# Kingsley versus Effectrode



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I was thinking about picking up another tube drive. I use to own the Kingsley Jester and a page. The one I wished I had kept is the page. They're hard to find used and when you do there more money than new. I emailed Simon the other day and its a 1 year waiting list.
So I'm tossing around the idea of an Effectrode tube drive. Its bloody expensive to, more than the Kingsley drives. But at least I can get one now. Electric Mojo has stock.
So has anyone ever had the chance to compare them to Kingsley? Or has anyone had a chance to try the Effectrode tube drive?


----------



## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

Yeah. I've had both and much, much preferred the Kingsley. I like the Effectrode stuff, especially the compressor and the vibe pedal, but their drive pedals are quite unusual sounding. I've had both the Blackbird and the Tube Drive and couldn't make either of them work for me. I disliked the sound, but they also had ground hum when used with other pedals and could only be powered with the wall wart supply (1.5A 15V) I contacted them about it and they were not helpful. 

In contrast I've had three Minstrels and a Harlot and all sounded great and were super easy to dial in and both could be powered easily with my Strymon power supply so no ground hum.

On the good side, Charles will let you try it, and if its not your thing you can send it back.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Take a peek at the Fender MTG pedals (they have two with that name). Both use a mini-tube. And a lot cheaper than Kingsley or Effectrode. Not to take anything away from either of them, because they put a lot of thought into the design, but so has Fender. You can hear demos here:


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

zdogma said:


> Yeah. I've had both and much, much preferred the Kingsley. I like the Effectrode stuff, especially the compressor and the vibe pedal, but their drive pedals are quite unusual sounding. I've had both the Blackbird and the Tube Drive and couldn't make either of them work for me. I disliked the sound, but they also had ground hum when used with other pedals and could only be powered with the wall wart supply (1.5A 15V) I contacted them about it and they were not helpful.
> 
> In contrast I've had three Minstrels and a Harlot and all sounded great and were super easy to dial in and both could be powered easily with my Strymon power supply so no ground hum.
> 
> On the good side, Charles will let you try it, and if its not your thing you can send it back.


Yeah maybe my best bet is to stick to Kingsley and just grab the next Page or Jester that comes up for sale. I know that I like the Kingsley pedals.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Take a peek at the Fender MTG pedals (they have two with that name). Both use a mini-tube. And a lot cheaper than Kingsley or Effectrode. Not to take anything away from either of them, because they put a lot of thought into the design, but so has Fender. You can hear demos here:


I wonder if these pedals use high voltages like Kingsley and Effectrode. To me it seems to be the difference between actually using the tube in the signal path and just having a tube in there for marketing.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The MTG LA apparently uses a "high" voltage, though I have no idea how much higher "high" is.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I might take a trip up to Burlington or Hamilton L&M after supper to have a look at the MTG tube distortion. I can't seem to find anything about the MTG LA. Whats the difference?


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

mhammer said:


> The MTG LA apparently uses a "high" voltage, though I have no idea how much higher "high" is.


powered by 9v and drawing 290 MA so not likely. The Kingsley pedals are powered by 12v and draw 500 MA or more.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Note that there are plenty of ways to take 9V in and crank it up to a whole lot more, whether via charge pumps or custom step-up transformers.


guitarman2 said:


> I can't seem to find anything about the MTG LA. Whats the difference?


Fender describes it as being a higher-gain version of essentially the same architecture. Note that the MTG LA is co-designed by Bruce Egnater. If it doesn't sound the way you want, then it doesn't. I only mention it because it's more readily available than Kingsley, cheaper, and has some nice features. Most of the pedals recently produced by Fender under Stan Cotey's aegis have been home runs, or at least standing triples.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

mhammer said:


> Note that there are plenty of ways to take 9V in and crank it up to a whole lot more, whether via charge pumps or custom step-up transformers.


I don't really understand the theory behind how it works other than a general consensus is that starved plate designs aren't really using the tube. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the voltage, 9v, 12v, etc, or the current draw, or both. That effectrode tube drive draws 1.5A.
The only tube pedals I've ever owned were the Kingsley Jester, Page and the effectrode PC-2A compressor. The Kingsley stuff I loved and never heard a solid state drive pedal sound so amp like. The effectrode compressor I didn't like so much. It was a great pedal but I couldn't get it as transparent and sweet sounding as my newly acquired Empress compressor. So tubes in pedals aren't the "end all" all the time.
But as you say the Fender stuff is close and easier to get so I can at least try it. I'll probably pick one up and bring it home knowing I've got 30 days to give it a try. It sounds like the "tube distortion" and not the "LA" pedal would be the one I'm interested in.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

"Starved" simply means a lower plate voltage than what the tube can handle , or that will yield the cleanest amplification. The various tube preamps that PAiA sells/sold were described as being run "starved" at 45V, via a charge pump that goosed 12V into a higher voltage.

Don't confuse _actual_ current draw with the specs of the adapter. Adapters tend to come in big steps. So you'll see 100ma, 300ma, 500ma, 800ma, 1A, etc., and are substantially less likely to see 130ma, 340ma, 760ma, etc. So manufacturers will legend the pedal with the next readily obtainable step above what the pedal needs just to be certain you're providing enough current. Certainly few, if any, manufacturers would label the pedal with exactly what the circuit needs, since it might draw a little more and tax the power supply. Long story short, the chassis might say 1.5A but the pedal actually draws less than that much of the time.

I hope my referral gets you what you want, faster and cheaper, or at the very least persuades you why your original choices are actually the best ones for your needs.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

mhammer said:


> "Starved" simply means a lower plate voltage than what the tube can handle , or that will yield the cleanest amplification. The various tube preamps that PAiA sells/sold were described as being run "starved" at 45V, via a charge pump that goosed 12V into a higher voltage.
> 
> Don't confuse _actual_ current draw with the specs of the adapter. Adapters tend to come in big steps. So you'll see 100ma, 300ma, 500ma, 800ma, 1A, etc., and are substantially less likely to see 130ma, 340ma, 760ma, etc. So manufacturers will legend the pedal with the next readily obtainable step above what the pedal needs just to be certain you're providing enough current. Certainly few, if any, manufacturers would label the pedal with exactly what the circuit needs, since it might draw a little more and tax the power supply. Long story short, the chassis might say 1.5A but the pedal actually draws less than that much of the time.
> 
> I hope my referral gets you what you want, faster and cheaper, or at the very least persuades you why your original choices are actually the best ones for your needs.


You were right about the step up in voltage inside the pedal. The Fender MTG steps to 150v inside.
Anyway I just ordered the effectrode from Electric Mojo. With the shipping and taxes comes to $650. Fucken ridiculous for a pedal. Never thought I'd ever spend that on a pedal. I'll also be picking up the Fender MTG to compare. I'll have 45 days to return the effectrode for a full refund and from L&M will have 30 days to return the Fender. I'm not going to consider cost as a factor of which pedal I will keep. It will simply be the best sounding and the one that works best for me. Although of course, deep down inside, I'm hoping the Fender wins out.
Geez, $650 I'm most of the way to a decent small amp for that much. 
Supposedly these effectrode pedals with their all analog circuitry (no op amps) its just about like an amp.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

There are a few other cheaper tube pedals that come to mind - even a Tubescreamer with a tube. But I don't think they are in the same orbit as Simon's pedals (or probably the Effectrode, which I have no experience with).




guitarman2 said:


> Supposedly these effectrode pedals with their all analog circuitry (no op amps) its just about like an amp.


I don't know if that's just bad copy from the company, but op amps are still analog circuitry. One could happily print 'all analog' and have op amps in their signal path - and they wouldn't be lying. 

Perhaps they meant 'discrete analog circuitry', which to most people means separate transistors and excludes op amps (which are just ganged transistors in a DIP package). I see this terminology abused all the time.


----------



## Guest (Aug 15, 2019)

Kingsley changed my rig for the better.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Player99 said:


> Kingsley changed my rig for the better.


After viewing the TPS episode where Kingsley's Simon Jarrett appeared, I was quite impressed with is overall approach (mostly because it resembled my own more systems-focussed orientation). A little too rich for my blood, but I have little doubt that they're thoughtful, well-designed devices. I will add, however, that I have been similarly impressed with Fender's recent offerings.


----------



## Guest (Aug 15, 2019)

mhammer said:


> After viewing the TPS episode where Kingsley's Simon Jarrett appeared, I was quite impressed with is overall approach (mostly because it resembled my own more systems-focussed orientation). A little too rich for my blood, but I have little doubt that they're thoughtful, well-designed devices. I will add, however, that I have been similarly impressed with Fender's recent offerings.


I played the Kingsley Minstrel when I tried out a friends pedal board. I never forgot the sound and the feel of the Minstrel. A year or two later he posted it for sale and I bought it. It is the core of my rig now. It was about $550 or $560 used, but sometimes a piece of gear is worth it. Recently it got noisy and I changed the tube. This changed the sound, feel and settings slightly. I have adjusted though.


----------



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Well I spent the last couple of hours with the Effectrode tube drive and it didn't really work for me. I have a Tone King Sky King with channel 1 being a blackface inspired sound and a channel 2 thats more tweed to Marshall. Using the tube drive on channel 1, which is where I really would have liked to use this tube drive, it really emphasizes the scooped sound. If the tube drive had a mid control I think it would have worked better. Cleaning up the tube drive as more of a boost worked not too bad. Using the tube drive on channel 2, I cleaned up the channel for a clean tweed sound and had the tube drive set for mid crunch. It sounded exactly like when I set channel 2 for mic crunch. Identical. So I'll say one thing for this pedal, its very transparent and didn't color the tone much. 
I will still be trying the Fender MTG and see if that will give me something my amp doesn't. But I have a feeling that the 2 channels on my Tone King will be enough. With the dual ironman attenuators I can set mild breakup on channel 2 which is the clean tone I like and a mid to light crunch on channel 1. 
It works great at home but at a gig the way the attenuators come down in clicks might be a problem on channel 2. With a drive pedal I have a bit more control on where I set the volume.
I'm not gigging at all right now so not really an immediate problem to deal with.


----------

