# The truth about bringing guitars in from the U.S.



## satim (Mar 23, 2006)

This question was raised that we as Canadians do not have to pay duty on U.S. goods because of the Free Trade Agreement know the facts before you have anything shipped in from the U.S. 
*Fact Sheet
This document is also available in PDF (79 Kb)
May 2006

Visiting friends or relatives outside Canada? Proper planning can help ensure you have a worry-free cross-border trip. Whether you've been gone for only a few hours, or for several days, returning to Canada means a stop at a Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) office. Here are a few tips to get you on your way.

Bring Identification 
Make sure you carry the proper identification for yourself and any children travelling with you, including any documents the country you intend to visit requires, such as passports, birth certificates, and visas. Proper identification includes birth certificates, baptismal certificates, passports, citizenship cards, records of landing, permanent resident cards and certificates of Indian status. These will help prove your citizenship and residency when you return to Canada.

Travelling with Children 
Our officers watch for missing children and may ask detailed questions about the children who are travelling with you. If you have legal custody of the child(ren) or if you share custody, have copies of relevant legal documents, such as custody rights. If you are not the custodial parent or not the parent or legal guardian of the child(ren), carry a letter of permission or authorization for you to have custody when entering Canada. A letter would also facilitate entry for any one parent travelling with their child(ren). This permission should contain contact telephone numbers for the parent or legal guardian. If you are travelling as part of a group of vehicles, be sure that you are in the same vehicle as your child(ren) when you arrive at the border. 

Check Border Wait Times 
Check our border wait times () for the latest waiting time of the border crossing along your route. Border wait times are updated every hour.

What can I bring back with me? 
When you return to Canada, you may qualify for a personal exemption. Personal exemptions allow you to bring goods of a certain value into the country without paying the regular duties. If you have been outside Canada for:

24 hours or more, you can bring in CAN$50 worth of goods free of duty and tax; 
48 hours or more, you can bring in CAN$200 worth of goods free of duty and tax; 
7 days or more, you can bring in CAN$750 worth of goods free of duty and tax. 
Alcohol and Tobacco - Restrictions apply to the amount of alcohol and tobacco you can bring into Canada under your exemption. If you have been outside Canada for at least 48 hours and are of legal age, you can bring in these amounts of alcohol and tobacco products free of duty and tax as part of your personal exemption:

Alcoholic beverages: 

1.14 L (40 oz.) of liquor; or 
1.5 L of wine; or 
24 X 355 ml (12 oz.) containers of beer. 
Tobacco products (all of the following):

200 cigarettes; 
50 cigars or cigarillos; 
200 tobacco sticks; and 
200 g (7 oz.) of manufactured tobacco. 
If you bring in more than the free allowance of alcohol or tobacco, you will be required to pay the applicable duties and taxes.

As of October 1, 2001, if you include cigarettes, tobacco sticks, or loose tobacco in your personal exemption allowance, only a partial exemption will apply. You will have to pay a minimum duty on these products unless they are marked "CANADA - DUTY PAID - DROIT ACQUITTÉ." You will find Canadian-made products sold at a duty-free shop marked this way. You can speed up your clearance by having your tobacco products available for inspection when you arrive. 

What if I want to bring back more alcohol and tobacco? 
Except for restricted items, you can bring back any amount of goods as long as you are willing to pay the duties and any provincial and territorial assessments that may apply.

Restricted items / Prohibited Items 
Handguns and weapons like mace and pepper spray are prohibited from entering Canada. Also, some fruits, vegetables, meats and plants from other countries cannot be brought into Canada. Review our travellers’ frequently asked questions for more information.

What if I'm away for only a few hours? 
If you don't qualify for a personal exemption, you can still bring back any amount of goods - except for restricted items - as long as you are willing to pay the duties and any provincial and territorial assessments that may apply.

Keep all your receipts handy 
CBSA officers may ask you to show receipts for the goods you've purchased while out of the country. They may also ask to see your hotel receipts to verify the length of your stay outside Canada. Keeping these items all together and readily accessible will help to avoid unnecessary delays.

Make a full declaration 
If you are not sure what to declare when you arrive in Canada, declare all items first and then discuss them with the officer.*


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

This is good stuff Satim, but these are just the personal exemptions for when you are physically in the States. There are certain items that are exempt from duty when importing.We should track these down and post them so everyone has the info. Must be available somewhere.


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## cbh747 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Nothing to do with shipping guitars*

That's helpful but it has nothing to do with shipping guitars.

Here is the pdf for musical instruments.


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## nacho_grande (May 7, 2006)

I had a baaaad experience in last month. I ordered a tutorial dvd form US and it was almost 25 USD after shipping. When I recieved the item I had to pay 10CAD as custom tax. Can you believe that? Almost %50 additional amount. Gosh after this I really gave up to buy things online from US. If you guys know more effective ways, I am happy to hear them indeed.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Here is the NAFTA if anyone has 4 hours to read it.

http://www.sice.oas.org/trade/nafta/naftatce.asp


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## Lowtones (Mar 21, 2006)

I have on many occasions ordered from the US. Usually have to pay a large amount in customs fees. This however is not exactly true as Agent fees would me a more appropriate term. Of course some of the cost is in fact customs and PST but the carriers often get a good chunk of your money. I got to the point that I wouldn't order less than $300. at a time to keep the charges down to an acceptable percentage. I travel to the US regulary on business so when I am going to be somewhere for a week or more I almost always have an order shipped to my hotel. I then claim it as a personal exemption when I come back. I also live less than an hour from Port Huron MI. I found out about a parcel service for Canadians there. Now I simply have everything shipped to Port Huron. This service costs me $4.00 per package and they notify me by telephone when a package comes in. Since my shipments are usually parts or tools I try to keep the orders down to under $200. I always declare the true value of my goods as to get caught doing otherwise is just not worth the consequences. However, I have never been asked to pay any duty when bringing the package back. I just tell the Customs Agent that I make guitars as a hobby and that I have some parts/ tools valued at the actual amount. They always say have a nice day and wave me on. Since I drive a pickup truck with a 128 liter tank, I usually go across the border with less than a quarter of a tank. Gasoline is considerably cheaper on the other side of the border so I fill up. The savings on gas usually covers the cost of gas there & back $5.00 in bridge tolls and the $4.00 package fee. I'm usually back home within two hours of leaving and it is all very convienient. Especially if you have included in your order a substance that cannot be shipped into Canada i.e. glues or finishing products. 
Another point to be aware of is if you order any of the fine products from Carvin they will ship it to Canada and cover all of the customs & duty for double the normal shipping fee. This is very cost effective unless you want to overnight something from them then it gets expensive as it is double the overnight fee. BTW I think that Carvin has great products both guitars & good selection of parts at reasonable prices. I have also noticed unless you are just ordering a single item that it usually worth the cost to have them shipped from the states as prices are much lower. I would love to buy every item I purchase in Canada but to be honest we just get too badly gouged on most items ( if you can even get them). You can get many items online for close to half the price from the US as you will find them in Canada (online or otherwise) I have a friend who owns a couple of music stores. When I can I try to buy parts through him. The truth of the matter is that I can usually get guitar parts on line for less than his dealer cost. :smilie_flagge17:


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

cbh747 said:


> That's helpful but it has nothing to do with shipping guitars.
> 
> Here is the pdf for musical instruments.


Okay I may have misread this and I am not an importer, but is this correct?
I just read the PDF you linked to and it says on page 92.3 under heading 9207.90.10 subsection 10 that electric guitars are chargable by 6% under the MNF tariff and another 3% under Applicable Preferential tariff.
Is that correct?
I have bought and brought in a lot of used guitars from the USA and I always have been charged duties.

Pete


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## cbh747 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Yep*



faracaster said:


> Okay I may have misread this and I am not an importer, but is this correct?
> I just read the PDF you linked to and it says on page 92.3 under heading 9207.90.10 subsection 10 that electric guitars are chargable by 6% under the MNF tariff and another 3% under Applicable Preferential tariff.
> Is that correct?
> I have bought and brought in a lot of used guitars from the USA and I always have been charged duties.
> ...


Yes, but I thought it was just 6 percent. You may be right (6 and 3). I paid $40 on the last Strat that I got about 6 months ago. That was through USPS. If I had gone through UPS it probably would have cost a couple of hundred in "brokerage fees"

The savings were significant.


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## Crossroads (Apr 23, 2006)

cbh747 said:


> Yes, but I thought it was just 6 percent. You may be right (6 and 3). I paid $40 on the last Strat that I got about 6 months ago. That was through USPS. If I had gone through UPS it probably would have cost a couple of hundred in "brokerage fees"
> 
> The savings were significant.


you nailed it on the head... it really does depend on who the shipper is...ALWAYS specify USPS opposed to Fedex or UPS , the post office doesnt' mail you for customs clearance fees like the other couriers.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

If you buy a guitar that is made in Japan or Korea from the US you will get nailed with duty. If you buy a guitar made in the US from the US you will not pay duty. If you use UPS or Fedex you will ALWAYS get nailed with heavy brokerage fees that have no set amount. If you use USPS you will only pay a $5 brokerage fee on ANY item.

The only gray area seems to be taxes. I have bought a few used guitars from the States and had them shipped USPS and not paid a dime of tax on them. One example is a made in USA Gibson Melody Maker. Sometimes things just get through tax free for some reason. When they you you can really clean up. I got the Melody Maker for $299 + $35 shipping US. No duty, no taxes, no brokerage fees. I have bought other items though and been nailed big time for taxes.

It takes awhile to learn all this stuff 'the hard way', as I am sure others can attest.

There is one other important point though. While UPS is a rip off, they are also very quick to settle insurance issues if an item is damaged. I have heard from people who ship from the US that USPS is really bad with dealing with claims. They have said it's almost impossible to collect from them. That is why some retailers/sellers insisit on using UPS for international transaction. I have never had an item damaged by USPS/Canada Post so I can't verify that.


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> There is one other important point though. While UPS is a rip off, they are also very quick to settle insurance issues if an item is damaged. I have heard from people who ship from the US that USPS is really bad with dealing with claims. They have said it's almost impossible to collect from them. That is why some retailers/sellers insisit on using UPS for international transaction. I have never had an item damaged by USPS/Canada Post so I can't verify that.


Sorry, I have to take issue with that. I am in year two of trying to collect on a $2000. amp that UPS lost while it was on the truck 10 blocks from being delivered. They have "misplaced" my claim twice and I have had nothing but a runaround from them. 
Fed Ex is no better. A friend had a $5000 guitar completely mangled in transit from the manufacturer (McNaught). And after 18 months gave him $500 dollars. 
cheers
Pete


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

There are tons of horror stories out there. I think they encompass just about every carrier out there too. With the amount of good's being shipped now with the emergence of on-line auctions it's going to happen. You will notice that a lot of these eBay sellers insist on the extra insurance now, which can be pretty expensive. So far I guess I have been lucky. I have gotten at least 10-12 guitars and 3-4 amps through the mail and so far so good. Knock on wood.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

faracaster said:


> Sorry, I have to take issue with that. I am in year two of trying to collect on a $2000. amp that UPS lost while it was on the truck 10 blocks from being delivered. They have "misplaced" my claim twice and I have had nothing but a runaround from them.
> Fed Ex is no better. A friend had a $5000 guitar completely mangled in transit from the manufacturer (McNaught). And after 18 months gave him $500 dollars.
> cheers
> Pete



My input on this only comes from the US sellers I have bought items from. I personally have been lucky. I have ordred a lot of stuff online, and never had any horror stories. But the sellers I have dealt with have told me they have had way more problems getting insurance money from USPS than from UPS. So I am speaking in general terms.


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## jimbo_francis (Mar 23, 2006)

cbh747 said:


> Yes, but I thought it was just 6 percent. You may be right (6 and 3). I paid $40 on the last Strat that I got about 6 months ago. That was through USPS. If I had gone through UPS it probably would have cost a couple of hundred in "brokerage fees"
> 
> The savings were significant.


I always try to get things sent from the US by USPS. I've has golf clubs sent from Ohio using UPS and got burned for $80 fee. Likewise I've had other golf clubs, big boxes, hobby cards and such through USPS and never had a fee. 

JimBo


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## jimbo_francis (Mar 23, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> My input on this only comes from the US sellers I have bought items from. I personally have been lucky. I have ordred a lot of stuff online, and never had any horror stories. But the sellers I have dealt with have told me they have had way more problems getting insurance money from USPS than from UPS. So I am speaking in general terms.


See that may be the one downside then of USPS even though we rarely get a tax or fee come time to pick our items up.

JiMBo


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## FrogRick12 (Feb 21, 2006)

As an importer of US-made musical accessories, I have never been charged duty. We all know that US or Mexican-made products are duty-exempt under NAFTA.

Go to Google and download something called a "Certificate Of Origin" and send it along with your money to your US-based vendor and have them sign it and include it with the shipping docs. When Canada Customs sees it, they will know not to charge you duty on your US-made product.

Hopefully this will work.

Apart from that, BUY CANADIAN! SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL RETAILER!:smilie_flagge17:


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## sysexguy (Mar 5, 2006)

if you are under $1600 Cdn, you may get it through with the short form but over that lookout.....I've had FedEx charge full duty because a comma was missing or a date was not in the specified yyyy/mm/dd whatever format. If anyone needs the forms, pm me...also note that only the manufacturer is allowed to sign this statement so if you're buying from a dealer or ebay, you may be lucky....or not.

Andy

btw, microphones are duty free from anywhere......makes many things "accessory for exclusive use with microphone":smilie_flagge17:


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## FrogRick12 (Feb 21, 2006)

Quite right Andy.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

If you are ordering something worth, I think, $20 or less, it will come in free through the post office.

Other than a guitar, I always try to specify USPS. Canada Post is the cheapest on brokerage. Something like $5 brokerage fee plus GST (and PST for outside of AB). As said above, if it's made in the US, NAFTA will bring it in duty free.

The bad side - I just brought in a few parts for my Hammond, about $50US. The company charged $12 to ship UPS (they won't ship by post). UPS charged about $4 GST, no duty, but $32 brokerage fees. So freight and brokerage costs almost doubled the cost of the items. Needless to say, I only order from these guys when I really have to.

For guitars, I generally bite the bullet and pay the overnight air fee. I'm just bringing in my second guitar bought on the east coast. It costs an extra $150US for freight out of there to Calgary, but it doesn't give the freight co as much time to break the guitar, so I consider it a worth while cost.

As said above, on a US made guitar, there is no duty, just brokerage and GST (and PST). 

On the other hand, IF you can find the guitar up here, I don't think you save much by ordering from the US.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Do you have the option of staying over there for any length of time when you pick it up? If you are in the country for at least a weekend you have a certain amount you can bring back. It's more after a week. It would never be as high as $4000 though  .

Where is the amp made? That will decide if you have to pay duty and taxes, or just taxes.

If I was over there for the weekend, I wouldn't even claim anything guitar related coming back, but that is just me. I'd stick a guitar in the car on the way over so the amp doesn't look out of place on the way back. I'd take my chances. It's not odd to be driving around with guitar gear.


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## Dirty_Frank (Feb 13, 2006)

I've ordered a number of things from the US.

I ordered a shannon pedal, made in the US w/ no duty.

I got a pair of THD Yellow Jackets today, w/ no duty.

Set of Gotoh tuners, sent priority Fedex, got screwed on the doodie.  Duty on those was almost as much as they cost.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

I received my 2001 LP R9 this week from the US East Coast.

This is the second guitar I've brought in this year. In both cases I paid the extra $150 to get FedEx overnight. The shippers both knew how to pack a guitar. And they came through with no problems whatsoever. I also arranged to pick them up at the FedEx warehouse, so I don't have to risk them driving around in a truck for a day.

By buying in the US I saved some money, but more importantly both of these guitars would be very hard to find up here:
- 1960 Melody Maker singlecut, modded to 2 humbuckers
- Les Paul '59 reissue
Bonus on the LP was I bought from a very respected dealer, who gave me a tone report, idea on the neck size etc before I bought it, sight unseen.

I think, if you are buying a guitar that is more available up here, you are better off buying up here.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

The best deal I got was a 2003 Gibson Melody maker for $299 US. I didn' t get nailed for taxes or duty (US made) at the border, though I should have got nailed for taxes. So it was about $340 US with shipping. Those guitars are $750 at Long and Mcquade I believe.

The place I bought it from is a respected online used dealer, does full setups on anything he sells, and offers a 7 day return period.

You really just need to go by each sale. I personally look around Craiglist and local used sources before buying stuff from the States. But there (a) are some deals you just can't beat and (b) some stuff you just can't find.

The thing that is annoying is the used deals I find in the States are pretty common used gear prices there. They are realistic. The prices stores in Toronto charge are ridiculous and since I am near Toronto, those prices bleed over to here. I know the gear is more abundant in the States, but still the markups are ridiculous here.


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## SCREEM (Feb 2, 2006)

dwagar said:


> I received my 2001 LP R9 this week from the US East Coast.
> 
> This is the second guitar I've brought in this year. In both cases I paid the extra $150 to get FedEx overnight. The shippers both knew how to pack a guitar. And they came through with no problems whatsoever. I also arranged to pick them up at the FedEx warehouse, so I don't have to risk them driving around in a truck for a day.
> 
> ...



How do are you liking the R9?


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

SCREEM said:


> How do are you liking the R9?


Thanks for asking, I am completely overwhelmed by what a great guitar it is, perfect, for me anyway. May not be someone else's cup of tea, but I've spent most of my playing years on LPs and this is my first historic. Love the neck, sounds just great, and its 8 3/4 lbs, nice weight for me.

I can see the other guitar cases getting dusty real soon.


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## Teleplucker (Feb 5, 2006)

dwagar said:


> This is the second guitar I've brought in this year. In both cases I paid the extra $150 to get FedEx overnight. The shippers both knew how to pack a guitar. And they came through with no problems whatsoever. I also arranged to pick them up at the FedEx warehouse, so I don't have to risk them driving around in a truck for a day.


Curious about this method of shipping...did you have to pay brokerage fees on the overnight shipping? I've heard that you might as well go overnight or second day air on more expensive stuff because UPS/FedEx throws in the brokerage fees and it turns out to cost about the same amount as ground.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

That's quite possible, I'll try to find the bill, but it worked out to roughly GST only. Of course, I might be getting another bill in the mail from FedEx.
I didn't look that close, since the guitar was significantly less in the USA than I could find in a store here, the GST was less too.


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## silverkw (Feb 2, 2006)

There was one time i got a set of tele pickups which cost $50 and i got charged another $50 when it came here, $35 of which is the brokage fee.

I always try to ask shipper to use USPS instead of UPS or Fedex, then again, I buy cheap guitars online side unseen. I'd never buy a Gibson Les Paul without trying it first though.

As much as i know i could save a bit buying from US, i'd get it from canada if it's available...


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I just stumbled across this thing here from Canada Post. I noticed an eBay seller out of the States using it. If you use it, all the customs and fees are calculated prior to shipping. So you at least know what to expoect if anything. No surprises. It's called BorderFree

http://www.borderfree.com/en/consumers/index.jsp


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

I believe Teleplucker was correct in his post above - the $150 overnight shipping must include the brokerage fees, as I only paid GST on the Les Paul I imported.

There was a blurb on CBC News this week about how we're currently getting screwed on exchange rates. We're still paying prices based on old exchange rates. So I expect we'll see more importing until Canadian dealers get their act together.

As Silverkw mentioned, how do you buy something as expensive as a Les Paul without trying it? Never a good idea. You can either go with the best Ebay deal you can find, so you can safely resell it if it's a 'dog', or pay a bit more and buy through a trusted dealer.

I bought my LP through Marks Guitar Loft in New Hampshire. This guy has an exceptional reputation, so I had no worries. Mark will tell you about every single scratch on a guitar, play it and give you a tone report, etc. 

I bought a 2001 '59 LP Reissue for $2950US. Add $150 for freight, and exchange at about 1.11, and you're under $3500 Cdn. The ONLY used one L&M had (well, it was actually back to Gibson for repair, so I'd also have to wait for it) was an '03 for $4500. So I saved about $1,000 (plus the GST on the difference, so closer to $1100). Mine was also previously owned by Mick Ralphs of Bad Company/Mott the Hoople - came with a letter of provinence (sp?). I didn't think he'd play a 'dog' - this guitar can be seen on his '02 Mott the Hoople tour.

And yes, it is a fantastic guitar. Absolutely the best I've ever owned.

I would always suggest you try out many guitars before you lay out a bunch of cash (as Silverkw recommends). But sometimes you simply cannot find the guitar you want (L&M Calgary doesn't even stock new ones, you'd have to order one - too expensive: $5895 VOS finish, the guy I talked to thought he could order a gloss finish for about $400 more if I wanted), or the savings importing are simply too big to ignore.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

dwagar said:


> There was a blurb on CBC News this week about how we're currently getting screwed on exchange rates. We're still paying prices based on old exchange rates. So I expect we'll see more importing until Canadian dealers get their act together.


Nothing demonstrates like that Fender Products. The pricing on the MIM and MIA Fender guitars doesn't make any sense here when you compare it to US pricing.


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

I'm thinking of purchasing an amp head off ebay from someone in the states... what's the cheapest way to ship it to Canada? How much should I expect to pay in customs etc? It looks like if the sellers ships UPS/Fedex I should get the more expensive overnight since it includes brokerage fees? Thanks!


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## bassman blue (Feb 24, 2006)

hey jane. i didn't read the whole thread, but in response to your questions... i do this all the time, but i live 5 minutes north of the border which helps alot. i buy my stuff, pay by paypal, and have it sent either to my p.o. box in sumas, wa or have it sent to a ups counter in sumas, wa. i then go over pick it up and bring it through myself. if made in the us or mexico, there is no duty and you just pay the taxes. if you have it brought through by a brokerage co. or ups, for example, you'll pay brokerage fees and the wait will be much longer. see if you can do the pick-up yourself, it works sweet. regards, al.


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

I can't drive... lol! Thanks though!


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## rippinglickfest (Jan 1, 2006)

*US shipping Gear*

I've ordered two guitars and several necks from Warmoth and Ed Romans and have been fortunate to have had everthing arrive. Mail ordering is by far the cheapest route. Canadian retailers dont like us buying elsewhere but when you figure in the cost of travel especially if you dont live in a major metro centre, it makes a lot of sense. Havent tried an amp yet though........has anyone ordered large amps and how much was the shipping cost??
Ray


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

satim said:


> This question was raised that we as Canadians do not have to pay duty on U.S. goods because of the Free Trade Agreement know the facts before you have anything shipped in from the U.S.
> *Fact Sheet
> This document is also available in PDF (79 Kb)
> May 2006
> ...



Unless you're a registered Indian:wave:


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## jazzalta (Aug 3, 2006)

You guys are depressing me. I am currently waiting for the FedEx bill on a German made guitar ordered thru the States. I got a feeling it's gonna be a whopper.


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## Benee Wafers (Jul 1, 2006)

Well jazzalta One thing for sure...a NAFTA Certificate will not be able to save you from the applicable duty as it can only be applied to goods manufactured in the U.S.
Sorry.
Benee Wafers


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

jroberts said:


> There is a big difference in the requirements and paperwork required for commercial importation vs. casual or non-commercial importation. Pretty much everything you have said applies to commercial importation only, which most people here will not be doing. For example, there is no $1,600 trigger for non-commercial importation, and the export documents do not have to be filled out by a manufacturer.
> 
> In short, importation for personal use is actually a lot simpler than you're making it out to be. A note to the average reader: Canadian retailers will always try to convince you that buying from the U.S. is very complicated and very costly. Why do they do this? Obviously, they have a vested interest in you buying locally. There are many reasons to buy locally rather from the big U.S. retailers, but high duties and complicated import procedures are almost never part of those reasons.


So for us “average people” (non-commercial importers), should we be providing a “certificate of origin” or some sort of Nafta document to a US retailer with our payment? (providing that we are buying a US made instrument).



FrogRick12 said:


> ... Apart from that, BUY CANADIAN! SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL RETAILER!:smilie_flagge17:


David, I agree with JRoberts on this. Believe me, aside from the convenience of seeing and trying the instrument at a local retailer, I am 100% for supporting Canadians. But there’s something quite wrong when for the same item, we Canadians have to pay hundreds of dollars more by buying from local retailers. What is it? Greed?

A guitar that retails at $1500.00 US can be bought for about $1200.00 US. But it retails at $1900.00 at a Canadian retailer and can be bought for $1900.00 no less. At $1200.00, the conversion to cdn dollars (x 1.12082 today as I write this) is $1344.98 cdn !! With USPS Air at about $41.00 US (about $46.00 cdn) for shipping, that’s about $1390.00 cdn. $1900.00 here in Canada plus 14% GST and PST, we’re at about $2166.00 cdn. $2166 minus $1390 is about $775.00 cdn dollars difference. If the US retailer makes a profit at $1200 (about $1350 cdn), then a Canadian retailer makes a profit at $1350 PLUS and extra $775 ??!?

When I’m looking to buy, I now check with US retailers first to see what is the best price that I can get it at. I usually find something much below retail. Then I send emails to local retailers asking them what their best price would be and (when and if I get a reply) they come back with this out of whack retail price as if to say “if you really want to buy from me, that is it”. Well I didn’t need to send you an email Mr Canadian Retailer, I already knew before emailing you what the retail price is. The extra cost combined with this attitude is unfortunately pushing me and many others to buy from the US.

I would love to see something happening with our Canadian retailers; even if I had to pay A FEW extra dollars, I would buy local. But as my example above, saving about $775 dollars (cdn), even if I get gouged at the border for a few hundred dollars, I still saved a whole bunch.


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## Crossroads (Apr 23, 2006)

*support local*

I too agree to support local business.... however I enquired to the local Washburn dealer in Kingston, about a particular guitar and never got a answer, so... I bought it from ebay, paid a whopping 8.65$ to the post office for handling and gst and got my guitar, for a couple hundred less than toronto, :confused-smiley-010 So if local folk won't take the time I will shop elsewhere


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I have to agree with ofender. The other HUGE factor is used prices in the States. Especially when you are talking about US made guitars that you can import under NAFTA. Because the gear is cheaper in the first place, and there is WAY more of it around the used gear prices are so much less in the States that it's not even comparible. I recently ordered an Fender American Series Ash Tele in sunburst from from a seller in the States I buy a fair amount of gear from for $700. That guitar is $1045 (on sale at Musicians Friend marked down from $1400) new in the States, and I don't even know what it costs here new. The ONLY way for me to ever own a guitar like that is to find a deal like that.

I assume it's not the local retailers fault, but the Canadian prices just do not make sense when you compare them to US prices in a lot of cases. There seems to be a major markup beyond the duty and taxes. And the prices on used gear can be insane. I am assuming it's mainly because the stuff is hard to find so they can get away with charging more.

One other point Ofender, you are likely over-estimating the shipping. UPS shipping on guitars is actually fairly cheap, and you know stores like Long and Mcquade and Steve's would be getting business rates due to the amount they import. I'd venture to say the shipping is actually half of what you are estimating.


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## jazzalta (Aug 3, 2006)

Just an update. My German guitar came in and FedEx charged me $156.00. So even with shipping, exchange, duty and taxes, I still saved almost $1000.00 by buying it in the States. Well worth it! NOte: I should point out that the place where I bought it considered the guitar used. I've yet to find even a scratch on this instrument.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

One guitar I bought from the States was a 2003, but it still had all the plastic on it and looked like it had never been played. It was still priced as used and priced to sell though.


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## Brian G (Aug 17, 2006)

Think I can add something to this . . . in my previous business we imported lots of equipment etc. from the US, including theatre seats made in Germany. Under NAFTA, if import duties have already been paid in the US, a Canadian importer does not have to pay duties again. However, you have to research and complete the right paperwork (really the shipper has to provide the paperwork from their end - lots of resistance there, and I doubt a seller not dealing with an ongoing business partner would want to know).

Not sure if this applies to personal use importation, but I don't see why the rules would be different.

Brian


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## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

Some of the price difference might have to do with the Canadian retailer buying back when the CDN $ was at .60.

The currency fluctuations have made things in the states much cheaper.

A guy I know bought a German SUV in the states brought it into Canada, paid all the duties taxes and saved 20 grand yes 20,000 over the Canadian price.

Now is a good time for us to buy down there.

I feel bad about not buying locally, but I don't have funds to the point that I can not care about saving hundreds of $. There is only so much to spend. I'll try and keep as much as I can for whatever else I need.


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## Brian G (Aug 17, 2006)

Canadian dealers who are on top of things will be noting the change in currency from 12 - 15 months ago to now, and will be talking to distribution companies who import and distribute US-made guitars, etc., to ensure those importers and manufacturers are responding to the stronger cdn dollar.

Those distributors should have adjusted the dealer costs well before now, to reflect the stronger dollar. Those who haven't are simply pocketing the difference as additional profits. Anyone can talk to their favorite dealer, and ask them which distributors have made appropriate cost adjustments, and I'm sure the dealers, for the most part, will be happy to discuss it.

US product that the dealer can purchase directly, or through a local rep/agency arrangement, without a stocking distributor in the middle, will have the cost advantage direct at source, as they're not reliant on a distributor to make the adjustment to the dealer cost.

Anyone noticed suggeested retail changes to, for example, Gibson (imported by Yorkville), or Vox / Digitech / Washburn etc. (imported by Erikson), etc. etc.?

Brian


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## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

Point well taken. It would be the high end stuff on the rck that would have the high price, due to the strong Canadian dollar.

If the price is really out of line we will all buy where we can better afford it.

It really is that simple.

Isn't it?


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