# Clapton's latest...



## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

I know this will probably get deep sixed but I just had to share anyway. 😉









Eric Clapton claims 'hypnosis' behind COVID-19 vaccine push


Eric Clapton has claimed he was duped into getting the COVID vaccine by subliminal messaging on YouTube.




torontosun.com


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Man I'm telling you, he's losing it.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

He should be using Alcan aluminum for his hat, it's Canadian like his father.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Just another illustration of how people you really like can have stupid ideas, the same way people you really don't like can have good ones. It happens.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Chito said:


> Man I'm telling you, he's losing it.


Given what we know about his substance abuse and coupling it with his age, I don't think it should really be a secret at this point.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

The headline is a false lead in and triggers a derisive sentiment. And everyone reacts accordingly like silverfish when you turn on the light. And in the article they have a link to an article/hit piece about Prof. Mattias Desmet, and not the work itself, which is an interesting explanation of the 'hypnosis' and worthy of note.

“_So all this free floating anxiety is attached to, connected to, the object of anxiety indicated in the narrative. And there is a huge willingness to participate in the strategy to deal with this object of anxiety because in this way, people feel that they can control their anxiety and their psychological discontent better. So all this anxiety connects to the subject of anxiety, and there is a huge willingness to participate in the strategy and that leads up to something very specific. People suddenly feel connected again in a heroic struggle with the object of anxiety. So a new kind of solidarity, a new kind of social bond and a new kind of meaning emerges in society. And that’s the reason why people follow the narrative, why people buy into the narrative and why they are willing to participate in this strategy._“


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Buddy, there's a LOT more in the article to induce a double-take than simply the headline.


Okay Player said:


> Given what we know about his substance abuse and coupling it with his age, I don't think it should really be a secret at this point.


While it has been 30 years at this point, I'm confident the tragic loss of his 4 year-old son in 1991 was not exactly a gift to his mental health. I'm sure stuff like that stays with you. You don't lose a child that way, that young, and shrug it off.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

HighNoon said:


> The headline is a false lead in and triggers a derisive sentiment. And everyone reacts accordingly like silverfish when you turn on the light. And in the article they have a link to an article/hit piece about Prof. Mattias Desmet, and not the work itself, which is an interesting explanation of the 'hypnosis' and worthy of note.
> 
> “_So all this free floating anxiety is attached to, connected to, the object of anxiety indicated in the narrative. And there is a huge willingness to participate in the strategy to deal with this object of anxiety because in this way, people feel that they can control their anxiety and their psychological discontent better. So all this anxiety connects to the subject of anxiety, and there is a huge willingness to participate in the strategy and that leads up to something very specific. People suddenly feel connected again in a heroic struggle with the object of anxiety. So a new kind of solidarity, a new kind of social bond and a new kind of meaning emerges in society. And that’s the reason why people follow the narrative, why people buy into the narrative and why they are willing to participate in this strategy._“


The problem is he’s just regurgitating this mass formation »psychosis/hypnosis » idea that isn’t a thing:









Does "Mass Formation Psychosis" Really Exist?


Psychiatric terms shouldn't be misused to label our ideological opponents.




www.psychologytoday.com













Discredited 'mass formation psychosis' theory spreads COVID misinformation


The term is making the rounds online, but it isn't based on factual medical information. It's bunk.




www.cnet.com





Desmet is an antivax/anti lockdown clinical psychologist who uses psychological terminology to justify a political agenda. He has basically regurgitated/plagiarized the longstanding psychological »groupthink » theory with a 2021 spin. It is neither psychosis or hypnosis.





__





Groupthink


Groupthink is a phenomenon that occurs when a group of well-intentioned people makes irrational or non-optimal decisions spurred by the urge to conform or the belief that dissent is impossible. The problematic or premature consensus that is characteristic of groupthink may be fueled by a...




www.psychologytoday.com


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## YaReMi (Mar 9, 2006)

Chito said:


> Man I'm telling you, he's losing it.


He lost it some time ago. His autobiography got me quite excited few years back but turned out to be one of the worst ones I have ever read.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm not gonna be bothered reading about eric and his hypnosis.


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Haven't been a fan since his time in Cream so it's lost on me.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

zdogma said:


> The problem is he’s just regurgitating this mass formation »psychosis/hypnosis » idea that isn’t a thing:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know if you've listened to Desmet, but he speaks clearly and concisely, and expresses himself in a way that is easily understood. Where's the political agenda? People should have freedom of choice over what's put into their bodies.....lockdowns don't work for a variety of reasons.....the world has been lied to over and over again.....an open dialogue is important. Governments all over the world are putting the violent hammer down on it's people...... You mean that kind of agenda.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

HighNoon said:


> I don't know if you've listened to Desmet, but he speaks clearly and concisely, and expresses himself in a way that is easily understood. Where's the political agenda? People should have freedom of choice over what's put into their bodies.....lockdowns don't work for a variety of reasons.....the world has been lied to over and over again.....an open dialogue is important. Governments all over the world are putting the violent hammer down on it's people...... You mean that kind of agenda.


So, what accounts for the death rate differences in AUS, CAN and USA? Respectively, 124, 862, and 2,679 per million population, per https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries I'm sure you'd agree that the degree of lockdowns has to reflect in those numbers, wouldn't you? What, 2 years not a big enough sample?


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

mhammer said:


> Buddy, there's a LOT more in the article to induce a double-take than simply the headline.
> 
> While it has been 30 years at this point, I'm confident the tragic loss of his 4 year-old son in 1991 was not exactly a gift to his mental health. I'm sure stuff like that stays with you. You don't lose a child that way, that young, and shrug it off.


Hey Buddy, I'm sure there's a LOT more. Like I read the article. So what...it's his story about what happened to him. He feels he got played and didn't investigate enough or whatever. So what. The slant of the article is obvious. It's meant to ridicule him....that's what they do with people who don't go along with the narrative. But that's okay....you've gone along with it. You'll be safe.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

keto said:


> So, what accounts for the death rate differences in AUS, CAN and USA? Respectively, 124, 862, and 2,679 per million population, per https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries I'm sure you'd agree that the degree of lockdowns has to reflect in those numbers, wouldn't you? What, 2 years not a big enough sample?


I don't know. Australia's an island. Canada isn't as crowded as the U.S. People in the U.S. are obese, suffer from diabetes and progressive heart conditions, along with any other number of ailments. You mean the U.S. haven't done lockdowns.....unless they were rioting and burning down cities. You want a sensible reaction, look at Japan. They did quarantines, based on districts affected and something I strongly agree with....but not lockdowns. And they protected their seniors something we didn't do. They also, finally allowed their doctors to prescribe what they thought was best to help in treatments(look out here comes ivermectin). And they didn't kill their economy. Our realistic inflation rate is over 5%, and theirs is at 1%. What about the death rate in India, and don't forget they're used to nasty diseases every few years. Basically it comes down to this....you can't control a respiratory virus. It comes and goes in waves. And you can't vaccinate your way out of a pandemic which is what Australia, Canada and the U.S. have done. And those results, especially with a failing vaccine, are pretty self evident.


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## Arek (Jan 24, 2009)

So, the cancell crowd is after Clapton again…..
Why so eager to accuse, judge and condemn?

I actually sort off agree with Clapton on that.
How else would you explain person telling other person: “…i wish you get COVID and die…”, “…they have choice: get vaccinated, or starve to death under the bridge…”

Mass madness?
Mass stupidity?
Mass “hypnosis”?

”…there are no conspiracy theories - they are spoiler alerts now…”


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

GuitarT said:


> I know this will probably get deep sixed but I just had to share anyway. 😉
> 
> 
> 
> ...


NOW you're sorry, eh? 😉


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

This really hurts the dad music movement. It's going to set us back decades.


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## Arek (Jan 24, 2009)

keto said:


> So, what accounts for the death rate differences in AUS, CAN and USA? Respectively, 124, 862, and 2,679 per million population, per https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries I'm sure you'd agree that the degree of lockdowns has to reflect in those numbers, wouldn't you? What, 2 years not a big enough sample?


If you don’t distinguish between death with COVID and death caused by COVID…

Statisticly if I go for a walk with my dog, each of us has 3 legs.

”There are lies, fukin lies and statistics…”


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

mhammer said:


> NOW you're sorry, eh? 😉


Just sorry I didn't stock up on popcorn first. Looks like I'm going to need it. 😁


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

After all the ridiculous stuff about Clapton keeps surfacing I always enjoy seeing the pretzels that his apologists try and twist into to either justify it or turn Clapton into a victim.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Arek said:


> Statistically if I go for a walk with my dog, each of us has 3 legs.


How does this work statistically if you take *two *dogs for a walk?


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

HighNoon said:


> I don't know if you've listened to Desmet, but he speaks clearly and concisely, and expresses himself in a way that is easily understood. Where's the political agenda? People should have freedom of choice over what's put into their bodies.....


Great! When the unvaccinated wind up in hospital with critical COVID complications due to their incessant belief that their "freedom" usurps all other societal responsibilities....Perhaps they should pay out of pocket for the time and space they're taking from all those who really need the space in hospital...you know...un-freedom issues like serious car accidents or cancer treatment.....freedom has its responsibilities......it's not free.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

If oviduct (covid spell checked lol) morphed into a super deadly virus that killed within hours, with no effective treatments other than being vaccinated, would the human race advance as a species?


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Oviduct tape will save us.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Wardo said:


> I'm not gonna be bothered reading about eric and his hypnosis.


He was better as Derek and his dominos


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## DrumBob (Aug 17, 2014)

I just can't take 'Ol Slowhand seriously anymore. Next, he'll be saying little green Martian aliens created the pandemic.


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## Arek (Jan 24, 2009)

nonreverb said:


> Great! When the unvaccinated wind up in hospital with critical COVID complications due to their incessant belief that their "freedom" usurps all other societal responsibilities....Perhaps they should pay out of pocket for the time and space they're taking from all those who really need the space in hospital...you know...un-freedom issues like serious car accidents or cancer treatment.....freedom has its responsibilities......it's not free.


By that thinking, same should apply to rock climbers, coca cola drinkers, owners of cheap cars, those buying non-organic food, electricians over pencil pushers, long hair people….
Let’s not segregate people.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Arek said:


> If you don’t distinguish between death with COVID and death caused by COVID…
> 
> Statisticly if I go for a walk with my dog, each of us has 3 legs.
> 
> ”There are lies, fukin lies and statistics…”


Oh, come on, is your mistrust of the medical system that deep? Seriously and with my best wishes, seek help.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Just get the fucking vaccine and end this diseased nightmare. No it doesn't stop anyone from getting the disease. It does dramatically reduce the effects and severity of the disease. This takes all the pressure off the hospitals and allows regular things like cancer surgeries, heart transplants, simple life saving treaments that are all stopped because some fucking idiots decided to turn protecting society into a political tool for division. The thinking is if you wear a mask and protect yourself from covid you are not a man. This is the stuff of Darwin theory.


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## Arek (Jan 24, 2009)

keto said:


> Oh, come on, is your mistrust of the medical system that deep? Seriously and with my best wishes, seek help.


I have worked in the system and used it extensively (unfortunately). Over the years aI have learned to always seek second opinion and educate myself before making any decisions.
I think that’s reasonable.
Just like buying a guitar online.


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## Arek (Jan 24, 2009)

player99 said:


> Just get the fucking vaccine and end this diseased nightmare. No it doesn't stop anyone from getting the disease. It does dramatically reduce the effects and severity of the disease. This takes all the pressure off the hospitals and allows regular things like cancer surgeries, heart transplants, simple life saving treaments that are all stopped because some fucking idiots decided to turn protecting society into a political tool for division. The thinking is if you wear a mask and protect yourself from covid you are not a man. This is the stuff of Darwin theory.


Just have open mind and think if there is a room for some doubt.

In the past you believed that:
1. masks are useless and bad
2. masks are good, double masks better
3. lockdowns are effective
4. all we need is 70% of people to be vaccinated (herd immunity)
5. vaccinated will not get sick, nor spread the virus
6. take 2 shots and life will be normal…maybe 3….or 4…..
7. it is all fault of people opposing coerced/mandatory vaccination
8. Clapton is bad for speaking his mind baaaaaaaaad! baaaaaad!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

nonreverb said:


> Great! When the unvaccinated wind up in hospital with critical COVID complications due to their incessant belief that their "freedom" usurps all other societal responsibilities....Perhaps they should pay out of pocket for the time and space they're taking from all those who really need the space in hospital...you know...un-freedom issues like serious car accidents or cancer treatment.....freedom has its responsibilities......it's not free.


Mom says "You should put on a hat, and wear a warmer coat when you go out. It's not so terrible now, but when you come back later, it will be bitter cold. I don't want you to get sick. They've been issuing frostbite warnings."
Teen says "I'll be fine. And stop telling me what to do! I can take care of myself without your interference!"
Teen wakes up the next day, sick as a dog. "Mom, can you make me some soup? And could you write me a sick note for school?".


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

player99 said:


> Just get the fucking vaccine and end this diseased nightmare. No it doesn't stop anyone from getting the disease. It does dramatically reduce the effects and severity of the disease. This takes all the pressure off the hospitals and allows regular things like cancer surgeries, heart transplants, simple life saving treaments that are all stopped because some fucking idiots decided to turn protecting society into a political tool for division. The thinking is if you wear a mask and protect yourself from covid you are not a man. This is the stuff of Darwin theory.



I got the vaccine. I wear a mask everywhere. I practice safe distance. I still got Covid. I was sick for a week. Just like a family member that didn't get the vaccine. Got the about the same intensity of sick. 
Right now unvaccinated people can't go to restaurants or bars. Unvaccinated people can't either. Why the fuck did I get the vaccine?
Since this pandemic started I committed to keeping my self very healthy by working out and eating a proper healthy diet. I dropped 60 pounds. I feel that goes alot farther in protecting me than the vaccine. I will not be getting the booster as I've lost all confidence in these vaccines. I'm still in the same boat as the unvaccinated. We're supposedly at about 80% vaccinated yet people villainize the unvaccinated like they're the cause of this pandemic. If you're vaccinated why do you fear the unvaccinated. Because the vaccination hasn't changed anything. I trusted in it and lost.
As far as Clapton, well I'm not a big fan although he does have some music I like a lot. If any of the artists that I am a big fan of fell off the sanity cliff it really makes no difference to me in how I feel about their music. Their personal life has nothing to do with it. I'm not in to this "teeny bopper" mentality where I obsess about artists personal life.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

I'm surprised that this thread is still alive. Wasn't it decreed that there will be '_no more covid talk_'?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

guitarman2 said:


> I got the vaccine. I wear a mask everywhere. I practice safe distance. I still got Covid. I was sick for a week. Just like a family member that didn't get the vaccine. Got the about the same intensity of sick.
> Right now unvaccinated people can't go to restaurants or bars. Unvaccinated people can't either. Why the fuck did I get the vaccine?
> Since this pandemic started I committed to keeping my self very healthy by working out and eating a proper healthy diet. I dropped 60 pounds. I feel that goes alot farther in protecting me than the vaccine. I will not be getting the booster as I've lost all confidence in these vaccines. I'm still in the same boat as the unvaccinated. We're supposedly at about 80% vaccinated yet people villainize the unvaccinated like they're the cause of this pandemic. If you're vaccinated why do you fear the unvaccinated. Because the vaccination hasn't changed anything. I trusted in it and lost.
> As far as Clapton, well I'm not a big fan although he does have some music I like a lot. If any of the artists that I am a big fan of fell off the sanity cliff it really makes no difference to me in how I feel about their music. Their personal life has nothing to do with it. I'm not in to this "teeny bopper" mentality where I obsess about artists personal life.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

I think that questioning things is good: let's face it, if Galileo had not questioned the orthodoxy, we might still believe that the sun revolved around Earth. Prevailing wisdom is not eternal, just prevailing. But, based on MANY MANY YEARS of evidence, vaccines help us to avoid deadly contagions. Smallpox? All but gone. Polio? All but gone. Tuberculosis isn't around much any more. Measles? Mumps? Rubella? Largely gone. But in this case, people think a shot in the arm to prevent a highly communicable illness is going to give them 5G and make them love Bill Gates. Why can't the people who disbelieve in many years of medical science put the same amount of effort into "doing the research" on stuff they are told by politicians rather than, you know, scientists and doctors.

I took that headline with a grain of salt, just like I read headlines from the Star, CBC, or anywhere with a grain of salt. It's click bait, and major news media are businesses, and as such, cater to their audience. *It has always been this way*. It is similar with the echo chamber of social media, where algorithms feed you more of the same in greater concentrations over time. That said, some are more reputable than others, and I tend to regard what they say with less salt than others. Just like when my wife (she's highly intelligent, and not prone to hysterical reactions to things she sees on Facebook) mentions some medical finding, I ask where it came from. Johns Hopkins? Yes. Harvard? Yes. some person on FB? No.

I am triple vaxxed, and would get another if I thought it would help. I have asthma and high blood pressure. Better to be cautious and wrong than incautious and wrong. Or sick. Or worse. Until the prevailing wisdom is disproven, it's what we've got.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)




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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Arek said:


> By that thinking, same should apply to rock climbers, coca cola drinkers, owners of cheap cars, those buying non-organic food, electricians over pencil pushers, long hair people….
> Let’s not segregate people.


They're not currently jamming up ICU's and never will.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

laristotle said:


> I'm surprised that this thread is still alive. Wasn't it decreed that there will be '_no more covid talk_'?


Sorry, I missed the memo.


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## leftysg (Mar 29, 2008)

tomee2 said:


> He was better as Derek and his dominos





greco said:


> How does this work statistically if you take *two *dogs for a walk?


Is this thread what happens when the dominos fall?


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I got the vaccine. I wear a mask everywhere. I practice safe distance. I still got Covid. I was sick for a week. Just like a family member that didn't get the vaccine. Got the about the same intensity of sick.
> Right now unvaccinated people can't go to restaurants or bars. Unvaccinated people can't either. Why the fuck did I get the vaccine?
> Since this pandemic started I committed to keeping my self very healthy by working out and eating a proper healthy diet. I dropped 60 pounds. I feel that goes alot farther in protecting me than the vaccine. I will not be getting the booster as I've lost all confidence in these vaccines. I'm still in the same boat as the unvaccinated. We're supposedly at about 80% vaccinated yet people villainize the unvaccinated like they're the cause of this pandemic. If you're vaccinated why do you fear the unvaccinated. Because the vaccination hasn't changed anything. I trusted in it and lost.
> As far as Clapton, well I'm not a big fan although he does have some music I like a lot. If any of the artists that I am a big fan of fell off the sanity cliff it really makes no difference to me in how I feel about their music. Their personal life has nothing to do with it. I'm not in to this "teeny bopper" mentality where I obsess about artists personal life.


Because the majority of cases in ICU's are the unvaccinated. Sure, there are many who are asymptomatic and others that have mild symptoms but the evidence shows that if anyone is going to get really sick or die, it's the unvaccinated....and they are the ones currently clogging up the ICU's. That's what this vaccine mandate exercise is all about. I fully expect to get COVID at some point (I may have already had it). I would rather get the vaccine and duke it out at home instead of an ICU. One less body there preventing someone else who's situation is more complicated and dire than mine.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

nonreverb said:


> They're not currently jamming up ICU's and never will.


Nor has somebody else's broken leg or diabetes from somebody else caused me to have a broken leg or diabetes. 

It is unbelievable that two years later we still have to deal with this nonsense.

TG.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

nonreverb said:


> Because the majority of cases in ICU's are the unvaccinated. Sure, there are many who are asymptomatic and others that have mild symptoms but the evidence shows that if anyone is going to get really sick or die, it's the unvaccinated....and they are the ones currently clogging up the ICU's. That's what this vaccine mandate exercise is all about. I fully expect to get COVID at some point (I may have already had it). I would rather get the vaccine and duke it out at home instead of an ICU. One less body there preventing someone else who's situation is more complicated and dire than mine.


I don't trust what we're being told. I suspect that the statistics are being manipulated because for some reason they want us all vaccinated. Even if the measures taken to accomplish this are more harmful than not having the vaccine. I didn't start out thinking this way. But how much bull shit do I need to be fed before I start to question. Of course thats what they want. For us not to question.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

player99 said:


>



I'm sure there are vaccinated people with no underlying conditions that have died from Covid. But you will never see them report even one case. If we are so protected with our vaccines open up the fucken economy completely and only lock out the unvaccinated.
My opinion is the vaccine should always be a choice and no measures should be taken to force people in to taking it. What happened to "my body, my choice"?
We're facing possible food shortages due to forced trucker mandates, employee absenteeism, government programs to pay people to stay home and not work causing further employee shortages. When do they come out with a vaccine to protect me from starvation? Yeah maybe I should wear my tin foil hat. But then if I'd said 3 years ago that we'd be where we are you'd have thought I should be locked up.


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## teleboli (Aug 19, 2009)

player99 said:


>


I'm gonna miss that guy man


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> I don't trust what we're being told. I suspect that the statistics are being manipulated because for some reason they want us all vaccinated. Even if the measures taken to accomplish this are more harmful than not having the vaccine. I didn't start out thinking this way. But how much bull shit do I need to be fed before I start to question. Of course thats what they want. For us not to question.


Sorry, but I'm not going to answer to conspiracy theories. The data is there.
Besides, we all have our mumps, tetanus, rubella and measles vaccines...what's the difference? Is that a conspiracy too?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> I got the vaccine. I wear a mask everywhere. I practice safe distance. I still got Covid. I was sick for a week. Just like a family member that didn't get the vaccine. Got the about the same intensity of sick.
> Right now unvaccinated people can't go to restaurants or bars. Unvaccinated people can't either. Why the fuck did I get the vaccine?
> Since this pandemic started I committed to keeping my self very healthy by working out and eating a proper healthy diet. I dropped 60 pounds. I feel that goes alot farther in protecting me than the vaccine. I will not be getting the booster as I've lost all confidence in these vaccines. I'm still in the same boat as the unvaccinated. We're supposedly at about 80% vaccinated yet people villainize the unvaccinated like they're the cause of this pandemic. If you're vaccinated why do you fear the unvaccinated. Because the vaccination hasn't changed anything. I trusted in it and lost.
> As far as Clapton, well I'm not a big fan although he does have some music I like a lot. If any of the artists that I am a big fan of fell off the sanity cliff it really makes no difference to me in how I feel about their music. Their personal life has nothing to do with it. I'm not in to this "teeny bopper" mentality where I obsess about artists personal life.


Like I keep saying, there are only two questions to ask: 1) Do you want this virus to go away? and 2) What steps do you think could/should be taken to expedite that?

One of the ongoing obstacles has been the widespread failure to appreciate *probability*. Does vaccination COMPLETELY eliminate the possibility of getting infected? No. Does it dramatically reduce the probability? Absolutely. Indeed, the evidence for that reduction in risk has to be unambiguously demonstrable before permission is granted by regulatory bodies for even emergency use as a treatment. Will the degree of risk reduction vary with a host of other factors? Yes. That's why there are recommended times between injections, as well as professional debates regarding the potential need for boosters. And of course, ALL immune-related treatments will depend on the unknown particulars of an individual's immune system.

Does masking of this type or that type or even any type reduce the likelihood of contracting or spreading a pathogen? Yes. That's why surgical teams and paramedics wear them, even in non-pandemic times, and we're glad they do. Does staying apart from others reduce transmission? Yep. That's why we had leper colonies, even thousands of years ago. It's why we have separate wards and hospital rooms for those with certain diseases. And it's why you can't attend school if you're still contagious with anything, whether it's pink-eye, impetigo, or a common cold.

Sometimes, people win big on the 6/49 with the first and only ticket they've bought. Sometimes, a work group only eventually gets to win big after kicking in to their group ticket purchase for a year. The only thing they share in common is that they all bought tickets, and that none of the non-purchasers ever won anything. Is there a formula to assure winning? Buying more tickets for any given draw is likely to improve chances, but also does not assure anything, unless the _volume_ of tickets is substantial.

But the over-arching thing to appreciate is that probability of infection from a contagious disease is reduced most by *collective and cooperative action*.  My risk of getting infected is not only reduced by my taking of risk-reduction steps, but also your taking of risk-reduction steps, so that neither of us are carriers OR victims. Multiply that by billions. It is the lack of cooperation, under the premise of you-do-your-thing-and-I'll-do-mine-because-of-you-know-rights-and-stuff, that has prolonged this. You can shut down a hospital when the incidence of antibiotic-resistant infections becomes unacceptable. A populace, not so much. There, you have to rely on cooperation and compliance, because enforcement doesn't work so well. Sadly, cooperation is in very short supply. Which is pretty much how we got here. The probabilities were pretty good.

We are currently seeing a "truckers' revolt" against mandated vaccination for being able to go back and forth across the Canada-U.S. border. Again, does vaccination absolutely assure, like an invisible force-field, that no trucker will be carrying any pathogen? No. But let's say we relied on an advisory to engage in the constellation of behaviours that evidence says will dramatically reduce getting infected or transmitting, and the universal cooperation of all truckers to abide by that. Realistic? Yep, and monkeys might fly out of my butt. We can never know that all preventative measures are being followed. Indeed, as study after study has confirmed for decades now, even those with the very best of intentions in any direction, can overlook/neglect their digressions from their intended practice (I'm really trying to diet. I don't understand how I keep putting on weight.). Not because they're deliberately deceptive, but because they don't always monitor their actions. What we CAN know is that, even if they aren't always paying attention, and if we can't follow their every action, a vaccinated driver has at least THAT much risk reduction by virtue of being vaccinated. If anyone has a more effective approach to risk-reduction than that, please pipe up.


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## terminalvertigo (Jun 12, 2010)

laristotle said:


> I'm surprised that this thread is still alive. Wasn't it decreed that there will be '_no more covid talk_'?


Correct.
Gotta stay off the topic folks.


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