# Pine 4x10 -laminated or solid knotty?



## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

I've always admired the Tweed Bassman as an amp and know the cab/speaker setup is what really helps with its feel (and it's difference from the early Marshalls). Since I quite need another 4 ohm cab for all my amp heads, I'm thinking I might go for a build. I was also thinking I'd like a naked stained pine look to match my Liverpool cab:








It would have dovetails to match and I'm thinking it would be a nice lighter(ish) cab that should be too big of a deal to get a little dented up on the road and I would load it with the WGS Veteran 10s that I've heard good things about and are quite reasonably priced.

Anyways, my Liverpool we made with laminated pine (I think it is about 2 inch solid strips laminated together).

I think I would prefer the solid knotty pine for this cab because it would look nicer once stained. Does anyone know what the original Bassmen would be?
Does having solid instead of laminated weaken the structural integrity too much or is it negligible? I'm thinking I will use the 1" pine at home depot and make it slightly deeper than the originals at 12". Tone is important of course, and if the wood will vibrate TOO sympathetically, I don't want to overdo the loss of bass (realizing that an open-backed pine cab is not going to be blasting bass anyways).

I'm trying to decide a thickness of baffle as well. I was thinking of staying with 5/8" or 3/4 Void free birch ply for that. Don't know yet either if I will float it...
Thoughts? I'm still trying to research how the 59 did the baffle...


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

Well, I guess this photo I just found answered most of my questions:









I guess I just need to figure out the thickness of the baffle...
Any other ideas/suggestions are appreciated as well.
Thanks


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## MattKnight (Nov 27, 2009)

Hey.

I would suggest 3/4" void free birch for the baffle. I use 1/2" on a 1x12 but would most likely go up to 3/4" for a 4x10.

The nice thing about solid pine laminated in strips is that it strong, straight and warp free. 

When I used solid "Select" pine or "Knotty" I end up laminating it anyway.. I generally don't want any pieces more than 
a few inches (4-5) in width. For me it's more stable and less likely to do weird things 6 months down the road.
But, hey, if you can find wide, dry, flat pine in the width you want.. go for it.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Solid clear pine is hard to source and expensive if you do, also a lot softer than the yellow that Leo used. If you're covering it, laminated should be fine. The baffle on the Bassman is very thin, contributing to the signature sound. It has a strip on the outside perimeter giving it more structural integrity and doubling the thickness. The material is either 1/4" or 5/16" baltic birch. No thicker please and float it.


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## MattKnight (Nov 27, 2009)

Now that is something to keep in mind. I based my baffle sizes on the best thickness for stiffness in a certain size. 
I had forgotten that rules of thumb do not always apply. 
I wonder if the Bassman's thin baffle was done originally for sound or cost savings.. Either way it worked out for them.
Are most Fender baffles from that time period on the thin side?


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Yes, very thin. I'm not sure if it was 1/4" or 5/16" and I don't think 5/16" is available. I've used 1/4". The outside speaker screws and the mounting screws both go through the doubled ply though, giving it more strength.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

WCGill said:


> Solid clear pine is hard to source and expensive if you do, also a lot softer than the yellow that Leo used. If you're covering it, laminated should be fine. The baffle on the Bassman is very thin, contributing to the signature sound. It has a strip on the outside perimeter giving it more structural integrity and doubling the thickness. The material is either 1/4" or 5/16" baltic birch. No thicker please and float it.


So, is there some modern pine that you would recommend that would be closer to what Leo used?
Also, this strip on the outside perimeter, would it also just be another layer of plywood? How wide? It would be on the Front (speaker cloth side) of the baffle? Am I understanding you right?
Thanks for all your insight!

I am not planning to cover it, just stain/coat it slightly like my head.
My first regard is for tone, and is secondly for looks, to accompany my pine head.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

I don't really know what the modern equivalent would be to what Leo used. I use whatever I can find at Home Depot or Windsor Plywood. Clear pine at Windsor is a king's ransom. Yes, the perimeter strip is just a 1" or so strip of baltic glued to the baffle. I use 1/4" on top of 1/4" or 3/8" thick baffle, depending on the application. It goes on the front so that your grille cloth floats. Air nailing and clipping or bending the excess is recommended.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

WCGill said:


> I don't really know what the modern equivalent would be to what Leo used. I use whatever I can find at Home Depot or Windsor Plywood. Clear pine at Windsor is a king's ransom. Yes, the perimeter strip is just a 1" or so strip of baltic glued to the baffle. I use 1/4" on top of 1/4" or 3/8" thick baffle, depending on the application. It goes on the front so that your grille cloth floats. Air nailing and clipping or bending the excess is recommended.


Thanks. I've done that floating the grill cloth with very thin wood on the perimeter of the baffle on some cabs I already have. Thicker wood to also stabilize a thin baffle is the new idea to me I suppose. I never would have predicted that about the Bassman cab, so I appreciate the insight.

I'm wondering if solid Knotty pine will do the trick for the cab because I saw it at Home Depot and it is barely any more money than laminated pine.
I would like that Bassman feel while trying to keep the weight down.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

Still haven't made a final call on the wood, but I will when I am down in Chilliwack in a couple weeks to build it.
Got the rest of the stuff ready to go now though:


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

googled around .. lottsa lumber here.. hey why don't you use some Fir... lighter that pine .. easy to get a couple pieces clear..


http://www.cylex.ca/company/visscher-lumber-11983501.html


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> googled around .. lottsa lumber here.. hey why don't you use some Fir... lighter that pine .. easy to get a couple pieces clear..
> 
> 
> http://www.cylex.ca/company/visscher-lumber-11983501.html



Cool! Thanks! I'll consider Fir. I wonder what that would be like tonally. I wonder if it would it have to be laminated wood, if they make large enough hardwood planks.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

Finally gonna get started on this build. 
I have less than a week to finish it. Going to a wedding this afternoon, but picked up the wood this morning.
Got 3/8" Baltic Birch for the Baffle.
Then after looking around and Considering options in Windsor Plywood I finally settled on solid birch planks. I was really tempted by the maple, but it would have made this cab much heavier than I am going for. None of the birch planks are quite wide enough, so there will be some gluing with some purpleheart accents. Well, really, it will just be purpleheart between the birch to get enough depth, and then the 1/4" top and bottom narrow panels will be purpleheart for the baffle to attach to.
I'll share pics as it progresses.








Matt


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

Finally, got started late this afternoon.
My Father hasn't wired his shop for 220V yet, so I had to borrow a friend's cheap table-saw to bring with me for this visit. Unfortunately, it isn't nearly as precise, so I had to learn how to hand-plane the wood in order to glue them together.
Got a late start this afternoon due to Mother's day, but finally started building. 2 sides glued each, and drying in the clamps for the night. Still need to do more planing of the boards for the top and bottom...


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

A bit more progress:


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

Finally Finished it. Decided to go with Shellac and a coat of wax to finish. (So all done in under 3 hours). The shellac gives it sort of an orangey yellow tint, which I don't mind. 
It actually sounds very nice to me. Does not seem to lack on the lower frequencies (which is always a fear for any cab build). And best of all, it is fantastically light for it's size. I am guessing it is about the same weight as my 1x12 speaker cab made of all Baltic Birch.


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## blam (Feb 18, 2011)

looks really nice!

under 3 hours for the WHOLE process?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Congratulations !!...the finished cab looks fantastic, in itself..... but the head and cab together...WOW...spectacular !!

Cheers

Dave


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

blam said:


> looks really nice!
> 
> under 3 hours for the WHOLE process?


haha! no, that would be more like 40. the 2 coats of shellac and coat of wax took about 3 hours only because they dry so fast. It sure is hard to get a flawless finish like that though. I sure don't have the talent for it (notice I didn't post any extreme close-ups)



greco said:


> Congratulations !!...the finished cab looks fantastic, in itself..... but the head and cab together...WOW...spectacular !!


Thanks to you as well, Dave.
Not the perfect match because the head is pine with an oak colored stain and a poly finish. The bottom photo without the flash gives the most realistic view of the colors. See the head is not as orangey. Close enough for me though. I may swap in a purple-heart faceplate down the road- we shall see.


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