# What a difference a speaker makes!



## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

There's a Traynor DG15R (http://www.traynoramps.com/products.asp?type=4&cat=56&id=354) which is really a pretty good little solid state amp for the purposes of students in the lesson studio (I usually use the YCV50 or play acoustic). However, I have to hear a lot (and I do mean a lot) of cheap electric guitars with icepick pickups and crapola electronics. These axes may be the pride and joy of the owners, but that doesn't negate my ear fatigue. No amount of EQ will tame some of these guitars. So, I spoke with Terry at McBride Loudspeaker Source (www.loudspeakers.ca) and after reviewing the online catalogue decided on the Emminence 10" Lil' Buddy. McBride shipped it on Friday, I got it on Monday, and had it installed within a half hour of getting it. 

Icepick tone is gone, it's all smooth and creamy, whether it's clean or overdriven. Way more tone than the stock Celestion Tube 10. It may seem like overkill to swap speakers in such an amp, but it's what I have for student use, and I can save the expense of replacing the amp by replacing the speaker. A seriously good speaker. 

It'll be interesting to see whether the more experienced players with better guitars notice the change.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Interesting, kinda confirms what I always thought and that the amp is not the weak point in any cheap combo..


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Makes one wonder doesn't it. Pretty reasonable amp, lousy driver.

One kid has an awful Axe brand Strat-like guitar with the pickups from hell. As expected, it was easily tamed by this new speaker. Quite a relief.

I don't see the worst guitars until Friday, then I'll be certain, but it sounds great so far.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

Emminence makes some nice speakers, that's for sure.

I wonder how the L'il Buddy would sound paired up with my Ramrod.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I'm curious to know why Terry suggested the L'il Buddy over the Delta Demon (I'm sure that he had good reason).

Was the Delta Demon his alternate suggestion?

Cheers

Dave

Edit...I just read that a closed back cab is recommended for the Delta Demon....that is likely the answer.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

greco said:


> I'm curious to know why Terry suggested the L'il Buddy over the Delta Demon (I'm sure that he had good reason).
> 
> Was the Delta Demon his alternate suggestion?
> 
> ...


Exactly. Terry was right on top of that little detail.

Peace, Mooh.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Yeah, speaker swaps can do wonders for an amp. My YGL-3 had it's stock Marsland speakers in it for a good long time and I recently swapped them out for a pair of Celestion G12T-75s. These weren't the speakers I wanted for the amp, but I got a good deal on them, so I couldn't pass them up and I'm pretty glad I didn't. My amp sounds a lot warmer and less "brittle" than before and it's taken on a really "woody" quality that I love. I had to change some settings on it because the neck pickup on my LP sounded a bit dark, but my Strat really sounds awesome through it now. The bridge pickups doesn't have any of the ice-pick harshness anymore.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Mooh...I'm very interested in this particular speaker.

Can you describe the tones you (and your students) are getting from it. 

I have read up on it and I'm not sure if it is going to be very "dark" in general or if it just seems that way when you read reviews on it.

I usually play clean with maybe just a bit of distortion from a Dano Transparent Overdrive. I tend to prefer humbuckers...FWIW

Like you, I'm not a fan of too much treble (especially of the icepick variety !!)...but I understand how you would/could have a lot more treble in your life as a teacher than I would ever be able to comprehend.

Thanks

Cheers

Dave


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

greco said:


> Mooh...I'm very interested in this particular speaker.
> 
> Can you describe the tones you (and your students) are getting from it.
> 
> ...


Dave,

I hope this will help.

Dark, but not too much so, at least in this amp. It breaks up smoothly, with a nice smooth transition to distortion when it does. I'm not a fan of active EMGs for example, but it sounds very nice with them anyway. I prefer old school pickups (Fender style singlecoils, and old humbuckers) and the Lil' Buddy allows them to sound bright without being strident or icepicky. It's true that the stock Celestion was a cheap match for an amp that far outclassed it. This Emminence speaker essentially has the same range as the original except the tones are rounder and more organic with a little more treble roll-off. It actually sounds closer to a tube amp (note I didn't say it makes it sound just like a tube amp). Even the (short spring) reverb sounds better, more three dimensional. All the frequencies are still there, just better balanced, open, and predictably smooth from low to high. One of my metal freak students who has the same amp immediately noticed the change and kept saying "holy crap" and asked what it will cost him to make the change to his. 

One youngster with a Yamaha Strat-style guitar noticed a change (surprised the heck out of me that he'd notice). He likes his clean and described it as more acoustic sounding. Hmmm...The cleans are fatter, more tube-like, sparkly without sounding shrill. I don't normally use this amp (I use the YCV50 usually), but I've plugged it in a couple of times. 

I'm interested in trying one in the YCV20 too. That'll tell the tale.

Peace, Mooh.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks Mooh...I appreciate the time you took to write a detailed review. 

It will be interesting to see what you think once you have tried it in your YCV20.

I will be using it in a 1 x 10" cab with a Champ clone (head) and will try it with my SF Princeton Reverb (as an extension speaker at first....I might also put it (directely) in the PR just to see).

Once I have tried it, I'll post my findings and the comments of others that hear it at my place.

Thanks again.

Dave


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

No sweat Dave!

I tried the amp this morning using my Godin Belmont strung with D'Addario Chromes (flatwound 11s) and tuned down a half step for some quasi-new-age-pseudo-jazz-reflection. Sounded pretty sweet, jazzy and warm, but it'll still rock out with the Tele.

Peace, Mooh.


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## infinitemonkey (Jan 20, 2008)

Yeah, I have a DG15R and more often than not I have it plugged into an external cab with the built in speaker turned off. The amp really is much better than its speaker.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

infinitemonkey said:


> Yeah, I have a DG15R and more often than not I have it plugged into an external cab with the built in speaker turned off. The amp really is much better than its speaker.


Maybe it was easier or cheaper to equip it with the internal speaker defeat button than it was to use a better speaker. LOL! Actually, it's a great feature that I wish more amps had. 

Peace, Mooh.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

If you look back to the "golden era" of tube amps, you'll see that there were tons of amps treated as "also rans" that really were not all that different in design from the big sellers and the ones the vintage crowd drools over. I mean, there isn't all THAT much you can do differently with a pair of 12AX7s, pair of 6V6s and standar output/power transformers.

So why were some relished while others were ignored and still sit gathering dust (or mildew) in somebody's basement? Often the reply is that the manufacturer simply took a decent amp and paired it up with a lousy choice of cab and/or speaker. Simple as that.

Presently, a great many "practice amps" are designed to cut every conceivable manufacturing cost corner imaginable. The parts cost what the parts cost, and often there is no room to move with respect to those costs. So the next place to cut costs is in building and shipping. Cabinets cost more to ship when they are larger and heavier. So, you will find a great many practice amps have open backs (saves on shipping weight), and are shallower (front to back) than they ought to be. The result is that, even when paired up with a reasonably suitable speaker (and I'm not suggesting they all are), the sound is thin. I took an old TDA2030-based Gorilla amp that I bought cheap, and was able to both close up the back a bit more, and move the baffle about a 1/2" forward in the frame (increasing the overall internal volume of the enclosure). Gave the amp a lot more muscle.

So yeah, a speaker change can do wonders, but sometimes it's the cab too.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Just put an Eminence Red Coat Governor in the YCV20. At first blush it's going to break up about like, but smoother than, the Celestion I took out of it. The cleans are as sweet and just as organic sounding as the Lil Buddy. The real test will be at a major practice or gig, yet to come.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Once again, the speaker in my little Traynor Bassmaster XM50 Traynor Amps: Bass Combos went for a crap. The first one lasted through a lot of heavy pounding, all 5 string (low B) playing and finally gave up. The second one, an identical direct replacement, only lasted through relatively light play at quieter gigs and sessions at home. Both were light cheap Eminence branded speakers, though they certainly didn't appear any better than the cheap crapola one finds in the industry. This amp however, is the hands down best small bass amp I've ever had, durable, great sounding (I've used to line out a lot), and easy to carry. Pretty much a pro amp in practice size.

A call on Wednesday to Q-Components loudspeakers & audio products resulted in an Eminence 10" BP-102 being delivered on Thursday. As expected, the extra quality sounds much better, smoother, fatter low end, more vocal sounding upper range, and smoother string to string transitions. It would have been nice to test this with my beloved Warwick, but it's long gone, so I made do with the OLP/Musicman fretted, and Godin fretless (both 5 strings). Very satisfying.

Peace, Mooh.


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

Any update on the Eminence Red Coat Governor in the YCV20?


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## TubeStack (Jul 16, 2009)

Yep, speakers make a _huge_ difference in your tone. I find I can't play with anything other than Greenback and/or G12H30 types, these days. Although, I've never tried an Alnico... but yeah, major improvements can be made, with the right speaker.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Greg Ellis said:


> Any update on the Eminence Red Coat Governor in the YCV20?


Oh yeah. Much smoother tone, especially with singlecoils. As I guessed, it starts to break up at about the same volume. Much less spikey/shrill/ice-pick-to-the-ears like. Having said that, the highs are still sparkly/creamy. Like most Eminence speakers, there's also that smooth string to string feel, and more vocal like tone. I broke it in by using it as the drummer's guitar monitor (he sometimes has trouble hearing me), and leaving it pretty much cranked for 4 sets and a couple of practices.

(Fwiw, there was an identical YCV20 (except with the stock speaker) at the Stratford L&M this morning for about $250. Good deal for a lightly used 20 watt tube amp, imho.)

Peace, Mooh.


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## Greg Ellis (Oct 1, 2007)

That's a crazy-good price, assuming all is well with the amp. It's the black one, right? Not the wine red?


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Greg Ellis said:


> That's a crazy-good price, assuming all is well with the amp. It's the black one, right? Not the wine red?


Yup, the black one. Likely had been a rental (mine was too when I bought it, though they had to run the serial numbers of their stock to figure out which was and wasn't used, they were in such good shape). Mine needed re-tubing (I had some around) and a better speaker, though I could have got along with it stock. 15watts, not 20 as I think I said earlier.

Peace, Mooh.


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## The Kicker Of Elves (Jul 20, 2006)

Mooh said:


> (Fwiw, there was an identical YCV20 (except with the stock speaker) at the Stratford L&M this morning for about $250. Good deal for a lightly used 20 watt tube amp, imho.)
> Peace, Mooh.


Aww, man, I just paid $400 for a used first gen YCV20 about a month ago. kqoct

It was way too bright, retubed it (12DW7, 5751, new 12AX7 in pre-amp, new JJ EL84s) and put an Eminence Cannabis Rex in it. Big improvement...it's a lot smoother now.

Be nice if I had only paid 250 tho...


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Just put an Eminence Red Coat Governor in a Traynor DG30D. Very nice, surprisingly close to the tone from the YCV20 with the same speaker (literally, I took it out of one for the other, so it's nicely broken in), at least using Strats. There's not much clearance between the amp chassis and the speaker frame, maybe 1/4". I tried a Red Coat but it wouldn't fit without contact between the amp chassis and the speaker frame, though I tried playing it for a few minutes and it sounded incredible.

I put the Red Coat in the YCV20 but I haven't plugged it in yet. I'll report later.

Peace, Mooh.


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