# Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the "One"



## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm diving head first into the realm of DIY Stompboxes!!! The thought of this actually makes me giddy. :sFun_cheerleader2:

I've got my little workspace set-up with all the required tools. The only thing I'm missing is the project. I simply don't know where to start. I would like my first pedal to not be too easy or too complex and to compliment my current set-up.

I have my Epi LP Custom through a Marshall VS-100 and a MX-R Super Badass Distortion. I'm not sure wether to go the Metal route or a RAT clone.

Any input would be appreciated.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

A Rat is a fairly complex build for a beginner, I would say. When you say 'Metal' are you talking a specific pedal?

Are you working with perf board, strip board, or etching your own board?

I have a paper library of perfboard layouts for most of the common fuzz and dirt boxes, in case there's anything you can't find on the internet. A couple I like are a specific 'hi gain' Tonebender layout I have, and any variety of Big Muff - you can mod the BM circuit to do a lot of different things.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I generally recommend beginners to make a loop-selector. Yes, it doesn't sound particularly glamourous but:
1) There is little chasing down parts, and no parts to select for, burn out, or install backwards;
2) The machining is pretty straightforward;
3) Unless you totally screw up the wiring (which would also imply you weren't yet ready for anything of greater complexity) it will work;
4) Tastes in distortion change regularly, but a loop selector will always be useful to you;
5) Loop selectors will often sidestep the urge people have to true-bypass the bejeezus out of everything that moves.

You will need:
a) A suitable box (Mammoth electronics has lots of good choices. A Hammond 1590BB is a decent size for a dual-loop selector.
b) *Six* decent mono phone jacks (stereo will work too, but you want to stay away from anything where you might accidentally confuse contacts).
c) *Two *3PDT stompswitches (they are all of comparable quality; but ALL will need careful attention to cleaning the solder lugs and not overheating)
d) *Two *LEDs of your choice (mounting bezels/clips are optional), preferably of different colour but identical brightness.
e) *Two* resistors in the range of 4k7 to 15k (brighter LEDs will want higher-value resistors to keep from blinding yourself)
f) One DC jack for applying power

You can get all of this from Tayda Electronics or from Small Bear Electronics. Tayda is based in Thailand and I have had decent service from them. Small Bear is owned by a friend of mine and based in Brooklyn. Tayda will probably have better prices on many things, but you'll likely have to wait 3 weeks or more for delivery. Small Bear will get it to you pronto, and probably have many other things you want to order.

Alternatively, go to the Build Your Own Clone (BYOC) site and order a complete kit from them. Their assembly instructions are decent, and the kits are decent quality.

There is any number of instructions on-line on how to make a loop-selector. I will also recommend you join the diystompbox forum. Tens of thousands of members who will gladly help you out. I'll see you there! :congratulatory:


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

No specific pedal in mind, I'm completely open to suggestions as I would like the pedal to be somewhat versatile.

I'm not sure about the board, open to suggestions, although I would want something easy to work with the first time around.

I like the idea (and look) of the Big Muff with circuit board mod capabilities. Which would you recommend to start with? I'm not looking for a specific heavy sound, this more of a "just for fun" get my feet wet project to familiarize myself with building pedals.


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

mhammer said:


> I generally recommend beginners to make a loop-selector. Yes, it doesn't sound particularly glamourous but:
> 1) There is little chasing down parts, and no parts to select for, burn out, or install backwards;
> 2) The machining is pretty straightforward;
> 3) Unless you totally screw up the wiring (which would also imply you weren't yet ready for anything of greater complexity) it will work;
> ...


I've actually registered there recently, although I searched, I didn't want to double post. 

Good idea on the loop. I would still like to build an effect pedal first, although I didn't realize it would be simple to make a loop pedal.

Thanks for the BYOC site, wasn't aware of that site.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

BYOC is how I started - a buddy and I went in on a sale they had and bought 5 kits. You pay a bit more than sourcing yourself BUT a) you only get what you need (not packages of 10 or whatever little parts you might not ever use) b) their instructions (printable pdf) are step by step and great c) their forums are active and, if you have any issues, they have many members who will look at pics of your build and make suggestions.

Kits are a great entry level way to get your feet wet. I learned a lot about what parts do what jobs, how to identify different parts, how parts go together. Also, it made me sharpen up my soldering skills rather dramatically.

If you don't really know what you're doing, it's a great place to start. They have kits of dozens of different types of pedals - though with their naming, you might have to do some reading to figure out what's what. Their RAT clone is called 'Mouse', it would be much easier doing it with a kit rather than blindly trying to source all the parts and do it on your own. Everyone should have a RAT though  Their Big Muff is the Large Beaver, which can be built to several different specs....I built mine to Ram's Head specs, and it was great.

If you're going to not go that route, Mark's suggestion above for a bypass/loop box is good - I built mine after I knew what I was doing, but I still used the BYOC layout and instructions just not their kit. Or a lot of people start out with a simple fuzz, like a Fuzz Face - low parts count, hard to build it wrong. A personal favourite is the Bosstone, via the layout from General Guitar Gadgets http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/effects-projects/fuzz-tones/jordan-bosstone/ At low drive, it's an overdrive, halfway up it's a distortion, and full out it's a raging fuzz. Not a big parts count. It can be somewhat bright but you can change the output capacitors to change it, give it more oomph and bottom end.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*

I can't begin to tell you just how many eager beavers I've seen who attempt something fancy for their first DIY build and end up getting bogged down in troubleshooting it. That's a real morale-destroyer. I think it far better to attempt something simple but useful, that WORKS FIRST TIME. You want something that you can make over a weekend and then enjoy, not something that takes a couple of months until it gets off the ground.

Once you have this under your belt, I'll be happy to nurse you through an MXR Distortion+ / DOD250 derivative. That's a nice basic circuit that uses readily available parts, and makes a very useful platform for learning about mods and what parts do what. Once you move on to that level, I can recommend DIPMICRO in Niagara Falls. They don't have everything, but they carry lots of what you'll use up, have ridiculously low prices, and speedy delivery. I honestly don't know how they do it.

- - - Updated - - -

Keto,

We have it on good authority that the recent EHX "Satisfaction" fuzz is in fact a clone of the Bosstone.


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*

Thanks keto and mhammer!

I think I'll follow both of your advice but start with the loop-selector but will also need a second pedal to switch to, from and combine even!

mhammer, is that really all that's included in that loop-selector? No perf board or any other components required? Or are you assuming I have the wire and board to connect each one of these? Do you have a schematic?

edit: 
Having issues finding the right resistors on the small bear website. I'm going with the high-brightness LED's


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*

Well, you need some wire and some solder, but that's the complete list...which is why I recommend it.

"High" brightness will probably be fine with 10k resistors, and you can't get a resistor value more standard than 10k! Small Bear ought to have individual resistors, or at least small quantities. Steve just converted the web storefront within the last 2 months and they are probably still working bugs out of it. Pop them an e-mail and ask if they sell resistors in small quantities or only sell "kits" now.

Worstcase scenario, you shold be able to score a couple of 10k resistors in town, _somewhere_.


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*

Okay good to know. I can pick some up here. I work close to an electronics supply place. 

The thing is that I want to be able to put that loop pedal to work! I'd be curious to know more about that MX-R Distortion + clone you were mentioning.

Keto, I'd be interested in hearing how your Big Muff clone sounds as well, not that much out there on the interwebs.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*

I've built about 2 dozen Big Muffs, you can vary the tone stack, the output, the clipping diodes, you can make all sorts of changes in the circuit and make them sound differently - crispy, round, fat, thin, vintage, modern, however you want to describe it you can probably do it.

The BYOC kit, you can build to several different specs. I built it to Ram's Head, which is fat and warm, not as crispy on the top end or as square wave as a modern Big Muff or even a vintage Triangle (which you can also make with the BYOC kit).


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*



keto said:


> I've built about 2 dozen Big Muffs, you can vary the tone stack, the output, the clipping diodes, you can make all sorts of changes in the circuit and make them sound differently - crispy, round, fat, thin, vintage, modern, however you want to describe it you can probably do it.
> 
> The BYOC kit, you can build to several different specs. I built it to Ram's Head, which is fat and warm, not as crispy on the top end or as square wave as a modern Big Muff or even a vintage Triangle (which you can also make with the BYOC kit).


Perfect!!! That to me would be the perfect pedal to start with. It will give me something to play with and adjust as needed. I plan on getting a bread board to test the various effects as I'm putting them together before soldering them to the actual board.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*

I will recommend getting yourself a couple of these: http://www.dipmicro.com/store/HDR40X1FM

These machined sockets can be neatly snapped off in whatever lengths you want. Myself, I use them as my source for higher-quality IC sockets. But you can also break off one at a time and use them as sockets for other kinds of components too. One of the things you'll see among the many various issues of the BMP, and assorted mods, is the changes in the value of the emitter and collector resistors for the various clipping stages. Not at all unreasonable to install socket-pins where the resistors go, instead of soldering those resistors directly, and use them to experiment with different resistor values.

Dipmicro is a nice cheap source for resistors: http://www.dipmicro.com/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=683 Ten bucks will get you a nice assortment of values in metal film (1% tolerance). Alternatively, Velleman sells a "variety pack" that you can buy through Small Bear, or Active Electronics on KIng Edward St. E in Winnipeg. Probably a little more expensive for what you get, and they are 5% tolerance carbon film, but they save you the trouble of second guessing what values make up a useful assortment.


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*



mhammer;589823[B said:


> ]I will recommend getting yourself a couple of these: http://www.dipmicro.com/store/HDR40X1FM[/B]
> 
> These machined sockets can be neatly snapped off in whatever lengths you want. Myself, I use them as my source for higher-quality IC sockets. But you can also break off one at a time and use them as sockets for other kinds of components too. One of the things you'll see among the many various issues of the BMP, and assorted mods, is the changes in the value of the emitter and collector resistors for the various clipping stages. Not at all unreasonable to install socket-pins where the resistors go, instead of soldering those resistors directly, and use them to experiment with different resistor values.
> 
> Dipmicro is a nice cheap source for resistors: http://www.dipmicro.com/store/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=683 Ten bucks will get you a nice assortment of values in metal film (1% tolerance). Alternatively, Velleman sells a "variety pack" that you can buy through Small Bear, or Active Electronics on KIng Edward St. E in Winnipeg. Probably a little more expensive for what you get, and they are 5% tolerance carbon film, but they save you the trouble of second guessing what values make up a useful assortment.


Sure they might be cheaper per unit but still cost less when you include the shipping. I'll stop by and have a look at what they have in stock. I've read that there isn't really a difference between the 1% and 5% resistance. What is your take on that?

Is the header for the breadboard?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*

The header is for socketing places on the PCB where you can try different component values without having to unsolder and resolder. It's like having a breadboard on the circuit board.

1% metal film is less noisey than carbon film, but not the sole determining factor in pedal noise. That said, it's always nice to know that the actual resistor value is very close to what it says on the schematic.


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*

I second the BYOC recommendation. I've done the MXR Distortion + clone and the Big Muff. Both sounded great and I still use the Muff.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*

Im in about the same spot, looking forward to my first pedal build. Also want to mod my dunlop hendrix wah as I've heard its pretty easy to mod but not sure where to start. 

A friend of mine did a tremolo build called the tremulous lune, awesome sounding trem which I'd like to do after I get some experience building a few dirt/fuzz boxes. He also built a tube screamer that sounds better than any 808 or ANY TS type ive ever heard. Something to be said about building your own pedals and tweaking them to your own tastes.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*

If you want to tinker with your wah, then you MUST begin here: http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/wahpedl/wahped.htm

This has, for years, been the definitive source on how wah pedals do what they do, and will step you through what every single component does, and what changes to each part will do.


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*

That's gold Jerry! err... Mark. 

Thanks man.


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*

I was presented with a fantastic offer I couldn't refuse from a member here so I decided to go a different route.

The funny thing is that, as mhammer will probably chuckle and expected this lol, I've run into a little conundrum and I'm not sure what to do.

I''m left with the socket transistors "kit" and I have no idea where to put them as I don't see them on the schematic. Could anyone guide me in the right direction?

Here are the photos for the schematic and the left over parts.








[/URL]Fuzz Pedal by lee demers, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/URL]Fuzz Pedal by lee demers, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/URL]Fuzz Pedal by lee demers, on Flickr[/IMG]


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &amp;quot;One&amp;quot;*

So, what are the transistors?

- - - Updated - - -

Oops. Almost forgot.....snicker, snicker.:acigar:

BTW, does your meter have a socket for testing hfe? That can be used to verify pins.


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &amp;quot;One&amp;quot;*

I've got two 2n3904, one 2n5088, two bc109c and theres also a little blue rectangular box with a white dial in the middle three prongs left over 3386cw . Also not sure where to put it.

And I'm not getting power either... should have started simple lol


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &amp;quot;One&amp;quot;*

I'm not trying to complicate mhammer's assistance...just thought these might be helpful:



























*disregard OC75*




cheers

Dave


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

No worries, I can use all the help I can get right now.

If these were not installed would it affect whether I get power or not? ( I don't think so personally but you never know)


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

I also have one of these guys,

Can't seem to load a picture with my tablet...

Here is a link to it though
http://media.digikey.com/photos/Bourns Photos/3386P SERIES.jpg


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

18Rocks said:


> I also have one of these guys,
> 
> Can't seem to load a picture with my tablet...
> 
> Here is a link to it though





















It is the trim pot.

Cheers

Dave


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

So where does it go? Is it the 25k trim that is mentioned on the diagram? 
If so there's 6 holes on there, where do the 3 prongs go?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

18Rocks said:


> No worries, I can use all the help I can get right now.
> 
> If these were not installed would it affect whether I get power or not? ( I don't think so personally but you never know)


What do you mean by "get power or not" ??

Cheers

Dave


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

Does it need to be installed for the pedal to work?
Ex: LED light to turn on?


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

18Rocks said:


> So where does it go? Is it the 25k trim that is mentioned on the diagram?
> If so there's 6 holes on there, where do the 3 prongs go?


Yes...it is the 25K trim pot.

As far as how you mount the pot, I will leave it to mhammer or someone else with more knowledge and experience to help you. Sorry that I can't help much further. I just don't want to make errors.

Cheers

Dave


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

greco said:


> Yes...it is the 25K trim pot.
> 
> As far as how you mount the pot, I will leave it to mhammer or someone else with more knowledge and experience to help you. Sorry that I can't help much further. I just don't want to make errors.
> 
> ...


No worries thanks Dave. 
It's starting to make a bit more sense now.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

18Rocks said:


> Does it need to be installed for the pedal to work?
> Ex: LED light to turn on?


Yes...you need to have a complete circuit for the pedal to function. An LED might function in a circuit without other parts functioning....it would depend on the circuit.

I am quickly getting into (electronics) water that is over my head!

Cheers

Dave


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks to Dave for filling in until I got here.

The middle pin on the trimpot is the "wiper"; that is, the moving contact (the two outside pins are fixed, and the wiper can be moved towards the one end or the other).

In this particular application, you are only interested in producing a single variable resistance, rather than altering the ratio between two resistances, which is what a volume pot does. So, technically, the middle contact (wiper) and either one of the outside contacts are all that really concern us. If the trimpot were a pot mounted on the control panel, you'd need to know which outside contact to use/wire-up, since that would determine whether clockwise rotation of a control knob produced "more" of something. But in this instance, since it will be adjusted and then left undisturbed inside the pedal, it doesn't really matter which outside contact you use. Rather, fitting the trimmer into the allotted space is the focus. It is a PCB, and there will be pads provided. The pad for one of the outside pins will be connected to the pad for the collector pin of the transistor. Make sure you've seated the trimmer in that fashion and the rest should take care of itself.

Back to the transistor orientations....

It always amazes me just how many ways there are to get a transistor installed wrong. You'd think that with only 3 pins, there would be a small finite number, but the more I'm into this stuff, the more it seems like the number of ways go into the hundreds. And when it involves FETs, you double that.

It always pays to have several different datasheets for the same transistor number on hand. By "different", I mean different manufacturers oif the same part number. The reason I say this is because they do not all necessarily use the same pinout, and because they can vary in the quality of the drawings. Some make it very easy to know which pin is which, and some much less so. I keep a few on hand just to verify. You can locate them by simply entering the part number and pdf into your search engine: e.g., "2N5088 pdf". That same search will pull out sheets from all the relevant makers.

Related to this which-pin-is-which challenge, it is a good idea to use sockets for transistors in the early days, until you have a solid feel for transistor pin location. It will make it much easier to pull the thing out, flip it around and reinsert, when you discover a misorientation issue.

Finally, if your meter allows you to measure hfe, you can use this to identify pins if you lack a datasheet. The test socket will have insertion points for the E, B, and C pins, and often an extra E insertion point, such that the socket is labelled ECBE. This will allow you to insert a transistor with EBC pin layout, or ECB layout, as well as flipping it around. Most of the transistors we use in this game will have hfe readings of somewhere between 70 and 600 or so. If the transistor is turned around wrong, or if the pin layout is different, or if it is NPN and you thought it was PNP, you will not see an hfe reading above the single digits. If you see a legitimate reading (and it *could* be a little lower or higher than you were expecting), then you have stumbled onto the correct pinout. Make a note of what pins have been inserted where, and you're in business.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> ......Rather, fitting the trimmer into the allotted space is the focus. It is a PCB, and there will be pads provided. *The pad for one of the outside pins will be connected to the pad for the collector pin of the transistor.* Make sure you've seated the trimmer in that fashion and the rest should take care of itself.



I could see this clearly on the schematic but on the PCB (pad side) pic, it is impossible (certainly for me)...maybe if a pic of the traces (on the underside of the PCB) was shown, I would have had a chance. 
However, this is an opportunity for _18rocks _to apply the schematic info to the PCB and sort out the trimmer orientation.

Thanks for your long and detailed post. I always learn from your (tutorial) posts and appreciate them very much. 

Cheers

Dave


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

My pleasure, Dave. Now back to reading a Superior Court challenge to a 2007 Budget Implementation Act. Joy!!


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

thanks for posting such a detailed reply. I will be working on the pedal a little later today and will refer back to it. 

I did have a question in the mean time, when it mentions thats C4 and C5 are optional, would I still need to put a jumper wire there to complete the circuit if I chose not to place resistors there??


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

I've also posted on another forum about this issue and some have mentioned that C2 is is backwards, meaning the positive terminal should be in the pother direction. If I base myself off of C3 it's as though they would right. Your thoughts?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

There are NPN and PNP versions of the Fuzz Face (which is what you're building). When making a PNP version, the positive side of C2 faces away from the transistor. When making the NPN version, it faces towards the base of Q1. An easy fliparound to be confused by, given how otherwise similar the circuits are.

Bottom line, the recommendation to turn C2 around is correct.

RE: C4 and C5

These capacitors roll off the top end to produce a warmer-sounding growl. If you choose not to use them, _leave that space empty, and *do not* replace it with a jumper_. Personally, I would recommend at least trying them out to see if you like the sound. Remember that the unit does ot have any tone control. So when you engage the pedal, you either better have the treble turned down on the amp, or you better like a bright-sounding fuzz and big increment to treble when you kick it in. Those caps will help in producing a fuzz tone that does not send you running for the treble control on the amp right away. They do not need to be used together. You can use just one at a time if you wish.

For trying them out, I recommend simply tacking them to the relevant pads on the back/underside of the PCB, rather than fully installing them through the holes. For that matter, just solder one lead to the board, and listen for the tone change when you push down on the other capacitor lead and make contact - the "finger toggle switch". Naturally doing this requires the circuit to be fully functional, which means you build it, without those caps, then you try it out to verify it works, then you add on the cap/s and test out the tone, and THEN you either decide to install or not.

The list of mods to the basic Fuzz Face circuit is endless. I recommend reading the Technology of the FUzz Face article at GEOFEX to explain what all those things do and why.


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

mhammer said:


> There are NPN and PNP versions of the Fuzz Face (which is what you're building). When making a PNP version, the positive side of C2 faces away from the transistor. When making the NPN version, it faces towards the base of Q1. An easy fliparound to be confused by, given how otherwise similar the circuits are.
> 
> Bottom line, the recommendation to turn C2 around is correct.
> 
> ...


It seems like they provided me with a tester of some sort for the Q1 and Q2. It's a type of base that fits nicely over the pins with thre holes as well to where you can insert the transistors.

I was wondering if the fact I would have reversed the polarization of the LED by mistake, would it affect the circuit as a whole or just whether or not the LED turns on?

I've also tested to ensure I was power tot he circuit board and I am. So I can notch that off the list. 

Edit: But I'm not getting power at the switch. So that means the power is not going from the board to the switch


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

Okay, so I've gone over absolutely every connection even soldered on the the C4 and C5 resistors and everything looks like it's in it's right place. The LED still won't turn on but when I connect it to the amp and press the foot switch I get that "pop" sound but nothing happens after (no sound comes out when connected to the guitar)

At this point, I really don't know what to do. Do I re-wire the 3PDT switch? 
Is this diagram flipped, meaning the bottom of the circuit where the soldering is done?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B59XacvmnEZPWXgxRGNjTVplTU0/view?usp=sharing


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

mhammer said:


> Now back to reading a Superior Court challenge to a 2007 Budget Implementation Act. Joy!!



Your version of "Joy" and mine are not similar at all...LOL!

Cheers

Dave


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Personally, I just wire up the board to the jacks, battery, and pots, just to verify that the thing works. Then I wire up the stomp switch.

The trick to troubleshooting is to be able to rule out whole categories of sources of failure. With all that stuff connected, everything becomes a culprit.


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

A little too late now... I'm honestly not sure what to do at this point. I've tried everything I can and know. 
It may end up in a box and not come out for while...


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

18Rocks said:


> A little too late now... I'm honestly not sure what to do at this point. I've tried everything I can and know.
> It may end up in a box and not come out for while...


Don't give up now....you might be very close to success.

Give it a bit of a rest and try again (soon)

Good Luck......seriously....not meant to be facetious 

Cheers

Dave


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

18Rocks said:


> A little too late now... I'm honestly not sure what to do at this point. I've tried everything I can and know.
> It may end up in a box and not come out for while...


Pictures. Front of board, back of board, enclosure wiring (jacks, power, etc). Problem(s) can likely be diagnosed from good pics.


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

keto said:


> Pictures. Front of board, back of board, enclosure wiring (jacks, power, etc). Problem(s) can likely be diagnosed from good pics.


I needed to step away before getting too frustrated. I've invested too much time to give up and I know I can figure it out, with a little help of course  

I'll post some good pictures of everything in the morning and I'm sure the issue will surface.


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

Okay here we go. I've taken some pictures of what the board and the connections look like. At close range it looks like I need to clkena the board a little but hopefully someone can see something I can't.

Let me know if there is anything else I could provide that would help. 

Thanks again for all your help.

1. Circuit board








[/URL]untitled0005.jpg by lee demers, on Flickr[/IMG]

2. Circuit Board Connections








[/URL]untitled0006.jpg by lee demers, on Flickr[/IMG]

3. Foot Switch








[/URL]untitled0008.jpg by lee demers, on Flickr[/IMG]

4. Foot Switch 2








[/URL]untitled0009.jpg by lee demers, on Flickr[/IMG]

5. Top of board 2








[/URL]untitled0010.jpg by lee demers, on Flickr[/IMG]


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

I see the crucial mistake, you positioned the trimmer wrong. It should be rotated 90 degrees. The way how you placed it, it's shorted and out of circuit.
Why did you put resistor in the place of jumper on the foot switch ? What's the value of it ?
For more troubleshooting, picture of whole assembly is needed. Cheers.

P.S.
Be careful with desoldering, you can easy overheat the traces on board.


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

epis said:


> I see the crucial mistake, you positioned the trimmer wrong. It should be rotated 90 degrees. The way how you placed it, it's shorted and out of circuit.
> Why did you put resistor in the place of jumper on the foot switch ? What's the value of it ?
> For more troubleshooting, picture of whole assembly is needed. Cheers.
> 
> ...


One thing is for sure, I think I've over heated the traces. I've had issues with the desoldering a couple of times. I'm assuming that means the board is toast?

Good to know about the trimmer, there wasn't any indication on the schematic on how to position it at all. 

As for the resistor in the jumper, that's what the kit came with and said to do. The resistor came in an individual bag written "jumper" on it, so that's how I installed it. 

What do you mean by whole assembly? Are you talking about the input jacks and 9v power?


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

Board doesn't look "toast", yet  If you don't have any desoldering tools, here is a tip :
You'll need to pry the trimmer, use small jeweler's screwdriver or something similar, heat two legs at the same time, when the solder is liquidy, pry it gently.
Do the same on the other side. Repeat it if needed. You must do it quick.These double sided pcbs are the bitch to work without proper tools.
If you toasted it, you can always add a piece of jumper wire to fix it. 
I have to tell, these small trimmers are very heat sensitive as well.
By a whole assembly, yes I meant jacks and dc jack as well. Good luck.


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

epis said:


> Board doesn't look "toast", yet  If you don't have any desoldering tools, here is a tip :
> You'll need to pry the trimmer, use small jeweler's screwdriver or something similar, heat two legs at the same time, when the solder is liquidy, pry it gently.
> Do the same on the other side. Repeat it if needed. You must do it quick.These double sided pcbs are the bitch to work without proper tools.
> If you toasted it, you can always add a piece of jumper wire to fix it.
> ...


I've been doing that with the other components I've desoldered, so it's good to know I was doing the right thing with out the proper tools. (which I'll be getting soon)
As for the 90 degree rotation, do you mean clockwise or counter clockwise?

I'll post a picture for the whole assembly later as it's the wife's Bday today and heading out!

Thanks Epis!


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

Clockwise of course, you have 3 legs goin' in 3 holes . Cheers


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Have we verified that you have a meter?


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

Yes but it doesn't register uef


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

It looks to me that you were supposed to solder pots directly to the board, opposite side to rest of the components, and LED as well.
That way pots would make support for the board inside the enclosure.
And one more question : Did you plug input jack while testing for power ?


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

epis said:


> It looks to me that you were supposed to solder pots directly to the board, opposite side to rest of the components, and LED as well.
> That way pots would make support for the board inside the enclosure.
> And one more question : Did you plug input jack while testing for power ?


That's what tried at first but didn't like the fact that it was sitting on the board and was a good potential of contact with other components. Does it matter if I don't? The connection is still being made. 
I'll figure out another to support it after.

And yes, I plugged in the 9v Lowe adapter. I could get a meter reading at the board where the wires were connecting but that's it. No power elsewhere.


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

18Rocks said:


> That's what tried at first but didn't like the fact that it was sitting on the board and was a good potential of contact with other components. Does it matter if I don't? The connection is still being made.
> I'll figure out another to support it after.
> 
> And yes, I plugged in the 9v Lowe adapter. I could get a meter reading at the board where the wires were connecting but that's it. No power elsewhere.


It doesn't matter for now, connections are made anyway 

I meant pedal input jack, it's acting as power switch as well ( it switches the negative of the power supply).
If you have +9V coming to the board, please verify that holes on the board are really metalized. If they aren't, you'll need to solder all the components (most of it) on the both side of the board.
If the holes are metalized, no problem., but you will start real troubleshooting.
Take a look at the diagram. See where dc +9V is connected. You need to follow where it goes. First measure voltage on both ends of resistor 100Ohms.
There should be similar voltage on both ends.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

18Rocks said:


> Yes but it doesn't register uef


Will it read small AC voltages? If you plug your guitar into the pedal, you can register changes in AC/audio signal, and trace where the signal is able to reach in the circuit.

And thanks for helping him out, Damir. :smile-new:


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## loudtubeamps (Feb 2, 2012)

This would be a very cool fuzz to build up.............freestompboxes.org • View topic - Hornby Skewes - Zonk Machine / Zonk II ( JHS )


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Following this thread with interest...and am learning.

Cheers

Dave


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*



epis said:


> It doesn't matter for now, connections are made anyway
> 
> I meant pedal input jack, it's acting as power switch as well ( it switches the negative of the power supply).
> If you have +9V coming to the board, please verify that holes on the board are really metalized. If they aren't, you'll need to solder all the components (most of it) on the both side of the board.
> ...


I didn't try from the input jack. I'll give that a try once I get home and see what transpires and go from there.

Thanks





mhammer said:


> Will it read small AC voltages? If you plug your guitar into the pedal, you can register changes in AC/audio signal, and trace where the signal is able to reach in the circuit.
> 
> And thanks for helping him out, Damir. :smile-new:


It says it can read voltage from 0-600v.

Here is the description from the website:

*Specifications:*
*Functional Specifications*
_Voltage DC_
Range: 0 – 600.0 V
Accuracy: 1% ± 5 counts

_Voltage AC (True RMS)_
Range: 0 – 600.0 V
Accuracy: 1% ± 5 counts (50/60 Hz)

_Current AC (True RMS)_
Range: 0 – 600.0 A
Accuracy: 2.0% ± 5 counts (50/60 Hz)

_Current DC_
Range: 0 - 200.0 µA
Accuracy: 1.0% ± 5 counts

_Resistance_
Range: 0 – 9999 Ω
Accuracy: 1.5% ± 5 counts

_Temperature (Type K Thermocouple)_
Range: -10 degree C to 400 degree C (-14 degree F to 752 degree F)
Accuracy: +/- 1.0% + 0.8 degree C (+/- 1.0% + 1.5 degree F) typical
Range: -40 degree C to -10 degree C (-40 degree F to -14 degree F)
Accuracy: +/- 5.0% + 1.5 degree C (+/- 5.0% + 3.3 degree F) typical

_Capacitance_
Range: 1-1000 µF
Accuracy: 1.9% ± 2 counts

Continuity: <= 30 Ω

- - - Updated - - -



greco said:


> Following this thread with interest...and am learning.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


You and me both Dave! 
In a way I'm almost happy I'm running into these issues as it's forcing me to really understand how it works, which is the whole point of getting into this. I'm thankful for the experienced guys helping out, otherwise it would be a lot more difficult.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*

If your meter is autoranging, then just set it to AC voltage, but if it has "ranges" for resistance, DC, and AC voltage, set it to the lowest AC range (will generally be a few volts).

Connect the ground lead (usually black) to a dependable ground point on the pedal. You may have to use alligator clips for this, but I often have success sliding the tip of the probe between the outside rubber/neoprene/vinyl jacket of the patch cable, and the outside metal cover of the plug, whether its at the input or output jack.

With your guitar plugged in, you can touch the red/hot probe to the input jack, for starters. Strumming the open strings, with the gutar volume up full, should probably get you somewhere between 20 and 100mv at the input jack, depending on your pickups and how hard you strum. Congrats! Your cable and guitar work! 

You can now, continue this process, verifying at a variety of points along the way that your signal is still happily marching along. So, if you read a signal at the point where the input jack is wired up to the switch, but there is NO signal reading at the switch lug where the wire connects to the circuit board, then you probably have a short where those wires are connected, or perhaps you have wired the switch wrong.

Once you know the signal is finding its way through the switch to the board, you can then test for signal at various junctions, like after the input cap, and all the way up to the volume pot input.

For folks in your situation (novice builders) the most frequent sources of error are generally going to be misinstalled transistors, electrolytic caps flipped around the wrong way, and miswired phone jacks and power jacks - all too easy to forget which lug was which when rotating things. Further down the list are going to be heat-related failure. Pewople will expectedly get panicky that they have fried something, if only because they tend not to have a lot of extra parts sitting around, but frying happens much more rarely than flipping-around errors, or forgetting to make ground connections.

Checking DC voltages on the pins of the transistors (no strumming required) can be useful here, if only because this is such a frequently-built circuit that you can likely find out what the correct voltages are supposed to be from any of a number of places.

I frerquently refer people to this little video I made a few years ago, about the insides of stompswitches. It is not uncommon for beginners, and even not-so-beginners to mess up the inside of their stompswitch by overheating. The video shows you what's going on inside, why those errors happen, and what to do about it.

[video=youtube;6uhDKFhqYnw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uhDKFhqYnw[/video]


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &quot;One&quot;*

As I've been following the circuit, as I've mentioned in previous posts, I get no power/continuity (o.1 volts max down stream of my LED. Can I simply jumper it right now to see if the rest will power up?
I'm receiving 0.2V at both of my pots (wired backwards maybe?)
C4 getting 5V on one connection and 0.2V on the other
C5 is getting 4.5V on each side

I've also conducted a continuity test on the 3PDT switch and I'm getting nothing at all. Wondering if that's the issue right there?


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

So I decided to watch your fantastic little video you made and followed your very easy to follow steps and we now have conductivity!!!

Thanks Mark!


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

So does that mean you had inadvertently made the grease melt and coat the little rocker contacts?


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

mhammer said:


> So does that mean you had inadvertently made the grease melt and coat the little rocker contacts?


You got it! I had decided the re-wire the switch anyway as I know It could had been much neater. I'll make sure to test it again after to make sure I didn't overheat it again this time.


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

So now I'm getting continuity on the switch and when I plug it into the amp I can hear the "fuzz feedback" when turned on as well as a change in sound when I run a pick on the strings but I'm not getting any actual sound. The pots aren't responding either... wired backwards?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

This is where you pull out the meter and measure voltages in the appropriate places.


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

Yep figured as much. I'm calling it quits for the night and continue the process tomorrow. 

Thanks for that video though, it totally helped out.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

18Rocks said:


> I'm diving head first into the realm of DIY Stompboxes!!!
> The thought of this actually makes me giddy. :sFun_cheerleader2:


Is the "giddy" feeling returning yet? ...now that you are making progress.

Cheers

Dave


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## 18Rocks (Jan 3, 2014)

greco said:


> Is the "giddy" feeling returning yet? ...now that you are making progress.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave


It is actually and I know I'm close. There's just a few tweaks that'll need to be made. 
The best part is that I'm learning a lot from looking at the schematics in an analytical way and once it's done I'll have a new pedal to enjoy to boot!


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &amp;quot;One&amp;quot;*

Hi Mark, I apologize for jumping in the master's classroom. Simply I got bored on sunday's afternoon. And master wasn't there. ))
Your video is great.
I would like to add, when we are talking about soldering, I like to use rosin flux (liquid). It shortens the soldering time and prevents overheating.
I keep it in nail polish bottle. Works miracle with no lead solder, but I use it with any kind of solder wire.

- - - Updated - - -



18Rocks said:


> It is actually and I know I'm close. There's just a few tweaks that'll need to be made.
> The best part is that I'm learning a lot from looking at the schematics in an analytical way and once it's done I'll have a new pedal to enjoy to boot!


Just to help you to learn  http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/fuzzface/fffram.htm Enjoy it


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## epis (Feb 25, 2012)

*Re: Looking to build a pedal, need help with selecting the &amp;quot;One&amp;quot;*

Most of the guys on our forum don't know about this Mark's work :

http://hammer.ampage.org/?cmd=lt&xid=&fid=&ex=&pg=1


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