# Cites



## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I have a Guitar coming over from the US. Right now its in customs. It has a Brazilian rosewood overlay on the head plate. Does anyone think this is a potential problem? I know Martin ships guitars with Brazilian on the head plates all the time but technically could this be an issue?


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Yes, it could be... there's probably a good chance that it will simply slide through without incident but if it says anywhere in the paperwork that there is Brazilian, or the customs guy happens to be a keener, it could be problematic.

However, like you say Martin ship these guitars regularly (and I assume internationally) so there must be a process in place to get the required paperwork. What does MFG say about it?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I never asked Jon yet cause until now I didn't think about it.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I emailed Jon at MFG and below is the exchange:

*ME: *Hi Jon. The guitar is in customs now. Something I never thought about till now. Will that Brazilian rosewood overlay on the head plate be a potential problem?

*Jon: *No

Would have been a little more comforting to hear an explanation as to why I wouldn't have to worry but I guess I'll just have to take his word for it and not worry.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

Cool.. that's good news!


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

It's Martin, you have to believe they have all their ducks in a row when it comes to CITES. I wouldn't spend any time worrying about it.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

keto said:


> It's Martin, you have to believe they have all their ducks in a row when it comes to CITES. I wouldn't spend any time worrying about it.


Yeah I guess what unnerved me was looking at tracking information this morning and seeing a big yellow caution and exception:

Exception": Your shipment is currently within the UPS network, however an unforeseen event has occurred which could result in a change to your scheduled delivery date. View shipment progress for specific details.
All the shipment progress states is: The receiver must pay the duties or taxes due on the package.

Before that everything was fine.


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## gtrguy (Jul 6, 2006)

That's pretty normal. UPS won't hand it over until the duty and taxes are paid... just give them a call and pay and it should be back on the way.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Just called the UPS depot in my area. I guess they can see the tracking info a bit more up to date than what I see from the website. The person I talked to says its in Fort Erie and has cleared customs. Says it should be at their depot by the morning. The delivery date was Wednesday but the person on the phone said I could get it by tomorrow.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

The guitar is on the truck for local delivery today. I've been waiting all day with the door open and hovering around it to make sure I don't miss the driver. At 3 pm I have to go down the street to pickup my grand daughter from her last day of school. No one else is home. I'll be gone about 10 minutes. What are the odds that is when the brown truck comes?


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## Guyfrets (Aug 20, 2012)

guitarman2 said:


> At 3 pm I have to go down the street to pickup my grand daughter from her last day of school. No one else is home. I'll be gone about 10 minutes. What are the odds that is when the brown truck comes?


If your luck is anything like mine the odds are really high that the delivery will occur during the ten minutes your gone. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. BTW - Congrats on your new Martin. Will you be posting some photos?


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Yes I will be posting pictures.
It looks like I didn't miss it. I timed my self to leave the house at 3:03 as my grand daughter gets out at 3:05 I drove even though its a 4 minute walk. Coming back my grand daughter has a way of making 4 minute walks 15 minutes. I was only able to get so close to the school for parking as everyone parks along the street. I made a dash for her classroom and of course she's got to be the last one out. 
Made it back and I see no "Sorry we missed you" slip so I should be ok. Should get it anytime between now and 7 pm.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

Well it finally came. I'll get some pics up in an NGD thread a little later. The fees at the door $168.59 making this guitar cost a total of $3,984. Going by the 12th fret price on this guitar of 4,659 + taxes for a total of $5,264 it makes a difference of $1,280. I never would have believed it would be that much cheaper. Thats a lot of money difference to pay. Of course I gambled on a sight unseen or unplayed guitar but so far its sounding and feeling good.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Congrats!...on the NGD and the overall savings. 

Looking forward to the pics.


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## Steadfastly (Nov 14, 2008)

Congrats on the guitar and the foresight. Enjoy!


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## Guyfrets (Aug 20, 2012)

guitarman2 said:


> Yes I will be posting pictures.
> It looks like I didn't miss it. I timed my self to leave the house at 3:03 as my grand daughter gets out at 3:05 I drove even though its a 4 minute walk. Coming back my grand daughter has a way of making 4 minute walks 15 minutes. I was only able to get so close to the school for parking as everyone parks along the street. I made a dash for her classroom and of course she's got to be the last one out.
> Made it back and I see no "Sorry we missed you" slip so I should be ok. Should get it anytime between now and 7 pm.


Great news that you've received your new Martin and saved a pile of dough into the bargain (weak pun, I know). I also have a grand daughter with the uncanny knack of turning short walks into major forays. But hey, that's part of the fun of grandpahood, unless you're expecting delivery of a new guitar.


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## Steve6D (May 9, 2016)

There was an issue some years back where Canadian Customs in Alberta was holding up guitars that had any sort of MOP or abalone on them. Never could figure out why they did that.

When I was at Taylor I never shipped anything Brazilian into Canada. I could have sold a lot of them up there, but was always told we didn't have the proper paperwork, but they were "working on it". My understanding is they have it figured out now but, for years, you couldn't get a new Brazilian Taylor in Canada...


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

Steve6D said:


> There was an issue some years back where Canadian Customs in Alberta was holding up guitars that had any sort of MOP or abalone on them. Never could figure out why they did that.
> 
> When I was at Taylor I never shipped anything Brazilian into Canada. I could have sold a lot of them up there, but was always told we didn't have the proper paperwork, but they were "working on it". My understanding is they have it figured out now but, for years, you couldn't get a new Brazilian Taylor in Canada...


Abalone comes from a molusq, and there are international restrictions for importation if anything related to seafood. 

I don't quite understand why that has any impact on seashell processed byproducts used in guitar making, and I think it might comes from the border agent's interpretation, but trying to import pearloid material from the US is super complicated as most sites has this "we don't ship out of the US" verbiage everywhere on their sites...


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## Steve6D (May 9, 2016)

Jamdog said:


> Abalone comes from a molusq, and there are international restrictions for importation if anything related to seafood.
> 
> I don't quite understand why that has any impact on seashell processed byproducts used in guitar making, and I think it might comes from the border agent's interpretation, but trying to import pearloid material from the US is super complicated as most sites has this "we don't ship out of the US" verbiage everywhere on their sites...


The unusual aspect was that it was only happening in Alberta. I remember trying to ship a 914ce to Calgary and it got held up for almost a month. In that same period of time I'd probably shipped close to a dozen 914ce's to dealers in other provinces...


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## Jamdog (Mar 9, 2016)

Steve6D said:


> The unusual aspect was that it was only happening in Alberta. I remember trying to ship a 914ce to Calgary and it got held up for almost a month. In that same period of time I'd probably shipped close to a dozen 914ce's to dealers in other provinces...


Yeah I think it depends on the customs agent's interpretation of various laws. Or maybe there's an Alberta regulation about it, I wouldn't be able to say. 

But yeah, I hear you. Must be very annoying.


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## Steve6D (May 9, 2016)

Jamdog said:


> Yeah I think it depends on the customs agent's interpretation of various laws. Or maybe there's an Alberta regulation about it, I wouldn't be able to say.
> 
> But yeah, I hear you. Must be very annoying.


I think it was something particular with that one office as opposed to being an issue with a particular agent.

It was an issue for about three years. It was first brought to my attention by the then buyer for Long & McQuade. He and I both did some pretty exhaustive research on why it could be happening and, while I don't recall the particulars, I do recall that there was nothing that would've caused us to say "Oh_ that's_ why!"

I don't know if it still happens but, yeah, it was pretty damn annoying...


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## Ship of fools (Nov 17, 2007)

I believe most guitar makers have exemptions for their Rosewood stocks so they usually don't have problems. ship


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