# Canadian $ on par with US $



## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

Start ordering those guitars and amps.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

This is terrible for Canadas manufacturing sector and indeed for any Canadian enterprise that sells to the US.

Remember boys and girls, Canada has a huge trade surplus with our neighbors to the South.

Factories are closing folks and people are losing their jobs.

Before you wring your hands in glee at the prospect of buying goods cheaply in Buffalo or Detroit you might want to consider that.


Also it's important to consider that it's really not that our dollar is strong, but that the US dollar has plumeted.


I'm hoping a change in administration in Washington will turn things around.


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## Maxer (Apr 20, 2007)

Anyone gleeful that this will mean an instant lowering of prices for American-made goods had better give their head a shake. It will take some time for inventory bought pre-parity to clear the distribution channels.

On the other hand, I am glad that it means that my Apple gear will be less expensive than they used to be.


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## flashPUNK (Feb 16, 2006)

I'm wondering how the US Dollar lowering will effect travel abroad..
I'm supposed to be touring in Europe and Australia at least twice in the next 6-12 months....
At least this lower American dollar will be helpful for my trip to NY, during CMJ!


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## Tarl (Feb 4, 2006)

Milkman said:


> This is terrible for Canadas manufacturing sector and indeed for any Canadian enterprise that sells to the US.
> 
> Remember boys and girls, Canada has a huge trade surplus with our neighbors to the South.
> 
> ...


The place I have worked for the past 20 years is indeed in peril due to this parity. Our "weaker" dollar of the past was a huge incentive for US customers to buy our goods. 1100 well paying jobs are at stake here and I hope the dollar falls or the US dollar climbs very quickly.....


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## searchin4signal (Sep 23, 2006)

Milkman said:


> This is terrible for Canadas manufacturing sector and indeed for any Canadian enterprise that sells to the US.
> 
> Remember boys and girls, Canada has a huge trade surplus with our neighbors to the South.
> 
> ...



I'm one of those guys that lost their job when my factory closed down.....I can't afford any amps or guitars.....
We may be one small step closer to a "North American Economic Union"


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## Ripper (Jul 1, 2006)

Maybe it's time that we started to work on expanding and increasing our trading partners a bit instead of being so reliant on the americans to purchase our goods. The cattle industry has started doing that since the whole border shutdown mad cow fiasco and it has been working fairly well and more and more cattle being sold to other countries instead of the us.


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2007)

I'll be curious to see if this impacts the price of books in Canada....


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## Graham (Jan 26, 2007)

ClintonHammond said:


> I'll be curious to see if this impacts the price of books in Canada....


Only if there is enough rukus, else wise it'll be business as usual. I wonder if when you buy a book and it lists the Can and US amounts if you said you'd like to pay in US funds. :smilie_flagge17:


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

I was talking about ordering second-hand stuff off Ebay, not doing all your shopping in the US.

Besides, I doubt many regular Canadians will lose as much as I have because of the exchange rate. Remember, I live abroad and I plan on returning to Canada soon. I just don't want to remember what the exchange rate was when I bought my home here.


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## NB-SK (Jul 28, 2007)

Paul said:


> <rant on>
> 
> What about books? Are they going to drop the Canadian price on books? There have been two prices on the dust jacket for a long time, and there is no reason for us to pay 30% more for a book.
> 
> <rant off>


I don't think it's just the exchange rate. It's quite possible that Canadian retailers don't get as good a deal as American retailers because of the relatively small volume that they order...and since they don't sell as many books, they have to sell their books at a higher price in order to cover their costs.


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## Milkman (Feb 2, 2006)

Paul said:


> There are a million theories.....but we are really bad at economic nationalism, for lack of a better phrase. In Germany most manufacturers deal with local suppliers and subcontractors. There is not a lot of Asian content in Automotive, White Goods and Consumer products sold in Germany.
> 
> Wal-Mart, (not to start a WM bashing thread), is, I believe, the single largest importer from China. That's our fault... we buy almost exclusively on price. As we are learning, and will continue to learn, that's not always the best long term plan. If we want to support the Canadian/North American economy, they we must put our money where our wealth creation is. That's in agriculture, resource & manufacturing. There is no wealth creation or real added value in the service industries.
> 
> Canada is a net exporter of Energy, yet we are tied into world commodity prices for oil & gas. I'm starting to get myself in a position where I can live on less than 1/2 of my current salary. I'm 41, and I decided this year that I will retire in 9 years. I'lllet you know how I do.




I'm taking a different approach. I'm working half as hard and planning on retiring when I reach 100.


Let me know if your dad needs a replacement when you retire, LOL.


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2007)

http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2007/09/21/shopping-parity.html?ref=rss

*"Book prices won't reflect exchange rate until 2008"* Consumer Yoland Antione in Toronto said she was surprised to see such a significant difference in book prices. One book she was browsing was listed as $12.95 in the U.S. and $18.95 in Canada.
"That's six dollars. That's a lot of money," she said. "[I won't] be paying that."
Ian Donker, the owner of the independent chain Book City, said he's been fielding many complaints about pricing lately.
"It hurts the local bookseller when you have this price disparity printed on the book and all our other costs have stayed the same," he said.
But consumers shouldn't expect book prices to reflect the new exchange rate until the new year, said Tracy Turriff, vice-president of corporate communications for Random House Canada.
"The price changes that we've made now to reflect the current exchange rate will appear on books that are going on sale in early 2008," she said."


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

jroberts said:


> I'm currently looking into buying a car in the U.S. I'd love to buy local, but I'm not willing to pay $10k extra for that convenience or due to some sense of national pride.


You may find this useful... (cutnpaste from elsewhere)
****************************************

http://www.ucanimport.com/ or my friends detailed instructions.....

1. Pick your vehicle - I used ebay, but then contacted the dealer directly. I also used autotrader.com. Avoid private deals no matter how tempting!! Also, to make it worthwhile, I found that the car has to be at least $30,000 CAD. Financing makes it MUCH more complicated - if necessary, I would get a line of credit through the bank and get a car loan AFTER the car is in Canada.

2. Check to see if your vehicle can be imported - most can, but it depends on age and seatbelts. This info is on riv.ca. This website walks you through requirements.

3. Check to see if you will pay duty. Cars built in Canada, US and Mexico are duty free. Japan is 6.1% duty. Check the VIN number - if it starts with a number 1,2,3,4 it is built in N. America. If it starts with J, it is Japanese built. It was a struggle for me to find the duty rates on foreign built cars. I had to phone Customs and Border Services Agency (CBSA). If duties need to be paid, this can hurt the financial transaction of the deal. (Some cars like Honda Accords are built in US and Japan, therefore, pick a US built VIN)

4. I chose not to have the car shipped. Into Canada, it's another $1,000 USD at least and brokers fees may kill you, so I drove mine.

5. Get a recall letter from the American manufacturer. This is critical. Also do a Carfax report - this is well worth the $20.

6. Phone the DMV in the state of which you are purchasing to see 2 things - if an In-Transit permit can be obtained so it can be driven out of the state and secondly, if a car being taken out of state is subject to state sales taxes. California is a bad one - they charge 7.25% state taxes if you are going to drive out of the lot regardless of where it will be registered - I bought my car in Illinois where I didn't have to pay the sales tax. FYI - Montana, Oregon, West Virginia do not have any sales taxes, so a vehicle purchased there is real easy.



BREAK



Do all those steps before making a deal with the seller



7. Buy car. DO NOT wire money. DO NOT pay a deposit with a credit card. If a deposit is required, fedex a cashier's check AFTER the seller fedexes a buyers order or a bill of sale that clearly states the deposit.

8. Get insurance from your Canadian insurance company - make sure you're covered in the states. All I needed was a VIN number and they faxed me the temporary insurance papers.

9. Get Alberta In-Transit permit (good in all of Canada). $25 for 7 days beginning the day you bring the car over the border. You need a copy of the sales receipt for this.

10. Get the US in-transit permit - the dealer hooked me up with this one. $10 in Illinois for 7 days

11. Take a certified cheque with you - the dealer may need to verify with the bank. I faxed a copy ahead of time.

12. When you are at the dealer, you NEED the ORIGINAL certificate of title. My dealer wanted to send it directly to Alberta registry and I had to fight to get it. In the US, proof of ownership is the title. The seller will sign the back of it over to you and you sign as well.

13. You have to fax documentation to US customs 3 days in advance - they have a worksheet that is not on the internet, so I had to phone and they sent it to me. I filled it out and faxed it, and the certificate of title to US customs.

14. Now you have 3 days of sightseeing. I spent an average of $125 hotel/food. Gas was $50 per day.

15. Crossing the border - stop at US customs first - provide the original certificate of title, they check the file, check the VIN on the systems, then physically check the cars VIN to the paperwork - this has to be an exact match.

16. Canada customs - do the normal declaration of goods and tell the agent you are importing the car. Go inside with the bill of sale. They will check the "red book" on the value. I bought mine for $27,000 USD ($29,000 CAD), but the book said $35,000 CAD. They are concerned that I may have paid $5,000 "under the table" HOWEVER, I had a bill of sale from a reputable dealer, I also had the original internet add AND I kept the sales price sticker that was in the window. The Cad customs agent could not argue the price I paid.

17. Fill out Form 1 at customs

18. CAD customs charged me the 6.1% duty, $100 air conditioning fee and GST (GST was applied to the cost of the car in Cad $, the duty and the a/c fee). Pay by credit card.

19. Park car in garage and wait for Customs to mail Form 2 (within 10 days).



This is what I'm waiting to do . . .

20. Take Form 1 and Form 2 to Canadian Tire to get federally inspected - no charge. Make repairs to bring to code - since I did all my research ahead of time, my car needs no repairs.

21. Take Form 1 and Form 2 to mechanic to get provincially inspected.

22. Register car.

23. Wait for Canadian Compliance sticker and put on doorframe.


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## Hamm Guitars (Jan 12, 2007)

Be carefull importing cars, there were allot of cars that have flood damage that hit the market and they have endless issues. No experience, just a 20/20 kind of show I saw a while back.


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## Geek (Jun 5, 2007)

Many dealers in border towns will do all the paperwork for you. Example, the Peace Arch crossing (White Rock, BC) saw over 1,700 cars imported in the last 12 months. Dont you think if it was so bad doing so, people would have stopped?

I manufacture, wheel and deal in parts and this par dollar is a boom. My exports have INCREASED... so I play a very, very small fiddle for those manufacturers not capable (or willing) to adapt. Darwin's law of business I guess :wink:


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## Roidster (Aug 5, 2007)

the dollar will eventually go back to normal

but your all miss the big picture,jump on it while you can


nice guitars for cheap,and dont order them online,then you have to pay
all the duties and taxes,drive down spent some time,buy a guitar throw some
sickers on a case or bring a case with you,then come home,they dont know how long you have owned that guitar,im looking at getting some sub bins
from the states,from music123


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Why are cars that are manufactured in Canada still thousands of dollars more than in the USA?

Eg: 2008 Dodge Charger SXT (made in Windsor)
CDN MSRP: $34,995
USA MSRP: $26,585
Difference: $8,410!!!!!! (30%)

Source: dodge.ca / dodge.com

That is obscene!

Why does a Mexican made Fender retail for hundreds more in Canada vs the USA? (eg: MIM Standard Telecaster: CDN $499, USA $399)

Sorry, but there's a number of industries that take advantage of Canadians and the time honored excuse of "well, the Canadian dollar is weaker!" just doesn't hold water any longer.


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## searchin4signal (Sep 23, 2006)

I also see that having our dollar at par hasn't affected any of the *USED* prices on the *USED* stuff in our own emporium.


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## shad (May 4, 2006)

Okay, about book prices. I was in Chapters the other day and found a book on guitars that was listed at $25.95 US, and $38.95 Can, considering the par value of the dollar I found this annoying and didn't buy it. Now I'm wondering, what if I walked in there and tried to buy it with US funds would they have to sell it to me for $25.95? Anybody know?


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

shad said:


> Okay, about book prices. I was in Chapters the other day and found a book on guitars that was listed at $25.95 US, and $38.95 Can, considering the par value of the dollar I found this annoying and didn't buy it. Now I'm wondering, what if I walked in there and tried to buy it with US funds would they have to sell it to me for $25.95? Anybody know?


You would have to pay the Canadian price. The US price is if sold in the USA.

Actually, as a merchant they can sell it to you at any price they want, whether higher or lower than marked. Obviously if they overcharge they will have a problem getting or keeping customers but the law is the way it is because the alternative of a fixed marked price means it would be illegal to mark it down for a sale at different than marked price!

Besides, who knows if the book store is getting enough of a markup to make a profit on the sale. If they suddenly had to honour the US price they would probably start running at a loss. We'd have great deals - until we had no more book stores!:smile:

Having spent my career in sales distribution of products I suspect that Canadian bookstores are too small to order in sufficient quantity to get the best cost that someone like Amazon.com would get. If you order 10 copies you get one price. Order a thousand you get a better one. Order 10,000 and you get a great one!

That's pretty well the way it works with most everything in stores.

:food-smiley-004:


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## Geek (Jun 5, 2007)

jroberts said:


> It's illegal to charge a price higher than that at which an item is marked. You can charge more than the price printed on the book itself, but you would have to cover that price up, thereby ensuring that the book is no longer marked at that price.


Book stores seem to get away with that. C-stores can't. I was working for 7-11 at the time they had lost some court appeal that nailed their arse to the wall for marking-up preprinted prices.

The manager was some P.O.'d when all I could do was laugh at the news


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## shad (May 4, 2006)

Wild Bill said:


> You would have to pay the Canadian price. The US price is if sold in the USA.
> 
> Actually, as a merchant they can sell it to you at any price they want, whether higher or lower than marked. Obviously if they overcharge they will have a problem getting or keeping customers but the law is the way it is because the alternative of a fixed marked price means it would be illegal to mark it down for a sale at different than marked price!
> 
> ...


Thanks for your comments Bill, I understand where you are coming from on this, but I don't totally agree. 

First of all we are talking about 'Chapters' here and they are not your average small book store. 

Second, if the book is listed at $25.95 US, I don't believe for a second that they are paying any more than 50% of that... probably less, so for argument's sake, if they are paying approx $13.00 Can. and selling it for $38.95 Can. then that seems like price gouging to me, and yes I know that they have overhead and they have tio make a profit, but a 300% gross markup is too much IMO. 

If you are saying that Chapters price is based on the Can$ price, then I disagree there as well. I'm betting that Chapters buys from the US in US dollars. Heck, you and I could go to the US and buy these books at retail and sell them here for a 50% markup without having any buying power at all, like Chapters does.

Also, if they don't have to sell it at the US price, shouldn't they at least be required to cover up that price?.. because it seems to me that by having the US price on the cover they are in fact advertising it at that price.

I don't have your expertise in sales distribution, but this just seems like common sense to me. :food-smiley-004:


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## sysexguy (Mar 5, 2006)

Well, we just adjusted our prices to par.....afaik, other music stores and distributors (not all) are thinkin' (and doing) the same (spoke with a couple of them). I was also speaking with a web consultant who said most of his retail clients have called to make adjustments. We're eating it on all our current inventory.....

so I'll be damned if I pay anything extra when I buy something with what's left in my pocket........need gas, I'm damned, need food, same ...... 

In the meantime, I anticipate that our sales will increase and we'll come out ahead in the long run.

Andy


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## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

sysexguy said:


> Well, we just adjusted our prices to par.....afaik, other music stores and distributors (not all) are thinkin' (and doing) the same (spoke with a couple of them). I was also speaking with a web consultant who said most of his retail clients have called to make adjustments. We're eating it on all our current inventory.....
> 
> so I'll be damned if I pay anything extra when I buy something with what's left in my pocket........need gas, I'm damned, need food, same ......
> 
> ...


Let me try to be your first sale. Do you guys have a web site?


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## Rumble_b (Feb 14, 2006)

LowWatt said:


> Let me try to be your first sale. Do you guys have a web site?


:banana: That's what I was thinking!!!

*Edit* http://www.diffusion-audio.com/store/


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

shad said:


> Thanks for your comments Bill, I understand where you are coming from on this, but I don't totally agree.
> 
> First of all we are talking about 'Chapters' here and they are not your average small book store.
> 
> ...


Well, the problem is that the way business and laws often work they defy common sense! Sometimes the more common sense you have the harder it is to see the real picture.

Every business is different and I've never worked for a book distributor. I can say that to us Canadians Chapters may look like a big chain but compared to what we find in the USA it's just a pimple on their ass!

The entire Canadian market is a bit smaller than that of just one State - California! That's it!

We can't say what's a reasonable profit margin if we've never run such a business. Books are heavy so there's higher shipping costs. They're not all fast movers so you may not turn your stock as often as you'd like.

Different businesses have different needs. Grocery stores need a ferocious margin on perishable foods. They literally rot on the shelf if not bought fast enough. You can't send unsold cabbages back to the farm for a credit.

That being said, it looks to me that we're being ripped off too! I'm just not sure who's responsible.

It's no guarantee that a Chapters company would buy their books directly from a publisher. There may be middle men in between, who buy in larger volumes and then accept smaller orders from all the stores. With many types of products factories want to take orders direct like they'd want a hole in their head! After years of MBA's and other suits running businesses we find that factories (or publishers) want to be fabrication houses and not warehouses. This means they want to take an order for 10,000 pieces of an item, set up a date on the production line to make them, crank 'em out into shipping and fire them out the door! If someone comes back and says they need another 200 they simply tell them NO, and not always politely.

Middlemen may warehouse factory quantities and service all the smaller accounts. They WILL keep stuff in a warehouse! If you fell short by only a few hundred they can help you.

Of course, they need a markup too to be able to provide their service.

So who set up the spread between US and CDN book prices? We can't say for sure that it's the store where we buy them. How much did they have to pay?

Or maybe there's price fixing but it's at the factory level. The papers today are talking about a $2 billion dollar lawsuit being launched against the car companies for deliberately ripping us for an extra $1000 or more on a car that's sold in Canada, and illegally discouraging us from buying in the States by refusing to honour a warranty on a car taken outside the USA.

You have to know the details before you can try to be logical. Logic is only a tool of thinking. You can prove anything as long as you don't know any contradictory facts. The less you know the easier it is to prove something!:smile:

Back in the early 80's I worked for a Canadian electronics distributor. One of our lines was ITT Cannon, who among other things made round, military rated multi-pin connectors. These were and are used in aircraft, factory equipment and you might have seen them used as "snake" connectors on the cable that connects a mixing board at the back of the hall to all the mics and stuff on stage.

Anyhow, to ITT Cannon the Canadian market was piddley to them, at least back then. They did have to service some accounts like Bombardier and such who demanded some local support so they put an office into Markham, filled it with some inventory specific to their local customers and away they went.

Now regular distis like mine had occasional needs for customers. Maybe only a few of one kind at a time, like for somebody making those audio "snakes". ITT Cannon stateside would never have wanted to handle our orders so they set us up with their local direct office.

The problem was that the local office was funded by buying at regular disti cost from the factory for our orders and then marking them up to us, by about 35%!

We sold a few but not many. Customers soon realized that they could buy from a Buffalo disti over the counter for less than I could buy them as a CDN disti.

We were absolutely forbidden to buy from the US factory! Or from a US larger disti, who often could sell to us cheaper than the factory because of his volumes. We bought other products we needed from ITT Canada and that was their lever over us. Break the rules and we lost everything.

It is probably very similar with many other products in Canada that come from foreign sources. We can't assume that it's the end seller who's ripping us off. My Cannon customers might have thought that I was just gouging them but it wasn't true. I simply couldn't give them the price they thought I could.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't tell the stores AND their suppliers to take a hike if we can find a way around them! 

I'm just saying we should be pissed at those who truly deserve it. Especially with a local music store who watches customers come in to try out a guitar and then after they've done their research they buy it across the border. Then when the store goes out of business they bitch about not having a local source for strings and picks!:smile:

Just my .02

:food-smiley-004:


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## sysexguy (Mar 5, 2006)

Wild Bill, in our business (guitars and recording equipment), one month in California is a year in Canada (in terms of sales volume). Actually, recording equipment might be more like 50:1

Some costs of doing business are more expensive (transport, protectionist services hiding from "free trade", gouging from better protected industries who's services we require), some are cheaper (liability insurance, rent.....a buddy who reps in NY has $600+ a month in parking tickets...that's standard for a sales rep in Manhattan). 

Rumble_b, lowatt, thanks for the support we're open 24/7:smile: (online anyway).....OK, need dinner and then I fix the Eyeland straps.

I need to take a break, been wailin' on the trio of Elmwoods that just arrived:rockon2:

Andy


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Automakers hit with $2B suit
Canadian car prices artificially high: consumers

Thu Sep 27 2007

By David Friend
TORONTO -- Several automakers have been slapped with a $2-billion class action lawsuit that claims the industry conspired to artificially maintain car prices in Canada and inhibited cross-border vehicle shopping fuelled by a rising loonie.

The suit was filed with the Ontario Superior Court by Toronto-based law firm Juroviesky and Ricci on behalf of four Toronto residents who bought or leased cars between August 2005 and August 2007.

The plaintiffs say they forked out more money for cars in Canada than they would have for similar or identical models in the United States and are seeking $2 billion in general damages as well as $100 million in punitive damages.

Named in the lawsuit are the Canadian and U.S. divisions of General Motors (NYSE:GM), Honda, Nissan and Chrysler.

"We believe that we have uncovered a conspiracy that has been designed and choreographed by the automobile manufacturers to artificially enhance the price of cars in Canada to Canadian consumers," Henry Juroviesky, the firm's managing partner, said in a telephone interview.

Representatives of the auto dealers and some of the carmakers declined to comment on the lawsuit. However, a spokesman for GM Canada said the company prices its cars and trucks in part after observing what rival automakers do in a competitive marketplace.

As the loonie hovers around parity with the U.S. dollar, many Canadian consumers have questioned why there's such a big price difference between the two countries on many ordinary goods imported from the U.S. -- everything ranging from guitars and DVD players to flat-screen TVs, cars, trucks and baby products.

In Wednesday's lawsuit, the plaintiffs allege that the automakers worked together to minimize cross-border competition and limit the number of new cars that crossed the border. As well, the lawsuit alleges that the companies breached both the Competition Act and the Consumer Protection Act in Canada.

"Cars on an absolute basis are just cheaper in the United States and one has to wonder why. When you go and try to exercise that reasonably available efficient alternative, you're stopped," Juroviesky said.

"Tinkering has been done, we allege, with the market forces that don't allow a downward adjustment to Canadian auto prices of an efficient alternative supply."

Included in the allegations are claims that the automakers agreed not to honour warranties for vehicles purchased across the border, forcing Canadian consumers who wanted a manufacturer's warranty to pay 25 to 35 per cent more on average for a vehicle in Canada.

"It would be expected under natural laws of competition that if not for the defendants' conspiracy to artificially maintain their domestic prices in the U.S. at historical levels, the prices of U.S. domestic goods would have fallen to approximate the price levels of the readily available Canadian alternative," the suit said.

None of the allegations have been proven in court and the suit has yet to be certified officially as a class action by a judge.

-- The Canadian Press 

Big difference
A sample of current manufacturer suggested retail prices for automobiles in both the United States and Canada:

* Honda Accord Sedan 2008
Canada: C$25,090
U.S.: US$20,360

* Honda Odyssey 2008
Canada: C$33,300
U.S.: US$25,645

* Cadillac Escalade EXT
Canada: C$71,730
U.S.: US$55,045

* Chevy Monte Carlo
Canada: C$25,230
U.S.: US$21,700

* Nissan Maxima 3.5 SE
Canada: C$36,998
U.S.: US$28,130

-- The Canadian Press


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> * Chevy Monte Carlo
> Canada: C$25,230
> U.S.: US$21,700


And I believe this one is made in Oshawa.


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## Robboman (Oct 14, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man said:


> Automakers hit with $2B suit
> Canadian car prices artificially high: consumers


DAMN! That's interesting, 'specially because I just bought a brand new car in Aug. I want some of that 2B pie!


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## shad (May 4, 2006)

Quote: (Wild Bill)
I'm just saying we should be pissed at those who truly deserve it. Especially with a local music store who watches customers come in to try out a guitar and then after they've done their research they buy it across the border. Then when the store goes out of business they bitch about not having a local source for strings and picks!:smile:

Just my .02

:food-smiley-004:[/QUOTE]

I totally agree Wild Bill, I can't think of any another type of business that would face that particular problem...glad I'm not in the music store business. 

As far as the books go, I agree with what you're saying, but I also think that the booksellers are enjoying a windfall profit right now because they are selling the book for the same price as they did when we had a 66 cent dollar, even though it's at par now.

Cheers:food-smiley-004:


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## Geek (Jun 5, 2007)

> ...on behalf of four Toronto residents who bought or leased cars between August 2005 and August 2007.


What's sad is only FOUR people stood up


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

Some analysts are saying the high dollar will continue well into 2008.


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## LowWatt (Jun 27, 2007)

Well I was already headed to NYC to see Sharon Jones play at the Apollo next week. For those that don't know her, she is up there with Mavis Staples for greatest female soul singers today (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5oWJEJBmxE). And I think her band the Dap Kings would give the JBs a run for their money if they had the chance.

Now I'm thinking, I should pick up a toy or two to bring back. I still support my CDN businesses, but this is a good chance to grab something I never see in the stores here hopefully.

Apparently since I will be there over 48 hours, I can bring back up to $400 in goods duty free. Any recommendations?


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

Folks, FWIW, the whole thing starts with the "go to market" theory and attitude. It's hard to resist going over the border paying less but in the long run, it will affect you one way or the other. One example I could use is if you are in the market to buy an appliance. Most appliance manufacturers have to factor in their price the costs of supporting their products for that particular country; if your fridge breaks down, someone has to be trained to fix it. Many "someones" are needed throughout a country so that someone locally has to be availaible to fix it so that you don't have to wait too long. So training is a big cost factor. Parts have to be available "just in case" something happens. Other factors like this come in to play when planning to go to market with a product and establishing how much a customer should pay for the item.

Nowadays, factor in the internet business. Most appliance manufacturers will tell you that if you buy one of their appliances in an other country that it will void the manufacturers warranty unless you buy an international warranty (if available). It's in a way a protection for the rest rest of us who purchased the appliance locally that techs and parts will be there fairly quickly when we need it.

Books, guitars and other such items do not need that same protection but it remains that a similar "go to market" attitude prevails and that a printer (press operator) here in Canada might not be able to compete when everyone buys books from the US over the internet and will eventually have to close its doors and get on the unemployment lines. US press operators (and their employers) simply have to factor in the extra demand and may the biggest win.

I am not in agreement with price gouging. (sp?) There are crooks everywhere and I believe that we call them opportunists or capitalists. But when I read and hear people talking about taking opportunities of lower prices abroad, I can't help feeling a deep sadness at the sight of such short sightedness.

I strongly feel that we need leaders, whether in political arenas or on forums such as this to make people realize that we need to get away from such defeitist(sp?) attitudes. Let's stop being so greedy and let's invest in our people. Our people will also spend locally and we're all going to benefit from this in the long run.

Particularly to this site, I love to read about people making thier own guitars and basses (and amps). The more we make, the better we become at it and better off we eventually will be in competing markets. Sysexguy here on this site and I'm sure other businesses throughout Canada are willing to match US prices for a much lesser profit, jump on that opportunity. If you are looking for a book and that the dealer wants to sell it to you at the "US" inflated price, shop around in Canada before buying from the US. Any and all revenues that stays here in Canada helps all of us here in Canada in the long run. What's a few extra bucks to pay for the economic health of you and your neighbours?

:banana:


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

Mahogany Martin said:


> Folks, FWIW, the whole thing starts with the "go to market" theory and attitude. It's hard to resist going over the border paying less but in the long run, it will affect you one way or the other. One example I could use is if you are in the market to buy an appliance. Most appliance manufacturers have to factor in their price the costs of supporting their products for that particular country; if your fridge breaks down, someone has to be trained to fix it. Many "someones" are needed throughout a country so that someone locally has to be availaible to fix it so that you don't have to wait too long. So training is a big cost factor. Parts have to be available "just in case" something happens. Other factors like this come in to play when planning to go to market with a product and establishing how much a customer should pay for the item.
> 
> Nowadays, factor in the internet business. Most appliance manufacturers will tell you that if you buy one of their appliances in an other country that it will void the manufacturers warranty unless you buy an international warranty (if available). It's in a way a protection for the rest rest of us who purchased the appliance locally that techs and parts will be there fairly quickly when we need it.
> 
> ...


So, you're saying I should buy my appliances at Home Depot Canada instead of Home Depot in the USA why now? Same company, same products, same large scale buying/selling power. Fail to see the difference. 

Same goes for cars. The dealer network is independent - therefore the overhead of service and sales is no difference between the USA and Canadian markets. Some of these things are manufactured here but sold for thousands of dollars cheaper in the USA. 

And yeah, of course companies will tell you they'll void the warranty if you buy in the USA. What better way to charge more for something than building an economic fence around a market? "Pay more for this appliance or else we won't back it".

Frankly, if I can buy an American Vintage 52 Reissue Telecaster for $1350 only 2 hours away versus $1850 at L&M, I think that steps beyond "helping out the little guy". If Fender raises their wholesale cost to the Canadian retailer such that the retailer can't compete with the USA market without taking a loss then who is really to blame? Is it the consumer or is it the manufacturer? I say it's the manufacturer who is screwing the merchants - not the customer.


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## Mahogany Martin (Mar 2, 2006)

Powdered Toast Man, I hear you nice and clear. You're echoing whats been discussed so far. I don't entirely agree with the buying from Home Depot in the US as opposed to one in Canada. 2 Things: first, the revenue goes to another country. Second, a company that let's say produces a hundred different models of (let's say) fridges could not make all of the models available to all countries. Canada is too small of a country in terms of population to even be profitable for all models considering the support that needs to take place after sales.

So if a model is available in both countries, you by buying it is the US and bringing it home in Canada might at some point require support and if many people do the same thing, then there may not be enough resourses (whether technical or parts) to support everyone in a timely manner. Nobody is after you to screw you. It's about inventory management and other business models.

I certainly don't have all the answers but somehow it affects me when I read/see/hear of people jumping so quickly at buying something abroad for the sake of saving some money. I don't blame anybody, who does not want to save money? But what I'm saying is that this abroad/saving culture that started a long time ago and that seem to have gotten out of hand has and will hurt us in the long run.

There's lot of resourses and wonderful talented people here in Canada and I can only hope that we can turn this around SOMEHOW. There are new young (and old) people who pick up guitar every year and the culture that they look up to is to buy an expansive Fender, Gibson, PRS etc. It would be great to see the new kids drooling over guitars that are made right here in Canada whether because they love the look/feel/sound etc or because they saw their favorite players endorsing one.


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## Powdered Toast Man (Apr 6, 2006)

I hear you on buying MADE in Canada stuff - that is something I will do over a similar foreign made anything.

BTW, those who have said that the governments should do something - they did - years ago. I recall that cross-border shopping was becoming something of an irritation to the business community after free trade really started going into effect and duties came down or stopped altogether. What did the government do? They started charging GST at the border for goods purchased in the USA. Then, a few years later, most of the provinces followed suit and started charging their own PST at the border. THEN, when online sales became an issue, the governments started charging sales tax on stuff you import from the USA - whether it's used or through private sale or whatever. How many times have you bought something off ebay and then had the postman show up with not only your package, but a tax bill?

I know that in Winnipeg - where we have a long tradition of cross border shopping (the entire economy of Grand Forks ND relies on our money) - the tax thing did effectively cool the enthusiasm for going south to shop. Then the dollar tanked to around $0.60 on the US dollar and cross border shopping became a non-issue.

Funny, because one of the major security recommendations handed down from the Canadian Senate this year was that the border guards need to stop collecting sales tax. They've become "glorified tax collectors" and seem more concerned about someone who bought one too many bottles of liquor at the duty free shop than they are about national security risks. The senate study also found that the revenue the gov't collects from the border is a drop in the bucket when we're talking about overall tax revenues.


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## Robert1950 (Jan 21, 2006)

I checked the prices on a Fender Aerodyne Strat. $850 at L&M, $700 at MF in the US. Even if it is old stock, I still can't see justification in that much price difference.


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## J S Moore (Feb 18, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> I checked the prices on a Fender Aerodyne Strat. $850 at L&M, $700 at MF in the US. Even if it is old stock, I still can't see justification in that much price difference.


That may well be a little high. But you have to take into consideration what it costs to bring a product across the border. As individuals we can duck those costs some of the time on smaller buys, but a business is totally in the open and gets charged fees that most individuals have never heard of. Plus we have to factor in the higher cost of doing business in Canada. Higher payroll taxes, OHIP, higher minimum wage, CPP ( I could go on and on) all get factored into the retail cost of a product or service. As well we are a smaller market which means a higher wholesale price for some products.

In order to see prices at par, and I mean truly at par where a Canadian business will make the same % margin as a US business at the same price level, our social programs and tax structure would need to change. And our beloved politicians will never do that.


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## snoglobe (Jun 20, 2007)

While I understand the whole argument about how we are protecting Canadian industries, jobs, etc., the large Canadian industries would show little regard to shutting their plants here and moving them to the States or Mexico if economically feasible. There's a reason why everything under the sun is being manufactured in whole or in part in China, then finished here. Same reason Fender has production facilities in Mexico.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I consider myself an industry unto myself. I am responsible for me and mine. If I can get a better deal by shopping around I will. If I can get a better deal by shopping south of the border, I will. Please don't begin to tell me how I should spend my hard-earned money. I will spend it where I choose, and where it does the most good for my family.

Business can do what it always does, adapt and survive, or run to government for a hand-out to prop up an outdated economic model. Either way, the world will not end, the sky will not fall, and I will have more money left over in my pocket to spend as I see fit.

No animals were harmed in the making of this rant.


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## Wild Bill (May 3, 2006)

snoglobe said:


> While I understand the whole argument about how we are protecting Canadian industries, jobs, etc., the large Canadian industries would show little regard to shutting their plants here and moving them to the States or Mexico if economically feasible. There's a reason why everything under the sun is being manufactured in whole or in part in China, then finished here. Same reason Fender has production facilities in Mexico.
> 
> What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I consider myself an industry unto myself. I am responsible for me and mine. If I can get a better deal by shopping around I will. If I can get a better deal by shopping south of the border, I will. Please don't begin to tell me how I should spend my hard-earned money. I will spend it where I choose, and where it does the most good for my family.
> 
> ...


I sincerely hope for your sake that you do continue to have more money in your pocket!

There's a lot of guys here that lost their jobs when their factory was moved to China. Or just couldn't compete and went under.

We can't all work in the public sector and have a strong economy by giving each other courses and mailing letters to each other. Initially money comes from primary industries and every other job revolves around money that primary industries generated.

I'm not saying you're totally wrong but it might be a mistake to take being insulated from any repercussions for granted.

When I was a teenager the local steel mills all hired tons of university students for summer jobs, paying them big steelworker bucks. That ended years ago. Now I see guys in McMaster jackets working at Wendy's.

Not everybody's situation is the same. If we all take an attitude of "I'm all right Jack so who cares!" it doesn't bode well for the country's future.

Then again, perhaps that's always been the Canadian way...

:food-smiley-004:


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## Geek (Jun 5, 2007)

Hiya Bill,



Wild Bill said:


> If we all take an attitude of "I'm all right Jack so who cares!"....


I read many years ago (National Post, IIRC), that was the Canadian mantra of the 90's. Personally, I have yet to meet a person offline that *doesn't* think that way :-\


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## Beatles (Feb 7, 2006)

Anyone had a look lately at the shipping charges from a US Ebay seller? IMO they seem to be higher lately as a result of the strong CDN dollar.


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## Tybone (Feb 12, 2006)

Robert1950 said:


> Some analysts are saying the high dollar will continue well into 2008.


I suspect when the full cost of the current US wars comes home to roost we will see a low greenback for a while. This, of course, opens the door for European dominance.

However, in the mean time, it might be nice to get some cheap strings and shit. And, after the inventories go down and you place a new order on the newly valued buck, you best lower your prices. Some of these little towns in the middle of nowhere in the midwest some where still get cheaper prices we do in large cities. That has got to stop.


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## Geek (Jun 5, 2007)

Beatles said:


> Anyone had a look lately at the shipping charges from a US Ebay seller? IMO they seem to be higher lately as a result of the strong CDN dollar.


Yes, they seem to be. Except from the regular parts suppliers I buy from, but they are exceptional guys.

I had to bump up my auctions a twonie, since the exchange used to pay for the packaging, now it doesn't. PayPal's currency exchange rates also shot up :frown:


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