# Bass Tones and Techniques 101



## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Hi. I'm new to Bass and I want tones and some techniques. The last couple of days since I've started looking into Bass just a little further is the first time I've listened to Bass players with the same ear as for guitar. That's the only way I can explain it. So I thought maybe a thread on Bass guitar tone, electric or acoustic, would be something that might be helpful. All depending on the contribution level. 

A few things I'd like to see mentioned are fingers vs. picks, placement of right hand (for righties, left for lefties) with regard to pickups. Soft and hard picking techniques you've come up with. Amplifier setting. Big Bottom guitar settings and tones you've come up with or have a good example of from a known or less known player. All that kind of stuff. I didn't want to keep it specific because I'm finding the skill transfer quite easy between guitar and Bass. 

Right now I'm using finger style which is nothing for me because I started that over 30 years ago with Classical. I'm starting to find the sweet spot around the 1 pickup the guitar has.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

@laristotle @keto you guys are up.

Might I recommend a teacher.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Budda said:


> @laristotle @keto you guys are up.
> 
> Might I recommend a teacher.


That's a good recommendation but there's really no need for me. I've got the rest and free strokes, alternate picking with fingers/pick, all notes and theory already covered. I'd like to hear or see what the Bass players on the site are doing to get specific Bass tones and such though. I thought it would be nice to hear from the Bassist here their experiences with achieving certain sounds. Doesn't have to be theory or technical in any way. Just some cool things Bassist do to get sounds. Almost like tips and tricks from experienced players.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Well I mean you can always learn *something* but I hear what you're saying .

I expect good results from this thread. 

My only contribution is getting the right bass for the job. My (first) modded VM jazz suited poppier material far better than the Ibanez SR it replaced. Both were good basses.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

I mean, I have my own style and sound but it’s nothing unique or special. I pick only, right at the end of the fretboard. I can go from barely touching the strings to bouncing them hard with big excursions, I don’t suffer from lack of dynamic range.

I use 2 pickup basses, but mostly use the neck or in between, I’ve never found a use for or inspiration from a bridge pup EXCEPT on a bass that of course I traded away  Bridge pup too thin for my taste, very rarely might go there with some distortion on if I need to cut more.

I boost low mids pretty heavily, my ears tell me that’s how to get heard in a mix. I run always on a compressor - a very common thing on bass - and a high pass + low pass filter, primarily to get rid of any ‘boom in the room’, great tool to have. 2-3 dirt pedals, from low gain tube OD up to freakin roaring clank.

Strings make WAY WAY more difference on bass than guitar. Rounds, goundwound,flats, tapes. Steel, nickel, plated or solid, other materials. I spent a lot of dough trying this that and the other, 2-3 years to settle on my preferred DR Lo-Rider Nickel (LR Steel is what L&M carry, and I’ve used them lots but they are more scooped sounding, the nickels are still nicely full range but have some special sauce in the low mids....I may have mentioned, but that’s where I live.)

Welcome over here any time, I have a rig in the garage can be played as loud as desired, 3-4 GK & Mesa heads, and a couple cabs.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Great rundown and I'll take you up on that offer when I'm ready. I'm surprised at how much of a difference the strings make. I have no real reference because I 've changed the strings and set it up just after purchase a while ago now. Good to know. I'm using round wound and they sound good in the heavier Rock context. I'll look into string more soon as I probably need to reset the truss once it gets back to normal here.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

I run the neck pickup at 10 and dial in the bridge to taste. Tone is at 10. I use a Tech 21 Bass Driver DI with tone controls at 12 o'clock, Drive at 10 o'clock and Presence at 1 o'clock.

On the rare occasion that I use my amp instead of the BDDI, I'll dial back the tone on the bass and all of the tone controls on the amp will be at 12 o'clock.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

How are you setting up the Tech21 DI? Straight to mixer/PA or as a Preamp for power Amp? I'm considering something similar in the future as the Peavey I'm using right now has an FX loop so the Power Amp option might be available through the Return.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Dorian2 said:


> How are you setting up the Tech21 DI? Straight to mixer/PA or as a Preamp for power Amp? I'm considering something similar in the future as the Peavey I'm using right now has an FX loop so the Power Amp option might be available through the Return.


Straight to mixer/PA. I would be comfortable with going direct to power amp, but I don't have a stand-alone power amp for bass. I've reached an age where I carry as little as possible when I leave the house.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

My hearing's not what it used to be, so I tend to rely on my bandmates and friends at a gig to help me dial in my sound.
I haven't touched my amp settings, except for volume, for ~ three years now.
Bass volume's up full and tone is ~6/7.
Two pup basses are set similar to what Keto states. Bridge slightly lower than neck.

I have flats on my basses and I still wind up with blisters on my finger tips after a gig. lol
I have to work on my right hand technique. I catch myself digging in harder every now n' then.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I hooked up the Peavey with the Zoom B2 tonight. Shaped the tone as much as permitted on the Amp and went through a bunch of settings on the pedal. Went through all the Drive/preamp sims and a couple sounded really good to me. Ampeg, SuperBass, Bassman, Tube pre and the Sans Amp were the ones that I noted. There are also Hartke, Trace Elliot, Acoustic, Fretless bass sims that at least give my ears a place to start. Compared to some Line6 guitar stuff I had, this shit kills it so far. But I have virgin Bass ears still. It's becoming clearer though. Fun night tonight with the Bass. Right in front of the Soap Bar is where I tend to gravitate. It's closer to the middle than the Bridge so it's easy to change Tone pretty quick. I kinda like the single pickup actually.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

Amp loud, play soft. 
Practice soloing on the bass 
Think Bach when composing your bass lines
Keep your action low
If your had gets tired, rest. It’s more work than guitar but less stressful on your skin (L hand). 
Active Eq DI makes you sound pro sooner. 


More later.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Honestly, if you want to learn about bass then start playing with others.

There’s a lot of tones and techniques that quite frankly sound like shit and are boring as fuck if all you do is noodle away in your basement by yourself.

When it comes to dialing in my own sound I start by listening to the rest of the band. I aim to be able to hear the guitars and vocals clearly. If I can’t, then I start cutting midrange until I can, then I put enough top end in so that I can hear my notes articulate, then I add low end until the band sounds fat.

I usually set the top end so that my bass is a little bit too abrasive with the tone on 10, then back the tone off until around 7 or 8, at which point it starts to sink down into the mix. This gives me enough room to open things up if I feel a song needs the bass to cut a little more.

I don’t generally use effects pedals live. Between my fingers, the pick and the tone control I have everything I need. Not using effects also simplifies the DI feed and keeps things more consistent throughout the set.

If you do want to experience the with effects I recommend a Big Muff, Tubescreamer, and a Rat. All three of them will sound kind of crappy on their own but in a mix they really come to life.


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## Ti-Ron (Mar 21, 2007)

keto said:


> Strings make WAY WAY more difference on bass than guitar. Rounds, goundwound,flats, tapes. Steel, nickel, plated or solid, other materials. I spent a lot of dough trying this that and the other, 2-3 years to settle on my preferred DR Lo-Rider Nickel (LR Steel is what L&M carry, and I’ve used them lots but they are more scooped sounding, the nickels are still nicely full range but have some special sauce in the low mids....I may have mentioned, but that’s where I live.)


This is the core, to me.
Bass string have a huge influence on the sound, IMHE. Those DR strings are really nice!


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

Yep ! strings are very important...

Best way to learn, get about 12 to 15 basses and put different strings on each, play them on rotation to learn the differences... after a few years, you'll get to know them by heart... same with amps... set 20 to 30 of them in your living room and play a different a one every day with every bass... 

After that, throw in a pedal and start all over again !


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

_Azrael said:


> Honestly, if you want to learn about bass then start playing with others.
> 
> There’s a lot of tones and techniques that quite frankly sound like shit and are boring as fuck if all you do is noodle away in your basement by yourself.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great pointers. I'm aware of many of them as I have played in bands for years as a guitarist so I understand the role and how to approach it in a band context. Right now I'm looking for a Tone that is a base Bass tone for my own sound. From your explanation of how you dial in your tone, that's exactly what I do with guitar so that's good to know. I've come to the conclusion my original plan of completely approaching the Bass as a "new player" probably isn't the best way to go. I have a lot of experience with the 6 string brother of Bass which in many cases is fully transferable. Just different frequencies. At this point I need to find the sound(s) that compliments my guitar's sound(s). More specifically in recording and not so much in a live mix at this point.


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## Frenchy99 (Oct 15, 2016)

When playing with a band, working with the drummer becomes essential. You become the beat.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Dorian2 said:


> Thanks for the great pointers. I'm aware of many of them as I have played in bands for years as a guitarist so I understand the role and how to approach it in a band context. Right now I'm looking for a Tone that is a base Bass tone for my own sound. From your explanation of how you dial in your tone, that's exactly what I do with guitar so that's good to know. I've come to the conclusion my original plan of completely approaching the Bass as a "new player" probably isn't the best way to go. I have a lot of experience with the 6 string brother of Bass which in many cases is fully transferable. Just different frequencies. At this point I need to find the sound(s) that compliments my guitar's sound(s). More specifically in recording and not so much in a live mix at this point.


Yes and no.

While guitar is physically similar to bass and thus has many transferable skills, musically (IMO) bass has more in common with drums. 

Just about any guitar player can play rhythm guitar on one string an octave down, many don’t know how to comp percussion on a stringed instrument.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

_Azrael said:


> Just about any guitar player can play rhythm guitar on one string an octave down, many don’t know how to comp percussion on a stringed instrument.


Most don't know what the last half of that sentence means haha.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

_Azrael said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> While guitar is physically similar to bass and thus has many transferable skills, musically (IMO) bass has more in common with drums.
> 
> Just about any guitar player can play rhythm guitar on one string an octave down, many don’t know how to comp percussion on a stringed instrument.


Yeah. I was talking in a general sense. And I've been known to comp percussion with other guitar players (Acoustic) when they tend to lose the beat. SO following the idea of the thread, do you have any suggestions on technics for Bass as far as percussion. I'll assume Slap Bass is a good example of that, which is a technique I know nothing about. I'm also interested in hearing about any non standard chord tones to play on Bass given a specific guitar chord. Say for example an A note on the G chord for the 9th sound. I remember something about that type of deal with Cliff Williams somewhere. I like to think that Bass has more in common musically with guitar and other strings but rhythmically more in common with drums. But opinions vary.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Dorian2 said:


> Yeah. I was talking in a general sense. And I've been known to comp percussion with other guitar players (Acoustic) when they tend to lose the beat. SO following the idea of the thread, do you have any suggestions on technics for Bass as far as percussion. I'll assume Slap Bass is a good example of that, which is a technique I know nothing about. I'm also interested in hearing about any non standard chord tones to play on Bass given a specific guitar chord. Say for example an A note on the G chord for the 9th sound. I remember something about that type of deal with Cliff Williams somewhere. I like to think that Bass has more in common musically with guitar and other strings but rhythmically more in common with drums. But opinions vary.


Cliff Williams is more adding the third. You can basically play any note in a chord and aren’t limited to playing the root, but I suspect you’ve already figured this out. A lot of bass lines are root/fifth or root/fifth/third unless you’re playing walking bass lines, which will typically walk up and down the neck outlining the chords

As a tip, most guitarists play ascending licks. Bassists on the other hand will often (but not always) do descending lines and resolve on the root.

As for techniques, it’s not so much about slap as it is about plucking, muting and note duration. With fingerstyle, most guitarists go for sustain and pluck the top of the string. With bass, pull through the string so that the pad of your finger mutes it momentarily between notes, like the beater hitting a drum. It’ll give more a more percussive thump instead of a drone with a better separation between notes and (potentially) a deeper groove. Standard wisdom is to strike on the kick and mute on the snare, but once you get a feel for that you can experiment with pushing and pulling the beat.

If you have any experience playing drums or a good ear for it you can start to play fill patterns. When you and the drummer are locked in and playing the same fills the fills gain more power.

As for guitar, I don’t generally try to lock in with the guitar players and most of the time I don’t even know what they’re doing. I spend most of my time locked with the drummer laying the foundation and driving the song using passing tones to connect the chord changes together. I play most of my counterpoint off the vocal. Sometimes I’ll play off or double the lead guitar. It’s pretty rare that I actually double the rhythm guitar, and that’s usually only for a few bars to emphasis what he’s doing before switching back to the drums.

That said, that’s how I play. Plenty of other people have their own (equally valid) way of playing.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Thanks for the great reply. I do play fingerstyle and Classical to a degree not worth writing home about, but passable to the average listener. All the technique I learned in Classical is coming home to roost on the Bass. I had a heavy Bass hand when I played Piano so it's starting to awaken at this point. I was just playing guitar focusing on the triad inversions on the EADG strings. I started to see the very well known to me scale patterns emerging in a different light. I can get out there sometimes.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

When I first started on bass I played scales because that’s what I knew, but I didn’t understand why some notes worked and some notes didn’t. I don’t have a strong grasp of music theory, so things like major/minor 3rds and flat 5ths and 7ths in the chord progression were throwing me for a loop. I wrote my bass lines using trial and error until things sounded right.

It wasn’t until I learned to arpeggiate the chords that things clicked together and improv became much easier. I play the major shape over a major chord, the minor shape over a minor chord, a diminished shape... blah, blah blah... you seem to have a stronger grasp of chord theory than I do, so hopefully this clicks faster for you than it did for me.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

_Azrael said:


> When I first started on bass I played scales because that’s what I knew, but I didn’t understand why some notes worked and some notes didn’t. I don’t have a strong grasp of music theory, so things like major/minor 3rds and flat 5ths and 7ths in the chord progression were throwing me for a loop. I wrote my bass lines using trial and error until things sounded right.
> 
> It wasn’t until I learned to arpeggiate the chords that things clicked together and improv became much easier. I play the major shape over a major chord, the minor shape over a minor chord, a diminished shape... blah, blah blah... you seem to have a stronger grasp of chord theory than I do, so hopefully this clicks faster for you than it did for me.


Fortunately for myself my goal at an early age was to go to a Post Secondary music program for guitar. This was all preceded by a number of years on Piano. But all that aside, my intention for Bass is to get a good feel for what all of the different levels of Bassists here do for their sound, technique, and note choices to get certain sounds, etc. A good example of that is when Keto mentioned the Strings being so much more of a difference on Bass than guitar. I find both string and pick differences make a HUGE difference in guitar sound, so I was surprised that Bass is even more so? I still have the approach of a guitar player on Bass though, so this is a main factor in me picking your brains. Devil's in the details as they say.

I watched a video after your post earlier which put it more into context with what I think you were saying to me and it was a great help in reinforcing what you said about the role of a Bass player. I've been checking this guy out for a little while on and off. More so now that I'm into it more than before.






Be interesting to hear what yours and other Bassists thoughts are on this.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

I watch him too. Really helpful pointers.

Here's a site you should check out.
Talkbass


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Thanks Larry. Been to TalkBass a number of times to reference my current gear and get other info. Great site.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Dorian2 said:


> Fortunately for myself my goal at an early age was to go to a Post Secondary music program for guitar. This was all preceded by a number of years on Piano. But all that aside, my intention for Bass is to get a good feel for what all of the different levels of Bassists here do for their sound, technique, and note choices to get certain sounds, etc. A good example of that is when Keto mentioned the Strings being so much more of a difference on Bass than guitar. I find both string and pick differences make a HUGE difference in guitar sound, so I was surprised that Bass is even more so? I still have the approach of a guitar player on Bass though, so this is a main factor in me picking your brains. Devil's in the details as they say.


To put this into context, most guitarists use nickel plated steel strings, and many of them will argue there’s little difference between Ernie Ball, D’Addario, GHS, etc. Many of them are using a lot of drive/distortion, which compresses the sound and exaggerates the harmonic content.

With bass, the tone is usually cleaner and the sound of the string is more audible and the texture of the string is more prominent in the mix.

Further, string selection changes how you sit in the mix. A metal player may prefer stainless steel strings for the extra high end to slice through heavy guitars. An R&B player may prefer flatwound strings for their thumpier, more old school tone. A pop/rock player may prefer nickel plated steel roundwounds for a punchy sound with some bite.... or, because a P Bass with rounds sounds more like a guitar and produces that extra thick sound that makes everyone think your rhythm player has killer tone.

Add in string brand on top of that... I find GHS are thick and wooly while Ernie Ball are clear and balanced (some might call them thin), with Fender kind of splitting the difference.



> I watched a video after your post earlier which put it more into context with what I think you were saying to me and it was a great help in reinforcing what you said about the role of a Bass player. I've been checking this guy out for a little while on and off. More so now that I'm into it more than before.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The more you move toward jazz and R&B the more complex/interesting the bass lines. Most pop and rock is fairly simplified, but it’s on a sliding scale in terms of how complex the harmony is (how blues is your rock?)

What Scott teaches is right on the money, but it’s difficult to apply in a rock context if that’s your goal. It’s like teaching a guitar player jazz chords when he’s playing Sex Pistols through a Metal Zone.... the additional harmonics beyond the 5th cause dissonance.

I played in an R&B/Neo-Soul band for a bit and it really pushed me out of my comfort zone and forced me to learn how to play bass better. This song for me was a master-class is bassline composition and is a practical application of everything Scott mentions in that video;


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

I like walking along the fretboard like that.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Omg talkbass is a hive of bitches. Last bass Outpost is much better.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

@_Azrael , yeah I get that. The 2 years I spent in Post secondary music was a "contemporary" school of music...aka all Jazz. You get to the point where even if it isn't your style there are always great lines to fuse into the basic rock structure. People like Stu Hamm and DAve LaRue are great for that type of deal, amongst many others like JPJ mentioned above. .


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## Moosehead (Jan 6, 2011)

Love this, such a cool cat!


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Granny Gremlin said:


> Omg talkbass is a hive of bitches. Last bass Outpost is much better.


I'll check them out too. Haven't found too many issues at Talk Bass. But I don't spend enough time there to really tell. 

EDIT: Just checked. Every link there is "unacceptable" when I try to click. Guess it's a nogo.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Dorian2 said:


> EDIT: Just checked. Every link there is "unacceptable" when I try to click. Guess it's a nogo.


add the www. into the address bar.


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## Granny Gremlin (Jun 3, 2016)

Dorian2 said:


> I'll check them out too. Haven't found too many issues at Talk Bass. But I don't spend enough time there to really tell.
> 
> EDIT: Just checked. Every link there is "unacceptable" when I try to click. Guess it's a nogo.


Maybe it got better but there used to be regular flame wars. There continues to be a lot of misinformation and pointless argument about it.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

laristotle said:


> add the www. into the address bar.


Just checked again through a different link. All good. Not sure what happened there.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

So I have a question for the finger pickers, but people that use the pick are welcome to put in any insight with how you do this as well. For the last week I've been hacking away at Heaven and Hell with the Cheese Cutter special. Extra thick slices for all. I looked up Geezer Butlers rig to get a sense of the basics he's using for his sound. I wound up dialing in the Hartke setting until I found something reasonably close to my inexperienced Bass ears.

As I'm listening to him play, and realizing of course it's a studio recording, I found I could get a bit closer to what I'm hearing by changing the angle of my picking hand tighter to the Bass body so the angle was quite narrow. So in essence lowering my right hand wrist angle so my fingers don't quite "pluck" as much. Pluck isn't the best word for how I was doing it as it but it's the best I can come up with right now.

It would be nice to hear about some techniques used by some of you to achieve a sound, specific or not, either by using the tools you were born with or a pick. On guitar I'm contantly changing the pick angle and thickness for certain sounds so I'd like to get a sense of your approach to this probably often overlooked method.

Thanks.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Dorian2 said:


> changing the angle of my picking hand tighter to the Bass body so the angle was quite narrow. So in essence lowering my right hand wrist angle so my fingers don't quite "pluck" as much


By 'pluck', do you mean perpendicular or 90° to the strings?
I lessen that angle, 45° ish, which, when striking the string, it sorta 'slaps' and gives a hint of Geezer spank.
I don't cut my finger nails too short either. I leave just a bit so that it scrapes past on the stroke, getting a Geddy ish spank.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

laristotle said:


> By 'pluck', do you mean perpendicular or 90° to the strings?
> I lessen that angle, 45° ish, which, when striking the string, it sorta 'slaps' and gives a hint of Geezer spank.
> I don't cut my finger nails too short either. I leave just a bit so that it scrapes past on the stroke, getting a Geddy ish spank.


I'm "plucking" at about a 45° at the moment, but found the tone closer when it was closer to 25° or 30°. It's a little tougher to play at speed that way at the moment but I'm working through it. pluck is probably a poor term to use because I find I'm kinda more "sliding" across the string. It's really F...ing hard to put into words properly. Later today I'll take either pics or video to show you what I mean. You probably already have a good idea now though. I wonder if there's a specific term for it.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Rock/metal fingerstyle players will sometimes push the strings down so they bounce off the fret and clank. It’s useful if you want the attack of a pick, but don’t want to use a pick.

Alternatively, you can use a somewhat low action and just play aggressively. In this case you’re not pushing the strings into the fret, just hitting them hard enough they bounce off anyway.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

_Azrael said:


> Rock/metal fingerstyle players will sometimes push the strings down so they bounce off the fret and clank. It’s useful if you want the attack of a pick, but don’t want to use a pick.
> 
> Alternatively, you can use a somewhat low action and just play aggressively. In this case you’re not pushing the strings into the fret, just hitting them hard enough they bounce off anyway.


Thanks. I'm fairly aggressive already, but for this specific tune it requires a bit less aggression and a slightly flatter angle of attack. It's actually pretty cool for me since I'm starting to listen more like a Bass player at this point than before really digging in like this. Which was a big part of the reason for me to make a thread or 2 here in the Bass section. Weren't you a guitarist at one point in a Maiden cover band? I'll apologise now if I have you mixed up with the person who gave me the heads up on a band a while ago.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

I’ve been a bass player since 2016 when a friend of mine needed a bassist for a project of his and couldn’t find anyone. Before that I was a guitarist and a highland drummer.

I wouldn’t be the Maiden guy. I’m a bit young for them.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Thanks Azrael. Never too young for Maiden though....just sayin. 

SO I figured out while I was playing through H&H again that I wasn't actually so much changing the 45° angle of the picking hand. I was changing the angle of the first joint instead. Phone isn't cooperating for a pic so maybe a short video on it later.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

You're moving air. Can't see it, but you can feel it, hear it. First thing I do is stick my ear to the horn of the bass unplugged, and hear what vibrations are living in that wood. Then hold it against the chest and check that one. All the amps, effects, and what nots are tools of the trade. They are there to help you transmit what you are feeling inside....about the world, about your life. You're holding down the bottom, creating the glue that set's up the melodic tension in the music. Playing bass is spirit check, 24/7, and is a noble endeavor.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Highnoon, I get and agree with that. I don't think your post is directed specifically at my last question, but I will say that how you play an instrument and techniques used can directly affect the way your transmission of feelings comes across to those listening. Thanks for noting the same technique of listening to the Bass as I do with guitars of the 6 string variety. Right now, like I mentioned earlier, I'm approaching Bass as a brand new player on certain things. Just to pick the Bass players brains on method and madness. But you've encapsulated the essence in a very good, if not a little "high and mighty" way.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

Well... this post ended up way longer than I thought, but once the words started rolling....

When I first started playing bass I had no idea what it was supposed to sound like. My first bass was a Godin P/J style bass that I occasionally used for recording, and I ran it through a plugin called American Bass that I thought sounded sweet.

When I got picked up to play bass in an originals band I started thinking I wanted a better bass. Because I hate Strats I played every bass in town that wasn’t a Fender and nothing was really jumping out at me. Active basses in particular were problematic because I didn’t know what the bass was supposed to sound like and all the extra EQ just made the problem worse.

Eventually, I picked up a Fender bass and my mind said, “So, that’s what makes that sound”. I did some more research, went to the store to buy a P bass, then left with a Jazz because I thought the Jazz looked cooler (Olympic white with red tort guard).

I had problems with the Jazz at first because I didn’t like the scooped out of phase to I got with both pickups full up. I almost exclusively soloed the neck pickup because it was closest to what I was used to hearing with the Godin bass. Then, one day at rehearsal I accidentally had both pickups up full when the band kicked off and the sound was killer. I cut through and could hear everything I was doing and the rest of the band somehow seemed clearer. That was a learning moment for me as a bass player... as a former guitarist I kept dialling in too much midrange. It was causing volume wars with the guitar players and complaints that I was too loud, yet I had trouble hearing myself. Once I started to embrace a more scooped sound I sat in the mix better, could hear myself better, the band sounded better, and the volume levels dropped.

Now, months have passed and the band I’m in has started travelling out of town for gigs, and as a budding bassist I felt I should own a Precision to go along with my Jazz. So, I do my research, went to the store to buy a P, and left with a Jazz again. This time I had a better understanding of what a Jazz should sound like and I found one that sounded like a 10 ton hammer. This was my first experience with modern vs vintage style Fender sound, and I feel that I’ve played enough Fenders to say that modern (Am Standard/Professional) is about clarity and articulation while vintage (Roadworn/AVRI/Am Original) is about wool. It’s a thicker, woolier sound that produces more density in the mix but comes at the cost of clarity. I currently own 4 basses, of which my Roadworn Jazz is by far the cheapest, and it’s by far my best sounding bass.

Fast forward a year or two and now I’m playing with a different band. They were going for an R&B/Neo-Soul kind of thing. I started researching old school tone, so I bought a P bass and put flatwound strings it. Problem is, even though I’ve been playing a Jazz I didn’t know what a good P bass should sound like. I picked up an American Professional because I didn’t know what to get and it seemed like a good starting point (that it was Olympic white may have also been a factor).

And, like before it turns out that as I played the P bass more and got a better ear for the sound I started to clue in that it was a little light on the low midrange. My Jazz bass kept swamping it in the mix. This is where I finally connected the dots about modern vs vintage Fender tone. So, I went to the store to buy a Roadworn Precision, which turned out to be difficult because they’re popular, almost everyone was sold out, and the only one I could find sounded like garbage. I even had them put new strings on and give it a setup because I didn’t believe it sounded that bad and the strings must’ve been corroded... but it did.

I wound up running the racks and the bass that spoke to me was an American Original P bass. I even left the store and came back later in an attempt to make sure I wasn’t listening with my eyes (this bass was also Olympic white with a red tort guard), but it was clearly the best sounding bass. I put money down on it and went back to get it when I had more money.

Lastly, I no longer had a use for my Am Standard Jazz I mentioned up near the beginning. After my various experiences I wanted to trade it for an American Original Jazz or a 5 string Jazz, but I couldn’t find one to demo. What I wound up finding is a Suhr Classic J (oddly enough, in Olympic white with red tort) that’d been hanging on a hook for a couple years that sat nicely between the Roadworn MIM and the Am Standard. It wasn’t quite as thick and wooly as the MIM, and it wasn’t quite as clear and articulate at the Am Std. It was a nice middle ground and gets a lot of use because of it.

All that said, while I have a clear preference for a thicker, woolier bass tone that tone doesn’t always work well with different bands. Sometimes what I’m left with after all the other instruments slot themselves in sounds like mud and a brighter, clearer bass works better. Other times the guitarists have a brighter, thinner sound and a little bit of wool is what the band needs. Some bands sound better when I use a P, others sound better when I use a J.

P.S. - I occasionally want a Stingray, but I still have no idea how they’re supposed to sound and sit in the mix, which still makes judging them in a store difficult. Moral: the process of listening and learning apparently never ends.


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## HighNoon (Nov 29, 2016)

Leo nailed it with his first try. Then he updated it a couple times in the 50's, body style, and split coil, hitting home runs each time. Next up the J bass....win. Then later nailed it again with Poppa Ball and the first Ray was born. And then again with George Fullerton he brought out the L1000 (Wunkay).....the MFD humbucker is a beast. Win win win win.....


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

So I guess a White Fender Bass of any sort should do the trick! Awesome. 
Kidding aside, thanks for the detailed response @_Azrael as well as your take @HighNoon. I play a 79 LP deluxe with a midrange heavy SD Custom bridge. That sound that I know might be contributing to a few factors in what I want to hear and what I should be aiming for in a mix. This'll be mainly for recording, but it still has to sit in my guitar sound mix. Helps a lot and I appreciate the time you took to tell your story.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

I've been spending a good portion of my practice time just getting through Heaven and Hell for the last couple of weeks. It's coming along pretty well but the thing that's hooking me a bit is getting the alternate picking as strong on my middle finger as it is on my index. I've always been extremely technique oriented in all my instruments and the Bass is no exception. Trouble is I spent YEARS getting alternate picking technique down pat on guitar, so now I'm expecting it to fly right out of my fingers , which I know ain't gonna happen. It's coming along pretty good though. Having a couple of issues with some of the faster runs in the song partly due to poor setup and finger strength though.

Do you guys have any cool ideas on a fun practice routine for say 10 - 15 minutes a day on alternate picking runs and such. I can probably figure out a bucnh on my own but I'd rather hear from others on their approach.

Thanks much!


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Dorian2 said:


> I've been spending a good portion of my practice time just getting through Heaven and Hell for the last couple of weeks. It's coming along pretty well but the thing that's hooking me a bit is getting the alternate picking as strong on my middle finger as it is on my index. I've always been extremely technique oriented in all my instruments and the Bass is no exception. Trouble is I spent YEARS getting alternate picking technique down pat on guitar, so now I'm expecting it to fly right out of my fingers , which I know ain't gonna happen. It's coming along pretty good though. Having a couple of issues with some of the faster runs in the song partly due to poor setup and finger strength though.
> 
> Do you guys have any cool ideas on a fun practice routine for say 10 - 15 minutes a day on alternate picking runs and such. I can probably figure out a bucnh on my own but I'd rather hear from others on their approach.
> 
> Thanks much!


Any inclination at all to try it with a pick?


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

keto said:


> Any inclination at all to try it with a pick?


Not at this moment for this particular song. I've used a pick previously to this and I'm fine with that approach too. First couple of songs I intend on learning are with finger style though. It's yet to be determined which way I land though. Might be a combination of the two. I might try the song with a pick tomorrow just to see how it works out.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

So I played the tune with both fingers and the flat edge of a 1.14 Dunlop with the flat edge. Pick of course was a hell a lot easier and I rifled through the whole tune with out much of a hitch. But after playing solely with the fingers for the last 2 weeks I feel obliged, technical issues and all, to finish it with that style of picking. I think a part of the reason I'm leaning with fingers is because I'm trying to seperate my guitar style from the style I'll adopt for Bass. I also get a better feel and overall tone that I slightly prefer over the pick. But hey, if I have to pick something up pretty quickly I can go to the pick since that's my main guitar thing. Nothing but a win win.


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## Baconator (Feb 25, 2006)

Good for you for sticking with the idea of expanding your technique! I've been playing bass for over 30 years and I'm still working on my technique, probably more now than ever before. Here are 2 things to incorporate into your practice that can help:

1) practice scales over all ranges of the instrument using alternate picking. The important thing with this is to use a metronome and alternate which finger you start with. This will work on three things at the same time: consistent tempo, scale knowledge and finger independence. If you do this for 5 minutes every time you practice you'll notice improvement quickly.

2) play scales or even single notes in triplets and accent the first note. Better yet, play the first note at normal volume and ay the next two lighter. This will help again with finger independence and help you develop a lighter touch, which isn't as easy as it seems. Again, practice with a metronome as it helps you improve your timing and helps you track your progress. 

Both of these exercises can be altered to incorporate and patterns you want at any tempo or plucking intensity.

I really need to get back to doing these exercises myself!


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

Baconator said:


> triplets


This is my problem, or something I have to work on.
Keeping three fingers going consistently. 
I'd love to be able to gallop like Steve Harris.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Baconator said:


> Good for you for sticking with the idea of expanding your technique! I've been playing bass for over 30 years and I'm still working on my technique, probably more now than ever before. Here are 2 things to incorporate into your practice that can help:
> 
> 1) practice scales over all ranges of the instrument using alternate picking. The important thing with this is to use a metronome and alternate which finger you start with. This will work on three things at the same time: consistent tempo, scale knowledge and finger independence. If you do this for 5 minutes every time you practice you'll notice improvement quickly.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. I thought it would be nice to get a refreshing viewpoint from the players here. Back to basics is always a good thing. Right now I'm working on alternate picking starting on both i and m from the root and going up the major scale with alternates and going down with rakes/alternate. The mighty Metronome has been a mainstay in my practice routine for over 30 years so no issues there.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

laristotle said:


> This is my problem, or something I have to work on.
> Keeping three fingers going consistently.
> I'd love to be able to gallop like Steve Harris.


As a huge MAiden fan, that's one of my goals at this point. Steve uses the 2 finger alternates which apparently a number of Bassists find a problem with. I've checked a few lessons online and I haven't exactly agreed on the approach some of those guys are taking with it using 3 fingers. Just doesn't sound right and it loses the Legato feel to my ear. Just yesterday I was trying to figure out which Maiden tune I'm going to try. Gonna try to keep it simple(r) with Flight of Icarus or possibly some older stuff. The Trooper is a possibility but judging from where I am with Heaven and Hell I'm going to need to run through those alternate picking exercises previously discussed. It's starting to get there though.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Here's one for the guitarist turned Bassist, or whoever plays both types. When you did athe switch, did it have an effect on your approach to the 6 string sibling? I'm finding how I look at and feel the neck is quite a bit different when I pick up the Acoustic or electric. Along with shifting the tonal shape of how I listen to stuff after a little over 3 weeks of this, I'm also playing with more attention to what is or should be going over the parts I play. Whether it be noodling or playing a tune I already know. I think this was a really good move for me because there is a major shift in the way I've viewed things for so long. I'm also hearing where the different frequencies will fall a LOT clearer than before. Kinda wish I did this 20 years ago. Anyone relate to this?


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Dorian2 said:


> Here's one for the guitarist turned Bassist, or whoever plays both types. When you did athe switch, did it have an effect on your approach to the 6 string sibling? I'm finding how I look at and feel the neck is quite a bit different when I pick up the Acoustic or electric. Along with shifting the tonal shape of how I listen to stuff after a little over 3 weeks of this, I'm also playing with more attention to what is or should be going over the parts I play. Whether it be noodling or playing a tune I already know. I think this was a really good move for me because there is a major shift in the way I've viewed things for so long. I'm also hearing where the different frequencies will fall a LOT clearer than before. Kinda wish I did this 20 years ago. Anyone relate to this?


ENTIRELY changed my approach. I no longer have one lol, I quit playing guitar entirely. Oh, I'll pick up a pretty one at a store or someone's place and strum a few cowboy chords.

I know that wasn't helpful


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

That was helpful actually. It's a pretty powerful and compelling instrument and your experience is pretty much proof positive of that.


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

Dorian2 said:


> Here's one for the guitarist turned Bassist, or whoever plays both types. When you did athe switch, did it have an effect on your approach to the 6 string sibling? I'm finding how I look at and feel the neck is quite a bit different when I pick up the Acoustic or electric. Along with shifting the tonal shape of how I listen to stuff after a little over 3 weeks of this, I'm also playing with more attention to what is or should be going over the parts I play. Whether it be noodling or playing a tune I already know. I think this was a really good move for me because there is a major shift in the way I've viewed things for so long. I'm also hearing where the different frequencies will fall a LOT clearer than before. Kinda wish I did this 20 years ago. Anyone relate to this?


It pushed me into a much better understanding of arpeggios and arpeggios within the scales built on each degree of the scale.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

Just checked this out. Seems like a pretty good reference for a few sounds to get to when needed.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

One a different tack, I just put flatwound strings on my Squier J-bass and what a difference. It'll take a bit of playing to get used to the feel of them but I really like them so far for the feel. I need to play around to see what kind of different tones I will get from them but so far definitely less "raspy" which agrees with my tinnitus better.


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## laristotle (Aug 29, 2019)

I use flats on all of my basses.


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## ZeroGravity (Mar 25, 2016)

laristotle said:


> I use flats on all of my basses.


I can see why. I may switch to them on my P-bass as well.


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## _Azrael (Nov 27, 2017)

I’ve never jived with flats. I used them with an R&B band for a bit because I was looking for an old school sound, but for everything else I prefer rounds.


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## Dorian2 (Jun 9, 2015)

No flats for me. Tried em on electric and won't bother with the Bass. Isn't my sound is all.


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