# Anybody here have Bitcoin?



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I'm curious...what made you buy it? what do you think the potential is for it? Does it scare you at all?
Its been an amazing investment for many, but its not something I can wrap my head around and would like to know more about it. While the tax free aspect is very interesting, I always thought of it as the currency people used to buy drugs with on Silk road lol....


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

No ... but I did just notice the other week that the corner bodega now has a bitcoin ATM (that's a bit , no pun intended, confusing, cuz I don't get why that would be required since it's not a physical currency and you can do it on your phone or comp, but there it is).


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

I've listened to dozens if not hundreds of hours of discussion on CNBC on the subject, and have some online friends who were fairly early miners on another forum.

I still don't really understand it. One analyst yesterday said the likely top is about double from where we are, in around a year.

My daughter texted me yesterday that her friend (she's 23, assume friend is about same) became a millionaire Weds night due to bitcoin.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

keto said:


> I've listened to dozens if not hundreds of hours of discussion on CNBC on the subject, and have some online friends who were fairly early miners on another forum.
> 
> I still don't really understand it. One analyst yesterday said the likely top is about double from where we are, in around a year.
> 
> My daughter texted me yesterday that her friend (she's 23, assume friend is about same) became a millionaire Weds night due to bitcoin.


that's amazing, because even with its huge run, she would have still had to buy a lot of it (for a young person) at some point. I hope she takes some off the table, just in case.

I cant say I understand its value going forward ie does it have any legal/legit purposes beyond buying drugs, or smuggling wealth between country borders? And then theres the hacking potential. It kind of feels like a big pyramid scheme. sometimes regulation is a good thing...but that would defeat its purpose.


----------



## Guest (Dec 8, 2017)

I heard a story on the radio a coupla' weeks ago about a guy who went to the dump to try and find 
his old computer that he tossed out because he forgot that he had a shitload of bitcoin on it.


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I was sitting in a pub with some acquaintances last night who were well invested in it.

Apparently it made quite a jump yesterday.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

keto said:


> My daughter texted me yesterday that her friend (she's 23, assume friend is about same) became a millionaire Weds night due to bitcoin.


Well, not unless she's sold it. 

I've known people who were rich for a few months and then ............ not so much. And there is not much backing this up, from what I can tell. No buildings to sell, no patents to farm out, no IP to lease. If I owned any, I would have never made it this far without bailing, TBH.

But, alas, I couldn't buy any. I'm still trying to unload some tulips.


----------



## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

I thought about it a while back, but it was just about the time that dedicated mining rigs were hitting the market and people were starting to get serious about it setting up big operations and they still weren't all that valuable. At the time the return on investment for mining rigs, power etc the uncertainty around security and it starting to attract government scrutiny didn't seem worth the effort. Guess I missed the boat but hindsight is 20-20


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

ZeroGravity said:


> I thought about it a while back, but it was just about the time that dedicated mining rigs were hitting the market and people were starting to get serious about it setting up big operations and they still weren't all that valuable. At the time the return on investment for mining rigs, power etc the uncertainty around security and it starting to attract government scrutiny didn't seem worth the effort. Guess I missed the boat but hindsight is 20-20


I'm in the same boat...too many concerns and too late in the run. But I'm fascinated by it.  My dental hygienist and her hubby bought some a few years ago and thinks they'll be able to pay for their kids educations with it.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Of course, the question is how long to stay in. Without anything besides 'belief' backing it up, if/when it collapses, it will go quickly. I'd be looking at the market every few seconds if I held any. 

But there's me, thinking about technical aspects in finance. I have a buddy quite into it that tells me that's a very flawed way of looking at the value of a company. But that's the only way that makes sense to me. And that's why no one ever comes to me for financial advice.


----------



## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

When I hear bitcoin I think of the dark web. Or hostage sites, we have your info locked, pay up or lose it. And I forget how many Ashley Madison emails I got(after they were hacked) requesting bitcoin or else. LoL


----------



## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

I read a story the other day about a guy that paid something like 10000 bitcoin or something for 2 pizzas back in the day. They'd said it would be worth like a billion dollars now. Talk about buyers remorse


----------



## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

High/Deaf said:


> But, alas, I couldn't buy any. I'm still trying to unload some tulips.


ROFL!


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

So, CBOE futures trading in bitcoin starts Sunday 6 pm Lots of CNBC talk today about what that could do to is value, from stabilizing it as has happened with some commodities when futures started trading, to encouraging more hacking to try drive down the value as this is the first time you can short it (via options).

They also talked about other virtual currencies, one analyst just got back from Europe and was paid in and paid for most things with Etherium (sp?), and saw almost no bitcoin exchanged. And there are many others.

It’s not bitcoin itself that gets hacked, but the wallet (storage) and exchange sites that get hacked and ripped off.

Still tempted to do some mining for one of the lesser valued coins, on spec. More research required.


----------



## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Diablo said:


> I cant say I understand its value going forward ie does it have any legal/legit purposes beyond buying drugs, or smuggling wealth between country borders?


The only legit reason I've seen for it (unless you're the tax evasive type) is if you're in some backwater country where the real legit currency could fold tomorrow. Then supposedly you'd be safe because you had bitcoin instead.
Of course the bitcoin could fold tomorrow too.


----------



## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Don't know too much about this stuff but thats not gonna stop me from riding the wave.
I bought some dogecoin and litecoin recently and made a good return over the last 24 hrs with the litecoin. very volitile stuff and you never know when to hold or when to fold em. and it trades 24 hrs a day. there have been some late nights lol. bitcoin is too expensive now, altcoins are your ticket. 

Where are you guys trading on? I found this site coinsquare, great interface, fees are a bit steep I find when I get a quote to sell.


----------



## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

From what I've read, the engine software behind the Bitcoin is the key asset and will derive into something valuable.

The concept is good: eliminate bank and financial institution fees when trading. Think about buying and selling gear with a US resident - no currency conversion fees and getting full purchasing power with your money.

One fear I heard is that governments, similar to the financial institutions, will regulate Bitcoin which will take away the main attraction of Bitcoin and removing an intermediary in a transaction.

I think the concept is interesting (I do not own any Bitcoin) and with the power of people and being fed up paying transaction fees, some cryptocurrency concept will eventually come to fruition. The risk with Bitcoin and like many other new platforms, is that the 1st ones coming out of the gate typically don't make it and someone else comes in with some tweaks and a more accepted platform (Facebook comes to mind).


----------



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I studied it a lot in the early days trying to understand it, I got a fairly good idea about what it is, how it's attained (mined) and how it's used or traded. It is true that in it's early days the drug trade took full advantage of it. But it has been cleaned up a lot over the past few years and is slowly becoming a legitimate way of doing business. Exchanges are popping up all over the place and it is possible now to just buy tiny pieces at a time. ATM's are becoming more popular and it's now getting much easier for legitimate businesses to accept it as payment. The massive rise in the value of them is being driven mainly by speculators right now and it's when that stops should you start to worry. It's going to settle at some point, when is the question. Same as the dope stocks. They are insanely over valued and sooner or later will come back to reality. There will be millionaires made, but there will be more that lose everything. It's not something to play with unless you really know what you are doing and are willing to gamble and pay attention to what's happening. Like everything else, the government will eventually get involved. They will not sit back and be cut out of the action. Once that happens it will kill the speculative nature of it's value. It will still be a great way to complete transaction globally, but the investment/speculating side of it will be gone.

One thing I learned many years ago (the hard way) was that there is a big difference between investing and speculating. It's two separate games.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

I may be wrong, but I think that's the currency you use to buy stolen guitars, artwork, slaves, and babies to screw?


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

That comment wasn't a thread ender, was it?



Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


----------



## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

I read a lot about that crap and came to the conclusion that it is virtual money invented for illegal reasons and could vanish in the haze with some dark net crash or pseudo-crash should someone pull some plugs. Should this happens, great criminality would survive (probably following some vendetta) but what about the little guys taking that as Santa's new gift or retirement plan ? We already have so many near-retired or retired who lost their money in apparently fantastic deals... Not for me guys. And should my bank goes in it, I would get the few I have out of there...


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Had some. Went in with my brothers and sister a few years ago. Each of us kicked in $1000 and the older bro bought, mined, what ever a bunch. He cashed them in last week and a tidy sum appeared in one of my bank accts.. Not too sure how he did it and don't really care.


----------



## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I have a bit of coin--but not much--I spent most of my change a week or so ago...
Does that count?


----------



## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Just an fyi, things have taken a dive in the last 24 hrs. My strategy has been to buy when things go for a shit. 
Just bought my first bitcoin, not much .1234567 of a coin (approx 2k @ $16092/coin). Kinda wish i didnt just transfer my litecoin winnings to my bank account last week, coulda bought more bitcoin! 
Instead the wife thinks i'm buying us a trip somewhere sunnyMJF$# . Typical woman, "hey you have money, here let me show you how to spend it"

Everything else is down too, litecoin, dash, dogecoin, bitcoin cash, ethereum. Get it while its not so hot. I figure bitcoin has a better chance of recovering back 40-50% easy, which is not huge gains but compared to stock market its pretty damn good. When it hits 24-25k again (it was at that price 2 days ago) I'll probably sell.

Anyone else been at this for a while? Like I said earlier, Im pretty novice (got into it a month ago) and really dont know shit about it. But thats not going to stop me from making money.


----------



## Captn Platypus (May 27, 2017)

A friend/ex sent me some back when they were $30/ea. 

Thanks to that fork or whatever, I also ended up with some bitcoin cash. I like to try to trade around the different currencies and see what happens (small amounts). I might cash one of the two out when I go to upgrade my vehicle in a couple months. Or maybe not. Still doesn’t seem like real money to me. Heh.


----------



## colchar (May 22, 2010)

My brother mentioned on Christmas day that he owns some crypto-currency but I didn't ask which one.

What I don't get about Bitcoin is the mining thing and how you can convert it into actual cash.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)




----------



## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

keto said:


> So, CBOE futures trading in bitcoin starts Sunday 6 pm Lots of CNBC talk today about what that could do to is value, from stabilizing it as has happened with some commodities when futures started trading, to encouraging more hacking to try drive down the value as this is the first time you can short it (via options).
> 
> They also talked about other virtual currencies, one analyst just got back from Europe and was paid in and paid for most things with Etherium (sp?), and saw almost no bitcoin exchanged. And there are many others.
> 
> ...


I’ve made more bad decisions than good with investments but right away I can tell that buying futures in Bitcoin would be the worst possible investment. Ultimately your Bitcoin is a complicated number, betting on the future value of a number when computers are calculating more of them every day is a terrible idea in my opinion. 

And kudos to whomever made the tulip comment. For anyone who didn’t catch the meaning, look here: Tulip mania - Wikipedia


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Moosehead said:


> Just an fyi, things have taken a dive in the last 24 hrs. My strategy has been to buy when things go for a shit.
> Just bought my first bitcoin, not much .1234567 of a coin (approx 2k @ $16092/coin). Kinda wish i didnt just transfer my litecoin winnings to my bank account last week, coulda bought more bitcoin!
> Instead the wife thinks i'm buying us a trip somewhere sunnyMJF$# . Typical woman, "hey you have money, here let me show you how to spend it"
> 
> ...


What do you see as the catalyst for bitcoin to rise again?
Some investments go down and keep going down. This is what worries me about it as an investment. It's kind of cultish and a lot of its run lately is fuelled by FOMO, which is a bad investment discipline. I'm less bullish on it now that there's other crypto options....seems like it's going to "split the vote".


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

How many times do I gotta post my f'n graphs? Kidding. Kind of.

Anyway, I just found out that my 20 something year old nephew in-law sold all his bitcoin when it hit $1200. He's pretty upset about it. He'd be a multi-millionaire right now. I'd be sad as hell if he wasn't already so minted (daddy money).

Still, it's all he does for money and I totally respect that he has done it on his own. He found 3 bitcoins in old computers and cashed out $50k not too long ago. If I checked my computers I'd likely find second rate porn that I probably paid for.

Derail: Do you guys remember that girl who was the first to have cameras streaming throughout her house? Just streaming her entire life? she was on a bunch of talk shows. I wonder if that's still up.


----------



## LexxM3 (Oct 12, 2009)

Just picked some up, seemed like a good deal.


----------



## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Bitcoin Store (Dollar Store for the well-heeled)?


----------



## Guest (Jan 4, 2018)

Looking for guitar amp. Must accept btc/ltc/eth only | Amps & Pedals | London | Kijiji
Look for a guitar amp. Let me know what you have and how much youre looking to get. 
Must accept payment in bitcoin litecoin or ethereum only.


----------



## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Today's edition of La Presse + delivers an "opinion" written by Nouriel Robini, teacher at Stern School of Business, New York University about these alternative moneys and blockchains : moneys lost from 80% to 99% of their value or disappeared this year, chainblocks are excel pages run by a few cartels (for example from China, Russia or Georgia) which inflated administrative fees... So, the whole thing would be fraud with no way to get away from it.
I do not know the guy and the value of his opinion, but the information he provides did not really surprised me : I do not believe in magics !


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Adcandour said:


> Derail: Do you guys remember that girl who was the first to have cameras streaming throughout her house? Just streaming her entire life? she was on a bunch of talk shows. I wonder if that's still up.


Jenny Cam. I've never looked at her site (serious), but I remember her on David Letterman years ago and that's how I heard about her.


----------



## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

Fell under 5k$ last week, and further to 4k$ this week...
Minors are quitting !
Bitcoin bankrupcy pending ?


----------



## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

The transactions are too inefficient. Great for laundering or the dark web, nowhere stable or liquid enough for daily transactions. 

Sent from my H3223 using Tapatalk


----------



## BorisSutherland (Jun 4, 2020)

It's a great investment, that's what made me get into it. I don't know what will happen in the future, but now you can make a lot of money by trading. It's not only about bitcoin but about all the cryptocurrencies and if there are other bitcoin enthusiasts here, they will totally agree with me. Unlike the majority that invests only in BTC or ETH, I invested also in EOS and I have high hopes about this. I know that many won't agree with me or say that this is too risky, but no risk no money, so we'll see.


----------



## Doug Gifford (Jun 8, 2019)

I don't understand bitcoin and have no money to gamble, so that's that. I'm reminded of Stephen Leacock's story of Jefferson Thorpe, the barber, in _Sunshine Sketches of a Small Town_.

Delphi Complete Works of Stephen Leacock (Illustrated)


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> I was sitting in a pub with some acquaintances last night who were well invested in it.
> 
> Apparently it made quite a jump yesterday.


$13,000 and change Canadian.
Lots of things now that you can buy with the "coins". Even games and real estate.
What Can You Buy With Bitcoin? [5 Places You can Spend Today]
They are getting easier to cash too. Seems there's a place called Coin Nerds in Mississauga that's on Kijiji here with a few other places too.

Learn How To Convert Bitcoin To Cash | banks.com


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Anyone know of a guitar shop that accepts crypto?

Been mining for quite some time now and want to spend some coin in January


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Adcandour said:


> Anyone know of a guitar shop that accepts crypto?
> 
> Been mining for quite some time now and want to spend some coin in January


No, we got rid of ours a while ago. There seems to be quite a few of the ATM's around here run by different companies like this in sports bars, money exchanges, places like that.








BitNational Cryptocurrency Trading Platform & Bitcoin ATM Network


Buy Bitcoin with BitNational instantly and securely. Buy, sell or trade Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, Ripple and over 20 other cryptocurrencies. Buy Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin and Bitcoin Cash easily using a network of over 150 Bitcoin ATMs located in Calgary, Vancouver, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Regina.




bitnational.com




Not too sure what's out there if you don't have bitcoin.


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Bitcoin fell off my radar a while ago, even though there's a convenience store near me with one of the machines. I still don't have a clue what it is. 

What's going on with it these days? Did it tank out or is it doing well?


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

Some analysts are calling for big upside. I’ve never owned any, but should throw a few bucks in an ETF or something. Seems like a reasonable enough bet to me.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I think this falls under, "if it's too good to be true...". It's illogical that Bitcoin has any value or will hold it. It's not a company that makes or sells things. It's imaginary money. I could invent whosawhatsit dollars and if you agree that one whosawhatsit dollar is worth five dollars Canadian then I suppose it is but it doesn't really make any sense and I really can't see it holding any value for any significant period of time. How long has bit coin been around? Is anyone getting paid in bitcoin? Can you buy a pop with a Bitcoin? A car? A house? At what point is it game over?


----------



## keto (May 23, 2006)

Guncho said:


> I think this falls under, "if it's too good to be true...". It's illogical that Bitcoin has any value or will hold it. It's not a company that makes or sells things. It's imaginary money. I could invent whosawhatsit dollars and if you agree that one whosawhatsit dollar is worth five dollars Canadian then I suppose it is but it doesn't really make any sense and I really can't see it holding any value for any significant period of time. How long has bit coin been around? Is anyone getting paid in bitcoin? Can you buy a pop with a Bitcoin? A car? A house? At what point is it game over?


All of those things yes yes yes and yes. You can buy pretty much anything, though not necessarily at every merchant.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> Bitcoin fell off my radar a while ago, even though there's a convenience store near me with one of the machines. I still don't have a clue what it is.
> 
> What's going on with it these days? Did it tank out or is it doing well?


Looks like a one bitcoin is worth about $24,500 or so Canadian this morning. That's about double what my brother sold ours for about this time in 2017 and a lot more than what we paid for it a couple of years earlier. Doesn't seem to have tanked. 


Guncho said:


> I think this falls under, "if it's too good to be true...". It's illogical that Bitcoin has any value or will hold it. It's not a company that makes or sells things. It's imaginary money. I could invent whosawhatsit dollars and if you agree that one whosawhatsit dollar is worth five dollars Canadian then I suppose it is but it doesn't really make any sense and I really can't see it holding any value for any significant period of time. How long has bit coin been around? Is anyone getting paid in bitcoin? Can you buy a pop with a Bitcoin? A car? A house? At what point is it game over?


Might be illogical but they do have value and it seems to be increasing. And when you "sell" it be that thru a Bitcoin ATM or how ever you buy something and you get paid in coin of the realm or you get merchandise then it's not imaginary. Not too sure exactly how they work but there are probably at least 30 bitcoin ATM's within half an hrs drive from where I live. It started in 2008 and in 2010 one bitcoin was worth less than a $. It seems to have increased a tad. As of now, depending where you live you can buy anything you want with bitcoin. Here's a few places that take bitcoin.
11 Major Companies Who Accept Bitcoin - Where to Spend Bitcoins
As far as getting paid, I suppose that could happen, depending on what you do and the type of contract you have with the person paying you tho I don't think a job flipping burgers is in that picture. Building a house, maybe.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Electraglide said:


> No, we got rid of ours a while ago. There seems to be quite a few of the ATM's around here run by different companies like this in sports bars, money exchanges, places like that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link. I'm assuming that the "Branches" in the image are the banks? I'd rather deal direct with the seller, but no biggie I guess. I haven't been paying attention for a long time. Just occurred to me that I should take a look yesterday,


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Guncho said:


> I think this falls under, "if it's too good to be true...". It's illogical that Bitcoin has any value or will hold it. It's not a company that makes or sells things. It's imaginary money. I could invent whosawhatsit dollars and if you agree that one whosawhatsit dollar is worth five dollars Canadian then I suppose it is but it doesn't really make any sense and I really can't see it holding any value for any significant period of time. How long has bit coin been around? Is anyone getting paid in bitcoin? Can you buy a pop with a Bitcoin? A car? A house? At what point is it game over?


Yeah, I get it.

However, I *mine* ethereum in a pretty sophisticated rig. So, essentially, I'm _printing_ imaginary money for the cost of my electric bill (well, my warehouse's electric bill).

If I listened to the "it's too good to be true" crowd, I would've be living the life that I do.


----------



## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I hope it works out for everyone I just can't see how a made up non governmental currency can hold any value in the long term.


----------



## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Adcandour said:


> Thanks for the link. I'm assuming that the "Branches" in the image are the banks? I'd rather deal direct with the seller, but no biggie I guess. I haven't been paying attention for a long time. Just occurred to me that I should take a look yesterday,


Not too sure about the stores in your area but you might find a seller on Amazon. Not too sure about the "branches", all I've seen is the ATMs. Not exactly sure how they work but it seems there are ones where you can buy bitcoin from and ones that will pay you for your bitcoins. The closest one to me is in an international money exchange. Just did a quick search, looks like there is at least on branch of BitNational here. I suppose you could walk in and unload what's in your "wallet". I guess part of the thing depends on how much you paid when you got your bitcoin.....and how much you're going to be charged to cash in.


----------



## BorisSutherland (Jun 4, 2020)

Most people, of course, are interested in cryptocurrencies only in terms of potential earnings. And periodically pop-up news about how someone got rich on electronic money only fuels interest in this topic. But it is important to understand that you will not be able to earn "easy" money here. Indeed, the electronic money market is potentially the most profitable, but the probability that you will lose everything is also quite high. To start investing, you need first to study a lot of factors. Try using the website Best Online Brokerage for 2022 - The Top Stock Brokers.


----------



## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

BorisSutherland said:


> Most people, of course, are interested in cryptocurrencies only in terms of potential earnings. And periodically pop-up news about how someone got rich on electronic money only fuels interest in this topic. But it is important to understand that you will not be able to earn "easy" money here. Indeed, the electronic money market is potentially the most profitable, but the probability that you will lose everything is also quite high. To start investing, you need first to study a lot of factors. Try using the website Best Online Brokerage for 2022 - The Top Stock Brokers.


Say what you will, but the best thing I ever did was getting a competent advisor.


----------



## elburnando (11 mo ago)

I used to buy and sell high end custom pool cues(about $2k+) back around 2010. I sold one, and the guy had paid me in bitcoin. At the time i cashed out the bulk of it, maybe $4k worth, and left a fraction of a coin, as at the time it was only a few dollars per coin or less. When it hit 50k last year, i realized i still had that, spent a month trying to get back into that old app. It was at $8800cad. I cashed it out then and there. I believe it went slightly higher but then went right down to whatever it is now. I used some of it to invest back into crypto, and at this moment im up about 40%. Ill leave it in there, and keep adding some to new cryptos. One thing i noticed is the buy/sell margins can totally negate any gains.


----------



## elburnando (11 mo ago)

Electraglide said:


> Not too sure about the stores in your area but you might find a seller on Amazon. Not too sure about the "branches", all I've seen is the ATMs. Not exactly sure how they work but it seems there are ones where you can buy bitcoin from and ones that will pay you for your bitcoins. The closest one to me is in an international money exchange. Just did a quick search, looks like there is at least on branch of BitNational here. I suppose you could walk in and unload what's in your "wallet". I guess part of the thing depends on how much you paid when you got your bitcoin.....and how much you're going to be charged to cash in.


Those ATMs have ridiculous margins. Something like 20% each way. You also have to give them full access to your wallet, which some people dont like doing. I used an app called Bread or something like that, and it was pretty good. Now i just do it through my bank for a flat monthly fee.


----------

