# Eh english muff'n vs bk butler tube driver



## stringer (Jun 17, 2009)

Hi everyone. I'm a relative novice when it comes to pedals. I currently have an old 3 knob Butler tube driver and an old korg pme with o/d, dist, phaser, flanger, compressor, analog delay, and an analog chorus and an eh wiggler, but would still like to try out some other types of distortion pedals perhaps from the present millenium. I am wondering about the Electro Harmonix English Muff'n. Is it true analog? Is it decent? Is it a lemon? Is it the same thing as the butler? Would they work well together or would all those tubes = noise? ps I'm playing into a stock blues junior with an old mij strat, and an Epi les paul with humbuckers and a godin king pin 2 with p90s.

Any information you could share would be appreciated.


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I haven't tried the BK Tube Driver, so I can't comment on the differences, but I have an English Muffin.

The biggest drawback that I find, is the size of the pedal, it's huge!
Pretty good distortion unit though, more so than a fuzz pedal.

With the three band tone stack, it's tweakable enough to get what you want out of it.
Tons of sustain, I do like the pedal.


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## stringer (Jun 17, 2009)

Thanks sulpher. Have you had the muff'n a long time? What kind of tube life can I expect? I've read that different tubes can make a difference in sound. Have you tried any non stock tubes?


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

I haven't used it a whole lot, due to the size, mainly.
So, I haven't changed, or tried other tubes.

I had heard that different tubes will change the tone.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

The stock Muff'n apparently comes with 12AY7 tubes. In the 12Axx universe, these are lower on the gain scale, with 12AX7 at the top, then 12AT7. I forget whether12AU7 is lower than AY or just a bit higher.

In any event, the same way one can dicker around with gain structure and feel in an amp by pulling an AY or AX and subbing the other one in this stage or that, the same thing can be done with the Muff'n, theoretically without compromising anything. You should be able to safely switch back and forth until you find something you like. The EHX site even has suggestions for playing around with tube configurations.

Gain is multiplicative (i.e., gain of 20x times a gain of 30x is equal to 30 x 20), so in principle you would get the same output regardless of what order the tubes are in. But there are likely tone-shaping aspects in each stage, such that order (12AX7->12AY7 vs 12AY7 -> 12AX7) will likely matter a bit in terms of tone.

The Butler uses one tube and actually does most of the gain via op-amps, running the boosted signal through a 12AX7 to provide some of that tube coloration. I know very little about the insides of a Muff'n, but given that it has a pair of tubes (thus 4 potential gain stages), I imagine that all of the gain is done via the tubes, rather than none of it. So, it is a lot more like an amp front end than the Butler is. At the same time, if one's intent is to use it to push your amp, rather than provide a tone of its own, the Butler may well do more of what you like in a slightly smaller package.


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## stringer (Jun 17, 2009)

Thanks a lot mhammer. I was wondering if you could mix 'n match tubes or if both had to be the same. Looks like I got the answer. I might take the plunge. I like the idea of some minor tinkering.


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## Noise Supply (May 31, 2013)

I had one for many years hooked up to one of my amps. I changed tubes once, can't remember what I changed to, but I liked it before and after as well - though there was a slight difference. Like Sulphur said the 3 band EQ makes it very tweakable. It's a cool overdrive and will probably work well for you. I sold it a few months ago, only because I thought I was going to sell the amp that I liked it paired with.


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## stringer (Jun 17, 2009)

Thanks for the input Noise Supply. The amp that went well with the pedal, was it tube by any chance?


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## Noise Supply (May 31, 2013)

stringer said:


> Thanks for the input Noise Supply. The amp that went well with the pedal, was it tube by any chance?


Yep, an old Vox V125.


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## stringer (Jun 17, 2009)

Thanks to those of you who responded. I found a decent deal on an english muffin online so I took the plunge. Coming soon to a forum near you....NPD!


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