# The Female Bassist



## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

Food for thought

https://reverb.com/blog/an-open-let...ail&utm_term=0_5889ed6702-c62ad9d5d4-55734029


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2016)

I agree.
You can't tell the difference when you're 'listening'.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

The bass always sounds more booby to me when a female's playing.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2016)




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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

I don't see people for their gender, race or country of origin for that matter. If you move me with your performance (Be it instrumental or vocal), that's I care about.
Blow me away with your talent...the rest does not matter


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

way, wayyyyy down on my priority list of "shit cheezyridr needs to worry about anytime soon"


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Still a good article, because clearly it's still an issue.

I then went to the "spotlight" article they linked, and got educated one hell of a bassist.


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## sambonee (Dec 20, 2007)

We live and die by our words and actions. 

I enjoyed the commentaries more that the article. The basis of this article it to declare what now should not be said. Well freedoms doesn't work thr way. That's why "IMO" is such a great addendum to one's comments


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## Lola (Nov 16, 2014)

I am loving this thread! No more gender tags attached!! A musician is a musician regardless of sex!


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

Music is for listening, ideally we wouldn't know the gender anyway (at least for recordings).
Many of my fave bassists are female, and while I'm very supportive, this article seems to me a bit of a "solution in search of a problem". Where is "female bassist" a common expression or sub-group? Is this something common in bass player or music writer circles?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

laristotle said:


>


Plus there is always this.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

When I read the tittle of the thread I thought it was about female bass players and not what someone figured they should or should not be called. Almost all the ladies I know have no problem being called a female truck driver or welder or dr. . They don't want to be mistaken for a man. For that matter, one of the Drs at the clinic I go to is a lady. The prostate tests are a bit different but are about the same as ones done by a male Dr. I just smile more.


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## Guitar101 (Jan 19, 2011)

Electraglide said:


> The prostate tests are a bit different but are about the same as ones done by a male Dr. _I just smile more._


Why, because of the smaller finger.

My Doctor uses two fingers. He says it's in case I need a 2nd opinion.


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2016)




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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

jb welder said:


> Music is for listening, ideally we wouldn't know the gender anyway (at least for recordings).
> Many of my fave bassists are female, and while I'm very supportive, this article seems to me a bit of a "solution in search of a problem". Where is "female bassist" a common expression or sub-group? Is this something common in bass player or music writer circles?


It's a common expression every time there's a female playing bass in a live setting I'm pretty sure. Which is why this article came about.


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

The amount of misogny on this board lately has been pathetic. Boob jokes, "the wife", lumping all women into the homogeneous category "they", and of course "pics of hot chicks" whenever possible regardless of the topic, are as lame as making fart noises with your mouth. It is sad that in 2016 we have to even discuss why this type of stuff is garbage but . . . .

Thanks for the link OP. Hopefully it gives somebody a moment for reflection.

TG


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

traynor_garnet said:


> It is sad that in 2016 we have to even discuss why this type of stuff is garbage but . . . . Thanks for the link OP. Hopefully it gives somebody a moment for reflection. TG


Yeah this thread went downhill pretty quick.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

Jeeeeez, lighten up. I saw no malice.

Does going 'full PC' have to kill all the joking around? Forever and ever?


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

High/Deaf said:


> Jeeeeez, lighten up. I saw no malice. Does going 'full PC' have to kill all the joking around? Forever and ever?


I have an excellent sense of humour and so far nothing I've seen here is even remotely clever.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Guitar101 said:


> Why, because of the smaller finger.
> 
> My Doctor uses two fingers. He says it's in case I need a 2nd opinion.


I don't think that's it....especially when I have to bend over and cough at the same time.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> It's a common expression every time there's a female playing bass in a live setting I'm pretty sure. Which is why this article came about.


I've never heard someone say, "On drums Buddy Rich, on piano Jerry Lee Lewis and the female bassist Leather Tuscadaro.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

hardasmum said:


> I have an excellent sense of humour and so far nothing I've seen here is even remotely clever.


Hmmmmm, I don't see anything on this page remotely clever. I did not realize you were the arbitor of 'all things clever'. I guess I never got the memo. Carry on with your superiority complex, it's amusing.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> I've never heard someone say, "On drums Buddy Rich, on piano Jerry Lee Lewis and the female bassist Leather Tuscadaro.


When describing a band, people will usually point out anything outside the status quo of white male musician whether they realize it or not. Does one introduce their gay friend as their gay friend, or just their friend? Some people would still say " this is my gay friend" or "this is my friend (he's gay)" without realizing that the individual in question may not want their orientation included in their introduction. It's the same as telling a friend about someone's sexuality before they meet them "to prepare them" or any other version of "just so you know so you don't say the wrong thing." Just treatthem as equals and keep on truckin'.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

High/Deaf said:


> Hmmmmm, I don't see anything on this page remotely clever. I did not realize you were the arbitor of 'all things clever'. I guess I never got the memo. Carry on with your superiority complex, it's amusing.


I'm so clever that you missed how clever my last post was thus making me the arbiter of "all things clever" AND the champion of the Internet.

A-ha!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> When describing a band, people will usually point out anything outside the status quo of white male musician whether they realize it or not. Does one introduce their gay friend as their gay friend, or just their friend? Some people would still say " this is my gay friend" or "this is my friend (he's gay)" without realizing that the individual in question may not want their orientation included in their introduction. It's the same as telling a friend about someone's sexuality before they meet them "to prepare them" or any other version of "just so you know so you don't say the wrong thing." Just treatthem as equals and keep on truckin'.


I guess things have changed a lot between my generation and yours. We would say, '.....and Budda was playing guitar....' not, '.....and Budda, a black, colored (what ever todays word is) man was playing guitar.....' If you pointed anything out it would be that someone had a new guitar or the band had a new drummer. For introductions usually it's, 'This is Budda. This is George, Animal, Animal, '45, Panhead and Sloppy.'. If it's more than that it would be, 'This is Mr. Budda, my new neighbour. He's RCMP.....drug squad.....don't go near his dog.'. Important stuff.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

hardasmum said:


> I'm so clever that you missed how clever my last post was thus making me the arbiter of "all things clever" AND the champion of the Internet.
> 
> A-ha!


For some reason the picture you posted has a strangely Blues Brothers feel.


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## bzrkrage (Mar 20, 2011)

Budda said:


> Just treat them as equals and keep on truckin'.


Hang on, are we saying that "bass players" are to be treated as equal? !?


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

bzrkrage said:


> Hang on, are we saying that "bass players" are to be treated as equal? !?



now that is funny!


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

bzrkrage said:


> Hang on, are we saying that "bass players" are to be treated as equal? !?


To maybe drummers. That's about it.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Sorry - my fault for the path of the thread. I'll own it.

TBH, I'm running out of threads to read and I would have loathed an honest discussion about the act of saying "female bassist". Couldn't imagine tbh.

I like how Sean alluded to the Mises article (I believe Larry posted) on government control via political correctness. That would have been a good tangent, but we just went there not too long ago.

I also have a hard time hearing men emphatically support gender equality, when I'm certain everyone has been sexist either to fit in, or cause cleavage caught your eye, or whatever. Unless someone lives that perfect life (?) of not seeing gender - ever - you're a hypocrite - unless of course you've "been healed" by a dose of saltpeter or something .

On a side and not meant to be harsh, but sometimes it helps if you start the thread with your own opinion or a question of some sort to accompany the link. I know steadfastly gets shit on a lot for not doing that.


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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> I guess things have changed a lot between my generation and yours. We would say, '.....and Budda was playing guitar....' not, '.....and Budda, a black, colored (what ever todays word is) man was playing guitar.....' If you pointed anything out it would be that someone had a new guitar or the band had a new drummer. For introductions usually it's, 'This is Budda. This is George, Animal, Animal, '45, Panhead and Sloppy.'. If it's more than that it would be, 'This is Mr. Budda, my new neighbour. He's RCMP.....drug squad.....don't go near his dog.'. Important stuff.


That is how I would introduce people as well. But since someone who works at Reverb has seen enough of "female bassist" that they felt compelled to write an article, we may be in a minority in the music world. I don't honestly know.


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## Scotty (Jan 30, 2013)

adcandour said:


> I also have a hard time hearing men emphatically support gender equality, when I'm certain everyone has been sexist either to fit in, or cause cleavage caught your eye, or whatever. Unless someone lives that perfect life (?) of not seeing gender - ever - you're a hypocrite - unless of course you've "been healed" by a dose of saltpeter or something .


Valid point, well said and guilty as charged in the respect that attractive or sexy women do catch my eye. I would not be human, or I'd be dead if I didn't notice or appreciate them. So of course I see gender. That being said, I wouldn't identify that person "That way" It's not "Sarah the _hot looking_ musician", it's still "Sarah _the_ musician". It doesn't colour my opinion on their skills or abilities. It doesn't make me a hypocrite in my mind.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

it always gets on my nerves when i see some over-estrogenated guy go all feminist on other guys. i don't believe in feminism, i think it's a complete crock of shit, unless you live in bahrain or something. crying feminism in the west is no different than all the middle class emo kids who are depressed because their life doesn't suck.
you never hear these people asking for equality when it comes to the non-fun parts of equality. ever hear a woman complain that there aren't enough women being trash collectors or sewage treatment workers? ever hear them complain about not having to register for the draft? how about asking for equal penalties in murder or sexual assault cases? how about women start showing up in the kind of jobs that routinely kill large numbers of men? nope. you won't hear feminists crying out for that kind of equality. because they don't really want equality. they want preferential treatment. i don't subscribe to male vagification, i find it detestable. 

we have a "female bassist" in our band, and she's pretty bad-ass, too. *i was happy to bring her in, in part BECAUSE she's a woman*. although i didn't specifically look for a woman, i had hoped a qualified female candidate would try out. i want her pov as a woman to flavor the music we make. certainly her life experiences will be different than mine. she should have a pov i can never have. what's wrong with wanting to make good use of differences we all know are going to be there?


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

i have to wonder if anybody finding fault in this thread actually knows any females-
and if they do, what sort of females are they?
women are far more obsessed with this stuff than we are.
this is what they want.
our pre-occupation with boobs and stuff is an evolutionary thing.
without it we wouldnt be here.
and in the end, for us, its all that matters.
nothing else in our maleness means anything-especially now that our usefulness as hunters/warriors/builders has evaporated..

its nice to pretend weve evolved past this and that, but we havent.
and if we did- well then there wouldnt be any reproducing and the women of the world would be pissed.

i was working in this shop once, and there were 3 females in the front office-
they left the intercom on.
so 10 guys hear their discussion out in the shop.
the topic- who of the mechanics would you most like to fuck.
2 of them said my name, one of whom was married to the guy i was working with at that moment.
i gave him a thumbs up.
he never liked me after that.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Budda said:


> That is how I would introduce people as well. But since someone who works at Reverb has seen enough of "female bassist" that they felt compelled to write an article, we may be in a minority in the music world. I don't honestly know.


Maybe in the music world but not I think in the real world. And some guy who works at reverb....isn't reverb just another internet store?


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

fraser said:


> i have to wonder if anybody finding fault in this thread actually knows any females-
> and if they do, what sort of females are they?
> women are far more obsessed with this stuff than we are.
> this is what they want.
> ...


Most of the women I know want just the same as most of the guys I know. That includes sex. Reproduction is just a by product of that. Most of them were never obsessed with the equality thing....it was just something in the news tho a lot of us guys liked and still like the burn the bra/no bra thing.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

fraser said:


> i was working in this shop once, and there were 3 females in the front office-
> they left the intercom on.
> so 10 guys hear their discussion out in the shop.
> the topic- who of the mechanics would you most like to fuck.
> ...


That's hysterical.

I went to work at a children's hospice with a friend of mine (he was working for me part time). We had to remove contaminants from the pool room (behind some laser light show-thing), so we got in hazmat gear, but had to strip down first. When we went to hide from the all-female staff, they all moved in a manner that would allow them to watch us. This included the shift manager who confessed she snuck a peak. At a children's hospice?!?_ Daaammmmn_ ladies.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> Most of the women I know want just the same as most of the guys I know. That includes sex. Reproduction is just a by product of that. Most of them were never obsessed with the equality thing....it was just something in the news tho a lot of us guys liked and still like the burn the bra/no bra thing.


bras- they are meant to give lift to sagging boobs- yes?
useless for anything other than attracting mates.
see, it goes early and deep.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

fraser said:


> bras- they are meant to give lift to sagging boobs- yes?
> useless for anything other than attracting mates.
> see, it goes early and deep.


Attract mates? I thought they were for "common decency" And are you saying boobs are useless or bras are useless. I have no problem with sagging boobs on women.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)

depends what you think decency means i guess.
i havent owned underwear since i was like 12.
i meant bras were useless- certainly not boobs- sagging or otherwise.


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## Guest (Feb 15, 2016)

fraser said:


> our pre-occupation with boobs and stuff is an evolutionary thing.
> without it we wouldnt be here.


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## fraser (Feb 24, 2007)




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## Budda (May 29, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> Maybe in the music world but not I think in the real world. And some guy who works at reverb....isn't reverb just another internet store?


An internet store with a vast reach. I don't claim to be feminist because I am just as guilty of sexualizing women along with most others. But I understand the want and need to be respected by others. I also don't know if the article was written by a male. We live in an age where the pronouns are "he, she, it, they" but some people aren't informed or are slow to come around. I think it's only a matter of time.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Wit


Budda said:


> An internet store with a vast reach. I don't claim to be feminist because I am just as guilty of sexualizing women along with most others. But I understand the want and need to be respected by others. I also don't know if the article was written by a male. We live in an age where the pronouns are "he, she, it, they" but some people aren't informed or are slow to come around. I think it's only a matter of time.


With a name like Eric Garland there a good chance the writer is a he. And from what I can see it's an internet store with a limited reach to a smallish community. I figure this https://reverb.com/blog/members-of-...fess-face-possible-imprisonment-and-execution is more relevant. I've seen a programs on tv about this for at least the last 5 years.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Reverb _is_ big - LA Music, Cosmo Music, Lil' Demons, The Arts Music Store are brick/mortar shops within that site (and they're just the local ones to me).

I wouldn't say that article is more relevant, but it's certainly more interesting to me.


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## Lord-Humongous (Jun 5, 2014)

Did anyone catch the piece about Carol Kaye on Reverb?


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Just let me know when we have to stop calling women "women". I can't keep up with this shit.

How about just treating everyone with the respect they earn and deserve, regardless of gender, race, religion, blah, blah, blah. There are some pretty nasty descriptors out there in the world that we should focus on, "female" isn't one of them, but then I don't work for a company trying to make a story out of nothing.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Lord-Humongous said:


> Did anyone catch the piece about Carol Kaye on Reverb?


Kaye is superb and her catalogue of songs is pretty damned impressive.

https://reverb.com/blog/spotlight-on-carol-kaye-bassist-and-music-educator?_aid=tank


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

cheezyridr said:


> it always gets on my nerves when i see some over-estrogenated guy go all feminist on other guys. i don't believe in feminism, i think it's a complete crock of shit, unless you live in bahrain or something. crying feminism in the west is no different than all the middle class emo kids who are depressed because their life doesn't suck.
> you never hear these people asking for equality when it comes to the non-fun parts of equality. ever hear a woman complain that there aren't enough women being trash collectors or sewage treatment workers? ever hear them complain about not having to register for the draft? how about asking for equal penalties in murder or sexual assault cases? how about women start showing up in the kind of jobs that routinely kill large numbers of men? nope. you won't hear feminists crying out for that kind of equality. because they don't really want equality. they want preferential treatment. i don't subscribe to male vagification, i find it detestable.


Too true. PC run amok. And then they have that smug holier-than-thou superiority going on.



> we have a "female bassist" in our band, and she's pretty bad-ass, too. *i was happy to bring her in, in part BECAUSE she's a woman*. although i didn't specifically look for a woman, i had hoped a qualified female candidate would try out. i want her pov as a woman to flavor the music we make. certainly her life experiences will be different than mine. she should have a pov i can never have. what's wrong with wanting to make good use of differences we all know are going to be there?


My singer / rhythm guitarist is female. She brings in ideas and perspective that we other three don't have. I value that a lot. But I don't act like I'm unaware she's female. Or that it's a bad secret that must be withheld, like incontinence or something. I could teach her to play bass, I suppose, but that would require a lobotomy as well.


(ooops My apologies to pussy members that probably find bassplayer jokes insensitive as well. Grow a pair, bitch!)


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## Accept2 (Jan 1, 2006)

This thread has way too much bitching in it. We need more Sawa on bass...............


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

UH OH! Looks like these guys have done a lot of work getting rid of gender.

https://www.grammy.org/recording-academy/announcement/category-list

Are the majority of women in the industry really worked up about this? Are the American Music Awards, Academy Awards, etc. next?


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

I think part of the kerfuffle about labelling someone as a "female bassist" probably has as much to do with the perceived role of the bass in contemporary music as it does with gender roles/stereotypes.

Face it, for many years, bass was perceived as just _there_, in a supporting role. Many pop bass players would take up bass because there were already enough (and maybe too many) guitar players in the band. It wasn't something one would aspire to, or study; it was a default role. Jazz could have "star" bassists, partly because it was often quiet enough music that a bass could be heard when the drummer switched to brushes and the horn player hung back for a dozen bars. Bassists in jazz also composed. But pretty much until Paul McCartney, bass players were in the shadows, just off to the side of the drummer. A bass player who was out front _and_ sang was disorienting for many.

Having women in the band was also a little odd for many. Sure, they might be at the mic singing, or off to the side frugging in fringed skirts (think Ikettes), but they would rarely be "part of the band". There were the exceptions, like the Velvets' Moe Tucker, or the drummer in The Honeycombs. Some of you may remember the Kim Sisters, the trio of National-slinging Korean siblings-in-sequins who would often appear on Ed Sullivan (see below). And maybe, the woman in the band would strum a guitar off to the side like June Carter. But they weren't thought of as _making_ the music, merely _accompanying_ it.









So, on both counts, the notion of a woman playing bass in a manner that is fundamental to the sound of an ensemble breaks two stereotypes at once: the bass player as more than just someone in the back, and women as more than just singer or "support" for the rest of the band....the _real_ band. In many ways, when a woman plays bass, it indirectly says "Hey...you...stop looking at the frontman/woman or whoever is contorting their face, THIS stuff here..._matters_."


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## traynor_garnet (Feb 22, 2006)

Holy crap! Unbelievable and sad.

1.) Noting that being female is irrelevant to playing bass ≠ pretending people (even bass players) are not women. 
2.) A human _subject_ who _chooses to exercise_ her sexuality (like every adult man does ≠ being objectified as a sex _object_ by 0thers. Two totally different things here and one doesn't necessitate/negate the other.
3.) Feminism = _preferential _treatment? Simply ridiculous and completely uninformed. Even the most surface level understanding of feminism would quickly dismiss this; feminist have long fought to have women included in male dominated occupations. The problem is being exclusionary not preferential.
4.) Finding women attractive ≠ hypocritical support of women's rights. WTF could this even mean? 
5.) The PC rebuttal has about as much meaning as the word "proactive." People use it when they don't really have anything to say. Try "Poo Poo" instead, at least it isn't a cliche.

Such a crude set of "either/or" thinking, basically just replaying the historical "slut or saint" dichotomy in other words. 

Pretty much time to check out of this mess.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

adcandour said:


> Reverb _is_ big - LA Music, Cosmo Music, Lil' Demons, The Arts Music Store are brick/mortar shops within that site (and they're just the local ones to me).
> 
> I wouldn't say that article is more relevant, but it's certainly more interesting to me.


Reverb is big I suppose, in the online guitar world, if that's what interests you. And if flipping instruments etc. is your thing. On the other thing, calling a lady a female bassist vs a heavy fine and possibly being killed for your music. Hmmmm, that's a toughie.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

Accept2 said:


> This thread has way too much bitching in it. We need more Sawa on bass...............


How about Marcelle Mitchell, bass player for the Ladybirds.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

Electraglide said:


> On the other thing, calling a lady a female bassist vs a heavy fine and possibly being killed for your music. Hmmmm, that's a toughie.


I don't understand how one story is more relevant than the other. Relevant to what? That's all I meant.


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## cheezyridr (Jun 8, 2009)

Accept2 said:


> This thread has way too much bitching in it. We need more Sawa on bass...............


man, that gives me hope to see that. knowing that somewhere, bad-ass mofos are still kickin it, the way it should be done. lots of leather, chainsaw guitars, smoke and fire. thanks for that. it made me feel alot better this morning.



traynor_garnet said:


> Pretty much time to check out of this mess.


awesome! it makes it easier when we don't all have to try and edify you on why you're completely wrong.


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## Adcandour (Apr 21, 2013)

traynor_garnet said:


> Holy crap! Unbelievable and sad.
> 
> 1.) Noting that being female is irrelevant to playing bass ≠ pretending people (even bass players) are not women.
> 2.) A human _subject_ who _chooses to exercise_ her sexuality (like every adult man does ≠ being objectified as a sex _object_ by 0thers. Two totally different things here and one doesn't necessitate/negate the other.
> ...


So, re# 4 - my point: Men are pigs or were pigs who now suppress (by some conditioning) the urge to _be_ pigs. Even the way you chose to pop into the thread is the VERY thing I'm talking about - you're a pig too, btw.

re#5 - Read the Misus article on PC and see it from a different perspective. Read davetcan's link - they decided to do away with female/male for this year's grammies? Next thing you know our groins will look like those from a Henry Darger drawing.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

davetcan said:


> UH OH! Looks like these guys have done a lot of work getting rid of gender.
> 
> https://www.grammy.org/recording-academy/announcement/category-list
> 
> Are the majority of women in the industry really worked up about this? Are the American Music Awards, Academy Awards, etc. next?


Seems that a lot of people are getting worked up about various award shows and who, in some peoples point of view, are being 'ignored'.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

traynor_garnet said:


> Holy crap! Unbelievable and sad.
> 
> 1.) Noting that being female is irrelevant to playing bass ≠ pretending people (even bass players) are not women.
> 2.) A human _subject_ who _chooses to exercise_ her sexuality (like every adult man does ≠ being objectified as a sex _object_ by 0thers. Two totally different things here and one doesn't necessitate/negate the other.
> ...


#2...."...*a human subject who chooses to exercise her sexuality...*" not too sure tg but I think you might just have put your foot in it there. Especially when you take #3 into consideration.


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## hardasmum (Apr 23, 2008)

High/Deaf said:


> Too true. PC run amok. And then they have that smug holier-than-thou superiority going on.


Most of the folks I hear complaining about "Political Correctness" are middle aged, heterosexual white guys.




























*This post does not imply that High/Deaf or anyone else contributing to this thread, or considering to contribute to this thread is a) a racist, b) a misogynist or c) a homophobe.

Any inference made by members of the Guitars Canada Forum was not entirely intended by the poster but may have resulted due to guilt, denial or simple misinterpretation.

This "pussy" has left the building.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Electraglide said:


> Seems that a lot of people are getting worked up about various award shows and who, in some peoples point of view, are being 'ignored'.


True of pretty much every single awards show, and every "top 100" list. Could be Grammies. Could be R&RHOF. Could be Oscars. Could be a Rolling Stone list, a Guitar World list. Doesn't matter. _*Somebody*_ is going to complain about who is missing from the list.

Now, that doesn't mean that people who complain about lists/awards that are manifestly biased is wrong. Rather, people are simply never going to be pleased about lists/awards whether the lists are biased or not.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

hardasmum said:


> Most of the folks I hear complaining about "Political Correctness" are middle aged, heterosexual white guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's what PC stands for. I'll be damned.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

hardasmum said:


> Most of the folks I hear complaining about "Political Correctness" are middle aged, heterosexual white guys.


Or old farts like me.

I'm actually all in favour of PC where it makes sense and/or does not impinge on Free Speech. I realize that's like walking a tightrope.

But again, I'm old and grew up in a different time than most of you, also a different society. I still struggle with things like "actor vs actress". What was wrong in calling someone an actress? There was no insult implied, at least not by me when I used it.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> That's what PC stands for. I'll be damned.


I know what it stands for but I've given up trying to understand how to interpret it.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

davetcan said:


> Or old farts like me.
> 
> I'm actually all in favour of PC where it makes sense and/or does not impinge on Free Speech. I realize that's like walking a tightrope.
> 
> But again, I'm old and grew up in a different time than most of you, also a different society. I still struggle with things like "actor vs actress". What was wrong in calling someone an actress? There was no insult implied, at least not by me when I used it.


I think we sorta might be in the majority here dave. Grumpy old farts on CPP who don't give a damn what someone not yet 50 says. Not too sure what your 'society' was like growing up but actor/actress was proper usage in mine. If there wasn't a gender related name then stating someone was a female something was ok....a female boxer/cashier etc.. As far as being 'politically correct'.....screw that. I didn't grow up that way.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Often the line between giving someone their dignity and respect, and merely being deferential-under-pressure, is blurred.

Times change. Terms change. Tempers change. It happens.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> I think we sorta might be in the majority here dave. Grumpy old farts on CPP who don't give a damn what someone not yet 50 says. Not too sure what your 'society' was like growing up but actor/actress was proper usage in mine. If there wasn't a gender related name then stating someone was a female something was ok....a female boxer/cashier etc.. As far as being 'politically correct'.....screw that. I didn't grow up that way.


Grew up in a VERY rough part of the UK but ended up going to a grammar school so I got a mix of "educations". Life in working class UK was very different than life in Canada for many reasons. I grew up somewhere like this, LOL.


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## mhammer (Nov 30, 2007)

Luxury. Pure luxury!


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## jb welder (Sep 14, 2010)

hardasmum said:


> Most of the folks I hear complaining about "Political Correctness" are middle aged, heterosexual white guys.





davetcan said:


> Or old farts like me.





Electraglide said:


> I think we sorta might be in the majority here dave. Grumpy old farts


Here, let me fix that for y'all (yes, I "R" one 2 ) :
"Most of the folks I hear *complaining* are older heterosexual white guys"


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

jb welder said:


> Here, let me fix that for y'all (yes, I "R" one 2 ) :
> "Most of the folks I hear _complaining_ are older heterosexual white guys"


Nah, 'cause we complain about everything. That's what the wife says.


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

jb welder said:


> Here, let me fix that for y'all (yes, I "R" one 2 ) :
> "Most of the folks I hear *complaining* are older heterosexual white guys"


I have a good friend who is a bit older than me and a female lesbian, she can out complain me any day of the week 

Come to think about it I'm getting sick and tired of people saying all old white guys just sit around complaining about stuff. Even if it's true it doesn't give people the right to say it.


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## Electraglide (Jan 24, 2010)

davetcan said:


> I have a good friend who is a bit older than me and a female lesbian, she can out complain me any day of the week
> 
> Come to think about it I'm getting sick and tired of people saying all old white guys just sit around complaining about stuff. Even if it's true it doesn't give people the right to say it.


There's a male lesbian? Yeah, I know guys I've heard the jokes. Last Sept the wife's middle daughter got married. I now have a step daughter and a step daughter in law. They're in their mid 40's and man can they complain. A friend of my older brothers is more happy than gay and in her early 70's.....has a masters in complaining. Anyway, quit complaining Dave the weather's changing here and everything aches.


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## High/Deaf (Aug 19, 2009)

hardasmum said:


> Most of the folks I hear complaining about "Political Correctness" are middle aged, heterosexual white guys.


There you go again, defining and catagorizing us by our age, sexual orientation, race and gender. Why can't we all just be people. 


(And I'll take middle-aged as a compliment. Thanx.)


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## davetcan (Feb 27, 2006)

Electraglide said:


> There's a male lesbian? Yeah, I know guys I've heard the jokes. Last Sept the wife's middle daughter got married. I now have a step daughter and a step daughter in law. They're in their mid 40's and man can they complain. A friend of my older brothers is more happy than gay and in her early 70's.....has a masters in complaining. Anyway, quit complaining Dave the weather's changing here and everything aches.


LOL, I threw the "female" in because I could. There is obviously no point in saying it, just as there is no point in saying "female bassist" but I'm not about to lose any sleep over it, and I very much doubt Carol Kaye or Tal Wilkenfeld would either.


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## amagras (Apr 22, 2015)

I learned a lot about session bass today!


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## jimmythegeek (Apr 17, 2012)

I tbought this argument died in the late 90s. When I think female bassist I think Esperanza Spalding or Kim Deal. The same as when somebody says male dancer I think Barishnakov. Someone who excels at something that society feels they have the wrong genitals for


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