# music business programs in toronto - harris vs trebas vs metalworks



## snacker

hey everyone,
i have a student that's interested in going to school for music management / marketing / business - she's looking at harris institute, trebas and metalworks - any of you have experience with any of those programs?
thanks


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## Andy

A friend of mine graduated from Harris and got an excellent job as a laser tech, but basically said that type of school/program is worthless -- 90% of the students get the same intern job upon graduating that they could have gotten straight out of high school.

Personally, I considered OIART for Audio Engineering, but decided against it for the same reason. If it were me, I'd steer clear of the music industry -- I'll most likely end up in marketing, multimedia or design.


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## keeperofthegood

Andy said:


> A friend of mine graduated from Harris and got an excellent job as a laser tech, but basically said that type of school/program is worthless -- 90% of the students get the same intern job upon graduating that they could have gotten straight out of high school.
> 
> Personally, I considered OIART for Audio Engineering, but decided against it for the same reason. If it were me, I'd steer clear of the music industry -- I'll most likely end up in marketing, multimedia or design.


I have had friends say the same about trebas as well. That given the time and cost and outcome they would have done better with a general courses from a mainstream college or university. Personally, if I had the money and time, I would simply take night school classes at either Mohawk or Sheridan (would assume Waterloo would offer much the same). Also have to realize that Business degrees/diplomas/certificates, in any guise, are one of the top 10 most useless papers to hold. Nothing like being in a line 1000 people deep of 4.0 Business majors, coop experienced, with references out the wazoo looking for the one position available at a company and having nothing to set you apart or above those others (that is paraphrasing any of a dozen articles on the topic online currently).


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## Guest

Andy said:


> A friend of mine graduated from Harris and got an excellent job as a laser tech, but basically said that type of school/program is worthless -- 90% of the students get the same intern job upon graduating that they could have gotten straight out of high school.
> 
> Personally, I considered OIART for Audio Engineering, but decided against it for the same reason. If it were me, I'd steer clear of the music industry -- I'll most likely end up in marketing, multimedia or design.


Singer from my old band is a Trebas grad and that lines up with his opinion as well. He said basically one guy in his year, the guy with the golden ears who really did amazing mixes, walked in to a full time job as a recording engineer out of school. Everyone else was left with unpaid internships in various positions in the music industry (he focused on the business aspect). He didn't think it was worth the cost.

I've heard good things from people who graduated from Mohawk's Applied Music program.

Personally, I'm very leery of private colleges like these music places -- they're run more like businesses and less like institutions of higher learning.


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## Sneaky

snacker said:


> hey everyone,
> i have a student that's interested in going to school for music management / marketing / business - she's looking at harris institute, trebas and metalworks - any of you have experience with any of those programs?
> thanks


I would never consider any of those places to learn the business side of music. They may be OK to learn the technical/production side of things.

I'd tell her to just get out there and do it. You don't need school to teach you how to do the other stuff. You need experience.


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## John Watt

Metalworks sounds interesting, a new school I never saw when I lived in Toronto the last time.
When I went to Niagara Falls to see the online and live, "all-Canada" band contest, last summer,
it was people from Metalworks providing and doing the sound, all half-phased. Very interesting.

I would advise spending money on equipment, recording on your own until you get your own sound.
That's best for you if it's ever your band, and having your own sound makes you a producer.
What's a studio challenge? I have yet to hear anyone with the tonal depth and stereo headphone movements,
that Jimi Hendrix created for "Electric Ladyland".
Another production challenge? The only Billboard hit, hitting number one, without bass guitar?
Prince, "When Doves Cry".


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## hardasmum

I attended Recording Arts Canada for Audio Engineering. Only three of us out of 17 are working in the industry. That being said most studios won't even consider someone for an internship position without a diploma from one of those schools unless they already have years of experience. 

Like any other "trade" program you need the basics and hands on experience in order to "apprentice" somewhere.

I also have a Social Science B.A. which was an extremely expensive piece of paper. Is it a "useless" piece of paper? Maybe, but I can tell you I have only been unemployed for three months in the last 20 years.


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## david henman

...i agree!



Sneaky said:


> I would never consider any of those places to learn the business side of music. They may be OK to learn the technical/production side of things.
> 
> I'd tell her to just get out there and do it. You don't need school to teach you how to do the other stuff. You need experience.


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## mastermensionz

[FONT=&quot]I went to Trebas. Not the worst money ever spent, but just not worth it. Everything was way too fast pace. For example one teacher taught three courses one right after the next. And we didn’t know when one class finished and when the next started and what assignment belonged to which course. One chick at the back of the class couldn’t handle the stress anymore and just broke down in tears one day. Only 5 people out of the 20 something in the class graduated. My advice, don't invest in music unless you plan on going really really big. Everyone wants to be the next big thing whether at a Michael Jackson type level or working at Sony BMG as an AR rep, but people don't know that it is hard and a really cutthroat business to be in. Music makes money on live performance at a grand level like a U2 concert or if you want to find litigation. For everything else there is ITunes. My advice if you want to get big in the music business, learn Ableton Live to the death, become a songwriter so maybe that one day u can get royalty radio-playback money if success happens to bite you in your ass. Post your tracks on Youtube – the virtual entertainment stock market where investors may one day approach to buy your act. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]This is how you know if your worth it or not. Any idiot can record music in their home or car. Studios are selling their equipment on CraigsList and Kijiji, because the majority of audience could care less if the music was recorded in the bathroom. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Otherwise in the meantime, time is money. Focus on internet media - start an internet marketing business by taking some web design. Buy yourself a HD Camera. Be creative with your online tools and resources. Music is not profitable because it's everywhere and easy to make and download. It's leisure. Music business is out and internet media is in = ching ching $$$[/FONT]


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## cwittler

I think an investment in any kind of education that bolsters and legitimizes your natural talents and apptitudes is a worth while investment. But a lot these "music industry" schools are selling a dream that doesn't exist, except for a very select and fortunate few. Before I attended any of these schools, I would find out who their industry contacts and alumnists are. For example, Robert Plant appears in Trebas marketing. But what is Robert Plant going to do for you when you graduate from Trebas? Back in the '80s, I chose FullSail down in Florida over Trebas because the industry connections behind FullSail were all stellar. The guest speakers and trainers were all top drawer industry people behind some big names active in the business. They were all heavy hitters and they were all people who when they saw or heard you attended FullSail, they would answer their phone when you called. They would book you an appointment to see them when you asked for it. And they would not only keep these appointments, they would open the door to their office and greet you personally when you got there. Any educational institution that can give you that is worth every penny you pay!!!


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## John Harris

Media Arts Education in Canada - A Report Card
http://jimlamarche.wordpress.com/


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## Guest

John Harris said:


> Media Arts Education in Canada - A Report Card
> http://jimlamarche.wordpress.com/


That was a pretty cool write up.


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## STech12345

Be really careful with your parent's money! Harris has some great teachers but the majority of the staff are bullying, rude and are still teaching the same material they were 20 years ago. The founder of the school in particular is very shady. I guess people like that always are. If you have that much money to blow I suggest investing it in an internship at the place you actually wanna work. 

These places are only in it to get your money and keep the founder's buddies in a job. 

Just look at the TERRIBLE Harris Institute website - if they can't invest money in an up to date website what do you expect from their courses? Exactly... you're gonna get photocopies of old handouts that haven't been updated since 1997.

Just because a teacher at one of these places is a "leader" in their field, doesn't make them a good teacher. 

The only benefit I got out of it was my friendship with the other suckers who signed up to the course. Couldn't wait for it to be over to be honest.


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## Budda

Another option, as someone who is somewhat involved in the industry (but not much from a personal standpoint):

Make a touring band, and manage that. I think most people with years experience in the biz started out as a tech or managed to get X band a leg up. I don't know what our band's producer did before touring, but the jobs he gets now (live guitarist, guitar tech) are reasonably high profile.

Slug it in the trenches til it makes some sense, then change positions (from band member to manager etc). 

There's also lots of valuable resources online, and having good contacts is key.


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