# Martin D-28, $750. Toronto



## laristotle

he also has a MIM Strat for $350
Martin D28CW Acoustic Guitar w/hardcase | Guitars | City of Toronto | Kijiji


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## Wardo

Bloor and Landsdowne about 15 minutes away average traffic.


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## laristotle

Worth checking out, if it's authentic?


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## Wardo

It has the wide sound hole and I think the serial is from 2006 not sure when they stopped making them though. Those were going for about 3.5 to 4 used on reverb. I don’t have time to check it out.

what I want is the Ernest Tubb D35 .. lol


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## jdto

Nothing looks overtly fake from those photos, but I’d be very skeptical of this guitar at $750


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## Wardo

Yeah I thought the pics looked about right from what you can tell from them. Agree on skeptical although even for a fake you’d think they’d be asking more.


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## vadsy

Wardo said:


> Yeah I thought the pics looked about right from what you can tell from them. Agree on skeptical although even for a fake you’d think they’d be asking more.


just yesterday I came across a fake Martin story, and the price suggested something was wrong from the beginning. Dude visited a shop that was blowing out nearly two identical Clapton models for $500US each, he grabbed them both. got them home and then to a tech for a setup and within seconds of opening the case the tech called them fakes, which they were. he's fighting with the shop right now to get them refunded. he mentioned checking the serial numbers with Martin, everything checked out. The shop was closing and blowing everything out after the owners passing, my guess is they were just pulling everything out of the back to sell including these two knockoffs


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## Wardo

Fortunately I don’t need any more guitars.


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## Distortion

Wardo said:


> Fortunately I don’t need any more guitars.


You and 100's of readers of this forum. Including myself.


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## jdto

Distortion said:


> You and 100's of readers of this forum. Including myself.


Need? No. Want? Oh baby...


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## Fox Rox

It is sold. Not to me unfortunately.


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## Scottone

Wardo said:


> I
> what I want is the Ernest Tubb D35 .. lol


I had to look that up....now I want one too


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## sillyak

vadsy said:


> he mentioned checking the serial numbers with Martin, everything checked out.


Why do people still think checking a serial # with a manufacturer is any sort of authenticity check? Sure it's a start, but fakers have been putting the proper serial # on a given model for awhile now.


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## Jim Wellington

sillyak said:


> Why do people still think checking a serial # with a manufacturer is any sort of authenticity check? Sure it's a start, but fakers have been putting the proper serial # on a given model for awhile now.


So on a standard production Martin, wouldn`t that require the faker to create a new wood headblock with model and serial # burned into the wood? With paper labels I see it being much easier. The custom shop models carry paper labels with no laser etching, so I suppose they could be copied.


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## sillyak

Jim Wellington said:


> So on a standard production Martin, wouldn`t that require the faker to create a new wood headblock with model and serial # burned into the wood? With paper labels I see it being much easier. The custom shop models carry paper labels with no laser etching, so I suppose they could be copied.


Say the faker is making a run of fake D28s. Faker goes on sweetwater, types in D28. Well there is a D28, serial # M2320306. Make your whole run with that same serial #. Someone phones Martin asking if that serial # is legit, Martin will say that "yes that serial # belongs to a 2019 D28."


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## Jim Wellington

sillyak said:


> Say the faker is making a run of fake D28s. Faker goes on sweetwater, types in D28. Well there is a D28, serial # M2320306. Make your whole run with that same serial #. Someone phones Martin asking if that serial # is legit, Martin will say that "yes that serial # belongs to a 2019 D28."


That would be one of the reasons why I won`t buy a guitar without having it in my hands...The other reason would be..."China".


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## Wardo

Jim Wellington said:


> .. The custom shop models carry paper labels with no laser etching, so I suppose they could be copied.


yes but they also have Martin Custom Shop and a serial number burned into the headblock


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## jdto

If the fake is so good you can't tell the difference and you love the sound of it, does it matter?


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## Distortion

jdto said:


> If the fake is so good you can't tell the difference and you love the sound of it, does it matter?


YES


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## jdto

Distortion said:


> YES


If you never know, then it doesn't, is my point. If a fake is so good that the person who owns it never finds out, then that person owned the "real thing" their whole life. Martin has history etc. behind it, but in the end, it's a bunch of wood and a little metal put together with glue. Don't get me wrong, I don't buy fakes and don't approve of them, but I also don't find it hard to believe that a guitar could be made with the same craft and materials somewhere other than the Martin factory and live out its life as a "Martin". Does where it's made matter, or does the perception matter? To the person who owns one and thinks it's a Martin, the perception matters more than the origin of the guitar.


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## Guncho

You didn't mention the "you never know" part.

Obviously if someone doesn't know it's a fake and it sounds great, it's not going to matter.


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## sillyak

I don't think many fall for fakes. I think fakes mainly just dupe beginners and the ill informed who have never played/owned the real thing. Even the most recent fakes have pretty obvious tells. They will never go through a painstaking process to get everything perfect when they are selling them for $250.

I just find it odd that people think confirming a serial # means it's real, like a faker can't look up a real serial # and put it on a fake.


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## Guncho

I don't know man. I get like 20 spam emails a day and they all have spelling mistakes. How hard is it to check the spelling in an email?

Trying to find an actual serial number for a specific model of guitar just reeks of effort and does require some pretty high level guitar knowledge. I dont think my wife could find the serial number for a 90's Les Paul Studio, etc.


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## jdto

Guncho said:


> You didn't mention the "you never know" part.
> 
> Obviously if someone doesn't know it's a fake and it sounds great, it's not going to matter.


Fair. I probably should have added that detail to my original point.



sillyak said:


> I don't think many fall for fakes. I think fakes mainly just dupe beginners and the ill informed who have never played/owned the real thing. Even the most recent fakes have pretty obvious tells. They will never go through a painstaking process to get everything perfect when they are selling them for $250.
> 
> I just find it odd that people think confirming a serial # means it's real, like a faker can't look up a real serial # and put it on a fake.


The ultra-cheap fakes, I agree. Some of the higher-end ones are getting really good, from what I've seen/read (I haven't and won't ever buy one myself). They're doing it with watches, too. Without a loupe or opening the watch up, it's very hard to spot the good ones as fakes. There are whole online communities dedicated to them. And they're actually good watches in their own right, if they didn't steal the logo. I prefer to buy an homage, which has its own thing going, although it borrows from the heritage of the classics.

That said, given that my knowledge is second-hand at best, I'll leave it alone.


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## Wardo

jdto said:


> If you never know, then ....


Someone I know brought a D45 to a jam. I played it for a minute or two - didn’t hear what I’m used to and noticed a few things that didn’t look right although it didn’t register until later as I was kinda half out the door when I played this guitar. Looking back I think this guitar might be a bit dubious and I’d need to check it out in more detail but I’m thinking it might be a fake - although I’m not gonna mention that to the owner.


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## Distortion

You no a lot of people believe a good fake is totally acceptable as long as you sell it as such telling a buyer it is a fake. And what happens two or three buyers down the road. It is sold as original legit trademark manufactured guitar to someone that does not no the difference. Just pointing that out.


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## jdto

Distortion said:


> You no a lot of people believe a good fake is totally acceptable as long as you sell it as such telling a buyer it is a fake. And what happens two or three buyers down the road. It is sold as original legit trademark manufactured guitar to someone that does not no the difference. Just pointing that out.


Absolutely. All it takes is one dishonest person in the chain and it's a problem. That's why I'd prefer to buy a replica with a different logo, rather than a fake. Sadly, I bet a lot of scammers try to pass them off as real.


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## vadsy

Distortion said:


> You no a lot of people believe a good fake is totally acceptable as long as you sell it as such telling a buyer it is a fake. And what happens two or three buyers down the road. It is sold as original legit trademark manufactured guitar to someone that does not no the difference. Just pointing that out.


I say we publicly flog those people


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## Distortion

vadsy said:


> I say we publicly flog those people


The outcome should be the same as manufacturing and distributing counter fit money. Hear comes the hate mail.


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## sillyak

Distortion said:


> The outcome should be the same as manufacturing and distributing counter fit money. Hear comes the hate mail.



Agreed. Counterfeits have straight up ruined some hobbies. They will never ruin music, but they aren't good for anyone and I refuse to support them in any way.

Make a replica, fine, but don't put a fake logo on it.


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## Peter Puck

sillyak said:


> Say the faker is making a run of fake D28s. Faker goes on sweetwater, types in D28. Well there is a D28, serial # M2320306. Make your whole run with that same serial #. Someone phones Martin asking if that serial # is legit, Martin will say that "yes that serial # belongs to a 2019 D28."


What is wrong with you people. Faker is going to make a passable copy of a D28 CW, sell them for $750 and somehow make money? Head shake


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## jdto

Peter Puck said:


> What is wrong with you people. Faker is going to make a passable copy of a D28 CW, sell them for $750 and somehow make money? Head shake


Why do you post?


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## sillyak

Peter Puck said:


> What is wrong with you people. Faker is going to make a passable copy of a D28 CW, sell them for $750 and somehow make money? Head shake


Of course it isn't passable to those who know a thing or two. Some people are fooled, most are not. My post was to say nothing more than phoning Martin with a serial # is not some sure fire way of checking for a fake.


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## laristotle

Peter Puck said:


> Faker is going to make a passable copy of a D28 CW, sell them for $750 and somehow make money?


Maybe it only costs him $250 to make?


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## Peter Puck

laristotle said:


> Maybe it only costs him $250 to make?


A passable copy for $250? ... the tuners cost that on a CW. Wyy do you guys argue nonsense all the time? Just to be jerks?


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## jdto

Peter Puck said:


> A passable copy for $250? ... the tuners cost that on a CW. Wyy do you guys argue nonsense all the time? Just to be jerks?


Irony


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## laristotle

Peter Puck said:


> the tuners cost that on a CW


not when they're counterfeit.


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## Jim Wellington

Peter Puck said:


> What is wrong with you people. Faker is going to make a passable copy of a D28 CW, sell them for $750 and somehow make money? Head shake


Have a look at this..... Martin_Guitar of China Your one stop shop for guitars-China Guitar Wholesale


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## Peter Puck

Jim Wellington said:


> Have a look at this..... Martin_Guitar of China Your one stop shop for guitars-China Guitar Wholesale


Again .... if that fools you, you deserve to lose your money. If you seriously cant tell AT A GLANCE that guitar is not a Martin no one can help you


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## Milkman

Peter Puck said:


> Again .... if that fools you, you deserve to lose your money. If you seriously cant tell AT A GLANCE that guitar is not a Martin no one can help you



LOL, we're not all as sharp as you seem to think you are.

I've seen some Chibson Less Pauls that were convincing enough from a few feet away and some that you would have to partly disassemble to really be sure.

But, yeah, anyone who can't tell deserves to be ripped off eh?

Nice.


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## Jim Wellington

Peter Puck said:


> Again .... if that fools you, you deserve to lose your money. If you seriously cant tell AT A GLANCE that guitar is not a Martin no one can help you


I`m not in any danger of buying a fake copy. I was pointing out the fact that it`s unfortunate that fakes exist in great numbers. I own a handful of Martin`s and I resent cheap copies. No one deserves to be ripped off...I don`t agree with your opinion at all.


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## Budda

That guy is back eh?


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## sambonee

In the Philippines they switch the p for f with man words. Manila’s not that far is it Peter?


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## Peter Puck

Jim Wellington said:


> I`m not in any danger of buying a fake copy. I was pointing out the fact that it`s unfortunate that fakes exist in great numbers. I own a handful of Martin`s and I resent cheap copies. No one deserves to be ripped off...I don`t agree with your opinion at all.


You guys just like to argue and no logic will prevail. Like I said the tuners on a real CW cost more than what those cost to make. And no, no one is counterfeiting those tuners anywhere near the spec let along the guitar anywhere near spec. If you want to argue with logic and fact, I cant help you with that either. Not here to wipe baby tears.

If you cant see these fakes at a glance then yes - you're that dumb and to bad.


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## jb welder

Peter Puck said:


> Wyy do you guys argue nonsense all the time? Just to be jerks?


Why do you come here and be a jerk all the time, just to post nonsense?
Is this the only forum you troll, or can you point us to others where we can also be entertained by your belligerent idiocy?


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## John Reilly

Peter Puck said:


> If you cant see these fakes at a glance then yes - you're that dumb and to bad.


I suppose one who would commit this kind of fraud may justify their deeds in this way .


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## jdto

Peter Puck said:


> If you cant see these fakes at a glance then yes - you're that dumb and to bad.


Irony


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## Jim Wellington

Peter Puck said:


> You guys just like to argue and no logic will prevail. Like I said the tuners on a real CW cost more than what those cost to make. And no, no one is counterfeiting those tuners anywhere near the spec let along the guitar anywhere near spec. If you want to argue with logic and fact, I cant help you with that either. Not here to wipe baby tears.
> 
> If you cant see these fakes at a glance then yes - you're that dumb and to bad.


Oh...so sorry. I failed to realize I was dealing with the"BOSS" of all things guitar related. You truly are an epic wealth of myopic visionary statements. Like a pebble in my shoe, you`re a short term distraction, with no lasting effect...


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## guitarman2

jdto said:


> If the fake is so good you can't tell the difference and you love the sound of it, does it matter?


It definitely matters that there are criminals out there that counterfeit. No matter what it is they are counterfeiting.


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## tomee2

Chinese fake products exist at nearly all quality levels. You can buy a $50 Rolex that is easily spotted as a fake or a $500 fake that you have to open the back to really see it.
Wooden guitars are easy to fake compared to a Rolex especially in a country that has no problem with $1day wages or whatever it is.
Those tuners youre obsessed with can easily be copied, to be nearly identical to the real thing. They are masters at manufacturing.

If you have doubts as to what the chinese will fake...read this.
Regarding-Epiphone-Les-Paul-Custom-Tops

Fake cheap guitars. Fake expensive guitars. Fake car parts, fake aircraft parts (that need to be xrayed to be spotted).
Over 1 billion people available to work in your factory to make money for you with no criminal repercussions by your own government. Think about that.

China-made counterfeit parts found in US military aircraft: Senate

Counterfeit Chinese Parts Slipping Into U.S. Military Aircraft: Report

US weapons 'full of fake Chinese parts'

About Fake BMW car parts and BMW car spares forgery copyright support.


Brake pads 'made of grass' among the counterfeit car parts putting UAE drivers at risk

Chinese copycat cars: how do they get away with it?

Chinese Raid Captures Counterfeit Car Parts Destined For Australia - DataDot Technology Ltd

I could go on all day with this... It's a serious problem. Fake Martins are the least of anyones worries, and a fake martin, an exact fake, is a piece of cake for them if they wanted to do it.


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