# Even Chibsons are going up



## Diablo

Get em while you can


















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Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




www.kijiji.ca


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## Verne

I believe there was another Chibson for $600 with Gibson pickups. I don't even look at those ads. Just skimming through it caught my eye. I think it's in London as well.


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## brokentoes

That's some expensive engraving


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## Verne

Couldn't find the one, but came across this one. Same thing. No mention of it being Chibson though, just referred to as a "copy".









Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds


Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




www.kijiji.ca


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## Roryfan

He started @ $1200.....


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## aC2rs

The only "up" I'd like to see Chibsons go is "in flames".


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## tomee2

So what's the tipping point for most people to buy one? $500, $300$. Never?
I read about a guy taking one apart and finding the truss rod is fake, as in it's a nut on a stub of rod glued into a short hole in the neck, then others that go on how great they are and they're basically Epiphones with a Gibson headstock. 

I'd love to buy 10 of them from 10 sellers and bandsaw them in half to see what's inside.


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## zztomato

Why people support this practice is beyond comprehension. Not only are they all absolute shit, it supports the worst of the Chinese "business" culture. 
The money people put into these guitars, once turned into a guitar that you can actually play, would easily buy you a used LP Studio or maybe even better.


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## Milkman

tomee2 said:


> So what's the tipping point for most people to buy one? $500, $300$. Never?
> I read about a guy taking one apart and finding the truss rod is fake, as in it's a nut on a stub of rod glued into a short hole in the neck, then others that go on how great they are and they're basically Epiphones with a Gibson headstock.
> 
> I'd love to buy 10 of them from 10 sellers and bandsaw them in half to see what's inside.


There's no tipping point for me. No amount of money will erase my conscience.


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## zztomato

tomee2 said:


> So what's the tipping point for most people to buy one? $500, $300$. Never?
> I read about a guy taking one apart and finding the truss rod is fake, as in it's a nut on a stub of rod glued into a short hole in the neck, then others that go on how great they are and they're basically Epiphones with a Gibson headstock.
> 
> I'd love to buy 10 of them from 10 sellers and bandsaw them in half to see what's inside.


You don't need to. I've- unfortunately- worked on enough of them to determine they are all total crap.


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## Milkman

tomee2 said:


> So what's the tipping point for most people to buy one? $500, $300$. Never?
> I read about a guy taking one apart and finding the truss rod is fake, as in it's a nut on a stub of rod glued into a short hole in the neck, then others that go on how great they are and they're basically Epiphones with a Gibson headstock.
> 
> I'd love to buy 10 of them from 10 sellers and bandsaw them in half to see what's inside.


I think if you knowingly buy knock offs and you get a complete shit sandwich, you have it coming. Enjoy the taste. You're supporting theft and helping destroy the companies who gave us these great instruments.


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## laristotle

tomee2 said:


> I'd love to buy 10 of them from 10 sellers and bandsaw them in half to see what's inside.


nine year old thread








Chinese Strat Teardown (Pepto Bismol Special)


This guitar was advertised as a Custom Shop 60's Strat. Total price was $183.00 CDN shipped to the door. Guitar arrived today in a very secure, form fitting hard foam case. I did not order a guitar case with it. Right out of the box the first thing I noticed was the neck. This guitar was...




www.guitarscanada.com


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## Milkman

laristotle said:


> nine year old thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese Strat Teardown (Pepto Bismol Special)
> 
> 
> This guitar was advertised as a Custom Shop 60's Strat. Total price was $183.00 CDN shipped to the door. Guitar arrived today in a very secure, form fitting hard foam case. I did not order a guitar case with it. Right out of the box the first thing I noticed was the neck. This guitar was...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.guitarscanada.com


Yup, and the problem continues.

There will always be some willing to turn a blind eye, buy those bargains off the back of a truck et cetera.

I can only govern my own behaviour. Not my place to judge.


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## colchar

Verne said:


> Couldn't find the one, but came across this one. Same thing. No mention of it being Chibson though, just referred to as a "copy".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds
> 
> 
> Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kijiji.ca
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 348550




He thinks that looks like any of Page's guitars?!?!


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## vadsy

colchar said:


> He thinks that looks like any of Page's guitars?!?!


do you think he could be talking about the acoustic?


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## Diablo

vadsy said:


> do you think he could be talking about the acoustic?


only if the acoustic has humbuckers.


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## tomee2

zztomato said:


> You don't need to. I've- unfortunately- worked on enough of them to determine they are all total crap.


Ya, that was just a "wish I could prove they're all shit" suggestion. I would never buy one. I'm happy to buy an Epiphone or Eastman or Squier or anything else made in china from a real company, but the fakers have no incentive to ever do anything but promise you gold and deliver a painted rock.


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## doblander

I suspect most comments here are by Gibson and Fender owners who are skilled guitarists who take their guitars onstage. Skilled enuf to please an audience and contribute meaningfully to the band. You can justify your expensive instruments and even refer to Epi's and Squiers with disdain. Let me enlighten you about Chinese knock off's. I was a wannabe guitarist for a looong time and now advancing age has turned me into a never was. But I am obsessed with guitars/Amps. No talent but smitten. I wanted an offset guitar. $700 for an Epiphone Jaguar at L&M, taxes in. Like hell boys!! Dhgate sent me a Chaguar to my door from China for $265.00. The finish was terrible and the wiring was way worse than that. BUT the neck is perfect, all routing is neat and the electronics work fine. It's just that none of the switches on the upper bout even had wires attached. I rattle canned the body, switch covers and pickguard. A local guy installed cheap new splittable humbuckers for $130.00. I've got $395 into my Chaguar and I love it just as much as you do your Gibsons and Fenders. the setup, the action, the FEEL of this guitar is every bit AS GOOD as yours! My Chag will never leave my basement, will never gig as long as I'm alive. I am grateful to China for making what I consider to be a fully assembled kit guitar available to me. Otherwise I would never have had the privilege of owning an offset. They are absolutely not available in the local used market. Been watching for years. The moral of my story is; there's a legitimate market for Chinese Knockoffs. It's real trendy these days to piss all over them on forums but I for one have no love for Gibson/Fender. They got no bang for the bucks compared to the fine quality entry level stuff that is available from Asia. I set my Boss Katana 50 on the 5 watt setting, crank the volume up to 2, maybe 3. And my 30 plus inventory of what you consider to be junk guitars make me just as happy as Mark Knopfler has ever been with ANY guitar he has ever played.


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## player99

zztomato said:


> You don't need to. I've- unfortunately- worked on enough of them to determine they are all total crap.


It depends on how good the Chluthiers are that build them.


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## laristotle

doblander said:


> there's a legitimate market for Chinese Knockoffs


Buying counterfeits is considered legitimate? 
I'll drink to that.


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## Milkman

People will always try to rationalize bad behaviour.

Whether succinct or verbose, it's still just rationalization.

It's not that they're junk.

They are, but that's not the issue. There's nothing illegal or immoral about selling cheap guitars.

Somebody with more patience than I have will have to explain why counterfeit guitars are a bad thing.


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## player99

coun·ter·feit
/ˈkoun(t)ərˌfit/  

_adjective_
adjective: *counterfeit*

made in exact imitation of something valuable or important with the intention to deceive or defraud.


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## BGood

It's the counterfeit that's wrong. The last few inches at the top of the headstock.

A guy I know got this one made to his specs, with his logo (his forum nickname) on it. He replaced all electronics and harware and ended up with a personalised custom guitar that is a good player. Look at the serial and where it was made ... LOL


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## BlueRocker

doblander said:


> I suspect most comments here are by Gibson and Fender owners who are skilled guitarists who take their guitars onstage. Skilled enuf to please an audience and contribute meaningfully to the band. You can justify your expensive instruments and even refer to Epi's and Squiers with disdain. Let me enlighten you about Chinese knock off's. I was a wannabe guitarist for a looong time and now advancing age has turned me into a never was. But I am obsessed with guitars/Amps. No talent but smitten. I wanted an offset guitar. $700 for an Epiphone Jaguar at L&M, taxes in. Like hell boys!! Dhgate sent me a Chaguar to my door from China for $265.00. The finish was terrible and the wiring was way worse than that. BUT the neck is perfect, all routing is neat and the electronics work fine. It's just that none of the switches on the upper bout even had wires attached. I rattle canned the body, switch covers and pickguard. A local guy installed cheap new splittable humbuckers for $130.00. I've got $395 into my Chaguar and I love it just as much as you do your Gibsons and Fenders. the setup, the action, the FEEL of this guitar is every bit AS GOOD as yours! My Chag will never leave my basement, will never gig as long as I'm alive. I am grateful to China for making what I consider to be a fully assembled kit guitar available to me. Otherwise I would never have had the privilege of owning an offset. They are absolutely not available in the local used market. Been watching for years. The moral of my story is; there's a legitimate market for Chinese Knockoffs. It's real trendy these days to piss all over them on forums but I for one have no love for Gibson/Fender. They got no bang for the bucks compared to the fine quality entry level stuff that is available from Asia. I set my Boss Katana 50 on the 5 watt setting, crank the volume up to 2, maybe 3. And my 30 plus inventory of what you consider to be junk guitars make me just as happy as Mark Knopfler has ever been with ANY guitar he has ever played.


First, I'm a hack. I own both Epiphones and Gibsons and enjoy both. I've owned a few very enjoyable cheap guitars. You seem to contradict yourself here, saying the electronics work fine, then saying none of the switches on the upper bout had wires attached - which is it? Most people starting out upgrade over time as their skill or musical taste changes, which is difficult to do if you're on a budget, but more so if you buy a guitar that realistically cannot be resold, or if it were has the high likelihood of misleading a future purchaser.

I have equal disdain for Chibson's as for high end "replicas" - if you want to make a great guitar in the style of something else, go for it, but don't brand it a Gibson or Fender if it's not. If you don't love Gibson or Fender, buy something else. The $395 you have into this offset would probably pick up a used Godin, and you could skip the trip to Canadian Tire for the spray paint.

If money is an issue, your 30 guitars at $50 each would net you $1500 - enough for a used Gibson Les Paul Studio and a Mexican Strat, or any number of other quality instruments. But it makes no difference to me how many cheap guitars you choose to hoard - your opinion on a legitimate market for Chinese knockoffs is off-base. I know I'm pissing into the wind here, and you won't get it, but you're part of the problem.

If you do decide to liquidate, I could pick up a couple, I'll pay with these


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## doblander

BlueRocker said:


> First, I'm a hack. I own both Epiphones and Gibsons and enjoy both. I've owned a few very enjoyable cheap guitars. You seem to contradict yourself here, saying the electronics work fine, then saying none of the switches on the upper bout had wires attached - which is it? Most people starting out upgrade over time as their skill or musical taste changes, which is difficult to do if you're on a budget, but more so if you buy a guitar that realistically cannot be resold, or if it were has the high likelihood of misleading a future purchaser.
> 
> I have equal disdain for Chibson's as for high end "replicas" - if you want to make a great guitar in the style of something else, go for it, but don't brand it a Gibson or Fender if it's not. If you don't love Gibson or Fender, buy something else. The $395 you have into this offset would probably pick up a used Godin, and you could skip the trip to Canadian Tire for the spray paint.
> 
> If money is an issue, your 30 guitars at $50 each would net you $1500 - enough for a used Gibson Les Paul Studio and a Mexican Strat, or any number of other quality instruments. But it makes no difference to me how many cheap guitars you choose to hoard - your opinion on a legitimate market for Chinese knockoffs is off-base. I know I'm pissing into the wind here, and you won't get it, but you're part of the problem.
> 
> If you do decide to liquidate, I could pick up a couple, I'll pay with these
> 
> View attachment 348798


My original post said that my Chag arrived with terrible wiring. I explained next that i upgraded the pickups from single wire to 2 wire versions - splittable - and of course the new "fully connected" electronics offer a variety of pickup combo options. THEN I said that the electronics work fine.
Of course my China Jaguar is saleable! It likely wouldn't last a day on Kijiji. It is not suitable for on stage use by a serious musician owing to cheap tuners and pickups. But remember that for every crackerjack guitarist with high end equipment needs, there are likely at least two wannabe's out there who don't need to be get hosed by top notch equipment prices. So obviously, Chinese knockoffs are not a problem. They are a solution! 
My Chaguar has Fender scribbling on the headstock and a serial number. I agree that it isn't appropriate but I'm not going to sand it off. I AM going to use my woodburning tool to carefully burn "COPY" into the back of the headstock. That should be enuf of a desecration to foil any future owner's plan to cheat. I'm not going to sell this guitar but my estate will eventually. 
As to the rattlecan part: I buy beater Gibson style and Fender style guitars deliberately so that I can tear them down and refinish them. I'm retired. Refinishing and setting up cheap guitars is what I do and I love it. My Chaguar needed more work than most of the stuff I have previously acquired but I see that as another big plus. The worse the condition of a guitar, the greater the potential it offers. AS LONG AS THE NECK IS GOOD to begin with. So I scoff at your accusations! I will likely be scoring another Chinese copy of some sort because they're great project guitars. My Chag would have been an absolute disaster if I couldn't do any of the improvements BY MYSELF. That is the bottom line.


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## BlueRocker

doblander said:


> I agree that it isn't appropriate but I'm not going to sand it off. I AM going to use my woodburning tool to carefully burn "COPY" into the back of the headstock. That should be enuf of a desecration to foil any future owner's plan to cheat.


Sounds like a great idea - be sure to post a picture of your handiwork.


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## tomee2

doblander said:


> My original post said that my Chag arrived with terrible wiring. I explained next that i upgraded the pickups from single wire to 2 wire versions - splittable - and of course the new "fully connected" electronics offer a variety of pickup combo options. THEN I said that the electronics work fine.
> Of course my China Jaguar is saleable! It likely wouldn't last a day on Kijiji. It is not suitable for on stage use by a serious musician owing to cheap tuners and pickups. But remember that for every crackerjack guitarist with high end equipment needs, there are likely at least two wannabe's out there who don't need to be get hosed by top notch equipment prices. So obviously, Chinese knockoffs are not a problem. They are a solution!
> My Chaguar has Fender scribbling on the headstock and a serial number. I agree that it isn't appropriate but I'm not going to sand it off. I AM going to use my woodburning tool to carefully burn "COPY" into the back of the headstock. That should be enuf of a desecration to foil any future owner's plan to cheat. I'm not going to sell this guitar but my estate will eventually.
> As to the rattlecan part: I buy beater Gibson style and Fender style guitars deliberately so that I can tear them down and refinish them. I'm retired. Refinishing and setting up cheap guitars is what I do and I love it. My Chaguar needed more work than most of the stuff I have previously acquired but I see that as another big plus. The worse the condition of a guitar, the greater the potential it offers. AS LONG AS THE NECK IS GOOD to begin with. So I scoff at your accusations! I will likely be scoring another Chinese copy of some sort because they're great project guitars. My Chag would have been an absolute disaster if I couldn't do any of the improvements BY MYSELF. That is the bottom line.


Why didn't you buy a Squier? Quality, consistent, good resale and also made in China. Could the Fender logo have something to do with it?
Used Squier Jazzmaster or Jaguar, or the Jagmaster they once did go for $400 maybe $500 used. There's even the $300 ( new !) Squier Affinity Jazzmaster. HH, no trem, white or black. Hard to beat. Offset shape too.
Or, order something from GFS, super cheap also made in China but you can return it if dont like it and it doesn't say fender on the headstock.
Why does it have to be a fake "Fender" from china? Plenty of legitimate choices on the market for every budget.


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## doblander

I am choking on Squiers and Epiphones in my closet and under the bed! I'm a devoted fan of these brands. Kijiji is awash with Gibson and strat copies. I would have an offset Fender Jaguar/Jazzmaster if they would appear in the LOCAL used marketplace. But they don't. I do mean NEVER. I checked in at the local Long & Mcquade website just now. Contrary to the attractive prices for offset's that you mention, Squier offers a beauty CV 60's Jazzmaster style for $560.00 Cdn PLUS taxes which takes it to $600 plus. I did a lot better than that with my Chaguar. So you see Squier cannot compete price wise and there are zero used ones available. My upgraded China Jag is every bit as quality as Squier. By the way I do not see that Affinity series even makes an offset 6 string. I'd be willing to check it out if it exists. 
The FENDER scribble on the headstock is worthless to me. I have no desire to own a Fender made guitar. I'm a lone basement player with extremely limited talent. Fender does not make a guitar at any price that can better serve my needs than Squier Affinity. Likewise Squier Affinity does not make a guitar that better serves my limited needs than my upgraded knockoff. And as I said I don't see that Affinity does offsets at any price. 
I am obligated to disfigure the headstock on my Chag by woodburning "copy" or similar on the reverse side. For that reason I view the authentic looking Fender scribbling on the headstock as an outright disfigurement that amounts to devaluation of my Chinese made guitar! 
I want to point out to everybody listening here that the cheap Fender Jaguar copy that I am defending arrived from China with a VERY poor finish and TERRIBLE wiring! I was not disappointed because the neck is perfect and so is the routing. I got it for $200 Cdn plus $65 shipping. Two months and 11 days. I applied rattlecan paint and clearcoat to body and plastics. I paid $130 extra for new pups and labour to rewire. $395 Cdn ttl cost. If I had the necessary knowledge to do the wiring myself, my beauty Chag would have cost me about $60 less. I can't buy a Squier equivalent as cheap as that as far as I am presently aware. Be warned that if you can't do at least some of the work yourself to make them as playable, as pleasing as a new guitar should be, then it's not worth it. I can't say anything about those Chinese copies that cost more up front. I would assume that they're not as poor as a $200 Jaguar. I did the work, I paid for some help and I am as pleased as can be with my new Jaguar.


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## doblander

doblander said:


> I am choking on Squiers and Epiphones in my closet and under the bed! I'm a devoted fan of these brands. Kijiji is awash with Gibson and strat copies. I would have an offset Fender Jaguar/Jazzmaster if they would appear in the LOCAL used marketplace. But they don't. I do mean NEVER. I checked in at the local Long & Mcquade website just now. Contrary to the attractive prices for offset's that you mention, Squier offers a beauty CV 60's Jazzmaster style for $560.00 Cdn PLUS taxes which takes it to $600 plus. I did a lot better than that with my Chaguar. So you see Squier cannot compete price wise and there are zero used ones available. My upgraded China Jag is every bit as quality as Squier. By the way I do not see that Affinity series even makes an offset 6 string. I'd be willing to check it out if it exists.
> The FENDER scribble on the headstock is worthless to me. I have no desire to own a Fender made guitar. I'm a lone basement player with extremely limited talent. Fender does not make a guitar at any price that can better serve my needs than Squier Affinity. Likewise Squier Affinity does not make a guitar that better serves my limited needs than my upgraded knockoff. And as I said I don't see that Affinity does offsets at any price.
> I am obligated to disfigure the headstock on my Chag by woodburning "copy" or similar on the reverse side. For that reason I view the authentic looking Fender scribbling on the headstock as an outright disfigurement that amounts to devaluation of my Chinese made guitar!
> I want to point out to everybody listening here that the cheap Fender Jaguar copy that I am defending arrived from China with a VERY poor finish and TERRIBLE wiring! I was not disappointed because the neck is perfect and so is the routing. I got it for $200 Cdn plus $65 shipping. Two months and 11 days. I applied rattlecan paint and clearcoat to body and plastics. I paid $130 extra for new pups and labour to rewire. $395 Cdn ttl cost. If I had the necessary knowledge to do the wiring myself, my beauty Chag would have cost me about $60 less. I can't buy a Squier equivalent as cheap as that as far as I am presently aware. Be warned that if you can't do at least some of the work yourself to make them as playable, as pleasing as a new guitar should be, then it's not worth it. I can't say anything about those Chinese copies that cost more up front. I would assume that they're not as poor as a $200 Jaguar. I did the work, I paid for some help and I am as pleased as can be with my new Jaguar.


I submit a few pictures of my Chinese Jaguar ripoff guitar in its refinished state. The action is waaay low. Original cheap pots and "Kluson" tuners work very well in my low demand "basement guitarist" situation. This was a fun project for reasonable dollars resulting in a guitar that's easy to love.i


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## greco

doblander said:


> I am obligated to disfigure the headstock on my Chag by woodburning "copy" or similar on the reverse side. For that reason
> *I view the authentic looking Fender scribbling on the headstock as an outright disfigurement that amounts to devaluation of my Chinese made guitar!*


This has got to be a first!


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## BlueRocker

greco said:


> This has got to be a first!


Never been trolled before?


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## greco

BlueRocker said:


> Never been trolled before?


I am just far too naive and trusting. Probably an age thing.


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## JBFairthorne

I would rather have one good guitar than 30 shitty ones.

I fail to see the connection between playing ability and desire/need of a good quality instrument...unless your playing ability and ear is so bad that you can’t feel/hear the difference. I’ll never be what I consider to be a good player but I certainly appreciate playing a good instrument.

The entire premise of the thread is nonsense.

That being said, feel to enjoy your low caliber instruments. It’s definitely a buyers market.


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## Roryfan

A face cord is 4’ x 8’ and sells for ~$150 in Ontario.

Assuming mean average body dimensions of 2”H x 14”W x 16”D it would require 168 Chibsons to make a face cord. Seems like pretty expensive firewood.


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## 2manyGuitars

JBFairthorne said:


> I would rather have one good guitar than 30 shitty ones.
> 
> I fail to see the connection between playing ability and desire/need of a good quality instrument...unless your playing ability and ear is so bad that you can’t feel/hear the difference. I’ll never be what I consider to be a good player but I certainly appreciate playing a good instrument.
> 
> The entire premise of the thread is nonsense.
> 
> That being said, feel to enjoy your low caliber instruments. It’s definitely a buyers market.


At some point, you think you’d start to wonder...

“Do I buy a bunch of shitty guitars because I’m a shitty player? Or am I a shitty player because I play a bunch of shitty guitars?”


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## tomee2

2manyGuitars said:


> At some point, you think you’d start to wonder...
> 
> “Do I buy a bunch of shitty guitars because I’m a shitty player? Or am I a shitty player because I play a bunch of shitty guitars?”


But balking at a $700 MIM Jaguar with a closet full of Squiers and Epiphones? Makes no sense to me. "Fender squiggle is not important"...orders guitar sightunseen from China, only because it has the Fender squiggle.


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## BlueRocker

In honour of this thread I only played US Gibsons tonight - quite shittily.


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## 2manyGuitars

BlueRocker said:


> In honour of this thread I only played US Gibsons tonight - quite shittily.


In _real_ honour of this thread, I’m going to play an overpriced Indonesian guitar.










...because not only am I dumb enough to pay more than three or four hundred bucks for a guitar, I’m dumb enough to pay hundreds more for an _import!!!_


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## colchar

doblander said:


> I suspect most comments here are by Gibson and Fender owners who are skilled guitarists who take their guitars onstage. Skilled enuf to please an audience and contribute meaningfully to the band. You can justify your expensive instruments and even refer to Epi's and Squiers with disdain.


Maybe we're just people who look on counterfeits with disdain.




> Let me enlighten you about Chinese knock off's. I was a wannabe guitarist for a looong time and now advancing age has turned me into a never was. But I am obsessed with guitars/Amps. No talent but smitten. I wanted an offset guitar. $700 for an Epiphone Jaguar at L&M, taxes in. Like hell boys!! Dhgate sent me a Chaguar to my door from China for $265.00. The finish was terrible and the wiring was way worse than that. BUT the neck is perfect, all routing is neat and the electronics work fine. It's just that none of the switches on the upper bout even had wires attached.


So you got what you paid for.

And congrats on supporting counterfeiters.





> the setup, the action, the FEEL of this guitar is every bit AS GOOD as yours!


No it isn't.





> I am grateful to China for making what I consider to be a fully assembled kit guitar available to me.


You're grateful to criminals?




> Otherwise I would never have had the privilege of owning an offset.



Sure you would have had you saved, financed, or whatever.




> They are absolutely not available in the local used market. Been watching for years.


Then you're fucking blind as we post links to ads for counterfeits here all the time.




> The moral of my story is; there's a legitimate market for Chinese Knockoffs.


No, there is not a legitimate market for them.



> It's real trendy these days to piss all over them on forums


If that's your definition of a tragedy you need a better dictionary. This time, buy a real one and not a Chinese knockoff of the OED.




> but I for one have no love for Gibson/Fender


So you support counterfeiters because of that? Congrats on being a dick.




> They got no bang for the bucks compared to the fine quality entry level stuff that is available from Asia.


How the fuck would you know since you admit yourself that you suck?




> I set my Boss Katana 50 on the 5 watt setting, crank the volume up to 2, maybe 3. And my 30 plus inventory of what you consider to be junk guitars make me just as happy as Mark Knopfler has ever been with ANY guitar he has ever played.



What the fuck makes you think you know how Knopffler feels about any of his guitars?


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## colchar

tomee2 said:


> Why didn't you buy a Squier? Quality, consistent, good resale and also made in China. Could the Fender logo have something to do with it?
> Used Squier Jazzmaster or Jaguar, or the Jagmaster they once did go for $400 maybe $500 used. There's even the $300 ( new !) Squier Affinity Jazzmaster. HH, no trem, white or black. Hard to beat. Offset shape too.
> Or, order something from GFS, super cheap also made in China but you can return it if dont like it and it doesn't say fender on the headstock.
> Why does it have to be a fake "Fender" from china? Plenty of legitimate choices on the market for every budget.


Yeah he hates Fender and Gibson but wants their name on the headstock.


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## colchar

doblander said:


> I checked in at the local Long & Mcquade website just now. Contrary to the attractive prices for offset's that you mention, Squier offers a beauty CV 60's Jazzmaster style for $560.00 Cdn PLUS taxes which takes it to $600 plus.


So buy used. Many of us here do.




> I did a lot better than that with my Chaguar.



No, you really didn't but it is cute that you think so.




> So you see Squier cannot compete price wise and there are zero used ones available.


Call your local L&M and ask them to search their national used inventory.




> My upgraded China Jag is every bit as quality as Squier.



I don't know if you are still trying to rationalize your purchase of a counterfeit, or if you're just an idiot.





> I'm a lone basement player with extremely limited talent.


But claim you can discern quality and know that your cheap piece of shit is just as good as a legit Fender?





> And as I said I don't see that Affinity does offsets at any price.



Affinity is a line, Squier is a make. Squier does offer what you are looking for, and all you have to do is find a used one which is not nearly as difficult as you claim.




> For that reason I view the authentic looking Fender scribbling on the headstock as an outright disfigurement that amounts to devaluation of my Chinese made guitar!


How do you devalue something that is worthless?


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## 2manyGuitars

doblander said:


> The moral of my story is; there's a *legitimate* market for Chinese knockoffs.


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## 2manyGuitars

colchar said:


> I don't know if you are still trying to rationalize your purchase of a counterfeit, or if you're just an idiot.


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## Diablo

> My upgraded China Jag is every bit as quality as Squier.


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## doblander

Thank you for the many amusing comments regarding my Chinese Fender Jaguar knockoff guitar! All negative, not surprising. It's likely that all responses are made by guys who have never bo't a "dhgate guitar". I ordered mine despite the many YouTube reviews of these controversial gems I've watched which ALMOST always warn against going there. But I really wanted an offset, didn't care if its Jazzmaster or Jaguar, I just wanted the offset shape. For less money than alternative sources afforded. My choice of this Chaguar was based 100% on the fact that it was the cheapest offset available on the day I bit. I EXPECTED it to have problems. I'm retired, my hobby is used cheap guitars. Refinishing, setting up, making them the best I can without upgrading any parts unless malfunction dictates. My Chaguar showed up with lousy finish and awful wiring. I don't givva dam. I TOLD YOU, the neck, the pocket, the routing are perfect. (I confess that I was really worried about neck, pocket and string reveal). In any guitar the wooden stuff and the centering of strings along the neck is all that REALLY matters. The rest is easy fix. I know that it will be extremely difficult for some of you to accept the fact that my China Jag is well crafted as far as the neck and body are concerned. You simply CANNOT think past the ink on the headstock.The pots are the same bottom feeder crap that you find in Squiers, Epi's, etc. But as always they work very well. And same goes for tuners & bridge. I derived a great deal of enjoyment from refinishing my Chag and the guy who redid the pups and wiring for me did it right. End result, I have an attractive offset guitar with low action and great sound through my Boss Katana. At a price that I am very pleased with. I will be removing/replacing that logo with a home made scribble that will look like it was factory installed. I AM OBLIGATED to insure sure that nobody tries a swindle after my estate places the guitar in someone else's hands. I'm on you're side as far as that logo is concerned! If you own just one or 2 highender Fender's that are all you ever hoped for, you're truly a lucky man. But I need lots of (cheap) guitars to feed my hobby. I have never ruined one yet but the possibility is always there. Why I stay away from Fender/Gibson. By the way I do own a Gibson LPJ 2013. From L & M. Bought new that year. It's a heavy sow of a thing that doesn't sound any different or feel as good as the Chag! I tell you truthfully that the finish on that Gibson when I took delivery was same workmanship as that on my Chag upon it's arrival from China. Simply a single layer paint with an airbrush on bare wood. No primer no clearcoat, both cases! I can forgive that low standard on the Chag but bad on Gibson for TRYING to make my high priced guitar look like a Chinese Ripoff copycat!! Anyways It is aging well because I don't use it. REMEMBER: This is CANADIAN guitar forum. We discuss things, guitars here like Canadian adults. We don't say things like "dumb as shit" and "idiot" to people we may not agree with. And guitar racism is not acceptable.


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## laristotle

doblander said:


> You simply CANNOT think past the ink on the headstock.


Supporting an illegal industry is the problem.


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## BlueRocker

doblander said:


> We don't say things like "dumb as shit" and "idiot" to people we may not agree with. And guitar racism is not acceptable.


Looks like a duck....

And I don't recall any "guitar racism" rules on the forum (whatever that is). You have an opinion that is your own, and I doubt shared by anyone else on this forum. Please continue to enjoy your hobby, but encouraging rip-off fake guitar manufacturers isn't going to win you any friends around here.


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## tomee2

Guitar racism? It's not racist to oppose buying a fake guitar! I own a made in China Squier and it's fantastic!
Selling fake guitars with registered brand names on them is illegal, full stop.
The fakers have no incentive to deliver what you think you're going to get. They'll show a picture of a real Gibson, and they can deliver junk.
You have no recourse to return it if it's total junk.
Their "store" disappears once they've sold enough to start getting complaints.

It takes away jobs from legitimate guitar dealers in Canada, and guitar builders here too.

These fake LABEL products are different from legitimate off brand products. Epiphone, Squier, Agile, Eastman, Tokai, etc all make guitars in China. They want repeat customers, good reviews, so they make good guitars, so their business can continue.
A fake Fender seller has to SELL you a fake LABEL Fender, they don't have to deliver you a good guitar at all because once they have your money they can disappear. from what you describe, that's what you got.

The problem is bigger then guitars. Dangerous fake parts for cars and airplanes have been coming from China for almost 30 years. Again, not real parts made in china with legitimate businesses behind them, but fake label parts sellers that will make and sell a pallet of fake BMW brake rotors, packaged in perfectly reproduced BMW packaging, but inside is a rough junk metal part that might fit, and maybe it won't fly apart in use.


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## 2manyGuitars

doblander said:


> Thank you for the many amusing comments regarding my Chinese Fender Jaguar knockoff guitar! All negative, not surprising. It's likely that all responses are made by guys who have never bo't a "dhgate guitar". I ordered mine despite the many YouTube reviews of these controversial gems I've watched which ALMOST always warn against going there. But I really wanted an offset, didn't care if its Jazzmaster or Jaguar, I just wanted the offset shape. For less money than alternative sources afforded. My choice of this Chaguar was based 100% on the fact that it was the cheapest offset available on the day I bit. I EXPECTED it to have problems. I'm retired, my hobby is used cheap guitars. Refinishing, setting up, making them the best I can without upgrading any parts unless malfunction dictates. My Chaguar showed up with lousy finish and awful wiring. I don't givva dam. I TOLD YOU, the neck, the pocket, the routing are perfect. (I confess that I was really worried about neck, pocket and string reveal). In any guitar the wooden stuff and the centering of strings along the neck is all that REALLY matters. The rest is easy fix. I know that it will be extremely difficult for some of you to accept the fact that my China Jag is well crafted as far as the neck and body are concerned. You simply CANNOT think past the ink on the headstock.The pots are the same bottom feeder crap that you find in Squiers, Epi's, etc. But as always they work very well. And same goes for tuners & bridge. I derived a great deal of enjoyment from refinishing my Chag and the guy who redid the pups and wiring for me did it right. End result, I have an attractive offset guitar with low action and great sound through my Boss Katana. At a price that I am very pleased with. I will be removing/replacing that logo with a home made scribble that will look like it was factory installed. I AM OBLIGATED to insure sure that nobody tries a swindle after my estate places the guitar in someone else's hands. I'm on you're side as far as that logo is concerned! If you own just one or 2 highender Fender's that are all you ever hoped for, you're truly a lucky man. But I need lots of (cheap) guitars to feed my hobby. I have never ruined one yet but the possibility is always there. Why I stay away from Fender/Gibson. By the way I do own a Gibson LPJ 2013. From L & M. Bought new that year. It's a heavy sow of a thing that doesn't sound any different or feel as good as the Chag! I tell you truthfully that the finish on that Gibson when I took delivery was same workmanship as that on my Chag upon it's arrival from China. Simply a single layer paint with an airbrush on bare wood. No primer no clearcoat, both cases! I can forgive that low standard on the Chag but bad on Gibson for TRYING to make my high priced guitar look like a Chinese Ripoff copycat!! Anyways It is aging well because I don't use it. REMEMBER: This is CANADIAN guitar forum. We discuss things, guitars here like Canadian adults. We don't say things like "dumb as shit" and "idiot" to people we may not agree with. And guitar racism is not acceptable.


Started skimming through your manifesto and realized you were still trying to argue the merits of your purchase based on quality, price, etc. A couple others have already said what I’m about to say but I’ll boil it down for you.

Nobody CARES!!!

Don’t get me wrong... If you’re talking about a Squier, Epiphone, President’s Choice, etc., we’re happy to talk about guitars all day long. I _want_ to hear about stuff like fretwork, neck shape, electronics, fit and finish. We live for this sh!t.

But you’re buying counterfeits. That’s the end of the conversation for most. I’m not going to waste my (online) breath trying to explain to you why it’s wrong. Others have already done that. I would be just as successful as you are, trying to explain to me how your purchase makes perfect sense. It’s precisely _because_ we’re so passionate about guitars that supporting these criminals offends us.

And as far as “guitar racism”? I own guitars made in USA, Canada, Indonesia, Korea, Germany, Japan, China. I’m the effin’ United Nations of guitars. And don’t you dare call me a “guitar snob”. You’re talking to a guy who owns not one, but _two_ Hello Kitty Squier Strats. You definitely aren’t going to win that argument.

Bottom line?
Come here to talk about the other 30 legitimate (look up the _actual_ meaning of that word) guitars you own. We’re here for you. But if you want to drone on about counterfeits? Save your keystrokes.


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## laristotle

2manyGuitars said:


> You’re talking to a guy who owns not one, but _two_ Hello Kitty Squier Strats


You're in good company
























Personally, I'd prefer this


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## vadsy

I still find it kinda silly that guys will go to argue cheap counterfeits but ignore the high end ones. More of those being sold here than actual Chibsons. 

Let it go, they’re here to stay. May even get the big brands to re-evaluate their approach. It’s part of evolution


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## Diablo

I...ahem...inadvertently bought a Chipiphone about 10 years back.
It plays well, is made of solid-ish wood (never know until you xray it), and looks the part as long as you dont obsess about whether or not it has the "correct" binding, bridge mounted in the correct spot etc. The components were cheap but useable....worse than an actual epi? who knows. most of the time things like pups would be upgraded anyways.

But while its perfectly acceptable in terms of quality for what I paid, all things being equal, it will always be my red-headed stepson. Was a bargain I wish i never found.


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## tomee2

vadsy said:


> I still find it kinda silly that guys will go to argue cheap counterfeits but ignore the high end ones. More of those being sold here than actual Chibsons.
> 
> Let it go, they’re here to stay. May even get the big brands to re-evaluate their approach. It’s part of evolution


I get your point. but I see partscasters, with or without a faked up or even a spoof decal, as a different thing. Adding a Fender decal, ya I dont really like that. But what I see is that most are made with licensed parts, or even bits of the real thing, and usually the parts are well made. Building a good guitar from good parts and then selling it, probably at a loss, is what I see going on here in the classifieds. But I bet if anyone here put pictures up of a real custom shop Fender, claimed it was their take on a 63 Strat, then sent you a badly built guitar that wasn't what was in the pictures, and then ghosted you, you'd be upset. That's what the fakers from across the world will do.


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## tomee2

Diablo said:


> I...ahem...inadvertently bought a Chipiphone about 10 years back.
> It plays well, is made of solid-ish wood (never know until you xray it), and looks the part as long as you dont obsess about whether or not it has the "correct" binding, bridge mounted in the correct spot etc. The components were cheap but useable....worse than an actual epi? who knows. most of the time things like pups would be upgraded anyways.
> 
> But while its perfectly acceptable in terms of quality for what I paid, all things being equal, it will always be my red-headed stepson. Was a bargain I wish i never found.


So fake Epiphones are a real thing? I found a huge thread someplace about them but the pictures are all gone mostly. I always wondered if it was just Epiphone using stock marketing pictures, then delivering a slightly different product.
What's next??? ...

Millions of N95 masks are counterfeits. Here's how to spot a fake U.S. Customs has seized millions of counterfeit N95s. Here's how to spot a fake.


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## doblander

2manyGuitars said:


> Started skimming through your manifesto and realized you were still trying to argue the merits of your purchase based on quality, price, etc. A couple others have already said what I’m about to say but I’ll boil it down for you.
> 
> Nobody CARES!!!
> 
> Don’t get me wrong... If you’re talking about a Squier, Epiphone, President’s Choice, etc., we’re happy to talk about guitars all day long. I _want_ to hear about stuff like fretwork, neck shape, electronics, fit and finish. We live for this sh!t.
> 
> But you’re buying counterfeits. That’s the end of the conversation for most. I’m not going to waste my (online) breath trying to explain to you why it’s wrong. Others have already done that. I would be just as successful as you are, trying to explain to me how your purchase makes perfect sense. It’s precisely _because_ we’re so passionate about guitars that supporting these criminals offends us.
> 
> And as far as “guitar racism”? I own guitars made in USA, Canada, Indonesia, Korea, Germany, Japan, China. I’m the effin’ United Nations of guitars. And don’t you dare call me a “guitar snob”. You’re talking to a guy who owns not one, but _two_ Hello Kitty Squier Strats. You definitely aren’t going to win that argument.
> 
> Bottom line?
> Come here to talk about the other 30 legitimate (look up the _actual_ meaning of that word) guitars you own. We’re here for you. But if you want to drone on about counterfeits? Save your keystrokes.


I didn't call you a guitar snob. And you are contradiction to "nobody cares". You have a lot of support for your strong view toward stolen logos. Guys like you fight for the brands that set the highest standards in guitar world. And also for their cheaper sister brands. You have guitar savvy and pride in your ownership. Good. I don't look for a guitar based upon quality components and how realiably it would serve in a gig situation. I want cheap first and foremost, logo means nothing. I want a guitar in need of repair. They're always made in China and these low enders ALWAYS sound good through a cheap modelling amp at low volume. I take pride in my finished hobby projects. I have most of the obscure brands you can name. My only Fender logo is on my China Jag and it's coming off. I don't agree with stolen logos but if the CHEAP guitar I need is cursed with one, I will buy it anyway and change it. It's very rewarding to install a home made logo when it looks factory perfect upon completion. I have never sold ANY of my worked over growing inventory. You and I have very different expectations from our guitars. You go your way and I'll go mine. I think that's the best we can do. Maybe you'll take some comfort in knowing that I won't be buying any more dhgate guitars regardless of headstock ID. I have my offset guitar now. I have at least one of every other guitar "shape" that I want. I know. Who cares! This is a very good forum topic and I thank all who have chipped in with opinions on knockoffs.


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## 2manyGuitars

laristotle said:


> You're in good company
> View attachment 349408
> 
> View attachment 349410
> 
> View attachment 349409
> 
> Personally, I'd prefer this
> View attachment 349411


Speaking of going up in value (remember, that _was_ the original point of this thread), I googled for a photo of the Black one since I own both colours. You usually only see photos of the pink one.












Anyhow, my googling led me to Reverb and that’s when I noticed someone asking over $600 for a beat to crap one. I thought maybe the seller was on meth. Then I checked out the Price Guide. Yikes...


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## laristotle

2manyGuitars said:


> I googled for a photo of the Black one


I missed out on one for $200 last year by three minutes. lol


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## 2manyGuitars

laristotle said:


> I missed out on one for $200 last year by three minutes. lol


About a year ago, my daughter showed a photo of the Pink one to someone in her grade 9 guitar class. He thought it was awesome and joked about buying one. I told her to tell him that there was currently one on kijiji. I think it was around $300.

I was thinking of buying it at the time. I’m kicking my ass now that I didn’t. At the time, I knew that it was probably a decent investment. Little did I know how good...


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## Diablo

tomee2 said:


> So fake Epiphones are a real thing? I found a huge thread someplace about them but the pictures are all gone mostly. I always wondered if it was just Epiphone using stock marketing pictures, then delivering a slightly different product.
> What's next??? ...
> 
> Millions of N95 masks are counterfeits. Here's how to spot a fake U.S. Customs has seized millions of counterfeit N95s. Here's how to spot a fake.


They are.
that’s how they “get you”. You don’t expect a sub $1000 guitar to be copied, but they are. So you buy a used one for $500 or so thinking it’s legit and a good deal but not too far from reality, so alarm bells dont go off.
theyre probably successful bc the typical epi buyer may not be as savvy as someone looking at a CS model, for example,
they don’t need to make 1000% profit, they just want to sell guitars that they otherwise wouldn’t with a generic name on it.
the signature models like zakk wylde get ripped off the most. Probably more fakes than real ones out there.


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