# Why don't guitar companys use Machine Screws and Inserts for tremolo claws?



## thenineofspades (Dec 21, 2011)

Hi,

I was recently upgrading the trem on my 
guitar an I was wondering why guitar companies don't seem to use machine screws 
and inserts. Seems this would be a much more durable/easier to adjust option. 
The reason I ask is that I'm planning on building a one-off guitar for myself in 
the next few years (in the design faze at the moment). Does it seriously mess 
with the tone, rattle or what? I just find it really odd that they don't uses a 
more precise durable option, or that there isn't an upgrade advertised out there 
(I looked for quite a while online, plenty of replacement wood screws advertised as trem claw screws but no machine 
screws). Has anyone tried this before, if not why isn't it a good idea?

Thoughts?,

thenineofspades


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## dradlin (Feb 27, 2010)

You would need jam nuts on the machine screws else they wouldn't be firmly anchored and/or could work themselves out.


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## thenineofspades (Dec 21, 2011)

By jam nut you mean an extra nut threaded on the bolt/screw in the reverse (lefty tightly) of the inserts right? This could be annoying depending on the style of the outside of the nut (hex, rounded, textured). I can also see how this could be a problem if you didn't know what you were doing and really tried to crank down the jam nut; effectively unscrewing or riping out the inserts like a cork out of a wine bottle with one of those twisty cork pullers. Finger tight would be more than tight enough. I'm curious though as to whether the tension from the springs would be enough to jam the threads in place without an extra nut. Further research is necessary. I think I might set up a screw under spring tension in a jig and see what happens in practice.

Testing... Testing,

thenineofspades


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

They use screws for ease of manufacture. Inserts are an extra step or two. The straight inserts would also pull out over time with the force acting in line with the screw. You would need a specialized insert for that.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

if you used a barbed insert it would probably work just fine i would suspect. there's not THAT much tension on those springs, even at full dive. as for the machine screw? why not use a little locktite? use the blue kind not the red


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## thenineofspades (Dec 21, 2011)

Yeah barbed inserts would be a good idea, but difficult to remove if necessary without seriously messing up your pilot holes you'd never be able to install a replacement without a fill and re-drill. I never intended to use smooth inserts, I think thats what you were referring to J S Moore. I was looking at the screw in type. My main concern was weather machine screws would be detrimental to tone (I realize this is relative, things sound better to different people) or if it's just the ease of manufacture that makes them non-existent. Like I said before I plan to set up a bunch of options under tension (get a bunch of different pieces from the hardware store) in a wooden box and kick it around the back yard, drop it of the deck, etc. and see what stays fastened the longest, or as I call it R to D (research to destruction), but whats the point if someone out there knows machine screws messes up the tone horribly?

Thanks for the advise,

thenineofspades


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## thenineofspades (Dec 21, 2011)

I was watching You-Tube the other day, I was bored, and noticed a weird knob in the back of Herman Li's guitar (it was some Premier Guitar rig rundown thing). Turns out Ibanez has "perfected" claw adjustment in their Edge Zero Point Tremolo. It's a shame you can't buy bridges from them, you have to buy the whole guitar. . . sigh. Anyways I figure I'll just copy and adapt there mechanism
to a Floyd Rose or maybe go for a Kahler or something in my one off build.


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