# Crazy tube amp buyers



## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Are people off there rockers paying these prices for used Fender deluxe reverb reissue amps and blue's jr. I mean come on they have been on the market for 15 years or so and last time I looked in one there was circuit boards. Every thing has a shelf life and a lot of them are getting close to the end. End of rant.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

deadear said:


> Every thing has a shelf life and a lot of them are getting close to the end.


Could you please explain exactly what you mean by this? I think I'm missing the point here.

Thanks

Cheers

Dave


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

greco said:


> Could you please explain exactly what you mean by this? I think I'm missing the point here.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ...


Well like solid state amps you pretty well throw them away when they are shot. Solid state amps have circuit boards also. These new tube amps are not like the originals when it comes time to repair them. They are not point to point wiring.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks for explaining.

I expected that the circuit board was the basis for what you were concerned about. However, not meaning to be argumentative...just making a comment, there are a lot of older solid state (SS) amps from the '80's, etc. still kicking around and doing fine (I have owned a few). 
Do you think the SS amps and their circuit boards were of higher quality back then?

Cheers

Dave


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

if they are still running strong after 15 years that's nothing to complain about IMO

what do they sell for, compared to the original deluxe reverbs?


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## Stonehead (Nov 12, 2013)

deadear said:


> They are not point to point wiring.


Whats your point? :stirpot:


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

deadear said:


> These new tube amps are not like the originals.


Look at some of the comparisons done on them. You will see the rearranged quote above fits. This includes the sound obtained from the new copies. But Fender, Marshall and others are selling at least some of them like hot cakes.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

What makes an amp disposable is not whether it has a circuit board or not. There are plenty of models from the 60's and 70's with circuit boards that would surprise you. Both SS and tube. Most of them are still repairable. A lot of newer stuff with circuit boards (both SS and tube) are very repairable.
Generally what makes an amp disposable is when it doesn't cost much more to replace it rather than fix it. And that has nothing to do with whether is has circuit boards or not.


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

To the OP, first, how much are people paying for used DRRIs and BJs that you are ranting about? Second, you're saying that anything that's not hardwired is no good. Really??? 

Sent from my mobile computer.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Silly post is silly...


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## deadear (Nov 24, 2011)

Chito said:


> To the OP, first, how much are people paying for used DRRIs and BJs that you are ranting about? Second, you're saying that anything that's not hardwired is no good. Really???
> 
> Sent from my mobile computer.


 DRRIs new for the longest time were $1100 new now asking price is usually $800 used. ( could be a 15 year old amp)
Blues JR's were $525 for the longest time new and $400 seems to be the asking price used. (could be a 15 year old amp.) I just don't get it?

I could have bought a Marshall TSL 601 combo last week for $450 .

- - - Updated - - -



gtrguy said:


> Silly post is silly...


You must have a DRRI sitting in the corner beside a Blues JR all sacked out waiting for a sucker Silly. Start a thread.


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

I guess the price is being pushed up by the crazy prices for real vintage Fenders, which has pushed up the price of the "less desirable" vintage Fenders such as silverface etc.
But yes, DRRI is still $1100 new, $800 seems steep used. However asking price and selling price are two different things.
Marshall TSL601 is by no means comparable. Lots of less common Marshalls can be had quite cheap.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Also a TSL combo is far less desirable compared to a DRRI.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

deadear said:


> You must have a DRRI sitting in the corner beside a Blues JR all sacked out waiting for a sucker Silly. Start a thread.



Actually I have an original blackface Deluxe Reverb (sitting next to my original blackface Super Reverb)... and I've tried it head to head against a reissue. The reissue, biased properly and plugged into the speaker of the original sounds surprisingly close. Put in some decent tubes and I'll bet most people couldn't tell the difference blindfolded.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

I agree. The DRRI is pretty close - probably closer to some of the original PTP's than they were from each other.

The PTP argument reminds me of the high-end interconnect/speaker cable 'discussion' in the hi-fi world. No double blind testing, no documentable proof, just 'believers' who've paid the ridiculous price for something no one but them can hear. 

The only thing someone can say for sure about PTP is that it is not as consistent as PCB. If the first PCB amp sounds good, they all will (components remaining the same). The is not true of PTP - each one can potentially sound different. Maybe PTP is easier to mod or repair, but PTP amps are generally much less complicated. PCB amps are constantly increasing in their level of complexity due to the amazing flexibility and features they allow. 

My old Roadster would have been a nightmare to work on compared to an original Deluxe Reverb. But a PTP amp that could do what the Roadster does would require an 8' rack, 8 miles of wire and weigh about 800 lbs. Not to say the Roadie isn't heavy enough already.

If you really believe PTP has any sonic advantages, I've got a pair of $10,000 speaker cables your gonna LOVE! PM me with your escrow account.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

gtrguy said:


> Actually I have an original blackface Deluxe Reverb (sitting next to my original blackface Super Reverb)... and I've tried it head to head against a reissue. The reissue, biased properly and plugged into the speaker of the original sounds surprisingly close. Put in some decent tubes and I'll bet most people couldn't tell the difference blindfolded.


You may be right. However there was a test done by one of music mags awhile ago and although the test showed they were close those that knew the original amp could tell the difference. I doubt whether I could, though, and as you posted, most people couldn't. Since that is the case, why not just get an FX unit. Many of them come pretty close too.


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## WCGill (Mar 27, 2009)

Yes the reissues are pretty close, but that's all. I will agree that the printed board amps will be more consistent from one to the other. PTP wiring is a misnomer because it really hasn't been used much since the '40's. All the desirable vintage amps used components on tag boards. Alessandro uses PTP wiring. Ever heard one? The comparison to Hi Fi cable discussions is not valid at all as we're talking a whole different method of construction and a world of difference in the parts used from modern to vintage. The whole goal of a guitar amp is distortion, tone, magic if you will. The board amps don't deliver that as well because they have become more "Hi Fi" to my way of thinking, layouts and components designed and selected for economies of scale. They're like the carrots bred for a uniform shape that lends itself to easy harvesting and processing, but where's the taste?


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> You may be right. However there was a test done by one of music mags awhile ago and although the test showed they were close those that knew the original amp could tell the difference. I doubt whether I could, though, and as you posted, most people couldn't. Since that is the case, why not just get an FX unit. Many of them come pretty close too.


Interesting.. did they also plug the reissue into the vintage amp's speaker? That really made them sound close when I did the comparison. An FX unit to replace an amp? I don't understand your logic... like replacing a toaster with a microwave?


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

gtrguy said:


> Interesting.. did they also plug the reissue into the vintage amp's speaker? That really made them sound close when I did the comparison. An FX unit to replace an amp? I don't understand your logic... like replacing a toaster with a microwave?


Do a blind fold comparison and let us know the true results. If you want to argue go find someone else.


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## Stonehead (Nov 12, 2013)

You read these types of threads all over the net and they're always the same. Some swear that they can hear the difference between a PCB and an insulated wire, all i can say to that is they have my pedestrian ear beat. I think it would be an interesting experiment to take a couple of old PTP amps and use their components and convert it to a PCB board then let the "experts" try to hear the difference. My money would be betting against them. There are too many variables from the fingers down to the speakers that dictate the final output. The allure and mystique of having one of these older amps interesting but to me it comes down to marketing that's why we have all the reissues.There are some great old amps out there but not all old amps are great.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Steadfastly said:


> Do a blind fold comparison and let us know the true results. If you want to argue go find someone else.


You said "why not just get an effects unit?" I just don't get that suggestion- you're still going to need an amp no? When talking about comparing original and reissue Fender amps that suggestion just seems out of left field. Whatever, I have no interest in arguing with someone on the Internet. This is my last post on the subject. Enjoy the discussion.


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## vadsy (Dec 2, 2010)

I like the DRRI, on the left, bought used for $550 and it's in great shape. Kept stock, same ol' Fender Groove Tubes and same ol' Jensen ceramic speaker even though several speakers have graced the inside of the cab for trial purposes.

On the right we have an original 1966 Deluxe Reverb, not mine but I had it for a couple few weeks to play around with. Its had the usual maintenance for an amp its age with JJ tubes and a Weber speaker but nothing crazy or modified.

Day after day I would plug both of these amps in and let them warm up, make sure all the knobs were the same and plug my guitar in. Day after day I noticed the original sounded bigger and thicker, overall the amp was richer and louder at the same setting on the dial as the RI. The overdrive was a lot smoother and sweeter as well but the biggest thing that made me want one of my own was the reverb, it was fantastic! To this point of my musical journey I have not had the pleasure of playing a better spring reverb amplifier. I'm sure the argument can be made for better control of the experiment, and I agree, but it was enough for me as I was only noodling. To me these each have a place, I would gig with the RI but keep the original at home and studio as taking it out makes me cringe thinking what could happen to it. The difference in tone is minor when you're sailing through a full band mix PA anyways. I'm sure if the components of the original were put on a PCB it wouldn't make much of a difference over P2P cloth wire but I truly don't see the need to go that far. To me the biggest thing is those parts and transformers are just not made the same, or at all, and something has changed physically and tonally. The cost of something old, cool and preserved is almost always going to be more than its reissue and the cost of the replacement is going to stay high if it's a popular platform, which it seems to be, but deals can still be had. In the end it seems like supply and demand, people want both of these amps new or used.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks Vadsy...very interesting post.

Cheers

Dave


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