# Kijiji price rant



## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

Dont want to link to the original ad, but this one on Kijiji Ottawa gave me a chuckle - pleading for some common sense :rockon2:

I sometimes feel the same way when I see some of the asking prices on Kijiji etc:


*I can't for the life of me understand how people can buy a guitar for $500 and post it on KIJIJI 2 years later and expect $550 for it. Do people look in stores to see what something is actually selling for first? What about Ebay?? Why would anyone pay that price when they can buy a new one of the same item for a few bucks more? I love buying instruments (for personal use), but lately, People are becoming ridiculous with their pricing of things. Don't get me wrong. I'm not being cheap. I'm willing to pay thousands for the right peice, but not if it's only worth hundreds. If you buy a car (or anything else), it depreciates as soon as you buy it. I would love to sell my 1990 truck for exactly (or more) what I paid for it originally, but can anyone see that happening?? 
Come on guys, lets bring prices back to reality. *


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

You can always offer a lower reasonable price stating your reason for doing so. I've done that in the past and the seller recognized the reasonableness and sold it to me for my price. 

Some people don't take the time to research the current price, they simply have no idea what it's really worth or they expect people to offer a lower price so they start high, expecting to sell it for less. Then there ARE the ones with a few missing brain cells.:smile:


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2009)

I'm the first to admit the used scene in Ottawa is off it's nut but I don't complaining about it like that. Don't buy. Sooner or later sellers will take a hint and lower their prices.


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## krall (Apr 19, 2009)

Nutty prices on my local Kijiji too..Some were so bad I had to email them in case they were really ignorant of what they had..


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

there are so many lowballers and idiots that answer ads...even if you put the words "$$$...firm"..."cash only"..."no trades"...etc...

i've had my share of idiots show up...i published several pics of an sg junior...you know...a single pickup...some guy shows up and says..."oh it only has one pickup...i'll give you a third of your asking price because i'm looking for a two pickup model and i don't really want yours...but i'll buy it anyways"

say what...????...didn't he see the pics or the word "junior"...what a moron...he then continued to call and e-mail me for two weeks asking to buy the sg junior..

***some people put a slightly higher asking price because they know that they will get lowballed...they "agree" to a lower price to let the buyer fell like he got a deal...

***another reason for a slightly higher asking price is "supply and demand"...if something has become discontinued or has been out of production and is hard to get...the seller may ask for more...


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

jimihendrix said:


> there are so many lowballers and idiots that answer ads...even if you put the words "$$$...firm"..."cash only"..."no trades"...etc...
> 
> i've had my share of idiots show up...i published several pics of an sg junior...you know...a single pickup...some guy shows up and says..."oh it only has one pickup...i'll give you a third of your asking price because i'm looking for a two pickup model and i don't really want yours...but i'll buy it anyways"
> 
> ...


I would add one to this

***the economy sucks enough that people are trying to win the lottery with higher asking prices.


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## bscott (Mar 3, 2008)

I think people are hoping a guitar will be an investment that they can make money from.


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## puckhead (Sep 8, 2008)

Vancover kijij is absolute crap. All amp-covers, all the time (with the odd piano)

CL has the same nutbars as the rest of you guys.
apparently though (based on the prices), the economy is stronger than ever out here


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

In my experience, the folks asking for crazy-high prices on used gear are often newbies who are simply naive and honestly want to get the best buck for their instrument/amp/bongos/whatever.

Some of them can be mighty persistent, however... listing and relisting the same stuff at the same ludicrous prices. It takes a long time to wear this type down.

Too, many seem to believe that any old brand ought to fetch an insanely great resale value... whereas the reality on the ground simply doesn't bear that out. If you're selling used Fender or Gibson gear, you might get some interest. But most of the other names, no matter how good the individual specimen might be, just won't fetch the same values. Sometimes people have a hard time recognizing that, let alone accepting it.


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## Nohtanhoj (Jun 30, 2008)

Toronto Kijiji has some decent stuff. However, it's all in the suburbs... I live downtown and don't have a car. D=


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## Beach Bob (Sep 12, 2009)

All I know is that by adding the word "rare" to your description, you seem to be entitled to ask for 150-300% of market value


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

I love the use of Rare..2000 Black and white Strat, only sold in Canada.

Also saw a reissue LP selling as an original, the guy was claiming it was worth the same as the original because it had the documentation. I sent him an e-mail asking when it was built and he said 2004. $15,000 I don't think so.

I do think most people are preparing for the low ballers thats why price is starting a bit higher. If I like something I tell them that and give them an offer of what I want to pay, most understand.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

have to agree about the over-priced used gear thing. 
but i have to admit i see some of the same sort of pricing on various guitar and gear forums too. 

here's the reality check...you can verify this for yourself.
most shops that accept consignment of used gear (e.g. 12th Fret, Capsule, Spaceman, Kingston Guitarshop, Songbird, etc.) will usually list a used instrument at about 75% of the retail price. that is assuming the used instrument or gear is in very good or better condition. if its in rough condition they will price it downwards. then of course the consignment shop will take between 15-20% commission when the item is sold.
so if you do the math, that works to about 60% of the retail price (exclusive of taxes paid). you should not pay more than that for used gear, unless it happens to be something insanely rare.

as far as "rare" or "vintage" goes, there is very little out there that truely qualifies. yeah if you happen to have a 1950's Les Paul or Strat under the bed that might get you a premium price. but if you think your Flying V copy made in Zimbabwe in 1983 is going to fetch a king's ransom you are headed for disappointment.

currently, due to the depressed economy, the market is flooded with used gear. name just about any guitar or amp and you can probably find two for sale on the internet right now. with that in mind, prices are very negotiable.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

six-string said:


> have to agree about the over-priced used gear thing.
> *but i have to admit i see some of the same sort of pricing on various guitar and gear forums too.*
> 
> here's the reality check...you can verify this for yourself.
> ...


Ya seeing these prices on Craigslist and Kijiji where you have inexperienced buyers and sellers is one thing. I hate seeing these prices start to show up on the forums though. Especially the ones I consider 'home' lol. Any good forum has a rule to not comment on prices, which is fair etiquette. But, I don't like the affect it has on a forum classifieds when used prices aren't somehow kept 'realistic' either because you run the risk of the section becoming a joke like Kijiji/Craigslist can be.

I know all the arguments that people are free to charge what they want, and if people pay for it, they pay for it. But I just don't dig that attitude in what I consider a 'community' environment like this forum. Some items have a pretty clear resale value, and in those cases abuses should be pointed out in a polite, informative way. Just my opinion.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2009)

torndownunit said:


> I know all the arguments that people are free to charge what they want, and if people pay for it, they pay for it. But I just don't dig that attitude in what I consider a 'community' environment like this forum. Some items have a pretty clear resale value, and in those cases abuses should be pointed out in a polite, informative way. Just my opinion.


Zero interest in a FS thread speaks VOLUMES. No need to post a thing. That kind of post will only devolve, no likes to be told their wrong. Especially when it comes to used gear pricing which is less objective and more subjective.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

They are hoping for the PT Barnum factor - There's a sucker born every minute.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

iaresee said:


> Zero interest in a FS thread speaks VOLUMES. No need to post a thing. That kind of post will only devolve, *no likes to be told their wrong.* Especially when it comes to used gear pricing which is less objective and more subjective.


I don't mind at all. I research my gear prices, but it doesn't mean I know everything. I'd have no problem with someone letting me know if my price is out of line. Plus, if that's the reason an ad is getting no replies, I would like to know.

It obviously could never be done in a forum classifieds section or it would just lead to debate. I am only saying I '*wish*' that things could be that way.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2009)

torndownunit said:


> I don't mind at all. I research my gear prices, but it doesn't mean I know everything. I'd have no problem with someone letting me know if my price is out of line. Plus, if that's the reason an ad is getting no replies, I would like to know.
> 
> It obviously could never be done in a forum classifieds section or it would just lead to debate. I am only saying I '*wish*' that things could be that way.


Ha! My response was pretty funny given the context. I probably should have written: "who likes to be told their wrong?" instead.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Bevo said:


> I love the use of Rare..2000 Black and white Strat, only sold in Canada.


Ya mean you kin git de Black and White ones in de udder countrees too?:smile:

You made me laugh out loud. Regards, Flip.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

FlipFlopFly said:


> Ya mean you kin git de Black and White ones in de udder countrees too?:smile:
> 
> You made me laugh out loud. Regards, Flip.


Or the classics

GIBSON LES PAUL by epiphone
FENDER STRAT by squier


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

bagpipe said:


> Dont want to link to the original ad, but this one on Kijiji Ottawa gave me a chuckle - pleading for some common sense :rockon2:
> 
> I sometimes feel the same way when I see some of the asking prices on Kijiji etc:
> 
> ...



Maybe some donkeys think that a 2 year old guitar is vintage.


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## Greenbacker (Mar 29, 2007)

torndownunit said:


> GIBSON LES PAUL by epiphone


Ugh. You nailed it there. I get _so_ annoyed by this one in particular. Or the title will just be _Gibson Guitar_ and when you open the ad it is an Epi Strat from the '80s.


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## Jaggery (Mar 12, 2006)

I list them somewhat higher but negotiate to a lower and reasonable.
Even higher if I am not sure if I want to keep or sell.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Jaggery said:


> I list them somewhat higher but negotiate to a lower and reasonable.
> Even higher if I am not sure if I want to keep or sell.


Ummmm aren't you supposed to have decided before you list?


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> Ummmm aren't you supposed to have decided before you list?


Ya, I don't get the whole 'feeler' thing which is common on other forums. If you want to sell your gear, sell it. If you don't, don't waste people's time.


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## Jaggery (Mar 12, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> Ummmm aren't you supposed to have decided before you list?


If I have a guitar that is going unplayed but a great guitar none the less, I list it and if I get a good price for it its gone 
but I am not going to let it go cheap, unless its hard times. I dont want have to fork out extra to buy it back again.

Actually more often than not I have gotten good price after some negotiations.
I only sell on CL.

Only thing I bought on CL in all these years is an ikea armchair.

Also I have taken enough losses over the years that now I dont want to sell for a loss on used gear. 

People get easily annoyed thesedays.
Just ignore it. Which you do anyways....


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Jaggery said:


> If I have a guitar that is going unplayed but a great guitar none the less, I list it and if I get a good price for it its gone
> but I am not going to let it go cheap, unless its hard times. I dont want have to fork out extra to buy it back again.
> 
> Actually more often than not I have gotten good price after some negotiations.
> ...


There is a point where if the item is listed high enough, you may as well buy brand new. 
I could have bought the Dr Z Stangray that I own for less used but I like the idea of me being the only one to ever play it. There is a lot of nice gear in the used section for good prices that are not selling. 
I figure if you are paying 75 -80% of retail for used, you may as well buy new.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Funny TheOM(?) story

A guy had a Jackson USA "rare" guitar for $1600 or something like that. I was interested, contacted him, got the serial number and whatnot, googled for the harmony central review. Turns out the guitar was a Drum City Guitar Land (www.drumcityguitarland.com - GAS inducing site!), and retailed for about $1400USD when it hit. He pretty much wanted the brand new price for this used guitar - stellar condition, but used. I told him about it, I even called DCGL to ask about the price they had it for. Even after explaining that his price was too high, and deciding not to buy it... I saw it listed a week later at the same price.

I hope someoneo didn't buy it for that much, believing buddy's lies. The thing that I don't like is that I corrected him on the stats of his guitar, and he didn't change his listing. Some people just suck with the honesty thing.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

My pet peeve is reading ads that just don't give enough information to know if the price is fair or not. I've seen some that are simply "Acoustic guitar - $100" or "Electric guitar - $250." No mention of what brand it is, no photos, nothing, or perhaps photos but nothing that shows the head so I still can't guess what the brand might be.

Just before Xmas a guy listed an Epi SG on Kijiji, saying it was broken and asking for offers. That was the extent of the info. I emailed him asking for pics and more info, after 3 emails he finally sent 2 pics of the guitar in its case but with no info about what was broken on it. I kept asking and after a couple more emails he said there was a small crack on the neck. A couple more emails and he finally sent pics showing the neck broken most of the way through and just held on by the fretboard. If he had just posted those from the begining I probably would have bought the guitar but after 2 days of emailing for info I frankly lost interest.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

i don't think it's a question of honesty...don't forget...some high dollar items also involve hundreds of dollars in taxes...

for example...a $2800 les paul comes to $3164 with tax ($364)...

if the seller sells for $2500...he's actually lost $664...that's a lotta dough-re-mi

the buyer further lowballs the seller...say...to $2200...the loss is now close to a thousand bucks...or one/third of the new price...

as someone who has been laid off most of this year...and "forced" to sell gear to pays the bills...these lowballers come across as scumbags trying to take advantage of the current economic situation...they think that every seller is desperate to sell...and purposely offer "peanuts"...hoping to pick up gear for a "steal"......


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## WannabeGood (Oct 24, 2007)

jimihendrix said:


> ...hoping to pick up gear for a "steal"......


You say that like its a bad thing............Who on this board hasn't gone for a "steal"/good deal/great deal............Maybe to get it or maybe to be beat out.......... What annoys me personally is ads like the following:


I really want to Learn The Bass Guitar, but do not have enought money to purchase one. If u have an old one laying around you no-longer need or use and would be willing to give it away. please email me! thank you.

While I have no doubt some of these ads are legit I can't help thinking that most are posted by persons of questionable ethics. Is it just me?

I check Kijiji (and this site) several times during the day and have scored, I think, some wonderful "steals". Most of these at or near asking price. Gotta love Kijiji.

Regards,

Happy New Year to all.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

jimihendrix said:


> i don't think it's a question of honesty...don't forget...some high dollar items also involve hundreds of dollars in taxes...
> 
> for example...a $2800 les paul comes to $3164 with tax ($364)...
> 
> ...


Losing taxes on a purchase is just a fact of life though. What some one paid in taxes does not factor into the cost of any other used item (cars, tv's, computers). It doesn't on guitars either. People seem to get this with other items, but not with musical gear for some reason.

You are not going to make your money back on (a) taxes or (b) mods you choose to do in most cases. Don't count on getting money back on tax, and always keep your original parts if you think you are going to sell.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

it depends on your situation...

a well informed guitarist should do research to learn everything there is to know about guitars...including current used/new/resale values...there is no excuse for NOT knowing these things...the info is readily available to anybody who can read a price guide...or talk to a guitar salesman...or surf the internet... 

***if you are laid off...and SELLING things off to make ends meet...you are obviously looking for "top dollar"...while trying set "fair" price...you don't really WANT to sell your gear...you HAVE to sell your gear...

***if you've given up on the guitar and simply want to dump it because you have no more use for it...and don't mind taking a loss...or don't care...you'll probably SELL it at a lower price to get rid of it quickly...

***if everything is just peachy in your life and you are BUYING...then you are looking for a "deal"...offering a lower-but-fair price is acceptable...as long as a MUTUAL agreement is made...

***if you're a scumbag trying to take advantage of other people's misfortunes...by offering ridiculously insulting lowball offers...and sending harrassing/derogatory phone calls and e-mails...or any other bottom feeder activities...then...i've got no use for you...


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Well said Jimmi..


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

jimihendrix said:


> it depends on your situation...
> 
> a well informed guitarist should do research to learn everything there is to know about guitars...including current used/new/resale values...there is no excuse for NOT knowing these things...the info is readily available to anybody who can read a price guide...or talk to a guitar salesman...or surf the internet...
> 
> ...


While all of that is rational and I agree, there are certain facts when it comes to dealing used still though. There is a depreciation in value on items, and you are going to lose money on certain things (again taxes, mods). Being laid off obviously sucks, but it doesn't change whatever the going used rates are for an item. It's a case of horrible timing and a bad economy. Selling stuff is hard right now, and if you HAVE to sell right now it's going to be tough. The chances that you are going to get higher than whatever the going rate is are pretty slim. And that going rate could be disappointing.

The problem is a lot of people are unwilling to accept all of that even if they have been told. That is a reality of dealing on Craigslist and Kijiji.

As a seller you have the power to turn down any offer as well. You have the option to not even respond to an offer if you want. I personally choose to politely reply to people, and have never had anyone send me a negative email or harass me in any way.

I work very hard to come up with what I consider fair prices. And since 90% of my items sell within a week I assume I am doing an ok job. I have never felt like I took any kind of beating on a sale.

IMO, the 'bad sellers' are just as bad as the 'bad buyers' on Kijiji/Craigslist. I don't like seeing the lowballing, and I don't like seeing the unrealistic pricing. And sorry, but trying to recoup what was paid in taxes falls under unrealistic for me. But in the end, I have always found serious buyers.


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## jv100k (Feb 29, 2008)

There are good and bad things with Kijiji/Craigs the *good*-

Easy to use -people sometimes list things without research=deals for me
Fractured into small areas=better chance of being first in
*BAD*-

-"Best Offer"-put it on e-bay or do some research and go away
-Commercial sellers 
-unrealistic prices and overlisting of same add
There are more to add to both lists.I am a serial kijiji/craigs viewer and i find some great deals.2009 was my worst year yet tho because as Jimmi said people are hurting and they are asking top buck and doing homework.
One more thing that get's my goat is the guy who overbid on E-bay and than wants the local market to eat his shipping/taxes etc....when he overpaid in the first place.
Deals this week for me-Vintage tubesceamer-50$
Six 1972 CTS alnico speakers(4 working)-80.00 $

-


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## Fader (Mar 10, 2009)

It depends on the market. If it's a rare offering, you may get what you're asking or more. If there's all kinds to choose from, and the market is flooded, expect offers to be low. If you're motivated, you sell. If not you can wait or negotiate.

You're over complicating a simple business deal by expecting people to determine the sellers financial status and adjusting their offer so as not to offend. 

If I was in desperate need of cash, a low offer is better that no offer.
I wouldn't happy about taking an enormous loss, but it's better than being hungry sitting in the dark staring at my chipped and scratched-up guitar that I'm trying to get what I paid for it plus taxes.

The scumbag could actually be your savior.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

I sold some music gear on Kijiji and found that I was quite impressed with the people that responded. They were polite and logical and would show up when and where that they said they would. It actually sold all quite easily. It might have helped that I had a good idea how to give a good deal as well, without being taken advantage of. There was a huge mutual respect among musicians and you could sense the honesty that everyone shared. Musicians generally are good people (mostly). There was one big item that I had for sale for longer than a few weeks, and I dropped the price in half because I was moving and I didn't want to take it with me. 1 guy showed interest but didn't contact me again for about a month and then asked to see it. When he did show up, he was wondering if I could go slightly lower than the $500 that he had seen posted. I laughed and explained that the ad was different than he remembered and it was currently at $250. I could have used the extra money, but I could never give a real nice musician a higher price than I gave the internet. He didn't try to push the price any more and said "that's more than fair". There was a mutual respect and no desire to take advantage of each other when we both obviously could have quite easily in the situation.

In contrast to people responding to ads for a huge TV that I was practically giving away; musicians are the creme of society. I would get emails saying that they are coming for it every single day for a month but they would completely flake out before even being able to pick up the phone to find out my address. I gave the TV to a co-worker who really appreciated it.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

jv100k said:


> There are good and bad things with Kijiji/Craigs the *good*-
> 
> Easy to use -people sometimes list things without research=deals for me
> Fractured into small areas=better chance of being first in
> ...


Unfortunately, this is a scourge on Kijiji right now. Example, there is a music store in the Mississauga section that posts the maximum amount of ads allowed every single week in the Musical Instruments section. Which in turn takes up the first 4-5 pages of the section at the start of each week. When he hasn't managed to flood the section, he removes some ads and posts again. He's go sneaking around Kijiji's policies down to a science.

It's especially annoying because he will post 5 different ads for 5 different saxaphones, instead of one ad with all 5 in it. He does the same thing with every other instrument he sells.

Anyway, it makes it impossible to browse the section. And stuff like this is getting to be normal with Kijiji. They don't have policies that say dealers can't post. And their posting policies are so loose, that dealers can just totally abuse them. Unless people flag ads, nothing gets done and people generally are invested in the site enough to take the time to do that.

It's too bad because I like the general layout of that site. It's nice to use. They currently have a filter in their auto section that can filter out dealer or private sales. I am hoping they do this with other sections, because if they don't that site will be totally in the crapper before long.


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## jv100k (Feb 29, 2008)

Agreed on the commercial adds being a problem.Kijiji's flagging system is pretty weak.There is a shop very close to me in West Hamilton that has consignment item's at 20-40%+ market value.They spam Ham-To Kijiji regularly.The owner is an aquiantance and i have tried to point out that it isn't the best move but they continue on because it's free.
They will be out of business sooner than later that will be the best thing for all.


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## monty (Feb 9, 2009)

^
I asked the shop about that, they feel they are doing nothing wrong. I am getting tired of seeing that Duo-sonic and Strat on there though.
I also hate the fake stories, like that Strat on there right now that the guy bought for 150 more than the going rate for a new one at L&M (where he said he bought it).

Oh, I hate the flakes too. 
I've bought a bunch of stuff on there, and the only time it was 100% smooth was when the seller was none other than our own Jimi.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

don't get me wrong...i've sold quite a few things on kijiji absolutely trouble free...it's just the odd nutbar out there...

for example...

i was selling an old american vintage tweed amp...one e-mail started out..."hey fu**stick..."...nice...then this guy continued to call me a "sh*thead"..."loser"..."pathetic"..."moron"..."as*hole"...he was just seething mad and hostile...apparently he didn't like the asking price...

another guy showed up...stayed for 3 or 4 hours playing every guitar/amp/pedal i owned...only to walk out the door saying that he never intended on buying anything...he just wanted to try out several pieces of gear...he said..."i asked if i could come over to TRY out gear - i never once stated that i was coming over to actually BUY anything"...WTF...???...

another guy showed up and claimed he owned a music store and that he could buy everything that i was selling for 1/3 the cost of retail...then proceeded to point to each item i was selling and quote insanely low prices and demand that i sell him a room full of gear right now...then told me that if i didn't sell to him...that nobody else would buy my gear...i found out later from my musician friends that this guy likes to go around scamming widows out of music gear by telling them that their husband's "old used gibsons and martins were worthless pieces of junk" and that he would "kindly" offer to take them off their hands for dirt cheap...what a scumbag...

a woman asked me why i was selling a drum kit for $699 instead of $700...i told her that every store prices items that way...it's a common practice everywhere...she accused me of "trickery" and "deceipt" because she thought she was buying a drum kit for $600 instead of $700...um...okay...


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

jimihendrix said:


> don't get me wrong...i've sold quite a few things on kijiji absolutely trouble free...it's just the odd nutbar out there...
> 
> for example...
> 
> ...


I have never had a single experience like that. Maybe you are just a weirdo magnet lol.

I just tell people 'cash in hand, and no negotiating once you get here' as soon as we make any arrangements to meet. I filter through all emails and responses carefully to make sure no one who is looking to deal will even show up here. All dealing is done on the phone or in email. 

When they come here, they are verifying the items condition and paying for it. Anything else and they are out my door. No touching any of my other gear, which is hidden before they get here, unless we are getting along well and they want to try it out after the sale.

If I get any odd comments about the item in email, I just politely say you are more than welcome to look elsewhere. I am always polite, and always respond. I keep all email offers because who knows, my price aren't always bang on for the market. If I decide I want to get rid of the item, the chance is there. I just tell the people, 'I am not willing to go that low, but I will contact you if that ever changes'.

And the other 'golden rule', at least for me. I will not hold an item. First come first served.

You HAVE to have a strict set of rules for every step of the process I have found, and you have to tell people your conditions in the add or on first communication. 99% of my sales have been positive, and I have met a lot of very cool people. I have even sold items to the same people more than once. Which is kinda neat because I don't live in a major city. I am 30 minutes from any Kijiji/Craigslist main locations.


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2010)

I like your rules. Especially no dealing once you've arranged to met vim going to start doing that.


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## jv100k (Feb 29, 2008)

iaresee said:


> I like your rules. Especially no dealing once you've arranged to met vim going to start doing that.


That works when you know your stuff inside out and pic/describe it accur ately(rarely happens).If I find something Fugazi after the fact i dammn sure are gonna negotiate come to think of it i always try anyway it can't hurt.(maybe your feelings i guess)BOO HOOO kkjuw


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

jimihendrix said:


> a woman asked me why i was selling a drum kit for $699 instead of $700...i told her that every store prices items that way...it's a common practice everywhere...she accused me of "trickery" and "deceipt" because she thought she was buying a drum kit for $600 instead of $700...um...okay...


Which is precisely why retailers use 699 or 695 etc-some people just see the first number


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

torndownunit said:


> I have never had a single experience like that. Maybe you are just a weirdo magnet lol.
> 
> I just tell people 'cash in hand, and no negotiating once you get here' as soon as we make any arrangements to meet. I filter through all emails and responses carefully to make sure no one who is looking to deal will even show up here. All dealing is done on the phone or in email.
> 
> ...



i'll agree with most of that.
i've sold a fair bit of stuff via internet sites and seldom had any issues.
i keep the rules simple.
first i never list more than a couple items at once.
when a prospective buyer comes to see the item,i have that item and any related paperwork, manuals, boxes etc ready and waiting. i would never allow a stranger to see or 'try out' all of my gear or even discuss what other items i might have. 
if it is something they need to make certain is in good working order, then i will have it set up and ready to test. 
if it was say a pedal or an amp, i would have my least expensive (but fully functional guitar and the pedal and/or a practise amp available. all other gear is out of sight.
i definitely confirm in advance, that items are cash and carry only.
i provide a written receipt for cash received.

i am honest and businesslike with people and i expect the same.
if they want to haggle or run some scheme, i am quick to let them know i am not interested. there are always other buyers out there.

on the other hand, i have also bought gear over the net and always been straight forward in my dealings with sellers too. i do my homework, ask lots of questions and make sure there are no misunderstandings before i agree to buy. 
there are definitely a lot of freaks out there, but you've got to protect yourself and know how and when to just say no and walk away. there are always other deals to be found, whether you are buying or selling.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

jv100k said:


> That works when you know your stuff inside out and pic/describe it accur ately(rarely happens).If I find something Fugazi after the fact i dammn sure are gonna negotiate come to think of it i always try anyway it can't hurt.(maybe your feelings i guess)BOO HOOO kkjuw


six-strings post relates to mine in this regard. I take tons of photos, take my time writing a good ad, and let the seller know to ask me ANY questions he wants and that I will gladly answer them. I am 100% confident my items are as described, and that it will simply be an issue of the seller testing the item to verify and buying it. And as with six-string, whenever possible I keep all paperwork, packaging, or anything else I have for an item.

I like six-strings post. He summarizes it perfectly when he mentions being professional. I honestly think this is a natural 'filter' to keep away time wasters and people trying to pull fast ones on your.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Another thing I hate about Kijiji is that some guys insist on posting in other cities. Yes I look at other cities and would be willing to travel for the right thing but I can look in the cities that I am willing to travel too. I grow tired of looking at what I think are local ads but find it's a posting from London. He** that's 5 hrs away from where I am and I would probably be driving by 20 of the same item in the process. 

A little different with organs but you have to factor in the move into the price.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> Another thing I hate about Kijiji is that some guys insist on posting in other cities. Yes I look at other cities and would be willing to travel for the right thing but I can look in the cities that I am willing to travel too. I grow tired of looking at what I think are local ads but find it's a posting from London. He** that's 5 hrs away from where I am and I would probably be driving by 20 of the same item in the process.
> 
> A little different with organs but you have to factor in the move into the price.


In my case, I live in Orangeville. So I am under an hour away from Toronto, Mississauga, Brampton, Newmarket, and Guelph. And under 2 hours from Barrie and Kitchener. So in my case I do cross post across cities, but I think it's reasonable.

I found a guitar I really wanted posted in the Toronto Kijiji though, and it turns out the guy was located in St Thomas. THAT is definitely pushing it.


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## jv100k (Feb 29, 2008)

Facts are T.O. London and Hamilton are the most active Kijiji musicial instrument boards.All within resonable driving distance i always post in all of them hwopv


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

jv100k said:


> Facts are T.O. London and Hamilton are the most active Kijiji musicial instrument boards.All within resonable driving distance i always post in all of them hwopv


In the first line of my ads, I put with an astriks that I live in Orangeville. Most of the places are only 1/2 hour away from me, but I still think it's good etiquette. Or at least fill in your city/town in the fields in the ad. A lot of people post in other cities and make no mention that they are actually 2 hours from the city.

I personally think London is pushing it as far as 'reasonable' driving distance from Toronto. Hamilton comes kind of close as well. Just my opinion.


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## jv100k (Feb 29, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> In the first line of my ads, I put with an astriks that I live in Orangeville. Most of the places are only 1/2 hour away from me, but I still think it's good etiquette. Or at least fill in your city/town in the fields in the ad. A lot of people post in other cities and make no mention that they are actually 2 hours from the city.
> 
> I personally think London is pushing it as far as 'reasonable' driving distance from Toronto. Hamilton comes kind of close as well. Just my opinion.


I would drive quite a distance for a nice piece maybe like that Reverberocket you snagged a few years ago:smile:
Last winter i drove 1.5hrs for this pair and have no regrets.The ad had a horrible blurry shot little info and was too far for most subway riders.Turned out to be two 1965 closet dwellers......


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

i used to own a mint condition national studio 10 exactly like it...unfortunately i HAD to sell it...lemme know if you ever wanna part ways with it...:smile:


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## Kenmac (Jan 24, 2007)

First of all, Happy New Year everybody. :smile: Just thought I'd add my own little anecdote here. Last month I was trying to sell my M-Audio Trigger Finger here but after two weeks I decided to pull the ad and try selling it on Kijiji and Craigslist. I received a few e-mails about it. There was one guy in particular who sent me an e-mail where he was offering me $100.00 for it but the price I was asking was $135.00. The next day he sent me another e-mail once again insisting that I sell it for $100.00. I informed him that the original price was well over $200.00 not including the adapter I bought for it separately.

Well anyway, today I finally *did* sell it to a guy who came to my place all the way from Mississauga. He was willing to pay the full amount for it but I told him I'd take $125.00 instead because it's quite a distance from Mississauga to Scarborough and I figured he could use the extra money for some gas. He seemed like a nice guy, mid 20's or so and he told me he was going to use it for deejaying. I guess I've been pretty fortunate in that everything I've sold so far has been bought by decent, honest and nice people. When I read about what Jimi went through with some of his sales, boy!


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## Gizmo (Aug 7, 2008)

If we're into anecdotes...

My very first experience with this board was after some guy offered me $500 for an 80's Jap Tele, claiming that he'd always wanted this particular model. I sold it to him only to find the very same Tele posted here the next day for $650.

What burned me up was that I'd held it for him 'cos he'd committed to buy and I turned away someone who offered me $600...someone who I know was a real guitarist who wanted this guitar. 

I was sad that I'd sold it to someone who just wanted to make money instead of someone who really wanted to have THIS guitar.

My philosophy is that my word is my bond and a verbal agreement is a contract.

I've bought and sold a lot of stuff on Kijiji and eBay, but unfortunately, because of some of the buyers on Kijiji, I'm moving to a "first come, first served" philosophy.


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## xbolt (Jan 1, 2008)

I recently responded to an add for a guitar and left my phone number...
He called me 20 minutes later and told me I was the first to respond to the add, so I asked him a couple of questions and he answered...I was just about to ask him directions so I could pick it up but he proceeded to tell me he would have to call me back in 5 minutes because he had another call needed to take. I politely obliged him.

After waiting 45 minutes, I decided to call him back just to see if he forgot about me...he appologized and told me that the call was from another buyer and that the guitar was now sold...He politely told me better luck next time...


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

that's weak.

I just hope my guitar sells quick when I list it next week!


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Budda said:


> that's weak.
> 
> I just hope my guitar sells quick when I list it next week!


You can sell stuff there? :sport-smiley-002:... we need a regret emtoticon


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## 1PUTTS (Sep 8, 2007)

jimihendrix said:


> don't get me wrong...i've sold quite a few things on kijiji absolutely trouble free...it's just the odd nutbar out there...
> 
> another guy showed up...stayed for 3 or 4 hours playing every guitar/amp/pedal i owned...only to walk out the door saying that he never intended on buying anything...he just wanted to try out several pieces of gear...he said..."i asked if i could come over to TRY out gear - i never once stated that i was coming over to actually BUY anything"...WTF...???...


I think you posted that story in another Kijiji thread and I thought it was pretty funny then...and it still is! You have to give the guy some Kramer points for that maneuver.


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## noman (Jul 24, 2006)

I've had very good luck with Kijiji, both selling and buying. The one rule I have is I do not give my home address. If someone wants to try the item, I have a business address and I happily meet anyone or leave the item there for inspection. I did once buy a guitar from these forums and agreed to have the seller come to my home......he is a police-officer so I thought that would be legit enough!! I have really made some great deals with Kijiji and this forum......

CV60's strat........$175
CV tele...............$200
CV Duosonic........$150

You just have to be a precise as possible with your listing and do not give out your address..........


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## Jaggery (Mar 12, 2006)

noman said:


> I've had very good luck with Kijiji, both selling and buying. The one rule I have is I do not give my home address. If someone wants to try the item, I have a business address and I happily meet anyone or leave the item there for inspection. I did once buy a guitar from these forums and agreed to have the seller come to my home......he is a police-officer so I thought that would be legit enough!! I have really made some great deals with Kijiji and this forum......
> 
> CV60's strat........$175
> CV tele...............$200
> ...


I almost always invite people over into my home / room and let them play to their hearts content the gear being sold. 
I even allow them to play any other gear I have.

Never had an issue. All good people till now...

When I reply to a query i always tell them they are most welcome to inspect it and try before even making an offer. 
I figure that is one advantage the buyer should have if buying locally.


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## rhh7 (Mar 14, 2008)

I have been biting my tongue for several days, but here goes: I like everyone who has posted in this thread...but!

In the past 6 months I have sold at least 6 guitars using Kijiji...I only broke even on one, the others were at a loss of 40-50% of what I paid for them.

I would never call the buyers "idiots" or "scumbags". I also can not judge whether they were "taking advantage" of me. 

Perhaps they offered as much as they could afford. I only know that at the time, I needed cash badly, and it was better than going to a pawn shop. YMMV.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

well...what would you call someone that preys on widows in mourning to trick them into selling their husband's vintage gear to him for peanuts...???...an entrepreneur...???...

"scumbag" pretty much sums it up...:smile:

"pedator" comes to mind too...


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2010)

noman said:


> CV60's strat........$175
> CV tele...............$200
> CV Duosonic........$150


Good luck indeed! I'd love to pick up a CV Tele used. They advertise On Kijiji here in Ottawa for basically brand new. Around 350.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

jimihendrix said:


> another guy showed up and claimed he owned a music store and that he could buy everything that i was selling for 1/3 the cost of retail...


I had a guy like that call when I had listed one of my guitars several years ago (Fortunately my financial situation improved before I sold it.)

I knew he just wanted to re-sell it, and he was going to ask more than he offered me--so he was telling me nobody would pay me more than he was offering for it--yet he was going to sell it for more than that.

I pointed that out to him, but he just repeated his offer & ignore my question.

Even if he'd raised his offer I wouldn't have sold it to him.


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## noman (Jul 24, 2006)

Jaggery said:


> I almost always invite people over into my home / room and let them play to their hearts content the gear being sold.
> I even allow them to play any other gear I have.
> 
> Never had an issue. All good people till now...
> ...


I have heard that some B & E experts like to troll the Kijiji ads.....easy access to your home and easy to scout the place out. Just not worth the chance for me........I'll meet them if they want or if they want to try something out, they can plug in at my store.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

torndownunit said:


> Losing taxes on a purchase is just a fact of life though. What some one paid in taxes does not factor into the cost of any other used item (cars, tv's, computers). It doesn't on guitars either. People seem to get this with other items, but not with musical gear for some reason.
> 
> You are not going to make your money back on (a) taxes or (b) mods you choose to do in most cases. Don't count on getting money back on tax, and always keep your original parts if you think you are going to sell.



While I agree that it's unreasonable to expect to recoup taxes paid on a new instrument, I still think it's legitimate to consider the total price paid when deciding which used price to set. In pure negotiation terms, it's explained as such:

An item should be priced relative to the potential buyer's BATNA (Best Alternative To A Negotiated Agreement) or, in simple terms, the buyers next best choice. So, if an item is otherwise only available new then the total cost to that buyer includes taxes. If your rule of thumb as a seller is 70% of new, then you'd price it at 70% of a potential buyer's BATNA (new with taxes). That being said, there are probably only a few instances where items would only be available new so the BATNA now includes other comparable used intruments that are _equally available_ i.e. local or easily shipped. In those cases, an instrument should simply be priced relative to the others. Just my $.02...

Steve


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## Jimi D (Oct 27, 2008)

jimihendrix said:


> well...what would you call someone that preys on widows in mourning to trick them into selling their husband's vintage gear to him for peanuts...???...an entrepreneur...???...
> 
> "scumbag" pretty much sums it up...:smile:
> 
> "pedator" comes to mind too...


"parasite" is my prefered appelation... but I'll use that to describe those who haunt the forsale sites like Kijiji in the hopes of scoring a good price on a guitar only to flip it two days later or put it up on the local consignment shop for an additional $300 or $400 or whatever... I figure if I don't really want it or need it, leave it for some kid who doesn't have the means and will maybe put it to good use, but those days are over thanks to these toads... Their "I'll give you x cash in hand right now" lowball offers on stuff I have for sale are never appreciated either - I don't even respond to these morons; I mean, they're making me an offer without even seeing or playing the instrument... One day, I'll agree to the price, then take a screwdriver to the control cavity and completely gut the electronics before handing the guitar over to the idiot... Anyway, these reseller-type bottom-feeders really creep me out, and they're the primary reason I don't bother much with the forsale sites any more...


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## NIK0 (Dec 6, 2007)

Hmmm, interesting thread! I have so many thoughts on this matter but need to collect my thoughts on this before I say anything. My last post on a sort of related topic made me realize how we all have strong feelings on the subject and what we believe are the right and wrongs of the B&S market. My post in particular stirred up a lot of shit so I will chose my words carefully ;-)


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

StevieMac said:


> While I agree that it's unreasonable to expect to recoup taxes paid on a new instrument, I still think it's legitimate to consider the total price paid when deciding which used price to set. In pure negotiation terms, it's explained as such:
> 
> An item should be priced relative to the potential buyer's BATNA (Best Alternative To A Negotiated Agreement) or, in simple terms, the buyers next best choice. So, if an item is otherwise only available new then the total cost to that buyer includes taxes. If your rule of thumb as a seller is 70% of new, then you'd price it at 70% of a potential buyer's BATNA (new with taxes). *That being said, there are probably only a few instances where items would only be available new so the BATNA now includes other comparable used intruments that are equally available i.e. local or easily shipped. In those cases, an instrument should simply be priced relative to the others. Just my $.02...
> *
> Steve



I do totally agree with you on that. But ya, a huge % of the time the going used rates aren't affected by what the total price with taxes was. And especially not on a lot of import gear that is readily available from a lot of used sources. The scenario you mention can happen, but more times than not it likely won't.

There is obviously another market and criteria for vintage, and very high end gear. I do agree that with that higher end gear, the total cost is more of a factor in the used price. But that is a pretty small amount of gear. And very few people will ever recoup taxes in the end even in those situations. Even with high end guitars like Gibson's and PRS, people are rarely going to recoup their taxes. They normally won't on custom made gear either.

But in the end, it all comes back to a couple of facts pointed out throughout the thread (at least to me). One, if the item just won't sell, you may have it priced too high. 2, even people with limited gear knowledge should be able to find the going used rates fairly easily nowadays.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

rhh7 said:


> I have been biting my tongue for several days, but here goes: I like everyone who has posted in this thread...but!
> 
> In the past 6 months I have sold at least 6 guitars using Kijiji...I only broke even on one, the others were at a loss of 40-50% of what I paid for them.
> 
> ...


If you really needed the money, *that's probably the only reason you let the items sell for so little*


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

noman said:


> I have heard that some B & E experts like to troll the Kijiji ads.....easy access to your home and easy to scout the place out. Just not worth the chance for me........I'll meet them if they want or if they want to try something out, they can plug in at my store.


Being a London member, what store???


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Budda said:


> If you really needed the money, *that's probably the only reason you let the items sell for so little*


Indeed. 

I sell guitars most often via kijiji. If someone offers me something I do a little math in my head and I either say "ok" or "I'd rather keep it than sell it for that" because really that's the only 2 choices that I have. If I needed the money and had nobody else lined up to see the guitar then I'd pretty much have to counter offer or accept what they offered.

I HOPE that I never have to sell anything at less than a fair price. Needing to sell is something that I have been fortunate enough to avoid but wanting to sell is always in the back of my mind to some degree. 

I have bought items at great prices and sold them for the same prices to people that I know because I don't like to profit from my friends - that doesn't sit well with me.


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## Jaggery (Mar 12, 2006)

I still dont see why I should NOT list MY guitar at the price I want.

Sometimes when I get emails reminding me of the great injustice I 
am perpetrating, I feel like I am forcing people to buy my guitar.
My ads are very clear about making offers.

Then there are people posting Ads about other Ads and how the item 
can be had for peanuts. Too much time on hand....

We live in a free market society. 
If you believe the market will decide the final price then so be it.
All other arguments are useless.

Please dont be the price police and dont get annoyed so easily 
just because you see an ad posted often.
:sport-smiley-002:


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Jaggery said:


> I still dont see why I should NOT list MY guitar at the price I want.
> 
> Sometimes when I get emails reminding me of the great injustice I
> am perpetrating, I feel like I am forcing people to buy my guitar.
> ...



You are free to do that. But don't be surprised when you get emails from people about the price. You are dealing with people who are shopping for a used item. So yes, they have time on their hands. I spend months sometimes looking at items on sites and comparing prices before I buy. It doesn't make me a jerk, it makes me an educated buyer.

People willing to take offers, and saying so in their ads are not the problem. It's people who go on and on in their ads about how much they paid in taxes, and why you should be paying retail price for their used items. Or why the guitar is worth $50 more because they are throwing in a strap in the deal. Then they get offended when you make them a polite, reasonable offer.

I have said it before, but the problems on Kijiji/Craigslist are equal part seller and buyer IMO. When you do deal with the educated buyers and sellers and transactions usually go great. It can just take awhile to get to that point lol :smile:


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## NIK0 (Dec 6, 2007)

Jaggery said:


> I still dont see why I should NOT list MY guitar at the price I want.
> 
> Sometimes when I get emails reminding me of the great injustice I
> am perpetrating, I feel like I am forcing people to buy my guitar.
> ...


I have to say that I agree with you...but...to a certain degree.

The majority of you who added your two cents have great opinions and side with pretty much all of you. From scamming a poor old widow to taking into account that you had to pay taxes on your initial purchase and feel that factoring it in should be fine (well sort of agree with that). We technically should be reimbursing the government on the B&S transaction as it is illegal not to pay taxes on the exchange, regardless of any excuse you can come up with. Well if you say the amp you gave the other guy was a gift and he gifted you money as something along the lines of a charitable donation and he of course is your immediate family and signed a gift letter, well then it is ok  

Taxes are a reality and something that cannot be avoidable. The majority of you pay your 30-40% off your pay cheques only to have to pay more taxes when you buy new products with money that was already taxed to begin with. I don't think we should be downloading that screwed up tax law onto someone who is buying a used item from you. If I sell an item...as the original owner I don't believe I should include the taxes that I paid into account at all. I am sure we can come up with examples with higher priced items that we were taxed heavily on but let’s just leave this one alone...

I believe quite simply that in order to participate in the buy and sell market, you should be educated and understand the etiquette. There is something to be said about buyer beware and its common practices.

Most use EBay and other ads as reference prior to pricing an item that we contemplate about selling. I follow a rule of thumb (not that this rule applies to all items and I am not including vintage and collectible items) where a musical instrument or any other item is not worth the same price as it was priced at the store even though you just walked out of the store 24 hours ago. It is a reality that we live with as all products take a 10-20% hit the moment you leave the store. Would you give someone the same price for an item that was purchased from a store 24 hours ago when you can go and buy it yourself for the same price? I am sure the answer is no! The buyer should take advantage of the return policy in the event he/she is not happy. In the event you hold on to an item longer then the stated return policy, you need to list your asking price accordingly. So what is the right price?

Now and a big NOW, there is no law that states that you should be deducting a certain amount of your purchase because it has now become second hand. To be frank...you can list it for as much as you want to, double the price for all we care. Your ad will only be successful if you make it appealing to an educated buyer. Take a brand new Empress Superdelay as an example, $449 on their website and I see them selling second hand for $350 - $400. Fair price? In new condition yes! But take an ad that lists their second hand Superdelay which they just purchased 3 months prior and decided it wasn't for them. Price? $450! His claim was that you are saving on taxes and shipping...you be the judge.

My only comment is that for the most part, we have been quite blessed as GASsie musicians with great B&S ads out there that are very fair. The over priced ads we simply overlook and move onto the next.

Why we should waste time and vent on ads that list their obsolete products at astronomical prices is beyond me. Why do you care? Make an offer or look for another one.

Part of the great thing of joining a member site like this one is that we are a community of musicians and are educated on how to sell a used item. I cannot say that I have seen an ad on here where I thought it was over priced and if it was, some fellow member would make a kind comment about it to educate the seller.

As someone has said in my thread a couple of months ago...with CL and Kijiji, you are exposed to the entire B&S world and who knows who you are dealing with. Ignorance is everywhere so don't expect someone to be a solid seller on these public sites.


P.S. Never had a chance to say this to anyone....HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL AND ALL THE BEST TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILIES


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

I generally approve the presence of the price police. I'd never post that stuff myself - I'm hands off that way - but I believe they're usually doing the market a fair service. Sometimes they go overboard - and sometimes I in turn will flag such nuisance posting.

In any case, viewers are always free to ignore those warning & complaint postings and concentrate instead on real ads offering real items. Personally, I usually flag people abusing CL - either through over-zealous price cop behaviour, or people bitching about whatever, or commercial interests posting stuff - essentially abusing the CL terms of service. Some people think nothing should be flagged. Not me... I want as little noise-to-signal as possible in these places. That's what makes them work, and constant collective monitoring/modding actually works. So far, anyway.

Basically, price police postings in places like CL and Kijiji serve to remind people that, as ever, it's buyer beware and you ought to do your due diligence in terms of research - else you might get ripped off. Plenty of naive types still around, after all - and maybe that pleases some of the more predatory sellers out there... but if some price cop post is getting under their skin, that's just too bad. They can always try some other avenue to move their gear.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

what is interesting about this thread is it shows 2 distinct points of view about B&S of used gear. on the one hand are folks who out of necessity feel compelled to sell their stuff but are very emotionally attached to it, seem to resent having to let it go. on the other hand some see the buying and selling as simply business transactions. 
all of the complaints, cautionary tales and recommendations described in this thread could be applied to almost any thing. guitars or toasters or cars or whatever. 
there are just as many good guys and bad guys out there in any marketplace.
one thing that was pointed out is that at least the interweb makes it easier to research what is out there and what the used market price is. that used market price is usually determined by supply and demand and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with retail prices, taxes etc.
if buyers are willing to pay it and sellers are willing to accept it, then that is what the value is.


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## NIK0 (Dec 6, 2007)

six-string said:


> that used market price is usually determined by supply and demand and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with retail prices, taxes etc.
> If buyers are willing to pay it and sellers are willing to accept it, then that is what the value is.


agreed!!!!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

In general I find people ask unrealistic prices on Kijiji. I often see used items for sale with close to new pricing and in some cases with higher prices than I could negotiate for new at my local shop.

Wishful thinking I guess, but the problem with it is, I and others like me are becoming less and less inclined to look there because of it.


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## waynekp (Aug 9, 2008)

As an economics student, I find this whole discussion very interesting. From my perspective there are several factors at play here. First, some people do not understand supply and demand, and how price changes them. There is a possibility that if you`re willing to post and repost your ad for long enough, you can get someone to pay $4500 for the equivalent of a two by four with binder twine attached. There are uneducated sellers, but there are buyers that are just as uneducated. 

Regardless of what everyone else says something is worth, everyone has an internal price that they would be happy to acquire or sell something for...If the market price for a widget is $500, and your internal price is $600, that means you got a deal, you actually had a $100 surplus on the transaction. You feel like you got a deal. If the market price is more than your internal price, you just keep looking - its not worthwhile for you to buy.

Personally, when I buy a guitar, I look at all sorts of substitutes. Different brands, different models, new, used, craigslist, ebay, and I like to think that I take the time to understand what is best for me given the various prices and what I can afford. Some people do that, and they tend to be the ones that are getting upset over the guy that wants to sell his used 5 year old MIM tele for $150 more than he paid for it. Personally, I laugh at people like that, and continue searching. Its not my business what he`s trying to sell his guitar for. If the price isn`t reasonable, I don`t even bother to comment - any comment only encourages them, ``someone replied, to say my price is dumb...that means people are reading it...`` 

When I first started playing guitar 2 years ago, I bought a Godin Detour for $400 new at L&M. I recently got a Fender MIM Strat, and have barely touched the Godin since. I thought $200 was a fair price (I`m interested for feedback on that). I listed it at $225, someone emailed offering $200, and we were both happy. Maybe I could have sold it for more if I was willing to wait another month or two, relist, answer emails over that time and blah blah blah, but the fact is that I was able to get rid of it, and is the extra $50 or $75 worth the extra aggrivation that it would take to sell at a higher price?


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Milkman said:


> In general I find people ask unrealistic prices on Kijiji. I often see used items for sale with close to new pricing and in some cases with higher prices than I could negotiate for new at my local shop.
> 
> *Wishful thinking I guess, but the problem with it is, I and others like me are becoming less and less inclined to look there because of it.*





waynekp said:


> As an economics student, I find this whole discussion very interesting. From my perspective there are several factors at play here. First, some people do not understand supply and demand, and how price changes them. There is a possibility that if you`re willing to post and repost your ad for long enough, you can get someone to pay $4500 for the equivalent of a two by four with binder twine attached. There are uneducated sellers, but there are buyers that are just as uneducated.
> 
> Regardless of what everyone else says something is worth, everyone has an internal price that they would be happy to acquire or sell something for...If the market price for a widget is $500, and your internal price is $600, that means you got a deal, you actually had a $100 surplus on the transaction. You feel like you got a deal. If the market price is more than your internal price, you just keep looking - its not worthwhile for you to buy.
> 
> ...


wayne what you say is logical. The problem is that it tends to 'ruin' a lot of the sites as Milkman points out in his post when no one is following an even remotely 'realistic' used pricing scheme. Kijiji was once a great site for buying and selling used gear... now it's just a crappy site for overpriced dealers and pawnshops. People see the pricing on their items, and use it to base their own prices off. It especially sucks if it that kind of stuff bleeds over to a community forum like this where it's not proper etiquette to comment on prices.

You are correct that it may not be anyone's business. But a lot of people really like these sites, and don't like to see them 'ruined' so they get involved.


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## -TJ- (Aug 28, 2006)

Kijiji Ottawa is particularly nutty.... some people in this city have a very dellusional idea of the value of their guitars...

particularly funny is people selling old used strats for more than a new one costs now thanks to the recent Fender price drop!

Other people outright lie.... there was a snakeskin/copper custom shop Charvel that was on Kijiji Ottawa last week.... the guy was saying he paid $2200 for it last year.... except that was the very guitar which sold at Long and McQuade Ottawa for $999 durring their boxing day sale, it had chipped finish on the headstock... I could tell it was the very same guitar because I almost bought it at L&M lol granted he only wanted $1000 for it, so ultimately it was fair, but still found the necessity to lead people on as to its worth particularly funny


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2010)

-TJ- said:


> Kijiji Ottawa is particularly nutty.... some people in this city have a very dellusional idea of the value of their guitars...


100% agree here. As much as I preach living people alone I thought the guy selling his 2-year-old Godin Flat 5 for $600 and then explaining in his ad you could buy it new at Steve's for $629 was particularly hilarious.

And that guy selling the '80's MiJ Tele last week for $450 that I posted a price inquiry thread about on GC? I contacted him and he said it was sold. But it relisted two days ago for $650. Same pics.


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

hey there...a while back i was selling an out-of-production american tweed amp in mint condition...

taking into account...

a) what i originally paid for it
b) its condition...dead mint in this case...all original...no mods
c) its desirability...aka..."supply and demand"

i posted it for $25 higher than i originally paid for it...this was on the expectation that someone would ask..."would you take $25 bucks less...???..."...not with the intention to gouge anybody...but in order to get a fair price...

some joker ranted that i was selling the guitar for higher than it cost originally...

i pointed out the abc's listed above...then proceeded to tell him about inflation...the lack of quality of amps today...and that stores routinely raise their prices...so why shouldn't the "little guy" do the same...

a 1959 les paul originally sold for $649 bucks in 1959...using the abc's list above should sell for marginally less than what they currently go for...say $2000...after all...it not an out-of-production model...they still make 'em today...now that's what i call gouging a customer...


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2010)

jimihendrix said:


> some joker ranted that i was selling the guitar for higher than it cost originally...


I mean, the truly _crazy_ thing about that kind of rant, is that you weren't selling a _guitar_.  Some nutters out there for sure...


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## jimihendrix (Jun 27, 2009)

the guy was saying that since the item was "old"...it should sell for a fraction of the original price...when i told him that if he was going by that logic....a 1959 les paul should sell for $25 bucks...not a quarter of a million dollars...

um...that's when he went ballistic...:2guns:


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

jimihendrix said:


> t..when i told him that if he was going by that logic....a 1959 les paul should sell for $25 bucks.


I like that logic.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2010)

jimihendrix said:


> the guy was saying that since the item was "old"...it should sell for a fraction of the original price...when i told him that if he was going by that logic....a 1959 les paul should sell for $25 bucks...not a quarter of a million dollars...
> 
> um...that's when he went ballistic...:2guns:


Truthfully there's a (potentially) U-shaped curve to these things. Where Y is price, X is time since it was manufactured. Everything starts out high when X=0 and it's new. Then it starts to drop. Most things will continue to drop until they reach zero. They wear out, get used up, never become desirable in the future. 

But some stuff doesn't go to zero. It bottoms out at some Y value >0. And it might stay there forever (i.e. it's collectible but not desirable). 

And then there's the collectible stuff that's desirable. That stuff, at some point along X starts to go up again. It's the old stuff that people want.

You've got to ask yourself: where on the curve do I think my shit falls? And where on the curve do I think other people think my shit falls. And likely in between those two points is The Truth or Something Like It.

The guy selling the many-years-old Godin for $30 less than new didn't have a good grasp on how steep that depreciation part of the curve really is. Hell, I didn't have a good grasp when I was selling my PedalSnake -- it never sold, and I couldn't let it go for what it was really worth. We all fall victim to that mis-interpretation from time to time.

But truthfully the harder part of the curve to guess at is the desirable+collectible upswing. When does it start? How fast does it rise? Does it plateau? There's an art to figuring that stuff out for sure.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

-TJ- said:


> Kijiji Ottawa is particularly nutty.... some people in this city have a very dellusional idea of the value of their guitars...
> 
> particularly funny is people selling old used strats for more than a new one costs now thanks to the recent Fender price drop!
> 
> Other people outright lie.... there was a snakeskin/copper custom shop Charvel that was on Kijiji Ottawa last week.... the guy was saying he paid $2200 for it last year.... except that was the very guitar which sold at Long and McQuade Ottawa for $999 durring their boxing day sale, it had chipped finish on the headstock... I could tell it was the very same guitar because I almost bought it at L&M lol granted he only wanted $1000 for it, so ultimately it was fair, but still found the necessity to lead people on as to its worth particularly funny


I don't normally reply to ads unless it's something I am interested in. But I have to admit, there are a few of times I have. The first case scenario is when people are flat out lying about an item. The second, and I am sure you guys have come across this, when a seller has reposted an ad several times, seems legitmately frustrated that an item isn't selling, and they curse everything from Kijiji to the buyers in their ad lol. In those cases I politely point out that they may want to research what the going used price for their item is and that they may have more luck after that. Awhile back I did sent a message to a guy who was doing a combination of both. He was claming the retail price of the amp was about $200 higher than it actually is, and he had his used price about $300 higher than what you would normally see the item listed for. He placed the ad at a lower price, and the item was gone a few days later so I am assuming it sold. The only reason I was motivated to point it out to him was (a) because of his frustration and (b) because I knew someone who might buy the item if it was a realistic price.

What I definitely don't agree with is sending someone a message calling them every name under the sun and acussing them of robbery. That's not really accomplishing anything except getting angry, and getting someone else angry.


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

Here is a reply I got from the typical Kijiji fan:

"Thanks for the offer ,but I think I'm gonna pass.I found a xxxx online in very good shape for $850.Factoring in the reissue year of yours ,and the dings,I think my strat is worth more.Thanks for the interest though.You should Kijiji it,You'll be amazed what you find.I bought a used mexi strat last week,traded it for a tokai les paul,and traded it for the strat yesterday.So it cost me $200 and some driving.Jackpot,lol!"

Doesn't care what he buys,as long as it can get him bragging rights.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

My personal favorite was from when I posted my Gibson Mapleburst R8. Here's the first reply I received...

"_[email protected] says: Wow, so you spent how much on a guitar that you never played?

So despite living in a world full of people starving, or walking around our own city stepping over people, you've somehow got an extra four grand kicking around to own a 'special edition' Les Paul (which, as a guy who has worked in a few guitar shops, knows isn't all that different from a standard les paul, certainly not two grand different) and a bottle of Maple Syrup.

Something tells me you rock out in your socks and khaki's in your basement on a Sunday afternoon before putting the tags back on and returning it to its case before the wife gets home. I guess that is somehow less pathetic than not playing it at all right.....right?_"


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## Dr.StephanHeimer (May 1, 2006)

I once listed a guitar on kijiji and craigslist (i'm not gonna mention what it was cause its sold and I don't need any hindsight as to whether or not it was too high or low etc). I listed it at $700 which and I was willing to negotiate down and or trade to make a deal. Some jackass north of T.O. (I live in Niagara Falls) emailed me with some long winded explanation of how it was modded (I wasn't hiding it) and how various other factors affected the price. After this long rant he offered me $100 if I deliver it. WTF!! I'm all for people making reasonable offers and trying to make a point but that's just ridiculous.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2010)

2manyGuitars said:


> My personal favorite was from when I posted my Gibson Mapleburst R8. Here's the first reply I received...
> 
> "_[email protected] says: Wow, so you spent how much on a guitar that you never played?
> 
> ...


Oh man! That's got crazy written all over it!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Ian and I have seen you play,haha.

I was interested in a Jackson limited run, and the guy was asking $2K or something like that. I posted pics on forums, found out it was a Drum City Guitar Land special run (custom yes, custom shop no) and it was going for $1450USD 3 years ago. He didn't know all this, and I ended up not buying the guitar. A week later, the ad is reposted with no price reduction. He went from probably not knowing and having gotten ripped off (if he was 2nd owner) or knowing full well and trying to rip someone else off. I hope no one bought it. It was a looker, but he was asking $1K too much.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2010)

Budda said:


> Ian and I have seen you play,haha.


Come to think of it: I could see him rockin' that LP in jeans, white socks. Really white socks.


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## jimmy c g (Jan 1, 2008)

do we dislike people who sell way too low as much as people who sell way to high? I dont, and have gotten great deals on the used sites around Victoria and Van so thats that, there are holes eveywhere, just try to avoid them


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## -TJ- (Aug 28, 2006)

two years ago, i was selling a 1999 Ibanez RG570 in minty condition with a deluxe TKL case.... all very nice, it cost me $1200 back in 1999..... my asking price was $575 (fair IMO) with the expectation that I would let it go for anything $475 and above....

I got an offer from a guy saying the going rate for these is $150 and linked me to a Ultimate Guitar forum review, which was vague and poorly written where the guy says he got a beat up old RG570 (or what he thought was one) for $120 USD.... the buyer insisted that the $150 would then be fair lol

I also sometimes get "I can offer $300" when my item is listed for $900.... and the long and mcquade trade in would be about $650.... then when i reply with no, I get the whole sad story about how their gear was stolen and I should be nice and give them a break...


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

-TJ- said:


> two years ago, i was selling a 1999 Ibanez RG570 in minty condition with a deluxe TKL case.... all very nice, it cost me $1200 back in 1999..... my asking price was $575 (fair IMO) with the expectation that I would let it go for anything $475 and above....
> 
> I got an offer from a guy saying the going rate for these is $150 and linked me to a Ultimate Guitar forum review, which was vague and poorly written where the guy says he got a beat up old RG570 (or what he thought was one) for $120 USD.... the buyer insisted that the $150 would then be fair lol
> 
> I also sometimes get "I can offer $300" when my item is listed for $900.... and the long and mcquade trade in would be about $650.... then when i reply with no, I get the whole sad story about how their gear was stolen and I should be nice and give them a break...


I have never had anyone give me sob stories before on Kijiji or CL. If people send an offer I am not interested in, I just poliltely reply telling them that. People rarely ever reply back, and if they do it's usually just a simple 'thanks for the reply' email. Some of the stories you guys have are incredible lol. If I had to deal with that sort of stuff, I'd probably be way more sour on Kijiji/CL as well.

I have said it before, but I think being outside a major city makes those sites a lot better. It's almost like a built in deadbeat filter in my case. I am within 30 minutes from at least 5 Kijiji/CL cities. So the only people that tend to come here are serious buyers. It's close enough for serious buyers, but not close enough for time wasters.


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## Howi (Feb 3, 2009)

http://www.guitarscanada.com/showthread.php?30704-Gibson-SG-Voodoo-very-nice-condition-1-000!!

I just got an offer from some douchebag on Kijiji. He asked if the neck was straight and if the frets buzz, then offered $500, delivered.

I replied saying the neck is straight and frets don't buzz. Then I asked him why he offered me the price of Epiphones for a special edition Gibson.

No reponses from him....

Howi


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

The Ottawa sites are the only ones I see where people ask for free guitars etc.... lots of low balling parasites in this town.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2010)

rollingdam said:


> The Ottawa sites are the only ones I see where people ask for free guitars etc.... lots of low balling parasites in this town.


Yup. I totally agree here. Toronto has/had a much more civilized CL scene. Reasonable prices, reasonable people. Ottawa is way out of whack.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

torndownunit said:


> I have never had anyone give me sob stories before on Kijiji or CL.


I currently have a guitar listed on Kijiji. The new price in 2004 was $3300 plus tax. I'm asking $2295 (but _am_ willing to go lower).
Here's what was waiting in my inbox last night.

"_This might seem like a really dumb question. but my husband is sick and always really wanted one of these, would you be able to take 1200? that is all I can afford.

Andria_"


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

I dunno. I'm in the GTA and I encounter ads asking for free guitars regularly. Or from people looking for quality gear but not wanting to pay much money for it.

Ottawa is not alone in this.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Maxer said:


> I dunno. I'm in the GTA and I encounter ads asking for free guitars regularly. Or from people looking for quality gear but not wanting to pay much money for it.
> 
> Ottawa is not alone in this.


I do see ads as well, but from the posts I have read on this forum regarding Ottawa and Kijiji/CL, they seem to be at a whole other level.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Halifax is LOADED...no...POLLUTED with low-ballers. You can put a 'like new' Les Paul Studio up for sale for $900 and you'll get people sending messages like:
"I'll give you a Washburn Paul Stanley and $150. Let me know." 

Then you'll get:
"will you trade for an XBox 360 and 4 games?" 

Even still:
"$700 cash today. Just tell me where to pick it up and I'll come right now"
I want to say "YOU tell ME where I can get one for $700 cash and I'll race you there"


I am always quite polite but what I really want to say is "Get ****ed!!!"

So...unless these maggots moved here from Ottawa 2 and a half years ago then Halifax is way ahead of Ottawa.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2010)

torndownunit said:


> I do see ads as well, but from the posts I have read on this forum regarding Ottawa and Kijiji/CL, they seem to be at a whole other level.


Ottawa doesn't have the volume Toronto does so the crud posts hang around on the front page longer.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

2manyGuitars said:


> "_This might seem like a really dumb question. but my husband is sick and always really wanted one of these, would you be able to take 1200? that is all I can afford.
> 
> Andria_"


So, thats a no then?

Andria.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

well what i've learned from this thread is that i should definitely be posting my instruments at above cost on Kijiji and if anyone complains i will just say, "hey that guitar is better than new cause now it has *MY AMAZING MOJO!*
see you in the funny papers...


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

bagpipe said:


> So, thats a no then?
> 
> Andria.


Definitely, since I know you _can_ afford it. :banana:


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## Jimi D (Oct 27, 2008)

smorgdonkey said:


> I am always quite polite but what I really want to say is "Get ****ed!!!"


I try to just delete the emails I get from the low-balling idiots, but every six months or so I just lose it and unleash on one of the douchebags via email... That's never a good plan though, 'cause then the low-rent bottom feeders get my (throw-away, selling crap) email address, and you can be sure they'll reply with some imbecilic defense of their stupidity... the whole thing just turns me off selling any gear via Kijiji... thank god for Spaceman - they make my life so simple...


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Dr.StephanHeimer said:


> I once listed a guitar on kijiji and craigslist (i'm not gonna mention what it was cause its sold and I don't need any hindsight as to whether or not it was too high or low etc). I listed it at $700 which and I was willing to negotiate down and or trade to make a deal. Some jackass north of T.O. (I live in Niagara Falls) emailed me with some long winded explanation of how it was modded (I wasn't hiding it) and how various other factors affected the price. After this long rant he offered me $100 if I deliver it. I'm all for people making reasonable offers and trying to make a point but that's just ridiculous.


Man, that is unbelievable!


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