# Vintage vs Jumbo frets



## ccuwan

Nearly all guitars made these days have large frets including most of my own. I just bought a Jerry Donahue tele with vintage frets and I love them. Being small, I can set the action really low without any fret buzz, even while heavy chording. Finger or chord sliding is so nice without big frets in the way.

What I don't understand is why medium to large frets have become the standard.....what is their advantage?

Attached is a pole to determine preference and my bet is Jumbo will win

This picture is from the Warmoth site and should help with the pole selection.










Ray


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## hollowbody

I prefer Jumbos because I do a lot of vibrato and bending. Re: your question about why jumbos? Bending it easier on them, especially if you have a flatter radius guitar.

But I'm with you regarding the height. I don't like particularly tall frets. Wide and low for me!


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## naisen

Can't say what i prefer, I have 3 guitars and they are all mediums. i think its sort of like tires, you want your new tires to have lots of tread. jumbo frets give you lots of metal, vintage frets seem like you are getting sort of ripped off. But then again, the real high performance car tires don't have a ton of tread.


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## Phlegethon

going with the XJ frets . . the pseudo scalloping effect that they have works very well with how I fret notes. while XJ frets require a lighter touch in comparison to vintage frets. . I liken the difference to how a family sedan performs vs. a racing car trying to set a fast lap on a track. if you're willing to deal with some of the potential drawbacks (and your style suits the XJ's) they're capable of rewarding you with cleaner notes and tactile feedback which is really useful if you're looking to get that extra oomph out of a guitar


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## Gretsch6120

Can't play any type of fender vintage frets, to small I don't know how anyone does?


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## Powdered Toast Man

I have gutiars with vintage, medium-jumbo, and jumbo. The jumbo frets seem really big at first, but once you play them for a bit they're actually quite comfortable. I like all three.


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## zontar

Let's see, my Les Paul (70's variety) has the fretless wonder style frets that are almost not there.
My Ibanez has large tall frets.
My others are in between.

And you know what?
I love them all.

They all serve their purpose, and I have no real preference.
But if I were to make or order a custom guitar, I'd use medium frets to meet in the middle.


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## al3d

i'm a 6105 my self..


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## Tim Plains

The jumbo frets Gibson uses on their historics are perfect for me. For a Tele, though, I'm the opposite. I've had two Teles with vintage frets and for some reason, they're great on Teles.


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## faracaster

Jumbos for me in general.
But 6105's are cool too. There is A LOT of difference in feel between the nickel and Stainless steel frets. The SS frets are much more slinky so therefore make it easier to bend heavier gauge strings with. So if I use 6105 SS frets I feel I don't need to go to jumbos. But nicely worn in jumbos are perfect for me. Worn in meaning, dressed a few times.
It also has a lot to do with the guitar itself. There are just some guitars that play fine with smaller frets. Also.....the fret size affects the sound substantially. The smaller fret allows a certain "woodiness" of the guitar to come through. 

Cheer
Pete


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## Sparrow Guitars

I thought I was in to big frets. My problem is I'm a hack to start with. I play punk rock and I am pretty heavy handed. I put some real big frets into a Jr for myself and I have to think a lot when I'm playing it, or else I press too hard and bend everything out of tune. Just put little frets in a jr and for me, it is a lot easier to play, and I don't have to think about not pressing too hard. I know I should just learn how to play, but for me rock and roll is a feeling, and I don't like thinking through it, I just want to wail it out!


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## ccuwan

hollowbody said:


> I prefer Jumbos because I do a lot of vibrato and bending. Re: your question about why jumbos? Bending it easier on them, especially if you have a flatter radius guitar.


 I do a lot of bending and vibrato as well and I've read somewhere before that bending is easier or at least less likely to deaden against another fret on a larger fretted guitar. I'm sure there is mathematical proof of that expectation but the part that doesn't add up is Jerry Donahue is best know for his bending and of course is a vintage fret advocate.

I guess at the end of the day it is all personal preference and today, my first ever vintage fret guitar is pick of the litter. I guess one could suggest that I am cheating on my once favorites and if history repeats itself........


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## keto

Sparrow Guitars said:


> I thought I was in to big frets. My problem is I'm a hack to start with. I play punk rock and I am pretty heavy handed. I put some real big frets into a Jr for myself and I have to think a lot when I'm playing it, or else I press too hard and bend everything out of tune. Just put little frets in a jr and for me, it is a lot easier to play, and I don't have to think about not pressing too hard. I know I should just learn how to play, but for me rock and roll is a feeling, and I don't like thinking through it, I just want to wail it out!


Couldn't have said it better, describes me very well also. I have some variety of fret sizes available here but my go-to for the past several years has been a Tele (62RI) with round radius and vintage frets. Wail away (whale away) on it without worrying that my death grip is taking it *too* out of tune. I don't spend much time soloing but I can do bends without fretting out, so that doesn't seem to be an issue for me.


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## CocoTone

I think folks that like big frets, tend to also like high action, big strings, and generally play very heavy-handed. We all know high action rings like a bell better, with far less string /fret rattle. Small frets, you'll tend to be more chord-related, finger pickers. YMMV

CT.


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## Rwinder

i prefer a medium to vintage, or even slightly worn mediums. jumbos just get in the way.


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## kdwace

I guess medium-jumbo frets are easier to play and last longer?


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## Bobby

CocoTone said:


> I think folks that like big frets, tend to also like high action, big strings, and generally play very heavy-handed. We all know high action rings like a bell better, with far less string /fret rattle. Small frets, you'll tend to be more chord-related, finger pickers. YMMV
> 
> CT.


i agree with everything your saying,except for the heavy-handed part. i mean,look at people like Yngwie,who even has his neck scalloped,big(bass,smaller trble) strings,and big frets. he cant play the way he does in a "heavy handed" manner,it couldnt be accurate.i guess someone like SRV did alot of the time(play more heavy handed,but most people when they are picking precisely and quickly,have to have a more controlled approach.

i mean,i use 11-52 strings have high action,jumbo frets,and i hardly move my right hand at all while im playing.unless im really slamming into chords and letting them ring out,trying to look like a rock star.

and some people with low action and small string ex:Shawn Lane. have,(or had,in his case),the guitar set up like that because its just easier to play fast that way,its a sacrifice i guess depending on which side you want to err on.

everything you said about action,size of strings,string rattle,and tone all interacting,that was all spot on to me. i only disagree that smaller strings/frets= more chordal,lighter approach,and vice versa. im not sure that correlation necessarily exists in general. not in my own experience and what ive seen and heard,anyway.

Bobby


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## SirMyghin

I am partial to 6100 (jumbo, .55 tall) It gives the scalloped effect so not sure what to vote, picked jumbo. Trying to land the board will get your sharp with these, but why would you want to. I have some very nice SS jumbos, smooth as glass and never wearing. SS frets are something I swear buy nowadays, I am spoiled I know. Jumbos are also good practice for that light touch we all need, no wasted muscle energy .


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## guitarman2

I have pretty much always played Jumbos up until I got my Custom shop Nocaster. I do have some trouble with bends but for the most part they are all right. The Crook I am about to pickup has taller narrow frets.


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## robertkoa

I like TRUE medium jumbos- not what Fender calls Medium Jumbos but what Carvin, Suhr and Anderson call Medium Jumbos which are .048 high and about .104 wide, so they are closer to a Jumbo than to a Medium but you don't need a real light touch to play them without going sharp.

They are Big but not Huge, Godzilla's T Rex little brother kinda.


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## digital6string

I have two neck's from Warmoth with stainless steel jumbo fret's and absolutely love the feel of string bending on these fret's.One is a strat type and the other a tele.Probably no noticable difference in over all sound and a little harder to refret but under normal use these will out last regular stainless steel fret's.Three years, and no sign of wear on the first neck I ordered.


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## Archer

I look for a tall fret most of the time. When I get my instruments refretted I get jumbo frets to the 11th fret and tall narrows from the 12th fret to the highest fret.


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## fenderman79

Vintage for me. better action and pitch. remember...the larger the fret - the more bend or caving there is to the fret-board. This creates very slight pitch issues unless your touch is perfect.


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## Diablo

I think I like the feel of jumbo or XJ frets, but I suspect I probably sound better with something smaller i.e. medium, if that makes any sense?
In the end, I'm probably not that fussy about it one way or the other. Neck profile means more to me as I have relatively small hands for a big dude.


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## picky pete

I have several Fenders & Gibsons, both old & newer. I have no problem with bending & vibrato, neither on the Jumbo nor the thinner Frets. What I found out after I bought my new Les Paul & ES335, is that the Frets are too high for my liking. I compared them with my 1966 ES175d, which of course has much lower Frets. I use .009 to .042 Fender or Gibson strings and I get intonation problems, especially at the first three frets and 1st, 2nd & 3rd Strings. Also I get stuck sometimes when doing a typical 3 Fret slide.I don't like heavier strings as my playing stiffens up when I'm trying to bend and it slows me way down. I was told that Gibson was responding to Guitar player complaints about needing to re-fret too often?? I suppose if you play around 4 hours per day and only have one Guitar, that could be an issue. My local Luthier quoted me around $200.00 to file down the Frets and then make any necessary subsequent adjustments to the Nut, Bridge,etc...ie; Set-up. Forget that! I think Gibson should offer both High & low Frets, and I ask that anyone who agrees on this to e-mail them as I did to request this.


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## robertkoa

Hey- you guys with Stainless , help me out here.

You know how on Nickel Frets you can vibrato a note with finger vibrato and the string SCRAPING or BOWING against the fret causes the note to Sustain.

On Stainless Frets - since there's far less Friction - can you still do this and sustain a note with Finger vibrato ( as long as you want to ) ?

Also the Gold EVO Frets- supposed to wear like stainless but real warm sound- they're on the Les Paul Supreme - anyone try them ?

Are the stainless really so slinky that you can go UP a string gauge and bend as easily?


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## FastFret

> On Stainless Frets - since there's far less Friction - can you still do this and sustain a note with Finger vibrato ( as long as you want to ) ?


I'd say slightly less time duration on ss but the difference is negligible. There is definitely less perceived friction between the string and the fret on ss, they feel like you are 'glassing' over the fret if that makes any sense.



> Are the stainless really so slinky that you can go UP a string gauge and bend as easily?


Yes. The bending really is effortless; I'm referring to jumbo size, though.


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## Decibel Guitars

My preference is narrow and tall. They're easier to level and get a nice crown on , and i think they intonate better for longer. The wider the fretwire, the worse your intonation gets as they wear down. 

Dunlop 6105 is my favourite profile.


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## Steadfastly

The 6100 seems to becoming more and more popular. I have jumbos now but I will try the 6100's on my next guitar neck.


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## Morkolo

I believe most of mine are Jumbo but my favorites would have to be the vintage ones. They just feel a little bit better.


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## ajcoholic

Most of my guitars I fret with a medium width, but taller height wire. I have used some medium/medium (which is what you would find on say a vintage repro Tele or Strat) as well and I like it. But I also have some guitar with a wide & medium height, and even a wide and tall (true jumbo) wire.

I cant say I have a favourite but to me certain wire suits certain guitars if that makes sense?

AJC


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## Presto1202

I have some guitars with smaller vintage frets and some with jumbo frets and the difference is not huge for me but between the two I'd have to say I have a slight preference for jumbo.


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## Steadfastly

The huge ones are the ones most commonly used on Ibanez guitars, I understand.


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## krall

Overall, I'd say jumbo.


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## CSBen

6105 to me really feel the best.


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## Harvester1199

6100 fan here


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## TWRC

6105 is my choice on my Fenders. A good majority of my strats have 6230 but I got my main Strat refretted years ago with 6105's and I'm positive I'll be going with these when my other guitars need to be refretted.


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## keefsdad

Refrets are expensive, I am poor, so.....I prefer jumbos, although I had a G&L Legacy once that had ridiculously high frets, they were like railroad ties or something. I could never get used to it.


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## Spellcaster

I can't stand huge frets. I just changed the neck on my Classic Vibe DuoSonic to get rid of the medium jumbo frets and maple board.....

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp43/spellcasterguitars/DuoSonic/IMGP2518.jpg


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## georgemg

keefsdad said:


> Refrets are expensive, I am poor, so.....I prefer jumbos.


I'm with you on this. The frets were getting pretty low on my Tele, so I started looking into getting it re-fretted. It ended up being cheaper for me to sell the neck and buy a newer one. I'm sure it would hurt the resale value on the guitar, but I'm (hopefully) never selling it. 

Other than super-small frets - don't like those much - I have no real preference with frets.


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## tobymanhattan

I definitely prefer smaller ones. I don't notice much of a difference when bending and it makes chord sliding so much easier.


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## RobQ

I won't buy a guitar with vintage frets.


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## BEACHBUM

At 64 I have spent a sizable portion of my 45 years of playing on the smaller frets before the bigger ones became popular and readily available. Perhaps for that reason I am not a fan of the vintage style frets. The first time I played the medium jumbos I remember thinking, "what an improvement". Chording was just as easy to finger and bends and slides went much more smoothly not having my finger pads drag along the fret board. The commonly held notion is that the smaller vintage frets facilitate lower action. That is because the strings are closer to the fretboard making them appear to be lower than with the larger frets. However string action is measured not from the fretboard to the bottom of the string but from the crown of the fret to the bottom of the string. That being the case, and all else being equal, on any given guitar the achievable action is exactly the same regardless of fret size. Everyone has their preferences and it's nice to have the choices available that we have today. But, for my part I just don't see any advantages to the vintage frets.


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## Spellcaster

BEACHBUM said:


> .................... But, for my part I just don't see any advantages to the vintage frets.


The advantage is most apparent to people like me who play a variety of instruments. Switching between acoustic guitar, Strats and Teles, and basses tends to give a player a heavy touch. It's too easy to put the guitar out of tune by pressing too hard.


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## Shark

RobQ said:


> I won't buy a guitar with vintage frets.


I owned a vintage Strat that I refretted with jumbo fretwire.  

Of course, I'd never do that with a _really_ vintage model, but this one was late 70s and I've always bought 'em to play on.


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## Lemmy Hangslong

Not into vintage frets... dont mind narrow but height is very important to me... I dont like to feel too much wood under the fret... I like a more scalloped feel. My vote is for jumbo and huge frets. I like both.

Here are the advantages... better bending and vibrato, better pull offs... and some say better sustain but I think this is due to being able to maintain string contact with the fret better... 

sorry but frets afecting action is a mith. Action is measureed from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string and is affected only by nut height, neck relief and pitch, fret dress and bridge set up... not by fret height or width.

Low frets... better for hammer ons especially if you have a heavy hand. Disadvantage harder to get flesh under strings so makes it easier to slip off the string during bending and vibrato and pulls offs requires more omph.

Jumbo frets became super popular in the 80's... many lead players like them 

Randy Rhoads preferred short vintage frets because of his hammer on heavy style and that the pitch did not go sharp.

Intonation can be effected by fret profile but thats more of a maintenance issue.

just my 2 cents and my prefferances and opinion.


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## Diablo

I think its whatever youre used to....Over the past decade or so, Ive been playing guitars with large frets. when I excavated my old Explorer from the basement last year, its tiny frets felt awful to play...Yet, 20+ years ago, it was my main guitar and I loved it.


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## Jim DaddyO

My home built strat has huge frets and I have to be really careful because I am a heavy handed player with a death grip. Perhaps smaller frets are more for me.


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## Ferro-Kings

Jumbos no doubt... converted a few years back and I love them.


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## b-nads

I hate jumbos with a passion...gotta buy new strings every 2nd week.


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## keefsdad

I don't mind the feel of vintage frets, but I guess I play kind of hard because I burn through them pretty quick. Re-frets are expensive.


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## Waterloo

I have vintage frets on my (of course) vintage '52 reissue tele. I'm wearing through these suckers at an unbelievable rate. Wondering if a wide/medium fret is the better way to go next time around.


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## Steadfastly

For playability, I can't see why anyone would want anything but jumbo and the only reason for something smaller would be for restoration of something that is seen as a collector item.


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## Bubb

I don't have a preference at all actually.I don't have any problem bending on vintage size fretwire..
Makes no real difference to me,certainly not a deal breaker.
never really give it any thought to be honest


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## b-nads

I played acoustic all my life - only started playing electrics about 2 years ago, and my acoustics always had medium frets. I play very heavy handed, I bend a lot, and jumbo frets turn my strings into saw blades in no time - they all bend up over the frets on a, d, g, and b, and the winds get cut off.


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## Blue Velvet

I can't seem to find too much of a difference between them though except jumbo fretts look much better.


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