# Recordings



## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

Looking for some feedback - these are my first couple of recordings.

The drums were done using MIDI. 

And in case it doesn't become immediately obvious... I'm not really a singer or guitarist. 

http://www.soundclick.com/13to3


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

Paul said:


> You don't sound happy.......I didn't pay enough attention to the lyrics to determine if the songs are supposed to be somewhat morose....but that is the impression I got.
> 
> The melody lines are fairly tight, in that they hang around the tonic and don't do any thing dramatic to grab my attention. There were no "A-Ha" moments in the songs. Then again, there are no "A-Ha" moments in most of the Billboard Hot 100....so what the H-E-double-hockey-sticks do I know.
> 
> ...


LOL @ me not sounding happy... the songs aren't really supposed to be morose... reflective, maybe. 

They were PC based recordings. Maybe that's why I sounded unhappy... I was getting really frustrated with Ableton and my laptop in general. 

Thanks for listening! I really appreciate the feedback.


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## Wheeman (Dec 4, 2007)

I enjoyed those recordings. Your voice has a very _They Might Be Giants_ vibe to it. Bring it out more though; it does get lost in the background stuff.

"House on the Hilltop": Feels raw, a good thing though. Its not a happy song per say, but reflective like you said. Nice chorus. Very much enjoyed it.

"Sidewalks": Again, raw. Where'd the piano go in the beginning? Bring it out more as it gets drowned out by the guitar quickly. 

In the world of over-processed music, I don't get to listen to the raw stuff much. I want to hear more, keep it up.:rockon:


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

Thanks Wheeman. 

I had the gain & input vol on my tubepre pretty much maxed out and increasing the volume in Ableton seemed to change my voice and make it a little too overpowering. Maybe I should be bringing all the other tracks (the 50 million guitar tracks...) down instead?


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

hi jane- i like these songs, all the parts fit very well, and i love the way you harmonize. and your voice and guitar have an atonal (if thats the correct word) effect to them that complement each other very well



> Maybe I should be bringing all the other tracks (the 50 million guitar tracks...) down instead?


seems like its the bass frequencies, and the snare drum that are overpowering your voice. i would save these mixes regardless of what you do. 
doesnt sound like the work of someone who doesnt really sing or play guitar. its better than my stuff, and i often sing and play guitar:smile:


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

"little angel". the vocals are mixed too far back. the bass is a little undefined... you go off-beat a little at the front, you might want to take another stab at the performance itself? the song is strong enough, kind of has a fugazi vibe to the guitars which is cool. some good ideas there. liked the false ending quite a bit. maybe a bit too long to the payoff (the big rock outro). didn't catch the lyrical content because of the mix. minimalist drums are very cool, so don't sweat those. to get more vocal "pop", try: compressing them lightly, eq'ing them with a bit of a bump around 5k, stereo pan the other instruments lightly off center, but leave the vocals in the middle, you can also double the vocal track for some great presence.... i'd also change the snare sound to something sharper.

"house on the hilltop". better mix, for sure. the bass sounds better, although it's still pretty indistinct. the BGs are really good. the chorus change is pretty sloppy.. you might consider changing things to make the transition from half time a little easier, although i think you're selling yourself short on the "not a singer/guitarist" comment.. you're doing a good job here, the harmonies are great really... kind of a velvet underground vibe happening that i quite like. the vocals should be reverberated, that will help the pitchier moments a little.. are you mixing these on small speakers? might be why the bass is so far out front... 

"sidewalks". the piano is too dry (needs verb). the opening guitar, you might pan it center until the both guitars kick in (just an idea, not sure). the vocals are still too far back. this is probably because you don't like the sound of your voice, lol... i always mix my voice too far back.. the subconscious is a pain sometimes. the distorted guitars work well together, good job there. i like the song's hook, it works for sure. the lead guitars should be pushed up in the mix during the lead.. great lead, j mascis would be proud! this is the best mix yet though, overall.. works the best together. 

good work. overall, two thumbs up 

PS this is all stream of consciousness on the first listen, i hope everything i said is constructive (it's meant to be).. if i hadn't liked the first one, i wouldn't have even listened to the other two, lol..


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

Thanks for the comments! I really appreciate constructive criticism... I'm new to this recording thing... and the whole mixing and eqing thing is still going a bit above my head.

suttree, for little angel... when you say "other instruments" - the only things I have panned dead centre are the lead vocals, part of the drums and bass. So i guess you mean to pan the bass and the drums off center instead? Does it matter which way I pan the bass? (it feels so unbalanced to pan one way) What do you use to EQ tracks? And I can't change the snare without changing the whole kit, unfortunately. I'm mixing through earphones and through M-Audio Studiopro3 speakers. And when you say the bass is indistinct... do you mean that it's muddy or that it's so far front that it's taking over?

And no, I don't really like my voice that much... it's so weird hearing myself sing.... really, really, really weird.

Oh, and I bought a condenser mic (all the vocals so far was done through an sm 58) and played with it a bit (and recorded a new song... lol. i'm addicted.) and I like it better... it seems a lot "Cleaner" somehow. But what do I know. *shrugs*

Thanks so much for your help!


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

well, bass i personally leave centered (although the beatles and others like to pan it hard left or right)... the drums are a stereo mix from the MIDI source? try panning the channels out create a "pocket" for the vocals. this is the same thing you do with the EQ, too... at its height (which i certainly don't reach), mixing involves making space for each instrument so that they sound really big all together. there's a lot of ways to achieve this, and none of them are right all the time.. your ears have to be the final judge. generally when you're panning, think of yourself facing the stage... is the singer in the middle (usually is)? place the guitars left and right, where's the bass player (usually stage left, by the drums)? you understand what i mean? you want to build that stage in teh mix. then you want to reverberate it like you were in the room with them.. 

what are you recording to (which software)? you should be able to record the drums as a MIDI track (not as an audio track), and then go in and change the sounds as you like. 

the condenser mic will help the vocal sound a lot, you'll have a lot more definition, so they should stand out more.. as to the bass, i mean it's lacking upper mids, there's no "shape" to the bass, it's a warm fuzzy sound.... try adding some upper midrange on the EQ to help bring back the note definition.

sorry, i don't think i'm explaining things all that well this morning... let me know what i'm not getting across...


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

Cool. I think the individual components of the drumkit can be panned but i might be wrong. I'm using ableton live and the drum sounds are part of kits and I don't think I can swap out specfic parts of the kit. (but maybe i'm wrong)

The explanation of visualizing a band on stage makes a lot of sense

I thought I had my bass EQed in a frowny face with quite a bit of mids. Maybe it's just the specific patch that I was using.


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

if you're using triggered samples, you can. if they're generated sounds, you still should be able to. remember though, that your ears are what's important... make it sound like YOU hear it... 

re bass: more upper mids, more of a sneer than a frowny face, lol. you want to keep the "pong" on the top of the note.


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

suttree said:


> if you're using triggered samples, you can. if they're generated sounds, you still should be able to. remember though, that your ears are what's important... make it sound like YOU hear it...
> 
> re bass: more upper mids, more of a sneer than a frowny face, lol. you want to keep the "pong" on the top of the note.


i have no idea idea how the ableton kits work but i'll look into it. maybe read the manual.

oh. hm. i should try eq-ing my bass like that live too... maybe it'll help keep from disappearing into the mix sometimes. it feels unbalanced to have an EQ that isn't symmetrical on both sides (i have a b.math... i kind of like symmetrical things) but i'll try it later on or at my next band practice. 

it sounds funny that i want a sneer rather than a frowny face. :food-smiley-004:


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

well, try it live for sure, but remember that different rooms will sound different from each other, and so will your bass. one of the reasons you don't hear your bass as well on stage is because low frequencies are very long, and so they don't fully form until they're many feet from the amp (usually off the stage). 

if you do read the manual, you must realize that you'll be among the (unwashed) minority... hope you deal well with ostracism 

actually, reading the manual is an excellent idea, and i bet it will have a bunch of great info to get you deeper into the recording process. you can also go to the library and read up on recording techniques there. the formats have changed (analog tape or ADAT has become computer), but the microphone and effect techniques are still valid.


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

Yeah... when we soundchecked at our gig and I walked out onto the dancefloor, I could feel it vibrate from the subs and I could definitely hear it. But my bass still didn't sound loud enough in my in-ears. Pfft. lol.

I borrowed a couple (okay... five...) books about recording and mixing from the waterloo public library. some of them are fairly old... lol... but they (and wikipedia) definitely helped me understand the "science" behind compression, among other things. At least I don't feel so dumb when someone says "low pass filter" now.

I never read manuals... the only time I've done it in recent memory is when I couldn't find the wireless switch on my laptop. hah. 


PS. I uploaded another song, if anyone's interested. lol.


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## zinga (Apr 22, 2007)

the tunes are good very good as 4 the recording in time you like all of us will get in the end. and please bring out your voice i like it. i love ppl who wright there own music. myself like to make something out of nuthing lol. thank you 4 shareing. later :rockon:


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

jane said:


> Yeah... when we soundchecked at our gig and I walked out onto the dancefloor, I could feel it vibrate from the subs and I could definitely hear it. But my bass still didn't sound loud enough in my in-ears. Pfft. lol.
> 
> I borrowed a couple (okay... five...) books about recording and mixing from the waterloo public library. some of them are fairly old... lol... but they (and wikipedia) definitely helped me understand the "science" behind compression, among other things. At least I don't feel so dumb when someone says "low pass filter" now.
> 
> ...


the vocals sound a lot better in the mix here. i like the instrumental break a lot, and the piano is a good sound for the vocal, not too bright. still want to hear reverb on the recording (although not a ton)... 

i think the song might need to be trimmed down in length? sorry this one's not hitting home for me as much as the others, although as i was saying i think the mix is good.

yah, manuals are for little girls and housewives, right?:wink:
actually, these days you're better off buckling down and reading the darned thing. all the software and even the hardware has become very feature-rich, and you can easily miss things that you don't want to miss. good bathroom reading, i always say... just put em with the how-to books from the library.. that's pretty much how i learned the two things i know.


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

suttree said:


> the vocals sound a lot better in the mix here. i like the instrumental break a lot, and the piano is a good sound for the vocal, not too bright. still want to hear reverb on the recording (although not a ton)...
> 
> i think the song might need to be trimmed down in length? sorry this one's not hitting home for me as much as the others, although as i was saying i think the mix is good.
> 
> ...


Do you mean more reverb on the piano or on the track as a whole? The reverb button on my keyboard was on, I was using the sustain pedal and there's reverb added afterwards to the piano track too. Maybe it's still not enough?

The track probably isn't as good because I wrote and recorded it within the span of 3-4 hours (ie. an afternoon)... there wasn't as much thought put into it. I kinda like the vocals on it better though - they're not as cringe-worthy. And yeah, the song is just a tad long..........  Maybe more than a tad.

And I'll read the manual after I'm done with finals :food-smiley-004:


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

no i mean reverb on the vocal. the keyboard sounds good.

re: the song, i might just be having an off day, too.. funny thing about songs, they change all the time.


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

oh... gotcha.

thanks for answering all my dumb questions... and taking time to explain stuff!


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

jane said:


> oh... gotcha.
> 
> thanks for answering all my dumb questions... and taking time to explain stuff!


no such thing as dumb questions, only dumb answers. also, i have some extra free time right now, lol 

if you have more questions, fire away.


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

*Help!*

Okay, what am I doing wrong now? I posted a song called "Me Versus You". On the vocals, you can hear "distorting" at song points (primarily at the peaks and lows). I have some compression on the vocals. I've brought the lead vocal track up and the entire mix down. There's compression on the entire mix. Why is it distorting? I'm getting this on some other songs now too. Including some that I had mixed before. I don't think I've changed how I've done anything (generally).

Jane


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

Ignore that last post. I figured it out. It's the first compressor on the vocas. I took it off and it's better now.


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

hey!!! that's getting better.. right on.. you're getting better sounding mixes now... the vocal still needs to be a bit louder, as far as i can tell, but i'm listening on (excellent) headphones, or (decent gaming) computer speakers not monitors, so take that with a grain of salt, as it were. the mix sounds a lot bigger, more soundstaged..


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## GuitarPix (Jan 11, 2007)

Hey Jane - haven't been here for awhile and thought I'd throw in the proverbial 2 bits.

I can definitely hear an improvement in technique the further down the list of songs as I listened to them. There's certainly some good things you're doing and I'd say keep going and push yourself further - it'll be worth it.

After 30 years of playing guitar I decided to learn to sing - and while I'm not a great singer myself, I've learned a few tricks you might be interested in. 

The first was that I had to sing out my nose and my butt. What I mean by that is that tone production (from many things I've read and heard) comes from the nose - a great exercise I learned was to hum the tune to a song, feel the vibration in my nose, and sing to get that same vibration. That made for a little nicer tone in my voice. I think your voice sounds better for that, but you might try it. As for "Singing out my butt" what I learned was that for breath control, breath out while singing like you're doing a "number 2." That give the diaphragm the support it needs to control breath and get a more even tone. Another trick I learned was that at the back of the mouth/top of the throat is a flap of skin that can be raised with a little concentration - kind of like "yawning on the inside" as one instructor said. That helped me get more tone out of my voice. Again - you probably have more tone anyways, but I thought I'd share that one.

As for performing, something I learned very recently and should have been obvious to me is that the chorus of the song should be done with more emphasis than the verses. Give more emotion/strength on the choruses and it gives the songs a great dynamic that really appeals to people.

All this rambling may or may not be of help to you, but I just wanted to share what I've learned.

By the way, a great book on recording I've been reading is The Art of Mixing by David Gibson. If your library doesn't have it, ask if they can get it on "inter-library" loan.

The comment I'd make about your recording is something I learned in my own - the individual tracks should be at a bit lower volume than I'd thought they should be, so when they are all added together the total output volume adds up to close to ideal.

Best of luck with your tunes.

Neil


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

I've read through most of that book, actually. My local library has it and I need to borrow it again to finish it (I got caught up in exams last time). I really liked its visual approach to explaining where everything should go because it made things so much clearer. There's just some tracks that seem to "jump" out more and the book does a good job of explaining how to get that effect. 

Now to put it into practice...

I got this book "Set Your Voice Free" by Roger... someone... it's supposed to be good and I need to start reading it.

And yes, I realize that on some of the songs, the individual tracks needed to be softer (they were peaking/clipping/whatever)... I just usually mix from the drums up and I always feel like whatever I mix in next needs to be "heard"... which sometimes results in guitar tracks that are too loud, especially when they're doubled and stuff... it's something I need to keep making myself remember.

Thanks for the help!


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

hey jane. are you familiar with the idea of "subgroups" yet? they're an excellent solution for the problem you're describing. what you do is mix the drums all to one subgroup, to where you're happy with the overall sound. then if you need to turn the drums down, you can turn them all down at once via the subgroup.


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

Yep. The drums are midi though, so that isn't even the issue... I think I just need more practicing judging 1) how loud i should be recording tracks and 2) how loud individual tracks should be in the final mix.


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

jane said:


> Yep. The drums are midi though, so that isn't even the issue... I think I just need more practicing judging 1) how loud i should be recording tracks and 2) how loud individual tracks should be in the final mix.


well, there's a lot of wisdom to the idea that a recording isn't something you finish, it's something you walk away from....


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## drak10687 (May 24, 2007)

Hey, intresting stuff, I listend through all the tracks. Sorry, can't give you much advice though. I will say that I think I liked the last one, Sidewalks, the best, and I thought that it would be intresting to hear your voice accompanied by a male voice, on that track, or just in general. I guess thats kinda hard to do by yourself... but maybe something you can try out if you have the chance.

Keep it up!


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## jane (Apr 26, 2006)

Where? During the choruses?

We're trying Sidewalks and Little Angel in my band... which has a male lead singer.


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