# Trying my hand at building



## ShayM (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm trying to see if I can make a guitar. For now I'm just using spruce I bought from Rona because at this stage it's more about practising the techniques and identifying the tools I need. Building lumber is so cheap that I don't need to give a second thought to buying as much as I could want to use.

I'm also not going from start to finish in one go... again, because the wood is so cheap, I'm going to be doing each step repeatedly until I've reasonably gotten the hang of it. I've found that my skills improve faster if I don't keep moving on to something else meaning to come back eventually. So I may end up with lots of dubious blocks of wood, but that's ok.

Right now I'm just joining boards. I bought a block plane, and did a fairly poor job the first time. So I spent hours lapping it with sandpaper, sharpened the blade, and bought a square. Much better! And I can still use the first one to get the hang of other steps.

So far I have a drill press, dremel tool with lots of bits and the "multipurpose cutting kit", jig saw, block plane, square, lots of clamps, carpenter's glue, a sponge to apply the glue, quite a lot of automotive tools, (maybe I'll figure out a use for some of them?) and an air compressor. No doubt I will end up with a lot more as I go on, and it will probably cost a lot more than just buying a nice guitar, but that's not the point. I'm just having fun.

I know better than to use a drill press as a router, because it's not designed to handle side loading. I know better than to try an expect a dremel to do anything remotely big. Would it be practical to drill a bunch of holes straight down and use the dremel to clean up the edges? I'm sure a router would be nice to have but they are pretty expensive. I might pick one up eventually if I do this a lot, but not yet.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

You need a router most of all. Bite the bullet and get yourself a 1/2" collet (bit size) Makita plunger router or equivalent ... bigger the better. Make a decent router table ( good project itself). You will have it for years. You also need a 2" bit with a bearing on it. Most of what you would make as a guitar is 1 3/4" stock and the bearing needs to ride on a template. The rest of the tools you can fake or substitute. You can rough out a body with a jigsaw/sawzall/creative skillsawing but the router is the tool to takes it to the final size. 

Play with the spruce but it will be to wet to really get the feel of it. It will be fuzzy to sand, won't cut clean holes etc. Your in B.C ... get hold of some fir/western red cedar... that is dry ( 8% moisture) when you are ready. What would be great practice right now would be to experiment laying out scale different lengths etc. Take a blue print of the net and print it out. Lay it out (glue) on plywood and cut it out. It only takes a few minutes to cut out a body ... but it can take a few tries to get the template correct.


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## ShayM (Jan 3, 2011)

I guess I can pick one up but it's going to have to wait a while. Fortunately there's a lot I can practise and work on in the meantime before I need it. I don't have any kind of table, so I've been clamping my vise to a block of wood and setting that on other blocks of wood. How much space on the edges should I leave for the router when cutting out the rough shape?

How perfect do I need to make the edges for joining? The last one I did seems so close, but there's a gap in the middle third of one side which is about the width of one of the lines on my ruler. Maybe 0.1-0.2 mm? I don't want to obsess over getting rid of the tiniest gap if you'd never see it after the finish, or overlook one that will stand out. Either way it's better than the first one which was more like 1 mm.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

I've made a lot of cavities using a forester bit on the drill press and then doing the final smoothing/shaping with a very sharp
wood chisel. I don't mean hammer & chisel, just pushing on the chisel with your hands. Not as "picture perfect" as a router
but it works. It's amazing what a sharp chisel can do with a little patience.
Block plane.......that's a lost art these days. Biggest thing is to find something to hold your work piece solid, true and at a good height
for you. You can get one of those "workMate" style sawhorses pretty cheap with a built in vise/clamp. Might be a good investment for
you. 
Good Luck & have fun


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> You need a router most of all. Bite the bullet and get yourself a 1/2" collet (bit size) Makita plunger router or equivalent ... bigger the better. Make a decent router table ( good project itself). You will have it for years. You also need a 2" bit with a bearing on it. Most of what you would make as a guitar is 1 3/4" stock and the bearing needs to ride on a template. The rest of the tools you can fake or substitute. You can rough out a body with a jigsaw/sawzall/creative skillsawing but the router is the tool to takes it to the final size.
> 
> 
> Play with the spruce but it will be to wet to really get the feel of it. It will be fuzzy to sand, won't cut clean holes etc. Your in B.C ... get hold of some fir/western red cedar... that is dry ( 8% moisture) when you are ready. What would be great practice right now would be to experiment laying out scale different lengths etc. Take a blue print of the net and print it out. Lay it out (glue) on plywood and cut it out. It only takes a few minutes to cut out a body ... but it can take a few tries to get the template correct.


I would like to add my experience to this... in terms of a router, I think (with much woodworking experience and approx 8 routers from laminate trimmer through to 3 1/2 HP) the most useful router you can get is one of the 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 P routers with a fixed and plunge base. DeWalt and Porter cable make them. And get a router with both a 1/4" and 1/2" collet. This size of router is big enough for ANY guitar work, and can easily be used free hand even with one hand if you are experienced, but also in a router table.

Getting the largest router as your only one will limit what you can do as you will have a large, heavy and powerful beast and trying to do smaller jobs with it. Medium size with two bases is a great way to go...

JMO...

AJC


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

Lincoln said:


> I've made a lot of cavities using a forester bit on the drill press and then doing the final smoothing/shaping with a very sharp
> wood chisel. I don't mean hammer & chisel, just pushing on the chisel with your hands. Not as "picture perfect" as a router
> but it works. It's amazing what a sharp chisel can do with a little patience.
> Block plane.......that's a lost art these days. Biggest thing is to find something to hold your work piece solid, true and at a good height
> ...


The Forstner bit is a great way to hog out material... I use it a lot instead of the router. 

AJC


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

To be truthful you need a jointing plane that has about a 10 or 12" base to get perfect joints... sorry but perfect is the standard to aspire too. 

_How much space on the edges should I leave for the router when cutting out the rough shape?
_Ideally less than 1/8th. Don't forget you could rent or borrow a router.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

ajcoholic said:


> can easily be used free hand even with one hand if you are experienced, but also in a router table.
> 
> AJC


Careful giving that kind of advice out on the net AJ... WE COULD .. but you know how long it took us to get there. 

pr


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## ShayM (Jan 3, 2011)

ajcoholic said:


> Getting the largest router as your only one will limit what you can do as you will have a large, heavy and powerful beast and trying to do smaller jobs with it. Medium size with two bases is a great way to go...


That's a very helpful idea. I don't see myself going one-handed though. 



Lincoln said:


> I've made a lot of cavities using a forester bit on the drill press and then doing the final smoothing/shaping with a very sharp
> wood chisel. I don't mean hammer & chisel, just pushing on the chisel with your hands. Not as "picture perfect" as a router
> but it works. It's amazing what a sharp chisel can do with a little patience.


What size chisels and bits do you use for this?


Lincoln said:


> Block plane.......that's a lost art these days. Biggest thing is to find something to hold your work piece solid, true and at a good height
> for you. You can get one of those "workMate" style sawhorses pretty cheap with a built in vise/clamp. Might be a good investment for
> you.


Yes I think getting/making a stable work surface has to be a priority... I'm not going to be able to do any cutting on the floor either.



shoretyus said:


> To be truthful you need a jointing plane that has about a 10 or 12" base to get perfect joints... sorry but perfect is the standard to aspire too.


Another thing to pick up when I can. For now I don't think it can hurt to get better at using the one I have. I also used it on the faces of the boards. I'm sold on using planes now, so much easier and better results than sandpaper where you can use them. I imagine this is the wrong plane for this task too, though.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

ShayM...these fellows have built some very cool guitars. 
I have seen many pics of AJC's and shoretyus's guitars (not sure if I have seen any pics of Lincoln's guitars....hint, hint....Lincoln...any pics of your work?) and you are receiving suggestions from a folks with a huge experience base and a true passion for working with wood.

Good luck with your build. Please post some pics of your progress, etc. 

Cheers

Dave


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## ShayM (Jan 3, 2011)

The advice is very much appreciated. My camera isn't very good, but I'll try to post some pictures as I make more progress. For now, this is how the joint turned out:

ImageShack Album - 6 images

This is my second try putting together two 2x6 pieces (18" long) using my block plane and an unsecured vise on the floor. Obviously I'll select and match the wood better when I get more serious


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Having a joint that is slightly sprung is preferable. (sprung- a very slight gap in the center). If you are planing by hand, it might work out better if you do both edges at the same time. Clamp the boards face to face, or back to back, and do both edges, that way it you are off on being perfectly perpendicular, the difference is made up on the opposite board. (did I explain that OK? It's early in the A.M.). A block plane sucks for this type of work. If you are going to get into that type of work, you need a variety of planes. I got these for just over $100, they need some work, but all are good users. All were made before WWll.









Contrary to popular belief, many hand planes are used across the grain. From smallest to largest they are,a low angle block plane (good for end grain), a #3 (smoothing plane), #4 (smoother), a #5 (jack plane, most common, used across the grain a lot, also known as a fore plane), #6 jointer (for jointing edges, like you are doing), and #7 (bigger jointer). There is a wealth of info on the net dedicated to just planes and their uses.


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

Again I will chime in here... 

First - regarding single handed routing... any experienced woodworker knows there are many times or instances where you must hold the workpiece with one hand and guide the router with the other - DO NOT do it if you are not comfortable. A router can make a mess of both your work, and your fingers if you do something wrong. That being said, the smaller routers (laminate trimmers, and anything say 1 1/4 HP and under) can very nicely be held in one hand. NOT the bigger machines...

Secondly, a poorly set up jointer (that snipes on either the infed side or the outfed end, is worse than anything! The perfect wood to wood joint is, NO GAP. Anywhere... And, you can certainly, 100%, most definitely do any wood joinery with good sharp hand planes. How do you think wood was machined 100+ years ago? Of course it takes a lot of patience, experiecne and practice to get right. But you can join wood with a hand plane, no doubt about it.

A guitar can be built using no power tools at all. But it will take longer, and require more woodworking experience for sure. But it can be done, and has been countless times.

AJC


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

ajcoholic said:


> Again I will chime in here...
> 
> First - regarding single handed routing... any experienced woodworker knows there are many times or instances where you must hold the workpiece with one hand and guide the router with the other -
> 
> ...


Non skid mats like under those planes can be a god send..

Jointers ha ha ... I have a tiawan jobby.. it was fine when I bought it. A year later it drove me crazy... turns out that the outfeed table dished in the middle ... it took a whole year to diagnose the problem.. there is a two inch section that didn't dish


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

greco said:


> (not sure if I have seen any pics of Lincoln's guitars....hint, hint....Lincoln...any pics of your work?)
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


Pictures are out there, I've just been flying under the radar at bit.  Here's the last 2 I finished (about a week ago)








The left tele is Paduk with fender wide range pickups and a thinline pickguard, the right side is a seafoam green tele, swamp ash body, with a JSM strat pickup on the neck and a GFS rail on the bridge. The GSF stinks really bad btw......dead fish when compaired to a quality pickup on the same guitar. It's going away very soon.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

ShayM said:


> What size chisels and bits do you use for this?


The forstner bits I commonly use are what ever the smallest radius is I need to cut. It's 7/8" most of the time. I cut the corners first, then hog out the center material. You can over lap approx. 1/2 a bit. Any less and the bit will try to walk sideways on you. For chisels I use a 1" a lot, a 1/2" in tight spots or for very hard hardwood and a 1-1/4 for smoothing say the bottom of a large cavity. Work towards a 1/2 router though, that's the way to go. Specially for the outside of the body. You could even set up a router to do you jointing. A nice long 3/4" straight cut bit with guide bearings on both ends and away you go.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Lincoln said:


> Pictures are out there, I've just been flying under the radar at bit.  Here's the last 2 I finished (about a week ago)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The one on the left leaves me without words.

Peace, Mooh.


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## ShayM (Jan 3, 2011)

Lincoln said:


> Pictures are out there, I've just been flying under the radar at bit.  Here's the last 2 I finished (about a week ago)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The left one looks like a cousin of my strat copy  Mine has the same deep red stain, pickguard pattern, maple neck and rosewood (?) fretboard. Your work is very nice!


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Mooh said:


> The one on the left leaves me without words.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


Blasphamy ...Strat headstock... kidding....


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## ShayM (Jan 3, 2011)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Having a joint that is slightly sprung is preferable. (sprung- a very slight gap in the center). If you are planing by hand, it might work out better if you do both edges at the same time. Clamp the boards face to face, or back to back, and do both edges, that way it you are off on being perfectly perpendicular, the difference is made up on the opposite board. (did I explain that OK? It's early in the A.M.). A block plane sucks for this type of work. If you are going to get into that type of work, you need a variety of planes. I got these for just over $100, they need some work, but all are good users. All were made before WWll.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I buy a used plane (apparently much cheaper heh) is there anything I should specifically avoid? I have a feeling I'll have to spend a lot of time setting up any plane I buy, new or used, but if something about one makes it a huge waste of time I'd rather pass it by.

This is the one I've been using: 6 5/8-in. plane STANLEY - Rona.ca
Though mine is black where that one is blue, not that it really matters.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

There are better resources than me for hand planes. All mine are old Stanleys and Record. Look for good flat castings, lots of contact area between the blade and the frog, make sure everything works. Be careful, getting into hand planes can be addictive. Here is something for you to research:
Lots of hand tool knowledge here: How-To Guides: Hand Tools
Plane guide by one of the best woodworkers around, Chris Schwarz of Popular Woodworking: http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/content/binary/2-CoarseMediumFine.pdf
Record brand handplanes: Record Hand Tools
Stanley brand handplanes: The Stanley Bench Plane Page
More on Stanley Planes: The Superior Works - Patrick's Blood & Gore: Preface


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