# Traynor YBA-3A - to keep or not to keep?



## Jazzman (Dec 13, 2016)

Hey. 1st post here. I own what is likely an early 70's YBA-3A Super Custom Special. Had it since the late 70s. All original, no mods. Pulled it out for the first time in a few years because of an online ad looking for one. She's not the prettiest (had the bright idea in the 80s of spraying the face black and removing the nameplate), but she still sounds like she did 40 years ago (yes, been playing that long). The twin 8x10 monster cab's are long gone, but through modern cabs (current rig is all Mesa), I'm amazed how loud this thing is.

Looking for advice from those of you familiar with this legendary head: Been thinking of selling to free up some basement space. Would you let this thing go? And was the Super Custom Special different from the Custom Special or a YBA-3?


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Yep the super is louder compared to the reg Custom. I`ve been looking for one and still kick myself for not buying the last one that crossed my path . My wife said NO ! and I was stupid enough to listen to her.... It came with 2 810 cab also.

I am a player and a collector, no reason for me to really get one apart then I want one... lol

Congrats, you have yourself a nice piece of Canadien history in your hands.

pictures would be appreciated.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

The 3A is indeed different from the older YBA-3. Same chassis and the preamp is mostly the same but a different power section. The YBA-3 is 100-150 watts from a quad of 6CA7s (EL34) and the YBA-3A isb (allegedly) 250 watts from a quad of 6KG6As (still available new - search under the European designation: EL509 if you have trouble) and has the requisite beefier transformers so it's heavier. Both amps had earlier versions without a master volume and later versions with.

I personally wouldn't let it go (would cost more to replace then you'd get for it - due to the paint/missing badge), but I would also use the snot out of it; if you don't, let it go somewhere where it will see the use and take the cash. You'd get $500 minimum even with the aesthetic mods; bit rare to see them for sale (I've seen YBA-3s in local stores with user paint jobs dip down to there). To value it better we'd need to see it, but in perfect shape it could approach 1k though I've never seen one quite hit that mark. Considering the other options in this power category, still a steal even at mint condition price.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Just to note that the modern production EL509 (JJ) is not quite the same as the original so it is not plug & play. The pin out is quite different and the output tube sockets will have to be rewired. If you can find NOS 6KG6 or EL509, that would be much easier. The svetlana or winged-C are equivalent of NOS, it's just the JJ EL509 that is quite different.


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## Jazzman (Dec 13, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> The 3A is indeed different from the older YBA-3. Same chassis and the preamp is mostly the same but a different power section. The YBA-3 is 100-150 watts from a quad of 6CA7s (EL34) and the YBA-3A isb (allegedly) 250 watts from a quad of 6KG6As (still available new - search under the European designation: EL509 if you have trouble) and has the requisite beefier transformers so it's heavier. Both amps had earlier versions without a master volume and later versions with.
> 
> I personally wouldn't let it go (would cost more to replace then you'd get for it - due to the paint/missing badge), but I would also use the snot out of it; if you don't, let it go somewhere where it will see the use and take the cash. You'd get $500 minimum even with the aesthetic mods; bit rare to see them for sale (I've seen YBA-3s in local stores with user paint jobs dip down to there). To value it better we'd need to see it, but in perfect shape it could approach 1k though I've never seen one quite hit that mark. Considering the other options in this power category, still a steal even at mint condition price.


Yeah, it's a monster. This head weighs more than my guitarists' entire combo amps! That also explains why it seems a lot more powerful than the 130 watts I was always led to believe it's rated at. I'm used to my 600 w Mesa, but this thing has no problem driving a 600 w 2x10 cabinet, set at only 3 to 3 1/2. AND, explains why I was 'remembering' that this thing had 6CA7s until I opened it up.

To jb, I've found a few sources, including Vacuum Tube Superstore . I won't be messing with 509s. But actually, the ones in it seem pretty good.

Bottom line - I fired it up for a rehearsal last night. Everyone was amazed. It has the drive, sustain and character you only get from a good tube amp. Even though my Mesa Pulse 600 is a tube preamp/MOSFAT (?) config., the warmth and mids punch come much more naturally from the Traynor. Great combo with my vintage 1970 Fender Jazz.

Thanks for the info guys. Starting to lean toward keeping it!


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Jazzman said:


> Bottom line - I fired it up for a rehearsal last night. Everyone was amazed. It has the drive, sustain and character you only get from a good tube amp. Even though my Mesa Pulse 600 is a tube preamp/MOSFAT (?) config., the warmth and mids punch come much more naturally from the Traynor. Great combo with my vintage 1970 Fender Jazz.
> 
> Thanks for the info guys. Starting to lean toward keeping it!


Even at 3-3.5 on the preamp you're probably still driving the power section pretty well. That's where you want it for clean headroom. It sounds awesome because the amp can totally swing those waves with only moderate (and soft) clipping (ends up sounding more like coloured compression or peak limitting than distortion). It's working harder than the Mesa's ss power section, which you can't drive that hard because it will just clip.

The thing about hybrid amps is that 99% of makers do it wrong - tube preamp and ss power. This is because about a decade back when tubes 'came back' (especially for home recording, when the 'starved plate' thing started), it was all the rage to just drive the snot out of a single (at the time) crappy Chinese 12AX7 and call that tube tone (that's a whole rant all by itself), and because ss power sections are an order of magnitude cheaper per watt (as well as lighter), and you can easily make monster amps (e.g your 600 Mesa) that are not feasible with tubes. (Proper) tube preamps are cool but what they are not is robust; especially for bass (and active instruments) they can sometimes get flabby and have a hard time (e.g. my 65 Gibson EB3 with 30k DCR Mudbucker pickup; sounds strained through the vast majority of all tube amps I have tried, but run it into a cheap solid state Peavey Rage guitar practice amp and the thing comes alive). To truely be the best of both worlds, a hybrid amp would have a solid state preamp (which could include some OD effect) and a tube power section. This is in fact what Musicman did with the HD130 which is an amazing amp, under-rated in it's day but starting to be appreciated for what it can do. Not too expensive either.


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

If you are a bass player...keep it! i went through many many amps before scoring my YBA-3. The best amp ever made. I imagine this is as good if not better.
If you sell it, I gaurantee one day you will regret it.


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## Jazzman (Dec 13, 2016)

capnjim said:


> If you are a bass player...keep it! i went through many many amps before scoring my YBA-3. The best amp ever made. I imagine this is as good if not better.
> If you sell it, I gaurantee one day you will regret it.


Maybe the best advice I've heard, capnjim. Thanks!

One thing I've always found is that this head is light on the bottom end. Doesn't help that my Jazz doesn't have a hefty bottom end either. I've always EQ'd to compensate; but now comparing to my Mesa, there's a big difference. Bass boost & expander seem to bump not-so-low mids, which doesn't really help. Is that typical of the YBA-3A? (It is passable with one of my meatier basses, but just.)


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

I have no lack of bottom end with the yba3 and 2x 215.. I always played it with my westone super headless Wich has an on-board eq with lots of bottom end mind you. My fender jazz plays wonderfully on it also... what bass do you use ?


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## Jazzman (Dec 13, 2016)

Well this is turning into an adventure. I've been in touch with Mike Holman, one of the originals with Traynor/Yorkville who's still there on a semi-retired basis. Fascinating. Now looking at a bit of a cosmetic refurb. Whether I keep it (which is now likely) or sell, she deserves that after years of collecting dust (OK, protected in a road case, but figuratively). I'm fortunate to be a hop across the 401 from Yorkville's headquarters. I'll be back to this thread before year end with before and after pics.

Thanks all!


Frenchy99 said:


> I have no lack of bottom end with the yba3 and 2x 215.. I always played it with my westone super headless Wich has an on-board eq with lots of bottom end mind you. My fender jazz plays wonderfully on it also... what bass do you use ?


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

I also have no lack of bottom end with my YBA-3 and 2x15. I have the bass almost on zero. If I turn it on past 1-2 it literally shakes stuff off the walls.
If you are only using a 2x10 cab, you won't get much low end.
If you have a jam room where you can leave your gear, you should get a good 2x15. 
You will be amazed how good it sounds.
Cheers


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## Jazzman (Dec 13, 2016)

Frenchy99 said:


> I have no lack of bottom end with the yba3 and 2x 215.. I always played it with my westone super headless Wich has an on-board eq with lots of bottom end mind you. My fender jazz plays wonderfully on it also... what bass do you use ?


This is mainly with my '70 Fender Jazz. Less of a issue with active basses, but still noticeably different from my other amps.


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## Jazzman (Dec 13, 2016)

capnjim said:


> I also have no lack of bottom end with my YBA-3 and 2x15. I have the bass almost on zero. If I turn it on past 1-2 it literally shakes stuff off the walls.
> If you are only using a 2x10 cab, you won't get much low end.
> If you have a jam room where you can leave your gear, you should get a good 2x15.
> You will be amazed how good it sounds.
> Cheers


Well I've got the bass up full. (As noted, the Expander and Boost seem to add low-ish mids, like 4-500hz or so. The 2x10 is a 600w Mesa that shakes the walls with the Mesa head. In the past, I used the 3A with various cabs and always found the same thing. Also have a Mesa 15 that I add for larger rooms, but the 2x10 is normally pretty beefy on its own.


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

Is it possible you need new power tubes? Even pre-amp tubes can have an effect on tone. I would expect that amp to really shake the walls. But then again, it is quite a bit different from the YBA-3. Maybe its sounding the way its supposed to.
Mine has way too much low end. Even with my Jazz pickup.


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## Jazzman (Dec 13, 2016)

Have my doubts capnjim. Haven't checked them yet (who still does this in Mississauga?) but I recall replacing them shortly before putting it into hibernation. Besides, it's always been like this, for as far back as I remember. And tubes have been replaced in the past. Since it takes so much power to drive bass frequencies, you'd think that a more powerful version of the -3 would be at least comparable.

Just in a Long & McQuade store where the mgr. is a vintage amp buff. He was wondering if this might be a case of weak capacitor(s). I'm no tech, so what do I know? May be something to check out. Anyone know anything about this? (I may throw that up on a separate thread.)


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## Bulltrout (Nov 28, 2013)

Did you ever get the electronic issue sorted out?


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## Jazzman (Dec 13, 2016)

Bulltrout said:


> Did you ever get the electronic issue sorted out?


Jury's still out. The old girl's been at Yorkville for a while now (in non-urgent mode). People there have been great. They tracked down original schematics to find that there were 2 different versions, mine being what they think was the later one (no, it doesn't have a separate Master Volume; just 1 volume control). They're gradually examining it to find whether a) there were mod's (possibly right out of the factory by special order) and/or b) a faulty capacitor or other parts. So _patiently_ waiting for an outcome. Kind of dragging on at this point.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

LOL, it's funny how with vintage amps, you're better taking them to yer local tech than the original maker. Your local guy probably works on these all the time and Yorkville hasn't seen one since the 80s.


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

Damn, I didn't know those existed...
Now, I want one!!!


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

Jazzman said:


> Yeah, it's a monster. This head weighs more than my guitarists' entire combo amps! That also explains why it seems a lot more powerful than the 130 watts I was always led to believe it's rated at.



Traynor's ratings were always lower than what the amp actually put out.


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## Bulltrout (Nov 28, 2013)

Ti-Ron said:


> Damn, I didn't know those existed...
> Now, I want one!!!


I've been looking for one for more than five years now....


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## Jazzman (Dec 13, 2016)

colchar said:


> Traynor's ratings were always lower than what the amp actually put out.


Yup. Through research I've found that the YBA-3A was capable of driving up to about 400 watts. It'll run down to 2 ohms, since it was originally paired with the huge twin 8x10 cab's. Level is definitely not an issue, and unlike some older tube amps, it seems to get sweeter the harder you drive it. Guess that's why they became so popular for guitar.


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## Jazzman (Dec 13, 2016)

Bulltrout said:


> I've been looking for one for more than five years now....


Well stay tuned. Mine _might_ become available.


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## Jazzman (Dec 13, 2016)

Granny Gremlin said:


> LOL, it's funny how with vintage amps, you're better taking them to yer local tech than the original maker. Your local guy probably works on these all the time and Yorkville hasn't seen one since the 80s.


Ain't that the truth Granny. Trick is, you have to know who's good. I wasn't going to turn this baby over to just any electronics hack. At least there are still a couple guys still at Yorkville who've been there forever. And honestly, I had more challenges getting my Mesa head serviced in its first year than I've ever had with Traynors. OK, hard to compare, since this is the first time I've ever had to have a Traynor serviced.


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## Jazzman (Dec 13, 2016)

Bulltrout said:


> I've been looking for one for more than five years now....


Look in TO dude. Traynors were everywhere in the 70s & 80s thanks to the Yorkville/Long & McQuade presence.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

The 3*A*s are still rare even here; a lot of them got shipped out all over back when they were still stoopid cheap (especially with the dollar conversion - the Yanks have been hip to them for at least a decade) and those who have them aren't selling.


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## Thornton Davis (Jul 25, 2008)

I remember buying my first YBA-3 and YC810 in 1968 from Phil Sherman and Ron Bossart at ABC School of Music in Willowdale. I recall Phil telling me that there was talk of Pete Traynor making a more powerful version of the YBA-3 Custom Special that needed 2 YC810 cabs. Of course the amp was the YBA-3A Super Custom Special.

I grabbed the photos below online a number of years ago because they show the Traynor backline of gear that was used at the Toronto Rock & Roll Revival show in Sept of 1969. This is the show that John Lennon and The Plastic Ono band performed at.

Notice behind Chuck Berry the prototype YBA-3A amp heads. This amp cabinet design was never used for the production version of the amp. I don't know what ever became of these particular amps as I've never seen them in person or any other photos of them. You can see each YBA-3A is strateling 2 YC810 cabinets. I'd gladly give credit to the photographer but I have no idea who took these photos. Just thought I'd share them.







TD


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## Thornton Davis (Jul 25, 2008)

Here's one more photo from the above show.



TD


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## Bulltrout (Nov 28, 2013)

Jazzman said:


> Look in TO dude. Traynors were everywhere in the 70s & 80s thanks to the Yorkville/Long & McQuade presence.


I look in TO as well, but the 3A is a very rare beast though.  If you decide to move yours, please send me a note.


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## Jazzman (Dec 13, 2016)

Thornton Davis said:


> I remember buying my first YBA-3 and YC810 in 1968 from Phil Sherman and Ron Bossart at ABC School of Music in Willowdale. I recall Phil telling me that there was talk of Pete Traynor making a more powerful version of the YBA-3 Custom Special that needed 2 YC810 cabs. Of course the amp was the YBA-3A Super Custom Special.
> 
> I grabbed the photos below online a number of years ago because they show the Traynor backline of gear that was used at the Toronto Rock & Roll Revival show in Sept of 1969. This is the show that John Lennon and The Plastic Ono band performed at.
> 
> ...


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## Jazzman (Dec 13, 2016)

Awesome Thornton! Those cabs were made for guitar, nicknamed "Rogue" or bass - the "Big Bass". I used them early on with my head. They were monsters, even by 60’s / 70's standards, a good foot or more wider than the SVT 8x10 cabs. Lot of thunder. Thanks for sharing!


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## Dave Green (Oct 2, 2017)

So, what happened to your YBA-3A? Did Yorkville ever finish the servicing? Did you keep it or sell it? Or do you want to sell it now???


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## highwayjones (May 26, 2006)

capnjim said:


> If you are a bass player...keep it! i went through many many amps before scoring my YBA-3. The best amp ever made. I imagine this is as good if not better.
> If you sell it, I gaurantee one day you will regret it.


I concur. Keep it.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Dave Green said:


> So, what happened to your YBA-3A? Did Yorkville ever finish the servicing? Did you keep it or sell it? Or do you want to sell it now???


@Jazzman has not been active since August 2017.


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## Dave Green (Oct 2, 2017)

I know. Bummer, that.
Anyone know where else Jazzman haunts?


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

no, but those are great amps


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Dave Green said:


> I know. Bummer, that.
> Anyone know where else Jazzman haunts?


Have you tried sending him a PM ? He may get email notifications for them.


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