# Guitar buying co-op



## roadflix (Nov 4, 2008)

Lately I've played some pretty good Chinese acoustics - specifically the Masterbuilt Epiphones and GAD Guilds. Knowing how factory costs can get multiplied as the product moves through the distribution channels I did a bit of research and tracked down a Chinese maker who does solid wood acoustics - unbranded Taylor knock offs - 3A spruce tops, solid rosewood backs and sides and ebony fretboards. Landed in Canada I estimate it would price out at $600 to $700 (depending on the strength of our dollar.)

Buying direct from the factory requires a bare minimum order of 12 guitars. I wondered of there was any sense in talking up a buying co-op of 12 or more people. The advantage is, of course, cost. The disadvantages are 1. paying up front, 2, Not seeing or playing the guitar before taking delivery and 3, No guarantee.

At this point in time I'm only soliciting feedback - positive or negative. Would the idea fly or is it a waste of time?


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

roadflix said:


> Lately I've played some pretty good Chinese acoustics - specifically the Masterbuilt Epiphones and GAD Guilds. Knowing how factory costs can get multiplied as the product moves through the distribution channels I did a bit of research and tracked down a Chinese maker who does solid wood acoustics - unbranded Taylor knock offs - 3A spruce tops, solid rosewood backs and sides and ebony fretboards. Landed in Canada I estimate it would price out at $600 to $700 (depending on the strength of our dollar.)
> 
> Buying direct from the factory requires a bare minimum order of 12 guitars. I wondered of there was any sense in talking up a buying co-op of 12 or more people. The advantage is, of course, cost. The disadvantages are 1. paying up front, 2, Not seeing or playing the guitar before taking delivery and 3, No guarantee.
> 
> At this point in time I'm only soliciting feedback - positive or negative. Would the idea fly or is it a waste of time?


Given that this is your first post, I'd suggest actually building a reputation here and contributing to the community before soliciting a business proposal... but that's just me.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

There are a number of companies like Sparrow that do a similar thing now. If you had Canadian based quality control, set-up, and shipping, it would work. Otherwise it's a "buyer beware" scenerio.

I'm curious. Anyone else?

Peace, Mooh.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Hamstrung said:


> Given that this is your first post, I'd suggest actually building a reputation here and contributing to the community before soliciting a business proposal... but that's just me.


I missed that fine detail. Good advice.

Peace, Mooh.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Hamstrung said:


> Given that this is your first post, I'd suggest actually building a reputation here and contributing to the community before soliciting a business proposal... but that's just me.


Well said.

Dave


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

Paul said:


> I avoided being the first response along those lines. The cynical part of me thinks that either:
> 
> a) the OP is looking to start a business with other people's money, or
> ii) the OP is trying to fund a bulk purchase and get a free guitar for himself.
> ...


I'd have no problem with that either. If it had been anyone on the board that had at least built an online repore with the rest of the group I'd think more people would be interested in the idea. I just think it's bad etiquette to introduce yourself to any community with what appears to be a business proposal. It's like a door to door salesman or a sales phone call at dinner and to me just about as welcome. 
I'm not saying this guy is spamming. In fact I think it looks like an honest question without any hidden intent and maybe even a good idea. I'm just trying to suggest to the OP firmly but gently that it's best to become part of a community before "pitching" (or at least appear to be) something.
Again, like I said that's just me reading early in the morning with not enough coffee in me!


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## roadflix (Nov 4, 2008)

Hamstrung said:


> Given that this is your first post, I'd suggest actually building a reputation here and contributing to the community before soliciting a business proposal... but that's just me.


Point taken, and advice appreciated. I've read the forum over the last few months but really don't see myself as a enough of an expert to give anyone else advice. And, until today, had no questions to ask. I tend to look at stuff from "outside the box" and just thought there might be merit in going factory-direct to eliminate all middlemen.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

roadflix said:


> Point taken, and advice appreciated. I've read the forum over the last few months but really don't see myself as a enough of an expert to give anyone else advice. And, until today, had no questions to ask. I tend to look at stuff from "outside the box" and just thought there might be merit in going factory-direct to eliminate all middlemen.


 
Introductions aside, welcome aboard! 
As for your idea, I've thought of that sort of thing as well but there's lots to consider when importing from somewhere like China. Especially wood products which if I'm not mistaken may be subject to quarantine if you don't do your homework. That's not to say it's impossible but it would merit some investigation before sending any money overseas.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

I suggest playing alot of guitars at local shops and finding the one that talks to you and buying it.

Buying any acoustic blind is crazy, IMO.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

*You gotta love this one*

While I am sure your intentions are probably honest, there is no one that could be interested in a Taylor knock-off from China, firstly you never really know who you are dealing with and I sure wouldn't want you or any one else to put up money just to end up with something very inferior ( poor quality).
We have seen a flood of guys peddling knock offs that were so bad that they could be considered dangerous.
And Mooh, we have a company ( guitar builders ) by the name of Sparrow ( in Vancouver ) Electric guitars, not bad ax's, but they make there own, so I am curious as to who these other guys are.
With all good intentions, I know I would be to afraid to get involved and lets not even get into the Tax problems from over sea's and the landing costs, so welcome aboard and I hope you luck.Ship


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## bobb (Jan 4, 2007)

Last I heard was that Sparrow guitar bodies, necks and bridge parts were made in China. Assembly and upgrades are done in Vancouver, which includes a bone nut, stainless steel frets, American pickups and pots, Grover tuners and paint.


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> I suggest playing alot of guitars at local shops and finding the one that talks to you and buying it.
> 
> Buying any acoustic blind is crazy, IMO.


Very wise words indeed.


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## rbbambino (Oct 10, 2007)

Hamstrung said:


> Introductions aside, welcome aboard!


I agree with this welcome. I've spend many hours lurking on forums, so I know where you are coming from. I also understand the concern about spammers etc.
So all that aside, as a relative newbie.. don't take offense and don't be a stranger.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Ship of fools said:


> While I am sure your intentions are probably honest, there is no one that could be interested in a Taylor knock-off from China, firstly you never really know who you are dealing with and I sure wouldn't want you or any one else to put up money just to end up with something very inferior ( poor quality).
> We have seen a flood of guys peddling knock offs that were so bad that they could be considered dangerous.
> And Mooh, we have a company ( guitar builders ) by the name of Sparrow ( in Vancouver ) Electric guitars, not bad ax's, but they make there own, so I am curious as to who these other guys are.
> With all good intentions, I know I would be to afraid to get involved and lets not even get into the Tax problems from over sea's and the landing costs, so welcome aboard and I hope you luck.Ship


Are you sure about Sparrow? My local retailer insists they are made in China. Assembly may be in Canada, but assembly doesn't equal manufacturing. I am sincerely curious about this. I wonder if they are fretted, painted, wired, here or in China...ie, just how much is done here.

Peace, Mooh.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Mooh said:


> Are you sure about Sparrow? My local retailer insists they are made in China. Assembly may be in Canada, but assembly doesn't equal manufacturing. I am sincerely curious about this. I wonder if they are fretted, painted, wired, here or in China...ie, just how much is done here.
> 
> Peace, Mooh.


quote from the website 
So the kind-hearted guitar maker devised a way to import bare bone guitars from factories in Asia--the same ones used by "American made" guitar companies like Gibson and Fender--dismantle the instruments and completely overhaul them with new hardware, fretwork, electronics, paint and artwork informed by what Bones calls "classic cool '50s greasy stuff."


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

*Things might have changed*

I remember meeting the guys from Sparrow when they first started to promote their line in Richmond here at Noteworthy music and they were said to be handbuilts by them, I believe thier shop was around Clark and Hastings then ( don't know if they are still in that area ), that was a while back, but I will check this coming week-end we have our Vancouver Guitar show coming this Sunday at the Croatia Center and they have been there since they started so I guess its time to find out for sure Mooh and will let you know, to me there is a difference to promote Canadian made or assembally down in Canada and I was under the impression that they were all Canuck made,let you know on Sunday.Ship:rockon2:


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## Tony Burns (Dec 20, 2007)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> I suggest playing alot of guitars at local shops and finding the one that talks to you and buying it.
> 
> Buying any acoustic blind is crazy, IMO.


I know alot of you folks are probably saying that newby stuff about me ( only an ocassional poster from the US ) This original idea might be winner- isnt that what music stores do - buy for 50 percent and make 20% to 50% profit ( or more )- mabe buy 5 and he gets a free guitar ( thats less than 20 % ) Just my thoughts - Personnally I agree with Jeff -But I dont buy stuff sight unseen or take chances with someone without a established reputation - or a brand without a good track record - and the guitar should speak to me - i look at these beautiful stringed devices as alive - they should at least like me !


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

I'll have Fender, Martin and Taylor fans mad at me, but I would put my money on one of the Godin Guitars and you would have just as fine a product and one with a guarantee.


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