# GC to move to Subscriptions



## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

I have been mulling over this situation for several months and it has become clear that I will have to move the forum into the realm of a subsciption service similar to our much larger American cousin. I want to lay out my reasoning to all of you, especially the senior members who made this place what it is today.

1) Traffic on the forum is up 57% from December of 2008
2) The donation system has generated roughly $60.00 in 2009 (thanks to those that did donate)
3) My personal financial situation no longer affords me to use extra cash to run this as a hobby
4) I continue to purchase the latest software via vBulletin etc to keep the site as current as possible in the tech area. We will be introducing vBulletin 4.0 as soon as Beta testing is done. Probably within a month. This software alone was pretty expensive, plus yearly licensing fees.
5) We continue to get a lot of people signing up and posting a quick 20 to gain access to the For Sale area. This cannot be stopped and is a pain for those of us that would like some community involvement
6) Our current growth rate would see us gain another 2500 members in the next year
7) For anyone over 200 posts you will automatically get the first year free
8) This subscription would be for use of the For Sale area only. Buyers would not require to pay the subscription, only sellers. All other areas of the forum remain open to anyone without charge.
9) It is a nominal fee when you think of it. It will keep the forum running and allow me to keep it up to date with the latest software and features

I have always wanted to keep this place a free site for all guitar freaks. That was the original intention. However, I am not going to pester people for donations and the meager amount that google ads pay is nowhere near what is required to pay for the whole operation. I am currently working with my service provider to work out the most economical plan and take into account the expected growth of the site. Although the actual active membership is nowhere near our competition we take a large amount of hits from visitors daily. 

It can be looked upon as a donation, I hope that is the way most of you will feel. But there needs to be a system in place to generate that and not have me or anyone else soliciting donations.

Many of you may not agree with my decision but it is one that I find is necessary given the current state and projections for growth and hosting fees, software, upkeep etc. 

I will be activating the system soon. Again, those members with a post count of 200 or more will see no change in access. You will automatically be put into the highest subscription service. This will also boost your PM's to a 500 limit.


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## dan_ (Feb 5, 2008)

So I guess I should spam a quick 16 posts today! hwopv (I kid.)

If the ads don't support the expenses, it's a no brainer. I don't think many will mind.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

I think the minimum post count should still be enforced before being able to subscribe to the For Sale forums. If that is even possible.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> I think the minmum post count should still be enforced before being able to subscribe to the For Sale forums. If that is even possible.


I think that can be maintained as well. Should be possible


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

This is good with me. I was going to start a thread recently to try and inject some shame into buyers and sellers to get them to donate  (my personal thinking is that anyone who sells ANYTHING should throw at least a few bucks to the site every time). That said, I myself have not done so this year, making me a hypocrite :sport-smiley-002: out of neglect, not intent. Procrastinators HO! tomorrow some time, or whenever we feel like it 

So, I'm sending in a few bucks now, even tho according to the above I don't have to - I really want to 

Scott - can we send you money thru bank direct/EMT rather than PayPal?


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

kqoct I think you lost me in the details there.

The subbie, is it "only" for the "for sale" or is it for the forum in full?


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

i think we should ALL subsbribe...200 to 2000 post. you got to be one cheap bastard not to be able to subscribe. even with the free year, count me in for right now whatever the cost is. 

This place is a gold mine, and gold mine should'nt be cheap..or for cheap people..LOL.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

keeperofthegood said:


> kqoct I think you lost me in the details there.
> 
> The subbie, is it "only" for the "for sale" or is it for the forum in full?


Just the For Sale forums and only for creating threads(ie. selling).


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Sounds to me like TGP, full access except buy & sell, which is done on a subscription basis. And even without, you can still look, just not post.

Something else to consider maybe.....an upper tier "gold level" or whatever for those willing to donate more - maybe picture hosting on the site or MP3's or whatever for (just throwing out a number) $35/yr or something like that.

Or not, just thinking out loud. Not trying to create 'elitism', just perks for those who can/will pay more.


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

keto said:


> So, I'm sending in a few bucks now, even tho according to the above I don't have to - I really want to


Ditto. I've been procrastinating on this for too long! Thanks for all you do!
:bow:


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> Just the For Sale forums and only for creating threads(ie. selling).


:wave: Thanks Jeff


I am un-subbed to a lot of the places I normally sub, tight funds and all. Not opposed to the need, it only makes sense. I will put it on my radar to include GC with hotmail, photobucket, deviantart, and the rest for the new year 

Um, question though. The Dealer Emporium can that not be seen as a "sale" forum as well?




keto said:


> Sounds to me like TGP, full access except buy & sell, which is done on a subscription basis. And even without, you can still look, just not post.
> 
> Something else to consider maybe.....an upper tier "gold level" or whatever for those willing to donate more - maybe picture hosting on the site or MP3's or whatever for (just throwing out a number) $35/yr or something like that.
> 
> Or not, just thinking out loud. Not trying to create 'elitism', just perks for those who can/will pay more.



Yes, this is how a lot of the sites work. I like it. I miss my deviantart sub immensely for the benefits. I hate my hotmail subbie but I need it because I have a lot of sales emails stored there and I don't want it randomly deleted for not logging in monthly. Added benefits for 20 or 30 or so bucks a year is a decent incentive


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

keto said:


> This is good with me. I was going to start a thread recently to try and inject some shame into buyers and sellers to get them to donate  (my personal thinking is that anyone who sells ANYTHING should throw at least a few bucks to the site every time). That said, I myself have not done so this year, making me a hypocrite :sport-smiley-002: out of neglect, not intent. Procrastinators HO! tomorrow some time, or whenever we feel like it
> 
> So, I'm sending in a few bucks now, even tho according to the above I don't have to - I really want to
> 
> Scott - can we send you money thru bank direct/EMT rather than PayPal?


You can send it to [email protected] which is the same as the PayPal account email address.

But please guys, I feel bad already. I am not asking anyone to send in donations. I hate doing that. Thats why I figured that this system kind of does it automatically and takes me out of the personal area. If you know what I mean. It will be cheap. I am setting the basic 1 year at $10.00 and the top one at $20.00 the difference being some added forum features and big PM increases.

thanks for the support guys, appreciate it


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## Stratin2traynor (Sep 27, 2006)

I don't mind paying at all. I think it is a great idea. This is my home away from home - and at home as well....

You got my support. Thanks for all of your hard work in keeping this forum going. 

:food-smiley-004:


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

keeperofthegood said:


> :wave: Thanks Jeff
> 
> 
> Um, question though. The Dealer Emporium can that not be seen as a "sale" forum as well?


Well the Dealer Emporium doesn't generate near the traffic (which translates into $$ bandwidth) the For Sale forums do. But I guess Scott would have to consider doing the same there as well sooner or later.


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## ne1roc (Mar 4, 2006)

Would you be willing to let us know what it costs you to run this site per year?
I am surprised the ads are not generating more for you??? My friend is running a site(nothing to do with cheap guitarists) with a much smaller membership and is generating up to $400.00 a month on the ads? I am going to find out what exactly he's doing?


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

ne1roc said:


> Would you be willing to let us know what it costs you to run this site per year?
> I am surprised the ads are not generating more for you??? My friend is running a site(nothing to do with cheap guitarists) with a much smaller membership and is generating up to $400.00 a month on the ads? I am going to find out what exactly he's doing?


I imagine if you are willing to completely dilute the forum with adds you could make all kinds of money. Personally, I'd prefer no adds and to subscribe to keep it that way.

.02


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

jeff flowerday said:


> i imagine if you are willing to completely dilute the forum with adds you could make all kinds of money. Personally, i'd prefer no adds and to subscribe to keep it that way.
> 
> .02


+100000000


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

ne1roc said:


> Would you be willing to let us know what it costs you to run this site per year?
> I am surprised the ads are not generating more for you??? My friend is running a site(nothing to do with cheap guitarists) with a much smaller membership and is generating up to $400.00 a month on the ads? I am going to find out what exactly he's doing?


Last year I think the hosting was around $800 mostly because we ran over and I was charged for the over-use. I am working with the providers to get us on the best plan, most economical for what we are using and taking into account the future growth. I maybe spent about $400 on new software this past year. VB 4.0 was $200 as well. I think the yearly licence is something like $120 US or so.

Google runs anywhere from $1.50 to sometimes $4.00 per day. Beleive me, if I was turning over $400 a month in google ad money I would not be posting this thread. I see it increasing as time goes on. But, I would also be inclined to get rid of it if we dont need it too. I could fill the site with a lot more google in link ads etc, but I hate those things and I am sure most of you do too.

Plus you have to factor in time as well. I am on this thing everyday from about 10:00 am to 10:00 pm and the mods are on most of the day too.

Believe it or not I get at least 5 registrations a day from Africa and other areas that are spam. I have had to go to a moderation on all new members and thats a royal pain in the ass.


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## bagpipe (Sep 19, 2006)

I'll happily pay a subscription fee, even if I very rarely use the For Sale forums. This is by the far the best music forum that I visit, has the friendliest vibe, helpful to new members etc. Bring it on.


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## guitarman2 (Aug 25, 2006)

I'm more of a buyer than a seller, so I guess this doesn't affect me. But for the $10 a year it would probably be worth it to subscribe anyway as I do occasionally like to list FS ads.


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## david henman (Feb 3, 2006)

...i'm in, as well. when i think back, i have benefitted immensely by participating in this forum.

-dh


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## kw_guitarguy (Apr 29, 2008)

GuitarsCanada said:


> Last year I think the hosting was around $800 mostly because we ran over and I was charged for the over-use. I am working with the providers to get us on the best plan, most economical for what we are using and taking into account the future growth. I maybe spent about $400 on new software this past year. VB 4.0 was $200 as well. I think the yearly licence is something like $120 US or so.
> 
> Google runs anywhere from $1.50 to sometimes $4.00 per day. Beleive me, if I was turning over $400 a month in google ad money I would not be posting this thread. I see it increasing as time goes on. But, I would also be inclined to get rid of it if we dont need it too. I could fill the site with a lot more google in link ads etc, but I hate those things and I am sure most of you do too.
> 
> ...



Sent you a pm.....can certainly do something about that $800...

~Andrew


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2009)

I'll pay. Even to read. I like this place.


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## al3d (Oct 3, 2007)

we should all give something...we all enjoy comming in and discuss, exchange, etc etc. SCott's not asking for much. if everyone sends 15 or 20$ a year, we're all set. it's nothing different then going someone's house everyday and drinking his beer and never offering to buy back some of it.!"....

My donation is sent.


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## keeperofthegood (Apr 30, 2008)

kqoct srsly, with two kids birthdays 4 days apart, with Halloween, thanks giving and Christmas also a part of the time span, I am tapped right out till January!


:rockon2: But come January I will have a 10 or 20 to set up here, it is "ON MY LIST" right after The Geek Group :rockon2:


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

keeperofthegood said:


> kqoct srsly, with two kids birthdays 4 days apart, with Halloween, thanks giving and Christmas also a part of the time span, I am tapped right out till January!
> 
> 
> :rockon2: But come January I will have a 10 or 20 to set up here, it is "ON MY LIST" right after The Geek Group :rockon2:


You are covered. All you guys with 200 plus posts have been moved into the Gold user group. Your subscriptions are covered for a year


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## Swervin55 (Oct 30, 2009)

I'm very new here, but not to forums in general and I concur with all previous accolades that the atmosphere and enjoyment factor here far exceed any of my other experiences. Donation just made (I too apologize for procrastinating). Thanks for the time, consideration and passion you put into this forum. 
Swervin :smile:


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

I just donated to the cause. I have not made a donation in quite a while and have been intending to do so.

I spend a huge amount of time on this forum and I don't feel that GuitarsCanada should have to pay for my access to all the enjoyment, friendship, knowledge, etc.

Again, many thanks to all those that make this forum possible.

Cheers

Dave


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

*Important!!!!!!*

If anyone is planning on donating with less than 150 posts make sure not to use the regular donate button but do so via your UserCP link to _Subscriptions_.

You can find it here:

http://guitarscanada.com/Board/payments.php


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## Big_Daddy (Apr 2, 2009)

Jeff Flowerday said:


> If anyone is planning on donating with less than 150 posts make sure not to use the regular donate button but do so via your UserCP link to _Subscriptions_.
> 
> You can find it here:
> 
> http://guitarscanada.com/Board/payments.php



I used the DONATE button earlier. Did you receive my Paypal?


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## twoonie2 (Jan 19, 2008)

I'm all for it!! Always glad to help out!!


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2009)

GuitarsCanada said:


> You are covered. All you guys with 200 plus posts have been moved into the Gold user group. Your subscriptions are covered for a year


That is unbelievably nice. Thanks.


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## mario (Feb 18, 2006)

Paypal sent. Thanks for the great forum!


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## tomyam (May 14, 2007)

im up for it


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

*six-string*

well i did buy a guitar from someone i met on this site. 
haven't sold anything yet....but i might want to list something.
hey $10 or 20 for a year is fine with me.
i'd pay that just for the comic relief i get reading some of the threads around here!
thanks to all for the hard work they put in to keep this place going.
play on dudes!


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Membership levels can be found here:

http://guitarscanada.com/Board/showthread.php?t=29169


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## hollowbody (Jan 15, 2008)

Yeah, I'm with the others. I get enough out of this place to warrant a membership fee without even taking the For Sale forums into account. I'll wire you some cash after the Leafs game.


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## zjq426 (Aug 23, 2009)

ok. sign me up


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## shiva (Jul 9, 2008)

Just a suggestion, but you can get dealers to sponsor a forum board for a charge. You may also want to set up a small system for dealers, like a classified section. Easy to do with VB.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

keto said:


> (my personal thinking is that anyone who sells ANYTHING should throw at least a few bucks to the site every time).


to me that sounds fair. if you make a sale from here, giving a cut should be quid pro quo (did i use that right? i'm not sure)



al3d said:


> i think we should ALL subsbribe...200 to 2000 post. you got to be one cheap bastard not to be able to subscribe.


in principle i agree that anyone who regularly reads the forum should contribute _something_ if it's doable for them.


another site i participate on has a donationware section where members who have donated can access downloads that non donating members cannot. maybe there is something along those lines that can generate some income for the site? the site i'm speaking of offers models for flight simulator, because they are a flight sim forum. this being a music forum, maybe there could be a section to download lessons, or tone profiles, or something like that.


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## avalancheMM (Jan 21, 2009)

I'll absolutely cough up some jingle. I read this forum at least once a day, and have learned much, and laughed lots, etc. Whatever you need, I'm in! Great forum, and kudos to the people who work hard and keep it running. The 'Canadian' attitude and sensibility shines through here, and feels entirely different than any forum our friends south of the 49th, thank you again for providing us a place.

Regards


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

I spend a lot of time in here and is the only place where I totally trust people when I'm buying something. The subscription is reasonable. 

I just sent a donation through email. Thanks Scott for keeping the site going.


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## mrmatt1972 (Apr 3, 2008)

Sounds very fair. I'll donate too (eventually...) kqoct


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## Jim DaddyO (Mar 20, 2009)

Sent in my money, well worth it. Even if I don't sell, it is worth the $20. I am on a lot and it is part of my morning routine with coffee...hmmmm, coffee, cigarettes, guitars, all addictions.


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## shoretyus (Jan 6, 2007)

I'll send some money soon but I have been doing some_ cash_ projects that don't go into the bank... hwopv. 

Any thoughts on some of the builders pooling resources and putting together a GC guitar to raffle off?


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## Chorduroy (Feb 10, 2008)

I sent my subscription fee. I'd never be able to get by in life without being able to buy and sell on the GC forums.

Greatest. Forum. EVER.

:smilie_flagge17:


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Appreciate the support guys. This place is what it is because of all of YOU. Remember that all you old timers have been placed into Gold Memberships for a year. Thanks for building this forum up with useful, insightful and helpful info. We have a ton of visitors reading and learning from all those posts everyday.


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

*GuitarsCanada*....If you don't mind me asking, has this thread helped in obtaining a significant level of financial recovery (i.e., not just a "drop in the bucket amount) for what you have invested personally? 

I certainly hope so.

Cheers

Dave


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## The Kicker Of Elves (Jul 20, 2006)

Guess I would qualify for a free Gold Membership.

Paid for one anyhow...not planning to sell any gear in the near future but I sure have bought a lot through GC.

More than happy to donate.


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

greco said:


> *GuitarsCanada*....If you don't mind me asking, has this thread helped in obtaining a significant level of financial recovery (i.e., not just a "drop in the bucket amount) for what you have invested personally?
> 
> I certainly hope so.
> 
> ...


There have been several people signing up as well as sent donations. very much appreciated of course. But when you think of how much money I have into the whole GC experience? Well, I started it about 10 years ago and the forum has been running now since Jan of 2006. So it would be safe to say that I am into the project for several thousands of dollars over the years in software, hosting etc

Not complaining mind you. It's been a lot of fun too and the info gained from everyone is priceless.


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## Rumble_b (Feb 14, 2006)

Gold membership paid for. I think this is a great idea, I don't want to see this site go away.


Jon


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## greco (Jul 15, 2007)

GuitarsCanada said:


> So it would be safe to say that I am into the project for *several thousands of dollars over the years in software, hosting etc*
> 
> Not complaining mind you. It's been a lot of fun too and the info gained from everyone is priceless.


WOW...I had NO IDEA of the costs you have incurred through time !!

I know that you aren't complaining...but I feel badly that I have had so much enjoyment from this forum...and, to the greatest extent, it has been "on your dime".

Knowing this, I will now remember to donate more frequently.

Again, many thanks to all those that "make it happen"

Cheers

Dave


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

This is a great site and I have no issues with paying an anual fee to use it. I've donated a couple of times but hey, it shouldn't cost you a nickel to provide this environment to so many people.

How much did you have in mind for the annual fee?:smilie_flagge17:


Edit: I just checked into the "become a supporting member" thread. Very reasonable. I've been donating at the "gold member" level anyway. As far as I'm concerned, not only should this not COST you anything, but you should make a profit on it.

Thanks for your efforts.


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## Mooh (Mar 7, 2007)

Besides the overhead costs, there is your TIME! I'm happy to ante up. 

Thanks for all you do.

Peace, Mooh.


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## six-string (Oct 7, 2009)

well i'm all paid up now...well consider it a donation or a small thanks.
and now if i can add some jocularity to the proceedings....

GO FOR THE GOLD CANADA!: :smilie_flagge17:


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## Lowtones (Mar 21, 2006)

I don't do Pay Pal. (long story) However if you PM me the information I will send you a cheque or money order or EMT.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

keto said:


> +100000000


:bow:

Scott has removed the Google adds from all sections. Our wish has come true.


:bow:


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## pattste (Dec 30, 2007)

I think this is a no brainer. With the amount most of us spend on gear each year, what's $10-20 to keep this board and the great community alive. I'm already a supporting member on The Gear Page and will become one here too.


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## gproud (Mar 2, 2006)

I've been here for a while and have no excuse for not having 200+ posts, so I'm down with subscribing. Most of my time has been spent in the For Sale section, and I've done more gear sales here than any other board I'm on.


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## avalancheMM (Jan 21, 2009)

Gold subscription Pay Pal'd today, thanks for the whole site, AND the forum!

Regards


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

All you gold subscribers, don't forget about the free photo hosting you get right here on the forums. Just look in your UserCP and set up an album.


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## LeftyLang (Mar 4, 2006)

This is a great place...I'm in for a subscription. sdsre


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## 1PUTTS (Sep 8, 2007)

PayPal sent. I'm gold, Jerry...GOLD!

Love this place and it's a very small price to pay for what I think most of us get out of it...thanks again.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

Testing local pic hosting


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

keto said:


> Testing local pic hosting


The pic hosting is for your personla photo album only. The rest of the site is still the same as before.


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## dwagar (Mar 6, 2006)

> Originally Posted by al3d
> i think we should ALL subsbribe...200 to 2000 post. you got to be one cheap bastard not to be able to subscribe.


I agree completely, I've sent in my $20.

I can't recall if I've sold anything on here, maybe, but I do know I have scored a few great deals on here as a buyer. 

And we should all support it because of the knowledge base, the comedy, and the people we've met on here.

One thing, if you have other pic hosting, don't use the GC hosting other than for avatars and sig pix. Bandwidth is expensive.


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## keto (May 23, 2006)

GuitarsCanada said:


> The pic hosting is for your personal photo album only. The rest of the site is still the same as before.


Not quite sure I understand....do you mean that it's just for a gallery that others can go look at, not for pics to be posted into threads? Why the boxes below the pics in albums with urls then?

If so not an issue, I only use a tiny % of my photobucket account....just didn't/don't understand the purpose of local pic hosting then.

What I thought originally when this was announced was that we would be able to pull pics directly off our computers to be posted into threads....that's rarely done any more I know, but used to be more or less standard on a lotta sites.

Thanks


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

keto said:


> Not quite sure I understand....do you mean that it's just for a gallery that others can go look at, not for pics to be posted into threads? Why the boxes below the pics in albums with urls then?
> 
> If so not an issue, I only use a tiny % of my photobucket account....just didn't/don't understand the purpose of local pic hosting then.
> 
> ...


You are correct, we need to clarify that more. The hosting is only for your personal photoalbum. I assume that you could link to it for other area of the forum but there is a limit as to how many and how big they can be. Pictures are the biggest drag on bandwidth imaginable. With the amount that we have on here we could never host them, would cost a fortune to do it. We have to stick to third party hosting on the majority.


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## Stephen W. (Jun 7, 2006)

al3d said:


> ... you got to be one cheap bastard not to be able to subscribe...


Sorry, I DON'T agree. Although I have sent in my $20 I did so begrudgingly. I joined this forum in June 2006 but failed to make the 200 post count. I'm not saying anything against this site, it's creator, contributors, moderators or advertisers. I fully understand the need to "cover costs". It just seems that every time I turn around another group I'm involved with has it's hand out for more money. 

I am or was a member of many clubs, organizations and subscription websites. At one time I earned a good wage and had disposable income to throw at my hobbies. Now the company I work for is applying for work share. That will cut my already tight income even more. I know I'm not the only one in this boat. Ten or 20 bucks might not seem much but if I was to continue with all my hobby groups I'd be spending many hundreds of dollars every year. For example, I was a member of the Toronto Fingerstyle Guitar Association. I recently realized that I had paid $20 per year for two years in which I never attended a single event. Nor did I purchase discounted tickets to see any shows sponsored by them. Forty dollars I'm sure Randy appreciated but for which I received nothing. So the 20 bucks that would have gone to them for 2010 went here instead.

I do not need the ability to store 500 PM's. I do not require space to store photos on this site. I believe everyone has the ability to store files with their ISP, I know I do. If not, there are many free on-line sites so I fail to see the advantage in this. Please, educate me. I have never sold anything thru this or any on-line site. I'm not a post hor nor do I supplement my income via the buying and re selling of goods. I feel that anyone posting more then 5 items a year in the classifieds should pay a premium.

For myself, I'd like to have an avatar and a signature. I feel 20-30 PM's would be more then adequate. The ability to post a few items for sale each year would be nice too. I would hope to see Guitars Canada join forces with other groups and offer "paid" members discounts on concert or show tickets. Perhaps organize some free events. We'll see what 2010 brings. Might be that 2011 sees my GC subscription money go to some other group.


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## Jeff Flowerday (Jan 23, 2006)

Stephen W. said:


> Sorry, I DON'T agree. Although I have sent in my $20 I did so begrudgingly. I joined this forum in June 2006 but failed to make the 200 post count. I'm not saying anything against this site, it's creator, contributors, moderators or advertisers. I fully understand the need to "cover costs". It just seems that every time I turn around another group I'm involved with has it's hand out for more money.
> 
> I am or was a member of many clubs, organizations and subscription websites. At one time I earned a good wage and had disposable income to throw at my hobbies. Now the company I work for is applying for work share. That will cut my already tight income even more. I know I'm not the only one in this boat. Ten or 20 bucks might not seem much but if I was to continue with all my hobby groups I'd be spending many hundreds of dollars every year. For example, I was a member of the Toronto Fingerstyle Guitar Association. I recently realized that I had paid $20 per year for two years in which I never attended a single event. Nor did I purchase discounted tickets to see any shows sponsored by them. Forty dollars I'm sure Randy appreciated but for which I received nothing. So the 20 bucks that would have gone to them for 2010 went here instead.
> 
> ...


Stephen, you do realize that GuitarsCanada isn't an organization it's one person that has been footing the bill for this place since you joined?

I think the things you feel you should receive for free and feel should be coming with a paid *(optional)* subscription is a bit much. Especially when you consider the free services you received since 2006 wasn't free for him.


Jeff


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## Chito (Feb 17, 2006)

Stephen W. said:


> I do not need the ability to store 500 PM's. I do not require space to store photos on this site. I believe everyone has the ability to store files with their ISP, I know I do. If not, there are many free on-line sites so I fail to see the advantage in this. Please, educate me. I have never sold anything thru this or any on-line site. I'm not a post hor nor do I supplement my income via the buying and re selling of goods. I feel that anyone posting more then 5 items a year in the classifieds should pay a premium.


You didn't have to put in any money at all and you would've still been able to do exactly the things you want or expect to do on this site as you mentioned above. The subscription is primarily for those who wants to be sellers, who probably also need the 500 PMs for their transactions. It is also for those who are willing to donate some money for running this site. The subscription is optional and since you feel it doesn't benefit you at all, you didn't have to pay.


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## wolfbane2222 (Nov 23, 2009)

I am new here and really enjoy all the kindness and information that i have seen !

i have been on other sites that IMO come no where close to the kindness of its members and staff !!!

That being said i will be donating very soon , And chances are i will never use the forsale section of this site .
That being said I want to thank all the members and the staff for welcoming a newbie that knows nothing of Guitars and asks many silly questions!
i look forward to a portion of my future meeting new freinds and learning and sharing in a passion that we all have here !


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## urko99 (Mar 30, 2009)

I'm In. Ive gotten a lot of good advice, and learned a lot, and met some good people. Great solid membership base here! I'll be contributing!


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## Duster (Dec 28, 2007)

Now I understand how I ended up with a Gold membership. And here I was, thinking I had blacked out at some point in the last year.

Personally I think 2010 will be the year of the subscription, and I think we'll be seeing a lot more of this kind of thing. Real world magazines and newspapers felt the pinch when content moved online, where it was "free". The fact is, the "real world" was subsidizing the "virtual world", and as more and more of the world moves online, it's going to get tougher and tougher to pay the bills. We're now realizing that bandwidth is NOT unlimited and free, and we're realizing that there was a very good reason we used to pay subscriptions for magazines and newspapers. Quality information isn't free, and neither is the man- and brain-power to bring it to you.

If I may make a suggestion (which I think we'll see a lot of this year): have you thought about making the financial information of the website completely public? I think we'll see a lot of forums become more like formal clubs this year, with an annual financial statement so the club members can see how the club is doing. Most clubs have a budget, and some kind of fundraising effort to make the budget. If GC released that they were $500 short of the budget, we could have a drive to raise the money. I'm sure there are lots of people with some disposable income that don't mind throwing an extra $20-$30 in, if they know it's required. And that could help defray the costs for other members, who are truly tapped out.

--- D


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## GuitarsCanada (Dec 30, 2005)

Duster said:


> Now I understand how I ended up with a Gold membership. And here I was, thinking I had blacked out at some point in the last year.
> 
> Personally I think 2010 will be the year of the subscription, and I think we'll be seeing a lot more of this kind of thing. Real world magazines and newspapers felt the pinch when content moved online, where it was "free". The fact is, the "real world" was subsidizing the "virtual world", and as more and more of the world moves online, it's going to get tougher and tougher to pay the bills. We're now realizing that bandwidth is NOT unlimited and free, and we're realizing that there was a very good reason we used to pay subscriptions for magazines and newspapers. Quality information isn't free, and neither is the man- and brain-power to bring it to you.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the feedback. You are 100% correct on what is happening for the online thing. So you can imagine a situation that never had an income to begin with. I get where you are coming from on the whole club thing but to be very honest with you budgets, clubs, financial statements and fundraisers are more work for me. I am trying to get this thing on as much of an autopilot as I can. I need to really start focusing on our business here at home or I am going to lose my shirt and Marnie's too. I still need to put in a lot of time on software and upgrades. I seem to always be dealing with some kind of glitch. Avatar sizing is my latest one. Still working on that.


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## RIFF WRATH (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi GC......my bad.........I,m sitting on $50 that was donated to me at the June 09 RIFF WRATH jam........my intention was to donate it to the site.......I have to update my Pay Pal account (new Visa #).......what can I say except I guess I,m suffering from old timers........I think the subscription fee idea is great and this site is awesome........will get my stuff together shortly......cheers, Gerry


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## Zeegler (Jan 2, 2006)

I just found out about this, and I'm honestly on the fence. I wasn't aware that donations had been asked for in the past (I am admittedly not very observant), and I really am surprised that very few people stepped forward and gave some bucks. Considering so many people say how much they love this site, and say that a subscription isn't a big deal, why did none of you donate willingly? Personally, I'm not on here that often, and already donate (willingly) to a few sites that I've been hanging out on for years. I rarely post ads either, and as far as I remember, I've only ever had one successful sale as a result. Almost all my gear sales (maybe 3 or 4 per year) are through Kijiji. I really don't care how many PMs I can get, and I don't need any pic hosting, if it's just for personal use. I don't mean to be a party pooper and shit on the parade, but I really don't think it's worth it for me. 

I hope for everyone's sake that the subscriptions don't cause a substantial decline in users.

Peace!


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

> I hope for everyone's sake that the subscriptions don't cause a substantial decline in users.


i dont see how it could- it might slow things in the buy/sell section, sure, but how would it affect regular posters? im sure most of the people who post in areas other than the classifieds would continue to do so, even if the classifieds didnt exist. for myself, it affects nothing. ive bought a couple things here, but the classifieds dont mean that much to me.
ill continue to post, and ill pay the subscripton fee when necessary-its cheap.


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