# Binding Question



## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

Replacing my truss rod has gone extremely well so far. I have the rosewood fretboard glued back into place and everything looks great. I ordered ABS binding in white and black strips to replace the old binding that was on the neck and to match the rest of the guitar.

One layer of white followed by one layer of black will do it, however it will be ever so slightly wider than the neck in some places when finished. With wood, you can just sand it down until it's flush with the neck, but how do you it with ABS and still maintain the glossy finish?


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## martyb1 (Aug 5, 2007)

Are the frets still in the fretboard?


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

if its just abs, would it not be of the same material throughout- so if you sanded it, could you not just use progressively finer grits, and then buff or polish the gloss back into it?
please understand, definately more a question than any form of advice:smile:


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

martyb1 said:


> Are the frets still in the fretboard?


The frets are out at the moment. New frets will be installed and overlap the binding as it did originally.


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

fraser said:


> if its just abs, would it not be of the same material throughout- so if you sanded it, could you not just use progressively finer grits, and then buff or polish the gloss back into it?
> please understand, definitely more a question than any form of advice:smile:


Questions are a good thing. Sanding the ABS down is not a problem. I experimented with some test pieces and it works fine. Using progressively finer sandpaper produces a smooth surface, but once installed, the finish will be dull in the places that need to be sanded. 

So maybe the question is what to use to get the gloss back into it. 

My preference is to use the ABS, but if I'm not 100% sure that I'll get the finish I want, I'd rather switch to a wood binding.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

LOL funny memories. I was talking to day of my grade school wood shop teacher. The relevance to this being we did do some acrylics in his class and the final polish we used was toothpaste.

There is also two sides to your question I think, a front and a back. Can you not sand the back of the ABS instead?


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

keeperofthegood said:


> LOL funny memories. I was talking to day of my grade school wood shop teacher. The relevance to this being we did do some acrylics in his class and the final polish we used was toothpaste


I did read that wet sanding is preferred over dry sanding for finishing. I also read a combination of toothpaste and baking soda can do the trick as well so it's interesting you mentioned it. I'll have to try it. There also seems to be some plastic polishes. Unfortunately, I can't find any info specific to this issue. 



> There is also two sides to your question I think, a front and a back. Can you not sand the back of the ABS instead?


Theoretically you could I guess, but I want the binding to be perfectly flush with the neck all the way around, and the only way I can see doing that sanding from the outside. This would be a no-brainer if I was building a neck from scratch, but this is a rebind of a 40+ year old guitar made in Japan. Nothing is perfect on this thing.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Yes, I have read a lot on here about Japan and Instruments in general. Once they get the idea and have quality control that works things get good, but before that gets put into place...

Another thought, is ABS not heat reactive? A heat gun for a moment or two may also gloss it? I don't know, you would have to give that a shot  ** EDIT OR SHRINK IT OMG >,< so a scrap small piece to test on, and measure the size before and after!


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

I've been playing around a bit with some samples and I'm thinking of doing the following:

1) Glue on a layer of black then a layer of white. The white binding seems to show less when scraping and/or sanding.

2) Scrape and/or sand even with the neck. Wet sand to an almost finished state.

3) Install the dot markers.

4) Final wet sanding.

5) Tape up the whole neck leaving the binding exposed and spray with a clear coat for plastic.

The rest of the neck has a high gloss finish anyway, so it should blend in nicely. I won't start step #2 until the work on the fretboard is complete and taped up. 

Sound like a plan?


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

*Binding's Done!*

There's no question that rebinding an old instrument is a daunting task, but with some patience, it can be done. Here are some pics of my progress:

Binding installation:










After scraping:










Finished and ready for frets:



















There's a couple of things that I've learned so far if I ever had a need to do this again;

1) Scrape less and sand more. This insures that you can get a smooth finish on the binding, especially if there's a thin spot. 

2) Refinish the whole neck. You don't have to worry about avoiding sanding marks on the neck and and it's much easier to clean up the glue residue. 

3) I worked my way up various grades of dry sandpaper. I did a final wet sanding using pure lemon oil and 600 grit sandpaper. I applied 3 coats this way. The binding and fret inlays buffed up beautifully so my plan to use a clear coat is unnecessary. 

I'm extremely happy so far and looking forward to getting the frets and nut installed.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Looks good. Are you using a cabinet scraper or razor blade?


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

Thanks. I used a wallpaper scraper I picked up at Home Depot.


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

Fajah said:


> Thanks. I used a wallpaper scraper I picked up at Home Depot.


Here's a shot of it:


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

No wonder you had a hard time. 

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&cat=1,310&p=41069

They are tricky to learn how to sharpen ( you need to burnish them) but worth the time investment. 

I can't live without them.


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> No wonder you had a hard time.
> 
> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&cat=1,310&p=41069
> 
> ...


Nice stuff and thanks for the link. If I did this on a regular basis, I would certainly invest what you suggested. I actually didn't have a hard time scraping it down. I was more concerned about the finish of the ABS when all was said and done. The whole process in replacing the truss rod has been tedious, but easier than I expected. On old guitars like this you find all sorts of things and have to adjust and experiment along the way. All part of the learning process I guess.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

I have avoided binding any of the guitars I have built. Tedious is not something I look forward to. I have nothing but admiration for all the binding that MartyB does. 

The thing with those scrapers is that when sharp they leave a surface that is probably equal to 400 grit sandpaper.


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

I'm with you on that. If I can avoid tedious, I certainly would. Based on this experience, I would say that it's definitely easier to install binding on a new build since you can route consistently measured channels and plan for the thickness and type of binding you're going to use ahead of time. But now that I've done it, I would consider binding if I were to build a guitar or bass from scratch. I don't see that happening in the foreseeable future. I give guys like yourself tons of credit for building your own instruments either for yourself or others....and helping out guys like me 

I thought long and hard about taking on this project. On one hand, I was afraid I was going to ruin it even though I'm confidant in my skills. On the other hand, I got this guitar to play so nicely last year, but I couldn't get any more out of the truss rod. So it was either stare at it in my rack, or take the plunge and fix it. This happens to be the first electric guitar I've ever owned. My parents bought it for me 40 years ago and it was used back then. It has a huge amount of sentimental value but certainly not worth paying the big bucks for a "professional" fix.

I assumed that those scrapers would produce a nice clean surface as you mentioned. What I used tends to grab if you put too much pressure.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

Fajah said:


> I I give guys like yourself tons of credit for building your own instruments either for yourself or others....and helping out guys like me
> 
> 
> I assumed that those scrapers would produce a nice clean surface as you mentioned. What I used tends to grab if you put too much pressure.


It's a natural progression for me as a woodworker. Also I don't have $3600 to give L&M for a Les Paul so for less than $300 I have a Les Pat .... GAS with a little sweat works for me. 

As far as those scrapers they do a nice job when sharp. I love sanding burls and funky grains then taking a scraper to them. It makes them really stand out.


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## Lowtones (Mar 21, 2006)

Go to lee valley and get yourself a wood scraper. As on wood it will leave a very smooth clean finish and is quicker and cleaner than sand paper.


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