# 1991 Am Standard Strat, Expert Opinions?



## crann (May 10, 2014)

Hi Strat Experts,

Considering picking up a 1991 American Standard Strat. A couple questions for those in the know:

1. Any easy ways to tell if it's a poplar body? The only thing I can think of is looking at the neck pocket
2. Are these any good? I've read these have a thinner neck, but specific to this year
3. Value? What's a range of prices that you think these are worth (very clean condition) and how much YOU would fork out. The guitar is priced at 1k, but I might trade to offset that cost.

Thanks for any wisdom you can impart!


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

Most were poplar with an alder veneer at this time. The sunburst ones are easy to spot as the tummy cut on the back was usually darkened. The solid color ones you will have to assume they are poplar. Apparently Fender went back to solid alder around 1997-1998.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Revert sold listing go anywhere from $600.00-$1600.00. 

"1991 American Standard Strat" Gear


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

Thanks guys! Perhaps I'm too much of a cork sniffer, but poplar might be a bridge too far for me. If anyone has experience with these, let me know.

- Danny


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Why not try it first?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

crann said:


> Thanks guys! Perhaps I'm too much of a cork sniffer, but poplar might be a bridge too far for me. If anyone has experience with these, let me know.
> 
> - Danny


The wood in an electric guitar has so little effect on the overall sound, that it is pretty much not a consideration when it comes to sound. It would have more to do with looks/grain than sound. If you are interested in a strat style guitar there are so many to choose from outside of Fender as well and for a lot less than Fender's prices. However, that has to be your choice if that's what you want on the headstock.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

What are the tonal differences on solid body guitars, between Alder, Ash, Poplar, Basswood, Mahogany and Maple?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

knight_yyz said:


> What are the tonal differences on solid body guitars, between Alder, Ash, Poplar, Basswood, Mahogany and Maple?


That, frankly, is mostly marketing. There have been various tests over the years and so-called experts can't tell the difference. That is what I am basing my choices on, not what someone who is trying to sell their product. 

I have yet to see a manufacturer produce videos showing the differences or providing the differences from tests done inside and anechoic chamber. If they did, can you imagine what this would do to all the various models they are selling as "so different" from the other models? The Who's song "Won't Get Fooled Again" is about politics but it fits here as well.


When it comes to acoustics, it's a different story and even then there are a number of factors that will fool the experts.


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## Kerry Brown (Mar 31, 2014)

Steadfastly said:


> That, frankly, is mostly marketing. There have been various tests over the years and so-called experts can't tell the difference. That is what I am basing my choices on, not what someone who is trying to sell their product.
> 
> I have yet to see a manufacturer produce videos showing the differences or providing the differences from tests done inside and anechoic chamber. If they did, can you imagine what this would do to all the various models they are selling as "so different" from the other models? The Who's song "Won't Get Fooled Again" is about politics but it fits here as well.
> 
> ...


Indeed! I have played a couple of great sounding laminate (plywood) strats. If a guitar looks like crap because of the wood I probably wouldn't buy it but my ears would determine if it sounds good not my eyes or my head.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a poplar Strat.


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## Fuzzy dagger (Jun 3, 2016)

I have a ‘91 American strat that I quit like.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

The poplar is fine. I’ve got a great sounding MIM Strat from that era that’s poplar and if I recall correctly Jeff Beck’s favorite signature Strat for a long time was one made with a poplar body.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Kerry Brown said:


> Indeed! I have played a couple of great sounding laminate (plywood) strats. If a guitar looks like crap because of the wood I probably wouldn't buy it but my ears would determine if it sounds good not my eyes or my head.


That reminds, me Kerry, of some comments here over the years, how some top guitar players have made some very cheap guitars sing.


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

I generally agree with most of the sentiments given so far: try before buying, if you like the sound who cares about a single variable, the importance (or lack thereof) of an electric guitars "tone" wood. 

However, resale value is affected by these sorts of anomalies, and outside of hardcore guitar nerds who join internet forums, these things can be deal breakers. 

Perhaps I'm viewing this as too much of an economic transaction rather than adding a musical tool to the arsenal.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

crann said:


> I generally agree with most of the sentiments given so far: try before buying, if you like the sound who cares about a single variable, the importance (or lack thereof) of an electric guitars "tone" wood.
> 
> However, resale value is affected by these sorts of anomalies, and outside of hardcore guitar nerds who join internet forums, these things can be deal breakers.
> 
> *Perhaps I'm viewing this as too much of an economic transaction rather than adding a musical tool to the arsenal.*


Financial considerations can sometimes be important. Buying a brand name product can hold its value or if you get a good deal, you might make a little bit when/if you sell it. On the same hand a lesser known brand will cost you less and if/when you sell it you will also lose less unless you get a good deal, you might make a little bit. 

If really comes down to percentages. You will make or lose the same percentage whether it be a brand name or a lesser known brand.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Never mind the superfluous nonsense. Go try out that Fender and see if you like it. That's my 'expert' opinion.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

Steadfastly said:


> If really comes down to percentages. You will make or lose the same percentage whether it be a brand name or a lesser known brand.


multiple studies have shown that you have better resale value with a better known brand


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

crann said:


> However, resale value is affected by these sorts of anomalies, and outside of hardcore guitar nerds who join internet forums, these things can be deal breakers.


Outside of hardcore guitar nerds on forums, no one cares if it's poplar... they just care that it's an American strat.


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

MusicMan used poplar quite often but it referred to it as select hardwood


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

rollingdam said:


> MusicMan used poplar quite often but it referred to it as* select hardwood*



That is very understandable. I had a couple of large poplar trees in my back yard which i figured had lived about as long as their healthy life was going to give them, so I *"selected"* them to come down and got my chainsaw out last year and_* "selectively'*_ brought them to the ground. Then they *"selectiv*ely" got cut up, split and again went *"selectively'* into my wood stove and once again joined the atmosphere, which *"selectively"* placed them wher old poplar trees go.

Except for the splittling and burning, I would suspect the guitar mfrs. do a similar selecting but not in my backyard.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Dorian2 said:


> Never mind the superfluous nonsense. Go try out that Fender and see if you like it. That's my 'expert' opinion.


Right?


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## Roryfan (Apr 19, 2010)

gtrguy said:


> Outside of hardcore guitar nerds on forums, no one cares if it's poplar... they just care that it's an American strat.


My internet-fuelled cork sniffery has been tempered by actual guitars that sounded quite good in real life. 

This thread reminds me of a mid-90s Am. Std. I acquired from @davetcan several years ago that had the much maligned blown-in burst on the cutaway to mask the veneer over bad wood (perhaps poplar and/or multiple pieces of alder, etc.). 

The neck had a lovely grain (IIRC it was quartersawn), the pickups had been upgraded, it rang like a bell unplugged & pushed a much more expensive (i.e. at least double) Anderson out the door. The only person who seemed to care was a Kijiji flipper who sent me an essay about how shitty 90s Strats were and then proceeded to msg me daily trying to buy it for next to nothing (if it's such a horrible guitar, why do you want it so bad?).

Go play it & listen with your ears, not your eyes.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Budda said:


> Right?


Just my take on how this somehow turned into a tonewood debate for no real apparent reason. Same old same old from same old poster.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Dorian2 said:


> Just my take on how this somehow turned into a tonewood debate for no real apparent reason. Same old same old from same old poster.


So you think it is better to not give the facts to someone who may be misled by mfrs. marketing and keep them in the dark, than give them the facts? That seems like the unkind thing to do. 

If, on the other hand, if you have tests that prove there are discernable differences in different woods in an electric guitar, we would all like to see them and be educated by you.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> If, on the other hand, if you have tests that prove there are discernable differences in different woods in an electric guitar, we would all like to see them and be educated by you.


Enjoy-

http://acoustics.ippt.gov.pl/index.php/aa/article/download/2287/pdf_389


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Steadly give it up man.


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## JBFairthorne (Oct 11, 2014)

While I can’t specifically speak to the ‘91s, I’ve had a ‘93...since ‘94 and in most respects it’s an excellent guitar. My only complaint is that the poly finish is so thick it almost seems to deaden the resonance of the wood (but it sure is durable, the red still pops). My ‘08 and ‘11 are MUCH livelier with thinner paint finishes.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

So back to the OP. I owned a 1991 American Strat. I bought it used in the late 90s and owned it until just a few years ago. It had everything “wrong“ about it. The swimming pool pick up route, the wrong wood, etc. etc. The simple fact is, it was a good guitar and served me well. So much is made about the “right“ specs and features, but really just go play the thing and see if you like it. The good thing is, you can take all the Internet “wisdom“ and use it to your advantage when buying it. I had a really hard time moving mine, to the point of almost giving it away on this board.

I only sold mine because a dealer on this board won a brand new (2014?) Strat because he had met some type of sales benchmark and fender sent him a guitar as a gift. He didn’t need the guitar and couldn’t sell it in his store, so he put it up for sale here as a private sale at an unbelievable price. I bought it without playing it and it turned out to be just an amazing guitar. I preferred the new one, but that doesn’t mean my 1991 was a bad guitar. In fact, had such a deal not emerged out of nowhere, I never would’ve been shopping for a new Strat.


So in short, go play it and see if you like it. I don’t put much stock in years and features, it’s more important to just play the actual guitar.

TG


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

One thing that might help the OP make the decision is the hardness of the wood and certain possible issues you could run into if you tend to MOD and take apart guitars constantly. There's a better chance of a screw stripping softer wood with looser grains than a guitar with harder wood and tighter grain. Apart from the difference in resonance of the 2 woods, which contributes to the Tonewoodality of the piece


Steadfastly said:


> So you think it is better to not give the facts to someone who may be misled by mfrs. marketing and keep them in the dark, than give them the facts? That seems like the unkind thing to do.
> 
> If, on the other hand, if you have tests that prove there are discernable differences in different woods in an electric guitar, we would all like to see them and be educated by you.


Sure. My own ears attached to my head are irrefutable proof that I know exactly what I'm talking about. I can guarantee that the combination of the Mahogany body and Maple top on my LP is far and away different than the sound and resonance peaks of the Alder bodied Tele I own. The Rosewood and Maple fingerboards and Maple/Mahogany necks also have a major contributing factor. What more can I say?


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## sillyak (Oct 22, 2016)

$1000 is a bit steep for a 91 though is it not?

I bought a 2012 Am Standard for $900 on Kijiji recently for price reference.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

I wonder if that Puck guy will make an appearance?


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## jayoldschool (Sep 12, 2013)

I've got a nice 1989 American Standard that I'd let go if you want another option. Midnight Blue, rosewood, original case. The early AS Strats are really nice.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

gtrguy said:


> Enjoy-
> 
> http://acoustics.ippt.gov.pl/index.php/aa/article/download/2287/pdf_389


This is for acoustics. If you read my other posts, I agree that it almost always makes a difference for acoustics although there are other factors at work there. 

Here we are talking about solid body guitars. Reading posts thoroughly before you post gives more credence to a reply.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> This is for acoustics. If you read my other posts, I agree that it almost always makes a difference for acoustics although there are other factors at work there.
> 
> Here we are talking about solid body guitars. Reading posts thoroughly before you post gives more credence to a reply.


Yes, I would suggest reading thoroughly which is something YOU obviously did not do. Acoustics is a peer-reviewed quarterly journal publishing original research papers from all areas of acoustics (the science, not the guitars) and abstracts from some specialised acoustical conferences. The article, had you bothered to look, is titled "Selection of Wood Based on Acoustic Properties for the *Solid Body* of Electric Guitar"...

I await your apology.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

The only disadvantage I see to poplar is it is on the soft side of hardwoods and would show dings easier than alder.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Speaking of 'credence', posting some kind of 'proof' for made up 'facts' would also help that poster's.


As to the OP, guitars straddle the line between art and science (my old mentor used to say any tech with more than seven variables is closer to art than science). What makes a guitar good or bad can't be explained only in a list of specs, it is more complex than that. There are clunky '59 LP's and there are fairly good $300 Chinese guitars (which are of course the exception and not the rules, but they do happen).

The only way to know is to play it. And play a lot of other guitars so you know what you want and you know what's good or bad. Buying a guitar on specs alone is akin to buying a precious jemstone on carats and price alone.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

knight_yyz said:


> The only disadvantage I see to poplar is it is on the soft side of hardwoods and would show dings easier than alder.


This is a good point, not only dings but structural integrity. Years ago in another life doing guitar repairs for a living I had a customer with a guitar from that era who used quite heavy strings and tended to be pretty... shall we say "vigorous" with his use of the tremolo. On his particular poplar strat, the body wood started to compress at the bridge posts allowing them to slowly migrate forward over time until they cracked the wood between the trem pivot insert and the pickup cavity (having the swimming pool route didn't help). Routing a channel and filling it in with maple solved the problem permanently. As far as I know he's still using that guitar.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Aren't the original Telecasters made of pine? Can't get much softer than that unless you use balsa wood


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

gtrguy said:


> This is a good point, not only dings but structural integrity. Years ago in another life doing guitar repairs for a living I had a customer with a guitar from that era who used quite heavy strings and tended to be pretty... shall we say "vigorous" with his use of the tremolo. On his particular poplar strat, the body wood started to compress at the bridge posts allowing them to slowly migrate forward over time until they cracked the wood between the trem pivot insert and the pickup cavity (having the swimming pool route didn't help). Routing a channel and filling it in with maple solved the problem permanently. As far as I know he's still using that guitar.


To add to your point about the Maple. I certainly don't have your knowledge or experience with the Tech, but when I was looking into shimming my Squier strat neck I specifically went to get some maple because of the lower compression factor. Compression also has a major influence to guitar string vibration and frequency response.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

knight_yyz said:


> Aren't the original Telecasters made of pine? Can't get much softer than that unless you use balsa wood


Expensive limited runs are also pine


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

One of the best workhorse guitars I have ever owned is a poplar bodied Jackson.

I share Steadfastly’s view that body wood species has very little impact on tone.

Pickups, construction design, bridge, nut all have much more influence on sound.


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

Thanks again to everyone, a much livelier conversation than I had expected!

$1000 is a bit high and the softness of poplar is something that might be a concern on a near 30 year old guitar. I guess you can say I like my woods hard?

I'm in the process of buying something else with the funds and will post it soon!

- Danny


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Milkman said:


> One of the best workhorse guitars I have ever owned is a poplar bodied Jackson.
> 
> I share Steadfastly’s view that body wood species has very little impact on tone.
> 
> Pickups, construction design, bridge, nut all have much more influence on sound.


Without a doubt I agree that pickups are the biggest contributor to the sound (changing pickups is the most effective way to change the sound of an electric guitar) of an instrument along with the bridge, and scale length. The nut I might debate a bit since it really only has an effect on the open strings but on those I agree has an effect. I believe the wood makes a difference but it's not the biggest contributor.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

gtrguy said:


> Yes, I would suggest reading thoroughly which is something YOU obviously did not do. Acoustics is a peer-reviewed quarterly journal publishing original research papers from all areas of acoustics (the science, not the guitars) and abstracts from some specialised acoustical conferences. The article, had you bothered to look, is titled "Selection of Wood Based on Acoustic Properties for the *Solid Body* of Electric Guitar"...
> 
> I await your apology.


Now, give me the tests where it makes a noticeable difference in an electric guitar. That is what I asked for, not some printed material that says it does it. Show me facts, not jargon.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Steadfastly said:


> Now, give me the tests where it makes a noticeable difference in an electric guitar. That is what I asked for, not some printed material that says it does it. Show me facts, not jargon.


.......demands the guy who never, ever provides proof for any of his outrageous claims (like the idea that there's some big movement of players who think various guitar types will be replaced by cheap MFX units).

When asked, what we get is ........


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Now, give me the tests where it makes a noticeable difference in an electric guitar. That is what I asked for, not some printed material that says it does it. Show me facts, not jargon.


I guess government funded research published in a peer reviewed scientific journal isn't factual enough for you? Maybe it was over your head with too much "jargon"? There's a later (2018 if I recall correctly) expanded version of the same paper that includes lots of pretty pictures and easy to understand frequency graphs. Maybe that's more your speed.

But whatever, continue to believe whatever you wish, but please don't present those beliefs as facts in the face of reality.

And I'm still waiting for a gentlemanly apology from you for essentially making me out to be an idiot that can't read.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

To the OP- my apologies for derailing your thread.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

After 30 years the poplar is probably torrified or part way there


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

gtrguy said:


> I guess government funded research published in a peer reviewed scientific journal isn't factual enough for you? Maybe it was over your head with too much "jargon"? There's a later (2018 if I recall correctly) expanded version of the same paper that includes lots of pretty pictures and easy to understand frequency graphs. Maybe that's more your speed.
> 
> But whatever, continue to believe whatever you wish, but please don't present those beliefs as facts in the face of reality.
> 
> And I'm still waiting for a gentlemanly apology from you for essentially making me out to be an idiot that can't read.


Your page doesn't open. Regardless, it is still based on acoustic properties. If you want to prove your point, you must show the differences in the same guitar with different wood, done in an anechoic chamber with the frequencies recorded. When you get that, I will believe it and so should everyone else. 

Even in the acoustic field where wood matters greatly, the design of a guitar can make one kind of wood sound differently..


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Are you trying to move goalposts?


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Your page doesn't open. Regardless, it is still based on acoustic properties. If you want to prove your point, you must show the differences in the same guitar with different wood, done in an anechoic chamber with the frequencies recorded. When you get that, I will believe it and so should everyone else.
> 
> Even in the acoustic field where wood matters greatly, the design of a guitar can make one kind of wood sound differently..


Strange, it opens fine for me. Try copy pasting the address, maybe the forum is doing something odd to the link. The testing was done in a semi-anechoic chamber and all the testing methodology and equipment used is detailed in the article.

PS- still waiting for that apology for insulting my reading and comprehension abilities.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

As long as those goal posts are made of proper "tone wood"......


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Here's a link for proof if anyone is interested.  Not sure if it'll pass the Steadly Litmus test though.

Oem Acceptable Insulation Soundproof Device Room Anechoic Chamber - Buy Anechoic Chamber,Soundproof Device,Insulation Room Product on Alibaba.com


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Steadfastly said:


> Now, give me the tests where it makes a noticeable difference in an electric guitar. That is what I asked for, not some printed material that says it does it. Show me facts, not jargon.


google is your friend


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

gtrguy said:


> Strange, it opens fine for me. Try copy pasting the address, maybe the forum is doing something odd to the link. The testing was done in a semi-anechoic chamber and all the testing methodology and equipment used is detailed in the article.
> 
> PS- still waiting for that apology for insulting my reading and comprehension abilities.


Copy and paste it to me in a PM.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

http://acoustics.ippt.gov.pl/index.php/aa/article/download/2287/pdf_389


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## tomee2 (Feb 27, 2017)

There’s like 30 or more species of poplar in North America. Whatever Fender used might be nothing like the poplar trees we’re used to up here. Sort of like how the ash used is not like the ash trees up here. Unless you’re taking the pick guard off all the time there’s no reason to strip out screws. Besides poplar is fairly good at holding screws. 

Early 90s Strats are great. Ignore the body wood and veneer issues.


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

knight_yyz said:


> Aren't the original Telecasters made of pine? Can't get much softer than that unless you use balsa wood


Only for the prototype, and the first few. They promptly switched to Ash in 1950


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## cboutilier (Jan 12, 2016)

gtrguy said:


> Strange, it opens fine for me. Try copy pasting the address, maybe the forum is doing something odd to the link. The testing was done in a semi-anechoic chamber and all the testing methodology and equipment used is detailed in the article.
> 
> PS- still waiting for that apology for insulting my reading and comprehension abilities.


I can't get the link to open either. I'd very much like to read the article.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

cboutilier said:


> I can't get the link to open either. I'd very much like to read the article.



Ditto.


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## colchar (May 22, 2010)

As for the wood debate, Gibson's ES series are laminates and nobody bitches about that.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

@Steadfastly @cboutilier @colchar 

This is the 2018 version of the article with the added photos and graphs hosted on another website, hopefully you can open this one. It's a PDF btw.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0b02/93a2977f1729c7cf5b4d2c8fb40dee132f49.pdf


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

gtrguy said:


> @Steadfastly @cboutilier @colchar
> 
> This is the 2018 version of the article with the added photos and graphs hosted on another website, hopefully you can open this one. It's a PDF btw.
> 
> https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0b02/93a2977f1729c7cf5b4d2c8fb40dee132f49.pdf




That looks like a pile of marketing jargon made up by Bruce fender and Wayne Gibson.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

RBlakeney said:


> That looks like a pile of marketing jargon made up by Bruce fender and Wayne Gibson.


Sarcasm?


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## RBlakeney (Mar 12, 2017)

gtrguy said:


> Sarcasm?


Bruce Wayne.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

For anyone who is truly interested, there are a number of interesting articles in the references section of that PDF.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

RBlakeney said:


> Bruce Wayne.


I'm the Batman...


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)




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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I'm just reading through it now. Thanks for the link gtrguy.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Dorian2 said:


> I'm just reading through it now. Thanks for the link gtrguy.


You're very welcome. Some other interesting articles listed in the References section.


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

colchar said:


> As for the wood debate, Gibson's ES series are laminates and nobody bitches about that.


Not to stir up another pot, but I've always found this interesting. I get why solid flame LPs are more expensive than plain tops, but charging more for a flame top ES335 is wild. The body is laminate, so the flame is laminate/veneer. We (guitar nerds) turn our noses up at solidbody guitars for having foto tops, but Gibson can essentially do the same thing and we salivate. Not trying to insult anyone with a flame ES335, I'd take one in a heartbeat, but this double standard is amusing.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

IME, the upcharge for a flamed thin-line (ES335) or hollowbody (Gretsch 6120) is minimal compared to the upcharge for a solid top of flame wood, like an LP or PRS. 

And talking about a thinline or hollowbody being less than desirable because it's laminate is silly, because that's the way they've always been. Always. Gretsch does make one or two solid spruce top hollowbodies models but they are the exception not the the rule for that style of guitar. 

There is a place for laminates, in some cases it is a step down (generally in acoustics), in others it isn't, it is the way the guitar was designed and intended to be. Not all guitars are designed to be the same or be directly comparable.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

You do know that veneer is the best of the best of the best wood? After a tree is chopped the best part is made into veneers and then it is chopped into pieces. That is why real veneers are so expensive. You will see more figuring on the veneers than the 2x6s from the same tree

And to be clear, I am not talking about plywood.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Looking forward to see what you end up getting if not the '91.

I'll be "that guy" here. Sorry @crann . I just spent 30 minutes reading through the article. You're up Steadly...



Steadfastly said:


> Now, give me the tests where it makes a noticeable difference in an electric guitar. That is what I asked for, not some printed material that says it does it. Show me facts, not jargon.


The article goes through exactly what you've asked for.



Steadfastly said:


> Your page doesn't open. Regardless, it is still based on acoustic properties. If you want to prove your point, you must show the differences in the same guitar with different wood, done in an anechoic chamber with the frequencies recorded. When you get that, I will believe it and so should everyone else.
> 
> Even in the acoustic field where wood matters greatly, the design of a guitar can make one kind of wood sound differently..


Lots of charts and graphs at your disposal in the article. There are also some great Physics equations layed out if you choose to disprove the article. BTW. Acoustic properties of solid bodied guitars is exactly what we've been talking about through the entire debate. There's some great stuff in the article on the compression ratios of the 2 woods they tested (Ash and Walnut) and the frequency responses. Among many other things. They even included the pickup routes in the tests.



Steadfastly said:


> Copy and paste it to me in a PM.


The link also didn't work for me, but it was my quick assessment that he'd get the info out here. Just curious why you asked for a PM of the material that @gtrguy tried to supply? Any reason?

Looking forward to your response.


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

I wasn't trying to say anything bad about laminate hollowbodies, I have a Gretsch 6136ltv and love it. Mostly commenting about the price difference between laminate plaintops and laminate flames.


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## crann (May 10, 2014)

@Dorian2 No worries, I already got what I needed from this thread, and I think most people are enjoying where it's shifted to.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I'm enjoying this thread!!  And I learned more about '91 starts and hollowbodies to boot!


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Dorian2 said:


> I'm enjoying this thread!!  And I learned more about '91 starts and hollowbodies to boot!


Startocasters?


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Milkman said:


> Startocasters?


Ops


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

crann said:


> I wasn't trying to say anything bad about laminate hollowbodies, I have a Gretsch 6136ltv and love it. Mostly commenting about the price difference between laminate plaintops and laminate flames.


Which is due to the fact that the highly figured veneers are more expensive than plain veneers. It's like buying filet mignon and comparing it to brisket....


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Dorian2 said:


> Ops


Sorry. I seem to be developing lysdexia myself.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

knight_yyz said:


> Which is due to the fact that the highly figured veneers are more expensive than plain veneers. It's like buying filet mignon and comparing it to brisket....



Mmmmmm brisket.....


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

gtrguy said:


> @Steadfastly @cboutilier @colchar
> 
> This is the 2018 version of the article with the added photos and graphs hosted on another website, hopefully you can open this one. It's a PDF btw.
> 
> https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0b02/93a2977f1729c7cf5b4d2c8fb40dee132f49.pdf


As I suspected, the study is about wood, not the difference in tone in a guitar using different wood. We all know wood has different characteristics. All this study does is prove that point. 

If you can find a study that shows a guitar made with all the same parts except for two different woods and the sound differences when tested in an anechoic chamber, please post it. I would be very interested in seeing that. I am sure many others would be too.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> As I suspected, the study is about wood, not the difference in tone in a guitar using different wood. We all know wood has different characteristics. All this study does is prove that point.
> 
> If you can find a study that shows a guitar made with all the same parts except for two different woods and the sound differences when tested in an anechoic chamber, please post it. I would be very interested in seeing that. I am sure many others would be too.



Hahahahaha... you're obviously either oblivious to what's being demonstrated in that paper or you're not interested in learning anything and prefer to simply cling to your own ideas in the face of facts. Anyhow, I'm done trying to discuss this as if you were rational human being. Good day to you sir.


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## knight_yyz (Mar 14, 2015)

Milkman said:


> Startocasters?


Thought I was on Rinkya for a moment there.


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## GuitarT (Nov 23, 2010)

Guys, stop feeding the troll.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Original post removed. This is beyond mere guitar talk at this point.


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