# How much is a COA worth when buying used?



## vbbish (Nov 3, 2007)

Hey gang,

Im considering a couple of used guitars on the market right now. Both very similar. Couple years apart. Clean, original cases etc.

One of them has its COA. The other does not.

The one without is a fair bit cheaper.

Would love to get some feedback from the group!


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

There is no definitive answer.

Some people say $0 difference.
Others say up to a few hundred.
Others wouldn't touch a missing COA guitar with a 10' pole.


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## vbbish (Nov 3, 2007)

Tim Plains said:


> There is no definitive answer.
> 
> Some people say $0 difference.
> Others say up to a few hundred.
> *Others wouldn't touch a missing COA guitar with a 10' pole.*


I guess that’s what I’m really asking myself now that I think about it.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

vbbish said:


> I guess that’s what I’m really asking myself now that I think about it.


What kind of guitar is it/what are the odds of it being a counterfeit?


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

Okay Player said:


> What kind of guitar is it/what are the odds of it being a counterfeit?


Funny you should mention this. I got a trade offer for my magnificent 7 tele. A 2019 thinline elite tele. Obviously, I was interested. After some chatting the guy says, non original case, no candy, COA etc. No big deal, but I like to have a COA, so I call l&m to see if they can get one for me if I bring the guitar in.

Guy calls me back, asking a bunch of questions about the guitar, "do you have it in your possession? Where did you get it from?"etc. I was super confused. He tells me that guitar was stolen from Toronto during the Feb blow out sale. He told me it's always a good idea to call l&m with a serial number to see if it's been stolen.

He also said, if you ever bring in a guitar that was stolen from l&m into an l&m, they will repo it (as is their right) with no compensation for you.

*After posting I realize you said counterfeit and not stolen. The mind sees what it wants to.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

crann said:


> *After posting I realize you said counterfeit and not stolen. The mind sees what it wants to.


You brought up a very valid reason why a guitar would be for sale with no COA. Good job


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

Lincoln said:


> You brought up a very valid reason why a guitar would be for sale with no COA. Good job


It's a little ridiculous that a guitar bought within the last few years, worth $2-3k wouldn't have a piece of paper that just sits in the case. But some people treat everything in the case, other than the guitar (sometimes the guitar itself) as disposable.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

Tim Plains said:


> There is no definitive answer.
> 
> Some people say $0 difference.
> Others say up to a few hundred.
> Others wouldn't touch a missing COA guitar with a 10' pole.


That's pretty much it--it will depend on the seller.

So it's better if you have it--for a broader range of potential buyers, but still no way to say only one answer.


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## vbbish (Nov 3, 2007)

Looking at a Gibson Les Paul Custom Black Beauty. One 04 one 07.

So I would put it quite high in terms of potential counterfeit. The one without a COA is being sold by a well known local flipper.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

vbbish said:


> Looking at a Gibson Les Paul Custom Black Beauty. One 04 one 07.
> 
> So I would put it quite high in terms of potential counterfeit. The one without a COA is being sold by a well known local flipper.


For me personally, the only thing that makes a COA desirable is it's one more piece of evidence demonstrating that a guitar isn't a counterfeit.

Ie, Someone on here sells a guitar with no COA it doesn't concern me all that much. Most of the sellers here are also frequent posters and the gear in question goes across a lot of discerning eyes before it gets bought. Now, some dude on Kijiji asking bottom dollar for something that's frequently counterfeited well? A bit of a different story.


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

My Taylor didn't have a coa but its almost 30 years old. But I got in contact with Taylor who verified that it was real


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

crann said:


> Funny you should mention this. I got a trade offer for my magnificent 7 tele. A 2019 thinline elite tele. Obviously, I was interested. After some chatting the guy says, non original case, no candy, COA etc. No big deal, but I like to have a COA, so I call l&m to see if they can get one for me if I bring the guitar in.
> 
> Guy calls me back, asking a bunch of questions about the guitar, "do you have it in your possession? Where did you get it from?"etc. I was super confused. He tells me that guitar was stolen from Toronto during the Feb blow out sale. He told me it's always a good idea to call l&m with a serial number to see if it's been stolen.
> 
> ...


Tell him you’ll do the deal but you want to meet somewhere neutral because, you know, COVID.
Offer to meet him at the nearest L&M.


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## Lincoln (Jun 2, 2008)

Okay Player said:


> For me personally, the only thing that makes a COA desirable is it's one more piece of evidence demonstrating that a guitar isn't a counterfeit.
> 
> Ie, Someone on here sells a guitar with no COA it doesn't concern me all that much. Most of the sellers here are also frequent posters and the gear in question goes across a lot of discerning eyes before it gets bought. Now, some dude on Kijiji asking bottom dollar for something that's frequently counterfeited well? A bit of a different story.


On the odd occasion I buy a new guitar, the paper work never leaves the case.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Lincoln said:


> On the odd occasion I buy a new guitar, the paper work never leaves the case.


Same. When I buy a new guitar I put everything (Receipt, case candy, COA, everything) in the case, and put the case in a little storage area I have for them never to be used again unless it ends up sold.


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

2manyGuitars said:


> Tell him you’ll do the deal but you want to meet somewhere neutral because, you know, COVID.
> Offer to meet him at the nearest L&M.


In our chatting he said he traded a guy from Mississauga his Mesa Triple Crown for it. After l&m told me the details, I ended up telling him that it was stolen. He seemed surprised, but not mad. I asked him if he was going to get his amp back or get the police involved, but he said he liked the guitar so he'll keep it.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

I've bought two Gibsons from L&M that I assume were rentals, and neither had any paperwork. That would be a reason why they're put there.


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## butterknucket (Feb 5, 2006)

What is a COA guitar?


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## vbbish (Nov 3, 2007)

butterknucket said:


> What is a COA guitar?


certificate of authenticity


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Missing COA on a guitar that's several years old and could have been through multiple owners so someone could legitimately have lost it? Ok.

Missing COA on a guitar made in 2019? Probably stolen.

On something like a Fender it's pretty easy to grab the serial number and either email Fender to confirm authenticity or plug it into their online product registration page (it will come up and tell you exactly what model it is down to the colour). I'd say missing stuff like non-original case or case candy and COA is more a warning sign that it's been stolen at some point. Pretty much every USA Fender (other than the American Special/Performer series) comes with a factory case. How does the case go missing?

Also Fender has historically been inconsistent on whether they actually include a COA with the guitar. Used to be only the American Vintage Reissues came with a COA. I bought an American Standard brand new in 2009 and there was no COA with them. Same with the Highway One I bought brand new a year before that.

Honestly, it would be pretty easy to fake a COA. Just go to Staples and buy some marbled beige card stock and print one off.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Missing COA on a guitar that's several years old and could have been through multiple owners so someone could legitimately have lost it? Ok.
> 
> Missing COA on a guitar made in 2019? Probably stolen.
> 
> ...


Fender ditched their convenient serial number lookup sometime last year.


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

Okay Player said:


> ditched their convenient serial number lookup sometime last year.


Not exactly true. If you follow the link, press start, you'll be asked to create a login. If you use FB, or just create a fake FB, you can access the product registration page. This acts like a serial lookup. It's worth creating a fake FB just for this.



https://start.fender.com/


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

crann said:


> Not exactly true. If you follow the link, press start, you'll be asked to create a login. If you use FB, or just create a fake FB, you can access the product registration page. This acts like a serial lookup. It's worth creating a fake FB just for this.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for letting me know.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

crann said:


> Not exactly true. If you follow the link, press start, you'll be asked to create a login. If you use FB, or just create a fake FB, you can access the product registration page. This acts like a serial lookup. It's worth creating a fake FB just for this.


There is no such thing as a fake Facebook login. Facebook knows exactly what computers and devices you use and all your Facebook accounts, how and where they are used, and about 50 to 60% of everywhere else you go on the Internet with a device that has logged into Facebook once.. Their tracking to build profiles is very complete. You may fool other Facebook users with a “fake” account but there is no way you fool Facebook. They will internally link all your accounts.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Okay Player said:


> Fender ditched their convenient serial number lookup sometime last year.


I can still get to it. You need to be logged into your account and it's under the gear registration section. So you put it in like you're going to register it.


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

Kerry Brown said:


> There is no such thing as a fake Facebook login. Facebook knows exactly what computers and devices you use and all your Facebook accounts


I meant "fake" as in forward facing. Google, Instagram, probably Tapatalk (GC forum hosters) etc all do this.


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## Always12AM (Sep 2, 2018)

COA value = $0.00

The internet exists.

It’s a good sign that someone is the original owner and meticulous about maintaining and storing things (like I am). But it’s the very least of any serious buyers concerns unless you are getting into $3,000+ territory.

If someone can build a guitar that is so similar to an American Professional Strat that you cannot tell the difference, it’s probably better.


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## JHall55 (Dec 6, 2016)

Always12AM said:


> If someone can build a guitar that is so similar to an American Professional Strat that you cannot tell the difference, it’s probably better.


Never thought about it this way, but that’s a fair point. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PBGas (Jan 14, 2017)

If you are a collector of guitars, then you will need the COA or it will be viewed as missing an important piece. If you are just buying the guitar to play and not worry about things like that then you can get it at a lower price and enjoy it. 

Case in point..I recently sold all 3 of my Fender CS guitars to a known collector that I have brokered guitars for before (also a friend of mine!) and he had no problem paying the full price I was asking because I had all of the correct paperwork, cases and included case accessories. The first thing he asked for was that the case and paperwork (meaning COA) were all there and correct. 

A friend recently had a Fender Custom Shop strat that he sold. He did not have the correct case or the COA for it. He ended up selling it for about $600 less then if he had those items. Again though, it depends upon the buyer and the guitar in question.


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## Foxycats (Dec 31, 2020)

COA is important, Case candy is a whatever thing for the most part, but all of those add value and increases the peace of mind for a potential buyer.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I dont think you can attach a dollar value to it, as its more dependent on the overall value and purpose of the guitar.

If we're talking about a $8k "collector" grade, itd better have every fucking thing it came with or there will likley be a substantial discount expected ...if someone even gives it a second look.
If its something more entry level ($1-2k), meh...depends on the buyer and overall attractiveness of the piece if it has an effect at all....but it wont fetch_ top_ dollar.

I always keep my COA, case candy with the guitar...But not surprised a lot of others dont...they dont seem to keep things like trem coverplates or bars with them either, for some reason, which Ive never understood.


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## sillyak (Oct 22, 2016)

Why do people think looking up a serial # online or phoning a manufacturer with a serial # is any sort of definitive confirmation of authenticity?

Lots of Chinese fakes have correct serial #s. The way to spot a fake is to inspect the guitar.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

I've never understood how someone can get counterfeit reassurance from this 1970's era level of security:









any fool could print a reasonable version of that, which are easily found on the web, replacing the guitars particulars with their own.
How is that harder to do than create an actually passable counterfeit version of the guitar?









its a cute souvenir, nothing more.


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## sillyak (Oct 22, 2016)

crann said:


> He also said, if you ever bring in a guitar that was stolen from l&m into an l&m, they will repo it (as is their right) with no compensation for you.



They will confiscate any stolen guitar, not just one stolen from L&M. Just like a pawn shop, they have to check the serial # against a government database of stolen items. If it's hot they are obligated to contact the police.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

sillyak said:


> Why do people think looking up a serial # online or phoning a manufacturer with a serial # is any sort of definitive confirmation of authenticity?
> 
> Lots of Chinese fakes have correct serial #s. The way to spot a fake is to inspect the guitar.


+1
all it means is the counterfeiter spent a few mins to use an actual serial number before churning out 1000 of them.
So, potentially a better quality fake lol


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

sillyak said:


> Why do people think looking up a serial # online or phoning a manufacturer with a serial # is any sort of definitive confirmation of authenticity?
> 
> Lots of Chinese fakes have correct serial #s. The way to spot a fake is to inspect the guitar.


Not definitive, but an additional piece of evidence. Most Chibsons have enough tells to someone who knows what to look for (carved vs pressed serial #, nibs, maple top depth, nitro vs poly finish etc).



Diablo said:


> any fool could print a reasonable version of that, which are easily found on the web, replacing the guitars particulars with their own.
> How is that harder to do than create an actually passable counterfeit version of the guitar?


In a sense, sure. But whoever owns a counterfeit guitar usually didn't make them, and for a fraudster to recreate this is more time, $ etc. I'll give you an example. I'm into high end watches. The "replicas" are so close now, that you need to look at microscopic laser etching on newer Rolex's and other minute details. The fakes of Panerai's are so good, that most shops won't take them in on trade, unless they come with box and papers. The Chinese outfits that so accurately make a timepiece, intricate watch movement, metal bracelet etc still haven't figured out a way to accurately replicate the box and papers.

A nice video demonstrating how close fake Rolex's are.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

crann said:


> Not definitive, but an additional piece of evidence. Most Chibsons have enough tells to someone who knows what to look for (carved vs pressed serial #, nibs, maple top depth, nitro vs poly finish etc).
> 
> 
> In a sense, sure. But whoever owns a counterfeit guitar usually didn't make them, and for a fraudster to recreate this is more time, $ etc. I'll give you an example. I'm into high end watches. The "replicas" are so close now, that you need to look at microscopic laser etching on newer Rolex's and other minute details. The fakes of Panerai's are so good, that most shops won't take them in on trade, unless they come with box and papers. The Chinese outfits that so accurately make a timepiece, intricate watch movement, metal bracelet etc still haven't figured out a way to accurately replicate the box and papers.
> ...


Im into watches as well (I own a 116610LN and have a new Tudor BB on its way to me this week ).
Its actually not that hard to tell a fake from a real one IF you take the back off it and look inside 

Its not that China hasnt "figured out a way to replicate the box and papers"...if you can figure out a way to replicate laser etching, sweeping hand movements etc you can figure out a way to make a green wooden box, plastic card with no technology in it, paper manual etc...its that they havent bothered to do it. Give it time. If theres an incentive for them, they will do it in a heartbeat. If the box, papers etc was so complicated, we'd be paying $10k for it and only a few hundred for the "low-tech" watch/guitar etc from the OEM. 
My personal, unfounded conspiracy theory: OEMs and counterfeiters have an unwritten agreement to not copy the included junk. Once/if they do, war will be declared on them like never before.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

crann said:


> Funny you should mention this. I got a trade offer for my magnificent 7 tele. A 2019 thinline elite tele. Obviously, I was interested. After some chatting the guy says, non original case, no candy, COA etc. No big deal, but I like to have a COA, so I call l&m to see if they can get one for me if I bring the guitar in.
> 
> Guy calls me back, asking a bunch of questions about the guitar, "do you have it in your possession? Where did you get it from?"etc. I was super confused. He tells me that guitar was stolen from Toronto during the Feb blow out sale. He told me it's always a good idea to call l&m with a serial number to see if it's been stolen.
> 
> ...


Good story. Did you leave out the part where you provided L&M with contact information for the guy who tried to trade the stolen guitar to you?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

boyscout said:


> Did you leave out the part where you provided L&M with contact information for the guy who tried to trade the stolen guitar to you?


Well since Long and McQuade isn't the police department I find it hard to believe they'd even care. Once brought in to their store then I guess thats when it concerns them. Although I don't understand how they could even have the authority to confiscated anything from someone who brings in a guitar unless maybe if the guitar in question was stolen from them.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

I think at the end of the day the key to avoiding fakes is to know what you're looking at. If you're playing at the price point of a CS type guitar it's probably a safe assumption that this isn't your first day. This is where being an educated buyer comes in - and this is true of pretty much anything. Most guys who are into a particular type or brand know the tells and can spot something that's suspect a mile away. But if you don't know the product very well then maybe picking up something like that off a gear forum or Kijiji seller isn't the best idea and you should be dealing with an authorized dealer instead. 

Like for myself, I'm a Fender guy. I know them, I love them, I'm familiar with most of their models and the history of the lines. I can spot a faked Fender pretty easily - or at least one that's not stock anymore. I had a buddy who bought a used Fender American Standard Strat from a local shop. I took one glance at it and I knew it wasn't right. Sure enough, it turned out it was an MIA neck bolted onto an MIM body. However, I know almost NOTHING about Gibsons. I would NEVER attempt to even buy a used Gibson by myself because I have no clue how to spot a forgery. There's guys out there who can spot if a decal isn't right based on the year and the size/shape of the logo, and all sorts of other little tells. I don't know the product well enough so I wouldn't risk it. 

End of the day, buyer beware. Simple as that.


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

Diablo said:


> Im into watches as well (I own a 116610LN and have a new Tudor BB on its way to me this week ).
> Its actually not that hard to tell a fake from a real one IF you take the back off it and look inside
> 
> Its not that China hasnt "figured out a way to replicate the box and papers"...if you can figure out a way to replicate laser etching, sweeping hand movements etc you can figure out a way to make a green wooden box, plastic card with no technology in it, paper manual etc...its that they havent bothered to do it.


Nice piece and great addition! The point about the movement is well taken and most experts/hobbyists can spot a miyota/seagull, but lots of pawn shops have been fooled with "decorated" movements that at least mimic the aesthetic of the original. 







Whether through laziness, or inability, ultimately, the box and papers aren't of sufficient quality to pass even an untrained eye. Again, the COA is just a piece of the puzzle, especially when you're considering buying or trading goods to an unknown entity.

For another tangent, blockchain, the technology that powers bitcoin, will be utilized to tackle this issue. Manufacturers of luxury goods are beginning to attach a digital token to their goods that acts as an ultimate COA that proves the legitimacy of a product. A cool article about how blockchain will be used in grocery stores, high end merch etc.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

crann said:


> In our chatting he said he traded a guy from Mississauga his Mesa Triple Crown for it. After l&m told me the details, I ended up telling him that it was stolen. He seemed surprised, but not mad. I asked him if he was going to get his amp back or get the police involved, but he said he liked the guitar so he'll keep it.


I call bullshit. If I owned a really expensive guitar and someone told me it was likely stolen, my reaction would NOT be “Oh well. It’s really nice so I’ll just keep it.”

I’d now have $2000 to $2500 tied up in a guitar that I’d _never_ be able to sell (at least not legally). Now that L&M has some clue as to its whereabouts, did they call the police? Are they going to eventually trace it to me and it’s going to get seized?

I’d be taking action immediately to get my stuff back from the last guy (if that’s actually what happened).


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

2manyGuitars said:


> I’d now have $2000 to $2500 tied up in a guitar that I’d _never_ be able to sell (at least not legally). Now that L&M has some clue as to its whereabouts, did they call the police? Are they going to eventually trace it to me and it’s going to get seized?


Absolutely. I tried not to get involved but the guy seemed legit until his response to me telling him it was stolen. If it were me, I'd contact the guy I traded the amp to, tell him I'll call the police if he doesn't appear at my door with my amp in the next day. Perhaps he was scared that if he did call the police, there's a chance he's out the guitar with no recourse. I don't know, people are weird and act irrationally.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> I think at the end of the day the key to avoiding fakes is to know what you're looking at. If you're playing at the price point of a CS type guitar it's probably a safe assumption that this isn't your first day. This is where being an educated buyer comes in - and this is true of pretty much anything. Most guys who are into a particular type or brand know the tells and can spot something that's suspect a mile away. But if you don't know the product very well then maybe picking up something like that off a gear forum or Kijiji seller isn't the best idea and you should be dealing with an authorized dealer instead.
> 
> Like for myself, I'm a Fender guy. I know them, I love them, I'm familiar with most of their models and the history of the lines. I can spot a faked Fender pretty easily - or at least one that's not stock anymore. I had a buddy who bought a used Fender American Standard Strat from a local shop. I took one glance at it and I knew it wasn't right. Sure enough, it turned out it was an MIA neck bolted onto an MIM body. However, I know almost NOTHING about Gibsons. I would NEVER attempt to even buy a used Gibson by myself because I have no clue how to spot a forgery. There's guys out there who can spot if a decal isn't right based on the year and the size/shape of the logo, and all sorts of other little tells. I don't know the product well enough so I wouldn't risk it.
> 
> End of the day, buyer beware. Simple as that.


Youre my polar opposite 
I know my way around Gibsons *pretty well, but Fenders scare the shit out of me...all the partscasters, frankensteins etc, some which can only be identified by a handful of digits ink stamped on the heel of just a neck.....just makes my skin crawl lol.


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## boyscout (Feb 14, 2009)

guitarman2 said:


> Well since Long and McQuade isn't the police department I find it hard to believe they'd even care. Once brought in to their store then I guess thats when it concerns them. Although I don't understand how they could even have the authority to confiscated anything from someone who brings in a guitar unless maybe if the guitar in question was stolen from them.


Well since @crann wrote the following in the post I was responding to, I believe that it WAS stolen from them. 



crann said:


> Guy calls me back, asking a bunch of questions about the guitar, "do you have it in your possession? Where did you get it from?"etc. I was super confused. He tells me that guitar was stolen from Toronto during the Feb blow out sale.


Do you know otherwise?


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## tdotrob (Feb 24, 2019)

Diablo said:


> Youre my polar opposite
> I know my way around Gibsons *pretty well, but Fenders scare the shit out of me...all the partscasters, frankensteins etc, some which can only be identified by a handful of digits ink stamped on the heel of just a neck.....just makes my skin crawl lol.
> View attachment 357765


This is me to a T. I pretty much won’t buy a used fender unless it’s coming from a 100% trusted and knowledgable source.

I wouldn’t hesitate to buy a guitar without a COA though if it was a great guitar. I guess the COA doesn’t make much difference to me if I am able to verify it in person that the guitar is legit and it’s an awesome player.
I understand completely when guys insist that they need to have them too.

Ive sold a few customs off with and without the COA. I didn’t accept lower offers on both I sold without though just because it didn’t have one. Both times the guys who offered me less stating No COA as their reason for requesting a lower sale price both came over and played them and bought them so at the end of the day it wasn’t that important to them either over the other qualities of the guitars.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Diablo said:


> Youre my polar opposite
> I know my way around Gibsons *pretty well, but Fenders scare the shit out of me...all the partscasters, frankensteins etc, some which can only be identified by a handful of digits ink stamped on the heel of just a neck.....just makes my skin crawl lol.
> View attachment 357765


I think it's just what you know and what you're used to. Gibsons scare the crap out of me. I couldn't tell you the difference between a Studio and a Custom. I don't even know the different model tiers. I think there's something called Heritage? And Standard? Fuck I don't know. My buddy is a Gibson guy and he's like, "Oh the decal on the 2016 model should be this size and the hologram isn't right blah blah blah..." Holy shit just keep it away from me. I wouldn't dare buy a used Gibson because I have no clue whether it's fake or stock or even a good deal.

I can see how Fender type guitars would be the same for someone who isn't into them.


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## Arek (Jan 24, 2009)

COA is worthless.
About 10 years ago I bought a Chibson.
It came in “original” case, with Gibson User Manual”, two blank COAs, allen key (hehe) for truss rod and flimsy cable.

Compared to real Gibson swag it was indistinguishable. 
The allen key and cheap cord were the only red flagas far as swag.

I am sure there are many chibsons with COA sold as real thing.
In same cases unknowing to the seller who got Chibson in good faith second hand as a real thing.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> "Oh the decal on the 2016 model should be this size and the hologram isn't right blah blah blah..."


You're right to avoid the hologram, but not because they're fake.


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

sillyak said:


> They will confiscate any stolen guitar, not just one stolen from L&M. Just like a pawn shop, they have to check the serial # against a government database of stolen items. If it's hot they are obligated to contact the police.


Is this database public so anyone can check if their guitar is stolen?


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## sillyak (Oct 22, 2016)

tomee2 said:


> Is this database public so anyone can check if their guitar is stolen?


Yes:






Search Vehicles and Property


Canadian Police Information Centre where the public can search the CPIC database to see if a motor vehicle or bicycle has been reported stolen. Law enforcement partners can register to access more detailed documentation and reports based on information in the CPIC database.




app.cpic-cipc.ca


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

Arek said:


> In same cases unknowing to the seller who got Chibson in good faith second hand as a real thing.


...and that wouldn’t be happening at all if there weren’t assholes buying these P.O.S. counterfeits in the first place because “What’s the big deal?”.


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## Alan Small (Dec 30, 2019)

Okay Player said:


> Fender ditched their convenient serial number lookup sometime last year.


I used the Fender site serial number registration yesterday: it is still active.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Alan Small said:


> I used the Fender site serial number registration yesterday: it is still active.
> View attachment 358050


I'm aware, but you're then registering the guitar under your account.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Okay Player said:


> I'm aware, but you're then registering the guitar under your account.


Not if you click cancel instead of accept when it looks it up.

Basically you search the serial and it brings it up and asks, "Is this your guitar?" and you say yes and register it or no and it doesn't. So just don't complete the registration.


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## Okay Player (May 24, 2020)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Not if you click cancel instead of accept when it looks it up.
> 
> Basically you search the serial and it brings it up and asks, "Is this your guitar?" and you say yes and register it or no and it doesn't. So just don't complete the registration.


That makes sense but none of this sounds nearly as convenient as it used to be.


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

silvertonebetty said:


> My Taylor didn't have a coa but its almost 30 years old. But I got in contact with Taylor who verified that it was real


I just bought a new $1700 Taylor from L&M. There was no COA. 

Should there be??


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## SWLABR (Nov 7, 2017)

My 51 Nocaster does not have original case, case candy, or COA. That all went up in smoke (literally) in a fire at the Waterloo L&M. I got it for a screamingly sweet deal. I can buy a "Custom Shop" case, and I am in the process of trying to re-authenticate it through Fender. Not for me, as I don't think I'll sell it, but it will help my wife get a better return when I go (first).


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## silvertonebetty (Jan 4, 2015)

SWLABR said:


> I just bought a new $1700 Taylor from L&M. There was no COA.
> 
> Should there be??


Not sure but I’d hope for a $4500 acoustic there would be 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

I still have the original case candy that came with my 82' Tokai. I'm not sure it makes the guitar worth more - but I'm pretty sure it helps somehow if even if it's just a "nice-to-have".


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

If a guitar came with a COA then I would not buy it without the COA unless the price was actually, literally not a single penny higher than any other typical non-COA guitar. In my world the "extra dollar value" is entirely contained in that piece of paper. Without the COA it's just another guitar. Perhaps a good one. Maybe even a really good one. But the fact it is a good one would be the reason I bought it ... for a fair price. Not the fact that it used to have a COA and I certainly would not pay more because it used to have a COA. There are tons of guitars on the used market and lots of them are really good. I have plenty of other choices. If a seller wants more money because this one is special then he (or she) needs to verify that with the COA. Otherwise I'll pass, thanks.

My two cents.


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## John123 (Jul 22, 2020)

What about something like a PRS Ltd Ed. Experience model with no COA?


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm sorry I don't have anything to add in terms of selling price impact, but if these are Fenders or Gibsons, is it not possible to obtain replacement COAs from the maker?

I would think a COA would be far more meaningful if a copy of each was kept on file by the maker. 

I'm not sure if they do that or not.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Gibson doesn't.


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## hatspin (Aug 19, 2019)

If you can't tell a counterfeit from a real Gibson without the COA, you either don't know much about guitars or it's an amazing counterfeit. Either way, you don't lose.

But seriously, what makes people think someone could copy a complicated object like a guitar to a degree that you couldn't tell it from the real thing, but couldn't copy a piece of paper? COA are a bit of a joke in that sense.

I've bought and sold Gibsons without a COA before. Only ever had one potential buyer walk away because there wasn't a COA, so even from a resale perspective I wouldn't worry about it.

Get the cheaper one if you like it.

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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

hatspin said:


> But seriously, what makes people think someone could copy a complicated object like a guitar to a degree that you couldn't tell it from the real thing, but couldn't copy a piece of paper? COA are a bit of a joke in that sense.


Exactly


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## LouisFNCyphre (Apr 23, 2021)

I don't think I've ever owned a guitar with a CoA.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

LouisFNCyphre said:


> I don't think I've ever owned a guitar with a CoA.


Meaning you’ve never owned one that required a COA or one that once had one but now doesn’t?


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## LouisFNCyphre (Apr 23, 2021)

2manyGuitars said:


> Meaning you’ve never owned one that required a COA or one that once had one but now doesn’t?


Never owned one that required/came with one, I assume because I've never owned a Made in USA or Made in Japan guitar.


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## Squawk (Jun 21, 2018)

2manyGuitars said:


> ...and that wouldn’t be happening at all if there weren’t assholes buying these P.O.S. counterfeits in the first place because “What’s the big deal?”.


Amen to that. This is entirely the fvcking problem.


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## BlueRocker (Jan 5, 2020)

Squawk said:


> Amen to that. This is entirely the fvcking problem.


Yet there seem to be many folks who think a high end / custom guitar with another manufacturer's name on the headstock is somehow a "homage" instead of a knock-off.


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## amesburymc (May 14, 2006)

To me COA is pretty important especially for expensive guitars ($3-4000+). It's true it's just a piece of paper but it's still a part of the package/experience and if I'm paying that much of money, I'd want it as complete as possible. That being said, I've never asked any seller to lower the price because of the missing COA. I think I've passed couple of deals because of it and I don't miss any of them. It's like getting a pedal with/without a box, etc. I have bought few pedals without box, etc and I didn't mind at all lol. It really depends on what you want to get for your money.


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## Squawk (Jun 21, 2018)

I’d ask any seller why the COA is missing. It’s a big red flag. No one that I’ve ever known just throws them out, unless maybe it’s a cheap guitar (do Jay Turser’s have a COA??). Not on any custom shop guitars, etc. Anyway…


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