# Do you think the Masai Ujiri incident was racially motivated?



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

After watching the vids of the incident at the championship last year, what do you think?

The media is playing it to be racial, but that seems to be the knee-jerk response when an incident happens between a black and white person.

My take is, he's an asshole cop, probably thought he was "standing up for his town" after getting defeated...and like a lot of litigious opportunists in the US, tried to make a buck off it with a ridiculous law suit. 
I don't know that it was racist necessarily. I think more evidence should be required before making those accusations.

That said, Ujiri made a lame attempt to show his pass and acted like he owned the place.
Still, an appropriate response from the cop would have been "excuse me, sir, I need to see your pass", not what he did, which IMO looked like a pissed off sports fan more than a security professional.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I think it was about money.


----------



## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

I don't think he would have pushed a 7-foot white guy in a [$2000?] suit.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Hammerhands said:


> I don't think he would have pushed a 7-foot white guy in a [$2000?] suit.


why?


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

@davetcan Shouldn't this thread be in the Political area of the forum?


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Well it's not politics or religion. Let's see how long it will remain civil before I move or delete it.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Fundamentally Ego.
Secondarily----- we have no idea what personal (including racial) bias may be at play to inform the behaviour. There is no proof of racism because we are not mind readers. Yet- I am open to being convinced that I'm missing something. Racism is pretty alive and well. I have experienced and seen it first hand a-plenty.

So I would say let's only work with what is proven. Pushing swearing, not showing a pass properly. Unneeded aggression (likely both sides)

Moving this to a racist theme may be opportunistic

My 2 cents

Markus


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

His credentials were on a lanyard, meant to be worn around his neck. If they had been this likely would never have happened. That DOES NOT excuse the cop. Simply holding up his hand would have worked.


----------



## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

I would say it's a mixture of racism, ego, stupidity and that machismo "I'm the man" thing that a few in law enforcement seem to excell at. It's pig-headed. Deputy was 100% in the wrong and it was his action that started the altercation. 

Racism is a very real thing in law enforcement- especially in the States but here as well. Sad.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

davetcan said:


> His credentials were on a lanyard, meant to be worn around his neck. If they had been this likely would never have happened. That DOES NOT excuse the cop. Simply holding up his hand would have worked.


its interesting to me how often people who have credentials, hide them, while expecting all of the privileges they assure or act insulted when having to show them.
But yes, the cop was an asshole...Ujiri was clearly not some ham n egger in the crowd looking to get a selfie.
Theres a lot of reasons people instantly dislike others in a case like this...opposing team, obviously rich, generally pissy mood/attititude etc. and yes, race. Im just not sure why one is assumed far more than the others.

The concerning thing also is, IMO, Im pretty sure a "deputy" in a major city is a fairly senior police position...he should know better. This probably also wasn't the first game he worked, so should be familiar with players, management etc. 
I'm not inclined to think it was racism, because I doubt he would have behaved this way to black players/personnel on the home team. I have no proof of course.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

__
http://instagr.am/p/CEHkYlPD3sa/


----------



## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

davetcan said:


> His credentials were on a lanyard, meant to be worn around his neck. If they had been this likely would never have happened. That DOES NOT excuse the cop. Simply holding up his hand would have worked.



Bingo. I agree. As I said "ego"
I see a lot of : " as a Merkin police officer you will respect me"
Shitty attitude


----------



## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Diablo said:


> its interesting to me how often people who have credentials, hide them, while expecting all of the privileges they assure or act insulted when having to show them.
> But yes, the cop was an asshole...Ujiri was clearly not some ham n egger in the crowd looking to get a selfie.
> Theres a lot of reasons people instantly dislike others in a case like this...opposing team, obviously rich, generally pissy mood/attititude etc. and yes, race. Im just not sure why one is assumed far more than the others.
> 
> ...




YES
Working in any position where you interact with the public you need:
1. Emotional intelligence
2. Good judgement in-the-moment
3. Maturity. (leave ego at the door)
4. A service mindset
Too many people have powers bestowed on them that exceed their mental grasp and level of maturity. Many gravitate to positions or roles of bestowed power because they never had any of that previously, or in a fair contest they would't gain any either. (and they know it)

Markus


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Markus 1 said:


> YES
> Working in any position where you interact with the public you need:
> 1. Emotional intelligence
> 2. Good judgement in-the-moment
> ...


If you add "lose any sense of entitlement" to the list I'm with you. I mean on the public side of course, that would go a long way to stop confrontations from escalating. I'm not accusing Masai of this by the way, just a general comment.


----------



## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

davetcan said:


> If you add "lose any sense of entitlement" to the list I'm with you. I mean on the public side of course, that would go a long way to stop confrontations from escalating. I'm not accusing Masai of this by the way, just a general comment.



Again, "YES"

Entitlement is likely the one thing that gets conflated with rights and privileges

" I know we want what's best for us- I know that it comes at a price
I also know the trouble that you find when you stop being nice"
Milk Carton Kids. - Ash and Clay


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Racially motivated? Black guy, white cop. Hmmm, I'll have to think about that.


----------



## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

Guitar101 said:


> Racially motivated? Black guy, white cop. Hmmm, I'll have to think about that.


"Black guy with more money and appeal than your sorry flabby white ass will ever attract...."


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Bottom line. The coach was asualted TWICE before reacting.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> Bottom line. The coach was asualted TWICE before reacting.


Yep, not much doubt about that!


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

JBFairthorne said:


> Bottom line. The coach was asualted TWICE before reacting.


Not really the coach. I think he's president of the Toronto Raptors association but I totally agree with you that he was assaulted..


----------



## Fred Gifford (Sep 2, 2019)

he's an opportunist seizing his minute in the spotlight .. rather than taking the high road he's mud slinging ... not too bright this dude


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Markus 1 said:


> "Black guy with more money and appeal than your sorry flabby white ass will ever attract...."


How did you know?


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I shudder to envision that forehand!



Guitar101 said:


> How did you know?
> View attachment 325533


----------



## Markus 1 (Feb 1, 2019)

davetcan said:


> I shudder to envision that forehand!


Melania likely encourages him to use the fore hand


----------



## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

A power tripping cop that lied on a report, nothing new there.


----------



## trace (Aug 21, 2020)

I'm not sure why my post was deleted by the moderators but some of you need to do more research on this topic before speaking about it. The sheriff's department that he works for has a long storied history of racism, ties to white supremacist groups, frequently hosts extremist groups denounced by the SPLC and is currently being censured and audited by the state of California because of it (they rejected city hall's requests so it escalated to the state). Even if you wish to be naive and argue in bad faith because there's no smoking gun directly pointing towards racism, it is obvious their department condones and promotes a culture of intolerance. These racist attitudes and beliefs trickle from leadership all the way down to their training and affect their interactions with minorities. This is a result of that. 

Secondly, it is not the police officer's job to screen for passes. It was the job of the kid next to him with the earpiece. That's why when the police officer raises his arm to point at Masai, the kid jerks his head immediately to the right in response. The kid didn't need to look at Masai's pass because he is one of the most recognizable GMs in the NBA. He is extremely popular and has been a GM for 10+ years. The arena staff are all familiar with him. The kid says something and steps aside to let Masai through. That's why when the police officer starts pushing Masai, you see the kid look at the police officer in surprise and shock. 

Lastly, he is not walking around like he owns the place.The path that he is taking leads out of the player's tunnel. There are multiple security checkpoints. Before the confrontation, the arena footage clearly shows the police officer staring at Masai presenting his credentials to security. That's why Masai was putting his pass back into his suit pocket. When the police officer raises his arm, you see Masai start fumbling around to take it out.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

The reason your original post was not approved was because it did not sound like this one, much more confrontational. You joined this forum simply to dig into what is already a very controversial topic and should likely be moved to the political section. If I had I allowed your original post it would have automatically ended up there. I've been trying to avoid that as the political section is a closed section. Option 2 would have been to ban you, also not something I like to do.

This is first and foremost a guitar forum. Stick around, show some interest in the actual subject of the forum. Once you get to know people then you can jump in to some of the other stuff.

As to your comments above.

1. It would be good to provide proof re the police force. Proof is not Facebook posts.

2. I fully agree with you with regards to the officers responsibility. He's there simply to stop people getting on the court who shouldn't. The guy with the ear piece dropped the ball. He should have told the officer Masai was legit.

3. Regardless of who's job it was there is still absolutely no excuse for the officers actions. All he had to do was hold up his hand and wait for junior with the earpiece to step in.

4. I need to take another look at the video, I was under the impression he was actually taking the credentials out, not putting them back. Not sure why they weren't around his neck the whole time.

Welcome to the Forum.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

I slowed the video down as much as possible and I'm pretty sure he's taking it out. There is no sign of it at all in the first few frames and you can clearly see him reaching in to get it. Not that it has any bearing on the cops actions.


----------



## trace (Aug 21, 2020)

davetcan said:


> 1. It would be good to provide proof re the police force. Proof is not Facebook posts.


What Facebook posts? I never mentioned Facebook. The only reason I know so much about ACSO is because I'm a huge fan of classic rock and that era of music is inextricably linked to a counterculture movement defined by civil disobedience. Woodstock and the decade or so of protests in Berkeley played a huge part in shaping that aesthetic. ACSO played a huge role in instigating the violence there. Here's an archived NYT article talking about one such instance.

If you're skeptical you can google and do your due diligence regarding the Alameda County Sheriff's Office. I understand that the burden of proof is on me, but the point of citations is for claims that cannot be easily verified. Otherwise, you would see common knowledge being cited in scientific publications. It's not difficult to uncover multiple local news articles talking about ACSO's notorious history - events that predate the Masai incident. This dysfunction has been going on for decades and it is not just isolated to racial discrimination. I mean ACSO's abuses are so notorious that they even caught the attention of the Zodiac killer. Since this is a guitar forum, I wouldn't be surprise if some of your favorite artists (ex. Country Joe and the Fish) were influenced by ACSO's abuses and you don't even know it. ACSO deputies were known to be the most ruthless and abusive police officers, that protesters specifically referred to them as "blue meanies" (for the Beatles fans out there) to differentiate ASCO from other police departments and the national guard. Not much has changed since then.



davetcan said:


> 2. I fully agree with you with regards to the officers responsibility. He's there simply to stop people getting on the court who shouldn't. The guy with the ear piece dropped the ball. He should have told the officer Masai was legit.


Well the officer is only there to fulfill legal requirements set forth by the NBA. They're not really security. That's why you just see them standing around doing nothing. Whereas all the security functions are being fulfilled by the guys in the blue suits.

And the guy in the ear piece did say something. He mutters something twice as he moves out of the way. It is hard to make out what he is saying. I think he is saying it is alright, it is alright but I could be wrong. However, everything about his body language says that everything was kosher. Besides, multiple eyewitness accounts have said that multiple people told the police officer who Masai was before the encounter. I'm assuming this happened when he points at Masai.

I also think some people have a gross misunderstanding of how strenuous these security checkpoints are. This isn't a traffic stop or a security screening at the airport. Multiple national sportswriters and journalists have said they've never been asked for credentials in such a manner. It is _supposed_ to be "half-assed". If you look at the passes, they're designed so that you can just quickly flash it.The lanyard itself denotes access, notice how it is different from the lanyard that the fans have, or the media pass I linked below. It's not like a driver's license where they have to stare at it for a good minute to verify your details. For example look at this media pass. You don't need to look at the whole thing to know they have the proper credentials. Although it is quite pixelated, Masai's credentials also look quite similar.



davetcan said:


> 4. I need to take another look at the video, I was under the impression he was actually taking the credentials out, not putting them back. Not sure why they weren't around his neck the whole time.


No, when the video starts, Masai is talking to two big burly men in suits. Notice how they are in the same uniform as the guy with the earpiece? They're security. That's one of the security checkpoints you have to go through on the barricaded path. It is hard to make out but you can see Masai mess with his suit. He is putting his credentials back. Also there's a video of Masai holding his credentials in his hand as he is celebrating in the player tunnel which further supports that idea. If you're just standing there watching the game, why do you have your credentials in your hand? I don't think it is a stretch to think that it is because Masai has his credentials out because he knows that security will ask for it. 

You can clearly see the police officer looking towards that direction the entire time. He already saw Masai present his credentials. It is also not clear from the video, but at that angle, you can see the entire path leading out of the player's tunnel. Masai probably didn't think he needed to provide his credentials. If you know a police officer saw you go through a security screening once, I'm pretty sure any reasonable person would not expect for them to stop you and ask for credentials again. He also saw Masai come out of the player's tunnel where he was celebrating with other executives and members of the NBA, as well as fans chirping at him as he walked out of the player's tunnel.



davetcan said:


> Not sure why they weren't around his neck the whole time.


He's an NBA executive. None of them wear passes. This is Bob Myers, who is the GM of the Golden State Warriors in Toronto not wearing his pass. They're VIPs, you're basically expected to know who they are as arena staff. And he just won a championship. People are about to take a bunch of pictures and videos. I don't think anyone would want that hanging around their necks, nor would it be something that comes to mind. But he is a NBA executive, he probably understands the norms better than you or I.



davetcan said:


> Welcome to the Forum.


Cheers


----------



## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

New member, a handful of extremely long winded posts. 

Agenda? Ya think?

I wonder if he just sits around searching for threads in random forums that he can chime in on...without any real interest in the forum itself.


----------



## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

JBFairthorne said:


> New member, a handful of extremely long winded posts.
> 
> Agenda? Ya think?
> 
> I wonder if he just sits around searching for threads in random forums that he can chime in on...without any real interest in the forum itself.


Nah, just irritated.

I just finished reading Malcolm Gladwell's most recent book "Talking to Strangers" last night. A section of it discusses ugly police confrontations and the procedural origins. I also followed up on the implicit stereotyping research of 2 decades back that sprang up in the wake of the Amadou Diallo killing by NY police. Police are often encouraged to aggressively confront, in an effort to both assert pre-emptive control over the situation, as well as throw "suspicious" individuals off such that they reveal things about themselves they might have reason to hide. But what makes someone appear "suspicious" or "clean"? The suggestion from research, and certainly corroborated by the experience of many, is that police are more likely,and quicker, to perceive persons of colour as "potential threat" or otherwise suspicious. It's not "racially motivated" in the sense of deliberate conscious action against an identifiable group. It's really more of a snap judgment, informed by unconscious associations that bias perceptions, of "Hey, that (kind of) person is not supposed to be there / be doing that!". One of those 300msec "right or wrong" decisions, made with minimal consideration; what Dan Kahneman classifies as Type 1 thinking, in his book "Thinking Fast and Slow". Coupled with the aggressive approach police are often encouraged to adopt, it can easily elicit a frustrated and sometimes equally aggressive response from their counterpart who understandably react strongly to the implied accusation of wrongdoing that seems to come across from the officer's demeanor. We ALL get annoyed when we believe/know in our heart of hearts that we're not doing anything wrong and someone steps up and says "What the f*** do you think YOU'RE doing?". Implied accusations are rarely received kindly.

Gladwell details the stopping and arrest of Sandra Bland ( Death of Sandra Bland - Wikipedia ), and goes through the transcript of the police-cam footage and court transcript, noting step by step all the opportunities the officer had to defuse the situation but had neglected, in service of maintaining the strategy of assert-power-so-you-can-rattle-them-and-maintain-control that he had been trained to use. We've seen an abundance of such police behaviour this summer, and the Ujiri incident simply goes on the mounting stack Once in a while police are completely right in applying such strategies with truly nasty people. The trouble is that the public is getting damn tired of being treated like yet another scratch-n-win ticket to be abused and tossed away, while police search for the one-in-10,000 that _might_ be a winner. There needs to be a rethinking of the relationship between police and the public.


----------



## Hammerhands (Dec 19, 2016)

Another thing they mentioned in one of the videos was that he was being escorted by a security detail.


JBFairthorne said:


> I wonder if he just sits around searching for threads in random forums that he can chime in on...without any real interest in the forum itself.


I assumed he was paid.


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Hammerhands said:


> Another thing they mentioned in one of the videos was that he was being escorted by a security detail.


Maybe after the altercation.


----------



## trace (Aug 21, 2020)

Nah. Like the other poster said, I was just annoyed. I'm sure that if you saw a misguided comment about guitars on another forum, you would feel the need to reply. I do find it interesting however, that some have chosen to criticize my intentions rather than the substance of my comments. And lol, the mod demanded receipts so I went a bit more in detail (maybe I digressed a little), and you're going to use that to flip it on me? Okay dude.

I've been lurking this forum for a while now since I'm in the market for a new guitar. I'm in a great place financially (probably from all that agenda pushing), so I want to splurge and upgrade my setup. This forum is a good resource because it exposes me to a variety of guitars I don't know about or have overlooked. I do have a genuine interest in guitars, I just have nothing of value to add atm. I'm still learning. This forum is great for soaking up experience.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Welcome to the forum trace.
Happy hunting!


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Cop was wrong.

Don't know what motivated him but I suspect he's power-trippin' more than anything else. I expect that's the case in most of these types of confrontations.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Just to confirm, this is a thread of mostly white people trying to decide if something was racist?

If that question gets your back up, ask yourself why.


----------



## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Budda said:


> Just to confirm, this is a thread of mostly white people trying to decide if something was racist?
> 
> If that question gets your back up, ask yourself why.


Are we mostly white people?


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

zztomato said:


> Are we mostly white people?


I believe that's what my question is.


----------



## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Budda said:


> I believe that's what my question is.


Well, probably. My customer base is fairly diverse so I guess I just hope that GC's membership is also diverse. 
I'm comfortable calling out something as rasict.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Budda said:


> Just to confirm, this is a thread of mostly white people trying to decide if something was racist?
> 
> If that question gets your back up, ask yourself why.


Why shouldn’t white people have an opinion on racism, or can they just only be accused of it? And if they can’t have an opinion on it, how can they ever defend or explain themselves?
similarly, maybe NONE of us, black or white, should be commenting on events in the US, since their racial issues are so different from those in Canada....yet, here we are. dialogue is good, everyone should have a seat at the table, black, white, millennial, boomer, and everyone in between.

its funny to me that whites are told they cant understand what it’s like to be black, yet blacks seem to think they have complete insight into what it’s like to be white.

fwiw, we aren’t trying to decide what’s racist, we’re discussing the appropriateness of race even being brought into the discussion....or is the answer always “...because a black person said so”?
arent people sometimes just plain old assholes, even if it’s a confrontation between a black and white person?


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

There's a lot to unpack in that post, fyi.

If you are trying to determine if race needs to be brought into the discussion, then it seems to me that you are definitely trying to decide if something is racist. Why else would race be mentioned?

If you think race issues are different in the US and Canada, you need to educate yourself on the history of both countries and their ongoing problems.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Budda said:


> If you think race issues are different in the US and Canada, you need to educate yourself on the history of both countries and their ongoing problems.


actually, I dont think I need to educate myself on the history at all, because I know the history of both countries, racially, differs widely, with more differences than similarities, going right back to the days of slavery.
But history really is irrelevant...we don’t still hate Germans or Japanese or Italians for WW2, do we? We move on. Equality today should be the focus.

you aren’t really talking about educating, you’re talking about indoctrination into a very biased belief system founded on division.

but again, I’m not convinced that every single incident between a Black and white person that the media latches onto, is at its roots, a racist one. That presumption is ridiculous. Many whites have been victims of crime by blacks, without saying they were motivated by hate, yet it’s equally plausible.
the name “Karen” has been applied to a white person who is paranoid of blacks, perhaps we need a “fun“ name for a black person that calls out every single incident with a white person, as racist....“woke” doesn’t seem quite right.

q: are there whites that hate blacks?
q2: are there blacks that hate whites?

A/A2: Yes. That’s why we need more dialogue all around. Most people on both sides are good. It’s those fringe groups that we all need to work with....but I don’t think this generation has the capacity for that.

for the most part, whites don’t give a shit about race. We’re trying really hard to get over that.
we go to NBA games, we buy hip hop music, we use urban slang and clothing styles, we elected a black president. But we still get kicked in the balls when we don’t support some dodgy political group that screams racism when a known felon gets shot while resisting arrest, as happens with all races, and have to watch the senseless destruction of our towns in peaceful protests due to irresponsible journalism and opportistic alt political groups.


----------



## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

Diablo said:


> its funny to me that whites are told they cant understand what it’s like to be black, yet blacks seem to think they have complete insight into what it’s like to be white.


Well let's see, what is it like to be white in this world? Firstly, you'd be the least likely group to experience any kind of discrimination based on your skin colour. You are almost guaranteed to have your rights respected by both society and law enforcement. You are the least likely to be presumed guilty. You enjoy privileges above all other races. I'm not making this up.
You are also NOT going to be shot 7 times in the back at close range for merely walking away from law enforcement. 
I've talked with a good friend of mine who lives in my well educated, socially enlightened neighborhood- she is black- and she is treated differently than I am in everyday life. It's nothing too serious but still, it's palpable.
If I was a black person, I would be so fed up with being treated as "other people, less than, not quite right, maybe slightly criminal, dodgy, maybe in a gang, maybe carrying a weapon, or at the very least not on the same page (white page) as the rest of us. 

Don't feel like you are being singled out for being white. There's no down side to being white, none that I've ever experienced. And not compared to any other race. 

It's already quite evident in this thread that people don't get it. People condemn the whole movement because of a few. And yet the vandalism and violence are just an obvious byproduct of a huge segment of society that has been poorly treated for generations. In my mind it's completely understandable. 

Sorry for the rant but I think there is a lot of "us and them" in these discussions and that is problem number 1.


----------



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

zztomato said:


> Well let's see, what is it like to be white in this world? Firstly, you'd be the least likely group to experience any kind of discrimination based on your skin colour. You are almost guaranteed to have your rights respected by both society and law enforcement. You are the least likely to be presumed guilty. You enjoy privileges above all other races. I'm not making this up.
> You are also NOT going to be shot 7 times in the back at close range for merely walking away from law enforcement.
> I've talked with a good friend of mine who lives in my well educated, socially enlightened neighborhood- she is black- and she is treated differently than I am in everyday life. It's nothing too serious but still, it's palpable.
> If I was a black person, I would be so fed up with being treated as "other people, less than, not quite right, maybe slightly criminal, dodgy, maybe in a gang, maybe carrying a weapon, or at the very least not on the same page (white page) as the rest of us.
> ...


Don’t apologize for the “rant”, esp in light of my earlier rants . It’s a good thing.
i don’t completely agree, but it’s good to hear alternative viewpoints.

i just think the perceived advantages of being white are not as great as others think it is, and sometimes it’s a little offensive...the notion that “you only achieved what you have because of your the privilege of your skin colour“. May as well tell someone “you’re dumber than me, but you’re luckier”.

i also don’t think it’s as universal...I think whites with more ”ethnic” names can be subject to racism from others as well, compared to those with WASPy names. send out a resume with a european name with lots of consonants and few vowels, and you‘ll see. Trust me.

and those privileges disappear when you go into non-white situations, ie where being white is the minority, and whites are considered weaker, dumber, easier to take advantage of.

i think context is a big part of the issue...poor people, black, white, other, are treated worse and looked at worse than others. it’s more than simply race.
i actually have 0% chance of getting shot by a cop....because I’m not stupid enough to “simply walk away from law enforcement” when being questioned/under suspicion. I highly recommend people of all races to make the same choice. When a cop is arresting you, your cooperation is not optional. People of all races need to be smarter that way and increase their own odds. If BLM really cared about black lives, they’d give practical guidance to their followers about interacting with law enforcement.


----------



## zztomato (Nov 19, 2010)

@Diablo , you make some points that are certainly worth discussion but they detract in many ways to the current topic and the BLM movement. I feel that black people continuously get a raw deal in society. Sadly there has been little change and in some respects things are worsening. 
I will bow out of further discussion due to politics but I think it is incumbent on all of us to find solutions rather than excuses. 
It's a good discussion but probably best when you can see the other people in the room.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

I watched Larry Elder's documentary last month. Uncle Tom Film
Well worth watching.

_"I think that the most hated person in America is a black conservative and that's because we refute the entire philosophy of the democratic party." _


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Diablo said:


> actually, I dont think I need to educate myself on the history at all...
> 
> But history really is irrelevant.
> 
> ...


Again, so much to unpack here. There is a lot you clearly don't know. As a black man, it is not my job to educate you. 

History is never irrelevant. Why you would claim that is beyond me. History upholds systemic racism and oppression. That is why a lot of history is whitewashed or simply not taught in various education systems.

"Whites don't give a shit about race" is the most factually incorrect statement I have read outside of guitar discussion on this site. It is so incredibly wrong, I am surprised you tossed it in as casually as you did. Every day systemic oppression is upheld in Canada. But you said history is irrelevant.

New question:

What was the point of this thread? Did it educate any white members about racism and what they need to do about it? Did it bring any resources on what members can do in their communities to help fight systemic racism in their daily lives? 

Or was it just a place for a mostly white group of guys to faux debate racism in sports with no accountability to call it out in real life?

Remember I said "if this question gets your back up, ask yourself why".

At no point did I accuse any participating member of being racist.


----------



## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Budda said:


> What was the point of this thread?












One of sixteen participants said no.
Three quarters said yes.

To further discuss/debate the current societal situation that's happening outside of this particular incident should be in the political forum. IMO


----------



## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

It's been pretty cordial so far but it's walking a fine line.


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Am I the only one here who thinks that minorities are kinda asking for it?


----------



## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Regardless, I don't think white people should have an opinion about these kind of things.


----------



## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Budda said:


> Again, so much to unpack here. There is a lot you clearly don't know._* As a black man*_, it is not my job to educate you.


Your black? 🆒


----------



## allthumbs56 (Jul 24, 2006)

Back to the original question. The deputy works security at the home arena for the Golden State Warriors. I'd say he's pretty used to having tall, well dressed black men around and if has an issue with them then perhaps this would have surfaced a hundred other times.

My best guess? The deputy was a big fan of the Warriors and just watched his home team lose at home.

Would a racist seek out employment working for a team of 30+ 7' black professional athletes? I don't think so. I'm more inclined to think that the guy scored a dream court-side job for the big game in hopes of seeing his heroes win - and they lost.


----------

