# Gibson 45 Acoustic: Top Issues....



## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

OK. This one goes out to luthiers, or anyone else with an informed opinion...

I have a Gibson WM-45 (Workin' Man's J-45) with some top issues. I acquired the guitar some years ago. Apparently someone had tried to repair a split in the top, running from the bridge back (see pic below). From what I understand, the "repair" went something like this: 1) Glue seam & squeeze; 2) Paint  the top; 3) Watch the seam re-open; 4) Remove bridge and strip the top finish; 5) Glue non-matching strip of wood into the seam and epoxy bridge onto top; 6) Refinish top in nitro.










My main concern isn't cosmetic, it's structural. Due to re-fin(s), the top is _now extremely_ thin (sunlight can be seen through the soundhole) . As a result, the top "lifts" around the bridge area and tuning can be a problem. On the plus side, the guitar _sounds_ great and is nice & loud. 

Anyway, should I simply have the top replaced so I no longer worry about it or is there a more economical alternative? Either way, what's it likely to cost to make it more structurally sound? Finally, who's available to do this kind of work? Again, any suggestions would be welcome at this point.

Steve


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## Lab123 (May 27, 2007)

Steve....I build acoustic instruments....Some of the thinks you are describing I understand,,,,Some I don't...Someone tried to repair a crack and did a bum job from what I can understand....The sound Is still loud and clear.... Which is the good part.....It seems that the problem is cosmetic....You don't like the look of the repaired crack.....Well Its not the best repair job that i have seen but the guitar is loud and clear....The belly bulges as it should ,,,,,Three months pregnant looking is good,,,,,Nine months pregnant looking is bad.......Sunlight through the sound hole I don't understand....But I can tell you this....average thickness of the top is approx .125 or a little less depending on the stiffness of the wood that was used....If you replace the top the sound will change..If it was my guitar and I liked the sound ,I would leave things well enough alone...If you decide that you want to refix this crack then make sure you get someone who knows what they are doing....That is a great looking top on that guitar....From what I can see it has lots of silk which means that wood was close to perfectly quarter sawn.....Larry


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Thanks Larry. I understand that some bulging is OK but am perplexed by tuning problems I'm having. I assumed (incorrectly?) that the two were related i.e. that the bridge lifting the top would throw tuning out. Also, the seam does appear to be separating _slightly_ again. 

So, perhaps my main concern is actually "tuning". Tuners are new & high quality so I really don't think that's the issue. Would having a luthier reinforce the top-to-brace adhesion help?


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## Lab123 (May 27, 2007)

Did you have the same problem before you changed the tuning machines?...did you change the pins and if so what are they made from...Plastic, bone,ivory..etc


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

Again, thanks for the response Larry. Tuners were changed out for cosmetic reasons, with no issues prior to that. Bridge pins are plastic and certainly seem tight in their holes. 

I should have inspected more closely before posting this because I'm now noticing some significant fret buzz. Top centre seam appears to have some minor separation as well. Now I'm thinking I should have the entire instrument inspected locally, by someone I can trust. Does anyone know where to go (in southeastern Ontario)?


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## rollingdam (May 11, 2006)

StevieMac said:


> Again, thanks for the response Larry. Tuners were changed out for cosmetic reasons, with no issues prior to that. Bridge pins are plastic and certainly seem tight in their holes.
> 
> I should have inspected more closely before posting this because I'm now noticing some significant fret buzz. Top centre seam appears to have some minor separation as well. Now I'm thinking I should have the entire instrument inspected locally, by someone I can trust. Does anyone know where to go (in southeastern Ontario)?


Gord at the Kingston Guitar Shop


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## Lab123 (May 27, 2007)

StevieMac said:


> Now I'm thinking I should have the entire instrument inspected locally, by someone I can trust. Does anyone know where to go (in southeastern Ontario)?


Steve...Thats the best thing you can do at this point....The reason I asked about the pin is this....When strings are installed using plastic pins the ball end of the string sometimes get jammed in the soft plastic ....The ball is not seated against the bridge plate and the string will loose its tension as it slowly slips to it proper position....This will not happen to all your strings at the same time and it is not the problem you have....Please let us know how things work out...Hopefully for the best .....


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

StevieMac said:


> Now I'm thinking I should have the entire instrument inspected locally, by someone I can trust. Does anyone know where to go (in southeastern Ontario)?


i also think this is what you should do. the light through the top, isn't that from the (re) separated top? the wood itself shouldn't have gotten any thinner from being refinished.... if the guitar sounds good and plays good, then the top is probably not the problem... more likely is that during the refinish, the bridge was removed, and put back on by eye-balling, which has thrown the intonation out..


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## Lab123 (May 27, 2007)

The thing of it is we are only guessing what the problem is ....If we had the guitar we could check the inside bracing, the action of the strings , the intonation,etc.......I could be wrong but if the guitar is sounding good then the intonation should be good also.....


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## suttree (Aug 17, 2007)

Lab123 said:


> The thing of it is we are only guessing what the problem is ...


truer words were never spoken. take the guitar to a pro, have it checked out properly....


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## StevieMac (Mar 4, 2006)

suttree said:


> the light through the top, isn't that from the (re) separated top? the wood itself shouldn't have gotten any thinner from being refinished


Light is diffuse i.e. seems to penetrate the whole top. I assumed the top was sanded in order to remove paint that had been applied earlier. Even _slight_ sanding, on .125 starting thickness, could make the top quite thin I think.

In any case, I'm now convinced that the guitar should indeed be inspected "stem to stern". Gord at The Kingston Guitar Shop is certainly the closest but has anyone used the repair services of Mike Anderson (Strings & Things) in Iroquois? Thanks again to those who have already helped out! 

Steve


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