# Hope no one bought a vw



## Beatles (Feb 7, 2006)

Talk about fraud! These guys even rigged the software so the emissions control only turned on when being tested. SOB's. 

http://business.financialpost.com/n...-want-payback-over-pollution-control-cheating


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

Beatles said:


> Talk about fraud! These guys even rigged the software so the emissions control only turned on when being tested. SOB's.
> 
> http://business.financialpost.com/n...-want-payback-over-pollution-control-cheating


As bad as you think that is, whats your opinion on GM with their faulty ignition switches that killed a bunch of folks..?
and...are you sure there are no other car manufactures with the same software ?

G.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Beatles said:


> Talk about fraud! These guys even rigged the software so the emissions control only turned on when being tested. SOB's.
> 
> http://business.financialpost.com/n...-want-payback-over-pollution-control-cheating


I see it as more of an ethical problem. not a reliability/safety issue.


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## Beatles (Feb 7, 2006)

GTmaker said:


> As bad as you think that is, whats your opinion on GM with their faulty ignition switches that killed a bunch of folks..?
> and...are you sure there are no other car manufactures with the same software ?
> 
> G.


Oh sorry If you take offence to my post GT. Sounds like you are being quite defensive. Seeing as you asked for my opinion, sooner or later all of us get screwed over by large coprporations. Its all about money.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Beatles said:


> Talk about fraud! These guys even rigged the software so the emissions control only turned on when being tested. SOB's.
> 
> http://business.financialpost.com/n...-want-payback-over-pollution-control-cheating


They were beating down the competition really. Their 2.0L diesel engine would have performed better, had more power, and gotten better mileage that any other diesel on the market (that did actually comply with emission regulations). Pretty clever.


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

Their CEO was to renew his two year contract this Friday. Let's see how long he lasts before they let him go. This is a major trust issue. It's one thing to make a mistake but this doesn't sound accidental. 

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Limited impact in north america..... but in Europe the 4 cylinder diesel engine market is huge. I'd say small diesels power 80% of vehicles on the road over there. It was a brilliant plan by VW.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

Not such a brilliant plan when the value of your company drops by 40% in two days, and you face fines of up to $18 Billion.


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)




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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

VW is one of very few brands I will decline if Hertz assigns one to me. The only other I can think of is the Fiat 500.

I'd say they're no more crooked than other makers. I just have serious safety concerns with the last three VWs I've rented.

Never again. No way.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Milkman said:


> I just have serious safety concerns with the last three VWs I've rented.
> 
> Never again. No way.


Could you elaborate on that? I was under the impression that VWs scored pretty well in terms of safety.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Lincoln said:


> Limited impact in north america..... but in Europe the 4 cylinder diesel engine market is huge. I'd say small diesels power 80% of vehicles on the road over there. It was a brilliant plan by VW.


If by "limited" you mean the 500,000 2.0 TDI's in the US alone...


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

gtrguy said:


> Could you elaborate on that? I was under the impression that VWs scored pretty well in terms of safety.



I covered it in another thread, but I have rented three VWs and all three had significant and potentially deadly hesitation when accelerating from a standing start.

For example, I had several incidents with them where I was waiting to access a busy and fast moving highway, saw a reasonable opportunity, put the pedal down and.....the car crept forward and .....nothing. I had to tramp the pedal several times and almost got clobbered.

This must be a transmission characteristic and I won't ever risk that again.

I don't expect a Passat or Jetta to accelerate like my Infiniti, but if I give a simple command I expect the car to follow it, not consider whether I really intended to move.

If it was once, ok, but it was three different VWs in three different cities. One was a Passat, one was a Jetta and I honestly can't remember the third, but it was probably a Jetta.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

I guess '65 bugs don't count. Never had a diesel anything and don't want one. Over the years the '65 went from being a car to a truck to a dune buggy to what it is now, a trike. It still runs tho no one is sure anymore of the milage on the motor.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

I'm driving my second diesel Touareg, fantastic vehicle, great mileage and power, ride, etc. Apparently the 3.0 litre motor wasn't tampered with, but I don't know all the ins and outs of this story. Just because I like my VW doesn't excuse the German [email protected]^&#%<(ers that did what they did-if you get my drift.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> I guess '65 bugs don't count. Never had a diesel anything and don't want one. Over the years the '65 went from being a car to a truck to a dune buggy to what it is now, a trike. It still runs tho no one is sure anymore of the milage on the motor.


Back then bugs could really jump. Those were great cars. They did have issues, but whenyou put the pedal down they responded right away.

I'm with you on the diesels too. In a truck, maybe, but never in a car. Same with propane. Want to make a good car sucked out? Convert it to propane.


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## limelight65 (Jun 2, 2014)

i had a 2008 Rabbit. not diesel but a very good car. never an issue and drove it to 190k in 5 years.

that being said, all these car companies have shit like this that is hidden . this is just the tip of the iceberg i'm sure. 

lets see who confesses next.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> Back then bugs could really jump. Those were great cars. They did have issues, but whenyou put the pedal down they responded right away.
> 
> I'm with you on the diesels too. In a truck, maybe, but never in a car. Same with propane. Want to make a good car sucked out? Convert it to propane.


They responded, maybe not fast.....but they responded. As a trike they respond even faster. Sometimes they fall over in a tight curve. That's what I like about old vehicles. No way can they hide crap like that.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Budda said:


> If by "limited" you mean the 500,000 2.0 TDI's in the US alone...


I read somewhere it affects 11 million vehicles world wide. That's a whole lot.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

I don't know about everyone else but I based my last two vehicle purchases on emissions testing. The VW diesel was high on list because they tested so well. I went with a Kia Soul because emissions wise and overall cost of operation it rated equal or better than the VW. I would have been very pissed if I had bought a VW. I'd be pursuing civic action. Funny thing is Kia lied about the mileage figures for the Soul. They were about to get caught so they came up with a compensation program for people that bought one. Based on mileage I get a rebate every year as long as I own the vehicle. Last year was $120. There was a class action suit which I opted out of in favour of the yearly program. The lawyers took most of the money from the suit. Owners got just over $100 total if they went with the suit. They're all crooked and will do whatever they think they can get away with. Time some of them went to jail. This seems to go right to the top with VW so the CEO should be prosecuted. Instead he'll resign and get a big fat retirement package.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

..........


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

This is causing major damage to VW is several ways.

This wasn't a concealment or a downplaying of a defect.

It was deliberate and premeditated deception, cheating to put it straight.

Between the fines, corrective action and damage to the stock value, it will be in the tens of billions of dollars.

Shame on them.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

I bet if they ever pay the fine it will be with VW stock.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I think what you will see now is a swing away from small displacement diesels and a lot more development on small displacement turbo-charged gasoline engines and hybrids/electrics.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> I bet if they ever pay the fine it will be with VW stock.



I wouldn't count on that. There will be large fines and the VW stock isn't worth as much as it was a few days ago.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

That would be an unexpected risk to anyone leasing a VW. So much for the residual.

I wonder how much the CEO knew, and I wonder who will be prosecuted. Who takes the fall personally, or will it only be a corporate thing?

Is there a trustworthy corporation anywhere anymore?

Peace, Mooh.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

The CEO is "stepping down", corporate talk for "running away".

He should be stepping into a jail cell, along with anyone else involved.

I've been sniffing around new vehicles.
I went on VWs site yesterday and it won't let you build and price a Tiguan.
I assume that it has one of those motors, or the whole site is pooched.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Not that I condone the actions but on the other hand, you could buy a diesel VW (maybe used) cheap now and it seems like the computer cheat bettered the fuel consumption rate. 

I still think they are real pricks for their actions and some folks ought to be heading to prison.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Can't get a Tiguan diesel here Jock. My wife has had a Tiguan for 4 years and loves it btw.



sulphur said:


> The CEO is "stepping down", corporate talk for "running away".
> 
> He should be stepping into a jail cell, along with anyone else involved.
> 
> ...


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Milkman said:


> I wouldn't count on that. There will be large fines and the VW stock isn't worth as much as it was a few days ago.


I wonder just where the fines will go.


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## GTmaker (Apr 24, 2006)

Hows this for the tip of the iceberg ...
I'm sure there are plenty more names to be added.

G.

http://www.carscoops.com/2015/09/diesel-bmw-mercedes-opel-psa-cars.html


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

on my last assignment, my boss was a car guy. he had a cobra, and he used to work for a guy picking up and delivering race cars around the us and canada. anyhow, he drove a vw. some little tiny wagon lookin thing. it was a deisel. he mentioned one time that he had a friend who was a vw tech. he claimed that some computer wizardry and minor mods had his car producing alot more power and better economy. when he bought some other car, the vw still ran like a sewing machine. but everything else was held together with duct tape and bailing wire. i don't remember the mileage, but i remember it being insanely high.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

If it was GM or another American company they'd just get a slap on the wrist and promise not to do it again... just like the puny $900M settlement GM paid for knowingly endangering (and killing) it's customers for 10 years while covering up defects with it's ignition system. Will be interesting to see how this plays out in comparison.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

gtrguy said:


> If it was GM or another American company they'd just get a slap on the wrist and promise not to do it again... just like the puny $900M settlement GM paid for knowingly endangering (and killing) it's customers for 10 years while covering up defects with it's ignition system. Will be interesting to see how this plays out in comparison.


I've heard about as much as a $15 billion fine, before any cost to rectify the vehicles, if possible.
Where that money goes and who gets it is another question.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

The fines are one element.

Consumer confidence and VW's reputation could take a generation to recover, if ever.

Mitsubishi has never recovered from the scandal of concealing defects in Japan years ago.

Having struggled with one or two cars to get them to pass the E-test, hearing that a car maker cheated, while bragging about their clean emmissions is pretty disgusting.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I'm trying to figure out if it was just stupidity, arrogance, or greed. I suspect all three though.



Milkman said:


> The fines are one element.
> 
> Consumer confidence and VW's reputation could take a generation to recover, if ever.
> 
> ...


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

davetcan said:


> I'm trying to figure out if it was just stupidity, arrogance, or greed. I suspect all three though.



Unfortunately as we have seen countless times, where there's an advantage to be gained, many are willing to put ethics on the back burner.

I regret that stupidity was probably not one of the roots of this mess. These guys were smart. Stupid people could not have devised such a complex scheme.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I meant stupid only in that they thought they could get away with it. Same with arrogance. 

Now that the genie is out of the bottle the EPA says they're going to start looking at all cars, apparently with Canada's help.

I'd be curious to know of what use was the whole "Drive Clean" initiative if all the emissions tests that were conducted failed to find something like this. What exactly were they testing for and against what standard?





Milkman said:


> Unfortunately as we have seen countless times, where there's an advantage to be gained, many are willing to put ethics on the back burner.
> 
> I regret that stupidity was probably not one of the roots of this mess. These guys were smart. Stupid people could not have devised such a complex scheme.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Milkman said:


> Unfortunately as we have seen countless times, where there's an advantage to be gained, many are willing to put ethics on the back burner.
> 
> I regret that stupidity was probably not one of the roots of this mess. These guys were smart. Stupid people could not have devised such a complex scheme.


 Two possible reasons I can see that the plan failed. Either a disgruntled former employee who was in on the programming blew the whistle on them OR the other engine manufactures bought VW's and dissected the cars and the software to see why/how the VW engine worked as well as it did when thiers didn't. Competitors would have discovered the hidden programming or did NOx testing while driving under actual conditions. But VW got away with it for quite a while.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/volkswagen-driver-shaming-now-thing-121412295.html

idiots.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Lincoln said:


> Two possible reasons I can see that the plan failed. Either a disgruntled former employee who was in on the programming blew the whistle on them OR the other engine manufactures bought VW's and dissected the cars and the software to see why/how the VW engine worked as well as it did when thiers didn't. Competitors would have discovered the hidden programming or did NOx testing while driving under actual conditions. But VW got away with it for quite a while.


I'm fairly sure the whole thing was brought about by a study conducted by a university in the USA. If competitors knew about it, don't you think the whistle would have been blown a long time ago?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Seeing that it seems to be no longer newsworthy around here and that the local VW dealership is still advertising the same as they always do, did this really hurt the sales of VW or just their pocket book for a little bit. I have yet to hear of places like California banning the affected vehicles until it can be proven that they meet spec.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Seeing that it seems to be no longer newsworthy around here and that the local VW dealership is still advertising the same as they always do, did this really hurt the sales of VW or just their pocket book for a little bit. I have yet to hear of places like California banning the affected vehicles until it can be proven that they meet spec.


It has only been a week. Patience.

This is far from over.

- - - Updated - - -



Budda said:


> I'm fairly sure the whole thing was brought about by a study conducted by a university in the USA. If competitors knew about it, don't you think the whistle would have been blown a long time ago?


Yes, it was a university in Kentucky I think.

Those guys derseve a hero biscuit.


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

All of the car companies cheat. Its what they do. Magically they are all meeting their CAFE and emissions requirements by doing nothing? That sounds reasonable............

http://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/vw-scandal-and-what-does-it-mean-ttip

http://www.transportenvironment.org...round-50-more-fuel-official-results-new-study


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> Seeing that it seems to be no longer newsworthy around here and that the local VW dealership is still advertising the same as they always do, did this really hurt the sales of VW or just their pocket book for a little bit. I have yet to hear of places like California banning the affected vehicles until it can be proven that they meet spec.


advertising is bought in advance. And I wouldn't expect them to stop advertising their cars. most dealerships are essentially owned franchises, the owners need to move their inventory, and VW is still open for business.
the media beats on a story for a good week or so to wring it out..after that, unless exciting new developments arise, they move on to something else.

As an Audi owner, I do wonder 1) whats going to happen when im due for emissions testing in the spring
2) how much this will impact resale value of these cars (i'll likely drive my car nearly into the ground anyways though).


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Here's a bit of a timeline from today's Automotive news with some key milestones in this debacle.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Budda said:


> I'm fairly sure the whole thing was brought about by a study conducted by a university in the USA. If competitors knew about it, don't you think the whistle would have been blown a long time ago?


Very true. Competitors would have joined the party, not called the cops 


I wonder how many of them did just that?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Lincoln said:


> Very true. Competitors would have joined the party, not called the cops
> 
> 
> I wonder how many of them did just that?


Maybe they just didn't figure it out.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I've been binging on Boardwalk Empire lately - I'm surprised that the problem wasn't solved by some well-placed millions in the right pockets ............


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Perfect example of why university research must remain independent! Fund them properly and keep private money out before all our universities are just doing [email protected] and advertizing for private industry. 

TG


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

traynor_garnet said:


> Perfect example of why university research must remain independent! Fund them properly and keep private money out before all our universities are just doing [email protected] and advertizing for private industry.
> 
> TG


Absolutely!


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