# Cab construction material...



## dan_ (Feb 5, 2008)

*Cab construction material... (UPDATED! Construction Complete)*

I know there's a slew of DIY'ers out there on this board when it comes to pedals and guitars, so I'm assuming that there must be some that have ventured into the amp building side of things.

This weekend, I'm looking to start building a 2x12 cabinet for myself. I'm basing the cabinet on an AC30 combo plan I found via google, but I have a question about construction materials.

I've been told by some to go with 3/4x12 white pine, and by other to go with birch plywood. Now, I went to my local lumberyard today to inquire about birch plywood, and was faced with the question - "veneer core or particle core." From what I've been reading on the interwebs, it seems as though veneer core is the choice of cabinet makers (when it comes to making kitchen cabinetry etc). Is this the right choice for a guitar cab?

Any suggestions/help you can provide me with will be VERY much appreciated...everything from materials, to a suggestion for a better plan to build from, to wiring....the sky's the limit. This is my cry for help :bow:

Thanks!


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## Scottone (Feb 10, 2006)

dan_ said:


> I
> This weekend, I'm looking to start building a 2x12 cabinet for myself. I'm basing the cabinet on an AC30 combo plan I found via google, but I have a question about construction materials.
> 
> I've been told by some to go with 3/4x12 white pine, and by other to go with birch plywood. !


I prefer the birch ply cabs myself but it is a matter of taste. Pine is more resonant and brighter to my ear..

Scott


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Particle core would be for a kitchen cabinets where all edges are exposed edges are covered are hidden and there is no need for strength like supporting a handle and speakers. Basically particle board with veneer on it. 

Veneer core is several layers of veneers layered up with glue. 

As far as sound I know nothing. From a non woodworkers' standpoint ( yours) it may be cheaper to purchase the pine because you don't need to purchase a whole sheet and only need to buy eight or ten feet of pine. 

Local lumber yard? Keep in mind that you may be only buying 11 1/2" wide piece if that has any bearing on your final dimensions.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Dan. I built a 2x12 cab last year. I found all of the info on the net. As far as wood goes, the only advice I can give you is get the good stuff. I cheaped out and bought from a stack that was half price (turned out it was for a good reason). It was extremely difficult to work with because it warped a bit. It's only good for firewood now!


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Stratin2traynor said:


> Dan. I built a 2x12 cab last year. I found all of the info on the net. As far as wood goes, the only advice I can give you is get the good stuff. I cheaped out and bought from a stack that was half price (turned out it was for a good reason). It was extremely difficult to work with because it warped a bit. It's only good for firewood now!


Nothing like quality lumber. Kiln dried rough lumber joined and planed would be the best. Get in touch with a local cabinetmaker would be my suggestion for sure. I hate Home despot :food-smiley-004:


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## dan_ (Feb 5, 2008)

Thanks for the tips so far.

I probably should have mentioned that I'm getting some help from a wood-saavy friend, whose workshop has every woodworking tool imaginable. 

So, if I end up going with the pine for construction, what material would you guys recommend for the baffle?


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## dan_ (Feb 5, 2008)

Stratin2traynor said:


> Dan. I built a 2x12 cab last year. I found all of the info on the net. As far as wood goes, the only advice I can give you is get the good stuff. I cheaped out and bought from a stack that was half price (turned out it was for a good reason). It was extremely difficult to work with because it warped a bit. It's only good for firewood now!


Do you remember what plan you used? Are you happy with your final result (after the wood issues?? :smile


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

I made up my own plan based on research. I have no idea if the measurements I used are any kind of standard but I based my measurements on volume. I believe I looked up a nice 2x12 cab and figure out the volume. I then designed the cab with the volume in mind. I also found another site that suggested the dimension measurements not be ALL odd or ALL even - something like that. Unfortunately I didn't bookmark these sites so I can't pass the URL's on to you. 

As for how content I am with the final results. 

Cabinet structure: very happy. It's kinda like a 4x12 slant cab cut in half. it's solid and sounds really good.

Looks: not so much. it turned out OK but I messed up the rounding of the edges. I did 1/4 round instead of 1/2 round. So the corner pieces that I had bought, didn't fit. Stupid mistake. It looks kinda boxey. 

Here's a photo:








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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Oh yeah...Forgot to mention that I modified the front of the amp head to match the cab. My vision was almost achieved! I plan on building a matching 1x12 cab pretty soon, only because I have a few extra speakers and some wood kicking around.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Kevin O'connor has as a book on the subject. 
His site is http://www.londonpower.com A friend of mine built one from O'connors book and it is ported and sounds HUGE !!

I used pine for my 1x12" and copied the size of a Fender DRRI.

I think the pine is "warmer" than MDF or Birch ply. The baffle on mine is 1/2" birch ply and is floating* (*i.e., only attached to the cab on 2 sides.

Good Luck and keep us posted with your progress.

Dave


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Stratin2traynor said:


> I plan on building a matching 1x12 cab pretty soon, only because I have a few extra speakers and some wood kicking around.


Get's you in trouble everytime 

:sport-smiley-002:


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## SinCron (Mar 2, 2006)

How much would making a 4X12 cab cost? Wondering on price before I take the project up. Would individual speaker places be best? Not sure the term but instead of having it all open inside, just have each speaker enclosed in it's own environment. I was thinking of doing that and porting the cab along the bottom (yeah, sounds complex for a guitar cab) for some extra thump.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> Get's you in trouble everytime
> 
> :sport-smiley-002:


I can just hear my wife now...."What are you DOING down there!"


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

SinCron said:


> How much would making a 4X12 cab cost? Wondering on price before I take the project up. Would individual speaker places be best? Not sure the term but instead of having it all open inside, just have each speaker enclosed in it's own environment. I was thinking of doing that and porting the cab along the bottom (yeah, sounds complex for a guitar cab) for some extra thump.


Kinda hard to give you a price without doing a lot of work. So, to teach a man to fish...:smile:

I'd start by googling around for DIY speaker cabinet sites. Then I'd ignore anything about ports and hifi stuff.

You see, ports and things tune a cab for maximum bass response. The thing is, a standard guitar doesn't put out below 100 hz and the tuning stuff only works for frequencies below that.

Lead guitar cabs are basically just frames to hold the speakers, except for two big factors - open or closed back. Open back cabs sound louder and fill better. Closed back cabs are "tighter" and more directional.

Once you've found a design then you're off to a wood store to price the wood, screws and glue. http://thetubestore.com has some grill cloth. There are other net sources that have much more selection but at higher prices. You'll have to choose some covering. Tolex is available from those net sources or you can go with that furry carpet stuff. I like to buy vinyl upholstery material from my wife's favourite mill store. It's not as "poke" resistant as tolex but it handles bumps just fine, is easily touched up with auto kits from Crappy Tire and its MUCH cheaper!

You'll likely want some chrome corners. Some of the music stores carry hardware. Those tolex/grill cloth net stores like http://tubesandmore.com will have corners and such as well.

See why it's so much work to come up with a price? After you've done all this just total it up and you've got the price for an empty cab, assuming your labour cost is just love.

Have fun!

:food-smiley-004:


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

For anyon interested that fuzzy carpet stuff is called 'Ozite' and you can find it at Trans Canada Hardware. It comes in grey, black and somethimes blue. I believe you can special order different colours if you like, but I'm not sure on this.

You can also go to Canadian Tire and get some pickup bed liner (Hippo Liner, Rhino Liner or the house brand) Some come in packages with a textured roller. This stuff works great, and it is super tough - very road worthy. You can get it in different colours and you can paint it. If it chips, it is easy enough to touch up.

I've seen paintable rocker guard (the stuff that dries) used over the bed liner to tone down the glossy finish and make cabinets less likely to walk when they are stacked.


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## bcmatt (Aug 25, 2007)

Wild Bill said:


> You'll have to choose some covering. Tolex is available from those net sources or you can go with that furry carpet stuff. I like to buy vinyl upholstery material from my wife's favourite mill store. It's not as "poke" resistant as tolex but it handles bumps just fine, is easily touched up with auto kits from Crappy Tire and its MUCH cheaper!
> :food-smiley-004:


For all my cabinets, I have gotten "Marine Vinyl" from Fabricland. I believe it is their most expensive vinyl that they have there. I love the look and feel of it and I think it is around the same price as tolex. However, I have learned that it isn't poke resistant and it doesn't take much to rip into it if a cab is bumped against anything hard or remotely sharp. Even though it feels 10 times classier than any real tolex I've ever seen or touched, I would consider real tolex next time if I want something that doesn't need to be babied. Maybe, going to a saddlemaker and getting a real leather covering made would be best. Then you would have something worthy of the love that you put into building the thing custom.
I get all my other hardware from www.tubesandmore.com, not because they are the cheapest on everything, but because they had the handles I like and they have the particular styles I was looking for. The cost comes down to reducing the different number of places that you have to pay for shipping from and I can get most everything I need from that one site.


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

Paul said:


> The low E on a guitar is E2, which is about 82.407 Hz. G2 is about 97.999Hz. Most electric guitar sounds are quite distorted with more harmonic content than fundamental, so you really don't need a lot of performance under 100Hz, but with all the guys tuning to drop D, or with a 7 string tuned down a tone, the low note on a guitar can be as low as A1, @ 55Hz. Now tuning the cabinet becomes an issue.
> 
> Just throwing some facts into the mix.


Quite right, Paul! I forgot about all those open C guys where the strings practically fall off!

I should have remembered that, since I run into it with these guys expecting bass amp performance out of a lead guitar tube amp. A JCM800 or a SLO100 has an output trannie smaller than that for a bass amp, as I'm sure you know. At high volumes they can't help but mush out.

So if that's the kind of stuff he wants to play then he should forget about a 4-12 and run maybe a 2-15 bass cab, with ports and such if necessary.

:food-smiley-004:


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Hamm Guitars said:


> For anyon interested that fuzzy carpet stuff is called 'Ozite' and you can find it at Trans Canada Hardware. It comes in grey, black and somethimes blue. I believe you can special order different colours if you like, but I'm not sure on this.
> 
> You can also go to Canadian Tire and get some pickup bed liner (Hippo Liner, Rhino Liner or the house brand) Some come in packages with a textured roller. This stuff works great, and it is super tough - very road worthy. You can get it in different colours and you can paint it. If it chips, it is easy enough to touch up.
> 
> I've seen paintable rocker guard (the stuff that dries) used over the bed liner to tone down the glossy finish and make cabinets less likely to walk when they are stacked.


I buy spray cans of the stuff for making small battery-powered amp cabs. Stinks but it dries fast and rugged.


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## SinCron (Mar 2, 2006)

I just put my speakers from my Behringer cab and put them into a Peavey 4X12 bass cab. This is damn good timing considering I'm getting a 7 string today and the cab has two bass fins so it can handle the low (as I will be tuning to both A and drop G). I haven't tried it yet but I can't wait to! I put my empty cab on top of the cab and now it's taller than me. I love it!


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## dan_ (Feb 5, 2008)

Thanks a lot for all the tips and tangents...this thread has been really useful. I'm going to be starting my build on Tuesday next week, so I'll try and take some pictures along the way. Here's what I know so far about the project...

The plan I'm using: AC30 combo (tweaked to be just a cab)

Construction/Baffle: Birch Plywood (was considering pine, but I can only source 4'x8' sheets of the birch plywood...may as well go with it for all the construction at the price i'm paying)

Speakers: Hellatone 30 and Hellatone 60

Finishing touches (ie tolex etc) are yet to be decided...my budget (and accountant  ) has necessitated a step-by-step process with financial controls along the pathway.


(I think) this is the last question, and it's regarding speaker mounting. I'll be mounting the speakers from the back to the baffle, but is there anything special I need to consider in doing so? Anything I should know about mounting hardware? Does anything go between the speaker and the baffle?


I apologize if these are dumb questions...first timer here (obvious by now, right?)


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## peter benn (Mar 29, 2007)

For an old solid pine source, are there any construction recyclers in your area (doors, etc.)?


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

I used T-nuts in mine. Worked really well.



dan_ said:


> Thanks a lot for all the tips and tangents...this thread has been really useful. I'm going to be starting my build on Tuesday next week, so I'll try and take some pictures along the way. Here's what I know so far about the project...
> 
> The plan I'm using: AC30 combo (tweaked to be just a cab)
> 
> ...


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## dan_ (Feb 5, 2008)

Stratin2traynor said:


> I used T-nuts in mine. Worked really well.


Okay - so using those, did you drill through the baffle, and mount the t-nuts on the side opposite the speaker?


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## washburned (Oct 13, 2006)

*Rear Mounting*

If you are rear mounting your speakers you can use T nuts mounted from the front but they may show thru the grille material, and you have to make sure the machine screwsdon't extend past the nuts. There is a screw made for mounting from the front with a standard right hand machine screw thread for the speaker and a left hand wood screw thread, so when you tighten the nut on the back side (speaker side) the screw doesn't back out; these countersink into the baffle and don't stick out into the grille. Hard to describe and i can't find a picture...if I do I'll post.

http://www.dc-daylight.ltd.uk/Valve-Audio-Interest/Loud-Speakers/BBC-LS3-5A/LS3-5A.html

There is a picture on this page.


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## dan_ (Feb 5, 2008)

washburned said:


> If you are rear mounting your speakers you can use T nuts mounted from the front but they may show thru the grille material, and you have to make sure the machine screwsdon't extend past the nuts. There is a screw made for mounting from the front with a standard right hand machine screw thread for the speaker and a left hand wood screw thread, so when you tighten the nut on the back side (speaker side) the screw doesn't back out; these countersink into the baffle and don't stick out into the grille. Hard to describe and i can't find a picture...if I do I'll post.
> 
> http://www.dc-daylight.ltd.uk/Valve-Audio-Interest/Loud-Speakers/BBC-LS3-5A/LS3-5A.html
> 
> There is a picture on this page.



Thanks!

All the knowledge shared in this thread is worthy of some sort of guide...I'll see what I can do about that when the build is finished :food-smiley-004:


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

Dan. I mounted mine on the flip side (grill cloth side) of the baffle. I sprayed the baffle and T-nuts flat black so they wouldn't show beneath the grill cloth. I used +/- 3/4 machine screws to mount the speaker. Worked like a charm. Washburned's idea sounds good too though. Good luck and don't forget pics.


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## dan_ (Feb 5, 2008)

*UPDATE: The cab is (structurally) finished!*

Well, after a day and a half of work in the shop, the cabinet is finished (minus tolex and grill cloth).

Here's an overview of the process and my thoughts/decisions...

After considering all people here had said, and doing some research, I realized that the wood used to build the cab needed to either be chosen for it's resonant properties, or it's ability to be acoustically 'invisible' (ie not contributing to the sound). My friend ended up having enough melamine-coated particlecore board to do the project, so I ended up electing to use his shop scraps, as opposed to buying wood for this project. The result is a tad bit on the heavy side, but it's good exercise I guess 

The construction of the cab itself was relatively simple. We used rabbet joints for the sides, top, and bottom pieces, and dado'd a groove on all four sides to accept the baffle. We cut out the speakholes on the baffle (11" diameter). All pieces were glued and clamped, and thus ended day 1.

Day 2 involved some spraypaint and a trip to home depot to find the optimal way to fasten the speakers to the baffle. The 11" cutout left little room between the screwholes on the speaker and the edge of the cutout, so T-nuts (while they would have worked) were a little tight. We ended up finding a fastener at Home Depot that was 3/8" outside diameter (and threaded), that accepted a 1/4" bolt on the inside. After pre-drilling the holes to accept the fastener, and threading them in, the speakers were then installed (with a bit of coaxing  ) A little bit of soldering, some pocketholes to hide the screws attaching the back panel, and voila - a fully functioning cabinet.

All that's left is tolex and grill cloth, on order from Mojo.

What I learned: 
- cabinet building isn't as complicated as I first thought it out to be
- sharp bits are key (a dull bit was the key contributing factor to the 'coaxing' required to fit the speaker)
- precision cutting and a careful plan eliminate headaches

Costs:
- 1 piece of 4x8 particleboard ($20.99 @ Home Depot)
- Fastening hardware (washers, bolts, fasteners) ~$10.00 @ Home Depot
- Speaker wire (4 ft) $1.00 @ Radio Shack (may have been a price error)
- Mono jack $2.50 @ Radio Shack

*Total Cost:* under $40 with tax (speakers were $190 shipped)

Tolex, grill cloth, and piping (with shipping) will likely come in around $60-75, putting my total cost around $300 for a nice 2x12 cabinet.


I'll attach pictures tonight - but bear in mind it's not too pretty yet :food-smiley-004::rockon:


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## 4x12 (Feb 25, 2008)

Hey Dan,

I'm looking forward to the pics... I always enjoy looking at home built units. Are you goona tolex or carpet it?

But honestly, I find building a cab more of an hassle than anything else. I tried the same thing a couple of years ago on a 4x12 with some Marshall specs I had for a 1960a and honestly, I could have scored one for the same price on the used market... A friend at work bought a Randall 2x12 R212CX last month for approx $375. so it kinda makes you wonder if its really worth going through all the hassles ?


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## dan_ (Feb 5, 2008)

Sorry for the late reply - going to tolex it.

And as for your point on cost...you're right that used cabs can often be found in the price range. If I didn't have access to the right tools (and a bit of spare time), I don't think I would have gone this route; however, I enjoy building things, so it wasn't strictly about the cost issue. If it costed MORE to build my own cab, though, I definitely would have reconsidered.

This would have been the case if I lived in the US, and could order directly from Avatar Speakers. 2x12 cab, tolex'd and shipped for $300. Up here though, same product was $500 from SteamCo. Pics coming soon!


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