# Just took the plunge on some RS Guitarworks kits!



## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

Just ordered 2 RS Guitarworks kits - should get them by next week.

They're going into my Gibson R4 Goldtop and also the incoming R8 Mapleburst that will be arriving before the end of the week.

Does anyone have any tips for installing these? I've been trying to find some videos on youtube on how to do it - no such luck so far.

Thanks!


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## vasthorizon (Aug 10, 2008)

50's wiring should do it. . RS kits are awesome. Opens up a lot of your tone.

You would find that twiddling with the knobs on the guitar really has a big impact on your sound.

Beware: You will now find gain pedals and 2-channel amps useless. All you need is a turn of a knob!


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

vasthorizon said:


> 50's wiring should do it. . RS kits are awesome. Opens up a lot of your tone.
> 
> You would find that twiddling with the knobs on the guitar really has a big impact on your sound.
> 
> Beware: You will now find gain pedals and 2-channel amps useless. All you need is a turn of a knob!


Yeah, gonna go for the 50s wiring...
I think i'd actually really enjoy that..... Plus, would free up some more room on my (already tiny) pedalboard!


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

I had an RS kit in an Epi Dot I used to own, and I currently have one in my Strat. Love both of them!

If they're going into a LP, I would definitely go for the 50's wiring. I much prefer the tone of a 50's wired harness to the later schematics. I find the 50's wiring gives more high end and better response on the volume knob. Not sure why, but that's what I found.


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## SteveS (Apr 25, 2006)

I put their Vintage kit in my R9. Big difference!

The tone controls actually work now and the overall tone became much clearer.

Good luck!


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

Regarding your questions about the installation. I've done over a dozen of these and have learned a few hard lessons along the way. I made a metal plate the shape of the control cavity and with holes spaced as in the guitar so that I can preassemble and solder all of the controls outside of the guitar and this has worked very well. Pre-tin the pots for the pick-up grounds before installing in the guitar as well. Once in the guitar, protect the back with cardboard or something similar as it is very easy to burn the back with the iron or solder spatter. Nitro isn't very resiliant to heat and a little time taken in precaution pays back in spades. Finally, when installing your knobs, if they are at all tight on the shafts you will run the risk of pushing the guts of the pot out the bottom as the RS pots only have bent tabs on the back to prevent this. To minimize this risk, either hold the bottom of the pot while you push the knob on or better yet, make sure they aren't too tight in the first place. As already mentioned above, 50's wiring is the shiz and you will certainly enjoy what the kit does for your guitar. Good luck and :rockon:


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

Good call on protecting the back...Will certainly be doing that.... I don't have any solder wick, or a solder sucker, i think I may pick some up along with some flux to ease the process.


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## Yama (Oct 2, 2009)

A newbie question - if both guitars are Re-issued models of the 50s, I thought they should come with 50s wiring and electronics (otherwise, why bother calling them "RE"issue...)

If not, which parts aren't and need to be replaced?

Is this "Complete Premium Vintage Electronics Upgrade Kit-Short Shaft" the Kit that was purchased?

I guess you're good at hands-on work, otherwise the pre-wired package might spare some soldering work, isn't it?


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

Yama said:


> A newbie question - if both guitars are Re-issued models of the 50s, I thought they should come with 50s wiring and electronics (otherwise, why bother calling them "RE"issue...)
> 
> If not, which parts aren't and need to be replaced?
> 
> ...


Yeah, its not what you would think.... My R4 wasnt wired up 50's style when i got it (used), and I dont know if the person before me changed the wiring....

I don't think the R8 will show up with 50's wiring either..

I spent the extra bit of money and got the pre wired kit, I could probably place the components myself, but I know that they'd do a better job at it than me, and i'd like to get as much quality (tone) out of the instrument as possible!


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Yama said:


> A newbie question - if both guitars are Re-issued models of the 50s, I thought they should come with 50s wiring and electronics (otherwise, why bother calling them "RE"issue...)
> 
> If not, which parts aren't and need to be replaced?
> 
> ...


You'd want the long shaft for the LPs. Short shaft is for SGs and 335 style guitars.


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

hollowbody said:


> You'd want the long shaft for the LPs. Short shaft is for SGs and 335 style guitars.


They have a table showing what type of shaft you need for what type of guitar:

http://www.rsguitarworks.net/cms2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39&Itemid=43

Historics require short shaft.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

The long shaft is for LPs with the grounding plate. Short shaft is what you want for Historics and to get rid of the grounding plate in USA production guitars.

Edit: Damn, you beat me to it.


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

J S Moore said:


> The long shaft is for LPs with the grounding plate. Short shaft is what you want for Historics and to get rid of the grounding plate in USA production guitars.
> 
> Edit: Damn, you beat me to it.


Yeah, i've been sitting here at work doing the MOST MUNDANE project..... Its hard not to reply to posts (distraction) whenever they come up in my email 

Thanks for all the help everyone... i'm gonna see about borrowing my friend's FLIP Video camera to document the process of removing the wiring and replacing it with the RS Guitarworks kit - maybe it will help someone else going through this process.


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## Yama (Oct 2, 2009)

For sure man. Better get the most out of them!

What a strategy... bet the next best move for Gibby is rolling out another line of Re-issues touting 50s/60s electronics that's slightly closer to the original with a $1K price hike.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

flashPUNK said:


> They have a table showing what type of shaft you need for what type of guitar:
> 
> http://www.rsguitarworks.net/cms2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=39&Itemid=43
> 
> Historics require short shaft.


You're right Mike, but long shaft for all of us not fortunate enough to have a historic LP kqoct


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2009)

Out of curiosity Mike, will you be keeping the old guts or
would you be willing to part with them? I wouldn't mind 
Gibson pots/wiring for my Epi and an old Harmony.
I'd be willing to offer something reasonable.


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

laristotle said:


> Out of curiosity Mike, will you be keeping the old guts or
> would you be willing to part with them? I wouldn't mind
> Gibson pots/wiring for my Epi and an old Harmony.
> I'd be willing to offer something reasonable.


Let me get back to you......


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## Drazden (Oct 26, 2007)

I second (or third, fourth, fifth) the motion for pictures. I find this stuff really interesting; a 'photo odyssey' of your journey through the guts of a Gibson Historic would be very, very cool, I think.


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

For sure, i'll definitely document it with photos.... My camera isn't the best, but it has a macro setting so that should work out.
In the mean time, I had posted over on the Les Paul Forum, and someone responded with these links - pretty helpful stuff here. The first video actually has a good tip for stringing a guitar - check it out.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/movie/Les_Paul_Low/330/250

http://www.guitarattack.com/repair/intonation.htm

http://www.wikihow.com/Set-Your-Guitar's-Intonation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHA4SLN4qeA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTooyaxdDV0


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

RS Kits are great. You can get pre-wired kits, which I really like, and all you need to do is solder the pups. Kits come mounted on a cardboard sheet cut to fit the opening on the back of the LP. You don't install them with the cardboard of course. :smile:


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Okay, wrench in works here. I have a RS Guitarworks kit in my Hamer USA P90 Special - yes sounds great, volume controls are great, but... 90% of the tone control is between 0 and 4. P90s are *single coils *and I believe they require a .047uf cap and not a .022uf as RS recommended. This is for one tone control, for two, you might want to consider .047 and .022 instead of .022 and .015 IMHO for your R4. 

Also, I have an LP copy with 50s wiring. After five months, I still can't get the hang of using 50s wiring - I much prefer modern.


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## Gretsch6120 (Sep 20, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> Okay, wrench in works here. I have a RS Guitarworks kit in my Hamer USA P90 Special - yes sounds great, volume controls are great, but... 90% of the tone control is between 0 and 4. P90s are *single coils *and I believe they require a .047uf cap and not a .022uf as RS recommended. This is for one tone control, for two, you might want to consider .047 and .022 instead of .022 and .015 IMHO for your R4.
> 
> Also, I have an LP copy with 50s wiring. After five months, I still can't get the hang of using 50s wiring - I much prefer modern.


On the 50's to modern comparison I haven't really found a difference sound wise (but maybe I'm tone deaf) you just ground the middle lug on the tone side and the switch is wired a little different. I have always bought their modern kits and bought oil and paper caps somewhere else(you can find them cheaper and I can't tell the difference). Their kits are good and I know there are few more out on the market has anyone tried anyone else's?


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

Their kits are good and I know there are few more out on the market has anyone tried anyone else's?[/QUOTE said:


> I've used several of Dr. V's (Dr. Vintage) kits. Haven't noticed a lot of difference sound-wise, but I prefer the taper and the quality of the pots. The shafts are secured with lock rings at the top of the pot rather than bent tabs on the back of the pot as RS are. linky: http://www.doctorvintage.com/drv1_controls.html
> 
> Swervin:smile:


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

Well, i wired up both Historics last night..

I realized that I didn't have a tripod or even a memory card for my camera, so I wasn't able to record the process.

I will say, that it was very easy - basically unsolder the connections and re-attach them - 5 points each.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

RS is having a 25% off sale this Friday on all phone in orders! Great opportunity for those considering an RS kit.


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

ne1roc said:


> RS is having a 25% off sale this Friday on all phone in orders! Great opportunity for those considering an RS kit.


*shakes fist*

Though - I saved shipping because I had a friend in NYC for the week, he carried them over the border for me 

I'll try and take some photos of the cavity tonight.

Just a FYI though everyone, the guts from my historic LP's are for sale in the for sale section - one of them comes with sprague caps


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

How does the tone roll off with the R4 ???


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

Got to play the guitars a bit last night, here are my comments:

- the taper on the pots is definitely an improvement - I wasn't expecting it to be as drastic
- I'll need to play it more at higher volumes to be able to tell about being able to use the vol knob as a gain control before I pass judgement (i'll also have to learn to be better at using the volume knob)
- The guitars definitely sound more open, I feel like the 50s wiring is letting a lot more signal (for the lack of a better term) through, giving it that 'wide open' feel.
- I'm finding there is still treble loss with the vol knob below 5 - that may be remedied with a higher volume on my amp me thinks - otherwise, I may consider looking into a treble bleed upgrade
- I noticed a bigger difference in my R4 with Lollar P90s, it does sound better. The R8 sounds better, but maybe not as much of a drastic change
- the Tone controls are certainly more useable, I feel like there is a wider sweep than before the switch - possibly the value of the pots. I'm getting a more pronounced 'wah' effect when turning the tone knob
- I haven't noticed much improvement in the sustain department - though these guitars are already very resonant (the R4 has Pigtail studs/tailpiece - the R8s getting Pigtail studs next week)

Now that i'm sitting here, i'm thinking about how I was playing the guitar - through my effects (all true bypass), which in line there is a Boost'n'buff (which is a buffer) pedal - which I have previously noticed makes a drastic change in the signal strength going into the amp - I didn't think of playing around without the boost in the signal chain. I think i'm going to give it another go tonight without the buffer in the chain, possibly directly into the amp - and seeing if i'm noticing any other differences.

So far though, i'm a happy camper.
- fidelity and signal quality has definitely been improved
- the controls are more useable, and interactive between eachother

I would say that in the R4's case, the pigtail studs/tailpiece was more of a positive upgrade - as far as tone shaping - so i'm glad I had this done before the electronics.


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## Stickman (Oct 27, 2009)

Sorry, not trying to be a jerk, but...

$100 for 4 pots, and 2 caps????

I honestly can't see the jack, switch or wire making a spit of difference to the tone. Not that the wire couldn't make a difference, but I remain unconvinced that stock hookup wire in a Gibson would be that bad. 

I don't really know, but that seems like a lot of dough for those components.


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

Stickman said:


> Sorry, not trying to be a jerk, but...
> 
> $100 for 4 pots, and 2 caps????
> 
> ...


There's an extra cost of having the kit pre wired (neatly and properly).

If you're capable of creating a similar product in Canada for a lower price point, I suggest you do it - I'm sure there are tons of people who would pay Canadian dollars for a compatible product.


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

flashPUNK said:


> There's an extra cost of having the kit pre wired (neatly and properly).
> 
> If you're capable of creating a similar product in Canada for a lower price point, I suggest you do it - I'm sure there are tons of people who would pay Canadian dollars for a compatible product.


+1 - I certainly would. There's a lot of hoo-ha about RS kits and other premium upgrade kits. Lotsa people love em, lots think they're snake oil. I've had 2 different kits: 1 for a semi-hollow guitar and 1 for my current Strat and I think both are fantastic. I think there was less of an improvement with the Strat, but in my semi-hollow, there was a huge difference in tone. At least I thought so, and really, at the end of the day that's what matters most to me and to the company who sold me the product.


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## Stickman (Oct 27, 2009)

flashPUNK said:


> There's an extra cost of having the kit pre wired (neatly and properly).
> 
> If you're capable of creating a similar product in Canada for a lower price point, I suggest you do it - I'm sure there are tons of people who would pay Canadian dollars for a compatible product.


I'm thinking that a top grade pot should top out at about $6. Maximum.

There's lots of legendary mojo about vintage capacitors, but the kit ones are modern according to the web page. So 50 cents each is about where I'd expect to see them.

The jack and the switch as elements of tone is utter crap. Those LP style switches do get a little spendy, though. Maybe $12 or $15. Switchcraft jacks are $3 or $4 at most. Waste of money replacing the stock switch and jack, in my opinion.

So my guess is that if you bought a set of CTS pots from Stewmac and a couple of caps from Mouser or Smallbear, you'd get 99% of what that kit claims in terms of tone improvements for less than $30. I don't know about the special taper on the volume pots, and what practical effect that has, to be honest.

Personally, I think you'd get way more out of putting some bleed caps on the stock volume pots.

Another interesting thing to try is to rewire one of the tone pots as a master tone, then replace the other pot with a 1Meg and rig it as a Reverend style bass contour control. I did that with a Warmoth LP style guitar I built and it really adds a lot more tonal possibilities.


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

You may be right, that the parts are only worth $30-$50 - but then why is RSGuitarworks still in business? And for that matter, there are a number of US companies doing similar things. There must be something going on here - myself - i'm happy - and didn't mind paying the money I did for the quality components that I got.

Some photos of the cavity of my R4.


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## Stickman (Oct 27, 2009)

flashPUNK said:


> There must be something going on here - myself - i'm happy - and didn't mind paying the money I did for the quality components that I got.


Which is really all that matters.


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