# What's with the fake Les Pauls on eBay?



## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

Honestly, it's starting to get on my nerves. I feel so bad for the suckers that end up buying guitars like this one:

Fakey fake fake fake

Like, if "The seller makes no respresentations that it is a Gibson Les Paul.", then why call it a damn "Gibson" in the auction title? Oh, that's right, because the seller is a ripoff artist. Actually, not much of an artist. More of a ripoff.......... uh.............. loser (I've got nothing this morning). 

Anyway, it seems like I see a couple of these a week now. And every one of them has some cheeky way of kind of, almost, maybe admitting that they know it's a fake, but leaving it vague enough that a possible buyer thinks they're getting a real Gibson for cheap.

China = fake stuff capital of the world.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

You more or less have to figure that any Gibson LP selling for $500.00 can only be one of two things. 1) It's a fake or 2) the person selling it is insane.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

It's clearly a big problem. There are more and more auctions with obvious fakes, well, obvious to someone who know a thing or two about Gibsons.

The sad thing is that the guys making these guitars will get more and more skillful at fooling people as time goes by. Most of the obvious ones have cosmetic features that are instantly distinguishable from the real deal. Sometimes it's as simple as three screws holding the truss rod cover on instead of two.


E-bay needs to clamp down HARD on sellers who try to pass these pieces of crap off as high end guitars.

Yes, if you get a Gibson Les Paul for $200 you should know instantly that something's amiss, but the person who doesn't know guitars doesn't deserve to be ripped off any more than the experienced player/collector.


In the auction posted in this thread the seller clearly states that he is NOT saying it's a real Les Paul. He's also not saying it's a fake.


I've seen lots of auctions where no such disclosure is made.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Here's another, it's a little pricier Drool 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1958-Les-Paul-Burst-PAF-Bz-Vintage-Max_W0QQitemZ190036426769QQihZ009QQcategoryZ38086QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

You make a good point Milkman, I suppose there are many people out there that see it and think, hey what a deal. They may not know what to look for or question it. So it is a big problem for sure. eBay does do a fair amount of tracking on items. The way they get most of that stuff off the site is from people reporting it as fake, then they jump on it fairly quick. I have seen a lot of auctions get canceled like that. One way therse guys get around it is by doing a 2-3 day auction in hopes that it sells right away before the eBay police get them.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I've seen lots of auctions where no such disclosure is made.


Same here. The one I posted was downright generous in tipping off the person that it's a fake.

The problem is that not all of them have a BIN for 500 bucks. I see them all the time trying to sell for 1500 or so.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

nine said:


> Same here. The one I posted was downright generous in tipping off the person that it's a fake.



This guy is from Richmond Hill though. He either got ripped off himself and is now trying to find a sucker to take the POS off of his hands, or he's doing it as a business and buying and selling them.


By the way, I reported the auction. The title is misrepresentation in itslef.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Interesting, I checked his feedback and he sold the same guitar to someone else and advertised it as made in the USA. Buyer left positive feedback.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

I saw one the other day where someone who got ripped off posted an auction with "do not bid!" in the description just to get the word out there that there's lots of fakes around. Felt bad for the guy, but thought it was good of him to let people see how easy it can be to get burnt on eBay.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

I just looked through my history and found the page where the guy shared his experience of getting ripped off.

eBay removed it. Why does that not surprise me? Haha.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Interesting, I checked his feedback and he sold the same guitar to someone else and advertised it as made in the USA. Buyer left positive feedback.



Positive feedback?


Sounds like a shill to me.


Made in the USA my a$$. Try China or maybe Thailand.

Hell if I want a fake Gibson I'll buy an Epiphone (Kidding, sorry guys).


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

Indeed. That feedback was shilltastic. Probably just another account the guy opened up himself.

Usually, I've noticed that the person selling these fakes will have 15 or so feedbacks, all from the last two months and nearly every one of them will be for 15 cent items like advertisements cut out of magazines and stuff. Heh heh.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

GONE


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

gtrguy said:


> People are falling for this scam...we had aguy try to trade in his "Gibson" Les Paul that he bought from Ebay...telling him it was a Chinese made fake was no fun at all...
> 
> 
> gtrguy



Yeah one of the problems with this sort of thing is that there are likely to be multiple victims from each guitar.

Anyone who knows guitars at all will know this is NO Les Paul and the unscrupulous will try to pass it on to the next sucker.


If the guitar has the name Gibson on it and it's a fake, it should be burned.


If the guy thought he could trade it in at a store, he probably didn't know he had been scammed until you told him, but it's also conceiveable he knew and hoped you wouldn't.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

Hey gtrguy- I know you from some other nerd forums! :rockon2:


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Milkman said:


> If the guitar has the name Gibson on it and it's a fake, it should be burned.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Sneaky said:


> Milkman said:
> 
> 
> > If the guitar has the name Gibson on it and it's a fake, it should be burned.
> ...


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

GONE


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

gtrguy said:


> Hehehe...awesome...yeah, I tend to use the same username wherever I go...what forum and who?
> 
> gtrguy


"ninepound" on the MB forums. Like I said- nerdville. Hahaha.


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## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

Why would the Trainwreck guys put Marshall on their stuff. That's like putting Ibanez on a Gibson:smile: 

Speaking of which how's the Lester Mike?


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

GONE


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Max is well know maker of fake Gibsons. He made them to vintage spec better than Gibson, or so the it is said. He doesn't make them anymore and they are rare. It doesn't surprise me that go for as much as or for more than a Trainwreck amp.


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## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

I think I've seen one of his LP customs I think. It was as good as any LP Custom.

I was shown a sunburst custom by a friend he told that it was a counterfit.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

I love the auctions where they start out by saying "I have owned this guitar since 1995 ( or whatever is appropriate for the serial #)" and then have to backtrack when the guitar's authenticity is questioned.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

yet another one

This one contains another line I've seen- that the guitar was built for the overseas market. Hahaha. Luckily for everyone, the Ace Frehley guitar is possibly the ugliest Les Paul ever and nobody would ever buy it. :smile:


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## SCREEM (Feb 2, 2006)

nine said:


> yet another one
> 
> This one contains another line I've seen- that the guitar was built for the overseas market. Hahaha. Luckily for everyone, the Ace Frehley guitar is possibly the ugliest Les Paul ever and nobody would ever buy it. :smile:


Rofl...it's uglier than sin :tongue:


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## Coustfan'01 (Sep 27, 2006)

nine said:


> yet another one
> 
> This one contains another line I've seen- that the guitar was built for the overseas market. Hahaha. Luckily for everyone, the Ace Frehley guitar is possibly the ugliest Les Paul ever and nobody would ever buy it. :smile:


How do you know (beside the price ) that it's a fake ? I don't know gibsons that much , but I can't spot anything...


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

SCREEM said:


> Rofl...it's uglier than sin :tongue:


This guy is in Orangeville... whats with all these Canadians and these fake LP's ?


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

Coustfan'01 said:


> How do you know (beside the price ) that it's a fake ? I don't know gibsons that much , but I can't spot anything...


The headstock shape, Gibson logo positioning and truss rod cover tell me it's fake. For whatever reason, the Chinese just can't seem to figure out how to trace a truss rod cover to get the shape right and use only two screws to put it on.

Part of me wonders if they don't make it right just to be at least a tiny bit honest. It couldn't be that hard to copy.

And GuitarsCanada- I've noticed that there are a lot of them coming from Canada.


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## SCREEM (Feb 2, 2006)

I think ebay is just too risky, there are so many ways to get screwed. I just sold my 5150 and did not even offer it here, for the sole reason that shipping can be dicey. I will only buy/sell future gear in person on anything more than $500 :zzz:


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## SCREEM (Feb 2, 2006)

check this out..looks cheap for a historic :confused-smiley-010 

http://montreal.kijiji.ca/c-acheter...P-Custom-Historic-Collection-W0QQAdIdZ6752315


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

What bothers me is that at some point these guitars will pass through enough hands that they will be sold as legitimate to some unsuspecting and uninformed buyer who doesn't know better.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> What bothers me is that at some point these guitars will pass through enough hands that they will be sold as legitimate to some unsuspecting and uninformed buyer who doesn't know better.


I agree. And a lot of first time buyers that are going to think Gibsons are pieces of shit because they owned one of these things.

When buying a used Gibson, always check with people who know, and always email the serial # to Gibson to confirm it. 

By the way, it isn't just Gibsons they are knocking off, they are doing Fenders too.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

jroberts said:


> If I were a conspiracy type, I would think it's all a plot by Gibson to kill the E-Bay market for their guitars and ensure that all sales of Gibsons (either new or used) are through official dealers that they can bully into keeping prices high.


That is a good theory, not sure they would actually do that though. Most of the real ones out there now are being sold on eBay my legit businesses and they love it. Have increased sales 10 fold.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

I guess I haven't really noticed the knockoff Fenders because I don't look for them. That's not good news though. 

And jroberts- that's a pretty good theory you've got going there. If you're running out of tinfoil I'll mail you some! :wink:


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

Coustfan'01 said:


> How do you know (beside the price ) that it's a fake ? I don't know gibsons that much , but I can't spot anything...


I have a real Ace, believe me that guitar and mine look totally different. Alot of these fakes are easy to spot just from their cheapness. The Ace originally sold for about $6,000 10 years ago. These fakes are made for about $100. If you put them side by side, its very easy to spot..................


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## XIII (Oct 18, 2006)

I don't see what you guys are so upset about. In both of the links given, it is clear that the seller has pointed out that the axes are NOT real Gibsons.Anyone using ebay should understand the concept of caveat emptor, or stay out of the water.


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## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

He's right if you take an electric in the water you'll get crucified.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

XIII said:


> I don't see what you guys are so upset about. In both of the links given, it is clear that the seller has pointed out that the axes are NOT real Gibsons.Anyone using ebay should understand the concept of caveat emptor, or stay out of the water.


No, they weren't clear. They were misleading. Or how about this one?


Try this fake on for size

Just for giggles I emailed the guy and asked for the serial number. He played the "I don't know anything about guitars" line and claimed that he didn't know where to look for it. And then told some sob story about how it was his brother's and his brother died so now he has to sell it. Bull. Shite.

And then surprise, surprise, he stopped the auction.


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## XIII (Oct 18, 2006)

nine said:


> No, they weren't clear. They were misleading.


Go back and take another look. In the first ad(my capitalization on the "clues")...."The guitar LOOKS LIKE a Gibson Les Paul.The seller MAKES NO REPRESENTATION that it is a Gibson Les Paul."

In the second ad...."This is a 1958 Les Paul BUILT BY Peter "Max" Barnett.The "Max " guitars are probably the only Les Paul REPLICA that...."

How much more clarity does one need than that? 

I would agree, however, that the one you posted is a clear misrepresentation as there was no disclaimer or information to point out it was a copy.


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## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

In the first ad the title was "GIBSON Les Paul". Not "fake" les paul or "Les Paul Copy". And he doesn't say in the auction that it _isn't_ a real one (despite knowing damn well that it isn't), now does he? That's the misrepresentation right there. Why else would you lie about the guitar in the auction title? 

In fact, in a lot of these kind of auctions it seems pretty clear that it's worded that way so gullible people plunk thier money down. Not everyone is so critical. A mom that doesn't know anything about guitars but hasn't stopped hearing about how her kid wants a Gibson Les Paul for christmas, for instance. She's gonna get burnt.

In the second one that I posted (the Ace Frehley one) the person says that it's a Gibson for some magical "overseas market". Well, that's just a bullshitty way of saying that it's a fake.

Not sure about the Max Barnett one. That's kind of a different thing and isn't the cheap Chinese crap that I was referring to in my first post of this thread.


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## XIII (Oct 18, 2006)

I will not argue that the ads were intended to misrepresent, but will stand by my assertion that in the two I commented on, the clues were specific enough that no-one should be fooled. Wherever you go there will be wolves and there will be sheep. Let us hope that we fall into neither category.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

I just started reporting these to ebay. There is a guy in Canada selling "Gibson Les Paul Supremes." Sure, once you read the description he says it is made in China (although the back of the headstock clearly read "Made in the USA) but it is still an act of deception.

It's not just the rip off that is problematic; I am SO sick of searching ebay only to bring up 1000 fakes, spams, and unrelated products.

TG


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## jcon (Apr 28, 2006)

traynor_garnet said:


> I just started reporting these to ebay. There is a guy in Canada selling "Gibson Les Paul Supremes." Sure, once you read the description he says it is made in China (although the back of the headstock clearly read "Made in the USA) but it is still an act of deception.
> 
> It's not just the rip off that is problematic; I am SO sick of searching ebay only to bring up 1000 fakes, spams, and unrelated products.
> 
> TG


I just saw that LP Supreme this morning. He claims to be in Canada (which may be true) but the item location reads China, Canada. Either way, it's not right.
Below is a link to an article which could apply to guitars, should Gibson or any other big brand decide to take on ebay. I doubt we'll see an end to fraudulent products being sold on ebay anytime soon.
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_41/b4004060.htm


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

The sad part of it is that we have to do this sifting to begin with. It is unfortunate but it is going to get worse as time goes on. You can get anything made in China now and get it with any logo. So there will always be those that try to pull a fast one.

That is one of the reasons I started the auction site, plus we have this forum as well where we have trusted sellers. Clearly, we will never have the volume and choices that eBay can offer, but maybe someday we will have enough of a base that we can shop and buy without fear of being ripped off.


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## Davestp1 (Apr 25, 2006)

nine said:


> No, they weren't clear. They were misleading. Or how about this one?
> 
> 
> Try this fake on for size
> ...




I emailed him as well and he claimed he bought it from a guitar store in Toronto. I emailed him back pointing out his feedback shows he bought a chinese made guitar and surprise surprise, no response.


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## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

Please excuse the language. This quote is in his feedback.

"Puts your mother's fart, from your ancestor 18 generations, bids does not buy, the animal was inferior"

The only negative. It was from China I think.

Time for Ebay to clean up it's act.

I love the bad Les Paul Signature on the head stock.


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