# Retolexing - Avatar G212H



## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

To quote Whitesnake - "Here We Go Again"...

So I recently purchased this cab (speakerless) with the intent of retolexing it:










Let me just say if I knew then what I know now, I would not have done it!

(To be continued)


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

*And off comes the tolex...*

So, this cab originally had a wheat-coloured grill. The previous owner came up with the brilliant idea of spray painting the grill black. Turns out that wasn't a very clever idea so he trumped his previous idea by glueing a new piece of grillcloth over the existing one he had painted. Oh, it gets better - he then proceeded to spray paint the grillcloth again! I wish I was joking about this. The tolex also seemed to have air bubbles on the top and bottom of the cab when I received it. What a nightmare!!! Could it get any worse? 

Anyway, I did proceed to remove the original red tolex:











By the way, you can probably tell from the previous picture that he used white glue. Again, I really wish I was making this all up.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Wow. I don't envy you right now. I much prefer building from scratch with new materials. I'm sure when you are done it will look great. Keep the pics coming...


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## Peter (Mar 25, 2008)

I bow to the god of tolex'ing! :bow:


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## LaRSin (Nov 27, 2006)

lots of work ahead 

good luck , keep the pic's coming

sigiifa


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

*Full of surprises!!!*

Lot's of work indeed! Some more lovely facts about said cabinet:

- After removing the 2 painted/glued-on layers of grillcloth, I discovered that the frame that holds the grillcloth was broken - I've since glued/clamped it back together.
- Said frame had an ridiculous amount of that glue the previous owner used to glue the 2nd layer of grillcloth still stuck to it - I've since removed all the glue using paint stripper (not fun - I got some on my arm)
- Of course the stripper also removed the black paint - I've since bought black paint from Crappy Tire and repainted the face of the grillcloth holder

Good news - the 'airbubbles' weren't actually in the tolex.
Bad news - what looked like airbubbles were actually areas of the wood where the top layer lifted <insert your choice of offensive swear words here>

The project has been just one lovely suprise after another.

Oh, and the best, have a gander at this picture:










You can't really tell from the pic, but obscenely large chunks of wood came off along with the tolex. Plus, see that little bit of tolex still stuck to the cab? Well, that wonderful piece (about the size of 2 BOSS foot pedals) took me 3 hours to remove - again, I wish I was joking!


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

vds5000 said:


> Lot's of work indeed! Some more lovely facts about said cabinet:
> 
> - After removing the 2 painted/glued-on layers of grillcloth, I discovered that the frame that holds the grillcloth was broken - I've since glued/clamped it back together.
> - Said frame had an ridiculous amount of that glue the previous owner used to glue the 2nd layer of grillcloth still stuck to it - I've since removed all the glue using paint stripper (not fun - I got some on my arm)
> ...


I'll bet that right about then you were thinking that it really hadn't looked that bad in red after all ......


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## forum_crawler (Sep 25, 2008)

I can't tell from the picture, but does the cab have finger joins? It appears that it doesn't from the picture there! kksjur


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

allthumbs56 said:


> I'll bet that right about then you were thinking that it really hadn't looked that bad in red after all ......


My thoughts at that point, in order of sequence:
1.) The cab really hadn't looked that bad in red after all.
2.) It will only take me 3 min to drag it upstairs and throw it out a 2nd story window.
3.) If I follow through with throwing it out the window - a.) my neighbours would be alarmed and probably call the police, b.) I'd have to clean up the mess (i.e. more work).
4.) What a stupid, stupid project to take on.
5.) My retolexing days are definately going to be numbered.




forum_crawler said:


> I can't tell from the picture, but does the cab have finger joins? It appears that it doesn't from the picture there! kksjur


Avatar doesn't use finger joints. They use dado joints.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

vds5000 said:


> My thoughts at that point, in order of sequence:
> 1.) The cab really hadn't looked that bad in red after all.
> 2.) It will only take me 3 min to drag it upstairs and throw it out a 2nd story window.
> 3.) If I follow through with throwing it out the window - a.) my neighbours would be alarmed and probably call the police, b.) I'd have to clean up the mess (i.e. more work).
> ...


Unless you are really into "punishing" yourself (beyond what you have already done with this cab ...and... with your very recent amp "adventures")...why not just try to sell it (as is). 

Think of the money you will save on Tylenol/Advil/Prozac/__________ (whatever)

Sincerely, hope the project progresses well from this point forward.

cheers

Dave


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## forum_crawler (Sep 25, 2008)

vds5000 said:


> My thoughts at that point, in order of sequence:
> 1.) The cab really hadn't looked that bad in red after all.
> 2.) It will only take me 3 min to drag it upstairs and throw it out a 2nd story window.
> 3.) If I follow through with throwing it out the window - a.) my neighbours would be alarmed and probably call the police, b.) I'd have to clean up the mess (i.e. more work).
> ...


Cool, thanks for that info. I have an Avatar closed-back cab that I like. It is loaded with V30s, though I don't think it is nearly as loud as my open-back 2-12 Valve King combo shell loaded with Eminence Wizard & Swamp Thang.

I am looking into building one of my own, and the whole finger joint thing is a bit scary since I have no training in wood working, but have built a shell for the ValveKing head. Dado joints look doable, and I think I will try building one.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

greco said:


> Unless you are really into "punishing" yourself (beyond what you have already done with this cab ...and... with your very recent amp "adventures")...why not just try to sell it (as is).
> 
> Think of the money you will save on Tylenol/Advil/Prozac/__________ (whatever)
> 
> ...


I went to school around your parts (UW) for Math, so trust me, I'm no stranger to punishing myself. When push comes to shove, I just couldn't bring myself to not completing the job - it would bug me for years to come.




forum_crawler said:


> Cool, thanks for that info. I have an Avatar closed-back cab that I like. It is loaded with V30s, though I don't think it is nearly as loud as my open-back 2-12 Valve King combo shell loaded with Eminence Wizard & Swamp Thang.


Don't underestimate the effects that different speakers could have on the perceived volume of the cabinet.




forum_crawler said:


> I am looking into building one of my own, and the whole finger joint thing is a bit scary since I have no training in wood working, but have built a shell for the ValveKing head. Dado joints look doable, and I think I will try building one.


I wouldn't worry about lack of training in wood working. Just practice on junk wood first. I've installed hardwood in almost my entire house (LR, DR, RR, 4 BR's) with absolutely zero woodworking experience.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

vds5000 said:


> I just couldn't bring myself to not completing the job - it would bug me for years to come.


Somehow, given my perception of your high level of determination (which I admire and respect BTW), I suspected this would be your answer.

I would imagine, looking back, that the math now seems like a cakewalk in comparison the re-tolexing (j/k)

Cheers

Dave


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## forum_crawler (Sep 25, 2008)

vds5000 said:


> I wouldn't worry about lack of training in wood working. Just practice on junk wood first. I've installed hardwood in almost my entire house (LR, DR, RR, 4 BR's) with absolutely zero woodworking experience.


I know what you mean, building the head enclosure for the VK212 was a challenge, as was tolexing and adding the racing stripe. I had to buy tools, tolex, glue, this, that, so I provably spent more money on supplies to build the one thing than if I had bought the thing built, but, the satisfaction of learning how to make something from "nothing" was too much to pass up.

I actually just bought a set of dado blades, I guess what I should do now is buy a finger joint jig. I know that you can make these and all, but I think that is for experts. I am still in the "get the tool to do the job" phase, not ready to "build the tool for the job" yet!


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## jimsz (Apr 17, 2009)

vds5000 said:


> My thoughts at that point, in order of sequence:
> 1.) The cab really hadn't looked that bad in red after all.
> 2.) It will only take me 3 min to drag it upstairs and throw it out a 2nd story window.
> 3.) If I follow through with throwing it out the window - a.) my neighbours would be alarmed and probably call the police, b.) I'd have to clean up the mess (i.e. more work).
> ...


Your hard work and determination will not go unacknowledged or ignored. You've made a believer in me never to tackle such a job, and I thank you profusely.

If nothing else, you've probably helped a lot of people with that decision. Kudos. I raise a glass of bubbly to the one that hath made us all that much wiser.

To VDS5000!! All hail a scholar and a gentleman!!


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

*Thanks all for the kind words!!!*

I shan't let anyone down.

Tolex was finally removed. Those areas where the top layer of plywood lifted to form 'bubbles' in the wood were a royal pain in the butt to repair. Just in case anyone comes across the same problem:

1.) Borrow a hand planner from someone (I borrowed one from my g/f's dad). *Do not buy a hand planner* - seriously, how often are you ever going to use it again? This was the first time I ever used one in my life (and that includes never using one in grades 7, 8, 9 & 10 woodshop).
2.) Plane off the bumps - go in the direction of the grain, not the bumps.
3.) Step 2.) will make a big mess because you will definately hit the next layer of wood, and I assure you that the direction of the grain on the next layer will be perpendicular to the direction you are moving the plane. This equals chaos!!!
4.) Once you've planed off the bumps, remove all the splinters that stick out.
5.) Use a scraper to apply a product called 'Plastic Wood'. Let it cure overnight (because trust me, that application will be thick).
6.) Use a sanding block to smooth out the plastic wood (80 grit s/p).
7.) Odds are you'll have to go back to Step 5.) at least one more time.
8.) Once you've got everything smoothed out, prime over the plastic wood to avoid any chemical reactions between the plastic wood and the contact cement.

Since I already was using the plastic wood to fill in the 'bubbles' that I removed, I decided to fill in all other voids caused by the tolex removal - there were plenty. Much more than what I was left with when doing the two Fender amps (Concert, Champ 12).

When that headache was done, it was on to the next headache - removing the glue residue. This step was childs play on the Fender Concert I did a short while back compared to this Avatar cab. I swear Avatar must use NASA-certified adhesive! I had to use this obscenely powerful paint stripper to remove the adhesive, and it still took several iterations of applying, scrapping, applying, scrapping, ...(you get the idea).

So, after doing all that, here's what I ended up with:


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

*Just a couple of notes that I forgot to mention...*

1.) There are a lot of good tutorials online discussing how to retolex. My only issue with them is they all downplay the time involved. One was even alluding to the entire job taking less than a couple of hours. For anyone out there who is interested in this sort of project - that time estimate is total bologna (and the cheap Maple Lodge Farms stuff). 

This is the 3rd retolex project I've done (4th if you consider I had to do the Champ 12 twice). Prepping the cab (removing the tolex, fixing issues, etc.) has already sucked up over 30 hours - this is not including any 'wait time'. This is literally 'hands on' time.

2.) This may all seem overwhelming, and trust me, it can be - but don't be afraid. Mind you, that being said, you have to commit to spending the time and effort. It's a lot of work.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks for all of your detailed posts and pics. I'm sure they will be helpful to others who are considering trying this type of work.

Your warning about the significant amount of time required is, in itself, important to realize.

Keep up the good work. :bow:

Cheers

Dave


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## LaRSin (Nov 27, 2006)

Just out of curiosity , where do you get the materials Tolex etc..


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## rev156 (Mar 2, 2008)

Wow, good for you. I don't think I would be as patient. I recently built a 2X12 cab and that was nothing compared to what you're doing. I went for the stone fleck paint as I didn't want to mess with the covering.
Bring on the finished product.
Cheers


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## forum_crawler (Sep 25, 2008)

LaRSin said:


> Just out of curiosity , where do you get the materials Tolex etc..


If you have a Fabricland near where you live, you should go and have a looksie... Not that I did that, nor get a membership so that I could get the tolex/vinyl for half the cost...


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

forum_crawler said:


> I actually just bought a set of dado blades, I guess what I should do now is buy a finger joint jig. I know that you can make these and all, but I think that is for experts. I am still in the "get the tool to do the job" phase, not ready to "build the tool for the job" yet!


a box joint jig is really easy to build. Really. I'll snap a pic of mine and post it here for you.

When I built the head cab for my Marshall, the joints were tight enough I didn't use any fasteners, just glue and tapped it together.

====
this side faces the blade









this is the back.









all it is is a slot cut by your dado blade, a space equal to the dado space, another dado slot with a pin in it. You butt the board up to the pin, cut the hole, then lift it over and onto the pin, cut the next one, etc. Getting exact alignment can be a touch tricky, if you notice I have a couple little shims in the slot with the pin.

don't worry about the extra white board with the chrome fasteners in it, I've got that on there so I can fine tune for next time.


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## forum_crawler (Sep 25, 2008)

Hey, thanks a lot, that looks very simple to make. Since I am using 3/4" plywood, that will be the intended width of the joints, and your sample here makes it look very doable indeed.

I had seen several samples on YouTube but some of those jigs were way too advanced for me. This will get me started in the right direction! so I see some woodworking in the near future for me.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

the joint will be the size of your dado blade cut, which probably won't be the exact size of your plywood. I stacked my dado blade set together, it was close to 3/4", but not exact.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

*Reponses...and plenty of them!*



greco said:


> Thanks for all of your detailed posts and pics. I'm sure they will be helpful to others who are considering trying this type of work.
> 
> Your warning about the significant amount of time required is, in itself, important to realize.
> 
> ...


No problem at all. Others have contributed on here in the past with info I was looking for, so I figured it was my turn.




LaRSin said:


> Just out of curiosity , where do you get the materials Tolex etc..


Believe it or not - eBay. At least that's where I usually get the tolex and grillcloth from. I bought the 'dogbone' Fender handle and the Fender knobs (for the 'Concert') from various authorized Fender dealers - depended on who had what in stock. Let me tell you, those stupid little knobs cost an arm and a leg! I had to buy 2 packs and I think they were $25-30/pack (of 6). The handle wasn't really much cheaper.

One place that I will try eventually is Steamcomusic. I think they sell tolex and grillcloth as well.




rev156 said:


> Wow, good for you. I don't think I would be as patient. I recently built a 2X12 cab and that was nothing compared to what you're doing. I went for the stone fleck paint as I didn't want to mess with the covering.
> Bring on the finished product.
> Cheers


I would think building a cab would be at the very least as tough as retolexing an existing one. It's a project I will tackle eventually. But probably not for at least a year or two. Finished product will happen soon - I'm guessing before the weekend is over.




forum_crawler said:


> If you have a Fabricland near where you live, you should go and have a looksie... Not that I did that, nor get a membership so that I could get the tolex/vinyl for half the cost...


Fabricland's prices are good, but I wasn't too impressed with the products they had at the local store. None of the vinyl looked 'legit' enough for my projects - if that makes any sense. Well, that's not 100% true - I did buy some black vinyl from them and asked my mum to make me a new reverb bag. She had no clue what I was talking about, so I just explained what I needed (incl. the dimensions), and she made it.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

*The adventure continues...*

I certainly hope no one out there thought that my silence meant that it has been clear sailing. So here's the latest update:

My 'hero' (the previous owner of the cab) in a moment of sheer brilliance felt it was necessary to reapply the 'Avatar' logo on the 2nd grillcloth (that he glued and spray painted on the original grillcloth - which he also spraypainted) using some kind of funky industrial adhesive. I recall speaking to Dave at Avatar Speakers several months ago about applying a logo on the grillcloth and he stressed to use silicone and nothing else. Apparently this cab's previous owner did not speak to Dave. I previously took both layers of grillcloth off the frame and tried removing the logo. Guess what? It's stuck on their good. I tried using a hairdryer to heat the adhesive - no luck. I tried paint remover - nothing. So I just cut the grillcloth around the logo. No worries folks, I still have a trick or two up my sleeve. I will not be deterred by this latest stumbling block.

The new black grillcloth I purchased is now on the frame. I've also installed gold piping along the edges of the frame. For anyone thinking of doing this on their own cab, remember to take a bit off the height and width of the frame to account for the extra space the piping is going to take. I used my table saw to remove about 1/8" from the top and the side. To fasten the grillcloth and the piping around the frame, I used a manual stapler (not an office stapler). It's times like this that I wish I didn't sell my air compressor. An air-assisted staplegun would have made my life much easier!

And the final note for today's update - it is with great sadness that I report the passing of my hairdryer. We've been through some good times and some bad over the past 15 or so years. The poor thing didn't stand a chance against that adhesive. Damn that adhesive! Conair, you will be missed, but never forgotton.


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## vds5000 (Apr 14, 2008)

*Finally...*

Without further adieu... (or is it adeiu?):










Note that I am not 100% happy with my grillcloth application - it's not taut enough. I'll fix it sometime in the near future. In any case, it's finally done. With the exception of one more specific project, I am going into semi-retirement (at least for the next couple of years).

Then again, I've learned to never say never :smile:

C

P.S. Special thanks to the folks on here who offered their support!


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