# Underrated cheap pedals.



## chuck_zc (Dec 6, 2009)

Had this on my board for the past couple of days. If ya ever find one in the clearance bin at L&M, grab it and give it a try. Works amazingly well with singles and humbuckers. The overdrive is a nice added bonus. The compression is actually a mix knob. Works really well.
Any cheap stuff that goes under the radar unnoticed??


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2019)

Arion SCH-1 Stereo Chorus. I bought one used for $20. I did find the buffer sucked a bit of tone. MHammer built me a nice true bypass blend knob with an active volume. That is a great way to handle pedal suck.


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## CDWaterloo (Jul 18, 2008)

Boss Metal Zone - cheap in the used market.


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## CathodeRay (Jan 12, 2018)

Joyo's Sweet Baby OD w/ the 'Focus' knob.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

CDWaterloo said:


> Boss Metal Zone - cheap in the used market.


Last one I had got traded for a flat of beer. No regrets.

The Visual Sounds Garagetone lineup are sweet budget rigs. I currently have the Drivetrain OD and the Axle Grease Delay.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

CathodeRay said:


> Joyo's Sweet Baby OD w/ the 'Focus' knob.


I had the Joyo California pedal. It was a very good pedal. Was dubbed an "amp emulation" but I found it seemed more of an EQ and overdrive to distortion pedal. At least that's how I used it. Couldn't go wrong for $39


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

chuck_zc said:


> Had this on my board for the past couple of days. If ya ever find one in the clearance bin at L&M, grab it and give it a try. Works amazingly well with singles and humbuckers. The overdrive is a nice added bonus. The compression is actually a mix knob. Works really well.
> Any cheap stuff that goes under the radar unnoticed??


Let us know how that is holding up a year from now. To me part of being underrated is build quality and in my experience the super-mini, MIC with surface mount parts and those no-knob pots just don't hold up. Joyo and Donner are the worst for this - they all sound fine, sometimes even great, but I wouldn't take them on the road without a couple spares (and for that price, get a better built pedal - they are usually clones of something, sometimes with a mod). This is the one disagreement I have with the JHS guy.



CDWaterloo said:


> Boss Metal Zone - cheap in the used market.


Yes cheap, but hardly underrated (it is meme-legendary). The price isn't due to people not wanting them, but their ubiquity - there's hundreds of them on ebay at any given moment.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Let us know how that is holding up a year from now. To me part of being underrated is build quality and in my experience the super-mini, MIC with surface mount parts and those no-knob pots just don't hold up. Joyo and Donner are the worst for this - they all sound fine, sometimes even great, but I wouldn't take them on the road without a couple spares (and for that price, get a better built pedal - they are usually clones of something, sometimes with a mod). This is the one disagreement I have with the JHS guy.


I'll give both Josh Smith (JHS) and Brian Wampler credit for not simply using their YT channel to plug their own products.
As for _those _pots, my experience is that the the smaller the diameter, the crappier the wiper (the moving part that moves against the resistive strip inside the pot). The old large ones we used to see in '70s MXR, EHX, and large Boss pedals were 24mm across, and had lovely smooth wipers that made good contact while scraping less. The little black plastic shaft ones we see in mini pedals are 9mm across, while the small-ish split-shaft ones we see on many standard-size pedals (and in many guitars) are 16mm. There are two general types of 9mm pots. Both are mounted to the PC board, but one is threaded and has a retaining nut to secure it to the chassis, while the other relies on the precision of the machining of the chassis, and mounting of the board to minimize the amount of "wiggle room" it has. The one on the right can take normal set-screw knobs, and the one on the left now has a selection of knobs available that can slide over them. Both, happily, are affixed to the PC board not only by the three solder tabs for the resistive strip, but by two additional side tabs (you can see one of them in the pics). Both have the same wiper, but the one held in place by a retaining nut is likely subject to less lateral stress by movement of the shaft, and will probably enjoy a slightly longer lifespan as a result. Smarter manufacturers know to use the kind on the right for controls the user is likely to use/adjust more frequently, as well as using at least one such pot to secure the board to the chassis, and use the kind on the left for controls the user is less likely to futz around with frequently, in an effort to provide less stress for pots that are more easily stressed. Not having used the push-on knobs yet, I can't speak to whether they might play any role in reducing lateral movement of the shaft.

I'm sure plenty here have seen pedals with clear illuminated versions of the 9mm pots. As it was explained to me, the current line of Fender pedals uses such pots, and had knobs made for them with small clear inserts, so that the light shining up through the bottom makes the indicator insert glow, but not the whole knob. Nice trick. Many of the recent Tech 21 Fly Rig strips use illuminated 9mm pots to show that a given effect module is active or bypassed, although they do not light up an indicator strip like Fender.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Player99 said:


> Arion SCH-1 Stereo Chorus. I bought one used for $20. I did find the buffer sucked a bit of tone. MHammer built me a nice true bypass blend knob with an active volume. That is a great way to handle pedal suck.


SCH-1 choruses are considered very desirable pedals, and are preferred by a number of "name" players (e.g., Scott Henderson, Michael Landau). I can't speak to whether they are a more musical-sounding chorus than the CE-2, but their design doesn't seem to be a whole lot different than the Boss CE-3. That's not a diss; just a comment on needing to hear both at once to know if there are audible differences.

Less costly pedals are not necessarily a reflection of poorer quality, poorer design, or fewer components. As I've noted before, large companies with extensive product lines can afford to keep production costs down, and simply aim for a given markup and profit margin for each product, based on market demand. Boutique builders and small manufacturers with limited product lines, and limited production scale, work backwards from their_ total _overhead costs (rent, health insurance, car payments, salaries, food, etc.), figure out how many units they can produce/move in a month, and calculate what they need to charge to meet all those overhead costs. The build quality, parts, and design on a $40 Chinese-made mini-pedal may be not a bit different than the build quality, design, and parts complement of something put together in the U.S., Canada or the UK, but whoever is cranking out all those mini pedals that are marketed under multiple names (Caline, Donner, Mooer, et al) is most assuredly not thinking "If I can only make 500 of these in a month, how much do I need to charge?".


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

mhammer said:


> I'll give both Josh Smith (JHS) and Brian Wampler credit for not simply using their YT channel to plug their own products.
> As for _those _pots, my experience is that the the smaller the diameter, the crappier the wiper (the moving part that moves against the resistive strip inside the pot). The old large ones we used to see in '70s MXR, EHX, and large Boss pedals were 24mm across, and had lovely smooth wipers that made good contact while scraping less. The little black plastic shaft ones we see in mini pedals are 9mm across, while the small-ish split-shaft ones we see on many standard-size pedals (and in many guitars) are 16mm. There are two general types of 9mm pots. Both are mounted to the PC board, but one is threaded and has a retaining nut to secure it to the chassis, while the other relies on the precision of the machining of the chassis, and mounting of the board to minimize the amount of "wiggle room" it has. The one on the right can take normal set-screw knobs, and the one on the left now has a selection of knobs available that can slide over them. Both, happily, are affixed to the PC board not only by the three solder tabs for the resistive strip, but by two additional side tabs (you can see one of them in the pics). Both have the same wiper, but the one held in place by a retaining nut is likely subject to less lateral stress by movement of the shaft, and will probably enjoy a slightly longer lifespan as a result. Smarter manufacturers know to use the kind on the right for controls the user is likely to use/adjust more frequently, as well as using at least one such pot to secure the board to the chassis, and use the kind on the left for controls the user is less likely to futz around with frequently, in an effort to provide less stress for pots that are more easily stressed. Not having used the push-on knobs yet, I can't speak to whether they might play any role in reducing lateral movement of the shaft.
> 
> I'm sure plenty here have seen pedals with clear illuminated versions of the 9mm pots. As it was explained to me, the current line of Fender pedals uses such pots, and had knobs made for them with small clear inserts, so that the light shining up through the bottom makes the indicator insert glow, but not the whole knob. Nice trick. Many of the recent Tech 21 Fly Rig strips use illuminated 9mm pots to show that a given effect module is active or bypassed, although they do not light up an indicator strip like Fender.


It’s Josh Heath Scott (JHS), probably the only time I’ll ever have a chance to correct you on something pedal related! Haha


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Ha! You are correct. Thanks. I went to the JHS site, because I wasn't sure if it actually _was_ Smith, but couldn't find any clues. So, despite the nagging feeling that maybe it wasn't Smith, I just went with Smith. But I'm not alone, Dan and Mick at That Pedal Show have had both Josh Scott and guitarist Josh Smith on the show, and have mixed up the names on several occasions. So I'm in decent company.

I'm confident you'll have plenty of future chances to correct me...on a wide variety of matters. My wife seems to have no difficulties in that area.


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2019)

Player99 said:


> Arion SCH-1 Stereo Chorus. I bought one used for $20. I did find the buffer sucked a bit of tone. MHammer built me a nice true bypass blend knob with an active volume. That is a great way to handle pedal suck.


Here is our own Robert from 2006 demoing the SCH-1


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I got two Dano pedals used for $10 each
The Fab Chorus wasn't a whole lot more new (I usually saw it for about $25-40--making a new one also a candidate for this thread.)
The Fish N Chips EQ was more when new.

Both do what I ask of them.
The Fab Chorus is a nice subtle chorus--and can go beyond subtle--but I wanted a subtle one--especially for my bass.
It works great with the fretless bass.

the EQ works for clarity or to muddy things up--whichever I want at the time. (Mostly clarity though)


Hard to beat $20 for two pedals that do what you ask of them.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

mhammer said:


> I'll give both Josh Smith (JHS) and Brian Wampler credit for not simply using their YT channel to plug their own products.
> As for _those _pots, my experience is that the the smaller the diameter, the crappier the wiper (the moving part that moves against the resistive strip inside the pot). The old large ones we used to see in '70s MXR, EHX, and large Boss pedals were 24mm across, and had lovely smooth wipers that made good contact while scraping less. The little black plastic shaft ones we see in mini pedals are 9mm across, while the small-ish split-shaft ones we see on many standard-size pedals (and in many guitars) are 16mm. There are two general types of 9mm pots. Both are mounted to the PC board, but one is threaded and has a retaining nut to secure it to the chassis, while the other relies on the precision of the machining of the chassis, and mounting of the board to minimize the amount of "wiggle room" it has. The one on the right can take normal set-screw knobs, and the one on the left now has a selection of knobs available that can slide over them. Both, happily, are affixed to the PC board not only by the three solder tabs for the resistive strip, but by two additional side tabs (you can see one of them in the pics). Both have the same wiper, but the one held in place by a retaining nut is likely subject to less lateral stress by movement of the shaft, and will probably enjoy a slightly longer lifespan as a result. Smarter manufacturers know to use the kind on the right for controls the user is likely to use/adjust more frequently, as well as using at least one such pot to secure the board to the chassis, and use the kind on the left for controls the user is less likely to futz around with frequently, in an effort to provide less stress for pots that are more easily stressed. Not having used the push-on knobs yet, I can't speak to whether they might play any role in reducing lateral movement of the shaft.
> 
> I'm sure plenty here have seen pedals with clear illuminated versions of the 9mm pots. As it was explained to me, the current line of Fender pedals uses such pots, and had knobs made for them with small clear inserts, so that the light shining up through the bottom makes the indicator insert glow, but not the whole knob. Nice trick. Many of the recent Tech 21 Fly Rig strips use illuminated 9mm pots to show that a given effect module is active or bypassed, although they do not light up an indicator strip like Fender.


Yeah, I just built a fuzz factory with all 9mm pots ( solid shaft Alphas) and i think I will stay away in the future. At least they have the mounting nut.

Boss Digital delays all use 9mm pcb mount too ( the mode pot is irreplaceable due to weirdo custom part - detented at 6-11 points forget now exactly; non detented works as a replacement tho and thats not hard to find).

Most guitars use 24mm pots with notable exceptions of 70s-90s imports ( asian and european) and more modern stuff with high end conductive plastic pots ( e .g. Bourns) which feel awesome.

Getting back to JHS and not just promoting their products on YT... reeeeeeeeeally? lets be clear, he IS promoting his products and brand in all those vids even if not talking about a specific pedal. Im not saying he's a bad dude, or doing something wrong; Im talking basic media literacy here. Also, my main bone with his vid on outsourced to asia surface mount products ( like some of his own) being just as good as through hole is exactly that it was using his platform as a respected pedal guru to promote his products indirectly as not being worse now that he does that on some of them. Sure it does sound the same ( assuming equivalent parts avail in that format), but they are not as reliable as he claimed AND the kicker is that they are much more of a bugger to fix which was completly ignored. Nevermind the issues of outsourcing to less developed nations and other politics around all that.

Not trying to vilify him; in the grand scheme of things he seems like a decent dude, but I will challenge cannonisation always.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I don't know much about current Dano pedals but I have the first versions of the Cool Cat Transparent Overdrive, Fuzz, Vibe, and Trem. They are all great and I bought then as new old stock for next to nothing. I know the Transparent Overdrive gets it praises, but I would consider the other pedals in the line under-rated. 

I have an Eno Myomorpha Rat clone I bought of Amazon for about $40 that I love as well. It's basically a switchable Rat/Turbo Rat but also has a bit of it's own tone. There are similar models from other sellers on there that are likely the same pedal with different branding. I've been thrilled with it.

Another one is the EHX LP-1. It's definitely not a 'clean' boost. So you might love it it hate it based on what you expect out of a boost. I love the effect it has though. If you play dirtier music, it just sounds evil when you kick it in. I consider it under-rated only because some people don't like how it colours the tone, so they rate it poorly. But for some people, they will love that.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Behringer. I doubt these would stand up to gigging often but for home use sounds good to me.

Have heard good things about the Digitech Bad Monkey being a decent TS9 clone.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Yeah, I just built a fuzz factory with all 9mm pots ( solid shaft Alphas) and i think I will stay away in the future. At least they have the mounting nut.
> 
> Boss Digital delays all use 9mm pcb mount too ( the mode pot is irreplaceable due to weirdo custom part - detented at 6-11 points forget now exactly; non detented works as a replacement tho and thats not hard to find).
> 
> ...


Fair comments, all. Certainly Josh benefits from drawing attention to himself as a "good guy". My point is that he doesn't need to.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

torndownunit said:


> I don't know much about current Dano pedals but I have the first versions of the Cool Cat Transparent Overdrive, Fuzz, Vibe, and Trem. They are all great and I bought then as new old stock for next to nothing. I know the Transparent Overdrive gets it praises, but I would consider the other pedals in the line under-rated.


I had the OD, drive, vibe, tremolo and Distortion from the Cool Cat line. I still have the ODv2 and Distortion. Wish I’d kept the tremolo and vibe. I’m trying to get the Fuzz...


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The original Danelectro "brand" was stuff for budget-conscious people. The poplar-and-masonite guitars with the lipstick pickups were dirt cheap for guitars, but seem to have made many happy. The guy who resurrected Dano was the original owner of Foxx.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Merlin said:


> I had the OD, drive, vibe, tremolo and Distortion from the Cool Cat line. I still have the ODv2 and Distortion. Wish I’d kept the tremolo and vibe. I’m trying to get the Fuzz...


It's a neat and kind of unique fuzz. It actually sounds great on my bass too. I have a couple of bass specific fuzz pedals, and I prefer it over them. I am not sure what circuit they used.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

torndownunit said:


> I don't know much about current Dano pedals but I have the first versions of the Cool Cat Transparent Overdrive, Fuzz, Vibe, and Trem. They are all great and I bought then as new old stock for next to nothing. I know the Transparent Overdrive gets it praises, but I would consider the other pedals in the line under-rated.


I think the Cool Cat line was above the FAB line (Which I believe was the low end) and the various food/diner type named one (Such as my Fish & Chips EQ)
I've tired others & like them

the newer ones do intrigue me.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

zontar said:


> I think the Cool Cat line was above the FAB line (Which I believe was the low end) and the various food/diner type named one (Such as my Fish & Chips EQ)
> I've tired others & like them
> 
> the newer ones do intrigue me.


I've owned the Fab pedals too. While the cool cats aren't crazy durable, they are built much stronger than the Fab ones. They also basically copied circuits from other pedals with the Cool Cat. So those are the big differences.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm curious. What aspects undermine their perceived durability? Is it the controls, the bypass switch, or what? In other words, if I was intent on putting out a line of inexpensive pedals (something I am NOT planning to do), what things would I need to pay attention to to solicit a great-value-for-the-money vote from guitarists?


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

mhammer said:


> I'm curious. What aspects undermine their perceived durability? Is it the controls, the bypass switch, or what? In other words, if I was intent on putting out a line of inexpensive pedals (something I am NOT planning to do), what things would I need to pay attention to to solicit a great-value-for-the-money vote from guitarists?


It's actually a just a housing issue I am referring too. The older pedals were basically plastic and were kind of flimsy. Playing a gig like I usually play (pretty energetic), I would have actually been worried about stomping on them too hard. The cool cats are more solid, and have a much more solid switch. I have gigged mine quite a bit with no issues. As far as the internals, I can't tell you much.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Though I can understand the apprehension some may have at the word "plastic",and the lightness of the boxes, the little plastic enclosures are quite solid, maybe moreso than some folded metal types that weigh more. And, truth be told, so many players use switching systems on their pedalboards these days that enclosure shape and where the jacks (power and signal) are located places a more important role to them than the robustness of the enclosure.

But I appreciate your reply.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Though I can understand the apprehension some may have at the word "plastic",and the lightness of the boxes, the little plastic enclosures are quite solid, maybe moreso than some folded metal types that weigh more. And, truth be told, so many players use switching systems on their pedalboards these days that enclosure shape and where the jacks (power and signal) are located places a more important role to them than the robustness of the enclosure.
> 
> But I appreciate your reply.


Have you used their older pedals (the 90's-00's ones)? This was not a case of perceived quality and plastics, they were just not great quality. Look at this photo, the tiny plastic knobs on these would snap off with no effort at all. One wrong step on the pedal, and you could trash them. And the button just wasn't super reliable, and didn't provide enough "feel" when stepping on it. They were almost like a pedal that wasn't made to be stepped on. The Cool Cat series are completely different.












The FAB pedal did fit more with what you were saying. While they weren't made out of fantastic materials, they actually were way more durable. They still had issues with the knobs for sure though.











The Cool Cat really just took those a step further, but for the same price. A better knob design (covered more by the housing), better housing, better switch, but pretty much the same price. It sort of shows a neat evolution of a cheap pedal brand.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I am still of the mind that manufacturers using electronic switching should provide a mini phone jack that parallels the two contacts of the bypass switch, such that the user can run a cable to whatever sort of stompswitch (and location) works best for them.

But your description of the evolution of Dano boxes suggests they have listened to customer feedback.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

torndownunit said:


> Have you used their older pedals (the 90's-00's ones)? This was not a case of perceived quality and plastics, they were just not great quality. Look at this photo, the tiny plastic knobs on these would snap off with no effort at all. One wrong step on the pedal, and you could trash them. And the button just wasn't super reliable, and didn't provide enough "feel" when stepping on it. They were almost like a pedal that wasn't made to be stepped on. The Cool Cat series are completely different.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My Fish N Chips EQ looks similar to the first pedal--except it doesn't have the dials, but faders/sliders (& a different colour)
But same general look & format.
My FAB chorus looks like the second pedal, expect for colour & the words on it.
Same thing otherwise.
The Cool Cat pedals I saw when they came out were all more expensive than the Diner & FAB pedals.
And they definitely go for more used around here (At least the ones I've seen)
But since I mostly play for fun, at home, the durability isn't a big deal.
Even if I go to someone's house to jam--they withstand that.


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## Cardamonfrost (Dec 12, 2018)

The way pedal prices are going, the TS9 is just about a budget pedal. And its awesome. lol.

C


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

MXR Prime Distortion, a one-trick pony but it's a pretty good trick. 
No longer offered by MXR but it was only $55 brand new so it should be v


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## chuck_zc (Dec 6, 2009)

BMW-KTM said:


> BOSS SD-1
> Very versatile overdrive, way better than a Screamer and for much less money.
> Been around since forever and was used on so many classic rock songs from the 70s that you wouldn't be able to count them all.
> Still under $70 to this day, brand new and half that (or less) used.
> ...


Just put mine back on my board tonight..


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

chuck_zc said:


> Just put mine back on my board tonight..


I hear you.
I do it all the time.
I will take the SD-1 off to try something else but after a while I miss it and remember that nothing else does what it can do and back on it goes.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Sticking with the Boss line, I happen to firmly believe one of the most under rated pedals is the DS-1. Considering where it's placed, with which pedals you may choose to use it with, and certain settings on the pedal itself, it can kick some pretty serious ass. I've gotten some really cool fuzz tones with it with other pedals/settings on my LP pickup and Volume/tone selections. I have an '86 MIJ one so I cannot speak for the newer ones.


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2019)

Dorian2 said:


> Sticking with the Boss line, I happen to firmly believe one of the most under rated pedals is the DS-1. Considering where it's placed, with which pedals you may choose to use it with, and certain settings on the pedal itself, it can kick some pretty serious ass. I've gotten some really cool fuzz tones with it with other pedals/settings on my LP pickup and Volume/tone selections. I* have an '86 MIJ one so I cannot speak for the newer ones.*


Boss snobbery.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Ibanez DE7


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Player99 said:


> Boss snobbery.


?


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2019)

Dorian2 said:


> ?


It's a joke. Just ignore it.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Player99 said:


> It's a joke. Just ignore it.


Sawdite man. Just don't know your humor is all. Never know on the interwebs these days.


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## Eyeban Ezz (Jan 19, 2018)

R2D2


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## chuck_zc (Dec 6, 2009)

butterknucket said:


> Ibanez DE7


Thanks to Josh Scott(JHS) the price of these is probably gonna go through the roof lol.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

chuck_zc said:


> Thanks to Josh Scott(JHS) the price of these is probably gonna go through the roof lol.


I think I bought mine new for under $100 when no one wanted them.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I've been on a quest for an over drive pedal to mate with my new amps blackface channel and have actually been having a hard time finding something that works with it. I had my focus on high end boutique pedals or more on the expensive side. Tried the effectrode over drive. Nothing seem to work. 
I decided to give the Boss BD-2W a try. I've never tried this pedal even when I was in to Boss pedals, preferring the SD-1. Now this pedal isn't exactly cheap but a lot cheaper than anything I've been looking at to date.
I've been playing with it at home and got a chance to try it out at a gig last night. I am really surprised by this pedal. Wasn't quite sure I liked it. I bought it last week from Long and Mcquade thinking that I'd likely return it with in 30 days. But now it looks like I'll probably hold on to it. 
I love the way I can set some mild over drive (which is what I want) and I can play lightly and get a fairly clean sound, then dig in and dirty it up pretty good. I have my blackface channel set to slight hair (thanks to iron man attenuator) and the blues driver really pushes that. I like the custom setting as it seems to fatten it up nice. From what I'm told Keeley has a pedal that is basically a BD-2 with a mod making it fatter.
This pedal along with the DM-2w makes it 2 boss pedals back on my board. 
After many years using mostly very expensive boutique pedals I'm back to mostly boss again.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I've been on a quest for an over drive pedal to mate with my new amps blackface channel and have actually been having a hard time finding something that works with it. I had my focus on high end boutique pedals or more on the expensive side. Tried the effectrode over drive. Nothing seem to work.
> I decided to give the Boss BD-2W a try. I've never tried this pedal even when I was in to Boss pedals, preferring the SD-1. Now this pedal isn't exactly cheap but a lot cheaper than anything I've been looking at to date.
> I've been playing with it at home and got a chance to try it out at a gig last night. I am really surprised by this pedal. Wasn't quite sure I liked it. I bought it last week from Long and Mcquade thinking that I'd likely return it with in 30 days. But now it looks like I'll probably hold on to it.
> I love the way I can set some mild over drive (which is what I want) and I can play lightly and get a fairly clean sound, then dig in and dirty it up pretty good. I have my blackface channel set to slight hair (thanks to iron man attenuator) and the blues driver really pushes that. I like the custom setting as it seems to fatten it up nice. From what I'm told Keeley has a pedal that is basically a BD-2 with a mod making it fatter.
> ...


Try the Xotic AC Booster.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

chuck_zc said:


> Thanks to Josh Scott(JHS) the price of these is probably gonna go through the roof lol.


It really is a great pedal that I can't figure out why it never caught on.


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## AJ6stringsting (Mar 12, 2006)

The Arion Hot Watt 2 , was a great " poor man's" version of the Rockman back in the 1980's. It really had Dynamics on my Marshall JCM 800 or Carvin X-100 B, it was better than my Ibanez Tubes Screamer pedal, plus it has a nice Chorus effect that was not over bearing.

Another great pedal is the Behringer AM 100. A good friend of mine gave me one and to my ears it sounded much better than my Boss AC 2. The AM 100 has a more convincing acoustic guitar sound than the Boss pedal.


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## JonnyD (Sep 20, 2016)

This is one of those underrated cheap pedals. I picked up one of these for $40 or so used at Mcquade. 

My favourite overdrive pedal, well it’s the only one I’ve kept.


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## 12 stringer (Jan 5, 2019)

Behringer ADI21 Acoustic DI/modeller. Barely $40 brand new and does a surprisingly great job at improving your acoustic. Amazing deal, actually.


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## mister.zed (Jun 8, 2011)

Dano Chicken Salad is a real light and LDR driven univibe. Got mine for $20 and it sounds fantastic.


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## Sketchy Jeff (Jan 12, 2019)

I wasn't a huge fan of my mojomojo until i started using it as an underdrive before a crunchy tube amp - switch it off to boost
j


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## Boppy (Jan 19, 2011)

I have several cheap pedals. Among the best (for me anyway) are the Behringer VD400 Analog Delay, the Tomsline G-Fuzz, and the Danelectro Tuna Melt Tremolo from the Food-Series. As noted earlier, the foodies are very fragile, but each one of them came with a handy little snap-on plastic guard to protect the knobs and switches.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

mhammer said:


> SCH-1 choruses are considered very desirable pedals, and are preferred by a number of "name" players (e.g., Scott Henderson, Michael Landau). I can't speak to whether they are a more musical-sounding chorus than the CE-2, but their design doesn't seem to be a whole lot different than the Boss CE-3. That's not a diss; just a comment on needing to hear both at once to know if there are audible differences.
> 
> Less costly pedals are not necessarily a reflection of poorer quality, poorer design, or fewer components. As I've noted before, large companies with extensive product lines can afford to keep production costs down, and simply aim for a given markup and profit margin for each product, based on market demand. Boutique builders and small manufacturers with limited product lines, and limited production scale, work backwards from their_ total _overhead costs (rent, health insurance, car payments, salaries, food, etc.), figure out how many units they can produce/move in a month, and calculate what they need to charge to meet all those overhead costs. The build quality, parts, and design on a $40 Chinese-made mini-pedal may be not a bit different than the build quality, design, and parts complement of something put together in the U.S., Canada or the UK, but whoever is cranking out all those mini pedals that are marketed under multiple names (Caline, Donner, Mooer, et al) is most assuredly not thinking "If I can only make 500 of these in a month, how much do I need to charge?".



I was looking thru some boxes of old gear the other day and found the compressor in this series, I will have to check it out. I seem to remember it was noisy?


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## chuck_zc (Dec 6, 2009)

Ordered one of these last week. According to all thee reviews online and YouTube videos, this thing is the cats meow for going straight in.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

MarkM said:


> I was looking thru some boxes of old gear the other day and found the compressor in this series, I will have to check it out. I seem to remember it was noisy?


The vast majority of compressors suffer from that attribution. It is generally a byproduct of them simply doing their job right. When the signal level declines, they turn the gain up, so as to mimic a guitar that holds its level steady. But when you stop playing, it cranks the gain on whatever hiss is being fed to its input. The result is that hiss appears to increase in level. In the industry, this is referred to as "breathing" because it sounds sort of like someone inhaling.

So, the pedal _could_ be noisy, internally, but might also seem noisy because it is not being fed a clean input signal.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

mhammer said:


> The vast majority of compressors suffer from that attribution. It is generally a byproduct of them simply doing their job right. When the signal level declines, they turn the gain up, so as to mimic a guitar that holds its level steady. But when you stop playing, it cranks the gain on whatever hiss is being fed to its input. The result is that hiss appears to increase in level. In the industry, this is referred to as "breathing" because it sounds sort of like someone inhaling.
> 
> So, the pedal _could_ be noisy, internally, but might also seem noisy because it is not being fed a clean input signal.


How does the very expensive Origin Effects Cali76 get around this?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I don't know. I have made a compressor using the SSM2166 chip, that was designed to be a mic control-strip. It includes a downward expander for quiet passages and is absolutely dead quiet. So maybe the Cali76 includes something similar.
Certainly, different designs and "gain-control elements" have their own susceptibility to generating noise or amplifying incoming noise, but if one can effectively gate it out, close to the input, then the compressor can do what it does in favorable conditions.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

mhammer said:


> The vast majority of compressors suffer from that attribution. It is generally a byproduct of them simply doing their job right. When the signal level declines, they turn the gain up, so as to mimic a guitar that holds its level steady. But when you stop playing, it cranks the gain on whatever hiss is being fed to its input. The result is that hiss appears to increase in level. In the industry, this is referred to as "breathing" because it sounds sort of like someone inhaling.
> 
> So, the pedal _could_ be noisy, internally, but might also seem noisy because it is not being fed a clean input signal.



Appreciate that!

Where do you suggest I put it in the food chain?

I have split off my modulation pedals thru effects send and run an overdrive and wah as well off input.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

I paid $40 for this. 
No ICs in it at all! In my limited experience I think it's great for what it's worth and what it does.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

MarkM said:


> Appreciate that!
> 
> Where do you suggest I put it in the food chain?
> 
> I have split off my modulation pedals thru effects send and run an overdrive and wah as well off input.


It is NOT obligatory whatsoever, and interesting and musically useful effects can be produced by situating it elsewhere in the chain, but ideally a compressor goes as early in the chain as possible. If there is a noise gate that can be placed just ahead of the compressor, so much the better, from a noise-control perspective; especially if one has single-coil pickups that attract hum.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

Not a fan of noise gates, takes dynamics out in my opinion.

Strats with stacked humbuckers and tube amps.

Trying it ahead of wah and OD.

Thanks mhammer!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

You're welcome. Noise gates tend to get a bad rap, in my view, because people stick them at the end of a hissy hummy signal chain, and end up expecting them to do too much. That results in needing to set the gating threshold too high, which impairs the responsiveness to guitar picking nuance. The trick is to make the job as easy for them as possible, by placing it where the difference between legitimate signal, and simply hiss/hum, is easiest to identify. That's why so many include a send-receive loop. The "noise detection" is accomplished at the input, but only _applied_ to the output in the return/receive jack.

In general, I'd say that noise gates and compressors are some of the poorest-understood pedals out there. Where a fuzz does what it does wherever you put it, optimal functioning of gates and comps demands one think about the _entire_ signal path from guitar output jack to amp input jack. While not _incapable_ of reasoning that way, a great many players have grown up thinking about FX in isolation, rather than how they work with each other.


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## CathodeRay (Jan 12, 2018)

tomee2 said:


> I paid $40 for this.
> No ICs in it at all! In my limited experience I think it's great for what it's worth and what it does.


That Boss OD is indeed a great pedal. I've had my eye out for a cheap used one for a while. If you bagged it for $40, congrats.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

mhammer said:


> You're welcome. Noise gates tend to get a bad rap, in my view, because people stick them at the end of a hissy hummy signal chain, and end up expecting them to do too much. That results in needing to set the gating threshold too high, which impairs the responsiveness to guitar picking nuance. The trick is to make the job as easy for them as possible, by placing it where the difference between legitimate signal, and simply hiss/hum, is easiest to identify. That's why so many include a send-receive loop. The "noise detection" is accomplished at the input, but only _applied_ to the output in the return/receive jack.
> 
> In general, I'd say that noise gates and compressors are some of the poorest-understood pedals out there. Where a fuzz does what it does wherever you put it, optimal functioning of gates and comps demands one think about the _entire_ signal path from guitar output jack to amp input jack. While not _incapable_ of reasoning that way, a great many players have grown up thinking about FX in isolation, rather than how they work with each other.


I agree with the system approach.

I was never much of a noise gate fan. All I tried were the cheaper, simple types - in my high gain days. They were too obvious in the signal path and I learned to live without them. Single coils into an HG amp - no way, Jose! Probably would have been alright with a better unit (separate sense and gating).

Enter a fully integrated solution with the Kemper. Now that's a noise gate. Completely transparent, easy to set up and hard to hear any negative artifacts out of it. Single coils into an HG amp - you betcha! I suspect Axe and Helix and similar, integrated noise gates that work just as well.

But this is probably the wrong thread to be talking about KPAs, Axi and Heli. Carry on.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

The Dano French Toast (probably mentioned already) is a great, albeit cheaply made Foxx Tone Machine copy.

I heard the other day that the guy who resurrected Danelectro is the same guy who actually designed the Foxx Tone Machine so does that make it sort of a reissue?

Anyway, I can't confirm that, but that's what I heard.


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## chuck_zc (Dec 6, 2009)

butterknucket said:


> The Dano French Toast (probably mentioned already) is a great, albeit cheaply made Foxx Tone Machine copy.
> 
> I heard the other day that the guy who resurrected Danelectro is the same guy who actually designed the Foxx Tone Machine so does that make it sort of a reissue?
> 
> Anyway, I can't confirm that, but that's what I heard.


Found this necro-thread from 2009 with a discussion about this https://guitarscanada.com/index.php?threads/canadian-made-foxx-tone-machine-clone.20389/


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

mhammer said:


> You're welcome. Noise gates tend to get a bad rap, in my view, because people stick them at the end of a hissy hummy signal chain, and end up expecting them to do too much. That results in needing to set the gating threshold too high, which impairs the responsiveness to guitar picking nuance. The trick is to make the job as easy for them as possible, by placing it where the difference between legitimate signal, and simply hiss/hum, is easiest to identify. That's why so many include a send-receive loop. The "noise detection" is accomplished at the input, but only _applied_ to the output in the return/receive jack.
> 
> In general, I'd say that noise gates and compressors are some of the poorest-understood pedals out there. Where a fuzz does what it does wherever you put it, optimal functioning of gates and comps demands one think about the _entire_ signal path from guitar output jack to amp input jack. While not _incapable_ of reasoning that way, a great many players have grown up thinking about FX in isolation, rather than how they work with each other.


I got a Rocktron Hush Guitar Silencer and it changed my pedal abilities for the better.

The Hush side takes the hiss out of the signal when playing and the gate is excellent at silence when not playing. Double and triple stacked overdrives and fuzz pedals are no problem.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Think I might get the One Control 2 Loop bypass switcher for about $80.

Bought a Wampler Crossroads - hisses like a snake - it's going back hopefully tomorrow.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I haven't tried any of their pedals, but when I stopped by their booth at NAMM, I was impressed by the range of what might be described as "utility" pedals and devices that One Control had. They seemed to have thought of just about every practical need that a player might have for organizing, interfacing, and using their pedal collection. A tip of the hat to them.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

Donner incredible V. It's supposed to emulate The fender Twin '65 Reverb and the '59 Marshall Super Lead. I have never owned either so can't compare to actual accuracy, but this pedal does do a good job of changing the tone. I like it. It qualifies as cheap, but I do believe Donner is starting to prove themselves in this arena of pedal competition. For it's size, it's a hefty little thing as well. I was very surprised by it's weight. 

Donner Incredible V Mini Preamp Guitar Effect Pedal


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Just thought I'd pitch in again on the Boss DS-1. I recently read a post in another forum that kind of changed the way I've thought about the pedal. I've recently been testing it out after the VS/XO OD and before the Xotic SL Drive. In this position and with the tone - 9, Gain - 8, and volume cranked, it really does just seem to expand the overall tone and sustain to a different level. Keep in mind that this is a 1986 MIJ so I can't say if it applies to the later ones from the early to mid 90's on. I've also tested it prviously fully cranked in the gain with Tone at 0 and have managed to get a really cool Fuzz sound with all drives Gained max. 

Here's the write up I mentioned earlier. It made me think slightly differently about how to use the pedal. Which is wierd because it's the same approach I use for all my pedals. Base tone - Guitar and amp. Pedals - flavour and texture.



> *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm strongly considering getting a few of my Tones recorded and making a thread.


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## John Fisher (Aug 6, 2017)

BYOC Rams Head Fuzz. Some great options, and on single coils iy gets me the 70s Gilmour tone i was looking for, bought it as a joke and was super surprised. It is also pedalboard friendly


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Anything made by Behringer. They are all clones of original pedals


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## chuck_zc (Dec 6, 2009)

This thing finally showed up yesterday. Does a decent Fender tone. Not going on the board but in a gig bag for a backup DI incase my amp goes down


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

knight_yyz said:


> Anything made by Behringer. They are all clones of original pedals


Except every one I've tried is noisier than the original, and some do not track as well.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

Dorian2 said:


> Just thought I'd pitch in again on the Boss DS-1. I recently read a post in another forum that kind of changed the way I've thought about the pedal. I've recently been testing it out after the VS/XO OD and before the Xotic SL Drive. In this position and with the tone - 9, Gain - 8, and volume cranked, it really does just seem to expand the overall tone and sustain to a different level. Keep in mind that this is a 1986 MIJ so I can't say if it applies to the later ones from the early to mid 90's on. I've also tested it prviously fully cranked in the gain with Tone at 0 and have managed to get a really cool Fuzz sound with all drives Gained max.
> 
> Here's the write up I mentioned earlier. It made me think slightly differently about how to use the pedal. Which is wierd because it's the same approach I use for all my pedals. Base tone - Guitar and amp. Pedals - flavour and texture.
> 
> ...


I had a DS-1 for years and played it through a solid state amp. I really liked it but my sound and music shifted to OD-1 and tube amps.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I like the OD-1. I like it better than an SD-1 or TS-9. I've built a few clones of the earliest issue, that used op-amp buffers, rather than transistor ones, and it's a nice meat-and-potatoes overdrive.


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## AJ6stringsting (Mar 12, 2006)

knight_yyz said:


> Anything made by Behringer. They are all clones of original pedals


It's about time Behringer gets it long way over due respect, they've made good amps, effects pedals and rack gear.
I used a Behringer 1124 P Feedback Destroyer's 12 band parametric Eq and it doesn't an amazing job on my guitar rig !!!! .


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## AJ6stringsting (Mar 12, 2006)

chuck_zc said:


> This thing finally showed up yesterday. Does a decent Fender tone. Not going on the board but in a gig bag for a backup DI incase my amp goes down
> View attachment 277030


Amoon, is another good company making good gear at a low price !!!!


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

One thing about these new cheap pedals. Us old guys are used to buying pedals and having them work for ever. Solid as a tank. Some of the new cheapies and even seemingly better pedals are more on the disposable side. When you buy them they may last a long time, or they may crap out in a year or two. TC Electronics stuff is an example of this.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I've had a TC mini Flashback and HOF Reverb on the board for a couple of years now with no real ill effect. But they sure aren't Boss quality as far as ruggedness. I suppose that's partly why the TC are on the lower priced side for a few things. I wonder if it's a hit and miss thing?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

When a product is made to sell at a pricepoint well below what it would cost to repair, and in a manner that would make it difficult to repair (which surface-mount stuff is), one can expect that the manufacturer is not taking steps to assure the longevity of the product.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Let's face it.pedals under 50 bucks are entry level. Newbie wants some effects but can't justify paying 300 for a pedal they may not end up keeping. I did the same thing when I started. Bought a bunch of Joyo pedals decided which effects were for me and bought upgrades. Sold the Joyo stuff for half price. Lost 60 bucks....


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## chuck_zc (Dec 6, 2009)

I defenitly wouldn't put my joyo stuff up against Boss or any higher quality stuff for build quality. It works good enough for bedrooms and basements. Although, I've had EHX switches give out before Chinese stuff


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I've never had any issues with pedals & have had some for a very long time.
Although they mostly get used at home, some of the cheaper ones have gone out of the house with me.

Of course regular gigging can be a different experience.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

chuck_zc said:


> I defenitly wouldn't put my joyo stuff up against Boss or any higher quality stuff for build quality. It works good enough for bedrooms and basements. Although, I've had EHX switches give out before Chinese stuff


I suspect most switches are low cost overseas stuff if it's EHX or Joyo.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

Huh for some reason or other I thought TC Electroics was decent equipment?

Appreciate the heads up.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

MarkM said:


> Huh for some reason or other I thought TC Electroics was decent equipment?
> 
> Appreciate the heads up.


Lots of people have no problem with their regular pedals--but they do have a "Bargain" line which are basically reboxed Behringer pedals.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

zontar said:


> Lots of people have no problem with their regular pedals--but they do have a "Bargain" line which are basically reboxed Behringer pedals.


Nah, all their pedals have cheap board mounted switches that break. Their repair is to sell you a new pedal, after you spend the money to ship the broken one back to them at your cost. Then they give you 20% off the retail price of a new one. At least that was my experience. When I asked them what switch to use, or could I buy a switch they said they wouldn't tell. I think later on they said a switch would be $35 USD plus shipping.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

MarkM said:


> Huh for some reason or other I thought TC Electroics was decent equipment?
> 
> Appreciate the heads up.





zontar said:


> Lots of people have no problem with their regular pedals--but they do have a "Bargain" line which are basically reboxed Behringer pedals.


Here is an OP about TC Electronics on The Gear Page I saw today:

"I have had a TC Alter Ego X4 that hasn't worked correctly since I got it. The pedal itself has worked ok on the surface but the Toneprint software and saving presets never worked right, same for trying to get the expression pedal parameters to work right. It won't load anything from the software and gets real squirrely. The good part is that it was a Xmas gift.

I contacted support (first mistake) last year to get it repaired and they gave me a local subcontractor to send it to, out of warranty with a non-refundable $65 bench fee. I decided against it until last week I said, screw it, I really want to fix this thing so I can use the expression pedal (second mistake). That fee gets applied to the final invoice and I figured all said and done it should be worth it.

I get the invoice today and they want another $140 to repair it, making it $200 to repair it!! $100 in labor, $62 in parts, and $30 to ship?!? What? I can get a whole nother pedal for $150 at least, probably even better.

Damn it, I feel like I have been had. Obviously I'm going to have them return it unfixed but now I'm out $65 + shipping both ways (another $35) and the pedal is still broken. Add me to the list of another who won't be buying TC products ever again."

I Should Have Known Better. TC Electronics Repair Bill is STUPID.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Another post from that thread:

"That's kind of how the scam works. They charge you a non-refundable $65 bench fee upfront without you knowing what the final cost will be. I knew this going in but never imagined it would be another $140 on top of the $65. That's just madness to me. I assume it's all legal though, because they make it very clear that you can't get your bench fee back for any reason, so I'm on the hook for that much + shipping."


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I think I paid $40 to $45 for it some 8+/- years ago. Adds body to my sound when I play at low apartment volume


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

What


player99 said:


> Nah, all their pedals have cheap board mounted switches that break. Their repair is to sell you a new pedal, after you spend the money to ship the broken one back to them at your cost. Then they give you 20% off the retail price of a new one. At least that was my experience. When I asked them what switch to use, or could I buy a switch they said they wouldn't tell. I think later on they said a switch would be $35 USD plus shipping.


What about putting a new foot switch in?

Just bought a used Goudie 808+ and had problem with the bypass switch crapping out, contact cleaner and Bob's your uncle!


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

MarkM said:


> What
> 
> 
> What about putting a new foot switch in?
> ...


I did that. But they wouldn't tell me what switch it was, and inside all the plastic was broken so I couldn't read the code. When I ordered the switch I found that was identical and installed it, the pedal works but I have to click the switch twice to turn it on and twice to turn it off. Wrong switch.

The problem was the switch is mounted to the board, and then there is a nut that sets the height. The nut was set to the wrong height from new, so when I would step on the switch it was cracking the switch housing and was intermittent. That was a real problem. I was gigging at the time and for over a year every once and a while the whole board would go dead, then go back on again. The last thing I though it would be was my brand new TC Electronics Polytuner. Until it finally stayed off long enough to discover that TC Electronics suck.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

I am sure there is some folks here to put you on the proper switch?

Double tap is not the right switch!


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

MarkM said:


> I am sure there is some folks here to put you on the proper switch?
> 
> Double tap is not the right switch!


Of course it is not. But if you read what I posted, the switch was unidentifiable due to the shattering of the plastic it is made of so the writing was not there anymore to identify it. After searching I found the one I bought which was *exactly the same looking* as the correct one. But it was wrong, as I said in my post. I also told you how TC would not tell me what the correct switch was.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

As soon as I finished and discovered the wrong switch I knew what the correct switch was. I was not motivated to continue as it's a Polytune.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

player99 said:


> Here is an OP about TC Electronics on The Gear Page I saw today:
> 
> "I have had a TC Alter Ego X4 that hasn't worked correctly since I got it. The pedal itself has worked ok on the surface but the Toneprint software and saving presets never worked right, same for trying to get the expression pedal parameters to work right. It won't load anything from the software and gets real squirrely. The good part is that it was a Xmas gift.
> 
> ...


Hey, I have no problem allowing for others having some different experiences.
Just because one person has problems with a certain piece of gear ro a brand or a model of gear doesn't mean everybody else will, and just because one person doesn't have any issues doesn't mean that someone else won't have issues.

For one thing we may use the gear differently, we have different frequency of playing and context, etc.
I don't gig, but I have occasionally used my Sub N Up pedal at church.
And I know others that do gig with them with no issues.
Ok--now I have info of those who have had issues with them.

For the most part the comments on Boss pedals you here is about who sturdy they are (& I agree in my experience), but I know people that have had Boss pedals quit on them, and have destroyed them--so it does work both ways.

It does make me wonder about their recent pedals with the Mash button--how does that hold up?


----------



## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Robert1950 said:


> I think I paid $40 to $45 for it some 8+/- years ago. Adds body to my sound when I play at low apartment volume


I have one of these I got used a few years ago for $10.
I also got a used Dano Fab chorus.
Both still work & they work well for what I do.
Possibly the best $20 I ever spent on pedals.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

player99 said:


> Of course it is not. But if you read what I posted, the switch was unidentifiable due to the shattering of the plastic it is made of so the writing was not there anymore to identify it. After searching I found the one I bought which was *exactly the same looking* as the correct one. But it was wrong, as I said in my post. I also told you how TC would not tell me what the correct switch was.


I apologize, you are apparently quite frustrated by TC and didn't need to point that out.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

MarkM said:


> I apologize, you are apparently quite frustrated by TC and didn't need to point that out.


Sorry to have snapped at you. That was a very frustrating thing. I didn't know what was wrong and I would be in the middle of a song on stage and my rig would go silent.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Not that they are necessarily more "bulletproof" than anything else, but one of the virtues of loop selectors is that they let one sidestep switching or other "pedal death" issues in other pedals.


----------



## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

Isn't it just more switches and cables that can go wrong?


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

With loop selectors? Yes, I suppose. The ones I make for myself can be used without any power, so they provide a means for bypassing anything that relies on power.
I've been an advocate for including a minijack on electronically-switched pedals that allows for easy remote switching without requiring audio cables going to and from loop-selectors. That doesn't entirely eliminate the issues you note, but it reduces them substantially, as well as the cost when such issues might occur.


----------



## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

player99 said:


> The problem was the switch is mounted to the board, and then there is a nut that sets the height. The nut was set to the wrong height from new, so when I would step on the switch it was cracking the switch housing and was intermittent. That was a real problem. I was gigging at the time and for over a year every once and a while the whole board would go dead, then go back on again. The last thing I though it would be was my brand new TC Electronics Polytuner. Until it finally stayed off long enough to discover that TC Electronics suck.


Uh oh, my board has intermittently gone dead a couple times recently... I wonder if the Polytune is to blame. Now I'm really sad that I missed out on the Strobostomp tuner sale that I was considering to replace the Polytune.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

zontar said:


> *Hey, I have no problem allowing for others having some different experiences.
> Just because one person has problems with a certain piece of gear ro a brand or a model of gear doesn't mean everybody else will, and just because one person doesn't have any issues doesn't mean that someone else won't have issues.*
> 
> For one thing we may use the gear differently, we have different frequency of playing and context, etc.
> ...


Agree 100%. 

I've never had a problem with TC, including the Polytune and a 35 year old SCF. But I do see a few people expressing their bad experience, some of them over and over again.

Hey, I got 'bit' by a cheapo Kokko compressor pedal - it was intermittent right out of the box (didn't sound great when it did work, anyways) and when I tried to get some support, the huge Chinese company could not find anyone who could speak English or open a youtube file. And yet, I don't come and bitch about it daily on forums. 

Hey, at $35, I understood it was probably disposable, like 99.99% of all Chinese-made crap (and probably, sadly, including a lot of the TC line now....). That's what we get for wanting cheap prices instead of quality. Quality is still out there, but it's taking a beating on internet forums but so many posters can't recognize it.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

High/Deaf said:


> Hey, I got 'bit' by a cheapo Kokko compressor pedal - it was intermittent right out of the box (didn't sound great when it did work, anyways) and when I tried to get some support, the huge Chinese company could not find anyone who could speak English or open a youtube file. And yet, I don't come and bitch about it daily on forums.


You are very stoic to keep the pain of a bad pedal bottled up inside you.


----------



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

troyhead said:


> Uh oh, my board has intermittently gone dead a couple times recently... I wonder if the Polytune is to blame. Now I'm really sad that I missed out on the Strobostomp tuner sale that I was considering to replace the Polytune.


Try troubleshooting the pedal on it's own.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Nah, just not so cheap or unrealistic as to incessantly want to complain about it.

Or maybe I'm just more aware of what a first-world problem is?


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

High/Deaf said:


> Agree 100%.
> 
> I've never had a problem with TC, including the Polytune and a 35 year old SCF. But I do see a few people expressing their bad experience, some of them over and over again.
> 
> ...


Hey, I bought a cheap reverb pedal just over a year ago--and if it doesn't last a long time, I still got my money's worth out of it.
But it keeps going & going--so that's cool.
Same thing getting two used Dano pedals for $10 each--more than got my money out of them & if they break down, I would not hesitate to replace them with the same models if I found them for a decent price.
(Finding would probably be tougher than the decent price part)


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I have some pedals from the 70's that are still working perfectly. TC and others can't make them last a few years.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm not entirely sure I buy that reasoning. But let's stop for a moment and consider what has changed about the way that pedals are made over the past 40+ years.
1) Less use of through-hole and greater reliance on surface-mount.
2) More reliance on smaller and smaller pots.
3) Use of 3PDT bypass switches by more and more manufacturers.
4) Greater use of small enclosures.
5) Greater use of PCB-mount jacks, switches, and pots.
6) Greater reliance on automated fabrication methods.
Those are the things one can easily see. What we can't see or know about is the degree of quality-control and testing any given product is put through, or any given manufacturer engages in.

There is nothing inherently risky about #1, #4, or #6. I have my own personal biases about #2, and believe that the smaller the pot the shorter the lifespan. As for #3, the more contacts in a stompswitch, the more potential issues and risks for non-continuity. There is nothing inherently wrong about #5...so long as the heights of everything are set just right and no undue stress is being placed on the component or the PCB....sometimes a big if.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

mhammer said:


> Not that they are necessarily more "bulletproof" than anything else, but one of the virtues of loop selectors is that they let one sidestep switching or other "pedal death" issues in other pedals.


Is there any particular loop selectors you would choose?

You have me considering one of these.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

MarkM said:


> Is there any particular loop selectors you would choose?
> 
> You have me considering one of these.


None that particularly come to mind. Ideally, you'd want something that is relay-based. I suppose it would depend on how complicated a setup and how big a pedalboard you have. For many players, a simple two-loop unit (i.e., in/out, and two send/return loops) is sufficient, and some folks are even fine with a single loop. For others, of course, they'll want one of those larger units that sits at the front of their pedalboard and offers maybe eight send/return loops that can be saved as preset combinations in memory.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

player99 said:


> I have some pedals from the 70's that are still working perfectly. TC and others can't make them last a few years.


I bought a Goudie FX pedal recently used and I believe this meets the underrated cheap pedal criteria.

I emailed Russell on a Sunday with some questions about a toggle switch on the 808+ TS and mentioned that I had issues with the foot switch til I contact cleaned it.

He got back to me that day with a explanation of the toggle switch and an offer to send me a new footswitch if it keeps causing me issues.

The pedal is an awesome overdrive to boot!

I would encourage you to check out his Canadian company website.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

High/Deaf said:


> Agree 100%.
> 
> I've never had a problem with TC, including the Polytune and a 35 year old SCF. But I do see a few people expressing their bad experience, some of them over and over again.
> 
> .


Had their cheap TC looper which glitches and died. Then had a eventide timefactor where a momentary switch failed. Then have a Empress superdelay that had a momentary switch fail. EHX electric mistress, dead on the shelf. Buddha wah, on shelf. Dunlop wah, on shelf. 

They can all fail regardless of price. 

The TC got my money back. The timefactor was stolen with my whole board. The superdelay I use as is as I'm not needing to change presets very often. The rest I'll fix when I really need them or are less lazy. 


Sent from my H3223 using Tapatalk


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

TheYanChamp said:


> Had their cheap TC looper which glitches and died. Then had a eventide timefactor where a momentary switch failed. Then have a Empress superdelay that had a momentary switch fail. EHX electric mistress, dead on the shelf. Buddha wah, on shelf. Dunlop wah, on shelf.
> 
> They can all fail regardless of price.
> 
> ...


Switches will fail. The problem is when the design of the pedal doesn't allow for an easy replacement. Same with jacks, plugs and even caps. A good pedal will allow for the wear parts to be replaced.


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## Cups (Jan 5, 2010)

Visual Sound pedals. Route 66 V2 go for around 100$ and they sound great.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Found the perfect spot and settings on the weekend with my Boss DS-1. Damn thing had been sitting on the shelf since about 1991. Took it out here and there to fiddle around a bit. Recently read up on how others use it and on the weekend tried a few different placement options among my VS/XO and SL Drives. VS/XO > DS-1>SL Drive. VS/XO and SL are set to just over/under 9:00 position and the DS-1 Tone is 9:00 with 0 gain. I can run all 4 (VS/XO has 2) at the same time or mix and match and it all sounds great. The DS-1 totally sweetens and widens/fattens the bottom end in a very distinct way. 

I'm now calling it 'The poor man's Dumble sound'. It's really killer. Sorry for going on....I get really excited just thinking about it.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

It's both remarkable,and all too familiar, how drive pedals can magically shift from "Yeah, I've lost interest in it" to "MAN, that sounds good!" after some time away from them. I don't know if it's how the pedal sounds, as much as it is rediscovering a style of play that has been on hiatus, and is complemented/supported by that drive.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I went through a bunch the other day and found some to be noisier than others.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

mhammer said:


> It's both remarkable,and all too familiar, how drive pedals can magically shift from "Yeah, I've lost interest in it" to "MAN, that sounds good!" after some time away from them. I don't know if it's how the pedal sounds, as much as it is rediscovering a style of play that has been on hiatus, and is complemented/supported by that drive.


For me it was a little of both, as well as finding the right place on my current board. It's also a matter of not having a preconceived notion of where the Level, Tone, and Gain settings should and shouldn't be. I truly believe that might be a big hurdle in the way people approach tone in general. When I first started using the pedal it was through a Peavey Bandit in High School with absolutely no clue on the concept of Gain staging in an amp. I think once you learn how Amplification works in more detail and all the stages that affect one another ((Tone stack)) tend to work, you can make most so called sub standard pedals work quite nicely.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Yup,few substitutes for knowing how things work.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

Dorian2 said:


> For me it was a little of both, as well as finding the right place on my current board. It's also a matter of not having a preconceived notion of where the Level, Tone, and Gain settings should and shouldn't be. I truly believe that might be a big hurdle in the way people approach tone in general. When I first started using the pedal it was through a Peavey Bandit in High School with absolutely no clue on the concept of Gain staging in an amp. I think once you learn how Amplification works in more detail and all the stages that affect one another ((Tone stack)) tend to work, you can make most so called sub standard pedals work quite nicely.


Well that about sums up my ill spent youth!

I went through most Boss distortion and overdrive pedals in the 80's and early 90's. Then I started playing high gain tube amps with several channels. Now I want to drive 15 watt tube amps hard and boost with a TS.


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## RYAN1987M (Feb 19, 2019)

I'd count the Animals Relaxing Walrus Delay in this category!

I got mine for $99 CDN from Cosmo and I'm in love with it!


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

"Goo coo kagoo I am the walrus"

I google boxed this and it seems like a pretty good delay for the buck.

Is it noisy at all? Play a Hungarian minor and you would be in the mountains in Japan.


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