# Gibson SG Standard



## Marlon (Sep 9, 2007)

I have a couple of questions about the sg...

1. How much does is weigh (i could'nt find this anywhere)
2. whats the diffrence between this one and a les paul
3. is it better for people that have small hands (i do)??
4. if you have one, do you like it??


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Marlon said:


> I have a couple of questions about the sg...
> 
> 1. How much does is weigh (i could'nt find this anywhere)
> 2. whats the diffrence between this one and a les paul
> ...




1. Less than a Les Paul (too light in my opinion as these guitars tend to be neck heavy)

2. Les Pauls are generally a mahogany back with a two piece maple top. They're heavier, have better sustain and are generally a higher quality guitar in general.

3. Should be no advantage for people with small hands. The neck feels like a typical Gibson neck to me.

4. I don't have one, but I have had one in the past. I couldn't get used to the neck heaviness and sold it.


----------



## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

I love my SG. Yes it is a bit neck heavy which is only an issue if you take your hands off the guitar and let it hang by the strap. They are very comfortable to play. I believe they weigh in the low to mid 6lbs (2.5-3 kg)


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

ne1roc said:


> I love my SG. Yes it is a bit neck heavy which is only an issue if you take your hands off the guitar and let it hang by the strap. They are very comfortable to play. I believe they weigh in the low to mid 6lbs (2.5-3 kg)


Actually for players who dislike neck heavy guitars it's NOT only an issue when we take our hands off the guitar.

I feel like I'm constantly applying upward pressure to keep the neck in playing position. It's not a lot of force but it's constantly there.

I do take my hands off the guitar a lot though.

It's a personal taste thing. Some of my favourite players are well known for using SGs.

Frank Zappa
Angus Young
Tony Iommi


----------



## PaulS (Feb 27, 2006)

I'll agree with the neck heavy feel. I had one for a bit and although they have great access and a rocking sound they take some getting use to in the feel department. Still I think they are a cool guitar.


----------



## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

Marlon said:


> I have a couple of questions about the sg...
> 
> 1. How much does is weigh (i could'nt find this anywhere)
> 2. whats the diffrence between this one and a les paul
> ...


1. My 2004 '61 RI SG weighs about 6lbs

2. As described, the thinner body and lack of a maple cap on the SG is the difference. The Les Paul is not a "higher quality guitar." This is an apples and oranges thing. 
The lighter one piece body makes an SG very midrange focused and wooly sounding. The thicker body on the Les Paul gives it more bottom, and the maple cap gives it better definition. Overall it has more of a hi-fi vibe than an SG. I personally prefer the SG tone and find it sits better in a band mix, but many people disagree. You have to try them both and see what speaks to you.

3. It's no better for small hands, but when buying a gibson look in the decription on their site to see if it has a 60s or 50s neck shape. 60s is much narrower, 50s is much thicker.

4. I love my SG. And for the record, mine is not neck heavy. I use a good leather strap and it doesn't move. I could stand with no hands on the guitar an bow (not something I ever get to do) and it would not move. Having said that, there are many neck heavy SGs out there so make sure to test with a strap when you are trying it out and make sure its comfortable for you. Actually, do the same when trying Les Pauls too. You will know pretty quick if you can deal with the Les Paul weight.

SG bodies are usually made of a single piece of wood. Becuase of that, their tone is more affected by the quality of wood than most guitars. Do not order online. Play as many as you can in person and you will get an idea on which ones are lively and which ones are dead.


----------



## bluezombie (May 7, 2007)

I've never played with one, so i can't say, but they seem like very nice guitars. I have, however, played an old melody maker in an SG shape recently, and it felt really nice. Doubt it's exactly like that nowadays though.


----------



## Mogwaii (Feb 16, 2007)

Milkman said:


> 1. Less than a Les Paul (too light in my opinion as these guitars tend to be neck heavy)
> 
> 2. Les Pauls are generally a mahogany back with a two piece maple top. They're heavier, have better sustain and are generally a higher quality guitar in general.
> 
> ...


Are you me?
I went through that same experience :banana:


----------



## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

My Epiphone LTD Edition SG-61 (made in Japan) is great. The neck is slightly wider than on my Epiphone LP Standard (Chinese) and maybe slightly thinner, but it's the perfect size for my hands and the width of my fingers. 

Its body is thinner than the LP. It fits the body a lot better than the LP because it's rounded. Your legs won't go numb after 30 minutes of playing while sitting like it does with the LP, which has square edges. 

It's made of mahogany only, but it seems brighter than the LP despite the lack of a maple cap (maybe because the body is thinner).


----------



## bluezombie (May 7, 2007)

Try out an SG yourself, and you'll know if it's right for you.


----------



## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

bluezombie said:


> Try out an SG yourself, and you'll know if it's right for you.


Right. Go to the music store. Try one out.


----------



## bluezombie (May 7, 2007)

Paul said:


> The problem there is that this isn't a good test of what your fretting arm will feel like after holding up the neck for 3 to 4 hours. I can't recall the last time I saw somebody in a music store put a strap on a guitar and try it out standing up. I can't recall the last time I tried out a new guitar standing up. I can't recall if I have _ever_ tried out a guitar in a store standing up.
> 
> There's a reason I don't play my ES 335 in the 3rd set.


I usually do, because a guitar has to be playable standing up to be really worth it. Even though sometimes it makes me look like a dick, i still pick up a guitar and walk and move around like i'm on stage :smilie_flagge17:


----------



## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

bluezombie said:


> I usually do, because a guitar has to be playable standing up to be really worth it. Even though sometimes it makes me look like a dick, i still pick up a guitar and walk and move around like i'm on stage :smilie_flagge17:


Completely agree.


----------



## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

bluezombie said:


> I usually do, because a guitar has to be playable standing up to be really worth it. Even though sometimes it makes me look like a dick, i still pick up a guitar and walk and move around like i'm on stage :smilie_flagge17:


So you were the guy I saw doing the Angus Young routine! :smile:

Honestly, like give me a break about the weight of the neck issue. Its not that big a deal. The best advice is to try out the guitar himself.


----------



## Gene Machine (Sep 22, 2007)

*I Do!*



Paul said:


> The problem there is that this isn't a good test of what your fretting arm will feel like after holding up the neck for 3 to 4 hours. I can't recall the last time I saw somebody in a music store put a strap on a guitar and try it out standing up. I can't recall the last time I tried out a new guitar standing up. I can't recall if I have _ever_ tried out a guitar in a store standing up.
> 
> There's a reason I don't play my ES 335 in the 3rd set.


I actually have tried many guitars standing up, and I ask the staff to lend me a strap. If I am going to spend $1500 for a guitar, damn right i'm going to test it out for a while, in many situations.

I try guitars first without an amp. if i like it i plug it in. if it looks promising plugged in, i'll immediately ask for a strap and start trying things while standing up. It may take a couple hours if i'm really serious about an expensive guitar. It took me about 3 hours to choose my first les paul, and i played about 7 or 8 of them that day. But it was $1900 US.


I tried the SG, and in fact do find it neck heavy. Although I love the tone, always holding onto the neck drives me crazy. I got rid of a epi sheraton for the same reason. I do find ES335s to be balanced properly, probably the big epi headstock. that's a whole different thread....


good luck with the SG if you like it. ymmv


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

For those of us who are bothered by a neck heavy guitar, it is indeed a big deal.

It's a bigger deal than crappy pickups or a poorly cut nut. Those things can be corrected. The bandaid approach of using a leather strap that tends to grab your shirt is a nonstarter for me.


I don't really care how a guitar feels sitting down because I almost never play sitting down. I see no need to sit and play. Even at rehearsals I stand. Why get used to doing a song and then change a basic element?


It's a very fundamental requirements for me that a guitar be well balanced. If I take my hands off the neck I want it to tend to rise or stay put, not fall.


It's a matter of personal preferences.


----------



## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Milkman said:


> It's a matter of personal preferences.


Which is exactly why he should try one out.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

ne1roc said:


> Which is exactly why he should try one out.



Again though, people often don't notice things like neck heaviness in the store. It's one of the first things I check.


----------



## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

Me too Milkmiester.

At 5,7 the neck will hit the ground.

Ages ago I had a Hagstrom that looked like an SG It was neck heavy and I got rid of it.

Before that I had a 63 SG Special it was gone for the same reason.

But that's just me. Everybody else likes them. You know Little Angus, Carlos used to play one. Even B.B. Live at the Regal.


----------



## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)




----------



## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Paul said:


> Can we agree that this is neck heavy?
> 
> http://www.hamerguitars.com/?fa=news&art=330&news_type=8


He he. I think we all agree the sg neck can be a little heavy too.


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

ne1roc said:


> He he. I think we all agree the sg neck can be a little heavy too.


Nothing a nice thick leather strap can't remedy.


----------



## bluezombie (May 7, 2007)

ne1roc said:


> He he. I think we all agree the sg neck can be a little heavy too.


You can hang a couple of dumbells on the body side :wink:


----------



## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

bluezombie said:


> You can hang a couple of dumbells on the body side :wink:


 Actually, I was originally looking for a good picture to photoshop with counter weights hanging off the body before I found Jack!

:food-smiley-004:


----------



## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> Nothing a nice thick leather strap can't remedy.


I agree 100%. Thats what I use! :food-smiley-004:


----------



## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

Paul said:


> The problem there is that this isn't a good test of what your fretting arm will feel like after holding up the neck for 3 to 4 hours. I can't recall the last time I saw somebody in a music store put a strap on a guitar and try it out standing up. I can't recall the last time I tried out a new guitar standing up. I can't recall if I have _ever_ tried out a guitar in a store standing up.
> 
> There's a reason I don't play my ES 335 in the 3rd set.


 The neck doesn't have to be heavy for the guitar to be 'top heavy'. Far from it. It just means that it isn't well balanced. The whole guitar weighs, what, 6 or 7 pounds? Either way, it's incredibly light. Unless you've got serious medical problems, or Keith Richard's arms, you should be able to hold up a couple of pounds without straining yourself too bad, right?


----------



## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

ne1roc said:


> I agree 100%. Thats what I use! :food-smiley-004:


Yeah, the guitar is light so the friction from the strap on your shoulder is more than enough to ensure that the neck doesn't hit the ground if you let it go.


----------



## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...i have an eastwood sg copy with bare knuckle "the mule" pickups and a neck that has been brought up to pro specs by the 12th fret.

yup, its a player.

-dh


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> Nothing a nice thick leather strap can't remedy.


We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

All that does is make it feel like your shirt is being dragged to the ground along with the neck. It's a band aid solution. Solving the root cause and balancing the guitar properly would be much better IMO.


----------



## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> Maybe you could go shirtless? Or.....make like the RHCP and wear one sock. I'm not sure I'd want to see that.:smile:
> 
> And speaking of balanced guitars......If I had to pick a guitar for you, I'd start with a Parker Fly....have you tried one? Thoughts?


I haven't tried one but I like the design. I just prefer a FR for guitars with trems and Parker has their own trem design. Still definitely worth a try.

I may try a Godin soon.

Really I think my next guitar purchase will be a better stage acoustic guitar.

It has to play well, and sound great through a PA. How it looks and sounds acoustically is not important to me.

I don't have big enough socks to do the RHCP thing.


----------



## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

Check out the Parkers Mike. When I bought my blues bird it was a Parker or the Bird. I liked the Guild better.

The parkers however sound great on the piezo or blended. S.S. frets, locking tuners, split coils. Nice neck a bit fatter than you like though.

They might be worth a look (used of course).


----------



## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

http://cgi.ebay.com/1997-Parker-Nit...oryZ2384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hijack over.

Sg= Neck heavy. 

Is that where we were?


----------



## Michelle (Aug 21, 2006)

NB-SK said:


> Yeah, the guitar is light so the friction from the strap on your shoulder is more than enough to ensure that the neck doesn't hit the ground if you let it go.


I have an Epi SG400, which is great BTW, that doesn't seem too bad, not sure if it is exactly like an SG. Compared to an EB-3 & EB-0 it is not an issue. Or even worse, a r-h P-bass used l-h. I like the weight of the SG and that demon that lives in it. :rockon2:


----------



## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Michelle said:


> I have an Epi SG400, which is great BTW, that doesn't seem too bad, not sure if it is exactly like an SG. Compared to an EB-3 & EB-0 it is not an issue. Or even worse, a r-h P-bass used l-h. I like the weight of the SG and that demon that lives in it. :rockon2:


 No excuses now Milkman.........unless you want to use the women give birth and can deal with pain excuse! :smile:

And for the record, I truly do not intend to insult any man or woman by this comment..............I'm just trying to have some fun, so please don't get offended. 

:food-smiley-004:


----------



## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

Since I've been a SG owner for 20 years now... I bought mine new in 1997... I thought I'd chime in.

Firstly my SG Standard is not neck heavy... it is perfectly balanced. It has the top bout strap button behind the neck and not on the top horn. Les Pauls are body heavy. A lot of SG's I've played are the same as mine but I've played a few that were not balanced so well... be choosy get the right one.

See photo...











Secondly there is a major difference when playing upper fret nots on an SG as compared to a Les Paul. On an SG the neck joins the body at the21'st fret. Plus there is simply less wood to wrap your hand around making it much easier to play.

See photo...











SG's are not as thick as Les pauls and tend to hug the players body better. Plus at the end of the night and after 2o years... LOL your back will not be any worse off from playing an SG.

See photo...










I'm not gonna argue that a les paul or an SG has better tone than the other... thats just bullshit... See Angus Young, Duane Allman, Tony Iommi, Derek Trucks, etc... wether you like them or not they all have great SG tones.

If you like how an SG looks, like how it plays, like how it sounds then it's the guitar for you.
Personally I'm very pleased to own an SG I've never owned a Les Paul. I have played many many Les Pauls and I would take the SG over the Les Paul any day... simply put thats why I don't own a Les Paul... thats not to say I won't ever own a Les Paul. I'm just more of a SG Flying V kinda guy is all.

See photos...












Craig


----------



## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

More GMP V photos...


----------



## Lester B. Flat (Feb 21, 2006)

Angus Young has the solution to the neck-heavy SG problem. Play it lying down.


----------



## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

Milkman said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree on that.
> 
> All that does is make it feel like your shirt is being dragged to the ground along with the neck. It's a band aid solution. Solving the root cause and balancing the guitar properly would be much better IMO.


Dude, the guitar weighs about 7 pounds. Even if more than half of the weight was in the neck, you'd have no more than 4 pounds pulling at you, which is pretty insignificant. Could it be that you're being overly picky?

And yeah, KHINGPYNN, mine seems pretty well balanced too. Doesn't feel top heavy, or heavy at all. It's incredibly light...then again, I do 20 reps with 100 pound dumbbells when I do hammer curls...as a warm up...


----------



## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

> Dude, You need some baseboard on those walls. Also, you could paint the cable outlet and electrical wall plate the same as the wall colour to make 'em almost disappear.


Dude you need some glasses for those eyes... the base board is there!!! 
It a 4 inch by 3/8th oak baseboard. Look at the base of the wall and you will notice a very different profile than that of the oak floor. Not being able to see the unfinished bottom edge of the drywall really gives it away.

As far as painting the receptacle and phone jack... nah. 
I posted the photos so members/visitors could see the GUITAR... afteral this is a GUITAR FORUM. Not a Home Decorating forum.

However thanks for the... ?advice?

Oh I get it now... sorry martha i did'nt know it was you.lofu

:smile::smile::smile:


----------



## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

> Anyway....nice floor. I'm a fan of wood floor. 5 minutes with a swiffer once a week and the floors are clean. I'll never go back to carpet.


I hear the there Paul... I'll never go back either... the swiffer is awsome.

It's all good bro... so have you played any GMP guitars?

:food-smiley-004:

Craig


----------



## JSD's Guitar Shack (Feb 24, 2006)

Paul said:


> V's are not the most comfortable sit-down guitar out there.


Thats funny because I find that playing my V sitting down is more comfortable than my LP styled Love Rock. Personally I could never get into the feel of a SG for some reason.


----------



## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Well, personnaly i never was able to get a good feeling playing a SG. i do love their look and style, specialy the higher-end ones, the standard ones are boring with the dots fret inlays. Now, to say a SG is the same quality as a LP standard for exemple, wow..hehe. how do you justifiy the 1500$ in price difference?..

In the end, it's how you FEEL playing your instrument.


----------



## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

al3d said:


> Well, personnaly i never was able to get a good feeling playing a SG. i do love their look and style, specialy the higher-end ones, the standard ones are boring with the dots fret inlays. Now, to say a SG is the same quality as a LP standard for exemple, wow..hehe. how do you justifiy the 1500$ in price difference?..
> 
> In the end, it's how you FEEL playing your instrument.


It has little to do with the quality of the guitar. It's mostly the markup for the extra half inch of mahogany, the flamed maple top, the time it takes to carve and glue the top and the extra couple of hours it takes for the glue to dry (time that the guitar is taking up space in the factory). Given the extra wood and time taken to build the guitar, there will also be more rejects...which the consumers eventually pay for.


----------



## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

It really boils down to what best for the individual.
We all feel compelled to protect our likes and dislikes and we can all learn something from anothers perspective.

OK enough mushy stuff go have a beer and talk about some T&A.. or for the ladies some D&A.

LOL

Craig


----------



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

KHINGPYNN said:


> OK enough mushy stuff go have a beer and talk about some T&A .. or for the ladies some D&A.
> 
> LOL
> 
> Craig


By *T&A*..you are refering to *T*one and *A*mps...correct ?? LOL (D&A ...Distotion & Amps ?) 

Dave


----------



## Arc Angel (Mar 9, 2007)

Robert1950 said:


> Nothing a nice thick leather strap can't remedy.


Very true. I've simply never had a problem with mine. A bit mystified by the neck heavy negativity since that's not been my experience.


----------



## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

Arc Angel said:


> Very true. I've simply never had a problem with mine. A bit mystified by the neck heavy negativity since that's not been my experience.


Yeah, same here. I just don't get it since the guitar is so darned lightweight.


----------



## Lemmy Hangslong (May 11, 2006)

T&A = Tone and Amps... yeah thats it! LOL

I use a 1 & 1/2 inch strap with my SG. It's smooth leather on the back. Never had the neck heavy problem.
I'm feeling much the same way on the negativity but it is what it is.


----------



## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

NB-SK said:


> Yeah, same here. I just don't get it since the guitar is so darned lightweight.


Doesn't matter how light the guitar can be; it's really question of balance/weight distribution. I've played some SG types (Epiphone Custom 400s come to mind - the cream coloured ones with gold appointments) that feature a relatively large headstock which makes the neck want to dip southward. Other SGs I've not had a problem with in that respect. For that matter, my Guild S-100 is very nicely balanced and it's never been a problem for me.


----------



## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

Maxer said:


> Doesn't matter how light the guitar can be; it's really question of balance/weight distribution. I've played some SG types (Epiphone Custom 400s come to mind - the cream coloured ones with gold appointments) that feature a relatively large headstock which makes the neck want to dip southward. Other SGs I've not had a problem with in that respect. For that matter, my Guild S-100 is very nicely balanced and it's never been a problem for me.


Sure...if the guitar is hanging bellow your knees on its strap.


----------



## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

LOL

Like I was hinting at, not all SGs are created equal.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

al3d said:


> Well, personnaly i never was able to get a good feeling playing a SG. i do love their look and style, specialy the higher-end ones, the standard ones are boring with the dots fret inlays. Now, to say a SG is the same quality as a LP standard for exemple, wow..hehe. how do you justifiy the 1500$ in price difference?..
> 
> In the end, it's how you FEEL playing your instrument.


actually, the standard is the one with the trapezoid inlays etc. its the SG special that has teh dots. and an SG standard only comes out to $1700 ish, whereas the LP standard comes out to oh.. $2300?


----------



## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

Budda said:


> actually, the standard is the one with the trapezoid inlays etc. its the SG special that has teh dots. and an SG standard only comes out to $1700 ish, whereas the LP standard comes out to oh.. $2300?


wow...guess i'll grabs the one at my local shop..cause the standard goes for 1049$ and the ones with inlays like a LP goes for 1295$.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

"inlays like an LP" IS the standard!!! the $1300 one.

the SG Special is the one with the dots that is $1050. where is an SG standard for under $1300?!


----------



## kirk1701 (Sep 14, 2007)

Paul said:


> If it's noticable, it may be an issue. For me, it is an issue. I don't like how they hang on a strap. YMMV.
> 
> Ok. I see the point. They do tend to be headstock heavy. I held the same opinion till I got a cheaper one and worked with it. I've been a strat man since I started playing and nothing feels the same. But then, you don't play an SG the same way you play a strat or anything else for that matter. You hold an SG differently. You gotta plant your picking palm against the bridge. You can loosen your grip too, thanks to the shorter scale, and really let your fingers fly. There's a learning curve with everything.


----------



## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Budda said:


> "inlays like an LP" IS the standard!!! the $1300 one.
> 
> the SG Special is the one with the dots that is $1050. where is an SG standard for under $1300?!


They are now $1399 in latest L&M Fall and Winter 2007 Catalogue. They were $1525.


----------



## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

I don't want any more learning curve than I have to have.

The SG is just not for me. Enjoy yours though:smile:


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Robert1950 said:


> They are now $1399 in latest L&M Fall and Winter 2007 Catalogue. They were $1525.



thats what i like to see, prices going DOWN! :banana:


----------



## gearupmusic (Oct 12, 2007)

It definitly weights less than a Les Paul.

I personally don't think it is any better for players with smaller hand. There are basically 2 kinds of neck for Les Paul, one is round neck and the other is the slim 60's neck. I like the later one better The SG standard has a rounder neck.....so if you are looking for a slimmer neck to play on then look for a model with the slim 60's neck.

Since the body for SG is lighter, the body weight tilts towards the neck and I find that the guitar neck tends to tilt down when playing on it and this kinda annoyed me. (gets even more annoying when playing sitting down)....


----------



## Guiary (Oct 10, 2007)

Maxer said:


> For that matter, my Guild S-100 is very nicely balanced and it's never been a problem for me.


I was just going to ask about the Guild S-100, whats the going price for one of those... that is if you can find one.


----------



## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

They pop up on Ebay from time to time, I think. Prices range a fair bit... the Guilds don't have the same blue book value as their Gibson cousins so they're pretty affordable... I tend to think of them as undervalued sleeper guitars. I saw a nice light blue one on Ebay some weeks back that was also from the early 70s and it looked to be in excellent shape. There's sure not many around. I don't know when they stopped production of the S-100, but I'm guessing it was in the mid to late 70s.

They are out there, though... happy hunting.


----------



## Guest (Oct 16, 2007)

Budda said:


> actually, the standard is the one with the trapezoid inlays etc. its the SG special that has the dots...


What's the model with block inlays? Anyone?
Mine's an '85.


----------



## elindso (Aug 29, 2006)

It's pretty close to the same as Les Pauls.

Standards are traps, Customs are square for the most part.

Elites from 88 had squares.


----------



## Budda (May 29, 2007)

SG Custom would have blocks. SG supreme has the split blocks


----------

