# Gibson Les Paul or PRS?



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I am looking at picking up a Gibson Les Paul. But after reading some reviews it seems that they are plagued with quality issues as of late. I'd like something of good quality and don't mind paying extra for it. I've heard good things about PRS guitars but don't know much about them. Can anyone give me any insight. Which PRS model would be comparable to the Les Paul?


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## Mogwaii (Feb 16, 2007)

Paul said:


> What do you do for a living, and can you get me a job there?:smile:
> 
> I'm not a huge LP fan....For a 2 'bucker guitar I much much much prefer an ES335 style. That hammer can hit a wider range of nails than a Les Paul, IMHO.
> 
> ...


If we're talking hollowbodies too, then the ES-339 would be a good place to start. It's the ES-335 thats the size of a Les Paul. 

If we're talking Les Paul vs. PRS then I'd say the Les Paul. PRS are nice guitars but for preference, I'd like a good LP.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

What about taking a look at some of the higher quality LP builders like Collings or McInturff? I hear some excellent things about some of those brands... great quality control and very competitive pricing, especially compared to the high-end LPs.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2009)

PRS all the way. I am, of course, biased, being a current PRS owner. The LPs I've owned have always disappointed me in one way or another. They've never stuck around long.


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## Rex Lannegan (Mar 2, 2006)

I've got an older LP ('79) that I love and will probably always have.

I bought a PRS CE24...and sold it a few months later. I found the PRS played nice, was beautiful but it just didn't have the sound I was looking for. It was thin and bland when compared to the LP. I've since moved onto a Strat.

With an investment like that I would recommend you play both and determine your own taste.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Word is a Les Paul can get certain tones that no other guitar can get. Having not owned every type of guitar (yet) I will say the 3 Les's I've owned certainly get sounds nothing else gets.

Les Paul Standards - well, you have 2 lines to choose from now...the chambered Standard and the weight relieved Traditional. For full solid, you're going used back about 6-7yrs+ or Custom Shop. There ARE good current build Les Pauls but you might have to look at several to find 'the one'.

PRS has a better reputation for fit & finish, a not-so-hot reputation for their pickups (until recently, a couple of the new models get raves), and *don't quite* get you all the way there to Les tone. Also, people are bitching about the nuts on most current production PRS's so watch for that.

My only PRS USA is a Mira, great guitar but no Les Paul. Pickups are really neutral, I find them fairly flat but that does work well for some applications. Same pups are in the SC245's but I couldn't tell you what they sound like in that guitar.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

First, don't believe all the QC issues you see about Gibson on the internet. Most of them simply translate to "I can't afford a Gibson so they suck". If you buy a new Les Paul, be prepared to have it set up for you. They are purposely left high from the factory.

For a Les Paul, if you can afford it, I suggest anything in the Historic line. Watch the classifieds here, there's usually one or two around at good prices.

But the choice between PRS and Gibson, I think you'll have to test drive them for awhile to make that choice. Both excellent quality. Comfort, playability, tone, you have to decide these for yourself.

A PRS isn't for me, but that doesn't mean it isn't for you.


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## LastRide (Apr 13, 2007)

To each his own. I would recommend going to a music store and test drive them yourself. They are both high end guitars. You might like the feel of one but the sound of the other. They are both heavy guitars. As to which PRS sounds like a Lester I am not too sure. My PRS modern eagle sounds different than a les Paul. My buddy had a CE24 or might have been 22 that sounded similar to a Lester.


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## Pneumonic (Feb 14, 2008)

All else (sound, playability, looks, quality) being equal get the LP. I mean it's a LP. 

Probably a sounder investment from a collectible point as well. Especially if you get an already aged one.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Personnaly i'de go for a LP. As for Quality issues, don't think it's wrost then others. I've played a couple 2000$ + PRS and could'nt ever get over the feeling that they did'nt sound like anything greath, but that's a personnal thing for me. 

you can get a good Used LP for under 2400$..or if you got more $$$...Farcaster,s LP is DA BOMB to get realy.


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## northern1 (Feb 2, 2006)

I do like the Gibson's but... you have to play so many to find one you like due to the inconsistancy and quality issues. Go try a PRS SC245 they were compared closely to a Gibson Historic R9 and considered to be great value. They have a great feel all around not as combersome as the Gibson's, as for the pickups well PRS finally nailed it with this one IMHO.


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## Mogwaii (Feb 16, 2007)

I've strummed a few PRS's but really only played a few SE's and my personal opinion is that they feel like toys.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

What I have heard is that the PRS' tend to be set up better right out of the box, but that the Gibsons can sound better with a little tweaking.

I've owned a couple of Gibsons and played a few PRS.

I'd take the Gibson.

As for substituting a Ls Paul with a semi hollow ES, I wouldn't do that. The Semis are not great at higher gain and volume levels. In my opinion that makes them less flexible than Les Paul.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

dwagar said:


> First, don't believe all the QC issues you see about Gibson on the internet. Most of them simply translate to "I can't afford a Gibson so they suck". If you buy a new Les Paul, be prepared to have it set up for you. They are purposely left high from the factory.
> 
> For a Les Paul, if you can afford it, I suggest anything in the Historic line. Watch the classifieds here, there's usually one or two around at good prices.
> 
> ...



Not to nitpick, but I assure you there are MANY people who can afford a Les Paul, but simply do not believe the value is reflected in the price.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

Milkman said:


> Not to nitpick, but I assure you there are MANY people who can afford a Les Paul, but simply do not believe the value is reflected in the price.


That wasn't my point. I'm sure that's probably correct. A Les Paul doesn't have to be a $4000 guitar though, there are used ones out there that start about $500.

My point was that most of the QC issue threads I see are simply justifications for not being able to afford one. 'Well, I tried a Gibson and the nut sucked so my Epi is better.' Know what I mean? Tons of them. 

Rarely I do see a thread about a real QC issue. But, that's why new guitars have a warranty. 

To shy away from Gibson or PRS because you've seen threads on the internet about QC issues, really take them with a grain of salt. Both are excellent manufacturers and you should be very happy with either one.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Paul said:


> I've played an ES-339 in a store and I found that the smaller body unbalanced the guitar. Too much neck dive for me. The ES-339 isn't as bothersome to me as an SG, but neck heavy guitars are a bane to my existance.


I've tried three 339s and they were to die for. It's like they designed this guitar for me. It's just that I am always cash strapped and in the time it took me to save $325 , it went up in price $375. So I'm just waiting for someone to die and leave me money,... or a lottery would be good.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

If I was presented with a McCarty or a Les Paul and was forced to make a choice (it would be painful), I would end up choosing the McCarty for one reason - it is a double cut. I just find the heel and single cut of the LP to awkward.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

dwagar said:


> That wasn't my point. I'm sure that's probably correct. A Les Paul doesn't have to be a $4000 guitar though, there are used ones out there that start about $500.
> 
> My point was that most of the QC issue threads I see are simply justifications for not being able to afford one. 'Well, I tried a Gibson and the nut sucked so my Epi is better.' Know what I mean? Tons of them.
> 
> ...


I agree. I've never seen any significant quality issues with new Gibsons, although I have been told by some avid Gibsonites that they regularly have the nuts worked on with brand new LPs.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

I vote for the Les Paul. But you have to play a few and see which one speaks to you. I'd also suggest looking at historic gold tops and used burst historics instead of the regular line.

The PRS is just different and if you are looking for that different it's a great guitar but it is no Les Paul.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

dwagar said:


> First, don't believe all the QC issues you see about Gibson on the internet. Most of them simply translate to "I can't afford a Gibson so they suck".


As much as I hate to admit it...that's true. There are issues and there are people with issues. It is very difficult to differentiate between the two!


dwagar said:


> A PRS isn't for me, but that doesn't mean it isn't for you.


I agree here too but not because I really want to. I have to agree because when I first saw PRS guitars I really wanted one because of the looks of it. I typically like classic looking things but the odd thing with some more aesthetic attraction and detail is nice too. I had never seen the birds on the neck and I thought "that's unique"...of course now that I've seen a million with birds on the neck I think I need gravol every time I see them. Seriously, they should have made that a limited thing. It took the 'cool' and the 'nice' right out of it being so common-but that's not the point. I could never find a PRS that even came close to saying "take me home" if you know what I mean and I was all over the price range.

Gibson Les Pauls however I have found it easy to find one that 'hit the spot'.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I think I'm going to stick with my original plan and lean toward the Les Paul as that is the sound I want. Long&Mcquade is a PRS dealer according to the PRS site, so if they have some models in stock I am certainly going to test them.
Thanks for all the help.


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## fretboard (May 31, 2006)

For the kind of cash you're talking, I'd highly suggest hitting the 12th Fret and spending an afternoon in one of their little guitar rooms and really give the various guitars a test drive. They're also a PRS & Gibby dealer so you'll have some variety. Certainly the "new" guitars will be in better shape and set-up more realistically than what I typically see at L&M.

Also probably worth your time to read up on the various options on PRS guitars - things like wide/fat vs. wide/thin necks, 3-way toggle with push/pull vs. rotarty knob for pick-up selection, etc. If you don't know that kinda stuff before you pick one up, you'll likely put it back wondering what all the fuss is about.

Not even close to a fair fight between PRS and Gibson in my books, but it took me a while to figure out which options are for me, which models, etc.


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

dwagar said:


> A Les Paul doesn't have to be a $4000 guitar though, *there are used ones out there that start about $500*.


????

I'm looking at the wrong websites.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> Excellent point....based on the clips Terry posted last week I know he's not pushing the gain, but I can't really tell if the volume is a challenge. That's for Terry to work out.
> 
> That said, if Ted Nugent can make it work with a Byrdland, then there is a solution for an ES-335 or ES-337.:smile:


I read a story about Framptons change from an ES to a Les Paul. He was aparently struggling with feedback and a samaritan urned hm on the the joys of solid body guitars. The rest is history.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> You mean this history???:smile:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well I prefer Frampton Comes Alive. There was some smoking guitar on that album and I love his use of Leslies.


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## Mogwaii (Feb 16, 2007)

puckhead said:


> ????
> 
> I'm looking at the wrong websites.


It is true, they're just usually repaired from a serious accident such as a headstock break.


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## Andy (Sep 23, 2007)

Check out the PRS Sunburst 245 -- it's their most Les Paul-like guitar in the line, both in look and specification.

Also, have you looked at the Godin Summit? It's not exactly a Les Paul, but it's also 40% of the price. The one I played absolutely sold me -- if I didn't have too many guitars already, I'd have bought it. It has an Ebony fretboard, too, which I strongly prefer.


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

Paul said:


> The closest PRS has to a Les Paul is the single cut. They got sued over it, so it must be close.


Unsuccessfully......... PRS won that excersize in stupidity
I would go PRS singlecut or McCarty any day. Just better designed, playing and sounding guitar........IMHO :food-smiley-015:


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

Paul said:


> What do you do for a living, and can you get me a job there?:smile:
> 
> I'm not a huge LP fan....For a 2 'bucker guitar I much much much prefer an ES335 style. That hammer can hit a wider range of nails than a Les Paul, IMHO.
> 
> ...


They did get sued over it....and Gibson lost. An internal E mail from one Gibson employee to another said that 'only an idiot could confuse the two guitars.' PRS got hold of that E mail and the game was all over.

I own 3 Les Pauls, 2 standards and an R8. I also own 3 PRS guitars, a McCarty Trem, a Custom 24 and a Custom 22 trem.

PRS guitars look sound and play like PRS guitars.....not Gibsons. If you want to have a Gibson sound....buy one. If you want a PRS sound buy one. Neither is better, they are different.


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## mario (Feb 18, 2006)

Like some of the previous posters mentioned...try out a few Les Pauls and PRSs' and see what is good for YOU. As you can see from my sig, I am a huge PRS fan. Might I suggest trying out a McCarty. They are my fav PRS. I love everything about them (looks, feel, playability and most importantly tone). They do everything I want and more. Also, the split coil switch is IMHO the best I have ever heard from a humbucker.

Happy hunting!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Just repeating what has been said.

I own a gibson les paul. it is the most expensive thing I've paid for myself, it is the only electric guitar I have kept in the last 3 years (and i bought 4 guitars including this one ), and it is my go to axe.

If you want a gibson les paul, test drive every one you can get your hands on until you find the one that speaks to you. Me, i didn't get to test out my guitar - it was in a Steve's in Montreal and my mom happened to have a business trip there - it came home with her. Lucky for me, the guitar had 1 incredibly minor finish problem and that was it - might have got $50 off at the store tops, who knows.

I've played a wall of PRS's - metal J's on here. I've also tested out a mesa dual rec using a PRS singlecut SE - the only singlecut that was in the store. They are all great guitars (i believe he has/had a USA singlecut for sale that i desperately want on principle of it being my favourite PRS singlecut) but a PRS singlecut will not be a les paul, ever.

It's up to you to decide what you want, we can't decide for you. You can be assured that between a USA PRS new or used or a USA Gibson LP new or used, you're getting a hell of a guitar (provided you go over the used ones!).

I sold a tokai PRS copy, a Schecter C7 blackjack and Carvin DC727 w/ upgrades - because none of them had the "it" factor that my LP has.

Lucky me, I'm having a custom 7-string singlecut made for me, with the perfect 7-string neck for me (which is what the C7 and DC727 lacked). So that hunt will be over, I hope.

and all this talk of "man, the upper fret access on les pauls is terrible!"...

Free Tip: RAISE YOUR GUITAR'S HEIGHT!


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## mario (Feb 18, 2006)

Archer said:


> PRS guitars look sound and play like PRS guitars.....not Gibsons. If you want to have a Gibson sound....buy one. If you want a PRS sound buy one. Neither is better, they are different.


Exactly! Great post.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I prefer the feel of the Les Paul, but some will prefer the PRS.
I've never found PRS's comfortable to play, but if I got one--it would be the single cut--if I had the money.

Try several examples of both, see what's out there.
It all depends what you want out of it.


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## JMann (Feb 18, 2007)

I'll add my 2 cents:

I own a PRS Satin SC Trem and Gibson Standard LP.

As already mentioned, PRS's and Gibson's are both great guitars. But they have their own vibe.

I have only had 1 Gibson in my 30 yrs playing and that is the current one. 

Beatiful sounding guitar. Inspiring. It contains a Rock and Roll history at your fingertips. So easy to play with a fretboard that has the ability to feel like your fingers are just gliding. Clean sounds, for humbuckers, are almost as great as the distorted tones. Sounds great whether playing through a Twin Reverb, THD or my favorite for the LP, my Trinity Plexi 18, which sounds so freaking good with LP>Crunchbox>DD2O>Plexi that I wonder if that isn't the pinnacle for the LP/Marshall sound.

I have had no quality issues wih the LP. But it is only a 1 Gibson sample size.
Versatility you would think is limited but it wouldn't stop me from playing a night of cover tunes with it. Might be difficult to cop, say, Sultans of Swing with it or country but it can be done.

As for the PRS, clinical and sterile are words that always come to mind when describing it. It is so well built you can't ignore it's immaculate construction.
But maybe it's the pups, wood choice, trem or a combination of things that make it sound, at times, like it would be the choice guitar for MD's. I like the versatility provided with the coil tap and the trem. And the cleans are marginally better than the LP. The dirt is where the LP out distances the PRS. And that really isn't a slight on the PRS, it's just the LP's dirty sounds are that much better.

There is a certain vibe, tone, feel that I just love with the LP. But I still won't give up my PRS.

Knowing what I know now, I would go for the LP.

Good luck:smilie_flagge17:

Thanx,
Jim


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## Stevo (Apr 3, 2008)

I'll weigh in on this one too as I own one of each. In my experience, I think you have to go Custom Shop with a LP to get the same quality out of the box as a PRS. That said, both guitars (a '95 Standard 24 and a Warren Haynes sig LP) sound nothing like each other. The PRS has it's own character which is great and so does the LP, equally great. I would hit a store that has both and find out which one is for you, there is no substitute for hands on!! 

Just buy both, you know you wanna..... :rockon2:


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

guitarman2 said:


> I am looking at picking up a Gibson Les Paul. But after reading some reviews it seems that they are plagued with quality issues as of late. I'd like something of good quality and don't mind paying extra for it. I've heard good things about PRS guitars but don't know much about them. Can anyone give me any insight. Which PRS model would be comparable to the Les Paul?


Buy faracaster's Les Paul...:bow:


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## evenon (Nov 13, 2006)

I own both a PRS SC245 ( the closest in the PRS lineup to a Les Paul) and a 2002 '58 Historic Reissue Les Paul. 

Pure tone.... the Les Paul

Workmanship, tuning stability, intonation, playability, replaceability (they are very consistent), value - the PRS


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

What does 'pure tone' mean? Maybe the 'pure tone' of a Les Paul sounds 'plain wrong' to somebody so they go PRS and find 'pure tone'

Broad definitions like that are not really valid.

I think under gain settings PRS guitars DEMOLISH Gibsons. I like my Les Pauls for cleanish to mid gain stuff...under medium and high gain I'll take a PRS any time (though they wouldnt be my first choice) I find them clearer sounding and punchier.


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

Budda said:


> I've played a wall of PRS's - metal J's on here. I've also tested out a mesa dual rec using a PRS singlecut SE - the only singlecut that was in the store. They are all great guitars (i believe he has/had a USA singlecut for sale that i desperately want on principle of it being my favourite PRS singlecut) but a PRS singlecut will not be a les paul, ever.



You are right, that is why they dont have the words 'Gibson' and 'Les Paul' on the headstock.


Also, you tried an SE, they are really good but are not nearly as good as a US made Singlecut.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

evenon said:


> I own both a PRS SC245 ( the closest in the PRS lineup to a Les Paul) and a 2002 '58 Historic Reissue Les Paul.
> 
> Pure tone.... the Les Paul
> 
> Workmanship, tuning stability, intonation, playability, replaceability (they are very consistent), value - the PRS


Absolutely!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Archer said:


> You are right, that is why they dont have the words 'Gibson' and 'Les Paul' on the headstock.
> 
> 
> Also, you tried an SE, they are really good but are not nearly as good as a US made Singlecut.


having played a USA singlecut prior to the SE, it's a damn nice guitar - but i would never EVER pay new price for a PRS USA model.


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## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

I love Gibson... when the stars align they make great gtr's... in this case however I must be honets... PRS all the way for single cut heaven.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Damn xplornet timed out and I didn't think it posted


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

After you have decided try and find used Terry , you'll save yourself a lot . 

I will say if you are used to Tele's the 25.5" scale of a Gibson might not suit you . PRS has the 25" which is between Gibson and Fender and may be more to your liking . When looking at PRS guitars steer clear of the rotary switch equipped models , the toggle with push/pull tone pot is the best bet . 
I would say compare a LP and a PRS single cut and make yor own decision :smile:


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

Budda said:


> having played a USA singlecut prior to the SE, it's a damn nice guitar - but i would never EVER pay new price for a PRS USA model.


I hear you....to be honest the only guitars I have ever bought new are 2 of my Andersons. 

That is why I keep my ears open for used stuff.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

used is often the way to go - i've bought 3 guitars in the last two years and none of them were over $700 and none of them were new lol. now after two setups on one and fixing an issue.. haha.

when i get my custom, that will be my first new guitar since my les paul.

and if you want a gibson-killer, buy a singlecut made by a luthier


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## Cdn_Cracker (Oct 7, 2006)

I have a McCarty and have always been enamored with Lesters... I have played almost every model out in the past 10 years (Thank you Lauzons!!). I find that there is pretty much a LP for every taste.. and PRS is catching up quickly with their McCartys, 245s, Singles and whatnot. I find that while the PRS feel great and are extremely comfortable, they lack the balls of a LP.

Only a Lester feels like a Lester. Imagine you are standing in front of yourself with both guitars. What one gives you the warm and fuzzy? For me, I love my PRS, but when I picture myself with a LP, I feel like Warren Hayes (too bad I can't play like him).


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## Archer (Aug 29, 2006)

nitehawk55 said:


> After you have decided try and find used Terry , you'll save yourself a lot .
> 
> I will say if you are used to Tele's the 24.5" scale of a Gibson might not suit you . PRS has the 25" which is between Gibson and Fender and may be more to your liking . When looking at PRS guitars steer clear of the rotary switch equipped models , the toggle with push/pull tone pot is the best bet .
> I would say compare a LP and a PRS single cut and make yor own decision :smile:



Telecasters have a 25.5 scale.


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Archer said:


> Telecasters have a 25.5 scale.


Sorry , ment that .


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## nitehawk55 (Sep 19, 2007)

Paul said:


> Orrrrrrr.....go a different way and look in to the Ernie Ball Music Man guitars. The hype writers at the 12th fret often claim that the EB/MM guitars are their favourite solid bodies. You can get some very cool feature sets in those guitars.
> 
> Just muddying the waters, as it were.


Had one EBMM and it played great too but I didn't keep it although I should have .
One piece of advice with EBMM guitars....do not buy new , if you sell it be prepaired to take a BIG hit on the selling price .


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## Eric Pykala (Jul 1, 2006)

I've owned lots of LPs, love them, and will own more in my career. That said, I played the Warren Haynes plaintop when they came out and was very impressed as a players' LP. However, and this is a big one, I paid within a few dollars of it and got a PRS Singlecut 245 with the now-discontinued Artist Package. Mine has an amazing top, is light, has great upper-fret access. The controls all work throughout their travel so you don't have to do the "buy it and gut it" thing a lot of folks do with Lesters to bring them up to snuff. The fit and finish far surpass my old R9, which was a good one, but 50% more expensive. To those who say it won't sound like a "real" LP I say "horse hockey". Come hear my band play "Stormy Monday"; Duane and Dickey would be proud. -Eric


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

When is someone going to make a double cut with, someone said, with the balls of a single cut Lester.


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## Eric Pykala (Jul 1, 2006)

The LP Doublecut is chambered and has nowhere near the clobber of singlecut LP.


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## faracaster (Mar 9, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> When is someone going to make a double cut with, someone said, with the balls of a single cut Lester.


They have........ it's called a McCarty.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

One of the police officers in my home town picked up a DC to go with his LP - the DC has higher output pickups then his SC, and he was amazed that it packs more of a punch.

At some point i want to hang out with those guitars and his marshall and see what happens.. no noise complaints for me  haha


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

faracaster said:


> They have........ it's called a McCarty.


There is someone there here in this thread of the opinion that it was not.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2009)

Les Paul all the way, but... buy it with your ears first, that is to say try a load of them, well set up, blindfolded if you can or a really dark room, no bull. They don't all sound identical. Jeff Heally ,RIP, could attest to that. He's picked Squiers over Fenders and Standards over Customs. In fact I remember seeing him play a black Standard on a MuchMusic concert some years ago. $ does not equate to sound quality or playability. There are some darn good LPs under $2700. You'll always get your money back on a Les Paul if you tire of it later on.
A PRS is pricier and buyers are scarcer. You can't go wrong with a decent Les Paul as much as I detest the current Gibson organization.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

This discussion makes me reeeally glad that I am getting a custom singlecut 7.

Gibson control layout, carved top
LTD Eclipse tummy cut and carve on the back of the lower horn
PRS-esque lower horn
Sherman-style neck joint

so pretty much I am getting the dream singlecut  haha


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## Mogwaii (Feb 16, 2007)

Budda said:


> This discussion makes me reeeally glad that I am getting a custom singlecut 7.
> 
> Gibson control layout, carved top
> LTD Eclipse tummy cut and carve on the back of the lower horn
> ...


That's the only thing that they could improve for me, is adding the cutout on the back so it rests against you a little better.


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