# Sick guitar



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

One of my acoustics is sick! Despite the fact that it lives in its TRIC case, taken out only to be played and/or to re-water the sponge in the humidifier, it's developed a 2-inch long crack on the back. It's splitting along the seam between the two back pieces. 

I only purchased the guitar this past summer, so I've queried Simon & Patrick as to potential warranty concerns. If that doesn't pan out, can anyone recommend a good luthier in the Mississauga or Kitchener/Waterloo areas who would be able to repair a seam crack and restore the finish in that area?

Help!


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Oh man, that sucks! Do you have electric heating in your house? A dry atmosphere with electric heaters can be brutal on an acoustic, even if it's in it's case with a humidifier.

Depending on the work that needs to be done, it can be quite costly. I don't know what you paid for the guitar, but if it was an inexpensive guitar, it might cost more to fix than the guitar is worth (a good tech ain't cheap!). Hopefully Simon & Patrick will be able to help you out.


----------



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

Thankfully natural gas furnace. I've always left my acoustics in their cases (with case humidifiers) throughout the winters for this very reason. Took her out to play last night and noticed the crack on the back. Makes me sad. It's not like she's a super-expensive guitar ($500) but I wasn't expecting something like this to happen 6 months into her life.

Argh.


----------



## Alain Moisan (Jan 16, 2010)

Your best bet is to contact Godin, but usually cracks are not garanted as it as always assumed that they're the result of bad humidification (dispite the fact that you seemed to have preoperly taken care of this...).

If they do not want to help you, repairing it shouldn't be a big issue if you are not too concern with repairing the finish. Just fixing a crack is not that big of a deal. I'd love torefer you to a luthier in that area but I don't know any!


----------



## Mike MacLeod (Nov 27, 2006)

Humidifiers are only of value if you know what the humidity is. Check out a book called "The Acoustic guitar Owner's manual" - Stringletter publications.
I have posted the appropriate section here: http://public.me.com/mi3ke 

It doesn't hurt to know how humidity affects the guitar. The guitar will "talk" to you if you know how to listen to it. These pages will help. 

Godin /Lasido will probably honour warranty on this. Or at least they should, whether they are responsible or not.


----------



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

Yeah, I was worried that something like this would not be covered by warranty but I figured it was best to try. I'll see what they say but in the meantime I'll keep researching luthiers in the area.


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Is it a crack in the actual wood or just a crack in the finish?


----------



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

Mike MacLeod said:


> Humidifiers are only of value if you know what the humidity is. Check out a book called "The Acoustic guitar Owner's manual" - Stringletter publications.
> I have posted the appropriate section here: http://public.me.com/mi3ke


Thanks - I've downloaded the pages and have taken a quick flip through them. I'll be more vigilant in the future, I can assure you.



hollowbody said:


> Is it a crack in the actual wood or just a crack in the finish?


Good question. I don't know the terminology, but the back is 2 pieces, joined in the centre by a narrow 3rd bit of wood. The split is occurring along where that 3rd piece of wood is joined to the bottom half of the back. The finish is definitely cracked/split along there, but I don't know how far in the crack has occurred. What's the best way to check that - check the interior of the guitar with a mirror?


----------



## Alain Moisan (Jan 16, 2010)

If the crack is wide enough, slide the croner of a piece paper in it. It will tell you how deep is the crack.


----------



## Mike MacLeod (Nov 27, 2006)

If you press gently on one side of the "crack' you may be able to feel movement. This will tell you a lot. the key word is gently.

A crack repair is not a terrible thing. Nor is it hideously expensive. However, it is high relative to the price of a less expensive guitar vs. a high-end guitar. Almost all of my guitars have repaired cracks. 'Course most are over 50 years old and have been through many owners.


----------



## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

dhutchings said:


> One of my acoustics is sick! Despite the fact that it lives in its TRIC case, taken out only to be played and/or to re-water the sponge in the humidifier, it's developed a 2-inch long crack on the back. It's splitting along the seam between the two back pieces.
> 
> I only purchased the guitar this past summer, so I've queried Simon & Patrick as to potential warranty concerns. If that doesn't pan out, can anyone recommend a good luthier in the Mississauga or Kitchener/Waterloo areas who would be able to repair a seam crack and restore the finish in that area?
> 
> Help!


If you don't get any warranty satisfaction you can contact Mike McConville in Stratford. He's been doing lutherie for over 40 years.

http://mcconvilleguitars.blogspot.com/


----------



## simescan (May 15, 2007)

dhutchings said:


> Yeah, I was worried that something like this would not be covered by warranty but I figured it was best to try. I'll see what they say but in the meantime I'll keep researching luthiers in the area.


Please let us know if Godin comes good on the warranty...


----------



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

Okay, on close inspection tonight it looks like the split and buckling is on the finish only, around the seam. That makes me feel a bit better. 

One of the guys at work highly recommended Folkway Music in Guelph for acoustic repairs, so I'll probably run it there after work tomorrow and see what they say.


----------



## simescan (May 15, 2007)

Good news man!


----------



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

Small update: Godin just got back to me. They want me to take the guitar in to a Long & McQuade (their distributor of choice) to have it inspected. The techs will then decide if it's warranty-able or not.

Does anyone have any experience with L&M as a repair shop? I buy stuff there from time to time (including this guitar, incidentally) but I've never yet used them as a luthier. If the damage isn't covered under warranty am I safe leaving the guitar with L&M to fix at cost or am I better to seek out one of the alternates that have been presented in this thread?


----------



## House Guitars (Jan 4, 2010)

I'll second the recommendation of Folkway music. They are known for their great repair work to vintage instrument and can certainly take care of a crack. 

As for L&M I'd certainly take it in and see what they say. I think different stores have different guys that do their repair work. I'd assume (or hope) that they have a pro luthier on staff or available to do their repairs.

Josh


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

House Guitars said:


> I'll second the recommendation of Folkway music. They are known for their great repair work to vintage instrument and can certainly take care of a crack.
> 
> As for L&M I'd certainly take it in and see what they say. I think different stores have different guys that do their repair work. I'd assume (or hope) that they have a pro luthier on staff or available to do their repairs.
> 
> Josh


Yeah, I agree. Go see L&M to get their opinion re: warranty. With L&M's in-house techs, it's really hit and miss. Some guys are really good, others are just apprenticing and don't really know what they're doing. Unfortunately, L&M seems to have a price-point basis for who get which tech. Every time I took in an inexpensive guitar, I would end up having the work done by some 20 year old kid, while the older more experienced techs handle the nicer gear (and I don't blame them for that, but it kind of sucks too).

I would at least speak with the tech who would potentially be working on your guitar at L&M to get a feel for him. If he strikes you as someone who knows what they're doing, then go for it. If he seems pretty useless, then go to Folkway. Folkway will probably run you more $ but will likely do better work, but we're talking about a relatively inexpensive guitar that just needs to be serviceable, so I don't know how much you're willing to put in and whether top-notch work is preferable to something that just gets the job done.


----------



## simescan (May 15, 2007)

I still think they should come good and replace it!...just my opinion.


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

simescan said:


> I still think they should come good and replace it!...just my opinion.


If it was a crack through the wood that caused structural damage and wasn't the result of a fall, then yeah, I'd agree. But a finish crack? Nah. Acoustics expand and contract with temperature and humidity so much that if ever builder warranted their guitars againt finish cracks, they'd spend more time repairing guitars than making new ones. I'm not saying the crack is the OP's fault, these things just happen. It's unfortunate, but it's not a sign of shoddy workmanship or anything preventable by the mfg.


----------



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

This being my first all solid wood guitar, what can I do to ensure that this sort of thing doesn't continue to happen regularly? I thought I was keeping it hydrated enough. Sometimes when I go to re-wet the sponge the thing's still got moisture. 

I guess my next step (after getting this repaired) is to pick up some sort of a case hygrometer. That way I'll be better able to judge the relative humidity level in the case. I'm guessing that since my other acoustic's got laminate back and sides that that's why this hasn't been an issue before?


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

dhutchings said:


> This being my first all solid wood guitar, what can I do to ensure that this sort of thing doesn't continue to happen regularly? I thought I was keeping it hydrated enough. Sometimes when I go to re-wet the sponge the thing's still got moisture.
> 
> I guess my next step (after getting this repaired) is to pick up some sort of a case hygrometer. That way I'll be better able to judge the relative humidity level in the case. I'm guessing that since my other acoustic's got laminate back and sides that that's why this hasn't been an issue before?


Do you ever take it anywhere with you? Guitars, especially acoustics, don't like going from really cold environments to really warm ones. If your guitar was out in your car for a while and you brought it in and opened up the case right away, that could cause finish cracks. Is it possible you (or someone else, a kid, pet, etc) banged it somewhere? Do you play standing up with a strap? If so, are you wearing a belt? Lots of things can hurt guitars and it's almost impossible to account for everything.


----------



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

No, that's the thing that gets me. I bought it last August I think it was. It came to my house. It gets played, but primarily lives in its case (one of the TRIC cases from Godin that's supposed to be the be all-end-all for acoustic guitar protection). Once the weather got colder and the heat started coming on, I started to keep the soundhole humidifier wet. Until today, it hasn't left my house.

It's definitely not buckle rash - this is a split in the finish. Buckle'd have to be two inches to the right of my right hip out in thin air to reach this part  

I don't know how to describe it. You know when you snap a thin layer of hard plastic and the edges along the split kind ofpull up? That's what this crack looks like. But the guitar lives in the case, I thought it was well hydrated. Non-smoking home, no kids, no pets. Case rests on its side so that it can't even get knocked over.


----------



## Alain Moisan (Jan 16, 2010)

I don't think there ius anything else you should have done to prevent this. You're taking care of your guitar real well, don't worry about that.



dhutchings said:


> The split is occurring along where that 3rd piece of wood is joined to the bottom half of the back.


This makes me believe that what you are experiencing is not a crack as much as a bad glue seam. The two pieces of wood either got unglued or were never properly glued. Since the slightest humidity change (just taking out the guitar to play for a few hours, for example) is bound to make the wood move, the crack in the finish was unavoidable. 

Anyway, let's see what the guitar tech will tell you!

Good luck!


----------



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

Alain Moisan said:


> I don't think there ius anything else you should have done to prevent this. You're taking care of your guitar real well, don't worry about that.
> 
> This makes me believe that what you are experiencing is not a crack as much as a bad glue seam. The two pieces of wood either got unglued or were never properly glued. Since the slightest humidity change (just taking out the guitar to play for a few hours, for example) is bound to make the wood move, the crack in the finish was unavoidable.


The tech at L&M agrees with you. Two guys examined the guitar and in their opinion, the guitar was not under-humidified and that the crack is the result of a manufacturing defect.

They need to talk to Godin to determine the best course of action, but they said in their opinion that the damage will either be fixed under warranty or they will offer me a replacement guitar.


----------



## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

dhutchings said:


> The tech at L&M agrees with you. Two guys examined the guitar and in their opinion, the guitar was not under-humidified and that the crack is the result of a manufacturing defect.
> 
> They need to talk to Godin to determine the best course of action, but they said in their opinion that the damage will either be fixed under warranty or they will offer me a replacement guitar.


Awesome, that's great to hear! It's not often that you hear good stories about L&M experiences, most of the time it's people bashing the store, but I've always had good buying experiences there and I like them for setups of cheap to mid-range guitars. Good to know Godin and L&M are gonna make it right for you!


----------



## Alain Moisan (Jan 16, 2010)

dhutchings said:


> The tech at L&M agrees with you. Two guys examined the guitar and in their opinion, the guitar was not under-humidified and that the crack is the result of a manufacturing defect.
> 
> They need to talk to Godin to determine the best course of action, but they said in their opinion that the damage will either be fixed under warranty or they will offer me a replacement guitar.


Good for you!

Let us know what they decide to do.


----------



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

I've got a minor update: I called Long & McQuade because I hadn't heard anything from them after dropping my guitar off on Feb 5th. They said that it's been sent back to Godin for inspection and repair, so that sounds like everything'll be covered under warranty.

Secondary update - just after I posted this I received a voicemail from L&M. It has been sent back to Godin but it may take upwards of a couple of months for the guitar to be repaired and returned. :/ 

At least I have another acoustic I can use in the meantime.


----------



## Brennan (Apr 9, 2008)

Ask them if they can offer you a loaner in the meantime, they will quite often comp a rental in cases like this.


----------



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

I talked to them about that, and they said that they wanted to hear back from Godin first, as they had an identical model in stock - if Godin would OK it, they'd just do an immediate replace rather than a long-term rental. 

I just got the call yesterday, Godin OK'ed the replacement, so I'm going to head there tomorrow night and pick up my new guitar!


----------



## Alain Moisan (Jan 16, 2010)

Good for you!


----------



## Brennan (Apr 9, 2008)

Glad it worked out for you!


----------



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

Well, sort of. What they sent me was a guitar. It just wasn't the one that I'd originally purchased. It's a solid spruce top, yes. Solid Mahogany back and sides, yes. Mahogany nec....no, a Maple neck that's tinted a weird orange. And doesn't have the same feel in my hands as the original's Mahogany neck did.

It may be a minor thing, but the feel of the original guitar's neck was one of the reasons that I bought the guitar in the first place. And aesthetically speaking, the look of the mahogany back and sides with a matched-colour Mahogany neck looked very sharp.

I've contacted Godin about this. If nothing can be done, then does anyone want to buy an unused, still has the plastic cover on the pickguard, S&P Spruce/Mahogany Dread? Case included!


----------



## Alain Moisan (Jan 16, 2010)

Hmmm... That's strange. Does it have the same model number?


----------



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

Yep, same model number. Should be the same specs, I'd have figured. At this point I'm waiting to see what Godin says when they get back to me. I'm kind of disappointed at this.


----------



## Alain Moisan (Jan 16, 2010)

dhutchings said:


> ... I'm kind of disappointed at this.


I can understand... It all seemed to go flawlessly up to this point.


----------



## Tarbender (Apr 7, 2006)

That's real heartbreaking Darren. I feel for you... getting something you really like replaced with what someone else thinks you'll like isn't the way it should be.


----------



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

Hey Tom, yeah it feels again like I'm working at that place we used to work at.

Anyway, Godin agrees with me that the guitar should have had a Mahogany neck and are requesting I return it to L&M for another return. I'll print the email to take with me tomorrow as proof so that L&M don't think I'm some sort of crank. I mean, honestly, it's not their fault that the manufacturer sent back a mis-configured guitar.

I hate to bump a thread over crap like this, but I figure it's a good document of customer service. If things turn out well, then it'll justify my faith in a Canadian guitar manufacturer.

If not...I might save up the dough and ask M. Moisan to construct for me the Dread of my dreams. That will also justify my faith in a Canadian guitar manufacturer


----------



## Alain Moisan (Jan 16, 2010)

:food-smiley-004:


----------



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

Final update. I took the guitar back to L&M, as per Godin's instructions. I waited a couple of weeks, and then L&M called back to indicate that Godin would not replace the guitar a second time and what they offered me was what their only replacement was going to be. That being said, Godin was releasing a new line of S&P's that were basically the same guitar as the L&M Limited Edition. L&M had 4 of them coming in, and offered me full store credit for the defective guitar.

They came in yesterday, I went down today at lunch to check the guitar out, and walked out with it for the princely sum of $46.

It's a solid wood spruce/mahogany, with a slotted bridge to reduce the angle on the strings at the bridge pins and what looks to be the same solid rosette as exists on the Showcase models. I can't find any info on S&P's webpage about them, but there is this:

Simon and Patrick Woodland Pro SG A3T > Guitars : Acoustic | Gbase.com

They didn't have any models with the electronics in, and not wanting to wait more weeks I took the guitar that they had in stock. Besides, I really liked how it played and felt. It looks like S&P are introducing this new addition to the Woodland line to offer a low cost solid wood guitar across the board.


----------



## Alain Moisan (Jan 16, 2010)

I guess the main thing is that you find this to be a good ending to the story.

...

Do you?


----------



## dhutchings (Feb 16, 2007)

Ultimately? Yes. L&M did pretty well to try to come to a resolution on this. I'm happy with how it turned out.


----------



## Alain Moisan (Jan 16, 2010)

Good for you then!


----------

