# Low watt tube amp chat



## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

I want to say it should be capped at 20 watts but lets call it 30 so we can include a few more.

All these amps are out there and starting to compete with each other, every time I turn around a new one pops up..Love it!
Its still a bit early to decide who the leader is yet and I think it will take even more time for the battle to mellow and have each amp fit into a gendre.

For me the more and more I think about it, the use of my 100 watt tube amps just don't make sense. My playing consist of playing with the guys when the planets align or at home, no desire to get into a band.
One jam I played through a Fender Hotrod with a pedal and it was perfect, missed out on a bit of bottom end but for metal it did damn good!!

What are your thoughts of these low watt amps and do you think you would change your 100 watt head for one?
Give your reasons and thoughts.

Those who play low tuned metal please let me know how they worked out for you.

Last, the prices are amazing but what do you think of the off shore builds?


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Well, there is a big topic you started. I have a Classic 30 that just fits your criteria, and while being an awesome amp with great tone, 30 watts is still way too much for me. It is ungodly loud for a "bedroom" player like me. I bought it over 15 years ago, and I bet I haven't put 20 hours on it. I think 5 or so watts would be great for me, but I have not really paid attention to see if anything in that size comes with a reverb. Then again, I could probably get away with some sort of pedal board like a GNX4 or Vox Tone factory, and stick with headphones.

There are more and more small amps coming out, and that can only do the buyers good.


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## starjag (Jan 30, 2008)

I have taken 13-watts and 25-watts 1x12 combo amps to open mics and jams (with a full band) in small bars. There is really no need for more unless you want loud clean tones. The low-watt Egnater offerings are appealing to me in terms of the off shore alternatives. A good pedal and a 2x12 cab for better low-tuned metal tones? Maybe.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

My Traynor is somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 watts, but the Master Vol makes it possible to play at bedroom level (it's size and ugliness means it sleeps in the garage though) while also being able to peel paint. I like that range of abilities, so I'll never completely discount higher wattage amps. That said, I think it really all comes down to the design of an amp's circuit and the efficiency of the speaker/cab combination that you're running. I know that in 5 watt mode, my Blackheart is loud enough to hang with drums (but it has very little clean in this mode). I like my low watt amp(s) for low volume playing, especially where I want/need the sound of an overdriven power section. The problem is, they rarely stay low volume when they are pushed, so you need pedals anyway... If you want overdrive or distortion, 1 watt might even be enough!

The list of low watt amps I've had and loved: Lexicon 284 (king of the heap - versatile, fantastic sounding and only 3 watts a side so easy to control volume), Hughes and Kettner Metal Shredder (pretty cool and way ahead of it's time - excellent Marshall tone), Pignose (solid state - but nice raunch, almost no clean to be had), Blackheart Little Giant (my current fav), Peavey Windsor Studio (nice once you deal with some issues, but unreliable - I wasn't fond of the overdrive channel's sound).


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## weener (Apr 9, 2009)

I played with a hard hitting drummer,200 watt bass amp,using my 20 watt stack of doom,a 5 watt epi valve juniour and a tiny terror through a 4x12 each and that rig rocked!Probably no good for death metal etc...but for Zep,Cooper ,Aerosmith etc... it worked good,real good!


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## mrfiftyfour (Jun 29, 2008)

I'm getting the 15 watt Dark Horse, when it comes out.
I've been staring at the web page all weekend!
http://www.traynoramps.com/products.asp?type=1&cat=60&id=424
I've definitely jumped on the Traynor bandwagon. Go Canada Go!


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

All of my amps are low watt - 30 and under. Can't see myself ever buying a 100w head. That would be crazy loud. My favorite amp right now is a Silverface Champ. Nice cleans and just loud enough for me. I'm a basement player after all.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

I've owned a few low watters over the years:

Dr. Z Carmen Ghia
Dr. Z Maz 18 
Dr. Z Z 28
Vox Night Train
Orange Tiny Terror
Peavey Classic 20
Kingsley Deluxe 1 
Kingsley Keep
Trinity 5E3 
Fender Pro Junior
Soldano Astroverb
1965 Fender Princeton
1974 Fender Vibrochamp
Epi Valve Junior

All different, all competent amps. I never really bonded with the sub 10 watters, they worked well at home, but always sounded a bit weak to me in band situations. 

My favorites are/were probably the Carmen Ghia, the Keep and the Princeton. The 5E3 is new, but I'm really liking what I hear so far.

I don't have a 100 watt amp, but I do have a 50 watter. I love the punch and the bottom end that the big amps have and I play them quite often, too.


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## Jordan Chin (Jan 17, 2010)

Do you have any of those left over zdogma?

Love the Tiny Terror if you have a decent pedal board. Night train is not clean enough sorry.


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## zdogma (Mar 21, 2006)

Jordan Chin said:


> Do you have any of those left over zdogma?
> 
> Love the Tiny Terror if you have a decent pedal board. Night train is not clean enough sorry.


Yeah, I still have the Keep, Princeton and 5E3. I wish I had kept the Ghia.


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## corailz (May 1, 2008)

For Rock or even Metal,the Tiny Terror can do the job suprisingly well( with a boost in the front for metal)!!!I did some gigs with mine and it's tough to have clean tones at a audible volume aside of a loud drummer,but if you're looking for distortion...This little beast can deliver great saturate tones at pretty loud volumes.
This amp's sounds really nicely in a 4 x 12" stack,it's very surprising to see how much this amp can drive!!!!The Egnater Rebel20 seems to be a better choice for clean tones.It has more control and the 6V6/EL84 mix knob's seems to be a really nice solution for more warmer tones.

If you're a high volume player,you could consider a Mesa Boogie BlueAngel.It's a crazy low watts ClassA amp with alot of room.It breaks nicely at relatively low volume on the 6V6 tubes(15Watts) ,it's more aggressive on EL84 tubes(30Watts),but the cleans are so perfect on both type of tubes.If you have a great overdrive/gain pedal,you'll love the wistles of this beast,even for the metal!!!!


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## Drazden (Oct 26, 2007)

This is the first I've seen the Dark Horse! WOW! When is that thing being released? I want one!


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Good points!

I also find that my Blackheart is great but runs out of power to fast, I think it needs to double its power to be efective.

The speaker side also is a great point, using my amps and a 2-12 is not the same as the 4-12 especialy when it comes to punch.
100 watters have that punch at lower volumes where the small ones don't.
If I could find that same bottom end punch out of a 2-12 and 20 watts I would not need anything else.

Mesa Blue Angel, have not heard of that..


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Traynor YCV20 is my small amp of choice right now, but I really miss a master volume. I'm seriously considering replacing the speaker with something less shrill at higher volumes. At lower volumes this is a sweet amp.

I've never enjoyed a guitar amp over 50 watts much, though my go-to amp now is a Traynor YCV50blue with extension cabinet.

Peace, Mooh.


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## zurn (Oct 21, 2009)

The Egnater Rebel 20 is pretty much the best bang for the buck IMO, I mean look at all these features:

Like its creator, the REBEL-20 is a born rule-breaker. This compact all-tube head has a bold voice that’s anything but small and a host of innovative, user-friendly features that give you the power to shape your sound. Under the hood, the REBEL-20 boasts a full complement of tubes: 3 x 12AX7 Sovteks in the preamp, 2 x 6V6 and 2 x EL84 JJ power tubes.

Egnater’s signature TIGHT and BRIGHT voicing switches let you fine-tune the amp’s response to suit any style. And our exclusive wide-range gain control takes you from sparkling clean to percussive crunch to a ferocious roar.
The scalable WATTS control takes the REBEL-20 anywhere from 1W to 20W, so you can dial in rich, responsive tube tone at any volume level. The professional-grade effects loop is designed to preserve every ounce of your precious tone. But the real star here is the revolutionary TUBE MIX control. This knob lets you dial in the rich American tones of the6V6 power tubes, the British-style bark and chime of the EL84s, or to blend them for an endless variety of sounds. So resist convention, buck authority and create your own signature tone with the REBEL-20.

Rebel-20 Tubes
Rebel-20 Front & Panel Controls

FEATURES
* 20-Watt All-Tube Head
* Variable Wattage Control from 1w to 20w
* Tube Mix Blends Between 6V6 and EL84 Power Tubes
* Master Volume, Gain, Three Band EQ
* Egnater Signature Tight and Bright Voicing Switches
* Effects Loop
* 100V/115V/230V Switchable
* Rugged Shoulder Bag Included
TUBES
3 x 12AX7
2 x 6V6
2 x EL84


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## figsfrmthistles (Nov 14, 2009)

Great thread. I am going to build an amp with no knowledge at all , about amps or electronics, (Yes, I know, it dumb, but I do have a friend who is an expert who knows I'll lean on his knowledge and is ok with that) but I am tryiing to choose which kit to buy. Sadly the Trinity Triwatt is so cool I may need to go bigger just to have it. 

mrmatt1972 you said:


> I know that in 5 watt mode, my Blackheart is loud enough to hang with drums (but it has very little clean in this mode). I like my low watt amp(s) for low volume playing, especially where I want/need the sound of an overdriven power section. The problem is, they rarely stay low volume when they are pushed, so you need pedals anyway...


 I will never use the full power of a large amp >30 watt so I'll for sure be using a low watt settings. BUT, I want a tube amp with clean sound at all volumes when I choose to use it, Soooo, can a 5-15 watt amp do that or does the sound always distort as the volume increases, AND is that out of my control???

Just the first of a million questions.


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## Jordan Chin (Jan 17, 2010)

If you ever decide to sell, pm me. lol


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## infinitemonkey (Jan 20, 2008)

I have a Bumbox Lead 1 running through two blackheart 1x12s. With the boost pedal (Bust) in front it can go all the way from heavy high gain,to classic rock, all the way down to a nice clean jazzy sound, as long as quiet is part of the goal. It does everything it does at fairly low volume. With the two cabs and boost, it would be loud enough for spirited jam, or practice with a sane drummer (if there is such a thing ). 

I also have a Phaez (built by Windsor's Randy Fay) two-watt rig with a pine cab (4x6) I built myself. It does high-gain very well, for a certain sort of sound, like for example early Ramones, or Randy Rhoads. You can also switch from triode to pentode and get a nice bluesy sound.

Between them, the Bumbox is more versatile, but the Phaez is a lot more fun.


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## corailz (May 1, 2008)

figsfrmthistles said:


> I will never use the full power of a large amp >30 watt so I'll for sure be using a low watt settings. BUT, I want a tube amp with clean sound at all volumes when I choose to use it, Soooo, can a 5-15 watt amp do that or does the sound always distort as the volume increases, AND is that out of my control???
> 
> Just the first of a million questions.


Another thing, the gain control's very different if you're using Humbucker or single coils in your guitar.I did some gigs with my Tiny Terror last week and i tried it with my two axes, a PRS SC245 and a G&L Asat Special.At normal volume aside of a normal drummer i had some troubles to get the Tiny Terror clean with humbuckers,even if it's a SC245 with more vintage output.But,with the Asat,i found the Terror more control friendly,it was breaking at higher volumes,so the cleans were better with the Asat.
I was using a Visual Sound Jekyll&Hyde as a gain(Overdrive) ,and even at lowest gain setting on the pedal and cleaner as i can on the Tiny Terror i had some very agressive overdrive with the PRS.

For more cleans at higher volume i really prefer my Mesa-Boogie BlueAngel.In 30Watts(4x EL84) or even in 15 Watts(2x 6V6),it's more of a clean amp and it stays really smooth and i keep more control with my gain pedal....i just realized that i opened another box....The type of tubes is important to be considered too!!!!

Last weekend,i tried a Marshall Class5,and it was the same thing.More cleans with single coils and more gain with humbucker....Now,that's saturate some Tubes!!!For the ones that begins to try tube amps or always ran tube amps at really low volume,you should try some....It's like a drug,when you heard real overdriven tube sound pushed as supposed to be...it's crazy!That's why i really like my Tiny Terror.I can push it to hear the tubes and i really enjoy it!

Shopping for any kind of gear is a drug,so, have fun and try alot of them.You'll found the one that inspire you,that's sure!!!!

Corailz


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## corailz (May 1, 2008)

I just found this.......http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Transatlantic/transatlantic-TA-15.html#gpm1_1 
I think that my Tiny Terror will be for sale soon!!!!!


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## 4345567 (Jun 26, 2008)

__________


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

LOL

Anyone who's ever lifted a DC30 (which I assume your Cobra weighs about the same as) wouldn't consider it a 'low wattage' amp.

In fact, maybe that's how we should befine 'big' and 'small' amps - by their weight. If an amp says 30W, but weighs as much as a Vox AC30, expect that to be a loud 30 watts. And if you can pick up your 100W amp with 1 hand a lift it over your head, well chances are it's a pretty quiet 100W.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...for me, a low-watt tube amp tops out at 15 watts, and even then that is usually pretty loud. really, five watts or less is what i would be shopping for.

15-50 watts, or thereabouts is what i would consider a mid-powered tube amp.

-roland rock


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

I was thinking mid was 30-60 but that is just me.

My new job is keeping me busy, I wanted to put a list together of all the under 30 watt amps out there, if anyone has some time please feel free to go ahead.

With clean amps I think if you can get the volume then your set, some clean amps go to 11 with no breakup.
The metal amps breakup earlier and the distortion seems to be a bit more ahhh studied, lots of people love and hate the tones.

Amps like the Egnator Rebel 20-30 aare getting close to the power of a good chunk palm mute and enought clean to keep everyone happy.
The Orange Dual is probably in the same zone as the 30.


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## torndownunit (May 14, 2006)

david henman said:


> ...for me, a low-watt tube amp tops out at 15 watts, and even then that is usually pretty loud. really, five watts or less is what i would be shopping for.
> 
> 15-50 watts, or thereabouts is what i would consider a mid-powered tube amp.
> 
> -roland rock


Ya I agree. I don't consider anything above 15 watts low wattage at all. At 12 watts, my Pinceton Reverb is even overkill for some playing situations.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Low watt for me means 15w and under for tube, or 30w and under for SS. I had a Gibson GA-5 RI that I traded off last summer for an LP copy. It was a great, gritty little amp, but I do not regret the trade as the LP copy is a damn good axe. I still have my Roland Blues Cube BC30 - 30 watts, and a 15w Vox Pathfinder 15R. I've been lucky as both happen to be really good SS analog amps. I actually run the Vox through an oversized 1x12 closed back Stone Age cab with a Scumback M75-LHDC speaker that I picked up last summer from Faracaster. Amazing how that little Vox sounds. 

I plan to pick up a 5w +/- head. I like what I've read and heard about the Jet City Pico Valve coming out in March. Supposed to be around $289US MSRP. Designed by Andy Marshall of THD. Looks similar to the Univalve/Bivalve. You can also switch Octal tubes without rebiasing - 6V6, EL34, KT66 etc. Around 5 watts with a 1/2 power switch and full EQ. Very interesting. I hopd I can wait until March before changing my mind 3 or 4 times.


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## Roughshod (Sep 22, 2007)

I've got the Blackheart Little Giant and run it through 2 matching Blackheart cabs. I prefer the 5 watt setting and running it almost full out, it sounds plexi-ish to me and I love that. I then got interested in what mods could be done to the little guy and threw in a set of JJ's that warmed up and smoothed out the tone a bit more. Eventually I added the Bitmo 3 way voicing mod. It makes a noticeable difference in tones on all three settings. Central position is "stock" and then to each side is Marshall territory and Vox territory. The destructions suggested using a 12AU7 for the preamp for greater tonal variance but I've yet to try that. I like the fact that I can crank it and get a great crunch out of it with out tearing down the house while I'm at it, it's still quite loud though. Out of curiousity I sought out an amp tech and asked him if it was possible to put in a master volume, he ended up placing a tone pot in the circuit to bleed out the preamp tube effectively cleaning the amp up. Pretty neat. I play rock/metal and it does very well for AC/DC-The Darkness-early Sabbath but needs a kick in the pants to for heavier palm muted, detuned stuff. I also have a Phaez Dasiycutter 14W that's a little beast too. I do wish I had sprung for a full tone stack on it. As it is it's got one single tone knob that works surprisingly well. I'd like to try a full tube switchout in this guy, I find it a little cold sounding. That could also be the speakers, I run it through the Blackheart 1x12's as well. It's got Bite and Throttle switches on it and they both do basically what they say with the Throttle adding some gain. Another cool thing about the Phaez is the master volume, dropping the gain way down and cranking the volume produces a very nice clean tone. It does have quite a bit of tight gain on tap and does some very convincing metal tones too. I have a 100W peavey also but find myself drawn back to the lower watt heads for their portability and great tones! I'm curious to try a Dual Terror and more recently, I'd like to have a go at the Dark Horse. I'm a hack, that occasionally jams with a few people the Blackheart can get lost in a drum kit but the Phaez has that little extra grunt to be heard.


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## knottyhotman (Dec 4, 2009)

Valve JR. is great.

Took mine to a power Blues Jam & it held its own. The other players were impressed


Craig


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

Just ordered my Jet City 20 watt head from Tapestry music, great guys by the way..They included shipping from Vancouver to Toronto!!

Will post and update once it comes in.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Bevo said:


> Just ordered my Jet City 20 watt head from Tapestry music, great guys by the way..They included shipping from Vancouver to Toronto!!
> 
> Will post and update once it comes in.


 When they say 16 ohms out or 2 x 8 ohms out, can you use 1 x 8 ohms out only? Thanks

Looking forward to your update.

Cheers

Dave


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Bevo said:


> Just ordered my Jet City 20 watt head from Tapestry music, great guys by the way..They included shipping from Vancouver to Toronto!!
> 
> Will post and update once it comes in.


Looking forward to it. I currently plan on getting a Jet City Pico Valve once they come out in March. The thing is, I have been known to change my mind 6 or 7 times in two months. But I do love the THD tube swapping ability! sdsre


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

If you change your mind 6-7 times a few weeks...hmmm HEY you will be right back where you started!!


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## JMann (Feb 18, 2007)

zdogma said:


> Yeah, I still have the Keep, Princeton and 5E3. I wish I had kept the Ghia.


I have had a few including the Trinity Plexi 18, THD Bivalve, Budda SD18 and as Zdogma states, they were all very competent amps and they had their own thing going. I am currently down to 2 low watt amps which I am extremely content with, a Mesa 5:25 1x12 and also a Kingsley Keep. If I ever get back to stepping out and playing live the 5:25 would be the grab and go. Just too versatile and not much outboard gear required. To partially answer the OP, I would say the Budda and Mesa would offer up the best metal or hard rock tones at bedroom volume, w/o pedals. The Budda has a great MV and the Mesa has a 5 watt option. Keep in mind I'm not a metalhead.

The Keep though, deserves special merit for it's superb clean tone. I have the power option at 3 1/4 watt, MV dimed, volume and tone to taste, into input 1 and (I have said this many times) it produces such lush, 3d, chewy sounds and takes pedals so well that with the right one you could probably acheive your metal mayhem tone at low volumes. The Mesa on the other hand has a dedicated clean channel and in the 25 watt mode it produces stellar clean sounds but not quite up to the Keep's standards. But then you have another channel and 3 other modes on the Mesa to offer up a ton of versatility.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Just seen the suhr amps online, they look pretty sweet.


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## Bevo (Nov 24, 2006)

This one...? http://www.suhrguitars.com/badger.aspx#18

Cosmo has them in stock or did last time I was there, did not play it but it was not considered a cheap amp..


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

That's the one. I have no intention of buying one though. Waiting for:











It's coming!


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