# Scales for jazz?



## Jason877 (12 mo ago)

What is your favourite scale to use when playing jazz? Trying to explore new scales rather than repeating pentatonic scales.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G# 
....I think that's the jazz scale. I might not have gotten the order correct


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## Jason877 (12 mo ago)

Brunz said:


> A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G#
> ....I think that's the jazz scale. I might not have gotten the order correct


Thanks. Going to try this when I get back.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

I'm sure someone will come along with a much more useful answer but I couldn't help the slight poke into what is a really amazing musical style. Hope you don't mind.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

Honestly, you'll get more mileage at first by
learning your chord tones (chords & arpeggios) and working with what you have (major/minor pentatonic, blues scale, major scale).

There isn't a magic scale that will allow you to blow through all of jazz, unfortunately.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

duplicated...


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@Jason877 How far along are you with any of the aspects of learning some basic jazz on the guitar?

I have been learning (moveable) chords typically used in jazz. The chords sound so "colourful" and pleasing (to me)

This might interest you...
Jazz Guitar Chords


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

If you're more interested in Jazz/Rock fusion, you may want to look for Scott Henderson's two videos: Jazz Rock Mastery as well as Melodic Control. (No idea where to find them nowadays...)


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## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

Modal scales are excellent jazz study material. Here is a page from my book, goes thru all the modes, self explainitory


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## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

and where to use the modes? This page should help


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Jazz revolves around the ii-V-I chord pattern, so a lot of Dorian, Mixolydian, Ionian scales.

Good news: If you can play a major scale up and down 2 octaves, you can play all of the modes of the major scale. 

I'm a fan of George Russell's ideas:









Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal Organization - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

dgreen said:


> and where to use the modes? This page should help
> View attachment 399636
> View attachment 399636


What's the title of your book and where can I buy it?


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

If you're just looking for new sounds without completely diving into jazz, you may also want to check out Robben Ford, Beyond the Blues. I'm pretty sure you can find a PDF somewhere.


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## Jason877 (12 mo ago)

greco said:


> @Jason877 How far along are you with any of the aspects of learning some basic jazz on the guitar?
> 
> I have been learning (moveable) chords typically used in jazz. The chords sound so "colourful" and pleasing (to me)
> 
> ...


I used to play lots of blues, but lately am transitioning into learning jazz. I have learned some classic jazz pieces like autumn leaves, darn that dream, misty etc. I know basic jazz chords and usually able to learn by ear, but find myself quickly running out of notes/ideas to play when trying to solo over those chords.


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## Jason877 (12 mo ago)

dgreen said:


> and where to use the modes? This page should help
> View attachment 399636
> View attachment 399636


Thanks! Time to practice


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## Jason877 (12 mo ago)

Grab n Go said:


> If you're just looking for new sounds without completely diving into jazz, you may also want to check out Robben Ford, Beyond the Blues. I'm pretty sure you can find a PDF somewhere.


Robben Ford is definitely my style. I've never seen this video before though. Thanks for sharing it!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Jason877 said:


> I know basic jazz chords and usually able to learn by ear, but find myself quickly running out of notes/ideas to play when trying to solo over those chords.


I run out of notes because I have an inexpensive guitar and I'm convinced that it doesn't have all the notes that other guitars must have and that are essential for jazz.

BTW...Welcome to the forum! 
I missed noticing that you joined only 6 hours ago.


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## Jason877 (12 mo ago)

greco said:


> I run out of notes because I have an inexpensive guitar and I'm convinced that it doesn't have all the notes that other guitars must have and that are essential for jazz.
> 
> BTW...Welcome to the forum!
> I missed noticing that you joined only 6 hours ago.


I'm sure getting a vintage Gibson jazz box will solve all problems. Must be the guitar then. Gotta have more.. 
And thanks! GC seems like an awesome community.


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

greco said:


> I run out of notes because I have an inexpensive guitar and I'm convinced that it doesn't have all the notes that other guitars must have and that are essential for jazz.


After acquiring my latest conquest, I have to be the one to unfortunately inform you that alas, the more expensive guitars do not have the more notes. You have to get into the vintage market for those. My '97 did not qualify, you have to go back prewar kinda stuff if you want all the notes to play.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@Jason877 Excuse my insatiable curiosity...What guitars and amps are you using?
(excluding the ES330 that you are about to find...someday soon)



Brunz said:


> I have to be the one to unfortunately inform you that alas, the more expensive guitars do not have the more notes. You have to get into the vintage market for those.


That's it! My jazz career is now officially over.
Will my present guitar have enough notes for rap? Is it hard to learn?


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

If you tune down a half step would you get more notes? What about a full step?


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## Mark Brown (Jan 4, 2022)

greco said:


> Will my present guitar have enough notes for rap? Is it hard to learn?


No, your present collection of guitars fabulous as they may be have too many notes. If you remove all but one string, detune it 3 octaves off the low E and place a capo on the 15th fret you will be set up for the "rap" as it were.


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## Grab n Go (May 1, 2013)

Jason877 said:


> Robben Ford is definitely my style. I've never seen this video before though. Thanks for sharing it!


Nice!

I recommend finding a chord chart from a fakebook for Revelation (Russell Ferrante). The chord chart in the PDF is kinda weird.

Also, the pentatonic based chord thing he does for Miles Groove is really great for modal vamps.


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## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

player99 said:


> What's the title of your book and where can I buy it?


I did post my book in the for sale thread of "other musical items"
I stopped shipping the book a couple years ago as my second edition is running low and hanging onto remaining copies for existing and future students over the next 5 years or so.
I would still have approx 20 extra copies that I would ship:








FS: - Guitar instruction Book, Free shipping in Canada


Over the past 5 years of being a member of the CGF I have noticed the same re occurring questions coming up over and over regarding theoretical dilemma's among players. I see so many talented players coming into my studio that just want to clarify or understand musical segments that always...




www.guitarscanada.com


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## Jonathan (Dec 30, 2016)

I would start with a simple I7 IV7 V7 style blues and learn to play the chord/scales and arpeggios up and down. If you don’t know much about chord-scales, I would recommend Jamey Aebersold’s Volume 54 “maiden voyage” play along book. There is a blues in this book that would be great. There is also a jazz blues in F in this book which has a slightly more complex form. This book could keep someone busy for a while - it’s also got a few classic jazz tunes and some “basic” exercises, but assumes you read a bit of music. There is also a great lesson on “Shell chords” by Molly Miller on YouTube that is great for stepping away from big clunky six string/5 string chords that sound too muddy. 


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Jonathan said:


> I would start with a simple I7 IV7 V7 style blues and learn to play the chord/scales and arpeggios up and down. If you don’t know much about chord-scales, I would recommend Jamey Aebersold’s Volume 54 “maiden voyage” play along book. There is a blues in this book that would be great. There is also a jazz blues in F in this book which has a slightly more complex form. This book could keep someone busy for a while - it’s also got a few classic jazz tunes and some “basic” exercises, but assumes you read a bit of music. There is also a great lesson on “Shell chords” by Molly Miller on YouTube that is great for stepping away from big clunky six string/5 string chords that sound too muddy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


+1 on Aebersold Play-a-longs.... I've got the first 100 or so. You can also get play- a-long cd/books for The Real Book.


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## Jonathan (Dec 30, 2016)

Some other method books/resources that have helped me are “connecting chords with linear harmony” by Bert Ligon (he has a couple of other amazing books available as well) or any of Jerry Bergonzi’s books (pentatonics, developing a jazz language, I think there are 5-6 books in the series) from advance music.

On a side note - here’s a cool video of a Gary Burton jazz workshop. https://youtu.be/t2txO_u2eNg. 

I’ve also been recently digging Kenny Burrell’s album “Midnight Blue”. What’s everyone else listening to for inspiration these days?


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## Waterlouis (Jun 6, 2021)

Jason877 said:


> Robben Ford is definitely my style. I've never seen this video before though. Thanks for sharing it!


I'm on the Robben Ford 'path' right now. I like how he gets so much out of pentatonic scales uses diminished, melodic minor licks/runs over the changes. I'd recommend for anyone who wants to expand beyond pentatonics to check out some of the interviews he's done. He explains how he approached guitar (Mickey Baker book 1, influence of Wayne Shorter and other pentatonic-styled sax players). And of course, listening to his music.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

No favourite scales but still being a book guy it's fun to peruse them for ideas. Here are the first few that came to hand:


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## mmurra55 (12 mo ago)

Here's a resource some of you may find interesting/useful. Its a free web app where you can select the intervals for a chord you are looking to play over (anything from a simple triad to the most outrageous combinations of intervals imaginable) and it then provides the scale options (broken down by mode as well) that contain those intervals (as well as the full breakdown of the intervals contained in each scale). It may provide some new options to look at/learn. As a side note, Noel Johnston (the creator) also has a crazy in depth book related to this topic and a criminally unknown youtube channel where he talks about some of these concepts.

Voicing Modes APP


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## info_please73 (Jan 15, 2020)

In my experience, there “aren’t really” any jazz scales. There are the bebop scales, like the dominant bebop scale. But over time I realized a lot of the really tasty lines come from melodic minor, harmonic minor, and blues scales. I guess my point is that you can refine “basic” material you already know well with other kinds of techniques like phrasing, accents, etc. it’s already been mentioned but it’s worth repeating: arpeggios. Upper structure triads (“extensions”) are where you’re going to find all your colour tones, more interesting sounds, highlighting all the 7ths, 9s, 11s, 13s, etc. but that’s honestly a journey that should be undertaken by musicians who know their key signatures otherwise you can easily get confused. Kenny Burrell, that midnight blue album. Very very approachable. Easy to hear and get inside if you’re confident in your blues chops. Simple things like using the blues scale and substituting every natural instinctual desire to BEND with a SLIDE can make you sound way more “jazz”


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## Derek_T (10 mo ago)

I'd recommend that you start by identifying artists or songs that speak to you as Jazz. Jazz is a vocabulary it's not just about the notes you play it's also the phrasing, the rhythmic ideas... 

Robben Ford's great that's where I started to go into Jazz too. But it's very different than a Wes M. Or Grant G. and it's going to drive what you need to learn to "sound Jazz".

+1 on Jens Larsen, amazing stuff

Good luck !


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## Mutant_Guitar (Oct 24, 2021)

Jazz don't live here man. 

Seriously though, everyone said it and you can add it all up and still make your own mind up. Jazz doesn't live in the scales, or the chords, or the modes, or the like. It's in the experience joining these things up, and realizing that they are all the same thing, not differentiated in the way that one makes sense and the other doesn't. It's like a nesting-doll. And so they are all one thing; jazz happens when you demonstrate that to the listener/yourself; and when you tell the "line" as a story; how these concepts (chords, scales, devices) connect and represent each other; their distance and nearness to each other. The prospect of navigating through the changes is jazz, it happens, but it doesn't like to repeat itself...so the idea is really to keep it all moving and keep it in constant relativity to what is happening (chords related to scales, scales related to chords, modes chosen for entry and exit points, making choices how much or how little to play, etc.)


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