# Yup- Fulltone Is A Tool



## Guest (Apr 22, 2013)

http://www.fulltone.com/products/mini-dejavibe-3

[h=2]NEW MDV-3[/h] Real Estate is precious, especially on your pedalboard, but the lush organic sounds of a perfect "authentic vintage Univibe clone" are a necessity, and they are now attainable in a space now smaller than a standard wah wah pedal... the Mini-Deja'Vibe3, *MDV-3* for short. With a Hammertone Blue powder coated finish, White lettering, and a Blue LED that throbs to the beat of the pedal's hypnotic, asymmetrical rhythm. The MDV-3 has a new _heel or toe activated True-Bypass footswitch_ that is perfect for the person who rarely changes speeds and just wants to turn it on or off with his toe, but also perfect for the person who rides it like a Gas-pedal and wants to turn the pedal on/off with a simple flick of the heel (see the MDV-3 video at youtube.com/fulltoneeffects)
There are a LOT of pedals claiming to be "authentic vintage Univibe clones" on the market....all of the small ones are merely a glorified MXR phaser with a few changes. That's not a Univibe! So how is one to know which pedals are _real_ and which ones are just a cheap shortcut circuit that will satisfy you only until you get a chance to play pedal like the Fulltone MDV & MDV-3, both of which sport a "100% real vintage circuit."
*A real Univibe clone will have:*


4 x glass covered/hermetically-sealed photocells and an incandescent bulb on the circuit board. I go one step further...and NO ONE else does this, I took many real 1960's 'cells and had them cloned for not only dark/bright resistance, but also cloned the all-important rise and fall times of the cells as they react to the light turning on and off. Nobody else even knows about this, let alone bothers with it. They just buy whatever off-the-shelf photocells they can get, oblivious to these specs. Yes, even those forum-worshipped wait-list builders.
Run at 18+ volts, ours has a unique voltage doubler circuit inside so you can power it with any standard 9VDC adapter.
Totally discrete electronics, i.e. NO OPAMPS in the audio path! I go even further by only using New Old Stock (N.O.S) Panasonic Matsushita 2SC828 transistors for all stages, and the same metal-can 2SC539 transistor as original Univibes had for the preamp... this really makes a difference in the sound! You think those are cheap or easy to find?
 In typical Fulltone fashion, I also manufacture my own speed potentiometer... it's a dual pot with a gear on it like wah-wah pot, and with a special taper. (same as original Univibes) The only change made is I up'd the resistance to 200K to get you better slow speeds, and double screen the carbon composition track to last years beyond what the old ones lasted.
Look, a lot of you guys weren't around through the 90's and 2000's so it's up to me to educate you because God-knows these typists on the forums only care about how much their early-version gold-horsie KLON appreciated over the last fiscal quarter.
The waters have become somewhat murky, with builders trying to re-write history; many putting out utter-crap, charging a premium, creating wait-lists and out-and-out stealing people's money, and most spending big dough on shows and advertising to distract you from the facts and make you think they're boutique... sickening.
Now, it's worse, with some having crap Chinese companies like Joyo or Mooer make their pedals for $13 ea, importing them, marking them up to $250 (thanks Freekish & Eddie K****) or taking a simple MXR-type phaser circuit, changing a few values and calling it a "something-VIBE" and laughing all the way to the bank.
I've been building "authentic vintage Univibe clones" longer than anyone, since 1993. Mine are used by Robin Trower, Peter Frampton, Doyle Bramhall II, and countless others... by the people who know great sound and won't settle for less. The forum-experts are bored, truth-be-told. They need something to distract them from actually playing something musical, and they need something to brag about that they think you can't get... the "wait-list" pedal.
I make TOOLS for people who actually play... not for people who just type about playing.


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2013)

The custom enclosure on that thing is gorgeous and must cost a fortune to manufacture.

Sorry, OP, what were you trying to point out? He's got opinions about the stuff he makes? Who doesn't? You want to run your own business you've got to have a big head and a thick skin. Dark days and nights will need a ego to help you power through and keep on keeping on.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I can see that pedal getting spendy.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The public lashing he gives the cloners, while accurate, is more than a little "testy". Clearly the guy is fed up turning out pedals that are suddenly competing against cheap Chinese imitations of themselves.

And I hear him. Player99 was nice enough to give me a Joyo Ultimate Drive he had bought that was acting up and had ceased to maintain his interest. I won't say that I _fixed _it, because it still seems to act up (bad pot), but I made it more consistently useable. The pedal is known to be a clone of the OCD (which version I don't know). It's...okay...but I'm not in awe of it. Regardless of one's personal interaction with Mr. Fuller, should he be on the hook for what the cloners fail to provide in the way of build quality or reliability?

I saw some similar remarks from Zachary Vex a decade back, when he was building his reputation and counterfeit SHO pedals started showing up in Japan. He posted some pics of the insides of the clone, and of his build, and there was little comparison. He had quality parts, and the copy used cheap parts. But this thing was out there. Someone was making money on his reputation, and any complaints about the counterfeits were going to translate into rumours about his actual products.

People get angry about this stuff, and I honestly don't blame them.


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## NB_Terry (Feb 2, 2006)

mhammer said:


> The public lashing he gives the cloners, while accurate, is more than a little "testy".


Almost all of the Fulltone pedals are based on other people's pedals, so he's being quite hypocritical. 

For the most part, Zvex has original ideas and designs, rather than reworking the old Tube Screamer pedals, Vibes, Wahs, Chorus. tape echo, etc. like Fulltone does.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Not to take anything away from Zach because we've interacted a fair bit in past, and I like him, but he's only slightly more original than Mike is. On a 10-pt scale, Zach would be an 7.5 or 8, and MIke would be a 6-7. The ZVEX Mammoth? A modded Fuzzface. The Fuzz Factory? A modded Fuzzface. The Octane? A Superfuzz. The SHO? A Neve input preamp. Zach goes for more "out there" mods, and doesn't try to stick as close to the tried and true (e.g., his sequenced effects), but Fuller has done one and all a service by providing dependable, usable recreations of some classics. Many players just assume these things were always available, but it wasn't that long ago that if you wanted a Tonebender, or TS-808, or Uni-Vibe, or Foxx Tone Machine, you were gonna have to pay MUCH bigger bucks for it than a Fulltone was ever going to cost you. Times HAVE changed, and reasonably-priced versions of many of those things have appeared, but there was a big stretch where you had a choice between the originals...or Fulltone.

And those 3PDT stompswitches that everybody uses these days? Chalk that one up to Mike Fuller, who first arranged with a switch manufacturer to have them made for pedals, and kickstarted larger scale production of them. Badmouth him all you want, but just remember that if you use ANYTHING with a true-bypass switch and a status LED, be it a loop selector or effect, you OWE Mike Fuller.

Yes, MIke could use a little more self-restraint sometimes, when pushed too hard, and yes we all wish Fulltone stuff wasn't quite so expensive, and yes, some of us wish that getting it serviced was a little easier. BUt the reason his stuff sells is because not very many pros who use it ever NEED to have it serviced.

FWIW, I do not, nor have I ever, owned any of his products. They're a little too "normal" for me.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

mhammer said:


> Not to take anything away from Zach because we've interacted a fair bit in past, and I like him, but he's only slightly more original than Mike is. On a 10-pt scale, Zach would be an 7.5 or 8, and MIke would be a 6-7. The ZVEX Mammoth? A modded Fuzzface. The Fuzz Factory? A modded Fuzzface. The Octane? A Superfuzz. The SHO? A Neve input preamp. Zach goes for more "out there" mods, and doesn't try to stick as close to the tried and true (e.g., his sequenced effects), but Fuller has done one and all a service by providing dependable, usable recreations of some classics. *Many players just assume these things were always available, but it wasn't that long ago that if you wanted a Tonebender, or TS-808, or Uni-Vibe, or Foxx Tone Machine, you were gonna have to pay MUCH bigger bucks for it than a Fulltone was ever going to cost you.* Times HAVE changed, and reasonably-priced versions of many of those things have appeared, but there was a big stretch where you had a choice between the originals...or Fulltone.
> 
> And those 3PDT stompswitches that everybody uses these days? Chalk that one up to Mike Fuller, who first arranged with a switch manufacturer to have them made for pedals, and kickstarted larger scale production of them. Badmouth him all you want, but just remember that if you use ANYTHING with a true-bypass switch and a status LED, be it a loop selector or effect, you OWE Mike Fuller.
> 
> ...


Thanks for some of the back-story, Mark. I'm one of those who isn't old enough to realize this sort of thing, so the bolded statement was kind of a eureka moment for me. I guess there's always the first domino to fall, which doesn't seem to do too much, but the end result is pretty big.

I've owned and currently own a few different Fulltone products, and while I've never had to deal with their customer service, I like the products very much. And given how robustly they're put-together, I don't imagine I'll have to deal with them any time soon.


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## TheRumRunner (Sep 29, 2011)

I chuckled when I read this recent piece on the CBC...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2013/04/19/business-restaurant-customers-culture-war.html

Sometimes rude people do need a bitch slapping when it is well deserved. "The customer is always right" is a bunch of bull as there are too many people out to get a free ride. There is a multi page thread on another forum where so many vendors on ebay are throwing in the hat as it has become a nest of bad buyers getting their way.

Anyhow, I like Mike F's attitude, especially since his company looked after my request - pronto and for no $$$.

DW


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

hollowbody said:


> Thanks for some of the back-story, Mark. I'm one of those who isn't old enough to realize this sort of thing, so the bolded statement was kind of a eureka moment for me. I guess there's always the first domino to fall, which doesn't seem to do too much, but the end result is pretty big.
> 
> I've owned and currently own a few different Fulltone products, and while I've never had to deal with their customer service, I like the products very much. And given how robustly they're put-together, I don't imagine I'll have to deal with them any time soon.


Not all customers are fully aware of any particular vendor's history, or their business model. I've had to frequently remind folks that the vendor they are so incensed about not responding promptly to e-mails, or sending an order out quickly, is actually less organized than the website might convey, and that when you're a 1-man operation, catching a cold means that there is nobody to handle correspondance, nobody in shipping, nobody in customer service, and nobody in accounting. We can forget that stuff.

I think it can be the case that some vendors can overextend how much credit we ought to give them. Mr. Fuller has some limited rights to think in terms of "After all I've done for them (the customer base)", but those rights need to always be tempered by an awareness of the _lack_ of awareness on the part of customers, who may well not know what the vendor has gone through. That does not mean the customer has no obligations, but if you're trying to make a buck, you need to bite your lip and say "Yes, how may I help?" a little more often than maybe you feel like, and save the explosions for the truly aggregious.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I understand what you're saying about one man operations Mark, 
but you can't be suggesting that Fulltone is one of these?

That's what leads me to wonder why he can't just put someone in the position of handling the customer correspondence.
You know, someone with people skills.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Oh he's far from a one-man operation. I just mentioned one-man operations as an example of the gap that can often exist between customers' assumptions and expectations, and the reality of the business. Fancy web-sites can hide a lot. My buddy Steve Daniels, who owns Small Bear, is up front about how many people work there besides himself (6 or 7 at this point). How many people work at Mammoth Electronics, Pedal Parts, BYOC, or a bunch of other small operations? How many people fall under the banner of Devi Ever pedals, Earthquaker Devices, Mad Professor, Dr. Scientist, Lovepedal, Solid Gold FX, Diamond, or any of a host of pedal-makers we are familiar with? The websites may_ look _like "operators are standing by to take your calls", but really the "business" is two people whose soldering irons are never off, and have a web radio station running in the background, in the basement apartment or rented garage they call their workplace, looking up every now and then to ask "Did you need the scope?".

On the other hand, if Fuller himself answered customer correspondance, and the company bears his name, that should prompt a little bit more discretion and self-restraint, even when perhaps none is warranted.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

I'm torn, I love the pedals but not the attitude. I have owned a bunch of fulltone pedals over the years (FD 2, plimsoul, 69, OCD), and I have a Clyde Deluxe and a 70 fuzz that I plan on keeping forever (if such a thing exists in guitar gear). I have never once had a problem that has required any service, guess that's a good thing.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Last thread on this subject, I mentioned Dr Scientist.

That is a one man show, now that Tanya has stopped doing the labor intensive finishes.
She may still design the new finishes, but is far less involved, afaik.
Regardless, prompt replies to emails, consitently upbeat and friendly.

I've sent Ryan an email on a Saturday night and had a reply by Sunday afternoon.
You just have to be on top of things and on your game when running a business.

A business run positively, or negatively, either way, it affects the outcome.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Absolutely. Some of the one-man operations we may be familiar with MIGHT be the only revenue stream for that person, so they dedicate themselves to it full time. In other cases, it's a cottage industry they do on top of whatever their primary revenue stream is. Naturally, few, if any, of the websites for these folks will ever say "Please be patient when it comes to correspondance or shipping, because I have this day job (or thesis research, or severely handicapped child, etc.).


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

Another example of the opposite end of customer service. My recent Wattson FY-2 acquisition on Craigslist was missing the original knobs and Crybaby style (washer/screw) feet. The feet are actually smaller than a Crybaby so I was having trouble finding replacements.

I sent an email to Jim at Wattson Classic Electronics stating clearly I had purchased this pedal used and was looking to buy parts.

A week later I received the parts in the mail free of charge.

I know the postage probably cost more than the parts but I think that was pretty cool of him to take the time to send them to me.

These simple gestures are a great way to make loyal customers.


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I've had Fulltone in the past but now just own a nice custom made overdrive loosely based on a OCD. Anyways, that's just saying but really if we want to talk good service I have a couple of stories that come to mind. A few years ago I bought a used VMSD off of this Forum but no box or feet came so I asked Steve at Empress if I could buy some, he just asked for an address and within a week a box, feet and manual showed up. Thumbs up on that. Another one is Line 6, I bought a DL4 that someone sandblasted and attempted to mod with the popular Drasp upgrades but instead they messed it up internally and also lost the silver labels/nameplates. Line 6 sent some out free of charge, didn't even ask for shipping. A friend fixed some terrible soldering and I got it powder coated, voila!

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