# What "Class" is a Peavey 6505+?



## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

As in Class A , a/b etc? Been googling and cant seem to find that out. 

I'm thinking of getting either a THD hotplate or yellow jackets to make my amp more useable at home, and trying to determine if theres any benefit to this stuff? I want a crunchy overdriven sound at fairly subdued volumes.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

6505/5150's are class A/B.

class doesnt matter for attenuating your amp.. at least as not as far as i know. it shouldnt be a determining factor in buying an amp either - class A and class A/B both sound good 

yellowjackets wont make your amp quieter, buying the proper attenuator will.

also, you have 2 volumes on your amp: use 'em. my channel volumes on the jsx are usually below 1 for when people are at home, and the master rarely gets to go over 1.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

So sounds like in your opinion, yellow jackets are a waste for this amp?

What do you recommend in terms of an attenuator? Will I be able to "push" the amp any harder at low volumes with one rather than just crank the "pre" knob and dial back the "post" knob?


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

Diablo said:


> So sounds like in your opinion, yellow jackets are a waste for this amp?
> 
> What do you recommend in terms of an attenuator? Will I be able to "push" the amp any harder at low volumes with one rather than just crank the "pre" knob and dial back the "post" knob?


It's all combinations of gain and power.

As has been said, Yellow Jackets are merely tube pin adapters. They let you plug a smaller 9 pin EL-84 tube into a larger 8 pin socket designed to take EL34's, 6L6's or whatever. There's a little bit more stuff inside to adapt to the power and bias voltages but in essence that's what's going on.

The idea is that you can put smaller, lower power tubes into an amp designed to run with high power tubes. A pair of EL34's will run 50-60 watts or so. The right Yellow Jacket will let you run EL84's instead and these tubes will deliver maybe 25 watts.

There are different Yellow Jackets for different tube swaps but before you go buying ALL of them and swapping every kind of tube available it helps to understand the differences between the tubes in the first place.

First off, EL34's are much more sensitive than 6L6's. This means the same amount of signal available from the preamp stages will drive them far harder. That's why a Fender sounds cleaner than a Marshall, for the same approximate power output. The EL34's will drive harder into distortion, even though both amps might have the same amount of gain stages in the number of 12AX7's in the preamp. That's also why some amps have switches to adjust the bias voltage and stuff so you can change between 6L6 and EL34 output tubes.

EL84 tubes handle much less power but their gain/sensitivity is much more like an EL34. That's why all those 18 watt Marshall clones out there sound so much like a bigger Marshall!

6V6's give a bit less power than EL84's but they are not as sensitive. They are more like a low power 6L6. There is a bit more sensitivity and that's part of why you can get a bit more "snot" from a Deluxe Reverb than a Pro Reverb but nowhere near like an EL84.

If you understand these factors you can make a better choice before paying out for Yellow Jackets. 

There's more to the story, of course! I ALWAYS make long posts, don't I?:smile: I'll try to keep it straight and clear.

The most important thing to understand about tube amps is that you shouldn't expect them to do everything! Just like those "universal fits all" tools from Crappy Tire that fit everything kinda poorly, you need a different amp for a different application.

There are two areas of distortion in a tube amp. One is the preamp and one is from the power output tubes. The sound is VERY different!

Classic tube amps didn't have master volumes. They sounded best when you cranked 'em up! It wasn't just the power. When you turned the channel volume up to 7 or more you were driving the output tubes hard enough to get creamy, thick, balls to the wall power amp distortion. This is the sound of 70's rock, with Randy Rhodes and others. Listen to bands like Mountain, and of course early Jimmy Page and other "gods"!

Master volumes are an 80's thing, when the world went all "Yngwie"! They work by putting a volume control BEFORE the output tubes! You can run the preamp stages hot and cut the signal down before the output tubes take over. You get a great "crunchy" and "fizzy" distortion but you do pay a price. You TOTALLY lose your power tube distortion! The output tubes are hardly working at all. In effect, the EL34's or 6L6's are in "hifi" mode!

This is not necessarily a bad thing. It's just a different thing! It all depends on what type of sound you're trying to make. With a lot of shredder hard core amps it doesn't matter. You're gonna put so much gain with pedals that you aren't gonna care as much about the basic tone of the amp.

With most other types of music like classic rock, rockin' blues and country you care more about the basic tone of the amp by itself. The problem is, you might have a bigass 50 watt amp and you're gonna play a small club. You tell yourself that you'll only run it on 2-3 but when you start to play the tone just sucks! So you end up inching up the volume control. It's not that you want to play loud. You just want to sound good! So you end up with the volume too high and the owner is mad at you and won't re-book your band. The other guys blame you for the lost income and throw you out. You end up as a solo act at a local hotel, opening up for Marv and the Marvelettes.

What happened was that you took a 20 pound sledgehammer to a "hang a picture on the wall" type job! You should have used a smaller amp. That's another reason for those 18 watt amps. You can run them on 8 (maybe into a 1-12 cab) and get the tone without blasting out the walls.

A carpenter has more than one saw or hammer. He has different sizes for different jobs. It's the same with tube amps. Since most of us are not extremely rich on the money we pay musicians in Canada and we haven't landed some tours in richer countries like Norway, Britain or Germany it can hurt to buy an extra amp. So we buy things like Yellow Jackets and Hot Plates.

I like the sound of Hot Plates better, myself. They work by being a dummy load for the speaker. This means that they look like a speaker to the amp but they don't move air. They just turn the energy into heat! This means you can crank the amp up into power tube distortion territory without being as loud.

Also, this means your amp is still running in the "sweet spot" for bias and all the other "stuff"! Yellow Jackets have to have resistors and things inside them to make sure that the higher voltages inside a big amp don't fry the smaller tube. This means everything including bias is set way into the "always safe" area. It can be like having your output tubes biased real "cold". Hot Plates may work by wasting most of your power but at least they shouldn't change the tone of your amp much.

Once again, I hope all this was helpful to some folks!

:food-smiley-004:


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## nonreverb (Sep 19, 2006)

Great post Bill...The only thing I would add is the OT distotion factor. Those small OT's in lower power amps contribute that cool saturation distortion to the tone as well. Attenuators help bring out some of that in larger amps too.:food-smiley-004:


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## JSX/6505 (Nov 18, 2007)

The fact is that 6505's are supposed to be played loud. Although I've heard guys get good thick sounding tones by jucing up the front end with and overdrive pedal. Pre gain at half, post at 1-2.

I myself get huge tones at low volume levels from my JSX. 
I set my Ultra channel volume to 1 and my Master Volume to 10. The preamp is hot no matter how high the level is, and the poweramp is maxed so I don't lose any girth or thump at low volumes.


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

JSX/6505 said:


> The fact is that 6505's are supposed to be played loud. Although I've heard guys get good thick sounding tones by jucing up the front end with and overdrive pedal. Pre gain at half, post at 1-2.
> 
> I myself get huge tones at low volume levels from my JSX.
> I set my Ultra channel volume to 1 and my Master Volume to 10. The preamp is hot no matter how high the level is, and the poweramp is maxed so I don't lose any girth or thump at low volumes.


Well, sorta!:smile: I can tell from your gear list in your signature that you're more of a Dime Bag Darryl fan. I've no doubt that you get a sound that you like.

However, there's still no way you're getting power tube distortion at low volumes. The whole point is that the tubes have to be delivering HIGH volume! That means they're working hard from being driven hard. You've turned the post volume up to 10 but if the previous section is at one then there's still not a lot of drive. If there was a lot of drive then the volume would be HIGH! 

All your distortion is coming from the preamp stages, period and end of story. As I said, this is not a bad or good thing. It's all taste. I'm old, with an old hippy's taste in tone. So why listen to me?

:food-smiley-004:


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

Diablo said:


> What do you recommend in terms of an attenuator? Will I be able to "push" the amp any harder at low volumes with one rather than just crank the "pre" knob and dial back the "post" knob?


Yes, get an attenuator. I have a Weber MiniMass that works great with my amps, pushed-tube tone at bedroom levels.

EDIT: I posted the response above before reading Wild Bill's posts. I agree (duh!) ... what I do is set the master volume at 10, the channel volume with as much saturation as I want, and then control the actual volume coming out of the speakers with the Weber MiniMass. The tone is pretty much the amp's tone unless the MiniMass' volume is really, really low.


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## JSX/6505 (Nov 18, 2007)

Wild Bill said:


> Well, sorta!:smile: I can tell from your gear list in your signature that you're more of a Dime Bag Darryl fan. I've no doubt that you get a sound that you like.
> 
> However, there's still no way you're getting power tube distortion at low volumes. The whole point is that the tubes have to be delivering HIGH volume! That means they're working hard from being driven hard. You've turned the post volume up to 10 but if the previous section is at one then there's still not a lot of drive. If there was a lot of drive then the volume would be HIGH!
> 
> ...


Well, sorta. I don't really like Dimebag at all. I've always thought he had horrible tone. I like Pantera, but not Dimebag alone. I'm actually driving my poweramp very hard, in all applications. I have my bias set very hot and my power tubes are really cooking, all the time. My master is always on 10 and for jam volume levels my ultra channel volume only needs to on 3-4. True, the bulk of your gain comes from the preamp but the girth, body and warmth all comes from the power amp. At low volume levels I don't lose that big bottle tone because the are alwys being drivenand pushed. The louder I turn up the volume the more it's apparent. Also, it doesn't really matter for me personally because when I play, it's always loud. I don't have to keep it quiet for any reason. I have a small practice amp for midnight noodling.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

jsx, do you have your fx loop dimed and on? the amp wont sound like a 120W amp without this.

I leave my fx loop dimed and on, warms up the sound, makes everything louder. i usually have my channel volumes below 1, and my master at 1 or a little bit above. if no one's home, i'll bump things up to 2.5 on the channels and 5 on the master.


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## JSX/6505 (Nov 18, 2007)

Hey Budda, I have my effects loop set to opposite intervels. Through discussion with Peavey Tech Support, I've found this to give the best results. I have my Send dial set to 8 and my Return dial set to 2. (Opposite positions) My loop is always on, and I have a BBE SS and Delay pedal in it. As I said before my master volume is always set to 10 so I don't have any lack of volume issues. My amp gets insanly loud but maintains clarity too. With the master on 10, ultra volume at 3 and the effects loop set how it is I need to break out the earplugs. My neighbour too. :smile:


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Wow, this ended up being a really good thread! Thanks for everybody's posts!
I'm going to pick up an attenuator I saw on ebay, and experiment with that for awhile, and maybe add some OD in front of the amp.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

jsx, take the pedals out of the loop and dime it some time, lemme know how that goes 

i needs me an RV-3 so i can get delay/reverb in 1 go lol


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Diablo said:


> and maybe add some OD in front of the amp.



change that maybe to a definitely. i was skeptical about boosting, but wow oh wow i can't go back lol.

www.bodenhamer-electronics.com - TS7 modded to 808 specs + more for $85 shipped to your door. what's the going rate on a regular TS7 in stores lol.

I have one, love it. having the TS808 side and the hot mode is a huge plus IMO. i get sweet crunchy tones with the hot mode


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## JSX/6505 (Nov 18, 2007)

Budda said:


> jsx, take the pedals out of the loop and dime it some time, lemme know how that goes
> 
> i needs me an RV-3 so i can get delay/reverb in 1 go lol


Oh yeah, I've tried that before. I didn't find it necessary as I can get all the volume I could possibly need from the master. But friend has a Boss RV-3. Those things can be hard to find now.

Als I used to boost my other amps with overdrive pedals but when I was shopping for a new amp in '06 I wanted a high gain head that didn't need to be boosted to achieve the gain I was after. I found that in the JSX. I tried a few od pedals in front of the amp but found they robbed the amp of tone and thinned out the sound. The past year I've been gradually rolling back my gain for increased clarity. My ultra channel gain is set at 5.


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## Diablo (Dec 20, 2007)

Budda said:


> change that maybe to a definitely. i was skeptical about boosting, but wow oh wow i can't go back lol.
> 
> www.bodenhamer-electronics.com - TS7 modded to 808 specs + more for $85 shipped to your door. what's the going rate on a regular TS7 in stores lol.
> 
> I have one, love it. having the TS808 side and the hot mode is a huge plus IMO. i get sweet crunchy tones with the hot mode


Thanks, ya I've been talking with Joe. I think I'm prob going to get his "Bloody Murder" OD pedal.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

I'm getting a custom-painted BM soon myself. gonna A/B it with my TS7ovChaos, then my buddy is gonna buy the TS.

i used to think the JSX had enough gain (it does, i suppose) and didn't need boosting either.. until i stuck a great pedal in front of it. a stock TS7 thins out the sound, yes.. my tubescreamer actually thickens things up while tightening everything i find. "hot" mode is my new best friend actually.

unboosted, my jsx has "punk overdrive' as i like to call it. in other words, it's not quite overdrive, but it's not quite distortion, if that makes sense.

my ultra channel gain is at 2.

www.soundclick.com/thebuddaproject - listen to the C7 clips  (this was before using the TS in hot mode, i need to re-record)


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## JSX/6505 (Nov 18, 2007)

I couldn't hear your C7 clips, they were not playing properly. I'd love to hear your re-recorded clip though.
"Punk overdrive" hey? That's odd because my JSX is just deadly on the ultra channel with the gain at 5. It embarrases my buddies boosted Triple Rec. He gets a little angry about thatWe both play modern/thrash metal styles.

I also have my eq dials set relatively high, which adds a bit of output to the signal because of the JSX's active eq's. Treble @ 6 Mid @ 7 Bass @ 8. Also, my FAT switch is off because when it's on it slows the attack down and just generally makes the amp sound sloppy and not as defined or cutting.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

JSX/6505 said:


> I couldn't hear your C7 clips, they were not playing properly. I'd love to hear your re-recorded clip though.
> "Punk overdrive" hey? That's odd because my JSX is just deadly on the ultra channel with the gain at 5. It embarrases my buddies boosted Triple Rec. He gets a little angry about thatWe both play modern/thrash metal styles.
> 
> I also have my eq dials set relatively high, which adds a bit of output to the signal because of the JSX's active eq's. Treble @ 6 Mid @ 7 Bass @ 8. Also, my FAT switch is off because when it's on it slows the attack down and just generally makes the amp sound sloppy and not as defined or cutting.


well punk overdrive when the tubescreamer is off, yeah. my crunch channel is overdriving goodness, and the gain on my ultra channel is set to 2 hehe. i used to run it at 4, before i got my TS.

i hear ya about the EQ. 6-6-6 on the ultra channel (it just sounds good!), 7-7-7 on my crunch channel. a bit past 6 on both res and presence, FAT switches always off. I like how my WGS British Leads let me crank up the mids and treble while keeping the low's fairly tight.

pity about those clips not working . I'm hoping to record the amp (different cab though) at my buddy's when i get my bloody murder. he's got pro tools and a nic mic (and a nice mac lol), so i'll be sure to post those clips for you guys


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