# epiphone sg vs gibby sg questions



## enforcer505 (Jan 25, 2008)

hey guys

i had purchased an epiphone sg last year and let me say great guitar for the price. but i have been looking at gibson sg's and got me thinking. i saw some faded gibbys for $600 used in a music store. my question is, is it worth buying the gibson and selling the epiphone? is there much difference in sound etc etc? i would love to try one but they sold all them before i had a chance. or is there a guitar for 575 better quality then the gibby sg? i no these are stupid questions, but i would love to upgrade to something better for distoration and sustain etc etc. thanks for the help!


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

http://www.guitarscanada.com/Board/showthread.php?t=12482
and 
http://www.guitarscanada.com/Board/showthread.php?t=12481


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## acdc54_caddy62 (Mar 12, 2007)

Well it all depends. You'll just have to go and try one and make the choice. I'm in the same predicament myself. I feel that the pickups arnt hot enough in my SG. But a simple pickup change will fix that. But I wouldn't mind having a Gibson though lol.

If I had to guess... the neck would maybe be diffrent and the pickups would be diffrent...asides from that...all the same I'd think.

Hope this helps
:food-smiley-004:


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I personally have never considered the Faded series to be much better than Epi except for the name on the headstock. I don't mean to offend Faded owners, it's just that's been my experience playing them. Nothing wrong with a nice Epi with a pickup upgrade. I understand Gibson lust lol, but I personally don't want a Faded series.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

I agree with TDU. The other day I saw a beautiful Epi elitist SG from a few years back... listed on the Toronto Craigslist. Bound neck, beautiful grain on the body, trans cherry. A classic guitar. I think it went for only $230 or thereabouts... and it appeared to be in excellent condition. Throw in some choice pickups and you're good to go.

Sure, if money was no object I'd spring for a Gibson SG standard - preferably an old one with some character. But there are some excellent Epiphones out there. And for my money, I'm not too keen on the faded series Gibsons... your mileage may vary, natch.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Well the other things is I think of SG's like Tele's. They are a simple, bare bones slab guitar design. It's one of those cases where I just don't see why the Epi would be that much 'worse'.

I think those faded brown Epi SG's are a beautiful guitar. Even nicer looking than Gibson's faded brown.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

i'd get a used SG studio or standard.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

> I think those faded brown Epi SG's are a beautiful guitar. Even nicer looking than Gibson's faded brown.


Yeah, I agree - nicer finish on the two worn Epis I've seen... the Gibson fadeds don't look so great to me.

Sure, both the Tele and SGs are slabs... but don't the SGs have a belly cut at least? I forget... I don't have one now to compare with - sold a black Epi SG last year and I've not replaced it with another one, though I'd love to. My Guild SG type has a belly cut. Looks cool but I'm really not all that sure how important it is in the long run. I mean, if it's a great guitar, if the neck has it going on, then I know I can play for a long time if I feel like it - whether it's an LP type, a Strat or a Tele or whatever.


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

Maxer said:


> I agree with TDU. The other day I saw a beautiful Epi elitist SG from a few years back... listed on the Toronto Craigslist. Bound neck, beautiful grain on the body, trans cherry. A classic guitar. *I think it went for only $230 or thereabouts...* and it appeared to be in excellent condition. Throw in some choice pickups and you're good to go.
> 
> Sure, if money was no object I'd spring for a Gibson SG standard - preferably an old one with some character. But there are some excellent Epiphones out there. And for my money, I'm not too keen on the faded series Gibsons... your mileage may vary, natch.


Wow! That's a deal. Before they were discontiued they had a street price of $900 and they regularily sell for $600+ on Ebay, I would have pounced on that.


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## guitarzan (Feb 22, 2006)

the epis usually are quite neck heavy. i bought an ebony G400 for my son and it is well made but ultra neck heavy. my former faded Sg was well balanced.
the biggest weak point i find in the faded or lower end Gibbys is the fetwork.
the epis weak point is the heavy neck and pickups.
but by no stretch are either models bad guitars. they just need a couple of extra details ironed out.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

just got a used MIJ Epi SG on Sunday, did a check of the serial and read it was made by Fujigen in 2006. 2 piece center joined body...the Elite SGs I saw in the same shop last year were 3 pieces. Though it`s only been a couple of days, I really like it so far...compares very nicely with my Edwards/Duncan SG custom in terms of quality. The MIJ Epis have the Gibson headstock and in my 2006 catalog they say the MIJs were lacquer finished. Only thing I don`t like is the binding on the neck, it`s so frickin white...thinking of taking up smoking to yellow it up a bit. :rockon2:


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

Didn't know Edwards made an SG type... will have to look into that.

Shame you find the binding so contrasty... won't it fade to a pale yellow/ivory over time?


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

sneakypete said:


> just got a used MIJ Epi SG on Sunday, did a check of the serial and read it was made by Fujigen in 2006. 2 piece center joined body...the Elite SGs I saw in the same shop last year were 3 pieces. Though it`s only been a couple of days, I really like it so far...compares very nicely with my Edwards/Duncan SG custom in terms of quality. The MIJ Epis have the Gibson headstock and in my 2006 catalog they say the MIJs were lacquer finished. Only thing I don`t like is the binding on the neck, it`s so frickin white...thinking of taking up smoking to yellow it up a bit. :rockon2:


LOL. Looks like I've convinced you to get one. Mine most certainly is lacquer. The smell was a bit overwhelming when I first go it. It's a great guitar, isn't it? So, how much did you pay for it?


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

sneakypete said:


> just got a used MIJ Epi SG on Sunday, did a check of the serial and read it was made by Fujigen in 2006. 2 piece center joined body...*the Elite SGs I saw in the same shop last year were 3 pieces*. Though it`s only been a couple of days, I really like it so far...compares very nicely with my Edwards/Duncan SG custom in terms of quality. The MIJ Epis have the Gibson headstock and in my 2006 catalog they say the MIJs were lacquer finished. Only thing I don`t like is the binding on the neck, it`s so frickin white...thinking of taking up smoking to yellow it up a bit. :rockon2:


They must have got the bum shipment. Mine is a single peice body. :smile: Is it Mahogony or Korina wood?


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

saw an Elitist SG on the Ishibashi U-Box last night that looks like it`s 2 pieces, so I guess it depends which day the guitar was made.
The binding probably will yellow with time, they usually do.
I love the guitar...p`ups sond pretty good to me, see no reason to swap a thing at this time. Mine smells of tobacco smoke...dang smokers. Got it for less than half of what new ones go for, shop staff told me all MIJ Epis are lacquer.

heres the Eddie...


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

biggreen said:


> They must have got the bum shipment. Mine is a single peice body. :smile: Is it Mahogony or Korina wood?


none were listed as Korina in catalogs.


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

sneakypete said:


> none were listed as Korina in catalogs.


They were made of Korina a few years back. 

From 2002 http://www.epiphone.com/reviews.asp?ProductID=24


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

biggreen said:


> They were made of Korina a few years back.
> 
> From 2002 http://www.epiphone.com/reviews.asp?ProductID=24


thats a Korean Epi, I was speaking of MIJ versions. And anyways, catalogs are not always accurate...a LOT of builders here make stuff thats not listed in catalogs. Can`t see the headstock in the pic of the SG in question but I assumed it was an Elite.


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

sneakypete said:


> thats a Korean Epi, I was speaking of MIJ versions. And anyways, catalogs are not always accurate...a LOT of builders here make stuff thats not listed in catalogs. Can`t see the headstock in the pic of the SG in question but I assumed it was an Elite.



That's not a catalog, its a review from guitar Player, but it is pretty old. Ya, mine is an Elite. So they made some of the regular G400s in japan recently then? Can you post a pic of it?, I am curious to see the woodgrain.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

I saw that it was a review... plus, it doesn`t look like any catalogs I have. The review you posted is dated 1999.
I believe the G400 is MIK...the MIJs are from the LQ series...lacquer series...and I`m referring to catalogs I get in Japan...almost every builder here makes shop orders and one offs that can`t be found in catalogs which doesn`t help in trying to pin down the older MIJs. Lots of bad info on the web but you know how it is...somebody writes something in a forum and next day it`s all over the web and is taken as fact. I plan on taking pics of the SG...and the 1980...according to the serial... 7okai Jazz Sound bass I got tonight. If it`s sunny tomorrow I`ll take pics then. The grain on my SG resembles the grain in the one pictured here...kinda light and dark streaks...the Elites really look a lot like the LQ MIJ Epi series...I bet they were made side by side, they even have the same MOP headstock inlays...the only difference...excluding p`ups... appears to be the Elite thing on the back of the headstock...and the Elite SGs I saw were faded versions...with a satin type finish.


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

sneakypete said:


> I saw that it was a review... plus, it doesn`t look like any catalogs I have. The review you posted is dated 1999.
> I believe the G400 is MIK...the MIJs are from the LQ series...lacquer series...and I`m referring to catalogs I get in Japan...almost every builder here makes shop orders and one offs that can`t be found in catalogs which doesn`t help in trying to pin down the older MIJs. Lots of bad info on the web but you know how it is...somebody writes something in a forum and next day it`s all over the web and is taken as fact. I plan on taking pics of the SG...and the 1980...according to the serial... 7okai Jazz Sound bass I got tonight. If it`s sunny tomorrow I`ll take pics then. The grain on my SG resembles the grain in the one pictured here...kinda light and dark streaks...*the Elites really look a lot like the LQ MIJ Epi series...I bet they were made side by side, they even have the same MOP headstock inlays...the only difference...excluding p`ups... appears to be the Elite thing on the back of the headstock...*and the Elite SGs I saw were faded versions...with a satin type finish.


How long did they make the LQ series for?
Besides pickups other diferences would be all of the hardware and electronics in the 61 Elitist are US Gibson and nickel plated. The nut is bone and not plastic. I'm not sure about the wood, but the elitists use African Mahogony and all other Epi SGs aren't specified.

I am curious though, does your MIJ also have a 61 slim taperd neck? which model is it? http://www.everythingsg.com/epiphone.htm


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

don`t know.
I did say they LOOK alike, didn`t say they were identical...also used the word appear...sorry if I insulted your guitar...unintentional. I would still bet they were made side by side...and Fujigen have an excellent reputation for building quality guitars...have a look at their web site. I`m happy with mine. 
these days in Japan if a maker does not specify Honduras mahogany then it`s generally African...everybody seems to be using it...and have been for some time. 
heres mine...I`m really happy with the SG though it is not my best MIJ by a country mile, it is comparable to the two Elite SGs I saw here last year despite the differences listed. For $350.oo I ain`t complaining. Don`t own a slim tapered neck SG so I can`t say.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

Interesting the site is called everything SG, it evidently is not because the LQs don`t seem to be there ...as I said, mine is MIJ and not shown . Again, many if not all builders here do shop order runs and customer one offs so it is not rare for models to appear that are not listed in canalogs be they on paper or on line. Why the link does not have the LQs is a mystery.


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## biggreen (Mar 23, 2008)

Who says you insulted my guitar? :smile: I am simply trying to learn about your guitar and what the differences actually are as I have never heard of any LQ series epis myself. Can you get this guitar in Canada or is it a special import?
Your right it does look nearly the same grain wise. Yours has very nice grain. Mine starts with an F in the serial number so they probably are from the same factory. You can tell if it has a slim taper neck just by looking. If it is noticably thinner front to back at the nut then it is near the joint, then it is a slim taper. that is the best feature on this guitar as far as I am concerned. Yours looks like it has the identical butt joint as mine I see so it probably does have the same neck. It seems that the non tapered neck joint are diferent from what I have seen.

For $350 you can't go wrong, you won't lose any money on that guitar if you resell it. I paid more than twice as much for mine with a case but I didn't buy it to resell it, that's for sure.

You can see a diference in the finish of the metal, but thats about it. I actually had to switch my stock bean grovers out for these nickel grover tulips reissues.


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

Hey sneakypete, I just noticed you're in Japan. Can you still pick up thsoe old 70s Tokais for ni/san-man? When Ileft Jp I had 6 of them, grabbed from all over -- think the most I paid was Y25,000 for a 78 Silver Star. Sold them all for a profit in the UK. Wishing I'd kept a few.

Sorry...didn't mean to hijack the thread.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

I have no idea whats available in Canada right now `cause I`m over here. The first time I see the LQ series in my catalogs is 2004-2005...maybe they made them when the Elites were introduced to compete with them, not sure. In my 1997 catalogs there were no MIJ Epis listed perhaps because they were still building Orvilles and Orvilles by Gibson at the time? There are SG-70`s listed in my 1999 catalog, shop staff had mine listed as an LQ, and in the 2004-2005 and 2005-2006 catalog there are only two models listed a custom and a Les Paul standard...but catalogs are not always accurate plus, there was only one catalog for both 2005 and 2006 so it is possible new models were introduced before the following catalog was printed, happens a lot here. Shop staff had the three Epis that were brought from Tokyo for the one day sale listed as LQs...a Les Paul gold top, a Les Paul jr. and the SG. The gold top was really nice but I can get used Edwards with Duncan p`ups for the same price thry wanted...anyhow I have some very nice MIJ Les Paul types so I passed...I had been waiting on a used Edwards SG for a while but none were showing up so when the Epi arrived I jumped on it.
As for older MIJs..the days of $250.oo early Tokais are long gone depending on where one lives...in the big cities, forget about it...but I`m in a smaller one and do find some unreal bargains...I think some shops still don`t know about the internet yet. Just got a really nice 1980 7okai jazz bass yesterday in a small town about 20 minutes away by train...I teach in a factory there once a week and stop into a used gear shop every time I go just to see and I`ve found great deals but luck playes a huge role.


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## devnulljp (Mar 18, 2008)

sneakypete said:


> ..the days of $250.oo early Tokais are long gone depending on where one lives...in the big cities, forget about it...but I`m in a smaller one and do find some unreal bargains...I think some shops still don`t know about the internet yet. Just got a really nice 1980 7okai jazz bass yesterday in a small town about 20 minutes away by train...I teach in a factory there once a week and stop into a used gear shop every time I go just to see and I`ve found great deals but luck playes a huge role.


Nice - I scored one of the fretless Tokai Jaco Jazz basses for about 30,000--it was a '80 I think. Great bass. Long gone though...
I used to rummage through all the guitar junk shops in Kyoto hoping for the Kohno at the bottom of a pile of Yamahas but unfortunately all I found were more Yamahas. Still, there used to be two great used/vintage stores in Kyoto--nothing like Ochanomizu but smaller and friendlier--and they really didn't value Japanese guitars at all. They were always happy to sell them to me. Dumb luck all of it. Enjoy!


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

well if you didn`t try any Yanaha Dynamics you may have come across that unfortunate...I now own 26 of the little gems...all solid wood, my oldest is from the mid 50s...I`ve been told by folks who run a web site dedicated to em here...seems so many are after the laminated Yamaha red labels these days without caring or knowing about the Dynamics...absolutely gorgeous...I`ll post a couple of pics...I have several top end Yamaha electrics too...big fan of the company...
Dumb luck is the exact term I used this week on another site when a member asked how to go about getting his hands on some great old MIJs...I go to the few used gear shops in town at least twice a week and it`s the right place right time thing.


heres a few Dynamics...




























heres the 7okai I got yesterday...


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

Do you ever see some second-hand Edwards E-LP-130 or some other of the higher grade current production Edwards? How much do they go for? How do they compare to the older ones?


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

"if you want a gibson, get a gibson. or spend the money on something else, and still wish you had a gibson."

food for thought, not slamming Edwards at all as i've never played/heard one


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

BTW, Pete, where do you find the space for all those guitars?


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

I`ve already started selling some of mine off on line over here.
As for getting a Gibson...some may be surprised to learn there are folks doing that type of guitar better than they do now. Not knocking Gibson, I own two now, and it is possible to get a good one but generally one has to play a bunch to find it, but players have many more options these days, especially in Japan...and they`ve been building outstanding guitars for some time.


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