# Les Paul Style Guitar Suggestions?



## Samurai (Mar 31, 2008)

Hi all,

I am looking at getting a new guitar. I currently own a MIM Fender Strat, but I am now interested in getting a guitar for hard rock and metal playing. Personally, I have always like the Les Paul style of guitar, so I am leaning towards something like that. My price range is around $600...

I was looking at the Epiphones, but I have heard some not so great things about them, so I thought I should ask for some advice from those who know a heck of a lot more about this stuff than I do...

Any advice on what to look for or try out?

Thanks!


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## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

For what you want in your price range, you might be limited to a used Epiphone. $600 isn't going to get you a great Les Paul.


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## Rocco (Jan 8, 2008)

Look at the agile line from Rondo, very good guitar for the money.


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## Samurai (Mar 31, 2008)

Rocco said:


> Look at the agile line from Rondo, very good guitar for the money.


I was curious about those...I was looking at the 3100, based on recommendations on another forum, but then the discussion devolved into an Epiphone vs. Agile vs. anything else, and all it served to do was confuse me!


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I have an Epi LP that I bought used for a VERY reasonablre price..... seems fine to me. 

My friend has several Agiles...they are very nice !!

Not much help to you, I guess...just don't be too quick to decide against Epi's and/or Agiles

Cheers

Dave


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

I've owned Agile and Epi LP's. The Agile's are fantastic guitars for the money, but you have the obvious dilemma that you can't try one before you buy it.

Both Fretcity and JDS Guitar Shack who are posters on here have some nice options. The Dillion's at JDS look super nice. Both are stores are in Canada too which is an advantage for shipping.

http://www.jsdguitarshack.com/dillion_guitars/dxc-600-650/dillion_lp_guitars.html
http://www.fretcity.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=411&category_id=57

With some work, you could likely find a used Gibson LP Studio or Faded for not much more money as well. Although from my experience, I liked the Agile I had as much as any Studio I have played.

If I was looking for a budget LP, I'd personally be giving the Dillions a close look. They seem to offer a ton of bang for the buck.


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

What about Gibson? Save up a few more dollars and you're in used LP Studio territory. If you're willing to buy off eBay, you might be able to get one for $600 US, then shipping & customs on top of that. With our dollar being as strong as it is right now, it's something to look into.


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

There was a nice wine red and chrome studio ('02 ish?) for sale on this forum only a couple of weeks ago for around $850 cdn IIRC. For the couple of hundred extra, that would be my first choice.

Swervin:smile:


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## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-...phone-56-Gold-Top-Les-Paul-W0QQAdIdZ179405617

Epiphone Goldtop with P90's. $450.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I'm selling an AL3100 with hardshell case for $400 (+ shipping if you want it). I used to own a les paul studio, and this guitar (to me) feels just as high quality. The neck profile is slightly slimmer than the Gibson '59 carve (we A/B'd it with a late 90's? LP custom).

Let me know if you're interested


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## Skin (Feb 18, 2009)

You may be able to find a used ESP EC-1000 for $600-$800. I just had a bone nut installed and my guitar tech was very impressed with it. I find it easier to play than my Gibson and it would be great for metal especially if you go with the EMG equipped version.


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## Irvine (Oct 11, 2008)

Have you played a Les paul? the reason I ask is a Les Paul plays and feels very different from a Strat, takes a bit of getting use to, I have a Les Paul and one feels quite awkward after playing the other. on the other hand, maybe it's just me, lol. just sayin'.


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## jcon (Apr 28, 2006)

Skin said:


> You may be able to find a used ESP EC-1000 for $600-$800. I just had a bone nut installed and my guitar tech was very impressed with it. I find it easier to play than my Gibson and it would be great for metal especially if you go with the EMG equipped version.


I'll second this option... I've had my LTD EC-1000 for a few years. It's quite a bit thinner than a LP which makes it a bit more comfortable when playing for extended periods of time. You may want to get some hands on experience with one first to make sure it feels right for you. I've seen them selling for $800 brand new from LA Music's ebay store (in Canada).

Cheers,
Joe


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## Stonesy (Oct 7, 2008)

Save a few more pesos and get a MIJ. Long neck tenon, ABR, super thin finishes, craftsmanship and mojo are a bit more than $600, and worth it.


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

Stonesy said:


> Save a few more pesos and get a MIJ. Long neck tenon, ABR, super thin finishes, craftsmanship and mojo are a bit more than $600, and worth it.


Yep. MIJ's are definitely worth looking into. Just be careful when choosing the right one. There are also MIJ's that are absolute firewood.


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## waynekp (Aug 9, 2008)

*Suggestion*

As a student, I am on a limited budget as well. I actually looked into Hagstroms for a little bit. Hagstrom makes a model that looks very similar to a LP called the Super Swede. I actually quite like the sound of them. I believe it was about $575, but that was last summer. There's a store in Kitchener called Grand River Music. They dont have much selection, but they do have Hagstroms.

Another option, like they say, is to save up a few more bucks and look into Epiphone. For about $800 or $900, you could have an Epiphone Black Beauty or Les Paul custom. I actually quite like the sound of both of those as well. I really enjoyed them either plugged into a Marshall MG, or a Vox. To say that will have the Gibson snobs screaming, but you have to play the guitar, the important thing is to find something YOU like. $900 might get you into the Gibson Les Paul Studio territory, and maybe I`ll let the others argue over whether you`re better off with a high end Epi or a low end Gibson, that question is unresolved in my mind.

I`ve also heard people say that Tokai makes incredible copies - they were so good, that apparently Gibson sued and got them shut down. They don`t sell their guitars in Canada anymore, but you can occasionally find a used one online or at a store that sells used guitars.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

waynekp said:


> As a student, I am on a limited budget as well. I actually looked into Hagstroms for a little bit. Hagstrom makes a model that looks very similar to a LP called the Super Swede. I actually quite like the sound of them. I believe it was about $575, but that was last summer. There's a store in Kitchener called Grand River Music. They dont have much selection, but they do have Hagstroms.
> 
> *Another option, like they say, is to save up a few more bucks and look into Epiphone. * For about $800 or $900, you could have an Epiphone Black Beauty or Les Paul custom. I actually quite like the sound of both of those as well. I really enjoyed them either plugged into a Marshall MG, or a Vox. To say that will have the Gibson snobs screaming, but you have to play the guitar, the important thing is to find something YOU like. $900 might get you into the Gibson Les Paul Studio territory, and maybe I`ll let the others argue over whether you`re better off with a high end Epi or a low end Gibson, that question is unresolved in my mind.
> 
> I`ve also heard people say that Tokai makes incredible copies - they were so good, that apparently Gibson sued and got them shut down. They don`t sell their guitars in Canada anymore, but you can occasionally find a used one online or at a store that sells used guitars.


If you do look into Epiphone, there are a wealth of used ones out there. I personally don't see much point in paying $800 new for one when you can probably find the exact model you want used for around $450-500 with some work.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

Take a look at the Michael Kelly guitars. The Patriot is their LP style.


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## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

since you already have a guitar you know the best thing to do is play as many as you can to find a keeper. yeah there are lots of great MIJs out there these days, but I don`t know how many are available to you in Edmonton, I have some Edwards from the Duncan series, a Cool-Z made by Fujigen, got an `80s Aria Leopard for about $100.oo, paid less than $250.oo for my old Burny...so they`re out there just look around.


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## Overt1 (Aug 31, 2009)

+1 to agiles. especially the 3x00 series in that price range. as stated above, too bad you can't see or play it first but the positive reviews on it heavily outweight the negatives


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## hookedonphonics (Jan 17, 2010)

In that price range you might be able to find a good Godin LG, either with 2 P90's, or 2 humbuckers. Good option to consider especially if you're playing a Strat right now, the feel won't be that different. If you look harder you can probably find an LG EMG, I think it has an 81/85 combination in there. They're discontinued though...

The Agile would also be a good option, they seem like quality guitars and I've heard nothing but good things about them. Definitely check out the Hagstrom too, a buddy of mine just ordered one (Viking) after a lengthy searching process. I've never had good experiences with Epiphones in terms of quality so I think there are better options out there. But give everything a chance and see which one works best for you!


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2010)

Agile 3100, change the pups to a Seymour Duncan or Dimarzio PAF and play. I don't play my Gibson anymore. Can't go wrong for that $500.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

perhaps just a bit high for your price range, but well worth checking out are HERITAGE guitars.
made by former Gibson employees at the old Gibson factory on Parson Street In Kalamazoo Michigan.
world class, hand made guitars at a very affordable price.
if you check out Wolff Guitars online you can often find deals on gently used Heritage Les Paul style guitars for very reasonable prices.


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## Samsquantch (Mar 5, 2009)

six-string said:


> perhaps just a bit high for your price range, but well worth checking out are HERITAGE guitars.
> made by former Gibson employees at the old Gibson factory on Parson Street In Kalamazoo Michigan.
> world class, hand made guitars at a very affordable price.
> if you check out Wolff Guitars online you can often find deals on gently used Heritage Les Paul style guitars for very reasonable prices.


 A BIT high? That'd be way over his price range, even used.


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## Phlegethon (Dec 18, 2009)

for that price I'd recommend the agile al3x00 as a few people have done already . . .I think that when push comes to shove they sound just as good as an LP would. 

here's some straight up comparison vids and IMO, the agile came out on top. both guitars were stock running into a marshall with a laney cab

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDaxIQNkirk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6ZSS-GIRA8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf-a90tp15I

the big downside to the agile is that you can't test it out in person however I've heard (like many people here) that doing things like returns is of no issue and they don't mess around. and if you got the agile, buying a pair of pickups of your choice would give you a fantastic sleeper


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Skin said:


> You may be able to find a used ESP EC-1000 for $600-$800. I just had a bone nut installed and my guitar tech was very impressed with it. I find it easier to play than my Gibson and it would be great for metal especially if you go with the EMG equipped version.


Don't forget the ESP/LTD EC 400 AT. They show up on the second hand market once in a while and are the same quality as the EC 1000 minus some of the aesthetic things and minus the locking tuners. I got one in new condition for $400 US including a hard shell case a few years ago. I saw a couple recently on forums or eBay too so keep that in mind. I definite winner.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I'm holding my AL3100 right now. The guitar is the same quality as my gibson les paul studio in terms of fit, finish and feel (slightly different neck profile, still very comfortable). The tone is different due to lower output pickups, but a $100 pickup swap will get this guitar right into whatever area you need it to be - if it can't get you there already. Mine is for sale simply because I can't afford to keep it and have 2 custom guitars coming in.

I did buy the guitar in person from a local dude, and these things are a steal new or used. I would (and might) get another one, highly recommended over epiphone, and most guitars in the $500 price range. A new Gibson LP runs you $1600. A used one runs you $800-$900 in good condition. A used AL3100 runs you around $400. No comparison in my mind, I'd get the Agile unless you *need* "Gibson" on the headstock.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

Samsquantch said:


> A BIT high? That'd be way over his price range, even used.


its all relative.
a good basic used Heritage LP model can be found for about the same as a used LP studio. 
although a Heritage LP is a much better guitar than an LP studio IMO.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm not sure if anyone else had mentioned this but in my opinion, you would do well to check out this place.

http://fretcity.com/shop/cart.php


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

six-string said:


> its all relative.
> a good basic used Heritage LP model can be found for about the same as a used LP studio.
> although a Heritage LP is a much better guitar than an LP studio IMO.


where are you seeing this pricing?!?!?!?


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

i have my sources


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## Stewart Gatz (Jan 16, 2010)

Are Nine said:


> What about Gibson? Save up a few more dollars and you're in used LP Studio territory. If you're willing to buy off eBay, you might be able to get one for $600 US, then shipping & customs on top of that. With our dollar being as strong as it is right now, it's something to look into.


Yup, this would be my suggested avenue to pursue. I've LP Studios locally in Toronto on Craigslist & kijiji sell for $700 or so CDN.


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## the_fender_guy (Jul 22, 2008)

I'd look for used guitars on Craigslist & kijiji and even Fleabay as well as on classifieds like the one here on HC..
Les Paul Studios can occasionally be had for low prices. A year ago I saw 2 go in the $500 range one was green on TGP and the other on eBay was Wine Red with a headstock repair. Both had SH4 and SH2 pickups.. 
I would also look at used Ibanex Artists(AR50/AR100). I have an '82 AR100 which is a killer guitar.
These often sell easily within your price range and you get a lot of guitar for your $$$.

Try to look at guitars that you can try out and ask questions here before you go to look if you need to know what to look out for.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Are Nine said:


> What about Gibson? Save up a few more dollars and you're in used LP Studio territory. If you're willing to buy off eBay, you might be able to get one for $600 US, then shipping & customs on top of that. With our dollar being as strong as it is right now, it's something to look into.


I agree. $750-$850 for like new is not every day but it is a reality. Gibson Les Paul Studios are one of my favourite. 



six-string said:


> i have my sources


Nobody else does!!


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## darkjune (Mar 27, 2008)

try the cort zenox, gust don't buy the cheaper one.If $600 is you limet the you should be able to buy a upgraded cort zenox.here is a video of one for you.these guitars necks do seem to worp easy so keep it in a dry place if you can.

[video=youtube;WvjlJHN0T-4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvjlJHN0T-4[/video]


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

darkjune said:


> try the cort zenox, gust don't buy the cheaper one.If $600 is you limet the you should be able to buy a upgraded cort zenox.here is a video of one for you.these guitars necks do seem to worp easy so keep it in a dry place if you can.


Don't buy Cort at all. There is a video made by Cort workers in Korea. THAT is a horrible sweat shop. Abuse everyone who works for you then start up a plant in a cheaper country get some of the staff trained at the existing Korea factory, make money hand over fist for years and years and then shut down the Korean plant. *No Cort for me*.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

smorgdonkey said:


> Don't buy Cort at all. There is a video made by Cort workers in Korea. THAT is a horrible sweat shop. Abuse everyone who works for you then start up a plant in a cheaper country get some of the staff trained at the existing Korea factory, make money hand over fist for years and years and then shut down the Korean plant. *No Cort for me*.


Cort makes just about every import you see in stores, FYI...


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

smorgdonkey said:


> Nobody else does!!


well perhaps they aren't looking hard enough.
this one i purchased from Wolf guitars used and it was pretty much mint condition.
cost $900 + shipping.
which is about what i sold a used Gibson Studio for at 12th fret not long ago.
the Heritage is a much better built guitar IMO.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

Budda said:


> Cort makes just about every import you see in stores, FYI...


Well, I don't buy any NEW imports so I can stick with my decision to not support them. It isn't unionized workers who get paid too much - it is the non-unionized workers who don't get paid fairly. Times have changed a lot and as irrelevant as unions have become that is overshadowed by how the governments of working people in many countries hang them out to dry.

Here's a link to the first video anyway...there is a series of them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LpB1E4EE7k&feature=related


six-string said:


> well perhaps they aren't looking hard enough.
> this one i purchased from Wolf guitars used and it was pretty much mint condition.
> cost $900 + shipping.
> which is about what i sold a used Gibson Studio for at 12th fret not long ago.
> the Heritage is a much better built guitar IMO.


 Ok...I stand corrected...but I've NEVER seen one for sale locally so that I could do that comparison for myself...but I've recently seen Gibson Les Paul Studios offered for as little as $600 + shipping with some nicks and dings. $900 is getting 'up there' with a budget of $600.

...and I HATE the Heritage headstock about as much as I hate the Epiphone one...regardless of what is written ON it.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I'm not a fan of the Heritage headstock, but if the guitar itself is better, I will overlook it. People complain about the Agile 3x3 headstock - my eyes barely register seeing anything that's not the pickups, pickup selector or strings/neck haha


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

smorgdonkey said:


> Well, *I don't buy any NEW imports* so I can stick with my decision to not support them. It isn't unionized workers who get paid too much - it is the non-unionized workers who don't get paid fairly. Times have changed a lot and as irrelevant as unions have become that is overshadowed by how the governments of working people in many countries hang them out to dry.
> 
> Here's a link to the first video anyway...there is a series of them:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LpB1E4EE7k&feature=related


Not trying to debate, but imports have been made in the Samick factory for years and years. Epihones aren't made there now, but were for quite awhile. If you own a guitar made in Indonesia or Korea any time in the last 15 years it could have been from the Samick plant because most were made there, and it's not like companies advertised it. You were more likely to get an import from the Samick factory then then now (eg Epiphone has their own plant in China).


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> Not trying to debate, .........You were more likely to get an import from the Samick factory then then now (eg Epiphone has their own plant in China).


 I'm not reallt stating anything about the location of build or the quality just that I am against Cort's ethics/business practices.

I mus say my apologies for derailing the topic - that was comopletely my fault.


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## WannabeGood (Oct 24, 2007)

Have a look at the Ibanez ART and\or the ARC series. Nice quality, decent electronics, very affordable.

Regards,


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

smorgdonkey said:


> I'm not reallt stating anything about the location of build or the quality just that I am against Cort's ethics/business practices.
> 
> I mus say my apologies for derailing the topic - that was comopletely my fault.


I am not talking about quality either. I was only pointing out that anyone who bought ANY import in the last 15 years could have been buying something from the Cort factory or Samick factory without knowing it. You seemed to be making a distinction between old and new imports (stressing you won't buy NEW imports), when it's almost more likely a newer one WON'T be from those factories since companies are now opening their own factories.


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## darkjune (Mar 27, 2008)

smorgdonkey said:


> Don't buy Cort at all. There is a video made by Cort workers in Korea. THAT is a horrible sweat shop. Abuse everyone who works for you then start up a plant in a cheaper country get some of the staff trained at the existing Korea factory, make money hand over fist for years and years and then shut down the Korean plant. *No Cort for me*.


 
good point, I didn't know that. If I had I wouldn't of recommended it.thanks for the info.


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## darkjune (Mar 27, 2008)

I found this on the net about cort, so judge for yourself.

For more than 1000 days, Korean guitar workers and their supporters have protested against their illegal mass firing by Cort/ Cor-tek Guitars.
After dedicating decades of their labor in unventilated rooms full of fumes and solvent, enduring forced overtime and below-minimum wage pay, incurring injuries and lung diseases, and undergoing the abuse of their managers, these workers unionized to finally get minimum wage.
Only a short time later, they found themselves padlocked out of their factory in Deajon and were forced to sign resignation papers. It turned out that Cort had moved its operations overseas, for much cheaper and non-unionized labor in Chinese and Indonesian factories.
*Why does this involve any of us?* Cort Guitars does not make the bulk of its profit from its own brand of guitars, but through contracts to produce the budget imports of brand-name guitar companies, including Fender, Gibson, Ibanez, G&L and Parkwood. In fact, Cort dominates 30% of the global budget guitar market. Thus, the CEO of CORT has become a billionaire, one of the richest men in Korea and the 120th richest man in Korea. With $78 billion dollars in profit over a decade, raises in managerial salaries after the mass firing, and a low debt ratio, the National Labor Relations Commission and Seoul Administrative Court found Park’s claim of financial hardship to justify the mass firing to be false. Their case is now in the Supreme Court of Korea.
Cort Guitars relies on the global market for its profits, beyond Korean borders . That is why the struggle of the Korean workers cannot take place in Korea alone, but must be joined by anyone who believes that music cannot be made under terrible conditions, and that workers everywhere, whether in Korea or anywhere else, deserve to be treated with dignity.
The Korean guitar workers want to return to the factory and work. Making guitars is their identity and their means of livelihood. They have tried everything that they could in Korea to resolve their struggle: they have conducted press conferences, engaged in hunger strikes, held sit-in protests at the two factories, held concerts in solidarity with cultural activists and musicians, used legal means all the way up Korea’s Supreme Court– and still, Cort Guitars has not budged.


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## darkjune (Mar 27, 2008)

six-string said:


> well perhaps they aren't looking hard enough.
> this one i purchased from Wolf guitars used and it was pretty much mint condition.
> cost $900 + shipping.
> which is about what i sold a used Gibson Studio for at 12th fret not long ago.
> the Heritage is a much better built guitar IMO.


your right, going for used he sould be able to find what he is looking for.Just a few months age I a saw used les paul for $600 in good shape, so just look around and look for deals.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> I am not talking about quality either. I was only pointing out that anyone who bought ANY import in the last 15 years could have been buying something from the Cort factory or Samick factory without knowing it. You seemed to be making a distinction between old and new imports (stressing you won't buy NEW imports), when it's almost more likely a newer one WON'T be from those factories since companies are now opening their own factories.


Oh, I see...by "NEW imports" I meant that I don't buy imports that are not already owned by another consumer. I realize that by purchasing used imports that I am still supporting the market. Anyway, most of the Korean imports that I have are LTD although I do have a Fender, a G&L, an Ibanez. 

My most recent purchase was a USA guitar. I'll be very careful in my purchases from now on as I do not want to contribute to that equation.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

smorgdonkey said:


> Oh, I see...by "NEW imports" I meant that I don't buy imports that are not already owned by another consumer. I realize that by purchasing used imports that I am still supporting the market. Anyway, most of the Korean imports that I have are LTD although I do have a Fender, a G&L, an Ibanez.
> 
> My most recent purchase was a USA guitar. I'll be very careful in my purchases from now on as I do not want to contribute to that equation.


Ya again, I wasn't trying to be confrontational or anything. I was more just curious what you were saying. I do take issue at times to people who 'talk the talk' regarding an issue like this though. You have to admit there are a lot of people who crtitsize one product being made overseas, then have a home full of other products that were likely made in the exact same working conditions.

You also have to remember that not all Asian factories = human rights violations. To use the Epiphone plant as an example again, from anything I have read they are a decent operation. I do think things are going to start to go more in that direction at some point as well. I could be overly optimestic, but I think some of the bigger companies see that at some point they could end up being accountable for what goes on in those factories with the way information spreads today.


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## Duster (Dec 28, 2007)

I'll give a +1 to the Hagstrom. I have a Swede, which is the shorter scale length than the Super Swede. The Swede is Gibson-length, the Super Swede is Fender-length.

For the money, they're great guitars. Search the forum and you'll find a couple of threads. I've put my review into a couple of those threads. They're LP-style, but they're also significantly different from an LP. They have a personality all their own, and they sound great.

The Michael Kelly Patriot is another good potential, and Godins make great guitars in the lower price ranges.

--- D


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Duster said:


> I'll give a +1 to the Hagstrom. I have a Swede, which is the shorter scale length than the Super Swede. The Swede is Gibson-length, the Super Swede is Fender-length.
> 
> For the money, they're great guitars. Search the forum and you'll find a couple of threads. I've put my review into a couple of those threads. They're LP-style, but they're also significantly different from an LP. They have a personality all their own, and they sound great.
> 
> ...


What are the weights like on the Hagstroms? I have only seen photos of them. They look like a 'big' guitar when you see photos. Like they would be heavy.

My only other input is that I think all the suggestions in the thread are good... but you should still play a bunch and see what you like. My own experience is that just because it's a Gibson it doesn't mean it's a better choice. It depends on the person. I have owned 2 LP studios that I thought were great guitars. But, the Agile 2500 gold top I owned and the old MIJ LP copy I used to gig with in my last band were just as good IMO. The Agile was as nice construction wise and any LP I have played in fact. In the end, it always turns out I am just not an LP guy lol. But I do have some experience owning them.


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## Duster (Dec 28, 2007)

I couldn't tell you the weight, exactly, except that it's somewhere in the range of "heavy" to "very heavy". It's not any bigger than Gibson, physically, but it does seem to weigh more. I've never had them on a scale, but the Hagstrom does seem to be noticeably heavier. I'd have to assume it's either denser wood, less routing, or different neck materials? That being said, the Hagstrom is well balanced and comfortable to play. The belly cutout on the back is comfortable, and the neck tends towards the slim side. Physically, they're not particularly big, pretty standard in size and thickness.

--- D



torndownunit said:


> What are the weights like on the Hagstroms? I have only seen photos of them. They look like a 'big' guitar when you see photos. Like they would be heavy.
> 
> My only other input is that I think all the suggestions in the thread are good... but you should still play a bunch and see what you like. My own experience is that just because it's a Gibson it doesn't mean it's a better choice. It depends on the person. I have owned 2 LP studios that I thought were great guitars. But, the Agile 2500 gold top I owned and the old MIJ LP copy I used to gig with in my last band were just as good IMO. The Agile was as nice construction wise and any LP I have played in fact. In the end, it always turns out I am just not an LP guy lol. But I do have some experience owning them.


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## smorgdonkey (Jun 23, 2008)

torndownunit said:


> You also have to remember that not all Asian factories = human rights violations.


Indeed...and China's Mapex plant is supposed to be fantastic with ISO certification and everything.


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