# Finishing Questions - Rosewood Fretboard



## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

I'm going to be defretting my bass some time soon. I've chosen birch veneer to use as fret lines because I want them to be visible and I happen to like the colour contrast. That being said, I have some questions regarding finishing:

1) I want to maintain the natural look of the rosewood as it is now. From what I've read so far, an oil finish seems to be the way to go. The hardware store stocks lemon oil, tung oil, and danish oil. What are the differences between these types of oils and the pros and cons of using them? Should I be considering some other type of finish? 

2) Someone had suggested that light colour woods for fret lines can be susceptible to discolouration over time. Mostly grime buildup from playing. Is there any way of sealing the birch veneer to prevent this from happening? Will the oil finish do it?

Thanks in advance.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Oh now I see what your doing. I thought you were going right over top of the fretboard. 

You aren't going to be able to lacquer the birch like on a maple fretboard and keep the oil finish like the rosewood. The good news is that a light sanding of fretboard on the birch would clean up any grime at any time down the road. 

If doesn't work you can always put the frets back in. I suppose that you could glue the veneer in with crazy glue. That would seal the birch a bit too.


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> You aren't going to be able to lacquer the birch like on a maple fretboard and keep the oil finish like the rosewood. The good news is that a light sanding of fretboard on the birch would clean up any grime at any time down the road.
> 
> I suppose that you could glue the veneer in with crazy glue. That would seal the birch a bit too.


I think you may be on the right track. I was thinking that after the rough sanding I would very carefully go over top of the birch fret lines with some crazy glue to seal them. Then do the final sanding and oiling.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Glue the birch in with crazy glue. I am assume that it will take a couple of thickness of veneer to fill the slot. Use the thicker glue. You could get away with having the veneer sit higher. Then sand the whole board smooth. Oil. 

Play like there is no tomorrow.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Fajah...*this is such a cool concept*:bow:

Please post some pics when you have completed the project.

Hope all goes well with the "birching"

Cheers

Dave


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> Glue the birch in with crazy glue. I am assume that it will take a couple of thickness of veneer to fill the slot. Use the thicker glue. You could get away with having the veneer sit higher. Then sand the whole board smooth. Oil.
> 
> Play like there is no tomorrow.


Excellent advice. I'm going to use your method and let you know how it goes. Which oil do you think would work the best; Tung, Lemon, Danish?


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Fajah said:


> Excellent advice. I'm going to use your method and let you know how it goes. Which oil do you think would work the best; Tung, Lemon, Danish?


Pure lemon or orange oil. The others leave too much of a residue behind.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

I read somewhere that Jaco used a very light skim coat of epoxy glue on his fretboard. This gave him a very fast board.

I de-fretted an acoustic bass once. I used maple strips and did the skim coat of epoxy (an industrial type that was used in the marine industry). I liked!

Just a word of caution. Most rosewood (as opposed to ebony) is quite soft, and will mark and wear easily if you use round wound strings, from my experience.


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> Pure lemon or orange oil. The others leave too much of a residue behind.


Great, thanks. I can't wait to start the project.


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

ronmac said:


> I read somewhere that Jaco used a very light skim coat of epoxy glue on his fretboard. This gave him a very fast board.
> 
> I de-fretted an acoustic bass once. I used maple strips and did the skim coat of epoxy (an industrial type that was used in the marine industry). I liked!
> 
> Just a word of caution. Most rosewood (as opposed to ebony) is quite soft, and will mark and wear easily if you use round wound strings, from my experience.


I'm going to stay away from epoxy for the moment and just finish it with oil. As far as strings go, I didn't have any marks or wear issues using the R.Cocco nickel round wounds on my last fretless. For this project, I'll be putting on a set of tape wound La Bella's which are on order.

Thanks for the heads up though.


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

greco said:


> Fajah...*this is such a cool concept*:bow:
> 
> Please post some pics when you have completed the project.
> 
> ...


Hi Dave,

This is going to be a fun project for sure. I was actually planning to post some pics at each stage in the event that someone else wants to give it a go. I just got back form a jam session and this new bass plays really well and has great tone, but for jazz, there's nothing like a fretless.

I would have been content playing this bass fretted, but this Rob Allen I played at Club Bass which was a lined fretless with La Bella tape wounds really turned me on.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

ronmac said:


> I read somewhere that Jaco used a very light skim coat of epoxy glue on his fretboard. This gave him a very fast board.
> 
> I de-fretted an acoustic bass once. I used maple strips and did the skim coat of epoxy (an industrial type that was used in the marine industry). I liked!
> 
> Just a word of caution. Most rosewood (as opposed to ebony) is quite soft, and will mark and wear easily if you use round wound strings, from my experience.


Hmmm that would be really good. Hard sanding but would work. I did that to the spalted Tele that I finished to get it hard enough to sand. parts were way softer than others. Guys ( and women) cover boat parts with epoxy before they finish too.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

an oil finish option to consider is tru-oil
more durable and harder than the others, it actually hardens to a lacquer like surface that can be sanded, polished etc. crazy easy to work with- just wipe on, then wetsand.
i did a rosewood fretboard with it, and it sinks right in with the grain, almost like its not there.
easier to deal with than the epoxy type finish, but in my opinion, superior.
its made for finishing gunstocks, so its a sturdy finish.
should you want to try it, i can send you a bottle- 
i dont know any gun stores in your area- i go to the bass pro shop in vaughn mills every few months and ride the nascar simulator- they carry it, and ive got 2 unopened ones here
just another option- cool project. might try something similar with my bass :smile:


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

fraser said:


> i dont know any gun stores in your area- i go to the bass pro shop in vaughn mills every few months and ride the nascar simulator- they carry it, and ive got 2 unopened ones here
> just another option- cool project. might try something similar with my bass :smile:


Insert witty Toronto gun comment here :smile:


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

fraser said:


> an oil finish option to consider is tru-oil
> more durable and harder than the others, it actually hardens to a lacquer like surface that can be sanded, polished etc. crazy easy to work with- just wipe on, then wetsand.
> i did a rosewood fretboard with it, and it sinks right in with the grain, almost like its not there.
> easier to deal with than the epoxy type finish, but in my opinion, superior.
> ...


I've read about Tru-oil and lots of people use it successfully like yourself. However, I think that it will give me a higher gloss finish which is not what I'm looking for right now. I'm going to see how it looks and wears after using an oil like pure lemon or orange. If I don't like the look or the wear, I'll let you know. 

Appreciate the tip and the offer.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

When I switched from 4 to 5 string basses, I missed having a fretless so I did the conversion to a Godin Freeway 5 string a few years ago and I still use it.

Most of the advice in this thread is good but what I found much more convenient than the lines on the face of the fretboard are the tiny lines on the *side* of the fretboard created by the ends of the fret slot. I can't see the face of the board when I play, but the side of the board is clearly visible. To make these tiny lines more visible I added a dab of nail polish to them (colour of your choice). I haven't got around to removing the fret markers from the face of the fretboard, and they do look a little goofy on a fretless, but it's simply a matter of popping them out and filling the holes with similar wood.

Other changes were (1) a slightly greater radius to the fingerboard which was easy to do while I was planing the board after filling the slots anyway, (2) much deeper nut slots, (3) slightly "rolled" fingerboard edges to make it more comfortable, (4) very light oiling with which is now undetectable, so I don't know if I would repeat it unless it felt like it was drying out (besides, body oil seems to do the job adequately). 

Peace, Mooh.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

The side fret markers are a great idea, Mooh. On way to achieve this would be to use a maple filler strip, leave the edge natural colour and stain the front side the same colour as the fretboard.

One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier posts... It is important to use a hard wood, such as maple, when filling the slots. The frets contribute to making the neck stiff, and using a soft, or ill fitting, wood strip can lead to some troubles.

Good luck, and take lots of pictures!


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

Mooh said:


> Most of the advice in this thread is good but what I found much more convenient than the lines on the face of the fretboard are the tiny lines on the *side* of the fretboard created by the ends of the fret slot.


After the frets come out, I was planning to widen the ends if and where necessary so the the birch fret lines are exposed right to the ends. 



> Other changes were (1) a slightly greater radius to the fingerboard which was easy to do while I was planing the board after filling the slots anyway, (2) much deeper nut slots, (3) slightly "rolled" fingerboard edges to make it more comfortable, (4) very light oiling with which is now undetectable, so I don't know if I would repeat it unless it felt like it was drying out (besides, body oil seems to do the job adequately).
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


The radius on my bass is currently 13" which I'm going to maintain for now. It's an odd size so I have to make my own radius sanding block just to make sure that it's maintained.The nut's coming off anyway and it will be sanded down from the bottom for the proper height before reinstalling it. Rosewood is an oily wood to begin with so it certainly doesn't need much in the way of oiling unless one plans on changing the finish.

Glad you chimed in Mooh. The more contribute, the more anxious I am to start. I will say that my fellow jamming buddies love my bass the way it is and think I'm nuts for doing it. But what do they know.......they play guitar, sax, and drums.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Mooh said:


> I can't see the face of the board when I play, but the side of the board is clearly visible.


You not see the post on how to put lights on your fretboard ?:sport-smiley-002:


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

*Almost Done*



greco said:


> Fajah...*this is such a cool concept*:bow:
> 
> Please post some pics when you have completed the project.
> 
> ...


Other than strings and the final set-up, the job is done. I posted this link to a bunch of pics in the Low Down section as well. If anyone is interested in the details and my experience doing this, I can post it here for future reference.

http://picasaweb.google.ca/lawriemann/DeFrettingProject?authkey=vRWM5uMoWFc#


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

shoretyus said:


> You not see the post on how to put lights on your fretboard ?:sport-smiley-002:


Not sure what *you* mean, but *I* mean the face of the fingerboard faces away from me and is therefore not in the line of sight. 

Peace, Mooh.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Mooh said:


> Not sure what *you* mean, but *I* mean the face of the fingerboard faces away from me and is therefore not in the line of sight.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


Yeah I understand. The joke was that there was a thread about putting lights on your fingerboard. The humour is lost in translation though.


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