# Which USB Interface...



## hollowbody

Should I get? I'm _really_ interested in the M-Audio 410. The price point is just about right and the features seem to be everything I would need at the moment. My question is this, is there any other interface I should be looking at as well? The one feature about the 410 that really sold me on it was the 2 headphone outs. As much as I love trying to record and watch the screen and play at the same time, I'd rather have someone else do the clicky-watchy part for me. So I'm definitely looking for something with 2 headphone outs. Beyond that, the usual phantom power, etc, etc.

If it helps, I'll be using it with Sonar 7.


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## shoretyus

To start I have no experience at usb stuff. I have started to look around at stuff a bit. That looks like a good one. But two headphone jacks can be made easily. You may need a headphone amp some where along the line. I have been interested in the Tascam interfaces with interest too.


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## shoretyus

hmmmmm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anJJ02VV1qs


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## hollowbody

shoretyus said:


> hmmmmm
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anJJ02VV1qs


Meh, I'm not too convinced by that. That guy in the vid seemed like a bit of a knob. Seems like his drivers and software aren't set up correctly more than anything that has to do with the hardware.

The 410 is still the leader for me, but I'm open to suggestions.


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## Jeff Flowerday

If you can go with Firewire over USB.


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## hollowbody

Jeff Flowerday said:


> If you can go with Firewire over USB.


Well, the 410 _does_ support firewire, though I can't recall off the top of my head which version it is. USB 2.0 does 480 mbits/sec compared to IEEE 1394 400's 400 mbits or so. Firewire 800 is sure faster, but I think I'd be ok with USB 2.0. My computer can handle both, so it would probably come to price, or other features to sway my decision.


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## Jeff Flowerday

hollowbody said:


> Well, the 410 _does_ support firewire, though I can't recall off the top of my head which version it is. USB 2.0 does 480 mbits/sec compared to IEEE 1394 400's 400 mbits or so. Firewire 800 is sure faster, but I think I'd be ok with USB 2.0. My computer can handle both, so it would probably come to price, or other features to sway my decision.


Peak advertised throughput is a useless number. Stable high sustained rates is what you are looking for and firewire 400 wins that battle hands down.

I repeat go firewire if you can. I've tried numerous USB interfaces and I own 2 firewire interfaces. You don't want the nightmare of USB when it comes to latency sensitive audio recording. Trust me!


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## hollowbody

Jeff Flowerday said:


> Peak advertised throughput is a useless number. Stable high sustained rates is what you are looking for and firewire 400 wins that battle hands down.
> 
> I repeat go firewire if you can. I've tried numerous USB interfaces and I own 2 firewire interfaces. You don't want the nightmare of USB when it comes to latency sensitive audio recording. Trust me!


Haha, ok, I've been warned. I'll take it under advisement. 

Anyone tried the Presonus stuff, like the Firebox? That seems to be the closest direct competitor to the 410.


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## Chito

How about the Tascam US1641? Anyone has experience with this one? I've read issues with it using Nvidia usb ports but other than that, reviews are a hit and miss. But with 8 mic/line inputs plus 6 more line inputs, 8 decent pres, it's hard to beat for the price.


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## hollowbody

Chito said:


> How about the Tascam US1641? Anyone has experience with this one? I've read issues with it using Nvidia usb ports but other than that, reviews are a hit and miss. But with 8 mic/line inputs plus 6 more line inputs, 8 decent pres, it's hard to beat for the price.


Tascam makes good stuff as far as I'm concerned. I had a 4-track of theirs for a while and it was great. That actually _does_ look like a good deal for all the features, but I don't know if it would be for me. Size is a bit of an issue, since I live in a basement apartment and I'm not "allowed" to take over the entire den with my gear. Also, I don't know what I would do with 8 mic inputs, but I guess it would be nice to have flexibility in the future.


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## shoretyus

Hmmm this seems simple.... and half the price of L& M 

http://www.stevesmusic.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&manufacturers_id=393&products_id=3494


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## hollowbody

Those standalone units seem pretty decent, but I've invested a lot of time and energy learning to use Sonar and a bunch of VSTs and stuff. I don't know if I'd want to go away from that.


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## shoretyus

hollowbody said:


> Those standalone units seem pretty decent, but I've invested a lot of time and energy learning to use Sonar and a bunch of VSTs and stuff. I don't know if I'd want to go away from that.


I haven't ... kqoct starting at the bottom rung


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## hollowbody

haha, well, you're probably better off going standalone anyway if al you're looking for is a simple way to record. Then you also don't have to contend with things like audio drivers screwing up, or noise from your pc, etc, etc.


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## Kenmac

I've got the version prior to this, the Edirol UA-25 but this one is the UA-25EX: http://www.stevesmusic.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3488 Not a bad price but you may find something a little less expensive. The specs of this new version are practically identical to mine. As far as I can see the only difference is the software they've included with it.


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## Rugburn

I just bought an M-Audio Fast Track Pro a couple of weeks back. It's versatile and pretty easy to use. It's the software and mic placement that makes my head spin. :smile:


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## shoretyus

Boy am I ever full of crap .....

just picked up this 
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140301729888&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:CA:1123

Now I need a computer.... egad's


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## hollowbody

Rugburn said:


> I just bought an M-Audio Fast Track Pro a couple of weeks back. It's versatile and pretty easy to use. It's the software and mic placement that makes my head spin. :smile:


I was taking a good long look at that one too. It looks really solid. I have a line on a M-Audio Firewire 410 at the moment that I want to check out. If that doesn't pan out, then I might consider dropping some cash on a new Fast Track Pro



shoretyus said:


> Boy am I ever full of crap .....
> 
> just picked up this
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140301729888&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:CA:1123
> 
> Now I need a computer.... egad's


Hahaha! That certainly looks like a sweet little device though. I liked it a lot when I went to Google it after Chito mentioned it, but honestly, I know how I am and I'd want to go out and buy 8 mics pretty soon afterwards, and that's money I'd rather spend on guitars! kkjuw


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## shoretyus

hollowbody said:


> I was taking a good long look at that one too. It looks really solid. I have a line on a M-Audio Firewire 410 at the moment that I want to check out. If that doesn't pan out, then I might consider dropping some cash on a new Fast Track Pro
> 
> 
> 
> Hahaha! That certainly looks like a sweet little device though. I liked it a lot when I went to Google it after Chito mentioned it, but honestly, I know how I am and I'd want to go out and buy 8 mics pretty soon afterwards, and that's money I'd rather spend on guitars! kkjuw


Yeah but I have mics an stuff already...and guitars come to think of itsdsre


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## hollowbody

I picked up a used M-Audio 410 a couple days ago for a really good price and so far I'm really enjoying it. 

The only problem is that playing back the song I recorded a couple weeks back through it really highlights the weaknesses in my recording and mixing technique. Hopefully this little guy will help/force me to make better recordings.


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## Guest

I started a thread in the Recording section about improving mixes. Got some good replies here and on other forums. The last post sums up some good advice from all the sites I posted the question at.


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## bcmatt

So, I thought I would revive this because I am currently looking for a recording interface for my Mac. I was at L&M today asking questions in a couple departments for the best value for what I want the ability to record to two seperate tracks on my software (Garageband right now) using two mics simultaneously (for trying to record a leslie)

What I am wondering about is something that they don't seem to know much about in the actual recording department. The next room over had the live PA section and there are mixers that have usb out as well. One just uses an adapter from the RCA out of the board to go to 2 channels through usb to computer. So, I should be able to pan any of the channels left or right to choose which of the two tracks to go to. What I like is that I am getting a decent band sized mixing board for cheaper than a lot of these interfaces in the next room. Here is the one I was looking at for $235:
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/1204.aspx

So, is there some pitfalls to going this route? Is there something wrong with getting your interface out of your mixer all in one?


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## hollowbody

bcmatt said:


> So, I thought I would revive this because I am currently looking for a recording interface for my Mac. I was at L&M today asking questions in a couple departments for the best value for what I want the ability to record to two seperate tracks on my software (Garageband right now) using two mics simultaneously (for trying to record a leslie)
> 
> What I am wondering about is something that they don't seem to know much about in the actual recording department. The next room over had the live PA section and there are mixers that have usb out as well. One just uses an adapter from the RCA out of the board to go to 2 channels through usb to computer. So, I should be able to pan any of the channels left or right to choose which of the two tracks to go to. What I like is that I am getting a decent band sized mixing board for cheaper than a lot of these interfaces in the next room. Here is the one I was looking at for $235:
> http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/1204.aspx
> 
> So, is there some pitfalls to going this route? Is there something wrong with getting your interface out of your mixer all in one?


Some of those Behringer products offer a lot of bang-for-the-buck, but build quality is always a concern, and so is sound quality. In a live situation, sound quality is not as big a concern, but in recording, the shortcomings might be more apparent.

The M-Audio 410 I bought does what you're asking for and I got mine used for under $200.


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## Guest

bcmatt said:


> So, is there some pitfalls to going this route? Is there something wrong with getting your interface out of your mixer all in one?


Nothing inherently wrong. Your Mac actually does low latency in/out on its mic input and headphone output via Core Audio (assuming you've got a newer Mac, say no more than 3-4 years old). You can use a mixer and pan one track hard left and one track hard right and buss that to the line in on the Mac. It's a solid, grassroots approach I've seen others make great noise with.

But if you're really looking for that full-on Mac experience I can't say enough nice things about the Apogee Duet. If there was ever a reason to take your project studio Mac the Duet is it. It sounds stellar and operates flawlessly. The drivers are just lightening fast for it. The A/D and D/A converts are superb. Even A/B'ing the Mac's headphone out with the Duet is a night and day experience.


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## bcmatt

Hmm, thanks.
This gives me some things to think about.
It's going to be a hard choice.
My mac is about 2 months old.
That Apogee is so expensive, but maybe it's worth it.

So, I guess if I go the mixing board route, it doesn't need to be USB capable anyways, since the mic line in will also give me 2 channels through panning.


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## Lincoln1

Dude if u can afford the Duet jump on it. It's quality is hands down above and beyond that of any of the motu, presinus and m-audio stuff. It's also nice that if u ever move toLogic, the integration is pretty sweet.


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## Greg Ellis

I've been looking into this idea as well (mixer with an interface built-in).

If all you want is two channels, most of the products out there will work just fine for that.

The problems start to pop up when you want to capture more than two channels at the same time.

I was thinking more along the lines of 8 channels to start, with another 8 added when finances allow, so I could do a decent capture of a live rehearsal session and mix it later. 

2 or 3 guitars, keyboards, bass, main vocs + backups - it adds up really quick. Never mind drums - that could be 6 or 8 channels right there, unless you mix them (live) down to a track or two and hope for the best later.

The main limitation that I hit was that most of the sub-$1000 mixer/interface combos only output a stereo signal across USB. The Peavey mixers and most of the Yamaha's fall into that category. It's a shame, because some of the Yamaha mixers in the "MG" series are really sweet, otherwise. The Peavey's look pretty good too.

I guess that's fine if you only need two instruments at a time, or you're happy to mix the whole band live and just capture that stereo signal. In the latter case, it really limits your ability to manipulate that music later. I suppose you could mess with eq and compression etc, but there's really no way to fix the mix unless you tweak the board and then re-record.

There are some more capable units that can stream 8 separate tracks to the DAW. The Presonus FP10 looks like a good Firewire option. Motu 8pre is similar in terms of features. I missed that TASCAM US-1641 when I was searching. I can't say for sure yet, but I'd guess it's in a similar ballpark featurewise to the Presonus and the Motu. 

There are also some cheaper options like the Alesis Multimix 8 which seem to fall into the "get what you pay for" category, but featurewise, they're not far off.

One limit that even these devices frequently have is that while they are capable of streaming 8 channels into the DAW, the return path is often just a two channel mix. So if you happen to be using the interface to record overdubs or whatever, you can't stream all of your already-recorded channels back out to the device (or to a mixer) and tweak your headphone/monitor mix with your fingers - you need to do that mixing on the computer screen instead.

I guess it's a money thing - as the cost goes up, more and more of these convenience features enter into the picture.

If anyone has any experience with the FP10, Motu 8pre, or Alesis Multimix 8, or any ideas for other similar products, I'd love to hear them.


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## shoretyus

Greg Ellis said:


> There are some more capable units that can stream 8 separate tracks to the DAW. The Presonus FP10 looks like a good Firewire option. Motu 8pre is similar in terms of features. I missed that TASCAM US-1641 when I was searching. I can't say for sure yet, but I'd guess it's in a similar ballpark featurewise to the Presonus and the Motu.


Great unit. I managed to get both a laptop dedicated for recording and the 1641 for $700


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