# Getting a guitar across the border ...



## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

I intend to sell one of my guitars in the USA and I live 10 minutes from the border. I will probably put adds on american forums. If it sells I will pack it and drive to the US to ship it from there. 

Anybody does that ? Get bothered by border patrol ?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

You can bring a guitar with you across the border according to Cites,


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## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

Do not discuss doing commerce. I have had several experiences taking parts for my racing engines to specific engine service companies with great reputations, including proper documentation. When a border agent decides to be a dick, be prepared for problems and watch your words, attitude, etc.

My personal items have nothing to do with commerce. Racing is considered a business in the U.S. I just lost money to racing a car, basically a donation to the track for the privilege to use a race track. For me going fast, legally and safely, was all I cared about. So bringing a guitar to ship, could open a can of worms; or not. The border agent is there to justify your entry into the country. I also don't want to make problems with my NEXUS. They have threatened to take it away, for not liking hearing the truth.


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

Yes, do NOT pre-pack it. Pack it at the UPS store when you get there. Have a reason for going to the US. Don't lie, make it legit. Order something to the UPS Store, whatever. Last time I told them I had stuff to mail from the US, I had to go in, do paperwork, and pay tax.


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## Tone Chaser (Mar 2, 2014)

jayoldschool said:


> Yes, do NOT pre-pack it. Pack it at the UPS store when you get there. Have a reason for going to the US. Don't lie, make it legit. Order something to the UPS Store, whatever. Last time I told them I had stuff to mail from the US, I had to go in, do paperwork, and pay tax.


Exactly! I was going to add all that, but I was uncertain about the acceptance of my personal experience as a common one,


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Tell them you are going to do a little shopping and fill up on gas. Then do a little shopping (milk and eggs) and get some gas.


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Travelling across the border to sell an item is illegal and if they find out they will rip you a new one. Best to ship it from Canada so the value is documented and taxes paid. I have all my US purchases shipped to the US border where I pick them up, declare them and pay the tax. Each time the Yanks ask if I am shipping anything out while I am across and they often check the rear of my vehicle. You have been warned.


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Sorry to hear about trouble other people have had. Makes me reluctant to say don't worry about it.

I have lived near the border all my life in both Ontario and on the prairies. 

I have never had a problem. Never tried anything sneaky. Countless items moved both ways. Made lots of money from eBay. Paid occasionally but very seldom. 

Crossing the border regularly really helps, as the first thing they do is check the computer. Don't you buy your gas there? I also have parcels sent to the post office or a business (hardware store) and pick things up regularly in the states. Be sure to go with an empty tank and fill up.

Pre-pack but always leave package open so they can see inside easily. Have a receipt disclosing the value. Assume the attitude that they have all the power and you are happy to comply. 

Do not ship thru customs without a broker, they will NOT repackage properly after tearing it apart.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

anything to Declare? No sir, just meeting up with pals to play a bit of guitar....


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## Pedro-x (Mar 7, 2015)

knight_yyz said:


> anything to Declare? No sir, just meeting up with pals to play a bit of guitar....


No! 
Their next question "what are their names and addresses?" Then you can decide if you want to lie or come clean. I have a buddy who can tell you what happens if you come clean.... he has been afraid to back across since (5 yrs), and if they catch you lying well they will water board you and send you to gitmo.


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## Pedro-x (Mar 7, 2015)

By the way if they have rosewood boards and you are taking them across the border to sell there may be other issues.

New CITES Regulations For All Rosewood Species


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Yeah, don't pack it or take any packing materials with you. That way, it's just a personal possession and legit in the eyes of border. Better have a reason for crossing, though.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

keto said:


> Yeah, don't pack it or take any packing materials with you. That way, it's just a personal possession and legit in the eyes of border. Better have a reason for crossing, though.


Technically, you are suppose to register high $$$ personal goods that you are entering into the US with. If you enter the USA with a guitar and don't come back with one, you have violated policies and not sure on the ramifications. The odds are small of getting caught but the pinch may leave a bruise....


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## BSTheTech (Sep 30, 2015)

Alex said:


> Technically, you are suppose to register high $$$ personal goods that you are entering into the US with. If you enter the USA with a guitar and don't come back with one, you have violated policies and not sure on the ramifications. The odds are small of getting caught but the pinch may leave a bruise....


I spent 20 years in a different hobby with toys each valued about the same as a Les Paul Standard. Every Spring I'd go to the local custom place to get them documented and a label affixed with a code linking them to me and that they had been seen by customs. US customs would look at the label and run the code and get the details, and still hassle me for selling parts in the US (which I never did). Talk to the car racing guys they'll give you similar stories.

You might get away with it, you might not. The question is the penalty worth saving a few bucks in tax that the BUYER pays?


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

*It does not apply to instruments shipped within the borders of your country or instruments carried for personal use while traveling internationally* [unless they contain more than 22 lbs. (10 kg) of the regulated woods].


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

knight_yyz said:


> *It does not apply to instruments shipped within the borders of your country or instruments carried for personal use while traveling internationally* [unless they contain more than 22 lbs. (10 kg) of the regulated woods].


That is correct - you can go in but you need to come back with the instrument - the operative words are "personal use"


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

keto said:


> Yeah, don't pack it or take any packing materials with you. That way, it's just a personal possession and legit in the eyes of border. Better have a reason for crossing, though.


Extremely bad advice. EVERYTHING BY THE BOOK. You are a part-time smuggler. They are full-time guards.

If the guitar is high value, make sure you know exactly what the MAXIMUM cost will be before making a deal with an American. If extremely high-- talk to a broker and work that cost into the price.

And avoid any suggestions from your American buyer to "fool" customs. Let him come and get it in Canada. You can read about it in the paper. 

EVERYTHING BY THE BOOK! You could still have trouble. Listen to BStheTech. Don't even think about the petty lying thing. One look at your face, and you can write off the United States as a travel destination.


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## capnjim (Aug 19, 2011)

Border guards have built in Bullshit detectors. If you even think about trying something tricky, they will know. They have the power to make your life a living hell. 
But, if you do try, maybe you should do some butthole stretching exercises in preparation.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Alex said:


> That is correct - you can go in but you need to come back with the instrument - the operative words are "personal use"


And how are they going to police that? I doubt homeland security is calling up the CBSA and saying, ya some dude with license number such and such is going to play a guitar so make sure he brings one back with him.

Items you must declare at the border. I don't see guitars, or cameras or laptops etc. Selling for BUSINESS is the key

Items you purchased in the other country. We have seen reports of travelers detained because their tires simply _looked_ new. They then had to prove they had not purchased the product over the boarder. Even if you used the item up completely it is still technically subject to duty.
Gifts your received, or are bringing for someone at home.
Items you bought in duty-free shops.
Medicines
Repairs or alterations to any items you brought across the border and then brought back – even if the repairs / alterations were performed free of charge.
Items you are bringing back for someone else.
Items you intend to sell or use in your *business*, including *business merchandise* that you took out of the country and are now returning with.
Items you inherited.
You are allowed to bring as much cash across the border as you wish but you must declare any amount greater than $10,000. The border services seizes millions of dollars in cash every year


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Well, I am not in the business of selling gear although the frequency of my FS ads might disprove that.

If you are certain, then simply tell the US customs officer that you are crossing the border to ship a guitar. Cheers


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

Border guard sees your eyes shift or stare too hard . He flags you on the computer. No evidence. No "homeland security". No phone call to the Canadians. You are searched and detained.

Next time you cross you are ruthlessly searched and endlessly detained, by some other guy who doesn't even know why.

Do you have any rights? No.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I've been detained before but not for attempted smuggling. If you are searched/flagged you deal with Homeland Security


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## KapnKrunch (Jul 13, 2016)

knight_yyz said:


> I've been detained


.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I crossed into the States 26 times one year, and I never declared anything going in. And they never checked. Anything to declare? No, where you going? Going to check my mailbox at Can Am. Have a nice day...

The trick coming back is much the same. Always always always buy something. Even if it is just 4 quarts of oil and a filter. Always declare that something on the way back.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

@KapnKrunch 

your point?


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

I go across almost once a week to fill up with gas. Often I cross with thousands of dollars worth of windsurfing gear. I've been across hundreds of times over 63 years. Been searched a few times, like anybody else, random searches. I even had for a while, problems with having the same name and birth date as a criminal. What saved me is that he was missing one finger.

All I was asking here, is if I'll have to fill some kind of paperwork and pay some amount, to legally get a guitar across to sell in the States. If you've never done this personally, it's all fun, but your comment doesn't add to my knowledge.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Well, that wasn't how you worded your post. So, there's a whole thread here on CITES, where if the guitar has any rosewood or certain other woods, you have to apply to the feds for a certificate of export. There are links in that thread to where the forms are. Given it's going to take 30-40 days to get the cert, most of us are looking for loopholes around it, most international buyers won't wait around that long.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

I got my Japanese Greco delivered from Japan a few weeks ago, rosewood board, no one batted an eyelash over it.


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

Alex said:


> If you are certain, then simply tell the US customs officer that you are crossing the border to ship a guitar. Cheers


Yes, this is all you have to say. If they ask why, you can always say you're shipping it to a very good luthier for a refinish or repair because there aren't any good ones locally. They wouldn't question you further. 

I drove to the states last year with my Danocaster and shipped it from NY State. The guard asked why, I said a "a repair" and that was it.


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## Rickenbacker198 (Jan 10, 2017)

I've sold lots of high value guitars and amps across the border. 
I just tell them exactly what I'm doing. 
Crossing to ship x I sold on eBay , over RIG TALK etc.. 
Never once have I had to pay tax.


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

Thanks to you both Tim and Rickenbacker198, valuable info here.
Did they ask to see the guitar, was it already packed ?


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## tomsy49 (Apr 2, 2015)

It think it would really depend on where you cross. If it was one of the main border crossings (like a 24 hour one) they tend to be more strict and ask more questions. The crossings i go through are smaller ones and you usually don't get questions more than "why are you heading down there" and "when will you be back." Maybe other borders are different, but if i went to the States with a guitar, they will never know if i am coming back with it because when you come back into Canada, the Canadian customs building is separate from the American one so they wouldn't have a clue if the guitar stayed down there or not.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

tomsy49 said:


> It think it would really depend on where you cross. If it was one of the main border crossings (like a 24 hour one) they tend to be more strict and ask more questions. The crossings i go through are smaller ones and you usually don't get questions more than "why are you heading down there" and "when will you be back." Maybe other borders are different, but if i went to the States with a guitar, they will never know if i am coming back with it because when you come back into Canada, the Canadian customs building is separate from the American one so they wouldn't have a clue if the guitar stayed down there or not.



Often depends on the border guard. Sometime you get the catch-all questions "Do you have anything to declare" or "Are you leaving anything behind in the States". I've had this one a few times, especially when bringing visible non-luggage items like skis and golf clubs.


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## Rickenbacker198 (Jan 10, 2017)

BGood said:


> Thanks to you both Tim and Rickenbacker198, valuable info here.
> Did they ask to se the guitar, was it already packed ?


I've always had it already packed. 
I put it beside me in the front seat or on the back seat so they can see the box. 
I've been asked," how much is it worth" 
Never been sent in or had anything opened. 
I don't think they care as long as it's personal and you don't turn it into a business. 

This is crossing in Sarnia or Detroit. 

Honestly the Canadian side is a bigger PITA. 
I've had them dig through my emails a few times because they wouldn't believe what I bought it for. On the canadian side a reciept is everything.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

My advice, cuz I do it all the time: Tell them you've sold a guitar to someone in the US and are shipping it out from there to save the buyer money. It was sold personally and not commercially and take a copy of the sales receipt (paypal, etc). Worst case, they send you inside to pay a one-time fee of ~$15 US to "import" the guitar into the US. Most times they just send me on my way though...or chat me up if they're a fellow musician ;^ )

It's really not complicated...


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## BGood (Feb 20, 2015)

tomsy49 said:


> The crossings i go through are smaller ones and you usually don't get questions more than "why are you heading down there" and "when will you be back." Maybe other borders are different, but if i went to the States with a guitar, they will never know if i am coming back with it because when you come back into Canada, the Canadian customs building is separate from the American one so they wouldn't have a clue if the guitar stayed down there or not.


Same situation here, not much worried about that.



StevieMac said:


> My advice, cuz I do it all the time: Tell them you've sold a guitar to someone in the US and are shipping it out from there to save the buyer money. It was sold personally and not commercially and take a copy of the sales receipt (paypal, etc). Worst case, they send you inside to pay a one-time fee of ~$15 US to "import" the guitar into the US. Most times they just send me on my way though...or chat me up if they're a fellow musician ;^ )
> 
> It's really not complicated...


Good, thanks. That's about what I intend to do. Nice for it to be confirmed.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

For those who have taken stuff over for sale, have you done so this year? I'd guess the border po-lice have heightened awareness of the CITES stuff right now, I'd not personally do that with a rosewood board axe right now today.


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

keto said:


> For those who have taken stuff over for sale, have you done so this year?


Yup. Brought a guitar over each border this year and nobody showed the slightest interest in it's wood content...


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## Tim Plains (Apr 14, 2009)

I wouldn't pack the guitar ahead of time. For all they know, you may have 10 lbs of coke in that box. Bring everything with you so you can cross the border and then pack it, or pack it all but don't tape it up until you cross. That's what I would do but I'm not you.


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## Pierrafeux (Jul 12, 2012)

Pedro-x said:


> By the way if they have rosewood boards and you are taking them across the border to sell there may be other issues.
> 
> New CITES Regulations For All Rosewood Species



What about these new rules are they effective ??? Do we need any documentation and if so, were can we get that documentation. please if anybody know more about it can you give us more clue.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

If you don't get caught you have no problem, but, if you do get caught it's usually on the way back.....on the Canadian side. Especially if you are only there for a short time. Once they start looking, things get put into the computer and then you're screwed. Best thing is to add the taxes etc. to the selling price and either ship it from Canada or declare everything at the border. Better yet, if you sell it to someone across the line have them pick it up on the Canadian side and then it's their problem.


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## simonaustin96 (Nov 18, 2020)

Hey, I know this is an old thread now. I have a similar question, in the months/ years to come _(when things open up again)-- _I will be touring in the US frequently. If I buy a guitar in the USA and come back into Canada with it, I would be expected to pay duties on it correct?

Secondly, one of the members of my band is from Syracuse, NY _(not too far from the Canadian border)_. Would it make sense to say leave any guitars I get on tour with him for the time being, and then when he makes a trip into Canada for our rehearsals he could bring them in _(but would he be questioned when heading back to US without said guitars?)_.


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## troyhead (May 23, 2014)

simonaustin96 said:


> If I buy a guitar in the USA and come back into Canada with it, I would be expected to pay duties on it correct?


If you are in the USA for more than 48 hours, your personal exemption is $800 when bringing items back. If the guitar was made in the USA, then you would only owe tax on the remaining balance, and no duties 



simonaustin96 said:


> Would it make sense to say leave any guitars I get on tour with him for the time being, and then when he makes a trip into Canada for our rehearsals he could bring them in


If I were your friend, I wouldn’t want to be carrying things for other people across international borders. He becomes responsible for them and any charges. Also, if he has a lot of gear to bring across, the border guards might get suspicious, especially if some of it looks brand new. They could easily say, “We assume you are leaving all of this in Canada because it looks new and you can’t prove otherwise,” and then charge taxes & duties for everything. Technically, equipment brought into Canada even for short-term use needs to be “temporarily imported” and declared to be exempt from duties and tax, and then it is tracked to make sure it leaves the country again.

Lastly, is it worth it to save a few bucks to try and get around the rules? Sure, the chance of getting caught might seem low, but the potential consequence is being hassled every time crossing the border, or maybe even denied entry into the country. I presume it would be detrimental to your band if your friend from Syracuse was not allowed into Canada, so it’s really not worth the risk.


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## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Well, don't over-think it. If you are officially on tour- permits in place and all that- you will of course have guitars with you. If you have to itemize everything you have then you can't add to it and not expect pay tax. You can always mail it to yourself and limit the value on the customs form in order to pay a bit less. That also has its pitfalls though.
If you have your friend bring it with him on a visit, as far as customs people are concerned, it's his guitar and nobody is keeping track of some dude with a guitar. That's your best option.

Or, you could just be straight about it and pay the tax on it. By bringing it with you and declaring it at the border, you at least are not paying handling or brokerage fees. If you buy from a sympathetic seller, they may give you a receipt with a lower value- not usually an issue with a private sale.


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## BMW-KTM (Apr 7, 2015)

Guys this thread is close to 4 years old.


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## 2manyGuitars (Jul 6, 2009)

BMW-KTM said:


> Guys this thread is close to 4 years old.


Yes, but @simonaustin96 asked a follow-up question regarding touring and crossing the border. That’s mostly what the current replies are discussing.


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