# Anyone Get Ripped Off Buying Online?



## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I screwed up the last week and I got taken. I got some back, with the balance supposed to get back tomorrow.

Never ever use bank transfers. 9 times out of 10 you'll get screwed out of your cash.


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## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

That sucks. Did you buy from a store, or was it Kijiji-like?

My wife recently was furious with an online purchase from a web retailer. What she received was nothing like what was advertised. Turned out they made a shipping mistake. They apologized up and down for it, and quickly sent her the correct item.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

player99 said:


> I screwed up the last week and I got taken. I got some back, with the balance supposed to get back tomorrow.
> 
> Never ever use bank transfers. 9 times out of 10 you'll get screwed out of your cash.


An email transfer is essentially the same as giving someone a check. If you don’t trust the person to give you a check, then don’t take a transfer either. 


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Nope.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Never personally ripped off. Had issues that were eventually resolved. I don’t do many online deals though. I’m a bit of a skeptic by nature and if something doesn’t feel right I pass. Plus, the level of risk I’m willing to take varies greatly depending on the $ involved.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

The guy was really good at it. Knew exactly what to say, had the scam down. It you advertise that you are looking for something it will attract the scammers. I am lucky to get my money back, but it's because I dug in and contacted the banks and the police.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Exactly how was an EMT a scam? I used to work for a bank and once an EMT is complete (money accepted and in the other person's account) there is no recourse to reverse it.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Exactly how was an EMT a scam? I used to work for a bank and once an EMT is complete (money accepted and in the other person's account) there is no recourse to reverse it.


If the person lies to you to trick you to send money under fraudulent pretenses then it is a scam. The transfer is not a scam, but the interaction is completed under false pretenses. In my case he texted me false information right at the start, so I have proof there was never any good will on his end.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

JBFairthorne said:


> Never personally ripped off. Had issues that were eventually resolved. I don’t do many online deals though. I’m a bit of a skeptic by nature and if something doesn’t feel right I pass. Plus, the level of risk I’m willing to take varies greatly depending on the $ involved.


If I can't touch it or drive it before I buy it, I don't. And same with if I can't get something when I need it.....I don't buy on line. I might have bought 5 things online over the years, 4 were for the grand daughters, one was a rip off but it was under $5 including shipping.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Ricktoberfest said:


> An email transfer is essentially the same as giving someone a check. If you don’t trust the person to give you a check, then don’t take a transfer either.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not true. A cheque can bounce or have a stop payment placed on it. There's a clearing time. Once an EMT is sent and accepted on the receiving end that's it. An EMT is more like mailing an envelope full of cash to someone.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

player99 said:


> If the person lies to you to trick you to send money under fraudulent pretenses then it is a scam. The transfer is not a scam, but the interaction is completed under false pretenses. In my case he texted me false information right at the start, so I have proof there was never any good will on his end.


Ah, ok so they conned you into sending an EMT for an item that they never had any intent on following through with.

It's an extreme risk doing any sort of distance deal through Kijiji or Facebook marketplace for that reason. There's no recourse if the seller doesn't hold up their end. That's why places like Reverb and eBay can act as a third party to mitigate that risk. I can't say I haven't done it myself but I got lucky and it went fine.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Sorry to hear. Was it in Kijiji? There are a lot of scrupulous people waiting to take advantage. I don't usually deal in Kijiji and if I do, I make sure I don't give them any money until I see them personally.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Not true. A cheque can bounce or have a stop payment placed on it. There's a clearing time. Once an EMT is sent and accepted on the receiving end that's it. An EMT is more like mailing an envelope full of cash to someone.


Actually not true. Family member works in a bank and they have other banks reverse EMTs all the time. If the money in the original account was there fraudulently then the originating bank can claw it back after the “transfer”. It’s a common form of fraud



Can’t say much more than that but believe me, it’s not a secure way to get money from a stranger. 

Edit: removed the how to. I realize it’s been quoted but I can’t do anything about that.

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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Exactly how was an EMT a scam? I used to work for a bank and once an EMT is complete (money accepted and in the other person's account) there is no recourse to reverse it.


See my post right above this


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Ricktoberfest said:


> Actually not true. Family member works in a bank and they have other banks reverse EMTs all the time. If the money in the original account was there fraudulently then the originating bank can claw it back after the “transfer”. It’s a common form of fraud
> 
> 1st person deposits fake cheque into bank. Immediately EMTs the cash back portion. 2nd person then spends the money but the first bank flags the transfer as fraud and claws back the transfer. 2nd bank takes the money from the receiver as per their policy.
> 
> ...


I need to cancel a transfer, but the recipient has already accepted the deposit. How do I reverse an Interac e-Transfer transaction? | Interac



> *I need to cancel a transfer, but the recipient has already accepted the deposit. How do I reverse an Interac e-Transfer transaction?*
> 
> Unfortunately, once a deposit has been made there is no way to reverse the transaction. You’ll have to make arrangements directly with the recipient. You should only send money transfers to parties you know and trust. For most _Interac_ e-Transfer uses (sending money to family and friends, repaying IOUs, sending money as gifts, etc.), you will know the recipient well. For uses where you may not know the recipient (e.g., online auction purchases), take the same precautions you would take when making cash purchases. For online auctions and purchases, be sure to read and follow any steps recommended by the operators of these websites to safely transact.


I worked for RBC for seven years. In the scenario you described the person who deposited the cheque and used money against their deposit release would have their account go into an overdrawn balance after the cheque is bounced. The bank would not turn around and reverse the subsequent EMT because they are two separate transactions. The same thing would happen if the person deposited a cheque, then withdrew cash, and then the cheque bounced.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> I need to cancel a transfer, but the recipient has already accepted the deposit. How do I reverse an Interac e-Transfer transaction? | Interac


That’s the person trying to cancel it. The bank can cancel it if they need to due to the money not really being there


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

Ricktoberfest said:


> That’s the person trying to cancel it. The bank can cancel it if they need to due to the money not really being there
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/rbc-customer-out-of-pocket-after-e-transfer-fraud-1.5128114



I know this is an intercepted transfer, but the security issues are still there. As in not secure


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Ricktoberfest said:


> https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/rbc-customer-out-of-pocket-after-e-transfer-fraud-1.5128114
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_"An RBC manager says an internal investigation indicated that Fearnley's email account had been hacked, and when Hoover sent the e-transfer, the fraudster figured out the answer for the security question necessary to deposit the money, and then redirected it to a different bank account."_

Not the same thing at all.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Ricktoberfest said:


> That’s the person trying to cancel it. The bank can cancel it if they need to due to the money not really being there
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No they cannot, and will not. The account holder who deposited the cheque and then sent the money is the one on the hook.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

Ok. Well I KNOW this, but my point was to warn you about it’s lack of security. I don’t care if you’re convinced or not. This isn’t some news report that I am referencing to know, it’s personal. And it was the receiving person who had to pay because the originating person’s account is a “throw away”. 

I still accept email transfers, but only if I have info about the person that can be tracked in the “real” world that can be given to police or collected on somehow. 


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> _"An RBC manager says an internal investigation indicated that Fearnley's email account had been hacked, and when Hoover sent the e-transfer, the fraudster figured out the answer for the security question necessary to deposit the money, and then redirected it to a different bank account."_
> 
> Not the same thing at all.


Which is why i edited my first post. I’m on my phone on a break and so linked the first news story without fully reading it. Doesn’t change the original warning. 
EMT is not as secure as you think. 


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

player99 said:


> I screwed up the last week and I got taken. I got some back, with the balance supposed to get back tomorrow.
> 
> *Never ever use bank transfers. 9 times out of 10 you'll get screwed out of your cash.*


Not true. I must have conducted 100 sales where I required EMT and 100 times out of 100 times the people I sold to did not get ripped off. Including a hand full of Kijiji users I didn't know, some of who were out of province. The biggest sale I made was my Masterbuilt Nocaster sold to a guy in Quebec. They all paid EMT. I always encourage them to call me and talk for a bit. Usually makes them feel comfortable. Although I had one guy that didn't want to be bothered calling me (it was for something worth about $1,000) and just sent the EMT. Trusting soul. 
As a seller I've just heard too many stories about sellers going through nightmare situations with Paypal\Reverb\Ebay. So if I can't get someone to pay EMT I'd rather just sell it local. Of course much of what I sell I don't care how long it takes or if it sells.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

My guy was really slick. I had a "wanted to buy" ad posted in Ottawa. He answers the ad asking for my phone to text me some pictures. He texted me pictures of what I wanted. Then he says come and pick up at: and give me an address from a city too far. When I text back I am in Ottawa he says "Sorry I thought you were from XXX." So then it moved on to PayPal and then after his girlfriend looked into getting a PayPal account and it would be some time to get the money, e-transfer entered the game. He also had given me a really good price because he needed the cash that night. So it wasn't until a few days later that I got suspicious and Google Map'd his address. It is a field with no houses around. LOL. So he knew from the start I was in Ottawa, and gave me a fake address to come over and get the item. Because he said come over and pick it up at this address, I never questioned it. If he would have given me a real street address with an actual dwelling at the address I wouldn't have known for sure he was ripping me off.


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## Buzz (May 15, 2008)

I sold a synth on Reverb almost a month ago, being a first time seller I still havent got the money on my account. No response to my emails.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Buzz said:


> I sold a synth on Reverb almost a month ago, being a first time seller I still havent got the money on my account. No response to my emails.


Does the tracking show as delivered?


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Exactly how was an EMT a scam? I used to work for a bank and once an EMT is complete (money accepted and in the other person's account) there is no recourse to reverse it.


I know of several people who have had EMT's reversed after scams have taken place. You need to be able to convince them you got ripped off, but they have no issue going to the other financial institution and clawing the money back.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

Okay Player said:


> I know of several people who have had EMT's reversed after scams have taken place. You need to be able to convince them you got ripped off, but they have no issue going to the other financial institution and clawing the money back.


People think that the transfers are nearly instantaneous, but they aren’t. The money appearing in your account is from your bank basically saying, we trust you and know you so we can always get this money back if we need to. Fraudsters don’t use their own accounts so the bank has no recourse to get their money back except from the person who “accepted” it. 

If you think of an EMT as a cheque, requiring a certain amount of days to complete, then you shouldn’t have a problem. The problems start when you spend that money immediately, or send a refund back (overpayment scam), or mail away the item sold before it really clears. Just like if someone sent you a cheque that turned out to be NSF. 


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Ricktoberfest said:


> People think that the transfers are nearly instantaneous, but they aren’t. The money appearing in your account is from your bank basically saying, we trust you and know you so we can always get this money back if we need to. Fraudsters don’t use their own accounts so the bank has no recourse to get their money back except from the person who “accepted” it.
> 
> If you think of an EMT as a cheque, requiring a certain amount of days to complete, then you shouldn’t have a problem. The problems start when you spend that money immediately, or send a refund back (overpayment scam), or mail away the item sold before it really clears. Just like if someone sent you a cheque that turned out to be NSF.
> 
> ...


That's fundamentally incorrect but I don't seem to be able to convince you.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

There is very little banks can do you reclaim a deposited EMT with maybe the exception, of you both bank at the same bank, and the funds are still in the account. Your part about how it’s done with depositing a cheque is also not correct.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Ricktoberfest said:


> People think that the transfers are nearly instantaneous, but they aren’t. The money appearing in your account is from your bank basically saying, we trust you and know you so we can always get this money back if we need to. Fraudsters don’t use their own accounts so the bank has no recourse to get their money back except from the person who “accepted” it.
> 
> If you think of an EMT as a cheque, requiring a certain amount of days to complete, then you shouldn’t have a problem. The problems start when you spend that money immediately, or send a refund back (overpayment scam), or mail away the item sold before it really clears. Just like if someone sent you a cheque that turned out to be NSF.
> 
> ...


This is also incorrect.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

Anyway. Emts. Treat them like cash, and the same as you would treat PayPal ‘friends and family’.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Okay Player said:


> I know of several people who have had EMT's reversed after scams have taken place. You need to be able to convince them you got ripped off, but they have no issue going to the other financial institution and clawing the money back.


As long as the bank account is still there and viable after the trans action. Everything is done on line.


Ricktoberfest said:


> Fraudsters don’t use their own accounts so the bank has no recourse to get their money back except from the person who “accepted” it.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Kinda hard to do when there is no 'person who accepted it" to begin with. "People think that the transfers are nearly instantaneous, but they aren’t." for all intense purposes they are. The ex would send money to her daughters all the time and usually within half an hr the money was spent especially if it was for the grandson's birthdays or Xmas or things like that. 


player99 said:


> Then he says come and pick up at: and give me an address from a city too far. When I text back I am in Ottawa he says "Sorry I thought you were from XXX." So then it moved on to PayPal and then after his girlfriend looked into getting a PayPal account and it would be some time to get the money, e-transfer entered the game. He also had given me a really good price because he needed the cash that night.


At least 3 clues if not more right there. The "use paypal" when there's no paypal acct is a biggy along with the needing cash that night.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> As long as the bank account is still there and viable after the trans action. Everything is done on line.
> 
> Kinda hard to do when there is no 'person who accepted it" to begin with. "People think that the transfers are nearly instantaneous, but they aren’t." for all intense purposes they are. The ex would send money to her daughters all the time and usually within half an hr the money was spent especially if it was for the grandson's birthdays or Xmas or things like that.
> 
> At least 3 clues if not more right there. The "use paypal" when there's no paypal acct is a biggy along with the needing cash that night.


I asked about PP once he pretended to find out I was not in his city. He said his girlfriend would look into getting a pp account, then said it would take 30 days before the payment would clear the new account.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Just sayin’. There were red flags...at least for me.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

JBFairthorne said:


> Just sayin’. There were red flags...at least for me.


It's all one big red flag.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

The cops told me about the RCMP Canadian Anti Fraud Centre.





__





Canadian Anti-Fraud Centre







www.antifraudcentre-centreantifraude.ca


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> The cops told me about the RCMP Canadian Anti Fraud Centre.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As long as they're based out of Canada and/or are traceable.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

The thing you can do with EMT is come with a security answer so out there, nobody could hack it. Also, don't give the answer until you have the item. Then no scam. Usually the person will drop out of communication with those stipulations. Not entirely fool proof, but it's a major hurdle for them.


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## Ricktoberfest (Jun 22, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> As long as the bank account is still there and viable after the trans action. Everything is done on line.
> 
> Kinda hard to do when there is no 'person who accepted it" to begin with. "People think that the transfers are nearly instantaneous, but they aren’t." for all intense purposes they are. The ex would send money to her daughters all the time and usually within half an hr the money was spent especially if it was for the grandson's birthdays or Xmas or things like that.
> 
> At least 3 clues if not more right there. The "use paypal" when there's no paypal acct is a biggy along with the needing cash that night.


Again, your bank is essentially “loaning” you the money based on the fact that the other bank said there’s a deposit on its way. If for some reason the first bank changes its mind (like for example the funds are found to not be there) then they cancel the transfer, leaving your bank in the hole. Your bank then takes the money from you because it never really was yours to begin with. If you don’t have the money in your account anymore they have other ways of getting it. 

Very rarely will a bank lose money on a transaction. The only time they write that off is if you are a long time customer who will likely make them more money than they lose and you might leave them,!or if they feel that they made the mistake. 

I’ve said too much already. There’s a reason banks don’t talk about this kinda stuff and I’m already on the edge (or beyond) what I should say. I’m outta this thread. 


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Top secret....


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Gangster banksters. lol


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Ultimately unless someone is really good at identity theft, their real info is with the bank when they set up the account. Yes?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Ricktoberfest said:


> Again, your bank is essentially “loaning” you the money based on the fact that the other bank said there’s a deposit on its way. If for some reason the first bank changes its mind (like for example the funds are found to not be there) then they cancel the transfer, leaving your bank in the hole. Your bank then takes the money from you because it never really was yours to begin with. If you don’t have the money in your account anymore they have other ways of getting it.
> 
> Very rarely will a bank lose money on a transaction. The only time they write that off is if you are a long time customer who will likely make them more money than they lose and you might leave them,!or if they feel that they made the mistake.
> 
> ...


Only if the account is 'good' and there is a 'you' that they can find. If it's a nicely set up fraud then there's nobody to take the money from and you....the sender...can lose. BTW, I'm not too sure about your bank not talking about this but my bank, RBC, is quite open about this. Same as the cops except the cops will usually tell you to talk in person to your bank first.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> Ultimately unless someone is really good at identity theft, their real info is with the bank when they set up the account. Yes?


All the bank has is the info you give them and you don't have to be really good at identity theft.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> All the bank has is the info you give them and you don't have to be really good at identity theft.


But they need sin numbers and other id? I guess that can all be made up...


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Ricktoberfest said:


> Again, your bank is essentially “loaning” you the money based on the fact that the other bank said there’s a deposit on its way. If for some reason the first bank changes its mind (like for example the funds are found to not be there) then they cancel the transfer, leaving your bank in the hole. Your bank then takes the money from you because it never really was yours to begin with. If you don’t have the money in your account anymore they have other ways of getting it.
> 
> Very rarely will a bank lose money on a transaction. The only time they write that off is if you are a long time customer who will likely make them more money than they lose and you might leave them,!or if they feel that they made the mistake.
> 
> ...


Wrong.

I spent 7 years listening to customers tell me how the bank I work at works. Never gets old.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> But they need sin numbers and other id? I guess that can all be made up...


Go online and check out what you need to set up an acct.. Not too sure if you have to supply a SIN number for the TD. There are people who don't have a SIN card. You do need an address for them to send you a card tho.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Go online and check out what you need to set up an acct.. Not too sure if you have to supply a SIN number for the TD. There are people who don't have a SIN card. You do need an address for them to send you a card tho.


I just checked, TD needs SIN number.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

So what our friend @Ricktoberfest has described is the cheque clearing process. EMT's are NOT cheques. They do not and have never followed the same clearing or processing process.

I will explain it. Again, I worked for the largest financial institution in Canada for seven years (RBC).

First, something to be clear on. Interac is an electronic payment company. It's not just the name of what debit machines are called. Interac is the company that facilitates all the electronic purchasing transactions.

Aside from the old school wire system, banks do not and cannot directly send money to each other instantly. That's why cheques, money orders, and bank drafts exist. Enter Interac.

In an EMT (Electronic Money Transfer), Interac acts as a third party between two banks to facilitate an almost immediate electronic transfer of funds. Basically Bank #1 hands the money to Interac, and then Interac hands the money to Bank #2. This is done using the Interac payment system.

So let's say you bank with RBC. You want to send a payment to your friend. You initiate an EMT for $1000 and you tell your bank it's going to go to Brad Smith and his email address is [email protected]. RBC then takes $1000 out of your account and makes a payment to Interac and tells them who it's for.

Now Interac has the $1000. They send an email to [email protected] informing Brad that he's got an EMT waiting for him. Brad clicks the link and enters the secret password only you and him shared. Then he tells Interac where he wants the money to go. Interac then hands off the $1000 to Brad's bank and he tells them which account to put the money in. Once that's complete, Interac no longer has the money. RBC no longer has the money. It's a done deal.

Now for another scenario. You send the EMT but then you realize you made a mistake and you want it back. As long as Brad has not claimed it, then Interac still has the money. You can ask your bank to cancel the EMT and Interac will give the money back. If the other person has already claimed the EMT, then Interac no longer has the money. You can't ask for it back. It doesn't matter if you were duped or conned or the seller doesn't hold up their end.

Scenario 3: You had just deposited a cheque into your account and then you sent the EMT to Brad. He's accepted it and life seems good. Then, uh oh, two days later that cheque you deposited bounces! RBC takes that money back out of your account. Does RBC now take back the EMT? No, they cannot. That money is gone. Interac will not give it back to them even if they asked because they don't have it anymore. It's no different than if you had spent the money doing a debit purchase around town. RBC doesn't go around canceling all your transactions because they want their money back. Nope. What happens now is your account is overdrawn $1000 and RBC will have to recoup the money from you eventually.

An EMT is basically handing Interac an envelope full of cash and telling them who to give it to. Once they've given it to that person, it's gone. There's no clearing time. There's no way your bank can say oops we want it back.


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

I will also point out that I have worked for a bank for 10+ years, and am a manager in a department that deals with this on a daily basis. @Powdered Toast Man is correct, the other guy is all sorts of wrong and so is his relative who works for a bank.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> I just checked, TD needs SIN number.


By where it asks for a SIN there is a green dot with an exclamation mark. Click that and it says, "Providing your Social Insurance Number (SIN) is optional". That's why there's no * by it or by email address. Doesn't seem to be needed if the account doesn't give interest.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

@RBlakeney.......


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

player99 said:


> The guy was really good at it. Knew exactly what to say, had the scam down. It you advertise that you are looking for something it will attract the scammers. I am lucky to get my money back, but it's because I dug in and contacted the banks and the police.



Sounds familiar. I was tempted, it was a long distance sale, but something I really wanted and he responded to my WTB with a price that worked in shipping and still was a decent deal used. Im sure some of you remember my thread.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

A while back it was Airbandb scams. You'd rent a condo or something like that and when you get there the place wasn't empty or there or liveable. Or there were 10 people waiting. Usually by the time you discovered this the money was long gone.....most of the time these things are rented well in advance.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Verne said:


> The thing you can do with EMT is come with a security answer so out there, nobody could hack it. Also, don't give the answer until you have the item. Then no scam. Usually the person will drop out of communication with those stipulations. Not entirely fool proof, but it's a major hurdle for them.


Don't EMT's expire if not deposited sooner than something may arrive in the mail?


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

There was a guy who was in the news recently because he sold some sneakers on kijiji. Met the guy in person, got an EMT for around $1100 and everyone went on their way. A week or so later, seller gets the money taken back. Basically what happened is buyer fraudulently used someone else’s account. Real account holder notices a bunch of money gone. Bank says “oops”, pulls back the EMTs and gives him his money back. Sneaker seller says to bank “WTF?”, bank says “too bad”. Seller eventually argues that the fraud was because either the bank or the account holder effed up and had nothing to do with him. I think there were some red flags the bank had ignored and he got the money back.



Verne said:


> The thing you can do with EMT is come with a security answer so out there, nobody could hack it. Also, don't give the answer until you have the item. Then no scam. Usually the person will drop out of communication with those stipulations. Not entirely fool proof, but it's a major hurdle for them.


Another news story from last year. CBC news prints a sob story about a poor senior on a fixed income who sent her friend money and her friend never got it (because someone else claimed it) and now the mean old bank won’t refund them. Well it turns out that the recipient knew someone else had access to her emails and had not bothered doing anything about it. The security question the seller used was “Who is your favourite Beatle?”. I mean, that could take thousands of tries to guess, right? I don’t think she got her money back.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Yes I got ripped off recently buying online. I had to buy a part for my UTV from the states. The only shipping option was UPS. The shipping and brokerage cost as much as the part. Went from $350C to $600C. I kid you not.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Guitar101 said:


> Yes I got ripped off recently buying online. I had to buy a part for my UTV from the states. The only shipping option was UPS. The shipping and brokerage cost as much as the part. Went from $350C to $600C. I kid you not.


I bought a part for my printer $200USD. $700CAD in my hands.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Verne said:


> The thing you can do with EMT is come with a security answer so out there, nobody could hack it. Also, don't give the answer until you have the item. Then no scam. Usually the person will drop out of communication with those stipulations. Not entirely fool proof, but it's a major hurdle for them.



I would not send the item until the money was in my account.


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## Verne (Dec 29, 2018)

I didn't know this was being shipped. I was thinking more for an in person purchase. I have always been shy of buying online from a seller that needed shipping. Anything over an amount I'd deem something I could live with being lost. Call it gun shy, but I've missed some items of interest for this very reason. I'd be wary of sending money to anybody. I've always preferred in person sales/purchase. We know we're honest, but the other guy doesn't.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Verne said:


> I didn't know this was being shipped. I was thinking more for an in person purchase. I have always been shy of buying online from a seller that needed shipping. Anything over an amount I'd deem something I could live with being lost. Call it gun shy, but I've missed some items of interest for this very reason. I'd be wary of sending money to anybody. I've always preferred in person sales/purchase. We know we're honest, but the other guy doesn't.


That's fine if you are in a big city. It is feasible for you to drive to Toronto, for me it's an 8-10 hour round trip. I just got a $46 ETR bill from going there in August, and it was such a long haul for some high end studio monitors I won't ever drive there and back in one day again.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> So what our friend @Ricktoberfest has described is the cheque clearing process. EMT's are NOT cheques. They do not and have never followed the same clearing or processing process.
> 
> I will explain it. Again, I worked for the largest financial institution in Canada for seven years (RBC).
> 
> ...


All correct.

I suppose that, in the case of a definitive fraud (ie. a hack) then, after the banks get together and investigate and determine that something illegal has happened then steps could be taken. Saying "Reverse it cause the guy ripped me off" is not gonna initiate anything. Small claims court is probably your only recourse.

Sorry about how this is going Player. You must have wanted the item pretty bad - "I have to have the money tonight" should have been the clue to proceed with caution.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

allthumbs56 said:


> Sorry about how this is going Player. You must have wanted the item pretty bad - "I have to have the money tonight" should have been the clue to proceed with caution.


Yes the scam is pretty good. As I said before he acted like he thought my WTB ad was local and gave me an address to come pick up at. That's the beauty of it. I did get a partial refund yesterday, and the balance promised today. Fingers crossed.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Posting "wanted to buy" ads makes you a target.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

player99 said:


> The guy was really good at it. Knew exactly what to say, had the scam down. It you advertise that you are looking for something it will attract the scammers. I am lucky to get my money back, *but it's because I dug in and contacted the banks and the police.*


Funny. You hate the cops ............. until you need one. LOL

Closet copsucker, perhaps?


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

I had an EMT intercepted last week. Payment between friends, his email was compromised and a simple password was used. 
I'm thinking the only way to avoid this is to always use a random non word password and don't email it from the same account you sent the money with. Call it in.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

High/Deaf said:


> Funny. You hate the cops ............. until you need one. LOL
> 
> Closet copsucker, perhaps?


They are a tool to be used when needed. Unfortunately they are rogue. Hassling people, harvesting money from hard working Canadians, lying, stealing, cheating and even murdering. It's not "serve and protect", it's "harass and collect".

You can go back to your boot licking, since you aren't very good at playing guitar.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

player99 said:


> FFS STFU YSDMFC.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

High/Deaf said:


> View attachment 331367


Why do you pick fights and derail threads on a guitar forum when you can't play guitar?











^^^ You are bringing The Political Pundit threads into the open mic. So angry. Don't take it out on me that your guitar playing sucks.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Just a guess. Your name Alex?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

laristotle said:


> Just a guess. Your name Alex?


Here come the backup schoolyard bullies. Always ganging up, can't play guitar.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

player99 said:


> can't play guitar


I play bass.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

laristotle said:


> I play bass.


Exactly.

Get ready for the bully buddies to attempt to derail the thread, insult and bully me. I have seen it here many times. Predictable.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

What do you expect when you cut yourself up, searching for sympathy?
The sharks will attack when they smell blood.
Predictable.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Strange, I thought I was the guy who can't play guitar. Must be contagious. I've always figured (and it seems to go that way) that where it says at the top of the page, 'The Open Mic (None Music Related) means that anything goes. Until the fat lady sings. This thread here has little or nothing to do with playing guitar or, until you brought it up, any ones ability to play guitar. That could be termed insulting and bullying.
You play bass Larry? Sorry about that but at least you're not a drummer.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Strange, I thought I was the guy who can't play guitar. Must be contagious. I've always figured (and it seems to go that way) that where it says at the top of the page, 'The Open Mic (None Music Related) means that anything goes. Until the fat lady sings. This thread here has little or nothing to do with playing guitar or, until you brought it up, any ones ability to play guitar. That could be termed insulting and bullying.
> You play bass Larry? Sorry about that but at least you're not a drummer.
> View attachment 331370


Another one on the pile.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

laristotle said:


> What do you expect when you cut yourself up, searching for sympathy?
> The sharks will attack when they smell blood.
> Predictable.


Bullies justifying bullying. "Hey when I see someone down on their luck I know they are easy to target."


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

I would like to again point out the "cool kids" (bullies) are once again derailing one of my threads.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> Another one on the pile.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

You guys know banks do provide some info on how not to get scammed, right?

Also, follow your gut.

Also, send me some money. You'll get that great feeling of helping somebody out.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Budda said:


> You guys know banks do provide some info on how not to get scammed, right?
> 
> Also, follow your gut.
> 
> Also, send me some money. You'll get that great feeling of helping somebody out.


I can vouch for Budda - he's solid. You can go ahead and send him money without fear. 👍


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Double


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> You guys know banks do provide some info on how not to get scammed, right?
> 
> Also, follow your gut.
> 
> Also, send me some money. You'll get that great feeling of helping somebody out.


All you have to do is walk in and ask....or go onto your banks online site. They'll even give you or send you leaflets about it. Speaking of sending things, because I don't do emt's or paypal, the cheque is in the mail. It's good, trust me but I wrote it for more than I wanted to pay so just deposit it in your bank account and emt/interact half of it back to the account I'll send you after I set one up. It will be in my girlfriends name but don't worry about that. I'll send you a phone number too so you can text me the password. That's in my girlfriends name too. And could you do that fast 'cause my girlfriend's been arrested and I have to pay the fine.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Phone call will always help these situations. I haven’t sent anyone money over Kijiji or FB, but in the last three months I sold a $3400 amp and a Paisley tele and received EMT and shipped the guitar/amp.

Both times, one guy in Montreal and the other in Toronto, they wanted to arrange a phone call which was no problem. We talked, they asked questions that would be telling if I had an inkling of what the gear actually was and if I somewhat knew what I was doing. 

We exchanged texts and pics as well. EMT, item shipped, pleasantries exchanged, away we go.

It would suck to live never trusting anyone while living in fear just as much as it’s easy to vet scammers with a bit of due diligence.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> I can vouch for Budda - he's solid. You can go ahead and send him money without fear. 👍


Ok, if you say so, I'll trust your word.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

tdotrob said:


> Phone call will always help these situations. I haven’t sent anyone money over Kijiji or FB, but in the last three months I sold a $3400 amp and a Paisley tele and received EMT and shipped the guitar/amp.
> 
> Both times, one guy in Montreal and the other in Toronto, they wanted to arrange a phone call which was no problem. We talked, they asked questions that would be telling if I had an inkling of what the gear actually was and if I somewhat knew what I was doing.
> 
> ...


When I sold the '81 the guy answered the ad, emailed and the phoned for an address and about 7 hrs. or so later showed up with trailer behind his truck and then went to the bank and drew out the cash. 
I guess some people don't trust anyone and figure that everyone is out to get them.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

You know, when a bunch of people are kinda giving you the same message, it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re bullies. Maybe it just means they see what you are either unwilling or unable to see.

It always makes my day hearing a grown man complain about being bullied. Oh, what it must have been like for you when you were of the age when you actually DID get bullied.

Frankly, I was trying to be nice and deleted a huge portion of my original post but basically it came down to this. Maybe you always feel like you’re being cheated because you’re impulsive, ignore the warning signs, do stupid shit, don’t take a few minutes and stop and think about something before taking the plunge. It could be any number of reasons. Maybe the problem is you....not everyone else? When a person finds themselves in a similar situation again and again, maybe they’re the cause.

To be fair, there are situations in my own life that I find myself in again and again. While I’m still not sure exactly HOW I did it, I have to assume that I’m the reason it keeps happening. Plenty of other people manage in this same world without being in that spot.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

JBFairthorne said:


> To be fair, there are situations in my own life that I find myself in again and again. While I’m still not sure exactly HOW I did it, I have to assume that I’m the reason it keeps happening. Plenty of other people manage in this same world without being in that spot.


Happens to everyone all the time. Hell, I've been married three times.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

JBFairthorne said:


> You know, when a bunch of people are kinda giving you the same message, it doesn’t necessarily mean they’re bullies. Maybe it just means they see what you are either unwilling or unable to see.
> 
> It always makes my day hearing a grown man complain about being bullied. Oh, what it must have been like for you when you were of the age when you actually DID get bullied.
> 
> ...


You are another one of the bullies. I don't want you to give me any of your passive aggressive gaslighting. Just because your guitar playing is terrible, go practice. I can go back to many of my threads and posts where you and your "buddies" always try to insult, derail, gaslight and bully.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Doesn’t it get exhausting being the victim all the time?

I would love to know wtf happened to you to make you like this.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

JBFairthorne said:


> Doesn’t it get exhausting being the victim all the time?
> 
> I would love to know wtf happened to you to make you like this.


Doesn't it suck to not be able to play guitar very well and have a prostate the size of a grapefruit?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

JBFairthorne said:


> Doesn’t it get exhausting being the victim all the time?
> 
> I would love to know wtf happened to you to make you like this.


Gaslighting. Don't try to project your naritive on me. I am only documenting your behavior. I can out play you on guitar, and that is important to me. Your gaslighting is a joke to me.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Budda gave you the thumbs up. He is also part of the little bully gang. There are thousands and thousands of members here, but the same 10 or so member always pile on to insult and gaslight my posts and threads. The guys that can play guitar don't do it. You guys are so obvious.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

5, 4, 3, 2, 1...


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

You’ve got a lot of opinions about people’s guitar playing that you’ve never heard. It’s actually kind of sad that you have so little in your life that that sort of thing is important to you.

The thing is, regardless of our playing, we can always improve and I’m sure all of us do so all the time. You don’t seem to be gettting any smarter or wiser though. Gawd I would so LOVE to meet you in person. It would be a trip.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

This thread is very strange.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Indeed....yet strangely familiar.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

Verne said:


> The thing you can do with EMT is come with a security answer so out there, nobody could hack it. Also, don't give the answer until you have the item. Then no scam. Usually the person will drop out of communication with those stipulations. Not entirely fool proof, but it's a major hurdle for them.


I was reading through the thread to see when this option was mentioned. I am seeing this option come up frequently when doing transactions with anyone you don't know well.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

tomee2 said:


> I had an EMT intercepted last week. Payment between friends, his email was compromised and a simple password was used.
> I'm thinking the only way to avoid this is to always use a random non word password and don't email it from the same account you sent the money with. Call it in.


I never email passwords for anything. Even with my rent payments, I still swap the password every month and text the landlord my new password. There's no context to the text even as an extra step. He just knows it's coming.

This goes beyond emt's, with my web work I do I never email clients credentials for anything, unless the odd time when they are in a password protected zip file (which I text the password for).


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> Doesn't it suck to not be able to play guitar very well and have a prostate the size of a grapefruit?


As long as the player is satisfied with his or her playing that's all that matters. As far as prostate size goes, that ends up being a problem for most guys....that's why they say get examined....same as women with mammograms, so your time could be coming especially if you're over 50. And yes, to answer your question, having an enlarged prostate of any size does suck. Here's a thought, instead of commenting on peoples ability to play, go get examined.


player99 said:


> Budda gave you the thumbs up. He is also part of the little bully gang. There are thousands and thousands of members here, but the same 10 or so member always pile on to insult and gaslight my posts and threads. The guys that can play guitar don't do it. You guys are so obvious.


Hey Budda, what you doing in a band if you can't play? Shame on you. As far as members go, there might be thousands and thousands from day one but active right now is a bit smaller number. Not too sure how to find out but at any given time it's probably around 100 or so. 


JBFairthorne said:


> . You don’t seem to be gettting any smarter or wiser though. Gawd I would so LOVE to meet you in person. It would be a trip.


Meeting him would be like meeting the little dog in the manger.


torndownunit said:


> I never email passwords for anything. Even with my rent payments, I still swap the password every month and text the landlord my new password. There's no context to the text even as an extra step. He just knows it's coming.
> 
> This goes beyond emt's, with my web work I do I never email clients credentials for anything, unless the odd time when they are in a password protected zip file (which I text the password for).


When I pay my rent it's cash.....that's the way we both want it. When I pay my Rogers account and the Lucky account I buy a prepaid credit card. When my ex would send money to her kids she'd use something that only that specific person would know as the password and that was sent in a seperate email or phonecall. Using what I called my son in law would probably have been easy to figure out.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

tdotrob said:


> This thread is very strange.


The same 10 guys are always trying to gaslight my threads. I call them out. There are 10 or 20 thousand members here, but the same guys always post crap. As I said, I am just calling them out.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> The same 10 guys are always trying to gaslight my threads. I call them out. There are 10 or 20 thousand members here, but the same guys always post crap. As I said, I am just calling them out.


Where do you get 10 or 20 thousand? That's one hell of a split. It says just under 12,000 but that's since 2005. I'd say if you went thru that members list you'd find quite a few who have moved on in one form or another and quite a few who haven't posted anything for at least 3 years and the ones who are here for a day or two and that's it. That being said, if there are just under 12,000 members here the you would figure you would have some support. I don't see any. Could mean that a lot of the members that are here don't care about your thread so you're stuck with the 23 that are here. BTW, if we are gaslighting your threads, are you questioning your own memory, perception, or judgment?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Where do you get 10 or 20 thousand? That's one hell of a split. It says just under 12,000 but that's since 2005. I'd say if you went thru that members list you'd find quite a few who have moved on in one form or another and quite a few who haven't posted anything for at least 3 years and the ones who are here for a day or two and that's it. That being said, if there are just under 12,000 members here the you would figure you would have some support. I don't see any. Could mean that a lot of the members that are here don't care about your thread so you're stuck with the 23 that are here. BTW, if we are gaslighting your threads, are you questioning your own memory, perception, or judgment?


Cool story brah.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

player99 said:


> Gaslighting. Don't try to project your naritive on me. I am only documenting your behavior. I can out play you on guitar, and that is important to me. Your gaslighting is a joke to me.


Seriously, it's great that you don't have self-esteem issues. It's good to be positive about ones abilities. 

But to come out and publicly brag about it - especially to other musicians - is a bit off-putting. And to favorably compare yourself to others you've never heard is, well, just beyond the pale. I'm sure you can see that if you really try.

But you are in good company. Here's another guy who does that, too.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Personally I think it more likely that he has self-esteem issues and constantly repeated comments like that are an attempt at over compensation. The lack of self-esteem is probably also directly related to his feeling like he’s being bullied all the time, or that he feels like he was cheated all the time. There’s definitely something going on there.

Sincerely, the saddest part of it all is if he matured a little and let all that shit go he would probably be a much happier person and in turn feel genuinely better about himself. When we spend all our time blaming others and avoiding taking personal responsibility for ourselves, we are simply unable to change and improve things and go around and around the same cycle.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)




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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

High/Deaf said:


> Funny. You hate the cops ............. until you need one. LOL
> 
> Closet copsucker, perhaps?


All was good until this comment, which honestly does look like bullying to me, then it all broke loose.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

It was inevitable.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

tomee2 said:


> I had an EMT intercepted last week. Payment between friends, his email was compromised and a simple password was used.
> I'm thinking the only way to avoid this is to always use a random non word password and don't email it from the same account you sent the money with. Call it in.


To the people with insight into the system, I assume having auto deposit for people you frequently do transactions with will prevent this type of scenario? This is what I do with my landlords.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

tomee2 said:


> All was good until this comment, which honestly does look like bullying to me, then it all broke loose.


the dude had an agenda and it's where he wanted to take it,. got far more interesting and brought a little liveliness to the place but shitty people do shitty things and bring the whole vibe down. probably relates to the general membership being low and what kind of individuals stick around after they join


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

vadsy said:


> the dude had an agenda and it's where he wanted to take it,. got far more interesting and brought a little liveliness to the place but shitty people do shitty things and bring the whole vibe down. probably relates to the general membership being low and what kind of individuals stick around after they join


And you're still here. 


tomee2 said:


> All was good until this comment, which honestly does look like bullying to me, then it all broke loose.


Going by the posts the OP has made along the way about his opinionf of the police and various other powers that be I'd say that's just a statement of fact.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> And you're still here.


not sure if this is just a half thought you're trying to communicate but yes, still here and the best part of this joint


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

torndownunit said:


> To the people with insight into the system, I assume having auto deposit for people you frequently do transactions with will prevent this type of scenario? This is what I do with my landlords.


I tried that for somethings but because pensions etc. don't come in on the same date every month there are bills I pay thru the bank as soon as the gov't deposits the money in the accts.. Same as when bills are due. Now, for things like my credit card and insurance I do a transfer. I would figure auto transfers should be fairly safe because that's what the gov'ts....federal, provincial etc......use to pay pensions, tax returns etc..


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

vadsy said:


> yes, still here and the best part of this joint


That's not saying much. Half a thought......nope but I guess I could have put a yet in there tho. BTW, which dude are you referring to or are you just being vague like this guy.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> which dude are you referring to or are you just being vague


that's the beauty, it works either way but you have to do the math and it makes perfect sense. who is that a picture of?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

vadsy said:


> that's the beauty, it works either way but you have to do the math and it makes perfect sense. who is that a picture of?


Some dud....I mean dude.....who figures he can run this province.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> Some dud....I mean dude.....who figures he can run this province.


just like every dude in our political forum.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

vadsy said:


> just like every dude in our political forum.


You have to be a registered member to go there so I wouldn't know.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> You have to be a registered member to go there so I wouldn't know.


all good., they'll let you in once you're a big boy


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

vadsy said:


> all good., they'll let you in once you're a big boy


No, I'll leave that to be your private litter box.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

vadsy said:


> just like every dude in our political forum.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> No, I'll leave that to be your private litter box.


best to do so, not everyone can handle it


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

torndownunit said:


>


I can change it to dud like Electro intended it to be


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Your all bastards. Whoops, sorry, must be the Sleemans Clear. (but I got your attention) I do remember a few years back when player99 was posting some stupid shit and he did come out and say he was going to stop doing that and he was going to turn over a new leaf. He did that and I was pretty proud of him and actually took him off my ignore list. I think he's just slipping a little so maybe we can give him a break.😷


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Guitar101 said:


> Your all bastards. Whoops, sorry, must be the Sleemans Clear. (but I got your attention) I do remember a few years back when player99 was posting some stupid shit and he did come out and say he was going to stop doing that and he was going to turn over a new leaf. He did that and I was pretty proud of him and actually took him off my ignore list. I think he's just slipping a little so maybe we can give him a break.😷


I could be wrong but I seem to remember about starting a complete new forum when things changed here not that long ago.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Guitar101 said:


> Your all bastards. Whoops, sorry, must be the Sleemans Clear. (but I got your attention) I do remember a few years back when player99 was posting some stupid shit and he did come out and say he was going to stop doing that and he was going to turn over a new leaf. He did that and I was pretty proud of him and actually took him off my ignore list. I think he's just slipping a little so maybe we can give him a break.😷


No slipping. I don't start anything. I am calling out the gaslighting, the snide remarks and the bullying as it happens. And it happens a lot. It is also apparent that the guys that can't play guitar very well are the ones starting things. The good guitar players don't do it, nor do they join in. Just because you're in a band doesn't mean you can play guitar. There are lots of shity bands with shity musicians. I call out the bullies, and don't give up. BTW I have received all but $20 back from the scammer. He also tried to get the best of me, but now is sorry. He is promising me $50 next week to make up for the hassle. So an extra $30 for the hassle. I am so not done with this guy. I want his name on the RCMP Anti Fraud list.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Oh my. That post totally reminds me of someone else here. It’s uncanny.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

JBFairthorne said:


> Oh my. That post totally reminds me of someone else here. It’s uncanny.


See what I mean? Those who can't play...


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

You need some new material.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

player99 said:


> See what I mean? Those who can't play...


I'm usually for your shit disturbing and against the tyranny and oppression you have to suffer but do come up with some new skits to entertain us


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Happy Thanksgiving to all you fuckers ... lol


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

vadsy said:


> I'm usually for your shit disturbing and against the tyranny and oppression you have to suffer but do come up with some new skits to entertain us


I'm not here to entertain... I was engauged in a discussion and once again the same tired hacks start shit. I am going to call it out to document their behavior. Did you catch that I got my money back from the scammer?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

JBFairthorne said:


> Oh my. That post totally reminds me of someone else here. It’s uncanny.


Yup. Seems like there was.....maybe....a medical exception there. For a while anyway. 


player99 said:


> See what I mean? Those who can't play...


Not about you turkey. A little paranoid perhaps? BTW I'm not sure if anyone here has ever heard you play so you must be worse than me. 


Wardo said:


> Happy Thanksgiving to all you fuckers ... lol


Where's your hat?


player99 said:


> I'm not here to entertain... I was engauged in a discussion and once again the same tired hacks start shit. I am going to call it out to document their behavior. Did you catch that I got my money back from the scammer?


Well to call it out you might as well get in touch with the powers that be and lodge a complaint. Maybe post the scammers info to as a warning to the guys in your area.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

player99 said:


> I'm not here to entertain... I was engauged in a discussion and once again the same tired hacks start shit. I am going to call it out to document their behavior. Did you catch that I got my money back from the scammer?


I did and I think it’s wonderful.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Wardo said:


> Happy Thanksgiving to all you fuckers ... lol


Right back atcha, have a good one.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

player99 said:


> No slipping. I don't start anything. I am calling out the gaslighting, the snide remarks and the bullying as it happens. And it happens a lot.


And I'm just calling out your hypocrisy. Deal with it, or grow some integrity. Your choice.



> It is also apparent that the guys that can't ....blah blah blah blah and a bunch more tire, unsubstantiated Trumpian bullshit ............


. 



> I call out the bullies, and don't give up. BTW I have received all but $20 back from the scammer. He also tried to get the best of me, but now is sorry. He is promising me $50 next week to make up for the hassle. So an extra $30 for the hassle. I am so not done with this guy. I want his name on the RCMP Anti Fraud list.


Wow! Bully much? Just more hypocrisy from the master herself.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Call the Canadian *Anti*-*Fraud* Call *Centre* at 1-888-495-8501. Mind you they will probably want to see the paper trail, same as your local police. You do know what a paper trail is don't you and have all that info handy? Including all unadulterated conversations between the two of you. Not too sure if they'll accept phone calls tho without proof.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

I got ripped off by my Ex frontline, backline and most likely on every line !!!  

Does that count ?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Frenchy99 said:


> I got ripped off by my Ex frontline, backline and most likely on every line !!!
> 
> Does that count ?


I was married to her sister so it must be a family trait. It would count if you could play guitar but since you're here you probably can't play guitar so it probably doesn't count.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

player99 said:


> No slipping. I don't start anything. I am calling out the gaslighting, the snide remarks and the bullying as it happens. And it happens a lot. It is also apparent that the guys that can't play guitar very well are the ones starting things. The good guitar players don't do it, nor do they join in. Just because you're in a band doesn't mean you can play guitar. There are lots of shity bands with shity musicians. I call out the bullies, and don't give up. BTW *I have received all but $20 back from the scammer. He also tried to get the best of me, but now is sorry. He is promising me $50 next week to make up for the hassle.* So an extra $30 for the hassle. I am so not done with this guy. I want his name on the RCMP Anti Fraud list.


Don’t spend that $50 yet...
scammer and promises are an ironic combination


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Got back the final amount tonight. Fucking guy is whining and acting like he is the victim. Cops are charging him, according to him. I have found so much info. He is 20 years old, and has ripped off a pile of people according to one guy. This guy sent him $1550 in 2018. He has been chasing him ever since. He is still owed $550. Others have posted warning ads that have expired but there is still some of the ad visible. He has used fake companies, identities etc.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

player99 said:


> Got back the final amount tonight. Fucking guy is whining and acting like he is the victim. Cops are charging him, according to him. I have found so much info. He is 20 years old, and has ripped off a pile of people according to one guy. This guy sent him $1550 in 2018. He has been chasing him ever since. He is still owed $550. Others have posted warning ads that have expired but there is still some of the ad visible. *He has used fake companies, identities etc.*


Pretty shrewd for a 20 year-old.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

allthumbs56 said:


> Pretty shrewd for a 20 year-old.


If only he'd used his shrewdness for good instead of evil.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

His name is Wyatt Santink.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> Pretty shrewd for a 20 year-old.


Especially when he was a minor when he started to pull the scams.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

He's also pretty stupid. His digital footprint is a mile long.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Why are you doxxing this guy so hard? What do you think GC'ers will do with all this?


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Budda said:


> Why are you doxxing this guy so hard? What do you think GC'ers will do with all this?


Poor Wyatt Santink. Boo hoo hoo. He's ripped off a lot of people. This is a warning. You can buy from him though.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

player99 said:


> Poor Wyatt Santink. Boo hoo hoo. He's ripped off a lot of people. This is a warning. You can buy from him though.


So you think spreading his personal information is the proper avenue?

The police dont even do that.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Potentially risky. I’m not sure I would post someone else’s driver’s license showing an address and other personal information. What if his identity was stolen as a result of your posting his info? I’m not defending a scumbag but it seems foolish to put yourself at risk out of revenge.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> Potentially risky. I’m not sure I would post someone else’s driver’s license showing an address and other personal information. What if his identity was stolen as a result of your posting his info? I’m not defending a scumbag but it seems foolish to put yourself at risk out of revenge.


It's gone! Duh! (that's not aimed at you)


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

player99 said:


> His name is Wyatt Santink.


How can't you trust a guy named Wyatt?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> He's also pretty stupid. His digital footprint is a mile long.


Seems like warnings have been posted about him for a few years so he must be doing something right. He's still out there and he doesn't seem to have gone to jail.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

player99 said:


> He's also pretty stupid. His digital footprint is a mile long.


Yet he scammed you, didn't he.

How about posting his address to the open field he lives in.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

sulphur said:


> Yet he scammed you, didn't he.
> 
> How about posting his address to the open field he lives in.


How's you guitar playing coming along?

I also got every penny back, and he is up for charges.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

player99 said:


> How's you guitar playing coming along?
> 
> I also got every penny back, and he is up for charges.


You'll assume what you want regardless, so my playing is a moot point.

Always the victim.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> How's you guitar playing coming along?
> 
> I also got every penny back, and he is up for charges.


What no address? Surely you have that.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> What no address? Surely you have that.


you missed a few posts.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

i don’t understand this thread at all but it’s funny as hell and if someone ever asked me what’s it’s like over it GC forum, this is the thread I’d suggest to start with.

That and political forum. GC - chill w your gramps and his friends...... oh it’s ok, really, they are from a different time.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

sulphur said:


> You'll assume what you want regardless, so my playing is a moot point.
> 
> Always the victim.


This forum needs a guitar wars competition thread . Call it the “put your fingers where your mouth is??!? Guitars wars faceoff” Then Player 99 can face off with all his abusers and settle this dust once and for all, winner takes all. We will crown a GC fast finger champions, losers have the Prime Minister as their avatar for a year!

Let’s get ready to ruuuuummmmbbble!


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

sulphur said:


> You'll assume what you want regardless, so my playing is a moot point.
> 
> Always the victim.


A victim of your terrible hack guitar playing and total lack of music theory.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

tomee2 said:


> I had an EMT intercepted last week. Payment between friends, his email was compromised and a simple password was used.
> I'm thinking the only way to avoid this is to always use a random non word password and don't email it from the same account you sent the money with. Call it in.


It doesn't have to be a non word. Just make the answer not match the question and text the person the password. What city is the Eiffel Tower in? Koala Bear.

I do this whenever a new account for a website requires a security question. I just make stuff up for the answers and store the answers in Last Pass. What did you want to be when you grew up? Lake Michigan.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

There was a post with multiple government ID plus a couple headshots, that got I think modded out. Address, DOB, I think DL #. A few posts above are in reply to what no longer exists, making for a trippy read.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

player99 said:


> A victim of your terrible hack guitar playing and total lack of music theory.


o m g, you are such an imbecile. But THAT has me out of breath from laughing so hard. One of us needs to take a break from the internet lol. I don’t play guitar, and wouldn’t care what you said anyways. I’ve been a self professed hack the entire time I’ve belonged here. Get a life.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> When I sold the '81 the guy answered the ad, emailed and the phoned for an address and about 7 hrs. or so later showed up with trailer behind his truck and then went to the bank and drew out the cash.
> I guess some people don't trust anyone and figure that everyone is out to get them.


I bought a $15 hamster cage off some lady yesterday for my kids and she met me in a mall strip mall parking lot and then waited until I had driven away so I couldn't follow her before she left. Paranoid!


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

keto said:


> There was a post with multiple government ID plus a couple headshots, that got I think modded out. Address, DOB, I think DL #. A few posts above are in reply to what no longer exists, making for a trippy read.


Yes. I was showing this little shit's face to let others be warned. I was also showing how in a short time I have his name, address, birth date, driver's license, passport, most online accounts, photos, two other aliases, a fake company and at 9:37 pm Tues Feb 24 2015 he scored a goal in Packenham Ontario.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

tdotrob said:


> This thread is very strange.


Yeah why do adults fight and attack each here so often? So weird. This place needs more moderation. I run a facebook group and would never allow things to get where they do here.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

keto said:


> There was a post with multiple government ID plus a couple headshots, that got I think modded out. Address, DOB, I think DL #. A few posts above are in reply to what no longer exists, making for a trippy read.


That was some pretty bond style doxxing. I wonder what player has on all his haters? 

I for one respect players playing abilities and wish him well (please don’t release my web browser history to the public forum Mr. Player)


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Guncho said:


> Yeah why do adults fight and attack each here so often? So weird. This place needs more moderation. I run a facebook group and would never allow things to get where they do here.


I think it’s just people in general. Not being scared of potentially getting punched in the lips has changed the the way people communicate.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

player99 said:


> A victim of your terrible hack guitar playing and total lack of music theory.


It's pretty sad you have to resort to insulting people's guitar playing.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

keto said:


> o m g, you are such an imbecile. But THAT has me out of breath from laughing so hard. One of us needs to take a break from the internet lol. I don’t play guitar, and wouldn’t care what you said anyways. I’ve been a self professed hack the entire time I’ve belonged here. Get a life.


Once again my theory is proved correct.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Guncho said:


> It's pretty sad you have to resort to insulting people's guitar playing.


It proves my theory.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

tdotrob said:


> I think it’s just people in general. Not being scared of potentially getting punched in the lips has changed the the way people communicate.


It doesn't have to be like this. If people can't play nice then you need a moderator to make them or show them the door.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

player99 said:


> It proves my theory.


It doesn't. It's just lame. It's like resorting to my dick is bigger than yours or my dad can beat up your dad.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

player99 said:


> A victim of your terrible hack guitar playing and total lack of music theory.


You ssem to be the only one around here that is bragging about their skill, prove it master guitar ninja.

I was simply pointing out the fact that you missed the red flags, no check of the address, paypal issues, but still sending cash to total kijiji stranger.
Now your playing the victim as usual from something that was a result of your impulsiveness.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Guncho said:


> It doesn't. It's just lame. It's like resorting to my dick is bigger than yours or my dad can beat up your dad.


What you are missing is some members here continually post something negative towards me. Be it a subtle jab, an insult, some gaslighting, whatever. What I have found is those that can't play guitar, harass. I am pointing that out. I have not attacked them, I am only rebutting the truth. They are on a guitar forum, hassling, insulting and gaslighting like little schoolyard bullies, and they can't play guitar!!! hahaha. They are laughable.


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## Sneaky (Feb 14, 2006)




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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Yes they need a tissue to wipe away the tears of musical disappointment and failure.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

player99 said:


> Tues Feb 24 2015 he scored a goal in Packenham Ontario.


You went one step too far; now he has an insanity defence and/or you’ve given the jury a reason to like him and therefore acquit him on all charges because he scored a goal in the ass end of Ontario... lol


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

vadsy said:


> you missed a few posts.


Nope. Never saw the OP post anything but his name. Mind you a phone number and e-mail address can be found on line. Plus an expired OKZ.CA ad. That and how he seems to be the only guitar player here.


player99 said:


> A victim of your terrible hack guitar playing and total lack of music theory.


I take it you've heard sulpher play?


keto said:


> There was a post with multiple government ID plus a couple headshots, that got I think modded out. Address, DOB, I think DL #. A few posts above are in reply to what no longer exists, making for a trippy read.


You are probably right. I'm just waiting for the playa to wow us with a video of his fantastic playing. Probably have to wait for a long, long time.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Nope. Never saw the OP post anything but his name. Mind you a phone number and e-mail address can be found on line. Plus an expired OKZ.CA ad. That and how he seems to be the only guitar player here.
> 
> I take it you've heard sulpher play?
> 
> You are probably right. I'm just waiting for the playa to wow us with a video of his fantastic playing. Probably have to wait for a long, long time.


If you missed the party don't show up late and make assumptions. I am working on an original album now with some great players and a powerhouse singer. I will post links when songs are ready for public release.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> If you missed the party don't show up late and make assumptions. I am working on an original album now with some great players and a powerhouse singer. I will post links when songs are ready for public release.


Can't help it if the powers that be pull your posts. They don't pull anyone elses the bullies. As far as posting something from your 'original album', I take that to mean you have no videos or anything yet, not even a teaser of you playing. Figures.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Can't help it if the powers that be pull your posts. They don't pull anyone elses the bullies. As far as posting something from your 'original album', I take that to mean you have no videos or anything yet, not even a teaser of you playing. Figures.


I'm really doing it though. You are trying to discredit me and you also are not very good. Again my theory is proven.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

tdotrob said:


> Call it the “put your fingers where your mouth is??!? Guitars wars faceoff”


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Does anyone else find it funny that player found all this useful information about this scammer AFTER he sent him money and got SCAMMED?

Oh, and yeah, I know, I can’t play guitar...but I’ve also never been scammed.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

He thinks insulting people's skill is a real insult. It's really weird.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Budda said:


> He thinks insulting people's skill is a real insult. It's really weird.


Ot just scratches the surface of weird with this guy. Personally, I don’t really care about anyone else’s ability. Nor do I care how I measure up to anyone else as long as we’re both good enough to play coherently together.

What’s really weird is all the nonsense he spouts and somehow he doesn’t think he comes off like an incredible boob.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I never realized that music was a competition.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

player99 said:


> What you are missing is some members here continually post something negative towards me. Be it a subtle jab, an insult, some gaslighting, whatever. What I have found is those that can't play guitar, harass. I am pointing that out. I have not attacked them, I am only rebutting the truth. They are on a guitar forum, hassling, insulting and gaslighting like little schoolyard bullies, and they can't play guitar!!! hahaha. They are laughable.


You had me until you stooped to insulting people's guitar playing. It's incredibly childish. Rise above.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Me neither. We need to get to the bottom of this.



tdotrob said:


> This forum needs a guitar wars competition thread . Call it the “put your fingers where your mouth is??!? Guitars wars faceoff” Then Player 99 can face off with all his abusers and settle this dust once and for all, winner takes all. We will crown a GC fast finger champions, losers have the Prime Minister as their avatar for a year!
> 
> Let’s get ready to ruuuuummmmbbble!


Please clearly state the criteria for the competition:


is it only how many notes / second you can play? That's so '18 years old', guitar playing is alot more than how many meaningless 128th notes you can play. Sometimes, the rests between the notes are important, too.
how do you 'judge' taste or style or ability to play with others and make things sound better? Are they meaningless to a guitar wars competition? And if there is judging, will the Russians cheat?

Once the criteria is clearly stated (and isn't one that would proves Yngwie is the best guitar player ever LOL LOL LOL), let us know, K?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> I'm really doing it though. You are trying to discredit me and you also are not very good. Again my theory is proven.


What, that I can't play guitar? I can't and I've stated that fact so what's the big deal. I see now that you've changed your tune and it's now a theory instead of the stated fact that it was. Loosing confidence in yourself? As far as discrediting you goes, you seem to be doing that quite well yourself.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

High/Deaf said:


> Me neither. We need to get to the bottom of this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Grab a guitar by the neck and beat your opponent around the head and shoulders. A modification of this.








extra points if you set it on fire like Hendrix.


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

tdotrob said:


> i don’t understand this thread at all but it’s funny as hell and if someone ever asked me what’s it’s like over it GC forum, this is the thread I’d suggest to start with.
> 
> That and political forum. GC - chill w your gramps and his friends...... oh it’s ok, really, they are from a different time.


Go find a place that enhances your sophisticated world view. There must be so many, I don`t understand why your still here.

Oh...I remember you. You`re the guy who was going to get back to me on the positive agenda and target goals of ANTIFA...How`s that coming along?


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Jim Wellington said:


> Go find a place that enhances your sophisticated world view. There must be so many, I don`t understand why your still here.
> 
> Oh...I remember you. You`re the guy who was going to get back to me on the positive agenda and target goals of ANTIFA...How`s that coming along?


It great thanks for asking. Im sure you can read and it doesn't matter to you what I say. Have a great weekend being almighty on internet forums haha.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Grab a guitar by the neck and beat your opponent around the head and shoulders


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


>


Yeah but the guy was still able to run away and he didn't have a guitar. Kieth should have just kept on hitting then he would have gotten Satisfaction.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Electraglide said:


> Kieth should have just kept on hitting


But, his lead was coming up.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Jim Wellington said:


> You`re the guy who was going to get back to me on the positive agenda and target goals of ANTIFA...How`s that coming along?


Gotta say "antifascist" not "antifa" - say the whole word, not the short form.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> Gotta say "antifascist" not "antifa" - say the whole word, not the short form.


Antifa's better watch out for the Proud Boys. Not too sure about the Boogaloos.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> Antifa's better watch out for the Proud Boys. Not too sure about the Boogaloos.


these guys? agreed, careful


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

vadsy said:


> these guys? agreed, careful


Part of your collection?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> Part of your collection?


not only that but also a good way to keep track of where I've been


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

In a bizarre 'fight club' twist, @player99 and Wyatt Santink are actually the same guy.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

jb welder said:


> In a bizarre 'fight club' twist, @player99 and Wyatt Santink are actually the same guy.


I was never that stupid. I wish I was 20 again though...


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

player99 said:


> I was never that stupid. I wish I was 20 again though...


Me too. In my mind I'm like 20, but to other people probably more like this:


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

jb welder said:


> Me too. In my mind I'm like 20, but to other people probably more like this:


I'm now inspired to sing. Wow that was beyond bad - thanks.

PS - best YouTube comment "I feel like I just watched Liberace pass a kidney stone "


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