# How are our BC friends doing



## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

Our hearts go out to you all in BC who are going through the worst flooding ever seen. I hope all of you and yours are safe and sound.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

The town of Merrit completely flooded out. It's crazy! Hope there's no loss of life and that people can recover from this.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I think it will continue to get worse particularly in coastal areas.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Yeah, I thought that they would get a break with the end of fire season. It appears that it's an all-season hardship. I was thinking about how lucky we have been in the Ottawa Valley this year for weather conditions. Maybe BC will get a break next year and we will suffer...the weather systems are very unpredictable now.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

No flood damage here but a bear knocked down our back fence last night. Normally the bears would be eating salmon this time of year. With the rivers this high their food is nowhere to be found. They are looking for food. This may severely affect future salmon runs which are already depleted.


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

Dry & safe here, but we're now in effect isolated from the rest of Canada by land routes... Let's see, first fire, now flood, gotta wonder what's next -- the "big one"??


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

My daughter messaged me from Kelowna. Power out for 14 hours as of 6:30am. It rained, a lot, yesterday.


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

@Robert1950, "It rained a lot..." is an understatement!! I've lived in Vancouver since the mid-1970s -- never seen that kind of sustained/intense downpour in my life (anywhere). I'm close to the airport, where 115mm fell yesterday. Guess I should count myself lucky compared to inland areas.


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## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

Out here in Greendale ( Chilliwack), we are in the center of it all. Devastating flooding all around, highways are all closed. This morning all grocery stores packed with shoppers as highway one closed indefinitely. That is not due to our rivers but rather the Nooksack river in Washington state that burst its banks and floods the sumas praire farming area of BC right up to and including the highway. Some farms have 10' of water on them. Likely national coverage on news outlets tonight.
Here at our home we had aprrox 12" -20" or water over our property but our home , studio, out building all kept dry. Our green house had approx 12" of water but all dry now, no damage as plants can handle it.
We are fortunate in our area as we are somewhat higher then many properties.
I believe we had 220 mm of rain sat thru monday morning.
And this water is not from overflowing rivers, it is just more rain then we have ever seen in such a short time frame.
I remember as a 15 year old in 1975 we had a similar rain event also in November. Wiped out many roads and bridges.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

DavidP said:


> Dry & safe here, but we're now in effect isolated from the rest of Canada by land routes... Let's see, first fire, now flood, gotta wonder what's next -- the "big one"??


Aren't locusts next on the list?

But on a more serious and considerate note, British Columbians have had an undeservedly shitty year. Some of the folks on the lower mainland can work from home, but a larger share of those in the interior necessarily work outside of their homes, whether in the forest industry, mining, tourism or agriculture. "Outside" work may be far more forgiving with respect to viral spread, but one still has to be able to* get* to work, and have a workplace to get *to*, and that's not so easy or feasible at the moment.

Safe shelter to one and all.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

An earth science prof being interviewed on CBC radio this morning noted that the summer fires played a modest role in the flooding. He noted that the ash and other residue left on the ground impairs the absorptive properties of the soil, leading to all that excess water needing somewhere else to go, in order to drain off.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Penticton escaped all of this, it rained more than it usually does, which is not a lot. However being cut off from the lower mainland is going to lead to shortages, food being foremost in my mind. The manager at a local electronics store told me he was expecting 7 pallets of TV's for Black Friday. Definitely black this year. A friend is stuck in Vancouver, just heading over to water his plants. More crap in a mostly crappy year but it'll be over soon, the year that is. Take care everyone.


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## Tom T (May 3, 2016)

Thanks for asking, Marcos - you are a good man.


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## EchoWD40 (Mar 16, 2007)

In Kamloops currently. 
It's all fine here but the supply chain panic is starting to set in. Costco was wild today. 
I have a few friends who are stuck out in random areas.


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## Squawk (Jun 21, 2018)

dgreen said:


> Out here in Greendale ( Chilliwack), we are in the center of it all. Devastating flooding all around, highways are all closed. This morning all grocery stores packed with shoppers as highway one closed indefinitely. That is not due to our rivers but rather the Nooksack river in Washington state that burst its banks and floods the sumas praire farming area of BC right up to and including the highway. Some farms have 10' of water on them. Likely national coverage on news outlets tonight.
> Here at our home we had aprrox 12" -20" or water over our property but our home , studio, out building all kept dry. Our green house had approx 12" of water but all dry now, no damage as plants can handle it.
> We are fortunate in our area as we are somewhat higher then many properties.
> I believe we had 220 mm of rain sat thru monday morning.
> ...


Ugh, glad your studio and home was not flooded.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Kerry Brown said:


> No flood damage here but a bear knocked down our back fence last night. Normally the bears would be eating salmon this time of year. With the rivers this high their food is nowhere to be found. They are looking for food. This may severely affect future salmon runs which are already depleted.


My son lives and works in Squamish. He said much the same. Rainy but no flooding.


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## Stephenlouis (Jun 24, 2019)

Flooding kept me away from my house for 24 hours.I managed to get home the next day.All good at my place. I work on the other side of the malahat, so I'm packing a bag, leaving the Cowichan Valley for work for 4 days at a time. First picture my girlfriend took, road leading to her property. Second is the underpass for the malahat.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Looks pretty grim. Sorry you have to face this. Stay safe out there.


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## Rollin Hand (Jul 12, 2012)

This seems like a clichéd thing to say but, to all of our BC friends, take care of yourselves and each other. Stay safe.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Stephenlouis said:


> Flooding kept me away from my house for 24 hours.I managed to get home the next day.All good at my place. I work on the other side of the malahat, so I'm packing a bag, leaving the Cowichan Valley for work for 4 days at a time. First picture my girlfriend took, road leading to her property. Second is the underpass for the malahat.
> View attachment 388082
> 
> View attachment 388081


Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but isn't this around the tail end of what is usually salmon spawning season on Vancouver Island? It's a little over 30 years ago, so I may be remembering it wrong, but I vaguely recall going with our son to Goldstream Park outside Victoria to watch the "quivering masses" around this time of year. If this is, indeed, when they would normally be crowding into otherwise quiet streams to spawn, I would imagine this rainfall is going to put a serious crimp in their style, and subsequent salmon yields.

I used to teach at the former Malaspina in Duncan, now VIU. Nice part of the world.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Mother Nature is taking back what we humans tried to take away.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Paul Running said:


> Mother Nature is taking back what we humans tried to take away.
> 
> View attachment 388097


You make a surprisingly interesting point. Regardless, we know what this catastrophe is gonna be blamed on, don't we? 😕


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

allthumbs56 said:


> You make a surprisingly interesting point. Regardless, we know what this catastrophe is gonna be blamed on, don't we? 😕



By whom? 

LMAO


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Terrible situation. Hope everyone stays safe and sound.

Will this pop the real estate price bubble in BC?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Terrible situation. Hope everyone stays safe and sound.
> 
> Will this pop the real estate price bubble in BC?


Who knows, but it may nudge waterfront prices down, and hilltop property prices up. Getting any sort of flood insurance is going to get pricier and pricier, if existent at all. House prices are ultimately going to have to reflect what the homeowner is on the hook for themselves, in the event of catastrophe, and what can't/won't be coverable via insurance.


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## Stephenlouis (Jun 24, 2019)

I have footage of spawning salmon swimming down the highway. Hatchery chum has been wiped out in a few rivers. It's late season but I worry about the roe.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

allthumbs56 said:


> Regardless, we know what this catastrophe is gonna be blamed on, don't we? 😕


Too many waxed their cars the day before?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Stephenlouis said:


> I have footage of spawning salmon swimming down the highway. Hatchery chum has been wiped out in a few rivers. It's late season but I worry about the roe.


That's kind of what I was afraid of. Thanks for the info. Not what I was hoping for, but important to know.


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## marcos (Jan 13, 2009)

I cant imagine what some of you are going through. Also how it will affect the animals, fish etc.. Sad sad situation to say the least.


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## Stephenlouis (Jun 24, 2019)

My new wheels to get to work.


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## Stephenlouis (Jun 24, 2019)

Jim DaddyO said:


> Terrible situation. Hope everyone stays safe and sound.
> 
> Will this pop the real estate price bubble in BC?


No, not at all, land is a very limited commodity. Land on an island even more so.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Anyone been to a grocery store in the interior??


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Empty shelves mostly, no milk to be found. We can't even stock up as we don't have our fridge yet, very limited space.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Milkman said:


> I think it will continue to get worse particularly in coastal areas.


That is about 200km from the ocean ...


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Sabrina Maddeaux: Economic havoc awaits after Canada's largest port cut off from rest of country


Supply chain disaster shows how overreliant Canada is on trade with China




nationalpost.com




_Vancouver is completely cut off from the rest of the country. Extreme rains, floods and landslides have rendered Highways 1, 7 and 3 unusable. The Coquilhalla Highway is snapped in two like uncooked spaghetti. The rail lines that connect the Port of Vancouver to, well, everywhere else are all under water, mud, debris –– or all of the above. 

“Tough to be precise, but based on the latest data for 2017 and extrapolated forward, I estimate roughly $300-350m is traded between BC and the rest of Canada per day by road or rail. That’s $2-2.5b per week,” tweeted University of Calgary economics professor Trevor Tombe.

No matter what, cutting off a major port from the rest of the country is going to spell bad news. But what takes this scenario from logistically inconvenient to five-alarm economic fire is our outsized dependence on trade with China.

The Port of Vancouver is the only Canadian port that exports and receives goods to and from China. The country accounted for 34.9 million tonnes of the port’s exported and imported cargo in 2020, which makes China by far its largest trading partner. Much of the coming impact will boil down to the movement –– or lack thereof –– of items bought from or sold to China._


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## keithb7 (Dec 28, 2006)

I'm in Kamloops. We're high and dry. Although not completely out of the woods, as each year we live with wildfire anxiety. We are right on the edge of the forrest greenbelt. The last several summers have been scary. Summers a write-off with thick smoke. Now this regional flooding. Damn what a mess. Add the pandemic. It's been somewhat concerning around here. I'm convinced climate change is a big factor. We're definitely seeing more extreme weather events. A couple of weeks ago a tornado touched ground at UBC. A month ago the largest Pacific NW storm was ever recorded. A container ship lost like 120 or so full sea cans overboard. Then there was the the heat dome in July. I saw 48C here in Kamloops. Unprecedented. At times I wonder if we're going to h e l l in a hand basket. It feels like it sometimes.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

keithb7 said:


> I'm in Kamloops. We're high and dry. Although not completely out of the woods, as each year we live with wildfire anxiety. We are right on the edge of the forrest greenbelt. The last several summers have been scary. Summers a write-off with thick smoke. Now this regional flooding. Damn what a mess. Add the pandemic. It's been somewhat concerning around here. I'm convinced climate change is a big factor. We're definitely seeing more extreme weather events. A couple of weeks ago a tornado touched ground at UBC. A month ago the largest Pacific NW storm was ever recorded. A container ship lost like 120 or so full sea cans overboard. Then there was the the heat dome in July. I saw 48C here in Kamloops. Unprecedented. At times I wonder if we're going to h e l l in a hand basket. It feels like it sometimes.


Even if we could all agree on what steps to take, and which are most important, the sad fact is that we can't just "fix" this the way we might fix a dripping tap, a buzzing guitar, or a squeaky door. The gap between big-picture scholarly notions, derived from studying long-term trends, and daily life is so huge it impedes taking action. Models of economic growth and regulation all make sense on the blackboard and over time, but the models don't put food on my table tomorrow or pay this month's rent. Models of climate change and what contributes to it also make sense in terms of big picture, but there's nothing anyone at any level can do next week that can insure a livable summer next year. "Fixing" this becomes a bit like putting money away every paycheck for the education of a great great grandchild whom you will never live to see.  It's a good cause, and no one is expecting any individual to fix it all themselves, but the incredible distance of the desired outcome makes it hard for people to get and remain motivated.

Learning theorists from Skinner on up noted that when the gap between an action A and some consequence B increases, or B only happens after a_ lot _of A, or is otherwise poorly correlated (e.g., sometimes B follows A, sometimes it doesn't and sometimes B just comes out of nowhere, without A), you tend to get very little A, whether it's a rat, a pigeon, a dog, or a person. We need to see tangible outcomes to remain motivated, preferably contingent on our actions, and preferably soon after those actions, and this is not the context where we're liable to see any. We could all start doing all the right things tomorrow, and the lag between those actions and the climate consequences would make it all seem pointless. Of course, the reason why we're in the pickle we're in is because the lag between doing all the *wrong* things for so many years, and the climate consequences we ended up facing, led our predecessors to keep doing all the wrong things.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Paul Running said:


> Mother Nature is taking back what we humans tried to take away.
> 
> View attachment 388097


Stave Lake in this image never changes size through the dates shown. It has been a BC Hydo reservoir for many years since the 1920s and would have been much smaller prior to the 1924 time frame. Also not sure what the 1894 map is meant to show-the whole region was under water? And where is the flood info from 1948? This was a massive flood and affected the region for months. Not really sure what this map is meant to portray other than some inaccuracies.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

BGood said:


> That is about 200km from the ocean ...


The coastal areas are 200 km from the ocean?

Weird.

I'm familiar with the general area.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Milkman said:


> The coastal areas are 200 km from the ocean?
> 
> Weird.
> 
> I'm familiar with the general area.


Weren't we talking about what is happening in Merrit ?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

BGood said:


> Weren't we talking about what is happening in Merrit ?


We were talking about what is happening in BC.

All I said was coastal areas would be impacted more and more (in so many words).

Don't recall implying that Merrit was on the coast.

I know where Merrit is and I know where the coast is.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

LanceT said:


> Stave Lake in this image never changes size through the dates shown. It has been a BC Hydo reservoir for many years since the 1920s and would have been much smaller prior to the 1924 time frame. Also not sure what the 1894 map is meant to show-the whole region was under water? And where is the flood info from 1948? This was a massive flood and affected the region for months. Not really sure what this map is meant to portray other than some inaccuracies.


Map was from Wiki. From what I have read the draining of Lake Sumas was not a wise project...indigenous people thought the white man was crazy...should have left it as a wild life sanctuary. To begin with, parts of the Fraser Valley are at or below sea-level...not good for rising sea level conditions...better to settle in other parts of the country to avoid flooding.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Milkman said:


> We were talking about what is happening in BC.
> 
> All I said was coastal areas would be impacted more and more (in so many words).
> 
> ...


Sorry if that came off a bit pissy.

I'm sure we're all hoping our friends in BC are safe and well. As I've mentioned, my son lives in Squamish.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Paul Running said:


> Map was from Wiki. From what I have read the draining of Lake Sumas was not a wise project...indigenous people thought the white man was crazy...should have left it as a wild life sanctuary. To begin with, parts of the Fraser Valley are at or below sea-level...not good for rising sea level conditions...better to settle in other parts of the country to avoid flooding.


I stand corrected on one point-the 1894 flood was real. I don't think areas of the Fraser Valley are below sea level but don't really know, and to that point, this was not a tidal event but an extreme rainfall event.


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## Stephenlouis (Jun 24, 2019)

__





Real-Time Hydrometric Data Map Search - Water Level and Flow - Environment Canada







wateroffice.ec.gc.ca













Fraser River freshet 2021 to be shaped by weather patterns in weeks to come – Agassiz Harrison Observer


Fraser snow basin index at 116 per cent above normal on April 1, according to River Forecast Centre




www.agassizharrisonobserver.com





The scientists had a pretty good Idea this could/would happen. Does not translate into practical application until after the fact usually.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Stephenlouis said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Same way kids won't pick up their dirty clothes and put them in the laundry hamper until they completely run out of stuff to wear. Prompt conscientious action is too often trumped by "Awwwww man, do I *haveta*?".


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

Stephenlouis said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, the city of Abbottsford has a 188 page report warning that although a small flood such as that of 1990 could be contained, a larger one that breached dikes had the potential to refill Sumas Lake and leave parts of Sumas Prairie under more than three metres of water, submerging homes, destroying property, killing livestock and compromising food stock for those who depend upon the region for agriculture.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul Running said:


> Yeah, the city of Abbottsford has a 188 page report warning that although a small flood such as that of 1990 could be contained, a larger one that breached dikes had the potential to refill Sumas Lake and leave parts of Sumas Prairie under more than three metres of water, submerging homes, destroying property, killing livestock and compromising food stock for those who depend upon the region for agriculture.



three meters......10 ft

Wow.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)

Pictures of some of the devastation here. This is going to take a while to fix.

Emergency Flooding Event - November 2021


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Sneaky said:


> Pictures of some of the devastation here. This is going to take a while to fix.
> 
> Emergency Flooding Event - November 2021


One can always find a bit of humour in a disaster.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

It never ceases to amaze me about how quickly this planet can shrug and put Mankind in his place.


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## mawmow (Nov 14, 2017)

That is totally horrible !


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

allthumbs56 said:


> It never ceases to amaze me about how quickly this planet can shrug and put Mankind in his place.


We're just dandruff really.


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## Paul Running (Apr 12, 2020)

and an application of selenium sulfide could wipe us out.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Paul Running said:


> and an application of selenium sulfide could wipe us out.


Not if you're head and shoulders above the fray!


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

BGood said:


> That is about 200km from the ocean ...


The whole Fraser Valley is a flood plain pretty much to Hope and beyond , The Thompson Valley flows into there as well. There is a lot of water heading that way, Google the tail out of the Fraser River into the Pacific on a good year. This is a major watershed backing up. This has only started!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

laristotle said:


> One can always find a bit of humour in a disaster.
> View attachment 388330


Grim humour indeed, but the Beaverton had a good one, if you can set aside all the misery and anguish.








BC Ferries launches new route to Kamloops


The Beaverton - North America's Most Trusted Source of News




www.thebeaverton.com


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## dgreen (Sep 3, 2016)

for those interested, a good short morning read with your java. It accounts for the historic changes of sumas lake to farm land. I have spent all 61 years of my life in this area and I can say this article nails it 








Abbotsford's flood crisis could revive Sumas Lake - Fraser Valley Current


Sumas Lake once covered much of the Fraser Valley's fertile farmland. This is the story of how it disappeared, how it could re-appear, and some of the challenges ahead.




fvcurrent.com


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Milkman said:


> three meters......10 ft
> 
> Wow.


I'm not familiar with the area... is there a lake that was drained many years ago and turned into farm land, and now it's flooded?


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

tomee2 said:


> I'm not familiar with the area... is there a lake that was drained many years ago and turned into farm land, and now it's flooded?


Article posted right above yours explains it all in detail but pretty much yep.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

As debris gets cleared and water slowly drains off, I would imagine the same thing will happen in BC that happened down south after various floods and hurricanes. And that is a certain degree of wariness about 2nd hand cars. That is, was this car flooded and (mostly but not completely) dried off?

And just out of curiosity, do electric cars recover after such floods better or worse than combustion-engine cars?


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## pat6969 (Feb 4, 2013)

The sumac valley used to be one big lake until it was drained to make habitable land. It’s very unfortunate but when you drain a natural body of water there’s a good chance Mother Nature is going to want it back one day.


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

Now we're under gas rationing. No more than 30 litres per gas station visit until Dec.1.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

LanceT said:


> Now we're under gas rationing. No more than 30 litres per gas station visit until Dec.1.


Harsh, but then how far can anyone drive at the moment?


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## LanceT (Mar 7, 2014)

mhammer said:


> Harsh, but then how far can anyone drive at the moment?


To work?


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

mhammer said:


> Harsh, but then how far can anyone drive at the moment?


The main routes to deliver things like gas are cut off for large areas but people in most of the non flooded cities, like Vancouver, and on Vancouver island still have drivable roads. 
There is flooding as bad as it's ever been in the province, but the whole province isn't flooded.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

LanceT said:


> To work?


Understood, but how far does one drive to work? 30 llitres should ideally allow one at least a few days of practical driving, and one might assume that a) "filling up" with 30l every few days is not a big hardship, and allows everyone t have *some* fuel, and that b) the limit won't have to last a very long time as roads get restored and tankers can come through. I certainly don't expect it to happen overnight, but I also don't see it lasting for months. After all, the trucks and other vehicles involved in the reconstruction also need fuel. But if you have an 20ft RV, to quote Dylan, you ain't goin' nowhere.


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

...and, as one may expect, panic buying at the pumps with disregard for the 30l limit (its supposed to be the honour system):
Panic buying kicks in as gas rationing begins on B.C. south coast 
This will be worse than the toilet paper hoarding last year!!
Isn't there some way to set the pumps to auto-cut off after 30 litres??


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

DavidP said:


> Isn't there some way to set the pumps to auto-cut off after 30 litres??


There should be for at least some of them. When I'm at a pay-before-you-pump place, I go inside and tell them how much I want, and the pump automatically slows down as it approaches my requested volume, and shuts off at exactly the amount.

Of course, that only pertains to the few pumps that work that way.


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