN GUITAR FIRST. You'd think that'd...be...I dunno.....standard? Isn't that common sense?

Do you have a FAILED setup story? Was it a shop you've only heard good things about? What did you do about it? Did you go back and raise hell or say eff it and go elsewhere? Or learn to do it yourself?

I know there's a lot of longtime players here, so I'm curious to hear your stories!


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I made the mistake of taking a guitar to a pretty well known Music store in Canada and was very unhappy with the "setup". Great idea to take it on yourself . Now you actually have something else to compare a "pro" setup to. It's not frikkin rocket science like some would have you believe. Just takes a bit of time and patience.


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## Fuzzy dagger (Jun 3, 2016)

I haven't taken an axe for a set up in years. There's so much you can do with a few inexpensive tools and a YouTube video. You need the right amount of caution/fearlessness. It also helps to establish an order of battle, ie., check the nut and saddle before committing to a neck reset.


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## patski (Feb 7, 2018)

I've seen a few people suggest one ought to file the slots on their nut of a Jazzmaster if you have heavier gauge strings.

I put 10s on mine. Not sure it's necessary...?

Yup, couple of screwdrivers...a straight edge....I may pop into an art store just to get something longer than an 8" ruler. Amazon has a string gauge "card" that looks like it'd be useful instead of trying to read mm off a ruler.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I wasn't aware that a setup on an offset was any different than a setup on any other guitar.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I've been playing since age 13, 34 years. I can't remember ever having a "bad setup" story for a guitar. I've had some setups that I haven't been impressed with, such as nut slots not cut to my liking or action not as low as I had asked. Going back about 25 years I had Mike Spicer from Peghead set up my guitars then Seppo O. Valjakka owner of Frankenstein guitars until he moved to the Dominican Republic and since then I take all my guitars to Folkway who is my favorite of anyone I've ever had set up my guitars. 
To the OP, I would highly recommend Folkway. Its worth the drive.


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## jimmy c g (Jan 1, 2008)

Ive had several acoustic set ups requesting saddle adjustments and both were set to low- now I do my own saddles


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## patski (Feb 7, 2018)

guitarman2, I've read nothing but good things about Folkway and Mike Spicer 

I'm learning to do this on my own, but now I know I have personal recommendations for several folks!


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2018)

My experiences with "luthiers" has not been great. I got to the point I would sell my guitar when it needed a fret dressing / refret and buy a new (used) fresh one. I need work done every 3-9 months on my main player. I think I am going to spend $500 on some tools so I can do the work myself. Fret and nut files, straight edges, radius sanding blocks, etc.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

patski said:


> guitarman2, I've read nothing but good things about Folkway and Mike Spicer
> 
> I'm learning to do this on my own, but now I know I have personal recommendations for several folks!


Like you I contemplated learning how to do advanced setups my self but so far haven't gotten around to it. I'd have to buy some inexpensive guitars to learn on. I have 3 main guitars that between them I've got about 16k in to. I'm very finicky about my setups so I definitely leave them up to the professionals. Although I'm looking at retirement in about 7 years so I wouldn't mind having a hobby for then and setting up guitars would fit nicely.
If there was a decent course for not too much money I'd definitely take it.
I just received a custom pickguard that I ordered for my Tele. I think I'll put that on my self.


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## cdntac (Oct 11, 2017)

Learning how to set up a guitar is pretty easy.

A little practice and some common sense is all it takes.

You just have to learn how adjustment A affects B, adjustment B affects C, etc. 

Dan Erlewine has some great books on this.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

cdntac said:


> Learning how to set up a guitar is pretty easy.
> 
> A little practice and some common sense is all it takes.
> 
> ...


What I'd like to learn is how to do a proper neck reset incase either one of my Martin authentics ever need it. Not something I'd ever try to self learn.


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## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

I've had setups where details were overlooked. Not sure I'd call them FAILS but I did not feel I got my money's worth. Brad at Shyboy & Tex is my current favourite. Every guitar comes home beautifully set up.

I had a second hand bad experience with one of the places mentioned above. They worked on a Ric between my 1st and 2nd visits when buying. I didn't pay close attention on the 2nd visit, and when I got home I found the guitar was unplayable. The high E was going sideways right off the fret board. I couldn't believe they would let it leave the shop like that. I took the Ric elsewhere to be fixed. By many accounts, he is a top notch luthier, but I'll never use him now. YMMV.


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## Ronbeast (Nov 11, 2008)

I started doing my own setups roughly a month after I started playing.

It was the first time I changed strings. Small town, no guitar shop, no reputable techs in the area. I was lucky, my family has a lot of tradesmen, and old school techniques, so tools and ideas were never hard to come by.

I’ve done so many setups at this point that I would never even consider leaving my guitars at a shop now; I can do everything they can, plus I can do it cheaper and I enjoy the process.

It’s really not rocket science, but I recommend learning on a hardtail first; save a floating trem for your second attempt.


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## AlBDarned (Jun 29, 2017)

Basic Set-up Instructions | stewmac.com

Good source for quality tools & books / free info, vids etc., if you're not already familiar with Stewmac. Not the cheapest, but good quality.


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2018)

Welcome to the forum patski.
Sounds like you have a handle on the basics.
I do my own too. Youtube is a great resource. You can find guitar specific too.
I tell players that once you understand the concept, it's not too difficult to do your own.

Regarding your problem with the saddles. Could be loose saddle screws that are rattling?
Just don't try to fix it like this guy. lol.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

I bought a limited edition Epiphone Les Paul Silverburst back in 06 from a reputable, national retailer here in Canada. It played pretty good right out of the box, but could have been a bit better. They have "free set-ups" within the first year, so at about the 10 month mark, I thought, ya, OK, I'll get it "fixed". When I dropped it off, I told the guy what I was looking for, he assured me, "Don't worry, we'll set it to Gibson's specs". I left kinda wondering.... shouldn't it have been _shipped_ with those??
2 weeks later I got the call, so I went to pick it up, and HATED IT! I asked the guy what he did?? He said, "Gibson specs!" I said "it plays worse now than when I dropped it off". He replied, "But that is spec". When I said "Put it back" he told me "any alterations now would not be included in the original price, and set-ups start at $95! I'd like to think I showed restraint and _didn't_ tell him what he could do with his set-up, but that was 12yrs ago, so I'm not sure I did.

What I _did_ do, was drive straight from Toronto to Guelph, and dropped it off at Folkway music (which is now located in Waterloo). On the phone, Mark wasn't sure if they could actually do anything, but once I opened the case, he shook his head and said, "Give me a week". 

It still plays like a dream!

Folkway are the only techs to touch my guitars!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I can adjust my own action, intonation and truss rod. I don't have the desire to do anything else myself.

I have the worst luck with pickup swaps though.


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## James (Jul 3, 2007)

I never realized there was something called an offset guitar! Turns out I own a couple! Cool! Regarding luthiers, set ups etc...I've definitely had work done that made me think "that was a waste of money" - However, these days here in Kelowna BC we have the luthier Gary Norris - once Gary has waved his hands over your instrument it just sings like never before! I notice Gary usually carves a new bone nut when he does a set up - to me this makes a world of difference. Not everyone agrees. There is also a luthier named Ted Thompson in our area - Ted has the same magic hands as Gary. As I'm not adept in the fine art of guitar set ups, I rely on these kind of artists to keep the instrument in perfect playing shape. Once you find a good one, keep them!
As drummer Neil Peart says in one of his drum videos, miking drums is an art unto itself - he leaves that to the techs and just concentrates on playing the instrument! Kind of my personal approach to playing the guitar .... that said, kudo's to all the players that can do set-up work too.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

JBFairthorne said:


> I wasn't aware that a setup on an offset was any different than a setup on any other guitar.


The trem throws most folks off; people don't realise there's a trem lock there for example or how to adjust the spring. Aside from that, one reputable setup guide is as good as another, and the one on offsetguiotars is a good one if memory serves.

As for me, took a vintage 79 Gibson RD Artist bass in for a refret. Dude said it would be done in a week. The day it's supposed to be done he calls me to ask if it's OK to break the nut cuz he can't get it out. I say sure just replace it. He says that'll be $30. I refuse that on principle; already a $200 job, late, and they're gonna charge me full rate of a stand alone nut job cuz he doesn't know what he's doing (shoulda been a red flag, but back in the day and I didn't know better). The call ends. He calls me back a few minutes later that me managed it.

A few days later I pick it up. He hands it to me across the counter and all looks good. Take it home and realise how he got the nut out. On the bottom (treble) side he pried under the nut with a screwdriver to pop it off, gouging/compressing the wood on the most expensive instrument I had ever owned up to that point, and a vintage out of prod one too (like, didn't the idjit ever hear of using a red robbie and a hammer to tap it out from the side?). That's why he handed to to me so careful like that, with the damage facing him not me. I had already took it home so couldn't complain cuz I knew that mofo would just say I did it after leaving the shop. I did go back to call him a piece of shit to his face tho.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

i have been doing my own set ups for years. the only time i ever had a problem was with my ar325. for some reason, the unwound strings would not sustain as they should. try as i might, i could not correct it. i took it back to steve''s where i bought it. they fixed it while i browsed the store. i have no idea what he did that i didn't do. it's the only time i ever had that problem.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

The only real bad setup job I've had done would have to be on my Gibson Advanced Jumbo. I ordered the guitar from L&M and when it arrived the nut slots were too high, I wasn't going to drive 7-8 hours one way for a setup so I called a tech I knew. He filed the slots too low, gouged the headstock with the nutfile, replaced the nut with one that had the spacing all over the place and finally adjusted the compensation on the bridge to match his new nut. I ended up making the trip after but not to L&M (who wanted $230+tax + strings for a bone nut and saddle) but to Reid Music where Darryl Chafe brought my first great acoustic back to life.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I’ve always done my own setups starting from when I was in grade 7 or 8 and I’ve kinda got better at it over the years ... lol

However, I don’t do enough of them to justify buying slot files although you can use tip cleaners or even grind down hacksaw blades or even use a wound string as a file which I’ve done.

Anyway, I’ve had two of the free purchase setups done: one at the 12th fret on an HD35 a few years ago and the second at Cosmo a few days ago on my telecaster.

Both involved, inter alia, taking the nut slots down and both setups were done while I was standing there. Both of them all turned out real good and they were done by dudes who knew what they were doing and been at it 40 years.

The 12th fret is generally well regarded and in my experience the cosmo shop is staffed by good people too. 

Moreover, I was expecting that the Tele might need to be plek’d for which they could have charged me $200 or more but the tech guy at Cosmo just said no, he could clean it up with a setup but if I wanted to later they could plain the frets from the 12th toward the bridge for bends. 

My Gibsons are clean all over the board but apparently fenders sometimes need to be plained past the 12th - I may have described the plaining part of it inaccurately but that’s the gist of it.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Pretty much the only things I don't do (anymore) are fret dressings and re-frets. I'm not that practiced at it and there's a a great guy (Josh House) in my neighbourhood that does a superb job of them. I make the odd nut, but House will also do them and better than me.

The rest of the set up requirements are easy, been doing them since I was a teenager.


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## patski (Feb 7, 2018)

laristotle said:


> Regarding your problem with the saddles. Could be loose saddle screws that are rattling?
> Just don't try to fix it like this guy. lol.


Thanks laristotle! 

"drop some goo in there"

Holy Jesus, this made me cringe, LOL

It's a Mustang bridge, so the only screws are the intonation screws. It could be that too though, as the g string has been pretty finicky when I've intonated it. Intonated. I made up a word, LOL


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## TTHX (May 24, 2013)

I've only sent my guitar to a place to get setup by someone else once. Good thing was he asked me what I wanted/preferred (light touch vs heavy etc). Still didn't come out great though. Like others I'd suggest just learning the basics. Sometimes the tools are stupid expensive but worth it in the end.
I'd also recommend the Staytrem bridge. It's amazing. Really high quality and you won't have any bridge issues again (if set up properly).


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## Ronbeast (Nov 11, 2008)

Morkolo said:


> The only real bad setup job I've had done would have to be on my Gibson Advanced Jumbo. I ordered the guitar from L&M and when it arrived the nut slots were too high, I wasn't going to drive 7-8 hours one way for a setup so I called a tech I knew. He filed the slots too low, gouged the headstock with the nutfile, replaced the nut with one that had the spacing all over the place and finally adjusted the compensation on the bridge to match his new nut. I ended up making the trip after but not to L&M (who wanted $230+tax + strings for a bone nut and saddle) but to Reid Music where Darryl Chafe brought my first great acoustic back to life.


Darryl at Reid music is the man. When I was learning setups early on, I used to bounce questions off of him. There’s no job he won’t tackle.

7-8hr drive would place you somewhere around Cornerbrook, right? That’s where I’m currently living, originally from Placentia down on the Avalon peninsula.


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## patski (Feb 7, 2018)

TTHX,

I'm definitely considering the Staytrem bridge!


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I've done all my own set ups for years, and for a few other guys too. I set up to manufacturers specs unless I am told otherwise, and I always ask. As for things coming back, I have had 1 come back that I needed to remake a nut that he didn't like the string spacing on. The bridge threw me off as it was not the correct spacing as the original. Every one I do I put in writing that if they don't like something, bring it back within 30 days and I will correct it free. That takes care of anyone who likes them set up a bit differently and I miss their mark a little.

This one was my fail on the nut:


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Wardo said:


> I’ve always done my own setups starting from when I was in grade 7 or 8 and I’ve kinda got better at it over the years ... lol
> 
> However, I don’t do enough of them to justify buying slot files although you can use tip cleaners or even grind down hacksaw blades or even *use a wound string as a file* which I’ve done.


Yep; that's what I usually do.


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## John Fisher (Aug 6, 2017)

I sent mine in to a store that I wont mention(cause they are great, the place they send it to not). It came back a mess. From watching Youtube I started watching a guy in Toronto video all his repair work. I said screw it, drove to Toronto, and had him go over all of it. What a mess it was. I got slagged by everyone in the comments since they assumed I did it myself. Even I could not have screwed that much up on it.
He did a great job at a great price and now since it is a maple neck if I leave it out with the temperature changes, I made a .012 thou shim build up at work for adjusting my truss rod and I am good to go till I get some bad fret wear. Takes 2 minutes to adjust. 
Get it done properly and then Youtube should give you easy maintenance for it


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

John Fisher said:


> From watching Youtube I started watching a guy in Toronto video all his repair work.


Dave Reaume, Dave's World of Fun Stuff? I watch him all the time. He does some neat work on some cool guitars and is pretty funny as well.


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## John Fisher (Aug 6, 2017)

Correct. I have nothing but very good things to say about him and his work. PLUS he does some very good work for the War Amps which is a great charity to support. So anybody please support them by buying some stickers. Very Canadian humour


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I've never had a guitar I owned setup except two 12 strings, I modified and turned into 6 string guitars. One was an electric and one was an acoustic. I've done any other adjustments myself and was always happy with the results.


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## Jimi D (Oct 27, 2008)

IME, there are some great luthiers and guitar techs out there, there are a lot of “competent” ones, and there are a lot of hacks that blow a lot of smoke. Figuring out who’s what can be a frustrating and costly process. 

As others have said, most of what’s involved in a setup isn’t rocket surgery, and I do all the basics (truss rod, intonation, action,etc) myself, but I leave the nut and frets to someone with the tools and experience, and nowadays I pay someone for electronics work because I’m sick of solder and don’t care if I never hold another iron as long as I live. 

Fortunately, we have Ian Weston in Ottawa, and he’s as good as they come imo; meticulous, precise, knowledgeable and passionate about the work - and he can work wonders with his Plek machine.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I was starting to get a bow in the neck & was a bit unsure about adjusting it myself.
I had a friend who usually did that stuff for me, but he was unavailable.
So, I had one done at a store & I said the action is where I like it--don't lower it--but guess what?
They did.
I mentioned that after I got it back & that the action was too low.
So the guy takes back the guitar and pus a bow in the neck.
Doesn't raise the bridge to where it was.

Now this was a free set up as a promo at a local store--so I am getting what I paid for & more...
Rather than argue with him I just took the guitar, got Dan Erlewine's book & practice on my LP copy.
Then I put the bridge back where I like it & adjusted the neck & the intonation--and it played just how I wanted it to.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Ronbeast said:


> Darryl at Reid music is the man. When I was learning setups early on, I used to bounce questions off of him. There’s no job he won’t tackle.
> 
> 7-8hr drive would place you somewhere around Cornerbrook, right? That’s where I’m currently living, originally from Placentia down on the Avalon peninsula.


20 minutes away in Pasadena to be exact. It was a long drive but worth it because he does great work. It's just too bad there's no one local like that, each store in Corner Brook from what I remember had a tech but they're skills usually end at a truss rod adjustment.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

I fortunately met an excellent luthier in Rimouski while I used to live there. He took great care of my axes but, most of all, would kindly discuss the issues and the setup options I had to consider. He was very generous explaining how he would work so that I learned how to setup my axes by myself. I now even change bone nuts and saddles when I need to.


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## Ronbeast (Nov 11, 2008)

Morkolo said:


> 20 minutes away in Pasadena to be exact. It was a long drive but worth it because he does great work. It's just too bad there's no one local like that, each store in Corner Brook from what I remember had a tech but they're skills usually end at a truss rod adjustment.


I’ve only had one run in with the bigger music store in Corner Brook; I wouldn’t feel confident leaving my guitar there. The prices they were asking for beat up instruments left a bad taste in my mouth and gave me the vibe that they were just out to gouge customers who don’t know any better. 

The shop owner seems like a really nice guy, but first impressions mean a lot to me, and they didn’t instill confidence when I was there.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I always did my own setups but one day years back I decided to treat myself to a "real setup" for two of my electrices. I took them to Songbird on Queen St. A week later I got the call that they were ready. I went in all excited and took the guitars out of their cases. The string height was insane. So high off the fret board. I was so disappointed. I expressed my displeasure and they agreed to do it again basically. Another week went by and I went in and there was really no change. I got pretty pissed at this point and got the manager involved. I don't remember exactly what happened but I think there was some discount involved and I left disappointed. Have never really trusted anyone to set up my guitars again.


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## Morkolo (Dec 9, 2010)

Ronbeast said:


> I’ve only had one run in with the bigger music store in Corner Brook; I wouldn’t feel confident leaving my guitar there. The prices they were asking for beat up instruments left a bad taste in my mouth and gave me the vibe that they were just out to gouge customers who don’t know any better.
> 
> The shop owner seems like a really nice guy, but first impressions mean a lot to me, and they didn’t instill confidence when I was there.


I wouldn't leave anything there if we're thinking on the same place. I dropped off a power supply to be replaced and a new mandolin case that was too small for my teardrop style in 2012, both purchased new in the store and haven't seen either since.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I take my guitars I want setup to Fred at Freddie's frets. It's a bit of cash, but I find setting up to be a bit of a chore. I don't mind swapping strings but intonating is like watching paint dry. I'll bet it takes Fred 20 minutes what would take me all day to do.


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

I took a guitar to a local store...fret buzz and wanted a new nut...they called two days later...previous owner spent all their time on the first three frets and wore them down, and the rest are fine...so...either a complete re-fret, or live with some buzz (which is what I decided, re-fret would be more than guitar is worth)

I get it home...plug it in...nothing happens...I take the control panel off the back...and all of the wiring was missing...I was like WTF??
so I put it back together..and a couple days later when I had composed myself, I stopped back in...I got an 'oh, that's right...it looked wonky so I started to rewire it and obviously forgot to put it back together, sorry about that' -- there was no 'can I make it up?' nothing...I said, I didn't ask you to touch the wiring, so I don't know why you did...
never mind the fact that...how do you put it back together and not notice that its not 'together'??
I don't shop there anymore


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

JBFairthorne said:


> I wasn't aware that a setup on an offset was any different than a setup on any other guitar.


This.
Edit. After reading the first post it seems the problem isnt with the luthier, it's with the owner.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

ezcomes said:


> I took a guitar to a local store...fret buzz and wanted a new nut...they called two days later...previous owner spent all their time on the first three frets and wore them down, and the rest are fine...so...either a complete re-fret, or live with some buzz (which is what I decided, re-fret would be more than guitar is worth)
> 
> I get it home...plug it in...nothing happens...I take the control panel off the back...and all of the wiring was missing...I was like WTF??
> so I put it back together..and a couple days later when I had composed myself, I stopped back in...I got an 'oh, that's right...it looked wonky so I started to rewire it and obviously forgot to put it back together, sorry about that' -- there was no 'can I make it up?' nothing...I said, I didn't ask you to touch the wiring, so I don't know why you did...
> ...


Wow.


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## AlBDarned (Jun 29, 2017)

TDeneka said:


> This.
> Edit. After reading the first post it seems the problem isnt with the luthier, it's with the owner.


I think she was just mistakenly using the term 'offset' to refer to the bridge type on her guitar. Assuming the other symptoms she described are correct, if I was to get a guitar back from a setup that's buzzing & not intonated with dead strings, I'd have a problem with the luthier as well.


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

AlBDarned said:


> I think she was just mistakenly using the term 'offset' to refer to the bridge type on her guitar. Assuming the other symptoms she described are correct, if I was to get a guitar back from a setup that's buzzing & not intonated with dead strings, I'd have a problem with the luthier as well.


I'd agree with you if she meant that, but even if she did it would be irrelevant. Worst thing is that first luthier told her she had the wrong bridge on her guitar, to which her response was a condescending "I know more than you about this."
She continued on to tell her story to which she eventually admitted her bridge has the wrong spacing.
"I still think I want a Staytrem bridge, as the spacing is correct, as opposed to the Mustang bridge on this particular JM."
All of the symptoms she described such as dead sounding strings and buzzing could easily be attributed to wrong string spacing from a bridge, indicative of the first luthier telling her she had a problem but instead of heeding his advice, chose to ignore it for whatever reason.


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## AlBDarned (Jun 29, 2017)

Aha, you clearly read the original post more carefully than I did. That post clearly does leave a few loose ends hanging on whether her bridge is compatible, whether the first luthier was correct in their initial indication that it wasn't, etc etc etc.... I'd say more info required before making any conclusions, but you may be right.


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

AlBDarned said:


> Aha, you clearly read the original post more carefully than I did. That post clearly does leave a few loose ends hanging on whether her bridge is compatible, whether the first luthier was correct in their initial indication that it wasn't, etc etc etc.... I'd say more info required before making any conclusions, but you may be right.


I actually had to reread it once that quote came up so you're not alone!


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## oheare (Jun 18, 2012)

Some years ago I brought a kind of oddball guitar to a local shop for some work. It was a Steinberger Spirit 6+4 doubleneck, needed a fret leveling and dress and full setup on both necks. When I got it back, it was tuned *way* sharp, like above F# instead of to E. The guy who did the work kinda melted down when I griped, and started yelling that he would take no responsibility for anything when I started to tune it back to normal.

Turned out that tuned to normal pitch the guitar was unplayable (I don't remember the details, tried to block the bad memory). I'd already paid (my bad), and couldn't stand the noise, so I left with the guitar (my bad 2). I talked to his boss later (don't know where boss was on the day), he told me to bring it in and he'd make it good. I did, the guitar got returned to me in playable condition (not exquisite, which it should've been for what I was charged, but okay). I was satisfied, but the whole thing left such a bad taste in my mouth that I never really bonded with the guitar and sold it some time later. And all this from a shop that's promoting itself as a purveyor of high-end instruments.

So yes, setup failure on both parties' parts. *#*(


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## Ronbeast (Nov 11, 2008)

I’m a garage/woodshed hack when it comes to my... methods, but at least I’m forthright about it. 

I’ve never charged a cent for a setup, as I’m not a business. I only really do setups on friends’ instruments, so the deal is they supply the strings and the beer. 

For me, personally, I’d lose sleep knowing that I sent someone home with an instrument that plays worse than when they brought it in. How these “techs” try to get away with hiding their mistakes all while smiling and holding out their hands, it makes me sick.

I truly feel bad for all of the people in this thread who’ve had these experiences; These things would never be allowed to happen in my garage.


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## patski (Feb 7, 2018)

TDeneka said:


> I'd agree with you if she meant that, but even if she did it would be irrelevant. Worst thing is that first luthier told her she had the wrong bridge on her guitar, to which her response was a condescending "I know more than you about this."
> She continued on to tell her story to which she eventually admitted her bridge has the wrong spacing.
> "I still think I want a Staytrem bridge, as the spacing is correct, as opposed to the Mustang bridge on this particular JM."
> All of the symptoms she described such as dead sounding strings and buzzing could easily be attributed to wrong string spacing from a bridge, indicative of the first luthier telling her she had a problem but instead of heeding his advice, chose to ignore it for whatever reason.


I actually never told the person at shop # 1 to his face that he was incorrect. It was said in my head. What I said in my post was: "..dude immediately announced my guitar had the wrong bridge on it (it doesn't) and I was kind of in shock that I knew something he didn't, LOL"

I spent months researching Jazzmasters as well as Jaguars, and played numerous different models before deciding on this one in particular. So, yes I actually *did* know something this person did not.

Secondly, the Troy Van Leeuwen Jazzmaster comes with a Mustang bridge. This is not incorrect. It is standard on this particular model. Troy wanted the Mastery as standard, but those folks cannot churn out quite that many. Mustang bridge, it is. So, he was factually incorrect when he exclaimed "This is the wrong bridge! Take it back to Long & McQuade where you bought it and demand they exchange it".

If memory serves me correctly, the Mustang bridge puts the strings at somewhere between 55mm and 56mm apart, when they are supposed to be 52mm from e to e. Hence the decision to eventually upgrade the bridge to a Staytrem.

If there was no need for a specific guide for JM/Jaguars, then this wouldn't exist.

Setup for Jaguar and Jazzmaster « The Goodies « Fender's Jazzmaster & Jaguar – The Higher Evolution of Offset-Waist Guitars

Thanks for your overall rude and condescending post. You proved my point.


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

patski said:


> I actually never told the person at shop # 1 to his face that he was incorrect. It was said in my head. What I said in my post was: "..dude immediately announced my guitar had the wrong bridge on it (it doesn't) and I was kind of in shock that I knew something he didn't, LOL"
> 
> I spent months researching Jazzmasters as well as Jaguars, and played numerous different models before deciding on this one in particular. So, yes I actually *did* know something this person did not.
> 
> ...


Prove what point? That your story is incredibly flawed? 
Not once did you mention that, as you put it, he exclaimed "This is the wrong bridge! Take it back to Long & McQuade where you bought it and demand they exchange it." He said it had the wrong bridge which is completely correct in context. You're just backpedalling your hole filled story. 

Also, just because a book discussing setups for jaguars and jazzmasters exists, doesn't mean that a specific guide is needed. You're taking a sufficient condition and using it as a necessary condition. Body shapes of guitars have NOTHING to do with how you set them up. Also, everything in that link that you posted is common luthier tech.

I'll repost just so you can read it again.

"All of the symptoms she described such as dead sounding strings and buzzing could easily be attributed to wrong string spacing from a bridge, indicative of the first luthier telling her she had a problem but instead of heeding his advice, chose to ignore it for whatever reason."


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## Embers (Feb 17, 2018)

TDeneka said:


> Prove what point? That your story is incredibly flawed?
> Not once did you mention that, as you put it, he exclaimed "This is the wrong bridge! Take it back to Long & McQuade where you bought it and demand they exchange it." He said it had the wrong bridge which is completely correct in context. You're just backpedalling your hole filled story.
> 
> Also, just because a book discussing setups for jaguars and jazzmasters exists, doesn't mean that a specific guide is needed. You're taking a sufficient condition and using it as a necessary condition. Body shapes of guitars have NOTHING to do with how you set them up. Also, everything in that link that you posted is common luthier tech.
> ...


Wow. I've been following this for a bit and so far there have been interesting replies. Until you and your bud started talking about OP like she couldn't see your posts. I made an account just so I could reply 'cause this is so ridiculous. 

If there were holes in the story my suggestion is: ask questions so you can find out what's missing. Thought that would be obvious. 

But I think OP meant you proved her point about being female and "not knowing anything" cause you seem to be quite motivated to prove that she doesn't. "Your story is incredibly flawed" - that's such a typical response. 

Your responses so far have been condescending and barely useful. And missing the point of the thread. Disappointing. 

Anyone have anymore failed setup stories?


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

Embers said:


> Wow. I've been following this for a bit and so far there have been interesting replies. Until you and your bud started talking about OP like she couldn't see your posts. I made an account just so I could reply 'cause this is so ridiculous.
> 
> If there were holes in the story my suggestion is: ask questions so you can find out what's missing. Thought that would be obvious.
> 
> ...


I don't know anyone on this forum at all. So the person I was discussing the hole filled story with is another anonymous face to me. There are no "buds" here, nor are we posting as if she can't see the posts. Of course she can, it's an open forum. 
I am also completely convinced you've been following this thread for "a bit" (since it's inception on February 8th) completely anonymously and have no ties to the OP whatsoever. Yup, completely believable. 

Pointing out the holes in the story would leave the OP to clarify, and as a result you should see this as "obvious." 

Also, a guitar forum is perhaps the most idiotic place to attempt to inject your identity politics into. Your attempt to discredit my opinion on the basis of a hypothetical bias I have against women is abominable at best. Would you have drawn that correlation if the OP hadn't mentioned her gender? I don't give a damn if its a male, female, cat, dog or attack helicopter I am discussing something with. This is a public forum. I, much like every member here, am allowed to voice an opinion regardless whether or not your or the OP's fragile psyches are able to process opposing opinions. You're completely right though, no one should ever critically analyze what they are reading and question it. 

Finally, my single post supporting another forum user JBFairthorn


JBFairthorne said:


> I wasn't aware that a setup on an offset was any different than a setup on any other guitar.


are the most useful pieces of information from this thread. 
Disappointing you can't get past your own bias to see that.


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## AlBDarned (Jun 29, 2017)

If I make a post where I make some tenuous claims, suggest that I as a beginner whatever know more than a professional whatever, and state contradictory 'facts' in said post (the bridge is correct; the bridge has the wrong spacing) - and someone calls me on it, my defence is not going to be "Oh, you must be a man-hater."

Right is right, wrong is wrong - and neither is gender specific.

Look up "ad hominem" and try to understand why that's a failed rationale as opposed to actual reason.


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## cdntac (Oct 11, 2017)

Ronbeast said:


> I’m a garage/woodshed hack when it comes to my... methods, but at least I’m forthright about it.
> 
> I’ve never charged a cent for a setup, as I’m not a business. I only really do setups on friends’ instruments, so the deal is they supply the strings and the beer.
> 
> ...


I do the same thing at home for some friends though I'll take a little money from some if I spend a while crowning their frets or putting in pickups.


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## Guest (Feb 18, 2018)

I usually charge my friends a bottle of bourbon.


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## ezcomes (Jul 28, 2008)

laristotle said:


> I usually charge my friends a bottle of bourbon.


I got screwed by a friend renovating their basement...since then its one of two options...
1. I don't work for friends, or
2. If its something small, its free labour...that way i dont have to hear complaints, its simply, i did my best


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## ed2000 (Feb 16, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> What I'd like to learn is how to do a proper neck reset incase either one of my Martin authentics ever need it. Not something I'd ever try to self learn.


Martin neck reset - even a pro Toronto shop can screw a Martin neck reset up.
I've never been afraid to break things - hence all my set ups have been DIY for the last 52 years.


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