# NAD - Garnet



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Sold my old Sessionman Vocal head a couple years ago to fund a Sunn 1200s. No regrets but I do miss the Garnet.

Today I managed a straight trade: another Sessionman Vocal ( sans any tubes, but I got to test it works before we pulled them; one of the non original 6CA7s was buggered anyway, all cloudy inside - surprised the amp worked) for a used quad of vintage GE 6550 (came to me in that Sunn, but swapped out for NOS Tesla KT88s when I had an issue that turned out to not be the tubes; tested them after as good/strong). Not in as good shape as mine; dirty and rusty. Needs a lot of love, but I have a lot of love to give so that's fine.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Pics or it didn't happen.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

I was just about to add that I'll post pics later when I get home. Just got to my folk's place straight from the shop.

Where you been Gunchman? Haven't seen you round for a bit.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I've been here.

A Bugera V5 came up on Kijiji for $200 and I had to restrain myself. I really just play acoustic these days and the few times a year I pick up the electric, Guitar Rig 4 through the studio monitors sounds fine.

I just wanted it! It looks cool and $200!


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Proof for doubting Gunters:










And when I say dirty/rusty, whoa do I ever mean it:









Love that super safe power cord, eh?









That reverb tank is much rustier than the pics show. There's a million dead spiders in there.










Even the knob set screws are ruster to shit; like how even (baring a trip to Davey Jones' locker)?


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Great catch! 

Let the restoration begin ! I'm certain you'll make her sing again !


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

First up is cleaning off the tolex (so gross) while I research what to do about that rusty OT.

... whaaaaaaaaaat? http://mercurymagnetics.com/pages/news/VGmag/VGAug09Hamernik.pdf


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

You need more tape on this cord...(joke)









Congrats!

Enjoy the project.


----------



## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Every time I see a thread about anything Garnet it re-kindles my GAS for a Herzog, thanks for that.... oh yeah and happy NAD


----------



## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

NUA for a set of tubes?!? Deal!
Congrats bud.


Sent from my other brain.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> ... whaaaaaaaaaat? http://mercurymagnetics.com/pages/news/VGmag/VGAug09Hamernik.pdf


Interesting! ...LOL


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

bzrkrage said:


> NUA for a set of tubes?!? Deal!
> Congrats bud.


Thanks - I thought so. To be fair NOS GE 6550As are US$250-400 per quad (but mine weren't "NOS' by virtue of having been at least slightly used, though they tested as new; I would not misrepresent and would likely not get more than $300 for them, if even that). This was more about the convenience - local, not shipping straight trade and not having to wait 2 months for the sale. I have a bunch of JJ 12A_7s and a pair of E34Ls (my emerg spares from when I had my old Sessionman) so I don't need to buy any tubes to load her up.


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> First up is cleaning off the tolex (so gross) while I research what to do about that rusty OT.
> 
> ... whaaaaaaaaaat? http://mercurymagnetics.com/pages/news/VGmag/VGAug09Hamernik.pdf


Wow.. when I was doing research on how to test an OT I fell on a video of a SVT tech that said he changes OTs if the are rusted ....

Makes you wonder how many guys paid large bills for nothing...


----------



## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Chitmo said:


> Every time I see a thread about anything Garnet it re-kindles my GAS for a Herzog, thanks for that.... oh yeah and happy NAD


You too?


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

I'm actually building a Herzog . This is a distraction from that project (next step: run the heater wiring).

Anyway, this thing was nasty. Once I started cleaning it the smell really came out (the familiar bouquet of bush mechanic's garage). Forgot to clean one edge of the back panel and you can see the diff (the top of the headshell is not coming as clean; that's where the most shit gets spilled I guess; will see if a few repeat passes helps).










The top of that reverb tank wad brown (the cam flash makes it look cleaner in the pic above due to reflectivity). With the grime on top of the rust it looked solid vs that pic.










The good news is that the wiring looks clean and original.










The rust on the trannies is mostly just the back. With the mildew on this thing it seems that it was stored somewhere face in so the rear got the brunt of the humidity.










And yes, apparently we missed 2 of the original tubes (couldn't see them behind the power tranny) when I pulled them for the trade. Shoulda rememberred but I did have the dude check to confirm we got them all before I left. Garnet-branded Mullard 12AX7s - I'll keep those and replace. Wish it was the 12Au7 though; not sure I have one and since this one doesn't have the sockets labelled I don't remember where it goes.










Weird thing is the way this was bolted in. The screw heads did not look original (heaftier, which is cool; no Fender style metal straps, but there were washers - nice touch ), but I only noticed when I started to take her apart to clean that it's mounted to withstand a hurricane: thru bolts clear to the other side of the chassis. Minor point loss for using square nuts (hard to get a grip on in the tight space) and lock washers only on 2/4 of them. That's not original is it? This one can't be much older than my old one (or my other Garnets) which had captive nuts in the chassis lip and shorter bolts (my Rebel couldn't even do thru if you wanted to; as it is, stock, one bolt is shorter than the rest, I found out the hard way, to prevent shorting something to ground; oh Gar, u a funny guy). If aftermarket dude drilled really clean holes; rather impressive. One wouldn't come out; had to cut it. Will try to replace with captive nuts and shorter bolts (I think these are actually bigger diameter than any other Garnet I have owned). If I can't find the parts I'll just replace that one bolt. It's a bear to get the chassis out the way it is because you have to remove both front and back panels (vs just rear) to get at the bolts. Speaking of the back panel, it had been removed a few too many times and the screws were a bit loose in the holes. Doweled and glued (wooden bbq skewers fit perfect, cut a bit short so they are below surface to easily locate the holes when I remount). The only things that make me unsure this was a mod are 1) the clean job and 2) the front panel is mounted with only 1 screw per side (bottomish on both sides). The latter makes taking the thing apart actually possible vs my old one where the front panel had 4 screws - top and bottom (granted those top screw were a bitch, but with a long driver you could get in there between the transformer and the headshell - on this one the bolts would be in the way).



















Things I am wondering about:
- how I can reinforce the cab; looks like someone already tried pocket screws on one corner. Possibly dowelling the back panel holes will be enough but I doubt it.
- the rust be deep. got it down to dark ste el, but the chrome is a writeoff on at least one corner and one handle clamp. Wondering if I should leave it like that (clearcoat to prevent further degradation) or try a chrome rustoleum spray. I'd to the reverb tank too (I checked - can take the guts out easy enough so as to not get paint on them). That might just be horrible though.


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> The good news is that the wiring looks clean and original.


Lucky you !!! 



Granny Gremlin said:


> The rust on the trannies is mostly just the back. With the mildew on this thing it seems that it was stored somewhere face in so the rear got the brunt of the humidity.



I read that leaving the chassis bake in the sun for a couple of days work wonders to bake out humidity in the transformers, humidity can kill a transformer.



Granny Gremlin said:


> Weird thing is the way this was bolted in. The screw heads did not look original (heaftier, which is cool; no Fender style metal straps, but there were washers - nice touch ), but I only noticed when I started to take her apart to clean that it's mounted to withstand a hurricane: thru bolts clear to the other side of the chassis.


The pro 200, 400 and the 600 all have thru bolts. you have to take the front off to remove the chassis...


That thing will be amazing once your done with it !!!


----------



## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

re: transformer rust, I have this stuff they used on battleships to combat corrosion on the hulls vs salt water: it actually converts rust into a plasticy material, and seals the whole thing really well

better than rustoleum

I will find out what it's called; still have a bottle somewhere. had to use it on an old plexi transformer years ago

I also talked to Chris Merren ( of Merren Audio ) and he said outer surface rust on transformers isn't as big a deal as it looks. But still a good idea to seal it, anyway!


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

bolero said:


> re: transformer rust, I have this stuff they used on battleships to combat corrosion on the hulls vs salt water: it actually converts rust into a plasticy material, and seals the whole thing really well
> 
> better than rustoleum
> 
> ...


Yeah that's what I gather. I just want to seal it to prevent it from getting worse. I was gonna use black spray enamal (have laying about), but considering the goop (looks stock) on the PT, I'll wait for the details on that battleship stuff. Thanks.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Escalated to acetone and still can't get the top of the headshell completely clean, but it's much better; it's character now vs gross.

Anyway, I estimate this amp is an early 72. The codes on the OT and both chokes is DGJ1 (Dec 71) the code on the PT is DGL0 (Oct 70). I never realised Marsland made the iron for Garnet - though it was Hammond. I'll check the pots later when I remove the faceplate to clean and look at the rust around there (think I'm just going to replace all those 1/4" jack nuts vs cleaning - all 9 of them - what a pain).


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Anyway, I estimate this amp is an early 72. The codes on the OT and both chokes is DGJ1 (Dec 71) the code on the PT is DGL0 (Oct 70). I never realised Marsland made the iron for Garnet - though it was Hammond.


I think that he started with Hammond and then switched completely to Marsland and back again to Hammond later on when Marsland were no longer there...

You must have one of the very first ones made since even on the Garnet site it states that production for the Session Man Reverb Vocal started in 73. A prototype maybe ?

Can you post pics as you go ? I love these restore threads ...


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Thar will be pics.

I meant to check the prod numbers; the iron could be older stock. I'll see what the pots say, but if official launch was 73 I doubt it's quite as early as 71. It's def early in the run tho, my other one did not have 2 chokes or mustard caps on the inputs... or the thru bolts. Also, not as much goop (looks like it was used to reinforce/strain relief vs insulate). It's also MUCH neater inside than any of my other Garnets - especially my rebel head; that thing is a mess.

Wondering if I should try any input mods.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

I scrubbed the tolex a few more times,and reglued some bits (put a few nails in here before to reinforce the cab; the box is more solid than I first thought, which is a bit of a relief).











Started looking at the power input section to see what’s there and how to convert to 3 prong cord. Removed the death cap and 2 prong (left some slack, the B&W wires) - no sense doing extra work. Roughed in the IEC jack (corner and screw holes - didn’t want to bust out the dremel - just cleaned the basement and don’t wanna get steel dust everywhere and it was too late to take it outside). Looks like I can just connect those existing B&W wires to the IEC jack, bypass (remove) the ground polarity switch and connect IEC ground to the spot where the death cap was (solder lug on one of the PT bolts).










Lastly, got some chrome paint and did the reverb tank and handle anchors; BLING! Decided to not paint the corner protectors; they’re just gonna get scuffed and will look horrible (I an always change my mind later). I will put the worst 2 corners on the bottom rear, the rest aren’t as bad. Will add 2 new corners on the top rear (currently none; can’t put any on top front due to the angled bit there).










been thinking about the whole date code discussion because this amp seems to be a very interesting specimen. Noticed a few more interesting things:

- Uncharacteristically (for this era at least) mil-spec (near Hiwatt level neatness) wiring (as previously mentioned)
- There’s 2 chokes in there (I only remember 1 in my old one, but it’s been a while)
- RE the early date codes on the iron: it is possible that the iron is old stock but that seems a bit too old (3-4 years); Gar was cranking amps out at this point with a ‘factory’ assembly line vs just him like in the early days, and the same iron would have been used in the guitar version of the Sessionman (released in 72) as as well as the Pro models (as early as 66).
- There’s nicer parts in here than the other Garnets I've been inside of, e.g. mustard filter caps on the inputs; and an aquarium full of tropical fish.
- There appear to be bleed resistors on the large filter cap cans - never seen that on any other Garnet and they’re not on the schem (it would make sense if this was a prototype and Gar was going in there to tinker a lot before finalizing the circuit). Can anyone confirm if early-mid 70s Sessionmen/Pros/BTOs routinely had these? 
- The faceplates are overlays (normal), and from the inside you can see that there are unused holes. This could have originally been a guitar Sessionman chassis (released 2 years earlier), with the PA faceplate added later. Then again it also makes sense that Gar would have them drilled out so that he could use them as either (only the Sessionmen used this size chassis AFAIK), as order numbers dictated, by merely adding the requisite faceplate. Again I don't recall this on my other Sessionman, but it's been a while.

Anyway, I am convinced this was built by Gar Gillies himself rather than one of his ‘factory’ workers. It’s a Garnet lover’s wet dream. I’m starting to think that the old pair of JJ E34Ls I have laying about and was gonna throw in here are not good enough, and I may have to shell out for some vintage Sylvania 6CA7s (which was what these would have been loaded with from the factory).


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

What are the date codes on the can caps ???


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

I didn't see any - will look again.


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Can caps have a 4 digit code to indentify maker and date

Mallory cans:

DEA4

DE = Mallory
A = Jan
4 = 1974

-------------------------------
Aerovox Cans:

AED5

AE =Aerovox
D =April
5 =1975

Info provided by Red Rock amps.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

No codes. The 4 cardboard ones are Sprague Canada ( can't find the Canadian code for them in my searching but no number of the requisite 4 digit format exists anyway) and the metal one in the middle is Sprague USA ( mfr code 303 is nowhere on the thing, tho the number 7117x,where X is unreadable, possibly a C or a 0, so maybe that confirms the 71 from the OT or 70 from the PT, but I doubt it... also 3787, which is not the right format; likely both proprietary Sprague codes). They are well labeled in plain English so maybe that's why no codes.


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

303 = Sprague

Sprague is the worst to date...

7117 could be 71, 17th week...


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Attached schem. shows bleeder resistors on some of the filter cans.
Is the second 'choke' maybe a transformer for reverb drive? Or just 2 wire type choke?


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Yep! Reverb delay transformer...


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

RBlakeney said:


> do a tom bridge with a p90 neck single middle and splittable humbucker in bridge.





Frenchy99 said:


> 303 = Sprague
> 
> Sprague is the worst to date...
> 
> 7117 could be 71, 17th week...


Yes - I know the US code, but couldn;t find the CA equivalent (moot cuz no code on them). From my googling, Sprague put wee/day first and year last so it'd be 7/11 (which is day vs month is unclear) 1970, assunming a) that is in fact a date code, and b. the unreadable character is a 0 (vs a C or something else entirely).

Anyway, another interesting thing: the S/N.

This guy is 10085. Checking out the registry on Garnetamps.com, the closest registered number is a Herzog (10067). There's also a Revolution I (10013) and II (10010). All 3 of those models debuted in 72 (no dates for these specific examples given in the registry). So I am a bit more confident about this whole thing. Pot codes will clinch it when I get there.



jb welder said:


> Attached schem. shows bleeder resistors on some of the filter cans.
> Is the second 'choke' maybe a transformer for reverb drive? Or just 2 wire type choke?


Interesting; I was looking at a G250PA schematic and those aren't there. Didn't see them on the odd few other schems I checked, but none of them were that particular one. Also my Sessionman has them on all the cans, not just the first few (2 dual cap cans, I assume) - I will check the value to see if it matches that schem (220K).

As for the second choke, I will have to check re # of wires (doi; shoulda thought of that), but I thought the transformer in the schem for the reverb was the one built into the tank itself. That said one of those chokes is pretty close to the reverb wiring around the 12Au7 so you're probably right.



Another weird thing about this amp is that the input channels, which each get half a 12AX7 as their own gain stage, are wired up weird - channels 1 and 4 share V1 (right behind the input jacks) and channels 2 and 3 share v2 which is way over on the middle of the chassis behind the gain knob for channel 2. I do recall trying out different tubes in V1 on my old Sessionman (Garneet Mukllard vs JJ ) and finding the same thing as regards which channels are on that tube, but my Rebel PA is wired in a more intuitive way IIRC - 1+2 and 3+4. V2 being halfway across the chassis from the input jacks may be a function of the chassis being dual use for both PA and Guitar versions of the head (guitar came first).


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

So it's got 4 leads so it's a tranny not a choke. Same pic as posted previously - the one close to the knobs on the bottom right ( the socket right next to it is where the 12AU7 reverb driver goes). The bigger one in the middle is the filter choke.


----------



## ga20t (Jul 22, 2010)

Popped the chassis out of my guitar model Session Man with fuzz to see what was under the hood. Thought you might find it interesting for comparison, or at least take solace in how neat yours is. Someone (multiple people?) have definitely been in this one.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Yeah, lookin pretty familiar in there. Is that the G250FTR ( fuzz trem and reverb w no master)? If so that is the model I am on the lookout for.

Assuming that is a bias pot that someone added in there; mid right.

Same date code on the choke; diff brand reverb tyranny and death cap.... which is still connected despite 3 prong conversion. What are people's thoughts on that? Been
reading opinions both ways.


----------



## ga20t (Jul 22, 2010)

Yep, fuzz/trem/reverb no master. I thought that looked like a death cap—orange, tied to ground switch and then grounded to chassis? Also looks like they gave mine a filter cap job (new caps left of centre, above where the multi can is mounted), but didn't touch the 4x large cardboard caps. Mine has also had the 3-prong tied in a knot and just epoxied in the hole in the chassis—that should saw through eventually... 

I need to have this one serviced, likely add an IEC as you have done, undo any non-original mess that's in there. This is the one with weak reverb, I know you or someone else mentioned that's the case with these, but I found a Youtube demo with a good bit more depth than mine seems to have.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

ga20t said:


> weak reverb


Like weak how? It is a 2 spring long tank so it won't be as complex as a 3 spring, but the delay time is longer. So you could have an anemic reverb (probably the driver) or you can make out that long delay but can't mix it in enough (probably the recovery). Have you tried changing out the 12AU7 ? That's the (2 stage) driver, the recovery is either 1 or both halves of one of the 12AX7s , I assume the one next to the U. The SM Vocal schem says both, the later MV SM guit says only 1; haven't been able to find an actual G250FTR schem, but your layout looks like mine. 

Now I do have an empty hole in the chassis where the ground polarity switch was. Wonder if it's worth putting a (fender style) dwell control or a Pro 200 Vocal Depth/Sibilance control. Dwell is gain control on the driver and depth/sibilance are post Intensity tone controls . Intensity being the same as the Reverb knob on a Sessionman (basically how much reverb is mixed in with the dry signal before the power section).


----------



## ga20t (Jul 22, 2010)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Like weak how? It is a 2 spring long tank so it won't be as complex as a 3 spring, but the delay time is longer. So you could have an anemic reverb (probably the driver) or you can make out that long delay but can't mix it in enough (probably the recovery). Have you tried changing out the 12AU7 ? That's the (2 stage) driver, the recovery is either 1 or both halves of one of the 12AX7s , I assume the one next to the U. The SM Vocal schem says both, the later MV SM guit says only 1; haven't been able to find an actual G250FTR schem, but your layout looks like mine.
> 
> Now I do have an empty hole in the chassis where the ground polarity switch was. Wonder if it's worth putting a (fender style) dwell control or a Pro 200 Vocal Depth/Sibilance control. Dwell is gain control on the driver and depth/sibilance are post Intensity tone controls . Intensity being the same as the Reverb knob on a Sessionman (basically how much reverb is mixed in with the dry signal before the power section).


Just can't mix it in enough. Sounds good, great even, but you have to strain to make it out. I'll try those two tubes first, V4 (12ax7) & V5 (12au7), and see if it makes a difference.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

If that's the case try swapping the X first. You probably have one laying about vs a U. If the reverb is there ( deep but quiet) it's not the driver.


----------



## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

aha...found the rust converter stuff

MAR-HYDE ONE STEP

Mar-Hyde® One-Step® Rust Converter | 3M United States

and links to where you can find it in Canada:

Thank you for contacting 3M Canada.

We are more than happy to refer you to the following distributors of the 3M
Automotive Aftermarket products:

UAP Napa
Carquest
Uni-Select
Sherwin-Williams


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Nice - thanks.

I think there's a NAPA affilated Auto parts store around the block from my house (I know it's there just don't recall specifically if NAPA) and a Sherwin-Williams by my kid's school.


----------



## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

welcome!!

I used it on a couple transformers, it works great

also since it turns the rust into a black material, it looks good on the outside of the plates ( which are usually black )

I just brushed all around the plates

ps make sure you use it in a well ventilated space, it's pretty unhealthy to breathe in the fumes, before it dries!!


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

How's the high, like is it an upper or a downer or just headache?

***** just kidding; don't abuse solvent kids, kills too many brain cells*****


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Mounted and wired in the IEC power jack. Ground reverse switch and death cap removed (a nive 47nF film cap - save that for something else) is gone. Out of green wire (in a big enough guage) so had to use blue; obvious enough.



















Powered on with all tubes pulled (the 2 original Garnet/Mullards that were left). To check voltages. Heaters are all 6.35V; AXes (no AU for the verb; it had an AX in that spot; we'll see what works better later) all had 450-500 on the plates and the 6CA7s had 550. Bias is at -47. Looks like I didn't mess anything up.

An interesting thing:










I loosened the fuse holder and the labeling goes all along the chassis rear. Kinda wanna pull the front faceplate to see what's there; I gotta unmount a few pots at least to check codes. Quite sure it'll be a Sessionman Guitar label scheme. I think my Rebel and my bud's Revolution III were just silkscreened chassis. Can't recall what my old Sessionman Vocal was - I only have pics of it assembled and it kinda looks as though the faceplate is glossy like the overlay on this one; it's a thin aluminum plate with a glossy plastic layer. I wonder what models/eras were direct on chassis vs overlay?

I guess the next step is to throw tubes in and see how it goes. Turns out I cleared out those EL34s I had (forgot I sold them). Vintage Sylvanias (or any 6CA7 really) are just too much money, so after some review checkin, I think I'll go with JJ 6CA7s vs EH (the other current prod option); worry that I'd find EL34s too lean and crunchy in this amp.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Just to nitpick a bit, with 3 prong, having fuse and switch on opposite sides of AC line is no longer acceptable. Neutral should go straight to transformer, fuse and switch (in series) should both be on hot side of AC line.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

I was wondering about that (I know that's the way it's done now but didn't know this was not acceptable; thought it was just convention). That is what I did on my scratch Herzog/Champ build. Didn't want to move things around any more than necessary - this is the way it was so left it that way. Not that much work to move it around so I'll do that.

I appreciate this sort of info; thanks.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

bolero said:


> aha...found the rust converter stuff
> 
> MAR-HYDE ONE STEP
> 
> ...


FYI to anyone interested in such a product. Probably not available in Canada anymore. Sherwin-Williams no longer gets it (only the automotive locations ever had it - they remember the product but disco'd in their system). NAPA only carries it in the States, and the other 2 places seem to be US only chains.

That said there is an identical product by Rust Check (probably made under license from 3M for Canadian market), but only available in rattle can (Mar Hyde came in both brush-on liquid and spray formats). NAPA has it for $20; but you can get it at Crappy Tire for 10.99 (currently on sale for 8.79). I would prefer the brush-on version, especially for this application, but whachagonnado.

Rust Check Rust Converter, Aerosol | Canadian Tire


edit: somehow missed it the first time:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/rust-check-rust-converter-bottle-236-ml-0477964p.html#srp


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

*#*(
So while desoldering the leads from the fuse holder to move things around to be up to code (as it were) the side tab broke off. I don't have one in the right size. Also the stock fuse holder is a rather nice one (aside from the flimsy side tab); don't think they make them like this no more either. I blame @jb welder .
B#(*

In other news, the tubes I need for this thing came in the mail the other day. I have all the AXes I need, so just got a matched pair of JJ 6CA7s and a NOS JAN Philips ECG 5814A which is a military 12AU7 equivalent. I have no issue with JJ preamp tubes tone wise, but they don't last; in such an undemanding application (reverb driver vs, say, input gain) I am hoping this JAN will just live forever. Worst case I can toss a JJ I have in there and use this one in my Sunn which still has a very old AU in there (not sure if original but probably about time; could be as much as 45 years old so I can expect that to go at any moment).


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Granny Gremlin said:


> So while desoldering the leads from the fuse holder to move things around to be up to code (as it were) the side tab broke off. I don't have one in the right size. Also the stock fuse holder is a rather nice one (aside from the flimsy side tab); don't think they make them like this no more either. I blame @jb welder .


lol, where you using one of these? 









Is that the screw in cap type? What do you mean about not making them like that anymore? I'll see what I have.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Ee gads, the last time I used one of those I cannabalised the element/trigger system to make a DIY vaporizer.

As I was getting the wire out of the side tab, the tip of it cracked off across where the hole its No big deal, can still solder to that, but then I tried to bend the tab up a bit to get in there to make a good connection and the whole thing came off. Was fatigued already. That's the major flaw with these things as anybody who has tried to put one in knows. And with all the solder/flux/dirt on there you can't tell if it's been worked back and forth too much already or not. I don't think Gar used a brand new one here.

Yes proper threaded screw cap (vs twist lock) with the end tab being on that sprung plunger (vs the spring being on the cap end). I actually found a similar one, but it looks like it's a slightly smaller diameter than the original hole (1/2" vs 5/8"). The flange should take care of it, or I can use a washer, or I can just put it in the vacant Ground Reverse switch hole right next to the fuse hole which is actually 1/2".

The one thing I don't understand is why this new one I am looking was made like this:










I mean, that just weakens an already weak part. The end tab is a brick shithouse by comparison. ... I mean, if they just moved that narrowing + indent a bit further out (to the right) then that would create a weak point where, if it breaks off, you could still solder to the remaining stump (in a pinch, if you can't get a new one right away) vs the original one which sheared off right where it meets the plastic body. ... though I guess it would also allow for reinforcement (drop a gob of solder there) if you see if fatiguing, again, to hold you over until it could be replaced. I think I just talked my way into getting it anyway.


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Granny Gremlin said:


> The end tab is a brick shithouse by comparison.


Well written description of the observation of the comparison!
(Whew...tough to say that fast)


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

and here I thought I was taking the lazy low brow way out.


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

jb welder said:


> lol, where you using one of these?



Ouff !!! Only to remove the welded caps to the chassis in Traynor amps !!!


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> The one thing I don't understand is why this new one I am looking was made like this:



Good point !


----------



## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Just to let you know. I just got these from Antique Electronics. The are the exact replacement for Garnets.


Same design flaws also... Its actually to wrap your wire on ...

Fuse Holder - for Fender®, 3AG-Type


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Yep, looks like same part (though could have swore the sirte I saw them on said threaded cap vs Twist lock as I cxan see in yer pic). Also NOT an exact replacement - even in yer link it says 1/2" hole vs 5/8" (close enuf as duiscussed above).


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Yes proper threaded screw cap (vs twist lock) with the end tab being on that sprung plunger (vs the spring being on the cap end). I actually found a similar one, but it looks like it's a slightly smaller diameter than the original hole (1/2" vs 5/8").


I checked and I don't have any. You should be able to get something like that twist cap but for 5/8" hole if you look around.

If you really want one with screw in cap for 5/8' hole, like the original, search for FHPM-31 fuse holder, or 82-2215 fuse holder.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

The fuse holder came in (after the package went on a NAmerican Tour that my bands are jealous of) so I redid all that.The new fuse holder isn't as good, and smaller, but it's fine. Treated the trannies and spots on the chassis with rust converter as well. Forgot to pic both of those.

I also removed the front face plate cuz I wanted to get at some rust that goes over the lip and under, and I wanted to look at pot codes anyway (tight ass build, you really need to remove them in groups of 4 - makes me not feel like quite as much of an idiot for cramping myself in on my Herzog build). The knobs were a bitch to get off - the set screws, 2 per, were mostly rusted in. Some Blaster oil and all but 2 screws on 2 separate knobs came out. One of the remaining ones had to be drilled out and the other I managed to get by enlarging the slot.

The switched pots have no date code (1MO LIN AO - unless it's Jan 70 there at the end, which is too early), but the reg pots are all (4): S-360 1MEG DJH1, Aug 71 so Dec 71 (off the OT, RT and choke) stands as newest date; probs a 72.

It really is a Sessionman guitar chassis under there BTW (overlay on the rear as well):


----------



## Larry Life (Apr 29, 2018)

Granny Gremlin said:


> The fuse holder came in (after the package went on a NAmerican Tour that my bands are jealous of) so I redid all that.The new fuse holder isn't as good, and smaller, but it's fine. Treated the trannies and spots on the chassis with rust converter as well. Forgot to pic both of those.
> 
> I also removed the front face plate cuz I wanted to get at some rust that goes over the lip and under, and I wanted to look at pot codes anyway (tight ass build, you really need to remove them in groups of 4 - makes me not feel like quite as much of an idiot for cramping myself in on my Herzog build). The knobs were a bitch to get off - the set screws, 2 per, were mostly rusted in. Some Blaster oil and all but 2 screws on 2 separate knobs came out. One of the remaining ones had to be drilled out and the other I managed to get by enlarging the slot.
> 
> ...


Interesting refurb. I've got a G250FTR Quad w/ Philips/Norelcos that I bought out of Regina several years ago. An absolutely lovely monster.


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Man, the FTR is what I really want, but I have only seen a single one in head form (not interested in the combo) and the guy is not selling.


----------

