# Toxic family members



## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Have you ever had to cut out someone who’s toxic in your family?


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

My brother suffers from mental illness (and is in denial about it) and has cut out everyone in our family who don't agree with everything he says and does. He only speaks to our father. Has unfriended us on social media, etc. His only interests in life are skateboarding and comic books. He's 35, smokes a lot of pot, can't hold a job or a rental place, no friends, no girlfriend. Recently assaulted a tow truck driver.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Sometimes cutting out a family member can be a difficult task. Especially when that family member is your son. My son suffers from schizophrenia and is also a drug addict. For the most part my wife and I have cut him out of our lives but not entirely. We have to be careful and keep a distance. Just last year I found out something that nearly broke up my marriage of 34 years. Behind my back my wife was giving money to my son for many years. She racked up approximately $40,000 in debt which I had to add some of it to our mortgage a few months ago to manage it. She was suffering from emotional issues her self relating to my son and in some twisted way thought she was actually helping him. She is seeking help in some self help groups and I have complete control of all the finances indefinitely. I know that alot of this was my fault. I never paid one bit of attention to finances. My cheque would be deposited and I'd ask the wife if we were good for another gear purchase, etc.
She had squandered money on my son then tried things like gambling at the casino to get it back just making things worse. If you knew my wife you'd be shocked as she is a pillar of the community and church so this was a deep dark secret that shocked me to the core.
It only came to light when I started to get a bit involved with finances when I couldn't figure out why we made so much between us and yet were always broke. The more I got involved the more levels of deception I started to uncover. I remember the night she came to me and said "I have something to tell you and you're going to hate me and want a divorce". I thought she was going to tell me she cheated and had an affair. After what she told me I almost wished it was an affair. It would have been less financially devastating and perhaps easier to walk away. Our home line of credit was maxed, Our visa was maxed and she had a hidden line of credit at another bank that I uncovered. In a few months I had everything taken care of one way or the other and she doesn't even have possession of her credit card or debit card. If she needs the debit card for something I might give it to her and immediately get it back. It sounds controlling but its what I had to do. The good thing to come out of it is that I've learned much about budgeting and are more intuned with our finances and have become far more responsible my self.
She has cut our son out of her life more than I did because it was an emotional liability. She can't say no to him or resist his manipulations. She's changed her cell number and the only number he knows is mine and he has to call me if he wants to communicate.
Regardless of the reason for the toxicity the family member may cause there comes a time that you have to cut them out before they bring you all down with them. Its a sad situation and I worry every day what will happen to my son but I know there is nothing I can do for him. I still can't believe that as intelligent and successful as my wife is that she didn't think giving a drug addict so much money was a bad idea. I told her why didn't she just buy a gun and shoot him, it was more humane.
She really put us in a bad spot with me being 5 years from retirement and to suffer this much financial hardship to our plans. I have us on a program to double up mortgage payments, etc but we'll never get that lost ground back.
I don't know what the circumstances are like for you Lola but my advice is to carefully weigh the potential damage to you and your close family are and tread carefully. Its tough to follow it through with cutting out family.
I love my wife dearly and my dream was always to be married to one woman for life. Sometimes thats a lot of work.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Yep cut my sister out of my life when she had my mother change her will ( basically told her that she needed to sign her over as power of attorney so she could take care of bills and such and then convinced my mother that I should not get anything from an inheritance as she has given me enough over her life time ).
For me it wasn't the money it was the fact that she could do so even though her husband is worth millions and a half million left by my mother would make no difference to their life style. 
I would not have ever thought my own blood would be so cold but money well it does bad things to stupid people and the $250,000. yeah I could have fought it in court but as you know my health sucks and it would have taken more out of me emotionally and physically no amount of money is worth that to me and besides I am not financially hurting, not rich but I have a roof over my head and a 2019 Jeep Cherokee food in my belly and the greatest family I could ever wish for.
My sister doesn't have what I have HAPPINESS and love of family and I am far richer then she will ever be.


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

guitarman2 I totally get what you are saying and I understand now why your wife did what she did. A mothers love goes so deep that they just can't help them self's.
My heart goes out to you and her and I understand what it is like to have a drugged out son, ever day I dread that knock on the door by the police and hope that one day ( I'm dreaming ) that he cleans up but I also know it won't happen. Glad to hear that she is getting help and I do hope you and her get over this the love of a good women is not an easy thing these days hold on tight and never let it go my friend. best wishes lou


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Don't know about toxic but a couple of cousins and a step daughter I never got along with and a couple of idiot grandsons. 
@guitarman2.....my ex was giving the stepdaughters and older grandsons money all the time.....went as far as letting the one grandson live in our basement rent free. When he moved his girlfriend in I said screw it and shortly there after they were moved out and I took over the basement for a few months. Part of the reason she eventually became my ex. and I don't have to worry about them any more.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Cutting off family is hard. There was a point in time that I cut myself and my family meaning wife and kids from my siblings. We did all got back together again, but it was pretty much right before my father passed away. And it has never been the same ever since. I have this feeling that when the last glue (my mom) goes, it would even get worse. It's a difficult thing to do, but sometimes, it gives us no other choice because of the circumstances that's happening at that point in time.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

I grew up in a very toxic family, so I've had to deal with a lot of this. 

I don't believe in splitting up families either, so I have very minimal contact with a few members.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

yup. mental illness is a terrible thing.
as my aunt always said, you cant choose your family.
while this is true, you can control how much a part of your life they occupy.

In my case, its my bi-polar schizophrenic mother. I often think I only ever knew her disease, not her. Its how I try not to blame her for her actions. But at the same time, I dont want my daughter to ever be exposed to it, so we have no direct contact with her.


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## morepowder (Apr 30, 2020)

My only sibling has tried to take advantage of my parents for years, ever the victim. To the point that we have had no contact for close to 10 years now. I don’t see that changing.

One blessing and curse that I seem to have is I am a good listener and people trust me. Why I mention that is a lot of people seem to want to tell me about their family problems. It astounds me, sadly, I think very dysfunctional families and toxicity are much more common than we would like to think. It’s almost the norm rather than the exception.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

morepowder said:


> My only sibling has tried to take advantage of my parents for years, ever the victim. To the point that we have had no contact for close to 10 years now. I don’t see that changing.
> 
> One blessing and curse that I seem to have is I am a good listener and people trust me. Why I mention that is a lot of people seem to want to tell me about their family problems. It astounds me, sadly, I think very dysfunctional families and toxicity are much more common than we would like to think. It’s almost the norm rather than the exception.


I think talking about it just makes the toxicity worse. No family is perfect, you just make the best of what you have.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

Lola said:


> Have you ever had to cut out someone who’s toxic in your family?


There may be more families that have done this than NOT done it! There are people who just don't turn out well; sick people sometimes, more often just not good people and sometimes incorrigibly evil people. Unless your family is miniscule - even if it is - odds are you're going to end up with one or more of the bad ones in it.

I'll guess that you're asking because someone has pushed you to your limits. You should not allow guilt about your feelings to keep the door open for that person to keep harming you. There's no jail time for telling a family member to eff off; you're imprisoned now by your feelings.

You can't fix everyone. Step out of the cell and free yourself.

Good luck.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

morepowder said:


> My only sibling has tried to take advantage of my parents for years, ever the victim. To the point that we have had no contact for close to 10 years now. I don’t see that changing.
> 
> One blessing and curse that I seem to have is I am a good listener and people trust me. Why I mention that is a lot of people seem to want to tell me about their family problems. It astounds me, sadly, I think very dysfunctional families and toxicity are much more common than we would like to think. It’s almost the norm rather than the exception.


It came to blows with my nephew and my brother in law. My nephew left and ended up in Singapore. Even tho he was still in contact with his mom and sisters it took almost 15 years and his dad and grandmother getting very sick before he came back for a visit and I think he came back more for grandma than his dad even tho he spent most of 2 months with his dad when my sister was taking care of mom before she died.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

This will probably sound trite but, others may or may not change their toxic behaviours and the _only_ thing we can control is our exposure to it. Wherever possible, I limit my exposure to toxic people - including family members - to the absolute bare minimum required to either A) get whatever I may need from them; or B) to help make those I truly care about content. If neither requirement exists, I may decide that my threshold for exposure to an individual is zero. That determination can change day to day and over time of course. Essentially though, I consider it no different than any other noxious or toxic element in the environment that could potentially harm my health. Why should I risk exposure beyond what's absolutely necessary?


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## dmc69 (Jan 20, 2011)

I haven't done it quite yet but I have often considered it. My parents are extremely toxic to me and my brother's life. Controlling, manipulative, dishonest... the list goes on. The worst is they claim to be Christians and are religious. However, they are some of the most racist people I know. If anything, they are the worst representation of Christians and are probably more aligned with hardcore Southern Baptists or even the KKK, if the KKK had Asian people in it. As a Christian, I am ashamed of them and how poorly they reflect upon our community by their actions. A digression, but as an Asian, I am ashamed they are such staunch Trump supporters and of his rhetoric.

This all came to head when I started dating non-Asians. The amount of bigotry, misinformation, hatred, and general rudeness really woke me up to how bad it was.

The hard part? They're my parents. Cutting them out isn't as easy as some random on the street.


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## DaddyDog (Apr 21, 2017)

Wow this is a sad thread. I can't imagine. The worst I can come up with: When I see my wife's extended family at Christmas/Easter/Thanksgiving, and they ask how my family is, my running gag is 'well no one's in jail at the moment'. Always funny, but yes, I've had family in jail.


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## morepowder (Apr 30, 2020)

butterknucket said:


> I think talking about it just makes the toxicity worse. No family is perfect, you just make the best of what you have.


I have seen both sides of that. If a person wants to talk about something as a means to help process and put it behind them I think it’s good. But if they choose to get sucked into the drama or wallow in it it’s not healthy.

I think it’s a symptom sometimes of this Facebook generation. It’s too easy to get a bunch of Facebook “friends“ to click like and send hugs on some ”poor me“ post. And that becomes a persons identity if they’re not careful.


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## Fred Gifford (Sep 2, 2019)

sometimes you have to cut someone out to save your own life or sanity ..... you come first ... if you know it's wrong then you have to separate yourself or you will end up being dragged down too


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

DaddyDog said:


> Wow this is a sad thread. I can't imagine. The worst I can come up with: When I see my wife's extended family at Christmas/Easter/Thanksgiving, and they ask how my family is, my running gag is 'well no one's in jail at the moment'. Always funny, but yes, I've had family in jail.


On occasion that's been said in my family, both blood and extended/adoptive too. Having a family member in jail is not necessarily a biggy. Mind you, my son's girlfriend will not allow me at the house now when she's there. He doesn't have any problem seeing me and she knows well enough not to push it and I have no problem not seeing her.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Fred Gifford said:


> sometimes you have to cut someone out to save your own life or sanity ..... you come first ... if you know it's wrong then you have to separate yourself or you will end up being dragged down too


You sound like my last lawyer.....he did not like my ex.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

One of the maxims in the study of human psychological aging is that "people become more like themselves as they get older". It's not any sort of destiny from which one cannot escape, and people really _can_ change. But, as adults, we tend to select, and have a preference for, contexts that mesh comfortably and conveniently with our strongest personality traits, particularly those that are most convenient and complimentary, enhancing our sense of self-worth and feelings of control and success. So, in contrast to childhood when all of these influences on our development (where we live, our family, our school, socio-economic level family's religion/ethnicity, etc.) are chosen for us by _others_, and imposed upon us, as adults* we* get to do much more of the picking and we pick more and more things that we like, but which can simultaneously hem us in, and often entrench our worst inclinations.

Part of the trouble is that one can generally only make _suggestions_ to other adults. You can't impose conditions that would support and encourage change on their part unless they are intentionally trying to change, and agree to the imposed conditions. So one can end up with family members who seal themselves into psychological tombs, and become cognitively rigid, with no compromise possible. The best one can hope for is to bite your tongue and put up with them for someone else's sake, or hope for a cataclysmic event in their lives that nudges them towards a desire for change.

I guess I'm fortunate. I can't say that I'm pleased as punch to spend time with every single one of my extended family members, but they're all at least tolerable, and many of them downright fun. No quarrels with any of them, and nothing shameful that I wouldn't want to be even remotely connected with. I have one sister, and both my wife's and my parents are long gone. I wish our two sons had someone in their lives, and occasionally worry that they might end up alone, but they are both an absolute pleasure to spend time with. My sister can be aggravating with some of the bad choices she makes and has made in her life, but we get along, and she's mature enough to acknowledge her own bad judgment. So, no familial toxicity here...touch wood.

BUT, a childhood friend who I stayed in touch with for decades went off the deep end around 20 years ago. He would leave harassing accusatory voice-messages on my work phone and appeared to be phoning our house and waiting silently. I held out hope that it was just a phase and we could resume our longstanding friendship. This was, after all, the friend who introduced me to Paul Butterfield, Jimi Hendrix, the Mothers of Invention, and the Fugs back when we were just kids, and the films of John Waters some years after that. We drew comic books together, made up goofy song lyrics together, and stayed in touch even though his family had moved first to Los Angeles, then to Cape Breton, back to Ottawa, and eventually he to Toronto. And when he "turned", it just became too painful. I'm still in intermittent contact with his kid brother, who became a minor cult sensation in British music circles, and ask about him now and then. But I couldn't risk the potential harm to my family by keeping him in my life. Sometimes, you just have to let go.

It's one thing to do that with a friend or even a spouse or non-immediate family member. Doing that with a child has got to be one of the most painful experiences imaginable. Small wonder there are so many classic plays written on that theme.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

morepowder said:


> My only sibling has tried to take advantage of my parents for years, ever the victim. To the point that we have had no contact for close to 10 years now. I don’t see that changing.
> 
> One blessing and curse that I seem to have is I am a good listener and people trust me. Why I mention that is a lot of people seem to want to tell me about their family problems. It astounds me, sadly, I think very dysfunctional families and toxicity are much more common than we would like to think. It’s almost the norm rather than the exception.


My younger brother was that way. My dad eventually kinda cut him off but my mom would send him money behind my dad's back. After my parents passed he tried very hard to get money off me and my older brother from time to time and from time to time he got it. My brother and I (probably my mom too) saw it as a cheaper way to keep him up in the Yukon and away from us (my kids in particular). Sadly he was found dead in a farmer's market in Ottawa a few years ago. I'm still trying to figure out how to feel about that.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

dmc69 said:


> I haven't done it quite yet but I have often considered it. My parents are extremely toxic to me and my brother's life. Controlling, manipulative, dishonest... the list goes on. The worst is they claim to be Christians and are religious. However, they are some of the most racist people I know. If anything, they are the worst representation of Christians and are probably more aligned with hardcore Southern Baptists or even the KKK, if the KKK had Asian people in it. As a Christian, I am ashamed of them and how poorly they reflect upon our community by their actions. A digression, but as an Asian, I am ashamed they are such staunch Trump supporters and of his rhetoric.
> 
> This all came to head when I started dating non-Asians. The amount of bigotry, misinformation, hatred, and general rudeness really woke me up to how bad it was.
> 
> The hard part? They're my parents. Cutting them out isn't as easy as some random on the street.


I think you have to keep some historical relativism...As uncomfortable as it makes us today, racism was pretty common with previous generations. Some bad stuff happened back in the day, and opinions were formed by pretty much everybody about everybody.
Heck, growing up in the 70's-80's it seemed like any time you met a friends parents or an older person, the first questions they'd ask is "where are you from?"...and Canada, wasnt an acceptable answer. everybody felt like by knowing your ethnic background, it would reveal something about you. Most of the time, it wasnt harmful/hateful...just, awkward.
If its any consolation, caucasians werent seen as homogenous back then either....i could go over the litany of ethnic slurs whites had for each other depending where they were from, but it would take hours. Honestly, we made fun of each other far more than of other visible minorities. Probably why we didnt think of ourselves as racist...theres a line you dont cross.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

dmc69 said:


> I haven't done it quite yet but I have often considered it. My parents are extremely toxic to me and my brother's life. Controlling, manipulative, dishonest... the list goes on. The worst is they claim to be Christians and are religious. However, they are some of the most racist people I know. If anything, they are the worst representation of Christians and are probably more aligned with hardcore Southern Baptists or even the KKK, if the KKK had Asian people in it. As a Christian, I am ashamed of them and how poorly they reflect upon our community by their actions. A digression, but as an Asian, I am ashamed they are such staunch Trump supporters and of his rhetoric.
> 
> This all came to head when I started dating non-Asians. The amount of bigotry, misinformation, hatred, and general rudeness really woke me up to how bad it was.
> 
> The hard part? They're my parents. Cutting them out isn't as easy as some random on the street.


Yeah, I don't think you should consider cutting them out because they think in "older ways" or happen to like Trump. My best suggestion is to know what you don't like about them and make a point of not being that way. Honour and love them. Keep the best parts. Take care in judging them just because they come from a different time.

For example, my parents didn't exactly care for Germans because of, well - bombs.

I don't know you or your parents but it's probably worth cutting them a lot of slack for what they've lived - and who've they've raised.


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## Alsomooh (Jul 12, 2020)

Not quite personally, but my wife and I have been estranged from her mother since 1983. We’ve each seen her once and she was extremely hostile both times. I chalk it up to undiagnosed mental illness. My kids and extended family have never met her. I would entertain an attempt at reconciliation but I doubt my wife would after all these years,


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

morepowder said:


> I have seen both sides of that. If a person wants to talk about something as a means to help process and put it behind them I think it’s good. But if they choose to get sucked into the drama or wallow in it it’s not healthy.
> 
> I think it’s a symptom sometimes of this Facebook generation. It’s too easy to get a bunch of Facebook “friends“ to click like and send hugs on some ”poor me“ post. And that becomes a persons identity if they’re not careful.


Talking leads to gossip as well, which makes things worse. 

It's ok to vent, but we feel the need to broadcast our lives to the world now, which isn't healthy in a lot of ways.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Diablo said:


> I think you have to keep some historical relativism...As uncomfortable as it makes us today, racism was pretty common with previous generations. Some bad stuff happened back in the day, and opinions were formed by pretty much everybody about everybody.
> Heck, growing up in the 70's-80's it seemed like any time you met a friends parents or an older person, the first questions they'd ask is "where are you from?"...and Canada, wasnt an acceptable answer. everybody felt like by knowing your ethnic background, it would reveal something about you. Most of the time, it wasnt harmful/hateful...just, awkward.
> If its any consolation, caucasians werent seen as homogenous back then either....i could go over the litany of ethnic slurs whites had for each other depending where they were from, but it would take hours. Honestly, we made fun of each other far more than of other visible minorities. Probably why we didnt think of ourselves as racist...theres a line you dont cross.


I was going to say something supportive along those lines. Asians can be very traditional and it doesn't seem so bad to want to keep your cultural and blood line pure to marry within your own ethnicity. Me being Native I've seen this my self. I married a white person but there was no lack of support with in my family.
Can you imagine if we were talking about a white family. It would be an entirely different conversation.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

dmc69 said:


> This all came to head when I started dating non-Asians. The amount of bigotry, misinformation, hatred, and general rudeness really woke me up to how bad it was.
> 
> The hard part? They're my parents. Cutting them out isn't as easy as some random on the street.


Between wife 1 and 2 I had a Chinese girlfriend for a while. Aside from the family thing.....she was eventually forced out of the home there were other things some physical. Her and me taking a walk in Vancouver's Chinatown could be dangerous. She was born in Hong Kong and the family moved here when she was about 2. Her folks had a grocery store near where I lived. We ran into a fair bit of trouble when we went into a bar in Prince George while on a bike trip. A long haired white biker with a Chinese girl in a bar with a lot of natives and loggers.


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## dmc69 (Jan 20, 2011)

allthumbs56 said:


> Yeah, I don't think you should consider cutting them out because they think in "older ways" or happen to like Trump. My best suggestion is to know what you don't like about them and make a point of not being that way. Honour and love them. Keep the best parts. Take care in judging them just because they come from a different time.
> 
> For example, my parents didn't exactly care for Germans because of, well - bombs.
> 
> I don't know you or your parents but it's probably worth cutting them a lot of slack for what they've lived - and who've they've raised.


I hear both you and @Diablo. Appreciate the posts - keeps me grounded. I can't accept what they've done or are doing, but there's a lot of food for thought.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Diablo said:


> Honestly, we made fun of each other far more than of other visible minorities. Probably why we didnt think of ourselves as racist...theres a line you dont cross.


My mom's side of the family is very Irish. A few times I've told friends of mine about a time I was in an Irish pub and I said the place was full of Paddies. When I've said that, people have looked at me in disbelief and said I can't say that. Meanwhile, I'm thinking how that's a term of endearment, and not racist at all.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

butterknucket said:


> My mom's side of the family is very Irish. A few times I've told friends of mine about a time I was in an Irish pub and I said the place was full of Paddies. When I've said that, people have looked at me in disbelief and said I can't say that. Meanwhile, I'm thinking how that's a term of endearment, and not racist at all.


My sisters ex was from New Zealand and my sister would often call him a Kiwi. They also had friends that would call him that. He seemed to like the moniker. I have no idea if its considered objectional in any New Zealand circles but I refused to call him that. I don't refer to any other culture in nicknames or potentially derogatory names regardless of whether they're considered objectional or not.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

guitarman2 said:


> My sisters ex was from New Zealand and my sister would often call him a Kiwi. They also had friends that would call him that. He seemed to like the moniker. I have no idea if its considered objectional in any New Zealand circles but I refused to call him that. I don't refer to any other culture in nicknames or potentially derogatory names regardless of whether they're considered objectional or not.


I don't believe it's any more objectionable to call someone from New Zealand a Kiwi than it is to call a Canadian a Canuck. People I've known from Australia always referred to New Zealander's as Kiwis. I don't use that term, but I've also never known anyone from New Zealand. 

Diablo had a point how this goes far deeper than we realize. I've known a lot of people from India, and they tend to slag different ethnicities _from_ India. I don't think it's cruel or racist, it's just them identifying their people. Some people from India don't even consider people from Goa as real Indians. 

I've lived in England and they refer to Americans and Yanks, and people from France as frogs, and no one bats an eye to it. The Irish are the butt ends of all their jokes. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but these things run deep.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

dmc69 said:


> I hear both you and @Diablo. Appreciate the posts - keeps me grounded. I can't accept what they've done or are doing, but there's a lot of food for thought.


It sounds pretty serious but if it isn't criminal or completely amoral or If it's because they won't let you be with someone you love, well then it's on them I think. Otherwise, cutting ties with them, depending on your age, might be more detrimental to you than them.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

guitarman2 said:


> My sisters ex was from New Zealand and my sister would often call him a Kiwi. They also had friends that would call him that. He seemed to like the moniker. I have no idea if its considered objectional in any New Zealand circles but I refused to call him that. I don't refer to any other culture in nicknames or potentially derogatory names regardless of whether they're considered objectional or not.


i knew 2 brothers from new zealand...they had tattoos of kiwi's.
i dont think its offensive...but usually better to avoid names until you have a certain relationship.
as the saying goes, only i can say my kid is ugly....


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I ask because my son just got married to a very controlling and domineering woman. She’s is a horribly toxic person. She will never voice her opinion about us or events but instead sits behind the safety of txting from her phone. They wanted to grace me with the news of starting a family which is great but they don’t even have a pot to piss in, she’s extremely obese, (5’2” 450 lbs) my son in her company has already gained 75 lbs in the last year. I told them that they should get their priorities in order such as finances and their health. Babies cost $ plain and simple. I got the nastiest txt back from her telling me to mind my own business as it was not any of my concern. Their finances were also none of my concern! And forget the health thing.

The disrespect and manipulative ways they have shown my husband and myself are so spiteful and hurtful. He was never like this before this “woman” came into his life. I know for a fact that has been bad mouthing us in front of her because I overheard them while I was inside and they were on the deck. i

We weren’t even invited to their wedding but her parents were online with them and they invited their best friends as witnesses. They didn’t even ask us. We found out after everything was said and done.

His younger brother and he were the best of friends as most brothers are. Now his bride has split them up. My oldest said his younger brother was dead to him. My youngest son always went the extra mile for the older one when ever it was needed.

Because my older son teaches at Rogers we were getting his discount on all the services required. The oldest son went and took everybody off the account because he wanted sole control of everything. So my younger son went to get a new phone on the weekend and found out he is no longer on the acct. He phoned his brother and was told that our whole family is no longer entitled to HIS discount. You know why he did this? Because he was mad at us and thought we were trying to control him so he thought he would pull a fast one in us. We have been on his acct for the last 10 yrs and he decides we’re not worthy anymore. I want to say, fuck him because we never had issues over the last 10 yrs. His new wife’s influence is to blame here!

Ever since this “woman” has come into my sons life he has turned into someone I don’t even know or don’t even want to know!
If I give this a lot of thought I will definitely have a nervous breakdown but is it right to ignore them and just pretend they don’t exist. This affecting my husband’s health. When they leave he will do his blood pressure and it just sky rockets. He gets so angry. I am his fall woman so then he takes it out on me. This is so wrong! I told him that so many times already but it always happens this way. I just can’t be the fall woman anymore. I just can’t.

We have tried to repair things so many damned time’s before and I am getting really weary of all of this crap!

My son is also a pathological liar. Has been most of his adult life.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Honestly, if they’re not asking you to borrow money or bail them out then their finances and family choices really aren’t your concern. Better to just be there for your son, accept his decisions and go along for the ride.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

She sounds like an evil succubus.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

JBFairthorne said:


> Honestly, if they’re not asking you to borrow money or bail them out then their finances and family choices really aren’t your concern. Better to just be there for your son, accept his decisions and go along for the ride.


I was gonna post something like this but deleted it for fear of getting yelled at. but seriously, brace yourself.

sounds like it's time to let him go, he's old enough to make those decisions for himself. and my guess is Lola isn't the easiest person to get along with judging by the years of confrontations described in her posts. wife-in-law is gonna have a bad day and should probably assert dominance early if she wants to last


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Is it even possible to be 5’2” and weigh a quarter ton.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Pretty complicated stuff. Completely cutting off relationships is the same extreme as getting completely trampled on or abused but just the opposite side.

Any relationship is about boundaries no matter the type of relationship or relation to the other party.

Everyone has a choice to set and accept/respect boundaries in a relationship. Majority of the time a relationship can only be and remain toxic by your own choosing.

If you are in a toxic relationship it’s is only because you choose to accept disrespect of or have not firmly set the boundaries you need to participate in a healthy relationship. It is possible to have relationships even w the most “toxic” of people, but that is a nasty and generalizing word. Most people who would be described as toxic simply do not know how to have a proper healthy relationship and most often because they were never shown or taught during the experience building years of their childhood. The key is recognizing that if your in a toxic relationship it’s is no ones fault but your own, and YOU are responsible for it have the ability to change it.

Family dysfunction is multi-generational more often than not and a tough cycle to break. Self evaluation is the key to breaking the pattern of dysfunction and choosing to make good decisions and have firm boundaries designed to promote emotional well being for yourself are key to escaping the pattern. 

I’ve managed to have relationships with all of my family despite years of much dysfunction through the family tree. Wasn’t always so and there were many periods of estrangement. It’s hard and takes a long time to figure through and decide what’s important. Sometimes the relationship just can’t be it’s potential and that’s a sad reality for most to accept.

Sorry for the poorly worded rant. Oh and Mhammer was bang on, that was a great comment.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

JBFairthorne said:


> Honestly, if they’re not asking you to borrow money or bail them out then their finances and family choices really aren’t your concern. Better to just be there for your son, accept his decisions and go along for the ride.


so when your son gets married and your are not invited to the wedding but his wife’s parents were you just go along with it?


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## morepowder (Apr 30, 2020)

Not to discount the rest for a second, but if Rogers family coverage is a concern, it’s not that bad. That shouldn’t even be on the radar.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Lola said:


> so when your son gets married and your are not invited to the wedding but his wife’s parents were you just go along with it?


I had an aunt that got married, invited my grandparents, my dad's sister and her husband, but none of us got invited. 

They didn't even tell us.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Lola said:


> so when your son gets married and your are not invited to the wedding but his wife’s parents were you just go along with it?


I know it was directed by someone else but I would say yes he’s 100% right. You can be sad and upset and angry about it and deal with those emotions in a healthy manner and still have understanding and support your son the best you can while maintaining your own healthy boundaries. That’s a liberating place to be emotionally.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Wardo said:


> Is it even possible to be 5’2” and weigh a quarter ton.


She probably wouldn't be able to walk.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

vadsy said:


> I was gonna post something like this but deleted it for fear of getting yelled at. but seriously, brace yourself.
> 
> sounds like it's time to let him go, he's old enough to make those decisions for himself. and my guess is Lola isn't the easiest person to get along with judging by the years of confrontations described in her posts. wife-in-law is gonna have a bad day and should probably assert dominance early if she wants to last


How can you make a informed opinion about me because you don’t even know me. I am NOT the shit disturber you make me out to be because YOU SIR have had an attitude towards me since day 1!
Thank god for the ignore list. Your name now graces it!!


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

tdotrob said:


> I know it was directed by someone else but I would say yes he’s 100% right. You can be sad and upset and angry about it and deal with those emotions in a healthy manner and still have understanding and support your son the best you can while maintaining your own healthy boundaries. That’s a liberating place to be emotionally.


No I can’t because he’s verbally and emotionally abusive. That’s toxicity for you.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Lola said:


> No I can’t because he’s verbally and emotionally abusive. That’s toxicity for you.


That’s a pretty cut and dry way to look at it. I sincerely hope that things change for you and your family


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> Honestly, if they’re not asking you to borrow money or bail them out then their finances and family choices really aren’t your concern. Better to just be there for your son, accept his decisions and go along for the ride.


I was going to post something like this but you summed it up pretty well. 
Just to add this doesn't sound like a "cut him out of my life" situation but it does sound like a "back out of the picture" type action is necessary. Just back off and let him play it out. Its a situation you will never win. The more you try the more you will be the evil one in his eyes. I'm willing to bet eventually she'll turn her evil ways on him and he'll be out of there wondering why you didn't tell him sooner how evil she was.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

The thing we always forget is, nobody “makes” anyone be this way.
if the relationship with the son has deteriorated, that’s between you and your son. He’s a big boy who can stand up for himself/his family. If he doesn’t, then that says it all. The wife is merely a catalyst.

its always easier to blame the outsider, but it doesn’t solve anything.
kind of like when you see someone catch their partner cheating and they seem madder at the 3rd party, not their cheating spouse. Never made sense to me.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Lola said:


> so when your son gets married and your are not invited to the wedding but his wife’s parents were you just go along with it?


I’m not sure what this has to do with whether or not your adult son’s finances are you business.

If I wasn’t invited? Of course I would just go along with that. What else would I do? Crash the wedding?

Besides, if I wasn’t invited there would have definitely been prior incidents that precipitated me not being invited...and more than likely I would know exactly what they were.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lola said:


> No I can’t because he’s verbally and emotionally abusive. That’s toxicity for you.


My son treats his mother like that. He doesn't treat me like that because I won't take it. I tell my wife all the time not to take it. If he becomes verbally and\or emotionally abusive to you thats when you put your foot down and tell him you're not there to be his whipping post. Then you back off don't call him don't have contact with him. Let him make the first move and tell him you'd appreciate an apology when he does. I know its easier said than done but you have to try and pry your self away from it emotionally as much as possible so that it doesn't ruin your quality of life.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Wardo said:


> Is it even possible to be 5’2” and weigh a quarter ton.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Lola said:


> so when your son gets married and your are not invited to the wedding but his wife’s parents were you just go along with it?


Not sure what else you can do?
getting angry sure won’t bring you closer.

when I had problems with my in-laws after the birth of my daughter, I stated the obvious...our family isn’t a democracy and if they don’t like it, well...lots of kids grow up without seeing their grandparents...harsh sounding, I know, but it’s reality. 
When your kids grow up, they are holding all the cards, you have no leverage over them anymore....so you may have to learn to communicate differently with them, or play a smaller role in their lives.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Everyone has their lines they don't want crossed. Allowing it is only giving permission to do so again. That is a personal decision each person has to make on their own. Myself, I give fair warning and there is not much tolerance after that. I like my life too much to tolerate someone fucking me around. Continuing the crossing of boundaries gets you banishment until you can show me the respect I derserve....that anyone deserves. Again, that's a personal judgement call. If you don't take care of yourself, no one is going to do it for you.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

It's hard to watch people make huge life altering mistakes and not be able to change their trajectory. 

Have lunch with just the son. Let him know what you think will happen, and how you love him and it's hard to watch his long term slow motion train wreck.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

player99 said:


> It's hard to watch people make huge life altering mistakes and not be able to change their trajectory.
> 
> Have lunch with just the son. Let him know what you think will happen, and how you love him and it's hard to watch his long term slow motion train wreck.


He’s not allowed out by himself, his wife accompanies him everywhere. I asked him once to come and watch me play a song that I was learning. He said he couldn’t leave her side because that would cause her a great deal of anxiety. They come as a pair.
My husband asked him to come by himself a few weeks ago they needed to talk and there was the girlfriend at the time. It’s so she can control everything. I really dislike her intensely!!


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Can you guys go out together, all 4 of you, then you drag her off to go shopping and he gets the straight goods from dad?


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

player99 said:


> Can you guys go out together, then you drag her off to go shopping and he gets the straight goods from dad?


No because she will question everything. Why are the splitting us up, I need to be with my husband, what are they talking about behind my back and the list goes on! It’s happened before when his brother wanted to take him out for his birthday, just the guys. She said he couldn’t go unless she went with him. That was a big red flag right there.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> My mom's side of the family is very Irish. A few times I've told friends of mine about a time I was in an Irish pub and I said the place was full of Paddies. When I've said that, people have looked at me in disbelief and said I can't say that. Meanwhile, I'm thinking how that's a term of endearment, and not racist at all.


All depends if you're Orange or Green or Scots Irish. Being part Scot Irish the word Paddy is not a term of endearment...same as when my Scots Irish grand mother would call my English grand mother Sassenach. You might as well call an Orangeman catholic while in a pub in Derry.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> All depends if you're Orange or Green or Scots Irish. Being part Scot Irish the word Paddy is not a term of endearment...same as when my Scots Irish grand mother would call my English grand mother Sassenach. You might as well call an Orangeman catholic while in a pub in Derry.


I think you’re in the wrong thread!! Lol


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> My sisters ex was from New Zealand and my sister would often call him a Kiwi. They also had friends that would call him that. He seemed to like the moniker. I have no idea if its considered objectional in any New Zealand circles but I refused to call him that. I don't refer to any other culture in nicknames or potentially derogatory names regardless of whether they're considered objectional or not.


Call a Moari a Kiwi and see what happens.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> All depends if you're Orange or Green or Scots Irish. Being part Scot Irish the word Paddy is not a term of endearment...same as when my Scots Irish grand mother would call my English grand mother Sassenach. You might as well call an Orangeman catholic while in a pub in Derry.


Ireland seems to be a messed up place. I went to an Irish bar in Toronto with a friend who’s from southern ireland and apparently everyone else in the bar was from there too so all these little fuckers are staring at me and I asked him what the hell this is about and he says well you‘re 6’4” and you look like a Northern Irish cop so I said well fuck let’s get the hell out of here...lol


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> All depends if you're Orange or Green or Scots Irish. Being part Scot Irish the word Paddy is not a term of endearment...same as when my Scots Irish grand mother would call my English grand mother Sassenach. You might as well call an Orangeman catholic while in a pub in Derry.


Irish Catholic here.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Wardo said:


> Ireland seems to be a messed up place. I went to an Irish bar in Toronto with a friend who’s from southern ireland and apparently everyone else in the bar was from there too so all these little fuckers are staring at me and I asked him what the hell this is about and he says well you‘re 6’4” and you look like a Northern Irish cop so I said well fuck let’s get the hell out of here...lol


What bar was that?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> Is it even possible to be 5’2” and weigh a quarter ton.


At her biggest mom was 5'2 1/2" and weighed around 330 or so lbs. so it probably is.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> What bar was that?


Can’t remember; it’s on the Queensway long before you get to the 427 but well past the river.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Lola said:


> I think you’re in the wrong thread!! Lol


Nah, just the same as talking about Kiwis and Canucks and Yanks etc.. Plus when my Canadian grandmother married my English Grandfather things got a little toxic. My great grandmother sent my grand mother a letter saying "Welcome to the family" and a few other words. When we found the letter in 2003 when my mom died there was still ice on the envelope. The letter was written in the summer of 1920. Not too sure if grandma being Scots Irish was the cause or if the fact that mom was a sooner was the cause.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> Ireland seems to be a messed up place. I went to an Irish bar in Toronto with a friend who’s from southern ireland and apparently everyone else in the bar was from there too so all these little fuckers are staring at me and I asked him what the hell this is about and he says well you‘re 6’4” and you look like a Northern Irish cop so I said well fuck let’s get the hell out of here...lol


Gotta watch those little green suckers.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> Irish Catholic here.


And being strictly neutral I bashed everyone in sight… lol


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> Irish Catholic here.


A Sassenach Paddy. Where's your pot of gold?


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Electraglide said:


> Gotta watch those little green suckers.


Friend of mine was a prison guard; he said when there’s more than one always hit the little guy first because the taller ones will hesitate.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> A Sassenach Paddy. Where's your pot of gold?


I've never heard Sassenach before.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> I've never heard Sassenach before.


It's an endearing Scottish word for the English but occasional is used for others, like when the English brought Orange Irish troops to move Scotts to Ireland and then to North America. It's also used by Highlanders when refering to Lowlanders. The Irish at times use the same word for the same purpose. Another definition would be Outlander.


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## TheYanChamp (Mar 6, 2009)

dmc69 said:


> I haven't done it quite yet but I have often considered it. My parents are extremely toxic to me and my brother's life. Controlling, manipulative, dishonest... the list goes on. The worst is they claim to be Christians and are religious. However, they are some of the most racist people I know. If anything, they are the worst representation of Christians and are probably more aligned with hardcore Southern Baptists or even the KKK, if the KKK had Asian people in it. As a Christian, I am ashamed of them and how poorly they reflect upon our community by their actions. A digression, but as an Asian, I am ashamed they are such staunch Trump supporters and of his rhetoric.
> 
> This all came to head when I started dating non-Asians. The amount of bigotry, misinformation, hatred, and general rudeness really woke me up to how bad it was.
> 
> The hard part? They're my parents. Cutting them out isn't as easy as some random on the street.



Call them out, they deny deflect and blame sky ferries for their traditions. We have never been happier since covid has reduced our weekly/byweekly feast of the same exact food every time, at the same restaurant, with their stupid comments and superstitions. Covid is a blessing when adopted to an asian family.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

JBFairthorne said:


> I’m not sure what this has to do with whether or not your adult son’s finances are you business.
> 
> If I wasn’t invited? Of course I would just go along with that. What else would I do? Crash the wedding?
> 
> Besides, if I wasn’t invited there would have definitely been prior incidents that precipitated me not being invited...and more than likely I would know exactly what they were.


So your son doesn't invite you to his wedding and after that it's just business as usual for you? You carry on with the relationship as though that didn't happen?

Yeah no.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Guncho said:


> So your son doesn't invite you to his wedding and after that it's just business as usual for you? You carry on with the relationship as though that didn't happen?
> 
> Yeah no.


You can see where I am coming from where as the op has no clue! Thx for your input Guncho. I really appreciate it.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Your son married a bitch and there's not much you can do about it. I wouldn't cut him out of my life but he'd be getting the cold shoulder for the foreseeable future and better not be asking me for any favours or money.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

guitarman2 said:


> I was going to post something like this but you summed it up pretty well.
> Just to add this doesn't sound like a "cut him out of my life" situation but it does sound like a "back out of the picture" type action is necessary. Just back off and let him play it out. Its a situation you will never win. The more you try the more you will be the evil one in his eyes. I'm willing to bet eventually she'll turn her evil ways on him and he'll be out of there wondering why you didn't tell him sooner how evil she was.


My husband already said that there marriage won’t last. My oldest son hates being told what to do, how to act, who he can socialize with etc. He will go along with it for only so long(after the honeymoon phase is over) and I can see big problems in the horizon for him and his new wife.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Guncho said:


> So your son doesn't invite you to his wedding and after that it's just business as usual for you? You carry on with the relationship as though that didn't happen?
> 
> Yeah no.


My son and his girlfriend went to Vegas with a friend of his and when they got there, did the Vegas wedding thing.....and then told the various families. As far as I know no one in the families had any clue that they were going to get married. For them it saved a lot of hassel. I'd only met the bride a couple of times, didn't meet the brides mother until they had a reception a year later. I had/have no problem with that and neither did my ex. There was more of a problem when I showed up at the reception with my third wife, both of us on our bikes.....I don't think the brides parents were ready for that. A couple of years later they got divorced and i helped my son thru that. Ironically my ex helped his wife thru her part. Not that my son and his mom had any problems just he moved to where I was and got a new job. I guess it boils down to it's there lives, they're going to live them the way they want.


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## Johnny Spune (Sep 15, 2014)

Lola said:


> Have you ever had to cut out someone who’s toxic in your family?


Yes. 
But I think they think they cut me out. But I cut them out first


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

You cant change anybody but yourself, and you cant force someone to love you in the way that you may want.
But you can decide what you wont tolerate anymore, and thats completely fair.
Just dont do it to "send a message" or some other act of manipulation, because I'll bet he can last longer without you than vice versa.
Some guys really gravitate to women that do all their thinking for them, for some reason....I dunno, maybe it makes their life simpler to give away all their control to someone else.


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## player99 (Sep 5, 2019)

Lola said:


> My husband already said that there marriage won’t last. My oldest son hates being told what to do, how to act, who he can socialize with etc. He will go along with it for only so long(after the honeymoon phase is over) and I can see big problems in the horizon for him and his new wife.


Once she has a kid or two, he's on the hook financially for a long time. You need to have him neutered. For his own good.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Diablo said:


> You cant change anybody but yourself, and you cant force someone to love you in the way that you may want.
> But you can decide what you wont tolerate anymore, and thats completely fair.
> Just dont do it to "send a message" or some other act of manipulation, because I'll bet he can last longer without you than vice versa.
> Some guys really gravitate to women that do all their thinking for them, for some reason....I dunno, maybe it makes their life simpler to give away all their control to someone else.


I've heard that some guys marry a person who reminds them of their mother and some a person who's completely opposite. Could be that her being around him all the time makes him feel wanted. You never know. Sometimes the best thing is to cut the cords and burn a bridge or two. You'll survive and they'll survive....and sometime down the road you might get a phone call.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

player99 said:


> Once she has a kid or two, he's on the hook financially for a long time. You need to have him neutered. For his own good.


Cheerful sob aren't you. You're not on the hook raising a kid at any time, whether it's yours or someone elses. When I got divorced from my ex the house got sold and I paid off the child support in one lump sum. Even tho I didn't have to I helped out after that and also helped with the lady I moved in with's kid. 
Plus, depending on who has the better lawyer you might not be on the hook as you put it.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> My son and his girlfriend went to Vegas with a friend of his and when they got there, did the Vegas wedding thing.....and then told the various families. As far as I know no one in the families had any clue that they were going to get married. For them it saved a lot of hassel. I'd only met the bride a couple of times, didn't meet the brides mother until they had a reception a year later. I had/have no problem with that and neither did my ex. There was more of a problem when I showed up at the reception with my third wife, both of us on our bikes.....I don't think the brides parents were ready for that. A couple of years later they got divorced and i helped my son thru that. Ironically my ex helped his wife thru her part. Not that my son and his mom had any problems just he moved to where I was and got a new job. I guess it boils down to it's there lives, they're going to live them the way they want.


I am good with that but their is no need for your own son to become extremely disrespectful and belligerent to his own parents. That I can’t and won’t tolerate. NO SIR!

and what bothers us a lot too is the fact that he’s a pathological liar. We can’t believe anything that he says.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Guncho said:


> So your son doesn't invite you to his wedding and after that it's just business as usual for you? You carry on with the relationship as though that didn't happen?
> 
> Yeah no.


There are any number of things I might do to attempt to repair the relationship after the wedding incident. I just never specified what they were. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though. Realistically though, I probably wouldn’t be in that position in the first place. 



Lola said:


> My husband already said that there marriage won’t last. My oldest son hates being told what to do, how to act, who he can socialize with etc. He will go along with it for only so long(after the honeymoon phase is over) and I can see big problems in the horizon for him and his new wife.


Yet you tried to tell him what to do regarding his financial and family planning decisions. Maybe he married someone very similar, in his eyes, to Mom.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> My son and his girlfriend went to Vegas with a friend of his and when they got there, did the Vegas wedding thing.....and then told the various families. As far as I know no one in the families had any clue that they were going to get married. For them it saved a lot of hassel. I'd only met the bride a couple of times, didn't meet the brides mother until they had a reception a year later. I had/have no problem with that and neither did my ex. There was more of a problem when I showed up at the reception with my third wife, both of us on our bikes.....I don't think the brides parents were ready for that. A couple of years later they got divorced and i helped my son thru that. Ironically my ex helped his wife thru her part. Not that my son and his mom had any problems just he moved to where I was and got a new job. I guess it boils down to it's there lives, they're going to live them the way they want.


Totally different situation. In this case Lola's son had a normal wedding. They didn't elope.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> Cheerful sob aren't you. You're not on the hook raising a kid at any time, whether it's yours or someone elses. When I got divorced from my ex the house got sold and I paid off the child support in one lump sum. Even tho I didn't have to I helped out after that and also helped with the lady I moved in with's kid.
> Plus, depending on who has the better lawyer you might not be on the hook as you put it.


I'm no legal expert, but sounds like you got lucky there. All the splits I've seen personally involved the father paying child support and spousal, and remained on the hook paying for children well into their mid twenties if they did post-secondary education. God help you if they get a PHD.

If the father didn't agree or comply, his wages would be garnished.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

JBFairthorne said:


> There are any number of things I might do to attempt to repair the relationship after the wedding incident. I just never specified what they were. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though. Realistically though, I probably wouldn’t be in that position in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet you tried to tell him what to do regarding his financial and family planning decisions. Maybe he married someone very similar, in his eyes, to Mom.


So you wouldn’t be concerned about your adult child’s capability of raising a child in this environment? Ya, I can see her being a great mom at 400 lbs plus. Obese parents are the best, aren’t they? They don’t have a financial pot to piss in. Before this BS started to happen I gave them $500 cash(which hubby has no knowledge of) for gas and some bills. And then they turn around and talk to us in the most In appropriate
manner. I have gone above and beyond mentally and financially especially for my son. And yes, he never asked us to but most parents what do what their capable of and more for their children.

We gave them a really good start with a huge cash lump sum and paid for my sons brand new GMC Terrain vehicle and his insurance for a year. So that they would have less of a financial burden. Enough is enough.

and.... I can see you can predict the future? ! How do you know you will never be in this position? I never thought I would either and now I am.




Another shot JB. Too bad you missed the target!

your always out to try and pick a fight with me in your underhanded passive aggressive ways. Been here for 6 yrs and it’s still the same BS! Just look at the detail of your posts. Your just dying to pick a scab and see me bleed. I see when you answered back Guncho’s post that you didn’t go in to an explanation of how you would repair things after the wedding. Let’s hear it.

BTW I Made suggestions to my son as to what to do but your words “I told him what to do. Your subtleties aren’t lost on me. “He married someone similar to his mom because I made suggestion and told him? GMAFB! Now your a family counsellor/psychologist?!


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Lola said:


> Enough is enough.


Well, there's the answer.
As suggested earlier, step back, let him live the life that he chose.
Someday, he may come back asking for more. Remind of everything that you've already done to help out, yet was cut out of his life anyway.
'Sorry. If we're no longer family to you in relationship, then we're no longer family financially either'.
Cutting ties with your baby is very hard. However, it will eventually build his character more so to let him learn this life lesson on his own.

My opinion of course.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lola said:


> So you wouldn’t be concerned about your adult child’s capability of raising a child in this environment? Ya, I can see her being a great mom at 400 lbs plus. Obese parents are the best, aren’t they? They don’t have a financial pot to piss in. Before this BS started to happen I gave them $500 cash(which hubby has no knowledge of) for gas and some bills. And then they turn around and talk to us in the most In appropriate
> manner. I have gone financially above and beyond especially for my son. And yes, he never asked us to but most parents what do what their capable of and more for their children.
> 
> We gave them a really good start with a huge cash lump sum and paid for my sons brand new GMC Terrain vehicle and his insurance for a year. So that they would have less of a financial burden. Enough is enough.
> ...



I don't want to pile on here and I will comment with the utmost respect but now I've heard you a few times make disparaging remarks related to her weight. And you seem to be focused on how they don't have a pot to piss in. I have a feeling that maybe some of this bitterness you feel puts up a barrier between you and the daughter-in-law.
When I married my wife I was an ex con, road musician that didn't even have a gig when we got married. My wife was a ministers daughter with a lovely respectable family. In the looks department I punched way above my category as my wife could have been a model. Looking back in retrospect I can't imagine one good reason her parents would have been thrilled at having me for a son in law. But if they resented me I never knew it. They treated me lovingly, respectfully and never once did we have harsh words. I had the greatest in-laws I could have ever wanted. In the first few years they took us out to dinners regularly, gave us money for for food and fixed our car a few times. Even gave us money for a tax bill one year after we had a mistake in our tax returns and received too much money.
For my self the support we had made me want to be a better man. Here I am 34 years later still married to the same woman. Yes we've had our share of ups and downs through out and still do. The one thing I will always appreciate is the In-laws I was blessed with.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> I'm no legal expert, but sounds like you got lucky there. All the splits I've seen personally involved the father paying child support and spousal, and remained on the hook paying for children well into their mid twenties if did post-secondary education. God help you if they get a PHD.
> 
> If the father didn't agree or comply, his wages would be garnished.


Some times yes and sometimes no. My first divorice my ex got the house, the car and the cat. When the car got totaled I got the money. My second one was until my son was 18 and I got a percentage of the house when it was sold which paid off child support. The third one my ex gets the house and when it gets sold I get half. No spouseal in any of them. I know a few guys who got custody, child support and spousal and others who got nailed to the cross which includes paying for both lawyers. It was basically the same for both the older brother and younger brother tho my younger brother had to spend every night for 3 years at house on the acreage or his ex would have got the house. Child support for the two of them was about the same as for me.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Guncho said:


> Totally different situation. In this case Lola's son had a normal wedding. They didn't elope.


Basically the same just neither family being told.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

Electraglide said:


> Basically the same just neither family being told.


If you think not being invited to your son's wedding is the same as not being invited to them eloping then I don't know what to tell you.

People don't usually tell anyone they are eloping. That is the whole point of eloping.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Lola said:


> I am good with that but their is no need for your own son to become extremely disrespectful and belligerent to his own parents. That I can’t and won’t tolerate. NO SIR!
> 
> and what bothers us a lot too is the fact that he’s a pathological liar. We can’t believe anything that he says.


The liar thing has probably been going on for most of his life. Same possibly with your son being disrespectful and belligerent towards his parents. From what I understand that doesn't happen over night also. If you can't and won't tolerate it then as others have said it's probably time to either have a confrontation or cut the cord.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

butterknucket said:


> I'm no legal expert, but sounds like you got lucky there. All the splits I've seen personally involved the father paying child support and spousal, and remained on the hook paying for children well into their mid twenties if they did post-secondary education. God help you if they get a PHD.
> 
> If the father didn't agree or comply, his wages would be garnished.


Yeah, that would be pretty much the norm; I’ve seen them paying for postgraduate studies as well. Although I don’t know why people always seem to be ragging on PhD’s because post hole digger is a pretty good occupation it’s healthy physical work, you’re outside all the time etc - I don’t get it although I don’t understand why they have to go to school so long for that.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Seems to me if you overshare a personal issue on an internet forum, you might expect some responses that are not to your liking. Comes with the territory.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Lola said:


> So you wouldn’t be concerned about your adult child’s capability of raising a child in this environment? Ya, I can see her being a great mom at 400 lbs plus. Obese parents are the best, aren’t they?


What the parents weigh has nothing to do with their capability to raise children. There are plenty of reasons, like thyroid, for their weight problems. My mom had that problem, my ex step daughter had that problem and there's nothing the matter with the way their kids turned out. The best.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

BlueRocker said:


> Seems to me if you overshare a personal issue on an internet forum, you might expect some responses that are not to your liking. Comes with the territory.


Nah! You don’t know what is truly going on!


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Electraglide said:


> What the parents weigh has nothing to do with their capability to raise children. There are plenty of reasons, like thyroid, for their weight problems. My mom had that problem, my ex step daughter had that problem and there's nothing the matter with the way their kids turned out. The best.


Ya it does! She can’t even climb the 4 stairs to our front door without two men on either sides if her. Do you honestly see her going for a walk with a child or going to the park for some fresh air? Great life for a child!


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

Lola said:


> Ya it does! She is eating herself to death and taking my son along for the ride! She can’t even climb the 4 stairs to our front door without two men on either sides if her. Do you honestly see her going for a walk with a child or going to the park for some fresh air? Great life for a child!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> I don't want to pile on here and I will comment with the utmost respect but now I've heard you a few times make disparaging remarks related to her weight. And you seem to be focused on how they don't have a pot to piss in. I have a feeling that maybe some of this bitterness you feel puts up a barrier between you and the daughter-in-law.
> When I married my wife I was an ex con, road musician that didn't even have a gig when we got married. My wife was a ministers daughter with a lovely respectable family. In the looks department I punched way above my category as my wife could have been a model. Looking back in retrospect I can't imagine one good reason her parents would have been thrilled at having me for a son in law. But if they resented me I never knew it. They treated me lovingly, respectfully and never once did we have harsh words. I had the greatest in-laws I could have ever wanted. In the first few years they took us out to dinners regularly, gave us money for for food and fixed our car a few times. Even gave us money for a tax bill one year after we had a mistake in our tax returns and received too much money.
> For my self the support we had made me want to be a better man. Here I am 34 years later still married to the same woman. Yes we've had our share of ups and downs through out and still do. The one thing I will always appreciate is the In-laws I was blessed with.


Sounds like more than one friend of mine. Quite a few rode patch and one or two still do....some are 'retired' and some the patch got absorbed. Most started out with nothing and raised great families.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Guncho said:


> If you think not being invited to your son's wedding is the same as not being invited to them eloping then I don't know what to tell you.
> 
> People don't usually tell anyone they are eloping. That is the whole point of eloping.


Some people handle things better I guess. There are plenty of reasons why you elope including someones parents not likeing/getting along with someones choice of partners and you just don't want to put up with the BS that that causes.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I think theres likely a lot of complicated history here that none of us will ever know, so the best we can do is offer a place to vent.


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## Wardo (Feb 5, 2010)

Interesting how the advertising algorithms work on the new board; there’s one in this thread for psychiatric counselling by teleconference and another advertising engine hoists at Princess Auto for $300.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

poor new wife with Lola as a mom in law. That’s a no win. Doesn’t like her so goes online and smashes her to a bunch of strangers. Weight seems to be going up as the thread goes on with every post. Poor girl is probably a nice person with a butt and a Rogers discount Lola is jealous of


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Lola said:


> Ya it does! She can’t even climb the 4 stairs to our front door without two men on either sides if her. Do you honestly see her going for a walk with a child or going to the park for some fresh air? Great life for a child!


Why not. It's not that much different than being in a wheel chair for any reason or paralyzed or being mentally challenged. My nephew/niece (he's going thru a sex change) broke his back years ago, has spent about half his life in a wheelchair. He can't climb any stairs.....if there were two men on either side of him they'd be marrying him. Hasn't affected his 3 kids, all of whom were born long after his accident. They have no problem with it. They even have fun pushing him around.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wardo said:


> Interesting how the advertising algorithms work on the new board; there’s one in this thread for psychiatric counselling by teleconference and another advertising engine hoists at Princess Auto for $300.


My son needs one of those rolling stages he can lie on and work on the engine of his truck. Maybe I'll check and see if they still have any. The engine hoist can be converted to do this for a lot less than a couple of grand.


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

vadsy said:


> poor new wife with Lola as a mom in law. That’s a no win. Doesn’t like her so goes online and smashes her to a bunch of strangers. Weight seems to be going up as the thread goes on with every post. Poor girl is probably a nice person with a butt and a Rogers discount Lola is jealous of


Well in your case I won’t argue with your uninformed imbecilic stupidity.

Ya, it wouldn’t be fair to get into a disagreement with person of your IQ level!


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Lola said:


> Ya, it wouldn’t be fair to get into a disagreement with person of your IQ level!


probably best you don't


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

Lola I don't know you from adam but did you not raise him as best as you could as a parent its time for you to let that bird fly and make the mistakes he is going to make. 
Myself I think its wrong to just invite him to your home they come as a pair and if you cannot accept her well how is that going to make things easy or good for your boy and all that does it create a difficult situation for him.
Sometimes as parents we want to keep protecting our children but there does come a time that you have to stop and just do the best you can and accept the reality of what it is.
And please stop being angry its their lives and you have lived yours and maybe your folks were not always happy about your decisions but they were yours to make just as it is his to make.
I say this with understanding that its not easy. But do remember that life is not suppose to be easy its suppose to be life and we live it as best as each of us can.


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

vadsy said:


> poor new wife with Lola as a mom in law. That’s a no win. Doesn’t like her so goes online and smashes her to a bunch of strangers. Weight seems to be going up as the thread goes on with every post. Poor girl is probably a nice person with a butt and a Rogers discount Lola is jealous of


Maybe leave this kind of personal attack in the Political Forum?


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

allthumbs56 said:


> Maybe leave this kind of personal attack in the Political Forum?


youre probably right. I'll let Lola continue to bad-mouth her son new daughter-in-law and shit on anyone who disagrees


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

Call him on his birthday but otherwise stay out of their lives? 
And no more money? 

My boys are teenagers, and I'd be heart broken if one of them hooked up with a bitch like you describe, overweight or not. 
One has already said when he leaves home he's never coming back, mostly because we shut the internet off at midnight on school days. I'm thinking he might get over that, but at the same time, I left home and by the time I was in my mid 20s tried my best to visit as little as possible. Eternally being treated like a kid drove me nuts.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

vadsy said:


> youre probably right. I'll let Lola continue to bad-mouth her son new daughter-in-law and shit on anyone who disagrees



You don't help matters by being nasty which is really all you did. Theres a much more tactful way of delivering criticism. From past posts I get thats not your forte.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> You don't help matters by being nasty which is really all you did. Theres a much more tactful way of delivering criticism. From past posts I get thats not your forte.


you’re absolutely right. but we’re over 100 posts in and all Lola seems to want to do is trash her family and find others who agree with her. Those that offer sound advice get told off. I can probably skip ahead here and just call it like I see it, it’s meangirl behavior and someone needs to call it out.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

vadsy said:


> you’re absolutely right. but we’re over 100 posts in and all Lola seems to want to do is trash her family and find others who agree with her. Those that offer sound advice get told off. I can probably skip ahead here and just call it like I see it, it’s meangirl behavior and someone needs to call it out.


one thing i learned years ago, when women talk, its often just to vent and get sympathy...men are more likely to want to offer advice, solutions, insight etc....but thats often not what women really want. so, we get into the disconnect we have here...people just not reading the room, all around.
as short tempered and thin skinned as she can appear, i dont recall her actually asking for advice or analysis here. we just assumed it.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

vadsy said:


> you’re absolutely right. but we’re over 100 posts in and all Lola seems to want to do is trash her family and find others who agree with her. Those that offer sound advice get told off. I can probably skip ahead here and just call it like I see it, it’s meangirl behavior and someone needs to call it out.



I don't agree with her trashing and said so. I don't think she told me off unless I missed it. If I'm giving this type of advice on the net based on my own experiences I try to give it like I'm a friend sitting down with a cup of coffee and a sympathetic ear. I think alot of this is just a neutral place to vent for her. 
Would you speak to a friend like that under similar circumstances? Well maybe you don't consider someone like Lola a person you'd be a friend to but then I'd have to assume your presence in this thread is just to troll.


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## Guncho (Jun 16, 2015)

This thread is closed for commenting. (or it should be)


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

Lola said:


> Have you ever had to cut out someone who’s toxic in your family?


My brother and every other biological family member besides my sister and first cousin. The mental health issues are unreal. And no one will get help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jim Wellington (Sep 3, 2017)

vadsy said:


> you’re absolutely right. but we’re over 100 posts in and all Lola seems to want to do is trash her family and find others who agree with her. Those that offer sound advice get told off. I can probably skip ahead here and just call it like I see it, it’s meangirl behavior and someone needs to call it out.


Hey Vadsy,

I think I see this the way you see it....but...why does someone need to call it out when it`s so common place, that only the "fringe" like you, or myself notice? Let them eat each other. It`s their level of consciousness, and that won`t change. I understand Lola`s complaint and it is well founded, but airing family business on a public forum full of strangers screams drama, and I see it as a step below the shit storms that occupy the Political Pundit. But that`s just me, we all have different boundries when airing our shit in public. I guess i`m not sure if you are "teaching or taunting" I suppose.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

guitarman2 said:


> I don't agree with her trashing and said so. I don't think she told me off unless I missed it. If I'm giving this type of advice on the net based on my own experiences I try to give it like I'm a friend sitting down with a cup of coffee and a sympathetic ear. I think alot of this is just a neutral place to vent for her.
> Would you speak to a friend like that under similar circumstances? Well maybe you don't consider someone like Lola a person you'd be a friend to but then I'd have to assume your presence in this thread is just to troll.


I do troll but this isn’t the thread for that, not intentionally anyway. I can’t keep reading the drama without eventually getting involved, it’s like I’m being called. This thread wasn’t about solving life around a cup of coffee, it was about bitching when someone isn’t around to defend themselves.


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Diablo said:


> one thing i learned years ago, when women talk, its often just to vent and get sympathy...men are more likely to want to offer advice, solutions, insight etc....but thats often not what women really want. so, we get into the disconnect we have here...people just not reading the room, all around.
> as short tempered and thin skinned as she can appear, i dont recall her actually asking for advice or analysis here. we just assumed it.


The thread starts with a question asking for answers. I took that to mean looking for others to relay their experience which many have done and the experience of the past would no doubt include outcomes and advice. 

I read it as an exactly an invitation or solicitation for related information on the topic.


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## Chitmo (Sep 2, 2013)

Lola said:


> I ask because my son just got married to a very controlling and domineering woman. She’s is a horribly toxic person. She will never voice her opinion about us or events but instead sits behind the safety of txting from her phone. They wanted to grace me with the news of starting a family which is great but they don’t even have a pot to piss in, she’s extremely obese, (5’2” 450 lbs) my son in her company has already gained 75 lbs in the last year. I told them that they should get their priorities in order such as finances and their health. Babies cost $ plain and simple. I got the nastiest txt back from her telling me to mind my own business as it was not any of my concern. Their finances were also none of my concern! And forget the health thing.
> 
> The disrespect and manipulative ways they have shown my husband and myself are so spiteful and hurtful. He was never like this before this “woman” came into his life. I know for a fact that has been bad mouthing us in front of her because I overheard them while I was inside and they were on the deck. i
> 
> ...


Sounds like the lot of you need professional help. You sound like a child complaining about him acting like a child. Go see a profession, sort out your issues before trying to sort someone else out.


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

Sounds like we're done here.


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