# what do you do...



## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

What do you do when the owner of the bar you usually play at (and used to have a good repoir with) starts giving you a hard time with your song selection, having other people come up and sing, etc? The thing is, the patrons are still coming up and saying they enjoyed the band, and people are dancing and singing along... etc.

He also said, that if any band he hires to play at his bar, takes a gig/plays at another bar, they will be "banned" from playing at his place.

I think this is unfair, and something has happened to make this guy somewhat miserable. Personally, I have been playing at this location in a few different bands for near 5 years approx. once a month. I think its time to look for other places to play... and I will suggest this to the other two members of the band. We have a weekend a month booked at this place usually quite a few months in advance, but its getting to the point the guy stands there watching us play and then says something negative to our drummer (who in turn tells us) and it puts a damper on playing, and having fun.

I guess I am just venting... but I know what we need to do. Keep playing our best, having fun and playing songs we think people want to hear - and maybe doing so at a different venue. Ahh life in a small town.. 

AJC


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## bolero (Oct 11, 2006)

man that is seriously messed up...I would call him out: talk to him politely about it but be firm, try to communicate

if he's being an idiot tell him that's not going to work for you, "see ya later" & tell him if he changes his mind you're still interested in playing there...no need to burn any bridges?

unless he's "really" being an idiot....then I'd just tell him to screw himself


life is too short to put up with bullshit


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2010)

Sounds like a guy with a failing business trying to blame anyone but himself for his problems. Loosing your shirt does all kinds of weird to people's heads. I'd start booking elsewhere.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

_"He also said, that if any band he hires to play at his bar, takes a gig/plays at another bar, they will be "banned" from playing at his place."_

Then he'll be stuck with no bands of quality, and he'll likely then blame the bands for his business demise. What a bozo. He doesn't own the band. Whatever his real grievance with your band, he needs to be tuned in.

Good luck, you may need it.

Peace, Mooh.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

The idea that he wants any band to play his place exclusively is kind of stupid no? If people hear you play at another venue and like it, then that would get recognition and a possible following that would lead people straight to his place, if he does any advance advertising at all. So he should be happy if you are playing other venues and hopefully drawing in people that have never been to his place before.


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

I guess if he wants exclusive rights to the band, and start picking guest appearances, he will just have to cough up more money for that option.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

If he wants people to come up and play tell him to start a separate talent night or you will raise your price. Sounds like you better start booking other gigs.


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

shoretyus said:


> If he wants people to come up and play tell him to start a separate talent night or you will raise your price. Sounds like you better start booking other gigs.


Sorry, I better clarify... WE (the band) like to let good local singers come up and play with us... no extra cost to him. And , like this weekend (we had a female some up and sing about 8 songs) it went over well.

The more I think about it, the more it pisses me off. There is another guy (who plays both solo acoustic stuff, and also has a 3 pc R&R outfit) that plays there two weekends a month, and he is somehow allowed to play elesewhere... but we are not? Lame.

We are talking about playing the next gig (two weekends away) and then cancelling the next few just to see what happens. 

For a weekend that was full of other thigns happening around here, we pulled in quite a few people. I dont know what his problem is...

AJC


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> The idea that he wants any band to play his place exclusively is kind of stupid no? If people hear you play at another venue and like it, then that would get recognition and a possible following that would lead people straight to his place, if he does any advance advertising at all. So he should be happy if you are playing other venues and hopefully drawing in people that have never been to his place before.


Yes it is. I play in two bands (me and the drummer play with another guitar and bassist)...and we have been asked to play repeatedly at this other place that just opened up last year. So far I havent really wanted to since I had the idea that if the owner of the bar in question found out, our other band would be unable to play at his place. Now I think, screw it... 

AJC


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2010)

There's only one venue I've ever respected when it came to the don't-play-other-bars request: The Horseshoe. And only because it's always worked out in my favour to keep a dry spell before and after a 'Shoe show. The place is easier to pack. They ask you don't play any other place in the GTA +/- 2-4 weeks when appearing at the Shoe. And it makes sense. When you're doing all-original music there's only so much you can play one town before it gets to be old.

For a covers thing: screw 'em. Like i said: sounds like a guy who's about to get a hard lesson in how to tank your business fast.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

ajcoholic said:


> He also said, that if any band he hires to play at his bar, takes a gig/plays at another bar, they will be "banned" from playing at his place.


If that were the only issue I would say gig under two different band names, one for when you play his place and one for everywhere else.



ajcoholic said:


> its getting to the point the guy stands there watching us play and then says something negative to our drummer (who in turn tells us) and it puts a damper on playing, and having fun.


That would make me stop playing there unless I needed the money. If it's not fun then it's not worth doing.


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## ronmac (Sep 22, 2006)

It's time to have a frank and respectful conversation with this guy. The reason he is becoming more difficult may have nothing to do with you. 

If the gig is worth keeping, let him know you want the job but feel the conditions are becoming a bit tight. If he is reasonable you should be able to work this out. If not, find another gig.


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

ronmac said:


> It's time to have a frank and respectful conversation with this guy. The reason he is becoming more difficult may have nothing to do with you.
> 
> If the gig is worth keeping, let him know you want the job but feel the conditions are becoming a bit tight. If he is reasonable you should be able to work this out. If not, find another gig.


We play for fun, sure, the money is a nice thing (we get $800 for two nights, 3 sets 1 hour each) but I dont play becuase I need to. 

I think we need to take a bit of a break and see if his mood changes. He used to be very upbeat, and even when we were very green, and didnt playnearly as good as we do now, he never said anything negative. SOmethings changed...

AJC


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

I've known some bars to require exclusivity. That's largely due to bands whoring themselves at four or five bars within close proximity to each other. After awhile they stop drawing. The bar wants you to bring in your following. If you played a block away last week, chances of that are going to be less than if you only play one bar in each town. Personally I've always made a point of only keeping one room in each town. 

Of course in a big city like Toronto or Montreal, that's not really applicable.

As for bar owners trying to tell me what songs to play, no way, no how. They can look at the list and make requests, but no, I'm not a juke box. I play what I love, period.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

ajcoholic said:


> Sorry, I better clarify... WE (the band) like to let good local singers come up and play with us... no extra cost to him. And , like this weekend (we had a female some up and sing about 8 songs) it went over well.
> 
> The more I think about it, the more it pisses me off. There is another guy (who plays both solo acoustic stuff, and also has a 3 pc R&R outfit) that plays there two weekends a month, and he is somehow allowed to play elesewhere... but we are not? Lame.
> 
> ...


The owner has a right to protest that you are getting a guest singer to get up. He paid for your band not a jam with a guest singer. 8 songs is pretty much a whole set. And although, maybe not in your case, it can lead to others in the audience bugging to get up for a guest spot since they see you getting some one else up. This is usually a bad idea and somethng I always like to avoid.
As far as the owner demanding exclusivity this has been going on with some club owners as far back as I can remember. I've been playing since 1982. Sometimes its a pain in the ass. Especially some of the clubs in the past that has demanded this from bands that I've been in that book us about once every 2 or 3 months. You're getting a gig a month so I don't know if its worth causing waves over. Of course if you're getting a lot of grief about other stuff then you may want to evaluate whether its worth playing there. But if its just a complaint of exclusivity then you have to look at whether the other club in town is going to pay more or you get enough gigs to compensate the loss of a the other club.


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## monty (Feb 9, 2009)

ajcoholic said:


> We are talking about playing the next gig (two weekends away) and then cancelling the next few just to see what happens.
> 
> 
> 
> AJC


I wouldnt do that. You dont want your band to get a flakey rep.


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

We had a rehersal tonight and talked about the situation. We are going to play our next gig in two weekends and see how he acts. If he has any more "complaints" - then I think I will take a few month break.

Playing gigs is supposed to be fun. We try our best, and the crowd was having a great time. Even another band that finished up at the other bar I was talking about, came in for last call and said we sounded great. What more can we do? If he continues to give us $hit more or less, then certainly we can cancel gigs we have booked in the future, and he can hire someone else. Not flakey... we will give him enough time to get someone else. But I am hoping it wont come to that.

Oh well.. like I said, sometimes you just need to vent and get it out.

AJC


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

guitarman..the owner is the one supplying the guest singers...


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## Guest (Feb 24, 2010)

shoretyus said:


> guitarman..the owner is the one supplying the guest singers...


 Nope. It's Andrew's band that invites the singers. From a few posts above:



> Sorry, I better clarify... WE (the band) like to let good local singers come up and play with us... no extra cost to him. And , like this weekend (we had a female some up and sing about 8 songs) it went over well.


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

In all fairness, a lot of the bands that play let people (who can either play or sing) come up and do so... without issues in the past. We even let a few younger bands play half a dozen songs or more, more than one time.  It was never any problem, and if anything, they get a lot of their friends to come out and watch that probably wouldnt be there otherwise.

Some of you guys have to remember I am from a small town, there is only 3 or so places to play, and everyone knows everyone. Its usually very "casual" in the way things operate which is why we dont know what is happening lately.

ANyhow, I feel better just ranting for a bit - and now its time to gte working on the new songs, and just have fun and play like we always did in the past.

AJC


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

I apologize ...... um I don't see a problem with that and have done it.


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## ajcoholic (Feb 5, 2006)

Well, last night's gig was much better. We still had a few guys come up and sing a tune or two, and between sets 2 and 3 a local younger band came up and played 1/2 dozen songs during our break.

The night was fun, the owner seemed much more relaxed and upbeat. The bar wasnt packed but it was pretty rockin' most of the night.

Will get some feedback tonight when we go back, but I think things are once again cool.

As an aside, a band who plays regularly at the "other" bar... is playing next weekend at this one. So I guess the rule of being banned from playing isnt flying. I heard that there just isnt enough bands around here that want to play enough weekends... 

One weekend a month is enough for me!

AJC


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## Fajah (Jun 28, 2006)

ajcoholic said:


> I heard that there just isnt enough bands around here that want to play enough weekends...
> 
> One weekend a month is enough for me!
> 
> AJC


I'm finding the opposite here in the GTA. Lot's of bands are in rotation at bars in a given area and it's tough to get in. We had a great monthly gig at the same bar for just about 2 years which ended last November. We still don't have anything booked although we seem to be getting close.


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