# Lightweight Les Paul, not made in China?



## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I recently sold my beautiful LP Studio for a little over $1K, owned it for 12 years. I loved that guitar, but despite me being able to squat 450lbs w/o much trouble, apparently I'm a wimp when it comes to guitar weights. It was 10lbs and not played much because of that.

None of my guitars weigh over 7.5lbs, most are 6.5lbs. I've tried models like the Yamaha SL-380, Agile, Greco, older PRS, those Bunny models, ESP, LTD and the Japanese Epiphones - they all rival my Studio in quality and tone, which is what I'm looking for - but they're all over 8lbs (I know because I've weighed them). There are lighter LPs out there, most of them are junk. This trial & error thing is killing me - it'll be years before I get lucky on finding a lightweight quality model and I'm tired of leaving this to chance after searching for 4 years.

I've checked out Warmoth and that may be the way I'm going. I can get a lightweight chambered LP body for about $700 and I have an awesome neck I can use. But I thought I'd pick your brains first.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Parameters (I'm pretty firm on these)

$1,000 budget, used OK
Les Paul copy (as close as possible, lawsuit OK)
Arch-top (no Juniors)
Bolt-on neck not preferred, but OK
Not made in China
Under 8lbs
Thanks for any help.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

My prs s2 singlecut satin (i call it the s2) is probably right around 7lbs and my favourite guitar to play. I'd hunt down one of those. I like the stock pickups but ymmv.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Epiphone ES LP Pro








PRS SE Zach Myers


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Hmmm, the S2s are out of budget, the Pro Epiphone's are heavy. And I can't find any info on where the Zach Myers are made. From what I can see, all SE models from PRS are Chinese made.

Appreciate the feedback.


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## Jaime (Mar 29, 2020)

I think most chambered LP standards are probably around 7.5ish lbs. They started in 2007 or thereabouts? Are the studios of that era chambered as well?


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

laristotle said:


> Epiphone ES LP Pro
> View attachment 365539
> 
> PRS SE Zach Myers
> View attachment 365544


UGH ! Not made in US of A !


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

FatStrat2 said:


> Pro Epiphone's are heavy


@laristotle The ES LP are around 6.5 pounds...correct?
OOOPS..MIC...Sorry!


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Jaime said:


> I think most chambered LP standards are probably around 7.5ish lbs. They started in 2007 or thereabouts? Are the studios of that era chambered as well?


I agree with all of that, but they are out of budget.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

BGood said:


> UGH ! Not made in US of A !


Doesn't have to be USA. I find Canadian, Korean, Indonesian and Mexican guitars of decent playable quality (not in all cases though). Just not Chinese, their quality is too inconsistent and I don't want to support the CCP.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Used S2 satin will be about $1100.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Most I've seen are $1,400+. Where's it made?


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

The Gibson "The Paul II" that I picked up recently is nice and light- the body is thinner like an SG with a carved top and is all mahogany. Gibson have also done some other similar LP variations that would fit the bill.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Thanks for the suggestion.

I've considered the Paul II, great guitar - no complaints about it. But it's over-budget. Can't find one for less than $1,300 that isn't beat up or compromised in some way.

I'd like to get one in my hands that's not over $1K including taxes & shipping.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

PRS S2s are made in the US, the SEs are MIK.


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

Gibson has been making chambered Les Paul Studios since 2007 and they were regularly found below $1,000 (pre-covid).


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

greco said:


> @laristotle The ES LP are around 6.5 pounds...correct?
> OOOPS..MIC...Sorry!


6.8 lbs. according to google. The one that I had felt very light.
I didn't notice the MIC. Mine was made in Indonesia. Depends on the year, I guess.
PRS SE's are MIK.


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## DavidP (Mar 7, 2006)

If you're ok other brands, as well as P90s, consider a Godin Summit Classic CT P90. My goldtop version weighs 7.8 lbs. Here's Robert showing off: 



No longer made, good deals can be found on used ones. They also made humbucker and P-Rail versions.


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## DeeTee (Apr 16, 2018)

PRS SE are made in Indonesia, their quality control is excellent.
+1 for Godin too. My icon is weight relieved and I got it for much less than $1,000 used.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Yes, I considered the Godin and PRS, can't find them for under $1,000. I don't mind going a bit over budget, but not 30% - 70%. This isn't pre-COVID. Ideally, I'd like to get an even trade for that beautiful Studio I gave up.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Les Paul Special? Various years have different specs, like p90 vs HB, but they're all most likely lighter than a Studio. I've seen $800 to $2k asking though, not sure why the big range as I would think they should be $1000ish used with a few bumps and a bit more in near new condition.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I don't think the Special is an archtop, I've never seen one anyway. And if they're out there, they are as rare as dragons.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Korean Les Paul Ultra, one with SG weight and a nice contoured back.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

^ That looks pretty good, I'll look into that idea. I see some Indonesian versions too, nice.

Thanks a bunch!


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Lightweight Les Paul? The ES Les Paul is the lightest LP I've ever encountered. Weight goes from the high 5lbs to low 6lbs. Mine in is 6.2 lbs. It took awhile for me getting used to picking it up and realizing how light it is.

Ooops I saw your post regarding how much it should cost. This guitar satisfies all your wants except for the price.


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## dbouchard (Nov 29, 2015)

For what it's worth the prs se line is made in Indonesia 

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Spend $1100 get the thing you want.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Gibson Blueshawk - under 7 lbs, P-90s.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

^ I'd like that, but the Blueshawk is exceedingly rare and about 80% past my budget, no way. Post COVID or not, I should be able to get something for $1K. LPs are everywhere for a grand, but they weigh like plutonium or they're MIC.

So far, the LP Ultra is looking good, I'm still researching that one.

Thanks for your suggestions.


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## blueshores_guy (Apr 8, 2007)

I had a PRS SE Zach Myers for a while. Sold it to reduce inventory. Made in Korea. Not on par with a US made PRS, but still a pretty good medium-quality guitar. Really good finish, fretwork and workmanship on it, very, very light. The thing to watch, if it's an issue for you, is that this particular PRS model is 24" scale. Great for us old farts with arthritic hands, but not to everyone's taste. You can likely find one on the used market for about $700 to 750CAD.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

That's a beauty, and I'm good w/ P90s or a shorter scale - no probs. Except that one above looks out of my budget. I can't see something like that going for under $1K. A quick check on eBay, Reverb and thereabouts shows about $1,200 before shipping & taxes - most are hovering around $1,400.

Still, something to keep my eye on when used prices drop within the next year or so. Appreciate it.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

FatStrat2 said:


> I don't think the Special is an archtop, I've never seen one anyway. And if they're out there, they are as rare as dragons.


Yup, flat top. Missed that you wanted that, can't blame you either.

There are these out there too..









Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds


Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




www.kijiji.ca





Arch top carve like a Studio but solid mahogany.
I lost track of the years they made them, but it wasn't a limited run or anything. For a few years at least. They used to go for $800ish used...but that was a year or two back.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

FatStrat2 said:


> ^ I'd like that, but the Blueshawk is exceedingly rare and about 80% past my budget, no way. Post COVID or not, I should be able to get something for $1K. LPs are everywhere for a grand, but they weigh like plutonium or they're MIC.
> 
> So far, the LP Ultra is looking good, I'm still researching that one.
> 
> Thanks for your suggestions.


I just bought a Blueshawk, but I looked for a while - it was only a bit over your budget.

I've owned a couple of Les Paul Ultras. Light, flexible, and made in China I believe - but still a good option.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

BlueRocker said:


> ...I've owned a couple of Les Paul Ultras. Light, flexible, and made in China I believe - but still a good option.


Indonesia.

From the limited research I've done, that's where they're built. I've played for decades and never owned a Chinese guitar, not going to start now.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

FatStrat2 said:


> That's a beauty, and I'm good w/ P90s or a shorter scale - no probs. Except that one above looks out of my budget. I can't see something like that going for under $1K. A quick check on eBay, Reverb and thereabouts shows about $1,200 before shipping & taxes - most are hovering around $1,400.
> 
> Still, something to keep my eye on when used prices drop within the next year or so. Appreciate it.


Then dont buy off ebay or reverb. Those also add 3% or more to cover the fees. You can get a used ZM for $800.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Budda said:


> ...You can get a used ZM for $800.


At the risk of sounding naive, where?

The ZM guitars are rare enough used, they sure ain't around here locally. I don't mind hunting for a guitar with a little bit of waiting, but I've already 'waited' for 4 years. I want to buy soon.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

This what these other guitars are competing against (guitars that are posted at under a grand but in reality they aren't). I've already got SD pickups and Gotoh bridges laying about the place I can use. I'll use my chrome wraparound bridge instead of this gold one. And the neck is ready to go. Warmoth can skip the rear rout entirely, I plan to wire the pickup directly to the output jack. Who needs switches, volumes or tones? Not me.

USA made, around $700. Chambered maple w/ flamed maple top, should be under 8lbs for sure, even less if I let them rout the rear - delivered in 6 weeks.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

FatStrat2 said:


> At the risk of sounding naive, where?
> 
> The ZM guitars are rare enough used, they sure ain't around here locally. I don't mind hunting for a guitar with a little bit of waiting, but I've already 'waited' for 4 years. I want to buy soon.


Kijiji. They come up reasonably regularly. Also check the gear hunter tab on the long and mcquade site.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Thanks, appreciate it. I'll keep watch.


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

08 Weight relieved Studio 7.6 lbs.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

^ That's not $1K, no good.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

tomee2 said:


> Yup, flat top. Missed that you wanted that, can't blame you either.
> 
> There are these out there too..
> 
> ...


Appreciate the link, tomee2. I"m going to contact that seller. His location is out of my way, but it's worth a shot.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

This could easily be my one and only guitar. 6.5 Lbs
















Kijiji Canada​


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Definitely a possibility, that guitar presses all the right buttons. Appreciate the suggestion.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

You should be able to swing something from Reverend, here are some sold listings to check the numbers...









Reverend Guitars | Reverb


Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.




reverb.com


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

None of those Reverend sold ads have datestamps on them, at least that I could see. I estimate they probably go back at least a year, probably longer than that. Regardless, I checked them all and only found 1 that matches my criteria. That's not encouraging.

All the others were either not Les Paul shaped, were not arch-tops or were over-budget. If the guitar is $1,100, I'd be willing to stretch for that, but adding shipping puts it 30% over-budget.


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

FatStrat2 said:


> ^ That's not $1K, no good.



$600 - $800 used.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

BEACHBUM said:


> $600 - $800 used.


Where? Can you point me to one?


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

While I appreciate the guitar brand/model suggestions, it's easy to see that posters are still pricing like it's pre-COVID.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Godin LG Signature - 25.5 scale, light, great players. This one is probably overpriced. I had one that I sold rather than having it refretted, but I should have kept it. Was a hard guitar to put down.

Gorgeous Godin LG Signature | Guitars | Dartmouth | Kijiji


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

BlueRocker said:


> Godin LG Signature - 25.5 scale, light, great players. This one is probably overpriced. I had one that I sold rather than having it refretted, but I should have kept it. Was a hard guitar to put down.
> 
> Gorgeous Godin LG Signature | Guitars | Dartmouth | Kijiji


Godin does build really nice guitars. Though I can't deal with the recessed bridge. It puts everything sooo close to the top of the guitar, I always felt my picking hand cramping. Same reason I don't like Fenders. Give me some height on that bridge.

I also like my P90 real low. On the LG P90, they couldn't go there, no space, and those Duncan are hot hot hot.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Agreed, Godin's lineup is always solid. I know someone close who owns a Godin and they slap themselves upside the head for not buying one sooner. But the LG is just a little too far from a Les Paul shape for me.

Going to check out Godin's website right now. I'll have a look at what Schecter has to offer as well.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Just for fun, I decided to weigh myself with and without two of my guitars that sound like they're close to what you're looking for. May be not the best way to measure, but should be in the ballpark. Here are the results:

1. 2017 Gibson Les Paul Studio Tribute Honeyburst - 7.4 lbs
2. 2008 Gibson Les Paul Studio Vintage Mahogany - 6.8 lbs

I paid less than $1000 for each of these used, but did have to wait a bit to find a good price (both were purchased in the past year). In truth, if I could only have one guitar, either one would do the trick - they both sound great.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

FatStrat2 said:


> While I appreciate the guitar brand/model suggestions, it's easy to see that posters are still pricing like it's pre-COVID.


People asking $10 off new prices for guitars arent selling them fast. Prices things sell at hasnt really changed.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

^ Not in my book. Prices have gone up 15% to 30% for the used equipment I've been looking at across the board - especially amps. New prices have gone up too, but not as much. It seems a grand ain't enough lately for a lightweight Les Paul copy. That Warmoth guitar body is looking more likely.

True story: I actually took my LP Studio to a few places around town known for selling used guitars, found another Studio they had in stock that was lighter and offered to make a swap with mine and some [reasonable] cash. All refused (3 places and one pawn shop) and that includes me giving up my hardshell case too, at least $150 in value. They essentially wanted about $600 more. So I ended up privately selling my LP instead.

But a bit more patience on my part and I might get lucky. I still think the used guitar market is going to open up soon w/ more selection and better pricing as people ditch the 'lockdowns' and get outside. So a smorgasbord might be coming.


BlueRocker said:


> Just for fun, I decided to weigh myself with and without two of my guitars that sound like they're close to what you're looking for. May be not the best way to measure, but should be in the ballpark...


Yeah, that's the way I measure guitar weight too, seems to be consistent.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

BGood said:


> This could easily be my one and only guitar. 6.5 Lbs
> View attachment 365598
> 
> View attachment 365599
> ...


I know that PRS for $400 in Edmonton would be a guitar I would like to build into a great guitar!


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

MarkM said:


> I know that PRS for $400 in Edmonton would be a guitar I would like to build into a great guitar!


It doesn't need anything. Pickups are stellar, Controls are good, tuners are great. Nut might look funky, but it's very functional.


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## BEACHBUM (Sep 21, 2010)

FatStrat2 said:


> Where? Can you point me to one?


Ooops. My bad. They seem to have jumped up a few hundred recently but there are still plenty of them out there for $900 to $1000. You might want to take a look at the Ibanez options. Much better fit and finish than my Studio, tritone switching and the Super 58 pickups are excellent.$600.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

High end MIJ Tokai's use hand selected woods and are usually lighter than a normal Gibson les Paul.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

BEACHBUM said:


> Ooops. My bad. They seem to have jumped up a few hundred recently but there are still plenty of them out there for $900 to $1000. You might want to take a look at the Ibanez options...


Thanks BEACHBUM. I own an Ibanez and I never thought to look at that, duh! That's what this thread is for.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I'm looking at this Samick Ultramatic too. Made in Indonesia, SD pickups, thin lightweight alder body, archtop maple top. I've actually never played one and may try it out.

Anyone try one of these? Not quite a Les Paul, but has that LP flavour. He only wants $400.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Couldn't reach the guy above but I contacted the owners of these 2 guitars. I was shocked to find out they're both Chinese, I didn't know Ibanez made Chinese models so far back (2000 - 2012). What a waste...


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

If you can find a Greco EG-450 or EG-500, those are actually hollow and a very reasonable weight. They are very well made and should be within your budget.

I had one of the Korean Epiphone Ultra guitars. While it was on the lighter side, the maple neck made it suffer from a lot of neck dive.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Appreciate your post, troy. Will keep an eye out.

And while I'm not a fan of neck dive, I think that's more manageable than the neck trying to hit me in the face or the whole guitar sliding off me when sitting.


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## scot perlstein (Apr 13, 2021)

You might want to check out the PRS Silver Sky John Mayer model which is a favorite of my 11 guitars. Very lightweight with superb tone. It's fun to play and sounds like a cross between a Paul and a Strat. Although you will probably be hard pressed to find one for $1000. But doesn't hurt to search. 
Good luck


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Also worth noting, if you're buying used then your money is going to the seller, not anyone overseas. 

That said, find a light PRS SE245.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Budda said:


> Also worth noting, if you're buying used then your money is going to the seller, not anyone overseas.
> 
> That said, find a light PRS SE245.


While true, that bastard is going to use my money (now his) to buy yet another Chinese guitar. But really, I've spent the last 20+ years excising myself of Chinese products, don't wish to start owning again now.

And yeah, I've been looking for the 245, seems like a good balance of what I want - just have to wait/hope it's not over a grand.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

FatStrat2 said:


> I'm looking at this Samick Ultramatic too. Made in Indonesia, SD pickups, thin lightweight alder body, archtop maple top. I've actually never played one and may try it out.
> 
> Anyone try one of these? Not quite a Les Paul, but has that LP flavour. He only wants $400.
> 
> View attachment 365916


All these LP suggestions and your looking a a strat like guitar' sssshesse?


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Well, don't get me wrong, I love the suggestions, (some I've never thought of or just plain slipped my mind) and I'm very appreciative of these posts and the interest this brings to players who may have the same idea as me.

That Samick was out of desperation. Thing is, most of these suggestions are from good well-meaning folk who apparently still exist in the past with woefully mispriced quotes that are off several hundred dollars in the real world. Someone flippantly posts $850, I look around and $1,400 is the minimum, that sort of thing - over & over again. So it's whatever I can find.

I've already waited 4 years, I want to buy within a few months before I blow that Studio LP money on something mundane like groceries or my car - so I have a deadline.

And another thing. That LP Studio was easily as good or in some cases, _far better_ than any LP Standard I've ever played (and I've played lots). It would be an insult to buy something for the same price that doesn't measure up. A grand is all I want to spend. I think it's possible but the patience factor rubs me the wrong way. If the LP went on a diet from the get-go, I wouldn't be on the hunt at all. Stupid, overweight awesome guitar...


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

troyhead said:


> I had one of the Korean Epiphone Ultra guitars. While it was on the lighter side, the maple neck made it suffer from a lot of neck dive.


HUN ?
I have an Ultra 1, first year (2007). Cost me 300 CAD four years ago. A rare one without a burst, made for the Australian market I was told.

The guitar might not be 100% balanced, but it is far from neck diving. A neck diving guitar to me would have it's neck dangerously plunging towards the ground the second you let go of it. The Ultra tends to want to seem to resemble a movement downwards from an already upward position. Hardly noticeable.

Look at it, does it dive ? Nahhh ...


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Yeah, that's what I figured, minimal if any neck dive. I've got my eye out for one of those, they're rare though and they ain't $300.

I'm looking at this Agile AL-2000. i know these are very well made, solid guitars. Trying to get the weight from the owner.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Well, the guy above never responded. I asked him to weigh his guitar but not to bother getting back to me if the result is over 8lbs. I thought its stubby horn made it look impotent anyway.

Trying this MIK ESP EC-400 next.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

BGood said:


> I have an Ultra 1, first year (2007). Cost me 300 CAD four years ago. A rare one without a burst, made for the Australian market I was told.
> 
> The guitar might not be 100% balanced, but it is far from neck diving. A neck diving guitar to me would have it's neck dangerously plunging towards the ground the second you let go of it. The Ultra tends to want to seem to resemble a movement downwards from an already upward position. Hardly noticeable.


The neck on Ultra 1 that I had would dangerously plunge towards the ground the second I let go. The guitar wouldn’t sit level hanging from my shoulder and the headstock would hang lower than the body. I got rid of it because I felt like it was holding up the weight of the neck the whole time.

Mine had the very strange belly carve that was deep but not wide, like in the picture below. I don’t think that was on later Ultra II and III models (were there multiple versions of the Ultra 1 that had a different belly carve maybe?) Perhaps mine was an outlier, but it certainly had neck dive issues.

I have played other lightweight LP models that don’t dive, so there was something weird about that Ultra I had.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

FatStrat2 said:


> I'm looking at this Agile AL-2000. i know these are very well made, solid guitars. Trying to get the weight from the owner.
> 
> View attachment 366231


I remember reading that those are great guitars but with the boat anchor type of weight.


troyhead said:


> Mine had the very strange belly carve that was deep but not wide, like in the picture below.


Maybe they let go of that deep carve because of the weight loss that caused the neck diving problem ? Mine is like this.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

That's not only useful for the belly, but it's a big chunk of wood removed that definitely reduces its gravity footprint. And it looks cool too!


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

That ESP was full of stickers that compromised the finish.

Trying to get the weights of these 2 contenders, both Indonesian, both < $1K. Marty Freidman is actually one of my faves.

PRS-SE MF









Jackson MF-1


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## Jimmy_D (Jul 4, 2009)

4 pages and nothing, tough crowd.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

You mean me? Hey, I'm trying my ass off here, I have a deadline in fact. And when I'm dealing with trading a superb LP Studio for another single cut arch-top, I'm not going to compromise.


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## Jaime (Mar 29, 2020)

FatStrat2 said:


> You mean me? Hey, I'm trying my ass off here, I have a deadline in fact. And when I'm dealing with trading a superb LP Studio for another single cut arch-top, I'm not going to compromise.


I suspect you probably should've held onto the Studio. Outside of finding another Studio under $1k, I don't think you will do better than a PRS SE. I briefly had an SE 245 that I took in trade and it was a great guitar for the price bracket.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Agreed about the SE, I think it's quality stuff too. The Jackson may be a compromise, not sure yet.

As for my LP Studio, that was definitely a loss - but I don't regret it after owning it for 12 years. It was a struggle pulling it off the wall and I rarely played it for more than 20 minutes at a time because of its hefty girth (10lbs, that's insane). When I put it back on the wall after experiencing its classic tone, I felt like I went through a melee and was betrayed.

The buyer had googly eyes when he bought it, so I'm happy he's going to play the crap out of it.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Jackson MF-1 is off the list, close to 9lbs.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

FatStrat2 said:


> You mean me? Hey, I'm trying my ass off here, I have a deadline in fact. And when I'm dealing with trading a superb LP Studio for another single cut arch-top, I'm not going to compromise.


I don't think your Goldilocks guitar exists.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

It did a year ago, COVID prices have pushed it up over a grand. I'd probably have to spend $1,400 to get what I want, and I'm not going to. That's why I started this thread.


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## Jaime (Mar 29, 2020)

FatStrat2 said:


> It did a year ago, COVID prices have pushed it up over a grand. I'd probably have to spend $1,400 to get what I want, and I'm not going to. That's why I started this thread.


Save up or sell another piece of gear to offset the additional cost. It's going to be a never ending cycle of comprising, trust me.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Jaime said:


> Save up or sell another piece of gear to offset the additional cost. It's going to be a never ending cycle of comprising, trust me.


Correct. Cost is only going to continue to go up. Save up and buy what you want, or settle.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Yes, I've thought of that - I may have to do that. Or give up the LP side of guitars entirely and stick w/ my Strats.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

This may be a compromise?

Fender Special Edition Custom Telecaster FMT HH | Guitars | Truro | Kijiji










Made in Indonesia 2018


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I can confirm that those FMT's sound like LP's lol.









Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds


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Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds


Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




www.kijiji.ca













Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds


Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




www.kijiji.ca


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Heh heh, thanks, Guys. I think it's a good idea, actually - I did have it in the back of my mind. Teles and LPs are long distance cousins.

All I need is a 24 3/4" scale length neck to bolt on which will reel it in to the LP family. Blasphemy!


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Kijiji - Buy, Sell & Save with Canada's #1 Local Classifieds


Visit Kijiji Classifieds to buy, sell, or trade almost anything! New and used items, cars, real estate, jobs, services, vacation rentals and more virtually anywhere.




www.kijiji.ca


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

For a heads up those Tele FMTs are a set neck or neck through, not a bolt on.
I had two of them, one from Indonesia and an earlier one MIK, both were nice guitars.
They come with a set of Seynour Duncans, a Pearly Gates and a 59 in the neck, good picklups ready to rock.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Thanks for the info, sulphur. It would make a nice match for my '78 neck through Strat (Fresher Straighter).


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

sulphur said:


> For a heads up those Tele FMTs are a set neck or neck through, not a bolt on.
> I had two of them, one from Indonesia and an earlier one MIK, both were nice guitars.
> They come with a set of Seynour Duncans, a Pearly Gates and a 59 in the neck, good picklups ready to rock.


I had a black one. Beautiful guitar but the Gibsons started complaining and I had to get rid of it.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Budda said:


> I can confirm that those FMT's sound like LP's lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


These two have the same specs as my Soapbar-1 except for the pickups. They are incredible players and I'm sure they can made to sound like a LP.

Their scale is 25", ¼" longer than a Gibson. I can tell you I can't feel the difference when I switch from one to the other. I hate 25.5" scale lenghts, but mainly narrow radius and narrow necks.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Mine is 7.4 lbs

2019 Gibson Les Paul Tribute | Guitars | St. John's | Kijiji


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Well it's starting to sink in - as some have suggested here - that this isn't going to be a fast thing and I'll probably have to increase my base price too. Probably won't on price though, only out of respect for my LP Studio. I'm determined to get an even swap. It will be a long term project now: if I get one that's great, if not my LP days may be over. It's possible the longer I'm without an LP, the less I'll miss it.

BTW, I asked a few sellers the weight of their Japanese made chambered Goodfellow YLM-600 LPs and even chambered they came in at over 8.7lbs - crazy. It's really about the LP's body design, difficult to make it light and most manufacturers don't even bother thinking about weight when they put it together. They're thinking tone.

Thank you everyone for chiming in, I'm going to use this thread as a reference. I'll keep it updated with a purchase if it happens.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

2008 Gibson Les Paul Studio Vintage Mahogany - 6.8 lbs $1050 shipped.

FS/FT: - Great Gibson Purge of 2021 (Some Epiphone...


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

^ Thanks, but every guitar I've listed or played in this thread is local - including every guitar I've ever owned. I'm not into 'buy before try', that's a crapshoot.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

My chambered R8 is seven pounds, eleven ounces.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Appreciate that weight figure, sulphur.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

FatStrat2 said:


> ^ Thanks, but every guitar I've listed or played in this thread is local - including every guitar I've ever owned. I'm not into 'buy before try', that's a crapshoot.


If you know the specs, you should know if you like it or not.

Didnt you want an LP? Buy that LP. It's going to be an LP studio, no guesswork.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Well, specs doesn't always equal feel.

While it's tempting, I've played some beautiful 'looking' LPs that just didn't quite jibe with me for whatever reason. This could be one of them, I won't know unless I play it. And there's no return policy here.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

FatStrat2 said:


> Well, specs doesn't always equal feel.
> 
> While it's tempting, I've played some beautiful 'looking' LPs that just didn't quite jibe with me for whatever reason. This could be one of them, I won't know unless I play it. And there's no return policy here.


It's not modded, it's going to feel like other LP studios. It's under 7lbs. Someone else will scoop it if you dont.

Sell for what you paid if you dont like it.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Budda said:


> If you know the specs, you should know if you like it or not.
> 
> Didnt you want an LP? Buy that LP. It's going to be an LP studio, no guesswork.


Most of my gear has come sight unseen from this forum. No active member is here to screw anyone over either.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

I know I tend to over-disclose when I'm selling. Plus I make sure everything is right before it gets posted. I've experienced the same buying from other members here.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

It really has nothing to do with screwing someone over or if specs are correct. I may be new on this board, but not to forums. I can sense a good community here - love you guys!

Buying online is fine for guitar bodies and gear, but not whole guitars or necks - that's too personal, It only makes sense to try it first. I shouldn't be defending something like that, it's common sense (maybe fodder for a new thread). The last place I want to be is selling another rejected LP Studio. I got very lucky selling mine - LP Studios are a tough sell right now.

I realize I may be missing out on some nice guitars, but being disappointed and having to unload is far worse. This is a big city, I'll take my chances locally.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Then dont complain that you cant find anything lol.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

With respect to guitars specifically, I think the new 'norm' for buying before trying with no option to return the product is for chumps.

Not really looking for sale items anyway, I'm looking for ideas on lightweight LPs not made in China.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Another beauty, a Prestige DC Coupe, local and fits all the parameters - except weight, of course. Owner says it's as heavy as his LPs, probably heavier.


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## MarkM (May 23, 2019)

sulphur said:


> Most of my gear has come sight unseen from this forum. No active member is here to screw anyone over either.


His prices are fair and shipped, no risk here?

I was watching for his Godin's P-90 to hit the block, that makes my naughty bits tingle!


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

The risk is liking the newest member of the family.


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## hatspin (Aug 19, 2019)

There's a lot of unnecessary wood in a Les Paul body with the full thickness and maple top (maple is heavier than mahogany). Even weight relieved, it's going to take a freakishly light piece of mahogany to get under 7.5 with that body style. And then you'll be rewarded with neck dive because the strap button location and light body will have no way to counter the weight of the neck and tuners.

If neck dive doesn't bug you, search for a lighter example of a PRS S2 or SE, or maybe an LTD EC1000 could be had for your budget (but the weights are all over the place). 

Is it your back or your shoulder that bothers you? If it's your back, neck dive might not be an issue (but still might, because the load is asymmetric). If it's your shoulder, balance should be considered along with weight, at which point a double cut with the strap button further out makes sense.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

^ Completely agree, and well worded too. Appreciate your input. A bit of a long winded post coming...

I grew up playing a Japanese Univox Les Paul "lawsuit" guitar. High quality, lightweight - really a precision instrument that was laughed at by 'real' Les Paul owners (until they played it and appreciated that it's well put together). But I think you're right, the Les Paul concept isn't conducive to lightweight design.

Back is good, it's my shoulders that used to get fatigued. And when I sit, I hated the way it slid off my leg trying to fall away as the neck came up. It felt like I was fighting it while playing. Using a shoulder strap while sitting semi-solved it, but I felt strapped in - and there was still shoulder tug. Eventually I found a semi-solution by playing in shorts, the guitar wouldn't slide on skin. That actually gave me a good habit of wiping down all of my guitars after playing them - which I still do. But I'd eventually get a red welt on my hip/upper leg - that thing was heavy! I think it was made of neutron star material, not mahogany/maple.

I'm looking at those 2 exact guitars mentioned in your post. I might end up getting one if the planets align.

BTW for those that care, I had enough luck to play a Les Paul Ultra a few days ago (this city has a great variety of guitars). While it's a beautiful looking guitar and fits into all my parameters, I was surprised & a little disappointed by its lack of quality. It felt sort of cheap. I'm not giving up on them though, maybe it was the sample I played and it's probably unfair comparing it to my beloved LP Studio. For all intents & purposes, my Studio was a well crafted Les Paul Standard - just with no binding. That's why it sold within a nanosecond after the buyer tried it.


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## Doug B (Jun 19, 2017)

FatStrat2 said:


> You mean me? Hey, I'm trying my ass off here, I have a deadline in fact. And when I'm dealing with trading a superb LP Studio for another single cut arch-top, I'm not going to compromise.


What about a Guild Bluesbird?

Bluesbird in Iced Tea Burst | Guild Guitars

featuring a "lightweight chambered mahogany body "


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

FatStrat2 said:


> I grew up playing a Japanese Univox Les Paul "lawsuit" guitar. High quality, lightweight - really a precision instrument that was laughed at by 'real' Les Paul owners (until they played it and appreciated that it's well put together).


I'm not a cork sniffer, but I own several Gibson Les Pauls. One of the best playing and sounding LP style guitars I've played in the past year was a Jay Turser I bought for $70 on Kijiji. I think every instrument speaks for itself, but you're increasing your chances of getting a good one with better brand, although the cheaper brands occasionally nail it.



FatStrat2 said:


> BTW for those that care, I had enough luck to play a Les Paul Ultra a few days ago (this city has a great variety of guitars). While it's a beautiful looking guitar and fits into all my parameters, I was surprised & a little disappointed by its lack of quality. It felt sort of cheap.


I've had three Ultras, and I know what you mean - I think if they had toned down the tops a bit they would look better. I didn't find any lack of quality however. But to my earlier comment, all three sounded great, and I really liked the nanomag once I figured out its quirks.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Doug B said:


> What about a Guild Bluesbird?...


I like it, it's got a bit of Gretsch in it too. But it's 40% over budget. At that price point, I may as well start weight-gambling on another LP Studio.


BlueRocker said:


> ...One of the best playing and sounding LP style guitars I've played in the past year was a Jay Turser I bought for $70 on Kijiji...


I hear ya, and I've experienced similar stories. In fact, that Univox I mentioned was a winner too. Hoping to reproduce the magic, the next Univox LP my brother bought turned out to be a plank of wood. BTW, both of them fell off the back of a truck while being transported to a gig. They found wood pulp and a few electronic bits by the time my band circled back to look for them (like an hour later). So many other trucks ran over them in that busy commercial highway.

The problem w/ low budget sleepers is I'm tired of leaving that sort of 'lottery' win up to chance. A man can only visit so many shops & homes and try so many hoping the next guitar is the 'one' to adopt - only to be let down yet again. It's a waste of time & energy and turns something that's supposed to be pleasant into a chore.

As was touched upon, a quality brand doesn't guarantee a perfect fit, but chances are better it will be.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)




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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

^ Yeah, that's why I started this thread, I needed some assistance. When I look at my collection, I'd say most are like that - except for my 2 newest.


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## Gavz (Feb 27, 2016)

FatStrat2 said:


> The problem w/ low budget sleepers is I'm tired of leaving that sort of 'lottery' win up to chance. A man can only visit so many shops & homes and try so many hoping the next guitar is the 'one' to adopt - only to be let down yet again. It's a waste of time & energy and turns something that's supposed to be pleasant into a chore.
> 
> As was touched upon, a quality brand doesn't guarantee a perfect fit, but chances are better it will be.


I hear that renegade. My last purchase was a fluke as I was trying out Yamaha Revstars. I was jonesing hard for a Revstar and spent weeks looking. I decided to check out a few shops to get a taste for all the different models, nothing jived at the time. I picked up a Grestch gold top at St. John's Music and couldn't put it down. It was an easy buy and I play it every day. I never even considered a Grestch. You never know.

Sent from my SM-A205W using Tapatalk


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

Gavz said:


> ...and spent weeks looking...


I bought 2 of my guitars the same way. But try on & off for 4 years. Gets tiring after a while. 

I'll also have better variety once the borders open too.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I've arranged to play one of these ESP Eclipse guitars tomorrow. I'm not thrilled about the gold hardware or matte black (one wears easily and the other smudges easily), but I can't be too picky. I've played these before and I know they're quality.

MIK, 7.5lbs and under $1K. Cross fingers, this could be the one.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

So I bought it. It looks pretty much like the pic above and it was an even trade for what I got from the sale of my LP Studio.

As expected from MIK, it's very good quality and put together well, fit & finish is impressive. Very solid, but unlike my Studio, it's not built like a tank having almost 3lbs less weight. Eventually over a year or so, I'll be replacing the gold hardware w/ Gibson chrome bits. I'll just have to deal w/ the matte black finish.

I'd like to thank everyone who posted in this thread with their kind advice. It helped a lot, appreciate it.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

For those that care, I managed to have enough funds left over from the Gibson LP Studio sale that I could get this thin-body Indonesian made Jackson single cut archtop. So, in the end I managed to get a 2 for 1 on my heavy LP when I was only looking for a 1 to 1 trade.

This Jackson is a surprisingly well made unit, fret work is really good. The neck is 12" - 16" compound radius and feels pretty slick. But the black hardware is not, it's just meh and so is the nut - easily fixed though, in time. Only a tad over 7lbs and balanced, no neck dive. I'm actually bonding with this one more than the ESP Eclipse.


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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

One last silly update.

I sold the ESP Eclipse I only bought 3 weeks ago. Its 'Black Beauty' look made it easy to sell. I lost $75 on the deal, no biggie. But I'm way up overall.

This Jackson is one of those Tuesday - Thursday guitars. I've really fallen for it, it's underrated and a lucky find - I can't put it down. I would have traded my Studio 1 for 1 no problem for this. Once I replace those godawful tuners & the nut, it will be a keeper.


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## Gavz (Feb 27, 2016)

That Jackson is a nice score. I've only seen one of those for sale in my area before. I like the compound necks as well.

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## FatStrat2 (Apr 7, 2021)

I found this locally just the other day. It's a limited run US made Gibson LP CM. Seller advertised it as a Melody Maker, maybe because a CM is little known? Because of that I got it dirt cheap. According to Gibson snobbery, it came out of the 'forgettable/regrettable' 2015 era. Feels to me like Gibson hit a homer with this one, but most seem to ignore it. Their loss. The infamous robo-tuners were originally mounted on this one but replaced w/ Grovers somewhere down the line. I'm good with that.

Beautiful guitar: slim-bodied mahogany, thin satin dyed finish, full width curved maple cap, hand wired electronics, 61 PAF, extra thick fretboard, plays like a typical LP - and lightweight too (6.9lbs, just weighed it). Checks all the right boxes, I have a feeling this one will sneak into my top 3.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

there is a Les Paul Custom Light, which may or may have not been mentioned. I have one but it's a Greco from Japan. But Gibson made them as well. Looks exactly like an LP but is about as thick and about the same weight as a Fender Strat. Take a look at the jack plate. 
A normal LP has a square one


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

$3K plus for a Gibson Custom Lite

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