# Is it my Imagination?



## mandocaster (Jan 11, 2007)

Is it my imagination, or is modern rock music beginning to sound all the same?

There seems to be two styles...1) Really SAPPY songs about basically nothing substantial i.e. Blue October's "Hate Me"...WTF!!!!  

or 2) Songs that sound like a blend of Nickelback & Nirvana, with that grundgy guitar and that practically irritating octave singing (either two voices singing an octave apart, or one through an octave device, can't tell), paralleled by a third-up high harmony.

I've been listening to a Lethbridge, AB station for a while, and they run thru the same set of tunes every hour or so, peppered with classics.

What happened to melody? :confused-smiley-010


----------



## hoser (Feb 2, 2006)

I've never heard of Blue October.
All that Nickleback, Theory of a Deadman, Default, Puddle of Mudd....all follows the same formula...that's kind of died off a bit thankfully.


----------



## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

There's so many acts and so little room on the charts that as soon as something works everybody tries to do their own variation: thank god for the few bright spots. It's not just music, but movies and tv too.


----------



## rippinglickfest (Jan 1, 2006)

*Developed*

What you hear on the radio is the result of the big record companies just wanting hits.......so its all gonna sound like the group de jour. Long gone is the development of a band....hence all these flash in the pan types. Flip side to this RUSH is realeasing their 18th studio album.
You'll never see Nickelback do that.


----------



## mandocaster (Jan 11, 2007)

rippinglickfest said:


> What you hear on the radio is the result of the big record companies just wanting hits.......so its all gonna sound like the group de jour. Long gone is the development of a band....hence all these flash in the pan types. Flip side to this RUSH is realeasing their 18th studio album.
> You'll never see Nickelback do that.


A. You'll get no argument from me on that.
B. That's why I roll my own.
C. Oddly enough, Nickelback has a slim chance of going the distance. I said 'slim'.


----------



## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...mainstream radio will put just about anybody off music. turn it off.

mainstream radio has been playing the same six songs for an entire generation. it is a rotting corpse.

the problem, of course, is that as we get older, we fall "out of the loop". we no longer hang out at record stores or sit around with our friends turning each other on to our latest "discovery".

at any given time, there is a world of great music being made. subscribe to satellite radio (if it survives) or get an ipod and load it up (too expensive and time consuming for me). or get into listening to music on your computer, hooked up to a decent stereo.

-dh


----------



## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...mainstream radio will put just about anybody off music. turn it off.
> 
> mainstream radio has been playing the same six songs for an entire generation. it is a rotting corpse.
> 
> ...


What he said. There's always great music being made- it's just a matter of whether you're actively seeking it out anymore. For the most part, listening to the radio isn't going to introduce you to anything good.


----------



## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

That Blue October song actualy is a very powerful, if you listen from the very begining.
It starts with this guys mom calling him (and this was the actual message left on his machine) the next day he is found dead by his own hand...True story.

I like the radio more as background music but when I want to hear good music I go IPOD or turn to the internet. My #1 internet station is icebergeradio.com every type of music with no commercial and completly free.

If you are bored with all the mainstream stuff then its time to look at the other music out there. youtube is great for this, once you watch a video it gives you options of simular music..find some cool stuff this way. Just watch the time...

Bev


----------



## mandocaster (Jan 11, 2007)

nine said:


> What he said. There's always great music being made- it's just a matter of whether you're actively seeking it out anymore. For the most part, listening to the radio isn't going to introduce you to anything good.


Thanks....lol I know that radio is NOT the source. It happened to be on when I assumed my wellsite shack, and out of some kind of morbid interest I decided to listen to what was being played. The word "crap" comes to mind. But everyone's responses so far have confirmed that my imagination was still fresh and lively.... :wink: 

....and reconfirmed why I feel fortunate, and I'm sure many of you do too, that we all can make music WE LIKE. I was simply amazed how homogenous-sounding all these tunes were, in the same manner as backwards hats and baggy pants are in modern youth fashion. NOTHING STANDS OUT.


----------



## mrdylan (Apr 22, 2006)

I agree with most of what has been said but also you have to keep in mind that we are getting older. Not relating to what is being currently released as popular music is a sure sign.

I think people forget that. I remember my dad telling me everything I listened to growing up sounded exactly the same but I didn't think so at all and still don't. He plays guitar as well so he has a musical ear.

evilGuitar:


----------



## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

just a sure sign of aging...next you`ll be wearing your pants up under your arm pits.


----------



## rippinglickfest (Jan 1, 2006)

*Natural Selection*



mrdylan said:


> I agree with most of what has been said but also you have to keep in mind that we are getting older. Not relating to what is being currently released as popular music is a sure sign.
> 
> I think people forget that. I remember my dad telling me everything I listened to growing up sounded exactly the same but I didn't think so at all and still don't. He plays guitar as well so he has a musical ear.
> 
> evilGuitar:


 I think its more to do with being very, very selective as we get older. I'm up on whats out there, and some of it is good, a lot of it is vacuous.
But I know what I like............lets put it that way.


----------



## mrdylan (Apr 22, 2006)

sneakypete said:


> just a sure sign of aging...next you`ll be wearing your pants up under your arm pits.


Who wears pants?


----------



## mandocaster (Jan 11, 2007)

sneakypete said:


> just a sure sign of aging...next you`ll be wearing your pants up under your arm pits.


The latest fashion: Octogenarian Hip Hobble....pants to the armpits, crotch to the ankles.


----------



## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

rippinglickfest said:


> But I know what I like............lets put it that way.


And then eventually that "I know what I like" attitude evolves into a reluctance to try anything new. Haha. 

So, in summary, the three stages of life are:

Young- try it all. If it doesn't kill you, try it again.

Middle- taste is getting refined. You know what you like and seek out more.

Old- You know what you like and insist that nothing good has been released since. And those kids are on your DAMN LAWN AGAIN!


----------



## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

jroberts said:


> ...and eatting dinner at 4:00 p.m.


Nose and Ear hair trimmer purchase is another.


----------



## mandocaster (Jan 11, 2007)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> Nose and Ear hair trimmer purchase is another.


Speaking from experience?


----------



## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

mandocaster said:


> Speaking from experience?


I raise my hand in shame, :wave:


----------



## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

rippinglickfest said:


> What you hear on the radio is the result of the big record companies just wanting hits.......so its all gonna sound like the group de jour. Long gone is the development of a band....hence all these flash in the pan types. Flip side to this RUSH is realeasing their 18th studio album.
> You'll never see Nickelback do that.


Actually, most of the classic rock that's being played to death on the radio today was never suitable for radio back when it was made. It was album rock. Underground music, remember? There were a few bands that had one hit off each album at the time, but today every song is remembered as being a hit. It was not representative of the bulk of top 40 music. The best music did not usually get airplay. It's the same today.


----------



## rippinglickfest (Jan 1, 2006)

*Original Sin*



Lester B. Flat said:


> Actually, most of the classic rock that's being played to death on the radio today was never suitable for radio back when it was made. It was album rock. Underground music, remember? There were a few bands that had one hit off each album at the time, but today every song is remembered as being a hit. It was not representative of the bulk of top 40 music. The best music did not usually get airplay. It's the same today.


These are two very different eras of creativity ............and my point is today there is no better or great original music, airplay or no airplay. The MAJORITY of it is shallow, non original and recycled which is exactly why they are playing the hell out of Classic Rock


----------



## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

rippinglickfest said:


> These are two very different eras of creativity ............and my point is today there is no better or great original music, airplay or no airplay. The MAJORITY of it is shallow, non original and recycled which is exactly why they are playing the hell out of Classic Rock


And that's where you're dead wrong. I can't even candy coat it for you in any way. You're wrong and that's that. Mainstream radio and it's listeners are shallow. They're the problem. The baby boomers want to hear what they love. It's not for a lack of great new bands and music.

For the love of god- you sound like some crotchety 90 year old man who's interest in music stopped at barbershop quartets. Go listen to Neko Case's last album and tell me it's not genius. Chances are you've never even heard of her. Of course, now that I've said that, you'll claim that you have, but whatever.

There's lots of great stuff out there- you've just gotta drop your preconceptions and open up your ears. Step out of your "I know what I like..." attitude and you just may find other things you like.


----------



## mandocaster (Jan 11, 2007)

Er, calm down, folks!

This isn't Peter & Belinda!

I think there is room for everyone to be right here, but I hear toe bones cracking....

Every year good music comes out. We don't always get to hear it. Someone needs a profit, i.e. Ahmet Ertegun with Led Zeppelin nearly 40 years ago is an example. And for damn sure you didn't hear "The Lemon Song" on the radio, OR Plant's orgasmic huffing and panting in "Whole lotta Love"....just a short version.

Now me, crotchety & critical as I can be, stuck in my rut of old rock, got dragged, kicking and screaming, by my somewhat more open-minded girlfriend, to a Bif Naked concert. The whole time I was resisting, until I saw them, and they were in no uncertain terms, a KICKASS band. Pro show all the way, full of energy and vaudevillian tricks. Bif did her homework.

And I wouldn't have given her the time of day.

Nonetheless, some of the homogenized smarmy dirges I hear on modern rock radio have no parallel in the past. The elders in my family liked the Stones, the Beatles, Cream, back then. What snippets were played on AM stations back then (No FM outside of, say, CHUM, in the 60's) hinted at the creativity to be found on the albums.

Nowadays, the allusions to mayhem and violence, in no uncertain terms, (and it shouldn't be censored, either) is a big chunk of content. Art reflects life, I'm noticing. 

I just find nowadays it sounds exactly the same....songs don't have verses & choruses, but instead consist of an endless repition of the same three or four chords. Groups of triplets dominate the cadence. And that zombielike octave singing. Wow.

I'm not surprised at how it can lead to a kind insular, maudlin, even wistful desire for the old. But that is only 'cuz some of us heard that other stuff, back in the mists of time. As Bif showed me, not that I rushed out and bought her album, er, CD, there is modern stuff lurking around that is just as good and creative as all of our fuddy-duddy old stuff.

Clearly we have our opinions! Rave on! Yeah! None 

:rockon2:


----------



## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

rippinglickfest said:


> These are two very different eras of creativity ............and my point is today there is no better or great original music, airplay or no airplay. The MAJORITY of it is shallow, non original and recycled which is exactly why they are playing the hell out of Classic Rock


I wasn't really disagreeing with you there, in fact I agree, your post just triggered my comments. My point being radio has never been the place to discover the best music.

In my opinion there has been very little progression in rock&roll since the mid 70's. It never really survived disco. What followed, Punk rock/New Wave, was when rock started feeding off its former self instead of looking outside the genre for new influences. Soon after we start hearing the term "retro" and we know its about over. Musical incest. There are of course exceptions like the Cars, Police, U2 and a few others. I'm not saying there wasn't any good music in the 80's and 90's, it just wasn't groundbreaking. Country music is in the same state. Clones of clones.

The problem today is there are very few untapped cultural pools to dip into. The world is becoming one place with one music. The McDonalds style recording industry just keeps serving up McMetal, McHip Hop, McBrittany, McGeorge Jones Clone etc. with no interest in changing the 20 year old menu. Why should they if people are buying it? Who do we blame if anyone at all?

Sooner or later someone will come along like Louis Armstrong or the Beatles and change _all_ the rules.


----------



## mandocaster (Jan 11, 2007)

Lester B. Flat said:


> Sooner or later someone will come along like Louis Armstrong or the Beatles and change _all_ the rules.


I'm McLovin' it!

...and don't forget the mentor of your namesake Lester Flatt....the man whose initials _WERE _WSM, both metaphorically and in actual fact, William Smith Monroe.

The blues changed him, and he changed the blues.


----------



## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

*"It's the exact same thing, only different..."*



nine said:


> And that's where you're dead wrong. I can't even candy coat it for you in any way. You're wrong and that's that. Mainstream radio and it's listeners are shallow. They're the problem. The baby boomers want to hear what they love. It's not for a lack of great new bands and music.
> 
> For the love of god- you sound like some crotchety 90 year old man who's interest in music stopped at barbershop quartets. Go listen to Neko Case's last album and tell me it's not genius. Chances are you've never even heard of her. Of course, now that I've said that, you'll claim that you have, but whatever.
> 
> There's lots of great stuff out there- you've just gotta drop your preconceptions and open up your ears. Step out of your "I know what I like..." attitude and you just may find other things you like.


Hey, news flash! Mainstream radio has ALWAYS been shallow!

I grew up during those times. You have to understand that FM radio was little more than 10 years old and was struggling to find its place. AM was king! That was the home of the top 40. That was the home of payola scandals, too.

AM was already what even mainstream FM is today. It was run by "suits". That is, "by the numbers". 

Few radio stations today choose their own set lists. They buy complete sets from companies that have absolute numbers on every song you can imagine. They can tell you what song will have what kind of impact on whatever demographic of listeners you are targetting. If a song doesn't have numbers then it doesn't get played. 

You need a channel for new releases into the mix, of course. So the labels have that sewn up mostly with formula pop. They fast-grow Spears clones until they appear a young 15, teach 'em how to pole dance and build a video around them to sell fashion, lunch boxes and toothbrushes. The band is just unknown session men, interchangeable.

Some say rock died when Gene Simmons and the boys started marketing Kiss lunchboxes. There does indeed seem to be something to the theory. Videos were a kick in the gut too. They could've been a great enhancement but today they seem just eye candy. You can flog almost any piece of crap song if you have a good enough video. I lump metal into that same category. How many times do we have to see the same old satanic images?

It's just so "Tap".

The difference is that during the golden years FM radio HAD NO "numbers"! So they could do whatever they wanted. DJs pulled their own records, often from their personal libraries. The "3 minute single" went out the window. Those were hippy times and not only was everyone too stoned to keep numbers but a large part of experiencing the vastly better quality of FM sound was to toot up and put on some headphones. You could get lost in entire album sides of Moody Blues, Straubs and King Crimson.

This was an extremely creative environment. There was a huge variety of music and artists and big numbers of listeners abandoned AM formula radio almost overnight. That's the real reason music is virtually gone from AM today.

The "suits" are ambitious and tenacious types, however. Through the 70's they kept worming their way back in. They couldn't give numbers for FM material because as I said, nobody ever logged any. AM however had all the data they needed! Of course, AM never played the album cuts but only the Top 40 hits. Many bands would release these just to make some money to pay the bills but all their respect came from their albums. It was expected that the entire album should contain good songs, not just a couple to hook the buyer and the rest just crap. Often the AM cut was a pruned version of an album track. Most of my crowd never heard the shortened version till years later on stations supposedly playing "Classic Rock".

The worst thing in Canada is the CanCon rules of playing perhaps a third of your songs from Canadian artists. Like so many such schemes, it sounds good in theory if you're a shallow thinker. In practice what happened is that "suits" figured out that it was easier and cheaper to keep playing the same old stuff to fill the CanCon requirements and NEVER, NEVER, NEVER play anything new! 

I used to like Rush. Now I've heard so many repetitions I just can't stand them anymore.

http://www.letsfixcancon.ca

Today, you indeed have to scrounge. College radio as always helps a lot. If you're lucky enough to live close to CFNY in Brampton you hear a lot of new stuff. They've always prided themselves on being the leading "Edge". Internet stations also get around the "suits" and thrive on the word getting out through "underground" methods in the "younger" culture.

All that being said, I still would agree that there's been a downward trend in the quality of music. Hardcore at least has some good guitar playing but it seems to be also based on a formula. The leads can be good but the rhythms sound to me like just hard power cording. This evokes primal feelings but those type of feelings are just that...primal! All body stone and nothing for your head. Like going to bed with a sweet sexy blond and waking up to find out she's a total airhead!  It does indeed too often sound like "McMetal".

Yeah, you can call me an old man that disparages young folks for doing things their own way. I'll even grant that's somewhat true. Before you write me off however it's only fair that you consider this"

Listen to King Crimson's "21st Century Schizoid Man" and then play the 'Peas "My Hump".

Then try to tell me that music today has not gone downhill...:food-smiley-015:

There are exceptions to everything. Neko Case may indeed be a genius but I would say a LONELY genius!


----------



## rippinglickfest (Jan 1, 2006)

*Video killed the Radio Star*

Now were talking.............lets keep it going. Is it possible for another Beatles or Louis Armstrong in an era of copying the copyist?


----------



## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

Hey, news flash, Wild Bill! You just did a lot of typing to agree with what I said. I specifically pointed out that radio and it's listeners are shallow. And comparing King Crimson with a mainstream radio staple like the Black Eyed Peas is ludicrous. A more fair comparison would be with Mercury Rev. Or the Flaming Lips.

Anyway, I fully agree with everything that you typed but the real point that I was trying to get across is that there IS good music out there. It's just not on the radio. Rippinglickfest's self-admitted "I know what I like" thing seems to me to be what's stopping him from seeing that. 

Saying that music died after any given person's perceived "golden era" is always wrong in my mind. 

I bet your dad thought your music was crap. And you thought it wasn't. Well, unfortunately, I think you've moved into my stage 3 of listening to music as well. If it's any consolation, it happens to everyone. As people get older they get more conservative. Even the ones that think they're really out there on the edge (or, used to be).

Oh yeah- and CFNY stinks now. They're just mainstream radio for "alternative" music. Like any other radio station, if you listen to it for more than two days you'll notice that they play the same crap every day. The same 10 songs. Usually some Evanescence-y or Puddle of Crapp sounding junk. Hey- they've gotta make money, right? Everybody does. Of course, there are some good shows on that station, but it's bread and butter programming is nothing more than standard FM junk, but in the "alternative" spectrum of style.

For every Nickelback, there's a Raising The Fawn. For every Britney, a Neko Case. I'm sorry, but you guys can waste as much breath as you want saying that music is dead and the majority of stuff out there is repetitive crap but I'm never going to agree with you. If you're too closed minded or whatever to find the decent stuff then I can't help ya. 

You can lead a horse to water...


----------



## rippinglickfest (Jan 1, 2006)

*But you cant make him drink*

There is great music out there....................but the whole scene is not teaming with life the way it was years ago. Sad but True.
And since when is it wrong to say "I know what I like".( i think most people know what they like, regardless of age)..............I buy and listen to new music all the time...as I mentioned earlier, most of it is vacuous..... And I'm sorry, for every Nickelback theres a decent equilibrium?..................thats just not the case. Regardless of how open minded you are there's only so much you can do with 12 notes and the point is, too many of them are using the same ones, the same way.
PS. I like Raising the Fawn.............but Neko Case.......alternative country.......not my bag.


----------



## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

I'm out of ideas in regards to this topic and I'm pretty sure I've said everything I can. Other than this:

Built to Spill. :banana: 
Arcade Fire (Canadian, new album out soon)
The Constantines (Canadian)
The Inbreds (Canadian)
Joel Plaskett (Canadian)
Macrocosmica
Menomena
Modest Mouse (new album out soon with Johnny Marr on guitar)
Pavement
Phoenix
Rogue Wave
The Shins
Wilco

Take your pick. I'd imagine the guitar guys will love Built to Spill. Doug Martsch clearly puts a lot of time into his guitar tones and playing. To be an equally great songwriter just blows my mind.


----------



## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

Wild Bill said:


> Listen to King Crimson's "21st Century Schizoid Man" and then play the 'Peas "My Humps".
> Then try to tell me that music today has not gone downhill...:food-smiley-015:


...apples and oranges, wild bill. two entirely different genres. the reality is that guys like you and i are out of the loop. there is still lots of great music being made, just like "21st Century Schizoid Man". and still lots of stupid pop pap, just like always. remember fabian?

so, i take it you weren't sitting on the edge of your sofa cheering when "my humps" won a grammy?

:banana: 

-dh


----------



## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

david henman said:


> so, i take it you weren't sitting on the edge of your sofa cheering when "my humps" won a grammy?
> 
> :banana:
> 
> -dh


If she actually showed me her humps instead of teasing me with them in song, I might've! She's a bit of a butterface though. It's got the well-worn texture and colour of a professor's bookbag. Heh heh.


----------



## rippinglickfest (Jan 1, 2006)

*Lol*

Hahaaaaaaaaaa........Apples and Oranges again.


----------



## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

*I'm coming out of the closet!*

I confess.

I LOVE WOLFMOTHER! 

There, I said it and I don't care who knows!

Seriously, we are all shaped by our formative years. Mine were the years of the great guitarist.

I like a lot of contemporary rock but the common factor is still the guitar. If the band can't play it I either don't like it or actually find it irritating.

Perhaps that's why I can't enjoy pop rock with unknown players as sidemen or hiphop. I never could handle totally a cappella groups like the Nylons but that's only because being straight I'm just not equipped. :food-smiley-015:


----------



## rippinglickfest (Jan 1, 2006)

*Lol*

Woman, you know you,
Woman, you gotta be,
Woman
Hahaha
You're right............it is the formative years.


----------



## hoser (Feb 2, 2006)

I like classic rock as much as the next guy but I find Wolfmother really boring.

I grew up in the mid 80s-mid 90s. I always found most of music in places other than the radio...now is not much different except I have the internet to help me find stuff, as opposed to relying on magazines.


----------



## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

you mean "my humps" is an actual...and I hesitate to use this word...song? Some company is using it for a TV ad in Japan and I thought it was one of their attempts at English. I like to think I`m pretty open minded about music but my humps is pushing things .


----------



## hoser (Feb 2, 2006)

it's a black eyed peas song.
their stuff before fergie joined is 100x better.


----------



## sneakypete (Feb 2, 2006)

oh...thats a name I`ve read about. see, radio in this city is the reason I bought my first guitar...they play a song and in the middle of it...start talking and they do that all the time so I got so frustrated one day I disconnected my tuner and have not listened to radio in 11 years. you guys think radio is bad where you are?...it is impossible to enjoy here...now, I don`t know if it`s the same for every japanese city and they do have cable radio with no interruptions, but commercial radio in Sendai is intollerable.
good sushi...bad radio.


----------



## hoser (Feb 2, 2006)

sneakypete said:


> oh...thats a name I`ve read about. see, radio in this city is the reason I bought my first guitar...they play a song and in the middle of it...start talking and they do that all the time so I got so frustrated one day I disconnected my tuner and have not listened to radio in 11 years. you guys think radio is bad where you are?...it is impossible to enjoy here...now, I don`t know if it`s the same for every japanese city and they do have cable radio with no interruptions, but commercial radio in Sendai is intollerable.
> good sushi...bad radio.


is that so people won't be able to dub from the radio?
the only stations I listen to here are the classic rock station (rarely...their playlist consists of the same 30 or 40 songs. boring) and talk radio. The other stations play garbage like the Pussycat Dolls 24/7. Usually I just plug my mp3 player in in the car.


----------



## nine (Apr 23, 2006)

hoser said:


> Usually I just plug my mp3 player in in the car.


Thank god for mp3 players, huh? I love having our iPod in the car. No more stacks of CDs and crap that gets lost under the seats. Just plug and go.


----------



## hoser (Feb 2, 2006)

indeed. my kiddo was in the "must destroy dad's cds" phase so I ripped my whole collection. now the cds in storage.


----------



## gampersnaz (Mar 5, 2007)

*...New Music...*

As a Whole New Rock is Not really that great...
I Hate like Nickelback,Hinder etc 
its all very much the same....


----------

