# Lessons at 12th Fret



## lyric girl

Just wondering if anybody has taken lessons at the 12th Fret in Toronto? Looking for opinions. Thanks.


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## amphead

I took lessons from Richard Smyth for a number of years - great experience. He really helped me with improvisation, technique, playing melodically and note choice. He's a VERY talented player, very humorous and good guy.


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## Steadfastly

I am not saying that their may not be a good instructor at 12th fret but for what it's worth here is what has been mine and others' experience with lessons at retail music shops.


How To Choose a Good Guitar Instructor

Do not look for a guitar teacher at a music store. Music stores are mainly interested in selling equipment. They likely have first rate equipment and second rate teachers. There is the odd exception where an instructor will rent space within a music shop and has no other ties to the music store. Go to a music studio, where their first concern is teaching. They will likely have first rate teachers and some even sell second rate equipment.

Here are some questions you should ask.

1) How long have you been teaching?
2) How many students do you presently have?
3) How many of your students have been with you over one year?
4) Ask for two or three references.
5) What structure do you use for teaching?
6) Do you teach your students to read music?
7) What types of music do you teach?
8) How much do you charge and what are the lengths of your lessons?

Numbers 5 and 6 are, in my opinion, the most important.


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## cheezyridr

i don't think i know what the right answers are to some of those questions


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## Steadfastly

cheezyridr said:


> i don't think i know what the right answers are to some of those questions


If the instructor is vague on any of them and especially on #5 & 6, I would find someone that wasn't. They are not worth your money. It's as simple as that.


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## Mooh

FlipFlopFly said:


> I am not saying that their may not be a good instructor at 12th fret but for what it's worth here is what has been mine and others' experience with lessons at retail music shops.
> 
> 
> How To Choose a Good Guitar Instructor
> 
> Do not look for a guitar teacher at a music store. Music stores are mainly interested in selling equipment. They likely have first rate equipment and second rate teachers. There is the odd exception where an instructor will rent space within a music shop and has no other ties to the music store. Go to a music studio, where their first concern is teaching. They will likely have first rate teachers and some even sell second rate equipment.
> 
> Here are some questions you should ask.
> 
> 1) How long have you been teaching?
> 2) How many students do you presently have?
> 3) How many of your students have been with you over one year?
> 4) Ask for two or three references.
> 5) What structure do you use for teaching?
> 6) Do you teach your students to read music?
> 7) What types of music do you teach?
> 8) How much do you charge and what are the lengths of your lessons?
> 
> Numbers 5 and 6 are, in my opinion, the most important.


As a private music instructor, I like this. If you want to know my credentials, references, and whether I'm insured, I don't mind either.

Peace, Mooh.


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## shoretyus

Mooh said:


> As a private music instructor, I like this. If you want to know my credentials, references, and whether I'm insured, I don't mind either.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


And it probably shows that they _*want*_ to be there when they ask those questions? .


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## lyric girl

Well, I guess I need to respond. I have heard that stuff about music stores and not taking lessons there; however, this is the 12th Fret we're talking about and not Joe Blow's Guitars. I thought that their teachers would have to be reputable?

After more than two years of taking lessons on and off, I don't know a whole lot of much. I'm not really sure I even want to read music anymore? I would really like to play songs that I like, by playing the chords.

I have been trying to find someone who would let me do a trial lesson and not make me commit to weeks on end. This has proved interesting.


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## Steadfastly

Mooh said:


> As a private music instructor, I like this. If you want to know my credentials, references, and whether I'm insured, I don't mind either.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


Mooh: I know you do. You and I discussed this awhile back. I got enough on you boy...........well, well, to recommend you!


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## Steadfastly

lyric girl said:


> Well, I guess I need to respond. I have heard that stuff about music stores and not taking lessons there; however, this is the 12th Fret we're talking about and not Joe Blow's Guitars. I thought that their teachers would have to be reputable?
> 
> After more than two years of taking lessons on and off, I don't know a whole lot of much. I'm not really sure I even want to read music anymore? I would really like to play songs that I like, by playing the chords.
> 
> I have been trying to find someone who would let me do a trial lesson and not make me commit to weeks on end. This has proved interesting.


If the instructor doesn't know how to read music, he's not worth your money. You may not want to learn music, but once you start, you'll quickly see the benefit. As to doing a trial lesson, a good instructor should let you do this as well.

Here is another option for you if your schedule is difficult to commit to a certain time each week. It does require self-discipline, though. It is very professional and very well structured. I know, I have it and use it.

Gibson's Learn & Master Guitar | Learn Guitar with DVD Lessons at Home | Acoustic & Electric

Wow, I haven't looked at the website for a bit. I see Gibson bought them out. I guess it's all part of the master marketing plan of the Gibson machine.


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## lyric girl

I don't do well with DVDs. I have tried and I just need a warm body sitting next to me who can fix things as I go.

My search is continuing. I found a really great guy in Toronto who does read music who now can't see me. I found a guy in my hometown who doesn't read music at all who I have an appointment with next week.

Can't I just learn how to play some stuff and then go back and do the theory part later?


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## bagpipe

lyric girl said:


> Can't I just learn how to play some stuff and then go back and do the theory part later?


I say yes. You're the one who's paying for the lessons so you're the one who should call the shots. No-one says you have to learn to read music. Although I think the questions in the list are still valid questions to ask.


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## Steadfastly

lyric girl said:


> I don't do well with DVDs. I have tried and I just need a warm body sitting next to me who can fix things as I go.
> 
> My search is continuing. I found a really great guy in Toronto who does read music who now can't see me. I found a guy in my hometown who doesn't read music at all who I have an appointment with next week.
> 
> Can't I just learn how to play some stuff and then go back and do the theory part later?


You might try looking here. 

Toronto (GTA) Music Lessons: Guitar, Piano, banjo, fiddle, drumming, vocal teachers on Kijiji.ca - Free Local Classifieds.


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## Fajah

lyric girl said:


> I would really like to play songs that I like, by playing the chords.


Guitar is one of few instruments that allows you to do this without the need to read music from the start. My students get a great sense of accomplishment when they can pick up the guitar and play a tune that they've chosen and like. It keeps their interest and motivates them to get better. 

I find that teaching reading, theory, etc. tends to enter the picture in a natural way depending on how far the student wants to take their playing and the genres of music they want to get into. In the end, it's still has to be fun.

With regards to taking lessons at a store, I've studied with teachers who worked out of stores, privately in their homes, and online. The real estate doesn't matter. It's all about the personal connection and whether you're achieving what you want to achieve. 

All my opinion of course


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## Shark

I taught music professionally for a while, though I'm not doing it anymore.

With a teacher, I think the two most important things are these:

1. Good connection; and 
2. Someone who is actually a good _teacher_.

Unfortunately, those two things are not necessarily things you can pick up on without going to at least one lesson. A lot of guitar teachers are just guys who play the guitar and their lessons consist of, "Ok, what rock song riffs do you want to learn today?" That's something you can do at home easily. Better teachers are ones with a diversity of styles, so that's one question you might wanna ask - "Can you teach me jazz and rockabilly?" Or something like that. It doesn't matter if you don't want to learn those styles. Basically, you want to see if the teacher knows music instead of just being a player who gets paid to teach rock riffs.

You also want someone you get along with, someone you click with, and someone who cares about your progression. These are things you will pick up on after a few lessons, unless you are good at picking up on things like that quickly. This shouldn't be under-estimated, because music is such a feel-based thing that the difference between a great learning environment and a lousy one will make a huge difference on its own, regardless of what is being taught.


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## Starbuck

lyric girl said:


> I don't do well with DVDs. I have tried and I just need a warm body sitting next to me who can fix things as I go.
> 
> My search is continuing. I found a really great guy in Toronto who does read music who now can't see me. I found a guy in my hometown who doesn't read music at all who I have an appointment with next week.
> 
> Can't I just learn how to play some stuff and then go back and do the theory part later?


Absolutely! Once you know some chords (and begin to understand their structre) it will start making sense to you. You do pick up some theory in spite of yourself, even if you're learning just chords and songs. (you get to understand scales for one) It's really nice to be able to play some songs you like and it's encouraging and makes you want to learn more.
Hendrix couldn't read music.. Supposedly Slash didn't know scales... Jimmy Page was self taught.. Look what they did? The important thing is that you really want to learn.


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## lyric girl

The latest try was a dud. I have no idea where to go, but think that selling my gear might be smart.


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## Starbuck

lyric girl said:


> The latest try was a dud. I have no idea where to go, but think that selling my gear might be smart.


Don't get discouraged. It sometimes can take a long, long time to find a teacher you like. I know people who have been through 5 or more before they find someone who "gets" them. Do yourself a favor, go out and get an REM Tab book and teach yourself Find the River (it's not a hard one) you'll instantly feel better. You will find that REM (like alot bands) write most of their songs in the same key so you can interchange the chords for a few of their songs. Then carry on.

I find that sometimes when I 've been fed up I will put away my guitars until I get the urge again. I always find I play a little bit better when I do that. Frustration sucks and will suck the joy out of learning anything!


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## kat_

lyric girl said:


> The latest try was a dud. I have no idea where to go, but think that selling my gear might be smart.


How many lessons did you have with the latest teacher?


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## greco

lyric girl said:


> ........I have no idea where to go, but think that selling my gear might be smart.


Do you ever get together with a friend (or friends) and just jam? 
Maybe you would enjoy it and learn some songs/progressions/etc. while waiting to find a teacher.

Please don't give up !!

As Starbuck suggests...giving it a bit of a rest might be wise.

Cheers

Dave


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## Steadfastly

lyric girl said:


> The latest try was a dud. I have no idea where to go, but think that selling my gear might be smart.


Hey there, LG, don't throw in the towel yet. There are lots of good teachers out there. Why don't you try a music studio. They usually have great teachers and often more than one so you can pick one that suits you best. Here's a few links that might be helpful.

guitar lessons/High Park location - City of Toronto Music Lessons - Kijiji City of Toronto Canada.

Academy of Music (ABMA.ca) Vaughan & King City Area (Maple, On) - City of Toronto Music Lessons - Kijiji City of Toronto Canada.

Piano, Singing, Guitar, Lessons - City of Toronto Music Lessons - Kijiji City of Toronto Canada.

Guitar lessons -drives to you're home,experienced guitar teacher - City of Toronto Music Lessons - Kijiji City of Toronto Canada.

I hope this helps. Regards, Flip.


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## lyric girl

Flip,

this is exactly where I keep finding these people. However, I just responded to four ads and used the questions posted on the first page of this thread. I will see what I get in response.

Many thanks everyone,

Lynda


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## Steadfastly

lyric girl said:


> Flip,
> 
> this is exactly where I keep finding these people. However, I just responded to four ads and used the questions posted on the first page of this thread. I will see what I get in response.
> 
> Many thanks everyone,
> 
> Lynda


Lynda: You're very welcome. Here is something else that might be helpful in the meantime. I also visit HC forums and we're starting a video lesson thread there. We're trying to keep the videos in order from beginner to intermediate to advanced. Right now most are beginner videos with a few learn to play a song video and some intermediate videos. Here is the link if you would like to take a look. They are not quite in order but not bad. 

Guitar Lessons On Video ONLY!-No Shredding Clips - Page 3 - Harmony Central Forums

PS: Once we get pretty well everything there is, I am hoping to copy and paster them in a thread here all in order so it can be as helpful to as many as possible. I could start it now but it would be twice the work. Regards, Flip.


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## wintle

If you're local to the 12th fret, this guy's awesome, and right nearby:

SEAN BRAY on Myspace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads

Also, if you just want to learn songs, Gordie Leggat teaches at Encore just down the street (Danforth Rd, just N of Danforth Ave), and he knows a million of them.

Cheers


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## Algonquin

amphead said:


> I took lessons from Richard Smyth for a number of years - great experience. He really helped me with improvisation, technique, playing melodically and note choice. He's a VERY talented player, very humorous and good guy.


Amphead is right about Richard Smyth... excellent musician. And Lyric girl, you are correct that the 12th Fret differs from the chain type music shops offering lessons... and there instructors don't change every six months. 

Good luck with your search!


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## adglad

I'm new here, so sorry if this is too late but...I've taken very good, but too "theory oriented" lesson at 12th Fret. I now go to Toronto Institute For The Enjoyment of Music. I'm enjoying the instruction at my pace, learning what I want to learn. Not the cheapest place in town, but very nice facility with a good vibe. index


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