# Combo of major and minor pentatonic.



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Before surgery I started to dive deep into this. Does anyone have any tips or tricks to aid in learning this quicker?

For example on a 12 bar blues you can use both over the 1 4 5 chords but I can’t wrap my head around it. Why? 

I am in the experimental stage. Just practicing with the major and minor thirds to get the different tonal qualities and how it sounds to my ear.

I am trying to do my blues improv more justice.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Also taking another shot at arpeggios and triads. So much to learn but I definitely see the advantages of learning this. I do know this to some extent but my knowledge doesn’t satisfy my curiosity. So I am on a quest.

I am trying to do my blues improv more justice.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Basically all I worry about is "do I want it to sound happy or sad?" and go major or minor third based on that.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

If you are playing major chords I usually play major pentatonic with a few minor pentatonic notes thrown in. 7th chords mix and match major and minor and any other notes you feel like. Minor and minor 7th chords I usually stick to minor pentatonic. It is the blues though so really just play whatever you want. Going from the I to the IV I like to do a chromatic run from the I down to the flat III (the dominant 7 of the IV chord). There are no rules in the blues. Play whatever sounds right to you.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

The minor pentatonic scale contains the root and dominant 7th from the 1, 4, and 5 chords. So if you're playing in G, using G7, C7, and D7 chords, the G minor pentatonic scale notes will be G F (from G7) C Bb (from C7) D C (from D7). C appears twice in the construction of the scale only because the chords overlap. So, the five (penta) notes are G Bb C D F.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I have noticed the minor for the 1, major for the 4, then back to the minor again for the 1. This is a BB King thing IIRC.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Kerry Brown said:


> If you are playing major chords I usually play major pentatonic with a few minor pentatonic notes thrown in. 7th chords mix and match major and minor and any other notes you feel like. Minor and minor 7th chords I usually stick to minor pentatonic. It is the blues though so really just play whatever you want. Going from the I to the IV I like to do a chromatic run from the I down to the flat III (the dominant 7 of the IV chord). There are no rules in the blues. Play whatever sounds right to you.


I get what your saying but I need concrete logic and to be the captain of my own ship.

What I mean is if I am playing minor keys in the 1 and then I want to play major I need to know how they relate to one another. They share some of the same notice.

I guess it’s the how’s and why’s of the theory behind this that I need to know because I possess the knowledge to be able to do so. The knowledge is priceless. 

This analogy explains what I am after.

if you want cake you can buy a mix and make it. (Easy peasy) but if you really want to make a cake and know what your doing then make it from scratch.


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## nbs2005 (Mar 21, 2018)

Watching this thread. We should talk more about this and less about gear we don't need to buy/sell (I'm guilty too)


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

In a nutshell, the difference is the b3 and b7 in the minor and the 3 and 7 in the major. So just the semi tone difference in those two notes. The rest are the same.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Hey Lola, it sounds like you're trying to solve the blue third mystery. If you listen to Bessie Smith sing or Louis Armstrong play the blues, you'll hear a note that's sharper than the minor third and flatter than the major third of the key.

It's very slidy and flexible. On some instruments, you can just play that note: guitar with bending or slide, voice, most wind instruments. Some instruments can't do that and you have to fake the note by playing both close together -- usually a quick minor ->major -- on piano, organ or some kinds of finger-picking guitar. If you get the timing right it sounds dandy; if you get the timing wrong it sounds corny. So sometimes you just play the major or minor and be damned with it.

You can also think of it as a dom 7th thing. If you play the 4 chord with its dom 7 (Eb for the F chord in the key of C) you're playing the minor third of the song but it sounds bluesy not minor. If you play that note in the 1 chord, it makes the song sound minor. If you play that note in the 5 chord it's an augmented fifth of the chord and that works in blues as well, but takes careful handling.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Doug Gifford said:


> Hey Lola, it sounds like you're trying to solve the blue third mystery. If you listen to Bessie Smith sing or Louis Armstrong play the blues, you'll hear a note that's sharper than the minor third and flatter than the major third of the key.


Microtonal notes. Or the notes between the notes. Very important in the blues especially when it comes to the 3rd. You bend the minor third part way to a major third and will sound ok in either major or minor pentatonic. Just don’t end a run on it.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I have no idea about anything you guys are talking about.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Adcandour said:


> I have no idea about anything you guys are talking about.


Remind me next run and I'll try to demonstrate.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Adcandour said:


> I have no idea about anything you guys are talking about.


This is pretty technical but scroll to the bottom to "Microtonality in rock music" for some examples.

Microtonal music - Wikipedia

Another example is Spoonfull by Howling Wolf, The Cream and many more covers. lots of bends that don't end up right on a note but somewhere in between. My favourite player that uses microtones a lot is Pete "Guitar" Lewis. He played on the original Hound Dog by Big Mama Thornton. Some say the song was based on a riff he was playing while Leiber and Stoller were writing the song. Here is a song with Pete Lewis that is pretty much micro tones all the way through.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

So what should I do to put all the notes from both scales together? I was thinking of making an acetate drawing of both scales and then laying one over top of each other. I will eventually remember everything but for now I have to see it to make sense of it.

Is there any other way of doing this and remembering everything? 

I really need to learn this because it will open up so many doors especially when improvising.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Maybe the overlay is a good idea. You’ll be able to see how everything overlaps but the two notes, the third and the seventh, which vary by a semi tone.

Rather than only looking at the penta tonic, look at the natural major and minor scales too. The penta (5) tonic (tone) is just a smaller 5 tone scale rather than 7.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Lola said:


> So what should I do to put all the notes from both scales together? I was thinking of making an acetate drawing of both scales and then laying one over top of each other. I will eventually remember everything but for now I have to see it to make sense of it.
> 
> Is there any other way of doing this and remembering everything?
> 
> I really need to learn this because it will open up so many doors especially when improvising.


More important than any scale is chord tones. If you start and end a phrase on a chord tone you can petty much play anything in between and get away with it. It usually sounds good if you stick to scales in between the chord tones but that is just a suggestion and shouldn't be followed all the time. If the song is playing an A major chord you need to know where every A, C#, and E are on the fret board. If it's A minor A, C, and E. If it's blues you also need to know where the flat 7 (G) is. In other words whatever chord you are playing you need to know where the 1, 3, 5, and flat 7 are. Try to start and end phrases on the 1, 5, and sometimes the flat 7. You can also end phrases with the 1, 5, flat 7 of the next chord and wait for the chord on that note. Hooking up those notes you can use scales. Note not all scales include the chord tones especially of the IV chord. The A major pentatonic scale does not include D the root of the IV. You need to figure a way to get to that note which may involve notes not in the scale e.g. going from A to D you might play A, C, C#, D. C is minor pentatonic. C# is major pentatonic. You can also use double stops when playing the chord tones. the 5 and the flat 7 together gives a nice blues tone. For the A chord that would be E and G. Chord tones are more important than scales. Scales are used to get you from one chord tone to the next.

Writing this out has really helped me to think about how I improvise. Thank you. I'm going to go try some of this out now.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Kerry thank you so much for your time in writing this. You have given me a lot of info to ponder. 

Great info. I am going to go through this tonight. Hopefully as this plays out things will make a lot more sense to me. 

Whoever said guitar was easy is out of their bleepin’ minds.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Lola said:


> Kerry thank you so much for your time in writing this. You have given me a lot of info to ponder.
> 
> Great info. I am going to go through this tonight. Hopefully as this plays out things will make a lot more sense to me.
> 
> Whoever said guitar was easy is out of their bleepin’ minds.


Kerry's right. Chord tones first, melody tones (or scale if you prefer) next.

Guitar is easy enough, it's playing music on it that's hard.

And go back to Kerry's post about "Spoonful" etc. Some good listening suggestions there. Consider listening to Howlin' Wolf *exclusively* for a day or so. Get into the groove and the sound and, yes, the notes. The Wolf is *so* rich in music and he had a great band who stayed with him for years. Get this stuff in your ears.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Adcandour said:


> I have no idea about anything you guys are talking about.


What they are talking about is bending the minor 3rd in the blues scale to approach the 3rd. In the key of E, the 3rd is the 4th fret on the low note E string (top fattest string). When you flatten the 3rd, (G#) the note is G. This is called the minor 3rd. 

So if you are at the 12th fret and playing in the key of E, the G string at the 12th fret is the minor 3rd. When you play that G string at the 12th fret just stretch it up a bit, and you can go all the way up to the G# or the 13th fret. This note at the 13th fret is the one that you would fret if you were playing the E barre chord. The first finger is laying across all the strings at the 12th fret, and the 2nd finger is fretting the G#. So in the picture here, it is stretching the G string that the 1st finger is fretting to approach the fret the 2nd finger is fretting.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I’d like to thank @Lola for starting this thread. Thinking and writing about this topic has reinvigorated my playing. Like I’m sure many of us have experienced I was in a rut playing the same old licks when I soloed. It was to the point where I didn’t even want to take a solo. I used to spend hours working out solos and just noodling to jam tracks. This afternoon I spent a couple of hours playing to slow blues jam tracks really thinking about what I was doing. I purposely stayed away from the licks I already know and concentrated on chord tones. It felt great. I think it sounded great. Thank you @Lola.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Kerry Brown said:


> I’d like to thank @Lola for starting this thread. Thinking and writing about this topic has reinvigorated my playing. Like I’m sure many of us have experienced I was in a rut playing the same old licks when I soloed. It was to the point where I didn’t even want to take a solo. I used to spend hours working out solos and just noodling to jam tracks. This afternoon I spent a couple of hours playing to slow blues jam tracks really thinking about what I was doing. I purposely stayed away from the licks I already know and concentrated on chord tones. It felt great. I think it sounded great. Thank you @Lola.


No, thank you Kerry! Learning new stuff on guitar is so exciting. I never tire of learning.

so, just to reiterate I should find whatever chord tones are in the chord all over the neck and go from there.

Could I also use major and minor barre chords to navigate my way through this? Just a thought.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Lola said:


> No, thank you Kerry! Learning new stuff on guitar is so exciting. I never tire of learning.
> 
> so, just to reiterate I should find whatever chord tones are in the chord all over the neck and go from there.
> 
> Could I also use major and minor barre chords to navigate my way through this? Just a thought.


Yes, that is a good place to start. Finding where the one and the five are in each chord shape will definitely help. Those are the notes you that you will usually start and end a phrase with. The three is more used as a passing tone and with double stops and arpeggios.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

But the 3 is HUGE in terms of establishing the major or minor sound.


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

JBFairthorne said:


> But the 3 is HUGE in terms of establishing the major or minor sound.


The root and fifth are filler, it's the third and seventh that give interest and context to the chord changes.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Paul M said:


> The root and fifth are filler, it's the third and seventh that give interest and context to the chord changes.


Why the 7 th?


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I agree thirds are very important. I sometimes slide into a minor third or hammer on from minor to major third to start a phrase but I’d never end on a third. It just sounds weird to me.


Lola said:


> Why the 7 th?


The seventh gives the blues its sound. Without the seventh it is too pretty. It just doesn't sound right. Try strumming a twelve bar with all major chords then try again with all dominant seven chords. You will hear the difference immediately.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Kerry Brown said:


> I agree thirds are very important. I sometimes slide into a minor third or hammer on from minor to major third to start a phrase but I’d never end on a third. It just sounds weird to me.
> 
> The seventh gives the blues its sound. Without the seventh it is too pretty. It just doesn't sound right. Try strumming a twelve bar with all major chords then try again with all dominant seven chords. You will hear the difference immediately.


That's a flat 7th right?

Here are some dominant 7th chords.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Major 7th chords:


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Diminished 7th chords:


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Yes the dominant 7 is the flat seventh added to a major chord. Major seventh isn't used much in blues but sometimes it can make things jazzy. Listen to Stormy Monday by the Allman brothers. They play a Gmaj7 before they do the minor walkup. Diminished sevens are neat chords. Any note in the chord can be the root. They add a lot of tension. It can sound cool to play a dim7 one step below the chord you are leading into. For instance if you are playing in the key of C going from C7 to F7 On the last beat or two of the bar before the F7 play an Edim7 (E is one step or one fret below F). You can also play one step up from the chord you just played.

e.g. | C7 C7 Edim7 Edim7 | F7 F7 F7 F7 | or | C7 C7 C7 C7 | C#dim7 C#dim7 Edim7 Edim7 | F7 F7 F7 F7 |

Then you get into sixth and ninth chords. The blues is all about adding tension and releasing it. It can get crazy trying to figure out all this. I mostly just stick to seventh chords trying to weave into the space between the bass and drums. In a blues jam there is always room for a good rhythm player or even two. Lead players don't get to play a lot because everyone wants to play lead. Many lead players don't practice rhythm so when they are not playing lead they don't know what to do. I spend more time practicing rhythm to jam tracks than lead.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I will delve into this today. A lot of thinking on my part. This week has been a shit show with my migraines.

I am sure I will have more questions so I can put the puzzle pieces together.

Last night I was able to play and I just played all the stuff I wanted to and practiced some new material.

but.....this is my first priority and I will be practicing this today and doing more research into this.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Kerry you have been instrumental in helping me to expand my horizons as well as Player 99. Thx both of you! 

I shall return.


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Lola said:


> Why the 7 th?


In simple terms, (and there are exceptions), the 3rd gives you the quality of the chord, major/minor. The 7th in conjunction with the third gives you the stability of the chord. A G7 chord is the dominant, (V chord), in the key of C. The 3rd and 7th, B and F, form a tri-tone, which is unstable. The chord wants to resolve. The B up to a C, and the F to an E. That's the Root and 3rd of a C chord. The B and F can also resolve to Bb and Gb, the root and third of a Gb chord. 

Try playing a G7 to C6. It sounds like it finishes...it resolves. 

Now play a Db7 to C6. It resolves just as nicely. That's because G7 and Db7 share the same tritone.

When I arrange horn parts, I work with the 3rd and 7th first, and fill it out as needed with othe chord tones. I usually leave out the root notes in horn parts. Those notes get played by the piano and bass player. 

When I played in jazz groups, most of my guitar comping was 2 or three note voicings, most of the time using the 3rd, the 7th, and one other note that works in the context of the rest of the arrangement. With 17 musicians in a full big band, there is no need for 6 string power chords.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Last night was the best night of this Pandemic. I played from 5:30 until 12:20am. I had to stop the fingers were getting a bit raw. Anyhow I managed to incorporate the major and minor together just using the 3 rds. I tried doing this all over the neck in the key of E and A and it sounded pretty good. I just sat there and used the knowledge that Kerry imparted on me yesterday. I think my mind made it into a bigger deal then was necessary. Today I am investigating the 7th chords. I have to do this in small chunks or I know I will get overwhelmed.

I practiced the above for about 45 minutes then I just had to play David Wilcox, Hypnotizing Boogie, Laying Pipe and from there it was a free for all. Just an awesome night! Had so much fun learning and playing.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

Your beloved ACDC is a great place to start. With Malcolm playing 5 chords, Angus's solos and/or the bass lines defining the feel of a passage. 

I spent a lot of time listening to Dickie Betts, BB King, Eric Clapton, and Peter Green when I was trying to break out of strictly minor licks in my blues-rock.

I've found the bigger challenge for me, was breaking from 100% major on country stuff and learning to mix the minor in over major chords. Don Rich and Brad Paisley were where I started with that.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Paul M said:


> When I played in jazz groups, most of my guitar comping was 2 or three note voicings, most of the time using the 3rd, the 7th, and one other note that works in the context of the rest of the arrangement. With 17 musicians in a full big band, there is no need for 6 string power chords.


It took me many years to figure this out. All that time spent learning barre chords I was going to play them damn it. Many years ago I started showing up at a local blues jam. There were only a few people there so you could play all night if you wanted. After the first set the guy that ran it came over to me and told me to turn down a bit and I didn't need to play full chords all the time. He was a bit of a cranky old bastard but he was a really good player so I took his advice and started just strumming a few strings while playing barre chords. It sounded way better. After a few weeks he invited me over to his house and showed me all sorts of 2, 3 , and 4 note voicings. He was a cranky old bastard but he taught me a lot about the blues.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

You got the "Cranky Old Bastard Blues".


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Kerry Brown said:


> It took me many years to figure this out. All that time spent learning barre chords I was going to play them damn it. Many years ago I started showing up at a local blues jam. There were only a few people there so you could play all night if you wanted. After the first set the guy that ran it came over to me and told me to turn down a bit and I didn't need to play full chords all the time. He was a bit of a cranky old bastard but he was a really good player so I took his advice and started just strumming a few strings while playing barre chords. It sounded way better. After a few weeks he invited me over to his house and showed me all sorts of 2, 3 , and 4 note voicings. He was a cranky old bastard but he taught me a lot about the blues.


One of the best guitar lessons I ever had focused on learning any V7 chord with any note on top, which may be a chord tone, or an available upper extension. Or the opposite idea. Play at the 7th fret, (for example), play any and all V7 chords with a B natural on top.

The other trick I tried to maintain was to play voicings where the high note followed the melody. Not chord-melody playing like Joe Pass, (because who, besides Joe, can play like that), but simple comping that follows the flow of the melody. 

Both of the above tricks work best with 3 or 4 note voicings, often leaving out the root. Bass players and the piano players left hand need something to do.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I was thinking that when this COVID stuff is over I should get a looper pedal. This would help me I think. Not only to practice this pentatonic stuff with but learning more complicated licks. 

Can anybody recommend a half decent one. I don’t want to blow the budget on one because I am still in the midst of saving for my PRS S2. Everyday is a little closer.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I use


Lola said:


> I was thinking that when this COVID stuff is over I should get a looper pedal. This would help me I think. Not only to practice this pentatonic stuff with but learning more complicated licks.
> 
> Can anybody recommend a half decent one. I don’t want to blow the budget on one because I am still in the midst of saving for my PRS S2. Everyday is a little closer.


 I use a Boss RC-3 that I picked up used for $125.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I was just jamming last night and I discovered you can play both major and minor pentatonic over Sweet Home Alabama. I didn’t know this. It was fairly easy to be able jam over both. I am just having trouble remembering all the scale shapes and combining them. If anything, that’s what will slow my progress down. It’s a lot for me to remember. I have to engage in this daily.


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## Eric Reesor (Jan 26, 2020)

My favourite example of using two contrasting tonalities at the same time is this little ditty that is very Spanish in character. It is the second piece in this youtube vid after the Preambulo called Oliveras, by Federico Moreno Torroba. It uses snippets of bitonality very effectively. To most ears it is really jarring to hear the dissonance created by playing in two different keys at the same time. But in my ears it beautifully describes the dissonance of daily life in human interactions. Torroba was a Zarzuela composer and he also composed wonderfully for film scores. His music will stand the test of time because it is a snapshot of human emotions and can be incredibly evocative in the hands of good musicians.





The ability to hear in one key and play in another at the same time is a great gift. If you really listen to some of the music created by Miles Davis you hear this happen on the guitar spontaneously with players like John Mclaughlin, not for everyone I must admit: but to make even written music sound spontaneous and fresh I find it really helps not limiting my mind to conventional twelve tonality at times. Drives my wife nuts though and is a good way to keep the cats out of my music space when I am studying!


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Eric do you meaning transposing on the spot? I am not good at this but am improving. My best friend is my ear.


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## nbs2005 (Mar 21, 2018)

This is just a fantastic thread and a goldmine of information. Thank you all who have contributed!


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Page, Beck, Allmans, and Skynnard are all really great references G. A minor pent is relative to C major and F# minor is relative to A major. If you keep this in mind, and learn all 5 pentatonics positions of both A minor/C major pentatonic (same notes) and A Major/F# minor pentatonic (same notes), you'll be setup. I mentioned both relative minor/majors because I'd suggest you use the positions you are most familiar with and not sure where you tend when it comes to the Pentatonics. As for your earlier question about mixing the 2 into a hybrid, you might want to approach that concept a bit later once you have these down. But in a nutshell, Jeff Beck uses the Dominant Pentatonic a LOT in his playing which basically is the minor pentatonic with the raised 3rd.

Good luck. You know where to reach me.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Dorian2 said:


> Page, Beck, Allmans, and Skynnard are all really great references G. A minor pent is relative to C major and F# minor is relative to A major. If you keep this in mind, and learn all 5 pentatonics positions of both A minor/C major pentatonic (same notes) and A Major/F# minor pentatonic (same notes), you'll be setup. I mentioned both relative minor/majors because I'd suggest you use the positions you are most familiar with and not sure where you tend when it comes to the Pentatonics. As for your earlier question about mixing the 2 into a hybrid, you might want to approach that concept a bit later once you have these down. But in a nutshell, Jeff Beck uses the Dominant Pentatonic a LOT in his playing which basically is the minor pentatonic with the raised 3rd.
> 
> Good luck. You know where to reach me.


I was going to msg you Dorian but I am always asking you questions and I didn’t want to overstay my welcome for a lack of a better term. You sir, are such an amazing wealth of knowledge when it comes to theory. I wish I could keep you in my back pocket. Lol


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## Eric Reesor (Jan 26, 2020)

Lola said:


> Eric do you meaning transposing on the spot? I am not good at this but am improving. My best friend is my ear.


Partly. When reading it is fairly easy to play in the relative minor or major. Quite often I do it by mistake with pieces of music I have never heard before learning them from script. It is a wonderful exercise to both use your ears and mind to hear two things happening at the same time. Transposing to another key with the guitar is as easy as learning to read in any key with a capo on.
A bit of a cheat, granted but it can help train the ear quickly if it does not become a crutch. You have to get to the point of both reading and improvising on the guitar where position markers are no longer necessary in this regard a capo can help. Unless you have five fingers and a thumb on your left hand, which unfortunately I do not as yet. I have tried to grow one but my body has not as yet co-operated in this regard. Playing in some keys on the guitar is extremely tiring because of all the bar chord technique necessary. One piece that I am almost up playing on has modulations to D flat major and is very tiring because of the long duration bar chords called for but if you have a well built and setup classica it is indeed possible and magnificent.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Lola said:


> I was going to msg you Dorian but I am always asking you questions and I didn’t want to overstay my welcome for a lack of a better term. You sir, are such an amazing wealth of knowledge when it comes to theory. I wish I could keep you in my back pocket. Lol


I like helping you out if I can. No issue here with the PM's.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Dorian2 said:


> I like helping you out if I can. No issue here with the PM's.


Thank you so much. I really appreciate the fact that your so willing to share your wealth of knowledge with others. I will be pming you with more questions as I learn more.


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## Eric Reesor (Jan 26, 2020)

FYI Lola, the term in music for combining tonalities is "mixed modality" and bi-tonality is a concept which really stretches the potential of conventional harmony and without which, jazz, blues and indeed all music would stagnate and become staid. There are examples of the use of mixed modality to wake the listener going a very long way back in written music for the lute and guitar family of instruments.
This is one of them played on a period style guitar with double courses of gut or modern nylgut style strings so it sounds a little funky if you have never heard such a thing: but on the solo guitar this little piece really rocks to say the least. And is a great example of opening up the tonality by playing two different modalities at the same time. Like rubbing your head in one direction with one hand while moving the other arm and hand in a different direction or cartwheeling your thumbs in counter rotation.
All good examples of using your mind to do two or more separate things at once. Practising the skills required to play mixed modality and bi-tonal music on the guitar is perhaps the most difficult step in learning guitar. But if you understand the concepts and the goals first you can do it! A little every day and of something you have never done seen or heard before is the ticket to good improvisation and a little sight reading every day of something you have never heard before is equally as rewarding musically.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Eric Reesor said:


> FYI Lola, the term in music for combining tonalities is "mixed modality" and bi-tonality is a concept which really stretches the potential of conventional harmony and without which, jazz, blues and indeed all music would stagnate and become staid. There are examples of the use of mixed modality to wake the listener going a very long way back in written music for the lute and guitar family of instruments.
> This is one of them played on a period style guitar with double courses of gut or modern nylgut style strings so it sounds a little funky if you have never heard such a thing: but on the solo guitar this little piece really rocks to say the least. And is a great example of opening up the tonality by playing two different modalities at the same time. Like rubbing your head in one direction with one hand while moving the other arm and hand in a different direction or cartwheeling your thumbs in counter rotation.
> All good examples of using your mind to do two or more separate things at once. Practising the skills required to play mixed modality and bi-tonal music on the guitar is perhaps the most difficult step in learning guitar. But if you understand the concepts and the goals first you can do it! A little every day and of something you have never done seen or heard before is the ticket to good improvisation and a little sight reading every day of something you have never heard before is equally as rewarding musically.


I have found two really good website to help me with this. The two are Texas Alley Blues And Paul David’s Blues. They both contain so much info on everything. You just need to be very patient while learning this stuff. I just keep on repeating everything until it’s ingrained in my mind and fingertips.
Texas Alley blues site really opened my mind to tons of possibilities that you can play in regards to *using the major and the minor pentatonic combined and using double stops. Double stops in blues and slides are now my favourite little techniques to use now. *

The more I know the more I want to know. Like the chip thing. Lol

PS There is one other awesome site I forgot to mention and the name is Creative Guitar Studio with Andrew Wasson. An amazing teacher. He explains everything. He gives you all the pieces of the puzzle.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I have found a great video on arpeggios. Easy to understand.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I'd suggest separating the arpeggio's from the pentatonics at this point. If you're intent on combining the 2 techniques, separate them while practicing. Practice only what you're suppossed to for the given time frame you give yourself. Then begin to combine them slowly once you have both down. Try to focus on one thing at a time.


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## Distortion (Sep 16, 2015)

_its all about the phrasing. Call and respond if its blues for starters._


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Distortion said:


> _its all about the phrasing. Call and respond if its blues for starters._


Call and response certainly isn't mentioned enough when considering phrasing in the Blues. It was a key concept I learned in a music history course back in the day. And it's been applicable in the Blues since the beginning. That's one way the African slaves could communicate without being understood by Slavers. It also happens to be the way any good guitarist will communicate and listen to one another while jamming together or playing live.


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## Paul M (Mar 27, 2015)

Dorian2 said:


> Call and response certainly isn't mentioned enough when considering phrasing in the Blues. It was a key concept I learned in a music history course back in the day. And it's been applicable in the Blues since the beginning. That's one way the African slaves could communicate without being understood by Slavers. It also happens to be the way any good guitarist will communicate and listen to one another while jamming together or playing live.


Call and response is *everything* in music. If music is a language, (and I believe it is), and language is best used in conversation, (again.....I believe it is), then call-and-response is the embodiment of a musical conversation.

Nothing annoys me more than guitar player noodling endlessly under/over/beside a singer when they could be sharing the musical space, developing ideas together. 

I don't sing, but when working with a singer I think it is critically important for an instrumental soloist to know the lyrics. A great solo will not only retell the story of the lyrics, it will add details to the message: details that are not possible to share with words.

Ronnie Earl is one of my favorite guitarists that often works without a vocalist. He is able to tell a complete story without words.

Another guitar player that thrives in a space that I call "trapped in the pentatonic vortex" is Popa Chubby. He's worth a listen. 

Fianlly, T-Bone Walker's Strolling With Bones is a masterclass in economy. Great tour de force solo, all in one postion.


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## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

Paul M said:


> Ronnie Earl is one of my favorite guitarists that often works without a vocalist. He is able to tell a complete story without words.
> 
> Another guitar player that thrives in a space that I call "trapped in the pentatonic vortex" is Popa Chubby. He's worth a listen.
> 
> Fianlly, T-Bone Walker's Strolling With Bones is a masterclass in economy. Great tour de force solo, all in one postion.


Good examples! Loved Earl's rapport with his organist.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Distortion said:


> _its all about the phrasing. Call and respond if its blues for starters._


I love “call and response”. It just adds a very unique and bluesy dynamic to what your playing. I think this is totally up to your ears to decide.


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