# What key is this in?



## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

After playing guitar off and on for 40 years I've decided to try my hand at writing a song. I have a chord progression but I want to write down the music so others can play it. I also want to try developing a lead for it. I played a bit at a jam last week and a trumpet and sax were playing some background stuff. It sounded great. When I asked them what key they were playing they had no clue. Any way here's the progression:

Am|B7|C|D
Am|B7|C|D
Am|B7|C|D
Am|B7|C|D
G|F|G|F|G|F|G|F|F|Em

What scale would I use to play lead and what key signature would i use to write out the music?

Thanks in advance. I learned theory forty years ago and suddenly realize how rusty my knowledge is. Too many years of playing 12 bar blues.


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## Hamstrung (Sep 21, 2007)

Hope this is helpful...


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Looking at it, I would likely start with a scale of Am. In the process, you've probably "borrowed" chords from the parallel key of A, which would explain the D instead of Dm etc. Don't look to me for a definitive answer though.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Thanks for the chart. I have that chart. The closest key would G or Em but neither has a B7 chord. I've tried playing lead in several different G and E scales and none sound right to my ear. My next choice is Am or C but playing lead in those keys doesn't sound right either. Bdim is close to the sound of B7 but Dm instead of D totally takes away the feel of the song. It has kind of a bouncy jazz beat. At the jam a singer was singing some scat in a really deep Louis Armstrong voice. That sounded really cool but again he had no idea what key. Maybe I just have to forget about the key and just come up with some lead by going with what sounds right. I'd still like to write out the notation though. I guess I could use C with a D# and F# specified for the B7. and the F# for the D.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

My swag is that it is in the key of A Dorian (written out in the key G). Although written out in G, A dorian does not sound like the key of G.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

Kerry Brown said:


> Thanks for the chart. I have that chart. The closest key would G or Em but neither has a B7 chord. I've tried playing lead in several different G and E scales and none sound right to my ear. My next choice is Am or C but playing lead in those keys doesn't sound right either. Bdim is close to the sound of B7 but Dm instead of D totally takes away the feel of the song. It has kind of a bouncy jazz beat. At the jam a singer was singing some scat in a really deep Louis Armstrong voice. That sounded really cool but again he had no idea what key. Maybe I just have to forget about the key and just come up with some lead by going with what sounds right. I'd still like to write out the notation though. I guess I could use C with a D# and F# specified for the B7. and the F# for the D.


Actually, E minor does commonly use a B7 chord. That's why harmonic and melodic minor scales were created - to incorporate a leading tone in the key, which is used in the V7 chord.

You may have to face up to the possibility that you can't use just one scale to play lines over this progression.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Kerry Brown said:


> Thanks for the chart. I have that chart. The closest key would G or Em but neither has a B7 chord. I've tried playing lead in several different G and E scales and none sound right to my ear. My next choice is Am or C but playing lead in those keys doesn't sound right either. Bdim is close to the sound of B7 but Dm instead of D totally takes away the feel of the song. It has kind of a bouncy jazz beat. At the jam a singer was singing some scat in a really deep Louis Armstrong voice. That sounded really cool but again he had no idea what key. Maybe I just have to forget about the key and just come up with some lead by going with what sounds right. I'd still like to write out the notation though. I guess I could use C with a D# and F# specified for the B7. and the F# for the D.


E minor would have been my first guess - there is (or at least can be) a B7 in E minor. I would try the E minor harmonic scale: e, f#, g, a, b, c, d#, e

Hope that helps.

Edit: Merlin beat me to it. And yes, you may need to use more than one scale.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

The only problem with it being in Em is that it's extremely unusual to have the I chord appear so seldom. The I chord is your area of stability. To spend so little time in stability would give the entire progression a feeling of tension. My 2c, and I would be fortunate if it was worth even that much.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Thanks everyone. I've got an idea where to go now. I had no idea writing a song could be this much fun. Looks like I wasted 40 years


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

JBFairthorne said:


> The only problem with it being in Em is that it's extremely unusual to have the I chord appear so seldom. The I chord is your area of stability. To spend so little time in stability would give the entire progression a feeling of tension. My 2c, and I would be fortunate if it was worth even that much.


I would agree, but it does resolve to Em. The joy of music! 

It would be much easier if we could hear the melody.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

Hi Kerry,

Just fooling around with the chords and A dorian and it works well. E Phrygian scales (minor) will work as well. My theory knowledge is very limited but i'm fairly confident it is in A dorian


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Agreed, ultimately the melody will tell you everything you need to know. Is the A dorian the Am? I noticed the b3 and b7.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Hah! writing out the melody means I have to be able to know what notes I'm singing. My ear is nowhere near that good and my voice is probably off key anyway.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Play the melody on guitar, then figure out what notes they are.


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## Alex (Feb 11, 2006)

JBFairthorne said:


> Agreed, ultimately the melody will tell you everything you need to know. Is the A dorian the Am? I noticed the b3 and b7.


A Dorian is a relative of the Key of G but has a minorish sound. I bought the Modes No more mysteries on VHS over 16 years ago and thanks to youtube, it is available. Check out the link starting at the 8;45 mark. That was a light bulb moment for me.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

I looked it up, the difference between them is the b6 (in the natural minor).


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Was trying to write out a tab and I realized I had the first part wrong, It's in 4/4 time with two chords per bar. 

|Am B7|C D|Am B7|C D|Am B7|C D|Am B7|C D|

The beat is "One Two and Three Four and" with one and three being the root note of the chords. The second part the chords are just strummed once on the One.

I'm really rusty at this but having fun trying to remember. Thanks for all your patience.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

Thank goodness you posted this thread. Otherwise, wtf else were we going to argue about? lol


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Alex Dann said:


> A Dorian is a relative of the Key of G but has a minorish sound. I bought the Modes No more mysteries on VHS over 16 years ago and thanks to youtube, it is available. Check out the link starting at the 8;45 mark. That was a light bulb moment for me.


Thank you for that. It is starting to make sense.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

JBFairthorne said:


> Play the melody on guitar, then figure out what notes they are.


Of course, once you can play the melody on the guitar, you are well on your way to having a good solo...


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

Alex Dann said:


> Hi Kerry,
> 
> Just fooling around with the chords and A dorian and it works well. E Phrygian scales (minor) will work as well. My theory knowledge is very limited but i'm fairly confident it is in A dorian


The G/F/Em part of the progression definitely suggests a phrygian influence.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

I haven't read the entire thread but two major chords one step away scream 4th and 5th degrees of the major scale so the first 4 bars are in G major (although I would use E melodic minor during the B7 for a touch). The last part is in C major, maybe C Lydian (G major) by the end... Hoping to be of some help.

BTW, I would enjoy a few lessons on the 12 bar blues...


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

amagras said:


> I haven't read the entire thread but two major chords one step away scream 4th and 5th degrees of the major scale so the first 4 bars are in G major (although I would use E melodic minor during the B7 for a touch). The last part is in C major, maybe C Lydian (G major) by the end... Hoping to be of some help.
> 
> BTW, I would enjoy a few lessons on the 12 bar blues...


Been playing the blues for 40 years and I still suck and still learn new stuff from every new person I play with.


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## JHarasym (Mar 27, 2007)

What about starting with chord tones over each chord, and trying different fill notes to see which sound good? 
Knowing "the key" may matter less.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Haven't a lot of time to get back to this. A dorian is sounding pretty good in the little time I had. Trying to work out some lyrics and the melody right now. Once I have that a solo should be easier.


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