# Classical Guitar....recommendations please



## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I am starting this thread as somewhat of an extension to my other thread entitled "Classical Guitarists".

What makes and models of classical guitars (usually sold by most stores here in Canada) are currently recommended for a total beginner? ....In essence, "the most guitar for the dollar" for someone who just wants to explore it as an alternate to a steel strung acoustic. 

I will establish a maximum of about $500.00 to set some form of parameter. After reading on the internet, I am aware that this price ceiling might be a quite low, but so be it.

Are cedar typically preferred over spruce tops...or this just a personal thing?

Any other suggestions for purchasing a beginner's classical guitar are welcomed.

Thanks

Cheers

Dave


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

One of my go-to recommendations is the La Patrie line offered by Godin. Last I checked there were four levels of design and pricing, and all were great. The basic model, the Etude is a solid reliable guitar at a fantastic price. 

In terms of cedar or spruce, it's personal choice. Cedar sounds a bit warmer, but with spruce it's easier to coax out a broader palate of of colours. I find with some builders I prefer their cedar, and others I prefer their spruce, so you really can't decide until you try the guitars in person. 

I first discovered La Patrie guitars in the 90s. At the time I was a student and I was primarily practicing on an expensive concert classical that my teacher had lent me. I loved playing it, but had to be very careful (wash hands before playing, never touch the french polish with bare skin, etc.).

I saved up $1000 to buy a student level guitar and started doing my tour of the various guitar shops around the GTA. Everything I played felt pretty bad in comparison to the guitar I was used to playing at home.

I finally wound up at The Guitar Shop in Mississauga, where I tried the La Patrie line. At the time, the top model (called the 'Collection') was only $400 and blew away all the other guitars at twice that price. Like I mentioned, I was impressed with all four levels of the guitar, but went for the top one because $400 was still so cheap for such a nice instrument. 

I've played the hell out of that guitar over the years. I learned all of my university rep on it, have taught lessons using it for almost twenty years. The thing is beaten and cracked. Eventually the machine heads disintegrated and I had to replace them entirely. The entire back of the neck is stained dark where the finish has worn off from playing. It doesn't sound nearly as good as it used to, but it still feels great and I play it almost every day.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

La Patries are great. The student models of Yamaha are also solid value for the money. $500 is a pretty good price point. For that money you can get something that's perfectly fine for starting out on and you'll probably be totally happy with, then if you really get totally hooked later on you can leap up to the $3000 range. Honestly there isn't much in between that I would bother with.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Thanks very much for the information and help. 

A friend of mine is lending me her classical guitar (she doesn't play guitar) and I have promised to put new strings on it and give it a bit of a cleaning. I have no idea as to what make or model it is...but I would bet that it was not all that expensive.

Cheers

Dave


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## sulphur (Jun 2, 2011)

Hey Dave, I picked up a Yamaha NXT700 nylon stringed guitar.

This is the thinner bodied model, there's a bigger one. Solid spruce top and nato sides.
They run around $500, but they're electric too, so you may find a strictly acoustic model for less yet.

Quite a nice guitar, built really well.


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## guitardave (Aug 8, 2013)

Hi greco. I am brand new here, and thought I'd throw in my 2 cents about classical guitars. My first CG was an Almansa 403, cedar and mahogany. Long and McQuade carries them, and they are a really great guitar for the price. They are made in Spain, and there are a few different models.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

Hi guitardave...Welcome to the forum. Hope you enjoy it here and please post often.

Ironically, there is an Almansa A 402 with a hardshell case being advertised on our local Kijiji. The seller lives about 5 blocks from me, but hasn't responded to the email I sent through Kijiji.

http://kitchener.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-musical-instruments-guitars-Classical-Guitar-with-Case-Almansa-W0QQAdIdZ471830484


Tonight, I bought new strings for the guitar that I am borrowing from a friend. I think I'll be tuning/stretching until Christmas. I'm not used to restringing classical guitars.

While I was at the store, I took time to look at the classical guitars they had. There was a Yamaha CG 160S on consignment for $299.00 (no case). It had some cosmetic wear, but seemed very nice. I think it was from the 80's. Any opinions on that model?

Cheers

Dave


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I really like the La Patrie ones I've tried.

If something ever happened to my classical (An old MIJ guitar with a brand that isn't sold anymore), I'd look at La Patrie.
In fact if I was to get serious about classical, I might just buy one any way--at least some of them are better than the one I have.
Although I like the bluesy sounds I can coax out of mine.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

The Almansa guitars are a great value. I have one.

I'd probably look at the la Patrie hybrid if I were shopping right now. Radiused fingerboard, and a built-in pickup system. La Patrie's also have side marker dots on the neck, which many classical guitars don't.


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

Merlin said:


> I'd probably look at the la Patrie hybrid if I were shopping right now. Radiused fingerboard, and a built-in pickup system. La Patrie's also have side marker dots on the neck, which many classical guitars don't.


Funny, one of my only complaints about the La Patrie classical guitars is the obscene number of fret markers. They've always appeared to me to be an unnecessary addition, included only to boost sales with beginners who don't know any better.

The reality is that classical guitars need only a single 7th fret marker, as:
- 1 to 3 are obvious
- 5 and 9 are similarly obvious via the 7th fret marker
- 12th is where the body meets the neck

While I personally don't necessarily find it distracting to have a bunch of unnecessary fret markers, some players can be quite picky about it.

High quality classical guitars frequently ship with no fret markers at all so the buyer can add only the ones they want later on (a quick and easy job for any luthier). Of course the buyer will at least add the 7th fret marker, but the guitar ships with none at all so that the buyer can have matching markers if they like more than one.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

Not having fret markers is easy to get used to. I've been markerless for 17 years now. If you really want a fret marker then a sticker or a drop of whiteout does the job fine but lots of us play with no markers at all.


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## zontar (Oct 25, 2007)

I have a finish blemish at the 3rd fret on my classical--so it functions as a fret marker.
But it does have a couple of markers.

I personally like them, but I don't live or die by them.


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## Merlin (Feb 23, 2009)

Having markers - side dots - can be a lifesaver when you're reading parts on a session. Been there.


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## Clean Channel (Apr 18, 2011)

To any competent classical guitarist, the entire neck is plain as day using only a 7th fret marker, regardless of situation.

IMO, markers beyond that make no more sense than labeling a fork, spoon, and knife to remember which is which.


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## buzzy (May 28, 2011)

greco said:


> Tonight, I bought new strings for the guitar that I am borrowing from a friend. I think I'll be tuning/stretching until Christmas. I'm not used to restringing classical guitars.


I'm not an expert at this but I've heard that nylon strings should _not_ be stretched and that it can take a day or two for everything to settle in. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on this subject can shed more light on it.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

buzzy said:


> I'm not an expert at this but I've heard that nylon strings should _not_ be stretched and that it can take a day or two for everything to settle in. Perhaps someone with more knowledge on this subject can shed more light on it.


Before restringing the classical, I watched several tutorials on YouTube. Some suggested gently stretching the strings, some didn't. 

From what I gathered, it could take closer to a week to get the strings to settle. 

For the most part, I sound like a *percolator* when playing the "G", "B" or high "E" strings. This is not an expensive guitar...but the other 3 strings sound quite decent to me.

Nice to see some discussion about classical guitars in the GC forum.

Cheers

Dave


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## bw66 (Dec 17, 2009)

I have a LaPatrie Etude that I bought several years ago. I'm a pretty decent player and it hasn't held me back yet. 

I actually took formal classical lessons last year from a fantastic player and he never once suggested that a better guitar might be in order - though to be fair I didn't ask.

FWIW I like the fret markers. I find it makes the transition from a 14-fret instrument (my usual) to a 12-fret much easier. I guess it comes down to how your brain calculates where you are on the fretboard.


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## kat_ (Jan 11, 2007)

greco said:


> For the most part, I sound like a *percolator* when playing the "G", "B" or high "E" strings. This is not an expensive guitar...but the other 3 strings sound quite decent to me.


I could be worth experimenting with different strings on it. There's a lot of variety to classical strings - normal vs high tension (different for every brand), composites, rectified trebles. It can be really hard to predict which strings any particular guitar will like. I once had a Ramirez R4 that sounded horrible with any D'addario strings. You don't have to go expensive, just try something different next time. Since treble strings last longer than the basses most classical guitarists have a stash of extra trebles laying around so might be able to help you experiment really cheaply.


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## buzzy (May 28, 2011)

greco said:


> Before restringing the classical, I watched several tutorials on YouTube. Some suggested gently stretching the strings, some didn't.
> 
> From what I gathered, it could take closer to a week to get the strings to settle.


I did a bit of looking around and I see what you mean. There seems to be a wide range of opinions. 

I should have assumed that you would have researched the matter beforehand. I apologize for that.

Have fun with the guitar!


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## evantide (Feb 12, 2013)

In my opinion, it doesn't matter stretching them or not, not takes longer that's all, but once they have settled, they ain't going to stay there anyway, temperature and humidity come into play and you have to re-tune it anyway, sometimes many times during playing I found. I like to detune it a tone down, sometimes when it's stored, it could snap a string, especially the "D" string. Maybe it's just my guitars that do that. Anyway, I thought I'd put my too cents in here, love them classicals.


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